# 2359glenn | studio



## Silent One

I created this thread as a place to foster the exchange of our audio pursuits with 2359glenn - Member of the Trade, as well as between each other. Some of us may already have or seek one of his custom amp builds, adapters or other audio solutions. And this is a place where we can discuss our activities..._enjoy!_
   
  I first met Glenn when I sourced a pair of 6SN7>6DE7 adapters to place in my _Woo Audio WA 6 Special Edition _amp. Shortly thereafter, he asked if I'd like to audition other tubes and adapters in return for feedback. This was the start of a very satisfying relationship with the designer. And I learned a lot as he continued to solve problems or suggest mods for head-fier's with a wide variety of amps.
   
  After sourcing tubes and adapters from Glenn for a year and a half, last month I decided I would buy my first amp from him in August. But then he released a 6AS7 based OTL amp. When I saw examples purchased by Xcalibur255 and Clayton SF, it was too much, I had to have one!
   
  A couple of weeks in now, sitting on about 80 hours, there's new adventure inside the listening room. Will post new pix Fri/Sat. 
   
   
_Learning to listen and love_..._ all over again,_
   
  - Silent One
   
   
  I am currently using a different rectifier and drive tube than shown in the pix below. The amp accepts rectifiers 3DG4-5AU4-5V3. This morning I have the General Electric 3DG4 rectifier, Tung-Sol 5998 & Tung-Sol BGRP 6SN7GT installed. The amp is still working its wonder during break-in. Will report back with impressions soon.


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## rosgr63

Thanks for the thread SO.
  Glenn's work is first class that goes hand in hand with an excellent and trustworthy person.
  Keep up the good work Glenn.


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## Lurkumaural

I'll contribute my appreciation. I don't own one of his amps, but I was in disbelief when I heard the HD 650 on Clayton'g rig, as photographed above at the local meet. You hear about headphone and amp pairings, and to be honest I thought the idea of synergy meant taking a sound that you know and adjusting it... this pairing changed what I knew of the HD 650. I haven't yet heard this headphone out of a high-$$ amp, but after what I heard at the meet, I'm a lot less curious.


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## Silent One

Quote: 





lurkumaural said:


> I'll contribute my appreciation. I don't own one of his amps, but I was in disbelief when I heard the HD 650 on Clayton'g rig, as photographed above at the local meet. You hear about headphone and amp pairings, and to be honest I thought the idea of synergy meant taking a sound that you know and adjusting it... this pairing changed what I knew of the HD 650. I haven't yet heard this headphone out of a high-$$ amp, but after what I heard at the meet, I'm a lot less curious.


 


  Thanks, Lurkumaural. The optimum pairing is by no means an accident. When it came time to voice the amp during the build, the HD650's were the only headphones Glenn had on hand, I am told.


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## Silent One

Just added Black Dayton Audio Spikes - 1-1/2"


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## grokit

She's looking good, if a little lonely on that maple platform!
   
  Have you come up with a name for her (assuming female gender of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) yet?
  Glen made me a couple of 6F8G > 6SN7 adapters a while back, another completely positive experience weighing in


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## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> She's looking good, if a little lonely on that maple platform!
> 
> Have you come up with a name for her (assuming female gender of course
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks. Yeah, I noticed the same thing. Once the Woo cleared out, I found myself looking around the listening room. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  No name yet. I did make a suggestion to Glenn that he name one or more of his configs so we can chat better. I'm sure he has other things on his mind, like sourcing...


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## john57




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## Silent One

It's official - john57 has delivered the thread's first unboxing!


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## kchew

I may not have one of Glenn's amps, but I do have his 596 rectifier adaptor. Thanks to him I can enjoy one of the best sounding and unique looking rectifiers for my amp. Cheers Glenn, and thanks for everything.


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## rosgr63

Beautiful looking amps!


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## Xcalibur255

You just had to go and post that picture.  Now everybody knows how often I dust my desk.


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## Silent One

Audio interrupted!
   
  I was very much looking forward to my listening session overnight to evaluate "spiking" my amp. It was not to be. I'm feeling under the weather with mild flu like symptoms; congested. Everything sounds muffled... even TV! I'm hoping my head and my ears will return to normal by Tuesday...
   
  Ideally, I'd like to move up to a Maple block 4" thick. And possibly bigger brass footers like Mapleshade has. The current speaker spikes shown in the pix above are the ones used at RMAF the last two years by Mach2music (Mac mini music server) and some other vendors. 
   
  The pursuit of bigger Maple and bigger brass could change, however. On Tuesday, the 6AS7 OTL amp is getting a new dance partner - Logictech Squeezebox Touch. The current Mac mini music server is using VIABLUE Tri-Absorbers. Since I'll be decommissioning the Mac, I may throw the Tri-Absorbers underneath the OTL amp. Obtain a refund for the spikes and send the Maple block down the hall for kitchen duty. 
   
  To be clear, I'm not cheap I'm broke... there's a difference!


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## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You just had to go and post that picture.  Now everybody knows how often I dust my desk.


 


  Amazing how your amp blends in with the current theme on your audio rack.


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## Xcalibur255

No rack, just the corner of the computer desk.  This place isn't big enough for racks, though I will have to figure out something for the next amp.  That thing will probably weigh twice what this one does with all the chokes and output trannies, it might break the glass.


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## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'll be decommissioning the Mac


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## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


>


 

 Say it ain't so, Silent One! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yup, we're going "commercial" with the SB Touch. I simply wanted something new to go along with the new amp. But I'm not gaining anything, really. Since I'm looking for cash this weekend, I should return it unopened for a refund.
   
  The Mac is already tweaked and isolated. The PC already has a Linux network music server/client setup (MPD/GMPC). I have 'til Tuesday to rethink things. Currently, I'm selling a few things to either return the amp for Glenn to mod for the 5998 tubes; buy new tubes for the amp; buy a Pilot Falcon Metal soft fine nib fountain pen.
   
  If I weren't congested and able to enjoy the music this weekend, I'd go with the mod on Monday without a doubt!


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## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> No rack, just the corner of the computer desk.  This place isn't big enough for racks, though I will have to figure out something for the next amp.  That thing will probably weigh twice what this one does with all the chokes and output trannies, it might break the glass.


 


  It will break the glass! Leaving us with disturbing images in our minds even if we never see evidence of the crash... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _the horror. _I know you'll arrive at something both stylish and functional.


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## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It will break the glass! Leaving us with disturbing images in our minds even if we never see evidence of the crash...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I'll likely arrive at the cheapest piece of furniture I can find that is the proper height and has a thick enough top board.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I would like to "go nice" in all things, but without the means I like to think I put the bulk of the money in the right places and cut corners where it matters the least.  The amp will look that much nicer atop something non-decorative anyway, by way of contrast.


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## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'll likely arrive at the cheapest piece of furniture I can find that is the proper height and has a thick enough top board.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 This too, is my view. Usually, when I cast my wary eye on something decorative, I study to see if the creator had the wisdom to leave something out. Can't wait to see your ensemble... I know I'm not the only one. Without peeking behind the curtains (we wouldn't dare to such a thing to you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), can you project a time it's likely to be in your listening room?


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## Xcalibur255

We're deliberately taking our time right now.  Probably a couple of months still, but no set date really.


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## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> We're deliberately taking our time right now.  Probably a couple of months still, but no set date really.


 


  The next couple of months inside my listening room is crucial - I want to upgrade. Honestly, what's greed got to do with it? _Don't answer that! _Anyway, I remain a bit hesitant over the expense of the "X" mod, knowing full well I want another build - 2359glenn spec! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That appx $175 could wisely go to the new build, while I raise funds through May. Could I really go without Glass for a couple of months? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I need to review some of Glenn's notes on possible builds for my recently "reported missing" wallet.


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## hodgjy

So, how does one go about acquiring one of 2359Glenn's creations?  Also, does Glenn to repairs and hotrodding to existing amps?  Like, say, fix and hotrod a sick WA3?


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## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The next couple of months inside my listening room is crucial - I want to upgrade. Honestly, what's greed got to do with it? _Don't answer that! _Anyway, I remain a bit hesitant over the expense of the "X" mod, knowing full well I want another build - 2359glenn spec!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well, based on what you told me your priorities for the result are, I do think it would be worth it.  The improvement was more than just subtle, I was honestly quite surprised by it.  Or look at it this way...... I spent the same amount of money and honestly had no idea what to expect when I did since I was the first.  It's a shame the 5998 gets used in so many 6080 circuits and never sees its potential because it is starved of plate current.  It's really a superior tube to the 6AS7 and 6080 if you ask me, more than many folks know.


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## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> So, how does one go about acquiring one of 2359Glenn's creations?  Also, does Glenn to repairs and hotrodding to existing amps?  Like, say, fix and hotrod a sick WA3?


 


  Just shoot him a PM.  Glenn has helped a number of people on the forum with their amps in the past, including at least one Woo owner.


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## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> So, how does one go about acquiring one of 2359Glenn's creations?  Also, does Glenn to repairs and hotrodding to existing amps?  Like, say, fix and hotrod a sick WA3?


 







  I'm trying to foster a place for the very questions you asked. A virtual cafe, if you would... come on by and talk to Glenn.


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## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Well, based on what you told me your priorities for the result are, I do think it would be worth it.  The improvement was more than just subtle, I was honestly quite surprised by it.  Or look at it this way...... I spent the same amount of money and honestly had no idea what to expect when I did since I was the first.  It's a shame the 5998 gets used in so many 6080 circuits and never sees its potential because it is starved of plate current.  It's really a superior tube to the 6AS7 and 6080 if you ask me, more than many folks know.


 

  
  Absolutely! I think your creative thinking paid off BIG time! What I'm suggesting is upgrading to a 2A3 based amp now as opposed to investing in an amp that will be moved right away. Hope that lends a bit more clarity. if I'm unable to make the move now and upgrade, I'll do the mod now instead...


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## Myxomatosis

I don't have any amp made by Glenn, but I bought a pair of tube adapters some time ago. Great work, very happy with my purchase


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## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Absolutely! I think your creative thinking paid off BIG time! What I'm suggesting is upgrading to a 2A3 based amp now as opposed to investing in an amp that will be moved right away. Hope that lends a bit more clarity. if I'm unable to make the move now and upgrade, I'll do the mod now instead...


 

 You probably already know this, but my 45 amp project is also a 2A3 amp.  It will be mode switchable, no compromise on the operating point of either tube. 
   
  My interest is primarily in the 45, it is considered the superior tube, but it is nice to have the high power option there.  Honestly, though, a 45 is good for 1.6W even at its more modest 250V plate voltage.  It's a pretty crazy world where that isn't considered enough power for a headphone now.  I suppose the HE6 would certainly benefit from the 3.5W of a 2A3 tube, but my target is LCD-2/3 personally which I'm sure will sound good with either tube.


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## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You probably already know this, but my 45 amp project is also a 2A3 amp.  It will be mode switchable, no compromise on the operating point of either tube.
> 
> My interest is primarily in the 45, it is considered the superior tube, but it is nice to have the high power option there.  Honestly, though, a 45 is good for 1.6W even at its more modest 250V plate voltage.  It's a pretty crazy world where that isn't considered enough power for a headphone now.  I suppose the HE6 would certainly benefit from the 3.5W of a 2A3 tube, but my target is LCD-2/3 personally which I'm sure will sound good with either tube.


 

 I like the path you're on! Funny how headphone design has turned listening on its ear! Prices... objectives... performance. Although I understand the Free Market, Adam Smith and Retail Electronics, I still think some pricing in the industry is just ludicrous! This type of thing normally gets reigned in with sanity, competition and the economy. But the industry is riding a wave of growth and prosperity in personal listening and head-fi experiences.
   
  I'm slowly approaching 100 hours on the OTL and already growing restless. I wanna make a move while the amp is till new, still young and still fresh. _I got eyes on the 2A3... slow walkin' it down like a Louisiana Bloodhound!_


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## john57

As for me I still have options that I can explore with my current amp to increase the range of tubes that it can handle and keep my costs low. I am not restless. I am more of an explorer and I can hear more things in music that I have not heard 30 years or more with the same pieces. The path for enlightenment and discovery is still ongoing process for me.


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## sarals

This has been a wonderful thread!
   
  I heard 2359glenn's OTL amp at the meet, as well - and I absolutely fell in love with it!  It was lovingly built, and it sounded so.  SO, I am jealous - seriously!  I really like the setup you have, and I think, if only for aesthetics, that maple block should remain where it is!  You know us, the fairer sex, always thinking about looks...
   
  I hope your cold is better  now I have one.  No listening for me right now.
   
  Hey, give us a report on that Squeezebox Touch when you get it integrated....


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## Silent One

Quote: 





sarals said:


> This has been a wonderful thread!
> 
> I heard 2359glenn's OTL amp at the meet, as well - and I absolutely fell in love with it!  It was lovingly built, and it sounded so.  SO, I am jealous - seriously!  I really like the setup you have, and I think, if only for aesthetics, that maple block should remain where it is!  You know us, the fairer sex, always thinking about looks...
> 
> ...


 

 It's great seeing you here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank you for the kind words. I emerged this morning feeling miles ahead. Not completely out of the wood, but 75% of my hearing has returned and I'm anxious to get back into the listening room. 
   
  Tonight's goal is to get some early impressions on the footers. Actually, I'm going to listen to the OTL amp with three versions - stock footers, spikes and Tri-Absorbers. I'll entertain listening to only a handful of tracks, paying attention to 30 second samples. Then, over the course of the next 10 days, I'll evaluate each footer for about three days at length, get a feel for which resonant signature from the footer I prefer with the OTL amp. 
   
  Unless something has gone horribly wrong, I don't expect the differences to be large. But the footers will stand out from each other... what will I want to hear? Just 'neaked in a three minute preview with the spikes! Still have business to finish up for the day. But in that three minutes, I heard...
   
  The middle blown w-i-d-e open. Ok, maybe not like a Drop-top convertible but maybe T-tops removed? The midrange - vocals and instruments - more emphasized. The Bass is still hitting, same tone and likely the same volume but since the middle is now more emphasized, it may appear there is less Bass but that's not the case. The middle has simply become more present. 
   
  This is with the D7000. I'll also be gathering footer impressions with the HD600 and K702 (Thanks, shipsupt!). I'm one of those who absolutely loves the Denon D7000, Sub Bass, slightly recessed mids and all! There are some, however, that fear these cans. Well, you may now come out from hiding. The spikes are about tuning and may help tweak the signature you're getting from your current cans. The OTL sounds like it has a different headphone plugged in.
   
  Although details remain, I need to confirm throughout the week if the clarity of those details remain after being emphasized (overly?) with the new presentation the spikes return. All of this was immediately apparent in the first few bars of the music, no extra effort listening was required. Who knew?! Wish I could stay with it, but responsibilities await.
   
  Let's see what I find tonight with the custom built 2359glenn spec OTL amp.




   
  Post Script: The Squeezebox Touch arrived this morning - had no time to unbox, look or even kick the box! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Lastly, your avatar is just flat out awesome!


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## grokit

Sounds like great results, especially with those headphones SO -- fine tuning at its finest!


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## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Sounds like great results, especially with those headphones SO -- fine tuning at its finest!


 







 That's great! I feel like stopping everything to join them inside the listening room. I am just as excited!


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## Xcalibur255

Been pondering some kind of isolation feet myself.  The PC introduces noticeable vibration into the desk.


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## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Been pondering some kind of isolation feet myself.  The PC introduces noticeable vibration into the desk.


 


  If possible, I'd be looking to isolate all three components... Front-end (PC), DAC, Amp.


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## hodgjy

Yes, please do post your findings. I was always under the impression that isolation feet and wood blocks only mattered for loudspeaker setups because the sound waves and vibrations from the speakers can be picked up by the amp, causing subtle changes in the sound. If you find something, I may get a bambo block to put under my Trafomatic.


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## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Yes, please do post your findings. I was always under the impression that isolation feet and wood blocks only mattered for loudspeaker setups because the sound waves and vibrations from the speakers can be picked up by the amp, causing subtle changes in the sound. If you find something, I may get a bambo block to put under my Trafomatic.


 


  I finally dug in past midnight... still gathering initial impressions from six configurations. Will continue Friday night and put some shape to it all later on Saturday.


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## Silent One

*Footer Fact Findings-*




   
  So, what did I find by replacing the amp's stocking feet with Spikes and VIABLUE Tri-Absorbers? And even going so far as to have the little one lying on its belly sans footers?? Absolutely nothing..._ Next!_
   
  C'mon people, stay with me! I found ALL kinds of stuff!!! Let's get to the dirt, shall we? Everything... and I do mean "Everything" matters! I set out with a simple mission - throw spikes under the amp and hear what it sounds like. That was the easy part._ In fact, changing the footers out for spikes was done with the speed of a NASCAR Pit Crew... fast!_ But, upon playback, I quickly realized the amount of variables and potential outcomes was staggering.
   
  I could reach page 100 in this thread solely discussing resonant properties of gear, materials, isolation and other variables presented while leaving something behind on the table. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But it's not that serious or I won't let it at 0200 hours on a fine Sunday morning. I'll merely highlight a few different configs and will even give my recommendation first instead of last. And that's play with your system - audio can be BIG fun! But I won't recommend this footer over that spike and so on because everyone and every system has a different reality. What plays well pre or post upgrade in your system may not stay that way. And then blame Silent One?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Uh-oh! We're trying to share info not shove info...
   
  Background info on the system: 2010 Mac mini - Internal Solid State Drive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




; 8GB RAM; Amarra (Full) in Playlist mode... wait, read the Profile! On with the show. Observations:
   
  During testing, I found myself short of Tri-Absorbers. This is because the Mac sits on "Tri's" as well as the DAC. So, when I sought findings for the "Tri's" underneath the amp, this left the Mac with no vibration isolation feet. I placed the spikes under the Mac but the results were not fully realized. This is because vibrations are draining down onto the desk which itself is not isolated and made from cheap/poor material. And subject to ground vibrations. But this arrangement shows promise for Tri-Absorbers under both the amp and Mac. Or another Maple block for the Mac to drain its vibrations.
   
*OTL amp             Mac mini*
*Stock footers      Tri-Absorbers* > Most detailed; air; decay; clarity. Smaller more intimate sound stage. Slightly darker presentation but good. 
   
*Spikes                Tri-Absorbers* > Bigger-Wider-Deeper, like having new headphone! Emphasized Mids; Great balance; Speaker-like; Slightly veiled; Slightly sibilant.
   
*Spikes/Discs       Tri-Absorbers* > Same as above except discs under the pointed tips reigned in sound stage slightly.
   
*Tri-Absorbers     Spikes*          > This returned similar presentation as the top but slightly larger sound stage and more open Mids; less dark.
   
  Summary:
   
  The Spikes underneath the amp yielded the biggest surprise... who knew?! What I learned from this exercise is that it is one of "tuning." I can take each of the results above and use them as a starting point and fine-tune my system's signature. I also learned that different spikes, different size and material of spikes will all return a different presentation. I'm currently using a 2" thick block of Maple. Switching to 4" will change things up too. 
   
  Rather than go out and spend myself silly, I'm interested in finding out what I have - what are the resonant properties of the gear already here before spending money on other tweaks. System assessments can prove valuable. After all, how do you know how much seasoning your system needs if any, unless you taste taste taste! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I left a lot on the table regarding this subject. But that's the beauty of discussions, where you'll have a chance to hold my own feet (footers?) to the fire!


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## rosgr63

You might find this info of interest:
   
  http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/8214706-review-aktyna-aris-the-ultimate-decoupling-feet-


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## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You might find this info of interest:
> 
> http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/8214706-review-aktyna-aris-the-ultimate-decoupling-feet-


 


  Thanks, I'm headed over there now... while I await sunrise and breakfast! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have you picked up some? How was your experience?


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## ckunstadt

>


 

 Is that blue glowy thing under the maple block an external HD? cuz if it is... you might want to move or isolate that.  ?
  It's probably something else but I just got a 1TB bus-powered firewire external drive and I am surprised with how much it... wiggles.


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## Silent One

With an estimated 113 hours on the ODO, it's been fun getting to know the _Silver Hawk_ (2359glenn-spec 6AS7 OTL amp) while putting it through its paces. To date, it's known different tube compliments, different headphones and different footer options:
   
  3DG4    General Electric
    5V3    General Electric
    5V3    Dumont
   
  5998     Tung-Sol
  6AS7G   Sylvania
  6AS7G   CEI
   
  VT-231 Tung-Sol BGRP
  6SN7W  Raytheon
  6SN7GT RCA Grey Glass  
   
  Denon Zeus cabled 4x22awg OCC Cu
  Sennheiser HD600
  AKG K702
   
  Dayton Audio Spikes - 1.25" diameter; 1.5" height
  ViaBlue TRI Absorbers
   
   
  On the last day of Winter, one option remains - DACs. Later tonight will swap in my E-MU 0404 USB Interface w/Regulated Linear Supply. There's no question the current DAC (Wyred4Sound DAC-1 with Upgraded Digital Board & Low ESR "Super Caps") is the better performer. But the aim here is to check the amp's versatility and above all,_ to have fun doing it!. _


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## Silent One

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> Is that blue glowy thing under the maple block an external HD? cuz if it is... you might want to move or isolate that.  ?
> It's probably something else but I just got a 1TB bus-powered firewire external drive and I am surprised with how much it... wiggles.


 






 Wiggles? I don't understand. Yes, that is one of my external HDD's  - bus-powered firewire (the other remains unplugged until backups). Not having any problems with isolation - it's been under the desk, around the desk near and far with no changes. Also, for a time, it had its own single TRI Absorber. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Discussions are highly valuable, as they can introduce ideas or fresh thinking. Thanks to you, I decided to revisit isolating the external HDD. In the spirit of testing, the only thing I've yet to try is "without." So, I disconnected the bad boy. I'm happy to report all is good. 
   
  Curiously, what are you feeding the Shoe box (W4S)?


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## ckunstadt

(Vibrates). Over any of the other gear... my external HD actually creates a lot of its own vibration. But if it's all isolated, then cool!
  I was just thinking that if I was using one of my slightly microphonic tubes, then having my HD (sitting nearby) might be a problem. Why-else isolate?
   
  So, I just got a Mac Mini and put 8GB of RAM in it. As soon as I get the little tool kit from OWC, I will put in my 40GB SSD. Running Amarra. Disabled Spotlight, Bluetooth and Dashboard.
   
  Right now I am using a short, very scrawny USB cable. I'm pretty sure it's not USB 2 rated. As an experiment, I cut and pulled out the power pin from the computer end of the cable. The DAC works just fine without USB power. I might try to find a DIYer to do-it-himself-and-sell-me a USB cable with no power wire and with a sturdy, pure silver signal wire.
   
  Then... I will get into power cables and conditioning.
   
  Down the road... have the WA22 souped up or talk to Glenn about a project amp.


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## Silent One

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> (Vibrates). Over any of the other gear... my external HD actually creates a lot of its own vibration. But if it's all isolated, then cool!
> I was just thinking that if I was using one of my slightly microphonic tubes, then having my HD (sitting nearby) might be a problem. Why-else isolate?
> 
> So, I just got a Mac Mini and put 8GB of RAM in it. As soon as I get the little tool kit from OWC, I will put in my 40GB SSD. Running Amarra. Disabled Spotlight, Bluetooth and Dashboard.
> ...


 







 
  You're making some great moves! Bravo on cutting the power leg in the USB - W4S is one of those DACs that can power its own internal USB receiving unit. I may try this...
   
  I got my firewire enclosure and 8GB RAM from OWC - great group over there! Currently running a 60GB internal SSD but now thinking about 120GB or 240GB... love my SSD! I'm running Amarra (Full) but on Snow Leopard - was put off by Lion, although Mountain Lion awaits...


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## Silent One

Next up for the 6AS7 based OTL amp? The "X" mod (switchable cathode resistors). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The mod is so named because *X*calibur255 brilliantly conceived the idea for the amp, which now has been expertly implemented into the amp's design. This will allow the 5998 tubes to run at a higher plate current in the 6AS7 slot (please correct any inaccuracies here Glenn; Xcalibur255). 
   
  I've long saved up the $$$ for the mod, but shipping the little one (12kg?) round-trip from coast-to-coast, may force the consumption of Lipton tea before long! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But, I understand it'll be worth it.


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## Xcalibur255

Right-o.  Just to put some numbers to it.....
   
  6AS7G maximum plate current - 120mA
  5998 maximum plate current - 140mA
   
  Operating plate current of a 6AS7G in this amp's circuit - 100mA
  Operating plate current of a 5998 in this amp's circuit - 60mA
   
  You can see the untapped potential there.  The 5998 draws less current in the same circuit.  It's a similar tube to a 6AS7 but not identical, and a 60mA plate current is less than ideal for the tube.  The second set of cathode resistors just allows the tube to draw more current.  It put the tube closer to its ideal operating curve and makes the resulting output more linear.  I did feel it picked up more drive, but the real win was greater transparency.  A clear step above what any 6AS7 I've ever heard is capable of.
   
  I have no reservations about the mod whatsoever today and am very glad I did it.  Maybe all the ear popping my recent plane ride caused was good for my ears because when I got back earlier this week the amp sounded better than ever.  Darn near perfect.  If I hadn't already set things in motion with the 45 project I would be having serious doubts about the need now because the OTL as it is now leaves very little left on the table.  Heck I don't even have a top tier headphone.  I can't wait for the day I can plug an LCD-2 or Hifiman into this amp.


----------



## Silent One

Outstanding contribution, Xcalibur255!  I have just a few more days of collecting $$$ inside my tea tins - can't wait to ship this bad boy! The HE-6's I have in my custody temporarily, nearly suffocated the OTL amp - simply wasn't enough there there. I knew this before hand but I also knew it was an itch... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  When I get the amp back from Glenn, I'll chase my neighbor down the street (shipsupt) so we can listen to his LCD-2's on the amp, HD800's and so on. You do know that if the 45 Project yields no additional stratosphere 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I'll likely give you what you paid for it. Something to keep in mind, while I focus on getting side-tracked by Pen-Fi. 
   
  In the next 30, will try the ITT/Hitachi 6SN7GTB for the first time in the amp with the 5998's; 3DG4.


----------



## wotts

Quote:


silent one said:


> Next up for the 6AS7 based OTL amp? The "X" mod (switchable cathode resistors).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey! I resemble that remark! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Just a few short weeks until I have my own Glenn designed amp in my possesion. The "X" mod will be installed...just need to find some 5998s now. I'm looking forward to comparing it to the Valhalla and Crack with the T1s. I may hook the W3000ANV up as well, but I'm not sure if that will be a good pairing.

  
   

  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If I hadn't already set things in motion with the* 45 project *I would be having serious doubts about the need now because the OTL as it is now leaves very little left on the table.


 

  





  This sounds very exciting.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Quote:
> 
> Hey! I resemble that remark!
> 
> ...


 


  I'm paying for being an early adopter - the cost of the mod + shipping could have been NOS 5998's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I'm still looking for NOS 5998's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Searched over the weekend - wrongly checking eBay... I should have been checking people's closets & basements! 




   
  Glenn said the "X" mod lowers the amp's output impedance by half. So, if my Denon's are doing ok @ 25 ohms now, I should see improvements on two fronts. Blue skies ahead? Also, it must be said, this OTL amp represents extreme value - playing well above its price-point!


----------



## wotts

I looked at ePay too. I'm not sure I'm going to spring for tubes just yet. I have 4 NOS 6AS7 on hand to try and maybe 3-4 of the 3DG4 rectifiers. I may call on the cat locally with a horde of tubes to see what all he has. Next weekend is going to be busy!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I looked at ePay too. I'm not sure I'm going to spring for tubes just yet. I have 4 NOS 6AS7 on hand to try and maybe 3-4 of the 3DG4 rectifiers. I may call on the cat locally with a horde of tubes to see what all he has. Next weekend is going to be busy!


 

 What NOS 6AS7's are you sittin' on? Hmmm, since you're gonna be sizing this cat up, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 how 'bout keeping an eye out for United Electronics Company USAF-596... thanks!


----------



## wotts

All four are marked RCA on the base, "6AS7 G" on the glass and two are marked "3-04" one with "209" and the last "2-17". The last one appears to have a loose base.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Three are in "Standard Brand" boxes and one is in an RCA box. I am unsure if the boxes are original. I'll dig out my tube testerafter work and see what I can find, but that may be nothing since I'm sure it needs to be calibrated.

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> What NOS 6AS7's are you sittin' on? Hmmm, since you're gonna be sizing this cat up,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Outstanding contribution, Xcalibur255!  I have just a few more days of collecting $$$ inside my tea tins - can't wait to ship this bad boy! The HE-6's I have in my custody temporarily, nearly suffocated the OTL amp - simply wasn't enough there there. I knew this before hand but I also knew it was an itch...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So you thought the amp didn't have the drive for the HE-6 then?  Then again few amps really do.  The modification might help that some. 
   
  I'm definitely going forward with the 45.  It's very important to me.  I may have mis-expressed myself, I am just feeling a little guilty about replacing the OTL when it is an outstanding piece of gear that doesn't deserve to be replaced by anything.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Glenn said the "X" mod lowers the amp's output impedance by half. So, if my Denon's are doing ok @ 25 ohms now, I should see improvements on two fronts. Blue skies ahead? Also, it must be said, this OTL amp represents extreme value - playing well above its price-point!


 


  If you issues with bass control before the mod should cure that.  I'm at 62 ohms though so I was never really challenging the amp in the first place.  Would love to hear a 300/600 Ohm beyer or senn on it someday, that *is* what OTL is best at after all.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I looked at ePay too. I'm not sure I'm going to spring for tubes just yet. I have 4 NOS 6AS7 on hand to try and maybe 3-4 of the 3DG4 rectifiers. I may call on the cat locally with a horde of tubes to see what all he has. Next weekend is going to be busy!


 

 No harm in buying up 3DG4 tubes, but I would say it isn't necessary.  The one tube will last for years.  I have a second for backup and am satisfied with that.
   
  I would caution you about buying 6AS7 in advance though, especially if your window of opportunity to return them closes before you have your amp.  US made 6AS7 are often noisy so its good to be able to check them right away and get a refund if necessary for bad tubes.  I learned this the hard way.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If you issues with bass control before the mod should cure that.  I'm at 62 ohms though so I was never really challenging the amp in the first place.  Would love to hear a 300/600 Ohm beyer or senn on it someday, that *is* what OTL is best at after all.


 

 No issues with Bass control to report. What I can report is the ITT (Japan) 6SN7GTB's sounded better in the Woo, as opposed to doing work in the OTL amp in single mode. The TS-BGRP sounds so much better... even the Ray's. 
   
  I currently have a pair of recabled Senn HD600's in-house. They sound good. Though, I have preferred the sound of the Denon's to date. This leads me to believe that the OTL pairing with a low impedance phone like Denon performs better than expected. Three weeks back, I went round-n-round with the HD600-K702-D7000. Eight hours later, I still preferred the D7000. I know that's not really enough time, but I did extended runs from the 30 to 60 minutes at a time. After my brain seasoned, reasoned and settled after each switch, my order of preference did not change from the first round.
   
  Additionally, though the D7000 is performing better inside the listening room than on paper, lowering the output impedance will make for a better dance partner - my D7000's can't wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 More current, more happiness...
   
  I'd like to hear 600 ohm Beyers and may have the chance when I visit Clayton SF in about 10 days. No need to drag the OTL amp to his apartment... he's got one! Also, as I approached 126 hours (estimated) last night on the amp, I'm hearing my first subtle hints of mellowing.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> No harm in buying up 3DG4 tubes, but I would say it isn't necessary.  The one tube will last for years.  I have a second for backup and am satisfied with that.
> 
> I would caution you about buying 6AS7 in advance though, especially if your window of opportunity to return them closes before you have your amp.  US made 6AS7 are often noisy so its good to be able to check them right away and get a refund if necessary for bad tubes.  I learned this the hard way.


 


  Now that I'm committed to getting the "X" mod, I'm taking your advice and seeking a pair of NOS 5998's (hopefully silent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). I have now begun to search high and low 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







, maybe sellers don't know I'm out there...


----------



## john57

I brought a few 3DG4 tubes with different getters, I have seen one,two and even three getters on 3DG4 tubes. My favorite 3DG4 tube is a GE with two halos getters on top not the usual two side getters. Here is what may be the 3DG4 three getter version as an example.
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-ZENITH-Electronic-Tube-3DG4-/260678159962?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cb1a10e5a


----------



## Silent One

The crème of 3DG4 rectifiers - now, which manufacturers would those be?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No issues with Bass control to report. What I can report is the ITT (Japan) 6SN7GTB's sounded better in the Woo, as opposed to doing work in the OTL amp in single mode. The TS-BGRP sounds so much better... even the Ray's.
> 
> I currently have a pair of recabled Senn HD600's in-house. They sound good. Though, I have preferred the sound of the Denon's to date. This leads me to believe that the OTL pairing with a low impedance phone like Denon performs better than expected. Three weeks back, I went round-n-round with the HD600-K702-D7000. Eight hours later, I still preferred the D7000. I know that's not really enough time, but I did extended runs from the 30 to 60 minutes at a time. After my brain seasoned, reasoned and settled after each switch, my order of preference did not change from the first round.
> 
> ...


 

 I think this amp handles low impedance much better than the typical OTL design.  It gives me the impression that I don't really have to care about matching phones to the amp, though I have found that the cheaper low impedance high sensitivity cans are a bit of a no no because of how much audible hum is present.  My current setup is close enough to silent to call silent most of the time, when the tung sol BGRP isn't mis-behaving itself anyway.
   
  Try the Hitachi (ITT) with those Sylvania 6AS7Gs.  You might be surprised.  It'll be a bit softer sound than the 5998s but it's very nice.  I didn't care for the Hitachi with the 5998s, it just sounded wrong somehow.  I was even more disappointed with the National Union blackglass, those were downright bad with the 5998 and uninspiring paired with 6AS7s too.  I vastly prefer them on the Woo driven by my Mullard GZ33.  I think my most pleasant surprise was the Hytron which completely gives the BGRP Tung Sol a run for its money in midrange resolution and sounds great in general.  Great tube.  I finally found love for the Brimars too, they sound sweet and seductive with great texture and depth with the 5998.  Never cared for the Brimars in the Woo.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The crème of 3DG4 rectifiers - now, which manufacturers would those be?


 

 There are only 3:  GE RCA and Sylvania.  Anything else is a re-brand.  I've never heard an RCA, and of the other two I personally prefer the Sylvanias.  The GEs sound a little flatter and duller, the tone is a bit bleached sounding to me.  Somebody else might call them more neutral, but I found it killed the musicality a bit.  My Raytheon branded Sylvania 3DG4 has been in my amp 100% of the time since I quit piddling around with my 5V3s.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> There are only 3:  GE RCA and Sylvania.  Anything else is a re-brand.  I've never heard an RCA, and of the other two I personally prefer the Sylvanias.  The GEs sound a little flatter and duller, the tone is a bit bleached sounding to me.  Somebody else might call them more neutral, but I found it killed the musicality a bit.  My Raytheon branded Sylvania 3DG4 has been in my amp 100% of the time since I quit piddling around with my 5V3s.


 

 The GE is what shipped; have installed now. Since prices are Earthbound, I'll look for Sylvania's later tonight! I'm looking forward to hearing the _Mighty 596_ once the OTL is modded and draw some comparisons (mid-April).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think this amp handles low impedance much better than the typical OTL design.  It gives me the impression that I don't really have to care about matching phones to the amp, though I have found that the cheaper low impedance high sensitivity cans are a bit of a no no because of how much audible hum is present.  My current setup is close enough to silent to call silent most of the time, when the tung sol BGRP isn't mis-behaving itself anyway.
> 
> Try the Hitachi (ITT) with those Sylvania 6AS7Gs.  You might be surprised.  It'll be a bit softer sound than the 5998s but it's very nice.  I didn't care for the Hitachi with the 5998s, it just sounded wrong somehow.  I was even more disappointed with the National Union blackglass, those were downright bad with the 5998 and uninspiring paired with 6AS7s too.  I vastly prefer them on the Woo driven by my Mullard GZ33.  I think my most pleasant surprise was the Hytron which completely gives the BGRP Tung Sol a run for its money in midrange resolution and sounds great in general.  Great tube.  I finally found love for the Brimars too, they sound sweet and seductive with great texture and depth with the 5998.  Never cared for the Brimars in the Woo.


 

 I think you're right about this particular OTL build. Before receiving the amp, I'd gotten so many OTL/Low impedance, high sensitivity advisories, you'd have thought I was living in Kansas without a basement. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's always great avoiding disaster inside the listening room...
   
  Now curious, I think I will roll a tube or two late nite and find out more about the ITT/Sylvania combo. Thanks, it's one I have not tried - definitely more combos than I dealt with prior.


----------



## john57

GE made several 3DG4 getter versions of the same tube for what ever reason. Many are Sylvania. Zenith TV's in the early 1960's were a heavy user of the 3DG4 tubes it is  a very rugged tube rarely fails. 240 ma per plate for a total of 480 ma output. The 3DG4 was used in the very first Zenith color TV. The 3DG4 at 3.3 volts x 3.8 amps is is using 12.54 watts, and the common 5U4 for example, at 5 volts and 3 amps uses 15 watts of filament power. The only other rectifier tube that I ever had any luck in my amp is the 5V3A which uses 3 amps instead of the 3.8amps of the 5V3.a harder tube to find since many are mislabeled.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I brought a few 3DG4 tubes with different getters, I have seen one,two and even three getters on 3DG4 tubes. My favorite 3DG4 tube is a GE with two halos getters on top not the usual two side getters. Here is what may be the 3DG4 three getter version as an example.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-ZENITH-Electronic-Tube-3DG4-/260678159962?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cb1a10e5a


 


  Yeah, I got the side-getter action on the GE. Curiously, does the placement of getters on the top; extra getter, impart a slightly different sound in the amp?


----------



## john57

getter placement is talked about a great deal in 6SN7 tubes. Chrome tops, clear tops, bottom getters side getters make more of a difference for a driver tube than the rectifier tube. The GE top twin halos are a bit taller tube than the side getter which is the more common version. 3DG4 tubes are cheap enough to experiment a bit if you like without having to be concern with tube disasters.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think getter placement is used more for identification than anything, it can't affect how a tube sounds.  If we assume the voltage drop and sag is the same for any 3DG4 made by a particular company then they *should* all sound the same.  Should.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I kept some listening notes from my driver tube rolling that I can share, but they are super long-winded and somewhat haphazard which is why they didn't find their way onto the forum.  I really need to re-read them actually as they may not be completely valid anymore given the amp has continued to settle in since then.  At the time I was still voicing complaints about sibilance, something that has since banished itself to near non-existence even with problematic material.


----------



## rosgr63

When it comes to 6SN7's used as drivers in some amps different batches of the same tube can sound different.
  A different getter type probably means a different batch, assembly maybe different materials, etc.
  I think that it does affect the sound but I can't say how much.
  This is my opinion and experience, I don't have any technical evidence/explanation to substantiate it.
  When I was talking to an ex Mullard Engineer about the subject regarding ECC32 getter types, he laughed.
  He thought there was no difference in sound but some people had a different opinion.


----------



## john57

The key word is should. I always wonder why would GE even bother to make different getter versions of the 3DG4 tube and make one larger for what for? The 3 getter version might have a better vacuum with less AC leakage perhaps. There might be a difference in the plates capacitances that might interact with the rest of the circuit. The trouble with tube manuals is that they never quite quote exactly same figures for Voltage drop, sag and current on the same tube expecially with the 5V3 tubes the numbers were all over the place. I wish I had a tube test socket so that I can measure the voltage potentials and the noise levels with a scope on my setup. But in the end it is how the ear and you hears is what matters and you even have a perference for the Sylvania. On paper and the math is seems that it should not matter sometimes.


----------



## Silent One

FYI @ Xcalibur255
   
  I too, may end up with a 45 amp... _and soon!_ This Blue Power light is way too bright for my late night/overnight sessions. I like silence and darkness in the background. I'm close to re-positioning the amp at a 45 degree angle. 




   
  Didn't mean to imply I was getting a 45 amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> When it comes to 6SN7's used as drivers in some amps different batches of the same tube can sound different.
> A different getter type probably means a different batch, assembly maybe different materials, etc.
> I think that it does affect the sound but I can't say how much.
> This is my opinion and experience, I don't have any technical evidence/explanation to substantiate it.
> ...


 


  For drivers and power tubes I can agree with this actually.  My statement was meant more for the 3DG4 and rectifiers in general since producing the B+ is their only contribution to the audio signal so long as the voltage drop and sag is consistent from tube to tube within a specific type and brand they should also sound consistent was my thought.


----------



## rosgr63

It sounds very logical, I agree too.


----------



## john57

I would tend to agree but there seems to be  a few things going on under the covers that we did not know about. I still do not know the reasons why engineers make different getter arangements for the 3DG4 tubes. Why spend the money and trouble doing this? The plates techology used in the 3DG4 tubes have changed very little in design over their time period that I can see. Too many questions and not enough answers.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





silent one said:


> FYI @ Xcalibur255
> 
> I too, may end up with a 45 amp... _and soon!_ This Blue Power light is way too bright for my late night/overnight sessions. I like silence and darkness in the background. I'm close to re-positioning the amp at a 45 degree angle.
> 
> ...


 


  [size=medium]I love the blue power light! I think it is cool! What is worst is the blue power light on my monitor it always shining in the corner of my eye at least it does not blink.  What about my DAC that has 30 LED lit on it across its two feet? At least it is above my head. The two blue lights on my speaker monitors and the computer blue light on the door hinge. I can always find my way in the dark.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


[/size]


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]I love the blue power light! I think it is cool! What is worst is the blue power light on my monitor it always shining in the corner of my eye at least it does not blink.  What about my DAC that has 30 LED lit on it across its two feet? At least it is above my head. The two blue lights on my speaker monitors and the computer blue light on the door hinge. I can always find my way in the dark.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Light pollution-
   
  I think some manufacturers have gotten carried away... _"Look at me, look at me!"  _I had to go so far as to place (hide?) the USBridge and external HDD underneath the Maple block, the two are so bright! 
   
  I really don't mind the illumination of some components, but collectively... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 enough already!




   
  Without resorting to film, I wish I could dim the Silver Hawk's power button. Actually, I just got an idea - move the amp back a couple of inches and simply prop something in front of it in-session.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Am I the only person who thinks that a power indicator light on a piece of tube gear is a little redundant?


----------



## wotts

Indeed. However, it is a nice indicator in case there is some sort of catastrophic failure.

  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Am I the only person who thinks that a power indicator light on a piece of tube gear is a little redundant?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Am I the only person who thinks that a power indicator light on a piece of tube gear is a little redundant?


 
  Quote: 





wotts said:


> Indeed. However, it is a nice indicator in case there is some sort of catastrophic failure.


 


  I'm with Xcalibur255 on this one! Seated a mere 12" away from the amp, if something catastrophic happens... I'm going to know at some point.


----------



## john57

I had a few catastrophic events already. The amp power button is always depressed and I control the power by using the power center. The power light just tells me that the amp fuse and the secondary is active by the way Glenn has wired the light.


----------



## Silent One

Since I've yet to ship the amp back, do you think he'll be able to reduce the brightness of the LED?


----------



## john57

You might be able to put a filter in front of the LED to cut down the light. The light and switch came with the blank case. I am sure Glenn will find a way. My Gigaware USB memory thumb drive has the most annoying light ever. I like the silver front panel since a black panel does not always hold up specially at the edges. I have other  equipment with black panels and the paint even fadded.  A black panel might make the light seems brighter.  As long you are aware of what could happen you are good to go.


----------



## wotts

That depends upon how the switch is configured. If the voltage supply to the LED is separate from the switching voltage supply, then yes. A resistor could be added in line and would drop the voltage and reduce the brightness. My bet is it's an all-in-one button like the Bulgin switch I used on my ß22/σ22. I'd really have to see how it is wired to know.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Since I've yet to ship the amp back, do you think he'll be able to reduce the brightness of the LED?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> You might be able to put a filter in front of the LED to cut down the light. The light and switch came with the blank case. I am sure Glenn will find a way. My Gigaware USB memory thumb drive has the most annoying light ever. I like the silver front panel since a black panel does not always hold up specially at the edges. I have other  equipment with black panels and the paint even fadded.  A black panel might make the light seems brighter.  As long you are aware of what could happen you are good to go.


 

 I'll find a way to deal with it. So, our designer can focus on other things like getting other builds done.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'll find a way to deal with it. So, our designer can focus on other things like getting other builds done.


 


 When you send it for upgrade I will put a larger resistance resistor in series with the LED to make it dull


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> When you send it for upgrade I will put a larger resistance resistor in series with the LED to make it dull


 


  Great! As long as I don't take a performance hit.


----------



## john57

_From Glenn studios_ __
   
_12SN7 to 6SN7 voltage doubler using large 1000uf capacitors_


----------



## wotts

Ooooo....I could use all those 12SN7s I found in my stash the other night.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> _From Glenn studios_ __
> 
> _12SN7 to 6SN7 voltage doubler using large 1000uf capacitors_


 







 _None of my tea tins are safe! Will be rummaging through all of 'em looking for extra change to send Glenn..._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Ooooo....I could use all those 12SN7s I found in my stash the other night.


 

 Pricing for the 12SN7 series certainly looks attractive. Will have to inquire. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If Glenn reads Head-Fi instead of the morning paper, then I won't have to...


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Pricing for the 12SN7 series certainly looks attractive. Will have to inquire.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   I filled out the Head-Fi survey the other day and laughed at the question about how many hours I spent on the site per week. I read it at home, work, school and will check my subs on my phone when I am away. *sigh*
   
   
   
  So is that adapter to use in any amp? I assume the intent was for Glenn Studios amps.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It should be okay in other amps that use the 6SN7 too.
   
  This is no doubt the smarter way to go about acquiring this particular type of tube, so I say to myself after spending way too much money on way too many 6SN7 tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I filled out the Head-Fi survey the other day and laughed at the question about how many hours I spent on the site per week. I read it at home, work, school and will check my subs on my phone when I am away. *sigh*
> 
> 
> 
> So is that adapter to use in any amp? I assume the intent was for Glenn Studios amps.


 

  
  Your time on the site is valuable - always poised to make a contribution. I would think the adapter would work for any amp as specified (12SN7>6SN7). You've another amp in mind? I'm getting restless. I have a refund being processed (SB Touch) and the proceeds are to fund the "X" mod (and shipping). It's already been received and inspected. The payment is in the books! Apparently, someone in Accounts Payable is dilly-dallying.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Ooooo....I could use all those 12SN7s I found in my stash the other night.


 







 Just what kind of premium 12SN7 tubes are lurking inside your closet anyway?


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It should be okay in other amps that use the 6SN7 too.
> 
> This is no doubt the smarter way to go about acquiring this particular type of tube, so I say to myself after spending way too much money on way too many 6SN7 tubes.


 


 I bought a lot of 6SN7s before I even had an amp to use them. In the hoard I've alluded to I've found 60+ of them from different manufactures. I really need to catalog this stuff.
   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Your time on the site is valuable - always poised to make a contribution.* I would think the adapter would work for any amp as specified (12SN7>6SN7). You've another amp in mind? I'm getting restless. I have a refund being processed (SB Touch) and the proceeds are to fund the "X" mod (and shipping). It's already been received and inspected. The payment is in the books! Apparently, someone in Accounts Payable is dilly-dallying.


 


 I feel the same can be said about you good sir!


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just what kind of premium 12SN7 tubes are lurking inside your closet anyway?


 


 I think I saw mainly Sylvania. As I mentioned above, I need to really take time to write down what is there.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]  With the 12SN7 adapter you can also use the 12SX7GT as well. The 12SX7GT is considered to be the premium version of the 12SN7. The 12SX7GT has twisted heater wires that may give lower hum noise in the amp. The RCA gray glass 12SX7GT is supposedly one of the better tubes. I am getting a few Ray NOS 12SN7 tubes for $3 each. I should also be able to use the 14N7 tubes as well since I do have a 7N7 adapter if I wanted to. Voltage doubler are a trickier adapter to make because of the switching noise of the diodes and SMT capacitors may not do the job. Glenn then had to use an extra large socket to fit in the 1000uf capacitors to minimize the noise.   Since the adapter is extra large it will only work on amps that have some space between the sockets and the socket needs to be flush with the top panel with the adapter I have. [/size]
  [size=11pt] [/size]


----------



## Silent One

Since the rest of us seem to have _later production models, _do you think our amps are up for the conversion?


----------



## rosgr63

I am pleased Glenn solved the noise problem with the 12SN7 to 6SN7 adapters.
  We talked about it last December, didn't take long for Glenn to sort it out.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/479031/6sn7-tube-addicts/1440#post_7961152


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am pleased Glenn solved the noise problem with the 12SN7 to 6SN7 adapters.
> We talked about it last December, didn't take long for Glenn to sort it out.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/479031/6sn7-tube-addicts/1440#post_7961152


 


  Thanks for the post, rosgr63. I want in!


----------



## rosgr63

You are most welcome SO.
  Another solution is to design an amp that can use either 12SN7 or 6SN7 tubes by means of a selector switch without the need of an adapter.


----------



## john57

[size=11pt]Glenn has put an EC(engineering change) on my older version of the amp to make it more resilient against shorts.  The 6.3v filament is now floating on 1/2 of cathode voltage which is 125v and the other cathode is at 25v. Which in turn means that the heater to cathode voltage has a net difference of 100v which is much lower that before as before to prevent dielectric breakdown between the heater and the cathode. My amp was designed for the Russia 6AS7/6N13S tube which can handle up to 300V between the heater and the cathode. Tubes like the 5998 and the 7236 can only handle 100V between the heater and the cathode otherwise the tube can short out which did happen. [size=medium]The cathode of the 6SN7 [size=11pt]is run positive in respect to the other cathode.[/size][/size][/size]
  [size=11pt]My amp looks quite crowded now. Adding an selector switch for the 12SN7 and 6SN7 and add the voltage doubler or float the 12v line with a transformer change depending on space available in the amp are options. Only Glenn knows for sure. One advantage of an adapter is that I do not have to concern about remembering to switch back to the 6v when using the 6SN7 tubes. My adapter is ceramic base with gold plated pins and appears to be along the first that Glenn has built. [/size]


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your time on the site is valuable - always poised to make a contribution. I would think the adapter would work for any amp as specified (12SN7>6SN7). You've another amp in mind? I'm getting restless. I have a refund being processed (SB Touch) and the proceeds are to fund the "X" mod (and shipping). It's already been received and inspected. The payment is in the books! Apparently, someone in Accounts Payable is dilly-dallying.


 

 This adapter will not work on any amp the 6SN7 Filament has to be run on AC not DC and it will not work in Woo amps that have the two 6SN7s in series running off 12.6 volts. plus
  the Woo sockets are recessed and this adapter will not fit.
     First you would have to know if your amp runs the 6SN7 off AC or DC before considering one of these.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> This adapter will not work on any amp the 6SN7 Filament has to be run on AC not DC and it will not work in Woo amps that have the two 6SN7s in series running off 12.6 volts. plus
> the Woo sockets are recessed and this adapter will not fit.
> First you would have to know if your amp runs the 6SN7 off AC or DC before considering one of these.


 

 This is great to know... and great that I won't have this dilemma. The OTL is my sole tube amp for now. You made a beautiful looking adapter, by the way!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> This adapter will not work on any amp the 6SN7 Filament has to be run on AC not DC and it will not work in Woo amps that have the two 6SN7s in series running off 12.6 volts. plus
> the Woo sockets are recessed and this adapter will not fit.
> First you would have to know if your amp runs the 6SN7 off AC or DC before considering one of these.


 

 Glenn is there a simple way to find out if an amp runs the 6SN7 off AC or DC?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn is there a simple way to find out if an amp runs the 6SN7 off AC or DC?


 
  Do you have a digitad volt meter? If you put on AC remove the 6SN7 tube put the probes in pins 7 & 8 turn the amp on
  if it reads 6.3 or so it will be AC
  if not put it on DC and and it reads then it is DC. Or better yet can you get any info on the amp I do know that your single Power
  amp is running them on DC


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Glenn.
  Would a test socket with the tube in place be better?
   
  Regarding the SP PPX-6SN7 are both the driver and power tubes on DC?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Thanks Glenn.
> Would a test socket with the tube in place be better?
> 
> Regarding the SP PPX-6SN7 are both the driver and power tubes on DC?


 

 Yes that would be better if you have a test socket I don't think they make them anymore.
  The SP PPX-6SN7 all the 6SN7s are run on DC


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Glenn.
   
  I have some Pomona test sockets which I haven't used yet.
  Maybe it's time.
   
  Does this have anything to do with the AC/DC coupling of the driver?


----------



## john57

This is what Glenn has said before about  the 12SN7 adapter
   
_The voltage doubler works by having two diodes and two capacitors and each capacitor gets charged to_
_6.3 volts DC and the two capacitors are in series. So the combined charge adds up to 12.6 volts DC. At the_
_higher current that a tube filament draws could make to much ripple from the pulsating DC from the diodes_
_recharging the capacitors 60X a second. A large value capacitor won't fit in the adapter plus it needs two._
   
  Along the way Glenn stated that he was looking in using SMT capacitors but I am not sure if he was able to use them and he stated that he used large 1000uf capacitors. If you look at the size of those caps on Ebay for example you realize it is not easy to find an adapter that has enough space to put those caps in plus the two diodes. Glenn used a extra large socket case. If do not have AC the adapter can not work its "magic" to double the voltage. That  the way I understood it.


----------



## john57

I wish I had a test tube socket so that I may answer some of my questions on SQ vs readings like small changes in B+ voltages but do not like the prices.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]I have successfully integrated Glenn 12SN7 adapter in my system. I was a bit apprehensive since I will be using the Cetron 7236 tube which my amp did not like until Glenn made the engineering changes to my amp. I am delighted that everything worked out just fine. I decided not to wait for the cheaper 12SN7 to arrive so I use the 2C50 tube in Glenn 12SN7 adapter and it worked very well indeed.  The Cetron 7236 has more midrange and deeper bass extension but was a bit loose sounding until I changed to the 2C50 tube which has great bass control. It was a great combination to use, yippee! [/size]


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]I have successfully integrated Glenn 12SN7 adapter in my system. I was a bit apprehensive since I will be using the Cetron 7236 tube which my amp did not like until Glenn made the engineering changes to my amp. I am delighted that everything worked out just fine. I decided not to wait for the cheaper 12SN7 to arrive so I use the 2C50 tube in Glenn 12SN7 adapter and it worked very well indeed.  The Cetron 7236 has more midrange and deeper bass extension but was a bit loose sounding until I changed to the 2C50 tube which has great bass control. It was a great combination to use, yippee! [/size]


 






  Reading this was a Sunday delight! Very excited for you, as I contemplate (daydream?) about like changes to my own amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Thanks Glenn.
> 
> I have some Pomona test sockets which I haven't used yet.
> Maybe it's time.
> ...


 

 That amp is DC coupled up to the output. But the DC on the filaments is just to reduce hum in that amp


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Glenn.
  What I ment to say was is there a simple way to check if an amp has the 6SN7 driver AC or DC coupled?


----------



## john57

here a photo of a 2C50 tube using Glenn 12SN7 adapter Raytheon is the only maker of the 2C50 tube. Mine was made in Nov. of 1952
  and has one of the lowest leakage/gas reading of any 12SN7/6SN7 tube that I had measured to date. Great clear bass and midrange control with the
  Cetron/TS 7236 box plates. The brass socket gleams in low room light on the amp with the label in the back. The amp has a gentle sweetness to the sound but still
  quite powerful when music demands it.


----------



## rosgr63

That's a nice photo John.
  The tube & adapter look very nice!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> here a photo of a 2C50 tube using Glenn 12SN7 adapter Raytheon is the only maker of the 2C50 tube. Mine was made in Nov. of 1952
> and has one of the lowest leakage/gas reading of any 12SN7/6SN7 tube that I had measured to date. Great clear bass and midrange control with the
> Cetron/TS 7236 box plates. The brass socket gleams in low room light on the amp with the label in the back. The amp has a gentle sweetness to the sound but still
> quite powerful when music demands it.


 







 What an adventure! Next, I'd love to see that glory seated inside the tube socket on the amp. Are the Ray's widely and cheaply available or rare?


----------



## Xcalibur255

So how are fellow owners doing for amp burn-in/settle in?  Every time I turn mine on it sounds better than the last time, a fact that astounds me more and more each time I experience it.  Sibilance?  Harshness?  Completely non-existent now, even on bad material.  The presentation continues to gain depth, as though you can dive into every individual note as deeply as you want to.  I burn my amp in by listening to it, so it has probably taken me longer to get there than some of you. 
   
  This amp is probably the single best purchase I have ever made.  I can't thank Glenn enough for sharing his talents.
   
  I came round-robin the other day and finally went back to my Sylvania chrome dome GT driver.  The BGRP started acting up again and I ran out of patience for it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I had previously bellyached that my beloved Sylvania sounded harsh when the amp first came back from its mod.  Now it sounds hauntingly beautiful, different in ways from the Tung Sol but really just as good overall.  It brings the emotion out of the human voice in a way that is very right.  Clearly something was in need of some burn time when the amp came back, be it the 5998s at their new operating point, the pot, the resistors or who knows, but I'm glad things have gone where they are now.


----------



## Silent One

It's been slow going. I have an estimated 128 hours on the amp now... (We'll be back in 15 minutes). 
   
  Ordinarily, I'd have a lot more hours on new gear than that but, I feel like I'm in between worlds. The 5998 tubes sound the best to me, but with 25 ohm cans, I'm up against it! The Russian tubes are quiet and mellow but lack the detail of the 5998's. The Syls sound ok but the 5998's bring it, just a little too much! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Low-level listening has been out of the question with the D7000's. They're so efficient, I could plug them in to a transistor radio!
   
  The remedy is near - I should be shipping the amp out Wed/Thur. But this is also the reason I backed off listening, knowing the amp is going out the door soon to get Dolled up. Xcalibur255, the mod has me very excited - I knocked over my tea tin Saturday and realized I finally saved enough cash! 
   
  It's really good to hear the rest of the amps are coming on song. john57's 12SN7 adapter has left me leaning... _forward! _At some point, I've got to have it!


----------



## wotts

I'm getting really excited about my amp now. Can't wait!!


----------



## Silent One

Will you receive your amp by the weekend? Very excited for all of us! When my amp returns, it's going to see it's very on Maple platform, no more sharing!


----------



## wotts

No word on a shipping date yet. Glenn said he would contact me. I'm patient, but excited nonetheless.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Low-level listening has been out of the question with the D7000's. They're so efficient, I could plug them in to a transistor radio!


 


  You're getting the stepped attenuator right?  That will cure this problem.  The original Alps pot has a poor taper and doesn't provide enough resistance.  I can get 7 or 8 steps into the Valab pot before it really gets loud even with the 5998.  I have settled on steps 5 and 6 for most normal listening, and the first two steps are very quiet.  That was a huge improvement over the old pot which was like an on/off switch with the 5998.  I was a little worried the jumps in volume in between each step would be too much, but that hasn't been the case for me.  If you need really fine or small changes in volume this pot won't be able to do that for you though.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wotts said:


> No word on a shipping date yet. Glenn said he would contact me. I'm patient, but excited nonetheless.


 


  He must be waiting on parts.  I recall he was almost out of transformers for the OTL amps, and to get the right taps you basically have to have them made to order I think.


----------



## Silent One

Yes, I'm seeking the stepped attenautor. With shipping charges to consider, _"Throw it in, Glenn!" _


----------



## Xcalibur255

Yeah, the shipping hurts on something this heavy.  I'm glad the Valab worked out, as it was kind of a shot in the dark when I originally ordered the first one to have put into my amp.  Glenn said it tests extremely well electrically.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Yeah, the shipping hurts on something this heavy.  I'm glad the Valab worked out, as it was kind of a shot in the dark when I originally ordered the first one to have put into my amp.  Glenn said it tests extremely well electrically.


 






 You're trailblazing the R&D path... we likes that!


----------



## john57

I am glad that stepped attenuators are working out since not everyone likes it and you need the right taper curve and that seems to be the case here. One of the reasons I am using the 2C50 tube with Glenn 12SN7 adapter is that the 2C50 tube has MU factor of 10 instead of the usual 20 but has much higher output current capability than the typical 6SN7 tube.  This helps to control the overhaul gain range of the amp using output tubes that have higher MU factor. The 2C50 seem to tighten up the sound on my TS 7236 tubes much more than using the Russian TS 6SN7. The 2C50 does not appear to make of a change with the TS 6AS7 tube as much it did with the TS 7236 tube. The TS 7236, Sylvania 7236 and the TS 5998 all have very different plate structures. The box, conventional and the domino plates.  I am not going to bother trying the Sylvania 7236.  
I have a few 12SN7 tubes that came in two Ray’s at $3 a piece one short with side getter and one tall with bottom getter. One RCA gray glass 12SX7GT with twisted heater. I wonder about the claim of twisted heater until I tested the tube and noticed that the two filament wires on top were together on one side of the tube instead of one at each side of the tube.


----------



## rosgr63

John how can you tell they have twisted heaters?
  Any chance for a close up photo please?
   
  BTW I have found out that whereas the 2C51 and Bendix 6385 with a 2C51 to 6SN7 adapter drive the 6AS7G/5998 type tubes very well they struggle with the 7236 in my SP amps.


----------



## grokit

Out of the TS 7236/TS 5998/Sylvania 7236 I prefer the Sylvanias with my WA22.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]The 2C50, 2C51 and the 2C52 are very different tubes[/size]
   
  [size=medium]2C50  Raytheon like a 6SN7 but 12v with MU of 10 [/size]
   
  [size=medium]2C51=396A?  but is not a Raytheon tube but like this [/size]

   
  [size=medium]2C52 Raytheon is like the 6SL7 but at 12v with a MU of 90
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


[/size]
  [size=medium]The 2C50 and the 2C52 are both Octal tubes[/size]
  [size=medium]The 6SN7 has  a bit of trouble controlling the 7236 not the 2C50 which improves the sound dramatically with the 7236 tubes[/size]


----------



## rosgr63

2C51=396A=5670=6385
   
  They are 6.3V 9pin tubes.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]The 6SN7 has  a bit of trouble controlling the 7236 not the 2C50 which improves the sound dramatically with the 7236 tubes[/size]


 

 Hmm, that could be why I've been shying away from my 6SN7's lately. I do really like the CV-181Z with the 7236.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]If I did not have the 2C50 tube I might have not stick with the 7236 tube and might have tried the 5998 next. The 2C50 did not make as much of a difference with the 6AS7 tubes as it did with the 7236. The more I listen to the 2C50 and 7236 combination the more I feel it is the perfect choice.  I am glad that I send the amp back to Glenn and the 12SN7 adapter he made set in motion a chain of events that paved the way to great sound. [/size]


----------



## john57

12SX7GT  RCA gray glass with twisted heater. You can just see the two glowing filament wires together (top middle) of tube. Will be using this tube later. Still savoring the time with the 2C50 and 7236. Supposedly twisted heater gives less hum.


----------



## Silent One

As my audio journey continues, the insights here has been fantastic! When I look back to compare June 2012 with June 2011, it's going to be fascinating... thanks to all of you!


----------



## wotts

I was thrilled to hear from Glenn earlier today. That's always a pleasure. He's just a stand-up, classy guy.


----------



## Silent One

Agreed. But, especially when he's got the goods! I'm still waiting for my refund to hit any day now, so I can send the amp back to the studio; meet its maker. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm in week three from getting the return authorization > Shipping the SB Touch > awaiting Accounts Payable... and they booked the unit in for evidence some 7-10 days ago. 




   
  Despite getting a really good deal on the box, sometimes the service one receives from a vendor can justify paying a few dollars more. Except, I never imagined I'd end up returning the unit and went for the rock bottom price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait to shove the _Silver Hawk_ out the door!


----------



## rosgr63

Nice photo John, Thanks.
  I see exactly what you mean, beautiful tube.
  Happy listening.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I am glad that stepped attenuators are working out since not everyone likes it and you need the right taper curve and that seems to be the case here. One of the reasons I am using the 2C50 tube with Glenn 12SN7 adapter is that the 2C50 tube has MU factor of 10 instead of the usual 20 but has much higher output current capability than the typical 6SN7 tube.  This helps to control the overhaul gain range of the amp using output tubes that have higher MU factor. The 2C50 seem to tighten up the sound on my TS 7236 tubes much more than using the Russian TS 6SN7. The 2C50 does not appear to make of a change with the TS 6AS7 tube as much it did with the TS 7236 tube. The TS 7236, Sylvania 7236 and the TS 5998 all have very different plate structures. The box, conventional and the domino plates.  I am not going to bother trying the Sylvania 7236.
> I have a few 12SN7 tubes that came in two Ray’s at $3 a piece one short with side getter and one tall with bottom getter. One RCA gray glass 12SX7GT with twisted heater. I wonder about the claim of twisted heater until I tested the tube and noticed that the two filament wires on top were together on one side of the tube instead of one at each side of the tube.


 

 Great news! Glenn just informed me that my amp already has the filaments floated at 1/2 the power supply voltage; started doing this to all the amps. Again, your amp is trailblazing for the rest of us. So, all I need now is for him to make me a 12SN7 adapter.


----------



## john57

[size=medium][size=medium]When I got my amp back from Glenn the voicing seems to be much better than it ever did. There is more relaxed character to the sound with strength. There is less listening fatigue for long periods of time. The sound is sweeter than usual while still have great detail. There is greater front to rear depth to the sounds. The brass is not as much in your face but still have the proper bite to the sound. I still trying out the rest of my headphones collection but there seem to be more sub bass present. It is good to have people like Glenn arround. [/size][/size]


----------



## john57

[size=11pt]I tried the RCA gray glass 12SX7GT and did not like it. The tube even hums a bit during warm up and was a bit too soft sounding.  Next I tried the Ray $3 12SN7 tubes and they sound much better. I am in the habit of pre-testing the tubes and putting it in the amp to find out if they are keepers or to be returned. I understand now why Glenn did not like the Sylvania 7326 since the 6SN7 tubes just cannot drive them properly or do them justice. When using the Chatham 6AS7 tubes switching the Russian TS 6SN7 and the 2C50 driver did not make a huge difference. When using the 7236 tubes it was more of a night and day difference switching back and forth with the 6SN7 and the 2C50 tube. Also Grokit post #136 stated that his 6SN7 tubes did not work well with his 7326 and he currently using the CV-181Z with the 7326. I like the 2C50 7236 comb so well I have ordered another pair of TS7236 tubes from a fellow Head-Fi’er meaning that all of my audio equipment budget for the year is used up and well spend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


[/size]


----------



## rosgr63

The 12AV7 and 12AZ7 family tubes drive the 6AS7G's nicely.
  Maybe worth trying next.
  John budget and tubes don't go together!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> The 12AV7 and 12AZ7 family tubes drive the 6AS7G's nicely.
> Maybe worth trying next.
> *John budget and tubes don't go together!*


 







 Oh... and I kept following in his footsteps.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=11pt]I tried the RCA gray glass 12SX7GT and did not like it. The tube even hums a bit during warm up and was a bit too soft sounding.  Next I tried the Ray $3 12SN7 tubes and they sound much better. I am in the habit of pre-testing the tubes and putting it in the amp to find out if they are keepers or to be returned. I understand now why Glenn did not like the Sylvania 7326 since the 6SN7 tubes just cannot drive them properly or do them justice. When using the Chatham 6AS7 tubes switching the Russian TS 6SN7 and the 2C50 driver did not make a huge difference. When using the 7236 tubes it was more of a night and day difference switching back and forth with the 6SN7 and the 2C50 tube. Also Grokit post #136 stated that his 6SN7 tubes did not work well with his 7326 and he currently using the CV-181Z with the 7326. I like the 2C50 7236 comb so well I have ordered another pair of TS7236 tubes from a fellow Head-Fi’er meaning that all of my audio equipment budget for the year is used up and well spend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  By March 2012, my audio budget was already _down-the-street! _


----------



## rosgr63

My 2012 New Year's resolution was *NO More Tubes*.
  Didn't last more than a couple of hours!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> My 2012 New Year's resolution was *NO More Tubes*.
> Didn't last more than a couple of hours!


 


  That you even bothered isn't troubling, it's tickling!


----------



## rosgr63

SO you're such a "*BAD*" company!


----------



## john57

[size=medium]I made a bit of a discovery today. The TS 7236 tubes came in. The 7236 tubes that I was using were made by Cetron which brought out Tung-Sol tooling for the 7236 during Tung-Sol later days. However the TS 7236 and the Cetron 7236 are not exactly the same as I thought.  The Cetron has perfectly round clear mica on top and the brightness of the Cetron filaments is much more than the Tung-sol. The getter flashing of the Tung-Sol goes a bit lower than the Cetron.[/size]
   
_"These are my continuing experiences to explore new sonic frontiers. To go boldly where I have not heard before…."_


----------



## Silent One

We'd like to see you push through new frontier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, is the Cetron 7326 a numeric typo or is it actually a 7326 instead of 7236? I'm still playing around with footers and platforms and the sonic signature continues to change. Ordered a new Maple platform Tuesday night From The Mapleshade Store; very excited - 15"x12"x4". Hope to add a second one of the same size next week.
   
  The first platform will be for the _Silver Hawk _(the 6AS7 OTL based amp). The second platform faces auditioning - to place underneath the Mac mini music server or the W4S DAC? In June, I hope to simply by a third platform, so no need to choose after that point.


----------



## john57

It is 7236 it is all to easy for me to transpose numbers just miss that. One change that I did with mine was to change the plastic feet to thicker and taller rubber feet like in the photo. The only issue since it is natual rubber it has to air out just a bit for a few days.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> It is 7236 it is all to easy for me to transpose numbers just miss that. One change that I did with mine was to change the plastic feet to thicker and taller rubber feet like in the photo. The only issue since it is natual rubber it has to air out just a bit for a few days.


 


  When Sly & The Family Stone was singing _"I Want To Take You H-i-g-h-e-r..." _I don't think they ever considered the fumes from a listener's new rubber feet! Good to hear you gonna air 'em out! Can't wait for you to listen for changes in your amp. Hopefully, you won't suffer any sonic penalty for making the change.


----------



## john57

Adding the taller rubber feet makes sure that the air intake gets plenty of air and for better vibration isolation.


----------



## Silent One

You make audio look fun!


----------



## john57

My amp with the two Cetron 7236 tubes on the sides bright heaters but still orange you can see the clear mica spacer on top
  The 2C50 tube in front middle has rather dimer heaters
  the 3DG4 tube in top back with double top halo getters.
   
  Taken with:
   
  [size=medium]Panasonic DMC-ZS7 compressed [/size]
  [size=medium]F/3.3[/size]
  [size=medium]½ sec.[/size]
  [size=medium]ISO 400[/size]
  [size=11pt]Exposure bias -.7[/size]


----------



## Xcalibur255

The 5998 glows bright like this too, only the filaments are exposed on the bottom too so you get even more light.  I especially love how you can see the cathode glowing in between the anode plates if you look between them.  IMO it's the pretttiest tube to look at out of everything I have seen, including my mesh plate EML 274B rectifier.


----------



## Silent One

What a holiday treat, john57!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The 5998 glows bright like this too, only the filaments are exposed on the bottom too so you get even more light.  I especially love how you can see the cathode glowing in between the anode plates if you look between them.  IMO it's the pretttiest tube to look at out of everything I have seen, including my mesh plate EML 274B rectifier.


 

 After looking in darkness from the TS-BGRP & USAF-596, the 5998's look like fireworks!


----------



## john57

The Raytheon 12SN7 tubes are in the amp now and working fine. The RCA's still have not impress me as much. The Raytheon is good when you need more gain since the 2C50 has lower gain. Depending on your needs and setup both are good and a bit lower noise that the RCA's even with the gray glass.  Just finshed checking with all of my headphones taking my time.


----------



## Silent One

Perhaps, by Memorial Day weekend, we could compare notes on the 12SN7 series.


----------



## Silent One

A classic advert... _"Don't Be Vague...Ask for SPRAGUE."_


----------



## Silent One

130. That is the number of estimated hours I now have on the _Silver Hawk_. And it is here, at 130 hours that the caps have finally began to open up. It's a wonderful thing to hear; notice. The amp has a bit more depth front-to-rear, air in and around the instruments and vocals. I can peer somewhat deeper into the presentation. 
   
  My USAF-596 rectifier just returned home from a World Tour Saturday, so after an hour with the GE-3DG4, I swapped in_ The Mighty 596 _for an additional two hours of fun. The former Governor of Alaska has said she could see the country of Russia from her front porch. Since the '596' went form SoCal to Alaska, I'm sticking to my claims of a World Tour!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Did you go through about a 10-20 hour period where it sounded kinda bad recently?  If not then you're only at stage 2 of 5 in the break-in of the Spragues.  Stage 1 sounds smooth but not very transparent, Stage 2 opens up the sound field, stage 3 sounds bad, stage 4 is where it goes smooth again but doesn't have transparency yet.  Stage 5 where you'll fall in love with the amp.  It happens pretty fast too, making it even more fun.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Did you go through about a 10-20 hour period where it sounded kinda bad recently?  If not then you're only at stage 2 of 5 in the break-in of the Spragues.  Stage 1 sounds smooth but not very transparent, Stage 2 opens up the sound field, stage 3 sounds bad, stage 4 is where it goes smooth again but doesn't have transparency yet.  Stage 5 where you'll fall in love with the amp.  It happens pretty fast too, making it even more fun.


 

 This appears to be the third different presentation I've heard since I've taken delivery and pretty much settled on the 3DG4, 5998, TS-BGRPVT231 combo. Sounded a bit rough the last two weeks and as a result, I put very few hours on it due to not feeling_ moved. _Now starting to mellow and become more identifiable. By your assessment, maybe I just entered the tunnel to Stage 4.
   
  We hung it up this morning @ 133 hours. It seems that 150 hours to 175 hours may bring joy. But not peace... listening at volume 10!





   
  Although, I've no idea what the amp should sound like in full sonic bloom, it's easy to tell I'm not there yet. But, feel I can't be too far off either. And having 25 ohm cans, the "X" mod may have more of an impact... perhaps, slightly. The output impedance should drop down to 20 ohms; Glenn informs it's currently 40 ohms. The "X" mod could be the sonic wave I've been waiting for!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 130. That is the number of estimated hours I now have on the *Silver Hawk*.


 
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Did you go through about a 10-20 hour period where it sounded kinda bad recently?  If not then you're only at stage 2 of 5 in the break-in of the *Spragues*.


 
   
  So these amps have names now?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> So these amps have names now?


 


  Sprague is a brand of capacitor, mostly out of production now.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]My amp really does not have an official name. It would be nice if there was a brass tag of sort that either bears Glenn signature or his trademark. I really enjoy the amp much better since it came back. It is much more relaxed and smoother sounding with my new current setup. [/size]


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> So these amps have names now?


 

 I'm not into naming my car. Or naming the dog... wait, ain't got one - no cats-cows-chickens either! But anyway, having observed Glenn's custom builds, I just we could use a name or model number to make it convenient when conversing. Or "Slinging it around" while posting, as I originally put it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The story behind _"Silver Hawk?" _It's a play on the Black amp having a Silver face and "Kitty Hawk" for those who know the studio's location.
   
  Are you going to commission a custom build (wicked?) later this Spring/Summer?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]My amp really does not have an official name. It would be nice if there was a brass tag of sort that either bears Glenn signature or his trademark. I really enjoy the amp much better since it came back. It is much more relaxed and smoother sounding with my new current setup. [/size]


 


  Sort of like how the engines are tagged on the AMG or Brabus Mercedes I haven't bought yet. A single Master Engine Builder puts the whole thing together by themselves and then tag it with their brass signature plate - "Built by..." It really is a nice touch!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Sprague is a brand of capacitor, mostly out of production now.


 


  Since being dragged through the mud by the caps, I thought I'd bring up an old advertisement while I wait for the caps to work their wonder!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Are you going to commission a custom build (wicked?) later this Spring/Summer?


 

 My priorities don't encompass the commissioning of a new amp atm, my current aim is to optimize what I already have, and perhaps improve on the sources. But if I were...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> My priorities don't encompass the commissioning of a new amp atm, my current aim is to optimize what I already have, and perhaps improve on the sources. But if I were...


 

 This was my goal for 2012 originally - forgo new purchases but optimize the entire system. This is also why I let the Woo go, so I could fund the purchase without giving up new money. And the system has no shortage of areas to improve on. If anything, I'd be wise to improve on my battery sources - the rabbit hole is getting darker... and deeper!


----------



## john57

One of my backup 3DG4 tube   _"The Chief"_
   
__
  triple getter version


----------



## Silent One

Mercy! I wonder what the "Triple" sounds like in contrast to what's in right now. Does the extra getter influence the sound at all?


----------



## grokit

THat's a great photo, love the tungsten reflection on top.
   
  And I do _appreciate_ 2359Glenn, I don't have any of his amps but his tube adapters are top notch. Plus he is very knowledgeable re compatibility with Woos, is easy to work with and ships quickly.


----------



## Silent One

It is a great photo! The way he staged it, _The Chief looks very intimidating. _I might have to buy it just to hear it.


----------



## john57

I currently still using the double halo getter in my current 3DG4 tube as my primary. If you look carefully on my night picture you can just make out the double halo hovering over the filaments. Having any  getter on the top makes the tube a bit taller. It makes a small difference in the tautness of the sound far smaller than changing to the 5v rectifier tube. Having extra getters may help with the manufacture to have a better vacuum in the tube.  Also I noticed that some 3DG4 tubes seems to have a bit less fatigue over longer periods of time in operation. I noticed that effect a bit more in the 5V3A tube. I do not have a tube test socket to see if I can point what I am observing out on paper. I noticed that Glenn has his "member of the trade" profile approved.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I currently still using the double halo getter in my current 3DG4 tube as my primary. If you look carefully on my night picture you can just make out the double halo hovering over the filaments. Having any  getter on the top makes the tube a bit taller. It makes a small difference in the tautness of the sound far smaller than changing to the 5v rectifier tube. Having extra getters may help with the manufacture to have a better vacuum in the tube.  Also I noticed that some 3DG4 tubes seems to have a bit less fatigue over longer periods of time in operation. I noticed that effect a bit more in the 5V3A tube. I do not have a tube test socket to see if I can point what I am observing out on paper. I noticed that Glenn has his "member of the trade" badge approved.


 

 "MOT?!" Fantastique!!! I was _silently_ pushing for such a thing...





   
  From last Saturday night through the early mornings hours today, the USAF _Mighty_ 596 has left me a bit perplexed. I was just fixin' to share my thoughts on the matter, but focus on business affairs won't allow me proper time to wrap my head around what's happening. Later this afterrnoon/evening without a doubt!


----------



## Xcalibur255

5V3 tubes behave a little weird in the amp if you ask me.  Normally a tube stabilizes and sounds its best after being on a while, but after 2 or 3 hours the 5V3 just starts to sound odd somehow especially if it has been running all day.  I think the tube is just too stressed in the amp, much in the same way a 5U4G would be.
   
  Love the Chief BTW, that is a great name for any tube.  I've actually enjoyed NOT rolling rectifiers in my amp, just one less thing to fuss over and spend money on.  My short bottle side getter Raytheon (Sylvania) serves me faithfully.  I might try an RCA made 3DG4 so I have a reference for comparison though.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> 5V3 tubes behave a little weird in the amp if you ask me.  Normally a tube stabilizes and sounds its best after being on a while, but after 2 or 3 hours the 5V3 just starts to sound odd somehow especially if it has been running all day.  I think the tube is just too stressed in the amp, much in the same way a 5U4G would be.
> 
> Love the Chief BTW, that is a great name for any tube. * I've actually enjoyed NOT rolling rectifiers in my amp, just one less thing to fuss over and spend money on*.  My short bottle side getter Raytheon (Sylvania) serves me faithfully.  I might try an RCA made 3DG4 so I have a reference for comparison though.


 

 NOT rolling recs is a thought I shared in... _until last night! _I'm going to have to share my experience with the USAF-596 rectifier. It was by no means perfect, especially since the caps are still undergoing changes. But of the few attributes that got my attention, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it completely _shattered_ the sonics of the GE 3DG4 rectifier. Of course, source, cables and music player software played a major role in what I heard. I changed a few of those things and any perceived gains vanished, leaving the 3DG4 _preferred._
   
  Just a friendly reminder 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, these changes may not be night & day, but I am human and these changes are sometimes exciting._ _It will be interesting to me to see how things play out with changes to the amp and its platform still to come.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]Amp with my 14N7 Marconi tube. The Marconi is the most powerful driver tube I ever tried to date in my amp. The Marconi can easily overdrive the 7236 power tubes and more attention is needed on gain levels. On the left is a backup Zenith 14N7 tube still in its factory sealed container and it is my “_long distance tube.”  _By the way the 7N7 adapter came from Glenn since my other Chinese 7N7 adapter will not fit in the 12SN7 adapter.[/size]
   
   
  [size=medium]__[/size]


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm starting to wonder if maybe Glenn made the same changes to my amp that have been described by john while it was getting modded.  I'm discovering that the amp really just sounds better all around since the 5998 mod, even if the 5998s are not in the amp.  I threw my Chatham 6080s in today, mostly because I have three of them and I remembered one was a little microphonic so I wanted to weed it out and make a pair of the other two.  I must say they sounded pretty decent.  I'm not a big fan of the 6080 sound in general, the treble somehow manages to sound edgy and wooly at the same time on most of them, but this was pretty pleasant and free of harshness.  They do not have the transparency of the 5998 either, it becomes really evident on heavily layered recordings.  Things turn into soup.  Sometimes it sounds nice actually, I used to be impressed when I heard my WA6 present the soundstage like this, but I know its not a faithful reproduction of the recording so I can't appreciate it as much now. 
   
  More than anything, though, they just sound boring.  There is a flatness and lifelessness, and a lack of dynamic punch, that contrasts pretty strongly against the 5998 sound.
   
  I don't remember liking them much at all the last time I tried them pre-mod so I can only assume the amp itself improved.  They're cool tubes to look at though.


----------



## Silent One

I believe he did and every amp after that. John's amp was new frontier, as well as yours with the "X" mod. Once Glenn likes the changes made, in they go for the rest of the amps. This is my belief based on our conversations anyway. I'm almost certain he'll return to these pages and add clarity.
   
  I inquired last week about him prepping my amp to host the 12SN7 adapter..._ already done! _Also, I'm just returning to the house - will report my findings after dinner on the USAF-596 in the OTL amp... Round 2.


----------



## Silent One

Round 2, United Electronics Company 1957 USAF-596.
   
  Re-installing the '596' Saturday for two hours was fun. But, compared to the 3DG4, the presentation appeared a bit darker in tone. I'm tempted to use the word veiled, but that wouldn't tell the whole story. Because while the '596' was darker in tone, all the details were there without struggle. Thinly veiled? Perhaps... but not my take. I'll stay with darker or just a bit so for now.
   
  Sunday night, pretty much the same with the '596' as it got more play-in. I needed to shake its time in transit off and added a few more hours. Swapped the GE 3DG4 rec back in and things were back to normal - what I've become use to with the rectifier being complimented by the 5998's.
   
  Then I decided to shake things up! I rolled OS'es and music software versions and stuck the USAF-596 back in. First, a quick highlight on what this means. My go-to setup had been the previous version of Amarra (Full) on Snow Leopard with solid state drive. With both rectifiers, this configuration returned a smaller more intimate sound stage (still wide, though). And the 3DG4 rec definitely sounded better with more clarity, balance and a bit more Bass control. 
   
  So, the changes I made at this point was to switch to the current & updated version of Amarra (Full) on Lion with solid state drive. And stuck the _Mighty 596_ back in and... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 mercy! This rectifier is walkin' around with the _heavy set!_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Even King Kong would look down and then stand down! The presentation packed a wallop! BIG Bass, BIG sound - the presentation was HUGE... Bigger-Wider-Taller-Deeper. Even more telling, I was immersed in the sound (more 3D like; detail; spaciousness), more depth than the 3DG4 with this version of playback.
   
  I had favored the previous config because I don't particularly like the extra processing Apple allowed Lion; Snow Leopard does few background processing and thus lower overhead. But the newer version of Amarra was written for Lion not Snow Leopard. And when I placed the 3DG4 back in with the latest of everything, it was far more pedestrian. It was as if the '596' took advantage of what the config had to offer. Was it perfect? No. The amp is still under going changes. But I'm hearing great potential now having experimented.
   
  Equally exciting is the latest OS for Mac is coming in a few months - Mountain Lion. Developers are reporting it will surpass Lion for audio. Snow Leopard also was better than Lion for audio but simply there were trade-offs. Apple giveth then taketh away something else.
   
  All in all, I'm glad experimenting inside the listening room never gets old even when revisiting tweaks and configurations. Early on, I tried the '596' vs 3DG4 but with the older config. Had I stayed the course with simply the previous version, the '596' might have stayed inside the drawer. This is a serious rectifier! Will continue to evaluate it...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]Amp with my 14N7 Marconi tube. The Marconi is the most powerful driver tube I ever tried to date in my amp. The Marconi can easily overdrive the 7236 power tubes and more attention is needed on gain levels. On the left is a backup Zenith 14N7 tube still in its factory sealed container and it is my “_long distance tube.”  _By the way the 7N7 adapter came from Glenn since my other Chinese 7N7 adapter will not fit in the 12SN7 adapter.[/size]
> 
> 
> [size=medium]__[/size]


 

 That thing is huge! And is alright with me...


----------



## wotts

Excitement. Building.
   
   
  With all of these tube choices being tossed around, I am going to need a weekend just to dig through my stuff. Oh the adapters!


----------



## grokit

Quote:Originally Posted by *Silent One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  
  Round 2, United Electronics Company 1957 USAF-596.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by *Silent One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Round 2, United Electronics Company 1957 USAF-596.


 


  This tube is no jokin', baby! It has me eating 'Haagen-Dazs Dulce de Leche' with a Tablespoon! Yup, good manners out the window... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I really need to hear this tube (two) inside the WA5/LE.


----------



## wotts

I have Dean's Black Cherry in the freezer...brb...

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> This tube is no jokin', baby! It has me eating *'Haagen-Dazs Dulce de Leche' *with a Tablespoon! Yup, good manners out the window...


 


 I really need to locate a 596. Perhaps 2-3. I smell a two chassis amp in my future that can benefit from them.


----------



## Silent One

If you or grokit should find a source in passing, I hope you share the info. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After you stock up, of course.


----------



## grokit

By all means, there's a few of us in the hunt. Now MH wants one as well:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/509710/audeze-lcd-2-appreciation-thread/570#post_8298010
   
  He's pretty resourceful, perhaps he will find us some hidden treasure to plunder!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I have Dean's Black Cherry in the freezer...brb...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Already mentioned the two chassis amp to Glenn a few months ago.
  I think it'll be an excellent choice.


----------



## Silent One

Twin chassis design? Separate power supply?


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Twin chassis design? Separate power supply?


 


  Yes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> By all means, there's a few of us in the hunt. Now Peter wants one as well:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/509710/audeze-lcd-2-appreciation-thread/570#post_8298010
> 
> He's pretty resourceful, perhaps he will find us some hidden treasure to plunder!


 


  What, he's taking Pre-Orders?
   
  Silent One: I'd like to order a 1956-57 Glass with Copper posts and...





   
  Because this glass is rare (very?) and I know I'll have more than a single application in the future, I am planning and wisely so.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Yes.


 

 Will your amp be emerging with this design soon?


----------



## rosgr63

SO Glenn has been working on my crazy project a few months now.
  At this stage I don't even know if it'll ever materialize.
  I hope it will.


----------



## Silent One

In light of the new reality, I've taken steps to temper my lust and appreciate what I have. Anything else from Glenn would serve as icing on the cake.


----------



## rosgr63

Very wise as always SO.
  I may end up with no amp, not due to Glenn's fault but mine and my tube choices.
  In my case a two chassis will be easier to ship and will split the weight.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]I am waiting on one more very interesting set of 12SN7 tubes to arrive and I will be finished with the rolling of the 12v tubes. I also planning to try the TS 7236 backups and see if I can tell the difference from the Cetron tube that I am using. So far I am using my EBay credit to pay for the tubes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


[/size]


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Very wise as always SO.
> I may end up with no amp, not due to Glenn's fault but mine and my tube choices.
> In my case a two chassis will be easier to ship and will split the weight.


 






 Me? I got caught dilly dallying! When I originally had the funds, I decided to burn the amp in first, while investing in other things and set the target date of 2 April. And now I can't stop thinking about the "X" mod.


----------



## wotts

Truly I hadn't thought of a two chassis design from Glenn. That would really be awesome. What precipitated my comment was a short private session with musicman59 and his gear this past weekend and realized how much I liked the WA5 again. He has the 596 in his amp, and they were phenomenal. Hmmm.....


----------



## john57

[size=medium]A two chassis design stackable would make more sense for my needs and better use of my limited space and do not have to wonder if the umbilical cord is long enough. My pair of Radiocoin 12SN7 tubes has arrived. I am in the process of cleaning the tube pins a bit with distilled white vinegar instead of scraping the pins. I put in my TS 7236 tubes to verify sound performance. I noticed that while Cetron brought out the tooling from TS for the 7236 tube it is not an exact copy. The TS has what it appear to be lighted bars on top not the inverted “V” wire on top of the Cetron tube. The TS has a larger dynamic punch and wider apparent frequency range. The TS bass is deeper on my Shure 940 headphone. The sound stage is fine but not quite outstanding but I have a few tricks on my sleeve to try.  I continue to enjoy the smoothness and more relax natural presentation of the sound when my amp came back from Glenn.  The detail and the clarity of dialog on video remain as clear as ever. [/size]


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]A two chassis design stackable would make more sense for my needs and better use of my limited space and do not have to wonder if the umbilical cord is long enough. My pair of Radiocoin 12SN7 tubes has arrived. I am in the process of cleaning the tube pins a bit with distilled white vinegar instead of scraping the pins. I put in my TS 7236 tubes to verify sound performance. I noticed that while Cetron brought out the tooling from TS for the 7236 tube it is not an exact copy. The TS has what it appear to be lighted bars on top not the inverted “V” wire on top of the Cetron tube. The TS has a larger dynamic punch and wider apparent frequency range. The TS bass is deeper on my Shure 940 headphone. The sound stage is fine but not quite outstanding *but I have a few tricks on my sleeve to try. * I continue to enjoy the smoothness and more relax natural presentation of the sound when my amp came back from Glenn.  The detail and the clarity of dialog on video remain as clear as ever. [/size]


 

 Tricks up your sleeve? Your timing could not be more perfect - the weekend is upon us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait to share in your discovery, joy and excitement!


----------



## john57

I have concluded my tube rolling of the 12v tubes. The Radiocoin tubes took first place, Marconi 14N7 and Ray 2C50 took second and third place. The only 12v tubes that I was disappointed in was the RCA 12SX7GT twisted heater which seems not to work very well with Glenn voltage doubler adapter.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/479031/6sn7-tube-addicts/2070#post_8309348


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I have concluded my tube rolling of the 12v tubes. The Radiocoin tubes took first place, Marconi 14N7 and Ray 2C50 took second and third place. The only 12v tubes that I was disappointed in was the RCA 12SX7GT twisted heater which seems not to work very well with Glenn voltage doubler adapter.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/479031/6sn7-tube-addicts/2070#post_8309348


 

 When the Maestro returns to the podium and music is once again emanating sweetly from the studio, we can advance the conversation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 May these posts bring a smile to Glenn's face.


----------



## rosgr63

John thanks for the feedback, if you can try a B36, I recon you'll love them.


----------



## Silent One

*Dispatcher: "May I have your attention please... We have a Code Black!... Code Black! Please report to your stations immediately!"*
   
  The listening room has fallen silent - fade to black. Just moments earlier, I began warming up the system and within the first three minutes, loud crackling noises emerged from my cans... both cups! Yes, high anxiety while shutting it down. I inspected all cable connections and then lifting and reinserting all tubes back into their sockets. A few minutes after powering up, the same thing.
   
   
  I had the same experience last night - it was a first. But after removing and reinserting the tubes, everything returned to normal. I'm all set to try out my new Maple platform under both the music server and then the amp for some first impressions. Will post early pix later tonight, as I ordered two actually, but only one shipped for the time being. What I do know at this time is that both the rectifier socket and the left power tube socket arrived very loose; other side and 6SN7 sockets are tight. Also got a screw rolling around the bottom of the chassis 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Better buy a set of small allen wrenches and drop the bottom and quick! 
   
  Will try it again in 10...


----------



## Xcalibur255

John and Glenn are better equipped to help you with this, but it sounds to me like you have a short somewhere.  I wouldn't turn the amp on until you can figure out what and where.  The amp may have had a rough trip in shipping, which is why I'm considering my options when the 45 amp eventually ships out.  For what it costs to send it anyway a small crate or pallet might be worth the extra protection.


----------



## john57

I would agree with Xcalibur255 that the shipping is rough. The amp weight and size just makes it perfect for the box to get ding up. Glenn uses allot of  Styrofoam tubes to keep the amp centered in the box and provide a bit of spring shock absorbing action as well. My box came back from Glenn with three big holes but the amp and tubes were safe. I send SO a PM how to  take the amp apart. Generally I wait 30 mins to make sure that the bleeder resistor has  drained  the high voltage from the caps before taking the amp apart. You remove the bottom two screws on the front and the back leaving the top screws alone and the case on the side will split apart. You need the right tools. I use a Trox bit. IF you have any questions or hesitation wait for Glenn help. My guess you have a nut loose and it is fairly cramed inside.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for jumping in Xcalibur255; john57. Fortunate for me, Glenn instructed me on how to lower the bottom via bottom screws only last month. So, what happened last month? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Remember the aforementioned screw rolling around? It was during my spike-a-pades - broke every screw during removal 'cause I didn't know Glenn used a nut on the other side.
   
  I lack the proper size allen wrench, so off to the store tomorrow! The amp's arrival was secure - well packed. The screw is on me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, re-inserted all the tubes and everything is back to normal. Currently evaluating my single new platform with mixed results. Other configurations to try (many) by the weekend. This is the kind of thing that takes patience...
   
  Will post a few pix before midnight. And again in 10 days when the other platform arrives... not unless I send 'em back first!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Your loose screw may actually be causing the short if it is coming into contact with the right components.  Getting electricity to flow in directions it wasn't supposed to is bad juju, though I'm sure you already know as much.
   
  That my amp has been every bit as stable and reliable as my Woo was is testament to Glenn's skill and knowledge.  Especially considering the tools and facilities available to the former when the latter is a single person working out of his home (I assume anyway).


----------



## rosgr63

Good to know everything is OK.
   
  SO do you use a tube tester to check the tubes before you use them?
   
  Sometimes tubes can develop intermitent faults so make sure your tubes are safe to use.


----------



## Xcalibur255

On a music listening note, sat down and listened to the new Josh Ritter EP.  For the first time we get a Josh Ritter album that is actually well mixed and mastered, and combined with the close mike recording it sounds sublime on the OTL with its usual tube complement.  Funny how even though I have BGRP Tung Sols it is always the Sylvania I return to when I'm done rolling.  It's all in the vocal presentation.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Good to know everything is OK.
> 
> SO do you use a tube tester to check the tubes before you use them?
> 
> Sometimes tubes can develop intermitent faults so make sure your tubes are safe to use.


 

 I thought about getting a tube tester last year after fellow member shipsupt sat down and tested my tubes for me. No sooner than I saved up the money for one a dew months later, I used it to buy more tubes. I had to have the Tung-Sol BGRP's! Now we need to save up for a tester all over again (sigh). 
   
  Anyone know the metric size for the allen wrench? I want to buy a single instead of a whole pack of wrenches. The other three screws broke off inside the hole. The one of concern came out but its counterpart is rolling around inside. Before I started, I just thought they were one-way screws...
   
  I really am glad I bought this amp. I was at the crossroads - either the Woo was goin' to get "Hot-rodded" with Caps & stuff or I was goin' to get another amp.


----------



## rosgr63

Xcalibur255 like you my "reference" tube that I always fall back to is a Sylvania 6SN7W Black Base.
   
  SO the best tube money I've ever spent were on a tube tester.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I would agree with Xcalibur255 that the shipping is rough. The amp weight and size just makes it perfect for the box to get ding up. Glenn uses allot of  Styrofoam tubes to keep the amp centered in the box and provide a bit of spring shock absorbing action as well. My box came back from Glenn with three big holes but the amp and tubes were safe. I send SO a PM how to  take the amp apart. Generally I wait 30 mins to make sure that the bleeder resistor has  drained  the high voltage from the caps before taking the amp apart. You remove the bottom two screws on the front and the back leaving the top screws alone and the case on the side will split apart. You need the right tools. I use a Trox bit. IF you have any questions or hesitation wait for Glenn help. My guess you have a nut loose and it is fairly cramed inside.


 

 Good call, on suggesting I return to the 3DG4 until I straighten things out. The USAF-596 is a bit rare (understatement)! And yes, it is a nut - confirmed by raising; tilting the amp and hearing it roll, baby! Well, that certainly didn't last long... 30 minutes! I wanna _swing_, so back in goes the '596.'


----------



## john57

Silent One
  Regrading Allen wenches I would go to Walmart and look at the screwdriver sets with interchangeable tips and some have allen sizes available. It is usually more cost effective to buy a set rather just one. I also buy tools at Harbor Freight sometimes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Silent One
> Regrading Allen wenches I would go to Walmart and look at the screwdriver sets with interchangeable tips and some have allen sizes available. It is usually more cost effective to buy a set rather just one. I also buy tools at Harbor Freight sometimes.


 


  As a cyclist, I may get lucky and find a size in my bag that fits. I did look but could have easily overlooked it. Whenever I decide to get in there with the amp, it better be dead-n-cold, as opposed to Silent One! I hear these tube amps are no joking baby... _lethal!_


----------



## Silent One

Now that the listening room is once again illuminated, thanks to Xcalibur255, john57 & rosgr63, how 'bout some photographs?


----------



## rosgr63

SO I am surprised you are not using tube dampers!


----------



## Silent One

You and me both! The "To Do List" of tweaks gets shuffled often. musicman59 persuaded me to try some Deunde's last summer. Hmmm, I'll try ordering a few this Friday... unless I get cold feet. Are you featuring dampers on your tubes? It'd be great to see a shot of your rig, can you share a photo? Thanks!


----------



## rosgr63

I have some dampers but I don't use them.
  I'll sort out some photos soon.
   
  How was WAR, did you get the chance to tapp your feet?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I have some dampers but I don't use them.
> I'll sort out some photos soon.
> 
> How was WAR, did you get the chance to tapp your feet?


 
   
  I'll likely do WAR Thursday night or even Friday night. Currently, in full-time play mode shuffling footers, turning spikes and so on. I'm making small progress. Did you rid your tubes of dampers because you didn't like the new presentation? Or they did not perform?


----------



## rosgr63

I have Pearl coolers and dampers but never evaluated them properly.
  My French Tube Guru has introduced me to custom made dampers for 6F8G tubes made of heat shrink material, cheap and very effective.
  I am using it on a NU 6F8G tube.


----------



## Silent One

Now, I've really got to see how you do audio... right! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Fascinating.


----------



## rosgr63

SO, I am not sure if it's right, but one of the many tricks we learn along the way.
  My own personal trick is to use double sided adhesive tape between the equipment feet and the wood custom made rack.
   
  BTW don't forget, when it comes to WAR I said tap your feet and not dance the night away!


----------



## Silent One

You know, I've been sleep deprived and sleep walking the last 48 hours experimenting. Thursday or Friday night should see no tinkering - listening, evaluation and relaxation. Until I get to WAR, then I'm calling my friends up!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Now, I've really got to see how you do audio... right!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ed10 Tamers!


----------



## Silent One

Well presented. Thanks for sharing, rosgr63!


----------



## john57

I just replaced a set of XLR to RCA cable set that was flaking out making poor intermit connection. I then use monoprice 16AWG Cable (Gold Plated) XLR cables. Fort extra measure I put on snap on ferrite cokes on both end of the cable to make sure that none of the RF in the room will induce into the cable. Everthing is peachy so far.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I just replaced a set of XLR to RCA cable set that was flaking out making poor intermit connection. I then use monoprice 16AWG Cable (Gold Plated) XLR cables. Fort extra measure I put on snap on ferrite cokes on both end of the cable to make sure that none of the RF in the room will induce into the cable. Everthing is peachy so far.


 
   
  Have you pressed your amp into service for Pre-amp duty yet? I'm looking forward to testing this out soon.


----------



## john57

I have been using the pre-amp outputs from day one. The way  my amp is built, the input goes to volume control and then to the driver tube which in turn drives the two power tubes. The power tubes drives the headphone jack.The driver tube also drives the pre-amp output as well with the power tubes at the same time. The pre-amp output is more or less permanently connected to my active Tannoy monitors. When I want to use the monitors I just turn the power on to them using a power control center. This way I get the benefit of tube processing to my Tannoy monitors in addition to my headphones. This is a bit different from a loop out or a passthru outputs.


----------



## Silent One

I need 1/4 mono > RCA adapters before I can preview the pre-amp outs to the Pioneer. Maybe this weekend, as I'm curious!


----------



## john57

I am just using RCA to 1/4 cables because my Tannoy monitor has 1/4 jacks. Are you sure that the Pioneer has 1/4 jacks on it? Otherwise male RCA on both ends should work. What model is your Pioneer?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I am just using RCA to 1/4 cables because my Tannoy monitor has 1/4 jacks. Are you sure that the Pioneer has 1/4 jacks on it? Otherwise male RCA on both ends should work. What model is your Pioneer?


 
   
  Allow me to clear things up. My interconnects (secondary pair on other rig) are 1/4 Mono > RCA. I do have the generic AV RCA cables that I could use but my Wireworld Interconnects are of higher quality. I use them for the E-MU 0404 USB Interface. I have the SX-650 by the way, but want a bigger one.


----------



## Silent One

Below, first peek inside my own amp... _second peek with a Black light! _
   

   

   
   
  Finally retrieved that pesky little screw from rolling around. But will leave the cover off overnight - will run to the hardware store and try to find a solution for my spikes which use a larger screw.
   
  I know, I know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Close-up? Black light?? _"What on earth was he looking for?!" _That's a great question!


----------



## rosgr63

NU 6F8G Tamers


----------



## Xcalibur255

Lookin' good SO.  I've seen no need to open my own amp up, but I suspect it looks more or less identical.  The Sprague caps have a good reputation, especially amongst musicians.  Glenn told me once the weakest link is probably the 460uF output coupling caps because they are electrolytic and the audio signal passes directly through them.  Doing film caps is impossible for this function because they aren't made in large enough values, unless you literally daisy chain 10 of them together to get the needed value so it's a necessary evil for an OTL design.  I suspect having 20 caps for output coupling might bring more cons than pros.  This is probably the best cap that could be put in this position, since I don't think it's possible to get black gates in this large a value anymore, if you ever could.


----------



## Silent One

That's exciting to hear, Xcalibur255! I've only recently started learning and paying attention to caps with the acquisition of my Woo. Everyone starts somewhere! Since peering into the soul of the amp through its bottom and seeing the caps, I have an enhanced appreciation for the amp. _And Glenn's effort._
   
  On my way to the hardware store in a couple of hours. I need to either find either a double studded screw-nut solution for the spikes or pressure & heat sensitive adhesive for the spikes. Will use spikes for the time being and see (hear?) how it works out over stocking feet...er... stock footers.
   
  Also on my mind is having a new bottom cover fabricated - heat resistant transparent cover. _I wonder if there'll be any sonic penalties to pay for changing materials._ Hopefully you and others can lend your thoughts on the matter.
   
  Lastly, the amp now has an estimated 179 hours and I believe it to be in full swing or entering in to full swing. Fun up ahead!
   
   
  - _"Don't Be Vague...Ask for SPRAGUE."_


----------



## john57

[size=medium]Some Chinese tube amps do use many caps in parallel. Not every tube amp in the same size format that Glenn makes is identical.  I have larger caps in mine and single choke instead of two and a large size cap on top. I also have two green metal oil caps and a pair of what seems to be French caps as well. I also have one more hot resistor requiring a fan for my amp. Every tube amp made have some sort of a compromise for the designer to make.   Glenn like to use parts that nobody is hardly using meaning that Glenn sometimes finds that the part he had used previous no longer available. If Black Gates are so wonderful, why nobody started making them again? Black Gates have not been made in quite some time. The Black Gate production has stopped in 2006 in Japan. Then Rubycon made the Black Gates for one year and stopped due to disagreements. The remaining stock of Black Gates are getting old.[/size]


----------



## Silent One

I read about the infamous disagreement in 2010. It is most curious... _and leaves more questions than answers!_ Even the Japanese Press at the time couldn't fully report the reasons behind the disagreement. 
   
  As I remember or understand it, it's one thing to have a disagreement with a supplier but I think this one was in-house. A division between shareholders principal simply no longer wanting to be in the business of caps even through licensing. The direction of their Holdings, if you would. As opposed to the supplier not meeting licensing terms or production standards.
   
  Further, we could be sitting on a good ol' fashion novel - juicy tales of blackmail, lies, sex and corporate espionage. 





   
  Unsure why Sprague has faded into the sunset... anyone?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> NU 6F8G Tamers


 
   
  I'd say job well done, considering the NU's notoriety...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]Some Chinese tube amps do use many caps in parallel. Not every tube amp in the same size format that Glenn makes is identical.  I have larger caps in mine and single choke instead of two and a large size cap on top. I also have two green metal oil caps and a pair of what seems to be French caps as well. I also have one more hot resistor requiring a fan for my amp. Every tube amp made have some sort of a compromise for the designer to make.   Glenn like to use parts that nobody is hardly using meaning that Glenn sometimes finds that the part he had used previous no longer available. If Black Gates are so wonderful, why nobody started making them again? Black Gates have not been made in quite some time. The Black Gate production has stopped in 2006 in Japan. Then Rubycon made the Black Gates for one year and stopped due to disagreements. The remaining stock of Black Gates are getting old.[/size]


 
   
  Glenn told me a long time ago he couldn't find the 500uF caps that are in your amp anymore, but the difference is subsonic, below 10hz and I wasn't concerned about it then or now.    I know your amp runs the output tubes a bit harder too, Glenn dialed it back a bit which is why mine and SO's doesn't need any sort of cooling.  Without modification your amp might do almost as well with the 5998 as mine does post mod.  If you've never tried them before I recommend them, IMO a better tube than the 7236 in most ways.
   
  Paralleling 20 caps together seems like asking for trouble as far as reliability is concerned.  The odds of 1 in 20 failing are vastly higher than the odds of 1 in 2 failing after all.  That and I cannot see the difference being all that dramatic without going with a boutique film cap which introduces an enormous cost increase to the amp making the value of the proposition dubious anyway.  I think Glenn chose wisely in this regard.
   
  I was sweating what coupling caps to use in my 45 project until the #10 tube came into the equation as a driver and direct coupling became possible.  The best cap is no cap after all.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Unsure why Sprague has faded into the sunset... anyone?


 
   
  American company.  American made product.  Apparently we don't do those sorts of things here anymore.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  On a slightly less sarcastic note, I imagine they were done in by cheaper overseas competition like many US manufacturing operations were.


----------



## john57

Xcalibur255
   
  I did find that the TS7236 is a better tube than the Cetron 7236. The TS tube gets stronger with time and the Cetron seems to get weaker with time and it is a used tube. Of course I have not tried the 5998 but out of money for the time being. It would be better if somehow I can borrow or trade for the 5998 and make sure that is the better tube for my needs. I do not always agree with some on what is a good sounding tube is. On my amp with the Beyers T70 headphones I noticed much more deep bass with my amp as compared with the same headphone at the RMAF last year with the Woo 5LE. There seems to be a difference between frequency response and power bandwidth response. Also my previous Little Dot tube amp is very thin sounding as compared to the Glenn amp. My Shure 940 which is a very analytic headphone and the highs are as clear as ever on the Glenn amp. The only thing I miss from my amp is a brass tag from Glenn.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Xcalibur255
> 
> I did find that the TS7236 is a better tube than the Cetron 7236. The TS tube gets stronger with time and the Cetron seems to get weaker with time and it is a used tube. Of course I have not tried the 5998 but out of money for the time being. It would be better if somehow I can borrow or trade for the 5998 and make sure that is the better tube for my needs. I do not always agree with some on what is a good sounding tube is. On my amp with the Beyers T70 headphones I noticed much more deep bass with my amp as compared with the same headphone at the RMAF last year with the Woo 5LE. There seems to be a difference between frequency response and power bandwidth response. Also my previous Little Dot tube amp is very thin sounding as compared to the Glenn amp. My Shure 940 which is a very analytic headphone and the highs are as clear as ever on the Glenn amp.* The only thing I miss from my amp is a brass tag from Glenn.*


 
   





 Your last sentence caught my eye... seek the same. I also noticed my Woo had very good sound but thin on Bass. And this is with the Denon D7000 no less! Sure, there was Bass but next to our current OTL amp, it paled as if anemic. My amp now can _shovel_ a bit - as a Denon lover this is good!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Yes as far as electronic components go, very few are made in this county. Sprague was sold in pieces but Vishay brought out the main unit of Srague and like many acquisitions just slowly fade in the sunset. Besides the Atom line, Sprague was well know for its Orange Drop capacitors and the Vitamin Q oil capacitors.


----------



## Silent One

Even after I acquire another tube amp, I'd best continue to enjoy this one and also keep it as a collector. Now I get where Xcalibur255 was coming from in our earlier conversations - I was deciding to buy and if so, when to trade up and he expressed the amp's true value. And suggested I move up without trading up. It hit home last night.


----------



## john57

No need for me to move up. Still have the Little Dot as a secondary device. I also have the Quicksilver for driving big speakers.


----------



## Xcalibur255

So I bought this big bulk quantity of 3DG4 tubes for cheap hoping I would get some interesting variations or brands like the ones John has been talking about.  Instead I got a LOT of completely identical short glass side getter GE tubes, a couple of RCAs which look exactly the same except they have fewer cutouts in the top mica, and a couple of Sylvanias just like the one I already have.  I am disappoint. 
   
  I'm considering offering them to Glenn for his stock to send with new amps he builds.  Better than letting them sit unused in my drawer.
   
  Also, all this talk in the woo thread about vibration absorbers has me hmmmmming quite a bit.  I hate getting into things like these because it becomes one more thing to become obsessed over, but if it truly improves performance..........


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So I bought this big bulk quantity of 3DG4 tubes for cheap hoping I would get some interesting variations or brands like the ones John has been talking about.  Instead I got a LOT of completely identical short glass side getter GE tubes, a couple of RCAs which look exactly the same except they have fewer cutouts in the top mica, and a couple of Sylvanias just like the one I already have.  I am disappoint.
> 
> I'm considering offering them to Glenn for his stock to send with new amps he builds.  Better than letting them sit unused in my drawer.
> 
> *Also, all this talk in the woo thread about vibration absorbers has me hmmmmming quite a bit.*  I hate getting into things like these because it becomes one more thing to become obsessed over, but if it truly improves performance..........


----------



## Silent One

Although the grab bag of tubes didn't payoff, at least you took the shot! And could have scored. But no shot, no score, so I admire the chance taken. And you're certainly doing the right thing. When bought the OTL amp, both you and Glenn understood I didn't have tubes and I was unable to get started on my way. Glenn just happened to have a 3DG4 rec on hand, now he'll have more. Without the kindness and surplus stock from both of you, I would have been shopping but still stranded until purchase.
   
  Vibration control is a jungle! Like other tweaks, what plays in my listening room might have you cursing my name inside your listening room. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I didn't really want to get too far down the rabbit hole with it... or at all! First tried VIABLUE Tri-Absorbers under my Mac, DAC and Woo - results were slight but still an improvement over stocking feet on all components. Then a month ago, I threw spikes under the Mac on the Maple Butcher's block and blew the mid-range wide open! Will try to enhance this further and then focus on the amp and the DAC next. 
   
  No guarantees yet signs of encouragement... so the pursuit continues.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So I bought this big bulk quantity of 3DG4 tubes for cheap hoping I would get some interesting variations or brands like the ones John has been talking about.  Instead I got a LOT of completely identical short glass side getter GE tubes, a couple of RCAs which look exactly the same except they have fewer cutouts in the top mica, and a couple of Sylvanias just like the one I already have.  I am disappoint.
> 
> I'm considering offering them to Glenn for his stock to send with new amps he builds.  Better than letting them sit unused in my drawer.
> 
> Also, all this talk in the woo thread about vibration absorbers has me hmmmmming quite a bit.  I hate getting into things like these because it becomes one more thing to become obsessed over, but if it truly improves performance..........


 
   
  Sorry to hear the batch of 3DG4 tubes were all the same. You noticed previously I have added taller all rubber feet for my amp just to make sure the fan and intake gets plenty of air and to gain a bit more vibration isolation as well. If you are driving monitors or speakers using the pre-amp output it may make more sense to use high performance isolation feet. I can not tell from looking at pictures of all metal isolation feet how well they isolate sound vibrations. For rubber types you wanted just the right density to support the weight. Too stiff the isolation would be poor and too soft you will bottom out the rubber with no isolation. I would like to see
  [size=medium]scientific test on isolation feet and actually measure the isolation with different kinds of feet. There sould be no "magic" involved in this. [/size]


----------



## Silent One

It would be interesting to get numbers back. But that would only be the half of it. Consider, if one is examining isolation feet, one would be wise to consider what surface will lie beneath. The wrong material or the wrong size of each could throw things off.
   
  Footers or no, one of the best things Xcalibur255 could do in my view, is to isolate his gear from the glass top; glass surface of the table/desk. Glass doesn't have the best resonating properties, but has a lovely and lively sound when dropped onto a hard surface from distance, like a drinking glass... ka-chink! 
   
  Your density and stiffness values _are spot on._


----------



## john57

I get your point that sometimes it may be better to change the surface or put on a heavy overlay to damp the surface vibration in the first place. Putting sand in hollow support posts may help in some cases.


----------



## Silent One

For me, the sheer staggering and dizzying amount of combinations for setup and playback is stimulating! Though, shopping and sourcing are a part of this, they could bring enough excitement on their own as you start out to make changes or create anew. This hobby is very good for our brains.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Yeah, if there is any truth to vibration affecting sound then I have nowhere to go but up.  When I place my hand on the amp I can actually feel the vibration that is coming from the PC tower transmitted all the way from the other side of the desk.  It sounds good this way, so I'm scared of messing with anything at this point.  Whenever I mess with something after becoming satisfied I always wish I hadn't.  Take 30 minutes ago for example.  I had said I wouldn't rectifier roll but curiousity, as it often does with cats like myself, got the better of me.  So I threw one of the GE tubes in (branded Philco) to try out.  Sounded pretty nice actually, colder with a slightly artificial lower midrange but seemed to have slightly better bass control and soundstage width/imaging over the Sylvania tube.  I went to take it out and properly clean it and when I did one of the socket contacts partially came out with it.  Clearly not normal.  I pushed it back in and re-checked and everything continues to work properly but how I will be worried about that socket from today on.  Hence I wish I had just left the original tube in there and not messed with it.  My concern is it is the solder connection that is keeping that socket piece from coming all the way out, which is going to stress that solder every time a tube is pulled out.  When it costs a hundred bucks to send the amp back for a repair I'd rather not break it in the first place.
   
  If it DOES break those sockets will get swapped out for teflon 6-pin clamp sockets like the kind Woo uses, at my expense of course, and it will be worth it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The 45 amp, for the record, won't be sitting on the computer desk.  I'm pretty sure that would end badly for the glass.  It will have its own piece of furniture, probably something akin to a wooden filing cabinet so I can store the tubes in the drawer, away from everything else a bit.  I'm thinking that alone is a big improvement in vibration isolation, but the question of what kind of feet to have installed on the 45 amp has crossed my mind already.  This is one of those areas where I have no knowledge, having never sought any on the subject, so I'll be seeking advice on at some point from you guys.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Yeah, if there is any truth to vibration affecting sound then I have nowhere to go but up.  When I place my hand on the amp I can actually feel the vibration that is coming from the PC tower transmitted all the way from the other side of the desk.  It sounds good this way, so I'm scared of messing with anything at this point.  Whenever I mess with something after becoming satisfied I always wish I hadn't.  Take 30 minutes ago for example.  I had said I wouldn't rectifier roll but curiousity, as it often does with cats like myself, got the better of me.  So I threw one of the GE tubes in (branded Philco) to try out.  Sounded pretty nice actually, colder with a slightly artificial lower midrange but seemed to have slightly better bass control and soundstage width/imaging over the Sylvania tube.  I went to take it out and properly clean it and when I did one of the socket contacts partially came out with it.  Clearly not normal.  I pushed it back in and re-checked and everything continues to work properly but how I will be worried about that socket from today on.  Hence I wish I had just left the original tube in there and not messed with it.  My concern is it is the solder connection that is keeping that socket piece from coming all the way out, which is going to stress that solder every time a tube is pulled out.  When it costs a hundred bucks to send the amp back for a repair I'd rather not break it in the first place.
> 
> If it DOES break those sockets will get swapped out for teflon 6-pin clamp sockets like the kind Woo uses, at my expense of course, and it will be worth it.


 
   
  The ol' _"Leaving well enough alone"_ experience, yes? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Went through it yet again, this past weekend! Last month, spikes returned huge gains. Small trade offs but huge nonetheless. Striving for more upside, each week this entire month has seen me trying to dig out of a hole - each additional tweak took things south. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Because I'm familiar with the baseline of what the system sounded like before the first tweak, I reversed everything back the the very first tweak which was positive. If it hadn't been, I would have completely returned to the stock presentation.
   
  Now I have an additional couple of tweaks coming Thursday and 8 days from now, both platform related. The amp will get its very on Maple platform and the Mac has an additional tweak to address EMI/RFI and mounting onto the platform. May move to bigger brass footers here 30 days later on the Mac. Unsure of what I'll hear at this time but very excited and looking forward to something!


----------



## john57

Xcalibur255
   
  [size=medium]Is the 45 project is to drive speakers or both? The tube sockets that Glenn is using are the two pinchers type. Glenn did replace my rectifier socket. Normally the 3DG4 has only five pins out of eight and the five pin is just a dummy. Only four are needed in 3DG4 tube like most rectifier tubes. With just five pins in the socket the rectifier tube is always going to feel a bit loose as compared to the power tube that has all eight pins engaged in the socket. Personally I like the Teflon sockets but it requires that the pins to be fairly clean because of the larger surface area of the clamps that can be pushed out of the way by debris on the tube pin. The pincher type is narrower and has more bite into the surface of the tube pin. The pincher could locked on to the pin and could be the case with you. All my other sockets are staying good and tight. SO let me know if this info is useful.[/size]


----------



## Silent One

My own amp shipped/arrived with the rectifier socket loose; left-side 6AS7 socket loose. The right-side 6AS7 socket and 6SN7 socket remains tight. That the two sockets are close and both on the left-side has me curious some...


----------



## rosgr63

I actually use socket savers on my amps as I do a lot of rolling, tube evaluation.


----------



## john57

I use a screw in socket saver on my tube tester. That type is a bit more of a challenge to try on my amp due to limted space.


----------



## Silent One

I tend to roll little. But the loose sockets are out of the gate.


----------



## rosgr63

John I also use the screw type savers on my testers.
  For my amps I use an octal to octal adapter.
  You can see it on my NU photo, it's the empty slot on the left.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Xcalibur255
> 
> [size=medium]Is the 45 project is to drive speakers or both? The tube sockets that Glenn is using are the two pinchers type. Glenn did replace my rectifier socket. Normally the 3DG4 has only five pins out of eight and the five pin is just a dummy. Only four are needed in 3DG4 tube like most rectifier tubes. With just five pins in the socket the rectifier tube is always going to feel a bit loose as compared to the power tube that has all eight pins engaged in the socket. Personally I like the Teflon sockets but it requires that the pins to be fairly clean because of the larger surface area of the clamps that can be pushed out of the way by debris on the tube pin. The pincher type is narrower and has more bite into the surface of the tube pin. The pincher could locked on to the pin and could be the case with you. All my other sockets are staying good and tight. SO let me know if this info is useful.[/size]


 
   
  Headphones only.  I'm sure it could have speaker taps if desired, especially running 2A3s, but it hasn't been brought up and I've made it expensive enough as it is.  It does keep crossing my mind, but I'm trying not to make it any more complex than it already is.  The trouble with asking for a custom chassis that is going to be fabricated by somebody else is if any little detail is forgotten we have to own it and live with it so the fewer details on the table the better I'm thinking.
   
  What I mean about my rectifier socket is one of the pinchers is actually pulling out of the socket itself, which is not supposed to happen.  I sand my tube pins with steel wool to take the friction out of them sliding against the socket pinchers, along with deoxit and alcohol cleaning so I've never had an issue with contact in teflon sockets or this style either for that matter.  The sanding makes a world of difference in how smoothly tubes go into any socket I've found. 
   
  So you're saying that maybe the pincher that is coming out is the dummy connection that doesn't actually have an electrical connection?  If so then that would be a load off my mind knowing I'm not at risk of an electrical failure in the socket.  I wonder if maybe it is used for the 5V tubes though, since that pin is one position off if I recall.
   
  I must say I think I hear what you are talking about with the taller bottle 3DG4 tubes having a more open sound.  I think I hear it too now that I have a tall Sylvania to compare with the short version I've always used.  I'm not sure how having more air space in the bottle can affect a rectifiers ability to deliver B+ but the ear hears what it hears I guess.


----------



## Silent One

Curious, I'm going to have to give the tall 3DG4 a listen. What's the "Go to" source for buying these bad boys?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've never found the really tall style like John has.  I got a couple of Sylvanias branded Philco Starlight (love that btw) which are just slightly taller than the shorty Raytheon I always use.  It's clearly sounds different, both good and bad.  Everything got a little more relaxed, and the soundstage pushed out further as did vocals.  Not sure I like that last change, but it doesn't seem to quite have the same energy or resolution either.  It also became a bit more laid back in terms of treble energy.  Nice, but I found myself missing a couple of aspects of the old presentation.  Perhaps I had just gotten accustomed to it.
   
  Assuming this tube is new maybe the detail will come back, but it may also be the lack of any edge that's just making me think there is detail missing.  I noted hearing some things differently in the music I tried last night, not sure if it was new details or just details put out in front of me that are usually further back in the mix but it was clearly presented in a different way with some music.  This tube didn't have any new tube harshness issues either, though it came in its original box and appeared nos.


----------



## john57

My current 3DG4 tall tube is made by GE. GE has made different getter versions. EBay is usually where I find them since I need to look at the pictures to see if the tube is different from the standard issue. You may find Zenith labeled tubes that are tall.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I often wonder if I'm looking at the same eBay as some of the folks here.


----------



## john57

My specially marked 3DG4 "The Chief" came from EBay. One trick that you can use on Ebay is to use the save search function on EBay so that is a new item is added and match the search results you can get a E-mail message on it.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> My French Tube Guru has introduced me to custom made dampers for 6F8G tubes made of heat shrink material, cheap and very effective.
> I am using it on a NU 6F8G tube.


 
   
  Really? Please elaborate!


----------



## rosgr63

They are easy to make and very cheap.
  They act like huge tube dampers and make the tube less microphonic, more rigid.


----------



## Silent One

Filling up the rack!_ S_econd 4" Maple platform arrived today.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice!
  Happy Listening, don't forget to go to bed sometime....................


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Very nice!
> Happy Listening, don't forget to go to bed sometime....................


 
   
  Thanks and yes I am sleepwalking through my Friday. Hopefully, I'll sleep soundly from 0600 hrs through 12 noon Saturday morning. Got a few more things I'd like to try. 200 hours on the OTL amp is finally within reach - now have 194 hours. 
   
  Also, a fellow member will be loaning me 600 ohm Beyer DT-990's to audition briefly. No, they won't be replacing my D7000's. But I'm keenly interested in their performance at 600 ohms with the OTL. Glenn measured 40 ohms output impedance - and suggests 20 ohms (roughly) with the "X" mod. If the sound is decent, I may move to get a pair or that one to compliment the Denon's simply to satisfy the whole current/voltage matter. 
   
  I'd rather add resistance (a lot!) to the Denon D7000 if it wouldn't harm playback quality.


----------



## hodgjy

Those maple blocks are gorgeous!
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Filling up the rack!_ S_econd 4" Maple platform arrived today.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Those maple blocks are gorgeous!


 
   
  Thanks, hodgjy. We're striving on a shoe-string budget. Though, only at half tweak, their addition have been positive. Would like to try some brass footers next to round out the tweak.


----------



## Silent One

Update on my fantastique custom built OTL amp, complimented by:
   
  Tung-Sol 5998's
  Tung-Sol BGRP VT-231
  United Electronics Company USAF-596.
   
  Currently, I have platform, footers, spikes and headphone evaluations going on inside the listening room. Yesterday, I brought in the Beyer DT-990 headphone @ 600 ohms for a listen - thanks, snapple10. I wanted to shine more light underneath output impedance matching. I started this journey with an output of 40 ohms for the amp and 25 ohm headphones - Denon D7000.
   
  The amp was originally voiced using Senn HD650's @ 300 ohms, perhaps a match made in heaven. Glenn says his HD800's share in this joy as well. I did give the HD600's (re-cabled) a run and it sounds good. Wouldn't be my first choice but would definitely keep it in the rotation with satisfaction. 
   
  Back to the Beyer's. My focus was on the voltage/current swing with the pairings between low & high impedance cans and the amp. Despite the two cans sounding different, I wanted to know how badly the Denon's were under performing, rather than focus on the sound signature of the higher impedance cans.
   
  I still have some listening to do under different scenarios... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 because I can. But there's something uniquely odd about both the amp and the Denon's! Both continue to behave in a manner not expected. Glenn's build is handling low impedance cans seemingly better than a commercial OTL build I'm familiar with when paired to 25 ohm Denon's. And the Denon's seem to be handling itself with the higher output impedance from this OTL amp as well as my lower output impedance solid state gear.
   
  Now having listen to cans @ both 300 ohms & 600 ohms, the Denon's despite being @ 25 ohms isn't conceding anything in a big way. And still sounds good... who knew?! I am not suggesting ALL low impedance cans will fair well. But Glenn did confirm the 32 ohm Grado's were fine and he didn't expect them to. 
   
  In summary, so readers won't run down the street with the wrong impression, these findings were not about whether there are better cans to be had over my Denon's. Rather, they confirm that the Denon's are not under performing with the OTL amp in contrasts to higher impedance cans or solid state pairings. What other cans may sound better with this fantastique amp is another focus... another time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think in the end numbers are just numbers.  Glenn is a talented designer and his circuit performs exceptionally well.  There is much more to having a sense of "drive" or "ease" in the music than just having power or matching impedance or having a good damping factor.  Some of the worst measuring audio systems are considered to be the best sounding ones.  I think the ear of the designer combined with a complete comprehension of the electrical/engineering factors that are influencing the output combined together is where the magic comes from and our amps show the results of that.


----------



## Silent One

Had I been shopping by numbers alone, I would have short-changed myself. I enjoy having an open mind... and encouragement from my peers.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Update on my fantastique custom built OTL amp, complimented by:
> 
> Tung-Sol 5998's
> Tung-Sol BGRP VT-231
> ...


 
   
   
  Ooo... thanks for the comparisons. And thank you for all the eye candy above. I love it!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think in the end numbers are just numbers.  Glenn is a talented designer and his circuit performs exceptionally well.  There is much more to having a sense of "drive" or "ease" in the music than just having power or matching impedance or having a good damping factor.  Some of the worst measuring audio systems are considered to be the best sounding ones.  I think the ear of the designer combined with a complete comprehension of the electrical/engineering factors that are influencing the output combined together is where the magic comes from and our amps show the results of that.


 
   
  RudiStor amps are not considered the best designs.
  To me they sound excellent.
   
  I don't assess equipment by numbers either.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Ooo... thanks for the comparisons. And thank you for all the eye candy above. I love it!


 
   
  It is my hope, that later this spring/summer, we'll see photographs of new builds. And/or photographs of familiar builds with new tweaks and accessories around them. I hope to have a hand in each.


----------



## wotts

I think I may take a vacation day when my amp comes due. I'll be sure to take many pictures. I might have to order one of those gorgeous blocks for it to sit on too. Hmmm....


----------



## Silent One

Sunday will be spent deciding to follow through with the third installment (4" Maple platform) or get three Brass footers (3"x3" @ 6 lbs each).


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I think I may take a vacation day when my amp comes due. I'll be sure to take many pictures. I might have to order one of those gorgeous blocks for it to sit on too. Hmmm....


 
   
  You are becoming an addict fast, watch it!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I think I may take a vacation day when my amp comes due. I'll be sure to take many pictures. I might have to order one of those gorgeous blocks for it to sit on too. Hmmm....


 
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You are becoming an addict fast, watch it!


 
   
  Watch it! And then watch for those audio influences lurking in the shadows...


----------



## rosgr63

So many tube temptations, so little will power!


----------



## hodgjy

Absolutely.  Things on paper don't always translate to the real world.  That's why we play the Super Bowl every year.  We can add amino acids, phospholipids, and nucleic acids into a test tube, but we can't make it alive.  Despite our best knowledge, we don't know how.  You have to have that emergent property of breathing life into it.  Same with audio.  Some pairs of gear just have that emergent property that breathes life into it, which we can't fully explain.  All we can do, and should do, is enjoy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





silent one said:


> In summary, so readers won't run down the street with the wrong impression, these findings were not about whether there are better cans to be had over my Denon's. Rather, they confirm that the Denon's are not under performing with the OTL amp in contrasts to higher impedance cans or solid state pairings. What other cans may sound better with this fantastique amp is another focus... another time.


 
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think in the end numbers are just numbers.


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Had I been shopping by numbers alone, I would have short-changed myself. I enjoy having an open mind... and encouragement from my peers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Absolutely.  Things on paper don't always translate to the real world.  That's why we play the Super Bowl every year.  We can add amino acids, phospholipids, and nucleic acids into a test tube, but we can't make it alive.  Despite our best knowledge, we don't know how.  You have to have that emergent property of breathing life into it.  Same with audio.  Some pairs of gear just have that emergent property that breathes life into it, which we can't fully explain.  All we can do, and should do, is enjoy.


 
   





 Well stated.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> So many tube temptations, so little will power!


 
   
   
  Discipline - I was doing rather well on this front. Until we met at Cafe 6SN7!


----------



## rosgr63

*X2*
   
  SO how did your last session go?
  Any more interesting findings?


----------



## Silent One

My recent sessions have been FIVRE free. Needed to focus/listen out for changes with platform and footers for DAC. So, I needed to return to a baseline for familiarity. Swapping them back in later this week to get acquainted, while I await my newest 4" Maple platform arriving in two weeks.
   
  Also, while I knew my front-end (music server) would be highly sensitive to footers and surfaces, I thought the DAC would be less so, followed by the amp. Surprisingly, the DAC is just as sensitive to changes as my music server. Thought I was going to save money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, I decided to invest in new Maple and eventually Brass footers in June/July for the DAC as well.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks SO.
  Unless you have a baseline established it's pointless to try new tubes.


----------



## Silent One

It's going to be a fun week/weekend running through pairings like a tournament. I know what they sound like with the 1st team - the second FIVRE definitely needs some hours - but curious to how the two will sound when I pair them with the 3DG4 rec and different power tubes.
   
  I've a question for the fine membership here: anyone have a good reference for adapters outside of our own designer? I was thinking of having someone receive my adapter for the USAF-596 and duplicate it, so I could get one out to those on my next 596 Tour or a fellow member or two that recently bought their recs but have no adapters. Or better still, having a nice ceramic/teflon adapter built for myself.


----------



## rosgr63

SO I need some adapters made and have posted in the DIY Forum for help but I have not been lucky yet.
  If you do get somebody who will be willing to build adapters please let me know.


----------



## Silent One

I've been looking for a DIY entry the past 12 months... could this be it? Of course, I would need some advising but, if push comes to shove, I might wanna have a go at this specific adapter for this particular rectifier _(The Mighty 596)._


----------



## rosgr63

My request was posted 10 days ago http://www.head-fi.org/t/607553/tube-adapters
   
  It's a new type of adapter for testing a new family of tubes that will give the 6SN7's a hard time.
  Meantime I am waiting for the parts to arrive.
   
  When I get the adapters built and carry out some tests I will introduce the new family of tubes to Head-Fi.
   
  Mean time form independent tests from a friend in France and another in Australia the results are very encouraging.


----------



## grokit

SO, 2359glenn would probably be kind enough to give you a parts list? He mentioned that he used the last of the ones he had when he made mine.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> My request was posted 10 days ago http://www.head-fi.org/t/607553/tube-adapters
> 
> It's a new type of adapter for testing a new family of tubes that will give the 6SN7's a hard time.
> Meantime I am waiting for the parts to arrive.
> ...


 
   
  This is great to hear! I wonder what series of tubes the ones you're working mirror the closest? Above, when I ask _"Could this be it?" _






 I am speaking to a possible opportunity for me to gain a foot-in-the-door to DIYing, not a particular post. 
   
  Ah, but look what my post fleshed out! Do I have the right amp to beta test with the others?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> SO, 2359glenn would probably be kind enough to give you a parts list? He mentioned that he used the last of the ones he had when he made mine.


 
   
  Yes, he would. But I wouldn't want to burden him with trivial matters through his period of restoration. When the opportunity arises, I'll ask though. Did you receive your adapter?


----------



## grokit

Sure did, the same day my tube came in!

Now I need another 596...


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is great to hear! I wonder what series of tubes the ones you're working mirror the closest? Above, when I ask _"Could this be it?" _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes it's fully compatable to the 6SN7 less microphonic, much cheaper.................
  Now you got me talking, SO you're so bad!
   
  Once I get the adapters built you'll be the first US based Head-Fier  to test them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Sure did, the same day my tube came in!
> Now I need another 596...


 
   
  Though I can be quiet sometimes (discreet), 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you know I got your back, baby! Bought one tonight, as a matter of fact - NOS 1956. I've been doing some ground work on this glass the past few weeks and have turned up a number of surpluses. Will not disclose any quantities or prices anymore - PM only. It's still a very rare tube but I have been shaking the Military surplus coconut tree. And gotten hit over the head with a many of exorbitant coconuts from brokers. Next time I'm shown insane mark-ups, I'm going to ask _"Is it ok if I fax your invoice to the IRS?"  _Failing to report income, are we? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But we gotta problem, grokit! Word has gotten out about the attributes of the _Mighty 596. _While researching the tube in April, I came across a few sources who only learned about the tube through web postings recently... OURS. Dealers and suppliers don't give a rip about us, rather, if there's a Buck or a Grand to be made by another's interest, so be it! We have slowly awakened the community by our enthusiasm (I'm guilty in this regard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). Just a couple of weeks ago, a Chinese collector just bought an entire lot of 596's... all of 'em. Our known Hong Kong seller had 'em in his shop for years with no interest from anyone. 
   
  So no, I'm not being paranoid as I am being cautious - why drive up the price of something we want ourselves? I suggest we discuss pricing, availability and location behind closed doors in PM's. This week, I'll help track down a backup for you.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Yes it's fully compatable to the 6SN7 less microphonic, much cheaper.................
> Now you got me talking, SO you're so bad!
> 
> Once I get the adapters built you'll be the first US based Head-Fier  to test them.


 
   
  Intrigued. And highly interested! Much more interesting could be the story of how this all came about. A Private Message, perhaps?


----------



## wotts

I had a lead on a single 596, but that fell through. I'll continue to search for this elusive monster!
   
  As for the adapters, I'm going to look into what it takes to make them. I have a number of manufacturing resouces available to me and might be able to build them. If I recall correctly, the pins were hard to find, but I'm getting ahead of myself...


----------



## rosgr63

SO I was told about it by Bruno my French Tube Guru and dear friend.
   
  It's not my discovery but his, I can't say much more for now in public.
   
  I am not going to have the prices pushed sky high before we stock up first.
  So it might be a good idea if we keep this private for the minute.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I had a lead on a single 596, but that fell through. I'll continue to search for this elusive monster!
> 
> As for the adapters, I'm going to look into what it takes to make them. I have a number of manufacturing resouces available to me and might be able to build them. If I recall correctly, the pins were hard to find, but I'm getting ahead of myself...


 
   
  The pins are sometimes hard to find. Can be frustrating to source as witnessed by my own requests for adapters. Now that I know your interest in the elusive monster, perhaps I can help - I know where they lunch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Even monsters gotta eat! Sending a PM...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> SO I was told about it by Bruno my French Tube Guru and dear friend.
> 
> It's not my discovery but his, I can't say much more for now in public.
> 
> ...


 
   





 Without question! It's akin to shooting one's own foot from shooting off one's mouth.


----------



## rosgr63

SO Nicely put! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Now I am counting on the first part of your name!
   
  Wotts do you mean you might be able to find somebody who can build adapters?


----------



## Silent One

wotts was suggesting himself, actually. He's skilled and has access to resources. Not trying to give him up or anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But he might be able to help you.
   
  And if it helps to know, _I'll be so silent, you'll be suspicious! _


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> And if it helps to know, _I'll be so silent, you'll be suspicious! _


 
   
  No, I don't like that, no way!
  We want you active and talking.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> No, I don't like that, no way!
> We want you active and talking.


 
   
  You're right. If I'm to provide feedback...


----------



## Silent One

Bought a NOS 1956 USAF-596 last night. Just received shipping confirmation - going out the door Monday! I feel secure now having a backup!


----------



## grokit

silent one said:


> I got your back, baby!






silent one said:


> Bought a NOS 1956 USAF-596 last night. Just received shipping confirmation - going out the door Monday! I feel secure now having a backup!




Congrats, and thanks


----------



## Silent One

I hope to acquire a third and an adapter, and send it out on tour. There are some members who'll deserve to hear this rec but won't have the opportunity, so I'm stepping in. My way of giving back to the audio community. Of course, if they own WA5's, then we got a dilemma...


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> SO Nicely put!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I think I might be able to build them myself. I just need to figure out what all goes into them. From what I understand, it's a few passive components, wire and a grid cap. Figuring out what tubes can work where requires reading the tube sheets. To date, I haven't bothered, relying on vast amount of knowledge available here. But I do have a local tube guru that would be willing to teach me what I need to know. Beyond that, I know how to solder, perform light machining and weld. I can't imagine it's too hard.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I think I might be able to build them myself. I just need to figure out what all goes into them. From what I understand, it's a few passive components, wire and a grid cap. Figuring out what tubes can work where requires reading the tube sheets. To date, I haven't bothered, relying on vast amount of knowledge available here. But I do have a local tube guru that would be willing to teach me what I need to know. Beyond that, I know how to solder, perform light machining and weld. I can't imagine it's too hard.


 
   
  Nice to be clever with your hands.
  The ones I am actually talking about require rewiring of the pin connections, no other parts involved but one socket going inside an octal base.


----------



## wotts

I'll see what I can find in the way of bases and parts.
   
   
  In the mean time, would anyone like to share so photos of the lovely Glenn amps?


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I'll see what I can find in the way of bases and parts.
> 
> 
> In the mean time, would anyone like to share so photos of the lovely Glenn amps?


 
   
   
  Hi wotts, thanks.
  I have already ordered the parts, waiting for delivery.
  I am looking for a DIY person to put them together.
   
  Posted a photo of the tube under tests in the 6SN7 Tube Addicts thread.


----------



## Silent One

( 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _Silent One noisily and hastily races toward 6SN7 thread._..)


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> (
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No need, as promised you'll be the first Head-Fier to test in and give us your opinion.


----------



## Silent One

Heard from Glenn this morning. Says "Hello" and "Thank you for the card" from all of us.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for the update SO.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Heard from Glenn this morning. Says "Hello" and "Thank you for the card" from all of us.


 
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Good to hear!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Sure did, the same day my tube came in!
> *Now I need another 596...*


 
   
  Questions? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got answers! Wait, what was the question again? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does '596' make it a math question? *O*, now I remember... PM sent.


----------



## Silent One

My NOS 1956 United Electronics USAF-596 arrived today at lunch time! Will proceed with burn-in later tonight. Although, it was purchased as backup, by all appearances,  the OTL amp looks delighted all the same.


----------



## Groundzero

My 596 came today, it certainly is interesting looking! I can't wait to find an adapter and give it a good listening.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Heh, sooner or later I'll wind up being the only person who hasn't heard this tube.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Heh, sooner or later I'll wind up being the only person who hasn't heard this tube.


 
   
  Lucky for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sending the _Mighty 596_ back out on tour...tomorrow! I'm going "Postal" - Priority Mail. How would you like to receive it: Delivery Confirmation or Signature Guarantee?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





groundzero said:


> My 596 came today, it certainly is interesting looking! I can't wait to find an adapter and give it a good listening.


 
   
   
_I think she's a looker...and a keeper!_
   




   
   
  In a couple of weeks, if you're not in receipt I'll do one of two things: clone the adapter or loan mine out to you for a bit.


----------



## grokit

"High altitude version of 1641"

I went for it. 

Will it work 

That was impulsive.

I can already see that it has stubs instead of antenna connectors...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> "High altitude version of 1641"
> 
> I went for it.
> Will it work
> ...


 
   
  I don't know enough about tubes electrically, but the sheet does state "Similar." I really do think you're gonna need an adapter, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I recall about 1.5 years ago, a few Woo members trying out the RK60, which Glenn had to make adapters for. Clayton has both the USAF-596 & RK60. Shoot him a PM for his thoughts.


----------



## grokit

I bought it because someone had already bought the other one, and it seems even scarcer than the 596. Now trying to get out of it lol, I think it will work but I don't want to have to chase down another adapter. Although my adapter would probably work if I modified it to accept multiple "pigtails" with banana plugs. Anyways I offered the guy $5 if he wants it to avoid return shipping.

edit: :rolleyes:


----------



## Xcalibur255

My usual source for data sheets does not have one for the 1641.  It is suspiciously absent between the entries for the 1640 and 1642 (neither of which are rectifiers).


----------



## Xcalibur255

http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-1641.html


----------



## Silent One

To my knowledge, Clayton SF has the RK60 with adapters by 2359glenn and inquired about it over the weekend. A good ol' fashion shootout - RK60 meets USAF-596! Awaiting his reply.


----------



## Silent One

This past Sunday night saw the passing of Donald "Duck" Dunn. Famed Bass Player of Booker T. & The M.G.'s and the fabulous Blues Brothers. He was giggin' in Tokyo and passed away in his sleep at the hotel. 
   
  Saturday night through Sunday night, saw me rollin' tubes in-n-out like no other. So, in the spirit of Donald Dunn and the film The Blues Brothers... "Rawhide!" (short excerpt)
   
   
  Rollin' Rollin' Rollin'...
   
  Move 'em on, head 'em up, 
 Head 'em up, move 'em out, 
 Move 'em on, head 'em out Rawhide! 
 Set 'em out, ride 'em in 
 Ride 'em in, let 'em out, 
 Cut 'em out, ride 'em in Rawhide. 
   
  Rawhide!
   
   
  Anyway, while on the heels of "Rollin'," the entire weekend brought me full-circle, tube rolling. To-date, my fav combo for the Silver Hawk is:
   
  Rectifier: USAF-596
  Power:    TS-5998
  Drive:      TS-BGRP VT-231/6SN7GT
   
  I didn't bother taking notes, as a careful study would have taken me two months not two nights. Besides, I'm already familiar with each tube but not all of the possible pairings. This is what the weekend exercise was about, trying more combos. Briefly, I substituted one tube at a time to have a chance to perform with the remaining two tubes preferred by me:
   
  Rectifier:  Sub > GE 3DG4; GE 5V3; Dumont 5V3; 
  Power:     TS-5998
  Drive:       TS-BGRP
   
  Rectifier:  USAF-596
  Power:     Sub > Sovtek 6AS7G; Sylvania 6AS7G
  Drive:        TS-BGRP
   
  Rectifier:   USAF-596
  Power:      TS-5998
  Drive:         Sub > FIVRE 6SN7GT Brown base; Raytheon 6SN7W
   
  Then toward the latter part of Sunday night, just mixin' and matchin'. After all of that listening, the combination I started out with, is the very combination I ended with - it is my preferred tube compliment for now.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for the update SO.
   
  Which FIVRE is this, the Brown or Black Base one?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Thanks for the update SO.
> 
> Which FIVRE is this, the Brown or Black Base one?


 
   
  Good eye! I failed to make that distinction, if only because the Brown base sounds better than the Black base. However, you did offer the Black base just needed some hours. Knowing this in advance, I skipped the Black base for this exercise. Will put some hours on it and revisit the scene.


----------



## Groundzero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In a couple of weeks, if you're not in receipt I'll do one of two things: clone the adapter or loan mine out to you for a bit.


 
   
  I wouldn't feel right depriving you of your adapter. I'm content to wait for a clone or similar, but thanks!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





groundzero said:


> I wouldn't feel right depriving you of your adapter. I'm content to wait for a clone or similar, but thanks!


 
   
   






 Deprive? The audio community is full of it - electricity and spirit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let's see what happens...


----------



## Silent One

Just learned Donna Summer passed away. My listening session tonight will be Donna Dominated. May my sista rest in peace.


----------



## rosgr63

That's a big shame, I still have some of her vinyl LP's and 12inch singles.
   
  I will play some of her music too.


----------



## Silent One

In times past, I heard a good number of high-end gear with some of her tracks used to demo, Tube and Solid state alike. If I weren't booked until 23:00 tonight, I'd get right on it! 
   
  Surprisingly, I have yet to sit down and hear Donna at length with my somewhat new OTL amp, so that makes tonight's session and its mention in this thread, relevant.


----------



## Silent One

Finally received my Maple platform for the DAC today. Look forward to re-evaluating the spikes and stock footers this week. My initial out-of-the-box impressions are mixed. The mid-range has been slightly emphasized a bit more than with the 2" Maple block. But now my presentation is less dynamic. 
   
  The system hits the hardest with stock footers underneath the DAC, but sounds the least open in the middle. With spikes on the 2" Maple block, the presentation seems to land in between - dynamic and wide open. Spikes on the 4" Maple block emphasizes the middle a little bit more, but less dynamic. 
   
  Both the amp and Mac mini music server responded to the spikes on 4" Maple blocks favorably. The DAC seems to be protesting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, we gonna work it out!


----------



## Silent One

Keeping the OTL amp busy, while I research...


----------



## hodgjy

What are you researching today?
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Keeping the OTL amp busy, while I research...


----------



## Silent One

Greetings hodgjy! Just swapped in a new rack before sunrise and it needs further tweaking. So, I'm examining resonances, vibrations, materials ect. The old desk stood about 32" high. The new coffee table is 16" in height. To compensate, I stacked it on a makeshift shelf about 16" in height, but stability is a problem.
   
  Haven't gone to bed yet. But after i wake up to some good grub, many things will appear a whole lot clearer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's been fun overnight, by the way.


----------



## hodgjy

I certainly admire your golden ears.  I wish I had the ability to hear the different effects of blocks and racks.  I can hear differences between amps and cans quite easily, but moving between DACs is sometimes challenging for me.  Perhaps it's good I can't tell as much as you can because I'd obsess over it over and over again while I found the optimal conditions until I had an Edgar Allen Poe moment and my head exploded.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I certainly admire your golden ears.  I wish I had the ability to hear the different effects of blocks and racks.  I can hear differences between amps and cans quite easily, but moving between DACs is sometimes challenging for me.  Perhaps it's good I can't tell as much as you can because I'd obsess over it over and over again while I found the optimal conditions until I had an Edgar Allen Poe moment and my head exploded.


 
   
   
  Golden ears? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't even hear a Goldfish think! (swim, perhaps?) I agree, it is easy in this hobby to obsess...even without realizing it until it's late in the night. Some of these changes are hardly noticeable when listening in the moment. But left for a few weeks while I get on with daily life and something once hidden; obscured, may hit me upside my BIG head. 
   
  It is my understanding that the brain seeks efficiency. And will always attempt to do three basic things in its various states, from resting to energized: Record, recognize and compensate. To me, A/B exercises can prove fruitless. Time will bring no guaranty but can bring new opportunity to experience something. Maybe one's brain is already aware but on a conscious level, one may fail to recognize what it already knows. Game shows anyone? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I love exploration in music and audio. And despite all the naysayers recently responding to my adventures in this area, I'm having fun and learning to boot. Isn't everyone having fun in this hobby?


----------



## hodgjy

Naysayers gonna say nay and haters gonna hate. Enjoy this hobby anyway you like. I am sure there are differences in sound based on different blocks because vibrations certainly have an effect on any electrical field. I hope you didn't interpret my comments as naysaying; it was actually of admiration.

On the flip side of naysaying, I tweaked my settings in iTunes to my liking. In the process, the signal to my DAC is no longer bit perfect. I don't care. Haters gonna hate. I'm gonna listen.


----------



## hodgjy

In other real world applications of blocks and vibrations, in our research labs we have to put our analytical balances (really sensitive scales) on huge granite blocks. Otherwise, the vibrations in the building and the earth will prevent the balance from locking on to the proper reading. This is reason number one why I believe blocks and feet certainly do have an effect on sound. It's just my ears aren't good enough to hear most of the differences.


----------



## grokit

Speaking of, these came in today:


----------



## john57

How well those carbon fiber isolation pads will work?


----------



## grokit

They will give me physical separation from the component below, and hopefully dampen any vibration from it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Naysayers gonna say nay and haters gonna hate. Enjoy this hobby anyway you like. I am sure there are differences in sound based on different blocks because vibrations certainly have an effect on any electrical field. I hope you didn't interpret my comments as naysaying; it was actually of admiration.
> On the flip side of naysaying, I tweaked my settings in iTunes to my liking. In the process, the signal to my DAC is no longer bit perfect. I don't care. Haters gonna hate. I'm gonna listen.


 
   
  No misinterpretation here, our dialogue was the first of the day worth having. I do value other's opinion. But, if members are going to sling mud at me, I've right to ensure they're using Certified 100% Organic Dirt. Otherwise, why bother?!_ _





   
  As someone who enjoys computer audio, I still have folks challenging me on the street with the tired "You're fooling yourself, bits is bits" argument. Or want me to do a ABX with the cheap $1.50 USB cable that  comes with every electronic purchase - printer - portables - cameras - computers. Recently, we've learned these crowds were left behind at the train station. Some of them still standing there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I still remember the huge leap made my the discovery of Jitter in Digital Audio. And the huge opposition to its finding and what it meant. I always strive to keep an open mind.
   
  I hear what you're saying about "Bit perfect." It's admirable. But at the end of the day...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> They will give me physical separation from the component below, and hopefully dampen any vibration from it.


 
   
  Will watch for further development with your new acquisition..._with interest, I might add._


----------



## Silent One

I understand 2359glenn is entering his last surgery this morning. Best wishes to you, my man!


----------



## wotts

Here's hoping all goes well!


----------



## dannie01

How can I missed this thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I am not gone through the whole thread (it's pretty long) but need to say, thanks Glenn. Glenn has help a lot on how to re-solve the 5U4G blown problem in my WA5LE or others and has thoroughly think on the modification method. Finally he found we can use the 596 tubes on it without a problem and even sound better than some expensive tubes.
   
  THANKS GLENN and you are our treasure. Hope you recover very very soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  With best wishes.


----------



## Silent One

No idea... but glad you found us!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No idea... but glad you found us!


----------



## Silent One

Earlier in the week, I received the National Union 6SN7GT - _Smoked Glass._ Never heard it before in any amp and was very curious to hear it in my OTL amp. I installed the tube and let the glass warm up for two hours. My trial, now under way, made for a rude awakening.
   
  I did nothing to provoke the tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but was assaulted anyway... at any volume. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can now confirm it isn't our custom built amp, Xcalibur255; rosgr63. Two things struck me and in a bad way: 1-Hugely microphonic. At one point, I even coughed and flinched at the feedback. I didn't need to cough, actually. But in the spirit of testing, I started doing all kinds of things that one might do or experience while in-session. 2-A loud hum persists, no matter the volume. And proves annoying when listening to dynamic recordings or one with soft and delicate vocals and instruments. 
   
  Astrud Gilberto... _poor thing_. Her lighter-than-air vocals were completely marred; obscured. There were other tracks - none escaped the dreaded hum. I'm really glad I had the opportunity to hear this tube. It simply wasn't meant to be with my amp. I do love  good adventure and this one won't be complete until I roll in some different tubes, so... stay tuned. 
   
  In the event it fares better with different tube selections, then I'll be John Brown (1800-1859)!
   
   
   
*Update: *Guess I'm gonna be John Brown! At least for a night anyway, see post #376 for update.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I did nothing to provoke the tube
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is the most interesting way to desribe bad tubes ever heard. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did buy a pair of Ken Rad 6SN7 with similar problem but not that bad as yours and I finally returned to the seller in the next day for a refund, yes, that quick because the place I live is really a small city.  Good luck buddy with your tube rolling game, it burns $.


----------



## rosgr63

That's very interesting.
   
  That tube tested NOS and as can be seen it has no cathode boil off marks.
  It was tested on an amp for a couple of hours and sounded very nice.
   
  It was very slightly microphonic when touched, lots of tubes are, but had no hum or noise issues.
  I think that some damage might have happened in transit, it does happen occasionally.
  Particles can get dislodged and can get stuck between elements and cause problems.
   
  SO when you are done with it please send it back so I can re test it on my testers and amps.
  Thread readers should note there was no sale involved.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I try to bring readers inside the listening room 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... to the crime scene. All jokes aside, I know from Glenn and JC that it's a nice tube that can be micro-phonic but not always. The hum, however, is baffling...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> That's very interesting.
> 
> That tube tested NOS and as can be seen it has no cathode boil off marks.
> It was tested on an amp for a couple of hours and sounded very nice.
> ...


 
   
   
  Looking back, I should have been more clear on this point. Thanks for pointing this out on my behalf. I'm not sure what to make of the hum issue. This is yet another reason why I should have kept my WooAudio amp. I found that rectifiers and drive tubes could show characteristics on one amp but not the other. I could have narrowed things further for you. I still can't help but think that the tube might be fine and it's amp dependent.
   
  Before I return it, I'm going with a change in the line-up. _The Russians are coming..._ the Russian 6AS7G's are my quietest power tubes and will go with those and the GE 3DG4 rectifier and see how the NU behaves. Then will return the tube mid-week.
   
  I saw the exciting news on the adapters coming in for the 6SN7 Killers!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Well, it's a shame that the tube is no good, but all the same I'm thankful it isn't my amp.  Thanks for reporting your findings SO.
   
  Rosgr, I'm still concerned this might have been my fault during my cleaning process.  I try to be gentle, but polishing the pins with steel wool requires working the piece back and forth across the pins so the shaking action might have shifted the mica tabs holding the plate against the glass, or dislodged some sort of material.  Of course it could also have happened in shipping, where it would have been jostled around a lot.  I've cleaned a lot of tubes this way and had no problems until my TSRP so I'm giving myself the benefit of the doubt for now.


----------



## Silent One

One observation I've made, day one actually, is that my amp could be suffering from shipping and handling. I'm only speculating but the 6SN7 & 6AS7 tubes socket on the right side are grip tight! The 6AS7 & rectifier tube socket on the left side are extremely loose. Coincidentally, the amp's heaviest side is on the left. I'm wondering about the amp's reality in transit.


----------



## Silent One

*Update on National Union! *
   
_The Russians are coming... the Russians are coming... again... the Russians... to the rescue? _It's a wrap!!! Replaced the 5998's with the Russian 6AS7G's as promised tonight. And silence. Dead silence. Volume up, volume down, music playing, music paused all without incident. 
   
  Initially, I was going to replace the '596' too, but I like it too much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 No matter, the National Union is fine - no issues of hum, no issues of microphonics. With the former, it could be heard even when music is not playing when the 5998's are installed; very micro-phonic around face-plate and especially the volume control knob. With the Russians, no worries.
   
  So, how does it sound SO? It sounds promising and I like it. The TS-BGRP brings more to the table but the NU is quite serviceable. On the flip side, the 5998's bring more to the table (mine anyway) than the Russians but we're seeing obvious trade offs. More detail & noise versus less detail but silence. Maybe Sunday night, if I return home before midnight, will see the Sylvania's slide in there for a brief comparison.
   
  Randomly selected tracks in alpha order A-C:
   
  Abraham Laboriel -  Holidays 
   
  Al Jarreau - Golden Girl
   
  Angela Bofill - I Try
   
  Astrud Gilberto - Non-Stop To Brazil
                             - Fly Me To The Moon
                             - The Shadow Of Your Smile
   
  B.B. King - Ask Me No Questions
                    - To Know You Is To Love You
   
  Beatles, The - Back In The U.S.S.R.
   
  Busi Mhlongo - Izinziswa
   
  Candi Staton - Victim
   
  Cars, The - Candy-O


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Well, it's a shame that the tube is no good, but all the same I'm thankful it isn't my amp.  Thanks for reporting your findings SO.
> 
> Rosgr, I'm still concerned this might have been my fault during my cleaning process.  I try to be gentle, but polishing the pins with steel wool requires working the piece back and forth across the pins so the shaking action might have shifted the mica tabs holding the plate against the glass, or dislodged some sort of material.  Of course it could also have happened in shipping, where it would have been jostled around a lot.  I've cleaned a lot of tubes this way and had no problems until my TSRP so I'm giving myself the benefit of the doubt for now.


 
   
  You did an excellent job cleaning the pins! The NU is fine after all...


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Well, it's a shame that the tube is no good, but all the same I'm thankful it isn't my amp.  Thanks for reporting your findings SO.
> 
> Rosgr, I'm still concerned this might have been my fault during my cleaning process.  I try to be gentle, but polishing the pins with steel wool requires working the piece back and forth across the pins so the shaking action might have shifted the mica tabs holding the plate against the glass, or dislodged some sort of material.  Of course it could also have happened in shipping, where it would have been jostled around a lot.  I've cleaned a lot of tubes this way and had no problems until my TSRP so I'm giving myself the benefit of the doubt for now.


 
  xcalibur no way pin cleaning could have caused this.
  I too use a nail file or steel wool but never had any problems.
  If anything pin cleaning is an essential care of a tube.
   
  Waiting for SO's further testing.
  It's good news indeed that both amps exhibit the same behavior using the same tube.


----------



## rosgr63

Revelation time:
   
  It's the ECC40.
   
  Currently amp testing a Tungsram, doesn't sound too bad.


----------



## hodgjy

Are those the Svetlanas (6H13C)? Those are underrated and under appreciated tubes. They have a slight veil to them, but they have a pleasing warmth. Most importantly, they are dead silent.



silent one said:


> *Update on National Union! *
> 
> _The Russians are coming... the Russians are coming... again... the Russians... to the rescue? _It's a wrap!!! Replaced the 5998's with the Russian 6AS7G's as promised tonight. And silence. Dead silence. Volume up, volume down, music playing, music paused all without incident.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Update on National Union! *
> 
> _The Russians are coming... the Russians are coming... again... the Russians... to the rescue? _It's a wrap!!! Replaced the 5998's with the Russian 6AS7G's as promised tonight. And silence. Dead silence. Volume up, volume down, music playing, music paused all without incident.
> 
> ...


 
  So we have two possibilities: a) the noise is still there and the greatly decreased mu factor of the 6AS7 is simply hiding it, or b) the 5998s load the 6SN7 differently from an electrical standpoint and it is revealing the issue due to operational stress which is not present when paired with a 6AS7.
   
  I too thought the NU was not bad with the Sylvania 6AS7s I tried it with, the tonal balance of each tube seemed to complement each other well.  The 5998, even setting the noise issue aside, doesn't pair well with the NU and sounds unbalanced in the mids and lower treble.  I would not take it over my trusty Sylvania though, and I can think of a couple of other tubes that pair better with 6AS7s too such as the Hitachi.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Revelation time:
> 
> It's the ECC40.
> 
> Currently amp testing a Tungsram, doesn't sound too bad.


 

 Looking forward to reading upcoming impressions on this.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I'm glad you read my post and sent the following contribution. It is something that mirrors my thoughts and may not have been fully expressed. But recognized through your own expression. What grade steel wool are you using? Should post a sample, a quick pix if you would. I was diggin' the clean pins!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Are those the Svetlanas (6H13C)? Those are underrated and under appreciated tubes. They have a slight veil to them, but they have a pleasing warmth. Most importantly, they are dead silent.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, Svetlanas 6H13C's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hiding in the West. And yes sir, they are dead silent! That to me is impressive in its own right. Demonstrated by my turn of the dial toward maximum with no music playing.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Revelation time:
> 
> It's the ECC40.
> 
> Currently amp testing a Tungsram,* doesn't sound too bad.*


 
   
  Great! However, in what way do you mean? In Paris, when something is excellent and perhaps sublime, Parisiens will say "Not bad." Are you understating or it actually doesn't sound too bad?


----------



## Silent One

Just heard from our amp designer. Hopes to get released Tuesday... for good!


----------



## john57

Glenn likes the Svetlanas 6H13C's since they can handle higher voltages and hold up a bit better than some of the other 6AS7/6080 tubes


----------



## Silent One

If they offered more detail at their prices, they'd be a killa!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm glad you read my post and sent the following contribution. It is something that mirrors my thoughts and may not have been fully expressed. But recognized through your own expression. What grade steel wool are you using? Should post a sample, a quick pix if you would. I was diggin' the clean pins!


 
  Grade #0000 - Final Finish/Super Fine
   
  It takes more work on pins that are rough but it takes all the friction out of insertion and removal.  I always follow it with deoxit and then a final alcohol cleaning to prevent deoxit from building up on socket parts.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just heard from our amp designer. Hopes to get released Tuesday... for good!


 
  Very happen news, this is.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Glenn likes the Svetlanas 6H13C's since they can handle higher voltages and hold up a bit better than some of the other 6AS7/6080 tubes


 
  That the amps were designed with the ruggedness of the russian tube in mind has likely been the source of a few of the problems with US made tubes, but finding good ones is worth it because they simply sound better IMO.  Considering the amp wasn't made for the 5998 at all I think they work together pretty well.  Rarely are there issues that take away from music enjoyment and the benefits outweigh them anyway.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If I touch these pins one more time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it might turn into some sort of fetish. I'm safe for now, it was only my sixth. Psychologists generally agree it takes 13 times before something becomes a habit.


----------



## Silent One

Are there any premium Russian 6H13C's to be had, something really wonderful?


----------



## john57

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Are there any premium Russian 6H13C's to be had, something really wonderful?


 
   
  [size=medium]It is my understanding that there are two types of Russian 6H13C types available made in two factories[/size]
  [size=medium]Winged "C" 6H13C[/size]
  [size=medium]http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-Svetlana-6H5C-Winged-C-1960-ties-Lot-of-2-/200770220718?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebed672ae[/size]
   
  [size=medium]and [/size]
   
  [size=medium]http://thetubestore.com/russian6h13c.html[/size]
  [size=medium]This article explains a bit more.[/size]
  [size=medium]http://www.wingedc.com/  [/size]
   
  [size=medium]I have both; the older version gives more of a purple glow on the glass.[/size]


----------



## Silent One

I know you see it coming... which one sounds best to your ears in your system?


----------



## hodgjy

From the best of my understanding of what I've read and have been told by tube vendors, is the Winged C and non-Winged C tubes are exactly the same except for the painted markings on them.



john57 said:


> It is my understanding that there are two types of Russian 6H13C types available made in two factories
> Winged "C" 6H13C
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-Svetlana-6H5C-Winged-C-1960-ties-Lot-of-2-/200770220718?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebed672ae
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

If the answer to this post isn't ideal for public consumption, please feel free to PM me the answer.

How much do Glenn's amps cost? Once he is fully recovered, does he have any plans to build more of them?


----------



## john57

Very similar but I like the Russian tubes better than the RCA's 6AS7 more neutral. The Russian's are a bit soft but I had other tubes that were softer.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> If the answer to this post isn't ideal for public consumption, please feel free to PM me the answer.
> 
> How much do Glenn's amps cost? Once he is fully recovered, does he have any plans to build more of them?


 
   
  I'll answer the last questions first: Yes. And the amps are custom built and prices will vary - Transformer-less, Direct Coupled, DHT, 2A3-45-300B and so on. He's also very good about improving later builds when he finds a better way to implement something. My particular 6AS7 based OTL amp cost $450. Later builds are likely to cost a bit more but will still reign with value.
   
  In my biased opinion (ain't trying to be PC, trying to be honest! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), these amps are worth listening to!
   
   
  - "Don't be vague... ask for SPRAGUE."


----------



## hodgjy

Thank you for the answers. I would love to hear these amps, and as good as you guys have described them, they certainly are worth every penny. Plus, I love the idea of supporting independent builders and designers.



silent one said:


> I'll answer the last questions first: Yes. And the amps are custom built and prices will vary - Transformer-less, Direct Coupled, DHT, 2A3-45-300B and so on. He's also very good about improving later builds when he finds a better way to implement something. My particular 6AS7 based OTL amp cost $450. Later builds are likely to cost a bit more but will still reign with value.
> 
> In my biased opinion (ain't trying to be PC, trying to be honest!   ), these amps are worth listening to!
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Thank you for the answers. I would love to hear these amps, and as good as you guys have described them, they certainly are worth every penny. Plus, I love the idea of supporting independent builders and designers.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is a very important point for me in this hobby. I worked retail and manufacturing for the small independent. I worked harder, made less money than others at bigger enterprises. But the dividends paid out over a lifetime from being with a small family business and the friendships in the industry were worth it!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is a very important point for me in this hobby. I worked retail and manufacturing for the small independent. I worked harder, made less money than others at bigger enterprises. But the dividends paid out over a lifetime from being with a small family business and the friendships in the industry were worth it!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## wotts

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> If the answer to this post isn't ideal for public consumption, please feel free to PM me the answer.
> How much do Glenn's amps cost? Once he is fully recovered, does he have any plans to build more of them?


 
   
  I'm haven't even heard the price of the amp I've placed an order for, but I've no doubt it will be worth 2x or 3x the price asked. A good OTL amp has few contemporaries. As for acceptance of more orders, I know Glenn had promised to build my unit once his health improved. At this point it's not desire to build more, than his wife and doctor instructing he should not do it. For his safety and prolonged membership, I agree! Glenn's expertise is worth many times the hardware that comes from his shop. Few, if any of use would be looking for the venerable 596 without his guidance.


----------



## Silent One

It's those darn voltages getting in the way of building an empire! I'd rather Glenn stick around, near dynasty or no. Also, I know there are other rectifiers that could come in and fill the bill. But the story behind the _Mighty 596, _how it all came to be_,_ just makes it special! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Admittedly, dannie01 had to suffer heartache first; take one for the team. But boy, did he!


----------



## wotts

With an amp hanging in the wings that can use the EML, I'm cautious. The 300B is an investment no matter how your shake it. But that Full Music out there...


----------



## john57

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I'm haven't even heard the price of the amp I've placed an order for, but I've no doubt it will be worth 2x or 3x the price asked. A good OTL amp has few contemporaries. As for acceptance of more orders, I know Glenn had promised to build my unit once his health improved. At this point it's not desire to build more, than his wife and doctor instructing he should not do it. For his safety and prolonged membership, I agree! Glenn's expertise is worth many times the hardware that comes from his shop. Few, if any of use would be looking for the venerable 596 without his guidance.


 
   
  I think that it would be good for Glenn to continue as a consultant paid or not. He also could be a tube amp designer for a builder if he wishes.There are many options he can explore and still be a valuable member of the Hi-Fi community!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> From the best of my understanding of what I've read and have been told by tube vendors, is the Winged C and non-Winged C tubes are exactly the same except for the painted markings on them.


 
  I did not read you post until after my last post. I wonder why they sound so similar. I would agreed that they are made the same way but the article suggests that there may have been two factories involved in in building these tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Electronics is in his blood. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We're going to have Glenn one way or another...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
_The Sylvania 6AS7G/National Union pairing tonight went final!_ The hum is back. And so is the microphonics. But, to a lesser degree with each. In fact, the results fit neatly in the middle of the 5998's and 6H13C's results. Will try to return the NU mid-week.


----------



## grokit

silent one said:


> john57 said:
> 
> 
> > wotts said:
> ...




If he isn't up to pumping out his own amps, he could definitely stay busy pimping out our Woos...


----------



## Silent One

New accessory for the Mac mini!  I'm certain, the custom built 6AS7 OTL amp will approve.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Atomic Audio Labs Mac mini platform:


----------



## wotts

*Ok.*
   
   
  That is just sexy. If it works even close to advertised, I'm getting at Mac Mini to to get it too.
   
   
  Oh. Damn.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> *Ok.*
> 
> 
> That is just sexy. If it works even close to advertised, I'm getting at Mac Mini to to get it too.
> ...


 
   
  The thread became a bit dormant, so I ordered the Mac platform just to post pix!


----------



## rosgr63

No Way, just keep an eye. more to come soon I hope!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> No Way, just keep an eye. more to come soon I hope!


 
   
  Good to see others stay on top of the thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will try very hard to return the NU later this afternoon or Monday.


----------



## rosgr63

Following SO's findings I ordered a pair of 6N13S tubes to try.
  I am not very fond of USSR made tubes but I thought I should give them a try.


----------



## Skylab

I think some of the 60's Svetlana black plates are OK, but I prefer even the run of the mill RCA 6AS7G.


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Rob, I never owned any Svetlana I am just curious.
  I quite like the RCA black plates, it's my reference 6AS7G.


----------



## Skylab

I agree Stavros, the RCA is a nice sounding tube, and still quite affordable! 

It is for sure worth trying the Svetlana, as they are quite cheap!


----------



## rosgr63

I could have mentioned the Osram Black Base and GEC Brown Base, but their cost is ever so high.


----------



## Silent One

There's something about the Svetlana. Sonics aside, the quietness of the tube is alluring. Makes me wish I could take two or three different tubes and only take the best attributes of each.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I could have mentioned the Osram Black Base and GEC Brown Base, but their cost is ever so high.


 
   
  Indeed...lots of nice alternatives for more money...Tung-Sol / Chatham black-plate 6AS7G are my favorite US 6AS7G (assuming we are not counting the 5998/2399), but those can be expensive.


----------



## Silent One

Update:
   
  After putting the new Mac platform through its paces the last 10 days, a few without the tuning washers and the last few days with, I can now say the platform performs as advertised. However, sitting on the 4" Maple platform caused over dampening for the Mac platform. It performed best sitting on top of my coffee table.
   
  Will be testing and tuning further as summer approaches. Anything to make the _Silver Hawk_ shine!


----------



## Silent One

Just past midnight out here on the West coast and I'm giving the Pre-Amp Out a good first run! Got it going down to the Pioneer SX-650. I tried this for the first time a few months back. The session lasted a mere five minutes... sounded bad! I used the ubiquitous Red/White RCA audio cables. Tonight, we're using a pair but also the Wireworld Eclipse 6 interconnects. Now, things are sounding more interesting.
   
  Compared to listening to the Pioneer's HPO, the OTL sounds a bit cleaner, a bit more open. Still, I could benefit from a better quality secondary interconnect, TT & cart. Things get any better and I might have to buy my first 180-200 gram virgin vinyl record.


----------



## wotts

Thanks for the updates, SO. The platform is definitely something I will be looking at in the future. I'm thinking about making the move to a Mac-mini for music handling. Everyone seems to be so happy with it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Thanks for the updates, SO. The platform is definitely something I will be looking at in the future. I'm thinking about making the move to a Mac-mini for music handling. Everyone seems to be so happy with it.


 
   
  As it is sometimes with newer models, the 2011 Mac mini outperforms my mid-2010 model. Rather than upgrade, I was thinking about applying the same money to vinyl and have two systems worth listening to.
   
  I really like the form factor of the mini and its overall flexibility.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I decided to roll the Chatham 6AS7G back into the amp for a change of pace.  It's been pretty nice so far.  A good reminder that it is not just a matter of black and white, better and worse when comparing this amp's tube options.  These and the 5998 excel at different things and complement different music.  I've found some tracks that I have enjoyed tonight more than I did in the past with the 5998, and also a few where I found myself missing said 5998s.  The 5998 can get a bit fatiguing with some material though so this has been a nice change of pace to relax.
   
  It might not be an entirely fair comparison though since the Chathams found some unexpected backup tonight fueling my positive impressions.  On a whim I decided to throw one of the misbehaving BGRP Tung Sols in to replace the Sylvania (otherwise known as "the usual suspect") thinking that the lower gain on the 6AS7 might make the buzzing and humming quiet enough to be ignorable.  What I was greeted with was about 30 seconds of a faint whine and then silence.  A silence that persisted the entire night.  Even the microphonics exhibited by the tube, such as the ping from something touching the desk, were puzzlingly absent.  What _was_ present in place of this offending noise was beautiful music.  I have a hard time deciding between the BGRP Tung Sol and the Sylvania where the 5998 is concerned.  Each has strengths and weaknesses, but the last time I compared I found myself preferring the Sylvania because it seems to have better synergy with the 5998 as far as tone is concerned.  There is a certain midrange sweetness the 5998 needs that the Sylvania delivers and both tubes play to each others strengths in general.  While the Tung Sol initially impresses with its holographic imaging and better spatial placement of notes after this initial wow factor wears off I find myself unengaged by them for reasons I can't quite explain.  The midrange just doesn't quite work with the 5998 tonal balance.
   
  Now that I'm hearing things with the Chatham 6AS7Gs the chess board has been turned over.  I enjoy the Sylvania/Chatham pairing, it is very pleasant and well rounded but compared to the dynamics and transparency of the 5998 this combo feels a bit too polite and somewhat less resolving.  Nice, but it doesn't put you in the room with the artist.  The BGRP gets along incredibly well with the Chathams, on the other hand.  Resolution and transparency take a noticeable step up, and that famous holographic soundstage is on full display.  The Sylvania can't even compete in this department.  The BGRP/Chatham combo exhibits beautiful tone too, and draws the emotional qualities out of vocals effortlessly.  This is what was missing when the 5998 was dating this tube.  I have spent the last couple of hours extremely engaged by the Tung Sol/Chatham pair in general and am surprised by how good it sounds.
   
  I'm at a loss as to why my BGRP is behaving all of a sudden, but you know what they say about gift horses......  Something might have shifted just enough the last time I handled it to quell the microphonics.  In the near future I intend to put the 5998 back in but leave the BGRP in the amp, this will tell the rest of the story hopefully.  I think it will also serve as a good reality check on the 5998 in general since I've been listening to them exclusively ever since the amp was modded.  Taking a break will help offer some perspective on what the tube does and does not improve in terms of presentation.  I think the fact that I felt the need for a change of pace says that, at the least, the 5998 is not perfect for every occasion.  After enjoying the dynamic tour de force of the 5998s for a good while the sense of delicacy and finesse the 6AS7Gs brought to the table tonight was sort of refreshing.  Luckily either can be employed with the simple flick of a switch thanks to Glenn.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for the update Xcalibur.
  I often play around with tubes, just to remember how some tubes sound.
   
  I check micro phonics by touching a tube on the glass top wearing a glove of course.
  Good luck with the TS BGRPs.


----------



## Silent One

This was great to read, Xcalibur255! I always make sure to revisit ground once traveled - good and bad alike. Last night and tonight finds the listening room dark... _and silent._ And has me thinking, with only 278 hours logged on the S_ilver Hawk_, will I make 300 hours by 30 June, or will it be June Swoon?!" Stay tuned...


----------



## Xcalibur255

5998 are now back in the amp.  The Tung Sol was not touched.  Microphonics remained absent, but the static in the left channel is there, albeit a a much lower level than before.  It doesn't seem like microphony, it literally sounds like white noise, very steady and persistent.  Before it was loud and rendered the tube unusable, but this time it is low level enough to at least make the tube usable.  We shall see how this develops, since the tube has already changed behavior maybe it will continue to do so.  I have rediscovered my love for this tube's presentation in the last week so it would be nice if at least one of the two would operate properly in the amp, though there is still the issue of running one tube from a matched pair long term to consider.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Sadly the tung sol will be coming out, the noise is still bothersome despite the reduced level.  Two things immediately strike me now that the 5998 are back in the amp:  they unconditionally have better transparency than the 6AS7 (and better PRAT), even with the higher noise floor, and I find that I universally prefer them for instrumental music.  The timbre of instruments is much more true to life to my ears.  The lusher sound of the 6AS7 complements some vocals very well, but mostly popular music.  Anything well recorded again favors the 5998 and its ability to place you in the room with the performance.  The 6AS7 simply cannot do this for me.
   
  Maybe I'll roll some other 6SN7 again since something else will have to go in to replace the tung sol. 
   
  edit:  just before I shut the amp down the tung sol became microphonic again.  I think it is operating temp related.  The higher temperatures from the 6AS7 might expand the micas against the glass in the tung sol just enough to stop whatever is going on with it.  It's a shame, but what can a guy do.......  At least they work well with the Chathams.


----------



## rosgr63

Sorry to hear the problem is still there.
  When it comes to splitting up a matched pair to me it's justifiable as you'll be left with a good spare tube.
   
  Can you get the TS tested on a B&K or Sencore tester?
  They can reveal difficult leakage problems a Hickok circuit could easily miss.


----------



## Silent One

Since I wasn't use to having an amp that uses a single 6SN7 tube instead of a pair, I decided to split duty with my matched pair of TS-BGRP's @ about 50-75 hours per tube. No magic number, just being mindful to rotate them in & out.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


>


 
   
  On a side note, did you ever un-stick the rectifier? Thus, leaving yourself open to try the _Mighty 596? _


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Sorry to hear the problem is still there.
> When it comes to splitting up a matched pair to me it's justifiable as you'll be left with a good spare tube.
> 
> Can you get the TS tested on a B&K or Sencore tester?
> They can reveal difficult leakage problems a Hickok circuit could easily miss.


 

 I have no immediate means.  I still plan to own my own tester at some point, but am not sure which one.  I'm not all that torn up about it, despite how much of a financial loss it represents if the tubes really are problematic.  More interestingly is why they work great when a 6AS7G is in the amp.  Electrically the 6SN7 shouldn't care what output tube is in as far as I know, and the reduced gain would only lessen the noise not eliminate it.  It's mysterious.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> On a side note, did you ever un-stick the rectifier? Thus, leaving yourself open to try the _Mighty 596? _


 

 It isn't stuck, I'm just too scared to take it out because the socket pins might come with it.  Testing my luck rarely ends well for me.....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  O... _someday._


----------



## wotts

I've been trying to source a nice calibrated unit. I own two but my testing results have little correlation. How did that go...
   
_O...someday._


----------



## john57

I remember when I brought my Sencore TC28 tester the emission and the short tests sort of worked but the leakage circuit was a mess. Someone tried to clean the pots with the wrong contact cleaner causing shorts after a period of time. I had to take the tester apart and clean it and removed the factory locks on the calibration pots. I built the calibration module for the tester and was able to get my TC28 adjusted to factory specs which was very, very sensitive. However testers in general can not test anywhere near the voltages that the tube will be using in the circuit. There are a few testers that are the exception. Even different models of calibrated Hickock testers do not always read the same. Since my TC28 can not give an GM readings I rely on the leakage and the life test to overcome the lack of a GM reading capability. After using my tube tester for a while I gain the knack of knowing how low the readings can be before the tube becomes audibly weak.


----------



## Silent One

Way to overcome, john57!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I've been trying to source a nice calibrated unit. I own two but my testing results have little correlation. How did that go...
> 
> _O...someday._


 
   
  Your example is one reason why I have delayed my own purchase. With tweaks seemingly having a magnetic pull on the few dollars I save each month 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , I'm trying to make sure I get the best bang for the buck when I do purchase one. Because, it may not be advanced or fully featured.
   
  Shopping always leaves me mixed - think I found one but "O, it doesn't test for this... or that." There's hope for me, however. Get one and compensate by learning much like john57 did to overcome.


----------



## rosgr63

The Hickok circuit tests shorts/leakages at 0,25 MOhm, the B&K, Sencore and Precision amongst others test at 100 MOhm so they are more sensitive than the Hickok circuit.
   
  When you are ready I have a friend who restores and sell testers, he might be able to help.


----------



## Silent One

Great!


----------



## wotts

Ooooo....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> The Hickok circuit tests shorts/leakages at 0,25 MOhm, the B&K, Sencore and Precision amongst others test at 100 MOhm so they are more sensitive than the Hickok circuit.
> 
> When you are ready I have a friend who restores and sell testers, he might be able to help.


 
   
  Wondering how the "6SN7 Tube Killa" is coming along, and if you've had a chance to try them in more than one circuit?


----------



## rosgr63

Hi SO, I posted some initial impressions in a different thread, sorry too much soccer on, I got distracted:
   
   
   
*ECC40 First Report*
   
  So far I have tried a variety of ECC40 with two systems:
   
*System 1*

  MacBook Pro => Optical => CI Audio VDA2+VAC1 => SP PPX3-6SN7 (Glenn Rechnitzer Fixed) (NU 6F8G with Glenn Rechnitzer 6F8G/6SN7 Adapters) => DT880 250Ohm
   
*System 2*
  MacBook Pro => Optical => CI Audio VDA2+VAC1 => SP Extreme (Bolder Fixed) (Raytheon 6AS7G Black Plates) => Grado SR325is
   
*Tubes tried*
  Valvo, Ultron, Telefunken, SEL Lorenz, Siemens, Tungsram, Philips Miniwatt.
  The Long Plate versions of the ECC40 sound the best.
   
*Results System 1*
  The sound is very detailed, clear and dynamic with a nicely controlled bass.
   
*Results System 2*
  I did not like the sound at all, sounded very tinny, horrible.
   
  More tests to follow.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The SP Extreme uses the 6AS7G for output, just as Glenn's amp does.  That's less than encouraging, though I have no idea what a SP amp sounds like so one naturally cannot draw any conclusions yet.  What does the PPX3 use for output tubes?  Is it the 6SN7 itself?


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63, you must be one of the lucky few to have quiet NU 6F8G's in their amp.


----------



## rosgr63

The PPX3-6SN7 uses 6SN7's for input and output as well as some other combinations.
   
  It's the amp design and the operating parameters that can overcome tube noise.
  I have 8 NU 6F8G NIB, one of them is noisy in the driver position but quiet in the output stage.
   
  Glenn who checked it out for me when I first bought it, thought it was a nice sounding amp.
   
  Once I get more adapters build SO and Xcalibur will be able to check the ECC40's.


----------



## Silent One

A chance to shake up the listening room...


----------



## rosgr63

Indeed!
   
  What are you listening to now?


----------



## john57

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> The PPX3-6SN7 uses 6SN7's for input and output as well as some other combinations.
> 
> It's the amp design and the operating parameters that can overcome tube noise.
> I have 8 NU 6F8G NIB, one of them is noisy in the driver position but quiet in the output stage.
> ...


 
  Good point, Tube testers can not always tell if a tube is going to be noisy in a given circuit even if the tester has a noise jack for headphones. Glen at one time send me a bunch of NU 6F8G tubes and I cherry pick the best of the low noise and send the rest back to him.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Indeed!
> 
> What are you listening to now?


 
   
  I decided to take an additional night off in favor of film (DVD). Early Saturday evening I downloaded a demo of the software player XXHighEnd for my Win7 box. I have a couple of installation issues, so no test drive yet.
   
  Did you have a listening session last night?


----------



## rosgr63

Very brief one, listening to Saint Etienne's latest double CD.
   
  Currently testing a batch of tubes including the NU CNU6SN7GT.
  It tested NOS and no noise or any other issues after 50 mins.
  It is very slightly microphonic when you touch the glass dome, but that's not a problem.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It would seem our amp's circuit demands a quieter than usual tube then.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I decided to take an additional night off in favor of film (DVD). Early Saturday evening I downloaded a demo of the software player XXHighEnd for my Win7 box. I have a couple of installation issues, so no test drive yet.
> 
> Did you have a listening session last night?


 

 MPC-HC + madVR is the only way to go for video playback in the windows world.  Ultimate quality and plays anything you can imagine if you take the time to configure everything correctly.  mplayer2 and its frontend SMplayer is also a nice alternative if you want it to just work without messing with it.  This is what I am now using on my TV PC which is running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS in lieu of Windows.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The above reference with XXHighEnd is for my dedicated 2-channel audio. I mentioned skipping a listening session to watch a DVD instead. On the hardware & software side, I'm flush with three computers - the Win7 box hosting Lubuntu & Linux Mint, with players MPD/GMPC; Audacious; DeadBeef and a few more.
   
  Also JPLAY for Windows but I favor my primary OS X platform over all of 'em but remain open minded and adventurous. Auditioning XXHE and eventually HQPlayer from Signalyst for Win7. Still favor the form factor of the Mac mini though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the tip, though, as I love playing inside the listening room.


----------



## 2359glenn

As far as noise the 6AS7 is a horrible tube that is not intended for audio it's meant to be a voltage regulator. But I couldn't
  come up with a tube with as low impedance with two sections in one tube. I guess I could have used four KT88s but that would
  have made the amp much larger and more expensive.
      Before I got sick I was going to build a OTL amp that used four 6C33-C tubes that would be able to drive 32 ohm phones.
   But this is another horrible voltage regulator tube that gets very hot and is nosier then a 6AS7


----------



## Silent One

Good to see you posting!


----------



## 2359glenn

I am starting to be getting arround again


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I am starting to be getting arround again


 
   





 We got your back. Currently, sitting @ 295 hours on the amp. Should hit 300 by Monday night...


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Glenn,
   
  Nice to see you back.
   
  Is there an operating point that could make the 6AS7G and 6SN7 more quiet?
  Could one sacrifice some performance or power to make them more quiet?


----------



## wotts

Hi Glenn! Glad to see you back!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I am starting to be getting arround again


 
   
  Nice to hear you again, Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

I suppose I could have run them at a lower voltage but I made the amp to drive most phones including fairly low impedance.
  Low impedance requires lots of drive from a OTL and when I first made it I used the Svetlana 6H13 and they don't have the noise
  that the US tubes have. Maybe the GEC are quiet the ones I tried were.


----------



## john57

Glenn,
   
  I would agree based from my experience  that the Russian 6AS7 or the 6H13 has the least amount of issues from a electrical or noise standpoint. I am not crazy about the 6C33-C tubes since just by looking at it I can tell that tube is going to produce a great deal of heat and may need a fan just to cool the tube socket as well. I had a good time last weekend with Bach B-minor Mass concert and the CAS picnic, the same group that does the RMAF show every year.
  Good to hear from you!


----------



## hodgjy

Hey Glenn,
   
  Have you ever considered building an amp with the Russian 6S45P tubes?  They are cheap and abundant.  Moreover, I think they sound quite good.
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> As far as noise the 6AS7 is a horrible tube that is not intended for audio it's meant to be a voltage regulator. But I couldn't
> come up with a tube with as low impedance with two sections in one tube. I guess I could have used four KT88s but that would
> have made the amp much larger and more expensive.
> Before I got sick I was going to build a OTL amp that used four 6C33-C tubes that would be able to drive 32 ohm phones.
> But this is another horrible voltage regulator tube that gets very hot and is nosier then a 6AS7


----------



## rosgr63

Currently testing my first ever pair of Svetlana 6H13C 60's vintage.
  The Sylvania 6SN7 52 vintage drives them better than the CNU6SN7GT Gray Glass.
  Listening to the Afro Celt Sound System, Capture.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Great to see you posting again Glenn.
   
  Although the noise problems can be troublesome sometimes I like to believe the low impedance drive capability of the amp makes it worth it.


----------



## Silent One

The amp's ability to drive low impedance cans is what saved my Denon's. Thinking the amp wasn't an optimum pairing with my D7000, I set out to buy new cans.
   
  Once I started auditioning a few cans from 50 ohms - 600 ohms, however, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _not so fast. _I've recently discovered that Glenn designed the amp with some of us low impedance cats in mind.


----------



## john57

*FYI*
   
If anyone needs a Calibration Module already built for Sencore TC154 TC162 & TC28 tube tester you can find it here:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400307315590?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
   
I have already built my own module. There is a different resistor for each of the calibration for shorts, emission and leakage plus a diode.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Have any of you guys tried any audiophile replacement fuses?  My fuse gave up its fight tonight so I figured since I'm putting in a new one anyway maybe I should try to make a tiny upgrade out of it.
   
  I had always wondered what exactly happens when the fuse in a piece of audio gear blows.  Turns out in this amp at least the music just slowly fades out like a processing effect from a media player.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Have any of you guys tried any audiophile replacement fuses?  My fuse gave up its fight tonight so I figured since I'm putting in a new one anyway maybe I should try to make a tiny upgrade out of it.
> 
> I had always wondered what exactly happens when the fuse in a piece of audio gear blows.  Turns out in this amp at least the music just slowly fades out like a processing effect from a media player.


 
   
  Yes. dannie01 influenced me to get a Furutech fuse for my Woo. It's currently sitting inside the OTL amp. While I enjoy free tweaks the best, for $44 why not?! Since getting the current amp, I have made four observations about previous tweaks applied toward the Woo.
   
  1. Audiophile Fuse
  2. Drive Tube (TS-BGRP)
  3. Rectifier (USAF-596)
  4. ?
   
  Number four just escaped me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Moving on, these four things made more of a difference inside the _6 Special Edition._ Near negligible in the OTL amp. No idea! Well, design obviously but... I'd go on and do it. Or again, rather.


----------



## wotts

I had been interested in one of those fuses. PCX was running a 20% special on them, but I don't recall the brand. SO, where did you  get your Furutech?


----------



## rosgr63

I use Hi-Fi Tuning fuses in my DAC and CD Transport, but i am not sure how much improvement I achieved.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I had been interested in one of those fuses. PCX was running a 20% special on them, but I don't recall the brand. SO, where did you  get your Furutech?


 
   
  Aphrodite Cu29, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I even get my kool-aid from over there (Wireworld).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I use Hi-Fi Tuning fuses in my DAC and CD Transport, but i am not sure how much improvement I achieved.


 
   
  Now in-session with Astrud Gilberto...
   
   
  One day when I get around to it, might throw a Hi-Tech Supreme in the W4S box. Last year, I kept reading the website odysseyaudiohk.com and they were throwing audiophile fuses left and right and into everything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, I got inspired.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Well, I put a Radio Shack 5A fuse in the amp to get her singing again.  Maybe it is just m because I was perhaps expecting something but it does sound a bit different now.  It could also be from no tube warm up as I just hit play about 20 seconds after starting it up where as I normally allow at least a little bit of warmup time.  It sounds a bit more polite in the treble range.  I don't detect any loss of detail or lack of clarity.  Not in the top end, but in the upper mid to treble transition area, right where the K701s love to shout.  I actually think its an improvement, but maybe the change will go away once it has run for a bit.
   
  I'm considering trying an AMR fuse since they are more affordable than Furutech, but these kinds of tweaks should really come after the big things are all settled down I'm thinking.  Since I'm planning a new amp I can't throw coins at just any curiosity is what I've decided to tell myself, not that I ever listen.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Since I'm planning a new amp *I can't throw coins at just any curiosity is what I've decided to tell myself, not that I ever listen*.


 
   
  That makes two of us!
  It's the tube addiction for me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That makes two three of us!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> That makes two of us!
> It's the tube addiction for me.


 
  I've had the itch to try new 6SN7s again lately, I have to resist.  Whenever I go through what is in my box I always start thinking about the ones I haven't tried yet, and there are many.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes. dannie01 influenced me to get a Furutech fuse for my Woo. It's currently sitting inside the OTL amp. While I enjoy free tweaks the best, for $44 why not?! Since getting the current amp, I have made four observations about previous tweaks applied toward the Woo.
> 
> 1. Audiophile Fuse
> 2. Drive Tube (TS-BGRP)
> ...


 
   
  Tube damper?


----------



## Xcalibur255

All those anti-vibration feet?


----------



## Silent One

No tube dampers yet, and the feets/platforms are working out. Maybe it'll come to me after dinner... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _and dessert!_


----------



## rosgr63

I am going to impose a self ban from eBay.
  But not before I try a few more 2C51 with a 2C51 to 6SN7 adapter..........
   
  There is always an excuse.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am going to impose a self ban from eBay.
> But not before I try a few more 2C51 with a 2C51 to 6SN7 adapter..........
> 
> There is always an excuse.


 
   
  I love the denial 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in only naming one source.


----------



## rosgr63

Come on SO, give me a break, can't give up ALL in one go.


----------



## Silent One

So true. And me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm hung up on a tube's design - contour and construction. Some tubes are just flat out gorgeous... illuminated or no!


----------



## rosgr63

Think of a Glenn's special with two Marconi Italiana LP2 drivers!


----------



## Silent One

Oh my... too much for da kidd! When I go to bed after sunrise tomorrow, I'll be counting Marconi Italiana LP2 tubes at the foot of my bed... instead of sheep!


----------



## rosgr63

Here is another future possibility


----------



## Silent One

I can't wait to see your forthcoming work of art.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm excited too.  Those Italian DHT tubes may be an undiscovered treasure or sorts.  They certainly look beautiful.


----------



## grokit

2359glenn studios adapter farm!


----------



## Silent One

What a harvest!


----------



## rosgr63

Just received my ECC40/6SN7 adapters from Glenn.
  I'll test a couple of ECC40's & then I'll send them over to SO to check them with his amp.


----------



## Silent One

This is exciting. Looking forward to clocking some hours and getting impressions.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Another interesting tube one can put into the driver socket of our amps is the 6BL7.  Glenn suggested this to me a while back as a way to reduce the gain stage a bit for the 5998.  I had never tried it post-mod and since my Ken Rad tube turned out to be a bust I decided to play around with some tubes in my box I haven't messed with lately. 
   
  I acquired a Sylvania 6BL7GT a while back to test it but swapping the volume control during the amps mod made it unnecessary so I never revisited the tube until now.  It's a nice sounding tube, it lacks a bit of tone color and sounstage compared to the 6SN7 and is also a bit bass shy IMO but it seems to drive the 5998 better.  Everything sounds very coherent and controlled, with great transparency and note separation.  Well sorted would be the first word that comes to mind, a very honest sounding tube.
   
  The downside is the tube pulls nearly 4x the heater current and 3x the rectified DC plate current of a 6SN7 according to the data sheet I checked.  For audio applications this tube is actually usable as a power tube.  The 3DG4 doesn't seem to bat an eye at the extra burden, but IMO the mains transformer gets too hot from the extra load of these thirstier heaters.  You normally can put your hand on the tranny, but I have to withdraw it immediately in this scenario because it is too hot to maintain touch.
   
  A shame because the sound is quite good.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've run through a few more tracks now, and I continue to be impressed by the 6BL7.  I'm realizing now that the bass isn't lacking, it's just better buttoned down so it took a few tracks to adjust my perception.  I'm really liking it now.  I have one particular track I use to evaluate a variety of things when I roll tubes and this may be as good as I've ever heard it.  There's a lot going on in it backed up by some really strong low notes that will put any system to the test.  I could actually feel the ear pads of the phones vibrating against my head!  That was a first.  Everything was well sorted and clear as a bell.  I have to take back my comment about soundstage too, it's actually quite huge.  Because the overall transparency seems higher it takes more listener focus to really key in on just how big a stereo image is being thrown.  This is probably as true to source as I've ever heard the amp so far.
   
  I may have to get with Glenn and confirm the safety of this tube for the amp.  It would be a shame because it really seems like a better driver than the 6SN7 in most areas.  I've rifled through a number of test tracks now and have really liked what I heard on most of them.


----------



## wotts

I am going to dig through my tubes when I get home - that sounds like a familiar number. I'm thinking I may have some around. Already, I have a pile of tubes to test out when my amp comes. This is getting pretty exciting!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I've run through a few more tracks now, and I continue to be impressed by the 6BL7.  I'm realizing now that the bass isn't lacking, it's just better buttoned down so it took a few tracks to adjust my perception.  I'm really liking it now.  I have one particular track I use to evaluate a variety of things when I roll tubes and this may be as good as I've ever heard it.  There's a lot going on in it backed up by some really strong low notes that will put any system to the test.  I could actually feel the ear pads of the phones vibrating against my head!  That was a first.  Everything was well sorted and clear as a bell.  I have to take back my comment about soundstage too, it's actually quite huge.  Because the overall transparency seems higher it takes more listener focus to really key in on just how big a stereo image is being thrown.  This is probably as true to source as I've ever heard the amp so far.
> 
> I may have to get with Glenn and confirm the safety of this tube for the amp.  It would be a shame because it really seems like a better driver than the 6SN7 in most areas.  I've rifled through a number of test tracks now and have really liked what I heard on most of them.


 
   





 You knew we wanted to hear this, right?! Hope Glenn returns with a positive reply, so I can go check it out! Well, not that I have one... but I'll get one! Would love to hear some Abraham Laboriel, Sr. with this tube... and many others.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I suppose I could have run them at a lower voltage but I made the amp to drive most phones including fairly low impedance.
> Low impedance requires lots of drive from a OTL and when I first made it I used the Svetlana 6H13 and they don't have the noise
> that the US tubes have. Maybe the GEC are quiet the ones I tried were.


 
  So far I have not ran into an noise UK made tube yet, three type I own. They were rubust.
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> 2359glenn studios adapter farm!


----------



## Silent One

You had it quite good!


----------



## rosgr63

Xcalibur I recon the ECC34 will be good for your amp driving 5998's.
  It has lower gain than the ECC32, similar sonic qualities, will not be demanding on your transformers and is still affordable.


----------



## Xcalibur255

So, I've spoken with Glenn.  The 6BL7 is officially blessed for use in the amp.  After accounting for the power tubes there is still a whopping 5A available on the 6.3V winding of the transformer is what Glenn told me.  I doubt there is any tube we could put in there that would be a problem.  For those curious about the numbers the heater current on the 6BL7 is 1.5A vs. 0.6A for the 6SN7 or 0.95A for the ECC32/34, and the amplification factor is 14 vs. 20 for the 6SN7 or 32 for the ECC32. 
   
  While you are waiting for your new volume pot, SilentOne, the lower mu of this tube might help out with the 5998 in your amp.  This is what sparked the original idea of using this tube actually.  At any rate my fellow OTL amp owners, you guys really need to try this tube.  It does steer the amp away from being "tubey" sounding somewhat, but it is NOT a dry or harsh sound at all.  In fact in all the test songs I played to compare prominence of sibilance it was actually reduced in all but one track with the 6BL7, a very pleasant surprise.  These tubes are also pretty cheap.  I see lots of examples in the 10-20 dollar range on eBay.
   
  If any of my fellow Glenn amp owners decide to try this out please share your thoughts.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So, I've spoken with Glenn.  The 6BL7 is officially blessed for use in the amp.  After accounting for the power tubes there is still a whopping 5A available on the 6.3V winding of the transformer is what Glenn told me.  I doubt there is any tube we could put in there that would be a problem.  For those curious about the numbers the heater current on the 6BL7 is 1.5A vs. 0.6A for the 6SN7 or 0.95A for the ECC32/34, and the amplification factor is 14 vs. 20 for the 6SN7 or 32 for the ECC32.
> 
> While you are waiting for your new volume pot, SilentOne, the lower mu of this tube might help out with the 5998 in your amp.  This is what sparked the original idea of using this tube actually.  At any rate my fellow OTL amp owners, you guys really need to try this tube.  It does steer the amp away from being "tubey" sounding somewhat, but it is NOT a dry or harsh sound at all.  In fact in all the test songs I played to compare prominence of sibilance it was actually reduced in all but one track with the 6BL7, a very pleasant surprise.  These tubes are also pretty cheap.  I see lots of examples in the 10-20 dollar range on eBay.
> 
> *If any of my fellow Glenn amp owners decide to try this out please share your thoughts.*


 
   
  I do! Though, they may seem to be cheap, I still wanna get the best! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will start shopping in 60 minutes right after my shrimp dinner. We ALL know how I like playing around in the listening room. Ok, Six-Bravo-Lima-Seven...which is the "Go to" company/brand of 6BL7's?
   
  I'm still entertaining deep in the back of my mind getting a pair WE421A's. Was it you who told me earlier this year that they were alright but overpriced?


----------



## Xcalibur255

WE421As are Tung Sol 5998s with tighter section tolerance and slightly more gain.  IMO absolutely not worth the extra money they go for.  I would concentrate on getting a quality noise free pair of 5998 instead.
   
  It seems like, as with most other tubes that didn't "hit it big" only the major USA tube makers produced the 6BL7.  Nearly every tube I saw on eBay was made by either GE or Sylvania.  I have a Sylvania already, and am bidding on a Raytheon (which looks like an older GE before the plate style switched) that seems to have a different plate arrangement so I can check to see if there is any appreciable variation in sound between the brands.
   
  There are a few nice Sylvanias listed which is where I'd start, and I saw one Amplitrex tested GE with the same plates as the Raytheon I'm bidding on, but the section matching was just okay.  Probably more than good enough though and the box looked pristine.
   
  If you see the Ray tube with the starting bid of 4.99..... that's the one I'm bidding on.


----------



## Silent One

What to do, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not use to shopping for tubes so cheap.


----------



## wotts

When I get home from work, I'm going through some more boxes of my tubes. I bet I have more than just the two I found. If not, off to the eBay!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> WE421As are Tung Sol 5998s with tighter section tolerance and slightly more gain.  IMO absolutely not worth the extra money they go for.  I would concentrate on getting a quality noise free pair of 5998 instead.
> 
> It seems like, as with most other tubes that didn't "hit it big" only the major USA tube makers produced the 6BL7.  Nearly every tube I saw on eBay was made by either GE or Sylvania.  I have a Sylvania already, and am bidding on a Raytheon (which looks like an older GE before the plate style switched) that seems to have a different plate arrangement so I can check to see if there is any appreciable variation in sound between the brands.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for your guidance as usual. So prominent a manufacturer Sylvania was back in the day, I'd be hard pressed to find a tube they didn't make! Or attempted to make at one time.
   
  Edit: Please enlighten me - just crossed paths with a few Syl's on eBay with 3 Mica's. Why is this special construction wise? Any benefits to audio or durability only? Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So, I've spoken with Glenn.  The 6BL7 is officially blessed for use in the amp.  After accounting for the power tubes there is still a whopping 5A available on the 6.3V winding of the transformer is what Glenn told me.  I doubt there is any tube we could put in there that would be a problem.  For those curious about the numbers the heater current on the 6BL7 is 1.5A vs. 0.6A for the 6SN7 or 0.95A for the ECC32/34, and the amplification factor is 14 vs. 20 for the 6SN7 or 32 for the ECC32.
> 
> While you are waiting for your new volume pot, SilentOne, the lower mu of this tube might help out with the 5998 in your amp.  This is what sparked the original idea of using this tube actually.  At any rate my fellow OTL amp owners, you guys really need to try this tube.  It does steer the amp away from being "tubey" sounding somewhat, but it is NOT a dry or harsh sound at all.  In fact in all the test songs I played to compare prominence of sibilance it was actually reduced in all but one track with the 6BL7, a very pleasant surprise.  These tubes are also pretty cheap.  I see lots of examples in the 10-20 dollar range on eBay.
> 
> If any of my fellow Glenn amp owners decide to try this out please share your thoughts.


 
  Hello if you want to look up the specs for the transformer go to http://thordarsonmagnetics.com/powerTransformers.php and go to HV plate and filament and look up 26R161
  If a transformer feels hot to you it may not really be to hot you cannot hold your hand on something that is 50 deg C and the transformer is wound with 160 deg C wire. so if
  it is 40 or 50 dec C that is nothing but you cannot hold your hand on it.
  The transformer was originally used for a replacement for a Zenith TV with about 20 tubes hooked to it and it did use a 3DG4 as the rectifier.


----------



## Silent One

Appreciate the info (link), Glenn. by the way, my own 6BL7GTA ships tomorrow morning. Should have it by Friday and will return some initial impressions here next weekend perhaps...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Thanks for the extra info Glenn.  That was pretty much all new to me so I'm glad you posted it.
   
  It's nice we're getting a little life back into this thread.  Now we just need to lure john and clayton back here.


----------



## Silent One

Forget kids & candy, our group could easily be lured by the promise of a vacuum tube.


----------



## Seamaster

Keep quite, and keep tube price down.


----------



## rosgr63

Until we stock up!


----------



## Silent One

This just in...a 19XX Sylvania 6BL7GTA Drive tube to play around with this evening. Installed but will have to wait some three hours before I can pay it proper attention.




   
  The quick & dirty! Played it - tube warrants more hours.


----------



## Silent One

Received my care package today! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glenn packed a 12SN7>6SN7 adapter; Russian rectifier & adapter - 5U8C. Though, the "U" actually looks like a symbol rather than the letter "U." Did I mention I'm sleepy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, first impressions of the big Russian is it sounds good. I'm looking forward to putting hours on it for a week and take note.


----------



## rosgr63

Loooks very impressive!
   
  I hope it doesn't scare your nice plants.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Finding data sheets for Russian tubes seems to take a bit more effort....... but I found one.
   
  This tube kinda scares *me* let alone the plants.  5A heater current, capable of 420mA of rectified current.  It's like having two 5U4Gs in a single glass envelope.  It would toast the transformer in a Woo amp in fairly short order I'm guessing.
   
  It's impressively........ Russian.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Can't wait to hear what you think of it SO.


----------



## rosgr63

xcalibur, it's not intended for amp duty, but for making tea!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> xcalibur, it's not intended for amp duty, but for making tea!


 
   





 Man, this rec is warm! (understatement). Sounds surprisingly good right outta the box. Will know more in about seven days (@ early minimum)...
   
   
  Update: Maybe I should ask Glenn how many consecutive hours I should play this in the OTL amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Ha.  Bet the pot starts boiling pretty fast.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Finding data sheets for Russian tubes seems to take a bit more effort....... but I found one.
> 
> This tube kinda scares *me* let alone the plants.  5A heater current, capable of 420mA of rectified current.  It's like having two 5U4Gs in a single glass envelope.  It would toast the transformer in a Woo amp in fairly short order I'm guessing.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've come to like the overbuilt Russian mentality. The other half of my Aloe Vera plants not pictured. I'm not medically licensed to grow anything else, so...


----------



## wotts

Ooo...that is a sweet looking tube! Can't wait to hear (read?) what you think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I looked for the data sheet when I first learned of the tube, but wasn't able to locate it. Two 5U4G? Wow!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Ha.  Bet the pot starts boiling pretty fast.


 
   
  The delicate green tea I delight in is meant to be consumed warm. This rectifier would surpass a roiling boil in a hot minute! Glenn says he uses this rectifier in his 2A3 amp. And that the Russian has 500 volts B+; 1000 volts plate-to-plate.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Man, this rec is warm! (understatement). Sounds surprisingly good right outta the box. Will know more in about seven days (@ early minimum)...
> 
> 
> Update: Maybe I should ask Glenn how many consecutive hours I should play this in the OTL amp.


 

 I think 5A is the limit on the transformer for the rectifier.  I recall Glenn saying that to me once a while ago....... I think.  It's late.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Ooo...that is a sweet looking tube! Can't wait to hear (read?) what you think.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 How's your amp coming along btw?  Hopefully you can join us in the tube experimenting fun soon.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> How's your amp coming along btw?  Hopefully you can join us in the tube experimenting fun soon.


 
   
   
  I haven't heard yet, but I expect to soon. I know Glenn was working adapters and such. I hadn't asked him about it other than to let him know I was still interested after he had recovered some. It worked out well as I ended up haveing to buy tires with my amp money about a month ago. I'm ready to go now though.
   
  I've already got a pair of 5998s, a few of the _Mighty USAF-596_ and misc 6SN7 around. Not sure what all else to get, but I'm ready to roll.


----------



## Silent One

_The Russian tubes are cheap, I might add. Who doesn't like to save money?!_


----------



## wotts

$54 for ten shipped sounds like a deal....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> $54 for ten shipped sounds like a deal....


 
  Friday night, I'll be enjoying a split listening session - first half of the night the OTL amp/D7000; overnight the SX-D7000/HE-6.


----------



## wotts

I'll be at work, so Audioengine A5 and Pandora, wooooo!
   
  I'm dying to get some proper headphone time. I'm going to squeeze in the 2265B and W3000 shortly.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I'll be at work, so Audioengine A5 and Pandora, wooooo!
> 
> I'm dying to get some proper headphone time.* I'm going to squeeze in the 2265B and W3000 shortly.*


 
   
  Honey might have to bop you over the head to get your attention this weekend! That's a fine looking pairing.
   
   
  Update: now approaching 8 hours on the Russian 5U8C without burning down the house. Will move in for a night shot this weekend. A pix for the Insurance Agent?


----------



## wotts

I had to take pictures of the tube hoard for insurance purposes. I should find those, lol.
   
  Off to fire up the Marantz! Then sleep!


----------



## Silent One

TGIF!


----------



## 2359glenn

How do you like the sound of the 5U8C so far?? There is no problem running that tube in that amp as long as you want.
I wouldn't try it in another amp that you don't know if the 5 volt winding can handle that much current.


----------



## Silent One

I like it so far. But, it is early. I will be spending the weekend just letting the music play, without regard to analysis. Next week, I'll start paying close attention to the tube with respect to my preferences, as well as in contrast to the 3DG4 & USAF-596 rectifiers. 
   
  The BIG Russian is an interesting tube, to be sure. I am fortunate to host a marvel of glass such as this one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Went 9 hours 12 hours overnight - time for sleep! Just finished breakfast. Last song of the morning: Sly & The Family Stone - "Sex Machine" 13:49   (Year 1969).


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've come to like to overbuilt Russian mentality. The other half of my Aloe Vera plants not pictured. I'm not medically licensed to grow anything else, so...


 
   
  That Aloe Vera plant will come in handy in case you get singed by that Russian missile of a tube.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You know that's right! I'd even seek reimbursement from my Health Insurer.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





wotts said:


> $54 for ten shipped sounds like a deal....


 
  Or $2.50 each for lightly used.


----------



## Xcalibur255

For anybody whose curiosity might have been piqued by the 6BL7 as a driver, I can report that the two different plate styles do sound different.  Very, very different actually, to the point where I'm going to get a second tube of the flat plate style just to verify the difference.
   
  In a nutshell, the ones with the cross type plates have really impressive resolution and detail but sound sonically flawed in terms of staging and general presentation.  It feels like part of the stage is missing would be one way to describe it, it is just unnatural.  The type with the wide flat plates sound more like a 6SN7 with a more intimate and closed in presentation and much better bass control and note articulation.  It images okay but not as well as a 6SN7, but at least it doesn't sound broken like the other style of the tube does.  It has great tone, maybe the best I've heard, and sounds balanced and natural with great bass drive. 
   
  Of the two the cross plate is a curiosity, one I think people should hear at least once because it reveals details in a recording in a way I've never heard before.  Almost like the music is being dissected and laid out for you without respect for how it originally sounded in the room it was recorded in.  Great for revealing layers but bad for sounding...... well, musically correct.  The flat plate style I think is a truly viable alternative to the 6SN7 for full time use.  It is a nice sounding tube all around and has better bass than any 6SN7 I own along with great detail and correctness of tone.  The soundstage and imaging are just okay, but it doesn't hurt the presentation much.  More like the recording was moved to a smaller venue so to speak.  Both types have trouble presenting the stereo image correctly in three dimensional space, but the flat plate style at least manages to not sound troubled in this area where as the cross plate type sound broken in this regard.
   
  I'm still encouraging other owners to give the tube a try.  They're cheap and have potential.


----------



## Silent One

My plates look wide with a column on either side. Perhaps, the flat-plate construction you speak of? If not too much trouble, when you've the chance this weekend, could you post pix showing the two different constructions? This would be helpful.


----------



## Xcalibur255

For right now some eBay examples might help illustrate.
   
  The cross plate looks like this:
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RCA-6BL7-GT-D-Getter-Blackpts-Stereo-Tube-n2-/180922541756?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a1fd2e6bc
   
  The flat plate looks like this:
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-unused-Dumont-6BL7-GT-3-Mica-Stereo-Tube-/400311265358?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5d3469284e
   
  Another view:
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-USA-6BL7GT-Black-Ribbed-Plate-Top-Getter-6BL7-/150824247529?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item231dd360e9
   
  I can take a photo of mine if you want, but this should show the difference enough to identify.  They're quite different looking.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> For right now some eBay examples might help illustrate.
> 
> The cross plate looks like this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RCA-6BL7-GT-D-Getter-Blackpts-Stereo-Tube-n2-/180922541756?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a1fd2e6bc
> ...


 
   
  This works, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 no need to shoot up your living room! Will go check it out in just minutes. Thanks for the lesson.
   
   
  Update:  My Sylvania's are the cross type plates. Apparently, I'm gonna need to play out some cobwebs. I've the feeling this tube has been sitting awhile. Let's see what the week coming holds as promise.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think all of that plate type are GTA tubes, it was common to brand some GT still for customers who requested or ordered GT even though electrically it was a GTA.  The flat plate seems to be the original version of the tube.  Less hyper detailed, but it sounds more musical and more "right" and therefore becomes the better choice.
   
  BTW those links were just for their photos, not necessarily buying suggestions.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I highly recommend the flat plate type for anybody wanting to try something new and a bit different.  No 6SN7 can touch its bass abilities, and it performs well in many other areas too.  Maybe this is only applicable to me though because my amp is modded.


----------



## rosgr63

I think the NU and Sylvania 6SN7W have a strong bass.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I have both of those tubes.  This 6BL7 will clobber either of them in the bass department.  It doesn't just have better drive, it has much better speed and control too.  That's what my ears are telling me at least.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've been having the hardest time nailing down something that has felt "off" about both types of 6BL7, but then I realized I had not yet tried any live recordings with the tubes.  That clarified things very quickly.  These tubes suck at re-creating the space a song was recorded, and at capturing the sense of space in the venue.  It's amazing how good the tube is at note separation when there is so little air or space between those notes.  This tube might have to wear one trick pony status because of this flaw, but its still fun to listen to on occasion because of the excellent low level detail and other good qualities.
   
  Worth the $10 without any doubt.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I've been having the hardest time nailing down something that has felt "off" about both types of 6BL7, but then I realized I had not yet tried any live recordings with the tubes.  That clarified things very quickly.  These tubes suck at re-creating the space a song was recorded, and at capturing the sense of space in the venue.  It's amazing how good the tube is at note separation when there is so little air or space between those notes.  This tube might have to wear one trick pony status because of this flaw, but its still fun to listen to on occasion because of the excellent low level detail and other good qualities.
> 
> Worth the $10 without any doubt.


 
   
  I tried going _premium_ first time out...didn't work out. It would not hit me that our amps are different, let alone the rest of our gear until after my purchase. But I like adventure and took the shot! Not worried. One thing I noticed about all my 6SN7 tubes and that's each time I made a change to my system, my opinion of them changed. My top 5 tubes would sometimes change in order of preference, so I always made sure to revisit them. 
   
  When I finally got the TS-BGRP's straight, they never relinquished the top spot in either the Woo or the OTL amp. The Raytheon and RCA Grey Glass often traded places for second and third.


----------



## rosgr63

Experimentation, trial and error is part of our hobby.
  And there is only one way to find out, try it yourself.
   
  I think you've done very well xcalibur.
   
  SO has ventured even further, now I am waiting for the 12SN7 to be throned so he can become a 6SN7 addict again!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Experimentation, trial and error is part of our hobby.
> And there is only one way to find out, try it yourself.
> 
> I think you've done very well xcalibur.
> ...


 
   
*You...have....no.......idea!* But first, I'm currently in the middle of a shootout: 5U8C vs USAF-596. The BIG Russian has surprised me the last few nights. Not only is it good, it takes the title of best value away from my beloved Mighty 596 - what you pay and what you get. Will return some impressions likely Monday night; Tuesday night tonight! In short, will seek to buy tube and adapter from Glenn this week.
   
  Only thing is, I'm not sure what he's listening to if this came from his 2A3 rig. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now, where were we...
   
  ...ah yes, yesterday I entered serious talks with Glenn for a new tube and adapter._ _After listening to his opinion and the options for them with my amp, he's going to assemble for me a voltage quadrupler - 6.3v in and 25.2v out, so I can feature  13D1/25SN7/1633 tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*


----------



## Silent One

_System update..._
   
   
   
  29 JUILLET 2012
   
  D7000 @ 1,410 hrs
  W4S DAC-1 @ 1,365 hrs
  Silver Hawk (OTL) @ 323 hrs


----------



## john57

Originally when Glenn built my amp the transformer had a 24v tap for the 13D1 tubes. However, Glenn decided that since 6SN7 was more popular the 24v tap was left unused in my amp. It seems that we gone full circle back to the original Glenn idea of using the 24v tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Originally when Glenn built my amp the transformer had a 24v tap for the 13D1 tubes. However, Glenn decided that since 6SN7 was more popular the 24v tap was left unused in my amp. It seems that we gone full circle back to the original Glenn idea of using the 24v tubes.


 
   
  I had a HUGE grin on my face when Glenn shared this with me. Thinking, if anyone else makes this request, he's gonna roll his eyes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My best drive tube to date is the TS-BGRP VT-231/6SN7. Anything in your 12SN7 series or my upcoming 25SN7 series will be a far cheaper investment. I'm excited at the adventure!


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's become pretty obvious to me through some talks that we would have been better off trusting Glenn and letting the amp be designed for the 13D1 in the first place, but it's only natural to want to stick with what is proven and well known.  That, and I think tube rolling is a big part of owning a tube amp, at least it is today for modern tube amp owners and the problem with the 13D1 is that they all apparently come the same way and all from Brimar.  The allure of the 6SN7 is that there are different sounding types to suit every personal preference, even if the tube itself can be outperformed by other choices.
   
  Once the experimentation phase is over its natural to want to just stick with the best, so we're coming right back to what the amp was supposed to have started with now.
   
  On the 6BL7 front the flat plate tube is getting noisier so I'm replacing it with another one.  I've begun to know beforehand if a tube is going to work well in the amp or not.  If I rap my knuckle gently on the glass and can feel the plates vibrate inside I know the tube is going to hum in the amp.  I did this to my T-plate Sylvania 6SN7 and the tube was solid as a rock, nothing reacted to the tap.  This tube is dead quiet at all times and in all regards (no audible microphonics, no reaction to vibration in the chassis).  Maybe its unfair to say the amp is fussy about tubes because that's not quite right.  It just needs a tube that isn't defective junk and unfortunately a lot of the NOS tubes that still exist are just that, likely the reason why they survived instead of being used up in equipment.


----------



## Silent One

Calling out NOS tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What an indictment...we love it! This thread could use shaking up a bit, as variety can be stimulating. The way you're able to skillfully rap your knuckles on glass just so, maybe we should call you Dr. X! 
   
  I'm just learning about the amp's original design. And I do agree with john57 wanting to feature the 6SN7 series. For me, it's going to work out just fine because the voltage doubler & quadrupler will allow me to roll 6's as usual when the mood strikes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Let's see, we went from from hearing about tubes getting clobbered to NOS tubes getting indicted...what a weekend! Great commentary, Xcalibur255!


----------



## Silent One

_The Russians are coming..._
   
  Listening to Donald Fagen's "New Frontier" (The Nightfly) late last night, I though about Russian tubes and potential synergy. I lack a Russian (Svetlana) drive tube, but tonight will roll in the Svetlana power tubes to see if there's any synergy with the Russian rectifier.
   
"Yes we're gonna have a wingding
A summer smoker underground
It's just a dugout that my dad built
In case the reds decide to push the button down
We've got provisions and lots of beer
The key word is survival on the new frontier..."
   
   
  ...
  Four hours invested. Rollin' power tubes. Drive tubes. All in my quest to see if pairing them with the new rectifier would change my preference with these tubes. Now back to my original and preferred line-up without further comment..._Next!_


----------



## Silent One

Dispatcher: _Attention all units...we have a witness report of multiple shots fired...in the 800 block of Silent St. & Rectifier Ct...any available units proceed with caution...and watch out for broken glass!_
   
   
  Shootout:  3DG4 vs USAF-596 vs 5U8C? It's going down! Well, it just did actually. But I'll need a bit more time on the other side of sleep before returning with brief impressions..._tonight!_


----------



## rosgr63

Waiting, don't be too long!


----------



## Silent One

*Silent notes made audible...and visible.*
   
   
  There are some reviews that are carefully thought out, in depth and well executed. This is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the other one, more like highlights really. I've had some wonderful listening sessions with the USAF-596 and 3DG4 rectifiers and can honestly say I know them. It wouldn't really be fair to the newest rectifier, the 5U8C, to make the same claim and formally review them at this time.
   
  The three contenders have their differences, but are not that distant from one another. Slight in the moment heard, but far more telling over time, say 20 minutes in versus 2 hours in. And each of the recs were supported by a pair of 5998's and a TS-BGRP drive tube. I only own a single pair of premium cans, so the re-cabled D7000 it is!
   
  All three recs can shovel a bit, bringing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the Bass! The 3DG4 returned some big beautiful Bass, as did the 5U8C. The _Mighty 596_ appeared to have a bit less, but it actually has a bit better speed and refined Bass. This was also important in the overall balance of the presentation between all of the sounds on stage, when listening to the '596.'
   
  The three share similar size in sound stage with respect to height, width but only sometimes in depth. Same for placement and spacing of voices and instruments. All had good detail and decay as well. However, it is largely timbre that eventually separated them enough for my preferred ranking:
   
  1. USAF-596
  2. 5U8C
  3. 3DG4
   
  Falling to third, the 3DG4 could do most nights with me without complaint. Decent Bass, Mid-range & Treble. Instrumentation is good, though vocals lacked some definition. Has enough clarity to get by, but once another rec is rolled in that does it better, then it becomes a complaint.
   
  The 5U8C fought a hard and worthy battle for the number one spot in my rotation and has my respect. And I'm happy to have it in rotation as a permanent member. The sound is bold; kicked up. However, sometimes a little too much, too often. Recordings sound more tizzy with Treble and that's not quite right. To give an example, think of a "Loudness" switch on either a receiver or portable, though not to that degree. But shows what I mean by "kicked up!"
   
  This is done to enhance the Bass & Treble that normally would only be realized at normal to higher volume but lost at very low listening levels. The 5U8C has this slight boosted sound all of the time. Yet, it still retains clear vocals and definition, so no problems there. Also, the presentation sounds fuller. And the overall background space to the presentation and in between notes seem more dense. Again, all of these differences are slight. 
   
  I played some older recordings from the '50's & '60's and WOWWW! The sound was deliciously expansive on some Cannonball, Ella, Dinah, Nancy, Miles, Astrud....whew! _A gorgeous sound it was_. This tube definitely stays. But more importantly, each time I change something in the system, my tube preferences can easily change. So, better to be stocked. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And coming in last to be mentioned, but first in the rotation, my beloved USAF-596. Each time I listened to the other two recs, it'd always appear in the beginning that this tube will end up taking the second or third ranking for preferred slots. But over the course of four days, whenever I listened to it and nearly any and all tracks inside the music library, it always shone the longer I listened. 
   
  Of the three, to me it returns the best balance of low-mids-highs and dynamics. It comes off as a bit less bold and robust as the other two. I'd say it sounds more refined and polished, leaving me with a relaxed presentation. The other two seemed aggressive at times. I also preferred the overall tone with the USAF-596. Yes, timbre definitely had a hand in their separation.


----------



## rosgr63

Great review SO, thanks.
  So the USAF-596 is here to stay!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Great review SO, thanks.
> So the USAF-596 is here to stay!


 
   
  While listening to the 5U8C every night for a few nights, and sometimes twice a day, I thought the _Mighty 596_ would have to step down. I'm surprised it even works in the OTL amp. And glad it does, since I already own the tube. Glenn suggested it just barely makes the cut - some tubes aren't robust enough.


----------



## Silent One

john57, Xcalibur255 and Clayton SF --
   
  Regarding the custom built OTL amp, any of you have 500-700 hours in the books? Any more sonic cap improvements up to this stage from 335 hours?


----------



## john57

At the 600 mark I did not noticed any more changes except that the tubes are starting to age a bit which can change the sound tinny bit.
   
  John


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, John. Perhaps, I'll cross the 500 hour threshold under an autumn moon..._paying it close attention along the way._


----------



## Clayton SF

I am sorry to say that I had stopped keeping tabs on the hours a long time ago so I don't know how many I've logged. I am enjoying the ride though. I'm loving that fact that I only need one 6SN7.


----------



## Silent One

A single 6SN7 drive tube returns HUGE savings on premium tubes. And if one should go bad...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> john57, Xcalibur255 and Clayton SF --
> 
> Regarding the custom built OTL amp, any of you have 500-700 hours in the books? Any more sonic cap improvements up to this stage from 335 hours?


 

 I'm with Clayton, I don't really keep tabs on hours at all.  I consider my amp to be sonically stable though, and have felt that way for a while now.  Most of the changes happened in the first two months.
   
  Good write up on the tubes btw.  Does the Soviet Sledgehammer generate a ton of heat?  I'll be trying one out for myself soon, along with a couple of other things.


----------



## john57

I tried the_ 5U8C _ealier this year when Glenn lend it to me and felt it was to much and the heater looks like something from a reactor core.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 Yeah, it does...kinda toasty up in here! Though, I sit a mere 24" from it, either I've gotten use to the heat or believed it would be even hotter. And then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 there's autumn looming. Things will be ok, as I swap it in and out to compliment the USAF-596 here and there. I'm still surprised @ the _Mighty 596! _I keep thinking its days are numbered. But it refuses to leave the starting lineup. Fiesty...I like that in a tube! I will add, that with the w-i-d-e variety of recordings ranging from the good, bad & the ugly, all of the recs will see duty lending me a bit more flexibility.
   
  I wouldn't expect anyone to really keep track of usage by time. I did think that you all would be able to "ball park" it, having an idea. I only keep track because...wait, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not sure why any longer. Perhaps, another post, another day. Good habits, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 they die hard!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I tried the_ 5U8C _ealier this year when Glenn lend it to me and felt it was to much and the heater looks like something from a reactor core.


 
   
  In-session with the lovely Dinah Washington...
   
   
  Now that it's going to stay, I'm going to hook up the TT this weekend and see what kind of sound is returned.


----------



## wotts

I think I need to PM Glenn and ask for the 5U8C adapter as well! Tube rolling sounds like so much fun. I haven't really had the opportunity with the other amps I have.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> my preferred ranking:
> 
> 1. USAF-596


 
   
  It's a hard one to resist..._ no matter how hard we try... _thanks for the effort!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  On 11 October, 2012, I'm going to have to have a 1 year celebration of owning this fine tube.


----------



## Clayton SF

So many adapters so many tubes so little time.
  Rolling and rolling again.
   
  Thank you SO.
  Thank you Glenn.
  Thank you =C= Russia.
  Thank you RCA
  Thank you GE
  Thank you __________.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So many adapters so many tubes so little time.
> Rolling and rolling again.
> 
> Thank you SO.
> ...


 
   
   
  Looking good! What are the GE tubes?


----------



## john57

The GE tubes are along my favorite power tubes. What does the 6CG7 driver tube brings to the table?


----------



## Clayton SF

The 6AS7GA tubes are my favorites as well. I also own a pair of 6080 Mullards but I prefer the GEs to them because they are dedicated workhorses with very low microphonics.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





john57 said:


> The GE tubes are along my favorite power tubes. What does the 6CG7 driver tube brings to the table?


 
   
  You're good to be able to identify the 6CG7.
   
  I just popped it in and right now it seems a little dry sounding but hopefully it will age well. The 6CG7s are RCA clear tops. Love the look too.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Whatever happened with the ECC40 I wonder?  I think rosgr63 was on to something when he mentioned that the ECC34 might work very well in this amp too.
   
  I'll have a few things to share too fairly shortly I'm hoping.
   
  I had forgotten all about the 6CG7, it does seem to be substitutable in a lot of 6SN7 circuits.


----------



## rosgr63

I blame the Olympics xcalibur, sorry.
   
  I received Glenn's ECC40 to 6SN7 adaptors but need to test a couple of tubes first to make sure all is well.
   
  I have tested 6CG7/6FQ7, 12AV7/12AZ7 and the 2C51 family of tubes instead of a 6SN7.
   
  The 6CG7's were nothing special, some 2C51's were good and the ECC40 still under evaluation.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So many adapters so many tubes so little time.
> Rolling and rolling again.
> 
> Thank you SO.
> ...


 




  Looks like when you return, I might be able to offer you tubes for chocolate! I'm curious to hear more about the 6CG7. Will you have enough time to get in before Jet Setting?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Whatever happened with the ECC40 I wonder?  I think rosgr63 was on to something when he mentioned that the ECC34 might work very well in this amp too.
> 
> *I'll have a few things to share too fairly shortly I'm hoping.*
> 
> I had forgotten all about the 6CG7, it does seem to be substitutable in a lot of 6SN7 circuits.


 




   
  Hmmm...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 could it be Xcalibur255 slipped under the radar and auditioned the _Mighty 596?!_


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Looks like when you return, I might be able to offer you tubes for chocolate! I'm curious to hear more about the 6CG7. Will you have enough time to get in before Jet Setting?


 
   
   
   
   
  The 6CG7 is a 6SN7 in a 9 pin bottle.
  It does not match it though for sound IMHO.
   
  The 12AV7/12AZ7 drive the 6AS7G type tubes very nicely as they have a hgher gain than the 6SN7.


----------



## Silent One

Appreciate the knowledge (and $$$ saved). I'm really excited about the forthcoming voltage quadrupler headed this way!


----------



## Silent One

To: The valued membership here -
   
  With a rejuvenated Glenn returning to his audio pursuits, I was considering a change to the thread's title. I'm going to seek his view on the matter after I have lunch (code for when I wake up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). Meanwhile, I would love to get your thoughts as well. Please send me a PM sometime over the weekend...thanks.
   
   
  Update: wotts just sent me a great reminder about the possibility of moving the thread from the DIY section to Equipment Forums> Headphone amps section.


----------



## rosgr63

SO you are very considerate and caring, thank you.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> SO you are very considerate and caring, thank you.


 
   





 Appreciate your kindness. I'm just a custodian, really. Others like yourself, are making some great contributions in this thread..._with more still to come._


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Appreciate the knowledge (and $$$ saved). I'm really excited about the forthcoming *voltage quadrupler *headed this way!


 
   
  I assume this is for the 25xx (I forget the number) tube you mentioned before?


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Appreciate your kindness. I'm just a custodian, really. Others like yourself, are making some great contributions in this thread..._with more still to come._


 
   
  Hopefully this is the beginning for more and better to come.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, 13D1/25SN7/1633 tubes.


----------



## rosgr63

There is always the 13D2 waiting........


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> There is always the 13D2 waiting........


 
   





 With whose money? Upon looking a bit closer, I now realize what the "D" & "2" stand for in this tube's description. Since I can't rub *2* nickels together, I'm considered *D*estitute!


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for the tip, always wondered what the Brimar codes meant.


----------



## Silent One

Surely, you have one or more in your collection...waiting for an amp that could take them! Your advice for me to wait and see what type of tubes I'll feature, before running off buying a tube tester is wise. BIG thanks! In all my excitement, it was easy to overlook the obvious...


----------



## rosgr63

I do actually, but they are nothing special as fas as their audio qualites are concerned.


----------



## wotts

I think I'm going to go back through the thread and find what all tubes/adapters are being used to complie a list. Everyday it seems as though something new is being tried out!
   
  That being said, don't expect me to get it done quickly!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm a little busy with work...and a new toy...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I do actually, but they are nothing special as fas as their audio qualites are concerned.


 
   
  Are you indicting the series or just the particular tubes you have, regarding audio qualities?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I think I'm going to go back through the thread and find what all tubes/adapters are being used to complie a list. Everyday it seems as though something new is being tried out!
> 
> That being said, don't expect me to get it done quickly!
> 
> ...


 
   
  @ 40 pages, no time would be better than now. Imagine, if you had the same ambition for the Woo thread and started reading back this weekend.


----------



## wotts

I have read through the enirety of the Woo Thread. It took me two weeks at that time, probably around 15000 posts. Wealth of impressions and trials there..
   
  Well, I guess there's no time like the present!


----------



## 2359glenn

Hello Woots
   
  I will supply a 5U8 tube and adapter with the amp.


----------



## wotts

Thanks so much Glenn!
   
  EDIT:  I didn't read your post very well. I will only need the adapter - I have one the tubes handy. I'd rather someone else get the chance to use it. Thanks again boss!


----------



## Silent One

I'm currently on hiatus for 2-3 days, allowing my inner ears to expand. Will jump right back in to audio sometime Saturday night, looking for new impressions. _This time with vinyl._


----------



## wotts

Re-read all 41 pages and I have a spreadsheet! Send me a PM if you'd like to proof it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Thanks so much Glenn!
> 
> EDIT:  I didn't read your post very well. I will only need the adapter - I have one the tubes handy. I'd rather someone else get the chance to use it. Thanks again boss!


 
   
  You have a 5U8C?


----------



## Silent One

_"Re-read all 41 pages and I have a spreadsheet! Send me a PM if you'd like to proof it."_
   
   
  Great...let's investigate!


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You have a 5U8C?


 
   
  Yeah. With all the talk, I jumped the gun and bought one.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _"Re-read all 41 pages and I have a spreadsheet! Send me a PM if you'd like to proof it."_
> 
> 
> Great...let's investigate!


 
  PM sent.


----------



## Silent One

FYI
   
  To reflect our new mission, I updated the thread's title and opening paragraph.


----------



## Xcalibur255

SO do you have a Sylvania made 3DG4 or are yours all GE tubes?


----------



## Silent One

I'm thinking GE...checking now! Yes, both are GE.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The Sylvania ones are better, they have better tone.  I thought the GE sounded dry.
   
  I'm listening to the 5U8C now.  I see why you're enthusiastic.  I like it so far myself.  It sounds..... maybe "wetter" is the term.  Really brings the emotion out of vocals in a good way.  It also seems a bit looser in general, it's most noticable at the top and bottom.  I cued a Miles Davis track and noticed right off that the bass strings sounded less textured and the high hats seemed to run together a bit.  It's subtle though, the tube still sounds good and nicely detailed.  Could very well be chalked up to tube newness too, and just in this hour it seems like it has improved a touch.  I don't sense better drive but the whole presentation is bigger and more open.  The overall dynamic range might be better too, but it takes the right listening sessions for me to key in on those things so I'm not quite sure yet.  The 3DG4 always sounded more intimate to me, but I don't mind that so long as the note separation is good and the sense of ambiance isn't lost.  The 5U8C honestly has a lot of 5U4G sound to it really.  I hit a few of my sibilance test tracks.  A couple sounded no better or worse, one was worse and a couple were better.  It sounds every so slightly more "lit up" to me which lines up with what you were hearing too I think.  It was initially coming across as greater treble energy but the feeling is fading as the tube runs longer.  The biggest drawback is that the treble definition seems poorer than that of the 3DG4 but as I mentioned above its not a glaring fault just a subtle difference.  The bass is about on par, maybe a touch looser with slightly more impact sometimes.  The tube is still new, maybe it isn't fair to judge resolution right now, but I can say that right now it still sounds good.
   
  I think I will do a quick A - B - A with the 3DG4 to confirm what I'm hearing, then I'm moving on to the other goodies Glenn sent me to test out.  I'll try and get my lazy butt in gear to find my camera and take a picture after I have some listening impressions of everything.  I don't want to give rushed listening impressions so I'll probably sit on it for a few days.
   
  Once I listen to the 3DG4 again I'll update my impressions if the contrast brings anything new to light for me.


----------



## Silent One

3DG4 tube interrupted.
   
  Earlier this spring, I remember being curious about trying other 3DG4 tubes in hopes of getting something premium. Just before I went looking, I asked Glenn about the possibility of trying the '596.' And hadn't looked back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now, would be a good time for me to order one (Sylvania 3DG4) and check it out. Our amps have given me more affordable options versus my previous tube amp.
   
  I hear you're rolling the Russian.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder if my amp is the only one in the wild without the "X" mod. I bet it would move the Russian up a step. Would love to hear your impressions...and see pix!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Actually I'm pretty sure mine is the unique one still.  Unless Clayton or john sent theirs back for the mod too and didn't say anything.  Wotts is going to get it but I think he is still in anticipation. 
   
  You're still sending yours to Glenn to get that mod if I'm not mistaken right?  Since you seem to be using the 5998 pretty much full time anyway it is without a doubt worth it. 
   
  If you read my long post in the last few minutes you might want to skim again since I edited it some.


----------



## john57

When I tired the 5U8C tube from Glenn, I find it looser overhaul and a bit softer to instruments that have sharp peaks like the initial impact in drums using a hard mallet. For me I did not like the results and was another reason I send the tube back to Glenn. This was before the tube heater ground lifter mod that Glenn did.


----------



## Silent One

@ Xcalibur255
   
  I returned to the previous page with interest. Didn't see the 5U8C lying about on the floor with chalk drawn around it, so...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it seems you're getting through just fine and need a little time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Honestly I find the two pretty close overall.  I've also only tried it with one driver tube, the Sylvania GT.  Once I share findings with the other tubes Glenn sent me I'll return to the 5U8C and see how it pairs with some other drivers.  I'm betting it would get along very well with the Ken Rad and maybe the Raytheons.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> When I tired the 5U8C tube from Glenn, I find it looser overhaul and a bit softer to instruments that have sharp peaks like the initial impact in drums using a hard mallet. For me I did not like the results and was another reason I send the tube back to Glenn. This was before the tube heater ground lifter mod that Glenn did.


 
  With the ground mod in place, will curiosity bring the 5U8C back or you're done with that experiment?


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Wotts is going to get it but I think he is still in anticipation.


 
   
  My amp will include the "X" mod and a stepped attenuator. And yes, anticipating!
   
   
  Have any of you used the 6F8G at all? I know it was popular with the Woos and have thought about trying it out.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Honestly I find the two pretty close overall.  I've also only tried it with one driver tube, the Sylvania GT.  Once I share findings with the other tubes Glenn sent me I'll return to the 5U8C and see how it pairs with some other drivers.  I'm betting it would get along very well with the Ken Rad and maybe the Raytheons.


 
  When I connect my TT tomorrow night, I might as well throw in a few more drive tubes: Fivre 6SN7GT; ITT 6SN7GTB; Raytheon 6SN7W; RCA Gray Glass 6SN7GT. Admittedly, I didn't make it too far down the line when pairing the Russian. More focused was placed on rolling power tubes with the Russian.
   
  Although, my TS-BGRP's are my best, an open mind paired with the previously mentioned drive tubes might yield something.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have a pair of RCA 6F8G's to try but lack an adapter. But, now that I'm moving up in class, I'll likely skip over this stop.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wotts said:


> My amp will include the "X" mod and a stepped attenuator. And yes, anticipating!
> 
> 
> Have any of you used the 6F8G at all? I know it was popular with the Woos and have thought about trying it out.


 

 I haven't but they are 6SN7 in an older glass package, they sound the same as their 6SN7 equivalents.  The big scoop on them was that it was a cheaper way to get a round plate tube but now that everybody knows about it that isn't true anymore.


----------



## Clayton SF

Mine hasn't been modded. Stock Glenn, I presume, unless he upped the specs and made that the norm.
   
  I've used a Tung-Sol grey glass 6F8G. Its gain was reduced and slightly noisy for the first hour but after that it was really nice. I have since gone with some choice 6SN7s since buying them in singles is so much easier than the highway-robbery matched pairs that are now on fleabay. Plus all of the tubes look so cool with the Russian Rocket and its launch-platform adapter base.


----------



## john57

Yes I have a few 6F8G tubes just just for the same reason, round plates Some were noisy but have a few that are quiet.


----------



## wotts

Thanks for the info gents. I'll stick to the 6SN7s I think - I already have a bunch of them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

So I've listened to most of the same tracks again with the 3DG4 (Sylvania).  I do think I prefer the 3DG4 over the new russian.  Now that I can contrast them, the 3DG4 does seem to run into a bit of a dynamic wall in places where the 5U8C does not.  It seems to "shout" sometimes where the russian did not so to speak.  In most other ways the 3DG4 has the edge in definition and control.  Ideally I'd like a tube that combined the 3DG4 sound with the russian's bigger sense of space and slightly more sultry presentation, but once I'm used to a certain level of resolution and transient response it's hard to take a step back down and that is exactly what the 5U8C is compared to the 3DG4.  It is only a small step but its audible nevertheless.  A person whose priorities are aligned differently than mine might easily take the russian's slightly more romantic and enveloping sound over the rather "cut and dried" presentation of the 3DG4.  This doesn't mean I don't like the 5U8C, because I do.  There is some music in my library where I would take it over the 3DG4 in an instant because it pulls the emotion from those songs in a really lovely way.  They're both great tubes and great sounds, I'll gladly keep both in the stable.
   
  It's worth nothing, too, that I never heard any of the typical buzzing I usually hear from the 5998s while I had the 5U8C in the amp.  Maybe it was a coincidence because there are times when they don't buzz as much, but it was as quiet as I can remember the background being on the amp since I started using 5998 tubes.
   
  Take all this with a grain of salt.  I've been known to have changes of heart with more time and rolling.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It seems like the sound I'm really looking for always seems to be a combination of two different things I've forced to choose between.


----------



## Silent One

I initially found the 5U8C to have a large and open presentation, but I had no idea. It wasn't until I got around to playing some older recordings a couple of days later and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...we're talking really really BIG. If the tube could just deliver a bit more refinement, I'd call my friends up and have a pot luck!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So I've listened to most of the same tracks again with the 3DG4 (Sylvania).  I do think I prefer the 3DG4 over the new russian.  Now that I can contrast them, the 3DG4 does seem to run into a bit of a dynamic wall in places where the 5U8C does not.  It seems to "shout" sometimes where the russian did not so to speak.  In most other ways the 3DG4 has the edge in definition and control.  Ideally I'd like a tube that combined the 3DG4 sound with the russian's bigger sense of space and slightly more sultry presentation, but once I'm used to a certain level of resolution and transient response it's hard to take a step back down and that is exactly what the 5U8C is compared to the 3DG4.  It is only a small step but its audible nevertheless.  A person whose priorities are aligned differently than mine might easily take the russian's slightly more romantic and enveloping sound over the rather "cut and dried" presentation of the 3DG4.  This doesn't mean I don't like the 5U8C, because I do.  There is some music in my library where I would take it over the 3DG4 in an instant because it pulls the emotion from those songs in a really lovely way.  They're both great tubes and great sounds, I'll gladly keep both in the stable.
> 
> It's worth nothing, too, that I never heard any of the typical buzzing I usually hear from the 5998s while I had the 5U8C in the amp.  Maybe it was a coincidence because there are times when they don't buzz as much, but it was as quiet as I can remember the background being on the amp since I started using 5998 tubes.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The voltage drop in the 5U8C is similar to that of a 5U4GB or 596 but can handle much more current. So the B+ voltage will be a bit lower with the 5U8C then with a 3DG4.
  With the 6AS7s sucking up 100ma each it doesn't leave many options for the rectifier. Most cannot handle this much current continuously with out burning out definitely not a 5U4G.
  It gives more options for tube rolling
       Next you should try the 6AH7 Ken-Rad round plate as the driver at first I didn't like it at all but before I sent it to you and I tried it again it didn't sound to bad.
  I have to look I know I have more 6AH7s around here.


----------



## rosgr63

SO thanks for the title and introduction updates. 
   
  Wotts I would encourage you to try some 6F8G with Glenn's adaptors.
   
  Not all have the same plates as the 6SN7's.
  There are 5 different styles of plates some are not the same with the 6SN7 plates and some sound different IMHO, worth trying for sure.
   
   More info:http://www.head-fi.org/t/479031/6sn7-tube-addicts/1350#post_7872786


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> SO thanks for the title and introduction updates.
> 
> Wotts I would encourage you to try some 6F8G with Glenn's adaptors.
> 
> ...


 
   
  You're most welcome. I felt the former opening paragraph was appropriate in Glenn's absence. But now, not only is he back, he's back in a BIG way!
   
  At this writing, I'm trying to put a finish to an overnight session - currently jammin' Earth, Wind & Fire - "Mighty Mighty." I put the Russian back and have the Fivre Brown Base 6SN7GT in the driver's seat. I sampled the RCA Gray Glass 6SN7GT; Raytheon 6SN7W, with the ITT 6SN7GTB & GE 6SN7GTA remaining to be paired with the 5U8C.
   
  May leave the last two for later tonight, getting sleepy. And will bang out a few thoughts on my preview at that time.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> SO thanks for the title and introduction updates.
> 
> Wotts I would encourage you to try some 6F8G with Glenn's adaptors.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The voltage drop in the 5U8C is similar to that of a 5U4GB or 596 but can handle much more current. So the B+ voltage will be a bit lower with the 5U8C then with a 3DG4.
> With the 6AS7s sucking up 100ma each it doesn't leave many options for the rectifier. Most cannot handle this much current continuously with out burning out definitely not a 5U4G.
> It gives more options for tube rolling
> Next you should try the 6AH7 Ken-Rad round plate as the driver at first I didn't like it at all but before I sent it to you and I tried it again it didn't sound to bad.
> I have to look I know I have more 6AH7s around here.


 

 It's in the amp already.  My initial impression is very positive, but I want to do multiple listens to eliminate myself as much as possible as a variable.  It sounded soft at first but its coming along nicely with some more hours.  Unfortunately its very microphonic and there is a bit of constant hum that might be due to that.  At least my luck is consistent.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I will say this, it reinforces the thought people have that the great 3D imaging of the BGRP Tung Sol is because of its round plates, because the Ken Rad 6AH7 has that quality too.


----------



## rosgr63

I don't know how or why but I think the 6SN7 has some magic qualities no other tube in its class can beat.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Xcalibur255

I was finally able to find a datasheet for the 6AH7.  With a max Vplate of 180V and Ip of 7.6mA won't the OTL amp burn this tube up pretty fast Glenn?  Not that it matters since they're cheap, I'm just curious if I'm correct or not in that assumption.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Last night the tube was making some bigtime midrange magic, but today it continues to change in sound and that effect is now gone.  We're heading into thin and edgy territory now.  I'll have a real writeup on the tube eventually, probably in another day or so.  I want to see if it changes anymore, but my enthusiasm is waning now if it stays like this.


----------



## 2359glenn

That was my original impression thin then I put it aside for months and tried it the other day and it didn't sound bad so I put it in the box
  and sent it to you.
  Actually the amp runs the 6SN7 at about 125 volts on the plate it is fed with 250 but goes through the plate resistor before it gets to the plate.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I don't know how or why but I think the 6SN7 has some magic qualities no other tube in its class can beat.


 
   
  Nah direct heated is the only way to go. 26 to 10 to 45or300BorPX4. These tubes are a PITA to work with but the sound is worth it. And don't forget the 2A3
    the 26 to 10 driver is much better then a 6SN7 but not as much gain. plus the 10 can drive the 300B with 1.5 watts the 6SN7 cannot do this and properly drive
  a 300Bs miller capacitance.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've left it to run all day and it has returned to last nights sound (better), but with a sense of congestion to it.  I'm not sure whether to stop here and compare to the TS BGRP (which seems only fair, round plate to round plate), or give it more time but to be honest the more I listen to it the less I'm "feeling it" so to speak.  I'll save the rest for my full write up after I've compared to the tung sol.
   
  I'm kind of excited to move onto the other tube you sent, the numbers look promising and the ST-14 glass is just cool to look at.


----------



## 2359glenn

I wasn't really thrilled with the 6E6 ether remember the 6E6 has allot less gain then a 6SN7.
  Do you have a 7N7 adapter??  you can try a 7AF7 round plate in the 7N7 adapter and a 7N7 is the same as a Sylvania 6SN7.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  ( _Silent One quietly looks...for DHT love_





 )


----------



## rosgr63

For what is worth I have tried a few 7F7 and 7AF7 with my amps and was not impressed.
  They were all made by Sylvania.
  The early 7F7 have different construction, but after the mid fifties all had the 6SN7GTB style plates at an angle to each other.
  The 7AF7 are all of the same construction.
   
  That means the amp can happily use 6SL7 tubes, right?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> For what is worth I have tried a few 7F7 and 7AF7 with my amps and was not impressed.
> They were all made by Sylvania.
> The early 7F7 have different construction, but after the mid fifties all had the 6SN7GTB style plates at an angle to each other.
> The 7AF7 are all of the same construction.
> ...


 
   
  Yes the amp can take a 6SL7 but it will have to much gain.
  As far as I know all loctal tubes were made by Sylvania and re branded. A 7AF7 only has a gain of 16 less then a 6SN7 or 7N7 the 6SL7 has a gain of 70


----------



## rosgr63

With the 6AS7G it might not be a problem to use the 6SL7.
  With higher gain power tubes the 6SL7 won't work well.


----------



## Silent One

In-session with Ronnie Laws...
   
   
  Last night, I took the rig outta the driveway and down the street. Riding with me is the 5U8C, 5998's & Fivre Brown Base 6SN7GT. The 5U8C and the Fivre isn't really a good pairing. I had to stop a few times on this drive. 
   






 But, not because I was going to put one or both of them out on the street. It's because I thought I heard something. _And I did. _Despite this pairing suffering in this way and that, I noticed its ability to do something the other 6SN7's I evaluated overnight haven't done very well with the 5U8C, with the exception of the TS-BGRP.
   
  Although, the 6SN7's tested did better with the '596,' my focus is on the 5U8C and potential synergy with the Fivre. And despite a poor showing, there's something about it that makes it worth listening to. And if I can put a finger on the quality in question, it could help in finding the right tube for the Russian.
   
  I hope to put more words to this within the next 16 hours.


----------



## rosgr63

Have you discovered the SO's boson of music?
   
  Can't wait!
  Down to more earthly stuff, I am evaluating some Bendix 6080WB's with a FIVRE 6SL7 driver.
   
  Music: Empresarios - Sabor Tropical


----------



## Clayton SF

I really like the 5U8C. I has less bass punch than the 596 and more space in the mids and upper ranges. By comparison, the 596 is bigger sounding--wall of sound-like, all around.
   
  I've been primarily listening to acoustic guitar and chamber music. With an occasional Pete York Yorn with Scarlett Johansson.
   
  5U8C = light showers and gentle rain
  596 = steady rain with light gusts of wind
   
  EDIT: Name correction. Sorry Pete.


----------



## 2359glenn

I'm having a bad day I made a 12SN7 adapter and when i went to test it I broke two 12SN7 tubes,
  one 12SN7 mouse ears and one GE bummer.


----------



## Clayton SF

^No. I am so sorry to hear that. Take a breather! Work on the adapter later. No more killing of the Mouse Ears!


----------



## john57

Glenn,
   
  Sorry to hear that!


----------



## rosgr63

Not the mouse ears Glenn!
   
  They are one of my all time favourite tubes, the 6SN7 type pair very well with the Bendix 6080.


----------



## Clayton SF




----------



## wotts

Nice Clayton! I chuckled at that.


----------



## Silent One

The news of the Mouse Ears sudden death is a double whammy for me! My love of vacuum tubes. And during college, had a summer gig at Disneyland..._The House of Mickey Mouse_.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I really like the 5U8C. I has less bass punch than the 596 and more space in the mids and upper ranges. By comparison, the 596 is bigger sounding--wall of sound-like, all around.
> 
> I've been primarily listening to acoustic guitar and chamber music. With an occasional Pete York with Scarlett Johansson.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Clayton, you nailed it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _Olympic style!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I'm having a bad day I made a 12SN7 adapter and when i went to test it I broke two 12SN7 tubes,
> one 12SN7 mouse ears and one GE bummer.


 
   
  Hopefully you'll have a brighter tomorrow...


----------



## Xcalibur255

As promised, a write up of sorts on the 6AH7GT:
   

   
  Probably the most noticeable thing you'll see here is this tube has round plates, much like a certain beloved and expensive 6SN7GT.  I've struggled to really put into words what I was hearing while I tested this tube, much more so than I usually do, so you'll have to forgive me if this sounds jumbled.  I'm basically working off notes I scribbled on a napkin (totally serious about this!).....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  My initial impression of the tube was rather good, while it was breaking in.  It has a certain quality to the midrange that was seductive, it drew emotion out of the vocals of some tracks.  This only lasted until the tube settled in unfortunately, a brief hours long window of pleasantness.  Afterwards my impression of the tube grew more negative, I couldn't really nail down why but had to force myself to listen to it more and more.
   
  It was the direct back-to-back comparison with the round plate Tung Sol 6SN7 that really helped me put perspective on the sound of the 6AH7.  This is probably the most important thing a person can do when evaluating something like this, without the different perspective it is hard to really see the whole picture.  Even with the Tung Sol injecting noise into the left channel as this one so loves to do it was not pretty for the 6AH7.  The Tung Sol isn't just the better sounding tube, it is by a very wide margin.
   
  As mentiond by Glenn earlier, the 6AH7 suffers from a sense of thinness to the sound.  This seems to come from two places:  first is the lack of bass response.  The tube is rather light in the bass, and has no sense of impact down low.  The second source is the greater problem IMO:  the tube seems to lack a sense of weight and body to notes in general.  Not just the bass, the whole range.  It isn't as obvious until its compared to a good 6SN7.  A softer sense of dynamics also contributed to the rather tepid sound the tube had to offer.  The biggest weakness, though, was the imaging.  Much like with the 6BL7 this is what eliminates the tube from considering as a replacement for the 6SN7 all together IMO.  The stereo image just sounds...... wrong somehow.  I don't know how to put it into words.  Objectively I can say that the soundstage has decent width and great depth (much like the tung sol, hence the theory about the round plates), but it has poor height.  But there is more to it than that, things just don't sound correct somehow.  The sound is big, and yet small and nothing feels placed right.  There may be a phase issue going on, but it goes beyond my technical understanding.  Rounding out the list of negatives was a sense of congestion in the soundstage that hurt note separation and the sense of correct instrument placement.
   
  On the fairly good side of the notes, I felt the tube had an extended sense of reverb and note decay that worked well with some types of music.  It also hangs in there well when pushed loud.  It doesn't get screechy or harsh, the treble is pretty mild and stays in check.  I cranked a Chili Peppers song to near deafening volumes and was surprised at how well sorted things stayed overall.  It didn't turn into a mess like it can with some mediocre 6SN7 tubes.  The overall tone and midrange is also pleasant, thin sounding but it commits no tonal offenses such as sounding nasal or bright.  If the bass weren't so light it would sound very balanced.
   
  So is it worth considering as a 6SN7 alternative?  In my opinion no.  But they are cheap so there is no harm in trying aside from the need for the adapter of course.
   
  I have one other tube to talk about, the 6E6, but I have yet to listen to it (it's warming up for the first time right now) so I'll have one more report for you all.  I wanted to make a dramatic reveal of them since I never get to showcase new tubes, but Glenn let the cat out of the bag early.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  What this did, most of all, was remind me how much I love the sound of the round plate tung sol.  The only time I truly feel the music and connect seems to be when this tube is in the amp, despite all the problems I have had with both of them.  It's the only tube that brings immersion to my listening sessions, the other just can't do it.  If this sound can be improved upon then I'll be excited beyond words for the good things to come here at _Glenn Studios_.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I'm having a bad day I made a 12SN7 adapter and when i went to test it I broke two 12SN7 tubes,
> one 12SN7 mouse ears and one GE bummer.


 

 Looks like monday came early.  Kick back and relax for a while I say.  I've always found things to come much easier when I'm frustrated if I set it down for a while and pick it back up again later.


----------



## Silent One

Your advisory is better than any in-car GPS unit - "_Warning...accident up ahead...405 & 105 Freeways...LAX traffic please exit at._.." Now, I can better invest time in chasing other tubes. Thanks, Xcalibur255.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Wow, I don't think you could use 6AS7s with this 6E6.  Not enough gain.  I've got the volume past noon, I never have to do that.
   
  Hope it needs to burn-in, because first impression is....... underwhelming.  I have two tubes to try so it'll be a few days before I really say anything about these.
   
  At least they look neat.


----------



## Silent One

Oops upside my big box...Denon wearing...re-cabled D7000 head! Thought I was done and could focus on the Fivre synergy with the Russian tonight. Just opened the cabinet to find, I've still a few Sylvania's to try and another Fivre. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  No worries, I am curious! _Off cycling for now..._


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for the great report and update xcalibur.


----------



## Silent One

Back from a brisk and fantastic ride at sunset! Now, where were we...yes, I sailed through a few pairings with the Russian rec thinking I was done. And earlier today I found another six drive tubes.
   
  After the amp warms and I luxuriate a bit, I'll get widit! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still to come:
   
  Fivre 6SN7GT Italian Navy; TS-6SN7GT; Sylvania Short Base; 6SN7GTA; 6SN7GT; Baldwin 6SN7GTB. The Fivre Italian Navy tube is making noises when turned upside down; no idea. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Something is loose and rattling. For those of you scoring at home, I opened up the box and removed the tube from an upside down position. When righted...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but we're warming it up anyway (w/fingers crossed).
   
   
  @ Clayton SF
   
  Congrats on using the correct symbol for the Russian. I'm almost certain I've an international keyboard option somewhere.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In-session with Ronnie Laws...
> 
> 
> Last night, I took the rig outta the driveway and down the street. Riding with me is the 5U8C, 5998's & Fivre Brown Base 6SN7GT. The 5U8C and the Fivre isn't really a good pairing. I had to stop a few times on this drive.
> ...


 
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Have you discovered the SO's boson of music?
> 
> Can't wait!
> Down to more earthly stuff, I am evaluating some Bendix 6080WB's with a FIVRE 6SL7 driver.
> ...


 
   
_I figured it out! I figured out what the Russian is doing; what it's influences are_. This is my second night blasting through drive tubes like a golfer in a rainstorm...and that's when it hit me!
   
  However, there's good news and bad news. The good? My workout tonight will leave me energized for Monday. The bad?! Physically and mentally exhausted from said workout. This maybe for the best - sleeping on my audio suspicions and sharing my silent notes Monday evening.
   
_Yes, a rejuvenated SO still to come_...


----------



## rosgr63

Don't burn out SO, we need your* assessments *and reports, keep them coming!
   
  Happy Listening
   
   
*EDIT*


----------



## Xcalibur255

Very brief update on the 6E6.  I've pulled the CBS tube and am now running the Sylvania.  The first word that came to mind when I gave the CBS 6E6 a final listen last night was....... awful.  Maybe that's a bit harsh, but it sounds pretty bad.  Totally dead from the mids on up, colored midrange that sounds like a cheap horn speaker, no transparency or clarity.  It has bass, but the leading edge of bass notes are obfuscated in a hard to describe way.  The soundstage and stereo image is completely flat and 2-dimensional.
   
  If the Sylvania isn't a lot better than this then I'm not even going to bother with a full write up.  I'll just post some eye candy because its the best part of the tube.  The plate style is totally different so maybe there is some hope.


----------



## Silent One

*Silent notes made audible...and visible.*
   
  I finally figured out what the Russian 5Ц8C is doing. And why it's alluring.
(Post in progress...)
   
I've come to learn that, as the Dog Days of August are upon us, I no longer 





 have Doggie hearing! BUT, I hear well enough. And if no one needs their hand held, I'll just get to the dirt. On second thought, the members here are fantastic and deserve respect, so... Disclaimer: my evaluations are operator, system and recording dependent. Your results may vary. 
   
  To date, this Russian double rectifier tube has got to be the most fascinating I've heard in either of my vacuum tube amps. The USAF _"Mighty 596" _remains my best sounding rectifier, but the Russian is the most fascinating and seems to have even greater potential. But it's simply not being fully realized. Can't Two-step this tube around Texas. You go down there talkin' 'bout this tube got potential, and they'll tell you _"You mean it ain't done nuthin' yet!"_
   
  Back to the opening sentence, what the rectifier is doing and why it's alluring. It is inverting the sound stage. And has a strong emphasis on the mid range from the ground up (noise floor through mids).  I found this out by playing vinyl rips and even a dbx undecoded cassette track, and the noise floor can be higher with this rec on some tracks like these. Other rectifiers and even drive and power tubes can influence the sound stage - size, spacing and what notes are more prominent over others. But they tend to be more subtle about it. The Russian? Obviously bold if not blatant. And turns the entire sound stage on its head!
   
  Yes, examples would be helpful. Let's take a track - not a specific one just yet - and give it lead vocals, background vocals, lead guitar, rhythm guitar, bass, drums, congas, piano-electric piano-synthesizer. And the track is mastered so the placement of all these sounds are balanced both side to side and front to rear creating a sound stage if you would. Again, this is just for example purposes.
   
  Foreground: vocals; guitar; some keyboards
  Background: background vocals; rhythm guitar; some keyboards; bass; drums; congas; micro-dynamic low level information from synthesizers; sound effects; movement in studio ect.
   
  The Russian rectifier is moving some of the voices and instrumentation from the foreground of the sound stage and making them less prominent. And emphasizing some of the background material with more prominence. It isn't done with every single sound or note but most of them most of the time. Can't tell you how many tracks I sampled (lots!) and found this to be the case each and every time. Regardless of mastering or genre. 
   
  I will add that mastering, as well as the other tubes will determine the severity or gentleness this is done. _But it is always done. _And this is the reason why the rectifier returns an alluring presentation. One that is big, wide and open. Because inside this new found openness and expansion, we're hearing details like never before. Micro-dynamic, low lever detail and once background information has moved forward. This aspect alone is down right delicious! I'm hearing low level detail at normal listening levels. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like singers shuffling song notes on the podium. Musicians moving their feet. People whispering, dropping things on to the floor, breathing, coughing...just stuff in the room that ain't normally heard!
   
  A few moons ago, I use to learn songs by recording tracks inside an associate musician's 24-track home studio. I'd pick a fav track and make 8 different copies - one with bass only. Another with bass and drums. And perhaps, the remaining six tracks each with different combos of 4 out of 24 tracks selected to better focus on the better presentation. Once learned, every time I'd hear the song in the club or the stereo system, I'd hear that micro-detail clear as a bell! And got use to disassembling and reassembling sound stages.
   
  This Russian rectifier is a data retrieval hound like no other I've heard. Initially, this is fun and exciting. _But, there are trade offs - no free lunch. _Lower mid-range, bass and sub bass notes suffer; loss of control even at low to moderate volume. The presentation also lacks drive, impact, energy, focus, clarity and definition at times, especially when turned up some. Many songs still have bass in terms of loudness, but it rings hollow, no density. Nothing is really lost. It's all there! It's just that the rectifier has re-prioritized things with  new emphasis. The results do not sound natural or accurate. 
   
_But, did I mention this rectifier has got potential?! _




   
  This inverted presentation isn't correctable by EQ either. The vocals a good deal of the time (again, it's mastering dependent) will suffer from being reduced, squeezed and tonally wrong. Even sounds veiled at times, yet detailed. How is that possible? you ask. Think of your listening room say, the living room with properly placed speakers...and your seat has a sweet spot. In the middle of a track, you get up and walk to the adjacent kitchen (to get some ice-cream?). The presentation complete with detail can still be heard, but now that you're outside the sweet spot and ears no longer at direct mid-range & tweeter level, it sounds a bit off (understatement). But sounds fine as background music. 
   
  I keep thinking that maybe, since I do not know this powerful rectifier, that more time might do it some good...I am hopeful. There's a lot to like in this rectifier. I'm still amazed that it could drop me into a bigger room yet, return more low level detail. You'd think the bigger the sound that micro-dynamics would get lost or obscured.
   
  So, having had this experience, now what to do? I will shoot for additional hours. But in the event nothing changes, I'm willing to bet a solution could come electronically at the adapter level. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just being hopeful...at least I know what I'm now up against.


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## wotts

Looking forward to your thoughts! I'm still feeling a little rough after my tumble off the Trikke and this is just the kind of thing I need.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Looking forward to your thoughts! I'm still feeling a little rough after my tumble off the Trikke and this is just the kind of thing I need.


 
   
  It's great to see your spirits up after going down. It's fast approaching 0130 hours on the West coast and I just finished a very late dinner, dessert and kitchen duty. I'm running some 8 hours behind schedule due to urgent matters earlier in the day.
   
  Time to jump in and finish sharing my notes...
   
   
  Update: finished notes; look above.


----------



## Xcalibur255

This was exactly the sort of impression I always got when going from a low V drop tube like the GZ33 to a high V drop tube like the 5U4G, the sense that foreground and background elements had traded places to a certain extent.  Since the rectifier affects the electrical operating parameters of both of the other tubes it continues to be my suspicion that what we're hearing is the result of some sort of electrical phase shift which affects musical information in the time domain.  i.e. *when* we hear what has an effect on how we hear, right down to the microsecond.  In the end the music is being carried by electrical current so what is going on electrically in the tubes is what causes these changes.  If this amp could run a 274B without blowing it up you might find this effect to be even more pronounced than what you are hearing now, is my theory.
   
  A great write up btw, your perspective helps me to frame my own.


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## Xcalibur255

Your opening paragraph reminds me of a Josh Ritter song:  _"You know the dog days...... of the summer....."  "Have us ten to........ one outnumbered......."  _


----------



## Silent One

It would be interesting to see what an additional run of 300-500 hours brings to the rec. We're gonna find out one way or another and should know something by mid to late autumn. I'd also like to hear what Glenn hears in his own amp of a different design with this rec. _And I really wanna hear this rec with the incoming 13D1! _
   
  There appears to be a lot of audio goodness locked up inside this bottle. Extracting more of it or all of it makes for a very entertaining thought over here.


----------



## Silent One

_Submission Saturday..._
   
  It looks like my wish has been granted. Next week, I'll be receiving the voltage quadrupler and Brimar 13D1 tube to play with.


----------



## 2359glenn

I will have to see what the next crazy tube to try is tried the 6E6 that didn't work out but maybe the 6N7 similar but more gain.


----------



## Silent One

Will be watching with fascination...


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## 2359glenn

You know if I come up with somthing I will send it to you or Xcalibur255 and John I like to keep it fun


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## Silent One

Besides enjoying the music, I have found learning about this stuff to be fun as well. Looking back, when I purchased my very first vacuum tube amp in summer 2010, I had no idea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 what I got myself into (_Silent One shakes his fist in the general direction of member rosgr63_).


----------



## 2359glenn




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## Silent One

It looks clean, simple and very business like. I really want to use_ lovely_, but I'd best wait until I get my grubby little hands on the glass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Will put it through a few paces for seven days, thereabouts, and see what I have. If not my tea, I'll keep the 12SN7 adapter instead. And then buy a TS-BGRP for it, sending the Brimar and adapter back.
   
  Wait...I just remembered there's more than just the Brimar available for the adpater. So, never mind, I'll keep it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

If the 1633 tubes are the staggered plate type then the adapter is worth its weight in gold just to get cheap Ken Rads.  If they are parallel plate tubes then I believe that would make them GE made, not quite so great but we'll just have to wait and see which one it turns out to be.
   
  Is there a 13D1 variant with black glass Glenn?  Though I must say that tube in the picture is quite desirable looking too, there is something about original boxes that makes it so much more fun.
   
  l purposely arrange my tubes so the original boxed ones are visible from the front of the drawer.


----------



## Silent One

Xcalibur255, perhaps when Glenn logs back on in the morning, we can find out which plates inside his KR's have crossed his bench. I am curious. At this writing, I might be able to guess which one is which by sight. Then again, maybe not...
   
  After dinner, will go '1633' hunting to see if I can make that determination from a web shot.


----------



## wotts

Howdy!
   
  I've taken some of my free-time (rigghhhtttt...) and sifted through some of the tube hoard. I've found  a handful of the 12SN7s and a ton of the 6CG7s - these are nine-pin miniature? Found a handful of 45s too.
   
  I've a few more boxes to dig through, I can't wait to find out what else I have.


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## Silent One

I've seen your vast array of boxes filled with tubes. To see you go through a few in real-time via webcam, would be worthy of my super premium ice-cream or gelato!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It looks clean, simple and very business like. I really want to use_ lovely_, but I'd best wait until I get my grubby little hands on the glass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  From what I know only Brimar makes the 13D1. It does sound that the 1633 currently can be found in dark glass may work with the adapter.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've seen your vast array of boxes filled with tubes. To see you go through a few in real-time via webcam, would be worthy of my super premium ice-cream or gelato!


 
   
   
  It wouldn't be that much fun: me talking to myself and an ecletic array of music in the background.
   
  Also, it wouldn't be starting until now. I just got in from watching for Persied meteors. If it is still dark by you, go outside!!! I saw 17 in the last 45 min.


----------



## rosgr63

Nice, very nice Wotts.
   
  I hope you had your portable gear with you.


----------



## 2359glenn

I will send you a Ken-Rad 1633 with staggered plates with the 13D1 and adapter.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I will send you a Ken-Rad 1633 with staggered plates with the 13D1 and adapter.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm a little late - 0540 hrs - but will tip outside anyway. Was in-session overnight; just ended due to hunger and thirst. Hope I can see these meteors...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





instead of a bunch of cats. Thanks for the tip! Will share my experience with you later. Wish me luck!
   
  Update: I'm late to the party! The sky had already made its transition to blue and getting brighter. Only a matter of moments before the sun breaks through the horizon. I should have logged on a bit earlier.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





john57 said:


> From what I know only Brimar makes the 13D1. It does sound that the 1633 currently can be found in dark glass may work with the adapter.


 
  If the 1633 are black glass then that is the jackpot.  Basically getting a tube worth over a hundred bucks for $4.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Howdy!
> 
> I've taken some of my free-time (rigghhhtttt...) and sifted through some of the tube hoard. I've found  a handful of the 12SN7s and a ton of the 6CG7s - these are nine-pin miniature? Found a handful of 45s too.
> 
> I've a few more boxes to dig through, I can't wait to find out what else I have.


 
   
  Would love to hear more about your 45s if you are willing, or possibly a photo?  Are you planning to use them for a future project?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

_I guess I'm waiting for sunrise..._
   
  Last night, I made a strong effort to retire early - jumped in the sack at midnight! For 30 minutes, I tossed and turned. Tossed some more just to make sure I was really awake and it wasn't a bad dream. Yup, wide awake.
   
  So, to complete the hour I started to count sheep, but that's so 19th Century. Instead, I decided I would count 20th Century tubes in the 21st Century. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After that failed, I simply got up. And turned my thoughts to..._what if:_
   
  I bought another OTL amp from Glenn and had him mono block the pair. I wonder what kind of performance it would get me and what would he advise. A clear improvement over what I have now or better served to get a 2A3/45 offering?




   
  On that note, I'd best get back to bed for a power nap!


----------



## john57

I thought that I post a YouTube clip for educational purposes from a vendor showing their method of testing 6SN7 tubes for noise or microphonics. You can get to heard the different kinds of noise that tubes can generate when tapping with a pencil. Find out which 6SN7 type has the lowest noise in general, no big surprise.  This is a 7 min clip. I have some tubes ring when I first connect a headphone in my older tube amp.
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=205__gxWJc8&list=UUIGQDUXm67v44o6E7wXUGkQ&index=4&feature=plcp


----------



## Xcalibur255

Very cool video.  I wasn't aware you could just pull the tube out of the socket while it is powered on like that.  I'm guessing he was turning the volume down to zero on his output stereo before doing so each time.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, John, enjoyed the video. Spoke to Brent by phone a few times during 2010-11...very helpful toward my inexperience. Love the scenes in your avatars, by the way!


----------



## Silent One

Anyone notice email notifications no longer indicate sender after today's midday update on HF?


----------



## wotts

I haven't gotten any notices today...


----------



## Silent One

Until today - Silent One has sent you a PM: (Subject).
  After update - You have a new private message.
   
  No indication from whom, let alone a subject field. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I've got messages from 2359glenn; wotts; john57; Xcalibur255; Clayton SF; rosgr63; grokit; hodgjy or Silent One, I wanna know about it!


----------



## Silent One

Received my box of goodies today from Glenn - currently putting the pieces through their paces (voltage quadrupler; 13D1 Brimar; Ken Rad 1633 Smoked & Staggered). For one week, will get them acquainted with the three rectifiers - 5U8C; USAF-596; 3DG4. Then roll in power tubes for further impressions. Will return with initial "out of the box" impressions over/after the weekend. But will have more advanced thoughts prepared by Labor Day weekend (or sooner).


----------



## wotts

I just checked my PMs and didn't see one. The PM system may be having a 'moment' as my girlfriend calls it. Weeeeeeiiiirrrrdddd....
   
  On the 45s, I'll get some picture of the tubes when I get home. I'm thinking about a 45 monoblock amp pair. I'd like to try my hand at a point-to-point amp build from scratch. I've got some more studying to do on designs though.


----------



## Silent One

Fascinating! Everyone starts from somewhere. I'm eyeing the Sunrise Project II amp to get my feet in the pool.


----------



## wotts

I've build a few amps now, but all were kits. I really want to design the circuit, but I'll probably just see what I find online. More than anything, I want to know _why_ the circuit I choose works like it does. I have some electrical knowledge, but have not gone deep into circuits. I'm not that far on my EE degree.


----------



## Silent One

The plan for tonight - tube rolling. Sitting back somewhat, just getting acquainted with the Brimar 13D1; Ken Rad 1633 and reacquainted with the TS-BGRP; USAF-596 and 5U8C. I started out at 2130 hours, let's see if I can make it 'till 0930 hours for a 12 hour run!
   
  If were really motivated, I'd focus on cleaning the pins of each tube that's out of the rotation for an hour or so at a time. But, my eyes are shot! Will likely dim all the lights and clean pins over the weekend - a little bit here and there. 
   
   
  Update: well, more like 11 hours for this session..._what's an hour?! _After two very long sessions, a clearer picture has begun to emerge with these tubes. A bit more experimentation and then note taking by Monday/Tuesday night. Time for bed at 0830 hrs..._it's a wrap!_


----------



## Silent One

*A "Saturday Night Stroll" or "Midnight Misadventure?"*
   
  My overnight run in the listening room presented both like stereo. Groovin' one moment and gasping the next..._all in the same track._ I started out what should have been a continuation of tube rolling from the previous night/morning. Rather than simply repeat the previous session, I decided I'd shake things up a bit and preamp the OTL.
   
  Earlier this spring, I used the OTL as a preamp with the Pioneer SX-650. The sound improved some but not enough to call my friends up. Since that time, I brought home one of its bigger siblings - a 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000. _This vintage iron means business._ I topped off the OTL with the Russian 5U8C rectifier, Tung-Sol 5998 power tubes and the 13D1 Brimar drive tube.
   
  After getting wired, first up on the playlist was "Holidays" - Abraham Laboriel, Sr (1993). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Lush low-level detail coming forward like a confession in the box!!! Ain't never heard the OTL amp sound like this before. The bigger Pioneer sounds so much better than the little one, both stand alone and with preamp.
   
  But the presentation also left me confused and challenged. The Inputs on the OTL are reversed. To compensate, I simply reverse the cables coming out of the DAC into the amp. This way, voices and instruments maintain their places. 
   
  However, when going:
  SXD7000>OTL; OTL>SXD7000, this is where things got different. I reversed the OTL's inputs like I'd normally do but due to the loop and not a direct connect, I got things backwards. Yet, it returned a better presentation. Reversing the leads again returned the proper sound stage but a lesser performance. 
   
  I'm dealing with mixed emotions 'cause I'm enjoying the increase in resolution but not the reversed staging. Now, what would really be a mystery is when Glenn pops the top and discovers the amp's inputs are correct after all...._uh-oh!_
   
  I'd shudder at the thought of having to take a break away from this hobby to refresh. Anyway, back to the salt...still have impressions to get! Especially since this new presentation just made the recent tube rolling impressions the last few days obsolete.


----------



## Silent One

Of late, although it's been fun getting impressions, I have discovered tonight that I've been over doing it. My inner ears need relief, so I'm shutting it down for a few months days.


----------



## Silent One

*Silent notes made audible...and visible.*
   
  I thought I'd be able to take time off and give my ears a break, Monday through Thursday. This is audio! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, I'm back early to share a few notes. I spent the week rolling rectifiers and drive tubes. I have settled on the TS-5998 being my best power tube - rolled briefly to see how pairings with the Brimar and Ken Rad would work. The 5998's still emerged as the preferred glass in that spot.
   
  Basically for the week, I had fun listening to various combos so I could slot them in order of preference. But that could be fleeting the moment something changes - Cable, DAC, Playlist, Emotions and so on. Also, each tube had its strengths and weaknesses overall but could easily change for a particular night and playlist.
   
  Further, although the Ken Rad came in last with each configuration, it still does a few things very well. The TS-BGRP and Brimar simply had higher overall averages. 
   
  Two modes, two rectifiers: 
   
*OTL amp; USAF-596; TS-5998*
   
  1. TS-BGRP
  2. Brimar
  3. Ken Rad
   
*OTL amp; 5U8C; TS-5998*
   
  1. Brimar
  2. TS-BGRP
  3. Ken Rad
   
*OTL Preamp; Pioneer SX-D7000 amp; USAF-596; TS-5998*
   
  1. TS-BGRP
  2. Brimar
  3. Ken Rad
   
*OTL Preamp; Pioneer SX-D7000 amp; 5U8C; TS-5998*
   
  1. Brimar
  2. TS-BGRP
  3. Ken Rad
   
  General observations:
   
  Ken Rad: This tube had its best showing under the _Mighty 596_ where it got a chance to show off its bottom - firmly in control - clear middle and spacing and excellent low level information retrieval. Most often times, the tube retrieved this low level info with greater ease than either the Brimar or TS-BGRP. With the right recording/mastering, this tube can swing. Voices sometimes sounded a bit strained, under pressure especially with the 5U8C. But I'll quickly point out that the Russian rocket is that way with other tubes in general to different degrees. And Treble was often challenged but would improve with the '596.'
   
  Brimar: This tube is good from the bottom up; a lot going for it, especially the middle - bigger, wider, better spacing, separation, focus and definition. However, the tube sounds a bit dry (slightly) regardless of the music playing. 
   
  TS-BGRP: No idea! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Okay, I'll try to add something. This tube thrives under the USAF-596. Does alright with the Russian rocket but could do better. Whatever the pairing, the tube parts with a presentation that has a wholeness about the notes. There seems to be more weight, substance and a bit of 3-D quality. Sometimes, the stage seemed smaller with this tube but it has good depth frontward and around vocals and instruments. There's a feeling that there's more there there. Has good bottom-middle-top and wonderful tone. A lot to like about this tube for me. I got off to bad start with it after purchase,  but have come to love it dearly. Watch out for pairings though! This tube for all its wonder can sound very poor with the wrong rectifier. I think it's more sensitive than other recs I've owned - unforgiving. And will make you question your purchase.
   
  Other:  I kept the playlist very short, some 10 tracks - 5 fixed and 5 rotating tracks based on mood. Surprisingly, on a handful of tracks, the Ken Rad and Brimar had better drive the the Tung-Sol. With the KR paired with the _Mighty 596 _and the right upbeat material, that could prove to be at once dangerous and yum-O! It's staying in the rotation no matter where it placed! However, the TS-BGRP tends to have a better rendering and finish to its presentation.
   
  Which brings to mind the contrast between the Brimar and the TS-BGRP - the former sounding a bit dry, the latter having a bit more moist and liquid sound. I kind of liken the Brimar to a really good pound cake. But then, using the same recipe for the Brimar, you add a package of Jello Pudding mix to the batter. This leaves you with all the attributes of the pound cake of the Brimar but now it's a bit more moist. 
   
  In summary, I have discovered I will benefit from the use of each of these tubes in the rotation.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Some people describe Brimar tubes as warm or lush, but that never seemed right to me.  For some reason "tweedy" is the word that comes to mind when I think of it.  Perhaps the cathode resistor mod makes the difference but I couldn't call what I heard dry.  It does get a bit glassy in the upper midrange on some material.
   
  Good write up, SO, your impressions are pretty close to my own overall.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, Xcalibur255. I tried to be very careful by saying _"a bit dry,"_ as dry would be overstating things. I found the middle to be as special as people have noted about this tube. I know the "X" mod (cathode resistor mod) will make a difference but it is a mod delayed. If I would stop making other purchases...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Glenn informs that the mod will also lower my output impedance from about 40 ohms to 20 ohms. This is good to hear, considering I run 25 ohm cans.


----------



## rosgr63

Nice write up indeed.
   
  Thanks for sharing SO.
   
  I assume you are referring to the 13D1?
  My impressions of the 13D2 are that it's an average sounding tube despite the high price they fetch.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Nice write up indeed.
> 
> Thanks for sharing SO.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, the 13D1, with a much lower price tag, not to mention the Ken Rad's price and availability ($4 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). For me, the Brimar does best with the Russian 5U8C (it's not really a "U" but I'll have to search for that symbol on my international keyboard). It becomes more ordinary with the USAF-596, my favorite rectifier to date. I am finding though, since recently fronting the OTL amp with my Pioneer SX-D7000, the Russian rocket becomes better refined and presented. Looking forward to seeing how it reacts to the upcoming "X" mod...


----------



## Silent One

_Musings..._
   
  Some may read my caption regarding _"Silent notes"_ and wonder how I make my notes audible. To bring a back story to the front, a brief explanation. First, I understand that browsers on computers talk, as well as mobiles and tablets. When I'm in the mood, I have a wonderful female assistant in Opera that can read the news, mail and RSS feeds, while I peruse Head-Fi._ And you know how important catching up on Head-Fi is!_




   
  I use to talk to fellow member 'shipsupt' on the phone, as well as in person. We've met at his home, our mutual library down the street from his former residence, but our "Go to" place became meeting cafe side at SBUX in front of very busy movie theater. Where he could delight in his big hot cafe drink, as we'd sit out on the patio into the night. We talked audio, as well as other life matters and it was here (and by phone) I often shared my notes with him from inside the listening room. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Voila! Silent One avoids looking like he lost his mind.
   
  shipsupt, you may recall, had a neighboring table by Clayton SF at the annual Bay Area Head-Fi meet earlier this February, just south of San Francisco. Where Clayton SF debuted his custom built OTL amp by 2359glenn. In June, a job transfer landed him in London for three years. An outstanding head-fier and great person to be around, I'm going to miss our meetings. I'll have to remind Glenn to throw a 110|220-240v switch in for shipsupt, when he orders his OTL amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And now this caption has turned tribute. To: shipsupt - Cheers mate!


----------



## Silent One

Final thoughts, errors and corrections regarding Post #709.
   
  I just invested 4 hours in reexamining my findings with the Tung-Sol being out driven on a few tracks. Something didn't seem quite right, so I returned my focus. And rather than focus on what the Ken Rad and Brimar were doing in this regard, I turned my attention solely on the TS-BGRP and the three tracks that brought my attention to it.
   
  I found that I failed to notice what rectifier and mode this happened under. It was under the 5U8C and in preamp mode with the solid state amp. The 5U8C rectifier, when it works its wonder, it does so by moving the stage around - not left to right but bringing background information more forward and leading notes get set back some. This results in greater detail and a bigger-wider-taller stage. Softer dynamics is the price paid, however. Plus, the chemistry with the Tung-Sols and this rec is slightly less than a pairing with USAF-596. The Brimar and Ken Rad simply had better chemistry with the Russian rectifier and rendered the three tracks like lunch.._.handled it! _
   
  Adding to this mix, the vintage iron (SX-D7000) has a more laid back presentation than the OTL. Another observation I made, the Tung-Sol followed the other tubes in the run down, and the comparisons may have made it out to be more than it was. Tonight, listening to the TS by itself, the drive (energy) on the three tracks wasn't bad. It was just outdistanced by the other two. The tracks that drew my attention on this matter were:
   
  Sly & The Family Stone - Fun
  The Beatles - Back in the U.S.S.R.
  Tina Guo - Miller: Forbidden City
   
  Anyway, switching back to the USAF-596 and the OTL in stand alone mode, I can assure you there's nuthin' wrong with the Tung-Sol's ability to drive these three tracks. And enlarged my playlist and no issues. I thought it was important to point all this out for the sake of accuracy and clarity. Currently listening to an all girl group from Taiwan - Cherry Boom, and these girls are rockin' out and really movin' air inside the Denon cups! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe I should turn it down...
   
  Not before I make one last high speed pass at volume 10! (not really) 
   
  I dropped the Russian rocket back in with the Brimar and threw the rig back into preamp/amp mode. The Emotions, backed by Earth, Wind & Fire on "I Don't Wanna Lose Your Love" when turned up sounded very speaker like. The Russian not only throws a huge stage but fills in the angles and cracks with music..._man! _As I leave the thread for now, I'm playing Zydeco and it sounds like I'm right there in Southwest Louisiana! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  In-session with Geno Delafose...


----------



## 2359glenn

So what is your favorate combo ?
   
  596 - TSBGRP
  596 - 1633
  596 - 13D1
  5U8 - TSBGRP
  5U8 - 1633
  5U8 - 13D1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> So what is your favorate combo ?
> 
> 596 - TSBGRP
> 596 - 1633
> ...


 
   




   
  Back, right after these messages...
   
   
  OTL amp
  596 - TSBGRP
   
  OTL Preamp; Pioneer SX-D7000 Receiver
  5U8C - 13D1
   
   
  Additional thoughts:
   
  5U8C - 13D1:
   
  This pairing is akin to looking out of Bay windows in a home. In the same way Bay windows jut out away from the home and allow greater vision with side views, so is the 5U8C - 13D1. It is sweeping!
   
  5U8C - 1633:
   
  This pairing returns micro-obscure-low level-background details with the ease and grace of a Catfish on the muddy bottom of the Mississippi! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm familiar with many of the tracks inside my library and though I have sometimes heard the same details prior with other tubes, this pairing shows what has been missing..._"So, that's what those notes were."_
   
  USAF-596 - TSBGRP:
   
  The two previous pairings are examples of excelling in one way or another. What this pairing brings is the best balance and focus from top to bottom. And delivering dynamics without the lows-mids-highs being off. 
   
  In the past 10 days, I noticed a rotation tilted in favor of these three pairings. And mood along with playlist helps me determine which. If my session is long enough, I may finish it up with a roll or two. If not, the others will have their turn next session. I notice when I want to feel emotionally caressed, I go for the 5U8C - 13D1 setup. When I'm feeling excited and want to be dynamically moved, only the USAF-596 will satisfy. 
   
  However, I'd like to point out that I like variety and sometimes I'll intentionally go against mood. And try to involve myself with different pairings away from favorites.


----------



## Xcalibur255

No love for the 3DG4?


----------



## Silent One

A couple of weeks back in post #702, I could be seen with the 3DG4 rec in hand and ready to roll. After a few minutes, I discreetly returned it to the drawer in exchange for the_ Mighty 596._


----------



## 2359glenn

The 3DG4 will have the lowist voltage drop so it should get the most power out of the 6AS7s


----------



## Silent One

Glenn, Xcalibur255, Clayton SF and john57, what is your favorite combo?
   
   
 596 - TSBGRP
 596 - 1633
 596 - 13D1
 5U8 - TSBGRP
 5U8 - 1633
 5U8 - 13D1


----------



## john57

While the 3DG4 may not have the best sound-stage it does have one of the best clarity of sound and the soundstage is not bad at all with carefully done recordings. Many recording artists today tend to over mic the recordings. The 5692 and the round 6F8G for the drivers and the TS, Bendix and the GE (good value) for power.


----------



## 2359glenn

3DG4
  5998
  13D1
   
  In my 2A3 SRPP OTL I use the 5U8 because the B+ is 500 volts so each 2A3 can have 250 volts and the rectifier has to have
  twice the B+ breakdown voltage and the 3DG4 can't handle this high voltage but the 5U8 can handle 1700 volts.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Glenn, Xcalibur255, Clayton SF and john57, what is your favorite combo?


 
 5U8 - GE 6AS7 - CBS 6SN7 (RCA?)
 596 - GE 6AS7 - OMEGA 6SN7
 3DG4 - GE 6AS7 - OMEGA 6SN7


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> While the 3DG4 may not have the best sound-stage it does have one of the best clarity of sound and the soundstage is not bad at all with carefully done recordings. Many recording artists today tend to over mic the recordings. The 5692 and the round 6F8G for the drivers and the TS, Bendix and the GE (good value) for power.


 
   
  Interesting. Inside my listening room, the '596' has more clarity...everything over the 3DG4. But, of course, our systems are different among other things.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm really liking the Russian rocket...took me by surprise!


----------



## Silent One

Well let me ask this, anyone's preference change from the OTL being in stand alone mode versus being used as a Preamp?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> 3DG4
> 5998
> 13D1
> 
> ...


 
   
  The more you post, the more I learn...


----------



## 2359glenn

I really don't use it as a preamp I have a stand alone preamp that uses #26 tubes I feel the #26 direct heated triode sounds better then any 6SN7.
  Now All my amps are all direct heated triodes I just love the sound of these tubes. They are a PITA to work with but it is worth the hassle.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I really don't use it as a preamp I have a stand alone preamp that uses #26 tubes I feel the #26 direct heated triode sounds better then any 6SN7.
> Now All my amps are all direct heated triodes I just love the sound of these tubes. They are a PITA to work with but it is worth the hassle.


 
   
  Well, you're gonna have to help get me some DHT love, man! Can I see a pix of your Pre?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> 3DG4
> 5998
> 13D1
> 
> ...


 

 Heheh, so I did get you on the 5998 bandwagon after all.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's such a shame people don't know how good this tube can really sound compared to the 6AS7 when it isn't starved of plate current.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Glenn, Xcalibur255, Clayton SF and john57, what is your favorite combo?
> 
> 
> 596 - TSBGRP
> ...


 

 Gotta say 3DG4 - 5998 - TSBGRP.  My second choice of driver is still my Sylvania GT military plate heavy chrome top.  People who walk by this tube thinking they are GTA by mistake don't know what they are missing.  After that I would have a genuinely hard time picking a 3rd place tube.  The Brimar 13D1, Hytron GT, and Sylvania Bad Boy are all excellent and bring their own unique charm to the table.
   
  I agree with john, the 3DG4 does not throw the biggest soundstage, sometimes I wish it were bigger, but it excels in many other things and has such great transparency.  If I could take this tube and give it the soundstage of a 274B it would be perfection in my opinion.
   
  The driver is really the only tube I roll in my amp, I just don't feel the need to mess with the others ever.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> 5U8 - GE 6AS7 - CBS 6SN7 (RCA?)
> 596 - GE 6AS7 - OMEGA 6SN7
> 3DG4 - GE 6AS7 - OMEGA 6SN7


 
  If it has T-plates then the CBS should be a Hytron tube Clayton.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have to say, my 5998's are holding on! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For me, the sound stage of the 3DG4 is what it is; not particular put off by it. This tube shows great promise. But in my system, the USAF-596 has more clarity. I'm sure there's an electronic influence floating about my system...but the 3DG4 lacks the refinement of the '596' to my ears. Perhaps, the brand I have? Maybe I'll buy another and give it shot. If you all are on to something, I'm not gonna wanna miss out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Yeah, I don't bother rolling out the 5998's anymore...the best in their slot!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If it has T-plates then the CBS should be a Hytron tube Clayton.


 

 Thanks. Here's some pictures. I also use a Zalytron. Any info on the Zalytron?


----------



## 2359glenn

The 5998 has to be run with the proper bias to get the most out of it. So it's cathode resistor has to be 1/2 the value of the resistor that would be
  used for a 6AS7. Then the transformer and rectifier has to be able to handle over 250ma. That leaves only a few rectifiers that can handle the current
  The 3DG4 the old original 5AU4 or the 5U8C. No 5U4 type can handle this current not even the 596 or 5U4GB at 270ma. Add the 16 ma for the 6SN7
  and it is 266ma that would be drawing over the 270ma to recharge the filter capacitors.
   
  Silent One I will take a PIX but I have to dust it off first.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for the 5998/cathode resistor explanation. When I get modded, I'll get mindful. And take the '596' out before flipping the switch!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks. Here's some pictures. I also use a Zalytron. Any info on the Zalytron?


 

 Indeed, that is a Hytron GT.  Great sounding tube, especially in midrange resolution.  I think they are underrated.
   
  I think the second tube is a Raytheon GTB.  If the getter is attached to one of the plates and fired onto the side of the glass then it definitely is.  It's on the back side so I can't see it in this photo.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The 5998 has to be run with the proper bias to get the most out of it. So it's cathode resistor has to be 1/2 the value of the resistor that would be
> used for a 6AS7. Then the transformer and rectifier has to be able to handle over 250ma. That leaves only a few rectifiers that can handle the current
> The 3DG4 the old original 5AU4 or the 5U8C. No 5U4 type can handle this current not even the 596 or 5U4GB at 270ma. Add the 16 ma for the 6SN7
> and it is 266ma that would be drawing over the 270ma to recharge the filter capacitors.
> ...


 

 This was very informative Glenn.  For some reason I was under the impression that the 5998 still drew less current overall than a 6AS7.  I'm glad I never tried the GZ33 in the amp again after the mod, it might have arced even though it seems to be barely within specs.
   
  The 6AS7s can't touch it for clarity, the 5998 is just so much more transparent and controlled post mod.  I do wish they were a little better behaved in terms of noise but you can't win 'em all I guess.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ You are the 6SN7 god!
  The all knowing.
  The all seeing.
  The all spending! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I thank your expert eyes.


----------



## john57

Those #26 tubes surely have large plates. Do they glow much? What is PITA about them?
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I really don't use it as a preamp I have a stand alone preamp that uses #26 tubes I feel the #26 direct heated triode sounds better then any 6SN7.
> Now All my amps are all direct heated triodes I just love the sound of these tubes. They are a PITA to work with but it is worth the hassle.


----------



## 2359glenn

A direct heated triode has to have DC power to the filaments especially if used as a preamp or driver. Each tube has to have a separate power supply and winding
  from the transformer and I usually have a separate choke in each power supply. This is what makes them a PITA to work with and they tend to be micro phonic. I
  went through many 26 tubes before I found a pair that was quiet. The only ones that are quiet are GE and Westinghouse that had the modern getter I think they
  are both made by GE.
        Really you can barley see them light up they have a 1.5 volt at 1.1 amp filament this low voltage high current filament makes them less micro phonic then
  say a type 01A. That sounds better but is terribly micro phonic it's thin low current filament will easily vibrate and make them micro phonic. they were made for
  battery radios in the 1920s when most of the country had no power and the low power filament gave longer battery life. Now the driver in my 300B amp a #10 that
  has the same size plate and a thorated tungsten filament lights up like a light bulb you can just about read the paper by the light from the filament.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This was very informative Glenn.  For some reason I was under the impression that the 5998 still drew less current overall than a 6AS7.  I'm glad I never tried the GZ33 in the amp again after the mod, it might have arced even though it seems to be barely within specs.
> 
> The 6AS7s can't touch it for clarity, the 5998 is just so much more transparent and controlled post mod.  I do wish they were a little better behaved in terms of noise but you can't win 'em all I guess.


 
   
  You can use the GZ33 the amp is choke input and the GZ33 can handle 300ma with choke input


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ You are the 6SN7 god!
> The all knowing.
> The all seeing.
> The all spending!
> ...


 

 Every once in a while you'll see people auctioning a collection of multiple non-pair 6SN7 tubes.  These are the ones to go for, they almost always end cheap and sometimes there are good treasures in them.  It's a great way to experiment for cheap.  I bought 6 single tubes for $30 a while back and it was the best $30 I've ever spent.  I got my Hytron in that lot, and that tube alone is worth more than $30 by itself.  At this point I would say I've heard everything I want to hear though, with a couple of exceptions.  Some tubes I just cannot afford.


----------



## Silent One

Holy ship! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just discovered my amp is sitting in a rising tide...
   
  Yesterday, I completed bill payments for the month. And only realized a moment ago, that I have enough funds to return the amp back to the studio to meet its maker.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Awaiting the OTL amp is the "X"- mod; "Step" and new Black face-plate and control knob. Okay, maybe not the last one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got a bit excited there, Glenn!


----------



## rosgr63

Nice, very nice.
  Don't forget to post a photo when you get it back.


----------



## Silent One

Well, you know how dicey shipping heavy amps can be...across a great distance. Glenn packs very well; his gear is secure. But, whatever some of these shipping carriers do in between time, can raise both eyebrows. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Of course, if I chose to spend the extra money, I could have baby returned by courier...and pampered. I'll take the chance and save that extra dough for tubes!


----------



## Silent One

It's a wrap! No, really. Wrapped up the OTL and sent it back to the studio today for further enhancements. During the amp's time away, rather than listen to other amps, I'm going to take a break. _And each night...remain silent...while dancing romantically...with Debbie in the dark._




   
   
   
   
  For Debbie's real name:
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



"Debrox"


----------



## rosgr63

Dancing romantically without music?
   
  No way, you're hiding something.............
   
  What mods are you going for?


----------



## Silent One

Tell me, you "clicked" to learn her true identity! YES, the cathode resistor mod to run the plates hotter on the 5998's. I know Xcalibur255 is being mellow (modest) about the mod he thought up and encouraged. But, I like affectionately referring to it as the "X" mod in his honor.


----------



## rosgr63

Guilty!
   
  If I remember well you mentioned something about the face plate before?


----------



## Silent One

I did I did! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But I was just funnin' with Glenn about getting my amp Blacked out. I really am falling in love (deeper) with my vintage 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000. Would have loved to sent that back too, for enhancements. But @ 50 lbs!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That'd be an extra $200+ round-tripper which could better be spent on caps...


----------



## Xcalibur255

You are getting your volume pot swapped too right?  That's basically mandatory for running the 5998 full time anyway.  The old pot isn't very accurate.
   
  If I had to do it over again I would have skipped the switch and had the amp wired for 5998 operation only, and asked Glenn if there were any further steps that could have been taken to reduce power supply hum further to compensate for the higher gain.  I can't see any reason to ever use 6AS7G tubes these days, the 5998 is superior in almost every way to my ears.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You are getting your volume pot swapped too right?  That's basically mandatory for running the 5998 full time anyway.  The old pot isn't very accurate.
> 
> If I had to do it over again I would have skipped the switch and had the amp wired for 5998 operation only, and asked Glenn if there were any further steps that could have been taken to reduce power supply hum further to compensate for the higher gain.  I can't see any reason to ever use 6AS7G tubes these days, the 5998 is superior in almost every way to my ears.


 
   
  Yup, we're going "Step" baby! While the amp is in transit, do you think it's a good time and idea to ask Glenn to wire it full-time for the 5998's? No matter what power tubes I roll, the 5998's roll right over the swap and back into their rightful place. 
   
  You brought me along this far, don't leave me now!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I would say if, and only if, there is further improvement in doing so.  I think in my implementation the 5998 still isn't biased optimally, just more so than it was before the mod.  This I'm guessing was the maintain 6AS7G functionality.  Glenn told me it bumps the plate current 20mA.  Technically you can run the 6AS7 with the switch in 5998 mode, this makes the amp behave the way john's does but it runs hotter and most American 6AS7 tubes scream uncle.  I tried this with a pair of RCAs, they started humming 3 seconds after I flipped the switch.  A tap on the glass actually settled it back down and indeed I thought they sounded better this way, more full sounding just like the 5998 does, but the 5998 itself sounds better still.
   
  I never actually asked but I'm guessing Glenn did this for safety sake so a person couldn't accidentally nuke a 6AS7 by having the switch in the wrong position.  Since the extra cathode resistors only change the plate current by 20mA it is technically still safe for a 6AS7 tube in either mode.
   
  Glenn posted in here a few days ago that the ideal bias on the 5998 tube was 125mA which is considerably higher than what he told me my amp is running even with the mod, so maybe there is still room for further improvement.  A PM to the man himself would clear everything up I'm sure. 
   
  One note though, and an important consideration for you in particular:  if that 125mA number is actually true as opposed to 80mA which is what my amp is supposed to be running, then it likely rules out the 596 as a rectifier in the amp post mod.  You would be at 268mA current draw, uncomfortably close to the 275mA max of that tube.
   
  The guru himself will probably chime in and correct any errors in my logic here.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I don't want to pretend to be an authority when I clearly am not, I'm just re-posting numbers that have been quoted to me in the past.


----------



## Silent One

I believe you're right. And it would make perfect sense for our designer to make improvements; seek improvements, as we go forward. And the fate of my beloved United Electronics USAF-596 (_The Mighty 596_)? 
   
_Officially down-the-street (finished)!_




   
  Nothing is forever. Will simply make the 5U8C/3DG4 recs do what they do! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got four USAF-596 and will move to sell two and keep two for display and future implementation. 
   
  After further thought, Glenn might be able to use a '596' for future testing with various amps. If he no longer got it, he gonna get it...will gift him one!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Well, don't take my word as gospel on the subject until we know it is right.  I may have misunderstood something along the way.  Plus the rectifier might hold up just fine, it is still within the rating even if just barely.  Better to wait and see.


----------



## rosgr63

By not having the 6AS7G option you will not be able to try the MOV 6AS7G tubes which are worth trying.


----------



## Silent One

This is why Glenn is installing a switch, so that we won't lose the option to run tubes in standard mode. A few times a month, I'll get to hear the _Mighty 596_ still! Just not in '5998' mode. The Russian 6AS7's are safe in '5998' mode though.
   
  Now, if I could just learn more about the MOV 6AS7G you speak of...


----------



## rosgr63

Marconi Osram Valves, such as the MWT, Osram, GEC brown and black base variants with straight or curved bases.


----------



## Silent One

In audio, looks aren't everything. But I love the way Osram glass looks with the silver metal base! I'm sure now, only sticker shock awaits...gonna look anyway.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What kinda dough am I lookin' at for a pair?


----------



## Silent One

Fun! Fun!! Fun!!!
   
  My custom built OTL amp has now been modded. _And speeding its way toward the listening room. _It's going to be fun revisiting some of my most recent impressions. Wednesday, a new chapter begins!


----------



## wotts

This is very exciting to hear! I can't wait to read your impressions.


----------



## Silent One

Uh-oh! I hear your amp will be shipping in the immediate future. We're gonna have to have an OTL block party!


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Uh-oh! I hear your amp will be shipping in the immediate future. We're gonna have to have an OTL block party!


 
   
  Everyone is invited to timmeh's (my house)!


----------



## Silent One

(_Silent One gets up...walks over to the window on an early Wednesday morning...opens it to announce the status of his OTL amp_) "Hey everybody! I've been inside cooking the last few days. Will return shortly...
   
  Briefly, I finally turned 500 hours on the amp (513 @ this writing); 71 hours since the mod.


----------



## wotts

I should have my amp next week! I'll be sure to post some pictures. Can't wait to join the family.


----------



## Silent One

A well deserved cheer to both the sender and the recipient!


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63
   
  Hello I will will start making your amp with LP2 , P250 or 6SN7 input tubes next week. The output section will be the same
  6AS7 circuit and 3DG4 power supply that these guys have.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks so much Glenn, I appreciate your kind help patience, wisdom and honesty, I am left speechless. 
   
  Will i get the 5998 mod?
   
  Despite my age I fell as excited as a young kid with the best toy money can buy!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## 2359glenn

Yes the amp will have a 5998 switch on the back to switch between 6AS7 & 5998. The Russian 6AS7s can be run
  with the switch in the 5998 position. They can take the higher current and they sound pretty good run with the amp
  in 5998 mode and are cheep.


----------



## rosgr63

I recently got some Russian tubes but I would also like to try my GEC and Osram 6AS7G.
  The Russians are excellent value for money, highly recommended.


----------



## 2359glenn

The GEC and Osram I would make sure that the switch is on the 6AS7 setting not to go over current with
  expensive tubes.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Glenn, I will make sure.


----------



## wotts

The amp has landed! In fact it came Thursday, but I had some schedule changes to work around so I am giving it a first listen now.
   
  In session with Diana Krall - The Look of Love, using TS5998s, 5U8C rectifier and a Ken Rad VT-99 (Thanks Glenn!!) tube compliment. Silky smooth and very polite with the T1s. I will try out the W3000ANV later tonight.
   
  When I pulled the amp out the box, I was really surprised at the heft. This amp is no joke! Can't wait to get some rolling done.
   
  Woohoo!!


----------



## rosgr63

No photo?
   
  You are so bad..............
   
  Congratulations getting this work of art, enjoy it & happy listening!


----------



## wotts

I promise a photo when I get back to the house. I am about to head out, but I can assure you, it's a thing of beauty!


----------



## rosgr63

You are very bad that's all I can say.
   
  Can't wait!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Congratulations wotts.  Welcome to the club! 
   
  If you are finding the amp a bit too laid back the 3DG4 will fix that.  Go for a Sylvania if possible, they're a bit more musical than the GE ones.  I know this technically shouldn't be the case but that is what my ears have repeatedly told me.
   
  I'm not sure how many hours yours was burned in but it does take some time for it to become transparent.  Mine sounded smooth in a sweet and dreamy way at first, the low level detail really comes in when the caps are done burning in.  Even at really low volumes it is striking.
   
  edit:  oh, and if your 5998 tubes were actually NOS they benefit immensely from some run in time.  I had a true NOS pair in mine and they sounded pretty sad for the first 24 hours of use.


----------



## rosgr63

xcalibur & SO could you please describe briefly how the standard rectifiers sound?
   
  It will be a good reference/starting point for the rest of us.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> xcalibur & SO could you please describe briefly how the standard rectifiers sound?
> 
> It will be a good reference/starting point for the rest of us.


 
   
  I think Xcalibur255 is in a much better position to comment on this, as he has heard both the GE rec and the Sylvania he moved on to. I felt the GE was a bit pedestrian and handed over the duties to the '596' & 5U8. May give the Syl a go in October.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> The amp has landed! In fact it came Thursday, but I had some schedule changes to work around so I am giving it a first listen now.
> 
> In session with Diana Krall - The Look of Love, using TS5998s, 5U8C rectifier and a Ken Rad VT-99 (Thanks Glenn!!) tube compliment. Silky smooth and very polite with the T1s. I will try out the W3000ANV later tonight.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sir, could you please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 step aside? This line is for photos only.
   
  CONGRATS wotts!!! We are ecstatic! When the amp was in transit, I wanted to share in your joy so bad, I almost asked you for the tracking number.


----------



## Silent One

Saturday afternoon...College Football...and tube shopping. Currently giving these three 12SN7's _the look: _
  1. Sylvania NOS/NIB 12SN7GT Chrome Dome ($39)
  2. RCA 12SN7GTA ($24)
  3. Marconi 12SN7GT ($22)
   
  Any thoughts?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> xcalibur & SO could you please describe briefly how the standard rectifiers sound?
> 
> It will be a good reference/starting point for the rest of us.


 

 Trouble is, from my perspective, it is hard to be unbiased.  98% of my listening, over hundreds of hours, has been with the 3DG4 so to me it is "normal" and what I'm used to.  This is what Glenn designed the circuit for and the B+ to the tubes is at the points he intended only with this tube so in my mind the amp sounds the way it is supposed to with the 3DG4.
   
  Some words that come to mind when describing the 3DG4:  truthful, fast, clean, dynamic, nuanced, uncolored, focused, natural, musical (in terms of realistic PRaT).  The soundstage feels small but really when you adjust I think what it is in reality is an accurate presentation of the stereo image and soundstage rather than a romanticized one.  If the recording venue is big and has lots of ambiance you'll hear it and likewise if it was recorded in a small studio you'll hear that.  Some tubes make everything sound "big" which is not necessarily accurate but I can see somebody preferring this simply because that is what they like.  The 5U8C is good at this.  To me the amp is strikingly uncolored with the 3DG4, which is why I like to use the word truthful to describe it.
   
  Some words that come to mind when describing the 5U8C:  romantic, soft, diffused, gentle, bloomy, rich, musical (in terms of expressing emotion), larger than life.  To me the 5U8C makes the amp sound a little too lazy, the bass doesn't have same speed or tautness and high note instruments such as cymbals and high hats don't have their shimmer conveyed realistically.  I don't get the sense of realistic instrument timbre like I do with the 3DG4, but it doesn't sound veiled or hazy, just a step away from that "you're there" feeling which the 3DG4 will actually deliver on good recordings.  Everything sounds big with this tube, big bass, huge soundscape, big dynamics (in a relaxed way, which sounds like it makes no sense I realize.  It has good midrange resolution and seems to dig out unexpected details and place them forward in the soundstage for you to discover.  But, it never lets you forget that you are hearing a recording, sometimes the 3DG4 does.
   
  Some words that come to mind when describing the 5AU4 (which can also be used if it has the old style big plates):  very dynamic, lively, slightly cold, expansive, taut.  This tube doesn't sound all that different from the 3DG4, but it has a bigger soundstage like the 5U8C and a really impressive bottom end.  It has both drive and control, even better than the 3DG4.  The top end suffers slightly in exchange, and on some material can get a tiny bit nasal.  I enjoy the sound of this tube quite a bit, but it doesn't have the finesse or quite as much low level detail as the 3DG4 and the stereo image isn't quite as focused.  It also has a tendency to sound a bit strained sometimes, like it is pulling against it's leash so to speak.  The mids lean ever so slightly to the nasal side tonally, but it is slight.  The soundstage is huge with this tube but doesn't feel as artificial about it as the 5U8C does.  In a lot of ways it stands between the other two tubes in terms of sound.  You have to use the right kind though, the newer ones can't handle the inrush current and arc over on startup.  I've used the 5V3 in the amp before too, which sounds very similar only a bit warmer and more lit up in the mids but it arcs over every time so I quit using them.  I have a big fat glass 5AU4 Glenn gave to me with very wide flat plates that seems to handle the current just fine, so if a person could find one of these they'd be set.
   
  Those are my thoughts, jumbled as they may be.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks SO & Xcalibur.
   
  Xcalibur great info much appreciated.
  Could you please recommend some 3DG4 makes and types worth trying?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Sylvania, RCA and GE were the only makers.  I like the Sylvania ones the best, they are a little sweeter and more musical.  There are minor differences in mica and the tallness of the glass, I think the taller glass bottles work every so slightly better than the shorter ones do.  All the 3DG4s share a pretty similar sound and behavior though.  Compared to some tubes there are not many variations of these, probably because they were a later development.  These were only ever used in Zenith televisions Glenn told me, designed to replace two 5U4Gs in the same circuit.
   
  I have a pair branded Philco Starlight I'm rather fond of, which are actually rebranded Sylvania.


----------



## rosgr63

Any idea when they were first introduced?
   
  BTW I am looking for the 2399 data sheet and can't find it any where.
  Any links?
   
  wotts is palying with my sanity not posting any photos yet............
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And I thought I was bad!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Any idea when they were first introduced?
> 
> BTW I am looking for the 2399 data sheet and can't find it any where.
> Any links?
> ...


 
   
  wotts is very fortunate that Halloween is a few weeks away. Otherwise, the weekend of, I would have mailed him a fake "Call Tag" requesting the amp be returned.


----------



## rosgr63

That would be very evil........but I like it!
   
  BTW have you decide which 12SN7 you are going for?
  Lori is a first class seller.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Any idea when they were first introduced?
> 
> BTW I am looking for the 2399 data sheet and can't find it any where.
> Any links?
> ...


 
   
  I haven't been able to find a 2399 data sheet either, probably because the 5998 one is applicable. 

 The 2399 is a 5998 electrically, they should be identical.  Chatham used copper for their grid posts and probably a few other minor things to make their version a bit more premium but they are definitely a 5998.  Only the Western Electrics are actually different, they have different gain and transconductance values.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks xcalibur.
   
  You are referring to the WE421A, right?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Yes, the 421A.  I think there is some substance behind people claiming they sound a bit different.  I doubt the subtle difference would justify the big price tag though.  I'm quite content with the 5998.  The only tube I ever roll in my amp is the driver these days.


----------



## rosgr63

They sound slightly different to me but as you very wisely say they are not worth the price tag.
   
  My reference tubes are a pair of Raytheon 6AS7G black plates which I bought at a reasonable price sometime ago.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> That would be very evil........but I like it!
> 
> BTW have you decide which 12SN7 you are going for?
> Lori is a first class seller.


 
   
  Lori, a first class seller indeed. Very good with communication; getting back to people. Though, I'm tempted to ask for the story behind 'greengirl613.' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Let me guess, her commercial activity brings her lots of dollars (I've no idea!). 
   
  In the last 10 days I spent $600 on two Japanese Pilot Falcon Elabo Metal Fountain pens & Japanese ink - Murasaki Shikibu, and discovered Saturday night I'm broke. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Syl Chrome Domer looks tempting, though. I went to the market earlier this evening for groceries and managed to leave a few luxury snacks behind. I'm back with a surprise $50 - will look for another 3DG4, 12SN7 and make it work for me.
   
  Also, I'm behind in my affairs - was going to report back on my amp post mod. I may now wait a week or so if I'm able to bring in another 3DG4. To date, pre-mod/post mod, I love the USAF-596 in the rear. Name a letter, number or attribute for the GE 3DG4, and the '596' got it covered. With the difference being the '596' returns slightly greater detail. Sound stage is about the same. And the _Mighty 596_ doesn't resort to any artificial shenanigans - sounds good, sounds real. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Sylvania version could bring me a welcome choice. 
   
  I'll quickly add that the Russian rocket has fallen back to earth, post mod. It no longer returns to super sized this, that and the other. It now sounds like an ordinary tube - not bad, not special either. I liken it to a star athlete that got busted for "Doping." Once back from suspension, having the hardest time separating from the competition that it formerly dominated. The 5U8 has it's place but for serious sessions, I've another rec...
   
  While we all have different rigs, hear differently along with different preferences, I was surprised to read Xcalibur255 comment that the 5U8 was dynamic. In my system, both pre/post mod it has never been dynamic. 
   
  On a different note, I may have figured out the delay behind wotts' debut pix. It is my nature to remain, well...._silent._


----------



## rosgr63

The rectifier war has started.
   
  I like it.


----------



## dminches

I am shamed to admit that I haven't tried my 596 yet.  I need to get that thing fired up.


----------



## rosgr63

I feel left out.
   
  A few "rectifier addicts" own this wonderful tube but me.
   
  Must get my act together!


----------



## Skylab

I was always intrigued by the 596, but right at the moment I don't really have an amp that will use one. It certainly is a cool looking tube, that's for sure!


----------



## rosgr63

How much noisier will the amp get if you fed the heaters with AC, any ideas?


----------



## john57

For the type of amps mention here, Glenn uses AC for the tube heaters. DC work better for phone pre-amps when you really need low noise. AC has the advantage of more power for the power tube that are being used because you are heating the heaters more evenly and the cathode in turn will also have more uniform strong electron flow. Glenn voltage doubler adapter will only work with heaters that uses AC.


----------



## john57

I noticed on Ebay from a seller selling a set 6080WB tubes that states, Seller refurbished. I did not know if you can refurbished a tube!


----------



## Silent One

It would have to be extremely rare for me to put my mitts on it!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I was always intrigued by the 596, but right at the moment I don't really have an amp that will use one. It certainly is a cool looking tube, that's for sure!


 
   
  This tube looks so good, it'd look right at home inside your amp..._or the Paris catwalk during fashion week. _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I am shamed to admit that I haven't tried my 596 yet.  I need to get that thing fired up.


 
   
  I don't know which is more unbelievable: your admission or that Game 7 of the World Series is "1 November."


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> The rectifier war has started.
> 
> I like it.


 
   
  In between lunch and laundry at this writing. But will begin looking for another rec later this afternoon. Having heard the OTL preamp out with the vintage Pioneer SX-D7000 amp, tomorrow night I want to flip it! And use the OTL's amp with the SX-D7000's preamp section. No expectations except perhaps, fun...


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I noticed on Ebay from a seller selling a set 6080WB tubes that states, Seller refurbished. I did not know if you can refurbished a tube!


 
   
   
  John, Bruno my French tube guru, can remove a base, repair the electrodes and rebase the tube.
   
  I had this work done by Jac van de Walle on some Tesla 6CC1 and 6CC10, who also rebased a pair of AVVT PX4 Mesh from B4 to UX4 bases.
   
  But the seller must be a tube guru to do this work!
   
  Here is a photo of Bruno's repair in progress.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





john57 said:


> For the type of amps mention here, Glenn uses AC for the tube heaters. DC work better for phone pre-amps when you really need low noise. AC has the advantage of more power for the power tube that are being used because you are heating the heaters more evenly and the cathode in turn will also have more uniform strong electron flow. Glenn voltage doubler adapter will only work with heaters that uses AC.


 
   
  An amp with AC heaters would also run cooler, right?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> How much noisier will the amp get if you fed the heaters with AC, any ideas?


 
  In most amps it doesn't matter if the tube heaters run on AC or DC except phono preamps. In the amp I am building for you the LP2 and P250s are
  direct heated that type of tube the heater is the cathode so if run on AC it would inject 50/60 Hz into the cathode. I think these tubes were meant
  to be run on battery's. It has been my experience that direct heated triodes SQ is far Superior to indirect heated triodes like the 6SN7. The SQ is
  usually so much better that it is worth the PITA of making the DC supplies.


----------



## john57

Glenn,
   
  Those tubes  LP2 and P250? are not very common that I can find.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I was surprised to read Xcalibur255 comment that the 5U8 was dynamic. In my system, both pre/post mod it has never been dynamic.


 
  Perhaps I should elaborate.  It has good dynamic range, some tubes compress large swings in dynamics and undermines their effect.  It does not handle dynamic transients well, including leading edges, which is why I call it lazy sounding.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Glenn,
> 
> Those tubes  LP2 and P250? are not very common that I can fine.


 
  I have never seen these tubes before as far as I know rosgr63 and the person he got them from are
  the only people that have them. I am making the amp with two B4 sockets for the LP2 and P250
  and a octal socket so he can also use a 6SN7 or 12SN7. There will be a 6 volt / 12 volt switch
  to run the 6SN7 or 12SN7 the LP2 and P250 run on 2 volts.


----------



## Silent One

The different custom build options being reported have me twisted - to knock over my remaining tea tins or get a job!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I definitely want some more action from the studio..._no doubt, world class._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I understand. Thanks for stepping in...


----------



## wotts

*...poof!!...*
   
   
  I'm just dropping in quick to show off some pictures. Sorry to keep everyone waiting, it has been a helluva past few day. Also, I was hurrying, so these are the first four pictures as taken from the iPhone 5 (I upgraded!!). Also included is the mess creeping across my desk!


----------



## Blackmore

Oh no, are you saying that I may can use such adapter in my Cary? Looks fantastic.
   
  THX
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> _From Glenn studios_ __
> 
> _12SN7 to 6SN7 voltage doubler using large 1000uf capacitors_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> *...poof!!...*
> 
> 
> I'm just dropping in quick to show off some pictures. Sorry to keep everyone waiting, it has been a helluva past few day. Also, I was hurrying, so these are the first four pictures as taken from the iPhone 5 (I upgraded!!). Also included is the mess creeping across my desk!


 
   
  Aerial view --
   
  Ohhh, wott a shot! Looks like NYC, baby!


----------



## rosgr63

That's a very nice looking amp.
   
  I can see the 6AS7/5998 switch will you be running 5998's?
   
  I can see the *BIG *Russian, such an impressive tube.
   
  Regarding the Marconi Italiana LP2/P250, I have a friend Fabio who has a big stock of them, I don't know anything about them.
  This was a project we started with Glenn to build the first ever audio amp that uses them.
   
  I am very excited like a young lad getting ready for his first date.
   
  Fabio will be ever so pleased.


----------



## Silent One

Based on what you and Glenn are able to produce with this arrangement, me and Fabio might have to have a lil' chat! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_ I'm on the side line pulling for you...and Glenn._


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks SO.
   
  I hope I'll like them.
   
  If not it's back to the 6SN7 and 12SN7.
  Glenn was very wise and suggested the 6SN7/12SN7 option as we don't have any user feedback about these tubes.
   
  We don't know how they sound or what their life and reliability is.
   
  If it wasn't for Glenn this project would have never started.


----------



## Silent One

The option to switch is at once brilliant and prudent! Glenn does it again..._always have a Plan B. _
   
   
   
  Update: Just purchased a NOS Sylvania 3DG4 rectifier from eBay.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn is brilliant and prudent. 
   
  I never thought of this life saver option.
   
  This is a complex amp, I don't know if any designers would be willing to face the challenge to design and build this amp.
   
  BTW this is an old project which many builders refused to tackle until I asked Glenn to have a look at it.
   

   Glenn was positive from day one and is making a dream come true.
  I am very grateful.


----------



## Silent One

This project could potentially put the Studio on the map! RMAF-2013?


----------



## rosgr63

That's a very positive thought SO.
   
  With the help of our friends why not?


----------



## Silent One

Many audio designers and independent dealers started out with a grass root effort.


----------



## wotts

I am using the TS-5998s currently, but swapped the 5U8C out for the 596. I have a few 6AS7 tubes around to try later, but I figured I'd let the amp finish maturing before I did too much tube rolling.
   
  I _should_ have this weekend off so I'll take some glamour/night shots of the amp.
   
   
  Thank you Glenn!! It is an amazing amp.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This project could potentially put the Studio on the map! RMAF-2013?


 
  If Glenn shows up at next RMAF I am sure to greet him since I am a member of CAS that puts on the show. The best consumer show with speakers and headphones.
  Head-Fi will also be there.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm looking forward to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 meeting you and your society myself. I find it a bit ironic that a cat calling himself "Silent One" is the source of RMAF rumors...


----------



## rosgr63

It's a clever cat!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> It's a clever cat!


 
   
  I liken it to Steve Job's attitude about design, users don't always know what they need..._until you show 'em._


----------



## Silent One

It's getting late! 0200 hours inside the listening room. I suspect most of the regulars here are sleep at this writing. But, now that it's autumn, who doesn't like a good story tale before bedtime?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have three stories to tell: one about Sleeping Beauty, another about the 3 Bears and third by request.
   
  First, I need to take a break from the listening room for a French Foam Bath with Milk, back in 1 hour. And yes, the story tales are audio related.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  Update:  We're back, feeling so good and so luxurious...what was I suppose to talk about again?!
   
  Let's start with Sleeping Beauty. The dame slept for 100 years. What she dreamt about during that time, I've no idea! However, since getting my amp back 12 September, I'd dream nightly I'd finally hear it emerge from its slumber. Prior to this overnight session, I left things at 97 hours on the amp, nothing doing. The amp sounded okay, I suppose, but I knew it could and would eventually sound better, but when? 
   
  I sat down and started the current listening session with no expectations. It's often customary for me to start out with Abraham Laboriel Sr.'s "Holidays." Hitting "Play" was like an F/18 Fighter Pilot hitting Eject! The amp kicked the sh(edit) out of the Denon's!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The "X" mod finally became a factor, some 100 hours in and we're jammin' like our first day on vacation.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a strong hunch that the amp is emerging but hasn't finished, it's only been a few hours. 
   
  Just before I took my luxury bath, I ran through a couple of more configs to hear the new shift. My early evaluation:
   
  In each of the three setups, the OTL maintained the USAF-596; TS5998's & TSBGRPVT231.
   
  OTL amp - Wide grin
  OTL preamp; SX-D7000 amp - Mouth open
  OTL amp; SX-D7000 preamp - Jaw dropped
   
  Now that the mod and new 'Stepped' are being heard from, I hear more refinement. At times, and recording dependent, hauntingly so...
   
  Moving on, the second tale involves the 3 Bears. Yesterday afternoon, I bought fewer groceries and ordered 3 BIG Papa Bear Brass footers - 3"x3" @ 6 lbs each. I need 9 for the three components but lack "9" money. So, we're going to evaluate them one at a time under each component. But will place them under the music server first. If I'm fortunate, I'll have both the Syl 3DG4 rec and the footers on Saturday.
   
  Next hour, will roll in a couple of audio players and hop into bed by sunrise...cheers!


----------



## rosgr63

SO that's good news, great write up.
   
  I feel like an over excited 3 year old waiting for his grandma to continue the 3 Bears story!
   
  I hope the story will continue with the 3DG4.............
   
  I promise to be good.
  I know it's hard but I'll try!


----------



## Silent One

Emerging from the hot bath, I suddenly got sleepy and cut the post way down...it happens.


----------



## rosgr63

Why some people consider OTL amps better sounding than SET amps?


----------



## Skylab

rosgr63 said:


> Why some people consider OTL amps better sounding than SET amps?




Amps can, and often are, both output transformerless and single ended triode, right? Did you mean why do some people like push-pull output transformer coupled amps more than SET amps?


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Why some people consider OTL amps better sounding than SET amps?


 
   
  For the same reason some folks like rap music and some folks like country music.  Audio is a subjective hobby.


----------



## rosgr63

True, but when it comes from people who deal with amps daily, it must mean something.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Amps can, and often are, both output transformerless and single ended triode, right? Did you mean why do some people like push-pull output transformer coupled amps more than SET amps?


 
   
  Rob I meant amps where the load is connected to the tube output without a transformer.


----------



## Skylab

Sure, Stavros, I understand that, but you can have a SET amp that is also OTL


----------



## rosgr63

Sorry for the confusion Rob, I meant to say Single Ended Triode output not in push pull mode.


----------



## Skylab

Right! Now that makes sense  For headphones I love SET because you don't need much power for headphones. For speakers, it's tough to generate enough power with a SET amp.


----------



## rosgr63

I agree 100%.
  I think Atma Sphere use this design for speaker amps.


----------



## Skylab

Yup - I love the look of those Atma Sphere SET amps, and their mass of 6AS7G tubes. Would love to hear one someday.


----------



## rosgr63

Can you imagine 42 GEC 6AS7 and 12 B65 per channel for the mono blocks?


----------



## Skylab

My wallet certainly cannot imagine it


----------



## rosgr63

$9000/unit if you can get them that is!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Sure, Stavros, I understand that, but you can have a SET amp that is also OTL


 

 Pretty soon he is _going_ to have a tube amp that is SET and OTL.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  To me the timeless debate is OPT vs. OTL.  What I've come to believe, through owning Glenn's OTL, is that a well done OTL design offers superior value for the money.  You have to use the very best transformers and caps (unless you can get away with direct coupling the tube stages) to prevent those parts from smearing the low level detail in the audio signal and that gets awfully expensive (as I'm going to find out in the near future as a mater of fact).
   
  Until I owned this amp I didn't think it was possible for something costing $500 to have this kind of low level resolution, period.  But OTL takes away 99% of your design choices when it comes to which tubes you are going to use, and the major players aren't as linear or free of noise issues as some audio triodes are so some cons come into play as well.


----------



## Silent One

I understand our amp designer has a life. And that there are others standing in line ahead of me, perhaps standing room only. But, I cannot wait to get my French bubbly pouring...French custard spoonin'...hands on a second offering from 2359glenn's studio.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Even if it means Soup For One.


----------



## Silent One

Earlier this afternoon, the Sylvania 3DG4 dropped. I brought it in from the porch like a newborn kitten - let's get this thing fed! Will see what I have toward two weeks, fifty hours...


----------



## Blackmore

Great designs, OTL or SET, are forever. Companies  like Yoshino and Cary still producing some of their lines for decades, which is the best prove you can have that your product is good, imo. Of course, there are others to, but I cant speak of them, because never owned it, but from what I read up here is that Glenn put all his knowledge, love for music and possible time to make such product to, but without pushing the final user to the limit and I respect that enormously.
   
  Thanks to Stavros for introducing me to this thread. And thank you guys for keeping this thread going.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Pretty soon he is _going_ to have a tube amp that is SET and OTL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  xcalibur, this will be my 4th SET, OTL amp and the best by far.
   
  To me the key for transformer coupled amps is the quality of the transformer.
  Materials and workmanship are not the same anymore.
   
  To get a first class transformer is extremely expensive.
  Will one get that much of an improvement when it comes to headphone amps?
   
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I understand our amp designer has a life. And that there are others standing in line ahead of me, perhaps standing room only. But, I cannot wait to get my French bubbly pouring...French custard spoonin'...hands on a second offering from 2359glenn's studio.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  SO be patient, you are not the only one who wants a second amp!
   
   
  Quote: 





blackmore said:


> Great designs, OTL or SET, are forever. Companies  like Yoshino and Cary still producing some of their lines for decades, which is the best prove you can have that your product is good, imo. Of course, there are others to, but I cant speak of them, because never owned it, but from what I read up here is that Glenn put all his knowledge, love for music and possible time to make such product to, but without pushing the final user to the limit and I respect that enormously.
> 
> Thanks to Stavros for introducing me to this thread. And thank you guys for keeping this thread going.


 
   
   
  For me Glenn offers the best design, quality and value for money.
   
  Thanks to all following this thread, I have lots to learn.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   




   
  It's autumn now, a season that sees more delicate and mellow green teas; Jazz, inside my listening room. I shall relax and reflect...


----------



## rosgr63

Very nicely put, true SO style!
   
  First impressions form the 3DG4?
   
  Is there a European equivalent?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Very nicely put, true SO style!
> 
> First impressions form the 3DG4?
> 
> Is there a European equivalent?


 
   
  I'm now 11 hours in with the Syl 3DG4 and shutting it down for the morning. The tube sounds like it could use some more play-in. Maybe some 40 to 50 hours. Currently, lacking a certain smoothness, refinement and finish to notes. If the GE 3DG4 is any indication, perhaps the tube will come around shortly. Still, if it's going to compete with the USAF-596,_ it has some ground to cover._
   
  Not sure about a European equivalent. Time to breakout your Goog-fu!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm now 11 hours in with the Syl 3DG4 and shutting it down for the morning. The tube sounds like it could use some more play-in. Maybe some 40 to 50 hours. Currently, lacking a certain smoothness, refinement and finish to notes. If the GE 3DG4 is any indication, perhaps the tube will come around shortly. Still, if it's going to compete with the USAF-596,_ it has some ground to cover._
> 
> Not sure about a European equivalent. Time to breakout your Goog-fu!


 
   There is no European equivalent the only one I would try is the GZ37 it is Indirect heated and 5 volt so it won't sound the same but
  it can handle the current. 350ma into a choke input load


----------



## Silent One

So, there you have it rosgr63. No going to the local Market for food, and tossing in a European equivalent while you're out and about.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> There is no European equivalent the only one I would try is the GZ37 it is Indirect heated and 5 volt so it won't sound the same but
> it can handle the current. 350ma into a choke input load


 

 The GZ33 is also an option, it supposedly has slightly less voltage sag than the GZ37.  I didn't think it was anything special when I tried mine in the amp, sounds soft like the 5U8C.  Maybe I'll try it again to confirm that opinion.


----------



## rosgr63

I bet Glenn, xcalibur and SO will come up with a European alternative!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Really the 3DG4 was a brilliant find by Glenn.  Everybody (including me for a while) has spent so much time trying to find something different to use in the amp for some reason, maybe for the sake of seeking out familiarity, but I really think that all things considered the 3DG4 is the best tube in the amp.  When I try something else there is always an active desire to go back to the 3DG4, that really boils it down for me.
   
  I popped the Mullard GZ33 in tonight to skim some thoughts.  I don't care for how it sounds.  The soundstage collapses in and becomes very flat, no depth.  I thought the midrange had some coloration that came off as nasal, with a spotlighting effect in the upper mids that sounded unnatural and tended to mask some lower midrange detail.  It sounds a little grainy in the highs too.  Good PRaT and bass though, except the very bottom octave feels like it missed the boat.  It doesn't sound bad, closer to the 5V3 than anything except without that tube's sweet sounding tone and less bass drive.  Oh, and a flatter and narrower sounstage.  It was pretty unengaging I have to say.  This tube has a stellar reputation too, I really liked it in my Woo.  It just goes to show that general impressions about a tube only go so far, the circuit it is in matters a lot. 
   
  I'll listen to it again tomorrow before taking it out just to make sure it wasn't my ears tonight.  I have this feeling that might be part of the problem.  I felt "tuned in" last night but not tonight at all.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for the update.
  Have you ever tried the GZ33 with 6AS7G's?


----------



## Silent One

On the rectifier front, personally I didn't put any effort forth in looking to replace the GE 3DG4 rec. I just knew I wanted to, despite there being few choices available. And I just happen
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to have four USAF-596 recs lying about and...voila! The Mid-February 1957 release _keeps bringing it._
   
  Because I am writing about my own enjoyment, it matters little that I am the lone wolf preferring this glass for the OTL.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In my view, the USAF-596 continues to be a fine find. In fairness, my NOS Sylvania 3DG4 is glowing 16 hours strong, now. Will reserve judgement until I approach 50 or hear some sort of a shift. But at this writing, both 3DG4's are slotted behind the '596' for my tastes...
   
  It's almost a given, that if I make any system changes, all prefs and bets are off! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've no shame in re-evaluating. My current 1st team remains:
   
  United Electronics USAF-596
  Tung-Sol 5998
  Tung-Sol BGRP VT-231


----------



## rosgr63

I am jealous because I don't have any  USAF-596, that's all.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  One that never changes his/her mind and is intransient despite new experiences/results is not objective and honest.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am jealous because I don't have any  USAF-596, that's all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The glass is available, just numbered (rare). There's a lot more available than is on the market - Military surplus. But, they're primarily used for RF Transmitters and stuff. Earlier this year, I found a dealer who only ever had a handful in 35 to 40 years - sold all but one back then for transmitters. Never heard anyone using 'em for audio. When I inquired, he fell out of his chair in disbelief! I told him it was for a vacuum tube amplifier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Someone actually asking about a tube he long forgot about.
   
  Our fellow member Ultrainferno (Belgium) has a strong Euro connection for the USAF-596. If you'd be interested in hearing one, it can happen! While this tube isn't for everyone, I think it's worthy of being in one's inventory for current/future selection.


----------



## Silent One

@ 2359glenn
   
  So far, so good! I've been running the USAF-596 in "5998 mode" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 without incident.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks SO.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Thanks for the update.
> Have you ever tried the GZ33 with 6AS7G's?


 

 Hmm.  I  don't remember clearly.  I think I tried all the rectifiers in the beginning when I was running Chatham 6AS7s.  All I can recall is thinking it sounded soft compared to the 5AU4 and 3DG4.  I was trying to run the 5V3 at that time too.
   
  The Mullard GZ33 might have been my favorite rectifier when I had my Woo, even over the EML 274B.  It just doesn't work out in this amp IMO.  I would take the 5U8C first actually, no question. 
   
  They sure look pretty though, I love that slender glass.  I'm hoping it sounds very good in my next amp so I can use it.


----------



## wotts

As promised, pictures! and dust!
   
   
http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/697715/glenn-otl/
   
   
  Teaser!


----------



## Silent One

Night cats like myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 are right at home with shots like that! Congrats on entering the club!


----------



## Silent One

I have a basket full of audio goodness coming tomorrow - forgot USPS was closed today; kept looking out the door and windows for the truck!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wotts said:


> As promised, pictures! and dust!
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/697715/glenn-otl/
> ...


 
  Love that photo wotts.  Whatever shutter settings you used it looks amazing.


----------



## wotts

Thanks SO!
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Love that photo wotts.  Whatever shutter settings you used it looks amazing.


 
   
  Thank you! I used my 18-55mm lens and it was a 10s exposure at f5.6. Some of the really cool ones I forced a flash at the start and then did the exposure to light the amp and still get the tube glow.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice photos Wotts, I like your album.
   
  The glowing tubes look nice.
   
  How does your Sylvania 6F8G sound?


----------



## Xcalibur255

It occurred to me it's been a long time since I've heard a 5U4G, so today I've dared to put my Tung Sol 5Z3 w/adapter in the OTL to reference how they sound with the other rectifiers.  So far so good, the tube didn't arc when I started it up so it seems like it will be up to the task for this short test.  This tube is NOS so I'm going to let it run a bit before listening.
   
  I pulled my 5V3 out as well and tried it this morning too.  It didn't arc over either, I'm thinking my old listening tests were with the 6AS7s which draw another 20mA a piece, that must put it over the line for these 5U4 family tubes.  I think the 5AU4 is the better choice over this tube.  Honestly the GZ33 and the 5V3 sound very similar, with the latter being more lit up in the upper mids, slightly more edgy, and a bit thinner sounding.  Both sound flat, with a 2-D soundstage presentation, with the GZ33 being the worse offender.  With the 5V3 it is more like notes are lying on top of each other than a lack of Y-axis soundscape. 
   
  For fellow owners I do recommend tracking down a fat plate 5AU4, they're a very worth alternative to the 3DG4 and the 5U8C and sound different from either of them.  I'll weigh in on the 5Z3 (5U4G) later on.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm going to try out the 5AW4 too.  If the 5U4G doesn't blow up neither will this.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've given each tube a few hours now and I think I've heard what I needed to from each.  I'm not very impressed with the 5U4G in this scenario.  It has a nice round fullness to notes that is a good thing IMO, but it sounds slow and sloppy.  Everything seems slightly out of focus, the bass is especially bad.  Soundstage is nice and round but doesn't get wide enough and notes get crowded IMO.  I found it to be pretty sibilant in the upper registers and sometimes glassy sounding in the upper mids.  It bears a resemblance to the 3DG4 sound in quite a few ways though, just an out of focus version, which makes sense considering that the 3DG4 was designed to replace 2 5U4G tubes in a circuit.  There is much more voltage sag on a 5U4G though which is where the lazy sound is coming from. 
   
  The 5AW4 was a surprise, and a fairly pleasant one.  This doesn't sound too bad.  Again I think there is a bit of a thinness, a lack of fullness to the notes, that I'm finding in a lot of these tubes outside of the "big 3" (3DG4, 5AU4, 5U8C) but it isn't too bad here.  Soundstage is nice and wide but a little flat in front/back depth like some of the others were.  Tonally I thought it was good, balanced and pretty well behaved.  Good bass speed/impact and treble was pretty controlled.  It sounds a lot like a 5R4GY actually now that I think about it, who knows maybe it's a straight bottle version of one.  I was afraid the amp would blow the tube up, the filaments seem like they're a little thinner than those on a 5U4G but the tube seems to handle it and doesn't really sound strained.  I believe mine is made by RCA (branded Philco), I'd like to get my hands on an older vintage Sylvania one.
  
  Back to the 3DG4 for a reality check now.


----------



## Silent One

Xcalibur255, with all your testing and feedback, did our amps just become Military Grade?


----------



## rosgr63

Yes, code CGR-OTL1W.
   
  BTW any chance for a photo or list of the adapters necessary for each tube please?
  It'll be a good reference source.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It occurred to me it's been a long time since I've heard a 5U4G, so today I've dared to put my Tung Sol 5Z3 w/adapter in the OTL to reference how they sound with the other rectifiers.  So far so good, the tube didn't arc when I started it up so it seems like it will be up to the task for this short test.  This tube is NOS so I'm going to let it run a bit before listening.
> 
> I pulled my 5V3 out as well and tried it this morning too.  It didn't arc over either, I'm thinking my old listening tests were with the 6AS7s which draw another 20mA a piece, that must put it over the line for these 5U4 family tubes.  I think the 5AU4 is the better choice over this tube.  Honestly the GZ33 and the 5V3 sound very similar, with the latter being more lit up in the upper mids, slightly more edgy, and a bit thinner sounding.  Both sound flat, with a 2-D soundstage presentation, with the GZ33 being the worse offender.  With the 5V3 it is more like notes are lying on top of each other than a lack of Y-axis soundscape.
> 
> For fellow owners I do recommend tracking down a fat plate 5AU4, they're a very worth alternative to the 3DG4 and the 5U8C and sound different from either of them.  I'll weigh in on the 5Z3 (5U4G) later on.


 
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm going to try out the 5AW4 too.  If the 5U4G doesn't blow up neither will this.


 
   
  Glenn has made different versions of his amp. Are your rectifier recommendations good for the stock version as well?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Yes, code CGR-OTL1W.
> 
> BTW any chance for a photo or list of the adapters necessary for each tube please?
> It'll be a good reference source.


 

 No adapters.  I used one on my 5Z3 because it is a 4-pin version of the 5U4G.  They are the same tube aside from this difference.  These all drop right into the socket.  For the record I don't recommend running the 5U4G, 5V3 or the 5AW4 in the amp long term, they're all pretty maxed out in current draw and will likely fail prematurely in such a state.  This was a one day thing I did to gather impressions.  I have other incentive to gather impressions because all of these tubes would be usable in my future amp you see.
   
  I still consider the 3DG4 the best choice.  I'm not sure how else to put it, but the amp just sounds "right" with this tube.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Glenn has made different versions of his amp. Are your rectifier recommendations good for the stock version as well?


 

 I don't think any of them are safe to use with 6AS7 tubes, in either of the bias settings I know Glenn has used with the amp.  It seems passable with the 5998 because they draw a little less current but long term our only 4 options really are GZ33/37, 3DG4, 5U8C or old style big plate 5AU4.


----------



## Silent One

Perhaps, not your personal choice, but the USAF-596 is an option as well.


----------



## Silent One

I'm 6 hours out from returning home and getting into the listening room. Just temporarily installed my new feet under the 'OTL' to see how they fit. These just came in for my music server. But will get some for the amp in January/February. No idea how it sounds..._later tonight._




   
  Footers spec'd @ 3"x 3"...6 lbs ea.; Maple platform 18 lbs ea.; 36 lbs under given component.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Perhaps, not your personal choice, but the USAF-596 is an option as well.


 

 I keep forgetting about it because I haven't used one.  Apologies.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Man, we're good. I've been trying to kick one out there for your evaluation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Was it Danny DeVito who asked _"What's the worst that could happen?!"_


----------



## Silent One

Inside his listening room...
   
  I raced home 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





early. So, I could get started 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




early. Only to stumble 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




early...at installation. My mid-year 2010 Mac mini music server has an irregular; odd shaped bottom. Majority of the real estate is that of a rubber cover._ T-e-r-r-i-b-l-e resonance. _
   
  I was aware of this challenge going in. But I needed for the new footers to arrive in order to make a better visual assessment. My spikes only need to utilize the corners, which are aluminum. So, for now, I sit! Well, there's Head-Fi but...
   
  At some point, I'm going to need to be able to fabricate something. Maybe a bottom plate out of Maple with a large depression in the middle, for the rubber cover to sit down in. Kind of like the last Mac platform I had. And then place the footers underneath the new bottom chassis. The only challenge, and it's huge, is tuning whatever solution I come up with. If the ideas are slow to come, I'll slide 'em underneath the DAC or amp.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks xcalibur &SO for the info.
   
  So the list is:
   
   
                            5998                     6AS7G               Adapter            Recommended
   
   
  3DG4                  Yes                         Yes                       No                      Yes
   
  GZ33/37              Yes                          No                       No                Owner's Risk
   
  5U8C                   Yes                         No                      Yes               Owner's Risk
   
  5AU4(Long Plate)   Yes                         No                      No                Owner's Risk
   
  596                      Yes                         No                      Yes               Owner's Risk


----------



## Silent One

Nice effort! Though, I could be misunderstanding the table (or the Do's & Don'ts). Because I have run both the USAF-596 & 5U8 with the Russian 6AS7's...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as well as 5998's.
   
  The 5998 is preferred but every now and again, I really miss and appreciate just how quiet the Russian 6AS7's are. Sometimes, I'll throw 'em for that silence and blackness.


----------



## rosgr63

SO it's probably wrong, I thought it was not safe to use the 596 & 5U8C with the 6AS7G.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> SO it's probably wrong, I thought it was not safe to use the 596 & 5U8C with the 6AS7G.


 
   
  No, you're right. I was merely confessing to doin' what I wanna, you know..."Owner's risk." And after awhile, couldn't remember right from wrong. Ah, now it's coming back to me (Glenn's advisory). 
   
  That's a clean looking table, too. Like me, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




are you a Rhodia notepad man? I'm guessing it would speak to the engineer in you. I'm a life-long user of their graph notepads in various sizes.


----------



## rosgr63

I am actually using Notes and CircusPonies Notebook for cataloging my tubes.
   
  I just drafted this table and will present in in a nice format once I know the info is correct.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Thanks xcalibur &SO for the info.
> 
> So the list is:
> 
> ...


 
   There is no risk in any of these tubes. The 596 being the lowest current of the bunch might have a shorter life but it should be OK.
  When I say shorter life maybe 5 years instead of 10. These tubes are not like new production that burn out easy.
  And no harm will come to the amp whichever one of these tubes you use. And there is the one everyone hates but has the same
  specs as the 596  270ma that would be the 5U4GB really not a bad tube.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Glenn,
   
  So the list would be:
   
   
                                  5998                     6AS7G               Adapter           
   
  3DG4                         Yes                         Yes                     No                    
   
  GZ33/37                     Yes                          No                      No              
   
  5U8C                          Yes                         No                     Yes             
   
  5AU4(Long Plate)         Yes                          No                      No
   
  5U4GB                        Yes                         No                      No
   
  596                             Yes                         No                      Yes


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've noticed the 5V3 has identical plates to a 5U4GB, clearly related.  The 5V3 has higher heater current otherwise they seem similar.


----------



## john57

The 5V3 and the real 5V3A (reduced heater current) was a disaster for me. The specs stated that it had plenty of current capacity. The tube will arc and sound like a shotgun went off.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Yeah.  Your amp is biased for around 20mA more current per output tube is my understanding so I can definitely see that happening.  It seems to barely be okay with my amp.  The tube will arc during startup with a 6AS7 but I didn't see anything with 5998s in. 
   
  All of this was really just to refresh old listening impressions of these tubes, nothing too serious.


----------



## Silent One

Changing preferences with the custom built, OTL backed system. In what could be called an engaged listening session - sunset to sunrise - I decided to tip across the street.._.under a cover of darkness_. That, I did not successfully negotiate crossing in a straight line, resulted in the lone alley cat tracking my every move. Better it, than the LAPD. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway, Thursday night, I installed the trio of brass footers under my Mac mini music server. Further tuning lies ahead, like damping discs. But enough happened, in order for me to change from my previously preferred Amarra music player and over to Audirvana Plus w/Direct mode; Integer mode, as my current number one audio player._ In the middle of the night._
   
  The great thing about having cafes located on opposing corners is choice. When I decide Amarra is once again serving tea I'd like to enjoy, I'll simply tip back across the street. Until then...
   
  With this change in presentation, this also means going back and re-evaluating all tubes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




And finding out where the NOS 3DG4 rec fits in as well. I need to move beyond the current 16 hours, though. Seems, there's always something to do in this hobby, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 from tweaks to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 upgrades!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63s amp with P250 direct heated triodes as drivers RCA 6AS7s and RCA 3DG4.
   

   
  rosgr63 amp with 6SN7 as driver RCA 6AS7s and RCA 3DG4
  just remove the P250s or LP2s and put in a 6SN7 or 12SN7
  has 6 volt or 12 volt switch.


----------



## john57

Glenn you new amp for rosgr63 reminds me a bit of the expensive Cavalli Audio Liquid Glass Amplifier protype that I head at the RMAF show in Denver with the tube rolling options.


----------



## 2359glenn

How did the Cavalli sound and can it take direct heated triodes.
  I am thinking of making a amp that uses the USA  type 01A tube as a driver.
  Highly micro phonic but sound good when you get a good pair and they are cheep
  so no problem buying a bunch of them.


----------



## john57

Glenn,
   
The Cavalli is a Hybrid amp a very pricey one. It sounds wonderful with the HE-6 headphones. However I heard that the next morning someone decided to “classify” the amp and blew out a channel.  What I was trying to say that this test unit was designed with two set of sockets that can use either octals that have 6SN7 basing or novals that have 12AU7 basing. Only one set can be used at a time and the sockets are arranged in a way that you cannot put four tubes in it at once. It has 6/12v switch and a high voltage switch of 200v or 330v which is half at the tubes.  Part of this is somewhat like you did with the rosgr63 amp.
Your idea of trying the 01A tube is good and the tubes are easy to get.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The new amp looks great Glenn, I know rosgr63 will be ecstatic.  Wasn't it originally going to be a two-chassis unit though?
   
  I've read the 01A is a good tube if you can find one that isn't microphonic.  Along those lines maybe the 71A would make a good driver too assuming the lower gain pairs well with the output tubes being used?  They're pretty cheap too.


----------



## john57

The 71A tube, are you serious!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  To add a bit of color what about the ARCTURUS BLUE???


----------



## rosgr63

I am lost for words. Thanks Glenn, you made a dream come true.
   
  These Marconi Italiana look like Prima Donnas.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am lost for words. Thanks Glenn, you made a dream come true.
> 
> These Marconi Italiana look like Prima Donnas.


 
  You are one of the few people that even have a supply of those tubes! Good luck and the long wait and the journey will soon to be complete and the adventure will continue!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The new amp looks great Glenn, I know rosgr63 will be ecstatic.  Wasn't it originally going to be a two-chassis unit though?
> 
> I've read the 01A is a good tube if you can find one that isn't microphonic.  Along those lines maybe the 71A would make a good driver too assuming the lower gain pairs well with the output tubes being used?  They're pretty cheap too.


 
   
  The two chassis unit was discussed but Glenn was able to fit all in a single box using a custom made transformer.
   
  The two chassis concept will be implemented in the next project.
   
  I feel like a 5 year old waiting for Santa Claus.........


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am lost for words. Thanks Glenn, you made a dream come true.
> 
> These Marconi Italiana look like Prima Donnas.


 
   
  To you & Glenn!




   
  Of course, now, SO is gonna want some action...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> rosgr63s amp with P250 direct heated triodes as drivers RCA 6AS7s and RCA 3DG4.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well done Glenn, well done!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





john57 said:


> You are one of the few people that even have a supply of those tubes! Good luck and the long wait and the journey will soon to be complete and the adventure will continue!


 
   
   
  It was worth it.
  Parts had to be specially made for this amp as it's a 230V unit.
  Glenn had to place special orders overseas as they could not be obtained in the US/EU.
   
  It's been a pleasure talking to Glenn and friends about this project, learning along the way
  My Italian friend Fabio has a nice stock, the only stock of some 80-100 of these tubes so I could pick another pair or two.
   
  If I don't like them my humble 6SN7 and 12SN7 will serve me well.
   
  Glenn was very clever and added this 6SN7/12SN7 option, it never crossed my mind.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> To you & Glenn!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Thanks SO, ready to help.


----------



## john57

You can also use 7N7 and the 14N7 with adpaters if you like. Many choices!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Your build 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 provides us with a rare glimpse inside the studio...wonder if Glenn does Panoramas.


----------



## rosgr63

Indeed.
   
  Also 2C51, 12AV7, 7AF7.
   
  I know you like the 7N7 family.
  I have never tried the 14N7.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your build
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Now you are bad, very bad SO!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wait..._and that ain't all! _I wonder if Glenn will start with your custom, limited edition build and stamp the amp; Brass plaque the amp. I think this would be a nice tradition if he were to start. We'd throw in a few more $$$, of course! 
   
  I'm workin', john57...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Glenn,
> 
> The Cavalli is a Hybrid amp a very pricey one. It sounds wonderful with the HE-6 headphones. However I heard that the next morning someone decided to “classify” the amp and blew out a channel.  What I was trying to say that this test unit was designed with two set of sockets that can use either octals that have 6SN7 basing or novals that have 12AU7 basing. Only one set can be used at a time and the sockets are arranged in a way that you cannot put four tubes in it at once. It has 6/12v switch and a high voltage switch of 200v or 330v which is half at the tubes.  Part of this is somewhat like you did with the rosgr63 amp.
> Your idea of trying the 01A tube is good and the tubes are easy to get.


 
  I have built a amp for someone in New York that is fully adjustable B+ with a pot in a adjustable regulator 150 to 350 volt


----------



## 2359glenn

When I start working on the #45 amp if it doesn't have enough gain maybe I will have
  to use a 01A or 71A to the #10 to #45 output. I rather not have a three stage amp but
  if knead be I will have to do it. The 01A has a gain of 8 and the 71A has a gain of 3
  or have to use a EML 20A or 30A but these tubes are expensive


----------



## rosgr63

That's a good alternative, the EML 20A Mesh is a beautiful tube.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I have built a amp for someone in New York that is fully adjustable B+ with a pot in a adjustable regulator 150 to 350 volt


 
  Glenn, 
   
  I Like this idea very much especially if you use a SS [size=medium]rectifier[/size]. I would call it a sharpness control providing you observe the tube limits.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





john57 said:


> The 71A tube, are you serious!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Did I suggest something silly perhaps? 
   
  I know it is normally an output tube but it seems to work well as a driver according to DIY circles.  Was thinking that or a 46 could drive big DHTs like 300B better than a 6SN7 could.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> When I start working on the #45 amp if it doesn't have enough gain maybe I will have
> to use a 01A or 71A to the #10 to #45 output. I rather not have a three stage amp but
> if knead be I will have to do it. The 01A has a gain of 8 and the 71A has a gain of 3
> or have to use a EML 20A or 30A but these tubes are expensive


 

 I'm a little relieved to hear this actually.  I've been doing some independent study on things that could be done for the 3rd stage so I could have more informed conversations with you if the need came up.  The 71A or the 46 are the two tubes that I had in mind to use as the additional stage, so seeing you mention the 71A as well lets me know that my understanding of the things I've been reading has to be at least partially right.
   
  I gave some thought to the EML tubes as well, but they're so expensive and if Emission Labs ever shuts down or stops producing the tube then we're up a creek.  That, and it would probably make the whole project more expensive again too.  What drew me to the 71A is that it seems to be a pretty cheap tube still, nobody really using them now.  I found lots of pairs in the $20-30 range.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Did I suggest something silly perhaps?
> 
> I know it is normally an output tube but it seems to work well as a driver according to DIY circles.  Was thinking that or a 46 could drive big DHTs like 300B better than a 6SN7 could.


 
  Actually the driver does more for the SQ then the output tube. The 6SN7 can barley drive a 300B but a10 or a 46 at 1.5 watts can easily drive just about any output tube


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> rosgr63s amp with P250 direct heated triodes as drivers RCA 6AS7s and RCA 3DG4.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What kind transformer are they? I am talking to Mr. Koji at Japan for a pair of Tango. They mark up 23% because the currency exchange!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Actually the driver does more for the SQ then the output tube. The 6SN7 can barley drive a 300B but a10 or a 46 at 1.5 watts can easily drive just about any output tube


 
   
  The #10/#46 driving 300B sounds like a good idea.
   
  300B's can start from a low price and end up sky high, but the choice is great.


----------



## Silent One

Tea for thought~
   
  Tube rolling with.._.a tea kettle?_ Absolutely! My front-end is currently under evaluation, as I seek to improve the eventual signal the OTL amp feeds on. And the tea kettle has been masterful. I have been trying to find the _sweet spot_ for damping weight atop my Mac mini music server. The kettle weighs 3.5 lbs; the plate it rests on weighs 1.5 lbs.
   
  I have determined that _spot_ to be between 2 lbs & 3 lbs appx, with various tube combos. At 1.5 lbs, there's magic in the middle with improvements for Bass just arriving, but not quite there. At 3.5 lbs, the Bass is tighter, quicker but the magic in the middle has begun to depart. So, somewhere in the middle has to be my _spot._
   
  However, this testing occurred with the footers directly underneath the music server. Now up after hours, experimenting to find out if using a Maple platform or sub-plinth under the server would enhance or detract from the magic in the middle. With rectifiers and drive tubes on deck, this could take awhile. Stability is the main reason to consider using something for balance. 
   
  Since a rising tide lifts all boats, I'm sure male vocalists benefit from this tweak too. But I adore female vocals and these brass footers on Maple brought a sweetened tone, texture and finish to their voices that's just lovely.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Of course, mids are emphasized and depending on one's gear, maybe too much or not enough. But, with my D7000, an improvement. When I compared the midrange from the Denon's to the clear-as-a-bell middle of the HE-6, the difference was astounding! It took nearly a week to readjust back to the Denon's. 
   

   
  Oh, but anyway, back to testing..._and the iron tea kettle is for testing purposes only, not a permanent addition. _


----------



## rosgr63

If you make me a nice cup of tea, I can come and be a variable test weight!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> If you make me a nice cup of tea, I can come and be a variable test weight!


 
   




   
  The overnight session was fun..._just went final!_


----------



## rosgr63

Like tubes, tea is another addiction for me.
   
  What do you prefer HE-6 or D7000?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Like tubes, tea is another addiction for me.
> 
> What do you prefer HE-6 or D7000?


 
   
  Well, I actually prefer my D7000 for all-around cans - does most genres I listen to, better. And I prefer the Bass/Sub Bass notes better on the Denon's. However, I really enjoyed the mid-range on the HE-6 most of the time over the D7000 mid-range. But feel more at home with the other attributes on the Denon. 
   
  The HiFiMan's were adequately powered, should anyone wonder. I put them in front of my vintage 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000 and made them work! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Quality & quantity...but need to add that, with both auditions, I listened to the Pioneer with all controls flat. May actually enjoy the Bass on the HE-6 next time if I touch up the Bass control on the amp. 
   
   
  I tend to drink Jasmine Dragon Pearls (delicate green tea) most of the time. But, I do mix it up, drinking some South African Red tea (Rooibos) or Chinese White teas. Yesterday, it was white tea - Jasmine Silver Needles. What can I find most often inside your tea bowl/cup?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> What kind transformer are they? I am talking to Mr. Koji at Japan for a pair of Tango. They mark up 23% because the currency exchange!


 
  Those what you see are power supply chokes the power transformer is a R-Core mounted flat under the chassis.
  The amp is a OTL no output transformers.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Those what you see are power supply chokes the power transformer is a R-Core mounted flat under the chassis.
> The amp is a OTL no output transformers.


 
  Oh, it is a OTL, my bad.
   
  The pair Tango cost $431.09 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   

  [size=x-small]FE-25-5[/size]
  [size=x-small]25
 (50Hz)[/size]
  [size=x-small]5K[/size]
  [size=x-small]4,8,16 [/size]
  [size=x-small]10Hz-80KHz[/size]
  [size=x-small]160mA[/size]
   [size=x-small]45, 6V6
 6CW5 [/size]

 [size=x-small]83[/size][size=x-small]x78x81[/size]
 [size=x-small]1.6[/size][size=x-small]Kg[/size]
   
   

   
   
  And lundahl LL1630-PP‏:
   
Griffin,
   
I don't stock these, but can get them on a special order basis.  They are $150 each, plus shipping.  The transformer covers are $24 each.
   
What power transformer you need is dependent on your circuit.
   
Cheers,
   
Kevin


----------



## john57

It is my understanding that good output transformers are costly. unfortunately


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





john57 said:


> It is my understanding that good output transformers are costly. unfortunately


 
  The most critical part IMHO.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> The most critical part IMHO.


 
  Sure no skippy on the transformers


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Oh, it is a OTL, my bad.
> 
> The pair Tango cost $431.09
> 
> ...


 
     Griffin
   
  I would go with the Lundahl transformers studio equipment uses Lundahl.
  The next amp I build is going to be transformer output and use Lundahl Transformers.
  And $150 each is not that bad for high quality Transformers.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Griffin
> 
> I would go with the Lundahl transformers studio equipment uses Lundahl.
> The next amp I build is going to be transformer output and use Lundahl Transformers.
> And $150 each is not that bad for high quality Transformers.


 
  Shoot, I already sent money for Tango fe25-5


----------



## Seamaster

Because I did not hear from Lundahl for a few days when I email them for qoute. I hope Tango FE25-5 are the right choice. I did not go for Hashimoto and Tamura because their tonal signatures are on the clean airy and lean side the house. Not my tast.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Because I did not hear from Lundahl for a few days when I email them for qoute. I hope Tango FE25-5 are the right choice. I did not go for Hashimoto and Tamura because their tonal signatures are on the clean airy and lean side the house. Not my tast.


 
   
  What are you building?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Because I did not hear from Lundahl for a few days when I email them for qoute. I hope Tango FE25-5 are the right choice. I did not go for Hashimoto and Tamura because their tonal signatures are on the clean airy and lean side the house. Not my tast.


 

 Both Tango and Lundahl have good reputations.  I think it will work out okay for you. 
   
  To echo SO, I'm curious too..... are you doing your own DIY project?  If so then you're far more courageous (not to mention skilled) than I am.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What are you building?


 
  A Stax SRD-7 Pro beater 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Both Tango and Lundahl have good reputations.  I think it will work out okay for you.
> 
> To echo SO, I'm curious too..... are you doing your own DIY project?  If so then you're far more courageous (not to mention skilled) than I am.


 
  Mr. Glenn is going to build this for me as prototype, I shall ask him offer this to public 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So far I got:
   
   
  The soul Tango FE25-5
   

   
   
   
  Custom case will be refinished by PanelExpress for cut-outs
   

   
   
   
   
*LEGENBURG* Rectangular HOOK-UP Wire *RED*, 20 awg (UP-OCC Copper Mono-Crystal design) and some Neotech *12 awg*  Solid-core UP-OCC COPPER Wire, Teflon 

   
   
   
   
   
  NKK S823 20+ amp@125v rating. Silver plated brass for all contacts and terminals

   
   
   
   
   
  SCHURTER - CD64.1101.151 Swiss made swich 10 Amp
   
   

   
  CMC 878M-SE, with set screws, I tried to avoid solder connection when I could for signal path. I looked at Furutech, WBT, Vampire, and many others. They either toooo expensive, not glod plated copper or, no set screws.


----------



## Seamaster

Custom Teflon Chassis Jack for Stax Headphones from HeadAmp

   
   
  Posts Gold Plated Point to Point Connection Board

   
   
   
  Maybe these


  Have these between footer and case:
  Round _*grungebuster*_ washers in a variety of sizes for audio and electronic applications, for decoupling and vibration control. Same silicone-based formula as our highly regarded _grungebuster _Dots and Damping Sheets. Withstands continuous temperature up to 400° F (204° C)


----------



## john57

Man, are you thick! 12 gauge solid core wire? That is thicker than my house wiring!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Man, are you thick! 12 gauge solid core wire? That is thicker than my house wiring!


 
  The 12 awg is only for short speaker signal pass through section (in and out). Most good copper speaker wires are between 12 to 8 awg. I don't want this "amp" to be the bottle neck in my speaker signal path. I took apart my little table top Dear MP-5 tube amp which got 14awg wire to speaker posts. So I think 12awg to be minimum.


----------



## Silent One

Looks like someone went holiday shopping...nice effort, Seamaster! I need to throw down a project (DIY) in 2013...


----------



## john57

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> The 12 awg is only for short speaker signal pass through section (in and out). Most good copper speaker wires are between 12 to 8 awg. I don't want this "amp" to be the bottle neck in my speaker signal path. I took apart my little table top Dear MP-5 tube amp which got 14awg wire to speaker posts. So I think 12awg to be minimum.


 
  I remember my college days were everyone laugh at me using 14 gauge wire for the speakers where everyone else were using 20 or 22 gauge for speakers wires.


----------



## rosgr63

Is this an amp for electrostatic headphones?


----------



## Blackmore

For the money, Tango's are great, also Takamura's are fantastic, but more expensive, I believe. If you talk about really expensive, just take a look at Audio Note Silver line, where some of them goes for GBP 5000 each http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/audionote/Audio-Note-line-output-transformers.htm


----------



## Blackmore

Sorry guys, I was talking about Tamura's, not Takamura's


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Is this an amp for electrostatic headphones?


 
  It is an Energizer.
  Quote: 





blackmore said:


> For the money, Tango's are great, also Takamura's are fantastic, but more expensive, I believe. If you talk about really expensive, just take a look at Audio Note Silver line, where some of them goes for GBP 5000 each http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/audionote/Audio-Note-line-output-transformers.htm


 
  I should win lottery before talking about audio note stuff. Too bad I am a common working man.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> It is an Energizer.
> I should win lottery before talking about audio note stuff. Too bad I am a common working man.


 
   
  That makes two of us!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I scored a nice little gem on eBay today.  I think I might have found a Tung Sol 3DG4 that was actually made by Tung Sol.  The reason it caught my eye is because it had three getters (double side and a top getter) which I have only seen once on the 3DG4 tubes and that was on john's CHIEF tube (of which I'm still jealous).  I assumed it would be a re-branded GE like every other Tung Sol tube that wasn't a popular type.  When I got it I discovered it doesn't have the GE markings, but when I found the stop sign logo on top I thought "okay it's an RCA then" but that seems to be wrong too.  There are some factory code markings that RCA doesn't use below the logo, and the micas have different cutouts on them along with a taller glass bottle.
   
  So I just popped it in a bit ago, and the thing sounds great.  I've tried the Sylvania, GE and RCA 3DG4 tubes and I think they all sound different.  Fairly subtle, but still different.  This Tung Sol branded tube doesn't sound like any of them, the midrange is especially unique sounding from the others with a a vivid, round and three-dimensional presentation.  Whoever made it I like what I'm hearing.
   
  I might do a little write-up on the 3DG4s too.  I found them to sound different enough that it would be worth one's while to pick one to match their preferences rather than just run whatever.  They cost almost nothing so it's a pretty innocent tube rolling adventure.


----------



## Silent One

This is great to hear, Xcalibur255! I'd enjoy and appreciate an in depth look at the various 3DG4 recs. This midrange description is something I want to hear, does the seller have stock or am I hunting? Thanks.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Couldn't say, I just picked it up from a buy it now auction on a whim.  Had eBay bucks to get rid of before they expired.  The seller wasn't listing any other 3DG4 tubes at the time.
   
  The sound of the tube changed a lot with a long day of break-in.  Still really good, just a different kind of good than before.  More listening is in order.
   
  I bought a Sylvania that looked like it had an unusually tall glass envelope too.  Should make a good control specimen, we'll see if it sounds like my other Sylvania and the Philco Starlight (made by Sylvania).
   
  I noticed something unusual about the Tung-Sol last night.  The heaters/filaments of both plates are connected together on the bottom by a solid metal strap of some kind.  The entire thing glows orange like the U shaped metal pieces that tie the filaments together on the top of the tube.  I don't know if the other 3DG4 tubes don't have that or if I simply failed to notice it before.  I kind of like having the top getter on the tube, all my other tubes have it so the rectifier always looked bald without one.


----------



## rosgr63

Do you mean it has a Light Bridge on top like the GE 6SN7GTB?


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> It is an Energizer.
> I should win lottery before talking about audio note stuff. Too bad I am a common working man.


 
  Your an Uncommon Working Man My Friend


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Do you mean it has a Light Bridge on top like the GE 6SN7GTB?


 
  No, it's not an exposed filament wire.  It's a metal bracket that ties the heaters for each plate to each other for reasons unknown.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Couldn't say, I just picked it up from a buy it now auction on a whim.  Had eBay bucks to get rid of before they expired.  The seller wasn't listing any other 3DG4 tubes at the time.
> 
> The sound of the tube changed a lot with a long day of break-in.  Still really good, just a different kind of good than before.  More listening is in order.
> 
> ...


 

 I just found one just like this but it is brandid GE I know it is not a GE It is the same as the original
  one used by Zenith in there TVs I was checking it to be sent with Rosgr63s amp.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn thanks very much but you are spoiling me.
   
  I thought it was bad enough with my 6SN7 tube addiction, now I am getting into a 3DG4/rectifier one.
   
  I' just received my first pair of Sylvania 3DG4's one has a higher glass dome than the other.
   
  The amp will be shipping soon so I am getting prepared and very excited.


----------



## rosgr63

My Amp was shipped.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> My Amp was shipped.


----------



## Silent One

Due to essential matters, the listening room has been dark for the last estimated 10 days. In-session this morning for an hour or two. This weekend, will settle back in and get more impressions from my NOS Sylvania 3DG4 rec.


----------



## minimus

Glenn suggested I ask this question in this thread: has anyone used low impedance IEM's with Glenn's amp?  I know the general rule of thumb is that OTL amps shouldn't be used with low impedance headphones, but I had success using my JH16s some years ago with a now-defunct Singlepower Extreme.  Has anyone tried an IEM with Glenn's amp?  Was there a lot of tube hiss or noise?  Was the sound rolled off?  Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





minimus said:


> Glenn suggested I ask this question in this thread: has anyone used low impedance IEM's with Glenn's amp?  I know the general rule of thumb is that OTL amps shouldn't be used with low impedance headphones, but I had success using my JH16s some years ago with a now-defunct Singlepower Extreme.  Has anyone tried an IEM with Glenn's amp?  Was there a lot of tube hiss or noise?  Was the sound rolled off?  Thanks.


 
   
  No. But, I can try this out with my Shure E3C's and report back. This might take awhile, as I may not get seated inside the listening room until right 'round Midnight.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





minimus said:


> Glenn suggested I ask this question in this thread: has anyone used low impedance IEM's with Glenn's amp?  I know the general rule of thumb is that OTL amps shouldn't be used with low impedance headphones, but I had success using my JH16s some years ago with a now-defunct Singlepower Extreme.  Has anyone tried an IEM with Glenn's amp?  Was there a lot of tube hiss or noise?  Was the sound rolled off?  Thanks.


 
   
   
  Can you remember what tubes you used?


----------



## minimus

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No. But, I can try this out with my Shure E3C's and report back. This might take awhile, as I may not get seated inside the listening room until right 'round Midnight.


 
   
  Thanks a lot.  Your help is much appreciated.
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Can you remember what tubes you used?


 
   
  The Singlepower Extreme used a 6SN7 input tube and two 6AS7/6080/5998 output tubes.  Does the selection of tubes affect noise from an OTL amp?


----------



## rosgr63

I have two SP Extremes as we speak, the SQ is affected both by the driver and output tubes (70/30 to 60/40 ratio).
  I never tried any IEMs with them yet, but I am happy with both Low and High impedance headphones.
   
  One of the differences is that SP uses SS rectification but Glenn's amps use a tube rectifier.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





minimus said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
_First, I'd like to wish you a speedy return to normalcy in The Big Apple._
   
  It's just minutes before 0400 hours on the West coast - I fell a bit behind with events - just finished my brief trial with the IEM's. Current tubes in play: Sylvania 3DG4 rec; TS-5998 power; TS-BGRP VT231 drive. The Tung-Sol 5998's are not normally quiet, so there's a bit of a hum. I do not hear it once I edge the volume slightly higher from Zero. Main cans are the Zeus re-cabled D7000 xlr balanced @ 25 ohms, with a sensitivity of 108 db/mW.
   
  When I swap out the TS-5998's for the Russian 6AS7's, things are quiet. My Shure E3c's @ 26 ohm have a sensitivity of 115 db/mW - I have both hum/hiss with both power tube sets. Can be masked at low volume but it is there. Hope this helps but could very well be IEM dependent.  
   
  In short, not a lot of tube hum and hiss but noticeable. Only listened for 30 seconds but the presentation did not sound rolled-off or not enough to derail the presentation. Would need a closer inspection.


----------



## Silent One

OTL Output Impedance --
   
  Glenn, I was wondering if you got around to measuring the Output impedance from wotts' amp?





   
  Thanks.


----------



## minimus

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _First, I'd like to wish you a speedy return to normalcy in The Big Apple._
> 
> When I swap out the TS-5998's for the Russian 6AS7's, things are quiet. My Shure E3c's @ 26 ohm have a sensitivity of 115 db/mW - I have both hum/hiss with both power tube sets. Can be masked at low volume but it is there. Hope this helps but could very well be IEM dependent.
> 
> In short, not a lot of tube hum and hiss but noticeable. Only listened for 30 seconds but the presentation did not sound rolled-off or not enough to derail the presentation. Would need a closer inspection.


 
   
  Silent One, thanks for the good wishes and the experiment you did with your Shure IEM's.  The amp is very appealing.  I will place an order for it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





minimus said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You're welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, minimus. Looking forward to having you in the family.


----------



## Seamaster

I had Russian 6as7g hums when new. they usually quite. GEC are very quite, even there is noise when shaken by hand. Only time my GEC made noise is right before one died 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But that one made one channel sound dimmer for long time before it popped.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> OTL Output Impedance --
> 
> Glenn, I was wondering if you got around to measuring the Output impedance from wotts' amp?
> 
> ...


 

 It is around 25 ohms changes with tubes used as outputs


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> I had Russian 6as7g hums when new. they usually quite. GEC are very quite, even there is noise when shaken by hand. Only time my GEC made noise is right before one died
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The Russian 6AS7G tubes I have are so quiet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm suspicious!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I really appreciate it.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The Russian 6AS7G tubes I have are so quiet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Watch coming event: Woo Wee beater by Glenn Studio...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You know I'm interested!


----------



## Silent One

Although, it may have been quiet in this thread for a week, inside the listening room it has been anything but! Last Friday, I picked up a vintage TT - 1977 Sony - for my vintage stereo receiver. Been jamming ALL week... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _lovely._
   
  Shortly, will reconfigure the rack to pair the TT to the OTL. Which now has me thinking, I may ask our designer to build me either an all DHT Preamp with phono stage, or DHT Phono stage by itself. 
   
  Will play around the room some more during November to see where I'm at with these thoughts.


----------



## wotts

Mmm...tube phono-pre...tell me more!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Mmm...tube phono-pre...tell me more!


 
   
  You mean, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 when I'm still long enough to focus? Right now, my mind is all over the street - I want this, I want that...is the holidays here yet?! Never mind how any of these projects are going to be funded. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But here's what I know at this writing - the OTL is going to need help if I'm to give it the wheel. The Sony TT into the Pioneer makes for a memorable drive. But I lack a separate phono preamp (not true). Well, the BBE I have is adequate but not to my standards and is holding the OTL's sonic performance back. Plugging the OTL into the Pioneer's Phono input sounds better but falls short of the SX-D7000/PS-X5 combo. 
   
  Without a separate stage, the OTL sounds better suited to the Digital car for now. The vintage iron sounds great in either car, digital or analogue. Wait...there's more! The whole _"Take my money"_ feeling keeps lurking over my shoulder. When Xcalibur255 powers up his new '45 amp' I'm going to wish I'd have skipped the Pre and saved for the amp.


----------



## rosgr63

The amp just arrived!
   
  A huge box, that took less than two weeks to get here.
   
  Thanks a lot Glenn for making my dream come true!


----------



## Silent One

I am very excited for you!




   
  Just had breakfast - going to bed 'till noon. Hope to see photographs on the other side...


----------



## Skylab

Congrats, Stavros!

Looking forward to pics and listening impressions!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks a lot Rob.
   
Up and running:
   
*Source: *Mac Book Pro
   
*USB Cable:* WireWorld UltraViolet USB
   
*DAC:* MHDT Labs Stockholm  (V-Caps CuTF Upgrade by GP77)/Tesla 6CC42 Square Getter
   
   
 *RCA Interconnects: *SignalCable Silver Resolution
  
 *AMP*
 GR OTL 6SN7/12SN7/LP2/3DG4/6AS7G/5998
   
Driver:Fivre 6SN7GT Brown Base, Grey Plates
Rectifier:Sylvania 3DG4
Output:Raytheon 6AS7G
   
*Headphones: *Grado SR325is


----------



## dminches

Stavros, enjoy!


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks David!
  Worth every cent, GR is First Class.
   
  Here are a couple of photos of Glenn's packing and amp under testing.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Congratulations Stavros.  I'm excited for you.
   
  Looking forward to your listening impressions.


----------



## Seamaster

Congratulations!
   
  Glenn is very creative with packaging


----------



## john57

Those packing tubes that Glenn uses cost $1 a piece. Congratulations Stavros


----------



## Silent One

No need for our guy to go crazy on cables. Still, I'd like to see him upgrade from the Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable to the Starlight at minimum.


----------



## Seamaster

As I progress to higher and better gears, the resolving power increase too. To me cables make big difference. The most difficult thing is to find right synergy.


----------



## Silent One

I've a question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 for the fine readership here. By the way, I am privileged to be able to have exchanges with all of you. Bright, experienced and welcoming, I like that in my fellow members. If you're one of the many unregistered guests stopping by with an interest in this thread, by all means register and contribute. _And leave with an amp...though_,_ you'd have to_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _pay for it._
   
  Anyway, what are some of you using in the way of audiophile friendly lighting inside the listening room?


----------



## john57

I am using a floor lamp Torchiere type unit to bounce the light from the celling. My new monitor has a glossy screen so can not have lights directly behind me when facing the monitor.


----------



## Silent One

Is this type of lighting/filament good for the AC, unlike fluorescent? If it helps to clarify, I'm searching for the least polluting light options to contaminate the AC. Considering, most of my sessions begin at midnight, this is critical.


----------



## john57

Some will use CFL Bulbs but you can use a Halogen flood bulb like in my unit. You can look at your local Walmart which has the cheapest prices for floor bounce lamps or sales in your local neigbhood. Do not ever use a SCR dimmer for the lamp in any circumstances on the same circuit branch that your audio equipmemnt.is on. I learn that the hard costly way.


----------



## Silent One

Currently using a 13w Halogen Floor Lamp. Sounds like I'm doing okay then, yeah?


----------



## john57

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Currently using a 13w Halogen Floor Lamp. Sounds like I'm doing okay then, yeah?


 
  If it is bright enough but I use a 90w Halogen. 13w sounds more like a CFL bulb to me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's an OTT-LITE floor lamp and uses a 13w halogen; mimics natural daylight...plenty bright. When I'm trying to get my groove on, after hours, don't need it TOO bright!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Congratulations Stavros.  I'm excited for you.
> 
> Looking forward to your listening impressions.


 
   
  Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> Glenn is very creative with packaging


 
   
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> Those packing tubes that Glenn uses cost $1 a piece. Congratulations Stavros


 
   
   
   
  Thanks a lot my friends.
   
  The package survived a long trip, novel and secure for sure.


----------



## Blackmore

Congrats Stavros, glad all is well, enjoy my friend!


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks my friend.


----------



## rosgr63

Tried a couple of Brimar 6SL7 one with the long 22mm plates and one with the black round plates.
  The bass not as deep as with the 6SN7 but still very good, the mids are excellent.
  I like them.


----------



## dminches

Stavros, I am using a pair of them in my phono pre and really like them.  I am not sure what variety i have.  I will have to look tonight.


----------



## rosgr63

Hi David, I bet the ECC35 will sound super.
   
  I see you too have ordered a couple of 596's, I hope they sound good or else SO is in serious trouble................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I like tube ornaments anyway!


----------



## wotts

I really dig the 596 in my OTL. Makes me want to go home and listen right now. *sigh* work...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Hi David, I bet the ECC35 will sound super.
> 
> I see you too have ordered a couple of 596's, I hope they sound good or else SO is in serious trouble................
> 
> ...


 
   




   
  Just woke up 30 minutes ago - you already made my day!


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks SO,
  Thanks to you I got in touch with Ultra and he organised the next 596 group buy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Thanks SO,
> Thanks to you I got in touch with Ultra and he organised the next 596 group buy.


 
   
  For me, the true cost of owning a USAF-596 rectifier tube can never be known...or so I hope. The future might very well find me in the office...on _the couch_. Where she's directing me in a very calm and soothing voice to speak freely about _The Mighty 596. _
   
  Therapist:_ What does this tube do and what does it do for you? _
          SO:  _This could take a while. At $200/hour, could you donate hours 2 and 3, so I could elaborate a bit?_


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Hi David, I bet the ECC35 will sound super.
> 
> I see you too have ordered a couple of 596's, I hope they sound good or else SO is in serious trouble................
> 
> I like tube ornaments anyway!




No pressure on the Silent one..


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> For me, the true cost of owning a USAF-596 rectifier tube can never be known...or so I hope. The future might very well find me in the office...on _the couch_. Where she's directing me in a very calm and soothing voice to speak freely about _The Mighty 596._
> 
> Therapist: _What does this tube do and what does it do for you? _
> SO:  _This could take a while. At $200/hour, could you donate hours 2 and 3, so I could elaborate a bit?_




Could you donate hours 2 and 3 so I can buy a few backup 596's?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Now we're thinking!


----------



## longbowbbs

You know... an extra half dozen just in case....


----------



## rosgr63

And I thought I was the bad one........................


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> And I thought I was the bad one........................:evil:


----------



## Silent One

Fascination --
   
  Great to see our studio exercise discretion. Curiously, how many of you (including you too, Glenn) would like to see Glenn float a Project Calendar? Showing whose build and description is in progress, and who's on deck with description of project - amp; preamp; mono blocks; phono stage ect. Can be strictly shared through PM if preferred. And if any member simply wanted to keep it a surprise to all of us, Glenn can keep the work private.




   
  Just a few of my thoughts being made audible..._and visible._


----------



## Seamaster

Project Calendar will put Glenn in robotic mode. I don't think he is in to make this into a business like other amp builders yet. I sure he would like some flexibility in his life, and enjoy other things. Don't shoot me, just saying...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I am working on make a logo/Signature for his work.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Project Calendar will put Glenn in robotic mode. I don't think he is in to make this into a business like other amp builders yet. I sure he would like some flexibility in his life, and enjoy other things. Don't shoot me, just saying...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I agree, this man's calendar in life is already full. But here is my thinking and it's not exactly extra work. I used the word _calendar_ to express my view. But all I'm really after is a chance to learn what he's working on and what's on deck.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I might get inspired by a project if only I learned of it. Sometimes, I find myself saving for something else, only to make the purchase and then discover a fantastic build emerging from our maker. Perhaps, this clears things up - he could do this by simply posting or PM.


----------



## 2359glenn

Right now I am rebuilding a speaker amp for Xcalibur255 then I have a 45 amp to build for Xcalibur255. A Energizer to build for Seamaster. then I have three OTL amps to build.
  Then maybe design a phono pre using D3m tubes to replace my SS one I  built 30 years ago but keep the SS moving coil part.
  You have to realize I have stage 4 cancer and take some powerful poison to keep it subdued so sometimes after work
  I am to rundown to do much work and things take longer then I planed.  Hope to have the speaker amp finished this weekend.


----------



## Silent One

Yes, certainly no pressure. Thanks for illuminating things. Hopefully, it is understood I simply want to know what's possible, while I dream, shop and save. _Like "Ooh, I want one of those..." _


----------



## longbowbbs

Glenn, your efforts are appreciated. Make sure you do what you need to for your health. That comes first.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn don't forget your holiday plans.
   
  And my second amp when you finish all the above.
   
  Seamaster that's really nice, waiting to see your design.
  Are you going to use *GR *in the logo?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn don't forget your holiday plans.
> 
> And my second amp when you finish all the above.
> 
> ...


 
  I had my friend made a 3D version first, but could also made into 2D format. It will be " Glenn (design) Studio ". I am away, wait till I got back.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Project Calendar will put Glenn in robotic mode. I don't think he is in to make this into a business like other amp builders yet. I sure he would like some flexibility in his life, and enjoy other things. Don't shoot me, just saying...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is interesting...


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> And I thought I was the bad one........................


 
   
  Your are! Glad you are enjoying the new toy.


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Miguel, thanks my friend.
   
  Here is the Rectifier table in a more presentable form.
   
   
  

 *GR OTL Amp*​  *Power  Tubes*​  *5998*​  *6AS7G*​  *Adapter*​    
   
   
   
   
  *Rectifier Tubes*
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  *3DG4*
   
 *YES*​  *YES*​  *NO*​   *GZ33/37*
   
 *YES*​  *NO*​  *NO*​   *5V3/5AU4*
   
 *YES*​  *NO*​  *NO*​   *5U8-C*
   
 *YES*​  *NO*​  *YES*​   *596*
   
 *YES*​  *NO*​  *YES*​


----------



## Silent One

Looks good to me...nice edit!


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks SO.
   
  I am going to draft a driver and power tubes list next.


----------



## longbowbbs

That is a very helpful chart. Thanks for creating it!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Hi Miguel, thanks my friend.
> 
> Here is the Rectifier table in a more presentable form.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm going to feel guilty after you put the work in, but I would like to offer some corrections:
   
  - The GZ33/37 is a yes for both power tubes.  They are more than up to the task and have almost the same current output ability as the 3DG4.
  - The 5U8C is also more than up to the task for both power tubes, it has the highest current capability of any single rectifier I know of.  It is not even breaking a sweat in this amp, and that is really saying something.
  - The 5AU4 is also quite safe to use with 6AS7G tubes provided you are using the older version of the tube with the wider and longer plates.  It appears only GE manufactured them, and they are easy to spot because their glass envelope and base are really big.  They dwarf most straight bottle rectifier tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Hi Miguel, thanks my friend.
> 
> Here is the Rectifier table in a more presentable form.
> 
> ...


 

 Eek! I've been using the 596 with an GE 6AS7GA and an RCA 6AS7G for about a year. I hope I'm not ruining the amp. It sounds excellent though.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Eek! I've been using the 596 with an GE 6AS7GA and an RCA 6AS7G for about a year. I hope I'm not ruining the amp. It sounds excellent though.


 

 No, you're just fine.  Glenn said so himself.  All you are doing is shortening the life of the 596 tube itself by an inconsequential amount.


----------



## Silent One

USAF-596, probably a service life of 5 years instead of 10 years he reported with the 596/6AS7G combo...


----------



## Clayton SF

Okay, thanks, SO and Xc255. I took my headphones off for one minute, saw the chart and panicked. I am now calm--and back to my headphones.


----------



## Silent One

You're most welcome..._happy listening._ I can't wait to return to the listening room @ midnight!


----------



## Clayton SF

I am listening to Melody Gardot.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am listening to Melody Gardot.


 
  she is one of my favorite, but sometime make my wondering how many sunglasses she has..


----------



## rosgr63

No problems, here's the updated table.


----------



## rosgr63

Please let me have your opinions on these three lists:
   
*DRIVER*
   
  6SL7/6SN7 ECC32/ECC33/ECC34/ECC35
   
  I am not including other 6SN7 equivalents like B65/Q65 etc.
   
*6AS7G*
   
  6080 6520 7236
   
   
*5998*
   
  WE421 2399


----------



## 2359glenn

I really didn't like the way the 7236 sounded. Bought a pair and used them for 10 minutes and sold them on E-Bay
   
  I like the 5998 but never tried the WE421 or 2399 they should be run on the 5998 setting for best sound though.
   
  Question  Rosgr63  have you ever tried a BL63 in place of a 6SN7 with adapter.


----------



## Silent One

_A Wild, Wild Night, Way Out West..._
   
  My overnight listening session just went Final @ 0700 hrs. Got three computers fired up, all engaged. Usually, I may operate one - sometimes, I simply shut everything down, the less the better. But this morning, all of them are whirling and in different directions.
   
  I need to briefly shut two of them down and hop back on the third to explain all the activity and why my desk is completely covered with boxes of tubes. Back in 20...
   
  ...@ 2300 hrs last night, I was going through a ceremonial approach to my upcoming listening session 'round midnight. Then received a courtesy text, asking if I was both inside and if so, was I awake? This is because the home was completely dark...or nearly so. It isn't out of the ordinary for me to be sitting in the dark and in silence. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  So, I went to the door and someone close to me had delivered three boxes of tubes he just inherited. He was gifted maybe a dozen antique radios from the '20's - '50's. Only plans on keeping 3 or 4. But didn't want to bother with the surplus tubes he knows nuthin' about. I'm free to do whatever with the 100 or so tubes. Likely less than that, but I'm sleepy and if I say there's 100, there's 100! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  A bunch of miscellaneous tubes of all sizes - no hidden treasures though. But many have good visual appearance, some new and I'm certain maybe 20-25 have value, like the 12AX7, 12AT7, 12AU7, Black Glass 6V6GT (1948), Mullard EF86's and so on. There's even a pair '45s' but they're marked as tested poorly. And a few weird looking rectifiers from 1926 and stuff. I plan on giving away perhaps 50-60 and try to sell the remaining handful.
   
  BUT, when I had the money to buy a tube tester in the last 24 months, I kept putting it off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I need that bad boy! All-in-all, it should make for a fun little project this winter. It'll probably take that long to get a decent tester.
   
  Before this surprise visit, I was set to evaluate the new revision of Amarra on the Mac mini music server. The show went on as planned, but I also had on the latex gloves trying to process the inventory of glass out of the boxes, research them online with computer #2 and shop for tube testers on computer #3. 
   
  I was so busy overnight, this had to go down as one of the fastest sessions ever..._simply a blur. _Now it's time for bed and I'm w-i-d-e awake.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I really didn't like the way the 7236 sounded. Bought a pair and used them for 10 minutes and sold them on E-Bay
> 
> I like the 5998 but never tried the WE421 or 2399 they should be run on the 5998 setting for best sound though.
> 
> Question  Rosgr63  have you ever tried a BL63 in place of a 6SN7 with adapter.


 
   
   
  Iam not particularly fond of the 7236, but with some driver combinations it's fine.
   
  I don't have an amp that can cope with the 1.3A the BL63 needs, so I've never tried it.
  Kiertijai who has, likes it a lot.
   
  I like the WE421, it's a nice sounding tube close to 5998.
   
  The Bendix 6080 "Red Bank" and the humble RCA 6AS7G are one of my favourites.


----------



## Seamaster

I got tired play " paper, scissor, tube". So i got myself a B&K 747B. Tube tester is a must for serious tube players, saver you time and money in the long run.
   
  6080 are dark ans thick sounding comapre to 6AS7, should work well with cans like HD800.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Iam not particularly fond of the 7236, but with some driver combinations it's fine.
> 
> I don't have an amp that can cope with the 1.3A the BL63 needs, so I've never tried it.
> Kiertijai who has, likes it a lot.
> ...


 
  I will have to send you a  6F8G adapter with a longer grid lead to try the BL63


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, Seamaster. Also, for our fellow members just waking up, spend the morning with 'Silent One' and get free tea & tips! The first tip - Astrud Gilberto paired with the Brimar 13D1 glass. It rained overnight and left me feeling romantic. Her vocals were at once rich yet relaxed and dare to say..._dreamy._


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I will have to send you a  6F8G adapter with a longer grid lead to try the BL63


 
   
*Glenn please don't!*
   
  You don't want me to get another tube addiction do you?
   
  Seamaster well done, now you've seen the light.
  Spending on a tester is the best tube money one ever spends.
   
  The B&K 747 is a great tester, the short and leakages tests one of the best at 100Mohm.
  However they test a 6SN7 at 19mA instead of 9mA so your results will be lower.
  That means a good 6SN7 on the B&K is better than what you read.
   
  Make sure it's been rebuilt/checked/calibrated.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, Seamaster. Also, for our fellow members just waking up, spend the morning with 'Silent One' and get free tea & tips! The first tip - Astrud Gilberto paired with the Brimar 13D1 glass. It rained overnight and left me feeling romantic. Her vocals were at once rich yet relaxed and dare to say..._dreamy._


 
  I am just help you to end the debate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> *Glenn please don't!*
> 
> You don't want me to get another tube addiction do you?
> 
> ...


 
  6F8Gs are addictive, I never tried BL63 myself. But I would think they should be even better than NU 6F8G round plate. Can someone compare them for me? Are they worth $300 more?
  I was lucky to pick a Calibrated BK 747b for $150 3 years ago, never been happer after that. They are solid state by the way.
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I will have to send you a  6F8G adapter with a longer grid lead to try the BL63


 
  Go get him Glenn!!


----------



## rosgr63

Is there a conspiracy against me?
   
  It's bad as it is, don't need more tubes..........
   
  SO please put them right!
   
   




   
   
   
  BTW the Bendix 6080 are not dark, anything but dark, no comparison with the other 6080's, try them if you can.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I really didn't like the way the 7236 sounded. Bought a pair and used them for 10 minutes and sold them on E-Bay
> 
> I like the 5998 but never tried the WE421 or 2399 they should be run on the 5998 setting for best sound though.
> 
> Question  Rosgr63  have you ever tried a BL63 in place of a 6SN7 with adapter.


 
  Glenn,
   
  I agree with you that I did not like the 7236, too thin sounding for my needs. Never tried the 5998.


----------



## john57

. DP


----------



## john57

>


 
  I never had any luck with tubes that were labeled 5V3 or the 5V3A for me they are not the same as the 5AU4 tubes.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _A Wild, Wild Night, Way Out West..._
> 
> My overnight listening session just went Final @ 0700 hrs. Got three computers fired up, all engaged. Usually, I may operate one - sometimes, I simply shut everything down, the less the better. But this morning, all of them are whirling and in different directions.
> 
> ...


 
  Christmas came early the the Silent One!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> *Glenn please don't!*
> 
> You don't want me to get another tube addiction do you?
> 
> ...


 
  OK I won't send the adapters you would get a addiction to $300.00 tubes?  OK I will just bring them in the summer.
  Have you tried the LP2 tubes yet?


----------



## rosgr63

Now you are talking, you have made me very happy tonight, really looking forward to it!
And don't forget your tester too.
   
I have tried the LP2.
They are microphonic but they sound very nice and detailed they have qualities similar to some 6SL7 I tried but better.
   
 [size=medium] The base is strong the mids and highs excellent.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] They are nice to have and try from time to time.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] I am a tube addict these BL63 look good but can my transformer cope with 1.3A? [/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Now you are talking, you have made me very happy tonight, really looking forward to it!
> And don't forget your tester too.
> 
> I have tried the LP2.
> ...


 
  Your amp has that small filament isolation transformer for the LP2 and 12 volt boost for the 12SN7 that it will be pushing but it should be OK. Because it's output is 12.6 volts at one amp so at 6.3 I am sure it can handle a little more. Every one else that has one of these
  amps has no problem with the BL63 they have 5 amps reserve on the 6.3 volts
   I'm sure you kneed more tubes to try!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
_I'm kicking myself for not buying a tube tester. Had the chance and let it off the hook!_


----------



## 2359glenn

If you have some 6SN7s in that batch of tubes just put them in the amp. The best test is see how they sound. There is
  really nothing the 6SN7 can do to the amp. The 6AS7  you might want to test them for shorts though. other then shorts
  most readings from a tube tester are meaningless. Unless you bought expensive tubes that supposed to have matched sections
  you can test that you are getting your money's worth.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> If you have some 6SN7s in that batch of tubes just put them in the amp. The best test is see how they sound. There is
> really nothing the 6SN7 can do to the amp. The 6AS7  you might want to test them for shorts though. other then shorts
> most readings from a tube tester are meaningless. Unless you bought expensive tubes that supposed to have matched sections
> you can test that you are getting your money's worth.


 
   
  After further review, I can't use any of these tubes. At least not as is - an adapter perhaps, for one or two among the stash. There's certainly about two dozen worth selling, especially the Mullards. The rest I'll just gift and forget. Got a few really old rectifiers that look neat, and may keep just to be having things. 
   
  I did find a 1948 pair of round cylinder black glass GE 6V6GT's. Need to look up what they'd go in. Previous owner labeled a pair or two of '45s' that didn't make the cut. Will eventually clean 'em all up and shoot pix of the ones I an't never seen before.
   
  I did find a couple of manuals - RCA Receiving Tubes for AM, FM & Television (1950c) and RCA Victor Radio Tubes (1940c). Interesting stuff inside them...


----------



## 2359glenn

You can get a adapter to use a 12AU7 in the 6SN7 socket or a 6CG7/6FQ7 but you might be better off selling them and use the money to buy a real 6SN7 or
  one of it's variants. Better sounding then those 9 pin tubes. and you are not going to have one that beats your TSBGRP 6SN7s


----------



## Seamaster

I have used Mullard CV4003, and Mazda shield 6CG7 and Amperex 6CG7 with adapters in place of 6SN7. 12au7 type sound drier than others. 6CG7s sounded cooler and faster, but better extension on both end, especially bass present. 6F8G is better balanced in place of 6SN7.
   
  What do you think of Eimac tubes? Not limited for headphone amp.
   
  １００TH (Eimac） 5V 6.3A　100W (4T17)
 ２５０TL　（Hitachi)　 5V 10.5A　250W　（5T20)
 ４５０TL　(Toshiba)　7.5V 12A　450W　（5T30)
 ７５０TL 　(Eimac）  7.5V 21A　750W　（6T35)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You can get a adapter to use a 12AU7 in the 6SN7 socket or a 6CG7/6FQ7 but you might be better off selling them and use the money to buy a real 6SN7 or
> one of it's variants. Better sounding then those 9 pin tubes. and you are not going to have one that beats your TSBGRP 6SN7s


 
   
  Thanks! Ignore the PM I just sent asking you this very question. I walked into the room and sent the PM first and only now reading this thread.


----------



## rosgr63

I have used the following with adapters  instead of a 6SN7:
   
  2C51/5670/6385/WE396A/6CC42/7062/E180CC/6CG7
   
  12AV7/12AZ7 can drive the 6AS7G well.
   
  ECC40
   
  I need to try the 5687, sorry Glenn I haven't yet despite your request.
   
  I need to retest them all with my GR OTL 6SN7/LP2/5998, but need time.


----------



## Silent One

Up all night, rather than listening to music or watching TV, I have been sorting through tubes. Man, was this inventory of old tubes dirty! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did find a few this morning that I like. Wait, let me clarify that remark - by appearances - haven't tested or heard any of them. 
   
  I found a RCA Globe UX-245 with engraved base that looks beautiful. I remember when Glenn debuted the USAF-596. I wanted it bad and contacted him, not even caring if I couldn't use it, but what was 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 his asking price?! I was all set to simply collect that bad boy. Turns out, my amp was able to use it after all.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The story repeats itself here - I'm going to keep this beautiful glass whether I can use it or not. I do wonder though, if the OTL can some how, some way use it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sample of what I'm working with below:


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice tubes SO, let us know how you get on.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks. If, the master of thermionic valves himself suggests I could use the UX-245 glass, I'll stay up all night for impressions. And if not, I'll stay up all night anyway just to admire it.


----------



## rosgr63

From what I can see it has a UX4 base, so you'll need an adapter.
   
  It's a DHT tube at 2.5V you'll need two of them.
  I'll let Glenn fill in the details.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> From what I can see it has a UX4 base, so you'll need an adapter.
> 
> It's a DHT tube at 2.5V you'll need two of them.
> I'll let Glenn fill in the details.


 
   
  I just learned that in the last few minutes using my Goog-fu! Got some Cunningham C345's as well. So, now I got these '45' tubes and can't use 'em. Did I mention they're beautiful? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I saw a pair of '80' tubes in the box, too. Eventually, will see what I can use and process the rest.


----------



## rosgr63

Not just beautiful but stunning, curvy and sexy looking!


----------



## Silent One

The RCA & Cunninghams both look sexy..._got to find a way to use them._


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I just learned that in the last few minutes using my Goog-fu! Got some Cunningham C345's as well. So, now I got these '45' tubes and can't use 'em. Did I mention they're beautiful?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The 80 is an old rectifier that was commonly used in amps using the 45 as an output stage.   EML makes a reproduction now, good tubes and if it tests good is probably worth some money.
   
  I don't see how the OTL could possibly use a 45.  It's impossible for output, and for driver would require modification of the amp not just an adapter is my guess.  Even then the gain would be too low.  45 has 1/7 the gain of the 6SN7.
   
  They'd certainly work in a 45 amp though.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I have used the following with adapters  instead of a 6SN7:
> 
> 2C51/5670/6385/WE396A/6CC42/7062/E180CC/6CG7
> 
> ...


 

 Have heard good things about the 5687 in my reading, it is suggested to be a superior driver alternative to the 6SN7 by some people.  These were tubes from the space age era, the stuff that powered NASA and military equipment before SS entered the scene.  Because the engineering came from the military sector they were way better tubes than stuff like the 12AX7 and their ilk that was on the consumer side.


----------



## john57

I am currious on what does the 5687 brings to the table.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I just learned that in the last few minutes using my Goog-fu! Got some Cunningham C345's as well. So, now I got these '45' tubes and can't use 'em. Did I mention they're beautiful?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The 80s are the same as a 5Y3 just with a UX4 base instead of the newer octal. They could be used in a WA6 with adapter the OTL draws to much current
  for the 80.  Of coarse the 45 has to be in a amp with output transformers I could make a OTL with these but it would kneed 8 of them.
  .


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nothing clicked. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was tired and though I had been looking at the tube, nothing clicked. It wasn't until I realized it was actually a '45' tube, I would need an output transformer or some R&D wizardry. At which point I'd just get another amp. Yes, I am following your activity with the studio. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've long wanted a nice fat DHT amp.._.and a treasure map to find the funds for it._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I am currious on what does the 5687 brings to the table.


 
   
  I'm also looking forward to the reply...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks Glenn. I trust your judgement on the 9-pin 12AU7/12AT7 versus the TSBGRP. And will skip the exercise in buying an adapter only to dilly-dally around.


----------



## Seamaster

Got them in the mail. Little teaser , they are very heavy! Click to enlarge pictures.


----------



## rosgr63

They look very nice!


----------



## longbowbbs

seamaster said:


> Got them in the mail. Little teaser , they are very heavy! Click to enlarge pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Seamaster, Are those bulb testers?


----------



## Seamaster

They are the soul of my project. Transformers.


----------



## john57

Seamaster
  Is the bottom graph is with load and shows the powerband frequency response?


----------



## longbowbbs

seamaster said:


> They are the soul of my project. Transformers.




Big transformers! Pics during and after please!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Seamaster
> Is the bottom graph is with load and shows the powerband frequency response?


 
  Resistance with load. Looks way nice at HF, I little worry about bass.


----------



## Silent One

They're beautiful and look well made.


----------



## Silent One

_"Happy Thanksgiving" to all of you and your families..._


----------



## Seamaster

Thanks! Happy holiday everyone!
   
  Glenn told me to get a switch big enough, well here we go, a NKK with all silver internal contact.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> _"Happy Thanksgiving" to all of you and your families..._




X2 to everyone!


----------



## rosgr63

Happy Thanksgiving to ALL!


----------



## wotts

Happy Thanksgiving to all the Glenn Studios family!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## rosgr63

In Session with Sylvania 3DG4 "Light Bridge" showing
   
   

   
   
   
   
  The Underside as photographed by Glenn


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> In Session with Sylvania 3DG4 "Light Bridge" showing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  A sweet piece!


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Thanksgiving to ALL from Glenn
   
  A little late but we were driving to Atlanta Georgia 7 ours


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> In Session with Sylvania 3DG4 "Light Bridge" showing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  We like it...a lot! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What did your amp weigh in at? Kilograms or pounds, I'll take "First displayed."


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Happy Thanksgiving to ALL from Glenn
> 
> A little late but we were driving to Atlanta Georgia 7 ours


 
   
_Enjoy and safe passage..._


----------



## Xcalibur255

A Happy Thanksgiving to everybody.  Take care.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Happy Thanksgiving to ALL from Glenn
> 
> A little late but we were driving to Atlanta Georgia 7 ours


 
  Have a happy and safe time with the family, Glenn!
   
  We had a houseful and 60 degrees for the meal, 7 hours later we have 3 inches of snow on the ground and the temp has dropped to 25 degrees....Looks like it is time to get the Christmas tree up..


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Happy Thanksgiving to ALL from Glenn
> 
> A little late but we were driving to Atlanta Georgia 7 ours


 
   
   
  Have a nice weekend Glenn!
  Is the iPad charged?
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> We like it...a lot!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  About 16lbs, I would say.
   
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Have a happy and safe time with the family, Glenn!
> 
> We had a houseful and 60 degrees for the meal, 7 hours later we have 3 inches of snow on the ground and the temp has dropped to 25 degrees....Looks like it is time to get the Christmas tree up..


 
   
  Any left overs?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Any left overs?


 
   
  Plenty...First come first served!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> About 16lbs, I would say.


 
  I'm guessing that special transformer isn't nearly as heavy as the normal one Glenn uses.  I think a lot of the weight of the OTL comes from that big tranny.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn had it custom made for 230V and also to minimise any risk of damage during shipping.
   
  He thought about everything and I got much more than I was hoping for.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm guessing that special transformer isn't nearly as heavy as the normal one Glenn uses.  I think a lot of the weight of the OTL comes from that big tranny.


 
  Yes that is a special transformer made to go inside the chassis.But it has the same specs other then 115/230 primary.
  and alot lighter it also has a lower magnetic field.
  I have seen horrid things happen in shipping with heavy transformers when I worked for Harmon Kardon.
  I seen Transformers rip off the chassis and also hole CD4 stereos break in half with 4 power transformers two on each side.
     The new transformers from a new vendor are bigger and heavier only difference is they are 115/230 primary. More costley
  to ship bummer


----------



## rosgr63

SO I am trying a NIB Brimar 6SL7GT Black Base, Grey Plates, old style Ø getter.
   
  Sade never sounded so good.


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice! (Of course, Sade ALWAYS sounds good.. )


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> SO I am trying a NIB Brimar 6SL7GT Black Base, Grey Plates, old style Ø getter.
> 
> Sade never sounded so good.


 
   
  Just reading your description of the event has me already planning for tonight's session! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The current session is concluding in minutes, too late for the sultry Sade.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Nice! (Of course, Sade ALWAYS sounds good..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Don't start me reminiscing. Once saw her in concert four times in three weeks at three venues in-and-around LA with two dates taking each of them out twice. What a summer!


----------



## rosgr63

NU 6SL7GT now on test and from Sade to The Crusaders.
   
  Stronger low end but I prefer the Brimar with Sade as the mids are better than with the NU.


----------



## Silent One

Congrats everyone! I've been so busy, I hadn't even noticed the thread blew through 1,000 posts.




   
  The little studio that could did! 2359glenn|studio _is going places..._


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> Don't start me reminiscing. Once saw her in concert four times in three weeks at three venues in-and-around LA with two dates taking each of them out twice. What a summer!




You Smooth Operator....


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> Congrats everyone! I've been so busy, I hadn't even noticed the thread blew through 1,000 posts...




See what you started!


----------



## rosgr63

I am *By Your Side*!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> NU 6SL7GT now on test and from Sade to The Crusaders.
> 
> Stronger low end but I prefer the Brimar with Sade as the mids are better than with the NU.


 
   
  My Brimar does female vocals well. Earlier this morning I was thinking of putting The Crusaders - Southern Comfort in tonight's rotation. Previously played "Scratch" (vinyl). Which of their work are you featuring?
   
  Uh-oh! The sun came up...time for a quick four hour timeout! More from the_ Silent One_ late afternoon...


----------



## rosgr63

The Best of the Crusaders a 4CD rip.
   
  I still have the Street Life vinyl from when it was first released, when I was a young lad................
   
  Brimar goes well with female vocals as you already mentioned.


----------



## Silent One

I inherited all my Jazz Crusaders/The Crusaders from my parents. They sound great whether I'm house cleaning, relaxing, reading or writing. Yes, _Street Life_ is a monster!


----------



## hifimanrookie

silent one said:


> I created this thread as a place to foster the exchange of our audio pursuits with 2359glenn - Member of the Trade, as well as between each other. Some of us may already have or seek one of his custom amp builds, adapters or other audio solutions. And this is a place where we can discuss our activities..._enjoy!_
> 
> I first met Glenn when I sourced a pair of 6SN7>6DE7 adapters to place in my _Woo Audio WA 6 Special Edition_ amp. Shortly thereafter, he asked if I'd like to audition other tubes and adapters in return for feedback. This was the start of a very satisfying relationship with the designer. And I learned a lot as he continued to solve problems or suggest mods for head-fier's with a wide variety of amps.
> 
> ...




Its a bit late..but..First of all congrats on the 1000nd post on ur thread..that means ur thread is very interesting or u are  or both 

So if i would like advice about modding my darkvoice 337 (adapters and so on) he is the guy to talk to?

And OMG....i see that *****cat everywhere...even here..


----------



## Silent One

Absolutely!


----------



## Silent One

Update: The OTL now has 633 hours and emerging nicely...


----------



## hifimanrookie

​


silent one said:


> Update: The OTL now has 633 hours and emerging nicely...




633hours and still emerging? How many hours does a tube amp need to get at his best? OMG


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm almost certain it's at its best with caps, upgrades right now. It's just my patient mindset I suppose, allowing for 750 hours just on general principle.


----------



## hifimanrookie

silent one said:


> I'm almost certain it's at its best with caps, upgrades right now. It's just my patient mindset I suppose, allowing for 750 hours just on general principle.




Oh okay..smart thinking..but then again..with those kind of time scales i will be on pension before i finished all my upgrades on my 337 and burning them in seperately.. lolz..


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm almost certain it's at its best with caps, upgrades right now. It's just my patient mindset I suppose, allowing for 750 hours just on general principle.


 
   
  So sorry you have to endure the burning in process for so long....


----------



## rosgr63

SO is in the Audiophile Purgatory!


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> SO is in the Audiophile Purgatory!:evil: :veryevil:




Can't...resist.....Must....post.....

Suffering in Silence!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 _Oh, you're good...real good._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> SO is in the Audiophile Purgatory!


 
   
  That's it, I'm done! Since I can't find two nickels to rub together, I refuse to spend another dime on this hobby!




   
  Until Friday...


----------



## hifimanrookie

silent one said:


> _Oh, you're good...real good._



Yes he is..dangerously good


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Ooooo....I could use all those 12SN7s I found in my stash the other night.


 
   
  Just to follow up, did you rediscover any interesting glass in this series?


----------



## longbowbbs

I think Glenn should name his amp Nirvana because he can...


----------



## dminches

Nirvana is overused, as is Apex, etc. It deserves a more subtle name to express its quality.


----------



## longbowbbs

Glennvanna?


----------



## dminches

Getting closer....


----------



## Silent One

That sounds too close to hair salon products...


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just to follow up, did you rediscover any interesting glass in this series?


 
   
  I haven't had a pair of headphones on in two weeks! I am moving the OTL to the bedroom but haven't gotten another souce together for it. As soon as I do, I'll post some thoughts on the other glass.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Fantastique! I still need to get my TS-BGRP's tested; listed; SOLD.


----------



## rosgr63

I just got my pair of NE USAF-596 from Ultrainferno (thanks SO for leting me know) who has been extremely helpful.
  They look beautiful, waiting for some adapters, meantime I'm happy just looking at them.
   
  I ordered some 12SN7's to try out.
   
   
  As for name what about this strange one:
   
*GAMYHA*: *G*lenn *A*mps *M*ake *Y*ou *H*appy


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I just got my pair of NE USAF-596 from Ultrainferno (thanks SO for leting me know) who has been extremely helpful.
> They look beautiful, waiting for some adapters, meantime I'm happy just looking at them.
> 
> I ordered some 12SN7's to try out.
> ...


 
   
   
  Congrats! This has got to be very satisfying, considering you're already armed with great music.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks SO.
   
  I am still with The Crusaders moving to Osibisa next.


----------



## Silent One

I 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 knew it!


----------



## rosgr63

I am very simple and predictable SO!


----------



## Ultrainferno

We will need pics once your amp arrives of course 
   
  So do I start a new group buy already or not?


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Ultra, thanks again for the beautiful tubes.
   
  The amp has arrived and you can see it in the last few posts, I am waiting for the adapters now.


----------



## LordShad0w

Subscribed


----------



## longbowbbs

Can't wait for the 596's to show up now.....I should have Glenn's adapter when I get home tomorrow night.


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs you are very bad, playing with my sanity.
   
  I am looking at the beautiful 596 and I can see them glow, I can even feel them getting warm.
   
  And they are not even plugged in!
   
  Is there any hope for me or have I completely lost my mind?


----------



## longbowbbs

Hey. Look what I found floating in a bottle. It looks like a mind...any one around here lose one?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> longbowbbs you are very bad, playing with my sanity.
> 
> I am looking at the beautiful 596 and I can see them glow, I can even feel them getting warm.
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's over.


----------



## rosgr63

Osibisa is on now.
   
  Do the Steely Dan aficionados know they have recorded a song with Osibisa?


----------



## longbowbbs

http://mp3.li/index.php?q=Osibisa%20%20%20Us3
   
  Only thing I could find... Kind of sounds like a mashup  interesting though...


----------



## rosgr63

That's the one.
   
  Are your 596 with David now?


----------



## longbowbbs

I don't know. I would assume they should get to him any day.


----------



## Ultrainferno

The USA tubes havent arrived yet. The Australian ones are even faster!


----------



## longbowbbs




----------



## dminches

As soon as I get the 596s I will contact each of the US people.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> longbowbbs you are very bad, playing with my sanity.
> 
> I am looking at the beautiful 596 and I can see them glow, I can even feel them getting warm.
> 
> ...


 
  Maybe Santa Claus will give you some adapters for these tubes for Christmas


----------



## longbowbbs

Ho Ho Ho!!


----------



## Silent One

_Yes...rosgr63 is gonna be fat & happy!_


----------



## longbowbbs

Over indulge in Baclava and see what happens


----------



## dminches

If you are ever in south new jersey, there is a restaurant named Norma's which has the best Baklava that I have ever eaten.  They have several varieties but pistachio is my favorite.  It is beyond yummy.


----------



## hifimanrookie

dminches said:


> If you are ever in south new jersey, there is a restaurant named Norma's which has the best Baklava that I have ever eaten.  They have several varieties but pistachio is my favorite.  It is beyond yummy.



Thanks for the tip!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Maybe Santa Claus will give you some adapters for these tubes for Christmas


 
   
   
  Glenn, I like the way you and my other naughty tube mates slowly "help" me fall deeper into the bottomless pit.............. known as tube purgatory!
   
  I thought I was getting de-toxed............no hope.


----------



## dminches

Stavros, you will never experience an intervention from us, unless you _stop_ buying tubes.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn, I just sent you a copy of my letter to Santa!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Stavros, you will never experience an intervention from us, unless you _stop_ buying tubes.


 
   
  David how can I resist when I see a nice tube, impossible.
  Congratulations on your pair of A1384, they are fine tubes, John usually ships the same day.
   
  BTW I don't like baclava, I prefer my mother's melomakarona.


----------



## dminches

I have never had that but they look yummy. Personally, I am partial to a Hungarian cookie called a pogachel. One side of my family is from Hungary and they brought over some good cookie recipes with them.


----------



## longbowbbs

So here is a sad picture....Something is missing....Not the amp....not the amazing Glenn made adapter....Hmmm...I wonder what it is...


----------



## Silent One

Quick...call the Johnson Space Center!


----------



## hifimanrookie

​


silent one said:


> Quick...call the Johnson Space Center!




Or the guys from area 51  as that amp looks alien..hehehe


----------



## longbowbbs

It is growing tentacles!   The squid that ate the music!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Stavros, any thoughts on the 596 rectifier? I just started using one within the last couple of weeks ( after waiting months before finally ordering an adaptor from Glenn.


----------



## Silent One

With its wires, curves and demeanor, the '596' looks rather chic. And could be the model of tubes...


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Stavros, any thoughts on the 596 rectifier? I just started using one within the last couple of weeks ( after waiting months before finally ordering an adaptor from Glenn.


 
   
   
  Curvy, gorgeous, stunning, inviting.
   
   
  I can't use it yet waiting for my octo***** to arrive.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Stavros, any thoughts on the 596 rectifier? I just started using one within the last couple of weeks ( after waiting months before finally ordering an adaptor from Glenn.


 
   
  Sometimes, we need to be pushed...


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn is trying to control my addiction, unlike the rest of my friends who push me deeper into sin.
   
  BTW I got the chrome dome Xcalibur suggested.
  Going to try my 5998's soon.
   
  Whatever the tubes Osibisa sound great!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I have never had that but they look yummy. Personally, I am partial to a Hungarian cookie called a pogachel. One side of my family is from Hungary and they brought over some good cookie recipes with them.


 
   
   
  These are the traditional Christmas cookies and this particular recipe comes form our home village.
   
  Poor mother has to cook them all year round to keep me happy!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> *Glenn is trying to control my addiction, unlike the rest of my friends who push me deeper into sin.*
> 
> BTW I got the chrome dome Xcalibur suggested.
> Going to try my 5998's soon.
> ...


 
   
  There are times when addiction causes me to display bad manners. Um...Mr.Glenn...can I have buy your DHT Preamp? No, not custom built, I mean _yours._


----------



## rosgr63

Which one the 300B or the 2A3?


----------



## Silent One

I can't remember how his Preamp is configured, but do remember it's all DHT.


----------



## rosgr63

Maybe Glenn has more than one................
   
  I am going to downgrade you SO, until you come back to me with a full report on The Animals.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Maybe Glenn has more than one................
> 
> I am going to downgrade you SO, until you come back to me with a full report on The Animals.


 
   
  Wait...what kinda tea are you insisting I taste?! Who are those people? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm almost certain he might have a build or two before he went final and decided that's how he'll make 'em! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just remembered, he may have sold any extra gears on eBay - earlier models of stuff. He is in strong demand, you know...
   
   
  Update: now 25 minutes in and my PC hasn't locked. Hope it's behind me. If not, since it's my night off inside the listening room, I'll just shut it down and finish reading my book: _Dreaming In French, _by Alice Kaplan. I meant to finish it a few months back - listening sessions began to hijack my late night readings.


----------



## rosgr63

I am talking about the early War days when they co operated with Eric Burdon who was The Animal's front man.


----------



## Silent One

*O*, well now that you present it like that...this weekend!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Which one the 300B or the 2A3?


 

       #26 tube setup with filament bias A pain to find a pair of Quiet ones but when you do they sound fantastic .


----------



## rosgr63

SO you have to listen to Osibisa, Album Happy Children, Track We want to Know (MO).
   
  I have digitised my original vinyl collection 12-14 years ago but also got the CD's.
   
  #26 looks good too.......


----------



## longbowbbs

Fun!  I like this Stavros....Great recommendation.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, I'll research it over the weekend...


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks longbowbbs.
   
  If you like British Afro-Rock check their LPs, they are good.
   
  I hope to check them out  this weekend with:
   
  Fivre 6SN7 Brown Base, Grey Plates
  3DG4, maybe the 3 getter version Glenn sent me
  5998's


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looks like Clayton SF got me on Glenn's waiting list 
  I'll be contacting you shortly Glenn. Thank you very much already!


----------



## rosgr63

Welcome to the club Ultra!
   
  Exciting times ahead.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Ultra, what was it that you ordered and are waiting for. A custom built amp? Do tell...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Welcome to the club Ultra!
> 
> Exciting times ahead.


 




   
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Ultra, what was it that you ordered and are waiting for. A custom built amp? Do tell...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Looks like Clayton SF got me on Glenn's waiting list
> I'll be contacting you shortly Glenn. Thank you very much already!


 
  One good turn deserves another and another and another and another and another.
  This sounds like tube rolling to me.
  Hey, Ultra--I hope that you're feeling much better now 'cause I am, too--now that you're on the UltrainfernoTrain from Belgium to Glenn-dom!
  ALL ABOARD!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I was actually thinking of an amp for my speakers, since I moved I seem to be listening less to headphones.
  So maybe a Speaker amp/Amp for my orthos, if Glenn can make it of course!


----------



## Clayton SF

I too am listening less to headphones and more to my Zu Audio speakers. Glenn is making me a pair of 300B mono block speaker amps which will share the same top shelf as his hp amp.


----------



## Silent One

Congrats, Clayton, for both your selection and perseverance.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I too am listening less to headphones and more to my Zu Audio speakers. Glenn is making me a pair of 300B mono block speaker amps which will share the same top shelf as his hp amp.


 
  Which Zu's are you using, Clayton?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Which Zu's are you using, Clayton?


 
   
  The Omen Standard, Sangria. I love them.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Bring those next time, ok C?
  JK


----------



## Clayton SF

Then I'd have to make 2 trips to Belgium. (Which I don't mind.) But I'd need a duffel bag instead of that infamous back pack of mine.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The Omen Standard, Sangria. I love them.


 
   
  Gorgeous! Which amp (and how many watts) are you running them with?


----------



## john57

Nice full range 12 ohm driver with no crossover.


----------



## Clayton SF

I am currently running them with the Leben CS600 at 32W per channel using 4 6L6WGC/5881 tubes. It will run at 28W when using the 6CA7/EL34 tubes.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm still waiting for an official invite C


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm still waiting for an official invite C


 
   
  I thought we made it official when we were in Amsterdam drinking beers and toasting everything in sight including the Rubik's TouchCube.
   
  Alright, Ultrainferno, this is an official invite: Please take the next convenient KLM flight to SFO and I'll meet you at the airport. I've even looked up some flights for you


----------



## longbowbbs

Party at Clayton's....I'll bring the chips and dip!


----------



## dminches

Clayton, do you have pictures of your other HP amps?
   
  What piece is the Eddie Current on the right?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I thought we made it official when we were in Amsterdam drinking beers and toasting everything in sight including the Rubik's TouchCube.
> 
> Alright, Ultrainferno, this is an official invite: Please take the next convenient KLM flight to SFO and I'll meet you at the airport. I've even looked up some flights for you


 
   
  that cheap? I'll be right over!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Clayton, do you have pictures of your other HP amps?
> What piece is the Eddie Current on the right?


 
   
  I do have pictures of my other HP amps. I'll put it together offsite and send you the link when I'm done. I don't want to make this C's Online HP Boutique (right Ultra?). I should give all my amps to Ultra, he has more shelf space than me.
   
  The Eddie Current amp on the right is a Zana Deux SE. The amp to the right of the turntable is the Eddie Current Transcription Amp (phono preamp).


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I don't want to make this C's Online HP Boutique (right Ultra?).


 
   
  Auch! I'll stop posting pictures 
  Still room for amps, yes sure


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Auch! I'll stop posting pictures
> Still room for amps, yes sure


 
  I didn't mean for you to stop posting pictures. What I meant by that statement was that if I posted pictures of all of *my* HPs then it would become an HP Boutique. You do know that I have way too many HP amps. That's why I'm offsetting them with a non-HP amp from Glenn.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I didn't mean for you to stop posting pictures. What I meant by that statement was that if I posted pictures of all of *my* HPs then it would become an HP Boutique. You do know that I have way too many HP amps. That's why I'm offsetting them with a non-HP amp from Glenn.


 
   
  "Way too many" doesn't exist in our dictionary


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> "Way too many" doesn't exist in our dictionary


 
   
  Correction:
*You do know that I have way too many (don't have enough room for any more) HP amps.*


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> "Way too many" doesn't exist in our dictionary


 
   
  I am confused by this phrase..."Way too many".....It makes my head hurt.....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Clayton, do you have pictures of your other HP amps?


 
   
  These are some of my power amp and hp amps.
  The WA2 is on loan to Ultra.
Amps on Parade!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Not the first time I see this but I still fainted. 1-1


----------



## dminches

Clayton, seriously insane. 
   
  And wonderful too. 
   
  The next time I am in SF I am inviting myself over.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Clayton, seriously insane.


 
   
  Now does the phrase "way too many" start to make sense to y'all?


----------



## dminches

No, because each of us has way-too-much of something, right?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> These are some of my power amp and hp amps.
> The WA2 is on loan to Ultra.
> Amps on Parade!


 
   
  A year on Head-Fi and this is by far the most impressive thing I have ever seen...I lift my glass to you Clayton! I am glad to see I have a couple of the items in your collection!
   
  How long have you been at this? Also, could you share your Decware inventory?
   
  Thanks for all you do here.....


----------



## hifimanrookie

clayton sf said:


> These are some of my power amp and hp amps.
> The WA2 is on loan to Ultra.
> Amps on Parade!



My holey god...thats insane! And me thinking ultrainferno was the limit.. Oh boy how wrong i was


----------



## dminches

"Too much of anything is just enough."


----------



## Ultrainferno

C and myself make a good team! He's still winning though


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> C and myself make a good team! He's still winning though


 
  I don't know. It may be too close to call very soon. That's why_ the powers that be_ separated us to different continents.


----------



## Skylab

Speaking of too much, anyone want to get into the tube selling business?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Huge-lot-of-5000-6080WA-Thomson-new-old-stock-/251169225401

The guy has 5 lots!!!! 25,000 total. WOW.


----------



## dminches

I feel proud of my 3 amps (Leben CS-300sx, Decware Taboo and Cary SLI80) but I have a lot of catching up to do!  I am looking forward to my amp from Glenn.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Speaking of too much, anyone want to get into the tube selling business?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Huge-lot-of-5000-6080WA-Thomson-new-old-stock-/251169225401
> The guy has 5 lots!!!! 25,000 total. WOW.


 
   
  Are those nice tubes?  Only $36 each !


----------



## Skylab

Ummm...you mean $3.60 each! That's a great price for any NOS 6080WA. I'm sure they could be sold for $10-20 each. Never seen a French Thompson 6080.


----------



## dminches

That'll teach me to do the math in my head...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Ummm...you mean $3.60 each! That's a great price for any NOS 6080WA. I'm sure they could be sold for $10-20 each. Never seen a French Thompson 6080.


 
   
  Nice looking French glass, anyway. Also on that page is a tube tester in auction - Military TV7A U TV7. Before I get to "jumpin' in"...and jumpin' up & down if I win, will this box test for most (all?) of the things we'd like to see in a tube tester? Thanks.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I feel proud of my 3 amps (Leben CS-300sx, Decware Taboo and Cary SLI80) but I have a lot of catching up to do!  I am looking forward to my amp from Glenn.


 
  SLI-80 is one of my fantasy amps...One day I will have one!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> That'll teach me to do the math in my head...


 
  I hated Significant figures in math class.....


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Nice looking French glass, anyway. Also on that page is a tube tester in auction - Military TV7A U TV7. Before I get to "jumpin' in"...and jumpin' up & down if I win, will this box test for most (all?) of the things we'd like to see in a tube tester? Thanks.


 
  cool!
   
  Ever wonder what tests the tube tester? How do you know if it is accurate?


----------



## Silent One

This tester just under went calibration. There's a bit of irony in this purchase. I'm forced to sell tubes in order to afford the very tester the former tubes would be used for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There's always future tubes, I suppose...


----------



## Clayton SF

Speaking of tube testers. These are 3 of the 4 I own:
   
PACO
NRI Professional
Hickock 799 "Mustang"


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Speaking of tube testers. These are 3 of the 4 I own:
> 
> PACO
> NRI Professional
> Hickock 799 "Mustang"


 
   
  That NRI is gorgeous! The PACO link wanted me to log in @ Sky Drive. I was able to see the Hickock. A couple of weeks back, a family member was gifted 100 tubes and now they are mine, mostly various RCA receiving tubes. Though, there are a few different rectifiers and 45 & 80 tubes.
   
  I think it's time I finally skipped tweaking the audio rig and bring a box home for testing glass.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That NRI is gorgeous! The PACO link wanted me to log in @ Sky Drive. I was able to see the Hickock. A couple of weeks back, a family member was gifted 100 tubes and now they are mine, mostly various RCA receiving tubes. Though, there are a few different rectifiers and 45 & 80 tubes.
> 
> I think it's time I finally skipped tweaking the audio rig and bringing a box home for testing glass.


 

 That's weird. I specifically selected the "no log in required" option. I think Microsoft is being selective here and trying to entice people into a required login. I'll send you a direct email to see if SkyDrive will allow a "no login" access to my site.


----------



## Silent One

In the meantime, I'll go grab a tuna melt with smoked cheddar...
   
   
  ...it was worth the wait - saw it! You got some good looking boxes over there. Maybe they should figure more prominently in future shots.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In the meantime, I'll go grab a tuna melt with smoked cheddar...


 
  Sent....


----------



## john57

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Speaking of too much, anyone want to get into the tube selling business?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Huge-lot-of-5000-6080WA-Thomson-new-old-stock-/251169225401
> The guy has 5 lots!!!! 25,000 total. WOW.


 
  $18K plus shipping
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It maybe be a good deal to a young dealer.


----------



## Skylab

If you could sell all 5,000 for $20 each...


----------



## hifimanrookie

john57 said:


> $18K plus shipping:blink:  It maybe be a good deal to a young dealer.



Yeah if u can spare the money i think this could be a good deal on the middle to long run with the right advertisement on headfi or any other audio forum..


----------



## Silent One

You guys shouldn't give me any ideas...


----------



## hifimanrookie

[/INDENT]





silent one said:


> You guys shouldn't give me any ideas...
> h34r:




But we only mean it well... 
But if u do..i promise to be ur first customer...


----------



## Skylab

Yeah I'd buy a quad or two from you


----------



## longbowbbs

See SO, only 24,992 or so left to sell!


----------



## Silent One

Well, everyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 starts from somewhere...


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> These are some of my power amp and hp amps.
> The WA2 is on loan to Ultra.
> Amps on Parade!


 
   
   
  Very nice collection indeed!


----------



## Silent One

2+2=4gone conclusion. Yesterday, I spent a couple of hours looking for a tube tester. Same effort early this morning to no avail. Last minute, decided to hold off until Spring 2013. And made an offer instead to a dealer for a NOS pair of 12SN7 TS-BGRP's. I left word inside his in-box, as they're not listed. But, I made it clear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am interested. Hope to wake up at lunch time to some good news!


----------



## rosgr63

Good Luck!
   
  BTW Reference to iTunes 11 I miss the album art from the side bar and the fact that when I clicked on the song playing it would take me straight to it, didn't have to use a menu.
   
  The side bar album art feature was a good way to check the album art while scrolling through my library.


----------



## Silent One

I use to hear some on this forum speak ill of Cover Flow.._.I liked it. _But, I mainly use Playlist features in Amarra & Audirvana Plus.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yesterday, I spent a couple of hours looking for a tube tester. Same effort early this morning to no avail. Last minute, decided to hold off until Spring 2013


 
  I saw B&K 747B listed on ebay two weeks ago for $150. Just hang in there tight, they will show up again.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I spent a couple of hours looking for a tube tester. Same effort early this morning to no avail. Last minute, decided to hold off until Spring 2013.


 
   
  If/when you decide to get a tester you should buy one from Bob Putnak at tubesound.com.  His testers are always in great shape and fully calibrated.  You may pay a little more but an uncalibrated tester isn't worth much.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, I perused his site too. No need for me to fret, I'm up shopping Needle Doctor & Sound Stage Direct for some vinyl.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I use to hear some on this forum speak ill of Cover Flow.._.I liked it. _But, I mainly use Playlist features in Amarra & Audirvana Plus.


 
   
  I like cover flow.
   
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> If/when you decide to get a tester you should buy one from Bob Putnak at tubesound.com.  His testers are always in great shape and fully calibrated.  You may pay a little more but an uncalibrated tester isn't worth much.


 
   
  Could not agree more, the best tube money I ever spent were for a calibrated tester from Bob.
  One can get a surprise when they test the tubes they already have.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Speaking of testers, what would be an ideal (value) model for someone who doesn't deal and mostly just listens and tries a new tube once in awhile. A link would be cool. Would be nice to able to test tubes when I sell them...


----------



## john57

One idea is to get the tube tester that I am currently using: Sencore Model TC-28 Hybrider Tube/Transistor Tester You can get one from BRENT JESSEE RECORDING web site at http://www.audiotubes.com/testhybd.htm  at just only $299 plus shipping. This is a great price for a working TC-28 that is clean as well. It comes with a 30 day guarantee It is all meter driven and a large one at that, no light except for the power. It however will not test the older 4 pin tubes or the 3DG4 without a hack. I use another tester for the 3DG4 as well for the older tubes. Brent has other tester for sale as well. There is another person that I can also recommend as well. I just have to pull up that information.


----------



## john57

Another good place to buy a tube testers that are in good working condition is Bob at Tubesound. Bob is very knowledgeable on tube testers and will answer questions and his web site is full of useful information. Keep in mind that I use tube testers to weed out the bad and some of the weaker tubes NOT to rate them. Only using the tube in the amp can I be sure that the tube is even going to work well. As long you know what the limitations are the tube tester is a useful tool.
http://tubesound.com/test-equip-for-sale/


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





john57 said:


> One idea is to get the tube tester that I am currently using: Sencore Model TC-28 Hybrider Tube/Transistor Tester You can get one from BRENT JESSEE RECORDING web site at http://www.audiotubes.com/testhybd.htm  at just only $299 plus shipping. This is a great price for a working TC-28 that is clean as well. It is all meter driven and a large one at that, no light except for the power. It however will not test the older 4 pin tubes or the 3DG4 without a hack. I use another tester for the 3DG4 as well for the older tubes. Brent has other tester for sale as well. There is another person that I can also recommend as well. I just have to pull up that information.


 
   
  Can it test 6550 and KT88?


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Speaking of testers, what would be an ideal (value) model for someone who doesn't deal and mostly just listens and tries a new tube once in awhile. A link would be cool. Would be nice to able to test tubes when I sell them...


 
   
   
  Bob is great to deal with and honest.
  You need a tester that has a good leakage and shorts test as they are the most important parameters.
  Which one depends on the tubes you want to test, need to know that first.
   
  The best test is in circuit, but it's best to make sure a tube is safe to use and it's not testing very low without any life in it.


----------



## john57

Yes TC28 Mighty Mite VIII and the TC162 can test those two tubes as well. Here is more detail information about the Sencore from Bob web site
http://tubesound.com/2007/10/24/sencore-mighty-mite/  I classify Bob as a extreme expert.
   
  Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Can it test 6550 and KT88?


----------



## Silent One

I studied both vendor's offerings yesterday but logged off with cool feet. Not exactly cold like this is not a purchase I'm going to make. But one I may want to take a little more time with, based on the boxes I saw and the big box of older tubes I just acquired. So, I need to cover both sides of a generation. 
   
  Plus, they'll have other restorations going this winter that may appeal to me better.


----------



## rosgr63

Wise thinking SO.
   
  I have been running my amp with TS 5998's.
  They sound so nice with Glenn's amp, it does bring out more detail and a nicer presentation compared to my other amps that are not specifically designed for them.


----------



## rosgr63

I am trying my very first pair of 12SN7's.
   
  They are a matched pair of TS 12SN7 BGRP oval mica, and they sound good!


----------



## Silent One

This is great to hear! I finally located some - still trying to raise the cash.


----------



## rosgr63

They cost 1/4 of what 6SN7 cost.
   
  Joss Stone is now on.


----------



## Silent One

You may not recall... I'm "Yobless." So poor at times, even the proper letter "J" for "jobless" is just out of reach. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm thriving in this hobby and in life in part by selling off valuables I have and no longer need, no longer want.
   
  Hope to get a great job in 2013.


----------



## rosgr63

Good Luck SO, I am sure you'll do fine.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, I am upbeat, driven and _can be relentless when in pursuit._


----------



## rosgr63

That's what I wanted to hear.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You may not recall... I'm "Yobless." So poor at times, even the proper letter "J" for "jobless" is just out of reach.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My brother just got laid off and is full speed on the job hunt...No job at Christmas with a family is a B****....
   
  Good Luck to your search SO!


----------



## Silent One

I really appreciate it. I actually suspended my search for a couple of years while I serve as a caregiver to a loved one. 2013 is time for me to enterprise anew. And re-stuff my tea tins
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for audio.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Any place that you know of that thave them readily in stock? I haven't seen them.
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> They cost 1/4 of what 6SN7 cost.
> 
> Joss Stone is now on.


----------



## hifimanrookie

silent one said:


> You may not recall... I'm "Yobless." So poor at times, even the proper letter "J" for "jobless" is just out of reach. :blink:  I'm thriving in this hobby and in life in part by selling off valuables I have and no longer need, no longer want.
> 
> Hope to get a great job in 2013.



Sorry to hear that..but i know how u feel...finding a job can be frustating..but am sure, as u sound smart, that next year will be UR year..but pls..dont spend ur first salary on a lot of 1000 tubes then. Hahahaha kidding


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've made some remarkable gains in two years with this hobby, all things considered. But, I am nothing, without giving a honorable mention to more than a dozen fellow head-fier's here -_ you know who you are_ - that helped tremendously along the way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am humble.


----------



## longbowbbs

Some of us feel the same way about you SO...Thanks!


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, kindly...


----------



## hifimanrookie

longbowbbs said:


> Some of us feel the same way about you SO...Thanks!



Well..eventhough i am here since shortly..i feel the need to reply also..as in the way u post openly and how u gave me advice on few things here on this thread tells me ur a great person..and eventhough i know u shortly i am honoured to know u.. And showing i mean it..no emoticons on this one...as thats what i normally am wellknown for...as i said..2013 will be ur year..


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Some of us feel the same way about you SO...Thanks!


 
   
  Indeed!


----------



## Silent One

*Silent notes made audible...and visible.*
   
  A weekend update from inside the listening room. Friday brought quite the surprise. After a long, wonderful overnight listening session, I finally retired at 0930 hours. Some 90 minutes later, USPS rung the bell with package in hand. I recognized the vehicle by sound, stopping in front of the house - the only reason I rolled outta the rack to get the door!
   
  Although, I hadn't any known packages coming their way, I exchanged pleasantries with US Postal all the same. Some say, I am silent, yet friendly. I signed for it and brought it inside. In the upper left-hand corner of the package was a name and GPS coordinates from way up North. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Great! Mrs.Claus sent me some holiday snacks. _But sleep was calling and quick! _So, I jumped back in the bed leaving the package unopened.
   
  Two hours on, I was back on my feet...starving! _I could have eaten a wolf with yams baked around him._ I still had to cook brunch, so I tore into the box looking for pie, cake or cookies. Instead, what I found was canned goods. Not canned food but _real cans_, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




as in headphones! I received Senn HD650's for Xmas. It's only 9 December and I'm already looking to get them re-cabled.
   
  The items I did order, however, showed up Saturday - Music Hall cork mat; Mobile Fidelity Original Master Sleeves; Resealable Record Album Sleeves. It was very relaxing last night to sit down, clean records, and place them inside their new beginnings...while indulging warm bowls of delicate white tea.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice SO!
   
  Have you tried the HD650 yet?


----------



## Silent One

Yes, I got all of 4 hours on them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The other 5 hours went to the D7000. I think they sound nice. Beginning of the year, I had re-cabled HD600's on loan for nearly two months. Thought they were okay but not exactly for me. 
   
  I find the HD650 to sound better than its sibling. Very satisfying for me. My desire was to own both an opened and closed can. Technically, the Denon isn't closed but close enough. Now, I feel like I'm going places...
   
  Update:
   
  I did find the HD600 though to be better sounding than both the DT-990 (600 ohm) and K701 (50 ohm?). But, I also made some changes mid-year, so preferences could change quickly!


----------



## longbowbbs

The 650's are my can of choice....Toxic cables rock with them.  Congrats on the new acquisitions!


----------



## rosgr63

A new "super" driver has come up.
  I don't think it can be used without any mods but checking with Glenn just in case.


----------



## longbowbbs

Do tell?


----------



## hifimanrookie

longbowbbs said:


> The 650's are my can of choice....Toxic cables rock with them.  Congrats on the new acquisitions!



Oh..here u are hiding! 
Hey kittycat..wake up! check some other thread..maybe u will find something really interesting....and not being catnips this time! Does silver widow sound familiar? 
Congrats kittycat!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> A new "super" driver has come up.
> I don't think it can be used without any mods but checking with Glenn just in case.


 
   
  Don't keep us waiting


----------



## rosgr63

Please give me a chance to find out if it can be used first.
  I have a feeling a mod maybe necessary in which case it's a no go.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Do tell?


 
   
  Depending on how long he keeps us in suspense, we may need more than popcorn to munch on...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The 650's are my can of choice....Toxic cables rock with them.  Congrats on the new acquisitions!


 
   
  I really would like to get them "Dolled-up!" And I know just where to take them - Aphrodite Cu29. And let him hard-wire me a Zeus OCC copper 4x22awg installation. Well, once I save up enough Cab fare..._"Yo, Taxi!" _
   
  For a few months, however, I may have to settle for stock or a cheaper alternative. Cardas? Toxic?? We'll see.


----------



## longbowbbs

Aphrodite is a lot closer for me to get than Toxic. (about 3 hours away..)....Toxic's are terrific and a great value....


----------



## wotts

If I'm planning to recable, I will wait until I can swing the Zeus goodies. I bought a stop-gap measure for my HE-6 and now I can't sell it, short of losing over half of the purchase price. I might end up waiting until one of my other cans needs a recable and using that one instead. Lesson learned...
   
   
  In other news, I'm building a bedside stand to house my Glenn OTL! I'll post pictures when it's done. The project was to be done, but then my kitchen cabinets came in three weeks early. So much to do!


----------



## Silent One

An important update:
   
  This morning, someone shared their experience with Beyer DT-990 (600 ohm) cans. Selling an original pair, then later repurchasing a new pair. And found the latest to be improved. I know this experience well. So, for Beyer lovers out there, I wasn't belittling your beloved cans. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I am open to bringing in another pair. I find the thought of 600 ohms on the OTL to be appealing.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Aphrodite is a lot closer for me to get than Toxic. (about 3 hours away..)....Toxic's are terrific and a great value....


 
   
  Thanks, I may have a look at the 'Toxic' option. Anything that will avoid leaving my wallet in a _toxic state..._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> If I'm planning to recable, I will wait until I can swing the* Zeus goodies*. I bought a stop-gap measure for my HE-6 and now I can't sell it, short of losing over half of the purchase price. I might end up waiting until one of my other cans needs a recable and using that one instead. Lesson learned...
> 
> 
> In other news, I'm building a bedside stand to house my Glenn OTL! I'll post pictures when it's done. The project was to be done, but then my kitchen cabinets came in three weeks early. So much to do!


 
   
  If you've seen my profile, you'll know I'm addicted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 to WireWorld candy!


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, I may have a look at the 'Toxic' option. Anything that will avoid leaving my wallet in a _toxic state..._


 
  i can agree that toxic's are a great value for money.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn gave me the go or the new tube, so I am very tempted!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn gave me the go or the new tube, so I am very tempted!


 
   
  Did you mean to type _"...*for* the new tube?"_




   
  Is this something I can get in on the group can get in on?


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Did you mean to type _"...*for* the new tube?"_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Can you believe it? rosgr63 picked a night on which I was finally going to bed before midnight, to leave me up and in suspense. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Okay, I'll go to bed early Wednesday night...now wide awake on the West coast.


----------



## wotts

I'm up late tonight trying to troubleshoot my new DAC. I'm not sure there are WinVista drivers. I guess I better go buy that Mac now...
   
  Maybe I'll go cobble together something so I can rock out Glenn's amp. Poor thing hasn't been on for days - I've barely been home!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Ah he's teasing us now not posting the tube type!


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Can you believe it? rosgr63 picked a night on which I was finally going to bed before midnight, to leave me up and in suspense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Ah he's teasing us now not posting the tube type!


 
   
  I could use some new Glass up front in the _Drive_ position on the OTL. Outside of adventure, no reason.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I could use some new Glass up front in the _Drive_ position on the OTL. Outside of adventure, no reason.


 
   
  Yeah, What driver tube type does Glenn use normally actually?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You mean inside his personal amp or production amps? He may drop by shortly...


----------



## Ultrainferno

His "production"  amps he's making for the guys from this board


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I'm up late tonight trying to troubleshoot my new DAC. I'm not sure there are WinVista drivers. I guess I better go buy that Mac now...
> 
> Maybe I'll go cobble together something so I can rock out Glenn's amp. Poor thing hasn't been on for days - I've barely been home!


 
   
  Let us know when you get that resolved (DAC/driver issue). To prevent frustration, you should momentarily walk away and do something else. Like, say.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _flushing your fountain pen._ In only 10 minutes, you'll be back and all over that Vista thang!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

I'll bet it is shaped like an amphora!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Yeah, What driver tube type does Glenn use normally actually?


 
  What Do I use or what can the amp use? It can use some with adapters all of these and more. The power transformer has 5amps reserve so many tubes can be tried without worry.
  6SN7
  6F8G
  7N7
  7AF7
  12SN7
  ECC32
  ECC33
  6H12C
  1633
  13D1
  B65


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Let us know when you get that resolved (DAC/driver issue). To prevent frustration, you should momentarily walk away and do something else. Like, say.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I fixed it shortly before bedtime, and yes, I shall flush the pen!


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> What Do I use or what can the amp use? It can use some with adapters all of these and more. The power transformer has 5amps reserve so many tubes can be tried without worry.
> 6SN7
> 6F8G
> 7N7
> ...




If only there were some choices....


----------



## rosgr63

I will add:
   
  1578
  1579
  6SL7
  ECC34
  ECC35
  13D2
  QB65
  QA2408


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I will add:
> 
> 1578
> 1579
> ...


 
  I have never tried these I do know that the 6SL7 will work maybe with to much gain


----------



## rosgr63

The 6SL7 sounds good in my system with 6AS7G's, never tried it with 5998's yet.
   
  Apart from this, the 1579, ECC34 and ECC35 the others are similar to 6SN7.


----------



## dminches

The ECC35s would suffer from the same excessive gain that the 6SL7s produce.
   
  There aren't many amps or DACs that can use both 6SN7s and 6SL7s,


----------



## 2359glenn

You can also try a 6BL7 You can ask xcalibur255 how it sounds also SO may have tried it it does have less gain though


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dminches said:


> The ECC35s would suffer from the same excessive gain that the 6SL7s produce.
> 
> There aren't many amps or DACs that can use both 6SN7s and 6SL7s,


 
   
  Actually any 6SN7 amp that has a plate voltage less than 240v can use the 6SL7, Glenn can correct me on this.
   
  BTW the BA sounds great with the ECC35, even though it's a 6SN7 amp.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Actually any 6SN7 amp that has a plate voltage less than 240v can use the 6SL7, Glenn can correct me on this.
> 
> BTW the BA sounds great with the ECC35, even though it's a 6SN7 amp.


 
   
  If someone can further explain this I would appreciate it. How do I know the plate voltage of my amp is?


----------



## Silent One

(Plate voltage) I'd like to learn this as well. Since it won't blow anything up, I think I'll try one...soon.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You can also try a 6BL7 You can ask xcalibur255 how it sounds also SO may have tried it it does have less gain though


 
   
  If memory serves, we had two different experiences in two different states. He had the "X" mod and I didn't. I thought the presentation the tube offered was rather pedestrian and passed on it. With a revised amp, maybe I'll revisit it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Actually any 6SN7 amp that has a plate voltage less than 240v can use the 6SL7, Glenn can correct me on this.
> 
> BTW the BA sounds great with the ECC35, even though it's a 6SN7 amp.


 
  I thought they had a 250V spec just like a 6SN7 does?  Even if the nominal voltage was 240V it wouldn't hurt the tube to be over by that little bit I would think, it would just shorten the lifespan a bit maybe?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dminches said:


> If someone can further explain this I would appreciate it. How do I know the plate voltage of my amp is?


 
  I'll try to chime in here with my limited understanding.
   
  I think the way to know with certainly what the B+ (plate voltage) of an amp is would be to actually measure it.  This is a fixed value that is determined by the power supply design of the amp.  There is usually some loss (called voltage sag or drop) that happens in the rectifier tube which gets accounted for in the overall design, and the intent is to arrive at a specific voltage that the tube in question needs to be ideally biased.  Technically you can run a tube over or under its nominal plate voltage, with some consequences for doing the former, but I think most designers shoot for whatever the nominal value is as specified in the tube data sheet.  Whatever value results in the most linear operation without exceeding maximum values is ideal.
   
  So we get various "drop in" substitute tubes because their pin out is the same as the one originally designed for the amp, they want a plate voltage that is the same or similar to the original tube, and the other electrical parameters are close enough that the circuit still behaves as it was designed to.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If memory serves, we had two different experiences in two different states. He had the "X" mod and I didn't. I thought the presentation the tube offered was rather pedestrian and passed on it. With a revised amp, maybe I'll revisit it.


 
  I'd be happy to try it again if anybody would like.  My memory of the tube was that it was very good at some things and not so good at others, overall being too much of a compromise to use on a daily basis.  I recall the bass quality being terrific and the detail good but the imaging was wonky and flat.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'll try to chime in here with my limited understanding.
> 
> I think the way to know with certainly what the B+ (plate voltage) of an amp is would be to actually measure it.  This is a fixed value that is determined by the power supply design of the amp.  There is usually some loss (called voltage sag or drop) that happens in the rectifier tube which gets accounted for in the overall design, and the intent is to arrive at a specific voltage that the tube in question needs to be ideally biased.  Technically you can run a tube over or under its nominal plate voltage, with some consequences for doing the former, but I think most designers shoot for whatever the nominal value is as specified in the tube data sheet.  Whatever value results in the most linear operation without exceeding maximum values is ideal.
> 
> So we get various "drop in" substitute tubes because their pin out is the same as the one originally designed for the amp, they want a plate voltage that is the same or similar to the original tube, and the other electrical parameters are close enough that the circuit still behaves as it was designed to.


 
   
  Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'll try to chime in here with my limited understanding.
> 
> I think the way to know with certainly what the B+ (plate voltage) of an amp is would be to actually measure it.  This is a fixed value that is determined by the power supply design of the amp.  There is usually some loss (called voltage sag or drop) that happens in the rectifier tube which gets accounted for in the overall design, and the intent is to arrive at a specific voltage that the tube in question needs to be ideally biased.  Technically you can run a tube over or under its nominal plate voltage, with some consequences for doing the former, but I think most designers shoot for whatever the nominal value is as specified in the tube data sheet.  Whatever value results in the most linear operation without exceeding maximum values is ideal.
> 
> So we get various "drop in" substitute tubes because their pin out is the same as the one originally designed for the amp, they want a plate voltage that is the same or similar to the original tube, and the other electrical parameters are close enough that the circuit still behaves as it was designed to.


 
   
  OMG. So this is what goes on when I'm listening to music. Thank goodness we have the techs to explain this. Great explanation Xcalibur255.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, that is my memory of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 your memory - mixed results with the tube. And we both walked away from giving it full-time duties...


----------



## rosgr63

You can get a measurment by using a test socket and a DMM.
   
  If you measure across pins 3 & 4 for the first section and 6 & 7 for the second you'll know what the plate voltage is.
   
  My amp has a plate voltage under 250V, which is the max for a 6SL7.


----------



## Silent One

So, when will you announce?


----------



## rosgr63

Are you referring to the new tube?


----------



## Silent One

yeah...


----------



## wotts

_The suspense!!_


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> yeah...


 
   
   
  My dear SO, I am very surprised you are ever so thorough and you missed it!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I just returned home with great preoccupation - forgot everything that happened earlier today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps, I'll re-read the thread...


----------



## rosgr63

No need, just read Glenn's tube list, it's there!


----------



## wotts

I missed it too. I blame work! It was interfering with my forum comprehension...riiiiiight...


----------



## rosgr63

Well you are both forgiven..............


----------



## Silent One

Great! 'Cause I remember reading the list now...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the B65 has me intrigued. Doesn't Osram make a sexy aluminum base I'm always bothering you guys about due to its price?


----------



## rosgr63

Come on which is the new tube?


----------



## Silent One

ECC35. Though, I have never seen the QA2408 anywhere...


----------



## rosgr63

The ECC35 is the same as the 6SL7.
   
  For more info about the QA2408 search the 6SN7 tube Addicts thread for photos etc.
   
  The mystery tube is the 6H12C, a special military version of the 6H8C, that was brought to my attention a couple of days ago.
   
  It's an expensive and rare tube and not a direct equivalent to the 6SN7, use with care as it draws up to 1A heater current.
   
  Glenn's amps can handle them without any problem.


----------



## Silent One

That one did catch my eye but I actually mistook it for the Russian that is widely available. Does "Rare" = $$$ or $,$$$?


----------



## rosgr63

I've seen one, it costs $90 but it has a spit base, so I will not try it yet.


----------



## Silent One

Where to find the elusive Russian? You've gotten me interested. Will it work for me as a "Drop in?"


----------



## rosgr63

eBay and some of the Russian vendors.
  I don't know anyone in particular.


----------



## Silent One

On both Russian and Chinese sites, I'm seeing the equivalent 6N12S instead. Nuthin' doing on eBay so far...


----------



## Ultrainferno

I can't help you either with those


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I've seen one, it costs $90 but it has a spit base, so I will not try it yet.


 
   
  Okay, now looking at the same tube on eBay. What did your guru share with you about its magic (sound)? Will in drop in the 6SN7 slot or in need of adapter? You'll need to have an exchange with we me now, so I won't end up buying it over breakfast. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Better than the TS-BGRP or Brimar I have now? Also, how do the test numbers look and was it tested for gas & shorts? lastly, would you buy it, if not for the crack? I'm leaning...leaning hard so save me if that's what it takes!


----------



## Silent One

Tube frenzy --
   
  Although, I'm using the internet, I feel like I got Dollar sittin' on a Dime! (waiting for rosgr63 to get back to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Okay, now looking at the same tube on eBay. What did your guru share with you about its magic (sound)? Will in drop in the 6SN7 slot or in need of adapter? You'll need to have an exchange with we me now, so I won't end up buying it over breakfast.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nothing, he's never tried it, we are just going from various reports.
   
  Now if it was cheap and crack free I would buy it, but I am not going to through $100 away.
  Then again I'll never know how it sounds..............


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, let's go on the various reports - strong indication this tube is indeed "Super?" And what might it sound like? Thanks for your patience. _I'm still leaning, rosgr63...still you!_


----------



## rosgr63

You are most welcome.
   
  When you finish your research please post your conclusions.
   
  Is it a "super" tube or marketing hype?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You are most welcome.
> 
> When you finish your research please post your conclusions.
> 
> Is it a "super" tube or marketing hype?


 
   
  I left the Trading Floor - No "Buy" orders for tubes this morning. Went holiday shopping instead, but thanks for your guiding hand as usual.


----------



## longbowbbs

Hmmmm....6N12S=Truffle.....


----------



## Silent One

You've heard one? That good? _I love Champagne Truffles..._


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I left the Trading Floor - No "Buy" orders for tubes this morning. Went holiday shopping instead, but thanks for your guiding hand as usual.


 
   
   
  Sorry for the suspense SO.............


----------



## longbowbbs

I have not heard it, but from all the suspense it HAS to be good...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Mmmm.  I missed it too.  The obviously Russian tube number should have caught my eye in that list.
   
  So I guess the question is does this thing have an octal base?  If so then somebody could buy and try one right way if they wanted to. 
   
  I personally stay away from Russian tubes.  Not that they are bad, if anything they are consistently quieter and quite reliable because they're often overbuilt, but for this same reason they seem to lack inner detail and finesse in their sound.  I'd rather have the more nuanced sound personally.  Of course I have no idea how this particular tube sounds because I haven't heard one, maybe it is fantastic.
   
  A few weeks ago I tried out one of the Russian 6H8Cs that came with my speaker amp just for kicks.  I think the word "dreadful" was the first one that came to mind.  All of the great qualities of Glenn's amp are lost running that tube as a driver, it sounds like any veiled and dimensionally flat run of the mill amp.  To think that people sometimes buy really expensive tube amps and never actually roll their tubes in it, they have no idea what they are missing.  I remember reading about the guy who bought a maxed out WA5 and was determined to only run new production Electro Harmonix 6SN7 tubes in it.  Still blows my mind to this day.


----------



## dminches

I find it amusing that people buy $5k-$10k components and run EH or other stock tubes.  It happens all the time.  The Cary SLP-05 pre amp comes with EH tubes.  That is a $8500 unit.  Don't you think that there are at least 50% of those units running with the original tubes?  Crazy.


----------



## longbowbbs

They do provide a baseline sound to start the journey. Interesting to have a set to go back to the beginning when rolling...


----------



## 2359glenn

A manufacture like Cary really has no choice but to use new production tubes. They don't have the time to be ordering tubes
  on E-Bay and then who knows what you get.
      If I was supplying tubes with the amps other then the 3DG4 I would supply Sovtek. I know what I am getting and if there
  is a problem I can send it back.


----------



## dminches

I agree Cary should use new production as stock.  I was commenting more on what owners are doing.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Mmmm.  I missed it too.  The obviously Russian tube number should have caught my eye in that list.
> 
> So I guess the question is does this thing have an octal base?  If so then somebody could buy and try one right way if they wanted to.
> 
> ...


 
   
  You have no idea. I was just minutes seconds from pulling the trigger to try it out, adapter or no. Even allocated the monies for it before dawn. My exchanges with rosgr63 and the seller in the Ukraine, however, gave me pause. So, I got up and took my two biscuits over to Teuscher of Switzerland and ordered some Champagne Truffles.


----------



## Xcalibur255

So I put the 6BL7 in the amp again for the afternoon for some fresh impressions.  I made it a point to use different material this time.
   
  I dunno.  From a technical standpoint the tube is excellent.  Detail and clarity and excellent, maybe better than even the best 6SN7 in some ways.  I picked up details on three tracks I did not hear previously, tracks I recently listened to using the round plate Tung sol 6SN7.  So, that is saying something right there.  But..... something is just missing.  I can't quite put my finger on what, but is just kills it overall.  I want to reach for the stop button and quit listening because I'm not engaged.  There is also a big chunk of the lower midrange carved out and basically missing, this is very bad for my headphones, but there is more to it than just that.  Plus the wonky imaging, which only appears on some material.  It's like taking the stereo and compressing all the depth into a flat dimensional plane.  At the same time all the detail is still there, just presented in an unnatural sense of space.  Quite unusual.
   
  All I can say is the same thing I said last time:  the tube is really cheap to buy so the best thing is to try one out and see what you think.  It might work with headphones that are voiced very differently than mine.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So I put the 6BL7 in the amp again for the afternoon for some fresh impressions.  I made it a point to use different material this time.
> 
> I dunno.  From a technical standpoint the tube is excellent.  Detail and clarity and excellent, maybe better than even the best 6SN7 in some ways.  I picked up details on three tracks I did not hear previously, tracks I recently listened to using the round plate Tung sol 6SN7.  So, that is saying something right there.  But..... something is just missing.  I can't quite put my finger on what, but is just kills it overall.  I want to reach for the stop button and quit listening because I'm not engaged.  There is also a big chunk of the lower midrange carved out and basically missing, this is very bad for my headphones, but there is more to it than just that.  Plus the wonky imaging, which only appears on some material.  It's like taking the stereo and compressing all the depth into a flat dimensional plane.  At the same time all the detail is still there, just presented in an unnatural sense of space.  Quite unusual.
> 
> All I can say is the same thing I said last time:  the tube is really cheap to buy so the best thing is to try one out and see what you think.  It might work with headphones that are voiced very differently than mine.


 
  The plate and cathode resistors are not optimal for a 6BL7 but it will work with less gain then a 6SN7.
  If you have two you can try them as the outputs in place of the 6AS7s It will be pushing them. If you try this have the switch in the 6AS7 position


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The plate and cathode resistors are not optimal for a 6BL7 but it will work with less gain then a 6SN7.
> If you have two you can try them as the outputs in place of the 6AS7s It will be pushing them. If you try this have the switch in the 6AS7 position


 
  This crossed my mind actually, ever since you mentioned they could be an alternative for WA22 owners once.  I do indeed have two with the same plate type, both with noise issues sadly.  I'm going to try this out when I get a chance now. 
   
  Doesn't the high plate resistance mean we'll get very low power output in the OTL though?  Maybe the 6BL7 could be the foundation of an affordable transformer coupled amp if the right driver were found to compliment it.


----------



## john57

I learned that the Russian tubes are quite reliable and much better to use in a higher voltage amp.  The cheap Chinese tubes are just horrible in my older amp. Never tried the higher price Chinese tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This crossed my mind actually, ever since you mentioned they could be an alternative for WA22 owners once.  I do indeed have two with the same plate type, both with noise issues sadly.  I'm going to try this out when I get a chance now.
> 
> Doesn't the high plate resistance mean we'll get very low power output in the OTL though?  Maybe the 6BL7 could be the foundation of an affordable transformer coupled amp if the right driver were found to compliment it.


 
  They might be OK with high impedance headphones also they might not be noisy in the output stage. I guess if they were cheep enough and noisy it don't
  really mater if you blow them up trying this.


----------



## Silent One

I sold the only Sylvania 6BL7 I had. Will have to experiment with some other glass.


----------



## rosgr63

The 6H12C has an octal base and the same pin configuration as a 6SN7.
   
  I am trying Xcalibur's recommended Sylvania 6SN7 sounds good.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for the follow-up on the tube's base.


----------



## rosgr63

You are welcome.
  I have the specs if anybody wants them.
   
  What's on the decks now?


----------



## Silent One

R.I.P. - Ravi Shankar...


----------



## Silent One

Stanley Clarke - Lopsy Lu  7:05


----------



## rosgr63

Leningrad Cowboys


----------



## Silent One

My goal this morning is to retire before sunrise...gonna be a close one! I may tube roll Thursday night - it's been a little while. But, only because I have what I feel is my best tube complement installed already. Change is nice sometimes, though...


----------



## rosgr63

Variety is the Spice of Life


----------



## Silent One

I dig the whole Plug & Play with tubes..._next! _


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for the follow-up on the tube's base.


 
  OK...Where di you find the awesome 596 picture for your avatar?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> R.I.P. - Ravi Shankar...


 
  I'll have to play some Norah Jones in his memory!  a world talent lost.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> They might be OK with high impedance headphones also they might not be noisy in the output stage. I guess if they were cheep enough and noisy it don't
> really mater if you blow them up trying this.


 
  I'm trying this out right now while I'm on my lunch break.  
   
  You were right Glenn the tubes are quiet in the output stage.  The overall gain seems very close to what I'm used to with 5998/6SN7 surprisingly, maybe just a touch less.  You can tell the power isn't there though because the dynamics are pretty tepid.  No red glow of death yet, but they've been on less than 20 minutes.
   
  It doesn't sound bad actually, very promising.  It's super mellow but doesn't sound veiled.  All midrange so to speak, but the detail is there.  Nice open sound, very airy, good note separation.  The sound has the body it was lacking when the 6BL7 was being used as a driver.  The bass and treble are both rolled off some, the treble more so.  I suspect a 2K plate resistance combined with a 62 ohm load will cause this.  It is pretty dead up top.  I think this would sound bad with "polite" headphones like the HD650.
   
  This tube might make a really good output stage in a small moderate power transformer coupled amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm trying this out right now while I'm on my lunch break.
> 
> You were right Glenn the tubes are quiet in the output stage.  The overall gain seems very close to what I'm used to with 5998/6SN7 surprisingly, maybe just a touch less.  You can tell the power isn't there though because the dynamics are pretty tepid.  No red glow of death yet, but they've been on less than 20 minutes.
> 
> ...


 
  If you had high Impedance headphones like 300 to 600 ohms they would have worked better .   Back in the 60s there was a amp that used
  a 6SL7 first gain and phase inverter a 6SN7 driver and 6BL7 output they were mono amps but sounded real good of course transformer output
  to drive speakers. It put out 11 watts from the one 6BL7 and sounded great that is why I say they should sound good in a WA22.
  If it had better operating conditions A 6BL7 is a better sounding tube then a 6AS7


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm trying this out right now while I'm on my lunch break.
> 
> You were right Glenn the tubes are quiet in the output stage.  The overall gain seems very close to what I'm used to with 5998/6SN7 surprisingly, maybe just a touch less.  You can tell the power isn't there though because the dynamics are pretty tepid.  No red glow of death yet, but they've been on less than 20 minutes.
> 
> ...


 
   
  We need a stylized GKT (Glenn Knows Tubes!) T-shirt.....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_596.html


----------



## longbowbbs

Thank You!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> OK...Where di you find the awesome 596 picture for your avatar?


 
   

   
  I'll upload a 596 pic just for you Longbowbbs


----------



## Silent One

Don't you think it'd be better off spending the Winter in California?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Don't you think it'd be better off spending the Winter in California?


 
   
  Convince me


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Noble cause - Uniting United Electronics family members...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'll upload a 596 pic just for you Longbowbbs


 
  Why thank you sir!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Noble cause - Uniting United Electronics family members...


 
   
  We have a nice white Christmas going in Northern Wisconsin!  Ho Ho Ho....


----------



## Ultrainferno

I definitely have to come to the US next year. But San Fransisco and NY are on the list first


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I definitely have to come to the US next year. But San Fransisco and NY are on the list first


 
  Gee, I am right in the middle of both!


----------



## dminches

They call that place....nowhere!!!
   
  Having lived my entire life on the east coast, I am actually fond of the midwest.  It is a nice departure from the frantic pace I deal with every day.


----------



## Clayton SF

I actually love Louisville, Kentucky. But would rather live in NL/BE.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> They call that place....nowhere!!!
> 
> Having lived my entire life on the east coast, I am actually fond of the midwest.  It is a nice departure from the frantic pace I deal with every day.


 
  LOL!...The deer and squirrels like it that way!


----------



## Silent One

Lower ambient external noise levels in some isolated climes gotta be an audiophile & music lover's dream.


----------



## hifimanrookie

xcalibur255 said:


> Mmmm.  I missed it too.  The obviously Russian tube number should have caught my eye in that list.
> 
> So I guess the question is does this thing have an octal base?  If so then somebody could buy and try one right way if they wanted to.
> 
> ...



OMG..i maybe can be a noob compared to u tube guys and girls ..but even i understand thats sacrilegie


----------



## hifimanrookie

clayton sf said:


> I actually love Louisville, Kentucky. But would rather live in NL/BE.



Seriously? Why?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Lower ambient external noise levels in some isolated climes gotta be an audiophile & music lover's dream.


 
  This is where I live as low external noise as it gets even cleen power.South East   Grassy Creek North Carolina


----------



## longbowbbs

596 in the house!! (X2!)  
   
  With the awesome 2359Glenn custom adapter!
   

   

   

   

   

   
  hmmm....what could kitty be guarding in the envelope? Wrong thread but......
   
   

   

   

   
  New Toxic Cable Silver Widow cables!  Christmas comes early.....


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> This is where I live as low external noise as it gets even cleen power.South East   Grassy Creek North Carolina


 
   
  Living in the woods is great! We sure love it!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Seriously? Why?


 
  Well there's the Kentucky Derby (oh the infield!). And the rolling hills of Kentucky. Mammoth Caves. And of course Mint Juleps. And for dessert: Derby Pie!
   
  t'ain't nuthin' bedder than that, I'd say... then again... there's Amsterdam.


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs congratulations, Santa came early for sure.
  Your system looks very neat.
   
  BTW I like your cat, how old is she, around 3?
  Can I exchange her (short term loan of the cat) with my pair of 596?


----------



## Xcalibur255

6BL7 test #2 - I thought maybe I could perk the sound up by running a more lively driver so I swapped out the Hytron for a mouse ear Tung Sol.  It has better extension on both ends than the Hytron does.  It ended up sounding worse though, and has heightened my appreciation for just how good the midrange is on the Hytron GTs.  The organic and natural depth of the Hytron seems to shine through really well, and gives me the impression that the 6BL7 is adding little color of its own here judging by how different these two 6SN7 tubes sound in this test.  With the Tung Sol the upper mids gained some dominance making everything sound thinner, but the lack of top end is still obvious.  There is a "smallness" to the sound for lack of a better word, it screams "you're listening to a recording" rather than feeling like real music.  Too little power is making it out due to the extremely high output impedance.  I see the choice of output tubes on OTL amps is limited for good reason.  Heck, the 6BL7 even has fairly low plate resistance for a typical triode too.
   
  I think the base qualities of the 6BL7 are really good, but asking them to perform output tube duties in this circuit is asking too much of them it seems.  On an interesting note I will miss the fact that the amp is utterly dead silent with these tubes in the output stage, there is zero background noise.  You cannot tell it is even on until music starts playing.  It's going to take me a few days to get used to the wonky noises the 5998 makes again.  I'd love to hear an affordable transformer coupled amp based around the 6BL7 someday.
   
  Also, they didn't blow up!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm guessing they are at or over their ratings here but the tubes have been very well behaved while I was experimenting.
   
  On a somewhat unrelated note, Glenn do you think the 5687 would make a good 6SN7 substitute?  I see people selling adapters for this on eBay and the specs on the tube seem quite suitable for the most part.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




   
  Oh Glenn, that's some beautiful looking property!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> 596 in the house!! (X2!)
> 
> With the awesome 2359Glenn custom adapter!


 
   
  Lookin' mighty majestic there, longbowbbs! And you've got your own mascot to boot! Congrats on the entire gift bag!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> 6BL7 test #2 - I thought maybe I could perk the sound up by running a more lively driver so I swapped out the Hytron for a mouse ear Tung Sol.  It has better extension on both ends than the Hytron does.  It ended up sounding worse though, and has heightened my appreciation for just how good the midrange is on the Hytron GTs.  The organic and natural depth of the Hytron seems to shine through really well, and gives me the impression that the 6BL7 is adding little color of its own here judging by how different these two 6SN7 tubes sound in this test.  With the Tung Sol the upper mids gained some dominance making everything sound thinner, but the lack of top end is still obvious.  There is a "smallness" to the sound for lack of a better word, it screams "you're listening to a recording" rather than feeling like real music.  Too little power is making it out due to the extremely high output impedance.  I see the choice of output tubes on OTL amps is limited for good reason.  Heck, the 6BL7 even has fairly low plate resistance for a typical triode too.
> 
> I think the base qualities of the 6BL7 are really good, but asking them to perform output tube duties in this circuit is asking too much of them it seems.  On an interesting note I will miss the fact that the amp is utterly dead silent with these tubes in the output stage, there is zero background noise.  You cannot tell it is even on until music starts playing.  It's going to take me a few days to get used to the wonky noises the 5998 makes again.  I'd love to hear an affordable transformer coupled amp based around the 6BL7 someday.
> 
> ...


 
   
  A completely black and dead silent background is so inviting. Inside my own room, the few times I have experienced my rig leaning that way, things quickly turn to _"Not so fast.." _It seems, I'm always having to give up something. And it becomes apparent right on the heels of this short lived moment of magic.


----------



## hifimanrookie

longbowbbs said:


> Living in the woods is great! We sure love it!



That must be really relaxing..here in amsterdam..no free space to find..and no fresh air..yeah we have a fake forest..  but we do have nice beaches 20 miles away..lolzy
And ur cat is so lucky..fresh air..new toxic cables to play with..
Question..whats that big tube with the two connectors about? Never saw that before..am curious..
And congrats on those really nice looking and probably wonderfull sounding toxic cables..enjoy them!


----------



## rosgr63

It's a [size=small]Brätwurst[/size] disguised as a 596.
   
  The 596 is made by United Electronics and is a rectifier.


----------



## hifimanrookie

rosgr63 said:


> It's a [COLOR=222222]Brätwurst[/COLOR] disguised as a 596.
> 
> The 596 is made by United Electronics and is a rectifier.



Thanks for the explanation rosgr63..


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Question..whats that big tube with the two connectors about? Never saw that before..am curious..


 
   
  where have you been this last year? Read Mister! 
  And before you ask, no sorry I shipped out 24 596 tubes already and have none left, maybe in a few months


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> It's a [size=small]Brätwurst[/size] disguised as a 596.


 
   
  You really do have a Bratwürst fixation, don't you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Silent One, a Decware, Glenn amp, Bratwürst & Beer meet in Cali would convince me to come over for sure.
  Do you think airport customs would mind me bringing dozens of tubes for you guys? Where's Clayton's back pack? 
   
  I'm hungry now!


----------



## hifimanrookie

ultrainferno said:


> where have you been this last year? Read Mister!
> And before you ask, no sorry I shipped out 24 596 tubes already and have none left, maybe in a few months



Relax mr.! I only have been in this thread since a month or so..so no i didnt read all the 1404 posts before these..and am not as experienced as u ultrainferno.i started with tubing only 2 Months ago! .but am very curious..so its not bad to ask right? So take a relax pill.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Pills taken. It's just that it gets on my nerves when the answers are clearly in the thread or on Google


----------



## hifimanrookie

ultrainferno said:


> Pills taken. It's just that it gets on my nerves when the answers are clearly in the thread or on Google



I understand that..but sometimes its easier to ask..as thread is so long! and it only needs a simple answer..and i didnt even know it was a rectifier  how could i look that up in Google if i didnt even know that? On the pic i couldnt know it was a rectifier..i saw a big sexy tube only.and a cat...lolz 

I am a computer specialist as hobby and built the most extreme watercooled pc's for myself and others...and sometimes i do get questions also that i think..geesh..check google people..its so easy...but when overthinkin it..i understand allthough it sometimes seems completely clear to me, to noobs it sounds like chinese..and in this situation i am the noob.  but believe me i am onthe overrun lane..driving in uberspeed..before no time i will be up to speed about all whats tubes and amps.. I only need time and u guys and girls from tube-universe to guide me..  
friends again?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> 6BL7 test #2 - I thought maybe I could perk the sound up by running a more lively driver so I swapped out the Hytron for a mouse ear Tung Sol.  It has better extension on both ends than the Hytron does.  It ended up sounding worse though, and has heightened my appreciation for just how good the midrange is on the Hytron GTs.  The organic and natural depth of the Hytron seems to shine through really well, and gives me the impression that the 6BL7 is adding little color of its own here judging by how different these two 6SN7 tubes sound in this test.  With the Tung Sol the upper mids gained some dominance making everything sound thinner, but the lack of top end is still obvious.  There is a "smallness" to the sound for lack of a better word, it screams "you're listening to a recording" rather than feeling like real music.  Too little power is making it out due to the extremely high output impedance.  I see the choice of output tubes on OTL amps is limited for good reason.  Heck, the 6BL7 even has fairly low plate resistance for a typical triode too.
> 
> I think the base qualities of the 6BL7 are really good, but asking them to perform output tube duties in this circuit is asking too much of them it seems.  On an interesting note I will miss the fact that the amp is utterly dead silent with these tubes in the output stage, there is zero background noise.  You cannot tell it is even on until music starts playing.  It's going to take me a few days to get used to the wonky noises the 5998 makes again.  I'd love to hear an affordable transformer coupled amp based around the 6BL7 someday.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The 5687 looks like a good sub for the 6SN7 the curves look good how it sounds I have no idea. I can make you a adapter if you want?
  Actually the 6BL7 wasn't run to hard it only had 120 volts across it so it's current wasn't that high.  If you had 300 to 600 ohm headphones
  your test would have come out different. After I build the next one of these amps I will try them with the HD655s and HD800s   300 ohm.
  Also you can try the 6BX7 almost the same as a 6BL7 but with a gain of 10 instead of 16 also can be gotten for cheep.
      The 6BL7 sounds fantastic in a transformer output amp in push pull


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> longbowbbs congratulations, Santa came early for sure.
> Your system looks very neat.
> 
> BTW I like your cat, how old is she, around 3?
> Can I exchange her (short term loan of the cat) with my pair of 596?


 
  She is a spry 8!  Clean living and lots of catnip....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sorry though...No loaner cat's are currently available. I don't need the payback!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Lookin' mighty majestic there, longbowbbs! And you've got your own mascot to boot! Congrats on the entire gift bag!!!


 
  Thanks SO. The mighty 596 is a sweet piece of glass. I had to drive over 450 miles yesterday and I almost didn't go to bed the sound was so sweet....


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You really do have a Bratwürst fixation, don't you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  hmmm...checking the frequent flyer points for the freebie to Cali.......We may have to import Brats to Cali, not sure if they have the real ones there.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Relax mr.! I only have been in this thread since a month or so..so no i didnt read all the 1404 posts before these..and am not as experienced as u ultrainferno.i started with tubing only 2 Months ago! .but am very curious..so its not bad to ask right? So take a relax pill.


 
   
  I don't mind answering questions asked before.
  The sad thing is you're becoming an addict too fast, watch it!!!!!!!!!
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> She is a spry 8!  Clean living and lots of catnip....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Well I'll try a bit harder, what about a nice pair NIB ECC32's?


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Well I'll try a bit harder, what about a nice pair NIB ECC32's?




Beware of Greeks bearing driver tubes!


----------



## rosgr63

Oh, come on, I'll add a nice B65 on top!


----------



## hifimanrookie

rosgr63 said:


> I don't mind answering questions asked before.
> The sad thing is you're becoming an addict too fast, watch it!!!!!!!!!



Is that so? I only have 6 pairs of tubes on their way to me right now...thats not an addiction right?


----------



## hifimanrookie

Damn..that kittycat is becoming popular..be carefull its not going to be catnapped soon by some greek or some bratwurst ganger..if i were u i would get urself a bear or something from the forest as bodyguard for the kittycat ..just to be sure  or buy a vintage security system based on tubes..am sure u have enough tubes laying around for that..hehehe


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Damn..that kittycat is becoming popular..be carefull its not going to be catnapped soon by some greek or some bratwurst ganger..if i were u i would get urself a bear or something from the forest as bodyguard for the kittycat ..just to be sure
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  We have bears here...They take the bird feeders down if we do not take them in at night. Wolves too, but more Coyotes. Lot's of deer....We have about 8 inches of snow on the ground now so Winter is here until late April. Time to wax up the CC Ski's!


----------



## dminches

I just received a bunch of adapters from Glenn.  I cannot tell you how well built these are.  I can only imagine when one of his amps feels like, let alone sounds like.
   
  Thanks Glenn.


----------



## longbowbbs

My 596 adapter is terrific. Firm fit in the amp and the top connectors are solid without being too tight. Glenn builds them right!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Is that so? I only have 6 pairs of tubes on their way to me right now...thats not an addiction right?


 
   
  6 pairs already, I think you need counselling..........
  It's the first step...........
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> We have bears here...They take the bird feeders down if we do not take them in at night. Wolves too, but more Coyotes. Lot's of deer....We have about 8 inches of snow on the ground now so Winter is here until late April. Time to wax up the CC Ski's!


 
   
   
  So you have time to evaluate the 596 and tell us what you think of it!
  We expect a report by Sunday night, or else.................the bears...............


----------



## hifimanrookie

rosgr63 said:


> 6 pairs already, I think you need counselling..........
> It's the first step...........
> 
> 
> ...



Am only afraid now that u guys and girls come up with good sounding tubes for my 337.. As then i am forced to buy them as well..so have mercy with me..pleeeease.  

Only real bears? What about headfi'ers camouflaged as bears? even real bears are terrified for these kind of creatures..as these are ruthless..especially when they want to see reviews..


----------



## Silent One

Tip: An image search through Google or perhaps your fav search engine will return same and similar pix/results. A quick way to get the dirt!


----------



## rosgr63

I thought you'd still be asleep!
   
  Apologies for polluting your thread but it's longbowbbs' fault posting nice photos..............
   
  (Any excuse)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> 6 pairs already, I think you need counselling..........
> It's the first step...........
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'll probably be a bit tardy on the 596 review as I have to complete with Toxic Cable Silver Widow review first. Then I'll do some Rectifier rolling and post up on the mighty 596!


----------



## hifimanrookie

rosgr63 said:


> I thought you'd still be asleep!
> 
> Apologies for polluting your thread but it's longbowbbs' fault posting nice photos..............
> 
> (Any excuse)



Yes. He is to blame  and i wanna see that silver widow cable review also


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I thought you'd still be asleep!
> 
> Apologies for polluting your thread but it's longbowbbs' fault posting nice photos..............
> 
> (Any excuse)


 
  Your Honor I plead....GUILTY!!!.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I may have to order another adapter as I am now contemplating the Taboo to join my CSP2+...Twin 596's could be in the works!  (Must stay under control with $$.....) (No, go for it!)...(No....Take your time....)
   
  Did someone hear voices?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I thought you'd still be asleep!
> 
> Apologies for polluting your thread but it's longbowbbs' fault posting nice photos..............
> 
> (Any excuse)


 
   
  Sleep? I've got it marked down on the calendar to get some tomorrow...perhaps.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Your Honor I plead....GUILTY!!!.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I can hear the Taboo crying :
   
  Please take me home, I want to meet your cat and the Toxic HD650.
  I'll be ever so good and please you as best as I can!


----------



## hifimanrookie

rosgr63 said:


> I can hear the Taboo crying :
> 
> Please take me home, I want to meet your cat and the Toxic HD650.
> I'll be ever so good and please you as best as I can!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I can hear the Taboo crying :
> 
> Please take me home, I want to meet your cat and the Toxic HD650.
> I'll be ever so good and please you as best as I can!


 
  Siren song....I am caught between Scylla and Charybdis on this...


----------



## rosgr63

When the Sirens call are you going to be as strong as Ulysses?


----------



## Silent One

He will fall........_.into the waters that await._


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> When the Sirens call are you going to be as strong as Ulysses?


 
  I will resist! (err...maybe...)


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The 5687 looks like a good sub for the 6SN7 the curves look good how it sounds I have no idea. I can make you a adapter if you want?
> Actually the 6BL7 wasn't run to hard it only had 120 volts across it so it's current wasn't that high.  If you had 300 to 600 ohm headphones
> your test would have come out different. After I build the next one of these amps I will try them with the HD655s and HD800s   300 ohm.
> Also you can try the 6BX7 almost the same as a 6BL7 but with a gain of 10 instead of 16 also can be gotten for cheep.
> The 6BL7 sounds fantastic in a transformer output amp in push pull


 

 If you have the time that would be great Glenn.  This tube seems to have a good reputation, I thought it might be worth trying out.
   
  So many good tubes out there, it's overwhelming.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I just received a bunch of adapters from Glenn.  I cannot tell you how well built these are.  I can only imagine when one of his amps feels like, let alone sounds like.
> 
> Thanks Glenn.


 
   
   
*Glenn's amps* are built very nicely and if anything over designed to cope with so many different tubes!
  It's Gleenn's magic!


----------



## longbowbbs

I am sure loving my adapter with the Mighty 596!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I am sure loving my adapter with the Mighty 596!


 
  And I am surely loving my adapter with the Humungous 5Ц8C!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Hey C! The gf is checking flight prices to SF


----------



## Clayton SF

All I can do to take my mind off of this dismal San Francisco weather, is to look out of my window and think of wonderful things that may lie ahead of me.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Hey C! The gf is checking flight prices to SF


 
  Hey L!


----------



## snapple10

Got the tube going, adapter works great. Great work , excellent communication and prompt service. Am pleased!
Now, am getting an idea. Glen, can you make a single amp to use with SE and balanced phones?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And I am surely loving my adapter with the Humungous 5Ц8C!


 
   
  Which amp is that awesome tube running on?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> All I can do to take my mind off of this dismal San Francisco weather, is to look out of my window and think of wonderful things that may lie ahead of me.


 
   
  This is a phenomenal shot!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> Got the tube going, adapter works great. Great work , excellent communication and prompt service. Am pleased!
> Now, am getting an idea. Glen, can you make a single amp to use with SE and balanced phones?


 
   
  Congrats on your acquisition! Also, balanced configured cans would simply need a single-ended adapter. An example of my cans below:
   
   

   
   
  Looking forward to you getting a custom build by 2359glenn. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  BTW, thanks for convincing me to keep them.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Which amp is that awesome tube running on?


 
   
  Silent One. Is there an official name to Glenn's amp?
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is a phenomenal shot!


 

 Thanks, SO.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Not at this time. Then consider there are/will be different configs coming out of the studio. I believe Seamaster is working on a signature stamp for Glenn to use, though.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not at this time. Then consider there are/will be different configs coming out of the studio. I believe Seamaster is working on a signature stamp for Glenn to use, though.


 
   
  I was thinking about the version I have which is also the one you have or at least the one that you started off with.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Initially, I encouraged Glenn to name his amps. And quietly stepped aside when the new focus became getting our guy back to improved health. I still would like to have an official name, designation or reference for it. _Of late, I've had some storied overnight listening sessions with the amp. Complete with._..(not suitable for public pages).


----------



## rosgr63

Currently using a Toshiba 6FQ7 with one of Glenn's adapters.
  It drives the 5998's nicely.


----------



## Seamaster

Best 6fq7 6cg7 is Mazda with heat shield. You can also try 6F8G, but they are getting expensive.
   
  Hello, Glenn I am still gathering parts. Just started full time college and work full time. So busy...


----------



## 2359glenn

That is OK I am behind on everything.Going to use Christmas break from work to try and catchup But I think
  my girlfriend has other things in mind. Plus I have a bunch of tests to have taken right after Christmas.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Best 6fq7 6cg7 is Mazda with heat shield. You can also try 6F8G, but they are getting expensive.
> 
> Hello, Glenn I am still gathering parts.* Just started full time college *and work full time. So busy...


----------



## Seamaster

Here is the logo I came up with


----------



## Silent One

Great job! Looks classy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to me...weigh-in everybody. Love that Glass, by-the-way!


----------



## wotts

Very nice.


----------



## Seamaster

It is a acually a 3D image, but you need THE software to view it.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Best 6fq7 6cg7 is Mazda with heat shield. You can also try 6F8G, but they are getting expensive.
> 
> Hello, Glenn I am still gathering parts. Just started full time college and work full time. So busy...


 
   
  Are you refering to a Mazda 6F8G or any?
  I can use 6CG8/6FQ7/2C51/12AV7/6F8G/12SN7/LP2 with the amp.
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> That is OK I am behind on everything.Going to use Christmas break from work to try and catchup But I think
> my girlfriend has other things in mind. Plus I have a bunch of tests to have taken right after Christmas.


 
   
*L is very wise!!!!!!*
   
  Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Here is the logo I came up with


 
   
   
  Nice Logo, well done.
  Gool luck in college.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> It is a acually a 3D image, but you need THE software to view it.


 
   





 You mean you're holding out on us for more money?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Where can I view it in all its glory?


----------



## Silent One

A box of chocolates? Well, the box that landed on the front porch this afternoon sure did have the perfect dimensions. Plus, I was hungry at the time I retrieved the package, so why not?! Opening the box, I discovered it wasn't full of chocolates. Instead, I found only two pieces of candy - a Stefan cable for the HD-650 & a Blue Dragon for the cans as well. 
   
  I'm pushing paper (administrative) at the moment. But, will fire up the OTL rig and cruise for a few hours beginning at midnight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Update: Just wanted to mention that these cables are on loan, we can't afford such goodies. But, a fellow head-fier was kind enough and interested enough in wanting to hear my thoughts. Who am I to argue?


----------



## john57

I have the software and can view it on my 3D monitor and my new 3D digital picture frame that just came in. Electronics and photography were my interest when I was a young kid and still is. I might be able to print the picture on Lenticular paper.
  Quote: 





seamaster said:


> It is a actually a 3D image, but you need THE software to view it.


----------



## Silent One

Oh, john57 you're good....real good!


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Here is the logo I came up with


 

 cool.simple and classy!..its vintage looking with those rounded style of letters..as if its written by a vintage goose feather dipped in ink (like in the VERY OLD days)..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and because of the 3d effect contempary (modern) also...very smart done! respect!


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> That is OK I am behind on everything.Going to use Christmas break from work to try and catchup But I think
> my girlfriend has other things in mind. Plus I have a bunch of tests to have taken right after Christmas.




We appreciate all you do, Glenn. The priority is your health. Enjoy the holidays. We are all thinking of you and sending healing vibes!


----------



## rosgr63

Santa came early!
   
  I just received Glenn's parcel and I am tempted to open it now before Christmas.
   
  It's a tough decision..............


----------



## longbowbbs

Oh go on! Open it...play some Christmas songs and it will be OK!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Oh go on! Open it...play some Christmas songs and it will be OK!


 
   
  x2.
   
  You'll have plenty of other gifts to open


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> x2.
> 
> You'll have plenty of other gifts to open




We are assuming you have been good.....


----------



## longbowbbs

Looks like a blizzard coming this week. I hope I don't get stuck in a hotel and cannot work and am forced to listen to my portable rig all day....( come on snow!!)


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have 2 weeks off starting friday! After Christmas I'm gonna lock myself up in my listening room for at least 3 days with a microwave a fridge and a freezer full of food and alcoh euh drinks!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> We are assuming you have been good.....


 
   
   
  Good doesn't suit me..................


----------



## hifimanrookie

longbowbbs said:


> Oh go on! Open it...play some Christmas songs and it will be OK!



+3 open it..am sure santa sent it to u as u have been good


----------



## hifimanrookie

longbowbbs said:


> Looks like a blizzard coming this week. I hope I don't get stuck in a hotel and cannot work and am forced to listen to my portable rig all day....( come on snow!!)




Yeah that would be a real nightmare..listening to music on ur headphone and something to keep u warm in ur hand..  oh soooooo scary!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Here is the logo I came up with


 
  Thanks Seamaster I think it looks great!! Were can I have some of these made?


----------



## john57

If *Seamaster* sends me the 3D file in a MPO or side by side file I can see how it looks on my 3D monitor or my new 3D digital picture frame. For the 3D picture frame I would need the original hi res picture preferable in 2D since I would have to convert it to a specialized 3D format for the digital picture frame. On the other hand the logo in 2D is good for a printed metal sticker. I can also get printable Lenticular paper but would cost about $15 per print.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  +2!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Thanks Seamaster I think it looks great!! Were can I have some of these made?


 
  There are many place online print them as metalized stickers.
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> If *Seamaster* sends me the 3D file in a MPO or side by side file I can see how it looks on my 3D monitor or my new 3D digital picture frame. For the 3D picture frame I would need the original hi res picture preferable in 2D since I would have to convert it to a specialized 3D format for the digital picture frame. On the other hand the logo in 2D is good for a printed metal sticker. I can also get printable Lenticular paper but would cost about $15 per print.


 
  I used my friend's computer did this. He is in school for boat design. But he just left to country today for a month. The only copy is this one. Is it going to work?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Santa came early!
> 
> I just received Glenn's parcel and I am tempted to open it now before Christmas.
> 
> It's a tough decision..............


 
  You might as well open it.
  I put nothing in the box that you will get in trouble for I don't think.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Santa came early!
> 
> I just received Glenn's parcel and I am tempted to open it now before Christmas.
> 
> It's a tough decision..............


 
   
  All things considered, the time zone you're in among them, _do it..........do it now!_


----------



## john57

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> There are many place online print them as metalized stickers.
> I used my friend's computer did this. He is in school for boat design. But he just left to country today for a month. The only copy is this one. Is it going to work?


 
  It is small at 15K JPG file size as displayed on the Web. Which may be fine for metal foil priinting. Just check on your file size you have and if it is bigger just attached it to a PM.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> Thanks Seamaster I think it looks great!! Were can I have some of these made?




Well done Seamaster! When can we order the T-shirts? (and amps!)


----------



## rosgr63

The box is under the tree, I can feel the big Russian inside.
   
  My cat is contemplating to open the box, but I am strong resisting.
   
  Will it last another day?
   
  Glenn why are you leading me to such a temptation, you know I am not worthy.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> The box is under the tree, I can feel the big Russian inside.
> 
> My cat is contemplating to open the box, but I am strong resisting.
> 
> ...


 

 Look into my eyes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Your eyelids are getting heavy.
  You are slowly falling into a deep state of unconsciousness.
   
  Listen to me carefully:
  It is the morning of December 25th.
  It is Christmas morning.
_*Dec. 25.*_
_*Dec. 25.*_
   
  Now WAKE UP! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 AND OPEN THAT BOX FROM GLENN.
  (Have fun!)


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> The box is under the tree, I can feel the big Russian inside.
> 
> My cat is contemplating to open the box, but I am strong resisting.
> 
> ...


 

 I should have put some catnip in the box it would have been opened by now and he wouldn't have to feel guilty.


----------



## Xcalibur255

lol....... guilt shifting at its finest right there.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> The box is under the tree, I can feel the big Russian inside.
> 
> My cat is contemplating to open the box, but I am strong resisting.
> 
> ...


 
   
  No worries about the date! Just swap out your Gregorian Calendar for another...


----------



## wotts

I say open it. I'll even shoulder the blame!


----------



## Silent One

Either way, he's just about out of time...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I should have put some catnip in the box it would have been opened by now and he wouldn't have to feel guilty.


 
  I'll be right over......He won't miss it until Christmas anyway...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Look into my eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  ROFLMAO!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Not just the big Russian but also the adapters for the 596 are in there!
  Now Pablo my niece's French Bulldog wants to have a go at the box, I had to sleep under the tree to make sure it's safe!
  It's a fight between a cat, a dog and me the gallant defender.
   
  Thanks for the support, you're such a "terrible" bunch!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Not just the big Russian_* but also the adapters for the 596 are in there!*_
> Now Pablo my niece's French Bulldog wants to have a go at the box, I had to sleep under the tree to make sure it's safe!
> It's a fight between a cat, a dog and me the gallant defender.
> 
> Thanks for the support, you're such a "terrible" bunch!


 
   
Excuse moi???!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

What are friends for?


----------



## rosgr63

Who's going to help me guard the box?
   
  Any volunteers?


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I should have put some catnip in the box it would have been opened by now and he wouldn't have to feel guilty.


 

 +1 i totally agree..some catnip would certainly have done the trick


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn what settings do I use with my tester to test the Big Russian and the 596?
   
  Do I test them as 5V4's or 3DG4's?


----------



## john57

I would think that the 596 would be easy to test like a 5V4. The big Russian tube I would not try due to large heater requirements but I have a secondary tester that could possibility test them. However it has been my experience that rectifier tubes either work or don't and the readings on a test tester do not have much validity in my experience. I just make sure that there is no shorts. I also wanted to add that testers will usually not tell me which rectifier tubes are going to arc over in a circuit. I had 3DG4 that had alot of carbon in the tube but still work.


----------



## rosgr63

There is an interesting article by Bob Putnak that explains rectifier testing:
   
http://tubesound.com/2010/08/25/testing-a-balanced-rectifier-on-a-tube-tester/


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn what settings do I use with my tester to test the Big Russian and the 596?
> 
> Do I test them as 5V4's or 3DG4's?


 
  OK to test the 596 use the adapter and test it as a 5U4 it is really a 5U4GB with the anode/plate connections brought to the top of the tube so it could
  handle higher voltage that would arc over in the base.
     The 5U8C use the adapter and you can test it as a 5V4 or GZ34 or GZ37 as it has a cathode and is not direct heated like a 5U4. Just be sure the tester can handle
  a tube that draws 5 amps filament current.
      The article by Bob Putnak applies to the 5U4/596 not the 5U8C the two sections of the 5U8 will read even if the tube is good and balanced.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Glenn.


----------



## Silent One

I have a source on the East coast for USAF-596 recs. After being sold out for months, he just acquired 20 earlier today. New, in original boxes - 1954 batch. $90 for singles; discount with 3; bigger discount with more than that...


----------



## wotts

Oooooo...


----------



## Silent One

I'm gonna at least get one for the display case...slick & glossy!


----------



## rosgr63

They look fantastic!


----------



## wotts

I might have to put another display case up for tubes. I bought one from IKEA earlier this year. Works well for what I have in it now.


----------



## rosgr63

Tubes are to be loved and caressed not to be displayed!


----------



## Silent One

This is true. However, I have both acquired a few beautiful tubes that I cannot use (yet) and have an extra few samples - take _The Mighty 596_ as an example - where extras are just stuffed in the sock drawer. This is a sin considering the sheer beauty of some this Glass.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I might have to put another display case up for tubes. I bought one from IKEA earlier this year. Works well for what I have in it now.


 
   
Can you please post a pix later on, so I could see what you're working with over there? Thanks.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Can you please post a pix later on, so I could see what you're working with over there? Thanks.


 
   
   
  Sure thing! I'll do that when I get home.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I have a source on the East coast for USAF-596 recs. After being sold out for months, he just acquired 20 earlier today. New, in original boxes - 1954 batch. $90 for singles; discount with 3; bigger discount with more than that...


 

   
  Any take on this 1641 / RK60 tube?
   
  How about this hammer head ( I call it ) 274A. Too bad it arrived DOD.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice!
   
  Do you mean DOA?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Very nice!
> 
> Do you mean DOA?


 
  Yes. Too bad I can't test it out. I wonder someone can repair it.....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
I'm almost certain Clayton SF has used the RK-60 in his Woo. I believe Glenn may have run one or two as well. Have not heard one myself.
   
  http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_1641.html
   
   
That 'Hammerhead' looks fantastique!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm almost certain Clayton SF has used the RK-60 in his Woo. I believe Glenn may have run one or two as well. Have not heard one myself.
> 
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_1641.html
> 
> ...


 
   
  I used the 1641 / RK60 in the first amp the amp even had a 4 pin socket and I brought the high voltage leads out of the top of the transformer.This way there was no
  high voltage AC under the chassis to induce hum. but after a couple months of use it arced over so I put in a new one and after awhile that one arced over. So I
  couldn't have this so I switched to the 3DG4.
     And yes Clayton should have one with adapter.
    My present amp uses the 5U8C with that crazy Russian socket so there is no other tube that will fit other then the 5U9C.
  I do have a national 5V3 that looks the same as that 274A except it has a black plastic octal base.


----------



## Clayton SF

EDIT: These photos are from August of 2012 2010 when I got the adapters from Glenn. It's a little cockeyed but it certainly adds character to my WA22. It looks like it is checking out the stuffed rabbit in the background. I like the sound of the RK60 and the 6F8G / VT-99 Raytheons.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


>


 
   
  now that's impressive!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
Impressive indeed! I really like the way he "maps" the room with both ground level shots and aerial views.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> These photos are from August of 2012 when I got the adapters from Glenn. It's a little cockeyed but it certainly adds character to my WA22. It looks like it is checking out the stuffed rabbit in the background. I like the sound of the RK60 and the 6F8G / VT-99 Raytheons.


 
  I think it was further back then August 2012 maybe 2011 or 2010


----------



## Silent One

My guess is Autumn 2011: 





   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/14100


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I think it was further back then August 2012 maybe 2011 or 2010


 
   
  Typo! You're right. I meant to type August 2010.


----------



## Silent One

The looks of that "Hammer head" Glass is growing on me...


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> EDIT: These photos are from August of 2012 2010 when I got the adapters from Glenn. It's a little cockeyed but it certainly adds character to my WA22. It looks like it is checking out the stuffed rabbit in the background. I like the sound of the RIK60 and the 6F8G / VT-99 Athens.


 
   
*Clayton*, Have not talk to you for long time, I thought you went to UK. That are quite collection of great gears! I am still in love with 6F8G too.
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I used the 1641 / RIK60 in the first amp the amp even had a 4 pin socket and I brought the high voltage leads out of the top of the transformer.This way there was no
> high voltage AC under the chassis to induce hum. but after a couple months of use it arced over so I put in a new one and after awhile that one arced over. So I
> couldn't have this so I switched to the 3DAG4.
> And yes Clayton should have one with adapter.
> ...


 
  I actually got the 1641 / RIK60 tube long time ago when I was rolling my WA22. Glenn was the one first confirmed it was doable on WA22. Glenn did not  know there is a place called head-fi at the time, ha ha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I got him fixed really quick
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  But I never ordered adapter to try it.  Too bad I have not gotten chance to try it myself, shame on me. My life has been crazy for past 3 years. That is why I disappeared from head-fi for 3 year. I am from bachelor to have one wife, one 5 year old daugthter, and one 3 month old son in a blink of eye!!
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> The looks of that "Hammer head" Glass is growing on me...


 
  They are beautiful to look at. I will have to find an another one.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> *Clayton*, Have not talk to you for long time, I thought you went to UK. That are quite collection of great gears! I am still in love with 6F8G too.


 
  I actually went to Holland (as I do every year) and met up with Ultrainferno. I brought over my WA2 for him to borrow for a year. He is the best and we enjoyed great Belgian beers together in Amsterdam.
   
  It was shipsupt that moved to UK. He's doing well in a 220V environment. He's got more room at his new home in the UK.
   
  By the way, @Seamaster, it was your black WA22 with a crystal (and later humongous heat sinks) perched on top of the transformer box that made me order my WA22.
   
  This is the photo of your Black WA22 in 2009 that introduced me to Glenn's adapter for the 6F8G. And that's when I started ordering from Glenn. In 2009.


----------



## hifimanrookie

clayton sf said:


> I actually went to Holland (as I do every year) and met up with Ultrainferno. I brought over my WA2 for him to borrow for a year. He is the best and we enjoyed great Belgian beers together in Amsterdam.




Only belgian beer? In amsterdam we have all sorts of beer.. amsterdam is a cool town to visit


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My life has been crazy for past 3 years. That is why I disappeared from head-fi for 3 year. I am from bachelor to have one wife, one 5 year old daugthter, and one 3 month old son in a blink of eye!!
> They are beautiful to look at. I will have to find an another one.


 
   
   
  Congratulations my friend.
  Family comes first, plenty time to catch up with your hobby.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> By the way, @Seamaster, it was your black WA22 with a crystal (and later humongous heat sinks) perched on top of the transformer box that made me order my WA22.
> 
> This is the photo of your Black WA22 in 2009 that introduced me to Glenn's adapter for the 6F8G. And that's when I started ordering from Glenn. In 2009.


 
   
  Nice to track the source of the crime!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Always loved the look of the black WA22....


----------



## Silent One

I'd take the entire line in Black! Triple Black, perhaps? I'd name my Black WA5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 "Baby sinister!" Of course, I'd likely give my next ALL Black Glenn-amp the same designation.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Only belgian beer? In amsterdam we have all sorts of beer..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



  
 We went to a tavern called In de Wildeman and I was introduced to Belgian beer because Ultrainferno is from there. We also had and St. Chimay and St. Bernardus.
  
 Then I went with an American friend to Vongelpark and we had Wieckse Witte whith a lemon in it and it was excellent for a mid-day hot August afternoon. Then we went back to In de Wildeman and more of which I can't remember.
  
 We found great beer and music south of Amsterdam in Leiden at De Twee Spieghels.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'd take the entire line in Black! Triple Black, perhaps? I'd name my Black WA5
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Awesome!  Black with a Red Logo like flames!


----------



## hifimanrookie

clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Am impressed..u saw lots of amsterdam already  ps..its vondelpark..not vongelpark  and wieckse witte is a very nice beer!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> ps..its vondelpark..not vongelpark
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Oops


----------



## longbowbbs

Man I am hungry in one thread and now thirsty in another......
   
  Must be the holidays.


----------



## hifimanrookie

longbowbbs said:


> Man I am hungry in one thread and now thirsty in another......
> 
> Must be the holidays.



What ru talking about..ur always hungry


----------



## longbowbbs

Some days it seems that way...


----------



## rosgr63

Makes two of us!


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm always snacking, too.
  I had to defrost these on my Leben CS600.
  Before you chastise me for having these unhealthy snacks let me explain:
  My sister sent them to me from Hawaii. Still frozen in their boxes when packed; they arrived yesterday still very cold. Hence the thaw.
  The expiration date is December 2012. Not much time!
  Apparently someone in her family hoarded them and she had to unload them on me.
  So I guess I'll have to donate them to the guys and gals I work with who have children that still like them.
  Or secretly eat some myself when no one is watching.


----------



## longbowbbs

Expiration date....for Twinkies??!!  They will be OK until the next ice age!


----------



## hifimanrookie

clayton sf said:


> I'm always snacking, too.
> I had to defrost these on my Leben CS600.
> Before you chastise me for having these unhealthy snacks let me explain:
> My sister sent them to me from Hawaii. Still frozen in their boxes when packed; they arrived yesterday still very cold. Hence the thaw.
> ...



I knew hot headed amps were good for not only driving loidpeakers or headphones


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'd leave the flames to the custom auto body shop! And I'd have no trace elements of any other colour..._yup, that sinister..._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'm always snacking, too.
> I had to defrost these on my Leben CS600.
> Before you chastise me for having these unhealthy snacks let me explain:
> My sister sent them to me from Hawaii. Still frozen in their boxes when packed; they arrived yesterday still very cold. Hence the thaw.
> ...


 
   
  Never thought I'd see the day
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 the Hostess Twinkie production line shut down. I'm guessing you have the Beyer's connected to the OTL, no?


----------



## longbowbbs

Keep your chair at the event horizon of the audio black hole!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Never thought I'd see the day
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  My favorite Raspberry Coconut Zingers were not included in my sister's shipment!
   
  I have the HD650s connected to the OTL.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I should have clicked to "zoom" in on the pix, as I was trying to judge by the cord.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So I guess I'll have to donate them to the guys and gals I work with who have children that still like them.
> Or secretly eat some myself when no one is watching.


 
   
   
  Can do both, and share some with us too!


----------



## Silent One

You know, rosgr63, that pix Clayton posted with the snack stack really does speak to me! Anytime I have an overnight session that ends with breakfast just after sunrise, leaves me thinking of snacks between then and midnight. I tell you, it's tough, no matter how good the music sounds!
   
  Sometimes, my stomach starts panging & pinging like a '5998' tube warming up.


----------



## rosgr63

I don't need an excuse SO.
   
  Currently testing a short and a tall bottle 6SN7W I got last week.
   
  I still prefer the short bottle.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> We went to a tavern called In de Wildeman and I was introduced to Belgian beer because Ultrainferno is from there. We also had and St. Chimay and St. Bernardus.
> 
> ...


 
   
  In de Wildeman is a great place!  Did he take you to t' Arendsendt?  Oh man, words fail me.  Only Dutch beer.  Who knew there are something like 200 brewers in Holland?  I want to go back so bad...


----------



## rosgr63

There's more to Holland than beer!
   
  Next door is Ultrainferno & the 596's!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> There's more to Holland than beer!
> 
> Next door is Ultrainferno & the 596's!


 
   
  Yes!


----------



## longbowbbs

No pictures of Chocolate?


----------



## Clayton SF

Okay. These are pictures of Amsterdam sweet shops in December


----------



## longbowbbs

Thank You!.....Someone day I'll have to get to the Netherlands/Belgium and other parts of Mainland Europe....


----------



## hifimanrookie

clayton sf said:


> Yes!



I knew someone would come up with febo..lolz..stand up eating..but sooo yummy..especially the kalfsvlees kroket with some mosterd 
But guys..holland has much more then food and beer and chcolate to show..


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> But guys..holland has much more then food and beer and chcolate to show..


 
   
  Absolutely, and it's nothing like the complete mess that is called Belgium.
   
  The Belgians do know a thing or two about brewing beer, though.


----------



## Clayton SF

Like concerts at Paradiso.
The Rijksmuseum, which is opening up in 2013.
HiFi Solutions, I just window shop.
Record Friend, a great store.
  But I buy most of my vinyl in Leiden at Velvet Music.
  And you must go to get used vinyl at The Velvet Vinyl Outlet. Incredible prices.
  (If an album has 3 records in it it counts as one. At least it did with the classical records.)
       RECORD COST 2.50 EURO PER PIECE
       AND AT MORE THAN 20 PIECES 2 euro each


----------



## hifimanrookie

clayton sf said:


> Like concerts at Paradiso.
> The Rijksmuseum, which is opening up in 2013.
> HiFi Solutions, I just window shop.
> Record Friend, a great store.
> ...



Wow..ur wellinformed  am impressed


----------



## Ultrainferno

oskari said:


> Absolutely, and it's nothing like the complete mess that is called Belgium.
> 
> The Belgians do know a thing or two about brewing beer, though.




Hey watch it mister!


----------



## hifimanrookie

ultrainferno said:


> Hey watch it mister!


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Hey watch it mister!


 
   
  Well, OK, the political mess that is called Belgium. Still love the beer. (Having an Orval as it is.)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Wow..ur wellinformed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks; and
  Your country is incredibly diverse and beautiful!
  Look at this vinyl selection at the vinyl outlet.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Hey watch it mister!


 
  Are you still up at this hour?


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Are you still up at this hour?




I am in bed with the nano you gifted me, the CLAS, the C421 and the DT770 AE watching Nat Geo at the same time (egypt), not tired yet. Waiting for new interesting posts, but nothing yet so far


----------



## hifimanrookie

clayton sf said:


> Thanks; and
> Your country is incredibly diverse and beautiful!
> Look at this vinyl selection at the vinyl outlet.:eek:


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I am in bed with the nano you gifted me, the CLAS, the C421 and the DT770 AE watching Nat Geo at the same time (egypt), not tired yet. Waiting for new interesting posts, but nothing yet so far


 
   
  Wow. I'm watching a special on Egypt as well. The Nile and all and Moses and the Great Flood.
   
  Ah, the DT770 AE. Excellent!


----------



## Xcalibur255

You guys are bad.  I'm trying not to eat junk food this year, and all these pictures show up in here.
   
  I need cheesecake now.  Right now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Double-Wow!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You guys are bad.  I'm trying not to eat junk food this year, and all these pictures show up in here.
> 
> I need cheesecake now.  Right now.


 
   
  So, in a good 7 days you're set!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You guys are bad.  I'm trying not to eat junk food this year, and all these pictures show up in here.
> 
> I need cheesecake now.  Right now.


 
   
  Order up!


----------



## Clayton SF

The interior of HiFi Solutions, I just window-shop and drop. Look at their vintage tube radios and tape equipment!


----------



## longbowbbs

I think we would all spend a whole day playing around in there!


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I think we would all spend a whole day playing around in there!


 

 yep we dutch have all the nice stuff


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> yep we dutch have all the nice stuff


 
  After all, the Dutch did discover Manhattan Island (New Amsterdam) and are responsible for influencing the American English Language in more than a subtle way. Every time I look up an American English word, most of the time it says: from the Dutch.


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> After all, the Dutch did discover Manhattan Island (New Amsterdam) and are responsible for influencing the American English Language in more than a subtle way. Every time I look up an American English word, most of the time it says: from the Dutch.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


>


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


>


 

 we maybe can get one good dutchman out of u anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as u clearly are a bit infected with the dutch virus


----------



## longbowbbs

_*Proost!*_


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> we maybe can get one good dutchman out of u anyway
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It is so sad here in San Francisco. They have language courses from every country on this planet and Mars as well but I can't, for the life of me, find any Dutch instructional courses. I think that the Dutch language is the most expressive I've ever heard, even though I I don't understand it. Like gezellig and others. I went to a dinner with 5 Dutch speaking people (the nicest ever) to a defunct restaurant and they knew I didn't understand a word of Dutch but they spoke it for the entire meal and every 5 minutes or so they would apologize and say to me. "We've got to catch up on gossip and English will not be spoken now. Too much to catch up on. But I'll give you a synopsis every so often." It was such a great experience. They served this sorbet or ice cream with a side of some alcoholic concoction. So I poured it over the ice cream and they said. "No! That's not how you do it. You eat the ice cream and then shoot the liquor next. What in the world was that? Whatever it was I loved it.
   
  By the way, one of my favorite restaurants is Eet Café de Fles.
   
  Eddie, a friend of mine, who owns a "junk/lamp" shop on Runstraat and Prinsengraght had never carried any vacuum tubes but surely as the day is bright has carried everything else under the sun.


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> _*Proost!*_


 

 hey u..trying to get into the fun party huh? go get ur catnips


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It is so sad here in San Francisco. They have language courses from every country on this planet and Mars as well but I can't, for the life of me, find any Dutch instructional courses. I think that the Dutch language is the most expressive I've ever heard, even though I I don't understand it. Like gezellig and others. I went to a dinner with 5 Dutch speaking people (the nicest ever) to a defunct restaurant and they knew I didn't understand a word of Dutch but they spoke it for the entire meal and every 5 minutes or so they would apologize and say to me. "We've got to catch up on gossip and English will not be spoken now. Too much to catch up on. But I'll give you a synopsis every so often." It was such a great experience. They served this sorbet or ice cream with a side of some alcoholic concoction. So I poured it over the ice cream and they said. "No! That's not how you do it. You eat the ice cream and then shoot the liquor next. What in the world was that? Whatever it was I loved it.
> 
> By the way, one of my favorite restaurants is Eet Café de Fles.
> 
> Eddie, a friend of mine, who owns a "junk/lamp" shop on Runstraat and Prinsengraght had never carried any vacuum tubes but surely as the day is bright has carried everything else under the sun.


 
  http://www.rosettastone.com/lp/tosub6/?pc=tsbhol8&cid=se-gg-5paybr-tosub6&mkwid=sAR8oclsY&pcrid=18828333375&pmt=e&pkw=rosetta%20stone&gclid=CObNgNqPsrQCFYVFMgodGiQAXw


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> hey u..trying to get into the fun party huh? go get ur catnips


 
   
  Catnip in ANY language would taste as sweet


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It is so sad here in San Francisco. They have language courses from every country on this planet and Mars as well but I can't, for the life of me, find any Dutch instructional courses. I think that the Dutch language is the most expressive I've ever heard, even though I I don't understand it. Like gezellig and others. I went to a dinner with 5 Dutch speaking people (the nicest ever) to a defunct restaurant and they knew I didn't understand a word of Dutch but they spoke it for the entire meal and every 5 minutes or so they would apologize and say to me. "We've got to catch up on gossip and English will not be spoken now. Too much to catch up on. But I'll give you a synopsis every so often." It was such a great experience. They served this sorbet or ice cream with a side of some alcoholic concoction. So I poured it over the ice cream and they said. "No! That's not how you do it. You eat the ice cream and then shoot the liquor next. What in the world was that? Whatever it was I loved it.
> 
> By the way, one of my favorite restaurants is Eet Café de Fles.
> 
> Eddie, a friend of mine, who owns a "junk/lamp" shop on Runstraat and Prinsengraght had never carried any vacuum tubes but surely as the day is bright has carried everything else under the sun.


 

 damn..am even more impressed now of ur knowledge of amsterdam Clayton!..u must love it very much! well..its rijnstraat (where u also have the RAF audio store for ur higher end audio needs..did u visit it already? they made a restart this year..) and its prinsengracht (where lots of lawyers reside.lolz) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and the good part of amsterdam is that almost everyone speaks english as well..for ur knowledge..in the dutch language u have influences of many languages..that makes it so difficult AND HARD to learn.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Catnip in ANY language would taste as sweet


 
  I agree: Yum yum. Mumumumumum. Numnumnumnum. Lekker lekker!


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Catnip in ANY language would taste as sweet


 

 then u will be double ur size very soon..as in amsterdam u have a enormous mix of  people all around the world with all their languages and cultures living together in almost hamony (well sort of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)in one city...so ur tummy will be growing very quickly


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> http://www.rosettastone.com/lp/tosub6/?pc=tsbhol8&cid=se-gg-5paybr-tosub6&mkwid=sAR8oclsY&pcrid=18828333375&pmt=e&pkw=rosetta%20stone&gclid=CObNgNqPsrQCFYVFMgodGiQAXw


 
  Thank you. I appreciate that.


----------



## longbowbbs

Good program. Se Habla Espanol?


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Good program. Se Habla Espanol?


 

 mi hable portugues, english, deutsch, nederlands e um peu de francais.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 we dutchpeople are multi languali 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  and yeah..i know..its 5:11 am here..some of us dont sleep a lot also


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> mi hable portugues, english, deutsch, nederlands e um peu de francais.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nao. Eu falo Portugues muito pequenos. Eu visitei Rio de Janeiro há muito tempo e eu cresci acima com português - povos faladores. Isso está em Havaí. Sorry. My last Portuguese lesson was years ago--before I fell in love with the Netherlands.
   
  And when I was in Amsterdam there seemed to be a lot of Brasileros there. Especially in Leidseplein. Capoeiraistas.
   
  Have a god morning!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes!


 
   
   
  Can't be a sign of delicious food................
   
  I much prefer corner shops where food is served by a human not a vending machine.


----------



## rosgr63

Currently testing a B65 on Glenn's amp.
  Sounds good.
   
   
  Not long now for the 596 and 5U8C.
   
  Meantime I am content eating some cookies.
  With this rate there won't be many left for tomorrow...........


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Currently testing a B65 on Glenn's amp.
> Sounds good.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What do you mean eating cookies before Christmas. That is worse then opening the box.
  I have to let you know rosgr63 my breakfast was Christmas Cookies so I am already over my limit for the day.


----------



## longbowbbs

mmmPPhhhh..Burp......
   
  Cookies?


----------



## rosgr63

Sorry Glenn, I am getting good, only had 5 today.
   
  So far that is.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Can't be a sign of delicious food................
> I much prefer corner shops where food is served by a human not a vending machine.


 
  There are actually worse corner shops where you are served by humans. There are humans working at FEBO--in the back. And you can see them working behind the vending slots so you know when something's just made as soon as they slip it in its slot. Besides, it is quicker and no lines, unless you order from the back where you can get milk shakes, french fries, freshly fried chicken (very good) pops/sodas and converse if you need to. I do like the food as a quick snack and it's not bad.
   
  But I do understand the automated turnoff.


----------



## hifimanrookie

clayton sf said:


> There are actually worse corner shops where you are served by humans. There are humans working at FEBO--in the back. And you can see them working behind the vending slots so you know when something's just made as soon as they slip it in its slot. Besides, it is quicker and no lines, unless you order from the back where you can get milk shakes, french fries, freshly fried chicken (very good) pops/sodas and converse if you need to. I do like the food as a quick snack and it's not bad.
> 
> But I do understand the automated turnoff.



Yummy..guys and girls...for later merry christmas to u all!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Sorry Glenn, I am getting good, only had 5 today.
> 
> So far that is.


 
  I don't know how many cookies I ate today lost count
   Lucy made over 100 cookies of all different types


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I don't know how many cookies I ate today lost count
> Lucy made over 100 cookies of all different types


 

 Ultrainferno and his gf sent me chocolates and drop treats from Belgium. My sister sent me a truck load of Hostess treats from Hawaii. I'm eating them between proper meals. 
   
  I'm leaving some out for Santa this evening to see if he brings me some tubes from the North Pole.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I don't know how many cookies I ate today lost count
> Lucy made over 100 cookies of all different types


 
  We'll all be right over!


----------



## hifimanrookie

longbowbbs said:


> We'll all be right over!



Yep..count me in..


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I don't know how many cookies I ate today lost count
> Lucy made over 100 cookies of all different types


 
   
   
  I can guess which ones you are guarding so nobody gets near........................
   
  I got news for you I am getting a lift of Santa tonight and the raspberry cookies will be gone before you wake up!
   
   
  Merry Christmas to all!


----------



## hifimanrookie

rosgr63 said:


> I can guess which ones you are guarding so nobody gets near........................
> 
> I got news for you I am getting a lift of Santa tonight and the raspberry cookies will be gone before you wake up!
> 
> ...



Can u drop a few into my chimney on ur way home? ?


----------



## longbowbbs

C





hifimanrookie said:


> Can u drop a few into my chimney on ur way home? ?




Cookies, not tubes..


----------



## 2359glenn

I guess I have to take my cookies to bed tonight.
   
  there is a person on this forum that got cookies and tubes for Christmas.


----------



## hifimanrookie

longbowbbs said:


> C
> Cookies, not tubes..



Damn u got me


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ultrainferno and his gf sent me chocolates and drop treats from Belgium. My sister sent me a truck load of Hostess treats from Hawaii. I'm eating them between proper meals.
> 
> I'm leaving some out for Santa this evening to see if he brings me some tubes from the North Pole.


 

 What are these "proper meals" of which you speak?  You mean something is supposed to go _with_  the twinkies and the cookies?  Pshaw.


----------



## Clayton SF

A special Christmas Greeting to Glenn!
  And Merry Christmas to all--
  Our camaraderie is fierce be it over food, drink, or what-have-yous in general and,
  oh yes, amps and tubes and adapters and such..!
   
_*Glenn's X-MAS OTL SE*_ running:
_*5URC*_ool Jester Rectifier
  2 perfectly matched _*Ferrero Rocher Globes*_; and
_*6SM7*_ (Snowman Edition)


----------



## longbowbbs

^^
   
  Clayton that is awesome!  I would be concerned about the melting temp of the Ferrero Roche's!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> ^^
> Clayton that is awesome!  I would be concerned about the melting temp of the Ferrero Roche's!


 
  Not to worry. I checked their bottoms to make sure that there was no chocolate on them and the photo shoot lasted 2 minutes and those matching FRs were _*rolled*_ (pun intended) quickly off that amp and right into my mouth


----------



## 2359glenn

Those are funny looking tubes how did they sound/taste


----------



## 2359glenn

Merry Christmas to all and your loved ones
    Glenn


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Those are funny looking tubes how did they sound/taste


 
   
  They have a wonderful midrange with an incredible high-end sparkle. They warm up in just a few seconds with a smooth liquidy response. Yummy!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Ferrero's are known for being extra smoooooth....


----------



## hifimanrookie

clayton sf said:


> A special Christmas Greeti
> I love thang to Glenn!
> And Merry Christmas to all--
> Our camaraderie is fierce be it over food, drink, or what-have-yous in general and,
> ...



I love this pic! Very yummy and all christmas spirit all over it..or was it eating spirit?


----------



## hifimanrookie

longbowbbs said:


> Ferrero's are known for being extra smoooooth....



Smooth sounding or smooth tasting?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Smooth sounding or smooth tasting?


 
  Never actually put on in my ear??!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn's influence on the amp world transcends exclusivity to any one system.
  The Woo Audio 22 joins the Holiday Festivities by supercharging its rectifier with Glenn's adapter.
   
  (Alright, I'm having fun, and so is Mr. Rectifier Snow Man! After all, it is Christmas even in SF.)


----------



## longbowbbs

^^
Does Santa glow in the dark like the other tubes?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Merry Christmas to all and your loved ones
> Glenn


 
   
  Same to you, Glenn. As well as your loved ones and our fellow members around 2359glenn|studio and Head-Fi.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Glenn's influence on the amp world transcends exclusivity to any one system.
> The Woo Audio 22 joins the Holiday Festivities by supercharging its rectifier with Glenn's adapter.
> 
> (Alright, I'm having fun, and so is Mr. Rectifier Snow Man! After all, it is Christmas even in SF.)


 
   
  Look at Jolly Fat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 rock out!


----------



## hifimanrookie

longbowbbs said:


> Never actually put on in my ear??!!



 how it sounds being crushed between ur teeth!.lolz can imagine u actually tried to put it in ur ears..u would be crazy enough.


----------



## hifimanrookie

silent one said:


> Look at Jolly Fat :tongue_smile:  rock out!



That pic with that golden glow..perfect! Hope ur first chrismas day is going well with al that food and candy?


----------



## rosgr63

Christmas Cookie Monster is hard at work!
   
  Santa was so sick of me he left me at the Mullard factory instead of Glenn's home..........
   
  Very nice photos Clayton.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn has been very bad indeed.
   
  The most beautiful tube, adapters and tube sweater I have seen.
   
  Now I stopped eating cookies and looking at the tubes..........it's so bad when you are a tube addict.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glens has been very bad indeed.
> 
> The most beautiful tube, adapters and tube sweater I have seen.
> 
> Now I stopped eating cookies and looking at the tubes..........it's so bad when you are a tube addict.


 
  Sweater....OK....As long as it wasn't a Tube Top....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  We need pics Stavros....Quit teasing us!
   
  Merry Christmas my friend!


----------



## rosgr63

Merry Christmas my friend have a wonderful day today.
   
  Too full and too drunk at the minute, trying to recover.


----------



## hifimanrookie

rosgr63 said:


> Merry Christmas my friend have a wonderful day today.
> 
> Too full and too drunk at the minute, trying to recover.



Listening to music helps


----------



## rosgr63

It was the music's fault at the first place............
   
  Glenn, I can smell that lovely ham, watch it I am coming!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I actually went to Holland (as I do every year) and met up with Ultrainferno. I brought over my WA2 for him to borrow for a year. He is the best and we enjoyed great Belgian beers together in Amsterdam.
> 
> It was shipsupt that moved to UK. He's doing well in a 220V environment. He's got more room at his new home in the UK.
> 
> ...


 
  I wish I have job like your, can travel around. Holland is a beautiful place to visit. I had the best hamburger there, home made, it was horse meat too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Only belgian beer? In amsterdam we have all sorts of beer..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Amsterdam is fun, is the red light district still there? I was walking down the street, there was a man jump out of alley: " Hey my friend, I am doctor feel good. make you feel good, Cocaine? Cocaine?" Wow, I just kept walking.
   
  Quote:


longbowbbs said:


> Nice to track the source of the crime!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Guilty as charged. But it was so much fun to roll tubes. Now the amp is gone I end up with full cabinet of tubes.


----------



## hifimanrookie

seamaster said:


> I wish I have job like your, can travel around. Holland is a beautiful place to visit. I had the best hamburger there, home made, it was horse meat too.
> Amsterdam is fun, is the red light district still there? I was walking down the street, there was a man jump out of alley: " Hey my friend, I am doctor feel good. make you feel good, Cocaine? Cocaine?" Wow, I just kept walking.
> 
> Quote:
> Guilty as charged. But it was so much fun to roll tubes. Now the amp is gone I end up with full cabinet of tubes.



Red light is still there..as are the feel good doctors..


----------



## Xcalibur255

Clayton you are the man.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  A very merry Christmas and happy holidays to all my good friends here at Head-fi.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Clayton you are the man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am? What did I do?  Thanks, though.
  Hey, you and y'alls have a great one too.
  I'm ready to start the new year off with saving money. No more spending.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Oh, I just bought the DT770 LE "88" 32 ohm on Ultrainferno's good recommendation.
  It should arrive in a week or so. And that will be my last hifi purchase of 2012.
  Alright then, the penultimate purchase. Something's coming....


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Sweater....OK....As long as it wasn't a Tube Top....


 
   
  Call me old-fashioned, that's not a pretty picture...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Alright then, the penultimate purchase. Something's coming....


 
  Pretty sure I am in the know on what that is.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Pretty sure I am in the know on what that is.


 

 OMG. Are there no secrets nor surprises in Glennhood Forest?


----------



## hifimanrookie

clayton sf said:


> OMG. Are there no secrets nor surprises in Glennhood Forest? :rolleyes:



Well for me this is like 007 secret agant talk..with a message saying..after reading this it'l selfdestruct in 10 seconds..  so yeah..for me its a secret  so pls elaborate bout this surprise.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Well for me this is like 007 secret agant talk..with a message saying..after reading this it'l selfdestruct in 10 seconds..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  He is going SS and getting out of tubes.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  JUST KIDDING!!


----------



## Clayton SF

I got the Downton Abbey CD soundtrack for Christmas. it's a great soundtrack. I haven't seen this series, though.


----------



## hifimanrookie

longbowbbs said:


> He is going SS and getting out of tubes.....
> 
> JUST KIDDING!!



Thank god ur kidding! but For heaven's sake dont mention that again..as the world wont survive such an act


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn makes some great SS amps!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm 'Silent One' so my inside knowledge won't count.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Guilty as charged. But it was so much fun to roll tubes. Now the amp is gone I end up with* full cabinet of tubes.*


 
   
*SALE: Seamaster Season Finale - Everything must go! *


----------



## Silent One

It's a very bad morning for sleeping. Can't do it! Returned home late and though tired, I have been daydreaming about small speakers for the rig all day/evening long. In my current environment, acquiring speakers would be ill-advised. I could probably get away with Janos Starker or Anne Akiko Meyers. But, any material in the music library that was meant to swing and...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 trouble.
   
  Sometimes, I simply tire of listening to cans, instead of sitting in front of the music. Had been looking at powered desktop monitors this month. Earlier today, I decided maybe I'll bring in some vintage Klipsch Heresy II's. However, when I went online, two things happened..._and quickly._ I tripped over a pair of vintage 1976 Klipschorn speakers and began to measure the listening room. It is small - appx 10'x10'. And a lovely pair of these diminutive speakers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 would dramatically shrink the room! I kept measuring the corners anyway...
   
  I have until 2 January to restore wisdom and sanity. Then, in an effort to downsize, a pair of vintage Magnepans caught my eye. The seller inherited them from Pop and knows nothing about audio components. Not really interested in keeping them either. However, the price is attractive because one channel is faulty. I don't know anything about these speakers myself. I'm hesitant to sink my food money into what could be a rabbit hole in disguise. However, the price makes it hard to walk away! Hmmm, and maybe it's a simple fix...at least they have a much slimmer profile and the room would shrink a bit less than with the Klipschorn's. 
   
  It's quite possible once I fall asleep, I could wake up a prudent man. Or simply a man with temporary amnesia and go about my business, making absolutely no audio purchases.


----------



## longbowbbs

Klipschorn's as near field monitors....I love that visual.. I wanna see the desk!  Maggies need mondo power though....Big difference in amping between these brands.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Klipschorn's as near field monitors....I love that visual.. I wanna see the desk!  Maggies need mondo power though....Big difference in amping between these brands.


 
   
  I've got a 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> I've got a 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000.




No problem with the Klipsch's. the Maggie's may want more.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't see a problem or struggle with the Maggie's...may have a problem sitting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 too close!


----------



## longbowbbs

Depending on the model, some Maggies will take all the power you can give them. I was listening to the 3.7's the other day with 1KW Monoblock Brystons....Impressive!


----------



## Silent One

Indeed. But, and I should have made it clear, I'm looking at smaller models and will not pose difficulty, say MMG, 1.7, 1.6...with my vintage beast!


----------



## longbowbbs

Aha! Then all is good. You should have no trouble driving them.


----------



## Silent One

I've a few days left to fantasize about ordering a Glenn-amp with speaker outputs to drive the lovely Klipschorn's...


----------



## longbowbbs

That is a beautiful image.....It would sound great too!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've a few days left to fantasize about ordering a Glenn-amp with speaker outputs to drive the lovely Klipschorn's...


 
  Will that be a 300B amp should be able to drive Klipschorns with 8 watts no problem


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Whoa Nellie!!! Now that I have left fantasy and returned to focused thought in real-time, I need to see if either of the three speakers will be purchased and marched into the listening room. And how much I can raise during a savings campaign.
   
  I've heard the big Corner Horn speakers driven like maniacs by smaller tube outputs, so no question the 8 watts could prove adequate. What I'm really looking forward to learning is if the '45' will have much juice; drive, as I'd like to get one of those dreams out the way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Waiting for listening impressions to emerge from you and Xcalibur255...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Will that be a 300B amp should be able to drive Klipschorns with 8 watts no problem


 

 For some odd reason that sentence resonates with my whole 8-watt state of consciousness.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> For some odd reason that sentence resonates with my whole 8-watt state of consciousness.


Zu-licious.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Zu-licious.


 
  I can see Zu-ppl.


----------



## hifimanrookie

​


clayton sf said:


> I can see Zu-ppl.



Damn i need to get myself a 'glenn' dictionary..as i dont understand a thing u guys are talking about


----------



## rosgr63

Currently testing a black base CBS 5692 and it sounds good.
   
  longbowbbs I thought you were writing a review is it ready yet?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Currently testing a black base CBS 5692 and it sounds good.
> 
> longbowbbs I thought you were writing a review is it ready yet?


 
  Sorry Stavros...A review on which product? We have had 14 relatives over for the holidays and I am losing track of stuff...


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Sorry Stavros...A review on which product? We have had 14 relatives over for the holidays and I am losing track of stuff...


 

 14 relatives or 14 drinks?


----------



## longbowbbs

Relatives....Last ones out tomorrow....Fun, but that is a lot of company.


----------



## rosgr63

The almighty 596 and the new Toxic cable.
   
  Have a great time, the reviews can wait, I am only teasing you!


----------



## longbowbbs

Last one out today....
   
  I am not going to do a full review, but I am really loving the 596 and the Toxic Cables Silver Widows. Best sound I have had so far on the system. I am getting to the point where I need to attend a nice meet and listen to some of the big reputation gear to see if I can discern the differences. I suspect I am approaching the famous law of diminishing returns for my ears.


----------



## rosgr63

I am sure you have reached the golden point, but I bet you won't stop.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am sure you have reached the golden point, but I bet you won't stop.


 
   
  ....??....stop..hmmmm....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Not a chance!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 have you tried the 5U8C yet


----------



## rosgr63

Not yet I was testing some 6SN7/6AS7 so never got round it, but I will over the weekend.


----------



## Silent One

*Fontella Bass - R.I.P.*
   
  The Soul singer passed away and I can't wait to fire up the rig tonight in her memory. I absolutely love her song "Rescue Me"....what a voice!


----------



## longbowbbs

I'll have to check out Youtube for her....


----------



## Silent One

My '5998' OTL amp got a new playmate last night - Music Hall mmf-7.


----------



## longbowbbs

Lucille!


----------



## Skylab

That's a very nice looking TT, SO!


----------



## Silent One

Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Although, I don't smoke...can't stand smoke..._ain't never tried smokin'_........I love the way B.B. is bumpin' the cigarette in that pix...holding Lucille! Also, that white spec in the lower right of the photograph isn't lint, rather a reflection from the underside of the cart.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice SO, waiting for your feedback.


----------



## 2359glenn

SO what are you using for a phono preamp?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> SO what are you using for a phono preamp?


 
   
  My 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000. First receiver to offer both MC & MM Phono Stages. A few months ago you were going to post a pix of your own tube phono preamp or preamp, I believe. I think you mentioned it was DHT also...




   
  ...and you just know I know someone who might be interested in such a thing.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's a very nice looking TT, SO!


 
   
  Thanks. Of course, in true fashion, I have a record clamp but didn't want to obscure
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the picture!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks. Of course, in true fashion, I have a record clamp but didn't want to obscure
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Have you tried it with the record clamp to hear if it makes a difference?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000. First receiver to offer both MC & MM Phono Stages. A few months ago you were going to post a pix of your own tube phono preamp or preamp, I believe. I think you mentioned it was DHT also...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I will I just have to take it out of my rack  and dust it off it tends to be a dust magnet.  The MC & MM phono stage is SS tubes are to noisy to use in a MC stage
  The main preamp stage is a #26 direct heated triode.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for asking. But the TT needs a new belt. And one of the cartridge leads needs to be re-soldered. I shot it just to get pix up on the forum.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  As I slowly assemble this analog rig, I'm thinking I might want some of that '26' candy out of the Studio...or whatever else you can dream of for me to have a Phono stage.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for asking. But the TT needs a new belt. And one of the cartridge leads needs to be re-soldered. I shot it just to get pix up on the forum.


 
  How often does one need to replace a belt? (Hours approx.) I've had mine for 2 years and have played it an average of 5 hours a week. Some weeks more; some weeks less. It sounds great now. Perhaps, like batteries, I should replace it once a year regardless. Who knows about the environment, et al.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry, I don't know the recommended interval at this writing. This particular belt broke previously, so I knew going into the deal I would need a new one.


----------



## dminches

Belts can last for years assuming the TT operates in a normal environment.


----------



## Silent One

This table is about 10 years old. I'd have replaced the belt anyway, at $35........._why not?_ Still, it would have been exciting to hear it fresh from the trunk of my ride and into the listening room!


----------



## Clayton SF

I can pick up warped, warbled, incongruent sound like a dog can pick up a bone. And my TT's belt is still in tip-top condition. Trust your ears. That's what you're using in this hobby anyway.


----------



## longbowbbs

My last belt lasted nearly 10 years. The table failed first!


----------



## Clayton SF




----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I can pick up warped, warbled, incongruent sound like a dog can pick up a bone. And my TT's belt is still in tip-top condition. Trust your ears. That's what you're using in this hobby anyway.


 
   
  This is great to hear. And unlike some on Head-Fi, I do trust my ears and judgement. Except...the belt
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is broke. I would have replaced it anyway simply to start anew, not due to need or requirement. And log my own hours.


----------



## rosgr63

Unless you have a DD TT and forget belts altogether.


----------



## Silent One

Yeah, we gots two of those...


----------



## dminches

Glenn is a master.  He just made me a pair of 6CG7>6F8G adapters for my Van Alstine DAC.


----------



## Skylab

That is way, way, way cool.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Glenn is a master.  He just made me a pair of 6CG7>6F8G adapters for my Van Alstine DAC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That looks excellent Dave!  Very nice. How is the sound vs your stock tubes?


----------



## dminches

I haven't used stock tubes since I first got the DAC.  I have been using 6SN7 TS BGRPs with a 6CG7>6SN7 adapter.  I'll let you know how the 6F8Gs sound compared to the 6SN7s once I get to know the sound.


----------



## 2359glenn

I am glad to see that the cover fit on with those big 6F8Gs in there
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> Glenn is a master.  He just made me a pair of 6CG7>6F8G adapters for my Van Alstine DAC.


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy New Year every body It has already happened in Europe and Ashia


----------



## hifimanrookie

2359glenn said:


> Happy New Year every body It has already happened in Europe and Ashia



Happy new year glenn..here in amsterdam it just turned 2013 half an hour ago


----------



## dminches

Here's to a happy and healthy new year for everyone.


----------



## Clayton SF

Happy New Year to all who are celebrating 2013 now.
  SF has another 8 hours to go.
   
  It's a wet one in Amsterdam.


----------



## longbowbbs

Happy New Year to all my friends here in 2359Glenn land!


----------



## hifimanrookie

clayton sf said:


> Happy New Year to all who are celebrating 2013 now.
> SF has another 8 hours to go.
> 
> It's a wet one in Amsterdam.



Yes, this year its bad for fireworks here in amsterdam :mad: .but the feeling stays..happy new year u all..


----------



## Ultrainferno

Happy NY everyone, It's 1 am and I'm in bed already. Gonna get up early to listen to the WA2 and 339. How's that for a NY celebration?


----------



## hifimanrookie

ultrainferno said:


> Happy NY everyone, It's 1 am and I'm in bed already. Gonna get up early to listen to the WA2 and 339. How's that for a NY celebration?



Well.for me no bed for at least 5 more hours..party!!!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Well.for me no bed for at least 5 more hours..party!!!!!!!!


 
   
  The Dutch really know how to party! (And the Flemish, too--right L? ) Carry on, and on, and on, and on. Head to the Leidseplein! ... then again ... maybe not.
   
  HAVE FUN!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Happy NY everyone, It's 1 am and I'm in bed already. Gonna get up early to listen to the WA2 and 339. How's that for a NY celebration?


 
   
  Big thumbs up for that!


----------



## hifimanrookie

clayton sf said:


> The Dutch really know how to party! (And the Flemish, too--right L? ) Carry on, and on, and on, and on. Head to the Leidseplein! ... then again ... maybe not.
> 
> HAVE FUN!!!



Yep..how'd u guess we go to leidseplein?  Hope u will have a long new year party also..my bro had to work tonight poor guy.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hifimanrookie said:


> Yep..how'd u guess we go to leidseplein?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  'cause that is where I go when I'm in Amsterdam to celebrate the new year. There are lot's of ground fireworks. But the ground is wet so lots of people, music, drink, and really good vibes.
   
  Grab some oliebollen! Helps prevent a hangover.


----------



## hifimanrookie

clayton sf said:


> 'cause that is where I go when I'm in Amsterdam to celebrate the new year. There are lot's of ground fireworks. But the ground is wet so lots of people, music, drink, and really good vibes.
> 
> Grab some oliebollen! Helps prevent a hangover.



I already had some oliebollen..yummy..cant drink to much..as i am the bob (the non drinking driver) for tonight and dont wanna crash my baby ( my car  )


----------



## Silent One

Happy 2013 everyone...everywhere!


----------



## rosgr63

Happy New Year to all


----------



## Xcalibur255

I have a question for my esteemed friends here.  With tax return and a few other aides coming soon it may finally be time for me to (gasp!) spend money on actual headphones for once rather than amps for same pair I've had forever now.
   
  I cannot, for the _life_ of me, decide between the LCD-2 and the HE-500.  I have read reviews, read threads, read opinions, over and over and the two fight each other to a draw every time.
   
  What I need is a perspective that is not my own, and since I've rambled on time and again about how I hear various tubes and things maybe you all can give me an angle on it that I may have missed.
   
  I'd love to hear everybody's thoughts, because frankly I'm lost.


----------



## wotts

I've tried to like the LCD-2, but it's always seemed muddy and dark to me. I really didn't care for the LCD-3 much either. While it did sound much better, I think it's not my cup of tea.

Granted, I've always compared both to the HE-6 under meet conditions. And I truly love the HE-6. I've toyed with the idea of the 500 to use with my less powerful amps and maybe capture some of that magic away from a speaker amp/vintage gear. I'd really love to try one with the OTL.

I would recommend using the headphone loan program from TheCableCo or ask someone local to borrow a pair. When I try a new pair out, I like to give it a week or two so my wars adjust to the new sound. When I flip between the HE-6 and W3000, I dislike the one I'm moving to for a few days.

Sorry if my rambling makes the situation worse


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I have a question for my esteemed friends here.  With tax return and a few other aides coming soon it may finally be time for me to (gasp!) spend money on actual headphones for once rather than amps for same pair I've had forever now.
> 
> I cannot, for the _life_ of me, decide between the LCD-2 and the HE-500.  I have read reviews, read threads, read opinions, over and over and the two fight each other to a draw every time.
> 
> ...


 

  
  If your into detail and imaging I would try the HD800  for imaging they can't be beat.
  They can sound bright to some people but the OTL tames this with the right tubes.
  I sold a OTL amp to someone that prefers the HD800s and OTL to a stax system.
  I know they are a little pricy so it is best if you can barrow a pair or get a pair on loner


----------



## john57

I am more in agreement with Watts that the LCD-2 is way too rich and dark for my needs. If you like a rich sound pick the LCD-2 or a more airy sound the HE500. Then is would be a easy chocie to make.The HE-6 is the best of the 'Orthodynamic' planar-magnetic type currently available and second place is quite a bit behind, just my opinion. If I was getting another pair of cans I would take a another look at the AKG K550 which is more suitable on a greater range of amps than the above two cans you mention.


----------



## Xcalibur255

My biggest issue is really lack of experience with other headphones.  I don't know if I would like a different sound signature because I've really only heard one aside from cheap headphones.  I live in the sticks, so borrowing locally is out.  I probably should have mentioned that my absolute spending ceiling is 1K, even that is a major stretch.  I'll be eating ramen next month after I buy them, but I have been wanting a new set of cans for a loooooong time and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel so I'm doing it as soon as I'm able to.
   
  What I'm seeking is maximum realism and transparency without a tonal balance that sounds dry or kills emotional engagement.  I want to take the realism up a notch over what the K701 is capable of and maybe get a bit fuller and richer sound without sacrificing the airy quality I like about them.  I never even liked my headphones until I owned the OTL, it made the treble and midrange enjoyable for the first time with the right tubes.  I think my phones sound awful with every solid state amp I've ever plugged them into, and the WA6 was a compromise in many ways.
   
  So logically I keep thinking HE-500, but something keeps wispering to me that I might really like the current version of the LCD-2.  My biggest concern about the LCD-2 is that it will sound too thick and not have the sense of air I want.  My biggest concern about the HE-500 is that, looking at the frequency graphs, its "presence bump" in the treble range is actually even higher than the K701s so they might have the same sense of edge and sibilance I want to get away from right now.
   
  I'm not sure which voice to listen to. 
   
  I do appreciate the comments this far.  Thanks!


----------



## wotts

Not to add to even more the mix, but I love my T1s from the OTL. I loved them from the Valhalla and Crack too. There is something about the T1 and any OTL I guess. Shoot me a PM if you want to hear more.


----------



## Xcalibur255

On a completely unrelated note, I'm sitting here way past my bedtime (and dreading work in the morning) listening to a Philips Holland ECC33 on loan to me from a fellow member.  Given the tiny little plates inside it I was expecting something mild and polite.  Wrong.  This tube is an absolute _monster_.  I intend to post a full and detailed writeup in a few days after I spend more time with it, but I can already say that for instrumental music this is far and away the best I have ever heard in my life in terms of dynamics, realistic timbre and note attack.  Better than the Tung Sol black glass round plate.  Better than the Marconi Osram B65.  Better than the Mullard ECC32.
   
  I am mightily impressed.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I am more in agreement with Watts that the LCD-2 is way too rich and dark for my needs. If you like a rich sound pick the LCD-2 or a more airy sound the HE500. Then is would be a easy chocie to make.The HE-6 is the best of the 'Orthodynamic' planar-magnetic type currently available and second place is quite a bit behind, just my opinion. If I was getting another pair of cans I would take a another look at the AKG K550 which is more suitable on a greater range of amps than the above two cans you mention.


 
   
  How do you define rich?
   
  I find the LCD-2s/3s to be the most enjoyable headphones I have ever heard (other than the Sony MR-10s).  They deliver the music with such ease.  They are definitely not bright, but I wouldn't call them dark.  Granted, it is all relative, but most dynamic headphones are way too bright for me.  The LCDs are pretty even throughout the frequency spectrum, and given that most lack real bass, they do a pretty good job of it.
   
  YMMV


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> On a completely unrelated note, I'm sitting here way past my bedtime (and dreading work in the morning) listening to a Philips Holland ECC33 on loan to me from a fellow member.  Given the tiny little plates inside it I was expecting something mild and polite.  Wrong.  This tube is an absolute _monster_.  I intend to post a full and detailed writeup in a few days after I spend more time with it, but I can already say that for instrumental music this is far and away the best I have ever heard in my life in terms of dynamics, realistic timbre and note attack.  Better than the Tung Sol black glass round plate.  Better than the Marconi Osram B65.  Better than the Mullard ECC32.
> 
> I am mightily impressed.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I have a question for my esteemed friends here.  With tax return and a few other aides coming soon it may finally be time for me to (gasp!) spend money on actual headphones for once rather than amps for same pair I've had forever now.
> 
> I cannot, for the _life_ of me, decide between the LCD-2 and the HE-500.  I have read reviews, read threads, read opinions, over and over and the two fight each other to a draw every time.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Perhaps, you'd like to read up on the Cable Co.'s Headphone initiative and Lending Library:
   
   
  http://www.thecableco.com/newsletter-detail.aspx?iid=5822


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Philips Holland ECC33


 
   
  That's probably a Mullard-made tube despite the label.


----------



## rosgr63

I am sure it is a Mullard as Philips never made any ECC33's.
   
  As coincidence has it I am also trying an ECC33 as we speak.


----------



## Silent One

Mullard ECC33 - Best place to buy one for evaluation? I'd like a serving of audio gooey-ness if there's any to be had.


----------



## dminches

Like everything else, the price of ECC33s has gone up quite a bit.  The last pair I purchased was a little less than 2 years ago and it cost $250 which I am sure is much higher than others paid a couple years before.


----------



## rosgr63

A lot depends on the particular type, condition, matched codes, original boxes, etc.
   
  I would say $250 is on the  "cheap" side nowadays, unless the ebay God is asleep.
   
  BTW how do you like them David?


----------



## dminches

I agree, $250 is cheap now.  I think $350-$400 is more likely, right?
   
  I like them, but I think I like the ECC32s more.
   
  You?


----------



## rosgr63

Right, they command high prices now.
   
  I have not tried any of my ECC32's for a long time, to me the ECC series are very nice.
   
  Most of the time I am very happy with my cheap tubes (less than $50) which I mostly use.


----------



## dminches

Then why do you still buy the expensive ones?


----------



## rosgr63

Tube Addict!


----------



## dminches

Whew.  I am glad this had nothing to do with a silly New Year's resolution.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am sure it is a Mullard as Philips never made any ECC33's.
> 
> As coincidence has it I am also trying an ECC33 as we speak.


 

 So even though it says made in Holland on it is actually British made?  I guess that makes sense since the ECC tubes are a Mullard thing apparently.  I am less versed on European tubes than American ones.
   
  I am finding that post burn-in it is still too "in your face" for some types of music.  Not harsh, just really forward and aggressive sounding.  I never would have thought a tube could have dynamics like this.  The most interesting thing is it doesn't really sound unnatural or artificial.  The attack and decay on guitar notes was as good as holding one in your hand and hearing the real thing.  It doesn't sound like a recording, it just sounds real.  Very few tubes do this for me.
   
  I like the ECC32 too, but for anything non-vocal I'm finding this ECC33 to be the more transparent.  The ECC32 is impressively balanced sounding tonally, which means it is somewhat dry on my headphones of course.  No major flaws to speak of, unlike the B65 which only seems to work well with certain types of music.  But, when it works it works wonderfully I must say.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So even though it says made in Holland on it is actually British made?


 
   
  Yes, they weren't always exactly forthcoming with the truth.
   


> I guess that makes sense since the ECC tubes are a Mullard thing apparently.


 
   
  The ECC3x series especially.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Perhaps, you'd like to read up on the Cable Co.'s Headphone initiative and Lending Library:
> 
> 
> http://www.thecableco.com/newsletter-detail.aspx?iid=5822


 

 My only problem with this is you have to buy stuff from them to get your lending deposit back, but for people planning to buy from them anyway it seems like a good deal.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Yes, they weren't always exactly forthcoming with the truth.


 
   
  So then how do we know that Holland-made Philips tube is made by Mullard in the UK?


----------



## Neogeo333

The three to the left seems to have different construction than the Holland made.


----------



## rosgr63

I believe the only difference is the colour of the base.
  They were all made by Mullard UK, which was owned by Philips, Oskari knows much more than me.
  When you know how to read the codes, you'll find out which factory made them, if they are correct of course!
   
  This thread has more info: http://www.head-fi.org/t/558352/ecc33-ecc35-tube-addicts
   
  There are short base ones brown or black, with D-Type wire or inverted cup getters, grey and black plates too.


----------



## rosgr63

Excellent news Glenn!
   
  The First Aid "Make Me Very Happy" Kit just arrived........................
   
  Thanks a lot


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Excellent news Glenn!
> 
> The First Aid "Make Me Very Happy" Kit just arrived........................
> 
> Thanks a lot


 

 whats in it?


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> The three to the left seems to have different construction than the Holland made.


 
   
  The internals are just shown from a different angle.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> When you know how to read the codes, you'll find out which factory made them, if they are correct of course!
> 
> This thread has more info: http://www.head-fi.org/t/558352/ecc33-ecc35-tube-addicts


 
   
  Including links to information about those codes.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So then how do we know that Holland-made Philips tube is made by Mullard in the UK?


 
   
  Look-and-feel, man, and a little bit of knowledge! (Better see the other thread ^^^^^.)


----------



## Xcalibur255

Gosh, I really need to dust.


----------



## Silent One

It's like seeing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 an old friend again...


----------



## dminches

I think I am using one of Glenn's adapters in every amp I own.


----------



## Silent One

Majestic!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I think I am using one of Glenn's adapters in every amp I own.


 
   
  Ah.....Decware and the Mighty 596!


----------



## Clayton SF

Yes! Decware...


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice photos!
   
  That 596 is scary!


----------



## Xcalibur255

So my initial take on the 5687 is positive.  I think the tube sounds good in the amp and is a worthy 6SN7 alternative.  Its sound is close enough to the 6SN7 that differences would be quite academic, but it is worth nothing that what I heard felt on par with my favorite 6SN7s, not just any piece of glass.  The bass is standout, it is much like the VT-231 KenRad with great drive.  Overall a nicely textured an detailed sound that is a bit on the mellow and laid back side with a bigger soundstage than most 6SN7 can throw.  Tonally it resembles a Hytron GT but without the bass rolloff and a bit different treble presentation.  They both share a creamy, textured and prominent lower midrange.
   
  Coming off the ECC33 I thought it might be unfair, but the 5687 sounds pretty transparent and true to the music.  I would say the realism of instrument timbres was on par with my favorite Sylvania, almost on par with the BGRP Tung Sol, but this opinion lacks seasoning since I have done little comparing at this point.  I'm just taking my gut feeling from the listening session compared to how I generally feel about my other tubes.
   
  These tubes aren't exactly dime a piece as they have their own reputation, but they do sound good.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So my initial take on the 5687 is positive.  I think the tube sounds good in the amp and is a worthy 6SN7 alternative.  Its sound is close enough to the 6SN7 that differences would be quite academic, but it is worth nothing that what I heard felt on par with my favorite 6SN7s, not just any piece of glass.  The bass is standout, it is much like the VT-231 KenRad with great drive.  Overall a nicely textured an detailed sound that is a bit on the mellow and laid back side with a bigger soundstage than most 6SN7 can throw.  Tonally it resembles a Hytron GT but without the bass rolloff and a bit different treble presentation.  They both share a creamy, textured and prominent lower midrange.
> 
> Coming off the ECC33 I thought it might be unfair, but the 5687 sounds pretty transparent and true to the music.  I would say the realism of instrument timbres was on par with my favorite Sylvania, almost on par with the BGRP Tung Sol, but this opinion lacks seasoning since I have done little comparing at this point.  I'm just taking my gut feeling from the listening session compared to how I generally feel about my other tubes.
> 
> These tubes aren't exactly dime a piece as they have their own reputation, but they do sound good.


 

 I had the tube and made the adapter and sent it to you and never listened to the tube. Normally I don't like the sound of 9 pin tubes so I don't bather
  trying them.  I guess I should have this time. I don't have a amp that uses a 6SN7 now anyway Until I make the next OTL.
     Maybe I will make one of these adapters for rosgr63 to try and see how it compares to his 6SN7s


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn, I have two 5687 adapters that came with one of my SP's but never got to try them yet.
   
  I don't think 9pins can beat the 6SN7/6F8G's.
   
  BTW I like the way you and xcalibur are making my tube addiction even worst!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn, I have two 5687 adapters that came with one of my SP's but never got to try them yet.
> 
> I don't think 9pins can beat the 6SN7/6F8G's.
> 
> BTW I like the way you and xcalibur are making my tube addiction even worst!


 

 I guess we will have to Waite till xcalibur does some more listening on this tube. I will have to look through my junk and see
  if I have another 5687 tube.
  I think you are right about the 9 pin not being able to best the octals at this point I don't even use octals anymore all UX4
  tubes for me.


----------



## rosgr63

Best Power tubes are UX4/B4 I think.
   
  The bottomless pit of tube addiction is becoming an abyss now!


----------



## 2359glenn

Now I am going to get get Xcalibur into UX4


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Now I am going to get get Xcalibur into UX4


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Now I am going to get get Xcalibur into UX4


 
   
_Ah...someday. _


----------



## rosgr63

UX4 addicts should read this thread then:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/477288/300b-tube-addicts/60#post_8652872


----------



## longbowbbs

^^
   




   
  Those tubes should be marketed by Tiffany.....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> UX4 addicts should read this thread then:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/477288/300b-tube-addicts/60#post_8652872


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Which Tiffany...?


----------



## longbowbbs

http://www.tiffany.com/?siteid=1&omcid=G37971&iq_id=13379082&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=01%2BBranded%2BNew%2B-%2BExact&utm_term=13379082-tiffany%2B&%2Bco
   
   
  Home of the little blue box.....


----------



## rosgr63

I can think of better videos of Tiffany...................


----------



## Xcalibur255

I agree most of the 9-pins are nothing special.  The reason I was interested in trying it was because this particular tube is from a family of space age tubes designed for military and NASA use.  They are used in some very nice amps and seem to have come from a totally different engineering background than the commercial audio 9-pins like the 12AX7 and their lot.
   
  From what I heard last night, I don't think it beats a good Tung-Sol, but I can think of a lot of other 6SN7 tubes I have listened to that the 5687 does beat.  If I had to bottom line it straight against another tube I would say it matches up to the Hytron 6SN7GT in overall ability except it has way better bass than the Hytron does.  Pricewise they seem like good value for the dollar to me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Now I am going to get get Xcalibur into UX4


 
   
  Ready and willing.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I would have to say if there is a weak spot in the 5687 it would be dynamics.  Not in the note attack, that is not bad, but rather the actual contrast between loud and quiet notes feels diminished somewhat.  It sort of softens the whole presentation some which hurts realism a bit.
   
  The tube is opening up a bit in today's listen.  The bass slam is reduced now but it became tauter in exchange.  I really like the tube's tonal balance, kind of a mix of Sylvania and Hytron sound even though this is a Tung Sol tube.  It doesn't sound rolled off anywhere but is balanced and mellow.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I don't think 9pins can beat the 6SN7/6F8G's.


 
  Yes indeed, but have you tried 6CG7/6FQ7? Looking for the Mazda with heat shield from upscaleaudio, they are the better 9 pins.


----------



## rosgr63

I have not tried the Mazda but a few other 6CG7/6FQ7.
   
  The 6CG7 is the 9pin version of the 6SN7.


----------



## dminches

My experience is that 6SN7s sound better than 6CG7s.


----------



## Skylab

That's been my experience as well. I like the Mazda 6FQ7, and the RCA clear top, but I like 6SN7's better in the same gear.


----------



## Seamaster

skylab said:


> That's been my experience as well. I like the Mazda 6FQ7, and the RCA clear top, but I like 6SN7's better in the same gear.







dminches said:


> My experience is that 6SN7s sound better than 6CG7s.




l am saying it is the BETTER 9 pin


----------



## rosgr63

You are right, they look very nice.
   
  I had an eye on them on ebay but they were sold off before I could get a pair.


----------



## Seamaster

rosgr63 said:


> You are right, they look very nice.
> 
> I had an eye on them on ebay but they were sold off before I could get a pair.




if you just want to try, i can loan you mine. i have adapters too that Glenn made for me


----------



## rosgr63

Many Thanks Griffin, you are very kind.
   
  I have a backlog of tubes to test so I won't be able to enjoy them at the minute.
   
  My 6CG7/6SN7 adapters are also made by Glenn who did a great job.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quiet in here....I am in Boston for a meeting  and had to trade tubes for chowder this week....


----------



## dminches

Where in Boston are you?


----------



## longbowbbs

The beautiful and spacious Westin Waterfront for our annual sales meeting....Every January...


----------



## Skylab

Wow...I'm taking my sales team to San Diego


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Wow...I'm taking my sales team to San Diego


 
   
   
  Hiring? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Our national sales meeting moves around each year, but I've not had the opportunity to go. Then again, I'm Quality so I'm never anyone's friend.


----------



## longbowbbs

We'll be in San Diego in April...Orlando in March


----------



## dminches

I will be in Des Moines at the end of January.


----------



## Skylab

dminches said:


> I will be in Des Moines at the end of January.




Well, that's better than...ummmm...Duluth?



Mercifully, I only have to put on one of these things a year. They are a lot of work.


----------



## dminches

It is better than Cedar Rapids. That's about it. Des Moines actually has a lot of excellent restaurants.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, that's better than...ummmm...Duluth?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thunder Bay?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I could use a new Yob, so I could buy my first round of custom DHT gear.


----------



## longbowbbs

So close,, Dave. I'll be in Milwaukee that last week.


----------



## dminches

Any of you gents going to Axpona in Chicago in March?  I am.


----------



## Skylab

dminches said:


> Any of you gents going to Axpona in Chicago in March?  I am.




Come hang out with David and me!!!! We will be having fun I promise 



silent one said:


> I could use a new Yob, so I could buy my first round of custom DHT gear.:evil:




If you are a technology sales person, you bet we are hiring. I've hired 40 people in the last year on my team, and the company has hired about 80.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Any of you gents going to Axpona in Chicago in March?  I am.


 
   
   
  Since it's only about 2-3 hours to drive over I've been thinking about it. I've never been to a big show, or any show really.


----------



## dminches

My first big show was the RMAF in 2011 and it was amazing.  2.5 days of looking at and listening to audio equipment.  It really doesn't get much better than that.


----------



## Skylab

Yep, we sure had a blast at that one!!!!! It really is a fun thing to do.


----------



## Xcalibur255

LCD-2s have landed.  I am............. extremely confused by what I'm hearing from them.  This is the exact polar opposite of every single thing I have read about them.
   
  These things are insanely bright, way more lit up all the way through the treble range compared to my (infamously bright) K701s.  Lush is the absolute last word I would use to describe this.  The sibilance is unbearable.
   
  Since I can't compare them to the K701s directly anymore I just have to go by what I'm hearing right now, but this is disappointing.  I should have replaced my K701s with another pair of the same I'm thinking.
   
  A hundred people on the forum complain that these are too dark,and I'm hearing this.  Especially considering which headphone I came from.  Am I crazy here?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> LCD-2s have landed.  I am............. extremely confused by what I'm hearing from them.  This is the exact polar opposite of every single thing I have read about them.
> 
> These things are insanely bright, way more lit up all the way through the treble range compared to my (infamously bright) K701s.  Lush is the absolute last word I would use to describe this.  The sibilance is unbearable.
> 
> ...


 
  Try switching to RCA 6AS7s you should have a tube combination to tame this.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> LCD-2s have landed.  I am............. extremely confused by what I'm hearing from them.  This is the exact polar opposite of every single thing I have read about them.
> 
> These things are insanely bright, way more lit up all the way through the treble range compared to my (infamously bright) K701s.  Lush is the absolute last word I would use to describe this.  The sibilance is unbearable.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have listened to the LCD-2/3s with a number of amps.  The last thing I would ever call them is bright.  I have never thought they were bright.  Maybe they can be a little dark at times, but never bright.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I know, I'm just blown away that they are more lit up than what I was used to.  I could ask a hundred people here and get 100 answers saying that's impossible.
   
  The bass is nothing short of incredible though.  Again, not what I was expecting as I find there is no more bass presence than my (supposedly bass light) K701s had, but the weight and drive is certainly better.
   
  I'm not going to set my mind in stone based on first hour impressions, but I can't help but be shocked at how different they were from my expectations.  I will give them some time, but I think I'm going to work on scraping some money together to buy some K702s as I can already tell I'm going to miss them.  Maybe it is just because I listened to them for so long, but I never realized how well aligned they were to my tastes after all.  Maybe the old K701s were getting tired, but clarity wise they were never better right up to the day they were slain.  Well, once I got this amp anyway.  I couldn't imagine what these would sound like on solid state, they are borderline dry sounding as it is.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I have listened to the LCD-2/3s with a number of amps.  The last thing I would ever call them is bright.  I have never thought they were bright.  Maybe they can be a little dark at times, but never bright.


 

 Right, this is why I'm so surprised.  I've got them on my head right now, and this significantly brighter sounding to me than my old K701s.  Maybe I got a weird pair?


----------



## dminches

Are the LCD-2s new or used?


----------



## Xcalibur255

They are brand new.  I was told they don't change by any noteworthy amount from break-in, is this perhaps not true?  I'm not going to condemn them until I've given them a more fair shake, for sure, I just need to get over my shell shock right now.


----------



## dminches

They definitely change while the membrane starts to flex.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Okay, I'll stay open-minded and give it some time then.  Thanks.


----------



## wotts

My thought would be not enough power. The HE-6 sound brittle and weak from a few of my weaker amps. I know the LCD-2 is way easier to drive though.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's not brittle per se, just much more lit up than I was expecting.  With these tubes the OTL should be clearing 2 watts per channel easy, that is certainly enough power and more than many LCD-2 owners are using I think.  If there weren't enough power the dynamics and bass wouldn't be good, and they are both impressive.
   
  I shouldn't have gone ranting about it like I did, that was an overreaction on part.  I'm just genuinely surprised to hear something so different from what everybody describes them to be.
   
  I will need to give the whole situation some time I think.


----------



## wotts

I really have to give them another try I guess. I've never been impressed over all, but again, I've only played with the LCD2/3 in meet conditions.


----------



## Seamaster

Sounds. like more burn in is required. i would also replace that stock cable with some good copper one.


----------



## rosgr63

Xcalibur, don't underestimate the K701's.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Xcalibur, don't underestimate the K701's.


 
  Indeed.  Glenn's amp really shows what they are capable of.  They were not perfect, but sometimes they felt close.  I think I will own another one actually, but not right away.  I don't think the LCD-2 will ever offer the sense of air that the K701 is so good at, so it would be ncie to go back to it sometimes.  The thought of having to burn in a new pair makes me grumble though. 
   
  The LCDs have already settled down a bit, I think they will turn out fine.  I figured it had been a while since I'd made a fool of myself so I thought I would make a fuss and forget all about new headphones needing burn-in.


----------



## john57

[size=medium][size=medium]If it was me I go to a friend house or to my local BB store and see if I get the same results on SS receiver amps. When I received results total unexpected I assume nothing and prove everything when troubleshooting. Good luck and hope that you go over your shock. It has happens to me a few times. [/size][/size]
  [size=medium][size=medium]I would not assume anything and start from the ground up. I do not think that the LCD2 needs a great deal of break in.[/size][/size]


----------



## Clayton SF

All this talk of the K701 has made me listen to it again. It is a wonderful headphone. It says made in Austria. Would these sound the same as the ones not made in Austria?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> All this talk of the K701 has made me listen to it again. It is a wonderful headphone. It says made in Austria. Would these sound the same as the ones not made in Austria?


 
  That is a question that recently crossed my mind as well.  Mine were made in Austria too.


----------



## rosgr63

Mine were made in Austria too.


----------



## Clayton SF

I listened to the K701s last night and although the sound signature's "weight" is not as heavy as some of my other headphones, it has the clarity that bests my other headphones. I can understand why they are used in the recording studio.
   
  Glenn's amp has incredible sound presence which makes the K701s an agreeable companion. IMHO.
   
  Made in Austria #14914


----------



## rosgr63

I just started listening to them again.
  The clarity is excellent.
   
  #29976 Made In Austria.
  Reterminated to Balanced, using an XLR to SE adapter for Glenn's amp.


----------



## john57

The K701 puts too much pressure at the bottom of the cups and therefor too much pressure on my neck which in turn can muffled the sound. I would then have the bend the wire frame to make the headphones more parallel to my face. I would agree that the K701 has clarity and less congested as compared to some of the planner headphones that I have tried. Clarity ranks high on my list. I tried the AKG K550 last week at BB but the headphones keeps sliding down on my head. The "wings" were useless to me. There is no "perfect" headphones is why I have several headphones at home to choose from. I do tend to find the negatives first before commenting on the positives since that the way I tend to approach things.
  I do have a planner headphone the Fostex T50RP which until now had unrefinded treble but I found a solution [size=11pt]unexpectedly [/size]and now the Fostex sounds so much better.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ah--
   
  Two videos of interest for this lazy Sunday afternoon:
   
  1) How the AKG K702 (Austria) headphones are made; and
  2) The Blackburn Story (how Mullard valves are made).
   
  Happy Sunday.
  My apologies if you've already seen these.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I listened to the K701s last night and although the sound signature's "weight" is not as heavy as some of my other headphones, it has the clarity that bests my other headphones. I can understand why they are used in the recording studio.
> 
> Glenn's amp has incredible sound presence which makes the K701s an agreeable companion. IMHO.
> 
> Made in Austria #14914


 

 The OTL gives the K701 a weight and body that I honestly didn't think they could have until I heard it for myself.  I did not find the bass wanting anymore either.  The way they are voiced in the mids gives vocals this larger than life realism that doesn't sound fake or unnaturally highlighted with the right tubes.  This is something I am missing right now.  Everything is very subjective, I'm viewing what I'm hearing right now through a lense that was colored by the AKGs for four years so there is bound to be an adjustment period.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I just started listening to them again.
> The clarity is excellent.
> 
> #29976 Made In Austria.
> Reterminated to Balanced, using an XLR to SE adapter for Glenn's amp.


 

 #14850.  May they rest in peace.
   
  john, did you ever try wearing them with the headband placed very forward on your head, close to your forehead?  I've found the earcups don't seat right when they are worn with the band on top of your head.  The treble is better balanced once the earcups seal right too.  You can also "pivot" the headband itself by twisting it forward on those fasteners they are attached with.  I found this helped quite a bit too with wearing comfort.


----------



## john57

Xcalibur255
   
  [size=medium]At first thought moving the headband forward would put the pressure point more toward the back of my neck and that is the area where my Eustachian tubes are.  After about 15 minutes my tubes will start to close and the sound will become muffled. On the other hand my Shure 940 requires me to move the headband forward to get best sound. Since the cups are on a pivot and the pressure is more evenly distributed I do not have an issue. Your second suggestion twisting it forward on “those fasteners” is something I would have to see if that would be feasible. I used to have three pairs of AKG 240 during my college years. They were very comfortable and easy to adjust. They did put some pressure on my Eustachian tubes but not to the degree of the K701. The headphone with the greatest clamping pressure is my HD380 and it does not bother my neck but the pressure becomes a bit overbearing after a hour or two. On the other hand my Beyers T70 is very comfortable with at least the sound isolation of my HD380.  I am planning to sell my Denon AHD2000 since I  never quite like them. The bass is too loose for my needs and it sounds like the [size=medium]Timpanist is using a felt tipped stick instead of the hard stick that is actually being used in the recording.[/size][/size]


----------



## Xcalibur255

Your post has shed some light on what may be going on with me and the LCD-2s actually, john.  Whenever I try to reposition them in search of comfort they suddenly become muffled sounding.  If they are clamping enough to close off my eustachian tubes that would make perfect sense because the loss of pressure equalization would affect the ear drum.
   
  Mystery solved.  Thanks!  I need to work on that headband and reduce the clamping force.
   
  On the subject of the k701, the shiny metal fasteners that attach the headband to the mechanism that lets the whole assembly slide up and down aren't tacked down with all that much force.  You can pivot the whole headband forward so that even if you align the metal arches with the top of your head the band itself is more towards the front.  I found this much more comfortable personally, that way the nub inside the band isn't pressing into your crown area and it lets you keep the proper earcup positioning.


----------



## dminches

How can an over the ear cup close off one's eustancian tubes? I don't see how that is possible with the LCD-2s.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Well, not close off completely but compress.  With some people  this can happen by applying pressure in the right place around the ears.  Mine have been sensitive all my life.  It is just a theory, but would explain the weirdness I've been hearing with the LCD-2 the past few days since I got it.  They make my jawbone hurt pretty badly near the cheek, and if I shift the the earcup even slightly suddenly everything sounds muffled and veiled, the tone even goes flat.  I thought maybe it was the seal being disturbed, but it doesn't go away unless I take the headphones completely off and re-seat them on my ears again.  I get an intense pressure on my eardrums when this happens too, like when you are trying to pop your ears.
   
  I tried stretching the headband just a bit today, but I'm weary of doing so for fear that I'll break it.  Everybody says it is unlikely, but I have that sort of luck.  They're unusable as they are though, the pain is enough that I can't concentrate on actually listening to music.


----------



## Clayton SF

I had problems with my K701 fitting just right on my head and over my ears, so my solution was to wear a baseball cap on my head with a bit of padding under the cap to lift my "head" up about 1/2-inch higher and then place my headphones over my cap and head. It worked for me. Another repositioning-thing that worked for me was that I listened to the headphones while lying on my back in bed with my head resting on a pillow. The headphone cups were being supported by my pillow.


----------



## john57

[size=12pt][size=12pt]First I wanted to say that I do not have a problem with the comfort of the LCD2 other than they are heavy.  The LCD2 have a medium clamping pressure at least to me and it has a pivot point that you can freely move in and out the ear pads and the pressure on the face is about the same from the top and the bottom of the ear cups. My jaw bone just ends a bit before the end of my ear lobe. Under that is my jaw muscle and under that is my Eustachian tube. The AKG k701 headphone have two ear cups or pad that are rigidly attached to the two metal rods. There is no hinge or pivot point available for the ear cups to move freely. You mention that you can twist the cups forward. The whole headphone is curved inward there is more pressure at the bottom vs. the top of the ear cups. The added pressure from the ear cups gets transferred to the skin, muscle and in a short period of time to my Eustachian tubes.  When I had my k240 headphones each hour I would need to take them off and move my jaw and wiggle my ear lobe to free up the pressure in my middle ear and the sounds comes back to normal.  [/size][/size]
   
  [size=12pt]Xcalibur255 [/size]
  [size=12pt]I am surprised, I thought all my life that I was hyper sensitive to this issue but it seems to be a big issue. for you as well. My Fostex is lighter and has less clamping pressure. If you reduce the clamping pressure on the LCD2 you might lose some bass but more important will the headphone stay on your head? It is a heavier headphone. I do not like to sit as a statue. I like to move with my music, dancing or pretending to be a conductor as an example. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



[/size]


----------



## Xcalibur255

I took a few measured attempts at loosening the headband.  I can see I did somewhat because the cups don't hold each other together tightly anymore when they are just sitting on the desk now.  The problem area for me, actually, is the upper joint of my jaw directly in front of my ear canal.  Pressure in this spot is unbearable for me, it causes a burning pain and throbbing.  The LCD-2 elicit this response in about 30 seconds, and trying to move them around makes it worse.  That, and even with all the clamping they never stay exactly put they keep wanting to slide back slightly which increases the pressure on the front of my jaw even more because it moves the pivot point closer to that spot.
   
  I have existing issues with all the joints in my jaw.  The K701s bothered me on some days too, but never like this.
   
  So far this feels like a thousand dollar mistake, both sound and comfort wise.  The detail is certainly great, but the way the music is presented in the space around my head just sounds wrong.  I can't get into the music at all.  I don't think the HE-500 would have been better really, so my only other option would have been to wait another 6 months and buy a Beyer T1 which maybe would have been the right choice for me.
   
  I realize I'm being unfair to the headphone, I have only had it a few days, but when the initial reaction is disappointment it is hard to listen past that.


----------



## longbowbbs

Something a bit different....I got wind of a Kickstarter SS headphone amp project called Sicphones (The name will be changing, there is a contest underway).
   
  http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1682246865/sicphones-a-high-end-silicon-carbide-headphone-amp
   
  I got the amp a few days ago after a 4 month wait:
   
   

   

   

   

   

   
  I have been burning it in for about 50 hours or so. I am using it with my PC_Jriver 18>Audioquest DragonFly>SicPhones Amp>Toxic Cable Silver Widows>HD650's
   
  Hands down best bass I have gotten out of an amp. Granted my CSP2+ is sublime for mids and highs, this SS Silicon Carbide amp kick low end butt! It is very listenable across the full spectrum too. I think I found my new road amp. The case is steel and no tunes to worry about. I can throw this bad boy in my backpack to use at hotels for my usual 3- 4 nights per week routine. The Dragonfly likes its new friend!  $279.....Very cool.....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I took a few measured attempts at loosening the headband.  I can see I did somewhat because the cups don't hold each other together tightly anymore when they are just sitting on the desk now.  The problem area for me, actually, is the upper joint of my jaw directly in front of my ear canal.  Pressure in this spot is unbearable for me, it causes a burning pain and throbbing.  The LCD-2 elicit this response in about 30 seconds, and trying to move them around makes it worse.  That, and even with all the clamping they never stay exactly put they keep wanting to slide back slightly which increases the pressure on the front of my jaw even more because it moves the pivot point closer to that spot.
> 
> I have existing issues with all the joints in my jaw.  The K701s bothered me on some days too, but never like this.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Last year, you were kind enough to share what direction you were moving in with headphones. I was excited then as I am now for you. It seems the new cans may not serve as anticipated. But, I was previously made aware of your sensitivity with headphones in general. And applaud you for stepping away from the venerable K701's to give the LCD-2's a shot. 
   
  Have you considered their return with a restocking fee and starting anew?


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice looking amp longbowbbs.
  How large is the power supply?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Something a bit different...


 
  Yeah, I think it is about time I canned my complaining.  My apologies to everybody for filling the thread up with it.
   
  Back to your post longbowbbs, that seems like one heck of an amp for $279.  They must have come up with a pretty original topology to get performance like what you describe at such a low cost.  I'm guessing it has an external PSU..... is it a switching style or traditional linear?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Last year, you were kind enough to share what direction you were moving in with headphones. I was excited then as I am now for you. It seems the new cans may not serve as anticipated. But, I was previously made aware of your sensitivity with headphones in general. And applaud you for stepping away from the venerable K701's to give the LCD-2's a shot.
> 
> Have you considered their return with a restocking fee and starting anew?


 
  The last two listening sessions showed great promise actually, with the exception of piano pieces which are being problematic for some reason.  I think I have forgotten the need to be patient with new headphones.  They may be exposing limitations not previously evident in my upstream signal chain too, something I should have been more prepared for.
   
  Things will work out somehow.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Does anyone have any experience with RCA 6SJ7WGT Mesh plate tubes? My tube guy is out of TS 6SJ7GT and recommended me these ones, also mesh plates.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Very nice looking amp longbowbbs.
> How large is the power supply?


 
  Similar to a Laptop power supply...24 volt .75 amp external brick...


----------



## Skylab

ultrainferno said:


> Does anyone have any experience with RCA 6SJ7WGT Mesh plate tubes? My tube guy is out of TS 6SJ7GT and recommended me these ones, also mesh plates.




Can he send you pics that you could post? I don't think that RCA actually made mesh shield 6SJ7GT's. while I have some that are branded Raytheon, I believe that only Tung-Sol made mesh shield 6SJ7GTs in the USA. Later, Hitachi made them in Japan, too. I'm not 100% certain of this, of course - tube history forensics are just based on research, and theories can always be debunked by new evidence


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Can he send you pics that you could post? I don't think that RCA actually made mesh shield 6SJ7GT's. while I have some that are branded Raytheon, I believe that only Tung-Sol made mesh shield 6SJ7GTs in the USA. Later, Hitachi made them in Japan, too. I'm not 100% certain of this, of course - tube history forensics are just based on research, and theories can always be debunked by new evidence


 
   
  Here is what he sent me, they do look great! What do you think Skylab?


----------



## Skylab

Yup, those do look nice...and they look EXACTLY like Tung-Sols. It's still possible that they are RCA made, but I'd bet they are not. Either way,if they are not stratosphericly priced, I wouldn't hesitate.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Well he's asking around $50 for a matched pair


----------



## Skylab

That doesn't seem too bad, based on what the TungSols have been going for. The days of getting those for $8-10 each seem over, for now...


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The days of getting those for $8-10 each seem over, for now...


 
   
   Urgh.  I am usually paying at least $8-10 for the shipping alone.


----------



## Skylab

You can get 6SJ7GT's for $12 NOS from places like TubeDepot, but you don't know exactly what you are getting. Buying tubes from Tubedepot can be fun - kinda like playing the lottery. You can get NOS 6F8G's for $8 each. It's unlikely that you will get TS BGRP's for $8, but I can tell you from personal experience that you MIGHT


----------



## 2359glenn

Stan at ESRC1 has 6SJ7GTs for $10 each but again like TubeDepot you don't really know what brands
  you are getting till you open the box.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Ok, take $11 average for 1 tube + matching, I'm sure that costs something as well. Let's say $27 for a pair of mystery 6js7GT tubes. Then add shipping to Europe and I'm sure you'll be very close to $50 for a pair in stead of the $30 you guys would pay.
  My tubes will cost more but on the other hand, I will get awesome looking tubes from RCA! (I have to tell myself something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Ok, take $11 average for 1 tube + matching, I'm sure that costs something as well. Let's say $27 for a pair of mystery 6js7GT tubes. Then add shipping to Europe and I'm sure you'll be very close to $50 for a pair in stead of the $30 you guys would pay.
> My tubes will cost more but on the other hand, I will get awesome looking tubes from RCA! (I have to tell myself something
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well, I got my 596's from you and they were made in the USA and shipped to me from Europe! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Amazing how stuff gets moved around the globe.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Does anyone have any experience with RCA 6SJ7WGT Mesh plate tubes? My tube guy is out of TS 6SJ7GT and recommended me these ones, also mesh plates.


 
  You can also try with a adapter a 6J7G the same tube with a grid cap like the 6F8G & 6SN7 or the 6 pin 6C6 with a adapter also the same tube.
  also the 7 pin miniature 6AU6 is the same tube
  The first one was the 6C6 then came the more modern 8pin 6J7G and then they left out the grid cap and made the 6SJ7G then came the
  miniature 6AU6.
    I don't know the sound or the prices on these tubes but usually the older the tube the better it sounds but more noisy.


----------



## rosgr63

MWT B65+3DG4+5998+The Miracles+Love Machine.


----------



## Silent One

Motown? Now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 that's what I'm talkin' 'bout!


----------



## rosgr63

Marconi Wireless & Telegraph Co B65 + Motown = Bliss!


----------



## Silent One

My poor OTL continues to sit. Last turn-on was 20 December._ However...I continue to _



_dust it._ I may finally get a seat (however brief) in the listening room Tuesday night!


----------



## Clayton SF

I am having fun fun fun (ear fun) with my new headphones. The Ultrainferno DT770 PRO AE LE 32 ohms 88th Birthday! Thanks Ultrainferno!


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice!
   
  You'll have better SQ if you change your driver and power tubes IMHO.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Very good headphone!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am having fun fun fun (ear fun) with my new headphones. The Ultrainferno DT770 PRO AE LE 32 ohms 88th Birthday! Thanks Ultrainferno!


 
   
  That amp is such great eye candy! Thanks for getting my day started off right, Clayton!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> That amp is such great eye candy! Thanks for getting my day started off right, Clayton!


 
   
  It's Blue Monday. Now go back to feeling depressed. Thank you


----------



## Silent One

Stateside, it was anything but _Blue Monday_ in this household - MLKJr's Federal Holiday; President Obama's Inauguration.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Stateside, it was anything but _Blue Monday_ in this household - MLKJr's Federal Holiday; President Obama's Inauguration.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> That amp is such great eye candy! Thanks for getting my day started off right, Clayton!


 
  You're welcome!


----------



## Silent One

*Broken ice...after hours.*
   
  It's been a very long time. At last, I finally broke the ice and now in-session with my audio rig. Last seating was 20 December 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The ECC33 is on point overnight. No real impressions just yet, as I need to get re-acclimated to listening to music. We're letting it ride! Will try and steal a couple of hours each night straight for five days or so.
   
  Actually, I do have an early impression.._.I feel better _



_ already._ Ah, the power of music!
   
  Now playing...Eddie Kendricks "Girl You Need A Change Of Mind."


----------



## rosgr63

The Power of Music is a Healer of *ALL* conditions.
   
  Currently using a CBS/Hytron 6SN7GT 1955 driver, what a nice tube it is!
   
  Just secured a nice 6H12C tube, looking forward to testing it if I feel brave enough!


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> So close,, Dave. I'll be in Milwaukee that last week.


 
  Geesh..i need a new job..i dont do lots of procurement meetings outside of the office..so bye bye procurement specialist..hello sales executive/sales person


----------



## longbowbbs

Green Bay next week....Chicago after that..March in Orlando, April in San Diego, May in Dallas....."On the road again..."


----------



## hifimanrookie

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Green Bay next week....Chicago after that..March in Orlando, April in San Diego, May in Dallas....."On the road again..."


 
  Ru trying to make me jealous..well..u did..ur a bad kittykat..


----------



## Silent One

How are the _specialized_ projects in the studio coming along? I'm tempted to sell something just to raise the cash 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to buy something, but then what? So many pieces of candy to chose from.....so many cavities from purchases gone bad.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Can't wait to learn what emerges from the 2359glenn | studio for Clayton SF & Xcalibur255!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I wonder in what place on the list I am. Glenn said "spring"


----------



## rosgr63

Patience Ultra.
   
  These amps are hand made with love and care.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Patience Ultra.
> 
> These amps are hand made with love and care.


 
   
  I know, I'm not in a hurry but I'm looking forward to it. I think Clayton's mono blocks are finished! Clayton, pictures!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I know, I'm not in a hurry but I'm looking forward to it. I think Clayton's mono blocks are finished! Clayton, pictures!!


 
   
  All right, Ultrainferno. For you and the *Glennaddicts*. Mind you, I haven't received the amps yet--just these photos from Glenn. <<salivate, salivate, drool-drool-drool>>
   
  First mono block has a 281 globe tube.
  Second mono block has a 216 globe tube (very bright).
   
  I will be running both of them with 281s.
   
  Tubes from L to R: 5U4 rectifier, 216 or 81 or 281 half-wave rectifier (for 300B bias), C3G driver, 300B power tube.
   
  I'll send you pictures when they are set up in my system with the Zu Audio Omens.
   
  Thank you, Glenn.


----------



## rosgr63

Fantastic!
   
  I like the glowing 216.
   
  Enjoy them.


----------



## dminches

Wow.  Those look very nice.  Can't wait to hear how they sound.
   
  What power do they put out?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Wow.  Those look very nice.  Can't wait to hear how they sound.
> 
> What power do they put out?


 

 8w. -- Glenn has made me an adapter to plug into the speaker banana plug posts to use headphones. I don't know which headphones that I can use safely but Ultrainferno suggests ortthos. Any other suggestions. He also installed a pass-through so that I can connect his OTL amp to it. There goes the electric bill--again.


----------



## rosgr63

You might want to try AKG K1000


----------



## Silent One

BIG thanks for the sneak preview Glenn; Clayton!


----------



## Clayton SF

I think they're being air-dropped by a C130.
   
  "Okay. Mono block 1. Mono block 2. Spare tubes. What's in the top bag?"
  "It's a bean bag for you to sink in whilst listening to the amps, silly."


----------



## dminches

I hope that is my head amp already strapped in in the front of the cargo area.


----------



## longbowbbs

Awesome Clayton! The Zu's will sing with the new Mono's


----------



## Xcalibur255

They look amazing Clayton, congrats.  I'd love to have a version with 845s on the output side......... maybe someday.  I'm being too selfish, I just got my modest little speaker amp modded after all and that did turn out well.
   
  BTW you can remove the metal shield cans on those C3g tubes, underneath is one of the most beautiful tubes you will ever see.  The German Post tubes have gold grids with woven wire mesh shields around them.  I intend to find out if the guy who sells them (Jacmusic) is willing to remove the shields prior to shipping as a service as I don't trust myself to remove them myself without breaking the tube. We will also need to find out how to locate the index pin afterwards for proper insertion into the socket, but IMO it is well worth it to see a beautiful tube instead of a black metal can.
   
  Glenn told me your monos turned out really well, the C3g ended up being a better driver than the 10Y.  It was a good gamble to try I guess.  I had one of those gut feelings about the tube from the moment I first heard about them a year ago.


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks everyone. I am very excited about Glenn's mono blocks. I'll take unboxing pictures, etc.
   
  Xcalibur255: I don't have the dexterity nor the skill to remove those metal shield cans. Shucks. So I'll just have to enjoy its black satin finish.


----------



## rosgr63

Same story with the Brasilia 6SN7M. 
   
  Jac is very accommodating he'll do his best.


----------



## Silent One

Prediction: I see a BIG fat vacuum tube phono stage coming my way late spring, early summer. _In the mean time...rack 'em!_
   

   
  Left-to-right: Music Hall mmf-7.1; Vintage 1977 Sony PS-X5; Gemini PT-2000 III


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Prediction: I see a BIG fat vacuum tube phono stage coming my way late spring, early summer. _In the mean time...rack 'em!_
> 
> 
> 
> Left-to-right: Music Hall mmf-7.1; Vintage 1977 Sony PS-X5; Gemini PT-2000 III


 
  Do you need the output to be balanced ?  Just in case you get a WA22


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  We're skipping the WA22. Well, unless I trip over one unknowingly placed on the front porch when I dash out to get the mail.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 JUN-JUL-AUG promises to be interesting...
   
  Still would like to see your phono stage - not in a hurry, rather when you have time.


----------



## john57

I like the Music Hall MMF-7.1 turntable the best since it has a clamp. If you use a Sorbothane type of a record mat the difference in SQ is huge since you are bounding the vinyl to a heaver mass. You will be surprised at the difference. I used to have the very latest in turntable technology. The Sony bio-tracker tonearm Sony PS-X600
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  and  the JVC version [size=11pt]QL-Y5F[/size]
  [size=11pt]



[/size]
   
  . Those two turntables had electronic controlled servo tonearms alone with direct drive platter motor. This means that the stylus pressure, anti-skating and damping all done with linear motors with feedback. I had a battery anti-static guns, anti-static record sleves and all kinds of cleaning solutions. Some were very good and some made matters much worst.
  The JVC is my current turntable.
You can see one of the linear motors attached to the right of the tonearm. If you look carefully you can see the pin from the tonearm to the motor I use a light weight record clamp that is slotted and clamps tightly on the spindle when I let go of it. This way I get the full force of a heavy record clamp without the weight. Not only the unusual tonearm but the height of the whole tone arm and tilt of the cartridge can be adjusted as well. See the thumbscrew for height at the left of the tonearm. 
[size=11pt]In spite of the  technology used it was not very expensive turntable. [/size]
_[size=medium]Description_[/size]
_[size=medium]A top model from the JVC range, the QLY5F incorporates this company's version of the electronic tonearm using linear force motors._[/size]
_[size=medium]Any vibrating system utilizing mass and compliance has a resonance point. Therefore, the same applies to the tonearm used in a turntable._[/size]
_[size=medium]Tonearms now sold on the market possess a resonance frequency at around 5-10Hz. This resonance frequency has a great effect on the reproduction of middle and low frequency ranges._[/size]
_[size=medium]In addition, warped and/or off-center records, and/or the external vibrations of it make the tonearm vibrate, thus resulting in a modulation of the sound groove signals when the sound groove is being reproduced._[/size]
_[size=medium]The electro-dynamic servo tonearm employed on the JVC QL-Y5F has been developed to solve these problems._[/size]
_[size=medium]The vibration speed of the tonearm is electrically detected and damped by the operation of the servo loop._[/size]


----------



## 2359glenn

OK it will be less money if I leave out the phase inverters.  So I have a few months to come up with a
  good new design. In that time I have to build several headphone amps


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> OK it will be less money if I leave out the phase inverters.  So I have a few months to come up with a
> good new design. *In that time I have to build several headphone amps*


 
   
*Absolutely!* I am patient but prone to daydreaming.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I like the Music Hall MMF-7.1 turntable the best since it has a clamp. If you use a Sorbothane type of a record mat the difference in SQ is huge since you are bounding the vinyl to a heaver mass. You will be surprised at the difference. I used to have the very latest in turntable technology. The Sony bio-tracker tonearm and  the JVC version. Those two turntables had electronic controlled servo tonearms alone with direct drive platter motor. This means that the stylus pressure, anti-skating and damping all done with linear motors with feedback. I had a battery anti-static guns, anti-static record sleves and all kinds of cleaning solutions. Some were very good and some made matters much worst.
> I also had a Thorens turntable as well.


 
   
  The Rabbit Hole is so large for vinyl playback, you'd think there were Municipal Bonds
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 involved! The turntable belt left me broke but I may look more closely at record mat options March/April. Although, the mmf-7.1 has built-in isolation, I'd rather jack it up on 3"x3" brass footers atop 4" Maple. This tweak made my PS-X5 swing! It has punch, dynamics and is a bit more open sounding up in the middle. 
   
  Will play around with the Music Hall this week with a battery of tuning tests...always fun! I like the 2359glenn/OTL & mmf-7.1 pairing so far. I know there's potential for things to move higher; we are a bit excited this weekend.


----------



## Silent One

Now using my beautiful OTL (2359glenn|studio amp) for both analog & digital; the Vintage Pioneer Stereo Receiver for both analog & digital.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I didn't realize the W4S dacs were that big.  You could fit at least 6 of my VDA-2s inside. 
   
  Also, those toggles on that vintage iron makes me want to go out and buy one just so I can flip them up and down all day.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I didn't realize the W4S dacs were that big.  You could fit at least 6 of my VDA-2s inside.
> 
> Also, those toggles on that vintage iron makes me want to go out and buy one just so I can flip them up and down all day.


 
   
  Well then, you're in trouble - the toggles have a really nice feel to them.


----------



## wotts

SO, that Music Hall TT is sexy! Love the look of the footers under the Mac too. I need to snap up some of those...


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, wotts! Since going sunset-to-sunrise last Friday/Saturday with the MMF-7.1, I'm now back to scheduling listening sessions three to four nights a week...lots of catching up to do! I've been getting a lot of ribbing over the weekend for the TV stand.




   
  And yes, the brass footers make an audible improvement with any source I have, analog or digital. With the latter, the gains get slimmer as I move down the line. BIG gains with the music server, less than with the DAC and even lesser than with the amp.
   
  However, I may try to fabricate a Maple bottom chassis to the OTL, perhaps a 1" plinth. Then I could place brass footers directly underneath - currently the chassis presents a slippery pairing. Already knocked it over accidentally but recovered with black cat like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 reflexes. My biggest concern is fire - would the amp create enough heat over time to start smoking? And catch fire? Not concerned while seated, but when I shut it down and walk away to run down the street or something.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, wotts! Since going sunset-to-sunrise last Friday/Saturday with the MMF-7.1, I'm now back to scheduling listening sessions three to four nights a week...lots of catching up to do! *I've been getting a lot of ribbing over the weekend for the TV stand*.


 
   
   
  I've noticed, and there is the reason I have not posted the mess that is my desk right now. The kitchen remodel is in the final stages (grout and trim), so I'll again be able to get some listening in. I've been on speakers for the last three months. While I love the Wharfedales and the HPM-100s, I miss the intimacy of my cans.


----------



## Silent One

I no longer own speakers or have access to them, but it is speakers that I really miss. I envy you and others who can strike a balance. If I owned some, I'd send an order to the 2359glenn|studio for mono blocks.


----------



## wotts

Once the dust settles from purchases this year, I see something similar in my future. I really want to do some low (<10W) power amps and hi efficieny speakers. I am leaning towards Blumenstein Orcas.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Once the dust settles from purchases this year, I see something similar in my future. I really want to do some low (<10W) power amps and hi efficieny speakers. I am leaning towards Blumenstein Orcas.


 
   
  Blumen...say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




what? I'll have to look 'em up. It could take me awhile before I return to speakers. Living with others present a challenge - I like to respect others. Will look up the Orcas right after a 20 minute Dulce de Leche break!


----------



## Silent One

For those of us with insomnia, some pix from my overnight session. No way I'm gonna hear Chickens & Roosters wearing headphones. I trust some of you will let me know
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 when it's sunrise!


----------



## dminches

SO, those are 2 beautiful pictures.  I will say though that I am biased.  I love sexy equipment.


----------



## Silent One

BIG 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks, dminches.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> For those of us with insomnia, some pix from my overnight session. No way I'm gonna hear Chickens & Roosters wearing headphones. I trust some of you will let me know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That is THE way to start my day. Thanks for the pic SO!


----------



## Silent One

I woke up just before noon today and learned famed Jazz Trumpeter Donald Byrd passed on - R.I.P. I really dug the cat!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I woke up just before noon today and learned famed Jazz Trumpeter Donald Byrd passed on - R.I.P. I really dug the cat!


 
   
  On a more positive note, Clayton's Mono Blocks should arrive today!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> On a more positive note, Clayton's Mono Blocks should arrive today!


 



!


----------



## Clayton SF

Look at what arrived from Glennville 10 minutes ago. I wonder what are in these boxes? Hummmmm?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Look at what arrived from Glennville 10 minutes ago. I wonder what are in these boxes? Hummmmm?


 





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Are you gonna call a Cab to get home?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Are you gonna call a Cab to get home?


 

 A cab? That did cross my mind. Also, I could walk them home--it is only 7 blocks away and I need the exercise. Ultrainferno did offer to help me with getting the amps to my apartment but scheduling a time to meet him at the airport and the trucking the goods up the hill does impeded the unboxing process.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Your mono blocks - this is exciting! Can't wait to see the pix...in fact, I should order a pizza 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 right around the time I think you might post!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your mono blocks - this is exciting! Can't wait to see the pix...in fact, I should order a pizza
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  2 mono blocks = 2x to set up = double the fun!
  Order 2 pizzas!


----------



## 2359glenn

Dam I will be long asleep before you get them hooked up.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Look at what arrived from Glennville 10 minutes ago. I wonder what are in these boxes? Hummmmm?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Dam I will be long asleep before you get them hooked up.


 
   
  But, knowing the amps made the journey with no broken bits/pieces, should allow you to sleep like a baby.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I forgot about Miami @ Oklahoma (NBA), so that pizza came a few hours early.




   
  However, should you want my assistance, I can be there in 60 minutes. All the commute traffic is travelling East!


----------



## Clayton SF

Ready, set, UNBOX.


----------



## Silent One

When it comes to Audio, dinner is overrated - get a smoothie and keep workin'!


----------



## Clayton SF

Ready, set, GLOW!


----------



## longbowbbs

Yeah Baby!! Whoooooo  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  What are the Specs on them?


----------



## dminches

What are the controls on the front?  I assume one is the power switch.  What are the other switch and knob?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> What are the controls on the front?  I assume one is the power switch.  What are the other switch and knob?


 

 The left switch is the On/Off switch. The right switch is for input 1 and input 2. and the knob is the stepped attenuator (volume control).
   
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Yeah Baby!! Whoooooo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  8 wpc. Specs up to 40khz. That's all I know. Glenn can tell you the rest in the morning--perhaps.
   
  Now it is time for dinner and a good glass of wine and a good listen. Right now it sounds extremely detailed. In a fantastic way. I'll give a better listen this weekend. On a 3-day weekend.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Why wouldn't the pre in front of the monos be handling volume control?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Why wouldn't the pre in front of the monos be handling volume control?


 
   
  There is no external preamp. There is a preamp in the monos. I told Glenn that I didn't want another party's preamp to color his monos.


----------



## Silent One

Clayton, I really like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the family photo!


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations, they look fantastic.
   
  Happy Listening.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Very nice indeed. Congrats C and Glenn!!
   
  They look very nice. Looking forward to read more on the sound. please tell me they're clear, detailed and warm sounding and have awesome bass


----------



## Clayton SF

Early impressions. Very early:
   
  These amps sound incredibly good. They rival my Leben CS600. No bull. I know they need more burn-in so I'll be able to tell its signature sound when it settles down. I am very impressed by the sound--REALLY impressed.
   
  I am listening to some 12-string guitar music and it sounds very nice. The sound is very clear, detailed and at the moment slightly warmer than the Leben--every so slightly. I'll be able to tell more this weekend when I can turn the music up just a little more. And maybe roll a few 5v rectifiers.
   
  I wish I had Ultrainferno's camera and camera skills. Hey Ultra- come over to SF and take a few picture for me!


----------



## dminches

Clayton, can you translate the tube wattage into a comparable solid state amp?  I still don't have a great handle on that.  I drive my Vandersteen 5As with a 500 wpc SS monoblocks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Clayton, can you translate the tube wattage into a comparable solid state amp?  I still don't have a great handle on that.  I drive my Vandersteen 5As with a 500 wpc SS monoblocks.


 
   
  I think Glenn is the person to answer this question. I've been quoting his specs and don't really have a grasp on it either.
   
  He said that each mono block puts out 8 wpc. He has speaker posts for 4, 8 and 16 ohm settings. My speakers are Zu Audio Omen Standards that are efficient enough for an 8 wpc amp--and they do sound great.
   
  OMEN QUICK SPECS
 Height: 36” [91.5cm]
 Footprint: 12 x 12” [30.5 x 30.5cm]
 Weight: 53 pounds [24kg] each
 Bandwidth: 35–25kHz
 Effi ciency: 97dB SPL 1W/1m
 Impedance: 12 ohm
_*Power Amp Range: 4–200 watt*_
 Made In Ogden, Utah—U.S.A.


----------



## dminches

Those are very efficient speakers.  My Vandersteens are 87dB.


----------



## rosgr63

Strictly speaking, Watt is a unit of Power.
   
  It can be produced by an amp, an engine etc. and is still a Watt


----------



## Silent One

At this writing, I'm more interested in learning about its "Soup factor" - how much _Soup for One_ must I indulge in and for how long, in order to afford this luxury?
   
  Perhaps, 2359glenn or Clayton SF could send me a private message. 
   
   
  Post Script.:  That's a beautiful close-up, Clayton!


----------



## wotts

Those are some beautiful amps, Clayton!


----------



## Xcalibur255

clayton sf said:


> There is no external preamp. There is a preamp in the monos. I told Glenn that I didn't want another party's preamp to color his monos.




Ah so it's a dual chassis integrated then.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Ah so it's a dual chassis integrated then.


 
  Yes. I guess that's more what it is. Glenn tested these amps by bypassing the preamp. He then put the preamp back into circuit and sent them off to me. So mono blocks don't have built in preamps then? Thanks for clarifying this. I'm learning every day.
   
  I wonder what the innards look like.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes. I guess that's more what it is. Glenn tested these amps by bypassing the preamp. He then put the preamp back into circuit and sent them off to me. So mono blocks don't have built in preamps then? Thanks for clarifying this. I'm learning every day.
> 
> I wonder what the innards look like.


 
   
  That's correct.  Mono blocks are the equivalent to the stereo amp split in 2 with separate power supplies (and everything else).  But, by definition, they are just amps.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> That's correct.  Mono blocks are the equivalent to the stereo amp split in 2 with separate power supplies (and everything else).  But, by definition, they are just amps.


 
  So Glenn's amps are in two chassis (he calls them mono blocks). Each chassis has its own power supply. One chassis is the duplicate of the other; everything else in one is in the other + a preamp in each. Each chassis supports one channel (mono)--one for the left and one for the right. Can they not be called mono blocks? I'm confused.


----------



## dminches

I would say they are mono block integrated amps because they have the pre-amps built in.


----------



## Silent One

A pair of mono channel amps are considered mono blocks...colloquially speaking.


----------



## 2359glenn

The C3g tube is the preamp as well as the driver it has enough gain to be able to leave out the preamp.
  I feel less is more so the less parts the better the sound. This is a two stage amp that I feel will sound better
  then a three stage amp. with a preamp a driver and a output.  This C3g tube has enough gain and drive
  to not need a preamp. the amp only has the C3g and 300B output.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The C3g tube is the preamp as well as the driver ...


 
   
  That is Ultrainferno ultracool! A tube that is both a preamp and a driver. I hear that these C3g tubes are in $60K amps. Never heard of them before Glenn's design.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So Glenn's amps are in two chassis (he calls them mono blocks). Each chassis has its own power supply. One chassis is the duplicate of the other; everything else in one is in the other + a preamp in each. Each chassis supports one channel (mono)--one for the left and one for the right. Can they not be called mono blocks? I'm confused.


 

 Basically the defining difference between a power amp, be it monos or a stereo amp, and an integrated amp is the ability to adjust volume.  Usually when somebody says monoblocks they are referring to power amp circuitry only and something ahead of the signal is adjusting volume, but it's really just semantics considering that everything these days including DACs has a volume control to offer setup flexibility. 
   
  Because your amps can take more than one input and can adjust volume they are technically integrated amps and not pure power amps, they just happen to be in two separate enclosures.  So they would be "mono integrated" rather than the usual "stereo integrated" is all.


----------



## Silent One

To our studio master, well done!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I would say they are mono block integrated amps because they have the pre-amps built in.


 
  I do not think they would have near enough power for the 5A's....Vandy's like power....


----------



## Xcalibur255

It depends a lot on the volume levels you be listening at.  I'm operating 89dB efficient speakers on 4 watts right now and it sounds fine.  But, after accounting for dynamic peaks my steady state volume probably can't be much more than 75dB or I risk clipping during transients and that will take its toll on the speakers over time.


----------



## dminches

I don't normally listen at loud volumes but I need the power for when I do.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I don't normally listen at loud volumes but I need the power for when I do.


 
  There is a good reason my Vandy dealer uses ARC reference gear with the 5a's!
   
  Sure sounds good too...


----------



## dminches

Vandersteen usually auditions his Model 7s with ARC mono blocks.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Vandersteen usually auditions his Model 7s with ARC mono blocks.


 
   
  And they sound darned good that way!


----------



## longbowbbs

The 5A's sure sounded good with the Ref 250's the Ref 5 and the DAC8.....Hours melted away!


----------



## Clayton SF

The innards of the amps. What in the world is that terra-cotta-colored block?


----------



## Silent One

What lies beneath...a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 treat!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The innards of the amps. What in the world is that terra-cotta-colored block?


 
  My guess which I also seen in green are PIO caps.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The innards of the amps. What in the world is that terra-cotta-colored block?


 
  Those terra cotta colord block's are Russian paper in oil capacitors and yes they also come
  in green and grey


----------



## longbowbbs

Beautiful Glenn!


----------



## rosgr63

Work of Art!
   
  Well done Glenn.


----------



## hodgjy

Fantastic looking amps, Glenn!  You, sir, are a very skilled builder!


----------



## 2359glenn

Thank you guys


----------



## rosgr63

Thank You Glenn!
   
  I bet many people don't realise how much work you put into them.
  It looks easy when it's finished, but I am sure it's not.


----------



## Silent One

I love supporting the small, independent artisan!


----------



## wotts

musicman59 dropped by my house earlier today and gave the OTL a listen. I am still using the 596, 5998 and 6F8G tube combo. If I were thinking I'd have tossed in the big Russian (5U8C) tube for him to try. I sent him home with a pair though.  I'm hoping the WA5-LE has enough mustard to use them - with adapters of course.
   
  Now, if I could get rid of this head cold, I'd enjoy the amp some more as well.


----------



## Silent One

Great to hear, wotts! I'm still thinking of visiting my dealer (Robert/Aphroditecu29) perhaps, later this year. If so, I'm gonna try to see if I can't run across you and musicman59 on the same swing (pending your schedules in MI, of course).


----------



## wotts

You're always welcome at Casa de Kurtz. 

When I was in training last January, I tried to hookup with Robert, but our schedules didn't mesh. Perhaps next time.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





wotts said:


> musicman59 dropped by my house earlier today and gave the OTL a listen. I am still using the 596, 5998 and 6F8G tube combo. If I were thinking I'd have tossed in the big Russian (5U8C) tube for him to try. I sent him home with a pair though.  I'm hoping the WA5-LE has enough mustard to use them - with adapters of course.
> 
> Now, if I could get rid of this head cold, I'd enjoy the amp some more as well.


 
  If you gave him 5U8C tubes I wouldn't try them in a woo there transformers can't handle the extra current.
  A 5U4 draws 5 volts at 3 amps and a 5U8C draws 5 volts at 5 amps.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> If you gave him 5U8C tubes I wouldn't try them in a woo there transformers can't handle the extra current.
> A 5U4 draws 5 volts at 3 amps and a 5U8C draws 5 volts at 5 amps.


 
   
   
  I was afraid of that.


----------



## Clayton SF

To the Left and to the Right.
  Mullards abound.
  GZ32 and GZ37.
   
  The GZ37 shines and "sparkles" in this system.


----------



## wotts

I can't get enough of those! And sexy meters to boot!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I can't get enough of those! And sexy meters to boot!


 
  Agreed! Also, is that a Bias adjusting screw to the right?


----------



## Ultrainferno

It is indeed.


----------



## longbowbbs

Clayton, how is the view at night? The daytime view is fantastic!


----------



## Clayton SF

The view is nice. The tubes are not the brightest display of vintage glow--just the tips of the filaments poke over the plates, but it is a lovely sight, nevertheless. Of course if one uses the EML 5U4G, then for that tube the glowing filaments run the length of the mesh plates. I wish I had a better camera.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton what's your 300B tube?


----------



## Clayton SF

It is a JJ tube. Starter set, of course. I can't afford much more until later. What's your take on 300B tubes, excluding WE of course.
   
  The rectifier of choice in Glenn's amps is the GZ37. For some reason it gives the music a more defined quality without being too bright and the amp has a nice warmth to it. Other rectifiers retain the warmth but the GZ37 gives the top end a tiny boost adding a nice sheen or sparkle--just a tad to complete the overall SQ. The bass has opened up in the last 20 hours--maybe it is because of the GZ37. This amp is sounding really wonderful.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks, pleased to know you're enjoying your amps.
   
  From EAT/JJ/KRST/KRBalloon/AVVT32BSL/AVVT AV300BSL-C37 the AVVT AV300BSL-C37 is my reference tube.
   
   
  I haven't tried the WE yet.


----------



## Clayton SF

I can't seem to take decent night-glow photos so I'll settle on this one.


----------



## longbowbbs

Edison would be proud!


----------



## dminches

It is Glenn who should be proud!!!


----------



## rosgr63

*I AM NOT LOOKING!*


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looking really good. Can't wait for my amp!


----------



## Skylab

That pretty much defines awesome.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> *I AM NOT LOOKING!*


 
  Doesn't matter. When you got to bed...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Edison would be proud!


 
  So would San Francisco's top City Urban Planner. Doesn't this look like an aerial view of a proposed Hotel & Entertainment complex?


----------



## Eee Pee

Holy!  Moly!
   
  Nice!


----------



## Clayton SF

You _touch_ my mono blocks and I bite! Rrrrruf rrruf, wiggle nose, wiggle nose.
  OK.
  I've been smitten and bitten.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 ROFL!!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Doesn't matter. When you got to bed...


 
   
  You are so right.............and Glenn is so bad!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Even after getting my _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_, if I had trouble going to sleep, I'd count, read or listen to music in order to fall out. A scant two months later and adapters from 2359glenn dropped on the porch. 
   
  Falling to sleep after end-of-the-night listening sessions became difficult impossible.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I began to see imaginary 6SN7 tubes at the foot of the bed and would mentally began to shop for new glass. Leaving me w-i-d-e  a-w-a-k-e.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Forgot to post it here. Doing a 2399 chatham/Tung Sol sale in the Woo thread. 4 tubes still available. PM me for more info.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Doesn't matter. When you got to bed...


 
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You are so right.............and Glenn is so bad!


 
  Stavros what do you mean that I am so bad?          What are you thinking about when you go to bed


----------



## Silent One

Hopefully vacuum tubes...


----------



## WindyCityCy

I don't know how it took me so long to find this thread.  Awesome stuff Glenn has produced and great banter to boot.  Sat down to check in with head-fi before bed and ended up spending 2 1/2 hours here.  Great memories.  Especially running across Seamaster's old WA22 with the magic crystal on top.  It was thanks to his posts that I got into tubes.  Now you guys are drawing me back in.  Need to digest this excellent content for awhile and watch my tubes for a half hour before bed.


----------



## Silent One

Glad you stopped by. Have yourself a most wonderful and wicked Wednesday!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Forgot to post it here. Doing a 2399 chatham/Tung Sol sale in the Woo thread. 5 tubes still available. PM me for more info.


 
   
  One got cancelled. 5 available


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Stavros what do you mean that I am so bad?          What are you thinking about when you go to bed


 
   
  Your Glorious Amps + Tubes


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> One got cancelled. 5 available


 
   
  Make that 4


----------



## Ultrainferno

On a different topic. what's the 300B FOTM. The JJ's?


----------



## rosgr63

Here is some info from the 300B tube addicts:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/497049/balancing-act-tube-rolling


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Here is some info from the 300B tube addicts:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/497049/balancing-act-tube-rolling


 
   
  Thank you!!
  (Two 2399 tubes left btw)


----------



## Clayton SF

The 596 tubes sound _awesome_ in Glenn's amps.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The 596 tubes sound _awesome_ in Glenn's amps.


 
  No surprise! Awesome tube...


----------



## Skylab

That is one truly wild tube complement. Wow.  Nice!


----------



## rosgr63

Very Nice!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Thanks!
  By the light of an RCA 216-B


----------



## Silent One

Sunday, my 2359glenn-custom built OTL amp enjoyed its 1 year anniversary (695 hrs).


----------



## Ultrainferno

Wat did you get it for its 1st birthday?
  And do you really keep track of hours on your amps :O Impressive!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Wat did you get it for its 1st birthday?
> And do you really keep track of hours on your amps :O Impressive!


 
   
  Partial list:
   
   
 25 Fevrier 2013
  
 D7000 @ 1,809 hrs
 HD650 @ 22 hrs
 W4S DAC-1 @ 1,733 hrs
 Silver Hawk (24 Fev'12) @ 695 hrs
 MMF-7 (Goldring MC) @ 19 hrs
  
  
 I was going to sit-in and play some great music with it. But decided to do movie night. Currently on the iPod/HD650; Tuesday/Wednesday may pair the OTL with the TT.


----------



## rosgr63

*Happy Listening!*


----------



## longbowbbs

SO, you'll need to do more time with your HD650's. Lucky thing you have a few HP related items to use with them!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Partial list:
> 
> 
> 25 Fevrier 2013
> ...


 
  Do you like the sound of the HD650s with the OTL .  I think they sound pretty good with it I have a pair of HD650s and a pair of HD800s.
  I do think the 650s sound good for what they cost.


----------



## rosgr63

I never tried my HD650 yet but my Maestro GMP400 sound very good.


----------



## 2359glenn

The HD650s sound really good in the OTL you should try them when you get a chance.


----------



## rosgr63

You are giving me a huge task Glenn, come on! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Can I try them when my sweets arrive listening to The Love Unlimited Orchestra?


----------



## Clayton SF

A lot of people were very impressed with the sound of the HD650 when I paired it with Glenn's OTL amp at last year's Nor-Cal Meet.
   
  This is from Questhate's Nor-Cal Feb 11, 2012 Impressions Thread post:
   
_*[size=10pt]One of my absolute favorite rigs there was the HD650 + custom 2359Glenn-built amp that was at Clayton SF’s table. I’ve tried to like the HD650 before, but couldn’t help but associate it with the dreaded “V-word”. On this particular amp, it was quite a revelation. It sounded open, airy and clear while still being warm and smooth. Anyone looking for a sub-$1000 endgame, I’d seriously give that pairing a consideration.[/size]*_
   
  and this post from Rockofeller.


----------



## rosgr63

Throw in a RAL cable and you'll be so close to Nirvana!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You are giving me a huge task Glenn, come on!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The sweets won't be there till the end of next week at best


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> SO, you'll need to do more time with your HD650's. Lucky thing you have a few HP related items to use with them!


 
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm w-a-y behind schedule. January saw virtually no head-time at all. I entered the listening room to dust pretty much. The HD650 was stuck on 18 hours for the longest - I added 4 hours last night but with the iPod. Sounds good with the ipod. I've listened to the Senns on the OTL, as well as the Vintage Iron. I'm still trying to get use to them, as I have been emotionally flat of late. I definitely can use more sessions.
   
  One thing that stands out immediately over the young 22 hours, is that it is more sensitive to the quality of recordings. My D7000 is more forgiving and will tolerate many different genres as well in the library. I am enjoying their complimentary role - the two cans together has lifted my experience. 
   
  What's ahead: summertime, I just might get them dolled-up with new cables and have it "Hardwired."


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You are giving me a huge task Glenn, come on!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  YES, I'm going to have to revisit The Love Unlimited Orchestra...and relax.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The sweets won't be there till the end of next week at best


 
   
  Can I be bad until then? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Please?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> A lot of people were very impressed with the sound of the HD650 when I paired it with Glenn's OTL amp at last year's Nor-Cal Meet.
> 
> This is from Questhate's Nor-Cal Feb 11, 2012 Impressions Thread post:
> 
> ...


 

 The OTL is amazingly flexible.  It opens up the HD650, and all the way on the other end of the spectrum it takes the harshness out of the K701.


----------



## Silent One

I'm slowly developing a courtship 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




with the cans...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The sweets won't be there till the end of next week at best


 
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Can I be bad until then?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Just don't be so bad that you are in trouble when the sweets get there.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2399 group buy complete. Thanks everyone!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> 2399 group buy complete. Thanks everyone!


 





 I'm standing @ the front of the queue for the next one.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm standing @ the front of the queue for the next one.


 
   
  I'll keep you to that. If you really need a pair I'll sell you one from my personal stock, or better exchange one for a 596...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I only missed out this time 'cause the tea tins are barren; lying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




on their sides. I have two spares of _The Mighty 596. _Can afford the swap if you'd like! Just woke up; will send PM after Brunch next hour...


----------



## 2359glenn

The amp I have been working on is finished I think it is the best sounding one.
  It uses a new transformer made by Heyboer Transformer It is a little larger and 115/230 volt.
  But I think it has a lower magnetic field around it making less hum and noise to be picked up in the amp.
  I have been using Heyboer Transformers at work in industrial controls and called them when
  the company I have been using got crazy with there prices on custom transformers.
  The Heyboer were 1/3 the price and sounding better is a bonus.


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn. That's really a nice looking amp. Actually better than nice looking--it is GREAT LOOKING!
  You have done a beautiful job again!


----------



## longbowbbs

Excellent looking amp Glenn!...What tubes are those?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The amp I have been working on is finished I think it is the best sounding one.
> It uses a new transformer made by Heyboer Transformer It is a little larger and 115/230 volt.
> But I think it has a lower magnetic field around it making less hum and noise to be picked up in the amp.
> I have been using Heyboer Transformers at work in industrial controls and called them when
> ...


 
   
  Well done, sir! That you feel it's your best sounding, this is at once exciting and pleasing to hear. What type of amp is it? What we really wanna know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is who is that build for?


----------



## john57

Very nice amp, Glenn
  I noticed a bigger case.


----------



## Silent One

Wished I'd logged on earlier when he was present. The wait overnight is gonna kill me - _curiosity killed the night cat? _


----------



## Groundzero

Gorgeous amp Glenn! I finally shifted my Woo and am dying to get my ears on one of your OTLs. Music just isn't the same without tubes..


----------



## wotts

Toooooobes!
   
  With the kitchen project wrapping up, I'm looking forward to some alone time with the OTL and my W3000s. Or T1s...hmm...


----------



## wotts

Also, Glenn, that is a sexy looking amp! I think I see a similar tube compliment as my amp, but a different layout?


----------



## rosgr63

Beautiful amp, well done Glenn.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Very beautiful amp! I'm also wondering about the tubes


----------



## rosgr63

I am guessing 6SSN driver, 3DG4 rectifier, 6AS7G output tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Very beautiful amp! I'm also wondering about the tubes


 
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am guessing 6SSN driver, 3DG4 rectifier, 6AS7G output tubes.


 
   
  From left to right  3DG4 rectifier 6AS7 left output  6SN7 driver  6AS7 right output


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Very nice amp, Glenn
> I noticed a bigger case.


 
   
  The person I built it for wanted it to look similar to the one I built for rosgr63.
  So it used the same chassis the difference is I used a flat R core transformer that went under the
  chassis in rosgr63's amp for the long trip to Europe. And rosgr63's amp has two B4 sockets for
  Marconi LP-2 tubes. That can be used in place of the 6sn7 as far as I know nobody else has
  these nice looking tubes other then rosgr63. 
   
  The fact that the new power transformer is larger may lead to all future OTL amps being made in this
  larger chassis. I haven't looked if it will fit in the smaller chassis even though I have a few to use up.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well done, sir! That you feel it's your best sounding, this is at once exciting and pleasing to hear. What type of amp is it? What we really wanna know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The amp is electrically the same as yours except the power transformer is from a different vendor with a 115/230 primary.
  This way I can use the same transformer if the amp is fore here or Europe.
  This transformer is the same price that I was originally paying before the vendor I was using tripled the price
   
  By the way the amp is fore dminches


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Just a guess it won't be for his Vandersteens!..


----------



## dminches

Nope. It is for my collections of headphones. I am very excited to get this beauty in my hands.


----------



## longbowbbs

Congrats Dave!


----------



## dminches

This is my first amp that uses 2399s/5998s/6ASG7s. Thanks to xcalibur for his work with Glenn on parts of the design.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dminches said:


> This is my first amp that uses 2399s/5998s/6ASG7s. Thanks to xcalibur for his work with Glenn on parts of the design.


 
  I certainly don't deserve credit for any work.  I merely proposed a couple of ideas that turned out to be worth trying.  The work is all Glenn's.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It's ok if you wish to maintain a low profile. But you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 DO have one Mod named after you already...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's ok if you wish to maintain a low profile. But you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  He does? Cool.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I named the "X" mod after him, when Xcalibur255 conceived the idea to get Glenn to run the 5998's hotter in the 6AS7 slot.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I named the "X" mod after him, when Xcalibur255 conceived the idea to get Glenn to run the 5998's hotter in the 6AS7 slot.


 

 That's great!!! All in the family. We Glennites, Glennies, Glennoids, Glenners ... are all in possession of GlennAmps that have Sonic Sophistication.


----------



## Silent One

@ Xcalibur255
   
  RE: "X" mod
   
  Thanks for being a good sport...it's all in fun.


----------



## Silent One

Starting an overnight session...


----------



## wolfetan44

How do I get in contact with Glenn?


----------



## hodgjy

When did you get that beautiful turntable? 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Starting an overnight session...


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> How do I get in contact with Glenn?


 
   
  Send him a PM:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn


----------



## Ultrainferno

They're eagerly waiting to welcome the future 2359Glenn amp to the family


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> When did you get that beautiful turntable?
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Acquired it in January, from a fellow and fantastic head-fi member mikemalter.


----------



## dminches

How is Mike doing?  He completely disappeared from the head-fi scene.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> They're eagerly waiting to welcome the future 2359Glenn amp to the family


 
   
  Now that's a "Welcome home" party I'd definitely arrive for! Beautiful rack, Ultra...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> How is Mike doing?  He completely disappeared from the head-fi scene.


 
   
  He's doing great! I sent his "Hello" to everyone a couple of months back. Enterprising at a higher level (with his business) and striving to maintain balance in life. Still loves music. My temporary residence is only 60 minutes away, so I've had the opportunity to visit and spend time with him a couple of times. Enjoyed relating to him the person, but I also dig his listening room.


----------



## dminches

Good to hear.  Tell him that I said hello.


----------



## hodgjy

I remember Mike from the Woo forum.  I seem to remember him having a WA22.  Is that correct?


----------



## Silent One

Yes. Glenn also modified the '22' for him, as well...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Good to hear.  Tell him that I said hello.


 
  I'll do that...while you're underneath the cans...


----------



## hodgjy

Is there no end to Glenn's design skills?
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes. Glenn also modified the '22' for him, as well...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Is there no end to Glenn's design skills?
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  While I do appreciate him the person, his knowledge and skill in the wonderful world of audio. For me, none of his wizardry in the studio would matter if he lacked enthusiasm. 
   
  To do business with someone who has a shared passion just takes things to another level.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> While I do appreciate him the person, his knowledge and skill in the wonderful world of audio. For me, none of his wizardry in the studio would matter if he lacked enthusiasm.
> 
> To do business with someone who has a shared passion just takes things to another level.


 
   
   
  Cheers to that!


----------



## 2359glenn

Thanks guys for all the kind words.
  But all my skills in the studio would be for nothing if not for you all. 
   
  Glenn


----------



## dminches

Glenn, the rectifiers and fuses arrived today.  I am hoping that means the amp arrives tomorrow!!!
   
  I am leaving Friday morning for Axpona in Chicago so if it doesn't get here tomorrow I will have to wait until I get home Sunday.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Glenn, the rectifiers and fuses arrived today.  I am hoping that means the amp arrives tomorrow!!!
> 
> I am leaving Friday morning for Axpona in Chicago so if it doesn't get here tomorrow I will have to wait until I get home Sunday.


 
  The postal receipt says expected delivery 03/07/13 I hope the storm doesn't slow it down.


----------



## rosgr63

Not long to go now David.
   
  Glenn you have/are building some wonderful amps, and you are very modest, pationate and gifted.
   
  I know nothing pleases you more than making us happy enjoying the music.


----------



## Silent One

I know Seamaster has been busy (we all are, actually...). I wonder what the status of the custom tag design is?


----------



## longbowbbs

I see GLENN in rhinestones with a crown over it....
   
  OK...I never was good at designing stuff.


----------



## rosgr63

What about curved in Maple Butter?


----------



## dminches

*The Eagle Has Landed!*
   
  Sometimes persistence pays off.  When I got home from work I found the dreaded slip in my mail box.  I quickly drove over to the post office to see if I could recover my box.  They told me to return at 5:40 since that's when the drivers return with their loot.  I did so but my mailman had not yet returned.  The PO closes at 6 so it was a race against time.  Well, 6 rolled around and he was nowhere to be found.  I told them I was out of town for the weekend so getting the box tonight was important to me.  They told me to park in the back and wait for him to return.  10 minutes later he did just that.  The minute he saw me he asked "27 Charles" (my address)?  He must have known Glenn's amp was the prize.
   
  I grabbed the box and headed home.  I am listening to some Garcia/Grisman as I type.  My first set of tubes are a pair of TS 5998s, 1 TS 6SN7WGT and a single RCA 3GD4.  I am listening to my ATH-W3000ANVs.
   
  Full impressions to follow along with some pictures.
   
  Ahhh......
   
  Thanks Glenn!


----------



## dminches

Crappy picture to start


----------



## Clayton SF

^ He cannot be stopped! Another beautiful amp by Glenn!


----------



## Silent One

What a story! Now that you're busy, can I assume your 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Axpona reservations?


----------



## wotts

dminches, that is a sharp looking amp!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  I forgot Axpona  was this weekend. I should drive over...


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Crappy picture to start


 
  Can I have?


----------



## dminches

Better pictures


----------



## wolfetan44




----------



## Clayton SF

^ I certainly see a family resemblance!


----------



## Skylab

Dave that is one fine looking amp.  Congrats!!!! Looking forward to hearing all about it the weekend at Axpona!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

David, that is fantastic! Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## wolfetan44

How long did it take for you all to get your amps when you ordered them? I was looking at previous posts and Dmniche said he couldn't want till his amp on 12/1/12. How long?


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations David, nice amp.
   
  Happy Listening!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> How long did it take for you all to get your amps when you ordered them? I was looking at previous posts and Dmniche said he couldn't want till his amp on 12/1/12. How long?


 
   
  Check with SO, he might know more.


----------



## Pudu

Wow, that's sharp!

Congrats to both of you.


----------



## rosgr63

I am very happy tonight, I am listening to my RFT 6H8C, 1954 vintage.
  Thank you Glenn, you've made my night a very happy one!


----------



## Silent One

Pix?


----------



## rosgr63

RFT Large Plates


----------



## Silent One

Looking right mighty! Thanks, rosgr63.


----------



## longbowbbs

Sweet piece of glass Stavros!


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks, it sounds good too.
   
  It wasn't too bad at EUR 27.90 for a strong testing tube.


----------



## Clayton SF

Time to do a little mooning whilst listening to Aretha! Happy Sunday.


----------



## hodgjy

Looks like a lovely afternoon.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Time to do a little mooning whilst listening to Aretha! Happy Sunday.


----------



## Silent One

It actually looks like a commercial shoot...congrats, Clayton SF!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It actually looks like a commercial shoot...congrats, Clayton SF!


 
   
  Thanks!
  Tag line:  Settle on the best--The Glass with Class!
  (Of course some may pick the 596!)


----------



## longbowbbs

I'd post more 596 pics, but SO would rather I not...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I'd post more 596 pics, but SO would rather I not...


 

 We are Family. POST THEM!!! And live life to its fullest.


----------



## longbowbbs

Well, OK.....


----------



## Clayton SF

Thank you, longbowbbs. Those photos were absolutely inspirational.
  Now we can all sleep tonight safe and sound.
  Aside from being unique in looks, this tube is unique in sound as well.
  In a very good way.


----------



## Silent One

My attraction to this tube may find me on the couch one day. Not my own but one belonging to a woman listening intently to my every word.
   
  Therapist:_ "How did you feel when the tube rolled off the desk, breaking despite the floor being carpeted?"_


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Therapist:_ "How did you feel when the tube rolled off the desk, breaking despite the floor being carpeted?"_


 
   
  In therapy for life, I'd say!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My attraction to this tube may find me on the couch one day. Not my own but one belonging to a woman listening intently to my every word.
> 
> Therapist:_ "How did you feel when the tube rolled off the desk, breaking despite the floor being carpeted?"_


 
  "I should have bought shag...."


----------



## Silent One

What we need 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is good ol' fashion inside information! There is likely hundreds and hundreds of Military surplus USAF-596 tubes, covered under a mountain of dust in warehouses around the globe.
   
  Many brokers that deal with Military surplus supplies know or could find out. Problem is, once they sniff demand...cha-ching! Unless, you're willing to do large quantities and repeat biz.
   
  Last year, I sought a 20-lot for $50-$60. The seller said maybe $65/ea but you'll have to buy 100 minimum. Otherwise, I have to charge you $350/ea.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice tubes indeed.
   
  I like the original boxes.
   
  Unfortunately even though I expressed my interest in the last group buy, somehow I was left out.
  I may get lucky next time.


----------



## Silent One

I'm working fast and hard on locating another 20-lot. Or whatever I can find... I got your back!


----------



## rosgr63

Great, let's see what you come up with!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Great, let's see what you come up with!


 
   
  Well, these came up but could prove to be expensive with shipping and customs, of course, we'd handle it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for you:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/654873/united-electric-596-tubes


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks SO, they are sold out already.
   
  A B36 arrived yesterday, can't wait to check it out.


----------



## Silent One

WOW that was quick! Looking forward to your run with the B36...


----------



## CEE TEE

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Time to do a little mooning whilst listening to Aretha! Happy Sunday.


 
   
  Mr. Clayton SF,
   
  It is my hope to one day be able to bring some beer offerings to your tube amp museum (along with some food and my HD800) if you might let me check your wall out in person!!
   
_The condition of your staircase doesn't scare me..._




   
  C


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  +1
  Will bring whatever food/drink 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 suits the occasion.


----------



## longbowbbs

Wouldn't Clayton be surprised if we all showed up for the Flash Mob Tube party?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Wouldn't Clayton be surprised if we all showed up for the Flash Mob Tube party?


 
   
  Hahahah. Funny. I just imagined it happening (I have a vivid imagination )


----------



## 2359glenn

I wouldn't mind going sounds like a fun time
  Music beer food and good company


----------



## Clayton SF

^ ^ ^ Sounds fun. But...
   
  There's that big Butt again.
   
  ...but, I am undertaking a major spring cleaning project. Remember, BYOC--bring your own chair. 
  I am getting rid of almost everything that isn't nailed down on Monday the 18th. Junk King is coming to haul off stuff. Don't worry, no amps are involved. Just old tables, and books and bookshelves. I need to make room for more amps. The Leben is in storage at the moment and I've boxed all of the Woo Amps. Glenn's mono blocks are front and center right now.
   
  When I get my apartment together to accept guests (but first I need to buy new furniture--blame it on Ultrainferno and his most excellent listening-room setup) then I'll have a small (read s-m-a-l-l gathering with big food).
   
  Stay tuned.
   
  p.s. I just found the DNA Sonett. I forgot I owned the Sonett.


----------



## dminches

Glenn, have you tried a 596 rectifier in your amps?


----------



## Eee Pee

Clayton and I talked about that about a year ago?  We haven't gotten around to it yet and of course the more (food and beer) the merrier!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> When I get my apartment together to accept guests (but first I need to buy new furniture--blame it on Ultrainferno and his most excellent listening-room setup) then I'll have a small (read s-m-a-l-l gathering with big food).


 
   
  Sure, blame me! Phuh!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Ultrainferno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Sure, blame me! Phuh!


 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> When I get my apartment together to accept guests (but first I need to buy new furniture--I *applaud and give *_*credit *_to Ultrainferno and his most excellent listening-room setup) then I'll have a small (read s-m-a-l-l gathering with big food).


----------



## Ultrainferno

Better. Make sure it's finished in march 2014 and we're good


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Glenn, have you tried a 596 rectifier in your amps?


 
   
  And Glenn, can you shake some of your confidential sources for a line on more USAF-596 recs?


----------



## CEE TEE

2359glenn said:


> I wouldn't mind going sounds like a fun time
> Music beer food and good company




Glenn, if you make it out here to the Bay Area I will buy you more than one beer and even organize a mini-meet for you with a thread and everything!


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> Glenn, if you make it out here to the Bay Area I will buy you more than one beer and even organize a mini-meet for you with a thread and everything!


 
   
   
  I'd fly out for that meet!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Glenn, have you tried a 596 rectifier in your amps?


 
  Yes but I prefer the 3DG4 that has a lower voltage drop


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> Glenn, if you make it out here to the Bay Area I will buy you more than one beer and even organize a mini-meet for you with a thread and everything!


 
  It will have to Waite till the end of the summer. I just bought tickets so my girlfriend and me to go
  to Greece to see Stavros. I know there will be lots of food there on a diet getting ready.


----------



## CEE TEE

^Wow, that's cool.  And it makes sense!  Awesome GF.
   
  We'll check back in with you towards the end of Summer...


----------



## longbowbbs

Make sure y





2359glenn said:


> cee tee said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, if you make it out here to the Bay Area I will buy you more than one beer and even organize a mini-meet for you with a thread and everything!
> ...


make sure you have the sugar free baklava!


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ ^ ^ Sounds fun. But...
> 
> There's that big Butt again.
> 
> ...


 
  I'll be at this small gathering hopefully


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> It will have to Waite till the end of the summer. I just bought tickets so my girlfriend and me to go
> to Greece to see Stavros. I know there will be lots of food there on a diet getting ready.


 
   
  There will be *NO* Audio or Tube talk.
  Relaxing by the sea, drinking, eating, talking and beach bar music.
   
  I am on an express diet now: See food & eat it.......
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Make sure y
> make sure you have the sugar free baklava!


 
   
  That's sacrilege, no way!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Make sure y
> make sure you have the sugar free baklava!


 
  Never herd of such a thing
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> There will be *NO* Audio or Tube talk.
> Relaxing by the sea, drinking, eating, talking and beach bar music.
> 
> I am on an express diet now: See food & eat it.......
> ...


 
  I already warned my girlfriend about the tube talk .  You know what she says that we are boring.
  Oh well she still gets the sitting by the sea drinking and eating.  And we won't be talking tubes all the
  time we also will be saying stupid stuff getting in trouble.


----------



## rosgr63

I'll be wearing very dark sunglasses....................


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I'll be wearing very dark sunglasses....................


 
  So will I
  I was going to bring two pair


----------



## rosgr63

Please Glenn *DON'T* start me up...................
   
  BTW David I am very content with my 3DG4's and never tried my 596 yet.


----------



## dminches

Thanks.
   
  I haven't even begun to really break the amp it.  I need some more free time.


----------



## rosgr63

or sleepless nights??????


----------



## dminches

I can do that too!


----------



## rosgr63

What tubes and headphones are you using?


----------



## dminches

I am using a pair of TS 5998s, the 3DG4 and the TS 6SN7WGT.  The headphones are a pair of ATH W3000ANVs.  There is a slight hum which is probably due to the 5998s.


----------



## rosgr63

Have you tried your AKG-240 or Sennheiser PXC-350?


----------



## dminches

No.  Both of them are sub-par, quality wise.  Why do you ask about them specifically?


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> Glenn, if you make it out here to the Bay Area I will buy you more than one beer and even organize a mini-meet for you with a thread and everything!


 
   
  Good music, food and beer is always my idea of fun.


----------



## rosgr63

Just curious if your higher impedance headphones matched the 5998's better.


----------



## dminches

Yea, they probably will.  Do you think that is the same for 6AS7Gs?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Please Glenn *DON'T* start me up...................
> 
> BTW David I am very content with my 3DG4's and never tried my 596 yet.


 
   
  What? I went to all that trouble for nothing (so far)?!!
  just kidding


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Yea, they probably will.  Do you think that is the same for 6AS7Gs?


 
   
  Generally speaking (and not related to Glenn's amps in specific), an OTL amp is going to work better with high impedance headphones, although the main reason you hear hum from the W3000ANV is probably the combination of low impedance and high sensitivity. 
   
  I don't have any OTL headphone amps anymore, but when I did, 600 ohm Beyers were my best friend


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Yea, they probably will.  Do you think that is the same for 6AS7Gs?


 
   
   
  I think they will be similar, unless you have some of the quiet ones, Chatham, etc.
  Try another 3DG4 in case that reduces the hum.
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> What? I went to all that trouble for nothing (so far)?!!
> just kidding


 
   
  Come on please give me a breather!
  You're talking to a tube addict here.
  You have done a superb job to get them for me, thank you!
   
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Generally speaking (and not related to Glenn's amps in specific), an OTL amp is going to work better with high impedance headphones, although the main reason you hear hum from the W3000ANV is probably the combination of low impedance and high sensitivity.
> 
> I don't have any OTL headphone amps anymore, but when I did, 600 ohm Beyers were my best friend


 
   
   
  That's spot on Rob.
  Most OTL are sensitive to low impedance high sensitivity headphones.
  That's why I use my Grado's when I amp test new tubes.
  My high impedance headphones are best suited to my OTLs.


----------



## dminches

I am reading up on OTL designs to understand why they match better with high impedance headphones and speakers.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Come on please give me a breather!  You're talking to a tube addict here.
> You have done a superb job to get them for me, thank you!


 
   
  My pleasure. Now I want one and don't have any though! (yet)


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I am reading up on OTL designs to understand why they match better with high impedance headphones and speakers.


 
   


 The short answer is impedance matching.  The output impedance of an OTL tube amp is determined by the impedance of the output tube, as the output is driven directly from the tube.  In a transformer coupled design, the output transformer determines the output impedance of the amp, and one of the main purposes of an output transformer in a tube amp is to lower the output impedance.  A low impedance headphone connected to an amp with a high output impedance can have several issues including frequency response aberrations and poor driver damping.


----------



## dminches

That was said better than other sources trying to explain it.
   
  I wish I had realized when I took EE courses in college that this was something I would want to really understand and retain.


----------



## dminches

So the OTL puts out a high impedance signal?  If so, it is too much (power, current, voltage?) for a low impedance can?  
   
  I guess I am asking, why is matching important, from an electric circuit perspective?


----------



## Clayton SF

Is anyone using the Philips 5R4GYS or the Mullard GZ37 with their GLENN-OTL? I've been using the GZ37 with the D7000 with excellent results. I am thinking about getting the 5R4GYS which seems to be a favorite of some Woo Audio owners.


----------



## dminches

Clayton, I haven't tried them yet.  How do you know which rectifiers are ok in the amp?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Clayton, I haven't tried them yet.  How do you know which rectifiers are ok in the amp?


 

 Glenn told me that I could use the GZ37 with no problem but I haven't asked him about the 5R4 yet.


----------



## dminches

We should make a list....
   
  3GD4
  GZ34
  GZ37
  5U4G
  596


----------



## Ultrainferno

GZ33


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dminches said:


> We should make a list....
> 
> 3GD4
> GZ34
> ...


 
   
  David, I have already made a rectifier table posted earlier on.
  Clayton's Mono Blocks are not the same as our OTL's.
  They go through an output transformer and the output tubes are 300B's not 6AS7G/5998's.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





dminches said:


> We should make a list....
> 
> 3GD4
> GZ34
> ...


 
  I think I have a spreadsheet at home. I'll report back after work.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> My pleasure. Now I want one and don't have any though! (yet)


 
   
   
  You can have one of mine if you like until you find some more.


----------



## rosgr63

*GR OTL Amp*​  *Power  Tubes*​  *5998*​  *6AS7G*​  *Adapter*​    
   
   
   
   
  *Rectifier Tubes*
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  *3DG4*
   
 *YES*​  *YES*​  *NO*​   *GZ33/37*
   
 *YES*​  *NO*​  *NO*​   *5V3/5AU4*
   
 *YES*​  *NO*​  *NO*​   *5U8-C*
   
 *YES*​  *NO*​  *YES*​   *596*
   
 *YES*​  *NO*​  *YES*​


----------



## dminches

Stavros, do you have the 5998/6AS7G switch?  I am translating the chart to mean that you can't use a 596 with a 6AS7G.
   
  My rectifier socket is actually labeled 5U4G so I assume I can use that and probably a GZ34.
   
  Glenn, can you comment when you get a chance?


----------



## rosgr63

David, yes you can but it will have a shorter life.
   
  I have a 6SN7/12SN7 and a 6AS7G/5998 switch.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Stavros, do you have the 5998/6AS7G switch?  I am translating the chart to mean that you can't use a 596 with a 6AS7G.
> 
> My rectifier socket is actually labeled 5U4G so I assume I can use that and probably a GZ34.
> 
> Glenn, can you comment when you get a chance?


 
  You can use a 5U4GB not a 5U4G also the 596 will work it has ths same current rating as a 5U4GB
  Also the GZ33 , GZ34 , or GZ37 will work .
  I still think the 3DG4 is best then maybe the 5AU4 both these tubes can handle 350ma


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Thanks, Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

To use a 5U4GB 596 5R4 is pushing it in the OTL .  The amp 6AS7s draw 100ma each and the 6SN7 about 20
  so the electronics of the amp is drawing 220ma.  The full wave rectifier changes AC to pulsating DC in USA
  60Hz it will be 120 pulses a second. In Europe 50Hz it will be 100 pulses a second. These pulses charge the filter
  capacitors so the the amp runs on the charge on these capacitors. So when the pulse is high it has to run the
  amp plus recharge the capacitors that were running the amp when there was no pulse. So the rectifier has
  to run the amp 220ma plus recharge the filter capacitors. This will be over 270ma so even though the 5U4Gb or
  596 will work they will be maxed out. Best to use a tube that can handle 350ma
   
  3DG4 = 350ma
  5AU4 = 350ma
  GZ33 = 300ma
  GZ37 = 350ma
   
  These are the tubes I recommend


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn, thanks for recommending the GZ37. I'm happy.


----------



## 2359glenn

Even though your 300B mono blocks draw allot less off the rectifier the lower voltage drop of the GZ37
  will run the 300B and C3g at a higher voltage.  There is no problem using the 5U4G in the 300B amps     
  but I like the way the GZ37 sounds better.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> To use a 5U4GB 596 5R4 is pushing it in the OTL .  The amp 6AS7s draw 100ma each and the 6SN7 about 20
> so the electronics of the amp is drawing 220ma.  The full wave rectifier changes AC to pulsating DC in USA
> 60Hz it will be 120 pulses a second. In Europe 50Hz it will be 100 pulses a second. These pulses charge the filter
> capacitors so the the amp runs on the charge on these capacitors. So when the pulse is high it has to run the
> ...


 
   
  Glenn, this a great explanation.  I wish others who knew what you do could be so clear about this.
   
  I will get myself a GZ37 and compare it to the 3DG4.  I'll stay away from the 5U4GBs and the 596.


----------



## Clayton SF




----------



## Silent One

The "Hit Parade" coming out of San Francisco continues to delight! It helps to have pix to look at while we wait, thanks Clayton SF. When it's my turn, I want an amp with a much bigger chassis. I want Glenn to stuff a Russian Paper-in-oil cap down in there so BIG, it'll be mistaken for an oil filter
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 inside an S-Class Mercedes.
   
  Okay... we got just a little excited there, Glenn.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The "Hit Parade" coming out of San Francisco continues to delight! It helps to have pix to look at while we wait, thanks Clayton SF. When it's my turn, I want an amp with a much bigger chassis. I want Glenn to stuff a Russian Paper-in-oil cap down in there so BIG, it'll be mistaken for an oil filter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Probably need a 3 hour warm up!


----------



## dminches

Clayton, what is a decent price for a Mullard GZ37?


----------



## dminches

Tonight's listening session is sponsored by GR's OTL v4 and LCD-3s.  This is a nicer combination so far than the OTL and the ATH-W3000ANVs, probably due to the LCD-3s lower sensitivity and slightly higher impedance.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Clayton, what is a decent price for a Mullard GZ37?


 

 The decent price is ~$100 ea.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, if that's the case, Woozies are all too familiar with my 2 to 4 four warm-ups!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Tonight's listening session is sponsored by GR's OTL v4 and LCD-3s.  This is a nicer combination so far than the OTL and the ATH-W3000ANVs, probably due to the LCD-3s lower sensitivity and slightly higher impedance.


 
   
  This is great to hear! And maybe when time will afford, we can learn more about just what you were listening to (music).


----------



## Silent One

I hope to find out more about the Mystery Mullard (GZ37) later this Spring...


----------



## dminches

Patricia Barber - NIghtclub
  Lee Morgan - Sidewinder
  Blakey and the Jazz Messengers - Complete Blue Note Recordings
  Garcia / Grisman - Friend of the Devil and Arabia from self-titled album
  G / G - Sitting In Limbo
  Garcia Band - Mission in the Rain


----------



## Silent One

Wait... how did I miss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 this invite?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What a list!


----------



## dminches

Come out to the east coast and I will spin disc after disc for you.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks. My own listening session scheduled @ 2300 is still up in the air: analog or digital? Looks like it's gonna go down to the very last minute... when I actually walk into the listening room. 
   
  I usually know well in advance but tonight, I'm in a very unusual mood.


----------



## Xcalibur255

For whatever it may be worth, I was not impressed with the GZ33 in my amp, which is the same thing as a GZ37 only with slightly less voltage sag.  3DG4 is better in every way.
   
  I wouldn't try a 5R4, they are actually rated lower than a 5U4G for current and would probably arc.  I have a very nice Brimar one but I didn't want to risk killing it just to test this.


----------



## rosgr63

It looks like all these nice looking and expensive rectifiers at the end of the day may not sound any/much better than the humble 3DG4.


----------



## Silent One

While I have discerned differences with recs using the OTL, I noticed the biggest differences came when using a transformer-coupled Woo. With the OTL, much more subtle.


----------



## rosgr63

That's probably why Clayton may notice the effect of different rectifiers more on his monoblocks than his OTLs.


----------



## Silent One

Feasibility study ~
   
  ...I've been having thoughts about going to the Yard and salvaging an electric battery from a Motor scooter, Prius or other EV's and power my amp; audio rig. Not sure what my power requirements would be. But, I would think a cell from an EV outta do it!
   
  Purchase/operating costs, storage and recharging options are all things I'd like to examine a bit closer. Hatch a plan if practical and gains to be had. I'll set aside a few dollars for the studio, just in case.
   




   
  My listening session just got axed! I am congested... next attempt will be Friday night. This should explain why I'm up daydreaming instead of being in-session. Or sleep. The thought of a new gen cell from an EV has got me feelin', well... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




electric!


----------



## rosgr63

You'll need a charger and a DC to AC converter.


----------



## Silent One

Granted, I'll need a charger. And possibly skip the converter and have my next amp accept pure DC. But if it didn't, would not be a deal breaker.


----------



## Ultrainferno

A question for Glenn and everyone else: Why do I read so little about the RK60/1641 tube? Isn't it an equivalent for the 596 rectifier? It is easier to get too.
  I know Clayton SF uses one in one of his Woo's from time to time


----------



## longbowbbs

There is one up on ebay:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/VT-224-RK34-2C24-RAYTHEON-NOS-Tube-Rohre-Valvola-Lampe-TSF-Valvula-/390557376363?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5aef089f6b
   
  Not too expensive. How compatible are these to the 596? I have not heard of it before.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I don't think that one has the same specs though (RK34)


----------



## 2359glenn

The RK60 is fine in most amps but I had it arc over in the OTL I think to much current for it not as robust as the 596
  Clayton can use it in his 300B amps but I wouldn't know why when a GZ37 will sound better.
   
  The RK34 is not the same tube it is not a rectifier.


----------



## Clayton SF

I think that the 596 sounds a little better than the RK60/1641. The 596 is big soundstage--big everything. The 60 soundstage is not as big and the sound is a little dryer. At least with classical music. I only have one adapter so I have not tried them on Glenn's mono blocks.
   
  I have had a problem with the metal caps on some RK60 tubes. Several of them came off and it is a pain (for me at least) to solder them back on and glue them to the tube so they are unusable. Fortunately I told the distributor about it and he mailed me a replacement and told me to trash the defective one. It wasn't worth sending it back.
   
  Happy Saturday! I'm listening to Janine Jansen. She's not bad to look at either.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Happy Saturday! I'm listening to Janine Jansen. She's not bad to look at either.


 
   
  she's one of my 2013 discoveries so far. thanks to you!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The RK60 is fine in most amps but I had it arc over in the OTL I think to much current for it not as robust as the 596
> Clayton can use it in his 300B amps but I wouldn't know why when a GZ37 will sound better.
> 
> The RK34 is not the same tube it is not a rectifier.


 
   
  thanks Glenn!


----------



## longbowbbs

Thanks for the education Glenn! BTW, the 5U4G to 596 adapter arrived. Thank you! This way I can have twin 596's with the CSP2+ and Taboo....


----------



## dminches

I will get into more details later, but we had a mini meet today with a slew of amps and headphones including a new Decware Taboo Mkiii, the prior Taboo model, a Decware CSP2, a Woo Audio 6SE and glenn's otl.  The cans included LCD-2.2s, LCD-3s, Senn 800s, and Beyer T1s.
   
  There was a lot of good music and a lot of good sound but the best of the best was the Glenn OTL and the T1. This combination was fantastic.
   
  Now I have to go out and get a pair.


----------



## longbowbbs

Man, I can never get right with the T1's.....


----------



## wolfetan44

One of Glenn's amps or a UM Miracle.. Decisions


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> One of Glenn's amps or a UM Miracle.. Decisions


 
  Easy....Both..


----------



## wolfetan44

longbowbbs said:


> wolfetan44 said:
> 
> 
> > One of Glenn's amps or a UM Miracle.. Decisions
> ...


I knew that was coming..


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> [Janine Jansen} is one of my 2013 discoveries so far. thanks to you!


 
  You're welcome. Perhaps you'll be able to see her perform live in concert.
  Perhaps we'll both get to go see her perform. 
  Part 1:




  Part 2:


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I could get a lower end CIEM and get his OTL amp too. Cut CIEM, maybe a Westone 4? Good idea?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Westone 4 is OK...I would try the Shure 535's also. Similar price point, different presentation. 1964ears Quad is a decent CIEM option.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Custom Cosmic ears. 4 balanced armatures for 300€!


----------



## wolfetan44

Are the cosmic ears any good?


----------



## Ultrainferno

No one has the BA4 yet. It will be available in a few weeks. I'm third on the list. I was just making a point that ciems don't have to cost fortunes.


----------



## Frank I

Gleen amo that he built for Dminches souded excellent with the HD800 and the T1. Very powerful with great dynamics.


----------



## wolfetan44

Ice just come to terms with something. I travel 5-8 times a year, I don't need an expensive portable
 How about a Beyer DT1350 and get a Glenn OTL amp?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Ice just come to terms with something. I travel 5-8 times a year, I don't need an expensive portable
> How about a Beyer DT1350 and get a Glenn OTL amp?


 
  I really liked the 1350's. I sold them, but I enjoyed them very much. I have never heard any of Glenn's amps, but several people who's opinions I trust are very impressed with his products.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I got the plan! Getting Heir Audio IEM 5.0's then in June getting one of Glenns OTL's. Plan done.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Has anyone removed the caps on the C3G tubes by any chance?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Has anyone removed the caps on the C3G tubes by any chance?


 

 I haven't the tools nor the skill.
   
  The C3g looks wonderful under that black satin metal shield.
  Triple mica, gold pins and gold grid.

   
  C3m with shield removed. For size reference of the enclosed tube to the shielded C3g.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I will get into more details later, but we had a mini meet today with a slew of amps and headphones including a new Decware Taboo Mkiii, the prior Taboo model, a Decware CSP2, a Woo Audio 6SE and glenn's otl.  The cans included LCD-2.2s, LCD-3s, Senn 800s, and Beyer T1s.
> 
> There was a lot of good music and a lot of good sound but the best of the best was the Glenn OTL and the T1. This combination was fantastic.
> 
> Now I have to go out and get a pair.


 
   
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> Gleen amo that he built for Dminches souded excellent with the HD800 and the T1. Very powerful with great dynamics.


 
   
   
  Glenn builds one of the best OTL amps and loves this hobby as much as the most dedicated of us.
  Problem is he loves and enjoys building amps way too much.
   
  L I hope you slow him down a bit and get him mown the lawn.


----------



## Frank I

LOL I hope he slow down only after he build my amp. I was impressed with  Glenns work I ordered one for my hd800. Now the agony of the wait lOL but I understand. they sound incredible and Glenn a great guy.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn never listens to me anyway so don't worry!!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  On the C3m, Shigeki Yamamoto reports better sonics with shield removed. Speaking of which, if possible with adapter, I'd like to try the C3m inside my OTL amp.


----------



## longbowbbs

Other than for protecting the glass, what is the purpose of the shield?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Other than for protecting the glass, what is the purpose of the shield?


 
   
  If I understood well it's to keep the heat inside


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Interesting. What is it about that type of tube that requires more heat than a regular unshielded tube?


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Interesting. What is it about that type of tube that requires more heat than a regular unshielded tube?


 
  Sounds cold... analytical... sterile...
   
  Or it filters out RFI.
   
  http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-tube-shield.htm


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks Eee Pee! That was a nice and concise article.


----------



## Eee Pee

This internet thing is pretty sweet!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> This internet thing is pretty sweet!


 
  I read on the internet that the internet might catch on.....It must be true!  Seriously, there is so much to learn about tubes it boggles me sometimes.


----------



## dminches

The internet has cost me a lot of money.


----------



## Clayton SF

The heater of the C3g is 6.3 volts.
  The heater of the C3m is 20 volts.
   
  The naked C3g with gold pins.

   
  I cleaned my apartment today. Almost-spring cleaning.
  Out with the Leben.
  In with the Glenn MBs and OTL.


----------



## Frank I

Clayton I like the looks of the room. Just curious if you tried those speakers away from the wall and also away form the side walls also. usually you get a vivid presentation. I use to set my speakers up in my 20X13.5 room 3ft from the side wall and 4ft out from the back wall amnd I sat 6ft away and had a pretty amazing osundstage not sure about your room size though. Looks fantastic by the way, But I am curious to how they soundstage setup like that, Interesting setup. Thise monoblocs look fabulous


----------



## Clayton SF

Hello Frank. Thank you for the compliments.
   
  My apartment is such that I can only bring the speakers out about 1.5 from the wall. I also don't turn them up much because of the neighbors so the sound stage is pretty wonderful at low volume. When my neighbors are gone I pull the speakers out about 3 feet from the wall and turn it up a little bit. My listening room is 15' x 14'.
   
  This is what the space looks like behind the right speaker.


----------



## dminches

Which setting should I use on Glenn's OTL with a 2399, the 5998 or the 6AS7G?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hello Frank. Thank you for the compliments.
> 
> My apartment is such that I can only bring the speakers out about 1.5 from the wall. I also don't turn them up much because of the neighbors so the sound stage is pretty wonderful at low volume. When my neighbors are gone I pull the speakers out about 3 feet from the wall and turn it up a little bit. My listening room is 15' x 14'.
> 
> This is what the space looks like behind the right speaker.


 
  ICurious how amny watts are the GMB monoblocks they look cool.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The heater of the C3g is 6.3 volts.
> The heater of the C3m is 20 volts.
> 
> The naked C3g with gold pins.
> ...


 
   
  Clayton, what are you using for a primary source these days? I know you are using a lot of vinyl, any digital or anything with your PWT?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I am curious how many watts are the GMB monoblocks they look cool.


 
  Yes. Glenn builds incredibly beautiful looking and sounding amps.
  They are 8wpc.


----------



## Frank I

Thats good power for efficient speakers I seen those new Tektron speakers the 2500.00 ones look fantastic ansd would be a nice combo with those GMB. I need to save some more to get a 2 channel rig again. What tube you running in those


----------



## Clayton SF

any 5v. full-wave rectifier.
  Glenn marks the socket 5U4 or GZ37 (I prefer the GZ37) rectifier
  UX-281 half-wave rectifier for mA bias
  JJ 300B power tube
   
  Below with the 596 tube and adapter from Glenn


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> any 5v. full-wave rectifier.
> Glenn marks the socket 5U4 or GZ37 (I prefer the GZ37) rectifier
> UX-281 half-wave rectifier for mA bias
> JJ 300B power tube
> ...


 
  so its a 300B amp Very cool. Now you need to source some Western Electric 300B


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





frank i said:


> so its a 300B amp Very cool. Now you need to source some Western Electric 300B


 

 Eek! One WE 300B tube would cost much more than one of Glenn's mono blocks! So... since I've never seen nor heard a Western Electric 300B, I, sadly, must leave it that way.  However I'd like to try a Psvane 300B.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I cleaned my apartment today. Almost-spring cleaning.
> Out with the Leben.
> In with the Glenn MBs and OTL.


 
   
  As always, wonderfully presented. I really like that picture on the wall. Wished it rain more... by the way, Karen Mok approves of your speakers' decor.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Eek! One WE 300B tube would cost much more than one of Glenn's mono blocks! So... since I've never seen nor heard a Western Electric 300B, I, sadly, must leave it that way.  However I'd like to try a Psvane 300B.


 
  LOL they are ridiculous but the best I heard them once in the Cary mono block. They sound fantastic but I have not heard any other except the shuguang in a dared amp . The psvane are shuggies but getting great review form people who have heard them. Anytime you want opinion gfo tom the audio asylum and pop the question in the tube asylum and you will get some input. In there Michael Samra has a good source in China named Clark where  you can buy them from at deep discounts. I lost the guys email when i switched computers but ping michael samra and  he can give you the source . The guys is ultra  reliable accoridn gto Michael an d I respect Michael opinion also. Very knowledgeable tube guy.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> As always, wonderfully presented. I really like that picture on the wall. Wished it rain more... by the way, Karen Mok approves of your speakers' decor.


 
  Thanks. I am working towards getting my apartment fully furnished so that I can hold minimeets. Poor shipsupt had to BHOC (bring his own chair). What a sport, I'd say. And you and I, of course, had our own little minimeet BU (before Ultrainferno).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  A-h-h-h...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 in-session in San Francisco. Isn't there a song about that? Guess not,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but that won't stop me from revisiting.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I read on the internet that the internet might catch on.....It must be true!  Seriously, there is so much to learn about tubes it boggles me sometimes.


 
   
  Eric the more I read about tubes the more I realize how little I know.
   
   
  As a side note there is a metal 6SN7 namely the Brasilia 6SN7M.
  Lot of people love it, I find it average.
   
  What's inside the metal shield?
  A 6CG7 soldered on an octal base.
  A 6CG7 is the 9pin version of the 6SN7.
  Glenn has made me some nice 6CG7 to 6SN7 adapters so I can use them instead of a 6SN7.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Eric the more I read about tubes the more I realize how little I know.
> 
> 
> As a side note there is a metal 6SN7 namely the Brasilia 6SN7M.
> ...


 
   
   
  How do you find the 6CG7? I've found a pile of them in the tube hoard (still sorting them out).


----------



## rosgr63

There is a large variety like the 6SN7. Some are better than others.
  I have to look into my notes, I can't remember much, sorry.


----------



## Neogeo333

Tried a couple of 6cg7, didnt like them that much.  Even the much talked about Mazda ones.  Prefer the sound of 6sn7 and 6f8g.  One thing they got going is that now they are cheap.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> A 6CG7 is the 9pin version of the 6SN7.
> Glenn has made me some nice 6CG7 to 6SN7 adapters so I can use them instead of a 6SN7.


 
   
  Ha.  Glenn made me some 6SN7 to 6CG7 adapters so I could use 6SN7s instead of 6CG7s.  He did the same for 6F8Gs.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I am glad I am not alone. Still, it is really interesting to see all the different versions of these tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

A quick FYI about C3g tubes and their shields:  I asked Jacmusic if they could remove them prior to selling and was told they don't have time to do it.  I thought I would pass that along to save time for others who might have been interested in that.
   
  I'm currently trying to find out how you remove them yourself without breaking them, no references whatsoever on the internet so far.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> A quick FYI about C3g tubes and their shields:  I asked Jacmusic if they could remove them prior to selling and was told they don't have time to do it.  I thought I would pass that along to save time for others who might have been interested in that.
> 
> I'm currently trying to find out how you remove them yourself without breaking them, no references whatsoever on the internet so far.


 

 I didn't know that you also own an amp that uses the C3g. Great!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> A quick FYI about C3g tubes and their shields:  I asked Jacmusic if they could remove them prior to selling and was told they don't have time to do it.  I thought I would pass that along to save time for others who might have been interested in that.
> 
> I'm currently trying to find out how you remove them yourself without breaking them, no references whatsoever on the internet so far.


 
   
  Yamamoto removes the shields on their Siemens C3m tube. I'll send Shigeki Yamamoto an email right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, as I'm preparing for a fresh and elegant bowl of Jasmine Dragon Phoenix Pearls. I wonder if Glenn has performed this act already... let's ask.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I didn't know that you also own an amp that uses the C3g. Great!


 

 At the moment I don't actually.  I am, however, very glad that the idea worked out well for your monoblocks.
   
  Jac tells me removing them isn't hard, so perhaps the ticket is to just make the attempt and see what comes of it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yamamoto removes the shields on their Siemens C3m tube. I'll send Shigeki Yamamoto an email right now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 To be honest I'm a little scared to find out what Yamamoto Soundcraft charges for their bare C3g tubes.  Thanks for asking them though, I guess we will see.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   I asked both Yamamoto-san & Glenn on tips for removal - I too, am curious. Also, it is my hope that a hard working man like Glenn will give us a heads-up on when the studio will shut down for vacation. This way, I'll know when to stand back in line.


----------



## Frank I

​ 

​ [size=1.231em] Yamamoto Sound Craft Vacuum tube type headphone / speaker amplifier HA-03

 
  
   

 *Time left:*_   $1,762.50

  Buy It Now





Free shipping

_​

[/size] 


  

  
  
  

 



  This is using that funky tube and is likw 1200.oo for the amp which is used mostly for 50 ohm headphones


----------



## dminches

Tyrell, dd you see my question about using 2399s in Glenn's OTL?  Which position should I put the switch, 5988 or 6AS7G?


----------



## Xcalibur255

5998.  The 2399 is a 5998 electrically.  It can be either position really it just doesn't sound quite as good in the 6AS7 position, would be as though there was no mod.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> To be honest I'm a little scared to find out what Yamamoto Soundcraft charges for their bare C3g tubes.  Thanks for asking them though, I guess we will see.


 
  You can buy them pretty cheep on E-Bay so buy 4 or 6 and try popping them apart if a couple break oh well
  you still will have some tubes for the amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I asked both Yamamoto-san & Glenn on tips for removal - I too, am curious. Also, it is my hope that a hard working man like Glenn will give us a heads-up on when the studio will shut down for vacation. This way, I'll know when to stand back in line.


 
  On June 28 I leave for Greece but the hotel has Internet I think.  If not Stavros might let me on his computer to post
  I will not be working on amps that week unless Stavros has a amp to be modded or fixed while I am there.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Has anyone removed the caps on the C3G tubes by any chance?


 
   
  I completely fail to see the point of this. Is there any?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





oskari said:


> I completely fail to see the point of this. Is there any?


 

 Aesthetics. 
   
  The tube was meant originally for industrial use, where EMI/RFI was probably an issue hence the shielding.  In somebody's home I see no harm in removing it.  The tube itself is quite striking to look at considering the premium construction techniques it employs.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm very excited about this vacation for you and your other half. And Starvos, too! I'll keep checking the Tea tins to see if I have saved enough. And will consult you for an amp purchase or Tube Phono stage by May Day or post Fourth of July weekend. I know you'll need lead time.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Aesthetics.


 
   
  OK. I get it now. Thanks.
   
  In my opinion, the tube is industrial art in any way you look at it.


----------



## Silent One

Absolutely! Some nights, while listening, I'll trans out looking at tube glow.


----------



## Silent One

Posting what I've got, while I consider what to extract next from the Studio.


----------



## Clayton SF

I really like the way the C3g looks with it's black satin shield and cream colored industrial printing. I'm leaving mine on.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> On June 28 I leave for Greece but the hotel has Internet I think.  If not Stavros might let me on his computer to post
> I will not be working on amps that week unless Stavros has a amp to be modded or fixed while I am there.


 
   
   
  Internet?
   
  Checking email?
   
  Fixing amps?
   
  Forget it!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Keep us posted


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The perfect host.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I really like the way the C3g looks with it's black satin shield and cream colored industrial printing. I'm leaving mine on.


 
   
  Yes, the magic of Black. I like it! Or is it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "Black magic?" Can't wait to get meters. And the "2359glenn|studio" badge.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The perfect host.


 
   
   
  Thanks SO.
   
  I'll try my best.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You're welcome. By the way, I was just fixin' to go to bed - I really am trying to retire before sunrise more frequently. Anyway, I was wondering if Glenn ever thought about building an electrostatic amp for Stax cans. 
   
  Hmmm... if he were truly interested, I could fund his prototype. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He'll be waking up shortly...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Internet?
> 
> Checking email?
> 
> ...


 
  Well Silent One I guess it is silence from me once I get to Greece.


----------



## rosgr63

I have a friend who is very keen, very good idea indeed.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I know you're getting ready for work - probably enjoying breakfast, Head-Fi and The New York Times... or USA Today, I don't judge. But, have you thought of building an electrostatic amp for Stax headphones? I was saying earlier that if you were, I'd fund your prototype.




   
  No need for your silence. rosgr63 & Greece is full of LIFE.


----------



## Silent One

Everyone have a most brilliant day! Time for me to attempt going to bed early... and dream sweetly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




over audio.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I know you're getting ready for work - probably enjoying breakfast, Head-Fi and The New York Times... or USA Today, I don't judge. But, have you thought of building an electrostatic amp for Stax headphones? I was saying earlier that if you were, I'd fund your prototype.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I already have had people ask me for a Stax amp. The first person I sold a OTL to asked he went and bought a Stax setup and said the OTL and HD800s sound better.
  The high B+ and B- and having it brought to your head scars me if there is a parts failure.  I am thinking about it though. I really have to many amps to build
  to have the time to design something new.
   
   No need for your silence. rosgr63 & Greece is full of LIFE. 
   rosgr63 is saying there will be no time to go on head fi.      Good food drink we already have the good looking girls  looks like a party to me


----------



## john57

[size=medium]Since I have a Stax setup I did listened to several Stax tube amps at the RMAF. My own feeling is that I am using my Melos pre-amp to drive my remaining Stax headphone meaning I already have a tube front end for the Stax. I also think that the current good dynamic headphones of today can come close to the quality of my Stax.  This year I purchase a new set of wonderful headphones that may be a contradiction to some but works for me. Once I find the time I write a review. I also attained a pair of Emotiva Airmotiv6 speaker monitors.  These monitors’ uses a form of ribbon tweeters called folded AMT which is somewhat like the original Heil Air Motion Transformer. This in turn makes the treble very clear and detailed. It uses the principle of “squeezing the air” instead of “pushing” against the air. [/size]


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I already have had people ask me for a Stax amp. The first person I sold a OTL to asked he went and bought a Stax setup and said the OTL and HD800s sound better.
> The high B+ and B- and having it brought to your head scars me if there is a parts failure.  I am thinking about it though. I really have to many amps to build
> to have the time to design something new.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I will be good.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Well at least I will try to be good for a couple of hours......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






   
  Or is that way too long??????????
   
  I am sure we'll find a couple of hours to  have a look at some tubes and that will be it, no more.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for your insight. I'm looking forward to working with a rejuvenated MOT upon your return. My tea tins have been slowly filling and it's my responsibility to determine the best destination for this cash.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey, Ultrainferno--do you feel like visiting Greece in the future?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey, Ultrainferno--do you feel like visiting Greece in the future?


 
   
  Actually planning a trip to Cyprus. I'm sure I could jump over


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I will be good.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  We will be good while looking at the tubes then back in trouble


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Actually planning a trip to Cyprus. I'm sure I could jump over


 
   
   
  When is that?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> When is that?


 
   
  PM'ed!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> PM'ed!


 
   
   
  Thanks, the world is an oyster!


----------



## hodgjy

I've said it before, but I'll say it again.  You're my hero.  I think you won Head-Fi.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


>


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I've said it before, but I'll say it again.  You're my hero.  I think you won Head-Fi.


 

 Thanks. I'm getting new furniture either this weekend or next month (pending available delivery dates). When I've settle in once again--I'll take more pics. I'm setting up a listening room. I've got to figure out how to run 10 headphone amps simultaneously without taxing San Francisco's grid.


----------



## Frank I

10 amps Claytion. Now you need nine more headphones. One for each amp


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





frank i said:


> 10 amps Claytion. Now you need nine more headphones. One for each amp


 
  ClaytonSF was a trooper last year when he brought three amps to a head fi meet up.  And they were all heavy ones that he had to carry down the stairs in his apartment!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





daigo said:


> ClaytonSF was a trooper last year when he brought three amps to a head fi meet up.  And they were all heavy ones that he had to carry down the stairs in his apartment!


 
  Clayton a great guy.  He is an absolute asset to this community and I always enjoy looking at his gear and post. I still wonder how he uses all nine of those amps. I barely have time for my three amps and two have been stagnant but I am determined to add a couple more amps and cant wait for Glenn to build my ample


----------



## Clayton SF

I rotate amps, actually. I listen to one amp at a time for about a week or so. Then I replace it with another. I have a few amps boxed up and in my closet and a few on display all tubed up and ready to listen to. I am hoping to have two listening stations--one in the living room and one in the bedroom. In the daylight hours I listen to a speaker amp and in the evening I listen to a headphone amp. I am really more of an amp guy than a headphone guy, meaning that it is more satisfying to listening to the different amps than different headphones. But, don't get me wrong--I do love the headphones when I put them on--it is just an entirely different world when I am in the loud speaker realm or immersed in the headphone environment.
   
  I rotate speaker amps about once a month.


----------



## hodgjy

Some people tube roll.  Clayton amp rolls.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Some people tube roll.  Clayton amp rolls.


 
   
   
  That's nice, I like it!
   
  Hope to test my B36 newcomer this weekend.
  This is the 12V version of the B65.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





daigo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I've said it before, but I'll say it again.  You're my hero.  I think you won Head-Fi.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've had the pleasure of being a guest in his home. Above and beyond the fantastic collection, he's a terrific host and wonderful person. And then... _there's San Francisco._ What's not to love?!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> That's nice, I like it!
> 
> *Hope to test my B36 newcomer this weekend.*
> This is the 12V version of the B65.


 
   
  Do it... do it now! Ok, I'll wait.


----------



## rosgr63

Sorry SO it's been inside an unopened box for 11 days now!
   
  How bad is that?
   
  My attention drifted over to some other tubes I had to return back to a seller who manipulated the test results.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> My attention drifted over to some other tubes I had to return back to a seller who manipulated the test results.


 
   
  Care to post his name to help us avoid him?


----------



## rosgr63

David, I am watching him like a hawk!
   
  Listening to Club Des Belugas as we speak.


----------



## Silent One

We appreciate your vigilance!


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks for the kinds words, everyone.
   
  Well today I went to CB2 and bought some furniture. I was either going to buy an Ultrasone EDITION 10 Headphone or furnish my living room, bathroom, and bedroom (a bed, a couch, two bookshelves, a small coffee table, and bathroom shelves). I chose to furnish my apartment. Delivery date is March 30. Thank goodness I got Glenn's mono blocks before I decided to furnish the Taj Mahal of Amps.


----------



## Silent One

You made the right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





choice.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks for the kinds words, everyone.
> 
> Well today I went to CB2 and bought some furniture. I was either going to buy an Ultrasone EDITION 10 Headphone or furnish my living room, bathroom, and bedroom (a bed, a couch, two bookshelves, a small coffee table, and bathroom shelves). I chose to furnish my apartment. Delivery date is March 30. Thank goodness I got Glenn's mono blocks before I decided to furnish the Taj Mahal of Amps.


 
  um...Priorities..??  hmmm....I have heard of them....


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks for the kinds words, everyone.
> 
> Well today I went to CB2 and bought some furniture. I was either going to buy an Ultrasone EDITION 10 Headphone or furnish my living room, bathroom, and bedroom (a bed, a couch, two bookshelves, a small coffee table, and bathroom shelves). I chose to furnish my apartment. Delivery date is March 30. Thank goodness I got Glenn's mono blocks before I decided to furnish the Taj Mahal of Amps.


 
  better to buy the furniture  than buy that headphone clayton because not too many are fans of it according to everything I read about them.So when are you throwing the party. LOL


----------



## john57

I agree that get new furniture is a great idea. I have tried several Ultrasone headphones at the RMAF and I would never ever get one.


----------



## CEE TEE

daigo said:


> ClaytonSF was a trooper last year when he brought three amps to a head fi meet up.  And they were all heavy ones that he had to carry down the stairs in his apartment!




I now know how much it takes to bring tube amps and DACs to a meet...the effort that people take to come share gear is the spirit of the meets.

I'm looking forward to getting some ideas from Clayton's headphone amp listening station.

Instead of "Roll Opamps", Clayton's custom sig should say something like "Roll OTL amps"?

High on my list now is to listen to some of Glenn's amps...was just too worked up at the meet Clayton came to to listen to much!

I think it takes hearing some of these amps in person to believe what they can do...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> High on my list now is to listen to some of Glenn's amps...was just too worked up at the meet Clayton came to to listen to much!


 
  April brings showers. Stay tuned. Bring your headphones if you want.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





frank i said:


> better to buy the furniture  than buy that headphone clayton because not too many are fans of it according to everything I read about them.So when are you throwing the party. LOL


 
   
  Well they sound great with the right amp, I like my Ed 10 a lot.
   
  I also like my Ed9 (Balanced), HFI 780 (Balanced), and PRO2500 with a RAL cable.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Well they sound great with the right amp, I like my Ed 10 a lot.
> 
> I also like my Ed9 (Balanced), HFI 780 (Balanced), and PRO2500 with a RAL cable.


 
  I was just going with what i have read and glad you do like them.  They aren ot inexpensive for sure and I have not heard them nor any Ultrasone for that matter. Maybe in NNY I will listen to some at the meet 4/20


----------



## rosgr63

Frank if you get the chance try them with a good SS amp.
   
  They don't suit tube amps well, but I haven't tried them with Glenn's OTL yet.
   
  Like with many things it's a love or hate relationship.
  This is my opinion with my gear, not necessarily valid for all gear.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Frank if you get the chance try them with a good SS amp.
> 
> They don't suit tube amps well, but I haven't tried them with Glenn's OTL yet.
> 
> ...


 
  I will take your advice and maybe they will be at that meet but I wouldnt mind hearing some Ultrasone when there


----------



## Clayton SF

I own a Beta 22 built by Corey Warner of SWA. Have you heard your Ed 10 on a B22?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I own a Beta 22 built by Corey Warner of SWA. Have you heard your Ed 10 on a B22?


 
   
  Not everyone has the luxury you have C 
  I haven't listened to that headphone yet, all I know is it looks so bad it's only to be used in the absolute dark 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

   
  Good thing different people like different things. And are looks even important at all? (they are to me)
  Anyway, have a good weekend everyone, I have a bottle of Glenmorangie 12 that is screaming for some attention 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit. Btw, I found a huge stock of almost 200 C3G tubes. if anyone's interested (Do I hear a "group buy" request? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## daigo

That photoshopped pictured of the Ed 10's is doing it no favors in the looks department.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I own a Beta 22 built by Corey Warner of SWA. Have you heard your Ed 10 on a B22?


 
   
   

   No sorry but alota has and liked them a lot.
   
  I hope David is attending the NY meet.

   
   
  Quote: 





daigo said:


> That photoshopped pictured of the Ed 10's is doing it no favors in the looks department.


 
   
   
  Is this any better?


----------



## Clayton SF

^ I own a B22 and from your picture I see you have a B29! Awesome.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ I own a B22 and from your picture I see you have a B29! Awesome.


 
   
  It's the drink, I know it has such a soothing effect............


----------



## wolfetan44

Is the OTL amp Glenn's known for good for all impedances? I would want it to work well with a Grado, I think thats the only low impedance headphone I would have..


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Is the OTL amp Glenn's known for good for all impedances? I would want it to work well with a Grado, I think thats the only low impedance headphone I would have..


 
  It sounded good with the hd800 and T1 and also the lcd 2 and 3 played well . Ideally OTL do better with high impedance cans rather than low


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Iknow that part. But theres always exceptions to a rule


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Iknow that part. But theres always exceptions to a rule


 
  well the exception is that the planars were OK but Dminches said th AT3000anv had a slight hum and they are lower impedance than the lcd2 and the Grado is lower even still so not sure it would accomplish what you want it to,. We did not have Grado on hand and the only low impedance can tried were the lcd2 and lc3. Really sang with both the Beyer and the Sennheiser.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I may have to use my O2 then.. Maybe I'll see if I can get a hybrid. He said he'd be up to make one..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Is the OTL amp Glenn's known for good for all impedances? I would want it to work well with a Grado, I think thats the only low impedance headphone I would have..


 
   
  At one time, he tested a pair of 32 ohm Grado's on my amp when the output impedance was 49 ohms. Said it sounded fine. Since then, he lowered the output impedance of my amp to 21 ohms. I run Denon's at 25 ohms, HD650's at 300 ohms.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Is the OTL amp Glenn's known for good for all impedances? I would want it to work well with a Grado, I think thats the only low impedance headphone I would have..


 
   
  I find my amp to perform very well with low impedance phones.  If they are high sensitivity you might get some hum.  There was just a whisper of it with my K701s, I tried my tv phones (JVC HARX900) and there was definitely hum there.  Even then the JVCs sounded good, much better than they do on anything else I could play them on.  But if you are picky about hum it is something to keep in mind. 
   
  OTL amps by their nature work better with high impedance loads, but this particular design has very good drive even with low impedance loads.  On paper the K701 was never a good match for my amp but I thought they sounded amazing together, I actually wish more people could hear this I think even K701 haters would be surprised.  Right up to the day they got blown up I never stopped being impressed.
   
  The amp drives the 50ohm LCD-2s with finesse and authority too, no hum and no sense at all of them being underdamped or underpowered.  The dynamics are amazing.  I also (just a couple of days ago actually) decided to get a more traditional dancing partner for the OTL in the form of some 600 ohm Beyer DT880s.  Even without break-in the combo already sounds good and it was improving by the hour as I was playing them last night.


----------



## Clayton SF

I run the D7000 at 25 ohms and the DT990 at 600 ohms on the OTL and both are incredible sounding. The Denons go way down deep. The Denons of the Deep! I am also using two GZ37 rectifiers on Glenn's mono blocks.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Edit. Btw, I found a huge stock of almost 200 C3G tubes. if anyone's interested (Do I hear a "group buy" request?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Can you give me any more details?  I certainly don't think we need that many but if the pricing is good it is worth looking into.  It would also be good to know the production origin and maker (Siemens, Telefunken, ITT-Lorenz), some of these tubes are from the German Post lifetime buyout production run and some are military stock.  In this case the military stock is the less desirable stock to have contrary to normal tube logic.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'll do a group-buy even though I don't have a tube amp. For $5 to $15, I'm in.


----------



## Silent One

Well stated Xcalibur255; Clayton SF. I was actually surprised how good the Denon's @ 25 ohms sounded (behaved?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Despite, several around Head-Fi telling me I was wasting time because of the whole impedance mis-match thang. Both Glenn's amp and the Denon deserve credit 'cause the pairing never stumbled. I believe in trying things out for myself anyway...
   
  Also had a chance to run DT-880's @ 600 ohm; K701's @ 60 ohms(I think?).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If you're not careful, you're gonna end up a Tube addict. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tell him, rosgr63!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  How is your run with the LCD-2, by the way... forgot to ask, emerging?


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well stated Xcalibur255; Clayton SF. I was actually surprised how good the Denon's @ 25 ohms sounded (behaved?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  How is the DT880 with his OTL? I have a DT880/600 that I love dearly, but I need a different amp from this O2. JUST REALIZED. Ah, darn. I need a new DAC. I guess no more new headphones this year.


----------



## wolfetan44

Any recommendations on a DAC? I want something thats balanced.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> How is your run with the LCD-2, by the way... forgot to ask, emerging?


 
  Getting better, and thanks for asking!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  They take longer to break-in than I was led to believe, once the imaging finally locked in I stopped hating them.  Learning how to wear them right was also an adventure.  My listening sessions are getting pretty good with them now, I don't regret buying them anymore.  The weird resonance on piano is still there, reduced but present.  I came to the conclusion it is from existing issues in the recording being amplified by internal resonance in the leather earpads at certain frequencies.  Other owners have noted the same effect.
   
  I did break down and order a cable from Frank.  I don't believe cables improve sound quality, but the stock cable is heavy and clumsy and I wanted to get something lighter that didn't slap my shoulders when I move my head.  That, and the stock phone plug sticks out a country mile from the jack, the weight of the cable pulls down on it so hard it causes contact pressure issues in the plug if I don't prop the cord up.  Franks cables have a nice short VIAblue jack so both problems get solved by a reasonably priced cable. 
   
  His lead time is a whopping 9 weeks sadly.  I would have ordered anyway but it would have been good to know before hand.
   
  Trying the Beyers out for the first time was a stark contrast..... they weight literally nothing compared to the LCDs, it's almost silly.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> How is the DT880 with his OTL? I have a DT880/600 that I love dearly, but I need a different amp from this O2. JUST REALIZED. Ah, darn. I need a new DAC. I guess no more new headphones this year.


 

 They're brand new so I cannot judge yet but my first listens were positive even with the cans being green.  My initial reaction was "why do people say these are bright?"  They are actually surprisingly similar to the LCD-2 in tonal balance on my setup, aside from the stronger presence bump in the upper treble region with gives a bit more sparkle and the obviously large difference in deep bass energy.  I checked my sibilance tracks and found them more forgiving than the K701s were overall.
   
  On paper these phones are ideal for an OTL.  I can say they are dead silent, no hum and even my noisy 5998 tube doesn't get its sqeaks and hums passed through on the Beyers.
   
  I'm really tempted to re-try the 6BL7s in the output sockets, I think they will fare better with 10x more impedance load and might sound great.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Green? Picture?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Green? Picture?


 

 Green meaning unused/not broken in.  It will be a couple hundred hours of use before they can be judged fairly.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  OOOH. I'm not sure if I should feel stupid or not..


----------



## Clayton SF

Nah. Don't feel stupid because you're not.
  There are so many terms thrown around here--with good intentions to communicate of course--some are bound to fly over your head. A lot has flown over me and under me since I joined Head-Fi.


----------



## Silent One

With patience, audio can be fun and rewarding...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Whew!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Honestly, I thought it was good but not sure if the cans were my tea. I really think I needed to live with them for a couple of moons. I enjoyed the silent background they provided, that was YUM! One thing that I practice often is revisiting gears when I'm able. One's emotions and life experiences can change impressions on a dime!
   
  Take the HE-6 for example. I was fortunate to audition them for a couple of moons some months apart. And with some of the same gear in place, my experience differed with the same member's HE-6. It happens...


----------



## wolfetan44

Any recommendation of DACs that go well with his OTL amp?


----------



## Silent One

Not sure which balanced DAC purchase would leave your budget balanced. I'm currently using a kicked-up W4S DAC-1 built to DAC-2 specs. And I like it! May get something later this year, as I use to roll DACs not long ago...


----------



## wolfetan44

Great, $999 each, no thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Too much, any good balanced DACs for $600? Also, rolling DACs? Not a fan of rolling amps like Clayton?


----------



## dminches

Just catching up....
   
  As others have said, the only hum I have heard are with very sensitive cans, like the ATHW3000s.  But my amp isn't even broken in.
   
  Tyrell, can you list the different power tubes you have tried?  So far I have only used 5998s.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Not really a big power tube roller.  The 5998 is very much to my liking so I never bothered to try the 7236 or some of the other variants.  I have rolled a few 6AS7G with my favorite being the Chathams, and a pair of Chatham 6080W which were nicer than the reputation of the 6080 would lead one to believe.
   
  There is a dedicated thread for 6AS7G family tubes with some useful posts if you haven't already stopped by there.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here


----------



## Ultrainferno

The stash of C3/ are the real Siemens. Price would be around 30€ however :s


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Can you give me any more details?  I certainly don't think we need that many but if the pricing is good it is worth looking into.  It would also be good to know the production origin and maker (Siemens, Telefunken, ITT-Lorenz), some of these tubes are from the German Post lifetime buyout production run and some are military stock.  In this case the military stock is the less desirable stock to have contrary to normal tube logic.


 
  Why would the military Siemens not be as good as the German Post Siemens? Aren't they the same tube package and sold differently?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Why would the military Siemens not be as good as the German Post Siemens? Aren't they the same tube package and sold differently?


 
  Typically mil tubes are built to tougher standards.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> The stash of C3/ are the real Siemens. Price would be around 30€ however :s


 
  Nothing special about that price I'm afraid.  A shame.
   
  As for mil vs. telco it comes down to the history of the tube and its use.  The lifetime buy for German Post was done in large batches with very high controls in place.  Good quality and consistency, they were aiming for maximum life because it was the last time the tube would ever be produced.  From what I have read the post tubes are the ones people seek out, though I have no doubt there is not much real difference.  At least not sonically, maybe they'd last a little longer.
   
  They command higher prices so it helps to determine if the price in question is a good one or not.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Great, $999 each, no thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I love gears as much as the next audio lover. But no need, really. Some moons back, I worked in Home Audio and did CES and other shows year in and year out. Enjoying both dealer discounts and loaners from manufacturers - lots and lots of toys - I'm content with keeping the listening room sparsely populated. 
   
  Commitment and ceremony can also be fun. Think _heightened senses._


----------



## john57

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Great, $999 each, no thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  There are some good balanced DAC's out there without that much money. One is the Emotiva XDA-2 and the other is the Schiit GUNGNIR which is built in USA. The GUNFNIR case manufacture ,circuit board manufacture and assembly all done in USA.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  No others?


----------



## Clayton SF

I really like this balanced DAC. Inexpensive and a powerhouse IMO.
  http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/dacmagic-plus-digital-to-analogue-converter
  I own one myself.
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Audio-DacMagic-Digital-Analogue/dp/B006GJU33I/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1364098623&sr=8-3&keywords=dacmagic


----------



## wolfetan44

Thanks for the DAC to look at, Glenn. And to, John, I have heard some bad things about the XDA-2 and the Gungir is too expensive for me right now.


----------



## Xcalibur255

My Channel Islands VDA-2 has been a faithful piece of gear for some years now, though it is getting long in the tooth design-wise compared to some others.  It's not much cheaper than the Gungnir though so no help there, and if you want the upgraded PSU it is no cheaper at all. 
   
  You might want to look at the Musical Fidelity V-DAC II, it has a pretty good reputation for it's price.
   
  http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/vSeries/v-dacii/
   
  I see no reason to shy away from Emotiva though, those guys make good products and offer a great value.


----------



## wotts

+1 for the Emo gear. I replaced an XDA-2 with the PWD Mk II, and truly, I think the XDA-2 was just as good. I would buy another without a second thought.


----------



## john57

I also had the Behringer Ultramatch PRO SRC2496 but the power supply gradually quit on me after two years but it was a tweeter delight with all the adjustments you can make on it.. Got it second hand. I then had a RDL DAC unit that I brought new at a bankruptcy sale but the left channel blew out in 9 months. I also had a old Sonic Frontier tube DAC that I like very much but the input receiver board for the DAC fried with the driver update for the Coaxial digital output from my computer. I will try to get it fixed it but the Sonic Frontier which has a outstanding tube stage is very difficult to work on because of the hybrid modules used. I will have to replace the entire digital board with something more modern. My best balanced DAC is my ESS Juli@ audio card that I am using in my custom sound proof Desktop PC. I heard more variation in sound quality with balanced DACs than I did with single ended DACs. I also using my Emotiva XDA-1 $200 closeout using its unbalanced outputs to my secondary tube setup with a second pair of active monitors along with the headphones as well. In this case I am using a DIY USB reclocker.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I agree the price on the C3G is on the heavy side. I paid 14€/piece for min, that's half. But it's good to know there is a stock


----------



## rosgr63

Ultra if and when you decide to proceed, I am in.
   
  I don't have an amp that uses them, but the addiction is too strong. 
   
  Just tried the B36 in my Glenn OTL and it sounds excellent.


----------



## hodgjy

Did you upgrade the power source at all?  If so, did you notice any appreciable difference in sound?
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I really like this balanced DAC. Inexpensive and a powerhouse IMO.
> http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/dacmagic-plus-digital-to-analogue-converter
> I own one myself.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Audio-DacMagic-Digital-Analogue/dp/B006GJU33I/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1364098623&sr=8-3&keywords=dacmagic


----------



## hodgjy

I have this DAC, and I like it a lot.  Once I upgraded the power source, it became just a hint better.  It is a very musical DAC--it has vinyl qualities to it.  I can't really describe it any better than that.
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> My Channel Islands VDA-2 has been a faithful piece of gear for some years now, though it is getting long in the tooth design-wise compared to some others.  It's not much cheaper than the Gungnir though so no help there, and if you want the upgraded PSU it is no cheaper at all.
> 
> *You might want to look at the Musical Fidelity V-DAC II, it has a pretty good reputation for it's price.*
> 
> ...


----------



## dminches

Why does it have to be balanced?  It seems like one eliminated a lot of quality DACs if you only want balanced.


----------



## 2359glenn

I was going to ask the same thing why balanced ?
  Also I don't understand the whole balanced headphone amp thing when there is no balanced headphones. Except Stax
  If people think having twice the number of parts in the signal path sounds better it don't!!!!
  I go by the KISS principle  ( Keep it simple stupid )   Following this I can make good sounding amps most of the time.


----------



## dminches

The only time I have tried to go the balanced route is with my speaker set up since I have long interconnect runs.  Balanced may keep the noise to a lower level as compared to unbalanced.  Other than that, I can't say I have ever heard a difference.


----------



## wolfetan44

I've heard such good things about balanced though


----------



## dminches

What have you heard?  It is all about the sound and if you limit your choices to balanced DACs you are going to miss out on a lot of great sounding DACs that are single-ended.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





dminches said:


> What have you heard?  It is all about the sound and if you limit your choices to balanced DACs you are going to miss out on a lot of great sounding DACs that are single-ended.


 
  That it sounds better. Just what I've heard though, I've done no comparisons..


----------



## wolfetan44

I like how Hodgjy described the V-DAC II, anyone else vouch for it?


----------



## 2359glenn

If you have long runs from your source to the amp  like over 25 meters  I would say run balanced.
  But still use a SE amp just have a high quality input transformer to go from balanced to SE.
  No sense in having 4 amplifiers instead of 2 twice the number of parts to color the sound.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> If you have long runs from your source to the amp  like over 25 meters  I would say run balanced.
> But still use a SE amp just have a high quality input transformer to go from balanced to SE.
> No sense in having 4 amplifiers instead of 2 twice the number of parts to color the sound.


 
  SE it is then.. I'll research the V-DAC II and the Cambridge Audio DACmagic. I may get the DAC magic so then if I ever want to go balanced I already have the DAC for it..


----------



## dminches

I have a balanced pre-amp and balanced mono blocks.  My long IC runs are from the pre to the amps.  They are both 25-30 feet.  I wanted to have long ICs instead of long speakers cables.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I have a balanced pre-amp and balanced mono blocks.  My long IC runs are from the pre to the amps.  They are both 25-30 feet.  I wanted to have long ICs instead of long speakers cables.


 
  So your amp has balanced input and SE output ? Or is it balanced output with the speaker hooked across two outputs?


----------



## wolfetan44

The ultimate question, DACMagic Plus or V-DAC II?


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> So your amp has balanced input and SE output ? Or is it balanced output with the speaker hooked across two outputs?


 
   
  Each amp has both single-ended and balanced inputs.  And each has 1 set of speaker terminals.


----------



## hodgjy

DACMagic Plus = $599
  V-DAC II + V-PSU II = $508.  
   
  I've never heard the DACMagic Plus, but the V-Combo is the best I've ever heard.  Look up a few reviews on google about the V-DAC II.  They are overwhelmingly positive.  Although, I'm sure the DACMagic is also a wonderful DAC.
   
  Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> The ultimate question, DACMagic Plus or V-DAC II?


----------



## warchild

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> SE it is then.. I'll research the V-DAC II and the Cambridge Audio DACmagic. I may get the DAC magic so then if I ever want to go balanced I already have the DAC for it..


 
   
  I've had both. I preferred the Keces (no longer made) but have settled on the gamma 2 DIY dac.


----------



## rosgr63

My limited experience from my two balanced headphone rigs is:
   
  Some headphones benefit more from a balanced set up.
   
  SS amps can provide true balanced configuration better than tube amps.
  Not many tube amps have all the features like SE or Balanced input giving a Balanced output.
   
  Depending on the design a good headphone tube amp doesn't need to be balanced.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> I really like this balanced DAC. Inexpensive and a powerhouse IMO.
> http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/dacmagic-plus-digital-to-analogue-converter
> I own one myself.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Audio-DacMagic-Digital-Analogue/dp/B006GJU33I/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1364098623&sr=8-3&keywords=dacmagic




+1 for the DMPlus. I enjoyed it for some time before I sprung for the W4S DAC-2.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> The ultimate question, DACMagic Plus or V-DAC II?


 
  Not quite a fair [size=11pt]comparison[/size]. The DACmagic Plus is balanced with volume control and a headphone jack. I would compare the V-DAC II to the DacMagic 100 and since my amp is warm sounding the DacMagic 100 may be a better choice and the V-DAC II may give SS amps more of a warmer sound.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What about with Glenns OTL amp? It will ONLY be used as a DAC.


----------



## hodgjy

I consider the V-DAC to smooth, but neutral.  I wouldn't call it warm.  You won't have some distasteful synergy of a warm DAC feeding a tube amp.  I use it to feed my tube amp to very smooth and linear results.  I'm sure the DACMagic is also very linear as well.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I consider the V-DAC to smooth, but neutral.  I wouldn't call it warm.  You won't have some distasteful synergy of a warm DAC feeding a tube amp.  I use it to feed my tube amp to very smooth and linear results.  I'm sure the DACMagic is also very linear as well.


 
  Not sure which to get
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways, I've derailed the thread, I just will make sure not to get a warm DAC. Thanks for the help!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I have a balanced pre-amp and balanced mono blocks.  My long IC runs are from the pre to the amps.  They are both 25-30 feet.  I wanted to have long ICs instead of long speakers cables.


 
   
  David aren't IC cables more expensive per meter than speaker cables?
   
  I thought you would loose more signal quality from long IC's than long speaker cables.


----------



## dminches

Stavros, this is an open debate.  The consensus seems to be that long ICs are better than long speakers runs.  But I have heard both arguments.


----------



## hodgjy

It's my understanding that the issue with speaker cable runs is the thickness of the cable.  The issue with IC runs is both length and shielding, which impacts thickness. 
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> David aren't IC cables more expensive per meter than speaker cables?
> 
> I thought you would loose more signal quality from long IC's than long speaker cables.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> David aren't IC cables more expensive per meter than speaker cables?
> 
> I thought you would loose more signal quality from long IC's than long speaker cables.


 
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It's my understanding that the issue with speaker cable runs is the thickness of the cable.  The issue with IC runs is both length and shielding, which impacts thickness.


 
  The problem with IC cables is capacitance the higher capacitance will roll off the highs and the longer the cable the more capacitance


----------



## dminches

Glenn, that is exactly what Grover Huffman said.  He recommends long speaker cable runs.


----------



## 2359glenn

I used to have long speaker runs and I used 10 gage wire to the speakers. The heavier the wire the less resistance and loss.


----------



## rosgr63

I also thought IC's are more prone to EMF and interference that speaker cables.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I also thought IC's are more prone to EMF and interference that speaker cables.


 
  They are but some of that is the quality of the shield not all ICs are created equal and just because it is
  expensive doesn't mean it is better. I usually check the capacitance with a capacitor checker before
  I buy. I like to know the capacitance per meter in pf


----------



## rosgr63

Finally I have read that the quality of the connectors is also critical and more so in digital IC's.
  The 75ohm S/PDIF requirement of RCA and BNC connectors is the one I am referring to.


----------



## dminches

So, are there "better" digital cables?


----------



## 2359glenn

I really don't know I don't use DACs I listen to CDs on a old studio quality Tascam CD player
  and it only takes one CD at a time. Maybe some day I will get into the 20th century.


----------



## hodgjy

I found great satisfaction spinning CDs.  I still like it now.  But, once I went to an iPod holding my entire music collection feeding a DAC, I have become accustomed to the convenience of my entire library at my fingertips. 
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I really don't know I don't use DACs I listen to CDs on a old studio quality Tascam CD player
> and it only takes one CD at a time. Maybe some day I will get into the 20th century.


----------



## warchild

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I really don't know I don't use DACs I listen to CDs on a old studio quality Tascam CD player
> and it only takes one CD at a time. Maybe some day I will get into the 20th century.


 
   
  The Cd player has a built in DAC!
  You're closer to being timely than you thought!


----------



## Clayton SF

I either play records or CDs one at a time as well. I tried Apple's Airplay and to my ear it didn't sound quite right on my system so I dropped it. The weakest link must have been my wireless connection. Also, when I download music from HDTracks or other high-end download sites, I burn the songs to a DVD and play it on my PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport--one disc at a time.


----------



## hodgjy

I've tried airplay from a number of devices, Apple and others, and I agree that it never sounded right.  I only use Airplay to stream WatchESPN from my iPad to my TV.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I either play records or CDs one at a time as well. I tried Apple's Airplay and to my ear it didn't sound quite right on my system so I dropped it. The weakest link must have been my wireless connection. Also, when I download music from HDTracks or other high-end download sites, I burn the songs to a DVD and play it on my PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport--one disc at a time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Not sure which to get
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  In my opinion Glenn's amps are darn near perfect for tone, so I would suggest seeking neutrality from your other gear so as to not upset the balance.  When it comes to source components I think neutral should always be the goal, if the designer/maker states otherwise (like claiming their DAC is "warm" for example) then that usually makes me wary.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> They are but some of that is the quality of the shield not all ICs are created equal and just because it is
> expensive doesn't mean it is better. I usually check the capacitance with a capacitor checker before
> I buy. I like to know the capacitance per meter in pf


 
   
  I like Signal Cable ICs for this reason, they actually state their capacitance and DC resistance for their cables when most others do not.  The pricing is also very reasonable compared to most audiophile cables.  I have only ever made a direct comparison between my cables once, between the Signal Cable and some Acoustic Research ones I had around for pre-out duties with my old receiver.  I went in with no expectations of the comaprison, and thing thing I remember best was the very noticeable difference in bass.  The bass on the Acoustic Research cable was much more loose and lazy sounding, though there were differences elsewhere too especially when it came to note separation.
   
  I became a believer in IC quality after hearing it with my own ears.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I really don't know I don't use DACs I listen to CDs on a old studio quality Tascam CD player
> and it only takes one CD at a time. Maybe some day I will get into the 20th century.


 
  I use the Oppo BDP95 and play CD also one at a time. I also have a 5 disc carousel sacd Sony but I don't really use it much because the Oppo is so much better but the Sony came out when Sony first introduced sacd and it as 349.00 with 5 sacd so I picked it up and actually it still works perfectly an dis about 10 year sold well built. I still think CD sound bette computer downloads. I do miss the vinyl rig but not the work needed to keep it going .


----------



## Silent One

78% - Mac music server
  20% - Vinyl
    1% - DVD/CD
    1% - DAT
   
  I primarily use the Sony Home DVD/CD player to contrast familiar tracks against their digital counterparts once in a Blue Moon to make sure all is well. And the DAT for memories and good times!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dminches said:


> So, are there "better" digital cables?


 
   
  Indeed, they change/affect the sound.
  Even Toshlink and USB cables make a difference and I have experienced this, even though I am a terrible evaluator.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I found great satisfaction spinning CDs.  I still like it now.  But, once I went to an iPod holding my entire music collection feeding a DAC, I have become accustomed to the convenience of my entire library at my fingertips.


 
   
  I have most of my library on my iPods which I often use with docks connected to my systems or when mobile.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I either play records or CDs one at a time as well. I tried Apple's Airplay and to my ear it didn't sound quite right on my system so I dropped it. The weakest link must have been my wireless connection. Also, when I download music from HDTracks or other high-end download sites, I burn the songs to a DVD and play it on my PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport--one disc at a time.


 
   
  I digitised most of my vinyls 12 years ago and never used them since.
  The convenience of been digital is hard to beat.
  I use airplay with my speaker amp but not that often.


----------



## longbowbbs

90% AIFF/FLAC/WAV
  10% SACD/CD/Blu-Ray Audio
   
  The convenience factor for Digital is hard to beat.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The convenience factor for Digital is hard to beat.


 
  2009: 10% speakers
            90% headphones
   
  2013: 90% speakers
            10% headphones
   
  I agree with your statement and I will get there at some point--again. I was streaming using Airplay for about a month and then I stopped.
   
  What I get out of playing single CDs and LPs one at a time is that I treat an LP or CD like a concert. When I listen to Miles Davis or Diana Krall, I listen to the complete CD--start to finish. I sit in comfortably and hold the CD or LP cover in my hand and look at the notes (not all the time but most of the time.) Also the covers help me choose my mood. Flip, flip, flip... ah here's one for a quiet evening. Turn over the album jacket. What have we here?
   
  Even compilation CDs and LPs offer up a mood that I can quickly reference; however, when I did stream music, it was usually when I was putting around the apartment. After all, I have my mono blocks on 18 hours a day continuously--sometimes 20 hours (when I go to bed I select an ambient music CD, choose Repeat All, and play it at low volume) if I listened intently continuously, I'd never get the dishes washed.


----------



## dminches

Right now I am 30% headphones and 70% speakers.
   
  All of my headphone time is with digital sources, mostly streamed from my squeezebox touch.  With my speaker listening I would say it is 70% vinyl and 30% digital (CDs/SACDs/streamed-squeezebox).


----------



## longbowbbs

I am probably 95% headphones 5% speakers. Mainly due to disturbing the family or someone in the next hotel room. I do enjoy hooking up the B&W MM1's with the DragonFly to the MBPro for some hotel room near field when I don't want the HP's on or I have things to do and I am moving around the room. 
   
  I was listening to Steven Wilsons new Raven recording on multi-channel Blu-ray with my Oppo BD-83 and M&K's and it is really neat. Sometimes, I will spend some SACD time with my Vandersteen's too. Still that time is limited at the moment.


----------



## dminches

What is the difference between a 5AR4 and a 5R4GY?


----------



## rosgr63

Two tubes worth trying are the Ken-Rad VT231 and FIVRE 6SN7GT Black Plates.
  They sound excellent with Glenn's OTL and Grado SR325is.
   
  Like Eric I am 98% headphones 2% speakers.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dminches said:


> What is the difference between a 5AR4 and a 5R4GY?


 

 Apples and oranges my friend.  They have different ratings, heater power requirements, and voltage drop.  Most importantly the 5AR4 is indirectly heated and the 5R4GY is direct heating. 
   
  The 5R4GY is a relative of the 5U4G, where as the 5AR4 is not directly related to either one apart from them both being full wave rectifiers.


----------



## dminches

I guess I should have asked about the 5U4G and 5R4GY!  I have seen people talk about substituting one for the other.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I guess I should have asked about the 5U4G and 5R4GY!  I have seen people talk about substituting one for the other.


 
  I believe the 5R4GY is available for using in 5U$ applications. I just ordered one Phillips from Upscale Audio to use in the Taboo Mk 111


----------



## 2359glenn

5U4GB = max AC in 550volt per plate
                max output current 275 ma
                tube voltage drop 50 volt
                Filament 5 volt 3 amp
   
  5R4    = max AC in 900 volt per plate
               max output current 250 ma
               tube voltage drop 67 volt
               Filament 5 volt 2 amp
   
  These tubes can be subs for each other in most applications


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> 5U4GB = max AC in 550volt per plate
> max output current 275 ma
> tube voltage drop 50 volt
> Filament 5 volt 3 amp
> ...


 
  Thanks Glenn


----------



## rosgr63

I bet Glenn remembers all the data by heart and has used these and a few more plenty times.
   
  I am very content with my 3DG4 rectifier.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I thought the current output on the 5R4 was less than that, maybe I will try my Brimar 5R4GY in the OTL and see how it sounds.  I was afraid to because I thought it would arc and fry itself and I really like that tube so I didn't want to risk it.


----------



## 2359glenn

The 5R4 can handle 250ma with choke input. So you can try it your amp is choke input.
  One of the two chokes is the input choke.
  It still will be pushing it to the max.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Thanks for the scoop Glenn.    Maybe I will try it out with the 6BL7 since their current draw is lower.
   
  Not surprisingly the 600 ohm Beyers work much better with this experiment than my previous 60 ohm load did.  It sounds pretty nice, though I didn't hear anything that would make me want to stop using the 5998.  Some of it might be the newness of the Beyers too.


----------



## rosgr63

How do you like your Beyer's Xcalibur?
   
  Mine even though are only 250Ohm sound nice with my Glenn's OTL.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I like them.    They are so, so much more comfortable to wear than the LCD-2s are and I like the sound so far too.
   
  They have been all over the place while breaking in.  Within the span of a listening session I've heard them go from flat to bright to just right two times now.  They seem to not like being burned in on my crappy Sandisk mp3 player which barely produces any volume on them even at max output.  For about an hour when running off the OTL after one of those sessions they just seem to be lifeless then they snap out of it, so I decided to just let them break-in with normal listening sessions running off the OTL from now on.
   
  The biggest surprise came from trying them with my old as the hills Samsung Yepp mp3 player running through my Meier Headsix portable amp.  That sounded downright great which I was not expecting in the least.  I could honestly listen to them that way all the time I think, unless my ears were just golden last night for some reason.
   
  The 6BL7 is a fun experiment but they seem to lack depth compared to the normal tubes.  It reminds me of listening to a mid-tier SS amp:  the clarity is there but there is just something missing.  I have to praise the bass control though, that is really excellent, and something the 6BL7 always seems to be good at.  I doubt the tube is ideally biased in a 6AS7G circuit so it is not really a fair shake for the tube.  It is probably being run too hard for one thing.


----------



## Silent One

Xcalibur255, when did you bring the Bears Beyers home? Last year, I auditioned the 600 Ohm cans for three weeks. But, my sessions saw frequent interruptions during this time (due to my caregiving duties... life happens!). I'm going to need a proper trial/another trial before I could stand behind any impressions.
   
  I originally felt they weren't for me, then quickly realized after its return that may not be the case. The black background was stunning... I want more of that!


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Xcalibur255, when did you bring the Bears Beyers home? Last year, I auditioned the 600 Ohm cans for three weeks. But, my sessions saw frequent interruptions during this time (due to my caregiving duties... life happens!). I'm going to need a proper trial/another trial before I could stand behind any impressions.
> 
> I originally felt they weren't for me, then quickly realized after its return that may not be the case. The black background was stunning... I want more of that!


 
   
   
  This got me thinking I'm due for a session with the T1s. Looking forward to getting outta work now!


----------



## dminches

I spent some time with my T1s with both Glenn's OTL and my Leben.  They sounded really good on both.  I takes a while for my ears to re-acclimate to the LCD-3s.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I spent some time with my T1s with both Glenn's OTL and my Leben.  They sounded really good on both.  I takes a while for my ears to re-acclimate to the LCD-3s.


 
   
  David which do you prefer the T1 or the LCD-3?


----------



## dminches

The LCD-3s are still my favorite but the T1s are growing on me. I also have my ATH-W300ANVs which I really like too.


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





dminches said:


> The LCD-3s are still my favorite but the T1s are growing on my. I also have my ATH-W300ANVs which I really like too.


 
   
  Curious how the W3000ANV's sound with glenn's OTL.  My only exposure to the amp was when ClaytonSF brought his along to a meet up last year and it sounded great with an HD650.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dminches said:


> The LCD-3s are still my favorite but the T1s are growing on my. I also have my ATH-W300ANVs which I really like too.


 
  Agreed. As good as the T1s are, the LCD-3s are still a cut above IMO.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Xcalibur255, when did you bring the Bears Beyers home? Last year, I auditioned the 600 Ohm cans for three weeks. But, my sessions saw frequent interruptions during this time (due to my caregiving duties... life happens!). I'm going to need a proper trial/another trial before I could stand behind any impressions.
> 
> I originally felt they weren't for me, then quickly realized after its return that may not be the case. The black background was stunning... I want more of that!


 

 I've only had them a few days.  My major worry is that it would be hard to jump between them and the LCD-2, but I really needed something for less serious listening sessions.  Or just some variety even perhaps.  The LCD-2 wearing comfort is always going to be an issue for me to some extent so I needed something to fall back onto.
   
  So far I feel like I chose well.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I've only had them a few days.  My major worry is that it would be hard to jump between them and the LCD-2, but I really needed something for less serious listening sessions.  Or just some variety even perhaps.  The LCD-2 wearing comfort is always going to be an issue for me to some extent so I needed something to fall back onto.
> 
> So far I feel like I chose well.


 
  [size=medium]I think that you did choose well. A few months ago I tried the Beyerdynamic DT990 and it was a complete disaster. Not enough volume at all and nothing in the upper midrange are being produced. I tried it on three different setups with no change. I returned it back to the vendor. It was definitely new but could have a defect. Next I tried the DT860 which is almost lost in the Beyerdynamic lineup. As it turn out the DT860 is the greatest underdog find I ever discovered. The DT860 is along the best headphones in detail retrieval while sounding natural. The DT860 has very dry but strong bass. The DT860 produce just the soundstage and hall space that is in the recording with nothing added itself. The sub bass does not go quite as deep as my T70. It also more treble energy but treble is smoother than other headphones. The DT860 can go much louder than the DT770, DT880 DT990 with less distortion.  Not the most conformable but fine for my needs. It is a big headphone and possibly for someone with smaller heads might find the headphone slide too far low on the head, again not an issue with me. The DT860 is rated at 32 ohms but I do not have any problems with any of the tube amps to drive it. It is great for movies and dialog as well. [/size]
   
  [size=medium]The DT860 is close to perfection that I ever found in a headphone. [/size]


----------



## rosgr63

Very interesting find John, thanks for sharing.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I received the C&K GZ33 yesterday. I was quite surprised to see it's such a tiny tube compared to the Mullard GZ37, I expected them to be more or less the same size.
   

   
  Are all GZ33 tubes the same size/shape actually? Stupid question probably


----------



## 2359glenn

They still can handle as much current
   
  GZ33 250 ma  or 300 ma with choke input
   
  GZ37 250 ma or 350 ma with choke input
   
  You can try this tube in the OTL amp


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks Glenn, I suppose that means the GZ33 always is that small compared to the GZ37


----------



## Clayton SF

I own a GZ33 and GZ37. The are identical in size, shape and plates. And on my speaker system they sound (to my ear) the same. The GZ37 has less voltage drop than the GZ33, though.


----------



## dminches

I just found this chart on line:
   
   

 *Tube Type* *DC mA* *PIV* *FIL AMPS* *Max ACV* *DCV* *DCV DROP* *Diode Rectifier*         425   *5AR4 / GZ-34* 250 1500 1.9 450 415 10 *5V4-GA* 175 1400 2 375 400 25 *GZ37* 350 1000 2.8 450 388 37 *5U4-GA* 250 1550 3 450 381 44 *5U4-G* 225 1550 3 450 381 44 *5U4-GB* 275 1550 3 450 375 50 *5Y3-G/GA* 125 1400 2 350 365 60 *5R4GYB* 250 3100 2 900 362 63 *5R4G/GY/GYA* 250 3100 2 750 358 67
   
  From this is seems like one could use a GZ37 any time an amp called for a 5U4G, right?  I draws less current and has a nice high current available.
   
  Am I translating these numbers correctly?
   
  I also see that the GZ34 has a very low voltage drop.  Is that why it is a preferred rectifier?
   
  There is so much to learn about this.  Very interesting stuff.  I wish I had learned more when I took electrical engineering in college.  I am not sure they got into this, though.


----------



## Clayton SF

To piggyback on dminches's chart...
  here's another chart on five-volt fullwave rectifiers.
  Their specs are slightly different.


----------



## rosgr63

Nice tables thanks.
   
  5V3 is also a recommended tube.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> To piggyback on dminches's chart...
> here's another chart on five-volt fullwave rectifiers.
> Their specs are slightly different.


 

 That is one of the most useful charts I've ever seen, thanks for sharing it.
   
  Just a small correction though, I believe it is the GZ33 that has less voltage drop compared to the GZ37.  It is sort of an underdog with the GZ37 being more popular and I'm not sure why because if you look at what people say about it most people slightly prefer the GZ33 when they've had the chance to compare.
   
  edit:  I believe the GZ33 heater current is 3.0A against the GZ37's 2.8A so there is that small difference too.  Technically that makes the GZ33 closer to a true 5U4G equivalent I would say.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I am now curious what a 5AT4 looks like.  800mA current output....... the one rectifier to rule them all.
   
  Coincidentally I've tried a number of the tubes on that list.  None of them sound as good as the 3DG4 does in the OTL.  I think the most interesting was the 5AW4, a most curious little tube.  I'm not sure if I would call it "good" but it certainly is interesting sounding and they look unique too.
   
  I have to wonder if the chart is totally accurate though, why would the 5Z3 and 5U4G have different voltage drops?  Aside from their base pin out they are the exact same tube.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dminches said:


> From this is seems like one could use a GZ37 any time an amp called for a 5U4G, right?  I draws less current and has a nice high current available.
> 
> Am I translating these numbers correctly?
> 
> ...


 
  It won't let me remove the chart to shorten the quote.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  In basically all cases you can sub a GZ33 or GZ37 in an amp that wants a 5U4G.  The heater current is the same (or slightly lower in the GZ37) and the output ratings are higher.  The biggest danger in rolling rectifiers is not knowing what your transformer is capable of handing.  In a Woo amp for example their 5V tap can only go up to 3.0A.  So if you were to try the 5AU4 or another tube like that, and you could since it would go in the socket, it would take its toll on the transformer over time and burn it up quite possibly.
   
  The OTL is good up to 5.0A so the whole field is fair game more or less so long as the rectifier can output enough current.  250mA is the minimum and it really should be 300mA or higher.
  
  I can expand on the logic behind voltage drop on rectifiers if you want me to, up to my own understanding at least.  I think maybe I already did that once here a while ago actually.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey, y'all--here's the full chart and accompanying text.
  Excellent read.
   

```
[url=http://www.fourwater.com/files/fullrect.txt]Five Volt Fullwave Rectifier Tubes[/url]
```


----------



## dminches

That is great.  Thanks Clayton.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I can expand on the logic behind voltage drop on rectifiers if you want me to, up to my own understanding at least.  I think maybe I already did that once here a while ago actually.


 
   
   
  If you don't mind please do expand your thoughts.
  Thanks


----------



## 2359glenn

The voltage drop in a rectifier tube is according to the current drawn through the rectifier.
  So the same tube will have a different voltage drop in different amps that draw different
  amount of current.  So the same tube will sound different in different amps.
  Back to eating Cadbury Creme Eggs


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The voltage drop in a rectifier tube is according to the current drawn through the rectifier.
> So the same tube will have a different voltage drop in different amps that draw different
> amount of current.  So the same tube will sound different in different amps.
> Back to eating Cadbury Creme Eggs


 
  Whether it is a voltage drop or a sugar spike... Yes. I'm going to get some Cadbury Creme Eggs right now. rosgr63 made me do it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Whether it is a voltage drop or a sugar spike... Yes. I'm going to get some Cadbury Creme Eggs right now. rosgr63 made me do it.


 
  Were do you think I got them from?
  The problem with Cadbury Creme Eggs is they are so good you can't stop eating them.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Were do you think I got them from?
> The problem with Cadbury Creme Eggs is they are so good you can't stop eating them.




Picture? No offence but it sounds horrible.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Picture? No offence but it sounds horrible.


 

   
  The Horrors It is a sweets overdose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  I can't even imagine what Rosgr63 has in for us in exactly 3 months to the day when we get
  off the plane in Athens. Cant Waite
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I figure I will be gaining at least 10 lbs


----------



## Clayton SF

Cadbury Creme Egg Brownies


----------



## hodgjy

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Cadbury Creme Egg Brownies


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Were do you think I got them from?
> The problem with Cadbury Creme Eggs is they are so good you can't stop eating them.


 
  I don't let myself buy these anymore........ I can't take the weight back off after binging on them.
   
  And what the hell happened to their price?  Just a couple of years ago they were 25 cents each.  Sheesh talk about inflation at work......


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> If you don't mind please do expand your thoughts.
> Thanks


 

 Glenn and the text accompanying that table basically explained the mechanics of it.  The thing that is most useful is to have an understanding of why the rectifier can change the sound of an amp even though all it does is change AC to DC power.
   
  Put yourself in the position of a designer for a moment.  Let's say, just taking a common number at random here, that the tubes in the amp you are designing work best at a plate voltage of 250V.  As the designer it is your job to make the circuit so that this voltage gets to the tube _taking into account_ the characteristics of the rectifier tube and other components of the power supply design.  For our example let's say we are using a 5U4G.  When outputting full current it will drop around 45V, the actual amount will depend upon the load and the circuit.  When the designer is making the circuit and selecting their parts they take this voltage drop into account so that 250V still gets to the tube plates.  So what happens when we substitute a different tube?  If you throw a 5AR4 in there then now your other tubes might be seeing 280V on the plates.  This is because the 5AR4 has less voltage drop than the 5U4G.  If you use a 5R4GY now they are seeing less than 230V on the plates because it has more drop.  This changes the operating points of the other tubes and changes their behavior electrically.  And that in a nutshell is why a rectifier change the sound of an amp, it is not doing so directly but by causing a change in behavior from the other tubes.
   
  This is also why, in my opinion, the OTL sounds best with the 3DG4.  Glenn likely used the voltage drop characteristics of this tube when he designed the amp.  So it is fair to say that the amp sounds the way Glenn intended it to when the 3DG4 is being used.  Not to say there is anything wrong with using a different tube.  It is pretty common to use tubes like the 5R4 which have more drop to "mellow out" an amp.  To my ears the amp sounds completely "right" only when the 3DG4 is in the rectifier position.  It sounds good with other tubes but not ideal.  Just one man's take on it though, I know a couple of other owners prefer the 5U8C and that USAF version of the 5U4 I can't remember the name of right now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 

 I know you think I have it in for the tube SO but I swear I can't remember right now and I promised myself I would go to bed rather than hunt through the thread looking for a reminder.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, but it's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 justified, since we know the glass isn't performing at it's best with this particular application. Though, it gives me j-u-s-t enough satisfaction to feature it. 
   
  However, the rarity of this glass and the shortened life I'm subjecting it to, will soon have me featuring the 3DG4 most of the time going forward. This summer/autumn, I'm looking forward to seeing what other amp I can get from the studio.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Cadbury Creme Egg Brownies


 
   
   
  Clayton this is not fair, now you are playing with my sanity!
   
  Glenn, good news!
  I have been cured from my tube addiction at long last!
   
  I'm going back to Cadbury's cream egg addiction!
   
  Is it B65+3DG4+Raytheon VT-52+Cadbury's Cream eggs?
   
  or Clayton's CCE Brownies?
   
  I am very confused now................


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Glenn and the text accompanying that table basically explained the mechanics of it.  The thing that is most useful is to have an understanding of why the rectifier can change the sound of an amp even though all it does is change AC to DC power.
> 
> Put yourself in the position of a designer for a moment.  Let's say, just taking a common number at random here, that the tubes in the amp you are designing work best at a plate voltage of 250V.  As the designer it is your job to make the circuit so that this voltage gets to the tube _taking into account_ the characteristics of the rectifier tube and other components of the power supply design.  For our example let's say we are using a 5U4G.  When outputting full current it will drop around 45V, the actual amount will depend upon the load and the circuit.  When the designer is making the circuit and selecting their parts they take this voltage drop into account so that 250V still gets to the tube plates.  So what happens when we substitute a different tube?  If you throw a 5AR4 in there then now your other tubes might be seeing 280V on the plates.  This is because the 5AR4 has less voltage drop than the 5U4G.  If you use a 5R4GY now they are seeing less than 230V on the plates because it has more drop.  This changes the operating points of the other tubes and changes their behavior electrically.  And that in a nutshell is why a rectifier change the sound of an amp, it is not doing so directly but by causing a change in behavior from the other tubes.
> 
> This is also why, in my opinion, the OTL sounds best with the 3DG4.  Glenn likely used the voltage drop characteristics of this tube when he designed the amp.  So it is fair to say that the amp sounds the way Glenn intended it to when the 3DG4 is being used.  Not to say there is anything wrong with using a different tube.  It is pretty common to use tubes like the 5R4 which have more drop to "mellow out" an amp.  To my ears the amp sounds completely "right" only when the 3DG4 is in the rectifier position.  It sounds good with other tubes but not ideal.  Just one man's take on it though, I know a couple of other owners prefer the 5U8C and that USAF version of the 5U4 I can't remember the name of right now.


 
   
   
  Very nice explanation, thanks xcalibur.
   
  I am very happy with the 3DG4 so far, but thats my own preference.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Oh it "just" are chocolate eggs. I expected it to be something like the pickled beets and stuff you all seem to like 
  Happy Easter everyone!


----------



## rosgr63

Happy Easter!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton this is not fair, now you are playing with my sanity!
> 
> Glenn, good news!
> I have been cured from my tube addiction at long last!
> ...


 
   
  I don't think you will ever be cured from tube addiction.
  If you have been cured I have been bad!!!
  You have some coming in the mail.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Oh it "just" are chocolate eggs. I expected it to be something like the pickled beets and stuff you all seem to like
> Happy Easter everyone!


 

 Hah!
  Choices ...
   
  pickled beets, chocolate eggs ...
  5U4, 3DG4 ...
  Denons, Beyers ...
   
  Happy Easter.


----------



## hodgjy

"Just" chocolate eggs?  That's like saying Glenn's amps are "just" tube amps!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







   
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Oh it "just" are chocolate eggs. I expected it to be something like the pickled beets and stuff you all seem to like
> Happy Easter everyone!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hah!
> Choices ...
> 
> pickled beets, chocolate eggs ...
> ...


 
   
  The Beyer T90 arrived. It's been begging me to plug it in to your WA2 but I haven't found the time yet. Happy Easter to you too C. Your Belgian Easter Candy will be late however. Apologies!
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> "Just" chocolate eggs?  That's like saying Glenn's amps are "just" tube amps!


 
   
  When living in the land of Chocolate, yes. I wouldn't dare to call Glenn's amps "just" an amp. I can't wait for my amp to arrive. I should have proposed Glenn to pay for it in chocolate. Why do my great ideas always come late


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I don't think you will ever be cured from tube addiction.
> If you have been cured I have been bad!!!
> You have some coming in the mail.


 
   
   
  With friends like you I have no chance at all........


----------



## dminches

My new office set up.  I needed to try something new.


----------



## wolfetan44

What an office setup..


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> My new office set up.  I needed to try something new.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  If only you had some decent choices for music playback!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sweet setup David!
   
  How are you liking the AVA DAC?


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice set up David.
   
  I like the 6SN7/6F8G mod on your Van Alstine.


----------



## dminches

Eric, I really like the AVA DAC.  I produces a very sweet sound and goes perfectly with my Glenn OTL and Leben.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Eric, I really like the AVA DAC.  I produces a very sweet sound and goes perfectly with my Glenn OTL and Leben.


 
  Love the look...Tubes everywhere!


----------



## Skylab

That's pretty sweet, David.  Insane...but who am I to talk???


----------



## Clayton SF

My new furniture arrived this morning and I have been cleaning and rearranging my bedroom and living room for the past six hours. I was able to move most of my amps out of storage and place them on my new Go-Cart Carbon Grey Table that I bought from CB2. So this is where I am keeping (for now) the Primaluna Prologue 2, Zana Deux SE and Decware amps. The amp at the side of the bed is a Woo Audio 2 (2011 model). I will be working on the rest of the bedroom and the living room tomorrow. Will post more pictures later. I'm now breaking open the bottle of bubbly.


----------



## Eee Pee

Do some dumbbell curls to warm up and then some amp curls for the real workout?


----------



## dminches

Clayton, nice setup.
   
  Does your reconfiguration mean new cables?
   
  If I decide to keep my revised office setup I can get much shorter speaker cables.  They would have to be 3 ft at the most.  Any suggestions?


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's pretty sweet, David.  Insane...but who am I to talk???


 
   
  I believe you have some eye-candy setups of your own, especially the vintage rig.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Clayton, nice setup.
> Does your reconfiguration mean new cables?
> If I decide to keep my revised office setup I can get much shorter speaker cables.  They would have to be 3 ft at the most.  Any suggestions?


 

 Thanks...
   
  No new cables. Although if I were to get any they would be no longer than 3 feet. I'd get them shorter if possible. The cart setup is just to roll amps (literally and figuratively!). I'll roll the cart into the living room where I would connect the speaker cables and others to the amp on the cart and then listen to it. Then when I'm done I'd just disconnect the cables and roll the cart back into my bedroom. Theoretically that is what I'd like to do. I have yet to practice that though.
   
  Eee Pee: No dumbbell curls before or after listening. I got those weights a long time ago and I haven't used them in a decade. My arms could use a workout though. Then again... nah.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I believe you have some eye-candy setups of your own, especially the vintage rig.


 
   
  Yep...I'm using Spendor LS3/5A speakers in my office, powered by a Marantz 2285 and fed by a Vincent Audio tube DAC...like I said...I can't really talk


----------



## dminches

Pictures speak louder than words....


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Eee Pee: No dumbbell curls before or after listening. I got those weights a long time ago and I haven't used them in a decade. My arms could use a workout though. Then again... nah.


 
   
  Very nice set up indeed, I like the cart idea.
   
  I hope you got some help!
   
  I am exercising hard lifting Easter Eggs!!!!!!


----------



## longbowbbs




----------



## daigo

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks...
> 
> No new cables. Although if I were to get any they would be no longer than 3 feet. I'd get them shorter if possible. The cart setup is just to roll amps (literally and figuratively!). I'll roll the cart into the living room where I would connect the speaker cables and others to the amp on the cart and then listen to it. Then when I'm done I'd just disconnect the cables and roll the cart back into my bedroom. Theoretically that is what I'd like to do. I have yet to practice that though.
> 
> Eee Pee: No dumbbell curls before or after listening. I got those weights a long time ago and I haven't used them in a decade. My arms could use a workout though. Then again... nah.


 
   
  Who needs dumb bell curls when you're moving amps around.


----------



## rosgr63

Testing a 6CG7 for a change.
   
  Glenn, I am sorry to say but the M&M's are all gone!
  Sorry I couldn't wait!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Testing a 6CG7 for a change.
> 
> Glenn, I am sorry to say but the M&M's are all gone!
> Sorry I couldn't wait!!!!!!!!


 
  I am sure there will be more sweets before we get there.


----------



## rosgr63

Still hooked on The Army of Lovers and  FIVRE 6CG7.


----------



## Neogeo333

Stavros, how is the 6cg7 and 6sn7 Fivre? sound wise.


----------



## rosgr63

The 6CG7 is not as detailed and nice sounding as the 6SN7.
   
  I am testing a pair of FIVRE 6SN7 Black Plates I got a few months ago for EUR4.90 (yes it' true!) when the ebay God was asleep.
  They have the rare black plates and one is missing the spigot but still testing strong and great sounding.


----------



## Xcalibur255

*Unshielding the German Post C3g*
   
  It's doable it turns out.  I received my initial order purchased off eBay today.  As it turns out there is not much risk to the tube doing this.  The glass tapers in slightly towards the bottom of the tube, so you are not actually putting much pressure on the glass when prying the two parts of the casing apart. 
   
  What it _is_, though, is a pain in the ass all around.  The base and the top part are stamped very closely together, much like a soup can only with a much finer bottom edge.  I was able to produce two naked C3g tubes after a considerable amount of toiling and a LOT of visible nicks and scratches left on the base part that needs to be re-glued back onto the tube.  Well, technically you don't need to but without it you have no guide pin and that just seems like a recipe for disaster to me.
   
  I used a small pocket knife because the flathead screwdriver suggested by Jac doesn't have a fine enough edge to peel back the initial layers and get you started.  Only slightly stabbed myself once, not a bad showing all in all.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The other hairy part is that it is hard to get the initial opening pried without pressing against one of the tube's pins due to lack of clearance but some care is all that should be necessary to prevent bad things happening there.
   
  The tube looks pretty neat in the bare glass, typical pentode businses but better made and with open frames and gold grid posts.  It doesn't have the wire mesh the C3m but its still a million times nicer than looking at a painted black can.
   
  I would say the most pressing question in my mind now about the C3g in general is:  do the various makes have different sounds much like different makes of 6SN7 do?  The Siemens seem to be the cheapest simply because they made the most of them, but there is also Telefunken, Lorenz/ITT, and Valvo all of which cost more money.  Are they more expensive just because they are more rare or perhaps one offers better sonics?  A question for another time.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Can we get a picture please? I left my C3G untouched for now


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> *Unshielding the German Post C3g*
> 
> It's doable it turns out.  I received my initial order purchased off eBay today.  As it turns out there is not much risk to the tube doing this.  The glass tapers in slightly towards the bottom of the tube, so you are not actually putting much pressure on the glass when prying the two parts of the casing apart.
> 
> ...


 
  I don't think the Yamamoto sockets you want to use even have the center pin connection that gets grounded.
  It is better to remove the shield then have it not grounded.
   
  It looks like you will have to try all the different makes after your amp is built!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Can we get a picture please? I left my C3G untouched for now


 

 Glue is drying right now, so maybe a little later.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I don't think the Yamamoto sockets you want to use even have the center pin connection that gets grounded.
> It is better to remove the shield then have it not grounded.
> 
> It looks like you will have to try all the different makes after your amp is built!!


 
   
  Actually these sockets do have the electrical connection for the center pin, I asked Jac this question.  My fear was what if the locking part of the socket was stronger than the glue I put on the base and the tube came out with the base still stuck in the socket....?  Jac suggested a two-part epoxy but that stuff is so messy so I used Loctite control gel and will just have to hope it wasn't a mistake on my part.  I suppose two pairs of pliers would get that base piece out if it did happen, afterall the socket is screwed into the chassis so it certainly isn't going anywhere.
   
  I got impatient and bent a pin doing the 4th and final tube but I think I managed to save it.  After some pin polishing and Deoxit treatment this evening they'll be ready to go.
   
  I'm trying hard to convince myself all these tubes will sound the same, the Telefunkens go for $200 a piece just doesn't seem like a big deal since Clayton thinks the Siemens sound really good already.  Maybe after some time has passed I'll throw money at one of the other brand types to satisfy curiosity but not right out of the gate.


----------



## Clayton SF

Here are pictures of a Telefunken and a Siemens C3g.
  Wouldn't you say they were both manufactured at the same plant and just stamped with different brand names?
  The code numbers and C3g font look the same.
  ...jus' wondrin'


----------



## Silent One

Can't wait to see the_ naked_ shots after dinner, Xcalibur255!


----------



## Xcalibur255

This was right after I finished cleaning them.  You can see the teeth marks on the bottom of the base where I had to chisel the aluminum canister off of them.  I thought about leaving them all glass which is what Yamamoto Soundcraft does, but the guide pin offers peace of mind during insertion plus the tapered base would let the socket be visible when it is not on the other tubes so I figured this was the way to go.  I really hope the first time I try to pull them out of the socket that the base comes along for the ride, I have no idea if my glue bonds aluminum and glass well.  I guess that is to be discovered when the time comes.
   
  Clayton you make a good point about the factor stampings.  Maybe it is because production took place in one plant, or maybe it is because these were only ever really made for government use and they were required to adhere to a specific marking method and appearance.  There is really not much info on these tubes out there like you can find for a 6SN7 for example. Jac van der Walle suggests in his writings that more than one company produced these tubes, Siemens was just the biggest in terms of volume.  That would suggest different plants but it is just one piece of info to go on.


----------



## GrindingThud

xcalibur255 said:


>


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quick note.... FWIW my C3g tubes were not marked like shown in the photo Clayton posted.  There was nothing stamped on them at all except for 'C3g' and the Siemens 'S' logo on the top.  I think we're seeing the difference between military and POST markings in this case as mine are military stock.


----------



## CEE TEE

^I'm not used to seeing tubes that look SO CLEAN.  Nice share @Xcalibur255!
   
  Also, thanks for sharing that link to the pic of your Sylvanias and your notes.  
   
  (I was considering selling mine but with the KR-PX4 I am rolling back in some "upper-mids" tubes.)
   
_Now I think that I am beginning to understand why many of you don't want to part with any tubes- you never know if you will need the tubes in a different amp (or for different phones) to find the tonality and presentation that you are looking for?_


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for the tremendous effort to bring the glass to light. Tubes are so beautiful to look at. After getting my first tube amp, I noticed a couple of weeks after routinely setting the tubes aglow that my "BP" dropped.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Yes Thank you X!
   
  My C3G don't have the post marking either:

  I think I'll keep the metal top on for now.
   
  And a size comparison of my GZ37 and GZ33:

   
  Notice the GZ33 only has 4 pins in stead of 5. I suppose that's normal.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This was right after I finished cleaning them.  You can see the teeth marks on the bottom of the base where I had to chisel the aluminum canister off of them.  I thought about leaving them all glass which is what Yamamoto Soundcraft does, but the guide pin offers peace of mind during insertion plus the tapered base would let the socket be visible when it is not on the other tubes so I figured this was the way to go.  I really hope the first time I try to pull them out of the socket that the base comes along for the ride, I have no idea if my glue bonds aluminum and glass well.  I guess that is to be discovered when the time comes.
> 
> Clayton you make a good point about the factor stampings.  Maybe it is because production took place in one plant, or maybe it is because these were only ever really made for government use and they were required to adhere to a specific marking method and appearance.  There is really not much info on these tubes out there like you can find for a 6SN7 for example. Jac van der Walle suggests in his writings that more than one company produced these tubes, Siemens was just the biggest in terms of volume.  That would suggest different plants but it is just one piece of info to go on.


 
  I will check the sockets and how tight the socket grips to the ground pin with my tubes.
  If it is really tight I will loosen it up I plan on still hooking it to ground that way the base
  will be grounded and the whole tube if you ever use tubes with the shield left on.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Yes Thank you X!
> 
> My C3G don't have the post marking either:
> 
> ...


 
  Only 4 pins are used the 5th pin on the GZ37 is hooked to nothing most 5U4s are the same way
  5pins and only 4 are used.   Pins 2 , 4 , 6 , and 8 are used sometimes pin 1 is there but not connected.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Notice the GZ33 only has 4 pins in stead of 5. I suppose that's normal.


 
   
  Is that a Russian tube in disguise? With a saucer-type getter?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Is that a Russian tube in disguise? With a saucer-type getter?


 
  I thought that it looked Russian as well. It has the same plate structure as my 5Z3.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks for the help Glenn.
  Quote: 





oskari said:


> Is that a Russian tube in disguise? With a saucer-type getter?


 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I thought that it looked Russian as well. It has the same plate structure as my 5Z3.


 
   
  It's actually a C&K Electronics GZ3 but I couldn't find anything on the tube or company. Pleas e do share if you have any info on them.
  I first saw the tube on hupse.eu and then "accidentally" found one in Spain: http://www.hupse.eu/radio/tubes/GZ33.htm


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thanks for the help Glenn.
> It's actually a C&K Electronics GZ33 but I couldn't find anything on the tube or company. Please do share if you have any info on them.
> I first saw the tube on hupse.eu and then "accidentally" found one in Spain: http://www.hupse.eu/radio/tubes/GZ33.htm


 
  Here are more pictures of the Russian tube. Besides the different tube shape, do the internals of your C&K look like these photos?
  Look at those spacers that are attached to the top mica and touch the inside glass structure.


----------



## preproman

New to the thread.  And no sorry - I didn't read every page.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Is this a custom build amp?  Can it be balanced?  Also where and how to purchase?


----------



## rosgr63

The OTL's we have are SE.
   
  Best PM 2359glenn and ask.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





preproman said:


> New to the thread.  And no sorry - I didn't read every page.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Prep, you could've asked me this in our PMs
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It is a custom build amp, it can be balanced upon request, and you order from 2359glenn.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





preproman said:


> New to the thread.  And no sorry - I didn't read every page.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Outstanding members 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 are always welcome. Great to see you in this space. Send a PM to 2359glenn.


----------



## preproman

Thanks guys..
   




   
   
  Any comparisons with Woo amps?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I will check the sockets and how tight the socket grips to the ground pin with my tubes.
> If it is really tight I will loosen it up I plan on still hooking it to ground that way the base
> will be grounded and the whole tube if you ever use tubes with the shield left on.


 

 That sounds good Glenn.  I have one more pair of tubes coming with the sockets themselves from Germany, I plan to leave the metal cans on these as a permanent back up pair in the off chance that there are consequences to taking it off.
   
  I seriously doubt there are though.  Given the commercial telecom use the tube was designed for the shield is probably just one more layer of isolation against industrial noise that might leak into the phone transmission lines these things powered back in the day.  For home use they probably have no more need for the shield than do any other common tube that doesn't have one on it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That sounds good Glenn.  I have one more pair of tubes coming with the sockets themselves from Germany, I plan to leave the metal cans on these as a permanent back up pair in the off chance that there are consequences to taking it off.
> 
> I seriously doubt there are though.  Given the commercial telecom use the tube was designed for the shield is probably just one more layer of isolation against industrial noise that might leak into the phone transmission lines these things powered back in the day.  For home use they probably have no more need for the shield than do any other common tube that doesn't have one on it.


 

 Xcalibur255--you're the man. I get squeamish when it comes to cutting metal with my bare hands!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That sounds good Glenn.  I have one more pair of tubes coming with the sockets themselves from Germany, I plan to leave the metal cans on these as a permanent back up pair in the off chance that there are consequences to taking it off.
> 
> I seriously doubt there are though.  Given the commercial telecom use the tube was designed for the shield is probably just one more layer of isolation against industrial noise that might leak into the phone transmission lines these things powered back in the day.  For home use they probably have no more need for the shield than do any other common tube that doesn't have one on it.


 
  There is another internal shield that I hook to the cathode through a 100ohm resistor.


----------



## Xcalibur255

That must be the bottom metal plate below the mica right?  Jac says it reduces hum compared to traditional tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Xcalibur255--you're the man. I get squeamish when it comes to cutting metal with my bare hands!


 

 Believe me I'm no manly man when it comes to tools or doing things with my hands.  Being of impaired judgement whilst sick empowers a man to try things though for better or worse.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I was wondering Clayton, how are you liking that wheeled cart you posted about a week or so ago?  Is it sturdy enough to handle very heavy amps?  I'm going to need something when my stable grows and that seems like a practical and affordable solution.  I could put everything related below and all that would need changed is a longer optical cable to the DAC.


----------



## Clayton SF

Yes. I love the cart. I called customer support with some questions. Here's the transcript:
      


     [size=11.000000pt]Thank you for choosing CB2. A representative will be with you shortly. [/size]
  [size=11.000000pt]Welcome to CB2. My name is Beth, how may I assist you today? [/size]
  [size=11.000000pt]you: [/size][size=11.000000pt]Hello, Beth. I just bought the go-cart carbon grey three-shelf table. It looks great. What is the weight that each shelf can hold? [/size]
  [size=11.000000pt]Beth: [/size][size=11.000000pt]Hi there! I'd be happy to help you today![/size]
  [size=11.000000pt]Beth: [/size][size=11.000000pt]One moment while I check. [/size]
  [size=11.000000pt]Beth: [/size][size=11.000000pt]The top of the cart will hold 366 lbs and the other 2 shelves can hold 60 lbs each distributed evenly. [/size]
  [size=11.000000pt]you: [/size][size=11.000000pt]Excellent. Thanks for checking. I appreciate it. [/size]
  [size=11.000000pt]Beth: [/size][size=11.000000pt]I am happy you like the cart![/size]
 [size=11.000000pt]Beth: [/size][size=11.000000pt]My pleasure![/size]
 [size=11.000000pt]you: [/size][size=11.000000pt]Hello. [/size]
  [size=11.000000pt]you: [/size][size=11.000000pt]Did you say 366 lbs? Three hundred... and 66?[/size]
  [size=11.000000pt]Beth: [/size][size=11.000000pt]Yes![/size]
 [size=11.000000pt]you: [/size][size=11.000000pt]Wow. I can put my stereo on it. Thanks![/size]
 [size=11.000000pt]Beth: [/size][size=11.000000pt]Wonderful! [/size]


----------



## Xcalibur255

Haha, Clayton that was as entertaining as it was informative.  Thanks for the info.
   
  366lbs is....... a lot.  I hope they don't cost a fortune to ship.  Might have to find something similar locally if that happens.


----------



## dminches

Tyrell, I just got one of the carts. They are very sturdy.


----------



## Silent One

Surely, with Clayton living in Earthquake country, that cart has got a brake.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Here are more pictures of the Russian tube. Besides the different tube shape, do the internals of your C&K look like these photos?
> Look at those spacers that are attached to the top mica and touch the inside glass structure.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!


 
   
  Thanks for the pictures Clayton, my C&K GZ33 looks exactly like in your pictures so it seems C&K is a Russian tube. Thanks!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Is that a Russian tube in disguise? With a saucer-type getter?


 
   
  Yes, so it seems to be. Love that UFO looking getter


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Yes, so it seems to be. Love that UFO looking getter


 
   
  That getter is a telltale sign.
   
  I think the tube might be a 5Ц4С (basically a 5Z4G). See http://trexgroup.ru/upload/gallery/4900b1155277857090e3ccb5392971f7.jpg.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





oskari said:


> That getter is a telltale sign.
> 
> I think the tube might be a 5Ц4С (basically a 5Z4G). See http://trexgroup.ru/upload/gallery/4900b1155277857090e3ccb5392971f7.jpg.


 
   
  So does that make it a GZ30 and not a GZ33? And if so, can it be used in your amp, Glenn?


----------



## Clayton SF

The Russian 5Ц4С (5Z4G) actually came with my Woo 22. Jack Wu shipped it as the stock rectifier. Glenn has told me that any 5-volt octal rectifier will work in his mono blocks so I assume the same will apply to your new amp from Glenn. Am I correct, Glenn?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The Russian 5Ц4С (5Z4G) actually came with my Woo 22. Jack Wu shipped it as the stock rectifier. Glenn has told me that any 5-volt octal rectifier will work in his mono blocks so I assume the same will apply to your new amp from Glenn. Am I correct, Glenn?


 
   
  Ok great, but will it be as good as a GZ33?


----------



## Clayton SF

I listened to the Russian 5Ц4С this morning in Glenn's amps. The sound is very clear and somewhat analytical. Mind you, the tubes I used are NOS and were never broken in. By comparison GZ33 has a warmer and more natural soundstage than the 5Ц4С.
   
  I own two CV1863 (5Z4G) from the Rochester plant. It is also a very nice tube. One of my favorite rectifiers to use in the WA6 and WA22 and now also in Glenn's MBs.
   
  CV1863 (left)


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> So does that make it a GZ30 and not a GZ33?


 
   
  Indeed.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Must get a new GZ33 then. Especially as Glenn said these will go well with his amp


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Must get a new GZ33 then. Especially as Glenn said these will go well with his amp


 
  If you have a GZ37 that will be OK


----------



## rosgr63

A few days ago I received three beautiful rectifiers (and some nice sweets) from Glenn.
   
  I'll take a photo and then I'll evaluate them.
   
  Glenn is helping me shape up with some nice sweets....................that's exactly what I needed after a weekend fighting with a very nasty ebay seller who knowingly sold me a dead tube.
   
  Meantime back to "My Army of Lovers"............


----------



## Silent One

Make sure you let us know who that cat is.


----------



## rosgr63

It's getting worst SO.
   
  Within 4 weeks or so I had to deal with two bad eBay sellers.
  The second seller was nasty and abusive and that upset me more than the dead tube.
   
  I did get my money back but it was a terrible transaction.
   
  Any way, an average (not strong) testing B65 without a proper label/etching sold over $330 yesterday!
  I still can't believe it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> It's getting worst SO.
> 
> Within 4 weeks or so I had to deal with two bad eBay sellers.
> The second seller was nasty and abusive and that upset me more than the dead tube.
> ...


 

 I would report the seller's abusive behavior to eBay immediately. And then get a good night's sleep.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton just as well Glenn sent me some nice sweets with the rectifiers.
   
  Need a nice photo of your amps to cheer me up!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Sure. Okay.
  Here's a panorama of my San Francisco living room with Glenn's living amps!

  Detail--that right speakers looks warped. That's because of my shaky hand:

   

  Behind yah!


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice, thanks!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Very nice, thanks!


 
   
  I too, feel better... thanks Clayton SF! Next time I stop by, I'll bring my tri-pod and let you loose with it.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Sure. Okay.
> Here's a panorama of my San Francisco living room with Glenn's living amps!


 
  Where is your monoblock speaker amp?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Where is your monoblock speaker amp?


 
   
  It's in all the pics??
   
  Thanks Clayton, nice pics. Makes waiting harder though


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hm, I see it now, I was just expecting it to be a lot bigger..


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn's monos, the Havana MHDT tube DAC, the PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport, Jackie Gleason Presents on vinyl, and perfect bliss....


----------



## Silent One

What 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 a Sunday, Clayton!


----------



## longbowbbs

I just love that carbon fiber tonearm!


----------



## Silent One

+1... or 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Formula One?!


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Glenn's monos, the Havana MHDT tube DAC, the PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport, Jackie Gleason Presents on vinyl, and perfect bliss....


 
   
  Hey,
   
  Can you tell me how much you like the Havana DAC.  How does is compare to the other DACs you have?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *preproman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Hey, Can you tell me how much you like the Havana DAC.  How does is compare to the other DACs you have?


 
  Hi preproman. I really like the Havana DAC because it is the only DAC I own that is a non-oversampling DAC. I prefer that over the other DACs that oversample (upsample). The Havana is also uses a vacuum tube so that I like as well. This DAC is very transparent and clean and clear in its presentation when compared to the other DACs I own.
   
  The PS Audio DLIII is another DAC I own and it tends to be a bit boom-y in sound. Nice but with my amp it can get a bit too large sounding (if that is possible).
   
  The other DAC I own is the Cambridge Audio DACMagic. This DAC upsamples as well and it tends to be a bit more analytical. It is a great DAC in its price range of around $500.


----------



## rosgr63

I would also recommend the Stockholm.


----------



## preproman

Thanks Clayton,
   
  I'm assuming your is stock?  I've also seen them modded as well.
   
  I was also looking at the Stockholm.  They have a ver. 2 of the balanced Stockholm coming out soon - I guess.


----------



## rosgr63

Yes they do and I am sure it will be better.
   
  Mine is the upgraded V-Cap CuTF version not a bad DAC, currently running with a TESLA 6CC42.


----------



## wolfetan44

Think Glenn could make an amp specifically for the LCD-2? I wonder if he's listened to it/owns it..


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Think Glenn could make an amp specifically for the LCD-2? I wonder if he's listened to it/owns it..


 
   
  He's building me an amp for my speakers and orthos. That's all I know though.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Yes they do and I am sure it will be better.
> 
> Mine is the upgraded V-Cap CuTF version not a bad DAC, currently running with a TESLA 6CC42.


 
   
  I enjoyed my time with the MHDT Havana DAC (Balanced). Still waiting to hear more impressions about your sup'd up "Stockholm." Yes, I 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 remember the cat who went under the hood, so to speak.


----------



## rosgr63

It's my daily use DAC for now feeding my Glenn OTL.
   
  Need to do some tube rolling with the WE and Bendix.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *preproman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Thanks Clayton,
> I'm assuming your is stock?  I've also seen them modded as well.
> I was also looking at the Stockholm.  They have a ver. 2 of the balanced Stockholm coming out soon - I guess.


 
   
  I am using the JJ 6386 tube. That tube is taller than the stock tube so it stick out more. I got it 3 years ago and it still sounds great now as it did when I first bought it. It was expensive ($100) but worth it. Also, it seems that the tube doesn't get as hot as some other mini tubes do in other amps so perhaps it is running at half the voltage or it just runs cooler than others--it is just a guess.


----------



## Ultrainferno

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649056345-six_nos_metal_base_gz34_rectifier_tubes_package_deal/
   
  $3500 for 6 GZ34? Am I missing something?


----------



## rosgr63

I am going to pass on this "excellent' deal..................
   
  I am very happy with my 3DG4's and the other rectifiers Glenn sent me.
   
*Clayton I never said anything about the delicious Easter Cookies made by L which Glenn just sent, right?*


----------



## hodgjy

Must be cryo treated with unicorn tears and blessed by a singing mermaid.
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649056345-six_nos_metal_base_gz34_rectifier_tubes_package_deal/
> 
> $3500 for 6 GZ34? Am I missing something?


----------



## rosgr63

Jay that's how my cookies were made, how did you know?


----------



## 2359glenn

I never told anybody about the cookies maybe Clayton he is the only other person I talk food with.


----------



## rosgr63

He's probably as bad as me then, well I hope not.


----------



## 2359glenn

I do send him food too( pickled baby beats ) to try a couple of weeks ago he never had them before.
  I supposed to be working


----------



## hodgjy

So that was my grandmother's secret as well!
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Jay that's how my cookies were made, how did you know?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> He's probably as bad as me then, well I hope not.


 
  Nobody is as bad as you maybe me


----------



## Ultrainferno

"Glenn's Amplifier & Cookie Studio". That's probably unique worldwide


----------



## rosgr63

Please don't tell Jay.
  Well, you don't want me to reveal all my tube secrets in one post do you?
   
  We are unique Ultra, you included my friend, just some of us are crazier than others!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Nobody is as bad as you maybe me


 
   
  Not quite yet Glenn, but you are getting there....


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> "Glenn's Amplifier & Cookie Studio". That's probably unique worldwide


 
  Ultra do you want me to put some cookies in with your amp?
  They are quite good and I don't give them to every body only Stavros
  I know he has a sweet tooth


----------



## dminches

I am thinking I am going to return my amp for "repairs".  Hopefully it will come back with sweets!!!


----------



## hodgjy

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Please don't tell Jay.


----------



## hodgjy

Cookies will fit nicely in the transformer housing.
   
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> I am thinking I am going to return my amp for "repairs".  Hopefully it will come back with sweets!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Cookies will fit nicely in the transformer housing.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  I think he meant lot's of cookies as packing material...Greek Yogurt bubble wrap?


----------



## hodgjy

An even better idea!
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I think he meant lot's of cookies as packing material...Greek Yogurt bubble wrap?


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Later in the year when I get an amp from you, I want cookies from you.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I think he meant lot's of cookies as packing material...Greek Yogurt bubble wrap?


 
  I have no Greek Yogurt at least not until I go to Greece.
  We wouldn't want the cookies to get broken.


----------



## 2359glenn

Every body wants cookies my GF is going to kill me.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Every body wants cookies my GF is going to kill me.


 
  Its worth it


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Ultra do you want me to put some cookies in with your amp?
> They are quite good and I don't give them to every body only Stavros
> I know he has a sweet tooth


 

 WANT!
   
  All right! I've heard that some people are hoarding 596 tubes and now it's cookies?
  I love cookies!!! I'll trade a 596 for cookies. Then again, maybe I won't.
  Ultra sent me candies! The shipping charge itself could have purchased a 5U4GB tube.
  Cookies, candies, pickled beets, and amps.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> We are unique Ultra, you included my friend, just some of us are crazier than others!


 
   
  Hanging out with you guys here sure is speeding up the process! 
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Ultra do you want me to put some cookies in with your amp?
> They are quite good and I don't give them to every body only Stavros
> I know he has a sweet tooth


 
   
  I would like them very much. I'll send you some Belgian candy. Clayton and Dminches seemed to like it 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> WANT!
> 
> All right! I've heard that some people are hoarding 596 tubes and now it's cookies?
> I love cookies!!! I'll trade a 596 for cookies. Then again, maybe I won't.
> ...


 
   
  You're worth it C.
  Just enjoy them and don't eat too many at a time. Oh and I'm not responsible for your dentist bill


----------



## dminches

The Belgium candies from Lieven were excellent.  Notice the word "were."


----------



## rosgr63

David you are supposed to be controlling us, not letting us loose.
   
  SO I apologise for all the cookies talk I have been very bad again, sorry.
   
  To make up for it here's my latest report:
   
  For the last few days I have been trying on my Glenn OTL a very rare Tung-Sol Mouse Ears 6SN7 with a top D or horse shoe getter and very tall glass.
  It doesn't sound as nice as the ordinary Mouse Ears, thin and lean for my taste.
  It's not worth paying a premium unless you collect rare tubes.
   
  or
   
  You are tube crazy and like cookies!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> "Glenn's Amplifier & Cookie Studio". That's probably unique worldwide


 
   




  I'm really going to have shop there now!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> David you are supposed to be controlling us, not letting us loose.
> 
> SO I apologise for all the cookies talk I have been very bad again, sorry.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Since the listening room is now but a distant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 memory, time to shift my thoughts toward Pies, Cakes & 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Cobblers!


----------



## rosgr63

What's up SO?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> What's up SO?


 
  SO is being very efficient. He is combining a move to a new home, spring cleaning and a re-do of the rig all at once....Not a bad thing. I am very intrigued with what the final rig will be!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm going to follow in the steps of La Parisienne and mix a few older pieces with something new. For example, I will attempt to buy some vintage Klipsch speakers to pair with my vintage Sansui G-22000. And then bring in a WA5... (Black) for a more modern head-fi experience.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice indeed!


----------



## Silent One

Make no mistake, I have a few projects in mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




for our resident guru. Even if it means selling off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the commercial gear to fund them.


----------



## 2359glenn

I built this amp over the weekend


----------



## dminches

Very nice.  Is that a solenoid power switch?  Did you do the wood working?


----------



## Frank I

Glen that looks very nice indeed. is that the OTL as well that I asked to be built as well.


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's the big version of the OTL. Very nicely done Glenn, love the wood! I've only I had known...


----------



## rosgr63

Stunning!
  Well done!


----------



## longbowbbs

Another beautiful design....I would love to hear it!


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I built this amp over the weekend


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> That's the big version of the OTL. Very nicely done Glenn, love the wood! I've only I had known...


 
   
  You're next!


----------



## hodgjy

That is absolutely gorgeous!  You are a true master craftsman.
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I built this amp over the weekend


----------



## Skylab

That is truly beautiful. Nice!


----------



## wotts

Excellent work Glenn!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ OMG, Glenn. At first I thought the chassis was made of black leather and wood.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton can you see the cookies in the photo or is it me hallucinating?


----------



## hodgjy

I think the whole thing is a cake shaped and colored to look like an amp.  Crystal candy make the tubes.
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton can you see the cookies in the photo or is it me hallucinating?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I think the whole thing is a cake shaped and colored to look like an amp.  Crystal candy make the tubes.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  Sweet!....er....Is that redundant?


----------



## Clayton SF

Travel plans have been finalized! I'm visiting Ultrainferno in August! I wonder if I can stuff Glenn's mono blocks in my backpack?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Travel plans have been finalized! I'm visiting Ultrainferno in August! I wonder if I can stuff Glenn's mono blocks in my backpack?



  
 Excellent news! I already knew of it of course, but still 
 Oh, don't forget to bring your backpack to take the WA2 back


----------



## longbowbbs

You will need a bigger pack!...here is a good one...
   
  http://duluthpack.com/outdoor-gear/camping-hiking-gear/packs/canoe-packs/duluth-pack-4-monarch.html


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Travel plans have been finalized! I'm visiting Ultrainferno in August! I wonder if I can stuff Glenn's mono blocks in my backpack?


 
   
   
  Well Done!
   
  Where there is a  will there is a way.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Lovely work as usual.  Now we just need to get the new owner to hang out in here every once in a while.  I might have to do a little prodding.


----------



## 2359glenn

I can't even get in touch with the new owner to get his amp ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

He's been offline for 3 days, 13 hours. Business trip maybe?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Travel plans have been finalized! I'm visiting Ultrainferno in August! I wonder if I can stuff Glenn's mono blocks in my backpack?


 
  That is great Clayton I know you will have a good time.
  I cant Waite to go to Athens and see Stavros. We shouldn't be allowed to get together
  we will be bad bad bad. My GF already knows this I am not sure his does though.
   
  No need to bring the mono blocks Ultra will have a similar amp by then just stereo not mono blocks.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> He's been offline for 3 days, 13 hours. Business trip maybe?


 
  Ultra do you like the power switch on this amp?
  I was planning on useing it on yours.


----------



## Ultrainferno

It could do but it does look very bright. Does it?


----------



## 2359glenn

It is very bright I can put a larger resistor to drop the voltage
  more to dim it down some


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> It is very bright I can put a larger resistor to drop the voltage
> more to dim it down some


 
   
  Is it not the same button as this one is it?
   

   
  Dimming it down would be good if you go for the button used in the wooden chassis. Go ahead.
  Did you get my PM with the other "wishes"?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I can't even get in touch with the new owner to get his amp ?


 
   
  (Silent One quietly contemplates... an 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




auction).


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Is it not the same button as this one is it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  No it is not it is a much better switch but it does have 6 LEDs in it I can make it quite dim if you want


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> No it is not it is a much better switch but it does have 6 LEDs in it I can make it quite dim if you want


 
   
  Yes dim it then please. thanks!


----------



## 2359glenn

I have to order you a Alps pot for the volume
   only have stepped attenuators right now.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I have to order you a Alps pot for the volume
> only have stepped attenuators right now.


 
   
  Yes please, thanks!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Glenn, the owner for the new amp doesn't check the site everyday anymore.  Hopefully he will see he has a message, but the last time I talked to him it took a while to hear back.
   
  Ultra, the switch is a Schurter industrial security switch.  Overkill but pure quality.  I spent ages looking for an aviation toggle switch with an LED in the tip that could handle the necessary current, but that proved impossible.  I stumbled upon this and decided it was the next best thing.
   
  If you don't mind me asking why don't you want a stepped attenuator?
   
  And would you all stop showing the world my dust?


----------



## Silent One

You're famous... put your name and amp up in lights!


----------



## Xcalibur255

My dust is famous maybe.  There is a reason why I don't post more pictures.


----------



## Silent One

Yeah, dust has been known to interfere with an otherwise perfect shot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Meanwhile, I've not a spec of dust inside the boxes housing my gear. I wanna return to listening sessions so bad... I am suffering.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Ultra, the switch is a Schurter industrial security switch.  Overkill but pure quality.  I spent ages looking for an aviation toggle switch with an LED in the tip that could handle the necessary current, but that proved impossible.  I stumbled upon this and decided it was the next best thing.
> 
> If you don't mind me asking why don't you want a stepped attenuator?


 
   
  You're talking about the power button in your amp, right?It looks cool and sturdy. I just didn't want a flick switch and this new one looked too bright, but Glenn has it covered.
  I'm lucky to be able to listen to lots of different amps and each time a stepped attenuator is used it bugs me. I don't like the feel, I can't really hear a difference in sound, and I often want just that volume in between  . The worst one is on the Burson amps. I know most people prefer a stepped pot and probably it's just me being crazy but I don't like them. The only amp I have with a stepped attenuator is Clayton's WA2, and if there's anything I dislike of the WA2, it's probably the volume control (the amp is great). The Violectric V200 doesn't have a stepped control but uses a 41 detent pot from ALPS, I could live with that type of volume controls on all amplifiers.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm taking about the switch in the new amp Glenn built, but it will show up in mine too.
   
  I can definitely understand the logic, most people who liked stepped pots do so because of their mechanical feel but I can see some people feeling the opposite way.  Their only real benefit is guaranteeing channel balance really, especially at lower volumes.  The more steps the nicer the feel in my experience.
   
  Most regular pots don't have an accurate taper either, the only amp I have ever used that did was my Woo.  I don't know which one of the Alps pots they use but that should be the model for that type of attenuator.


----------



## john57

If you wanted the very best Alps pot that would be the ALPS RK50 which is ridiculous expensive. My only problem with a stepped pot is that they wear out just as fast as a regular pot and can become noisy between steps switching.


----------



## dminches

I just find there are times when the stepped pot has too much of a volume difference between 2 different steps.  Can someone explain why they need to be stepped at all?  Why can't it be continuous?


----------



## hodgjy

From my understanding is it is a different circuit type that ensures no channel imbalance.
   
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> I just find there are times when the stepped pot has too much of a volume difference between 2 different steps.  Can someone explain why they need to be stepped at all?  Why can't it be continuous?


----------



## john57

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I just find there are times when the stepped pot has too much of a volume difference between 2 different steps.  Can someone explain why they need to be stepped at all?  Why can't it be continuous?


 
  Stepped pots are usually switches that switch out different fixed resistors in a bank instead of a wiper on a variable resistor pad.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Stepped pots are usually switches that switch out different fixed resistors in a bank instead of a wiper on a variable resistor pad.


 
   
  Good explanation.
   
  So, what are considered the better stepped pots?
   
  Glenn, which one did you use in my amp (not that I have any issue with it).


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Good explanation.
> 
> So, what are considered the better stepped pots?
> 
> Glenn, which one did you use in my amp (not that I have any issue with it).


 
  Your amp has a stepped attenuator.
   
  Usually stepped attenuators are more accurate especially at low volume and track better if they use 1% resistors
   
  The bad part is Sometimes you want to listen to a volume that would be in between steps .
   
  So there are pros and cons. Personally I prefer stepped attenuators I have a expensive alps pot in my preamp
   
  and it doesn't track right. Pisses me off every time I want to listen at low volume.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn you have a good excuse to listen loud, haven't you?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn you have a good excuse to listen loud, haven't you?


 
  That would just another reason to be in trouble


----------



## rosgr63

YES!!!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










   Cookies and loud music, can't get better than this!


----------



## 2359glenn

You are eating cookies 
I Haave none guess I have to talk to tithe cookie maker
That means I have to be good no blasting jazz


----------



## rosgr63

*I PLEAD GUILTY!!!*
   
  I am stealing the cookies, eating and listening to Bajofondo Presente.


----------



## 2359glenn

You are going to have none for Easter
Guess you would have had more if I didn't eat 25 of them QCing them
I am still in trouble for that one
It is only right that you get caught stealing them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

QC is important.  Just say you're trying to get the baking ISO certified.


----------



## rosgr63

Can I apply for that job please?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Testing/checking amps and cookies..........that would be prety close to absolute bliss, woudn't it?


----------



## john57

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Good explanation.
> 
> So, what are considered the better stepped pots?
> 
> Glenn, which one did you use in my amp (not that I have any issue with it).


 
  The Dale stepped pots are common. The very best could be the Goldpoint stepped attenuator that has *.*1% [size=x-small]tolerance thin film resistors and [size=x-small]assembled in the USA. I do not have a lot of experience with steeped pots but like Glenn I can easily hear the imbalance of standard pots. [/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Some pre-amps uses relays to switch resistors on the main board but can be a bit more nosier. [/size][/size]


----------



## Xcalibur255

I ponied up for a Goldpoint for my amp build.  I really wanted to use a Khozmo unit because they have 48 steps but I kept reading reports that they had unreliable wiper contacts.  It seems like a lot of money for a volume control but I still feel it is worth it.
   
  The Valab stepped pot that I had Glenn put in my OTL when it got modded works really well but their physical mechanical feel when you turn them is a bit crude.  But the price and performance is good.  Glenn said it measured very well when he tested it and they're 1/8 the price of the Goldpoint.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I can't even get in touch with the new owner to get his amp ?


 
   
  He do was online 4 hours ago. Hope you got in touch with him.
   
  Besides the 300B JJ's, what other other (affordable) ones do you all recommend? (sound can be a bit rolled off in the treble, as long as bass and mids are full bodied, with a good to heavy bass impact)


----------



## rosgr63

You might want to try the Svetlana C-Wing.
   
  However there are a lot of quality issues so best to buy from a reputable seller.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Can I apply for that job please?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That job has already been taken.      It's my job 
  And you are right it is bliss


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I would be careful around the electronics with the drool......


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I ponied up for a Goldpoint for my amp build.  I really wanted to use a Khozmo unit because they have 48 steps but I kept reading reports that they had unreliable wiper contacts.  It seems like a lot of money for a volume control but I still feel it is worth it.
> 
> The Valab stepped pot that I had Glenn put in my OTL when it got modded works really well but t heir physical mechanical feel when you turn them is a bit crude.  But the price and performance is good.  Glenn said it measured very well when he tested it and they're 1/8 the price of the Goldpoint.


 
  I would like to use Goldpoint made in the USA but I cant justify the cost and no
  difference in sound. $150 for a pot is allot of money. And I have found out it is not necessarily the
  most expensive parts that sound best.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> He do was online 4 hours ago. Hope you got in touch with him.
> 
> Besides the 300B JJ's, what other other (affordable) ones do you all recommend? (sound can be a bit rolled off in the treble, as long as bass and mids are full bodied, with a good to heavy bass impact)


 
  Yes I got in touch with Groundzero yesterday and will be shipping him the amp on Monday.
   
  For the price I really don't know of better 300Bs I have tried a bunch over the years and most
  including the JJ had problems with the filament burning out. The worst were some Fairlie expensive mesh plate
  tubes from USA but made in China. They had misaligned grids and that gave them hot spots on the plate.
  I got rid of them and bought JJs


----------



## Silent One

Bad 300B's? The 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 horror!


----------



## john57

I have brought some new production JJ tubes and they can sound very good as compared to NOS tubes but suffer some consistency issues along tubes. I never had much luck in getting good sounding China tubes.


----------



## Silent One

While standing in line for an eventual 300B amp, there's anxiety waiting with me.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> That job has already been taken.      It's my job
> And you are right it is bliss


 
   
  Design, Research & Development and Production must be separate from QC.
   
  I want the QC/testing part.
   
*Please!!!!!!*




   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I would be careful around the electronics with the drool......


 
   
   
  Any suggestions?
  Would an apron help?
  Eric, please help!
   
   
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> I have brought some new production JJ tubes and they can sound very good as compared to NOS tubes but suffer some consistency issues along tubes. I never had much luck in getting good sounding China tubes.


 
   
   
  The JJ are not bad but for good sounding 300B's without spending a lot of money I recommend the KR 300B Balloon.
   
  Glenn the so called Chinese Mesh plates are not a real Mesh design but a punched out plate.
  I had the genuine Mesh Type AVVT AV300BM SL C37 (Ennemoser) and they sounded fantastic.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have a solution!


----------



## rosgr63

Fantastic, thanks that's exactly what I need!
   
  I might show you my AVVT PX4 Mesh, the logos match with the bib................


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Fantastic, thanks that's exactly what I need!
> 
> I might show you my AVVT PX4 Mesh, the logos match with the bib................


 
  LOL!!


----------



## rosgr63

David please rescue me!
   
  I wanted to start an intelligent post about Mesh Pentodes driving Mesh DHT and thanks to Glenn and Eric I ended up talking about bibs and cookies!


----------



## dminches

Stavros, you are in the wrong folder. This is a discussion of treats. Yes, tubes are treats, but they do not taste well


----------



## rosgr63

There is no hope then for me is there?
   
  Can I talk about Box Plates VT-52's?


----------



## Clayton SF

The 300B tubes are cool looking. Has anyone heard the VA 300B?
  http://www.enjoythemusic.com/channel/ch300b/


----------



## john57

The main reason that I was interested with the 300B tubes was that the Woo WA5 was fantastic sounding amp. I know nothing about VT-52 tubes. My "'idea" tube amp would have digital control with display over the high voltage and bias. I noticed that voltage operating point and bias can make quite a bit of difference in SQ within reason with the 6AS7/6080 amps. I am getting the impression that various 300B tubes will sound the best with slightly different voltage and bias depending on who makes them. Of course any audio coupling caps can make a difference. What about bee wax caps? You have to wait for the cap to warm up and the wax turns into a liquid for best sound?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Design, Research & Development and Production must be separate from QC.
> 
> I want the QC/testing part.
> 
> *Please!!!!!!*


 
     You never can tell you might get your wish.
   
  Then you will find out hard it is to listen to music evaluating a new amp and eating home made cookies.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The 300B tubes are cool looking. Has anyone heard the VA 300B?
> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/channel/ch300b/


 
  You can try them but I wouldn't pay much more then the JJs cost


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You can try them but I wouldn't pay much more then the JJs cost


 

 The Value Art is $100. The JJ is $110.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





john57 said:


> The main reason that I was interested with the 300B tubes was that the Woo WA5 was fantastic sounding amp. I know nothing about VT-52 tubes. My "'idea" tube amp would have digital control with display over the high voltage and bias. I noticed that voltage operating point and bias can make quite a bit of difference in SQ within reason with the 6AS7/6080 amps. I am getting the impression that various 300B tubes will sound the best with slightly different voltage and bias depending on who makes them. Of course any audio coupling caps can make a difference. What about bee wax caps? You have to wait for the cap to warm up and the wax turns into a liquid for best sound?


 
  The amps I built Clayton he can adjust the bias but not the B+ other then by changing the rectifier.
  I really don't like putting another tube or transistor in line with the power.
  What device would be used for the regulator another 300B?
  I have found that 300Bs sound best when run at 425 to 450 volts Clayton's amps will run them at
  425 if he uses a GZ37 rectifier. they sound best when run hot and this is no problem for JJ 300Bs


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The Value Art is $100. The JJ is $110.


 
  I would try them at that price what do you have to loose $200


----------



## john57

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The amps I built Clayton he can adjust the bias but not the B+ other then by changing the rectifier.
> I really don't like putting another tube or transistor in line with the power.
> What device would be used for the regulator another 300B?
> I have found that 300Bs sound best when run at 425 to 450 volts Clayton's amps will run them at
> 425 if he uses a GZ37 rectifier. they sound best when run hot and this is no problem for JJ 300Bs


 
  Yes that would be more practical by changing the rectifier to adjust the B+ There was a tube amp in the KickStart program that would have the digital control but did not received the required funding to start. If I had the choice for the first 300B tube I would stick with the JJ just simply my experience with Chinese tubes of other types have not been good in different amps. Generally I find that Russian tubes hold up a bit better than the Chinese tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ah, a beautiful view from above.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Yes that would be more practical by changing the rectifier to adjust the B+ There was a tube amp in the KickStart program that would have the digital control but did not received the required funding to start. If I had the choice for the first 300B tube I would stick with the JJ just simply my experience with Chinese tubes of other types have not been good in different amps. Generally I find that Russian tubes hold up a bit better than the Chinese tubes.


 
  Could use a 300b or a 6AS7 for the series pass tube. The 6AS7 would only be able to adjust the B+ by 125 volts


----------



## john57

That's looks very nice!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





john57 said:


> That's looks very nice!


 

 Thanks to Glenn. And it sounds as good as it looks, too. Beauty and musicality sublime!


----------



## 2359glenn

You can see the bias meters and to the right is the bias pot


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You can see the bias meters and to the right is the bias pot


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah, a beautiful view from above.


 
   
  What a Fantastic Finish to a Friday Night!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Could use a 300b or a 6AS7 for the series pass tube. The 6AS7 would only be able to adjust the B+ by 125 volts


 
  That is quite a range actually. I did not gave much thought about using a series pass tube before.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You never can tell you might get your wish.
> 
> Then you will find out hard it is to listen to music evaluating a new amp and eating home made cookies.


 
   
  You are very wrong Glenn.
  I leave the amp side to you, no way I can do the QC anywhere near as good as you.
   
  I was talking about the cookies...................


----------



## Frank I

Glenn busy eating his cookies and building the next amp. I wont get mine till July. LOL I have some other toys in the meantime to keep me busy and still waiting for the Stratus in June. I been having fun working in my review with the Woo WA7. Its all good but really looking forward to Glenn's amp to  drive the Taboo Mk111 as well as use with some high impedance cans.


----------



## rosgr63

That's vey exciting Frank.
   
  What headphones do you plan to use?
   
  What 2A3's will the Stratus be fitted with?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> That's vey exciting Frank.
> 
> What headphones do you plan to use?
> 
> What 2A3's will the Stratus be fitted with?


 
  I plan to use the HD800,LCD 2.2.,At3000 ANV  with the Stratus and so far i have narrowed it down to the eML Mesh plates and will decide on what NOS I can find matched either the RCA,Ked Rad or Sylvania. I may also decide to change  as I also will be considering the Sophia mesh plates as well. I will only need the twos sets plus the stock and have plenty of rectifiers  for the amp. I like the Sylvania  5U4G I had in the demo unit that Donald sent me. Usually when I like tubes they stay in for a while before I swap them around. I Have settled on the tubes i am using in the taboo Mk 111 and when I first had the amp I I tried 5 or 6 combos but the one in there now have been there  and not swapped. I will do the same with the Stratus and Glenn OTL when I get them.  You can get crazy swapping tubes all the time.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Glenn busy eating his cookies and building the next amp. I wont get mine till July.


 
   
  I hope my stereo amp gets here before Glenn goes eat cookies,drink Metaxa/Ouzo/Rakia & talk tubes in Athens (jealous!). I really can't wait 
  What actually would you call my amp Glenn?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I hope my stereo amp gets here before Glenn goes eat cookies,drink Metaxa/Ouzo/Rakia & talk tubes in Athens (jealous!). I really can't wait
> What actually would you call my amp Glenn?


 
  Has Glenn or anyone else named Glenn OTL. If Glenn can do that it would be nice or maybe if Glenn does not want to name his puppy maybe he will allow the community to do it with a vote.  Does it already have a name?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Has Glenn or anyone else named Glenn OTL. If Glenn can do that it would be nice or maybe if Glenn does not want to name his puppy maybe he will allow the community to do it with a vote.  Does it already have a name?


 
   
  Most people have the Glenn OTL. Clayton has Glenn's Mono Blocks and I have something in between


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Most people have the Glenn OTL. Clayton has Glenn's Mono Blocks and I have something in between


 
  I was talking about the name for the amps
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. We should have names for the models he has been building. Just a suggestion  I see it being referred to the Glenn OTL and that is cool  also.  Glenn are you building any other amps?  Can you do a 2A3 speaker amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You are very wrong Glenn.
> I leave the amp side to you, no way I can do the QC anywhere near as good as you.
> 
> I was talking about the cookies...................


 
  No I do math and Engineering you guys determine what sounds good or not.
  That is why I need a opinion on what a new amp sounds like I can't trust my ears.
  Cookies just make it sound better.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I hope my stereo amp gets here before Glenn goes eat cookies,drink Metaxa/Ouzo/Rakia & talk tubes in Athens (jealous!). I really can't wait
> What actually would you call my amp Glenn?


 
  I will be making your amp as soon as I get the volume pot from Japan. Actually I started on the chassis today.
  What to call it? It is a 300B stereo intergrated? It should sound the same as Clayton's mono block's the circuit will be the same
  The difference will be it will only have one power transformer powering both left and right amps.
   
  Oh if I know my GF she will have made cookies to ship to Athens before we leave for there. This is why I have
  gotem so dam fat now I think she is getting Stavros fat too.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I will be making your amp as soon as I get the volume pot from Japan. Actually I started on the chassis today.
> What to call it? It is a 300B stereo intergrated? It should sound the same as Clayton's mono block's the circuit will be the same
> The difference will be it will only have one power transformer powering both left and right amps.
> 
> ...


 
   
  "Glenn's 300B Stereo integrated" it is! Clayton seems to love his amps, so I have full confidence in what you will create.
  Belgium and Holland are known for a special blend of cookies, but we might get arrested if I ship those


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> "Glenn's 300B Stereo integrated" it is! Clayton seems to love his amps, so I have full confidence in what you will create.
> Belgium and Holland are known for a special blend of cookies, but we might get arrested if I ship those


 
   
  At least that "blend" won't be responsible for anyone resisting arrest.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> "Glenn's 300B Stereo integrated" it is! Clayton seems to love his amps, so I have full confidence in what you will create.
> Belgium and Holland are known for a special blend of cookies, but we might get arrested if I ship those


 
  Your amp will sound the same as Clayton's I guess they sound good .  He says that they sound better then his Leben CS600
  I really cant understand that they have all the resources and I am just a jamoke. And the Leben cost allot more.
  I would like your special cookies but you better not ship them to the USA


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> "Glenn's 300B Stereo integrated" it is! Clayton seems to love his amps, so I have full confidence in what you will create.
> Belgium and Holland are known for a special blend of cookies, but we might get arrested if I ship those


 
  By special delivery. This delivery service truck was parked outside of my office building in San Francisco.


----------



## john57

I just got back from a CAS meeting in Denver as a  private group at the  Gates Planetarium after hours.  I brought some of my audio files for music play playback on the 50ft. dome with 12,425 watts of power sounds though 15.1 channels.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  We were show how stereo files can be molded for playback on 15.1 channels. We were also given a private tour behind the dome!


----------



## Silent One

To CAS!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I will be making your amp as soon as I get the volume pot from Japan. Actually I started on the chassis today.
> What to call it? It is a 300B stereo intergrated? It should sound the same as Clayton's mono block's the circuit will be the same
> The difference will be it will only have one power transformer powering both left and right amps.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Glenn please ask L not to send more cookies, or else I'll have no clothes to wear.
   
  I've become a cookie addict now, I'll trade my VT-52's for them.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn please ask L not to send more cookies, or else I'll have no clothes to wear.
> 
> I've become a cookie addict now, I'll trade my VT-52's for them.


 
  Stavros do you have a amp that uses these special 45s??
  How do they sound?


----------



## rosgr63

You'll find out in person.
   
  I will remain silent so anything I say will not be held against me!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You'll find out in person.
> 
> I will remain silent so anything I say will not be held against me!


 
  OK
   
   
  you do know That nothing can beat the sound of direct heated triodes.
  My speaker amp 26 > 10 > 300B
   
  l want to know, what kind of cookies?   L


----------



## rosgr63

L please bring them over when you come.
*Please don't let Glenn have any, not even any doe!*
   
  I only have head phone amps Glenn.
   
  Her's another pair you might like:


----------



## Oskari

Lovely tube photos around here...


----------



## rosgr63

Oskari can you please reconfirm the B65 Philips date code L7F?
   
  Thanks
   
*EDIT* I know Philips never made any B65's they have been mislabelled.


----------



## Oskari

Certainly. L7F = MBLE, Brussels, June 1957. B65 is a MOV type code, though.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Oskari, I'll post the tube photos soon.
   
  Indeed they are Dutch made 6SN7 marked as B65 which totally wrong.


----------



## Oskari

Belgian, my friend, Belgian.


----------



## Clayton SF

It seems that Holland and Belgium have tube dominance here.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Belgian, my friend, Belgian.


 
   
  Sorry, but of course, slip of the tongue.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It seems that Holland and Belgium have tube dominance here.


 
   
  Clayton please don't start me up with that cookie and chocolate talk, I am trying to be serious!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Here are the "B65's"


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> you do know That nothing can beat the sound of direct heated triodes.
> My speaker amp 26 > 10 > 300B


 
   
  Great! Now I can make sure to stand in the correct line this autumn...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> L please bring them over when you come.
> *Please don't let Glenn have any, not even any doe!*
> 
> I only have head phone amps Glenn.
> ...


 
  Those are beutiful tubes.
  I won't ask I'll find out when I get there.
  Shure side with her.


----------



## rosgr63

If I have to take a side, you know who's side I am going to take.
  You know where my loyalty is.........sorry but L rules!
   
  They are NIB VT-52's.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Here are the "B65's"


 
   
  Ah, the B65 type markings actually make sense because the tubes are Marconi-branded.


----------



## warchild

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> you do know That nothing can beat the sound of direct heated triodes.
> My speaker amp 26 > 10 > 300B


 
   
  This brings to mind a long lost plan of mine; to supplement my HTR (Denon) with a separate stereo system for just music. It's still something to think about.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> If I have to take a side, you know who's side I am going to take.
> You know where my loyalty is.........sorry but L rules!
> 
> They are NIB VT-52's.


 
  thanks    L    XOXOXO


----------



## longbowbbs

I go camping for a couple of days and I get blamed for Stavros' weight gain....I try and be helpful and look what happens! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Here is my addition to the recent tube pics:
   
   

   
  I think it is an input tube given the quality of the chocolate!
   
  I am sure it MUST be Belgian chocolate.....


----------



## rosgr63

Eric, this is the best tube I've ever seen!!!!!!!!!
   
  Tell me it's not real please.


----------



## Silent One

You'll likely need a modified 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tube-tester. And face daily testing limits, as it will have an impact on your work/chores.


----------



## rosgr63

SO, you realize there is a conspiracy against my sanity from:
   
  Glenn, Clayton and Eric.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  To my surprise David is not helping me out, I thought he was my friend.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I will retaliate though with more of my tube photos soon.
   
  Ultra has been helping me out with some very interesting finds.


----------



## Silent One

Yeah, I do. Been watchin' with interest.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Ultra has been helping me out with some very interesting finds.


 
   
  We Europeans have to stick together!
  Too bad it didn't turn out the way we would have wished this time with the VT-52


----------



## rosgr63

Yes, I need all the help I can get, thanks.
   
  We'll get lucky one of these days.
   
  BTW I like your signature/quote.


----------



## dminches

Stavros, I've got your back, but I am also being influenced by Lieven's box of candy, which is now empty.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm slowly trying to win the Americans over. Does it show?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> We Europeans have to stick together!


 
   
  ....Like melted chocolate....


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Stavros, I've got your back, but I am also being influenced by Lieven's box of candy, which is now empty.


 
   
  I was about to say *Et tu, Brute?*
  Now I feel much better!
   
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> ....Like melted chocolate....


 
   
   
  Sometimes one can rescue a noisy/misbehaving tube, but this could be more serious!


----------



## 2359glenn

I just got back to work after taking Groundzero's amp to the post office
  Now I can concentrate on Ultrainferno's amp tonight if I don't get side tracked by cookies and chocolate tubes.
  Us Americans can easily be won over with candy.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I just got back to work after taking Groundzero's amp to the post office
> Now I can concentrate on Ultrainferno's amp tonight if I don't get side tracked by cookies and chocolate tubes.


 
   
   
  Well done another lucky owner!
   
        Us Americans can easily be won over with candy.
   
  We Europeans are even worst, that's why we made them first!!!!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









   
*PS I don't want to start any candy wars.............please ignore my comment above.*


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> ....Like melted chocolate....


 
   
  Is that an E.A.T. tube? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm slowly trying to win the Americans over. Does it show?


 
   
  You won me over last year.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You won me over last year.


 
   
  Few beers, candy and S. did the trick


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Well done another lucky owner!
> 
> Us Americans can easily be won over with candy.
> 
> ...


 
   Candy wars you already won the cookie war I can't have any now.
  After this weekend I will never get cookies   and you came out a Greek God and L will make you any cookie you want.
  Luckily I still have some of the Cadbury Creme Eggs you sent!!


----------



## rosgr63

I hope L won't be disappointed too much when she meets a fat, short and ugly EAT 300B tube lover instead!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Candy wars you already won the cookie war I can't have any now.
> After this weekend I will never get cookies   and you came out a Greek God and L will make you any cookie you want.
> Luckily I still have some of the Cadbury Creme Eggs you sent!!


 

 Let me know when you're out. I'll hook you up


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ya know... During the War it was Chocolate and nylons...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  I don't know if it was an E.A.T. tube, but it was in good taste!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Let me know when you're out. I'll hook you up


 
  I will have to steal and send some cookies with your amp that would
  originally Ben destined to go to Greece


----------



## rosgr63

*YOU DARE!!!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## rosgr63

But then again Ultra is a friend even if he eats my cookies.


----------



## rosgr63

Here's some more tube candy for the cookie lovers:


----------



## 2359glenn

Look like more VT52s


----------



## rosgr63

Indeed with the ceramic spacers and box plates.
  According to some audio tubes can't get much better than this.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> But then again Ultra is a friend even if he eats my cookies.


 
   
  They're trying to break our European connection!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Okay. I am _*not*_ part of the cookie and amp club. Maybe the candies and amp club but not the cookies and amp club. I'll have to travel to Belgium and visit Ultra before I get to taste those infamous cookies. Unless, of course, Ultra has eaten them all up by then. He has no control. He cannot be stopped!


----------



## rosgr63

No way Ultra......
   
  Glenn been such a good friend is trying to cure me from my cookie addiction, that's all.
   
  He knows too well how bad I am, L doesn't which is just as well.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Okay. I am _*not*_ part of the cookie and amp club. Maybe the candies and amp club but not the cookies and amp club. I'll have to travel to Belgium and visit Ultra before I get to taste those infamous cookies. Unless, of course, Ultra has eaten them all up by then. He has no control. He cannot be stopped!


 
   
  That's true actually. I've been going at the coconut sand cookies lately...
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> No way Ultra......
> 
> Glenn been such a good friend is trying to cure me from my cookie addiction, that's all.
> 
> He knows too well how bad I am, L doesn't which is just as well.


 
   
  I'll be more then happy then to help you go cold turkey!


----------



## rosgr63

Better there's no cookies left before Clayton comes.
  Brussels is only 3 hours away for me, I'll just ensure there's non left..........


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Indeed with the ceramic spacers and box plates.
> According to some audio tubes can't get much better than this.


 
  I will have to take the GE globe 210s box plate out of my amps and take a picture
  after work. I am useing them as a driver for 300Bs.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Better there's no cookies left before Clayton comes.
> Brussels is only 3 hours away for me, I'll just ensure there's non left..........


 
  You guys are making me hungry....Good thing I will have 10K in this afternoon!


----------



## rosgr63

What's that Eric?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> What's that Eric?


 
  Running 10 Kilometers.... I run about 30-40K per week.....it keeps the cookies and chocolate somewhat at bay.


----------



## rosgr63

Well done!!!
   
  Just ate a lot of H&D ice cream and I can't sleep now.............I'll be counting cookies all night long to see if that helps.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Well done!!!
> 
> Just ate a lot of H&D ice cream and I can't sleep now.............I'll be counting cookies all night long to see if that helps.


 
  Ah, the old days!...Enjoy!


----------



## john57

I was checking on what my next dream tube amp will be. I checked with the 6v6 and the 845/211 tubes but it seems that I go back to the 300B tube. Something similar to the Woo design but with additional fine tuning of the B+ and bias capability. During the CAS meet at the Gates Planetarium one of the sound Parameters used was the sharpness control which reminds me of my experiments with different rectifiers on the 6AS7/6080. I have one tube amp with adjustable bias which would be my QuickSilver M135 mono blocks but I would first think of it as a dynamic control. One last thing, I want my dream 300B amp to be in chocolate color!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm slowly trying to win the Americans over. Does it show?


----------



## rosgr63

John it sounds as though you had a great time.
   
  Please don't talk about dream amps in chocolate colour.........
   
  Eric, you'll be pleased to know I counted millions of cookies and still couldn't sleep from been too full...........and thinking about Ultra's VT52's.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> John it sounds as though you had a great time.
> 
> Please don't talk about dream amps in chocolate colour.........
> 
> Eric, you'll be pleased to know I counted millions of cookies and still couldn't sleep from been too full...........and thinking about Ultra's VT52's.


 
  I wondered if perhaps you were up really early!


----------



## rosgr63

Maybe I should come with you (driving along) in one of your long walks to keep you entertained with some nice music of your choice.
   
  I think it was Ultra's VT52's not H&D that kept me awake!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## john57

I can not stop thinking about getting a 300B tube amp and I was thinking about trading in my Counterpoint SA220 Hybrid Power Amp that has the special clear top for that tube glow or my QuickSilver M135 mono blocks. The trouble with the M135 the shipping weight is going to be 80lb+ each. 
Last Sunday I heard the Copland's Symphony No. 3 with the Colorado Symphony Orchestra. This piece is like the extended version of Copland: Fanfare for the Common Man. 
The dream lives on.


----------



## rosgr63

John is that a 300B speaker or headphone amp you are thinking about?


----------



## john57

[size=11pt]Just a headphone 300B amp with pre outputs for my active near-fields monitors. The room is small and the near-fields have many advantages and are less affected by room limitations. I am using my near-fields more than my main speakers. So much music to listen over 800CD's and next on my list is the Mahler Symphony No.1 by the Berlin Orchestra in Singapore in 3D. I also discovered and enjoy streaming live of all the Berlin Orchestra concerts many by Sir Simon Rattle in HD and the archives. Works quite well in fact. Sound is 48K 24bit Stereo.[/size]


----------



## rosgr63

Why not a #45 type amp then?
   
  Your choice of music is excellent.
   
  I am stuck with My Army of Lovers.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Why not a #45 type amp then?
> 
> Your choice of music is excellent.
> 
> I am stuck with My Army of Lovers.


 
   
  I have not read much useful info on the 45/2A3 tubes and I do not have a opinion yet on them. It may be a matter on how they are built.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I can not stop thinking about getting a 300B tube amp and I was thinking about trading in my Counterpoint SA220 Hybrid Power Amp that has the special clear top for that tube glow or my QuickSilver M135 mono blocks. The trouble with the M135 the shipping weight is going to be 80lb+ each.
> Last Sunday I heard the Copland's Symphony No. 3 with the Colorado Symphony Orchestra. This piece is like the extended version of Copland: Fanfare for the Common Man.
> The dream lives on.


 
  That recording is available on Reference Recordings with the Minnesota Orchestra under Que conducting. It is a real classic performance and an album I use for all my test of gear. It is spectacular album. It starts with Fanfare and goes right into the 3rd and ends with Fanfare. The best classical album I own.


----------



## 2359glenn

These were still hot when I took this picture
  I shut the amps off to pull these to take the picture.
  They light up bright enough to read a book by with there
  Thorated Tungsten filaments.


----------



## Silent One

My fellow members, don't forget to revisit your Janos Starker catalogs...


----------



## rosgr63

Nice pair #10's Glenn


----------



## john57

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My fellow members, don't forget to revisit your Janos Starker catalogs...


 
  It is said that he just pass away, age 88


----------



## john57

Glenn,
   
  Nice to have such bright tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Nice pair #10's Glenn


 
  They sound wonderful too.
  You need a all direct heated triode headphone amp if you don't already have one.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]Glenn, [/size]
  [size=11pt]I think that you are absolutely correct that anyone into tubes should have at least one DHT amp. I went back to my notes from the CAS and the RMAF and realized I was listening to a second DHT amp which is the Eddie Current Balancing Act.  The Balancing Act shares some of the sonic sound flavor of the Woo WA5LE. I prefer the WA5LE slightly over the Balancing Act but the Balancing Act seems to be a bit richer in the lower midrange.[/size]


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, that was the reason behind my encouragement. Will sit down with a few of his recordings just shy of midnight.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]Glenn, [/size]
> [size=11pt]I think that you are absolutely correct that anyone into tubes should have at least one DHT amp. I went back to my notes from the CAS and the RMAF and realized I was listening to a second DHT amp which is the Eddie Current Balancing Act.  The Balancing Act shares some of the sonic sound flavor of the Woo WA5LE. I prefer the WA5LE slightly over the Balancing Act but the Balancing Act seems to be a bit richer in the lower midrange.[/size]


 
  My system is all DHT all amplification is done by direct heated triodes to me these sound better then indirect heated tubes.
  The only tube that I found that sounds close is the C3g as a driver for a 300B. Direct heated triodes are a PITA to work with
  the filament has to be run on DC not to have hum. And each tube has to have a separate DC power supply for the filament.
  But the SQ is worth the hassle of working with them.


----------



## john57

I noticed that with [size=small] Eddie Current Balancing Act[/size] is they took a different path of using high frequency AC for the heaters to avoid the hum and that may account for the SQ differences that I heard between the BA and the WA5. However the BA uses a single 6SN7 to drive both 300B tubes which I read is not the best arrangement.


----------



## GrindingThud

Interesting, 40khz on the heaters. Wonder if that technique could be adapted using a cheap tripath amplifier.


john57 said:


> I noticed that with  Eddie Current Balancing Act is they took a different path of using high frequency AC for the heaters to avoid the hum and that may account for the SQ differences that I heard between the BA and the WA5. However the BA uses a single 6SN7 to drive both 300B tubes which I read is not the best arrangement.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I noticed that with [size=small] Eddie Current Balancing Act[/size] is they took a different path of using high frequency AC for the heaters to avoid the hum and that may account for the SQ differences that I heard between the BA and the WA5. However the BA uses a single 6SN7 to drive both 300B tubes which I read is not the best arrangement.


 
   
   
  The ECBA can also use PX4's which the WA5 can't.
  A lot depends on your tube choice and the ECC35/PX4 combo is one of the best choices for that amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I noticed that with [size=small] Eddie Current Balancing Act[/size] is they took a different path of using high frequency AC for the heaters to avoid the hum and that may account for the SQ differences that I heard between the BA and the WA5. However the BA uses a single 6SN7 to drive both 300B tubes which I read is not the best arrangement.


 
  Every thing is a compromise these company's are in business to make money not have the best sounding amplifier!!!!!!!
  It just has to sound good enough so you will buy it
  The 6SN7 is not a proper driver for a 300B The Woo only uses1/2 of the 6SN7 to do the driving so this is essentially the
  same as the one 6SN7 in the BA. After 10 or more years of dealing with the 300B trying the 6SN7 then going to the
  6DN7 that is really 1/2 a 6SN7 and 1/2 a 6BL7 and also trying the 6BM8/ECL82. I found that #1) the 6SN7 cannot drive
  the 300B properly #2) even though the 6DN7 and 6BM8 can drive the 300B neither of these tubes sound that great in the first place.
      So I went to the #10/210 this sounded fantastic but I had to go through the DC on the filament thing to use this tube.
  Especially as the driver It had to run it on DC. The #10 can drive the 300B with 1.5 watts.  Recently I have experimented
  with the C3g and this tube can also drive the 300B with 1.5 watts of drive and not have to run the filament on DC.
  And these tubes sound almost as good as the #10 and have more gain
  I have sold a couple of amps that use this tube as the driver for a 300B to Clayton you can ask him about the SQ 
        These company's have to give the people what they want and everyone wants a 6SN7 so they can tube roll.
  When I made the OTL I used a Brimmer 13D1 / 25SN7 so I can easily run on DC and filter 150 ma But everyone
  wanted the 6SN7 so I switched to the 6SN7 and ran it on AC. every one happy. But can pick up a slight hum in
  some tubes.  I can't be convinced that there are 6SN7s that sound that much better then a Brimmer 13D1 maybe
  I don't know what I am hearing.
  I didn't understand why some company's used large Input capacitors after a 5U4 causing some of them
  to blow up.  Now I know.  People want to here what they call a black background no hum or noise with the volume
  turned all the way up and no input. What does this matter? This causes the rectifier to produce switching noise that
  you can't here but it makes the amp sound harsh. This is one of the reasons I came up with using the 596 in
  the WA5 that was blowing up rectifiers.
      Running the filament's on high frequency AC is a cheaper way of getting rid of the hum then doing DC. To go DC
  It has to have filtering and on high current it has to use large capacitors and Choke or resistors maybe a voltage regulator
  these things take up realistate under the chassis. And resistors or voltage regulator give off heat that has to be gotten
  rid of. So a high frequency power supply with a small transformer can supply several DHT filaments. Even though this
  can also make the amp sound harsh.


----------



## Silent One

Fascinating...


----------



## rosgr63

Some great drivers are the 310A/B, 311A/B 328A/B families of pentodes.
   
  Look at these new arrivals with mesh plates, 1951 vintage.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]Glenn,[/size]
  [size=medium] Many things you said begins to make sense. I noticed that when I first saw the inwards of the BA my first thing that came in my mind was “where are the caps?”  The caps do look small. When I look inside of a Dark Voice amp I notice the huge amount of caps that take up a lot of the real-estate inside. As far as noise goes I remember the issue that users had with the  Cavalli Audio Liquid Glass amplifier with the noise and some people can hear the hum and some can not hear it. Even the person that was helping with Alex the noise is hard to hear and hard to measure with test equipment. The hum comes and goes at times which was not a issue with some users but everyone wants a pure black background.  Alex had to put on balanced outs even though the amp is not a balanced amp design because of users requests. [/size]


----------



## john57

Are these the round mesh screens? A very interesting tube.
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Some great drivers are the 310A/B, 311A/B 328A/B families of pentodes.
> 
> Look at these new arrivals with mesh plates, 1951 vintage.


----------



## rosgr63

Indeed John.


----------



## 2359glenn

I wonder if they are the same as a C3g I will have to look it up
  They sure do look nice


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Some great drivers are the 310A/B, 311A/B 328A/B families of pentodes.
> 
> Look at these new arrivals with mesh plates, 1951 vintage.


 
  Are these copys of the WE310A&b ans WE311A&B ?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Stavros is a regular tube bloodhound. 
   
  I cannot help but think that, amongst the thousands of tube types made, there has to be something out there nobody has really tried out for audio use that has good curves/specs and is still really cheap.  Tube rolling the 3DG4 was a genuine delight at $1 per tube.  Truly guilt free rolling there, and such a thing could be a really strong selling point for an amp design.  You can experiment if that is your thing and not have to spend a fortune on the same tubes everybody is driving the prices up on all day long.


----------



## 2359glenn

I can't waite to see Stavros tube colection it is not long now.


----------



## Silent One

This means you'll return inspired to try new/different tubes for upcoming builds.


----------



## warchild

Quote:Those define cool. (Or hot when they're running I guess . . .)
   


2359glenn said:


> These were still hot when I took this picture
> I shut the amps off to pull these to take the picture.
> They light up bright enough to read a book by with there
> Thorated Tungsten filaments.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's a shame they didn't have enough gain to work as the only driver gain stage.  I'm sure they're amazing lit up.  Hopefully the C3g is a worth substitute. 
   
  I was pretty worried about availability on the #10 too so I'm sure it all has worked out for the best.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Are these copys of the WE310A&b ans WE311A&B ?


 
   
   
  These are made by Philips, Valvo made 328A's I have a pair with gold pins and the Wermacht insignia made in 1944.
   
  The 310 & 328 have the same specs but the 310's run at 10V and the 328's at 7.5V
  The 311 has a different base from 310 and 328
  A is the standard version and B the low hum one.
   
   

   
   

   
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Stavros is a regular tube bloodhound.
> 
> I cannot help but think that, amongst the thousands of tube types made, there has to be something out there nobody has really tried out for audio use that has good curves/specs and is still really cheap.  Tube rolling the 3DG4 was a genuine delight at $1 per tube.  Truly guilt free rolling there, and such a thing could be a really strong selling point for an amp design.  You can experiment if that is your thing and not have to spend a fortune on the same tubes everybody is driving the prices up on all day long.


 
   
   
  Thanks for the kind words.
  But I can't take any credit for any of the tubes I mention.
  They are tubes I own which my amps use, the full credit goes to the designers/ makers like Glenn and all the tube addicts.
   
  I just mention some from time to time to inspire people.
  The tube addiction is too strong.
   
  The ultimate goal for me is to have amps which sound good and run on cheap tubes.
  Glenn's OTL is that and more as it's made with love, he loves this hobby not the money.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Look what my crazy good friend Clayton sent me as a gift:
   

   

  Acturus 5Y3
   

  Rca 5U4GB
   

  GE 5R4GYA
   

  Brimar 5Z4G CV1863 with the bullet hole plates
   

  United Electronics USAF 596
   

   
  Rocket dust blower
   
  I'm speachless. I'm so happy and Glenn's amp is in for a treat! Best gift ever. Why can't my local friends buy me gifts like these I get all excited about?
  Clayton, big thanks. Can't say it enough, you're the best and you can expect a thank you gift for sure.
   
  Can't wait now for Glenn to finish my amp


----------



## rosgr63

That's a great collection!
   
  Enjoy them.


----------



## longbowbbs

What a wonderful surprise!! I love the rocket...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thumbs up Clayton!
   
  Do you need an adapter for your 596? I have two of them from Glenn and they are perfect. I know you have been waiting for that tube.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I will be needing one indeed. I asked Glenn if he could make me one.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I will be needing one indeed. I asked Glenn if he could make me one.


 
  Glenn turned them around quickly for me. I think you have enough to keep you occupied until it arrives...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm speechless. ...  Clayton, big thanks. ...
> Can't wait now for Glenn to finish my amp


 
   
  You're welcome.
  I'm glad that they arrived safely and that you like them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> What a wonderful surprise!! I love the rocket...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 What an outstanding head-fier, that Clayton!


----------



## john57

Clayton that is a very nice gesture you did!


----------



## CEE TEE

Congrats, Ultrainferno...those are so cool. 
   
*Santa* Clayton SF.   Fixed.


----------



## 2359glenn

Pictures of Ultrainferno's amp


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice Glenn!
   
  Does it use one rectifier?


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes one GZ37 to power the two 300Bs
  at 70 to 80 ma each the GZ37 has plenty of reserve current.
  The GZ37 is one of the rectifier tubes you can use in your OTL amp.


----------



## rosgr63

I am neither a tube roller or an addict!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Who are you telling that story to?
  Not me I know better.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Pictures of Ultrainferno's amp


 
   
  I do like it Glenn, I like the blue, my fav color


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Now I know which version to order for my bedroom!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Yes one GZ37 to power the two 300Bs
> at 70 to 80 ma each the GZ37 has plenty of reserve current.
> The GZ37 is one of the rectifier tubes you can use in your OTL amp.


 
   
  Well presented!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Who are you telling that story to?
> Not me I know better.


 
   
  I can't fool you Glenn, you know me too well!
   
  Well at least I tried............
   
  Currently testing this B36


----------



## 2359glenn

You saved money by getting the 12 volt version.
  Should sound as good ?


----------



## rosgr63

This particular version is average sounding but this metal base B36 is great.
   
  How can a tube addict save money?
  The money saved from one tube goes towards the next one...........
  There is no cure.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am neither a tube roller or an addict!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  Nope...You are a Cookie Monster


----------



## warchild

That's an easy to like amp.
  I can see it on my desk!
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Pictures of Ultrainferno's amp


----------



## Neogeo333

I hope mine is as good looking at this one. Great job as always Glenn.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quick question for the wizkids: what would happen if you connect 8 ohm speakers to the 4 ohm output or worse, 4 ohm speakers to the 8 ohm output?
  From what I understand connecting 8ohm speakers to the 4ohm output doesn't hurt but the other way around could cause damage to both the amp and the speakers?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quick question for the wizkids: what would happen if you connect 8 ohm speakers to the 4 ohm output or worse, 4 ohm speakers to the 8 ohm output?
> From what I understand connecting 8ohm speakers to the 4ohm output doesn't hurt but the other way around could cause damage to both the amp and the speakers?


 
  You open an interdimensional wormhole to a land without tubes!


----------



## GrindingThud

Wow, good looking amp....and I bet even better sounding.


----------



## Silent One

The one thing I wish I could really order from Glenn is that black background his property presents.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ultra- I'm looking forward to listening to your GlennAmp and seeing your incredible soundroom. You have 3 months until I arrive. Start chilling the bubbly!


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ultra- I'm looking forward to listening to your GlennAmp and seeing your incredible soundroom. You have 3 months until I arrive. Start chilling the bubbly!


 
  Maybe you could lend me your Glenn amp during that time
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Just got HD650's Friday for my birthday, am wanting to see how they are with an upper tier amp


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Maybe you could lend me your Glenn amp during that time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That sound's like a novel idea but can you wait 3 months? Which amp are you currently using to listen to your new HD650s?


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  O2/ODAC. And yes, I can


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quick question for the wizkids: what would happen if you connect 8 ohm speakers to the 4 ohm output or worse, 4 ohm speakers to the 8 ohm output?
> From what I understand connecting 8ohm speakers to the 4ohm output doesn't hurt but the other way around could cause damage to both the amp and the speakers?


 
   
  Anyone?
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ultra- I'm looking forward to listening to your GlennAmp and seeing your incredible soundroom. You have 3 months until I arrive. Start chilling the bubbly!


 
   
  I'm looking forward to having you over. The good news is your guest room is right next to the listening room. Maybe you could bring over your speakers?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quick question for the wizkids: what would happen if you connect 8 ohm speakers to the 4 ohm output or worse, 4 ohm speakers to the 8 ohm output?
> From what I understand connecting 8ohm speakers to the 4ohm output doesn't hurt but the other way around could cause damage to both the amp and the speakers?


 
  If you hook 8 ohm speakers to the 4 ohm output the output transformer would double the impedance to the 300B.
  this would cause a loss in power and lower the distortion.  The output transformer is a ratio device so what gets
  hooked up gets multiplied by the ratio.
  If you went 4 ohm to 8 ohm that would increase the power and increase the distortion.
  It will not cause damage to the amp of speakers


----------



## rosgr63

Ultra to be on the safe side wait for this test until Clayton comes over.
   
  Let him do the test while you are out getting the booze in............


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Ultra to be on the safe side wait for this test until Clayton comes over.
> 
> Let him do the test while you are out getting the booze in............


 
   
  There's an idea! My speakers should be 4ohm but I don't feel like opening them up and measuring them (long story). worst case scenario is I hook up 8 ohm to the 4 ohm plug.
  As long as I don't damage speakers or amp, it's cool 
   
  thanks!


----------



## rosgr63

On second thoughts don't let him touch anything...............
   
  Just keep him happy.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> There's an idea! My speakers should be 4ohm but I don't feel like opening them up and measuring them (long story). worst case scenario is I hook up 8 ohm to the 4 ohm plug.
> As long as I don't damage speakers or amp, it's cool
> 
> thanks!


----------



## 2359glenn

You cannot damage the amp or speakers no mater how you hook them up at least not my amp.
The only thing is it might not sound as good if you hook a 4 ohm speaker to 8 or 16 ohm tap.
The worst thing you can do with a tube amp is run it turned up into no load that can arc over the output transformer.
You would be better off shorting the output that will heart nothing.


----------



## john57

Glenn,
   
  Have you ever tried the 812A tubes? It seems that this tube not only glows but light up the entire room?


----------



## 2359glenn

No but I have made a amp with a 810 that was quite bright but I think the output transformer I used wasn't
  that good so I didn't like the sound.
  I have a stereo amp that uses a pair of SV572-3s These light up just as Britte and sound pretty good puts out
  21 watts a channel. And the graphite plates glow cherry red.


----------



## Ultrainferno

it's. oh. so quiet. it's. a. oh. so still...
   
  I've been getting several PM's to find new batches of 596 tubes but I'm all out, can't find any.
  So I guess it's up to Glenn to discover a new great tube and to SO to make it famous


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> it's. oh. so quiet. it's. a. oh. so still...
> 
> I've been getting several PM's to find new batches of 596 tubes but I'm all out, can't find any.
> So I guess it's up to Glenn to discover a new great tube and to SO to make it famous


 
  Maybe I will send you a RK-60 tube and adapter with the amp
  If I have the time to make the adapter. Clayton may have tried
  this tube in the 300B amp.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Very nice! I better start looking for a batch of RK60 in case they get as famous as the 596


----------



## 2359glenn

They ars similar to the 596 but not as robust and have diferent plate caps they have caps
  insted of pins.


----------



## Ultrainferno

best brands?


----------



## 2359glenn

I think all of them were made by Raytheon
  Only had GE & Raytheon and the looked identica
  I think the GE # is GL1641 same tube


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Be careful of the caps. One of mine came off rendering the tube useless. The distributor replaced that tube free and said that I didn't have to return the defective one. So if I have the time and obtain the skills to fix it, I shall. I have an adapter for my WA22 but will want a couple for my mono blocks. I've own a few of them.


----------



## Ultrainferno

That looks good C! I've sent out some emails, we'll see


----------



## Clayton SF

Ultra- don't buy one, I'll bring one over with the adapter for you to try out (over a few beers.)


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's very kind of you C, but I couldn't take a 3 month wait


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> That's very kind of you C, but I couldn't take a 3 month wait


 
   
  Well then you will just have to come over here before I go over there before we go over to rosgr63 to see what 2359glenn and those cookies are all about.


----------



## longbowbbs

We need a Head-Fi Star Trek transporter so we can get the band together...


----------



## rosgr63

Can you keep me a place please?
   
  I'll be good and won't sneak any cookies............


----------



## 2359glenn

I Told Clayton about the cookie strategy yesterday that L cannot make
  Cookies yet or there will be none left buy the end of June.
  If they are made now and stay here I will eat them all.
  If we ship them to Athens no better Stavros will eat them all.
  So L is holding off for awhile making cookies but has more cooking up her sleeve
  in the mean time.  This is why I have gotten so dam fat.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I Told Clayton about the cookie strategy yesterday that L cannot make
> Cookies yet or there will be none left buy the end of June.
> If they are made now and stay here I will eat them all.
> If we ship them to Athens no better Stavros will eat them all.
> ...


 
   
  I'd say send them all to me and I'll keep them from you. That way you can't blame Stavros. Stavros can't blame you. L is off the hook. And I take them with me to Ultra- and the both of us get fat.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Be careful of the caps. One of mine came off rendering the tube useless. The distributor replaced that tube free and said that I didn't have to return the defective one. So if I have the time and obtain the skills to fix it, I shall. I have an adapter for my WA22 but will want a couple for my mono blocks. I've own a few of them.


 
   
  I'm very interested to hear your dueling thoughts on the RK60 & USAF-596...


----------



## Xcalibur255

We should have named this thread Sesame Street.
   
  It's full of cookie monsters.


----------



## Silent One

_Hardly._.. _I can do it right now! _




   
  Except, the 12-13 year old set would bury us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We'd end up having to post via PM.


----------



## Clayton SF

Well if they can name an amp Crack, then I don't see why you couldn't name one of Glenn's amps Cookie. The Cookie Club.


----------



## Silent One

Since I'm going to have Glenn cobble together me a DHT rig complete with a separate battery supply, I'll have my very own peach cobbler from the studio.


----------



## Clayton SF

Are your vacuum tubes dead?
  Well turn them into tubes to die for.
  Wouldn't you just kill for these tubes.
  (Okay, sorry...)
SKELETUBES!
  You could place them on a Halloween cake.


----------



## Silent One

What a run! Since lunch, I watched the thread go 1-2-3 Cookies, Cobbler & Cake.


----------



## rosgr63

Would you fellow readers open a nice pair of New In Sealed Box 6SN7's or keep the boxes intact?
   
  Clayton, I like the idea but much prefer a happier theme!


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> Would you fellow readers open a nice pair of New In Sealed Box 6SN7's or keep the boxes intact?




If you plan on selling them yes, if not open up and listen


----------



## rosgr63

I have similar NIBs so I know of their sound.
  It's just curiosity more than all else.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Would you fellow readers open a nice pair of New In Sealed Box 6SN7's or keep the boxes intact?
> Clayton, I like the idea but much prefer a happier theme!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Christmas%20Tubes


 
   
  You are correct, rosgr63. Your tubes are on a much happier note. So I now suggest this exhibit:


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just had this for my 4PM snack. I needed a change from the cookies


----------



## john57

Good Grief!


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I just had this for my 4PM snack. I needed a change from the cookies


 
  Where do you live again, Ultra?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Where do you live again, Ultra?


 
   
  A country far far away where chocolate and beer are on the daily menu


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thats why you have such good food


----------



## rosgr63

And I thought I was the only bad one................
   
  That's nice Ultra, used to have some between meals from the street stalls in Antwerpen, I could never resist.


----------



## Clayton SF

I took this photo in Amsterdam. Notice the Grand Marnier bottle and some other bottle of liquor. I guess you drink that after taking a bite of that sweet concoction, yes?


----------



## Ultrainferno

or you poor it over it and set it on fire 
  Those or Liège waffles by the way, the one I had is a Brussels one.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I just had this for my 4PM snack. I needed a change from the cookies


 
  L wants to know were is hers if she is making you cookies she want's one of those.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> L wants to know were is hers if she is making you cookies she want's one of those.


 
   
  It's going to be hard to get to you without it having melted, squashed and having fungus all over


----------



## 2359glenn

We ought to start a food thread ?
  Maybe this is it!
   
  I gota get to building a amp !


----------



## rosgr63

Here are the tubes I was talking about:
  Sorry Glenn, I have to get serious or else.........not long to go before we hit the waffles.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Here are the tubes I was talking about:
> Sorry Glenn, I have to get serious or else.........not long to go before we hit the waffles.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: beautiful%20boxes.


 
   
  Boy, it looks like you live in a tube/valve hotspot. All those pictures that you have been posting of your tubes are incredible and most of them I am quite unfamiliar with. Has Glenn secretly built you another amplifier that uses many off-the-wall, esoteric tubes?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> We ought to start a food thread ?
> Maybe this is it!
> 
> *I gota get to building a amp !*


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Here are the tubes I was talking about:
> Sorry Glenn, I have to get serious or else.........not long to go before we hit the waffles.


 
   
  Hmmm... a pair of SICTE's or a pair of Waffles? This is troubling.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I just had this for my 4PM snack. I needed a change from the cookies


 
   
  If you're delighting in this, cookies are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 overrated!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 
   
  Could be the finishing touch of my amp or maybe the Amplifier Switch Box I requested or maybe something new that will amaze us all!


----------



## Silent One

I am very excited for you. All of these goodies you got coming from the studio may lend me some ideas.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Boy, it looks like you live in a tube/valve hotspot. All those pictures that you have been posting of your tubes are incredible and most of them I am quite unfamiliar with. Has Glenn secretly built you another amplifier that uses many off-the-wall, esoteric tubes?


 
   
   
  Not Yet..............
   
  It's the tube addiction Clayton.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Boy, it looks like you live in a tube/valve hotspot. All those pictures that you have been posting of your tubes are incredible and most of them I am quite unfamiliar with. Has Glenn secretly built you another amplifier that uses many off-the-wall, esoteric tubes?


 
  Your amps have the esoteric tubes the C3g was a great find!!!!    sounds good and low cost!!
   
  My goal is to make a amp that sounds great with the cheapest tubes.
   
  Tubes that cost $1.00 and $4.00 that is good design.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Your amps have the esoteric tubes the C3g was a great find!!!!    sounds good and low cost!!
> My goal is to make a amp that sounds great with the cheapest tubes.
> Tubes that cost $1.00 and $4.00 that is good design.


 
   
  You've achieved your goal with those amps. Thank you!
   
  I am listening to them right now. Beautiful. *Rich sound on a poor man's budget*. In fact, the Leben CS600 is no longer in use--it is in storage.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is what it's about, some good livin'!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You've achieved your goal with those amps. Thank you!
> 
> I am listening to them right now. Beautiful. *Rich sound on a poor man's budget*. In fact, the Leben CS600 is no longer in use--it is in storage.


 
  It is hard to beat the sound of a direct heated triode 300B especially with the proper driver


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *2359glenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My goal is to make a amp that sounds great with the cheapest tubes.
> 
> Tubes that cost $1.00 and $4.00 that is good design.


 
   
   
  That's why you are so unique Glenn.
   
  I would like to add "And not charging a fortune for making it, it's all for the love of tubes and building amps"


----------



## 2359glenn

I am not sure unique is the word for me .  That is not the word L uses for me thats for sure.
  The word she uses starts with A.


----------



## rosgr63

I am sure L means *Adorable........*


----------



## 2359glenn

I don't think so it is As****e most of the time  I take it as a compliment.


----------



## Silent One

As long as you remain creative, I got ur 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 back!


----------



## Ultrainferno

What actually happened to that Glenn Studio badge?


----------



## Silent One

Ultimately, "Life" may have gotten in the way and Seamaster had to handle his biz...


----------



## Ultrainferno

As said before I sent out some mails for the RK60/1641 tubes (I was bored) and the results were very surprising.
  You can find them but not easily, stock is limited and the prices are all over the place. I've gotten quotes starting from $10 to $40(!!) per tube in the US and only one EU dealer had them for 18€/piece
   
  Just shout if you want to know where to get them. I'll order a pair from the EU dealer if Glenn has time to make me the adapter


----------



## EraserXIV

Has anyone had a chance to compare the OTL to the Crack, running into HD650 and HD800? Interested to see if it would a good addition to the stable


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have a Crack and the HD650 but I won't get the OTL amp, I can't help you.
  Is everyone hibernating or is everyone on holiday? It's been long since it was this quiet in here


----------



## Silent One

Over this way, we're planning our day, including the Brunch taking place in one hour.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Over this way, we're planning our day, including the Brunch taking place in one hour.


 
   
  I just finished dinner and am ready for desert. Fruit! Can you image!!! Gf is on a diet so I'm screw**. No more cookies! (when I'm home  )


----------



## rosgr63

Fresh Strawberries, Banana, Tropical Fruit, icing sugar and lots of Grand Marnier for desert tonight.
   
  The Brand New Heavies somehow sound better even though I am on a SS.


----------



## Silent One

It's been awhile since I enjoyed The Brand New Heavies. Gonna have to bring them up sometime soon!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I just finished dinner and am ready for desert. Fruit! Can you image!!! Gf is on a diet so I'm screw**. No more cookies! (when I'm home  )


 
   





 You're in trouble.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I have a Crack and the HD650 but I won't get the OTL amp, I can't help you.
> Is everyone hibernating or is everyone on holiday? It's been long since it was this quiet in here


 

 Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## Ultrainferno

So does anyone have any exciting news?


----------



## 2359glenn

just got home from work and about to wire the selector switch in your amp!
  Is that exciting ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> just got home from work and about to wire the selector switch in your amp!
> Is that exciting ?


 
   
  Oh it is for sure! That leaves the volume pot, right?
  It's getting so close to being finished now, very excited!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> just got home from work and about to wire the selector switch in your amp!
> Is that exciting ?


 

 Maybe you can wire one to my head:
   
  selection 1. beer
  selection 2. wine
  selection 3. whiskey
  selection 4. cookies
  selection 5. chocolates
  selection 6. pizza


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> just got home from work and about to wire the selector switch in your amp!
> Is that exciting ?


 
  What does the selector switch do?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> What does the selector switch do?


 

 It is an input selector.
  You connect different sources to the different inputs then you use the switch to select which source you want to listen to: CD, Phono Stage, DAC, etc...


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## longbowbbs

Work is interfering with my free time


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Work is interfering with my free time


 
  You and me both, brother!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I got free time, BUT got no work, no system.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That is no good either!


----------



## Silent One

I liken this to navigating a new an unfamiliar path that calls for one to adapt if they are to travel far.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I liken this to navigating a new an unfamiliar path that calls for one to adapt if they are to travel far.


 
  As Kevin Cronin would say you have to Roll with the Changes....


----------



## longbowbbs

I am sure you will all find this thread from the Decware forum of interest. One of the thing I appreciate so much about Glenn is his willingness to share the experience of building amps and the trial and error that goes into creating a holistic piece of audio art. Steve Deckert at Decware is working on a new design and has posted a forum diary of this new design. I hope I am not out of line posting the forum link, but Steve and Glenn are so alike in many ways and I really admire them both.
   
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1365130519/0


----------



## rosgr63

Great teachers were/are never afraid to reveal their work and teach the world.


----------



## 2359glenn

There will be a new reveal in a couple of weeks.
  I have had it with USA 6AS7 type tubes and the 5998 Pops
  nearly blew my ear out.
  The Russian 6H13C is good and maybe the GEC6AS7 but that price tag is over my head
  The rest are pure Junk. I do have a pair of RCA6AS7s that are quiet 
  Going to use different output tubes in the New amp.


----------



## Silent One

Colour me interested!


----------



## rosgr63

Can't wait for the revelation!!!!!!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Colour me interested!


 
  +1!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> There will be a new reveal in a couple of weeks.
> I have had it with USA 6AS7 type tubes and the 5998 Pops
> nearly blew my ear out.
> The Russian 6H13C is good and maybe the GEC6AS7 but that price tag is over my head
> ...


 
  Glenn,
   
  I am more in agreement with you. I can also confirmed that the Russian 6H13C are the best tubes from a electrical stand point and specs do not tell the whole story. I have a quad set of RCA 6AS7 that are quiet and tested and burn in with my current amp but other RCA's I tried are crap and ping like crazy in the middle of a song. I am curious on what output tubes you are going to use!


----------



## EraserXIV

I just recently gotten into tubes so I don't have much experience, but my 5998s are dead silent. My RCA 6AS7 is a bit noisy though.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Can't wait for the revelation!!!!!!!!


 
  You haven't listened to all the output tubes *yet !!!!*


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> There will be a new reveal in a couple of weeks.
> I have had it with USA 6AS7 type tubes and the 5998 Pops
> nearly blew my ear out.
> The Russian 6H13C is good and maybe the GEC6AS7 but that price tag is over my head
> ...


 
   
  Looking for real-world feedback? 21 to 30 day minimum evaluation guaranteed... will buy it outright if I like it! Remember our last 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




transaction? I think you were still holding the soldering iron 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




when you opened my email.
   
  Give us a hint on the new amp: how many kilos is this bad boy gonna weigh?


----------



## GrindingThud

211?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Glenn,
> 
> I am more in agreement with you. I can also confirmed that the Russian 6H13C are the best tubes from a electrical stand point and specs do not tell the whole story. I have a quad set of RCA 6AS7 that are quiet and tested and burn in with my current amp but other RCA's I tried are crap and ping like crazy in the middle of a song. I am curious on what output tubes you are going to use!


 
  None of these 6AS7 types sound that much better then the 6H13C it is not worth using them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  Maybe I am just tone deaf and don't here what every one else here's with the 5998 and US 6AS7s
  I will no longer will build amps that have the 5998 switch I do have amps on order with this option
  That I am going to build when I get back from Greece. But will not build them with this switch.
   And will no longer make a amp that promotes the use of 5998 tubes!!!!
  I had one pop while listening it blew the headphones out and My ear was ringing for hours.
  The new amp Will be able to use 6H13Cs and people can use 6AS7s at there own risk.
  It is time for a new amp that can use low cost tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> 211?


 
   
  465 pound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 mono blocks?!


----------



## Clayton SF

Hello Glenn. What do you think of this Russian 6C19 single triode as a power tube?


----------



## EraserXIV

Hey if it sounds good, I don't care what tubes it uses


----------



## GrindingThud

I'm not sure I'd fully trust the 6H13C either then.....I've arced one of those too. The 6N6P is another possibility....


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I'm not sure I'd fully trust the 6H13C either then.....I've arced one of those too. The 6N6P is another possibility....


 
  6N1P-EV is another great sounding low cost power tube...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





eraserxiv said:


> I just recently gotten into tubes so I don't have much experience, but my 5998s are dead silent. My RCA 6AS7 is a bit noisy though.


 
  The problem isn't traditional noise or microphonics, it is shorts and bizarre power pulses that produce a very powerful POP in the headphones.  I lost two pairs of headphones to bad 5998 tubes, and Glenn has now lost a pair too. 
   
  I think the 5998 is a great tube sonically, but there is just cause to move onto something else given the rate of occurrence. 
   
  Personally, I will be boarding the train to DHT Town pretty soon.  For people looking for something a bit more reasonably priced Glenn is whipping up something new to offer that everybody should find interesting.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> 211?


 

 As interesting as an 845/211 amp would be, 1200V on the plates scares the crap out of me personally.  High output power and still being direct heated is alluring though.  It seems like 3 stages is mandantory to drive them properly too, they'd be big and expensive no matter what.


----------



## Silent One

Today's mention of a replacement tube has me reminiscing a bit. A couple of years ago, I had _The Mighty 596_ (United Electronics USAF-596 Full-Wave Vacuum Rectifier for those unregistered guests perusing Head-Fi) proudly sitting atop my _WooAudio_ _WA 6 Special Edition_ amp.
   
  A lady friend entered the listening room and observed _"Why don't they make it with the glass thingys inside the case?" _




   
  It's ok 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I like it and that's all that matters.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> 6N1P-EV is another great sounding low cost power tube...


 
  Is that a 6DJ8 family of tubes? I have a few pre-amps that uses the 6DJ8/6922 tubes. Great as a driver tube not power.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hello Glenn. What do you think of this Russian 6C19 single triode as a power tube?


 
  I was looking into these but there is no tube rolling the are all made by the same company
  maybe two.
  So I have something else up my sleeve.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  6DJ8 family, yes...My bad...Input or Output, not power.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The 6C19P is a nice tube made by Svetlana and Ulyanov (probably the better one), avoid the chinese variant. 6N6P and 6N30Pi are also nice output tubes but the latter aren't cheap especially the DR variant. There are quite a few variant to try also. I have always thought that there is lot's of potential in the 2C51 family and the 6BL7GT / 6BX7GT (and their A variants). Both are cheap still, reliable and have lot's of rolling potential for headphone users. If you rewired the 6N6Ps then you are into the E182CC / 7119 / 7044...5687 / 6900 (ouch price) again decent power, great quality and lots of good rolling options and quality. Power on the 6BL7GT / 6BX7GT is 10 w side or 12w bottle, so you could use just L triode on L channel and R triode on R channel, and then swap L and R tubes over at end of life to double life of valve!


----------



## rosgr63

I understand that the 5998 pop on start up.
  If the headphones are removed for a few minutes then all should be fine.
  That's what I do with my 5998's.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I've had only one 5998 pop on me at startup. No headphones were harmed, I never used the tube since. Actually, I don't use any of my 5998 tubes as I don't really like the sound.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Been thinking about other tubes  that could be used and looked at my stash, I have lots of double digit triodes which I think hold great promise which I have yet to do anything with. 19, 26, 26, 30, 37, 45,50, 56 and 76s. Must be some good potential with these.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Half of your list are very well known quantities and some of the finest sounding tubes to ever exist.


----------



## 2359glenn

Ultrainferno
   
  your amp is almost finished it will be finished in the morning.
  I used Sprague Vitamin Q coupling capacitors I feel these are the best sounding
  coupling capacitors.  I bought them for someone else but they bought there own
  Duelund capacitors. So I used them in your amp I only use paper in oil capacitors
  and these are the best.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Ultrainferno
> 
> your amp is almost finished it will be finished in the morning.
> I used Sprague Vitamin Q coupling capacitors I feel these are the best sounding
> ...


 
  Lucky, Inferno!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Lucky, Inferno!!


 

 And I'll get to listen to it in August. Yay!


----------



## warchild

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> It is time for a new amp that can use low cost tubes.


 
   
  As a guy who has blown a lot of money on "gourmet" tubes, I find this really exciting. 
  The new line of self biasing circuits seem to be looking only for a quick fix readily available tube that fits the bill and eventually ends up being frustrating.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  We are going to need a Skype Mini meet for this....


----------



## john57

with video!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





john57 said:


> with video!!


 
  Oh Yes.....1080P....


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I want to do this!


----------



## rosgr63

Eric behave, all this Skype talk sounds so inviting.................
  Take it from one of the very early Skype users when it was still under testing.
   
  Meantime listening to Marcus Miller with the L'Orchestre Philharmonique De Monte-Carlo.


----------



## longbowbbs

Stavros, we could watch you guys eat cookies from 4 continents!


----------



## rosgr63

Eat cookies or admiring tubes?
   
  Don't know which is worst............
   
  Currently I am in touch with friends from three contents so there's still room to improve.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And I'll get to listen to it in August. Yay!


 
   
  We're counting on you to do field reporting.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> We're counting on you to do field reporting.


 
   
  We only have 3 days and 80% of our time will be taken up by food & beverages, but I'll make sure he gets to listen to it for 5 minutes or so.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> We're counting on you to do field reporting.


 
  I'll be on vacation like Glenn, L., and Stavros.
   
  Ultra- and I will be doing serious eating, drinking, and general activities. No homework this time.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'll be on vacation like Glenn, L., and Stavros.
> 
> Ultra- and I will be doing serious eating, drinking, and general activities. No homework this time.


 
   
  The thread will give the four of you each a couple of extra days to screen your pix before posting. This way, the only pix we'll see are the ones meant to be posted.


----------



## 2359glenn

Ultra's amp is finished and I am listening to it now.
  The amp came out very well and sounds great.
  Hard to beat the sound of a 300B
   
  Time for cookies and go to bed!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Ultra's amp is finished and I am listening to it now.
> The amp came out very well and sounds great.
> Hard to beat the sound of a 300B
> 
> Time for cookies and go to bed!


 
  Any last pictures? I'll bet it is stunning!


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> We only have 3 days and 80% of our time will be taken up by food & beverages, but I'll make sure he gets to listen to it for 5 minutes or so.


 
   
   
  That's hilarious!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Ultra's amp is finished and I am listening to it now.
> The amp came out very well and sounds great.
> Hard to beat the sound of a 300B
> 
> Time for cookies and go to bed!


 
   
  With news like this, if you lived in _The City,_ strangers would start filing outside your window to scream and jump for joy.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Ultra's amp is finished and I am listening to it now.
> The amp came out very well and sounds great.
> Hard to beat the sound of a 300B
> 
> Time for cookies and go to bed!


 

 And when Ultra- is fast asleep, I shall "borrow" his new GlennAmp. 'cause there's a train that I've got to catch early that mornin' to be able to make it to Schiphol Airport Amsterdam in time for my trip to Paris just before he awakens; just before he misses it.
   
  j/k


----------



## rosgr63

Now you are talking Clayton, can I be of any help or more like it any distraction?
   
  Glenn we are waiting for the photos!


----------



## Silent One

I'm sure we'll see 'em Monday morning, his time... can't wait!


----------



## 2359glenn

Photos tonight or tomorrow didn't get time to take one
  Maybe I can take one before I leave for work.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, sir. Though, I'm not sure which one I'm going to see first, sunrise on the West coast or pix on the East coast.


----------



## 2359glenn

I took a few quick pictures of Ultrainferno's amp before I left for work some are blurry.
  Now uploading them at work.



   

  The amp was driving my speakers when I took these pictures when headphones are plugged in the
  speakers are disconnected automatically.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Ultra's amp is finished and I am listening to it now.
> The amp came out very well and sounds great.
> Hard to beat the sound of a 300B
> 
> Time for cookies and go to bed!


 
   
  I just woke up (yes its noon, I know) and read Clayton's email about my amp being finished. Nice news waking up to 
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Any last pictures? I'll bet it is stunning!


 
   
  I want to see it too! 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And when Ultra- is fast asleep, I shall "borrow" his new GlennAmp. 'cause there's a train that I've got to catch early that mornin' to be able to make it to Schiphol Airport Amsterdam in time for my trip to Paris just before he awakens; just before he misses it.
> 
> j/k


 
   
  Ok, that's it, I'm locking your door at night.
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Photos tonight or tomorrow didn't get time to take one
> Maybe I can take one before I leave for work.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I took a few quick pictures of Ultrainferno's amp before I left for work some are blurry.
> Now uploading them at work.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Glenn just beat me too it. Looking very good Glenn! Is that the dimmed LED?
  If it sounds as good as it looks I'll be a very happy man! But I have a feeling it sounds even better


----------



## 2359glenn

It sounds good this amp came out real good
  What is the Impedance of your headphones ?
  I might have to change the padding resistors ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> It sounds good this amp came out real good
> What is the Impedance of your headphones ?
> I might have to change the padding resistors ?


 
   
  sending you a PM right now!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


>


 
   
  What tube combination is that btw?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> What tube combination is that btw?


 
  From what I can tell, that combo looks like:
   
  Left - JJ 300B
  Right - 300B (don't know)
  2 - Siemens C3g
  1 - RCA 5U4G
   
  If I'm not found by the authorities with your amp in Paris, then I may be in Greece! (wink-wink).


----------



## Ultrainferno

Hah 
The right 300B didnt look like a JJ. I figured it was the RCA.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Hah
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ^ correction. See my EDITS ^
   
  I don't know what the right 300B one is.


----------



## 2359glenn

1) 5U4 rectifier
  2) C3g driver
  2) 300B outputs but they are two different brands just using for testing
   
  Do you have all the tubes?
   
  I will take picture with the 596 and RK-60 later when I have the adapters made.


----------



## 2359glenn

Oh do you want me to send a RK-60 ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

The 300Bs will be here 3 days after I order, so I'm waiting for Glenn to ship the amp. All the other tubes I have, thanks to you as well 
  Normally my amp will come with both those adapters as well, if I manage to convince Glenn to make them before he ships it


----------



## 2359glenn

Clayton you don't have to steel it it should sound almost the same
  as your mono blocks.


----------



## 2359glenn

Ultra
  how loud do you listen to your headphones ?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Clayton you don't have to steel it it should sound almost the same
> as your mono blocks.


 

 Then Ultrainferno will be very very very happy because I am very very very happy with your mono blocks.
   
  It is really great that you've included the mA meters to adjust the bias when using different rectifiers.
   
  The mA was set at 70 when I was using a 5R4. When I replaced it with a GZ37 it jumped to almost 110. I had to recalibrate it. Plus, it is really cool to look at. You kind of wonder what would happen to the amp had you not built it with the meters.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Ultra
> how loud do you listen to your headphones ?


 
   
  That's hard to tell, I guess. I try not to listen to loud, but it happens most of the time. But "loud" is different for everyone.
  Also, I will be using it most for the orthodynamics, they can use a lot of power
   
  And my speakers are 89db, not that efficient. Hope it helps!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I took a few quick pictures of Ultrainferno's amp before I left for work some are blurry.
> Now uploading them at work.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Great effort, sir! Looking at these photographs more closely and two things are apparent:
   
  1. The days numbering your departure for Greece just got shorter
  2. The line I'm standing in for your custom builds just got 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




shorter


----------



## dminches

Lieven, I found tubes for your amp. http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-western-electric-300b-matching-pair-2013-05-19-accessories-11229-brooklyn-ny


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Lieven, I found tubes for your amp. http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-western-electric-300b-matching-pair-2013-05-19-accessories-11229-brooklyn-ny


 






  I saw those this morning.....Yep...WE300B!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Hahaha, I actually found some new NOS ones for 750€/each.
  I think I'll start with the JJ's Glenn and Clayton recommended


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Hahaha, I actually found some new NOS ones for 750€/each.
> I think I'll start with the JJ's Glenn and Clayton recommended


 

 Hey, Ultra- I got an idea.
   
  Why don't you have Glenn mail me your amp (it won't cost too much from NC to SF). Then I'll put it in my backpack like the WA2 and bring it over to you in August. Yes? Is that okay?


----------



## Ultrainferno

That could have been a great idea, but that's another 4 months C. That's a bit too much


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> That could have been a great idea, but that's another 4 months C. That's a bit too much


 
  No worries! I can wait that long.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What are friends for??!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  He could save you the VAT!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> What are friends for??!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Actually, with 2359glenn being a "MOT" and this amp is a first gen effort of his R&D effort, Belgium should recognize Ultra's evaluation with the instrument vacuum tube amplifier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Without additional fees.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I was hoping not to pay any customs charges as Glenn doesn't have an official company. The amp is coming from a private person, so it should be fine. (I hope)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I was hoping not to pay any customs charges as Glenn doesn't have an official company. The amp is coming from a private person, so it should be fine. (I hope)


 

 x2.
   
  Ship it via _ClaytonSF Courier Service_. Delivered with a smile and a few more rectifier tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

What would you like me tp value it as?
  I will put it as used?


----------



## Silent One

He's a Researcher. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You, an evaluator.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> What would you like me tp value it as?
> I will put it as used?


 
   
  Used sounds good. Or gift, but anything above 150€ I probably will have to pay VAT on. Will you use TNT, DHL or USPS? (I hope not USPS, most expensive)


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Used sounds good. Or gift, but anything above 150€ I probably will have to pay VAT on. Will you use TNT, DHL or USPS? (I hope not USPS, most expensive)


 
  I will be using USPS I live in the boonies and would have to drive 40 miles one way to get to DHL not a option. I don't even know
  of a TNT office.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Doh! Better put money aside then for the VAT, Import, registration and administrative costs. That's about 30% of the value you will tell USPS, so maybe we should keep it low indeed ($200?) and hope they miss the amp during check-in. And pray they don't lose the amp or damage it a lot. With tracking I presume?


----------



## 2359glenn

I have sent plenty of stuff  to Greece with USPS no problen not even once.


----------



## 2359glenn

I have sent plenty of stuff  to Greece with USPS no problen not even once.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I see all the 300B amps so far are manual bias.  I'd love to hear a little bit about why you went this way vs. a self-biasing design.  Does cathode or self-biasing come with a sound quality penalty perhaps?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I see all the 300B amps so far are manual bias.  I'd love to hear a little bit about why you went this way vs. a self-biasing design.  Does cathode or self-biasing come with a sound quality penalty perhaps?


 
  In a self biasing amp will have a cathode resistor and bypass capacitor electrolytic capacitor that don't sound the best.
  In a manual bias the cathode is grounded through the bias meter that is less then 1 ohm no nasty bypass capacitor needed.
  Self bias is better for the tubes supposedly but I never had a problem with fixed bias.
  So I feel manual bias sounds better at least that is my opinion.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I have sent plenty of stuff  to Greece with USPS no problen not even once.


 
   
  Let's put used and $200 then?


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Doh! Better put money aside then for the VAT, Import, registration and administrative costs. That's about 30% of the value you will tell USPS, so maybe we should keep it low indeed ($200?) and hope they miss the amp during check-in. And pray they don't lose the amp or damage it a lot. With tracking I presume?


 
   
  I would avoid a courier, USPS is the most reasonable service with the lowest customs duty.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I see all the 300B amps so far are manual bias.  I'd love to hear a little bit about why you went this way vs. a self-biasing design.  Does cathode or self-biasing come with a sound quality penalty perhaps?


 
   
   
  The BA uses 300B's and PX4's and has a self biasing circuit.
  The WA5 is also self biasing I think.
   
  The manual bias system is more flexible as you can use other tubes too.


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> I would avoid a courier, USPS is the most reasonable service with the lowest customs duty.




Out of experience I have always had most problems with USPS, highest taxes and longest declaration process (the courriers have their own dpt, usps uses national customs). With Usps i have had to wait several times for almost 2 months before they released my package


----------



## 2359glenn

Edited


----------



## 2359glenn

Picture  of Ultra's amp with 596 rectifier
   

   

   

   
  With the RK-60 rectifier


----------



## longbowbbs

That RK-60 looks like it has bunny ears...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> That RK-60 looks like it has bunny ears...


 
  And the 596 has grasshopper antennae...


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn remember Hios still to come!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

I am not sure what you mean?


----------



## rosgr63

We have lots to plan for next year remember?


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Oh boy. A Greek Meet in 2014...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Out of experience I have always had most problems with USPS, highest taxes and longest declaration process (the courriers have their own dpt, usps uses national customs). *With Usps i have had to wait several times for almost 2 months before they released my package*


 
   
  Even from events in times past, I am feeling your pain.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Even from events in times past, I am feeling your pain.


 
   
  This is the last I'll say about this, but did you know I had to pay half of the retail price extra to receive my LCD-2's. Most expensive LCD2 ever


----------



## Silent One




----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Oh boy. A Greek Meet in 2014...


 
   
   
  Another* BBC *session!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Another* BBC *session!


 
  Is there Food??


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Stavros are you coming to the CanJam Europe event in September in Essen, Germany?
> And my amp is shipping on thursday!!


 
   
  During my stay, would I be able to push a Brabus Mercedes (Porsche, Audi ect) down the Autobahn?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Picture  of Ultra's amp with 596 rectifier
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I can't stop looking at these pics. Man my amp looks gorgeous & monstrous at the same time. Love it!
  Great job Glenn!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I can't stop looking at these pics. Man my amp looks gorgeous & monstrous at the same time. Love it!
> Great job Glenn!!


 
  I am listening to your amp now as we speak.
  It sounds pretty good !


----------



## 2359glenn

Do you need a RK-60 tube I can through one in the box


----------



## Ultrainferno

That would be great!


----------



## 2359glenn

The one you see in the amp is yours.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Pssst! You... over there... with that corner piece of decadent dark chocolate... can you keep a secret?




   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



 
   
  I can't stop looking at pix of your carefully hand-crafted amp either.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thank you!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thank you!


 
   
  Bunnies & Grasshoppers? What's not to love in your audio garden?!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> In a self biasing amp will have a cathode resistor and bypass capacitor electrolytic capacitor that don't sound the best.
> In a manual bias the cathode is grounded through the bias meter that is less then 1 ohm no nasty bypass capacitor needed.
> Self bias is better for the tubes supposedly but I never had a problem with fixed bias.
> So I feel manual bias sounds better at least that is my opinion.


 

 Thanks Glenn.  So manual bias has fewer parts in the signal path, I can see the benefit from that.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I feel left out these days because I'm the only one who still talks about amps and not food.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Thanks Glenn.  So manual bias has fewer parts in the signal path, I can see the benefit from that.


 
  Would you want manual bias in your 45 amp ??


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Would you want manual bias in your 45 amp ??


 

 I think you should do it. You won't regret it!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I feel left out these days because I'm the only one who still talks about amps and not food.


 
   
  You're never alone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I only talk about things I'd like to have and don't - amps and food. It's a temporary experience but may have a Private screening for my NIB USAF-596 (pair) w/adapters; TSBGRP-VT-231/6SN7 pair.


----------



## Clayton SF

Gosh I love my amps.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I think you guys need chaperons.
> You'll probably be on the local news but please be aware that YouTube has no boundaries.


 
   
   
  Lion Tamers more likely.
  Are you good at that Clayton?
   
  Glenn are the 300B's running at 70mA?
  I can't tell for sure form the photo.
   
  Ultra is very lucky, this is a gorgeous looking amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Lion Tamers more likely.
> Are you good at that Clayton?
> 
> Glenn are the 300B's running at 70mA?
> ...


 
  Yesss. More like _*Gold Lion *_tamers!!!
  We are all very lucky...
   
  I'm listening to Glenn's mono blocks right now and the GZ37 are the best second only to the Tung-Sol 5U4GB.


----------



## rosgr63

Then you'll have a tough summer job next year won't you?
   
  What make is your GZ37?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Then you'll have a tough summer job next year won't you?
> 
> What make is your GZ37?


 

 It is Mullard CV378 KB/DA
  Like this one:


----------



## rosgr63

Nice tube, BTW what are you listening to?


----------



## Clayton SF

The soundtrack from Young Victoria.


----------



## rosgr63

I am listening to The Police.


----------



## Clayton SF

Great group! I love their Ghost in the Machine album.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am listening to The Police.


 
   
  Fav track:_ "When the World Is Running Down, You Make the Best of What's Still Around."_


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Pssst! You... over there... with that corner piece of decadent dark chocolate... can you keep a secret?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hands above the table, Mister
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Bunnies & Grasshoppers? What's not to love in your audio garden?!


 
   
  Me probably 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn are the 300B's running at 70mA?
> I can't tell for sure form the photo.
> 
> Ultra is very lucky, this is a gorgeous looking amp.


 
   
  70 it is. Thanks, I fully agree. Gorgeous!
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am listening to The Police.


 
   
  Clayton will be listening to "the police" too if he's still listening to his speakers at this hour


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Clayton will be listening to "the police" too if he's still listening to his speakers at this hour


 
   
  How time flew. I got up and then looked at the time. It was nearly midnight. Thank goodness I had the volume really low. Like at Step 4.
   
  It is now 5:30 AM and I am listening to classical violin music set at Step 5. My Normal listening is at Step 12 and that registers 75 dB 4 inches from the speaker. I should do more dB measurements from my comfortable couch. -- Okay, Step 5 is 53dB at a distance of 4 inches and 45 dB 5 feet away.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yesss. More like _*Gold Lion *_tamers!!!
> We are all very lucky...
> 
> I'm listening to Glenn's mono blocks right now and the GZ37 are the best second only to the Tung-Sol 5U4GB.


 
   
  I thought the TS 5U4GBs were not loved due to the voltage drop.  I am using a Mullard GZ37 in my Glenn amp too.  I really like it.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Lion Tamers more likely.
> Are you good at that Clayton?
> 
> Glenn are the 300B's running at 70mA?
> ...


Yes the 300Bs are running at 70ma
Even though the JJs can be run at 80ma no problem
I Have told Clayton to run them at 80ma
They might last longer at 70ma


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> I thought the TS 5U4GBs were not loved due to the voltage drop.  I am using a Mullard GZ37 in my Glenn amp too.  I really like it.


The voltage drop won't affect a 300b amp as much because the B+ voltage is much higher
425. Vrs 250 in the OTL.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I thought the TS 5U4GBs were not loved due to the voltage drop.  I am using a Mullard GZ37 in my Glenn amp too.  I really like it.


 
  I'm listening to speakers only so I don't know how a voltage drop would sound. The GZ37 definitely sounds more powerful, fuller, and a tad warmer but the TS 5U4GB carries its own as well and is second on my list. I'd like to try the RCA 5U4G tubes. I really liked them in my WA22 and WA6 amps--but then again, those are purely headphone amps.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Ultra
> how loud do you listen to your headphones ?


 
   
  I just tested the apps Clayton advised me, and from my listening position it measures between 55 and 75db from my speakers. When I'm in the mood and home alone, that might be more though 
  It's not headphones but it might give you an idea. How could I measure my headphones? Anyone?


----------



## rosgr63

SPL meter?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I just tested the apps Clayton advised me, and from my listening position it measures between 55 and 75db from my speakers. When I'm in the mood and home alone, that might be more though
> It's not headphones but it might give you an idea. How could I measure my headphones? Anyone?


 
  Listen to your headphones at the volume that you find comfortable. Remove your headphones from your head (no your foot) and hold the iPad's microphone right up to the headphone diaphragm. That should give you a ballpark reading.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Would you want manual bias in your 45 amp ??


 

 I was sort of hoping you wouldn't ask that actually.  I honestly can't decide.


----------



## dminches

Manual biasing is alas simple as can be. Go for it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Guys,
   
  I need some wisdom from you all. My cousin is looking for a phono stage. He's not really in to audio at all and I know nothing about vinyl but he's looking for a phono stage to connect his TT to a 2.1 Samsung home setup. I have no idea where to look and I doubt he wants to spend a lot of money.
   
  Is there a really cheap solution/unit that would do the trick?
   
  thanks for the help and sorry for the off topic


----------



## 2359glenn

Picture of the underside of Ultrainferno's amp


----------



## Ultrainferno

Impressive, to say the least but I do prefer the upper side


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Picture of the underside of Ultrainferno's amp
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Ultrainferno's%20underside%20%3B)


 
  Now that is beautifully made. I like that custom r-core transformer.
  Great work, Glenn.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Guys,
> I need some wisdom from you all. My cousin is looking for a phono stage. He's not really in to audio at all and I know nothing about vinyl but he's looking for a phono stage to connect his TT to a 2.1 Samsung home setup. I have no idea where to look and I doubt he wants to spend a lot of money.
> Is there a really cheap solution/unit that would do the trick?
> thanks for the help and sorry for the off topic


 
   
  I own a _*TC-754*_ (silver) 4-way input extender with integrated phono preamp. If he can wait 3 months then it is his. He'll have to find a 220v to 12v power convert wall wart though. So just say the word and I'll bring it with me when I move in.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Mister C!! I'll get back to you on that by mail. You deserve a medal. Or a life time of free cookies or something for your kindness!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Mister C!! I'll get back to you on that by mail. You deserve a medal. Or a life time of free cookies or something for your kindness!


----------



## Ultrainferno

ah yes, we've already been thinking of what pies we will learn you to make!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> ah yes, we've already been thinking of what pies we will learn you to make!


 

 And I'm working on that Mac & Cheese recipe. We won't have time to listen to any amps. Okay, maybe one or two or three. But for just a minute.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Picture of the underside of Ultrainferno's amp


 
   
  You know actually, this layout looks a lot like a
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 V-8 engine... I like it!


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You know actually, this layout looks a lot like a
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I was thinking 'yep, definitely would send this back to glenn if I needed some modification or fixing so I don't have to figure out the wiring".


----------



## Ultrainferno

Glenn, can you reveal something more about the next project you're working on?


----------



## john57

Glenn,
  I saw the picture of the underside of Ultrainferno's amp, Great job everything tie down good!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Glenn,
> I saw the picture of the underside of Ultrainferno's amp, Great job everything tie down good!


 

 And tied down good is a must for it to travel safely across the pond. It is now totally out of Glenn's skillful hands and into the hands of strangers.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Glenn, can you reveal something more about the next project you're working on?


 
  Not yet when I do I will have pictures.


----------



## Clayton SF

I own two Mullard GZ37 / CV387 tubes. One tests very strong and the other is still GOOD but not as strong. Since the bias on each amp can be set to 80 mA, does that mean they will perform equally the same in sound quality even though they are not a matched pair?


----------



## dminches

Clayton, I think only your ears can answer that.  Theoretically they should be fine but the one that tests good may not last as long.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Clayton, I think only your ears can answer that.  Theoretically they should be fine but the one that tests good may not last as long.


 
  They sound the same to my ears but performing a Life-Test on the GOOD tube showed a drop to "questionable" very quickly which translates to: it will fail soon.


----------



## Silent One

Whew! At least it's not an original WE 300B issue getting a "Questionable" read on the dial.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Whew! At least it's not an original WE 300B issue getting a "Questionable" read on the dial.


 

 I know!!!
  Now back to the fridge. 
  ... for a second ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I know!!!
> Now back to the fridge.
> ... for a second ...


 
   
  Currently, I'm in the mood. For tubes... _and music._ Any delivery system will do. From XIEMs to Full-size cans to Speakers. Complimented with French bubbly. These are post dinner thoughts swirling about my head.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> They sound the same to my ears but performing a Life-Test on the GOOD tube showed a drop to "questionable" very quickly which translates to: it will fail soon.


 
   
   
  If it doesn't develop a short or leakage it should be OK to use.
  Which tester are you using, and how long do you keep the life test on?
   
   
  Anything naughty in the fridge?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> If it doesn't develop a short or leakage it should be OK to use.
> Which tester are you using, and how long do you keep the life test on?
> 
> Anything naughty in the fridge?


 
   
  I own the Mighty Mite VII, Sencore TC28.
  I keep the life test on until it stops moving south toward BAD. About 120 seconds.
   
  Bad in the fridge--yes.
  I got chocolates from Ultrainferno. They're called Ferrero Rocher chocolate balls.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I get those every Christmas in my stockings. Favorite candy


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I own the Mighty Mite VII, Sencore TC28.
> I keep the life test on until it stops moving south toward BAD. About 120 seconds.
> 
> Bad in the fridge--yes.
> I got chocolates from Ultrainferno. They're called Ferrero Rocher chocolate balls.


 
   
   
  The Sencore TC28 has one of the best shorts/leakage tests at 100Khz.
  120secs is fine, 60secs is minimum.
  I have one as well and a TC162 in my tester collection.
   
  I find the FR light actually I need at least 10 to get the needle move to the bad section.


----------



## Silent One

May have my very first Tube Tester under the autumn skies...


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> May have my very first Tube Tester under the autumn skies...


 
   
   
  Ooo....have your eye set on a particular unit?
   
  Also: cookies, candy, chocolate, tubes. Just wanted to feel included!
   
  I've been busy as of late and had little time to just enjoy music aside from some ABBA while mowing and random Pandora channels at work. I hope everyine is doing fine.


----------



## Silent One

All my gear is in storage, save the iPod/HD650. Really missing the big rig right now. The G-22000 is still in the shop; ran out of money for its release. Things will improve shortly... I've still got my head up!
   
  Also, may be forced to sell my new pair of USAF-596s w/matching adapters from _WooAudio_. If pushed, may have to list the my pair of VT-231/6SN7GT TS-BGRPs...
   
  No particular unit in mind yet - will first talk to rosgr63; 2359glenn; Bob; Clayton SF and wotts.


----------



## wotts

I'm sure you'll get the 22000 out of hock soon. When will the move be complete?

I'm currently coming to y'all live, from the comfort of my bed. Enjoying a bit of Squeezebox -> 2265B -> HE-6 action. I'm so glad I opted for the 3m headphone cables...


----------



## Silent One

A "PM" to fill you in but still in transition; unexpected repairs set me back... a lot! Ah, the 2265B has got to be a Marantz! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Maybe September, I'll finally get my own Zeus cabled - hardwired HE-6 from Robert.


----------



## wotts

The Marantz it is indeed! I'm still working to get the Glenn OTL installed bedside to use with my T1s. For now, the HE-6 will have to "suffice". 

I'm thinking I'm might have to purse one of the fine 300B options I've seen here recently for the HiFi-Mans. I bet that combo will be excellent!


----------



## Silent One

I bet the OTL sings with the T1 pairing... 600 Ohms? Does the Marantz drive the '6' well? I plan on getting in line for the 300B action during football season most likely.


----------



## wotts

The T1 is 600 ohm, and is just magical with OTL amps. I have the Valhalla and Crack as well - all are great, but Glenn's amp has something....more.

The 2265 is wonderful for the 6! I switch the SX-1250 and the Marantz back and forth for them. And the Mjolnir. And the Aleph. O_o

And while both big vintage units sing with the HE-6, the W3000ANV are still amazing out of either. Albeit with lower volume knob settings.


----------



## Silent One

The 2265B & SX-1250, now that's some good livin' in my neighborhood!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> The Sencore TC28 has one of the best shorts/leakage tests at 100Khz.
> 120secs is fine, 60secs is minimum.
> I have one as well and a TC162 in my tester collection.
> 
> I find the FR light actually I need at least 10 to get the needle move to the bad section.


 
  So the tube that had a questionable life test arced when I turned on my amp. It passed the shorts test and still arced so I pulled it out. Since my tube tester didn't pick up an shorts on that particular tube, why did it arc? I'm just glad it didn't take down one of those mono blocks or I'd have to take a soldering class from Glenn via Skype!
   
  P.S. ...
   
  If you find the Ferrero Rocher light, try baking them in one of these!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> May have my very first Tube Tester under the autumn skies...


 
   
  I have been talking about that to Clayton and Stavros as well, that'll be my next purchase. Once the missed is forgot about the Glenn Integrated that is 
   
  Quote: 





wotts said:


> The Marantz it is indeed! I'm still working to get the Glenn OTL installed bedside to use with my T1s. For now, the HE-6 will have to "suffice".
> 
> I'm thinking I'm might have to purse one of the fine 300B options I've seen here recently for the HiFi-Mans. I bet that combo will be excellent!


 
   
   
  I'll let you know how it sounds. I got it mostly for my ortho's
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


>


 
   
  I've added it to the "to bake" menu


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So the tube that had a questionable life test arced when I turned on my amp. It passed the shorts test and still arced so I pulled it out. Since my tube tester didn't pick up an shorts on that particular tube, why did it arc? I'm just glad it didn't take down one of those mono blocks or I'd have to take a soldering class from Glenn via Skype!
> 
> P.S. ...
> 
> If you find the Ferrero Rocher light, try baking them in one of these!


 
  Clayton the worst thing that can happen if the rectifier arcs is the fuse blows
  The transformer is over kill so if the rectifier bl owes up nothing is going to happen.
  I have just gotten a transformer that is ridiculously big for a amp that is
  A BL63 driving two 6336s with two GZ37 rectifiers. The price of shipping
  this amp is not going to be pretty.
   
  Clayton  you can't be showing this good food it is almost lunch time
  here and I am trying to loose weight.
  Don't mater I am going to skip lunch any way and go on the roof and wire up some
  big motors so I don't have to go to work tomorrow.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Clayton the worst thing that can happen if the rectifier arcs is the fuse blows
> The transformer is over kill so if the rectifier bl owes up nothing is going to happen.
> I have just gotten a transformer that is ridiculously big for a amp that is
> A BL63 driving two 6336s with two GZ37 rectifiers. The price of shipping
> this amp is not going to be pretty.


 
   
  I stopped lifting weights and started moving Glenn's mono blocks one at a time from my living room to my bedroom. Back and forth, forth and back. You should see my arms now. I've gotten so strong lifting Glenn's mono blocks that I'll be able to "lift" Ultrainferno's amp quickly without him knowing it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I stopped lifting weights and started moving Glenn's mono blocks one at a time from my living room to my bedroom. Back and forth, forth and back. You should see my arms now. I've gotten so strong lifting Glenn's mono blocks that I'll be able to "lift" Ultrainferno's amp quickly without him knowing it.


 
  Ultra's amp weighs 33lbs/15kilos just shipped it yesterday and that wasn't pretty ether.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Ultra's amp weighs 33lbs/15kilos just shipped it yesterday and that wasn't pretty ether.


 
   
  Sorry


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So the tube that had a questionable life test arced when I turned on my amp. It passed the shorts test and still arced so I pulled it out. Since my tube tester didn't pick up an shorts on that particular tube, why did it arc? I'm just glad it didn't take down one of those mono blocks or I'd have to take a soldering class from Glenn via Skype!
> 
> P.S. ...
> 
> If you find the Ferrero Rocher light, try baking them in one of these!


 
   
  I had the same problem with one of the big Russians.
   
  The problem is the tester performs the tests according to its makers set up values which may not be close to the amps operating parameters.
  So the tube could perform well on the tester and still give problems.
   
  I am not thinking or talking food, too full at the minute.
*(Clayton I am lying.........)*


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hey Glenn, shoot me a PM, will ya?


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  How much $$ was that to ship?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> How much $$ was that to ship?


 
  $115 and that is crazy


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## wotts

I shipped an amp recently (to Europe) and that was over $700. I'm just glad I didn't have to foot the bill!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





   
  You do know that Glenn shipped via USPS, don't you?
*U*ltrainfero, *S*tation *P*lanet *S*aturn


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I shipped an amp recently (to Europe) and that was over $700. I'm just glad I didn't have to foot the bill!


 
   
  It's a good thing my 92 lb Sansui only needs to be shipped 400 miles.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I have just gotten a transformer that is ridiculously big for a amp that is
> A BL63 driving two 6336s with two GZ37 rectifiers. The price of shipping
> this amp is not going to be pretty.


 
   
  No worries here. I'll just opt for the "Super Saver" from USPS that allows them up to 30 days
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to ship from NC to Cali. Though, it could arrive in 2nd week.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I stopped lifting weights and started moving Glenn's mono blocks one at a time from my living room to my bedroom. Back and forth, forth and back. You should see my arms now. I've gotten so strong lifting Glenn's mono blocks that I'll be able to "lift" Ultrainferno's amp quickly without him knowing it.


 
   
  Wait 'till you start taking a 'block' up & down the stairs at your place, you'll be in fantastic shape!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Wait 'till you start taking a 'block' up & down the stairs at your place, you'll be in fantastic shape!


 
   
  LOL. Glenn's mono blocks shipped in 2 gigantic boxes. They must have weighed at least 35 lbs each. I actually carried each one up four flights of stairs to the third floor all by myself.
   
  So the next time an apartment opens up on the first floor, I should seriously consider moving in there.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> LOL. Glenn's mono blocks shipped in 2 gigantic boxes. They must have weighed at least 35 lbs each. I actually carried each one up four flights of stairs to the third floor all by myself.
> 
> *So the next time an apartment opens up on the first floor, I should seriously consider moving in there.*


 
   
  Nooooooo, there'll be trade offs! Not to sound selfish or anything but, we'll lose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 those brilliant shots outside your window. I absolutely adore Bay windows. Further, you'll be more exposed to street level noise and ground vibrations... well, in theory anyway.


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I shipped an amp recently (to Europe) and that was over $700. I'm just glad I didn't have to foot the bill!


 
  That person must have really wanted that amp :O


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> LOL. Glenn's mono blocks shipped in 2 gigantic boxes. They must have weighed at least 35 lbs each. I actually carried each one up four flights of stairs to the third floor all by myself.
> 
> So the next time an apartment opens up on the first floor, I should seriously consider moving in there.


 
  Then you'd have to pack ALL of your amps and move them into the first floor!


----------



## wolfetan44

How much do the arm things that attach to the tubes on a headphone amp cost from Glenn?


----------



## Silent One

I'm trying to picture what you're referring to...


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm trying to picture what you're referring to...


 

   
  Arm thing.....


----------



## Silent One

O... the adapters!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Do you have an amp/tube that needs one? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Ask Glenn by PM, that's the best solution


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Do you have an amp/tube that needs one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm most likely acquiring a BH Crack next month.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> O... the adapters!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> How much $$ was that to ship?


 
   
  $119.75 to be exact.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> I'm most likely acquiring a BH Crack next month.


 
   
  But the Crack (I have one) doesn't use a dedicated rectifier?


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I think I've seen Crack's that Glenn has modded, no?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm stuck on deciphering some Chatham tube codes. Can anyone point me in the right direction for Chatham tubes? (It are 2399 type tubes)
  Codes are
   
  817 B
  831
  743
  739
  842
  5920 (Probably 1959, week 20)
   
  The other tubes are probably the Year and the week (2 last chars), but what about the years...
   
  thanks!


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> The other tubes are probably the Year and the week (2 last chars), but what about the years...


 
   
  I agree. My guess is 1957 and 1958.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





oskari said:


> I agree. My guess is 1957 and 1958.


 
   
  Yeah, I wrote that down too. thanks. Other issue is with Chinese tubes coded 784 J and 791 J. any idea Oskari?


----------



## rosgr63

Three letter codes are usually late 40's early 50's.
   
  If they were WE I would say 40's, but these are most likely 50's.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm stuck on deciphering some Chatham tube codes. Can anyone point me in the right direction for Chatham tubes?


 
  Deciphering codes so early in the evening, Ultra-? Try deciphering codes after a few beers.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Deciphering codes so early in the evening, Ultra-? Try deciphering codes after a few beers.


 

 Champions league finnal soccer on TV tonight. have to do it now while the misses it watching "Pretty Little Liars"


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Champions league finnal soccer on TV tonight. have to do it now while the misses it watching "Pretty Little Liars"


 
  Who yah fer?
  http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/25/live-analysis-champions-league-final-bayern-munich-vs-dortmund/


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Champions league finnal soccer on TV tonight. have to do it now while the misses it watching "Pretty Little Liars"


 
   
  Get Your Priorities Right
   
  The beer is coiling the pizza and ice cream in the freezer waiting.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Other issue is with Chinese tubes coded 784 J and 791 J. any idea Oskari?


 
   
  YYM, I think. J = military grade.


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's what I was thinking too, didn't have a clue on the "J" though. thanks!
  I only have 2 Russian tubes left I cant decipher, I'll post the codes tomorrow.
  Thanks for all the help, All my tubes will ave been decoded  (OTK with a number means quality check, right?)


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> (OTK with a number means quality check, right?)


 
   
  Yep.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Tracking shows my amp just arrived at customs. Last time I bugged them that much by mail and phone, they actually released my $1700 DAC for free just so I'd stop calling each hour.
  I'll give them a day this time


----------



## rosgr63

That's good news, not long to go now.
   
  Good Luck!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ The misses must not leave the house


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ The misses must not leave the house


 
   
  Funny you say that. I already asked her nicely to stay home yesterday the whole day to wait for the UPS guy to show up 
   
  Edit. I just got of the phone with the post office (I couldn't resist) and customs has taken it aside for inspection. They're already talking about needing an invoice but I'll know more on friday.
  Glenn making an invoice, that would be a first I'm sure


----------



## 2359glenn

If I make a Invoice who do I send It to ??
  Never had to do this before But no problem
   
  Let me know
   Glenn


----------



## dminches

You would send it to Lieven so he can show it to customs.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> If I make a Invoice who do I send It to ??
> Never had to do this before But no problem
> 
> Let me know
> Glenn


 
   
  I'm just kidding Glenn. Our customs even ask for invoices when it are gifts. I'll get it sorted out, don't worry. Mostly they just want proof about the $200 value, that's it. But I'll explain it's a gift and I don't have and can not show any invoices.
  That way they'll probably fine me with a fixed amount and get it over with. Sure that might take a few weeks, but at least it arrived. The longest they kept an amp was 2 months, but on occasion they decide to let it go after 2 days.
   
  I'll know more on friday (they don't work fast). Can't wait to listen to it. I just hope they don't damage the amp or tubes when they open it up (cause they will)
   
  But thanks for offering!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'll know more on friday (they don't work fast). Can't wait to listen to it. I just hope they don't damage the amp or tubes when they open it up (cause they will)


 
_*L. Click on the picture...*_


----------



## Ultrainferno

Funny C. But let's hope not.
Oh no Glenn, they might steal the cookies! Lol
Might be a good bribe though


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Funny C. But let's hope not.
> Oh no Glenn, they might steal the cookies! Lol
> Might be a good bribe though


 

 What! You got cookies with your shipment? I threw out my boxes from Glenn. I should have checked them carefully before throwing them away.


----------



## rosgr63

Big Mistake!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm just kidding Glenn. Our customs even ask for invoices when it are gifts. I'll get it sorted out, don't worry. Mostly they just want proof about the $200 value, that's it. But I'll explain it's a gift and I don't have and can not show any invoices.
> That way they'll probably fine me with a fixed amount and get it over with. Sure that might take a few weeks, but at least it arrived. The longest they kept an amp was 2 months, but on occasion they decide to let it go after 2 days.
> 
> I'll know more on friday (they don't work fast). Can't wait to listen to it. I just hope they don't damage the amp or tubes when they open it up (cause they will)
> ...


 
   
  As long as they pack it back up right the RK-60 tube and adapters are in one of the foam tubes used as packing.
  There is no cookies my GF didn't have time to make any they will come in the speaker switch.
  I do know that she will be making strawberry preserves and more raspberry and strawberry cookies to send to Stavros and his family 
  In the next week or two.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Doh! I'll have to bribe those customs officers differently then 
  Thanks Glenn


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn don't send any over before you come, because I'll eat them all and get even fatter!
  Just put them in your case and we'll eat them together looking at tubes.................


----------



## 2359glenn

Stavros
   
  You have allot of fattening up to cetch up with me
  I live with L and she is always cooking somthing fattening
  I don't think we can bring them on the plane?


----------



## rosgr63

If you put them in your case it should be fine.
   
  Don't carry them with you, you'll eat them all and I'll be left with crumbs only..............


----------



## 2359glenn

I think we will only have carry on nothing checked
  at $100 per bag to check they are crazy.
  If we send them  your Family can have some don"t save them for us.
  We can always have them.


----------



## rosgr63

I am not sharing tubes amps and cookies, but I think you know that already.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am not sharing tubes amps and cookies, but I think you know that already.


 
   
  Not even with a fellow European?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Stavros
> 
> You have allot of fattening up to cetch up with me
> I live with L and she is always cooking somthing fattening
> I don't think we can bring them on the plane?


 

 Okay, you two. Ultrainferno and I will be catching up with you in the weight department soon. I'm leaving in August with a suitcase full of goodies that there won't be enough room to pack my change of clothes. Cookie crumbs?


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn have you ever tried the 6A3's?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn have you ever tried the 6A3's?


 
  Yes The same as a 2A3 but you have to run the heater on DC to keep the hum down especially if you are going to use them
  in a headphone amp.
  They are a good sounding tube though up there with the best.
  And easier to filter the 1 amp DC to the heater then the 2.5 amp DC to a 2A3.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Yes The same as a 2A3 but you have to run the heater on DC to keep the hum down especially if you are going to use them
> in a headphone amp.
> They are a good sounding tube though up there with the best.
> And easier to filter the 1 amp DC to the heater then the 2.5 amp DC to a 2A3.


 
   
  Have you ever resorted to using a Battery DC setup to fire the heaters? I've seen some wicked setups like this but never knew what tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Have you ever resorted to using a Battery DC setup to fire the heaters? I've seen some wicked setups like this but never knew what tubes.


 
  That would be a humungous battery. Anyway, isn't that the job of a rectifier?


----------



## rosgr63

It's easier to handle the 6A3, I agree.
   
  Sound wise are they similar to 2A3?
   
  The 2A3 were first introduced in 1936 and the 6A3 in 1940.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That would be a humungous battery. Anyway, isn't that the job of a rectifier?


 
   
  The job of the rectifier is to convert AC to DC. But, if you're starting out with DC to begin with, one has other options. Well, some more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





practical than others.


----------



## Clayton SF

You don't say. I actually thought the job of a rectifier was to convert AC current into cookies and chocolate eggs. I just have to find the right rectifier to do that job efficiently. rosgr63--which rectifier are you using?


----------



## 2359glenn

Hay I have Internet at home again my ISP is useless had no Internet since last Friday.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The job of the rectifier is to convert AC to DC. But, if you're starting out with DC to begin with, one has other options. Well, some more
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  A 6A3 is a good candidate for a battery amp.
  6 volt heater 6 volt lead acid battery's are easy to get and not much money.
  They run on relatively lo B+ voltage on the plate 250 but will work lower and put out 3.5 watts
  more then enough for any headphone.
  If you can afford the batteries this will be one of the quietest amps around.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Even silent enough... for...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 'Silent One?' May commission a year-end project with you in this regard.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Hay I have Internet at home again my ISP is useless had no Internet since last Friday.


 
   
  Next time I'm cafe side and over hear someone mention they'd like to go _off-grid,_ I'll likely picture you, your locale... _and no internet._


----------



## john57

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> A 6A3 is a good candidate for a battery amp.
> 6 volt heater 6 volt lead acid battery's are easy to get and not much money.
> They run on relatively lo B+ voltage on the plate 250 but will work lower and put out 3.5 watts
> more then enough for any headphone.
> If you can afford the batteries this will be one of the quietest amps around.


 
  Plus a trickle charger for the battery and to limit the hydrogen gas being generated. Sounds like a workable idea. I know of several people in my CAS group that uses big 6v lead batteries for their SS pre-amps.


----------



## Silent One

Pix available from CAS? Also, how to limit the gases?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Pix available from CAS? Also, how to limit the gases?


 
  Ceald gel cells and trickle chargers.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Pix available from CAS? Also, how to limit the gases?


 
  The guy that had that big tractor lead batteries was using for the electrostatic Sound Labs speakers system. Sorry no pictures. Glenn mention about using a sealed Gel battery that can be used in a confined or poorly ventilated spaces. Gel batteries are also good for boats since the batteries can be subject to various angles during boating. Just make sure that nothing will short out the battery terminals. I used to had a leaded gel battery in my UPS that a malfunction in the inverter circuit made the battery super hot. I was lucky at the time. Since then I use a large single hospital grade isolation transformer for all of my audio and video equipment without a problem and never gets warm. You should not have a problem just keep in mind I tend to think of all the negatives first before the positives just the way my mind works sometimes. I do not like manufactures that glorified their equipment. Knowing all the negatives, drawbacks, pitfalls and weakness does not stop me from enjoying the equipment I use for listening to music.


----------



## Silent One

In my big car audio system, I used sealed deep-cycle marine batteries complete with an isolator and Police-spec heavy duty alternator. This separation from the car's electrical system made a huge and very satisfying difference.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You don't say. I actually thought the job of a rectifier was to convert AC current into cookies and chocolate eggs. I just have to find the right rectifier to do that job efficiently. rosgr63--which rectifier are you using?


 
   
   
  I am using a 3DG4 for my Glenn OTL.
  I can hear Clayton saying: Stop talking about the 6A3 go ahead and try them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
   
  BTW when I look at my rectifiers I am always eating!!!!!!!!!
  Is that a coincidence?
   
   
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> Plus a trickle charger for the battery and to limit the hydrogen gas being generated. Sounds like a workable idea. I know of several people in my CAS group that uses big 6v lead batteries for their SS pre-amps.


 
   
   
   
  My RWA SS power amp driving my AKG1000 works with batteries.
  There is a French gentleman who converted his cellar into a power station to exclusively feed his audio gear!
  He even uses water cooled tubes..........
   
  I still prefer the real juice!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Not that anyone cares but I have news from the post office. They're not releasing the amp for the moment and I have to supply them with a whole bunch of data. Will take 2 weeks according to them, if all goes well.
  Good thing there aren't any cookies in there that might go bad.
   
  Sucks though.


----------



## rosgr63

Sorry to hear it Ultra, but two weeks is not that bad.
   
  Is the customs depot anywhere near you?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Sorry to hear it Ultra, but two weeks is not that bad.
> 
> Is the customs depot anywhere near you?


 
   
  Not that bad? It's awful when you really want it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (I'm not giving up that easy though)
  It's pretty near but you can not drive up there, you have to correspond by email and they will deliver it when they want, cash on delivery. You can't go pick it up or go there to shout at people.


----------



## Clayton SF

I wonder if these guys at your customs facility have ever seen a tube amp before? Or maybe they have and know that it is worth much more than you claim...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Let's hope not, it's sent from a private person so they can't find a price on the web from a shop. That happened to my LCD-2 and was quite painful.
  Ah we'll see. I've sent them all the info I can send, and hope the one clearing the goods is in a good mood
   
  But enough about this, I'll post pics and impressions when it gets here. Who has something new to share?


----------



## Clayton SF

I am now using Glenn's mono blocks as power amps. I have his amps' stepped attenuators set to step #18 and I am controlling the volume with a very nice preamp that uses two 6SN7s and a Mullard EZ80 rectifier. The preamp is a Audio Electronics (Cary) AE-DJH Super Preamp. It uses a Jensen oil cap and it also has a remote volume control.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Let's hope not, it's sent from a private person so they can't find a price on the web from a shop. That happened to my LCD-2 and was quite painful.
> Ah we'll see. I've sent them all the info I can send, and hope the one clearing the goods is in a good mood
> 
> But enough about this, I'll post pics and impressions when it gets here. Who has something new to share?


 
  Do you want me to make up a bogus invoice and E-Mail it to you then you can send it to them??


----------



## rosgr63

Nice set up Clayton!
   
  Is one 6SN7 input and the other output?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Nice set up Clayton!
> Is one 6SN7 input and the other output?


 
  I have no idea. Glenn, can you tell from its innards?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Nice set up Clayton!
> 
> Is one 6SN7 input and the other output?


 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I have no idea. Glenn, can you tell from its innards?


 
   
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Nice set up Clayton!
> 
> Is one 6SN7 input and the other output?


 
  It looks like one 6SN7 per side and 1/2 is for gain and 1/2 is cathode follower for output drive.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Nice set up Clayton!
> Is one 6SN7 input and the other output?


 
   
  Thanks! Nice sound too.
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> It looks like one 6SN7 per side and 1/2 is for gain and 1/2 is cathode follower for output drive.


 
   
  Wow, Glenn. You're impressive. Can you read palms too?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am now using Glenn's mono blocks as power amps. I have his amps' stepped attenuators set to step #18 and I am controlling the volume with a very nice preamp that uses two 6SN7s and a Mullard EZ80 rectifier. The preamp is a Audio Electronics (Cary) AE-DJH Super Preamp. It uses a Jensen oil cap and it also has a remote volume control.


 
   
_Play Day by the Bay_... quite nice, really.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Play Day by the Bay_... quite nice, really.


 
  I know. Playtime--and right before I leave to go to work, too! I had the Zana Deux SE as preamp and it sounded fantastic but with the Zana Deux in the mix, my PS Audio PPP AC Regenerator was working overtime, which is what it is supposed to do. But I thought that I'd give the PPP a rest.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I know. Playtime--and right before I leave to go to work, too! I had the Zana Deux SE as preamp and it sounded fantastic but with the Zana Deux in the mix, my PS Audio PPP AC Regenerator was working overtime, which is what it is supposed to do. But I thought that I'd give the PPP a rest.


 
   
  Your post is timely - I need to setup another Tea tin to save up for a PS Audio Regenerator.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your post is timely - I need to setup another Tea tin to save up for a PS Audio Regenerator.


 
  I didn't take a photo but you can well imagine what the tube setup would look like with the Zana Deux between those mono blocks. Massive! I'll have to install a vent in the roof.


----------



## 2359glenn

/img/forum/go_quote.gif
   
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks! Nice sound too.
> 
> 
> Wow, Glenn. You're impressive. Can you read palms too?


 
   
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I know. Playtime--and right before I leave to go to work, too! I had the Zana Deux SE as preamp and it sounded fantastic but with the Zana Deux in the mix, my PS Audio PPP AC Regenerator was working overtime, which is what it is supposed to do. But I thought that I'd give the PPP a rest.


 
   
  There is only so many circuits to do this this is all old technology so it is easy to figure what is in something.
   
   
  Do these power regenerator's really make a difference in the sound?????
  I am a skeptic and really don't believe in this stuff.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> There is only so many circuits to do this this is all old technology so it is easy to figure what is in something.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I live in an old apartment building built in 1927. I run my entire system out of one outlet. One.
   
  I didn't do it for the sound I did it because the voltage in my apartment drops quite a bit. It is an old apartment so when the refrigerator and fan are on along with the various stereo components, the voltage may drop to 105v. So the PPP is really there to screen out all of the clicks and snaps that I get when the refrigerator, coffee pot, crock pot, fan, and other electrical equipment turn on and off during the time I am listening to my stereo. Typically the PPP keeps the voltage at a constant 120v.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I didn't take a photo but you can well imagine what the tube setup would look like with the Zana Deux between those mono blocks. Massive! *I'll have to install a vent in the roof. *


 
   
  Just roll it into the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 kitchen... and use that vent!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'll be getting one for both sound and regulation. The home that I'm leaving has terrible AC quality. Seemingly hundreds of GFCI's, dimmers and other ghosts and goblins. And the voltage here is
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hot! I routinely observe voltage swings from 122v-130v+ with an average of 124v.
   
  And will invest in a regenerator before hand - do not yet have a new place and AC is unknown.


----------



## rosgr63

You are too modest Glenn.
   
  BTW did you try/like the strawberries?


----------



## Silent One

Oh my, Strawberries are in season out here, mmmm. Meanwhile, I'm fixin' to make do with a Maple scone & cold glass of milk, cafe side in 20 minutes.
   
  Once there, I'll focus on my business affairs for a hard 30 minutes. And then? Why, Head-Fi of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




course! Will relax perusing head-fi and other audio destinations to look at more audio bites & candy for a few hours.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You are too modest Glenn.
> 
> BTW did you try/like the strawberries?


 
   
  No not yet
  But L said we are going to get them after work today.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Glenn, let's first see what happens with customs and if I need anything you'll be the first to know. But thanks for offering.

Now I am off to the pub for some belgian lager and some gambling.

Have a nice evening everyone!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Glenn, let's first see what happens with customs and if I need anything you'll be the first to know. But thanks for offering.
> Now I am off to the pub for some belgian lager and some gambling.
> Have a nice evening everyone!


 
  Oh, yes. It's Thursday evening over there. Good luck and cheers!


----------



## rosgr63

That's a nice way to bribe the customs officers Ultra, I like it!!!!!!!
   
  Have a nice evening.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote:


rosgr63 said:


> That's a nice way to bribe the customs officers Ultra, I like it!!!!!!!
> 
> Have a nice evening.


 
   
  Big loss last night. That's gambling I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Anyway, good news from Customs. I have bugged the hell out of them again and the amp will be delivered on monday or tuesday. $100 customs fee, which is what I expected.
  Good thing we put $200 on the customs form Glenn, at the rate of 50% customs fee it could have gotten quite expensive with the real value.
   
  Pics next week that means


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Big loss last night. That's gambling I guess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You should have started gambling before you started drinking beer.
  That usually works out better for me.
  But no more gambling here in North Carolina for me.


----------



## rosgr63

Happy ending Ultra, that's very good.
   
  You'll have a good excuse for a few more beverages tonight!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Happy ending Ultra, that's very good.
> You'll have a good excuse for a few more beverages tonight!!!!!!!!!!


 
  And Mexican food....


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'll be right over....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Big loss last night. That's gambling I guess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's what I like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to hear!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I hope the amp arrives tomorrow as I won't be home on Tuesday to unpack and listen to it! If it arrives tomorrow morning, I'm taking half a day off.
  I went gambling again yesterday, and I made up for Thursday's loss and even more as doubled it. Paying customs fee: Check! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Why can't you gamble in NC, Glenn?


----------



## warchild

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I live in an old apartment building built in 1927. I run my entire system out of one outlet. One.
> 
> I didn't do it for the sound I did it because the voltage in my apartment drops quite a bit. It is an old apartment so when the refrigerator and fan are on along with the various stereo components, the voltage may drop to 105v. So the PPP is really there to screen out all of the clicks and snaps that I get when the refrigerator, coffee pot, crock pot, fan, and other electrical equipment turn on and off during the time I am listening to my stereo. Typically the PPP keeps the voltage at a constant 120v.


 
  I have Duke Power in a fairly rural area and my power goes out whenever it rains! I have a power line conditioner set up before the electric panel and after the meter and UPS's on everything in the house that can live with them. Duke Power runs from about 70 volts to 140 spikes. They've killed hard drives and amps as well as tubes. I've given thought to running off of batteries for the music center,
  I've invested almost as much into clean electricity as I have music! That said the power regenerators seem hyper expensive for minimal returns. I'm waiting to see something definitive. Meanwhile, I'm moving at the end of the month! The next buyer will probably be freaked out by the over wiring in the house . . .


----------



## warchild

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Why can't you gamble in NC, Glenn?


 
  Only thing legal is Bingo and the lottery I'd guess.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





warchild said:


> I have Duke Power in a fairly rural area and my power goes out whenever it rains! I have a power line conditioner set up before the electric panel and after the meter and UPS's on everything in the house that can live with them. Duke Power runs from about 70 volts to 140 spikes. They've killed hard drives and amps as well as tubes. I've given thought to running off of batteries for the music center,
> I've invested almost as much into clean electricity as I have music! That said the power regenerators seem hyper expensive for minimal returns. I'm waiting to see something definitive. Meanwhile, I'm moving at the end of the month! The next buyer will probably be freaked out by the over wiring in the house . . .


 
  The power in NC does suck I have Piedmont Electric and all they do
  is buy crappy power from Duke and resell it.
  It has gotten better recently it used to go out every week.
  It is not noisy it is just all over the place.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I hope the amp arrives tomorrow as I won't be home on Tuesday to unpack and listen to it! If it arrives tomorrow morning, I'm taking half a day off.
> I went gambling again yesterday, and I made up for Thursday's loss and even more as doubled it. Paying customs fee: Check!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That is about it Bingo and the lottery no gambling
  This is the Bible belt in the USA but that is OK it saves me money.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You are too modest Glenn.
> 
> BTW did you try/like the strawberries?


 
  Strawberries
   
  We have been cleaning and making strawberry preserves all weekend I
  ate so much I didn't feel will  maybe ate 100
  some cut up to put on ice cream later


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Strawberries
> 
> We have been cleaning and making strawberry preserves all weekend I
> ate so much I didn't feel will  maybe ate 100
> some cut up to put on ice cream later


 

 Dip them in melted chocolate. Drop them in champagne (right Ultra- ?)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The power in NC does suck I have Piedmont Electric and all they do
> is buy crappy power from Duke and resell it.
> It has gotten better recently it used to go out every week.
> It is not noisy it is just all over the place.


 
   
  Two years ago, I bought a Monster Power Center Pro-2500. And returned it a week later. The unit would not come out of "Alarm mode protection." The audible alarm marred my beautiful music presentation - dare to say it was _down-right-annoying._
   
  Called up Tech Support; asked how to reset the unit. The Rep replied _"Oh, you can't do it yourself. You'll need to send it in"  _I was stunned by this revelation! A power conditioner... in 2011... without a "Reset Button?!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I also learned that the alarm would be triggered again @ 120v +. If I have voltage swings from 120v-130v nightly, why 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


bother? We went ahead and got our $$$ back!
   
   
On another front, a couple of moons back, I asked Jack about getting a WA5 with a drive tube other than the 6SN7, like the C3m instead. He explained the windings for the transformer were done specifically for the 6SN7 tube. And that any other driver would require time, testing and money. Fair enough.
   
My question for you is one of adaptability: can the amp be retrofitted to take a different driver after production? Or not worth our time, money and effort?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  French bubbly - so right, with so many things... _especially tubes._


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Two years ago, I bought a Monster Power Center Pro-2500. And returned it a week later. The unit would not come out of "Alarm mode protection." The audible alarm marred my beautiful music presentation - dare to say it was _down-right-annoying._
> 
> Called up Tech Support; asked how to reset the unit. The Rep replied _"Oh, you can't do it yourself. You'll need to send it in"  _I was stunned by this revelation! A power conditioner... in 2011... without a "Reset Button?!"
> 
> ...


 
  What amp are you talking about ??
   
My question for you is one of adaptability: can the amp be retrofitted to take a different driver after production? Or not worth our time, money and effort?
   
The C3g would be a better candidate with a 6.3 volt heater the same as a 6SN7.
The C3m has a 20 volt heater.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *2359glenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> What amp are you talking about ??
> ...


 
   
  The WooAudio WA5...
   
  I overlooked looking at the "heaters."


----------



## Clayton SF

C3g is the one!
  Thanks for incorporating that tube into your mono blocks.
  It pairs so nicely with the GZ37 and the 300B.
  Great design, Glenn.


----------



## Silent One

I'm looking into the feasibility of incorporating the C3g as a drive tube for the WA5.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Dip them in melted chocolate. Drop them in champagne (right Ultra- ?)


 
  That's correct. I also like strawberry in my Mojito and in pie. But mostly I just mash them up and add a lot of sugar.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> The WooAudio WA5...
> 
> I overlooked looking at the "heaters."


 
   
  You just wanted the pretty mesh plates, didn't you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> C3g is the one!
> Thanks for incorporating that tube into your mono blocks.
> It pairs so nicely with the GZ37 and the 300B.
> Great design, Glenn.


 
   
  That's the first combination I'll try!
   
  On a side note, I discovered New Yorker chocolate chip cookies yesterday. Delicious!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nothing like sticking to the fundamentals!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You just wanted the pretty mesh plates, didn't you?


 
   





 Y-e-a-h, I suppose... you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 got me!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *2359glenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> *The C3g would be a better candidate with a 6.3 volt heater the same as a 6SN7.*


 
   
  Thanks. If I'm understanding you, it would be a simple matter of having an adapter made - 6SN7 > C3g, is that correct?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks. If I'm understanding you, it would be a simple matter of having an adapter made - 6SN7 > C3g, is that correct?


 
  Not that simple
  The 6SN7 is a dual triode and the C3g is a pentode
  It is doable though input to the grid of of triode #1 and plate to the plate of triode #2.
  The C3 tubes are better at driving a 300B then a 6SN7
  But what do I know.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> _*But what do I know.*_


 
  You know how to build great sounding amps!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Not that simple
> The 6SN7 is a dual triode and the C3g is a pentode
> It is doable though input to the grid of of triode #1 and plate to the plate of triode #2.
> The C3 tubes are better at driving a 300B then a 6SN7
> But what do I know.


 
   
  I'd put a greater emphasis on what you understand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 than what you know. And you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




understand audio electronics (and much much more). I am suffering - I really should have thought my question out more carefully before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




asking. But in this hobby _we want answers_ _now! _




   
  I guess I'll worry about paying the modification Toll when/if I cross the WA5 bridge...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I guess I'll worry about paying the modification Toll when/if I cross the WA5 bridge...


 
  Will Jack modify the WA5 so that it can use a C3g? That would be awesome looking. Especially in your favorite color: Black.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I asked - not at this time. The windings on the transformer are done specifically with the 6SN7 tubes in mind. Said that they would need time to modify and test before doing such a thing. And their current design is based on the popularity of the 6SN7 - _"It's what customers want."_
   
  But those reading this thread know we seek custom builds.


----------



## Skylab

I have to say, my experience with pentodes being strapped triode hasn't been that great. The amps I have heard of that ilk were all very prone to hum problems. Just FWIW.


----------



## rosgr63

Much depends on the design and pentode choice.
   
  Some makers use pentodes with very good results.


----------



## Skylab

Don't get me wrong - I LOVE pentodes as output tubes in push - pull designs. Some of my favorite amps are that way! But with a pentode strapped for triode operation as an input tube I've had less that satisfactory experiences with. Admittedly this is only from maybe a half-dozen amps or so.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Don't get me wrong - I LOVE pentodes as output tubes in push - pull designs. Some of my favorite amps are that way! But with a pentode strapped for triode operation as an input tube I've had less that satisfactory experiences with. Admittedly this is only from maybe a half-dozen amps or so.


 
  Hum problem that is more in design then the tube.
  The C3 tubes are special made tubes and there are not many amps made that use this tube.
  It is all subjective anyway.
  I don't like pentodes in push pull the amp has to have gobs of feedback to get rid of the distortion
  of pentodes.  To me feedback takes the life out of the music.
  Maybe this is just me but I only use direct heated triodes as outputs in my system I use direct
  heated triodes throughout #26 > #10 > 300B my headphone amp is #26 > 2A3.
  Direct heated triodes are a PITA  to work with each one needs its own DC power supply for the
  heater. The C3 tubes are the best sounding tubes I can come up with to keep the cost of the
  amps down. A 6SN7 cannot properly drive the miller capacitance of a 300B.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote:  





> A 6SN7 cannot properly drive the miller capacitance of a 300B.


 
  Can you explain this last statement a bit more?  Both Eddie Current and Woo Audio use 6SN7's in their 300B amps, so I was wondering what gives?


----------



## Skylab

Glenn you know far more about tubes and tube amps than I will ever know, and I totally agree that it's more the design than the tube. If you have worked a design that uses the C3, I'm sure that's great. I was referring more to trying to use one in place of a 6SN7 in an amp designed for a 6SN7. But again, you would know better than I would even in general.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Hum problem that is more in design then the tube.
> The C3 tubes are special made tubes and there are not many amps made that use this tube.
> It is all subjective anyway.
> I don't like pentodes in push pull the amp has to have gobs of feedback to get rid of the distortion
> ...


 
   
  Personally I would have loved to go for an amp that uses the #10 as a driver, but it just didn't seem like there would be enough gain without an active pre-amp in the setup like you are doing with your own system.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I asked - not at this time. The windings on the transformer are done specifically with the 6SN7 tubes in mind. Said that they would need time to modify and test before doing such a thing.* And their current design is based on the popularity of the 6SN7 - "It's what customers want."*
> 
> But those reading this thread know we seek custom builds.


 
   
  Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> Can you explain this last statement a bit more?  Both Eddie Current and Woo Audio use 6SN7's in their 300B amps, so I was wondering what gives?


 
  The above quote says it all!!    People want to have 6SN7s even if there is a better sounding tubes out there.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Folks have heard the phrase _The Perfect is the Enemy of the Good_ right? 
   
  In these matters in particular, sometimes maybe the popular is the enemy of the good.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Absolutely! The manufacturer wants to sell products people will buy.


----------



## dminches

Is the Decware Taboo an amp which uses a pentode (EL84) in a push pull desgn?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Glenn you know far more about tubes and tube amps than I will ever know, and I totally agree that it's more the design than the tube. If you have worked a design that uses the C3, I'm sure that's great. I was referring more to trying to use one in place of a 6SN7 in an amp designed for a 6SN7. But again, you would know better than I would even in general.


 
   
  This is me just being wishful... _before I knock over the tea tins for savings._ I'm now feeling resigned to either getting it (WA5) and being happy with it or simply have 2359glenn|studios build me another amp.


----------



## Skylab

silent one said:


> This is me just being wishful... _before I knock over the tea tins for savings._ I'm now feeling resigned to either getting it (WA5) and being happy with it or simply have 2359glenn|studios build me another amp.




Totally understandable. I was just wanting to discourage the idea of using the C3 via an adapter in a WA 5 . If Glenn designs an amp around the C3, or any tube for that matter, I'm sure it would be great!



dminches said:


> Is the Decware Taboo an amp which uses a pentode (EL84) in a push pull desgn?




No, it's single ended. The Leben CS-300 we both haveis push-pull, however.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is me just being wishful... _before I knock over the tea tins for savings._ I'm now feeling resigned to either getting it (WA5) and being happy with it or simply have 2359glenn|studios build me another amp.


 
  So I've been considering a 300B amp as well.  Glenn...what do I need to do to get an idea of what your amps offer over the competition and the like?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> So I've been considering a 300B amp as well.  Glenn...what do I need to do to get an idea of what your amps offer over the competition and the like?


 
   
  Clayton SF really seems to be enjoying his custom built 300B (Integrated) monos from the studio. I've had the pleasure sitting in with him one evening - his appreciation for music is high and he treats it with respect. 
   
  I'm almost certain if those 300B mono blocks sounded little better than 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


cement blocks, he'd have pushed 'em out the window Day 1! Perhaps, you could quiz him on the other side (PM).


----------



## 2359glenn

You would have to ask someone like Clayton sf who has one.
  I do know that he hooked up the C3g > 300b amp and put his Leben CS-600 away.
  The C3g can put out 1.5 watts to drive the 300Bs grid.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Don't get me wrong - I LOVE pentodes as output tubes in push - pull designs. Some of my favorite amps are that way! But with a pentode strapped for triode operation as an input tube I've had less that satisfactory experiences with. Admittedly this is only from maybe a half-dozen amps or so.


 
   
  Rob, please don't get me wrong.
  You have a vast experience and your comments are very valid much more than mine.
  I am using two pentode driver amps and the results are good so far.
  If an amp is designed around pentode drivers then it should be fine.
  As for hum, is there a tube amp that doesn't use over filtering to completely eliminate hum?
  Then the headphones impedance/sensitivity will be important.
   
   
  Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> So I've been considering a 300B amp as well.  Glenn...what do I need to do to get an idea of what your amps offer over the competition and the like?


 
   
  If you can audition one then you'll know for sure.
  As for the competition don't forget the cost comes into it.
  I have some amps that cost ten times more than my Glenn's OTL and it still performs excellent compared to them.


----------



## Ultrainferno

So how many actually have a Glenn 300b amp? Clayton has one, I'll have one tonight and probably Glenn has a few 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Is there an overview of everything you've built (for the Head-fi people),Glenn? I know of the standard OTL, Dminches's and Stavros's OTL and the Stereo Integrated/MBs but maybe I'm forgetting something. Wasn't SO working on a website or something? Or did I dream that. Hmm


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> So how many actually have a Glenn 300b amp? Clayton has one, I'll have one tonight and probably Glenn has a few
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  There isn't that many of my amps out there. I only do this after work and if I have to stay late I get nothing done.
  Clayton has the only 300B amps out there and now you and of coarse I have a pair but mine is different with a #10
  driving the 300B.
     The C3g was to get a good sounding low cost driver and be able to put it in one chassis. You told me that you
  only wanted one chassis. I could not do that with all DHTs and a separate DC power supply for each one of these tubes.
  The C3g allowed me to do this and still have good sound for low cost. Ware else could you have gotten a stereo 300B
  amp at that price. Maybe China and would not have as good sound.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> So how many actually have a Glenn 300b amp? Clayton has one, I'll have one tonight and probably Glenn has a few
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 Your dream was likely fueled by that handwritten note on fine French Paper I was sending... no websites. haha


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> There isn't that many of my amps out there. I only do this after work and if I have to stay late I get nothing done.
> Clayton has the only 300B amps out there and now you and of coarse I have a pair but mine is different with a #10
> driving the 300B.
> The C3g was to get a good sounding low cost driver and be able to put it in one chassis. You told me that you
> ...


 
   
  I fully agree about that. I wasn't complaining about my amp or the price you know. Just trying to figure out the different models and members of the Glenn Amp Owners Club. We all recognize the effort and time you put into this and appreciate it a lot.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your dream was likely fueled by that handwritten note on fine French Paper I was sending... no websites. haha


 
   
  If I'm starting to dream about you and things we've talked about by PM, I'm convinced it's time to leave the boards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: My gf just sent me this. She's evil.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Its here!! Open that bad boy up and get it set up! Then take pictures..


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Edit: My gf just sent me this. She's evil.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20When%20opened%2C%20contents%20may%20explode%20with%20incredible%20sounding%20music.


 
   
  NOTE: The packing materials can also be used to bop each other on the noggin all the live long day. Be careful, though, stuffed in one of them are fragile items of value.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I fully agree about that. I wasn't complaining about my amp or the price you know. Just trying to figure out the different models and members of the Glenn Amp Owners Club. We all recognize the effort and time you put into this and appreciate it a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
    
  I was just saying I try to keep the price down as much as possible.
  most amps like this cost $2K+  that is ridicules.
   
  It doesn't look like customs ever opened it looks just like I shipped it.
  And looks like no damage.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> It doesn't look like customs ever opened it looks just like I shipped it.
> And looks like no damage.


 
  I know. Looks good. It only goes to show you how the US handles their deliveries versus Europe. My boxes arrived with holes in them and crushed from top to bottom. Fortunately Glenn packed them securely and nothing serious happened to the amps.


----------



## dminches

Generally, if the item inside cannot move and it is double boxed or well insulated then it should be ok.


----------



## 2359glenn

I can usually ship to Europe with less damage
  then shipping across the country to Clayton


----------



## Ultrainferno

Must be Clayton


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I know. Looks good. It only goes to show you how the US handles their deliveries versus Europe. *My boxes arrived with holes in them and crushed from top to bottom*. Fortunately Glenn packed them securely and nothing serious happened to the amps.


 
   
  This is interesting. While my OTL box suffered no holes, ALL sides were collapsed! Giving it the appearance the package sat on the very 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




bottom of a tall & heavy stack.


----------



## Clayton SF

USPS with one of the 300B mono block boxes shipped from Glenn.
  I wonder what happened to the other mono block?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Ultrainferno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: My gf just sent me this. She's evil.


 
   
  That's a good looking box! You just joined a very elite group only two members strong. We'll have to change
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




that later this year...


----------



## rosgr63

Nice video Clayton!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Just got home early after a 16hour workday. Quickly unpacked the amp. Looks great, very heavy.
More tomorrow. Sleep now.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Ultrainferno

Safety first!
  Me a teaser? Never


----------



## dminches

You better hope Glenn isn't a teaser!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Safety first!
> Me a teaser? Never


 
  Nice an amp AND beach toys!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'll post pictures tonight (I don't have more for the moment). Unless I'm too lost in the wonderful music that is.
  Cfr; Beachtoys: I'll keep them so Clayton SF can play with them in the swimming pool


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'll post pictures tonight (I don't have more for the moment). Unless I'm too lost in the wonderful music that is.
> Cfr; Beachtoys: I'll keep them so Clayton SF can play with them in the swimming pool


 

 Great! Remember, I'm from originally from Hawaii (so?). I'll bonk yer noggin with them floatation devices. Now here's the question. Can I wield a tube in one hand while holding a beverage in the other? We shall see! video at 11 and in August.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Soooo, I was just installing the tubes and noticed one of the new 300Bs is very loose in its base. Grrr
  Is it safe to use or should I ask for an exchange?


----------



## rosgr63

Ask for a replacement as it'll only get worst.
   
  A loose base will eventually cause a short as the elements touch.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks Glenn and Stavros, I've already boxed them up and they're going back tomorrow morning. The dealer agreed (I hope he sends me a good pair now)
  Damn, another week without the amp. I haven't even heard it. Talk about getting in a bad mood!
  In the mean time I can show you a pic of how it looks
   

   

   
  Man, I'm disappointed and angry. Fortunately I have something beautiful now to look at (without tubes)


----------



## 2359glenn

You can try to put it in and make sure it is the same as the other tube
  with the flat side of the plate facing forward.
  Just to listen a little then you can ether super glue the tube or send it back.
  .It should be OK unless the tube got twisted in the base so the wires cross and Short
   
  Or you can try just one side with one tube?  won't sound that good that way.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks Glenn, I want the full experience or nothing though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's not that I can turn the tube in the base but it wiggles from left to right, I have no other tube that wiggles like that
  I replied just above you with a pic or 2, it does look great the pics don't do it justice


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thanks Glenn, I want the full experience or nothing though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  If that is all that it wiggles I would run it for now then maybe send it back.
  If it hasn't gotten twisted it will be fine for now and run with no problems.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> If that is all that it wiggles I would run it for now then maybe send it back.
> If it hasn't gotten twisted it will be fine for now and run with no problems.


 
   
  It's already boxed up and taped in. I prefer to not make it worse and get good tubes without having tried them, in case they start nagging about that.
  Let's hope they send me a new pair and not return the same cause they don't agree. The 300b are the only tubes I don't have spares for, what a coincidence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So I'll let you know in a week and a half how it sounds. Good thing I still have desktop amp or 5 to keep me busy


----------



## john57

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thanks Glenn, I want the full experience or nothing though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ultrainferno,
   
  Sorry that you are having issues. I have several tubes including some 6SN7 tubes bases that were a bit loose, crooked or cracked but still worked fine with super glue. I now noticed that you are sending the tube back. It is better to feel safe and not have doubts later on in your case.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Ultrainferno,
> 
> Sorry that you are having issues. I have several tubes including some 6SN7 tubes bases that were a bit loose, crooked or cracked but still worked fine with super glue. I now noticed that you are sending the tube back. It is better to feel safe and not have doubts later on in your case.


 
   
  thanks John, especially with a new 300B I'd like them to be in good condition. It's just sad that when it finally gets here, a tube I don't have a back up off is not "good"
  Ah well, one more week


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thanks Glenn and Stavros, I've already boxed them up and they're going back tomorrow morning. The dealer agreed (I hope he sends me a good pair now)
> Damn, another week without the amp. I haven't even heard it. Talk about getting in a bad mood!
> In the mean time I can show you a pic of how it looks
> 
> ...


 
  Thats beautiful!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Congrats on the amp Ultra, and sorry you can't hear it right away.  300B are a hard tube to keep backups for given how much they cost.


----------



## Silent One

And we thought Clearing Customs would be the hitch in the giddy-up.


----------



## telecaster

Simple cure for a loose base is nail polish, sturdy enough, transparent, and easy to clean. I have had many old NOS tube with loose base and it's the perfect cure!


----------



## telecaster

Congrats on the beautiful amp Ultra! Those 300B are getting insanely expensive for the NOS... Is it because you wanted to join the wagon? 300B and HP, I'm curious!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I needed a change from the OTLs and this is mostly for my speakers too


----------



## telecaster

Oh I see, must sound sweet, it's a bummer you had to send back the tubes...


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thanks Glenn and Stavros, I've already boxed them up and they're going back tomorrow morning. The dealer agreed (I hope he sends me a good pair now)
> Damn, another week without the amp. I haven't even heard it. Talk about getting in a bad mood!
> In the mean time I can show you a pic of how it looks
> 
> ...


 
  Looks great what brand is the tube you having the issue with.


----------



## daigo

That is a nice looking amp, Ultra.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


>


 
  Your amp looks absolutely stunning even when it is toothless tubeless!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I love the blue touch. Another pic will I wait for the new JJ tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

There is 3 more of the blue capacitors under the chassis
  The silver ones are the vitamin-Q paper in oil coupling capacitors


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> There is 3 more of the blue capacitors under the chassis
> The silver ones are the vitamin-Q paper in oil coupling capacitors
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Nice%20and%20Blue


 
  Are those blue capacitors NOS? They look great.


----------



## rosgr63

The blue are of the blueberries in cookies variety C!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> The blue are of the blueberries in cookies variety C!


 
  ... and that r-core transformer looks like a tub of ice cream r!


----------



## john57

Like the knobs with the flange, just a bit of style!


----------



## Ultrainferno

so I sent the tubes back to the shop, guess what: Delivery impossible due to incorrect address
 So now I have to wait till the tubes get back here, then send them again. That's twice the (insured) shipping costs AND an extra week of waiting. I shipped it to the address they gave me, so they better cover for the shipping costs.
 This is not good for my mood!


----------



## dminches

Damn.  That would frustrate me to no end.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> so I sent the tubes back to the shop, guess what: Delivery impossible due to incorrect address
> So now I have to wait till the tubes get back here, then send them again. That's twice the (insured) shipping costs AND an extra week of waiting. I shipped it to the address they gave me, so they better cover for the shipping costs.
> This is not good for my mood!


 
   
  I am sure that you are making all of this up and you are right now relaxing with your 300B GlennAmp. (Okay, bad joke.) You couldn't have made this up even if you tried.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> so I sent the tubes back to the shop, guess what: Delivery impossible due to incorrect address
> So now I have to wait till the tubes get back here, then send them again. That's twice the (insured) shipping costs AND an extra week of waiting. I shipped it to the address they gave me, so they better cover for the shipping costs.
> This is not good for my mood!


 
   
  Sorry to hear about this latest frustration. In the same way we test tubes with patience, you're simply being tested on patience with tubes... keep your head up!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> There is 3 more of the blue capacitors under the chassis
> The silver ones are the vitamin-Q paper in oil coupling capacitors


 
   
  Time to break out my 48" Black light and really 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 see what's up in there!


----------



## Xcalibur255

You might be better off just ordering another pair of tubes separately then sorting out the return.  It would at least bring the waiting time back to one week.


----------



## Ultrainferno

My girlfriend just let me know the new 300B tubes were delivered 5 minutes ago. Turns out the tube company called the post office after I informed them about the incorrect address, and they immediately sent out new tubes so I didn't have to wait too long.
   
  Good things happen when you're patient complain. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let's hope this pair is in new condition as they should be. So unless something else happens with other tubes or the amp, I'll be able to listen to my 300b amp tonight!
   
  Guess I'll leave early from work today


----------



## john57

I am glad you are not working 14 hours today!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I am glad you are not working 14 hours today!


 
  Yes. Ultra- should spend the next 14 hours listening to his new 300B GlennAmp!
  And how is the weather today in Greece? Getting ready for the summer to be all perfect for you and your guests' arrival and stay?


----------



## Silent One

Ultrainferno!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I am glad you are not working 14 hours today!


 
   
  Me too. Just hooked it up to the Violectric V800 and the LCD-2 using the GZ37 Mullard rectifier and I like it a lot. Too early for full impressions of course but sounds very promising and it looks to be an awesome sounding amplifier. Will try the 596 and RK60 later this evening.
   
  The amp does make some kind of buzzing sound when turned on, but it's not audible through the headphones. Speaker testing will be for friday, I took a day off.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Speaker testing will be for friday, I took a day off.


 
   
  Maybe then I should take the day off too... and follow you in real-time.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes. Ultra- should spend the next 14 hours listening to his new 300B GlennAmp!
> And how is the weather today in Greece? Getting ready for the summer to be all perfect for you and your guests' arrival and stay?


 
    
   Hi Clayton, not bad about 29deg but had some showers last night.
  Trying to sort some music out that I think my guests would like.
  I got my RAL cable out for the HD650 which need braking in.

   
   
  Quote:


ultrainferno said:


> Me too. Just hooked it up to the Violectric V800 and the LCD-2 using the GZ37 Mullard rectifier and I like it a lot. Too early for full impressions of course but sounds very promising and it looks to be an awesome sounding amplifier. Will try the 596 and RK60 later this evening.
> 
> The amp does make some kind of buzzing sound when turned on, but it's not audible through the headphones. Speaker testing will be for friday, I took a day off.


 
   
   
  Congratulations Ultra, so far so good.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Me too. Just hooked it up to the Violectric V800 and the LCD-2 using the GZ37 Mullard rectifier and I like it a lot. Too early for full impressions of course but sounds very promising and it looks to be an awesome sounding amplifier. Will try the 596 and RK60 later this evening.
> 
> The amp does make some kind of buzzing sound when turned on, but it's not audible through the headphones. Speaker testing will be for friday, I took a day off.


 
  Remember that the headphones have to be unplugged for the speakers to work.
  The amp is wired so when you plug in the headphones the speakers shut off.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I've tested the GZ37 vs RK60 vs 596 and for now I like the RK60 most.
  Glenn, thanks for making this great sounding amplifier. It's clean, fast, clear and has a completely black background. Bass is deep and tight and has good body. Detail over all is very good and the mids are nicely detailed and layered. Treble isn't too "hard". Just the way I like my sound.
   
  And it has heaps of power for the LCD-2. Will try the more power hungry HE-500 later but I don't see why it shouldn't sound great. Can't wait to test it with speakers.
   
  Great job! Guys, you really need a 300b amp from Glenn, believe me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Here are some more (bad) phone pictures. For the moment it's my couch setup.


----------



## Silent One

Yes, I'm really liking the real-time updates already.


----------



## longbowbbs

Terrific looking amp Ultra! Congrats!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Me too. Just hooked it up to the Violectric V800 and the LCD-2 using the GZ37 Mullard rectifier and I like it a lot. Too early for full impressions of course but sounds very promising and it looks to be an awesome sounding amplifier. Will try the 596 and RK60 later this evening.
> 
> The amp does make some kind of buzzing sound when turned on, but it's not audible through the headphones. Speaker testing will be for friday, I took a day off.


 
  Taking Friday off? Gee that is my birthday on Flag day. I may see the new Superman movie that day.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm skipping the 300 people staff party to listen to an amp. I'm sure they won't miss me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  My HE-500 sounds the best I've heard it, but the volume dial is up 3/4 with the RK60
   
  Might try my speakers as well today while I'm at it, I'm going to be tired tomorrow
  
  Btw, how awesome does this amp look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ0N1g-kH1M


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote:Originally Posted by *Ultrainferno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


  I've tested the GZ37 vs RK60 vs 596 and for now I like the RK60 most.
  Glenn, thanks for making this great sounding amplifier. It's clean, fast, clear and has a completely black background. Bass is deep and tight and has good body. Detail over all is very good and the mids are nicely detailed and layered. Treble isn't too "hard". Just the way I like my sound.
   
  And it has heaps of power for the LCD-2. Will try the more power hungry HE-500 later but I don't see why it shouldn't sound great. Can't wait to test it with speakers.
   
  Great job! Guys, you really need a 300b amp from Glenn, believe me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Here are some more (bad) phone pictures. For the moment it's my couch setup.
   
*Thanks for the compliment Ultrainferno *


----------



## rosgr63

Brussels was rocking all night long.
   
  Ultra are you still awake?


----------



## Silent One

Well, let's wake him up, shall we?!




   
  Silent One: (Picks up Megaphone; aims it @ webcam for Ultrainferno) _"Are you ready? Three-Two-One WAKE UP!!!"_


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm up already. Sssht


----------



## Silent One

Wonder what your Playlist looked like last night...


----------



## rosgr63

Inferno........


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Wonder what your Playlist looked like last night...


 
   
  Too much to list. Eddie Vedder, Billy Joel, Melody Gardot, Beastie Boys, Bob Marley, The XX, Buena Vista, Foo fighters, The Vaccines, Limp bizkit, Manu Chao, Biohazard, Biffy Clyro, Vaya con dios, Billy Talent and of course Leonard Cohen.
   
  I ended the night by trying the speakers but I wasn't too convinced tbh. Very clear and clean but missing power, bass and body. That's more due to my 4ohm 89 db speakers though. I'll try hooking them up to the 8ohm port tonight, who knows


----------



## Clayton SF

Somehow I injured my left foot really badly. I can't put any pressure on it so I can't walk very far without having to sit down. I also am having trouble sleeping. I am going to stay home from work tomorrow and hope that it gets better. I can't even concentrate on listening to music. I am going to take some aspirin or Advil. Good morning.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Sorry to hear C. Go see a doc if it doesn't get better! Whiskey helps too. Maybe. Or not. But worth a try!
  I tried fooling the gf I was sick last night when going to bed, hoping I could stay home to listen to music today, but she didn't buy it and made me go to work . Damn girlfriends


----------



## Ultrainferno

Oh, btw Stavros. How is life without public TV and Radio?


----------



## rosgr63

Awful, I am missing one my favourite radio stations that plays excellent world wide music and covers all continents.
   
  I don't watch much TV apart from the occasional documentary.
   
  C is it just an excuse to follow Ultra's adventures, or is it for real?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Awful, I am missing one my favourite radio stations that plays excellent world wide music and covers all continents.
> 
> I don't watch much TV apart from the occasional documentary.
> 
> C is it just an excuse to follow Ultra's adventures, or is it for real?


 
  I don't understand ?
   
  Did they shut off all TV & radio stations in Greece if so why?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Somehow I injured my left foot really badly. I can't put any pressure on it so I can't walk very far without having to sit down. I also am having trouble sleeping. I am going to stay home from work tomorrow and hope that it gets better. I can't even concentrate on listening to music. I am going to take some aspirin or Advil. Good morning.


 
   
  Sorry to hear about your misadventure. Hope to learn of your recovery soon.


----------



## Silent One

On Greece --
   
  Was the Government's decision. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The country is trying to meet its debt bailout obligations.


----------



## 2359glenn

What does that have to do with radio and TV


----------



## Ultrainferno

Public radio and tv are paid for by governement money. So they shut it down for now as they want to restructure. There still are commercial radio and tv stations though, don't worry


----------



## Silent One

From the BBC -
   
_"[size=14.166666030883789px]Athens has pledged to cut thousands of public-sector jobs as part of agreements under which it receives billions of euros in rescue loans from the European Union and International Monetary Fund."[/size]_


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Public radio and tv are paid for by governement money. So they shut it down for now as they want to restructure. There still are commercial radio and tv stations though, don't worry


 
  Oh I was thinking all radio and TV stations were shut down.
  Now it makes sense


----------



## rosgr63

The public TV and radio stations have shut down and are currently been restructured.
   
  The private TV and radio stations have not been affected.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Oh I was thinking all radio and TV stations were shut down.
> Now it makes sense


 
  just time for more cookies


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Sorry to hear C. Go see a doc if it doesn't get better! Whiskey helps too. Maybe. Or not. But worth a try!
> I tried fooling the gf I was sick last night when going to bed, hoping I could stay home to listen to music today, but she didn't buy it and made me go to work . Damn girlfriends


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sorry to hear about your misadventure. Hope to learn of your recovery soon.


 
   
  Thanks guys. I hasn't gotten any better. I took about a 3-hour nap today with no improvement. If it is just as bad tomorrow morning, then I'll pay a visit to ER. Grrrr.


----------



## 2359glenn

Here is a tube maybe sombody can use
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6SN7-GT-Tung-Sol-Round-Plate-Variety-Tests-Good-/271217946119?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f25d96e07#ht_786wt_1162


----------



## Silent One

*Mid-'40's Tung-Sol BGRPs - VT-231/6SN7* (one of each but matched pair)
   
  My own pair are on the table should anyone in this space be interested. I am in liquidation-mode until I find employment. A PM would be fine for more details...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks guys. I hasn't gotten any better. I took about a 3-hour nap today with no improvement. If it is just as bad tomorrow morning, then I'll pay a visit to ER. Grrrr.


 
   
  Surely you must have done something "wrong"? Hope you get better soon C!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Ultrainferno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> Surely you must have done something "wrong"? Hope you get better soon C!


 
   
  Surely, I'm not the only one who see's the brilliance of 'Clayton SF' through this troubled period. He recently had the foresight to place his gears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 on wheels!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  There is a crystal ball next to his Mono's...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
   
  I hope you are better soon Clayton!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> There is a crystal ball next to his Mono's...


 
   
  He actually does have a glass ball. true story! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Clayton "The Psychic" SF


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Aha!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Aha!!


 
   
   Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Aha!! and thanks, all! I can feel the love and get-wells all the way over here in SF.

  I am going to ER in about a half hour. I need to catch a cab over there because I don't own a car.
  Also, I have to try to maneuver my aching body and foot down 4 flights of stairs and then back up again after ER.
   
  I can see you all from here in my crystal mono ball!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Aha!! and thanks, all! I can feel the love and get-wells all the way over here in SF.
> 
> I am going to ER in about a half hour. I need to catch a cab over there because I don't own a car.
> Also, I have to try to maneuver my aching body and foot down 4 flights of stairs and then back up again after ER.


 
   
  Keep me posted, Clayton (call/text). Just in case you get into a pinch midday, and need that Rx, carton of milk/juice or other edible fixin's from the goodie store 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to be dropped off.


----------



## Clayton SF

What is worse than sitting in ER with this injured foot of mine?
 Sitting in ER with people who have even more serious injuries than this sprained foot of mine.

 But I'm out of ER.

 My Doctor's Prognosis: sprain in the little toe joint which affects the whole foot.
 Nothing broken.
   
  It hurt a lot because the sprain was located in the joint on the bottom of my foot and I was walking on it.

 My foot is now wearing a diaper.
  The other foot should be wearing headphones.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> My foot is now wearing a diaper.


 
  Better than depends!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Glad you are on the mend!


----------



## Silent One

Mobile tech... gotta love it! I know what you mean about others around you having more serious issues. It keeps us grounded, even if it's on one foot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Got ur PK's prescribed yet?


----------



## wolfetan44

I'm glad your ok, Clayton.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Good thing it wasn't too serious.  Hope you are up and about again soon Clayton!


----------



## Ultrainferno

It's speaker test day! SO where are you?!
   
  So far I tried the Mullard GZ37 only but on the different ohm settings and I have to say it sounds best on the 16ohm setting, best body
  Now, rectifier testing. Good thing Clayton sent me a dozen different ones


----------



## rosgr63

Good to know it was nothing serious Clayton.
   
  Ultra we are waiting for more news.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> It's speaker test day! SO where are you?!
> 
> So far I tried the Mullard GZ37 only but on the different ohm settings and I have to say it sounds best on the 16ohm setting, best body
> Now, rectifier testing. Good thing Clayton sent me a dozen different ones


 
   
  Me? Looking over Tour packages of Reims, France. Then, there's the matter of breakfast... and what will it be. You have the Pirate's Booty with all those rectifiers!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Sorry, my brother in law came over to do his taxes. What a timing!
  Just popped it the bullethole plate Brimar 5Z4G CV1863 and I got a free lightning show with it. Display case it is...
   
  Now listening to the Russian GZ33 by C&K, not too bad for such a small tube. Fav so far is the GZ37 from Mullard, then this C&K GZ33, then Raytheon RK-60, then the (not so?) mighty 596.
   
  Arcturius 5A3, GE 5R4GYA and RCA 5U4GB to come!
   
  Testing setup:


----------



## Silent One

Meetings... back during lunch hour to serve as your witness.


----------



## dminches

*Glenn OTL Amp Nirvana*
   
  I think I have found my favorite tube configuration (for now):
   
  2 - GEC CV2523s
  1 - Mullard GZ37
  1 - Mullard CV181
   
  This combination with the T1s is completely wonderful.  I was using an Amperex ECC33 in the driver position and recently replaced it with the CV181.  That roll brought the sound to a new level.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> *Glenn OTL Amp Nirvana*
> 
> I think I have found my favorite tube configuration (for now):
> 
> ...


 
  Without pics it didn't happen...


----------



## dminches

LOL, Eric.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Ultrainferno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Fav so far is the GZ37 from Mullard, then this C&K GZ33, then Raytheon RK-60, then the (not so?) mighty 596.


 
   
  And again it turns out I love the RCA sound. GZ37 move over, 5U4GB is taking your number 1 spot.
  2 tubes to go today (this is all for speakers btw)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> LOL, Eric.


 
  Nice David! I have never heard the T1's properly amped. So far they have not swayed me. The chain is the thing!


----------



## Clayton SF

I love my Tung-Sol 5U4GB.
  My left foot!


----------



## Ultrainferno

New status: RCA 5U4GB, Arcturius 5Y3GT, GZ37 from Mullard, C&K GZ33, Raytheon RK-60, then the (not so?) mighty 596.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I love my Tung-Sol 5U4GB.
> My left foot!


 
   
  get well soon. better this than a cast


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> New status: RCA 5U4GB, Arcturius 5Y3GT, GZ37 from Mullard, C&K GZ33, Raytheon RK-60, then the (not so?) mighty 596.


 

 You da Rectifier Man! I like the look of the RCA 5U4GB with those rivet holes in the plates.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm looking for some spares already


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I love my Tung-Sol 5U4GB.
> My left foot!


 
   
  Your Left Foot -
   
  Looks nearly as good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





as the Black cladding on the WA5.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> New status: RCA 5U4GB, Arcturius 5Y3GT, GZ37 from Mullard, C&K GZ33, Raytheon RK-60, then the (not so?) mighty 596.


 
   
_The_ (not so?) _Mighty 596? _
   
  Ultra, you've taken your dog 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




to the wrong park! Inside my Woo with the TS-BGRP in the 'drive' position, the difference between that combo and others was night and day. Transferred the two over to the OTL with the TS-5998s in the 'power' slot and the difference was better but the '596' showing was ever so subtle.
   
  That's it! Those are my views and those are the reasons we rock & 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 roll with tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I love my Tung-Sol 5U4GB.
> My left foot!


 
   
  Clayton Is your foot getting better?  Foot pain is one of the worst you can't get around.
  Due to the illness I have I lost 1/2 my left foot and it hearts every day so I know what you are going through.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> New status: RCA 5U4GB, Arcturius 5Y3GT, GZ37 from Mullard, C&K GZ33, Raytheon RK-60, then the (not so?) mighty 596.


 
   
  This amp will really be pushing a 5Y3 to the max. And the life of the 5Y3 will be seriously shortened.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Clayton Is your foot getting better?  Foot pain is one of the worst you can't get around.
> Due to the illness I have I lost 1/2 my left foot and it hearts every day so I know what you are going through.


 
  Yes, my left foot is getting much better now that it is in a shoe cast.
  The worst time is at night in bed when I must sleep with my foot up on a pillow. That is hard to do because I sleep on my side.
  My foot not only hurts but it aches badly. Like my foot has a very bad hangover and headache.
  But it is better now.
  Thank you for asking.
   
  I am now listening to your mono blocks with two Tung-Sol 5U4GB black plates from the 1950s and it sounds really nice! It has clean and clear highs and well-defined lows. It also has very good punch and acoustic guitars shine with this rectifier. It is not as warm as the GZ37 but it holds its own.
   
  You are the master of sound and visuals--you picked the best looking tubes to show off your amps.
   
  Can you see what I mean?:


----------



## Silent One

Yes, we can!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Clayton Is your foot getting better?  Foot pain is one of the worst you can't get around.
> Due to the illness I have I lost 1/2 my left foot and it hearts every day so I know what you are going through.


 
   
  Sir, sorry to hear about your reality. And hope you find a way to adjust to the chronic pain. We keep cheering for a brighter tomorrow... you earned it!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes, my left foot is getting much better now that it is in a shoe cast.
> The worst time is at night in bed when I must sleep with my foot up on a pillow. That is hard to do because I sleep on my side.
> My foot not only hurts but it aches badly. Like my foot has a very bad hangover and headache.
> But it is better now.
> ...


 
   
  I would have liked to use the 281 in Ultrainferno's amp but no room so I used a SS diode.
  Ended up squeezing everything in his amp anyway. If I had to get a larger chassis it
  would have been costly and made the price go up.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote:


silent one said:


> _The_ (not so?) _Mighty 596? _
> 
> Ultra, you've taken your dog
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry to disappoint you SO but at the moment I honestly can't see why you all like the 596 that much. Everyone keeps raving about the 5998 tubes as well, and tbh I do not like their sound in any of my OTL amps. I've all replaced them with american and russian brand 6AS7G types and enjoy the sound much more. Sure the 5998 have more gain and lots of people use the tubes for the LCD-2 to get sufficient power, but in my opinion they should get an amp that suits the LCD-2 better (like a vio 200). And I feel the same with the 596, it's just not my sound. I do see however why you like the 596 if you like the 5998, they have the same sound characteristics imho. My 4 pairs of 5998 are in storage and they'll stay there till they're worth 300 a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




at least.  
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> This amp will really be pushing a 5Y3 to the max. And the life of the 5Y3 will be seriously shortened.


 
   
  Thanks for the info Glenn.
  I have settled for the RCA 5U4GB for speakers and the Raytheon RK-60 for headphone listening.
  This definitely is the best amp I have had for the HE-500, brilliant sound. It's also very very good for the LCD-2 so I'm very happy as this is mainly why I got the amp.
  I do want other speakers however, the amp just can't give them what it needs to get the sound they make on my ss 2x80W amp. don't get me wrong, the sound is really nice, just lacking bass and body compared to the other amp and I've gotten used to that sound for the last 22 years 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway, very happy! Now I just have to find a place to put it. Living room, my office with all the other amps(i'll have to lake room) or the bedroom. Or maybe Clayton's guest room? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Actual living room setup (the misses is starting to complain):
   

   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I would have liked to use the 281 in Ultrainferno's amp but no room so I used a SS diode.
> Ended up squeezing everything in his amp anyway. If I had to get a larger chassis it
> would have been costly and made the price go up.


 
   
  That'll be for the next amp. I'm sure Clayton will want to take back my amp with him after having listened to it


----------



## 2359glenn

I am working on 6336 OTL amps
  This tube walks all over 6AS7s and it's variants.
  Better sound much more power I really don't know why I haven't
  tried this tube sooner.


----------



## Ultrainferno

A NOS 6336A costs $40 here (Cetron/RCA)


----------



## GrindingThud

The 5A heater draw keeps people away. It looks like an interesting tube for a custom build. 



2359glenn said:


> I am working on 6336 OTL amps
> This tube walks all over 6AS7s and it's variants.
> Better sound much more power I really don't know why I haven't
> tried this tube sooner.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> I honestly can't see why you all like the 596 that much. Everyone keeps raving about the 5998 tubes as well, and tbh I do not like their sound in any of my OTL amps. I've all replaced them with american and russian brand 6AS7G types and enjoy the sound much more.
> 
> Anyway, very happy! Now I just have to find a place to put it. Living room, my office with all the other amps(i'll have to lake room) or the bedroom. Or maybe Clayton's guest room?
> ...


 
   
  I really like the RCAs. The 5U4GB and the 6AS7G. At the moment I primarily use the Russian 5U3C (5U4G) and the Tung-Sol 5U4GB in all my amps that use the 5U4G tubes. Right now the 5U4GB is my tube of choice for the music that I am playing on my GlennAmpMonos and the Zu Audio Omens as 16Ω speaker outputs. The Omens are 12Ω and they sound really nice on the monos.
   
  Today I am going to be listening to be female vocals and classical violin. I wonder if Janine Jansen sings 
   
  Oh boy! I get to have Glenn's Amp in my guest room and then be able to take it home. Okay. Maybe not. Too heavy.


----------



## 2359glenn

I have been using Cetron and GE NOS with excellent results 
Had problems with the Tung-Sol though different construction then the
Cetron and GEs
And at A good pice just paid $57 for the matched pair of GEs
This tube hasn't been discovered yet most amps can't handle the current they draw 
So the price is still cheep


----------



## Silent One

And you know us, we like cheep! As well as your finds in obscure places around this hobby.


----------



## Silent One

*Silent notes made audible... and visible.*
   
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Sorry to disappoint you SO but at the moment I honestly can't see why you all like the 596 that much. Everyone keeps raving about the 5998 tubes as well, and tbh I do not like their sound in any of my OTL amps. I've all replaced them with american and russian brand 6AS7G types and enjoy the sound much more. Sure the 5998 have more gain and lots of people use the tubes for the LCD-2 to get sufficient power, but in my opinion they should get an amp that suits the LCD-2 better (like a vio 200). And I feel the same with the 596, it's just not my sound. I do see however why you like the 596 if you like the 5998, they have the same sound characteristics imho. My 4 pairs of 5998 are in storage and they'll stay there till they're worth 300 a pair
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 You are kind. And thoughtful. But, there is no disappointment to worry about. To fully understand my happiness for you, it did not hang with your liking the tube. Rather, that you had a chance to experience the tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




yourself. Audio & music? Food & drink?? Preferences or one's freedom from them can be fascinating.
   
  To better understand my passion behind the United Electronics USAF-596; JAN-596 rectifiers, I tried to show contrast in the previous post. It was my experience with the _WooAudio 6 Special Edition_ that moved me to affectionately dubbed the tube_ "The Mighty 596,"_ a moniker I still stand behind for in my previous system and configuration. Further, you are very fortunate to have many recs to try from... this is good!
   
  The OTL I have was designed for the 3DG4. I merely preferred what it brought over the stock 3DG4 and the BIG Russian. The 3DG4 & '596' differences were subtle. So, in getting all thy understanding why SO would bother with such a tube, one must look to SO's previous system. 
   
  We sure have a lot variables in audio, even before we introduce tubes. However, tubes and amps reminds me a lot of cars and auto-parts. I formerly had a Racing Air-Filter in my 7-Series BMW. Had you heard me raving about it and went out and installed one in your vehicle and drove away less than impressed, this would not surprise me. Although, the opportunity may have been there to improve your airflow, your vehicle's design would have a strong say in the results. So then the question becomes, which one gets poor marks: the filter or its application in your vehicle?
   
  Yes, food for thought...


----------



## john57

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I have been using Cetron and GE NOS with excellent results
> Had problems with the Tung-Sol though different construction then the
> Cetron and GEs
> And at A good price just paid $57 for the matched pair of GEs
> ...


 
  That would be a interesting tube to use Glenn, the tube sometimes called 6AS7 on steroids. I had some users asking me if this tube can be a substitute in an amp that uses 4 6AS7 tubes and I said NO. The tube seems to have different construction and I noticed it has ceramic round spacers in the tube. Does this tube has an advantage over the 300B tube? My guess is that it is easier to find a driver tube that can handle this tube while the 300B tube is picky on the driver tube used.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I am working on 6336 OTL amps
> This tube walks all over 6AS7s and it's variants.
> Better sound much more power I really don't know why I haven't
> tried this tube sooner.


 
   
  I'd love to Beta test this in the wild...


----------



## john57

P.S After giving some thought I think that a 6336 amp could also use any 6AS7/6080 tube as well giving the amp good range of tubes to try.


----------



## Ultrainferno

But not the other way around I suppose?

Btw have you heard the T90? I'm thinking of selling my T70 as I like the T90 I got a lot more. Any thoughts?


----------



## Neogeo333

Glenn, so the cat is out of the bag? Have you already hooked the 6336 amp in working order? Any early impression?


----------



## GrindingThud

6528 looks like a candidate too. I think I know what I'm buying for my next amp....


john57 said:


> P.S After giving some thought I think that a 6336 amp could also use any 6AS7/6080 tube as well giving the amp good range of tubes to try.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> But not the other way around I suppose?
> 
> Btw have you heard the T90? I'm thinking of selling my T70 as I like the T90 I got a lot more. Any thoughts?


 
  I have not heard the T90 maybe at the next RMAF. My feeling if the T90 sounds more like the DT990 which I have tried and returned it may not be my best choice. I did brought the DT860 underdog and it far better than the DT990. It has strong very clear dynamic bass, clear mid-range and bright but smooth highs. I am impressed with the DT860 and still have my T70 with great outside sound insulation. The Beyer's T series are very conformable and more so than my DT860 which seems to use the same headband on some of the Ultrasone models.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> Glenn, so the cat is out of the bag? Have you already hooked the 6336 amp in working order? Any early impression?


 
  I Have been experimenting with the 6336 I haven't really said that I was building anyone a amp.
  And haven't tried it with the BL63 yet.
  The amp will work fine with one GZ37 don't really need two in parallel I have been running a stereo
  6336 amp with one 3DG4 rectifier and works fine.  I will try it with one GZ37 tomorrow morning.
   
  OK the cat is out I am building Neogeo333 a 6336 driven by a BL63 amp with a GZ37 rectifier I guess it don't matter.
   
  So far the 6336 sounds fantastic it destroys the 6AS7 and all it's variants a amp with this tube has enough power
  to blow headphones out if you are not careful. The amp will never distort it just gets louder and louder until the head phone
  starts popping on the bass like a over powered speaker.
  I still have to spec it into various dummy loads and check distortion and power output on equipment.
  The amp will also be able to take 6AS7 tubes if you want.


----------



## Neogeo333

SWEET!!!


----------



## Silent One

@ the 2359glenn|Neogeo333 project...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> @ the 2359glenn|Neogeo333 project...


 
  Currently under production at Area 51....


----------



## Silent One

*"Happy Father's Day!"*


----------



## Clayton SF

Happy Father's Day.


----------



## Silent One

Seems, some fathers could be unavailable for a while...


----------



## Neogeo333

Happy Father's Day!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

First day at the office after having spent 3 days with my gear at home. I miss my amps


----------



## 2359glenn

New Experimental Amplifier
   
  My initial goal was to make a amplifier that would sound good with
  the lowest cost tubes. You can still get 6SN7s for $1.00 so this is the
  amp with all 6SN7s 8 for outputs and one for driver + one 3DG4 rectifier.
  Total Cost for tubeing was $9.00 for 6SN7s and $1.00 for NOS 3DG4 from ESRC.

   
   

   
  This is the same Amplifier Useing 6BL7s as outputs
  More power less gain and better sound to me
  These are $4.00 each
   

   

   
  Same Amplifier with 6AS7s for outputs
  Anyone that has one of my OTLs know what this sounds like
   

   
  To my suprize I tried 6336 for outpute because the power supply
  can handle these current hogs.
  These tubes walk all over 6AS7s power and bass is great
   

   
  This is with a GZ37 rectifier
   

   
  I hadent notised any diference in sound between the
  3DG4 @ $1.00 and the GZ37 @ $100.00 so I recomend
  the 3DG4 but it doesn"t look as good.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looking good Glenn! Now I want a new amp that can take 6AS7G and 6336 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  So even with an adapter an actual 6as7G amp won't be able to take the 6336, right?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *2359glenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> *New Experimental Amplifier*


 
   
   





 Thanks for the wonderful presentation!


----------



## warchild

Quote: 





> To my suprize I tried 6336 for outpute because the power supply
> can handle these current hogs.
> These tubes walk all over 6AS7s power and bass is great


 
   
  I've always liked the 6336. How big is the power supply you're working with?


----------



## 2359glenn

The power / mains transformer has to deliver at least 6.3 volts @ 10 amps for these power hungry tubes.


----------



## warchild

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The power / mains transformer has to deliver at least 6.3 volts @ 10 amps for these power hungry tubes.


 
   
  The voltage is easy, I think but 10 amps is YOW! but apparently doable. Does this generate too much heat or buzz?


----------



## john57

Quote: 





> This is with a GZ37 rectifier
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Glenn,
   
  Holly smokes I did not know much about your experimental amps. Personally I think that using the 6336 tube is a great idea and maybe less chance for the tube to pop, ping or arc over. By the way I still have the NOS " THE CHIEF" 3DG4 tube in its original box in storage. That tube will look good.


----------



## Silent One

My interest is heating up just like a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





tube!


----------



## Neogeo333

from what I've read the trick for a 6336 amp is to make a delay or slow start circuit for it because of the high current. Many have burnt lots of 6336 because it just draw too much when starting up. I hope Glenn already figured that out. I guess I will be stocking up on those 3dg4 if they sound equal to a gz37. Hell of a lot cheaper. One of the best 6336 tubes is the CSF Thomson 6336A different construction than the American version.


----------



## Silent One

I think my Sylvania 3DG4 cost $3... still cheep to me!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> from what I've read the trick for a 6336 amp is to make a delay or slow start circuit for it because of the high current. Many have burnt lots of 6336 because it just draw too much when starting up. I hope Glenn already figured that out. I guess I will be stocking up on those 3dg4 if they sound equal to a gz37. Hell of a lot cheaper. One of the best 6336 tubes is the CSF Thomson 6336A different construction than the American version.


 
  Neogeo,
   
  It has been my experience that the 3DG4 is a very reliable tube. The 3DG4 can become very black inside like carbon but still works just fine. The 3DG4 does have low voltage drop with current as compared to some rectifier tubes.  3DG4 Tube voltage drop = 32V @ 350mA I think that having a good rated transformer is the key to handle the heater start-up current. It is usually the high voltage that could be delayed in some designs that I am aware of.


----------



## GrindingThud

Very very cool. I'm assuming this is an OTL configuration? You're giving me all kinds of crazy ideas for a build (or a buy if I can swing a kitchen pass). 



2359glenn said:


> New Experimental Amplifier
> 
> My initial goal was to make a amplifier that would sound good with
> the lowest cost tubes. You can still get 6SN7s for $1.00 so this is the
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> from what I've read the trick for a 6336 amp is to make a delay or slow start circuit for it because of the high current. Many have burnt lots of 6336 because it just draw too much when starting up. I hope Glenn already figured that out. I guess I will be stocking up on those 3dg4 if they sound equal to a gz37. Hell of a lot cheaper. One of the best 6336 tubes is the CSF Thomson 6336A different construction than the American version.


 
   
  Using a Rectifier tube instead of a SS rectifier is a slow start.
   
  I will make your amp to accept a 3DG4 I wire the rectifier socket so if a 5 volt rectifier
  is plugged in it will get 5 volts and if a 3DG4 is plugged in it will get 3.3 volts.
   
  I tried a bunch of 6336 tubes and found that the Tung-Sol / Chatham tubes are no good.
  had them arc over and blow up. They also have a different construction compared to
  the others. They look similar to a 6AS7 construction.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I tried a bunch of 6336 tubes and found that the Tung-Sol / Chatham tubes are no good.
> had them arc over and blow up. They also have a different construction compared to
> the others. They look similar to a 6AS7 construction.Glenn,


 
   
  Glenn,
   
  I noticed that the 6336 that looks like the 6AS7 is not reliable? There is a 6336A and the 6336B which seems to be more boxy looking as far construction goes.
  I also found out that the 6336 just use metal plates and the 6336A and the 6336B are [size=11pt]zirconium[/size] graphite coated plates.
   
  P.S. I again found out that the 6336A and the 6336B was commonly used in military power supplies for the Navy. I found a tip that using these tubes for the first time after all these years is to recycle the heater a few times like every half hour through the night before applying high voltage to reduce the chance of shorts.


----------



## Neogeo333

My experience was limited with the 6336 tube, when I had my LD MK6+ which was designed to use 6080 tube but saw in a Chinese forum that someone used 6336 in them and nothing blew up, so I took a chance and tried it on the MK6, nothing world changing but music seemed to sound more effortlessly if i remember correctly.  Then someone here mentioned that it could shortened the life of the amp and after 10 hours with them I pulled them out and never used again.  Ohh and four of the those suckers running it gets pretty hot.  Even hotter than my KT-120 tubes. 
   
  There basically two revisions of the 6336 tubes if I remember, please correct me if im wrong.  The original 6336 and then the 6336A and B version.  Many say the the A and B are the same.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Glenn,
> 
> Holly smokes I did not know much about your experimental amps. Personally I think that using the 6336 tube is a great idea and maybe less chance for the tube to pop, ping or arc over. By the way I still have the NOS " THE CHIEF" 3DG4 tube in its original box in storage. That tube will look good.


 

 I have been super jealous of the CHIEF ever since I saw your photo a long time ago.


----------



## Xcalibur255

All the new amp builds look pretty amazing Glenn.
   
  As I recall I talked with you once a long time ago about the 6336 tube.  We thought it might be possible to run it in the current OTL amp but you warned me we would be pushing the transformer pretty hard so I never actually tried it.
   
  The fact that you can use the 6336 in the 8x6SN7 amp is pretty awesome.  A very flexible design with lots of possibilities.  The person who gets that amp is going to be a lucky guy.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If you haven't you should try to get 6 6BL7 tubes that have the flat ladder type plates, I think they sound noticeably better than the 6BL7GTAs with the U shaped plates.  Harder to find though.
   
  Tons of cool stuff, it puts a smile on my face to read about all of this.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> There basically two revisions of the 6336 tubes if I remember, please correct me if im wrong.  The original 6336 and then the 6336A and B version.  Many say the the A and B are the same.


 
  Today was my first day I read up the 6336 tubes in detail. As far I could tell the 6336A and the B version was mostly the same except possibility that the B version which  may have been rated at a higher JAN vibration standard.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice, Glenn, I like it, well done.


----------



## 2359glenn

I dident say but the driver tube can be a 6SN7 or 12SN7 or 25SN7 / 1633 / 13D1
  This allows for more driver tubes to be tried I was useing it with a Ken-Rad 1633 on the 25 volt setting


----------



## Ultrainferno

Glenn, I can't us 3DG4 right?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Glenn, I can't us 3DG4 right?


 
  No your 300B amp only can use 5 volt rectifiers the high voltage from the transformer is to high for the 3DG4
  so I never did the 3 volt hookup for the filament.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Ok, so "only": 5U4/5U4G/5U4GB/596/GZ33/GZ34/GZ37/5AU4/5T4/5Z4G
  Did I forget any?
   
  I need to get me some 5T4, GZ34 and 5AU4
   
  Tips on brands anyone? Mullard metal base for the GZ34 no doubt...


----------



## Neogeo333

2359glenn said:


> I dident say but the driver tube can be a 6SN7 or 12SN7 or 25SN7 / 1633 / 13D1
> This allows for more driver tubes to be tried I was useing it with a Ken-Rad 1633 on the 25 volt setting




This gonna be another tube rolling adventure. Ohh lord, such endless possibility and so little funds at the moment. Can't wait to cone back from disney with the kids.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> This gonna be another tube rolling adventure. Ohh lord, such endless possibility and so little funds at the moment. Can't wait to cone back from disney with the kids.


 
  I wasn't planning on doing this on your amp cause I thought you were good
  with the BL63.
  But I can do this in your amp no problem Just add a voltage quadrupler and a three position switch.


----------



## Neogeo333

please do Glenn. Those lonely RCA and Ken Rad 1633 finally have a new home other than a old box in the closet. I think on the power tube I will keep just the 6336 since they are superior to any 6as7.


----------



## 2359glenn

Dont forget the Brimer 13D1 is another 25SN7


----------



## Neogeo333

the 13d1 sure looks nice but still 40 a pop. might get just a pair to try. Still have a bunch of B36 that haven't use.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Well, there is silence in my listening area for now.  I decided I was sick of fixing cabinets and windows and painting walls and decided to listen to some music last night only to discover my OTL amp somehow got damaged during the move.  It got to ride on the front seat of the car and never got bumped so I'm not sure how this happened, but she's out of commission now.


----------



## Silent One

Brimar 13D1 - A tube with etiquette... _served me well._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Well, there is silence in my listening area for now.  I decided I was sick of fixing cabinets and windows and painting walls and decided to listen to some music last night only to discover my OTL amp somehow got damaged during the move.  It got to ride on the front seat of the car and never got bumped so I'm not sure how this happened, but she's out of commission now.


 
   





 _Say it ain't so..._
   



_ I've a strong feeling a temporary solution sits just on the horizon..._


----------



## Xcalibur255

To frame the situation......  It's not physical damage but a malfunction of some kind.  With the volume on steps 1-5 only the left channel works with the right channel dead.  Once you click the volume pot to step 6 it gets interesting, the left channel goes silent and the right channel comes on in its place....... completely unattenuated (at maximum volume).  I have tried the usual trouble shooting steps such as trying different tubes.
   
  Logically it would seem to be that the volume pot has mysteriously gone bad, but I will wait for the expert himself to weigh in with his thoughts.


----------



## Silent One

Perhaps, a loose connection... whatever this challenge turns out to be, it's nice to see you at once in a new space (living) and this space (visiting).


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> the 13d1 sure looks nice but still 40 a pop. might get just a pair to try. Still have a bunch of B36 that haven't use.


 
  They will work on the 12 volt setting.
  The only person that has a amp that can do this right now with a switch
  is rosgr63.
  I used to make adapters to do 12 volt and 25 volt thbes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> To frame the situation......  It's not physical damage but a malfunction of some kind.  With the volume on steps 1-5 only the left channel works with the right channel dead.  Once you click the volume pot to step 6 it gets interesting, the left channel goes silent and the right channel comes on in its place....... completely unattenuated (at maximum volume).  I have tried the usual trouble shooting steps such as trying different tubes.
> 
> Logically it would seem to be that the volume pot has mysteriously gone bad, but I will wait for the expert himself to weigh in with his thoughts.


 
  Had the volume control got bumped and pushed the shaft back in the switch a little??
  Can You take the bottom off the amp and look at the switch and see if a ground wire came off
  or something??  Then let me know what you see.


----------



## Silent One

And when you drop the bottom, take a pix for Glenn's remote diagnosis...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> And when you drop the bottom, take a pix for Glenn's remote diagnosis...


 
   
  SO means you should film it really  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Seriously though, good luck with getting it fixed. I know how horrible it can be not knowing what is wrong.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> SO means you should film it really
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Film? I'm looking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for a romantic ending. One where, it is a simple fix and the owner falls in love... _all over again._


----------



## Xcalibur255

I will pull the bottom plate and take a look at the pot tonight after work. I'm sure it is probably something simple. Still I'm confused I handled the amp like a newborn baby during the move, as I do with my most prized possessions. Maybe its just a weird coincidence and that valab stepped pot i asked to have put in was going bad anyway.


----------



## Silent One

Nothing surprises me. I've had new units ship DOA right after my quality inspection. Or go bad once in the consumer's hands. Parts parts parts...


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> They will work on the 12 volt setting.
> The only person that has a amp that can do this right now with a switch
> is rosgr63.
> I used to make adapters to do 12 volt and 25 volt thbes.


 
   
  I have used some nice Tung Sol 12SN7 round plates, RCA 12SN7 gray glass, and Hytron 12SN7.
  They all sounded fine.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Glenn, I really can't even get in there to see anything.  Only the front and back cover plates come off, there is no removable bottom plate, and the front plate actively resists being pulled away from the enclosure starting with as little as 1/4" of movement.  I feel like I'll break a solder if I pull on it any harder.
   
  Am I dumb and missing something?  There doesn't seem to be any way to get into it from the bottom, but I can't imagine working on the inside of the amp from just the ends either.
   
  edit:  Oh, I get it now.  The bottom and top are a clam shell divided into two halves.  I'll see what I can get into here in a minute......


----------



## Silent One

Great! I was just fixin' to send a pix of my bottom cover dropped...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Hopefully these will suffice. My phone won't focus if I take the picture any closer.

My untrained eyes do not see anything wrong so far.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Wow, I would literally be tearing my hair out if I had to wire all that in such a cramped space, nevermind the fact that I'm absolutely not capable of doing work of this level anyway.  My respect for what Glenn does just continues to grow and grow......
   
  It's too late to hear anything back tonight of course, I guess we will see what tomorrow has in store for advice.


----------



## Silent One

Such intricate detailed work could prove very relaxing... placing one in a zone. I too, have appreciation for his work. Think about it, he works full-time, makes time for his mate, then makes time for us and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




STILL gets in the studio and gets it done!


----------



## Silent One

Was going to be movie-nite, tonight. Except... I forgot
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to rent a DVD. May stream something late-nite. Soooo what to do? I know, let's look at tubes, shall we?!


----------



## Xcalibur255

That is the coolest looking box in the history of boxes.  Does the tube have GE, Sylvania or RCA markings on it SO?


----------



## Silent One

The tube belongs to john57... no idea.


----------



## Silent One

Check out this article regarding re-branders:
   
http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Check out this article regarding re-branders:
> 
> http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/


 
   
  Thanks SO. It's the second post on the blog. Interesting read, please do share if you find other interesting articles


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Hopefully these will suffice. My phone won't focus if I take the picture any closer.
> 
> My untrained eyes do not see anything wrong so far.


 
  Make sure that both grounds are good The ground is the little loop with the Green with yellow stripe wire connected to it.
  I cut this off the pot and soldered it on the stepped attenuator


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'll check when I make it back home.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I see quite a few connections using that green and yellow striped wire, especially along that metal strap with the multiple connections on it.  One of those connections has no visible solder and that wire moves loosely.  I take it this is the problem?  It's a pretty cramped place to get an iron into, but I will attempt to get some solder on that connection myself.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Forgot to mention, this bad solder point is at the back of the amp by the cathode selector switch, not near the volume pot.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I decided not to try it.  I have no idea if those capacitors have charge in them, and it might be dangerous.  I'm going to wait until I get further instructions.


----------



## Silent One

_Wise..._


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I decided not to try it.  I have no idea if those capacitors have charge in them, and it might be dangerous.  I'm going to wait until I get further instructions.


 
  You can solder it there will be no charge on the capacitors at this time.
  There is a 100K ohm bleeder resistor in there to discharge the filter capacitors so everything
  will be discharged 10 min after turning the amp off.


----------



## Xcalibur255

*sigh*  I can't get any solder to adhere to my iron.  Need to go pick up some sandpaper and clean the tip first.


----------



## Silent One

So, do you in fact have a loose connection?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Well I don't get it, but I can't do it.  I've tried over and over, but the solder won't form a joint.  No matter what I do the wire is still loose.
   
  People say soldering is so "easy" but this is maddening.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> So, do you in fact have a loose connection?


 
  No question of that.  I don't even know if this was what caused the problem, but this connection has no solder on it at all.


----------



## 2359glenn

I think you need a higher wattage soldering iron  like 35 to 40 watts.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I was able to solder the coupling caps in the Yaqin alright.  It seems like I can't get the heat to transfer, but I keep touching things I don't intend to with the iron too so I'm afraid I may have no choice but to mail it to you for repairs.
   
  I have a friend who is pretty handy with a soldering iron, I'll ask him if he wants to give it a try before completely giving up.
   
  I hate to mail it again, every time it makes a trip through the mail it gets shaken up and we run the risk of another joint weakening, but I really don't know what else to do about it now.
   
  It's nobody's fault, just bad luck, but I'm can't help but feel a little bummed.  I own two tube amps and both of them are broken.


----------



## c0937753

Dear Glenn:
   
  I want buy a one pair of 6SN7->6DE7 Teflon tube adapters , my headphone amplifier is Woo Audio WA6-SE.
   
  Please kindly quote for us for your best with Taiwan.
   
   Best Regraed
  
  David Chen


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I was able to solder the coupling caps in the Yaqin alright.  It seems like I can't get the heat to transfer, but I keep touching things I don't intend to with the iron too so I'm afraid I may have no choice but to mail it to you for repairs.
> 
> I have a friend who is pretty handy with a soldering iron, I'll ask him if he wants to give it a try before completely giving up.
> 
> ...


 
  It is probably best if you send it to me. I will fix it for free no mater what is wrong just shipping.
  If you are going to send it send it on Monday Priority or Waite till I get back from Athens.
  It is best if you Waite till I come back I am leaving on Friday and that don't give much time for it
  to get here.


----------



## rosgr63

Xcalibur, don't forget the soldering paste.
   
  Get a damp sponge and clean the soldering iron tip when it's hot.


----------



## c0937753

Dear Glenn:

 Regular old Bakelite plastic tube adapters is ok. I want buy the one pair.
   
  Please kindly quote for us for your best with Taiwan.
   
 Best Regraed
  
 David Chen


----------



## Xcalibur255

rosgr63 said:


> Xcalibur, don't forget the soldering paste.
> 
> Get a damp sponge and clean the soldering iron tip when it's hot.




I did sand my tip thinking that could be the problem. It repulses solder like oil to water but I don't know why since the tip is clean.

Also a quick note to everybody: I hope the thread isn't quiet because of me. Don't let my little issue disrupt normal conversation. The only reason I posted here and not privately is because I like to hear troubleshooting hints and feedback from everybody.


----------



## GrindingThud

Are you using flux core solder?


xcalibur255 said:


> I did sand my tip thinking that could be the problem. It repulses solder like oil to water but I don't know why since the tip is clean.
> 
> Also a quick note to everybody: I hope the thread isn't quiet because of me. Don't let my little issue disrupt normal conversation. The only reason I posted here and not privately is because I like to hear troubleshooting hints and feedback from everybody.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Its cardas quad eutectic with silver content. I'm pretty sure it is flux core.


----------



## GrindingThud

Yep, it is. It should coat the iron tip like melted butter... With the iron hot, try cleaning the tip with a wet cloth. 


xcalibur255 said:


> Its cardas quad eutectic with silver content. I'm pretty sure it is flux core.


----------



## telecaster

It's basic stuff, you need to put solder on the tip first. If your tip dont melt solder then it's burnt or rotten. Don't know the English word for it, but in french the tip need to be "étamée"
  If you cant, then buy another soldering tip for you iron. And yes use flux to solder to bigger metal piece and scratch the part on that metal piece to help get a grip for the solder. Your solder or any cheap solder have flux in them and work the same. What you need is liquid flux that you can apply to the metal part it will work (if you have sorted your burnt tip beforehand).


----------



## Xcalibur255

grindingthud said:


> Yep, it is. It should coat the iron tip like melted butter... With the iron hot, try cleaning the tip with a wet cloth.




I did do that, and the iron melts the solder just fine, almost instantly. It just won't coat the tip for some reason so I cannot "tin" the tip properly. Didn't have this problem last time I used it so I thought cleaning the tip would help but it didn't.


----------



## GrindingThud

Weird....and I'm sure horribly frustrating.  If its not sticking, there might be a contaminant on the tip or a spot in the solder without rosin. Clean again and maybe try a section of solder a few inches deeper on the roll? I'm out of ideas after that.


xcalibur255 said:


> I did do that, and the iron melts the solder just fine, almost instantly. It just won't coat the tip for some reason so I cannot "tin" the tip properly. Didn't have this problem last time I used it so I thought cleaning the tip would help but it didn't.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I did sand my tip thinking that could be the problem. It repulses solder like oil to water but I don't know why since the tip is clean.
> 
> Also a quick note to everybody: I hope the thread isn't quiet because of me. Don't let my little issue disrupt normal conversation. The only reason I posted here and not privately is because I like to hear troubleshooting hints and feedback from everybody.


 
   
  This thread was setup to
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 encourage conversation and posts just like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




yours.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I did do that, and the iron melts the solder just fine, almost instantly. It just won't coat the tip for some reason so I cannot "tin" the tip properly. Didn't have this problem last time I used it so I thought cleaning the tip would help but it didn't.


 
  Just buy another cheep iron at Radio Shack that would be better then screwing around with that one.
  and buy one at least 30 watts if you are soldering on that ground.


----------



## john57

I have two soldering irons plus a solder gun from the auto parts store for $10. I still have the soldering iron that I used in my projects as a kid that is still in good shape.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The friend who was going to help me got his vehicle trashed badly by the massive hail storm that went through here just now.  I will have to revisit this once the bigger fish are fried.


----------



## Silent One

Sorry about the weather conditions - I had 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




NO idea y'all were dealing with challenges that way.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sorry about the weather conditions - I had
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 After hearing from some people I guess my part of town got off easy.  Literally 5 minutes after I left Walmart it got hammered by this hail storm.  The storm broke all 195 skylights in the building and shattered the windshields of most of the cars in the parking lot.  They had hail and flying plastic shards all over inside the building.
   
  Crazy stuff.


----------



## rosgr63

Sounds very scary.........


----------



## Silent One

And it's almost July... now that's crazy!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just got a new RCA 5U4GB and a CV1863 5ZVG for my Glenn amp.
   
  Have a great holiday Glenn, you've deserved it. Have fun!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> *Have a great holiday Glenn, you've deserved it. Have fun!*


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I just got a new RCA 5U4GB and a CV1863 5ZVG for my Glenn amp.
> 
> Have a great holiday Glenn, you've deserved it. Have fun!


 
  Thank you Ultrainferno
  I leave on Friday and land in Athens at 9:15am Saturday.
  Can't Waite !!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Thank you Ultrainferno
> I leave on Friday and land in Athens at 9:15am Saturday.
> Can't Waite !!!!!!!!!!!!


 

 I wish you, L. and your host in Athens a most wonderful time together! We'll be counting chocolate eggs until your return. (More like wishing we could eat them while you're gone.)


----------



## Neogeo333

Hope you have a great time there Glenn and wish you a safe trip.


----------



## rosgr63

The countdown has started!


----------



## longbowbbs

Glenn and Stavros, have a great time!


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Eric!
   
  We'll try to stay out of trouble!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380665485499?
   
  Group buy anyone?


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/380665485499?
> 
> Group buy anyone?


 
  How much would I need to chip in?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I was more Joking to be honest. Price will be ok, I just don't need over 30 5U4GB tubes 
  But why not if more people are interested


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I was more Joking to be honest. Price will be ok, I just don't need over 30 5U4GB tubes
> But why not if more people are interested


 
  Aw haha.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I was more Joking to be honest. Price will be ok, I just don't need over 30 5U4GB tubes
> But why not if more people are interested


 

 You want 30 more 5U4GBs? I'll bring you 28 more when I see you in August


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You want 30 more 5U4GBs? I'll bring you 28 more when I see you in August


 
   
  Don't forget to bring some clothes


----------



## rosgr63

A pair of shorts and a T-Shirt is all you need Clayton!!!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

And a floatation device like a inner tube.


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And a floatation device like a inner tube.


 
  One that isn't inflated wouldn't take up too much space away from all the audio gear you're packing!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





daigo said:


> One that isn't inflated wouldn't take up too much space away from all the audio gear you're packing!


 
   
  Just some tubes, a phono stage and Liquid Fire.
  I kid I kid. don't blame me for trying Clayton


----------



## rosgr63

Liquid Fire?
   
  The drink or the amp?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Both I hope


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Just some tubes, a phono stage and Liquid Fire.
> I kid I kid. don't blame me for trying Clayton


 
  You know, the Liquid Fire is pretty light. I mean quite light.
  Maybe if I pack it well and wrap it in the inner tube I can get it past customs.
  and I kid you not. Let me think about it... But you have to return it in a year.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I can try out your 2359glenn amp too


----------



## Ultrainferno

Too complicated shipping things back, but thanks for offering


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Too complicated shipping things back, but thanks for offering


 

 Well then I will just have to move to Amsterdam and then ride the Thalys every so often to visit on weekends! I can't imagine shipping all of my amps to North Holland, though.


----------



## rosgr63

Where there is a will there is a way.
   
  We can help organise packing, shipping and clearance if you so decide.
   
  The destination address might be wrong, but they'll still end up in Europe!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Where there is a will there is a way.
> 
> We can help organise packing, shipping and clearance if you so decide.
> 
> The destination address might be wrong, but they'll still end up in Europe!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
   
  50/50 split we agreed upon, right?


----------



## rosgr63

Sure............... I am not greedy.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Too complicated shipping things back, but thanks for offering


 
  You mean too expensive. Shipping is easy if you have the original packing materials.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton be careful, me and Ultra have evil plans..........


----------



## 2359glenn

No need to worry Clayton I will just build you new amplifiers.
   
  If I have to replace all the amplifiers you have that will keep me occupied for a long while


----------



## Silent One

I love a really good collaboration.


----------



## Ultrainferno

See, Stavros and me just keep the economy going, that's all.
  Have a good flight an holiday Glenn! Welcome to Europe.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> No need to worry Clayton I will just build you new amplifiers.
> If I have to replace all the amplifiers you have that will keep me occupied for a long while


 

 Thanks, Glenn. You have offered me a very agreeable solution to a complicated predicament. MORE AMPS BY GLENN!
   
  BTW, I was listening to your mono blocks this morning and noticed how crisp and clean the sound is even at low volume (step 3). Even the bass comes through very well.


----------



## 2359glenn

I have been to Europe Germany several times used to work for a German company.
  This Is the first time to Greece.
  My GF never flown before and she is a mess today
  she worried herself into getting hives on her arms.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks, Glenn. You have offered me a very agreeable solution to a complicated predicament. MORE AMPS BY GLENN!
> 
> BTW, I was listening to your mono blocks this morning and noticed how crisp and clean the sound is even at low volume (step 3). Even the bass comes through very well.


 
  Clayton you can't let these Europeans bully you and take all your amps.
  No worry I can make a endless supply of amps.
   
  Allot of the SQ is how well the C3g drives the 300B I do like that tube.


----------



## rosgr63

As long as you are awake and don't fall asleep L will be fine!!!!!!!!!!
   
  The driver is very important, and 300B's shine with a good driver.


----------



## 2359glenn

I always fall asleep In planes L already said that I would be in trouble if I fall asleep


----------



## Silent One

I'll say. I'm driving my way
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 towards a 300B amp this autumn!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I always fall asleep In planes L already said that I would be in trouble if I fall asleep


 
  She's right, you better stay awake.
   
  I am siding with L on this better stay awake and think amp and drivers and nice DHT's for the next project!!!!!!!!!
   
  But whatever happens don't think red.


----------



## 2359glenn

Nice Stavros side with L again !!!!!!!!!!!
   
  I suppose You want a 300B or a nice PX4 headphone amp Driven by a C3g.


----------



## rosgr63

I am still on L's side on this.
   
  I won't think amp for now, I'll be good!
   
  Only tubes.........


----------



## 2359glenn

Stavros you might have a amp in the mail already !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  Who is Waring the devil Horn's now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  And I an thinking of nothing red by the way.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn I hope you haven't been so extremely bad once again!!!!!!!!!
   
  I have done nothing to deserve any of this...................I am just your naughty friend who is dearly looking forward meeting you and L.
   
  I feel so excited like a young boy in his first date.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn I hope you haven't been so extremely bad once again!!!!!!!!!
> I have done nothing to deserve any of this...................I am just your naughty friend who is dearly looking forward meeting you and L.
> I feel so excited like a young boy in his first date.


 
  And y'all need to be chaperoned--seriously--and a curfew set for midnight.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn I hope you haven't been so extremely bad once again!!!!!!!!!


 
  Hehe, you'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I have been to Europe Germany several times used to work for a German company.
> This Is the first time to Greece.
> My GF never flown before and she is a mess today
> she worried herself into getting hives on her arms.


 
  My wife did that flying to New Zealand. I thought she would never get on the plane!


----------



## Headampbro

Glenn, wishing you have a great trip holiday in Greece!!!


----------



## CEE TEE

I am late to the congratulating party but that means I get to bump these shots!  
   
*So clean on the front panel (like those pots), I love the duotone.  *Dang, this amp is NICE.  _Great shots..._
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


>


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks! I'm really enjoying it with the Hifiman HE-500. Fav rectifier so far is the RCA 5U4GB but a new Brimar 5Z4G just arrived also (but I'll have to nailpolish the base tight again first)


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn sent me the most precious gift I ever got, just arrived this afternoon on special delivery as it's too heavy to cary.
   
  A unique event, I wil wait for the master himself to open it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  L I can feel/sense/smell some cookies are also included, I can't wait, thank you so much.
   
  I am lost for words, if that's not the best form of generosity and friendship what is?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn sent me the most precious gift I ever got, just arrived this afternoon on special delivery as it's too heavy to cary.
> 
> A unique event, I wil wait for the master himself to open it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
  ...and he doesn't open it....What a tease!


----------



## Clayton SF

Obviously, that package was mislabeled! I think that it was supposed to go to San Francisco 
Ultra- and I were forced to keep this a secret.


----------



## rosgr63

Eric, the creators G&L will open it, I'll just wait.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Eric, the creators G&L will open it, I'll just wait.


 
  That level of patience is inhuman!!


----------



## dminches

when do the Yanks arrive?


----------



## Blackmore

I knew you are bad, but that kind?! This is killing
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Eric, the creators G&L will open it, I'll just wait.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Obviously, that package was mislabeled! I think that it was supposed to go to San Francisco
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, we had to be quiet! But we know what it is!!
   
  On the bad news side: I received the new Brimar 5ZVG CV1863, plugged it in -> New lightning show and my Glenn amp is dead.
  I checked the fuse and it's burned, so now I'm looking for a new fuse and hope that's the only thing that got damaged.
   
  My amp does not like the 5Z4G!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  See....You NEED a USAF-596!


----------



## Ultrainferno

LOL. I have it but I'm not a fan 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 yet.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> On the bad news side: I received the new Brimar 5ZVG CV1863, plugged it in -> New lightning show and my Glenn amp is dead.
> I checked the fuse and it's burned, so now I'm looking for a new fuse and hope that's the only thing that got damaged.
> 
> My amp does not like the 5Z4G!


 
   
  I too, hope it's just the fuse. And no underlying problem taking out the next one...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Eric, the creators G&L will open it, I'll just wait.


 
   
  So....... my congrats is on hold sorta?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Yeah, we had to be quiet! But we know what it is!!


 
  We know what it is. We know what it is. Hehehe.
  And you deserve every bit of the love that went into putting it together.


----------



## Ultrainferno

For the tech kids: Can I replace a 3.15A fuse with a 4A one or shouldn't I?
Thanks guys!


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton and Ultra, you're both bad
  I thought I was the only one but......
   
  Ultra don't I'll check with Glenn tomorrow, you'll also need the dimensions and if it's fast or slow blow.
   
  David they arrive tomorrow morning.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton and Ultra, you're both bad
> I thought I was the only one but......
> 
> Ultra don't I'll check with Glenn tomorrow, you'll also need the dimensions and if it's fast or slow blow.
> ...


 
   
  Thanks Stavros, I bought a new fuse rated 4A and it has the same dimensions, don't know if it slow or fast burn though. I'll wait.
  Back to the V200, X-Amp, WA2, 339, Crack it is.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton and Ultra, you're both bad
> I thought I was the only one but......


 

 You and Glenn are the Original Bad, but
  just you wait until Ultra and I get together, we'll be worse!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You and Glenn are the Original Bad, but
> just you wait until Ultra and I get together, we'll be worse!


 
   
  Well, S. can be quite the slave driver so we'll have to be careful...


----------



## rosgr63

I think we'll need a lion tamer not a chaperone.......
   
  Any volunteers????????
   
  BTW L loved the first flight and she even fell asleep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I think we'll need a lion tamer not a chaperone.......
> Any volunteers????????
> BTW L loved the first flight and she even fell asleep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  How long was the flight?
  My flight to Amsterdam from San Francisco is almost 11 hours. Not bad. But I return via Paris and that flight will be almost 12 hours. Probably a slower plane


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Jetstream....


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thanks Stavros, I bought a new fuse rated 4A and it has the same dimensions, don't know if it slow or fast burn though. I'll wait.
> Back to the V200, X-Amp, WA2, 339, Crack it is.


 
   
  I believe slow blow is fine.  I blew the fuse in my amp too and I'm pretty sure that was a slow blow fuse.
   
  Has the rectifier in question been tested for shorts?  It may be a bad tube.


----------



## CEE TEE

For some reason, I want to see pictures of someone opening the box with an excited & crazy look on their face like a kid opening the "big" gift on Christmas morning...


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How long was the flight?
> My flight to Amsterdam from San Francisco is almost 11 hours. Not bad. But I return via Paris and that flight will be almost 12 hours. Probably a slower plane


 
   
  11 hours but they have over an hour delay.
   
  Quote: 





cee tee said:


> For some reason, I want to see pictures of someone opening the box with an excited & crazy look on their face like a kid opening the "big" gift on Christmas morning...


 
   
  I'll take photos........this is very exciting!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Enjoy the moment my friend, you deserve it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Just got a new fuse. Original was a T 3.15A L 250V, new one is a T 3.15A 250D but I tried it and it seems to work fine. I've revived the 2359Glenn 300b Integrated Amp!
   
  I'll be buying a Tube Tester next. Stavros promised to help me find a good one for the tubes I need but welcome to any tips


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Enjoy the moment my friend, you deserve it.


 
   
  I don't really!
  I've just been very lucky since I joined Head-Fi meeting so many nice people like you X.
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Just got a new fuse. Original was a T 3.15A L 250V, new one is a T 3.15A 250D but I tried it and it seems to work fine. I've revived the 2359Glenn 300b Integrated Amp!
> 
> I'll be buying a Tube Tester next. Stavros promised to help me find a good one for the tubes I need but welcome to any tips


 
   
  Ultra, that's great, sorry I couldn't be of any help.
   
  I've learned the hard way about the value of testers.
  I spent a lot of time and had plenty lessons from Bob Putnak of tubnesound.com who is one of the best when it comes to testers.
   
  I am ready whenever you decide to look into the subject.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Just got a new fuse. Original was a T 3.15A L 250V, new one is a T 3.15A 250D but I tried it and it seems to work fine. I've revived the 2359Glenn 300b Integrated Amp!


 
   
  And there was much rejoicing!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> And there was much rejoicing!


 
   
  x2! No one wants to see a fallen comrade.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I've learned the hard way about the value of testers.  I spent a lot of time and had plenty lessons from Bob Putnak of tubnesound.com who is one of the best when it comes to testers.


 
  I own 4 tube testers that I bought from Bob Putnak. He's a good friend of mine. We also share cooking recipes (believe it or not). They all have been calibrated and one of them actually has a rectifier in it. It is a tube tube tester!!!
   
  Here are the Hickok Model 799, and the PACO Model 10-12.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That second one looks familiar....


----------



## john57

*Ultrainferno*
   
  That is great! you have the amp working again! The fuse did it job and protect the rest of the amp. I also have a Precision tube tester much like the photo. enjoy


----------



## Ultrainferno

What budget are we looking at for a tube tester?


----------



## dminches

For under $500 you can get a tester from Bob and that'll be all you ever need.


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's what I had in mind. Better shoot stavros and Clayton an email


----------



## dminches

I just got a Jackson 646 from him which I really like.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Any info/sites I should read up on? Are there any sellers in the EU (would save up on customs/sending costs)


----------



## dminches

www.tubesound.com


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks!
   
  I'll put up a list of tube types I have and can use in my amps and then start from there.
  AM I correct in saying most tube testers just test for leaks/emissions and good/bad without putting values on it?


----------



## dminches

Tube testers are almost as varied as the tubes themselves.  If you talk to bob and tell him what you are looking to accomplish he will point you in the right direction. He is very opinionated but he has the right to be since he knows so much.  I have never been dissatisfied with any purchase from bob.


----------



## 2359glenn

Arrived Safely to a worm welcome.
  Stavros is the best of best friend he is the greatest
  I have some pictures from the balcony of the motel he found
  for us right on the Mediterranean sea.


----------



## dminches

Glenn, glad you and your g/f made it there safely.  Now, can we open the box?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looks good! Have fun Glenn!
  and yes, the box!!


----------



## modca

Sorry to chime in like this for my first post ever on Head-fi. I have been reading this thread from the beginning so many times that uou all look to me like friends.
  It's very nice the way you all care for each other and for Glenn in particular.
  You are a great family
  To Glenn I can only say: get as much fun and relaxation as uou can in Greece, Stavros look like a real friend
   
  p.s. Great pictures
  p.p.s. where are the pictures of Stavros amp??
   
  Marco


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Arrived Safely to a worm welcome.
> Stavros is the best of best friend he is the greatest
> I have some pictures from the balcony of the motel he found
> for us right on the Mediterranean sea.


 
   
  Great to hear of your safe journey. Give rosgr63 a shout from all of us! Surprisingly, my blood pressure improved 20 points just by looking at the Mediterranean. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Maybe I need a Vacay...


----------



## Silent One

Welcome to our thread, Marco!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great to hear of your safe journey. Give rosgr63 a shout from all of us! Surprisingly, my blood pressure improved 20 points just by looking at the Mediterranean.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No you need the WA5, remember?


----------



## modca

Thank you very much


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> No you need the WA5, remember?


 
   
  Having 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




money in order to get the WA5 in the first place, either one of these two works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




for me!


----------



## Silent One

('Silent One' quickly looks up Time Zone for Greece... in reference to California... seeks to determine Grand Box Opening ceremony)


----------



## modca

Is it Christmas time once again?


----------



## Silent One

I understand it's a sneak preview of what's to come this holiday season. Well... that's what I heard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




on the internet.


----------



## modca

ok i'll be silent and all ears
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ninja style


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  LMAO!!!  Yes....A WA5...Fully maxed out!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Welcome aboard Marco!


----------



## Silent One

Guess, I'm going to need a job then. Runnin' out of things to sell...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Does anyone know where/what the Raytheon "F6" date code stands for? Can't seem to find it on the www.
  Thanks!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





dminches said:


> www.tubesound.com


 
   
  I noticed that Bob has the * Sencore TC162 *for sale. He rarely has a Sencore for sale during the time I know him.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Does anyone know where/what the Raytheon "F6" date code stands for? Can't seem to find it on the www.
> Thanks!


 
   
  Which Ray do you have and is there any other info printed?


----------



## modca

Thank you very much for all your friendliness
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Hope to stay with you for a very loooong time


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Which Ray do you have and is there any other info printed?


 
   
  RK60 -1641 printed on the glass
  Only "F6" in red on the base...
   
  Oh the mystery


----------



## Skylab

I believe that means June 1948 (F=1948, 6= June)


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I believe that means June 1948 (F=1948, 6= June)


 
   
  thanks Rob, that's based on the RCA codes then, right?
  That would make it the oldest tube in my collection!


----------



## Skylab

It is indeed based on the RCA codes, but RCA wasn't the only company to use them IIRC, and it would be the right period. The RK60 was introduced in 1948, if my information is correct (which of course when we are talking about 75 year old vacuum tubes is a bit of a leap of faith  )


----------



## Headampbro

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Glenn, glad you and your g/f made it there safely.  Now, can we open the box?


 
   
  Haha, I am waiting to see inside the box as well!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I believe that means June 1948 (F=1948, 6= June)


 
   
  Agree - a tube seller got back to me earlier with the same info except he could only state 1940s but June.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I noticed that Bob has the * Sencore TC162 *for sale. He rarely has a Sencore for sale during the time I know him.


 
  I'm tempted to buy it too, but ideally I'd want a single tester to cover all the tube types I have and the TC162 does not have a UX4 socket for testing 45/2A3 tubes.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm tempted to buy it too, but ideally I'd want a single tester to cover all the tube types I have and the TC162 does not have a UX4 socket for testing 45/2A3 tubes.


 
  I understand, that's why I also have the Precision 620 tube tester from the Navy with all the adapters included and can test the very old tubes and the modern tubes as well. The Precision 620 I have which has all the updates can test both sides of the 3DG4 tube where the Sencore can not as a example. My Precision 620 version has one of the widest range of tubes that can be tested. I have a special updated tube chart for this tester and it was very easy to work on and everything works on it and I just paid $91 for it. The JACKSON 658-A which I had on the other hand was very difficult to work on and 2/3 of the substandard parts has been replaced with better parts but never quite work perfectly. The Jackson can test tubes at a higher voltage levels and more likely to catch tubes that could arc over. I wanted to get the Heathkit TT-1 but could not find one in the condition and price that I was willing to pay. Here is a youtube on restoring the Heathkit TT-1 which shows some of the work involved to restore this tube tester. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJa9nJHttSc
  I ended up keeping the Sencore TC28 and the Precision 620. Both required some restorative work and the Sencore was way off in calibration but I successfully restore my Sencore to factory specs.


----------



## 2359glenn

The only thing with tube testers is they don't run the tubes like they are run in the amp.
   
  No tube tester I know of is going to supply the 800 volts plate to plate that is supplied to the rectifier tube in ultras amp.
   
  So it can still test good and blow up in the amp this goes for output tubes as well.


----------



## modca

Hi Glenn are you having fun in Greece? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  You were supposed to only relax but I see that tubes and amps are always on your mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Or maybe you are missing your friends


----------



## 2359glenn

Party at Stavros house today maybe he will open the box.
   
  I am only interested in the cookies. But it don't really matter Stavros will have
   
  plenty of great food I am sure. I will gain 20lbs while here.   This is heven here !!!!!


----------



## modca

Saw the pictures and that is just plain awesome
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Please eat the cookies and open THAT box
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  We are dying to know what Glenn Studio has crafted this time......summer trend


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The only thing with tube testers is they don't run the tubes like they are run in the amp.
> 
> No tube tester I know of is going to supply the 800 volts plate to plate that is supplied to the rectifier tube in ultras amp.
> 
> So it can still test good and blow up in the amp this goes for output tubes as well.


 
   
  800V!! Wowzers!
   
  Most of my tubes are for the OTL amps however, and I really want a tube tester 
  Keep the nice pics from Greece coming Glenn, enjoy. I'm off to the street bbq, right in front of my door!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Party at Stavros house today maybe he will open the box.
> 
> I am only interested in the cookies. But it don't really matter Stavros will have
> 
> plenty of great food I am sure. I will gain 20lbs while here.   This is heven here !!!!!


 
  My Wife and I loved Greece! Of course we were just tourists, you get to be with good friends too. What a bonus!


----------



## rosgr63

Hello all.
   
  Meeting Glenn and L has been one of the best things that ever happened to me.
   
  We opened the box this afternoon, and It was a fantastic and emotional occasion for me.
  One of the best amps I have seen that I never thought it was possible to build when we were talking about it with Glenn some time ago.
   

  Glenn's is a genius and proved me very wrong!!!!! 
   
  Lots of tubes to go with it, some types I've never seen or heard of before were included as well as L's cookies and strawberry jam.
   
  L told everybody that there was cookies and jam so now I have to be nice and share with the rest of the family................so much for been greedy and selfish.
   
  Glenn is so cool, L is lots of fun, and both are so easy to get on with.
  Family and friends were very happy meeting them both, and we already started planning for next year.


----------



## dminches

Sounds great, Stavros.  How about posting a picture of the 3 of you?  That would be very cool.  The pictures of the amp can wait until later.


----------



## longbowbbs

We are all there with you guys in spirit! Have a wonderful time and post those pics when you can.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Sounds great, Stavros.  How about posting a picture of the 3 of you?  That would be very cool.  The pictures of the amp can wait until later.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Hello all.
> 
> Meeting Glenn and L has been one of the best things that ever happened to me.
> 
> ...


 
  What kind of amp did you request from him?(like speaker amp, headphone amp, and did you request a type of sounds signature?) stuff like that


----------



## Silent One




----------



## 2359glenn

Hello all
   
  This trip has turned into one of the best experiences of my life.
  We are being treated like family.
  To be seated at Stavros kitchen table and fed traditional Greek food
  is special to L and me.
  Today we go to the market then come back and have more Greek food
  some of witch will be made by his mother.
  This is going to be another fantastic day high in calories of coarse.


----------



## Silent One

Trust me, we're all sharing in you & L's joy, Glenn. Your journey is a special one of new memories and new people.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Hello all
> 
> This trip has turned into one of the best experiences of my life.
> We are being treated like family.
> ...


 





 Sounds amazing!!


----------



## Headampbro

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Sounds amazing!!


 
  NicE!!!!!


----------



## modca

It's great to know you are having so much fun with Stavros
A beautiful place, good food and real friends....what else can you ask for...oh yes some pictures of you and the amp


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looks like they're having a lot of fun!


----------



## modca

Ain't we happy about it?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  As they say: no news good news!!!
   
  I think Glenn will come back full of energy and ready to create new stuff.....maybe he is creating a Tzatziki amp


----------



## rosgr63

Happy 4th of July,
   
  Glenn and I just tested the new amp.
   
  Sounds absolutely fantastic, running on 6pcs 6BL7's and one 1633.
   
  And I thought the 300B's were the best.................I've lots to learn still from the master!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Happy 4th of July,
> 
> Glenn and I just tested the new amp.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Pics or it didn't happen


----------



## modca

Thank you very much
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  very happy you like the amp, I am pretty noob about tube amps and valves that I am pretty eager to hear one of his amps, unfortunately that won't happen for a loong time but I think waiting will pay back
   
  Have a lot of fun you two and.....saluti dall'Italia


----------



## longbowbbs

Congrats Stavros!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  However....You know the rules....Pictures or it did not happen...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Happy 4th to you as well.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Congrats Stavros!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  +1


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey Glenn and Stavros.
  Enjoy your time together.
  There's lots to do there.
  But right now all I can think of is wonderful home cooked Greek food.


----------



## CEE TEE

Congratulations, Stavros!  
   
  6BL7's and one 1633?  Why do I smell a "6BL7 Appreciation Thread" sometime in the future?


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks all!
   
  Cee Tee, No, not another addiction, not to mention the 6663A we also tried......
   
  Here is a pic of the new amp:


----------



## Silent One

At last!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looks good! But we, addicted as we are, need moooooore (from on top 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## modca

That is an awesome amp...looks great
Congrats


----------



## longbowbbs

Heh Heh...Amp tease!  Glad you are having fun Glenn!


----------



## Silent One

Exactly, Ultrainferno and logbowbbs, _we're being lured._ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Our wallets should be out with the follow-up pix!


----------



## longbowbbs

AHA! Thanks for the warning SO. We will be disciplined and vigilant!


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn--Here's wishing you a safe trip back to NC.
  Stavros--Make sure that Glenn boards the plane.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Clayton, I'll be up early tomorrow!
   
  Some more photos from the "top", the cookies and jam will follow soon!!!!!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Very cool Stavros! It is like a Super 7 with attitude!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Awesome Stavros! Bucketload of tubes. Love it. 
I wonder who will be inviting Glenn next year. 
I kid I kid


----------



## GrindingThud

Wow, that's nice!


----------



## Silent One

Indeed! But, wasn't there suppose to be cookies underneath the tubes? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We wanna see them too!


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Thanks Clayton, I'll be up early tomorrow!
> 
> Some more photos from the "top", the cookies and jam will follow soon!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
  Holy crap, that is a beautiful amp..


----------



## Headampbro

Holy smoky, the amp looks so BEAUTIFUL!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Very cool Stavros! It is like a Super 7 with attitude!


 
  More like a Super 9
  It can take 8   6SN7s as outputs
  or   6     6BL7s
  or  2 or 4    6AS7s
  or  2    6336
  Drive 6SN7 , 12SN7 , 25SN7 and all there variants.
   
  Don't know if I will make another one of these amps maybe exclusively for Stavros.
   
  Getting ready to leave for the airport now.


----------



## Silent One

May the two of you find safe passage and comfort.


----------



## longbowbbs

Safe travels!


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn and L are on the way back, I hope they have a comfortable and safe journey.
   
  Meeting them both was one of my very best experiences.
   
  Until next year.
   
  Glenn opened up the amp for me.
  I have never seen anything so nice, the tube section equalising resistors look so cool, never seen anything like it before.
  I honestly don't know how he built this great sounding amp, I never thought it was possible.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn and L are on the way back, I hope they have a comfortable and safe journey.
> 
> Meeting them both was one of my very best experiences.
> 
> ...


 
  ....and the full review is pending......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Congrats Stavros! ....Sounds like you all had a wonderful time.


----------



## modca

You are so lucky  you knew Glenn and his girlfriend, got one of his great amps (if not the best of them) and had a lot of cookies at the same time
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Wish you could show us some pictures of you opening the box
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  maybe too much to ask
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  anyway it is reaaaaaly a great looking amp. Let us know what you think of it.


----------



## rosgr63

Here's a glimpse of L's cookies and jars of strawberry jam, the packing cylinders were filled with tubes!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  I must find a photo of Clayton's floaters, I mean the ones we are keeping for him, for when he comes over........


----------



## longbowbbs

You are going to need to run a Marathon to burn off those calories!   Yum!


----------



## Silent One

Just in time for my Brunch... you're too good, rosgr63!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Here's a glimpse of L's cookies and jars of strawberry jam, the packing cylinders were filled with tubes!!!!!!!!!!!
> I must find a photo of Clayton's floaters, I mean the ones we are keeping for him, for when he comes over........
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Jam%20packed!


 
  Your box from Glenn was literally Jam Packed! Hehehe.
  Yes! I need some floaters if I have any intention on floating to the neighboring Greek Islands when I visit you.


----------



## modca

It is great to take a peak on all the cookies inside of the box......gnammi gnammi
Leave some for us :b


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Here's a glimpse of L's cookies and jars of strawberry jam, the packing cylinders were filled with tubes!!!!!!!!!!!


 
   
  Hmmm, I wonder what kind of Champagne pairing these would offer? 'Cause you know if we ever got together, we'd be sipping the French bubbly with 'em, with "Me And Baby Brother" blasting in the background.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> You are going to need to run a Marathon to burn off those calories!   Yum!


 
   
  Actually we drove past Marathon nearly every day!
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Your box from Glenn was literally Jam Packed! Hehehe.
> Yes! I need some floaters if I have any intention on floating to the neighboring Greek Islands when I visit you.


 
   
  That sounds good Clayton!!!!!!!
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hmmm, I wonder what kind of Champagne pairing these would offer? 'Cause you know if we ever got together, we'd be sipping the French bubbly with 'em, with "Me And Baby Brother" blasting in the background.


 
   
  Nice thoughts, I like it.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That does NOT count...


----------



## rosgr63

Floaters and much more which I am not going to reveal yet!


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton, here are some of the floaters any preferences?
  More amp photos to follow.........


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton, here are some of the floaters any preferences?
> More amp photos to follow.........


 
   
  Okay. Aren't you going just a little too far.
  ... but ...
   
  MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE!


----------



## rosgr63

OK, I'll keep it for you.
   
  I'll just get a red one for me.
   
  I don't want to start any floater wars yet................


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> OK, I'll keep it for you.
> I'll just get a red one for me.
> I don't want to start any floater wars yet................


 
  Did I pick yours? If I did, then great minds think alike.
  Floater Wars.
  Now the question begs: Will they both make it across the Aegean Sea without deflating.


----------



## rosgr63

Sure, I thought of that already.
   
  Must sweet talk to my nephew first!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Sure, I thought of that already.
> Must sweet talk to my nephew first!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  Ply your nephew with a few cookies and jam and then make him listen to your new GlennAmp. He'll certainly loan you his floater after that. 
  I hope that you are slowly adjusting to your day-to-day activities now that Glenn is back in the US.
  He can spend 6 months in Greece if he spends 6 months in the US. We need him here too. 
   
  By the way, we can give the banana floater to Ultrainferno.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> By the way, we can give the banana floater to Ultrainferno.


 
   
  As long as I'm floating


----------



## rosgr63

Very difficult to get back to the daily routine huge vacuum like that of a tube!
   
  Yes Ultra can have the banana, if he promises to be good!!!!!!!!!
   
  The amp can run with 9X6SN7 + 3DG4 at 9X$1 + $5 total *$14*
  or 
  9XB65 + 3DG4 at 9X$400 + $5 total *$3605*
   

  Here are a couple photos of the GR Super 10.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Very difficult to get back to the daily routine huge vacuum like that of a tube!
> 
> Yes Ultra can have the banana, if he promises to be good!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the beautiful contribution, this thread loves pix! Also really like the contrast between tube options and their monetary value...WOWZA!


----------



## rosgr63

You are most welcome.
   
  I have quoted conservative figures, I payed more for some of my QB65's and QA2408.
  This is this amp's magic, you can run it as cheap or as expensive as you like.


----------



## modca

Great and beautiful amp  
  And great selection of tubes, i like the way it can be run real cheap


----------



## Headampbro

Woww, drooling!!!~~


----------



## longbowbbs

That is SOOO cool.....


----------



## Silent One

I'll go so far as to say a great amp is a lot like a great Pound Cake: simply designed yet returning outstanding flavor! Does *not* need anything else... _icing especially!_
   
  However, if Glenn wanted to serialize/engrave and/or add his emblem to the amps, that's some icing I'd accept.


----------



## CEE TEE

Whoa, Bessie!  This amp needs a name.


----------



## GrindingThud

Outstanding! What happens if you mix tube types (6AS7/6SN7)?



rosgr63 said:


> Very difficult to get back to the daily routine huge vacuum like that of a tube!
> 
> Yes Ultra can have the banana, if he promises to be good!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Outstanding! What happens if you mix tube types (6AS7/6SN7)?


 

 The amp was not made to mix tubes It will not damage anything might cause distortion
  with the tubes drawing a large difference in current from tube to tube.


----------



## rosgr63

I like to keep things simple, I'll just try various tube combinations as per Glenn's original design.
  It'll probably take about 150 years to try the various 6SN7's.......
   
  I am calling it a GR Super 10, after the Creator's Initials and because it has 10 sockets, for 10 tube combinations.
   
  Clayton, how much longer before D-Day?
  Have you noticed how good I've been, no mention of cookies or chocolates or floaters.........


----------



## Silent One

'GR Super 10' - quite brilliant, actually...


----------



## 2359glenn

This is a picture of the under side of Stavros amp


----------



## longbowbbs

Did I miss the Specs for the GR Super 10?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I like to keep things simple, I'll just try various tube combinations as per Glenn's original design.
> It'll probably take about 150 years to try the various 6SN7's.......
> 
> I am calling it a GR Super 10, after the Creator's Initials and because it has 10 sockets, for 10 tube combinations.
> ...


 

 GR Super 10 -- simply simple!
  36 Days until I leave for Amsterdam.
  45 Days until I end up at Ultrainferno's doorstep. I will see his sound room for the first time! We will listen to music for 5 minutes, then perhaps just eat, drink, bake, cook, eat, drink, swim, float (he has a pool too and has saved Glenn's packing materials for me to use as floaters--nice!)
   
  I wonder how many days it will be before I end up in Greece.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Your room is ready! I'm afraid the music listening part, as you say, will be limited. Too much to do, to see, to drink and to eat


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Your room is ready! I'm afraid the music listening part, as you say, will be limited. Too much to do, to see, to drink and to eat


 

 Sounds like Greece to much to do to be able to listen to music


----------



## rosgr63

That's very exciting Clayton!!!!!!!
   
  Listening time is always minimum when you have good company.
   
  Now is the time to listen to fill the vacuum!!!!!!
   
  And the tube addiction continues................................


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Your room is ready! I'm afraid the music listening part, as you say, will be limited. Too much to do, to see, to drink and to eat


 
  My main goal when visiting Belgium would be to travel around the country and drink as much of your delicious beer as possible.


----------



## 2359glenn

We were drinking Belgium beer in Athens.
  But wanted to stick with the Greek beer FIX


----------



## Ultrainferno

Which Belgian ones did you have Glenn?


----------



## rosgr63

One of my favourites


----------



## Ultrainferno

Stella! I used to live in the town were it's made. It's normal lager but it's ok
  I now live in a town with several local breweries, much better beer as well


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Stella! I used to live in the town were it's made. It's normal lager but it's ok
> _*I now live in a town with several local breweries*_, much better beer as well


 
  I like that very much.
  We'll drink that very much.
  Thank you very much.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I like that very much.
> We'll drink that very much.
> Thank you very much.


 

 lol


----------



## fishski13

Clayton,
  i'm not sure if you're hitting Belgium, but if you have the time, Brugge is a must detour.  a beautiful and romantic city.  lots of good pubs, including this one: http://www.brugsbeertje.be/index_en.htm .  it's a Mecca for Belgian beer connoisseurs.  don't be fooled by the friendly smile of the bartender - she's really quite dour.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  x2...


----------



## rosgr63

Come on please don't lead Clayton astray.
   
  Me and Glenn need him to keep us on track, we can't have Clayton trailing all over these nice breweries, Ultra please be careful!
   
  Currently listening to AKG K701 with the GR Super 10, current system:
   
  Mac => CryoParts USB Cable => Maroon Audio Buffalo DAC24 => VH Audio RCA Interconnects => GR Super 10 (Ken Rad 1633 Driver, 6 RCA 6BL7 Output) => Balanced AKG K701 (with a XLR to SE adaptor).


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> _*Come on please don't lead Clayton astray.*_
> Me and Glenn need him to keep us on track, we can't have Clayton trailing all over these nice breweries, Ultra please be careful!


 
   
  Lest we stray, I will listen to the following songs or movie dialogue on my 300B mono blocks built by Glenn:
   
  "_I Will Follow Him_", 
            first recorded by Paola Neri, is also a _song_ recorded by Little Peggy March in 1963. 
  "_Who's_ the more foolish? The _fool_, or the _fool who_ follows him?"
            ―Obi-Wan Kenobi. Source. _Star Wars_ *...*
  "_99 Bottles of Beer_" 
            is an anonymous United States folk song dating to the mid-20th century.
  "_Here We Go Round the Mulberry Bush_" (also titled "Mulberry Bush" or "This is the Way")
            is an English language nursery rhyme and singing game.
  "_One Beer, Two Beers, Drie Bieren, Vier Bieren_," first performed by Ultrainferno & Clayton SF, Belguim, August 2013.
            (Actually the second performance. The first performance was in Amsterdam, August 2012)


----------



## rosgr63

Any tickets left?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Any tickets left?


 
  Lots of seats available so lots of tickets left.
  This is a European tour.
  Dates will be announced and Greece is definitely one of the stops on the tour.
   
_Amplifiers by Glenn_
_Recorded at Glenn Studios_
_Opening Act: Glenn Jam and the Energy Bakers at the Cookie Hall_
_Accommodations by Stavros & Team_
_(No tubes were destroyed during the production of the Music Video)_


----------



## Ultrainferno

2nd performance tickets are still available but they are selling out quickly.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> 2nd performance tickets are still available but they are selling out quickly.


 
  Here's a map of the Ultrainferno and Clayton SF Beer Tour.
  Requirement 1: We must be able to at least say beer in the European Country that we're in.
  Requirement 2: We must be able to pronounce any word correctly after sampling their beers.
   
  Big view--click on map.


----------



## c0937753

Drar Glenn:
   
  Please reception Private Messages,thanks.
   
  Best Regard
   
  David Chen


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 
  There's always room for another glass full of bubbly-foamy.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Here's a map of the Ultrainferno and Clayton SF Beer Tour.
> Requirement 1: We must be able to at least say beer in the European Country that we're in.
> Requirement 2: We must be able to pronounce any word correctly after sampling their beers.


 
   
  Is that after the 10th pint or before?


----------



## Ultrainferno

So will you be joining us for a beer, Stavros?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> There's always room for another glass full of bubbly-foamy.


 
   
  When I _Jet to Paris_, I'm definitely making time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




for Reims, France. Though, I'm left wondering if my love of Champagne & Luxury baths - not always together - leaves me with a fascination 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




for bubbles.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> So will you be joining us for a beer, Stavros?


 
   
  It doesn't take me much to start singing and I sing bad, you and Clayton will be very embarrassed!
   
  BTW there is a lot of talk about the 596 lately on the Woo thread, I don't know why it's been glorified so much.
   
  After all it's just the female version of the 5U4GB.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> When I _Jet to Paris_, I'm definitely making time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Reims is one of my yearly trips, it's not even a 2 hour drive from my place. Was thinking of taking Clayton there, but we'll see.
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> It doesn't take me much to start singing and I sing bad, you and Clayton will be very embarrassed!
> 
> BTW there is a lot of talk about the 596 lately on the Woo thread, I don't know why it's been glorified so much.
> 
> After all it's just the female version of the 5U4GB.


 
   
  Yeah, those 596 lovers don't know what good sound is. I'll have a 5U4G(B) any time! The RK-60 is also very nice, have you had a chance to listen to that one?


----------



## rosgr63

I am hooked on the 3DG4 so I haven't tried my 5AU4 or 596 for long.


----------



## Ultrainferno

You should get an adapter from Glenn for the RK-60. You need an RK-60


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> It doesn't take me much to start singing and I sing bad, you and Clayton will be very embarrassed!
> 
> BTW there is a lot of talk about the 596 lately on the Woo thread, I don't know why it's been glorified so much.
> 
> After all it's just the female version of the 5U4GB.


 
   
  As a "Woozie" I'd like to suggest that for me it was simply a matter of the way my Woo was voiced, tube complemented and the system I ran. Many variables - I loved what this particular glass brought to _my_ table. BUT, this can be said for nearly all gears and accessories introduced to one's system. What plays well inside your listening room, may or may not get my attention. It usually does 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





though.
   





 And who doesn't like females? I kid I kid. I'll rock any version if it's worthy to be in my system. Currently, my gear is suffering from claustrophobia.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Reims is one of my yearly trips, it's not even a 2 hour drive from my place. Was thinking of taking Clayton there, but we'll see.
> 
> Yeah, those 596 lovers don't know what good sound is. I'll have a 5U4G(B) any time! The RK-60 is also very nice, have you had a chance to listen to that one?


 
   
  Misguided '596' lovers? Apples & Oranges, really. But 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




if you say so. I had NO idea you lived so close to a luxury of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




sparkles!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You should get an adapter from Glenn for the RK-60. You need an RK-60


 
   
  I am not a tube addict, I don't like tubes, I really don't like tubes, no more tubes, I am going SS..........................


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am not a tube addict, I don't like tubes, I really don't like tubes, no more tubes, I am going SS..........................


 
  And I don't like beer. I'm going crazy.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ah, Ultra we are in the different strokes club...I have a 5U4GB and prefer the 596...Both are at the top of my list though.


----------



## modca

Maaan, I am so newb about all this tube addiction that I think I will buy all of them to get all the fuss about it


----------



## Ultrainferno

Better stay away from here then


----------



## Silent One

Public Service Announcements on Tube Addiction are not effective.


----------



## modca

Ok I'll keep watching from a distance the fact is that I do not even know how they sound, but they look so seductive, maybe I am crazy


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





modca said:


> Ok I'll keep watching from a distance the fact is that I do not even know how they sound, but they look so seductive, maybe I am crazy


 
   
  What you need to do is touch one. And caress it if you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




must. And then find a way to hear it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What you need to do is touch one. And caress it if you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's exactly what I did with a seashell that I picked up on the beach yesterday afternoon.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's exactly what I did with a seashell that I picked up on the beach yesterday afternoon.


 
   
  Oh my!


----------



## modca

I am sorry Uma but you mean sex right? No tubes only tubes


----------



## Ultrainferno

Oh no, I just bought another 5 of RCA 5U4GB tubes. They just kept calling my name, I had to click "buy"


----------



## modca

Yes yes my Lord of Tubes


----------



## Ultrainferno

Hey Glenn,
   
  any idea why those 5Z4G CV1863 keep blowing up in my amp? They do work fine in Clayton's amp.
   
  Thx!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Hey Glenn,
> 
> any idea why those 5Z4G CV1863 keep blowing up in my amp? They do work fine in Clayton's amp.
> 
> Thx!


 

 The 5Z4G is only good for 125ma your amp has two 300Bs at 70ma each and two C3gs at 20ma each
  This is 180ma plus recharge current to the capacitors. This is why they are blowing up.
  Clayton's mono block amps only have one 300B and one C3g per amp this adds up to 90ma this is fine
  for a 5Z4.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am not a tube addict, I don't like tubes, I really don't like tubes, no more tubes, I am going SS..........................


 

 Do you want me to build you a semi SS amp? A 6SN7 driving high power mosfets
  120 watts output into a 8 ohm load nearly twice that into a 4 ohm load.
  You don't need to buy any 6SN7s I know you have them or 12SN7s or 25SN7s will all work.
  No tube addiction only two 6SN7s   More power then you will ever need easy to blow your speakers up ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I might be interested


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The 5Z4G is only good for 125ma your amp has two 300Bs at 70ma each and two C3gs at 20ma each
> This is 180ma plus recharge current to the capacitors. This is why they are blowing up.
> Clayton's mono block amps only have one 300B and one C3g per amp this adds up to 90ma this is fine
> for a 5Z4.


 
   
  That actually makes a lot of sense. Math, who would have thought I'd ever need it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Thanks for the info. The bullethole plates in the 5Z4G are the prettiest plates ever though. They're now being used as decoration.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> That actually makes a lot of sense. Math, who would have thought I'd ever need it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Give them to Clayton he can use them.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Do you want me to build you a semi SS amp? A 6SN7 driving high power mosfets
> 120 watts output into a 8 ohm load nearly twice that into a 4 ohm load.
> You don't need to buy any 6SN7s I know you have them or 12SN7s or 25SN7s will all work.
> No tube addiction only two 6SN7s   More power then you will ever need easy to blow your speakers up ?


 
   
  No......No.....No.
   
  You already made my addiction much worst by introducing me to the 25SN7 and 6BL7 and 6336 and all of them just in one amp..........
   
*Clayton *can I hide inside your seashell please?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> No......No.....No.
> 
> You already made my addiction much worst by introducing me to the 25SN7 and 6BL7 and 6336 and all of them just in one amp..........
> 
> *Clayton *can I hide inside your seashell please?


 
  You should have him do the hybrid for you. It will drive Maggies. 240W into a 4 ohm load driving the Maggie 1.7 or better yet the 3.7


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The 5Z4G is only good for 125ma your amp has two 300Bs at 70ma each and two C3gs at 20ma each
> This is 180ma plus recharge current to the capacitors. This is why they are blowing up.
> Clayton's mono block amps only have one 300B and one C3g per amp this adds up to 90ma this is fine
> for a 5Z4.


 
   
  Welcome back!
   
  My question is related to the WooAudio WA5. Last time we spoke on this, I brought up the wrong version of the Siemens tube. Would I be able to use the C3g with adapter as a drop in tube for the 6SN7 inside the WA5? Thanks!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> No......No.....No.
> You already made my addiction much worst by introducing me to the 25SN7 and 6BL7 and 6336 and all of them just in one amp..........
> 
> *Clayton *can I hide inside your seashell please?


 

 Yes. _*There's room for you*_. It sounds like the ocean in here. Very relaxing.


----------



## rosgr63

I think Glenn wants me to get locked up in a lunatic asylum soon.
   
  That's why I need Clayton's help, very nice hide out!
  Does it come with a mermaid?
   
  Tektron are not bad speakers either.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Welcome back!
> 
> My question is related to the WooAudio WA5. Last time we spoke on this, I brought up the wrong version of the Siemens tube. Would I be able to use the C3g with adapter as a drop in tube for the 6SN7 inside the WA5? Thanks!


 

 Not that easy but I suppose it can be done.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Welcome back!
> 
> My question is related to the WooAudio WA5. Last time we spoke on this, I brought up the wrong version of the Siemens tube. Would I be able to use the C3g with adapter as a drop in tube for the 6SN7 inside the WA5? Thanks!


 
  I would also like to know!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I think Glenn wants me to get locked up in a lunatic asylum soon.
> 
> That's why I need Clayton's help, very nice hide out!
> Does it come with a mermaid?
> ...


 

 Common Stavros I am trying to help you a amp with only two tubes.
  I know I have been a bad boy introducing you to new Tubes with this new OTL  amp.
  have to ween you off tubes slowly or you could end up in a lunatic asylum if you go cold turkey.
  Your neighbors might not like this Hybrid amp though.
  Have to think of something else Cookies were no good especially when I send Tubes and cookies in
  the same box.  Even put tubes in a cookie tin that was bad but it worked and no tubes got broke.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I would also like to know!


 

 Have to find out what the plate resistor is on the drive section of the 6SN7
  The C3g has to have enough current to work properly driving a 300B.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Have to find out what the plate resistor is on the drive section of the 6SN7
> The C3g has to have enough current to work properly driving a 300B.


 
   
  I'm still set on ordering some electronic goodies from the Studio this autumn. It's just that I've wanted a WA5 for so long. Now I wanted spec'd to my liking, if I'm paying for it. Not being able to use the C3g in place of a 6SN7 could be a deal breaker. And yes, you'd be properly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





compensated.


----------



## Xcalibur255

You are still trying to substitute a pentode in the place of a triode, even with the heater current being the same.  Plus the biasing might be pretty different for the two tubes.  This is likely why Woo Audio doesn't want to do the customization because they have to re-design the power supply to get the plate current on the C3g right all the resistor values would probably change.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You are still trying to substitute a pentode in the place of a triode, even with the heater current being the same.  Plus the biasing might be pretty different for the two tubes.  This is likely why Woo Audio doesn't want to do the customization because they have to re-design the power supply to get the plate current on the C3g right all the resistor values would probably change.


 
   





 My bad. I completely forgot - that's what Jack told me in April.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Common Stavros I am trying to help you a amp with only two tubes.
> I know I have been a bad boy introducing you to new Tubes with this new OTL  amp.
> have to ween you off tubes slowly or you could end up in a lunatic asylum if you go cold turkey.
> Your neighbors might not like this Hybrid amp though.
> ...


 
   
  Yes you are bad, very bad!
  What you managed so far is to ween me off all other amps, tube or SS, and get me hooked on the GR Super 10.
   
  Cookies were very very good, even though L told everybody she sent them I managed to fool most all but my niece.
  She's too clever to fool.........
   
  BTW the AKG K701 sounds very good, one of these days I'll try the K1000.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Common Stavros I am trying to help you a amp with only two tubes.
> I know I have been a bad boy introducing you to new Tubes with this new OTL  amp.
> have to ween you off tubes slowly or you could end up in a lunatic asylum if you go cold turkey.
> Your neighbors might not like this Hybrid amp though.
> ...


 
   
  Yes you are bad, very bad!
  What you managed so far is to ween me off all other amps, tube or SS, and get me hooked on the GR Super 10.
   
  Cookies were very very good, even though L told everybody she sent them I managed to fool most all but my niece.
  She's too clever to fool.........and I had to share!!!!!!
   
  BTW the AKG K701 sounds very good, one of these days I'll try the K1000.


----------



## dminches

With my Glenn OTL I am using 2 GEC CV 2523s, 1 Mullard ECC32 and 1 Mullard GZ37.  I have been pairing it with my Beyer T1s.  It is a wonderful combination that only lacks in the low end.  It is a little bright but very nicely detailed and dynamic.  Maybe I need to find a replacement for the ECC32 which would add more bass.  Any suggestions?


----------



## rosgr63

David a 6SN7GTB will add more of a low end at the expense of the mids.
   
  What about the TS or NU 6F8G's?
   
  Also try the Ken-Rad, NU 6SN7's and Sylvania 6SN7W.


----------



## dminches

I am going to be busy this weekend!


----------



## rosgr63

Yes, more toys to play with!
   
  Happy Listening.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Having a quick listen to the 300b integrated before the bbq party arrives (Yes, Clayton, another BBQ!). Using the JJ 300B, Siemens C3G and Raytheon RK-60 Glenn sent me. That with the HE-500 and Violectric V800 sounds magical. Falco's Jeannie never sounded so good!
   
  Still happy as a kid with the Glenn amp!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Having a quick listen to the 300b integrated before the bbq party arrives (Yes, Clayton, another BBQ!). Using the JJ 300B, Siemens C3G and Raytheon RK-60 Glenn sent me. That with the HE-500 and Violectric V800 sounds magical. Falco's Jeannie never sounded so good!
> 
> Still happy as a kid with the Glenn amp!


 
   
  GlennAmps Rule! I was listening to my GlennMonoMono this morning. Sweeeeeet! I like that C3g. It is cute to look at amoungst the towering GZ37, UX-281 and the Gigantor300B.
   
  Okay, Ultra-, I hope that you don't run out of bbq parties before I arrive next month otherwise I'll have to start one there myself.
   
  Hey, Stavros, what is a Greek bbq picnic like?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Having a quick listen to the 300b integrated before the bbq party arrives (Yes, Clayton, another BBQ!). Using the JJ 300B, Siemens C3G and Raytheon RK-60 Glenn sent me. That with the HE-500 and Violectric V800 sounds magical. Falco's Jeannie never sounded so good!
> 
> Still happy as a kid with the Glenn amp!


 
   
  Your tube complement... very nice! Got any feather-light Astrud Gilberto vocals over there?


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> GlennAmps Rule! I was listening to my GlennMonoMono this morning. Sweeeeeet! I like that C3g. It is cute to look at amoungst the towering GZ37, UX-281 and the Gigantor300B.
> 
> Okay, Ultra-, I hope that you don't run out of bbq parties before I arrive next month otherwise I'll have to start one there myself.
> 
> *Hey, Stavros, what is a Greek bbq picnic like? *


 
   
  Clayton, I don't know I never survived one to the end yet, always fell asleep too drunk, too full..................
  You'll have to tell me when we get one organised when you come over next!
   
  Ultra get the Latin music blaring, otherwise it's no party!!!!!!
  Enjoy it my friend.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton, I don't know I never survived one to the end yet, _*always fell asleep too drunk, too full.*_.................
> You'll have to tell me when we get one organised when you come over next!


 
  That's exactly how I'd imagine Ultra-'s bbqs to be. From 9.00-23.00 hours.
  And, Stavros, we've got a year to plan this Greek Meet.


----------



## rosgr63

I know, but I am getting very excited already.
   
  If you are still awake after 23:00hrs you can still go out with the rest of the wild bunch until sunrise.
  They never go by time only by the moon, the stars and the sun.......
   
  Dress code: swim gear and floaters..............


----------



## modca

Why am I always under the impression that this is a BBQ/cookies/eating/parting/drinking thread? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  You guys make laugh too much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Keep it that way, I am on a diet and you BBQ/cookies/parting/drinking make me feel better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  There are better days ahead.....I hope.


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





modca said:


> Why am I always under the impression that this is a BBQ/cookies/eating/parting/drinking thread?


 
   
  Wait, this thread isn't about eating/drinking/partying/cookies/music?  It's the main reason I'm here since I don't own a glenn amp (yet?).


----------



## modca

You have been fooled just like me....I am sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I can be on a diet but I will never give up on a Glenn Studio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





daigo said:


> Wait, this thread isn't about eating/drinking/partying/cookies/music?  It's the main reason I'm here since I don't own a glenn amp (yet?).


 

 As I am apt to say, and I am sure that Glenn and Stavros will back me up on this: Eat well. Listen better.
  Or I am sure that Ultrainferno will attest to this: Eat BBQ, drink what ye love, and be merry. Then listen to your Glenn Amp and be merrier.


----------



## rosgr63

I couldn't agree more Clayton!


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> As I am apt to say, and I am sure that Glenn and Stavros will back me up on this: Eat well. Listen better.
> Or I am sure that Ultrainferno will attest to this: Eat BBQ, drink what ye love, and be merry. Then listen to your Glenn Amp and be merrier.


 
   
  Music, beer and food are probably my three favorite things.  Hearing about the traveling adventures is also up there since I enjoy that as well


----------



## rosgr63

Don't forget amps and tubes!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Tube rolling has started, testing 3 different RSD 6SN7 in the driver position, 3DG4 rectifier, 6 6BL7 as outputs driving AKG K701.
   
  Listening to Roy Hamilton, Unchained Melody.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I own 4 tube testers that I bought from Bob Putnak. He's a good friend of mine. We also share cooking recipes (believe it or not). They all have been calibrated and one of them actually has a rectifier in it. It is a tube tube tester!!!
> 
> Here are the Hickok Model 799, and the PACO Model 10-12.


 
   
  These seem so complex. Do you have to study the manual for a year before being able to use them?


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


>


 
   
   
  Hey, wait a minute...  I've seen this somewhere before.


----------



## dminches

They are very easy to use.


----------



## Clayton SF

Once you get into learning it, it is really fun and simple to use.
  This is a Sencore Tube Tester. My favorite one. It is so easy to use.


----------



## Ultrainferno

What do your manuals say for GZ33/34/37 tubes? All the same?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> What do your manuals say for GZ33/34/37 tubes? All the same?


 
  Pin settings are different and curiously, there is no setting for GZ33.


----------



## Ultrainferno

And what if the gz series isnt in the manual


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> And what if the gz series isnt in the manual


 
  Then you will have to come to San Francisco and I'll test the tubes for you. 
   
  Listening to my GlennMonoMonos!
  They are wonderful this Saturday afternoon!
  And they are packing the Brimar 5Z4G with bullet holes.
  Double your pleasure, double your fun!


----------



## Ultrainferno

jealous!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Tube rolling has started, testing 3 different RSD 6SN7 in the driver position, 3DG4 rectifier, 6 6BL7 as outputs driving AKG K701.
> 
> Listening to Roy Hamilton, Unchained Melody.


 

 You might have to switch to 6336 outputs if you try the K1000s should give enough power for them?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> jealous!


 
  Are you still up? Ultra-!


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Are you still up? Ultra-!



Just got home. Fueled up with Carlsberg. Now a late night snack and then time for bed. Dreaming of amps and cookies. Mmm cookies


----------



## rosgr63

The tester Clayton showed you is very easy to use.
   
  If the test settings are not in the manual then you can't test the tube.
  Sometimes there are extra test data sheets which a seller may have.
   
  Most important is to have the right types of sockets and filament voltages.
   
  Some tubes like the 596 you'll have to test with an adapter.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> The tester Clayton showed you is very easy to use.
> 
> If the test settings are not in the manual then you can't test the tube.
> Sometimes there are extra test data sheets which a seller may have.
> ...


 
   
  I test a lot of tubes that aren't in the book, including the 596 and the GZ37.  If the pin outs are the same and the tube is a replacement for another, I just use that tube's settings.  In the end, you just want to make sure there aren't any shorts or electrical problems.
   
  Do others feels differently?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think a lot of people do this.  This is my suspicion about why some sellers put weak 5998 tubes out the door, because they were testing them as a 6AS7G.  The 5998 has more than twice the transconductance so testing strong by 6AS7 standards meant the tube could actually be weak.
   
  Shorts and leaks is definitely the most important testing, people pay too much attention to emission.  As long as the tube functions in the circuit and doesn't sound bad it's fine after it passes the short/leak test.


----------



## dminches

Exactly.  I am not testing them for sale.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I have been very tempted to buy the Jackson 648S that Bob has for sale right now.  It's a beautiful tester, but I'm worried it might be "too much" tester for a first time owner like me and the shorts testing is not as sensitive as it could be.  Love the fact that it tests all tube types.  I will need to test 45 tubes and lots of more modern testers don't have that 4-pin socket.  I'm not sure what to do........


----------



## dminches

I bought one from Bob a couple months ago and that's all I use now.


----------



## Ultrainferno

The good Stavros is looking for one for me. We're looking at TV-7.


----------



## dminches

Here is some excellent advice from Bob Putnak
   
If you want a nutshell summary, I find room for both machines.
TV-7 pros:
- better test method for amplifying tubes
- military build quality
- highly respected by everyone, although that may be due to it simply being a military product and the military always used "quality"
- grid leakage test is better than the Jackson, although still inferior to a few other testers that excel in that *1* area, but are inferior otherwise.

Jackson pros:
- substantially better rectifier test
- better life test
- model S, which I recommended, has a full socket config of 4-pin thru 12-pin compactron.
- damn near maintenance-free 

Less-than-ideal aspects:
- neither has a great leakage test

- the TV-7 shorts test is very limited -- this applies to all Hickok's too.  The Jackson shorts test is OK but not foolproof.  

- the high AC fields generated by the Jackson can sometimes skew readings of high-mu tubes, such as 7868 or 7591.  Generally this is easy to spot because if you cup the tube with your hand and the reading changes, you are seeing oscillation, but that may not always be evident.  Oscillation is a issue with all tube testers to some degree, and yet ANOTHER problem that makes "tube testing" an art and NOT a science.  The S model is better than earlier models at suppressing oscillation.

- the Jackson test method does not "prove" that a tube is capable of amplification.  That sounds worse in theory than reality.  The Jackson test method proves that the tube can supply the plate current that is necessary to operate a typical circuit that uses that tube.  That is very useful, and it does factor in the control grid and does use high potentials on the plate and screen.  That is not the same as supplying a test signal and amplifying it, which is what a Gm tester does.  And the end of the day, it seldom makes a difference in "tube testing" as the Jackson is great at finding bad tubes.  In the rare situation that the tube would pass a Jackson test but not actually amplify -- a situation that I have NEVER encountered in 20 years -- any novice tech should be able to find that the signal stops at the tube's plate circuit, thereby indicating a tube change was necessary.

In reality, regardless of tube tester, you will find a number of tubes that PASS your tube tester(s) and work SUBSTANDARD (or outright fail) IN-CIRCUIT, and you will find that many tubes you REJECT as "bad" or "weak" would work FINE in circuit if you had actually tried them.  That will ALWAYS be a FACT.


----------



## Xcalibur255

That's very helpful, thanks for sharing that.


----------



## rosgr63

In our discussions with Bob and Glenn also agrees, we have concluded that the best and final test is in circuit.
   
  I only test tubes for which I have set up data and strictly equivalent tubes.
  I have 8 testers so between them there is a good chance I can find what I need.
   
  My daily work horses are a Jackson 648 and a Philco 9100 with a plate current mod.
   
  Xcalibur the Jackson is a good tester but the TV 7 is a step above as it measures transconductance, robust and very well made, but more expensive.
   
  The critical factor is to get a tester that has been rebuilt, as most resistors will have drifted by now.
   
  Finally a tube can operate in circuit at a different point than the one tested in the tester and could fail even if it has passed all the tests even the 100 Khz leakage test the Sencore/B&K/Mercury use.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Here is some excellent advice from Bob Putnak
> 
> ...
> 
> In reality, regardless of tube tester, you will find a number of tubes that PASS your tube tester(s) and work SUBSTANDARD (or outright fail) IN-CIRCUIT, and you will find that many tubes you REJECT as "bad" or "weak" would work FINE in circuit if you had actually tried them.  That will ALWAYS be a FACT.


 
   
  That is so true. I own 4 Mullard EL34 tubes and 2 test bad, 1 tests very week, and another tests very strong on the 4 tube testers I own. Surprisingly they still sound incredible in my power amp. I reported this to Bob Putnak and he said to just keep using the Mullards until they don't sound good anymore. And that was 2 years ago. They still test the same and they still sound incredibly good. -- Go figure.


----------



## rosgr63

Some of the DDR tubes have a similar behaviour the famous Tesla 6CC1 and 6CC10.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Hope I can find a tester soon!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I have been very tempted to buy the Jackson 648S that Bob has for sale right now.  It's a beautiful tester, but I'm worried it might be "too much" tester for a first time owner like me and the shorts testing is not as sensitive as it could be.  Love the fact that it tests all tube types.  I will need to test 45 tubes and lots of more modern testers don't have that 4-pin socket.  I'm not sure what to do........


 
  That Jackson that Bob had for sale is in near perfect.condition since the numbers and the letters in the top of the buttons are in great shape. The big main pot is hard to replace if not in good shape. I used to have a Jackson but I would also look into the  TV 7 as well.
  I would agree with Bob that a tube tested good can fail in a circuit especially with tube amps that uses DC servo control.


----------



## Silent One

Testers --
   






 The info here is at once very informative and dizzying. I'm gonna have to brave the purchase soon myself, Xcalibur255.


----------



## rosgr63

You've been very quiet SO!
   
  The best tube money I ever spent were on testers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You've been very quiet SO!
> 
> The best tube money I ever spent were on testers.


 
   





 Well... ... ... we got the 2 rabbit ears sticking out. But, if I can find 2 nickels to rub together, when I'm done I'll place one in each pocket and put the pockets back down into my pants.
   
  While testers appear to have limits, I think my eventual purchase will prove wise. AND you know I'll reach out to you first, then Bob.


----------



## rosgr63

When you are ready, it will be my pleasure to introduce you to Bob.
   
  What I know about testers, tubes and amps is very little, so I learn something new everytime I look for a tester whether it's for a friend or myself.


----------



## Silent One

I've been very fortunate to date - out of many tubes in and out of my amps, only had a single tube (new) arrive DOA. No other problems with tubes in either amp.
   
  Well... it took a lot getting used to the Submarine pinging 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




of the '5998s' during warm-up. But this didn't affect performance. Once the tubes were "hot," so was my 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Playlist!


----------



## rosgr63

That's the way I like it........
   
*EDIT: *David how did your tube rolling go?


----------



## dminches

I started with the Sylvania 6SN7WGT and it toned the highs down a bit.  i'll leave that in there for a couple weeks since the tube is likely NOS.


----------



## rosgr63

I am currently using a RCA 1633 Grey Glass 1948 vintage driver.
  It has a lighter presentation than the Ken-Rad 1633.
   
  Clayton all this tube tester talk has given me a headache.
  Any chance of a nice ice cream photo to cheer me up please?


----------



## 2359glenn

When I first started making these amps I made them with only
  25 volt to the driver socket and the amps only could use 1633 & 13D1 tubes
  I thought that these tubes sounded better and the 1633 was cheep com paired a good 6SN7s


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn I got this nice RCA (which are one of my all time favourites) 1633 NIB pair 1948 vintage for $19.99.
   
  An equivalent pair in 6SN7 (which sounds the same) would cost much more.
   
  It's just that my tube addiction has expanded vertically and horizontally with my GR Super 10!
   
  Glenn my 14 year old niece told me I am too fat and I am not allowed any ice cream, to eat or even look at.........


----------



## GrindingThud

Whoa, found a new triode for you....and evidntly a sizeable stock of them: http://www.head-fi.org/t/249671/the-diy-headphone-stand-thread/1995#post_9620463


----------



## rosgr63

*I am not looking,  I am not looking..........*


----------



## Silent One

Then have a look at this massive 150amp/6 channel vacuum rectifier valve:


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn I got this nice RCA (which are one of my all time favourites) 1633 NIB pair 1948 vintage for $19.99.
> 
> An equivalent pair in 6SN7 (which sounds the same) would cost much more.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I know been bad making you a amp that can use so many different tubes but it was fun to make and sounds good.
   
  How can she call you fat after seeing me. Does she know you have L's strawberry jam to put on top of the ice cream.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Then have a look at this massive 150amp/6 channel vacuum rectifier valve:


 

 They come bigger then that The New York subway system used Mercury vapor rectifiers to change
  3 phase 660 volts to DC for the trains they replaced the inefficient motor generators that were originally used,
  They were still in use not that long ago but are all replaced with large SS rectifiers now.


----------



## GrindingThud

Like these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q89SV_UwykQ




2359glenn said:


> They come bigger then that The New York subway system used Mercury vapor rectifiers to change
> 3 phase 660 volts to DC for the trains they replaced the inefficient motor generators that were originally used,
> They were still in use not that long ago but are all replaced with large SS rectifiers now.


----------



## john57

You can still find videos of the Mercury vapor rectifiers used in train stations on the web. They are bright, noisy and have a big cooling fan. Those tubes gives me the impression that they will blow up any minute.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> They come bigger then that The New York subway system used Mercury vapor rectifiers to change
> 3 phase 660 volts to DC for the trains they replaced the inefficient motor generators that were originally used,
> They were still in use not that long ago but are all replaced with large SS rectifiers now.


 
   
  And to think, I use to ride all 130 miles of subway tracks in NYC and had no idea what lurked beneath!


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn, can you make adapters for those Mercury vapor rectifiers to fit in your monomonos? I wonder if I can find two NOS on ebay.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I know been bad making you a amp that can use so many different tubes but it was fun to make and sounds good.
> 
> How can she call you fat after seeing me. Does she know you have L's strawberry jam to put on top of the ice cream.


 
   
  Now you're hurting my feelings, I can't reveal *ALL *my secrets!!!!!!!
  Somehow she found out.......I have no place to hide now.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Glenn, can you make adapters for those Mercury vapor rectifiers to fit in your monomonos? I wonder if I can find two NOS on ebay.


 
   
  I am sure he can!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Glenn,
   
  any news on what you're working on at the moment?
   
  I found this pic Clayton once sent me: chocolates and Glenn amps. perfect!


----------



## rosgr63

I can see the Big Russian at the back, with great difficulty as I can't get past the chocolate!!!!
   
  This is very distracting Clayton and tempting and I am on a diet and I can't have any sweets........I am not allowed.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I can see the Big Russian at the back, with great difficulty as I can't get past the chocolate!!!!
> 
> This is very distracting Clayton and tempting and I am on a diet and I can't have any sweets........I am not allowed.


 

 Well if you keep to your diet, in a year when Ultra- and I come knocking on your door in Greece, you'll be able to eat all the sweets you want, then. Look out!
   
  We must all plan ahead! Glenn, you too!


----------



## longbowbbs

I am on tube withdrawal for 2 weeks at the Scout Jamboree....JH16's and iPod Mini...I can roll down the trail.....


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well if you keep to your diet, in a year when Ultra- and I come knocking on your door in Greece, you'll be able to eat all the sweets you want, then. Look out!
> 
> We must all plan ahead! Glenn, you too!


 
   
   
  Great positive thinking, I like it.
   
  Meantime how often can I be naughty until then?
   
  BTW there'll be no tube or amp talk when we meet.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> BTW there'll be no tube or amp talk when we meet.


 
   
  Even if you were serious I wonder how long it would take for one of us to bring up amps or tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Or: if one mentions tubes/amps, the others get to eat some chocolate!


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton, please help me on this, try to keep Ultra and Glenn under control.
   
  There'll be *NO Tube or amp talk* when we meet.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> BTW there'll be no tube or amp talk when we meet.


 
   
  How can we talk about anything with our mouths full?
   
  geezeedirtyheaven
   
  What?
  geeseebirdykevin
   
  Huh?
  GZ37.
   
  Oh. Ok. Now finish chewing your food.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Lol C. Made me laugh!


----------



## rosgr63

I like it, it's getting better.
   
  Now I have a good excuse to practice.
   
  How many days before you fly Clayton?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I like it, it's getting better.
> Now I have a good excuse to practice.
> How many days before you fly Clayton?


 
  28 days until I fly to Schiphol Airport.
  36 days until I become the first Head-Fi'er to see Ultrainferno's sound room! Mind you--I'll just look at it and then it is beer time. No time for tube amps and music and headphones. I need to scope out Ultra-'s town, country, and cuisine first. He has already hinted to me that there are various activities planned and one will involve 200 steps to the top of some medieval tower where I have to hang upside down while I guzzle beer and eat chocolates. ...just kidding!
   
  Whatever he has up his sleeves, I am sure it will be very memorable.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> 36 days until I become the first Head-Fi'er to see Ultrainferno's sound room!


 
   
  you mean he hasn't seen his own room yet?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dminches said:


> you mean he hasn't seen his own room yet?


 
   
  good one! I'm re-aranging it right at this very moment. It's nothing compared to all your gear but I'm happy with it.
  Edit: who wants a preview?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> you mean he hasn't seen his own room yet?


 
  I was under the impression that his misses blindfolded him before he entered the room. Nothing, and I mean nothing, should distract him from the beauty of his misses.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I was under the impression that his misses blindfolded him before he entered the room. Nothing, and I mean nothing, should distract him from the beauty of his misses.


 

 That's a different kind of room C. And thanks


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I do!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> That's a different kind of room C. And thanks


 
  Lol U. Made me laugh!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Glenn,
> 
> any news on what you're working on at the moment?
> 
> I found this pic Clayton once sent me: chocolates and Glenn amps. perfect!


 
   
  I am building a #45 tube driven by a C3g headphone amp using all Lundahl transformers .
   
  All parts are top of the line Duelund coupling capacitors goldpoint stepped attenuator.
   
  All parts will be made in USA or Europe should maybe the best amp I made yet. Eventhough
   
  it uses the best transformers made I don't know if it will sound better then the OTL I just
   
  made for Stavros.  I am trying to outdo myself in SQ.


----------



## Silent One

We're pulling for you to out do
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




yourself!!! My turn will be coming up shortly... by the way, doe that amp belong to "X?"


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I can see the Big Russian at the back, with great difficulty as I can't get past the chocolate!!!!
> 
> This is very distracting Clayton and tempting and I am on a diet and I can't have any sweets........I am not allowed.


 

 If I stop eating maybe I will lose weight before I come back.   It is hard with L baking cookies and stuff all the time that is why I
  send it to you Stavros


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well if you keep to your diet, in a year when Ultra- and I come knocking on your door in Greece, you'll be able to eat all the sweets you want, then. Look out!
> 
> We must all plan ahead! Glenn, you too!


 
  When do you guys plan on going to Greece ?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> We're pulling for you to out do
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 When you are ready I will let you know what one sounds best to me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> When you are ready I will let you know what one sounds best to me.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> When do you guys plan on going to Greece ?


 
   
  For the last 3 years I've been planning on going to Limassol in Cyprus to visit a friend and I didn't even get there yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  But who knows, a fine collection of amps and chocolates might seduce me. No seriously, I don't really know of any plans of going to Athens, Clayton and Stavros might know more about it.
   

   
  I think I'm done!
  For now.
  Must make more room first.


----------



## modca

Woooooa Ultra what a beautiful room you have there!!!!! I think you have really seen things that we human will never be able to see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Glenn let us know how is the SQ of your new 45 amp.


----------



## rosgr63

Our plan is for next summer so plenty time to get things organised.
   
  Very nice room indeed Ultra.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Our plan is for next summer so plenty time to get things organised.
> 
> Very nice room indeed Ultra.


 

 Just want to know if I can squeeze it in after my other trip.


----------



## rosgr63

Well the plan is for you, C, U and me, so you better!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





modca said:


> Woooooa Ultra what a beautiful room you have there!!!!! I think you have really seen things that we human will never be able to see


 
   
  Thanks Modca. My girlfriend is an interior decorator so I can't just do what I want, it has to look good as well. She's especially allergic to cables and wrong colors 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Very nice room indeed Ultra.


 
   
  Thank you. I like it too, now only if I had double the room and yours and Clayton's amps. Not that I'm greedy or anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Well the plan is for you, C, U and me, so you better!!!!!!


 
   
  Us four and no tube or amp talk? We wouldn't last for 10 minutes


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thanks Modca. My girlfriend is an interior decorator so I can't just do what I want, it has to look good as well. She's especially allergic to cables and wrong colors


 
  Then your girlfriend will break out in hives when she sees my place.


----------



## Ultrainferno

We'll send her shopping or something


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Us four and no tube or amp talk? We wouldn't last for *10 minutes*


 
   
  That long? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Then your girlfriend will break out in hives when she sees my place.


 
   
  Or my pit..........


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I think I'm done!
> For now.
> Must make more room first.


 




   
  Which LP hangs, by the way?


----------



## rosgr63

Silent Night.......


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Which LP hangs, by the way?


 
   
  I'd have to check 
  The number of PMs I get for the headphone stands. incredible


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'd have to check
> The number of PMs I get for the headphone stands. incredible


 
   
  I can believe it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 They are nicely laid out on display.


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'd have to check
> The number of PMs I get for the headphone stands. incredible


 
  They are pretty glossy white stands.  Catches one's eye when they look at the photo.


----------



## rosgr63

A new addition to spice up my beautiful GR Super 10 has just arrived today.
   
  A dear friend and valuable member of the Head-Fi community sent me a beautiful tube clock radio.
   
  I feel so privileged and spoiled.


----------



## Ultrainferno

A Nixie kind of clock? Cool!


----------



## Silent One

Great! Admittedly though, I looked over your post a few times and could not locate the pix.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> A new addition to spice up my beautiful GR Super 10 has just arrived today.
> 
> A dear friend and valuable member of the Head-Fi community sent me a beautiful tube clock radio.
> 
> I feel so privileged and spoiled.


 
  Pics or it didin't happen!


----------



## rosgr63

Soon, very soon!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

What EF80 tubes are supposed to be "best"? I have some telefunken but was planing on getting some Philips, Miniwatt and Mullard. At 4€ a piece NOS, they're so cheap (+ matching of course)
   
  I use them as a substitute for 6SJ7 with an adapter in my LaFigaro OTL 339.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> What EF80 tubes are supposed to be "best"? I have some telefunken but was planing on getting some Philips, Miniwatt and Mullard. At 4€ a piece NOS, they're so cheap (+ matching of course)
> 
> I use them as a substitute for 6SJ7 with an adapter in my LaFigaro OTL 339.


 

 Ever think of getting a adapter to use some C3g tubes in place of the 6SJ7?
  I know you have some of these around the house. Not sure how they will sound in that circuit
  but they sound great in the circuit I use.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Would that be an adapter that I can get on ebay? (link) or would that be adapters you would have to make Glenn? I'm willing to try that


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Would that be an adapter that I can get on ebay? (link) or would that be adapters you would have to make Glenn? I'm willing to try that


 

 I probably would have to make it not many company's use this tube except a few extreme high end company's.
  And me.
  And I don't know why they are not expensive.
  Really the C3 tubes are Jules that haven't been discovered yet.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Could you maybe make me two 6SJ7 (original tube is 6J4P) to C3G adapters and send them to Clayton? he's coming to me in a week or 2/3. It would save a lot on shipping. If yes I'll send you a pm!
   
  (I've used 6J4P, 5693, 6SJ7 and EF80 with the adapter. the amp uses 2 of these and 2 6AS7G tubes)


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Could you maybe make me two 6SJ7 (original tube is 6J4P) to C3G adapters and send them to Clayton? he's coming to me in a week or 2/3. It would save a lot on shipping. If yes I'll send you a pm!
> 
> (I've used 6J4P, 5693, 6SJ7 and EF80 with the adapter. the amp uses 2 of these and 2 6AS7G tubes)


 

 The 6J4P is pin for pin the same as a 6SJ7?  I will look and see if I have the parts Let you know tomorrow or after I get off work
  But that is pretty late there.
   
  I am thinking about making a OTL using a C3g as a driver for 6AS7s but it may have to much gain for a OTL.
  After I make the next couple of amps People are waiting for I will try this.


----------



## Ultrainferno

The 6SJ7 and 5693 are direct replacements, no adapter. The 6J4P to EF80 adapter looks like this:

   

   

   

   
  That's about all I can tell you I'm afraid...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Oh and in case you don't read the Woo thread:
   
  I just found and bought a new batch of NOS 2399/5998 for a new group buy (10 to 20 tubes)! I'll post more info once available!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Oh and in case you don't read the Woo thread:
> I just found and bought a new batch of NOS 2399/5998 for a new group buy (10 to 20 tubes)! I'll post more info once available!


 

 Hey Ultra-, do you think I'd like the 2399/5998 in my WA22?
  I've got something up my sleeve but I'm not telling.


----------



## rosgr63

That's very naughty Clayton...........


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey Ultra-, do you think I'd like the 2399/5998 in my WA22?
> I've got something up my sleeve but I'm not telling.


 
   
  We all know he's a bit naughty 
  Well that's hard to tell if you would like them. How is the WA22s soundsig? + Do you like the 5998 sound?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> We all know he's a bit naughty
> Well that's hard to tell if you would like them. How is the WA22s soundsig? + Do you like the 5998 sound?


 
   
  Actually I am a bit naughty and nice. Go ask Santa. That's why I only get half of what I ask for at Christmas. And I don't ask for much. There has to be a good balance. 
   
  I like the RCA 5AS7 very much. I've never heard the 5998. Maybe I'll just skip the 5998. No use buying something I haven't heard. What I haven't heard I haven't missed.


----------



## Ultrainferno

So what was you evil plan C?


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> * No use buying something I haven't heard. What I haven't heard I haven't missed.*


 
   
  I like it Clayton, I really do, I should follow your sound advise!
   
  One day...........


----------



## Clayton SF

Evil? U-, The Plan is not evil--never was. Nor is it naughty, even though some may claim that I am. It is more nice than naughty. And you'll find out soon. I'll continue to offer up clues to see if you or anyone can guess The Plan.


----------



## rosgr63

I can think of many different things but need a clue, a hint.
   
  Glass or food or gear?


----------



## Ultrainferno

You are building one huge amp out of all your amps? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  What are you doing up btw?!
   
  Glenn will be building me some new adapters for my OTL amp. I just hope the C3G doesn't blow up my precious 339 (I'm slightly exaggerating)


----------



## Clayton SF

I want one of those. You better nail yours down.

I'm up because I was thinking about chocolates and marshmallows and couldn't go to sleep.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Marshmellows with chocolate. Some how I have a feeling I am to blame for that


----------



## Clayton SF

No problem. It is a very nice thought while trying to go to sleep. Maybe I should have tried a shot of whiskey instead.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton, start counting cookies and see how far you get.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You are building one huge amp out of all your amps?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It won't blow up your amp the worst thing that can happen is that it don't sound good in that circuit.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I can think of many different things but need a clue, a hint.
> Glass or food or gear?


 
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton, start counting cookies and see how far you get.


 
   
  ZZzzzzzzz. That worked. Now I'm up again--3 hours later. I feel refreshed!
  But after counting cookies (I think I got up to 2,985) I now need to change my T-shirt--it is covered with cookie crumbs!


----------



## Silent One

I wonder what the closet tube the number 2985 is?


----------



## rosgr63

Marconi CV2985
   
  Clayton you are lucky I stopped at 38142


----------



## Clayton SF

Ah, it is Saturday and I am kicking back and listening to music.
  I'll clean my room later but first I need to relax and get a few things off of my chest.
  RCA and Mullard.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> RCA and Mullard.


 
   
  Is this a project tip for Stavros and myself? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Awesome scale C. or what's it called.


----------



## Clayton SF

All shall be revealed in time. Along with the clues. In 27 days.
  Unless you get what I got before I get there. Get it?
  Well you'll get it anyway.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> All shall be revealed in time. Along with the clues. In 27 days.
> Unless you get what I got before I get there. Get it?
> Well you'll get it anyway.


 
   
  I'm starting to get it. You didn't do anything crazy now, did you!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm starting to get it. You didn't do anything crazy now, did you!


 
  No.
  Then again.
  But I have to give clues that are obscure otherwise you won't be surprised by my insanity. (That doesn't sound right).
  Is it T time yet?
  I need to make some T.


----------



## Ultrainferno

It's B time here!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah, it is Saturday and I am kicking back and listening to music.
> I'll clean my room later but first I need to relax and get a few things off of my chest.
> RCA and Mullard.


 
   
  That makes for a great weekend shot! In between:
   
  Counting tubes @ the foot of your bed
  Counting down to your overseas departure
  Counting the maximum/minimum clues needed to be effective 
   
  Perhaps, you could advise me on efficient low-powered speakers. Did you get a chance to hear your Zu's around town before purchase? Or like many of us do online, point your Rat Mouse and click "Purchase." Or "Buy it now!"


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Marconi CV2985
> 
> Clayton you are lucky I stopped at 38142


 
   
  45s?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That makes for a great weekend shot! In between:
> 
> Counting tubes @ the foot of your bed
> Counting down to your overseas departure
> ...


 

 I've fogotten who recommended those Zu speakers. But someone said, a few years ago, that the introduction price was $1K for the pair so I bought them outright--sound, unheard.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Awesome scale C. or what's it called.


 
  Right now it is called an empty candy dish.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Won't be empty for long


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Won't be empty for long


 

 Yes. I'd give the shirt off my back for more.


----------



## Eee Pee

Great shot Clayton.
   
  B time here too.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Great shot Clayton.  B time here too.


 
   
  Thanks, Eee Pee.
  B time here too!
  I'm doing second best and a cheer to Ultrainferno's great place of residence.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Weiss beer! Good choice.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Weiss beer! Good choice.


 

 Darn! They were out of Blue Moon so I got Sierra Nevada instead.
  Also, not having the proper beer mug to serve it in I poured into a white wine glass.
  To your health--everyone!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Lovely pic C!
  I'm out.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Lovely pic C!
> I'm out.


 

 Thanks. Out like a light or out of beer or out on the town?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> All shall be revealed in time. Along with the clues. In 27 days.
> Unless you get what I got before I get there. Get it?
> Well you'll get it anyway.


 

 Common Clayton clues that is easy
   
  Stavros always tells me I am naughty but nice
   
  #1 what did you do last year
  #2 What did I just do in Greece
  #3 Who else would do this.


----------



## dminches

This is what I see when I sit on my throne:
   

   
   
  Wide angle:
   

   
  Equipment:


----------



## Silent One

Absolutely wonderful, dminches!


----------



## longbowbbs

David, that is a sweet room. I love the 5A's!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> 45s?


 
   
  Special 45's, RCA Radiotron VT-52 with Nickel Plates.
   
   
  Very nice listening room David!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow awesome room!


----------



## ValentinHogea

ultrainferno said:


> I'd have to check
> The number of PMs I get for the headphone stands. incredible




Limited edition my friend!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Common Clayton clues that is easy
> 
> Stavros always tells me I am naughty but nice
> 
> ...


 
   
  1# Clayton came to Europe
  2# You came to Europe
  3# A whole bunch of other Americans
   




   
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> This is what I see when I sit on my throne:


 
   
  Absolutely impressive David. Very nice, must be a pleasure to be in there.
   
  Quote: 





valentinhogea said:


> Limited edition my friend!


 
   
  Yes! Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I'll get back to you on Essen, this week, I promise.


----------



## Clayton SF

dminches. I could fit my whole apartment in that beautiful room of yours!


----------



## dminches

Clayton, it is funny you said that.  Living in the suburbs has its advantages, mainly that space is cheaper.  One of my co-workers lives in NYC and recently got a new apartment, following her divorce, which was 450 sq ft.  I felt bad when she asked how big my room was and I said "540 sq ft."
   
  But, I have to drive everywhere while she, and you, can walk.  However, I can play music as loud as I want and my neighbors won't complain.


----------



## Clayton SF

dminches, I got invited a few times to Pixar Studios in Emeryville for private screenings of The Incredibles and Cars before it was released to movie houses. When the theater lights were out and the movies were playing you could see projected on the ceiling, clouds float by and the the night sky full of stars and an occasional shooting star. It was like you were watching the movie outdoors. It wasn't distracting at all.
   
  I think the nighttime constellations projected on your theater ceiling would be great!


----------



## Frank I

David that rooms look great. Who did the room treatments . I know you built the room from scratch. I can't wait to see it.


----------



## wolfetan44

I may be jumping in on a Glenn amp
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



. Either that or a WA7.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'd go for the Glenn amp


----------



## Clayton SF

Yep. Go for the GlennAmp OTL. It will make your HD650s sound like they're supposed to. Open and alive! Trust me.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yep. Go for the GlennAmp OTL. It will make your HD650s sound like they're supposed to. Open and alive! Trust me.


 
  What about HD800?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> What about HD800?


 
  Sorry, but I have no idea.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Thing is, I need to have it be small.


----------



## Ultrainferno

HD800 needs an otl. It is great with the crack also, but i prefer the hd700


----------



## 2359glenn

Clayton's OTL amp is 7.5inches wide by 12 inches long not that big
  You just don't want to put anything over it the 6AS7s & 3DG4 put off allot of heat.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> I may be jumping in on a Glenn amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  It's like choosing between a Mustang or a Mini............


----------



## Eee Pee

Both of those cars have their place, yeah?
   
  Not sure the 800s NEEDS an OTL.  What makes you say that?
   
  800 vs 700 is a tough one.  Having both, I can go either way.


----------



## wolfetan44

rosgr63 said:


> wolfetan44 said:
> 
> 
> > I may be jumping in on a Glenn amp
> ...


Frank I says the WA7 is very, very good though.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Both of those cars have their place, yeah?
> 
> Not sure the 800s NEEDS an OTL.  What makes you say that?
> 
> 800 vs 700 is a tough one.  Having both, I can go either way.


 
   
  Of course it doesn't _need _it. But every single Sennheiser I have tried performed better on an OTL amp than on a OT or ss amp. Let's call it personal preference.
  I can understand people preferring the 800 but for me, I'll have the 700 over the 800 for everything but classical music.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I can understand people preferring the 800 but for me, I'll have the 700 over the 800 for everything but classical music.


 
   
  I think we're a small group.  
   
  (700s on my head now, whilst the 800 are over there in the corner...)


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> dminches, I got invited a few times to Pixar Studios in Emeryville for private screenings of The Incredibles and Cars before it was released to movie houses. When the theater lights were out and the movies were playing you could see projected on the ceiling, clouds float by and the the night sky full of stars and an occasional shooting star. It was like you were watching the movie outdoors. It wasn't distracting at all.
> 
> I think the nighttime constellations projected on your theater ceiling would be great!


 
   
  Clayton, how did the project the stars?  I would be into doing that!


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





frank i said:


> David that rooms look great. Who did the room treatments . I know you built the room from scratch. I can't wait to see it.


 
   
   Jeff Hedback from Hedback Designed Acoustics.  He was great to work with and he did a great job.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Clayton, how did the project the stars?  I would be into doing that!


 
  I'm not sure how Pixar did it. Also, when they dimmed the lights and just before the movie came on, you could hear crickets in surround sound at about the same volume as you'd hear it at night. Then the stars and clouds were projected on the ceiling. And the clouds moved very slowly across the "sky."
   
  This might be fun: http://www.amazon.com/Laser-Stars-Indoor-Light-Show/dp/B000VBNIP2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1375044664&sr=8-3&keywords=stars+projector


----------



## Clayton SF

How do I love thee?
 Let me count the Logos.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'm not sure how Pixar did it. Also, when they dimmed the lights and just before the movie came on, you could hear crickets in surround sound at about the same volume as you'd hear it at night. Then the stars and clouds were projected on the ceiling. And the clouds moved very slowly across the "sky."
> 
> This might be fun: http://www.amazon.com/Laser-Stars-Indoor-Light-Show/dp/B000VBNIP2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1375044664&sr=8-3&keywords=stars+projector


 
  Oh come now... If you are going to project the stars, let's do it right!
   
  http://planetariums.zeiss.com/planetariums/en_de/products/products/skymaster-velvet-hybrid-planetarium.html


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> Oh come now... If you are going to project the stars, let's do it right!
> 
> http://planetariums.zeiss.com/planetariums/en_de/products/products/skymaster-velvet-hybrid-planetarium.html


 
  LOL. You are so right! WANT!


----------



## Silent One

Silent notes made audible... _and visible._
   
   
   
  My wild weekend way out West, saw me wheel my Sansui G-22000 into the hotel room fresh from the repair shop!
   

   
   
   
  And add three new pieces to my audio rig. Shindo Laboratory - a pair of F2a Sinhonia monoblocks and Aurieges-MM preamp.
   

   

   
   
  Will sit down with Glenn (virtually speaking) in a month or two and assess what my system needs and have him fill in the blanks.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Frank I says the WA7 is very, very good though.


 
   
  You should listen to Frank I, then.
   
  SO very nice gear, I hope you're up and running soon.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have, but luckily, I will be able to hear the WA7 on 8/10


----------



## Clayton SF

So Frank I prefers the WA7 over the Glenn Amp OTL? I haven't heard the WA7.


----------



## Errymoose

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah, it is Saturday and I am kicking back and listening to music.
> I'll clean my room later but first I need to relax and get a few things off of my chest.
> RCA and Mullard.


 
  I really love the look of those Zu speakers... really want to get a pair when I have a bit more room than for just standmounts.
   
  Are those Glenn monoblocks powering them?


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton, I can't sleep at night, these Mullard and RCA keep appearing in front of me.
  I have the _ __Jeanne d'Arc_ syndrome, I hear voices the tubes are calling me.
  Is it serious, anything to worry about?
   
  The RCA Sofia traces look so good......... 
   
  BTW what's that lovely cow doing on the floor?


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So Frank I prefers the WA7 over the Glenn Amp OTL? I haven't heard the WA7.


 
  He never said that.


----------



## Ultrainferno

On the topic of WA7 vs Glenn OTL, I have heard neither but in term of looks the WA7 is "Pretty Woman" while the GlennOTL is "Mad Max". Or Richard Simmons vs Dolph Lundgren.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How do I love thee?
> Let me count the Logos.


 
   
  A few weeks ago I made some new t-shirts with tube logos on spreadshirt.com. They refused to print the RCA logo and the Mullard logo and so I ended up with a Telefunken T-shirt only. I do have the logos in png format if anyone else is interested


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> And add three new pieces to my audio rig. Shindo Laboratory - a pair of F2a Sinhonia monoblocks and Aurieges-MM preamp.


 
   
  Nice stuff. care to explain why these units exactly and what their specs are?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Ultrainferno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Nice stuff. care to explain why these units exactly and what their specs are?


 
   
  Just flagged the SPAM above, our Bistro deserves 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





better. 
   
  Anyway, after a long and difficult struggle this year to even set foot inside the listening room, things finally came together. Initially, I saved up for and sought WA5 monoblocks. But Jack (WooAudio) was unable to _spec_ the amp to my requirements. Technically possible but my special request would have been disruptive to business and profit. Also too complicated without being tested. It had to do with the way the transformer is tapped for the K1K Output on the WA5 stereo amp. 
   
  Then turned my attention to getting some Yamamoto kit which I long admired. Before the weekend I realized I reached my savings goal and was ready to buy the Yammo. I  had also long admired Shindo gears but could never afford them. Periodically, I'd follow Matt's adventures from Pitch Perfect Audio, who specializes in Shindo kit. I was on the website looking around prior to ordering my A-09S from the Importer for Yamamoto. 
   
  Suddenly in that instance, I decided to engage Matt and just have a conversation about the
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 kits. WELL, we see how that went. I ended up forgoing other personal purchases to make it work but I am happy. Years ago, I wanted the Shindo 300B but still can't afford it. The F2a is my crawl before I walk phase. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Push-Pull design @ 40 wpc; each block weighs 40 lbs. Can't remember the signal-to-noise ration, cross-talk, noise floor ect, though I've seen it a few times. At some point year-end I hope to pair some small and very efficient speakers. In the mean time, gonna listen via headphones.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> He never said that.


 
  Oops sorry. I misunderstood. Never mind. 
  Frank I owns the WA5 (lucky guy) so if he says that the WA7 is _very, very good_, then that's a very, very good recommendation!
   
  Quote: 





errymoose said:


> I really love the look of those Zu speakers... really want to get a pair when I have a bit more room than for just standmounts.
> Are those Glenn monoblocks powering them?


 
  Yes, Glenn's monoblocks are powering the Zu Omens. They are very efficient speakers and they sound absolutely wonderful.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  He's also the reviewer for Dagogo, so he is a pro reviewer.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton make sure you check New Cool Collective's latest release Chin Chin before you fly to Amsterdam.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton make sure you check New Cool Collective's latest release Chin Chin before you fly to Amsterdam.


 
   
  Okay thanks. I shall download it tonight. Perhaps it will be great to listen to while inflight, drinking and relaxing. You know, those international flights serve free liquor and good stuff too. Especially on KLM, Royal Dutch Airlines. They serve beers and all sorts of spirits and the flight attendant comes around with a bottle of cognac after they serve dinner. Fasten you seat belts! My flight is almost 11 hours so I get served dinner and breakfast and they have an all-you-can eat candy cart that you can help yourself to during the flight. They should have a cookie cart.


----------



## rosgr63

I am going to be good and show restraint!
   
  Varig, Singapore and Thai used to be very good with excellent food selection.
   
  KLM is mean on European routes you get very little.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am going to be good and show restraint!
> Varig, Singapore and Thai used to be very good with excellent food selection.
> KLM is mean on European routes you get very little.


 
  I have flown Varig, and I also have heard great praise for Singapore and Thai both professionally and culinary. I do remember that when I ordered a shot of whiskey on Varig, they gave me a large 12 oz. drinking glass full of whiskey.


----------



## Ultrainferno

And you kept the glass, right?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> And you kept the glass, right?


 
   
  I tossed it on the floor. Old tradition, right Stavros?
   
  The last time I flew the flight attendant told this guy sitting in front of me (not me) who ordered 2 vodka tonics for himself that he would only serve him the second drink only after he finished the first drink. So the guy shot it and asked for another. Hah!
   
  I forgot what happened after that--I blanked out.


----------



## rosgr63

Right Clayton.
   
  Don't forget the nice juicy stakes!
   
  Many carriers have an ice cream trolley too!
   
  Talking about Brazil, has anybody tried the Brasilia 6SN7M?


----------



## Errymoose

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes, Glenn's monoblocks are powering the Zu Omens. They are very efficient speakers and they sound absolutely wonderful.


 
  Gorgeous... too scared to ask how much they cost for fear I'll want to think about saving for them


----------



## Ultrainferno

Time for some music! I showed clayton yesterday already, he seemed to like her too
   




   
  Too bad I'm not 20 years younger


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





errymoose said:


> Gorgeous... too scared to ask how much they cost for fear I'll want to think about saving for them


 
   
  You may be pleasantly surprised....... Glenn builds amps because he loves the hobby, not to make a killing.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You may be pleasantly surprised....... Glenn builds amps because he loves the hobby, not to make a killing.


 
   
  I figured he was talking about the speakers


----------



## rosgr63

He can easily find out from the Zu Audio website.
   
  Then again Ultra it could be the heat and new arrivals that are affecting my thinking.
   
  Today I received a fantastic tube selection from a dear friend and Head-Fier, my Glenn amps can't wait to try them.
  I am so grateful.


----------



## Ultrainferno

What did you get?


----------



## rosgr63

A nice selection of the very rare black flat plates 6BL7 and some very nice Tung-Sol 5AU4 and Sylvania 5V3 rectifiers, all in nice original boxes!!!!!!
   
  A tube addicts paradise!
   
  How many more days Clayton?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> A nice selection of the very rare black flat plates 6BL7 and some very nice Tung-Sol 5AU4 and Sylvania 5V3 rectifiers, all in nice original boxes!!!!!!
> 
> A tube addicts paradise!
> 
> How many more days Clayton?


 
  15 days until I board my KLM flight 606 to Amsterdam.
  24 days until I board a bullet train from Schiphol to Brussels.
  Ultra- said that he was planning a big welcome party at the train station with beer-guzzling dancing beer maids and a custom-made Ferrari limousine to pick me up and whisk me away.


----------



## daigo

We would need Clayton SF in lederhosen pictures to complete that scene.


----------



## rosgr63

Ultra can I be Clayton's chauffeur please?
   
  I promise to be as good as I can.
  Won't even open my mouth to say anything else but "Welcome Sir" and "Thank You Sir"


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ultra- said that he was planning a big welcome party at the train station with beer-guzzling dancing beer maids and a custom-made Ferrari limousine to pick me up and whisk me away.


 
   
  However C, I can not promise to be on time o welcome you if she's there
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Ultra can I be Clayton's chauffeur please?


 
   
  Sure thing, I also still need a luggage guy. Any volunteers?


----------



## rosgr63

Me, but I will politely ask the "pint" girl to assist.


----------



## Headampbro

Woow, HB Hefeweizen absolutely yummy!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

The C3G to 6SJ7 adapters from Glenn have arrived at Clayton's. Thanks Glenn, and Clayton of course. They look good. 22 days left till I can use them.
  I'm very curious how a 6AS7G OTL will sound when driven by C3Gs


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice adapters.
   
  It won't be easy, you'll need two C3G for each 6SN7, so Glenn will have to make a tween adapter.


----------



## Ultrainferno

It replaces 6SJ7 not 6SN7


----------



## rosgr63

Many  OTL's based on 6AS7G's use a double triode driver like the 6SN7.
  Unless you have something else in mind.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Stavros, the Lafigaro 339 uses two 6AS7 power tubes and 2 6J4P input tubes. The 6SJ7/5693 are direct replacements. I alreadu use EF80 with an adapter as input tube and now we want to try the C3G as replacement. There are no 6SN7 involved at all.

Ok?


----------



## 2359glenn

Stavros when I get caught up I will make you a twin C3g adapter that will work
  in your OTL amps.
   
  First I have to find one more 6BL7 flat plate. I have three when I get four I will send them
  and you will have all six and be able to try them.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Stavros, the Lafigaro 339 uses two 6AS7 power tubes and 2 6J4P input tubes. The 6SJ7/5693 are direct replacements. I alreadu use EF80 with an adapter as input tube and now we want to try the C3G as replacement. There are no 6SN7 involved at all.
> 
> Ok?


 
   
  Fine because the amp is using two 6SJ7 which are like one 6SN7.
  The 6SJ7 is 1/2 a 6SN7.
  Glenn's OTL's, SinglePower and others that use one 6SN7 driver need a tween type adapter.
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Stavros when I get caught up I will make you a twin C3g adapter that will work
> in your OTL amps.
> 
> First I have to find one more 6BL7 flat plate. I have three when I get four I will send them
> and you will have all six and be able to try them.


 
   
  Glenn, our friend sent me 2 beautiful flat plate 6BL7's amongst the other nice tubes so I am fine.
  I am very pleased to know you are helping me cure my addiction by introducing me to more tubes!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Fine because the amp is using two 6SJ7 which are like one 6SN7.
> The 6SJ7 is 1/2 a 6SN7.
> Glenn's OTL's, SinglePower and others that use one 6SN7 driver need a tween type adapter.
> 
> ...


 

 But you need six flat plate 6BL7s to see how they sound. I got 3 we need one more to make 6.
  You know I am crazy who else would make a amp like that. It is not bad for your addiction
  just lets you try different flavors of sound the 6BL7 was one of them.
   
  By the way I like getting spanked and so does L


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> By the way I like getting spanked and so does L


 
   
  Boy, and people call me naughty!
   
  Don't resist it. You need more tubes for your brand *spanking *new Glenn Amp!
   
  I'm taking pictures tonight of my Glenn Monomonos. They now have adapters for the RK60, just like Ultra-'s, except I have two of them. I like to follow Ultra-'s lead with Glenn pulling us all along like the obligatory caboose! All aboard!
   
  Stavros--keep in mind: Tube and Food. Tube and Food. A great combo for a great life. And right now, I want a gigantic hamburger.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Soon everyone will be wanting C3G tubes for his 6AS7G OTL! 

C, let us know what you think of the 1641 in your monos


----------



## Silent One

I want the Siemens C3g for the forthcoming 300B monos...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> C, let us know what you think of the 1641 in your monos


 
   
  The RK60 has clarity clarity clarity. It has extended sparkle. The lows are not quite there yet but I can tell they will be. I installed 2 brand new Raytheon RK60s so they have to burn in. But I like it the best so far. The Russian 5U4G black plates is also very good but the RK60 seems to have a slight edge over it.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Boy, and people call me naughty!
> 
> Don't resist it. You need more tubes for your brand *spanking *new Glenn Amp!
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Clayton please help, I'll only think and talk food, nothing else.
  I'll be good.
  I'll try to be good........


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton please help, I'll only think and talk food, nothing else.
> I'll be good.
> I'll try to be good........


 
  Last night I was wondering if I could cook some shrimp over the 300B tubes but I didn't.


----------



## rosgr63

Check out the AVVT 32B SL..................they can do the shrimp I think.
   
  But now I am confused food + tubes????
   
  That's way too much for me, I am trying to keep things simple.
   
  Bendix 6080
   
  6336A
   
  7236
   
  They all get hot, maybe we can use them too............


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Check out the AVVT 32B SL..................they can do the shrimp I think.
> But now I am confused food + tubes????
> They all get hot, maybe we can use them too............


 
   
  So when we show up on your doorstep in Greece, we'll have to clear your picnic table of all your amps and tubes and just eat our way through Greece's food pleasures. With an occasional beverage or three.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So when we show up on your doorstep in Greece, we'll have to clear your picnic table of all your amps and tubes and just eat our way through Greece's food pleasures. With an occasional beverage or three.


 
  Clayton there are plenty of food pleasures in Greece.
  When are we going ? I know ware he lives.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Clayton there are plenty of food pleasures in Greece.
> When are we going ? I know ware he lives.


 
  Stavros won't tell me where he lives because he's afraid that I will mail him the entire NOS tube inventory of Europe and beyond.
   
  Usually the months of July and August are the best for me. Work-wise and financially.
   
  I have to start to work out my arms so that I can have strong arms to hold on to those floaters that Stavros has marked for us. They should manufacture a plastic floater in the shape of a vacuum tube like the 300B, complete with blow-up black-plate inserts. Hah!
   
  I flew a camera drone over to Stavros's house and took this photo of his basement.


----------



## 2359glenn

That picture is close to what it is.
  I already have tickets all I have to do is change dates.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Check out the AVVT 32B SL..................they can do the shrimp I think.
> 
> But now I am confused food + tubes????
> 
> ...


 
  How about food IN a tube?
   

   
  My son and I helping ourselves to Bratwurst and Hot Dogs on the Deck. Cookies for desert...Naturally!


----------



## 2359glenn

Nothing like tube steak


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Nothing like tube steak


 
  Direct heated are preferred...


----------



## 2359glenn

Direct heated on charcoal
   
  I like ware you live in the boonies


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> How about food IN a tube?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice.
  And a perfectly matched pair, too!
  You're pros and you definitely know what you're doing eating.


----------



## Clayton SF

Here is a lineup of Glenn Adpaters being put to good use on a Decware phono amp and Glenn Mono Blocks. Nice. Thank you Glenn!
  RK-60 to 5U4 adapters:

   
  596 to 5U4 adapger (foreground, on a Decware ZP3 phono stage):


----------



## Skylab

Stavros I have a PILE of 6BL7's. Say the word and I will send you as many as you need.


----------



## Seamaster

Hello everyone, I have raised again from the dungeons. I am still going school, work, and having a baby boy at the same time, pretty crazy. The Seattle meet at BottleHead headquarter on 7/23/13 brought me back to life. I think it is the time for me to do something about my Stax project again. I have heard Eddie Current Electra with Stax 009 at meet with the amp tubed on the warm side, the sound was good but I was not very impressed. I think the 009 was under amped. My current gears are simple: McIntosh MA6900 integrated amp, Meridian G08, and a pair of Tannoy Turnberry. I took Glenn's advice had local McIntosh repairman lowered value of resistors and increased damping factors on the headamp side of MA6900, it made a big difference, thanks Glenn. So far, I do not miss my WA22 but I miss the tube sound. With kids sleeping all the time, I can't use my speakers, I am back to headphone again


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi Seamaster. Your black WA22 was the very first WA22 that I had set my eyes upon which swayed me to get one. I still own my silver WA22 from 2009. Missed your presence; it is good to see you again. And how is your beautiful wife doing?


----------



## rosgr63

Eric, that's a great photo!
   
Now I feel hungry and just had breakfast an hour ago!
   
Thanks Rob, that's very kind of you.
   
  Clayton you are supposed to chastise the team and keep an eye on us, you are the team leader!!!!!!
  Instead you are giving me crazy ideas with the nice photos you post.
   
BTW most of my tubes live in cartons and aluminium cases they are not on display, I couldn't bare that.
They are in boxes original or new with the test data and date recorded.
  The 300B's and PX4's live with me in my wardrobes, I couldn't part with them.
   
I have a photo inventory on my computer.
   
Next step to complete the picture is the lunatic asylum!
   
*Edit: *Hello Seamaster, nice to have you back.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hi Seamaster. Your black WA22 was the very first WA22 that I had set my eyes upon which swayed me to get one. I still own my silver WA22 from 2009. Missed your presence; it is good to see you again. And how is your beautiful wife doing?


 
  My wife is doing her wife thing taking care of the baby, she likes my gears and she does listen to music sometimes. She also bought some new CDs for me (good quality mastered). I feel even my WA22 lacked the ultimated transparency, attack, and dynamic. I was still looking untill I tried Stax 007 Mk1 one time, I was hooked.
  Here are my kids:


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> *Edit: *Hello Seamaster, nice to have you back.


 
  Thank you, did I missed the party?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton you are supposed to chastise the team and keep an eye on us, you are the team leader!!!!!!  Instead you are giving me crazy ideas with the nice photos you post.
> 
> BTW most of my tubes live in cartons and aluminium cases they are not on display, I couldn't bare that.
> They are in boxes original or new with the test data and date recorded.
> ...


 
   
  Team leader? Moi? Eu? Ik? Εγώ? Eek! Well thank you but I can't even lead myself to water let alone drink it. WHAT? I think that Ultra- is more of a team leader. He leads me astray. In a good way  (j/k U-!)
   
  A photo inventory--now why didn't I think of that? All of my tubes are in boxes and crates and plastic containers stored in closets and on shelves. My glass nest eggs.


----------



## rosgr63

Beautiful kids SeamasterI
  I love your daughter's smile!!!!!
   
  Clayton, on second thoughts I feel that neither you are me are good as leaders, no way!
  Glenn is no good at that neither, we always get into trouble........
   
  We'll have to let Ultra take the lead..........


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> My wife is doing her wife thing taking care of the baby, she likes my gears and she does listen to music sometimes. She also bought some new CDs for me (good quality mastered). I feel even my WA22 lacked the ultimated transparency, attack, and dynamic. I was still looking untill I tried Stax 007 Mk1 one time, I was hooked.
> Here are my kids:


 
   




   
  Outstanding, Seamaster and welcome back! I know Gil would never let you get too far gone!


----------



## Clayton SF

Ultra- is the group leader! Ssshhhh. He's probably just waking up. This I know.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Outstanding, Seamaster and welcome back! I know Gil would never let you get too far gone!


 
  Thanks, It was a fun meet:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/674344/seattle-head-fi-meet-at-bottleheadquarters-7-27-13-impression


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Team leader? Moi? Eu? Ik? Εγώ? Eek! Well thank you but I can't even lead myself to water let alone drink it. WHAT? I think that Ultra- is more of a team leader. He leads me astray. In a good way  (j/k U-!)


 
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton, on second thoughts I feel that neither you are me are good as leaders, no way!
> Glenn is no good at that neither, we always get into trouble........
> 
> We'll have to let Ultra take the lead..........


 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ultra- is the group leader! Ssshhhh. He's probably just waking up. This I know.


 
   
   
  I go to bed and 19 posts later this is what happens. Luckily for you guys I am excellent in coordinating what others have to do, as long as I don't have to do it myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  In this case it probably is more "what you guys can not do" though. 
  Challenge accepted!


----------



## rosgr63

Good morning Ultra,
   
  I suggest you start reading on the subject so you can be prepared
   
http://liontamersguide.blogspot.be/


----------



## Errymoose

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> In this case it probably is more "what you guys can not do" though.


 
  As long as it's not spending a lot of money on more audio gear, I will probably go along with it...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I go to bed and 19 posts later this is what happens. Luckily for you guys I am excellent in coordinating what others have to do, as long as I don't have to do it myself
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Did you factor in sleep time when I'm in Europe?
   
  Ultra-, Looks like you'll be leading the Greek Flotilla next year. You're the Captain; 2359glenn is the Chief Engineer; rosgr63 will be the navigator--he knows the seas and actually where we would be heading; and I'll be the Boatswain (I just like that word) the ship's officer in charge of equipment and crew (what crew?). I think that Stavros can do double-duty and be Chief cook--at least on one of the days.
   
  No time for audio gear while trying to find pirate booty! Aaaaarrrr! And speak of pirate booty....
   
  Glenn, what are you building?


----------



## rosgr63

I like my cook duty.
   
  One of the most important jobs on a ship.
  If the cook is good the crew is happy, if not everybody fights about everything with everybody.
   
  The cook doubles up as the entertainment officer too.


----------



## 2359glenn

Are you bringing Girls!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Did you factor in sleep time when I'm in Europe?
> 
> Ultra-, Looks like you'll be leading the Greek Flotilla next year. You're the Captain; 2359glenn is the Chief Engineer; rosgr63 will be the navigator--he knows the seas and actually where we would be heading; and I'll be the Boatswain (I just like that word) the ship's officer in charge of equipment and crew (what crew?). I think that Stavros can do double-duty and be Chief cook--at least on one of the days.
> 
> ...


 

 I am building a #45 tube driven by a C3g for Xcalibur255


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Are you bringing Girls!!!!!!!!!!!


 
   
  We are sailors on the Greek Seas. We'll be looking for mermaids on the way to Chios.
Style: Belgian IPA
   

   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I am building a #45 tube driven by a C3g for Xcalibur255


 
   
  The C3g Club!
  Go Glenn. Get 'em Xcalibur255!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Are you bringing Girls!!!!!!!!!!!


 
   
   

   
   
  One way to find out!!!!!!
   
  Eric, if you are reading please help I am losing the crew, do you have any tips to keep the discipline?
   
  Glenn you don't read these posts just concentrate on the amp!
   
  Think Raytheon #45's Box Plates..........


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton we think the same...................we are both vey naughty!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Think Raytheon #45's Box Plates..........
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: One%20heck%20of%20a%20plate!


 
  Those are beautiful plates!
   
  I think this will be the first time that I am tempted to order tubes before I have the amp for them.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton, don't........check the VT-52 version first!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton, don't........check the VT-52 version first!!!!!!


 
  That is cooler than cool. And hotter than flaming saganaki!
  I've never seen a logo stamped on a plate before. Ooooo....
  WANT!


----------



## rosgr63

You are a bad boy now...........
   
  Think of your holidays, the chocolates, the sweets, the nice food, the nice drink..................


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Those are beautiful plates!
> 
> I think this will be the first time that I am tempted to order tubes before I have the amp for them.


 

 It won't take long to whip up an amp for these driven by a C3g
  the amp would take a # 45 , VT52- 6.3 volt and VT52- 7 volt and a 2A3 or 6A3 or 6B4 with adapter
  Remember only 1.5 Watts unless using the 2A3 , 6A3 or 6B4 then 3 watts.
  I should stop mentioning the C3g before other people start using it and the price goes up it really is a Jewel
  that not many know about.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton, don't........check the VT-52 version first!!!!!!


 
  There's more than one version?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Think Raytheon #45's Box Plates..........


 
  You just had to post this picture Mister!  I do believe this is THE 45 Globe to have, and is the only NOS 45 tube I really covet at this point.  Being so incredibly rare and expensive I doubt I will ever have the chance.  It's probably for the best, if I got a pair I wouldn't be able to convince myself to actually use them anyway.
   
  I keep reading all over the place that the EML 45 is truly the best sounding 45 tube you can get.  Some of the EML stuff is overhyped I think but I see widespread agreement that their 45 tube is better than any NOS tube.  So, next year I will probably grab myself a pair and not pursue NOS tubes anymore.


----------



## 2359glenn

Yea but the EML is not as pretty and won't last as long.
  Probably cost the same.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You just had to post this picture Mister!  I do believe this is THE 45 Globe to have, and is the only NOS 45 tube I really covet at this point.  Being so incredibly rare and expensive I doubt I will ever have the chance.  It's probably for the best, if I got a pair I wouldn't be able to convince myself to actually use them anyway.
> 
> I keep reading all over the place that the EML 45 is truly the best sounding 45 tube you can get.  Some of the EML stuff is overhyped I think but I see widespread agreement that their 45 tube is better than any NOS tube.  So, next year I will probably grab myself a pair and not pursue NOS tubes anymore.


 

 I'm new to the 2A3 and 300B tubes. These tubes seem similar in that they look the same but are obviously not the same nor are they interchangeable. Can anyone tell me why they would prefer one over the other? The 6B4 is new to me. An octal, yes?


----------



## Seamaster

I am thinking 2A3 is great, also for availability too. Not big fan of 300B


----------



## Seamaster

I missed the party here, what C3g (6.3v), C3o (6.3v), and C3m (20v) sound like compare to, let's say other 9-pin tubes?


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton, you are becoming a tube addict............that's too bad.
   
  Xcalibur, I bet many people haven't tried the nice globe #45's and compare the EML to the ST bottles.
   
  There is also a ST bottle version of the Raytheon box plates and a different globe Raytheon with box plates for reference I'll post pictures here:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/477288/dht-addicts
   
*SO sorry for this........*


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton, you are becoming a tube addict............that's too bad.


 
  Whew. Oh, thank goodness. I thought I was just an amp addict.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton you have a bad influence on me, please show restraint!
   
  The 6A3 is a 2A3 with a 6.3 heater voltage, easier to build an amp for it as it draws 1A compared to 2.5A of the 2A3.
   
  Glenn the VT-52 are very unique as they were designed to run at either 6.3V or 7V.
  Used in aircraft radios, they run at idle speed when the aircraft was on the apron at 6.3V and then at full/flying speed at 7V.


----------



## 2359glenn

I can make the amp have a switch 2.5 - 6.3 then have a pot to adjust 6 to 7 volt.
  This way you can here the sound at 6.3 - 7 and in between and see what sounds best.
  I can make some crazy good amplifiers if the person wants to spend the money
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  i


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> I missed the party here, what C3g (6.3v), C3o (6.3v), and C3m (20v) sound like compare to, let's say other 9-pin tubes?


 

 Hello It is good to here from you again!
  And it was nice to see the pix of your children enjoy them while they are little mine are 23 and 25 now.
   
  I don't think there is any 9 pin tube that is in the same league as the C3 tubes.  They are Loctal tubes.
  Not only do these tubes sound great they can drive the miller capacitance of a 300b a 6SN7 cannot drive a 300B properly.
  I know that I am going to regret saying that.  You said you don't like the sound of a 300B driven by what??
  There are only a couple of high end amp company's me and a few DIY people using this beauty of a tube
  so they are still cheep and available.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'm new to the 2A3 and 300B tubes. These tubes seem similar in that they look the same but are obviously not the same nor are they interchangeable. Can anyone tell me why they would prefer one over the other? The 6B4 is new to me. An octal, yes?


 

 Clayton the 300B and 2A3 have no direct relationship other than they are both directly heated triodes.  The 2A3 is a really old tube it started out being basically two 45s stuffed together into the same glass this was the initial solution when people were wanting more power than the 45 could deliver.  Back in those days there were not many types of tubes in existence yet the 45 was used very widely in radios and in the very first movie theaters that had sound.  Once they started going indirectly heated the types of tubes started to explode.
   
  Western Electric designed the 300B for pretty much the exact purpose that it is still being used for today interestingly enough.  The 2A3 I believe was invented by RCA and the original monoplate 2A3s are the most coveted tube of that type.  I'm not sure who invented the 45 I know it evolved from one of the very first radio tubes ever invented and is itself one of the oldest radio tubes in existence.  The generalization is that the 2A3 and the 45 sound the same but I've read a lot of talk that disagrees with this particularly in terms of tonal balance.  The 45 is known for transparency and extremely good imaging where as the 2A3 is a bit more spotlighty with richer tone colors.  It is a fact that the 2A3 has higher distortion than the 45 though, this part of it is readily proven by measurements.
   
  Just to clarify what Stavros said, we technically have 2A3, 6A3 and 6B4G.  2A3 = 2.5V UX4 4-pin base.  6A3 = 6.3V UX4 4-pin base.  6B4G = 6.3V 8-pin octal base.  I have heard the 6B4G myself they are really nice sounding tubes.  How they compare to the 300B I cannot say since I don't know any 300B gear.   Yet.  Hopefully this fall.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The 2A3 is a really old tube it started out being basically two 45s stuffed together into the same glass


 
  Mmmmm, like a double burger.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Clayton the 300B and 2A3 have no direct relationship other than they are both directly heated triodes.  The 2A3 is a really old tube it started out being basically two 45s stuffed together into the same glass this was the initial solution when people were wanting more power than the 45 could deliver.  Back in those days there were not many types of tubes in existence yet the 45 was used very widely in radios and in the very first movie theaters that had sound.  Once they started going indirectly heated the types of tubes started to explode.
> 
> Western Electric designed the 300B for pretty much the exact purpose that it is still being used for today interestingly enough.  The 2A3 I believe was invented by RCA and the original monoplate 2A3s are the most coveted tube of that type.  I'm not sure who invented the 45 I know it evolved from one of the very first radio tubes ever invented and is itself one of the oldest radio tubes in existence.  The generalization is that the 2A3 and the 45 sound the same but I've read a lot of talk that disagrees with this particularly in terms of tonal balance.  The 45 is known for transparency and extremely good imaging where as the 2A3 is a bit more spotlighty with richer tone colors.  It is a fact that the 2A3 has higher distortion than the 45 though, this part of it is readily proven by measurements.
> 
> Just to clarify what Stavros said, we technically have 2A3, 6A3 and 6B4G.  2A3 = 2.5V UX4 4-pin base.  6A3 = 6.3V UX4 4-pin base.  6B4G = 6.3V 8-pin octal base.  I have heard the 6B4G myself they are really nice sounding tubes.  How they compare to the 300B I cannot say since I don't know any 300B gear.   Yet.  Hopefully this fall.


 
  Xcalibur255. Very informative. Thank you for that walk through tube history. I am completely fascinated by its evolution but even more fascinated by the ones that have never changed that we still use today!
   
  Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Mmmmm, like a double burger.


 
  FOOD!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think the 2A3 is still the most popular and "standard" version of the tube, the other variants were attempts to adapt the tube to slightly different roles over the years.  All of the new production 2A3 tubes adhere to the original design calling for a 2.5V heater and UX-4 base.
   
  The DHT amp Glenn is making right now is capable of running either the 45 or the 2A3 so I will be able to compare them.  Might not be a very fair comparison though since I have a few nice NOS 45s but I really have no immediate plans to buy any NOS 2A3s.  The fact that they are absurdly expensive has something to do with it.  I was going to grab some Psvane Hifi series 2A3s just to see if the higher power output is something I can hear in the music, these tubes are less than $100 a pair.  My intention for the amp was to primarily use it as a 45 amp, there is something about this tube that I find greatly appealing.   The way people talk about it stirs a certain romance.


----------



## Clayton SF

Which rectifier will you use with the DHT amp? Will you be able to switch between 3v and 5v like his OTL?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Hello It is good to here from you again!
> And it was nice to see the pix of your children enjoy them while they are little mine are 23 and 25 now.
> 
> I don't think there is any 9 pin tube that is in the same league as the C3 tubes.  They are Loctal tubes.
> ...


 
  Sorry for MIA, such as life. I am still holding your air variable capacitors hostage but I very carefully bubble warped them in tube boxes I had. I am extremely careful with the plates. I studied the C3x family tubes, they seems are impressive tubes. That knowledge is way beyond me. I just grabbed some as we speak, ingnoring my wallet files complain ( I am on furlongh, ha ha). What the different application difference between C3g and C3m?


----------



## Seamaster

Xcalibur255, thank for the write-up, I prefer 2A3 tonally, I am very big on tonal balance, that is the reason I am not digging EC amps, ha ha
   
  Clayton, are you going to strip the metal casing on your C3g? Looks better that way.
   
  I know, I know, one has to be crazy and enthusiastic enough to joint Glenn's club.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think the 2A3 is still the most popular and "standard" version of the tube, the other variants were attempts to adapt the tube to slightly different roles over the years.  All of the new production 2A3 tubes adhere to the original design calling for a 2.5V heater and UX-4 base.
> 
> The DHT amp Glenn is making right now is capable of running either the 45 or the 2A3 so I will be able to compare them.  Might not be a very fair comparison though since I have a few nice NOS 45s but I really have no immediate plans to buy any NOS 2A3s.  The fact that they are absurdly expensive has something to do with it.  I was going to grab some Psvane Hifi series 2A3s just to see if the higher power output is something I can hear in the music, these tubes are less than $100 a pair.  My intention for the amp was to primarily use it as a 45 amp, there is something about this tube that I find greatly appealing.   The way people talk about it stirs a certain romance.


 
  I just came up from my hole making this amp.
  A 2A3 is really two 45s paralleled in one tube if you look at a NOS 2A3 you can see the two 45 plates next to each other.
  Except for the RCA mono plate. A 6A3 is a UX-4 base tube and exactly the same as a 2A3 except for the filament voltage.
  Stavros is right that the 6.3 volt tube is much easier to build a amp around and easier on the DC filament power supply
  The amp is going to have a constant 2.5 volts on the heater the B+ and bias voltage will stay the same cathode current will
  double with the 2A3.The 45-2A3 switch is going to series or parallel the primary of the output transformer. this will make a much lower impedance for the 2A3 anode.
  I do think that the 45 will have enough power for most headphones and normal listening.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Sorry for MIA, such as life. I am still holding your air variable capacitors hostage but I very carefully bubble warped them in tube boxes I had. I am extremely careful with the plates. I studied the C3x family tubes, they seems are impressive tubes. That knowledge is way beyond me. I just grabbed some as we speak, ingnoring my wallet files complain ( I am on furlongh, ha ha). What the different application difference between C3g and C3m?


 

 In my application as a driver I can use the C3g or C3m just different heater voltage.
  Usually I use the C3g 6.3 volt it is easy to steal some 6.3 volts the other tubes are using.
  Yamamoto uses the C3m in a 1.5 watt headphone amp and as a driver in there 300B
  They remove the metal shield that I disagree with I think they look fine the way they are
  And are supposed to have the shield.
  Don't worry about those air capacitors when you are ready you can have them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Which rectifier will you use with the DHT amp? Will you be able to switch between 3v and 5v like his OTL?


 

 6BY5G dual diode TV damper tube in a 2 tube full wave bridge configuration.  There are no substitutable tubes, this is it.  This rectifier configuration should be high performance and low noise, and it prevents me from spending money on expensive 5U4G tubes.  The amp could be re-designed to run off a single 5U4G if that's what a person wanted, but the way Glenn explained the power supply design to me the full wave bridge enables a very elegant circuit that should sound great.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> 6BY5G dual diode TV damper tube in a 2 tube full wave bridge configuration.


 
  Another GlennAmp original design. Digging up tubes and giving them another chance at the glowing life in modern times.
   
  I'd say: Coolamundo Glennasaurus Maxiumus.


----------



## Seamaster

Glenn, I am still pursuing my Stax energizer project. So far I have all the major parts collected. I also downloaded Front Panel Express software to cut the amp case that was custom made for me. The original idea to have adjustable air variable capacitors controls is out of window as I would not find a suitable casing for them. Also, after I listened my Airbow with eddie current electra at Seattle meet, I think they need tube power to match them, just like Stax 009. The two tonally are similar. What tube do you recommend?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Another GlennAmp original design. Digging up tubes and giving them another chance at the glowing life in modern times.
> 
> I'd say: Coolamundo Glennasaurus Maxiumus.


 

 The 6by5 is pretty well known in DIY circles actually, it just has limited uses because of it's fairly low voltage ratings.  It is well suited to this application though.  I chose this tube specifically because I didn't want to have tube rolling options on the rectifier side.  It puts a stop to OCD behavior I am not good at controlling and guarantees that the B+ voltage is at the design spec.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The 6by5 is pretty well known in DIY circles actually, it just has limited uses because of it's fairly low voltage ratings.  It is well suited to this application though.  I chose this tube specifically because I didn't want to have tube rolling options on the rectifier side.  It puts a stop to OCD behavior I am not good at controlling and guarantees that the B+ voltage is at the design spec.


 
  Thanks. That's how one learns. I had never heard of the 6by5. Me new. Me novice. Me n()()b. But loving every LEARNING moment.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks. That's how one learns. I had never heard of the 6by5. Me new. Me novice. Me n()()b. But loving every LEARNING moment.


 
  I'm a noob too.  Just because I've spent too many nights reading DIY forums doesn't mean I actually know anything about this stuff for real.
   
  Though, I seem to get lucky when it comes to stumbling across good  tube types to use in projects.  They always start out as hunches or gut feelings, such as with the 5998 mod, and end up working out really well.  I'm thankful for that.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm a noob too.  Just because I've spent too many nights reading DIY forums doesn't mean I actually know anything about this stuff for real.
> 
> Though, I seem to get lucky when it comes to stumbling across good  tube types to use in projects.  They always start out as hunches or gut feelings, such as with the 5998 mod, and end up working out really well.  I'm thankful for that.


 

 Yes! The greatest hunch for me, and I am sure that you will agree, is recognizing Glenn's incredible sense of sound and sensibilities when he builds his masterpieces.


----------



## Seamaster

Yes, share the knowledge


----------



## rosgr63

Xcalibur you are the hound and a true frontier tube explorer.
  I have learned a lot from you and still do.
  But foremost you are a good friend and very modest.
   
  Glenn is our dream catcher, we dream about an amp and he makes it happen.
   
  De Forest (who eventually were taken over by RCA) were one of the type #45 forerunners with their Audion 445 tubes.
  Some 45 makers were:
  Arcturus with the 145, RCA Radiotron with UX-245, Raytheon with EX-245, RCA Cunningham with CX-345, De Forest with 445, and after that the 45 marked tubes.
   
  Enough about tubes, Clayton can I get back to Ice Cream talk now?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote:  





> Enough about tubes, Clayton can I get back to Ice Cream talk now?


 
   
  I'm allergic to milk, let's not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Clayton and myself just got a couple of these as it was a good deal


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Glenn, I am still pursuing my Stax energizer project. So far I have all the major parts collected. I also downloaded Front Panel Express software to cut the amp case that was custom made for me. The original idea to have adjustable air variable capacitors controls is out of window as I would not find a suitable casing for them. Also, after I listened my Airbow with eddie current electra at Seattle meet, I think they need tube power to match them, just like Stax 009. The two tonally are similar. What tube do you recommend?


 

 Do you want a amp that is going to drive the energizer or do you want a amp that can direct drive the headphones?
  Also for a amp that can direct drive headphones do you have a balanced source?  Or does the amp need phase inverter.
  If the amp is to drive the headphones directly it will have to use tubes that handle high voltage.
  That leaves the EL34 or 300B in audio tubes.  And it will have to use four of them.


----------



## Clayton SF

I wonder if that number 54 stamp means that it was produced in 1954?


----------



## Ultrainferno

No it is the quality check stamp from russia


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> No it is the quality check stamp from russia


 
  Silly me. I didn't see the date stamp. I need glasses. Wait, I already wear glasses. Then I need to eat more carrots.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton you need a large breakfast.
   
  All this tube and amp talk has given me a headache!!!
   
  Glenn please go easy will ya???
   
  Or else the entertainment official will assign you port duty and you'll stay on board..........


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm allergic to milk, let's not


 
  But you eat cheese and ragout which is made of milk and cream.
   
  I think Captain Glenn is "cooking" up something in the ship's galley.
   
παγωτό καϊμάκι


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> But you eat cheese and ragout which is made of milk and cream.


 
   
  Lactose free cream. I don't drink milk 
  "*OTK*" means that the item was manufactured to military specifications. It is similar to American MIL-STD standards. All my older Russian tubes have the OTK stamp


----------



## Clayton SF

Then no burgers and shakes for you, young man. 
  Okay, maybe a burger and frites 
   
  I wonder what this 55 means on my tube.


----------



## Ultrainferno

What tube is it? What brand, what else is on the tube?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> What tube is it? What brand, what else is on the tube?


 

 Sorry. I was talking about the tube that we were talking about.
  It is my Russian 5u4 black plates. The same ones you got except that mine has a 55 stamped on it.
   
  XII (5U3C) 55


----------



## Ultrainferno

I will have to look that up 
  You still have those candies? I eat half a kilo of those in one week. (And I wonder why I am getting fatter. I gained 1 kilo a year since I was 18)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I will have to look that up
> You still have those candies? I eat half a kilo of those in one week. (And I wonder why I am getting fatter. I gained 1 kilo a year since I was 18)


 

 I just have that one candy as a reminder of how good it is. I will eat when I get more. So right now it reminds me of your kindness and my sweet tooth!
   
  I want to get a Norah Jones LP or CD. Does anyone have a recommendation? I want to listen to a complete album of hers on the Glenn Amp OTL today. Right now I am listening to Andrew Bird.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton I just had frozen yoghurt with honey and pecans for desert.
  Very nice indeed.
   
  The εκμεκ καιμακι is my favourite ice cream and uses Mastiha flavour from Chios.
  Glenn tried it in a non ice cream version at a cafe overlooking Marathon lake.
   
  And the code XII 55 is the date code: December 1955.
   
*Have I ever shown you my experimental 1579?*


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton I just had frozen yoghurt with honey and pecans for desert.
> Very nice indeed.
> 
> The εκμεκ καιμακι is my favourite ice cream and uses Mastiha flavour from Chios.
> ...


 

 Coooooool. My Russian black-plate 5U3C are from 1955. Love it. I want more tubes... more, more, more. (Oh, sorry.) The captain will throw me in the brig for that comment.
   
  Show me your experimental 1579, please.


----------



## rosgr63

Just for you Clayton, the engraved word means Experimental


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Just for you Clayton, the engraved word means Experimental


 
  Here are some of my tubes.


----------



## rosgr63

Please Stop it!
   
  Tube talk is over, or else the addiction will just get worst....
   
  Very nice tubes Clayton, what are the first three on top?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> (partial quote)
> _"I can make some crazy good amplifiers if the person wants to spend the money"_


 
   
  Last night, I tossed and turned. Dead on the heels of the audio sirens and following their every move. I was taken to an unfamiliar place. But when I came to, in a hushed tone I uttered to myself _"I know this place!"_
   
  So, here we are, 2359glenn-studio... what a place! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You know I want a wicked build, what have you got in mind to try next?!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Here are some of my tubes.


 
   
  Very nice. What's the glass with the drum inside about?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Very nice. What's the glass with the drum inside about?


 

 I have no idea but it could be a rectifier. I've seen some with the coffee-can drum.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I have no idea but it could be a rectifier. I've seen some with the coffee-can drum.


 
   
  It's _catching_... and made me look twice, definitely interesting looking.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Clayton you need a large breakfast.
> 
> All this tube and amp talk has given me a headache!!!
> 
> ...


 
  OK entertainment official I will stay on board with the girls !


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Very nice. What's the glass with the drum inside about?


 

 The one on the left is a glow discharge voltage regulator.
   
  The one in the middle is also a glow discharge regulator
   
  And the one on the right is a ballast tube used to drop line voltage in series connected tube radios.


----------



## Clayton SF

Captain, if you don't pay attention, I will power down your amp!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Do you want a amp that is going to drive the energizer or do you want a amp that can direct drive the headphones?
> Also for a amp that can direct drive headphones do you have a balanced source?  Or does the amp need phase inverter.
> If the amp is to drive the headphones directly it will have to use tubes that handle high voltage.
> That leaves the EL34 or 300B in audio tubes.  And it will have to use four of them.


 
  My plan is to use existing amp (MA6900) to drive Stax with a energizer, not a dedicated Stax amp. The speaker side is just a bypass without any sonic added to it, then flip a switch is to the headphone side. The reason for tube is: a method of tonal control, or could use cap/resistor rolling, or the original idea of air variable caps for treble/bass. I think i am going to have a few different Stax headphones with different tonal characteristics down the road, some may need to tame/boost the treble, some may need bass boost/tame, you know. Flexibility is one of the goals. I already ordered transformers that only suit for energizer use, I think.
   
  Here are the custom made case (a pair) with hand rubbed hardwood, made in Washington State (support domestic economy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).



   
   
  The Tango Transformers


   

   
  The variable air caps are sure beautiful to eyes


----------



## rosgr63

Nice, very nice seamaster.
  Is it a FPE case?
   
  Clayton, Ultra is not responding well to his new position, we'll have to think again about a new captain.
  Glenn will be permanently assigned to port duty.................all alone, nobody to help.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *rosgr63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Clayton, Ultra is not responding well to his new position, we'll have to think again about a new captain.
> Glenn will be permanently assigned to port duty.................all alone, nobody to help.



  
 Wait, don't we get the weekends off? IPad and pool don't mix guys


----------



## Clayton SF

Slip your iPad into a ZipLoc bag.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> My plan is to use existing amp (MA6900) to drive Stax with a energizer, not a dedicated Stax amp. The speaker side is just a bypass without any sonic added to it, then flip a switch is to the headphone side. The reason for tube is: a method of tonal control, or could use cap/resistor rolling, or the original idea of air variable caps for treble/bass. I think i am going to have a few different Stax headphones with different tonal characteristics down the road, some may need to tame/boost the treble, some may need bass boost/tame, you know. Flexibility is one of the goals. I already ordered transformers that only suit for energizer use, I think.
> 
> Here are the custom made case (a pair) with hand rubbed hardwood, made in Washington State (support domestic economy
> 
> ...


 

 Why two cases ??
  The transformers are tube amp push pull output transformers
  That you are going to use in reverse .
  We might be able to mount the variable capacitors on insulating plastic in that case and put on plastic knobs.


----------



## Seamaster

yes, they are push pull transforners. i thought that are what we need for a energizer. the second case is for next project, ha ha.

Als


Hey sailers, are we steaming ahead to the RMMF in October this year?


----------



## Seamaster

the casees were made by a local talent who makes copy of wilson audio speakers


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> yes, they are push pull transforners. i thought that are what we need for a energizer. the second case is for next project, ha ha.
> 
> Als
> 
> ...


 

 Ok let me know when you are ready to build this project.
  We will have to discuss what to do to change the tone if we can't mount the capacitors.


----------



## rosgr63

Where is the RMMF going to be?
  Does it have a port for our "Love Boat" to birth?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Where is the RMMF going to be?
> Does it have a port for our "Love Boat" to birth?


 

 RMAF: _*Rocky Mountain Audio Fest.*_ (October 11-13, 2013)
  RMMF: _*Rocky Mountain Music Festival.*_ (August 11, 2013)
   
  Both are landlocked. We need to jump ship to get there.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Where is the RMMF going to be?
> Does it have a port for our "Love Boat" to birth?


 
  It will be in Denver at the Tech Center which is just a bit south of downtown. I am a member of the CAS.
   
http://audiofest.net/new/


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks John, excuse my ignorance what does CAS stand for?
   
*EDIT:*
  Sorry I missed your post Clayton, I like the photo.
   
  We have to think of something


----------



## rosgr63

Eric the captain's position is vacant, are you interested?


----------



## john57

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Thanks John, excuse my ignorance what does CAS stand for?


 
  Colorado Audio Society which is the  sponsor for the RMAF as shown in the previous link for the home page of RMAF. Also CamJam sponsored by Head-Fi will also be there.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/669567/2013-canjam-rmaf-oct-11-13-2013-one-of-the-worlds-finest-headphone-audio-shows
   
  The RMAF and CamJam is one of the largest audio shows in the world that is geared more for the consumer a[size=11pt]udience.[/size]


----------



## Clayton SF

I guess my hearing is normal. That very last tone drove me nuts. It came from everywhere.


----------



## Seamaster

I did mean RMAF: _*Rocky Mountain Audio Fest.*_ (October 11-13, 2013), sorry.
   
  I know I am going 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  By the way: Does anyone know where to buy or custom make some acrylic cover/box (thick and solid) for the air caps?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Ok let me know when you are ready to build this project.
> We will have to discuss what to do to change the tone if we can't mount the capacitors.


 
  I am think do ship the parts to you next month by end of September (my time is flexible, it depends on your time frame), I do have to do the case cut-out at front panel express before that. This weekend I will have some design ideas.
   
  Glenn are you going to RMAF: _*Rocky Mountain Audio Fest.*_ (October 11-13, 2013)?


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Eric the captain's position is vacant, are you interested?



Captain, no. pastry taster Yes....


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Captain, no. pastry taster Yes....


 
   
  We need somebody disciplined like you.........please?
   
  We'll bring nice gear to keep you happy.
  I'll make sure you get the nicest food!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> I am think do ship the parts to you next month by end of September (my time is flexible, it depends on your time frame), I do have to do the case cut-out at front panel express before that. This weekend I will have some design ideas.
> 
> Glenn are you going to RMAF: _*Rocky Mountain Audio Fest.*_ (October 11-13, 2013)?


 

 I know you wanted to have those capacitors visible but can you put them in the other box.  just drill a over sized hole for the shaft
  and mount them on plastic or nylon spacers and use plastic Knobs?
   
  I would like to go to the RMAF but I already have tickets to go back to Greece in November.
   And have taken time off work really can't take more time off work.
  Maybe I can take off and fly in on Friday and leave on Sunday Have to see the cost to book a flight and room.
  And see if I can swing it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

It's  9.34 AM and no one has reported in for duty yet??!
  Oh no, wait, I got fired. Carry on ...


----------



## rosgr63

Busy cooking some 7193 's......................


----------



## Clayton SF

I was swimming with the dolphins. One named GZ37 and the other called EZ81. I call them *Cheesy* and *Easy* for short.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Funny one C.
  I'm thinking of getting a nice little amp for at work, sub $300 to use with my Cypherlabs CLAS and the Stoner Acoustics UD100 Dac. SS or hidden tubes.
  It'll be used to drive the 300Ohm HD650, the 250Ohm Beyer T90, the Beyer COP at 16ohm and an Orthodynamic HE-400.
   
  Problem is I hardly ever looked at amps in that price range, any tips?


----------



## Clayton SF

Ultra- ... http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20058833-47.html


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just remembered I got an X3 amp a couple of months ago, I probably should use that one. I forgot all about it 
  How come you're up btw? You'll be tired at work tomorrow.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Busy cooking some 7193 's......................


 

 Ware did you get adapters for those beauties.
  You are the only one other then me that comes up with crazy tubes.


----------



## rosgr63

Crazy Chief and Crazy Cook on our "*Love Audio Boat"*


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Crazy Chief and Crazy Cook on our "*Love Audio Boat"*


 

 Crazy Crew too?
   
  Greek Fleet ready to set sail.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I am already riding shotgun over another group of Scouts at camp this week....Nothing like sitting in your tent posting on Head-Fi!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Crazy Crew too?
> 
> Greek Fleet ready to set sail.


 
   
  Nice photo!
  We have to have some sane people on board, otherwise..........
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I am already riding shotgun over another group of Scouts at camp this week....Nothing like sitting in your tent posting on Head-Fi!


 
   
  Way too cool Eric!!!!
  When I went camping we had nothing like that!
   
  BTW where is your portable head gear?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I am already riding shotgun over another group of Scouts at camp this week....Nothing like sitting in your tent posting on Head-Fi!


 
  Cool!
  You're the Communications Officer. Welcome aboard.
  Hey Ultra-, break out the grog.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Cool!
> You're the Communications Officer. Welcome aboard.
> Hey Ultra-, break out the grog.


 
   
  I'm not serving unless I get a new position


----------



## 2359glenn

How did I get assigned you port duty anyway and have to stay on board ?


----------



## longbowbbs

Naturally I have some nice portable gear while I am camping...
   

  Beyer DT-1350's, ACS Custom T1 CIEM's, Etymotic M3's, the Fostex HP-P1 and IPC 7G (Lossless files of course!) and the HyperMac 222 watt hour portable battery. Simple stuff for roughing it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

In my days we had to go camping in army tents and we had to sing ourselves to sleep cause tents got flooded. 

Your kind of camping I would like! C, how about we go camping in stead of staying at my place?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> In my days we had to go camping in army tents and we had to sing ourselves to sleep cause tents got flooded.
> Your kind of camping I would like! C, how about we go camping in stead of staying at my place?


 
  I like that. Just as long as we are 5 feet from your swimming pool.
  We need a tent to sleep in and a tent to keep the ice bucket and drinks.
  We can replenish the ice and drinks by going on a minute hike to your kitchen.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm not serving unless I get a new position


 
  Okay. Who's running this ship? (I love saying that.)
  Who's Captain? We're in deep doo doo if we can't remember. Grog?
  Ultra-, I think we need an Entertainment Officer.


----------



## rosgr63

Come on Clayton I am the cook and Entertainment officer, remember?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Naturally I have some nice portable gear while I am camping...
> 
> 
> Beyer DT-1350's, ACS Custom T1 CIEM's, Etymotic M3's, the Fostex HP-P1 and IPC 7G (Lossless files of course!) and the HyperMac 222 watt hour portable battery. Simple stuff for roughing it.


 
  Some very spoiled head-fier
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> In my days we had to go camping in army tents and we had to sing ourselves to sleep cause tents got flooded.


 
  Been there, done that too.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Ok, I'll be the illegal supplies manager then, being from this part of Europe


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> How did I get assigned you port duty anyway and have to stay on board ?


 
   
   
  Because when everybody goes ashore you can have lots of fun on board with a helping hand from your friends.............
   
  Now I am teaching you all my tricks!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Come on Clayton I am the cook and Entertainment officer, remember?


 
  Sorry. Too much Grog.
  109 days. (3 months and 17 days)


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Sorry. Too much Grog.
> 109 days. (3 months and 17 days)


 

 I am counting down on a calendar on the wall in front of my desk.
  Crossing out each day and L is doing the same thing in her office


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I am counting down on a calendar on the wall in front of my desk.
> Crossing out each day and L is doing the same thing in her office


 
   
  Me too.
  9 days until I board KLM 606 to AMS.
  18 days until Ultrainferno's swimming pool and wet bar.
  I also get to listen to your _*Ultra*_Amp.


----------



## rosgr63

I have an countdown widget on my computer!!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey Ultra-, I fixed the ship's onboard watercooler.


----------



## Ultrainferno

HAHAHA. Excellent idea C. You get a bonus at the end of the trip


----------



## Ultrainferno

Oh and if anyone asks us why we need all that alcohol, we just use it to clean the tubes, alright?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Oh and if anyone asks us why we need all that alcohol, we just use it to clean the tubes, alright?


 
  Yes, those tube pins need a lot of cleaning with alcohol to get the cheese, tomato, and basil off of them. They're called Margherita Tubes.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Spoiled? I left the HD800's and Tube gear at home!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey Ultra-, I fixed the ship's onboard watercooler.


 
  Finally no ice cubes to water it down!


----------



## rosgr63

*M/V "Love Audio Boat"*
   
*Crew List*
   
*Master                *SO
*Chief Officer       *Eric
*2nd Mate*
*3rd Mate*
   
*Radio Officer       *Ultra
   
*Chief Engineer    *Glenn
*2nd Engineer*
*3rd Engineer*
*4th Engineer*
   
*Steward               *Clayton
*Cook*
*Assistant Cook*
*Messboy*
*Messboy*
   
*Bosun*
*AB*
*AB*
*AB*
*AB*
   
*Oiler*
*Oiler*
*Oiler*
*Wiper*                  Stavros


----------



## Ultrainferno

hahaha, what does a radio officer do exactly? I can get drunk, right?


----------



## rosgr63

He's friendly with the grease monkey (me) so he can get some special moonshine!!!!!!
   
  Any volunteers for the other positions?


----------



## longbowbbs

Chief Officer? I guess I can wear my Scout shirt for the uniform!


----------



## rosgr63

Actually Eric, it's the toughest job on board a ship.
  Your cap looks fantastic sure you can wear your Scout Shirt as well.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ultra-, Radio Officer.
   
  I wonder what tubes your radio uses.
   
  Hey, Glenn, what tubes are you going to use to build Ultra-'s communications radio?
   
  And yes, Ultra-, if you can pick up the mic with one hand to radio ship to shore, then you can have a cold beverage in the other hand. On the other hand, if there is no ice on board, then you'll have to use our special JW water cooler.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> *M/V "Love Audio Boat"*


 
   
  Great... I'll make sure my avatars are packed


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Naturally I have some nice portable gear while I am camping...
> 
> 
> Beyer DT-1350's, ACS Custom T1 CIEM's, Etymotic M3's, the Fostex HP-P1 and IPC 7G (Lossless files of course!) and the HyperMac 222 watt hour portable battery. Simple stuff for roughing it.


 
   





 Head-Fi knows no bounds?!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  LOL! The Girls are all welcome!


----------



## rosgr63

We are running a tight ship, no women allowed at sea!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  BTW your gear looks excellent.


----------



## Clayton SF

What in the world is Ultra- doing up there?
  He's stringing a wire between the masts to get better radio reception.
  We're out of drink to make grog and he is trying to radio an order before a mutiny starts to brew.
  Aye, a brew.
  Aye, a brew.
   
  Ultra-, get down here!


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton you are laughing now, but your job is tough too, so be prepared!
   
  You're in charge of food and drink, so we better not run out.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> hahaha, what does a radio officer do exactly? I can get drunk, right?


 
  Call 911 or 110 for oversea when people got drunk.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I know you wanted to have those capacitors visible but can you put them in the other box.  just drill a over sized hole for the shaft
> and mount them on plastic or nylon spacers and use plastic Knobs?
> 
> I would like to go to the RMAF but I already have tickets to go back to Greece in November.
> ...


 
  What pf value range and voltage rating do we need here for the Air Caps. I am thinking to get a different pair, the one you send me are very big, I should ordered a bigger case if I know they are that big. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I will cover the room, if you don't mind two guys in a same room, of course two beds
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but don't worry I am straight, I got wife and kids to proof it!!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> *M/V "Love Audio Boat"*
> 
> *Crew List*
> 
> ...


 
  Do you guys need a navigator? I think I am pretty good at this, because I made to the U.S. from China in a container


----------



## GrindingThud

I'll take bosun on 3rd shift.....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Do you guys need a navigator? I think I am pretty good at this, because I made to the U.S. from China in a container


 
   
  Your username... _well earned._


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Do you guys need a navigator? I think I am pretty good at this, because I made to the U.S. from China in a container


 
  Of course we need a navigator.
   
*Navigator Seamaster*
   
  How befitting of your name.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Gee, I don't even get to be a mess boy.  Guess people can find me out back swabbing the poop deck.


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Do you guys need a navigator? I think I am pretty good at this, because I made to the U.S. from China in a container


 
   
  Wait, did you really?  That must have been a harrowing journey.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Gee, I don't even get to be a mess boy.  Guess people can find me out back swabbing the poop deck.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





daigo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If true, I shall hold two drinks in his honour on Friday. Middle of the day, I'll raise a bowl of Jasmine Dragon Phoenix Pearls in recognition of the feat. Then later, in the middle of the night, a glass of Champagne in recognition that he did so, safely. 
   
  And continued on to become a great citizen and head-fier.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





silent one said:


> And continued on to become a great citizen and head-fier.


 
  and served the country 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  See mom, no GPS ... I was going to india!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Do you guys need a navigator? I think I am pretty good at this, because I made to the U.S. from China in a container


 
   
  OK Seamaster, you are going to be our 2rd Officer, it's a good post.
   
   
  Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I'll take bosun on 3rd shift.....


 
   
  Fine, you'll be the bosun, which is a tough post, there is no shift for the bosun, he's always standing by.
   
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Gee, I don't even get to be a mess boy.  Guess people can find me out back swabbing the poop deck.


 
   
  I was waiting for you to choose, what about 2nd Engineer?


----------



## rosgr63

*M/V "Love Audio Boat"*
   
*Crew List*
   
*Master                *SO
*Chief Officer       *Eric
*2nd Mate            *Seamaster
*3rd Mate*
   
*Radio Officer       *Ultra
   
*Chief Engineer    *Glenn
*2nd Engineer      *Xcalibur
*3rd Engineer*
*4th Engineer*
   
*Steward               *Clayton
*Cook*
*Assistant Cook*
*Messboy*
*Messboy*
   
*Bosun*                Grinding Thud
*AB*
*AB*
*AB*
*AB*
   
*Oiler*
*Oiler*
*Oiler*
*Wiper*                  Stavros


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> What pf value range and voltage rating do we need here for the Air Caps. I am thinking to get a different pair, the one you send me are very big, I should ordered a bigger case if I know they are that big.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The ones I gave you are 1500pf each section is 500 pf I was going to parallel the three sections. To find more of these in large capacitance
  is going to be hard. These were used in the tuning of radios but today's digital radios use varactor diodes to do the tuning.
  The only place is E-Bay maybe some NOS Russian ones but they will also be big or bigger then those .
   
  Thanks for offering your room I will see if I can swing it. Also have to come up with a 1000 Euro to bring to Greece have to get some amps built I guess !


----------



## Ultrainferno

GLenn, is it safe to use the 5R4GY tube in my amp?
   
  http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5r4gy.html
   
  http://www.r-type.org/pdfs/5r4gy.pdf
   
  Thank you


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> GLenn, is it safe to use the 5R4GY tube in my amp?
> 
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5r4gy.html
> 
> ...


 

 Yes it will have a much higher voltage drop compared to a GZ37 but who knows maybe sounds better
  You might have to turn up the bias with the lower B+ voltage..


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> We are running a tight ship, no women allowed at sea!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> BTW your gear looks excellent.


 
  Thanks Stavros...Loving the sound of nature.... Not the woods...Steely Dan's "Two Against Nature"...


----------



## rosgr63

Do It Again is one of my ALL TIME favourite tracks.
   
  I often close my eyes and hear it, just one of these songs that bring back lots of memories.
   
  Enjoy your stay Eric.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> *M/V "Love Audio Boat"*
> 
> *Crew List*
> 
> ...


 
  The navigator suggest to stop by port RMAF at Denver Marriott Tech Center Hotel on October 11-13, 2013 for a short technical refuel.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Do It Again is one of my ALL TIME favourite tracks.
> 
> I often close my eyes and hear it, just one of these songs that bring back lots of memories.
> 
> Enjoy your stay Eric.



That was in the rotation last night!


----------



## longbowbbs

seamaster said:


> rosgr63 said:
> 
> 
> > *M/V "Love Audio Boat"*
> ...



Excellent course suggestion! Those of us staying on board want lots of great pictures!


----------



## Silent One

Yes, the thread could delight in more pix...


----------



## Seamaster

Picture Link:
   
http://www.orbitz.com/shop/hotelsearch?hsv.pathType=APH&hotel.chkin=10%2F11%2F13&pageView=popup&hsv.showDetails=true&hotel.hkey=F9848SEADEN1011C_F9837DENSEA1013C-40747_null_null_null_A1%3A0&interstitial=true&type=hotel&hotel.keyword.key=Denver&hotel.type=keyword&search=Search&hotel.chkout=10%2F13%2F13&hotel.hid=40747&hotel.hotelRoom.adlts=1
   
   
 The Inverness Hotel http://www.invernesshotel.com/denver-restaurants.php
   
  http://www.orbitz.com/hotel/United_States--CO/Englewood/The_Inverness_Hotel.h40747/
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



200 Inverness Dr. W., Englewood, CO 80112  4.5 miles from the RMAF at Denver Marriott Tech Center


----------



## Seamaster

*virtualTour*
   
http://www.orbitz.com/shop/hotelVirtualTour?hotel.hid=40747&pageView=virtualTour
   
   
  I will bring my Airbow SR-SC21, I hope by then Kingstyle bruned-in for me. He has my headphones for comparsion with 009 and 007MK1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


>


 
   
  Speaking of music, sadly George Duke passed away last night...


----------



## rosgr63

Sorry to hear this SO may he rest in peace


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton *please help me!*
   
  I had lots of salted cod in tomato and potato stew, also fried with home made garlic sauce and cheesecake with L's strawberry jam.
   
  I am on my fifth Perrier bottle with lemon and it feels as I am going to explode!
  Any suggestions what to do?
   
  Eric please don't ask me to get up off my chair, I can't............
   
  Meantime listening on repeat to Daft Punk Get Lucky and looking at these:


----------



## 2359glenn

Common Stavros Talking about food.
  I have no cheesecake but have plenty of L's strawberry jam so I will have to get the next best thing
  ice cream with strawberry jam on it.


----------



## Clayton SF

So I get this call from the receptionist at the front desk and she tells me I got this package from Amazon.
  I didn't order anything from Amazon.
  I open the box and in the box is a gift from...
   
  I haven't opened the gift yet. I'll wait until I get home later tonight. 
   
  P.S. Now how in the world did you get my work address?
   
  Glenn?


----------



## 2359glenn

Clayton I did not give Stavros your work address he did not ask me.
   
  If he asked me I would have given it to him.
   
  Stavros is very good on the Internet and it is not hard to find everything about someone on the Internet.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Clayton I did not give Stavros your work address he did not ask me.
> If he asked me I would have given it to him.
> Stavros is very good on the Internet and it is not hard to find everything about someone on the Internet.


 
  That is so true: If someone wants to find out anything about someone, then someone usually can. Hehehe.
  And he calls me naughty.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That is so true: If someone wants to find out anything about someone, then someone usually can. Hehehe.
> And he calls me naughty.


 

 He is always calling me naughty
  And he is the naughty one maybe not we might be evenly naughty at this point.
  It don't matter Stavros is my best friend and brother.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > That is so true: If someone wants to find out anything about someone, then someone usually can. Hehehe.
> ...




You may want to buy him a bigger chair for a present...


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> He is always calling me naughty
> And he is the naughty one maybe not we might be evenly naughty at this point.
> It don't matter Stavros is my best friend and brother.


 
   
   
That's exactly how I feel Glenn and you know it.
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> You may want to buy him a bigger chair for a present...


 
   
  Eric I could not sleep last night eating too much, and as I was looking for compassion from my shipmates.
   
  As for Clayton he's already been naughty when Glenn was here!


----------



## Clayton SF

Crows nest. Someone's got to be up there in the crows nest lest the crew all go overboard. Ultra-, get ready to break out the beer remedy!


----------



## rosgr63

Who was on duty?
   
  Better get the plank ready!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Sorry guys, I overslept! Well, not really, I was listening to a new headphone 
   
  So Clayton, what actually did the generous Stavros send to you? We're curious! The internet sure does limit your privacy doesn't it?


----------



## Clayton SF

I got a survival book from Stavros.
   
  I'm looking up Ultra-'s house right now. Let's see.
  It is on page...
  Under Ultrainferno's Prank Plank...
  ... and it says...
   
  Ultra-Prank Plank
  A ritual of making guests walk the plank into a swimming pool of Belgian Beer.


----------



## rosgr63

Oh, can I stop moping the bilges and get on the beer plank too???????


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Oh, can I stop moping the bilges and get on the beer plank too???????


 
  You have to get out of your chair first!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> You have to get out of your chair first!


 
   
  One-Off Custom--
  Installed only at Ultra-s' Beer Pool
  You've eaten too much and can't walk Ultra-'s Prank Plank
  No problem: Eat and cool off with no worries.
  Easy in. Easy out.
   
_*The Stavros Pool Chair.*_


----------



## longbowbbs

Archimedes would be proud!


----------



## Seamaster

I was navigating in the bed, Belgian Red please!


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Clayton, I knew you were going to come up with an excellent solution for me, *Unlike *Eric, our tough Chief Officer!
   
  Seamaster you better shape up or the chief is going to come down on you like a ton of bricks.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Hi Clayton, I knew you were going to come up with an excellent solution for me, *Unlike* Eric, our tough Chief Officer!
> 
> Seamaster you better shape up or the chief is going to come down on you like a ton of bricks.




Hey. I was being complimentary for a classic Greek solution to a problem!


----------



## rosgr63

Honestly Eric your knowledge of Classics is amazing, well done I am very impressed!
   
*But* you have to be tough on us or else we'll never leave port
   
  Don't forget the grease monkey is very naughty...............


----------



## Ultrainferno

ATTENTION ALL SAILERS: I have intercepted a disturbing message on the radio that the party police will be raiding our boat.


----------



## Clayton SF

Our ship can travel on land and on sea. See!
  I don't see Ultra- and the 4 officers. They must have gone overboard.


----------



## longbowbbs

Sorry, we're busy frisking the party police.....


----------



## rosgr63

Can I saw them my bilges?
   
  But don't tell the Chief Engineer or else he'll kick me out.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm back, those police offers finally let me go. They had me sweating there for a while





   
  On an audio related note Glenn, would there be any difference if I hooked the HE-500 headphone up to the speaker connectors in stead of the SE headphone out?


----------



## Seamaster

I just gave my 6-years old a early birthday gift, guess what? A tube amp with cat-eyes in her room, already rolled tubes with Mullard and Siemens. Ha ha.


----------



## rosgr63

That's a wonderful idea!!!!!
   
  Get your son used to tubes from an early age.
   
  It looks so cool.......


----------



## Ultrainferno

Very cool!
   
  Clayton, are your bags ready? Only 5 days left!


----------



## rosgr63

The eagle is getting ready................


----------



## 2359glenn

Tic Tok Tic


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm back, those police offers finally let me go. They had me sweating there for a while
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What is the impedance of the HE-500 ??


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> What is the impedance of the HE-500 ??


 
   
  38Ohms. I don't think the amp will give to much power. I was just wondering if there could be a difference in power/sound with the speaker plugs


----------



## 2359glenn

I have resistors to the headphone jack to make it safe.
  First I have a resistor across the output to load the output transformer .
  Then I have a resistor in series with the Headphone. The loading resistor
  gets hooked up when the headphones are hooked up They are the same resistor values
  used in the Leben CS300


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thank you for the detailed info, but what does that mean to a non technical guy?
   
  - It is not safe to use the speaker plugs?
  - it will have more power on the speaker plugs?
  - it will sound the same or different on the speaker plug?
   
  Sometimes it sucks not understanding the tech guys


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thank you for the detailed info, but what does that mean to a non technical guy?
> 
> - It is not safe to use the speaker plugs?
> - it will have more power on the speaker plugs?
> ...


 

 I'm a tech guy. Let met translate.
  It means DO NOT TOUCH.
  Wasn't I helpful. Hehehe.
  We'll have a lot to play with when I get there.
  Set up your headphone bar and chill the champagne!
  Wait. Chill the champagne and fill the pool with beer.
  Forget the headphones (for now).
  You don't want to ruin perfectly new shirts and stain the pool red, white, and blue,
  and grey.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Set up your headphone bar and chill the champagne!
> Wait. Chill the champagne and fill the pool with beer.
> Forget the headphones (for now).
> You don't want to ruin a perfectly new shirts and stain the pool red, white, and blue,
> and grey.


 
   
  The bar and the headphone room are ready, they're just not on the same floor. I'm not sure the misses will like me filling the pool with beer. (It's raining here now btw)
  I don't get the color clues though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This weekend when you buy 2 crates of beer (2 x 24 bottles) you get one crate for free. So we'll have 36 beers each for 3 days. And that's just the normal beer


----------



## 2359glenn

It will have much more power on the speaker jacks and a little more noise.
  Do you have a wire that goes from banana plugs to a headphone jack ?
  Clayton has one you can ask him to bring it ??


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thank you Glenn. I do not yet, but I was planning on getting one made by a friend to use with the HE-500 and LCD-2. I wouldn't want Clayton to carry all that stuff with him overseas, I need him in full strength for 3 days of drinking and eating and having fun


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thank you Glenn. I do not yet, but I was planning on getting one made by a friend to use with the HE-500 and LCD-2. I wouldn't want Clayton to carry all that stuff with him overseas, I need him in full strength for 3 days of drinking and eating and having fun


 

 And how would I explain a luggage full of colored wire loops to security? Unless I get the same TSA Agent that inspected my backpack stuffed with the WA2.
   
  I am packing my suitcase this weekend with items for Lieven to see how much room I have left for my clothes. 
   
  Also, Lieven, aren't you going to make me walk up 200 stairs and then make me slide down them while sitting in a waxed cardboard box?


----------



## Ultrainferno

The 200 stairs up are only if the sun is shining. You can decide yourself how you want to get down, but I suggest taking the same stairs back.
  Don't bring me anything, I'm spoiled enough already C


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> The 200 stairs up are only if the sun is shining. You can decide yourself how you want to get down, but I suggest taking the same stairs back.
> Don't bring me anything, I'm spoiled enough already C


 
   
  Too late.

 Oh, I see. You're going to sacrifice me to the Tube Sun God.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> This weekend when you buy 2 crates of beer (2 x 24 bottles) you get one crate for free. So we'll have 36 beers each for 3 days. And that's just the normal beer


 
   
  Just make sure you guys are still going to fit in a Airline seat by the end of the trip. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And how would I explain a luggage full of colored wire loops to security? Unless I get the same TSA Agent that inspected my backpack stuffed with the WA2.


 
  Just don't say "bomb" and dress like an American, then you good to go.


----------



## 2359glenn

If you wind them up like they are computer cables it will be OK .
   
  I gained 4Lbs or 2 Kilograms in Greece in one week.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> It will have much more power on the speaker jacks and a little more noise.
> Do you have a wire that goes from banana plugs to a headphone jack ?
> Clayton has one you can ask him to bring it ??


 
   
  Speaker taps on a few of my amps - this is where I was headed. The aforementioned noise has given me pause. Is there a way to reduce the noise on the rear taps without degrading audio quality much? 
   
  I'm sure some sonic penalty would be involved but would it be audible? I ask because two of the amps have dedicated headphone jacks, the other two amps don't, made strictly for speakers. Perhaps, a way to shield the noise?
   
  As always, thanks for helping us on the road to happy listening...


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'm a tech guy. Let met translate.
> *It means DO NOT TOUCH.*
> Wasn't I helpful. Hehehe.
> We'll have a lot to play with when I get there.
> ...


 
   
  Clayton I love your great advise!!!!!!
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> The bar and the headphone room are ready, they're just not on the same floor.* I'm not sure the misses will like me filling the pool with beer*. (It's raining here now btw)
> I don't get the color clues though
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  She doesn't need to know Ultra, can always blame somebody else, or say it was an accident.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And how would I explain a luggage full of colored wire loops to security? Unless I get the same TSA Agent that inspected my backpack stuffed with the WA2.
> 
> I am packing my suitcase this weekend with items for Lieven to see how much room I have left for my clothes.
> 
> *Also, Lieven, aren't you going to make me walk up 200 stairs and then make me slide down them while sitting in a waxed cardboard box?*


 
   
  That's very cruel, just walk the beer plank.....
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Speaker taps on a few of my amps - this is where I was headed. The aforementioned noise has given me pause. Is there a way to reduce the noise on the rear taps without degrading audio quality much?
> 
> I'm sure some sonic penalty would be involved but would it be audible? I ask because two of the amps have dedicated headphone jacks, the other two amps don't, made strictly for speakers.
> 
> As always, thanks for helping us on the road to happy listening...


 
   
   
  I am sure our Chief Engineer will find a solution for our Captain.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am sure our Chief Engineer will find a solution for our Captain.


 
   
  Appreciate the comment. Just woke up and my thoughts aren't too clear. But getting better by the moment. I should have used the word "Shielding" in my post for better clarification. In this way, there shouldn't be a sonic penalty to pay if the audio signal isn't bogged down going through something. Just shield the bad boy from noise!


----------



## Clayton SF

We're on the road to happy drinking.
_Wet tshirt contest at Ultra-'s pool._


----------



## rosgr63

So that's exactly right, you are on the right track, but then again I am only the grease monkey.........
   
  Clayton, please don't say things like that.
  This morning I was feeling sorry for myself stuck in the office in a deserted city in the middle of the summer.
  I was dreaming I was at a beach bar, listening to bass heavy summer music, looking at the *scenery, *drinking Ice Coffee.
   
  And you're talking about beer pools and wet T-shirt contests.
  You mention it again and I'll get there in no time.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> This morning I was feeling sorry for myself _*stuck in the office in a deserted city*_ in the middle of the summer.


 
   
  ... in ATHENS!
   
  it is misting here in SF. I started off dry and when I got to work I was wet.


----------



## 2359glenn

So you are already ready for the pool just jump in if your cloths are wet.


----------



## rosgr63

Yes Athens is empty now, about 35degC 45% humidity, but windy, the worst weather for forrest fires.
   
  And I am burning thinking about Ultra's beer pool and the crowded beaches.
   
  Back to SO's signal degradation, noise elimination problem.........


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> So you are already ready for the pool just jump in if your cloths are wet.


 
   
   
  Glenn I think you should send me some technical emails to keep my mind busy in the afternoon for at least a week or so.


----------



## 2359glenn

I always send you E-Mails
  I don't know if you want to call them technical maybe educational.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I always send you E-Mails
> I don't know if you want to call them technical maybe educational.


 

 I think that Ultra- and I need to do some research on how to listen to headphones in a beer pool without electrocuting ourselves. 
   
  G/S: 106 (3 and 14)


----------



## 2359glenn

Plug everything into a double insulated  isolation transformer.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I always send you E-Mails
> I don't know if you want to call them technical maybe educational.


 
   
   
  Sorry, I meant to say educational and very refreshing!!!!!!!!!!
   
  Please keep sending them otherwise I'll end up in a lunatic asylum.


----------



## 2359glenn

Do you want some now??
  Funny how the same E-mails that go around your office in Greece go around my office in USA


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Do you want some now??


 
  Me too, me too. OK, I got these Tannoy Turnberry, I want to build a pair of super tweeters for them, considering Mundrof Air Motion Transformer OR Fostex T90A, both will have a L-Pad for them.
   
  1. What general design with Mundrof since they are all 4ohm? I have no clue yet.
  2. Do I need inductor with the Fostex in parallel?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> So that's exactly right, you are on the right track, but then again I am only the grease monkey.........
> 
> Clayton, please don't say things like that.
> This morning I was feeling sorry for myself stuck in the office in a deserted city in the middle of the summer.
> ...


 
  I finished frisking the police. They ARE qualified for the Wet T-Shirt contest.....


----------



## 2359glenn

I will need more info on those speakers.
  I assume you will need a inductor across after the capacitor.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for the excellent material Glenn, you've made me very happy tonight!!!!!
   
  I'll be ready to answer all your questions in November, I'll be  a good student.
   
  Eric the Police look like the "scenery" I was referring to........


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Plug everything into a double insulated  isolation transformer.


----------



## Seamaster

Amp like this

  C-Core Audio Note, is it safe to touch when running?
   
  When amp is off, how long the air-caps hold their charge? I am trying to find out here.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hes it is safe to touch while running those are good transformers.
   
  The Air caps I gave you are across the winding of the transformer so if they picked up a charge
  they would be discharged through the transformer.


----------



## Clayton SF

Winding it bigger than big!


----------



## daigo

All these pictures of unique glenn amps make me really want one as well.


----------



## Clayton SF

Just when I thought that it was safe enough to go to work again then the receptionist calls me and says that there's another box that was delivered to the office with my name on it.
   
  It is another thoughtful gift from Stavros. And right before my trip. I may even cook something from this book _before _the trip.


----------



## Eee Pee

Well good!  I expect some good stuff in the Food thread!


----------



## Silent One

I want my fries just like that!


----------



## 333jeffery

Hope Glenn got my pm, sometimes they don't go through...


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I want my fries just like that!


 
  Yes, me too, even it will shorten my life for a few hours


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





French bubbly and Belgium fries... what a combo!


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton you know how much most of us love food, so I thought I would refresh your memory before you fly!
   
  4 days left (in Europe, that is).
   
  Seamaster this is a very nice project. 
  What tubes are you using?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Mussels and vol au vent with fries. It's 9 am, but I could eat that right now!
  It's actually funny Stavros, cause C and me regularly talk about the chicken pastry in our email conversations. good choice!


----------



## rosgr63

I always get the blame, that's why I am hiding in the bilges!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
   
  I love vol au vent, and mussles and fries and.........Come on Ultra stop it you are making me hungry


----------



## Ultrainferno

Seems like you guys should all come to Belgium as well for the food and beer


----------



## rosgr63

Three conditions:
   
  A. Clayton cooks
   
  B. Nobody swims in the beer pool
   
  C. We can visit your listening room


----------



## rosgr63

I hope this isn't the beer pool!


----------



## 2359glenn

It would be OK if we were having a barbecue Pig pulling
  Just put a can of beer in his mouth before we put him on the Grill.


----------



## Clayton SF

C/U: 14
G/S: 105 (3 &13)

Clark Kent is
Superman


Ultrainferno is
Mullardman


----------



## Ultrainferno

I did buy some very pretty Mullard EF80 mesh plate in original box recently. 15$ for a pair.
they both have identical codes "Lt1" Lt1 standing for EF80 of course and then B2B4. Blackburn 1962 February week 4


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I did buy some very pretty Mullard EF80 mesh plate in original box recently. 15$ for a pair.


 
   
  A must-post link: http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-019.htm


----------



## Ultrainferno

Nice read and an incredibly good sounding tube, I prefer them over the Telefunken


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





oskari said:


> A must-post link: http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-019.htm


 
  That is a lot of work and design process. I wondering how much those tubes cost relates to today's money.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Have you seen how much the C3G cost back in the day? Awesome read: http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/C3g-C3m-info.html
   
  Does anyone have any info on Sylvania date codes? I have tube coded EAF and one EAG. Can't find a single thing besides "Commercial hidden production date" lol


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ultrainferno is
> Mullardman


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


>


 
   
  Are they on a Woo amp? How they sound (tonally) compare to ...


----------



## rosgr63

Mind Ultra this is the new style logo, which possibly means they were CCCP made.


----------



## rosgr63

Seamaster you never mentioned what tubes you are/will be using?


----------



## Ultrainferno

seamaster said:


> Are they on a Woo amp? How they sound (tonally) compare to ...




They are in my Lafigaro 339, not in a Woo. They are smoother sounding as the famous Telefunken. Less sharp and aggressive



rosgr63 said:


> Mind Ultra this is the new style logo, which possibly means they were CCCP made.




I know right. I love the logo, the tubes do have a Blackburn plant code on them. But in the end it's all the same to me as they sound superb


----------



## rosgr63

I have read somewhere that this logo was introduced in the 70's, probably 1972.
   
  Whatever the maker, they were certainly made to tight Philips/Mullard specks, and should therefore sound excellent.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ultrainferno is
      Mullardman

  He cannot be stopped!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Seamaster you never mentioned what tubes you are/will be using?


 
   
  For the Stax energrizer, it is not tube-powered. Maybe Glenn has better idea if we go with tube route.


----------



## Seamaster

The project is an energizer not an amp.  The tone control is for easier match with source amp and different headphones.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


>


 
   
  Looks genuine to me.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> they both have identical codes "Lt1" Lt1 standing for EF80 of course and then B2B4. Blackburn 1962 February week 4


 
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I have read somewhere that this logo was introduced in the 70's, probably 1972.


 
   
  Yep. Probably 1972 tubes valves.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Does anyone have any info on Sylvania date codes? I have tube coded EAF and one EAG. Can't find a single thing besides "Commercial hidden production date" lol


 
   
  Sylvania and Tung-Sol date codes must be some of the best kept secrets on this planet.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ultrainferno is
> Mullardman


 
   
  Clayton, do you maybe have a good quality png of this or the new logo?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Clayton, do you maybe have a good quality png of this or the new logo?


 
   
  I don't.
  But don't worry.
  I've got your _*back*_, Mullardman.


----------



## longbowbbs

Woohoo...Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSD SE is in the house!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Woohoo...Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSD SE is in the house!


 
  I just bought a power cable from Mr. Cullen. He claim it will beat the cables I owned before:
  Cardas Golden reference (junk), VH Audio F4 (great cable but too stiff), black sand violet II (vocal not right), Oyaide Tusnami (current, sounds like better version of VH Audio F4). Sailers, what are you guys using? Fire fighting hose?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Woohoo...Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSD SE is in the house!


 
   
  Very nice, I was thinking of getting the W4S DAC-2 myself. Got any pictures?


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Woohoo...Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSD SE is in the house!


 
   
  Congratulations Eric!!!
  Are you back home now?
   
   
  Quote: 





seamaster said:


> I just bought a power cable from Mr. Cullen. He claim it will beat the cables I owned before:
> Cardas Golden reference (junk), VH Audio F4 (great cable but too stiff), black sand violet II (vocal not right), Oyaide Tusnami (current, sounds like better version of VH Audio F4). Sailers, what are you guys using? Fire fighting hose?


 
   
   
  I use Oyaide, some custom made and ordinary power cables.
   
  To me the heart of any system is the power supply.
  A well designed and implemented ps should not change a unit's sound signature, when using an expensive power cord.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Clayton, do you maybe have a good quality png of this or the new logo?


 
   
  Here's a 2000X1497px logo.
  If you need a larger one just let me know.


----------



## longbowbbs

Back home after camp. Burning in the new DAC-2 DSD SE....That'll take a couple of weeks
   

   
  The SE has the green. The Old DAC-2 and the DSD only model are Blue...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thank Stavros, but I can't seem to save the png, it's just black :s


----------



## Silent One

Interesting. I can save it just fine.


----------



## rosgr63

I'll send that and a larger one by email.
   
  Eric I thought you were supposed to be camping another week or so!!!!!!!!
  That's very naughty but I don't blame you.
   
  It looks beautiful............if you decide to go back to camp I can always burn it in for you...........


----------



## longbowbbs

If I went camping another week I would be unemployed.....Fun times, but time to get back to it.


----------



## Silent One

Very excited about your new shoe box... can't wait for you to get acquainted!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Congratulations Eric!!!
> Are you back home now?
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, the bottle neck of my system right now is the PS, I have not found any good PS with reasonable price yet.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Back home after camp. Burning in the new DAC-2 DSD SE....That'll take a couple of weeks
> 
> 
> 
> The SE has the green. The Old DAC-2 and the DSD only model are Blue...


 
  How funny/amazing that they made their name in Hi-Fi in  such short time, but they took longer than Glenn in Head-Fi world, ha.


----------



## longbowbbs

True genius is recognized quickly sometimes!


----------



## rosgr63

3 days left!
   
  Clayton are you packed?


----------



## Silent One

Short 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. They've a long OEM history...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> 3 days left!
> Clayton are you packed?


 
  OMG. NO! My suitcase is full of gifts and things for Ultra-! There's no room for my clothes! 
  How in the world am I supposed to shove this Zana Deux SE in the space where my shoes are supposed to go?
  Must regroup. Must regroup.
   
_Mullardman will never go shirtless._
   
  Hey, look what I made from the cookbook you gave me.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> OMG. NO! My suitcase is full of gifts and things for Ultra-! There's no room for my clothes!
> How in the world am I supposed to shove this Zana Deux SE in the space where my shoes are supposed to go?
> Must regroup. Must regroup.
> 
> _Mullardman will never go shirtless._


 
   
  I've told him a dozen times not to bring me anything, just his good mood. He's such a bad boy.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> OMG. NO! My suitcase is full of gifts and things for Ultra-! There's no room for my clothes!
> How in the world am I supposed to shove this Zana Deux SE in the space where my shoes are supposed to go?
> Must regroup. Must regroup.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Wow, that looks so good!!!!!!!!!
   
  Are you sharing??????


----------



## Clayton SF

What's mine is yours. That goes without saying.


----------



## Seamaster

4 x C3g and 4 x C3m Siemens are on the way, my wallet is crying, it is all Clayton's fault!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> What's mine is yours. That goes without saying.


 
   
   
  "Heaven must be Missing an Angel", by Tavares.
   
  That's you Clayton, kind and thoughtful.
   
*2 Days!*
   
  Seamaster stop it please I don't need another addiction!


----------



## Clayton SF

seamaster said:


> 4 x C3g and 4 x C3m Siemens are on the way, my wallet is crying, it is all Clayton's fault!




I thought those tubes were supposed to be cheaply priced.


----------



## Ultrainferno

It seems the C3G tubes have gone up in price over the last few months. Very hard to find any here under 25€ a piece now. It's still not too bad


----------



## 2359glenn

Jac Music has them for 26E each not that bad
  I paid allot more for tubes that don't sound as good. 
  This is one of the best driver tubes available.


----------



## 2359glenn

2 days Clayton
   
  I bet your excited now !!!!!!!!
   
  I am jealous .You will be sitting by Ultrainferno's pool drinking good beer.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Jac Music has them for 26E each not that bad
> I paid allot more for tubes that don't sound as good.
> This is one of the best driver tubes available.


 
   
  Oh, I hate that. In December they had the C3g marked _Post Gabt_ for $8 a piece and he had more than 30 available. I think that someone is hoarding them for a future date.
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> 2 days Clayton
> I bet your excited now !!!!!!!!
> I am jealous .You will be sitting by Ultrainferno's pool drinking good beer.


 
  Don't be jealous just because I'll be with Ultrainferno drinking beer, eating very good food from his kitchen and his country, and enjoying (most of all) his great company and hospitality. It is my way appreciating what you and Stavros have--good taste, good sense, and good times!
   
  GREECE 103 or 3 and 11.
   
  Ultra- I hope that your gf doesn't see red.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I don't get it


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Oh, I hate that. In December they had the C3g marked _Post Gabt_ for $8 a piece and he had more than 30 available. I think that someone is hoarding them for a future date.
> 
> Don't be jealous just because I'll be with Ultrainferno drinking beer, eating very good food from his kitchen and his country, and enjoying (most of all) his great company and hospitality. It is my way appreciating what you and Stavros have--good taste, good sense, and good times!
> 
> ...


 

 Clayton I have a good idea lets swap tickets.
  After landing I rent a car start driving south and in about 3days and 7 hours I can be ringing Stavros door bell.
  Talk about being a bad boy.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I don't get it


 
  Oh, you'll get it.


----------



## rosgr63

That's right Glenn.
   
  I have done this trip many times.
  Usual stop over was at Lugano, a day at Como and then all the way to Bari or Brindisi to catch the ferry boat.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Como, lovely place!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> It seems the C3G tubes have gone up in price over the last few months. Very hard to find any here under 25€ a piece now. It's still not too bad


 
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Jac Music has them for 26E each not that bad
> I paid allot more for tubes that don't sound as good.
> This is one of the best driver tubes available.


 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Oh, I hate that. In December they had the C3g marked _Post Gabt_ for $8 a piece and he had more than 30 available. I think that someone is hoarding them for a future date.


 
  I paid $20 each for 8 tubes plus shipping from Germany, they are siemens tubes.
   
  Man, I wish I am going with you guys.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> I paid $20 each for 8 tubes plus shipping from Germany, they are siemens tubes.
> 
> Man, I wish I am going with you guys.


 
   
  Who knows, maybe next year 
   
  I got mine from the same German ebay guy I suppose. 16€ a piece but he's no longer selling any. His tubes do not have the post stamp however


----------



## rosgr63

Wrong post, WGT talk!
   
  Sorry.
   
  Can you post a photo please Ultra?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Who knows, maybe next year
> 
> I got mine from the same German ebay guy I suppose. 16€ a piece but he's no longer selling any. His tubes do not have the post stamp however


 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380689757056&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:3160
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130959260188?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  I think he has more in his warehouse, you can ask him.
   
  I am looking forward to next year, ha ha.


----------



## longbowbbs

Between the Beer, Food and travel talk I feel like I am reading Rick Steve's Travel Europe!
   
  Have fun Clayton!


----------



## 2359glenn

Now you have to get me to build you a amp that uses this tube.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Between the Beer, Food and travel talk I feel like I am reading Rick Steve's Travel Europe!
> 
> Have fun Clayton!


 
   
  Eric, have you noticed how good I've been?
  Never mentioned any food!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  BTW how is your DAC coming along?
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Now you have to get me to build you a amp that uses this tube.


 
   
  Build him a tube energiser working at 1000V, and wire it up so when he thinks bad he can get a little tingle!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

You can see them here
   

   
  Need a close-up?


----------



## longbowbbs

Clayton, I am sure Lieven will have plenty of good food when you arrive. Good times are going to be had!
   
  The DAC is settling in nicely. The detail is the best I have ever heard. I have about 40 hours on it so far. W4S said it will be fully burned in at around 100.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Ultra!
   
  How do you like the JJ?
   
*EDiT* Thanks Eric, by the time I post a reply there's one already there!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I don't have any other 300b's to compare them to, so....


----------



## rosgr63

DHT Addiction now?


----------



## Ultrainferno

For the moment I have another 339 addiction. I have to move the 300B back downstairs so I'll use it more


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Build him a tube energiser working at 1000V, and wire it up so when he thinks bad he can get a little tingle!!!!!!!


 
  The air caps he gave me are already rated well over 1000V 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, that is why i am looking for a cover so I don't get zapped just for changing the tone.
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Now you have to get me to build you a amp that uses this tube.


 
  That is why I have the 2nd case, ha


----------



## 2359glenn

Use the same transformers as plate loads
  and have four C3g driving four 300Bs direct connected to the headphones.
  Could also use EL34s but they don't sound as good as a 300B.
  Have to use a tube that can handle 450 volts DC on the plate.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Use the same transformers as plate loads
> and have four C3g driving four 300Bs direct connected to the headphones.
> Could also use EL34s but they don't sound as good as a 300B.
> Have to use a tube that can handle 450 volts DC on the plate.


 
  Glenn,
  Does that sounds great!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> The air caps he gave me are already rated well over 1000V
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Can I be your tone man please?
  I'll be very careful with the air caps!!!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You can see them here
> 
> 
> 
> *Need a close-up?*


 
   
  Yes...... yes I do. I'm having trouble finding/reading the name of the manufacturer. It's a beautiful amp.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Use the same transformers as plate loads
> and have four C3g driving four 300Bs direct connected to the headphones.
> Could also use EL34s but they don't sound as good as a 300B.
> Have to use a tube that can handle 450 volts DC on the plate.


 
  To be clear: Are you talking about a regular Stax amp right? That sound wonderful. If in that case, I either need a bigger case or thow-in the 2nd case to be a two-case design, Which rectifier for that job? Or don't need one
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Can I be your tone man please?
> I'll be very careful with the air caps!!!!!!!!


 
  Oh, we could use you as our OSHA regulation tester.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes...... yes I do. I'm having trouble finding/reading the name of the manufacturer. It's a beautiful amp.


 
  This time "Glenn Studio" name will be engraved on my amp


----------



## rosgr63

Is that a promotion from my grease monkey job?
   
  Glenn the only problem with that configuration would be that the tubes will have to be well matched right?
  Can auto biasing take care of that?
   
  BTW how's the filling coming along?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You can see them here
> 
> 
> 
> Need a close-up?


 

 I can tell what it is by just looking at it.
  I also can see that it was built to his and your specifications.
  Great teamwork.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton are you packed???????
   
  Or are you a last minute person...........


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> This time "Glenn Studio" name will be engraved on my amp


 
   




   
  I want the engraving on my new amp too! This month, I'm just trying to figure out where on the Merry-go-round in the rotation I can place my order with Glenn. Guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it would help if I knew what I wanted. But I'm awaiting feedback on the 45amp.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I want the engraving on my new amp too! This month, I'm just trying to figure out where on the Merry-go-round in the rotation I can place my order with Glenn. Guess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I belive Panel Express offer free software to download and you can design engraving and cut-out yourself, only face plate needed for that job. I am some what local to them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380689757056&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:3160
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/130959260188?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> ...


 

 FWIW that is Jac van der Walle's eBay selling account, so they are coming from the same place either way:  Jac Music.  He seems to be the only person who has these in large quantities.  Because the total amount of these made is actually fairly well known I think he is keeping close tabs on his supply and pricing.  When they start to become really scarce it will happen fast and become very hard to find more I think, this tube was made by only a single factory over a much shorter period of time than major tubes like the 6SN7 were.
   
  On the upside, the tube is designed to have a _minimum average life_ of 10,000 hours.  There are reports of the tubes lasting twice that long.  10,000 hours means even if you use your amp pretty heavily you're going to get 10 years out of a single pair.  I think having a single backup pair is wise, but there is no need to hoard these tubes IMO.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> 10,000 hours means even if you use your amp pretty heavily you're going to get 10 years out of a single pair.  I think having a single backup pair is wise, but there is no need to hoard these tubes IMO.


 
  Man, my planned life span is more than 20  more years, I am screwed ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  I need some expensive Irish Whiskey now before gets too late


----------



## Ultrainferno

I did see another dealer with almost 200 in stock somewhere. I'd have to look it up but we're still safe for a while


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> To be clear: Are you talking about a regular Stax amp right? That sound wonderful. If in that case, I either need a bigger case or thow-in the 2nd case to be a two-case design, Which rectifier for that job? Or don't need one
> Oh, we could use you as our OSHA regulation tester.


 
  Or a rectifier like this one:

   
  Mercury-arc valve, current ratings of up to 500 A


----------



## john57

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> I belive Panel Express offer free software to download and you can design engraving and cut-out yourself, only face plate needed for that job. I am some what local to them.


 
  That is not a bad idea and I still like a oval plate with a picture of a light bulb and Glenn Studios with an light script front.


----------



## Clayton SF

I went out to get a hamburger for lunch and ended up running into a great terrarium store! I'm coming back to this place after I leave Ultra-'s place.
   
  I think one of these would look really great between my GlennMonoblockAmps. A little out of the ordinary, like me. 
   
  The first picture has a collection of carnivorous plants. I see a Venus Flytrap.


----------



## longbowbbs

Wow they are really cool!


----------



## Seamaster

Venus flytrap in the first picture looks very cool, is there flies in there? Very neat!!


----------



## Clayton SF

No flies.
  I was going to buy a hamburger but didn't.
  Still feeling a wee bit peckish I made a slider instead.
  Yummy.
  Now I am listening to my GlennAmp.


----------



## john57

Beautiful pictures! I used to have a Venus Flytrap plant as a kid and I also feed it with a small piece of leftover hamburger. Beautiful store!


----------



## Eee Pee

Well that's definitely a cool post!
   
  Nice Clayton!


----------



## rosgr63

*1 day left!*
   
  Clayton, stop looking and photographing the lovely plants.
  Stop cooking nice food.
   
  Finish packing!!!!!!!!
   
  You can play music though, that's OK.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Stop cooking nice food.


 
   
  Crazy talk!


----------



## rosgr63

Don't encourage Clayton, he'll never finish packing!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Xcalibur are you sure?
   
  One is located at Sulz, Muehlheim and the other at Altusreid, they are over 200Km apart.


----------



## Eee Pee

Not my problem!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  What thread is this anyways?  Beer, food, amps, plants?


----------



## Silent One

Although, the Thread Starter prefers French bubbly, ALL of the Above!


----------



## rosgr63

I often post irrelevant posts, and I sincerely apologize to the Silent One.
   
  SO has shown his caliber and great personality and I am very grateful.
   
  However between my irrelevant posts some secrets are revealed which might be of some use to some one day.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I often post irrelevant posts, and I sincerely apologize to the Silent One.
> 
> SO has shown his caliber and great personality and I am very grateful.
> 
> However between my irrelevant posts some secrets are revealed which might be of some use to some one day.


 
   





 No apologies necessary. The aforementioned naughty posts actually help us stay connected. And navigate the wonderful and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




wicked world of audio.
   
   
  "Good luck! And don't spend too much money. Remember, it's about _emotional and aesthetic involvement_. If you don't have that, you don't have much." - Nathan Lewis


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks SO.
  You put it very nicely. 
   
There are few pleasures as simple, and wonderful as music - *[size=11.111111640930176px]Craig Uthus[/size]*
   
If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, you've measured the wrong thing -*[size=11.111111640930176px]Daniel R. von Recklinghausen*[/size]
   
My goal is to make a amp that sounds great with the cheapest tubes - *[size=11.111111640930176px]2359glenn*[/size]


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Seamaster

Using Front Panel Designer was a very steep learning curve for me. All the measurement of connectors of this project are not standard. I have to use a digital caliper to measure and manually calculate the cut-out/hole relations.


   
  The Stax sockets pattern took me 3 hours to get them right.


----------



## rosgr63

Are you using Mitutoyo calipers?


----------



## 2359glenn

Clayton
   
One More day !!
   
You are so lucky !!!!
   
Sitting at work here thinking I have to get out of here.
I still have 103 days till I get out of here.
Then I become Stavros problem for a week.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Not my problem!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think this is whatever makes everyone happy thread !
   
  It surely is not dedicated to audio and headphones.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Then I become Stavros problem for a week.


 
   
  That is very well put.
   
  I wonder if he took today off too or if Clayton is still going to work. He's still sleeping now, we'll know later.
  11 more days and Clayton will be drunk in the pool be listening to Glenn's amp at my place


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> That is very well put.
> 
> I wonder if he took today off too or if Clayton is still going to work. He's still sleeping now, we'll know later.
> 11 more days and Clayton will be drunk in the pool be listening to Glenn's amp at my place


 

 I am getting so excited I just spilled my cup of coffee on my keyboard while trying to type this post with one finger.
   
  I am working today and tomorrow to make sure things are in order. My desk needs to be deciphered first before I leave.
   
  11 more days and Ultra- and I will be listening to the pool and swimming in Glenn's amp somewhere between Amsterdam and Paris.
   
_Roses are Red and so is RCA._
_Violets are Blue and so is RCA._
_I'll be there in 10 and a day, yay!_


----------



## 2359glenn

Clayton to bad you weren't going straight to Ultras house and the party would begin in a couple of days.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Maybe next year, but it's tradition for C to go to A'Dam and that's very cool.
  Then again, who knows he might not want to leave my place anymore at all in 2 weeks time. I'd have to move to SF in his place myself to do maintenance on his amps


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Maybe next year, but it's tradition for C to go to A'Dam and that's very cool.
> Then again, who knows he might not want to leave my place anymore at all in 2 weeks time. I'd have to move to SF in his place myself to do maintenance on his amps


 

 That sounds like fun nobody has more amps then Clayton!!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Clayton
> 
> One More day !!
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  Not long to go now Glenn!
   
  Then you are going to be Kira's problem trying to get you away from Bella........not mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Not long to go now Glenn!
> 
> Then you are going to be Kira's problem trying to get you away from Bella........not mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 

 Kira loves me and L maybe she bites everyone else but knows we are suckers.


----------



## rosgr63

She is really bad, but she loves you and L.
   
  She has very few friends whom she loves.
   
  She hates everybody else.


----------



## 2359glenn

I think that is why your family accepted us so fast We got Kira's approval
  If Kira likes them they must be OK !!


----------



## rosgr63

My mom loves you both and she's an excellent judge of character, not to mention the rest of the family.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> My mom loves you both and she's an excellent judge of character, not to mention the rest of the family.


 
  It is also worth mentioning that your mother is also an excellent cook. (So I've heard!)


----------



## rosgr63

Indeed.
   
  Some of her traditional dishes can't be beat.
   
  Her banana cake (Jamie Oliver's recipe she's seen and copied from the TV) is great!
   
  But the very best is her home made sour cherry juice, a 60 year old recipe.
   
*EDIT:*Corrected some spelling errors


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Use the same transformers as plate loads
> and have four C3g driving four 300Bs direct connected to the headphones.
> Could also use EL34s but they don't sound as good as a 300B.
> Have to use a tube that can handle 450 volts DC on the plate.


 
   
  Quote: 





seamaster said:


> To be clear: Are you talking about a regular Stax amp right? That sound wonderful. If in that case, I either need a bigger case or thow-in the 2nd case to be a two-case design, Which rectifier for that job? Or don't need one


 
   
  Guys what direction I should go? I have not get answer from Glenn yet.
   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Are you using Mitutoyo calipers?


 
  It made by Neiko Tool USA. It is all metal and get the job done.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Some of her traditional dishes can't be beat.
> 
> ...


 

 Lets not even talk about the cherry juice I have been on withdrawals from it since I left.
  It is defiantly the best I couldn't stop drinking it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Guys what direction I should go? I have not get answer from Glenn yet.
> 
> It made by Neiko Tool USA. It is all metal and get the job done.


 

 What was the question I  must have missed it.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> What was the question I  must have missed it.


 


2359glenn said:


> Use the same transformers as plate loads
> and have four C3g driving four 300Bs direct connected to the headphones.
> Could also use EL34s but they don't sound as good as a 300B.
> Have to use a tube that can handle 450 volts DC on the plate.


   
  Quote: 





seamaster said:


> To be clear: Are you talking about a regular Stax amp right? That sound wonderful. If in that case, I either need a bigger case or thow-in the 2nd case to be a two-case design, Which rectifier for that job? Or don't need one


 
  The amp design using c3g drive 300B is for a full blown Stax amp right? Or are we still shoot for a energizer?


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Lets not even talk about the cherry juice I have been on withdrawals from it since I left.
> It is defiantly the best I couldn't stop drinking it.


 
   
   
  Seamaster to me it sounds like a proper amp.
   
  Now Seamaster's technical stuff is at hand I can tell you that she got more sour cherries and made some juice for you for when you come over.
  It's hidden out of the way I am not even allowed to look at it!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looks like stavros has been naughty again...


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Seamaster to me it sounds like a proper amp.
> 
> Now Seamaster's technical stuff is at hand I can tell you that she got more sour cherries and made some juice for you for when you come over.
> It's hidden out of the way I am not even allowed to look at it!!!!!!!!!!


 
  I just want to be 127% sure, since I am about to design the cut-outs. I have feeling this thing will be a......


----------



## Clayton SF

Cherry juice?
  Cherry Red?
_Ultra- beware of Red._


----------



## john57

Quote: 





> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Use the same transformers as plate loads
> ...


 
  I used to have three Stax headphones and I am down to one that is in like new condition, the Stax SR-5 black in gold trim. That is one of the early Stax designs and still one of the best for me. I like my current headphones and like the flexibility of using the headphones on any tube amp. Glenn idea of using C3g to drive the 300B sounds like the perfect match and very temping and delicious except food is more important! I never actually head a C3g driving the 300B but have been impressed by some of the 300B amps that I have heard.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I think this is whatever makes everyone happy thread !
> 
> It surely is not dedicated to audio and headphones.


 
  Guess that's why I hang out here with you guys.  You seem to be having fun and enjoying yourselves.  
   
  Just bought a SS amp to get that out of the way, but we'll have to talk soon, Glenn.  Cheers.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Xcalibur are you sure?
> 
> One is located at Sulz, Muehlheim and the other at Altusreid, they are over 200Km apart.


 

 I have ordered tubes from both and both packages arrived from the same shipper.


----------



## 2359glenn

Seamaster
   
  This decision is yours do you like the sound of your SS receiver enough to just need a Energizer ???
   
  What is the dimensions of your boxes ???
   
  I know the Impedance of the transformer is right for the 300B What is the DC primary current rated at on those transformers ???
   
  What is the wattage of the transformers  ???  This would also be able to be a 20 watt push pull 300B speaker amp when you are not using the headphones.
   
  Do you have a balanced source it would be easier smaller with less parts and sound better if you have a balanced source.
   
   
  This is something to think about or you can build the energizer now and build a full fledged Stax amp in the future ???
  I will need all the ratings of those transformers first.
  And will need to order a power transformer.
  I would use two GZ37 or two 5U4 rectifiers
   
  Get me the info on those transformers then I will know if it is passable.


----------



## Seamaster

Tango

  [size=x-small]FE-25-5[/size]
  [size=x-small]25W
 (50Hz)[/size]
  [size=x-small]5K[/size]
  [size=x-small]4,8,16 [size=x-small]Sec.
 imp.[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small]10Hz-80KHz[/size]
  [size=x-small]160mA[/size]  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Design
 current[/size][/size]

   [size=x-small]45, 6V6
 6CW5[/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Application[/size]
  [/size]

 [size=x-small]83[/size][size=x-small]x78x81[/size]
 [size=x-small]1.6[/size][size=x-small]Kg[/size]
    
   
   
  According to the factory recomendation, they are under powered for 300B. I don't know, you are th expert on this one.
  The dimension of the two boxes are 10.5" x 8" x 3" each
  I do have a balanced source


----------



## Seamaster

If we go with full blown amp (finger corssed here), I can mount all the transformers and rectifiers on one box, and power and driver tubes on the other box.


----------



## 2359glenn

Seamaster
   
  These transformers are a little under powered for two 300Bs in push pull.
   
  Maybe we should just build the energizer for now and get the right stuff in the future.
   
  The output transformers and all amplifier tubes should be on one chassis and
  the power transformer and rectifiers on a separate chassis.
  To reduce hum pickup from the power transformer.
   
  Four C3g and four 300Bs should sound fantastic driving these headphones.
   
  If you do this you will have the best of both worlds except costly buying more transformers.


----------



## Silent One

This is getting interesting... including my mental pictures.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Seamaster
> 
> These transformers are a little under powered for two 300Bs in push pull.
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, I figure they are under powered. I am planning to build a energizer to start, and then build a full amp next year. I am looking forward for the C3g and 300B combo.


----------



## longbowbbs

I have read a lot about the wonders of the 300b. What is it about the C3g in combination with the 300b that creates such positive synergy?


----------



## Silent One

For one, the Siemens C3g/C3m glass is _super quiet._


----------



## longbowbbs

This is a tube I am completely unfamiliar with. It is really fun learning about new ones and their best uses and what they combine with.


----------



## Silent One

I learned about the C3m a few years back when sizing up the Yamamoto A-09S and putting it on the Wish List.


----------



## Clayton SF

I haven't packed yet.
_What does Ultra- look like underwater?_
_All Wet!_
   
  All this tech talk makes me want to order another amp from Glenn.
  Glenn! One more for the road!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I haven't packed yet.
> _What does Ultra- look like underwater?_
> _All Wet!_
> 
> ...


 
  We're cutting you off Buddy, you have had your limit...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> We're cutting you off Buddy, you have had your limit...


 
   
  INTERVENTION!
  Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!
  Now I can get back to my dancing.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote:


eee pee said:


> Guess that's why I hang out here with you guys.  You seem to be having fun and enjoying yourselves.
> 
> Just bought a SS amp to get that out of the way, but we'll have to talk soon, Glenn.  Cheers.


 
   
   
Glenn makes nice great SS amps too!!!!!!!!!
   
   
  Quote:


ultrainferno said:


> Looks like stavros has been naughty again...


 
   
  Blame  the Internet...........again
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I haven't packed yet.
> _What does Ultra- look like underwater?_
> _All Wet!_
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> INTERVENTION!
> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!
> Now I can get back to my dancing.


 
   
  I can't believe you're not packed yet!!!!!!!!!!
  You are very naughty.


----------



## rosgr63

*O Days left Clayton*
   
*Bon Voyage!!!!!!!*


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Blame  the Internet...........again
> I can't believe you're not packed yet!!!!!!!!!!
> You are very naughty.


 
  I live on the edge.
  The edge of darkness.
  The edge of night.
  The edge of one day owning a metal base GZ34.
  The edge of a precipice.
  The edge of a double-edged sword.
  I will pack tomorrow.
  Right now I need to find my passport.
  I put it here somewhere.
   
  STAVROS! Help me! I'm about ready to go over the edge.
  Okay, okay, I'm fine now. Where am I?
   
_--Okay, a little bit of drama is needed to be instilled in this thread once in a while. _


----------



## rosgr63

You are just as bad as my middle brother.
   
  He packs when when the taxi to take him to the airport arrives.
   
  I don't even want to think about it.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Right now I need to find my passport.


 
  Check the date on your passport!


----------



## rosgr63

I am unsubscribed from the thread until I hear Clayton has safely arrived at Amsterdam.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Poor Clayton, going all crazy right before coming to this part of the world. Luckily we have good mental institutions over here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Have a good last one at work Clayton and have a safe flight later. I'll see you next week on friday. The girlfriend didn't agree to dress up like the german beer girls, so I'm still looking for a new welcoming committee. Would me in lederhosen suffice?
   

   
   
  Oh and Stavros, the internet works in both ways


----------



## rosgr63

Do they have a pool with a bar at those institutions?
   
  That's what I need!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Clayton, wake up. Stavros has just sent us a nice treat, get over to this side of the ocean, pronto! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Thanks Stavros!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Ultra you will have to let us know that Clayton has arrived OK.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I will as soon as I hear from him. Haven't heard him yet today


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You are just as bad as my middle brother.
> He packs when when the taxi to take him to the airport arrives.
> I don't even want to think about it.


 
  I haven't done my laundry yet so I can't pack yet. And yet I have to go to work in 4.5 hours.
  Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Check the date on your passport!


 
  I just did. I hate my picture. I looked all washed up. I need some color back into my cheeks.
  Expires on 11 MAY 2023. I have 10 more years to visit y'all.
  A passport is required for me to leave my apartment--so they tell me.
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am unsubscribed from the thread until I hear Clayton has safely arrived at Amsterdam.


 
  Breathe deeply. I have to wait for a friend to arrive from Dublin, Ireland so I have 3 hours to drink kill.
  I'll post that I have arrived safely from Schiphol Airport. That is after I have arrived safely and have been situated at the Champagne and Caviar bar. Check this out SO. _*BUBBLES*_.
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Poor Clayton, going all crazy right before coming to this part of the world. Luckily we have good mental institutions over here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ultra-, this _lederhosen_ can play music. We need to wear these ones!

   
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Do they have a pool with a bar at those institutions?
> That's what I need!!!!!!!!


 
  We have beer space reserved right next to us.
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Clayton, wake up. Stavros has just sent us a nice treat, get over to this side of the ocean, pronto!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What is it? What is it?
  Stavros, you have to stop sending gifts.
  Okay, maybe just slow down.
  Now it is time for coffee.
  I don't know how I'm going to get to the airport.
   
_*Oh, I leave tomorrow, not today so I still have 33 hours until liftoff.*_


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> What is it? What is it?
> Stavros, you have to stop sending gifts.
> Okay, maybe just slow down.
> 
> _*Oh, I leave tomorrow, not today so I still have 33 hours until liftoff.*_


 
   
  You'll see. It's a surprise 
   
  33 hours left? You have plenty of time then, just don't sleep and catch up on that in the plane/


----------



## rosgr63

*REQUEST & ALERT*
   
  Ultra, Glenn, Seamaster, and everybody else please don't post anything because you are distracting Clayton.
  Just keep quiet until we hear he's on the plane!!!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> *REQUEST & ALERT*


 
  I should have had Glenn build me a pocket ss amp to take with me on my flight. Now I have to deal with my iPad.
   
  I am leaving for work. Going to get a breakfast burrito. I'll check in later.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> *REQUEST & ALERT*
> 
> Ultra, Glenn, Seamaster, and everybody else please don't post anything because you are distracting Clayton.
> Just keep quiet until we hear he's on the plane!!!!!!!!


 
   
  ('Silent One' places the keyboard in silent mode...)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> ('Silent One' places the keyboard in silent mode...)


 
  You need not respond. 
  While my predicament may be perceived by some as a tempest in a teapot,
  you, on the other hand, remain completely calm and silent.
   
_*It's teatime! Literally.*_


----------



## rosgr63




----------



## Clayton SF




----------



## 2359glenn

Shhhhhhh nobody say a word !!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Well Clayton Have a great trip Be safe
   
I know you are going to have a good time
   
And let us know when you get there!!!!


----------



## Seamaster

Guys, don't forget to visit the local vintage audio shop for treasure hunting


----------



## Xcalibur255

I feel like I have no idea what goes on around here anymore.


----------



## Clayton SF

Xcalibur255--
  Here is the Synopsis:
   
  Clayton SF: In Amsterdam August 15-23
  Ultrainferno / Clayton SF: In Belgium August 23-26, Beer bust
  Glenn / Stavros: In Greece November 22
   
  Glenn is building amps for 5 people.
  Stavros has sent 30 cases of wine to Ultra-
  Clayton SF has sent 30 tons of something to Ultra-
  SilentOne is being respectful by being the silent one
  Seamaster is building one hail of an amp with a Glenn and designing a Glenn Studio Logo
  longbowbbs is discussing 300B and C3g
  Eee Pee just bought an ss amp (excellent, too!)
  john57 used to have 3 Stax headphones


----------



## rosgr63

*Bon Voyage Clayton!*
   
   
  When you come back we'll talk about some other wonderful drivers like the 328A 4328A 310A to name a few!


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Xcalibur255--
> Here is the Synopsis:
> 
> Clayton SF: In Amsterdam August 15-23
> ...


 
   
  I need one of these daily summaries in order to more adequately follow this thread.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Clayton SF has sent 30 tons of something to Ultra-


 
   
  I'm thinking iPhones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  have a good trip C, let me know when you land!


----------



## Seamaster

I did not expect Clayton is tracking all that, he is not crazy after all


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Xcalibur255--
> Here is the Synopsis:
> 
> Clayton SF: In Amsterdam August 15-23
> ...


 
   
  Now I feel bad, my comment wasn't really meant to be taken so seriously.  Very helpful summary nevertheless. 
   
  I could stand to see more 300B talk here myself, the topic will be of relevance to me this winter hopefully.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   






 Oh, and 6 hours earlier, I announced the completion of my new rig over the weekend. How 'bout some Siemens F2a chat, as well?
   
   
  Preamp: Shindo Laboratory Aurieges w/MM Phono stage
   
  Amps: Shindo Laboratory F2a Sinhonia monoblocks
   
  Power conditioning: Shindo Laboratory Mr.T
   
  Headphones: Stax SR-009; WooAudio WEE
   
  There... that about does it for the afternoon!


----------



## Silent One

Project Calendar~
   
  Glenn and I still need to figure out what my next custom build will be from the studio... can't wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I want to close out 2013 with a bang!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Oh, and 6 hours earlier, I announced the completion of my new rig over the weekend. How 'bout some Siemens F2a chat, as well?
> 
> 
> Preamp: Shindo Laboratory Aurieges w/MM Phono stage
> ...


 
  Silent One,
   
  That is quite a setup and must cost a pretty penny! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  All the talk about the 300B amps is [size=11pt]constantly[/size] in my thoughts ! I would not mind if Glenn built me one. By the same token, I keep asking myself when is enough is enough?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Project Calendar~
> 
> Glenn and I still need to figure out what my next custom build will be from the studio... can't wait!
> 
> ...


 
  Very nice selections. Where are the pictures? What do you use for speaker? I would recommend a proper Stax Energizer with premium parts from the Studio. I am in the design phase with mine.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> All the talk about the 300B amps is [size=11pt]constantly[/size] in my thoughts ! I would not mind if Glenn built me one. By the same token, I keep asking myself when is enough is enough?


 
   
  For a very long time (since University) I have wanted the MC-275. But in the past 5 years, I set my sights on the A-09S. I was going to buy the Yammo the same week the Shindo blocks popped-up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In the same manner I was on the verge of buying the WA5 earlier this spring and the Sansui G-22000 popped-up within hours of my purchase... or so it seemed.
   
  This hobby can really send us, sometimes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This autumn (thereabouts) I'd like to get a '45' or 300B amp from the studio. Or whatever else 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is cookin' in that kitchen!


----------



## Seamaster

I just had salad and a cup of milk for dinner, I am on a Grass Diet. I need to lose 15 lbs in two months.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Very nice selections. Where are the pictures? What do you use for speaker? I would recommend a proper Stax Energizer with premium parts from the Studio. I am in the design phase with mine.


 
  Pix still to come! I have not completed my move into another residence yet. Got a few things stored around the city in different places for now. Should put the rig together by mid-September. If it takes me a bit longer to get settled down, I'll simply setup the rig in my consultant's studio (West Hollywood) for a few months. And go listen to it once or twice a week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Would love to follow both of your leads on the Energizer. Will get a dedicated Stax amp in 2014, but need something in the mean time. Speakers will eventually show up in the second half of 2014.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am soooo struggling with the comment "When is enough, enough"....I cannot grasp the concept....


----------



## Seamaster

How about " Hey, I can always find a way to make this amp to sound better. " --- Seamaster. Ha ha


----------



## Silent One

The real identities of this hobby: By Day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, By Night


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Now I feel bad, my comment wasn't really meant to be taken so seriously.  Very helpful summary nevertheless.
> I could stand to see more 300B talk here myself, the topic will be of relevance to me this winter hopefully.


 
  Oops. It was meant to be a joke too. Kinda like walking into a cocktail party an hour late and having a good friend quickly give you the talking points sot that you can go right to your drinking. Xcalibur255--you're always family. 
   
  Now I really have to pack. I was looking for a gift for someone. Do you realize that scarves are from $350-$750 at the stores on Union Square in SF? Of course if they were amps I'd think nothing of it. Looks like I'll continue my shopping in Amsterdam.  Hehehe.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Silent One,
> 
> That is quite a setup and must cost a pretty penny!
> 
> ...


 

 I ask myself this question pretty often actually, wondering if I'm obsessed with getting new gear all the time.  I decided that once I have 300B monoblocks that will truly and completely be enough.  I consider the amps Glenn builds for me to be "end game" and have no intention of looking at buying other amps once the 45 headphone amp and the 300B monos are anchoring my headphone and speaker systems.
   
  I've wanted to build up a new speaker system for a really long time actually.  My current setup is closing in on being 14 years old so it's not like I cannot stick with something when I like it.  But, no matter how much I enjoy headphones there is something about listening on speakers that just feels right and I want to get my speaker setup up to the same performance level that my headphone system will be at, hence some new 300B monos.  From there it will be a matter of slowly building up the supporting gear to finish the setup.  Probably an NAD M51 to function as DAC and digital pre and some Zu Audio speakers to finish it all out.  I suspect each upgrade will happen in its own calendar year but the monoblocks will get me started on that beautiful DHT tube sound and give me the encouragement to finish the system once I have them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I ask myself this question pretty often actually, wondering if I'm obsessed with getting new gear all the time.  I decided that once I have 300B monoblocks that will truly and completely be enough.  I consider the amps Glenn builds for me to be "end game" and have no intention of looking at buying other amps once the 45 headphone amp and the 300B monos are anchoring my headphone and speaker systems.
> 
> I've wanted to build up a new speaker system for a really long time actually.  My current setup is closing in on being 14 years old so it's not like I cannot stick with something when I like it.  But, no matter how much I enjoy headphones there is something about listening on speakers that just feels right and I want to get my speaker setup up to the same performance level that my headphone system will be at, hence some new 300B monos.  From there it will be a matter of slowly building up the supporting gear to finish the setup.  Probably an NAD M51 to function as DAC and digital pre and some Zu Audio speakers to finish it all out.  I suspect each upgrade will happen in its own calendar year but the monoblocks will get me started on that beautiful DHT tube sound and give me the encouragement to finish the system once I have them.


 




   
  I too, miss the magic of speakers. And I'm finally addressing this with the new rig. I have the Stax standing in until I can get speakers, so I decided to go with amplification first. And enjoy the music during the upgrade/transition.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Now I really have to pack. I was looking for a gift for someone. Do you realize that scarves are from $350-$750 at the stores on Union Square in SF? Of course if they were amps I'd think nothing of it. Looks like I'll continue my shopping in Amsterdam.  Hehehe.


 
  I did not realize scarves were a necessary Leiderhosen accessory....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I did not realize scarves were a necessary Leiderhosen accessory....


 
  Leather and Scarves.
  Yes!
  Ultra- and I will be _the_ fashion statement much to the chagrin of his gf.
  We're to sexy for our amps, too sexy...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Now I really have to pack. I was looking for a gift for someone. Do you realize that scarves are from $350-$750 at the stores on Union Square in SF? Of course if they were amps I'd think nothing of it. Looks like I'll continue my shopping in Amsterdam.  Hehehe.


 
   
  C! Scarves are like 5$ a piece here!! You're looking in the wrong stores, she's got dozens of cheap fake - use 'em twice and they're worn off - scarves. She loves that.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Leather and Scarves.
> Yes!
> Ultra- and I will be _the_ fashion statement much to the chagrin of his gf.
> We're to sexy for our amps, too sexy...


 
   
  You should see our pool outfits!


----------



## rosgr63

I've been away to sleep and the thread has two more pages!!!!!!!!!
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I feel like I have no idea what goes on around here anymore.


 
   
  Two very naughty people (me and C) talking about audio, mixed with food, tubes, drink etch.......
  I apologised to SO in advance, I could see it coming.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Oh, and 6 hours earlier, I announced the completion of my new rig over the weekend. How 'bout some Siemens F2a chat, as well?
> 
> 
> Preamp: Shindo Laboratory Aurieges w/MM Phono stage
> ...


 
   
*Congratulations SO!*
  That's an awesome rig, enjoy it!!!!!
   
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> Silent One,
> 
> That is quite a setup and must cost a pretty penny!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Three years ago, I swore I would never buy another tube or more audio gear.
  Now my addiction is even worst, ended up in addition to the 6SN7's, 6AS7's, 300's and PX4's with 45's, VT-52's 6A3's, 6BL7's, 6336A's and the gear to use them.
  Glenn has definitely helped to make the situation much worst.
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I am soooo struggling with the comment "When is enough, enough"....I cannot grasp the concept....


 
   
  Eric when you find an answer please let me know.
  Or better still book me a room in a nice lunatic asylum with a forrest view! 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Oops. It was meant to be a joke too. Kinda like walking into a cocktail party an hour late and having a good friend quickly give you the talking points sot that you can go right to your drinking. Xcalibur255--you're always family.
> 
> Now I really have to pack. I was looking for a gift for someone. Do you realize that scarves are from $350-$750 at the stores on Union Square in SF? Of course if they were amps I'd think nothing of it. Looks like I'll continue my shopping in Amsterdam.  Hehehe.


 
   
  That's really bad Clayton.
  I am sure you don't need to shop more, just be good will ya?
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I did not realize scarves were a necessary Leiderhosen accessory....


 
   
  The only piece of clothing they are left with after the 3rd pint.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Leather and Scarves.
> Yes!
> Ultra- and I will be _the_ fashion statement much to the chagrin of his gf.
> *We're to sexy for our amps, too sexy...*


 
   
  Playing the song as I type.........
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> C! Scarves are like 5$ a piece here!! You're looking in the wrong stores, she's got dozens of cheap fake - use 'em twice and they're worn off - scarves. She loves that.
> 
> 
> You should see our pool outfits!


 
   
  Ultra please don't encourage Clayton.
  Tell him the shops are closed for the rest of the summer!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  I hope your gf is strong willed and doesn't let you and C misbehave.........
  I do hope she takes control.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *rosgr63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I hope your gf is strong willed and doesn't let you and C misbehave.........
> I do hope she takes control.


 
   
  Funny. I was telling her that last night and she said: when there's wine involved, you'll have to be the one looking out for me. So someone better come check up on us if neither of us hasn't posted for a few days


----------



## rosgr63

I will send D over if I feel you're getting too drunk and disorderly.
   
  He can take lots of drink and he's a fantastic dancer!!!!!!!!
   
  His wife tries to control him but she can't, so it could be a bad idea after all.
   
  The only solution is the Port Police!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm not sure D would be a good influence 
   
  All this reading of the Woo Wee and the energizers have made me interested in combining it with Glenn's 300b amp and getting some headphones for it. Uh oh


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I ask myself this question pretty often actually, wondering if I'm obsessed with getting new gear all the time.  I decided that once I have 300B monoblocks that will truly and completely be enough.  I consider the amps Glenn builds for me to be "end game" and have no intention of looking at buying other amps once the 45 headphone amp and the 300B monos are anchoring my headphone and speaker systems.
> 
> I've wanted to build up a new speaker system for a really long time actually.  My current setup is closing in on being 14 years old so it's not like I cannot stick with something when I like it.  But, no matter how much I enjoy headphones there is something about listening on speakers that just feels right and I want to get my speaker setup up to the same performance level that my headphone system will be at, hence some new 300B monos.  From there it will be a matter of slowly building up the supporting gear to finish the setup.  Probably an NAD M51 to function as DAC and digital pre and some Zu Audio speakers to finish it all out.  I suspect each upgrade will happen in its own calendar year but the monoblocks will get me started on that beautiful DHT tube sound and give me the encouragement to finish the system once I have them.


 

 To get the most out of your 300B you need efficient speakers and the Zu audio are a good choice.
  Remember that with efficient speakers you will be able to also try your 45 headphone amp to drive the speakers.
  I know only 1.5 watts but it supposed to be the best sounding tube and don't forget the 46 with a adapter.
  I have made adapters for 45 amps to use 46 tubes and was told the 46 sounds better then any 45.
  If I was to make you a 300B amp I would use the C3g as the driver.
  Ask Clayton when he comes back how these amps sound and might sound better if we use Lundahl transformers.


----------



## rosgr63

Just got in some 7193 NIBs, they look great!
  Hope to try them soon.


----------



## Silent One

Pix?


----------



## Clayton SF

Okay. I've not packed yet.
   
  BUT.
   
  I just checked in and my seat was automatically reassigned.
  It apparently has been upgraded.
  Who did this?
  Ultra-. Did you upgrade my seat?
  Stavros?
  Glenn?
  Anybody?
   
  Anyway, Thanks!


----------



## rosgr63

Here they are, waiting for my adapter so I can test them.


----------



## rosgr63

Good morning Clayton,
   
7 hours to go............


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Here they are, waiting for my adapter so I can test them.


 
   





 Yum-o!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Clayton, shouldn't you have boarded already?


----------



## rosgr63

We were worried you were supposed to be in Amsterdam this morning!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> If I was to make you a 300B amp I would use the C3g as the driver...... might sound better if we use Lundahl transformers.


 
  Next project, check.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Okay. I've not packed yet.
> 
> BUT.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Clayton, have yourself a most brilliant flight! Have fun during your stay. Then have more fun just to make sure you ARE in fact, having fun.


----------



## 2359glenn

6 hours now Clayton
Must be excited now !
   
   
100 days 8hrs till my flight takes off


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I did not realize scarves were a necessary Leiderhosen accessory....
> ...



Right Said Clayton!


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi,
  Thanks to all for the countdown and well wishes.
  I am now heading out of my apartment and to the subway to catch the BART train to SFO. I may check in at the airport and send some pix if I can.
  Tot gauw,
  Clayton


----------



## rosgr63

Bon Voyage!!!!!!
   
Have a nice holiday.


----------



## 2359glenn

Pictures would be great.
  Let us know when you land  if you can so we know you are OK.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Have a safe flight C. Gf says hello. Keep me posted when you're in your hotel sipping on a beer


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> To get the most out of your 300B you need efficient speakers and the Zu audio are a good choice.
> Remember that with efficient speakers you will be able to also try your 45 headphone amp to drive the speakers.
> I know only 1.5 watts but it supposed to be the best sounding tube and don't forget the 46 with a adapter.
> I have made adapters for 45 amps to use 46 tubes and was told the 46 sounds better then any 45.
> ...




Remember when I first talked to you about 300B monoblocks I mentioned O'netics transformers? I think this will be the way to go.


----------



## john57

Seamaster,
   
Are you using the Tannoy Turnberry speakers?  Using dual concentric drivers?
 I have my Equator D5 as my secondary near field concentric studio monitors.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Clayton is at the airport (SFO). He sent me this to post here:


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I mentioned O'netics transformers? I think this will be the way to go.


 
  Tell us more about those transformers, please
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> Seamaster,
> 
> Are you using the Tannoy Turnberry speakers?  Using dual concentric drivers?
> I have my Equator D5 as my secondary near field concentric studio monitors.


 
  Yes, with [size=small]dual concentric drivers[/size], that the only model I can afford right now. I prefer their 12" driver speakers. They were muddy sounding when I got them. Those speakers can do bass! I knew my house is on a wood frame with crawl space under. So I bought a pair of 18"x12"x3" granite block that weight 77.5 lbs each (ouch, my back) and put then under the speakers, this also riase the drivers to my ear level.  They sound clean and balanced without bass boom right now. The best part, they are not picky on placement.
   
  I am going ask Glenn to build a 300B speaker amp next year, then I am planning to DIY a bigger Tannoy copy with 12~15" drivers.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I am soooo struggling with the comment "When is enough, enough"....I cannot grasp the concept....
> ...


 
  That would be the view from my Man Cave window....


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton, Welcome to Amsterdam!!!!
   
  The eagle has landed 10mins ahead of schedule.
  I wish Clayton a wonderful holiday.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> That would be the view from my Man Cave window....


 
   
  My French Tube Mentor Bruno and I have booked two caves in India for retirement.
   
  But these caves are for wise people not me.............
   
  With all this speaker talk, maybe I should get my Infinity speakers out.
  But then again no..........I am a headphones person, they'll never fit in my cave!!!!!!!!!


----------



## CEE TEE

Have a great time, Clayton!!  _We need some tube amp smileys..._


----------



## Ultrainferno

Clayton just mailed me he's at Amsterdam Airport. Flight was good


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm here. Ultra- said to have a drink on him. So I will. Stavros, yes, I landed 10 min. Early. You are tracking me!  I am now waiting for my luggage. 

Dag!


----------



## rosgr63




----------



## john57

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> My French Tube Mentor Bruno and I have booked two caves in India for retirement.
> 
> But these caves are for wise people not me.............
> 
> ...


 
  Speaking of Infinity,  On the 27th  the owner of PS Audio is showing off his new acquired Iconic Infinity IRS V Loudspeaker at PS Audio headquarters in Boulder, CO  to the CAS group. That would never fit in my house!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'm here. Ultra- said to have a drink on him. So I will. Stavros, yes, I landed 10 min. Early. You are tracking me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Have a good time!


----------



## Seamaster

Viiiiiiisit theeeeeeeeeee looooooooooooooooocal auuuuuuuuudio shoppppppppppppppppp Claytonnnnnnnnnnnnn!


----------



## rosgr63

Before you have a drink...........


----------



## Clayton SF

Any particular audio store in mind?


----------



## Skylab

I had a very good time in Amsterdam when I was there, although it was a business trip. Nice city, Clayton I hope you have fun!


----------



## Xcalibur255

john57 said:


> Speaking of Infinity,  On the 27th  the owner of PS Audio is showing off his new acquired Iconic Infinity IRS V Loudspeaker at PS Audio headquarters in Boulder, CO  to the CAS group. That would never fit in my house!




The IRS V system is crazy big. I remember being blown away by pictures of them in an owners house from AVSforum a long time ago.

My Infinity Interludes have been good speakers for more than 13 years now. A shame the brand has gone into decline.


----------



## john57

Yes, it is a shame that Infinity has gone into decline. I am still impressed by Thiel which was my all time favorite of dynamic floor speakers. However I had a few bones to pick about their customer support so I sold mine.


----------



## rosgr63

I am wondering how many people had a 5998 arc over?
   
  I did with one of my SP's sometime ago, but I have been lucky with my Glenn OTL.
   
  I know Xcalibur had a 5998 arc over, any others?
   
  Clayton is having a great time, he has't posted since his arrival.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I had one Chatham 2399 go all crazy on me.


----------



## 2359glenn

I had a 2399 arc over and blow a pair of headphones also I had a
  Chatham 6336 arc over that I was going to give to Stavros. So I got
  some GE 6336s with different construction and graphite plates for
  the amp I made fore Stavros.
  I would have been quite upset if I gave him a gift that blew his
  headphones up. Worse yet I was sitting next to him when we tried
  the 6336. Then we were using the GEs.
  Anybody that is going to use the 6336 and there is not many amps
  that can handle this tube.   *Do not use the Tung-Sol Chatham 6336*
  use GE , RCA , or Cetron.


----------



## 2359glenn




----------



## rosgr63

That makes it 4 of us that had 5998's arc overs out of a small group using different amps.
   
  Glenn just as well or else I'll get that *Kira* to bit you.........
  The 6336 you gave me are great tubes!!!!
  BTW I like the perceive the difference sketch!!
   
*Clayton were are you?*
   
  Here is the Cetron 6336:


----------



## Ultrainferno

Clayton is on holiday, he shouldn't be on the internet


----------



## rosgr63

That's right Ultra, just checking.


----------



## dminches

Can you guys at least send 1 picture of you having fun?  C'mon, throw us a bone!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Can you guys at least send 1 picture of you having fun?  C'mon, throw us a bone!


 
   
  He's in Amsterdam now, He'll come to my place 1 week from today


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> That makes it 4 of us that had 5998's arc overs out of a small group using different amps.
> 
> Glenn just as well or else I'll get that *Kira* to bit you.........
> The 6336 you gave me are great tubes!!!!
> ...


 
   Stavros you couldn't get Kira to bite me even if I blew up your headphones.
  The Tung-Sol 6336 blew up in the GR-10 when I tried them at home
  The GEs were great though   Those Cetron's have the same construction as the GEs
  I haven't told these guys that they can use the 6336 in there amps to drive lower impedance
  with more power yet.  Stavros you were the test subject.
  Just they cant use a wimpy rectifier 3DG4 , 5AU4 , GZ37 only or the rectifier will get toasted.
  Perceive the Difference     just had to post some nonsense.


----------



## rosgr63

Too right, I couldn't make her bite you even if I tried!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

I am also going to try the 6336 tubes in the older version of the amp
  as soon as I get the new pot in for Xcalibur255s amp.
  These amps also should have no problem using the 6336 and will
  be able to drive lower impedance headphones better than a 6AS7.
  It might drive Tyrells new headphones better.
  Even though he is getting a new amp he might still like the sound of
  a OTL.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I will always love the sound of my otl. You might not remember Glenn but we talked about the 6336 a long time ago. I recall you said it would push the power tranny pretty hard so I never did try it. We will have to compare the 6336 and the 5998. I'm a huge fan of the 5998 despite losing my headphones to them so the 6336 will have to be quite the tube to beat it.


----------



## Skylab

rosgr63 said:


> I am wondering how many people had a 5998 arc over?
> 
> I did with one of my SP's sometime ago, but I have been lucky with my Glenn OTL.
> 
> ...




I also had a 5998 arc, and it took out a pair of Beyer DT-990 600 ohm drivers. Good thing the headphones were not on my ears at the time.


----------



## 2359glenn

I figure while I have the amp I mite as well try them and run it for awhile and see if the transformer gets hot. The new amps use a different transformer made by Heybore transformer. It had the same specs except it has two 115 volt primary so it can be wired for 115 or 230 volts . A better transformer for less money. The new transformer just got worm far from being to hot.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I figure while I have the amp I mite as well try them and run it for awhile and see if the transformer gets hot. The new amps use a different transformer made by Heybore transformer. It had the same specs except it has two 115 volt primary so it can be wired for 115 or 230 volts . A better transformer for less money. The new transformer just got worm far from being to hot.


 
   






 Last year, the accounts provided by you and Xcalibur255 left me timid, with the '5998.' HOWEVER, I am proud to own the OTL and will have it near my other amps on the rack awaiting a play date. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Think my OTL is gonna kotow to Shindo, Pioneer or Sansui? Think again! Each amp will have its place
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 inside my listening sessions. Especially 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 our next build together. I'm just waiting on my buddy "X" to get taken care of!


----------



## GrindingThud

Mee too....just call me sparky. 



rosgr63 said:


> That makes it 4 of us that had 5998's arc overs out of a small group using different amps.
> 
> Glenn just as well or else I'll get that *Kira* to bit you.........
> The 6336 you gave me are great tubes!!!!
> ...


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Rob and GT.
   
  What I do now is I have a Grado cable extension plugged in, turn the amp on for 5mins and then plugin my headphones.
  I do this so I don't wear out my OTL socket.
   
  In another thread I mentioned that 5998's randomly may arc over and an MOT's didn't like it.
  I am not starting a scare just an observation, and a warning to people that it can randomly happen, that's all.
   
   
*I am very pleased to report that Clayton is having a great time!!!!!!!!*


----------



## Ultrainferno

Special guest means special beer:
   

   
   
  I scored us a couple of rare, multiple winner of the Best Beer of the World Award "WestVleteren 12 Trapist"!
  I hope he'll like it, might be one of the only times he'll get to drink it


----------



## rosgr63

Well done Ultra, they look very nice.
   
  Is there a tube hidden inside the bottle?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Well done Ultra, they look very nice.
> 
> Is there a tube hidden inside the bottle?


 
   
  They wouldn't fit!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Special guest means special beer:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  So, if they are empty when he arrives you will tell him they are commemorative bottles?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> So, if they are empty when he arrives you will tell him they are commemorative bottles?


 
   





 You be the clever one!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Special guest means special beer:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Wow, awsome beer, at 10.2% achool, let us know how many Clayton can handle, introduced in 1940leave a bottle to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
http://www.beerboxx.com/belgian-beers.html


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Special guest means special beer:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Great! Though I do not drink beer, those are some fantastic looking bottles, with an appearance of calm and mystery. And will likely be anything but!


----------



## john57

For me I am enjoying our local Peach Festival in town.
   
Over 30,000 pounds of Certified Organic Peaches from Morton's Orchard's in Palisade, CO
500 fresh peach pies
  [size=small]100 9 x 12 pans of peach cobbler [/size]
Over 2,500 servings of Peach Smoothies 
   
  The peach smoothies are gone in about 2 hrs.
  I got lucky and was able to get a peach pie.
  The peaches are gone by 11:00am
  All happening in a town of 23,197 residents


----------



## rosgr63

Come on guys, get serious!!!!!!!
   
  And I thought I was the only bad one...........................
   
  John that looks fantastic, any smoothie competitions I can enter???
   
  Eric how is the W4S coming along?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Come on guys, get serious!!!!!!!
> 
> And I thought I was the only bad one...........................
> 
> ...


 
  I am at about 150 hours. I have had it running almost continuously since it arrived. Great Space and clarity. I really like how it is settling in. This is a big upgrade from stock. On a side note since it is now native OS-X with no driver required I have no sync trouble anymore with video and usb.


----------



## CEE TEE

ultrainferno said:


> Special guest means special beer:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Love this beer, have had it a couple of times...I recommend a wine glass to get the complex nose. Cheers!


----------



## wotts

Those beers look amazing. I might have to go break something special out now.


----------



## rosgr63

Chief Officer, please get them back into shape, or else the LAB is sailing nowhere.
   
  All they talk about is drink!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  Otherwise I am going to post tube photos.


----------



## Silent One

Yes tubes... they're back in fashion!


----------



## rosgr63

Ai Ai Sir!!!!
   
  This is a sealed VT-52, made by.............?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Clayton lets me know he's enjoying the Dutch hospitality, and he's not in jail (yet)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Chief Officer, please get them back into shape, or else the LAB is sailing nowhere.
> 
> All they talk about is drink!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Otherwise I am going to post tube photos.


 
  Pictures of Tubes and Tube amps is our best weapon to shape up this lot....We can't hide the Grog, Ultra has the key to the liquor cabinet....
   
  I wonder how these would sound in a Glenn amp?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Sent them to me and I'll let you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I do think Glenn can answer that, if I remember well he owned a pair in the past


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Sent them to me and I'll let you know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It is amazing what these tubes are going for. Are they really that good or are they just a status symbol in the tube world?


----------



## Skylab

rosgr63 said:


> Ai Ai Sir!!!!
> 
> This is a sealed VT-52, made by.............?




My guess is National Union.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Clayton lets me know he's enjoying the Dutch hospitality, and he's not in jail (yet)


 
   
  I am very pleased he's having a good time!
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Pictures of Tubes and Tube amps is our best weapon to shape up this lot....We can't hide the Grog, Ultra has the key to the liquor cabinet....
> 
> I wonder how these would sound in a Glenn amp?


 
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> It is amazing what these tubes are going for. Are they really that good or are they just a status symbol in the tube world?


 
   
   
  The early production ones are very expensive.
  Imagine paying $5000 for a pair that could fail in 18 months????????


----------



## rosgr63

You are close Rob, here is one of my NU pairs:


----------



## dminches

Is anyone interested in a pair of NOS Centron 6336s? I can get a quad but only want a pair. PM me if you are.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Would these substitute "any" 6AS7G in any OTL amp or just in the Glenn OTL? If they can be used with an adapter or something I'm interested David.t
  he 6336 is 4.75 ampere compared to 2.5 ampere in a 6AS7G. Glenn, any info? thanks!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Ai Ai Sir!!!!
> 
> This is a sealed VT-52, made by.............?


 
   
  Raytheon!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Would these substitute "any" 6AS7G in any OTL amp or just in the Glenn OTL? If they can be used with an adapter or something I'm interested David.t
> he 6336 is 4.75 ampere compared to 2.5 ampere in a 6AS7G. Glenn, any info? thanks!


 
   
  You can't substitute 6AS7 with 6336 in most OTL amps.
  Even some of Glenn's early OTL's may not be able to handle them.
  As you pointed out they require twice as much current so the transformers must be sized to handle it.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Raytheon!


 
   
  No, Rob's guess is closer.............
   
   
*EDIT:* Glenn knows what they are, but he better say nothing.


----------



## rosgr63

Eric there is a bid on a pair of WE 300B for $2000 as we speak.
   
  However it may prove to be a costly mistake, if you look carefully there is no getter left, unless the photo is very bad.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> No, Rob's guess is closer.............
> 
> 
> *EDIT:* Glenn knows what they are, but he better say nothing.


 
   
  My guess was educational, as Raytheon made them originally. What year you got?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Eric there is a bid on a pair of WE 300B for $2000 as we speak.
> 
> However it may prove to be a costly mistake, if you look carefully there is no getter left, unless the photo is very bad.


 
   
  Will the interest here be for a rebuild by someone? How do rebuilds sound compared to their original counterparts anyway?


----------



## Skylab

VT-52: Hytron?


----------



## rosgr63

I don't know as I am not going to open the box.
   
  It's a replacement for a tube which was not NIB as the seller thought.
  The seller is a young friend who already sold me four and he sent me the tube in the photo at a very discounted price.
   
  He lives very close to Glenn, I am working on him to visit the studio, when Glenn has time of course.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Will the interest here be for a rebuild by someone? How do rebuilds sound compared to their original counterparts anyway?


 
   
  Re issues are supposed to come out next year.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> VT-52: Hytron?


 
   
  No, here is one of my Hytrons:


----------



## Skylab

Hmmmm...well the only other maker of that tube I am aware of is Tung-Sol but tht doesn't look like any Tung-Sol package I've ever seen...


----------



## rosgr63

Raytheon were the people who designed and made this tube first.
   
  NU, Hytron, RCA, Sylvania and XXXXXX made them too.
   
  There maybe more makers but these are the ones I have.


----------



## Oskari

Do the WE patent numbers mean... WE?


----------



## Silent One

I ignored the box since it may not be the original box. Looks like the answer is going to be a two-parter: actual Mfg & the Re-brander.


----------



## rosgr63

Good evening Oskari, pity you didn't win the javelin at IAAF!
  WE indeed.
   
  Here's a photo of my other open ones.
   
  Rob was close because there is a theory that NU made them for WE.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Good evening Oskari, pity you didn't win the javelin at IAAF!
> WE indeed.


 
   
  I think most of us will be happy that we got something.
   
  Not a lot of hints in your (
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) original photo.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Eric there is a bid on a pair of WE 300B for $2000 as we speak.
> 
> However it may prove to be a costly mistake, if you look carefully there is no getter left, unless the photo is very bad.


 
  Ah....No. Thanks for pointing them out.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Is anyone interested in a pair of NOS Centron 6336s? I can get a quad but only want a pair. PM me if you are.


 

 David you can use the 6336 in your OTL at least the one I made you . Your amp has the same power transformer as Stavros amp.
  But only use with a strong rectifier 3DG4 , 5AU4 , or GZ37  do not use a 5U4G with these output tubes.
  The amp should drive low Impedance headphones with the 6336


----------



## rosgr63

*Important Notice:*
   
  I heard that pole dancing will be included in the next Olympics.
   
  I am booking front row seats if any of the crew is interested!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Would these substitute "any" 6AS7G in any OTL amp or just in the Glenn OTL? If they can be used with an adapter or something I'm interested David.t
> he 6336 is 4.75 ampere compared to 2.5 ampere in a 6AS7G. Glenn, any info? thanks!


 

*Do not put these in your OTL they will work for a little while then your power transformer will burn up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> *Important Notice:*
> 
> I heard that pole dancing will be included in the next Olympics.
> 
> I am booking front row seats if any of the crew is interested!!!!!!


 

 You know I am interested in watching when are we getting some pole dancers on the boat?


----------



## rosgr63

No, no, no, but we'll be heading to the venue!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Sent them to me and I'll let you know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They sound good in the amp but not $2000 good the JJ don't sound to bad
  I had the WEs and one started loosing the getter so I sold them for a $1000 while they still
  tested as a matched pair. They are still probably running fine.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> No, no, no, but we'll be heading to the venue!


 

 Oh that is right no girls on the boat !
   
  Sounds like a stupid rule to me.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  And you want me to keep order....Right....I'll be with those officers I was frisking....


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn, the pair I am talking about will end up closer to $5000.........
   
  Beter talk to the navigation officer to start planning our course to Rio, 1084 days left!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Eric can I sit next to you please?
   
  The others are going to be too rowdy............I don't want to be disturbed!!!!!
   
*BTW* The pole dancing is a fact, I am not making it up.
  I wonder if they had it in the original games?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have a question for you guys, my mother is looking for cds of good jazz pianists but I have no clue. Any tips?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## rosgr63

If it was for you Ultra, I would say after ten pints it doesn't really matter...........they all sound the same.
   
  Glenn is our Jazz master, he knows.


----------



## Silent One

Instrumental, vocal or a mix of both? Last weekend, my room was filled with Herbie Hancock, Horace Silver, Bill Evans, Joe Sample, Patrice Rushen and Keiko Matsui. Many others for sure, but it was quite the weekend! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Admittedly, I was limited to iPod & pc streaming, with the audio rig not yet all in one place.


----------



## Ultrainferno

As long as it's good


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn, the pair I am talking about will end up closer to $5000.........
> 
> Beter talk to the navigation officer to start planning our course to Rio, 1084 days left!!!!!!!!!


 

 I would have felt guilty if the ones I had went for $5K.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> As long as it's good


 
   
  Good? We're talkin' great!


----------



## Skylab

UF, a few of the true jazz piano masters are Dave Brubeck, Thelonious Monk, Oscar Peterson, and Duke Ellington, just to name a very few that SO didn't.

Some suggestions:

Dave Brubeck: Time Out, Jazz Impressions of Japan, At Carnegie Hall

Oscar Peterson: something Warm, My Fair Lady, Night Train, Louis Armstrong Meets

Duke: Ellington at Newport, Jazz Party

Thelonious: Brilliant Corners, Monk's Music


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks for the tips guys, I'll buy a couple of these albums


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> UF, a few of the true jazz piano masters are Dave Brubeck, Thelonious Monk, Oscar Peterson, and Duke Ellington, just to name a very few that SO didn't.
> 
> Some suggestions:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for weighing-in, Skylab, as I have and/or enjoyed all of these, too. Absolutely luv me some Thelonious Sphere Monk! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Something tells me his mom would really enjoy some Marian McPartland as well.


----------



## Skylab

For modern jazz, I like Patricia Barber a LOT, although for some folks some of her stuff is a bit too modern. She has a couple albums of standards are great...I'd suggest to start with Nighclub.


----------



## Eee Pee

My Dave Brubeck alarm went off!  Brilliant!
   
  Also, regarding Thelonious Monk, try Miles Davis' Bag's Groove.  TM is on point!  And way out there, in a good way.


----------



## dminches

McCoy Tyner


----------



## Seamaster

Wow, from tube talk to pole dancing...... I don't get it why no girls are allowed on the boat?
   
  I am cleaning my tube cabinet, I found some french made 5678WA, are they any good?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *rosgr63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *BTW* The pole dancing is a fact, I am not making it up.
> I wonder if they had it in the original games?


 
  Yeah, the Javelin throw...You had to dance around them as they landed...


----------



## Silent One

System Swaps~
   
  Earlier today, we got to talkin' about Jazz recommendations. And I wanted to add, inside my listening room under normal circumstances, when I play Monk's "Straight, No Chaser" the feet tend to move... involuntarily so! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sometimes, when I swap out a cable, tube or component, this track will have NO swing whatsoever!!! A very telling track for me.


----------



## rosgr63

I also like Chico Hamilton and Sophie Milman, but one of the very best for me is Django Reinhardt.
   
  Seamaster what's inside the Marconi Box?
  In the last one a GEC 6AS7G?
   
  Eric, you're probably right, never thought of that, but you are our classics expert, you know better.
   
  Back to pole dance music now................


----------



## Silent One

Some moons back, I saw Gonzalo Rubalcaba in the L.A. area. Man, smoke 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 was comin' out the kitchen!


----------



## rosgr63

I bet!
  Latin Jazz is excellent.
   
I am going to drift to Buena Vista Social Club with Ruben Gonzalez on piano, Orlando Lopez on bass,  Ibrahim Ferrer and Compay Segundo on vocals to name some of the original band members.


----------



## Silent One

I'm looking to catch Ruben next time he's in the area. And many more artists now that my schedule permits.


----------



## rosgr63

I wish you could but he passed away 10 years ago.
   
  The new band give nice performances here too.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I wish you could but he passed away 10 years ago.
> 
> The new band give nice performances here too.


 
   





 Night time oversight. But through previous PM's, you'll know I've been out of it for about that long. But I'm back, baby!


----------



## rosgr63

I know SO, you are my music mentor and I get a lot of inspiration from your choices, you know that.


----------



## rosgr63

BTW where is Eric gone, I need his help.........


----------



## Silent One

OH! I keep meaning to ask you: what's the latest stance in the EU over Class A vacuum tube amps being banned or at least new ones? I remember there being a push to be more environmentally green in this regard.
   





 He'll likely be up in the next 5 hours.


----------



## rosgr63

Good question SO.
   
  I think there's too many bureaucrats in EU that have nothing better to do but waste public money. 
   
  I've heard horror stories of amps/gear getting confiscated because they don't have the right markings.


----------



## Silent One

Speaking of "Oversight" Government and other, I made a HUGE oversight last weekend. Just when I thought I completed my new audio rig, only this weekend it hit me - what am I gonna put the new gear on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  All that cooking and preparing I did, now it's time to plate and serve and... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 no plates or table! So, now I'm scrambling to find a new audio rack.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Good question SO.
> 
> I think there's too many bureaucrats in EU that have nothing better to do but waste public money.
> 
> I've heard horror stories of amps/gear getting confiscated because they don't have the right markings.


 

 Electronics shipped to the EU have to be RoHS Compliant. This means that it can't contain Lead , Cadmium , mercury , Hexavalent Chromium and other chemicals.
  My amps are not RoHS I use lead baring solder and even if I didn't there is no way that I could afford to have my amps tested at a lab for compliance. Plus I would have to
  have documentation on every part in the amp.  I believe most small company's that make headphone amps are not certified RoHS can't afford to.
  As a Plant Engineer the ******** and expense a company has to go through to sell there product is crazy especially when it is sold in the EU.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Yeah, we rock!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Electronics shipped to the EU have to be RoHS Compliant. This means that it can't contain Lead , Cadmium , mercury , Hexavalent Chromium and other chemicals.
> My amps are not RoHS I use lead baring solder and even if I didn't there is no way that I could afford to have my amps tested at a lab for compliance. Plus I would have to
> have documentation on every part in the amp.  I believe most small company's that make headphone amps are not certified RoHS can't afford to.
> As a Plant Engineer the ******** and expense a company has to go through to sell there product is crazy especially when it is sold in the EU.


 
   
   
  Glenn even if you got RoHS approval tubes don't comply, so I can't see how any tube gear will ever get RoHS approval.


----------



## 2359glenn

Only if they use current production tubes that I think are RoHS
  Hell some of them are made in the EU.


----------



## rosgr63

Exactly, so that counts all NOS out.
   
  To be honest I doubt if all re-isues are RoHS, specially those made outside EU.
   
  What do they use for getter materials and component coatings?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Exactly, so that counts all NOS out.
> 
> To be honest I doubt if all re-isues are RoHS, specially those made outside EU.
> 
> What do they use for getter materials and component coatings?


 

 They have Getter's in Metal halide and Mercury Vapor light bulbs
  So if this RoHS **** is relevant how can they sell Mercury Vapor bulbs and Fluorescent bulbs ?
  And now that Incandescent bulbs have been banned and replaced with compact Fluorescent bulb
  that have Mercury in them.  How can one thing be banned and not the other?


----------



## rosgr63

I have not seen a modern tube stamped with the RoHS mark yet, have you?


----------



## rosgr63

Not to forget the new RoHS2 requirements introduced on the 2nd january 2013!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Not to forget the new RoHS2 requirements introduced on the 2nd january 2013!


 

 I did not even know about this The government worries about this and imported children's toys
  have lead in them and nothing is done about it at least not in the USA.
  To occupied banning light bulbs And replacing them with CFLs with Mercury made over seas
  Eliminating  jobs in the USA.  Are government hard at work..


----------



## rosgr63

That's right Glenn.
   
  RoHS2 means more paper work, no additional substances have been included.
   
  Eric where are you?


----------



## Seamaster

Regulations are for government job security! The US government spending is a big part of GDP.
   
  Government spending at the start of the 20th century was less than 7 percent of GDP. It vaulted to almost 30 percent of GDP by the end of World War I, and then settled down to 10 percent of GDP in the 1920s. In the 1930s spending doubled to 20 percent of GDP. Defense spending in World War II drove overall government spending over 50 percent of GDP before declining to 22 percent of GDP in the late 1940s. The 1950s began a steady spending increase to about 36 percent of GDP by 1982. In the 1990s and 2000s government spending stayed about constant at 33-35 percent of GDP, but in the aftermath of the Crash of 2008 spending has jogged up to 40 percent of GDP.


----------



## rosgr63

BTW a 12AU7 was sold for €2,660.52 yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  Plus €11.71 for shipping...................


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> BTW a 12AU7 was sold for €2,660.52 yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Plus €11.71 for shipping...................


 
  What kind?


----------



## rosgr63

GEC 12AU7.............. my French tube guru just sent me the link.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> That's right Glenn.
> 
> RoHS2 means more paper work, no additional substances have been included.
> 
> Eric where are you?



Working... Got to pay formy toys!


----------



## rosgr63

I need your sound advise please


----------



## dminches

Glenn, how should I set the switch (5998 or 6AS7G) if I use a 6336 in my amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Glenn, how should I set the switch (5998 or 6AS7G) if I use a 6336 in my amp?


 

 Just leave the switch on the 6AS7 setting I haven't tried it on the 5998 setting and measured current yet.
  I no longer put in the 5998 switch after one arced and blew my headphones and my ear was ringing for
  hours.  I probably will not have Internet when I get home called them and they can't even find me on there system.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> GEC 12AU7.............. my French tube guru just sent me the link.


 
  I would not pay more than $100 for 12au7. Sure GEC is better, but is it €2,600 better? Someone just to have "that special one" hum......
https://www.upscaleaudio.com/12AU7/


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> GEC 12AU7.............. my French tube guru just sent me the link.


 
   
  Please share.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I've always used RCA clear tops as 12AU7. what other 12AU7 should I definitely try in my Bottlehead Crack?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Just leave the switch on the 6AS7 setting I haven't tried it on the 5998 setting and measured current yet.
> I no longer put in the 5998 switch after one arced and blew my headphones and my ear was ringing for
> hours.  I probably will not have Internet when I get home called them and they can't even find me on there system.


 
  I can imagine you were like mad scientist, your hair went puffy and covered in smoke 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ha ha.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Please share.


 
  Here it is:
   
  http://www.ebay.fr/itm/GEC-B3291-ECC82-12AU7-/181196074582?_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## Silent One

What kind of hokey operation is the ISP runnin' down there?! Our designer needs his internet!!!


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Here it is:
> 
> http://www.ebay.fr/itm/GEC-B3291-ECC82-12AU7-/181196074582?_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


 
   
  Thanks!
   
  Insane!
   
  Oh, and that's a Brimar tube.


----------



## rosgr63

You are most welcome.
   
  With a fake GEC label.....................


----------



## dminches

Did I overpay? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Stavros told me it was a great buy.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I also like Chico Hamilton and Sophie Milman, but one of the very best for me is Django Reinhardt.
> 
> Seamaster what's inside the Marconi Box?
> In the last one a GEC 6AS7G?
> ...


 
  Hmmm I visited Greece, you live in Greece....Who should be the classics expert around here? BTW, I loved, Patmos, Samos and Delos.....


----------



## rosgr63

Good evening Eric I need you help and sound advise please!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Good evening Eric I need you help and sound advise please!


 
  (Deep sepulchral voice) Ask your question......




heh heh......


----------



## rosgr63

You are a man of the outdoors so you must know how to:
   
  Cure a black eye.
  Deal with a non understanding and mad gf.
   
  When we talked about pole dancing I decided to research the subject in depth.
  I was so engrossed at the educational videos that I didn't notice my gf walked into the room.
  I got a black eye and she kicked me out so I sleep in the garden now underneath the locus trees!
  If that wasn't enough, the cat was so happy to see me lying on the ground she started climbing up the trees, jumping form one to the other and miaouing all night long!
  I gave up at 4:30 and got to work.
  Worst still I am still banned from the house.
   
  Could you please have a word with her and explain that this is one of the new Olympic Games?
  If she says anything about the girls I was watching been naked, just ignore it.
   
   
  Also do tell Glenn not to laugh too much because he's next in her list........


----------



## longbowbbs

It is so sad how simple misunderstandings can escalate!
   
  I recommend jewelry.......


----------



## rosgr63

Tried it and it ain't working!
And neither are flowers or chocolates.
   
  Now I am trying to explain that I wasn't looking only listening to the music.......
   
  The cat is ecstatic can't do enough to please me.
   
  Delos is one of the least known and yet most important ancient islands.
Patmos is one of the holiest islands where St John wrote the Apocalypse. 
Samos is a beautiful island with nice pine forests just south of Chios. 
   
  Shame upon me never been to any of them.


----------



## rosgr63

BTW what are the sonic differences between your original W4S and this latest release?
   
  Or is it too soon to tell.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Here it is:
> 
> http://www.ebay.fr/itm/GEC-B3291-ECC82-12AU7-/181196074582?_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


 
  Sacrebleu!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You are a man of the outdoors so you must know how to:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> ...


----------



## rosgr63

Come on SO, you're supposed to be on my side offering me some compassion.
   
  Music can take you to unexpected paths!


----------



## Silent One

Indeed I am... not that I found my voice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 While we contemplate what's next, I highly recommend some Muddy Mississippi Blues.


----------



## rosgr63

I hope she doesn't through my tubes out...........
   
  Now I am worried, very worried!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  Buddy Guy, perhaps?
   
  Any recommendations please?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I hope she doesn't through my tubes out...........
> 
> Now I am worried, very worried!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
   
  I just checked my library! Let me guide you over to New Orleans for a Hot Gumbo Minute and recommend:
   
  Snooks Eaglin - "Baby, You Can Get Your Gun!"


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks, I'll check it out when I get home.
   
  Any more?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Thanks, I'll check it out when I get home.
> 
> Any more?


 
   
  My night in review~
   
  A Deep-fried Catfish dinner with a glass of Veuve Clicquot in memory of Lee Weiland (Cryo-Parts). And still blasting tunes off the BIG Vintage 1978 Sansui G-22000! Now playing... _Roy Ayers - "Freaky Deaky"_
   
   
  Anyway, I have an outstanding CD - "B.B. King & Friends" that covers tracks from 1950 onward. There's one track on there (V-8 Ford) that'll set you straight! Once you hear the lyrics, you'll understand.


----------



## rosgr63

That's a nice way to spend your evening!!!!!!!
   
  It sounds like a great CD, thanks for pointing it out.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> With a fake GEC label.....................


 
   
  Is it fake? Why do you think so?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> You are a man of the outdoors so you must know how to:
> 
> Cure a black eye.
> Deal with a non understanding and mad gf.
> ...


 

 Not only am I in trouble at home I am in trouble at your home 4000 miles away.   Knowing were your computer is you should
  not be opening E-Mails from me at home save them for work!!!!!
  This gives me something to look forward to in November.  After spending 24hrs with my GF in plains and airports and you know we will be argueing at that point.
  we land in Athens and I get a black eye.  At that point I will be on that list with two woman at the same time something to laugh about in the future.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Tried it and it ain't working!
> And neither are flowers or chocolates.
> 
> Now I am trying to explain that I wasn't looking only listening to the music.......
> ...


 
  Maybe you need to buy her a pole of her own?
   
  We went in the cave of John on Patmos, very cool. We got to place our hands where he was supposed to have received the Revelations. Samos was fun. We toured the ruins of the Temple of Hera. Delos was very small. Not much left of the Oracle.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Is it fake? Why do you think so?


 
  Bruno thinks that the label maybe fake or just stuck on.
   
  I have no idea as I don't use this type of tube and know very little about it.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Not only am I in trouble at home I am in trouble at your home 4000 miles away.   Knowing were your computer is you should
> not be opening E-Mails from me at home save them for work!!!!!
> This gives me something to look forward to in November.  After spending 24hrs with my GF in plains and airports and you know we will be argueing at that point.
> we land in Athens and I get a black eye.  At that point I will be on that list with two woman at the same time something to laugh about in the future.


 
   
  No way Glenn, W thinks the world of you and L, you know that.
  I just thought I would scare you and wipe the smile off your face.
  I am sure you laughed when you found out I was kicked out and slept with cat under the trees.
  You know how many times I got wrong reading your technical emails.
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Maybe you need to buy her a pole of her own?
> 
> We went in the cave of John on Patmos, very cool. We got to place our hands where he was supposed to have received the Revelations. Samos was fun. We toured the ruins of the Temple of Hera. Delos was very small. Not much left of the Oracle.


 
   
   
  I bet it was a great trip, did your wife enjoy it?


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm here in Amsterdam still. Three days until I am at Ultra-'s to help empty his beer collection. 

RCA + Mullard = (Ultrasurprise)


----------



## rosgr63

Hello Clayton, how are you?
   
  I am sure you are having a great time.
   
  Your shipmates have missed you!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Bruno thinks that the label maybe fake or just stuck on.


 
   
  Okay. If it is a fake, it is not a bad fake.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> That's a nice way to spend your evening!!!!!!!
> 
> It sounds like a great CD, thanks for pointing it out.


 
   
  Be sure to watch the Vid, though... the track is from the CD.


----------



## rosgr63

Great song!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  Love it, it definitely cheered me up, Thanks!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

David did you get your Cetron?


----------



## dminches

It is being shipped from Spain so it will take a couple weeks.


----------



## rosgr63

I'll be getting mine from the US, funny world.........


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dminches said:


> It is being shipped from Spain so it will take a couple weeks.


 

 You couldn't find some at a good price in the US with less shipping?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I'll be getting mine from the US, funny world.........


 

 They are identical to the GEs.
  Have you tried any other headphones with the 6336?


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You couldn't find some at a good price in the US with less shipping?


 
   
  There as a quad available but I only need a pair and no one wanted the other pair.


----------



## 2359glenn

Not many amps can use this tube with out burning up.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> They are identical to the GEs.
> Have you tried any other headphones with the 6336?


 
   
  Glenn, I am still on the 6BL7's.
   
  I will try more combinations though.


----------



## rosgr63

I am ready to visit the lotus trees again, the cat is getting all excited!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  Eric any tips or tricks, lying on the ground, trying to get some sleep with the cat climbing up and down the trees is not good at all.


----------



## 2359glenn

Good thing it is not winter yet then you would be keeping the cat worm.


----------



## wolfetan44

Hey, Glenn, well, I've thought up some plans to make my desk space more usable, and considered you as an option for an amp. I need it to work the both the Paradox(modded T50RP, low impedance, ortho) and the HD650. Is this possible?


----------



## rosgr63

*Warning!!!!*
   
  Crew members  must avoid similar situations at all costs.
  But if you are unfortunate enough, do what he did: Call the Chief Engineer to cut you loose.....
   
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be3pjhFMCao


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Hey, Glenn, well, I've thought up some plans to make my desk space more usable, and considered you as an option for an amp. I need it to work the both the Paradox(modded T50RP, low impedance, ortho) and the HD650. Is this possible?


 
   
  Only one amp? I kid I kid, I should really cut down or stop buying (not going to happen, we all know that). I blame Clayton.


----------



## 2359glenn

You never can ketch up with Clayton He asked about another amp. I said put it off and save the money to go to Europe next year.
  Even though selling him one would help me go to Europe.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Catching up Clayton, impossible indeed. But I'm already thinking of ordering a new "special tube" OTL from you as well  as soon as the WA2 goes back to him cause I would have only two OTLs left


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Hey, Glenn, well, I've thought up some plans to make my desk space more usable, and considered you as an option for an amp. I need it to work the both the Paradox(modded T50RP, low impedance, ortho) and the HD650. Is this possible?


 

 What is the low impedance??   Sounds like a OTL running 6336 for the outputs.


----------



## wolfetan44

Huh?





2359glenn said:


> wolfetan44 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, Glenn, well, I've thought up some plans to make my desk space more usable, and considered you as an option for an amp. I need it to work the both the Paradox(modded T50RP, low impedance, ortho) and the HD650. Is this possible?
> ...


----------



## Ultrainferno

What is the impedance of your headphones?


----------



## wolfetan44

Ohh, I think the T50RP is 50 ohms and the HD650 is 300.





ultrainferno said:


> What is the impedance of your headphones?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Btw, does any of you guys have the T90 headphone. Probably the best I've got together with the HE-500. LCD2 isn't close. I'm sure CLayton will want one


----------



## john57

[size=11pt]I have the T70 one of the best closed headphones and one my most conformable as well. [/size]


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  She did. She thought it was funny all of the guys having to wear a towel like a skirt to cover our legs when we went into the cave. We all had shorts on because it was summer.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am ready to visit the lotus trees again, the cat is getting all excited!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Eric any tips or tricks, lying on the ground, trying to get some sleep with the cat climbing up and down the trees is not good at all.


 
  No cat in the tent. They poke holes in my air mattress!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=11pt]I have the T70 one of the best closed headphones and one my most conformable as well. [/size]


 
   
  How do T70/T90 compare to T1? 
   
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> She did. She thought it was funny all of the guys having to wear a towel like a skirt to cover our legs when we went into the cave. We all had shorts on because it was summer.


 
   
  When people visit holy places the people who look after them always ask women and men with shorts to put on something long to cover their legs out of respect for the place. It's a tradition/custom they practice in many places.
  They usually have some clothing handy for the visitors to wear.
   
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> No cat in the tent. They poke holes in my air mattress!


 
   
  Eric, I am not allowed to use a tent, I must suffer for my quest for knowledge (that's against human rights isn't it???).
  Actually the cat hates me, she does all this climbing on purpose to please her, not me.
   
  Glenn, last night your friend Pablo did a Danza Kuduro on me at 4 am!!!!!!!!
   
  I am begging for forgiveness but my gf won't give in yet, another two night to go.


----------



## Errymoose

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> How do T70/T90 compare to T1?


 
  I own both(T70/T1), but the T70 lives at work, so I don't really compare them directly :/
   
  I disagree with a lot of the popular opinion on here that the T70 is particularly bass light.  They are very picky with the seal though.  If they don't seal they do sound anemic (and not just compared to the T1).  I have better results with the beyer gel pads (which are bit too hot) and the hifiman pleathers than with the stock velour pads (which seal terribly, imo).
   
  With a good seal I think they have a similar signature to the T1.  They lack the soundstaging of an open headphone, and the bass doesn't sound  as well textured as getting that level (or slightly higher) level of bass out of the open T1.   Had the gel pads on them at a meet here last year and surprised a few people with how similar sounding they were to the T1 for under half the price ^_^


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for the feedback.
  So T70 with the Beyer Gel pads would be an excellent combination.
   
  It would be like fitting K701's with the K702 Anniversary pads.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> How do T70/T90 compare to T1?


 
  I brought the T70 before the T90 came out.
  The T70 is a closed headphone and the T90 and the T1 are open headphones
  The T70 is very good for vocals, the T1 is more refined and more neutral that the T70.
  The T70 has very clear deep bass but more subtle in showing it just like a concert hall. The T90 I read has more bass energy.
  I wanted a conformable closed headphone and the T70 fit the bill while checking it at the RMAF. At the T1 price I would consider the HE-6 very
  carefully provided you have an amp that can drive them.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks John.
  To me all three Beyerdynamic headphones seem as very good candidates.
   
  Even though I have powerful tube and SS dedicated  headphone  amps I hate power hungry headphones, I feel very strongly about this so no HE-6 in my list.


----------



## Errymoose

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> So T70 with the Beyer Gel pads would be an excellent combination.
> 
> It would be like fitting K701's with the K702 Anniversary pads.


 

 Sound was great with them.  I personally didn't find them terribly comfortable for wearing for any decent length of time.  YMMV.


----------



## rosgr63

Are you referring to the K701 with the Anniversary pads?


----------



## Errymoose

No, the beyer gel pads...


----------



## rosgr63

I see, thanks.
   
  I would say the sound signature depends a lot on the whole system and individual component synergy.
   
  K701 exhibit different  qualities on different systems.


----------



## Seamaster

I bought T1 when they just came out with intro priced at $995 from TTVJ. I sold my T1 after 4 month of ownership. I feel T1 is hard to drive to their best, while tonally fine but lack dynamic and impact. I just never feel I am attached to them when I am listening. I rather to have recabled (copper) HD800 over T1 anytime.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have the T70 and the T90 and I only like the T70 for classical but I do not really "dig" the sound. The T90 is closer to the T1 imo and it is an incredible headphone, better overall (or just better to me). Sound between T70 and T90 is very different (+closed vs open), T70 doesn't have the same number of fans as the T90, probably due to the closed construction + the bass.
   
  I've often considered selling the T70 but nobody is touching my T90 (well Clayton can touch it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
   
  Picking up our amp collector tomorrow morning, 24 hours from now.


----------



## Errymoose

The T70 is really unpopular on here, and it's reflected in the price it goes for in the classifieds... fortunately i enjoy mine enough that for an environment where I require a closed headphone I don't feel the need to go searching for something better...


----------



## Clayton SF

Must plan for my return to the US after Belgium. I've cleaned out my suitcase. It is empty. I have no more clothing to take up valuable space. I wonder how many of Ultra-'s headphones plus the T90 will fit in my suitcase now.


----------



## rosgr63

Hello Clayton, less than 24hrs left before you meet Ultra.
  The beer is cool and the oven is hot.
   
  I like your plan, very clever indeed.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I've been thinking of lending him my 339 for a year, but it's my fav amp!


----------



## rosgr63

Show your caliber Ultra: 330+T90 for Clayton.


----------



## Ultrainferno

In exchange for a tube tester?


----------



## rosgr63

Sounds good to me!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I've been thinking of lending him my 339 for a year, but it's my fav amp!


 

 I can build you a OTL amp that can use 6336s as well as 6AS7s maybe even with a C3g as the driver.
  You can use this while Clayton has the 339.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Oh man, I forgot all about the C3G adapters for the 339 that Clayton will bring. So curious!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Oh man, I forgot all about the C3G adapters for the 339 that Clayton will bring. So curious!


 

 Not sure that they will sound right in that amp with the signal coming off the screen grid and the plate grounded.
  Or they might sound fantastic. It is a much more powerful pentode then a 6SJ7.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Must plan for my return to the US after Belgium. I've cleaned out my suitcase. It is empty. I have no more clothing to take up valuable space. I wonder how many of Ultra-'s headphones plus the T90 will fit in my suitcase now.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Oh man, I forgot all about the C3G adapters for the 339 that Clayton will bring. So curious!




Adapters?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Adapters?


 
   
  You want to be stuck at Brussels train station?


----------



## rosgr63

That gives me enough time to catch the early morning flight and kidnap Clayton!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> That gives me enough time to catch the early morning flight and kidnap Clayton!!!!!!!!!!!!


 

 Can you hold him hostage until I get there in November. You can lock him up in the basement.
  This way I get to meet him this year.


----------



## rosgr63

The bilges (Basement) are for the naughty crew.
   
  Clayton will be held hostage on the bridge!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

So most of the crew is currently manning the bilges? Hope we're not in shallow waters.


----------



## rosgr63

On the contrary, everybody is having a good time whilst Glenn has made me watch the bilges!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  Need some fresh air, I am chocking............
   
  Which 45's are you going to use first?


----------



## 2359glenn

I am down in the bilges building the 45 amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I plan to try them all. I figured the first month is a good time to burn them in a little while the amp itself is still burning as well. I know for certain the Hytrons (Sylvanias) are really NOS but I'm not sure about the rest. Will likely start with the National Unions and the RCAs since they are what I sent to Glenn to take measurements with so I know they'll be working properly.

Maybe next year I can get some globes, I promised myself no new tubes for now.


----------



## Seamaster

I also need some compairsions between different new production 300B tubes. What are you guys think?


----------



## Xcalibur255

The JJs seem to be the cheap go-to option that is preferred.  Glenn likes them and that is good enough for me.


----------



## longbowbbs

Keeping with the nautical theme...I truly cannot FATHOM, (subtle huh?) how some of the 300B tubes can be so expensive. It is like rare wine I guess....JJ's?  Hey Pass the grape juice!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Companies like EML are basically recouping their development costs the only way they can when the product in question is very low volume.  It's good that somebody is still trying to actually innovate and improve electron tube technology.  The old tubes sound great but who is to say things cannot still be improved upon, especially given more modern measuring and manufacturing techniques?


----------



## john57

While tube technology can improve but I have not read a great deal on how a tube can be made to sound better. What is better sound seems not to be clearly defined. While I have JJ tubes which can sound great but have a fair amount of variation from tube to tube.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> especially given more modern measuring and manufacturing techniques?


 
  That is true but also not true. Modern material and manufacturing techniques sure can improve and efficiency and quality (maybe) but skilled labor and designer force were long lost. The decades of experiences of how to make good tubes were lost that experience can not be picked-up just over night. We start with red wine making 101 for now.
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> While tube technology can improve but I have not read a great deal on how a tube can be made to sound better.


 
  Experience and trial and error (red wine making 101) that add cost to end users.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Picking up Clayton in 2 hours!


----------



## Seamaster

One may argue Shuguang has been making tubes since the 60's. Yes they do. But before the 90's China was in a planned economy, factory like Shuguang was just simply making tubes for mass average consumers. They did not pursuit very high quality unlike western tube makers. Also they did not have competition because of the planned economy, their product were guaranteed to be sold. There were no hi-fi market to speak of back then and Shuguang tubes can not be exported to out side of China by western regulations, So.....the explanation of bad quality reputation of Chinese tubes.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Picking up Clayton in 2 hours!


 
  You should warm up your amps for him now.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I am down in the bilges building the 45 amp.


 
   
  Only the grease monkey goes down the bilges.
  The Chief Engineer stays in the control room.  
   
   
  Quote: 





seamaster said:


> I also need some compairsions between different new production 300B tubes. What are you guys think?


 
   
  We have done some evaluation work couple of years ago, check here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/477288/dht-addicts
  and http://www.head-fi.org/t/571323/takatsuki-electric-ta-300b
   
  Blackmore and me have spend over two years researching 300B tubes and in particular the works of Alesha Vaic, Dr Kron, Jack Van de Wale of EML, Svetlana, Tesla, EAT, and WE re-issues.
  Many conversations with Jack, talked to Mr Ennemoser, Ayon, and some of the Italian firms who built some of Alesha's amps.
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Keeping with the nautical theme...I truly cannot FATHOM, (subtle huh?) how some of the 300B tubes can be so expensive. It is like rare wine I guess....JJ's?  Hey Pass the grape juice!


 
   
  If you want to buy one pair only I would go for the Takatsuki, or the KR Globes.
  Unfortunately they command a high price but that's how it is.
   
  Quote: 





seamaster said:


> That is true but also not true. Modern material and manufacturing techniques sure can improve and efficiency and quality (maybe) but skilled labor and designer force were long lost. The decades of experiences of how to make good tubes were lost that experience can not be picked-up just over night. We start with red wine making 101 for now.
> Experience and trial and error (red wine making 101) that add cost to end users.


 
   
  The last European famous vacuum tube designers were Dr Kron and Alesha Vaic.
  Dr Kron has passed away, a man of passion and perfection.
  Alesha is a genius and some firms still use his designs, style and looks.
  Technology, has improved test equipment etc certainly help but tubes are hand made and nothing can beat the human input.
  Some of the materials and manufacturing technics are no longer allowed, and RoHS implications are here to stay.
  Modern tubes have lost some of the magic, and it's not coming back.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  $1800 a pair....Wow!


----------



## rosgr63

That's for a pair of top notch 300B's.
   
  A pair of 33S30's could cost $1600 and they only 5692's.
   
   
  Eric, I can hear you, don't kick me, going back down to my bilges, won't speak again!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Ultra, where is Clayton????????


----------



## longbowbbs

He is in Ultra's basement under a pile of cookies and beer....


----------



## rosgr63

I forgot the cookies, yes of course................


----------



## Silent One

Quote:  





> $1800 a pair....Wow!


 
   






 I choose to see it as a long term investment. And would pull 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




the trigger!


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I choose to see it as a long term investment.


 
   
  That's what I tell my wife every time a small box arrives from some foreign location.  The joke is, she doesn't care.  I think I am trying to convince myself.


----------



## rosgr63

David, you mean she's not mad at you?
   
  Wow, how did you manage that?
  Please tell.......


----------



## dminches

She really isn't.  That's how great she is.
   
  Of course, I also tell her to buy herself anything she wants.  Fortunately for me she isn't a big spender because we would be broke if she spent on herself what I spend on equipment.
   
  And she knows my work week is grueling.


----------



## rosgr63

That's great.
   
  Every time the postman rings the bell my gf gets cold sweat running down her spine.
   
  I am trying to cut down but it's not so easy, so many tubes and equipment out there.
  I will try and be as strong as Xcalibur............I know I said it plenty times before.


----------



## Silent One

I really like audio stories with a happy ending. Sometimes as much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




as song lyrics themselves.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> That's great.
> 
> Every time the postman rings the bell my gf gets cold sweat running down her spine.
> 
> ...


 
   
  When it comes to new purchases the last three years, I made a deal with myself. Or with dude in the red suit. No, not Mr. Clause... the other dude. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway, the deal was I could only make new purchases by liquidating any unused current asset (recycling?). This often took time. And you know how we want audio goodies Johnny-on-the-spot! Instead of raising the cash in 6 days to 6 weeks, sometimes my efforts to save up took 6 months. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   





 However, the silver lining for me is that I'd often be first in line for new releases... eventually.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I love my friends, they always supportive of my needs...


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> $1800 a pair....Wow!


 
  I balked at the price when I saw how much the Takatsuki 300B's go for.  I am still looking for a decent budget pair for my new amp, but buying the amp itself was already a decent chunk of change.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





daigo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That seems to be the unforseen cost for the tube newbies is that tubes could be more than the amp....Until you understand this you could be in for some real sticker shock.


----------



## Silent One

If one is truly fortunate, fine-tuning could be had elsewhere in the system, without spending a fortune on glass alone.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If one is truly fortunate, fine-tuning could be had elsewhere in the system, without spending a fortune on glass alone.


 
  One of the great benefits of Glenn's work and Steve Deckert at Decware too is that they both strive for great sound with inexpensive tubes.
   
  This is much appreciated!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> One of the great benefits of Glenn's work and Steve Deckert at Decware too is that they both strive for great sound with inexpensive tubes.
> 
> This is much appreciated!


 




   
  The Studio saved me a fortune! Understandably, shipping charges back-and-forth
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 were unavoidable. Our resident designer knows we appreciate his art!


----------



## rosgr63

That's spot on Eric.
   
  We should all get a chance to enjoy this hobby without spending a fortune, it's not just for the privileged ones.
   
  I personally like my least expensive low end set ups as much as my expensive high end ones.
   
  When the music starts I enjoy it so much I am happy with whatever I am using.
   
  Down to he bilges again.........


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Down to he bilges again.........


 
  Remember to wash your hands before dinner!


----------



## Xcalibur255

So you prefer the KR tubes over EML Stravros?

BTW don't tell Glenn he can't leave the control room,there will be nobody to build my amp then!


----------



## CEE TEE

I just found some used EML Solid Plate 300B on Echo Audio for $300 due to a nice member posting a link...have preferred them on my amp against the mesh plates and they will back-up/vary the KR PX-4 I have. So patience and luck can help with the popular tubes too.
   
  These unusual tubes Glenn uses are less expensive, interesting, and some are really beautiful or cool. I am very interested in hearing some Glenn configurations!


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> I just found some used EML Solid Plate 300B on Echo Audio for $300 due to a nice member posting a link...have preferred them on my amp against the mesh plates and they will back-up/vary the KR PX-4 I have. So patience and luck can help with the popular tubes too.
> 
> These unusual tubes Glenn uses are less expensive, interesting, and some are really beautiful or cool. I am very interested in hearing some Glenn configurations!


 
   
  I'm leaning toward getting some EML mesh plates for a budget upgrade for 300B tubes eventually.  Ordered a few NOS 6SL7's for the time being and see how the output tube affects the sound of the EC Equilibrato SE I picked up.  Also would help if I can find time to set up the amp in a permanent position but I've been so busy lately.


----------



## Ultrainferno

We're still alive guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Now it's time for brunch and then the listening session can start


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So you prefer the KR tubes over EML Stravros?
> 
> BTW don't tell Glenn he can't leave the control room,there will be nobody to build my amp then!


 
   
   

   I am hooked on my AVVT AV300BSL-C37.
  I never tried the EML yet, I tend to buy NOS tubes as I can get modern production any time.
   

  Quote: 





cee tee said:


> I just found some used EML Solid Plate 300B on Echo Audio for $300 due to a nice member posting a link...have preferred them on my amp against the mesh plates and they will back-up/vary the KR PX-4 I have. So patience and luck can help with the popular tubes too.
> 
> These unusual tubes Glenn uses are less expensive, interesting, and some are really beautiful or cool. I am very interested in hearing some Glenn configurations!


 
   
  That's a bargain CT, well done!
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> We're still alive guys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Brunch?
  I thought you never stopped eating..............
  How are you all?
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Remember to wash your hands before dinner!


 
   
  Ai, Ai, Sir!
  Your wish is my command.


----------



## CEE TEE

^Thanks, rosgr...I let Daigo know he could borrow the EML 300B Solid Plates if he wants to try them.  (He's a local. *Other locals* let *me* borrow the EML Solid & Mesh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## rosgr63

That's great team spirit I like it, very nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I dropped of Clayton this morning so he could start his long journey back. I've had a great time. I hope he did too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I'll let him tell you all about it when he gets back. For now I'll give you this


----------



## rosgr63

*Fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!*
   
Pleased you had a great time, until next time.........
   
We wish Clayton Bon Voyage.


----------



## 2359glenn

I am glad to here that you guys had a good time and I bet Clayton didn't want to leave.
  Did you guys try the C3g in your 339 in one of your listening sessions ?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I dropped of Clayton this morning so he could start his long journey back. I've had a great time. I hope he did too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice shot! I know you both had a great time. Where did you find the Mullard T-Shirts?


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I am glad to here that you guys had a good time and I bet Clayton didn't want to leave.
> Did you guys try the C3g in your 339 in one of your listening sessions ?


 
   
   
  Probably too drunk to remember..........................


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I dropped of Clayton this morning so he could start his long journey back. I've had a great time. I hope he did too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




  Great shot!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I am glad to here that you guys had a good time and I bet Clayton didn't want to leave.
> Did you guys try the C3g in your 339 in one of your listening sessions ?


 
   
  We did have a good time indeed, lot's of wine, beer and way too much food. You will have to ask Clayton, he seemed kind of happy to get on that train 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  We did try the C3G in the 339 and they work, I'm sure C will give his impressions too when he's back.
   
  The C3G sounded good but the EF80 and 6SJ7 sound better. The C3G gave it a more dynamic and faster sound but the Bass didn't have the footprint it has with the EF80 and the mid range sounded tuned down compared to the EF80. The sound was not bad at all but we both agreed the sound with the EF80 was more coherent and had more impact.
   
  I wonder what Clayton is going to say about the 339, he also liked the ss Violectric V200 a lot, but I'll leave the amp and headphone talk up to himself to post on here.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great shot!


 
   
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Nice shot! I know you both had a great time. Where did you find the Mullard T-Shirts?


 
   
  Thanks, I'll tell the gf 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But who is who in the picture...? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  The shirt is one of the gifts I got from Clayton, we had a bit of a gift exchange and even Stavros sent us a present (Thanks man!)
  So I have no idea where he got them, you would have to ask him (he got them in the USA, but where...). I also got two other RCA logo t-shirts in my fav colors. Very nice!


----------



## rosgr63

You are most welcome Ultra, it was nothing really worth mentioning, just a way to say hello, have a good time!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thanks, I'll tell the gf
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well........ since I've previously spent an evening at Clayton's apartment, I'll disqualify myself.


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> ^Thanks, rosgr...I let Daigo know he could borrow the EML 300B Solid Plates if he wants to try them.  (He's a local. *Other locals* let *me* borrow the EML Solid & Mesh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Appreciate the offer, CEE TEE.  I might take you up on the offer once I get the amp settled down in a permanent spot at home.


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thanks, I'll tell the gf
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Since I've met Clayton, I know who's who!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I dropped of Clayton this morning so he could start his long journey back. I've had a great time. I hope he did too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  clayton on the right


----------



## dminches

How do I test a 6336?


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





frank i said:


> clayton on the right


 
   
  I haven't met Clayton or Ultra, but I guess Clayton is on the left, and Ultra on the right.
   
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> How do I test a 6336?


 
   
  David have you received them?
  Put them in the output sockets put the switch to the 6AS7G position and turn the amp on.
  Remember to use a 3DG4/5AU4 rectifier.
   
  Eric, how is your W4S coming along?


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm back after 24.5 hours of travel time! I had such a great time with Ultra- and his gf that didn't want to leave UltraAmpVille. Thank my lucky stars that I had Ultra-'s great company to sit with me on the first leg of my journey back to the US of A. Train stations and Ultra-long trains scare me especially in a strange land. But Ultra- made it all good. Head-Fi has been the best for me. It has introduced me to new amps, new friends, and new families.


----------



## rosgr63

Welcome home Clayton, I know you had a great time, it'll take time to re adjust and recover from jet lag.
   
  I feel exactly the same about head-fi, made some great friends, learned and still learning a lot.
  And all this after over 40 years of headphone listening.........


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Welcome home Clayton, I know you had a great time, it'll take time to re adjust and recover from jet lag.
> 
> I feel exactly the same about head-fi, made some great friends, learned and still learning a lot.
> And all this after over 40 years of headphone listening.........


 

 And thank you for the wines. We drank a bottle. It is a nice wine to drink on a hot day. Hot tube listening day. Here is the view from my bedroom window. The two tubes on the window sill are a gift from Ultra-. He's the perfect host!


----------



## Silent One

Welcome back to _"The City That Knows How..."_
   





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Though, an alcohol emoticon is the last thing I should be toasting you with!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Welcome back to _"The City That Knows How..."_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It is good to be back, SO. Thanks. 
  But I wish I could have dragged Ultra- back with me.


----------



## rosgr63

A nice pair of 5998's!
   
  Enjoy them, nice tubes to have.
  Just remember as a precaution (not an internet scare) to let the amp warm up for 5mins before you plugin any headphones in case they arc over.
   
  You are most welcome about the wine, it's very little known from an Aegean island where the vineyards close to the sea to give it the delicate taste.


----------



## Silent One

I wonder what your travel kit looked like reaching SFO...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I wonder what your travel kit looked like reaching SFO...


 
  Guess what? My luggage and carry-on were stuffed with tubes form Ultra- and it got stopped by security. They pulled the bag aside that had 4 tubes wrapped in bubble wrap. And then the woman asked me. Can I open your bag? I said yes. Then she said, you cant take this bottle of water on your flight, bypassing the tubes. Then I forgot my wallet with my passport in it at the gate and the KLM woman said, "My colleague said you left this." Oh how nice. And how absentminded of me.


----------



## rosgr63

Nice case to carry tubes!!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Guess what? My luggage and carry-on were stuffed with tubes form Ultra- and it got stopped by security. They pulled the bag aside that had 4 tubes wrapped in bubble wrap. And then the woman asked me. Can I open your bag? I said yes. Then she said, you cant take this bottle of water on your flight, bypassing the tubes. Then I forgot my wallet with my passport in it at the gate and the KLM woman said, "My colleague said you left this." Oh how nice. And how absentminded of me.


 
   
  Next time try one of the pouches they hang over unaccompanied children necks with their documents and money!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

If you do, you will be assigned a nice air stewardess to escort you on the plane!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





frank i said:


> clayton on the right


 
   
  I was on the right. I didn't know that half of you had already met Clayton 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'm back after 24.5 hours of travel time! I had such a great time with Ultra- and his gf that didn't want to leave UltraAmpVille. Thank my lucky stars that I had Ultra-'s great company to sit with me on the first leg of my journey back to the US of A. Train stations and Ultra-long trains scare me especially in a strange land. But Ultra- made it all good. Head-Fi has been the best for me. It has introduced me to new amps, new friends, and new families.


 
   
  It was fun indeed. And you got to eat some new food you never tried before! And of course the Chaussée d'amour if you remember....
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And thank you for the wines. We drank a bottle. It is a nice wine to drink on a hot day. Hot tube listening day. Here is the view from my bedroom window. The two tubes on the window sill are a gift from Ultra-. He's the perfect host!


 
   
  Let me know what color the OC3 glow, I'm curious. And Stavros is right about the 5998, let it heat up for a bit, never plug the headphones in right away.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Glenn,
   
  have you seen my comment on the C3G in the 339? I can't seem to have seen a reply, are you disappointed?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Glenn,
> 
> have you seen my comment on the C3G in the 339? I can't seem to have seen a reply, are you disappointed?


 

 I haven't replied because my GF is sick. She got bit by a tic and been sick since. We get bit by tic's all the time
  working out in the horse pasture one time I had 50 of them on me fixing fences. This time she got a bad one went
  to the doctor yesterday and she is being treated for  strep throat and Lime disease now.
   
  Actually I didn't know if the C3g would work at all being run the weird way they are running the 6SJ7.
  It was worth a try though ?
  Did you let Clayton take the 339?  I herd that he is back and well that is good will be looking forward to his posts.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> David have you received them?
> Put them in the output sockets put the switch to the 6AS7G position and turn the amp on.
> Remember to use a 3DG4/5AU4 rectifier.


 
   
  Yes, I received them yesterday.  I was planning on using a GZ37.  I thought Glenn said that was ok too.
   
  I was hoping to test them in my tester.  I guess you are suggesting I just "let them rip."


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm very sorry to hear Glenn, hope she'll be fine. wish her a good recovery from me.
   
  It was worth the try, but I doubt I would ever use them again in the 339 to be honest. Clayton left without the amp, he didn't have any room for it. Lucky me!
  He did like it however, didn't you Clayton?
   
  If you want the adapters back to test them yourself, or if someone else wants to try, let me know.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Eric, how is your W4S coming along?


 
  I am very pleased. With nearly 300 hours on it, I would expect it has settled into its final form. Great upgrade. Now I need to grab some DSD files and see what they bring to the table.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Yes, I received them yesterday.  I was planning on using a GZ37.  I thought Glenn said that was ok too.
> 
> I was hoping to test them in my tester.  I guess you are suggesting I just "let them rip."


 

 It will be OK to use the GZ37 with choke input the GZ37 is rated at 350ma the same as the 3DG4 and 5AU4 The GZ37 is also one of my favorite rectifiers
  just to expensive not sure it will sound any different then the 3DG4 in that amp though.
   
  You can try setting the tube tester up for 6AS7s and test the 6336 you will be at least be able to give it the shorts test. Just don't leave them in
  the tester to long I don't know if the 5amp filament is to much for your tester.
   
  If you don't test them just watch them at first to make sure they don't arc over. I think I already posted what ones not to use.
   
  The 6336 should be better at driving lower impedance phones. Let us know how they sound in your amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm very sorry to hear Glenn, hope she'll be fine. wish her a good recovery from me.
> 
> It was worth the try, but I doubt I would ever use them again in the 339 to be honest. Clayton left without the amp, he didn't have any room for it. Lucky me!
> He did like it however, didn't you Clayton?
> ...


 

 I will see if anyone that has a amp that runs the 6SJ7 conventionally and takes the signal off the plate wants the adapters. I will tell you
  I don't have a amp that uses the 6SJ7 myself.


----------



## Clayton SF

Where am I?
  Amsterdam?
  Brussels?
  The UltraAmpRoom?
  San Francisco?
   
  Stavros! Here's to you and your gift of wine and laughter. We thank you!
   

   
  Yesterday's view from window seat 41A on an AirFrance Boeing 777. Total travel time = 24 hours and 30 minutes. Started in Brussels > Paris > San Francisco!


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> If you don't test them just watch them at first to make sure they don't arc over. I think I already posted what ones not to use.
> 
> The 6336 should be better at driving lower impedance phones. Let us know how they sound in your amp.


 
   
  Oh, there are some 6336s I shouldn't use?  I must have missed that post.


----------



## dminches

Crap.  I bought a pair of Tung Sol 6336s,  And they look so nice....


----------



## 2359glenn

Can you post a picture of them ?


----------



## dminches




----------



## 2359glenn

Those are the good ones they are not made by TS
  They are made by GE or someone else and Tung Sol re branded them
  Use them these are good tubes


----------



## dminches

Excellent.  I will test them tonight.


----------



## 2359glenn

Let us know how they sound


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Where am I?
> Amsterdam?
> Brussels?
> The UltraAmpRoom?
> ...


 
   
  That was a long flight.
   
  I can see two thin, fit young lads enjoying Λημναια Γη.
  It goes well with fish and sea food, and is not a known wine but our favourite.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Tics and lime disease are nasty business. Lots of them in my neck of the woods. Hope L is feeling better soon.


----------



## longbowbbs

Hey Stavros, got some amps for sale at Audiogon...
   
  http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-atma-sphere-ma-1-mk-ii-matched-pair-monoblocks-2013-08-27-amplifiers-10012


----------



## Silent One




----------



## rosgr63

Very nice amps Eric and the price is not too bad.
   
  8X6SN7 and 28X6AS7G, imagine fitting 8X33S30 and 28XWE421A or 28XBendix 6080W or 28XGEC 6AS7G.
   
  That would be $10,500 just for tubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Hey Stavros, got some amps for sale at Audiogon...
> 
> http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-atma-sphere-ma-1-mk-ii-matched-pair-monoblocks-2013-08-27-amplifiers-10012


 
  How large would be my AC needs to be to keep this cool during the hot summer months!


----------



## rosgr63

Come on John, we are talking about hot summer nights no AC allowed!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I can imagine that guy got tired of looking for 28 new matched NOS tubes and decided to sell


----------



## longbowbbs

It would do the job for me during the cold Wisconsin winters.  Holy cow the cost of those tubes though!


----------



## rosgr63

To be fair Eric the cost of Svetlana and other ordinary tubes is not that bad.
   
  But 36 tubes is not so easy to control.


----------



## 2359glenn

Those amps have to use the Russian tubes the US tubes will not hold up in them.
  I was originally planning on my OTL amps only using Svetlana tubes no problems at all
  very little noise.


----------



## rosgr63

*Update:*
   
  I was estimating it could cost $3600 to run my GR Super 10 with 9 B65's.
   
  Well today there is a pair of B65's selling for $2000, which means If I was to dress up my GR Super 10 with my B65's the tubes alone would be:
   
*$9000*
   
  Eric please wake me up I am dreaming..........................
   
  Back down to the bilges.
   
  Glenn your friend Pablo has done another Danza Kunduro on me at 4am when I was lying under the lotus tree.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> *Update:*
> 
> I was estimating it could cost $3600 to run my GR Super 10 with 9 B65's.
> 
> ...


 

 You best leave my buddy Pablo alone he is a good dog


----------



## rosgr63

This morning the cat decided to climb up the lotus tree I was sleeping under.
  Pablo came out and started running around the tree trying to catch the cat.
  In his excitement he peed all over me!!!!!!!!!!
   
  Glenn, you better have a word with your friend, it's the second time he's done it.....


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> *Update:*
> 
> I was estimating it could cost $3600 to run my GR Super 10 with 9 B65's.
> 
> ...


 
  Suddenly the Atma-Sphere is looking reasonable....


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> This morning the cat decided to climb up the lotus tree I was sleeping under.
> Pablo came out and started running around the tree trying to catch the cat.
> In his excitement he peed all over me!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Glenn, you better have a word with your friend, it's the second time he's done it.....


 

 I think he kicked up do on the grass and that is what got all over you.
  You need to start being a good boy and get back in the house before
  it starts getting cold.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Suddenly the Atma-Sphere is looking reasonable....


 
  You can get quads of Svetlana 6AS7s for $24 straight from Russia


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Glenn...You are an enabler!  I don't need more help to lure myself into another amp!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *2359glenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I think he kicked up do on the grass and that is what got all over you.
> ...


 
   
  If he doesn't get back in the house soon, it'll only be a matter of time before we see him around Head-Fi... posting in the "Portables" thread.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Glenn...You are an enabler!  I don't need more help to lure myself into another amp!


 

 Yea I am bad. look what I did to Stavros I gave him a amp that can take all different combinations of tubes right up to 6336.
  Then gave him tubes enough for a taste .


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If he doesn't get back in the house soon, it'll only be a matter of time before we see him around Head-Fi... posting in the "Portables" thread.


 

 I guess I will have to build him a tube battery portable using 3V4 direct heated battery output tubes.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That I would like to see!


----------



## 2359glenn

That is easy The 3V4 was used in battery portable radios It will run with 1.5 or 3 volts on the filament
  and 90 volts on the plate.  So the amp would run on a D battery and a 90 volt battery or 10 9 volt battery's.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Nice shot! I know you both had a great time. Where did you find the Mullard T-Shirts?


 
  Boy, I'm still on Belgium time and I'm still hungry. I must have stretched my stomach out too much 'cause now I am perpetually hungry after leaving Ultra-'s Palace of Sound.
   
  I got the T-shirt here-- (Ultra-, don't look): http://www.tubedepot.com/sw-ts-003.html
   
  I also got him two RCA T-shirts, one in red and one in blue, here: http://shirtboss.com/37-rca-lightning-shirt-1.html


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice. Thanks!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> That I would like to see!


 
   
  Eric, please don't tempt Glenn.
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> That is easy The 3V4 was used in battery portable radios It will run with 1.5 or 3 volts on the filament
> and 90 volts on the plate.  So the amp would run on a D battery and a 90 volt battery or 10 9 volt battery's.


 
   
   
  I think you should tell Eric the truth.
  You actually mean a car battery...............
  Are you ready for the challenge Eric?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










   
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Boy, I'm still on Belgium time and I'm still hungry. I must have stretched my stomach out too much 'cause now I am perpetually hungry after leaving Ultra-'s Palace of Sound.
> 
> I got the T-shirt here-- (Ultra-, don't look): http://www.tubedepot.com/sw-ts-003.html
> 
> I also got him two RCA T-shirts, one in red and one in blue, here: http://shirtboss.com/37-rca-lightning-shirt-1.html


 
   
  Perpetually Hungry?
  That sounds like me Clayton.


----------



## Ultrainferno

If anyone feels like having a read
   
  http://news.sciencemag.org/physics/2012/05/return-vacuum-tube


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Portable seems to be a relative term....


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm hungry!
   

   
  Something C and I had when he was over here: Banana and bacon and garlic butter bread. C didn't get sick, so I guess it was ok 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Fun fact. Clayton was the first one from San Fran that met our mayor. They have a nice pic together


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm hungry!
> Something C and I had when he was over here: Banana and bacon and garlic butter bread. C didn't get sick, so I guess it was ok
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It was more than okay. I ate foods that I didn't even know existed, like Smurfentaart, Filet Americain, and cold pasta salad with tuna and pears (it was pears, wasn't it).
  We also listened to a little bit of music.


----------



## Ultrainferno

It was peach


----------



## rosgr63

No wonder I am perpetually hungry!!!!!!!
   
  Eric, I like your way of positive thinking


----------



## 2359glenn

Hay Ultra do you have enough food for all of us.
  I am always up for some new food that I haven't tried before.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Eric, please don't tempt Glenn.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No not a car battery small batteries
  Here is a picture of a tube that can run on batteries
  Still have to have two output transformers I do have some small good sounding transformers for this tube.


----------



## Seamaster

a super quite amp...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> a super quite amp...


 

 Yes and no these battery tubes are quite micro phonic with there thin filament.
  Supposedly micro phonic tubes sound the best. Not for me though if I know a tube is micro phonic
  it will drive me crazy knowing it is in my amp. It took me months to find a pair of quiet #26 tubes
  for my preamp.


----------



## rosgr63

For me the microphonics are part of a tube's character.
   
  If I can hear in only when I tap the tube but it's quiet otherwise I don't mind at all.


----------



## Errymoose

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm hungry!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Wow, banana wrapped in bacon eh?  I am tempted to try this now...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> For me the microphonics are part of a tube's character.
> 
> If I can hear in only when I tap the tube but it's quiet otherwise I don't mind at all.


 

 Now you've done it there will be one in the mail !
  What are you going to use as a portable source?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

That probably already has a headphone jack in it but a crappy sounding chip amplifier


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> That probably already has a headphone jack in it but a crappy sounding chip amplifier


 
  But it uses Cassettes! I'm sure we can get 24/192 out of them...Maxell right??!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Nothing sounds better then good old Cassettes the only thing maybe is a 8 track.
  That is about as good as it gets especially when you are getting bleed in from the next track.
  Now everyone knows how old I am.


----------



## rosgr63

*No Glenn, please don't!!!!!!!!!!*
   
  Otherwise when you come over you'll find me either in a lunatic asylum or in hospital bitten up by W!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> But it uses Cassettes! I'm sure we can get 24/192 out of them...Maxell right??!!


 
   
   
  I still have my metal tapes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  And my 8 tracks somewhere, I don't know where the reels are.......
   
*Et tu, Eric?*


----------



## 2359glenn

You have no more room for full size amps so I have to resort to something smaller.
  Does W bite ??
   
  You will be getting a box with 6BL7s and maybe some chocolates for N and something for W
  No more amps for awhile.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ultra- sent me home with 1Kg of Chokotoft.


----------



## 2359glenn

Clayton that aught to last you a couple of weeks at least .


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You have no more room for full size amps so I have to resort to something smaller.
> Does W bite ??
> 
> You will be getting a box with 6BL7s and maybe some chocolates for N and something for W
> No more amps for awhile.


 
   
  Glenn can you not be good for once??????
   
  W will definitely send me to the lotus tree permanently if she sees more tubes never mind any kind of gear!!!
   
  I'll have to ask Eric for camping tips and tricks.
  Would a tent and an air bed help?
   
  This is what I currently use for practise:


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > But it uses Cassettes! I'm sure we can get 24/192 out of them...Maxell right??!!
> ...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ultra- sent me home with 1Kg of Chokotoft.


 
   
  Got any left? 
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Clayton that aught to last you a couple of weeks at least .


 
   
  It better!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Glenn can you not be good for once??????
> 
> W will definitely send me to the lotus tree permanently if she sees more tubes never mind any kind of gear!!!
> 
> ...


 

 Tell her they were for free !
  I will hide them at the bottom of the box and have stuff for your brother and her
  on top.  How can she say anything then.
  Then you grab the tubes and run downstairs!


----------



## Xcalibur255

This appears to have developed into a full blown tube smuggling operation.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Tell her they were for free !
> I will hide them at the bottom of the box and have stuff for your brother and her
> on top.  How can she say anything then.
> Then you grab the tubes and run downstairs!


 
   
  She doesn't care if they are free or not.
  I won't be able to wipe the smile off my face, she knows the special glow my eyes have when I get tubes!!!!!!!
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This appears to have developed into a full blown tube smuggling operation.


 
   
  Reminds you of a smuggling ship doesn't it?
   
  It can't get much worst if he Chief Engineer encourages the grease monkey, can it?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Halloween - perhaps, I should skip Clayton SF's place just as well. I mean, it's not like there'll be any candy remaining.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This appears to have developed into a full blown tube smuggling operation.


 

 Tyrell I think you started this smuggling operation sneaking the rare flat plate 6BL7s out of the country.
  I just continued the operation.
  It looks like Stavros GF is trying to break up the smuggling ring before someone gets busted.
  I think this is why Stavros is always down in the bilges the boat is full of rare tubes in the bilges


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Halloween - perhaps, I should skip Clayton SF's place just as well. I mean, it's not like there'll be any candy remaining.


 

 Maybe we can talk him into sending us some before Halloween.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Tyrell I think you started this smuggling operation sneaking the rare flat plate 6BL7s out of the country.


 
  Oh....?  Whatever are you talking about?  *whistles non-chalantly*


----------



## rosgr63

Tyrell is very guilty too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  And the rectifiers............don't forget them.......
   
  He's been very bad indeed!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Maybe he could throw an amp in your treat bag?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


longbowbbs said:


> Maybe he could throw an amp in your treat bag?


 

 I believe that 1Kg of Chokotoft will last me until Halloween. So stop on over and have a few with me. However, the amps are staying tough, unless Ultra- shows up as well, in which case he can help himself to any amp I have. A reasonable trade: Amps for Chocolates.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  (Hmmmm...Somewhere around here I have that Lieven mask....)  Clayton! Nice amp you have there....Have some chocolate!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm gonna set up a Belgian trader shop: amps for chocolates. A 15kg amp = 15 kg of chocolate. who's in?


----------



## Errymoose

will you do beer over chocolate?
   
  belgian beer is best beer....


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm gonna set up a Belgian trader shop: amps for chocolates. A 15kg amp = 15 kg of chocolate. who's in?


 

 That sounds like a good deal for my GF  L  
   
  I have been slacking in building amps due to health reasons I really have to get my ass in gear
  and start cranking out amps.    I hope to get Tyrell's amp mostly finished this weekend.
  Then we will talk about choclates for amps.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm gonna set up a Belgian trader shop: amps for chocolates. A 15kg amp = 15 kg of chocolate. who's in?


 

 Hey All--
  I found a matching pair of chocolate tubes to go into the new GlennChocoAmp! If he can build it without eating it.
  Let's set sail for the Chocolate Islands!


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





errymoose said:


> will you do beer over chocolate?
> 
> belgian beer is best beer....


 
   
  Tell me more.  I may gladly trade audio gear for the right Belgian beers.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ultra- and I drank the best beer in the world. And was it ever one of the best!


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ultra- and I drank the best beer in the world. And was it ever one of the best!


 
  He mentioned earlier while you were traveling that he had found some Westvleteren 12 to celebrate your visit.  Glad you enjoyed it!


----------



## Ultrainferno

And I'm having some more later


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> That sounds like a good deal for my GF  L
> 
> I have been slacking in building amps due to health reasons I really have to get my ass in gear
> and start cranking out amps.    I hope to get Tyrell's amp mostly finished this weekend.
> Then we will talk about choclates for amps.


 
   
  I'm sure we can work something out Glenn


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> And I'm having some more later


 

 What!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  So sad when someone holds out the good stuff on you.....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> So sad when someone holds out the good stuff on you.....


 

 I'm kidding. Actually, he shared the first bottle with me. He just enjoying the second one, too.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Seriously, looks like you guys had a terrific time. Thanks for sharing with all of us!


----------



## CEE TEE

From what I understand, the Belgian monks could only drink a glass a day.
  That's the motivation to make the best beer in the world, gotta make up in quality for a lack of quantity.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey All--
> I found a matching pair of chocolate tubes to go into the new GlennChocoAmp! If he can build it without eating it.
> Let's set sail for the Chocolate Islands!


 
   
   
  Name your price Clayton, just name your price................
  For that box I'll stay down in the bilges until we get to the CI
   
   
  Quote: 





cee tee said:


> From what I understand, the Belgian monks could only drink a glass a day.
> That's the motivation to make the best beer in the world, gotta make up in quality for a lack of quantity.


 
   
  Some monks here do the same with the wine.
  One glass is enough to enlighten your soul..........
  I've yet to manage a second.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just added a pair of these to my collection, they are my fav 6AS7G with the copper posts and they are getting very hard to find lately
   

   
  And I also got these. I love the old style boxes
   


   
  Sorry Stavros, I know this is just making your addiction even worse


----------



## longbowbbs

Tastier than cookies Ultra!


----------



## Ultrainferno

And then I got this one for a friend of min. Really nice rare tube


----------



## Oskari

That's a box. Show us the tube!


----------



## Clayton SF

Thank you, Ultra-, for a most welcomed stay at your place and a chance to meet the Mayor of your town.
  And thank you for that _Processie_ that you arranged to walk in front of your house during my stay with a Belgian farm horse.
  And thank you for the two violet OC3 regulator tubes. They glow fantastically in my Decware Mini Torii.
  And of course, thanks for the two 2399 tubes. They look very unique.
   
  OC3 regulator tubes glowing violet.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice photos Clayton!
   
  Just as well you didn't check who was lying at the back of the wagon, flat out drunk!!!!!!!!!!!!
*ME!!!!!!!!!!!*
   
  Ultra, you are right, here are some from my collection
   
   
   
   

   
   
  And to wet your appetite


----------



## dminches

I think you mean _whet _your appetite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


!  English has too many quirks.


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thank you, Ultra-, for a most welcomed stay at your place and a chance to meet the Mayor of your town.
> And thank you for that _Processie_ that you arranged to walk in front of your house during my stay with a Belgian farm horse.
> And thank you for the two violet OC3 regulator tubes. They glow fantastically in my Decware Mini Torii.
> And of course, thanks for the two 2399 tubes. They look very unique.
> ...


 
   
  Oh, pretty.  Is that your Mini Torii?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I think you mean _whet _your appetite
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 David
  how did the 6336s work out ?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





daigo said:


> Oh, pretty.  Is that your Mini Torii?


 
  Yes it is.
 It is a wonderful amp and very pretty to look at.
  I use it with speakers only.


----------



## rosgr63

Auto spelling doesn't help either!
   
  Thanks David, this is to whet Ultra's appetite


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> David
> how did the 6336s work out ?


 
   
  Glenn, I really liked how they sounded.  I haven't spent enough time with them yet, but I was very pleased.


----------



## daigo

clayton sf said:


> Yes it is.
> It is a wonderful amp and very pretty to look at.
> I use it with speakers only.


 
  
 I remember you getting some HE-500's to plug into the speaker taps at last year's meet which is the only reason I recognized that amp


----------



## Clayton SF

daigo said:


> I remember you getting some HE-500's to plug into the speaker taps at last year's meet which is the only reason I recognized that amp


 
 Excellent memory!


----------



## Ultrainferno

nice pics, C! I'm glad I found the violet glowing tubes for you 
 Stavros, are those the tubes you'll be sending me?


----------



## Seamaster

rosgr63 said:


> Very nice photos Clayton!
> 
> Just as well you didn't check who was lying at the back of the wagon, flat out drunk!!!!!!!!!!!!
> *ME!!!!!!!!!!!*
> ...


 
  
  


rosgr63 said:


> Auto spelling doesn't help either!
> 
> Thanks David, this is to whet Ultra's appetite


 
  
 Nice showing off, I got some brown cup base GECs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I am keeping mine, but one pair was dead already two years ago after heavy use and shipped a few times. I got them when they were $120 a pair.


----------



## rosgr63

Seamaster nothing to show off really.
  
 These are just 6AS7G and 6080 tubes, nothing special.
  
 It's Clayton's fault, he started it showing off his nice chocolates..............


----------



## Seamaster

rosgr63 said:


> Seamaster nothing to show off really.
> 
> These are just 6AS7G and 6080 tubes, nothing special.
> 
> It's Clayton's fault, he started it showing off his nice chocolates..............


 
 Oh, you just make it worse, now I am really jealous...


----------



## 2359glenn

Do these expensive tubes really sound that much better?  Stavros tube collection is unbelievable he only shows a few every now and then.


----------



## longbowbbs

I can believe that for some people, they can sound better. I am not sure my heavy metal abused ears could appreciate all the nuances as they are described.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Every 6sn7 I have listened to sounded uniquely different. Better is a matter of opinion and perspective but regardless there were always readily identifiable differences. I'm always surprised by how much so in fact.


----------



## john57

2359glenn said:


> Do these expensive tubes really sound that much better?  Stavros tube collection is unbelievable he only shows a few every now and then.


 
 Glenn,
  
 For me the biggest limitation is the recordings and wanted to have some funds left over to support the arts. Yesterday I threw out a recording of Mahler Symphony No. 2 not because of the performance but the engineering of the CD was so bad. It was on 2 disks and the first disk was just 20 minutes long and the second disk was chopped up into so many parts even a track break in a middle of a song. Just horrible! It was just a cheap used CD so I did not lose out much. I thought about having a 300B based amp but recent health issues is taking up the funds. The key thing I can say is just to have fun and enjoy the company and happy in spite of the limitation that life sometimes throws in your path.  I think that the many posts here and the talk about food are showing off the fun we are having.


----------



## Silent One

john57 said:


> Glenn,
> 
> For me the biggest limitation is the recordings and wanted to have some funds left over to support the arts. Yesterday I threw out a recording of Mahler Symphony No. 2 not because of the performance but the engineering of the CD was so bad. It was on 2 disks and the first disk was just 20 minutes long and the second disk was chopped up into so many parts even a track break in a middle of a song. Just horrible! It was just a cheap used CD so I did not lose out much. I thought about having a 300B based amp but recent health issues is taking up the funds. *The key thing I can say is just to have fun and enjoy the company and happy in spite of the limitation that life sometimes throws in your path.  I think that the many posts here and the talk about food are showing off the fun we are having.*


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> john57 said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn,
> ...


 
 +2


----------



## Clayton SF

And speaking of food, I'm thinking about making a Dutch apple pie this weekend like the one I had in Amsterdam and all while listening to Melody Gardot.
  
 Then I will devour the pie while listening to Robert Plant and Alison Kraus _Raising Sand_ LP.


----------



## Silent One

That's some good eatin'!


----------



## Seamaster

2359glenn said:


> Do these expensive tubes really sound that much better?  Stavros tube collection is unbelievable he only shows a few every now and then.


 
  
 To me, they are much better than US and Russian made 6AS7 tubes, more refined without being "tuned-down" or lose any PRTA , I just love those round cup base 6AS7G.
  


john57 said:


> Glenn,
> 
> Mahler Symphony No. 2 not because of the performance but the engineering of the CD was so bad. It was on 2 disks and the first disk was just 20 minutes long and the second disk was chopped up into so many parts even a track break in a middle of a song. Just horrible! It was just a cheap used CD so I did not lose out much. I thought about having a 300B based amp but recent health issues is taking up the funds. The key thing I can say is just to have fun and enjoy the company and happy in spite of the limitation that life sometimes throws in your path.  I think that the many posts here and the talk about food are showing off the fun we are having.


 
 I heard Mahler Symphony No. 2 at a guy's house I was selling my KT88 mono to. He used a Denon CDP -> Pass Lab 250 -> Martin Logan a model similar to Theos. They sound terrible together but the guy loves it, so I took the money from him and ran, I did not want to stay in his house for any extra second. The second time I talked to him and found out he has hearing lost at HF...... so that godness of treble energies did not bother him.
  
  
 I agree there are personal perspective about music and gears, but there is also a common ground for what is good sound. Glenn's amp sound good compare to ...... regardless they suit one's taste or not.


----------



## Seamaster

clayton sf said:


> And speaking of food, I'm thinking about making a Dutch apple pie this weekend like the one I had in Amsterdam and all while listening to Melody Gardot.
> 
> Then I will devour the pie while listening to Robert Plant and Alison Kraus _Raising Sand_ LP.


 
 You should try some fried green tea icecream too


----------



## Ultrainferno

Sorry for having been quiet but I've been really busy (and I'm in holiday). I had a friend over from Asia and I spent the last few days with excellent (famous) company at a secret location. How's that for a teaser! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now I have to get looking for some of those osram or other round base 6AS7G, thank you Stavros...


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Do these expensive tubes really sound that much better?  Stavros tube collection is unbelievable he only shows a few every now and then.


 
  
 Glenn, to me all these expensive & rare tubes are not worth the money, unless you are a collector or crazy like me.
 When I did some extensive tests I found out that similar tubes of different production did sound different.
 That was based on Sylvania 6SN7W's and Mullard Ecc33's.
 Then again I get all my listening pleasure from cheap tubes GR Super 10 on 6BL7's.
  


john57 said:


> Glenn,
> 
> For me the biggest limitation is the recordings and wanted to have some funds left over to support the arts. Yesterday I threw out a recording of Mahler Symphony No. 2 not because of the performance but the engineering of the CD was so bad. It was on 2 disks and the first disk was just 20 minutes long and the second disk was chopped up into so many parts even a track break in a middle of a song. Just horrible! It was just a cheap used CD so I did not lose out much. I thought about having a 300B based amp but recent health issues is taking up the funds. *The key thing I can say is just to have fun and enjoy the company and happy in spite of the limitation that life sometimes throws in your path.  I think that the many posts here and the talk about food are showing off the fun we are having.*


 
  
 Thanks John, you are ever so right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  


clayton sf said:


> And speaking of food, I'm thinking about making a Dutch apple pie this weekend like the one I had in Amsterdam and all while listening to Melody Gardot.
> 
> Then I will devour the pie while listening to Robert Plant and Alison Kraus _Raising Sand_ LP.


 
  
 Clayton stop it please, It's past lunch time and I can't look at these nice dishes............or else I'll have another late lunch


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Glenn, to me all these expensive & rare tubes are not worth the money, unless you are a collector or crazy like me.
> When I did some extensive tests I found out that similar tubes of different production did sound different.
> That was based on Sylvania 6SN7W's and Mullard Ecc33's.
> Then again I get all my listening pleasure from cheap tubes GR Super 10 on 6BL7's.
> ...


 
 Stavros
  
 I know you collect these rare tubes more then anything and show pictures of them to get people drooling.
 And You never know Santa may give you some more strange collectable tubes for Christmas.
  
 I do have to get a new source because the amp I made for Stavros sounded better at his house then mine
 when I was testing it.
  
 Oh and it will be lunch here soon but I have nothing that looks that good.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn one way to encourage people take an interest in tubes is by showing some nice examples.
  
 BTW I only show tubes I can use in my amps, I don't collect tubes for display.
  
 Please note I said interested * NOT* addicted.


----------



## 2359glenn

Oh I thought it was addicted and I am not helping the situation .
 I will be good for awhile and not send you any contra ban.


----------



## rosgr63

You know me too well I am afraid............


----------



## 2359glenn

You are not the devil only when it comes to certain things.
 But your nice examples are way over the budget for most tube newbies. 
 I will take some pictures of very old odd tubes and I do have equipment that uses them.
 Though not audio
 Still use my grandfathers battery charger that uses a Tungar Bulb for a rectifier tube.
 I will take a picture of that neat tube and post it. The charger was made in 1917.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn you'll be very surprised how much I payed for some of these tubes, and I am talking within the last few years.
 Sometimes one gets lucky, and then again for the same tubes I spent a lot, it just depends.
  
 But I'll say it again, my amps are running with cheap tubes, I even use a cracked base TS Mouse Ears 6SN7 which is one of my all time favourites.
  
 One doesn't have to spend a fortune to enjoy the music.
  
 Soon I'll post photo of one of the rarest tubes I have and does't cost a fortune.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Glenn one way to encourage people take an interest in tubes is by showing some nice examples.
> 
> BTW I only show tubes I can use in my amps, I don't collect tubes for display.
> 
> Please note I said interested * NOT* addicted.


 
 Uh huh.....Sure.....


----------



## Xcalibur255

Almost sounds like a cry for help doesn't it?


----------



## longbowbbs

A sad and pitiful cry....sniff...


----------



## rosgr63

Et Tu, Brute?


----------



## daigo

clayton sf said:


> And speaking of food, I'm thinking about making a Dutch apple pie this weekend like the one I had in Amsterdam and all while listening to Melody Gardot.
> 
> Then I will devour the pie while listening to Robert Plant and Alison Kraus _Raising Sand_ LP.


 
  
 When the question is whether or not to make and eat pie, the answer is always yes.


----------



## rosgr63

Very sensible answer!


----------



## Clayton SF

If my attempt at baking a Dutch apple pie turns out to be a success this weekend, then I'll post a picture of it. Otherwise I'll just eat it and try another one. Just like tubes. If one isn't just right, then one must try another one.
  
 Guys, I'll be Dutch apple pie rolling this weekend. Probably in matched pairs. 
  
 Get ready.... Set engines to "Full Speed" ahead!


----------



## rosgr63

Do you need a little help testing?


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> If my attempt at baking a Dutch apple pie turns out to be a success this weekend, then I'll post a picture of it. Otherwise I'll just eat it and try another one. Just like tubes. If one isn't just right, then one must try another one.
> 
> Guys, I'll be Dutch apple pie rolling this weekend. Probably in matched pairs.
> 
> Get ready.... Set engines to "Full Speed" ahead!


 
 Clayton you could send a piece to North Carolina for testing !
 Even if it don't look perfect I am sure it will taste perfect and that is all that matters.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Et Tu, Brute?


 
  
 "I come here to praise Stavros, not to bury him!"
  
 Friends, Head-Fier's Countrymen, lend me your tubes!


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Eric, I feel much better now!
  
 I can concentrate on Clayton's wonderful cooking now............
  
  
 Twin box plates in the same glass envelope?
 Is that possible?


----------



## 2359glenn

Bummer the filament in one of my JJ300Bs burned out only one year old What


----------



## john57

2359glenn said:


> Bummer the filament in one of my JJ300Bs burned out only one year old What


 
 Darn is that a bit over $100?


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Bummer the filament in one of my JJ300Bs burned out only one year old What


 
 That means that I have only 9 months left on both of my JJ300Bs. Eeek!


----------



## 2359glenn

I made Clayton's and Lieven's amps with the filament running at 4.5 volts so the 300Bs will last longer. Running at 4.5 volts will not affect operation.
These new production tubes sound OK but were not made to last. My WE300Bs were in the amps for years then I sold them when I got sick.


----------



## 2359glenn

Clayton yours should last longer due to the lowered filament voltage. 
And my amps are on 5 to 6 hours every day 12 or more hours on Saturday and Sunday.
The thing is the GE globe #210 driver tubes outlasted at least 10 pairs of 300Bs over the last 15 years.


----------



## rosgr63

How many cookies is that Clayton?
  
 Run Hours mean nothing to me...........................


----------



## Silent One

Perhaps, someone will show up in thread with a cookie emoticon by year-end holidays...


----------



## rosgr63




----------



## Ultrainferno

A cake my gf made for me


----------



## Clayton SF

I made the appeltaart.
 Not bad.
 Ultra-'s gf is much better at baking than me.


----------



## longbowbbs

I seriously love you guys!!!.....Too funny!


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> I made the appeltaart.
> Not bad.
> Ultra-'s gf is much better at baking than me.


 
 It looks wonderful Clayton if I lived close I would be coming over.


----------



## rosgr63

Double Box Plates in a single envelope.


----------



## 2359glenn

Boy I can use four 2A3s like that in my 2A3 OTL amp


----------



## rosgr63

How many cookies is that worth Glenn?


----------



## 2359glenn

Stavros How many cookies do you want ? I will get L baking right away.
 I am packing up a box of 6BL7 flat plate tubes now I will put some cookies in the box.


----------



## rosgr63

No no, too much temptation, I'll never fit my clothes and you'll be laughing at me!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

I have to fatten you up you are still laughing at me for being so fat. It is L's fault she keeps baking
 and I keep eating so it is best I send some of it to you. Not to mention that I gained 2Kg when I was there.
 Who knows how much when I come back.


----------



## Ultrainferno

When Clayton was here he introduced me to the Raising Sands Album by Robert Plant & Alison Krauss. It's incredibly good I can't stop listening to it
  

  
 I'm listening to it now with the brand new Philips L2 and the Cypherlabs Theorem 720 DAC while I'm making a huge presentation for tomorrow's meeting. Perfection guaranteed.


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> When Clayton was here he introduced me to the Raising Sands Album by Robert Plant & Alison Krauss. It's incredibly good I can't stop listening to it
> 
> 
> 
> I'm listening to it now with the brand new Philips L2 and the Cypherlabs Theorem 720 DAC while I'm making a huge presentation for tomorrow's meeting. Perfection guaranteed.


 
  
 It's a great album and such an unlikely pairing of artists.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ultra-
 I'm glad you like that album.
 I must come over again and introduce you to more music,
 and hopefully you will like it.
  
 And finish of that beer. 
  
 Right now I am listening to Glenn's mono blocks.
 I am using it as a power amp.
 I have used 2 different preamps: the Decware CSP2+ and the Zana Deux.
 Surprisingly I prefer the Decware. Maybe it is because you can roll more tubes.
  
 Have a great day.
  
 I should learn to bake cookies and get in on the tube/cookie exchange action. My appeltaart weighed in at 2kg.
 How would I mail that to NC and Greece?


----------



## rosgr63

Eric we have to think of a *Cookie Code of Conduct*.
  
 Or else Glenn and Clayton will become unstoppable.
  
 Please help!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Eric we have to think of a *Cookie Code of Conduct*.
> 
> Or else Glenn and Clayton will become unstoppable.
> 
> Please help!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  

 mmmmppphhpphhh? Sorry, I was distracted...What?


----------



## rosgr63




----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Ultra-
> I'm glad you like that album.
> I must come over again and introduce you to more music,
> and hopefully you will like it.
> ...


 
 I don't know but your apple tart looks better then cookies I do know how to ship yummy stuff I have sent
 a bunch of it to Greece. When you get ready I will tell you how to send I am getting hungry already and
 I just ate lunch.


----------



## rosgr63

And you've been very bad again, Mr.
  
 More tubes and treats for me in the post and then you wonder why I am still an addict...........


----------



## rosgr63

BTW what happened to Bob Putnak's nice Jackson 648S?


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> And you've been very bad again, Mr.
> 
> More tubes and treats for me in the post and then you wonder why I am still an addict...........


 
 I know  you are an addict but I am not the pusher man I don't even sell tubes.
 Do give some away though. OK no more tubes for awhile.
   But L is going to be baking cookies again soon it is starting to cool off
 and supposed to be cooler next week she will be baking again.


----------



## rosgr63

No Tubes & No Cookies.....................
  
 How sad...............


----------



## Ultrainferno

Does any of you guys have any experience with the Neko D100 Mk2 24-bit Stereo DAC?


----------



## Silent One

I'm familiar with it but have yet to hear it.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am not familiar with that one. btw, nice review on the WA2 on Headfonia!


----------



## warchild

ultrainferno said:


> Does any of you guys have any experience with the Neko D100 Mk2 24-bit Stereo DAC?


 
  
 Pluses and minuses. I don't quite feel it's worth the money (and I got it 2nd hand for $700 and sold it for $500) There are some nice ideas done with some sloppiness. The transformer is nice but kind of haphazardly shielded. Some of the soldering is gloppy. It's not silver solder either and the point to point is sort of cheap copper wiring. More like production line stuff than audiophile.
 Sound is fine though. Great but not superlative.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I think I'm going for the Neko, I can get it for $750, pretty good.
  
 EDIT: bought it. I think it will be an excellent match with the 300b, extra warmth!


----------



## longbowbbs

This video has been around awhile, but I saw it for the first time today. Has anyone else seen this? Stavros, anyone in here you know?


----------



## rosgr63

Very interesting video, I have seen it before.
  
 I don't know these people but I know some even crazier.
  
 I too was looking for help for the last 40 years and look where I ended up, with you lot.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Very interesting video, I have seen it before.
> 
> I don't know these people but I know some even crazier.
> 
> I too was looking for help for the last 40 years and look where I ended up, with you lot.


 
  
 ....(Dusting off the couch....) "Tell me about your mother...."


----------



## rosgr63

I am not joking ..............


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> I don't know these people but I know some even _*crazier*_.


 
  
 Crazier than some whom I know as well, or at least want to know? How do you think I connected with Ultra-? 
  
 Stavros, I'm still reading the cookbook you sent me. Must eat to keep fit to keep my ears in tiptop shape!


----------



## rosgr63

Clayon, I don't want to mention any names, but some of us in this group fit the description........
  
 Waiting for more photos of your nice recipes to keep me focused and sane.


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> I am not familiar with that one. btw, nice review on the WA2 on Headfonia!


 
  
 Yes. A very nice review. I am going to use the WA2 as a preamp to Glenn's monoblocks. When that happens, my audio shelves will soon collapse under the weight of these amps.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I am not familiar with that one. btw, nice review on the WA2 on Headfonia!
> ...


 
  
 You will have to arrange new support girders for your apartment. I hope management approves....


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> You will have to arrange new support girders for your apartment. I hope management approves....


 
 With all of those tubes and metal--I'm thinking Steampunk Theme is the next amp. Glenn? Any ideas?
  
*Copper Steampunk Tube Amp*.
  
And another one...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Then make room for these Clayton, they're now official!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/681484/woo-audio-234-mono-monoblock-amplifier-official-release
  

  
 And thanks!


----------



## wotts

clayton sf said:


> With all of those tubes and metal--I'm thinking Steampunk Theme is the next amp. Glenn? Any ideas?
> 
> *Copper Steampunk Tube Amp*.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I love that look! There was a pretty awesome build being chronicled in the DIY forum. I'll have to go look for it. I do't recall if he had finished or not.
  
 I wonder if the speakers in the third image are from the Klipsch home theater line, or custom?


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Then make room for these Clayton, they're now official!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/681484/woo-audio-234-mono-monoblock-amplifier-official-release
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're welcome!
 I have been saving $8.45 a day since I returned from visiting you in hopes of saving $3K by August of next year (for whatever reason). To save $15K by August of next year to buy this Switch-a-Woo Machine, I need to set aside about $50 a day. Not possible. 
  
 Every Woo has a Silver lining!
 So all I can do is dream.


----------



## Xcalibur255

They are beautiful looking pieces of audio art for sure.  But.  Everytime I see the photos all I can think about is Glenn stating that the 6SN7 is not an adequate driver for the 300B.  My eyes are then drawn to the small tube that sits at the front those aluminum beasts.


----------



## Clayton SF

xcalibur255 said:


> They are beautiful looking pieces of audio art for sure.  But.  Everytime I see the photos all I can think about is Glenn stating that the 6SN7 is not an adequate driver for the 300B.  My eyes are then drawn to the small tube that sits at the front those aluminum beasts.


 
  
 I guess only my ears will know for sure.
  
 Has anyone ever seen the inside of these beasts?


----------



## john57

clayton sf said:


> I guess only my ears will know for sure.
> 
> Has anyone ever seen the inside of these beasts?


 
 Personally I think that Glenn can make better 300B based amps much cheaper than David can. Actually I think that Woo model is crazy overblown.


----------



## Clayton SF

I am wondering what is in it to require the chassis to be that tall. I'd hate to have to return the amp for repairs or upgrades.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> I am wondering what is in it to require the chassis to be that tall. I'd hate to have to return the amp for repairs or upgrades.


 
  
 They each have a complete unicorn horn........


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> They each have a complete unicorn horn........


 
 Best answer yet!


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> They each have a complete unicorn horn........


 
  
 Wrong it's Apollo and the Muses pushing the electrons and adjusting the bias current.
  
 And for that price maybe a few more Gods and Goddesses.......


----------



## longbowbbs

They are Elf Condo's......


----------



## 2359glenn

Here are some pictures of my latest creation for Tyrell
 A #45 tube driven by a C3g 6BY5 rectifiers Lundahl transformers.
  

  

  

  
 I know there is some SS stuff in there I should hang my head in shame


----------



## longbowbbs

hehe..."Come on down to Glenn's Hybrids!"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It looks gorgeous!


----------



## Eee Pee

2359glenn said:


> I know there is some SS stuff in there I should hang my head in shame


 
  
 I laughed out loud.  
  
 Looks great, though!  45 tube HAS to be great sounding with headphones.


----------



## 2359glenn

The SS stuff is just for voltage regulators for the filaments of the 45s
 If I had more room I would have done it with chokes and resistors.
 A active voltage regulator is the only way to get rid of the ripple with
 out using large parts. Still needed a heat sink to get rid of the heat
 from the regulators barley had room for that.


----------



## longbowbbs

and I thought you were going to point out the Class D modules under the 45's...


----------



## 2359glenn

Class D now there is some good sounding stuff for somebody.
  
 I was going to make some 100 watt per Chanel MOS fets driven by
 tubes.  Running class A creating allot of heat.
 But getting custom made heat sinks is a problem. Still thinking
 of a smaller version for headphones sure would drive Otho's easily
 though.


----------



## longbowbbs

Wyred 4 Sound is making some really well regarded Class D amps....The last 10 years have seen some great advances in that technology. B&O seem to be driving a lot of the R&D there.


----------



## john57

My latest JBL monitors that I just received uses class D amps internal. Much lighter and less heat generated than class AB.


----------



## 2359glenn

I don't really see the point of it to save electricity how much power is waisted with
 people listening to music. I guess big amplifiers can run cooler but on small scale
 what is the point.Just to prove it can be done and sound good too.


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn, very nice indeed. Your designs keep getter better and better and bigger--like my belly.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Here are some pictures of my latest creation for Tyrell
> A #45 tube driven by a C3g 6BY5 rectifiers Lundahl transformers.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great way to close out Summer 2013... nice effort! I'm looking at the bubble wrap and suddenly thinking about the year-end holidays. In the second pix, what cans do you have jacked-in? Do you still have the LCD2s on hand for this amp?


----------



## rosgr63

Gorgeous looking amp, well done Glenn.
 Tyrell you are very lucky.
  
 One of my headphone amps is also using transistor control for the heaters (2V to 10V, user adjustable), it's a good idea.
 RWA also use D-Class in their designs and so do my B&O monitors.
 I do agree with Glenn, no point for small powers.
  
 Eric I can see the Muses inside Tyrell's amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Goodness. I don't touch my computer over the weekend and look at what I miss. Good thing my phone alerted me to Stavros's email.

I'm kind of at a loss for words to be honest and don't know what to say except its beautiful and thank you so much for everything Glenn.

One thing im curious about though...Are the caster feet not on it yet or is that shag carpeting?


----------



## Silent One

With autumn just on your doorstep, you're gonna feel right cozy with your new '45.'


----------



## john57

Good clean layout both inside and out.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Gorgeous looking amp, well done Glenn.
> Tyrell you are very lucky.
> 
> One of my headphone amps is also using transistor control for the heaters (2V to 10V, user adjustable), it's a good idea.
> ...


 
  
 Better than Siren's. Tyrell would never turn his amp off!


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Goodness. I don't touch my computer over the weekend and look at what I miss. Good thing my phone alerted me to Stavros's email.
> 
> I'm kind of at a loss for words to be honest and don't know what to say except its beautiful and thank you so much for everything Glenn.
> 
> One thing im curious about though...Are the caster feet not on it yet or is that shag carpeting?


 
 When I took those pictures the bottom plate was not on yet I wanted to get a picture of the underside
 before I put it on. And I wanted to try it hooked to music so I just put it on the floor by my stereo
 so I can hook the audio cables. Before all I did was run it hooked to equipment. I do want to try to
 drive my speakers off it before I ship it.
 The bottom plate with the casters are on now.


----------



## Silent One

45amp
  
 I'm sure you've neither the time nor interest to YouTube the official _weigh-in_... but you could tell us!


----------



## 2359glenn

I know nothing about you tube wouldent know what to do to put it up on there nor the time to learn.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey, I made another Dutch apple pie.
 Amps for Pies. It looks like a train wreck but it tastes oh so good!


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice...I just ran 7 miles and the first forum has a delicious looking Dutch apple pie....Clayton, I'll be right over....


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Hey, I made another Dutch apple pie.
> Amps for Pies. It looks like a train wreck but it tastes oh so good!


 
  
 While you're perfecting this dish, here's an idea: 
  
 Upon shipsupt's return to the Bay, you could bake one and bring it to the Bistro for the three of us (and staff)... 
  

  
  
 And I, a Magnum of Veuve-Clicquot...
  




  
  
 And we could hang-out till the fat lady sings, talking about food, music, life, gears and more!


----------



## Clayton SF

EXCELLENT!
 the plan and the pie.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> I know nothing about you tube wouldent know what to do to put it up on there nor the time to learn.


 
  
 I can teach you how to watch some nice videos like the ones I sent you about exercising........

  
  


clayton sf said:


> Hey, I made another Dutch apple pie.
> Amps for Pies. It looks like a train wreck but it tastes oh so good!


 
  
 That looks great Clayton, save a slice for me please.
  
 SO you have some great ideas!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Here is a picture of Tyrell's amp running 2A3s it has a switch that switches the primary impedance of the output transformer


----------



## Ultrainferno

I love the looks of the transformers! How come you switched to the new bias meters Glenn? They look kind of euh, big and stuff


----------



## Silent One

Vacuum Tube Amps-
  
 Whenever I see tubes and transformers stacked, I instantly think "Pick a skyline" from different cities...


----------



## rosgr63

I like your parallel SO, I think the same too.
  
 Is that normal or a sign of something or other?
  
*Sign of Insanity, am I that far gone?*


----------



## 2359glenn

Tyrell bought them he likes the more modern look of those meters.
  
 The transformers should look good for what they cost. These are maybe the best transformers you can buy.
  
 I am thinking of using Lundahl power transformers when ever I use output transformers.
  
 They have almost no magnetic field around them even less then the R core transformer
  
  I used in your amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

I happened upon this audio store while in Amsterdam.
 I went in last year; I didn't go in this time.


----------



## rosgr63

This is my favourite* high end* shop


----------



## Ultrainferno

I knew that was coming Stavros. Btw, he was all out of Bendix. too bad


----------



## rosgr63

Very unfortunate, better luck next time.
  
 My count stops at 25.


----------



## CEE TEE

Those transformers look fantastic.  And the internals...and that shop, Stavros!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Sweet.


----------



## rosgr63

I thought we were talking Benix Red Bank 6080WB......


----------



## longbowbbs

It really looks like a candy store..For real....Now I am hungry again.....


----------



## rosgr63

I thought it was a glimpse of what heaven is ...........


----------



## Silent One

Anytime temptation is running high, and there's no one seemingly around... _be suspicious._


----------



## Ultrainferno

I've been listening to my Glenn Stereo Integrated 300b Amp today with my HE-500 and the new Cypherlabs DAC and I have to admit it is my best amp.
 Biggest sound stage, most detail and by far the best dynamics.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Do you get 8 watts on the phone jack or did Glenn put a resistor on it to throttle it back a bit?


----------



## Ultrainferno

It's not 8W at the SE. I'm still waiting for the speaker to headphone cable for the 8W output


----------



## Clayton SF

I have decided to pack my bags and sell off some of my equipment (_*starting with the WA2*_) so that I can move to Europe and live next door to Ultra-. His barbecuing skills are so good that I must move closer to him.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Good luck with the sale C. You can always get a room here for a good price, and no, not my listening room


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> Good luck with the sale C. You can always get a room here for a good price, and no, not my listening room


 
  
 How well you know him....


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Do you get 8 watts on the phone jack or did Glenn put a resistor on it to throttle it back a bit?


 
 I have a resistor to throttle it back 8 watts is allot to be hooked direct to the headphones.
 If there is a pop or spike from the source you wouldent want that amplified up to 8 watts or more
 and right to the headphones that are on your ears.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Very true.  Unfortunately we have both found out what happens with 2 watts in that situation even.


----------



## Silent One

The horror! Good thing you help us practice good audio health...


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> Very true.  Unfortunately we have both found out what happens with 2 watts in that situation even.


 
  
 So, what is the very first track you think you'll start the relationship with for the 45amp?


----------



## Xcalibur255

silent one said:


> So, what is the very first track you think you'll start the relationship with for the 45amp?


 
 That was decided long ago.  I will have to plead the 5th, as it is both esoteric and a very personal thing for me.  Suffice to say if this particular piece of music sounds bad on a piece of gear I don't feel any need to continue to own that piece of gear.
  
 I'll share the 2nd song I will listen to on it though.  I'm quite smitten with the new Jars of Clay album since it came out the other week so I'll probably start here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFTMFWYRP_Q  and then go through the rest of the album.


----------



## Silent One

> That was decided long ago.  I will have to plead the 5th, as it is both esoteric and a very personal thing for me.  Suffice to say if this particular piece of music sounds bad on a piece of gear I don't feel any need to continue to own that piece of gear.
> 
> I'll share the 2nd song I will listen to on it though.  I'm quite smitten with the new Jars of Clay album since it came out the other week so I'll probably start here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFTMFWYRP_Q  and then go through the rest of the album.


 
  
 Thanks for sharing what you did, though, as we're an appreciative bunch. Think we could learn of the track _after_ your run?


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> > That was decided long ago.  I will have to plead the 5th, as it is both esoteric and a very personal thing for me.  Suffice to say if this particular piece of music sounds bad on a piece of gear I don't feel any need to continue to own that piece of gear.
> >
> > I'll share the 2nd song I will listen to on it though.  I'm quite smitten with the new Jars of Clay album since it came out the other week so I'll probably start here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFTMFWYRP_Q  and then go through the rest of the album.
> 
> ...


 
 Disco Inferno.....Just a guess....


----------



## Silent One

Ur havin' w-a-y 2 much fun tonight... can I get some? Tea is overrated.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

clayton sf said:


> I have decided to pack my bags and sell off some of my equipment (_*starting with the WA2*_) so that I can move to Europe and live next door to Ultra-. His barbecuing skills are so good that I must move closer to him.


 
  
 Too bad your amp's in Europe.  I'd love to stop by to audition it!


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> Disco Inferno.....Just a guess....


 
  
 That's The Way (I Like it)


----------



## longbowbbs

The rebirth of Western Electric:
  
 http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/jun/23/western-electric-plugs-into-rossville/


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for the update Eric.
  
 There was a lot of talk about WE reproduction the last couple of years.
 Some thought that the production was going to China.
  
 Can't wait to see the new 300B's, which hopefully will not sell at crazy prices.


----------



## longbowbbs

At least this new owner seems to be an enthusiast rather than someone simply looking to cash in on the name.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rosgr63 said:


> Thanks for the update Eric.
> 
> There was a lot of talk about WE reproduction the last couple of years.
> Some thought that the production was going to China.
> ...




+1


----------



## rosgr63

Just received a big heavy parcel from Glenn, he's been very naughty again.
  
 There were some beautiful tubes inside and some nice chocolates and a present for my Mum.
  
 The downside is I am not allowed to go anywhere near the lovely chocolates......................


----------



## Clayton SF

INTERVENTION!
 I'm coming over on the next flight;
 after I drop Ultra- off.


----------



## longbowbbs

Don't worry Stavros, we'll eat the candy so you don't have temptation!
  
 What are friends for anyway...


----------



## rosgr63

No need to drop Ultra off.
  
 Just fly a bit further and we are done!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for the support Eric.
  
 Now I feel even worst.
  
 I will retaliate with a huge Toblerone.........


----------



## Xcalibur255

He walks softly but carries a big stick.......... Of Toblerone.


----------



## longbowbbs

xcalibur255 said:


> He walks softly but carries a big stick.......... Of Toblerone.


 
  
 Go Tyrell!! 
  
 and Stavros...Toblerone is designed for sharing!


----------



## rosgr63

No Way...............
  
 The chocolate wars have started and it's Glenn's fault.
  
 BTW he's shopping right now, not more sweets I hope.


----------



## Xcalibur255

ack, I screwed up a famous quote. It was speak softly I believe.

I might need toblerone to console myself.


----------



## longbowbbs

You got it right for this occasion. You can't talk and eat Toblerone....


----------



## 2359glenn

Now that it cooling off L will be baking cookies again something to worry about Stavros


----------



## Silent One

Now that it's cooling off, we need to commission her to bake 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Cobbler!


----------



## wotts

Now that it's cooling off, I'll be parked next to my OTL!
  

  
 Please excuse the grainy iPhone picture. My DSLR had a dead battery, and I'm not home right now.


----------



## longbowbbs

wotts said:


> Now that it's cooling off, I'll be parked next to my OTL!
> 
> 
> 
> Please excuse the grainy iPhone picture. My DSLR had a dead battery, and I'm not home right now.


 
  
 Looks like a great night for headphones in Michigan!


----------



## 2359glenn

Here is a neat very old tube to look at
 It is a Tungar Bulb or tungsten argon rectifier
 It can handle 6 amps output at low voltage. You can't see it in the picture
 but there is a blue ball of plasma around the filament. It can be used in
 filament power supplies for direct heated triodes


----------



## longbowbbs

Looks like the same vintage as my old Coke machine!


----------



## wotts

longbowbbs said:


> Looks like a great night for headphones in Michigan!


 
 I think I'll be unwinding right there after work tonight.
  


longbowbbs said:


> Looks like the same vintage as my old Coke machine!


 
 NEAT!!
  


2359glenn said:


> Here is a neat very old tube to look at
> It is a Tungar Bulb or tungsten argon rectifier
> It can handle 6 amps output at low voltage. You can't see it in the picture
> but there is a blue ball of plasma around the filament. It can be used in
> filament power supplies for direct heated triodes


 
  
 I think I have a few tubes in my hoard with bases like that. I had wondered what they would be used for. I'll have to look for them and get the numbers.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Here is a neat very old tube to look at
> It is a Tungar Bulb or tungsten argon rectifier
> It can handle 6 amps output at low voltage. You can't see it in the picture
> but there is a blue ball of plasma around the filament. It can be used in
> filament power supplies for direct heated triodes


 
  
  A fantastic find!


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice photos!!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> Looks like the same vintage as my old Coke machine!


 
  
 Great looking box, by the way...


----------



## rosgr63

There's a WE amp hiding inside but Eric is not telling..............


----------



## Silent One

Perhaps, he'll swing open the door during year-end holidays. I'd certainly delight in that pix, while sipping on a cup of farm fresh egg nog.


----------



## longbowbbs

That would be funny...I could hide a nice tube amp inside and my Wife would never know..."Why are you hanging around the Coke machine all the time?" Hmmmm What?  Oh, just thirsty, Dear.....


----------



## rosgr63

It's getting better, you could fit a complete system actually.......


----------



## longbowbbs

If you took the bottle holder out it could even have speakers installed...The sound might be too sweet though....


----------



## rosgr63

Every time I look at this Coke machine I feel thirsty.
  
 It has a strange grip on me, I can't explain it...........................


----------



## john57

Now for some Hi-Fi news.
 The World's First Production 3D-Printed Headphones called Alpha Dog by MrSpeakers is about to hit the market. At about $600 and it is using the Fostex T50RP drivers. I personally own the Fostex T50RP headphone since I can not afford the better planner headphone at this time. What is amazing about this is that the thread is already 125 pages before even the headphones is even available for the general public!
http://www.head-fi.org/t/676095/mrspeakers-alpha-dog-revealed-the-worlds-first-production-3d-printed-headphones
 Second, I really enjoy my new JBL LSR305 5 incher speaker active monitors. The LSR305 and the LSR308 are the new models just released which replaces the JBL  LSR2328P and the LSR2325P models.  My LSR305 is based on JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor revolutionary waveguide technology.  The waveguide on my LSR305 is a horn with ripples on the surface with a soft dome tweeter. Normally I do not like horns on speakers but the new JBL horn waveguide is the best I ever heard.  The JBL M2 reference monitors runs about $19K for the system.  What is surprising that it did not take long for JBL to trickle down the new technology to the low cost monitor. The JBL LSR305 has the best sound quality bargain monitors money can buy! Street price is just $150 or $300 for the pair with mostly free shipping in the U.S.A. 
 You can read more on my review of the JBL LSR305 at http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/867409-jbl-lsr305-vs-adam-f5.html which is one of the popular forums for electronic musicians.


----------



## Silent One

John57, thanks for weighing-in... finally something of taste and value that I may be able to afford! Going over to look right now. My current living arrangements won't accommodate speakers. These JBL Active Monitors could turn out to be quite the bridge for me to cross.
  
 Hopefully, I can place them near to me on the desk for discreet listening. Let's
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 investigate! Also, long time reader of Gearslutz...


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Every time I look at this Coke machine I feel thirsty.
> 
> It has a strange grip on me, I can't explain it...........................


 
  
 It is saying "Come to Wisconsin and have some Bratwurst!"


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> It is saying "Come to Wisconsin and have some Bratwurst!"


 
  
 That's blackmail Eric, I'll do anything you say, I surrender.............
  
  
 John thanks for the great info, these monitors are winners for sure.


----------



## john57

silent one said:


> John57, thanks for weighing-in... finally something of taste and value that I may be able to afford! Going over to look right now. My current living arrangements won't accommodate speakers. These JBL Active Monitors could turn out to be quite the bridge for me to cross.
> 
> Hopefully, I can place them near to me on the desk for discreet listening. Let's
> 
> ...


 
 I hope my comments are useful. The JBL LSR305 is continuing to get good reviews. One reviewer just stated that the JBL has much better sound quality than the Genelec 8030B which costs $800 *each. *Only the Neumann KH 310 8 incher three way that can play louder match the JBL but it is at $2,250 *each. *To get better sound quality at 1/5 of the cost and more is quite a game changer in my opinion. I still have my Emotiva Airmotiv6 which is still a good speaker in its own right. I will talk about tubes next time I write.


----------



## Silent One

Excellent! We all love great value around here...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Harman can really put out great product when it focuses its engineering talent. Their brand management in the last decade has been a mystery though. Look at how they have let AKG and Infinity languish...... Both storied audio brands.


----------



## john57

I understand what you are saying. Many companies are using workers as commodities for a specific project and do not always hang on to the same engineers. In Harman's case it would make sense if they keep the engineers team and rotate them among the various companies they own. If you check the website for the JBL M2 monitors, it is quite obvious that Harman spends quite a bit of resources to develop the M2 monitors (mostly from scratch) with five patents being used on the woofer design alone and with software tuning programs available. With my JBL LSR305 and the LSR308, much of the development work for these low-cost monitors was most likely done using the M2 reference monitors, which helps to keep the costs low. Harman most likely uses the same team for the low-cost LSR models without having to develop them from scratch. There is a bit of movement on the AKG side with some new models as well.
 It is with software companies that I have issues with. Gigastudio which was one of the biggest investments I had for software was brought out by Tascam only to be dropped by them. Calkwalk another fine audio MIDI sequencer program I owned was brought out by Roland and then Gibson. Giving Gibson track record I do not see any future development of Cakewalk. One of the oldest MIDI hardware synthesizer keyboard  support program still being developed  is MIDI Quest by  Sound Quest first released  in 1989 for AMIGA, and the ATARI ST which I have owned at the time was better than anything I saw on the PC side. Check it out if you need a good librarian program for your hardware synthesizer.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for the great and valuable info John.
  
 Good people make a good company great.


----------



## Silent One

So, how will we celebrate our 5,000th Post? Despite being in different time zones, perhaps we could all share listening to the same track, or have the same snack, drink or something...





 
  
 In this thread, "Food for thought" takes on a whole new meaning.


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> So, how will we celebrate our 5,000th Post? Despite being in different time zones, perhaps we could all share listening to the same track, or have the same snack, drink or something...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Count me in!


----------



## rosgr63

I like it SO.
  
I am in!!!!!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

I like that plan as well....


----------



## Ultrainferno

I don't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Been awfully busy, haven't been listening to any desktop amps, only my portable setup and the L2 and CE BA4 ciems
 Hope everyone is doing great and enjoying their amps!


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> I don't
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Get thee to JHAudio!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have the Cosmic ears BA4 and a 1964 V6 is on the way


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Christmas came early for me today.  My 45 amp is on the rack and making music.  I'll post a couple of pictures when I have a chance.
  
 I'm not good at making these posts fun like everybody else is.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The C3gs and the 6BY5s are brand new (I have no idea about the 45s) so I'm going to let her run for a bit before saying anything about the sound.  I'm biased at a conservative 32mA right now too, I thought I would start low and work up to the 38mA Glenn was running the amp at during testing.
  
 My first thought paired with the LCD-2s was "demure, but not veiled"..... we'll see where things go from here.  The Duelund caps are quite notorious for needing a long break-in too so I'm sure the sound will be developing for quite a while.


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> Christmas came early for me today.  My 45 amp is on the rack and making music.  I'll post a couple of pictures when I have a chance.
> 
> I'm not good at making these posts fun like everybody else is.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Viva La 45! Or something like that...




  
 Your posts are more than just fun, they're enlightening. Had you not voluntarily came over to this thread, you would have been unsuspectingly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




drawn. Or _recruited_, if you prefer. We can't wait to hear more about the studio's new release.


----------



## wotts

A 45 based tube has had my eye for a while now. I keep looking at the Blumenstein Orcas and wonder if they would pair well with the 45 or 2A3.
  
 I look forward to reading more about the studio's latest creation!


----------



## Silent One

Oh, and a BIG Cheers to Glenn for the production!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Well, I found out tonight the camera on my phone is pretty awful......
  
 Anyway, say hello to _Kanade........._
  

  

  

  
 It already sounds very nice.  I'm not going to draw comparisons between it and the OTL until both tubes and amp have gotten some break-in time.  At this point I can say the tonal character is a little different.  The 45 really lives in the midrange, but not at the expense of extension.  The OTL by comparison really feels incredibly neutral to me, not highlighting anything in particular.  Since I have no idea what the C3g sounds like in terms of sonic signature I can only assume I'm hearing the "DHT" sound of the 45s.  I've already adjusted the bias up to 34mA which is the standard setting for the 45s.  It actually sounds quite good at 32mA but I was going say something about the dynamics being a bit mellow then realized that's probably my own fault if I'm underbiasing the output tubes.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This was a dream come true.  Time and money well spent and a simply beautiful effort from a dear friend of mine.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Silent One

Hello Kanade...


----------



## Clayton SF

OMG (Oh My Glenn) I'm in heaven again!


----------



## longbowbbs

Happy 5000 everyone!
  




  
 This group is THE best. I am honored to be part of the 2359Glenn forum fraternity!


----------



## Silent One

I wonder what it tipped the scales at, 25kg?


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> Happy 5000 everyone!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Happy 5000
 The # 5 brings luck
 That's a lucky # for sure.
_*longbowbbs*_, you get a brand new old NOS 596 tube!
 I'll PM you and send it off to you.
  
 Share the Wealth. 
  
 Happy 5000 everyone.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## longbowbbs

Clayton that was most unexpected and very generous! Lucky I have my 2359Glenn 5U4G>596 adapter at the ready!


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> Clayton that was most unexpected and very generous! Lucky I have my 2359Glenn 5U4G>596 adapter at the ready!


 
  
 You're welcome.
 I see that you're prepared!
 Excellent.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Nice looking amp with the tubes in!
  
 My mind is still set on a Leben 300xs since I listened to it last week


----------



## Xcalibur255

I tried to take a shot with my ancient point and shoot camera.  Not fuzzy but the exposure drowns out the detail in the current meters.
  

  
 The amp sounded good tonight.  I'm tempted to draw comparisons but it's too soon.  I played a little violin piece just before I quit tonight that stole my breath for a moment.  Total midrange magic.  It doesn't fully complement every type of music I'm finding but when it does it is awfully beguiling. 
  
 I am brand new to manual bias so I didn't know what to expect.  Just changing the current from 32 to 34 mA on the 45s produced a pretty noticeable change in sound.  I thought running the tubes harder would make them sound edgy but that isn't what happens at all, it just sounds better all around with more current.  In the future I'll bump it up to 36 and eventually try out 38 as well which is where Glenn ran them.  He told me not to go above 40 and I have a suspicion that 40mA would probably halve the life of the tubes or worse since the general opinion is that even 38mA is running them hard.  It will be fun to experiment.


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations Tyrell, what a fantastic looking amp!
 Money very well spent, well done.
  
 Glenn has done as always a first class job.
  
 Eric well done!!!!!!!
 Clayton you are ever so thoughtful and generous, you always come up with excellent ideas.


----------



## Silent One

This was worth staying up for!


----------



## longbowbbs

xcalibur255 said:


> I tried to take a shot with my ancient point and shoot camera.  Not fuzzy but the exposure drowns out the detail in the current meters.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
 It looks wonderful Tyrell! Did Glenn mention any break in time?


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Eric well done!!!!!!!
> Clayton you are ever so thoughtful and generous, you always come up with excellent ideas.


 
 Pure chance on my part. I was away for nearly a full 24 hours (Ooooo the withdrawal!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) and logged in late last night. My return was rewarded by Clayton's generosity.


----------



## Clayton SF

Sharing, may they be cookies, candies, dinners, beers, cities, towns, studios, amp rooms, photos, tubes, or words, is what this thread is all about.
  
 Happy Friday!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Clayton is the best!!


----------



## Silent One

+1


----------



## rosgr63

+2


----------



## longbowbbs

+596


----------



## Ultrainferno

Most funny


----------



## dminches

I did some calculations and discovered that my house is the exact central point of everyone's home location.  So, how about a 2359glenn get together next spring/summer in Cherry Hill, NJ?  That gives everyone time to plan their journey.


----------



## wotts

dminches said:


> I did some calculations and discovered that my house is the exact central point of everyone's home location.  So, how about a 2359glenn get together next spring/summer in Cherry Hill, NJ?  That gives everyone time to plan their journey.


 
  




  
 I'm always ready for a meet!


----------



## longbowbbs

David, that is very gracious of you. I would enjoy a get together. Hopefully schedules will allow.


----------



## rosgr63

David that's a great idea!
 I hope you'll have video coverage for the rest of us.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Yeah, did you calculate in stavros's and my location?


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> Yeah, did you calculate in stavros's and my location?


 
  
 I couldn't find Nirvana on a map??!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> I couldn't find Nirvana on a map??!!!


 
 LOL.


----------



## Silent One

dminches said:


> I did some calculations and discovered that my house is the exact central point of everyone's home location.  So, how about a 2359glenn get together next spring/summer in Cherry Hill, NJ?  That gives everyone time to plan their journey.


 






 Let's do it!


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> +596


 
  





 Those numbers flat-out made my Friday!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Eric are you going to bring your coke machine over???????


----------



## dminches

rosgr63 said:


> David that's a great idea!
> I hope you'll have video coverage for the rest of us.


 
  
 Video coverage?  Your attendance is mandatory!


----------



## dminches

ultrainferno said:


> Yeah, did you calculate in stavros's and my location?


 
  
 Of course.  The ship cannot navigate without its captains.
  
 This is an international meet.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks David.
  
 If I promise to behave will Eric let me touch his Tardis?


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Eric are you going to bring your coke machine over???????


 
  
 It won't fit in my carry-on luggage...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Thanks David.
> 
> If I promise to behave will Eric let me touch his Tardis?


 
  
 That Coke machine would be a very short Tardis....


----------



## Clayton SF

Eric knows about my Apple Pie Machine. It dispenses Apple Pie AND Whipped Cream. Maybe I can bring that.
  
_*"Attention all Captains: be at the ready!"*_


----------



## GrindingThud

Pie? I like pie.......http://www.weebls-stuff.com/wab/pie/


----------



## Silent One

Peach Cobbler... Blackberry Cobbler... Winter Cobbler... anyone?


----------



## dminches

I will take all of them, a la mode.


----------



## Clayton SF

Shoe cobbler. I need a new pair.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Good night guys. Ebjoy the amps over the weekend!


----------



## Silent One

dminches said:


> I will take all of them, a la mode.


 
  
 You do realize we just entered Autumn Airspace? Time to cut speed and lower 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the landing gears...


----------



## longbowbbs

Um...OK...No chocolate sauce.....


----------



## 2359glenn

Why no chocolate sauce chocolate sounds good to me
 maybe Ultra can bring some good chocolate here.


----------



## Silent One

Formerly, for me autumn was about good food, people and football! Thanks's to Glenn's expertise and friendship back in 2010, I can now throw in vacuum tube amps as well.


----------



## longbowbbs

Yes! Chocolate sauce is back on the menu.....


----------



## 2359glenn

I think this meet will have more food then headphones and amps.
 but that's OK


----------



## Silent One

I'm not so sure. I've seen his listening room - okay, via the web
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - but it's loaded!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'll have to be the bad guy and interrupt the food talk with a technical question.
  
 So for those who have manual bias amps (aka Glenn 300b owners) I need a bit of input.  Is it normal for the bias to constantly be drifting around every time I turn the amp on?  I set them to 34mA but the next time I power on it is always a couple mA different.  I thought the tubes were supposed to stabilize more or less after a certain point?  Also how long should the amp be on before setting the bias?  I know it drifts around a little during the first few minutes.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## 2359glenn

Have you ever measured your line voltage ?
 If your line voltage drifts during the day the bias will change with fixed bias.
 It stayed fairly steady at my house except for last Saturday morning it went up
 to 40 ma from 38. I figured the 120 was running a little hot at 6 am Saturday morning.
 A couple of ma up or down really don't matter that much.
 Are you using the same tubes I had?
  
 I really don't like using voltage regulators plus didn't have the room for a more tubes.
 And it makes the sound worse plus VR tubes make noise.


----------



## Clayton SF

xcalibur255 said:


> I'll have to be the bad guy and interrupt the food talk with a technical question.
> 
> So for those who have manual bias amps (aka Glenn 300b owners) I need a bit of input.  Is it normal for the bias to constantly be drifting around every time I turn the amp on?  I set them to 34mA but the next time I power on it is always a couple mA different.  I thought the tubes were supposed to stabilize more or less after a certain point?  Also how long should the amp be on before setting the bias?  I know it drifts around a little during the first few minutes.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 I've seen Ultra-'s listening room. I have been in it. I have also been in his kitchen with chocolate sauce. Really! This guy has everything! He just needs me for a housemate. 
  
 My bias is usually always the same with the some rectifiers. But some others it may drift slightly up or down a few hours later. Like from 80mA to 75mA.
  
 When I adjust it back to 80mA from 75mA after a few hours, the next time I turn it on I may have to readjust it again but only very little. Sometimes I just don't bother because I can't hear the difference.
  
 On one of the volume controls (a stepped attenuator) sometimes it jumps from 80mA to 30mA and back again when going from one step to another. It is usually a noisy step--probably due to dirt or dust.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Have you ever measured your line voltage ?
> If your line voltage drifts during the day the bias will change with fixed bias.
> It stayed fairly steady at my house except for last Saturday morning it went up
> to 40 ma from 38. I figured the 120 was running a little hot at 6 am Saturday morning.
> ...


 
 Yes they are the Emperor (RCA) tubes I sent to you.  Since one of the NUs went gassy I couldn't try them.  I have other tubes but I haven't run them yet.  I'm also running the 6BY5s you sent.  I started out with a pair of my own but one of them had a bad solder on the heater pin so I'm throwing it out.  The cause of last night's drama.........  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm not worried about the drift I was just wondering if it was normal or not.  I'm new to manual bias after all.  I've never measured the voltage in my apartment, I suppose I could I do have a multimeter. 
  
 Should I adjust the DC when it moves around or just let the tubes draw what they want as long as it stays under 40?  After being on for an hour they settled just a bit from 36 to 35.  I had them stable at exactly 34 last night.  I've also noticed that this amp really needs at least 15 minutes of warm up before any kind of listening.  It's sort of like a carburetor engine it just kind of sputters until it warms up.  I'm guessing it is the old 45s causing that.  I'm sort of itching to try my Tung Sols actually but I will hold off a bit longer.


----------



## rosgr63

I have noticed that sometimes but not often my bias drifts with the same tubes.
  
 I don't bother to adjust it just check it after 30 mins.
 Even if it's slightly off I don't bother adjusting it.
  
 A cheap DMM is a nice device to have.
 Some "crazy" tube people have a DMM collection too!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> It won't fit in my carry-on luggage...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Now you are letting me down 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


longbowbbs said:


> That Coke machine would be a very short Tardis....


 
  
 Perfect as long s you can fit some audio gear inside.
  


clayton sf said:


> Eric knows about my Apple Pie Machine. It dispenses Apple Pie AND Whipped Cream. Maybe I can bring that.
> 
> _*"Attention all Captains: be at the ready!"*_


 
  
  
 Clayton you are not my friend anymore.
 You never told me about your Apple Pie Machine.
 I feel left out.
  


dminches said:


> I will take all of them, a la mode.


 
  
 David please be tough and set the rules, or else we'll go wild.


----------



## 2359glenn

Tyrell
  
 1ma is not going to matter much I don't think the sound will change much with a change of 1ma.
 Also you got to realize these are very old tubes and have been sitting for 70 years.
 One of those Emperor 45s tested week when you first sent them and I tested them.
 I switched to them when one of NUs lit up with gas in the amp.
 If you switch the Emperors after you set the bias you will notice a big difference in cathode current.
  
 How about a picture of the C3g with the can removed and the filament on.


----------



## Ultrainferno

With my Glenn 300b amp the bias has to be reset with every "new" rectifier when I switch them. After that the bias stays the same between sessions. I'm running them at 70, Clayton is at 80 I think.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> With my Glenn 300b amp the bias has to be reset with every "new" rectifier when I switch them. After that the bias stays the same between sessions. I'm running them at 70, Clayton is at 80 I think.


 
 Every rectifier will have a different voltage drop changing the  B+ voltage that is why you have to adjust with a rectifier change.


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> Clayton you are not my friend anymore.
> You never told me about your Apple Pie Machine.
> I feel left out.


 
  
 Okay. Who done that? That Apple Pie Machine was supposed to be a surprise. It was supposed to be set up next to the Rum and Coke Machine! Ultra- is building something else to bring on board the ship. Now someone has gone and spoiled the surprise by letting the secret out! 
  
 Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> With my Glenn 300b amp the bias has to be reset with every "new" rectifier when I switch them. After that the bias stays the same between sessions. I'm running them at 70, Clayton is at 80 I think.


 
 I'm older than you. That's why Glenn set mine at 80 and yours at 70.


----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> I'm older than you. That's why Glenn set mine at 80 and yours at 70.


 
  
 This is the best explanation I ever heard.
  
 Is that a gauge for wisdom too?


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Every rectifier will have a different voltage drop changing the  B+ voltage that is why you have to adjust with a rectifier change.


 
  
 I find changing the bias fun actually, it's cool.
  


clayton sf said:


> I'm older than you. That's why Glenn set mine at 80 and yours at 70.


 
  
 Well yes that, or the 220V has something to do with it


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I find changing the bias fun actually, it's cool.


 
  
 I agree! This morning I was adjusting the bias just a tad on both monoblocks and felt like Dr. Frankenstein....
  
 IT'S ALIVE!


----------



## 2359glenn

I set Ultra's lower to be easier on the rectifier his rectifier is feeding
 two 300Bs and two C3g 70+70+20+20= 180 ma for the rectifier plus to have to recharge the caps.
 Clayton's mono block 70+20= 90 ma for the rectifier much easier on it.
 160ma is about max for a 5U4G a GZ37 can handle much more but might leave it at 70 if you are
 using the RK60 rectifier that is similar to a 5U4G.
 plus most 300Bs recommend 70ma JJ can handle a little more.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm an RK60 fan. I switch between that and the 5U4GB


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > I find changing the bias fun actually, it's cool.
> ...


 
  
 I get to adjust my Bias every time I watch the TV News....


----------



## Clayton SF

xcalibur255 said:


>


 
  
 Another member of the Glenn Amp mA Meter Club.
 Hey, I recognize that cart!


----------



## Silent One

_('Silent One' quietly walks up to the storefront window and looks in..."WOWZA.")_


----------



## dminches

Glenn/Tyrell, what transformers were put into that beautiful amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

The Transformers are Lundahl the best you can get very expensive though


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Tyrell
> 
> 1ma is not going to matter much I don't think the sound will change much with a change of 1ma.
> Also you got to realize these are very old tubes and have been sitting for 70 years.
> ...


 
  
 All good points.  I'm learning what needs to be learned about working with old DHTs slowly but surely.  You touched on another question I had, if I put a different pair of tubes in will the bias be way higher or lower?  If the current jumps way up for a short period of time can the tube literally be fried by that if it is too high, and conversely is there such a thing as too low as well?  I am going to get another 46 tube and try your adapters as well, but the nominal current on a 46 is I think 22mA.... so what happens when I put them in the socket will they shoot up the 36 and get fried?  There is so much to know and it's hard to guess without a working knowledge of the circuit.  I need your wisdom!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Is it a good idea to turn the bias down some before swapping tubes, or just put the new ones in and adjust once they are conducting and you can see where they are drawing at?
  
 I don't claim to have golden ears, but each change from 32 to 34 to 36 produced a difference in sound I found quite easy to spot.  So far higher seems to sound better.  Once I went to 36 the amp really began to achieve the transparency I was hoping for.  It tightened up the bass very nicely too.  Maybe I'm just crazy, but the tubes seem to sound better after I adjust bias too, whether it be up or down.  The treble seemed a little harsh yesterday, the longer I listened it kept getting more "tizzy" but the second I tweaked the bias pots it went away and sounded great.  Maybe these Emperor tubes are just not very good 45s, I was not very confident about them when I bought them but the Emperor branding was really unique so I bit.  Next week I will probably switch to my Tung Sols.  I want to see how much change in sound I'm going to get by rolling the 45s.
  
 I did try to get a photo of the amp running but they won't turn out, it always looks really crappy.  The C3g doesn't glow brightly, there is a mild glow at the top edge of the filament and a dim red glow along the heater/cathode (not sure if I even have that right?), but all in all they are sort of like the 45s they don't put on much of a light show.  The rectifiers produce the most glow by far which isn't saying much because you are just getting 4 glowing dots there too.  I still say the 5998 is the most beautiful tube to see in the dark.  They are like bright orange jewels.  The OTL puts on a much better light show than the 45 does. 
  
 My thanks btw, to Stavros and Clayton for their helpful responses.  Glenn too of course.  I want to make sure I'm following good practices with biasing.  The training wheels are off but I'm not riding steady yet.


----------



## Xcalibur255

dminches said:


> Glenn/Tyrell, what transformers were put into that beautiful amp?


 
 Lundahl LL1664s if I'm not mistaken.  Glenn thinks I'm crazy spending so much money on high dollar parts, but these are actually very reasonably priced compared to the crazy Tango and Tamura transformers from Japan.  I think Lundahl hits a good sweet spot in terms of price/performance, though that is not really based on anything but my own gut feeling.  They're actually not much higher than One Electron which is considered a budget transformer, but the price of the metal covers has to be taken into account too so overall they are a little expensive.  Lundahls are really ugly looking without the covers so they're pretty necessary.
  
 I would like to get some custom O'netics transformers from Bud Purvine for my future 300B monoblocks, but maybe it would be easier to just do Lundahl again.  Glenn seemed to really like the Lundahl main power transformers too.


----------



## Xcalibur255

clayton sf said:


> Another member of the Glenn Amp mA Meter Club.
> Hey, I recognize that cart!


 
  
 My hat is off to you for introducing me to the joys of owning furniture with wheels on it.


----------



## rosgr63

You can expect different biasing with different tubes of the same type depending how strong they are.
  
 But once they settle in you should not need to change the bias.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> All good points.  I'm learning what needs to be learned about working with old DHTs slowly but surely.  You touched on another question I had, if I put a different pair of tubes in will the bias be way higher or lower?  If the current jumps way up for a short period of time can the tube literally be fried by that if it is too high, and conversely is there such a thing as too low as well?  I am going to get another 46 tube and try your adapters as well, but the nominal current on a 46 is I think 22mA.... so what happens when I put them in the socket will they shoot up the 36 and get fried?  There is so much to know and it's hard to guess without a working knowledge of the circuit.  I need your wisdom!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 When you put in a 46 the cathode current will go way down and you will have to turn it up
 I did try the 46 and ran it at 38 ma it actually has a larger plate then the 45 and can handle the 38ma.
 You just have to remember to turn down the bias pot before putting the 45 back in.
 the 46 is a low cost tube so if you run it hot it don't really matter..
  
 DHTs sound best when run hot at there max current.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> I would like to get some custom O'netics transformers from Bud Purvine for my future 300B monoblocks, but maybe it would be easier to just do Lundahl again.  Glenn seemed to really like the Lundahl main power transformers too.


 
  
 I still will use the Lundahl Power transformer on all amps that have output transformers. No mater what the cost of them are.
 So the output transformer don't pick up hum from the power transformer Lundahl have very little magnetic field around them.


----------



## Ultrainferno

My 300b does make some noise, luckily it's not audible when listening


----------



## 2359glenn

That is why I am using only Lundahl power/mains transformers from nowon
 Tyrells amp is dead silent no hum pickup from the power transformer.
 Your R core transformer is not that bad as E-I transformers I will only use
 these with OTL amps from now on.
 OTLs have no output transformers to pick up the hum.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Anything I can physically do to reduce it maybe? Like change the feet or something? (A suggestion from Stavros)


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Anything I can physically do to reduce it maybe? Like change the feet or something? (A suggestion from Stavros)


 
 You can try to change the feet the transformer could be vibrating at 50Hz and be picked up by the tubes.
 Make sure you take off the bottom plate and remove the nuts or you will break off the screws trying to remove them.
 The plate is threaded and the nut locks it.
 But it is probably the magnetic field being picked up by the output transformers. This is why I am switching to
 Lundalh power/mains transformers.They do not radiate a magnetic field like other transformers.
 You can look in the Leben CS300 thread they have the same problem and that is a very expensive amp with
 a cheap power supply. But it is the power/maines transformer that is causing the problem.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Don't get me wrong, the buzz is not audible trough the speakers or headphones (luckily)n like I said it is the best sounding amp for my he-500. You can just hear the amp buzz on the table.

So maybe changing the feet might decrease the contact with the table and maybe that would reduce the buzzing impact


----------



## john57

It seems that your are talking about the mechanical hum not hum thru the lines. If this happens to me I sometimes check the mounting screws for the transformer making sure they are tight and/or use rubber washers. Tall rubber feet for the bottom of the unit is something that I would look into.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Don't get me wrong, the buzz is not audible trough the speakers or headphones (luckily)n like I said it is the best sounding amp for my he-500. You can just hear the amp buzz on the table.
> 
> So maybe changing the feet might decrease the contact with the table and maybe that would reduce the buzzing impact


 
 Changing the feet might do it I guess the transformer is vibrating at 50Hz  I didn't notice this at 60Hz in the US
 but maybe it was there and I didn't notice it. And the table I had it on when listening had a Slate top that weighs
 a tun. Don't think it can transfer vibrations into that.
  
 Also maybe putting something under the amp will stop it.
  
 Just remember to remove the bottom and remove the nuts before trying to unscrew the feet


----------



## Xcalibur255

I can attest that my amp is dead silent. The noise floor is remarkably low for a tube amp. The 45 tubes themselves seem to make a high pitch whine, not in the headphones but physically in a way you can hear anywhere in the room. Might just be these particular tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

My Glenn Amp 300B mono blocks sound incredibly fine now. The bass has opened up and the highs are clean without rolling off. Midrange is excellent too. But it took about 6 months to settle on a tube: The Russian 5U4G black plate rectifier. Since I was rolling rectifiers I think that the Russians just needed time to break in. Also up there with the Russian is the RK-60. Very close in sound but ever so slightly warmer. The next are the GZ37 and the Tung-Sol 5U4GB. The GZ37 are the warmest and give the amp a little more oomph.
  
 There is a slight hum that comes out of the speakers but you can't hear it from where I am sitting which is 5 feet away from the Zu Audio Omens.
  
 I am very happy.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Changing the feet might do it I guess the transformer is vibrating at 50Hz  I didn't notice this at 60Hz in the US
> but maybe it was there and I didn't notice it. And the table I had it on when listening had a Slate top that weighs
> a tun. Don't think it can transfer vibrations into that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll upload a small video later to show you what it does


----------



## dminches

Clayton, what drivers are you using with the 300Bs?


----------



## Clayton SF

dminches said:


> Clayton, what drivers are you using with the 300Bs?


 
 C3g Post (still clad in its stealth-black shield).


----------



## Ultrainferno

Me too. What a coincidence


----------



## Ultrainferno

Never mind my excellent video skills


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Never mind my excellent video skills
> 
> 
> 
> ...




  
_*I have seen this amp in person!*_
 I hear a Geiger counter in the background.
 And a clock.
 And heavy breathing.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> _*I have seen this amp in person!*_
> 1. I hear a Geiger counter in the background.
> 2. And a clock.
> 3. And heavy breathing.


 
  
 New video online C.
 Is the buzzing clear? Was much better on the original MOV file


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> New video online C.
> Is the buzzing clear? Was much better on the original MOV file


 
  
 Field Recordings... _excellent strategy._


----------



## Ultrainferno

silent one said:


> Field Recordings... _excellent strategy._


 
  
  
 Nos let's just hope there's a cure!


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Nos let's just hope there's a cure!


 
  
 Have you learned if there is any change in this sound being produced by changing any combination of feet and the surfaces your amp sits on? Sometimes, when elimination is not possible, minimizing becomes a satisfying and reachable goal.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I still have to change the feet to try, but as I don't have any I'll need to buy them first


----------



## Silent One

You may have settled on the perfect placement. But for experimental purposes, try moving the amp onto different surfaces. Why go to the Spa or the Gym? When you could move/pump iron right from the listening room... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_ ask Clayton SF!_


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I still have to change the feet to try, but as I don't have any I'll need to buy them first


 
 Ultra-, my 300B Glenn Amp mono blocks have a mechanical hum like yours. I've heard yours and it sounds just like mine. Same intensity, etc. I have placed my mono blocks on thick rubber discs (usually reserved for wine glasses) and the sound did not change. Cork didn't help either. I have also lifted the amp off its feet and held it suspended for a few seconds (it is heavy) and the sound didn't change either. I even placed spacers under just the front two feet thereby lifting the front of the chassis at an angle of 1-inch higher than the back--no change either.
  
 Why don't you try putting cork or rubber coasters under your amp to to try it out? Your room is smaller which amplifies the mechanical hum. Mine gets drowned out by the traffic going past my apartment on Pine Street.


----------



## Skylab

A fairly significant number of my audio products will exhibit a mechanical buzzing from the power transformer when the dimmers in my kitchen are on. When they are not - no buzz. Even my Martin Logan sub does this. Not audible at all from the speakers, it's truly just mechanical. And turning the dimmers off solves the issue. It's obviously that the dimmers are polluting the AC in my house BADLY, even to an extent that line conditioners don't seem to block effectively. 

So make sure your dimmers are off!


----------



## Clayton SF

skylab said:


> So make sure your dimmers are off!


 
  
 Good suggestion. My dimmer is always on. And it is in the same room as my buzzing amps.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I don't have any dimmers


----------



## dminches

Rob, are the dimmers are different circuits than your equipment and still causing noise?
  
 Someone needs to make audiophile dimmers. Personally, I hate them.  But, my wife is always using them since she doesn't like a lot of light.  In my big room I keep the dimmers off.


----------



## Skylab

dminches said:


> Rob, are the dimmers are different circuits than your equipment and still causing noise?
> 
> Someone needs to make audiophile dimmers. Personally, I hate them.  But, my wife is always using them since she doesn't like a lot of light.  In my big room I keep the dimmers off.


 
  
 Amazingly, yes.  I have a dedicated 20A  "home run" to my panel for the hifi - and it still happens.  That dimmer somehow pollutes every circuit in the house.


----------



## john57

dminches said:


> Rob, are the dimmers are different circuits than your equipment and still causing noise?
> 
> Someone needs to make audiophile dimmers. Personally, I hate them.  But, my wife is always using them since she doesn't like a lot of light.  In my big room I keep the dimmers off.


 
  
 There are audiophile or what I would call studio quality dimmers but they are not cheap. Here is a link to the Luxtrol brand which is used in some professional recording studios.
  
http://www.musson.com/luxtrol-wbd800-wall-box-dimmer.html
  
 That is one of their cheaper models. You may find one cheaper on Ebay. They will not fit in a standard wall outlet box. These are variacs designed to put in the wall not the SCR type that chops off the AC waveform that you can buy at Home Depot. There are some SCR types with a lot of control circuitry  that might work but I have not investigate them. Each time someone mention noise issues with dimmers it bring up bad memories I had with the dimmers in the past. Other methods like using track lights with switchable banks may work in some setups.


----------



## rosgr63

You can also try some other form of damping, like increasing the transformer mass by putting a weight on top.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Really? Is that safe? what do you suggest to put on it stavros?


----------



## rosgr63

Look into Mapleshade products:
  
 http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/departments.asp?dept=103


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> You can also try some other form of damping, like increasing the transformer mass by putting a weight on top.


 
 I did that. I put a potted palm tree on top of it and it shook all of its leaves off of the tree.


----------



## wotts

rosgr63 said:


> Look into Mapleshade products:
> 
> http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/departments.asp?dept=103


 
  
  
  
 I have my OTL one of their blocks. I did some tapping on the desk while the amp was on and off of the block and it did reduce the vibration noise.


----------



## 2359glenn

I think I should add $100.00 BS charge to all amps


----------



## warchild

Only if it decreases sonic resonance by .05%!!
 Then it might be worth $200.00


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm listening to my Glenn Amp 300B mono blocks. Sweet as candy. (Can you believe that, Stavros?)


----------



## rosgr63

I like it Clayton, sweet and wonderful as honey!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## john57

I am trying out some nice NOS Ken Rad and RCA 6C8G in original boxes using Glenn wonderful 6F8G adapters 

  
  
  from Roy and Dale Rogalski. It costs me just $4.75 per tube and that includes shipping. Alright!


----------



## Silent One

I really like this...
  

  
 I need to save up some cash so I can buy some product from the studio - stamped & shipped!


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> I really like this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Well liked indeed! I will agree on the savings bit. I have a plan up my sleeve.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> I'm listening to my Glenn Amp 300B mono blocks. Sweet as candy. (Can you believe that, Stavros?)


 
  
 I believe you. Earlier this week, I told my gf I'd be upstairs for 15 minutes, just to listen to one song. Of course Glenn's amp kept me there for 2 hours and I only got visual and no sound from her when I came back downstairs.
 I told her to take it up with Glenn, it's not my fault.
  
 About those weird looking copper blocks, I'm not buying it really. It's like this (read the comments):
  
 http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-K2-Terminated-Speaker-Cable/dp/B000J36XR2/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


----------



## john57

ultrainferno said:


> I believe you. Earlier this week, I told my gf I'd be upstairs for 15 minutes, just to listen to one song. Of course Glenn's amp kept me there for 2 hours and I only got visual and no sound from her when I came back downstairs.
> I told her to take it up with Glenn, it's not my fault.
> 
> About those weird looking copper blocks, I'm not buying it really. It's like this (read the comments):
> ...


 
  
 Look at all the side pictures. Keeps me laughing. I never saw that type of ad before on Amazon. How did you find it?


----------



## Ultrainferno

There are a couple of these on amazon, no idea where I picked this one up. Have you seen the site of our good friend, the übertroll, patrick82, who's been banned from Headfi (look up his posts)
  
 http://www.coconut-audio.com/
  
 Awesome site


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> Well liked indeed! I will agree on the savings bit. I have a plan up my sleeve.


 
  




  
 I'll keep snackin' & guessing tonight!


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice logo John, great work!
  
 Can you let us know Dale and Roy Rogalski's website please?
  
  
 Actually patrick82 was lots of fun, he was banned a couple of times before it became final.
 Remember his power cables and kitty cat photos and videos?
  
 We had lots of fun, he still wonders why he got banned......


----------



## 2359glenn

It was actually Seamaster that made that Logo


----------



## rosgr63

Yes, now I remember.


----------



## 2359glenn

I just forwarded your E-Mail to the guys here at work


----------



## rosgr63

Are they technical minded like me and you?


----------



## 2359glenn

Oh yes two of them are my bosses and the other is a chemist. 
 They all like technical literature.


----------



## rosgr63

If they have any questions I'll be more than happy to send additional info.
  
 Just don't tell L, please...........


----------



## 2359glenn

Additional info is always appreciated
  
 L is already mad at me for telling you her birthday
  
 There is no problem sharing technical info between our company's as we don't compete
 with each other.


----------



## rosgr63

I am in deep sh..... again aren't I?
  
 Listening to my GR 6SN7/LP2/5998, Fivre 6SN7 driver, RCA 3DG4 rectifier, Tung-Sol 5998's driving my Maestro, it sounds ever so good, I am dancing away on my seat.
  
 W thinks I am ready for the strait jacket...........
  
 Jazz never sounded so good.


----------



## Silent One

I love your ability to balance life, rosgr63. Living on the razor's edge one moment, completely relaxed with Jazz in the _next..._


----------



## rosgr63

Listening to Soulful Vibes by Roy Ayers and The Magic Touch by DJ Rodriguez.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I am in deep sh..... again aren't I?
> 
> Listening to my GR 6SN7/LP2/5998, Fivre 6SN7 driver, RCA 3DG4 rectifier, Tung-Sol 5998's driving my Maestro, it sounds ever so good, I am dancing away on my seat.
> 
> ...


 
 L was just in my office  and she wants to know if it is vibrating if it is she is on her way there.


----------



## rosgr63

Acid Jazz is good.............
  
 I don't know why but I am in a crazy mood.
  
 Maybe I think too much of Kyoritsu, WE328A's, 8005's and #26.
  
 Going for a shower.


----------



## john57

rosgr63 said:


> Very nice logo John, great work!
> 
> Can you let us know Dale and Roy Rogalski's website please?
> 
> ...


 
 Actually like Glenn said Seamaster made that Logo. While having a nice stamped metal tag on Glenn equipment is nice I took it a step further. I asked Seamaster for a copy of the Logo and I recreated the Logo by hand into to a 3D picture file. I then put the file into an electronic 3D picture frame and hang it on the wall. It does not require glasses. That way if you have friends come over and you are showing off Glenn equipment and they will see it that is from Glenn studios in 3D. I wanted to do more work on it and give it a bit more of color to the letters it so that the 3D effect will be a bit stronger as well. I am going to remember Glenn more as person even though I have never actually met him. 
 Dale and Roy Rogalski's website is vacuumtube.*net *They had some Bendix 6080WB Red Bank tubes at a very good price last week but it is gone now. You can find some good bargains and you may need to call or write to them. One of the good deals I got was the GE 6DJ8 smokies and they are very good for the money. 
    I looked at some patrick82 posts briefly and noticed the kitty cat photos. 
 I am working on recreating my DAW(Digital Audio Workstation) on my computer. I wanted to get back to composing music. To compose music using acoustical type of instruments on the computer requires a great deal of resources in space, memory and CPU. I have two OS(operating system) partitions on the same computer. I tell the computer which partition to use during bootup so that I will avoid software and hardware conflicts.  I am getting a cheap portable Korg MIDI controller keyboard for about $70 for pre-production work. I still have two full size keyboards to use for post production. I upgraded my Cakewalk software to Sonar X3 because it was the cheapest way to get the Melodyne Essential with ARA integration. Otherwise I would get Presonus Studio One. The high end Pro Tools is just too expensive. For low cost DAW REAPER at http://www.reaper.fm/ is a good choice. For music notation I decided to use Notion since it is better integrated for use with DAW’s in mind than Finale or Sibelius which I also own.  That all for today back to work!


----------



## Silent One

john57 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your effort with the logo proved fantastic! Perhaps, I could get a copy via PM? Also, Dale has always taken great care of me!


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Listening to Soulful Vibes by Roy Ayers and The Magic Touch by DJ Rodriguez.


 
  
 Coincidentally, the last track I played before going to bed @ sunrise was Roy Ayers "Freaky Deaky."


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> Coincidentally, the last track I played before going to bed @ sunrise was Roy Ayers "Freaky Deaky."


 
  
 And... coincidentally I played the 12-inch vinyl version of _Running Away_ last Saturday for a visiting friend.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Could existing 2359 owners get the badge too?


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Could existing 2359 owners get the badge too?


 
  
 Ultra- I thought you went to bed. Anyway, where you are it is Friday already.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> And... coincidentally I played the 12-inch vinyl version of _Running Away_ last Saturday for a visiting friend.


 
  






We absolutely love that track!


----------



## longbowbbs

Stavros, I got to play with some toys this week....


----------



## wotts

longbowbbs said:


> Stavros, I got to play with some toys this week....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 !!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   !!!
  
  
 What might those beauties be?


----------



## Silent One

Who makes it? What is it?


----------



## Xcalibur255

AtmaSphere?  I can't think of anything else that uses so many 6AS7 tubes.


----------



## rosgr63

john57 said:


> Actually like Glenn said Seamaster made that Logo. While having a nice stamped metal tag on Glenn equipment is nice I took it a step further. I asked Seamaster for a copy of the Logo and I recreated the Logo by hand into to a 3D picture file. I then put the file into an electronic 3D picture frame and hang it on the wall. It does not require glasses. That way if you have friends come over and you are showing off Glenn equipment and they will see it that is from Glenn studios in 3D. I wanted to do more work on it and give it a bit more of color to the letters it so that the 3D effect will be a bit stronger as well. I am going to remember Glenn more as person even though I have never actually met him.
> Dale and Roy Rogalski's website is vacuumtube.*net *They had some Bendix 6080WB Red Bank tubes at a very good price last week but it is gone now. You can find some good bargains and you may need to call or write to them. One of the good deals I got was the GE 6DJ8 smokies and they are very good for the money.
> I looked at some patrick82 posts briefly and noticed the kitty cat photos.
> I am working on recreating my DAW(Digital Audio Workstation) on my computer. I wanted to get back to composing music. To compose music using acoustical type of instruments on the computer requires a great deal of resources in space, memory and CPU. I have two OS(operating system) partitions on the same computer. I tell the computer which partition to use during bootup so that I will avoid software and hardware conflicts.  I am getting a cheap portable Korg MIDI controller keyboard for about $70 for pre-production work. I still have two full size keyboards to use for post production. I upgraded my Cakewalk software to Sonar X3 because it was the cheapest way to get the Melodyne Essential with ARA integration. Otherwise I would get Presonus Studio One. The high end Pro Tools is just too expensive. For low cost DAW REAPER at http://www.reaper.fm/ is a good choice. For music notation I decided to use Notion since it is better integrated for use with DAW’s in mind than Finale or Sibelius which I also own.  That all for today back to work!


 
  
 You are very gifted John, I wish I could be like that.
  
 It's a small world John.
 I use Vacuumtubes.net but I communicate with Barry, I sent him some photos of my tubes.
 I hope to surprise him more soon.
 I got a Bendix 6080WB quad from them, very nice tubes and cheap.
 First Class service.
  
 Ideally I would like to have a metal logo made so I can put it on my gear.
  


longbowbbs said:


> Stavros, I got to play with some toys this week....


 
  
  
 You are so bad Eric!!!!!!
 How did you like them?
 Were the tubes NOS or re-issues?


----------



## Silent One

He must still be dilly dallying around the amps 'cause we ain't heard from him.


----------



## rosgr63

Our Chief Officer sea sick?????
  
 No way.........probably in love..........with the amps!!!!!!!!!


----------



## magiccabbage

the tube monster!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Yowza!
  
 Glenn, do you have an OT design as well? Like the Woo Audio 6 SE or the WA22?


----------



## longbowbbs

So sorry everyone. I am at a sales meeting and it is very busy. No play time for 3 days.

The amps are Atma-Sphere's. The L&R are Mono's and the center is the Stereo amp. The tubes were current gen, not NOS as these are new amps for sale at Audio Perfection in Minneapolis. They are wonderful on a pair of Wilson Sophia's.....They were uncrating a new pair of Wilson Duette 2's that just came out. 400 pounds shipping weight in 3 wooden crates for a pair of Monitors and stands!!


----------



## magiccabbage

my god


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> So sorry everyone. I am at a sales meeting and it is very busy. No play time for 3 days.
> 
> The amps are Atma-Sphere's. The L&R are Mono's and the center is the Stereo amp. The tubes were current gen, not NOS as these are new amps for sale at Audio Perfection in Minneapolis. They are wonderful on a pair of Wilson Sophia's.....They were uncrating a new pair of Wilson Duette 2's that just came out.* 400 pounds shipping weight in 3 wooden crates* for a pair of Monitors and stands!!


 
  
 Just right for a bed side rig!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

I am thinking about attending the _*Burning Amp 2013*_ in SF tomorrow. Anyone else going?
 If I could haul Glenn's amps to this event and place them on display I would.


----------



## daigo

rosgr63 said:


> Just right for a bed side rig!!!!!!


 
  
 Or a boat anchor!


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> I am thinking about attending the _*Burning Amp 2013*_ in SF tomorrow. Anyone else going?
> If I could haul Glenn's amps to this event and place them on display I would.


 
  
 Love that concept!


----------



## yilishen

Thanks to him I can enjoy one of the best sounding and unique looking rectifiers for my amp. Cheers Glenn, and thanks for everything.


----------



## Silent One

yilishen said:


> Thanks to him I can enjoy one of the best sounding and unique looking rectifiers for my amp. Cheers Glenn, and thanks for everything.


 
  
 I'm not sure, but I think I'm missing a pix being displayed in your post.


----------



## longbowbbs

New toy in the house!


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> New toy in the house!


 
  
 Mother of god. Were did you get that? I saw someone on here with it before, maybe it was you?


----------



## magiccabbage

what tubes are those


----------



## longbowbbs

I scored HUGE on Audiogon! This is a Cary SLI-80 with virtually all of the F1 modifications. Retail $4995....My price.....$1600!! I sold my Taboo MK III for $1500. Basically I swapped the Taboo for the Cary.
  
 It has 4 Golden Lion KT88's, 2 Philips 5R4GSY's, 2 Electro Harmonix 6SN7's and 2 Golden Lion 6922's. I do have a pair of 5U4G SovTek's and a pair of NOS Sylvania 6922's available as well.
  
 40 Watt's class A Triode or 80 Watts A/B Ultra linear. The HP output is wired straight off the tubes with a resistor to step down the power. 
  
 Yeah Baby!


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations Eric, it looks very nice, excellent deal, well done!!!!!
  
 Happy Listening.


----------



## longbowbbs

Thanks Stavros! This is am amp I have been interested in for years.


----------



## Ultrainferno

WOW! Congrats Eric, I'm in love with it. so beautiful!
  
 Review please


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> I scored HUGE on Audiogon! This is a Cary SLI-80 with virtually all of the F1 modifications. Retail $4995....My price.....$1600!! I sold my Taboo MK III for $1500. Basically I swapped the Taboo for the Cary.
> 
> It has 4 Golden Lion KT88's, 2 Philips 5R4GSY's, 2 Electro Harmonix 6SN7's and 2 Golden Lion 6922's. I do have a pair of 5U4G SovTek's and a pair of NOS Sylvania 6922's available as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 what lunatic sold it for 1600


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> Thanks Stavros! This is am amp I have been interested in for years.


 
  
  
 I know Eric, it's a fantastic amp to have that'll give you years of pleasure.
  
 Enjoy it my friend


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> I scored HUGE on Audiogon! This is a Cary SLI-80 with virtually all of the F1 modifications. Retail $4995....My price.....$1600!! I sold my Taboo MK III for $1500. Basically I swapped the Taboo for the Cary.
> 
> It has 4 Golden Lion KT88's, 2 Philips 5R4GSY's, 2 Electro Harmonix 6SN7's and 2 Golden Lion 6922's. I do have a pair of 5U4G SovTek's and a pair of NOS Sylvania 6922's available as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 strictly speakers?


----------



## rosgr63

Eric to keep me happy get a couple of NOS 6SN7's please...............


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I scored HUGE on Audiogon! This is a Cary SLI-80 with virtually all of the F1 modifications. Retail $4995....My price.....$1600!! I sold my Taboo MK III for $1500. Basically I swapped the Taboo for the Cary.
> ...


 
  
 Nope...It is a terrific amp for my HD800/HD650's as well. That is what I used when I first listened to it over a year ago. Then I heard it with a pair of KEF 207/2 Reference speakers..Best sound from a system I had ever heard.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Eric to keep me happy get a couple of NOS 6SN7's please...............


 
  
 Suggestions are welcome. There are too many of them and I have never used 6SN7's before.


----------



## longbowbbs

OK, in honor of Clayton and his generous contribution toward the 5000th post, here is the SLI-80 sporting a pair of USAF-596's!
  

  

  
 Notice the 2359Glenn adapters!


----------



## 2359glenn

Nice amp Eric
  
 Now you need a quad of GEC KT88
 and pair of Tung-Sol 6SN7s or Tung-sol or National Union 6F8G round plate


----------



## longbowbbs

Hmmmm...$350-$500 per tube on eBay for the GEC KT88's....I am not sure if I want to go there yet. There seem to be many varieties of Tung Sols and the prices are all over the place. I am a complete n00b with 6SN7's....


----------



## 2359glenn

I like to replace the 6SN7 with 6F8Gs
 But if you want to stay with 6SN7s best ask Stavros he is the expert on 6SN7s
 Skip the KT88s for awhile I didn't know they were that expensive now.


----------



## longbowbbs

I think I am going to spend some time with what I have and do some research. These are supposed to be a step up from stock. I am pleased the 596's are working fine. I have always enjoyed them. I appreciate the suggestions very much. It appears the 6SN7/6F8G category is a huge sub genre to learn!


----------



## dminches

The advantage of the 6F8Gs over 6SN7s is that they are cheaper for a very similar sound.


----------



## longbowbbs

I like that!


----------



## Silent One

Apparently, Wisconsin is now home to happy cows and happy tunes... congrats on the new iron!


----------



## john57

You can also use 7N7 tubes witch is the loctal version of 6SN7 with adapters as well. I have a full box of them cheap.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

dminches said:


> The advantage of the 6F8Gs over 6SN7s is that they are cheaper for a very similar sound.


 
  
 My TS 6F8Gs have a very loud noise floor compared to my Sylvania 6SN7GTs.  Maybe I haven't given them sufficient time to burn in, but they seem to introduce a very loud hum that is not present with the 6SN7s.  I'm using them in my WA22, so you may get different (better?) results with your Glennamp.  I do like the sound of the tubes, though.  They seem to give very clear mids without giving up anything in the lower end compared to the 6SN7s.  Just something to consider.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Nice amp Eric
> 
> Now you need a quad of GEC KT88
> and pair of Tung-Sol 6SN7s or Tung-sol or National Union 6F8G round plate


 
  
 TS 6SN7GTB NOS for $50 a piece, how's that price?


----------



## 2359glenn

Are they round plate ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'd have to check!


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> Apparently, Wisconsin is now home to happy cows and happy tunes... congrats on the new iron!


 
  
 Thanks SO!


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> OK, in honor of Clayton and his generous contribution toward the 5000th post, here is the SLI-80 sporting a pair of USAF-596's!




Thanks. I'm glad that alien 595 made to your doorstep in one piece.


----------



## longbowbbs

One glorious piece....


----------



## rosgr63

TS 6SN7GTB's can't be round plates.
 They usually have a strong low end, a lot would depend on the synergy with the other tubes.
  
 Eric I suggest a pair of humble Hytron 6SN7's or TS 6SN7 Mouse Ears, or Sylvania or RCA nothing more than $50 for a pair.


----------



## longbowbbs

Thanks Stavros...Amazing variety of choices in this tube catagory!


----------



## Ultrainferno

SO I'm thinking of getting new feet for the Glenn Amp, something spikey and cheap. Any suggestions?
 I'll probably get an Ikea cutting board, euh I mean a wooden surface plate to minimize contact to go along with it, too.
  
 (for those who didn't get it, the SO is a reference to Silent One who has gorgeous feet on his Glenn OTL. But they're a bit expensive if I remember well) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit pic:


----------



## Silent One

Those are Dayton Speaker spikes underneath the OTL - inexpensive. It's the 2.7gram Brass footers I have that are costly.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> I am thinking about attending the _*Burning Amp 2013*_ in SF tomorrow. Anyone else going?
> If I could haul Glenn's amps to this event and place them on display I would.


 
  
 So, how did it go? (previously asked in the wrong thread...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Ultrainferno

SO, Glenn,
  
 for new feet, would I need M6 threaded ones? Or a different size?
  
 thanks!


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> SO, Glenn,
> 
> for new feet, would I need M6 threaded ones? Or a different size?
> 
> thanks!


 
  
 I'll learn this myself when Glenn answers, because I _super-glued_ my spikes.


----------



## daigo

silent one said:


> I'll learn this myself when Glenn answers, because I _super-glued_ my spikes.


 
  
 Hmm, that can't be ideal for securing the spikes.  Unless you have some aerospace grade adhesive for a nice bond


----------



## rosgr63




----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> SO, Glenn,
> 
> for new feet, would I need M6 threaded ones? Or a different size?
> 
> thanks!


 
 The feet are held on by American #6 screws
 You will have to drill the holes out bigger to  use M6 screws


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thank you Glenn. I just found that a #6 screw equals a 3.5mm screw over here.
 Finding spikes that size seems a lot harder though :/


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


>


----------



## Silent One

daigo said:


> Hmm, that can't be ideal for securing the spikes.  Unless you have some aerospace grade adhesive for a nice bond


 
  





 Ah, but my objective was not permanence. I only used three fine mico-drops to prevent sliding of the spikes and smearing of resonance. They come off easily with a twist of the fore finger and thumb... by design. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This allows the continued adventure with different feets and surfaces.
  
  
 Here in this pix, the OTL is just sitting atop 18 pounds of Brass (6lbs footers x 3), no screws or adhesive:


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> So, how did it go? (previously asked in the wrong thread...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Answered in the wrong thread 
 I didn't go. I felt ill so I stayed at home and took some Vitamin G and felt much better.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Answered in the wrong thread
> I didn't go. I felt ill so I stayed at home and took some Vitamin G and felt much better.


 
  
 OH NO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hope you feel better! I'm driving to _The City_ tomorrow and was just fixin' to ask you
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if I could drop in for a hot 60 minutes Tuesday evening. I'll take your "Yay or Nay" off-the-air (PM).
  
 Take great care!


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Thank you Glenn. I just found that a #6 screw equals a 3.5mm screw over here.
> Finding spikes that size seems a lot harder though :/


 
 Remove the tubes and turn over and remove the screws and take off the bottom cover.
 Do not touch anything in case some capacitors are still charged.
 You can turn it back over and try it with no bottom plate .
 Now you can take the feet off the bottom and see what it will take to put on different feet.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Man, sure is nice to have electricity again.


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> Man, sure is nice to have electricity again.


 
  
 Was your region blasted weather wise? Glad you got juice, too!


----------



## Xcalibur255

silent one said:


> Was your region blasted weather wise? Glad you got juice, too!


 
 Yup.  Whole town is destroyed.  The roof collapsed at my workplace and a lot of other buildings fell in too, I had to wear a hardhat all day today while clearing debris and salvaging computer equipment.  Every tree in the city is split in half.  It's a disaster.


----------



## longbowbbs

Holy Cow Tyrell!! That's terrible. I hope you can get things together soon.


----------



## Xcalibur255

If it had happened later in the year it would have been no big deal, we'd just be complaining about getting 3 feet of snow.  But this early it is so wet, dense and heavy it is just pure destruction.  You'd swear we were hit by a tornado, the damage is about the same.  Parts of the town still doesn't have power and it's been 4 days now since the storm came through.  It was a record breaking storm for sure.  I haven't seen anything like this in 20 years at least.
  

  
 Here is the view at the entrance to my apartment building.  Note the vehicle on the left is a _full size_ pickup truck and the snow is almost up to the top of the hood.  It took a while to even find my car as it was completely buried to the roof.


----------



## longbowbbs

Wow! We had 58" of snow in April the early May this year. Heavy and wet too, but not all at once. It took 5 weeks.


----------



## wotts

Holy monkies! I haven't seen that much snow since I was sent to Marquette, MI on a service call in February. Are the temperatures staying cold or are you seeing some melting?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Heh, yeah it was almost 60 degrees today so now we're under flood watch too.  Was interesting to watch the steam coming off the parking lot at work.  I can't help but stop and wonder at things like that, no matter how old I get.
  
 All we can do is laugh and be thankful it isn't even worse I guess.  The call center building down the street from my work is a total loss.  Not only did the roof come down but the walls were pulled in too.  They had a dozer leveling the place to finish it off this afternoon.  The building is quite new too.  It's shocking that just getting a lot of snow can do such a thing.  The problem is that it was such wet snow, and it all came down in around a 24 hour period of time more or less.  Too much too fast, and the wind built up huge drifts on one side of all the roofs.  The trees around town will look mangled for years now, it makes me sad.  I hope it doesn't portend what the whole winter will be like, I can't take more storms like this in the same calendar year.  Having to shower and eat by flashlight really reminded me to be grateful for what we have and take for granted in our daily lives.  Things that people in some parts of the world don't get to have at all.
  
 Now I can listen to my amp again finally.  Going to try a different pair of 45s soon.  There is a lovely pair of blue globe Arcturus 145s on eBay right now, but the price is already beyond what I would be willing to pay.  I imagine for globes that will always be true, but those blue glass tubes would look amazing in Glenn's amp.


----------



## rosgr63

Thank God there was no loss of life.
  
 It does look bad, hopefully you won't get anymore like that.
  
 BTW they have different plate structures, but still look beautiful.


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> *Thank God there was no loss of life.*
> 
> *It does look bad, hopefully you won't get anymore like that.*
> 
> BTW they have different plate structures, but still look beautiful.


 
  
 I'm with rosgr63 on that one!


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> Yup.  Whole town is destroyed.  The roof collapsed at my workplace and a lot of other buildings fell in too, I had to wear a hardhat all day today while clearing debris and salvaging computer equipment.  Every tree in the city is split in half.  It's a disaster.


 
  
 I sympathize with y'all. I got caught up worrying about some measly _Santa Ana Winds_ Steely Dan once famously sung about. Honestly, no contest!


----------



## Clayton SF

Thank goodness you're safe and sound.


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's impressive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I just moved Glenn's 300B amp back downstairs to the living room and replaced the RK60 with a Mullard GZ37.
  
 DELICIOUS!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> That's impressive
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Warm and luscious--I know.


----------



## dminches

clayton sf said:


> Warm and luscious--I know.


 
  
 Sounds like we are back to talking about apple pie.


----------



## Clayton SF

dminches said:


> Sounds like we are back to talking about apple pie.


 
 LOL--snort.
 I'm running out of adjectives for tubesound!


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> dminches said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like we are back to talking about apple pie.
> ...


 
  
 You are now going to have to extol the virtues via flavor of sprinkles on top of the pie!


----------



## rosgr63

I wonder what Glenn is working on............he's been very quiet.
  
Glenn, I hope you studied the French lesson Bruno (my tube guru) sent, and don't tell me they all look the same!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rnadell

Without reading forever how do you get info on purchasing one of Glenn's amps? 
 What's available? thanks


----------



## Silent One

Private Messaging?


----------



## Ultrainferno

The Chinese have been reading this thread and the Woo one!
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/300980566985


----------



## longbowbbs

Interesting...Can they conjure up a nice cache of NOS 596's too?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

thinking of getting a Glenn amp. i'm not satisfied with WA22 and miss my OTL WA2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .....


----------



## Clayton SF

dubstep girl said:


> thinking of getting a Glenn amp. i'm not satisfied with WA22 and miss my OTL WA2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glenn will certainly help you out in building the amp of your choice. I'm sorry to hear about you missing your WA2. I thought for sure you'd fall in love with the WA22.


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> thinking of getting a Glenn amp. i'm not satisfied with WA22 and miss my OTL WA2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  





 Welcome to a thread where illustrations come to life... _and see production._


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> Welcome to a thread where illustrations come to life... _and see production._


 
  
 And food!


----------



## BlueSundays

deleted


----------



## BlueSundays

silent one said:


> OH NO
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 How the hell are you driving to Constantinople?


----------



## Ultrainferno

bluesundays said:


> How the hell are you driving to Constantinople?


 
  
 Eh?
 Left, right, straight ahead,left, left, right, and a bit more.


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *BlueSundays* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> How the hell are you driving to Constantinople?


 
  
 It was straight forward pretty much. A couple of twisty's here and there with state troopers in between, but...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Though, one of our resident 2359glenn 300B owners was not available, so I left early.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Glenn will certainly help you out in building the amp of your choice. I'm sorry to hear about you missing your WA2. I thought for sure you'd fall in love with the WA22.


 
  
 I only just noticed the smurfentaart in your signature


----------



## Dubstep Girl

clayton sf said:


> Glenn will certainly help you out in building the amp of your choice. I'm sorry to hear about you missing your WA2. I thought for sure you'd fall in love with the WA22.


 
 i know i did too.
  
 i really like how the WA22 has such a huge soundstage, and even bigger than WA6-SE, and the midrange, but the midrange emphasis is a little too much for me.
  
 and the bass isn't the best for T1.
  
 i think i'd be perfectly happy with WA22 and HD 800, i don't hear anything wrong with that combination. but the main purpose of my tube amp was the T1. would be nice to have a tube endgame for other headphones too, which is why i looked at WA22, but it didn't do better than WA2 with T1, at least for my tastes. it did bring the slightly recessed mids of the T1 out more than any other amp, but the bass needed help.
  
 anyways, the GS-X mk2 also does VERY Good with T1, i prefer it over WA22 and its just about equal to WA2, but difference cause its a SS vs tube


----------



## Dubstep Girl

silent one said:


> Welcome to a thread where illustrations come to life... _and see production._


----------



## rosgr63

bluesundays said:


> How the hell are you driving to Constantinople?


 
  
 I didn't know people still use this name............
  
 Glenn we are waiting for photos don't keep us in suspense.
  
 Have you studied the technical info I sent?
 What about the techies at work?
 Ready for the test?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looks like I'll be visiting my tube guy next week. If anyone needs something they can't seem to find, PM me and I'll check if he has them


----------



## rosgr63

What about me?
  
 Can I come please?????????
 I'll be vey good...................


----------



## Ultrainferno

Are you sure you'll be able to behave? You might want to leave the other guys some tubes too


----------



## 2359glenn

Here is the latest amp for Neogeo333 it is a BL63 driving 6336s it can also use 6AS7s and all it's variants
 and a 6SN7 or 12SN7 or 25SN7 / 1633 / 13D1 instead of the BL63 and of course the 6F8G
  
  

  
 Same amp with 6AS7s and 1633 driver
  

  
 The back panel with speaker connections for 12-16 ohm high efficiency speakers. The transformer I used is a monster
 to power these power hungry tubes. This picture also shows it using the 3DG4 rectifier instead of the GZ37.

  
 Top picture
  

  
 Front picture showing using the XLR jack with adapter


----------



## longbowbbs

Another sweet amp from Glenn!


----------



## dminches

Glenn, that looks like the swiss army knife of amps.  Kudos.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looks very cool Glenn!
  
 Oh, Stavros and me need an amp that can use these 245A tubes. they look so very cool:


----------



## magiccabbage

ver very nice


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Looks very cool Glenn!
> 
> Oh, Stavros and me need an amp that can use these 245A tubes. they look so very cool:


 

 Do you of Stavros have a spec sheet on this tube ????


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Do you of Stavros have a spec sheet on this tube ????


 
  
 Not yet but I found this:
  
 Western Electric 245A first appeared in 1929, discontinued 1979 and is similar to 24A. Filament is only rated for 2 volts @ 1.6 amps.
 Plate = 135 volts @ 4.8 ma, Screen = 45 volts, Gm 750, Power out 45 mw
  
 It is in the WE we_electron_tubes 1956 manual on page 4
 http://www.mediafire.com/download/0jh995az25jz520/we_electron_tubes+1956.pdf


----------



## 2359glenn

They might work in your 339 with special adapters that have a 2 volt transformer hooked to them.


----------



## Clayton SF

Okay, as the unofficial curator of The Unauthorized Glenn Amp Museum of San Francisco, it looks like I'm way behind on my Glenn Amp Collection. Tours by appointment only.


----------



## 2359glenn

Clayton what you need is a 300B headphone amp with Lundalh transformers
  8 watts out into 4 8 16 40 and 80 ohms Then you will have the best amp
 ever made for headphones.


----------



## Clayton SF

Can this amp have taps for speakers as well? So that I can connect my Zu Omens to it?


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn George's amp looks gorgeous, well done!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Can this amp have taps for speakers as well? So that I can connect my Zu Omens to it?


 

 Yes to the 16 ohm tap.
  
 With all Lundalh transformers no hum pickup at all total black back ground
 Frequency response 7Hz to 25KHz


----------



## daigo

wotts said:


> And food!


 
 I'm here for the food and beer related posts.  Anything audio related is just incidental.


----------



## daigo

clayton sf said:


> Okay, as the unofficial curator of The Unauthorized Glenn Amp Museum of San Francisco, it looks like I'm way behind on my Glenn Amp Collection. Tours by appointment only.


 
  
 Where do I make an appointment?!?!


----------



## rosgr63

That would definitely be a very unique amp.
  
 Ultra it may be better to use 310A/B and 328A/B than the 245A.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Yes to the 16 ohm tap.
> With all Lundalh transformers no hum pickup at all total black back ground
> Frequency response 7Hz to 25KHz


 
  
 Besides the 300B power tube, what other tubes would you build this amp around?


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Clayton what you need is a 300B headphone amp with Lundalh transformers
> 8 watts out into 4 8 16 40 and 80 ohms Then you will have the best amp
> ever made for headphones.


 
  
 Though, you may have directed that to him, interestingly, those are my needs... to name a few.


----------



## dminches

And, Glenn and I have been discussing this too.  I "made" him find a low impedance OT which he quickly did.


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Besides the 300B power tube, what other tubes would you build this amp around?


 

 I would use the C3g but I suppose I could use a 6SN7 or 12SN7


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> And, Glenn and I have been discussing this too.  I "made" him find a low impedance OT which he quickly did.


 

 David you are the person I looked these up for
 Since I built Tyrells amp with Lundalh transformers they will be the only transformer I use unless it is a OTL.
 His amp was the quietest amp I ever built or herd. With fantastic frequency response it gets no better then these.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> That would definitely be a very unique amp.
> 
> Ultra it may be better to use 310A/B and 328A/B than the 245A.


 

 I am not really for using these tubes they have very low plate current
 don't know if I would get enough drive and they have crazy filament voltages


----------



## GrindingThud

Wow, that's a cool amp. 



2359glenn said:


> Here is the latest amp for Neogeo333 it is a BL63 driving 6336s it can also use 6AS7s and all it's variants
> and a 6SN7 or 12SN7 or 25SN7 / 1633 / 13D1 instead of the BL63 and of course the 6F8G


----------



## Neogeo333

Finally got to see the amp for the first time.  Its better than I expected.  Glenn, does those 6336 get toasty?  Last time I was testing them I nearly burn my fingers.  Any way you can measure its output power?  As always another beast from Glenn Studio.


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations George, it looks so good.
  
 Not a beast but a beauty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Neogeo333

Thanks Stavros.  Its a beauty certainly.  How about a shot of its inside Glenn?  I bet that would be a beast.


----------



## rosgr63

That's right George!!!
  
 What make are your 6336's, Cetron?


----------



## Silent One

Nice "avi", rosgr63!


----------



## Neogeo333

rosgr63 said:


> That's right George!!!
> 
> What make are your 6336's, Cetron?


 

 I have different ones that started collecting from last year.  Some Centons, TS, RCA, and a pair of CSF.  Even one from Pinnacle, but its most likely a rebrand from a USA maker.  I dont believe the UK made any 6336 tubes.  I could be wrong though.


----------



## GrindingThud

This may be sacrilege, but I figured I'd ask here... I see many of the 2359G designs use tube rectifiers, as does the woo 2/22. Does having a diode bridge change the sound that much? Same Q for constant current sources vs the resistor. My current FrankenWA-3 has a current source in the bottom of the OTL output and FREDs in the bridge. I know some dislike silicon anywhere in amp (other than the glass envelope).

I was thinking of doing the same to a WA-2...but it also has tube rectifier that I was thinking of replacing with solid state....which would also get me higher B+ to work with. The other direction I was toying with was to get a second WA-3 and make mono blocks out of them, I also loved your multi-6SN7 concept....hmmm, crazy thoughts I have.


----------



## jc9394

Glenn, can C3g and 6SN7 interchangeable? Like with an adapter?


----------



## john57

You can buy a SS tube rectifier that will replace the tube and still plug in with the tube socket. It is available on Amazon around $15 or so. However you would have instant B+ voltage before the tube had a chance to warm up. This may reduce tube life without a B+ voltage delay. With some amps you may have to rebias the rest of the tubes.
  
 Quote:


grindingthud said:


> This may be sacrilege, but I figured I'd ask here... I see many of the 2359G designs use tube rectifiers, as does the woo 2/22. Does having a diode bridge change the sound that much? Same Q for constant current sources vs the resistor. My current FrankenWA-3 has a current source in the bottom of the OTL output and FREDs in the bridge. I know some dislike silicon anywhere in amp (other than the glass envelope).
> 
> I was thinking of doing the same to a WA-2...but it also has tube rectifier that I was thinking of replacing with solid state....which would also get me higher B+ to work with. The other direction I was toying with was to get a second WA-3 and make mono blocks out of them, I also loved your multi-6SN7 concept....hmmm, crazy thoughts I have.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I thought the major advantage to tube rectification was less switching noise than SS diodes, with the slow voltage ramp up being a nice side benefit?


----------



## GrindingThud

My thoughts as well, although I've never been able to actually hear a diode switch after being buried under a pile of caps and chokes. 



xcalibur255 said:


> I thought the major advantage to tube rectification was less switching noise than SS diodes, with the slow voltage ramp up being a nice side benefit?


----------



## 2359glenn

You cant here the switching it just makes the music sound harsh


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> Glenn, can C3g and 6SN7 interchangeable? Like with an adapter?


 

 No the C3g is a pentode and the 6SN7 is a dual triode. I can make the amp use 6SN7s would
 prefer the C3g though.


----------



## rosgr63

Some amps like the SPs use SS rectification and don't sound that bad.
  
 It depends on how they are implemented.
  
 But if you go the way John has suggested replacing in an amp that's designed to use a tube rectifier with a SS one you may get horrible results.


----------



## 2359glenn

Usually the amp designer chose the transformer with a specific rectifier tube with it's voltage drop in mind.
 Using SS with a .7 volt drop can increase the B+ voltage by as much as 50 or 60 volts if a 5R4 tube was used.
 This will defiantly change the operating points of the amplifier tubes and maybe go over voltage.
 This is how changing rectifiers change the sound .A rectifier tube has no sound of it's own changing it to a different
 tube changes the operating points of the amplifier tubes changing the sound.
  Normally I like to use a rectifier with the lowest voltage drop GZ37 and 3DG4 and for me TV damper diodes.
 Damper diodes have the lowest switching noise of any rectifier. I did use damper diodes in Tyrell's 45 amp.
 Now I would like to ween people off the 5U4 and switch them to damper diodes. many of them can handle
 1amp - 1000ma of current and 5000 volts.


----------



## rosgr63

Come on Glenn, can't teach an Old Dog new tricks.........
  
 Can you?


----------



## GrindingThud

That's a clever idea.... I'm going to have to get some of those. 



2359glenn said:


> Usually the amp designer chose the transformer with a specific rectifier tube with it's voltage drop in mind.
> Using SS with a .7 volt drop can increase the B+ voltage by as much as 50 or 60 volts if a 5R4 tube was used.
> This will defiantly change the operating points of the amplifier tubes and maybe go over voltage.
> This is how changing rectifiers change the sound .A rectifier tube has no sound of it's own changing it to a different
> ...


----------



## Ultrainferno

I still had no luck finding spikes that fit the #6 screws. The buzz goes softer when I lift up the amp from the table, so less contact = less buzz.
 I'm thinking of just gluing(?) spikes on it like SO did, hoping that will work, unless I do find some spikes that fit the screw thread


----------



## 2359glenn

Just remove the bottom plate remove the feet with the #6 screws and drill the holes out to what ever size you need


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> Just remove the bottom plate remove the feet with the #6 screws and drill the holes out to what ever size you need


 
 Hi Glenn i was wondering what would you consider is the fattest and warmest sounding amp you have built? Or what tube combo would you recommend for that kind of a sound? I use WA2 but would like sightly more in the lower register and more detail. Is this possible?


----------



## john57

clayton sf said:


> Can this amp have taps for speakers as well? So that I can connect my Zu Omens to it?


 
 Clayton
  I did listen to the Druid today at the RMAF. While they were good they seem to be a bit picky to the room characteristics. I was especially impressed by the Submission $4k subwoofer. The deepness and cleanest of tone for a subwoofer I heard to date.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> No the C3g is a pentode and the 6SN7 is a dual triode. I can make the amp use 6SN7s would
> prefer the C3g though.




I think I need to start looking for C3g tubes now and build up my inventory. Any recommendation?


----------



## Xcalibur255

C3g is not a "rollable" tube.  Every single one of them came from the same Siemens factory in Germany.  They show up with a few other German brand names, like Telefunken and Valvo but they are all the same tube from the same factory.  It was a specialized tube for the German telecom industry and was not in widespread use.  So all you need is a primary use pair and a single backup pair in case something bad happens.  These tubes are designed to give a _minimum_ lifespan of 10,000 hours, and they are known to last for twice that long or longer in use.  A single pair of C3g will last for many years.  An impressive tube in many ways.


----------



## jc9394

thanks, just found that out on google too. i guess i need to get few pairs before the price go up. anyone removed the metal shield?


----------



## Silent One

Siemens's rep is what initially drew me to the Yamamoto A-09S 'cause it uses the C3m to complement the 300Bs.


----------



## Xcalibur255

jc9394 said:


> thanks, just found that out on google too. i guess i need to get few pairs before the price go up. anyone removed the metal shield?


 

 I have.  There seems to be no ill effects from doing so.  It's a pretty tube by pentode standards but it doesn't put on much of a light show.  If anything happens to the ones unshielded I probably won't bother next time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

silent one said:


> Siemens's rep is what initially drew me to the Yamamoto A-09S 'cause it uses the C3m to complement the 300Bs.


 
  
 In many ways these were the culmination of tube knowledge and engineering.  The telecom office that handled atlantic ocean transmission gave tube engineers an absurdly demanding list of specifications for their dream tube to perform this function and the industry responded with the best it could produce.  It's no surprise it functions well as an audio signal tube given the low distortion and excellent electrical properties.
  
 I think Yamamoto might really have the right idea for the tube too.  They can make 1.5 watts entirely on their own and have good gain, when you really think about it there wasn't really even a need for the 45 tube in my amp (which is only good for about the same amount of power)........ it could have been single gain stage design.  But, I think you need to run the C3g or C3m in pentode mode to do it like this.  Supposedly their distortion is even lower when used as a pentode, but Glenn says triode is the way to go for tubes and I trust his experience.
  
 The 45's distortion is almost unmeasurable, so I suppose there is little lost and definitely something gained, even if mostly psychological, from having the amp based around one of the oldest direct heated triodes in existence.  I'm absolutely thrilled with the performance of my amp, it has been breaking in very nicely and sounds like it could take on any comers at this point.


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Looking back, it would have been neat for Glenn to have worked on both at the same time to reduce costs and improve efficiency like the three of us considered at one time. But of course, yours first in tandem.


----------



## Sweden

Would really appreciate if someone could tell me the signature of the amp(s).
 Lushness, bas impact, soundstage, imagine, detail and with what kind if headphone they pair nicely with.
 Any comparison to Crack, Decware, DNA Sonett, Leben etc would be very helpful.


----------



## 2359glenn

I am not a man with fancy words you will have to have one of the gugs that own one to say.
Also what amp the OTL or the 300B with output transformers.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn is a doer, not a talker.
  
 Sweden I know you have the HD800 in mind, I don't know if anybody has tried them with Glenn's amps.
  
 The T1 pair nicely with Glenn's OTLs some owners will confirm this.
  
 I am pairing my GR 6SN7/LP2/5998 OTL with my Maestro GMP400 and my GR Super 10 with my K701's and I am very pleased.


----------



## wotts

rosgr63 said:


> Glenn is a doer, not a talker.
> 
> Sweden I know you have the HD800 in mind, I don't know if anybody has tried them with Glenn's amps.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Confirmed. I love the combo. I liked the Crack alright, but Glenn's amp is just better.


----------



## 2359glenn

If you want a amp for the HD-800 it would be the OTL
 I have the HD-650 and Hd-800 and there is no amp that sounds better with these head pones
 then this OTL and the fact that it will take 6336 as well as the 6AS7 makes it able to drive many headphones.


----------



## Sweden

wotts said:


> Confirmed. I love the combo. I liked the Crack alright, but Glenn's amp is just better.


 
 In what way are they better?


----------



## 2359glenn

Picture of the under side of George's amp
  

  
 Top of amp


----------



## Sweden

rosgr63 said:


> Glenn is a doer, not a talker.
> 
> Sweden I know you have the HD800 in mind, I don't know if anybody has tried them with Glenn's amps.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes the HD800 is a very picky headphone that IMO need some tube lushness to give them a soul.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> If you want a amp for the HD-800 it would be the OTL
> I have the HD-650 and Hd-800 and there is no amp that sounds better with these head pones
> then this OTL and the fact that it will take 6336 as well as the 6AS7 makes it able to drive many headphones.


 
  
 Glenn, do you think the 6336s work better with certain headphones and the 6AS7s with other?


----------



## GrindingThud

Nice neat bundling. Are those Russian KBG/MBGO PIO as couplers? They look good in there. 
I've had my eye on some of those for between stages to replace some polypropylene I currently have.



2359glenn said:


> Picture of the under side of George's amp


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Glenn, do you think the 6336s work better with certain headphones and the 6AS7s with other?


 

 I like the 6AS7 better with higher impedance headphones like the HD-800
 but with lower impedance head phones  120 ohms and lower the 6336 sounds better.


----------



## 2359glenn

grindingthud said:


> Nice neat bundling. Are those Russian KBG/MBGO PIO as couplers? They look good in there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes they are the MBGO I only use these and Sprague vitamin Q for coupling
 The bypass capacitors are Sprague Atom For electrolytic I only use
 Sprague Atoms or BC components a little expensive but worth it.


----------



## rosgr63

Looks very nice.


----------



## 2359glenn

The BL63 tube
  
 This is a tube that people ether love or hate.
 Playing with this amp and tube all morning I like the sound the problem is the operating points
 of the 6SN7 are different then a BL63. So when somebody just puts a BL63 in a amp that is running
 a 6SN7 at low current it will sound bad.
 In this amp I run the 6SN7 a little hot so the BL63 sounds good it is a compromise though the owner
 wants to be able to run the BL63 as well as the 6sn7.
 I would like to make a amp that is made for the BL63 so it can sound it's best.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> I own a _*TC-754*_ (silver) 4-way input extender with integrated phono preamp. If he can wait 3 months then it is his. He'll have to find a 220v to 12v power convert wall wart though. So just say the word and I'll bring it with me when I move in.


 
  
 Clayton,
  my cousin finally dropped by to pick this up. he wanted me to thank you VERY VERY much. thanks!
  


2359glenn said:


> Yes they are the MBGO I only use these and Sprague vitamin Q for coupling


 
  
 My amp has the Vitamin Q's right?


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Looks very nice.


 

 Thank you
  
 Your amp is more versatile though


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Clayton,
> my cousin finally dropped by to pick this up. he wanted me to thank you VERY VERY much. thanks!
> 
> 
> My amp has the Vitamin Q's right?


 

 Yes you have the vitamin Qs in your amp.


----------



## wotts

sweden said:


> In what way are they better?


 
  
  
 I really think the Crack sounds constrained compared to the Glenn's amp. Don't get me wrong though - I liked the Crack and Valhalla, but I am selling both. If you love tube rolling, a Glenn OTL is great. If you like to tinker, the Crack is for you. The Bottlehead forums are full of crazy mods folks have done to that amp.
  
 After thinking about it, I'm going to go put my T1s on now.


----------



## Sweden

wotts said:


> I really think the Crack sounds constrained compared to the Glenn's amp. Don't get me wrong though - I liked the Crack and Valhalla, but I am selling both. If you love tube rolling, a Glenn OTL is great. If you like to tinker, the Crack is for you. The Bottlehead forums are full of crazy mods folks have done to that amp.
> 
> After thinking about it, I'm going to go put my T1s on now.


 
  
 Have you tried the speedball upgrade and upgraded tubes for the Crack?
 Constrained in the soundstage?


----------



## wotts

I do have the speedball in my amp. As for tubes, I really only chanded the driver out. I didn't have any extra rectifiers at the time. Currently, it's in a closet.
  
 I guess you could say the sound stage was smaller, but it's more like the music was pushed. Glenn's amp has flow. Does that make sense? I could be just talking out my ass here too.


----------



## dminches

BTW, if anyone is interested in an NOS pair of Centron 6336s let me know via PM.  I bought a quad but only need a pair.


----------



## wotts

That reminds me, I have some of the big Russian rectifiers (5U8C) discussed here in the past. Glenn made me an adapter for the OTL. It's very 596 like, but more power less detail? I'd have to revisit the tube I suppose. If anyone wants one, shoot me a PM.


----------



## 2359glenn

Right now I am driving my speakers with Georges OTL headphone amp with 6336 output tubes.
 it would be better if  they were 16ohms but not bad though.
 Tremendous frequency response but limited power.


----------



## dminches

I am listening to my Glenn OTL with my T1s.  The tube compliment is a pair of GEC CV2523s, 1 GZ37 and a Sylvania 6SN7 WGT.  This is a perfect combination.


----------



## wotts

I have yet to put a 6SN7 in my OTL. I should try some. I have a shoebox full. h34r:


----------



## dminches

What are you using instead?


----------



## wotts

6F8G mostly. I have a 1633 in right now.


----------



## Sweden

dminches said:


> I am listening to my Glenn OTL with my T1s.  The tube compliment is a pair of GEC CV2523s, 1 GZ37 and a Sylvania 6SN7 WGT.  This is a perfect combination.


 

 How do the amp with those tubes compare to the Leben?


----------



## dminches

They are completely different and they excel with different headphones


----------



## Sweden

dminches said:


> They are completely different and they excel with different headphones


 
  
 Don't be so cryptic in this thread.
 I now how the Leben sounds. The opposite of a Leben would be a bright, analytical dry sounding amp, but I'm guessing it doesn't sound like that.
 More neutral and clear like a DNA Sonett?


----------



## dminches

I wasn't being cryptic. I can't compare the 2 since I am also using different headphones. The T1s are dynamic and a tad bright while the LCD-3s are much more balanced. But that difference says more about the headphones than the amp.


----------



## rosgr63

Cryptic here?
  
 Glenn has been revealing so many details that many designers/makers would never mention in a public forum.


----------



## Silent One

+1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Glenn truly seems interested in advancing the enjoyment of audio among members. Smoke & Mirrors? Check 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




the local hardware store!


----------



## Sweden

rosgr63 said:


> Cryptic here?
> 
> Glenn has been revealing so many details that many designers/makers would never mention in a public forum.


 

 Sure he has and that's a good thing, but I don't know how many pages I've read by now with no one mentioning the basic sound of the amps, other than they sound very nice.
 It's kind of frustrating by this point to be honest.
 At least one detailed comparison with another amp would be helpful.


----------



## rosgr63

It's not a good thing, when some take advantage of your ideas to make a profit.
  
 As for the sound, my GR Super 10 can be as musical as my RPO10B MKII and as fast and detailed as my BA.
  
 I just enjoy music and don't write reviews.


----------



## Ultrainferno

wotts said:


> I do have the speedball in my amp. As for tubes, I really only chanded the driver out. I didn't have any extra rectifiers at the time. Currently, it's in a closet.


 
   
A rectifier tube in the Crack? That would be a first.


----------



## longbowbbs

sweden said:


> rosgr63 said:
> 
> 
> > Cryptic here?
> ...


 
 I thought this thread was about cookies and pie??!


----------



## Sweden

longbowbbs said:


> I thought this thread was about cookies and pie??!


 
 There are lot's of impressions how different tubes sounding, but no real comparison to other amps, correct me if I'm wrong.
 I know tubes can make a huge difference, but still you can say something about the basic design and signature.
 Even now when I asked for someone to step up to the plate did I get any real answer. Opposite of a Leben. Not sure how I should interpret that.


----------



## dminches

Maybe you should interpret that that people don't really have a good answer for you.  Your tone seems to indicate that you think we are hiding something from you.
  
 The Leben is a lush, warm amp, while being incredibly detailed.  Glenn's amp are a bit more neutral and dynamic.
  
 Having said that, if you ask 10 people to describe something you will probably get 10 different answers, all without any frame of reference.


----------



## 2359glenn

What amp do you want it to sound like?
 I don't know that it sounds like any other amp.
 The only thing I can say is that everybody that bought it loved it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I only have the 300B amp so I can only describe that sound, and I should compare it to other 300B amps, which I don't have.
 I have 3 OTLs of which the Crack but I don't have the Glenn OTL. The only one who comes close to having your amp selection is Clayton, but as far as I know he's more of an "enjoyer" then a talker, but maybe if you ask him nicely he'll help you out.
  
 Feel free to buy me a Glenn OTL and I'll give you a 2000 word review/comparison with my other OTL gear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'd just pm one of the guys with an OTL here to ask if they can describe the sound of their unit. DMinches just gave you a short impression already. Good luck!


----------



## Sweden

dminches said:


> Maybe you should interpret that that people don't really have a good answer for you.  Your tone seems to indicate that you think we are hiding something from you.
> 
> The Leben is a lush, warm amp, while being incredibly detailed.  Glenn's amp are a bit more neutral and dynamic.
> 
> Having said that, if you ask 10 people to describe something you will probably get 10 different answers, all without any frame of reference.


 
  
 I know it can be hard describing sound, especially with amps that don't have much of a signature beyond the tubes you put in.
 It definitively was not my intention to direct any suspicion of anyone covering up anything about the amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sometimes you seem you have to push the action a bit to get a straight answer.
 Maybe me asking the question made someone who didn't know what to really think, think extra hard and come up with his best impression.


----------



## Sweden

ultrainferno said:


> I only have the 300B amp so I can only describe that sound, and I should compare it to other 300B amps, which I don't have.
> I have 3 OTLs of which the Crack but I don't have the Glenn OTL. The only one who comes close to having your amp selection is Clayton, but as far as I know he's more of an "enjoyer" then a talker, but maybe if you ask him nicely he'll help you out.
> 
> Feel free to buy me a Glenn OTL and I'll give you a 2000 word review/comparison with my other OTL gear
> ...


 

 That is teamwork. Nice going.


----------



## Sweden

2359glenn said:


> What amp do you want it to sound like?
> I don't know that it sounds like any other amp.
> The only thing I can say is that everybody that bought it loved it.


 
  
 Personally I like it some sound a bit like a Leben (typical tube lushness) with perhaps larger and more coherent soundstage and holographic imaging.
 Natural flowing tonality, great bass impact, the sense of being at the venue. Sense of air moving in recordings. Good depth, big sound, good dynamics. Something that peals away the clinical edge of a HD800 but maintains all it's technical advantages.
  
 Leben is a bit too pricey and it is better designed for lower impedance headphones even though I like it a lot with the HD800.


----------



## Clayton SF

sweden said:


> Personally I like it some sound a bit like a Leben (typical tube lushness) with perhaps larger and more coherent soundstage and holographic imaging.
> Natural flowing tonality, great bass impact, the sense of being at the venue. Sense of air moving in recordings. Good depth, big sound, good dynamics. Something that peals away the clinical edge of a HD800 but maintains all it's technical advantages.
> 
> Leben is a bit too pricey and it is better designed for lower impedance headphones even though I like it a lot with the HD800.


 
  
 When someone said to me that they didn't like the sound of a 300B amp I couldn't comprehend how anyone could tell the sound signature of a 300B tube any more than I can tell sonically the differences between minis versus octals like the 6992 verusus the 6SN7.
  
 The Leben (300 I would assume) is every bit as you describe. The Leben CS600, the one I now own, compared to the CS300XS, the model I used to own, sounds like the 300 x .5. To me the 600 does not sound twice the sound 300 signature as you describe. In fact when I switch from Glenn's 300B mono blocks to the Leben (I amp roll more than tube roll and have a lack of describing sound, unlike Ultra- who has a knack for it--had to do it: Lack KNack) the 600 is too colored. But when my ears settle in on it, then it is a wonderful experience. When I switch back to the 300B mono blocks, it sounds flat, but when the settle in, it is cleaner and more focused. The lows are there and the highs too--and yes the mids are wonderful. I'd say that if photographs were amps, the Leben would be HDR and Glenn's mb would be the original photograph. IMO. And mind you, that is when I switch from the Leben to the Glenn Amp.
  
 When all is said and done, I love them both (otherwise I would own just one amp) and I am captured by the sound I am enveloped in at the moment. Like switching from Baroque to Bluegrass: it's the artists' artistry that moves me once I sink into that couch of mine.


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> I thought this thread was about cookies and pie??!


 
  
 Sorry Eric, I'll get back on track soon.............
 I've been very defensive here, I am only human.
  
  


dminches said:


> Maybe you should interpret that that people don't really have a good answer for you.  Your tone seems to indicate that you think we are hiding something from you.
> 
> The Leben is a lush, warm amp, while being incredibly detailed.  Glenn's amp are a bit more neutral and dynamic.
> 
> Having said that, if you ask 10 people to describe something you will probably get 10 different answers, all without any frame of reference.


 
  
  
 Absolutely right David.
 One must be very careful and specific as the tubes used can change an amp's character.
 In my case I get a very different sound when I use 6BL7's and then change to 6336.
 And I haven't tried a quad of my Osram 6AS7G black base or an ECC32 driver or my 33S30's yet.
  


clayton sf said:


> When someone said to me that they didn't like the sound of a 300B amp I couldn't comprehend how anyone could tell the sound signature of a 300B tube any more than I can tell sonically the differences between minis versus octals like the 6992 verusus the 6SN7.
> 
> The Leben (300 I would assume) is every bit as you describe. The Leben CS600, the one I now own, compared to the CS300XS, the model I used to own, sounds like the 300 x .5. To me the 600 does not sound twice the sound 300 signature as you describe. In fact when I switch from Glenn's 300B mono blocks to the Leben (I amp roll more than tube roll and have a lack of describing sound, unlike Ultra- who has a knack for it--had to do it: Lack KNack) the 600 is too colored. But when my ears settle in on it, then it is a wonderful experience. When I switch back to the 300B mono blocks, it sounds flat, but when the settle in, it is cleaner and more focused. The lows are there and the highs too--and yes the mids are wonderful. I'd say that if photographs were amps, the Leben would be HDR and Glenn's mb would be the original photograph. IMO. And mind you, that is when I switch from the Leben to the Glenn Amp.
> 
> When all is said and done, I love them both (otherwise I would own just one amp) and I am captured by the sound I am enveloped in at the moment. Like switching from Baroque to Bluegrass: it's the artists' artistry that moves me once I sink into that couch of mine.


 
  
  
 Thanks for the great account Clayton.
 Enjoy your new iMac!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> .When all is said and done, I love them both (otherwise I would own just one amp)


 
  
 We're working on that C


----------



## rosgr63

Her's what we had yesterday for desert.
  
 I had two after lunch, one before I went to bed and two at 5am.
 Never slept but it was well worth it!
  
 It's called *THE SIN!!!!!!!*


----------



## Ultrainferno

What is it exactly Stavros? seems so moist?
 I'll have 1/4 pie please


----------



## Clayton SF

WANT! NOW!
 Please.


----------



## rosgr63

It's the hot syrup!!!!!!!!
  
 The name is galaktobureko, here's Wikipedia's definition
  
*Galaktobureko* (Greek: γαλακτομπούρεκο) is a Greek dessert of semolina-based custard in phyllo. It may be made in a pan, with phyllo layered on top and underneath, or rolled into individual servings (often approximately 10 cm long). It is served or coated with a clear, sweet syrup. The custard may be flavored with lemon, orange or rose.


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  






 I really like this account... thanks, Clayton SF!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> It's the hot syrup!!!!!!!!
> 
> The name is galaktobureko, here's Wikipedia's definition
> 
> *Galaktobureko* (Greek: γαλακτομπούρεκο) is a Greek dessert of semolina-based custard in phyllo. It may be made in a pan, with phyllo layered on top and underneath, or rolled into individual servings (often approximately 10 cm long). It is served or coated with a clear, sweet syrup. The custard may be flavored with lemon, orange or rose.


 

 Freeze some till I get there in November


----------



## Silent One

60-Day Forecast For Southern California-
  
 Location: Los Angeles
 Condition: Sunny & mild
 High/Low Temp: 79/52 Degrees
 Wind speed/Dir: 8 mph/West
 Humidity: 39%
 UV Index: Moderate
 Percipitation probability: 0%
  
  
 I'm providing the aforementioned data so that the 2359glenn|studio could best know how to pack/ship my forthcoming amp:
  
 300B monoblocks with 3-pin XLR Headphone Outputs




  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Disclaimer: I still need to run all this by with the designer first.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Her's what we had yesterday for desert.
> 
> I had two after lunch, one before I went to bed and two at 5am.
> Never slept but it was well worth it!
> ...


 
 So much for cookies!


----------



## wotts

ultrainferno said:


> A rectifier tube in the Crack? That would be a first.




Power tube, yeah, yeah, yeah.


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> 60-Day Forecast For Southern California-
> 
> Location: Los Angeles
> Condition: Sunny & mild
> ...


 

 It has been raining here for the last 8 days supposed to clear up on Wednesday and back to rain on Thursday
  
 So when do you want me to build these amps SO


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Freeze some till I get there in November


 
  
  
 Hot from the makers is best for me.
 Not bad kept in the fridge either!
  


silent one said:


> 60-Day Forecast For Southern California-
> 
> Location: Los Angeles
> Condition: Sunny & mild
> ...


 
  
 That's very exciting SO!!!!!!!!!!
  


longbowbbs said:


> So much for cookies!


 
  
 Like tube rolling isn't it?
  
 Eric bad news, I was banned tonight and wasn't allowed any...............
  
 I got the blues and listening to Ayo's Ticket to the World to drawn my sorrow.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Aw....Here you go....


----------



## Ultrainferno

Our 300B club is growing!!


----------



## rosgr63

Eric you just touched my heart!
  
 Now I need that great photo of the nice wurst to feel right again.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> It has been raining here for the last 8 days supposed to clear up on Wednesday and back to rain on Thursday
> 
> So when do you want me to build these amps SO


 
  
 Up ALL nite. Need a POWER nap. Will send a PM in a couple of hours... thanks sir!


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *longbowbbs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Aw....Here you go....


 
  
 I miss Donna! Friday, I enjoyed her singing "Dinner With Gershwin."


----------



## rosgr63

SO with all this talk about amps, food, music, tubes and so on no wonder Sweden thinks we are hiding something!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Up ALL nite. Need a POWER nap. Will send a PM in a couple of hours... thanks sir!


 
  
 Mister SO have another amp build on queue???  I need to visit SO soon...


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Mister SO have another amp build on queue???  I need to visit SO soon...


 
  
 What about the Shindo Labs? Lest you forget them, those poor amps are garnering cobwebs for the winter!


----------



## rosgr63

The battle of the titans :
  
 β22/σ22 - GR300B


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> What about the Shindo Labs? Lest you forget them, those poor amps are garnering cobwebs for the winter!


 
 That is my reason to visit, additional Glenn build amp is a bonus...


----------



## dminches

Glenn, what's your perspective on whether power cords make an audible difference.


----------



## Sweden

rosgr63 said:


> SO with all this talk about amps, food, music, tubes and so on no wonder Sweden thinks we are hiding something!


 
  
 A few cake picture and schiit gets crazy.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> That is my reason to visit, additional Glenn build amp is a bonus...


 

 You have me build C3g> 300B with Lundahl transformers and you won't find a better sounding amp any ware


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> You have me build C3g> 300B with Lundahl transformers and you won't find a better sounding amp any ware


 
 definitely will be in your queue early next year, just need to recover some camera related spending...


----------



## rosgr63

dminches said:


> Glenn, what's your perspective on whether power cords make an audible difference.


 
  
 I have some expensive cords but to me as long as a cord has a good insulation that's all that maters.
 How could a 1m of cable out of the whole wiring in a house improve the sound?
  
 A properly designed Power Supply in a unit should not be affected by the power cord.
  
 Lots of people have a different opinion, and that's fine.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> You have me build C3g> 300B with Lundahl transformers and you won't find a better sounding amp any ware


 

 I'm signed up for a pair.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Anytime you can squeeze me into the build schedule.  I'm giving up on the O'netics idea, we've proven how good the Lundahls sound with my 45 amp so might as well run with what is proven right?
  
 I think Stavros and I are in some sort of competition to see who can own the most Glenn Gear.  A contest with only winners I might add.


----------



## 2359glenn

Clayton has you both beat and is going to order another


----------



## Xcalibur255

The more the merrier.    The monos will be the end for me though, I will have every desire fulfilled at that point.  I wouldn't have the space for more even if I wanted to at that point anyway.


----------



## 2359glenn

sweden said:


> A few cake picture and schiit gets crazy.


 
  
 You got to lighten up this Forum is about having fun food and amps.
 Most of us that hang here are a little nuts but we have fun.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Clayton has you both beat and is going to order another




Hum, visiting SF or LA?


----------



## longbowbbs

One for Stavros...My son Steve like's Hot Dogs more than Bratwurst....


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Glenn, what's your perspective on whether power cords make an audible difference.


 

 I feel the same way Stavros feels I don't think power cords make a bit of difference.
 3' of cable plugged into a 100' of cheep RX cable in your walls how is it going to make
 a difference.  And how about the transformer on the power pole wound in aluminum
 + the aluminum feeder to the house. 
 The money spent on expensive power cords could be spent on better things that do
 improve the sound.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


longbowbbs said:


> Spoiler: Chilly Dogs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Chilly Dogs! It must be getting pretty chilly in your neck of the woods now.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> I'm signed up for a pair.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I will put you on a list for next year
 Stavros will have one sooner I an going to build him a experimental amp.
 Except for the power supply no parts other then the volume control and output coupling caps just tubes
 in the amp.
 The only problem is he said I have to charge him for it and you know that is not going to happen.
 That will be a argument I am sure.


----------



## jc9394

xcalibur255 said:


> I'm signed up for a pair.  :wink_face:   Anytime you can squeeze me into the build schedule.  I'm giving up on the O'netics idea, we've proven how good the Lundahls sound with my 45 amp so might as well run with what is proven right?
> 
> I think Stavros and I are in some sort of competition to see who can own the most Glenn Gear.  A contest with only winners I might add.




Nice, this way we can compare notes.


----------



## Errymoose

silent one said:


> I'm providing the aforementioned data so that the 2359glenn|studio could best know how to pack/ship my forthcoming amp:
> 300B monoblocks with 3-pin XLR Headphone Outputs


 
 This sounds like the best idea for an amp yet... O_o


----------



## dminches

Beyerdynamic T1s + Glenn OTL + New Garcia Northwest Tour release = Pure bliss


----------



## daigo

longbowbbs said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 He will learn with time that bratwurst is much tastier than mystery tube meat hot dogs...


----------



## longbowbbs

daigo said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
 I am working on him...Perhaps I can tempt him with some Italian sausages?


----------



## daigo

longbowbbs said:


> I am working on him...Perhaps I can tempt him with some Italian sausages?


 
 There are good hot dogs so not all is lost.  Especially living in Wisconsin, you have great sausage variety due to the strong German and Polish communities.  Maybe a kielbasa?  That looks close enough to a hot dog that he might give it a try.


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> One for Stavros...My son Steve like's Hot Dogs more than Bratwurst....


 
  
 Good evening Eric, thanks for the photo!
 Your photo and Glenn's *Good Morning* email have made *my* day.
 I was at the fridge at 5:15am and stole a huge block of galaktoboureko.
 Even Pablo didn't wake up.........
 It's going to be a nice day today, I can feel it
  
  


sweden said:


> A few cake picture and schiit gets crazy.


 
  
  
 Sweden just join the fun, some of us here are little crazy, I am completely gone.
 Not of all of us have your great reviewing skills.
  
  
  


2359glenn said:


> I will put you on a list for next year
> Stavros will have one sooner I an going to build him a experimental amp.
> Except for the power supply no parts other then the volume control and output coupling caps just tubes
> in the amp.
> ...


 
  
  
 Glenn I will never talk to you again.
 I'll only talk to L, you are so bad I don't know what to do.
  
  


longbowbbs said:


> I am working on him...Perhaps I can tempt him with some Italian sausages?


 
  
  
 Try him with something softer like black pudding!!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn can build amps that are equally powerful and beautiful.
 Stavros is sweet and funny and a bit crazy 
 I can only attempt to bake _*Galaktobourekothis*_ which is sweet and beautiful
 and made with enough sugar to make me crazy.
 Maybe I'll attempt this craziness this weekend.
  
 Thank you Glenn and Stavros for strengthening and sweetening up the day.
  στην υγειά σας


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton you are a dear friend.
  
 When you make the galaktoboureko don't use any flavours, straight is the best.
 We have to visit the shop that makes them and I guarantee none of us will want to leave.
 I've been going there since the 60's and when the galaktoboureko comes out of the oven the smell is what heaven would smell like.
  
 I was crazy to start with but the escalating tube addiction has made me even worst.
  
 Tyrell the Boys In Blue arrived...............


----------



## Xcalibur255

Well if that picture is the jail they send you to then maybe we should all plead guilty together.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have the OTL fired up tonight.  She's like a trusty old racehorse, maybe not leading the race anymore but still on the lead lap and full of stamina.


----------



## rosgr63

I always get back to my 6SN7/LP2/5998 from time to time and enjoy it. 
  
 Tyrell you are very naughty, think again the Boys in Blue???????


----------



## Silent One

sweden said:


> I know it can be hard describing sound, especially with amps that don't have much of a signature beyond the tubes you put in.
> It definitively was not my intention to direct any suspicion of anyone covering up anything about the amp.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I believe a few pages back you mentioned not seeing any impressions readily available. And you were not in the mood to sift through a breezy 350 pages to find any. I find this a bit odd. In the first handful of pages you have as many members discussing a wide variety of things concerning the OTL amps, sound among them. Repeatedly. Skimming a little further, more impressions ranging from the Thread Starter's "Foot finding mission & resonance control" to the internationally renowned "X-mod" and how it came to be and the presentation it returned.
  
 This is a small and intimate thread that obviously lacks "Stickies" and "CliffNotes." Even more importantly than that, if a visitor lacks the initiative in the first place, then...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Please know, this post is to inspire not condemn. Additionally, the amps we receive from the studio are in constant evolution, _with the same gen sometimes._ For example, say you me and three others here claim 5 upcoming builds of his next design. As he is custom building these amps one-by-one, he'll evaluate the work done and determines if the amp remaining amps could benefit from minor improvements. Or perhaps, one of us will weigh-in and ask for something to be implemented.
  
 So, not only are we all uniquely different - sensitivities; preferences; gears - we often don't even have identical amps of the same generation. But we always share our thoughts about our respective builds. Hope these comments help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




and look forward to seeing you around.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nicely put SO, Thank You.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks kindly, sir. It is also very helpful that Glenn is once informative and laid back. Honestly, any of you remember early on in the thread when I posted internal pix of my amp under a Blacklight? Many designers/manufacturers would have been hopping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





mad!
  
 The next knock on the door came from neither Glenn or his lawyer. Rather, some solicitor from a solar company...


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> Well if that picture is the jail they send you to then maybe we should all plead guilty together.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  




  
 And to think, I just revisited the "X-mod" a few minutes back!


----------



## rosgr63

SO, I do remember.
  
 Glenn has been too revealing at times and some have taken advantage of that.
  
 Then again that's Glenn a genius that has nothing to hide and loves building great amps.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > You have me build C3g> 300B with Lundahl transformers and you won't find a better sounding amp any ware
> ...


 
  
 Seemingly, with Halloween just around the bend, something is just not right. And I can't put a finger on it either. First, I thought to myself "What a coincidence!" But as soon as I returned home tonight and logged-in to Head-Fi, a chill fell over the room. No sooner than I read your reply about getting in the queue, the chill was immediate.
  
 This is the second time in two seasons where I attempted to join the queue for a custom build. And the designer is _Jet-Setting _to Greece.


----------



## Ultrainferno

silent one said:


> This is the second time in two seasons where I attempted to join the queue for a custom build. And the designer is _Jet-Setting _to Greece.


 
  
 Tough luck SO! It will be my birthday soon and I haven't decided yet what to get myself, I guess it's too late for another Glenn amp too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But like I told Clayton yesterday, a friend of mine just bought 2 second hand Leben 300s, so maybe something will happen there...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Mister SO have another amp build on queue???  I need to visit SO soon...


 
  
  


clayton sf said:


> What about the Shindo Labs? Lest you forget them, those poor amps are garnering cobwebs for the winter!


 
  
 Originally, I had decided to pursue some 300B luv after Glenn's return this summer. And despite being filled with lust, not a moment sooner. I decided early on that I would not submit any commission until the '45amp' shipped! This was a very important development for me - waiting with Xcalibur255 in solidarity was an honor. He made the transition from my _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_ to the 2359glenn OTL amp seamless.
  
 The past couple of months have been some trying times. Ken Shindo had to source the materials to make my Silver ICs and his vendor has held him up. Reasons unknown. It's a bit painful (understatement) 'cause I paid for everything up front (1st week of July). I could have always done other things with that money and then paid once all was in place. So, I'm suffering _Opportunity Costs. _




  
 My storied _overnight_ listening sessions shall rise like the dead by Halloween!


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Tough luck SO! It will be my birthday soon and I haven't decided yet what to get myself, I guess it's too late for another Glenn amp too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well... you could get 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




beside yourself, providing you avoid a lock-out like rosgr63 this summer.


----------



## Clayton SF

Okay. Not good. First I had to shell out valuable amp spending money to replace a dead computer. That's a little okay because I now have an up-to-date 21.5-inch iMac (the intro model). Now I have sprained my left foot once again and can barely walk. After ER charged me $1,961 ($800 for which I was responsible) for an examination, piece of mind, and a shoe cast, which, thank goodness I kept, I am once again practically immobile.
  
 My left foot is now back in its shoe cast again.

  
 Ultra- What would you like for your birthday?
  
 March 13, 2013


----------



## longbowbbs

Clayton, that is awful! I think I would spend the day with my foot up enjoying my favorite amp and headphones....I hope you will be back to full speed soon!


----------



## rnadell

If you were having an otl amp built what options would you choose? By the way that is an amp built by Glenn. thanks


----------



## Ultrainferno

rnadell said:


> If you were having an otl amp built what options would you choose? By the way that is an amp built by Glenn. thanks


 
  
 Freshly baked cookies by L.
  
 I don't think there is a list of possible options, it's more like you tell the designer (Glenn) what you would like, or wouldn't. right guys?


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Ultra- What would you like for your birthday?
> 
> March 13, 2013


 
  
 Get well soon C! Music (and cookies) will make healing easier.
  
 For my birthday I would like my gf to say yes when I finally propose to her 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 My friends and family keep asking me the same thing, but I wouldn't know. I'm happy as it is (although if someone surprised me with a Leben 300CX, they'd get an extra drink 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Get well soon C! Music (and cookies) will make healing easier.
> For my birthday I would like my gf to say yes when I finally propose to her
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I know she'd say yes. I could just tell by the way she looks at you--and doesn't look at you. Maybe you could ask her on your birthday. She's bound to get you something or make you something. When she hands you your birthday gift, hand her a ring and then ask her. Then I'll be right over in person to congratulate the both of you.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Okay. Not good.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
  





 Sorry to hear about your new reality and wish you a _speedy_ recovery.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Sorry to hear about the foot Clayton.  I know what those troubles are like.  It's doubling frustrating when it is the same injury in the same place twice, feels like progress isn't being made.  Hopefully things will be back in order soon.


----------



## rosgr63

Here are the Boys in Blue:


----------



## Ultrainferno

Those look nice!!
  
 I just laughed when I saw this ad on Headfi
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/686051/heir-audio-4-ai-like-new-condition-great-way-to-meet-chicks


----------



## Silent One

WOWZA!


----------



## rosgr63

I don't really know what Tyrell was thinking................
  
 I suppose Sweden was right I have been cryptic!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Perhaps. Man, I'm listening to Ronnie Laws and just taking in the Blue tubes...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Well the predominant thing is always about being naughty so I figured the police were coming for us.  Boys in blue.  Perhaps law enforcement in Greece doesn't wear blue like they do here?
  
 Those Arcturus globes are lovely looking either way. 
  
 Even after burn-in I feel the Sylvania 45 ST I'm running right now are too lit up in the treble and upper mids so I'm hoping the Tung Sols work out better.  The detail is mind blowing but they sound a bit etched at higher volumes, it can get to be too much.  Could also be a stage of burn-in on the caps too, who knows.  The RCAs sound more like what I was expecting the 45 to sound like, the first time I've actually liked the sound of an RCA tube I think.


----------



## rosgr63

I know I am always bad and was teasing you.
  
 So far I take it your favourites are the RCA?
  
 BTW when I got the 145s the ebay Gods were asleep and I got very lucky.


----------



## daigo

rosgr63 said:


> Here are the Boys in Blue:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Would love to see these tubes powered on.  Curious if they have any type of glow to them.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Don't make me go find my pic of the party police again, you know what happens if you you activate the boys in blue


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Don't make me go find my pic of the party police again, you know what happens if you you activate the boys in blue


 
  
 Arcturus Blue!


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> Well the predominant thing is always about being naughty so I figured the police were coming for us.  Boys in blue.  Perhaps law enforcement in Greece doesn't wear blue like they do here?
> 
> Those Arcturus globes are lovely looking either way.
> 
> Even after burn-in I feel the Sylvania 45 ST I'm running right now are too lit up in the treble and upper mids so I'm hoping the Tung Sols work out better.  The detail is mind blowing but they sound a bit etched at higher volumes, it can get to be too much.  Could also be a stage of burn-in on the caps too, who knows.  The RCAs sound more like what I was expecting the 45 to sound like, the first time I've actually liked the sound of an RCA tube I think.


 
  
 While I may lack any hard evidence, experience tells me those caps need to have a run of its course. I remember returning my DAC-1 to Wyred4Sound to get Low ESR _"Super Caps"_ installed. Good thing I'm not the type to jump up and accuse folks without thought. Otherwise, my reaction would have been_ "What the hell did you guys do
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to my amp?!"_
  
 I actually emailed Support thinking something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




had terribly gone wrong. Some 500 hours later and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 WOWZA!


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> Don't make me go find my pic of the party police again, you know what happens if you you activate the boys in blue


 
  
 Go on Ultra, please show us the Boarding Party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 We have to go to extra games for the Mundial, we see what happens on Monday.
  
 daigo you can only see the hot elements from the top.


----------



## Xcalibur255

rosgr63 said:


> I know I am always bad and was teasing you.
> 
> So far I take it your favourites are the RCA?
> 
> BTW when I got the 145s the ebay Gods were asleep and I got very lucky.


 

 They can't be the pair I was watching last week, those got bid up pretty high.  I'm not sure which is the right way to go, old globes or new EML.  If the EML are a more "modern" sound with even more lit up top end then they wouldn't be a good fit in this amp, but I'm not looking for a "vintage" sound either.  Resolution wise the EML are supposed to be the best, but the tone has to be right too in order for it to be enjoyable.
  
 So far I have only tried the Emperor (RCA) and the Hytron (Sylvania).  I do prefer the RCA.  They are more harmonically rich in the midrange but they don't sound "thick" or overly lush like most RCA tubes do.  Just gobs and gobs of midrange tone and texture with good extension.  The Sylvanias are more extended and faster all around, more detailed too in some ways, but it is almost to the point of being hyper-detailed and is fatiguing over time.  Maybe some of this is still break-in related, I don't know.  The Duelunds have definitely opened up now, but they may not have truly settled yet either.
  
 I would prefer not to have to buy both EML and globes in order to actually find out which I would like more.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Just too much money in it all.  There is also the inherent risk of buying 80 year old tubes.  I never did get to listen to my National Unions because one went gassy while Glenn was working on the amp.  Would hate to spend $300+ on globes and see the same thing happen.  At least with new production if they are bad right away you can just ask for a replacement.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hi Tyrell

Buy a Sylvania #46 to match the one I gave you they are cheep tubes


----------



## Xcalibur255

I actually scored a mint pair of Tung Sol 46s very recently.  I need to clean them up and give them a try.  It's strange how the plate current spec is so much lower on them but they are rated for the same plate dissipation as the 45.


----------



## rosgr63

Tyrell, no it wasn't the ones you were watching, the seller would not ship here so I was just watching.
 They had different plate types one early and one late production.
 Mine are both early production.
  
 You are right about the risk with vintage tubes.
 A lot of risk buying old tubes.
  
 I would dare say a strong vintage tube will outlast a modern production one.


----------



## 2359glenn

I will post this supplier here  too.He has good prices on some old tubes and he is a good guy been in business forever.
 http://www.leedsradio.com/
 Tyrell you can try him for some #45s just send a E-Mail


----------



## Xcalibur255

Turns out that guy has a pretty cool blog.  He definitely doesn't pull any punches with his opinions though.


----------



## rosgr63

Never heard from Clayton and Eric, I wonder why........................
  
 Probably too busy listening to music.


----------



## Silent One

You mean, audio gear having a functional purpose?


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> Turns out that guy has a pretty cool blog.  *He definitely doesn't pull any punches with his opinions though*.


 
  
 That he's in Brooklyn should've tipped you off!


----------



## rosgr63

silent one said:


> You mean, audio gear having a functional purpose?


 
  
 I like it.............


----------



## 2359glenn

He might be opinionated but he will give good deals on tubes.   Brooklyn ? Ware do you think I am from.
 You have to remember that I was selling the 596 for $40 and the adapter for $35 until I went into the hospital
 and got ripped off.  Then we had group buys from someone in China and some company bought all the 596
 tubes in the USA and was selling them at a ridicules price.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> He might be opinionated but he will give good deals on tubes.   Brooklyn ? Ware do you think I am from.
> You have to remember that I was selling the 596 for $40 and the adapter for $35 until I went into the hospital
> and got ripped off.  Then we had group buys from someone in China and some company bought all the 596
> tubes in the USA and was selling them at a ridicules price.


 
  
 I remember when you first asked me to audition the 596 with adapter at no cost. When was that? You originated the practice of adapting the 596 for 5U4G use. Genius!


----------



## dminches

I just bought a pair of RK60s.  Now I need an adapter.  Anyone know anyone who makes them?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Next time I change 45s I'm going to switch the rectifiers to 6BY5GA at the same time.  The high pitch whining noise the current ones make really bothers my ears.  I am hoping that not all tubes of this type do this, but since they are TV tubes I fear that might be the reality.


----------



## rosgr63

Which are TV tubes?


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> He might be opinionated but he will give good deals on tubes.   Brooklyn ? Ware do you think I am from.
> You have to remember that I was selling the 596 for $40 and the adapter for $35 until I went into the hospital
> and got ripped off.  Then we had group buys from someone in China and some company bought all the 596
> tubes in the USA and was selling them at a ridicules price.


 
  





 You call it like you see it, too! I lived in Brownsville for a time...
  
 Speaking of _"The Mighty 596,"_ (not sure where that moniker came from 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), I was dealing with a military surplus broker in Florida (likely a transplanted New Yorker), and she was absolutely clueless on what the tube was and who else but contractors would even need the high altitude glass.
  
 We exchanged a handful of phone calls and emails over a week's time - she had to check with her sources. She eventually located a couple of thousand. Asked how many I needed and replied "6." What I wanted to pay for each, "$36" I returned. After getting my company info and drawing up an order, she proposed something like (can't remember too well right now...) to get my price I had to buy a 1,000 count. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I balked! Then balked again at a 100ct.
  
 She had to take care of other deals but wanted to resume negotiations the next day. Boy, did she ever! Said she felt something very odd about my *out-of-the-blue* inquiry for this tube. Consulted with her sources and they couldn't determine anything about my interest either.
  
 So she looked up the tube on the internet and found a bunch of forum chat from head-fi.org stretching a couple of years, with most of the chat heating up in the last couple of weeks. That was her "Ah ha!" moment. And felt she had me under her thumb. She called and threw it in my face! Telling me she knew the tube was in demand and can't be found anywhere, otherwise, I wouldn't be talking to her in the first place. Basically told me to pay $360/20ct or $500+ for individual tubes or get lost! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yeah, we do share key finds on public pages and this is one example of it coming back to bite us.


----------



## dminches

silent one said:


> (likely a transplanted New Yorker)


 
  
 I resemble that comment....


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> Clayton, that is awful! I think I would spend the day with my foot up enjoying my favorite amp and headphones....I hope you will be back to full speed soon!


 
 Thanks, longbowbbs.
  


ultrainferno said:


> Get well soon C! Music (and cookies) will make healing easier. For my birthday I would like my gf to say yes when I finally propose to her
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, Ultra-friend
  


silent one said:


> Sorry to hear about your new reality and wish you a _speedy_ recovery.


 
 Thank you, O Silent One. 
  


xcalibur255 said:


> Sorry to hear about the foot Clayton.  I know what those troubles are like.  It's doubling frustrating when it is the same injury in the same place twice, feels like progress isn't being made.  Hopefully things will be back in order soon.


 
 Thanks, Xcalibur255, left foot is better now.
  
  
_*Thanks to all of you. My foot is 75% better. Work even paid for my cab rides to work for 2 days.*_


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> I resemble that comment....


 

 I have to say compliment


----------



## Xcalibur255

rosgr63 said:


> Which are TV tubes?


 

 The rectifiers.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Never heard from Clayton and Eric, I wonder why........................
> 
> Probably too busy listening to music.


 
 Busy work week. I get home tomorrow after 4 nights out...(Bringing home my new Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures!) I have a bid in on a 596 on e-bay. trying to rebuild my collection. I did drop an e-mail to the shop Glenn mentioned. I need more free time...


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations Eric, I bet they'll sound great with you new amp.
  
 I am having problems with ebay lately.
 Every time a search for a B65 what do I get?
  
 A bra....................
  
 Anything I can do to improve my search?


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> Congratulations Eric, I bet they'll sound great with you new amp.
> 
> I am having problems with ebay lately.
> Every time a search for a B65 what do I get?
> ...


 

 I think you'd need an adapter before you could use the B65.


----------



## rosgr63

Should I use the word adapter together with B65 for better results?


----------



## Silent One

Split the alphanumeric - search engine thinks you're using the European sizing for brassieres.


----------



## rosgr63

I won't even mention what I get when I type in *Svetlana..........*


----------



## Silent One




----------



## rosgr63

Maybe it's a sign to keep away from CCCP tubes.........


----------



## rosgr63

Candi Staton and Saint Etienne on the decks...........


----------



## Errymoose

You could try buying all of the offending items so they don't show up in your searches any more...


----------



## rosgr63

I'll just type in Raytheon from now on to be safe.........


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Candi Staton and Saint Etienne on the decks...........


 
  





 THE Canzetta Maria Staton?!?!?! I'm coming over!


----------



## rosgr63

That would make me so happy SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 I won't talk food or sweets, music, audio gear and tubes only.


----------



## Silent One

I have Candi's 12" Club Mix of "Victim" and it absolutely kills the album version despite being around the same track length of appx 8:31. If you ain't got it, I need to get it to you!


----------



## rosgr63

Need to check when i get back home.
 Do you remember "You Got the Love" with The Source?


----------



## Silent One

Have not heard or remember that release...


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> I won't even mention what I get when I type in *Svetlana..........*


 
 Russian Brides dot com?


----------



## 2359glenn

Order a tube and get a woman that can't speak the language.
 Sounds like a good deal.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## longbowbbs

ROFLMAO!!


----------



## Silent One

Good thing I wasn't sippin' Mimosa when I read Glenn's comment! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My electronics are right upside the dining table.


----------



## jc9394

longbowbbs said:


> Russian Brides dot com?


 
  
  
 I need to visit this thread more often...


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Russian Brides dot com?
> ...


 
 It is a fun bunch around here. Sometimes we even talk about headphones and amps....


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Order a tube and get a woman that can't speak the language.
> Sounds like a good deal.


 
  
 I'm sure there is a common _language_ that we ail all understand...definitely a good deal...


----------



## jc9394

longbowbbs said:


> It is a fun bunch around here. Sometimes we even talk about *headphones and amps*....


 
  
 What is that???  
  
  
  
  
oh, the custom Glenn's amp...


----------



## rosgr63

Wow, you are such a bad bunch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 Innocent me looking for help and look where I end up...............


----------



## Ultrainferno

I do think we scare some new people off in here


----------



## Ultrainferno

Oh, and if you're looking for some 3CG's, the good seller is back. I got mine from him, but then they were cheaper
  
 http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/131022293795?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> Oh, and if you're looking for some 3CG's, the good seller is back. I got mine from him, but then they were cheaper
> 
> http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/131022293795?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


 
  
 nice, going to order  some but need to figure out to read dutch?
  
 Found English version.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-new-Tube-C3g-C3gS-NOS-Siemens-Post-rohre-/131022293795?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e81898b23


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> Russian Brides dot com?


 
  
 Already a long time life member
  
  


2359glenn said:


> Order a tube and get a woman that can't speak the language.
> Sounds like a good deal.


 
  
 If you need any testing I volunteer.
 Can't have all my 9 testers idle.
  


ultrainferno said:


> I do think we scare some new people off in here


 
  
  
 Ultra thanks for the link
 I'll be good for a while, here's my latest discovery:


----------



## rosgr63

jc9394 said:


> nice, going to order  some but need to figure out to read dutch?


 
  
  
  
 John search by Item No: 131022293795


----------



## jc9394

rosgr63 said:


> John search by Item No: 131022293795


 
  
 Found it and ordered 4, need to confirm the amp build with Glenn.  Definitely 5U4G (596) with C3g, just not sure I want a 300B or 45.


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> Oh, and if you're looking for some 3CG's, the good seller is back. I got mine from him, but then they were cheaper
> 
> http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/131022293795?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


 
  
 Thanks for the link Ultra, that is half what out vendors charge for it.  It still a bargain.  Maybe order more?


----------



## Ultrainferno

jc9394 said:


> Thanks for the link Ultra, that is half what out vendors charge for it.  It still a bargain.  Maybe order more?


 
  
 I am ordering 2 indeed, but I have 2 pairs already
 Can I also suggest you try the RK60 tube on GLenn's amp? It does need an adapter.


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> I am ordering 2 indeed, but I have 2 pairs already
> Can I also suggest you try the RK60 tube on GLenn's amp? It does need an adapter.


 
  
 It is just a drop in replacement for 5U4G?  Need to find some...
  
 I may order two more pairs, this will last me 20+ years with 4 hours play everyday.


----------



## Ultrainferno

jc9394 said:


> It is just a drop in replacement for 5U4G?  Need to find some...
> 
> I may order two more pairs, this will last me 20+ years with 4 hours play everyday.


 
  
 5U4(G) = 596 with adapter = RK60 with adapter
  
 Don't worry about the C3G. My guy has over 200 left


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> 5U4(G) = 596 with adapter = RK60 with adapter
> 
> Don't worry about the C3G. My guy has over 200 left


 
  
  
 Nice, I can order some later.   After I get my amp from Glenn...


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> I may order two more pairs, this will last me 20+ years with 4 hours play everyday.


 
  
 Then what are you going to do after the 20th+ year? You better order more.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Then what are you going to do after the 20th+ year? You better order more.


 
  
  
 I'm hoping to fly to LA and take SO's Shindo home before that...


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> I'm hoping to fly to LA and take SO's Shindo home before that...


 
  
 It might still be in storage and in mint condition. j/k


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> It might still be in storage and in mint condition. j/k


 
  
 Then I will unwrap it myself...


----------



## Clayton SF

Elizabethan Headphones circa late 1500s
 Hooked up to my _Glenn *Tower of London* Mono Block Amps_
 Burn in for 24/7 since 1485AD = 4,628,347.68 hours.
 Wench not included.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Then I will unwrap it myself...


 
  

  
 I already unwrapped one for a quick iPhone pix.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> It might still be in storage and in mint condition. j/k


 
  
 Great news! Matt heard back from Ken Shindo on Wednesday. The Silver Interconnects should arrive by next week and will be bringing my kit home.


----------



## jc9394

Nice, now I really need a trip to LA...


----------



## wotts

jc9394 said:


> Nice, now I really need a trip to LA...


 
  
  
 +1
  
 Would make for an interesting and exciting first visit to CA, and LA no less. I really should travel more.


----------



## Silent One

Wait... I only own 2 of the amps in that pix. Better visit Clayton SF.


----------



## jc9394

Road trip, from LA to SF...


----------



## Clayton SF

Or a plane trip to visit Ultra-. He's got an impressive amp room himself (LP wall clock included).


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> Elizabethan Headphones circa late 1500s
> Hooked up to my _Glenn *Tower of London* Mono Block Amps_
> Burn in for 24/7 since 1485AD = 4,628,347.68 hours.
> Wench not included.


 
 Where did you get that image? - it does not look like a painting from the canon. Maybe a contemporary take or some clever photoshop?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

clayton sf said:


> Elizabethan Headphones circa late 1500s
> Hooked up to my _Glenn *Tower of London* Mono Block Amps_
> Burn in for 24/7 since 1485AD = 4,628,347.68 hours.
> Wench not included.


 
 LOL


----------



## Clayton SF

Interesting enough, I came across these on the internet searching for classical Dutch paintings and these headphone studio photographs popped up. Google goes bonkers. Various girls with headphone props in various interpretations of Elizabethan, Dutch, and modern settings.
  
 Here's more. 
 I think they're great. I'd love to have a few as wall hangings right above my amplifiers and headphones.


----------



## 2359glenn

JC

Do the C3g driving a 300B with Lundahl transformers This will be the best setup
Lundahl transformers are a little expensive but worth it. This setup will walk all over a WA5.
Not sure about 5U4 though might use two TV damper diodes instead. Higher power
and lower noise. The ones I plan on using have a cap on top for the cathode.
The number is 42EC4 if you want to look at them on E-Bay. These tubes can handle
1 amp 1000ma at 6500 volts. Electrically Two of these will make a 5U4 look silly.
Plus I can get the 42EC4 for $1.00 each a little more on E-Bay.


----------



## Silent One

Yum-o!


----------



## longbowbbs

Well, the Vandersteen's are in the house! Bi-Wiring may sound better but it is a pain. Now for a couple hundred hours of breaking in.
  
 I found 3 RK60's and ordered them I have Glenn adapters on order as well. I am curious how they do vs the 596.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> JC
> 
> Do the C3g driving a 300B with Lundahl transformers This will be the best setup
> Lundahl transformers are a little expensive but worth it. This setup will walk all over a WA5.
> ...




Nice, same me a brunch of money. Just spend more moola on 300B.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> Nice, same me a brunch of money. Just spend more moola on 300B.


 

 Just use the low cost JJ300Bs they sound decent. With high quality transformers it will still sound better
 with JJ300Bs then a amp with lessor transformers and expensive 300Bs.


----------



## 2359glenn

longbowbbs said:


> Well, the Vandersteen's are in the house! Bi-Wiring may sound better but it is a pain. Now for a couple hundred hours of breaking in.
> 
> I found 3 RK60's and ordered them I have Glenn adapters on order as well. I am curious how they do vs the 596.


 

 The 596 is a better tube but they are now unobtainum so there is only the RK60 that looks like that
 The RK60 is more like a 5U4G and a 596 is like a 5U4GB.


----------



## Silent One

Regarding the USAF/JAN-596, we have a real hum-dinger! While our collective interest in the glass _did_ shove it over in to unobtainium territory, decent surplus remains. The challenge for me as I see it is, how do we find and alert those who have them, without tipping-off dealers and speculators that want some of our action... and a body part?






 
  
 We should be our own '596' Collective, to pursue and protect our interests.


----------



## longbowbbs

With the seeming explosion in Tube interest it will be something to see what other tubes have a run on them. I wonder if some of the current production tubes will be able to provide the sonic benefits that are ascribed to the ever scarcer NOS?


----------



## rnadell

plus 1 for that idea.


----------



## Silent One

I am relieved that no one to date has thrown eggs against my listening room for hyping the tube.


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> Regarding the USAF/JAN-596, we have a real hum-dinger! While our collective interest in the glass _did_ shove it over in to unobtainium territory, decent surplus remains. The challenge for me as I see it is, how do we find and alert those who have them, _*without tipping-off dealers *_and speculators that want some of our action... and a body part?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Jack may still have some of the action. Do you think he'd lower the price to help those who have helped him? Just a thought. I think that he's the only one that has them.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Jack may still have some of the action. Do you think he'd lower the price to help those who have helped him? Just a thought. I think that he's the only one that has them.


 
  
 No. I sold him the last 12-14 recs in January @ the Group Buy price. When I bought two matched-pairs back from him a few months ago, he charged me retail.


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> No. I sold him the last 12-14 recs in January @ the Group Buy price. When I bought two matched-pairs back from him a few months ago, he charged me retail.


 

 Well at least it's in the family!


----------



## jc9394

I guess the good think is that I saved 2 matched pairs...


----------



## wotts

jc9394 said:


> I guess the good think is that I saved 2 matched pairs...




I did the same. I have two singles as well.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

silent one said:


> I am relieved that no one to date has thrown eggs against my listening room for hyping the tube.


 
 Where's your listening room?


----------



## Silent One

Wait your turn at Halloween!


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's a shame the tube had to turn into the latest hoarding fad and have its potential cut short.  But, on the bright side at least some folks got to hear and enjoy the tube, and they were put to use instead of collecting dust in a warehouse.
  
 Speaking of old tubes, the Sylvania 45s have finally settled in and stopped being edgy.  As such I had a tremendously enjoyable listening session tonight with the amp.  It sounded gorgeous from beginning to end.
  
 I honestly can't imagine pre-recorded music sounding any better than this.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> JC
> 
> Do the C3g driving a 300B with Lundahl transformers This will be the best setup
> Lundahl transformers are a little expensive but worth it. This setup will walk all over a WA5.
> ...


----------



## rosgr63

To be honest I can't understand the 596 hype.
 They have the same plates as the 5U4GB and probably sound very close to them.
  
 I do have a pair but never bothered with them.
  
 Tyrell nice to know you are enjoying your Sylvania 45's now.
 Which rectifier are you using?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm not a 596 fan either. I don't find them sounding the same as as 5U4G tubes Stavros. The 596 is very dynamic whilr the 5U4G have more body and bass, treble is not as pronounced as with the faster 596. It was nice to try and I thank Clayton for the tube, but it's been safely stored now. The RK60 is a mix of both but it's closer to the 5U4G.
  
 It seems like we finally got people to try the RK60. I hope they'll like them. I personally think people just want to use rectifiers that need adapters with connectors to go on top of the tubes, just cause they look cool.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Glenn, besides the usual bunch and the RK60 and 596, is there another special tube we could try? You discovered both so maybe there's another one?
 (one can hope, right?)


----------



## rosgr63

Ultra, it's the same as the 5U4GB, I don't know how close it is to the 5U4G, I haven't tried any of them.
 My comments are theoretical I am only going by the construction and specs.
  
 Glenn has given my a nice RK60 but I haven't tried that either.
 I am not a rectifier person, I prefer simple choices when it comes to rectifiers.
  
 It's good to have people who roll rectifiers I am sure there's lot of fun in it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

It sure is cheaper than rolling 300bs, and the C3G is not rollable, so...
  
 Oh, did I tell I scored a huge number of NOS RCA branded mesh plate Tung Sol 6SJ7WGT? I wonder how much these go for nowadays. there's a pair on ebay for 150$


----------



## rosgr63

Well Done!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Glenn, besides the usual bunch and the RK60 and 596, is there another special tube we could try? You discovered both so maybe there's another one?
> (one can hope, right?)


 

 I am running out of neat looking 5 volt rectifiers to come up with. The RK-60 is close to being a 5U4G.
 Stavros is right about the 596 it is identical to a 5U4GB and probably sounds the same yet everyone hates
 the 5U4GB. I think nobody likes the looks of the 5U4GB and don't use it even though it is far superior
 to a 5U4G.
 I really don't know I use TV damper diodes in my 300B amps.
 Damper diodes have the lowest switching noise of any diode SS or tube. You cannot here switching noise
 it just makes the music sound harsh.
 In amps that I sell I make them take the 5 volt rectifiers because everybody wants them. In the OTL I
 really made to take the 3DG4 another TV tube but wired the socket to take the 3.3 or 5 volt rectifiers.
 And it really should only use the 3DG4 or GZ37 that can handle 350ma you can use a 5U4/596 but you
 are cooking it
 But I never recommend using the 5U4 I always say to use a GZ37 that is getting pricy.
 Many TV damper diodes and the 3DG4 can be got for $1.00


----------



## jc9394

How about GZ34?


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> How about GZ34?


 

 For what amp? The GZ34 is a good tube though.
 Why not use damper diodes?


----------



## rosgr63

Just as well people don't like the 5U4GB!!


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> For what amp? The GZ34 is a good tube though.
> Why not use damper diodes?




GZ34 instead of 5U4G with C3g and 300B? I kind of love tube rolling, is damper diodes will limit me on the option of rolling?


----------



## Ultrainferno

jc9394 said:


> GZ34 instead of 5U4G with C3g and 300B? I kind of love tube rolling, is damper diodes will limit me on the option of rolling?


 
  
 We can do that indeed. Looks like you'll be getting an amp like min, but with the Lundahls?
  
 Guys, I love the 5U4GB RCA sound, it's my fav rectifier. Ok, it looks less cool, but the sound is awesome in Glenn's amp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

what about regular RCA 5U4G? 
  
 i think Frank I uses them in a Wa5 and says they're really good.
  
 how does RCA 5U4GB compare?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Same thing, other shape? Bottle vs bulb. I remember recommending them to him.
 We could also use 5931 tubes I reckon, I have about 20 available but haven't tried yet


----------



## longbowbbs

I have a Sylvania 5U4G that I really like.
  

  
 It was great in the Decware. I need to find a twin for it t use in the Cary.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

longbowbbs said:


> I have a Sylvania 5U4G that I really like.
> 
> 
> 
> It was great in the Decware. I need to find a twin for it t use in the Cary.


 
  
 i have 2 of them, good tube for the price!


----------



## jc9394

I have a pair, will give it a try.


----------



## dminches

Based on Glenn's comments it seems like rectifiers don't have their own sound but instead affect the sound of the other tiubes. If so, they should sound differently in different circuits.


----------



## Clayton SF

I've been giving away my 596 tubes. I don't use them much anymore. But they do look cool. I also like the sound and look of the GZ37 but since I am usually listening to music and not my amp, I prefer the old standby 5U4GB like the Tung-Sol.
  
 Ultra-, keep the 596 and sell it in 20 years and use the profits to finance your future child's college education


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> I've been giving away my 596 tubes. I don't use them much anymore. But they do look cool. I also like the sound and look of the GZ37 but since I am usually listening to music and not my amp, I prefer the old standby 5U4GB like the Tung-Sol.
> 
> Ultra-, keep the 596 and sell it in 20 years and use the profits to finance your future child's college education


 
  
 Might need more 596s for that C. If not it'll be your fault he turned out a bum. I kid.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

clayton sf said:


> I've been giving away my 596 tubes. I don't use them much anymore. But they do look cool. I also like the sound and look of the GZ37 but since I am usually listening to music and not my amp, I prefer the old standby 5U4GB like the Tung-Sol.
> 
> Ultra-, keep the 596 and sell it in 20 years and use the profits to finance your future child's college education


 
  
 ill take one if ur still giving away


----------



## jc9394

Dang, too late DG beat me to it..


----------



## Ultrainferno

Is anyone giving away a pair of 300Bs? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Like I just told Clayton, I'm going for coffee tomorrow with Jan Meier from Meier Audio. Let's see if he can surprise me


----------



## Clayton SF

dubstep girl said:


> ill take one if ur still giving away


 
  
 I've already given away my allotment of 2 (Ultra- and longbowbbs), but DG, you will be next in line if I decide to give another one away. I get bitten with the "share the wealth" bug every once in a while. Tubes are of no use to me when they are gathering dust


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > ill take one if ur still giving away
> ...


 
 And we are most appreciative!


----------



## Silent One

dminches said:


> Based on Glenn's comments it seems like rectifiers don't have their own sound but instead affect the sound of the other tiubes. If so, they should sound differently in different circuits.


 
  
 This comment is spot on! I've made the comment myself previously a time or two (understatement). I'll put my vote down for variety...


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> To be honest I can't understand the 596 hype.
> They have the same plates as the 5U4GB and probably sound very close to them.
> 
> I do have a pair but never bothered with them.


 
  





 One size doesn't fit all? Imagine!
  
 When evaluating my 2359glenn custom built OTL along side my _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_, I did so with a primary focus on two tubes: 
  
 - Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plate VT-231
 - USAF 596
  
 To my ears, with the way the Woo is voiced, both returned a certain magic that I enjoyed with the presentation. And when I dropped each into the OTL, things quickly went from _dramatic-to-diminished._ There was still a bit that magic retained but barely so... and nearly negligible. 
  
 When it comes to tubes, I really don't have a preference. Because I can be emotionally moved in different ways at different times. I'm more interested in what a tube can do for me in this light and the possibilities will change along with what the tubes are working with.


----------



## Clayton SF

dminches said:


> Based on Glenn's comments it seems like rectifiers don't have their own sound but instead affect the sound of the other tiubes. If so, they should sound differently in different circuits.


 
  
 Perhaps that is the reason some high-end amps like the Leben CS-300XS and CS-600 and the popular PrimaLuna power amps do not have tube rectifiers. If you can design your amp with excellent ss rectification, then you eliminate one link in the coloring of sound and let the other tubes shine or, in this case, glow.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

clayton sf said:


> I've already given away my allotment of 2 (Ultra- and longbowbbs), but DG, you will be next in line if I decide to give another one away. I get bitten with the "share the wealth" bug every once in a while. Tubes are of no use to me when they are gathering dust


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> We can do that indeed. Looks like you'll be getting an amp like min, but with the Lundahls?
> 
> Guys, I love the 5U4GB RCA sound, it's my fav rectifier. Ok, it looks less cool, but the sound is awesome in Glenn's amp.




Yep, I think that will be the final configuration as long as Glenn think it is good.


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> I have a Sylvania 5U4G that I really like.
> 
> 
> 
> It was great in the Decware. I need to find a twin for it t use in the Cary.


 
  
 Very nice Eric, Is that Svetlana or Sylvania???????????
  


dminches said:


> Based on Glenn's comments it seems like rectifiers don't have their own sound but instead affect the sound of the other tiubes. If so, they should sound differently in different circuits.


 
  
 That's right David, even in the same circuit a different rectifier will affect the supplied voltage and *could change* the way the other tubes sound.


clayton sf said:


> I've been giving away my 596 tubes. I don't use them much anymore. But they do look cool. I also like the sound and look of the GZ37 but since *I am usually listening to music and not my amp*, I prefer the old standby 5U4GB like the Tung-Sol.
> 
> Ultra-, keep the 596 and sell it in 20 years and use the profits to finance your future child's college education


 
  
 Makes two of us, that's why I never write reviews, the music exerts a magic on me and I get drawn in.
  


silent one said:


> One size doesn't fit all? Imagine!
> 
> When evaluating my 2359glenn custom built OTL along side my _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_, I did so with a primary focus on two tubes:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 SO I am with you 100%
  
 Clayton sorry for repeating myself but SP amps use SS rectification and don't sound bad at all.


----------



## rosgr63

BTW If anybody uses 310A tubes I just found a gold mine................


----------



## Silent One

What's an example of amps that use the glass?


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Sylvania 5U4G that I really like.
> ...


 
  
 It is a Sylvania.


----------



## rosgr63

silent one said:


> What's an example of amps that use the glass?


 
  
 My Tektron uses them that's why I collect them.
  


longbowbbs said:


> It is a Sylvania.


 
  
 I thought you'd have a go at me for been naughty............again


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > What's an example of amps that use the glass?
> ...


 
 That would be like going after a fish for swimming....


----------



## rosgr63

That's funny Eric, I like it!
  
 BTW fish or mermaid?


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> That's funny Eric, I like it!
> 
> BTW fish or mermaid?


 
 I had no idea you wanted to be a mermaid....The things you learn about people!


----------



## Xcalibur255

rosgr63 said:


> To be honest I can't understand the 596 hype.
> They have the same plates as the 5U4GB and probably sound very close to them.
> 
> I do have a pair but never bothered with them.
> ...




Still the same pair. They weren't whining last night. I won't pull them until they get on my nerves again.

The tung Sol 45s go in tonight.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Glenn what do you use in your personal 300B amps for rectification? 6AX4?


----------



## 2359glenn

Damper diodes 4 of them per amp
12AX4 / 12D4 really the same tube. Your amp still has 4 diodes but each 6BY5 has 2 diodes in it.
I could have used 6AX4 because my transformers have 12.6 center tap winding so I can use 6 volt or 12 volt.
I used the !2AX4 because it was the same tube but I can get them for $1.00 ea


----------



## Xcalibur255

Damn.  One of the Tung Sols has blue swirls showing on the top of the glass.  This means the tube is gassy and is unsafe right?
  
 So out of 4 pairs of 45s only one is good and one is sort of good (one of the RCAs is weak) with the other two being bad.  This only increases my temptation to pull the trigger on the EMLs next year.


----------



## Xcalibur255

http://www.jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English-neu/blueglow/blueglow.htm
  
 So according to Jac van der Walle's article here what I'm seeing is not gas but fluorescence and the tube should be fine and safe.  The blue glow is not coming from inside the anode plate/filament area but instead looks almost like faint blue stains on the glass bulb itself.
  
 Glenn in your opinion is the tube okay to use?  If the tube were in fact gassy what is the risk of using it?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## jc9394

That blue glow is pretty common with 596.


----------



## john57

I even have the very light blue glow on some of the Russia 6AS7 tubes. Nothing to be concern about.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Maybe I'll fire it back up again.  It's hard to tell what's what with these old tubes.
  
 It's very pretty, just slight traces of dark blues swirls on the glass.  They are stationary for the record, not moving.  Only one tube is doing it.  The other one has a filament wire that appears to not be taut but it sounded normal when I ear tested before shutting it off.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Xcalibur255

So I turned the amp back on. 
  
 I really wish I knew how to take low light shots with a camera.  This is the coolest thing I've seen since the first time I ever saw a tube light up.  The blue is definitely on the inside of the glass itself, it's not coming from the filament or the plate.  Now that I've looked more closely it actually swirls and snakes around on the glass a bit.  It's also twice as bright as it was last time, the blue is almost as prominent as the filament glow with the lights in the room off.
  
 They seem to sound normal.  Cool stuff.


----------



## longbowbbs

Eye and Ear candy! k00l!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Best I can manage.


----------



## Clayton SF

Here's a picture of my PrimaLuna with a quad of 6550C Russian tubes and all of them have blue swirls. They seem to be okay since they've been like that for the past 3 years.


----------



## Xcalibur255

From what I was reading this seems to be more common with pentodes and beam tetrodes than it is with triodes.  Certain types of blue can mean gas and that the tube is no good, I guess if it is a cloudy blue coming from inside the plates.  Glenn told me one of the National Union tubes I sent him for testing the amp started to glow blue from gas so I thought maybe blue was bad period for 45 tubes.  Since what this Tung Sol seems to be doing is no big deal I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the light show.


----------



## Clayton SF

Here's some info on tubes that have that blue glow:
 http://www.thetubestore.com/Resources/Matching-and-other-tube-info/Blue-Glow


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> So I turned the amp back on.
> 
> I really wish I knew how to take low light shots with a camera.  This is the coolest thing I've seen since the first time I ever saw a tube light up.  The blue is definitely on the inside of the glass itself, it's not coming from the filament or the plate.  Now that I've looked more closely it actually swirls and snakes around on the glass a bit.  It's also twice as bright as it was last time, the blue is almost as prominent as the filament glow with the lights in the room off.
> 
> They seem to sound normal.  Cool stuff.


 
  
 Ooh... I wanna see! Got a DSLR?


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> That blue glow is pretty common with 596.


 
  
 The British are coming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Very nice, jc9394!


----------



## wotts

clayton sf said:


> Here's a picture of my PrimaLuna with a quad of 6550C Russian tubes and all of them have blue swirls. They seem to be okay since they've been like that for the past 3 years.




I finally made it to the new local hifi shop today. They had the same PrimaLuna loaded with KT88 s driving some Klipsch RF-7II. I was really impressed. I've seen the ads for the amp in Stereophile and always wanted to check it out. I'm going back with some of my own music next time.


----------



## rosgr63

It should be fine to use Tyrell.
 Check this article:
  
 http://tubesound.com/2008/09/30/brown-or-black-getter-flashing-does-not-mean-used/#more-333
  
 Eric I thought I was following..................


----------



## rosgr63

Eric check this listing.............
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261310109787?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ive never seen a blue glow on any of my 596 or any of my other tubes. only noticed it once with my GEC 6AS7G curved base.


----------



## Silent One

None of my tubes either. Maybe I'll set up the Nikon for _Time-lapse_ fotos...


----------



## Clayton SF

The tubes I own that glow blue are: 

596, JJ 300B, Sovtek 5U4g, 6550C

Some of them glow blue more than others.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i guess my 596 isn't mighty


----------



## Ultrainferno

I only saw it once on one of my tubes but I can't even remember which one.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Eric check this listing.............
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261310109787?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


 
 Looks like a picture of really young Vodka.....That must be an audio accessory...


----------



## 2359glenn

.


xcalibur255 said:


> From what I was reading this seems to be more common with pentodes and beam tetrodes than it is with triodes.  Certain types of blue can mean gas and that the tube is no good, I guess if it is a cloudy blue coming from inside the plates.  Glenn told me one of the National Union tubes I sent him for testing the amp started to glow blue from gas so I thought maybe blue was bad period for 45 tubes.  Since what this Tung Sol seems to be doing is no big deal I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the light show.


 

 This is fine it is just electrons that are missing the plate and hitting the glass
 IF the amp is cranked up it will dance with the music sort of neat enjoy it.
  
 The bad stuff is a pinkish blue that is inside the plate and sometimes the whole inside
 of the tube will glow like this. Usually the tube draws lots of current when this happens.
 The tube I said was bad most of the inside lit up and the cathode current meter pinned.


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> Looks like a picture of really young Vodka.....That must be an audio accessory...


 
  
  
 596 in disguise!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 I was helping out with your 596 hunt........


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> 596 in disguise!!!!!!!!!!!! I was helping out with your 596 hunt........


 

 Megalado 596!


----------



## jc9394

Glenn, is there any 3DG4 replacement tubes? I'm leaning to you older chassis now, not patience to wait. Is the old chassis like WA6 and new chassis like WA22 in size?


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> Glenn, is there any 3DG4 replacement tubes? I'm leaning to you older chassis now, not patience to wait. Is the old chassis like WA6 and new chassis like WA22 in size?


 

 No but I will send two with the amp and they are cheep or you can put in a 5 volt rectifier.
  
 Yes the Old chassis is like the WA6 and the new is about the same size as a WA22


----------



## rosgr63

5AU4 is a good alternative.


----------



## jc9394

I do like the WA6 form factor. I will let you know if I want to get the old chassis and save than $100.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> I do like the WA6 form factor. I will let you know if I want to get the old chassis and save than $100.


 
  
  


rosgr63 said:


> 5AU4 is a good alternative.


 
 Yes that  The 5AU4 can be got for $3 and the GZ37 but they are expensive


jc9394 said:


> I do like the WA6 form factor. I will let you know if I want to get the old chassis and save than $100.


 
 Yes it has a smaller footprint and takes up less room.


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm going to the doctor tomorrow.
 They are removing my head.
 So I have to fast for 24 hours.
 No food.
 No wine.
 No apple pie.
  
 But lots of music until then.
  
 I made this last night.
 Steamed halibut over stir-fried vegetables.
  
 Now I'm really torturing myself.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> The 5AU4 can be got for $3 and the GZ37 but they are expensive


 
  
 A NOS 5AU4 here costs $27.


----------



## jc9394

It can take GZ37 but not GZ34? Good and bad news, good news it is cheaper and bad news is I like the metal base GZ34.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> I'm going to the doctor tomorrow.
> They are removing my head.


 
  
 Make sure they put it back ok? I hope all is good!


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> A NOS 5AU4 here costs $27.


 

 The best ones have the large base and large plates I had a few but I gave them to Stavros


----------



## Ultrainferno

I haven't tried the GZ34 yet but I figured my amp could take it. Glenn, what's the story?


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Make sure they put it back ok? I hope all is good!


 
 I hope they don't reattach it upside-down. (-:


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > Make sure they put it back ok? I hope all is good!
> ...


 
 They would make you move to Australia....


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> They would make you move to Australia....


 

 There you go!
 I mean, there I would go!


----------



## rnadell

Which amp are you speaking of here? 
 thanks


----------



## Ultrainferno

Check out the pics. they're custom made gorgeous tube amps from 2359Glenn


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> I'm going to the doctor tomorrow.
> They are removing my head.


 
  
 You could return with new musical sensitivity; lead The San Francisco Symphony... _a new job, a new you._


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> I'm going to the doctor tomorrow.
> They are removing my head.
> So I have to fast for 24 hours.
> No food.
> ...


 

 Sorry to here that Clayton hope it is something simple
 I go to the hospital every Tuesday for treatment no fun at all
 That looked good before a fast


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> It can take GZ37 but not GZ34? Good and bad news, good news it is cheaper and bad news is I like the metal base GZ34.


 
  
  


ultrainferno said:


> I haven't tried the GZ34 yet but I figured my amp could take it. Glenn, what's the story?


 

 The GZ34 can handle the amp it is 250 ma but more then that with choke input and the amp is choke input.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Sorry to here that Clayton hope it is something simple I go to the hospital every Tuesday for treatment no fun at all
> That looked good before a fast


 
  
 Thanks!
 I'm listening to your OTL. Handsome amp.
 Very rugged looking.
 I didn't know I could use the 6336A tube.
 I like that I can switch between 3 and 5 volt rectifiers.
 I like the 3DG4.

  
 I'm starvin' like Marvin!


----------



## GrindingThud

Wow, isn't a pair of 6336 like 10A of heater....you must be using a gargantuan 6.3 xformer. . All this talk of 6336 makes me want a 2359glenn amp too. 



clayton sf said:


> Thanks!
> I'm listening to your OTL. Handsome amp.
> Very rugged looking.
> I didn't know I could use the 6336A tube.
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

grindingthud said:


> Wow, isn't a pair of 6336 like 10A of heater....you must be using a gargantuan 6.3 xformer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 At least I hope it can. Here it is running a Russian 5Ц8C (5U8C) rectifier with an adapter from, none other than, Glenn.


----------



## jc9394

Nice Clayton, I may like the old chassis better.


----------



## GrindingThud

Ha anyone tried the 6528?


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> I have Candi's 12" Club Mix of "Victim" and it absolutely kills the album version despite being around the same track length of appx 8:31. If you ain't got it, I need to get it to you!


 
  
 I was cleaning my apartment and was rearranging my LPs and I just pulled out one LP that was sticking out of the batch. It was Candi's Staton's _House of Love_. What a coincidence. It's not the Club Mix. I'm playing it now.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> I was cleaning my apartment and was rearranging my LPs and I just pulled out one LP that was sticking out of the batch. It was Candi's Staton's _House of Love_. What a coincidence. It's not the Club Mix. I'm playing it now.


 





  
 I have "House Of Love" on LP; Cassette; CD and another 2-CD set. Which reminds me, I may be pulling my music server outta storage this Saturday. I've some great music on its internal SSD. If I could entertain you through your fasting, I'd start by telling you I cannot remember my password to the Mac mini music server.


----------



## jc9394

Joining the exclusive Glenn custom amp club...


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


> Joining the exclusive Glenn custom amp club...


 
 Congrats! Did you go with the smaller case?


----------



## jc9394

Yep, it fits in my office better.


----------



## wotts

jc9394 said:


> Joining the exclusive Glenn custom amp club...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Joining the exclusive Glenn custom amp club...


----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> I'm going to the doctor tomorrow.
> They are removing my head.
> So I have to fast for 24 hours.
> No food.
> ...


 
  
 Sorry to hear this Clayton.
 My head needs turning upside down too.
  
  


longbowbbs said:


> They would make you move to Australia....


 
  
 What about New Zealand?
  


grindingthud said:


> Ha anyone tried the 6528?


 
  
 You are probably the only one that has them.
 BTW some of the early models don't have the big transformers so if some owners think about using the 6336 best check with Glenn first.


----------



## bestguniang

good info,It's official - john57 has delivered the thread's first unboxing! thank you


----------



## Ultrainferno

Come again?


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> .
> 
> This is fine it is just electrons that are missing the plate and hitting the glass
> IF the amp is cranked up it will dance with the music sort of neat enjoy it.
> ...


 

 Thanks for the info Glenn.  I'm glad that tube didn't do that in my possession, probably would have spooked me.  Especially to see the current meter spike.
  
 The Tung Sol gained a bit more pretty blue glow on the glass top as I ran it more last night.  It's pretty cool looking and I could indeed see it move around a bit with the music.


----------



## Xcalibur255

My 02 cents on rectifiers with the OTL:  I experimented with nearly every type that would work in the amp without blowing up (except for the 596 which is really a 5U4GB), and concluded in the end that the 3DG4 sounds the best in the amp.  Which is logical because it's the tube Glenn chose for the amp so the operating points are where they are supposed to be with that tube.  Anything else will, for the most part, introduce a slightly lower B+ and makes the amp sound a bit less transparent and more "romantic" sounding.  The 5U8C probably has the most drop of them all, it has a really slow lazy sound IMO.  The 5AU4 is the closest to the 3DG4 in sound but the character is a little different, worth trying especially the old ones with the really big plates.


----------



## jc9394

Is a more preferable brand of 3DG4, not sure which brand Glenn will ship with the amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> Is a more preferable brand of 3DG4, not sure which brand Glenn will ship with the amp.


 

 I am not sure probably GE and RCA


----------



## Clayton SF

My head will be removed in 3 hours. Wish me luck in having it reattached.


----------



## jc9394

Thx, I will order some after I get a feel on them first.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> My head will be removed in 3 hours. Wish me luck in having it reattached.


 
  
 Good luck, I'm sure you will be fine.


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> Thanks for the info Glenn.  I'm glad that tube didn't do that in my possession, probably would have spooked me.  Especially to see the current meter spike.
> 
> The Tung Sol gained a bit more pretty blue glow on the glass top as I ran it more last night.  It's pretty cool looking and I could indeed see it move around a bit with the music.


 
  






 Gonna post a vid 4 ur pals?


----------



## Silent One

Clayton SF has no idea. That in the next 30 minutes, he'll be on a 30 mile bike ride along the ocean. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He'll be riding along with me in spirit, as I work out. Though, it's quite likely while "Under" he's likely to go galloping around the Galaxy... on his own. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Wishing him the best!


----------



## rosgr63

xcalibur255 said:


> My 02 cents on rectifiers with the OTL:  I experimented with nearly every type that would work in the amp without blowing up (except for the 596 which is really a 5U4GB), and concluded in the end that the 3DG4 sounds the best in the amp.  Which is logical because it's the tube Glenn chose for the amp so the operating points are where they are supposed to be with that tube.  Anything else will, for the most part, introduce a slightly lower B+ and makes the amp sound a bit less transparent and more "romantic" sounding.  The 5U8C probably has the most drop of them all, it has a really slow lazy sound IMO.  The 5AU4 is the closest to the 3DG4 in sound but the character is a little different, worth trying especially the old ones with the really big plates.


 
  
 Thanks for your thoughts.
 I am a 3DG4 person too.


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> Clayton SF has no idea. That in the next 30 minutes, he'll be on a 30 mile bike ride along the ocean.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LOL. Or after I come to, I will roam the halls looking from my amps. "Where'd they go?"


----------



## Xcalibur255

jc9394 said:


> Is a more preferable brand of 3DG4, not sure which brand Glenn will ship with the amp.


 

 Try to find the older style that has both top and side getters.  They're typically labeled Zenith (though not made by) because these tubes were designed for use in Zenith TVs.  I'm parroting info Glenn has given us previously here for the record.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Amongst the shorter glass style that are side getter only I personally like the Sylvania best.  The difference between Sylvania/GE/RCA is quite subtle though, and you can easily buy every type and try for yourself since the tube costs nothing and is not in demand.  Another thing I have found is the ones with slightly taller glass seem to fare a tad bit better as well vs. the shorter glass.  The shorter it is the newer the production I think.


----------



## Xcalibur255

You can have my head Clayton, aside from providing a perch upon which to place headphones it rarely does me any good.


----------



## Neogeo333

Glenn, your amp just arrived along with the tubes. its HUGE! I won't be able to unbox it till later. still at work. Thanks and we need to discuss some issue with shippping.


----------



## 2359glenn

I hope there is no damage I have the amp totally surrounded in foam.
Should have been able to take somewhat of a wack


----------



## magiccabbage

I hope everything is ok.


----------



## Clayton SF

xcalibur255 said:


> You can have my head Clayton, aside from providing a perch upon which to place headphones it rarely does me any good.


 

 Thanks. They reattached my head. I'm back to normal but now my amps sound different. Head rolling/tube rolling--this has got to stop.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > You can have my head Clayton, aside from providing a perch upon which to place headphones it rarely does me any good.
> ...


 
 I think King Henry the VIII was the first Head roller....


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> LOL. Or after I come to, I will roam the halls looking from my amps. "Where'd they go?"


 
  
 Sometimes in this hobby, we think moar is better - so I dropped 50 miles to ensure a better outcome (Redondo Beach > Malibu > Redondo Beach)!


----------



## Neogeo333

Hello guys, just chiming in to report that already unpacked the amp and hook everything up.  Using a balanced to rca cable from my DP-1 because the rca from the dac is already used by my other amp.  Too lazy and tired I guess.  I used a Yamaha YH-1 with 1/4" and a Yamaha HP-1 with 4pin xlr.  Glenn said I could use both at the same time limited if they are similar cans.  Between the two I prefer the HP-1 sound.  So im going to keep listen to the 4pin for this early evaluation. 
  
 This thing is a back breaker, I have to guess close to 30-33 pounds.  And those foam tubes, I thought they were never going to end when unpacking.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But thank to Glenn the amp arrived safe and sound. 
  
 Have a feeling this is going to be a long night for me.
  
 Thanks Glenn for the work of this amp.  It looks better in person than the photos.


----------



## Silent One

To you and Glenn!


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> I think King Henry the VIII was the first Head roller....


 
  
 Nero was before Henry, he tried a few heads on until he settled for the RudiStor one.
  


xcalibur255 said:


> You can have my head Clayton, aside from providing a perch upon which to place headphones it rarely does me any good.


 
  
 Mine is the same as yours Tyrell, Clayton can have both.
  


clayton sf said:


> LOL. Or after I come to, I will roam the halls looking from my amps. "Where'd they go?"


 
  
 Do they sound upside down or did you get a channel swap Right to Left?
  


neogeo333 said:


> Hello guys, just chiming in to report that already unpacked the amp and hook everything up.  Using a balanced to rca cable from my DP-1 because the rca from the dac is already used by my other amp.  Too lazy and tired I guess.  I used a Yamaha YH-1 with 1/4" and a Yamaha HP-1 with 4pin xlr.  Glenn said I could use both at the same time limited if they are similar cans.  Between the two I prefer the HP-1 sound.  So im going to keep listen to the 4pin for this early evaluation.
> 
> This thing is a back breaker, I have to guess close to 30-33 pounds.  And those foam tubes, I thought they were never going to end when unpacking.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Congratulations George, happy listening!


----------



## Neogeo333

Thanks Stavros.  After 2 hours of warmup I decided to have a little bit critical listening.  Well rested and of course a nice hot shower.  Norah Jones, Come Away with Me, sounds pretty good on the instruments and its very easy to hear the layers of sound of each instrument.  Vocals its another story.  Its hard to say but it doesnt sound as natural as my other amp.  A tad harch and unrefine.  Soundstage is pretty good and background is quite but I could hear a faint hum, very minimal but its there.  Using my LFF Paradox phone-Sylvania 6336A-RCA 3DG4-VR102.  And a el cheapo monoprice xlr to rca cable.  When I have more time this week, I will most likely replace it with a GZ37 and better cables.  Also need to buy another Pangea power cable to properly feed it more juice.  In this time limited session with Glenn 6336 OTL amp it been a real eye, in this case ear opener.  Definitely need more time to find the right combo of tubes.  Overall quite a nice amp and on par with my last tube amp the LD MK6+.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Thanks. They reattached my head. I'm back to normal but now my amps sound different. Head rolling/tube rolling--this has got to stop.


 
  
 Yay, he's back! Let's celebrate with an early desert!
  

  
  
  


neogeo333 said:


> Glenn, your amp just arrived along with the tubes. its HUGE! I won't be able to unbox it till later. still at work. Thanks and we need to discuss some issue with shippping.


 
  
 This would be the New Style OTL I presume. Do note you're not an official 2359Glenn owner without having posted pictures here


----------



## Silent One

Pix please...


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Yay, he's back! Let's celebrate with an early desert!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks to everyone for the welcome-back.
  
 Those desserts look good (again).
  
 Stavros told me to count tubes when they started the anesthesia. So I told him I would. The anesthesiologist said "This injection will relax you." I said thank you and then woke up in the recovery room. I didn't even get to say #1 5U4G... That's good stuff. And legal too.
  
 I rearranged my bedroom (bad Idea) and when I woke up I tripped on everything that wasn't there before but is now there for the time being (huh?).
  
 It is good to be back. The sound is really nice upside-down.


----------



## Xcalibur255

neogeo333 said:


> Thanks Stavros.  After 2 hours of warmup I decided to have a little bit critical listening.  Well rested and of course a nice hot shower.  Norah Jones, Come Away with Me, sounds pretty good on the instruments and its very easy to hear the layers of sound of each instrument.  Vocals its another story.  Its hard to say but it doesnt sound as natural as my other amp.  A tad harch and unrefine.  Soundstage is pretty good and background is quite but I could hear a faint hum, very minimal but its there.  Using my LFF Paradox phone-Sylvania 6336A-RCA 3DG4-VR102.  And a el cheapo monoprice xlr to rca cable.  When I have more time this week, I will most likely replace it with a GZ37 and better cables.  Also need to buy another Pangea power cable to properly feed it more juice.  In this time limited session with Glenn 6336 OTL amp it been a real eye, in this case ear opener.  Definitely need more time to find the right combo of tubes.  Overall quite a nice amp and on par with my last tube amp the LD MK6+.


 

 Don't worry about the harshness, the Sprague caps will go through this twice before they settle.  It will settle and go away with more time.  It took my amp over 2 months before it stopped changing in sound.  You haven't heard what the amp is capable of in terms of transparency yet either.  It's a fun ride.
  
 When I first listened to my OTL (feels like a long time ago now, whew) I remember telling Glenn my initial impression was that it felt "about on par" with my then WA6 for resolution.  A couple of months later I was eating those words big time.  The two amps ended up being in entirely different leagues and the WA6 was sold without my having ever really even listened to it again once I owned my OTL.


----------



## Clayton SF

Oh and by the way I forgot to tell you because all of this is just coming back to me.
 While I was under (out like a lamp), I dreamed of an updated Princess Leia (PL v.2.1) with headphones.
 Beautiful dream. Where am I?
  
 Nurse, turn up the volume, please.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

How do u guys think glenn otl compares to more expensive amps? Endgame? Or comparable to 1-2k amps? Or best otl ever?


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> How do u guys think glenn otl compares to more expensive amps? Endgame? Or comparable to 1-2k amps? Or best otl ever?


 
  
 Please allow me to rephrase you question.  Is it better than WA2?


----------



## Ultrainferno

jc9394 said:


> Please allow me to rephrase you question.  Is it better than WA2?


----------



## wotts

dubstep girl said:


> How do u guys think glenn otl compares to more expensive amps? Endgame? Or comparable to 1-2k amps? Or best otl ever?


 
  
 I can just let you borrow mine for a bit.


----------



## rosgr63

dubstep girl said:


> How do u guys think glenn otl compares to more expensive amps? Endgame? Or comparable to 1-2k amps? Or best otl ever?


 
  
  
 Do you mean how does a Glenn OTL compare to a $6000 headphone amp?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wotts said:


> I can just let you borrow mine for a bit.




Thanks  me and jc already worked something out though.

And curious how it compares not only to wa2, but also just tube amps in general, it will either be a complement, or the last tube amp ill ever need.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 No no, you will need another Glenn amp on 3DG4/GZ34, C3g, and 300B amp.


----------



## wotts

I'd say it's the last OTL you'll need. I still want a SET amp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

No 300b!!

At most im considering stratus, for 2a3 as well as being able to use all my 5u4g and maybe 274b as well.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> No 300b!!
> 
> At most im considering stratus, for 2a3 as well as being able to use all my 5u4g and maybe 274b as well.


 
  
  
 Glenn can do a 45.  Not sure on 2A3, I never asked him...


----------



## Xcalibur255

My amp will take a 2A3.  It's done fairly often with 45 amps actually.  I'm curious how jc's amp will end up, will basically be what I have except with 300B and without the damper diode full wave bridge rectifier configuration.  I'm finding my amp will not play super loud with the LCD-2 without losing composure, but definitely loud enough so I remain skeptical about whether a 300B is necessary for headphones.  Now if the amp has speaker taps then it makes all kinds of sense, but I wanted a pure headphone amp since I was planning to go for 300B monoblocks as well and didn't need the overlap in functionality.
  
 All the talk about endgame can make us lose sight of what matters, enjoying music.  I wondered to myself the other day how much better my amp might be over an ECBA or a Stratus, but then thought what does it matter?  And what would knowing that change?  Nothing.  I'm happy and content and am enjoying music.  All there is to it.


----------



## jc9394

If you like what you have now, stop looking. Your wallet will love you...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

xcalibur255 said:


> All the talk about endgame can make us lose sight of what matters, enjoying music.  I wondered to myself the other day how much better my amp might be over an ECBA or a Stratus, but then thought what does it matter?  And what would knowing that change?  Nothing.  I'm happy and content and am enjoying music.  All there is to it.


 
  
 i wish i could do that as well and save money! but i do like tube sound and want amp/amps that use all the tubes i currently have.
  
 as for ECBA, i didn't like it a whole lot.


----------



## Xcalibur255

jc9394 said:


> If you like what you have now, stop looking. Your wallet will love you...


 
  
 I probably wasn't expressing myself well.  There is a tendency on this forum to be hyper aware of how one's gear compares to what else is out there, and was just implying that focusing on this too much makes us lose perspective sometimes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

dubstep girl said:


> as for ECBA, i didn't like it a whole lot.


 
 What didn't you like about the ECBA if I may ask?


----------



## 2359glenn

I think for high impedance phones this OTL can't be beat at least not for the HD-650 or HD-800.
At 1/2 the price of other amps.
LCD-2 or3 I would recommend the C3g > 300B why a 45 or 2A3 when the transformers cost
the same for the 300b and it could also drive speakers. Whatever rectifier is not that important.
 On a high quality tube amp the output transformers are the most important part even over expensive tubes.
JJ300Bs can be got for $200 a pair and sound good. 
I like to use tubes that can be got for cheep and outperform these boutique over priced tubes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

xcalibur255 said:


> What didn't you like about the ECBA if I may ask?


 
  
 bright and kinda lean, way too fast sounding, fatiguing with hd 800. 
  
 great clarity though, but too bright, and not worth the 4k price tag


----------



## magiccabbage

> I like to use tubes that can be got for cheep and outperform these boutique over priced tubes.


 
 I like the sound of that! 
  
 Does it cost much more to have the transformers covered like in this pic? - 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/lightbox/post/9838558/id/939650


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> I think for high impedance phones this OTL can't be beat at least not for the HD-650 or HD-800.
> At 1/2 the price of other amps.
> LCD-2 or3 I would recommend the C3g > 300B why a 45 or 2A3 when the transformers cost
> the same for the 300b and it could also drive speakers. Whatever rectifier is not that important.
> ...


 
  
 i want an amp that sounds good stock of course, but that becomes extremely good after using boutique/unobtainium tubes.
  
 the tube amp would mainly be for high impedances for me, which is why an otl would be nice. it would be nice if it worked for low impedance like K701, grados, denons, etc as well.
  
 i wouldn't use orthos on it, that would be for my GS-X mk2.
  
 i do want to be able to use my 5U4G/274B/GZ34/GZ37/5R4GY tubes and their variants. since i don't want to sell any of them and i like tube rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 your OTL supports all the 7236/6AS7G/6080/5998/421A tube types right?


----------



## Xcalibur255

dubstep girl said:


> bright and kinda lean, way too fast sounding, fatiguing with hd 800.
> 
> great clarity though, but too bright, and not worth the 4k price tag


 
  
 Was it the 300B/PX4 or the 45/2A3 version of the amp?  I myself was surprised at what the 45 tube actually sounds like.  Because it is such an old tube you get a certain idea that it will have that tubey sound, but it indeed a very fast and rather lit up sound like you describe.  I don't think my amp sounds lean though, just very truthful to the music.  It suits the LCD-2 very very well.  My DT880's........ not so much.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Then again I tried the DT880s on my OTL the next day and wasn't liking it then either so I think the amazing sound I'm getting from the 45 > LCD-2 combo has just ruined me for the Beyers in general.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

xcalibur255 said:


> Was it the 300B/PX4 or the 45/2A3 version of the amp?  I myself was surprised at what the 45 tube actually sounds like.  Because it is such an old tube you get a certain idea that it will have that tubey sound, but it indeed a very fast and rather lit up sound like you describe.  I don't think my amp sounds lean though, just very truthful to the music.  It suits the LCD-2 very very well.  My DT880's........ not so much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 300b/px4
  
 interested in what a 2a3/45 amp would be like.


----------



## dminches

What do you guys mean by an amp sounding fast?


----------



## Xcalibur255

dubstep girl said:


> i want an amp that sounds good stock of course, but that becomes extremely good after using boutique/unobtainium tubes.
> 
> the tube amp would mainly be for high impedances for me, which is why an otl would be nice. it would be nice if it worked for low impedance like K701, grados, denons, etc as well.
> 
> ...


 

 Glenn's OTL design is much more flexible than the WA2, it drives low impedance headphones with authority which is unusual for an OTL design.  It has moved away from the 5998 toward the 6336 because both Glenn and I have had headphones blown up by 5998 tubes with shorts.  The 6336 is a demanding tube in terms of current draw, most of the rectifiers you mention are not usable with this setup.  Even the 6AS7 will overtax many of them.  But, like I mentioned the other day the 3DG4 sounds really good and costs nothing.  Why spend all that money on different tubes when you don't gain anything from it in terms of performance?  If you like to roll just to get different flavors the 6SN7 driver stage is the one to roll for fun.
  
 Just my 02 cents.


----------



## 2359glenn

our OTL supports all the 7236/6AS7G/6080/5998/421A tube types right?
Yes It can take all these.
And it can drive lower impedance headphones if you try 6336 output tubes
inplace of the 6AS7. you just have to use a powerful rectifier with them.
3DG4 , 5AU4 , GZ37 no 5U4G maybe a 5U4GB or 596 will work with these tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

dminches said:


> What do you guys mean by an amp sounding fast?


 

 Faster transient and impulse response.  Something SS amps are traditionally better at than tube amps, but it all comes down to design.  Generalizations mean nothing in the face of talented design I have found.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

xcalibur255 said:


> Glenn's OTL design is much more flexible than the WA2, it drives low impedance headphones with authority which is unusual for an OTL design.  It has moved away from the 5998 toward the 6336 because both Glenn and I have had headphones blown up by 5998 tubes with shorts.  The 6336 is a demanding tube in terms of current draw, most of the rectifiers you mention are not usable with this setup.  Even the 6AS7 will overtax many of them.  But, like I mentioned the other day the 3DG4 sounds really good and costs nothing.  Why spend all that money on different tubes when you don't gain anything from it in terms of performance?  If you like to roll just to get different flavors the 6SN7 driver stage is the one to roll for fun.
> 
> Just my 02 cents.


 
  
 i guess i just like tube rolling and the fact that i already have all those rectifiers
  
 whats the 3DG4 like?


----------



## Clayton SF

I own a few pairs of shoes. Each serves its purpose. If I had to decide on one shoe to be the best of all shoes it would drive me nuts--let alone wreck my feet. That's why I own a few amps and a few headphones and why I don't really try to best one over the other. Just saying.  Right Ultra- ?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i would probably be happy with glenn otl, stratus, and WA2, hope it doesn't end up like that.


----------



## jc9394

I probably end up with beta22, wa5le, Glenn otl, and set amp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

of course i'll keep my GSX MK2 in that list as well


----------



## jc9394

I almost offered to get it from you.


----------



## 2359glenn

Building this amp I realize why I stopped using the small chassis
 The new power transformer I am using is larger and I am having a problem
 fitting everything on the top of the chassis. so I have to move the filter
 capacitor under the chassis ware there is already no room.
 Putting 100lbs of s**t in a 10lb bag


----------



## Neogeo333

2359glenn said:


> Building this amp I realize why I stopped using the small chassis
> The new power transformer I am using is larger and I am having a problem
> fitting everything on the top of the chassis. so I have to move the filter
> capacitor under the chassis ware there is already no room.
> Putting 100lbs of s**t in a 10lb bag




Glenn you can say that again, the transformer on your otl amp is the biggest I've seen on a headphone amp. Do you guys think an good quality ac cord will make a difference on Glenn otl amp? In my experience all my equipment have improved from a good quality cable. nothing up in the stratosphere price wise but most of my cables range from 50 to 250.00.


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Glenn you can say that again, the transformer on your otl amp is the biggest I've seen on a headphone amp. Do you guys think an good quality ac cord will make a difference on Glenn otl amp? In my experience all my equipment have improved from a good quality cable. nothing up in the stratosphere price wise but most of my cables range from 50 to 250.00


 

 The transformer in your amp is bigger then the rest because the filaments of these tubes are power hogs.
 that transformer has a separate 6.3 volt winding for the BL63 and the voltage quadrupler for the multi
 voltage 6SN7s.
 The transformer that I use in my other OTLs is not much smaller
 I don't use that transformer much because it costs to much to ship the amp. And it would be way to much
 to ship that amp to Europe .
 I think a quality 14ga or 12ga power cord would help nothing ridicules in price though.


----------



## Neogeo333

Just got a Pangea AC-9SE. The plain AC-9 did wonders on my other amp and I believe it will improve on Glenn amp too.


----------



## jc9394

I like the iron lung jelly. Nothing can beat it for the price. You all realizes the wire inside the wall are crappy? I don't believe in power cable as much as single or headphone cables unless the power goes thru a power regenerator.


----------



## john57

I use a single high output AC power isolation transformer for all of my video and audio equipment. It helps to get some of the crud out of the AC mains. A double conversion power regenerator will cost more money than I have for the equipment on hand. Here is a bit of my history on this subject.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/17430


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I probably end up with beta22, wa5le, Glenn otl, and set amp.


 
  
 Being content most of the time, I'll probably end up with four corners, an iPod....... and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




da killa playlist!


----------



## rosgr63

dubstep girl said:


> bright and kinda lean, way too fast sounding, fatiguing with hd 800.
> 
> great clarity though, but too bright, and not worth the 4k price tag


 
  
 My BA doesn't sound bright at all.
 Fast and detailed yes.
 A lot depends what tubes were used at the time and on system synergy.
  


clayton sf said:


> I own a few pairs of shoes. Each serves its purpose. If I had to decide on one shoe to be the best of all shoes it would drive me nuts--let alone wreck my feet. That's why I own a few amps and a few headphones and why I don't really try to best one over the other. Just saying.  Right Ultra- ?


 
  
  
 Very wise comment. I agree 100% with you Clayton.
 There is no end game of anything.
 There is always something better.
 It's all a mind game.
  


neogeo333 said:


> Glenn you can say that again, the transformer on your otl amp is the biggest I've seen on a headphone amp. Do you guys think an good quality ac cord will make a difference on Glenn otl amp? In my experience all my equipment have improved from a good quality cable. nothing up in the stratosphere price wise but most of my cables range from 50 to 250.00.


 
  
 For me a good quality mains cable is one that has good insulation.
 How improving the last meter of your electrical wiring going to change things a lot?
 When it comes to interconnects it's a different story. 
 I agree with John about an insulation transformer.
 I use one and an Isotek system.
  


jc9394 said:


> If you like what you have now, stop looking. Your wallet will love you...


 
  
  
 That's so true.
 Some people just like showing off.
 In some parts of the world people get more pleasure from a $10 old radio than others from a $100,000 system who will never be happy unless they have the latest and most expensive gear.


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> That's so true.
> Some people just like showing off.
> In some parts of the world people get more pleasure from a $10 old radio than others from a $100,000 system who will never be happy unless they have the latest and most expensive gear.


 
  
 Stop looking and start listening!
  
 Although I have been known to disobey this motto quite frequently.


----------



## rosgr63

xcalibur255 said:


> My amp will take a 2A3.  It's done fairly often with 45 amps actually.  I'm curious how jc's amp will end up, will basically be what I have except with 300B and without the damper diode full wave bridge rectifier configuration.  I'm finding my amp will not play super loud with the LCD-2 without losing composure, but definitely loud enough so I remain skeptical about whether a 300B is necessary for headphones.  Now if the amp has speaker taps then it makes all kinds of sense, but I wanted a pure headphone amp since I was planning to go for 300B monoblocks as well and didn't need the overlap in functionality.
> 
> All the talk about endgame can make us lose sight of what matters, enjoying music.  I wondered to myself the other day how much better my amp might be over an ECBA or a Stratus, but then thought what does it matter?  And what would knowing that change?  Nothing.  I'm happy and content and am enjoying music.  All there is to it.


 
  
  
 What's your DAC's output voltage?


----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> *Stop looking and start listening!*
> 
> Although I have been known to disobey this motto quite frequently.


 
  
 You are so right Clayton, sorry.
  
 Julio Iglesias and Alejandro Fernandez  "Dos Corazones, Dos Historias" are now playing.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> LCD-2 or3 I would recommend the C3g > 300B why a 45 or 2A3 when the transformers cost
> the same for the 300b and it could also drive speakers. Whatever rectifier is not that important.
> On a high quality tube amp the output transformers are the most important part even over expensive tubes.
> JJ300Bs can be got for $200 a pair and sound good.
> I like to use tubes that can be got for cheep and outperform these boutique over priced tubes.


 
  
 I can vouch for this. My LCDs and HE-500 sound excellent with the C3G-300b
   


clayton sf said:


> I own a few pairs of shoes. Each serves its purpose. If I had to decide on one shoe to be the best of all shoes it would drive me nuts--let alone wreck my feet. That's why I own a few amps and a few headphones and why I don't really try to best one over the other. Just saying.  Right Ultra- ?


 

  
 There's no one amp or headphone to serve them all. I wouldn't know which one to choose. But if I really had to choose 1 amp and 1 headphone that could do all pretty good, it would be the Sennheiser HD650 with a Bottlehead Crack (as I don't have the Glenn OTL)


----------



## Silent One

Some pursuits begin innocently enough. For those electronic consumers that get consumed by electronics, they might wanna pass on the pet python.


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> There's no one amp or headphone to serve them all. I wouldn't know which one to choose. But if I really had to choose 1 amp and 1 headphone that could do all pretty good, it would be the Sennheiser HD650 with a Bottlehead Crack (as I don't have the Glenn OTL)


 
 Or the Decware CSP2+ with the HD650's....I suspect the CSP2+ and the Crack are pretty close to each other.


----------



## Ultrainferno

longbowbbs said:


> Or the Decware CSP2+ with the HD650's....I suspect the CSP2+ and the Crack are pretty close to each other.


 
  
 Except for their price


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Or the Decware CSP2+ with the HD650's....I suspect the CSP2+ and the Crack are pretty close to each other.
> ...


 
 Used gear can be a beautiful thing!


----------



## Silent One

Ahem... _Pre-Owned. _


----------



## Ultrainferno

I do want a CSP2+ one day, such a beautiful amp.
 I got extra discount on my Crack, didn't even pay $200 and a friend of mine built it for free.
 Life is good


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> Ahem... _Pre-Owned. _


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> I do want a CSP2+ one day, such a beautiful amp.
> I got extra discount on my Crack, didn't even pay $200 and a friend of mine built it for free.
> *Life is good*


 
  
 Yeah it is.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

What about csp3? 

Thats another option. And it seems it does use 5u4g and 6922


----------



## Ultrainferno

dubstep girl said:


> What about csp3?
> 
> Thats another option. And it seems it does use 5u4g and 6922


 
  
 You're just looking for a WA2 copy, admit it


----------



## Dubstep Girl

:rolleyes:


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > What about csp3?
> ...


 
 That would be a fun comparison!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I do want a CSP2+ one day, such a beautiful amp.
> I got extra discount on my Crack, didn't even pay $200 and a friend of mine built it for free.
> Life is good


 

 Hey, I got one of those. And it was modded by none other than Glenn himself. Unfortunately it is 110v only. 
  
 Glenn's Mod of my CSP2+. He even updated the headphone jack to a really good one. His mods make this CSP2+ vibrant and alive and it sounds much better, too. Ahhhhh.
  


  
 Using the 596 with a GlennAdapter.


----------



## longbowbbs

There is barely any room left to put it back in the case!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359 Glenn CSP2!


----------



## Clayton SF

That's why Glenn could only use one Sprague cap. One big one. I don't know what's in those two black shrink-wrap thingies.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> That's why Glenn could only use one Sprague cap. One big one. I don't know what's in those two black shrink-wrap thingies.


 
 Belgian cookies!


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> Belgian cookies!


 

 U _*Crack*_ me up, Ultra-


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm gonna need to inspect that then, but send it to Glenn first to switch to 220V


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> That's why Glenn could only use one Sprague cap. One big one. I don't know what's in those two black shrink-wrap thingies.


 

 Those are paper in oil caps  in a metal can that needed to be covered.
 I only use paper in oil coupling caps don"t like the sound of plastic.
 I modded MMs WA22 with V caps and  it sounded like crap to me.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> I'm gonna need to inspect that then, but send it to Glenn first to switch to 220V


 

 I just looked at Clayton's pictures and that transformer has wires for 115/230
 so it can be easily be rewired.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Those are paper in oil caps  in a metal can that needed to be covered.
> I only use paper in oil coupling caps don"t like the sound of plastic.
> *I modded MMs WA22 with V caps and  it sounded like crap to me.*


 
  
 I thought MM love it after the mod.  What you don't like after the mod?


----------



## Silent One

I hope to visit MM in the next few weeks...


----------



## jc9394

going back north again?  have fun...


----------



## Silent One

Gotta a day appointment in Berkeley coming up soon, might as well look in on him.


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> Gotta a day appointment in Berkeley coming up soon, might as well _*look in on him*_.


 
 Look in on him? Is he okay?


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Look in on him? Is he okay?


 
  
 He may very well be. But that's what good neighbors (and former) do, check on each other.


----------



## Xcalibur255

rosgr63 said:


> What's your DAC's output voltage?


 

 The same as yours.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just to make sure my comment was being interpreted right, I have no issue with volume the system will play crazy loud.  After a certain point it just starts to sound strained, mostly in the form of treble sibilance which is true of all systems.  This only happens at volumes I wouldn't normally listen at, and honestly most of it was probably coming from the coupling caps and the new sylvania tubes since the amp was sounding bright in general during that particular period of break-in.


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> He may very well be. But that's what good neighbors (and former) do, check on each other.


 
 Very good. Give him my regards. I've never met him but have had many great conversations with him.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Very good. Give him my regards. I've never met him but have had many great conversations with him.


 
  
 He wants to meet you.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Those are paper in oil caps  in a metal can that needed to be covered.
> I only use paper in oil coupling caps don"t like the sound of plastic.
> I modded MMs WA22 with V caps and  it sounded like crap to me.


 

 How much run time did the V caps have when you listened Glenn?  I know it sounds stupid but the insane high numbers people quote for burn-in on some of these boutique caps seems to be actually true.  The Duelends in my amp are still changing, and compared to what I heard the very first day I got the amp they sound radically different now.  It's hard to believe it is even the same amp.  On day one the 45 amp did not sound as good as the OTL.  Now it sounds much better than the OTL.  I almost want to mail it back to you for a week so you can hear what the amp you built sounds like now.


----------



## Silent One

Xcalibur255, when I had my DAC modified with Low ESR _"Super Caps"_ I spent north of 500 hours before it got itself right. And this was with a fully played-in DAC beforehand.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> How much run time did the V caps have when you listened Glenn?  I know it sounds stupid but the insane high numbers people quote for burn-in on some of these boutique caps seems to be actually true.  The Duelends in my amp are still changing, and compared to what I heard the very first day I got the amp they sound radically different now.  It's hard to believe it is even the same amp.  On day one the 45 amp did not sound as good as the OTL.  Now it sounds much better than the OTL.  I almost want to mail it back to you for a week so you can hear what the amp you built sounds like now.


 

 No burn in they were brand new maybe that is why they didn't sound good.
 I don't know what you paid for the Duelends but $100.00 each for .22uf capacitors is crazy.
 I could have sold MM a new amp for what the 4 capacitors cost.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> I thought MM love it after the mod.  What you don't like after the mod?


 

 Actually MM wanted me to take them out and try to sell them and put something else in.
 But we never got around to doing that


----------



## Xcalibur255

Indeed.  It's funny how much more obvious these things get with each upgrade.  The difference between my CD player and my PC for playback used to be pretty subtle.  I spun a disc quickly to listen on the 45 amp the other day then played the same track on J River on the PC.  Not subtle at all, the CD player sounded really different.  I was surprised at how obvious it was.  I wasn't listening to *hear* a difference either, the purpose was troubleshooting an issue my computer was having.
  
 I'm wondering if my DAC is now the weak link in the system, aside from the source since I'm pretty sure it always will be.  But, it's time to stop making changes for a while and just enjoy the setup.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> No burn in they were brand new maybe that is why they didn't sound good.
> I don't know what you paid for the Duelends but $100.00 each for .22uf capacitors is crazy.
> I could have sold MM a new amp for what the 4 capacitors cost.


 
 PartsConnexion was having a cap sale.  I think it still ended up being 60-something each for them.  Russian K40Y probably sounds 90% as good for 10% of the price but I was still okay with the cost.  If ever there was a time to go all out on something I felt this was it.  Contentment is pretty priceless to an OCD guy like me.


----------



## 2359glenn

Have you tried the #46 tube yet ??


----------



## rosgr63

xcalibur255 said:


> The same as yours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Yes it's the CI, I forgot.
 i was thinking of my Weiss for a minute that has variable output, sorry!


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Have you tried the #46 tube yet ??


 

 Not yet, decided to listen to all the 45s together so I could decide which I like.  I only have the 3 pairs so the tung sol was the last.  Then the 46 and after that I'll just leave whichever sounds best in the amp for a fair while. 
  
 Do you think the 6BY5GA would sound any different from the 6BY5G Glenn?  Is the voltage drop the same?  The G style is surprisingly hard to find but the GA are still rather common.  I need to stock up and see if I can find a pair that doesn't make that whistling sound.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2 gec curved bases are on sale!
Tempting but already have 3 pairs and spent money on other tubes


http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Matched-GEC-A1834-6AS7G-6080-421A-Curved-Brown-Base-f-Darkvoice-OTLs-/331045949743?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4d13e0512f


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Not yet, decided to listen to all the 45s together so I could decide which I like.  I only have the 3 pairs so the tung sol was the last.  Then the 46 and after that I'll just leave whichever sounds best in the amp for a fair while.
> 
> Do you think the 6BY5GA would sound any different from the 6BY5G Glenn?  Is the voltage drop the same?  The G style is surprisingly hard to find but the GA are still rather common.  I need to stock up and see if I can find a pair that doesn't make that whistling sound.


 

 Are you sure it is not the 45s making the sound?
 I will look and see if I have any more 6BY5G sitting around if I do I will send them to you.
 will look tonight.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's hard to tell since they're so close together, but if it is the 45s then every pair has done it.  It sounds like the 17Khz whine that old tube tvs made, you can hear it anywhere in the room.  Just comes and goes at random.  I figured since the 6by5 was a tv damper tube it was the likely suspect.  I have a pair of 6by5ga I can try but I haven't done it yet, I was planning to do the swap when I tried the 46 tubes that way they could both burn in at the same time.


----------



## dminches

DG, is there a difference in the internals of the straight and curved base GEC 6AS7G?


----------



## rosgr63

The straight bases are rarer and supposedly sound better.


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> The straight bases are rarer and supposedly sound better.


 
  
 Most people say its the other way around. I have the straight based ones. Bought them for 17€.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Curved is supposed to be rarer and slightly better.

Both seem to have the exact same internals. I found little difference in sound, maybe the curved are slightly warmer, but might just be placebo. Anyways both excellent tubes, i think theyre basicslly the same, just curved looks nicer and probably rarer too


----------



## dminches

Oh. I thought the curved were the gems. 

Is there any difference between 1834s and 6AS7Gs?

Thanks Stavros.


----------



## dminches

The GECs are perfect in Glenn's OTL with a GZ37. 

I haven't rolled the 6SN7 much.


----------



## Oskari

dminches said:


> Is there any difference between 1834s and 6AS7Gs?


 
  
 A1834 is just the MOV type code.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

A1834/6as7g/cv2523 are the same

Which gz37? The mullard cv378 or the cossor high wycombe version which is supposably better and looks different?


----------



## Xcalibur255

dubstep girl said:


> cossor high wycombe version?


 
 Lovely looking tubes, those.


----------



## Neogeo333

The cossor and maybe the Brimars are hard to come by now. They appear on ebay once a while and then it usually ends with a high price. My only two gz37 from cossor cost me 110usd each. A steal at today's market.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

neogeo333 said:


> The cossor and maybe the Brimars are hard to come by now. They appear on ebay once a while and then it usually ends with a high price. My only two gz37 from cossor cost me 110usd each. A steal at today's market.


 
  
 omg
  
 yeah impossible to find at those prices now, all 300-400+ $
  
 also the GEC U52 is pretty expensive and in the same price range.


----------



## dminches

dubstep girl said:


> A1834/6as7g/cv2523 are the same
> 
> Which gz37? The mullard cv378 or the cossor high wycombe version which is supposably better and looks different?


 
  
 The Mullard CV378.  I don't think I have paid as much as $200 each ever.  Maybe $150, and that was relatively recent.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah i paid about $100 for mine, a regular mullard cv378 (skinny bottle)


----------



## Neogeo333

Yes, just as I thought.  Glenn's OTL definitely improves with a better ac cable.  Just used the Pangea AC-9 from my other amp and the vocals I was referring back as a bit harsh and unrefined has improved.  The hum is also less pronounced.  Cant wait for my AC-9SE cable to arrive.  With close to 20 hours of break-in time it seems things are starting to marinate quite good.


----------



## rosgr63

Apologies , the curved are the rare ones.
  
 Even more rare are the black based ones.
  
 I need to check my stock to see what the differences are structurally.


----------



## Neogeo333

Thought mine were Cossor fat glass gz37, now that I tried to find them, there Zearix.  Anyone know if they are a rebrand of the Cossor?


----------



## rosgr63

Zaerix were traders.
 The tubes look like Cossor.


----------



## Neogeo333

Thanks Stavros.  Gonna save these for my future SET amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

The bases on those tubes are beautiful.


----------



## dminches

Clayton, why are you up at 5:30?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Yah zeaerix is a rebrand, those are the cossor gz37 no doubt.

Im considering purchasing one before they become even harder to find,


----------



## 2359glenn

Stavros
 I can use the WE310A to drive the 300B
 I don't think it will be that different then the C3g It can handle a little less plate current.


----------



## Clayton SF

dminches said:


> Clayton, why are you up at 5:30?


 

 Good question. I don't know. Yesterday I received 4 NOS Raytheon 6CS7 tubes for my CS600 in the mail so maybe I needed to wake them up.


----------



## Ultrainferno

And everyone keeps on talking about Leben in all threads I read. Has to be a conspiracy!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> And everyone keeps on talking about Leben in all threads I read. Has to be a conspiracy!


 

 Speaking of which... did your friend with the 2 Lebens give you one of them yet?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Sold within 2 weeks. Both


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Looks like im buying the used stratus....and possibly a glenn OTL as well....


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Looks like im buying the used stratus....and possibly a glenn OTL as well....


 
  
 Nice...can't wait for your impression/comparison.  When will the Stratus will arrive?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Not sure, waiting to send payment and finish working out the shipping, but shouldnt take too long maybe a week or 2 since he lives overseas i think.

I talked to mr dna too, looks like he can get the upgrades/220v change done in a week or so

So probably in a month itll be ready to go


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Not sure, waiting to send payment and finish working out the shipping, but shouldnt take too long maybe a week or 2 since he lives overseas i think.
> 
> I talked to mr dna too, looks like he can get the upgrades/220v change done in a week or so
> 
> So probably in a month itll be ready to go


 
  
 Nice, just in before my Chicago trip?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Maybe  u said 2 trips so maybe ull be in time by then.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Looks like im buying the used stratus....and possibly a glenn OTL as well....


 
 That's not fair, I am extremely jealous!


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> That's not fair, I am *extremely jealous*!


 
  
 That is a understatement, I'm envy...


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> That's not fair, I am extremely jealous!


 

 Me too. That Stratus looks beautiful in blue.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Stavros
> I can use the WE310A to drive the 300B
> I don't think it will be that different then the C3g It can handle a little less plate current.


 
  
  
 It can also drive 45/2A3/PX4/300B/50/PX25/6A3/VT-52.
  
 We can also use the WE 328A/B which is cheaper and runs at 7.5V.


----------



## 2359glenn

I can put a switch to switch different filament voltage like I did on your last amp.
If they have the same 6 pin base would make it easier.


----------



## rosgr63

They have the same 6pin base, it's the same tube running at different heater voltages.
  
 Remember my Wehrmacht 1944 pair?


----------



## 2359glenn

When I build you this amp you will have to send me a pair to work with.
I would like to know how good these tubes sound????
Never worked with them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

clayton sf said:


> Me too. That Stratus looks beautiful in blue.


 
 I seriously considered doing the main chassis of my amp in a color like blue, but the challenge becomes getting the other parts to match in a way that looks like they all belong together when assembled.  Ultimately the black/chrome look was the safest route. 
  
 The reason it has a chrome volume knob is because I bought 3 different black ones and none of them was the same color black as the chassis despite everything being the same spec anodized aluminum. 
  
 Since Donald is a manufacturer he can spec exactly what he wants, hence a lovely looking blue amp.


----------



## jc9394

I love the DNA blue, totally missed my Sonnet.  One of these days, I will get a Stratus.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

how good was sonnett vs, WA22?


----------



## jc9394

Very very good with HD800 but not as good with low impedance phones like AT but don't have much rolling options.

Fast and punchy with authority. Definitely more bass than WA22 but not as liquidity with mids, that is when I use metal base GZ34 with supertube.


----------



## Clayton SF

Some nice photos of the GlennAmpOTL and the Decware Taboo using Glenn's adapter on a 596 tube in the background.


----------



## wotts

Have to love that big Russian rectifier.


----------



## john57

That Russian rectifier has a huge heater almost as thick like a pencil. Really warms the room when I tried it.


----------



## Silent One

As _ruff-n-stuff _as moving companies are, it wouldn't surprise me if that was the only un-broken tube left in my box.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_ I better go check..._


----------



## Frank I

Giys here is my review of the omega 3T for anyone looking to hook up and efficient speaker with you low wattage tube or solid state ampsOmega 3T Single-Driver Monitors Review


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like im buying the used stratus....and possibly a glenn OTL as well....
> ...


 
 A true *embarrassment *of Tube amp riches! I'll have to drop in when I am in Chicago too...


----------



## magiccabbage

Looks like she will have to put the Roast in the oven to feed ye all.


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> Looks like she will have to put the Roast in the oven to feed ye all.


 
 We're in Chicago... Giordano's Pizza please!


----------



## jc9394

longbowbbs said:


> We're in Chicago... Giordano's Pizza please!


 
  
  
 Yeah, save me at least two slices.


----------



## Skylab

Giordano's stuffed spinach pizza...YUM


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I was about to send the money for the stratus, but now im not sure. Itll cost almost the same as a new one to do paypal fees, shipping to and back and forth, only saving me a month or 2 in time.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

skylab said:


> Giordano's stuffed spinach pizza...YUM




Yes!


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> I was about to send the money for the stratus, but now im not sure. Itll cost almost the same as a new one to do paypal fees, shipping to and back and forth, only saving me a month or 2 in time.


 
 wait and get a new one or at least wait to see how good Glenn's OTL first...  my 2 cents


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah i do wanna hear the glenn otl first.
any eta yet?


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> We're in Chicago... Giordano's Pizza please!


 
 Not a Pizza guy, not even when i was in Rome. I can feel the backlash already.


----------



## magiccabbage

Although this thing does look more like a cake. the real deal!


----------



## longbowbbs

dubstep girl said:


> skylab said:
> 
> 
> > Giordano's stuffed spinach pizza...YUM
> ...


----------



## magiccabbage

good god ye Chicago people know how to do things right ! This thing is a monster!!


----------



## dminches

Sorry folks, but this is pizza


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> yeah i do wanna hear the glenn otl first.
> any eta yet?


 
  
 Think it will be next week...


----------



## GrindingThud

Chicago.....I'm a Luke's Italian Beef fan:


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> Sorry folks, but this is pizza


 
  
 You are correct but once I tried the Giordano Pizza in Chicago, all other pizza can't compare.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Sorry folks, but this is pizza


 
  
  


jc9394 said:


> You are correct but once I tried the Giordano Pizza in Chicago, all other pizza can't compare.


 
  
 I have to agree with David we are both ex New Yorkers  and this is the best pizza
 you can add all the toppings to this pizza if you like to. I have traveled all over the
 country in my last job and tasted allot of pizza and this was still the best


----------



## GrindingThud

Pizza wars........incoming.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> yeah i do wanna hear the glenn otl first.
> any eta yet?


 

 Hope to finish it and ship next week. I usually do a burn in for a couple of days let it run for 24hrs a couple of days with a FM tuner hooked to it.
 Worst case I will ship at the end of the week.


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> good god ye Chicago people know how to do things right ! This thing is a monster!!


 
 When you order it there is a 1 hour wait. It takes that long in the oven. Worth it though. 1 Piece is enough for me.


----------



## Frank I

2359glenn said:


> I have to agree with David we are both ex New Yorkers  and this is the best pizza
> you can add all the toppings to this pizza if you like to. I have traveled all over the
> country in my last job and tasted allot of pizza and this was still the best


 
 Then you need to try Spumoni gardens in Brooklyn and Patsy on 166 street in NYC and also the legendary Totono Pizza on Neptune Ave in Coney Island. Those are considered the three best pizza restaurants in NYC and really hard to beat. If I get to Chicago I will try that but if you never tried the NYC restaurants above I suggest you give them a whirl. Two of them are ussing Coal stoves to make the pizza and Frank Sinatra used to have Patys pizza flown to Palm Springs when he was alive. Three terrific pies. Spumoni Gardens makes the best Sicilian Pie and the other two make the best round pies in the City.
  Patsy's Pizza


----------



## jc9394

Been to Spumoni on 86th few times, I do like their pizza and it is definitely more original than Chicago's but for some reason I just love the deep dish pizza.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Hope to finish it and ship next week. I usually do a burn in for a couple of days let it run for 24hrs a couple of days with a FM tuner hooked to it.
> Worst case I will ship at the end of the week.


 
  
 Woohoo, DG better get those new tubes you ordered polished up.  I need to know how the WE422A and 3DG4 compares using GEC 6AS7G (do I keep it or get the 6336).


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> Been to Spumoni on 86th few times, I do like their pizza and it is definitely more original than Chicago's but for some reason I just love the deep dish pizza.


 
 Check out the other two also. They are all legendary in NY and I miss being there regularly. I will hit one of them on the way back from the NY meet probably Spumoni Gardens or maybe Totoo. When I go up to shoo the regionals in the bronx I will fog to Patsy after cross country meet.  Deep Dish is also terrific and definitely a Chicago pizza. I will try that place you recommended if I get to Chicago. I also need recommendations for Boston so i know where to go when I am up there.


----------



## jc9394

Boston's pizza are mostly NY style, I like pizzeria Regina in North End.

Since we are talking food, for some reason Chicago steaks are much better than Boston. Dry Aged or not.


----------



## longbowbbs

Being a universal pizza fan, I do also miss classic New York pizza!


----------



## Clayton SF

dminches said:


> Sorry folks, but this is pizza


 

 That's it all right!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Need to stop checking this thread before lunch. 
  
 You guys really don't know how good you have it.  You know what kinds of great pizza we have here in South Dakota?  Pizza Hut.... Dominos...... the local Walmart has a Papa Johns......


----------



## magiccabbage

xcalibur255 said:


> Need to stop checking this thread before lunch.
> 
> You guys really don't know how good you have it.  You know what kinds of great pizza we have here in South Dakota?  Pizza Hut.... Dominos...... the local Walmart has a Papa Johns......


 
 Ha ha Same her in Portlaoise!  Nothing but dirt.


----------



## Clayton SF

xcalibur255 said:


> Need to stop checking this thread before lunch.
> 
> You guys really don't know how good you have it.  You know what kinds of great pizza we have here in South Dakota?  Pizza Hut.... Dominos...... the local Walmart has a Papa Johns......


 

 Those aren't bad at all at 11PM after more than few beers.


----------



## jc9394

Papa John's not that bad, I do call them up once a while.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Those aren't bad at all at 11PM after more than few beers.




Or a hangover cold pizza breakfast...love them during the college years.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Or a hangover cold pizza breakfast...love them during the college years.




+1

Or driving to dennys with friends on a hungover sunday morning


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> dminches said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry folks, but this is pizza
> ...


 
  
  
 +2 On NY Cheese Pizza
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, having lived for a time in B'k'lyn. And I had Giordano's. Also, I think simple is best - single topping (cheese) or fewest toppings as possible. Same with gourmet ice-cream for me, a single selection in flavor can soar in taste. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There's also a sleeper in New Haven, CT... _who knew?! _




  
 Lunch is an hour away. Y'all got me starvin' for pizza and lunch will consist of a Tuna Melt.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> Or driving to dennys with friends on a hungover sunday morning


 
  
 No driving for me, I go to NU which is pretty much in the city.  we used to stumble to IHOP, which is around half an mile away.  good old times...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> Hope to finish it and ship next week. I usually do a burn in for a couple of days let it run for 24hrs a couple of days with a FM tuner hooked to it.
> Worst case I will ship at the end of the week.




Ah ok.

Btw for tube rolling, i forgot, u said nos 5u4g is ok right (just less current?) ? Just the sophia would get cooked pretty fast and the eml possibly as well right?


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> +1 On NY Cheese Pizza
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 As long as not the pizza with Asian topping, that is good for me.  Tried a pizza place in LA that they have Asian toppings, never goes back again.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Need to stop checking this thread before lunch.
> 
> You guys really don't know how good you have it.  You know what kinds of great pizza we have here in South Dakota?  Pizza Hut.... Dominos...... the local Walmart has a Papa Johns......


 
 There is nothing good here in North Carolina ether the same places you mentioned
 Unless you want fried chicken    Wow about Fried chicken Gizzards   or fried chicken livers.
 This is what is to eat here I always give the sales people from New York a hard time for not bringing
 down good pizza how about a hot pastrami sandwich on rye. Dam I hate you David.


----------



## GrindingThud

Ooo, I'm up that way often to visit my parents.....where's it sleeping at?

Nothing here in southern Maryland either.....except this one Greek pizza place that it pretty good, but nothing like NY.

The sammies over in East Elmhurst on the island rule.



silent one said:


> There's also a sleeper in New Haven, CT... _who knew?! _:wink_face:


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> Need to stop checking this thread before lunch.
> 
> You guys really don't know how good you have it.  You know what kinds of great pizza we have here in South Dakota?  Pizza Hut.... Dominos...... the local Walmart has a Papa Johns......


 
  
 Just on Head-Fi meets alone, we need to find a way to bust you outta South Dakota! Then feed you.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> There is nothing good here in North Carolina ether the same places you mentioned
> Unless you want fried chicken    Wow about Fried chicken Gizzards   or fried chicken livers.
> This is what is to eat here I always give the sales people from New York a hard time for not bringing
> down good pizza how about a hot pastrami sandwich on rye. Dam I hate you David.


 
  
 Kind of like NOLA, first time I saw that on the menu and think I was back in HK.
  
 New York deli, that is definitely the best.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> Ah ok.
> 
> Btw for tube rolling, i forgot, u said nos 5u4g is ok right (just less current?) ? Just the sophia would get cooked pretty fast and the eml possibly as well right?


 

 IT will be maxing out a 5U4G I usually use it with the 3DG4 and I will supply a couple with the amp
  Or the GZ37  I never had the WE422A but it looks like a great tube for the amp. The 596 should handle it OK.
  
 Bur if you put in 6336 output tubes only use the 3DG4 , 5AU4 , GZ37 , or the WE422A they can handle the extra current.


----------



## Silent One

grindingthud said:


> Ooo, I'm up that way often to visit my parents.....where's it sleeping at?
> 
> Nothing here in southern Maryland either.....except this one Greek pizza place that it pretty good, but nothing like NY.
> 
> The sammies over in East Elmhurst on the island rule.


 
  






 No idea... will have to play detective later today. I spent the week in North Branford on biz one June (many moons back). Had never been to CT before. On a warm rainy night, I took a cab into New Haven and tripped over the joint. I heard it was famous. And found their Cheese Pizza to be yum-o!


----------



## dminches

xcalibur255 said:


> Need to stop checking this thread before lunch.
> 
> You guys really don't know how good you have it.  You know what kinds of great pizza we have here in South Dakota?  Pizza Hut.... Dominos...... the local Walmart has a Papa Johns......


 
  
 Tyrell, I feel your pain.  If all we had was dominos or Papa Johns I would never eat pizza.
  
 BTW, I love deep dish too, but every time I travel to NY and pass through Penn Station I get a slice.


----------



## 2359glenn

grindingthud said:


> Ooo, I'm up that way often to visit my parents.....where's it sleeping at?
> 
> Nothing here in southern Maryland either.....except this one Greek pizza place that it pretty good, but nothing like NY.
> 
> The sammies over in East Elmhurst on the island rule.


 

 We just have to go as far north as New Jersey to get fantastic pizza.


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> Tyrell, I feel your pain.  If all we had was dominos or Papa Johns I would never eat pizza.
> 
> BTW, I love deep dish too, but every time I travel to NY and pass through Penn Station I get a slice.


 
  
  
 Which place in Penn?  I usually take a train to NY.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> IT will be maxing out a 5U4G I usually use it with the 3DG4 and I will supply a couple with the amp
> Or the GZ37  I never had the WE422A but it looks like a great tube for the amp. The 596 should handle it OK.
> 
> Bur if you put in 6336 output tubes only use the 3DG4 , 5AU4 , GZ37 , or the WE422A they can handle the extra current.




Ah ok. What about gz34 u said those are ok right?


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn. So you think good food in NC is scarce?
 Well the San Francisco Food Truck scene can be quite eclectic.
 Why today the _*Arki Truck (Architects Kitchen)*_ is serving up fried chicken and donuts from 11AM-2PM.
 I wish they served pickled beets.


----------



## dminches

I don't even know the name but it right next to the Krispy Creme stand adjacent to the main Amtrak waiting area with the big board.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Lucky for me I have simple tastes.  I probably wouldn't know good food if I was eating it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Clayton...........!
  
 I don't think I've ever met a piece of fried chicken I didn't like.  It's a miracle I haven't sprouted feathers the way I eat chicken.


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> I don't even know the name but it right next to the Krispy Creme stand adjacent to the main Amtrak waiting area with the big board.


 
  
 I know which one, I get a slice from them few times.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> As long as not the pizza with Asian topping, that is good for me.  Tried a pizza place in LA that they have Asian toppings, never goes back again.


 
  





 You sought great pizza in Cali? Wrong adventure! "California Adventure" is a Disney theme park.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> You sought great pizza in Cali? Wrong adventure! "California Adventure" is a Disney theme park.


 
  
 You got that right, stumble on to Napa Rose? in Disney earlier this year and it is the best dinner I had for the whole week.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> Ah ok. What about gz34 u said those are ok right?


 

 Yea the GZ34 will be OK it is a powerful little tube


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Yea the GZ34 will be OK it is a powerful little tube


 
  
  
 Metal base GZ34, now I need to get a bigger tea tin.


----------



## GrindingThud

xcalibur255 said:


> I don't think I've ever met a piece of fried chicken I didn't like.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> You got that right, stumble on to Napa Rose? in Disney earlier this year and it is the best dinner I had for the whole week.


 
  
 I'll have to check it out! Was at the park on Wednesday but had lunch outside. And 2 hours later put down a 63 miler on the bike riding along the ocean. Burning every single calorie
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I took in at lunch.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Metal base GZ34, now I need to get a bigger tea tin.


 
  
 When I save up for audio purchases, I can't afford a bigger tea tin. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I use a lot of little ones. From my Jasmine Pearls consumption.


----------



## Clayton SF

Chicken and Waffles?
 Ever heard of this place?_* Roscoe's*_
 I used to work with a woman who claimed she lived for this place. Where is she now?


----------



## GrindingThud

I think my heart just stopped.....


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Chicken and Waffles?
> Ever heard of this place?_* Roscoe's*_
> I used to work with a woman who claimed she lived for this place. Where is she now?


 
  
 Long time customer, Sunset & Gower - Hollywood.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, '2359glenn|studio' thread, I no longer want my sandwich.




  
 I have a box filled with about 60 cheap 12AX7 tubes. If I could just parlay those into a great pizza...


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Long time customer, Sunset & Gower - Hollywood.


 
  
 I will give it a try next time in LA...


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> I will give it a try next time in LA...


 
 Great! My friend Alisha says it is the best. Of course I had never heard of fried chicken and waffles on the same plate until she mentioned it. We always talk about food at work and it is usually while we are eating lunch.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Great! My friend Alisha says it is the best. Of course I had never heard of fried chicken and waffles on the same plate until she mentioned it. We always talk about food at work and it is usually while we are eating lunch.


 
  
  
 Funny thing is the first time I heard and have it is while I was in Japan few years back...it is fairly popular there for a while.


----------



## Xcalibur255

grindingthud said:


>


 

 LOL.  Good catch!  I tried those and thought they were gross.


----------



## Xcalibur255

silent one said:


> Thanks, '2359glenn|studio' thread, I no longer want my sandwich.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Why 60 cheap 12AX7 tubes?


----------



## jc9394

With all the pizza talk, going to get a pie on a semi decent place. NY style.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am putting Glenn's RK60 adapters to work in the Cary SLI-80.

  

  

  

  
  I ordered 3 and one has a broken external connector. The other two look like they had never been out of their original box's since they were shipped from the factory!
  
 We'll see how they sound over the next few weeks.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> With all the pizza talk, going to get a pie on a semi decent place. NY style.


 






 _envy..._
  
  





 no need for me to fret, it's Fish Friday in LA and for din-din gonna get some deep-fried action!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nice !


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> Why 60 cheap 12AX7 tubes?


 
  
 Inherited a box of some 150-200 tubes, a wide variety of glass. Even four '80s' but one tested poorly. Might even have a '52' or so. There's a handful of notables I recognize but nuthin' I'd currently use. Most of the collection is pedestrian ham radio offerings.


----------



## Eee Pee

xcalibur255 said:


> LOL.  Good catch!  I tried those and thought they were gross.


 
  
 Totally.
  
 The Sriracha were great and the Cheesy Garlic Bread were best.


----------



## Ultrainferno

longbowbbs said:


> I am putting Glenn's RK60 adapters to work in the Cary SLI-80.
> 
> I ordered 3 and one has a broken external connector. The other two look like they had never been out of their original box's since they were shipped from the factory!
> 
> We'll see how they sound over the next few weeks.


 
   
Do keep us posted, it's one of my fav rectifiers!


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I am putting Glenn's RK60 adapters to work in the Cary SLI-80.
> ...


 
 Will do. So far so good.


----------



## Clayton SF

Okay, I can't find any more RK-60s and last month there were more than 40 available at $9 each. Who bought them all?


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Okay, I can't find any more RK-60s and last month there were more than 40 available at $9 each. Who bought them all?


 
  
 I still have sources


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> I still have sources




Hook me up too, I need a pair to test it out on WA5LE and Glenn's OTL.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Hook me up too, I need a pair to test it out on WA5LE and Glenn's OTL.


 
  
 +1


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'll send Clayton the info, I'm 110% busy for the moment. so maybe he can take over if he's interested.
 RK60 prices have already gone up though


----------



## Dubstep Girl

how much up? i thought they where still considered an obsolete tube/poor mans 596?


----------



## Clayton SF

They were very cheap but I think someone is monitoring this thread and realizes the frenzy that Glenn brings about when he discovers an unknown NOS tube. In September 2011, the 596 was $8-$18. Now it's going for $200. The RK-60 was going for $9 around that time as well and now I can't find any. Or at least my original sources are dry. A few months ago before Ultra- really started to post that he preferred the RK-60 over the 596, the RK-60 was in large supply. Now they are hard to find. Someone is hoarding.


----------



## jc9394

Let me know Ckayton, if you are busy and the price is not crazy high. I can buy a brunch and sell it back at cost.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Let me know Ckayton, if you are busy and the price is not crazy high. I can buy a brunch and sell it back at cost.


 

 I am pretty busy as well. So why don't you hook up with Ultra- on his sources and see what you can find. I got my supply of RK-60s back in 2011 so I really have what I need. Thanks, though.
  
 Ultra-, even though you are running at 110%, make time for beer.


----------



## jc9394

Cool, Ultra can you please PM me the info if you don't mind. TIA


----------



## john57

That is a bit of a shame since Glenn has more of a approach to save money for users and he keeps his total cost low. Those "investment hoarders" do not need that many tubes themselves and they still would need adapters to be built for whatever high price amps with high profit margins that can be made if that is their intention.


----------



## Ultrainferno

jc9394 said:


> Cool, Ultra can you please PM me the info if you don't mind. TIA


 
  
 Alright, over the next few days!


----------



## dminches

At the Philly head meet.


----------



## 2359glenn

Just don't post what you are eating in Philly


----------



## dminches

They brought in cheesesteaks. I went out and got soup and quiche.


----------



## Clayton SF

dminches, soup and quiche--now that's class.
 Very nice picture of your GlennAmp.
 Now I am hungry for both the GlennSound and some good food.


----------



## jc9394

Clayton, there are plenty of good food close to where you live. I missed SF already.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

dminches said:


> At the Philly head meet.


 
  
 wow looks better in person!!!
  
 what 6sn7 is that?


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> They brought in cheesesteaks. I went out and got soup and quiche.


 

 I knew it I lived in PA for a few years lots of good food there.


----------



## jc9394

Philly cheesesteak...  yum I need to stay away these threads...


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> Okay, I can't find any more RK-60s and last month there were more than 40 available at $9 each. Who bought them all?


 
 I bought 3 and 1 was defective. The other two are working nicely in the SLI-80.


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> I bought 3 and 1 was defective. The other two are working nicely in the SLI-80.


 

 Return the defective one. I had to return one as well. Glenn told me that those top caps come off easily because of their age but if you have glass glue and soldering skills, you can reattach them. I have none of those skills so I returned them. The seller sent me a new one in exchange.


----------



## 2359glenn

JC Here are some pictures of your amp
 The only difference from David's amp is the chokes are made by a different company and are a different shape same value though.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nice!!


----------



## dminches

dubstep girl said:


> wow looks better in person!!!
> 
> what 6sn7 is that?


 
  
 Sylvania 6SN7 WGT


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> JC Here are some pictures of your amp
> The only difference from David's amp is the chokes are made by a different company and are a different shape same value though.




Very nice...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Very nice Glenn. Are you using new volume control knobs?


----------



## Clayton SF

The control knobs look like mine!


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I bought 3 and 1 was defective. The other two are working nicely in the SLI-80.
> ...


 
 I doubt I could re-solder this...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

what kinda amp is that?


----------



## kazsud

jc9394 said:


> Papa John's not that bad, I do call them up once a while.




You mean Poopa John's


----------



## kazsud

clayton sf said:


> The control knobs look like mine!




Why do you have a pair?


----------



## Clayton SF

dubstep girl said:


> what kinda amp is that?


 

 They are Glenn's 5U4G / #81 / C3g / 300B mono blocks.


----------



## longbowbbs

Mono Amps...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oh those


----------



## kazsud

Today was a good day. I heard the Glenn OTL, WA5, WA234 & GSX MKII


----------



## Clayton SF

OMG! How did you like the WA234?


----------



## kazsud

clayton sf said:


> OMG! How did you like the WA234?




First listen 
Was w/ the Abyss which I didn't really feel any love for.


Second listen 
I heard someone ask Jack to put the 300Bs in so I tried again and was much better but wasn't wowed.

Third listen
was w/ my HD800s and I think the 300Bs were still in. Holy cow!! Very euphoric and grand w/ some kind of wow factor I haven't experienced before. 

Fourth listen
The LCD-X we're hooked up and sounded pretty good but don't think it had the right tubes to turn on the wow factor.


----------



## Frank I

hew used the Royal Princess 300B which i liked much more than the 45 he had in there. I am going to ask George Lenz to bring some goodies ti the NY meet


----------



## Clayton SF

The wow factor was 1:4 for a pair of $15,900 monos? Tsk tsk tsk.
 I see that Jack has settled on $15.9K for those monos. Eek!
 Well as I child I used to tape posters of the Lamborghini Countach on my bedroom walls.
 The same it will be with the WA234 -- delegated as a screen saver only.


----------



## Frank I

clayton sf said:


> The wow factor was 1:4 for a pair of $15,900 monos? Tsk tsk tsk.
> I see that Jack has settled on $15.9K for those monos. Eek!
> Well as I child I used to tape posters of the Lamborghini Countach on my bedroom walls.
> The same it will be with the WA234 -- delegated as a screen saver only.


 
 then add the bette rubes in there and we were at about 16900 or 17k for the 300B add the 2a3 and the 45 you need also and were taking about 19K but if you looking for the ultimate amp and can write the check then otds for you buddy.


----------



## Xcalibur255

So how were people's reactions to Glenn's amp at the meet?  Sort of wish I could have other people hear my amp too, it's good to have a frame of reference.


----------



## Frank I

I liked it and David could fill you in on more of what people were saying about Glenn amp. Great value for sure and sounded excellent. You should get to a meet and v=bring your amp for people to hear. I lugged my WA5 today and had plenty of compliments.


----------



## dminches

When I told people what it cost they thought I was kidding. Someone felt it sounded like a 1500 amp. It also sounds gregarious with the new Audez'e LCD-x or whatever it is called.


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> So how were people's reactions to Glenn's amp at the meet?  Sort of wish I could have other people hear my amp too, it's good to have a frame of reference.


 
  






 I'd like to hear your amp, too! Just not in a SD winter...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

glenn amp impressions please!


----------



## Frank I

DG Just BUY BUY BUY


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> The control knobs look like mine!


 
  
 NVM, I should have catchup before asking question.


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> DG Just BUY BUY BUY


 

 X2...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

if i like it i will. its half the price of wa2


----------



## kazsud

The WA5 was my favorite 

I liked the Glenn OTL a lot but don't think the right tubes were in it for my HD800s.


----------



## Xcalibur255

silent one said:


> I'd like to hear your amp, too! Just not in a SD winter...


 

 I see you found the silver lining......
  
 These tube amps are great for keeping the room warm in the winter I must say.  Between future monoblocks and the plasma tv I should be covered until we swing below 0.


----------



## wolfetan44

Back to pizza discussion  : Clayton, you gotta come here, Tony's Pizza in Little Italy:


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> I see you found the silver lining......
> 
> These tube amps are great for keeping the room warm in the winter I must say.  Between future monoblocks and the plasma tv I should be covered until we swing below 0.


 
  





 Still... we gotta get you up outta there for a weekend. Maybe I can pull off a Twin Cities meet with the help of two established Michiganders. And see if we couldn't get you over there.


----------



## Clayton SF

wolfetan44 said:


> Back to pizza discussion
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wow! What was the occasion? Well, I don't think anyone needs a special occasion to enjoy good pizza in Little Italy!


----------



## jc9394

kazsud said:


> The WA5 was my favorite
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What tubes it have?
  
 I like the WA5LE but still think it is lacking on something that I can't pinpoint on.  Next and probably final amp purchase (I said that when I bought the WA22) will be Glenn's SET with WE422A, C3g, and 300B.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> What tubes it have?
> 
> I like the WA5LE but still think it is lacking on something that I can't pinpoint on.  Next and probably final amp purchase (I said that when I bought the WA22) will be Glenn's SET with WE422A, C3g, and 300B.


 
  
 think Glenn can make a SET 2A3 with 5U4G/422A? maybe c3g as well?


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey all.
 I'm listening to Blade Runner on red vinyl on my Glenn Amp Monos.
 I'm so impressed again. I'm floating. I better watch out for those Replicants.


----------



## Silent One

Final amp purchase? You're 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 killing me!


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> think Glenn can make a SET 2A3 with 5U4G/422A? maybe c3g as well?


 
  
 Most likely, I did ask for 45 before but decided on 300B since I have them with WA5LE already.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Hey all.
> I'm listening to Blade Runner on red vinyl on my Glenn Amp Monos.
> I'm so impressed again. I'm floating. I better watch out for those Replicants.


 
  
 Sweet table...


----------



## wolfetan44

clayton sf said:


> wolfetan44 said:
> 
> 
> > Back to pizza discussion
> ...


 
 No occasion
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just spent a day in the city


----------



## Xcalibur255

silent one said:


> Still... we gotta get you up outta there for a weekend. Maybe I can pull off a Twin Cities meet with the help of two established Michiganders. And see if we couldn't get you over there.


 

 Maybe.  It's not that I can't make it, I just really don't care for traveling.  Always been that way for some reason.  I'm not very far from RMAF really but I can't convince myself to go.  I have a friend in the Twin Cities, so there is some incentive there I guess.


----------



## dminches

clayton sf said:


> Hey all.
> I'm listening to Blade Runner on red vinyl on my Glenn Amp Monos.
> I'm so impressed again. I'm floating. I better watch out for those Replicants.




I need to get a copy of that record. 

Maybe all of you who are playing amp du jour should just get a turntable!


----------



## Clayton SF

wolfetan44 said:


> No occasion
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 And what a great day it was, wasn't it? Warm and clear. I should go to Little Italy more often. Did you go to _*Stella Pastry & Cafe*_ for desserts? If you didn't, you should the next time you're in SF.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Final amp purchase? You're
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I need to save up for your Shindo.


----------



## dminches

JC, what 300Bs are you using?


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> And what a great day it was, wasn't it? Warm and clear. I should go to Little Italy more often. Did you go to _*Stella Pastry & Cafe*_ for desserts? If you didn't, you should the next time you're in SF.


 

 I really missed SF now, was there in April.


----------



## wolfetan44

clayton sf said:


> wolfetan44 said:
> 
> 
> > No occasion
> ...


 
 As a matter of fact, we did
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My mom got a canoli, I didn't get anything
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We then went to City Lights, then to Vital Tea Leaf, Music Lovers, and Bronstein. Fun day!


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> JC, what 300Bs are you using?


 

 Sophia mesh, waiting for the WE300B reissue or the Takatsuki 300B when I visit Japan.  Was thinking to get the EML but decided to wait.


----------



## Xcalibur255

45 Update - I'm still trying to determine if the DT880s don't sound good on the amp because they are 600 ohm or because they are Beyers.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  The OTL naturally suits these types of phones with some added midbass and a mellow upper mid/lower treble range.  The 45 is very linear in the bass region and fairly lit up throughout the upper registers (not bright, just lively) so the thin sounding DT880 just becomes too top heavy.  The sibilance is pretty unbearable at anything but low volumes too.  Really, though, it seems like more than that, the overall sound is just sort of anemic.  I'm not sure if I'm barking up the right tree with the impedance match theory though, since SS amps often have an output impedance of less than 1 ohm and people use these and HD800s with success all the time.  I'd like to solve this mystery just for the sake of knowing.
  
 In fairness I can switch the DT880s over to the OTL and I'm still not impressed at all.  It sounds less skeletal but still sibilant and thin overall.  The LCD-2/45 combo is just so much better, if it weren't for the wonky imaging the LCDs are so infamous for this would be pretty close to the perfect sound for me.
  
 The amp seems to like 120 ohms just fine.  I have few cans to try other than the LCD-2 and DT880 so I'm scraping the barrel.  These are my Yuin G1A clip-ons, with a bad right driver to boot.  Sounds nice anyway, very open and balanced.  These are prone to sibilance but I'm not getting any here.


----------



## longbowbbs

xcalibur255 said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > Still... we gotta get you up outta there for a weekend. Maybe I can pull off a Twin Cities meet with the help of two established Michiganders. And see if we couldn't get you over there.
> ...


 
 I am only 3 hours from the Twin Cities and I have relatives there...Easy to make that trip.


----------



## Xcalibur255

jc9394 said:


> Sophia mesh, waiting for the WE300B reissue or the Takatsuki 300B when I visit Japan.  Was thinking to get the EML but decided to wait.


 
  
 Have you tried the Carbon Plate Sophia (or Full Music)?  This is what I'm thinking of trying next year when I join the Glenn 300B club.


----------



## Clayton SF

wolfetan44 said:


> As a matter of fact, we did
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You did the City then! I really like the creaky sounds of the floorboards when exploring City Lights. And the basement--you can get lost in there along with your cannoli (or in your case--no cannoli).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Sophia mesh, waiting for the WE300B reissue or the Takatsuki 300B when I visit Japan.  Was thinking to get the EML but decided to wait.


 
  
 what about these, is WA5LE compatible?
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-GEC-PX25-DHT-triode-MADE-IN-ENGLAND-Same-As-Western-Electric-300B-/221305594924?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I need to save up for your Shindo.


 
  
 I've grown so accustomed to the Sansui & Pigtails, I can now return my attention to seeing more live performances. More amp purchases can wait. Maybe I'll find a more daring Glenn in 2014... wanna get _wicked._


----------



## jc9394

xcalibur255 said:


> Have you tried the Carbon Plate Sophia (or Full Music)?  This is what I'm thinking of trying next year when I join the Glenn 300B club.


 
 Nope, will definitely like to try.
  


dubstep girl said:


> what about these, is WA5LE compatible?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-GEC-PX25-DHT-triode-MADE-IN-ENGLAND-Same-As-Western-Electric-300B-/221305594924?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276


 
  
 You are killing me.


silent one said:


> I've grown so accustomed to the Sansui & Pigtails, I can now return my attention to seeing more live performances. More amp purchases can wait. Maybe I'll find a more daring Glenn in 2014... wanna get _wicked._


 
 Nothing beats live.


----------



## wolfetan44

clayton sf said:


> wolfetan44 said:
> 
> 
> > As a matter of fact, we did
> ...


 
 Haha. I was upstairs reading Beat poetry
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Reminding myself now, I should've gotten a Beat poetry book..


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> Maybe.  It's not that I can't make it, I just really don't care for traveling.  Always been that way for some reason.  I'm not very far from RMAF really but I can't convince myself to go.  I have a friend in the Twin Cities, so there is some incentive there I guess.


 
  
 Travel... I remember, hence the attempt @ Minneapolis. So by the time you could change your mind, you'd already be there. Also, I aim to see one of my dealers, another friend that's local and invite yet another member just up the river.
  
 It'd be a small and intimate meet to be sure. But I've worked my share of CES, can't hear a thing.... "Eh?!" I'm gonna hear your '45' by hook or crook!


----------



## Clayton SF

wolfetan44 said:


> Haha. I was upstairs reading Beat poetry
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The last book I bought at City Lights was _*Moby-Dick, The Whale*_. A very long book. Some find it unbearable to read. I don't. I like nautical stories. Being from Hawaii anything dealing with the ocean is of interest to me.


----------



## jc9394

xcalibur255 said:


> Maybe.  It's not that I can't make it, I just really don't care for traveling.  Always been that way for some reason.  I'm not very far from RMAF really but I can't convince myself to go.  I have a friend in the Twin Cities, so there is some incentive there I guess.


 
  
 You will hate my job, I travel about 10-15 times per year now.  Was about 50% before.


----------



## wolfetan44

clayton sf said:


> wolfetan44 said:
> 
> 
> > Haha. I was upstairs reading Beat poetry
> ...


 
 Sweet! We should get on topic now, haha


----------



## Clayton SF

wolfetan44 said:


> Sweet! We should get on topic now, haha


 
 Yep.


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> The last book I bought at City Lights was _*Moby-Dick, The Whale*_. A very long book. Some find it unbearable to read. I don't. I like nautical stories. Being from Hawaii anything dealing with the ocean is of interest to me.


 
 one of my favs, have you read "blood meridian or the evening redness in the west" by Cormac McCarthy. He was hugely influenced by moby dick. Lots of similarities. 
  
“They were watching, out there past men's knowing, where stars are drowning and whales ferry their vast souls through the black and seamless sea.”


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> if i like it i will. its half the price of wa2


 
 What? are you serious?? did you mean WA5?


----------



## Ultrainferno

She means the Glenn OTL


----------



## GrindingThud

I'm contemplating the 2359OTL also as a move up from my WA3(mod). I'd like to be able to run the 6528 and 6336 tubes.


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> She means the Glenn OTL


 
 yes, but does she mean the Glenn otl is half the price of the WA2 or the WA5? If its WA2 then  - - WOW! I'm interested, very interested.


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> yes, but does she mean the Glenn otl is half the price of the WA2 or the WA5? If its WA2 then  - - WOW! I'm interested, very interested.


 

 You read it right.  It is half of WA2.


----------



## Ultrainferno

WA2 I presume


----------



## magiccabbage

Ok i want a glenn amp now. I presume the OTL is only for high impedance cans.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Well that's what OTL is for


----------



## Clayton SF

Although I have to say that my low impedance 25 ohms Denon D7000 sound fantastic on his OTL.


----------



## dminches

And my LCD-3s sound great on it too.  I usually pair the LCD-3s with the Leben, but they sound really nice in the OTL.


----------



## Ultrainferno

What do you think? Scratch the leben plans and get an OTL? Is it really that good with planars?


----------



## magiccabbage

dminches said:


> And my LCD-3s sound great on it too.  I usually pair the LCD-3s with the Leben, but they sound really nice in the OTL.


 
 Really? if that is true and if dubstepgirl can confirm this after she auditions hers then i will most definitely be getting one. Looks like i could be joining the Glenn club soon!!! I'm excited now.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> Really? if that is true and if dubstepgirl can confirm this after she auditions hers then i will most definitely be getting one. Looks like i could be joining the Glenn club soon!!! I'm excited now.


 
 The OTL performs well with 32 Ohm Grado's (2359glenn) and 25 Ohm Denon's (SO)... and the usual fare 50 Ohms and up. I had a month with the HD-600 (300 Ohm) and DT-990 (600 Ohm) and thought the D7000 would be exposed on the impedance mismatch front.
  
 Surprisingly, this was not the case with the 2359glenn OTL/D7000 pairing. But previously heard comments from WA2 owners and/or listeners that the Woo didn't do so well with low impedance cans.


----------



## dminches

ultrainferno said:


> What do you think? Scratch the leben plans and get an OTL? Is it really that good with planars?


 
  
 I already have a Leben!  I didn't say the OTL sounds better than the Leben (the Leben is 7x the price), but they really sounded nice with the OTL.


----------



## magiccabbage

Which leben? is it the one they don't build anymore? I heard that amp was amazing. a well respected audiophile at the meet i went to yesterday said it was the best headphone amp that he ever heard. Same guy had a 16,000 euro power amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> Which leben? is it the one they don't build anymore? I heard that amp was amazing. a well respected audiophile at the meet i went to yesterday said it was the best headphone amp that he ever heard. Same guy had a 16,000 euro power amp.


 

 And I traded up from the one they don't build anymore to a CS600. I don't regret that because the 600 is used primarily as a speaker amp--like Glenn's monos.


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> And I traded up from the one they don't build anymore to a CS600. I don't regret that because the 600 is used primarily as a speaker amp--like Glenn's monos.


 
 some people prefer the 300 one for headphones at least - would you agree with that?


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> some people prefer the 300 one for headphones at least - would you agree with that?


 

 They both are impressive. To my ear they sounded the same. But through my Zu Audio Omen speakers, the CS600 is the winner.


----------



## kazsud

jc9394 said:


> What tubes it have?
> 
> I like the WA5LE but still think it is lacking on something that I can't pinpoint on.  Next and probably final amp purchase (I said that when I bought the WA22) will be Glenn's SET with WE422A, C3g, and 300B.




You would have to ask Frank I


----------



## Clayton SF

The Leben is in storage now because I've been enjoying Glenn's mono blocks. The Leben CS600 uses 6CS7 drivers and 6L6GC power tubes and uses ss rectification--no glass. Glenn's uses 5U4G, #81 tube for the bias adjustment, C3g driver tube with metal shield, and the 300B power tube. This combination has a clarity that is slightly better than the Leben. The Leben has a lusher sound compared to my GlennAmpMonos. Glenn's amp-sound is more transparent. Those 300Bs sound great or maybe it is the C3gs.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

clayton sf said:


> The Leben is in storage now because I've been enjoying Glenn's mono blocks. The Leben CS600 uses 6CS7 drivers and 6L6GC power tubes and uses ss rectification--no glass. Glenn's uses 5U4G, #81 tube for the bias adjustment, C3g driver tube with metal shield, and the 300B power tube. This combination has a clarity that is slightly better than the Leben. The Leben has a lusher sound compared to my GlennAmpMonos. Glenn's amp-sound is more transparent. Those 300Bs sound great or maybe it is the C3gs.


 
 I think you should store the Leben at my house...


----------



## GrindingThud

Is the CS600 an ultralinear design?



clayton sf said:


> The Leben is in storage now because I've been enjoying Glenn's mono blocks. The Leben CS600 uses 6CS7 drivers and 6L6GC power tubes and uses ss rectification--no glass. Glenn's uses 5U4G, #81 tube for the bias adjustment, C3g driver tube with metal shield, and the 300B power tube. This combination has a clarity that is slightly better than the Leben. The Leben has a lusher sound compared to my GlennAmpMonos. Glenn's amp-sound is more transparent. Those 300Bs sound great or maybe it is the C3gs.


----------



## wolfetan44

galaxyguy said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > The Leben is in storage now because I've been enjoying Glenn's mono blocks. The Leben CS600 uses 6CS7 drivers and 6L6GC power tubes and uses ss rectification--no glass. Glenn's uses 5U4G, #81 tube for the bias adjustment, C3g driver tube with metal shield, and the 300B power tube. This combination has a clarity that is slightly better than the Leben. The Leben has a lusher sound compared to my GlennAmpMonos. Glenn's amp-sound is more transparent. Those 300Bs sound great or maybe it is the C3gs.
> ...


 
 Maybe my house?


----------



## magiccabbage

Im new to the Glenn game. What amp type would you guys recommend for low impedance headphones in particular the LCD 2 and 3?


----------



## wolfetan44

magiccabbage said:


> Im new to the Glenn game. What amp type would you guys recommend for low impedance headphones in particular the LCD 2 and 3?


 
 An SS or hybrid.


----------



## Ultrainferno

The 300B Stereo integrated


----------



## magiccabbage

wolfetan44 said:


> An SS or hybrid.


 
 does glenn make SS and hybrid


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> does glenn make SS and hybrid


 

 I think I've heard him mention that he can build a great hybrid amp.


----------



## wolfetan44

magiccabbage said:


> wolfetan44 said:
> 
> 
> > An SS or hybrid.
> ...


 
 I've requested a hybrid amp before and said he could make it(I didn't ever buy it though..) 
  
 To Glenn: Would a tube USB isolator be possible? Because I could be interested at the right price. Or just a regular USB isolator..


----------



## Ultrainferno

This is what a reviewer friend had to say about the 300B amp from Glenn
  
_The 300B is good._

_Full sound, weighty bass, not so bright. Typical tube smooth sound. Big sound stage, clean black background. Excellent dynamics for a 300B tube, decent pace. It's an all rounder amp. I just felt the dynamics a bit lacking from my usual standard but again I've been using the Studio Six. Sound stage size the 300B amp matches the Studio Six though._
  
 Now if that isn't a compliment, I don't know what is!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Wow, Ultra-, that's cool. Who else owns a GlennAmp 5U4, C3g, 300B?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Glenn, you and me only I suppose.


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> Im new to the Glenn game. What amp type would you guys recommend for low impedance headphones in particular the LCD 2 and 3?




Glenn told me 3DG4, C3g, and 300B will drive it better than my WA5LE. My next amp from Glenn.


----------



## john57

jc9394 said:


> Glenn told me 3DG4, C3g, and 300B will drive it better than my WA5LE. My next amp from Glenn.


 
 I am all for it. Glenn saying that he can make a better amp than the WA5LE I am mightily impressed.


----------



## 2359glenn

The thing to making a great sounding 300B amp is
The output transformer #1
And the driver tube #2


----------



## Neogeo333

I dont have my LCD2 anymore but a LFF Paradox and some yamaha orthos along with a Nad rp18 and it really sings with my Glenn otl with 6336 tubes. It has more power than my Liquid Glass amp but a bit shy in the soundstage and micro dynamics. Then again i only have it for a week and it clearly getting better with each use. its also less picky about driver tubes. In my LG some 6f8g and most B36 tubes it has a hiss or noise sound. in Gleens otl I dont hear the noise. My guess is Glenn will be loaded with 300b orders soon. I might go that route come this time next year.


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> The 300B Stereo integrated


 
 Just looked at your 300b man that thing is nice. Is it strictly headphones? what 300b's do you like in it, and what GZ34's If you don't mind me asking? Hopefully you haven't discussed this to death on other pages.


----------



## magiccabbage

neogeo333 said:


> I dont have my LCD2 anymore but a LFF Paradox and some yamaha orthos along with a Nad rp18 and it really sings with my Glenn otl with 6336 tubes. It has more power than my Liquid Glass amp but a bit shy in the soundstage and micro dynamics. Then again i only have it for a week and it clearly getting better with each use. its also less picky about driver tubes. In my LG some 6f8g and most B36 tubes it has a hiss or noise sound. in Gleens otl I dont hear the noise. My guess is Glenn will be loaded with 300b orders soon. I might go that route come this time next year.


 
 So its good with the planars? Interesting. Have you got pics of your amp?


----------



## Ultrainferno

magiccabbage said:


> Just looked at your 300b man that thing is nice. Is it strictly headphones? what 300b's do you like in it, and what GZ34's If you don't mind me asking? Hopefully you haven't discussed this to death on other pages.


 
  
 I don't have 300Bs to roll. Glenn made it for the JJ's so I'm sticking to them. Haven't tried any GZ34 yet, somewhere in this thread I gave my impressions on all the rectifiers I had at that time. I should update the list.
 To me the best ones are the GZ37 Mullard, RK60/1641 and the RCA 5U4GB


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> I don't have 300Bs to roll. Glenn made it for the JJ's so I'm sticking to them. Haven't tried any GZ34 yet, somewhere in this thread I gave my impressions on all the rectifiers I had at that time. I should update the list.
> To me the best ones are the GZ37 Mullard, RK60/1641 and the RCA 5U4GB


 
 Good news all round, they are not that expensive which is great. I must ask Glenn about prices when he is not too busy. I would like to go for the otl but if it doesn't sound all the great then maybe the 300b is a better option. Well, its obviously a better option but it would be nice if i could get away with the OTL.


----------



## rosgr63

magiccabbage said:


> Good news all round, they are not that expensive which is great. I must ask Glenn about prices when he is not too busy. I would like to go for the *otl but if it doesn't sound all the great *then maybe the 300b is a better option. Well, its obviously a better option but it would be nice if i could get away with the OTL.


 
  
 Where exactly did you hear that?
  
 I must have missed the review.


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> *I don't have 300Bs to roll. Glenn made it for the JJ's so I'm sticking to them.* Haven't tried any GZ34 yet, somewhere in this thread I gave my impressions on all the rectifiers I had at that time. I should update the list.
> To me the best ones are the GZ37 Mullard, RK60/1641 and the RCA 5U4GB


 
  





 It's great to see this expressed. It shines the light on a designer's ability to _voice_ the amp.


----------



## Silent One

_Whoa Nellie..._
  
 ...It's nice to see the_ little thread that could_, emerge as the top three most active threads, yesterday.


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> Where exactly did you hear that?
> 
> I must have missed the review.


 
  
 He's talking about the OTL in combination with planar magnetic headphones Stavros.


----------



## Clayton SF

Stavros--all I need to get is the phyllo dough and I'll be able to make your treasured dessert. That was the missing ingredient otherwise I would have made it this last weekend.
  
 I was at the Walt Disney Family Museum yesterday. If anyone has a change, go visit. A fun walk through animation and Disney's rich and _colorful_ history. I saw an old film editing unit that had tubes in it. At least I could identify the undersides of its sockets. I couldn't see the actual glass.
  
 If anyone comes to visit SF make sure you go there--after pizza in Little Italy, right wolfetan44?
  
_*Walt Disney Family Museum Interactive Galleries*_


----------



## wolfetan44

clayton sf said:


> Stavros--all I need to get is the phyllo dough and I'll be able to make your treasured dessert. That was the missing ingredient otherwise I would have made it this last weekend.
> 
> I was at the Walt Disney Family Museum yesterday. If anyone has a change, go visit. A fun walk through animation and Disney's rich and _colorful_ history. I saw an old film editing unit that had tubes in it. At least I could identify the undersides of its sockets. I couldn't see the actual glass.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes!


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> He's talking about the OTL in combination with planar magnetic headphones Stavros.


 
  
 When one makes a statement like that they should be more specific or careful.


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> When one makes a statement like that they should be more specific or careful.


 
  
 Or read the 10 previous posts above before replying


----------



## daigo

ultrainferno said:


> I don't have 300Bs to roll. Glenn made it for the JJ's so I'm sticking to them. Haven't tried any GZ34 yet, somewhere in this thread I gave my impressions on all the rectifiers I had at that time. I should update the list.
> To me the best ones are the GZ37 Mullard, RK60/1641 and the RCA 5U4GB


 
  
 Are the JJ 300B's the sweet spot for price to performance?  I've been considering some new 300B's for my EC 300B/6SL7 amp and somewhat balking at some of the pricing for the boutique ones or NOS WE's.


----------



## magiccabbage

rosgr63 said:


> Where exactly did you hear that?
> 
> I must have missed the review.


 
 When i said " I would like to go for the otl but if it doesn't sound all the great then maybe the 300b is a better option." of course i only meant for planars. I have not heard any of the amps so i don't actually know how it would sound. Someone said before that they heard the OTL with LCD2 and it was only "fine" which i took to meaning ok sounding. So im thinking it would not be best to go down that road for optimal playback. 
  
 The thing is i already have an OTL (WA2) which is just for HD800 and T1. I want another amp for planars. I got excited about the Glenn OTL thinking that it might pair well with them - it would be handy because its the cheaper amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

silent one said:


> It's great to see this expressed. It shines the light on a designer's ability to _voice_ the amp.


 
 I have read in a number of places that the JJs are kind of odd and if you want to use them you need to design the amp for them or they don't really work well.  Not sure if this affects the amps ability to work well with other 300Bs afterwards or not.  I figured all 300B are the same really but I have seen this remark multiple times in DIY forums so there must be something to it.
  
 I hear a lot of polarizing opinions on the JJs.  Some people think they are the best 300B out there and others think they are strident and hard sounding.  And I'm sure it is bias and amp dependant too.


----------



## Xcalibur255

magiccabbage said:


> When i said " I would like to go for the otl but if it doesn't sound all the great then maybe the 300b is a better option." of course i only meant for planars. I have not heard any of the amps so i don't actually know how it would sound. Someone said before that they heard the OTL with LCD2 and it was only "fine" which i took to meaning ok sounding. So im thinking it would not be best to go down that road for optimal playback.
> 
> The thing is i already have an OTL (WA2) which is just for HD800 and T1. I want another amp for planars. I got excited about the Glenn OTL thinking that it might pair well with them - it would be handy because its the cheaper amp.


 

 I always thought my OTL sounded good with the LCD-2.  It sounds better on the 45 though.    One of the nice things about Glenn's design is how flexible it is, the output impedance is lower than most OTL amps.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> JC Here are some pictures of your amp
> The only difference from David's amp is the chokes are made by a different company and are a different shape same value though.


 
  
  
 I can't stop going back to look at this post...  I think I may have some serious mental issues...


----------



## magiccabbage

xcalibur255 said:


> I always thought my OTL sounded good with the LCD-2.  It sounds better on the 45 though.    One of the nice things about Glenn's design is how flexible it is, the output impedance is lower than most OTL amps.


 
 Maybe i could get by with the OTL/lcd2 then. I will ask Dubstepgirl to try some of her planars with hers when she gets it. I think she has LCD3 and HE500. 
  
 Your lovely amp can hardly power the HE6? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Imagine!


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> I can't stop going back to look at this post...  I think I may have some serious mental issues...


 
 It looks so good - i love the black with silver front its sweet!


----------



## magiccabbage

What is the tube on the far left?


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I can't stop going back to look at this post...  I think I may have some serious mental issues...


 
  
 No, really... I take delight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




in waiting with you.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> No, really... I take delight
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice ride...
  
 I think I will have it around mid to late November.  It will head to Chicago for a some deep dish pizza first.


----------



## jc9394

Glenn, can I use ECC32 with your OTL amp?  I'm tempt to get one to try.


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> I have read in a number of places that the JJs are kind of odd and if you want to use them you need to design the amp for them or they don't really work well.  Not sure if this affects the amps ability to work well with other 300Bs afterwards or not.  I figured all 300B are the same really but I have seen this remark multiple times in DIY forums so there must be something to it.
> 
> I hear a lot of polarizing opinions on the JJs.  Some people think they are the best 300B out there and others think they are strident and hard sounding.  And I'm sure it is bias and amp dependant too.


 
  
 I've never knowingly heard a 'JJ.' What I gather from looking at designer's work and DIY circles is that all tubes have their character. But parts selection for the amp and implementation can influence how that character behaves. Making it possible for both those claims to be true - best and terrible.


----------



## Xcalibur255

magiccabbage said:


> Maybe i could get by with the OTL/lcd2 then. I will ask Dubstepgirl to try some of her planars with hers when she gets it. I think she has LCD3 and HE500.
> 
> Your lovely amp can hardly power the HE6?
> 
> ...


 
 If what people say about the HE-6 is true then the 45 probably doesn't have the balls to drive them.  300B without a step down resistor would be the ticket with the HE-6, but that would be overkill for anything else too.  I personally have never had the HE-6 on my radar so I'm not worried about whether or not my amp could handle them.
  
 With the 6336 tube Glenn's OTL will drive any headphone, no matter the specs.  Lots of power there.


----------



## Xcalibur255

magiccabbage said:


> What is the tube on the far left?


 

 Looks like a 5U4G to me.


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, though not quite mine...yet. I'm considering getting one pre-owned or another track bike in December. I hope to get lucky 'cause the less I spend on cycling, the more I'll have for audio. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Pizza chat is making me hungry again! No idea what's for lunch today...


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> I've never knowingly heard a 'JJ.' What I gather from looking at designer's work and DIY circles is that all tubes have their character. But parts selection for the amp and implementation can influence how that character behaves. Making it possible for both those claims to be true - best and terrible.


 
 When the JJs go, I will try the Value Art 300B. I'm easy. 
 (Unless Ultra- has a couple of Western Electrics hidden away for me.)


----------



## magiccabbage

xcalibur255 said:


> If what people say about the HE-6 is true then the 45 probably doesn't have the balls to drive them.  300B without a step down resistor would be the ticket with the HE-6, but that would be overkill for anything else too.  I personally have never had the HE-6 on my radar so I'm not worried about whether or not my amp could handle them.
> 
> With the 6336 tube Glenn's OTL will drive any headphone, no matter the specs.  Lots of power there.


 
 Yea, great stuff! Im happy now. I will get the OTL early next year then or maybe even sooner.


----------



## Xcalibur255

jc9394 said:


> Glenn, can I use ECC32 with your OTL amp?  I'm tempt to get one to try.


 
 Yes.  The tranny Glenn uses has plenty of reserve to handle the extra heater current draw.  I use one on my OTL and I have the older smaller tranny.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> When the JJs go, I will try the Value Art 300B. I'm easy.


 
  
 Ah... life 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




in _The City. _A life of class, glass and comfort food.


----------



## jc9394

xcalibur255 said:


> Yes.  The tranny Glenn uses has plenty of reserve to handle the extra heater current draw.  I use one on my OTL and I have the older smaller tranny.


 
  
 Mullard ECC32?  How it compare to the other 6SN7?


----------



## Xcalibur255

jc9394 said:


> Mullard ECC32?  How it compare to the other 6SN7?


 

 Overall it is probably the best sounding driver tube I have for the amp.  It's a little more resolved sounding than the round plate Tung Sol and has great tone.


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> If what people say about the HE-6 is true then the 45 probably doesn't have the balls to drive them.  300B without a step down resistor would be the ticket with the HE-6, but that would be overkill for anything else too.  I personally have never had the HE-6 on my radar so I'm not worried about whether or not my amp could handle them.
> 
> With the 6336 tube Glenn's OTL will drive any headphone, no matter the specs.  Lots of power there.


 
  
 I can't wait
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to leash my HE-6 up to a pair of 2359glenn 300B monaural blocks! But, I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it'll have to...


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> I can't wait
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 haha - i could not resist! ¬


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> I can't wait
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've missed this? You have the HE-6? Wow. Nice.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> haha - i could not resist! ¬


 




  
 That's cold.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> I've missed this? You have the HE-6? Wow. Nice.


 
  
 So far, so good. Already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




have 'em re-cabled with the new Wireworld Silver Eclipse7 Headphone cable (4x19AWG):


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> So far, so good. Already
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It's beginning to resemble my apartment


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> It's beginning to resemble my apartment


 
  
 You be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the clever one and got wheels... I need to borrow that chapter. And maybe a slice of that there Apple pie!


----------



## kazsud

Has Glenn made any pre-amps before? 
Instead of looking for a pre-amp/headphone amp combo I think I should get a separate pre-amp for my emotiva pro 6s.


----------



## Clayton SF

kazsud said:


> Has Glenn made any pre-amps before?
> Instead of looking for a pre-amp/headphone amp combo I think I should get a separate pre-amp for my emotiva pro 6s.


 
 The OTL that Glenn built me is also a pre-amp


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> You be
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 With advance notice I can have a homemade Dutch Apple Pie ready for you when you come over again. Providing that apples are still in season, that is.


----------



## Ultrainferno

magiccabbage said:


> What is the tube on the far left?


 
  
 Rectifier 5U4G
  


clayton sf said:


> When the JJs go, I will try the Value Art 300B. I'm easy.
> (Unless Ultra- has a couple of Western Electrics hidden away for me.)


 
  
 If only C...
  


clayton sf said:


> The OTL that Glenn built me is also a pre-amp


 
  
 We still need to see pics of your new setup 
  


daigo said:


> Are the JJ 300B's the sweet spot for price to performance?  I've been considering some new 300B's for my EC 300B/6SL7 amp and somewhat balking at some of the pricing for the boutique ones or NOS WE's.


 
  
 I'm no 300B or JJ tube expert. Glenn would know probably


----------



## Neogeo333

magiccabbage said:


> Yea, great stuff! Im happy now. I will get the OTL early next year then or maybe even sooner.




Don't worry about power with Glenn otl amp. If it can drive the Telefunken TH700 and Wharfedale ID2 both been very inefficient cans it can drive any orthos out there. Just because its an otl people will think it must be an amp for high impedance cans. When I asked Glenn to build my amp I told him it would be use specifically for orthos and wanted to deliver the highest power it could to the phones. We all know orthos are power hungry cans. in this case the more the better. Been a week since I received the amp and still haven't tried a dynamic phone on it. Maybe its time I tried.


----------



## jc9394

neogeo333 said:


> Don't worry about power with Glenn otl amp. If it can drive the Telefunken TH700 and Wharfedale ID2 both been very inefficient cans it can drive any orthos out there. Just because its an otl people will think it must be an amp for high impedance cans. When I asked Glenn to build my amp I told him it would be use specifically for orthos and wanted to deliver the highest power it could to the phones. We all know orthos are power hungry cans. in this case the more the better. Been a week since I received the amp and still haven't tried a dynamic phone on it. Maybe its time I tried.


 
  
 Are you using 3DG4 and 6336?


----------



## Neogeo333

yeap. Gonna use a GZ37 tonight to roll a bit. Glenn was nice enough to include 2 3DG4 for me. 

Also forgot to mention how well the amp behave when cranking the volume pass 2 o'clock. Other amps I had when pushed this hard exhibit distortion.


----------



## jc9394

Nice, I need to get a GZ34/37 back soon.  Rolling any 6SN7 yet?


----------



## Neogeo333

Just tried the BL63 and a B36. Next in line a 25sn7 or Brimar 13D1. 25 volt version of the 6sn7. Glenn made a switch so I could use 6, 12, and 25 volt 6sn7 variants. Tube rolling at it best.


----------



## Silent One

Indeed...


----------



## magiccabbage

neogeo333 said:


> Don't worry about power with Glenn otl amp. If it can drive the Telefunken TH700 and Wharfedale ID2 both been very inefficient cans it can drive any orthos out there. Just because its an otl people will think it must be an amp for high impedance cans. When I asked Glenn to build my amp I told him it would be use specifically for orthos and wanted to deliver the highest power it could to the phones. We all know orthos are power hungry cans. in this case the more the better. Been a week since I received the amp and still haven't tried a dynamic phone on it. Maybe its time I tried.


 
 It would be great to hear some impressions if you have a planar handy. Have you posted pics on this thread?


----------



## Neogeo333

I think Glenn posted some pics of my amp before sending it to me. you can look back like 10 pages back and see it. When I get home I will post some.


----------



## magiccabbage

neogeo333 said:


> I think Glenn posted some pics of my amp before sending it to me. you can look back like 10 pages back and see it. When I get home I will post some.


 
 I have seen those, I was just making sure in case you got a slightly different build.  threse ¬


----------



## Neogeo333

That doesn't look like mine at all. My amp has a 4pin xlr and way bigger tranny. if I wasn't working now, I could look for the pics and show you.


----------



## jc9394

Yep, custom build always a little different.


----------



## jc9394

neogeo333 said:


> That doesn't look like mine at all. My amp has a 4pin xlr and way bigger tranny. if I wasn't working now, I could look for the pics and show you.


 

 That is my amp.


----------



## magiccabbage

neogeo333 said:


> That doesn't look like mine at all. My amp has a 4pin xlr and way bigger tranny. if I wasn't working now, I could look for the pics and show you.


 
 I will have a look again, im sure i can find it.


----------



## Neogeo333

Try like 2 weeks before today. Glenn posted it back then.


----------



## magiccabbage

Got it. Its actually even nicer!  ¬


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Wow...


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Wow...


 
 Yes it will be mine!! (If he builds it, it will)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> Yes it will be mine!! (If he builds it, it will)  :tongue_smile:



+1

Im excited to audition it, will definitely be ordering one right away if it works nice for t1/hd800.

Seems like theres alot of possibilities for tube rolling.

Glenn, how much can u customize, upgrade, change on the OTL?


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> Im excited to audition it, will definitely be ordering one right away if it works nice for t1/hd800.
> 
> ...


 
 Is that the exact one you are getting also?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

No, i dont want balanced. And i want to see what glenn offers. Itll probably be like the one jc9394 is getting, since thats the one ill be listening to.

Glenn, how much power does your amp output?


----------



## magiccabbage

Dont think its fully balanced just has the 4 pin xlr at the front. looks like single ended at the back


----------



## Neogeo333

The reason I had Glenn put a 4pin xlr for the headphones jack is because I own a couple of phones recable with them. I can even use the 4pin and 1\4" at the same time. Pretty good when comparing phones with one amp. Has Glenn made a balanced amp before?


----------



## magiccabbage

neogeo333 said:


> The reason I had Glenn put a 4pin xlr for the headphones jack is because I own a couple of phones recable with them. I can even use the 4pin and 1\4" at the same time. Pretty good when comparing phones with one amp. Has Glenn made a balanced amp before?


 
 Phew! I though you were gonna say that the 4 pin is needed to power planars or something like that. Its the same power regardless of which lead i presume?


----------



## Xcalibur255

neogeo333 said:


> The reason I had Glenn put a 4pin xlr for the headphones jack is because I own a couple of phones recable with them. I can even use the 4pin and 1\4" at the same time. Pretty good when comparing phones with one amp. Has Glenn made a balanced amp before?


 

 He's not a big fan of balanced in general.  We've talked about it some in the past here.  After hearing his explanation I am not a big fan of balanced either and will never be pursuing it with any system of my own.


----------



## Silent One

I appreciate Tyll & Co for seeing what's possible with "Balanced drive" headphones/amps some moons back.


----------



## Neogeo333

I have a a few Yamaha HP1 one in 4pin and other in 1\4. When using the 4pin on Glenn otl to my ears it sounds better. I forgot to ask Glenn how he wired the 4pin. or maybe its sharing it with the 1\4? I mean using the same negative for both L&R? or separate like a speaker post? Glenn can you answer this? Btw, my yammy HP1 cable is silver and wonder if this makes it sounds "better"?


----------



## jc9394

neogeo333 said:


> That doesn't look like mine at all. My amp has a *4pin xlr *and way bigger tranny. if I wasn't working now, I could look for the pics and show you.


 
  
  
 That is nice feature, wonder if it too late to ask Glenn to add that.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> Im excited to audition it, will definitely be ordering one right away if it works nice for t1/hd800.
> 
> ...


 

 What do you want ?
  
 I can put a 6.3 , 12.6 , 25.2 volt switch for the 6SN7
 Also can put a XLR if you want
 Should be ready to ship JC's at the end of the week


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Hmm what does volt switch do, just more drivers to roll?

I dont want xlr.


----------



## Silent One

I lack the switch but have adapters - allows you to run a higher voltage version of a premium tube for less cost. _More choice. _Last December, I nearly bought a pair of TSBGRPs-12SN7GT for $110. And unexpectedly shut down the listening room, so I passed.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

12SN7 ?


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> 12SN7 ?


 
  





 Yup! I could have saved a lotta dough. The Brimar 13D1 saves, too.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It is more apt to call them _smarter_ choices rather than more choices.  Want to hear a black glass Ken Rad?  Oh, they sell for triple digit prices?  You can get the 1633 for under $10 and it is the same tube with a different working voltage on the heater.
  
 That is the logic behind the voltage selector switch.  6V is best known, and most in demand, hence the high prices.


----------



## Neogeo333

Just tried the Brimars 13D1 on my 6336 OTL, nice tube but a bit bright.  Lots of detail though.  Just logged around 2 hours with it before I heard a loud transformer blow up form couple of street from my house.  Biggest boom I heard in a long time.  Lights dimmed a bit and first instinct was to shut the amp off.


----------



## rosgr63

Talking about tube rolling, my GR Super 10 which was a special gift from Glenn can run with four 6AS7G and has the 6SN7/12SN7/25SN7 switch.
  
 As Tyrell mentioned above I am running it with a Ken Rad 1633.
 In fact it's the driver Glenn gave me, I never changed it yet.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Home made cake for everyone in this thread today! My treat!


----------



## Silent One

A Champagne 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Cake?


----------



## Ultrainferno

If you ever make it to this side of the world, we'll go for champagne!


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> If you ever make it to this side of the world, we'll go for champagne!


 
  
 Great! You know I gotta do the "Reims Run." Or is it _crawl?_


----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> Stavros--all I need to get is the phyllo dough and I'll be able to make your treasured dessert. That was the missing ingredient otherwise I would have made it this last weekend.
> 
> I was at the Walt Disney Family Museum yesterday. If anyone has a change, go visit. A fun walk through animation and Disney's rich and _colorful_ history. I saw an old film editing unit that had tubes in it. At least I could identify the undersides of its sockets. I couldn't see the actual glass.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Here it is:


----------



## Ultrainferno

ultrainferno said:


> Home made cake for everyone in this thread today! My treat!


 
  
 That's the last time I offered cake for my birthday. Nobody besides Clayton and SO had a piece


----------



## rosgr63

I thought it was your wedding cake!
  
 Happy Birthday Ultra!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## dminches

HBD Lieven!


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > Home made cake for everyone in this thread today! My treat!
> ...


 
 Happy Birthday L! I am on a diet....


----------



## Clayton SF

Ultra-'s birthday was yesterday. But, Happy Birthday again, UltraCake. You still look 25


----------



## jc9394

Happy Birthday Ultra


----------



## magiccabbage

So anyone have a Glenn 300b that powers high impedance headphones and planars?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks guys! I'm officially still young now according to Clayton. I haven't gotten any gifts yet.
 My girlfriend has a surprise for me on thursday, I'm hoping it's audio related. She didn't by any change order an OTL with you Glenn, did she?


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Thanks guys! I'm officially still young now according to Clayton. I haven't gotten any gifts yet.
> My girlfriend has a surprise for me on thursday, I'm hoping it's audio related. She didn't by any change order an OTL with you Glenn, did she?


 

 Wait until Christmas, Ultra-. Just you wait...


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Wait until Christmas, Ultra-. Just you wait...


 

 You're scaring me. what did I miss?


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Thanks guys! I'm officially still young now according to Clayton. I haven't gotten any gifts yet.
> My girlfriend has a surprise for me on thursday, I'm hoping it's audio related. She didn't by any change order an OTL with you Glenn, did she?


 





 Did you check with Customs Officials? If they deny receiving anything from L.A. this week addressed from SO, well, it's the thought that counts.


----------



## Ultrainferno

silent one said:


> Did you check with Customs Officials? If they deny receiving anything from L.A. this week addressed from SO, well, it's the thought that counts.


 
  
 LOL. And to think I was about to send you that signed Iljo Keisse shirt


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> LOL. And to think I was about to send you that signed Iljo Keisse shirt


 
  
 And speaking of shirts. Have you washed and worn that red red RCA t-shirt I brought you last August. Is every piece of clothing you own now red?


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> And speaking of shirts. Have you washed and worn that red red RCA t-shirt I brought you last August. Is every piece of clothing you own now red?


 
  
 Oh I have! I love wearing it on fridays. I got some more red stuff now, so it's good 
 I was wearing the Mullard shirt earlier this week, it's so cool


----------



## Clayton SF

Trick or Treat?
 Happy Halloween everyone.
 Grab some Halloween candy,
 unwrap it and enjoy!


----------



## rosgr63

Happy Halloween All
  
 Don't eat too many sweets!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

That is seriously too cool Clayton.  You can even tell it's a pentode.  Where did you get those?


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> That is seriously too cool Clayton.  You can even tell it's a pentode.  Where did you get those?


 
 +1
 Amazing!


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Happy Halloween All
> 
> Don't eat too many sweets!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
 "Happy Halloween Everyone!!!"
  
 And don't swim in too many liquids!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

silent one said:


> +1
> Amazing!


 
 +2!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got this early today, it even came in a box just like the mighty 596 with a 1956 date....
  
 ordering 3 more now!!  EDIT: they're all out


----------



## Silent One

Ahhh... good ol' Joint ARMY-NAVY! What a Halloween treat, DG!


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> just got this early today, it even came in a box just like the mighty 596 with a 1956 date....
> 
> ordering 3 more now!!  EDIT: they're all out


 
  
 crap, you are going to make me order a couple...


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's a beautiful RK60 right? Who did I need to send the sources to again?

My bday party just ended. Got some great gifts (will post a pic tomorrow) and I got this stunning cake

 

If you can guess the scene you get a piece


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> That's a beautiful RK60 right? Who did I need to send the sources to again?
> 
> My bday party just ended. Got some great gifts (will post a pic tomorrow) and I got this stunning cake
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ultra-. You are young looking wearing that white bib.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Good one. That's my awesome godchild however


----------



## Errymoose

ultrainferno said:


> If you can guess the scene you get a piece


 
 The one where Sheldon breaks into the ball pit 
  
 Very fancy looking cake!


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> just got this early today, it even came in a box just like the mighty 596 with a 1956 date....
> 
> ordering 3 more now!!  EDIT: they're all out


 
 what tube is that


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Rk60 rectifier


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> just got this early today, it even came in a box just like the mighty 596 with a 1956 date....
> 
> ordering 3 more now!!  EDIT: they're all out


 
 I will make the adapter on Saturday and ship it with the amp.
 What brand is that tube?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> I will make the adapter on Saturday and ship it with the amp.
> What brand is that tube?




Thanks glenn! 

Its GE branded. It came in a plain white box that has all the info on it kinda like the ones the 596s come in as well


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Thanks glenn!
> 
> Its GE branded. It came in a plain white box that has all the info on it kinda like the ones the 596s come in as well


 
 So you should have it by the end of next week? Cant wait for impressions especially considering your relationship with the WA2. It will be great to hear what it sounds like compared to that amp. I have decided on the 6336 OTL. I sold some records and the HD650 so i have extra money lying around. I am tying to decide what headphone to get for the OTL its between hifiman and audeze. Which do you prefer - HE500 or LCD2?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Depends on your taste and your music.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Depends on your taste and your music.


 
 hmmmm, I mainly listen to Jazz/acoustic/soul/funk/classicrock/prog and then some electronic.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

LCD-2


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> LCD-2


 
 nice! 
  
  Neogeo said that the 6336 can possibly power the HE6, imagine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That would be great.


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone else have here  a 6336 OTL other than NeoGeo??


----------



## jc9394

DG, you should receive it by Wednesday, it is shipped by USPS Priority.  Make sure someone at home to sign for it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I believe technically all of the OTLs are capable of running the 6336 tube.  Assuming I'm not missing anything anyway.  It was successfully tested on mine and mine is the old design with the lower rated transformer.  I just haven't tried it myself because I am content with the 5998.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> DG, you should receive it by Wednesday, it is shipped by USPS Priority.  Make sure someone at home to sign for it.
> 
> 
> Ok thanks! Helps to know the date





magiccabbage said:


> Anyone else have here  a 6336 OTL other than NeoGeo??




Ill be able to test if he-6 can be driven with that tube. I really doubt it, like no way.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

xcalibur255 said:


> I believe technically all of the OTLs are capable of running the 6336 tube.  Assuming I'm not missing anything anyway.  It was successfully tested on mine and mine is the old design with the lower rated transformer.  I just haven't tried it myself because I am content with the 5998.




The wa2??


----------



## GrindingThud

That's my assessment as well. The transconductance and plate resistance is just not there to provide much more power out and low enough impedance....but the voltage is higher when it biases up...so indeed it may go louder with a little less control. I'm interested in the review also...many things sound far better than numbers might suggest.



dubstep girl said:


> Ill be able to test if he-6 can be driven with that tube. I really doubt it, like no way.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Ill be able to test if he-6 can be driven with that tube. I really doubt it, like no way.


 
 yes but my OTL will have a much bigger transformer for more power. NeoGeo who also has one used to own the Schiit Mjolnir and he says that his OTL has more power than that. Now I am not sure if the Mjolnir can power the HE6 or not but maybe the OTL can, maybe?


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > just got this early today, it even came in a box just like the mighty 596 with a 1956 date....
> ...


 
  
 I have my RK60's working with the new Vandersteens....


----------



## Neogeo333

magiccabbage said:


> yes but my OTL will have a much bigger transformer for more power. NeoGeo who also has one used to own the Schiit Mjolnir and he says that his OTL has more power than that. Now I am not sure if the Mjolnir can power the HE6 or not but maybe the OTL can, maybe?


 

 Look in the Mjolnir thread, many people said it sounds bad, good, and excellent with the HE-6.  In my opinion the Mjolnir is overall a powerful and transparent amp.  But it missing the musicality of a tube amp.  From what I heard many say the HE-6 sounds dry and too much emphasis on treble.  Its a bass monster but nothing more.  I say if you throw the right system at the HE-6 it can sound good.  I have not heard it and honestly it doesnt interest me. 
  
 I dont know for sure if my OTL has more power than a Mjolnir but to my ears it sounds way better than it.  Just because one amp outputs x amount and another put out x amount doesnt mean a thing.  Its all on how you like its sound.  Also just because one amp is x price and another x price doesnt mean a thing either. Hell, if a 200.00 portable amp sounds as a good as my Glenn OTL you know one is going in the FS thread right away.  If that happens hell will freeze and we all be listening to Beats.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> I believe technically all of the OTLs are capable of running the 6336 tube.  Assuming I'm not missing anything anyway.  It was successfully tested on mine and mine is the old design with the lower rated transformer.  I just haven't tried it myself because I am content with the 5998.


 
  
  


dubstep girl said:


> The wa2??


 

 Not the WA2 unless you want to burn it up.
 He means OTLs that I built


----------



## Xcalibur255

dubstep girl said:


> The wa2??


 

 Sorry I was unclear I mean all of the Glenn made OTLs.
  
 edit:  I was beaten to that explanation.


----------



## magiccabbage

xcalibur255 said:


> Sorry I was unclear I mean all of the Glenn made OTLs.
> 
> edit:  I was beaten to that explanation.


 
 you have an OTL as well?


----------



## Xcalibur255

magiccabbage said:


> yes but my OTL will have a much bigger transformer for more power. NeoGeo who also has one used to own the Schiit Mjolnir and he says that his OTL has more power than that. Now I am not sure if the Mjolnir can power the HE6 or not but maybe the OTL can, maybe?


 

 The capabilities of your amp's transformer has nothing to do with its drive or output power capability.  The values of the tranny are chosen based on the voltage/current requirements of the the tubes, particularly the supply for the heaters since that is usually where the highest demand is.  It's entirely possible to design an amp that has high heater power requirements but produces low output power depending upon the tube selection.  That wouldn't make it a bad amp either, since there are many factors that determine what tube is right for what job.
  
 I stand by my choice of the 45 vs. the 300B for headphone use.  I think the amount of "power" we need for this job is wildly overstated on Head-fi in general.  Sometimes it makes me wonder just what volumes people are listening to their headphones at.  It's sort of like buying a Ferrari and only ever using it to drive your kid to school....... why seek out massive amounts of headroom when you are not going to be listening at crazy 110dB steady state volumes which would require it?
  
 My .02 cents on it anyway.


----------



## Xcalibur255

magiccabbage said:


> you have an OTL as well?


 

 Yes.  I think I was the second OTL owner after John.  I might be wrong about that though.


----------



## magiccabbage

xcalibur255 said:


> The capabilities of your amp's transformer has nothing to do with its drive or output power capability.  The values of the tranny are chosen based on the voltage/current requirements of the the tubes, particularly the supply for the heaters since that is usually where the highest demand is.  It's entirely possible to design an amp that has high heater power requirements but produces low output power depending upon the tube selection.  That wouldn't make it a bad amp either, since there are many factors that determine what tube is right for what job.
> 
> I stand by my choice of the 45 vs. the 300B for headphone use.  I think the amount of "power" we need for this job is wildly overstated on Head-fi in general.  Sometimes it makes me wonder just what volumes people are listening to their headphones at.  It's sort of like buying a Ferrari and only ever using it to drive your kid to school....... why seek out massive amounts of headroom when you are not going to be listening at crazy 110dB steady state volumes which would require it?
> 
> My .02 cents on it anyway.


 
 I don't think i listen that loud, i never turn my WA2 past 12. I was interested in NeoGeo's OTL for LCD2 and 3. I still don't have a straight answer as to whether it will power those headphones properly because Neo does not have them. If there is another option in a different kind of glenn amp i will go for that. I just don't really know what to go for now. 
  
 I have till January to figure it out. I wonder does anyone have a Glenn amp that is kind of like the WA6-SE where it can power high and low impedance. I would go for the WA6SE amp but its just too ugly for me. I would prefer something that's all one piece.


----------



## dminches

xcalibur255 said:


> It's sort of like buying a Ferrari and only ever using it to drive your kid to school


 
  
 True, but your kids would be very popular


----------



## magiccabbage

I suppose I would want something like the WA22 but made by Glenn. Something that sounds different to the woo but has the same functionality. Glenn maybe you have built something like this before?


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> True, but your kids would be very popular


 
  
 I heard Steven Tyler used to drive his son to school with a Lamborghini but his son request to drop him off couple blocks from school.


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> I suppose I would want something like the WA22 but made by Glenn. Something that sounds different to the woo but has the same functionality. Glenn maybe you have built something like this before?


 
  
 That is kind of what me and Glenn is work on, it is more like WA22 and WA5 combined.  5U4G/3DG4, C3g, and 300B.


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> That is kind of what me and Glenn is work on, it is more like WA22 and WA5 combined.  5U4G/3DG4, C3g, and 300B.


 
 then thats the one for me


----------



## jc9394

We have not decided on the transformer yet but most likely I will take what ever Glenn recommends as he know much more than me.


----------



## Ultrainferno

errymoose said:


> The one where Sheldon breaks into the ball pit
> 
> Very fancy looking cake!


 
  
 Thanks. And that was the scene yes


----------



## Ultrainferno

So anyway,
  
 I tracked down 50+ units of affordable RK60 (of which I reserved a bunch), and maybe even a batch of 596 tubes...
  
 I'll know more on monday


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> So anyway,
> 
> I tracked down 50+ units of affordable RK60 (of which I reserved a bunch), and maybe even a batch of 596 tubes...
> 
> I'll know more on monday


 

 Ultra- does it again. Thanks, Ultra-!
  
 Quote:


jc9394 said:


> I heard Steven Tyler used to drive his son to school with a Lamborghini but his son request to drop him off couple blocks from school.


 
  
 I think that had more to do with his dad and not the car! My mother used to let me drive her '69 mustang after I dropped her off at work and I was very popular. At least I thought I was.


----------



## rosgr63

I never thought you'd be so naughty Clayton!!!!!!!!
  
 Count me in UIltra & good luck!
  
 Eric are you all set for tomorrow?


----------



## jc9394

Count me in too Ultra, I contact few suppliers and all my replies are "sorry, we have none"


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> I never thought you'd be so naughty Clayton!!!!!!!!
> 
> Count me in UIltra & good luck!
> 
> Eric are you all set for tomorrow?


 
  
 Naughtiness can be so complicated and embarrassing. I thought that I was so cool that I walked right into a parking meter right after I excited the car. And then while trying to brush it off and pretend that it didn't happen, I proceeded to walk into another one. Okay, I was only 16. (Stop laughing, Stavros.)


----------



## Ultrainferno

> (Stop laughing, Stavros.)


 
  
 Not only stavros


----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> Naughtiness can be so complicated and embarrassing. I thought that I was so cool that I walked right into a parking meter right after I excited the car. And then while trying to brush it off and pretend that it didn't happen, I proceeded to walk into another one. Okay, I was only 16. (Stop laughing, Stavros.)


 
  
 I did much worse things at 16 Clayton!!!!!!
  
 I wasn't laughing it happens to me now..................


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> I think that had more to do with his dad and not the car! My mother used to let me drive her '69 mustang after I dropped her off at work and I was very popular. At least I thought I was.


 
  
  
 Both, he was OK when Steven drop him off in front of the school with MB.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Both, he was OK when Steven drop him off in front of the school with MB.


 
 At least Steven didn't walk him to school.


----------



## rosgr63

Is it him?


----------



## jc9394

^^^ pretty much...


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> I never thought you'd be so naughty Clayton!!!!!!!!
> 
> Count me in UIltra & good luck!
> 
> Eric are you all set for tomorrow?


 
 I am busy vacuuming.....


----------



## Ultrainferno

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201309413472251&set=gm.10151976486284736
  
 People are monitoring out thread!


----------



## longbowbbs

Um...That would be me...


----------



## Ultrainferno

longbowbbs said:


> Um...That would be me...


 
  
 I figured it had to be one of our Erics


----------



## Clayton SF

NOW THE WORLD KNOWS!
 The word's out--Look out!
 the RK60 will now be $300 a tube 
 Unless Ultra- can lasso and corral the Beasts
 "Move 'em in!"


----------



## rosgr63

Eric can I be the DJ please?


----------



## Xcalibur255

magiccabbage said:


> I don't think i listen that loud, i never turn my WA2 past 12. I was interested in NeoGeo's OTL for LCD2 and 3. I still don't have a straight answer as to whether it will power those headphones properly because Neo does not have them. If there is another option in a different kind of glenn amp i will go for that. I just don't really know what to go for now.
> 
> I have till January to figure it out. I wonder does anyone have a Glenn amp that is kind of like the WA6-SE where it can power high and low impedance. I would go for the WA6SE amp but its just too ugly for me. I would prefer something that's all one piece.


 

 Well, how much you crank up your volume knob is a function of how much gain the circuit has, which is also largely unrelated to the output power capability of the amp.  It's possible to be asking for all the power a circuit can give (aka driving the amp into hard clipping) well before you reach "maximum volume" on your volume knob.  It's also possible to take the situation in the opposite direction too if the amp's gain is very low.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Isn't the RK60 just a 5U4G with higher peak inverse voltage capacity?  I don't understand why everybody is so interested in it.


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> I suppose I would want something like the WA22 but made by Glenn. Something that sounds different to the woo but has the same functionality. Glenn maybe you have built something like this before?


 

 No push pull like the WA 22 I prefer the sound of SE


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Isn't the RK60 just a 5U4G with higher peak inverse voltage capacity?  I don't understand why everybody is so interested in it.


 

 Yes but it does look cool the 596 is the same as a 5U4GB with higher PIV and nobody wants 5U4GBs


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> That is kind of what me and Glenn is work on, it is more like WA22 and WA5 combined.  5U4G/3DG4, C3g, and 300B.





Yeah single 5u4g set amp would be nice!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ultrainferno said:


> So anyway,
> 
> I tracked down 50+ units of affordable RK60 (of which I reserved a bunch), and maybe even a batch of 596 tubes...
> 
> I'll know more on monday




Count me in!!!


----------



## jc9394

Like the one I been discussing with you?


----------



## rnadell

Has anyone listened to the Glenn otl and the Decware CSP2+?
 Wondering what the differences are . Thanks


----------



## longbowbbs

rnadell said:


> Has anyone listened to the Glenn otl and the Decware CSP2+?
> Wondering what the differences are . Thanks


 
 Glenn's is better because you don't have one....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Like the one I been discussing with you?




Yes

I wanna see what glenn thinks of a wa22/wa5esque amp. SET amp. No balanced.

A single 5u4g, 2a3/300b, glenns choice of driver. Something like that


----------



## Clayton SF

rnadell said:


> Has anyone listened to the Glenn otl and the Decware CSP2+?
> Wondering what the differences are . Thanks


 

 I have both, however the Decware CSP2+ was modded by Glenn so it has the GlennSound--DYNAMIC. I had never done a comparison of the two before the mods.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Yes
> 
> I wanna see what glenn thinks of a wa22/wa5esque amp. SET amp. No balanced.
> 
> A single 5u4g, 2a3/300b, glenns choice of driver. Something like that




Definitely prefer C3g since I have 4 waiting for me in the post office.


----------



## Xcalibur255

dubstep girl said:


> Yes
> 
> I wanna see what glenn thinks of a wa22/wa5esque amp. SET amp. No balanced.
> 
> A single 5u4g, 2a3/300b, glenns choice of driver. Something like that


 

 This is the amp ultrainferno has.


----------



## jc9394

xcalibur255 said:


> This is the amp ultrainferno has.




2a3 and 300b are interchangeable?


----------



## rnadell

longbowbbs said:


> Glenn's is better because you don't have one....


 
 Ah, but I do have one on order. Sometime in December hopefully Santa will
 bring one to me.


----------



## Ultrainferno

jc9394 said:


> 2a3 and 300b are interchangeable?


 

 Not that I know


----------



## Xcalibur255

jc9394 said:


> 2a3 and 300b are interchangeable?


 
  
 No, different heater voltages.  I didn't mean to imply that.  I thought the / meant she was looking for one type or the other and hadn't decided.  45 and 2A3 can be done together like they were in my amp because the heater voltage is the same.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

xcalibur255 said:


> No, different heater voltages.  I didn't mean to imply that.  I thought the / meant she was looking for one type or the other and hadn't decided.  45 and 2A3 can be done together like they were in my amp because the heater voltage is the same.




+1

Whichever is preferred. Ipersonally would like to try a 2a3 amp


----------



## Clayton SF

dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> Whichever is preferred. Ipersonally would like to try a 2a3 amp


 
  
 Isn't the 2a3 the more affordable of the two with a variety of brands?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Yah


----------



## Oskari

dubstep girl said:


> Its GE branded.


 
  
 Which, in this case, means General Electronics, not General Electric.


----------



## Silent One

_Emerging..._


----------



## magiccabbage

xcalibur255 said:


> This is the amp ultrainferno has.


 
 Yes but he has said that his is not preferable with high impedance headphones - he only uses planars with his. I was hoping to get something with the capability of powering both. I think the amp that jc9394 is getting is the one that would suit me¬
  
jc9394


> That is kind of what me and Glenn is work on, it is more like WA22 and WA5 combined.  5U4G/3DG4, C3g, and 300B.


 
 I will wait for impressions and pics on this amp. It sounds like it will be a great build. I will more than likely get this. I wonder will it have a pair of 300b?


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> _Emerging..._


 
 Exciting times! What will go on top? Some Glenn paraphernalia?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oskari said:


> Which, in this case, means General Electronics, not General Electric.




Yes!!

Thanks! I was gonna recheck cause i thought thats what it was. But wasnt at home and forgot to check. 

It is general electronics


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *magiccabbage* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> Exciting times! What will go on top? Some Glenn paraphernalia?


 
  
 Not enough real estate. Still searching for furniture to use for everything in one spot.


----------



## longbowbbs

rnadell said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn's is better because you don't have one....
> ...


 
 Richard that is great! Looking forward to your impressions and a fun comparison!


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> Not enough real estate. Still searching for furniture to use for everything in one spot.


 
  I think Mapleshade has just the thing for you.


----------



## longbowbbs

wotts said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > Not enough real estate. Still searching for furniture to use for everything in one spot.
> ...


 
 Oh yeah...I have the new catalog right here....


----------



## wotts

I was thinking about ordering a rack from them, but I don't think the SX-1980 will fit.


----------



## Silent One

Silent notes made audible... _and visible._
  
  
 "A Beautiful Thing To See"
  
 It happened earlier this year, though I'm not certain exactly when. I suspect mid-year, Summer 2013. I found myself staring off in the distance and daydreaming. As luck would have it, the general direction was East and toward N.C. State. And there it was! Hidden from view, much the way an amp is when packaged for shipping, a new rhythm from the studio had emerged. A rhythm with new eloquence and efficiency.
  
 While the wonderfully spec'd and beautiful builds get all the attention and credit, the new rhythm behind them is _a beautiful thing to see... and appreciate. _How much is owed to his recent vacation, I'll never know. Must have been some kind of rejuvenation
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 'cause his return took the studio to the next level.


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I was thinking about ordering a rack from them, but I don't think the SX-1980 will fit.


 
  
 Sansui engineers had the foresight to split it up.


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> wotts said:
> 
> 
> > I think Mapleshade has just the thing for you.
> ...


 
  





 For those of you with cash inside wallets, not tea tins...


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > wotts said:
> ...


 
 Mapleshade=FULL RETAIL!!.....and then some.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It is neat gear and accessories though.


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah... been sippin' some on their kool-aid a bit myself.


----------



## 2359glenn

Today was a learning experience.
In the amp I just built I used a different brand capacitors then I normally use.
And the amp sounded like crap the music had no life to it and less bass.
So I changed them to the Sprague capacitors that I normally use .
Turned on the amp and it was back to holey crap that sounds good.
I figured if the value was the same how much different can it sound ? Allot
different.

So now the amp sounds great again to be backed tomorrow for shipment on Monday.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> Today was a learning experience.
> In the amp I just built I used a different brand capacitors then I normally use.
> And the amp sounded like crap the music had no life to it and less bass.
> So I changed them to the Sprague capacitors that I normally use .
> ...


 
 The OTL for DG?


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Today was a learning experience.
> In the amp I just built I used a different brand capacitors then I normally use.
> And the amp sounded like crap the music had no life to it and less bass.
> So I changed them to the Sprague capacitors that I normally use .
> ...


 
 Good thing you dry test every amp for couple days.


----------



## dminches

It is also possible that those caps may have needed additional burn in time. I guess you never know.


----------



## dminches

I hope this cap sounds good...


----------



## Clayton SF

^ how much did that cap cost?


----------



## dminches

$190 ea.  One needs 2!


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice David!!!!!!!!


----------



## jc9394

Getting ready for the next Glenn amp...


----------



## Neogeo333

jc9394 said:


> Getting ready for the next Glenn amp...




You too? I just ordered a pair c3g\s too. It was either those or a type 10. Then Glenn said I would need a pre to used the 10. Those globe 10 sure are expensive now, so I went the other route.


----------



## rnadell

Wow, Glenn must work 24/7 to build all these amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> The OTL for DG?


 
 Yes and it sounds great now.
  


jc9394 said:


> Good thing you dry test every amp for couple days.


 
  
 I run and listen for at least 48 hrs I used to run them for a week 24hrs a day.


dminches said:


> It is also possible that those caps may have needed additional burn in time. I guess you never know.


 
 Burn in won't make that big of a change.
  


jc9394 said:


> Getting ready for the next Glenn amp...


 
 Are these the good ones that say POST on them ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

If they're from the German guy I posted, these are the normal ones without "Post"


----------



## jc9394

It is from Dutch.


----------



## Ultrainferno

so Post or not?


----------



## jc9394

It is the German guy but shipped from Dutch...  how do I tell it is post or not?
  
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-new-Tube-C3g-C3gS-NOS-Siemens-Post-rohre-/380760088542?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item58a711dfde


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> If they're from the German guy I posted, these are the normal ones without "Post"


 

 It shouldn't really mater they were all made in the same factory.


----------



## jc9394

It does said post on the listing title.


----------



## Ultrainferno

open the box. if the top says post, they're post.
 Clayton's are post, and mine are "normal" in the pics in this thread
 But they should be all the same like Glenn says.


----------



## jc9394

Not on the top but it does have post labeled on the side.


----------



## Clayton SF

Post
 Gabl


----------



## Ultrainferno

Top markings are different too


----------



## jc9394

Nice, all four has the same label. May be I should get another 4?


----------



## Clayton SF

I think each C3g tube is rated at 10 thousand hours so I think you're set 
 I read somewhere that the Post tubes are of higher rating even though they came from the same factory.


----------



## jc9394

My top marking is the same as Clayton.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Nice!


----------



## 2359glenn

JC's amp using the RK-60 Rectifier


----------



## john57

That is very neat Glenn!


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> JC's amp using the RK-60 Rectifier


 
  
 But but, I don't have any RK60 yet.


----------



## 2359glenn

DG does and asked for the adapter I am going to ship it with the amp.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> DG does and asked for the adapter I am going to ship it with the amp.


 

 I know, her source have only one RK60.  I'm waiting for responses I sent to the supplier on last Friday


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> I know, her source have only one RK60.  I'm waiting for responses I sent to the supplier on last Friday


 
  
 im hoping theres a group buy soon so we can all get some! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 im really interested in what the rk60 sounds like. whether its poor man's 596, or just different altogether, will be interesting.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> JC's amp using the RK-60 Rectifier


 
 JC is going to love that amp!


----------



## magiccabbage

that amp is really nice


----------



## jc9394

longbowbbs said:


> JC is going to love that amp!


 
 Yep, I will love it.  Can't wait...it will detour to windy city for some deep dish pizza first.


----------



## magiccabbage

I WAN T A SET 300B MADE BY GLENN.  Glenn we need to talk about that. Sometime early next year i hope to have one built. An amp to power LCD3, HD800 and T1. I just sold another pile of records so i have the cash now. I just need to figure out the details.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > JC is going to love that amp!
> ...


 





 Your amp materialized so fast, I'm _suspicious. _Could the studio already be in holiday production mode... with Elves, no less?!


----------



## Ultrainferno

magiccabbage said:


> I WAN T A SET 300B MADE BY GLENN.  Glenn we need to talk about that. Sometime early next year i hope to have one built. An amp to power LCD3, HD800 and T1. I just sold another pile of records so i have the cash now. I just need to figure out the details.


 
  
 My 300b doesn't do high impedance, I hope yours does and then I'll be jealous. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Nice amp JC/Glenn, I'll probably get an OTL in '14 as well. But the next revision of course


----------



## Xcalibur255

neogeo333 said:


> You too? I just ordered a pair c3g\s too. It was either those or a type 10. Then Glenn said I would need a pre to used the 10. Those globe 10 sure are expensive now, so I went the other route.


 

 My amp was originally going to use the 10.  We feared it was not going to have enough gain and came up with the alternative C3g that has been working out so well now.  Still wish I could have heard the 10, it is described with nothing but reverence by the people who use them.  They last foreeeeever with those thoriated tungesten filaments too.


----------



## Xcalibur255

ultrainferno said:


> My 300b doesn't do high impedance, I hope yours does and then I'll be jealous.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think to really make these work for high impedance we would have to have custom OPTs wound with a high impedance secondary tap.  Electra-Print could do it, you could have an 8 ohm tap and a 120 ohm tap for example but it costs a lot more.  Then you just do an impedance selector like Woo and a dozen other makers use.


----------



## Xcalibur255

On the subject of C3g:  the ones marked POST were the batch runs made for Deutsch Telecom as a final buyout so they would have inventory available to run their obsolete equipment.  The ones without the POST marking were made for the German military.  According to Jac there is no difference between the two.  People prefer the POST ones because the very high run volumes supposedly help ensure good build consistency from tube to tube, but really I doubt it matters at all.  I have some of each, the non-POST ones are what is in my amp right now.


----------



## Clayton SF

xcalibur255 said:


> On the subject of C3g:  the ones marked POST were the batch runs made for Deutsch Telecom as a final buyout so they would have inventory available to run their obsolete equipment.  The ones without the POST marking were made for the German military.  According to Jac there is no difference between the two.  People prefer the POST ones because the very high run volumes supposedly help ensure good build consistency from tube to tube, but really I doubt it matters at all.  I have some of each, the non-POST ones are what is in my amp right now.


 
  
 Thanks! I knew you'd know.


----------



## Neogeo333

xcalibur255 said:


> I think to really make these work for high impedance we would have to have custom OPTs wound with a high impedance secondary tap.  Electra-Print could do it, you could have an 8 ohm tap and a 120 ohm tap for example but it costs a lot more.  Then you just do an impedance selector like Woo and a dozen other makers use.




Your correct, Glenn says its the gain issue. I was thinking on a 300b amp that would be my last tube amp. At least for a long long time. Still plenty of time to figure this out since I'm still greatly enjoying my otl amp.

opps wrong quote.


----------



## jc9394

300B is really nice, was listening to WA5LE before the game, it pairs HD800 very very well.

Can't wait how Glenn's offer with 5U4G/C3g/300B will sounds like.


----------



## Neogeo333

Its been too long since I heard a 300b amp. last time was like 8 years ago. Some 300b amp running a Lowther speakers that was made in India I think. Forgot how it sounded back then. Can anyone describe it sound let say compared to the Glenn otl running 6as7?


----------



## jc9394

Maybe Clayton? He probably the only one have both from Glenn.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Maybe Clayton? He probably the only one have both from Glenn.


 

 My OTL is a headphone amp and my 300B is a speaker amp. So I can't really compare the sound using one type of headphone. However, the OTL is incredibly bold, vibrantly reproducing sound and the 300B seems to be much more transparent in the reproduction of sound. At least coming out of my Zu Audio Omen speakers. The 300B, compared to the OTL, sounds lighter to the heavier sounding OTL. Both have their niche and both are enjoyable.


----------



## jc9394

300B driving the Omen? I will bring sushi and sake next time in SF...


----------



## Neogeo333

You guys in the states get all the fun.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ YES! Welcome aboard, sir. We shall sail the seven seas on the USS Glenn Amp. You know, _*Sanraku*_ is only a few blocks from my apartment.


----------



## jc9394

Yeah, still try to remember how I stumbled back to my hotel...


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Yeah, still try to remember how I stumbled back to my hotel...


 

 And I stumbled back home. That was a great evening.


----------



## Neogeo333

Permission to come on board Captain.


----------



## Xcalibur255

clayton sf said:


> My OTL is a headphone amp and my 300B is a speaker amp. So I can't really compare the sound using one type of headphone. However, the OTL is incredibly bold, vibrantly reproducing sound and the 300B seems to be much more transparent in the reproduction of sound. At least coming out of my Zu Audio Omen speakers. The 300B, compared to the OTL, sounds lighter to the heavier sounding OTL. Both have their niche and both are enjoyable.


 
 It's like the OTL makes the air around the instruments feel heavier somehow, right?  It's easy to see why people love the HD800 with the OTL.


----------



## Neogeo333

Hmm, would you say the OTL has more grunt?  While 300b sounds more mellow?  Would the OTL have the upper hand on music with more bass?  The the 300b would be better with vocals?


----------



## Clayton SF

xcalibur255 said:


> It's like the OTL makes the air around the instruments feel heavier somehow, right?  It's easy to see why people love the HD800 with the OTL.


 
 There's an underlying presence that the OTL has. It has body.
  


neogeo333 said:


> Hmm, would you say the OTL has more grunt?  While 300b sounds more mellow?  Would the OTL have the upper hand on music with more bass?  The the 300b would be better with vocals?


 
 I'd say that the 300b has a delicate touch. The OTL and the 300b handle vocals well, but I feel that the 300b has a more natural sound. The OTL has punch-presence. The 300b has live presence. The 300b is great with vocals and acoustic music.


----------



## jc9394

One of my Sophia have abnormal glow, is this normal?  It is only visible on the pics.


----------



## Neogeo333

Ohh I see.  Thanks Clayton.  I guess I need to find a place in NY to listen to a 300b amp to refresh my memories.  Going there for Christmas I hope.


----------



## Xcalibur255

That looks like the fluorescence my Tung Sol 45 shows.  It's from stray electrons hitting the glass.  I was a little worried too the first time I saw it.
  
 As long as you don't get a purple hazy cloud that is centered inside the plates you are fine.


----------



## jc9394

No purple hazy. Thanks


----------



## Silent One

Okay Jimi!


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> One of my Sophia have abnormal glow, is this normal?  It is only visible on the pics.


 
  
 It is when you live with Ghosts. Looking at the pix, the glow isn't limited to Miss Sophia on the right, but also the driver... everything to the right ain't right....er... is glowing abnormally.


----------



## Neogeo333

jc9394 said:


> One of my Sophia have abnormal glow, is this normal?  It is only visible on the pics.


 

 Put your finger on the glass see if it has the plasma ball effect.


----------



## longbowbbs

Yeah..If your hair stands up then the tube is OK...


----------



## jc9394

neogeo333 said:


> Put your finger on the glass see if it has the plasma ball effect.




Sure, let's start with yours first. I don't need anymore burns on my hands.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> neogeo333 said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm, would you say the OTL has more grunt?  While 300b sounds more mellow?  Would the OTL have the upper hand on music with more bass?  The the 300b would be better with vocals?
> ...


 
  





 I like this description. Saturday afternoon, I was in-session with Matt (Pitch Perfect Audio), a terrific host as usual. Waiting for me was a pair of fully warmed-up Shindo Laboratory 300B monaural blocks with NOS WE Glass in the slots. I had my way with 'em for the first hour, then he swapped in my F2a monos for the next couple of hours.
  
 The first few notes made it easily apparent that the 300B glass were about tone... _magic in the middle. _I began the session with none other than Louis Armstrong... Satchmo... on vinyl! 
  
  
 I just bought disclaimers, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




a Dime a dozen...
  
 ...Yes, I was in an elevated mood. Yes, it's been several moons since I last heard 300Bs. And yes, it's been several months since my last session with a full-size rig. And the studio loft isn't fully treated. So, now that we know a pinch of salt in this post is equal to a grain of salt in reality... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
 Anyway,_ that _horn, the piano, cymbals and vocals all emanating from the large field coil speakers... _a whole lotta magic_. Tonally, things just sounded right. And notes took instruction and followed them. Completely. No mangled or abandoned notes before a proper finish/decay.
  
 Louis and the Boys were in the room, pleasantly so.


----------



## rosgr63

neogeo333 said:


> Your correct, Glenn says its the gain issue. I was thinking on a 300b amp that would be my last tube amp. At least for a long long time. Still plenty of time to figure this out since I'm still greatly enjoying my otl amp.
> 
> opps wrong quote.


 
  
 There is no Ultimate amp be it SS or tube.
  


neogeo333 said:


> Hmm, would you say the OTL has more grunt?  While 300b sounds more mellow?  Would the OTL have the upper hand on music with more bass?  The the 300b would be better with vocals?


 
  
 I am running two 300B based headphone amps and a few OTLs.
 They all sound different, a lot depends on tube selection, how responsive the amps are to tube rolling and system synergy.
  


longbowbbs said:


> Yeah..If your hair stands up then the tube is OK...


 
  
 Eric that's my way of testing.


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> There is no Ultimate amp be it SS or tube.


 





 I'm in your camp on this...


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> Louis and the Boys were in the room, pleasantly so.


 
 What a great evening!


----------



## Neogeo333

Anyone know which VT25 or 10Y tubes have the thoriated tungsten? Some of them are oxided coated but which one which?


----------



## 2359glenn

The ones with the smaller plate company's likeRCA made them both ways but the throated always had the smaller plate


----------



## Neogeo333

a





2359glenn said:


> The ones with the smaller plate company's likeRCA made them both ways but the throated always had the smaller plate




Thanks Glenn. Just took my pre out from storage and forgot the darn thing have a gain dial. So my future dht amp might use the type 10 after all.


----------



## 2359glenn

What is the SQ of this preamp ??

If this isn't a high quality preamp the SQ will only be as good as the preamp.

Is it tube or SS ?

I ask this because my amps are a # 10 driving a 300B with a preamp using a # 26 DHT
When I built Clayton's amps and Ultra's amp with the C3g driver it sounded as good everything was the same
same output transformers the only difference was the driver. If I was going to do it allover again I would use
the C3g and omit the preamp.


----------



## Neogeo333

Tube rectifier (6X4). A pair of 12AX7 tubes are the input/gain stages. 12AU7 tubes are also employed in the feedback loop of the gain control. Some specifications: Maximum output voltage: 20V Frequency response; 15Hz-60KHz (+-1dB) THD:0.8% (1KHz) Output impedance: 1K Signal to noise: 90dB.

Its the Eastern Electric Avant. Got it 2 year ago before committing mostly to headphones. Hope that helps.


----------



## 2359glenn

I don't know if you want to use anything with feed back

You can try to hook it up to the OTL put the tone controls on flat and see how much it changes the sound.
Turn down the volume on the OTL and use the volume on the preamp. 
This should give you a idea how much it changes the sound.


----------



## rnadell

Pair of 300B Sophia carbon plate tubes for sale on Audio Circle.


----------



## jc9394

They won't let new user send pm.


----------



## rnadell

Are you interested? If so maybe I could help as I am a user with privilege.


----------



## jc9394

rnadell said:


> Are you interested? If so maybe I could help as I am a user with privilege.


 

 Thanks but I think I will pass, I have the Sophia 300B mesh already and like to save up for the EML.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Thanks but I think I will pass, I have the Sophia 300B mesh already and like to save up for the EML.


 
  
 sell all and buy these + a pair of 422A, then your journey will be over.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-300B-matched-pair-s-n-211551-211552-manufactured-2-19-1998-/141107127953?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20daa3e691


----------



## Frank I

Those are reissues that were selling for 800.00 pair in 1998. They are not the original 300B


----------



## jc9394

I will pay up to $1200 with the reissue, definitely not anything more.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

they rare now though


----------



## Silent One

My rig is slowly emerging. The monaural amps were designed around the storied Siemens F2a power tube. The glass has its roots in 1950s German Cinema, in the same way Western Electric 300Bs has its roots in 1930s cinema over here.


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> I will pay up to $1200 with the reissue, definitely not anything more.


 
 For that price you may as well add 300 more and get the price japan Japanese tubes you like.


----------



## Frank I

silent one said:


> My rig is slowly emerging. The monaural amps were designed around the storied Siemens F2a power tube. The glass has its roots in 1950s German Cinema, in the same way Western Electric 300Bs has its roots in 1930s cinema over here.


 
 The setup looks terrific and yes my friend it not is evolving IT HAS EVOLVED. Beautiful stuff


----------



## Silent One

Thanks kindly...


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> My rig is slowly emerging. The monaural amps were designed around the storied Siemens F2a power tube. The glass has its roots in 1950s German Cinema, in the same way Western Electric 300Bs has its roots in 1930s cinema over here.


 
 wow


----------



## Clayton SF

Where the hay are Glenn's amps? MIA 
 Diversion is good.


----------



## Silent One

Winter 2014 (at least that's my optimism)


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looks nice SO! Finally some pictures


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice system SO, well done!!!!!!!
  
 Talking about rare tubes, the WE 300B are expensive but not rare.
  
 The RCA CRC 38142 with Nickel Plates are rare.


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> For that price you may as well add 300 more and get the price japan Japanese tubes you like.


 
  
 Yes and I will be in Japan this weekend.  I will try to find it.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> My rig is slowly emerging. The monaural amps were designed around the storied Siemens F2a power tube. The glass has its roots in 1950s German Cinema, in the same way Western Electric 300Bs has its roots in 1930s cinema over here.


 
  
  
 Very nice, too bad my flight to Japan only stop at SFO not LAX.


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> Yes and I will be in Japan this weekend.  I will try to find it.


 
 cool let me know how you make out. Remember the pricejapan price is like 1594.00 shipped so thats your starting point. I will be with George Lenz on Saturday and ask him about the KR balloons.


----------



## daigo

frank i said:


> cool let me know how you make out. Remember the pricejapan price is like 1594.00 shipped so thats your starting point. I will be with George Lenz on Saturday and ask him about the KR balloons.


 
  
 Are you referring to the Takatsuki TA-300B's?


----------



## jc9394

daigo said:


> Are you referring to the Takatsuki TA-300B's?




Yes


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Looks nice SO! Finally some pictures


 
  
  


rosgr63 said:


> Very nice system SO, well done!!!!!!!
> 
> Talking about rare tubes, the WE 300B are expensive but not rare.
> 
> The RCA CRC 38142 with Nickel Plates are rare.


 
  
 Thanks. A lot of sorting remains, the placement of components are too crowded for my tastes.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Very nice, too bad my flight to Japan only stop at SFO not LAX.


 
  
 Forget LAX, show me NRT! It'd be a lot more fun meeting/hangin' with you over there at this time. My rig is far from being finished, only entering the testing phase this weekend. This past weekend, I have learned that the box housing my MMF-7 is unaccounted for. I will refrain from using the "S" word until I go over all boxes in storage a third time.
  
 And only then will shout _stolen_.


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> My rig is slowly emerging. The monaural amps were designed around the storied Siemens F2a power tube. The glass has its roots in 1950s German Cinema, in the same way Western Electric 300Bs has its roots in 1930s cinema over here.


 
 Looks great SO what speakers are you using? or just headphones


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Forget LAX, show me NRT! It'd be a lot more fun meeting/hangin' with you over there at this time. My rig is far from being finished, only entering the testing phase this weekend. This past weekend, I have learned that the box housing my MMF-7 is unaccounted for. I will refrain from using the "S" word until I go over all boxes in storage a third time.
> 
> And only then will shout _stolen_.


 
  
 I wish is NRT, it is KIX hope it is as fun as NRT.


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *2359glenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks kindly. But please know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my upcoming *2359glenn 300B monos* have a spot reserved for them.
  
 I will eventually get some DeVores - model not yet decided. Meanwhile, I've got the HE-6 via HE-Adapter. I do not like this adapter... I want my money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




back. I thought I would need it for both my vintage receiver from the speaker taps to protect my vintage lovely, as well as the tube amps. 
  
 Further, I like going direct to speaker taps w/4-pin XLR pigtails versus this adapter. Same with the tube amps. I'd rather slap some high quality resistors on the speaker taps of the tube amps and go _piggy._
  
 However...
  
 We could revisit the magic box we discussed earlier this year, so I could use the HD650 as well without having to get a new headphone cable for the Senns. Will send a follow-up PM after lunch.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I wish is NRT, it is KIX hope it is as fun as NRT.


 
  





 I just want you to touch down safely on the island, no matter where the fun is to come from.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I just want you to touch down safely on the island, no matter where the fun is to come from.


 
  
 Thanks, I will head over to HKG  for few days after the meeting.  I will PM Dannie01 to check on him...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Thanks, I will head over to HKG  for few days after the meeting.  I will PM Dannie01 to check on him...


 
  
 Please send my regards. I thank him for my _WA 6 Special Edition _journey.


----------



## dminches

I have all the parts ordered for my Glenn 300B HP amp. I just need Master Glenn to put it together. I need to come up with a name. I am thinking of "GR 300B Long Island Special".


----------



## Ultrainferno

My 300b amp (speaker) spikes arrived. Woohoo! I'm still waiting for the new volume control and input selector.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> I have all the parts ordered for my Glenn 300B HP amp. I just need Master Glenn to put it together. I need to come up with a name. I am thinking of "GR 300B Long Island Special".


 
 That is the perfect name for this amp might be the only one with 40 ohms output impedance.


----------



## Silent One

dminches said:


> I have all the parts ordered for my Glenn 300B HP amp. I just need Master Glenn to put it together. I need to come up with a name. I am thinking of *"GR 300B Long Island Special".*


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> That is the perfect name for this amp might be the only one with 40 ohms output impedance.


 
  
 What's the Output Impedance of the previous 300B versions?


----------



## 2359glenn

4-8-or 16 ohms for speakers


----------



## Xcalibur255

What's the output impedance on my amp?


----------



## kazsud

The hdva600 is 40 ohms. I think that's why it has nice bass


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> What's the output impedance on my amp?


 

 It is 16 ohms those transformers didn't have as many options as these.
 I can also wire them for 80 0hms
 So I can make the 300B amp 4-8-16-40-80


----------



## Xcalibur255

If an amp were switchable between 8 and 80 that would probably make it a pinch hitter that could suit a broader range of headphones. 
  
 It seems like most of the new headphones are heading towards low impedance though.  Aside from the HD800 and T1 most of them are double digit it seems.
  
 Relatively speaking where would you say things "run out of gas" in terms of impedance matching Glenn?  Based on my personal experience I feel like I'm good to at least 100 ohms but I have few headphones to test with and I don't understand the electrical principles behind it like you do.


----------



## Silent One

The trend offering low impedance is real...


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> It is 16 ohms those transformers didn't have as many options as these.
> I can also wire them for 80 0hms
> So I can make the 300B amp 4-8-16-40-80


 
  
 Oh my... that's some great pre-holiday news out of the studio.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Please send my regards. I thank him for my _WA 6 Special Edition _journey.


 

 Woohoo, dannie01 replied we may meet up for a drink.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


>


 











  That's great!


----------



## rosgr63

silent one said:


> The trend offering low impedance is real...


 
  
 Trends change...........


----------



## Xcalibur255

Which is why I wanted to have a good idea of what my limitations are.


----------



## Frank I

daigo said:


> Are you referring to the Takatsuki TA-300B's?


 
 Yes


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Trends change...........


 
  





 Maybe I should grab a couple of cans between 600-1800 Ohms while the gettin' is still good.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

The Glenn amp has arrived.....
  
 the box alone surprised me, its huge!! and its completely covered in tape, very well packaged, even if the box split open, the tape itself would probably hold everything together.
  

  
  
 then i opened the box and everything was protected with giant foam noodles! its like the coolest thing ever, i would of never thought of using that! 
  

  
  
 and the amp, i'm just setting it up right now, its heavy! and the build quality looks incredible, definitely on par if not better than the woo amps. very heavy very solid feeling. and the on button, i love it!!! it has a nice heavy satisfying click when you press it. 
  

  
  
 so now the listening begins.... putting in some cheap tubes for now to gete an idea of the amp. (Sylvania 5U4G, RCA 6AS7G, Grey glass 6SN7). Next, the two 3DG4 tubes he included (Lindal and Sylvania branded) and maybe my new spare GEC curveds that also arrived!


----------



## Neogeo333

congrats DG. Now take one of the foam tubes a pretend to be a Jedi.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

listening now....
  
  
 sounds WA2-like but more dynamic and the bass, its definitely the OTL bass i missed so much


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> Woohoo, dannie01 replied we may meet up for a drink.


 

 If you meet up tell him I said Hi  He hasn't been on for a long while.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> The Glenn amp has arrived.....
> 
> the box alone surprised me, its huge!! and its completely covered in tape, very well packaged, even if the box split open, the tape itself would probably hold everything together.
> 
> ...


 
 Have you got the 6336 tubes and you could try them for me with LCD3 - please and he500


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> listening now....
> 
> 
> sounds WA2-like but more dynamic and the bass, its definitely the OTL bass i missed so much


 

 I hope you continue to like it.
 The dynamics might improve with the 3DG4 or GZ37 or WE422 rectifiers


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> I hope you continue to like it.
> The dynamics might improve with the 3DG4 or GZ37 or WE422 rectifiers


 
  
 i put 3DG4 in right now. seems like it has more power than 5U4G. i have to many tubes to roll i don't know where to start though.
  
 ill try those out though.
  
 btw does GZ32 and U52 work as well?


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> listening now....
> 
> 
> sounds WA2-like but more dynamic and the bass, its definitely the OTL bass i missed so much


----------



## daigo

dubstep girl said:


> listening now....
> 
> 
> sounds WA2-like but more dynamic and the bass, its definitely the OTL bass i missed so much


 
  
 That new amp experience is so much fun.  Enjoy the tube rolling!


----------



## magiccabbage

Yea i hope its a keeper. It looks amazing.


----------



## jc9394

DG, find me the best tubes combo. I'm too lazy...


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> i put 3DG4 in right now. seems like it has more power than 5U4G. i have to many tubes to roll i don't know where to start though.
> 
> ill try those out though.
> 
> btw does GZ32 and U52 work as well?


 

 No GZ32 not high enough current GZ34 is OK though. I am not familiar with the U52 hold off on that one till I get back to you on that one


----------



## GrindingThud

Congrats and so good to hear you like it and that it has that OTL magic! Now I really want one. 



dubstep girl said:


> listening now....
> 
> 
> sounds WA2-like but more dynamic and the bass, its definitely the OTL bass i missed so much


----------



## Dubstep Girl

been listening for a few hours, and well, this amp is very good. still have to get used to the sound before i post some solid impressions. as of now, it sounds as good if not better than the woos. i can see it easily costing 3 times its price. even with stock tubes, the glenn amp sounds incredibly good!
  
 i still have a ton of tubes to try out. but i decided to just try some of the best i had, and well, the WE422A, yeah its incredible.
  
  i have all sorts of impressions on the other tubes, but as soon as i put this tube in. it just hits me, that air, that emotion, almost brings you to tears as soon as you hear it, its beautiful, the music, its unreal, its so pure, the tone is the most beautiful i've heard, the details, the holography, it just so good, i can't even describe it, it just draws you in to the music and you don't want to do anything else but just listen and connect. 
  
 anyways, i bought another one cause they seem to running out on ebay.


----------



## longbowbbs

Congrats DG....It will be fun to follow your tube rolling with the new amp.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> been listening for a few hours, and well, this amp is very good. still have to get used to the sound before i post some solid impressions. as of now, it sounds as good if not better than the woos. i can see it easily costing 3 times its price. even with stock tubes, the glenn amp sounds incredibly good!
> 
> i still have a ton of tubes to try out. but i decided to just try some of the best i had, and well, the WE422A, yeah its incredible.
> 
> ...


 
 HD800 or T1?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> HD800 or T1?


 
 both.


----------



## jc9394

Nice DG, does the WEs have more gain than the GEC?  How does the WE rectifier compare to 3DG4?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Nice DG, does the WEs have more gain than the GEC?  How does the WE rectifier compare to 3DG4?


 
  
 3DG4 is surprisingly good. 
  
 honestly alot of the cheap rectifiers, not too much difference. some of the nicer ones so far, not a huge difference, not till u get to the expensive ones. they all sound good actually. these are all brief listens though, i have to take time to listen to tubes longer as well as when the amp is burned in and i get a feel for its general sound signature. its nothing like the woo amps where the cheap tubes make the amp sound like crap and you need to upgrade. sounds like this amp sounds pretty alright with cheap stock tubes.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> 3DG4 is surprisingly good.
> 
> honestly alot of the cheap rectifiers, not too much difference. some of the nicer ones so far, not a huge difference, not till u get to the expensive ones. they all sound good actually. these are all brief listens though, i have to take time to listen to tubes longer as well as when the amp is burned in and i get a feel for its general sound signature. its nothing like the woo amps where the cheap tubes make the amp sound like crap and you need to upgrade. sounds like this amp sounds pretty alright with cheap stock tubes.


 
 This is great stuff. Have you got 6336 tubes lying around? Maybe after a while you could say if it compares to WA2/GEC6a7sg with HD800?


----------



## magiccabbage

oh and what is the bass like????


----------



## jc9394

Sounding good with cheap tubes is Glenn's objective.  Maybe this OTL good enough that I will sell the WA5LE and wait for the Glenn 5U4G (maybe 3DG4), C3g, and 300B.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Sounding good with cheap tubes is Glenn's objective.  Maybe this OTL good enough that I will sell the WA5LE and wait for the Glenn 5U4G (maybe 3DG4), C3g, and 300B.


 
  
 oh i don't know how good the WA5LE is, it might not be. but who knows. this amp sounds pretty good....
  


magiccabbage said:


> oh and what is the bass like????


 
  
 thats the best part, it actually has bass unlike the WA22 which i found sacrificed too much bass in order to get a huge hd 800 like soundstage.


----------



## Neogeo333

dubstep girl said:


> 3DG4 is surprisingly good.
> 
> honestly alot of the cheap rectifiers, not too much difference. some of the nicer ones so far, not a huge difference, not till u get to the expensive ones. they all sound good actually. these are all brief listens though, i have to take time to listen to tubes longer as well as when the amp is burned in and i get a feel for its general sound signature. its nothing like the woo amps where the cheap tubes make the amp sound like crap and you need to upgrade. sounds like this amp sounds pretty alright with cheap stock tubes.


 

 Keep using the 3dg4, one week with it and one week with a GZ37, I could not hear much difference.  Maybe the GZ37 have a bit more airy sound but thats about it.  Saving those for my Glenn DHT.
  
 Glenn, can I use a 422A in my otl?  I dont see why but would like to ask first.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

neogeo333 said:


> Keep using the 3dg4, one week with it and one week with a GZ37, I could not hear much difference.  Maybe the GZ37 have a bit more airy sound but thats about it.  Saving those for my Glenn DHT.
> 
> Glenn, can I use a 422A in my otl?  I dont see why but would like to ask first.


 
 im finding it hard to hear a difference with some of the rectifiers.. 
  
 the cossor gz37 seems like a nice upgrade. 
  
 and the 422A was the most noticeable change in the tubes. like all the other really good tubes i've heard, its really hard to find any flaws in its sound, its like they're near perfect.


----------



## Neogeo333

DG, I can hear my wallet weep.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> im finding it hard to hear a difference with some of the rectifiers..
> 
> the cossor gz37 seems like a nice upgrade.
> 
> and the 422A was the most noticeable change in the tubes. like all the other really good tubes i've heard, its really hard to find any flaws in its sound, its like they're near perfect.


 
 Did you gt your on ebay? - its kinda hard to find these, through google search anyway. 
  
 You should take a pic of the Glenn and the GSX beside each other, they are both black with silver fronts i bet they look really good side by side.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> Did you gt your on ebay? - its kinda hard to find these, through google search anyway.
> 
> You should take a pic of the Glenn and the GSX beside each other, they are both black with silver fronts i bet they look really good side by side.


 
  
 i will soon! 
  
 yeah i got all mine on ebay.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> i will soon!
> 
> yeah i got all mine on ebay.


 
 I wonder what Santa will bring this year?


----------



## rosgr63

jc9394 said:


> Woohoo, dannie01 replied we may meet up for a drink.


 
  
 Please say hello to Danny from me too.
 It's been sometime since we spoke.


----------



## Silent One

This was my reaction to DG's unboxing... complete with giant foam noodles!


----------



## Silent One

If I'm pulling out Long Playing records tonight, you know what that means?! That's right! I finally located the missing TT tonight! I was gonna wait till Fri/Sat, but with all the excitement in today's thread, I went for it. So time to shake it up with, well, The Cars and "Shake It Up", Funk Inc "Chicken Lickin' ", Side Effect "Goin' Bananas" and Astrud Gilberto "The Shadow of Your Smile." 
  
 Been searching for two months - twice in the last four days. Turns out, it was the only audio piece NOT inside all the boxes labeled audio. Rather, "Kitchen Essentials"........... at the very bottom! Each time I looked through each and every box, with that one I'd dig just over half way then close it up and re-tape. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Tonight, I emptied ALL of the contents with each box and found it on the bottom. So, we're in for a overnight test drive from 0100 hrs to 0400 hrs.


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> :wink_face:  If I'm pulling out Long Playing records tonight, you know what that means?! That's right! I finally located the missing TT tonight! I was gonna wait till Fri/Sat, but with all the excitement in today's thread, I went for it. So time to shake it up with, well, The Cars and "Shake It Up", Funk Inc "Chicken Lickin' ", Side Effect "Goin' Bananas" and Astrud Gilberto "The Shadow of Your Smile."
> 
> Been searching for two months - twice in the last four days. Turns out, it was the only audio piece NOT inside all the boxes labeled audio. Rather, "Kitchen Essentials"........... at the very bottom! Each time I looked through each and every box, with that one I'd dig just over half way then close it up and re-tape. :rolleyes:
> 
> Tonight, I emptied ALL of the contents with each box and found it on the bottom. So, we're in for a overnight test drive from 0100 hrs to 0400 hrs.




I'm relieved to hear the TT is safe! I'll give The Cars a listen as well to celebrate.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Congrats DG! It looks really good. I PM'ed Glenn to check for an OTL myself next to my 300b amp.
 Have you tried orthos with it?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Btw, I will be putting lots of stuff up for sale this weekend, it's that time of the year. Anyone interested in a Beyerdynamic T70 that's as good as new and has hardly been used?


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I'm relieved to hear the TT is safe! I'll give The Cars a listen as well to celebrate.


 
  
 I wasn't at all trying to be punctual, but I did flip the switch @ 0100 hrs to warm things up a bit. It's common for me to book my own listening sessions. And since I have an idea when I'll be sitting-in, I'll warm up the rig some 2 to 4 hours ahead of time. If I get busy and a delayed start, then the sweeter the juice. 
  
 I lack "Candy-O" on vinyl; CD only. If the new rig sounds okay with vinyl inside the room, I'll order it Friday... Mo-Fi or sumthin'. What I'm really looking forward to is hearing the limited edition 45rpm of Astrud Gilberto I got. Her sweet and delicate feather light vocals 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




have a _decay to die for _on some tracks. Tubes & Astrud just go together... 'Clayton SF' knows what I'm talkin' 'bout!


----------



## jc9394

rosgr63 said:


> Please say hello to Danny from me too.
> It's been sometime since we spoke.




Will do, hope we have time to meet up.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I wasn't at all trying to be punctual, but I did flip the switch @ 0100 hrs to warm things up a bit. It's common for me to book my own listening sessions. And since I have an idea when I'll be sitting-in, I'll warm up the rig some 2 to 4 hours ahead of time. If I get busy and a delayed start, then the sweeter the juice.
> 
> I lack "Candy-O" on vinyl; CD only. If the new rig sounds okay with vinyl inside the room, I'll order it Friday... Mo-Fi or sumthin'. What I'm really looking forward to is hearing the limited edition 45rpm of Astrud Gilberto I got. Her sweet and delicate feather light vocals  have a _decay to die for_ on some tracks. Tubes & Astrud just go together... 'Clayton SF' knows what I'm talkin' 'bout! :wink_face:




Nice SO, finally allow your toys come out and play?


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Nice SO, finally allow your toys come out and play?


 
  






 Not the full rig but bits & pieces for testing the new toys only. Space is so tight, I'm processing records in the kitchen and then walk them over to the listening area. Right now though, I'm being challenged - an unexpected hum between Preamp and TT.
  
 I will likely retire for the morning and sort it out after lunch. Didn't get too far with evals tonight.


----------



## jc9394

Maybe the TT wants some of that coffee and food in the kitchen?


----------



## Silent One

Only Tea, Champagne and biscuits in the kitchen... OH and _soup for one, _talk about broke! But I'm gonna enjoy that Jasmine Dragon Pearl and Champagne 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




this weekend. Will try to wait until I get the hum sorted out. 
  





...
  
 I just dropped the needle on Astrud Gilberto. WOWZA!!!


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Only Tea, Champagne and biscuits in the kitchen... OH and _soup for one, _talk about broke! But I'm gonna enjoy that Jasmine Dragon Pearl and Champagne
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Do you prefer it to getz and gilberto?


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> Congrats DG! It looks really good. I PM'ed Glenn to check for an OTL myself next to my 300b amp.
> Have you tried orthos with it?


 
 +1


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> Do you prefer it to getz and gilberto?


 
  
 Yes, though I have and enjoy both works._ I love my Astrud..._


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Keep using the 3dg4, one week with it and one week with a GZ37, I could not hear much difference.  Maybe the GZ37 have a bit more airy sound but thats about it.  Saving those for my Glenn DHT.
> 
> Glenn, can I use a 422A in my otl?  I dont see why but would like to ask first.


 

 Yes you can use the 422A not sure how much difference it will make.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> 3DG4 is surprisingly good.
> 
> honestly alot of the cheap rectifiers, not too much difference. some of the nicer ones so far, not a huge difference, not till u get to the expensive ones. they all sound good actually. these are all brief listens though, i have to take time to listen to tubes longer as well as when the amp is burned in and i get a feel for its general sound signature. its nothing like the woo amps where the cheap tubes make the amp sound like crap and you need to upgrade. sounds like this amp sounds pretty alright with cheap stock tubes.


 

 When a amp is designed properly and the operating points of the tubes are right there is not much difference in the the sound of different brand tubes.
 So the cheep tubes sound almost as good as the expensive ones. At least there is not much difference.
  
 And you thought 6SN7s sounded crappy.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> When a amp is designed properly and the operating points of the tubes are right there is not much difference in the the sound of different brand tubes.


 
  
 That is an excellent point which is shared by many, if not most, tube amp designers.


----------



## 2359glenn

DG
  
 You can try the U52 it can handle 250ma that is more then a 5U4G at 220ma.
 Also the GZ34 is 250 ma so you can try that too.   Just not the GZ33
 Only the 3DG4 , 5AU4 , GZ37 , WE422A can handle 350ma that is why I recommend
 using these tubes. Only you have the 422A so I don't recommend this tube to other people.
 I would say these tubes will sound the best. And the 3DG4 can be gotten for $1.00 so if
 this tube sounds the same as the others use it and save the others.


----------



## Silent One

dminches, are you hitting the NY Show?


----------



## dminches

I am not, SO.  Are you?


----------



## Silent One

I wish. Maybe next year. Though, converging on your place in 2014 with thread members sounds more appealing.


----------



## dminches

That offer is still open if people can agree on a date.


----------



## Silent One

Enter your vote and have a chance to win a free USAF-596 High Altitude Rectifier from 'Silent One.' _(not really...)_


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> DG
> 
> You can try the U52 it can handle 250ma that is more then a 5U4G at 220ma.
> Also the GZ34 is 250 ma so you can try that too.   Just not the GZ33
> ...




Thanks!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> When a amp is designed properly and the operating points of the tubes are right there is not much difference in the the sound of different brand tubes.
> So the cheep tubes sound almost as good as the expensive ones. At least there is not much difference.
> 
> And you thought 6SN7s sounded crappy.





They sound much better than they did in the wa22. One thing though, i still notice a noise floor with them. I dunno if i have bad tubes or if its normal with 6sn7 tubes. With 6as7g its noticeable but more quiet. With the higher gain tubes, its more noise. Even with volume all the way down and no music playing. 






magiccabbage said:


> +1




Seems to do ok with orthos 

I have to listen more, but i think im gonna have to buy one of these amps for myself.


----------



## 2359glenn

The newer 6SN7GTB are quieter then the older 6SN7 many people don't like them. But I don't think
 it will make much difference in that amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> Enter your vote and have a chance to win a free USAF-596 High Altitude Rectifier from 'Silent One.' _(not really...)_


 

 My heart skipped a beat and said, you go! and then I got to the _not really._ Such a tease, SO.


----------



## rosgr63

dminches said:


> That offer is still open if people can agree on a date.


 
  
  
 Dare I ask if cookies will be served David?
  


2359glenn said:


> The newer 6SN7GTB are quieter then the older 6SN7 many people don't like them. But I don't think
> it will make much difference in that amp.


 
  
 The GTB have a more pronounced low end.
 Some 6SN7's sound wonderful and different form others.
 These are results from my own experiments in my owns systems and a pair of well worn ears!


----------



## dminches

If you show up, cookies will be plentiful.


----------



## jc9394

And NY style pizza and Philly cheesesteak?


----------



## marcober

rosgr63 said:


> Beautiful looking amps!


Who is Glenn and how do I contact him?


----------



## dminches

jc9394 said:


> And NY style pizza and Philly cheesesteak?


 
  
 Pizza, yes?
  
 Philly cheeseteaks?
  
 Maybe...


----------



## Neogeo333

dubstep girl said:


> They sound much better than they did in the wa22. One thing though, i still notice a noise floor with them. I dunno if i have bad tubes or if its normal with 6sn7 tubes. With 6as7g its noticeable but more quiet. With the higher gain tubes, its more noise. Even with volume all the way down and no music playing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




In my OTL, I need at least 45 minutes for the 6336 to warm up. It has some hum/noise in the right side and after 1 hour is barely there. 3 weeks and still using the same 6336 and rolled about 3 drivers, vr102, TS round plate 12sn7 and a Brimar 13D1. Love the neutrality of the TS.


----------



## rosgr63

marcober said:


> Who is Glenn and how do I contact him?


 
  
 Welcome to Head-Fi.
 Click on his name shown in his posts and send him a PM (Private Message)
  


dminches said:


> If you show up, cookies will be plentiful.


 
  
 David will I be allowed to sit on your listening throne too?


----------



## dminches

Absolutely.  You get the sweet spot.


----------



## rosgr63

David please say you won't give me any pizza..........................
  
 George do you prefer the TS over the BL63?


----------



## dminches

Pizza is optional.
  
 Glenn may not let you have any pizza.  He is josing for NY pizza.  There is no good pizza in NC.


----------



## Clayton SF

All right. Who lives in or near Austria so that can audition one of these?


----------



## longbowbbs

Those tubes look like alien pods ready to hatch!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

neogeo333 said:


> In my OTL, I need at least 45 minutes for the 6336 to warm up. It has some hum/noise in the right side and after 1 hour is barely there. 3 weeks and still using the same 6336 and rolled about 3 drivers, vr102, TS round plate 12sn7 and a Brimar 13D1. Love the neutrality of the TS.


 
  
 its not a power tube problem, its a 6sn7 problem.
  
 with all my 6f8g, noise floor higher, slight hum. with 6sn7 always slight noise. its more noticeable with the more powerful power tubes. amp is almost completely silent with the lower gain 6as7g but still there.
  
 i think i just have bad tubes or maybe its just a problem of all 6sn7. 
  
 the grey glass 6sn7 is more silent than the others, but still has some noise.


----------



## Neogeo333

dubstep girl said:


> its not a power tube problem, its a 6sn7 problem.
> 
> with all my 6f8g, noise floor higher, slight hum. with 6sn7 always slight noise. its more noticeable with the more powerful power tubes. amp is almost completely silent with the lower gain 6as7g but still there.
> 
> ...



Still have to try a 6f8g. might give it a shot tonight. In my case were the output tubes. All the driver tubes show the initial hum/noise at startup.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> its not a power tube problem, its a 6sn7 problem.
> 
> with all my 6f8g, noise floor higher, slight hum. with 6sn7 always slight noise. its more noticeable with the more powerful power tubes. amp is almost completely silent with the lower gain 6as7g but still there.
> 
> ...


 

 Get a newer production Sylvania or RCA 6SN7GTB it will have lower noise and better base.
 Don't listen to what people say about the SQ it is BS.
 I have a Westinghouse 6SN7GTB that sounds great in that amp and is totally quiet


----------



## Neogeo333

Listening to National Union 6f8g round plates.  No hum/noise here.  Its actually very good pairing with the OTL.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

for some reason one of my ts 6f8gs all of a sudden stopped being so noisy. but i also switched to 6as7g.... interesting...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

few more hours of listening today. seems like i like this tube combo more on T1 than on HD 800, surprising!
  
 GEC 6AS7G
 GEC/MWT U52/5U4G
 TS 6F8G flats
  
 the GEC U52 is definitely a very nice tube, but not as good as western electric 422A, its on the same level as them though but i think the Cossor GZ37 is just as good....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WOW!
  
 just put the metal mullard gz34 in, its so good!! 
  
 like super crystal clear sounding, this one might jsut take 2nd place vs the WE 422A....


----------



## Silent One

Yes, more night shots! To everyone not just DG...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

silent one said:


> Yes, more night shots! To everyone not just DG...


 
  
 yes!1
  
 i want to see jc9394 use the glenn otl as a profile picture as well


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just put the brimar 5r4gy in, glenn this tube was ok right? 
  
 it sounds pretty good.....alot better than it did on the WA6-SE and WA22, it sounded really slow and thick on them.
  
 anyways, time to go to sleep! 
  
 this amp is alot of fun, hard to tell the difference between some tubes though.
  
 the tung sol 5998 are awesome though, just as good as on WA2, just alot of dynamics, bass, warmth, and balance in them. the GEC 6AS7G are also really good. 
  
 the mullard gz34 was surprisingly good on the amp, made the sound really neutral and well rounded. 
  
 i still have to try the mighty 596...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Glenn, 
  
 I really like this amp, i think i am going to buy one... 
  
 a few things though i had a question about
  
 1. is a regular alps pot available?
  
 2. u said you can make a 6922/7308/6DJ8/E88CC/CCa adapter right? in case the noise bothers me or if i want to tube roll them as well. right now the tung sol 6f8g seems to have settled and the noise isn't really bothering me as much because the amp sounds so good.
  
 3. matching 596 and 6f8g adapters like the rk60


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Get a newer production Sylvania or RCA 6SN7GTB it will have lower noise and better base.
> Don't listen to what people say about the SQ it is BS.
> I have a Westinghouse 6SN7GTB that sounds great in that amp and is totally quiet


 
  
 Come on Glenn, it's not BS.
 In theory maths say all tubes of the same type should sound the same in the same circuit.
  
 In practice it's far from it.
 I have noticed differences in sound with the same make and type but of different production runs.
 I am talking about 310A, 328A used as drivers, 6SN7's used as drivers/power tubes and 6ASG's, 300B's, PX4's and VT-52's as power tubes.
  
 With rectifiers I am not convinced they make much of a change so I am with you on this.
  
 But not long to go now we can argue about in two weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 The winner gets Pablo the looser gets the cat............
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 I just can't wait.
  
 Let's not forget many tubes are/were hand made so there's bound to be differences as sound is affected by the spacing/placement of the elements.
  
 David please no not the pizza.....................you are making my life very hard!!!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> just put the brimar 5r4gy in, glenn this tube was ok right?
> 
> it sounds pretty good.....alot better than it did on the WA6-SE and WA22, it sounded really slow and thick on them.
> 
> ...


 





 Great to read your impressions... _and a good nite to you._ Me? I'll be up all night again playing with my new gears, too.


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> Great to read your impressions... _and a good nite to you._ Me? I'll be *up all night *again playing with my new gears, too.




I had intended to get some time with the T1 and my Glenn OTL, but Khaos and Karma decided on Doctor Who. Perhaps tomorrow...

I think I have the 13D1, big Russian 5U4C and 5998s in. Can't wait!


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I had intended to get some time with the T1 and my Glenn OTL, but Khaos and Karma decided on Doctor Who. Perhaps tomorrow...
> 
> I think I have the 13D1, big Russian 5U4C and 5998s in. Can't wait!


 
  
 Yup, got the same tube complement at my ready. Hmmm, you just inspired me to take it out of storage for a couple of weeks. I'm in full 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 play-mode, so maybe next week, we'll hook up a pair of preamps to the OTL (Sansui; Shindo). 
  
 Current numbers inside the temporary listening room from _"Glass & Cans"_:
  
 9 NOVEMBRE 2013
  
 HE-6   @ 173 hrs
 HD650 @ 136 hrs
 D7000 @ 1,809 hrs
 D5000 @ 1,926 hrs
  
  
 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk_  @ 709 hrs
 Shindo Labs Sinhonia F2a @ 29 hours
 Shindo Labs Aurieges @ 21 hours
  
  
 It took awhile but the HE-6 recently stormed past the HD650. Though, the heels of both Denons remain largely out-of-view. This could take a bit more time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Among tube amps, the OTL _Silver Hawk _sits alone atop the leader board... for now. I'm almost certain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




the proposed 2359glenn 300B monos in 2014 will reign in that large lead like the Peleton in The Tour de France!


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> yes!1
> 
> i want to see jc9394 use the glenn otl as a profile picture as well




Not for a while, dead tired after 20+ hours in the air. So glad I'm on solid ground now.


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > yes!1
> ...


 
 Any new toys come from your travel?


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Come on Glenn, it's not BS.
> In theory maths say all tubes of the same type should sound the same in the same circuit.
> 
> In practice it's far from it.
> ...


 

 OK Stavros
 I want to here all this difference in one of my amps
 We can try a lowly Sylvania 6SN7 vrs one of your B65 or B36
 I know there will be a little difference but one will not sound like crap and one sound good.
 When I send the package on Monday should I put in some cheep 6SN7s that I use that I paid $1.00 for
 We might as well start arguing now why Waite two weeks !!!!!!!!!!!
 I can't say what a 310A or 328A in some one else amp sounds like.
 I don't know what operating points they are running them at.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> rosgr63 said:
> 
> 
> > Come on Glenn, it's not BS.
> ...


----------



## rosgr63

Apart from the CCCP 6H8C, and the re-issues, which sound bad to me other NOS 6SN7 sound different, not necessarily bad.
 One of my favourites is a TS Mouse Ears with a cracked base.
 I never use expensive 6SN7s on any my amps.
  
 We never argue Glenn, we're just voicing different opinions.
 It would be vey boring if we always agreed on everything!!!!!!!
  
 Tube discussions are healthy............


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> Glenn,
> 
> I really like this amp, i think i am going to buy one...
> 
> ...


 

 You might try to keep that amp for awhile
 I am out of transformers and am getting them wound plus have a bunch of amps to build.
 And I am going to Athens for a week to argue with Stavros about amps and tubes.
  
 (1)Yes I can put in a alps pot I prefer them myself.
  
 (2) I should be able to make this adapter just have to look at the operating points of these tubes
  
 (3) I could make adapters that are oriented properly for these tubes.


----------



## rosgr63

Eric I am afraid there won't be any fighting over tubes only over sweets and food!!!!!!!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Eric I am afraid there won't be any fighting over tubes only over sweets and food!!!!!!!!!


 
 Cookie rolling??


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Apart from the CCCP 6H8C, and the re-issues, which sound bad to me other NOS 6SN7 sound different, not necessarily bad.
> One of my favourites is a TS Mouse Ears with a cracked base.
> I never use expensive 6SN7s on any my amps.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes they are good tube discussions are good.
 We will have discussions  and test this out when L and G are out shopping other wise we will be boring to everyone.
 I had a good Mouse Ears 12SN7 that I broke that pissed me off.


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> Eric I am afraid there won't be any fighting over tubes only over sweets and food!!!!!!!!!


 
  
 And pets?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just installed the new spikes under Glenn's 300b amp. It looks great! (now just hope it works as well)


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Eric I am afraid there won't be any fighting over tubes only over sweets and food!!!!!!!!!


 

 I am sure there will be treats in the box that L and me are sending.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Yes they are good tube discussions are good.
> We will have discussions  and test this out when L and G are out shopping other wise we will be boring to everyone.
> I had a good Mouse Ears 12SN7 that I broke that pissed me off.


 
  
  
 I'll make sure we have a good cookies supply L&G can shop as long as they like.


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> And pets?


 
  
  
 No as long as I get to keep Kira, won't be much fighting over pets.
  
 The cat is bad bitting and scratching not much love loss there.
 She loves rolling tubes lying on the bed..................


----------



## 2359glenn

Also to me one of the most inportant thing is that the tube is not noisy. To me It doesn't matter how good it sounds
 if it is noisy I can't use it it would drive me crazy and I am already nuts .
 You wouldent believe how many #26 direct heated triodes I bought beforr I had a fer pairs for my preamp.
 Only GE and Westinghouse with the newer style getter are quiet and Canadian Marconi are quiet enough for me.
 I am using the Canadian Marconi #26s for years now.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes they are good tube discussions are good.
> ...


 
 Glenn's bakery....Get a free tube amp with every 12 dozen cookies ordered!


----------



## 2359glenn

I thought you said Kira is the devil dog that bites everybody?
 I like Kira she will be glad when we come back she will have the sucker me that gives her food all the time again.


----------



## rosgr63

Yes she is the *SHE Devil*!!!!!!!!
  
 That's why I love her.
 She has a very limited circle of friends including you and L.
 She hates all else.
  
 And she's very very clever.


----------



## 2359glenn

longbowbbs said:


> Glenn's bakery....Get a free tube amp with every 12 dozen cookies ordered!


 

 Stavros gets mad at me when I give him free amps so I will be good for this trip.
 Maybe not the next one.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn's bakery....Get a free tube amp with every 12 dozen cookies ordered!
> ...


 
 You do have to protect him from himself. That is what friends are for!


----------



## Clayton SF

Seated in Business Class, I hope.


----------



## 2359glenn

longbowbbs said:


> You do have to protect him from himself. That is what friends are for!


 

 I don't think he has room for any more amps anyway
 I think California has so many earth quakes from the weight of Clayton's amps.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> I think California has so many earth quakes from the weight of Clayton's amps.


 
  
 Hahahahaha!


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > You do have to protect him from himself. That is what friends are for!
> ...


 
 Now we know the cause of those quakes!


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> I don't think he has room for any more amps anyway
> I think California has so many earth quakes from the weight of Clayton's amps.


 
   
The only way to stop earthquakes is to add another amp to the stack. More weight and added pressure placed on top of the San Andreas Fault might postpone the impending earth tremor for at least a few more years. I hear those Lindahl transformers are heavily built.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Pimp Job Part 1: Spikes
  

  

  
 Should you wonder why they are so close together, there are two reasons. 1. They are where Glenn put them. And 2, if I out them further away in the corners they wouldn't fit on my table in the living room, and as I keep moving amps around the house I have little choice. It looks better in real though.
  
 Buzz has reduced but you of course can't eliminate it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> You might try to keep that amp for awhile
> I am out of transformers and am getting them wound plus have a bunch of amps to build.
> And I am going to Athens for a week to argue with Stavros about amps and tubes.
> 
> ...




Ok!


----------



## 2359glenn

They look good ware did you get them ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> They look good ware did you get them ?


 
  
 Ebay!
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/221303779198
  
 They are from "Dynavox", maybe you can get them cheaper in the US.
 Heavy spikes and cheap too. the only disadvantage is you have to keep time in the lowest position or the feet will wiggle. But i knew that upfront.


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> Pimp Job Part 1: Spikes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 man that amp looks so nice! Do you have the lundahl transformers in that or is it an older one?


----------



## Ultrainferno

magiccabbage said:


> man that amp looks so nice! Do you have the lundahl transformers in that or is it an older one?


 
 No it hasn't. At that time nobody figured it out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And it would have seriously upped the price.
 Older is a bad word, it's not even 6 months yet...
  
 thanks though.
  
 My pimp 2 fase is on hold till the chinese stuff turns up, been waiting for a month already


----------



## dminches

The Lundahl transformers add $1000 to the price.


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> No it hasn't. At that time nobody figured it out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 sorry i didn't know it was 6 months old. I can only imagine what it must sound like. Did you have a WA2 in the past?


----------



## Ultrainferno

magiccabbage said:


> sorry i didn't know it was 6 months old. I can only imagine what it must sound like. Did you have a WA2 in the past?


 
  
 Yes, I had Clayton's WA2 for a year before selling it for him to a very lucky owner. I still have two other OTLs though, going for 3 if Glenn finds the time to make one.


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> Yes, I had Clayton's WA2 for a year before selling it for him to a very lucky owner. I still have two other OTLs though, going for 3 if Glenn finds the time to make one.


 
 So here is a easy to answer question - how does the 300b sound like compared to the wa2? your 300b is just for planars right? maybe its not so easy to compare then


----------



## Ultrainferno

Well the 300b imho can't really be compared to a 6AS7G based amp.
  
 300B: Full layered sound, great sound stage, weighty bass, details, air and clarity are all better and it's more dynamic. Smooth tube sound
 WA2: Less tube sounding, smaller sound stage, detailed strong mids, weaker bass. Great voices. Good amp don't get me wrong, just not at the level of the 300B overall. I especially enjoyed the WA2 with Beyers.
  
 Me not being a fan of 5998 tubes, the WA2 didn't really have the juice to power orthos to their best imo and the 300b doesn't do the headphones made for the OTL. So comparing them directly isn't that easy but he 300B is incredible for the orthos. My top 4 ortho amps are the leben 300, Bakoon HPa-21, ALO Studio Six and Glenn's 300B. So that's very good company and Glenn's amp is only a fraction of their price...
  
 I'm sure the guys can chime in here, Clayton should be able to give his idea too.


----------



## magiccabbage

you have the leben 300...


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> The Lundahl transformers add $1000 to the price.


 

 I think I will only make 300B amps with Lundahl transformers from now on.
 I want these amps to be better than anything else out there.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> I think I will only make 300B amps with Lundahl transformers from now on.
> I want these amps to be better than anything else out there.


 
 I would be interested in that but only if it could power high and low impedance headphones.


----------



## jc9394

```

```



longbowbbs said:


> Any new toys come from your travel?




May look for EAT and Taketsuki 300B if I have time.


----------



## dminches

My KR-300B Balloons are on their way to me.


----------



## Skylab

dminches said:


> My KR-300B Balloons are on their way to me.




Wow, will be looking forward to pics of those!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> My KR-300B Balloons are on their way to me.


 

 I hope the chassis for the amp gets here before I leave for Athens


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> I hope the chassis for the amp gets here before I leave for Athens




It will. It was being anodized this week.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Seated in Business Class, I hope.




Me? Yes, company policy. Anything flights over 6 hours except within lower 48 states.


----------



## Clayton SF

Were you in them pods that turn into beds. I hear they're soon to be equipped with OTL Glenn Amps.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> Were you in them pods that turn into beds. I hear they're soon to be equipped with OTL Glenn Amps.


 
 I need to fly more often!


----------



## Wapiti

dminches said:


> My KR-300B Balloons are on their way to me.


 

 I have been tempted.  I look forward to your impressions.


----------



## Silent One

Re: Lundahl trannies
  






 To higher standards!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got my 2nd WE 422A to keep as a spare!!
  
 it looks different. 
  
 this one has little o getters and the other one i have doesn't. this one also has the same domino plates as ts 5998, the other one has the same domino plates, but they are lighter grey.
  
 also the construction seems similar but slightly different. 
  
 i wonder if they sound any different...this one is from the late 70s i think. the other one is from early 50s....


----------



## GrindingThud

That new one with the little rounds looks just like the getters on my 421A. The grey looks very interesting.


----------



## Xcalibur255

dubstep girl said:


> 1. is a regular alps pot available?


 
 For whatever it's worth (not much these days), I recommend sticking with the stepped pot as it has a SQ advantage over an Alps.  I have had both in my OTL, an RK27 Alps and a Valab23 stepped unit and I felt I took a bit of a hit in transparency when I went to the Alps.  The Valabs don't seem to be the most reliable stepped units (failure was the reason for the change to Alps in my amp), but you can find stepped pots for a reasonable price in other brands too.


----------



## Silent One

I'm well on my way to having a wonderful holiday weekend. A few hours ago, I visited the home of Kevin from Upscale Audio. He provided me with a really good tour, chat and refreshment. I came away impressed with what he has done, currently doing and trying to accomplish in audio.
  
 Tubes and the amps that love them were simply _everywhere._ I wonder what would Orson Welles would have thought upon entering the home.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He had a wide variety of glass (NOS & current), some were even in separate rooms being treated... _rack 'em!_ He also sends tubes out to get _Cryo'd._ I really appreciate Kevin going the _extra mile_ for the customer.
  
 Driving out to meet him was his idea. I merely called asking for store hours so I could stop by and purchase a RCM (Okki Nokki). He replied he's closing in a few minutes for the weekend. But if I brought cash, he'd take it home and meet me there.
  





 
  
 We were on the freeway in under 3 minutes!


----------



## longbowbbs

That is why he is so highly regarded for so long. Hat's off to Kevin and his great customer service!


----------



## Silent One

I been spending the last few hours gettin' squeeky!


----------



## rosgr63

skylab said:


> Wow, will be looking forward to pics of those!!!!


 
  
 Here is my pair Rob:


----------



## Ultrainferno

dminches said:


> It will. It was being anodized this week.


 
  
 What exactly are you getting David?


----------



## dminches

Lieven, I ordered a chassis from Landfall System for the 300B amp.  Xcalibur255 recommended them.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looking forward to seeing pictures of it. Did you choose the 5U4G + C3G  + 300b + Lundahls or is there something special there as well?


----------



## dminches

Glenn decided on 2 C3Gs, 2 300Bs and 2 PV-500/42EC4s.


----------



## longbowbbs

dminches said:


> Glenn decided on 2 C3Gs, 2 300Bs and 2 PV-500/42EC4s.


 
 That is going to be a sweet amp! Can't wait to see it.


----------



## dminches

Me too!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Here is my pair Rob:


 

 Stavros The side with the logo is that the small pins or large pins????
 I would like to orient the sockets in David's amp so the logo faces forward.


----------



## dminches

Glenn, I will let you know when I get them Monday, but it looks like the 2 large pins are in front when the label is facing out.


----------



## longbowbbs

dminches said:


> Glenn, I will let you know when I get them Monday, but it looks like the 2 large pins are in front when the label is facing out.


 
 That is some sweet looking glass. I'll bet they glow beautifully!


----------



## Skylab

rosgr63 said:


> Here is my pair Rob:




Wow those are VERY cool looking!!! Thanks Stavros.




dminches said:


> Lieven, I ordered a chassis from Landfall System for the 300B amp.  Xcalibur255 recommended them.




Sounds like you're going all out on this one, David. Nice!


----------



## rosgr63

David, the tubes in your photos are not balloons.
  
 Glenn, most of my UX4 based tubes have the logo on the heater pin side.
 However please wait until David gets his, you never know.


----------



## dminches

You are right Stavros.  I just quickly grabbed an image.


----------



## rosgr63

Just wanted to draw our attention in case.
  
 You should also get a certificate with them like this one:


----------



## johnnybrick

2359glenn said:


> I think I will only make 300B amps with Lundahl transformers from now on.
> I want these amps to be better than anything else out there.




Wow! It's these two sentences that may tip my decision in the direction of the 300b. Glenn's passion and commitment towards creating an unparalleled product at a very competitive price-point is refreshing & the reason why I'll probably forego the Stratus, WA5, & Studio 6 for now. Besides, I'll like supporting the "Little Guy" like the Glenn's and Donald North's of the world! Am I sharing too much?!?


----------



## Clayton SF

johnnybrick said:


> Wow! It's these two sentences that may tip my decision in the direction of the 300b. Glenn's passion and commitment towards creating an unparalleled product at a very competitive price-point is refreshing & the reason why I'll probably forego the Stratus, WA5, & Studio 6 for now. Besides, I'll like supporting the "Little Guy" like the Glenn's and Donald North's of the world! Am I sharing too much?!?


 
  
 Donald North makes the Stratus so it is not possible to support Donald and forgo the Stratus, too.


----------



## 2359glenn

I will see when you send a picture of yours.
 It don't matter right now I am not going to do anything until I get back from visiting Stavros.


----------



## johnnybrick

You're right clayton....I could have stated it more clearly.  I love both of these amps and since I can't test them side by side it's been a real head scratcher trying to decide which one to go with. Like most of the folks at head fi have stated before, buy one and if you don't like it sell it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

S T R A T U S!


----------



## johnnybrick

dubstep girl said:


> S T R A T U S!




Santa Claus might be coming to my town DSG!


----------



## johnnybrick

dubstep girl said:


> S T R A T U S!




At the expense of sounding wishy-washy on this amp thingy, with so many variables in the music chain these days does anyone agree that with the right tube rolling combo on the 300b you can pretty much dial-in or achieve a sound that's 99% comparable to the likes of the stratus at $1200ish more? Just curious.


----------



## Clayton SF

johnnybrick said:


> At the expense of sounding wishy-washy on this amp thingy, with so many variables in the music chain these days does anyone agree that with the right tube rolling combo on the 300b you can pretty much dial-in or achieve a sound that's 99% comparable to the likes of the stratus at $1200ish more? Just curious.


 
  
 Does anyone know the make of Stratus transformer(s)?


----------



## Wapiti

In my experience, the 2A3 is more delicate, detailed and easier to hear into the music.  The 300B is richer, has a more power, and especially more bass. 
  
 Of course, it depends on implementation, driver tube, transformer, etc.


----------



## 2359glenn

johnnybrick said:


> At the expense of sounding wishy-washy on this amp thingy, with so many variables in the music chain these days does anyone agree that with the right tube rolling combo on the 300b you can pretty much dial-in or achieve a sound that's 99% comparable to the likes of the stratus at $1200ish more? Just curious.


 

 More like $2Kish the Lundahl transformers alone cost $1K by them selves.
 There is not much tube rolling with this amp you can roll the 300Bs maybe the rectifier
 but the C3g driver all of them were made by Siemens so even if you put in another brand it is still the same.
*Why not make a amp that sounds as good as it can to start off with !! Better Yet with the least expensive tubes.*


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> More like $2Kish the Lundahl transformers alone cost $1K by them selves.
> There is not much tube rolling with this amp you can roll the 300Bs maybe the rectifier
> but the C3g driver all of them were made by Siemens so even if you put in another brand it is still the same.
> *Why not make a amp that sounds as good as it can to start off with !! Better Yet with the least expensive tubes.*


 
 what are your favorite headphones with this amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

I build these for other people
  
 I use HD650 and HD800s with the OTL.


----------



## johnnybrick

clayton sf said:


> Does anyone know the make of Stratus transformer(s)?




According to Donald's website, they're made by some company called "custom".


----------



## johnnybrick

wapiti said:


> In my experience, the 2A3 is more delicate, detailed and easier to hear into the music.  The 300B is richer, has a more power, and especially more bass.
> 
> Of course, it depends on implementation, driver tube, transformer, etc.




Good info Wapiti....thx!


----------



## johnnybrick

2359glenn said:


> More like $2Kish the Lundahl transformers alone cost $1K by them selves.
> There is not much tube rolling with this amp you can roll the 300Bs maybe the rectifier
> but the C3g driver all of them were made by Siemens so even if you put in another brand it is still the same.
> *Why not make a amp that sounds as good as it can to start off with !! Better Yet with the least expensive tubes.*




Couldn't agree with you more Glenn! Love your philosophy on design and implementation. $2k still sounds reasonable to me given the quality of your hand-built amps. Wish I had your skills and patience.


----------



## johnnybrick

wapiti said:


> In my experience, the 2A3 is more delicate, detailed and easier to hear into the music.  The 300B is richer, has a more power, and especially more bass.
> 
> Of course, it depends on implementation, driver tube, transformer, etc.




Wapiti, which headphone(s) did you use during your listening sessions?


----------



## Wapiti

This is an observation over time with various amps and applications, including listening to flea-powered amps and efficient speakers. 
  
 To me, the two tubes have a different type of sound.  Both are very appealing.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

dubstep girl said:


> S T R A T U S!


 
 DG, you didn't get the Stratus listed on the sale forum a few weeks back?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sko0bydoo said:


> DG, you didn't get the Stratus listed on the sale forum a few weeks back?


 
  
 no i turned it down because it shipped from brazil and after i send it to justin, wait for him to install the 120v transformer, and the upgrades, and pay for all the shipping. it would save a few months, but cost almost as much as a new amp. so i'll just wait for a used regular one to pop up for sale.


----------



## rosgr63

wapiti said:


> This is an observation over time with various amps and applications, including listening to flea-powered amps and efficient speakers.
> 
> To me, the two tubes have a different type of sound.  Both are very appealing.


 
  
  
 Have you ever listened to VT-52's?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

listening to TS6F8G, GEC 6AS7G and U52 tubes in the Glenn amp today, the GEC tubes just like in the WA2, seem to have a special synergy with the HD 800. sounds similar to the Zana Deux or Wa2 with the GEc tubes, but different.


----------



## Blackmore

I would love to see some pics of the amp and, of course, tubes.

THX



dubstep girl said:


> listening to TS6F8G, GEC 6AS7G and U52 tubes in the Glenn amp today, the GEC tubes just like in the WA2, seem to have a special synergy with the HD 800. sounds similar to the Zana Deux or Wa2 with the GEc tubes, but different.


----------



## Blackmore

These are the best KR ever made, after these of course))







rosgr63 said:


> Here is my pair Rob:


----------



## Dubstep Girl




----------



## Dubstep Girl

btw i think i found more rk60 for sale. i bought like 5, gonna see if they ship or if they out of stock and haven't updated like some other websites. 2 left 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
http://www.tubesandmore.com/products/T-1641_RK60


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice tubes Blackmore, some of the very best for sure!


----------



## Blackmore

Just teasing you my friend)) I am very interesting in those Globe KR's.



rosgr63 said:


> Very nice tubes Blackmore, some of the very best for sure!


----------



## Neogeo333

dubstep girl said:


>





Hi DG, those British tubes sure look beautiful. How does the TS square mica sounds compared to the oval or round mica?


----------



## Blackmore

Yes, thanks for posting, but the full pic of amp would make the picture complete




neogeo333 said:


> Hi DG, those British tubes sure look beautiful. How does the TS square mica sounds compared to the oval or round mica?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

blackmore said:


> Yes, thanks for posting, but the full pic of amp would make the picture complete


 
  
 more pics, switching out to try the mullard gz34 today. this amp is pretty big btw, its about the same size as the WA2/WA22 though smaller than a zana.
  

  

  
  
  
  Quote:


neogeo333 said:


> Hi DG, those British tubes sure look beautiful. How does the TS square mica sounds compared to the oval or round mica?


 
  
 thanks. no clue unfortunately. frank I might be able to answer that, he has both i believe. there should be a slight different but nothing major with the round being slightly better.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

more listening today, the GEC tubes definitely sound much better with HD 800, like with T1, i do not like them with my beyerdynamic t1, the tung sol 5998 or western electric 421a are much better sounding with the T1, the extra power and bass helps them.


----------



## Clayton SF

dubstep girl said:


> more pics, switching out to try the mullard gz34 today. this amp is pretty big btw, its about the same size as the WA2/WA22 though smaller than a zana.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Big Chassis.
> ...


 
  
 I wonder my small-chassis OTL has exactly the same innards as yours. Of course yours will have more inside real estate--more breathing room.


----------



## Wapiti

rosgr63 said:


> Have you ever listened to VT-52's?


 

 Unfortunately, no.  I have not made contact with the VT52 cult.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> more listening today, the GEC tubes definitely sound much better with HD 800, like with T1, i do not like them with my beyerdynamic t1, the tung sol 5998 or western electric 421a are much better sounding with the T1, the extra power and bass helps them.


 

 You want more power and bass get a pair of 6336 tubes I think JC bought a pair from David maybe he will lend them to you
 when he gets back?


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> I wonder my small-chassis OTL has exactly the same innards as yours. Of course yours will have more inside real estate--more breathing room.


 

 Clayton your OTL is the same circuit just has the older power transformer different brand then the ones i use now are bigger
 and won't fit on the chassis If I use them I can't use two chokes. The company I was using got crazy with there price.
 Other wise they are the same amp.


----------



## Silent One

That's great to hear! May be rolling out my little OTL any day now...


----------



## Clayton SF

_*Doctor Glenn's Listening Machine. It cures what ails you.*_
  
 Listening now to my Glenn OTL with Denon D7000. Fantastic! Just like the doctor ordered. Listen to it every hour on the hour and you won't have to call your doctor in the morning! 
  
 Glenn, I'm cured. For the time being, at least until I order my next Glenn Amp prescription.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> more listening today, the GEC tubes definitely sound much better with HD 800, like with T1, i do not like them with my beyerdynamic t1, the tung sol 5998 or western electric 421a are much better sounding with the T1, the extra power and bass helps them.


 
  
  
 Nice to know since I only have the HD800.
  


2359glenn said:


> You want more power and bass get a pair of 6336 tubes I think JC bought a pair from David maybe he will lend them to you
> when he gets back?


 
  
 It was my intention but my trip to Japan pop out of nowhere and I don't have time to ship it.


----------



## jc9394




----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> _*Doctor Glenn's Listening Machine. It cures what ails you.*_
> 
> Listening now to my *Glenn OTL with Denon D7000.* Fantastic! Just like the doctor ordered. Listen to it every hour on the hour and you won't have to call your doctor in the morning!
> 
> Glenn, I'm cured. For the time being, at least until I order my next Glenn Amp prescription.


 
  
 Hey, the 2359glenn OTL & D7000 was my original prescription, 24 Fev '12.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


>


 
  
 Very nice, jc9394. Did you know my future listening room is inside that building?


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> Hey, the 2359glenn OTL & D7000 was my original prescription, 24 Fev '12.


 

 Yes. That's why I bought the D7000.
 Thank you, SO!
 I'm cured. For now.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Yes. That's why I bought the D7000.
> Thank you, SO!
> I'm cured. For now.


 
  
 With all the 'OTL' chat the last 30 days, it's time for me to rekindle a bit. And put it into the rotation for 10 days - 2 weeks.


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> _*Doctor Glenn's Listening Machine. It cures what ails you.*_
> 
> Listening now to my Glenn OTL with Denon D7000. Fantastic! Just like the doctor ordered. Listen to it every hour on the hour and you won't have to call your doctor in the morning!
> 
> Glenn, I'm cured. For the time being, at least until I order my next Glenn Amp prescription.


 
 What tube combo do you use with your d7000/otl?


----------



## Wapiti

Stunning pictures, gorgeous scenery.
  
 Thanks for posting them.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Very nice, jc9394. Did you know my future listening room is inside that building?


 
  
 If can get within 50 feet to it and you are not end up in jail or deported, take pics.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


wapiti said:


> Stunning pictures, gorgeous scenery.
> 
> Thanks for posting them.


 
  
 thanks, first time in this part of Japan and the historic places are amazing.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> If can get within 50 feet to it and you are not end up in jail or deported, take pics.


 
 Fantastic Four-
  
 The four fantastic things I'd like to do in that building:
  
 1. Meditate
 2. Tea ceremony
 3. Write letters using my Pilot Metal Falcon Fountain Pen filled with _Iroshizuku Murasaki Shikibu ink._
 4. Listen to music


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> What tube combo do you use with your d7000/otl?


 

 Rectifier: Sylvania 3DG4
 Driver: Zalytron 6SN7
 Power: Tung-Sol 6AS7G and/or GE 6AS7GA
  
 Beauty to the 2nd power.


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> Rectifier: Sylvania 3DG4
> Driver: Zalytron 6SN7
> Power: Tung-Sol 6AS7G and/or GE 6AS7GA
> 
> Beauty to the 2nd power.


 
 have you tried mullard 6a7sg? I was wondering what there like?


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> have you tried mullard 6a7sg? I was wondering what there like?


 
  
 No. Out of budget range. I'd rather spend that kind of money on another Glenn Amp.


----------



## rosgr63

wapiti said:


> Unfortunately, no.  I have not made contact with the VT52 cult.


 
  
  
 It is a cult, the only tube that was designed/made to operate from 5.7V to 7.7V.
 Unfortunately I am a victim to this cult.
 One of the very few tubes for which a data sheet does not exist.
 Only a Japanese site has published some data but I don't  read Japanese to search for it.
 Have you tried any 2A3 monoplates or 6A3 box plates or flat plates?
  
  


clayton sf said:


> Rectifier: Sylvania 3DG4
> Driver: Zalytron 6SN7
> Power: Tung-Sol 6AS7G and/or GE 6AS7GA
> 
> Beauty to the 2nd power.


 
  
  
 Very nice Clayton.
 Your driver is a 6SN7GTA side getter tube, not an exiting tube.
 Try a NOS Sylvania 6SN7 if you can.


----------



## rosgr63

magiccabbage said:


> have you tried mullard 6a7sg? I was wondering what there like?


 
  
  
 Is there a Mullard 6AS7G?
 I'd love to see a picture!


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> Very nice Clayton.
> Your driver is a 6SN7GTA side getter tube, not an exiting tube.
> Try a NOS Sylvania 6SN7 if you can.


 

 Is that tube's sound too tight? I've haven't been able to compare it with your Sylvania recommendation.
  
 I've got some Sylvania 7N7 tubes with Glenn's adapters. I should try that combo--never have.


----------



## rosgr63

Or a TS 6SN7GT mouse ears or similar construction without the ears.
 They are cheap and sound better IMHO.
 Don't take my word for it, please try it.


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> Or a TS 6SN7GT mouse ears or similar construction without the ears.
> They are cheap and sound better IMHO.
> Don't take my word for it, please try it.


 
  
 Better yet. I'll come over next year and listen with you and Glenn


----------



## rosgr63

That would be fantastic!
There'll be no time for auditioning we'll have so much to do and food to try instead!
I don't want to start any tube wars...........
  
  
 Take a deep breath and save your money.
  
 Mullard as far as I know never made any 6AS7G.
 There are 6080 types labelled as Marconi, *Mullard,*GEC, Brimar which sell for about $10-$20.
 Probably made in the US.
  
*EDIT Mullard also*


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> _*Doctor Glenn's Listening Machine. It cures what ails you.*_
> 
> Listening now to my Glenn OTL with Denon D7000. Fantastic! Just like the doctor ordered. Listen to it every hour on the hour and you won't have to call your doctor in the morning!
> 
> Glenn, I'm cured. For the time being, at least until I order my next Glenn Amp prescription.


 

 Clayton
  
 What do you want in your next amp??
 I will start gathering parts.


----------



## magiccabbage

here on vacuumtubes.net .... 3rd from the bottom - 35 dollars each which i don't think is too bad unless its a typo. I have never heard them myself¬
  
http://www.vacuumtubes.net/RES%20Audio%20pages/5998.html


----------



## magiccabbage

other than the tung sol 5998 and ts/sylv 7236 and gec 6a7sg what other types of power tubes do you guys like in the Glenn OTL. I wanna buy a few different varieties for the amp. Ill be using hd800/t1. Maybe RCA,Chatam and Bendix?


----------



## Oskari

magiccabbage said:


> here on vacuumtubes.net .... 3rd from the bottom - 35 dollars each which i don't think is too bad unless its a typo. I have never heard them myself¬
> 
> http://www.vacuumtubes.net/RES%20Audio%20pages/5998.html


 
  
 Wouldn't surprise me if those were relabeled Svetlanas or Mullard 6080s.


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> Mullard as far as I know never made any 6AS7G.


 
  
 That's my understanding as well.
  


> There are 6080 types labelled as Marconi, *Mullard,*GEC, Brimar which sell for about $10-$20.
> Probably made in the US.


 
  
 Mullard-made 6080s can still be bought quite reasonably. GECs (MOV-made) tend to cost a bit more.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for he confirmation Oskari.
  
 As far as I know MOV made 6AS7G and 6SN7's amongst others but Mullard didn't make either.
 I am talking about Mullard not Philips, Miniwatt, etc.


----------



## Skylab

Are the Mullard branded 6080 actually Mullard UK made? I had a pair once that I thought looked an awful lot like US GE...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I belive those are mullard 6080s but should. Be same or similar tube to the gec 6080...


Oh btw glenn, i dont need more power, was just saying i believe that since the 5998 are more powerful tubes than the gec, it might improve the sound wth t1. At least it did with wa2. Im happy with 5998 and t1 with your amp,

I tried 6336A and i did not really like them, they didnt seem any more powerful and sound quality wasnt noticeably better than the other tubes. Ill try. Them again later though


----------



## rosgr63

skylab said:


> Are the Mullard branded 6080 actually Mullard UK made? I had a pair once that I thought looked an awful lot like US GE...


 
  
  
 That's right Rob, my thoughts too.


----------



## Oskari

dubstep girl said:


> I belive those are mullard 6080s but should. Be same or similar tube to the gec 6080...


 
  
 I think that 6080s generally are quite similar lookswise but there is a difference between those two.


----------



## Oskari

skylab said:


> Are the Mullard branded 6080 actually Mullard UK made? I had a pair once that I thought looked an awful lot like US GE...


 
  
 Brand alone doesn't mean much but if the tube has all the relevant codes, Philips-style as well as UK military, that should be worth something.
  
 I think that the 6080 was in high demand by the British Services and that manufacturing in the UK made sense.


----------



## Skylab

I don't have them anymore, but I had GEC 6080's that were clearly UK made, looked like the GEC A1834/6AS7G internally.  The Mullard branded ones I had looked internally identical to US GE, and nothing like the GEC.
  
 That said, that doesn't mean anything more than this is what that particular set of Mullard 6080's looked like.  I have seen plenty of Mullard branded tubes that were US made, and of course some that were even Russian made.


----------



## rosgr63

The military version are the CV2498 and worth around €10-15.
  
 If people start raving about them the price will go *much* higher but they are not worth it IMHO.
  
*Edit much*


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> As far as I know MOV made 6AS7G and 6SN7's amongst others but Mullard didn't make either.
> I am talking about Mullard not Philips, Miniwatt, etc.


 
  
 Yep. Actually, I don't think I've seen a single 6AS7G made by any of the Philips group companies.


----------



## rosgr63

Irony is a have a selection of 6SN7's and at least one B65 branded Mullard but none was made my them.


----------



## rosgr63

These are my secret weapons against Glenn's US tubes.....................


----------



## dminches

I got my KR Audio 300B Balloons last night.  I will post pictures tonight.  What I did notice was that the heater pins are on the left side when the label is facing forward.


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> Irony is a have a selection of 6SN7's and at least one B65 branded Mullard but none was made my them.


 
  
 A selection? You have the best selection known to mankind!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rosgr63 said:


> The military version are the CV2498 and worth around €10-15.
> 
> If people start raving about them the price will go *much* higher but they are not worth it IMHO.
> 
> *Edit much*





Any place i can buy them?


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> The military version are the CV2498 and worth around €10-15.


 
  
 Did you say CV2984? Probably no difference to the civilian version at all.
  
 ... the military version being the raison d'être.


----------



## magiccabbage

skylab said:


> I don't have them anymore, but I had GEC 6080's that were clearly UK made, looked like the GEC A1834/6AS7G internally.  The Mullard branded ones I had looked internally identical to US GE, and nothing like the GEC.
> 
> That said, that doesn't mean anything more than this is what that particular set of Mullard 6080's looked like.  I have seen plenty of Mullard branded tubes that were US made, and of course some that were even Russian made.


 
 Do the mullard 6080's sound good? 
  
  
 Also anyone tried RCA black pates compare to grey plates? Or the Sovtek 6A7SG is another one i was interested in.


----------



## rosgr63

Oskari, I am counting on you and Ultra to be on my side when the tube wars start!
  
 Here's one of my Mullard B65:


----------



## Ultrainferno

Europe unite! kind of funny starting a war a day after the 1st world war remembrance day. But we do owe those Americans a lot. Plus, Glenn still needs to build me a new amp.
 I'm torn


----------



## rosgr63

dminches said:


> I got my KR Audio 300B Balloons last night.  I will post pictures tonight.  What I did notice was that the heater pins are on the left side when the label is facing forward.


 
  
 If you see my photo my KR 300B Balloons are probably like yours.
 You can see the guide pin which on the opposite side to the heater pins.
  
 I need to find the box at some stage to check, but my photo shows it clearly.
  
 My US UX4 tubes have the logo on the heater pins side.
  
 However both my 300B headphone amps have the heater pins facing backwards.


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> Europe unite! kind of funny starting a war a day after the 1st world war remembrance day. But we do owe those Americans a lot. Plus, Glenn still needs to build me a new amp.
> I'm torn


 
  
  
 Trator.............


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> Trator.............


 
  
 I can be persuaded with a pair of those balloons though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I kid I kid.


----------



## rosgr63

You play hard, but I like it!!!!!!!!!
  
 Armistice was yesterday, same day my home island was liberated in 1912 before WWI started.


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> Oskari, I am counting on you and Ultra to be on my side when the tube wars start!


 
  
 Tubes at the ready! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


> Here's one of my Mullard B65:


 
  
 Lovely, but the Mullard's in the ink, in the ink alone.


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Europe unite! kind of funny starting a war a day after the 1st world war remembrance day. But we do owe those Americans a lot. Plus, Glenn still needs to build me a new amp.
> I'm torn


 
  





 Ultra... exercising the skills of a diplomat!


----------



## Oskari

magiccabbage said:


> Do the mullard 6080's sound good?


 
  
 That is a good question. The one I ever heard was clearly defective, so no help there.


----------



## magiccabbage

oskari said:


> That is a good question. The one I ever heard was clearly defective, so no help there.


 
 A pity those sovteks also look nice i wonder how they sound. Might take the plunge, I wonder if this is actually how they look


----------



## Ultrainferno

Are these the ones you talk about?
  

  
 They're not too expensive, but they're the new logo style. So I suppose these are not the ones


----------



## Oskari

magiccabbage said:


> A pity those sovteks also look nice i wonder how they sound. Might take the plunge, I wonder if this is actually how they look


 
  
 Yeah, that's a Svetlana tube. The Sovtek 6AS7Gs were made by Svetlana.
  
 Not everybody around here is a big fan of them, but I like them. They may actually sound dull in the wrong system. In the right system and properly stimulated, they can sound pretty damn good.


----------



## Oskari

ultrainferno said:


> Are these the ones you talk about?
> 
> They're not too expensive, but they're the new logo style. So I suppose these are not the ones


 
  
 Looks like it. Nobody ever *really* heard the sound of a logo...


----------



## magiccabbage

oskari said:


> Yeah, that's a Svetlana tube. The Sovtek 6AS7Gs were made by Svetlana.
> 
> Not everybody around here is a big fan of them, but I like them. They may actually sound dull in the wrong system. In the right system and properly stimulated, they can sound pretty damn good.


 
 I might get them for the Glenn OTL. Im thinking ¬
  
 Mullard 6080
 Sovtek 6A7SG
 Bendix 6080
 RCA 6A7SG and another set of 5998 as spares
  
 Anyone know if the Glenn OTL can take 6528 tubes or maybe the tube is 6520?


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> These are my secret weapons against Glenn's US tubes.....................


 

 Stavros I didn't realize we were in a tube war  ?
  
 Should I bring some of my lowly American tubes next week or do you have enough of them ????
  
 What I think the European tubes do best is empty your wallet !!!!!!!!!!
  
 And lets give credit were credit is due The Russian Svetlana 6H13 will kick some ass in the 6AS7 slot at four tubes for $24.00.
 I thought the 6H13 sounded as good as the GEC 6AS7s.  Maybe I am tone deaf but my amps don't sound to bad.


----------



## Oskari

2359glenn said:


> And lets give credit were credit is due The Russian Svetlana 6H13 will kick some ass in the 6AS7 slot at four tubes for $24.00.
> I thought the 6H13 sounded as good as the GEC 6AS7s.  Maybe I am tone deaf but my amps don't sound to bad.


 
  
 Ah, I failed to mention that the Sovtek 6AS7G is the same thing as the Svetlana 6H13C aka 6N13S.
  
 I don't think that you are tone deaf at all, Glenn.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> Stavros I didn't realize we were in a tube war  ?
> 
> Should I bring some of my lowly American tubes next week or do you have enough of them ????
> 
> ...


 
 Wow its also a very nice looking tube


----------



## GrindingThud

Ow, that's sacrilege (comparing to the GEC). The 6H13 biases up close to the 6AS7G, but the transconductance is quite a bit lower...the lowest of all the family. Even when I drive them with a constant current source they sound different to me. That being said, they are excellent tubes....especially the older ones....and better than most 6AS7G. 



2359glenn said:


> And lets give credit were credit is due The Russian Svetlana 6H13 will kick some ass in the 6AS7 slot at four tubes for $24.00.
> I thought the 6H13 sounded as good as the GEC 6AS7s.  Maybe I am tone deaf but my amps don't sound to bad.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> I might get them for the Glenn OTL. Im thinking ¬
> 
> Mullard 6080
> Sovtek 6A7SG
> ...


 
  
 5998 is one of the best on glenns amp so far. i really like how they sound! the bendix are ok. i do not like RCA 6AS7G personally, warm and sweet, but can be grainy in treble at times.
  
  
  


grindingthud said:


> Ow, that's sacrilege (comparing to the GEC). The 6H13 biases up close to the 6AS7G, but the transconductance is quite a bit lower...the lowest of all the family. Even when I drive them with a constant current source they sound different to me. That being said, they are excellent tubes....especially the older ones....and better than most 6AS7G.


 
 +1
  
 i haven't heard the svetlana tube, but i don't think they would sound better than the GEC paired with the right rectifier/driver.


----------



## GrindingThud

When I checked with them last month, they had none left....if you find they do have them now, let us know. I want one just to have it in the collection. 


magiccabbage said:


> here on vacuumtubes.net .... 3rd from the bottom - 35 dollars each which i don't think is too bad unless its a typo. I have never heard them myself¬
> 
> http://www.vacuumtubes.net/RES%20Audio%20pages/5998.html


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i saw a pair on ebay not too long ago for 100$
  
 didn't buy those since now i have GEC 6080 which i guess would be better..... and with 5998, 421A, and GEC around, would need some impressions before i decided to buy.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> i saw a pair on ebay not too long ago for 100$
> 
> didn't buy those since now i have GEC 6080 which i guess would be better..... and with 5998, 421A, and GEC around, would need some impressions before i decided to buy.


 
 Eh my birthday is coming up soon, you should sell me a pair of you GEC's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. There are none left on ebay.


----------



## 2359glenn

grindingthud said:


> Ow, that's sacrilege (comparing to the GEC). The 6H13 biases up close to the 6AS7G, but the transconductance is quite a bit lower...the lowest of all the family. Even when I drive them with a constant current source they sound different to me. That being said, they are excellent tubes....especially the older ones....and better than most 6AS7G.


 

 Sacrilege? it is a sacrilege what GEC 6AS7s cost I buy Transformers for what these cost.
 The 6H13 is the best 6AS7 for $6.00. I guess no bragging rights though.
   Or is this back to the tube war they just sound better because they are made in Europe.
 Constant current source on what? The 6AS7? What current are you running the 6AS7/6H13s at? In what amp?


----------



## GrindingThud

I would have hoped that it sounded like the carbon 6080s. The graphs have the 6336 settle in with a similar operating point to the 6080 in the same circuit (just a little less cathode voltage), so it should sound close. It can handle twice the current as 6080...so maybe to make it sound best, we'd need to run it hotter? How much B+ current does a Glenn amp have to give?



dubstep girl said:


> I tried 6336A and i did not really like them, they didnt seem any more powerful and sound quality wasnt noticeably better than the other tubes. Ill try. Them again later though


----------



## magiccabbage

grindingthud said:


> I would have hoped that it sounded like the carbon 6080s. The graphs have the 6336 settle in with a similar operating point to the 6080 in the same circuit (just a little less cathode voltage), so it should sound close. It can handle twice the current as 6080...so maybe to make it sound best, we'd need to run it hotter? How much B+ current does a Glenn amp have to give?


 
 Maybe in the OTL  NeoGeo has with the bigger transformer the 6336 has more power? That is the OTL i have decided on. I also love the voltage switch. ¬ 
  
  as apposed to - 
  
 Maybe this makes a difference and maybe not.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> Eh my birthday is coming up soon, you should sell me a pair of you GEC's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 omg you're right!@##!
  
 all the ones from the uk are gone!
  
 theres a used pair for sale here though, auction 
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-RADIO-VALVE-TUBE-2-X-GEC-CV2523-A1834-6AS7G-52-/161144077714?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item2584ef7d92
  




  
 whens you're birthday btw?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> Maybe in the OTL  NeoGeo has with the bigger transformer the 6336 has more power? That is the OTL i have decided on. I also love the voltage switch. ¬
> 
> as apposed to -
> 
> Maybe this makes a difference and maybe not.


 
  
 i gotta try again, but i didn't notice any more power with 6336A, ill have to try again later since that was a brief listen.


----------



## 2359glenn

Everything sounds different to different people.
 what sounds good to one person doesn't sound good to another.
 This is why I don't supply tubes with the amp.


----------



## GrindingThud

Too true, for $6 a pop for squeeky clean milspec tubes with low microphonics they are hard to beat. When biased properly, they all sound similar to me if the tube is quiet to begin with. I'd say that I have a WA3++, but it's not really a Woo any more. Most of what's left original is the case and transformer. Power supply, heater circuit, and power section are all different. I'm running a pair of Camille cascode constant current sources set at 45ma each on the output stage now. Tube runs at 90ma. The driver stage is E88CC equivalent gain stage DC coupled to E88CC cathode follower buffer, then cap coupled to the 6AS7. The little platform does not have much more to give.

Ok, sacrilege is an unfair assessment of the tube and probably more appropriately used to describe the transistors in my cathode circuit. 
I do love your OTL amp design. At some point I'll ask to be a card carrying member. 



2359glenn said:


> Sacrilege? it is a sacrilege what GEC 6AS7s cost I buy Transformers for what these cost.
> The 6H13 is the best 6AS7 for $6.00. I guess no bragging rights though.
> Or is this back to the tube war they just sound better because they are made in Europe.
> Constant current source on what? The 6AS7? What current are you running the 6AS7/6H13s at? In what amp?


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> omg you're right!@##!
> 
> all the ones from the uk are gone!
> 
> ...


 
 The 8th of December.


----------



## Neogeo333

Get them, magic your gonna love the GEC mids and soundstage.  It should really shine with dynamic cans.  Just tried the Bendix 6080wb and all I hear is good detail retrieval and ok mids.  It lost all the bass the 6336 provided.  Maybe it can be a better match with easier to drive cans.  I've yet to try any of my GEC on the OTL.


----------



## rosgr63

oskari said:


> Tubes at the ready!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That was my point,  as Mullard naver made any B65s.


oskari said:


> Looks like it. *Nobody ever *really* heard the sound of a logo*...


 
  
 It gets better, I like it Oskari!!!!!!!!
  


2359glenn said:


> Stavros I didn't realize we were in a tube war  ?
> 
> Should I bring some of my lowly American tubes next week or do you have enough of them ????
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 No need to bring any I have enough US and CCCP tubes including some experimental ones.
 Tube wars have never stopped since Lee De Forest's Audion first came out.
 It's true some European drivers cost more than an amp.
  
  
  


neogeo333 said:


> Get them, magic your gonna love the GEC mids and soundstage.  It should really shine with dynamic cans.  Just tried the Bendix 6080wb and all I hear is good detail retrieval and ok mids.  It lost all the bass the 6336 provided.  Maybe it can be a better match with easier to drive cans.  I've yet to try any of my GEC on the OTL.


 
  
 George, you can't compare the Bendix with the 6336.
 After all they are 6080's and to me one of  the best sounding ones.
  
  
 Clayton are you with the NY gang or with the European one?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

im trying to compare 5998 vs 421A, i think they sound basically the same...more listening, maybe the 421A is slightly better, but i don't think there really is a huge difference even if there is one. i have decided that this is my favorite and imo best sounding with beyerdynamic t1.
  
 now switching to the GEC 6AS7G, oh my huge difference, this tube sounds best with the hd 800.
  
 also i think the older grey plate western electric 422A sounds very slightly better than the regular tung sol 5998 colored plate version of the 422A, basically same tube, the old one might be slightly more dimensional but basically the same thing again.


----------



## Neogeo333

Shouldnt all 5998 and 421A the same?  The 421A are just hand picked 5998. 
  
 I couldnt listen to the Bendix any longer and popped in the 5998.  The magic is back again.  Very close to the 6336 but still bass not as tight.  Mids and highs are wonderful with the 5998.  Using planar cans here so I could not comment on other phones.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

neogeo333 said:


> Shouldnt all 5998 and 421A the same?  The 421A are just hand picked 5998.
> 
> I couldnt listen to the Bendix any longer and popped in the 5998.  The magic is back again.  Very close to the 6336 but still bass not as tight.  Mids and highs are wonderful with the 5998.  Using planar cans here so I could not comment on other phones.


 
  
 many people claim 421A is better. im nt so sure.
  
 they sure do cost twice the price of 5998.


----------



## Neogeo333

That name brand always been associated with higher price.


----------



## rosgr63

Probably made by TS but of higher spec with closely matched sections and tighter tolerances.
  
 Other factories also made tubes for WE with better specs.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have to say I was pleasantly surprised with the cheap Russian Svetlana 6AS7G/6N13S black plates. Doesn't sound too different from an American one


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> .
> 
> Clayton are you with the NY gang or with the European one?


 
 Clayton you best answer this one correctly.
  
 These Europeans you have to watch them they will turn on you


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Clayton you best answer this one correctly.
> 
> These Europeans you have to watch them they will turn on you


 
  
 Clayton was assimilated last August Glenn, sorry


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> I have to say I was pleasantly surprised with the cheap Russian Svetlana 6AS7G/6N13S black plates. Doesn't sound too different from an American one


 

 Except most are quieter less noise then the American tubes
  
 And they can handle more current then any of the other tubes
  
 They are the only 6AS7 tubes that can be used in Atma-Sphere amps
  
 The American and European tubes will blow up in those OTL amps


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> Clayton are you with the NY gang or with the European one?


 
  


2359glenn said:


> Clayton you best answer this one correctly. These Europeans you have to watch them they will turn on you


 
  


ultrainferno said:


> Clayton was assimilated last August Glenn, sorry


 
  
_*Static, static... Newsbrief, news brief, briefly news.*_
_*Receiving transmission. cieving .... ansmission. .. ..*_
  
*- .... .. ...  .. ...  .- -.  .- .-.. .. . -.  .-. .- -.-. .  ..-. .-. --- --  - .... .  --- ..- - . .-.  .-.. .. -- .. - ...  --- ..-.  .--. .-.. .- -. . -  -- .- .-. ... .-.-.-  .-- .  .... .- ...- .  .- -... -.. ..- -.-. - . -..  -.-. .-.. .- -.-- - --- -.  ... ..-.  .. -.  .- -.  .- - - . -- .--. -  - ---  -.-. --- -. ...- .. -. -.-. .  .... .. --  - .... .- -  - .... .  -... . ... -  - ..- -... . ...  --- .-.  ...- .- .-.. ...- . ...  .- .-. .  ..-. .-. --- --  --- ..- .-.  .--. .-.. .- -. . - --..--  -- .- .-. ... .-.-.-  -.-. .- -. -  .-- .  .- .-.. .-..  .--- ..- ... -  --. . -  .- .-.. --- -. --. ..--..*


----------



## Ultrainferno

Poor Clayton 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Remember me posting a week or two ago I found a batch of RK60 and 596? Silence from the supplier till this morning but then he sent me this email
  
_Sorry but we can not find the valves, they are here, we have over 55million components in 40K sq ft warehousing. We are currently going through our stock but it will probably be next year some time before we check all the tubes. _
  
 Guess we'll have to wait


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Poor Clayton
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Those tubes were abducted by Martians.


----------



## daigo

2359glenn said:


> Everything sounds different to different people.
> what sounds good to one person doesn't sound good to another.
> This is why I don't supply tubes with the amp.


 
  
 So very true.


----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> _*Static, static... Newsbrief, news brief, briefly news.*_
> _*Receiving transmission. cieving .... ansmission. .. ..*_
> 
> *- .... .. ...  .. ...  .- -.  .- .-.. .. . -.  .-. .- -.-. .  ..-. .-. --- --  - .... .  --- ..- - . .-.  .-.. .. -- .. - ...  --- ..-.  .--. .-.. .- -. . -  -- .- .-. ... .-.-.-  .-- .  .... .- ...- .  .- -... -.. ..- -.-. - . -..  -.-. .-.. .- -.-- - --- -.  ... ..-.  .. -.  .- -.  .- - - . -- .--. -  - ---  -.-. --- -. ...- .. -. -.-. .  .... .. --  - .... .- -  - .... .  -... . ... -  - ..- -... . ...  --- .-.  ...- .- .-.. ...- . ...  .- .-. .  ..-. .-. --- --  --- ..- .-.  .--. .-.. .- -. . - --..--  -- .- .-. ... .-.-.-  -.-. .- -. -  .-- .  .- .-.. .-..  .--- ..- ... -  --. . -  .- .-.. --- -. --. ..--..*


 
  
  
 We need all the support we can get.
  
 We are the weak ones and need a place to retreat if we loose.
  
 Hawaii sounds ideal to me..........
  
 We'l offer vol au vent and galaktoboureko in return.
  
 I am sure some 1578/1579 will help win a battle or two...........


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> We need all the support we can get. We are the weak ones and need a place to retreat if we loose.
> _*Hawaii sounds ideal to me..........*_
> We'l offer vol au vent and galaktoboureko in return.
> I am sure some 1578/1579 will help win a battle or two...........


 
  
 My sister works at the Disney Aulani Resort. Anyone for swim?
 I hear that Ultra- is pretty good floating downstream with a beer in hand.
 Flotilla to follow from Greece...


----------



## rosgr63

That would be fine!
  
 Can I hide inside the monkey so Glenn & David don't find me?
  
 I can clean, vacuum, wash dishes, make coffee, smile all the time and what else it takes to get a job there........
 Would your lovely sister put a good word in for me please?


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> That would be fine!
> 
> Can I hide inside the monkey so Glenn & David don't find me?
> 
> ...


 
  
 ^ Now those are the kind of tubes I'm interested in, too!
 I will PM my sister soon. Group rates!


----------



## dminches

What rectifiers are replacements for 5Y3s?


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> What rectifiers are replacements for 5Y3s?


 

 5Y3 should be easily obtainable but you can probobly use a GZ34 it also has a 2amp heater.


----------



## 2359glenn

Well I guess I lost the war went to the bank at lunch to exchange dollars for Euros .


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> 5Y3 should be easily obtainable but you can probobly use a GZ34 it also has a 2amp heater.


 
  
 This isn't for me and isn't for one of your amps.  Someone posted the question in another forum so I figured I would go to the experts here for an answer.


----------



## Skylab

The 5Y3G is a nice rectifier tube IMHO. I actually preferred it over the 5U4G in the Deware Mini-Torri when I had it.


----------



## dminches

Which 5Y3G did you use?


----------



## magiccabbage

skylab said:


> The 5Y3G is a nice rectifier tube IMHO. I actually preferred it over the 5U4G in the Deware Mini-Torri when I had it.


 
 Have you tried a Glenn amp yourself?


----------



## Skylab

dminches said:


> Which 5Y3G did you use?




A bunch, of course  But the Sylvania, Ken-Rad, and Raytheon all sounded pretty much the same to me.



magiccabbage said:


> Have you tried a Glenn amp yourself?


 

No, although I would very much like to hear one at some point. There is a steady stream of headphone amps through here these days for me to review on InnerFidelity, and so I don't have any interest in buying any headphone amps. And I don't think Glenn is trying to build a big business, so I've never approached him to send me one to review, since if he did send one and I did review it on IF, it would probably result in a lot more requests for him to build more of them.

I read this thread because I have some good friends who post here a lot and I like tube talk


----------



## Clayton SF

I've been told by Glenn that the 5Y3 will burn out fast in his 300B amps so I haven't used them. It is my favorite diminutive rectifier.


----------



## dminches

I have several which I have never listened to.  I'll have to see what component I can use them in.


----------



## magiccabbage

skylab said:


> A bunch, of course
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes I agree the chat on here is usually of a high caliber and a lot of fun. I was wondering about the 6528 power tube if anybody had heard it in an OTL? Maybe you have experience with this tube? Supposedly very powerful. Sorry if you have been asked this a thousand times.


----------



## wotts

skylab said:


> A bunch, of course
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'll be in Chicago for Thanksgiving. I can drop off the OTL if you would like to give it a listen.


----------



## Skylab

magiccabbage said:


> Yes I agree the chat on here is usually of a high caliber and a lot of fun. I was wondering about the 6528 power tube if anybody had heard it in an OTL? Maybe you have experience with this tube? Supposedly very powerful. Sorry if you have been asked this a thousand times.




The 6528 is a terrible sounding tube. In that type, the 6336 is the way to go. 



wotts said:


> I'll be in Chicago for Thanksgiving. I can drop off the OTL if you would like to give it a listen. :evil:




Thanks, but I actually won't be here!!! But that's a very kind offer, Tim, thanks.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

skylab said:


> The 5Y3G is a nice rectifier tube IMHO. I actually preferred it over the 5U4G in the Deware Mini-Torri when I had it.


 
  
 the decware amps are specifically voiced and designed around the 5y3 aren't they?


----------



## Skylab

I don't know about "voiced", but they are more stable with the 5Y3G. 

Oh and sorry for my failing memory - it was the CSP-2 I had that used the 5Y3G, not the Mini-Torri.


----------



## Clayton SF

dubstep girl said:


> the decware amps are specifically voiced and designed around the 5y3 aren't they?


 
  
 I own 4 decware amps and 3 of them shipped with 5U4G rectifiers. The 4th one shipped with EZ81s--the Mini Torii.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

doing more listening with the glenn otl tonight.i will be making a glenn amp review + tube rolling notes post soon!
  
 im liking this rk60, its basically a baby 596 offering a slightly more relaxed presentation. its very well rounded and i don't notice anything wrong with the tube. its not the best, but its quite a solid contender that holds its own against much more expensive tubes.
  
 the 596 sounds incredible with this amp too! i think 596 + 5998 tung sols will be something i will keep in the glenn amp for quite some time... the 596 sounds different than it did on the woo amps as well.


----------



## Silent One

Outstanding, DG! This thread could use more notes and pix. Not like we never get any but it's nice to stay current.


----------



## jc9394

SO, how are your Shindo Labs coming along?  I will be going to find some Karen this weekend...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looks like Clayton, Glenn and myself now started an RK60 hype


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ultrainferno said:


> Looks like Clayton, Glenn and myself now started an RK60 hype


 
 yes!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 i should have 5 rk60 tubes coming in this friday... i should of bought all 7 that where in stock at that one link i posted...someone else bought them.....


----------



## Ultrainferno

I only have the one Glenn gave me


----------



## jc9394

And I have none... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyone know the difference between 6336A and 6336B?  How is RCA compare to Cetron?


----------



## Ultrainferno

jc9394 said:


> And I have none...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can't remember but I'm pretty sure Glenn talked about it somewhere in this thread
  
 http://www.die-wuestens.de/rd/6336Ad.pdf
 http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/077/6/6336B.pdf


----------



## jc9394

Thanks Ultra, same as what john57 said in his earlier post.
  
 "~~Today was my first day I read up the 6336 tubes in detail. As far I could tell the 6336A and the B version was mostly the same except possibility that the B version which may have been rated at a higher JAN vibration standard."


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> SO, how are your Shindo Labs coming along?  I will be going to find some Karen this weekend...


 
  





 Last week, YesAsia shipped my 20th anniversary CDs/DVD "Age of MOKnificence."
  





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Shindo rig got tone, among the other usual 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




suspects! I've got to find a way to afford speakers, though. Headphones with the rig sounds good, but with speakers musical notes can fully work their wonder. Been enjoying some vinyl with the rig, too. Satisfied with the pairing, I was _moved_ to purchase a new Vinyl LP:
  
 Janos Starker Dvorak Cello Concerto (Pre-Order)
  
  
 Can't wait for SoundStageDirect to ship that bad boy! I already have
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Veuve Clicquot in stock! Currently, I've 26 hrs on the Pre and 34 hrs on the amps.


----------



## jc9394

Yeah, I love ordering from YesAsia too. Will look for that CD tomorrow.


----------



## Silent One

Your trip caught me completely off guard! If I had any kind of advance notice, I would have sent you a few dollars for an item or two. Like s-a-y... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 a tea cup!


----------



## Ultrainferno

jc9394 said:


> Thanks Ultra, same as what john57 said in his earlier post.
> 
> "~~Today was my first day I read up the 6336 tubes in detail. As far I could tell the 6336A and the B version was mostly the same except possibility that the B version which may have been rated at a higher JAN vibration standard."


 
  
 6336s here are widely available. Must be because of dealers charging *40€ a piece*!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i bought a pair on ebay fairly cheap, one of them just died on me today.....oh well.


----------



## rosgr63

Not all 6336's are suitable, some may arc over.
  
 The safest bet are the Cetron and those which have a similar structure.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Your trip caught me completely off guard! If I had any kind of advance notice, I would have sent you a few dollars for an item or two. Like s-a-y... :rolleyes:  a tea cup!




Traditional Chinese one? Any pattern preference?

My trip caught me off guard too, there is a rumor floating that a Chicago trip will be in a near future for a week long meeting but never confirmed. On last Tuesday, got an email from my manager saying the Chicago trip is cancelled but you need to fly to Japan instead. It is out of nowhere for trip to Japan and not to mention getting last minute ticket is not fun too, there are only two seat left for my flight.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ jc9394--are you still listening to your SWA b22 amp? I am. It's great that you don't have to worry about finding new tube combos for a great ss amp. Just sit back and enjoy the music.
  
 You should visit more often.


----------



## rosgr63

Behave you two.........
 BTW it's β22 + σ22 not b22 + s22
  
 Here's a nice rectifier photo:


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> Behave you two.........
> BTW it's β22 + σ22 not b22 + s22


 
  
 I know. I was just too lazy to find out how to create those symbols on my keyboard.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rosgr63 said:


> Not all 6336's are suitable, some may arc over.
> 
> The safest bet are the Cetron and those which have a similar structure.


 
 yeah thats what happened to me i think
  
 it was a 6336A
  
 i just threw them away right now. oh well, they were only 50$. i should of gone for the 150$ pairs online.


----------



## Skylab

rosgr63 said:


> Not all 6336's are suitable, some may arc over.
> 
> The safest bet are the Cetron and those which have a similar structure.


 
  
  
 Indeed.  Also, I am fairly certain that only Cetron made the 6336B (irrespective of brand)


----------



## dminches

dubstep girl said:


> yeah thats what happened to me i think
> 
> it was a 6336A
> 
> i just threw them away right now. oh well, they were only 50$. i should of gone for the 150$ pairs online.


 
  
 I have an extra pair of TungSols which I think are identical to the Centrons.  Glenn blessed them.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> yeah thats what happened to me i think
> 
> it was a 6336A
> 
> i just threw them away right now. oh well, they were only 50$. i should of gone for the 150$ pairs online.


 
 Do me a favor? Can you put a 596 in the Glenn and take a pic? I wanna see what it looks like in the new OTL. BTW my birthday is the 8th of December.


----------



## Skylab

dminches said:


> I have an extra pair of TungSols which I think are identical to the Centrons.  Glenn blessed them.


 
  
 By the time the 6336B came to exist, Cetron owned Tung-Sol.


----------



## dminches

skylab said:


> By the time the 6336B came to exist, Cetron owned Tung-Sol.


 
  
 There you go.
  
 I guess it is possible that there could have been different designs, but I think they look the same.


----------



## Skylab

Four years ago I did a bunch of research into Cetron:
  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/21/215937.html
  
 The formatting of my post on AA got messed up, but the basics are there, for those interested in a bit of tube manufacturing history.


----------



## dminches

Now that is a lot of information.  Somebody had some extra time on their hands.  Thanks.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice article Rob, thanks for the link.
  
 Here's one of my quad:


----------



## Skylab

Nice, Stavros.
  
 A while back I had some 6336's branded Mullard, but they were obviously Cetron.


----------



## rosgr63

Which did you like better the A or the B?


----------



## Skylab

If I recall correctly, I only ever tried the B.  But it's been a while...


----------



## magiccabbage

skylab said:


> Four years ago I did a bunch of research into Cetron:
> 
> http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/21/215937.html
> 
> The formatting of my post on AA got messed up, but the basics are there, for those interested in a bit of tube manufacturing history.


 
 Just read it, very interesting. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Traditional Chinese one? Any pattern preference?
> 
> My trip caught me off guard too, there is a rumor floating that a Chicago trip will be in a near future for a week long meeting but never confirmed. On last Tuesday, got an email from my manager saying the Chicago trip is cancelled but you need to fly to Japan instead. It is out of nowhere for trip to Japan and not to mention getting last minute ticket is not fun too, there are only two seat left for my flight.


 
  
 I would have looked for traditional Japanese, being you are/were in Japan. Enjoy your flight back.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> ^ jc9394--are you still listening to your SWA b22 amp? I am. It's great that you don't have to worry about finding new tube combos for a great ss amp. Just sit back and enjoy the music.
> 
> You should visit more often.




Yeah, still loving the beta22. Been visiting too much lately and wife is not that happy. (Business trip)


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I would have looked for traditional Japanese, being you are/were in Japan. Enjoy your flight back.




That is too bad, waiting for a taxi to KIX and head over to HKG.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> That is too bad, waiting for a taxi to KIX and head over to HKG.


 
  
 Perhaps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




a traditional Black Gaiwan?! (any colour actually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 Porcelain - from 80ml - 200ml


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Very nice article Rob, thanks for the link.
> 
> Here's one of my quad:


 

 Yes this is what the good ones look like no matter what brand is on them.


----------



## 2359glenn

This is one of the tubes that blew up in Stavros amp while I still had it.
 As you can see it is a Tung-Sol Chatham .
*Do not buy these they are no good.  I am glad I didn't have my headphones plugged in*
*when I turned on the amp with these in the amp.*
 There are some tung-sols that are like the good ones


----------



## 2359glenn

DG are these like the ones that blew up on you ?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> DG are these like the ones that blew up on you ?


 
  
  
 no, they are like the good ones. they look just like the cetron with the same plate type and everything else.
  
 these were the ones actually http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PAIR-BECKMAN-6336A-TUBES-TESTED-/221298393829 if u click on the picture once or twice, it'll take u to the original thingy and u can see more pics of them.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> rosgr63 said:
> 
> 
> > Behave you two.........
> ...


 
 Beta 22? When does the final version come out?


----------



## Silent One

You know... I thought about that, too.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> no, they are like the good ones. they look just like the cetron with the same plate type and everything else.
> 
> these were the ones actually http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PAIR-BECKMAN-6336A-TUBES-TESTED-/221298393829 if u click on the picture once or twice, it'll take u to the original thingy and u can see more pics of them.


 

 Did you try to get your money back?
 I got my money back + shipping and they told me to keep the tubes
 I will never put them in another amp though.
 Tried several of the newer stile and never had a problem


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> Did you try to get your money back?
> I got my money back + shipping and they told me to keep the tubes
> I will never put them in another amp though.
> Tried several of the newer stile and never had a problem


 
  
 nope. unfortunately already left feedback for them since they worked fine the first day 1 tried them.
  
 not really gonna worry about it, its only 50$. happy i haven't had any problems with any of the others tubes i have bought, especially the more expensive ones. i already threw the tubes away so not much i can do to return them if they request them.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> nope. unfortunately already left feedback for them since they worked fine the first day 1 tried them.
> 
> not really gonna worry about it, its only 50$. happy i haven't had any problems with any of the others tubes i have bought, especially the more expensive ones. i already threw the tubes away so not much i can do to return them if they request them.


 

 I should have sent you some spare fuses with the amp just in case a bad tube blows the fuse.
 It is T3.15 amp 250 volt


----------



## Neogeo333

dubstep girl said:


> no, they are like the good ones. they look just like the cetron with the same plate type and everything else.
> 
> these were the ones actually http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PAIR-BECKMAN-6336A-TUBES-TESTED-/221298393829 if u click on the picture once or twice, it'll take u to the original thingy and u can see more pics of them.


 

 Did the one of the right died?  Look at the white stuff on the right tube, it seems melted compared to the left one.  I had some rare CSF 6336A DOA and just put them in a box of collected dead tubes.  Some 5998 die easily too.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

more listening today.
  
 wow, the metall mullard gz34 is incredible with the glenn amp. probably the best tube along the WE422A. the hd 800 sound incredible right now!


----------



## magiccabbage

neogeo333 said:


> Did the one of the right died?  Look at the white stuff on the right tube, it seems melted compared to the left one.  I had some rare CSF 6336A DOA and just put them in a box of collected dead tubes.  Some 5998 die easily too.


 
 Ah George how are you? You should take some more pictures of your lovely OTL so i can stare at it some more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you got a 596?


----------



## Neogeo333

Hello Magic, im still moving things around here and will take pics soon.  Need to clear some space.   No 596 here.  Just going to keep using the 3dg4.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

neogeo333 said:


> Did the one of the right died?  Look at the white stuff on the right tube, it seems melted compared to the left one.  I had some rare CSF 6336A DOA and just put them in a box of collected dead tubes.  Some 5998 die easily too.


 
 not sure which one died.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

btw, fwiw, when i was listening to 6336. they sounded ok but not really more powerful than the other tubes, and they didnt sound amazing either. just average. maybe when jc sends me his pair, ill be able to compare again and see what they sound like.
  
 i only did a bit of listening with 3dg4, sounds like an ok tube, but it seems to make the other tubes more sensitive to microphony and noise.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Yes this is what the good ones look like no matter what brand is on them.


 
  
 They are the same as the GE you gave me.
  


longbowbbs said:


> Beta 22? When does the final version come out?


 
  
 Nice Eric, I like it!!!!!
 But you let me down, you never used the right characters, educated in Classics and that's how you write it?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The 3DG4 is a safe tube to use.
 The G34 may not last too long.


----------



## kazsud

dubstep girl said:


> more listening today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


*Googles tube* *gets sad*


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes this is what the good ones look like no matter what brand is on them.
> ...


 
 Pardon sir...


----------



## rosgr63

Wow, I didn't know I was royalty..........


----------



## Ultrainferno

You are the tube King, Stavros!


----------



## rosgr63

I like the title Ultra, I wish I was....
  
 I am just an addict that's all.
  
*And you are not helping me give up tubes........*
  
 Have a nice evening, enjoy the local beer!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I like the title Ultra, I wish I was....
> 
> I am just an addict that's all.
> 
> ...


 
  
*Give up tubes* *??*
 What am I supposed to do with all these parts I bought for the amp I am building for you???
*I certainly am not helping the situation. *


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> You are the tube King, Stavros!


 
 Plus I know I could not type a beta as good as a native...


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> I like the title Ultra, I wish I was....
> 
> I am just an addict that's all.
> 
> ...


 
  





 When listening to digital files while in
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 recovery, do you prefer AIFF; WAV; FLAC...?


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> *Give up tubes* *??*
> What am I supposed to do with all these parts I bought for the amp I am building for you???
> *I certainly am not helping the situation. *


 
  
  
 You are so bad again..............you are not helping me at all...........
 I am going to spend my weekend in the kennel with Bella because I am going crazy!!!!!
  


longbowbbs said:


> Plus I know I could not type a beta as good as a native...


 
  
  
 You can do better than that, what kind of excuse is this?
 Eric is there a nice hide out in the nearby woods for me?
 I don't mind the bears as long as we can share the honey........
  
  


silent one said:


> When listening to digital files while in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I am into Il Divo at the minute, is that a sign of insanity??????????
 I have a huge library of uncompressed files but I mostly listen to mp3 at 320.
  
 When I hide in Eric's wood's I'll be in recovery mode, now I am too excited for Glenn coming next week.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > *Give up tubes* *??*
> ...


 
 Here is a picture of the backyard....A cool November morning. The lake is not frozen yet.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice!!!!!!!
  
 I can't see my hide out.............


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Very nice!!!!!!!
> 
> I can't see my hide out.............


 
 ???? Of course not! it's hidden!


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> Here is a picture of the backyard....A cool November morning. The lake is not frozen yet.


 
  
 Fantastic foto!


----------



## longbowbbs

Raking your yard in the fall when you live in a forest is useless....So, I will go listen to headphones!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Awesome. I'd love having a view like that, but I can't complain. Right Clayton?


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> ???? Of course not! it's hidden!


 
  
  
 How stupid of me...........


----------



## rosgr63

Listening to Thelma Houston & Jerry Butler.
  
 Glenn 6SN7/LP2/5998 OTL, driving Grado SR325is.
 They sound very nice.
  
 BTW, just to make it clear when the *Tube Wars* start, I'll be using All American Tubes and headphones.
 Glenn will have to make do with the CCCP tubes and European/Japanese Headphones.
  
 Who wants to bet on the winner?
  
 Eric is collecting the bets..................
  
 Some of Glenn's Secret Tubes:


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Listening to Thelma Houston & Jerry Butler.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Eric is collecting the bets..................


 
 The house is only collecting a 25% commission for this weekend only!


----------



## rosgr63

Place you bets.
  
 Here's one of my weapons, an experimental Raytheon 6SN7:


----------



## Sweden

It seem I have to wait till February to join the 2359glenn OTL club but I'm already excited! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 What tubes have you HD800 owners been loving? Powerful bass, beautiful clear and warm mids and smooth and detailed highs with a deep soundstage and good imaging sounds about right...
 The cheaper the better is a good motto here.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Awesome. I'd love having a view like that, but I can't complain. Right Clayton?


 

 Right, Ultra-! Ultra-, at least you have a view of a neighbor's crazy cat and some greenery.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Listening to Thelma Houston & Jerry Butler.
> 
> Glenn 6SN7/LP2/5998 OTL, driving Grado SR325is.
> They sound very nice.
> ...


 

*What I get the worst sounding 6SN7s there are What!!!!!!!!!!!*
 I will take a pair of 6H13C for outputs and almost any American 6SN7
 Then we can start switching cheep American 6SN7s and Your expensive European B65s and such.
 I will have to bring some Westinghouse 6SN7s and KEN-RAD 1633 that I paid $1.00 for.
  
 We can have the tube wars in between eating Mama's Christmas cookies with hot coffee.


----------



## Silent One

sweden said:


> It seem I have to wait till February to join the 2359glenn OTL club but I'm already excited!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




 I hope to fall in after you...


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Place you bets.
> 
> Here's one of my weapons, an experimental Raytheon 6SN7:


 
  
 Sexy! I like Ray's...


----------



## Silent One

Hoo-ray for Beer French bubbly! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I finally brought home a pair of speakers - Pre-Owned KEF Corda 9's. Can't wait to leash them up to both the vintage Sansui G-22000 and Shindo Lab monos. Speaking of which, I currently have Raytheon's for both 6BM8 & 6AU4 slots. Would any of you glass gurus know what's the premium tubes for those positions? Thanks.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Hoo-ray for Beer French bubbly!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Whats the sensitivity like on those?


----------



## magiccabbage

of course we would all love to see pics.


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> Hoo-ray for Beer French bubbly!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I just looked up those speakers, very nice!


----------



## Sweden

silent one said:


> I hope to fall in after you...


 

 There is a Swedish saying; The one who wait for something special cant wait too long!


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > Hoo-ray for Beer French bubbly!
> ...


 
 91 db


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> of course we would all love to see pics.


 





 But... where will I put them?


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I just looked up those speakers, very nice!


 
  
 Thanks. I'm out to prove once and for all that Astrud Gilberto's vocals really can float through mid-air, without meditation or... ahem, unusual substances.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> 91 db


 
 perfect for tubes. I tried the Kef R500 with WA2 as pre amp but i wasn't that gone on the sound. Do you know if the sensitivity has to be high for the pre-amp function? Maybe the fact that i was using a Rotel integrated amp as apposed to a power amp. 


silent one said:


> Thanks. I'm out to prove once and for all that Astrud Gilberto's vocals really can float through mid-air, without meditation or... ahem, unusual substances.


 
 You are giving that album a lot of attention lately i think i might have to heat up the woo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





silent one said:


> But... where will I put them?


 
 Good point


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> You are giving that album a lot of attention lately i think i might have to heat up the woo.


 
  
 I think it's very easy to dismiss her feather light, fresh and breathy vocals as merely simple singing and unsophisticated. Until you hear said vocals on a transparent, immediate and musical tube amp with detail and depth. And your joy quickly turns to disappointment when you learn many of her tracks only average some 3 minutes on a good night. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And you wildly search for more of her material.
  
 Though, my blocks appreciate highly sensitive speakers, they're pumping 40wpc so that helps a bit. No issues with the HE-6 pairing... (7.5 wpc @ 50 Ohms)


----------



## koiloco

Does Glenn have a website for me to check out his amps?  Thx.


----------



## Silent One

Yeah, right here... step right up, folks!


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> Hoo-ray for Beer French bubbly!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My 300B mono blocks use TV damper diodes like the 6AU4 and I find Tung-Sol the best. All my personal amps
 use TV damper diodes I only use 5U4 types in amps I sell because everybody wants them.
 Damper diodes are far superior as rectifiers then the 5U4 types.
 Don't know about the 6BM8 though


----------



## 2359glenn

koiloco said:


> Does Glenn have a website for me to check out his amps?  Thx.


 

 I have no website just what is said on here.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> My 300B mono blocks use TV damper diodes like the 6AU4 and I find Tung-Sol the best. All my personal amps
> use TV damper diodes I only use 5U4 types in amps I sell because everybody wants them.
> Damper diodes are far superior as rectifiers then the 5U4 types.
> Don't know about the 6BM8 though


 
  
 Thanks for your assistance, that's good to know on the TV damper diode. Will hunt for some Tung-Sol's and check pricing Sunday.


----------



## koiloco

2359glenn said:


> I have no website just what is said on here.


 
 Thx Glenn for clarifying.


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I have no website just what is said on here.
> ...


 
 "We are the world....We are the 2359Glenn website....."  (Waving arms in the air)


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> Thanks for your assistance, that's good to know on the TV damper diode. Will hunt for some Tung-Sol's and check pricing Sunday.


 

 6AU4 damper diodes are very cheep maybe $8 each


----------



## Silent One

Ooh, I like what I hear!


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> *What I get the worst sounding 6SN7s there are What!!!!!!!!!!!*
> I will take a pair of 6H13C for outputs and almost any American 6SN7
> Then we can start switching cheep American 6SN7s and Your expensive European B65s and such.
> I will have to bring some Westinghouse 6SN7s and KEN-RAD 1633 that I paid $1.00 for.
> ...


 
  
  
 These CCCP tubes are very rare and expensive.
 I have 1633's even TS round Plates so no need to bring any.
 Mama's cookies are my *last secret weapon* and the only one that can make me or you submit into defeat.
 The winner will be the one for whom they are made for.
 Since you are the one, I might as well concede defeat..............
 So much for my B65, ECC32, ECC33, ECC34, ECC35, QA2408 to name a few................
  
  
  


silent one said:


> Hoo-ray for Beer French bubbly!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Well done SO, they are nice speakers.
  


longbowbbs said:


> "We are the world....We are the 2359Glenn website....."  (Waving arms in the air)


 
  
 Eric I conceded defeat, no more bets...............


----------



## 2359glenn

So Mama is my secret weapon with her cookies I like it.
 We can still listen to your B65, ECC32, ECC33, ECC34, ECC35, QA2408 after
 we eat some Christmas cookies.


----------



## 2359glenn

This is my latest build It is for somebody in Morocco
 It uses six 6BL7s for outputs or two or four 6AS7s or two 6336.
 It won't be finished until I get back from visiting Stavros.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> This is my latest build It is for somebody in Morocco
> It uses six 6BL7s for outputs or two or four 6AS7s or two 6336.
> It won't be finished until I get back from visiting Stavros.


 
 how does it sound? Compared to the other OTLs?


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> So Mama is my secret weapon with her cookies I like it.
> We can still listen to your B65, ECC32, ECC33, ECC34, ECC35, QA2408 after
> we eat some Christmas cookies.


 
  
  
 Eric, Glenn is using weapons of mass destruction against me.
  
*Please help.................Ι am getting **desperate!!!!!!!*


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looks lovely Glenn!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Eric, Glenn is using weapons of mass destruction against me.
> 
> *Please help.................Ι am getting **desperate!!!!!!!*


 

 What do you mean you have the cookies
 and I am sitting here in the USA with no cookies.


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> how does it sound? Compared to the other OTLs?


 

 Using 6BL7s are not going to have the power the 6AS7s have but they sound better with high impedance phones.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> What do you mean you have the cookies
> and I am sitting here in the USA with no cookies.


 
  
 I don't have them, I've ate all she made and I feel full and sick now.
  
 She is making the new ones for you just before you come and I am not allowed any.
  
*BTW Amine's amp looks absolutely fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
*He'll be ever so happy*
*Well done.*


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I don't have them, I've ate all she made and I feel full and sick now.


 
 Serves you right for eating all the cookies !!!!!!!
 I know how it is when L was making cookies for you and I ate 24 of them I wasn't feeling well.
  
 Thanks for the compliment on Amine's amp
 I am going to send him a E-mail with a picture of it later.
 Got to work on the self feeder for the dogs now to make sure the door is working properly before we leave.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn, my comments about Amine's amp were modest.
  
 I bet there's no better OTL amp out there even if it costs 4-5 times as much.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Glenn, my comments about Amine's amp were modest.
> 
> I bet there's no better OTL amp out there even if it costs 4-5 times as much.


 

 Yes you got is the best  plus more.
 The one you got is the ultimate tube rolling amp.
 And I will not make another one like it !!!!
  
 Who knows what I am building you next.


----------



## rosgr63

Not long to go now.
  
 Food and talk is all we'll be doing.
  
 I've been banned from Mamma's I am not allowed to go inside incase I eat the cookies she'll be making.
  
 Bella and Kira are standing by the door waiting.
 Somehow they know you are coming somebody told them.


----------



## magiccabbage

rosgr63 said:


> Glenn, my comments about Amine's amp were modest.
> 
> I bet there's no better OTL amp out there even if it costs 4-5 times as much.


 
 I have been meaning to ask you what headphones you use with the OTL?


----------



## rosgr63

I have two OTL's from Glenn and I can use any of my 18 headphones, depends the mood I am in.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > So Mama is my secret weapon with her cookies I like it.
> ...


 
 Destruction for sure! I hate to see a waist line ruined like that! Brutal!


----------



## 2359glenn

The last time I went to see Stavros I gained 4lbs in one week.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> The last time I went to see Stavros I gained 4lbs in one week.


 
 Listen to this album and you will loose 4lbs in a night, LOL. Probably need therapy though!


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> Destruction for sure! I hate to see a waist line ruined like that! Brutal!


 
  
  
 Waist line or trench line?


----------



## Ultrainferno

magiccabbage said:


> Listen to this album and you will loose 4lbs in a night, LOL. Probably need therapy though!


 
  
 I secretly dig a couple of the songs on that album


----------



## GrindingThud

2359glenn said:


> This is my latest build It is for somebody in Morocco
> It uses six 6BL7s for outputs or two or four 6AS7s or two 6336.
> It won't be finished until I get back from visiting Stavros.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Is the lucky owner active on the boards here?


----------



## 2359glenn

No he's not
 I think Stavros is going to tell him about head-fi


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> This is my latest build It is for somebody in Morocco
> It uses six 6BL7s for outputs or two or four 6AS7s or two 6336.
> It won't be finished until I get back from visiting Stavros.


 

 Nice. Is that a Lundahl transformer? Can this amp drive speakers?


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Nice. Is that a Lundahl transformer? Can this amp drive speakers?


 
  
 Can you bake cookies on it?


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Can you bake cookies on it?


 
  
 Easy-Bake Amp.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> No he's not
> I think Stavros is going to tell him about head-fi


 
  
  
 Actually he is a long time member of Head-Fi.
  
 He is a first class reviewer on the same level as pro reviewers.
  
 Foremost he is a very dear and long time good friend.


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Nice. Is that a Lundahl transformer? Can this amp drive speakers?


 
  
  


ultrainferno said:


> Can you bake cookies on it?


 

 No it is not a Lundahl this is a OTL  the Transformer is a Heybor and cannot drive speakers it can at low volume
  
 You can bake cookies if you put two 6336s in it.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Actually he is a long time member of Head-Fi.
> 
> He is a first class reviewer on the same level as pro reviewers.
> 
> Foremost he is a very dear and long time good friend.


 

 He did return my E-Mail I sent him yesterday and likes the amp.
 And said no problem waiting for me to get back from Athens to finish it up.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton, where have you been?
  
 You missed the cookie wars..................


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> Clayton, where have you been?
> 
> You missed the cookie wars..................


 
  
 What cookie war?
  
 I was busy baking a Dutch Appeltaart and cooking a traditional Italian-American dish called _*Sunday Sauce*_. Now I am fat. I think that I'm now heavier than Ultra-. He can now hide behind me.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

RK60s arrived!!!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i just opened them up, the paper itself is completely untampered too, i think i'm the first to open these, like totally NIB.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> i just opened them up, the paper itself is completely untampered too, i think i'm the first to open these, like totally NIB.


 
 looks great. You have tried them before yea?


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> i just opened them up, the paper itself is completely untampered too, i think i'm the first to open these, like totally NIB.


 

 Nice they should last you for the rest of your life I gave most of mine away.


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> i just opened them up, the paper itself is completely untampered too, i think i'm the first to open these, like totally NIB.


 
  






 Dubstep Girl has a contact working @ NASA... who knew?! Great find.


----------



## longbowbbs

They are saying "Take me to your leader"


----------



## Clayton SF

Score, DG. Great find! How much did each cost? They're the deal of the century--at the moment. Nice.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

clayton sf said:


> Score, DG. Great find! How much did each cost? They're the deal of the century--at the moment. Nice.


 
  
 10.50$ each
  
 i was gonna buy all 7 they had in stock but i only bought 5. 
  
 now i might put some up for sale soon, like 1-2 tubes, i have way too many rectifiers. 
  
 sounds a little different than the NIB "JAN general electronics rk60" i got as well. the raytheon seems slightly warmer perhaps. 
  
  
 btw......
  
 omg someone just put some for sale on ebay!!!
  
 these look like they have nicer boxes than mine. mine must of been like bulk or something
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Raytheon-1641-RK60-NOS-NIB-tube-/291019981820?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43c22483fc


----------



## Dubstep Girl

clayton sf said:


> Score, DG. Great find! How much did each cost? They're the deal of the century--at the moment. Nice.


 
  
 10.50$ each
  
 i was gonna buy all 7 they had in stock but i only bought 5. 
  
 now i might put some up for sale soon, like 1-2 tubes, i have way too many rectifiers. 
  
 sounds a little different than the NIB "JAN general electronics rk60" i got as well. the raytheon seems slightly warmer perhaps. 
  
  
 btw......
  
 omg someone just put some for sale on ebay!!!
  
 these look like they have nicer boxes than mine. but mine where in those cream colored boxes with the original packaging still intact and unopened.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Raytheon-1641-RK60-NOS-NIB-tube-/291019981820?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43c22483fc


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i got a really good price on them, this tube sounds very good. its tubey and musical, very well balanced. not the most detailed or most holographic or nuanced but it does everything very well balanced its hard to find any flaws in the tubes. 
  
 its no WE422A but it sounds very good on the glenn amp


----------



## longbowbbs

And most importantly, They look k00l!


----------



## Clayton SF

I think yours might be military-issued tubes. Packed in corrugated cardboard and wrapped in brown parchment or waxed paper. I like those. The boxes are also bigger than the ones on eBay.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

clayton sf said:


> I think yours might be military-issued tubes. Packed in corrugated cardboard and wrapped in brown parchment or waxed paper. I like those. The boxes are also bigger than the ones on eBay.


 
  
 yeah
  
 the ebay ones seem like normal consumer ones.
  
 anyways glad i got them 3 times cheaper than the ebay ones...
  
 interesting seeing them up for sale though, they won't last long, and price will keep rising as they are getting rarer, they might be 596 prices in a year or so.


----------



## Silent One

Glass on display-
  





 Next up for Dubstep Girl? A China Cabinet!


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> 10.50$ each
> 
> i was gonna buy all 7 they had in stock but i only bought 5.
> 
> ...


 
 but it says this at the bottom
  


> Note: Most of these items have been in storage over 10 years, sometimes longer and cannot be expected to perform as new unless thoroughly bench tested by a competent electronics tech. They may need tubes or other electronic parts replaced.
> I am retiring and will be living on Social security, so feel free to make an offer on any of my items listed.
> If you are automatically declined, you can email me thru ebay. I have many other audio & electronics items & parts, ask and I will be happy to list on ebay.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> 10.50$ each
> 
> i was gonna buy all 7 they had in stock but i only bought 5.
> 
> now i might put some up for sale soon, like 1-2 tubes, i have way too many rectifiers.




Save one for me.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just ordered 5, if the order went through.


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> I just ordered 5, if the order went through.


 
 leave some for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I cant top up my credit card till tomorrow


----------



## Ultrainferno

I got them someplace in Europe, don't worry


----------



## magiccabbage

nice


----------



## Ultrainferno

Stavros, congrats on Greece qualifying!


----------



## Silent One

Speaking of countries, I'm attending the 3-Day Los Angeles Grand Prix @ the Velo Sports Center this weekend!
  

USA
Mexico
Canada
France
Trinidad and Tobago
Chile
South Africa
Suriname
Venezuela
Slovakia
Columbia


----------



## Ultrainferno

Will you be following the Ghent competition as well?


----------



## Silent One

Will the weather be warm in 131 days?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Not here.


----------



## Silent One

I read earlier this year that race was shortened due to bad weather and snow...


----------



## Sko0byDoo

silent one said:


> Speaking of countries, I'm attending the 3-Day Los Angeles Grand Prix @ the Velo Sports Center this weekend!
> 
> 
> USA
> ...


 
  
 Not this weekend, gotta miss this one!  Hopefully, UCI World will come back to the Carson velodrome again soon.  Always exciting to see 40+ mph cycling.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Save one for me.


 
 sure!
  


ultrainferno said:


> I got them someplace in Europe, don't worry


----------



## longbowbbs

Ultra is Uber connected...


----------



## Silent One

sko0bydoo said:


> Not this weekend, gotta miss this one!  Hopefully, UCI World will come back to the Carson velodrome again soon.  Always exciting to see 40+ mph cycling.


 
  
 I'm at the track a time or two a week and see a lot the riders train. I'm saving up for new pedals so I can resume training on the boards myself. Two months ago I accidentally stripped my pedals during installation - went in crooked.


----------



## Clayton SF

UberUltra


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> UberUltra


 
 L, we have just re-named you....


----------



## Sko0byDoo

silent one said:


> I'm at the track a time or two a week and see a lot the riders train. I'm saving up for new pedals so I can resume training on the boards myself. Two months ago I accidentally stripped my pedals during installation - went in crooked.


 
  
 Ouch, hope it's nothing major to fix/heal.  I'm a roadie, but always enjoy watching track...


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> Stavros, congrats on Greece qualifying!


 
  
 Thanks Ultra
 Are we in the same group?
 I hope not!!!!!!!!
  
  


longbowbbs said:


> L, we have just re-named you....


 
  
 So is it Uber-Ultra-Heaven now?


----------



## Silent One

sko0bydoo said:


> Ouch, hope it's nothing major to fix/heal.  I'm a roadie, but always enjoy watching track...


 
  
 Nothing to fix - I ride the rental FELT TK2 bikes provided. Otherwise, I'd simply re-thread both the arms and pedals. So, I'm forced to get new pedals.


----------



## rosgr63

Is that an addiction SO or just fun?


----------



## Silent One

All three.


----------



## Silent One

Nu rack inside the listening room...


----------



## rosgr63

It looks very very nice, well done!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Thank you ever so kindly, sir. Now... if I can just find moar space.


----------



## koiloco

silent one said:


> Thank you ever so kindly, sir. Now... if I can just find moar space.


 
 I like your rack...(pun intended)


----------



## Ultrainferno

Very nice SO, but where's the Glenn Amps?
  
 Quote:


longbowbbs said:


> L, we have just re-named you....


 
  
 So I notice, oh my. I go to bed and this happens
  


rosgr63 said:


> Thanks Ultra
> Are we in the same group?
> I hope not!!!!!!!!


 
  
 I hope we are, easy win


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Very nice SO, but where's the Glenn Amps?


 

  
  
 Thanks, Ultra. But... that BIG spot lower-left doesn't look suspiciously vacant?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I wanna see your OTL on spikes on top. on top!


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> So I notice, oh my. I go to bed and this happens
> 
> 
> I hope we are, easy win


 
  
 We are in the group with the strong teams, are you?


----------



## Silent One

I should be going to storage Thursday/Friday to pull it out. It's been a very long time since I fired that bad boy up!


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> We are in the group with the strong teams, are you?


 
  
 Nope, cause we finished first in our group


----------



## rosgr63

silent one said:


> I should be going to storage Thursday/Friday to pull it out. It's been a very long time since I fired that bad boy up!


 
  
  
 It gets better all the time.


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> It gets better all the time.


 
  
 I'm already known for legendary warm-ups. But I'm gonna let her run... _and run into the next day_. More importantly, it will be my Senn HD280pro's seeing this duty, not trusting the '5998's'... yet.


----------



## longbowbbs

Lookin' good SO! I love the Mapleshade blocks....


----------



## Silent One

My Iso-blocks and Brass footers won't all fit.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> I'm already known for legendary warm-ups. But I'm gonna let her run... _and run into the next day_. More importantly, it will be my Senn HD280pro's seeing this duty, not trusting the '5998's'... yet.


 
 I have a pair of hd280's, they are perfect for that job. Those headphones can sure take a beating.


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn Amps are top-shelf amps and should always be given such!


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> I have a pair of hd280's, they are perfect for that job. Those headphones can sure take a beating.


 
  
 Our designer 2359glenn, along with Xcalibur255, in recent times shared with me their experiences with the '5998' tube(s) popping and taking out their headphones and nearly their hearing. I haven't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




been right since. The hours on the OTL saw a steep decline. I'm gonna get back in there a put a few hours on it with said tubes, see how long I stay brave. I have alternate tubes for the power slot but the '5998's' returned a better presentation for me in my setup.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Our designer 2359glenn, along with Xcalibur255, in recent times shared with me their experiences with the '5998' tube(s) popping and taking out their headphones and nearly their hearing. I haven't
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 most of that happens on start up right?


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> most of that happens on start up right?


 
 This is something I cannot confirm from my brief experience. I suspect "pinging" at start-up may be routine and that inadvertent pops might appear at any time during one's session if they're unlucky. 
  
 Hopefully, one of them can weigh-in and clarify.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> This is something I cannot confirm from my brief experience. I suspect "pinging" at start-up may be routine and that inadvertent pops might appear at any time during one's session if they're unlucky.
> 
> Hopefully, one of them can weigh-in and clarify.


 
 it happened to me before but fortunately i was not wearing the headphone. I had turned the amp off and then on without letting it warm up (this was when i was a greenhorn) and  ..... bang. The noise of it! even from where i was sitting. the headphone was not damaged either - hd650.


----------



## Ultrainferno

It happened to me too on startup with the 5998, but as it's an OTL I never leave my headphones connected. Imagine that happening during listening. auch!
 The pinging I consider to be normal, some tubes ping more than others


----------



## Silent One

You my friend, are indeed, lucky!


----------



## jc9394

Hong Kong tube store...


----------



## Clayton SF

It's raining here in SF.


----------



## Frank I

JC those  pictures are super. Look like you found the right Candy store for tubes.


----------



## longbowbbs

JC that is amazing!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow thats awesome.
  
 i see GEC U52 tube in that pic as well


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> wow thats awesome.
> 
> i see GEC U52 tube in that pic as well


 
  
 The one on the left is slightly better according to the owner.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

best is the brown base, mine has a beautiful marble brown base, and the tube looks absolutely mint with a flawless mwt label 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 its very close to WE422A, but different sounding.


----------



## jc9394

The Marconi is better than GEC according owner (Lorenz), the one on display is already spoken for.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> best is the brown base, mine has a beautiful marble brown base, and the tube looks absolutely mint with a flawless mwt label
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Eh you burning books in the fire?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lol we haven't used the fireplace in years, so its just a sort of desk for me. video games in a corner, then just papers, letters, folders, etc all over it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

silent one said:


> Our designer 2359glenn, along with Xcalibur255, in recent times shared with me their experiences with the '5998' tube(s) popping and taking out their headphones and nearly their hearing. I haven't
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 A, just wait 5 minutes before plugging in your phones and you'll be fine.  It occurs when the 5998s are coming on bias, so after the first minute you are in the clear.
  
 Peace out.


----------



## Clayton SF

dubstep girl said:


> best is the brown base, mine has a beautiful marble brown base, and the tube looks absolutely mint with a flawless mwt label
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That is one beautiful tube. I love tubes with decals and tariff stamps on them.


----------



## Frank I

I have tariff stamps in the 1942 Tung sol 6f8G I just got form Argentina. The 1942 boxes look like they were new. These are the best shape NOS I have gotten from that time period Cool having tubes used in e he Army's  radios during WW11.  I assume these were sold directly to that country in 1942 because the Tariff stamps are on he tubes base.


----------



## Ultrainferno

John, I think that's Wiwitubes, right? All my friends who went there were very impressed. great tubes but not the cheapest.
 What did you get yourself?
  
 Bring me back some wooden tube holders, 20 will do. I kid 
  
 enjoy!


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> John, I think that's Wiwitubes, right? All my friends who went there were very impressed. great tubes but not the cheapest.
> What did you get yourself?
> 
> Bring me back some wooden tube holders, 20 will do. I kid
> ...


 
  
 Yep, the setup is pretty impressive.  The tubes on display is only portions of the tubes he have in stock.  They are not the cheapest but it is the most impressive tubes store that I ever visited.  I got a pair of GEC 6080 and NU 6F8G, i think I got a bargain on the NU.


----------



## Oskari

jc9394 said:


> The Marconi is better than GEC according owner (Lorenz), the one on display is already spoken for.


 
  
 Let's all remember, though, that a particular brand, whether Marconi, Osram, MWT, GEC, Genalex or any other, won't make an M-O Valve product sound any different. Vintage or sample-to-sample variation _may_...


----------



## Ultrainferno

I am again fearing my dealer backed out on the RK60. What's up with them, that is twice in 2 weeks


----------



## rosgr63

xcalibur255 said:


> A, just wait 5 minutes before plugging in your phones and you'll be fine.  It occurs when the 5998s are coming on bias, so after the first minute you are in the clear.
> 
> Peace out.


 
  
 That's right.
  


oskari said:


> Let's all remember, though, that a particular brand, whether Marconi, Osram, MWT, GEC, Genalex or any other, won't make an M-O Valve product sound any different. Vintage or sample-to-sample variation _may_...


 
  
 Very true, I have 6AS7G's with the different MOV labels, the ones with similar construction sound similar.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I am again fearing my dealer backed out on the RK60. What's up with them, that is twice in 2 weeks


 

 He's probably monitoring our RK60 frenzy and is holding back until it turns to gold.


----------



## 2359glenn

Just think I've been giving them away.
Starting to run out now so I am keeping the ones I have.


----------



## Silent One

What's eerily similar about the USAF-596 & RK60 pursuits and speculation is the time periods... autumn!


----------



## john57

Investment "hoarders" struck again! Glenn is not making money on his idea. Nothing wrong with the 3DG4 tube either.


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> I am again fearing my dealer backed out on the RK60. What's up with them, that is twice in 2 weeks


 
 They are becoming the new 596 I fear....


----------



## john57

longbowbbs said:


> They are becoming the new 596 I fear....


 

_*'My Favorite Martian"*_ tube syndrome


----------



## longbowbbs

john57 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > They are becoming the new 596 I fear....
> ...


 
 Ha! Now we all need tinfoil hats...


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> It's raining here in SF.


 
  
 If the Bay would save us some rain, then tonight I'll dial-up some Ana Caram, Marta Gomez, Sarah Vaughan, Nancy Wilson, Busi Mhlongo and so on... _with candles. _


----------



## Neogeo333

Wow JC that store looks awesome. Is it in Mong Kok or Central? Gotta swing to HK in the near future. Used vacation in HK for 2 months every year before my parents sold the apartment in Jordan district.


----------



## jc9394

It is around Central. www.wiwitubes.com


----------



## Neogeo333

that explains the price on those tubes.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> It is around Central. www.wiwitubes.com


 
  
 And how is your K-Mok shopping coming along?


----------



## GrindingThud

I've also had box plate 7236 arc over on a warm restart. I keep the phones out for a couple minutes now to let stuff stabilize.

And that tube store....drooool!


----------



## Neogeo333

dont forget the A. Mui and L. Cheung.


----------



## rosgr63

grindingthud said:


> I've also had box plate 7236 arc over on a warm restart. I keep the phones out for a couple minutes now to let stuff stabilize.
> 
> And that tube store....drooool!


 
  
  
 I think it's a rectifier related problem.
 If the rectifier is in good condition and can control the start up current well it will not happen.
 This is my theory I could be wrong.
  
 Very nice tube store indeed.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I think it's a rectifier related problem.
> If the rectifier is in good condition and can control the start up current well it will not happen.
> This is my theory I could be wrong.
> 
> Very nice tube store indeed.


 

 What would help is a slow worm up rectifier and that would be a indirect heated rectifier.
 or slow worming up damper diodes. But this is still not slow enough most damper diodes
 worm up in 11 seconds it still brings up the B+ voltage slowly.


----------



## rosgr63

What would help is to get me a slow warm up pass through the kitchen.
 The cheese pies are done, the cookies are getting baked today!!!!!!!
  
 I am not allowed anywhere in the house now..........


----------



## Silent One

The aroma would be torture through a _cracked_ window...


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> What would help is to get me a slow warm up pass through the kitchen.
> The cheese pies are done, the cookies are getting baked today!!!!!!!
> 
> I am not allowed anywhere in the house now..........


 

 The cheese pies are calling my name I can here it all the way over here.
 Will be there in two days.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> And how is your K-Mok shopping coming along?


 
  
 yes, got few.


neogeo333 said:


> dont forget the A. Mui and L. Cheung.


 
  
 no, i have most of their's already.


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > And how is your K-Mok shopping coming along?
> ...


 
 Blue light special on 300B's?


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> What would help is to get me a slow warm up pass through the kitchen.
> The cheese pies are done, the cookies are getting baked today!!!!!!!
> 
> I am not allowed anywhere in the house now..........


 

 CHEESE PIES? Cheese pies? You've never told me about this.


----------



## longbowbbs

We have cheese pie's too! It is Wisconsin after all!
  
 http://www.eatwisconsincheese.com/recipes/article.aspx?rid=922


----------



## rosgr63

Can't reveal *ALL* my secrets Clayton................


----------



## jc9394

longbowbbs said:


> Blue light special on 300B's?


 
 No, the 300B are very expensive in HK.  Damn those super rich people...


----------



## Frank I

I guess you could not tget a deal on the Jaoanese Tak tubes then JC.  300B can be expensive.  Did you price them?


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> We have cheese pie's too! It is Wisconsin after all! http://www.eatwisconsincheese.com/recipes/article.aspx?rid=922


 
  
 Thanks! I was wondering what I was going to do with the leftovers from next week's Thanksgiving ham. Yep, it's ham this year. And a small bird.


----------



## longbowbbs

I think I am gaining weight thinking about next week.


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> I guess you could not tget a deal on the Jaoanese Tak tubes then JC.  300B can be expensive.  Did you price them?


 
 I found them and ordered it


----------



## dminches

300Bs make for excellent stocking stuffers, and this is coming from a jew!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> I found them and ordered it


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> I found them and ordered it


 
 what was the price in Japan


----------



## Frank I

dminches said:


> 300Bs make for excellent stocking stuffers, and this is coming from a jew!


 
 you can get them for Hanukah also David.


----------



## rosgr63

I managed to steal 4 cheese pies Glenn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 So far so good.................


----------



## Frank I

AH What kind of cheese o\pies Stavros


----------



## Neogeo333

Careful there Stavros, you might end up looking like those Mullard ecc32 or worst one of the Cossor fat bottle GZ37.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I managed to steal 4 cheese pies Glenn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> So far so good.................


 
 Does Mama know ? I am not worried she made a whole bunch of them


----------



## Clayton SF

I think it is this kind of pie, yes?


----------



## 2359glenn

Hi Clayton
  
 That is not it they are small almost mouth size and wonderful.
 I can eat a 100 of them but I won't 10 or 20 will have to do or Stavros will
 get mad at me.
 If there is any left at 6:00pm on Saturday when I get there.


----------



## Clayton SF

Maybe like this one? http://on.aol.com/video/how-to-make-traditional-greek-cheese-pie-517916126


----------



## longbowbbs

I just had lunch and now I am hungry again!


----------



## rosgr63

neogeo333 said:


> Careful there Stavros, you might end up looking like those Mullard ecc32 or worst one of the Cossor fat bottle GZ37.


 
  
 I passed  that stage George long time ago.
 Now I am more like the AVVT AV32B-SL
  
  


2359glenn said:


> Does Mama know ? I am not worried she made a whole bunch of them


 
  
 Of course not.
 I had to bribe Bella and Kira to sneak in.......
  


longbowbbs said:


> I just had lunch and now I am hungry again!


 
  
 I am ready for bed and I am still hungry, pitty I am banned to the outhouse, no sneaking in tonight!!!!!!
  
 Frank & Clayton, these are open top ones, made with a selection of cheeses.
  
 Tonight I'll be counting cheese pies not tubes to get to sleep.


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> I am ready for bed and I am still hungry, pitty I am banned to the outhouse, no sneaking in tonight!!!!!!
> Frank & Clayton, these are open top ones, made with a selection of cheeses.
> Tonight I'll be counting cheese pies not tubes to get to sleep.


 
  
 I'll just have to fly to Greece to see for myself.
 Glenn, make room in your suitcase.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> I'll just have to fly to Greece to see for myself.
> Glenn, make room in your suitcase.


 
  
 Stop here on your way back guys, ok? I'll make deserts and make sure the Belgian beer is cold


----------



## magiccabbage

I found these lovely tube t-shirts on amazon but of course they wont ship to Ireland.


----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> I'll just have to *fly to Greece* to see for myself.
> Glenn, make room in your suitcase.


 
  
  
 Promises, promises, promises.............................


----------



## Ultrainferno

magiccabbage said:


> I found these lovely tube t-shirts on amazon but of course they wont ship to Ireland.


 
  
 They have those on ebay too mate


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Stop here on your way back guys, ok? I'll make deserts and make sure the Belgian beer is cold


 
  
 Ooooooo. Desserts and beer at UberUltra's Belgian Bungalow. YES!
 Been there. Done that. And it was GOOD!


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> They have those on ebay too mate


 
 nice!


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> I found these lovely tube t-shirts on amazon but of course they wont ship to Ireland.


 
 I have this one....Fun shirt!


----------



## GrindingThud

My absolute favorite!


clayton sf said:


> CHEESE PIES? Cheese pies? You've never told me about this.


----------



## Silent One

_It's over._
  
 The act of rummaging through 99 boxes in storage looking for audio related pieces is over. Everything is now accounted for save two items. And I finally got reunited with the 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk._
  
 What's missing now is the amp's power cord - Wireworld Electra 5* - along with another Wireworld power cord. I'm thinking of all the fine tea I could have bought 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




with that money. Gonna stay up late and give it a real hard search. Last thing I want to happen is go down the street to Home Depot and get one, only to return home and suddenly remember.
  
 Will un-box the little one tomorrow and see where things go...


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> _It's over._
> 
> The act of rummaging through 99 boxes in storage looking for audio related pieces is over. Everything is now accounted for save two items. And I finally got reunited with the 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk._
> 
> ...


 
 keep us posted


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn & L will start their journey this afternoon.
  
 Bon Voyage!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Bon Voyage!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Have a safe trip and enjoy your time here!


----------



## Neogeo333

Hope you have a great time there. Be safe and enjoy the trip.


----------



## longbowbbs

Safe journey!


----------



## Clayton SF

Have a save journey. Remember, limit our intake on cheese pies to 5 a day--since each one is only bite-size. Stavros--watch him carefully!


----------



## jc9394

Have fun


----------



## 2359glenn

Thanks All
 Getting ready to leave work to go to the airport
 The cheese pies are waiting
 Have a nice thanksgiving
       Glenn


----------



## jc9394

take some pic of the cheese pie


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> take some pic of the cheese pie


 
 That will have to be the first thing to do
 or they will be all gone with Me and Stavros eating them


----------



## dminches

Safe travels Glenn.  See you on line from Athens!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Just skip the cheese platter on your flight to Athens. When ever I fly KLM to Amsterdam they always serve fruits and lots of good Dutch cheeses with the main courses. And great desserts, too!


----------



## rosgr63

I wonder how safe are the air stewardesses..................
 Just as well L is keeping an eye.
  
 David did you get my request?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Could anyone recommend me some listening chairs please?


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> Could anyone recommend me some listening chairs please?


 
 +1


----------



## rosgr63

Top is mine, bottom is Glenn's


----------



## Silent One




----------



## longbowbbs

ROFL!!


----------



## rosgr63

Eric this is the chair you recommended to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

*THANKS DAVID!*
  
 You made my day


----------



## dminches

And mine too!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Not mine. I need a chair


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> Not mine. I need a chair


 
 You could borrow Stavors' chair...Kinda cute....


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'll ask somewhere else I guess


----------



## wotts

ultrainferno said:


> I'll ask somewhere else I guess


 
  
 I like the Ikea Poäng chair.
  
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S19903928/


----------



## longbowbbs

Man... Try and be helpful.....


----------



## GalaxyGuy

wotts said:


> I like the Ikea Poäng chair.
> 
> http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S19903928/


 
 That's the chair that I use as well, and I like it quite a bit.  Used to use it to rock the baby to sleep, but now that he's a bit older the chair has been repurposed for my listening area.


----------



## longbowbbs

I actually use a nice leather sofa....If I get too relaxed I can just take a nap!


----------



## Silent One

Status Report.:
  
 Found: 1 of 2 missing Wireworld power cords for the 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk._
  
 Missing:  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 1. Remaining Wireworld power cord
 2. 1957 USAF-596 rectifier
 3. Pair of Mid-1940s TS-Black Glass Round Plates
  
  
 Should have the amp wired next hour...
  
  
  
 : :   2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk_ - Redux!   : :
  
 
  
 Forgot to bring the HD650 home with me. Will listen Saturday evening.


----------



## longbowbbs

With all the conversation about the HE-6 need for power, how does it perform with Silver Hawk?


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> With all the conversation about the HE-6 need for power, how does it perform with Silver Hawk?


 
  
 I'm retrieving the HD650 this evening. But just for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I leashed up the HE-6 last hour. There were no surprises. Last year, I had the HE-6 on loan and made this effort. The amp still renders wonderful detail but does not adequately drive the cans. The presentation sounds thin and restricted from very low to normal listening levels. Some recordings escape better than others but... notes are not always arriving full-bodied; developed, before their decay.
  
 To be fair, the amp simply requires more efficient cans. Both the HE-6 and OTL are great dancers only in need of the right partners.


----------



## longbowbbs

I would like to hear a pair of HE-6's one day. I doubt I will ever want a pair. Loving the HD800's way too much.
  
 Thanks for the impressions! I appreciate your perspective.


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> I would like to hear a pair of HE-6's one day. I doubt I will ever want a pair. Loving the HD800's way too much.
> 
> Thanks for the impressions! I appreciate your perspective.


 
  





 Ah..._ a love affair._.. we be so happy for you! May you stay the course. Just returned home with the HD650, so tonight and Sunday I can give the OTL a proper listen. If that ain't enough, I just took delivery of a parcel post from Hong Kong. A quick look inside reveals...
  
 ...it's "K-Mok!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Karen Mok - "The Age of Moknificence" which is a 20th anniversary celebration for her in music. Though, she's an actress as well. This 3-CD + DVD set will give the OTL something to work with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The next 36 hours you may wanna poke me; make sure I've had something to eat.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to hear a pair of HE-6's one day. I doubt I will ever want a pair. Loving the HD800's way too much.
> ...


 
 We'll leave you to your rapture...


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> I'm retrieving the HD650 this evening. But just for you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I wanted to ask you if you have heard LCD headphones through your OTL?


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> I wanted to ask you if you have heard LCD headphones through your OTL?


 
  
 Not yet. I had LCD-2s on loan for a couple of months but returned them prior to receiving the OTL.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn and L arrived safely.


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Glenn and L arrived safely.


 
 Thanks for the update!


----------



## Silent One

_Easy as 1-2-3... _plugged in the HD650 and found a free bedside rig!
  
 But that's not all I found. On the other side of the bed, _temptation_ was at once hiding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




and whispering _"Pssst... upgrade the cable!"_


----------



## Ultrainferno

My new amp uses a 6C5 input tube but I'm not that familiar with it. what are some good 6C5 tubes and what are the better replacements for these?
  
 Thanks my tube friends


----------



## 2359glenn

Hi All
  
 I made it and am on Stavros computer right now
 Have to go upstairs now or I will be in trouble


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> Hi All
> 
> I made it and am on Stavros computer right now
> Have to go upstairs now or I will be in trouble


 
 You type well considering all the crumbs on the keyboard...


----------



## kazsud

silent one said:


> Ah..._ a love affair._.. we be so happy for you! May you stay the course. Just returned home with the HD650, so tonight and Sunday I can give the OTL a proper listen. If that ain't enough, I just took delivery of a parcel post from Hong Kong. A quick look inside reveals...
> 
> ...it's "K-Mok!"
> 
> ...


 
 lmao


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> You type well considering all the crumbs on the keyboard...


 
  
 Keyboard? Keyboard? I think it should now be called a Cheeseboard. Like in Cheese Pie...


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > You type well considering all the crumbs on the keyboard...
> ...


 
 I'll take a cube of cheddar please!


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> I'll take a cube of cheddar please!


 

 I love cheddar cheese. Sharp or mild you can't go wrong.
 I also like Gouda.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I'll take a cube of cheddar please!
> ...


 
 I have clients in Colby, Wisconsin..


----------



## Frank I

Provolone in my house coming out of the woodwork for Thanksgiving. Cabot white cheddar form Veromoint not to shabby either. Auricchio USA  is made in Wisconsin and I have some really good imported as well.


----------



## Clayton SF

I actually like cheese in a can. http://www.thekitchn.com/cheese-in-a-can-cougar-gold-ch-154942
 I'm partial to it because my nieces went to Washington State University.
 Stop laughing.


----------



## Frank I

clayton sf said:


> I actually like cheese in a can. http://www.thekitchn.com/cheese-in-a-can-cougar-gold-ch-154942
> I'm partial to it because my nieces went to Washington State University.
> Stop laughing.


 
 LOL I have tried to get the Cornell cheddar because met daughter is Cornell n I am assuming that Washington state also has an agricultural itinerary as well. Does it taste good Clayton?


----------



## Clayton SF

frank i said:


> LOL I have tried to get the Cornell cheddar because met daughter is Cornell n I am assuming that Washington state also has an agricultural itinerary as well. Does it taste good Clayton?


 
  
 It is excellent. I actually had it at a wedding reception and thought it was very delicious. Then the groom said, "It's from a can!" Now that I couldn't believe. Since then, my sister has been sending me a few cans when she visits WSU. Come to think of it, she was there last week but she has not mentioned anything about sending me a can of cheese. I better contact her.


----------



## magiccabbage

I love wensleydale and white Stilton cheese.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ah. Stilton on steak or burgers is incredible!


----------



## longbowbbs

mmmmm....White Stilton!


----------



## Ultrainferno

oh my


----------



## Ultrainferno

If someone still wants NOS boxed C3Gs: http://www.ebay.com/itm/291024266068?


----------



## Silent One

Ultra, your source got any Siemens F2a power tubes or an angle on some?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Only one F2A11 I'm afraid


----------



## Ultrainferno

yay, my RK60 guy came through. I'll probably sell a pair on ebay, I don't really need 5


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> yay, my RK60 guy came through. I'll probably sell a pair on ebay, I don't really need 5


 
 I wouldn't mind one


----------



## magiccabbage

Hi guys. This is Clayton's OTL i think, just wondering what the lovely tube is at the back left?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'd say a Svetlana 5U8C
  
 http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Russian/5U8C.htm


----------



## Ultrainferno

Have you guys seen this 596 auction?
  
 www.ebay.com/itm/221319854196


----------



## longbowbbs

Amazing what has happened to that tube in a little over a year....


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> Amazing what has happened to that tube in a little over a year....


 
  
 There must be a huge cache 596s somewhere, but where? It don't think very many are in circulation at the moment. I mean, compared to the WE300B tubes which seem a-pleanty, albeit at an exorbitant price.


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn and Stavros: How ye be?
 Think of you both while contemplating making a grilled cheese cake...


----------



## Frank I

clayton sf said:


> There must be a huge cache 596s somewhere, but where? It don't think very many are in circulation at the moment. I mean, compared to the WE300B tubes which seem a-pleanty, albeit at an exorbitant price.


 
 wish I knew where they are located. The one on ebay a Jan but there is only one for backup however then your amp needs tow its nice try try for a match pair but not sure if you can even find match pairs anywhere. i been looking for another pair.


----------



## Silent One

I've previously expressed knowing where to get my Gaiwan holding hands on _The Mighty 596._ Lots of 'em. But after 2 years of public posts, even obscure dealers are learning about the new demand for its audio applications. And any phone call or email inquiry will likely end with a "Gotcha!"
  
 Still... there are a few dealers who may discover a few buried in long forgotten stock. And not looking to put any of us over a barrel of discarded tubes.


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Have you guys seen this 596 auction?
> 
> www.ebay.com/itm/221319854196


 
  
 Typo... shouldn't it read $167.50  $67.50? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Also, on the Siemens glass, would you kindly ask your source if they know where to source a pair? I do but likely at a _premium._


----------



## Frank I

I don't think SO its a typo someone bid it way up. Best time to bod on these items is when there is less than 30 seconds in the auction/. This is going to sell for a new high price now. I havenot bid on this single. There are two guys fighting this out with automatic bids. LOL  Bad for anything else that come on now as well.


----------



## longbowbbs

SO and team...The bid is over $175 now!!!
  
 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221319854196&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlinken


----------



## jc9394

Dang, I'm going to sell mines very soon so I can get a Nikon lens.


----------



## Silent One

And to think... I'm still missing one here in the room! 
  
  
 Update.: Tomorrow I'll put together a bid for a 20-count (NOS) and see what returns. And even compare it to a 50ct, which should a few tea bowls cheaper.


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> SO and team...The bid is over $175 now!!!
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221319854196&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlinken


 
  
 Hang on to yours. Retirement fund!
  
 Does anyone know how much the WE300B cost in 1950? 1980s? Just curious. I've always wondered.


----------



## john57

The fun with EBay is the last five seconds of the bidding.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Dang, I'm going to sell mines very soon so I can get a Nikon lens.


 

 Dang it, I'm going to sell all of mine soon so that I can fly First Class to visit Ultra-. Then jet off with Ultra- to see Stavros.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Hahaha, good idea, it's almost at 180 now for one tube!!


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Dang, I'm going to sell mines very soon so I can get a Nikon lens.


 
  
 Here's what's going to happen to my missing USAF-596. I'll move out only for the maid to find it shortly thereafter. Shrug at the thought of my leaving an old light-bulb behind........ and into the trash it goes!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Here's what's going to happen to my missing USAF-596. I'll move out only for the maid to find it shortly thereafter. Shrug at the thought of my leaving an old light-bulb behind........ and into the trash it goes!


 
 I will come over to clean your house anytime...


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Dang it, I'm going to sell all of mine soon so that I can fly First Class to visit Ultra-. Then jet off with Ultra- to see Stavros.


 
  
 Not sure about flying first class to EU but certainly gets you a free ticket for sure.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I will come over to clean your house anytime...


 
 Yeah, the TG-BGRPs are missing along with it.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Yeah, the TG-BGRPs are missing along with it.


 
  
 That sucks...


----------



## Silent One

That they're together will make it slightly easier to find. Wasn't enough room in three tube boxes...


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Not sure about flying first class to EU but certainly gets you a free ticket for sure.


 
  
 You don't know how many 596s I own, now do you, Right Ultra-?
 EDIT: Never mind. I forgot I gifted some.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> You don't know how many 596s I own, now do you, Right Ultra-?
> EDIT: Never mind. I forgot I gifted some.


 
  
 But you're a nice guy 
  
 It sold for just under 200$. Clayton, I'm selling yours! I kid


----------



## jc9394

Can I get $250 each for two matched pair?  Crap, still another $1k short I guess I will keep it until it is $500 each...


----------



## Ultrainferno

If I do find another batch I will sell all hundred of them at 200$


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> If I do find another batch I will sell all hundred of them at 200$


 
  
 You should.  Drive the price up so no one will profit from it again.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lol i was just about to mention the 596 auction but i guess u guys saw it earlier

198$ for the tube...ridiculous. prices have really gona up.


----------



## Ultrainferno

And with the $20K I'll pay for C's first Class ticket to my wedding. Now that's a plan! (if only I could find 100 tubes...)


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> t sold for just under 200$. Clayton, I'm selling yours! I kid


 
  
 Ultra-. It's yours--you can sell it if you want. Just as long as the profits are used for tickets to SF (maybe not First Class).


----------



## longbowbbs

They need to rename the tube the AU596.....


----------



## magiccabbage

this is a nice little video


----------



## Ultrainferno

Alright guys, I found a batch of 28 NOS 1641 tubes, 7 GE + 18 NAT + 3 RAY. Price however is 30*€* a piece (+ shipping to you) but I can get them quick.
 I just ordered 5 elsewhere, so I won't be needing any myself. Is anyone interested?


----------



## 2359glenn

David
  
 I had to go to Greece to get some good pizza this is a dame shame as I come from the NYC airier.
 Better then anything I could get in NC.
  
 ..


----------



## dminches

Glenn, that will tie you over until we get some real pizza shipped to you in NC!


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn, I'm still trying to figure out how to ship my homemade Dutch Appeltaart to you. Ultra-, when you figure that out, you get one too (three four)... And if it can make it to Belgium then it can certainly make it to Greece.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Come over and make it here yourself, that's the correct solution C.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Come over and make it here yourself, that's the correct solution C.


 
  
 Now why didn't I think of that? How are the apples in your neck of the woods? Great, I bet.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Now why didn't I think of that? How are the apples in your neck of the woods? Great, I bet.


 
  
 Down the street you can go get them yourself straight from the tree


----------



## GalaxyGuy

ultrainferno said:


> Alright guys, I found a batch of 28 NOS 1641 tubes, 7 GE + 18 NAT + 3 RAY. Price however is 30*€* a piece (+ shipping to you) but I can get them quick.
> I just ordered 5 elsewhere, so I won't be needing any myself. Is anyone interested?


 
 I think I'd be interested in a couple of them.  It's always fun to try new rectifiers.


----------



## buson160man

kazsud said:


> Has Glenn made any pre-amps before?
> Instead of looking for a pre-amp/headphone amp combo I think I should get a separate pre-amp for my emotiva pro 6s.


 
  I came across your post. Hello it has been a bit since we last posted each other. So you are considering a separate  preamp for your airmotiv 6s I definitely suggest if you do go that route you definitely must get a preamp with balanced outputs. I do not know if you have heard your sixes through the balanced inputs. I can attest the differences between single ended drive and balanced drive are very apparent. I have been listening to my airmotiv 5s for awhile driven through their balanced inputs and they sound much better when driven in balanced fashion. The dynamics are definitely much better with balanced drive. I think pretty much everything is improved over single ended drive. If you can borrow a preamp or preamp/dac with balanced outputs you should try it.
    The differences are pretty pronounced. You really have not heard your sixes until you have used them with the balanced inputs. I think you will be surprised at the amount of improvement that balanced drive brings to the game,. Believe me it is going to be tough going back to single ended drive once you have heard the emotivas through their balanced inputs.
   But getting back to my original point try and borrow a preamp with balanced outputs and some balanced cables. Try your airmotiv sixes in balanced fashion. I think you are going to love what you hear from them. Believe me it is going to tough going back to single ended drive once you have heard balanced drive. Drop me a post.


----------



## longbowbbs

buson160man said:


> kazsud said:
> 
> 
> > Has Glenn made any pre-amps before?
> ...


 
 This would be a great PM.....


----------



## Clayton SF

Yes, my Glenn Amp OTL is also a preamp.


----------



## Wapiti

longbowbbs said:


> This would be a great PM.....


 

 As would roughly 80% of the posts in this thread. <shrug>


----------



## longbowbbs

He didn't even offer to bake.....


----------



## Silent One

"Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!"


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Thanksgiving from Greece


----------



## Wapiti

Happy Thanksgivukkah


----------



## Clayton SF

Happy Thursday!


----------



## jc9394

Happy Turkey day.


----------



## slim.a

2359glenn said:


> This is my latest build It is for somebody in Morocco
> 
> 
> It uses six 6BL7s for outputs or two or four 6AS7s or two 6336.
> ...






 


The amplifier looks fantastic! I am very thankful to Glenn for accepting to build me such an amplifier. 


 


Also, many thanks to Stavros who has been pointing me to some very interesting 6SN7 tubes while waiting for the amp to be finished. So far, I have ordered a Sylvania 6SNGT VT231 and a Sylvania 6SN7W. I wonder how bad the tube addiction will be when I actually get the amp


----------



## slim.a

2359glenn said:


> Happy Thanksgiving from Greece


 
 Happy thanksgiving to you, Stavros and all the tube addicts !


----------



## rosgr63

*HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## Frank I

Happy Thanksgiving Stavros and Glenn.  Hope Glenn cooked you an American Thaksgiving dinner


----------



## Dubstep Girl

happy thanksgiving!


----------



## Frank I

Happy thanksgiving little girl. Hpw was you day DG? Did you have dinner yet? I am on break the family in the other room with my wife reading the Polar Express to my niece and daughters and inlaws.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Thanks! 
  
 its been a pretty relaxfull day so far, just getting over a cold. i just finished eating dinner with my family
  
 no black friday shopping for me this year


----------



## Frank I

LOL Moon got some midnight deals forms hat i been seeing.


----------



## Clayton SF

I just finished baking a Dutch Apple Pie. Next is the spiral cut ham and then the chestnut stuffing and then and then and then. I am listening to The Foals and cooking up a small storm. After all this it will be instant coma.


----------



## koiloco

Still early here in CA...Please eat chicken and save a Turkey this thxgiving 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Happy thx giving to all.  I am just chilling and listening to Keiko Matsui's Soul Quest album.


----------



## Frank I

great album. She is a major talent


----------



## koiloco

frank i said:


> great album. She is a major talent


 
 Yup.  Her often natural syncopation when she plays each note every slightly off beat is what I enjoy the most when it comes to smooth jazz pianist.


----------



## Frank I

clayton sf said:


> I just finished baking a Dutch Apple Pie. Next is the spiral cut ham and then the chestnut stuffing and then and then and then. I am listening to The Foals and cooking up a small storm. After all this it will be instant coma.


 
 Any leftovers Clayton?   Did you use fresh apples?


----------



## rosgr63

Tube War in progress!!!!!!!!!
  
 Guess who is winning????????
  
 My American tubes of course.................


----------



## 2359glenn

Listening to the K701 driven by six 6BL7s and a Kern-Rad 1633 driver
 this combo sound'e fantastic


----------



## Skylab

Stavros did you try those 6BL7's you got from me? Curious how they sounded.


----------



## magiccabbage

you guys gonna take pics of the battle. We need visuals.


----------



## Clayton SF

frank i said:


> Any leftovers Clayton?   Did you use fresh apples?


 
  
 Yes. Leftovers for sure. They still have fresh apple here in SF. But for how long I know not.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hello. I am now using my Glenn Amps Mono Blocks with the Zana Deux SE as a preamp. Excellent sounding for the day after Thanksgiving. It's been on for 1/2 an hour so I'll know more about the sound signature at the end of the day--10 hours later.
  
 Thanks again, Glenn.


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> Hello. I am now using my Glenn Amps Mono Blocks with the Zana Deux SE as a preamp. Excellent sounding for the day after Thanksgiving. It's been on for 1/2 an hour so I'll know more about the sound signature at the end of the day--10 hours later.
> 
> Thanks again, Glenn.


 
 looks great! the zana would be a great option for pr-amp, its supposed to be very fast and detailed. i look forward to impressions.


----------



## Silent One

koiloco said:


> frank i said:
> 
> 
> > great album. She is a major talent
> ...


 
  
 +1
  
 I have some of her early work on vinyl from Yamaha R&D Studios as the 19 year old prodigy from Japan (Keiko Doi).


----------



## magiccabbage

I must have a listen, Keiko Matsui' you say.


----------



## Silent One

_Very relaxing..._


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> _Very relaxing..._


 
 sounds like it might be a good option for my new hd800's with woo


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> They still have fresh apple here in SF. But for how long I know not.


 
 Highly recommended: http://www.philoapplefarm.com/
 80+ varieties of heirloom apples!
 Stay in the cottages, eat at the Booneville Hotel....


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have stored all my amps and headphones an have only been using the Cypherlabs Theorem and the LCD2.
i'm in shock myself. No idea why i just bought the Neko Audio MK2 DAC


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks to Mihis, I am listening to Anna Ternheim - The Night Visitor LP on my GlennZanaAmp Combo--It is incredible. Her vocals are so engaging. Glenn's amp is surely true to acoustic music (among others).
  
 This is Walking Aimlessly.


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> I have stored all my amps and headphones an have only been using the Cypherlabs Theorem and the LCD2.
> i'm in shock myself. No idea why i just bought the Neko Audio MK2 DAC


 





.... for a speaker rig? 
  
 Edit
  
 I thought it was a different DAC, my bad


----------



## Clayton SF

Yes. Speaker rigs! I am slowly abandoning my headphone gear and opting for the non-tethered listening experience of speakers. Just think if I had to use different speakers every time I changed tubes or amps. I love my Zu Audio Omens. They go with every speaker amp I own. By the way, just in case you're interested. http://www.zuaudio.com/sales/sale-omen-peachtree-mission


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> Yes. Speaker rigs! I am slowly abandoning my headphone gear and opting for the non-tethered listening experience of speakers. Just think if I had to use different speakers every time I changed tubes or amps. I love my Zu Audio Omens. They go with every speaker amp I own. By the way, just in case you're interested. http://www.zuaudio.com/sales/sale-omen-peachtree-mission


 
 very nice. i have looked at your speakers before in pics. 97db - nice and sensitive. I will go the speaker route myself eventually but i live with others at the moment and it would not be fair on them if i was pumping music all the time.  How do they compare to the Klipsch rf-7 do you know?


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> very nice. i have looked at your speakers before in pics. 97db - nice and sensitive. I will go the speaker route myself eventually but i live with others at the moment and it would not be fair on them if i was pumping music all the time.  How do they compare to the Klipsch rf-7 do you know?


 

 That's why I'm not completely there yet. There are times that I need to listen to music with headphones. Yesterday I heard sounds that I hadn't heard while listening through my speakers. Like background sounds thrown way to the left or right ear. It was a song by Grizzly Bear off their Shields LP. The song is _*Gun-Shy*_. An incredible piece to listen to on headphones.


----------



## Frank I

silent one said:


> +1
> 
> I have some of her early work on vinyl from Yamaha R&D Studios as the 19 year old prodigy from Japan (Keiko Doi).


 
 Miss the vinyl days. I have like three albums bu none of the ear lie tones and this new release is excellent


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Highly recommended: http://www.philoapplefarm.com/
> 80+ varieties of heirloom apples!
> Stay in the cottages, eat at the Booneville Hotel....


 

 Thanks! I always need great suggestions for a food retreat!


----------



## Frank I

Clayton had a good apple pie today form the local bakery but not homemade. My wife made an awesome PumpkinPie though.


----------



## Clayton SF

frank i said:


> Clayton had a good apple pie today form the local bakery but not homemade. My wife made an awesome PumpkinPie though.


 

 Now any dessert made by a loved one is the whipped cream of the crop.


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> That's why I'm not completely there yet. There are times that I need to listen to music with headphones. Yesterday I heard sounds that I hadn't heard while listening through my speakers. Like background sounds thrown way to the left or right ear. It was a song by Grizzly Bear off their Shields LP. The song is _*Gun-Shy*_. An incredible piece to listen to on headphones.


 
 thanks i will check out that song now.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Thanks! I always need great suggestions for a food retreat!


 
 Special place.
 The family started French Laundry - sold it to Keller - and bought the farm & opened a cooking school.
 Now the next generations runs the farm and the son orchestrates an amazing prix fixe at the local hotel: http://www.boonvillehotel.com/menu.php
 Let's just say breakfast in the main house is french press coffee, fresh biscuits with their jams, their apple cider and their homemade yogurt/granola (they used to have a cow but now just get fresh milk from the neighbor to make yogurt)...
 It's not cheese pie, but it is still worth a trip or three!


----------



## Silent One

Go Bears!
  
 I really admire what Keller and long-time girlfriend Laura Cunningham accomplished with both the French Laundry and Per Se. When I get my next job, I'm going to dine at the former.


----------



## Silent One

frank i said:


> Clayton had a good apple pie today form the local bakery but not homemade. My wife made an awesome PumpkinPie though.


 
  
 Mason-Dixon Line-
  
  






 I bet her pie was awesome! And while Pumpkin Pie certainly has its followers (devotees?), in my family the tradition has always been and will always be Sweet Potato Pie! Uh-oh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 food fight!!!
  




  
 Frank, I kid I kid...


----------



## magiccabbage

im wondering what people think are the quietest 6sn7's for the the Glenn OTL?


----------



## Frank I

LOL SO have not had that sweet potato pie in a long while. My favorite though is blueberry. She will make those in July when the blueberries are picked in Hammonton NJ the Blueberry capitol of thew world and 20 minutes form me,


----------



## Silent One

In my inventory I'd say the least quietest glass is Ken Rad, but all others are quiet: TS-BGRP; Brimar; Raytheon; RCA _Smokies_; GE; FIVRE ect...


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> In my inventory I'd say the least quietest glass is Ken Rad, but all others are quiet: TS-BGRP; Brimar; Raytheon; RCA _Smokies_; GE; FIVRE ect...


 
 thanks for the info, i need to start collecting some.


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Go Bears!
> 
> I really admire what Keller and long-time girlfriend Laura Cunningham accomplished with both the French Laundry and Per Se. When I get my next job, I'm going to dine at the former.


 
 My girl and my pooch at our cottage (outdoor shower + clawfoot tub) at the Apple Farm...

 Worth the trip from LA!


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *magiccabbage* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> thanks for the info, i need to start collecting some.


 
  
 6SN7 Glass? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 rosgr63 is your guy!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> My girl and my pooch at our cottage (outdoor shower + clawfoot tub) at the Apple Farm...
> 
> Worth the trip from LA!


 
  
 Fantastique!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Special place.
> The family started French Laundry - sold it to Keller - and bought the farm & opened a cooking school.
> Now the next generations runs the farm and the son orchestrates an amazing prix fixe at the local hotel: http://www.boonvillehotel.com/menu.php
> Let's just say breakfast in the main house is french press coffee, fresh biscuits with their jams, their apple cider and their homemade yogurt/granola (they used to have a cow but now just get fresh milk from the neighbor to make yogurt)...
> It's not cheese pie, but it is still worth a trip or three!


 
  
 That looks great. Perhaps I can take Ultra- and his gf there next year. If he comes.
  
 I used to work for Chalk Hill Winery back from 1980-1999. Of course it started off as the Dona Maria Vineyards in Healdsburg but Fred Furth, a prominent attorney (my boss) bought it and changed the name to Chalk Hill Winery. I used to love driving up there to fix their computers. We'd have lunch in their test kitchens and then get to take home free cases of wine that they would have normally thrown out because they had to do that after wine tasting was over for the day. Such fun. They also sold wines to The French Laundry and would try to bump me up the reservation list. Never happened.
  
 But now I am seriously thinking about visiting The Boonville Hotel, specifically to dine at Table 128. Thank you so much for suggesting this place.
  
 There's no place like another home. There's no place like another home. And it is not far from my home!


----------



## Ultrainferno

magiccabbage said:


> .... for a speaker rig?
> 
> Edit
> 
> I thought it was a different DAC, my bad


 
  
 I'm just bored of changing gear and listening to different amps lately, moving them all around.
 So for now it is just me and my Theorem/LCD2 combo and my Cosmic Ears ciems


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> That looks great. Perhaps I can take Ultra- and his gf there next year. If he comes.


 
 It's a special place, both the farm and the hotel...
 That's Cruz making our biscuits for breakfast in the main house! She also makes all their jams and preserves for re-sale.
 Their fruit stand is 'honer system'. You write down what you take and leave cash in a slot in the table!

 I'm in SF too. We go up 3-4 times a year. It is still undiscovered. I much prefer it to Napa, Sonoma or Mendocino!
 We always stop by Roederer, Toulouse and Esterlina wineries (and Anderson Valley Brewery) as well...


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> That looks great. Perhaps I can take Ultra- and his gf there next year. If he comes.


 
  
 We're looking at tickets for March!


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn and L are on their way back, I wish them a safe trip back home!
  
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


skylab said:


> Stavros did you try those 6BL7's you got from me? Curious how they sounded.


 
  
  
 Hi Rob, I have been using the 6BL7's Glenn gave me with the amp which are 3 pairs of RCA.
 He gave me a few more but I haven't tried any yet.
 Your nice tubes are safely put away for future use.
  
 We tried 4 pairs of headphones:
  
 Denon AH-D5000 (Markl mod, re cabled, JMoney pads)
 Ultrasone HFI-780 APS V2 XLR (with XLR to SE adapter)
 Grado SR325is
 AKG 701 Headroom XLR (with XLR to SE adapter)


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> We tried 4 pairs of headphones:
> 
> Denon AH-D5000 (Markl mod, re cabled, JMoney pads)
> Ultrasone HFI-780 APS V2 XLR (with XLR to SE adapter)
> ...


 
 Hi, 
 I have been communicating with Glenn regarding an amp to drive my vintage Grados.
 Do you have a favorite Glenn amp for Grados? 
 Thanks!


----------



## Silent One

Very excited this evening!
  
 Earlier this afternoon, I ordered the newly remastered 24-bit/192kHz version of "Kind Of Blue" from HDTracks. Previously held this work of art on CD but held off on any hi-rez version for the longest - glad I did!!!
  
 Can't wait! But 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll have to... no choice. I bought three other digital albums and between the four downloading, this could take awhile. I started downloading at 1400 hrs - it's now 19:40 and the first of four is only 90 something percent complete. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gonna be a long night.
  
 I ordered:
  




 AIFF 24/192
  
  




 AIFF 24/176
  
  




 AIFF 24/192
  
  




 AIFF 24/192
  
  
 Looks like I'll start a short session @ 0200 hrs but formally listen to all four albums Sunday night.


----------



## magiccabbage

fav track from kind of blue? mine is - "all blues"  - i love the break at - 1.45, so nice.


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> Hi,
> I have been communicating with Glenn regarding an amp to drive my vintage Grados.
> Do you have a favorite Glenn amp for Grados?
> Thanks!


 
  
 Hi, I haven't tried my RS1 or GS1000 yet.
 Both OTL's drive the SR325is very well, nice bass, you wouldn't go wrong with either.
 I feel the 6336A's will be even better, we tried them last summer with Glenn briefly, and the Grados sounded very good.
  


silent one said:


> Very excited this evening!
> 
> Earlier this afternoon, I ordered the newly remastered 24-bit/192kHz version of "Kind Of Blue" from HDTracks. Previously held this work of art on CD but held off on any hi-rez version for the longest - glad I did!!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very nice SO, well done!


----------



## Silent One

'Miles'... "Kind Of Blue" @ 24/192...... HUGE sound! I had a seat this morning at CBS 30th Street Studio, sipping on an elegant Lung Ching Dragonwell.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> 'Miles'... "Kind Of Blue" @ 24/192...... HUGE sound! I had a seat this morning at CBS 30th Street Studio, sipping on an elegant Lung Ching Dragonwell.


 
 Which rig are you listening with this morning?


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *longbowbbs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Which rig are you listening with this morning?


 
  
 Hmmm, let's see (SO turns on some lighting...):
  
 Sup'd up Mac mini music sever; Audirvana Plus > Mhdt USBridge - Coax Out > W4S DAC-1 (Upgraded Digital Board; Low ESR "_Super Caps_") > Shindo Lab Aurieges MM Pre-amp > Shindo Lab Sinhonia monaural amps > HE-Adapter > re-cabled HE-6. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
  
 Add.:  I need to consult with our resident designer early January and bad! I suspect the HE-Adapter may be interfering with my pursuit.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> > Originally Posted by *longbowbbs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> >
> > Which rig are you listening with this morning?
> ...


 
 Nice! I like the chain!
  
 Is there an alternative to the HE Adapter?


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *longbowbbs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Nice! I like the chain!
> ...


 
  
 Yes, I need to consult with our Ambassador. I understand he's in transit back home after showing the EU how it's done! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Just funnin' rosgr63; Ultrainferno 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
  
 Post Script.:  The sun came up. My session _just went final._ Time for bed... cheers!


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> > Originally Posted by *longbowbbs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> >
> > Nice! I like the chain!
> ...


 
 Ha!


----------



## Clayton SF

Chic! A great disco LP from the past. Love the cover.
  
 I've never been able to find a great recording of Miles Davis - Kind of Blue. The opening notes sound so distorted and overly saturated. SO, do you think it was originally recorded this way? It sounds like his trumpet is too close to the mike. I have 3 versions and they all sound like that. It is, however, one of my favorite LPs.
  
 Happy downloading and listening. I just downloaded this CD: http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=1960980
  
 It is incredible on my WA22 with RCA 6AS7, CBS 6SN7, and Amperex 5AR4


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn. In anticipation of your arrival back to NC, I decided to buy a caramel maple spice cake topped with candied pumpkin seeds to celebrate your return. It is from _*Flour & Co.*_
  
 Here it is in the refrigerator ready for me to dive into it at around 5PM. The frosting got a little banged up so I had to patch it up with a bent icing knife. Some got on my fingers so I had to lick that up too.
  
 Welcome back, Glenn!


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


>


 
  
 WOWZA!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'll have a piece. Thanks!


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Chic! A great disco LP from the past. Love the cover.
> 
> I've never been able to find a great recording of Miles Davis - Kind of Blue. The opening notes sound so distorted and overly saturated. SO, do you think it was originally recorded this way? It sounds like his trumpet is too close to the mike. I have 3 versions and they all sound like that. It is, however, one of my favorite LPs.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ooh, new music! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will check out Miss Tasmin later this evening (post football 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I'm trying to cut snack purchases next week to afford a new CD: Camille Thomas et Béatrice Berrut




  
 ​  
 "Kind Of Blue" - Unfortunately, the distortion appears to be original, whatever happened during that session. As I understand from reading the liner notes of Bill Evans (an excerpt below), there were no practices. While I find that aforementioned passage troubling with each listen, that the group bravely lived in the moment and went for it, leaves me with strong admiration.
  
_"Miles conceived these settings only hours before the recording dates and arrived with sketches which indicated to the group what was to be played. Therefore, you will hear something close to pure spontaneity in these performances. The group had never played these pieces prior to the recordings and I think without exception the first complete performance of each was a "take."_
                                                               _ - Bill Evans_


----------



## dminches

I don't think that is distortion. I think Miles just missed the note.


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> Ooh, new music!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 SO. Here's _*The Lark Ascending*_.wav for your post football enjoyment.


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> SO. Here's _*The Lark Ascending*_.wav for your post football enjoyment.


 
  





 A resounding "Thanks" from around the way... down I-5! Since my team already lost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Oakland Raiders), I may even slide the KEFs into position and watch the game with no volume while music fills the air.


----------



## Silent One

dminches said:


> I don't think that is distortion. I think Miles just missed the note.


 
  
 If one truly understood the era, not only did some performers routinely miss notes, but whole performances... while being on stage! But I'm not talkin'.


----------



## Clayton SF

Here's to a very happy Sunday afternoon with Miles, music, and Champagne.


----------



## jc9394

WA22, Davis, and bubblies? I missed that combo.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Here's to a very happy Sunday afternoon with Miles, music, and Champagne.


 
 My bottle's almost empty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but the tunes are still playing...


----------



## Clayton SF

Continuous music holds nothing to an empty bottle! Enjoy!


----------



## GrindingThud

Merry Christmas from Linn:
http://www.linn.co.uk/christmas


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Here's to a very happy Sunday afternoon with Miles, music, and Champagne.


 
  
 MY GOODNESS!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

RCA 6AS7G prices sure have gone up lately
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/390715248164


----------



## Skylab

Actually that particular seller has been trying to get that sort of price for RCA 6AS7G's literally for years.  I wonder if he ever actually does...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ultrainferno said:


> RCA 6AS7G prices sure have gone up lately
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/390715248164


 
  
 luckily plenty of other sellers still selling them for much much cheaper.


----------



## magiccabbage

yea that's ridiculous! he needs a kick in the ass. If all the power tubes get that expensive i would have to wave goodbye to the tube game.


----------



## Quinto

dminches said:


> I don't think that is distortion. I think Miles just missed the note.


 

 I heard Miles say in a interview he's not afraid to miss a note, because he'll make sure to miss it again in the re-run of the tune


----------



## 2359glenn

Hello all
  
 Back home and starting to recover from the time change.
 Done a bunch of headphone listening with Stavros
 ate lots of wonderful food made by Stavros mother a all around good time.
 Should be bock to working on amps tomorrow.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Hello all


----------



## Ultrainferno

They have arrived!


----------



## parbaked

Those do NOT look 'AMATEUR' at all!


----------



## john57

Those "Spark Plugs"!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Have you tried any of them ????


----------



## Ultrainferno

john57 said:


> Those "Spark Plugs"!!




Something special? 




2359glenn said:


> Have you tried any of them ????




Not yet, maybe tomorrow. Do you maybe think they're no good?


----------



## GrindingThud

Beautiful!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

this guy still has rk60s as well, dunno if they're good or not though.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Raytheon-1641-RK60-NOS-NIB-tube-/291019981820?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43c22483fc


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice Ultra.
  
 I wonder who got the quad..................


----------



## Silent One

Spinning vinyl in the early morning hours...


----------



## Silent One

KEF Coda 9 floor standing speakers; Auditorium 23 A23 Silver speaker cables; Japanese floor standing candle holders. _Another overnight session in the books._


----------



## magiccabbage

lovely stuff


----------



## parbaked

magiccabbage said:


> lovely stuff


 
 Only issue with those candle holders is that SO can't burn 'em at BOTH ends!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Only issue with those candle holders is that SO can't burn 'em at BOTH ends!


 






 Hasn't been for the lack of trying.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> parbaked said:
> 
> 
> > Only issue with those candle holders is that SO can't burn 'em at BOTH ends!
> ...


 
 Yeah man!


----------



## Oskari

silent one said:


> KEF Corda 9 floor standing speakers;


 
  
 FYI, I believe that's _Coda_, not _Corda_.


----------



## Silent One

oskari said:


> FYI, I believe that's _Coda_, not _Corda_.


 
  





 You're absolutely right... I could use a bit more sleep!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

more Glenn amp listening tonight...


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> more Glenn amp listening tonight...


 
  
 Yes, more 'Glenn amp' listening! Lucky for me, I was able to hold on to my HD650. Will make sure the two date some time this week.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oooh you have a pair of hd 650?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

working on my rectifier tube rolling comparison as well as my power tube one. 
  
 does anyone know if a 5U4G tube rolling thread already exists?


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> oooh you have a pair of hd 650?


 
  
 Yes, Glenn highly recommended the pairing for my 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk._ And they eventually appeared inside my listening room... a whole lotta magic! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  


dubstep girl said:


> working on my rectifier tube rolling comparison as well as my power tube one.
> 
> does anyone know if a 5U4G tube rolling thread already exists?


 
  
 I doubt it. Seems recs get mentioned inside other tube threads in a _"While we're here"_ manner. You should go ahead and get us current and start one!


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Yes, Glenn highly recommended the pairing for my 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk._ And they eventually appeared inside my listening room... a whole lotta magic!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ah ok thanks guys!
  
 i got 9 tubes already written. took quite a few hours and like 3000 words already! hope its not too long.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> ah ok thanks guys!
> 
> i got 9 tubes already written. took quite a few hours and like 3000 words already! hope its not too long.


 
 No im sure it will be good reading, i have some 5u4g's on the way as well. you posting soon?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looking forward to reading it DG! Were they all compared/used in the same amp for the write-up? (which would be best as each amp is different)


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> ah ok thanks guys!
> 
> i got 9 tubes already written. took quite a few hours and like 3000 words already! hope its not too long.


 
  
 What's a few extra words between a good read and an additional bowl of green tea or cafe?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ultrainferno said:


> Looking forward to reading it DG! Were they all compared/used in the same amp for the write-up? (which would be best as each amp is different)


 
  
 yeah mostly Glenn OTL now (re-listening as I write up as well to make sure its right), and some where on WA22, and i noted some differences, also on WA6-SE differences, but I can hear them which is good and I have noted it in the review for those tubes as well....
  
 did like 8 hours of straight listening today.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Yes, more 'Glenn amp' listening! Lucky for me, I was able to hold on to my HD650. Will make sure the two date some time this week.


 
  
  


silent one said:


> Yes, Glenn highly recommended the pairing for my 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk._ And they eventually appeared inside my listening room... a whole lotta magic!


 
  
  
 Did you tried HD800 with Glenn's OTL?


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> ah ok thanks guys!
> 
> i got 9 tubes already written. took quite a few hours and like 3000 words already! hope its not too long.


 
  
 Very nice, next is power tubes?


----------



## parbaked

dubstep girl said:


> working on my rectifier tube rolling comparison as well as my power tube one.


 
 Curious to hear more of your experience rolling rectifier tubes compared to driver or output tubes as in which have most impact to roll and other differences...


----------



## daigo

Everyone here seems to be knowledgeable about tube vendors so I figured I'd ask here.  
  
 Does anyone know of a decent source for purchasing a pair of EML 300B mesh plates?


----------



## jc9394

George  http://tubesusa.com/tubesusa.html


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Did you tried HD800 with Glenn's OTL?


 
  
 Not yet. Glenn owns the HD800 and suggests it is a more refined pairing than the HD650. Maybe I'll hit the streets for a _mini-mini meet_ with an HD800 owner.
  
 Also, tell me about your K-Mok shopping spree... what did you get?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rectifier tube comparison thread done! (also just to have a 5U4G tube roller thread to go with the 6AS7G/6SN7 threads out there). now to work on the 6AS7G comparison (which i will just pop into the 6AS7G thread).
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> rectifier tube comparison thread done! (also just to have a 5U4G tube roller thread to go with the 6AS7G/6SN7 threads out there). now to work on the 6AS7G comparison (which i will just pop into the 6AS7G thread).
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread


 




  
 Got one foot out the door... will enjoy it at lunch!


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> I can send you a 5U8C along with a adapter I gave them to some of the guys that have my amps
> If nothing else it looks cool but It won't work in any other amps they can't
> handle the 5amps the filament draws from the power transformer.


 
  
 Glenn, would the 5U8C work in the 300b amp?


----------



## rnadell

Just downloaded 
 Cecile Mclorin Salvant "Woman Child"
 Really worth a listen, female jazz


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Glenn, would the 5U8C work in the 300b amp?


 

 No the 5 volt winding is only 3 amps the fact that I couldn't use the 3DG4 due to it's PIV voltage is to low
 for the B+ in a 300B amp. So I had transformers wound for 5volt 3amp there was no reason for
 the extra cost to make the 5 volt be 5amp.
 In the OTL the B+ is lower and I have the 5 volt taped at 3.3 volts and the winding is 5amps because the
 3DG4 draws 4amps. And I have leeway to use the 5U8C.


----------



## magiccabbage

Glenn just wondering if you have built solid state before? Someone said something about a hybrid amp before.


----------



## dminches

We don't want Glenn wasting his time on SS amps.


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> We don't want Glenn wasting his time on SS amps.


 
  
  
 X2, I still need to get my SET amp from Glenn.


----------



## magiccabbage

dminches said:


> We don't want Glenn wasting his time on SS amps.


 
 just asking.


----------



## Clayton SF

dminches said:


> We don't want Glenn wasting his time on SS amps.


 

 I would say that any time spent on creating amps that make music be it through SS or Tubes is not wasted. 
 Besides, I love both worlds!


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> I would say that any time spent on creating amps that make music be it through SS or Tubes is not wasted.
> Besides, I love both worlds!


 
 I haven't tried any good SS amps for headphones. There is nowhere in Ireland to try them out. I had to organize the first Irish meet just to hear the HD800 and other gears. I am only interested in tube amps at the moment but i would love to hear some SS amps. You guys are lucky in that you can just go to your local meet but on the island here there is not really a chance of that. Even at the London meet they did not have the amps that i was interested in (WA5,DNA,GSXMK2)
  
 Anyway i look forward to the new Glenn builds, i wonder will there be any more before the year is out?
  
 Clayton Do you still have WA2 or WA22? Could you post a picture of your OTL beside one of the woo's. I think you have the smaller chassis though i was thinking the nwer build beside the Glenn OTL just to see what my rig will eventually look like.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> I would say that any time spent on creating amps that make music be it through SS or Tubes is not wasted.
> *Besides, I love both worlds!*


----------



## Silent One

I still find myself lusting after this design. Perhaps, 2014 when I get a new release from the studio.
  
  
 Recently, I discovered one of my fountain pen loving members is also a Shindo owner. And had a custom Japanese fountain pen made to show his love for said gears. He had the Danitrio pen done "Omakase" style whereby one informs the artist or chef _"I'll leave it up to you."_


----------



## jc9394

Love Omakase...  nothing beats it when you sit at the sushi bar and tell the chef you want Omakase.  the only tough choice is with sake pairing or not.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Love Omakase...  nothing beats it when you sit at the sushi bar and tell the chef you want Omakase.  the only tough choice is with sake pairing or not.


 
  
 I'm only going to ask "_How much?_" after I return from the goodie store 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




with groceries. But I must, I am curious... and my love for writing by hand demands it! Though, the waiting list for this artist may be running at 2-3 years...
  
 Currently, I'm trying to imagine the best way, most tasteful way, to present Seamaster's design by way of badge or stamped engraving.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I like the custom graphics he had re-printed on his C3m tubes too.  Which brings up an angle I had not thought of.  Rather than removing the shield one can take advantage of its presence by painting it if they so wanted.
  
 I think knowledge of the resolution and file type is necessary to know if it's possible to print up those Glenn Studios logos.  The design can be lasered onto an anodized aluminum placard possibly.


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> I like the custom graphics he had re-printed on his C3m tubes too.  Which brings up an angle I had not thought of.  Rather than removing the shield one can take advantage of its presence by painting it if they so wanted.
> 
> I think knowledge of the resolution and file type is necessary to know if it's possible to print up those Glenn Studios logos.  The design can be lasered onto an anodized aluminum placard possibly.


 
  
 Customer did not reprint - those are NOS tubes that come with the Vosne-Romanee model. Though, it's possible Shindo-san could be silk screening them himself. Many of the NOS parts he uses in our gear he collected several years ago. You raise a brilliant idea with painting them - if they're going to be exposed, they might as well look good. Yamamoto-san removes the metal shielding; likes the glass aesthetic.
  
 I really like the understated look Seamaster presents because it won't (or shouldn't) detract from the amp as a whole.


----------



## longbowbbs

Question for the group...I am curious about tube life span...If a tube is rated for say, 10,000 hours I assume that includes any time being on rather than when a signal is going through it. So if the amp is running but I am not using it then that adds to the time on the tube.
  
 Am I right about that?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## parbaked

Yes, the rated life does not consider variations in signal; just on/off.


----------



## longbowbbs

Thanks. That is what I expected.


----------



## Silent One

I don't think any of my 10k rated Glass will ever get there, NOS or no. As soon as it begins to slip down the curve of sonic degradation... _Next._


----------



## 2359glenn

longbowbbs said:


> Question for the group...I am curious about tube life span...If a tube is rated for say, 10,000 hours I assume that includes any time being on rather than when a signal is going through it. So if the amp is running but I am not using it then that adds to the time on the tube.
> 
> Am I right about that?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 In most amps the current through the tubes is the same whether audio is applied or not.
 And with audio the average current is the same.
 So just leaving the amp on is using up the tubes as much as if the music was playing.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Question for the group...I am curious about tube life span...If a tube is rated for say, 10,000 hours I assume that includes any time being on rather than when a signal is going through it. So if the amp is running but I am not using it then that adds to the time on the tube.
> ...


 
 Thanks Glenn!


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> Thanks Glenn!


 
  
 How long do you typically warm the Cary before you settle down and listen? There's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





somethin' about heat... and I like my fire bottles 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




hot! Jimmy Smith ain't really cookin' on the Hammond B3 unless my amps are cookin'!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Been weeks since I used a tube amp. What's wrong with me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (Blame Cypherlabs)


----------



## Silent One

Of late, I've got the BIG SS in a 10 day rotation (once every 10 days); Glass rounding out the month.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Glenn!
> ...


 
 Usually about 30 minutes....It is nice and warm by then.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Been weeks since I used a tube amp. What's wrong with me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Absolutely nothing. I listen to tubes, SSs, and hybrids all the time with nary a thought of my sanity. Huh?


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Absolutely nothing. I listen to tubes, SSs, and hybrids all the time with nary a thought of my sanity. Huh?


 
 Yeah but blaming Cypher labs sounds like he's listening to his portable rig at home


----------



## Ultrainferno

parbaked said:


> Yeah but blaming Cypher labs sounds like he's listening to his portable rig at home


 
  
 It's true, I admit it. Well, partially. I've been using my portable rig with the LCD-2. The misses made me move all my gear out of the living room and I'm too lazy to get out of the couch.


----------



## parbaked

At least you are still allowed in the living room!
 Maybe take a nice pic of your lit up 300B and stare at it while listening to your little rig....


----------



## dminches

Stavros, Glenn, or anyone else, how do you test an ECC40?  It has 8 pins which are equally spaced and none of my testers have a socket that that tube.


----------



## magiccabbage

is this Stavros? - - http://www.head-fi.org/u/120860/stavros
  
 not very active,  hear people talk about him on this thread but never see him. Is he real?


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> is this Stavros? - - http://www.head-fi.org/u/120860/stavros
> 
> not very active,  hear people talk about him on this thread but never see him. Is he real?


 

 Stavros is rosgr63 I don't know who that Stavros is.
 I think he is real I just came back from visiting him at his home in Athens.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Stavros, Glenn, or anyone else, how do you test an ECC40?  It has 8 pins which are equally spaced and none of my testers have a socket that that tube.


 

 You would have to have a adapter to test them.
 I think I made some adapters for Stavros don't know if I have that strange socket right now
 I will have to look when I get home.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> Stavros is rosgr63 I don't know who that Stavros is.
> I think he is real I just came back from visiting him at his home in Athens.


 
 LOL , I had assumed he was just an elusive guy, I didn't realize he was rosgr63.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I figured your post was sarcasm


----------



## dminches

Glenn, don't let the adapter slow down your amp-building process


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Glenn, don't let the adapter slow down your amp-building process


 

 I just got back to building amps yesterday First my feet were saw from needing new prosthesis in my shoos
 Then I got the flu just got over that yesterday. So now It's back to amp building.
 I was just look and see if I have one of those sockets.


----------



## dminches

Glad you are feeling better.  I hope you can take some time off during the holidays.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Glad you are feeling better.  I hope you can take some time off during the holidays.


 

 I have 11 days off my day job that is when I plan on getting your amp finished.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> I have 11 days off my day job that is when I plan on getting your amp finished.


 
 God only needed 6 days...no wonder your amps are so darn good!


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Jimmy Smith ain't really cookin' on the Hammond B3 unless my amps are cookin'!


 
 I'm in the midst of a private, but loud "Sermon".
 That Hammond does require tubes to sound its best....


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> I'm in the midst of a private, but loud "Sermon".
> That Hammond does require tubes to sound its best....


 
  
 You made my night! Vinyl or Digital Album? I inherited the former this year. It's clearly evident my peoples had a great time - the record has more scratches than Grandmaster Flash 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_ever could._
  
 I finally placed the _diminutive_





Sansui G-22000 on a wooden hand-truck; will roll it out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for tonight's session... and hear _The Sermon_ on the hard drive. Still, Mr. Smith needs a proper analog introduction. Will attempt to clean it up with the record cleaning machine Thursday night and fling it onto the MMF-7 with love from the Aurieges/Sinhonia. _Scratches and all... _
  
 Last week, there was some rekindling chat about the Big Russian. So Saturday evening, I pulled out the 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk_ for a couple of hours with the 5U8C (I'm lacking the specialized character for print) sitting high post. I like the touch of euphony the Big Russian brings.


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> You made my night! Vinyl or Digital Album?


 
 I only have the Blue Note CD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but it is one of my favorites, especially if I feel a little down....
 I'm feeling done buying gear and want more content. J Smith is high on my list!


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> You made my night! Vinyl or Digital Album? I inherited the former this year. It's clearly evident my peoples had a great time - the record has more scratches than Grandmaster Flash
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 were ye guys referring to johnny Hammond? I had his album "breakout" on vinyl but i sold it recently


----------



## parbaked

jimmy smith and his hammond b3 organ:

 must have, imo...
 ...but that johnny hammond album looks good too!


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Stavros is rosgr63 I don't know who that Stavros is.
> ...


 
  
 When our Man & The Myth goes viral, we'll have to celebrate his celebrity inside the thread... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


2359glenn said:


> dminches said:
> 
> 
> > Glad you are feeling better.  I hope you can take some time off during the holidays.
> ...


 
  
 Regarding your custom builds, I 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




studied the metrics. It strongly suggests efficiency rose during your return from Greece. And likely again year-end. Clearly, we should all lobby your employer for Bi-Annual vacations on your behalf.




 Great to hear you're feeling better!


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> I finally placed the _diminutive_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Pics required!
 Did you have to cruise by Home Depot to get some hourly labor to help you?


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> jimmy smith and his hammond b3 organ:
> 
> must have, imo...
> ...but that johnny hammond album looks good too!


 
  
 Yum-O! At least there'll be no pops & clicks to make you jump out of your seat! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not even sure how far into the record I'll be able to tolerate before I hit _"Eject!"_


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Yum-O! At least there'll be no pops & clicks to make you jump out of your seat!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I get so zoned on this disc I'm actually pleased to NOT have to hop up and flip the LP!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> I get so zoned on this disc I'm actually pleased to NOT have to hop up and flip the LP!


 





 You ain't heard nuthin' yet! My Astrud Gilberto "The Shadow Of Your Smile" (Double 45rpm) is so short, I gotta pull up my chair. How short? Track time between the two LPs is only about 25 minutes - and they repeated 2-3 tracks to fill the album... now that's short!
  
 When playing those LPs, just call me Jack-in-the-box, 'cause I stand up and sit down in a hurry!


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> When playing those LPs, just call me Jack-in-the-box, 'cause I stand up and sit down in a hurry!


 
  
 Funny that I never thought LPs were a hassle until I got a CD and could zone twice as long or pass out without my needle running out of music.
 Then 20+ years later I get a iPod and HRT iStreamer and CDs seemed a bother.
 Now I have to readjust myself so I can sit down (and then stand up) and enjoy me some vinyl!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

looks like i'm gonna have to get a new car since mine is dead now, might be putting up alot of nice tubes for sale soon...
  
 been thinking of just sticking to GSX MK2 for a while now (and a few headphones since the GSX does everything I want it to and works with everything), so maybe this was meant to be...  but anyways, i'll be happy with a new car to drive to work


----------



## Sko0byDoo

dubstep girl said:


> looks like i'm gonna have to get a new car since mine is dead now, might be putting up alot of nice tubes for sale soon...
> 
> been thinking of just sticking to GSX MK2 for a while now, so maybe this was meant to be...  but anyways, i'll be happy with a new car to drive to work


 
  
 Sorry to hear...crossing fingers every day for my 15 year-old car too...
  
 But a car >> tubes/amps/headphones !  Best of luck!


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry to hear about your experience. But since a car is involved, this setback
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is just a mere bump in the road. You'll soon get back to audio and reach new heights. And "Happy Holidays!" to you and the family.


----------



## Silent One

The bigger the headache, the bigger the pill 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  




  
 Recommended dose: Take one 93 lb tablet with tea before bedtime (Sansui G-22000; 265wpc out to HiFiMAN HE-6 via speaker taps).
  
 For contrast, OTL located lower left...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

silent one said:


> Sorry to hear about your experience. But since a car is involved, this setback
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 thanks. Happy Holidays to you too!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sko0bydoo said:


> Sorry to hear...crossing fingers every day for my 15 year-old car too...
> 
> But a car >> tubes/amps/headphones !  Best of luck!


 
  
 thats how i was with my car until now. problem free the last couple years until now. 
  
 time to get a new one!  and at least i keep the GSX and Mytek! (endgame!)


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> thats how i was with my car until now. problem free the last couple years until now.
> 
> time to get a new one!  and at least i keep the GSX and Mytek! (endgame!)


 
 hopefully you wont need to sell all your tubes and you can keep a few for your big comeback later on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Happy Christmas.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> looks like i'm gonna have to get a new car since mine is dead now, might be putting up alot of nice tubes for sale soon...
> 
> been thinking of just sticking to GSX MK2 for a while now (and a few headphones since the GSX does everything I want it to and works with everything), so maybe this was meant to be...  but anyways, i'll be happy with a new car to drive to work


 
  
  
 Sorry to heard you need a new car and sell some tubes, I know you will come back to tubes.


----------



## Ultrainferno




----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Sorry to heard you need a new car and sell some tubes, I know you will come back to tubes.


 
  
 yes i think i will in the future. sucks selling all these tubes now though... especially since they will keep rising in price.
  
 anyways, i've been enjoying my LCD-3 alot with the GSX lately. the new drivers sound fantastic!


----------



## parbaked

dubstep girl said:


> yes i think i will in the future. sucks selling all these tubes now though... especially since they will keep rising in price.


 
 If you think the tubes you are selling will appreciate in price and you think you will desire to re-aquire them later then you should consider selling some of your depreciating assets  e.g. amps and cans. The tubes you have will never improve whereas there will always be new better amp and cans to buy.
 Plus I imagine you trust the tubes you have and buying others could be a gamble...
 Good Luck!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

parbaked said:


> If you think the tubes you are selling will appreciate in price and you think you will desire to re-aquire them later then you should consider selling some of your depreciating assets  e.g. amps and cans. The tubes you have will never improve whereas there will always be new better amp and cans to buy.
> Plus I imagine you trust the tubes you have and buying others could be a gamble...
> Good Luck!


 
  
  
 very true. the tubes are static. it sucks selling them for that reason, that i know all mine work and are in good shape. hard to buy again and make sure they work and are from a good seller.
  
 anyways the thread is up, im still adding tubes to the list. pretty much everything will be there. yes, RK60 too.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/696308/huge-tube-sale-5ar4-5r4-5u4-274-rectifiers-6as7g-6080-power-tubes-and-6sn7-6f8g-drivers


----------



## Ultrainferno

I was cleaning all my tubes while listening to glenn's 300b amp when I saw this on one of my recently purchased RK60s. I haven't tried any of them yet.
  
 This is bad right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 It's on the inside of the glass. Trow it away I guess?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ultrainferno said:


> I was cleaning all my tubes while listening to glenn's 300b amp when I saw this on one of my recently purchased RK60s. I haven't tried any of them yet.
> 
> This is bad right
> 
> ...


 
  
 oooh they look like the ones i got, well except mine don't look broken. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 try it out if it works before you throw it away. it looks broken in the picture though, you sure its on the inside and its not just a broken tube?


----------



## Ultrainferno

No I was just messing around. As you can see the getter flash is completely gone. It's a bad tube


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ultrainferno said:


> No I was just messing around. As you can see the getter flash is completely gone. It's a bad tube


 
 aww


----------



## Silent One

Perhaps, a RK60 that failed to meet high altitude '596' certification?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

silent one said:


> Perhaps, a RK60 that failed to meet high altitude '596' certification?


 
  
 an unmighty 596?


----------



## Clayton SF

I posted a photo of some of my amps at another blog site and a member questioned the identity of my 596 rectiifer. He'd never seen one before as well as the rest of the community on that blog. So I told him that it was a UE 596 and said that it was hard to find but told him that prefer the Tung-Sol 5U4GB as well as the RCA 5U4GB. Alex Cavalli sent me a prototype of his new amp and thank goodness it doesn't need a rectifier. It is a hybrid amp and uses one E88CC. Presently it sounds very good and is warm sounding (in a particularly satisfying way) but still retaining incredible detail in the mid to upper ranges. The bottom goes about 7 leagues down. 
  
 The red faceplate is borrowed from the LF MKII. This is called the Liquid Cobalt.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> an unmighty 596?


 
 haha


----------



## Dubstep Girl

clayton sf said:


> I posted a photo of some of my amps at another blog site and a member questioned the identity of my 596 rectiifer. He'd never seen one before as well as the rest of the community on that blog. So I told him that it was a UE 596 and said that it was hard to find but told him that prefer the Tung-Sol 5U4GB as well as the RCA 5U4GB. Alex Cavalli sent me a prototype of his new amp and thank goodness it doesn't need a rectifier. It is a hybrid amp and uses one E88CC. Presently it sounds very good and is warm sounding (in a particularly satisfying way) but still retaining incredible detail in the mid to upper ranges. The bottom goes about 7 leagues down.
> 
> The red faceplate is borrowed from the LF MKII. This is called the Liquid Cobalt.


 
  
 i did not like the tung sol 5u4gb that much.
  
 nice amp, probably will cost a little more than liquid fire. not a huge fan of cavalli, but maybe this one will be a winner.


----------



## Clayton SF

dubstep girl said:


> i did not like the tung sol 5u4gb that much.


 

 I know. My hearing is not as good as it used to be 30 years ago so perhaps that why the TS sounds good to me.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> The red faceplate is borrowed from the LF MKII. This is called the Liquid Cobalt.


 
  
 Very nice, Clayton SF.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> I know. My hearing is not as good as it used to be 30 years ago so perhaps that why the TS sounds good to me.


 
  
 I prefer it over the 596 too, by far, and I'm only in my 30s


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


>


 




 200 Grams  45RPM  2 LPs
  
 Though I've long had it @ 16/44.1, I finally broke down and ordered this...


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> I prefer it over the 596 too, by far, and I'm only in my 30s


 
  
 There's plenty of examples in life where the best may not serve you best.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> 200 Grams  45RPM  2 LPs
> 
> Though I've long had it @ 16/44.1, I finally broke down and ordered this...


 
 I love it, I really like the soft reed approach. nice and breathy. It sounds incredible on HD800.


----------



## magiccabbage

i always wondered if he used wooden or metal reeds. Surely its not possible to get that sound with metal mouth piece? Anyway enjoy


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> I love it, I really like the soft reed approach. *nice and breathy.* It sounds incredible on HD800.


 
  
 And then there's Astrud's breathy and feather-like vocals...


----------



## longbowbbs

I still like the 596's very much!


----------



## Silent One

Ah yes... _The Mighty 596!_


----------



## Silent One

"Happy Holidays!" to you all...


----------



## Ultrainferno

silent one said:


> "Happy Holidays!" to you all...


 
  
 Merry Christmas everyone. Enjoy the time with your family and friends.
 Mariah Carey - All I want for Christmas is you, never sounded as good as on glenn's 300b amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In all seriousness though, thank you Glenn for making me this great sounding amp in 2013!


----------



## Silent One

I just stuffed some extra Veuve Clicquot inside the fridge.


----------



## longbowbbs

Merry Christmas to all! A balmy -13 F (-25C for you folks across the pond!) sunny morning here in NW Wisconsin.
  

  

  
 You are all the best! Thanks for a great tube filled 2013!
  
 Eric


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Happy Holidays!


----------



## GrindingThud

Brrrr, Happy Holidays!


----------



## parbaked




----------



## magiccabbage

happy Christmas everyone


----------



## longbowbbs

parbaked said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 Nice Parbaked!


----------



## rosgr63

Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday Season to all.


----------



## magiccabbage

rosgr63 said:


> Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday Season to all.


 
 same to  you - question for you. ¬
  
 I wanted to ask you what are your fav 6sn7's in the Glenn Otl and what are the least noisy?


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Holidays and merry Christmas to all


----------



## Clayton SF

_*Merry Christmas Eve everyone!*_
 Santa's Guidance System is a bit antiquated but we'll get him to your place on time!


----------



## GrindingThud

Are there tubes in there?


----------



## dminches

Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to all. Enjoy and be safe.


----------



## Silent One

It's 80 degrees here in Los Angeles. Going cycling tomorrow - 50-75 miles along the Pacific Ocean. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 "Merry Christmas!"


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> It's 80 degrees here in Los Angeles. Going cycling tomorrow - 50-75 miles along the Pacific Ocean.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 More snow coming in tonight as we speak...(er...Type) looks like -12 by breakfast!


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> More snow coming in tonight as we speak...(er...Type) looks like -12 by breakfast!


 





 Let it snow!


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> More snow coming in tonight as we speak...(er...Type) looks like -12 by breakfast!


 
  
 You rock. Christmas is all about kicking back and doing nothing but doing nothing. Okay so any excuse. But you live in beautiful snow country. And so does Ultra-. But snow hasn't arrive at his doorstep, yet. 
  
 Merry Christmas. Snowman. Try building a snow 5U4G!


----------



## jc9394

longbowbbs said:


> More snow coming in tonight as we speak...(er...Type) looks like -12 by breakfast!




I wish I have that much snow the last few days and coming two days in NH, it is unseasonably warm and the skiing slope are slushy...


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > More snow coming in tonight as we speak...(er...Type) looks like -12 by breakfast!
> ...


 
 I should build a snow version of the 596!


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> I should build a snow version of the 596!


 
  
 Don't forget the sticks on top!


----------



## wotts

Merry Christmas y'all!
  
 My nephews are in for a surprise since Santa Wotts left footprints and reindeer tracks on the roof!
  

  
  
 It's a cold one here...


----------



## rosgr63

magiccabbage said:


> same to  you - question for you. ¬
> 
> I wanted to ask you what are your fav 6sn7's in the Glenn Otl and what are the least noisy?


 
  
 For the 6BL7 tubes I am using a 1633 Ken Rad driver.
  
 For the 5998 tubes I use a Fivre 6SN7.
  
 I will roll more drivers soon.


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> Merry Christmas y'all!
> 
> My nephews are in for a surprise since Santa Wotts left footprints and reindeer tracks on the roof!
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> For the 6BL7 tubes I am using a 1633 Ken Rad driver.
> 
> For the 5998 tubes I use a Fivre 6SN7.
> 
> I will roll more drivers soon.


 
  
 The FIVRE 6SN7 was so pleasant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I offered it tea!


----------



## magiccabbage

rosgr63 said:


> For the 6BL7 tubes I am using a 1633 Ken Rad driver.
> 
> For the 5998 tubes I use a Fivre 6SN7.
> 
> I will roll more drivers soon.


 
 thanks, i cant find much info on that fivre 6sn7. Is it hard to get?


----------



## rosgr63

It's not hard to get but it has a few variants and all sound good to me in my system.


----------



## magiccabbage

rosgr63 said:


> It's not hard to get but it has a few variants and all sound good to me in my system.


 
 what vendor would you suggest?


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> The FIVRE 6SN7 was so pleasant
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 When are you heading out for your cycle?


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> When are you heading out for your cycle?


 
 90 minutes... incoming calls dependent!


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> 90 minutes... incoming calls dependent!


 
 And then i presume you will heat up those Emerald green mono's and lay back for the day.


----------



## rosgr63

magiccabbage said:


> what vendor would you suggest?


 
  
  
 I got most of my Fivre via ebay.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> And then i presume you will heat up those Emerald green mono's and lay back for the day.


 
  
 I'm so full and sleepy, I may never make it out for that ride! Maybe tomorrow and then the Velodrome Saturday. I'm feeling last night's effect of Sweet potato Pie, Egg Nog, Pound Cake ect after a BIG dinner. And nearly stayed up 'til sunrise.
  
 The listening room is actually scheduled to be dark today/tonight while I run around with family and friends. But NOW you're tempting me! Maybe I'll go for a quick 15 miler, come back and hook up the KEFs, turn sports on the tellie without sound and chat on the phone some more.
  
  
 Update.:  I may have a chance to hear both the LCD-X & XC tonight; this holiday weekend. When ever that can happen, ALL other plans are getting revised! I'm awaiting word next few hours...


----------



## rosgr63

The Sylvania 6SN7W (Short Bottle, black base lower mica inside the base) sounds excellent with the 3DG4/5998's in the GR 6SN7/LP2/6AS7/5998.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> I'm so full and sleepy, I may never make it out for that ride! Maybe tomorrow and then the Velodrome Saturday. I'm feeling last night's effect of Sweet potato Pie, Egg Nog, Pound Cake ect after a BIG dinner. And nearly stayed up 'til sunrise.
> 
> The listening room is actually scheduled to be dark today/tonight while I run around with family and friends. But NOW you're tempting me! Maybe I'll go for a quick 15 miler, come back and hook up the KEFs, turn sports on the tellie without sound and chat on the phone some more.
> 
> ...


 
 oh that is great news, Will you be able to try it with the Glenn OTL? It is supposed to be a lot more efficient than the other Audeze headphones.


----------



## magiccabbage

rosgr63 said:


> The Sylvania 6SN7W (Short Bottle, black base lower mica inside the base) sounds excellent with the 3DG4/5998's in the GR 6SN7/LP2/6AS7/5998.


 
 I will have to check those out - thanks. I bought a box of tubes from Xcalibur255 but they are taking ages to get here, i presume i wont get them till next year. I just hope they are not lost in the post or stuck in customs.


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *magiccabbage* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> oh that is great news, Will you be able to try it with the Glenn OTL? It is supposed to be a lot more efficient than the other Audeze headphones.


 
  
 I eventually made it out the door for a pleasant and pedestrian 52 mile ride. Yes, once I have them in-house, might as well hook 'em up to everything that looks like an amp! The 2359glenn OTL_ Silver Hawk_ should drive them ease, no hard hat or lunch pale needed.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> I eventually made it out the door for a pleasant and pedestrian 52 mile ride. Yes, once I have them in-house, might as well hook 'em up to everything that looks like an amp! The 2359glenn OTL_ Silver Hawk_ should drive them ease, no hard hat or lunch pale needed.


----------



## Silent One

Though, my amp takes after Michelle Yeoh


----------



## jc9394

Nice, I love that movie too.


----------



## Clayton SF

My amp takes after ...


----------



## Silent One




----------



## longbowbbs

This is funny....


----------



## Silent One




----------



## GrindingThud

Nice.....now my new avatar. 



longbowbbs said:


> This is funny....


----------



## longbowbbs

grindingthud said:


> Nice.....now my new avatar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 haha...No Charge...(get it....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## rosgr63

Very cool Eric


----------



## parbaked

longbowbbs said:


> This is funny....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hilarious! I emailed to Jef who built my Spud!


----------



## longbowbbs

parbaked said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > This is funny....
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

Here are pictures of my latest amp That I am going to ship on Monday
  
 It will run with 6BL7s for high impedance or 6AS7 / 6336 for low impedance phones
  

  
 With 6AS7s
  

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 he


----------



## Dubstep Girl

beautiful!


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice Glenn! Who is the lucky recipient?


----------



## magiccabbage

sweet


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> Here are pictures of my latest amp That I am going to ship on Monday
> 
> It will run with 6BL7s for high impedance or 6AS7 / 6336 for low impedance phones
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very nice!


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Very nice!


 

 Now I can start on your amp


----------



## 2359glenn

longbowbbs said:


> Nice Glenn! Who is the lucky recipient?


 

 It is going to Amine in Morocco.


----------



## longbowbbs

So I am sitting here enjoying my Cary and some nice Holly Cole "Temptations" and the sound starts to crackle....I look over at the Cary and the far right KT88 looks like it is going Nova!
  
 Naturally, that is the one tube I do not have a backup for.....Order sent in, maybe they'll be here by Tuesday or Thursday. Another great sounding but short lived Gold Lion. Last one's I order. I had the same issue with the 6922's.
  
 On the plus side I have been thinking about pulling my old Denon AVR-5800 out of the box for some dedicated 2 channel use.  200 watts/ch of pure 2 channel power. It is huge and weighs in at 62 lbs. From Michael Fremer's 3/29/2001 Stereophile review of the receiver:
  
"If you plug an analog (gasp!) source into the AVR-5800—a turntable or perhaps the analog outputs of an SACD player—the signal is delivered to the amplifiers in the analog domain without any A/D and D/A conversion. Furthermore, when the input is analog, power to the digital section is turned off. The attention paid by Denon in their attempt to get a complex multichannel receiver to behave like a high-performance, 2-channel, high-end audio product is, in my experience, unprecedented."
  
 I have to say having so much power and reserve really makes the bass uber solid with the Vandersteen's. Nothing like a full range speaker that is well amplified. However, in Pure Direct mode with no lights on it has no visual sex appeal compared to a properly appointed tube amp!
  

  
 It does sound great, I have to say. Very different from the tubes I have been enjoying with Decware and Cary. It'll be fun to listen to the difference for a few days. Nice to have choices.


----------



## GrindingThud

I think this is my favorite configuration/layout. Very nice. 



2359glenn said:


> Here are pictures of my latest amp That I am going to ship on Monday
> 
> It will run with 6BL7s for high impedance or 6AS7 / 6336 for low impedance phones
> 
> ...


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> Now I can start on your amp


 
  
 Music to my ears.  Please do not go to sleep tonight until it is done.


----------



## 2359glenn

longbowbbs said:


> So I am sitting here enjoying my Cary and some nice Holly Cole "Temptations" and the sound starts to crackle....I look over at the Cary and the far right KT88 looks like it is going Nova!
> 
> Naturally, that is the one tube I do not have a backup for.....Order sent in, maybe they'll be here by Tuesday or Thursday. Another great sounding but short lived Gold Lion. Last one's I order. I had the same issue with the 6922's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you thought of trying a different brand of tube say some NOS GE6550s.
 OR Svetlana 6550s
 Give up on those Gold Lion tubes before they damage your output transformers.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> Have you thought of trying a different brand of tube say some NOS GE6550s.
> OR Svetlana 6550s
> Give up on those Gold Lion tubes before they damage your output transformers.


 
 Looks like I can use 6550's, KT88's or KT120's with the Cary. Not a tube variety I am well versed in. Cary is shipping Electro Harmonix KT88's as stock currently.


----------



## john57

longbowbbs said:


> Looks like I can use 6550's, KT88's or KT120's with the Cary. Not a tube variety I am well versed in. Cary is shipping Electro Harmonix KT88's as stock currently.


 
 I am using  Svetlana 6550 tubes in my Quicksilver monoblocks six per side never a problem.


----------



## longbowbbs

john57 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like I can use 6550's, KT88's or KT120's with the Cary. Not a tube variety I am well versed in. Cary is shipping Electro Harmonix KT88's as stock currently.
> ...


 
 Thanks John! The Winged C's look really nice.


----------



## rnadell

longbowbbs said:


> Looks like I can use 6550's, KT88's or KT120's with the Cary. Not a tube variety I am well versed in. Cary is shipping Electro Harmonix KT88's as stock currently.


 
 Roger at Music Reference "Ram labs"  can provide any one of those tubes and while they are not NOS they 
 will be perfectly matched and great tubes. I used one of his amps for many years with his tubes and never had 
 a problem. Do a search for Ram labs and check him out.


----------



## longbowbbs

rnadell said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like I can use 6550's, KT88's or KT120's with the Cary. Not a tube variety I am well versed in. Cary is shipping Electro Harmonix KT88's as stock currently.
> ...


 
 Another great suggestion! Thanks Richard!


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey all. I'll be in Hawaii to say hello to my family and especially my mother. 2014 is around the corner and I want to wish my mother a Happy New Year personally! A lot has been happening lately at Head-Fi whether I be here or there. Just keep in mind that I keep all of yous in mind no matter what! 
  
 Wishing you a Happy New Year! I'll return to SF on the 6th of January.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> Hey all. I'll be in Hawaii to say hello to my family and especially my mother. 2014 is around the corner and I want to wish my mother a Happy New Year personally! A lot has been happening lately at Head-Fi whether I be here or there. Just keep in mind that I keep all of yous in mind no matter what!
> 
> Wishing you a Happy New Year! I'll return to SF on the 6th of January.


 
 Clayton, enjoy the family and the holiday season! I am looking forward to 2014 with you and the rest of our 2359Glenn family!


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> Hey all. I'll be in Hawaii to say hello to my family and especially my mother. 2014 is around the corner and I want to wish my mother a Happy New Year personally! A lot has been happening lately at Head-Fi whether I be here or there. Just keep in mind that I keep all of yous in mind no matter what!
> 
> Wishing you a Happy New Year! I'll return to SF on the 6th of January.


 
 Same to you Clayton happy new year.


----------



## Clayton SF

Nina Simone is an inspiration. Her performance of _Tomorrow Is My Turn_ moves me to welcome 2014.
 Enjoy this video of her live performance in Holland, December 25, 1965.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Nina Simone is an inspiration. Her performance of _Tomorrow Is My Turn_ moves me to welcome 2014.
> Enjoy this video of her live performance in Holland, December 25, 1965.




  
 Great selection and "Happy New Year!" to you and your family...


----------



## Silent One

rnadell said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like I can use 6550's, KT88's or KT120's with the Cary. Not a tube variety I am well versed in. Cary is shipping Electro Harmonix KT88's as stock currently.
> ...


 
  
 Wait... while the getting is good, anyone know where I can get a NOS pair of Seimens F2a tubes?


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice amp Glenn, well done.
  
 It can run on 2*or*4*X*6AS7 or 2*X*6336A or 6*X*6BL7 or 6*X*6SN7.
  
 Clayton Happy New Year to you, your family and friends.
 Don't forget the tube photos from Aulani..................
  
 Gabrielle Now & Always 20 Years Of Dreaming on MBP/Weiss DAC2/BA RFT6SN7-AVVT AV300B SL C37 Ennemoser/LA7000/Nordost Heimdal XLR (Balanced set up)


----------



## Silent One

> MBP/Weiss DAC2/BA RFT6SN7-AVVT AV300B SL C37 Ennemoser/LA7000/Nordost Heimdal XLR (Balanced set up)


 
  
_Now, that's some good living right there..._


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Very nice amp Glenn, well done.
> 
> It can run on 2*or*4*X*6AS7 or 2*X*6336A or 6*X*6BL7 or 6*X*6SN7.


 
 Yes the amp can run on 2 or 4   6AS7s 
 2 X 6336
 6 X 6BL7s
 or 6 X 6SN7s like the super 7
  
 I couldn't run it on the 6SN7s I didn't have enough 6SN7s left but I know it will work I ran your amp like that
 I have to find another lot of 6SN7s for $1.00ea


----------



## Ultrainferno

Pimp up fase 2 done
  

  
 Now just put the spikes more to the corners when my amp is in my office, but I forgot


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Yes the amp can run on 2 or 4   6AS7s
> 2 X 6336
> 6 X 6BL7s
> or 6 X 6SN7s like the super 7
> ...


 
  
 Just the right recipe for a tube addict.
  
 I hope Amine is much stronger than me!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Just the right recipe for a tube addict.
> 
> I hope Amine is much stronger than me!


 

 Anybody is better then you when it comes to tubes.
  
 I don't help the situation more new tubes in your Christmas present.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Pimp up fase 2 done
> 
> 
> 
> Now just put the spikes more to the corners when my amp is in my office, but I forgot


 

 Nice pimp job !!!!
 Yes I think the spikes will look better closer to the corners .


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks Glenn,
  
 we need to have a chat about a new OTL amp for me. I'll send you a PM


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Anybody is better then you when it comes to tubes.
> 
> I don't help the situation more new tubes in your Christmas present.


 
  
 You are certainly not helping me.................
  
 How can I give up when I get nice tubes as presents?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quick question for the 6SN7 guys. Are the CEI 6SN7GT any good at $8 a piece unused?


----------



## Oskari

Not a manufacturer; so, who made them? At that price they are probably Soviet, though.


----------



## Ultrainferno

And I suppose those russians are the worst sounding ones?


----------



## Skylab

Vintage Russian 6SN7 (6H8C is the Russian designation ) are actually decent tubes IMO, BUT it's very important not to overpay thinking you are getting something else, as you can get nice ones for $2 a tube if you try a little.


----------



## magiccabbage

Tubes arrived today. I will post pics later. Thank you Xcalibur255


----------



## Ultrainferno

magiccabbage said:


> Tubes arrived today. I will post pics later. Thank you Xcalibur255


 
  
 Which ones?
 I'm on Glenn's "to build" list again!


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> Which ones?
> I'm on Glenn's "to build" list again!


 
 6AS7G - 2x RCA Branded Sylvania and 2x Chatam 
  
 5U4G - Sylvania 5V3 , NOS 5Z3 , philco 5AW4
  
 6SN7 - Ratheon 6sn7gt vt-231 , Tung sol mouse ear , Ken rad black glass , Japanese Hitachi 6sn7gt
  
 I have tung sol 5998's also. 
  
  
 I have to get a new camera soon so i wont be able to add anymore for a few months but i will eventually hunt down a metal mullard and some others.


----------



## rosgr63

*HAPPY NEW YEAR!*
  
 My New Year's resolution is to go SS.................


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> *HAPPY NEW YEAR!*
> 
> My New Year's resolution is to go SS.................


 

 That looks like a traveling wave tube to me not SS Only good for microwave though.
 You SS I don't think so. If so How big of a amp do you want me to build you
 !00 watt 200 watt 500 watt per channel.
 Could make you a hybred  with a 6SN7 driving some MOSFETS to ween you off slowly.
 This way you won't have tube withdrawals .


----------



## snapple10

I need another tube amp to warm up
  
 How long is the wait for one of these? What are the options? Really need something for HD800 
 
 
 
Bemidji, MN
Tuesday 9:00 AM
Clear
  





-28
°F | °C

 Precipitation: 0%
 Humidity: 78%
 Wind: 5 mph
actually warmed up


----------



## 2359glenn

snapple10 said:


> I need another tube amp to warm up
> 
> How long is the wait for one of these? What are the options? Really need something for HD800
> 
> ...


 

 That -28 is why I moved from upstate NY to NC !!!
  
 IT will be a couple of months Waite at this point
 HD800s is what I have I would go with the OTL
 Would go with the one that can use six 6BL7s or two 6AS7s or two 6336.
 This amp sounds great with HD800 or HD650


----------



## snapple10

PM coming your way, thanks


----------



## Silent One

snapple10 said:


> I need another tube amp to warm up
> 
> How long is the wait for one of these? What are the options? Really need something for HD800
> 
> ...


----------



## longbowbbs

snapple10 said:


> I need another tube amp to warm up
> 
> How long is the wait for one of these? What are the options? Really need something for HD800
> 
> ...


 
 My new tubes for my Cary arrive today. The Denon SS is a lousy heater! We were -28 also in Barnes (about an hour east of Duluth) I love Bemidji! lot's of great Scout friends there.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> That -28 is why I moved from upstate NY to NC !!!


 
  
 But you forgot that you can't get real pizza in NC.


----------



## Silent One

'Silent One' checking in...
  
 Los Angeles, CA
Tuesday 9:00 AM
Clear



55
°F | °C

 Precipitation: 0%
 Humidity: 35%
 Wind: 0 mph
Temperature​ Precipitation​
Wind​





  
     9 AM​  ​  ​ 12 PM​  ​  ​ 3 PM​  ​  ​ 6 PM​  ​  ​ 9 PM​  ​  ​ 12 AM​  ​  ​ 3 AM​  ​  ​ 6 AM​  ​  ​ 9 AM​  ​  ​ 12 PM​  ​  ​ 3 PM​  ​  ​ 6 PM​  ​  ​ 9 PM​  ​  ​ 12 AM​  ​  ​ 3 AM​  ​  ​ 6 AM​  ​  ​ 9 AM​  ​  ​ 12 PM​  ​  ​ 3 PM​  ​  ​ 6 PM​  ​  ​ 9 PM​  ​  ​ 12 AM​  ​  ​ 3 AM​  ​  ​ 6 AM​  ​  ​ 9 AM​  ​  ​ 12 PM​  ​  ​ 3 PM​  ​  ​ 6 PM​  ​  ​ 9 PM​  ​  ​ 12 AM​  ​  ​ 3 AM​  ​  ​ 6 AM​  ​  ​ 9 AM​  ​  ​ 12 PM​  ​  ​ 3 PM​  ​  ​ 6 PM​  ​  ​ 9 PM​  ​  ​ 12 AM​  ​  ​ 3 AM​  ​  ​ 6 AM​  ​  ​ 9 AM​  ​  ​ 12 PM​  ​  ​ 3 PM​  ​  ​ 6 PM​  ​  ​ 9 PM​  ​  ​ 12 AM​  ​  ​ 3 AM​  ​  ​ 6 AM​  ​  ​ 9 AM​  ​  ​ 12 PM​  ​  ​ 3 PM​  ​  ​ 6 PM​  ​  ​ 9 PM​  ​  ​ 12 AM​  ​  ​ 3 AM​  ​  ​ 6 AM​  ​  ​ 9 AM​  ​  ​ 12 PM​  ​  ​ 3 PM​  ​  ​ 6 PM​  ​  ​ 9 PM​  ​  ​ 12 AM​  ​  ​ 3 AM​  ​  ​ 6 AM​  ​  ​ 9 AM​  ​  ​ 12 PM​  ​  ​ 3 PM​  ​  ​ 6 PM​  ​  ​ 9 PM​  ​  ​ 12 AM​  ​  ​ 3 AM​  ​  ​ 6 AM​  ​  ​ 9 AM​  ​  ​ 12 PM​  ​  ​ 3 PM​  ​  ​ 6 PM​  ​  ​ 9 PM​  ​  ​ 


Tue




73°
52°
​ Wed




75°
57°
​ Thu




81°
57°
​ Fri




81°
57°
​ Sat




81°
54°
​ Sun




84°
50°
​ Mon




84°
48°
​ Tue




73°
54°
​ 




The Weather Channel - Weather Underground - AccuWeather

  
  





 The 7-Day suggests strong cycling weather...


----------



## snapple10

heat wave


----------



## daigo

silent one said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's been too dry and too warm out here in California.  Needs more rain/snow so we can avoid the impending drought this year.


----------



## Silent One

daigo said:


> It's been too dry and too warm out here in California.  Needs more rain/snow so we can avoid the impending drought this year.


 
  
 I'm with you... we need rainfall BAD.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

its 10 degrees here.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> I'm with you... we need rainfall BAD.


 
 call over here - we have buckets of the stuff.


----------



## jc9394

Not bad here, it is 20s now but will be drop to teens next couple days.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> That looks like a traveling wave tube to me not SS Only good for microwave though.
> You SS I don't think so. If so How big of a amp do you want me to build you
> !00 watt 200 watt 500 watt per channel.
> Could make you a hybred  with a 6SN7 driving some MOSFETS to ween you off slowly.
> This way you won't have tube withdrawals .


 
  
  
 Me and SS?
  
 No way Glenn you know me better that that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 Music will be very boring without tubes..............
  
 12degC here and its 9:36 pm


----------



## 2359glenn

I still think we can ween you off with a nice hybred 
still will have the 6SN7s driving the MOSFETS with 100 watts per channel output


----------



## 2359glenn

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE


----------



## Silent One

"Happy New Year!" to you and yours...


----------



## longbowbbs

Happy New Year to all!


----------



## Clayton SF

Happy New Year!
 I'm leaving for Hawaii tomorrow morning at 8:30.
 Which means I'll be up at 5:30. Eek!


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> Happy New Year!
> I'm leaving for Hawaii tomorrow morning at 8:30.
> Which means I'll be up at 5:30. Eek!


 
 It is worth it for Hawaii...Have fun!


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Happy New Year!
> I'm leaving for Hawaii tomorrow morning at 8:30.
> Which means I'll be up at 5:30. Eek!


 
 mmmmmm.....Malasadas......


----------



## longbowbbs

Well, life just got interesting...
  
 I start off Cary-less. My amp has died...
  
 The right KT88 went Nova. It was something to see. The whole inside was glowing orange! It was quite a contrast next to the other 3.
  
 So, I ordered a complete new set of tubes. EH 6SN7's & 6922's, Winged C 5U4G's and the Tube Stores own house brand of KT88:
  
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/KT88-Tube-Types/Preferred-Series-KT88
  
 They arrived today. I put in the new tubes and set up everything for a starting BIAS calibration. Once everything had warmed up without any speaker or source connection as per the cary Biasing instructions I connected the Cary bias meter and it read....0....Absolutely nothing. No reading at all. Turn up the bias adjustment and no reaction on the meter from either side.
  
 All the tubes were glowing nicely. Everything outwardly looked normal.
  
 Shut off the amp and connected the speakers and sources. Turned the volume to 0 and turned the amp on. I set the bias at the previous tubes position.
  
 No sound from any source or from the headphone out. Once again I hooked up the bias meter and as before, no reaction to any adjustment. It simply read 0.
  
 So, I have a new box I ordered knowing I was going to send it in for some upgrades. Guess I'll get them done when they do the repair work. If I am going to spend $100 for shipping (or more!) and have the unit gone for 3-4 weeks, I might as well do the upgrades then.
  
 I am going to add the Kimber wire to the two Aux inputs (already have it on the CD input) Add in the 5 Hexfreds rectifiers. I already have the Jensen caps. I'll add the Greyhill selector and WBT binding posts. Essentially it will now be an F1 without the paint job.
  
 So I am a Solid State guy for a few weeks. And, when It does come back I have brand new tubes to put in. I am considering getting a set of matched 6550 Winged C's.....
  
 Time to make some lemonade from the lemons!


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm sorry to hear about your devastating light show. But you're right though: when life hands you a lemon, make a lemon *soufflé*.


----------



## 2359glenn

Can you filp the amp over remove bottom and take a picture and post it or pm it to me.
Maybe I can see what is wrong might be a burned resistor and I can walk you through fixing it.
If nothing else it will save you $200 in shipping. I walked someone through fixing there Leben 
that got burned up from a bad tube without ever seeing a Leben.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> Can you filp the amp over remove bottom and take a picture and post it or pm it to me.
> Maybe I can see what is wrong might be a burned resistor and I can walk you through fixing it.
> If nothing else it will save you $200 in shipping. I walked someone through fixing there Leben
> that got burned up from a bad tube without ever seeing a Leben.


 
 I appreciate that Glenn...As usual you are generous and amazing!
  
 I have 11 thumbs when it comes to that stuff. Since I was going to send it in anyway for the upgrades, I'll use this opportunity and get it all spec'd out at the factory for one shipping cost. I will open it up and take the picture tomorrow. I already had it packed but I have to open it to put the RMA paperwork in. I would be very interested to see what you think.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

HAPPY NEW YEARS@!#!


----------



## wotts

longbowbbs said:


> Well, life just got interesting...
> 
> I start off Cary-less. My amp has died...
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I'm sorry to hear about that boss. I'd be adding a bit of a kick to that lemonade...


----------



## 2359glenn

Be careful I here Carry is having financial problems.
When you get it fixed Just get a set of GE6550B tubes this will never happen with them
and they will last for ever.


----------



## dminches

Eric, did you check all the fuses?  I believe there are 3 of them.


----------



## longbowbbs

dminches said:


> Eric, did you check all the fuses?  I believe there are 3 of them.


 
 No David, I did not. I'll check that out when I unpack it tomorrow. Good suggestion!
  
 Glenn, I'll get a set of those GE's in. Nice to have some inventory!


----------



## longbowbbs

OK....I had to open it up...
  
 David, there are two tube fuses, both blown. 500mA/250VP fast blow. The fuses are connected to the Bias ports and to the KT88's. I am going to assume that the AC fuse is OK (3A slow blow 250V) since it powered up OK.
  
 The manual says they go when the output tubes are failing.
  
 Glenn, here are some pictures. Let me know if I need to get a close up to something.
  

  

  

  
 Maybe I can hold off on sending them in. I need to pick up some new fuses tomorrow. Any ideas on where to buy fuses? Small town America means I have Wal-Mart for tomorrow's option. Does that matter? I am not a DIY guy.
  
 I appreciate everyone's help!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

looks messy


----------



## snapple10

Not many options in our neck of the woods, Maybe also try Radio-Shack if you have one
GL


----------



## longbowbbs

dubstep girl said:


> looks messy


 
 Yep.....They have always looked like this. I think they first came out in 1998 or 1999. Same wiring scheme.


----------



## 2359glenn

Wal-Mart is not going to have those fuses
Do you have a Radio Shack near you they probably won't be open on new years day though.
some hardware stores might have them but they won't be open ether.


----------



## Clayton SF

But I bet it sounds clean! 
 You should see the inside of my Decware Mini Torii. It is quite the plate of spaghetti.


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> OK....I had to open it up...


 
 Jensen Oil Caps! Little pots of gold--nice!


----------



## 2359glenn

By looking at the pictures I can't see any damaged parts
Just change the fuses.
Strange that the fuse for the other side blue or did you switch the tubes and try it?


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> By looking at the pictures I can't see any damaged parts
> Just change the fuses.
> Strange that the fuse for the other side blue or did you switch the tubes and try it?


 
 I did not switch the tubes. No idea why they both went.
  
 It uses 1/4" X 1-1/4" 500mA/250V fuses. Looks like a 5 pack for $2......Does that sound right?
  
 Clayton, It also has Kimber Cable wiring for the subwoofer outputs and CD inputs....It is basically halfway to F1 status. The only thing I can't do it get it painted since they would have to take everything out.


----------



## 2359glenn

5 pack for $2 is good were was that near you


----------



## john57

longbowbbs said:


> OK....I had to open it up...
> 
> David, there are two tube fuses, both blown. 500mA/250VP fast blow. The fuses are connected to the Bias ports and to the KT88's. I am going to assume that the AC fuse is OK (3A slow blow 250V) since it powered up OK.
> 
> ...


 
  I have a local Radio shack store but my local Home Depot has quite a few of those glass tube fuses as well. You can check on the web for store inventory.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> 5 pack for $2 is good were was that near you


 
 That was Amazon, but it gives me perspective for a local buy....Basically, they are cheap. Not a lot in this hobby that is...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
  
 -25 tomorrow AM, but I need to get fuses!
  
 John57, thanks for the Home Depot suggestion. I will probably try them if Rat Shack is a bust.


----------



## 2359glenn

I forgot about home depot.
There is also Lowes they also will have these fuses.
these stores will be open on New Years day.


----------



## 2359glenn

HAPPY NEW YEAR it is 12:00 on the east cost


----------



## wotts

Happy New Year everyone! Well, east coast time.


----------



## rosgr63

*Happy NewYear!!*
  
 Eric, sorry about this damamge.
 I can see a burned out transistor, please check it out.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Happy New Year! 12 hours late for this time zone but I only just woke up.
 Sorry to hear about the amp problem, I hope changing the fuses fixes it and that Stavros is wrong, but I fear the worst.
 There should be a Tube Amp Electronics 101 course for those who have no idea what's happening inside, like myself


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> *Happy NewYear!!*
> 
> Eric, sorry about this damamge.
> I can see a burned out transistor, please check it out.
> ...


 
 Stavros, you have sharp eyes...Fortunately, that is not a resistor. It is a wad of some sticky stuff they use to adhere the Jensen cap to another part (or possible make sure they stay separated?)
  
 What about this grey round thing? Is it supposed to be part grey and part brown?


----------



## dminches

Eric, head over to Radio Shack if you have one and get the fuses.  That may solve things.  If there is something else wrong the fuses may blow again.  I wouldn't use your best tubes during this test!


----------



## longbowbbs

dminches said:


> Eric, head over to Radio Shack if you have one and get the fuses.  That may solve things.  If there is something else wrong the fuses may blow again.  I wouldn't use your best tubes during this test!


 
 so...I should put the 596's and the VT231's far away from the amp...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Where are those Sovtek's?


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> *Happy NewYear!!*
> 
> Eric, sorry about this damamge.
> I can see a burned out transistor, please check it out.


 

 I am not sure if that is a blown resistor or a burn on that capacitor?
 Can you take a close up picture of that capacitor.
 If that coupling capacitor is bad the output tube would lose bias and burn up.


----------



## longbowbbs

The capacitor is OK...that black smudge is a piece of dark glue. There is another one on the other side between the other black cap and the Jensen. It is a sticky black almost like a tar ball. It looks like it is some kind of spacer to keep the two caps separated but stuck together.


----------



## 2359glenn

longbowbbs said:


> The capacitor is OK...that black smudge is a piece of dark glue. There is another one on the other side between the other black cap and the Jensen. It is a sticky black almost like a tar ball. It looks like it is some kind of spacer to keep the two caps separated but stuck together.


 

 OK then it was just the tube went bad.
 Now you have to find fuses
 Maybe a auto supply but they are low amperage for anything in a car.
 Good luck
 I lived in the boonies in upstate NY and am still in the boonies in NC
 I have dial up internet no hi speed here.


----------



## john57

longbowbbs said:


> What about this grey round thing? Is it supposed to be part grey and part brown?


 
 That's a disk capacitor. you can see the outline of the bend wire.  Not a issue that I can see. Are some of the fuses in heat shrink tubing?


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > The capacitor is OK...that black smudge is a piece of dark glue. There is another one on the other side between the other black cap and the Jensen. It is a sticky black almost like a tar ball. It looks like it is some kind of spacer to keep the two caps separated but stuck together.
> ...


 
 I am definitely in the boonies....So, 50 miles round trip and 6 stores...No .5Ma fuses. Everything was 1A or more for cars. Another 145 miles round trip to the closest Radio Shack and I got their last 4 pack of .5mA/250V fast blow fuses ($3.50 for 4 fuses)
  
 Replace the fuses, put the tubes in and plug in everything. Power cord in....deep breath. Turn the unit on...All tubes come up as before.....wait 60 seconds before volume....
  
 SUCCESS!!!
  
 Now I am doing my intermittent Bias adjustments. I need to be around 75mA for the SLI-80...Initial readings were about 130mA....Things are now in line and I'll check it again in 30 minutes or so.
  
 So, 200 miles for a .90 part so that the $4000 tube amp will work....This is a crazy hobby!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 However, the BEST part is how fantastic everyone is here at 2359Glenn! This amp's current issues aside I have to express how much I appreciate this crew. I have discovered a great group of people I now am privileged to call friends! The community is the reason for the season.
  
 All the best to everyone for a wonderful 2014!
  
 Eric


----------



## longbowbbs

john57 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > What about this grey round thing? Is it supposed to be part grey and part brown?
> ...


 
 John I did not know there was such a thing as a disc capacitor. Apparently it is OK because things are happy again. I did pick up a couple of books on tube amps to start perusing. I don't know if that will be helpful or more confusing, but it just amazes me that all this stuff soldered together creates such a wonderful sound. 
  
 Thanks again for your help and suggestions!
  
 Eric


----------



## dminches

longbowbbs said:


> SUCCESS!!!
> 
> Now I am doing my intermittent Bias adjustments. I need to be around 75mA for the SLI-80...Initial readings were about 130mA....Things are now in line and I'll check it again in 30 minutes or so.




Great news. Those fuses generally do their job. 

In the future, turn the bias screws down all the way before you power up with different tubes. Once things are powered up you can turn up the bias and set it.


----------



## longbowbbs

dminches said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > SUCCESS!!!
> ...


 

 That is what I did when I put the new ones in David. I don't remember what I did the first time. They may have both already been blown from the tube flaming out.


----------



## rosgr63

Happy Ending Eric!
  
 Glenn started the remote repair suggestion and David identified the problem.
 That's very cool well done!


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Happy Ending Eric!
> 
> Glenn started the remote repair suggestion and David identified the problem.
> That's very cool well done!


 

 Nice to have my own team of experts to assess and diagnose any trouble!


----------



## magiccabbage

This is a very special thread indeed. Lots of good chat back and forth and i have to say that i have learned more here than on any other thread. Even when people from this thread are talking on other threads the content is always golden.


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> This is a very special thread indeed. Lots of good chat back and forth and i have to say that i have learned more here than on any other thread. Even when people from this thread are talking on other threads the content is always golden.


 
 It is our home on Head-Fi!


----------



## rosgr63

Blame Glenn...............again
  
 He started me on a new tube craze with the nice 6CG8 tubes and adapter he sent me for Christmas.
 Not to mention the wonderful 6082 decade counter.
  
 Just as I thought I was getting cured from my tube addiction.
  
 I can't see many builders offering repair tips to equipment not even made by them.
 Then again Glenn is very unique, my audio life would be very dull without him.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Blame Glenn...............again
> 
> He started me on a new tube craze with the nice 6CG8 tubes and adapter he sent me for Christmas.
> Not to mention the wonderful 6082 decade counter.
> ...


 

 Typeo  6CG8 = 6C8G
             6082 = 6802
  
 Yes I have been a bad boy again giving Stavros more tubes.


----------



## rosgr63

Indeed, thanks Glenn the right tubes are 6802 and 6C8G.


----------



## longbowbbs

OK kids...The hot chocolate is ready and the tubes are hot!


----------



## parbaked

Thats 10:00 AM?
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 (We'll be mid 60's in SF today)


----------



## longbowbbs

parbaked said:


> Thats 10:00 AM?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes...It is 10:00 AM....Bright sunny day too!


----------



## daigo

Tubes do make for excellent hand warmers.  That's pretty cold up there!


----------



## Wapiti

-20F here this morning (just east of the Twin Cities, St. Croix River Valley).  Longbowbbs easily still wins however.
  
 -15F predicted as the _high _temperature for Monday.


----------



## longbowbbs

wapiti said:


> -20F here this morning (just east of the Twin Cities, St. Croix River Valley).  Longbowbbs easily still wins however.
> 
> -15F predicted as the _high _temperature for Monday.


 
 Hey! I grew up in Stillwater....I still get back there occasionally.


----------



## Wapiti




----------



## Silent One

All this Cold Weather chat makes me wanna close
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the window.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> This is a very special thread indeed. Lots of good chat back and forth and i have to say that i have learned more here than on any other thread. Even when people from this thread are talking on other threads the content is always golden.


 
  





 _This thread's creation was no accident... we believe in each other. Some threads will pull at your ankles.... and run off _



_with your sneakers._


----------



## rosgr63

Well said SO.
 I hope none of Glenn's amps end up with some maker who would copy his design and circuit and sell them at a premium.
 That would be very unethical and unfair.


----------



## 2359glenn

I got ripped off enough when I was in the hospital for 7 weeks


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> I got ripped off enough when I was in the hospital for 7 weeks


 
 how?


----------



## rosgr63

I can see why some people were so eager to order your amps but I don't want to say more in public, please keep calm.
  
 We have a long way to go still my friend.


----------



## rosgr63

Discussing with Glenn another rectifier option for his OTLs, just another idea that might work.
 I am not revealing more at this stage just a photo.


----------



## Blackmore

They look very alike 300B, very sexy tubes mate.
  
  
  
 Quote:


rosgr63 said:


> Discussing with Glenn another rectifier option for his OTLs, just another idea that might work.
> I am not revealing more at this stage just a photo.


----------



## GrindingThud

I bet that has a nice glow to it...... 



rosgr63 said:


> Discussing with Glenn another rectifier option for his OTLs, just another idea that might work.
> I am not revealing more at this stage just a photo.


----------



## Silent One

Brimar 5R4GY?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

looks alot like RCA 5R4GY


----------



## GrindingThud

83?


----------



## rosgr63

blackmore said:


>





> They look very alike 300B, very sexy tubes mate.


 
  
 Indeed, nice looking, tall, slender and curvy!
 Please don't start me up you bad boy...............
  


silent one said:


> Brimar 5R4GY?


 
  
 Its a Brimar, but not a 5R4GY.
 I am not a copy cat the 5R4GY has been mentioned before.
  


grindingthud said:


> 83?


 
  
 No


----------



## Neogeo333

Saw them the other day, 5Z3?  the little metal pin on the bakelite base gave them up.


----------



## rosgr63

Well done George!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Look what I got today for Glenn, Stavros and myself.
  

  
 I also scored a NOS 6SN7GTA Ken-Rad but need to look it up first made by GE (188-5 code. 1952, week 13)
 Is it any good?


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> Look what I got today for Glenn, Stavros and myself.
> 
> 
> 
> I also scored a NOS 6SN7GTA Ken-Rad but need to look it up first


 
 very nice


----------



## Neogeo333

Hi Stavros, now it means Glenn need to make some 4 pin to 8 pins adapter for it? Keep us posted if it works.


----------



## rosgr63

Great job Lieven, well done, they look fantastic!
  
 Thank you.


----------



## rosgr63

neogeo333 said:


> Hi Stavros, now it means Glenn need to make some 4 pin to 8 pins adapter for it? Keep us posted if it works.


 
  
 Hi George, I have been using them for sometime now, one of my other amps uses them and I already have a few.
  
 Now I am going to try them with an adapter with my Glenn OTLs.


----------



## dminches

Lieven, how much did you pay per pair?  Just curious.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

gonna be putting some of my headphones for sale soon, thinking of leaving head-fi altogether once i get enough money for my car. i really can't stand the community or the staff here anymore.
  
  
  
  
 i just wished i moved on sooner, i have tons of tubes that are going to take forever to sell and some that will only lose money because they aren't worth that much.


----------



## rosgr63

Pull yourself together lass.
  
 When the going gets tough the tough get going.
  
 I hope none of the Glenn fans have upset you.
 We need people like you in our little community.
  
 Plenty tubes to evaluate and more amps to enjoy, you can't leave us now.


----------



## Silent One

I guess we're on "Dub-watch." I really hope our valued and emerging member reconsiders...


----------



## Ultrainferno

dubstep girl said:


> i really can't stand the community or the staff here anymore.


 
  
 that's the mean reason I almost only post in this thread anymore


----------



## Blackmore

Just be selective, thats the part of the game. The rest is just the rest, leave it there.
  
  
  
 Quote:


dubstep girl said:


> gonna be putting some of my headphones for sale soon, thinking of leaving head-fi altogether once i get enough money for my car. i really can't stand the community or the staff here anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> gonna be putting some of my headphones for sale soon, thinking of leaving head-fi altogether once i get enough money for my car. i really can't stand the community or the staff here anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Don't, I did it once and came back.  I just read more than I post now and not buying and selling gears as much anymore.  
  
 At the very least, keep the MKII and couple of your best headphones.  Just in case, you know who to pm if the MKII need a place to sleep.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> gonna be putting some of my headphones for sale soon, thinking of leaving head-fi altogether once i get enough money for my car. i really can't stand the community or the staff here anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
 nooooooooooooooo


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ultrainferno said:


> that's the mean reason I almost only post in this thread anymore


 
  
 seems that only the woo and glenn threads get left alone these days. for now i will simplify a bit and simply come to read up on new headphone and gear releases, but try to be less active across the site. i also haven't listened to headphones as much as i used to due to work.
  


jc9394 said:


> Don't, I did it once and came back.  I just read more than I post now and not buying and selling gears as much anymore.
> 
> At the very least, keep the MKII and couple of your best headphones.  Just in case, you know who to pm if the MKII need a place to sleep.


 
  
 yeah i plan on keeping the MKII.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> gonna be putting some of my headphones for sale soon, thinking of leaving head-fi altogether once i get enough money for my car. i really can't stand the community or the staff here anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You can stay on this thread most all the people here are good people we are a little weird at times but never mean.
 Sometimes someone that is a jerk wonders in we just ignore the person.
 I do less then I used to do I used to help people with amp problems no more unless it is someone from this thread.
 Do you still have JC's amp ?   If not I can make you one Cheep and I know You still have a set of really good tubes
 that will work in it.  The 5998 sounds great with the 5998mod running them at there proper bias.
  
 I don't know what is wrong with people. If some one didn't like you selling tubes they just didn't have to buy them.
 Why make a big deal out of nothing.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> You can stay on this thread most all the people here are good people we are a little weird at times but never mean.
> Sometimes someone that is a jerk wonders in we just ignore the person.
> I do less then I used to do I used to help people with amp problems no more unless it is someone from this thread.
> Do you still have JC's amp ?   If not I can make you one Cheep and I know You still have a set of really good tubes
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> I don't know what is wrong with people.
> Why make a big deal out of nothing.


 
 This thread is a really nice place. It doesn't feel like the rest of HF...
 I have stopped following any other "non-picture" threads.
 I know there are a lot of jerks on other threads but it is the moderators' behavior that confuses me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

You're not the only one struggling with it DG, so hang in there.  In the end we can only trust our gut feeling.  If the frustration is outweighing what you are getting out of the community you can only do what is right for yourself.  The hobby is about having fun and feeling good, not being frustrated and resentful.  I have lost sight of that myself, and it is a sad place to be, especially for people like us who love music so much.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> You can stay on this thread most all the people here are good people we are a *little weird* at times but never mean.
> 
> 
> I don't know what is wrong with people. If some one didn't like you selling tubes they just didn't have to buy them.
> Why make a big deal out of nothing.


 
  
 If you are referring to me I admit I am a tube addict and crazy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










  
 What some people say is if somebody bought a tube at $1 sometime ago, they must sell it at $0.80, even if it costs $300 now................
 Nobody is forced to buy anything.
  
 People who sell here are more trustworthy than the average faceless ebay seller.
  
 I think DSG should stay active.
 We are friends here and would be more than happy to help.


----------



## rnadell

rosgr63 said:


> If you are referring to me I admit I am a tube addict and crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> You can stay on this thread most all the people here are good people we are a little weird at times but never mean.
> Sometimes someone that is a jerk wonders in we just ignore the person.
> I do less then I used to do I used to help people with amp problems no more unless it is someone from this thread.
> Do you still have JC's amp ?   If not I can make you one Cheep and I know You still have a set of really good tubes
> ...




Its seems like i can mostly only post on woo and glenn and some of the tube threads without people coming after me. Is mostly people from the cavalli/eddie current side of things and some of the other head fiers that dont really talk to us.

I still have JCs amp, im planning on shipping it back sometime this month since i dont have tubes for it anymore. I need to take a bit of a break from tubes especially now that i need to get a new car. I never intended to sell them at first, i wanted a nice collection to roll on the woo amps as well as yours.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Oops just pressed enter a ton of times cause it wouldnt load.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

.


----------



## magiccabbage

what happened there.


----------



## Ultrainferno

At least now we know why she's getting all the heat: she's a big time spammer


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> If you are referring to me I admit I am a tube addict and crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I was referring to all of us remember the boat.
 Just silly stuff but we had fun doing it.


----------



## jc9394

DG, working on the post counts?  You can keep the amp longer if you want to.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> Its seems like i can mostly only post on woo and glenn and some of the tube threads without people coming after me. Is mostly people from the cavalli/eddie current side of things and some of the other head fiers that dont really talk to us.
> 
> I still have JCs amp, im planning on shipping it back sometime this month since i dont have tubes for it anymore. I need to take a bit of a break from tubes especially now that i need to get a new car. I never intended to sell them at first, i wanted a nice collection to roll on the woo amps as well as yours.


 
 Snobs that think there amps are better then anybody else amps.  They are to good to talk to us oh well they might learn something
 if they listen to what some of us lowlifes have to say.  
  
 I am building David a amp that will blow any of those amps out of the water.
  
 There are people on this thread that have very expensive amps just don't brag about it and are not snobby about anything.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> I am building David a amp that will blow any of those amps out of the water.


 
  
 Please do tell more Glenn, or David. I'm curious now!


----------



## Silent One

What.... no one knew DG was a video gamer?!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> What.... no one knew DG was a video gamer?!


 
  
  
 i know, saw her three monitors setup pics somewhere.  i'm a gamer too but with ps4...


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Please do tell more Glenn, or David. I'm curious now!


 

 C3g driving a 300B with all Lundahl transformers the best transformers avilable.


----------



## Ultrainferno

oh, like mine but the improved version. Mine already sounds great!


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> C3g driving a 300B with all Lundahl transformers the best transformers avilable.


 
  
  
 My next amp?


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> C3g driving a 300B with all Lundahl transformers the best transformers avilable.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> C3g driving a 300B with all Lundahl transformers the best transformers avilable.


 
 Hi Glenn,
 I really look forward to seeing pics of the new 300B.
 Let's continue our PMs when you have time to contemplate some new builds...no hurry but I would like to get in line when convenient...
 I just ordered some HD600 so I have more options amp-wise. 
 S


----------



## magiccabbage

speaking of gaming does anyone here play Mech Warrior online??


----------



## john57

magiccabbage said:


> speaking of gaming does anyone here play Mech Warrior online??


 
 Well, Well I did enjoy that game long ago. Is there a standalone version of the game that will run on Win7 64bit? I heard that you can download the game from itunes but I am not going to install that. I think I still have that Microsoft joy stick somewhere collecting dust.


----------



## magiccabbage

john57 said:


> Well, Well I did enjoy that game long ago. Is there a standalone version of the game that will run on Win7 64bit? I heard that you can download the game from itunes but I am not going to install that. I think I still have that Microsoft joy stick somewhere collecting dust.


 
 dunno if it can run on that but it should, it wouldn't play smoothly on my laptop because of my graphics card, but its fine on the PC. 
  
 Mechwarrior online is brilliant - really really good. fav game at the moment.


----------



## daigo

2359glenn said:


> C3g driving a 300B with all Lundahl transformers the best transformers avilable.


 
  
 Also really intrigued by this combination.


----------



## GrindingThud

I used to play TF2....then I discovered head-fi and dug my soldering iron back out. This and a handful of Woo threads make up the few I follow....and of course the DIY threads on the " forbidden dark side"


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> DG, working on the post counts?  You can keep the amp longer if you want to.


 
  
 lol yeah page wouldn't load and i clicked post like a lot of times.
  
 I've been wanting to return the amp since I haven't used it cause I have no 6sn7 tubes now.
 Pm me later so I can get the info to send back


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> oh, like mine but the improved version. Mine already sounds great!


 
 Yes just the transformers cost what your whole amp cost.
 Other then the transformers the electronics will be almost the same.
 These transformers can be wired for 36ohm perfect for the LCD-2/3
 with a perfect match.
 Just received a Greenlee punch that will make the right size hole for
 the cathode current meters.


----------



## john57

Greenlee punch? Very nice!


----------



## dminches

Those greenlee punches are way cool.


----------



## rosgr63

Can you use them for anything else but David's meters?
  
 I have some ideas that you'd like................
  
 BTW is Clayton back?
 I am waiting for the Aulani tube photos, I hope he got some.


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Can you use them for anything else but David's meters?
> 
> I have some ideas that you'd like................
> 
> ...


 




 Yes..... waiting for him to surface. I bet Mother Dear cooked up a storm, complete with CNN i-reporters.


----------



## rosgr63

I can't wait any longer, here is the famous Hawaiian Tube collection


----------



## Ultrainferno

Wouldn't you like these tubes more?


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Wouldn't you like these tubes more?


 
    I suppose you need a amp to put them in ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

That could come in handy Glenn, yes


----------



## rosgr63

Nice, very nice tubes Lieven.
  
 I posted the wrong photos so sorry, here are the right ones


----------



## Ultrainferno

Is anyone else seeing the Glenn thread in a completely messed layout?

Those tubes look great Stavros. Fancy!


----------



## rosgr63

My Hawaiian photos have messed everything up.
  
 It's all about gravity........


----------



## Ultrainferno

Delete them?


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> Is anyone else seeing the Glenn thread in a completely messed layout?
> 
> Those tubes look great Stavros. Fancy!


 
  
  
 I thought it is just me, should stop drinking this early...


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> Is anyone else seeing the Glenn thread in a completely messed layout?
> 
> Those tubes look great Stavros. Fancy!


 
  
 I know, the kids like them too, see the smile on their faces.........


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > Is anyone else seeing the Glenn thread in a completely messed layout?
> ...


 
 I reported it. Must have happened after the update last hour...


----------



## rosgr63

You mean it wasn't my Hawaiian Tube collection?
  
 WOW what a relief.........


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I reported it. Must have happened after the update last hour...


 
  
 Crap, I thought I was drinking some good beers.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I should do a group buy for Belgian Beer!


----------



## Silent One

While I don't drink beer, maybe I could redeem
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in Reims?
  
  





 The squeezed layout is beginning to make my eyes twitch...


----------



## daigo

ultrainferno said:


> I should do a group buy for Belgian Beer!


 
  
 I would be interested!  Find me some Cantillon!


----------



## 2359glenn

Does anyone else have everything
 squeezed to the right?
 only on this thred?


----------



## Eee Pee

Yes, mine is not right.  Seems only this thread.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I suspect one of the recent photos, or the way it was embedded, has exposed a bug in the site's CSS code.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> I suspect one of the recent photos, or the way it was embedded, has exposed a bug in the site's CSS code.


 

 How do I fix it ?
 Is yours the same way?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

glenn thread is broken.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> glenn thread is broken.


 

 I have to find out who to contact to get it fixed


----------



## GrindingThud

Looks ok on my ipad in mobile format...
Edit.....dooooooh, desktop format is definitely wonky.


----------



## Wapiti

dubstep girl said:


> gonna be putting some of my headphones for sale soon, thinking of leaving head-fi altogether once i get enough money for my car. i really can't stand the community or the staff here anymore.
> 
> i just wished i moved on sooner, i have tons of tubes that are going to take forever to sell and some that will only lose money because they aren't worth that much.


 
 It is both very unfortunate you feel this way and have these experiences.  Such behavior should never occur.
  
 Do not give up an activity you enjoy merely because some of its practitioners are jerks.
  
 I am, however, finding this ironic.  I would not know of this issue other than others quoting this post.  Dubstep Girl is the only member here on my ignore list and has been for well over a year.  This was due to highly inappropriate, immature off-topic DG posts directed at a number of posters with which she disagreed.
  
 I do not delight in DG's recent experiences and am saddened by them.  But this does remind all of us that our behaviors matter and have real impacts on others.  
  
 It is also occasionally a good learning opportunity to experience both sides of an issue.
  
 I join in the congratulations and acknowledgment of the excellent attitudes and posters in this thread.  The recent amp repair discussion is a wonderful example.
  
 Again, do not abandon an enjoyed activity merely because of a few bad experiences.  There are jerks everywhere.  Do not give them any power.
  
 Best wishes to all.
  
 (No, I will not discuss or further reopen the past.  There is no benefit in doing so.  I mention it only for balance and context.)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lol i barely remember to be honest. that probably was back when i would argue in the sound science forum, i decided to stop visiting that because everyone thinks they're right and it got annoying.

but also back then, i had very low post counts and didn't really care much cause i was new. 

and its not that just some "practitioners are jerks" but that also the staff here isn't always fair or just. not to go into some of the more controversial topics, but its a bit of everything that makes me want to leave head-fi. Part of me does want to kind of move on and just be done, but also theres other factors at play. i try to stay away from threads which seem to cause alot of debate or where other head-fiers here that don't like me tend to hang around. After my recent experience with my tube selling thread and the way the staff handled it. As well as seeing how a few head-fiers complaining about me started a huge debate and despite my efforts to explain, I was left with the decision to either humiliate myself by explaining how much I paid for everything and putting everything up for lower prices, or to simply not sell them. As for the tubes, it was only a few that where brought into question, but I would have to explain everything and my thread was temporarily hidden during all this. 

This all said, I am looking forward to moving on.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> How do I fix it ?
> Is yours the same way?


 

 I think we'll have to wait for the admins to look at it.
  
 Or folks who posted pictures today could try deleting them and re-saving the post.  If the image is larger than what the CSS code is designed to cope with it can cause crazy formatting issues like this.


----------



## parbaked

dubstep girl said:


> This all said, I am looking forward to moving on.


 
 There is nothing wrong with moving on! I am certain that someone as bright and articulate as you can find many rewarding things to do with your time...
 Just don't let the jerks get in the way of you enjoying what you should enjoy about headphones, music and like-minded friends.


----------



## Silent One

eee pee said:


> Yes, mine is not right.  Seems only this thread.


 
  
 Every time I see you avi, I wanna spin vinyl...


----------



## Silent One

Maybe the formatting issue will get resolved tonight in time for new pix; I'm in the mood to shoot! Where's my Nikon?!
  
 With dinner now just out of the way, time for a slice of Japanese pound cake and milk.
  
 Followed by a bowl of Jasmine Dragon Pearls a few hours later. If any of you are nearby, feel free to join me!
  
  
 Update.: Currawong has acknowledged the problem and says the problem should be fixed soon! (not his area)


----------



## wotts

I do have to say, this odd formatting makes it easy to hide what is on my screen here at work.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> I should do a group buy for Belgian Beer!


 
  
 Now you are talking.............
  


2359glenn said:


> I have to find out who to contact to get it fixed


 
  
  
 It wasn't me Glenn, honestly it wasn't me..........
  


wapiti said:


> It is both very unfortunate you feel this way and have these experiences.  Such behavior should never occur.
> 
> Do not give up an activity you enjoy merely because some of its practitioners are jerks.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Your post shows a honest person.
 I too have upset unintentionally some people who turned out to become great friends later.
  It takes a good person to forgive and forget, and a good person to admit a mistake.
  


wotts said:


> I do have to say, this odd formatting makes it easy to hide what is on my screen here at work.


 
  
 Do you mean my tube photos are offensive?


----------



## Blackmore

Seem fixed now, good.
  
 THX


----------



## rosgr63

No more tube photos from me..........
  
 But Lieven with his tube photos is making hard for me not to.


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> I suspect one of the recent photos, or the way it was embedded, has exposed a bug in the site's CSS code.


 
  
 Seems this comment was on the money.


----------



## rosgr63

My photos are usually of the same format and uploaded the same way I have done for years now.
  
 Good thing it happened and was sorted out so swiftly so it won't occur again.


----------



## wotts

rosgr63 said:


> Do you mean my tube photos are offensive?


 
  
 No, no!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I do love to see all the new tubes everyone is trying. When I finally decide on my next amp, I'll be sure to look at everyone has used.


----------



## Silent One

I got some new ear pads for my HE-6. Was gonna take a new pix and then...... the milk & cake started to digest _s-l-o-w-l-y _and then... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the Nikon was nowhere to be found. Either that or I couldn't move.


----------



## rosgr63

wotts said:


> No, no!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Joking aside, the tube photos I post are of my own tubes which I use with my amps.
 These last ones can also be used in Glenn's OTLs.
 Problem is I am hooked on the 3DG4 and don't know when I'll try these fancy ones.
  
 Glenn has cured me from tube rolling but not tube collecting yet............


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Joking aside, the tube photos I post are of my own tubes which I use with my amps.
> These last ones can also be used in Glenn's OTLs.
> Problem is I am hooked on the 3DG4 and don't know when I'll try these fancy ones.
> 
> *Glenn has cured me from tube rolling but not tube collecting yet............*


 
  





 Some kind a talent that 2359glenn! First, the studio. And now he's opened up a clinic? Great stuff!


----------



## Ultrainferno

The 3DG4 seem hard to find here, bummer.
 Stavros, you'll have your tubes around wednesday if all goes well
  
 and fyi, we didn't mess up the thread with our pics, lots of threads were affected by the board having issues. So keep on posting those tube pictures


----------



## rosgr63

Great news, thanks very much, that's way too fast!!!!!!!
  
 I know but I was going to blame Clayton and the Hawaiian tubes.................


----------



## wotts

I'll have to dig out the tube hoard this weekend and snap some photos. I still need to find out what all is in it too.


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I'll have to dig out the tube hoard this weekend and snap some photos. I still need to find out what all is in it too.


 
  
 Better than Halloween.... let's look in the box!


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> The 3DG4 seem hard to find here, bummer.
> Stavros, you'll have your tubes around wednesday if all goes well
> 
> and fyi, we didn't mess up the thread with our pics, lots of threads were affected by the board having issues. So keep on posting those tube pictures


 
  
 YES, for those of us waiting in the dark (in between sessions).... moar pix, please!


----------



## rosgr63

That'll be great!
  
 If you need any help we can arrange it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

silent one said:


> YES, for those of us waiting in the dark (in between sessions).... moar pix, please!


 
  
  

  
 I just like the pic, the tube is not that special


----------



## rosgr63

wotts said:


> I'll have to dig out the tube hoard this weekend and snap some photos. I still need to find out what all is in it too.


 
 That'll be great!!!
  
 If you need any help we can arrange it.
  
 Is Santa revisiting?


----------



## Silent One

Hidden treasures long forgotten.... I should ring his doorbell Saturday with a pizza!


----------



## wotts

rosgr63 said:


> That'll be great!!!
> 
> If you need any help we can arrange it.
> 
> Is Santa revisiting?


 
  
  


silent one said:


> Hidden treasures long forgotten.... I should ring his doorbell Saturday with a pizza!


 
  
  
 You all are welcome to come! Bubbly or beer provided. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I estimate 4000 tubes. We'll see how close I get.


----------



## Silent One

WOWZA!!!


----------



## rosgr63

No cookies?


----------



## wotts

I can do cookies. Rather, I'll convince my sister to make some. She likes that domestic stuff.


----------



## Silent One

Um.... before I book anything, I better get the "7 Day." Might be too cold for da kidd!!!
  
  
Kalamazoo, MI
Thursday
Chance of Snow




25
°F | °C

 Precipitation: 40%
 Humidity: 78%
 Wind: 9 mph
Temperature​ Precipitation​
Wind​





 
    4 AM​  ​  ​ 7 AM​  ​  ​ 10 AM​  ​  ​ 1 PM​  ​  ​ 4 PM​  ​  ​ 7 PM​  ​  ​ 10 PM​  ​  ​ 1 AM​  ​  ​ 4 AM​  ​  ​ 7 AM​  ​  ​ 10 AM​  ​  ​ 1 PM​  ​  ​ 4 PM​  ​  ​ 7 PM​  ​  ​ 10 PM​  ​  ​ 1 AM​  ​  ​ 4 AM​  ​  ​ 7 AM​  ​  ​ 10 AM​  ​  ​ 1 PM​  ​  ​ 4 PM​  ​  ​ 7 PM​  ​  ​ 10 PM​  ​  ​ 1 AM​  ​  ​ 4 AM​  ​  ​ 7 AM​  ​  ​ 10 AM​  ​  ​ 1 PM​  ​  ​ 4 PM​  ​  ​ 7 PM​  ​  ​ 10 PM​  ​  ​ 1 AM​  ​  ​ 4 AM​  ​  ​ 7 AM​  ​  ​ 10 AM​  ​  ​ 1 PM​  ​  ​ 4 PM​  ​  ​ 7 PM​  ​  ​ 10 PM​  ​  ​ 1 AM​  ​  ​ 4 AM​  ​  ​ 7 AM​  ​  ​ 10 AM​  ​  ​ 1 PM​  ​  ​ 4 PM​  ​  ​ 7 PM​  ​  ​ 10 PM​  ​  ​ 1 AM​  ​  ​ 4 AM​  ​  ​ 7 AM​  ​  ​ 10 AM​  ​  ​ 1 PM​  ​  ​ 4 PM​  ​  ​ 7 PM​  ​  ​ 10 PM​  ​  ​ 1 AM​  ​  ​ 4 AM​  ​  ​ 7 AM​  ​  ​ 10 AM​  ​  ​ 1 PM​  ​  ​ 4 PM​  ​  ​ 7 PM​  ​  ​ 10 PM​  ​  ​ 1 AM​  ​  ​ 4 AM​  ​  ​ 7 AM​  ​  ​ 10 AM​  ​  ​ 1 PM​  ​  ​ 4 PM​  ​  ​ 7 PM​  ​  ​ 10 PM​  ​  ​ 1 AM​  ​  ​ 4 AM​  ​  ​ 7 AM​  ​  ​ 10 AM​  ​  ​ 1 PM​  ​  ​ 4 PM​  ​  ​ 7 PM​  ​  ​ 10 PM​  ​ 


 Thu




25°
21°
​ Fri




39°
37°
​ Sat




43°
28°
​ Sun




34°
32°
​ Mon




41°
12°
​ Tue




34°
25°
​ Wed




30°
21°
​ Thu




32°
19°
​


----------



## wotts

It's a balmy 7F (-14C) here right now. Not as cold as it was Monday/Tuesday, nor what our Minnesotian friend experienced, but chilly nonetheless.


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> It's a balmy 7F (-14C) here right now. Not as cold as it was Monday/Tuesday, nor what our Minnesotian friend experienced, but chilly nonetheless.


 






 I've been hearing from him more frequently lately.... this is good!


----------



## Silent One

HiFiMAN HE-6. Baby got new Scooter Pies (Lawton Audio ear pads).


----------



## Ultrainferno

I get "No image available"


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> I get "No image available"


 





 Love the avatar! Will re-post shortly....


----------



## rosgr63

I too like you avatar Ultra.
  
 I received my quad Raytheon RK60's but I won't be able to use them.
 They are NIB's.
 My brain says "open the boxes" but my heart says "don't you dare"!
  
 I need help.......


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Very nice pic SO!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Very nice pic SO!


 
  
 Thanks. At first I thought it would take a week or so adapting to wearing the new pads. But within the hour it seemed as if I had been wearing them all along.


----------



## 2359glenn

Some pictures that will make our friend David drool while waiting for me to finish.


----------



## Ultrainferno

That looks amazing! Love the new cases too Glenn, all black is nice. Or is that a special case David had built for him?
 Personally I would have just chosen different volume/input selectors (and high spikes), but man does this amp look perfect. Bet it sounds incredible!


----------



## longbowbbs

Gorgeous! What tubes is it using?


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> Some pictures that will make our friend David drool while waiting for me to finish.




Wow. That is the nicest looking amp I have ever seen!

Thank you Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Wow. That is the nicest looking amp I have ever seen!
> 
> Thank you Glenn.


 

 Thanks David


----------



## 2359glenn

longbowbbs said:


> Gorgeous! What tubes is it using?


 

 C3g driver , 300B outputs , PY500/42EC4 TV damper diodes for rectifiers


----------



## Skylab

Wow, David that is an impressive looking amp coming your way! Glenn, bravo.


----------



## magiccabbage

mother of god - that is a beauty, Is it just for planars or speakers?   
  
 Is that 3 lundahl transformers?


----------



## prosperone

2359glenn said:


> C3g driver , 300B outputs , PY500/42EC4 TV damper diodes for rectifiers


 

 Very nice!  What types of 300b are in contention?


----------



## 2359glenn

prosperone said:


> Very nice!  What types of 300b are in contention?


 

 KR 300B Balloon


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> mother of god - that is a beauty, Is it just for planars or speakers?
> 
> Is that 3 lundahl transformers?


 

 Just for planners.
 And yes 3 Lundahl transformers  one power and two output


----------



## dminches

It is 2 output transformers a a power transformer. And it is just for planars. I may have to get a pair of HE-6 to go with my LCD-3s.


----------



## parbaked

dminches said:


> I may have to MUST get a pair of HE-6 to go with my LCD-3s.


 
 FTFY!
 Enjoy, she's a beauty....


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> It is 2 output transformers a a power transformer. And it is just for planars. I may have to get a pair of HE-6 to go with my LCD-3s.


 

 It will be able to drive any headphone


----------



## rosgr63

Beautiful Glenn, well done!
 David you are very lucky my friend.
  
 BTW the 300B on the photo from what I can see are JJ300B, but David has some KR300B Balloons.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> It will be able to drive any headphone


 
 I like the sound of that, I wonder will it sound as good for HD800 as the OTL does?


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> It will be able to drive any headphone


 
 I wonder how it will sound for high impedance compared to the OTL


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn. That is a beautiful amp!
  
 I've returned from Hawaii. Here is the view from my mother's home. It's good to be back in SF.


----------



## daigo

clayton sf said:


> Glenn. That is a beautiful amp!
> 
> I've returned from Hawaii. Here is the view from my mother's home. It's good to be back in SF.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is an amazing view from the balcony.


----------



## rosgr63

Welcome back Clayton, I am sure you had a great time.
 The view form from your mother's home looks great.
 But where are the Aulani tube photos?
 Don't tell me you didn't take any.............
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 David's amp looks so nice, I bet it sounds better than some other amps costing 15K or so.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Glenn. That is a beautiful amp!
> 
> I've returned from Hawaii. Here is the view from my mother's home. It's good to be back in SF.


 
  
  
 Very nice Clayton, I wanna to go to Hawaii.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn said:


> Some pictures that will make our friend David drool while waiting for me to finish.


 
  
 Very nice looking amp...
  
 Just curious Glenn, I don't see any inductor.  Do you use an RC filter to smooth out DC ripples or RLC (with inductors hide inside)?


----------



## Clayton SF

Who makes those large meters? Do they light up?


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn. That is a beautiful amp!
> ...


 
  
 Welcome back Clayton! The views from mother dear's home have me _day dreaming_




_sweetly._...
  
 PA speaker: "Back to work Silent One!"
 SO:


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> That looks amazing! Love the new cases too Glenn, all black is nice. Or is that a special case David had built for him?
> Personally I would have just chosen different volume/input selectors (and high spikes), but man does this amp look perfect. Bet it sounds incredible!


 

  





 I'm diggin' the All Black Edition!


----------



## john57

Glenn,
  
 Great layout on David's amp. The transformers look more cool and more professional.


----------



## jc9394

I think I may get one just for the look of the meters.

Glenn, can you move the meter to the front panel? A nice SA pot will be good too.


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> Very nice looking amp...
> 
> Just curious Glenn, I don't see any inductor.  Do you use an RC filter to smooth out DC ripples or RLC (with inductors hide inside)?


 

 The chokes are under the chassis No R  CLC for each channel did not want the voltage drop
 of the R. And don't really need the heat produced by resistors.


----------



## Silent One

Clever...


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> I think I may get one just for the look of the meters.
> 
> Glenn, can you move the meter to the front panel? A nice SA pot will be good too.


 

 I can get smaller meters and mount them on the front panel.
 What do you mean by SA pot?
 It has a gold point stepped attenuator I think that is the best you can get.


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Who makes those large meters? Do they light up?


 

 The meters were made in USA by Yokogawa.
 They do not light up I suppose I can get ones that do.


----------



## rnadell

Just got great news, I am next up for an amp.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> I can get smaller meters and mount them on the front panel.
> What do you mean by SA pot?
> It has a gold point stepped attenuator I think that is the best you can get.




Yes, I love the gold point stepped attenuator with my beta22.


----------



## GrindingThud

I just love the HV wires from the xformer to the diodes....looks great...nice artistic touch.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> The meters were made in USA by Yokogawa.
> They do not light up I suppose I can get ones that do.


 
 I cant wait to hear what it sounds like on HD800


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Yes, I love the gold point stepped attenuator with my beta22.


 
 I was going to let Corey upgrade my beta22 to a Goldpoint SA as well. That is until I had to replace my iMac and also buy RT plane ticket to Hawaii.


----------



## jc9394

Ticket to Hawaii is way more important than GP.

DG is going ship the OTL back to me, should get it before the weekend. Can't wait to see how well it pair with HD800.


----------



## rnadell

My Glenn otl will be on the way in the near future, any suggestions
 for affordable driver and a couple of output tubes to get started?
 I would like to have the amp before I spend a lot on tubes. thanks


----------



## Silent One

rnadell said:


> Just got great news, I am next up for an amp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rnadell said:


> My Glenn otl will be on the way in the near future, any suggestions
> for affordable driver and a couple of output tubes to get started?
> I would like to have the amp before I spend a lot on tubes. thanks




Tung sol 5998 / western electric 421a or gec 6as7g.

Gec bl63 or ts 6f8g


----------



## rosgr63

Wrong recommendation.
 madell doesn't want to spend a lot on tubes. 
 If he doesn't have the 5998 mod he will not get the full benefit from these tubes.
  
 Tung-Sol 6F8G plus adapter $60.
 Tung-Sol 5990 $150-$200 for a pair.
 WE421 or MOV 6AS7G $400 for a pair.
  
 I wouldn't exactly call that cheap.
  
 Remember Glenn's goal is to get the best performance out of cheap tubes.
  
 My recommendation based on madell's request is:
  
 Driver: Sylvania 6SN7 chrome top or Tung-Sol 6SN7 (not round plates) at $20max
 Rectifier: 3DG4/5AU4 $15
 Output: RCA 6AS7G $60 for a pair.
  
 Madell will get a great sounding amp at a fraction of what DSG recommended.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oh sorry, i read it during work, didn't see he wanted affordable.
  
 in that case, Driver: same thing you said, sylvania or ts 6sn7, not the expensive kinds. 
  
 Rectifier: RCA 5U4G smooth (very good), RK60 with adapter (also good), or the mullard GZ32/CV593 (this one is crazy good for the price, not sure if it'll work on the glenn amp though, glenn said it wouldn't, i tried mine for like 20 mins and it sounded fantastic though). GZ34 or GZ37 will also work though they aren't cheap for the nice ones and the cheaper ones kinda suck.
  
 i did not like the 3dg4 that much, the ones i heard might of needed burn-in though.
  
 Output : are RCA 6AS7G really 60$ a pair now? i got a pair for like $10 shipped and i included them for free with some other tubes lol. 
 anyways, the RCA are good, i prefer spending a little more for sylvania 7236 or just going for the 5998 though.
  
  
  
  
 I enjoyed my time with the Glenn amp and it certainly sounds good with cheap tubes, but its well worth investing in nicer tubes. (of course diminishing returns applies here, i found the biggest difference with the most expensive tubes, with most average tubes, the differences where slight, and sometimes very small improvements over the budget tubes).


----------



## rosgr63

Prices do vary, I just got a NOS pair 5998's for $89 but that's not the trend.
  
 A nice pair RCA 6AS7G boxed early vintage black plates would cost no more than $60.
  
 That would give madell a good starting point.
 From then on he can tailor and upgrade to suit his tastes.
  
 I am not going to mention some expensive tubes like the B65, 33S30, Osram 6AS7G Black Base that I have as these are rare and not cheap.
  
 The 5U4G is working on it's limit so it's not really recommended.
 The 5U4GB is a better choice.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the 5U4G sounds better though, by a good margin. I found 3DG4 and 5U4GB to be kinda harsh, they sounded more SS than the regular 5U4G.


----------



## rosgr63

One day when I feel brave enough I might try............


----------



## Silent One

Despite being pushed to its limit when used in the _Silver Hawk_, _The Mighty 596 _sounded better to me (slightly) when using a premium drive tube than the 3DG4.


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> Ticket to Hawaii is way more important than GP.
> 
> DG is going ship the OTL back to me, should get it before the weekend. Can't wait to see how well it pair with HD800.


 
 yes - let me know how you get on with that. you had WA5/HD800 before right?


----------



## jc9394

I'm planning to use 3DG4, Sylvania 6SN7 chrome top, and GEC 6080. Will try not to roll until I get the next Glenn amp.


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> yes - let me know how you get on with that. you had WA5/HD800 before right?




Still have it


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> Despite being pushed to its limit when used in the _Silver Hawk_, _The Mighty 596 _sounded better to me (slightly) when using a premium drive tube than the 3DG4.


 

 What makes you think that the 3DG4 is not a premium tube ???
 It replaced two 5U4GBs paralleled  in TV sets.
 I guess just because it is not over priced it is not premium.
 Your Amps use cheap TV damper diodes 6AU4s Much better then any 5U4 type.
  
 Remember when I was selling 596s for $15 before I got sick so they are not premium neither.


----------



## jc9394

That is so unfortunate, I remember I paid 20 596s for less than $450 shipped on first order and only 10 596s for the same price on second order from same seller.


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> Still have it


 
 is it lean sounding with HD800 compared to the WA2?


----------



## rosgr63

Tube rolling update  GR 6SN7/LP2/3DG4/5998.
  
 Over the weekend I tested two premium 1579 one with the very *r**are* Sevastopol CCCP Navy Anchor (this is one of my rarest finds).
 Nothing special as I expected, I just don't like Russian tubes.
  
 Then I used a Tung-Sol CTL 6SN7GT Black Glass Round Plates.
 Great tube on a great amp.
  
 Listening to Silicone Soul, Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings amongst others.
  
 EDIT:*rare*


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > Despite being pushed to its limit when used in the _Silver Hawk_, _The Mighty 596 _sounded better to me (slightly) when using a *premium drive tube* than the 3DG4.
> ...


 





  
 Allow me to jump in and clarify. I did not mention the 3GD4 not being a premium tube. My sentence speaks to "Drive tubes" such as the TS-BGRP, when using either the 3GD4/596 rectifiers. The presentation sounds good with the 3GD4 in the slot. I simply have a slight preference for the USAF-596 when using the VT-231 TS-BGRP with the type of genres I listen to.
  
 And yes, premium priced doesn't necessarily mean premium part_. _Circuit dependent,_ the USAF-596/TS-BGRP complement in my Woo could really swing. S_ometimes, I'd notice folks gathering outside my window 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




after hours. At first, I thought it was strange, I mean how could they hear any music if I'm wearing headphones? Eventually, I realized I could be seen dancing in the window, suggesting a party inside...


----------



## rnadell

rosgr63 said:


> Wrong recommendation.
> madell doesn't want to spend a lot on tubes.
> If he doesn't have the 5998 mod he will not get the full benefit from these tubes.
> 
> ...


 
 Do you suggest the 5998 mod, is it pricy? Are there other mods I should consider? 
 I don't want to send the amp back once it arrives. thanks


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> Allow me to jump in and clarify. I did not mention the 3GD4 not being a premium tube. My sentence speaks to "Drive tubes" such as the TS-BGRP, when using either the 3GD4/596 rectifiers. The presentation sounds good with the 3GD4 in the slot. I simply have a slight preference for the USAF-596 when using the VT-231 TS-BGRP with the type of genres I listen to.
> 
> And yes, premium priced doesn't necessarily mean premium part_. _Circuit dependent,_ the USAF-596/TS-BGRP complement in my Woo could really swing. S_ometimes, I'd notice folks gathering outside my window
> 
> ...


 

 You silly man


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> That is so unfortunate, I remember I paid 20 596s for less than $450 shipped on first order and only 10 596s for the same price on second order from same seller.


 
 20 596's are worth like $4000 now


----------



## rosgr63

rnadell said:


> Do you suggest the 5998 mod, is it pricy? Are there other mods I should consider?
> I don't want to send the amp back once it arrives. thanks


 
  
 I guess it would depend on the version of your amp.
  
 It would be easy to implement it on the 4 tube version.
  
 Glenn may not be keen in using the 5998's as they occasionally arc over on start up.
 This happens to different amps it's a tube specific problem not an amp one.
 If you do get the mod remember to start the amp without any headphones plugged in.
  
 Even without the mod you will notice the difference between 5998's and 6AS7G/6080's, but you will not be running them at their optimum.
  
 I am sure Glenn will advise you you as to what is best.
  
*SO, I like it!!!!!!!*


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> 20 596's are worth like $4000 now


 
  
 I nearly bought $7k worth last summer but the deal fell apart in the 11th hour. My broker tried to gouge me a bit once she learned I couldn't get the quantity anywhere else... so I balked.


----------



## rnadell

Anyone using the Goldpoint attenuator? Looking for some feedback.
 thanks


----------



## jc9394

I use GP with my beta22 and will be with next Glenn amp. What do you need to know?


----------



## rnadell

jc9394 said:


> I use GP with my beta22 and will be with next Glenn amp. What do you need to know?


 
 Glenn is going to build an otl for me and I am trying to decide whether to make 
 the investment for the goldpoint. Glenn tells me that it is the best out there and 
 I am wondering how much the sq is enhanced by using it vs the Alps that comes 
 stock. thanks


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone know a good place to buy a tube tester? Or good reliable testers to look at? Thought this would be the place to ask.


----------



## parbaked

rnadell said:


> Glenn is going to build an otl for me and I am trying to decide whether to make
> the investment for the goldpoint. Glenn tells me that it is the best out there and
> I am wondering how much the sq is enhanced by using it vs the Alps that comes
> stock. thanks


 
 That depends on your goal/expectations with this amp.
 If you want glenn to build the ultimate OTL then yes to the GP and other any number of other upgraded components.
 If you want Glenn to build the best possible OTL at a certain price point, tell Glenn how much you want to spend and let him pick the components and recommend tubes. I would let Glenn determine where to best spend your $$$....


----------



## jc9394

To me the difference is subtle, I love stepped attenuator is there is no imbalance when listen at low volumes. With regular pots, there is a slight volume imbalance. Keep in mind SA goes click to click, some people complains they can't fine tune the volume. If you never experience with SA, go with the Alps.


----------



## dminches

magiccabbage said:


> Anyone know a good place to buy a tube tester? Or good reliable testers to look at? Thought this would be the place to ask.


 
  
 www.tubesound.com


----------



## magiccabbage

dminches said:


> www.tubesound.com


 
 thanks


----------



## Neogeo333

I have one for sale but its kinda too big and complex compared to my other two tester.


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> That depends on your goal/expectations with this amp.
> If you want glenn to build the ultimate OTL then yes to the GP and other any number of other upgraded components.
> If you want Glenn to build the best possible OTL at a certain price point, tell Glenn how much you want to spend and let him pick the components and recommend tubes. I would let Glenn determine where to best spend your $$$....


 
  
 I couldn't agree more.
  


dminches said:


> www.tubesound.com


 
  
 Bob is very good.
 David I will give you lots of hustle soon with my tube addiction, sorry.............
 You shouldn't be so nice to me, you are just as bad as Glenn.
 These two Yankees..............are making my life way too easy!!!!!!!!!!!
  


neogeo333 said:


> I have one for sale but its kinda too big and complex compared to my other two tester.


 
  
 Your tester is one of the very best like a dream machine.
 What are the other two?


----------



## Silent One

Would like to see a pix, if I could...


----------



## rosgr63

Me too.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I still want one


----------



## Silent One

neogeo333 said:


> I have one for sale but its kinda *too big and complex* compared to my other two tester.


 
  





 Science Expo 2014.... let's see this thing!


----------



## rosgr63

NASA is still using them..............


----------



## Neogeo333

My first tester is a B&K 606 followed by a Sencore Mighty Mite VII TC162.  Last year I acquired a Western Electric KS15560-L1 (Hickok 539B).  The box is a bit beat up but its been recently calibrated.  If my memory serve me right I think theres a metal case that will fit this tester.  I dont know for now, the main reason I got it was because I wanted to jump on the 300b wagon and now things are not going well so I thought I could sell it.  No takers yet but we'll see.  Also too many dials to setup before testing.


----------



## dminches

I purchased a Jackson 646S and that's all I use now.


----------



## jc9394

Glenn's OTL delivered, will set it up later tonight. (hopefully, still busy with work).


----------



## jc9394

Temporary setup using iPod LOD, I noticed the 6080 runs really hot and a little burning smell. is it normal? Using Sylvania 3DG4, TS 6SN7GTB, and GEC 6080.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Temporary setup using iPod LOD, I noticed the 6080 runs really hot and a little burning smell. is it normal? Using Sylvania 3DG4, TS 6SN7GTB, and GEC 6080.




The glenn amp runs tubes VERY hot, the gec 6080 get extremely hot especially as well, i dunno about the smell but they do run very hot, much hotter than the woo amps for sure. U can actually get burned touching the tubes, even with gloves, (the cheap vinyl grippys on the glove i use to pull tubes out actually melted off a few times due to the heat)


----------



## jc9394

I think the smell is from the GEC, they are brand new. I will switch the GEC 6080 to CENTRON 6336 and RCA 5U4G tomorrow when I have time. Have a date with beta now...

Edit, found somewhere in the thread, Glenn mentioned do not use 6336 with 5U4G. I will keep the Slyvania 3DG4 there.


----------



## rosgr63

Because of the large heating power and the close grid-cathode spacing, an unusual form of construction has been used to ensure that the grid wires remain too cool to emit electrons even towards the end of life when active material from the cathode surface may have evaporated onto the grid.​ These valves have tough lives and are often run very hot.​ The valve features a flat cathode, a flat control grid wound between notched rods, and an anode split into two flat bottomed 'U' sections. One on either side of the cathode. This structure is repeated for each valve.​ The wide glass tube envelope is 36 mm in diameter and, excluding the base pins, is 80 mm tall.​  
  
 This is what The National Valve Museum says about the 6080 type tubes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the 5U4G's also sometimes run very hot. the RCA 5U4G I had was extremely hot. The hottest though was the 3DG4
  
 the U52 and 422A seemed a little cooler as well as the mullards and the other GZ's.


----------



## Ultrainferno

What good 3DG4 tube should I start looking for already guys? Any specific brands or types? Glenn, Stavros? Other OTL owners? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> What good 3DG4 tube should I start looking for already guys? Any specific brands or types? Glenn, Stavros? Other OTL owners?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I believe I started out with a GE. Then eventually bought a Sylvania (3DG4).


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> What good 3DG4 tube should I start looking for already guys? Any specific brands or types? Glenn, Stavros? Other OTL owners?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I will be giving you two 3DG4s with the amp I will give you a GE and a Sylvania.
 One of them should be fine don't be spending money needlessly.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thank you kind Sir


----------



## Silent One

My Sylvania was cheep, something like $3....


----------



## jc9394

Pic first, impression later.


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


> Pic first, impression later.


 
 That is a beautiful amp jc!


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes these tubes are very cheep $1 to $3
 but shipping to Europe is not so cheep and these rare in Europe
 They were only used in Zenith TVs in the USA


----------



## magiccabbage

great pics - looks lovely


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Yes these tubes are very cheep $1 to $3
> but shipping to Europe is not so cheep and these rare in Europe
> They were only used in Zenith TVs in the USA


 
  
 Yes, people here are charging 15€ a piece!


----------



## Ultrainferno

jc9394 said:


> Pic first, impression later.


 
  
 Very very nice JC and Glenn.
  
 So how many OTL versions are there? There is the version SO and Clayton have, I think David has another one. Then there is this version, there's the GR08 which I'm getting and there's the GR10 one of a kind that Stavros has. Is that correct Glenn?
  
 In what order of greatness could you place them?


----------



## magiccabbage

some of them just look different like the  chasis is different. I dont know about the others id say its personal preference


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Very very nice JC and Glenn.
> 
> So how many OTL versions are there? There is the version SO and Clayton have, I think David has another one. Then there is this version, there's the GR08 which I'm getting and there's the GR10 one of a kind that Stavros has. Is that correct Glenn?
> 
> In what order of greatness could you place them?


 

 There is also the one I built for neogeo333 with a bigger transformer this can run the BL63 for a driver

  
  
 I think the best one is the one I made for Stavros it is the most versatile for the tube roller and perfect for a tube addict.
 It can take a 6SN7-12SN7-or 25SN7/1633/13D1 as a driver and 6SN7-6BL7-6AS7-6336 for outputs.
 I think Stavros uses it with the Ken-Rad 1633 driver and six RCA 6BL7s for outputs at least that was how he had it setup
 last time I was at his house.
  
 Also I made one in a wooden chassis for Groundzero


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> Pic first, impression later.


 

 It was being discussed how hot the tubes get.
 Those 6336s get screaming hot with those massive cathodes.


----------



## jc9394

It is definitely great sounding amp and put other tube amp to shame for the price they charge.  I only owned 4 tube amps for longer than 6 months, it is easily one of the best paired with HD800.  When pairing with HD800, it probably better than my old WA22 with decent tubes (did I just said that?).


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> It was being discussed how hot the tubes get.
> Those 6336s get screaming hot with those massive cathodes.


 
  
  
 They are very hot, I need to move it to another location that my toddler is not able to touch it by accident.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> It is definitely great sounding amp and put other tube amp to shame for the price they charge.  I only owned 4 tube amps for longer than 6 months, it is easily one of the best paired with HD800.  When pairing with HD800, it probably better than my old WA22 with decent tubes (did I just said that?).


 

 Did you try it with good 6AS7s with the HD800s I have HD800s It might sound better then with the 6336.
 The 6336 is better with lower impedance headphones.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Did you try it with good 6AS7s with the HD800s I have HD800s It might sound better then with the 6336.
> The 6336 is better with lower impedance headphones.


 
  
  
 I have GEC 6AS7G but want to try more inexpensive tubes before jumping to the best.  I will try again with GEC 6080 later today.
  
 Should I use the RCA 5U4G or Slyvania 3DG4 with 6080?


----------



## 2359glenn

I would stay with the 3DG4 for now


----------



## Clayton SF

I've been listening to the soundtrack from _*Sherlock Holmes, A Game of Shadows*_ on Glenn's OTL. Incredible! Just incredible!


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> I've been listening to the soundtrack from _*Sherlock Holmes, A Game of Shadows*_ on Glenn's OTL. Incredible! Just incredible!


 
 Mysteriously good?


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> I've been listening to the soundtrack from _*Sherlock Holmes, A Game of Shadows*_ on Glenn's OTL. Incredible! Just incredible!


 
  
 I listened to that after C told me too. Very nice working music!


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> What good 3DG4 tube should I start looking for already guys? Any specific brands or types? Glenn, Stavros? Other OTL owners?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The 3DG4 are extremely robust they last forever.
  


silent one said:


> My Sylvania was cheep, something like $3....


 
  
 SO keep quiet, until we all stock up first....


ultrainferno said:


> Very very nice JC and Glenn.
> 
> So how many OTL versions are there? There is the version SO and Clayton have, I think David has another one. Then there is this version, there's the GR08 which I'm getting and there's the GR10 one of a kind that Stavros has. Is that correct Glenn?
> 
> In what order of greatness could you place them?


 
  
 How can you ask a good father to differentiate/choose between his children?


----------



## jc9394

iPhone pic


----------



## rosgr63

Nice photo JC.
  
 I still use the Ken-Rad 1633 driver and six RCA 6BL7s for outputs, never rolled yet apart from testing Grados with the 6336A and they sounded great.


----------



## dminches




----------



## 2359glenn

Just wait till your new one arrives.


----------



## dminches

How long will that be??????????????????


----------



## jc9394

That's it, I need a RK60. Someone please sell me one...


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice David.
  
 Glenn, I've already bribed the postman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Is that a Sylvania 6SN7WGTA?


----------



## dminches

Yes - good eye Stavros!


----------



## rosgr63

Nice tube, I like it.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Very nice David.
> 
> Glenn, I've already bribed the postman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 

 You want me to send you David's amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> How long will that be??????????????????


 

 We will see how much I get done this weekend I would say the end of next week.
 Have to go on the road for work on Tuesday just for one day.
 I do like to burn it in a couple of days.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> It is definitely great sounding amp and put other tube amp to shame for the price they charge.  I only owned 4 tube amps for longer than 6 months, it is easily one of the best paired with HD800.  When pairing with HD800, it probably better than my old WA22 with decent tubes (did I just said that?).


 
  
  
 yeah most of my listening on the Glenn amp was done with HD 800.
  
 you can imagine I had alot of fun rolling western electrics and GEC's on the Glenn amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 just wait till u hear the glenn amp with a U52


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> You want me to send you David's amp?


 
  
  
 No need.......
  
 Me and Ultra are already staking out at the right places.............


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> yeah most of my listening on the Glenn amp was done with HD 800.
> 
> you can imagine I had alot of fun rolling western electrics and GEC's on the Glenn amp
> 
> ...


 
  
 Switch to GEC 6080, definitely better than CETRON 6336A.  Much more bass than the WA22 but the soundstage is smaller and instrument placement is not as accurate, it maybe the crappy source (iPod) I'm using now.  Will switch to PWD this weekend.  The U52 is too expensive now, maybe after I get the Nikon 14-24.
  
 The burning smell definitely from the GEC, I do not notice it with 6336A.  I think i will move the amp outside and let it burn for couple hours to get rid of the smell.


----------



## dminches

Stavros, I have your picture hanging at the front gate with the guard.  If he sees you he is instructed to shoot first and ask questions next.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> Switch to GEC 6080, definitely better than CETRON 6336A.  Much more bass than the WA22 but the soundstage is smaller and instrument placement is not as accurate, it maybe the crappy source (iPod) I'm using now.  Will switch to PWD this weekend.  The U52 is too expensive now, maybe after I get the Nikon 14-24.
> 
> The burning smell definitely from the GEC, I do not notice it with 6336A.  I think i will move the amp outside and let it burn for couple hours to get rid of the smell.


 

 The smell is from stuff on the glass oil from your hands burning off the glass. Each tube is dissipating 22 watts.
 The 6AS7 are running at 100ma they are rated at 120 they sound best this way after they are on for awhile
 the smell from the hot glass will go away.
 You should see how hot a amp that uses 6550s/KT88s get of course we are talking 80 watts per channel.


----------



## jc9394

I cleaned the tube with microfiber every time i switch tubes, it maybe the GEC label.


----------



## Ultrainferno

dminches said:


> Stavros, I have your picture hanging at the front gate with the guard.  If he sees you he is instructed to shoot first and ask questions next.




Hah. Buy you don't know how I look!


----------



## dminches

I have a picture of the back of your head.  That's all the guard needs when you are running away.


----------



## dminches

To avoid any unnecessary trouble, here's what's stationed at the front of my house:


----------



## daigo

Hmm, never would have thought amplifier shipments would need a guard detail to protect it from international heists.


----------



## rosgr63

I'll be wearing a monkey's costume...............
  
 Besides the hit is going to be at NC..............


----------



## parbaked

Be careful! They shoot wildlife in NC...especially Euro ones...


----------



## Ultrainferno

We are well prepared. EU power!


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> We will see how much I get done this weekend I would say the end of next week.
> Have to go on the road for work on Tuesday just for one day.
> I do like to burn it in a couple of days.


 
  
 It's not uncommon for me to have 20 hour days. If I were your neighbor, I'd offer to burn-in ALL of your creations.... FREE.


----------



## Silent One

I'm just in time to join the OTL hit parade today!


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> I'm just in time to join the OTL hit parade today!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 I do like that simple layout and compact chassis!


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *parbaked* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I do like that simple layout and compact chassis!


 
  





 He packed it better than a sailor! This holiday weekend I aim to download and try a new audio player. Schedule permitting, will put it through the paces with the 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk,_ Sansui G-22000, Pioneer SX-D7000 and Shindo Sinhonia.
  





 Playtime inside the listening room!


----------



## jc9394

Glenn's OTL make the HD800 really good with modern musics, I never heard hip hop, rock, and top 40 sound this good before.


----------



## rosgr63

silent one said:


> It's not uncommon for me to have 20 hour days. If I were your neighbor, I'd offer to burn-in ALL of your creations.... FREE.


 
   
 Nice
  
 Quote:


ultrainferno said:


> We are well prepared. EU power!


 
  
 Indeed, there's more of us but I am not revealing who.....
  


parbaked said:


> Be careful! They shoot wildlife in NC...especially Euro ones...


 
  
 Thanks for the warning Steven, maybe the monkey disguise won't work very well.
 Back to NJ then...........


jc9394 said:


> Glenn's OTL make the HD800 really good with modern musics, I never heard hip hop, rock, and top 40 sound this good before.


 
  
 Pleased you enjoy it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

dminches said:


> I have a picture of the back of your head.  That's all the guard needs when you are running away.


 
  
 There actually are very clear pictures of me on the www, you just need to know where to look


----------



## dminches

Didn't take long to find them...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Dutch meet?


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> There actually are very clear pictures of me on the www, you just need to know where to look


----------



## Ultrainferno

LOL


----------



## Clayton SF

Happy Saturday!
  
 GlennAmp Mono Blocks!
  
 Hi all!
  
 Today's setup: Decware CSP2+ Zen Triode OTL preamp to the Glenn Mono Blocks. Wonderful warmth and richness.
  
 Loving it. Thanks Glenn, again!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Nice! Still playing Sherlock I see


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Nice! Still playing Sherlock I see


 
  
 Yes! You should hear it on these Zu Audio Omen Standard speakers. Next up is Four Seasons by Janine Jansen!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Oh that's very good too. I'm about to inherit a pair of good old (20 yo) 3 way JBL speakers. I'll post pics when I get them. "JBL?!" you say? Yeah, I know, but these always sounded so good to me. And free is good, no?


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Oh that's very good too. I'm about to inherit a pair of good old (20 yo) 3 way JBL speakers. I'll post pics when I get them. "JBL?!" you say? Yeah, I know, but these always sounded so good to me. And free is good, no?


 
  
 Free is very good. And by the way. Your catalog is on its way! I perused it and found it overwhelming in a very seductive way


----------



## Ultrainferno

You're the best C! Thank you


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> dminches said:
> 
> 
> > I have a picture of the back of your head.  That's all the guard needs when you are running away.
> ...


 
 I have found several...Handsome devil you!.....


----------



## parbaked

ultrainferno said:


> There actually are very clear pictures of me on the www, you just need to know where to look


 
 Ultra looks nothing like his avatar... very misleading!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Where the hell are you guys looking


----------



## parbaked

ultrainferno said:


> Where the hell are you guys looking


 
 Interpol....


----------



## longbowbbs

parbaked said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > Where the hell are you guys looking
> ...


 
 LOL!!!!
  
 Ultra..Can we get a profile pic too?


----------



## parbaked

longbowbbs said:


> Ultra..Can we get a profile pic too?


 
 ...according to Interpol the profile pic is pretty much the same from every angle... 

 disclaimer: I cannot guarantee this is the same ultrainferno!


----------



## longbowbbs

parbaked said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Ultra..Can we get a profile pic too?
> ...


 
 Nice!


----------



## Clayton SF

Ultra's baby picture.


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Ultra looks nothing like his avatar... very misleading!


 
  





 I really like his avatar! What kind of music do you suppose his avatar would listen to?


----------



## Clayton SF

Female vocalists.... fer sure...


----------



## GrindingThud

Abbey Road:




silent one said:


> I really like his avatar! What kind of music do you suppose his avatar would listen to?


----------



## Silent One




----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Ultra's baby picture.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 YES!


----------



## rosgr63

Enough said, time to reveal our ID's.
  
 Here we are, Ultra at the wheel and me behind watching........


----------



## Silent One

You guys are having w-a-y too much fun!


----------



## rosgr63

Not enough, wait until we get David's amp in our hands!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Ultra's baby picture.


 
  
 Awesome!
  
  
  


silent one said:


> You guys are having w-a-y too much fun!


 
  
 There's no such thing as too much fun!
  
 Nice Photoshop Stavros, funny 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 My avatar (and me) have a hangover today


----------



## rnadell

What is the price of admission????


----------



## Clayton SF

I have seen Ultra- in person.
 And he has revealed to me one of the reasons it is hard to identify him by face in public.
 Ultra- He is the MAN!


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> I have seen Ultra- in person.
> And he has revealed to me one of the reasons it is hard to identify him by face in public.
> Ultra- He is the MAN!
> 
> ...


 
 The cape should have tipped me off....


----------



## Ultrainferno

Oh my, this is getting out of hand


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Oh my, this is getting out of hand


 
  
 Then it's time to save us and the world!
 I call upon the help of Ultra (de man).
 Hehehe.


----------



## rosgr63

What about the inferno part?


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> What about the inferno part?


 

 That's a _*hot*_ topic. But he's been known as Ultra (sans the heat) for quite some time.


----------



## rosgr63




----------



## dminches

rosgr63 said:


> Not enough, wait until we get David's amp in our hands!!!!!!!!!




Stavros, I have beefed up security. We are now at code red n


----------



## parbaked

ultrainferno said:


> Oh my, this is getting out of hand


 
 Let's stay on topic, please...


----------



## rosgr63

David, ask Glenn about his new dog............
 Could be Mattley in disguise......
  
 Me and Ultra will be chasing/racing Glenn and the PO van.
 Somehow we'll get lucky this time.
  
 We are working out the ransom


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> Let's stay on topic, please...


 
  
  
 Steven that's a low blow, very unfair....
  
 I give up...........I give up........


----------



## GrindingThud

parbaked said:


> Let's stay on topic, please...


----------



## rosgr63

I surrender...................come on John you guys are playing dirty..............it's not on, Ultra please help!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

You guys are going through allot of trouble
 I can be easily bribed with New York City Pizza
 Problem is David already knows that.


----------



## dminches

I know that, but I need to figure out a way to execute it.


----------



## longbowbbs

dminches said:


> I know that, but I need to figure out a way to execute it.


 
 You figure that out, I want one too!


----------



## Neogeo333

Still, Brooklyn pizza is the best.  Tried a "fancy" place named Stella right in Macys on 34th.  My cousin designed their kitchen and she toke us there.  Gotta say the place was good but way too fancy.  Brick oven, certain ph water, tomatoes  from Italy and whats not.  Freaking thing was like 45+ for 8 slices.  Next day went with my kids to 18th Ave on Brooklyn for pizza and I asked them which one was better, they said the Brooklyn and I agree.


----------



## Clayton SF

We had pizza for lunch at work last Tuesday. I shared some with Ultra-. The photos that is 
 Except for the Hawaiian Pizza, they were all terrible. Not a pepperoni and/nor sausage pizza was amongst the order!


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> pizza


 
 New pizza in my 'hood, Bernal.
 Clayton, you must try! 
 http://thepizzahacker.com/
 I like DelFina and Gialina but this might be the best in SF...

  
 PS-They use 4505 hot italian sausage!


----------



## longbowbbs

parbaked said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > pizza
> ...


 
 I'll be right over!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> New pizza in my 'hood, Bernal.
> Clayton, you must try!
> http://thepizzahacker.com/
> I like DelFina and Gialina but this might be the best in SF...
> ...


 
  


longbowbbs said:


> I'll be right over!


 
  
 I'll bring Ultra over as well. I love Delfina restaurant. I've never tried their pizza. I dined at Central Kitchen a few months ago--twice!


----------



## dminches

Please do not post pictures of pizza. That will distract Glenn who has a lot of work to do


----------



## rnadell

dminches said:


> Please do not post pictures of pizza. That will distract Glenn who has a lot of work to do


 
 I second the motion.


----------



## Neogeo333

One more doesn't hurt.


----------



## Clayton SF

Then again, I feel that posting photos of delicious pizzas will inspire him to come up with more innovative and inventive designs for his GlennPizzaAmps. He'll be inspired to finish off his current designs to go ahead and build more, more, MORE!
  
 The start of a Shrimp and Feta Pizza! AKA Stavros Pizza Galore!


----------



## Neogeo333

Hmm, part amp and part pizza re-heater?  He will need more 6336 tubes in his OTL.


----------



## dminches

That is not pizza!


----------



## Clayton SF

dminches said:


> That is not pizza!


 

 Okay. It is pizza with shrimp and other things added as a topping... 
 I do know what you mean, though.


----------



## dminches

I am a plain slice kinda guy.


----------



## Clayton SF

dminches said:


> I am a plain slice kinda guy.


 

 So am I. But just like vacuum tubes, once in a while I'd like to embellish the sound with a few esoteric tubes. Stock serves its purpose too, especially when you're hungry and there's nothing else around.


----------



## kvtaco17

none of those are real pizza...this is real pizza!


----------



## dminches

That is not pizza. That is a cheese and tomato sauce pie.


----------



## kvtaco17

nope that's a real pizza! IF your from Chicago... Lou's FTW!


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> I can be easily bribed with New York City Pizza


 
 I miss John's on Bleeker!


----------



## Clayton SF

kvtaco17 said:


> none of those are real pizza...this is real pizza!


 

 I've never had one like that! I could eat the crust alone and be happy for at least a day or two.


----------



## kvtaco17

Its pretty amazing... The best part is there isn't a runny sauce instead its fresh chunks of tomatoes seasoned to amazingness on top of ur choice of toppings... Cheese underneath all sitting on top of a crunchy yet doughy butter crust... A slice is a meal!


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> I've never had one like that! I could eat the crust alone and be happy for at least a day or two.


 
 In SF you can get deep dish at Patxi's or Little Star...
 http://www.patxispizza.com/
 http://www.littlestarpizza.com/
 I prefer Little Star on Valencia.


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks for scouting the land! From one to another: you are a true San Franciscan!


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Thanks for scouting the land! From one to another: you are a true San Franciscan!


 
 The most San Francisco pizza is actually Pauline's on Valencia. http://www.paulinespizza.com/
 That have a distinct cornmeal crust and grow most their veggies on their farm in the east bay.
 It is not the most authentic NY or Naples pizza but it is excellent and very local!
 It's been around forever and the yellow building next door was the old Levis factory - now a Quaker school...gotta love SF!


----------



## Clayton SF

Pizza Chronicles. Yep, that's what we should start.
 Nothing like a good local pizza and a visit to _*Paxton Gate*_ for an after-pizza jaunt.
 Thanks!


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Pizza Chronicles. Yep, that's what we should start.
> Nothing like a good local pizza and a visit to _*Paxton Gate*_ for an after-pizza jaunt.
> Thanks!


 
 You certainly don't want to go to Paxton Gate BEFORE pizza, unless you are on a diet!


----------



## parbaked

Back onto the off topic.
 I did finally manage to find a picture of Stavros in his monkey suit!


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> You guys are going through allot of trouble
> I can be easily bribed with New York City Pizza
> Problem is David already knows that.


 
  
 Ultra and me can do better:
 Two Pizzas
 Vol-au-vent
 Mini sausage and cheese pies
 Ice cream
 Galaktoboureko
  
 Come on David, try beat that..............
  


parbaked said:


> Back onto the off topic.
> I did finally manage to take a picture of Stavros in his monkey suit!


 
  
  
 Nice Steven I like it......................looks like me actually, girls, food, sun what more could I ask for?
  
 I am not missing tubes and amps, no way..................


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Nice Steven I like it......................looks like me actually, girls, food, sun what more could I ask for?
> 
> I am not missing tubes and amps, no way..................


 
 Yes...I can see you keeping your hands warm even without tubes!
 It is commendable to adapt so easily!
 But looking in your eyes I see you still missing cheese pies...oh well...it is important to always want a little more than what is within our grasp....
 (I can't find a picture of a monkey on a beach with girls, cheese pies, beer and a tube amp...we have to work on that!)


----------



## Silent One

neogeo333 said:


> Still, *Brooklyn pizza is the best.*  Tried a "fancy" place named Stella right in Macys on 34th.  My cousin designed their kitchen and she toke us there.  Gotta say the place was good but way too fancy.  Brick oven, certain ph water, tomatoes  from Italy and whats not.  Freaking thing was like 45+ for 8 slices.  Next day went with my kids to 18th Ave on Brooklyn for pizza and I asked them which one was better, they said the Brooklyn and I agree.


 
  
  


dminches said:


> *I am a plain slice kinda guy.*


 
  
 My NY roots are in Brownsville, B'klyn. It's apparent these two cats know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 their Audio and Pizza!


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> Yes...I can see you keeping your hands warm even without tubes!
> It is commendable to adapt so easily!
> But looking in your eyes I see you still missing cheese pies...oh well...it is important to always want a little more than what is within our grasp....
> (I can't find a picture of a monkey on a beach with girls, cheese pies, beer and a tube amp...we have to work on that!)


 
  
  
 Steven, please don't start me up or both of us will end up banned.................


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Steven, please don't start me up or both of us will end up banned.................


 
 If you ever get banned DS Girl will pick you up in her new car and take you out for pizza or cheese pies.
 If you guys let me come along, I will pick up the tab!


----------



## rosgr63

It's Monday morning, I just started work and what do I get?
  
 A good morning email from Glenn and some nice food and beach/girl/monkey photos.
  
 Come on please leave me alone, I can't concentrate.


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> It's Monday morning, I just started work and what do I get?
> 
> A good morning email from Glenn and some nice food and beach/girl/monkey photos.
> 
> Come on please leave me alone, I can't concentrate.


 
 OK, we leave you alone...for 3-4 hours...is that a work day?


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks, the beach bar is open 24/7.
  
 Listening to Bananarama to ease the pain..........


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Thanks, the beach bar is open 24/7.


 
 Get back to work!
 The guilt is killing my buzz...but I will have another beach bev...


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Thanks, the beach bar is open 24/7.
> 
> Listening to Bananarama to ease the pain..........


 
  
 Late tonight, will listen to Bebel Gilberto's Remix "Bananeira".... close?


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> Get back to work!
> The guilt is killing my buzz...but I will have another beach bev...


 
  
 Damage is done already Steven.
 I have a big smile on my face and people are looking at me thinking I've lost it again.
  
 I was going to post about my new tube find, but I prefer food and monkey talk.........


----------



## rosgr63

silent one said:


> Late tonight, will listen to Bebel Gilberto's Remix "Bananeira".... close?


 
  
  
 Great, thanks SO!!!!!!!!
  
 I can't listen to anything serious today.
 Might try Bob Marley later on.


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Might try Bob Marley later on.


 
 That will make work right!


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> That will make work right!


 
  
 Eddie Grant helps too.


----------



## Neogeo333

In the mood for some Lightning Hopkins.   Those 6336 and VR102 bring the best bass to my Sony Z6.  So rare that Im listening with a dynamic phone for a change.


----------



## Silent One

Really though, I may not get any listening done tonight; overnight. I waited too late to start downloading "Mavericks" for my Mac mini music server.... over a _super speedy_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 internet connection. This could take a while, so Monday night shall be reserved for Bebel Gilberto! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Actually, to save lots of $$$ I'm cheep and using the hotel's FREE service. Them business folk using corporate bang get the lightening licks!


----------



## Ultrainferno

38 mostly pizza posts overnight, you guys have issues. Issues I tell you.


----------



## rosgr63

Et Tu Brute?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Sorry, I'm still a bit tired and kranky from my late night supervillain duties.


----------



## rosgr63

Nice, I like it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Ultra and me can do better:
> Two Pizzas
> Vol-au-vent
> Mini sausage and cheese pies
> ...


 
  

  
 Stavros  bring the girls forget the pizza and the amp is yours


----------



## jc9394

I will be hand over all my amps to Stavros at the airport before he reach you.


----------



## rosgr63

Steven, I hope you'll bail me out now...............
  
  

  
*EDIT: Bail, stupid autocorrect..............*


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Steven, I hope you'll bale me out now...............


 
 I'm on my way....


----------



## rosgr63

Nice!!!!!!!!!!
  
 In this case  can I be as naughty as I can?????????
  
 We get to keep the amps and the girls.........


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> We get to keep the amps and the girls.........


 
 Yes...there is room in the van for girls AND amps!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Nice!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> In this case  can I be as naughty as I can?????????
> 
> We get to keep the amps and the girls.........


 

 That's what you think Stavros
 What do I get???
 I get the girls I can have as many amps as I want.


----------



## Clayton SF




----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


>


 

 OH MY girls and pizza Clayton the amp is yours.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> OH MY girls and pizza Clayton the amp is yours.


 
  
 SCORE! Thanks!


----------



## jc9394

not if I show up with girls and NY pizza...


----------



## rosgr63

You dare Glenn.
 We'll get two vans there'll be room for who ever wants to join us.
  
 Otherwise I'll snitch on you to L!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jc9394




----------



## Ultrainferno

oh I'll have a piece of that!


----------



## dminches

She looks like she is 12.


----------



## rosgr63




----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> She looks like she is 12.


 
  
  
 LOL, she is legal in every state.


----------



## rosgr63

David please tell them to stop talking pizza so I can post some tube photos...................


----------



## jc9394

tubes are always welcome.


----------



## Clayton SF




----------



## dminches

By decree, pizza photos, unless they contain tubes too, are banned.
  
 Resume regular activities.


----------



## kazsud

dminches said:


> By decree, pizza photos, unless they contain tubes too, are banned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


lmao I just went thru 4 pages of pizza!!!


----------



## Eee Pee

Pizza is why I went through the last four pages.


----------



## Clayton SF

eee pee said:


> Pizza is why I went through the last four pages.


----------



## parbaked

dminches said:


> By decree, pizza photos, unless they contain tubes too, are banned.
> 
> Resume regular activities.


 
 Yes and no more monkey pics unless they concern amplifier design:


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Yes and no more monkey pics unless they concern amplifier design:


 
La la la la la la la la la la!


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> Yes and no more monkey pics unless they concern amplifier design:


 

 Did you know my amplifiers have Monkey business going on in them.
 It is the secret of them sounding so good


----------



## Silent One

If you recall, I discovered your secret early.... peering inside the amp with a 48" Black light!


----------



## GrindingThud

Ew......



silent one said:


> :wink_face:  If you recall, I discovered your secret early.... peering inside the amp with a 48" Black light!


----------



## Clayton SF

grindingthud said:


> Ew......


 

 Bad for your eyes!* Long Wave UV!*


----------



## rosgr63

I like monkey business, that's why I like your amps!!!!!!!!!
  
 Steven, I hope you're not gonna mess up (spice up) my morning.................


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I like monkey business, that's why I like your amps!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Steven, I hope you're not gonna mess up (spice up) my morning.................


 
 I thought I already done that   me bad


----------



## rosgr63

Yes you have, Thank you!!!!!!!!!!
  
 Enjoy your trip, be good..........


----------



## Ultrainferno

If this thread keeps getting out of hand, I'll need to call the party police again


----------



## jc9394

Send them over anytime...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Does anyone happen to have a high quality version of Nancy Sinatra's "Bang Bang" (My baby shot me down) I could borrow?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ultrainferno said:


> Does anyone happen to have a high quality version of Nancy Sinatra's "Bang Bang" (My baby shot me down) I could borrow?


 
  
  
 mayb


----------



## Silent One

Going to demo some gear Ultra or showcase yours?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Just cant find a good recording of that song. It is just for my use with the 300b and lcd2/HE500


----------



## Silent One

@ 0300 hours this morning, I played enjoyed Astrud Gilberto's 2 LP 45 RPM 180 Gram set "The Shadow Of Your Smile." Honestly, I can still hear her feather light vocals 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





decaying inside the listening room.


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> Does anyone happen to have a high quality version of Nancy Sinatra's "Bang Bang" (My baby shot me down) I could borrow?


 
  
  
 That's a naughty song, are you allowed to play it????????


----------



## rosgr63

Tube talk:
  
 Does anyone know the difference in specks between the 5Z3 short and fat bottles?


----------



## 2359glenn

Before anyone asks again
 I No longer Make adapters for any Woo amplifier ask Woo they will make it for you.


----------



## jc9394

As long as you still make it for YOUR amp, we are in good hands.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> Before anyone asks again
> I No longer Make adapters for any Woo amplifier ask Woo they will make it for you.


 
 ...more time for pizza and girls?


----------



## Clayton SF

Then who's bringing the beer?
  
\


----------



## wotts

jc9394 said:


> As long as you still make it for YOUR amp, we are in good hands.


 
  
  
 +1


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> As long as you still make it for YOUR amp, we are in good hands.


 
  
 oh yeah...that's what I meant to say...


----------



## prosperone




----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> Then who's bringing the beer?


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> As long as you still make it for YOUR amp, we are in good hands.


 

 Yes I will still make it for my amps and others.
 I don't know what my amp needs maybe a 6F8 or 596.
 The 300B amp really has nothing to sub there is no sub for a C3g and I have no access to a Loctal tube base.


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> ...more time for pizza and girls?


 

 You are right no time for adapters
 Pizza girls and beer when I am not building amps.


----------



## rosgr63

Your OTL's Glenn can use a variety of adapters so we can enjoy so many different tubes like:
  
 2C51/6CG7/6F8G/6C8G/7N7/596/RK60 that's 7 adapters at least, not to mention the socket savers.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rosgr63 said:


> Your OTL's Glenn can use a variety of adapters so we can enjoy so many different tubes like:
> 
> 2C51/6CG7/6F8G/6C8G/7N7/596/RK60 that's 7 adapters at least, not to mention the socket savers.


----------



## kazsud

You guys would love Pizza Brain in Philadelphia. 

They are a Pizza shop and Pizza Museum.

www.pizzabrain.org


----------



## rosgr63

Has anybody used any of these two rectifiers?
  
 Is there a difference in specs?


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Has anybody used any of these two rectifiers?
> 
> Is there a difference in specs?


 

 Do you have the 4 pin adapter to use these ?
 They should work in your amps the same as a 5U4G    225ma output


----------



## rosgr63

They should be fine, I was wondering if the short bottle will be as strong as the tall bottle.
  
 Never seen short bottles before.


----------



## Oskari

SICTE may have been the only manufacturer of skinny 5Z3s. I can't find any others.
  

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5z3t.html


----------



## parbaked

Pizza tonight at Pizza Hacker in Bernal Heights, 94110. A little heavy on the toppings, but this stuff is really good!
  
*Top Shelf Margherita *
*Dry-Farmed Early Girl Tomato Sauce, Fresh House Stretched Mozzarella, Basil*
  

  

  
  

 *Yo Vinny! *
 *Marinated Onions, Mama Lil’s Pickled Goat Horn Peppers, 4505 Hot Italian Sausage, Tomato Sauce, Fresh Mozzarella*


----------



## jc9394

Can someone explain to me why Teton is so expensive? It use the same tubes as my OTL. 

http://www.ttvjaudio.com/Apex_High_Fi_Audio_Teton_Preamp_and_Headphone_amp_p/aaa0000020.htm


----------



## rosgr63

oskari said:


> SICTE may have been the only manufacturer of skinny 5Z3s. I can't find any others.
> 
> 
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5z3t.html


 
  
  
 That's right Oskari, never seen anybody else make them.
  


parbaked said:


> Pizza tonight at Pizza Hacker in Bernal Heights, 94110. A little heavy on the toppings, but this stuff is really good!
> 
> *Top Shelf Margherita *
> *Dry-Farmed Early Girl Tomato Sauce, Fresh House Stretched Mozzarella, Basil*
> ...


 
  
  
 Steven I trade you one Sicte for one pizza, do we have a deal?


----------



## Neogeo333

jc9394 said:


> Can someone explain to me why Teton is so expensive? It use the same tubes as my OTL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It probably comes with a lifetime supply of pizza?  Joke aside, its stupidly expensive.  For that money you would can have a Stax rig or a completely new system with dac/amp/pre/ and some phones.  Ohh look it can not even handle 6336 tubes.  GlennOTL FTW!!!


----------



## rosgr63

George, which is your favorite tube set up so far?


----------



## Neogeo333

Hi Stavros, its very difficult to say but i keep coming back to the VR102/6336/3DG4 combo.  It offers the right tube sound that im looking for.  I still havent tried most of my other 6sn7 on GlennOTL yet though.  Keep us posted on the 5z3 when you try them.


----------



## rosgr63

Good evening George, thanks for the info.
 When you have time would you try something else apart from the BL6 please and let us know?
  
 I am only asking because I don't want to use any BL6, I may be running my transformer close to* its* limit.
  
*EDIT:its*


----------



## Neogeo333

Isnt your tranny the same as mine?  I thought since your OTL can take 6336 it would do VR102?


----------



## rosgr63

No, yours has an even bigger transformer, mine is on the border line.


----------



## Neogeo333

Stavros do you know if all 6520 are the same?  I got one today but its same construction as a 5998 but its labeled 6520.   I have a pair of 6520 from TS that has the usual 6as7 construction.  Could it be a failed 5998 or a mislabel 5998?  I thought only the 5998/2399/421a/422a shared similar plate structure.


----------



## Ultrainferno

There's a 596 for sale on the bay
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/201024729715


----------



## Ultrainferno

neogeo333 said:


> Stavros do you know if all 6520 are the same?  I got one today but its same construction as a 5998 but its labeled 6520.   I have a pair of 6520 from TS that has the usual 6as7 construction.  Could it be a failed 5998 or a mislabel 5998?  I thought only the 5998/2399/421a/422a shared similar plate structure.


 
  
 According to Skylab the 6520 was only made by Tung Sol (he said that on Tube Asylum, http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/22/220349.html ).
 The 6520 is a high rated 6AS7G, and not a 5998. The 5998 were only made by TS/Chatham but who knows what the hell happened there 50 years ago, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 On the other hand, there do are other reports of 6520 with the 5998 plate structure, so don't worry 
  
 My pair of 6520 is arriving today, it has the "normal" construction. I'll post pics later. Stavros has a pair of great looking NOS TS 6520!


----------



## rosgr63

neogeo333 said:


> Stavros do you know if all 6520 are the same?  I got one today but its same construction as a 5998 but its labeled 6520.   I have a pair of 6520 from TS that has the usual 6as7 construction.  Could it be a failed 5998 or a mislabel 5998?  I thought only the 5998/2399/421a/422a shared similar plate structure.


 
  
 George, I must check my database when I get home to be sure.
  


ultrainferno said:


> There's a 596 for sale on the bay
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201024729715


 
  
  
 I would buy a 5U4G (which is the same tube without the top connectors) and save myself the money.


ultrainferno said:


> According to Skylab the 6520 was only made by Tung Sol (he said that on Tube Asylum, http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/22/220349.html ).
> The 6520 is a high rated 6AS7G, and not a 5998. The 5998 were only made by TS/Chatham but who knows what the hell happened there 50 years ago, right?
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Please post the photos, I will too later.
 Unless somebody starts talking about nice food again and I forget.................


----------



## Ultrainferno

Skylab also said the 6520 with domino plates probably just is a 5998. (http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/195#post_6971065)
 I hope Rob doesn't mind me posting what he said a long time ago.
  
 Here are Stavros' 6520 tubes (Hope it's ok to post this Stavros)


----------



## Neogeo333

Gonna post some pics soon too tired now.  Gotta find me another one of those dominos plated 6520 for the pair.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Lieven.
  
 No problem at all, they are my tubes so no worries.
  
*EDIT: My spelling today is terrible, sorry.*


----------



## Silent One

The ebay seller reports the USAF-596 was manufactured by United Electronics. But I read they were solely a Re-brander. Many companies relied on each other back then to keep tubes available during wartime efforts.
  
 Anyone know who manufactured my beloved glass.... Tung-Sol? Sylvania???


----------



## Ultrainferno

Are you sure they weren't just manufactured by UEC, seems most logic.


----------



## Silent One

Yeah, that's what my boxes look like, too. Actually, if UEC did make 'em... or not, I'd be happy. Would like to get to the bottom of it, though. 
  
 Perhaps, Skylab, Oskari, rosgr63, Xcalibur255 ( and others) may have some thoughts.


----------



## john57

To my knowledge United Electronics was the only maker of the USAF-596 tube. There was some confusion that RCA had some part of its development but not the case. The tube was designed to operate at 60,000 feet for the USAF.


----------



## rosgr63

From what I know (which is very little), RCA, National Union, Tung-Sol and Sylvania were makers.
  
 Famous brands like Western Electric, had some tubes subcontracted but made  to their higher specs with very tight tolerances.


----------



## Silent One

The Radio Museum says the rectifier was both made and manufactured by UEC. I went with that for a couple of years, then read a reputable piece on who was doing what back in the 50-60-70s and their reliance on each other.


----------



## rosgr63

The United Electronics Company was based in Newark New Jersey and founded in 1934. It was one of the first manufacturers in the USA of transmitting power tubes. They became part of Ling Electronics in 1958. After this period they then bought valves from RCA, GE and Sylvania instead of producing the items in house. They also subcontracted valve manufacture to the Far East and had valves made for then in many locations across the world and marketed the valves under the United Electron brand.
  
  
 https://www.watfordvalves.com/products.asp?ID=1&man=310


----------



## Ultrainferno

Let me warm up the flux capacitor SO, I'll be right over to pick you up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 (for those not following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeLorean_time_machine)


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> The United Electronics Company was based in Newark New Jersey and founded in 1934. It was one of the first manufacturers in the USA of transmitting power tubes. They became part of Ling Electronics in 1958. After this period they then bought valves from RCA, GE and Sylvania instead of producing the items in house. They also subcontracted valve manufacture to the Far East and had valves made for then in many locations across the world and marketed the valves under the United Electron brand.
> 
> 
> https://www.watfordvalves.com/products.asp?ID=1&man=310


 
  
 Seeing most of the 596 I ever seen are pre 58(56 & 57), that should mean they are UEC made, no?


----------



## rosgr63

Stop over here first for a cup of coffee.............remember I am your faithful dog Muttley!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Of course, SO will just have to sit on the roof and carry the tubes we buy there


----------



## john57

rosgr63 said:


> The United Electronics Company was based in Newark New Jersey and founded in 1934. It was one of the first manufacturers in the USA of transmitting power tubes. They became part of Ling Electronics in 1958. After this period they then bought valves from RCA, GE and Sylvania instead of producing the items in house. They also subcontracted valve manufacture to the Far East and had valves made for then in many locations across the world and marketed the valves under the United Electron brand.
> 
> 
> https://www.watfordvalves.com/products.asp?ID=1&man=310


 
 Yes after 1958 United Electronics Company begin to outsource  the manufacture of tubes. But with the pictures shown above the 596 tubes were manufactured in 1957 before United Electronics Company became part of Ling Electronics.


----------



## rosgr63

I would say tubes dated a couple of years later were most likely made by UE.
  
 L it's a special 4 seater version, SO and another lucky person could sit at the back............


----------



## Silent One

I don't mind at all being tasked with carrying the tubes. Provided, we're transporting plenty of Belgium and French delights! Thanks for the contributions everyone. Now it makes sense, rosgr63; john57, that both realities were correct and I was missing context of the latter piece printed.


----------



## rosgr63

SO you're most welcome.
  
 Please be firm and make sure L is not drinking and driving and doesn't jump any red lights (like me.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










)
  
*PS *I hope Glenn is not reading this..............


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'll bring a designated driver, Stavros. Pizza, chocolates, bubbles and tubes!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## rosgr63

If she's driving I am going alone, don't need more passengers............


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> SO you're most welcome.
> 
> Please be firm and make sure L is not drinking and driving and doesn't jump any red lights (like me.......
> 
> ...


 

 What !


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Isnt your tranny the same as mine?  I thought since your OTL can take 6336 it would do VR102?


 

 George yours is bigger and has a separate filament winding for the driver tube.
 Your amp has a 4 amp winding just for the BL63


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> Pizza tonight at Pizza Hacker in Bernal Heights, 94110. A little heavy on the toppings, but this stuff is really good!
> 
> *Top Shelf Margherita *
> *Dry-Farmed Early Girl Tomato Sauce, Fresh House Stretched Mozzarella, Basil*
> ...


 
 You guys are killing me with pictures of good pizza
 No good pizza in North Carolina maybe in Raleigh / Durham but I am not going to look for it.
  


jc9394 said:


> Can someone explain to me why Teton is so expensive? It use the same tubes as my OTL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 They have to make money !!!!!!!
 Yours has two output tubes and that amp uses one so witch is better?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> You guys are killing me with pictures of good pizza
> No good pizza in North Carolina maybe in Raleigh / Durham but I am not going to look for it.
> 
> 
> ...





+1

Also supposably its a "fast" sounding OTL....so its another zana deux kinda amp... Not dynamic and warm like a glenn or silky smooth like a woo


----------



## jc9394

The OTL start sounding very nice now, the 3DG4 and 6080 start settling down.  Did I ever mentioned how much I hate burn in period?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> The OTL start sounding very nice now, the 3DG4 and 6080 start settling down.  Did I ever mentioned how much I hate burn in period?




And it just keeps sounding better and better!!!


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> The OTL start sounding very nice now, the 3DG4 and 6080 start settling down.  *Did I ever mentioned how much I hate burn in period?*


 




_ If only we were neighbors..._


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> _ If only we were neighbors..._


 
  
 Yep, I did sent the amp for some Chicago pizza before fly home for chowda.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Yep, I did sent the amp for some Chicago pizza before fly home for chowda.


 




  
 My 9 hour session overnight is now in the books! The sun is trying to rise. And I shall go to bed shortly with amps and breakfast on my mind.


----------



## parbaked

Didn't you smell smoke when you first fired her back up?
 Did it smell like Italian Beef drippings residue?


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> Yep, I did sent the amp for some Chicago pizza before fly home for chowda.


 
 Didn't you smell smoke when you first fired her back up?
 Did it smell like Italian Beef drippings?


----------



## jc9394

Found a pizza inside the amp that DG sent me.  It is the GEC label causing the smell, it is cooking the glue and label.


----------



## jc9394




----------



## Dubstep Girl

Wow love the pic!!!! And the6f8g sounds fantastic on the Glenn, much better than it did on the wa22.


----------



## jc9394

it's been a while i use the 6f8g but yes it does sound very well.  i will try brimar cv1988 during lunch.  it is nice to work from home.


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 mmmmm...smells like pizza....


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> What !


 
  
  
 Your fault, you made me jump the red lights showing me all the nice girls!
 What was I supposed to do stop???????????
  


parbaked said:


> Didn't you smell smoke when you first fired her back up?
> Did it smell like Italian Beef drippings?


 
  
 Please stop it..............I can smell pizza everywhere I go.....
  


jc9394 said:


> Found a pizza inside the amp that DG sent me.  It is the GEC label causing the smell, it is cooking the glue and label.


 
  
 Some sellers just stick the labels on, if you look carefully you can tell if it's original or not.


----------



## jc9394

rosgr63 said:


> Some sellers just stick the labels on, if you look carefully you can tell if it's original or not.


 
  
 It is the original label.


----------



## jc9394

Holy crap, rolled in the Brimar CV1988 during lunch.  I never knew the HD800 can slam so hard and bass goes this deep.  It is crazy synergy HD800 with Brimar CV1988 and GEC 6080.  Can't wait til I roll the RCA 5U4G and GZ34/37.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Your fault, you made me jump the red lights showing me all the nice girls!
> What was I supposed to do stop???????????


 
 You were supposed to be looking at the road not the girls. Just a quick glance would have been good enough.


----------



## rosgr63

Best you ever heard the HD800 so far?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Here are my 6520, or supposedly 6520, they look pretty much like 6AS7G but they were very cheap. I doubt they're still good but at least I had tubes labelled 6520


----------



## jc9394

rosgr63 said:


> Best you ever heard the HD800 so far?


 
  
 Not the best but close to the best.  The balanced beta22 still slightly better but it is 3-4x the price of the OTL.


----------



## rosgr63

They are nice tubes, because you bought them cheap doesn't mean they are bad.


----------



## rosgr63

jc9394 said:


> Not the best but close to the best.  The balanced beta22 still slightly better but it is 3-4x the price of the OTL.


 
  
 I am talking tube not SS


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Gec cv2523 + cv1988 + cv575


----------



## jc9394

rosgr63 said:


> I am talking tube not SS


 
  
  
 That is a yes.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> Holy crap, rolled in the Brimar CV1988 during lunch.  I never knew the HD800 can slam so hard and bass goes this deep.  It is crazy synergy HD800 with Brimar CV1988 and GEC 6080.  Can't wait til I roll the RCA 5U4G and GZ34/37.


 
 I don't think that there is any amp that sounds better with the HD800 or HD650 then this one


----------



## jc9394

Now I need some rectifiers to roll...


----------



## rosgr63

jc9394 said:


> That is a yes.


 
  
 You are very honest, happy listening.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> Now I need some rectifiers to roll...


 

 Better ask DG for rectifiers


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Now I need some rectifiers to roll...




:evil:


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Better ask DG for rectifiers


 
  
  


dubstep girl said:


>


 
  
  
 Already on route...


----------



## jc9394

rosgr63 said:


> You are very honest, happy listening.


 
  
  
 I can't believe I just said that too but it is.


----------



## 2359glenn

Rectifiers
 I have only used 3DG4 , 5AU4 < and GZ37
 The 350ma Rectifiers never tried the WE422 like DG but I am sure that tube sounded nice. It is Another 350ma tube.


----------



## jc9394

I'm going to stick with GZ34/GZ37 for now, not going to put crazy expensive tubes in.  It is not your intention to use expensive tubes to sound good, so I'm going to use midrange tubes to make it sound the best.
  
 GZ34/GZ37, Brimar CV1988, and GEC 6080 / CETRON 6336 for low impedance tubes.
  
 I will try the RCA 5U4G tonight since I have one laying around.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Gec cv2523 + cv1988 + cv575


 
  
  
 I will get Glenn 300B amp instead...


----------



## rosgr63

A serious question to our seasoned readers:
  
 How come all my posts start with amps and tubes and end up with pizza?
  
 Just finished testing a nice Mullard CV575


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Steven I trade you one Sicte for one pizza, do we have a deal?


 
 Deal, but first I must send Glenn 40 pizza in exchange for an OTL so I can use it!


----------



## jc9394

Good question, I have no idea but this is the third time we talk about pizza in the thread that I know of.  Maybe it is we love pizza as much as amp and tube.


----------



## rosgr63

I thought it was an Italian thing............
  
 Maybe we should get Dr Stor to join us.


----------



## jc9394

that too, Italian make the best pizza...


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> I thought it was an Italian thing............


 
 I'm Italian Chinese and born in Belgium.
 I only think of food and beer.
 It is not my fault...


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> I'm *Italian Chinese *and born in Belgium.
> I only think of food and beer.
> It is not my fault...


 
  
 if you don't like food, you have serious issue.


----------



## Ultrainferno

parbaked said:


> I'm Italian Chinese and born in Belgium.
> I only think of food and beer.
> It is not my fault...


 
  
 Wait, that makes 2 belgians. We're taking over!!


----------



## rosgr63

We have an Allie at last Lieven!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Final remark for tonight:
  
 Why are all my nice Chinese friends leading me astray?


----------



## jc9394

Because we all Chinese are alcoholics...


----------



## rosgr63

Because you are just as naughty as me.
  
 I suppose 40 years of teaching form my Singaporean Chinese mentor have not been wasted!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Neogeo333

Chinese and Italian food along with Belgian beer while listening to American amps with European tubes?  Sound just about right.


----------



## rosgr63

No beach, no cocktails.......................


----------



## Ultrainferno

No girls!


----------



## daigo

parbaked said:


> I'm Italian Chinese and born in Belgium.
> I only think of food and beer.
> It is not my fault...


 
 Mmm, Belgian beer.  I had a Rodenbach Caractere Rouge last night that I surprisingly found on shelves here in the US.


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> No girls!


 
  
 Now you are talking.
  
 To sum up:
  
 Nice food, drink, girls, listening to an American muscle amp built by Glenn at a beach bar!
  
 That's pretty close to heaven isn't it?


----------



## jc9394

Just tell me where and when...


----------



## rosgr63

When Glenn is ready


----------



## Neogeo333

ultrainferno said:


> No girls!


 
 Be careful if anyone is driving specially Stavros.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> When Glenn is ready


 
  
 I am ready I am ready
  
 I havent built a muscle amp for awhile !00 watt per channel using 6550/KT88s
 We can go 200 need a bigger transformer
  
 Or go SS 500 WPC


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Be careful if anyone is driving specially Stavros.


 

 Stavros just ran into a light pole


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> I don't think that there is any amp that sounds better with the HD800 or HD650 then this one


 
 has anyone heard the DNA and the Glenn OTL side by side? Was just wondering how much of an edge the DNA has on it if any?


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> has anyone heard the DNA and the Glenn OTL side by side? Was just wondering how much of an edge the DNA has on it if any?


 
  
  
 Which DNA?  Sonett or Stratus?  There is no comparison on Sonett, Glenn's OTL is much better.  I have not heard Stratus.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I will get Glenn 300B amp instead...


 
  
 This is the path I've been walking on. But I might need 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 transportation!


----------



## jc9394

Once my work wind down and have enough toy budget, you or DG can burn in the amp for me.


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> Which DNA?  Sonett or Stratus?  There is no comparison on Sonett, Glenn's OTL is much better.  I have not heard Stratus.


 
 I meant the Stratus


----------



## jc9394

I wish I have a chance to compare them.


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Pizza tonight at Pizza Hacker in Bernal Heights, 94110. A little heavy on the toppings, but this stuff is really good!
> 
> *Top Shelf Margherita *
> *Dry-Farmed Early Girl Tomato Sauce, Fresh House Stretched Mozzarella, Basil*
> ...


 

 Had I known. Had I known.
 I'm stuck with sous-vide salmon and you're closer to pizza heaven.
 Had I known 
  
 Okay. My heart is always in Belgium.
 To Beer or not to beer. That is not the question!


----------



## wotts

clayton sf said:


> Had I known. Had I known.
> I'm stuck with sous-vide salmon and you're closer to pizza heaven.
> Had I known
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not to beer, here tonight. Warming up with a glass of Woodford Reserve whiskey after spending the last hour digging my car out of the drift in my driveway. I appear to have found the Bimmer's limit: knee-deep snow drifts.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I got up at 7AM on a Saturday to go to a car show. What was I thinking when I decided that


----------



## wotts

ultrainferno said:


> I got up at 7AM on a Saturday to go to a car show. What was I thinking when I decided that


 
  
 I planned to go to the Detroit Auto show tomorrow, but I just don't feel like driving for two hours+ in this weather.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Just rain here. Snow should maybe arrive next week. Normally it snows in November but not this year. Global warming and such. ..


----------



## wotts

The last time we had this much snow was 1994. It has been interesting. It is fun though. I'm glad my young nephews have had a chance to play in it.


----------



## rosgr63

George and Glenn, I am not looking and I am not thinking either.
 I am just concentrating on my tubes.


----------



## Neogeo333

Thank God I left NY 2 weeks ago.  I hated the first snow storm.  Back to sunny tropical weather in la Isla bonita.


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> I am just concentrating on my tubes.


 
 Stravos' tube thoughts: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## rosgr63

Steve you can read my mind, it's frightening................
  
 More tube photos later.


----------



## jc9394

oh my, hope you guys share...


----------



## rosgr63

Sure, my new CV575:

  
  
 And the *Boob Tube Twin*


----------



## jc9394

is that a rectifier?


----------



## rosgr63

Steve and I have been discussing Boob Tubes, but he posted the wrong photos by accident...............


----------



## longbowbbs

I feel like I have stumbled into the Spring Break thread!   Tubes....Tubes......not *oobs......


----------



## parbaked

Yes, we are now the tubes for boobs thread...someone needs to apologize to SO or at least send him some bubbly!


----------



## Oskari

neogeo333 said:


> Be careful if anyone is driving specially Stavros.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
  
 OMG.
  


rosgr63 said:


> Sure, my new CV575:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
  
 I may have some trouble concentrating but is that KB/*T*, i.e., (British) Tungsram?


----------



## Neogeo333

Ok back to posting tubes.


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> Yes, we are now the tubes for boobs thread...someone needs to apologize to SO or at least send him some bubbly!


 
  
 SO, once more I apologise.
  


oskari said:


> OMG.
> 
> 
> I may have some trouble concentrating but is that KB/*T*, i.e., (British) Tungsram?


 
  
  
 Hi Oskari, indeed it's *KB/T*
  


neogeo333 said:


> Ok back to posting tubes.


 
  
 Nice tubes George, the FIVRE looks like a 6SL7 and the little tag is from Paolo, right?


----------



## Neogeo333

Yeap, Cavallero.


----------



## rosgr63

For those who are wondering:
  
 Boob Tubes are the 596, RK60, 7193, etc, all of which can be used in the Glenn's OTLs.


----------



## Silent One

I have been silently contemplating in the last '48 hrs.' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We really should strive to keep this thread an inviting place for all members.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> For those who are wondering:
> 
> Boob Tubes are the 596, RK60, 7193, etc, all of which can be used in the Glenn's OTLs.


 

 You have a adapter for the 7193 ?
 I know you have the adapters for the other boob tubes


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Glenn yes I have one.
  
 Need to test them first before I hook them up.
 Need to check the adapter connections too.
  
 Need to stop posting get my Chauvin Arnoux out and get on with it.
  
 But you know how weak I am, I'd rather look at the pictures instead!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

neogeo333 said:


> Yeap, Cavallero.


 
  
 Small world George.................
  
*PS *I am going to leave you now, it's past my bed time, Lieven happy listening!!!!!!!


----------



## dminches

Stavros, besides the cool look, how do you like the 7193?


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> Small world George.................
> 
> *PS *I am going to leave you now, it's past my bed time, Lieven happy listening!!!!!!!


 
  
 thanks man! good night


----------



## GrindingThud

Domino plate 6520, nice! Where did you find that one?


----------



## Neogeo333

On ebay.  I have a feeling the seller didn't know why one has different plate than the other.  I still need to test them though.


----------



## GrindingThud

Great find, I missed that one in my ebay trolling. 


neogeo333 said:


> On ebay.  I have a feeling the seller didn't know why one has different plate than the other.  I still need to test them though.


----------



## Glam Bash

Is the 7193 a direct replacement for the 5UG like the 596 and RK60?
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


rosgr63 said:


> For those who are wondering:
> 
> Boob Tubes are the 596, RK60, 7193, etc, all of which can be used in the Glenn's OTLs.


----------



## rosgr63

dminches said:


> Stavros, besides the cool look, how do you like the 7193?


 
  
 David, I have neither tested or tried them out yet.
  


> Is the 7193 a direct replacement for the 5UG like the 596 and RK60?


 
  
 The 7193 is a BT replacement for the driver, and you need two plus an adapter to be able to use them


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> is that a rectifier?


 
  
 cv575 = u52 (as long as its the GEC tube that has it labeled, theres also a tiny cv575 that i think sounds like a regular 5u4g).


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quick question: How do you store your tubes? (in what?)


----------



## rosgr63

My tube storage method is:
  
*A.*First I test my tubes in a tester.
  
*B.*Then I take a photo (if I don't have one from the seller).
  
*C.*Next I clean the pins.
  
*D.*If I have time I run them for 1 hour in an amp.
  
*E.*Next I box them up with a record of the test data.
  
*F.*Then I store them in tool box style metal cases, in cardboard boxes, or display cases.
  
*G.*Last I keep a database in my computer for reference.


----------



## rosgr63

dubstep girl said:


> cv575 = u52 (as long as its the GEC tube that has it labeled, theres also a tiny cv575 that i think sounds like a regular 5u4g).


 
  
 There's other makers who made CV575's not just GEC.


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> My tube storage method is:
> 
> *A.*First I test my tubes in a tester.
> 
> ...


 
 you work a lot dear friend


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> Hi Oskari, indeed it's *KB/T*


 
  
 Cool! British Tungsram was an interesting little operation.
  

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/British_Tungsram_Radio_Works


----------



## rosgr63

alota said:


> you work a lot dear friend


 
  
 You know me too well my dear friend!
  


oskari said:


> Cool! British Tungsram was an interesting little operation.
> 
> 
> http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/British_Tungsram_Radio_Works


 
  
 Yes, and I was very lucky to get it NIB very cheap.
 Luckily not many people know.
 Thanks for the link
  
 And now I am going to take a few weeks off from the thread to concentrate on my tubes.
 SO I won't pollute your thread anymore.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> And now I am going to take a few weeks off from the thread to concentrate on my tubes.
> SO I won't pollute your thread anymore.


 
 Who is going to post the silly stuff.
 It will be a boring two weeks it is the pollution that is funny.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I call a strike!


----------



## Neogeo333

rosgr63 said:


> You know me too well my dear friend!
> 
> 
> Yes, and I was very lucky to get it NIB very cheap.
> ...


 

  
 Why you need to take 2 weeks?  This thread going to be quite without you.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Who is going to post the silly stuff.
> It will be a boring two weeks it is the pollution that is funny.


 

 Well if Stavros is taking a break then so am I. It's no fun without everyone here. Who's taken the silly out of Stavros?


----------



## Skylab

Stavros I hope the earthquake in Greece is not near you or any of your family.


----------



## Silent One

skylab said:


> Stavros I hope the earthquake in Greece is not near you or any of your family.


 
 +1
  
 Give us a sign or trace that you and the family all are okay. And that you're in the lab cooking up something....


----------



## Neogeo333

Hope your family and you are ok Stavros,  had a 6.4 here the other day and it was scary but nothing serious.  Hopefully you slept through it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

saw the email about the earthquake at work hopefully its not too bad, most aren't; anywhere from 1-3 earthquakes every couple days happening around the world.


----------



## 2359glenn

The earthquake was on a Greek Island and 11 miles deep.
 This was far from Athens so I am sure Stavros and his family are OK.
 If I thought there was something wrong I would have called him.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

very far from athens
  
  
                      == PRELIMINARY EARTHQUAKE REPORT ==



 Region:                           GREECE
 Geographic coordinates:           38.208N,  20.425E
 Magnitude:                        6.0
 Depth:                            18 km
 Universal Time (UTC):             26 Jan 2014  13:55:43
 Time near the Epicenter:          26 Jan 2014  15:55:44
 Local standard time in your area: 26 Jan 2014  07:55:43

 Location with respect to nearby cities:
 0 km (0 mi) NW of Lixourion, Greece
 61 km (37 mi) NW of Zakynthos, Greece
 87 km (53 mi) SSW of Preveza, Greece
 89 km (55 mi) WSW of Mesolongi, Greece
 289 km (179 mi) W of Athens, Greece


 ADDITIONAL EARTHQUAKE PARAMETERS
 __________________________________________________
 event ID                     :  us b000m8ch
 version                      :  
 number of phases             :  140
 rms misfit                   :  1.17 seconds
 horizontal location error    :  0.0 km
 vertical location error      :  3.6 km
 maximum azimuthal gap        :  39 degrees
 distance to nearest station  :  175.0 km

 Flinn-Engdahl Region Number = 364

 This is a computer-generated message and has not yet been reviewed by a
 seismologist.
 For subsequent updates, maps, and technical information, see:
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/usb000m8ch
 or
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/

 National Earthquake Information Center
 U.S. Geological Survey
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/regional/neic/


 ________________________________

 DISCLAIMER: https://sslearthquake.usgs.gov/ens/help.html?page=help#disclaimer


 This email was sent to -----------------------------

 You requested mail for events between -90.0/90.0 latitude and 
 180.0/-180.0 longitude (Default World Profile)
 for M5.5 at all times.  


 To change your parameters, go to:

https://sslearthquake.usgs.gov/ens/

 To unsubscribe, send a one-line reply to this message with:

 STOP---------------------------


----------



## jc9394

Good to know he is ok.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Stavros isn't reading the thread anymore guys, at least for the time being. He'll be back in a week (or 2) I suppose.
 Media here didn't report anything of an earthquake in Greece, so that usually means it's not that special or serious.
 That being said, I hope he's good, but I have faith.


----------



## parbaked

Yes, Stavros has reported that he and his are all fine!


----------



## 2359glenn

Stavros talked to me this morning.
 Him and his family are all well they all live in Athens 179 miles away from
 the quake.


----------



## dminches

I'd like to get a back-up pair of 300B to use to burn in my Glenn 300B.  Any suggestions?  Used is obviously fine.  I found this pair:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-PSVANE-300B-HiFi-Series-Vacuum-Tubes-Valves-Matched-Pair-/261313518263?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd77fdab7


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> I'd like to get a back-up pair of 300B to use to burn in my Glenn 300B.  Any suggestions?  Used is obviously fine.  I found this pair:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-PSVANE-300B-HiFi-Series-Vacuum-Tubes-Valves-Matched-Pair-/261313518263?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd77fdab7


 

 That is a good deal but your tubes should last a long time.
 I built the filament power supplys so the filament voltage comes up slowley
 at first then the full 5 volts kicks on.
  
 I don't know how those PS Vane tubes sound I am sure fine.


----------



## john57

2359glenn said:


> That is a good deal but your tubes should last a long time.
> I built the filament power supplys so the filament voltage comes up slowley
> at first then the full 5 volts kicks on.


 
 That is great Glenn! Slow filament voltage start-up.


----------



## 2359glenn

Also the amp uses TV Damper diodes for rectifiers.
 These tubes not only have fantastic specs 1000ma @ 6500 PIV they have a very slow worm up.
 So the 300B and C3g are fully wormed up before the B+ slowly comes up


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Ultrainferno

Can you believe this?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/201024729715
  
 Shocked.


----------



## rnadell

ultrainferno said:


> Can you believe this?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201024729715
> 
> Shocked.


 
 More $$$$ than brains !!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

So many cheaper tubes that sound better or as good...


----------



## Sko0byDoo

ultrainferno said:


> So many cheaper tubes that sound better or as good...


 
 But none will rectify at 60,000 ft


----------



## Ultrainferno

ok, I'll give you that


----------



## dminches

ultrainferno said:


> So many cheaper tubes that sound better or as good...


 
  
 But do they look at cool????


----------



## Ultrainferno

RK60 sounds better and looks almost as cool and costs under $30


----------



## jc9394

I need to love my sale to fleabay.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah i think 200 is the going price and 250 tops, 250 would be NOS/NIB and would still be pushing it.
  
 310 is an absolute rip, i hope it wasn't a head-fier here that bought it for that much. you can get a Cossor GZ37 for that price, maybe even a u52 or gz34..


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> Can you believe this?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201024729715
> 
> Shocked.


 
 HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Absolute insanity!


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> RK60 sounds better and looks almost as cool and costs under $30


 
 Just wait...They will start taking off real soon.


----------



## GrindingThud

Friends don't let friends eat sugarless gummy bears:
http://www.amazon.com/Haribo-Gummy-Candy-Sugarless-5-Pound/product-reviews/B000EVQWKC/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=byRankDescending


----------



## magiccabbage

its getting ridiculous now


----------



## 2359glenn

I have finished David's amp
 Specs
 Power 9 watts per channel into 36 ohms
 Output voltage 18 volts into 36 ohms
 Total harmonic distortion .1%
 Sounds great here are some pictures


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> I have finished David's amp
> Specs
> Power 9 watts per channel into 36 ohms
> Output voltage 18 volts into 36 ohms
> ...


 
 sweet - did you test it out on HD800? HE6?


----------



## Skylab

That's just awesome. Congrats to maker and owner!


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> I have finished David's amp


 
 Really nice work Glenn.
 I look forward to seeing it all lit up with David's KRs...that should illuminate the meters...


----------



## Neogeo333

Another great amp from Glenn.  The second pic from the top looks beautiful.  Clean, simple and love those meters.


----------



## jc9394

Very nice Glenn, now I need one. Wait I just spent my toy money on a lens...maybe later this year.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> I have finished David's amp
> Specs
> Power 9 watts per channel into 36 ohms
> Output voltage 18 volts into 36 ohms
> ...




Wow!

I don't know what is more impressive, the top or bottom. I love the look of the duelands. 

Thanks Glenn.


----------



## longbowbbs

David that is going to be a sweet addition! Congrats. and Great work Glenn!


----------



## magiccabbage

The date on the pic is 2011 - LOL. Marty mc fly


----------



## hodgjy

That is an amazing amp.  Glenn, you are a master craftsman.
  
  
 Quote:


2359glenn said:


> I have finished David's amp
> Specs
> Power 9 watts per channel into 36 ohms
> Output voltage 18 volts into 36 ohms
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

I am listening to it now going to leave it on all night
hooked to a tuner to do a little burn in time.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Very nice Glenn. Congrats David!


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> I have finished David's amp
> Specs
> Power 9 watts per channel into 36 ohms
> Output voltage 18 volts into 36 ohms
> ...


 
  





 Wait... no Black light illumination? We want 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 your secrets! 
  





 Your craftsmanship continues to delight and impress. Should dminches get snowed in, I'll contact him about taking temporary custody.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Our plan is still active, we will get hold of this magnificent amp and bring it back to Europe with us.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Our plan is still active, we will get hold of this magnificent amp and bring it back to Europe with This one


 
 This one is set for 120 volts.


----------



## Ultrainferno

That is ok. Stavros and me have convertors...


----------



## dminches

Lieven, I have placed your picture at every international airport in the US.  You will not be allowed into the country.  You could take a boat but I will have the amp by then.  Your only option is to enter through Mexico or Canada.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Private airplane mister.


----------



## rnadell

I am sure Lloyds of London will write a policy to cover this amp.


----------



## Neogeo333

Happy new year to all!


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> Happy new year to all!


 
 Hong Bao Na Lai


----------



## Neogeo333

> O
> riginally Posted by *parbaked* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Hong Bao Na Lai


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


>


 
 Look at Uncle George passin' out the Benjis...nice!


----------



## jc9394

Happy New Year...


----------



## wotts

jc9394 said:


> Happy New Year...


----------



## Silent One

neogeo333 said:


> Happy new year to all!


----------



## jc9394

wotts said:


>







silent one said:


>




Definitely will be doing a lot of them this weekend.


----------



## daigo

Ah, Lunar New Year, the time of year where I get constant nagging from family about my current unmarried status.  Gung hey fat choi to everyone!


----------



## parbaked

daigo said:


> Ah, Lunar New Year, the time of year where I get constant nagging from family about my current unmarried status.


 
 Yes, but that is the best time to say: "Lai See Dai Loi" and take the money!


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Definitely will be doing a lot of them this weekend.


 





 It seems lately I took my eye off the ball bowl. Because Gaiwans make nice gifts, I'm down to my last two. Should they become lost, broken or stolen, imagine the horror!  I'd be listening to late-nite Jazz sipping Jasmine Pearls from... Styrofoam?


----------



## daigo

silent one said:


> It seems lately I took my eye off the ball bowl. Because Gaiwans make nice gifts, I'm down to my last two. Should they become lost, broken or stolen, imagine the horror!  I'd be listening to late-nite Jazz sipping Jasmine Pearls from... Styrofoam?


 
  
 *shudders at the thought*


----------



## Sko0byDoo

daigo said:


> Ah, Lunar New Year, the time of year where I get constant nagging from family about my current unmarried status.  Gung hey fat choi to everyone!


 
  
 Happy New Year everyone!  
  
 Enjoy the single-life while it lasts...hard to justify Head-Fi hobby afterward...


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> Yes, but that is the best time to say: "Lai See Dai Loi" and take the money!




That is funny, exactly what my girls did this morning.


----------



## Silent One

daigo said:


> *shudders at the thought*


 
  
 So disturbing, I should do a playful vid for the next _Friday the 13th... _


----------



## 2359glenn

I have been listening to the amp I built for David and it sounds great with low impedance
 Headphones. The actual output impedance is 40 ohms that I think is a good match for
 36 ohm headphones. Been listening on the Denon AH-D5000 that Stavros gave me
 It is the best these phones sounded They are 21 ohms.
   What I can say about the sound is the amp has speed and control. I am not one that
 has fancy terms to say about the sound of something.
 I still think the Sennheiser 300 ohm phones HD650 and HD800 sound better on the OTL.
 But the Denon and Grado 36 ohm phones sound the best they ever have on this amp.
 The amp has been running for 3 days now running continuously to make sure there is
 no problems.
 I plan on packing it up tomorrow for shipping next week.
  
 My girl friend L was listening yesterday and she never listens to headphones and said
 David can't have the amp it is hers. It is her Valentines present.
 It is bad enough I have to worry about the Europeans Lieven and Stavros stealing it.
 Now I have to some how sneak it out of the house.


----------



## jc9394

Remember, happy wife/girlfriend happy life. We will need her to let you continue building amp for us, I don't think David will mind wait few more weeks.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Glenn's OTL is pretty good for low impedance as well, it drives HE-500 and Audeze LCD-3 with authority (though they can be a little too tubey for me at times), and it works well with TH-900 too!


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> I have been listening to the amp I built for David and it sounds great with low impedance
> Headphones. The actual output impedance is 40 ohms that I think is a good match for
> 36 ohm headphones. Been listening on the Denon AH-D5000 that Stavros gave me
> It is the best these phones sounded They are 21 ohms.
> ...


 
 Beware! Stavros may try to convince your girlfriend to deliver the amp to Athens! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I understand his mother can bake up some tempting rewards...
  
 Interesting about the low impedance cans and the 300B.
 They must love the current from those big Lundahls.
 Current Grados are all 32 ohm - the HP-1000 were 40 ohm.
 Let me know if you like to borrow some Grados to play with...mine are collecting dust since I got the HD600...


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> I have been listening to the amp I built for David and it sounds great with low impedance
> Headphones. The actual output impedance is 40 ohms that I think is a good match for
> 36 ohm headphones. Been listening on the Denon AH-D5000 that Stavros gave me
> It is the best these phones sounded They are 21 ohms.
> ...


 
  
 Forget the New York Times Crossword puzzle, you got a real puzzle inside the studio.


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> Beware! Stavros may try to convince your girlfriend to deliver the amp to Athens!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My girl friend L said all she needs is a hug from Stavros and his mother.
 That would be good enough to grab the amp and run to Athens.
  
 Thanks for offering the headphones but I will only have the amp one
 more day


----------



## rosgr63

Now that would be like using weapons of mass destruction......................


----------



## Ultrainferno

come on Stavros, we have to get this amp! (and welcome back)


----------



## rosgr63

Ultra keep quiet and hide....................I hope the shed is comfy and warm!!!!!!!!
 I am frozen already and is going to be a long stake out.
  
 Thanks Lieven, I didn't want to reveal our plans, not long to go now.........


----------



## magiccabbage

Some pics of a meet i was at today - some of the gear was DIY. You guys might like to see these. ¬


----------



## parbaked

magiccabbage said:


> Some pics of a meet i was at today - some of the gear was DIY. You guys might like to see these. ¬


 
 Do you recall who makes these speakers?
 Oh yeah and where's the beer?


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Now that would be like using weapons of mass destruction......................


 
  
  


ultrainferno said:


> come on Stavros, we have to get this amp! (and welcome back)


 
  
  


rosgr63 said:


> Ultra keep quiet and hide....................I hope the shed is comfy and warm!!!!!!!!
> I am frozen already and is going to be a long stake out.
> 
> Thanks Lieven, I didn't want to reveal our plans, not long to go now.........


 

 You guys only have one day to get the amp or convince L to grab the amp and head for Athens.


----------



## magiccabbage

parbaked said:


> Do you recall who makes these speakers?
> Oh yeah and where's the beer?


 
 a fellow headfier - these are still a prototype -   http://www.head-fi.org/u/38468/fran 
  
 they sound really good though, very impressive


----------



## Dubstep Girl

makes me miss my wa2.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> Some pics of a meet i was at today - some of the gear was DIY. You guys might like to see these. ¬


 





 With you being isolated from so many of us based in North America, it's great to see you get out and mingle!


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> With you being isolated from so many of us based in North America, it's great to see you get out and mingle!


 
 I remain concerned about the lack of food and beverages in the pictures.
 I assume MC was editing so we don't get jealous.




 ...and those white baffle speakers are sweet!!!!


----------



## Neogeo333

If I was there the fridge would be raided.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> With you being isolated from so many of us based in North America, it's great to see you get out and mingle!


 
 Yes it was a private thing, there was lot of gear and food.
 I should of taking pics of the cakes - there were 4 homemade cakes
 and enough food to fill an army, wait til i see can i find a picture. ¬
  

 That was about a fifth of the amount of cakes and pastries. 
  

  
 Also those huge wooden Electro stats behind the white speakers were very nice. There was a Record player that Fran built connected to them, it sounded great - Sam Cookes nightbeat


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> I have been listening to the amp I built for David and it sounds great with low impedance
> Headphones. The actual output impedance is 40 ohms that I think is a good match for
> 36 ohm headphones. Been listening on the Denon AH-D5000 that Stavros gave me
> It is the best these phones sounded They are 21 ohms.
> ...




I need to increase my security force. 

Glenn, this all sounds great. I can't wait to hear it.


----------



## parbaked

dminches said:


> Glenn, this all sounds great. I can't wait to hear it.


 
 Passport...check.
 Ticket to Athens...check.
 Stravos' address...check.
 Return ticket to Newark...check.
 You'll be fine!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> dminches said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, this all sounds great. I can't wait to hear it.
> ...


 
  
 Strategically, a decoy would prove more effective. I strongly suggest Glenn secretly route the cargo through my dispatch at LAX.


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Strategically, a decoy would prove more effective. I strongly suggest Glenn secretly route the cargo through my dispatch at LAX.


 
 First Glenn needs to sign the 300B up for a frequent flyer plan so he and L can earn enough miles to visit Greece again.
  
 As the EU sleeps the Left Coast plot heats up...


----------



## Silent One




----------



## rosgr63

The decoy:
  
 Mini cheese pies
 Mini sausage and mince meat rolls
 Cookies
 Pomegranate Juice
  
 See how long you're gonna last Glenn...........


----------



## 2359glenn

Your not playing fair Stavros.
 You know I have a weakness for these things.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> Your not playing fair Stavros.
> You know I have a weakness for these things.


 
 He is ruthless....


----------



## rosgr63




----------



## 2359glenn

Now L is cooking to counter your cheese pies
 Raspberry/Strawberry sugar cookies.
 And I have Pomegranate Juice Maybe not fresh picked from the back yard but it will due.
 You guys are forgetting I have 3 guard dogs and a mean horse to guard the amp.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> You guys are forgetting I have 3 guard dogs and a mean horse to guard the amp.


 
 The horse would scare me but I never met a dog that didn't like cheese pies...


----------



## rosgr63

Lieven is working on this, he's got great tactics and moves!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Lieven is working on this, he's got great tactics and moves!!!!!!!!!!!


 

 Has he seen what a horse can do with one kick.


----------



## 2359glenn

You best start working on L she controls all the animals she is outside now
 brushing the horse. Maybe I will go out with a apple to bribe the horse to listen to me.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Euhm Stavros, we have a small problem I think, I'm actually scared of horses. We'll have to switch to plan B.


----------



## rosgr63

I don't need an apple
  
 Just tell L her friends G and W say *Hi............................*


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Euhm Stavros, we have a small problem I think, I'm actually scared of horses. We'll have to switch to plan B.


 

 The horse weighs a mere 1200 Lbs or 545 Kilos a nice girlish weight.


----------



## rosgr63

This is Plan B Lieven, psychological warfare..........
  
 We get to eat the food at the end, can't get better than that..........


----------



## 2359glenn

Now you are getting unfair using her friends in Athens
 I am about to start packing up the amp now that I fixed the washing machine.
 You might start thinking of doing a ambush of the FedEx depot in New Jersey


----------



## rosgr63

Listen for a knock on your front door.................
  
 The SAS is ready for action, just waiting for you to finish the packing first!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

And this is for the doubting crowd ( I am one of them)
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread/195#post_10227765
  
 post 204
  
*QUOTE*
*Ok, Ok?  I have been doing some critical listening today.  Tomorrow I get my camera back!  I have a tripod.  Pictures forthcoming.  Listening, listening to a Decca release of Joseph Haydn Symphonie Nr. 92 G-dur,, Oxford.  Ok, ok?  I would not sell my USAF 596 for $596.  I would not sell at $1200.  The resolution of the violins is impeccable.  It looks like it has double thick glass too!  Btw I am running it on the Taboo MKII.*
*UNQUOTE*
  
 Lieven I think it's time we sell our 596's...............


----------



## Ultrainferno

for $1K I would send a home made cake with it


----------



## 2359glenn

Sell them they are not as good as a 3DG4
 You don't need a 596 in this amp.
 And Stavros you already have two PY500s/42EC4 another fantastic $1.00 tube


----------



## rosgr63

Bad Boy don't reveal all my secrets, there is a huge profit we can make from $1 to $1000
  
 Wait until we all stock up first.


----------



## rosgr63

Aldo there's a lot of crazy talk here, please don't read it and better still please don't blame me...........
  
 Ragazzo Cattivo is back.........


----------



## 2359glenn

Tell G and W I said hi back.    They can have anything I have including any amps that are here. 
 I do need some time with both as payment.
 Here is our Lady.  She CAN NOT BE BOUGHT!!!!!!!
  
 L


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Bad Boy don't reveal all my secrets, there is a huge profit we can make from $1 to $1000
> 
> Wait until we all stock up first.


 

 They are like the 3DG4 can't be used in anything except
 something crazy that I build they have a 42 volt filament.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Tell G and W I said hi back.    They can have anything I have including any amps that are here.
> I do need some time with both as payment.
> Here is our Lady.  She CAN NOT BE BOUGHT!!!!!!!
> 
> L


 
  
  
 She looks so good!!!!!!!
  
 I am kidnapping Glenn instead.....................


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> Aldo there's a lot of crazy talk here, please don't read it and better still please don't blame me...........
> 
> Ragazzo Cattivo is back.........


----------



## 2359glenn

Amp in box partially packed
 What are you guys going to do now


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> Amp in box partially packed
> What are you guys going to do now


 
 ...order a consolation pizza!


----------



## longbowbbs

parbaked said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Amp in box partially packed
> ...


 
 NO!! Don't start that again!.....


----------



## 2359glenn

What You don't like pizza
 That is un American or something!!!!!!!!!!!!
 People in the mid west don't eat pizza????????????
 They could have easily bribed me with pizza instead of going through all that trouble.


----------



## longbowbbs

Actually, I just finished some pizza.....burp!


----------



## Neogeo333

Glenn would you accept Brooklyn
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




pizza as down payment for my 300b amp?


----------



## dminches

Btw, open invitation to everyone to come over and hear the GAPE (Glenn amp planar edition).


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Btw, open invitation to everyone to come over and hear the GAPE (Glenn amp planar edition).


 

 I will come to listen again and have some New Jersey
 Pizza.  Hang out and BS


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Glenn would you accept Brooklyn
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> I will come to listen again and have some New Jersey
> 
> Pizza.  Hang out and BS




Absolutely. You and L have a place to stay here.


----------



## rosgr63

David best check inside the box before you sign for it.................


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> David best check inside the box before you sign for it.................


 

 What are you saying I am sending a box with a rock in it.
 Might as well be a rock it's as heavy as one.
  
 I think you got something up your sleeve on getting this amp
 I have at work and you don't know the address of were I work.


----------



## rosgr63

I am saying nothing, be careful where you park the car, you better keep watching it............
  
 Lieven and his team are ready..............


----------



## 2359glenn

How does Lieven know were I work??
 It is still in my truck for now.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Stavros, the amp-rock switch was a success. Plan C is still go, pickup where arranged. Over.


----------



## rosgr63

Good Job Lieven, Over and Out........


----------



## Ultrainferno

Btw, I have bad news Stavros, I'll mail you about it tonight


----------



## rosgr63

Are we "visiting" Clayton next??????


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> Btw, I have bad news Stavros, I'll mail you about it tonight


 
  
 What you got the horse instead?????????
  
 That's even better she's worth 5 amps at least........


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> What you got the horse instead?????????
> 
> That's even better she's worth 5 amps at least........


 

 What It is not even my horse it is L's I now have to make you guys 5 amps to get
 the horse back.
 hmmm she does eat allot it might be cheaper to let you guys keep her for awhile
 then give you the 5 amps


----------



## Silent One

Should I receive a text to go to LAX for pick-up, I'll remain _silent... _and route the amp to NJ as instructed!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I don't know about you guys in the US of A, but here in Europe (Belgium) we eat horse meat. Not that I'm threatening you Glenn, but you better make it 6 amps


----------



## Silent One

That's some kinda extortion!


----------



## rosgr63

7 is a better number.........yes make it 7 Glenn
  
 Lieven I think we hit the jack pot!!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Yes, "7" accounts for me.... thanks!


----------



## 2359glenn

Do you guys know that they still hang horse thieves in North Carolina.


----------



## rosgr63

We love horses Glenn........
  
 Besides she's disguised as a camel.........


----------



## Silent One

I didn't know that! I only eat flesh from the sea.... none of these land critters.


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> We love horses Glenn........
> 
> Besides she's disguised as a camel.........


----------



## Ultrainferno

silent one said:


> I didn't know that! I only eat flesh from the sea.... none of these land critters.


----------



## Silent One

So now I'm eating Seahorses and words?


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> Do you guys know that they still hang horse thieves in North Carolina.


 
  
 They also hang amp thieves.


----------



## Silent One

This is great to hear!


----------



## 2359glenn

When we get off work the horse better be there or you guys have some explaining to do.
 I think L will kick some butt. You guys won't be able to take her on. I wouldent want to try.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> They also hang amp thieves.


 

 I think so!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 The amp is safely in the office were I work waiting for FedEx to show.
 These guys don't know the address of where I work.  Stavros does have my work E-Mail though.


----------



## Blackmore

Oh boy, thats more than enough, as he works at ΚΥΠ
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


2359glenn said:


> Stavros does have my work E-Mail though.


----------



## rosgr63

I know your firm and I have the phone number too.
 I can always ask ("bribe") J to tell me..............
  
 Just as well we are not around when L will be kicking some butt.
  
 It'll be yours Glenn not mine or Lieven's..........


----------



## hodgjy

I really need to get one of Glenn's amps for two reasons:
  
 1) The sublime music
 2) So I can understand what's going on in this thread


----------



## rosgr63

Jay the first part is easy.
  
 The second part is like this: Myself and Lieven are trying to steal David's super amp.
  
 The third part I can't explain either, people talk about amps, tubes, cookies and pizza all at the same time.............


----------



## Ultrainferno

hodgjy said:


> I really need to get one of Glenn's amps for two reasons:
> 2) So I can understand what's going on in this thread


 
  
 You will need more then that to get to our level


----------



## 2359glenn

hodgjy said:


> I really need to get one of Glenn's amps for two reasons:
> 
> 1) The sublime music
> 2) So I can understand what's going on in this thread


 

 You will never understand what is going on in this thread   I don't


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> You will never understand what is going on in this thread   I don't


 
  
  
 X2, never understand the NY pizza thingy...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but they are damn good.  Need a short to NY soon to get a fix.


----------



## hodgjy

You guys are awesome. This may be the best thread on all HF.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I know your firm and I have the phone number too.
> I can always ask ("bribe") J to tell me..............
> 
> Just as well we are not around when L will be kicking some butt.
> ...


 
 Do you Reilly think you can hide in Europe from L guess what she knows were you live Stavros.
 And her friend G will pick her up if she gets lost coming from the Airport.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> X2, never understand the NY pizza thingy...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I will have to go just as far as David's to get good pizza.
 Grew up in NY with that pizza and sure can't get it in NC


----------



## kazsud

dminches said:


> Btw, open invitation to everyone to come over and hear the GAPE (Glenn amp planar edition).




I would like to hear the Leben


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> You will never understand what is going on in this thread   I don't


 
 I don't have a Glenn amp (yet) but I understand everything that goes on in this thread...except that stuff about TV diodes.
 I knew the GAPE had meters but I didn't see the TV!


----------



## rosgr63

hodgjy said:


> You guys are awesome. This may be the best thread on all HF.


 
  
  
 Jay I am one of the few mostly to blame for the non audio talk...........
  


2359glenn said:


> Do you Reilly think you can hide in Europe from L guess what she knows were you live Stavros.
> And her friend G will pick her up if she gets lost coming from the Airport.


 
  
  
 Now you hit a soft spot, you know too well.
  


kazsud said:


> I would like to hear the Leben


 
  
 Plenty Leben around, very few Glenn's amps.................


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> I don't have a Glenn amp (yet) but I understand everything that goes on in this thread...except that stuff about TV diodes.
> I knew the GAPE had meters but I didn't see the TV!


 
  
 TV diodes, what are they?????
  
 I can't even spell diode..............can I have them for breakfast?


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> TV diodes, what are they?????
> 
> I can't even spell diode..............can I have them for breakfast?


 
 I have no idea. Diodes weren't discussed in my comprehensive amplifier class (unless it was when I stepped out for a snack)...
 I don't think they are supposed to be inside amplifiers unless it is more of Glenn's monkey business!
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> I don't have a Glenn amp (yet) but I understand everything that goes on in this thread...except that stuff about TV diodes.
> I knew the GAPE had meters but I didn't see the TV!


 

 TV damper diodes were used in booster service in the horizontal output in TVs.
 They have the lowest switching noise of any diode SS or Tube and can handle
 high voltage and current.
 The meters are reading the cathode current of the 300Bs so you can set the bias.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Jay I am one of the few mostly to blame for the non audio talk...........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Stavros I think you are the blame for everything.
  
 L is not going to read all this until we get home. And the horse better dam well be there.
 or I will be taking L to the airport and you guys are dead.


----------



## daigo

2359glenn said:


> You will never understand what is going on in this thread   I don't


 
 If you don't understand what's going on, then we definitely don't!


----------



## kazsud

rosgr63 said:


> Jay I am one of the few mostly to blame for the non audio talk...........
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I've heard the Glenn OTL


----------



## rosgr63

One of them...........
  
 There's more than one type of OTL and 300B.
  
 Have you heard his 300B?


----------



## hodgjy

I've never heard any Glenn amps. That needs to change.


----------



## Neogeo333

I'm buying a book to learn to be a horse whisperer.  If that fails bring a bag full of carrots.


----------



## 2359glenn

David your amp is on it's way.
 Safely in FedEx hands they can't find it now unless they ambush the FedEx hub in New Jersey.
 And the horse is safe.


----------



## dminches

Whew. I was concerned about the horse once I heard Lieven mention that it was on the menu. 

Thanks for dropping it off. I cant wait until wed night!


----------



## rnadell

dminches said:


> Whew. I was concerned about the horse once I heard Lieven mention that it was on the menu.
> 
> Thanks for dropping it off. I cant wait until wed night!


 
 Can anyone else building amps make it so much fun??


----------



## 2359glenn

rnadell said:


> Can anyone else building amps make it so much fun??


 

 Are You ready for your monkey business amp??


----------



## Neogeo333

If you personally pick up the amp, Glenn can give you a horsy ride too. Ahh such wonderful customer appreciation.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Whew. I was concerned about the horse once I heard Lieven mention that it was on the menu.
> 
> Thanks for dropping it off. I cant wait until wed night!


 

 David when you set up the amp post a picture with those balloon 300Bs.
 Also don't set the bias over 90ma even though your tubes are rated at 100ma.
 The air gap in the transformers was set for 90ma going over that will reduce the bass.
 Running them under a 100ma will extend there life anyway. I was running the 300Bs
 at 75 to 80ma and my tubes are old so you will have to reset the bias.


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> If you personally pick up the amp, Glenn can give you a horsy ride too. Ahh such wonderful customer appreciation.


 

 George do you want to go horse back riding ??
 Just bring carrots and she will be your best friend.


----------



## rnadell

2359glenn said:


> Are You ready for your monkey business amp??


 
 How do I prepare for this adventure??


----------



## 2359glenn

Start drinking now then you will be in the right frame of mind to receive the amp


----------



## jc9394

What should I start drinking if I want something like David's amp?


----------



## rnadell

2359glenn said:


> Start drinking now then you will be in the right frame of mind to receive the amp


 
 I don't want to drown out all my excitement.


----------



## jc9394

Don't worry, I have checked in AA three times while waiting for my amp. It is well worth the wait, my HD800 never sound this good before.


----------



## Skylab

jc9394 said:


> What should I start drinking if I want something like David's amp?




Highland Park 18


----------



## Neogeo333

I'm not supposed to but this goes well with Glenn otl.


----------



## Silent One

So what's the Tangerine's role with Johnny?


----------



## Neogeo333

silent one said:


> So what's the Tangerine's role with Johnny?


 
 Ohh thats a Chinese new years thing.


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> So what's the Tangerine's role with Johnny?


 
 Vitamin C...prevents scurvy when attached to a Glenn amp for extended periods...


----------



## Neogeo333

parbaked said:


> Vitamin C...prevents scurvy when attached to a Glenn amp for extended periods...


 
 I think Glenn amps produces vitamin q?


----------



## rosgr63

dminches said:


> Whew. I was concerned about the horse once I heard Lieven mention that it was on the menu.
> 
> Thanks for dropping it off. I cant wait until wed night!


 
  
 I like it David, my nephew will be over then and he means business.
  


rnadell said:


> Can anyone else building amps make it so much fun??


 
  
*NO!!!!!!!!!!!!*
  


parbaked said:


> Vitamin C...prevents scurvy when attached to a Glenn amp for extended periods...


 
  
 I thought it was vitamins B&T
  
  
  
 George you have some great ideas are you gonna join the task force?


----------



## Neogeo333

Im easy, wherever theres food involved im in.


----------



## rosgr63

Now it gets better, I am sure Steven is in too, the more the better.
  
 The horse won't be as easy to handle as the amp. 
  
 David can we come to adjust your bias?
 I know some KR secrets you might find useful............


----------



## Silent One

neogeo333 said:


> I think Glenn amps produces vitamin q?


 
  





 A nice Vague Sprague reference there...


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Now it gets better, I am sure Steven is in too, the more the better.
> 
> The horse won't be as easy to handle as the amp.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm all in as long as we don't upset L - she sounds tough!
 Can we stop for pizza on the way to David's?
 David...what exit?


----------



## dminches

exit 4


----------



## Ultrainferno

Don't bother guys, it will never get there. Right Stavros?


----------



## parbaked

Lieven, the amp is in the 1st white van...so you know where to aim the transporter...


----------



## rosgr63

Wow, What a fantastic team I have!!!!!!
  
 All has been taken care off so swiftly.
  
 All but L, now I must be extremely nice to her............I am bringing re enforcements G+W+Mama
  
 George that's my second in command during one to one training and confidence building exercises.......
 I hope your misses won't hate me leading you astray................


----------



## Neogeo333

Not to worry Stavros, the misses is very understanding.


----------



## rosgr63

Good to know she has a good sense of humour!
  
 BTW Amazons never wore any tops.....................


----------



## GrindingThud

Lol, fell for my favorite New Jersey joke....."hey, I know a guy that lives in New Jersey"......."really , what exit?" 




dminches said:


> exit 4


----------



## longbowbbs

Truly, if anyone new wanders into this thread atm, they will be SOOOO confused!   David, great pic of the police escort!


----------



## parbaked

longbowbbs said:


> Truly, if anyone new wanders into this thread atm, they will be SOOOO confused!


 
 Yes, we must censor George for his Vitamin Q comment...that was way too thoughtful!!!


----------



## Neogeo333

You know what they say, the more you drink the smarter you get.


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> You know what they say, the more you drink the smarter you get.


 
  
 That is good to know...let's call it 'night school' and proceed with our learning....


----------



## rosgr63

I like it, I'll be a good student, will never miss a lesson and will put them to practice.......


----------



## 2359glenn

Why not day school too there are allot of things that are as good during the day.
 Maybe better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jc9394

It is always 5 o'clock somewhere!!!  I like 24/7 school.


----------



## rnadell

I'm in forced retirement. Retired professional.


----------



## rosgr63

My kind of night school is with candle lights at the beach bar!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> My kind of night school is with candle lights at the beach bar!


 

 How about afternoon delight that is OK


----------



## Neogeo333

Stavros that a nice setting but it's missing something.


----------



## rosgr63

Missing a lot actually George!
  
 Waiting for the wise teachers to put their final touches........


----------



## rosgr63

Is this any better?


----------



## parbaked

Perfect...the stripper pole screams higher learning!
  
 Are those twins or am I seeing double again?


----------



## Neogeo333

Having lunch now, was thinking more in line with this. But that still very appetizing.


----------



## Neogeo333

Now I see why you were MIA those few days. You were getting your "education". But you can't tip your teachers with grilled cheese.


----------



## rosgr63

I was taking private lessons to catch up.
  
 Steven, pole dancing is mind elevating..........and included in the Olympics now!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Mind conditioning to pole dancing music


----------



## jc9394

rosgr63 said:


> My kind of night school is with candle lights at the beach bar!


 
  
  
 This reminds me of a pool party at Vegas...


----------



## rosgr63

No pole dancing???????


----------



## jc9394

What happen in Vegas stay in Vegas...


----------



## dminches

While you guys are talking about pole dancing I am trying to finish stuff up at work so I can pick up my amp which has landed safely in Cherry Hill at an undisclosed location.


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> Mind conditioning to pole dancing music


 
  
 How is your new T1 sounding on the OTL? Looks nice!


----------



## jc9394

I picked it up for you already. It is powering the Zu at the beach party now.


----------



## dminches

Hmmm, interesting given that it is only a headphone amp....


----------



## jc9394

we rewired it...


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> How is your new T1 sounding on the OTL? Looks nice!


 
  
 Thanks L, they sound good, nice bass the way you'd like it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have been very bad for Stavros's tube addiction collection.


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> we rewired it...


 
 Did you learn to do that night school?


----------



## rosgr63

L has been very bad to me Steven.
  
 He's showing me all the nice tubes and guess what I can't resist and I keep buying them.
  
 Like I am in the front row watching the "lessons" and L comes over saying now close your eyes don't look.
 Come on, I am no saint.
  
 L doesn't even know about the very rare black base U52 I got, I better keep quiet or else..............


----------



## Ultrainferno

And you know what I am getting you next week. I'm such a bad boy


----------



## rosgr63

I know you are very bad, I can't wait.............
  
 I need help. lots of help.........
  
 BTW here's the U52, Black Base, Inverted Cap Getter


----------



## jc9394

Very nice, you guys are so lucky to find them in EU.  Not much here in the states and it cost us an arm or leg.


----------



## rosgr63

It's L's fault, he's the bad one not me.........


----------



## Ultrainferno

but they cost a kidney here too!
 nice tube Stavros!


----------



## jc9394

rosgr63 said:


> It's L's fault, he's the bad one not me.........


 
  
  
 Old Chinese saying... "牛唔飲水點撳得牛頭低"  = "you may take a horse to the water, but you can not make him drink"


----------



## dminches

It certainly seems like you guys in Europe and east have more opportunities to find interesting tubes.  Lieven, do you just have a bunch of dealers/friends that you get your tubes from or are you just skowering the internet like the rest of us?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I spend a lot of time on Google doing querys and searching ebay, being creative with search terms. I also have automatic searches that email me when a new tube has been put up for sale. That's very easy. Besides that I have one hidden source I am keeping for myself. Just contact me if you need something and I'll see what I can do David


----------



## Silent One

Reviewing posts the last few days, it seems some of us need to have a little chat! Nothing wrong with party references, party girls and party guys. However, the _abundance_ of overtly sexual displayed pix challenges the integrity of this thread. This thread shall remain open and inviting to the female readership. Both registered members and unregistered guests alike, who may never post but do peruse the thread. 
  
 Back to our regularly unscheduled programming...


----------



## jc9394

SO, but but that makes this thread like the rest...  
  
 I guess you are right, we need to behave.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Ok, maybe the girls were a bit over the top, but remember to take the blue pills SO.


----------



## parbaked

ultrainferno said:


> remember to take the blue pills SO.


 
 Isn't that Viagra?
 I'm confused...back to school...


----------



## Silent One

You know what they say, too much of a good thing...


----------



## Neogeo333

Some of us been bad lately.  Now on im going to use the spoiler option to attach pics.


----------



## Neogeo333

Stavros did you happen to get the black base 6as7 also?


----------



## Ultrainferno

The Marconi one? Guilty....


----------



## Neogeo333

ultrainferno said:


> The Marconi one? Guilty....




Thanks to you my chances of getting a Glenn 300b is going up.


----------



## rnadell

dminches said:


> While you guys are talking about pole dancing I am trying to finish stuff up at work so I can pick up my amp which has landed safely in Cherry Hill at an undisclosed location.


 
 You lucky guy, but of course they say half the fun is in the journey. 
 Easier said than experienced. Enjoy, mine is next


----------



## dminches

Introducing GAPE


----------



## 2359glenn

Hi David
  
 Do you like the sound ?


----------



## dminches

Very much so, but I only have my "cheap" 300Bs in now and I am sure the transformers and capacitors need to be broken in.  But I can hear its potential.
  
 Glenn, the only thing you do better than building amps is packing them.  Great job.  Man, that box was heavy.
  
 More impressions to follow.
  
 Thanks for building this.  It not only sounds great but also looks great.


----------



## Neogeo333

Congrats David. It look soo good. 

Now anyone need an extra kidney?


----------



## Oskari

dminches said:


>


 
  
 That's fecking gorgeous!


----------



## parbaked

dminches said:


> Introducing GAPE


 
 WOW!
 She looks even better in her rightful home.
 ...waiting to see her with the KRs...when you are ready...




  
 - I hope you go out and get a big NJ pizza to celebrate!


----------



## dminches

oskari said:


> That's fecking gorgeous!


 
  
 That's the picture that says it all.


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> dminches said:
> 
> 
> > Introducing GAPE
> ...


 
 +1 !


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> +1 !


 
 The Silent One says, "no meat on that pizza and an XL side of bubbly, please..."


----------



## Silent One

dminches said:


> That's the picture that says it all.


 
  
 It looks even better outside the camouflaged box! What's the very first track to pass thru the 300B's today? And will the delivery route ever get published?


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> The Silent One says, "no meat on that pizza and an XL side of bubbly, please..."


 





 
  
 And it gotta be wide and thin so I can fold it!


----------



## dminches

Started with Garcia Grisman "The Thrill is Gone" followed by some Cannonball Adderley, Sonny Rollins and now Echoes from Meddle.


----------



## Silent One

Am I going to starve? I was suppose to start preparing dinner 20 minutes ago... still seated looking at that magnificent piece of kit! Maybe I'll order delivery and look over dmicnhes forthcoming playlist for the night.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Congrats David.  Enjoy it.
  
 If you think it sounds fine now, just wait.  Those Duelunds cook sloooooow.  Next month you'll be having your mind blown. 
  
 You'll know it when you hit that moment because you will stay up all night listening to it.  All night.


----------



## dminches

Thanks Tyrell.  I appreciate all the direction you gave me in designing this and pointing me in the right direction for various parts.


----------



## Silent One

Glenn really went _"Yard" _on this one! That proverbial baseball is still rolling around the parking lot...


----------



## jc9394

I want one!!! I want one!!! I want one!!! I want one!!! I want one!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

dminches said:


> Thanks Tyrell.  I appreciate all the direction you gave me in designing this and pointing me in the right direction for various parts.


 

 My pleasure.


----------



## Silent One

My tea tins are still empty...


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> My tea tins are still empty...




Same here, just emptied it for a super wide zoom lens. :mad:


----------



## rnadell

dminches said:


> Started with Garcia Grisman "The Thrill is Gone" followed by some Cannonball Adderley, Sonny Rollins and now Echoes from Meddle.


 
 Just played "The Thrill is Gone" wow only to be exceeded by your new amp


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Same here, just emptied it for a super wide zoom lens.


 
  
 Just emptied mine last Wednesday for the Apogee "Big Ben" clock. But I have 30 days to return it, so hmmm...


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Glenn really went _"Yard" _on this one! That proverbial baseball is still rolling around the parking lot...


 
 You are sooo LA...up here we know Glenn hit one into McCovey Cove...and they are still looking for it!


----------



## Skylab

David that amp is a work of art - congrats to you and Glenn. I'm looking forward to hearing it!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Just emptied mine last Wednesday for the Apogee "Big Ben" clock. But I have 30 days to return it, so hmmm...




How do you like the clock? Heard good thing about it.


----------



## GrindingThud

Just beautiful! I love each one as they are revealed...every one unique. There are enough in this thread now that would make a pretty cool coffee table photo book....or a glennAmp calendar. Ooh, a calendar, that would be so cool.


----------



## parbaked

grindingthud said:


> Ooh, a calendar, that would be so cool.


 
 Please, we have already been reprimanded by the OP...we CAN'T get started on potential calendar themes.


----------



## Silent One

grindingthud said:


> Just beautiful! I love each one as they are revealed...every one unique. There are enough in this thread now that would make a pretty cool coffee table photo book....or a glennAmp calendar. Ooh, a calendar, that would be so cool.


 
 Brilliant!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Please, we have already been reprimanded by the OP...we CAN'T get started on potential calendar themes.


 
 Nothing wrong with candy in moderation.


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Nothing wrong with candy pizza in moderation.


 
 FTFY


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> How do you like the clock? Heard good thing about it.


 




  
 I really like "Big Ben!" It has improved the signal coming from the USBridge and into the DAC. And will allow me to integrate other digital wares into the system all using the same clock. Maybe I should run back to Guitar Center for a refund and hand over the down payment to Glenn... 3 weeks to mull it over!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> FTFY


 
  
 I had a feeling my entry may have been _suspect. _


----------



## jc9394

I will go for the Glenn amp before the clock. That is just me...:veryevil:


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I will go for the Glenn amp before the clock. That is just me...


 
  
 I will eventually own both, so all is not lost... except the time to save up. I guess the tea tins will fill up sooner if I stop looking at 'em.


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> You are sooo LA...up here we know Glenn hit one into McCovey Cove...and they are still looking for it!


 
  
 Hmmm, let's see... a Ravine and a Cove, a Ravine and a Cove, that's a tough one! I do know from attendance that Chavez Ravine @ twilight is quite the picture!


----------



## longbowbbs

You guys! I come back from a day at work and find 200 unread messages!  (The pole dancers were a nice end of day bonus though!)


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Hmmm, let's see... a Ravine and a Cove, a Ravine and a Cove, that's a tough one! I do know from attendance that Chavez Ravine @ twilight is quite the picture!


 
 Yes, the Ravine is special...I just equated that amp with a 'splash' in the Cove...


----------



## rosgr63

neogeo333 said:


> Stavros did you happen to get the black base 6as7 also?


 
  
 Yes George, to complete my MOV Black Base collection
  
  


longbowbbs said:


> You guys! I come back from a day at work and find 200 unread messages!  (The pole dancers were a nice end of day bonus though!)


 
  
 Eric, stop it please.
  
 David congratulations, beautiful looking amp.
 Happy Listening.


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Yes, the Ravine is special...I just equated that amp with a 'splash' in the Cove...


 
  
 I'm with you on that. The amp, as well as The Cove and a splash in it, are indeed special.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Very nice amp David, look so nice. Well done Glenn!
 Did Stavros and me fool you guys about stealing that amp or what!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Wow that amp is NICE!!

Looks even better than wa5 i think.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Wow that amp is NICE!!
> 
> Looks even better than wa5 i think.


 
 + it is sweet. 3 Lundahls !


----------



## dminches

Tonight's listening session with GAPE includes the KR300B balloons.  What a difference as compared to Psvanes.  The mid range congestion is gone and the soundstage has opened up.  This is sounding really nice.


----------



## parbaked

So the with the Psvanes you have excellent NJ pizza but the KRs get you Vera Pizza Napoletana! 
 I know it sounds and looks fabulous - cheers!
 Balloon pics are always appreciated!


----------



## magiccabbage

dminches said:


> Tonight's listening session with GAPE includes the KR300B balloons.  What a difference as compared to Psvanes.  The mid range congestion is gone and the soundstage has opened up.  This is sounding really nice.


 
 you got much more 300b's to roll?


----------



## 2359glenn

Glad you like I guess I will get a pair of KRs


----------



## dminches

magiccabbage said:


> you got much more 300b's to roll?


 
  
 No.  All I have are the Psvanes and the KR300s.  And the KR300s are not coming out of the amp.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> Glad you like I guess I will get a pair of KRs


 
  
 Glenn you really need to.  These are really nice tubes.


----------



## Silent One

dminches said:


> Tonight's listening session with GAPE includes the KR300B balloons.  What a difference as compared to Psvanes.  The mid range congestion is gone and the soundstage has opened up.  This is sounding really nice.


 
  
 With your drifting atop fluffy and billowy clouds, no need to be disturbed. Have your mate handle the photography for us!


----------



## parbaked

dminches said:


> And the KR300s are not coming out of the amp.


 
 That might be the best way to roll tubes.
 Get the KRs and roll with them!


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> Tonight's listening session with GAPE includes the KR300B balloons.  What a difference as compared to Psvanes.  The mid range congestion is gone and the soundstage has opened up.  This is sounding really nice.




Humm... Boston to Penn Station is 3.5 hours... Glenn GAPE and NY pizza, need to check my weekend schedule.


----------



## dminches

The only other current production 300Bs that gets better reviews than the KR300Bs are the Takatsuki TA-300Bs.  I can't believe what has happened to the Yen/USD.  A pair of those now cost over $3000.  I think 6 months ago with were under $2000.


----------



## jc9394

It is much cheaper last Nov, I ordered a pair at $1,600 while I was in Osaka but cancelled the order when I decided to sell the WA5LE.


----------



## dminches

Yea.  The price increase is startling.


----------



## jc9394

The KR looks really nice, need more pics!!!


----------



## Skylab

I'm really not sure there has ever been a headphone amp that looked cooler than that.


----------



## Silent One

Incoming... _WA might wanna duck. _Industrial Chic, baby!


----------



## wotts

I can't get enough of that amp. It's beautiful!


----------



## john57

It is one of the coolest looking amp I have seen by Glenn.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

NEW CAR!!!!!

2014 mercedes benz cla 250!


----------



## wotts

Well done! They have been turning my head since it was released. I know you'll love it!
  
  
 edit: Also, is that the metallic white? I looked at a C230 in that color.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Gorgeous car, I was planning on buying a CLA too! But was it worth selling everything for?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

We will see!!!


----------



## rosgr63

dminches said:


> Glenn you really need to.  These are really nice tubes.


 
  
 I am pleased you like the KR300's David, they are good value for money.
  
 When you had enough of them I'll suggest a different type that I think you'll like.
  
 Happy Listening


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wotts said:


> Well done! They have been turning my head since it was released. I know you'll love it!
> 
> 
> edit: Also, is that the metallic white? I looked at a C230 in that color.





Its cirrus white

Wish they had diamond white metallic, maybe that will be an option later, or only reserved for higher models


----------



## rosgr63

I thought we were talking about Glenn's amps and audio gear essentials like tubes, girls and pizza in this thread not cars...........


----------



## Ultrainferno

It's all going downhill from now on Stavros. Just like the slopes in Sochi for the winter games


----------



## rosgr63

Bad Boy you better not start me with cars you'll be very sorry ask Damos he knows..........


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> NEW CAR!!!!!
> 
> 2014 mercedes benz cla 250!


 




 Keep it gassed and waxed!


----------



## Silent One

Family planning--
  
 I think it's time to plan for the lonely first gen 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk_ to get a sibling.


----------



## longbowbbs

Did somebody move the calendar? Is it Christmas? Awesome amps and cars must mean Christmas!!


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> NEW CAR!!!!!
> 
> 2014 mercedes benz cla 250!


 
  
 Sweet ride, you will definitely love it.


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Family planning--
> 
> I think it's time to plan for the lonely first gen 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk_ to get a sibling.


 
 I'm confused...isn't adding siblings the opposite of family planning???
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Are you thinking of a beast to drive the HE-6?
  
 Meantime, nestle the _Silver Hawk_ in between your beautiful _Sin Twins_ and no more lonely!


----------



## Neogeo333

rosgr63 said:


> Bad Boy you better not start me with cars you'll be very sorry ask Damos he knows..........




Cars? What cars, I exclusively drive minivans to haul Glenn amps.


----------



## rosgr63

X2!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Cars? What cars, I exclusively drive minivans to haul Glenn amps.


 

 Don't you need a Boat to get home from here.
 Then the long walk carrying a heavy amp to your house.


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> I thought we were talking about Glenn's amps and audio gear essentials like tubes, girls and pizza in this thread not cars...........


 

 tubes, girls and pizza?
 i don´t know about this stuffs....


----------



## parbaked

alota said:


> tubes, girls and pizza?
> i don´t know about this stuffs....


 
 It's easy...if you buy a Glenn amp you attract girls who bring pizza...that's the monkey business...


----------



## Neogeo333

Ohh yes, the SS Dingy. But I'll need your horse to pull the wagon up to my house.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Don't you need a Boat to get home from here.
> Then the long walk carrying a heavy amp to your house.


 
  
 I'll get the boat sorted out, George will provide the food and drink.
  


alota said:


> tubes, girls and pizza?
> i don´t know about this stuffs....


 
  
 Aldo my dear friend why are you doing this to me?
  


parbaked said:


> It's easy...if you buy a Glenn amp you attract girls who bring pizza...that's the monkey business...


 
  
  
 That's how the fun starts.......
  


neogeo333 said:


> Ohh yes, the SS Dingy. But I'll need your horse to pull the wagon up to my house.


 
  
 Don't worry we'll think of something, we have lots of friends we'll get together and pull the wagon.
 The horse is too valuable remember?
 She's worth 7 amps at least..........


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> *I'm confused...isn't adding siblings the opposite of family planning???*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




 I was up all night... went to bed @ 0900 hrs and it shows! Currently the 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk_ is positioned on the left side, Shindo Sinhonia's in the middle and the big Sansui on the right. I moved "1 February" to a new rental but the audio rig is still inside the hotel suite until Valentine's Day. I still return to the suite for overnight sessions but will pull the plug next week. Still visualizing the placement of gears inside the listening room.
  


neogeo333 said:


> Cars? What cars, I exclusively drive minivans to haul Glenn amps.


 


rosgr63 said:


> X2!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  
 Cars and getaway vans? This reminds me of the chase scenes in the film "Ronin" (Jean Reno, Robert DeNiro...)


----------



## alota

parbaked said:


> It's easy...if you buy a Glenn amp you attract girls who bring pizza...that's the monkey business...


 
  
 seems easy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





rosgr63 said:


> Aldo my dear friend why are you doing this to me?


 
 i´m a sicilian provincial guy, i don´t know this modern things


----------



## Silent One

This couple could order a single 2359glenn 300B amp and would only need to remind themselves of their respective power output tubes to purchase.


----------



## rosgr63

alota said:


> seems easy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 And I am a little angel that just landed in head-fi land............. 
  

  
  


silent one said:


> This couple could order a single 2359glenn 300B amp and would only need to remind themselves of their respective power output tubes to purchase.


 
  
  
 I wonder what they'll choose.......


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> And I am a little angel that just landed in head-fi land.............
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 "Little angel" yeah.... on what day?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll throw honey a hypothetical tonight! But I can tell you in advance, I'd encourage her to buy the best of the best 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and would then simply have 'em in my rotation.


----------



## rosgr63

SO, that leaves them with one option only...........what a shame!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Not really. I'd buy the less expensive glass to roll and explore. And would exploit take the opportunity to use her purchase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




for security.


----------



## rosgr63

Now you are talking.............I thought they didn't like rolling.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just can't wait to go to the tube store next friday, He's letting me run free in the warehouse. free!


----------



## dminches

you suck.
  
 take pictures
  
 buy a lot of tubes


----------



## Ultrainferno

Need anything David?


----------



## Silent One

It's all in the presentation! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sometimes, those who care about us need encouragement._ "Honey, we should replace the light bulbs in the listening room. I found a fantastic pair online guaranteed to last 100K hours from Japan! (Takasuki)"  _


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> It's all in the presentation!   Sometimes, those who care about us need encouragement. _"Honey, we should replace the light bulbs in the listening room. I found a fantastic pair online guaranteed to last 100K hours from Japan! (Takasuki)"  _




Hey, that was my line. I almost pull that off...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Hey, that was my line. I almost pull that off...


 
  
 That post was actually a tribute to you.


----------



## jc9394

When she saw the package DG ship me, she just rolled her eyes and said "more old light bulbs?"


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> When she saw the package DG ship me, she just rolled her eyes and said "more old light bulbs?"


 
  
 I know you're very good to her. I previously worked 1 block west of Rodeo Drive from the Louis Vuitton store. Let's just say I've seen the "Revenge on Rodeo" act up front and in real-time... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it ain't pretty!


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Ohh yes, the SS Dingy. But I'll need your horse to pull the wagon up to my house.


 

 How do we get the horse from the mainland to PR


----------



## Neogeo333

Island hopping? I heard horses make good swimmers. 

We got a good track here. Maybe we can make it the next triple crown.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> And I am a little angel that just landed in head-fi land.............


 
*What you angel* if anybody knows better it's me you are definitely not a angel.
 Not saying that I am any better.        L seen this and is still laughing.


----------



## dminches

ultrainferno said:


> Need anything David?


 
  
 Not really.  I am just jealous that you get to hang out in the candy store.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> *What you angel* if anybody knows better it's me you are definitely not a angel.
> Not saying that I am any better.        L seen this and is still laughing.


 
  
 You and L know too well.
  
 This is more like me:


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> And I am a little angel that just landed in head-fi land.............
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 yes i know: a truly angel!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Like Miguel with his sling aiming at my tubes.................


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> Like Miguel with his sling aiming at my tubes.................


 

 right!!!


----------



## rosgr63

That's me defending the 300..........


----------



## Ultrainferno

What type of listeners are you guys?
  
 1. I just need to hear music
 2. I just need to enjoy my music, quality isn't that important
 3. I want to hear good detail
 4. I pay attention to micro details
 5. I want micro detail and I constantly look for it and listen to it. I compare music and hardware to find this.
 6. I have golden ears. only the best for me as I can find all the little differences


----------



## rosgr63

As you have guessed by now and sorry to disappoint you I am Type 1.


----------



## 2359glenn

I am more a type 3 but just like the music.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm more of a 4 but when working I am a 5. I'm going for 6 though but the training is tough. This might sound vague but I can tell more next week!


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> What type of listeners are you guys?
> 
> 
> 
> ...






1. I have music on whenever I can.


2. Most of the time I am just enjoying listening.


3. when I am done with my work day I can up the quality and really dig in for a good night's session.


4. I enjoy switching between HP's and speakers


5. Car speakers suck....JH16's rule while driving.


6. I am surprised how much detail I can hear after 50 years of heavy metal!


----------



## jc9394

Woah, JH while driving? Hope you have the whole road by yourself.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i used to drive with IEMs on as well, mostly on longer drives, like on 6 hour drives when i would drive home from college.
  
 now of course, new car has really nice sound, i'm actually surprised how good the sound system is on the CLA 250. much better than my coworkers Maxima or my old Corolla lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just the right amount of bass and great clarity.


----------



## longbowbbs

The JHq6's turn my Prius into a Lexus....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

longbowbbs said:


> The JHq6's turn my Prius into a Lexus....


 
  
  

  
+
  

  
=


----------



## Ultrainferno

Nope. Still a Prius.


----------



## jc9394

Driving with both earbug are illegal in MA


----------



## longbowbbs

DG, that is exactly what I am talking about!
  
 JC....Not illegal in WI!....
  
 Ultra....275,000 miles and still getting 50 miles per gallon......I love this car!


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> I'm more of a 4 but when working I am a 5. I'm going for 6 though but the training is tough. This might sound vague but I can tell more next week!


 

 What is happening next week?


----------



## rnadell

rosgr63 said:


> As you have guessed by now and sorry to disappoint you I am Type 1.


 
 How can you be a one and have such a love for light bulbs??


----------



## Dubstep Girl

longbowbbs said:


> DG, that is exactly what I am talking about!
> 
> JC....Not illegal in WI!....
> 
> Ultra....275,000 miles and still getting 50 miles per gallon......I love this car!


 
  
 yeah i've heard prius' last forever.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

dubstep girl said:


> i used to drive with IEMs on as well, mostly on longer drives, like on 6 hour drives when i would drive home from college.
> 
> now of course, new car has really nice sound, i'm actually surprised how good the sound system is on the CLA 250. much better than my coworkers Maxima or my old Corolla lol
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, congrats on the new car....big upgrade for car, how about an amp/headphone set upgrade now???


----------



## alota

jc9394 said:


> Driving with both earbug are illegal in MA


 

 i think that is illegal in many countries


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sko0bydoo said:


> Wow, congrats on the new car....big upgrade for car, how about an amp/headphone set upgrade now???




Thanks! Yeah coming from a 2003 corolla its a big step up. Car was pretty expensive though but im really enjoying it.

No upgrade for now, maybe hd 800 or audeze repurchase thats about it, might buy a stratus from a fellow head fier in a couple months though


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> What type of listeners are you guys?
> 
> 1. I just need to hear music
> 2. I just need to enjoy my music, quality isn't that important
> ...


 
  
 True Chameleon. Can change and adapt to any one or combination of any of them - a time a place for each. Though, 1-3 most often times when writing, reading, eating and/or relaxing. Regarding your training, will your presentation be a video exclusive?


----------



## rosgr63

SO do you get down as low as me?????
  
 Wow that's a big surprise, I can tell you're having lots of fun listening to music.


----------



## Ultrainferno

No video, just something for the freaks (like me)


----------



## rosgr63

By popular demand we want a video.
  
 If you don't I'll post one instead and you'll be embarrassed.......


----------



## Ultrainferno

Before you do that, you have no idea what Damos has been telling me last friday over coffee...


----------



## rosgr63

You better work on the video, no excuses................


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> SO do you get down as low as me?????
> 
> Wow that's a big surprise, I can tell you're having lots of fun listening to music.


 
  
 My audio rig is nothin' but a big ol' transporter! Often sweeping me toward full restoration. Some of the artists residing in the music library command my complete attention and study, the Janos Starkers if you would. Other artists, your James Brown, Marvin Gaye and the likes, allow me to complete my studies early. Leaving me free 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




to make the listening room sweat!


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> rosgr63 said:
> 
> 
> > SO do you get down as low as me?????
> ...


 
 Beam me up Captain!


----------



## rosgr63

Nice.
 I was listening to my Barry White digitised vinyl collection last night.


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Before you do that, you have no idea what Damos has been telling me last friday over coffee...


 
  
 Help! You're just the person I need to talk to. With you being mere metres from Paris, I'm having trouble finding info on my vintage airmail stamp in my avatar. Cannot seem to learn when the stamp was first issued and where I can get some now. I've a strong feeling you would know something or could point my rat mouse in the right direction. I tried the search engine Google but Google gagged on the results. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
 Update :   :  I'm sleepy. Just realized I should try La Poste on Monday. My French is a bit suspect, though.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have been listening to noise files , I kid you not


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Nice.
> I was listening to my Barry White digitised vinyl collection last night.


 





 One day, you and are going to have to establish a Network Share over the net. You do some good living and listening over there!


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> I have been listening to noise files , I kid you not


 
  
 I sometimes listen to my IsoTek files during warm-up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now that's some freaky (edit) right there!


----------



## rosgr63

I like your Avatar SO.
  
 You'll be so impressed by my Motown collection, I grew up listening to it.
  
 I never used my Iso Tek files for years..........I almost forgot I had it.
  
 Meeting with you will be like another dream coming true my dear friend.


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> I like your Avatar SO.
> 
> You'll be so impressed by my Motown collection, I grew up listening to it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks. For years, I had a personal email address at paris.org in the city of Paris. But a few years ago, the city through Eminent Domain, booted ALL non city government employees so they could re-issue the domain addresses. Treating me like The Americain.... okay wait, maybe they got that part right! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, one of the contributing writers and novelist (I met her in LA at a book signing - the author of "French Toast") used the stamp as a heading for her column... I loved it! But she could never tell me much about except she found it on the web. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And so the search continues...
  
 It'd be great to meet you as well. Maybe year-end I'll skip across a pond or two. And join Glenn. Not sure he'll wanna travel with me once he finds out I want to take his partner's horse to race at the track. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Shhhh... quiet!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Now I'll try and research your Avatar, I'll ask my French friends.
  
 Your plan sounds so good, I won't even think about it until nearer the time!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

I really appreciate the help. I'll also bang on the door of La Poste, Monday (virtually speaking).


----------



## Ultrainferno

What is it you want to know about it? Looks just like a stamp we use for air mail... Or am I missing something?


----------



## rosgr63

L can you find out when it was first released, or who the artist was?
  
 Than we are done.


----------



## Oskari

This one is pretty close: http://www.behr.fr/illus_vso22/1517.jpg


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Oskari, it looks the same, so it was released in the 30's from the post date.
  
 What tube was made in France in the same era?


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Hi Oskari, it looks the same, so it was released in the 30's from the post date.
> 
> What tube was made in France in the same era?


 
  
 Thanks everyone! Now going to see if I can buy some; make notecards for my personal correspondences. Some company formerly did this but haven't since last year.


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> What tube was made in France in the same era?


 
  
 Many, in part because manufacturers used their own type numbers.
  

http://www.hupse.eu/radio/tubes/R89.htm
http://www.tsf-radio.org/pg.php?p=6


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for the links.
  
 I have tubes by Visseaux, Fotos Grammont and Dario but never heard of Record, Gecovalve and Vatea before.


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> I have tubes by Visseaux, Fotos Grammont and Dario but never heard of Record, Gecovalve and Vatea before.


 
  
  
 Oh, not all the brands/manufacturers listed there were French.
  
  
 I'm fairly certain you have seen the Gecovalve brand of GEC.
  

http://rakumeischa.cocolog-nifty.com/photos/uncategorized/2012/06/20/gec_px41_2.jpg
  
 Vatea was a Hungarian manufacturer taken over by Philips in 1928.
  

http://www.vacumtubes.hu/cikkek/vatea/vatea_dgp3_2.jpg
  
 Record, or Radio-Record, was a Dutch brand of Gloeilampenfabriek Radium. They actually cooperated with Tungsram.
  

http://www.hupse.eu/radio/tubes/RRR134.htm


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Oskari, great links!
 Now that makes sense, I thought they were French makes and got very confused.
  
 When did Neotron get into business?


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> When did Neotron get into business?


 
  
 That seems to be a difficult question to answer. Tyne (Saga of the Vacuum Tube) doesn't mention Neotron.
  
 Now I don't even know for certain whether Neotron was a manufacturer or not. Some say it was a stockist rather than manufacturer.


----------



## rosgr63

The thing is they made some 6SN7's with very unique plate structures I never seen before.
  
 I'll ask Bruno my French tube guru.


----------



## Oskari

Please do.
  
 Here is what they offered 60 years ago.
  

http://frank.yueksel.org/other/Neotron/tarif-54.pdf
  
 The phone number probably doesn't work anymore...


----------



## rosgr63

No mention of the 6SN7 or 6SL7.


----------



## Neogeo333

Talking about Paris, my sister is going there next week for a couple of days. Anything special she can bring back? Like food or tube wise?


----------



## rosgr63

Bad Boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 I wish her Bon Voyage, I am sure she'll have a great time.
  
 I can recommend a couple of places when you decide to go ...............


----------



## Ultrainferno

Macarons! Best coffee biscuit EVER made. Also eaten with bubbles.


----------



## Neogeo333

rosgr63 said:


> Bad Boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I wish her Bon Voyage, I am sure she'll have a great time.
> 
> I can recommend a couple of places when you decide to go ...............




Don't temp me, but the wife is so attached. Gotta find a way to sneak out.


----------



## Neogeo333

ultrainferno said:


> Macarons! Best coffee biscuit EVER made. Also eaten with bubbles.



Last time she was there she brought some macaroons and my kids devoured them.


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> No mention of the 6SN7 or 6SL7.


 
  
 Off your carrots again, are you, Stavros?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  (The 6SN7 is there.)


----------



## rosgr63

George pretend you are sick when you visit the Louvre.........hopefully your wife will not want to get back to the hotel with you.
 The boys will be waiting for you to hit the town!!!!!!
  
  
 Sorry Oskari, the 6SN7 is there, I meant the 6SL7 like these:
  
 I do need more carrots for sure!!!!!!!
  
 BTW there are more than one type of 6SN7 made by Neotron.


----------



## rosgr63

Just got a reply from Bruno:
  
*Neotron was part of the Philips unit with their own factory, under RT division ( dario Miniwatt in Clichy, see photo ).
 Green color = Main manufacturer like RCA, National Union......*


----------



## Neogeo333

If memory serve me right, didn't Newton made a 6sn7 with big bottle glass? Sort of like the ecc32. Or was it a rebrand?


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> *Neotron was part of the Philips unit with their own factory, under RT division ( dario Miniwatt in Clichy, see photo ).*


 
  
 Thanks! Might have started as an independent operation, though.


----------



## rosgr63

neogeo333 said:


> If memory serve me right, didn't Newton made a 6sn7 with big bottle glass? Sort of like the ecc32. Or was it a rebrand?


 
  
 God made Adam and Eve.
  
 Newton made the apple.
  
 Neotron made tubes.


----------



## Neogeo333

Hehe, dawn auto correct.


----------



## rosgr63

And I made the boat to carry Glenn's amps.......
  

  
  
 I have the same problem George!


----------



## 2359glenn

I started making another amp but you might not want it it is A OTL that you already have.


----------



## Neogeo333

Nice Stavros, it looks to have plenty of space we can kidnap a certain horse. The ransom going to start soon I see.


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> And I made the boat to carry Glenn's amps.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 with this ship arrives in Lisbon and bring me an amplifier


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Nice Stavros, it looks to have plenty of space we can kidnap a certain horse. The ransom going to start soon I see.


 

 There is now an Electric fence around the horse now that was this weekends project


----------



## wotts

2359glenn said:


> There is now an Electric fence around the horse now that was this weekends project


 
  
  
 Funny thing, electric fences. My girlfriend has horses and they have those fences too. Hurts like hell when you step though and brush the wire.


----------



## 2359glenn

wotts said:


> Funny thing, electric fences. My girlfriend has horses and they have those fences too. Hurts like hell when you step though and brush the wire.


 
  Don't pee on it that will be a hole new meaning to hurts like hell 
 And this fence is to keep people out not keep the horse in. the horse
 is not going any ware she knows ware the food is.
 so I bumped it up from 7000 volts to 15000 volts
  
 Deal with that George & Stavros


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> There is now an Electric fence around the horse now that was this weekends project


 
  
 Is it tube rectified?


----------



## Neogeo333

We're marines we don't give up we improvise.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Is it tube rectified?


 

 No SS to charge the capacitor


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> We're marines we don't give up we improvise.


 

 Do you guys know I used to work on missile guidance to shoot down plains
 a relatively slow moving helicopter is a piece of cake to shoot down
  
 Now you guys done it this means war


----------



## GrindingThud




----------



## 2359glenn

I am looking through my tubes to find a magnetron tube for the intercept radar already found the thyrotron tube
 for the modulator.
 My neybor has an old X band dish that he is no longer using have to go get it after work tomorrow.
 This will due 170000 watt pulsed radar you guys are doomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Neogeo333

Stavros do you know how to ride a horse?


----------



## rnadell

You guys gotta give Glenn a break, he needs to finish my amp


----------



## longbowbbs

It looks like this could be a long war Richard!  Take the CSP2+ to the foxhole.....


----------



## 2359glenn

Ha HA
  
 No need for the missile
 I found the 1000000 watt magnatron tube you guys are toast
 After I get the dish I have to tie onto the 13200 volt primary lines to get enough power
  
 When Stavros and George fly over in there helicopter one pulse from the radar we will have Souvlaki and Teriyaki beef left.
  
 These guys don't know who they are messing with.


----------



## Neogeo333

Really? Time to set our secret weapon out. 

While the house is dark Stavros and I will get the horse and also Richard amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Now you made me bring out my secret wepon  L
  
 She is a witch you know born on halloween. And she is already mad
 at you guys for messing with her horse she is getting her broom ready.


----------



## parbaked

Guys, Glenn sound really serious. I am not messing with radar waves or witches (except sandwiches)!
 It might be smarter to steal a pizza oven and barter with Glenn and L using pizzas.
 Then we can have as many amps as we want!


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Macarons! Best coffee biscuit EVER made. Also eaten with bubbles.


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Guys, Glenn sound really serious. I am not messing with radar waves or witches (except sandwiches)!
> It might be smarter to steal a pizza oven and barter with Glenn and L using pizzas.
> Then we can have as many amps as we want!


 
  
 I differ from the Euro cats in that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I only want to sneak the horse out to race... and bring her right back!


----------



## Silent One

rnadell said:


> You guys gotta give Glenn a break, he needs to finish my amp


 
 Post of the day!


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> I am looking through my tubes to find a magnetron tube for the intercept radar already found the thyrotron tube
> for the modulator.
> My neybor has an old X band dish that he is no longer using have to go get it after work tomorrow.
> This will due 170000 watt pulsed radar you guys are doomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  
  
 We are not giving up that easy!!!!
 You covered air space what about under ground?
 George will bring some secret weapons with him, he just discovered them they'll sound amazing.............
  


neogeo333 said:


> Stavros do you know how to ride a horse?


 
  
 I can just about manage a donkey.
 George don't forget L can, we'll kidnap her too.


neogeo333 said:


> Nice Stavros, it looks to have plenty of space we can kidnap a certain horse. The ransom going to start soon I see.


 
  
 Plenty room.......
  
  


silent one said:


> I differ from the Euro cats in that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 You can race her as many times as you like after we get our amps.


----------



## rosgr63

alota said:


> with this ship arrives in Lisbon and bring me an amplifier


 
  
 This is a warrior ship only to get the amps out of the US mainland.
  
 We then come with the Love Boat to Lisbon and the amps will be ready for  you to choose.
  
 Does that mean you are giving up Solid State???????????????????


----------



## Neogeo333

had a huge laugh today on this thread and just finished catching up Top Gear UK.  Love those three morons.


----------



## rosgr63

Great program, I have been watching it for years.
 I have the DVD's given to me as presents.


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> This is a warrior ship only to get the amps out of the US mainland.
> 
> We then come with the Love Boat to Lisbon and the amps will be ready for  you to choose.
> 
> Does that mean you are giving up Solid State???????????????????


 
 you´re tempter!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Then I'll send M with his slingshot to break all your tubes!
  
*PS In case you convert I will keep you a quad Bendix 6080WB!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> *PS In case you convert I will keep you a quad Bendix 6080WB!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


 
 you´re tempter again.
 but i will resist


----------



## Ultrainferno

Oh can we bribe that easily with 6080WB graphite plates?
 Glenn, Can I pay my GR08 with these tubes?


----------



## Ultrainferno

New 596 on the bay:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/301093716016


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Oh can we bribe that easily with 6080WB graphite plates?
> Glenn, Can I pay my GR08 with these tubes?


 

 NO
 I don't like the 6080 rather have a Sovteck 6AS7


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> New 596 on the bay:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/301093716016


 

 I am thinking about selling my last one for $200
 Use it to make adapters now but don't sell many anymore.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> I am thinking about selling my last one for $200
> Use it to make adapters now but don't sell many anymore.


 
  
 You will sell that is seconds.


----------



## rosgr63

alota said:


> you´re tempter again.
> but i will resist


 
  
  
 What if I add a nice pair of 6SN7 drivers? 
  


ultrainferno said:


> Oh can we bribe that easily with 6080WB graphite plates?
> Glenn, Can I pay my GR08 with these tubes?


 
  
 You can easily bribe me for one of my SS amps............
  


2359glenn said:


> I am thinking about selling my last one for $200
> Use it to make adapters now but don't sell many anymore.


 
  
 Keep it in a couple of years it'll sell for $1000.
 And then Lieven will reveal a huge stock and the price will drop to $10............
  
  


jc9394 said:


> You will sell that is seconds.


 
  
 Agreed!!!!!!


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> What if I add a nice pair of 6SN7 drivers?


 
 AHHHHHRRRRGGGG!!!! i resist but is too complicated


----------



## Oskari

neogeo333 said:


> If memory serve me right, didn't Newton made a 6sn7 with big bottle glass? Sort of like the ecc32. Or was it a rebrand?


 
  
 Any ideas about this? There were Haltron-branded Mullard ECC32s, and there were Neotron 6J5Gs. Anything else?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i see nwavesailor is no longer offering buy it now on the mighty 596....heh heh.


----------



## Skylab

oskari said:


> Any ideas about this? There were Haltron-branded Mullard ECC32s, and there were Neotron 6J5Gs. Anything else?




Zaerix also rebranded Mullard ECC32's. And the ones labeled Chelmer, were they actually Chelmer made?


----------



## 2359glenn

My girlfriend L wants to know
 When you guys kidnap her were are you taking her
 Greece
 Lisbon
 Puerto Rico
  
 She don't know much about Lisbon but is pretty excited about
 Greece and Puerto Rico.


----------



## Neogeo333

skylab said:


> Zaerix also rebranded Mullard ECC32's. And the ones labeled Chelmer, were they actually Chelmer made?



Rca also had a ecc32. As does Adzam. Both Mullard rebrand.


----------



## Skylab

RCA had one? Wow never seen that. I have seen the Mazda ones.


----------



## Oskari

skylab said:


> Zaerix also rebranded Mullard ECC32's. *[* And the ones labeled Chelmer, were they actually Chelmer made? *]*


 
  
 Absolutely. Zaerix, Chelmer (CVC, a stockist, not a manufacturer), Bentley, 6202, Haltron, also Adzam, Philips Miniwatt, possibly other Philips brands.
  

http://www.head-fi.org/t/536785/ecc32-tube-addicts
  
 I was thinking that one could perhaps mix the two trons, Haltron and Neotron, up. There could, of course, be Neotron-branded Mullards as well.
  
 But RCA?


----------



## Neogeo333

Yeah RCA. Saw some on ebay many moons ago. They were labeled 6sn7 but had the fat glass shape of the ecc32. Maybe Stavros brought them since he always scores some nice rare tubes there.


----------



## Neogeo333

2359glenn said:


> My girlfriend L wants to know
> When you guys kidnap her were are you taking her
> Greece
> Lisbon
> ...




That love boat is on a world tour. With stop in PR first and Portugal second passing through the Gibraltar to Greece.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> My girlfriend L wants to know
> When you guys kidnap her were are you taking her
> Greece
> Lisbon
> ...


 
 You guys can bring her to my place....-22 this morning!


----------



## Oskari

longbowbbs said:


> You guys can bring her to my place....-22 this morning!


 
  
 I don't think the boat is an icebreaker...


----------



## Neogeo333

And I'm complaining about this 88 degrees weather, can't imagine -22. Lowest when I was in NY was single digit.


----------



## longbowbbs

HAHA...George we had -40 last week....-67 wind chill.....Winter in Northern Wisconsin....


----------



## Neogeo333

longbowbbs said:


> HAHA...George we had -40 last week....-67 wind chill.....Winter in Northern Wisconsin....



Your welcome anytime in PR, great destination for getting away from the cold.


----------



## longbowbbs

neogeo333 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > HAHA...George we had -40 last week....-67 wind chill.....Winter in Northern Wisconsin....
> ...


 
 There are days! Thanks for the refuge!


----------



## Oskari

neogeo333 said:


> Yeah RCA.


 
  
 That's difficult to believe. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 There is another contestant, a Triotron ECC34, at http://www.tangotubes.com/ecc35.htm.


----------



## Neogeo333

oskari said:


> That's difficult to believe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I couldnt believe it either.  RCA labeled 6sn7 with Mullard ecc32 shape.  Funny thing is I've seen them twice on ebay in last 5 years or so.


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> Your welcome anytime in PR, great destination for getting away from the cold.


 
 mmm...mofongo....


----------



## alota

2359glenn said:


> My girlfriend L wants to know
> When you guys kidnap her were are you taking her
> Greece
> Lisbon
> ...


 
 the kidnap is dangerous for me because my wife kill me.
 i´m available for a guided tour and for a typical lunch in lisbon
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 p.s.: including a good sicilian ice-cream


----------



## rosgr63

After PR The boat will stop at Las Palmas and then Estoril to pick/kidnap Aldo and his β22.
 Stop over to Sicily and then island hoping in Greece.
  
 I have never seen an RCA rebranded ECC32, but I have a Bentley Instruments ECC32 marked as ECC33, check this thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/536785/ecc32-tube-addicts
  
 Neotron made 5Z3 but their 6SN7s have unique round plates, I have two different styles.


----------



## rosgr63

Steven are you with us or against us????????


----------



## Ultrainferno

These sales might be interesting to some
  
 RCA 6336A: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171239923033
 RAYTHEON 6336A: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171239922449
 GE 1641: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251448064241
  
 Maybe Glenn or Stavros could confirm these 6336 are worth it (I have Cetron only)
 Good luck!


----------



## Silent One

Ken Shindo : :   : : 1939-2014 : : _May he rest in peace..._


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> After PR The boat will stop at Las Palmas and then Estoril to pick/kidnap Aldo and his β22.
> Stop over to Sicily and then island hoping in Greece.


 
 i like but don´t forget Miguel


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Steven are you with us or against us????????


 
 I'm in but we must fill the hold with good Port in Lisbon. Port prices are rising as fast as the price of the Mighty 596 boob tube!!
 Must count on Aldo to source Port for us along with some Sicilian ice cream.
 This is critical for the long voyage to Sicily and onto Greece.


----------



## Skylab

neogeo333 said:


> I couldnt believe it either.  RCA labeled 6sn7 with Mullard ecc32 shape.  Funny thing is I've seen them twice on ebay in last 5 years or so.


 
  
 I would suspect these were some sort of fake, frankly.  There were some fake ECC32 being sold a while back.


----------



## rosgr63

silent one said:


> Ken Shindo : :   : : 1939-2014 : : _May he rest in peace..._


 
  
 A genius may he RIP.
  


alota said:


> i like but don´t forget Miguel


 
  
 Miguel stays with me!!!!!!
  


parbaked said:


> I'm in but we must fill the hold with good Port in Lisbon. Port prices are rising as fast as the price of the Mighty 596 boob tube!!
> Must count on Aldo to source Port for us along with some Sicilian ice cream.
> This is critical for the long voyage to Sicily and onto Greece.


 
  
 You have some great ideas, I like them............


----------



## alota

parbaked said:


> I'm in but we must fill the hold with good Port in Lisbon. Port prices are rising as fast as the price of the Mighty 596 boob tube!!
> Must count on Aldo to source Port for us along with some Sicilian ice cream.
> This is critical for the long voyage to Sicily and onto Greece.



No problem for the porto( current production or nos  )


----------



## parbaked

We like current production ice cream.
 Porto should be NOS - just like our tubes - but current production porto might be useful for the mornings!


----------



## Neogeo333

skylab said:


> I would suspect these were some sort of fake, frankly.  There were some fake ECC32 being sold a while back.
> [/quote
> It must have been. But why label them RCA? It would be more appropriate to label them Coss or or at least Pinnacle. My guest they were made in Russia since they made a lot of tube for the UK.


----------



## Neogeo333

This is going to be some voyage. I'm afraid L after all the nice food and sightseeing Glenn would have a hard time getting her back. I reckon we can get way more than 7 amps now Stavros.


----------



## rosgr63

If they have the same structure like the original Mullard ECC32 it would be highly unlikely they were fakes.
  
 Philips wouldn't let that happen I would have thought.


----------



## rosgr63

neogeo333 said:


> This is going to be some voyage. I'm afraid L after all the nice food and sightseeing Glenn would have a hard time getting her back. I reckon we can get way more than 7 amps now Stavros.


 
  
  
 Glenn and Dvid better start recruiting, we're way ahead!!!!!!!!
  
 So much for the sophisticated weapons they have at their disposal.................


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> A genius may he RIP.


 
 Yes, Ken Shindo is a rare genius and gentleman with exceptional taste and values.
 Unfortunately, he cannot be replaced. It is a sad day but we can hope that his contributions will somehow live on.


----------



## Neogeo333

We can also stop in Cuba for some mojitos, witches love mojitos.


----------



## rosgr63

In that case I'll stay there for a while..........
  
 Now we have a flotilla


----------



## rosgr63

This is such a unique and wonderful thread.
  
 We are talking about amps, tubes, guided missile systems, music, pizza, cookies, ice cream, horses, ships, mojitos and girls all at the same time.................


----------



## Neogeo333

parbaked said:


> Yes, Ken Shindo is a rare genius and gentleman with exceptional taste and values.
> Unfortunately, he cannot be replaced. It is a sad day but we can hope that his contributions will somehow live on.




Another great legend, his legacy will live on. RIP.


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 Wow, was this taken at the 2359Glenn amp owners annual outing? Members are so diverse looking...nice crowd!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I love how that one guy is checking the girl out


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> This is such a unique and wonderful thread.
> 
> We are talking about amps, tubes, guided missile systems, music, pizza, cookies, ice cream, horses, ships, mojitos and girls all at the same time.................


 

 and slingshots for the tubes....


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> rosgr63 said:
> 
> 
> > A genius may he RIP.
> ...


 
  
 It should come as no surprise that his favorite quote was:
  
_"He who would go 100 miles should consider 99 the halfway mark."_
                                          - Japanese proverb
  
  
 The the artist and the man was flat-out driven!


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> It should come as no surprise that his favorite quote was:
> 
> _"He who would go 100 miles should consider 99 the halfway mark."_
> - Japanese proverb
> ...


 
  
 I will be writing that quote on the board here at work. That is an excellent way to view your work and the world.
  
 RIP, Ken Shindo.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> It should come as no surprise that his favorite quote was:
> 
> _"He who would go 100 miles should consider 99 the halfway mark."_
> - Japanese proverb
> ...


 
 I just had a look at the shindo website, those speakers - Shindo Latour, i think are the nicest speakers that i have ever seen.


----------



## parbaked

magiccabbage said:


> I just had a look at the shindo website, those speakers - Shindo Latour, i think are the nicest speakers that i have ever seen.


 
  
 Yeah, even the less dear Lafite are also lovely:
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






  
  
  
 Because of the Shindo craftsmanship and passion, owners often select likewise thoughtfully crafted speakers like the LaTours, Lafite or others.
  
 This is one of my favorite Shindo's systems from an A-Gon ad - so simple. 
 I can't remember who makes the speakers but I did try to persuade SO to buy them


----------



## magiccabbage

sweet


----------



## Blackmore

Speaker stands are Audio Note, speakers looks alike to, but not original AN, are they DIY?
  
 THX
  
 added: Ah, I see, already mentioned Shindo


----------



## Silent One

*  *** ROAD SHOW 2014 2015 ****
  




  





 Never too early to start good planing. Our resident designer continues to shine and has tremendous support. At what point and what show do we collectively push him onto to the big stage, say RMAF, "The Show," CES, Munich? Sure, some of his creations have turned up at regional head-fi meets. I'm talkin' 'bout his participation as a MOT with 2-3 killer amps to show. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let's help him crash the party!
  
 What say you?


----------



## dminches

Someone posted this in another forum and I was wondering what you guys think. "Your 1958 Dutch made (X marking) Philips production GZ-34 / 5AR4 was the first version made after the metal base. If you had this tube and a metal base GZ-34 (all were Philips production) side by side, the internals would be identical: Double 'D' getters and smooth plates. I have not taken the time to do an A/B comparison but others who have claim they sound similar, if not identical, to the metal base version."


----------



## dminches

Every session GAPE sounds better.  This morning I started listening and the first thought that came to mind was "wow."


----------



## jc9394

Very nice, after missing from listening for a week or two.  The OTL WOWs me last night, I can only dream how good your super duper GAPE sounds...


----------



## rnadell

You guys don'make it easy to wait on my amp !!!!


----------



## Silent One

rnadell said:


> You guys don'make it easy to wait on my amp !!!!


 
 Shall we distract Glenn a bit more? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I kid  I kid !!!


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Every session GAPE sounds better.  This morning I started listening and the first thought that came to mind was "wow."


 

 Glad to here that I think those Duelund caps are still breaking in.
  
 It is snowing down here supposed to get 6 inches before turning to ice
 This is a disaster here in NC. Most everyone left work Me and L are still here
 and might be the only two that show tomorrow.  You get it next David.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> You get it next David.


 
 I picture David hoping for a snow day to spend with the GAPE!


----------



## dminches

True dat!

I don't have to hope. It is coming.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnadell said:


> You guys don'make it easy to wait on my amp !!!!


 

 Your Gold Point stepped attenuator came in the mail today
 So we will see how much I can get done this weekend.


----------



## jc9394

Woah, gold point SA I want that on my next amp Glenn...


----------



## rnadell

2359glenn said:


> Your Gold Point stepped attenuator came in the mail today
> So we will see how much I can get done this weekend.


 
 Thanks,


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> Woah, gold point SA I want that on my next amp Glenn...


 

 That is what David has in the GAPE.
 A little pricy but worth it.


----------



## parbaked

dminches said:


> True dat!
> 
> I don't have to hope. It is coming.


 
 Just noticed your new avatar, proud poppa!


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Pardon for the ignorance, GAPE = ?


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> Pardon for the ignorance, GAPE = ?


 

 Glenn Amp Planner Edition


----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn said:


> Glenn Amp Planner Edition


 
  





.....


----------



## john57

2359glenn said:


> Glad to here that I think those Duelund caps are still breaking in.
> 
> It is snowing down here supposed to get 6 inches before turning to ice
> This is a disaster here in NC. Most everyone left work Me and L are still here
> and might be the only two that show tomorrow.  You get it next David.


 
 Glenn
 That has happen to me being almost the only one at work during a blizzard. Can not see much further than the hood of the car and the cars were getting stuck in snow drifts.


----------



## Silent One

I heard the storm hammered the South and broke hard left without yielding to pedestrians. It's headed North so dminches had better order pizza deliver to sit with GAPE while he can!


----------



## Silent One

Hats off! to all you snowbusters. Now, would you kindly ship some water from those snowpacks?





  
 - Thirsty in SoCal


----------



## Neogeo333

Better warm up those amps people your gonna need it.   
  
 God, even with fans blowing at full speed the heat is just bearable here.


----------



## Silent One

That's right cold of you!


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> That's right cold of you!


 
  
  
 Oh man, are you spot on! We had a heat wave today, seventeen degrees! Although, I will be in sunny FL next week. I'll see about bringing the weather back north with me.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I can't even remember what the sun looks like. Rain however: expert.


----------



## wotts

I've seen the sun, but grass? Ask me in April. I have 'many feets' of snow.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Tube question
  
 6080WB graphite plates
  
 What are the different plate structures?
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
 We have solid vs slotted but are there any others?


----------



## Silent One

We are dying for RAIN in SoCal.


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> That's how I've got them classed, and i have not taken into account the different coolers to keep things simple:
> 
> 1. Triangular Plates with Copper Rods.
> 2. Holed Plates with Copper Rods
> ...


 
  
 I just found this post from a wise guy. Do you have clear examples of each one Stavros?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/855#post_9800346
  
 I'm so awesome. I mean, Stavros is. I just wonder what type 5 looks like


----------



## john57

ultrainferno said:


> Tube question
> 
> 6080WB graphite plates
> 
> ...


 
 Of course there are others, rosgr63 is the expert. I have three and maybe four types in my collection right now. The slotted one above is a Rectangular type but I have the beveled slotted ones working in my amp. I also have a Bendix graphite with the crooked broken like edges on them as well for the rectangular solid ones. I am well stocked up on the 6AS7/6080 tubes for my needs.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks John, I posted more info from Stavros above also.


----------



## rosgr63

Lieven & John,  thank you for your kind words.
  
 This is not wisdom but addiction, I am no expert, I learn something new about tubes every day.
  
 Her's the 5th beast:


----------



## rnadell

Anyone attending the Headfi event this coming week-end?


----------



## Ultrainferno

No we're all attending the Glenn event in our listening rooms this weekend


----------



## rnadell

ultrainferno said:


> No we're all attending the Glenn event in our listening rooms this weekend


 
 Are you one of the fortunate ones that survived the WAITE?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I've had my 300b since July last year, you've got to jump on the wagon early you know. Glenn is making me my 2nd amp soon, a GR08+. But in the mean time, I'm good


----------



## parbaked

ultrainferno said:


> I'm good


 
 If you are good then maybe Stavros is an angel....


----------



## rosgr63

Oh I like it Steven.
  
 I've been called plenty but never an angel.
  
 I like the sound of it.............


----------



## Ultrainferno

How the hell did headfi pull those page numbers off?


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Oh I like it Steven.
> 
> I've been called plenty but never an angel.
> 
> I like the sound of it.............


 
   


> Originally Posted by *rosgr63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> And I am a little angel that just landed in head-fi land.............


 
 It was only last week!


----------



## rosgr63

Steven I was trying to persuade Aldo I am good............so I can take Miguel with his slingshot on the boat!!!!!!!


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> Steven I was trying to persuade Aldo I am good............so I can take Miguel with his slingshot on the boat!!!!!!!


 

 ahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!
 good joke.
 you want to bribe me too, i´m so pure


----------



## Skylab

Well I finally got to hear a Glenn amp. My planned evening visit to my good friend Minches' house turned into a bit of a longer stay due to the storm...Dave and his awesome wife were kind enough to put me up for the night as my morning flight was cancelled...I'm still at the Philly airport actually, not clear if I will get out tonight to tomorrow.

The GAPE sounded absolutely terrific with the LCD-3. There is a delicacy and detail to the treble that was otherworldly. The bass weight was also colossal, while still being very well defined and controlled. In both these respects if bested my great love the Leben CS-300 (which Dave also has one of, conveniently located right next to the GAPE). Glenn's amp is a top tier headphone amp, no doubt. 

One more pic:



That said, it was Dave's unbelievable speaker stereo which was the real treat. Very few have ever heard music reproduced in their home this well. It was astonishing.


----------



## jc9394

woah, that is a dream HT setup.  
  
 Skylab, my wallet is cursing you...  Glenn how long is the wait for GAPE?


----------



## kazsud

skylab said:


> Well I finally got to hear a Glenn amp. My planned evening visit to my good friend Minches' house turned into a bit of a longer stay due to the storm...Dave and his awesome wife were kind enough to put me up for the night as my morning flight was cancelled...I'm still at the Philly airport actually, not clear if I will get out tonight to tomorrow.
> 
> The GAPE sounded absolutely terrific with the LCD-3. There is a delicacy and detail to the treble that was otherworldly. The bass weight was also colossal, while still being very well defined and controlled. In both these respects if bested my great love the Leben CS-300 (which Dave also has one of, conveniently located right next to the GAPE). Glenn's amp is a top tier headphone amp, no doubt.
> 
> ...




Did you make the green wall diffuser yourself dminches?


----------



## magiccabbage

What a listening room. I wonder did it take long to get the room set up like that? What speakers are those if ye don't mind me asking?


----------



## longbowbbs

Vandersteen 5A's....Awesome speakers...The bigger brothers to my 2Ce Sig II's....


----------



## longbowbbs

Rob, you lucky guy! Quite a tribute to the GAPE to best the Leben!


----------



## Neogeo333

I can make up the Cary pre, but boy that's one awesome looking man cave you got there. With a setup that that why even bother to go to the big screen.


----------



## dminches

kazsud said:


> Did you make the green wall diffuser yourself dminches?


 
  
 No.  They are RPG Skylines.  They came painted to match the wall color!
  
 Having Rob here was a blast.  I needed his seal of approval on the room before labeling it a success.  I played DJ as we played multiple digital selections before going to vinyl, which sealed the deal.


----------



## dminches

magiccabbage said:


> What a listening room. I wonder did it take long to get the room set up like that? What speakers are those if ye don't mind me asking?


 
  
 The construction took a couple months and then it took 3 more to do all the room treatments.  Kudos to Jeff Hedback on his work and design.


----------



## Skylab

dminches said:


> Having Rob here was a blast.  I needed his seal of approval on the room before labeling it a success.  I played DJ as we played multiple digital selections before going to vinyl, which sealed the deal.




It's a smashing success. I don't get to have that level of music and audio fun all that often since - I of course get to enjoy my own systems, which I do, but rarely do I get to enjoy great music on a great system with an audio buddy  It was awesome.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Congrats David, it looks impressive. So euh, when can I come over? I'll just sleep in that couch for a week, I won't bother you too much. Maybe get Clayton there too.


----------



## dminches

Lieven, you have an open invitation. And, you get a bed too.  We have several extras now that the kids have their own places.


----------



## jc9394

oh, how about me?  i think i can squeeze a trip to NY...


----------



## jc9394

> I'm still at the Philly airport actually, not clear if I will get out tonight to tomorrow.


 
  
 Hope you are able to fly soon and have a safe trip, my colleagues told me that is kind of warm in Chicago today.  Mid 20s...


----------



## longbowbbs

David, what amp are you running with your SLP-05?


----------



## daigo

That is a seriously awesome looking audio room, dminches.  I am feeling almost as green as your wall and sound treatments!


----------



## 2359glenn

Rob
 Thanks for the nice wright up on the amp. I try my best to make the best sounding amps.
  
 David
 I see you popped off the shield's on the C3gs  Has it changed the sound?
  
 Quote:


skylab said:


> Well I finally got to hear a Glenn amp. My planned evening visit to my good friend Minches' house turned into a bit of a longer stay due to the storm...Dave and his awesome wife were kind enough to put me up for the night as my morning flight was cancelled...I'm still at the Philly airport actually, not clear if I will get out tonight to tomorrow.
> 
> The GAPE sounded absolutely terrific with the LCD-3. There is a delicacy and detail to the treble that was otherworldly. The bass weight was also colossal, while still being very well defined and controlled. In both these respects if bested my great love the Leben CS-300 (which Dave also has one of, conveniently located right next to the GAPE). Glenn's amp is a top tier headphone amp, no doubt.
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow!!!!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

How much did you run those C3g's David?  They were NOS, never used so they needed a good 24 hours to settle.


----------



## dminches

jc9394 said:


> oh, how about me?  i think i can squeeze a trip to NY...


 
  
 You too.
  
 Remember, I am not in NY, but in South Jersey, outside Philly.


----------



## dminches

longbowbbs said:


> David, what amp are you running with your SLP-05?


 
  
 I am using a pair of Cary SA-500.1 monoblocks.  Those 5As need a lot of juice.  The Carys are up to the task.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


>


 
  
 Glenn, I got the C3gs from Tyrell would was so kind to sell me a pair of naked ones.  I haven't noticed any sound difference.  Would you expect the sound to be different?


----------



## dminches

xcalibur255 said:


> How much did you run those C3g's David?  They were NOS, never used so they needed a good 24 hours to settle.


 
  
 I am probably coming up on 24 hours of listening at this point.  It is really hard to walk away from this amp/headphone combo.  Total ear candy.


----------



## longbowbbs

dminches said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > David, what amp are you running with your SLP-05?
> ...


 
 Nice! That is a lot of horsepower....


----------



## dminches

longbowbbs said:


> Nice! That is a lot of horsepower....


 
  
 I made a slight typo.  The are the SA-500.1s.  500 wpc.


----------



## longbowbbs

dminches said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Nice! That is a lot of horsepower....
> ...


 
 1000 watts into 4 ohms!  Hmmm.. 4 Ohms....David, aren't the Vandy 7's 4 Ohms?


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> You too.
> 
> Remember, I am not in NY, but in South Jersey, outside Philly.




Philly cheesesteak...


----------



## dminches

longbowbbs said:


> 1000 watts into 4 ohms!  Hmmm.. 4 Ohms....David, aren't the Vandy 7's 4 Ohms?


 
  
 The Vandy 5As are 8 ohms.


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> Philly cheesesteak...


 
 Stromboli!!


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Glenn, I got the C3gs from Tyrell would was so kind to sell me a pair of naked ones.  I haven't noticed any sound difference.  Would you expect the sound to be different?


 

 They will have lower internal capacitance to ground with the shield removed so the might have a better high end. But more likely to pick up more Hum and noise with the shield removed.


----------



## longbowbbs

dminches said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > 1000 watts into 4 ohms!  Hmmm.. 4 Ohms....David, aren't the Vandy 7's 4 Ohms?
> ...


 
 Yes...But the 7's are 4....Upgrade!


----------



## dminches

Eric, send me a check for $50k and I will order them tomorrow.


----------



## longbowbbs

dminches said:


> Eric, send me a check for $50k and I will order them tomorrow.


 
 I think they are up $52k now....Why skimp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...They are amazing but they do crave big power. Vandersteen has their new 600 watt mono's for another $52k per pair to run with them....I think you and I are doing OK! More $$$ for Glenn amps and tubes.


----------



## wotts

I checked my subscriptions, saw 40+ new posts in this thread and thought "Oh man, what goodies do we have today?". I was not disappointed! That's a sharp room, David, and the GAPE is just awesome. I'm glad Rob had a chance to hear a Glenn creation. I'm looking forward to the next meet I can attend to share my OTL.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> They will have lower internal capacitance to ground with the shield removed so the might have a better high end. But more likely to pick up more Hum and noise with the shield removed.




Nice to know, how difficult to remove the shield?


----------



## Silent One

skylab said:


> Well I finally got to hear a Glenn amp. My planned evening visit to my good friend Minches' house turned into a bit of a longer stay due to the storm...Dave and his awesome wife were kind enough to put me up for the night as my morning flight was cancelled...I'm still at the Philly airport actually, not clear if I will get out tonight to tomorrow.
> 
> The GAPE sounded absolutely terrific with the LCD-3. There is a delicacy and detail to the treble that was otherworldly. The bass weight was also colossal, while still being very well defined and controlled. In both these respects if bested my great love the Leben CS-300 (which Dave also has one of, conveniently located right next to the GAPE). Glenn's amp is a top tier headphone amp, no doubt.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Amazing coverage on dminches' amazing journey!




  
  


dminches said:


> No.  They are RPG Skylines.  They came painted to match the wall color!
> 
> Having Rob here was a blast.  I needed his seal of approval on the room before labeling it a success.  I played DJ as we played multiple digital selections before going to vinyl, which sealed the deal.


 
  
 After seeing your wonderful room, I immediately picked-up my mobile and scrolled to "Reminders":
  




  
 And purged every single entry... to give hearing your room top priority!
  
 - A Southern Pie for the Mrs.
 - French bubbly for dminches
 - Comfortable clothing


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> They will have lower internal capacitance to ground with the shield removed so the might have a better high end. But more likely to pick up more Hum and noise with the shield removed.


 
  
 I haven't experienced any issues thus far.  The C3g I stripped are quiet and noise/hum free.  The only noise I have ever heard inside the headphones has been from misbehaving 45 tubes.  One of my Sylvanias likes to make what I can only describe as farting sounds.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Btw, David, congrats on your listening room.  Very impressive.  Hurts to look at it a little bit I must say.  As an apartment dweller I can't do the things with speakers I really want to do.
  
 You need a sexier name for the 300B than GAPE though.  If I dare say so I think I did a better job naming my 45 amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

jc9394 said:


> Nice to know, how difficult to remove the shield?


 

 It's tedious, but not all that difficult.  Trickiest part is finding something with a thin enough edge to wedge between the seam where the aluminum joins together.  I used a pocket knife blade.  The glass does not make physical contact with the shield so there is not nearly as much danger of breaking the glass as you might initially think.  When the two halves of the shield finally pop apart after all the prying it finally makes sense.


----------



## Silent One

Shield removal~
  
 Send Yamamoto-san an email inquiry. He replies quite quickly. He routinely removes the shield for his Siemens C3m tubes...


----------



## alota

skylab said:


> That said, it was Dave's unbelievable speaker stereo which was the real treat. Very few have ever heard music reproduced in their home this well. It was astonishing.


 
 really nice amplifier


----------



## alota

>


----------



## Ultrainferno

Keep us posted SO


----------



## rosgr63

Fantastic listening room David, very nice gear.
  
 Pleased you had a good time with Rob.
  
 Happy Listening my friend.


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> Amazing coverage on dminches' amazing journey!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 SO
 You come to the east cost (Philly) I will start driving north and meet you there.
 I plan on driving there to see Dave and get some Pizza anyway


----------



## wotts

If SO wants to fly into the Motor City, I'll come too and pick him up on the way....


----------



## jc9394

oh a mini meet at Philly?  i need to clear out my calendar.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just got back from my tube guy. Spent over an hour in his warehouse looking for some nice tubes...and found them!

Then the misses started to complain so we left. Clean up time and then pics!

Stavros. The bendix list does not stop at 5....


----------



## jc9394

nice, wish we have a tube warehouse here...


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> SO
> You come to the east cost (Philly) I will start driving north and meet you there.
> I plan on driving there to see Dave and get some Pizza anyway


 




 Great! Except one tiny little thing....
  
 ... I'm a BIG chicken....er Rooster from SoCal who can't take the cold. Wanna wait till the weather warms?


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> If SO wants to fly into the Motor City, I'll come too and pick him up on the way....


 
  
 And then crash Jude's HQ on the way back?!


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> And then crash Jude's HQ on the way back?!




It's not far from the airport...


----------



## dminches

ultrainferno said:


> I just got back from my tube guy. Spent over an hour in his warehouse looking for some nice tubes...and found them!
> 
> Then the misses started to complain so we left. Clean up time and then pics!
> 
> Stavros. The bendix list does not stop at 5....


 
  
 I hope you took some pictures and have more information than that!


----------



## Silent One

Things aren't always what they seem...
  
 Minutes after viewing dminches amazing room, I walked around and pulled the plug on every single piece of gear inside the listening room. At first glance, it might look like a bad case of jealousy to some. But I'm really just relocating the listening room 3.5 miles down the street today.


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> It's not far from the airport...


 
  





 I'll continue to study the 7 Day and 30 Day forecasts... some of you are on the wrong side of 65 degrees.


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> I'll continue to study the 7 Day and 30 Day forecasts... *some of you are on the wrong side of 65 degrees.*




One of my coworkers mentioned we might see temps around 40 later this month. I just said, " Ooo...shorts weather!"


----------



## Ultrainferno

dminches said:


> I hope you took some pictures and have more information than that!


 
  
 Terrible headache so sorry for the bad quality pictures. I just labelled all my new tubes and stored them away.
 When I asked him about graphite plates 6080WB he said he didn't have any but I was free to look around in the warehouse. Guess what: Quick trip = 16 new tubes of which 6 Bendix/Raytheon Graphite plates
 A great tube day
  
 1. A pair of top condition Thomson 6080WA

 2. A pair of Slotted Bendix Red

  
 3. One Raytheon Graphite 6080WB
  

  
 4. one curved Bendix 6080WB slotted

  
  
 5. One Bendix 6080WB Solid curved
  

  
 6. And the special one. Bendix 6080WB Crazy slotted curved.
  

  
 Has anyone ever seen one of these slots before, they are not straight slots but they are curved
  
 And then I found 4 mystery tubes, see my next post...


----------



## Ultrainferno

When looking trough all the boxes in the 6080 section I found four of these mystery tubes. The labels aren't readable anymore and I don't even know if they are 6080 tube types.
  
 Does any of the tube experts know what these are please?
  

  

  

  
 Even my tube guy had no idea, so I got them for free. Now if I only knew what they were...
 Help? Please? Thank you.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> When looking trough all the boxes in the 6080 section I found four of these mystery tubes. The labels aren't readable anymore and I don't even know if they are 6080 tube types.
> 
> Does any of the tube experts know what these are please?
> 
> ...


 

  Looks like a single high power pentode not a dual triode like the 6080


----------



## spacequeen7

looking for Thomson impressions ..
 P.S. nice haul inferno


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> I just got back from my tube guy. Spent over an hour in his warehouse looking for some nice tubes...and found them!
> 
> Then the misses started to complain so we left. Clean up time and then pics!
> 
> Stavros. The bendix list does not stop at 5....


 
  
  
 Nice find Lieven.
 I have not seen the curved slot Bendix before.
 What's the date code at the top?
 Well done!
  
 The other tubes don't look like 6080's to me.
  
 Well done!!!!!!!!


----------



## Skylab

2359glenn said:


> Looks like a single high power pentode not a dual triode like the 6080







rosgr63 said:


> The other tubes don't look like 6080's to me.




Indeed they look most like a 6550.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> wotts said:
> 
> 
> > It's not far from the airport...
> ...


 
 Totally true! anything over 65 is toooo hot!


----------



## GrindingThud

The curvy slots are interesting...is it the same on both sides?


----------



## rosgr63

Today Lieven taught me about the curved slot Bendix 6080, and Aldo the similarities and differences between women and tubes!
  
 It's been a very educational day for me.....


----------



## jc9394

It is cold out, gonna to turn on my personal heater.
  

  
 Look mom, I can break dance...


----------



## alota

Ahahahah, really fun!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Today Lieven taught me about the curved slot Bendix 6080, and Aldo the similarities and differences between women and tubes!
> 
> It's been a very educational day for me.....


 

 You like anything curvy Stavros


----------



## rosgr63

I do, but I am not the only one..............


----------



## alota

Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gona
 Whatcha gonna do when sherrif John Brown
 Come for you tell me whatcha gonna do.


----------



## longbowbbs

alota said:


> Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gona
> Whatcha gonna do when sherrif John Brown
> Come for you tell me whatcha gonna do.


 
 An American TV show reference from our friend in Portugal to our friend in Greece! The world is so small today.


----------



## HoboBob

ultrainferno said:


> When looking trough all the boxes in the 6080 section I found four of these mystery tubes. The labels aren't readable anymore and I don't even know if they are 6080 tube types.
> 
> Does any of the tube experts know what these are please?
> 
> ...


 

 It looks a lot like a CV4060 (VX6114) Beam Tetrode Power tube. 

http://www.tubecollector.org/cv4060.htm

 See second picture... almost has the part of the faded lettering. If not it, pretty close


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thank you Bob!!
 Glenn if you can use them I will send the quad to you for free. If not I'll put them up for sale


----------



## alota

longbowbbs said:


> An American TV show reference from our friend in Portugal to our friend in Greece! The world is so small today.


 

 many peple in Portugal see this show


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Thank you Bob!!
> Glenn if you can use them I will send the quad to you for free. If not I'll put them up for sale


 

 Thanks for the offer Ultra in the past I would have taken them to experiment with.
 But I have no time to experiment I already have a experimental OTL amp to build that I haven't
 gotten to yet.


----------



## rosgr63

I must think of something to destruct you.............
  
 Can you test a G37 as a 5U4G?


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I must think of something to destruct you.............
> 
> Can you test a G37 as a 5U4G?


 

 Yes but you might better test it as a GZ34/5AR4
 The readings will be high if tested as a 5U4 it has a much lower voltage drop


----------



## rosgr63

But it's more curvy than a GZ34, how do I compensate for the shape???????


----------



## Ultrainferno

use a hammer?


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> But it's more curvy than a GZ34, how do I compensate for the shape???????


 

 No I found out over time that the flat ones are just as good.
 Initially might not look as good but in the end you still get a WOW.


----------



## rosgr63

Lieven has a good approach, I have to think about Glenn's statement!


----------



## Silent One

Yes, curvy, rosgr63....


----------



## rosgr63

Good morning SO.
 I am currently listening to Bettye Swann The Complete Atlantic Recordings
  
 Here's the curvy tube i am talking about, but some people (including me occasionally) think dirty:


----------



## Ultrainferno

I love how's she's shiny at the bottom


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> I love how's she's shiny at the bottom


 

 Nothing like a shiny bottom !!!!
  
  
 Stavros Just stick that curvy tube in your OTL and go for the gusto.
 No sense in testing it go all the way What could happen ??? Get to hot and blow the fuse!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

You two are a bad pair.......
  
 Maybe I'll give you the pleasure to try next time you come over.
  
 Needles to say me and the girls will be hiding and I'll get L to call you bad names when the fuse blows.


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Good morning SO.
> I am currently listening to Bettye Swann The Complete Atlantic Recordings
> 
> Here's the curvy tube i am talking about, but some people (including me occasionally) think dirty:


 
  
 Bettye, baby.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like your taste! I remember the first time I learned you liked WAR and listed your listening session. I decided to stay up 'til sunrise listening to the very same tracks. Ok granted, I was going to stay up all night anyway but... it had been some moons since I played 'em. And it felt so good!
  
 Further, you gave me some really good advice on tube testers. But once I learned the amp's circuit was the actual pudding... I bought a half case of Champagne instead for my $600. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Someday, perhaps...


----------



## rosgr63

You are very wise SO, I like your style!!!!!!!
  
 That bubbly sounds so good popping like a rectifier arcing over.
  
 In this case, next time Glenn and L come over, I'll pop a bottle with the girls and let Glenn pop the rectifiers.......
  
 Check out "this Old Heart of Mine" Bettye is so good.
  
 Tonight I'll check The Commodores, another favourite band.


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> You are very wise SO, I like your style!!!!!!!
> 
> That bubbly sounds so good popping like a rectifier arcing over.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My rig is down for a few days.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> You two are a bad pair.......
> 
> Maybe I'll give you the pleasure to try next time you come over.
> 
> Needles to say me and the girls will be hiding and I'll get L to call you bad names when the fuse blows.


 

 The Fuse won't blow maybe something else will  !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 I thought I gave you some spars anyway. If not I will send you some.
 It don't matter I am getting called bad names now for giving L a cold anyway.


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Tonight I'll check The Commodores, another favourite band.


 
 I have no Commodores, but this conversation caused me to break out my War to start the weekend...thanks.
 SO if you ever get to see "Lowrider Band" around SoCal, they are essentially the guys from War. It's a good time.
  
 Papa Dee Allen - R.I.P.


----------



## Ultrainferno

She still looks and sounds perfect. Listening to Moby


----------



## parbaked

ultrainferno said:


> She still looks and sounds perfect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That is an Ultra stunning amp! Really nice work Glenn.
 I do like how this one retains the 2359glenn family resemblance...


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> I have no Commodores, but this conversation caused me to break out my War to start the weekend...thanks.
> SO if you ever get to see "Lowrider Band" around SoCal, they are essentially the guys from War. It's a good time.
> 
> Papa Dee Allen - R.I.P.


 
 Gotta get you some Commodores! Will keep my eyes out for the Band.


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> She still looks and sounds perfect. Listening to Moby


 
  
 Great! Though, my OTL has gotten a bit lonely.


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Gotta get you some Commodores!


 
 I'll give it a try...
 They weren't cool when I was in school 
 Whereas _funk_ was the _junk_!


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> Nice find Lieven.
> I have not seen the curved slot Bendix before.
> What's the date code at the top?
> Well done!
> ...


 
  
 No date code visible anymore....


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have to say I am very impressed with the Graphite plates 6080WB, they are now my number 1 tube.
 I've been listening to the 6080WA Thomson for the last hour and I really like this tube as well, nice warm tube sound but keeping the details and a normal sound stage


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> The Fuse won't blow maybe something else will  !!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I thought I gave you some spars anyway. If not I will send you some.
> It don't matter I am getting called bad names now for giving L a cold anyway.


 
  
 Yes, you gave me a box of fuses, I have them.
 The thought of L having a go at you.........and me encouraging her...........
 I know I am evil.
  
  


parbaked said:


> I have no Commodores, but this conversation caused me to break out my War to start the weekend...thanks.
> SO if you ever get to see "Lowrider Band" around SoCal, they are essentially the guys from War. It's a good time.
> 
> Papa Dee Allen - R.I.P.


 
  
 Try the early releases with Eric Burdon they are very good too.
  


ultrainferno said:


> I have to say I am very impressed with the Graphite plates 6080WB, they are now my number 1 tube.
> I've been listening to the 6080WA Thomson for the last hour and I really like this tube as well, nice warm tube sound but keeping the details and a normal sound stage


 
  
  
 Pleased you like them both, I got a brand new quad for $8, when the ebay Gods fell asleep.
 Never tried them yet.
 As for the Bendix they are one of my favourite 6080's.
  
 Happy Listening


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Try the early releases with Eric Burdon they are very good too.


 
 Yes, that is how I was exposed to them as I was into Animals etc.
 War was the first funk band to crossover. They also opened for a lot of big rock bands IIRC.
 I think they were forced by their manager. If you find the videos of gigs with Burdon, Papa always looks bummed to be there!
 Sad thing is that most of my music from schools days was on cassette tape and is now long gone.


----------



## rosgr63

Spot on Steve.
  
 I have a great collection of most of their work on CD, and some on vinyl.
 I wouldn't dare play any of my tapes, they'll probably disintegrate.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I enjoyed listening to the 300b again and my 339. I should lock myself up more often


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I enjoyed listening to the 300b again and my 339. I should lock myself up more often


 

 ... And throw away the key! Your amp looks hot to trot!


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Clayton, nice to have you back!
  
 What music are you listening to today?
  
 Do you like War?


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks! And welcome back to you too. I am listening to Van Cliburn. I have a hangover. I went to watch San Francisco's Chinese New Year's Parade last night and it was so crowded that I slipped into a bar and had a Belvedere Vodka Martini with a twist after a few glasses of Champagne.
  
 Since my turntable didn't sell, I've brought it out of hibernation. It is sounding spectacular. Excuse the blurry photo. My hands are still shaky. 
  
 War? That old computer game? Yes, I liked it back then. Wait, it was call The Art of War. Maybe War is a different game.
  
_Here's something curious. This Van Cliburn album is over 40 years old and has been played constantly. At least once a month or more for 40 years so that's about 500 times. There is not one scratch or pop. Very clean sounding._
  
_I bought a 180g remastered Miles Davis, Sketches of Spain 3 years ago and only play it a few times a month and it is full of pops and is sounding very worn. And that LP cost $30. What gives? It is supposedly press on virgin vinyl. They don't make 'em like they used to._


----------



## wotts

clayton sf said:


> Thanks! And welcome back to you too. I am listening to Van Cliburn. I have a hangover. I went to watch San Francisco's Chinese New Year's Parade last night and it was so crowded that I slipped into a bar and had a Belvedere Vodka Martini with a twist after a few glasses of Champagne.
> 
> Since my turntable didn't sell, I've brought it out of hibernation. It is sounding spectacular. Excuse the blurry photo. My hands are still shaky.
> 
> ...




There must be something in the air. I wouldn't call it a hangover, but I'm moving slow today. I had bourbon and gin last night.

That is a very nice TT - I really like the olive wood. I've constantly considered jumping into vinyl (ask SO!) but I have heard the same comment about new production LPs. What I'd like to know is if the popping and cracking issues are related to certain pressing houses or materials. I would think the virgin vinyl would be great since it is fresh material, but I'm left wondering if a bit of regrind mixed would produce a better product. I think I'll ask the plastics guru at work tomorrow - I just know enough to be dangerous.

Anyway, beautiful table Clayton!


----------



## Clayton SF

wotts said:


> There must be something in the air. I wouldn't call it a hangover, but I'm moving slow today. I had bourbon and gin last night.
> 
> That is a very nice TT - I really like the olive wood. I've constantly considered jumping into vinyl (ask SO!) but I have heard the same comment about new production LPs. What I'd like to know is if the popping and cracking issues are related to certain pressing houses or materials. I would think the virgin vinyl would be great since it is fresh material, but I'm left wondering if a bit of regrind mixed would produce a better product. I think I'll ask the plastics guru at work tomorrow - I just know enough to be dangerous.
> 
> _*Anyway, beautiful table Clayton!*_


 
  
 Thanks. Here's another curiosity. On close inspection, this is *dynaflex* vinyl pressed in 1972. Dynaflex was supposed to be inferior vinyl (so I've read some comments) but all of my records using dynaflex material sounds better than the current stuff. It feels slightly "softer" when placing the stylus on the record. I use my steady hands--love to manually place and lift my tone arm.
  
 Yes, ask your plastics guru, I'd like to hear what he as to say.
  
 Click on photo. The date is right under the word dynaflex:


----------



## rosgr63

What a nice way to spend your evening Clayton!!!!
 Was there any special food?
  
 Your TT looks great.


----------



## kazsud

clayton sf said:


> Thanks! And welcome back to you too. I am listening to Van Cliburn. I have a hangover. I went to watch San Francisco's Chinese New Year's Parade last night and it was so crowded that I slipped into a bar and had a Belvedere Vodka Martini with a twist after a few glasses of Champagne.
> 
> Since my turntable didn't sell, I've brought it out of hibernation. It is sounding spectacular. Excuse the blurry photo. My hands are still shaky.
> 
> ...




Sorry about your hangover. 

What turntable is that?


----------



## parbaked

> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> War? That old computer game? Yes, I liked it back then. Wait, it was call The Art of War. Maybe War is a different game.


 
 We were reminiscing about our youth...War was a 70's funk band think: _Lowrider._


----------



## Clayton SF

kazsud said:


> Sorry about your hangover.
> 
> What turntable is that?


 
It is a Pro-Ject Xperience, Olive Wood. Well worth the price considering the Sumkio Blue Point No. 2 cartridge that comes with it.

 Quote:


parbaked said:


> We were reminiscing about our youth...War was a 70's funk band think: _Lowrider._


 
  
 Oh, that War. Yes. I like them. Eric Burdon was front man at some point. Great singer.
  



rosgr63 said:


> What a nice way to spend your evening Clayton!!!!
> Was there any special food?
> 
> Your TT looks great.


 

 No goo food last night, but tonight I am making Pasta Puttanesca.


----------



## rosgr63

Nice very nice, save some for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 War: Me & Baby Brother, Cinco de Mayo, Spill the Wine (with Eric Burdon), Nappy Head, Gypsy Man, Southern Part of Texas,  Slippin' Into Darkness, The World is a Ghetto, Tobacco Road, Low Rider,  The Cisco Kid, Get Down


----------



## 2359glenn

There is going to be a price increase on the OTL amp I went to order replacement parts and some of them more then doubled. Right now I am not making money maybe breaking even Not counting my time. Have to try cheaper parts and see what it sounds like. Also want to build a different lower cost experimental amp and send it to my buddy for evaluation. Maybe even go SS rectification.Or use the PY500 rectifier I used in the 300B amp. Can be gotten for $1.00 This amp will use 12SN7 driver and TV horizontal output tubes for outputs more low cost tubes. $2.50 and a lower cost industrial control transformer. These tubes can handle 500ma cathode current so the amp should have more drive and lower impedance output. Will see how it sounds soon.


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Nice very nice, save some for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> War: Me & Baby Brother, Cinco de Mayo, Spill the Wine (with Eric Burdon), Nappy Head, Gypsy Man, Southern Part of Texas,  Slippin' Into Darkness, The World is a Ghetto, Tobacco Road, Low Rider,  The Cisco Kid, Get Down


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> There is going to be a price increase on the OTL amp I went to order replacement parts and some of them more then doubled. Right now I am not making money maybe breaking even Not counting my time. Have to try cheaper parts and see what it sounds like. Also want to build a different lower cost experimental amp and send it to my buddy for evaluation. Maybe even go SS rectification.Or use the PY500 rectifier I used in the 300B amp. Can be gotten for $1.00 This amp will use 12SN7 driver and TV horizontal output tubes for outputs more low cost tubes. $2.50 and a lower cost industrial control transformer. These tubes can handle 500ma cathode current so the amp should have more drive and lower impedance output. Will see how it sounds soon.


 
 Understood Glenn...the horse must eat!
  
 I am very interested in what innovations you determine sounds best for the money. I find this more exciting even than the boutique parts.
 I have a single gain stage amp using low cost 6CL6 pentodes, which I think were also TV tubes. Punches way above it's cost.
 Please keep us informed...and you can always PM if you need another guinea pig. 
  
_Only the simplest can accomodate the most complex._
 - Junji Kimura of 47 Labs...whose designs are simple, but not inexpensive....


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


>


 

 I like your avatar. So elligant, like Shindo's sound.
 Floating along gracefully...
 I like the gold silk-screened logo on their amps too.


----------



## Neogeo333

Anyone know why the swan on their logo? Any back story? It not usual to use a animal in audio related logos. Curious as to why they choose that.


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> Understood Glenn...the horse must eat!
> 
> I am very interested in what innovations you determine sounds best for the money. I find this more exciting even than the boutique parts.
> I have a single gain stage amp using low cost 6CL6 pentodes, which I think were also TV tubes. Punches way above it's cost.
> ...


 
 I make plenty of money to feed the horse.
  
 The thing is I have to make some money doing this. If I an not making money why am I doing this.
 I don't use boutique parts in thee amps I did in David's and Tyrell's.
 I believe in the KISS principle. *Keep it simple stupid* and I found out that less is more the fewer parts the better it sounds.
 And yes the 6CL6 was a vertical output tube in black and white TVs and they sound good.
 If I can use a low cost TV tube in place of the noisy 6AS7 and it sounds good we are better off
 Ok on that guinea pig thing. It is costly to send it to my friend as he lives in Greece but that don't matter he is my official guinea pig.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> I make plenty of money to feed the horse.
> 
> Ok on that guinea pig thing. It is costly to send it to my friend as he lives in Greece but that don't matter he is my official guinea pig.


 
 Glenn, I hope I didn't offend in anyway. The horse comment was supposed to mean "it has to be worth your time". 
 I know you do this as a hobby and for friends and definitely not for the money. 
 I was just saying that I think designing great sounding components from undervalued parts is rewarding for both the designer and the end user and, to me, special...cheers!
  
 As for your Greek friend. I consider him more of a sweet lamb than a guinea pig. His input is obviously more than worth the postage!


----------



## Clayton SF

Here's a desk worth showcasing amps (or not). I'd line them amps up and work my way listening to each and every one of them from left to right. Or from right to left. Or every which way!


----------



## wotts

I'm digging the art on the wall too.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Here's a desk worth showcasing amps (or not). I'd line them amps up and work my way listening to each and every one of them from left to right. Or from right to left. Or every which way!


 
 Is that long enough for ALL your amps or just your headphone amps?


----------



## Clayton SF

wotts said:


> I'm digging the art on the wall too.


 
  
 Yes. I noticed that too. Want.
  


parbaked said:


> Is that long enough for ALL your amps or just your headphone amps?


 
  
 Just the headphone amps will fit side by side, barely, as Ultra will attest. His collection of HP amps rivals mine. I have 2 GlennAmps and so will he!


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> I have 2 GlennAmps and so will he!


 
 I beg to differ...your 300B mono blocks are at least 1.5 amps on their own...they merit their own club!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> I beg to differ...your 300B mono blocks are at least 1.5 amps on their own...they merit their own club!


 
  
    
  
 5S
  
 A 5-Smiley, worth 5 stars!
 Thanks!


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> A 5-Smiley, worth 5 stars!
> Thanks!


 
 The pics of the two huge boxes in your office alone were priceless!


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Just the headphone amps will fit side by side, barely, as Ultra will attest. His collection of HP amps rivals mine. I have 2 GlennAmps and so will he!


 
 I beg to differ again...the 300B mono blocks wouldn't be considered headphone amps to anyone...except the Silent One...


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Here's a desk worth showcasing amps (or not). I'd line them amps up and work my way listening to each and every one of them from left to right. Or from right to left. Or every which way!


 
  
 WOWZA! I could stay occupied 'til Sunrise...


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> I beg to differ again...the 300B mono blocks wouldn't be considered headphone amps to anyone...except the Silent One...


 
  
 Glenn supplied me with an adapter that connected to the speaker posts. Here it is connected to my SOS D7000, Silent One Special--the Denon D7000. Ingenious! So while it may not be considered a headphone amp, like Silent One, we make do. And do we did!


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> I like your avatar. So elligant, like Shindo's sound.
> Floating along gracefully...
> I like the gold silk-screened logo on their amps too.


 





 I've long known you to have good taste, my friend. I'm a bit broke right now but if I had more than two nickels to rub together, I'd buy that gorgeous TT from you. That would make two pre-owned tables from you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


neogeo333 said:


> Anyone know why the swan on their logo? Any back story? It not usual to use a animal in audio related logos. Curious as to why they choose that.


 





 There is a back story. Exhausted from moving all afternoon, I'm too tired to remember the Swan's selection. Ken's choice was an elegant one. I do recall all of the chosen names for amps/pre's reflect his love for French wines and are named after famous bottles of French wines. The avatar is temporary while mourning. K-Mok is just around the corner... 
  


parbaked said:


> I beg to differ again...the 300B mono blocks wouldn't be considered headphone amps to anyone...except the Silent One...


 
 A few hours ago, I sat my Shindo mono blocks out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




on the curb! Well.... just long enough to get a few more items out of the moving van. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd never set 'em out for trash pick-up!!!


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Glenn supplied me with an adapter that connected to the speaker posts. Here it is connected to my SOS D7000, Silent One Special--the Denon D7000. Ingenious! So while it may not be considered a headphone amp, like Silent One, we make do. And do we did!


 





 Brilliant, Clayton SF!   I need me one of them there contraptions for the HD650 & HE-6. I'm gonna have to disturb Glenn's breakfast tomorrow morning, I know he has President's day off!


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> I've long known you to have good taste, my friend. *I'm a bit broke right now but if I had more than two nickels to rub together, I'd buy that gorgeous TT from you*. That would make two pre-owned tables from you.


 
  
  
 +1
  
 I would be all over that if it weren't for my trip this week. I have been trying to choose the TT to add to the system, but I haven't been able to pick.


----------



## Neogeo333

silent one said:


> Brilliant, Clayton SF!   I need me one of them there contraptions for the HD650 & HE-6. I'm gonna have to disturb Glenn's breakfast tomorrow morning, I know he has President's day off!


 
 +1, i need one too but with a 4pin xlr.  Gonna try my orthos with my k-120 tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> Brilliant, Clayton SF!   I need me one of them there contraptions for the HD650 & HE-6. I'm gonna have to disturb Glenn's breakfast tomorrow morning, I know he has President's day off!


 

 Hah! Would using the adapter with the HD650 be okay? Which posts would I use--the 4, 8, or 16 ohm speaker posts?


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> +1
> 
> I would be all over that if it weren't for my trip this week. I have been trying to choose the TT to add to the system, but I haven't been able to pick.


 
  
 I view Clayton's apartment as an audio boutique and he, the consultant. Knowing how well he maintains his gears and vinyl, I would never have any reservations buying anything from him. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In fact, next time I drop by to see him, I'm bringing _"Carry-on"_ luggage.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Hah! Would using the adapter with the HD650 be okay? Which posts would I use--the 4, 8, or 16 ohm speaker posts?


 





 I have no idea. Because I don't know what value resistors Glenn chose. What is your amp operating at now, 8 Ohm, 4 Ohm or 16 Ohm? I'm striving to switch my amps from 8 Ohm to 16 Ohm.


----------



## Silent One

neogeo333 said:


> +1, i need one too but with a 4pin xlr.  Gonna try my orthos with my k-120 tubes.


 
 Same here, I'll need one with 4 pin XLR and another with 1/4. Perhaps, we can get our work done together. And when I remember the "Swan song" (reason for selection) I'll let you know...


----------



## Neogeo333

silent one said:


> Same here, I'll need one with 4 pin XLR and another with 1/4. Perhaps, we can get our work done together. And when I remember the "Swan song" (reason for selection) I'll let you know...


 
 Hope Glenn sees this post tomorrow.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> I make plenty of money to feed the horse.
> 
> The thing is I have to make some money doing this. If I an not making money why am I doing this.
> I don't use boutique parts in thee amps I did in David's and Tyrell's.
> ...


 
  
*KISS* all the way.
  
 I thought I was the official cookie tester and the assistant to hold the cables while you test capacitors at 233 V and crazy enough to let you touch the live voltage to see what 230V and 50Hz feel like!!!!!!!!!!
  
 Just as well Mama wasn't watching and the girls were out shopping...............
  
  


parbaked said:


> Glenn, I hope I didn't offend in anyway. The horse comment was supposed to mean "it has to be worth your time".
> I know you do this as a hobby and for friends and definitely not for the money.
> I was just saying that I think designing great sounding components from undervalued parts is rewarding for both the designer and the end user and, to me, special...cheers!
> 
> As for your Greek friend. I consider him more of a sweet lamb than a guinea pig. His input is obviously more than worth the postage!


 
  
 I am sure Glenn is not offended Steven, he has a great sense of humor.
 Sweet pig you mean, I am fat enough to be one..............
 Glenn has brilliant ideas and I feel privileged to own two of his very nice amps.
  


clayton sf said:


> Here's a desk worth showcasing amps (or not). I'd line them amps up and work my way listening to each and every one of them from left to right. Or from right to left. Or every which way!


 
  
 Very nice Clayton!
 How was dinner?????
  


silent one said:


> *I view Clayton's apartment as an audio boutique and he, the consultant. Knowing how well he maintains his gears and vinyl, I would never have any reservations buying anything from him.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> Very nice Clayton! How was dinner?????


 
  
 Excellent!
  
 This plate is only a small portion of what I actually ate. Sampling while cooking does that.


----------



## rosgr63

You and Steven should not be showing me pictures of food............
  
 I had breakfast but I am hungry now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

It may have taken a few hours and a few hundreds miles but the aroma from Clayton's plate just hit me wirelessly!


----------



## alota

clayton sf said:


> Excellent!
> 
> This plate is only a small portion of what I actually ate. Sampling while cooking does that.


 

 spaghetti with???i´m curious


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> You and Steven should not be showing me pictures of food............
> 
> I had breakfast but I am hungry now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  
 Breakfast. I knew I was forgetting something today!
  
 I need one of those cables to, but then banana plug to mini xlr. Clayton, unless you want to blow your speakers on the HD650 or play it extremely loud, I wouldn't hook them up on the speaker out


----------



## rosgr63

I have a couple of these cables for my AKG K1000, they are called pig tails.
  
 I wouldn't use them for any other headphone but the K1000.


----------



## Silent One

My pigtails work just fine for the HiFiMAN HE-6... a-l-l  n-i-g-h-t. What are y'all afraid of overseas?


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> My pigtails work just fine for the HiFiMAN HE-6... a-l-l  n-i-g-h-t. What are y'all afraid of overseas?


 
  
  
 I've had mine leashed to more than the Aleph running the HE-6, but I have yet to test the T1 using them.
  
 Sounds like a plan for tomorrow.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have no idea how to make one of these cables and don't want to spend a fortune...


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I've had mine leashed to more than the Aleph running the HE-6, but I have yet to test the T1 using them.
> 
> Sounds like a plan for tomorrow.


 
  
 But... it is tomorrow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We wanna know. And granted, I watch the volume but yeah, I routinely push through 265 watts per channel!


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> But... it is tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I shall rephrase to "Tomorrow as in when I get home from work."


----------



## rosgr63

I think you two are crazy..............


----------



## wotts

rosgr63 said:


> I think you two are crazy..............


 
  
  
 As for me, you are not far off the mark!


----------



## rosgr63

I surpassed the crazy stage a long time ago, I am even worse now!!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> I think you two are crazy..............


 
  
 I guess I could always add resistors once the drivers are blown.


----------



## 2359glenn

The resistors is to protect you from yourself. Without the resistors there is nothing stopping you
 from turning the volume up and blowing your headphones.
 I suppose if you have self control you can hook the headphones up direct it will sound better. But if
 you leave the volume turned up and feed signal into the amp. Buy buy headphones and maybe your ears.
 Plus on a tube amp with a output transformer it should have the proper load or the output transformer can arc over.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> The resistors is to protect you from yourself. Without the resistors there is nothing stopping you
> from turning the volume up and blowing your headphones.
> I suppose if you have self control you can hook the headphones up direct it will sound better. But if
> you leave the volume turned up and feed signal into the amp. Buy buy headphones and maybe your ears.
> Plus on a tube amp with a output transformer it should have the proper load or the output transformer can arc over.


 
  
 Absolutely. I use resistors on the tube monos. It is the big bad solid state Sansui G-22000 I'm running naked @ 265wpc. However, I watch the volume and the volume control knob has an inner lock ring one can set to not accidentally exceed. Additionally, when I power-on I always make sure the volume is at zero and cans unplugged.
  
 That said, once everything is proper, yum-o!


----------



## Ultrainferno

how about on the 300B, Glenn?


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> *KISS* all the way.
> 
> I thought I was the official cookie tester and the assistant to hold the cables while you test capacitors at 233 V and crazy enough to let you touch the live voltage to see what 230V and 50Hz feel like!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


 

 Yes I am nuts and did touch the live wires plugged in at Stavros house just to see if 50Hz in Europe feels different then 60Hz in the USA.
 It does feel different. 233 not so bad compared to 480 at work as far as pain goes.
 Stavros you are still my official cookie tester and you will get the amp to evaluate as soon as I have time to build it.
  
 Steven I did not get offended not sure why you thought that that I did.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> how about on the 300B, Glenn?


 

 I made David's 300B amp to hook direct to the 36ohm phones with no resistor but this is for the LCD-X phones
 You can hook direct to the 16 ohm output with in efficient phones.But I would pot a 30ohm 10watt resistor across the output terminals 0 and 16 for a load on the amp.
 The headphone Jack has resistors that are the same as in the Leben CS-300 and I would use this for sensitive high impedance phones.
 And it puts a load on the 16 ohm tap on the output transformer when the phones are plugged in.


----------



## Ultrainferno

It is for the LCD-2 (60 ohm) and HE-500 (38 ohm) with my 300b you built. So you wouldn't recommend using the speaker taps?


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> It is for the LCD-2 (60 ohm) and HE-500 (38 ohm) with my 300b you built. So you wouldn't recommend using the speaker taps?


 

 Yes it should be OK to hook these phones to the 16 ohm tap.
 Just use the built in headphone jack for 300ohm phones like the HD650 or HD800.


----------



## Clayton SF

alota said:


> spaghetti with???i´m curious


 
  
 with chopped tomatoes, chopped olives, chopped capers, diced onions and smashed anchovies.
 It is called _Spaghetti alla Puttanesca_.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton please help, all this resistor talk and driving headphones from speaker outputs has given me a headache.........
  
 Need a nice soothing food photo please!


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Need a nice soothing food photo please!


 
 I made up some meatballs for you dear Stavros...a snack until Clayton can properly feed you...


----------



## rosgr63

Oh this looks very good Steven, please save a couple for me!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> I made up some meatballs for you dear Stavros...a snack until Clayton can properly feed you...


 

 Ahhhh that's what I like meat balls and macaroni or Pizza with meat balls


----------



## rosgr63

I am trying to get mama to make a walnut & chocolate cake bathed in syrup with glazed cherries on top...........


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I am trying to get mama to make a walnut & chocolate cake bathed in syrup with glazed cherries on top...........


 

 How about Meat balls and home made noodles they can't be beat!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn it does.
  
 I was ousted from the kitchen by mama and W and I am trying to get some sympathy from my 53KU......


----------



## rosgr63

On second thoughts Mama's home made noodles are No1, you are right..........


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Glenn it does.
> 
> I was ousted from the kitchen by mama and W and I am trying to get some sympathy from my 53KU......


 

 I will send you something to make you feel better


----------



## alota

clayton sf said:


> with chopped tomatoes, chopped olives, chopped capers, diced onions and smashed anchovies.
> It is called _Spaghetti alla Puttanesca_.


 

 i like spaghetti alla puttanesca
 i´m sicilian and i make a lot of pasta.
 my wife(portuguese)makes a great lasagna(she has learned from my grand mother)


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> I will send you something to make you feel better


 
  
  
 Thanks Glenn, very nice article!
 You brought a big smile to my miserable face! 
  


alota said:


> i like spaghetti alla puttanesca
> i´m sicilian and i make a lot of pasta.
> my wife(portuguese)makes a great lasagna(she has learned from my grand mother)


 
  
 You know Aldo the taste is good but the name sounds terrible...............
 Bacalao Portugese style is one of my favourite fish dishes.
  
 BTW you use some of your headphones from your speaker outputs don't you ragazzo cattivo?
  
 Please go back to the technical talk, I can't take more food talk..............


----------



## Clayton SF

alota said:


> i like spaghetti alla puttanesca
> i´m sicilian and i make a lot of pasta.
> my wife(portuguese)makes a great lasagna(she has learned from my grand mother)


 
  
 I'm originally from Hawaii and grew up with a lot of Portuguese friends and neighbors. The Portuguese arrived in Hawaii from Madeira and the _Região Autónoma dos Açores -- the Azores._ I love food in general and was surrounded by all kinds of ethnic foods (that's Hawaii for you).
  
 I enjoy Malasadas and seafood prepared in a Cataplana. Also Greek food, Italian food, Food food. Quick Stavros, fire up the grill! Get some fresh sardines ready!
  
 If you're interested, here are some photos of me making last night's Spaghetti alla Puttanesca. By the way, my kitchen is the size of a postage stamp so it takes skill to maneuver around in there without knocking over a pots and pans.


----------



## rosgr63

Sardinha assada is another favourite during the summer festivals in Lisboa.
  
 Thanks for the link Clayton, it looks fantastic..........I am hungry again and it's nearly bed time.............
  
 Why are you torturing me, I've done nothing!


----------



## Neogeo333

rosgr63 said:


> Thanks Glenn, very nice article!
> You brought a big smile to my miserable face!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 In PR we have two kind of bacalao, a fried one in shape or a circle and the usual chopped with onions and peppers with olive oil.  Love them both.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Glenn,
  
 should I wait for your new OTL design? (I can wait) I just hope it runs on 6336 Cetron too.


----------



## rosgr63

Me too George, me too........
  
 Here we cooke it in tomato sauce with potatoes, black peepers, herbs and served with a rich garlic sauce.
  
 BTW you also drive some of your headphones out of speaker outputs don't you?


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> Sardinha assada is another favourite during the summer festivals in Lisboa.
> 
> Thanks for the link Clayton, it looks fantastic..........I am hungry again and it's nearly bed time.............
> 
> Why are you torturing me, I've done nothing!


 
  
 What else can I do? Got to torture you from afar. That's what friends are for. 
  
 I've run out of music ideas so I turn to food. I'm still listening to classical music. Right now I am listening to The Lark Ascending. It is beautiful to relax and cook by. Of course not with headphones on. I've got to drag my Zu Audios into my kitchen some day. The notes the violin hits will surely test your headphones range and your hearing range (herring range--food again).


----------



## rosgr63

Too sophisticated for me.
  
 I am a simple person remember.............
  
 Enjoy my friend.


----------



## Neogeo333

rosgr63 said:


> Me too George, me too........
> 
> Here we cooke it in tomato sauce with potatoes, black peepers, herbs and served with a rich garlic sauce.
> 
> BTW you also drive some of your headphones out of speaker outputs don't you?


 
 I still havent done so, gonna call Glenn see if he has time to make one or two of those pig tails.  
  
 On the subject of food, pig foot is quite good when stew chinese style.  Most people dont go near them, also cow tongue is another delicious dish.  
 I have acquired a taste for the lesser "quality" parts.


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> Too sophisticated for me.
> 
> I am a simple person remember.............
> 
> Enjoy my friend.


 

 It's 22:21 where you are. It's 12:21 where I am. Have a great evening!


----------



## 2359glenn

Edit


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> On the subject of food, pig foot is quite good when stew chinese style.  Most people dont go near them, also cow tongue is another delicious dish. I have acquired a taste for the lesser "quality" parts.


 
 There may be an analogy with Glenn's amps and that kind of cooking...using the least expensive parts to make the most tasty dishes!
  
_Puttanesca_, which means 'prostitute', can also mean 'discards' or 'worthless items'. 
 One story is that Spaghetti Puttanesca originated when a restauranteur had to create a dish from what he had leftover in the pantry...the discards...


----------



## Silent One

Same story I have...


----------



## parbaked

The other story is that the prostitutes made puttanesca from items they had in the  pantry to avoid going to the market where the reputable woman would harass them...or because they were sleeping while the markets were open...


----------



## 2359glenn

Steven that is exactly what I am doing using the older small chassis. I have some I can no longer use
because my new transformer is to big.
 And all the parts are leftovers the output tubes are from when I was fixing TVs in the 80s. 
 Hell the rectifiers I used in David's amp are leftovers from my TV days and
I plan on using them in this amp too. And they can be bought for $1.00 can't beat that .


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> Steven that is exactly what I am doing using the older small chassis. I have some I can no longer use
> because my new transformer is to big.
> And all the parts are leftovers the output tubes are from when I was fixing TVs in the 80s.
> Hell the rectifiers I used in David's amp are leftovers from my TV days and
> I plan on using them in this amp too. And they can be bought for $1.00 can't beat that .


 
  
 That is exactly what I wanted...until I just learned that your 300B headphone amps have speaker taps! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Being able to flip to speakers when I get up to mix a cocktail is a key feature of my Spud!
  
 Using the leftover parts is very cool but I know it is a lot of work - trial and error - to get it right.
 I'm very interested especially as you have leftover chassis and parts..._The_ _Puttanesca Amp..._


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> That is exactly what I wanted...until I just learned that your 300B headphone amps have speaker taps!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is so cool. Be it mixing cocktails or making spaghetti _anything_ while listening, via speaker taps, Glenn's 300B headphone amp.
  
 Also ....
  
 It's all about feeding yourself or your horse and making the most from the least of everything.
  
*The Puttanesca Amp*


----------



## 2359glenn

Actually the 300B amp I sold to Ultra when you unplug the phones it switches to speakers.
How about the prostitute amp You get a smile when you turn it on.


----------



## Neogeo333

parbaked said:


> That is exactly what I wanted...until I just learned that your 300B headphone amps have speaker taps! :eek:
> Being able to flip to speakers when I get up to mix a cocktail is a key feature of my Spud!
> 
> Using the leftover parts is very cool but I know it is a lot of work - trial and error - to get it right.
> I'm very interested especially as you have leftover chassis and parts..._The_ _Puttanesca Amp..._




Sounds like a amp thats been used one too many times.


----------



## 2359glenn

This one is going to be a virgin amp.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> Actually the 300B amp I sold to Ultra when you unplug the phones it switches to speakers.


 
 My Spud has a switch...I have problems plugging the cans back in the dark after a few drinks.
 6CL6 is a little tube = not much light...300B would solve that


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> This one is going to be a virgin amp.


 
 NOS not used parts!


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> How about the prostitute amp You get a smile when you turn it on.


 
 When you turn the Puttanesca Amp on, how do you know it's not faking it???


----------



## 2359glenn

As long as it sounds good who cares


----------



## parbaked

Stavros was not lying...you are a bad man!


----------



## 2359glenn

He would know. Of course we are like two peas in a pod.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> He would know. Of course we are like two peas in a pod.


 
 Perfect...you two can do a double blind test on the Puttanesca...I don't want to meet her until you two have taught her all your tricks!


----------



## 2359glenn

I will build two twins how about that nothing like twins.
when I send something to Greece it is a one way trip to much to send it back to the US.


----------



## 2359glenn

Do you live near Clayton ? I can have the two of you evaluate the Puttanesca.
Some one will find out if she is faking. I don't care


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Do you live near Clayton ? I can have the two of you evaluate the Puttanesca.
> Some one will find out if she is faking. I don't care


 
  
 Coincidentally in yesterday's SF blog. Scary:
 City Exposed The Castaneda twins


----------



## 2359glenn

Link didn't work


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> Do you live near Clayton ? I can have the two of you evaluate the Puttanesca.
> Some one will find out if she is faking. I don't care


 
 Stavros and I thought to maybe send the prototype to SF to test with Clayton's OTL and the Spud and then on to Greece but the voltage (and shipping $$) is inconvenient.
 If you can deliver twins, I'd certainly adopt one and, if Clayton agrees, evaluate over pizza, pasta, meatballs and cocktails.
 Sounds like a plan!


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> Link didn't work


 
 good...it's scary!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> good...it's scary!


 

 I've tested it and it works on my iMac. Maybe the Twins don't do Windows.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> I've tested it and it works on my iMac. Maybe the Twins don't do Windows.


 
 It worked on my Mac...first time I ever wish I had Windows instead...


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> It worked on my Mac...first time I ever wish I had Windows instead...


 
  
 Eek! Distortion!
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *parbaked* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ... if Clayton agrees, evaluate over pizza, pasta, meatballs and cocktails.
> Sounds like a plan!


 
 I agree. We can start here: Hotel Rex
 Listener Beware. I live in a small one-bedroom apartment with 75 amps. And I make a good drink too.


----------



## rosgr63

For the record, *I did not start all this talk!*
  
 I just mentioned the name puttanesca could mean left overs ("spaghetti a la whore") !!!!!!!!!!!
  
 Glenn knows how bad I am, It's frightening how alike we are. 
  
 George we have soup made from tripe, and pig trotters served in special restaurants open all night long that people visit in the early hours after an all night drinking session.
 It cures the hangover and tastes good.


----------



## Clayton SF

I need some of that soup, now.


----------



## Neogeo333

rosgr63 said:


> For the record, *I did not start all this talk!*
> 
> I just mentioned the name puttanesca could mean left overs ("spaghetti a la whore") !!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
 I could need some of that now for a midnight snack.  Just reading it makes one hungry.  Ahh the good old days, some drinking, sightseeing and eating.


----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> I need some of that soup, now.


 
  
 Served with hot chili peppers and either lemon or a mix of vinegar and garlic!!!!!!!!!
  
 How many plates?
 Have you two been naughty again?
  
 PS I am jealous...........


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> Thanks Glenn, very nice article!
> You brought a big smile to my miserable face!
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Portuguese bacalhau is very good.
 i never used headphones from speaker outputs. i don´t like this
  


clayton sf said:


> I'm originally from Hawaii and grew up with a lot of Portuguese friends and neighbors. The Portuguese arrived in Hawaii from Madeira and the _Região Autónoma dos Açores -- the Azores._ I love food in general and was surrounded by all kinds of ethnic foods (that's Hawaii for you).
> 
> I enjoy Malasadas and seafood prepared in a Cataplana. Also Greek food, Italian food, Food food. Quick Stavros, fire up the grill! Get some fresh sardines ready!
> 
> If you're interested, here are some photos of me making last night's Spaghetti alla Puttanesca. By the way, my kitchen is the size of a postage stamp so it takes skill to maneuver around in there without knocking over a pots and pans.


 
 i saw the photos. you´re na italian artist
 i don´t know malasada, but cataplana is very good


----------



## Silent One

What's not to love (Headphones via Speaker taps)?


----------



## Ultrainferno

and my cable guy doesn't have time to make it!


----------



## rosgr63

alota said:


> Portuguese bacalhau is very good.
> i never used headphones from speaker outputs. i don´t like this
> 
> i saw the photos. you´re na italian artist
> i don´t know malasada, but cataplana is very good


 
  
 I like it, that makes two of us who don't use the speaker taps for headphones (excluding the AKG K1000)
  


silent one said:


> What's not to love (Headphones via Speaker taps)?


 
  
 Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  


ultrainferno said:


> and my cable guy doesn't have time to make it!


 
  
 Don't use it it's heresy......


----------



## Ultrainferno

alota said:


> Portuguese bacalhau is very good.


 
  
 Bacalhau, it's everywhere when you go to Lisbon. It is one of my fav cities in Europe but I wish they would serve less Bacalhau, hahaha
 On the other hand I am a big fan of Pastéis de Belem and Moscatel...


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> I like it, that makes two of us who don't use the speaker taps for headphones (excluding the AKG K1000)
> 
> 
> Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ...


 

 well...akg k-1000 and he-6 desserve the speaker output but my beta drove this headphones .
 but i think that if it becomes a regular thing(see the orthos), this means distorting the essence of headphones philosophy
  
 HASTA LA PUTTANESCA, SIEMPRE!!!


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> Bacalhau, it's everywhere when you go to Lisbon. It is one of my fav cities in Europe but I wish they would serve less Bacalhau, hahaha
> On the other hand I am a big fan of Pastéis de Belem and Moscatel...


 
  
 X2
 Nice bars too...........
  


alota said:


> well...akg k-1000 and he-6 desserve the speaker output but my beta drove this headphones .
> but i think that if it becomes a regular thing(see the orthos), *this means distorting the essence of headphones philosophy*
> 
> HASTA LA PUTTANESCA, SIEMPRE!!!


 
  
 My thoughts too!!!!!!!!!


----------



## alota

Hasta el pastel de Belém, siempre!!!
My favourite pastel in Portugal


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Glenn,
> 
> should I wait for your new OTL design? (I can wait) I just hope it runs on 6336 Cetron too.


 

 No you get the old one. I don't know when the new one will be complete because I have many
 amps to build first including yours.
 Plus the 6336 needs the big transformer.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> For the record, *I did not start all this talk!*
> 
> I just mentioned the name puttanesca could mean left overs ("spaghetti a la whore") !!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


 

 It got late in Greece and you went to bed otherwise you would have been in the middle of it.
 I know you are no angle!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## dminches

Who needs speaker taps when you have GAPE?
  
 Not I.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Who needs speaker taps when you have GAPE?
> 
> Not I.


 
  
 The GAPE should drive any headphone no problem if you need more then 8 watts for a headphone something is wrong.
 That is what these guys need a killer headphone amp!!!!!!


----------



## dminches

Absolutely, Glenn.  This amp drives the LCD-3s with ease.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Absolutely, Glenn.  This amp drives the LCD-3s with ease.


 

 David I don't think there is any headphone amp made that can compare to the GAPE.


----------



## dminches

Glenn, i agree.  And it still isn't fully broken in.  It continues to get better.


----------



## Neogeo333

2359glenn said:


> David I don't think there is any headphone amp made that can compare to the GAPE.



Oh yeah? What about our little secret the GIMPP300? 
GLEN
ISODYNAMIC
MONSTROUS
PUSH
PULL
300


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> David I don't think there is any headphone amp made that can compare to the GAPE.


 
 Does the GAPE have speaker taps or is it headphone only?
 I don't think we've seen the backside of of this beauty...


----------



## dminches

Headphone only.


----------



## parbaked

Congrats again...very, very special...cheers!


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Oh yeah? What about our little secret the GIMPP300?
> GLEN
> ISODYNAMIC
> MONSTROUS
> ...


 

 George you want a PP 300B amp ???


----------



## Neogeo333

Still debating. Its easier to get a pair of KR 300b than 2 pairs. Just the tubes alone will cost almost as the amp. Also don't know if PP or parallel 300b.


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> Does the GAPE have speaker taps or is it headphone only?
> I don't think we've seen the backside of of this beauty...


 

 It is difficult with the way these output transformers are tapped. multiple windings that are series and paralleled to make the right output Impedance.
 I do plan on making one for my buddy that would have relays to switch the transformer from 8ohms
 to 40ohms when the phone is plugged in. and automatically switch from the headphone jack to terminals on the back.


----------



## 2359glenn

Speaking of 300Bs the filament in one of my cheapo JJ300Bs burned out last night.
 Now I will have two different ones in my amp.


----------



## Neogeo333

I have 2 pairs of 300b coming soon, wanna test drive them? There supposedly cheap Chelmer 300b. 50.00 usd each.


----------



## 2359glenn

Do you want to sell a pair ??
 I was going to buy a pair of KRs. These cheep tubes only last me a year before one of them burn out.


----------



## Neogeo333

I was thinking sending it to you to tried them on your amps. And when im ready for my 300b amp it will be nicely settled.


----------



## 2359glenn

OK I will Waite on the KRs then


----------



## Neogeo333

What I meant was you can use them for testing purposes. Mis tubos son sus tubos. And if they survive good if they don't they are just cheap tubes. I will let you know once they get here.


----------



## 2359glenn

OK I am going to order the KR tubes and if yours get here first I will use them until the KRs get here.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> It got late in Greece and you went to bed otherwise you would have been in the middle of it.
> I know you are no angle!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  
  
 I am bad I know.........


----------



## john57

I just like to post my experience to date with the Bendix graphite tube variations. I do not think that Bendix had high QA standards to simply reject tubes but put those tubes in general circulation as long they will work. I had a Bendix tube that worn out later due to the getter formation that was incomplete at the factory. I also have another Bendix tube that tested good in all conditions on my Sencore tube tester but will not auto adjust the bias correctly in the amp that I am using. Once one of the Bendix tube wear out in the amp I will switch out the remaing Bendix to something else I have in my collection. I am planning for the future where I will still have new tubes to explore.
 P.S. I am going to explore something wonderful at PS Audio this weekend.


----------



## rosgr63

John Bendix were making these tubes for aeronautical applications so I would have thought they had high standards.
  
 I had Bendix with sorts, but they could have been rejects you never know.
  
 What's happening this weekend?


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> I agree. We can start here: Hotel Rex
> Listener Beware. I live in a small one-bedroom apartment with 75 amps. And I make a good drink too.


 
 Clayton, my house in Bernal is small but the amp/sq.ft. density is much lower than your pad! 
 I'm happy to host you and others to evaluate the New OTL.
 I have a Viking range, sharp knives and a cocktail shaker so we should be ok!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Clayton, my house in Bernal is small but the amp/sq.ft. density is much lower than your pad!
> I'm happy to host you and others to evaluate the New OTL.
> I have a Viking range, sharp knives and a cocktail shaker so we should be ok!


 

 Sounds great!
  
 OMG. A Viking Range and New OTL. Heaven.
 Olives or pickled cocktail onions, and a twist.
 I'm ready to replace my old 1930s stove with a Viking Range. A small Viking Range. But not yet.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Sounds great!
> 
> OMG. A Viking Range and New OTL. Heaven.
> Olives or pickled cocktail onions, and a twist.
> I'm ready to replace my old 1930s stove with a Viking Range. A small Viking Range. But not yet.


 
 Viking make a little 24" range that is sweet for small space..oven is really efficient too.
  
 It would be good to hear the new and your old OTL and maybe my 6CL6 Spud, which is also a simple TV tube based thing...
 I'd also be happy for you to try my Shigaraki amp in your system with your matching CD anytime.
 Not sure if you have the Shigaraki DAC, but that combo with your Zu's might be special too...cheers!


----------



## Silent One

john57 said:


> I just like to post my experience to date with the Bendix graphite tube variations. I do not think that Bendix had high QA standards to simply reject tubes but put those tubes in general circulation as long they will work. I had a Bendix tube that worn out later due to the getter formation that was incomplete at the factory. I also have another Bendix tube that tested good in all conditions on my Sencore tube tester but will not auto adjust the bias correctly in the amp that I am using. Once one of the Bendix tube wear out in the amp I will switch out the remaing Bendix to something else I have in my collection. I am planning for the future where I will still have new tubes to explore.
> *P.S. I am going to explore something wonderful at PS Audio this weekend.*


 




  


parbaked said:


> Clayton, my house in Bernal is small but the amp/sq.ft. density is much lower than your pad!
> I'm happy to host you and others to evaluate the New OTL.
> I have a Viking range, sharp knives and a cocktail shaker so we should be ok!


 
 I'd come just so I could:
  
 - Meet you
 - Hear the new OTL
 - See the sharp knives glistening at an angle
 - The Viking range working its wonder
 - AND ABOVE ALL.... I wanna see the fog! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does it really look like it does on TV?


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> I'd come just so I could:
> 
> - Meet you
> - Hear the new OTL
> ...


 
 SO, your invitation is in the mail...almost...I still have to go to the letterpress to make something special for you!
  
 This is from the dining room. That is the 'stick the night of the last 49's home game. If there is fog you will see it!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Viking make a little 24" range that is sweet for small space..oven is really efficient too.
> 
> It would be good to hear the new and your old OTL and maybe my 6CL6 Spud, which is also a simple TV tube based thing...
> I'd also be happy for you to try my Shigaraki amp in your system with your matching CD anytime.
> Not sure if you have the Shigaraki DAC, but that combo with your Zu's might be special too...cheers!


 
  
 Sounds great! I am currently using a _*MHDT Lab Havana DAC *_with a wonderful curent production *JJ 6386* buffer tube. It is very sweet sounding paired with the Shigaraki CD. The CD does not upsample. Very true to the sound.
  
 Ah. And the view from my living room window.
 You know the fog is in.


----------



## parbaked

I like MHDT Lab...a bunch of smart music lovers...super passionate. Their stuff is musical for sure.
 The Shigaraki DAC is NOS but OTT (non oversampling but over the top)!
  
 I do love the amp...it's been powered up in my living room for 6-7 years.

  
 Looks like it could make toast in the mornings...


----------



## Clayton SF

Back in 2010, I tried to buy that amp but wasn't able to. For some reason when the guy offered it for sale I couldn't respond to his emails so I missed out. I wanted it so badly. I love it's looks. I only can dream of its sound.


----------



## rosgr63

I feel *soooooooooo* left out!!!!!!!
  
  
 BTW I have a highly modded Stockholm and it sounds great, I am using a Tesla ECC42


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> I feel *soooooooooo* left out!!!!!!!
> 
> BTW I have a highly modded Stockholm and it sounds great, I am using a Tesla ECC42


 
  
 Never feel left out. Maybe in left field, but never left out. You are the inspiration whenever there in none. Wha?


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> I feel *soooooooooo* left out!!!!!!!


 
 Never, we won't allow it...Shigaraki ware is a pottery produced in Shiga Prefecture in Japan.
 It is used for everyday objects. I will find you a Shigaraki plate for your cookies so that you are never left out.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You have a Garber too! I thought you were kidding when you said 75 amps!
 The 4707 is sublime. I don't understand it. It has $30 worth of parts and a nice PSU...epitome of KISS.


----------



## rosgr63

I am only familiar with Noritake, need to research a bit more about Shigaraki, excuse my ignorance.
 When in Japan I never wonder anywhere far but the bars and restaurants, sorry........
  
 Clayton you are my inspiration for audio gear and food, what more can I ask?


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> When in Japan I never wonder anywhere far but the bars and restaurants, sorry........


 
 Yes the only problem with Tokyo is that when you wander out of one bar you end up in another until finally you end up in a Ramen shop...if you are lucky.


----------



## rosgr63

Spot on Steven, spot on.


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> SO, your invitation is in the mail...almost...I still have to go to the letterpress to make something special for you!
> 
> This is from the dining room. That is the 'stick the night of the last 49's home game. If there is fog you will see it!


 
  


clayton sf said:


> Ah. And the view from my living room window.
> You know the fog is in.


 
  
 OH MY! Upon seeing these pix, I immediately reached for the Black Pearl Gaiwan - Ming Dynasty period design (1368-1644). Old reflexes... they die hard!


----------



## rosgr63

Am I allowed to listen to Dolly Parton Blue Smoke?


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> I feel *soooooooooo* left out!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> BTW I have a highly modded Stockholm and it sounds great, I am using a Tesla ECC42


 
  






 I was following your journey with the mods.... _in real-time_. Then suddenly there were no more experiences. I felt left out.


----------



## Clayton SF

That would never work in Belgium. No Ramen Bars to dull the drink. At least when I'm wandering the Belgian landscape with Ultra. And that's not a complaint.
  
 Well, I need to break away from music to watch a movie. So until the morrow, sweet music, sweet dreams, and may there always be a never-ending opportunity to have copious quantities of sweets to eat. Ask Stavros, he's got an abundant supply of sweets.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton try Antwerpen next time.........
  
 SO more updates to follow........
  
 To all my friends in the West Coast, have  a nice and relaxing evening.
  
 Happy Listening


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> That would never work in Belgium. No Ramen Bars to dull the drink. At least when I'm wandering the Belgian landscape with Ultra. And that's not a complaint.
> 
> Well, I need to break away from music to watch a movie. So until the morrow, sweet music, sweet dreams, and may there always be a never-ending opportunity to have copious quantities of sweets to eat. Ask Stavros, he's got an abundant supply of sweets.


 
  





 If I'm wandering Belgium after hours with sunrise on the horizon, it's got to be hot Belgium Waffles swimming in French Butter and pure Maple syrup. Moar bubbly if Ultra insists.


----------



## rosgr63

SO I didn't know you joined the Bad Boys Club...............


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Clayton try Antwerpen next time.........
> 
> SO more updates to follow........
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, the members here are great the greatest! I previously had the Mhdt Balanced Havana for three months (stock) but the late coming sup'd up Wyred4Sound DAC moved it out of the way. The Havana had its moments, it's just that the system configured at the time spoke to the Shoe Box (W4S) over the Havana. It's always system/circuit dependent, yeah?
  
 I may bring in the Stockholm later this year... but only hyped up not stock, why bother?


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> SO I didn't know you joined the Bad Boys Club...............


 
  
 I'm not bad, I'm.... (SO realizes an additional 24 hrs is needed for a proper response and becomes once again... _silent_)


----------



## rosgr63

There's an even a better MHDT Labs DAC out.
  
 You are right you can customize the sound the MHDT DACs respond well to tube rolling.
  
 As we speak I am waiting for Lieven to send me some nice Hytron 2C51 to try.


----------



## rosgr63

Listening to Nat King Cole The Latin Hits.


----------



## Silent One

Of late, I haven't been following the Mhdt crew. But they did send me a free USBridge upgrade. And allowed me to keep the previous unit to boot! Now that's some nice folks right there!
  
 Will poke around and see what the latest DAC might be.


----------



## Silent One

Smooth, rich listening. Should make for a pleasant atmosphere at work if you're there.


----------



## Ultrainferno

All that can be arranged SO. Who else is coming over?


----------



## john57

rosgr63 said:


> John Bendix were making these tubes for aeronautical applications so I would have thought they had high standards.
> 
> I had Bendix with sorts, but they could have been rejects you never know.
> 
> What's happening this weekend?


 

 It would seem to me that some of the less than perfect Bendix ended up with the general public instead of the trash can.
  
  
 Well, for the weekend there is elections for the CAS(Colorado Audio Society) We are going to have  some of the best pizza in town! There will be an update for the next RMAF.
  
 Second, I will be listening to music on PS Audio Infinity IRS system.
  
 Third, PS Audio is having a World Premier Event. Some will say a “game changer” event. In fact PS audio is bringing a film crew to tape the event. Principals will be flown in.


----------



## rosgr63

Very exciting!
  
 Please keep us updated.


----------



## Silent One

Absolutely! In fact, Jude should arrange for you to be a real-time blogger from the PS Audio event.


----------



## Neogeo333

Any 300b expert can tell me what are these tubes? I know for sure Chelmer didn't make them. My bet is Chinese.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Not a saucer but maybe russian? No idea


----------



## Neogeo333

Glenn, gonna send them to you tomorrow. Hope they are good.


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Glenn, gonna send them to you tomorrow. Hope they are good.


 

 They look OK I will let you know how they sound
  
 George do you have my address?
  
 Thanks Glenn


----------



## Neogeo333

Nop, you should send me a private message.


----------



## 2359glenn

OK


----------



## dminches

A couple new GAPE pictures with some new additions.


----------



## jc9394

you brought the Tak, did you get that from pricejapan?  how does it compare to KR?


----------



## dminches

I found a barely used pair.
  
 I don't have any impressions yet.  I need to spend some time with them before I can really compare.


----------



## parbaked

dminches said:


> A couple new GAPE pictures with some new additions.


 
 GAPE dines kaiseki style...nice.
 Wasn't Stavros also going suggest some interesting alternatives when you were ready to swap out the KRs?


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> I found a barely used pair.
> 
> I don't have any impressions yet.  I need to spend some time with them before I can really compare.




Nice score, I was looking for a used pair for a long time but nothing shows up.


----------



## dminches

I also found a guy who will sell a new pair for about $1700, shipped.
  
curtis.hardin@gmail.com


----------



## jc9394

Too late, sold the WA5LE and can't afford the Glenn 300B amp for a long while. My tea tin is empty. Brought another lens.


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> My tea tin is empty.


 
 Not empty if you have Glenn OTL > HD800...plus that SS stuff when it's too hot for tubes...you are stylin'...cheers!


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Too late, sold the WA5LE and can't afford the Glenn 300B amp for a long while. My tea tin is empty. Brought another lens.


 
  
 Maybe we consolidate our tins one day; share a purchase. You get the first three months!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


>


 
 Great avatar!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Am I the only one who finds GAPE an awful name for such a nice amp?


----------



## Silent One

Xcalibur255 and I stand in front of you, same corner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 In fact, I've been waiting for him to return with a ballot box!


----------



## rosgr63

Nice tubes David!
  
 Steven I like your new Avatar!
 Should I use my angel photo or......................


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Maybe we consolidate our tins one day; share a purchase. You get the first three months!


 
  
  
 i like time share...


----------



## Ultrainferno

This is my song of the week
  

  
  
 Stavros, here's another pic of the nice boxes


----------



## dminches

ultrainferno said:


> Am I the only one who finds GAPE an awful name for such a nice amp?




I am open to new names.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote:
  
  
 I like the new tubes but think the KRs look better I don't know what sounds better.
 Going to order the KRs tomorrow these are over my budget


dminches said:


> A couple new GAPE pictures with some new additions.


----------



## dminches

The KRs are definitely nicer looking.
  
 By the end of the weekend I'll have a good comparison of the sound.


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> This is my song of the week
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 Thanks for the Kingston trio post. I just got the capitol years collection - great stuff. I'm really enjoying it


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Lieven!


----------



## daigo

dminches said:


> A couple new GAPE pictures with some new additions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, are those the Takatsuki TA-300B's?


----------



## dminches

Yes, they are.


----------



## parbaked

dminches said:


> I am open to new names.


 
 Maybe consider adding Glenn's initial "R" resulting in "GRAPE"
 When the new OTL name is revealed she will be called:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 "GRxxx"


----------



## Ultrainferno

Better. Or just call it "The Chosen One"


----------



## dminches

ultrainferno said:


> Better. Or just call it "The Chosen One"


 
  
 Is it Jewish?


----------



## dminches

I have some other names in mind.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Here I was feeling guilty about the comment I made on the amp's name.  I was afraid it might have sounded mean.
  
 SO and I can try to find a nice Japanese word that's musically related, but I already took the best one for myself so no promises.


----------



## parbaked

dminches said:


> I have some other names in mind.


 
  


dminches said:


> Is it Jewish?


 
 David, the amp's name and religious upbringing are certainly your decision...


----------



## dminches

xcalibur255 said:


> Here I was feeling guilty about the comment I made on the amp's name.  I was afraid it might have sounded mean.
> 
> SO and I can try to find a nice Japanese word that's musically related, but I already took the best one for myself so no promises.


 
  
 Tyrell, it was a little mean, but it was honest and true so no harm done!


----------



## dminches

I was thinking of    Qiang 300 PE.  Qiang is Chinese for powerful.
  
 Honest comments are welcomed.


----------



## dminches

parbaked said:


> David, the amp's name and religious upbringing are certainly your decision...


 
  
 This made me laugh.  Well done.


----------



## Xcalibur255

dminches said:


> Tyrell, it was a little mean, but it was honest and true so no harm done!


 
  
 Less mean than the way Ultra has put it, but I apologize nevertheless.


----------



## Xcalibur255

dminches said:


> I was thinking of    Qiang 300 PE.  Qiang is Chinese for powerful.
> 
> Honest comments are welcomed.


 

 There is also Ryoku, which means strength or power in Japanese.  I'm rather partial to Utau as well, which means 'to sing'.
  
 I'm kind of surprised there isn't a Chinese audio brand named Qiang actually.


----------



## dminches

xcalibur255 said:


> Less mean than the way Ultra has put it, but I apologize nevertheless.


 
  
 Really, no need to apologize.


----------



## dminches

xcalibur255 said:


> There is also Ryoku, which means strength or power in Japanese.  I'm rather partial to Utau as well, which means 'to sing'.
> 
> I'm kind of surprised there isn't a Chinese audio brand named Qiang actually.


 
  Ryoku is too close to Roku. 
  
 Do you like Qiang?  And, what about having the 300 PE along with it or should it just be Qiang?


----------



## parbaked

"_Thermopylae 300 PE_" in honor of the 300 Spartans
  
 David, do let us know what religion you select so we can send the correct holiday card!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I wasnt mean. I was direct and honest


----------



## Xcalibur255

dminches said:


> Ryoku is too close to Roku.
> 
> Do you like Qiang?  And, what about having the 300 PE along with it or should it just be Qiang?


 

 I think all that matters is that *you* like the name you give it.
  
 You could call it The Corrupter since it delivers absolute power.


----------



## dminches

That's what I told Tyrell.  One can't be faulted for being honest.


----------



## 2359glenn

I got used to it being called GAPE
 Change it and you guys will confuse me 
 I am pretty simple minded


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Too late, sold the WA5LE and can't afford the Glenn 300B amp for a long while. My tea tin is empty. Brought another lens.





Lol same here. Gotta save as much as I can. Ive been enjoying my Merc CLA250 alot though. I actually want to upgrade to the CLA 45 amg


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Lol same here. Gotta save as much as I can. Ive been enjoying my Merc CLA250 alot though. I actually want to upgrade to the CLA 45 amg




Wow, you better go easy on the pedal if you ever get the AMG series. I wanted to get the E63 myself but think I will settle with Bumblebee Z28.


----------



## john57

jc9394 said:


> Wow, you better go easy on the pedal if you ever get the AMG series. I wanted to get the E63 myself but think I will settle with Bumblebee Z28.


 
 I did lease a 300Z for a year when I was working at Nissan at one time. Actually the Nissan Maxima with stick gave me the most fun.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Lol same here. Gotta save as much as I can. Ive been enjoying my Merc CLA250 alot though. I actually want to upgrade to the CLA 45 amg


 
 how is the snow treating your merc? Any close calls? Do you get nervous parking it up in town, knowing that you wont see it for a while? A friend of mine just bought a new car and he is so touchy parking it. Any time he sees an old lady with a shopping trolley he freaks! Its funny.


----------



## Xcalibur255

magiccabbage said:


> how is the snow treating your merc? Any close calls? Do you get nervous parking it up in town, knowing that you wont see it for a while? A friend of mine just bought a new car and he is so touchy parking it. Any time he sees an old lady with a shopping trolley he freaks! Its funny.


 
 I get so worked up and obsessive about stuff like this that I probably am done buying new cars after the one I got most recently.  I end up ruining it for myself.


----------



## Neogeo333

Happens all the time with new cars.  Even my family car the Odyssey when new I was very protective of it, couple of years later, dont care for it anymore.  My darling was a Infinity G35 then someone put a ring on my finger and pooff G35 gone.


----------



## jc9394

LOL, I remember when I drive my G35 out the the lot, I drive it like I stole it. I like my car but I don't baby it anymore and I'm a valid whore...


----------



## Neogeo333

jc9394 said:


> LOL, I remember when I drive my G35 out the the lot, I drive it like I stole it. I like my car but I don't baby it anymore and I'm a valid whore...


 
 Sedan or coupe?  Mine was a coupe metallic blue, only 1 of 2 cars with that color in the whole of PR.  Thinking about it now makes me wanna trade her in for a G37


----------



## dminches

I got a G37x 6 months ago. Great car.


----------



## jc9394

neogeo333 said:


> Sedan or coupe?  Mine was a coupe metallic blue, only 1 of 2 cars with that color in the whole of PR.  Thinking about it now makes me wanna trade her in for a G37:evil:




First one was coupe, have the G35x now. The coupe was a two yrs lease.


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> I got a G37x 6 months ago. Great car.




Infiniti confuse the crap of me, all G37 are Q50 now.


----------



## parbaked

If you adopt a dog you stop worrying about your car...it eventually becomes your dog's car!
 My Cooper S is now called the WilmaBeast:


----------



## Neogeo333

I love dogs, but getting two rotties inside a G35? no way.  Used to own a 4Runner 2003 just so I could take them to the vet.  Miss them so much.


----------



## longbowbbs

18 inches of snow tonight so I had a chance to set up the new Turntable.....
  

  

  

  

  

  
 VPI Scout 1.1 with a Dynavector 10X5 cartridge.....1st up on the playlist, Steely Dan Aja in 180 Gram Vinyl.......


----------



## jc9394

Nice table, I need to take my P3 out of closet and the Marantz receiver too.


----------



## parbaked

> Miss them so much.


 
 Sorry about that...I know how you feel...


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> 18 inches of snow tonight so I had a chance to set up the new Turntable...
> 
> VPI Scout 1.1 with a Dynavector 10X5 cartridge.....1st up on the playlist, Steely Dan Aja in 180 Gram Vinyl.......


----------



## parbaked

longbowbbs said:


> 18 inches of snow tonight so I had a chance to set up the new Turntable....1st up on the playlist, Steely Dan Aja in 180 Gram Vinyl.......


 
 That's only 10 grams per inch...you are good to go...enjoy...cheers!


----------



## Silent One

I think if I had to deal with a lot of snow, I'd invest more in audio.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It doesn't really work like that when the snow is the norm and not the exception unfortunately.


----------



## Silent One

If I'm going to be locked-in, well...


----------



## Ultrainferno




----------



## alota

beautiful!


----------



## preproman

Hello everyone and Glenn,
  
 I would like to know if Glenn makes an amp specifically (so to speak) designed for the HD800s?  I would like to look into purchasing one.  My HD800s are hardwired with a 4 pin XLR connector.  The amp can be SE but has to have a 4-pin XLR output - is that possible?
  
 Where can I find some pictures of these creations?
  
 Thanks
 Darryl


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> It doesn't really work like that when the snow is the norm and not the exception unfortunately.


 

 This is why I moved south had enough of the snow and cold in upstate New York


----------



## 2359glenn

preproman said:


> Hello everyone and Glenn,
> 
> I would like to know if Glenn makes an amp specifically (so to speak) designed for the HD800s?  I would like to look into purchasing one.  My HD800s are hardwired with a 4 pin XLR connector.  The amp can be SE but has to have a 4-pin XLR output - is that possible?
> 
> ...


 
 I originally designed this amp for my HD650s and HD800s
 The amp is single ended I really don't get the balanced thing.

 Here is a normal one
  

  
 One with 4 pin Xlr and 6336 outputs


----------



## Silent One

preproman, great to see you in our small and cozy corner over here...


----------



## dminches

Introducing Selah 300 PE, formerly known as GAPE. Feel free to just call her Selah (accent on the second syllable). 

Selah is a Hebrew word, often found in Psalms, which can be translated to mean "stop and listen".


----------



## preproman

2359glenn said:


> I originally designed this amp for my HD650s and HD800s
> The amp is single ended I really don't get the balanced thing.
> 
> Here is a normal one
> ...


 
  
  
 Great, looks good.  What the name of the amp?  I would like one with if possible.  How should we proceed?


----------



## preproman

silent one said:


> preproman, great to see you in our small and cozy corner over here...


 
 Good to be here.  I know it's a good place to be if you're here.


----------



## Ultrainferno

dminches said:


> Introducing Selah 300 PE, formerly known as GAPE. Feel free to just call her Selah (accent on the second syllable).
> 
> Selah is a Hebrew word, often found in Psalms, which can be translated to mean "stop and listen".


 
   
Like it!


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Like it!


 
 +1 
 Selah


----------



## Silent One

preproman said:


> Good to be here.  I know it's a good place to be if you're here.


 
 Due to memory by association, now whenever I listen to 'Jazz On The Latin Side', I wonder what you've been up to and if you're listening.


----------



## preproman

silent one said:


> Due to memory by association, now whenever I listen to 'Jazz On The Latin Side', I wonder what you've been up to and if you're listening.


 
  
 Oh yes lots of Latin Jazz. Also, free jazz, jazz orchetras and just any type of jazz I can get my hands on execpt smooth jazz.(just some of that).


----------



## alota

preproman said:


> Hello everyone and Glenn,
> 
> I would like to know if Glenn makes an amp specifically (so to speak) designed for the HD800s?  I would like to look into purchasing one.  My HD800s are hardwired with a 4 pin XLR connector.  The amp can be SE but has to have a 4-pin XLR output - is that possible?
> 
> ...


 
 you with the tubes?
 don´t leave me alone with solid state


----------



## Silent One

I like having a foot in each backyard. Though, more cookouts tend to be on the tube owners side.


----------



## alota

silent one said:


> I like having a foot in each backyard. Though, more cookouts tend to be on the tube owners side.



I was a tube owner


----------



## dminches

The bass produced by Selah is unreal, even with digital sources.


----------



## Silent One

I like an amp that can shovel a bit with a firm grip. Sounds like my kinda amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Happy Friday, everyone.
 Guess what I got in the mail today from Ultra.
 Thanks, Ultra!


----------



## Neogeo333

dminches said:


> The bass produced by Selah is unreal, even with digital sources.



The temptation is strong, must resist urge.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Happy Friday, everyone.
> Guess what I got in the mail today from Ultra.
> Thanks, Ultra!


 
  
 Enjoy your Danbo Clayton! He's cool!
 It's a little something to remind you of Sofie and me and the good times we had in Belgium


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Happy Friday, everyone.
> Guess what I got in the mail today from Ultra.
> Thanks, Ultra!


 
 Ready for his close up in _The City that knows how._


----------



## parbaked

I love it...he had to get straightened up after the long flight!
 Congrats Clayton...that's one cool little buddy!


----------



## GrindingThud

I had no idea what a danbo was until now.....and I thought I was meme savvy. Very cool!


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> The bass produced by Selah is unreal, even with digital sources.


 

 So that is the new name Selah What does it mean?
  
 The bass and overall SQ in a transformer amp is all in the proper transformers.
 And those transformers being wired for 40ohm secondary. Really matches to those headphones
 perfectly without using any resistors to screw up the damping factor and sound.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> So that is the new name Selah What does it mean?
> 
> The bass and overall SQ in a transformer amp is all in the proper transformers.
> And those transformers being wired for 40ohm secondary. Really matches to those headphones
> perfectly without using any resistors to screw up the damping factor and sound.


 
  
 Glenn, Selah is a Hebrew word which translates to "stop and listen."


----------



## parbaked

dminches said:


> Glenn, Selah is a Hebrew word which translates to "stop and listen."


 
 Nice David...we may have to rename the New OTL. 
 What's Hebrew for "mix a strong cocktail and listen?"
 It's just a thought...Stavros has final say.


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Nice David...we may have to rename the New OTL.
> What's Hebrew for "mix a strong cocktail and listen?"
> It's just a thought...Stavros has final say.


 
  
 I like how people in Holland refer to Amsterdam as *Mokum Alef*.
 Your GlennAmp could be _*Mokum Gemel*_. Or along those lines.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> LOL, I remember when I drive my G35 out the the lot, I drive it like I stole it. I like my car but I don't baby it anymore and I'm a valid whore...






jc9394 said:


> Wow, you better go easy on the pedal if you ever get the AMG series. I wanted to get the E63 myself but think I will settle with Bumblebee Z28.




I am pretty hard on my cars, i always drive fast. I am good with the interior though.


How are infinitis? My boss drives one, an 08 g35 or g37. I also have a coworker with a maxima, its nice and it made me consider a loaded altima, but the interior isnt as good as mercedes. The "leather" on the maxima isnt much better than the "mb tex pleather" and the plastics are harder and its overall not as nice. More roomy though

As of now, the amg cla 45 will be my dream car. Well actually maybe a 2015 C class with red leather or the 2015 S class coupe. Hmm. Or maybe a beamer M5 or a Panamera S Turbo, ultimate commute car!! 



magiccabbage said:


> how is the snow treating your merc? Any close calls? Do you get nervous parking it up in town, knowing that you wont see it for a while? A friend of mine just bought a new car and he is so touchy parking it. Any time he sees an old lady with a shopping trolley he freaks! Its funny.





Its really good in snow even without the 4matic all wheel drive. No close calls except today i slided more than i wanted to when coming out of a ramp. There was water. Was going too fast of course.

I gotta be careful when i pass and when i merge on interstates, its way too easy to hit triple digits and not notice cause the car drives so smooth. 

I do get a little nervous parking it, but im getting used to it.


----------



## rosgr63

alota said:


> you with the tubes?
> don´t leave me alone with solid state


 
  
 I am still on SS Aldo, you are not alone.
  


parbaked said:


> Nice David...we may have to rename the New OTL.
> What's Hebrew for "mix a strong cocktail and listen?"
> It's just a thought...Stavros has final say.


 
  
 I don't mind Steven, as long as it has a nice feminine sound to it.


----------



## parbaked

> I don't mind Steven, as long as it has a nice feminine sound to it.


 
 Stavros, I like the beautiful name you selected, especially after I saw her picture...little angel...


----------



## rosgr63

Oh man, a name should have a logo and this will be a puttanesca style amp............


----------



## parbaked

The logo will have to be very, very small, or we will get in BIG trouble!


----------



## rosgr63

You're so right!!!!!!
  
 What about I "enhance" it a bit?


----------



## 2359glenn

How are you getting in big trouble??
If you plan on getting in big trouble keep talking to Stavros and me!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> How are you getting in big trouble??


 
 Suggestive symbolism in the "puttanesca's" logo...we will ALL be in trouble.
 That angel is no angel!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have no idea anymore what you're all talking about. Back to the 300B


----------



## 2359glenn

I thought the name of the 300B amp has been taken care of.
It is the name of the experimental OTL that needs a name That is up to Stavros and Steven.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I mean, back to my 300B to listen to some more music


----------



## 2359glenn

I have to get back to building amps before I head off to the supermarket with L


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> I am still on SS Aldo, you are not alone.
> 
> 
> I don't mind Steven, as long as it has a nice feminine sound to it.


 

 Daryll has only solid state, one of last.
 remember me the movie highlander
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 there can be only one(me)
 you has a lot of vecchie putt..., sorry old tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

You guys have to find out what you are missing by using SS amplification !!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> You guys have to find out what you are missing by using SS amplification !!!!


 

 They don't know what they're missing!


----------



## parbaked

Really nice picture Ultra...your 300B is even more stunning from that angle...cheers!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Really nice picture Ultra...your 300B is even more stunning from that angle...cheers!


 
 +1
  
 Also, "2014" is the year Glenn will have us all _Go Ultra Linear. _





 
  
  
 Update: We may need to get him some elves.


----------



## john57

Glenn,
  
 I would say again, that your 300B tube designs are some of the best efforts I have seen even thou I have yet to hear one.
 Getting ready for show time at PS Audio. I am guessing it will be a full house.


----------



## Silent One

Will be looking for your return, john57... enjoy!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> They don't know what they're missing!


 
  
 Ultra. I'll have to arrange another visit to listen to your Glenn Amp 300B. Nice. Even the plant wants to get closer to Glenn's amp.  Unless it thinks the RK-60 with its adapter is another plant.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Ultra. I'll have to arrange another visit to listen to your Glenn Amp 300B. Nice. Even the plant wants to get closer to Glenn's amp.  Unless it thinks the RK-60 with its adapter is another plant.




You are welcome any time C!


----------



## rosgr63

alota said:


> Daryll has only solid state, one of last.
> remember me the movie highlander
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Remember you love tubes!!!!!
 I am just a ragazzo cattivo........
  


2359glenn said:


> How are you getting in big trouble??
> If you plan on getting in big trouble keep talking to Stavros and me!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  
 Steven, Glenn is right the more you talk to us the worse it will get.............
 It's like falling in quick sand


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> They don't know what they're missing!


 
  
  
 Nice!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MJS242

Hey Glenn, I dropped my 339 in the mail today.  You should have it Wednesday.  I know you're busy, so no worries on the time.  Even if you wanted to casually listen to it for awhile, feel free. I'd be curious about your impressions compared with your custom OTL.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Steven, Glenn is right the more you talk to us the worse it will get.............
> It's like falling in quick sand


 
 Steven you are doomed we really are a very bad influence !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

mjs242 said:


> Hey Glenn, I dropped my 339 in the mail today.  You should have it Wednesday.  I know you're busy, so no worries on the time.  Even if you wanted to casually listen to it for awhile, feel free. I'd be curious about your impressions compared with your custom OTL.


 

 I hope you didn't drop it !!
 Did you send tubes I don't know if I have 6SJ7s on hand.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> Steven you are doomed we really are a very bad influence !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
 Yes...wifey is already questioning why my office door is double-locked!


----------



## MJS242

2359glenn said:


> I hope you didn't drop it !!
> Did you send tubes I don't know if I have 6SJ7s on hand.


 
  
 Don't worry it's packed and taped really well.  There's so much tape on it, it could probably be considered water proof at this point.  I figured you may not have the 6SJ7 tube so I included two of the stock tubes (6Ж4С) and two EF80's with adapters (I've only ever used the stock tubes for testing).  I assumed you would have the 6AS7G tubes covered so I didn't include any.


----------



## Ultrainferno

How come he's sending you a 339. Is it broken? Are you getting it pimped up?
 I like my 339 but I don't think Glenn will appreciate the dark grainy sound compared to his great OTL
  
 Glenn, build a 6SJ7 to EF80 adapter. Sweeter sound!


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> Yes...wifey is already questioning why my office door is double-locked!


 
  
 I feel sorry for M.
 I really do.
  
 Steven you are going to get into trouble sooner than you think.
  
 Back to the drawing board for my custom headphones plug........


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Back to the drawing board for my custom headphones plug........


 
 Stavros, you should try to finish tonight.
 You do not want to be thinking about that all night...buona fortuna amico mio!


----------



## GrindingThud

Ooh, ultralinear. I have an SCA-35 just begging to be repurposed into a head-amp. 



silent one said:


> +1
> 
> Also, "2014" is the year Glenn will have us all _Go Ultra Linear. _:wink_face:
> 
> ...


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Also, "2014" is the year Glenn will have us all _Go Ultra Linear. _


 
 I've had this for 20 years...it's only "_Linear_"...can I send it to Glenn or does it have to go all the way to Belgium for the "_Ultra_" upgrade???
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Ultrainferno

It does, at least for 6,months


----------



## MJS242

ultrainferno said:


> How come he's sending you a 339. Is it broken? Are you getting it pimped up?
> I like my 339 but I don't think Glenn will appreciate the dark grainy sound compared to his great OTL
> 
> Glenn, build a 6SJ7 to EF80 adapter. Sweeter sound!


 
  
 She's been misbehaving.  Also, wanted to get Glenn's opinion on whether upgrades would be worthwhile.  I'm actually glad to hear his OTL sounds different from the 339.  I was reluctant to get another OTL because I was worried it would sound too similar.  Now I think I have a good reason


----------



## 2359glenn

mjs242 said:


> She's been misbehaving.  Also, wanted to get Glenn's opinion on whether upgrades would be worthwhile.  I'm actually glad to hear his OTL sounds different from the 339.  I was reluctant to get another OTL because I was worried it would sound too similar.  Now I think I have a good reason


 

 I will have to look at it
 Don't know why it sounds grainy maybe it is that crazy taking the output of the driver off the screen grid.
 The 6SJ7 is not that different from the WE310 or the C3 tubes that I use. I don't find graininess  in
 my amps that use this type tube.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> I will have to look at it
> Don't know why it sounds grainy maybe it is that crazy taking the output of the driver off the screen grid.
> The 6SJ7 is not that different from the WE310 or the C3 tubes that I use. I don't find graininess  in
> my amps that use this type tube.


 
 It is because the 339 has no monkey business inside...interested to hear what you think after you peak under the hood.


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> It is because the 339 has no monkey business inside...interested to hear what you think after you peak under the hood.


 

 That is what I have to add in a mod monkey business.
 Call it the monkey mod.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> That is what I have to add in a mod monkey business.
> Call it the monkey mod.


 
  
 Disclaimer: No monkeys are harmed during the monkey mod...in fact they enjoy it tremendously!


----------



## Neogeo333

Like these monkeys?


----------



## longbowbbs

"Get your stinking hands off my amp you damn dirty ape!!"
  
 (I love that movie!)


----------



## Neogeo333

They keep messing up with the last two Apes movie.  Hope Oldman can save it.


----------



## longbowbbs

I just saw a preview for another one..."Dawn of the Planet of the Apes" I think.....


----------



## Neogeo333

Thats the new one, Gary Oldman is in it.  The last one along the one with marky mark were utter crap.  Let see what a real actor can do to this franchise.


----------



## longbowbbs

I love Gary Oldman...Just saw him in Robocop....Great as always!


----------



## Neogeo333

Yes, but his greatest works was when he did the villain.  "Benny, bring me everyone, Everyone!"


----------



## rosgr63

The newest release is called "Glenn's land of the Apes"
  
 Glenn is the producer, Steven, Clayton and me the directors!!!!!


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> The newest release is called "Glenn's land of the Apes"
> 
> Glenn is the producer, Steven, Clayton and me the directors!!!!!


 

 this is me eating pizza.
 how you found my film?


----------



## alota

longbowbbs said:


> I love Gary Oldman...Just saw him in Robocop....Great as always!


 

 agree


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> Like these monkeys?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 George, this look like the equipment that Stavros and Ultra were packing when they tried to kidnap Selah!
 They must have found some NOS kits!


----------



## Neogeo333

parbaked said:


> George, this look like the equipment that Stavros and Ultra were packing when they tried to kidnap Selah!
> They must have found some NOS kits!




Those two are always up to no good. I tried to get one from them but they only had two.


----------



## parbaked

alota said:


> this is me eating pizza.
> how you found my film?


 
 Stavros mentioned he recruited a "Sicilian heartthrob" to star.
 We did not know it was Aldo!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 
heart·throb
  ˈhärtˌTHräb/
_noun_ _informal_

 

 *1*.
   a man, typically a celebrity, whose good looks excite immature romantic feelings in women.

_synonyms:_idol, pinup, star, superstar; More


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> The newest release is called "Glenn's land of the Apes"
> Glenn is the producer, Steven, Clayton and me the directors!!!!!


 
  
 Three directors receiving instructions from Glenn.
 Stavros, it looks like you're falling asleep.
 This should be interesting.

  
*Planet of the Amps*
_"The tubes were caged up and got overheated, but once released from their hot environment, they took over the world!_"
 Distributed by *Ultra*-films, Belgium
 Coming this Summer!
 Lookout!
  
 Now where's my popcorn?


----------



## alota

parbaked said:


> Stavros mentioned he recruited a "Sicilian heartthrob" to star.
> We did not know it was Aldo!
> 
> 
> ...


 

 not everyone has my hairy fascination


----------



## 2359glenn

Richards OTL amp with Gold Point stepped attenuator 6SN7, 6336 ,3DG4 tubes
 Not quite finished yet but close.
  
 Front
  

  
 Top


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> Richards OTL amp with Gold Point stepped attenuator 6SN7, 6336 ,3DG4 tubes
> Not quite finished yet but close.
> 
> Front
> ...


 
 Another sweet amp! Great work as always Glenn!
  
 Richard, it will be fun to compare that to the CSP2+......


----------



## alota

2359glenn said:


> Richards OTL amp with Gold Point stepped attenuator 6SN7, 6336 ,3DG4 tubes
> Not quite finished yet but close.
> 
> Front
> ...


 

 i like. hammond chokes?


----------



## 2359glenn

alota said:


> i like. hammond chokes?


 
 Yes those are hammond chokes.


----------



## rnadell

2359glenn said:


> Richards OTL amp with Gold Point stepped attenuator 6SN7, 6336 ,3DG4 tubes
> Not quite finished yet but close.
> 
> Front
> ...


 
 What a way to wake up, thanks Glenn and thanks to all who make this so much fun around here. 
 Now to focus on the rest of the journey


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> I am pretty hard on my cars, i always drive fast. I am good with the interior though.
> 
> 
> As of now, the amg cla 45 will be my dream car. Well actually maybe a 2015 C class with red leather or the 2015 S class coupe. Hmm. Or maybe a beamer M5 or a Panamera S Turbo, ultimate commute car!!
> ...


 
  
 Calling DG, your ride just arrived.  Euro spec'd AMG C63.


----------



## alota

jc9394 said:


> Calling DG, your ride just arrived.  Euro spec'd AMG C63.


----------



## Neogeo333

It looks more like a rocket!  Bet it goes like one too.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

:rolleyes:


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> Calling DG, your ride just arrived.  Euro spec'd AMG C63.


 
 Is this yours - is that your house in the background?


----------



## alota

magiccabbage said:


> Is this yours - is that your house in the background?


 

 no, that is the gardener´s house


----------



## Solitary1

2359glenn said:


> Richards OTL amp with Gold Point stepped attenuator 6SN7, 6336 ,3DG4 tubes
> Not quite finished yet but close.
> 
> Front
> ...


 
  
 That's so nice.


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> Is this yours - is that your house in the background?




No, this is my ride.


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> No, this is my ride.


 
 sweet


alota said:


> no, that is the gardener´s house


 
 nice!


----------



## parbaked

rnadell said:


> What a way to wake up, thanks Glenn and thanks to all who make this so much fun around here.
> Now to focus on the rest of the journey


 
 Congratulations Richard! Nice Glenn!
 Good to see such a sweet amp making it's way out to CA!
 I don't think your fun starts until the un-boxing...pics in situ if that's your thing.
 Love to see it in it's new home.
 Cheers!


----------



## Silent One

@ rnadell


----------



## Silent One

The story of my missing pair of 1944 Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plate VT-231 drive tubes; 1957 USAF-596 rectifier? _Found... another happy ending._





  
 Since JUL-2013 I have been searching high and low lookin' for them suckas! Each time I'd visit my storage unit about once every 10 days, I'd carefully revisit the boxes marked "Tubes" and ALL of the remaining boxes in case I misplaced them.
  
 So, how did I find them now? Pure chance. Last night I needed to retrieve an important certificate from my home safe. Swung the door open and voila! I would have never thought to look there. It turns out when I packing a few hundred tubes in a few boxes, they were the only tubes that wouldn't fit so I just tossed 'em in the safe rather than get a whole new box.


----------



## hodgjy

silent one said:


> The story of my missing pair of 1944 Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plate VT-231 drive tubes; 1957 USAF-596 rectifier? _Found... another happy ending._
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's even better than finding money in the pockets of a pair of pants you haven't worn in years!


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> The story of my missing pair of 1944 Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plate VT-231 drive tubes; 1957 USAF-596 rectifier? _Found... another happy ending._


 
 "_Keep your tubes safe...in your Tube Safetm_"
  
 SO, with the price of NOS tubes,  we might have a business opportunity here...


----------



## Silent One

hodgjy said:


> That's even better than finding money in the pockets of a pair of pants you haven't worn in years!


 





 I'm feelin' good, baby!
  
  


> Originally Posted by *parbaked* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> "_Keep your tubes safe...in your Tube Safetm_"
> ...


 
  
 Well, I completed moving my audio rig to the new address Saturday! I'm temporarily without home internet - can't afford it. I'm thinking of selling 'em and that'll get me connected to this thread without spending for watered down tea @ SBUX.


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations Richard, nice work Glenn, well done!!!!!!!
  
 Aldo I thought you were not technical minded, yet you always amaze me.......................


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> Congratulations Richard, nice work Glenn, well done!!!!!!!
> 
> Aldo I thought you were not technical minded, yet you always amaze me.......................


 
 pure luck.
 i have 4 chokes in my beta-22


----------



## rosgr63

The sweetest 2C51 I've ever seen!!!!!!!!!
  
 Thanks very much Lieven.
 You've managed to cure my addiction at long last.......


----------



## 2359glenn

That sure does look sweet


----------



## parbaked

That's the sweetest packing material ever!
 Glenn, you could maybe use old fruitcakes for the amps...


----------



## rosgr63

L's cookies helped a lot in the past but my addiction wasn't cured.
  
 I hope this will be a more permanent cure.............
  
 What do you think Glenn?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Glad you like it Stavros. I was afraid that in all your excitement you would eat the tubes too so I put them in an extra bag just to be on the safe side


----------



## rosgr63

Good thinking!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> L's cookies helped a lot in the past but my addiction wasn't cured.
> 
> I hope this will be a more permanent cure.............
> 
> What do you think Glenn?


 

 There is no cure for your addiction to sweets and tubes and girls.
 not sure if that is the rite order.


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> That's the sweetest packing material ever!
> Glenn, you could maybe use old fruitcakes for the amps...


 

 That is the only thing fruitcakes are good for packing material as long as the recipient throws it away when they get it.


----------



## rosgr63

Order and me don't go together............


----------



## 2359glenn

David
  
 Have you came up with a opinion on the Takatsuki 300Bs


----------



## dminches

I have been listening to them for a week now and they are wonderful.  I can't really compare them to the KRs since I didn't have them in for long.  I will switch back at some point, but right now I don't want to change anything.  Selah sounds sooooo good.


----------



## Silent One

I'd give it 21 days at minimum before swapping them out...


----------



## dminches

Agreed


----------



## 2359glenn

Then don't touch anything
 I did send you some music.


----------



## john57

If someone is wondering what is going on with PS Audio here a video presentation that was given to CAS members that I am part of on February 21st.  I hope you find the video interesting. I also heard for myself that there was quite a difference between the PS Audio PerfectWave and the new DirectStream. It was a very remarkable demonstration.
  
  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7z7QXWto-k


----------



## Silent One

john57 said:


> If someone is wondering what is going on with PS Audio here a video presentation that was given to CAS members that I am part of on February 21st.  I hope you find the video interesting. I also heard for myself that there was quite a difference between the PS Audio PerfectWave and the new DirectStream. It was a very remarkable demonstration.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7z7QXWto-k


 
  
 Thanks, enjoyed the vid. Got Part 2 so we can hear Ted's talk?


----------



## john57

They are still editing the video the last I head.
 The directstream will be using a Xilinx Spartan 6 FPGA instead of a DAC chip.
  
P.S.
  
Here is more information. 
  
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2014/02/ps-audio-to-rescue-pcm-with-directstream-perfectwave-dac/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ps-audio-to-rescue-pcm-with-directstream-perfectwave-dac
  
Here is the white paper
  
http://www.psaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/DirectStream-DAC-white-paper.pdf


----------



## Silent One

Thanks! Will sit down and enjoy with dinner this evening...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Mr. D keeps wanting to hear the RK60 tonight!


----------



## john57

For more videos on PS Audio you can go to
  
 http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6mzA8J7n0ylf0RnDpj-vrg
   
More  discussion on the PS web site or at computer audiophile

  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/ps-audio-directstream-digital-analogue-converter-19591/
  
 Take care and have a good weekend


----------



## wotts

Thanks for the links! I was considering selling my PWD Mk II, but I might upgrade now.


----------



## Silent One

Yeah, _Stream_ could be a very big upgrade to existing owners.


----------



## wotts

I'd like to compare one to my Mk II. I have a few nitpick issues that I'd like to see fixed with the upgrade. After reading about the way the clocking works (on the PS Audio forum) I'm not sure with will solve the problem I have.
  
 I shared some of this with SO already, but I wanted show off some pictures I took last weekend on my vacation:
  

 Space Shuttle Orbiter Atlantis!
  

  My "this is my happy face" with Atlantis


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I'd like to compare one to my Mk II. I have a few nitpick issues that I'd like to see fixed with the upgrade. After reading about the way the clocking works (on the PS Audio forum) I'm not sure with will solve the problem I have.
> 
> I shared some of this with SO already, but I wanted show off some pictures I took last weekend on my vacation:
> 
> ...


----------



## longbowbbs

Awesome Wotts! Was that at Cape Canaveral?


----------



## wotts

longbowbbs said:


> Awesome Wotts! Was that at Cape Canaveral?


 
  
  
 Thanks! Indeed it was. I flew down specifically to go on a tour through the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) and out to Launch Complex 39A. NASA opened both to the public for the first time in 30 years since there were no space programs using them. It ended up raining while we were on the tour so that was a real bummer, but it was something I'll never forget.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Thanks! Will sit down and enjoy with dinner this evening...


 
 is that you in the profile pic? Looking very silent.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Made a new cake for my 2 y.o. godchild


----------



## rosgr63

Wow!
 Very nice Lieven!!!!!!!
  
 Next year make it look like a tube, have to start proper training early.
  
 Happy Birthday!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## parbaked

That's a fantastic cake!
 Next cake will be of Ultra's new OTL...with 8 tubes!


----------



## alota

ultrainferno said:


> Made a new cake for my 2 y.o. godchild


 

 after the fantastic Mr. D, this fantastic cake
 you are an artist.
 happy birthady to your kid


----------



## GrindingThud

Yum! I hope it was enjoyed by all. 



ultrainferno said:


> Made a new cake for my 2 y.o. godchild


----------



## Silent One

grindingthud said:


> Yum! I hope it was enjoyed by all.


 
 +1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm hungry!


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> is that you in the profile pic? Looking very silent.


 
  
 Sorry, it's Michael Mercer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am at once silent and reserved. If you're page displays signatures at the bottom of a person's post, you'll notice mine:
  
*Avatar . :    TMAC selects Michael Mercer | He wants to take us higher**    : :    : : *


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Sorry, it's Michael Mercer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh yea mike mercer - i knew he looked familiar, He has a Studio 6 and McIntosh DAC. Lovely setup.


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Sorry, it's Michael Mercer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I miss Ms Mok! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The LBD with pearls was especially nice.


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> I miss Ms Mok!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




 I think I'm missin' Ms Mok, too. 
  
 Perhaps, after we give M Mercer a storied run through March, I'll be back combing through HK media looking for the next one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Can't seem to recall the one with pearls.


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Can't seem to recall the one with pearls.


 





 she's stunning. Mercer cannot compete photogenically! 
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Silent One

O-H.... now I remember.


----------



## wotts

I didn't either. Still don't, but I am for the reminderss.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks guys, I liked the cake too. I ate too much of it though.
 Just booked a holiday in Lisbon, Portugal for next month. Any good audio stores I should visit there? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I've been getting criticized a lot on Headfi lately and frankly I've had enough of the ignorant and plain stupid Head-fi crowd, so I won't be posting on the board for while. Luckily the people in this thread are nice, well educated and have decent manners.
  
 Ps. SO, why the heck would you want a Mercer avatar. Unless it's some kind of joke. in that case: Good one!


----------



## rosgr63

Lisbon is a great city, nice food and drink, nice people too.
  
 Don't let some people get to you.
 We have better things to do than arguing and wasting time with ignorant, biased or self proclaimed gurus!!!!!!


----------



## alota

ultrainferno said:


> Thanks guys, I liked the cake too. I ate too much of it though.
> Just booked a holiday in Lisbon, Portugal for next month. Any good audio stores I should visit there?
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Luz&Som, near to the river
 Ultimate-Audio, near to Benfica Stadium
 Imacustica in downtown(i think)
 Absolute Sound & Vision near to Pombal Square
 but save your time and enjoy the city
 A good lunch in the "Solar dos Presuntos" with a good typical "Vinho Verde"


----------



## rosgr63

Don't forget Cais do Sodrè


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> Don't forget Cais do Sodrè


 
 of course, but today cais do sodré is a little different, vecchio marpione!!!


----------



## rosgr63

I know, I know.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Thanks guys, I liked the cake too. I ate too much of it though.
> Just booked a holiday in Lisbon, Portugal for next month. Any good audio stores I should visit there?
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Just stay on this thread the people here are to ignorant to criticize you.
 I was told that my equipment wasn't good enough to be able to tell the sound of some cable I agreed.
 What is funny is that you guys buy this low quality crap from me.


----------



## rosgr63

I'd rather be ignorant and happy, than too clever and miserable.
  
 Remember KISS all the way.


----------



## 2359glenn

> Originally Posted by *rosgr63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I'd rather be ignorant and happy, than too clever and miserable.
> ...


 

 I know you are one of the suckers that bought some of my low quality stuff
 Maybe not I gave you the last one that don't count.
 KISS it sounds better with less parts simple sounds best but what do I know I hang out here
 with you silly people.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> Just stay on this thread the people here are to ignorant to criticize you.
> I was told that my equipment wasn't good enough to be able to tell the sound of some cable I agreed.
> What is funny is that you guys buy this low quality crap from me.





Ive been alot less active myself too.

I still somehow manage to receive at least 2-3 pms a day asking for advice/opinions/etc though.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> Just stay on this thread the people here are to ignorant to criticize you.
> I was told that my equipment wasn't good enough to be able to tell the sound of some cable I agreed.
> What is funny is that you guys buy this low quality crap from me.


 
 hahahahahaha, that's the funniest post i have read in a while.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Ive been alot less active myself too.
> 
> I still somehow manage to receive at least 2-3 pms a day asking for advice/opinions/etc though.


 
 you should start charging - 3 dollars for an opinion and 5 for advice. They would probably pay and all.


----------



## 2359glenn

Let me say how ignorant and stupid I am. I was selling 596 tubes for $15 each 3 years ago  before anyone knew what they were.
 Should have bought them all up at $10 each. I started the hole 596 thing and made nothing what a fool.
 Stavros still yells at me about this at times.


----------



## rosgr63

Yes that and more Glenn.
 Please don't start me up............


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Yes that and more Glenn.
> Please don't start me up............


 

 Go for it Stavros you should let me have it to get back for the rant I was on this morning E-Mail .
 And after venting today is going just fine except it is snowing and very cold.
 Should tell Lieven to just go on a rant to one of us.


----------



## rosgr63

Pleased all went well Glenn.
 Here it's raining a lot.
 I understand how Lieven feels and I hope he keeps posting here at least.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Pleased all went well Glenn.
> Here it's raining a lot.
> I understand how Lieven feels and I hope he keeps posting here at least.


 

 Head Fi is full of know it all a**holes and think they have the answer for everything
 hell I know nothing and I build amps. Learn something new every day.


----------



## dminches

What I have found about head-fi is that it is a very young crowd as compared to other audio sites and some of the youngsters tell to get overzealous in their comments and impressions of themselves.
  
 Lieven, just hang out in the places that you are comfortable, like here.  There is no need to completely unplug.


----------



## rnadell

Hey glenn,

I'm looking forward to paying you for your low quality junk!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

I have been into headphones for more than 45 years and I too Glenn learn something new every day.
  
 David is right, I couldn't agree more.


----------



## alota

2359glenn said:


> Head Fi is full of know it all a**holes and think they have the answer for everything
> hell I know nothing and I build amps. Learn something new every day.


 
 Behind a keyboard, we are all good.
 this is the human being, what can you do....


----------



## Neogeo333

Behind a keyboard and monitor everyone acts tuff.  Now meet them in person and they dont know crap and have there tail between their legs.  Kids today are too arrogant and ignorant.  I love this thread the most because I learn and have fun while doing it.  
  
 I hope Glenn keeps making pieces of junk for us dummies.


----------



## alota

neogeo333 said:


> Behind a keyboard and monitor everyone acts tuff.  Now meet them in person and they dont know crap and have there tail between their legs.  Kids today are too arrogant and ignorant.  I love this thread the most because I learn and have fun while doing it.
> 
> I hope Glenn keeps making pieces of junk for us dummies.


 
 i don´t have a Glenn amplifier(i hope to listen one soon)but i thank glenn for this funny and friendly thread.
 p.s.. i´m an ignorant, every day i learn something


----------



## daigo

neogeo333 said:


> Behind a keyboard and monitor everyone acts tuff.  Now meet them in person and they dont know crap and have there tail between their legs.  Kids today are too arrogant and ignorant.  I love this thread the most because I learn and have fun while doing it.
> 
> I hope Glenn keeps making pieces of junk for us dummies.


 
  
 I've only heard one of Glenn's amps myself (ClaytonSF's at a meet a few years back) and I starting following this thread because of it.  While I don't have plans to buy a Glenn amp in the near future, you guys provide plenty of good advice and entertainment for a lurker like me.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> What I have found about head-fi is that it is a very young crowd as compared to other audio sites and some of the youngsters tell to get overzealous in their comments and impressions of themselves.
> 
> Lieven, just hang out in the places that you are comfortable, like here.  There is no need to completely unplug.


 

 Maybe we should change the name to the geriatrics ward.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have to make an exception for this:
  
*HAPPY BIRTHDAY CLAYTON!!! *
  
 Have a superdooper day my good friend.
  
 And David & Glenn, you might be right. I could just stay in this thread but you know how tempting the other side is...


----------



## 2359glenn

rnadell said:


> Hey glenn,
> 
> I'm looking forward to paying you for your low quality junk!!!!!


 

 You are getting the lowest quality junk so far !!!
 Get another amp that will run a 5998 properly and also take the 6336 output tube.
 Most other amps will burn up at the thought of putting in a 6336.
  
 And it is mostly finished Yesterday I had to do yard work with the GF it was 70 deg and today it is snowing
 and supposed to go down to 3 deg tonight. So have to replace some of the heaters we removed yesturday
 in the well house and for the horses water.


----------



## Oskari

rnadell said:


> I'm looking forward to paying you for your low quality junk!!!!!


 
  


2359glenn said:


> You are getting the lowest quality junk so far !!!


 
  
 This is much better than any comedy on TV.


----------



## rosgr63

Happy Birthday Clayton!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Neogeo333

Glenn, would you test some more 300b for me?  Got these and were told they are NOS.


----------



## Neogeo333

Felicidades Clayton.


----------



## Clayton SF

neogeo333 said:


> Felicidades Clayton.


 
 Thanks!
  


ultrainferno said:


> I have to make an exception for this: *HAPPY BIRTHDAY CLAYTON!!! *
> Have a superdooper day my good friend.


 
 Ooooo Cake. I need cake!
  


daigo said:


> I've only heard one of Glenn's amps myself (ClaytonSF's at a meet a few years back) and I starting following this thread because of it.  While I don't have plans to buy a Glenn amp in the near future, you guys provide plenty of good advice and entertainment for a lurker like me.


 
 It was great meeting you at the meet, too!


----------



## alota

neogeo333 said:


> Felicidades Clayton.


 

 +1


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Ooooo Cake. I need cake!


 
 Happy Birthday Clayton...I am sure Ultra thought about saving you a piece of his yummy cake!


----------



## magiccabbage

happy birthday clayton!


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Thanks guys, I liked the cake too. I ate too much of it though.
> Just booked a holiday in Lisbon, Portugal for next month. Any good audio stores I should visit there?
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 'Cause he's a vanguard, always striving to take us to higher fidelity. Yeah, some of these head-fier's with their renegade rats mice and such...


----------



## Silent One

"Happy B/Day!" Clayton... I know you've got extra room in that apartment.


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Birthday Clayton !!!!!!!!!


----------



## daigo

silent one said:


> "Happy B/Day!" Clayton... I know you've got extra room in that apartment.


 
  
 The entire Veuve Cliquot family portrait!


----------



## GrindingThud

Happy BDay Clayton!


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Glenn, would you test some more 300b for me?  Got these and were told they are NOS.


 

 Yes now these look nice
 I would love to here what they sound like.


----------



## rnadell

I need some education about the differences in the 6as7, 5998 and the 6336. I have
 not used an amp that uses these tubes. thanks


----------



## dminches

Happy Birthday Clayton!!!


----------



## jc9394

Happy birthday Clayton..


----------



## 2359glenn

Even though The 5998 will work in a amp made for 6AS7s it can handle more power and sound better then a 6AS7
 But the bias resistor has to be changed to do this. The switch I added on the back of your amp does this.
 The 5998 can handle even more power but it's filament draws a brutal 5 amps of current. Most amps
 cannot handle the 10 amps two of these tubes will draw off the power transformer. But the transformer in
 this amp can handle this current.


----------



## jc9394

rnadell said:


> I need some education about the differences in the 6as7, 5998 and the 6336. I have
> not used an amp that uses these tubes. thanks




You get the OTL? Same as mines, I love the GZ34, CV1988, and GEC 6080 for the HD800. The 6336 are better for LCDs while both 6080 and 6AS7G are better for high impedance phones. I have not tried the 5998 yet because I'm loving the GEC 6080 (can have for $100-150/pair).


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Even though The 5998 will work in a amp made for 6AS7s it can handle more power and sound better then a 6AS7
> But the bias resistor has to be changed to do this. The switch I added on the back of your amp does this.
> The 5998 can handle even more power but it's filament draws a brutal 5 amps of current. Most amps
> cannot handle the 10 amps two of these tubes will draw off the power transformer. But the transformer in
> this amp can handle this current.




I don't have a switch on my amp but I tried the 7236 it works fine. Should I not use 7236/5998?


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> You get the OTL? Same as mines, I love the GZ34, CV1988, and GEC 6080 for the HD800. The 6336 are better for LCDs while both 6080 and 6AS7G are better for high impedance phones. I have not tried the 5998 yet because I'm loving the GEC 6080 (can have for $100-150/pair).


 

 It is the same but has a switch for the proper bias for the 5998


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> I don't have a switch on my amp but I tried the 7236 it works fine. Should I not use 7236/5998?


 

 It is fine to use it it will not be optimized it's bias current will be lower then it would be with the switch.
 so it won't sound as good as it could but last longer.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> It is fine to use it it will not be optimized it's bias current will be lower then it would be with the switch.
> so it won't sound as good as it could but last longer.




That is ok, I love the 6080. Anyone need a Sylvania 7236?


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> That is ok, I love the 6080. Anyone need a Sylvania 7236?


 

 I don't like how the 7236 sounds in that amp.


----------



## longbowbbs

Happy Birthday Clayton! I had to post that on page 596 of this forum!


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks to all for your birthday wishes.
 Now I got cake and yes I do have room for Veuve Clicquot--family portrait.
  
 There was a box in front of my apartment when I got home from work.
 Thanks to whoever was responsible for this sweet concoction.
 I hope that it was meant for me! 
  
 I've never heard of a rosemary cake.


----------



## GrindingThud

Is that a teeny weeny pear?


----------



## rnadell

2359glenn said:


> Even though The 5998 will work in a amp made for 6AS7s it can handle more power and sound better then a 6AS7
> But the bias resistor has to be changed to do this. The switch I added on the back of your amp does this.
> The 5998 can handle even more power but it's filament draws a brutal 5 amps of current. Most amps
> cannot handle the 10 amps two of these tubes will draw off the power transformer. But the transformer in
> this amp can handle this current.


 
  
  


jc9394 said:


> You get the OTL? Same as mines, I love the GZ34, CV1988, and GEC 6080 for the HD800. The 6336 are better for LCDs while both 6080 and 6AS7G are better for high impedance phones. I have not tried the 5998 yet because I'm loving the GEC 6080 (can have for $100-150/pair).


 
 Thanks for the info, looking forward to a first hand experience. Do you know if the amp will handle the he500's?


----------



## Clayton SF

grindingthud said:


> Is that a teeny weeny pear?


 

 I think it is a teen weeny marzipan pear. I haven't tasted it yet but that's what I suspect it is.


----------



## GrindingThud

My food horizon just expanded.


----------



## rosgr63

Nice cake Clayton!
 You can get some glazed pears too, they taste great.
  
 You can chop glazed fruit and put it inside the cake before you bake it.


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> Happy Birthday Clayton! I had to post that on page 596 of this forum!


 






 Yup, _The Mighty 596 page..._


----------



## Silent One

daigo said:


> The entire Veuve Cliquot family portrait!


 
  
 Next time he carefully crops his photographs...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 we'll know what sitting just out of view.


----------



## jc9394

rnadell said:


> Thanks for the info, looking forward to a first hand experience. Do you know if the amp will handle the he500's?




When DG have my amp, she said it work fine but during that time I was so busy that I do not have time to ship her the 6336 to test with LCD-3 and HE6. Both David and Glenn said the 6336 will be better with low impedance phones.


----------



## rnadell

Thanks, mine is coming with the 6336. I will also be using the T1's 
 so I will have to purchase a pair of 6sn7's. Thanks


----------



## jc9394

You just need a single 6sn7. Try yo find a good pair of 6080.


----------



## jc9394

I like this 6sn7 that does not cost you an arm and leg.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-1952-NOS-SYLVANIA-JAN-CHS-6SN7WGT-Military-Audio-Vacuum-tubes-Original-box-/231171729701?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35d2e8a925


----------



## rnadell

I meant to say 6as7's. Old age is creeping up on me.


----------



## rnadell

jc9394 said:


> I like this 6sn7 that does not cost you an arm and leg.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-1952-NOS-SYLVANIA-JAN-CHS-6SN7WGT-Military-Audio-Vacuum-tubes-Original-box-/231171729701?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35d2e8a925


 
 Do you have experience with the seller?


----------



## jc9394

rnadell said:


> Do you have experience with the seller?


 
  
 Nope, just did a google search and found this.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnadell said:


> I meant to say 6as7's. Old age is creeping up on me.


 

 I am sending you the amp with a 3DG4 rectifier  a 6SN7 driver and two 6AS7 output tubes.
 If you are going to buy tubes buy  5998s or 6336 if you have low impedance headphones.


----------



## 2359glenn

Or get the 6080s that JC is talking about


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> I am sending you the amp with a 3DG4 rectifier  a 6SN7 driver and two 6AS7 output tubes.
> If you are going to buy tubes buy * 5998s or 6336* if you have low impedance headphones.


 
  
 Shameless plug, my photography hobby is sucking my toy budget dry.  I have both if you wants to get them, will sell at the price I paid.  Need to fill up the tea tin to PM Glenn for another amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Well I've been picked to serve as juror on a civil case in San Francisco so I'll be at the courthouse until Friday. That's all I can say about the case. I hope they have some good pastries in that area. Lunch break is 1.5 hours so maybe I can find a good wiener cart.


----------



## jc9394

Tell us about it after you are done...


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> Well I've been picked to serve as juror on a civil case in San Francisco so I'll be at the courthouse until Friday. That's all I can say about the case. I hope they have some good pastries in that area. Lunch break is 1.5 hours so maybe I can find a good wiener cart.


 
 Mrs. Plum, in the Library with a Knife.....


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> I hope they have some good pastries in that area.


 
 Clayton..I assume you are at the courthouse near City hall...this is the best food in that area: http://frenchsoulfood.com/
 Good Luck!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Clayton..I assume you are at the courthouse near City hall...this is the best food in that area: http://frenchsoulfood.com/
> Good Luck!


 

 OMg! I Passed there on the way home and stopped to look at the menu. It was the best place I had come across walking home through the Tenderloin. Your post has solidified an arrangement for a taste there with a friend on Thursday night. A belated dinner engagement. He's moved into the digs above Whole Foods on Market and Dolores.


----------



## Silent One

Shoot! I might have to come up and investigate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I usually do the Oakland-Berkeley swath but...


----------



## wotts

I read this and just think "I'm in the wrong area."
  
  
 If any one has a lead for an ASQ certified CMM operator with years of blueprint and GD & T experience, let me know.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> That's all I can say about the case. I hope they have some good pastries in that area.


 
  
 Like this one I did for Xmas?
  

  
 Alright alright, I'll stop posting my deserts now


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Like this one I did for Xmas?
> 
> 
> Alright alright, I'll stop posting my deserts now


 
  
 Members of the Jury. I present evidence to support the fact that Ultra is the best-est host in all of Europe (and in my book, the World as well). He can bake, grill and also put you in solitary confinement with implements of torture, i.e., incredible headphones, and headphone amps that he owns that I will eventually want.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Members of the Jury. I present evidence to support the fact that Ultra is the best-est host in all of Europe (and in my book, the World as well). He can bake, grill and also put you in solitary confinement with implements of torture, i.e., incredible headphones, and headphone amps that he owns that I will eventually want.


 
 But Clayton...you ate ALL the evidence! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 All that remains are your sugary fingerprints all over Ultra's headphones and amps!!
 Must get fresh evidence...


----------



## Clayton SF

While waiting to be seated in the jury box, I spotted an image of the Virgin Mary on a courtroom floor tile.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> While waiting to be seated in the jury box, I spotted an image of the Virgin Mary on a courtroom floor tile.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
  
 Clayton,
 This is what I suggest:
 1. Show the image to the judge.
 2. Ask him how seeing the Virgin Mary should influence your deliberation.
 3. Stop at Brenda's for lunch on the way home...you should get excused from duty!


----------



## Clayton SF

_*San Francisco Public Utilities Commission Headquarters*_
 On my lunch break I happened upon this building.
  

  
  
 Dismissed from Jury Duty today I photographed Brenda's on the way home. I am eating there tomorrow evening.


----------



## rnadell

Hey Glenn, what is the difference between the 5998 and the 6336?
 Just purchased some 5998's, 6336's are available so I am curious. 
 thanks


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Dismissed from Jury Duty today I photographed Brenda's on the way home. I am eating there tomorrow evening.


 
  
 I'm certain 'Aquarium of the Bay' (Pier 39) is a fine place to see swimming creatures. BUT Brenda has Jumbo Shrimp swimming, too!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I'm certain 'Aquarium of the Bay' (Pier 39) is a fine place to see swimming creatures. BUT Brenda has Jumbo Shrimp swimming, too! :tongue_smile:




Where is Brenda? I need to add it to my SF list.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Where is Brenda? I need to add it to my SF list.


 





 It's in _The City That knows How_ (San Francisco) but I've not tested the joint... yet. I'm both Creole and curious, so watch out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Clayton SF will be our iReporter on the ground tomorrow night.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> It's in _The City That knows How_ (San Francisco) but I've not tested the joint... yet. I'm both Creole and curious, so watch out! :wink_face:
> 
> Clayton SF will be our iReporter on the ground tomorrow night.




Send me the addy, I will test the joint for you...


----------



## GrindingThud

Hug a tree for me.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Where is Brenda? I need to add it to my SF list.


 
  
*BRENDA'S*
  
652 Polk St @ Eddy
 San Francisco, CA 94102
brendas@frenchsoulfood.com
 415.345.8100​  
  
Breakfast
Lunch
In Between
Dinner


----------



## Neogeo333

rnadell said:


> Hey Glenn, what is the difference between the 5998 and the 6336?
> Just purchased some 5998's, 6336's are available so I am curious.
> thanks



If I remember correctly the 5998 is a 6as7 on steroid. A 6336A/B, get either 6336a or 6336b, 6336 are bad, are basically two 6as7 in parallel. 6as7 is 6.3v and 2.5a while a 6336 is 6.3v and 5a. Hope im right.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnadell said:


> Hey Glenn, what is the difference between the 5998 and the 6336?
> Just purchased some 5998's, 6336's are available so I am curious.
> thanks


 
  
  


neogeo333 said:


> If I remember correctly the 5998 is a 6as7 on steroid. A 6336A/B, get either 6336a or 6336b, 6336 are bad, are basically two 6as7 in parallel. 6as7 is 6.3v and 2.5a while a 6336 is 6.3v and 5a. Hope im right.


 

 Richard George is correct the 5998 may sound better for high impedance phones. If you have a lower impedance phone get some 6336s for the 
 drive power.


----------



## wotts

If were to use a 6336 in my OTL, Then I would need to be in the 5998 position then?


----------



## 2359glenn

wotts said:


> If were to use a 6336 in my OTL, Then I would need to be in the 5998 position then?


 

 It will still work it would be better with the switch but it will still work and drive lower impedance phones better.


----------



## wotts

2359glenn said:


> It will still work it would be better with the switch but it will still work and drive lower impedance phones better.


 
  
 I have wanted to try my W3000ANV on the OTL. I'll take a look at a set of the 6336 tubes to try. I think I have the 3DG4/6F8G/5998 combo running now. I have to look when I get home.


----------



## 2359glenn

wotts said:


> I have wanted to try my W3000ANV on the OTL. I'll take a look at a set of the 6336 tubes to try. I think I have the 3DG4/6F8G/5998 combo running now. I have to look when I get home.


 

 What is the impedance of the W3000ANV  ???


----------



## wotts

I think it is 32ohm or 40ohm.


----------



## 2359glenn

wotts said:


> I think it is 32ohm or 40ohm.


 

 That might be to low for the 5998.
 What are you using to drive these phones now ???


----------



## jc9394

wotts said:


> I think it is 32ohm or 40ohm.




Try 6080 or 6AS7G, I do not like 6336 driving AD2000.


----------



## wotts

2359glenn said:


> That might be to low for the 5998.
> What are you using to drive these phones now ???


 
  
 Usually the SX-1980 with the -20db muting enabled. I sold my one push-pull amp (MP-301 Mk2), but that was before I owned the cans.
  


jc9394 said:


> Try 6080 or 6AS7G, I do not like 6336 driving AD2000.


 
  
 I have a few 6AS7 around. I'll try those and look for some 6080 to try.


----------



## dminches

wotts said:


> I have wanted to try my W3000ANV on the OTL. I'll take a look at a set of the 6336 tubes to try. I think I have the 3DG4/6F8G/5998 combo running now. I have to look when I get home.


 
  
 I found the W3000ANVs to be noisy with the OTL.  They are not a good match.


----------



## wotts

They were noisy on the Valhalla too.


----------



## Skylab

The W3000ANV are both low impedance and high sensitivity. Definitely not an ideal pairing for an OTL tube amp.


----------



## Silent One

After moving 3.75 miles NE to another residence, even the 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk_ decided to move from its prior position inside the rack. Now front and center. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
  
 Regarding my current audio adventure using ZERO Autoformers,_ it's over._ I yanked 'em this evening and moved them over to the Tea room to await return shipping. The ZEROs are ideal for my 6 Ohm KEF Coda 9's but less than ideal for the 50 Ohm power hungry, inefficient and demanding HiFiMAN HE-6. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 
  
  
 I really like what Glenn did for Clayton SF - made custom pigtails with integrated resistors.... a really clean fabrication!


----------



## 2359glenn

What you need is a 300B amp with 40 ohm output like David's Selah


----------



## wotts

2359glenn said:


> What you need is a 300B amp with 40 ohm output like David's Selah


 
  
 I have that on my wish list as well.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'd like to build the other amp we talked about first though.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> What you need is a 300B amp with 40 ohm output like David's Selah


 
 You and I will finally come together on a build second half of 2014. And naturally, will be female in name.


----------



## alota

silent one said:


> After moving 3.75 miles NE to another residence, even the 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk_ decided to move from its prior position inside the rack. Now front and center.


 
 i want this rack!!!


----------



## Silent One

It's for sale... components are extra.


----------



## alota

silent one said:


> It's for sale... components are extra.


 

 really smart


----------



## Silent One

alota said:


> really smart


 





 Hey, we're operating on s shoe-string budget over here...


----------



## alota

silent one said:


> Hey, we're operating on s shoe-string budget over here...


 
 i know, i know.
 also by us


----------



## slim.a

Hi everyone,
  
 I received Glenn's OTL amplifier a few weeks ago (see picture below) and I have been enjoying it very much... so much that I didn't have time to write much lately 
  

  
 I posted some preliminary impressions on my blog (tweak-fi), but here is a copy of what I wrote using the ALO recabled Beyer T1s :
  
"_Power tubes :_
_- With the two RCA 6AS7s, the sound is reminiscent of a bigger more complete LD MKIII - it is very appealing, and simple to like_
_- With the six RCA 6BL7s, the sound was very different : much more refined, more extended in the frequency extremes, more delicate ... but it took me some time to "get it"_
 
_Driver tubes (6SN7) :_
_- The sound with the stock 6SN7 RCA Glenn provided with the amp was neutral and dead quiet (no noticeable noise floor with my Beyer T1s)_
_- The sound with Sylvania 6SN7W was very nice : more refined, richer and warmer than the "stock" RCA. However, the noise floor is higher than the stock one, though once the music is playing, it goes slightly unnoticed_
_- The sound with the VT231 6SN7 Sylvania was fantastic : great timber, great soundstage and excellent resolution but there is a annoying buzzing on the right channel --> I hope it can disappear with burn-in_
 
_Rectifier :_
_- I personally didn't like much the sound of the 3DG4 tube (Westinghouse and Zenith). The sound was very "strong"/powerful but at the expense of the soundstage layering and spaciounsness_
_- The 5AW4 RCA worked better, especially in the soundstage department_
 
_I wrote those impressions after listening for only a few hours. I will post some more detailed impressions/review later on._
_But the more I have listened to this amp, the more I came to appreciate what Glenn has done. It is a dynamic, fast, accurate and "rich sounding" amplifier. I was fearing that a tube amp might be too warm or not enough detailed, but the resolution of Glenn's amplifier is as good or better than anything I have had the pleasure to listen to._"
  
  
 Since then, I acquire the HD800s and they worked perfectly with the amplifier.
  
I am wondering about a few things though :
- Can one use six 6SN7s on the amplifier instead of six 6BL7s?
- Would the gain of 6SN7s be higher or lower than that of the 6BL7s (in the output stage)?
- Has anyone tried anything than the 3DG4/5AW4s as rectifiers for Glenn OTL amps?
- I looked around for "modern" 6SN7s to try - and I came across the Sophia ones. Did any one try that brand? Is it really low noise?
 
I will write a detailed review of Glenn's amplifier in the coming weeks as I get a better hold/understanding on the sound with both the Beyer T1s and HD800s. 
 
Happy tunes everyone!


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's the one I'll be getting too, slightly modified. Have you tried 6336 tubes?


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for sharing, slim.a, nice contribution and photograph. What is the function of the silver disc up front, a cover or dial perhaps?


----------



## Ultrainferno

It's a magic stone from Patrick82's Coconut audio
  
 http://www.coconut-audio.com/index.html


----------



## Silent One

I remember that guy!


----------



## jc9394

What you mean? my cable kickass...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Btw, I was asked to do a group buy for 6SJ7WGT RCA branded Tung Sol Meshplates. Let me know if anyone is interested, 9 more pairs available


----------



## slim.a

silent one said:


> Thanks for sharing, slim.a, nice contribution and photograph. What is the function of the silver disc up front, a cover or dial perhaps?


 
 The silver painted disc is a herbie's audiolab stabilizer - it is supposed to help tame vibration. I didn't do any A/B testing for sound quality but I have found it to be somewhat effective at reducing microphonics (?). When I put the amp on top of the marble tile, anything that would touch the rack or the marble tile would be heard through the headphones. I have been more a solid state kind of guy until now...
  
 I am probably going to get one of those 2 inches maple platform. My maple platforms are slightly smaller than Glenn's amplifier (as they were made for the smaller audio-gd dac19/c2 equipment) and the amp doesn't sit in a very stable manner on top of it.
  
 Anyway, the amplifier is fantastic sounding with all sorts of music. And as good as it sounded with the Beyer T1s, it sounds fantastic with the HD800s which I found not so good the last time I listened to them.


----------



## slim.a

ultrainferno said:


> It's a magic stone from Patrick82's Coconut audio
> 
> http://www.coconut-audio.com/index.html


 
  
  


silent one said:


> I remember that guy!


 
  
 My favorite quote from him : "_Everything in Audio is sublte and not worth it"_


----------



## jc9394

Ultra, do I need an adapter for Glenn's OTL amp?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I don't think Glenn's amps take a 6SJ7 tube John. I could be wrong


----------



## jc9394

Crap, no excuse to buy tubes...


----------



## Silent One

Feeling a _twang_ from addiction?


----------



## alota

slim.a said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I received Glenn's OTL amplifier a few weeks ago (see picture below) and I have been enjoying it very much... so much that I didn't have time to write much lately
> 
> ...


 
 Stunning amplifier!!!
  


ultrainferno said:


> It's a magic stone from Patrick82's Coconut audio
> 
> http://www.coconut-audio.com/index.html


 
 What is this? cables with food?
 i can´t believe


----------



## Ultrainferno

I guess you have to know Patrick82 to see the humor


----------



## rnadell

Glenn let me know today mine is ready for shipment. Really 
 looking forward to it. Thanks Glenn !!!


----------



## Silent One

rnadell said:


> Glenn let me know today mine is ready for shipment. Really
> looking forward to it. Thanks Glenn !!!


 
 Great! Let me me know if you need a courier. Will guarantee delivery by 31 March.


----------



## 2359glenn

slim.a said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I received Glenn's OTL amplifier a few weeks ago (see picture below) and I have been enjoying it very much... so much that I didn't have time to write much lately
> 
> ...


 
  
  
Thanks for the nice review
  
I think using 6SN7s as outputs is OK as long as you are using hi impedance
headphones like the HD800.
I don't really remember how they sounded in Stavros amp. Once he put in
The 6BL7s it sounded so good that he never put the 6SN7s back in.
Of corse his amp can use 8 of them and get lower impedance then yours
Also I think you can use lower cost 6SN7s for the output even Sovteck will work
The good sound comes from the driver.


----------



## rnadell

silent one said:


> Great! Let me me know if you need a courier. Will guarantee delivery by 31 March.


 

 No Insurance !!!!!


----------



## Silent One

rnadell said:


> No Insurance !!!!!


 
 OH... it'd be insured while in my possession... and arrive in 2 days... fully burned-in.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnadell said:


> No Insurance !!!!!


 

 You don't trust USPS.
 I am boxing up your amp as we speak using foam tubes as usual.
 I will use insurance I really don't trust them.


----------



## Silent One

I trusted them better when they were better staffed; less financial stress.


----------



## rnadell

Glenn, usps is fine, that thread was a response to Silent One, nothing more. 
 I ship exclusively by usps. thanks and please use the pobox


----------



## parbaked

Glenn, please remember to copy SO the tracking number for Richard's amp.
 We will want to keep an eye on it during transport...just in case...


----------



## Silent One

I'm simply offering _burn-in_ services... who's got time for that?


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> Glenn, please remember to copy SO the tracking number for Richard's amp.
> We will want to keep an eye on it during transport...just in case...


 

 You guys can't be trusted !!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Hopefully, it's not a West coast bias...


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Glenn, please remember to copy SO the tracking number for Richard's amp.
> We will want to keep an eye on it during transport...just in case...


 
 Speaking of tracking, I wonder how Clayton SF found the experience @ Brenda's the other evening...


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> I'm simply offering _burn-in_ services... who's got time for that?


 
 Devious....Er...I mean Brilliant...um.....Why, that is so kind of you SO! That is what neighbors are for.....


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> Devious....Er...I mean Brilliant...um.....Why, that is so kind of you SO! That is what neighbors are for.....


 





 I want fellow members to be able to count on me...


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Speaking of tracking, I wonder how Clayton SF found the experience @ Brenda's the other evening...


 
 He went elsewhere so we're going to have to lure you up for a meal at Brenda's.
 They only have one bubbly...rose...but it is French!
  
 edit: just noticed K-Mok is back...thanks...makes my night!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> He went elsewhere so we're going to have to lure you up for a meal at Brenda's.
> They only have one bubbly...rose...but it is French!
> 
> edit: just noticed K-Mok is back...thanks...makes my night!


 





 She's back by exclusive demand. I wonder if the Cabbie got in his ear _"Oh, you don't wanna go there... my cousin has a joint just up the street!"_


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> I wonder if the Cabbie got in his ear _"Oh, you don't wanna go there... my cousin has a joint just up the street!"_


 
 I think CSF was entertaining and concerned about Benda's no reservation policy so he went somewhere he knows...
 If we get you up here we'll go early...and stay late!


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> You guys can't be trusted !!!!!!!


 
 Hey...I resemble that remark...but those who know say SO can be 100% trusted...me thinks SO wants a 300B...or some serious monkey business for his HE-6...


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Hey...I resemble that remark...but those who know say SO can be 100% trusted...me thinks SO wants a 300B...or some serious monkey business for his HE-6...


 
 Considering I already named the Sansui G-22000 'Baby sinister'... Glenn's creation could inspire me anew! 
  
 I want something so big, bad and dirty (Class A) the California PUC will be looking for me!


----------



## rnadell

So what does it take to wake you guys up???? 
 Another Glenn AMP


----------



## Silent One

You getting to know us!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Amps, Cookies, Cake and Bubbly can do the trick. And women


----------



## Ultrainferno

ultrainferno said:


> Btw, I was asked to do a group buy for 6SJ7WGT RCA branded Tung Sol Meshplates. Let me know if anyone is interested, 9 more pairs available


 
  
 Last call, 2 more pairs available


----------



## daigo

ultrainferno said:


> Amps, Cookies, Cake and Bubbly can do the trick. And women


 
  
 And good beer.  That wakes me up real fast.


----------



## Neogeo333

Got this a few months back and its as addictive as Glenn's amp.


----------



## alota

neogeo333 said:


> Got this a few months back and its as addictive as Glenn's amp.


 

 ITALIA rules!!!


----------



## Neogeo333

The machine rules, but I only able to make a perfect espresso 1 out of 10 times. Its either tamp or temp. Got the grind pretty good. I guess practice make perfect.


----------



## Silent One

I want a high-end ice-cream maker.


----------



## parbaked

I want a computerized beer machine like in the UA Lounge at Narita:
  

  
 It tilts your glass for the pour then levels the glass for the finishing head...nice!


----------



## Neogeo333

Is it me or does Japanese beer taste bit sweeter than European or American beers?


----------



## rnadell

Ok guys, I've lost radar contact with my amp, which one of you is 
 responsible??? I have contacted the NSA to examine phone records,
 computer info and whatever else necessary. Fess up now,make it easy
 on yourself.


----------



## parbaked

The beer in Japan taste really good...crisp and clean...we're talking mass market lager.
  
 Most Japanese beer in the US is brewed under license in Canada and does not taste the same but still good.
 I'd still argue that the big US brewers Bud, Miller, Coors are sweeter than Asahi, Kirin, Sapporo.
  
 I do know Japanese girls are sweeter...but wifey is Japanese so I have to say that!


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> I want a computerized beer machine like in the UA Lounge at Narita:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I missed this already, the best tasting Japanese beer I ever have outside of Japan (airport).


----------



## jc9394

rnadell said:


> Ok guys, I've lost radar contact with my amp, which one of you is
> responsible??? I have contacted the NSA to examine phone records,
> computer info and whatever else necessary. Fess up now,make it easy
> on yourself.




Rumor said it took a different route...


----------



## Neogeo333

parbaked said:


> The beer in Japan taste really good...crisp and clean...we're talking mass market lager.
> 
> Most Japanese beer in the US is brewed under license in Canada and does not taste the same but still good.
> I'd still argue that the big US brewers Bud, Miller, Coors are sweeter than Asahi, Kirin, Sapporo.
> ...



Hahahhaha.


----------



## Neogeo333

rnadell said:


> Ok guys, I've lost radar contact with my amp, which one of you is
> responsible??? I have contacted the NSA to examine phone records,
> computer info and whatever else necessary. Fess up now,make it easy
> on yourself.




I managed to track it down. Hope you insured it.


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> Hahahhaha.


 
 That wasn't a joke...seriously I had to say it!!


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> I managed to track it down. Hope you insured it.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 That's not a new Glenn OTL...the big power transformer makes it flip all sideways...not pretty...Richard's amp is safe and on it's way to it's "pre-destination"..takes months for stuff to make it to Yosemite...


----------



## Neogeo333

parbaked said:


> That wasn't a joke...seriously I had to say it!!




I'm not far away, I say Chinese wifes are also sweet and loving. Just make sure never to get on her bad side. Slept too many times in car.


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> I'm not far away, I say Chinese wifes are also sweet and loving. Just make sure never to get on her bad side. Slept too many times in car.


 
 My Mom's Chinese...you're in trouble too...good luck...cheers!


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> I missed this already, the best tasting Japanese beer I ever have outside of Japan (airport).


 
 Free beer taste so good!!!


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> Free beer taste so good!!!




Not exactly free, I say it is part if the package. The JAL lounge can't compare.


----------



## Silent One

rnadell said:


> Ok guys, I've lost radar contact with my amp, which one of you is
> responsible??? I have contacted the NSA to examine phone records,
> computer info and whatever else necessary. Fess up now,make it easy
> on yourself.


 





 First things first - what's the best time of day for delivery... and I shall appear!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> I want a computerized beer machine like in the UA Lounge at Narita:
> 
> 
> 
> It tilts your glass for the pour then levels the glass for the finishing head...nice!


 
 Could be nice... for those who drink beer. Since I don't, I'm a holdout for La Parisienne personally and gently filling my flute with bubbly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _At any angle._


----------



## alota

neogeo333 said:


> The machine rules, but I only able to make a perfect espresso 1 out of 10 times. Its either tamp or temp. Got the grind pretty good. I guess practice make perfect.


 

 i know that is not easy.
 for me is the same.


----------



## Ultrainferno

fyi: group buy 6SJ7WGT over 
  
 Here a pair of bendix 6080wb that's ending soon. No bids yet. Price is more than ok
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/121286542293
  
 Problem with this pair is that one tube has steel rods (I think) and that tube's top structure is different. And they're from Italy. That's the reason I didn't buy it.


----------



## 2359glenn

The next amp to be shipped getting packed
  

  

  
 Will be shipped tomorrow


----------



## wotts

2359glenn said:


> The next amp to be shipped getting packed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Oooo..someone is going to be very happy!


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> The next amp to be shipped getting packed
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Glenn's Amp Box
> ...


 
  
 Very nice!
  


silent one said:


> Speaking of tracking, I wonder how Clayton SF found the experience @ Brenda's the other evening...


 
  
 SO: I ended up going to this place. It was really great. They serve only French wines and Champagne. The staff was speaking French. Bouche Pictures, and Bouche Bubbly and Wine Menu. It is only a couple of blocks down the street from where I live.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> SO: I ended up going to this place. It was really great. They serve only French wines and Champagne. The staff was speaking French. Bouche Pictures, and Bouche Bubbly and Wine Menu. It is only a couple of blocks down the street from where I live.


 
  
  
 Very nice Clayton, I want to be there now...


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> The next amp to be shipped getting packed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Very nice Glenn, I'm still loving mine.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > Speaking of tracking, I wonder how Clayton SF found the experience @ Brenda's the other evening...
> ...


 






 Never lost faith in you... and knew you had something incredible up your sleeve. Well played!
  


jc9394 said:


> Very nice Clayton, I want to be there now...


 
 +1


----------



## Silent One

@ Ultrainferno
  
 Your new avatar should make for a fantastic Friday!


----------



## Ultrainferno

The last 2 days I was away for work, we did nothing but drink beer and eat. I think I gained 3 kilos at least. Tomorrow, I'm not doing ****.


----------



## rnadell

Quote
  
 Thanks Glenn, and to all who make this forum so much fun and informative.
 With that I have a question, what rectifiers can be used with this amp?? thanks


2359glenn said:


> The next amp to be shipped getting packed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One




----------



## jc9394

Looks like 3DG4, 5U4 types...


----------



## jc9394

SO, Miss Mok is looking fine today...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> SO, Miss Mok is looking fine today...


 
 Yes... quite elegant, I might add. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  





 parbaked played a key role in her return.


----------



## GrindingThud

Looks comfortable! 




2359glenn said:


> The next amp to be shipped getting packed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Glenn is the first Candy Confectioner I've seen use these wonderful um.... what Dubstep Girl call 'em again, "Giant noodles?"


----------



## MJS242

silent one said:


> Glenn is the first Candy Confectioner I've seen use these wonderful um.... what Dubstep Girl call 'em again, "Giant noodles?" :tongue_smile:




I think old ladies use them to do pool gymnastics. Glenn makes far better use of them if you ask me.


----------



## Silent One

Yeah, I'm diggin' his audio delights found inside the box...


----------



## wotts

mjs242 said:


> I think old ladies use them to do pool gymnastics. Glenn makes far better use of them if you ask me.


 
  
  
 I have fought a battle or two in the pool with them as well. A water logged one is enough to really rattle your cage.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnadell said:


>


 

 Rectifiers
  
 3DG4 , 5AU4 , 5AW4 , 5U4GB , 5V3 , 5Z3 with adapter , 596 with adapter, GZ34 , GZ37 , WE422 , 5U8C with adapter , RK60 with adapter
  
 I recommend the 3DG4 , 5AU4 , 5AW4 ,GZ34 , GZ37 , WE422 , and the 5U8C


----------



## GrindingThud

Happy late PI day:


----------



## rnadell

2359glenn said:


> The next amp to be shipped getting packed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The day has come, and instead of the scheduled Monday delivery it is here today.
 These photos do not do justice to Glenn's attention to detail and the physical size
 of this amp. It is far better than what I expected. My initial experience of how it sounds
 compared to my csp2+ is it is far blacker, more dynamic and greater resolution.
 Pictures to follow along with more of my experience.
 The packing is a work of art, I hope I never have to repack it, it is a jigsaw puzzle and
 bullet proof.
 And lastly thank you Glenn, your efforts are thoroughly appreciated.


----------



## Silent One

rnadell...


----------



## longbowbbs

Congrats Richard!


----------



## wotts

Wooohooo!!!!!


----------



## rnadell

Well the enjoyment continues, effortless music. Here's a couple of photos and
 by the way how do I turn photos on this sight?


----------



## parbaked

rnadell said:


> Well the enjoyment continues, effortless music. Here's a couple of photos and
> by the way how do I turn photos on this sight?


 
 Stunning amp Richard and Glenn!
 Really pretty tubes too!
  
 I think you need to edit, rotate and save the picture on your PC before you import it to HF.
 Then you can edit your post and replace it with the rotated image.


----------



## jc9394

Congrats? How do you like the 5998?


----------



## rnadell

jc9394 said:


> Congrats? How do you like the 5998?


 

 Haven't gone there yet. Soon though.


----------



## Silent One

Hope it's ok that I righted the ship amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 
  
 WOWZA!


----------



## Ultrainferno

http://234mono.com/
  
 We all know that is a lie and that Glenn was first!!


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> http://234mono.com/
> 
> We all know that is a lie and that Glenn was first!!


 

 $15,900.00 What
  
 Hell I must be giving amps away
  
 If it sounds better then David,s Selah I will eat dirt.


----------



## snapple10

and that is without the upgrade tubes


----------



## jc9394

Anyone noticed that isn't activties with the Woo thread? As a former fanboy, I hated it when Jack hired someone who over sell and over protect Woo products.

I'm perfectly happy with a cheep amp for my HD800.


----------



## jc9394

Glenn I want a "鳴鳥" later this year.

鳴鳥 = songbird in Chinese


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> $15,900.00 What
> 
> Hell I must be giving amps away
> 
> If it sounds better then David,s Selah I will eat dirt.


 
  
 I have heard both.  Glenn, Selah is one of the great values in all of hifi.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> $15,900.00 What
> 
> Hell I must be giving amps away
> 
> If it sounds better then David,s Selah I will eat dirt.


 
 It costs lots of money to CNC such ugly casing....
 They describe the case as "_cursive_"...What x 2


----------



## daigo

2359glenn said:


> $15,900.00 What
> 
> Hell I must be giving amps away
> 
> If it sounds better then David,s Selah I will eat dirt.


 
 If you're giving away amps, I'll take two!


----------



## parbaked

rnadell said:


> My initial experience of how it sounds compared to my csp2+ is it is far blacker, more dynamic and greater resolution.
> Pictures to follow along with more of my experience.


 
 Hi Richard,
 I saw your Decware is for sale! That is a very pretty wood case BTW!
 It didn't take long for you to choose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 That is a real compliment to Glenn's work!!
  
 Great that you are so happy...congratulations...cheers!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/710354/decware-csp-2


----------



## john57

parbaked said:


> It costs lots of money to CNC such ugly casing....
> They describe the case as "_cursive_"...What x 2


 
 I have seen the amp two years ago at the RMAF Looks better in photos than in real life. I refuse to listen to it.
 Paying that much money for a cursive case is nuts. I like someone's amp design that looks like a copper espresso machine if I was going to pay that much for style.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Anyone noticed that isn't activties with the Woo thread? As a former fanboy, I hated it when Jack hired someone who over sell and over protect Woo products.
> 
> I'm perfectly happy with a cheep amp for my HD800.





+1


----------



## Silent One

Dubstep Girl said:
			
		

> +1


 
 +2


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> http://234mono.com/
> 
> We all know that is a lie and that Glenn was first!!


 
 I initially considered the 234mono. _And nearly bought it_. musicman59 stepped in with just minutes to spare before ordering. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I sent him a text just before confirming my order with Jack.
  




  
  
  


jc9394 said:


> Glenn I want a "鳴鳥" later this year.
> 
> 鳴鳥 = songbird in Chinese


 




  
  


dminches said:


> I have heard both.  Glenn, Selah is one of the great values in all of hifi.


 





 Selah needs a sister... to be raised in SoCal, no less!
  
  
  


daigo said:


> If you're giving away amps, I'll take two!


 
 I'll take the spare bedroom at the studio. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  


parbaked said:


> Hi Richard,
> I saw your Decware is for sale! That is a very pretty wood case BTW!
> It didn't take long for you to choose
> 
> ...


 
  
 rnadell was so moved during the initial playback, he decided to repaint the entire listening room. Look at the paint sample card to the right!


----------



## rnadell

silent one said:


> I initially considered the 234mono. _And nearly bought it_. musicman59 stepped in with just minutes to spare before ordering.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I only painted for the better part of my life, now I get to do it for fun.


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *rnadell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I only painted for the better part of my life, now I get to do it for fun.


 
 Ecstatic for you! Thanks for letting us rib you a bit.


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> I initially considered the 234mono. _And nearly bought it_. musicman59 stepped in with just minutes to spare before ordering.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Jose is good at that. He's talked me out of a few things.


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > I initially considered the 234mono. _And nearly bought it_. musicman59 stepped in with just minutes to spare before ordering.
> ...


 
 Because the three of us share the same audio consultant and know each other's systems and tastes, I thought contacting him at the last dang minute was the right thing to do!


----------



## alota

Friday, i went to the  specialist.
 my hearing is good but i have tinnitus and for me is the end in the headphone world
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 a salute to this group of good people


----------



## Silent One

alota said:


> Friday, i went to the  specialist.
> my hearing is good but i have tinnitus and for me is the end in the headphone world
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Noooo... say it ain't so!
  





 Wishing you the best and hope you still contribute to some rebel rousing around here.


----------



## magiccabbage

alota said:


> Friday, i went to the  specialist.
> my hearing is good but i have tinnitus and for me is the end in the headphone world
> 
> 
> ...


 
 How did you get it?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I've had it for years and I'm only 36, but there are several degrees of course. Both my ears always go: tooooooooooooooooooooooot en teeeeeeeeeeeeeeet


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just got hold of 2 extra NOS 596 tubes. I'm thinking of putting them up for sale


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> I've had it for years and I'm only 36, but there are several degrees of course. Both my ears always go: tooooooooooooooooooooooot en teeeeeeeeeeeeeeet


 






 Ooh just reading that makes my ears hurt. I've been fortunate in the few bouts I've had in my life can be counted on one hand and all lasting a few days or less.
  


ultrainferno said:


> I just got hold of 2 extra NOS 596 tubes. I'm thinking of putting them up for sale


 
 Now how did some shiny examples of _The Mighty 596_ just up and fall in your lap?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Found them in Germany from a tube builder who had them to make an amp but didn't get to it. Only 2 tubes, no stash unfortunately and they didn't come cheap either.
 Now... ebay or Headfi FS. I won't be keeping them anyway


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> Found them in Germany from a tube builder who had them to make an amp but didn't get to it. Only 2 tubes, no stash unfortunately and they didn't come cheap either.
> Now... ebay or Headfi FS. I won't be keeping them anyway


 
 it will help you fund a new project - good times.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I should really get all the latest things on my wish list to glenn and stavros for my GRSUPER08+


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Found them in Germany from a tube builder who had them to make an amp but didn't get to it. Only 2 tubes, no stash unfortunately and they didn't come cheap either.
> Now... ebay or Headfi FS. I won't be keeping them anyway


 
 If only I had a gig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd be the customer on this score. Someday maybe I place 12 in the China cabinet.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > Found them in Germany from a tube builder who had them to make an amp but didn't get to it. Only 2 tubes, no stash unfortunately and they didn't come cheap either.
> ...


 
 They are becoming like china to be passed down to the next generation....


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> They are becoming like china to be passed down to the next generation....


 
 I'll place 'em next to the Champagne flutes.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > They are becoming like china to be passed down to the next generation....
> ...


 
 Don't get them mixed up!


----------



## wotts

longbowbbs said:


> Don't get them mixed up!


 
  
  
 Bubbly, with a hint of flashing and mercury...


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> Bubbly, with a hint of flashing and mercury...


 
 It can happen. Horseplay around the dining room with young nephews or cousins not seen in quite some time and then... the entire Mercedes row _gets knocked over._


----------



## Ultrainferno

Yesterday I had the best 9 year old Rottling wine ever to celebrate the homecoming of the 2 Mighty 596 tubes. I got bored of bubbly SO!!
 I'll be putting up the tubes on Headfi for a week or so, then they go to ebay


----------



## wotts

Oooooo!


----------



## alota

silent one said:


> Noooo... say it ain't so!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 thank you


magiccabbage said:


> How did you get it?


 
 really i don´t know but the specialist say me that with 43 years, it´s better not to risk


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Yesterday I had the best 9 year old Rottling wine ever to celebrate the homecoming of the 2 Mighty 596 tubes. I got bored of bubbly SO!!
> I'll be putting up the tubes on Headfi for a week or so, then they go to ebay


 
 Well, if I had Reims and Epernay in my backyard, then...


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Well, if I had Reims and Epernay in my backyard, then...


 
 SO, if you desire something closer to your backyard, I highly recommend this sparkling from Sonoma.
 http://www.kachinavineyards.com/ourwines_sparkling.html
 It has become our house wine for celebrations!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Well, if I had Reims and Epernay in my backyard, then...


 
  
  


parbaked said:


> SO, if you desire something closer to your backyard, I highly recommend this sparkling from Sonoma.
> http://www.kachinavineyards.com/ourwines_sparkling.html
> It has become our house wine for celebrations!


 
  
  
 Ever tried this?  I brought a case before xmas and they are now gone...
  
 http://www.roedererestate.com/wines.php?Wine=1852


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> Ever tried this?  I brought a case before xmas and they are now gone...
> 
> http://www.roedererestate.com/wines.php?Wine=1852


 
 Yes...the L'Ermitage is a great wine, we have also finished our last bottle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 That would be my other recommendation for sure!!
  
 Roederer is close to the cabin we stay in Anderson Valley. It is a beautiful winery to visit and the very generous tasting is free if you buy a bottle!


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> Yes...the L'Ermitage is a great wine, we have also finished our last bottle
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 How it compare to Kachina?  It is very bad living in Mass, most of the winery will not ship to here.


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> How it compare to Kachina?  It is very bad living in Mass, most of the winery will not ship to here.


 
 I recommend Kachina. Greg and Nancy are fine winemakers and touch every bottle.
 It is really a small two person operation.
 Greg's port is very good too!
 They made less than 50 cases of sparkling wine, so it is precious vs. 6,000 cases of L'Ermitage...also they price like Glenn = as if to friends....
 If they ship to MA, I'd sign up for the club. If they don't ship to MA, and you want some bubbly, PM me and I'll make it happen.


----------



## jc9394

Brut Sparkling WineSOLD OUT


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> Brut Sparkling WineSOLD OUT






  
 Drag...the Brut page shows stock, but the it is SOLD OUT in the shop.
 I just sent Greg an email to see if they have any stashed away.
 If yes, I will buy and we can share....
 I'm due to go up soon and check on their goats and new port...


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Well, if I had Reims and Epernay in my backyard, then...


 
 are your audio gears ok after the earth quake?


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> are your audio gears ok after the earth quake?


 
 I had just went to bed an hour before it struck. Woke up briefly and returned to dreaming about cycling. My "Greenies" are safe and celebrating St. Patrick's Day! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 "Happy St. Patrick's Day" to you and may you enjoy some brew and magic cabbage!


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> I had just went to bed an hour before it struck. Woke up briefly and returned to dreaming about cycling. My "Greenies" are safe and celebrating St. Patrick's Day!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 thanks same to you. My name is actually paddy as well believe it or not 
  
 Here is a nice Irish tune for the occasion, nice female vocal 
  
https://soundcloud.com/sivemusic/the-rocky-road-to-dublin


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > Well, if I had Reims and Epernay in my backyard, then...
> ...


 
 Oh I'm fine, was simply funnin' with him and that glorious patch of earth over there. He knows I wanna play in it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've not tried the Cali version of Roederer only the French. Use to do Cali versions of Mumm, Piper-Heidsieck ect to stretch my dollar. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, I always find a way to include French bubbles throughout the year. When I take French foam baths (Au Lait), French bubbles coordinate nicely with my efforts soaking in the tub.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Oh I'm fine, was simply funnin' with him and that glorious patch of earth over there. He knows I wanna play in it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 SO, man with taste.  I love French bubbles too but Cali version definitely fits better when you throw a party.  I can't image opening 8 bottles of French when I throw a xmas party...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> SO, man with taste.  I love French bubbles too but Cali version definitely fits better when you throw a party.  I can't image opening 8 bottles of French when I throw a xmas party...


 
 I know what you mean, economizing is important. Especially since one's taste buds quickly acclimate during the first glass with the first three sips. Guests will be hard pressed to discern first tier and secondary wines as they progress... might as well save.


----------



## Ultrainferno

jc9394 said:


> SO, man with taste.  I love French bubbles too but Cali version definitely fits better when you throw a party.  I can't image opening 8 bottles of French when I throw a xmas party...


 
  
 I can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 SO you should come over here, it's not even a 2 hour drive to Epernay.


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> I can
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm satisfied with both vintage iron and new inside the studio. But I wanna come see The Iron Lady.


----------



## jc9394

After a week of crazy different time zones all day meetings, today I finally able to spend some QT with the OTL it is so relaxing and reminds me how much I missed it last week. Along with some French cognac, hine triomphe, Jacky Cheung's half century concert is just like I remembered in Vegas.


----------



## rnadell

Been a couple of days with the OTL, WOW !!!!! this is enjoyment. 
 It seems to rise to every occasion. I am in the process of aquiring
 tubes, thanks JC. 
 I started the headphone journey in August of 2013 and what a whirlwind
 ride it has been. Been to RMAF and a couple of events in San Francisco,
 this amp really is a standout. I listened to the Stratus, and while it is a 
 wonderful amp, easy to listen to even under adverse conditions I can't see
 spending 3x $$$$$. Glenn , thanks 
 Still looking for a gz34 or a we422a. 
 Back to the music


----------



## Ultrainferno

This is my song of the week: Anna Ternheim - Terrible
 Thank you Clayton for recommending her albums to me, I keep getting goose bumps all over when I listen to her
  
 
  
 This on the 300b Glenn Integrated with the HE-500 is incredible!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> This is my song of the week: Anna Ternheim - Terrible
> Thank you Clayton for recommending her albums to me, I keep getting goose bumps all over when I listen to her
> 
> 
> ...




  
 You're welcome. And thank you for keeping that spare bedroom available for me to rest my weary bones after that long haul to visit you and your listening room.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Will you be staying in your room this year my friend?


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Will you be staying in your room this year my friend?


 

 50/50 yes/no. I've been saving for a trip this year just in case it becomes 51/49. Start chillin' the beer & wine!


----------



## Silent One

I just found out U.S. Postal is doing a Jimi Hendrix "Forever" Stamp!


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> I just found out U.S. Postal is doing a Jimi Hendrix "Forever" Stamp!


 
 Wow! Scuse me while I kiss the sky...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Commemorative stamps are fun!


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> Wow! Scuse me while I kiss the sky...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes they are. I should do a sheet of 2359glenn|studio stamps. Two years ago I was going to do a sheet of my Woo but got sidetracked. Maybe this time use the logo Seamaster designed...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rnadell said:


> Been a couple of days with the OTL, WOW !!!!! this is enjoyment.
> It seems to rise to every occasion. I am in the process of aquiring
> tubes, thanks JC.
> I started the headphone journey in August of 2013 and what a whirlwind
> ...


 
  
 or a cossor gz37


----------



## Silent One

Tuesday, I acquired my first SA-CD Player. And in the last "48" I've been scouring the Net like a Louisiana Bloodhound.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So far, I've selected one title and it sounds great! Donald Fagen "The Nightly." Just WOW WOW WOW . . . ! ! ! Sticker shock has become the norm during my searches. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now that I actually have a SACD Player, I'm more likely to find discs among friends and members who may no longer be interested as they once were; moved on, so to speak. "Re-issues" should help reign in the price as well. Will shop a little bit each day in hopes of finding a small obscure (hidden?) site or source. 
  
 I'm not sure who's in charge! (Record label, Jackson Family/Trust/Estate) But it's mind boggling that "Thriller" isn't re-issued on SA-CD... "Thriller" is about the biggest selling album on the planet! Either Mariah or Madonna may have finally outsold (barely) Michael on the best selling album front, so maybe now "Thriller" might be a very close second - #1 in my eyes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Wait... the top three album sellers ALL having first names beginning with the letter "M." 





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Freaky deaky!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Welcome to the SACD club...I have been a fan for a long time. Some of the prices can be astonishing for original issue discs from the90's....I had some stolen a couple of years ago and the replacements were $200+ each! It is fun to spin the vinyl, then play the SACD and notice the differences.


----------



## Silent One

I think I'll be spinning both discs & vinyl in the same session since I have so few of each. Then music server with other sessions. Should be a nice balance. 
  





 And while I've got you, got any seldom played discs you might wanna sell to some cat in SoCal? Perhaps, one or two discs (Jazz-Blues-World)...


----------



## longbowbbs

I would love to, but I have nothing in those Genre's left....I lost many of my best in the car break in and I have not replaced them all yet. I and them with me to go and listen to some new gear at my dealer's when the break in happened....Bad time that....


----------



## Silent One

Oh man, sorry to hear about that. That you were out expanding your audio horizons makes it worse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Have you any small obscure sources for purchase or just the usual suspects in Amazon, ebay, CDJapan, Acoustice Sounds ect?


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Tuesday, I acquired my first SA-CD Player. And in the last "48" I've been scouring the Net like a Louisiana Bloodhound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 maybe give RUMAY408  a bell - he has acquired some really nice high res SACD for 2 channel as well as the norm. He might be able to point you in the right direction. I cant remember if he was actually buying the cd's or getting them from HD tracks as downloads


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Tuesday, I acquired my first SA-CD Player. And in the last "48" I've been scouring the Net like a Louisiana Bloodhound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Welcome to the dark side...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 once you go SACD there is no going back.  The only issue I have is me being lazy to change disk when it is done and I love jumping tracks back and forth.  
  
 Check out local CL, I used to scored good amount of my SACD and vinyl collections it.


----------



## GrindingThud

I've recently discovered most albums (used loosely) have many many versions coming from several different masters. 
http://pinkfloydarchives.com/DUSCDPF.htm
http://www.discogs.com/Duran-Duran-Duran-Duran/master/79018

Now I'm chasing ancient CD pressings from Japan and West Germany....my wallet thought tubes were bad....
The mastering on the original/early releases far surpasses the new post loudness war stuff being shoveled around now. I noticed this after hearing some recently remastered Duran Duran and thinking What, am I that old I don't remember what the songs sounded like. Nope, the new masters just blow. I was also disappointed in Moody Blues MFSL CDs that had pops in the edits (Forever Afternoon big pop at 16s).... Evidently many of the best masters found their way onto SA-CD and DVD-A. I've gotta get me a SACD machine now and find a way to rip these into my collection. 




silent one said:


> Tuesday, I acquired my first SA-CD Player. And in the last "48" I've been scouring the Net like a Louisiana Bloodhound.:tongue_smile: So far, I've selected one title and it sounds great! Donald Fagen "The Nightly." Just WOW WOW WOW . . . ! ! ! Sticker shock has become the norm during my searches.
> 
> Now that I actually have a SACD Player, I'm more likely to find discs among friends and members who may no longer be interested as they once were; moved on, so to speak. "Re-issues" should help reign in the price as well. Will shop a little bit each day in hopes of finding a small obscure (hidden?) site or source.
> 
> ...


----------



## Oskari

grindingthud said:


> The mastering on the original/early releases far surpasses the new post loudness war stuff being shoveled around now.


 
  
 Ain't that the sad truth.


----------



## Clayton SF

SACD -- Oh, my. I've never heard an SACD nor do I know what they are. Are they better sounding than vinyl? I shouldn't even go down this path.


----------



## Anavel0

SACD is/was super audio CD. It's "Betamax" was HD-DVD. NEither really panned out.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> maybe give RUMAY408  a bell - *he has acquired some really nice high res SACD for 2 channel as well as the norm*. He might be able to point you in the right direction. I cant remember if he was actually buying the cd's or getting them from HD tracks as downloads


 
 Thanks for stepping-in, magiccabbage! I cross paths with RUMAY408 some 5 days a week... who knew?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


jc9394 said:


> Welcome to the dark side...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 With me getting up and down like Jack-n-the-box changing 45RPM LPs, changing discs will seem like a walk in the park... with Haagen_Dazs! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


grindingthud said:


> I've recently discovered most albums (used loosely) have many many versions coming from several different masters.
> http://pinkfloydarchives.com/DUSCDPF.htm
> http://www.discogs.com/Duran-Duran-Duran-Duran/master/79018
> 
> ...


 
 No doubt! Will be in hot pursuit as well!
  


clayton sf said:


> SACD -- Oh, my. I've never heard an SACD nor do I know what they are. Are they better sounding than vinyl? I shouldn't even go down this path.


 
 Like running water, comparisons will vary. But when I fed the Analog Outputs into the Tube Pre-Amp, which in turn fed the Tube monaural amps, I'll risk sounding like a broken record (pun intended) and repeat... "WOW WOW WOW ! ! !" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And YES, I highly recommend you go down the rabbit hole. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With the most compact and brilliantly illuminated flashlight you can find.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> Oh man, sorry to hear about that. That you were out expanding your audio horizons makes it worse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I wish I knew something that was not already findable via Google...I probably pick up a new disc every couple months or so via acoustic sounds....


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> SACD -- Oh, my. I've never heard an SACD nor do I know what they are. Are they better sounding than vinyl? I shouldn't even go down this path.


 
 It is the same reality as Vinyl or Hi rez files...Mastering is all. I have a few SACD's that are wonderful and a few that are not really much better than the CD. Most, fortunately, are clearly better. I am spending less time picking apart phrases and nuances and just enjoying the music regardless of what format I am enjoying that day. 
  
 I just picked up the 180gram version of Kansas' Point of Know Return....To quote Bill E. Preston, Esq. , speaking to Socrates..(Pronounced So Crates...) All we are, is dust in the wind, Dude....


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey, y'all seen this? http://www.bluenote.com/vinylreissues.html
It looks exciting!


----------



## Silent One

A great great celebration... I'm up for it!


----------



## Clayton SF

Me too. Five LPs a month is a great deal.


----------



## magiccabbage

Ah now we are taking! 
  
 Eh i got this album today its excellent! Any of ye heard it. I reckon you would like it silent.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Hey, y'all seen this? http://www.bluenote.com/vinylreissues.html
> It looks exciting!


 
 To add: I view my SACD Player as a complimentary piece not a replacement for vinyl or hi-rez, as the latter two can/does sound great! You'll be just fine not investing in a dead format, and instead spinning some good clean vinyl like
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you do. I've a few Double 45 RPM LPs that sound downright delicious! 
  
 It usually seems like the few titles I want in any given month, is usually available in one of the three formats but not all three. It becomes a pick my poison kinda thing. The Sony now affords me more flexibility.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> Ah now we are taking!
> 
> Eh i got this album today its excellent! Any of ye heard it. I reckon you would like it silent.


 
 Looks mean! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I best hop to it and look for it... rather, the money for it.


----------



## Silent One

Blue Note 75th
  
 I think for the first round - 25 MARS 2014 - my April budget may only allow for three albums. Most likely:
  
 - Wayne Shorter
 - John Coltrane
 - Larry Young


----------



## magiccabbage

is your cd player anything like this¬ 
  

  
 I heard it at a meet recently. It sounded glorious - they called it "the battleship" which was well suited, it looked like it could survive nuclear fallout!


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> is your cd player anything like this¬
> 
> 
> 
> I heard it at a meet recently. It sounded glorious - they called it "the battleship" which was well suited, it looked like it could survive nuclear fallout!


 





 You no jokin', baby! Mine looks like this:


----------



## Ultrainferno

I still use a '91 good old CDP
  

  
 Does the job


----------



## Ultrainferno

Don't they look beautiful


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> You no jokin', baby! Mine looks like this:




Yo brother, when did you steal my DVD player?


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> Don't they look beautiful




Lovely, you selling that? Love the boxes, may consider selling my pair and buy yours if you are selling it.


----------



## jc9394

Pepe’s is coming to Boston...


----------



## Ultrainferno

jc9394 said:


> Lovely, you selling that? Love the boxes, may consider selling my pair and buy yours if you are selling it.


 
  
 It is for sale on the FS board John. PM me if you're interested


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Don't they look beautiful


 
 Mmm... so comforting to look at. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


jc9394 said:


> Yo brother, when did you steal my DVD player?


 
 Spinnin' the same model, yeah? Wait 'til I tell Ma... guess what?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


jc9394 said:


> Lovely, you selling that? Love the boxes, may consider selling my pair and buy yours if you are selling it.


 
 Identical looking to my NOS recs right down to the box; printing on box.... lovely is right!
  
  


jc9394 said:


> Pepe’s is coming to Boston...


 
 I was just about to have breakfast when...


----------



## jc9394

Boys and girls, I need help on my tubes combo for "鳴鳥".
  
 Option 1: TV damper diodes, C3g, and 300B
 Option 2: 5U4, C3g, and 300B


----------



## Silent One

Option 1. And let Glenn work his wonder.


----------



## Ultrainferno

SO. I an celibrating today



Bottle of medal winning pink bubbly!


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> SO. I an celibrating today
> 
> 
> 
> Bottle of medal winning pink bubbly!


 





 Well, you did say you had an award winning week at work, so... congrats!


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> SO. I an celibrating today
> 
> 
> 
> Bottle of medal winning pink bubbly!


 
  
 Very nice, makes me want open a bottle too but nothing as good as yours in my wine fridge.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Option 1. And let Glenn work his wonder.


 
  
 That is what I'm leaning too.  I need to ask Glenn about GP stepped attenuate and speaker out (if possible) too.


----------



## dminches

clayton sf said:


> Hey, y'all seen this? http://www.bluenote.com/vinylreissues.html
> It looks exciting!


 
  
 If you want the "real" blue note reissues buy the Music Matters Jazz versions.  They had a 45 rpm set and now they are on to 33 rpm.  The Don Was versions are not for audiophiles and are likely from digital masters.  I would stay away unless you really want it on vinyl and have no way to play the digital version.


----------



## dminches

SACD is not a dead format.  There are still many new releases.  Skylab can chime in on this.
  
 I have been ripping all my SACDs to hard drives.  It is a tad time consuming because it involves the use of a PS3 with older firmware for starters followed by some computer work.  But, I end up with DSD files and hi res flacs.
  
 If anyone would like me to do this for them all you have to do is ask (and them them to me with a hard drive).


----------



## kazsud

dminches said:


> SACD is not a dead format.  There are still many new releases.  Skylab can chime in on this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


My co-worker rips them from the ps3 as well. He has quite the collection. I've only gotten a few iso from him mainly a few yes albums.


----------



## Silent One

dminches said:


> SACD is not a dead format.  There are still many new releases.  Skylab can chime in on this.
> 
> I have been ripping all my SACDs to hard drives.  It is a tad time consuming because it involves the use of a PS3 with older firmware for starters followed by some computer work.  But, I end up with DSD files and hi res flacs.
> 
> If anyone would like me to do this for them all you have to do is ask (and them them to me with a hard drive).


 






 Many? Say like, Life Support type numbers? My PS3 didn't make the 3.60 firmware cut. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks for extending your kindness. I am currently DSD-DACless. Will tap Skylab for some sources. Maybe you have a lone disc or two that you're NEVER EVER gonna wanna play again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And maybe I take the burden from you.


----------



## Silent One

Good preparation for delicate teas take time. I was about to comment on a post while making perfect tea and it vanished in to cyberspace. No, not the tea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Is it crazy to get up at 6AM when I have the house to myself, to listen to amps and tube roll the whole day? I'm turning in to SO, except, he does it at night.


----------



## Silent One

Um... we go _Overnight_ 'til sunrise.


----------



## Ultrainferno

It's too early for bubbly, right? better stick to coffee.


----------



## Silent One

Not too early if you touch it up some with Orange Juice or Hibiscus... breakfast, right?


----------



## Ultrainferno

thanks for helping me find an excuse


----------



## Silent One

It's Friday night in Cali but I'm skipping the bubbly tonight in case I have to see that my company returns home safely if fatigue creeps up. With March Madness looming in the morning, gonna be a short night. Bring me some college hoops!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Glenn,
  
 did you ever get that 339 amp someone sent you?
 What did you think of its sound and how it was constructed? Did you upgrade it?
  
 I sent you a PM for my new amp.


----------



## longbowbbs

Welcome to the Tube amp enabler's club!


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> Welcome to the Tube amp enabler's club!


 
 haha


----------



## Ultrainferno

Must be my english but I don't get it


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> Must be my english but I don't get it


 
 An enabler is someone who assists with another's addiction.....I think we all qualify for that label....


----------



## Ultrainferno

How to make a perfectly fine looking Woo Amp look bad
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/29655#post_10394565
  
 At least in my opinion. Someone should tell him


----------



## Blackmore

I wouldn't even bother, Woo, who? Ignorance is an bless, imo.


----------



## Neogeo333

I can see he uses Grado phones.  But the red tone is too much.   Maybe a darker wood tone similar to his Grado would be a better match?  I guess if he likes it thats all that counts.  For me the Woo chassis is too small for wood ascent.


----------



## parbaked

Seriously guys, Joseph is legally blind. I'm not kidding. I know him from the Grado threads.
 This may account for his liking the garish embellishment, so we should cut him some slack.
 After all...it's just a Woo...


----------



## rnadell

I can't believe this forum has been anointed judge and jury,
 back to what really matters, I am still looking for a Rectifier
 for my new otl.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnadell said:


> I can't believe this forum has been anointed judge and jury,
> back to what really matters, I am still looking for a Rectifier
> for my new otl.


 

 Did you try the 5AW4 I gave you with the amp?


----------



## jc9394

Glenn, how you compare gz32, gz34, and gz37?


----------



## rnadell

2359glenn said:


> Did you try the 5AW4 I gave you with the amp?


 
 I am using the 5aw4 with success. I just would like to find a GZ34 or a WE 422a.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> Glenn, how you compare gz32, gz34, and gz37?


 

 I prefer the GZ37 I don't think the GZ32 can handle the current.
*Ultrainferno* had the GZ32 blow up in a 300B amp powering two 300Bs
 It blew the fuse in the amp when this happened and destroyed the GZ32.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnadell said:


> I am using the 5aw4 with success. I just would like to find a GZ34 or a WE 422a.


 

 I would think these tubes will sound closer to the 3DG4.
 And even though the WE422 will work it really needs an adapter that reverses pins 2 & 8 for this tube to be it's best.
 A GZ34 will be allot cheaper then a WE422.


----------



## rnadell

Hey guys, I just received notice that I have been given a reputation by someone.
 What is that about??


----------



## longbowbbs

rnadell said:


> Hey guys, I just received notice that I have been given a reputation by someone.
> What is that about??


 
 They clicked on the Thumbs up button on your post.....


----------



## rnadell

longbowbbs said:


> They clicked on the Thumbs up button on your post.....


 

 Thanks


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> How to make a perfectly fine looking Woo Amp look bad
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/29655#post_10394565
> At least in my opinion. Someone should tell him


 
  
 I don't want to tell him and I agree with you...
  
 I figure that if you can openly reflect on the sound of a rectifier so can you the look of an amp. No judge. No jury. Just opinions shared amongst like-minded or unlike-minded members.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

4 2 2 A ! ! !


----------



## Silent One

Is it cheep?


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> I prefer the GZ37 I don't think the GZ32 can handle the current.
> *Ultrainferno* had the GZ32 blow up in a 300B amp powering two 300Bs
> It blew the fuse in the amp when this happened and destroyed the GZ32.


 
  
 Glenn, that was a 5Z4G with the bullet hole plates. And I managed to do that twice
 5Z4G is a GZ30 I think
  


rnadell said:


> I can't believe this forum has been anointed judge and jury,
> back to what really matters, I am still looking for a Rectifier
> for my new otl.


 
  
 Not judging. To each his own but doesn't freedom of speech allow me to say that looks rather ugly to me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


clayton sf said:


> I don't want to tell him and I agree with you...
> 
> I figure that if you can openly reflect on the sound of a rectifier so can you the look of an amp. No judge. No jury. Just opinions shared amongst like-minded or unlike-minded members.


 
  
 We're too smart for this world C


----------



## jc9394

DG, did you tried the GZ32 with the OTL?


----------



## Ultrainferno

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111304337137
  
 $99 Mighty 596 if anyone needs a single one (this is not mine)


----------



## jc9394

let's jack up the price...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> DG, did you tried the GZ32 with the OTL?


 
  
  
 yeah, it didnt blow up.
  
 it sounded very good too... one of favorites with OTL
 i did not use very long though


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> yeah, it didnt blow up.
> 
> it sounded very good too... one of favorites with OTL
> i did not use very long though


 
  
  
 Thanks, I will give it a try over the weekend.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> yeah, it didnt blow up.
> 
> it sounded very good too... one of favorites with OTL
> i did not use very long though


 
  
  


jc9394 said:


> Thanks, I will give it a try over the weekend.


 
  
 I was wrong it was a GZ30 that blew up only good for 125ma
 A GZ32 is good for 300ma at 300volts maybe not good for two 300Bs only good for 150ma at 500volts


----------



## Silent One

I remember my summer being hot in Chi-town but... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/10676917/chicago-white-sox-offer-3-pound-sundae-helmet


----------



## Neogeo333

For that amount of ice cream and a helmet its cheap.  Kinda need it here the heat is unbearable now.  Low 90s.


----------



## jc9394

but the ice cream is not to SO's standard.  12 scoops of Häagen-Dazs will empty my tea tin.


----------



## Silent One

My ice-cream needs to be sweet, creamy, dense, high butter fat and little to no air.


----------



## Neogeo333

Last two times I had ice cream in a public place some damn birds took it from me from behind.  If you been to Disney World you probably know what im talking about.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Blackmore

Sirmione Italy is the place for ice freak
  
https://www.google.nl/search?q=sirmione+gelateria&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=EUYzU_2tJsa_ygOL34HwDQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&biw=1280&bih=548
  
 Have fun.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> I was wrong it was a GZ30 that blew up only good for 125ma
> A GZ32 is good for 300ma at 300volts maybe not good for two 300Bs only good for 150ma at 500volts





Excellent!!!


Then i give the gz32 my highest recommendation!


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm a-lazing 'round like a *****cat tonight. Just a-listening to music.


----------



## Silent One

I'm guessing you have "Auto shut-off..."


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> I'm a-lazing 'round like a *****cat tonight. Just a-listening to music.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 You should have stopped by Clayton.
 We were just hanging out listening to tunes too!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> You should have stopped by Clayton.
> We were just hanging out listening to tunes too!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Head-Fi 1964


 
  
 Yes. I should have but I didn't want Wilma to think I was moving in. I think she was just beginning to like me.
 OH! And thanks for the marvelous dinner you made and the drinks, drinks, drinks. We did end up on Treasure Island you know. 
 See you this evening. I'm taking the J Church... I think.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> See you this evening. I'm taking the J Church... I think.


 
 Nice!
 If you're early, our local vinyl shop is near the J-Church stop: http://www.thrillhouserecords.com/
 You can expand your Punk collection!
 See ya!


----------



## jc9394

I have been in SF at least two dozen times last 5/6 years but never make it to Treasure Island, I think I need plan that next time in SF...


----------



## rnadell

dubstep girl said:


> yeah, it didnt blow up.
> 
> it sounded very good too... one of favorites with OTL
> i did not use very long though


 

 Which gz32 do you suggest?


----------



## Neogeo333

UK or Holland.  I prefer UK.  Mullard are good.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Cv593


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> I have been in SF at least two dozen times last 5/6 years but never make it to Treasure Island, I think I need plan that next time in SF...


 
 Not really...I've lived in SF for 20 years and i've never been to Treasure Island.
 Poor Clayton was abducted by a drunken Brit in a leather t-shirt...we're lucky he made it home!


----------



## jc9394

I want to go to TI is to take pictures of SF skyline at night, I heard it is the best view of SF.


----------



## daigo

jc9394 said:


> I want to go to TI is to take pictures of SF skyline at night, I heard it is the best view of SF.


 
  
 Based on my friends' pictures, this is true.  Though I still haven't been to Treasure Island in my 33 years of living in SF, other than driving through while commuting.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Cv593


 
  
 With the OTL, which one you rated the best?  GZ32, GZ34, or GZ37?


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> I want to go to TI is to take pictures of SF skyline at night, I heard it is the best view of SF.


 
  
 This I didn't know until we made a U turn on TI and then, BAM! I saw the lights of SF and the Bay Bridge. It was fantastic in all of my distorted visual glory.
  
 
  
 Bay Bridge Light Show


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> With the OTL, which one you rated the best?  GZ32, GZ34, or GZ37?




Neither they sound way different.

Gz34 = dynamic and liquid, with a minty coolness to it. Metal base of course, black base is good but slightly more aggressive.

Gz37 = full bass and tube warmth, yet never bloaty slow or congested. The cossor is better than skinny gz37

Gz32 = tubey but airy and well balanced with euphonic warmth and rich tone, very gec like in sound (cv593), the regular gz32 is more mediocre.


----------



## jc9394

Thanks, I think I will have a lot of QT with the cv593 this weekend.


----------



## Silent One

Island hopping
  
 It must be a backyard thang - living in LA for several years and been to TI & YBI more times than the Navy... but never Catalina Island 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 go figure!


----------



## Clayton SF

I met parbaked in the Mission and we parked ourselves up to a bar with a bartender named Rachelle. She makes wicked drinks and we had 2 of them each while hearing her tell us that only lets DJs that own vinyl spin in her bar. Unless, of course, they happen to be really good friends. She loves T.Rex and loves that initial sound the needle makes when placed on a record to play. That clunck (the-needle-hits-the-vinyl-and-finds-the-groove sound).
  
 We thought of and then toasted Stavros--cheers!
  
 Then we went and had killer pizzas and a big pitcher of cold beer. Ultra, where are you? We also talked about amp, vinyl, and amps, and speakers, and Shindos...
  
 Can't wait till the next time...


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> I met parbaked in the Mission and we parked ourselves up to a bar with a bartender named Rachelle. She makes wicked drinks and we had 2 of them each while hearing her tell us that only lets DJs that own vinyl spin in her bar. Unless, of course, they happen to be really good friends. She loves T.Rex and loves that initial sound the needle makes when placed on a record to play. That clunck (the-needle-hits-the-vinyl-and-finds-the-groove sound).
> 
> We thought of and then toasted Stavros--cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Sounds fun, wish I was there.  I'm ready for my trip to SF/TI...just pulled the trigger on this baby.  Of course more sushi and sake, definitely will PM Clayton and parbaked, maybe even a trip to vineyard.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Sounds fun, wish I was there.  I'm ready for my trip to SF/TI...just pulled the trigger on this baby.  Of course more sushi and sake, definitely will PM Clayton and parbaked, maybe even a trip to vineyard.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Glass Beautiful.


 
  
 TI has wine tasting galore!
 We can head there too.
 Arrrh!
  
 http://www.mercurynews.com/libations/ci_24902721/treasure-island-wine-trail-where-sip-and-swirl
 http://www.weekendsherpa.com/stories/treasure-island-wine-tasting/
 http://www.tiwines.net/


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> TI has wine tasting galore!
> We can head there too.
> Arrrh!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I can live there...


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> I met parbaked in the Mission and we parked ourselves up to a bar with a bartender named Rachelle.
> 
> We thought of and then toasted Stavros--cheers!
> 
> Then we went and had killer pizzas and a big pitcher of cold beer.


 
 Great night out!
  
 Rachelle's place is El Amigo, a tequila centric bar on Mission - excellent cocktails - highly recommended!
 PizzaHacker does make superb pizza!
  
 Stavros said it best: We went for Margarita followed by a Margherita! 
  
 Clayton enjoyed more than one Shady Lady, a drink Rachelle invented...I can't remember what I drank but it had tequila, fresh grapefruit and St Germain... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> Great night out!
> 
> Rachelle's place is El Amigo, a tequila centric bar on Mission - excellent cocktails - highly recommended!
> PizzaHacker does make superb pizza!
> ...


 
  
 That usually tells you that you have a great time.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> That usually tells you that you have a great time.


 
  
 This was our bartender last night.
  
*Name: *Rachel
*Bar:* El Amigo
*Hood:* Mission
  
 She pronounces her name Ra-SHELL.
  
 "My signature drink is called a _Shady Lady_, a bright and refreshing cava-based cocktail. It's a shot of blanco tequila chilled with a bit of Cointreau, topped off with cava, and served up with an orange peel zest. It's simple and fresh, so it goes down smooth but will definitely have you feeling it after just one."
  
 http://www.refinery29.com/47018#slide-10


----------



## jc9394

Going to Expedia now to find a cheap tix to SF...


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> I met parbaked in the Mission and we parked ourselves up to a bar with a bartender named Rachelle. She makes wicked drinks and we had 2 of them each while hearing her tell us that only lets DJs that own vinyl spin in her bar. Unless, of course, they happen to be really good friends. She loves T.Rex and loves that initial sound the needle makes when placed on a record to play. That clunck (the-needle-hits-the-vinyl-and-finds-the-groove sound).
> 
> We thought of and then toasted Stavros--cheers!
> 
> ...


 
_Lovely._ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jc9394 said:


> Sounds fun, wish I was there.  I'm ready for my trip to SF/TI...just pulled the trigger on this baby.  Of course more sushi and sake, definitely will PM Clayton and parbaked, maybe even a trip to vineyard.


 
 Fantastic! Except now when you overhear people talking about "Glass" (Tubes? Lenses?? Drinks?!) your ears are going to raise up more than the ears of a hound dog on a country porch! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  


parbaked said:


> Great night out!
> 
> Rachelle's place is El Amigo, a tequila centric bar on Mission - excellent cocktails - highly recommended!
> PizzaHacker does make superb pizza!
> ...


 
 Great to hear about you two gathering for a toast of the Bay! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You'll soon be conversing with someone about something totally unrelated and the name of that drink will come slamming into your memory mid-sentence! Prompting you to seek another... with or without the person you're speaking to.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jc9394 said:


> Going to Expedia now to find a cheap tix to SF...


----------



## jc9394

SO, I will give you plenty of notice and totally expected you at SF sipping bubbles with us.


----------



## Silent One

I'm up for it. Hopefully I'll have a gig by then so I can spend some touristy dollars.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi y'all. My current State of Station...
 Today's setup is Decware/GlennAmp Mono Blocks.
 Nice sound. Very clean and not colored at all (compared to my Leben CS600).
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/529140/show-us-your-head-fi-station-at-its-current-state-no-old-pictures-please/17700#post_10410439


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Hi y'all. My current State of Station...
> Today's setup is Decware/GlennAmp Mono Blocks.
> Nice sound. Very clean and not colored at all (compared to my Leben CS600).
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/529140/show-us-your-head-fi-station-at-its-current-state-no-old-pictures-please/17700#post_10410439


 

 Not push pull I think se sounds better.
 The push pull is making the coloring.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Not push pull I think se sounds better.
> The push pull is making the coloring.


 
  
 Glenn, remember you modded the Decware so it has your signature sound too.  So pairing it with your mono blocks is perfect.
  
_Glenn's mod work on the Decware CSP2+ preamp . It has more presence than before Glenn did his magic._


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Not push pull I think se sounds better.
> ...


 
 I loved my CSP2+...I would love to hear the "Glenn Mod"!


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> I loved my CSP2+...I would love to hear the "Glenn Mod"!


 

 His mods are incredible. The CSP2+ drives the DT990 600Ω wonderfully.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Glenn, remember you modded the Decware so it has your signature sound too.  So pairing it with your mono blocks is perfect.
> 
> _Glenn's mod work on the Decware CSP2+ preamp . It has more presence than before Glenn did his magic._


 
_Very nice_


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Glenn, remember you modded the Decware so it has your signature sound too.  So pairing it with your mono blocks is perfect.
> 
> _Glenn's mod work on the Decware CSP2+ preamp . It has more presence than before Glenn did his magic._


 
  
 Those black things are paper in oil capacitors covered in heat shrink tubing
   that is were my amps get there sound from..
 There are all the new plastic capacitors and then there is NOS paper in oil.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Those black things are paper in oil capacitors covered in heat shrink tubing
> that is were my amps get there sound from..
> There are all the new plastic capacitors and then there is NOS paper in oil.


 
  
 It is no wonder that the CSP2+ sounds incredible. People talk about the old Black Gate Caps but I think your paper-in-oil capacitors have a much more distinct impact. Like rolling down the windows on a warm summer day while driving on California's Pacific Coast Highway.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> Those black things are paper in oil capacitors covered in heat shrink tubing
> that is were my amps get there sound from..
> There are all the new plastic capacitors and then there is NOS paper in oil.


 
 The man loves to give away secrets. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Lets hope no one steels your ideas 
  
  
 When i start building my speaker rig this will be my first port of call.


----------



## Neogeo333

Anyone knows if its ok to test a 300b on a tester as a 2a3 with 5V?  Got a Jackson 658A and find out it doesnt have settings for the 300b but has for 2a3, 50, 45 and other UX socket.


----------



## magiccabbage

neogeo333 said:


> Anyone knows if its ok to test a 300b on a tester as a 2a3 with 5V?  Got a Jackson 658A and find out it doesnt have settings for the 300b but has for 2a3, 50, 45 and other UX socket.


 
 Maybe glenn is your man to ask? Or Skylab?
  
 Sorry this is the glenn thread -my bad.


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Anyone knows if its ok to test a 300b on a tester as a 2a3 with 5V?  Got a Jackson 658A and find out it doesnt have settings for the 300b but has for 2a3, 50, 45 and other UX socket.


 

 If anything test it as a 50 just make sure the heater voltage is at 5 not 7.5


----------



## Neogeo333

Got it.  Thanks Glenn and MC.


----------



## Silent One

Showdown Saturday Night!
  
 With the listening room seeing the slow and steady departure of gears lately, and in the absence of the HiFiMAN HE-6, I decided to bring the venerable Senn HD280 Pro's out of storage. And give them a run on the 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk. _Last night I ran the 280s out of the iPod un-amped and for the first time became curious how it would stack up against the HD650 out of the OTL.
  
 So, in the interest of Saturday night fights - a showdown between "Senns!" using the OTL amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> Showdown Saturday Night!
> 
> With the listening room seeing the slow and steady departure of gears lately, and in the absence of the HiFiMAN HE-6, I decided to bring the venerable Senn HD280 Pro's out of storage. And give them a run on the 2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk. _Last night I ran the 280s out of the iPod un-amped and for the first time became curious how it would stack up against the HD650 out of the OTL.
> 
> So, in the interest of Saturday night fights - a showdown between "Senns!" using the OTL amp.


 

 What tubes are you using in the amp for this showdown?


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> What tubes are you using in the amp for this showdown?


 






 Great question, as it didn't hit me just yet. I finally have found all my tubes for the OTL. Likely, a combo that I'm very familiar with. Before dawn this morning I cheated and went in for a sneak preview. Tube complement was the TS-5998s in the power slot, Brimar 13D-1 in the drive position, anchored by the BIG Russian on rec duty. Because these were the last selections I listened to.
  
 What I discovered - _and quickly_ - is that I'm going to need an additional week of listening a bit each night before coming to any conclusions. The reason is I'm so use to hearing the "Clear as a bell" mids from the HiFiMAN HE-6 that my brain needs to re-acclimate to the sound of both Senns. What I heard from both cans was brutal! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It wasn't always like this, just now entering the post HE-6 period. 
  
 The 5998s will stay in, and will try both the Syl 3DG4 and _The Mighty 596_, as well as the Ken Rad 1633, Brimar 13D-1, TS-BGRP and one of the FIVREs. Of course, I'm always open to suggestions. My own suggestion would be to see that 'Selah' gets a couple of sisters later this year... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Twins!


----------



## Clayton SF

Last week was PizzaHacker time when
 parbaked and I went out for drinks and pizza.
 The first photo is from our first meeting.
 People say that we look like brothers. We certainly dress alike with no prior notice. Scary!
  
 Last night was PizzaHacker time again!
 It was also El Amigo time.
 Some of the same drinks--some not so same.
 One same pizza. One not so same. Same large pitcher of beer!
 Rachel our bartender played my Tyrannosaurus Rex and Edgar Winter LPs.
 Fun.
  
 Happy Friday!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looks good C!

I am having a coffee in a coffeebar in Lisboa. Mmm coffee


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Looks good C!
> I am having a coffee in a coffeebar in Lisboa. Mmm coffee


 

 Mmm Lisboa!


----------



## Silent One

Incredible coverage Clayton SF; parbaked!


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Last week was PizzaHacker time when
> parbaked and I went out for drinks and pizza.
> The first photo is from our first meeting.
> People say that we look like brothers. We certainly dress alike with no prior notice. Scary!
> ...


 

 You guys are bad boys I wish I was there with you
 I would be drinking Tequila   Corralejo is my favorate


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> You guys are bad boys I wish I was there with you
> I would be drinking Tequila   Corralejo is my favorate


 
  
 Boy were we bad. Very very bad. We were going to pay the pizza bill then realized we had already paid it... so we forgot what happened 10 minutes before and 5 minutes after (huh)? I had watched parbaked maneuver himself down the sidewalk as I tried to negotiate the general public at large (which most of the time is not a pretty sight--me included). I ended up on Powell Street and then took a cable car 4 blocks up the hill which cost me $6 one way. We will swear off drinking at Rachel's bar and all other types of restaurant dining until I return from Hawaii on April 15 ...or thereabouts.
  
 We'll save you a seat at the bar.


----------



## Silent One

I frequently do Southern Deep-Fried Fish or West African fare most Fridays. But these pix got me upside down! Maybe pizza tonight?


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> I frequently do Southern Deep-Fried Fish or West African fare most Fridays. But these pix got me upside down! Maybe pizza tonight?


 

 I just had Pizza it is 3 hours earlier here.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> I just had Pizza it is 3 hours earlier here.


 
 Ooh pizza! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I figured it out - Deep-Fried Cat tonight; Pizza tomorrow for the Final Four (College Basketball)! And then audio to round out the night.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Boy were we bad. Very very bad. We were going to pay the pizza bill then realized we had already paid it... so we forgot what happened 10 minutes before and 5 minutes after (huh)? I had watched parbaked maneuver himself down the sidewalk as I tried to negotiate the general public at large (which most of the time is not a pretty sight--me included).


 
 I remember none of this!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


2359glenn said:


> You guys are bad boys I wish I was there with you
> I would be drinking Tequila   Corralejo is my favorate


 
 Glenn, we need a chaperone...so we don't pay twice...
 I think Rachel puts a little monkey business in her tequila drinks!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> I remember none of this!!


 





 Now your avatar makes more sense!


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Boy were we bad. Very very bad. We were going to pay the pizza bill then realized we had already paid it... so we forgot what happened 10 minutes before and 5 minutes after (huh)? I had watched parbaked maneuver himself down the sidewalk as I tried to negotiate the general public at large (which most of the time is not a pretty sight--me included). I ended up on Powell Street and then took a cable car 4 blocks up the hill which cost me $6 one way. We will swear off drinking at Rachel's bar and all other types of restaurant dining until I return from Hawaii on April 15 ...or thereabouts.
> 
> We'll save you a seat at the bar.


 
  
  


parbaked said:


> I remember none of this!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You want me to be a chaperone that ain't gonna work. I will be a bad Influence
 Will have to see after I come back from Athens whether I go to
 the Rockey Mountain Audio Fest Or go and hang out with you guys.
 I think hanging with you guys will be more fun.


----------



## Silent One

I say do RMAF and then we'll come out and hang with you. Think you'll go as a vendor or just to take it all in?


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> You want me to be a chaperone that ain't gonna work. I will be a bad Influence
> I think hanging with you guys will be more fun.


 
 Yes, that's the chaperone we want! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Clayton's place is THAF (Tendernob Hill Audio Fest)


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> I say do RMAF and then we'll come out and hang with you. Think you'll go as a vendor or just to take it all in?


 

 I couldn't go as a vender I don't have the money or extra equipment to show.


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> Yes, that's the chaperone we want!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Clayton has enough amps to have a audio fest at his house.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> I couldn't go as a vender I don't have the money or extra equipment to show.


 





 This is where we huddle as a group, find out in advance your intent and then set off to raise funds for you. 
  
 To the regulars here @ 2359glenn|studio, what say you?




  





 I may have to draw rosgr63 out of hiding with some cookies.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> parbaked said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, that's the chaperone we want!
> ...


 
 If Clayton were up for it and you came out, I could get audio coverage for the event.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> If Clayton were up for it and you came out, I could get audio coverage for the event.


 
 I would love to visit some of ye guys over there at some stage. I might plan a trip for next year to coincide with a meet. I just dunno whether to go east or west coast.


----------



## snapple10

East or west will , definitely, be depended on the time of the year 

So want attend LA/ NY meets myself , not sure why


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> I would love to visit some of ye guys over there at some stage. I might plan a trip for next year to coincide with a meet. I just dunno whether to go east or west coast.


 
 Because North America tends to have a lot of audio goodies for sale, would you be able to buy something and return home duty free?
  
  


snapple10 said:


> East or west will , definitely, be depended on the time of the year
> 
> So want attend LA/ NY meets myself , not sure why


 
 Because we're very warm and receptive of members from the outreaches.


----------



## Ultrainferno

This one is on you guys


----------



## Clayton SF

Once again: _*Spaghetti alla Puttanesca*_. Just saying...
  
 Happy Sunday!


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Once again: _*Spaghetti alla Puttanesca*_. Just saying...
> 
> Happy Sunday!


 
 Looks good Clayton...I like that thread too!


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> Looks good Clayton...I like that thread too!


 

 I just went over to that thread and now I am hungry getting to late to eat now


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Looks good Clayton...I like that thread too!


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Neither they sound way different.
> 
> Gz34 = dynamic and liquid, with a minty coolness to it. Metal base of course, black base is good but slightly more aggressive.
> 
> ...




You are right that I will love the GZ32, I'm looking for a spare now.


----------



## 2359glenn

Have another amp finished
 It is for Modca just changed it to 230 volt for Europe
 Plan on running it for another 24hrs then box it up tomorrow after work to ship to Italy.
  
 Here it is with 6AS7s

  
 With 6336s for outputs


----------



## jc9394

Congrats Modca, that is one sweet amp.  Still loving mines.


----------



## rnadell

jc9394 said:


> Congrats Modca, that is one sweet amp.  Still loving mines.


 

 +1, Modca you're going to love it. Enjoy!!!!


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Have another amp finished
 It is for Modca just changed it to 230 volt for Europe
 Plan on running it for another 24hrs then box it up tomorrow after work to ship to Italy.
  
  
 +2, good stuff!


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi all,
 I'm off to Hawaii to help with family matters.
 I've packed by bags with some goodies for mom, sis, and my lovely niece.
 I will be checking in periodically.
 I leave early tomorrow morning.
 I hope they serve a good breakfast on board.
 And cocktails, wink wink parbaked and Ultra.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Hi all,
> I'm off to Hawaii to help with family matters.
> I've packed by bags with some goodies for mom, sis, and my lovely niece.
> I will be checking in periodically.
> ...


 
 Travel safe Clayton...we have plans for you on return...


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Travel safe Clayton...we have plans for you on return...


 
  
 Thanks.
 Now I am very happy.


----------



## Silent One

sko0bydoo said:


> Have another amp finished
> It is for Modca just changed it to 230 volt for Europe
> Plan on running it for another 24hrs then box it up tomorrow after work to ship to Italy.
> 
> ...


 
 +3...congrats Modca!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Travel safe Clayton...we have plans for you on return...


 
 Be safe and cheers to helping your family like only you can!


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Have another amp finished
> It is for Modca just changed it to 230 volt for Europe
> Plan on running it for another 24hrs then box it up tomorrow after work to ship to Italy.
> 
> ...


 
 Viaggio sicuro my lovely amps...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Nice amp Glenn. How about making a minimum 250 posts rule in this thread before being able to buy a Glenn amp so we know where your magic is going? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Clayton, have a safe trip and it's OK if you accidentally get on a plain here in stead of going back to SF in a week.


----------



## Silent One

I would have came up w-a-y short before my first 2359glenn amp.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Unless you meant "total" not restricted to this thread.


----------



## modca

HI guys thank you to you all very much!! I am so excited to be able to get a Glenn amp and from the pictures it looks gorgeous
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 the amp will go to a town close to Venice where it will be loved end listened to for a very loooooong time!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 hope I will be able in the future to try different kind of tubes so to finally understand what I only can imagine right now.
  
 Anyway always silently reading your thread and you are always very nice.
  
 Great thanks to Glenn THE MASTER. His amps really show the love he puts in his work.
  
 Baci dall'Italia
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Marco


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Hi all,
> I'm off to Hawaii to help with family matters.
> I've packed by bags with some goodies for mom, sis, and my lovely niece.
> I will be checking in periodically.
> ...


 
  
 Have a safe trip Clayton.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Have a safe trip Clayton.


 
 Thanks. I am on my way to airport right now. Actually in about 10 minutes.
 Do they serve mai tais at 9:30 in the morning?
 My iPad is loaded with music (I know... low tech equip) and I'm ready to fly!


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Thanks. I am on my way to airport right now. Actually in about 10 minutes.
> Do they serve mai tais at 9:30 in the morning?
> My iPad is loaded with music (I know... low tech equip) and I'm ready to fly!


 
  
 It is 5pm somewhere.  Unfortunately it is no in SF airport.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Have a good Trip C! Inside airports the alcohol vs time doesn't count


----------



## Neogeo333

modca said:


> HI guys thank you to you all very much!! I am so excited to be able to get a Glenn amp and from the pictures it looks gorgeous
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congratulations Marco, your going to love your new amp.  And welcome to the club.
  
 George


----------



## modca

neogeo333 said:


> Congratulations Marco, your going to love your new amp.  And welcome to the club.
> 
> George




Thank you very much!! Hope it gets to Italy soon


----------



## Silent One

Let us know how many country travel stickers the box picks up along the way.


----------



## modca

Sure I will!! Hope not many so it gets here sooner


----------



## Silent One

Great point!


----------



## rnadell

jc9394 said:


> You are right that I will love the GZ32, I'm looking for a spare now.


 

 Just purchase one from Upscale audio and the price was 60+shipping.


----------



## jc9394

rnadell said:


> Just purchase one from Upscale audio and the price was 60+shipping.


 
  
 I have it on my shopping cart but never finished the order.


----------



## longbowbbs

Greetings all...Just wanted to pop in and say that life is really busy and my on line time is paying the price....Don't have too much fun while I am otherwise engaged....


----------



## jc9394

congrats


----------



## longbowbbs

Not that kind of engaged.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 28th anniversary coming up in a couple of weeks actually!  Just stupid busy......


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> congrats


 
 Well, to longbowbbs' 28th!


----------



## Silent One

My latest vinyl purchase:
  




  
 180 Gram Audiophile Virgin Vinyl LP 45 RPM - 2 LPs 
  
 Ordered last night but to save dough I chose the _Super Saver_ shipping option. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 modca is likely to see his new amp before I see my new wax. But I'm very excited, as my newly hardwired HE-6 should return next 7 days...


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> My latest vinyl purchase:


 
  
 I just pre-ordered my first since I really got into audio. It won't ship until June though.
  

  
 I better get a turntable now.


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I just pre-ordered my first since I really got into audio. It won't ship until June though.
> 
> 
> 
> I better get a turntable now.


 
 I know what you're sayin'. I'm bringing Bill Evans in as my replacement for the canceled Pre-Order of Janos Starker. I paid first of October and the release is nowhere in sight. I got music I want to listen to... this year! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I've no idea who O|A|R might be. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Might need to get out a bit more.


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> I know what you're sayin'. I'm bringing Bill Evans in as my replacement for the canceled Pre-Order of Janos Starker. I paid first of October and the release is nowhere in sight. I got music I want to listen to... this year!


 
  
  
 Mmmm...Starker. Was that a limited release, or just pre-order? The O.A.R. was limited to 1000 LPs. I got in under the 250 mark so there were a few more bonus freebies too. I can't wait!! Now, I just need to pick the TT.


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> Mmmm...Starker. Was that a limited release, or just pre-order? The O.A.R. was limited to 1000 LPs. I got in under the 250 mark so there were a few more bonus freebies too. I can't wait!! Now, I just need to pick the TT.


 
 Yeah, 2,500 numbered worldwide release. I see them funding these releases with our pre-paid dollars to an extent but I could be putting my money to work for six months elsewhere and may aven earn something. "1000 LPs"... _very nice._ Is it a double 45 RPM set?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Someone once gave me a couple of OAR albums, I never got to liking them except for the "King" song. I've mostly been listening to Anna Ternheim, Eddie Vedder, Leonard Cohen, Lykke Li, the XX and Lisa Ekdahl these last few weeks.
 Right now I've listed The Dire Straights (DSD) and Mad Season


----------



## wotts

ultrainferno said:


> *Someone once gave me a couple of OAR album*s, I never got to liking them except for the "King" song. I've mostly been listening to Anna Ternheim, Eddie Vedder, Leonard Cohen, Lykke Li, the XX and Lisa Ekdahl these last few weeks.
> Right now I've listed The Dire Straights (DSD) and Mad Season







I still listen to the Christina Perry and Vaya con Dios albums.


----------



## Silent One

Think I'm going to lie in bed now with SoundStageDirect on the iPad _next 30._.. an incentive to start getting to bed before sunrise. I'm working on it!


----------



## Ultrainferno

wotts said:


> I still listen to the Christina Perry and Vaya con Dios albums.


 
  




  
 I've added Perri to my playlist, been too long.


----------



## dminches

I am going to try a pair of HE-6s with Selah but the cable is balanced and Selah only accepts a 1/4" TRS. Can someone recommend an adapter?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Why not get an adapter for the Speaker Taps as well, David.
 My speaker tap adapter will finally arrive this week (4pin xlr to banana) to try the HE500 on my GR300b
  
 Mine is coming from Forza Audio Works, but there are tons of suppliers out their. DHC, Q, Norne Audio, Effect, Forza, etc


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> I am going to try a pair of HE-6s with Selah but the cable is balanced and Selah only accepts a 1/4" TRS. Can someone recommend an adapter?


 
  
 Four pins XLR?  Try this, I'm using it with my balanced HD800 cable.
  
 http://www.q-audio.com/


----------



## Silent One

R.I.P. Wayne Henderson


----------



## parbaked

dminches said:


> I am going to try a pair of HE-6s with Selah but the cable is balanced and Selah only accepts a 1/4" TRS. Can someone recommend an adapter?


 
 David,
 The HE-6 should come with a 1 meter long XLR > TRS adapter. That's all you need if you are using the stock balanced cable.
 If you can't get a stock adapter then BTG Audio makes an inexpensive adapter (but check the lead time as he can be slow if not in stock). 
 http://btg-audio.com/webstore.htm#ecwid:category=3351504&mode=product&product=14641214
  
  


ultrainferno said:


> Why not get an adapter for the Speaker Taps as well, David.


 
 Ultra, I think Selah was born without speaker taps...she is the strong and silent type...


----------



## Ultrainferno

parbaked said:


> Ultra, I think Selah was born without speaker taps...she is the strong and silent type...


 
  
 Ah too bad. What does that make Clayton and my 300B then?
 In that case David needs a simple adapter


----------



## dminches

jc9394 said:


> Four pins XLR?  Try this, I'm using it with my balanced HD800 cable.
> 
> http://www.q-audio.com/


 
  
 yes, 4 pin XLR.


----------



## dminches

parbaked said:


> David,
> The HE-6 should come with a 1 meter long XLR > TRS adapter. That's all you need if you are using the stock balanced cable.
> If you can't get a stock adapter then BTG Audio makes an inexpensive adapter (but check the lead time as he can be slow if not in stock).
> http://btg-audio.com/webstore.htm#ecwid:category=3351504&mode=product&product=14641214


 
  
 Thanks.  I am buying them used and I am not sure they are coming with the adapter.
  
 I will check out the link you sent.


----------



## Silent One

dminches said:


> Thanks.  I am buying them used and I am not sure they are coming with the adapter.
> 
> I will check out the link you sent.


 
 Great! But my question is can't you simply ask the seller? No need for dupes, the money saved can be applied to French Butter when you host us.


----------



## wotts

Quote:


dminches said:


> Thanks.  I am buying them used and I am not sure they are coming with the adapter.
> 
> I will check out the link you sent.


 
  
 I can send you my cable too. I'm not using it.


----------



## dminches

wotts said:


> Quote:
> 
> I can send you my cable too. I'm not using it.




Thanks. Let me see what comes in the box.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> I am going to try a pair of HE-6s with Selah but the cable is balanced and Selah only accepts a 1/4" TRS. Can someone recommend an adapter?


 

 I should have put the 4pin XLR on the amp I did that on Georges amp


----------



## 2359glenn

Who would have thought that it would cost $542.52 to send a amp to Italy  with FedEx or UPS What.


----------



## jc9394

Yeah, international shipping is better with usps.


----------



## Neogeo333

2359glenn said:


> Who would have thought that it would cost $542.52 to send a amp to Italy  with FedEx or UPS What.


 
 Holy crap thats too much.


----------



## wotts

2359glenn said:


> Who would have thought that it would cost $542.52 to send a amp to Italy  with FedEx or UPS What.


 
  
 I shipped an amp to Poland last summer and it was almost $900 via FedEx. I could not believe the guy was willing to pay that on top of the cost of the amp.


----------



## jc9394

wotts said:


> I shipped an amp to Poland last summer and it was almost $900 via FedEx. I could not believe the guy was willing to pay that on top of the cost of the amp.


 
  
  
 Must be one heck of an amp you are selling.


----------



## 2359glenn

wotts said:


> I shipped an amp to Poland last summer and it was almost $900 via FedEx. I could not believe the guy was willing to pay that on top of the cost of the amp.


 

 I guess they are used to this and insane amount of tax.in Europe.


----------



## jc9394

rnadell said:


> Just purchase one from Upscale audio and the price was 60+shipping.


 
  
 It is on the big brown truck now taking its sweet time to east coast.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> I guess they are used to this and insane amount of tax.in Europe.


 
  
 the problem shipping fedex or ups international is they use a third party broker that the buy is most likely get hit with customs and service charge.


----------



## magiccabbage

In Ireland (part of EU) - import tax is 35% on american products. Its 35% of the overall price including the shipping. With Fedex an item weighting around 15KG will cost 300 dollars. 
  
 Its a total bitch 
  
  
 Glenn - how much did that amp weight?


----------



## rnadell

jc9394 said:


> It is on the big brown truck now taking its sweet time to east coast.


 

 Mine will be here tomorrow, and this amp with the current tubes just
 continues to amaze me, as it breaks in. Thanks Glenn.


----------



## wotts

jc9394 said:


> Must be one heck of an amp you are selling.




It was my second Aleph 3.



2359glenn said:


> I guess they are used to this and insane amount of tax.in Europe.




He was saying he paid more for a lesser amp before. I was amazed.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Who would have thought that it would cost $542.52 to send a amp to Italy  with FedEx or UPS What.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> In Ireland (part of EU) - import tax is 35% on american products. Its 35% of the overall price including the shipping. With Fedex an item weighting around 15KG will cost 300 dollars.
> 
> Its a total bitch
> 
> ...


 






 When you descend on North America, you know, to check up on us, hopefully you'll be able to return with some electronic goodies.


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> When you descend on North America, you know, to check up on us, hopefully you'll be able to return with some electronic goodies.


 
  
 I am willing to hold anything here! Close to Chicago, and it's great for international travel. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll toss in free lodging. I live solo, so I don't have the 'other' to confer with. Beware the constant music though...or is it enjoy?


----------



## Neogeo333

What will MC do when the TSA ask him why his luggage is full of funny light bulbs?  
 Tell him is for a vintage christmas tree.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I think I paid about $200 when Glenn shipped me my amp, he was only using USPS back then. Over here when USPS is used you get extra customs duties that are much higher than the ones UPS, DHL, TNT or Fedex are charging.
 So sometimes it costs more in shipping but it's cheaper in importing so in the end the more expensive shipping services are worth it for us Europeans but it still depends on the country you're in. I had to pay over 200€ extra customs duties just to get my amp from USPS, and only because we declared a lower value or it would have been closer to 500€.
  
 I ordered my LCD-2 in the USA and ended up paying 30% more after customs using USPS. My second LCD-2 was sent via Fedex and I ended up paying less then the normal price here, after shipping and customs.
  
 You guys have it good in the US, then again, we have good Healthcare


----------



## Silent One

neogeo333 said:


> What will MC do when the TSA ask him why his luggage is full of funny light bulbs?
> Tell him is for a vintage christmas tree.


 





 Uh-oh! Does Ireland have RoHS in place?


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I am willing to hold anything here! Close to Chicago, and it's great for international travel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 With that kind of hospitality, can I come visit you from Europe? I don't mind make believe, we listen to recordings don't we? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Same difference.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> You guys have it good in the US, then again, we have good Healthcare


 
  
 You are rite you are better off with the higher taxes
 In the USA we have the rite to die.   The only thing that matters in the USA is the rich don't have to pay taxes.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I suppose we all have our good and bad things. We want the good things from you and you want the good things from us. It's always about money in the end


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> You guys have it good in the US, then again, we have good Healthcare


 
 I wouldn't be too sure about us having good healthcare for too long more. They are passing legislation to beat the band over here. Health care in Ireland a few years back was much better. At the moment we are not entitled to as much as we used to be because of cut backs (recession). All of the things that the older generations fought for - post world war 2 are slowly being taken away. Maybe Chomksy was right a few years back when he said that there would probably be an attack on civil liberties in the west. Scary times!


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> You are rite you are better off with the higher taxes
> In the USA we have the rite to die.   The only thing that matters in the USA is the rich don't have to pay taxes.


 
 I remember seeing that Michael more documentary "sicko". That women who worked as a nurse for an american hospital all her life and when her husband got cancer they just let the man die because of the insurance policy fine print. Horrible.
  
 Did Obama's health care plan survive with any integrity?


----------



## Neogeo333

Let face it, the only ones that are gaining on health care are the corporations.   With the government in there pocket we the people are at there mercy for health care unless you are wealthy.  We as a nation have been slowly dying.  Forgotten are the old days of JFK and such.
 Used to give  a rats ass about politics then House of Cards came along and bam.  When is the next season gonna start?


----------



## dminches

Pretty cool tube. CV4069.


----------



## Silent One

Fantastic foto


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Pretty cool tube. CV4069.


 
 There were many tubes that were meant to be soldered to circuit boards especially during WW2 they only
 needed to work once.


----------



## Neogeo333

It reminds me when I had someone change the 6021 miniature tube on my Audio Aero Prima cd player.


----------



## Clayton SF

I have returned to SFO. Here is my flight Hawaiian Airlines 12. From my iPhone. A video of me taking off this afternoon from HNL to SFO.
 Fun! 15 April 2014.
 Cocktails please!
  
 I'm home!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Welcome back C!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Welcome back C!


 

 I MISSED YOU ALL. I REALLY DID.
 Talked to some old military guys about tubes and they were really impressed. They were in their 80s and 90s. One guy was a pilot on a B-17 during WWII and another guy worked the torpedoes on a submarine. These guys were at my mother's care center. Really great characters. When I told them about the tubes in my amps they had no idea that they would still work. I told them that a light bulb would work decades later if they've never been used, and so would a vacuum tube. They're the same family.
  
 These guys were a treasure trove of info. And they couldn't believe I would be interested in old radio tubes (as they called them).


----------



## Ultrainferno

Did they have an old NOS stock we can have a look at?  You asked, right?


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Did they have an old NOS stock we can have a look at?  You asked, right?


 
  
 I wore my Mullard T-shirt into the dining room and they recognized the logo.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm wearing the blue RCA shirt right now actually


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I'm wearing the blue RCA shirt right now actually


----------



## jc9394

Welcome back Clayton.   You guys are hardcore tube lover.


----------



## Silent One

Welcome back Clayton. Time now to let music restore your soul!


----------



## 2359glenn

Welcome back Clayton are you back to work?
 Tomorrow I get plane tickets to Athens I go in June
 Also I have to get a E1000 so my girl friend L can go wild at the jewelry stores there.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Welcome back Clayton are you back to work?
> Tomorrow I get plane tickets to Athens I go in June
> Also I have to get a E1000 so my girl friend L can go wild at the jewelry stores there.


 

 Yes. I am back to work.
  
 An E1000. You are generous. Let her go wild at the jewelry stores--you and S go wild any- and everywhere anyway.


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Yes. I am back to work.
> 
> An E1000. You are generous. Let her go wild at the jewelry stores--you and S go wild any- and everywhere anyway.


 

 Yes we will be bad boys especially if all the girls go out shopping.
 Then we will go out too.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Welcome back Clayton are you back to work?
> *Tomorrow I get plane tickets to Athens I go in June*
> Also I have to get a E1000 so my girl friend L can go wild at the jewelry stores there.


----------



## Clayton SF

It was a very pleasant flight. Too bad it didn't continue on to Brussels and Athens.


----------



## Silent One

Your pix are very nice and illustrate I need to get up and go somewhere... _by Jet._


----------



## rnadell

Wondering if this tube is worth looking at? thanks
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-422A-ELECTRON-TUBE-MINIMUM-40-/321381280831?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ad3d12c3f


----------



## 2359glenn

rnadell said:


> Wondering if this tube is worth looking at? thanks
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-422A-ELECTRON-TUBE-MINIMUM-40-/321381280831?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ad3d12c3f


 

 I never listened to one of these but DG said they were great the best sounding rectifier.
 And she tried on a amp just like yours.


----------



## rnadell

I was wondering if the test results of this tube make it one worth
 while bidding on. I know the seller is a good one but I don't know
 what I am looking for in the test results. thanks


2359glenn said:


> I never listened to one of these but DG said they were great the best sounding rectifier.
> And she tried on a amp just like yours.


----------



## 2359glenn

I think that is a good tube.
  
 Best bet is to ask Dubstep Girl how that tube sounds in your amp


----------



## jc9394

Stolen from DG's thread, I think the impression was based on Glenn's OTL amp.

1. Western Electric 422A (early 50's grey plate and later 60s black plate)

 This is Western Electric's version of the 5U4G, with slightly different specifications, it should be fully compatible with 5U4G amps (Stratus - maybe, Woo, Decware, etc.). The construction is quite interesting, having the same domino plates and overall build as the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes. Anyways, the sound? This is by far the best tube I have ever owned or heard. My reference tube. As with many of the rare holy grail super tubes out there, they are nearly perfect in every way. Hauntingly beautiful tone, lots of air, great layering, transparency above the rest, and just perfect extension in both the highs and lows, deep bass, palpable, lucid midrange, holographic 3D staging and imaging (like with the WA22 and Glenn OTL, the image is very life-like and out of head unreal good at times), amazing! Overall balance is great as its neither overly warm nor bright, transients and PRaT are as good as they get with tubes (like seriously, beautiful liquid transients!). Out of both tubes I have, I think they both sound pretty much identical, the older grey plate looks a little nicer and might sound a bit better, but they're pretty much the same tube. Price is generally high with singles being anywhere from $400 to 750$.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Stolen from DG's thread, I think the impression was based on Glenn's OTL amp.
> 
> 1. Western Electric 422A (early 50's grey plate and later 60s black plate)
> 
> This is Western Electric's version of the 5U4G, with slightly different specifications, it should be fully compatible with 5U4G amps (Stratus - maybe, Woo, Decware, etc.). The construction is quite interesting, having the same domino plates and overall build as the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes. Anyways, the sound? This is by far the best tube I have ever owned or heard. My reference tube. As with many of the rare holy grail super tubes out there, they are nearly perfect in every way. Hauntingly beautiful tone, lots of air, great layering, transparency above the rest, and just perfect extension in both the highs and lows, deep bass, palpable, lucid midrange, holographic 3D staging and imaging (like with the WA22 and Glenn OTL, the image is very life-like and out of head unreal good at times), amazing! Overall balance is great as its neither overly warm nor bright, transients and PRaT are as good as they get with tubes (like seriously, beautiful liquid transients!). Out of both tubes I have, I think they both sound pretty much identical, the older grey plate looks a little nicer and might sound a bit better, but they're pretty much the same tube. Price is generally high with singles being anywhere from $400 to 750$.


 
  
 thanks!! 
  
 applies to WA22 as well, sounded very good in both amps. 
  
  
 i know if i buy another tube amp and it supports the WE422A, thats the only tube i really need, don't really need to bother rolling anymore, its that good. still my reference tube!


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> thanks!!
> 
> applies to WA22 as well, sounded very good in both amps.
> 
> ...


 

 If you get one from me I will wire it specifically for the WE422A the heater pins are reversed
 pin 2 and 8 are the opposite way compared to the GZ34 or GZ37.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> If you get one from me I will wire it specifically for the WE422A the heater pins are reversed
> pin 2 and 8 are the opposite way compared to the GZ34 or GZ37.


 
 great idea


----------



## parbaked

Listening to Kenny Dorham before I set out to meet Clayton for more tequila and pizza...we're in a very good rut...


----------



## 2359glenn

Sounds like fun Tequila my favorite beverage. I am jealous.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> If you get one from me I will wire it specifically for the WE422A the heater pins are reversed
> pin 2 and 8 are the opposite way compared to the GZ34 or GZ37.


 
  
 thanks i'll keep it in mind!
  
 would it also work with U52 and all the others?


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Listening to Kenny Dorham before I set out to meet Clayton for more tequila and pizza...we're in a very good rut...


 
 That's some good listening right there.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> thanks i'll keep it in mind!
> 
> would it also work with U52 and all the others?


 

 It wouldent matter with the U52 or 5U4 or any of the direct heated rectifiers.
 It would matter on the GZ34 , GZ37 I could put a DC output switch pin 2 WE422 or pin 8 GZ34 ,GZ37 eset.


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> Listening to Kenny Dorham before I set out to meet Clayton for more tequila and pizza...we're in a very good rut...




Pizza... Was in Chicago last few days but no time to get any deep dish. :mad:


----------



## wotts

jc9394 said:


> Pizza... Was in Chicago last few days but no time to get any deep dish.


 
  
  
 I am headed that way for AXPONA next weekend with Musicman59. I'll see about getting some and report back.


----------



## longbowbbs

wotts said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > Pizza... Was in Chicago last few days but no time to get any deep dish.
> ...


 
 I am trying to make Saturday...We'll see how the week pans out.


----------



## wotts

I've never been to a show before. I am looking forward to it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wotts said:


> I am headed that way for AXPONA next weekend with Musicman59. I'll see about getting some and report back.





Its next weekend?!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> It wouldent matter with the U52 or 5U4 or any of the direct heated rectifiers.
> It would matter on the GZ34 , GZ37 I could put a DC output switch pin 2 WE422 or pin 8 GZ34 ,GZ37 eset.





Oooh


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wotts said:


> I've never been to a show before. I am looking forward to it.




Same


----------



## wotts

dubstep girl said:


> Its next weekend?!


 
  
 Yes ma'am. I took Friday off so I can go all three days. We're staying at the convention center.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn said:


> It wouldent matter with the U52 or 5U4 or any of the direct heated rectifiers.
> It would matter on the GZ34 , GZ37 I could put a DC output switch pin 2 WE422 or pin 8 GZ34 ,GZ37 eset.


 
  
 Interesting, always thought rectifier tubes are DHT.  I am building a psu now with DC out on pin 2, better keep the G37 off.  
  
 It seems that the Woo amps would take both WE422a and G37?


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Listening to Kenny Dorham before I set out to meet Clayton for more tequila and pizza...we're in a very good rut...


 
  
_*We met. We drank. We ate. We parted. We're in a very good rut.*_


----------



## longbowbbs

dubstep girl said:


> wotts said:
> 
> 
> > I am headed that way for AXPONA next weekend with Musicman59. I'll see about getting some and report back.
> ...


 
 http://www.axpona.com


----------



## jc9394

longbowbbs said:


> http://www.axpona.com




I may be back on the week of 28, let's see if I can head out couple days earlier.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wotts said:


> Yes ma'am. I took Friday off so I can go all three days. We're staying at the convention center.


 
  
 oh cool! i think i'll go check it out this time around since i haven't been to it yet.


----------



## longbowbbs

If I can make it I will only be there Saturday....


----------



## rnadell

dubstep girl said:


> thanks!!
> 
> applies to WA22 as well, sounded very good in both amps.
> 
> ...


 

 Did you use the adapter with the Glenn otl?


----------



## jc9394

Clayton, looks you guys have fun last night.


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> Interesting, always thought rectifier tubes are DHT.  I am building a psu now with DC out on pin 2, better keep the G37 off.
> 
> It seems that the Woo amps would take both WE422a and G37?


 

 You would be better off coming off pin 8 it don't matter with direct heated rectifiers like 5U4.
 But indirect like GZ34 the cathode is connected to pin 8 as well as the heater.
 As far as I know all of these rectifiers connect it to pin 8 except the WE422A.
  
 It will still work in all amps but there will be a additional 5 volts of ripple on the DC output
 of the rectifier that the filter capacitors will have to get rid of.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnadell said:


> Did you use the adapter with the Glenn otl?


 

 No she didn't.
 It will work fine in the OTL I am just saying it would be easier on the power supply if pins 1 & 8 are reversed with the 422A


----------



## Skylab

I will be at Axpona all three days - I hope to see some of you guys there.


----------



## wotts

skylab said:


> I will be at Axpona all three days - I hope to see some of you guys there.


 
  
  
 That would be pretty awesome. Shoot me a text message and perhaps we can meet sometime over the weekend.


----------



## Skylab

Sounds good, Tim. I'd enjoy that.


----------



## rnadell

2359glenn said:


> No she didn't.
> It will work fine in the OTL I am just saying it would be easier on the power supply if pins 1 & 8 are reversed with the 422A


 

 Thanks Glenn, would you send me a pm with price for the adapter.
 thanks


----------



## 2359glenn

rnadell said:


> Thanks Glenn, would you send me a pm with price for the adapter.
> thanks


 
 You bought the WE422A tube on E-Bay ??????????


----------



## rnadell

2359glenn said:


> You bought the WE422A tube on E-Bay ??????????


 

 No but I am on a mission to find one. There is a lot of homework to be
 done before I purchase. Date codes? Seems they made these tubes for
 quite a while. Which ones were the best? I can see it would be easy to enter
 the screwdom pit with this tube. Ideally I would like to purchase from someone
 that could be trusted. The tube on ebay is being sold by someone for someone
 and test a 51 and 52 with a minimum of 40. The seller doesn't bother to post that
 on the listing. Anyway I really want to try one but for now I am happy with the
 5998's, bgrp and a gz32. thanks


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rnadell said:


> No but I am on a mission to find one. There is a lot of homework to be
> done before I purchase. Date codes? Seems they made these tubes for
> quite a while. Which ones were the best? I can see it would be easy to enter
> the screwdom pit with this tube. Ideally I would like to purchase from someone
> ...


 
  
 if you like the sound of the GZ32, u can also look at U52.
  
 this seller seems to be a good source, hopefully he still has those beautiful brown marbled base tubes.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/U52-5U4G-MOV-MARCONI-VINTAGE-VALVE-TUBE-/261248448680?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3cd39ef8a8


----------



## rnadell

dubstep girl said:


> if you like the sound of the GZ32, u can also look at U52.
> 
> this seller seems to be a good source, hopefully he still has those beautiful brown marbled base tubes.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/U52-5U4G-MOV-MARCONI-VINTAGE-VALVE-TUBE-/261248448680?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3cd39ef8a8


 

 Thanks, by the way I am still enjoying your rectifier review, great reference. I hope I don't flunk retirement playing with these tubes.


----------



## jc9394

rnadell said:


> No but I am on a mission to find one. There is a lot of homework to be
> done before I purchase. Date codes? Seems they made these tubes for
> quite a while. Which ones were the best? I can see it would be easy to enter
> the screwdom pit with this tube. Ideally I would like to purchase from someone
> ...


 
  
 If you are using HD800, try the GEC 6080.  They are much better than the 5998 for HD800.


----------



## Clayton SF

To all who travel on business: I wish my company meetings were held other cities except mine.
 My friend, Paul, whom I traveled with to Amsterdam last year is having a 4-day company meeting in Amsterdam on Monday.
 Instead, I am going to Powell Street to buy some records this RSD at Rasputin Music.


----------



## Neogeo333

jc9394 said:


> If you are using HD800, try the GEC 6080.  They are much better than the 5998 for HD800.


 
 +1 on that.  Just tried them for three days.  Finally changed the 6336 for the GEC 6080 for fun and was very good even for my orthos.  What it impress me the most was how good it soundstage was.  It didn't have the warm sound of the 6336 but the GEC held its own.  Definitely a tube to keep.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> To all who travel on business: I wish my company meetings were held other cities except mine.
> My friend, Paul, whom I traveled with to Amsterdam last year is having a 4-day company meeting in Amsterdam on Monday.
> Instead, I am going to Powell Street to buy some records this RSD at Rasputin Music.


 
  
  
 Travel on business is not much fun, usually packed with tight agenda that run from 8am to 6-7pm to get the most of you.  My agenda last week was from 8am to 6pm plus working dinners.  By the time I have it myself is around 9/10pm, the Navy Pier was closed when I got there at Tuesday and we went to Big Bar instead.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

clayton sf said:


> To all who travel on business: I wish my company meetings were held other cities except mine.
> My friend, Paul, whom I traveled with to Amsterdam last year is having a 4-day company meeting in Amsterdam on Monday.
> Instead, I am going to Powell Street to buy some records this RSD at Rasputin Music.


 
  
 Once in a while is good, to get out of routine.  But it's a hassle, airport, tsa, jet lag, taxi, hotel, a hole day listening to lots of talk.  Always gain weight on any business trip (messing up my biking routine, getting drop on the next group ride).  I refer to stay put, listening to tube amped musics at home.


----------



## dminches

I will be there too with Skylab. I am the good looking one :tongue_smile:


----------



## longbowbbs

dminches said:


> I will be there too with Skylab. I am the good looking one


 
 David, I will be there Saturday and Sunday. I just got my room and tickets confirmed.


----------



## wotts

This is ought to be fun!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ill be there saturday


----------



## rnadell

jc9394 said:


> If you are using HD800, try the GEC 6080.  They are much better than the 5998 for HD800.


 

 I have the T1's, but the 6080's are on my list. Thanks


----------



## jc9394

You guys have fun, the earliest I can make it there will be on Sunday morning.  Looks like I will most likely missed it.


----------



## longbowbbs

Any ideas for a brief 2359Glenn get together? We could meet at the EGX area?....


----------



## wotts

That sounds fine to me. Perhaps dinner after the show saturday?


----------



## longbowbbs

That would be fun. The Marriott across the street has a really nice Italian restaurant.


----------



## musicman59

wotts said:


> That sounds fine to me. Perhaps dinner after the show saturday?


 
 That sounds great! Let's have a Head-Fi members dinner Saturday night.


----------



## musicman59

clayton sf said:


> _*We met. We drank. We ate. We parted. We're in a very good rut.*_


 
  
 Arribe! Arriba! Andale! Andale! Nothing like good bullfight pictures, good tequila and The Guadalupe Virgin to protect us! SALUD!


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> That would be fun. The Marriott across the street has a really nice Italian restaurant.


 
 I am definitely gonna make a trip over next year - i just wish i could make it this year.


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > That would be fun. The Marriott across the street has a really nice Italian restaurant.
> ...


 
 It is tough to make these things since I am gone so much. This weekend came together at the last minute. We'll be thinking of you, Paddy!


----------



## rosgr63

Happy Easter.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Happy Easter.


 
 Happy Easter to all!


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> rosgr63 said:
> 
> 
> > Happy Easter.
> ...


 
 "Happy Easter!"


----------



## Dubstep Girl

happy easter/420 day!!


----------



## modca

Happy Easter to anyone


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Easter  to all


----------



## rosgr63

Richard here's the beast you're looking for.
 I haven't tried it yet I need the 1-8 adapter Glenn mentioned.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Nice one! Happy Easter guys.


----------



## rosgr63

Ultra, how many chocolate eggs did you have?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I started 3 weeks ago. I lost count. My fav ones are the black ones with marsepan and alcohol inside


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I started 3 weeks ago. I lost count. My fav ones are the black ones with marsepan and alcohol inside


 

 Yummy!


----------



## rosgr63

That's cheating..............
  
 I am very jealous


----------



## dminches

Hi Stavros. 

Happy Easter to all.


----------



## rnadell

Happy Easter to all


----------



## rosgr63

Hello David, Thank you!


----------



## Silent One

A Blast from the Past on Easter Sunday!


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> A Blast from the Past on Easter Sunday!


 
 That is such a sweet little amp!


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> That's cheating..............
> 
> I am very jealous


 
 welcome back my friend!!!!


----------



## alota

happy easter to all(one day after).
 this holidays i drank a lot with a lot of irish people!!!!
 i learned this words: póg mo thóin


----------



## Silent One

Yes, alota, time for renewal...cheers!


----------



## rosgr63

alota said:


> welcome back my friend!!!!


 
  
 Grazie Mille!!!!!!


----------



## magiccabbage

alota said:


> happy easter to all(one day after).
> this holidays i drank a lot with a lot of irish people!!!!
> i learned this words: póg mo thóin


 
 haha
  
 Where you in Ireland?


----------



## alota

magiccabbage said:


> haha
> 
> Where you in Ireland?


 

 not in EIRE.
 i have a house in the south odf Portugal and i always go in a irish café with karaoke, guinness and irish of course
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 one day my dream is to see your country


----------



## rosgr63

Aldo, you know what my dream is, don't you?


----------



## Neogeo333

Stavros,  good to see you back.
  
 I don't know what Aldo think but I think your dreams involves this every night.


----------



## Neogeo333

Have any of you guys and gals here ordered from Yamamoto Soundcraft before?  Trying to get their UX socket and meters but it seems they don't answer emails.


----------



## rosgr63

Oh George, you always read my mind........
  
 As for Yamamoto patience my friend, patience.....


----------



## rosgr63

BTW I have not seen the Rectifier King mentioned much, I wonder why.........
  
 Mullard U52 with Impeller Type top mica, Flat pan getter and black ribbed plates and hanging filament.


----------



## 2359glenn

Jac music has both the sockets and meters + the silver wire you want.


----------



## Ultrainferno

http://www.lollyphile.com/collections/beer-wine
  
 Beer lollipops!! How awesome is that


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> http://www.lollyphile.com/collections/beer-wine
> 
> Beer lollipops!! How awesome is that


 

 You are getting bad too!   Oh I was looking at the girls.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I hear you Glenn, miss IPA Beer can come play with my lolli euh, come over anyday!


----------



## Neogeo333

2359glenn said:


> Jac music has both the sockets and meters + the silver wire you want.


 
 Thanks Glenn.   Gonna send them a email.  Maybe I will go VH audio for the wires after all.


----------



## Neogeo333

This is bad, imagine Glenn sucking on those while soldering parts for a amp.


----------



## Silent One

neogeo333 said:


> Have any of you guys and gals here ordered from Yamamoto Soundcraft before?  Trying to get their UX socket and meters but it seems they don't answer emails.


 
 No, but Yamamoto-san always answers my inquiries promptly... in English.


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> This is bad, imagine Glenn sucking on those while soldering parts for a amp.


 

 Forget the amp


----------



## Silent One

I'm all for inspiration so if it works, then...


----------



## gibosi

Greetings,
  
 I am pleased to announce that I am now on track to becoming a full-fledged member of the Glenn OTL Club. 
  
 And I would like to add, that while this is my first post, I have in fact read all 600+ pages, and have been amazed to read about so much food and to witness such remarkable friendship.
  
 Like many on Head-Fi, my tube journey starts with a Little Dot, an LD 1+ hybrid, in my case. Not satisfied with the recommended tubes, last year a number of us in the Little Dot forum decided to try everything and anything that looked like it might work, to see if we could find some better tubes. To make a long story short, through the use of a very crude mod, I am now rolling double triodes: 6DJ8, 2C51, ECC40, E80CC and, of course, 6SN7. And just recently, I have been listening to a pair of C3g.
  
 At this point in time, even though I think this little $100 amp is sounding great, I think I have ridden it as far as I can.  And so recently, I have been wondering how good these tubes might sound in an OTL tube amp that has been carefully and deliberately designed to run them from the getgo. And I am about to find out. 
  
 Cheers
  

  
 Edit: correct spelling


----------



## Sko0byDoo

gibosi said:


> Greetings,
> 
> I am pleased to announce that I am now on track to becoming a full-fledged member of the Glenn OTL Club.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice hacks...gotta get myself that 6.3V digital readout


----------



## Silent One

I wonder what the piece is in the background to the right with an analog face dial...


----------



## gibosi

silent one said:


> I wonder what the piece is in the background to the right with an analog face dial...


 
  
 That is an old McIntosh 1700 Reciever from the early 1970's. I am told it was their first hybrid, with SS output and tubes in the pre amp and tuner. It hasn't been turned on in over 20 years and is in need of some TLC....


----------



## rnadell

silent one said:


> I wonder what the piece is in the background to the right with an analog face dial...


 

 You have an eye like a hawk, nothing gets by u


----------



## Silent One

rnadell said:


> You have an eye like a hawk, nothing gets by u


 
 Now, if I can only learn to find my voice.


----------



## alota

neogeo333 said:


> Stavros,  good to see you back.
> 
> I don't know what Aldo think but I think your dreams involves this every night.


 

 same dream!!!


----------



## rosgr63

I was only referring to the Mullard U52..................and Ultra's lollipops.............
  
 So there's still some hope for me.
  
  

  

  
  
 Hi Gibosi, welcome on board!!!!!
 You've done some great work with the LD, lot's of fun.


----------



## gibosi

rosgr63... Thank you! And I have no doubt that I will have even more fun with a Glenn OTL.


----------



## rosgr63

You are most welcome.
 I have thoroughly enjoyed your work.
  
 This is a great thread too.
  
 Sometimes we get a little carried away but still learn a lot.


----------



## rosgr63




----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> Sometimes we get a little carried away


 
  
  


rosgr63 said:


>


 
 in fact.
 that awesome..........finger!!!!


----------



## Neogeo333

Stavros is that the rectifier you talking about?  Your always finding old buried treasures.


----------



## Oskari

There are things in this thread that can never be beaten... but you are such a tease, aren't you, Stavros...
  
  


rosgr63 said:


>


 
  


neogeo333 said:


>


 
  


neogeo333 said:


>


----------



## longbowbbs

neogeo333 said:


> Stavros,  good to see you back.
> 
> I don't know what Aldo think but I think your dreams involves this every night.


 
 I am sorry...What were we talking about?


----------



## Neogeo333

Apparently all europeans dream the same thing.


----------



## alota

neogeo333 said:


> Apparently all europeans dream the same thing.


 
 we are a United people


----------



## rosgr63

alota said:


> we are a United people


 
  
 Yes we are!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

oskari said:


> There are things in this thread that can never be beaten... but you are such a tease, aren't you, Stavros...


 
  
 Oskari I am trying very hard to be good but my friends here won't let me.........
  
 What can I do?


----------



## Oskari

You can start by posting more photos of that tube.


----------



## Silent One

We should start thinking of how to celebrate the thread's "10,000th post."


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Oskari I am trying very hard to be good but my friends here won't let me.........
> 
> What can I do?


 

 Now who is being a bad influence on you ?


----------



## alota

silent one said:


> We should start thinking of how to celebrate the thread's "10,000th post."


 
 with my 1500 headphoneus supremus without headphones
 we open some beer kegs(around 100)


----------



## Ultrainferno

silent one said:


> We should start thinking of how to celebrate the thread's "10,000th post."


 
  
 Party at Clayton's place in SF. It will be legendary


----------



## 2359glenn

I'me game
 Clayton might kill us though if we all just show up.
 Are you bringing the beer !


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Now who is being a bad influence on you ?


 
  
 George
 Steven
 Clayton
 Lieven
 Aldo
 Sergei
 & last but not least you!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Party at Clayton's place in SF. It will be legendary


 

  
 Ultra! Great idea. But you must supply the beer from Belgium. And parbaked can bring the pizza from the Mission. I'll supply the music and the view at twilight (taken yesterday near dusk):


----------



## Ultrainferno

I will bring a container of Belgian beer and I will bring some good bubbly for SO. But who's bringing the girls?


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I will bring a container of Belgian beer and I will bring some good bubbly for SO. But who's bringing the girls?


 
  
 Ultra! If you don't behave yourself, I'll have to call in the Royal Guards to put you in line.
 They'll be pouring the beers and serving the pizza slices.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I call dibs on the  first 3 on the right


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I call dibs on the  first 3 on the right


 
  
 A triode!


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> I will bring a container of Belgian beer and *I will bring some good bubbly for SO*. But who's bringing the girls?


 
 The decision to bring French bubbly mad my day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could delight in some right now! Especially since yesterday I completed my first Century ride - went for 105 miles. I wasn't prepared to do it, wasn't feelin' that great and stayed up late the morning of. Left my gloves at home and my hands took a beating from road shock. First 20 minutes I realized I left my water bottles at home... reached down and only then realized 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




the cages were empty. Several cafes along the beaches were very good to me providing me with water.
  
 The original plan was for the usual 50 mile outing. But when I returned to the car after a less than enjoyable ride, I decided to do it again for added mental toughness. It was very satisfying to dig down deep and get through it. Some bubbly would aid my recovery no doubt!


----------



## Silent One

Though I don't eat Chicken, it's still entertaining for me to watch those in hot pursuit of good Southern Deep-fried Chicken around L.A.! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  




  
 L.A. is car culture... gotta love it!


----------



## rosgr63

Is this enough beer Lieven?


----------



## Clayton SF




----------



## jc9394




----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Now who is being a bad influence on you ?
> ...


 
 Clearly I am the one Lone Positive influence.....


----------



## gibosi

Judging by the last several pages, it would seem that a tube-related post is off-topic? lol 
  
 Has anyone tried a Sylvania subminiature 7963 double triode?
  
 I learned about this tube over at Rock Grotto:
  
 http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/9798/sylvania-7963-best-e88cc-planet?page=1&scrollTo=134293
  
 I picked one up and after spending a few hours with it, I would agree that it seems to be at least as good as any E88CC / 6922 or E188CC / 7308 I have rolled.
  
 Sylvania 7963 and Voskhod 6N23P


----------



## rosgr63

oskari said:


> You can start by posting more photos of that tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


>


 

 I missed that tube the last time I was at your house.
 Looks like it would be fun to build a amp around.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn, the last thing we'll do is tube talk..................
  
 C will get mad, can't take any tech talk, only girl talk.
 Remember his high tech notepad?


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Glenn, the last thing we'll do is tube talk..................
> 
> C will get mad, can't take any tech talk, only girl talk.
> Remember his high tech notepad?


 

 Yea we will be in trouble with L & W if we do tube talk in the morning.
 I was going to send over another amplifier to play with while we are there. A strange one with almost no parts
 only tubes in the circuit. using rectifiers for the cathode resistors.  No bypass capacitors needed. Only the tubes and output capacitors.
 We will be in trouble with the girls as usual.


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> Clearly I am the one Lone Positive influence.....


----------



## rosgr63

Do you want to get me into more trouble???


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> Do you want to get me into more trouble???




Rhetorical question?


----------



## rosgr63

No....................just scarred!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Do you want to get me into more trouble???


 

 Of coarse I do.    It is a indicator of how much fun we had.
 The more trouble the better. The only thing I have a 12hr flight home with L. might seem like 36hrs.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Of coarse I do.    It is a indicator of how much fun we had.
> The more trouble the better. The only thing I have a 12hr flight home with L. might seem like 36hrs.




Whiskey! Will seem like 30 mimutes


----------



## alota

ultrainferno said:


> Whiskey! Will seem like 30 mimutes



I have some bottles


----------



## Clayton SF

alota said:


> I have some bottles


 
  
 and I have some empty ones.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Whiskey! Will seem like 30 mimutes


 

 Good idea.    But then a hole lot of trouble on the way home from the airport


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Whiskey! Will seem like 30 mimutes


 
  
  


alota said:


> I have some bottles


 

 Can you drop one off in Greece


----------



## rosgr63

Aldo has already sent some nice ones!!!!!!!
  
 Best cure is to say nothing and don't look or chat up the air stewardesses.
 I know you have a smooth way with them.........
  
 Remember whatever we do or say we'll get wrong anyway.........


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Aldo has already sent some nice ones!!!!!!!
> 
> Best cure is to say nothing and don't look or chat up the air stewardesses.
> I know you have a smooth way with them.........
> ...


 

 I don't expect to be talking by time we leave your house.


----------



## rosgr63

As long as we don't get hit by the girls too many times...........


----------



## Clayton SF

To those of you who live in The Netherlands: Happy King's Day!
_*Amsterdam WebCams*_
  
_*Koningsdag*_


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


>


 
  
 Lol, thanks! How about one showing the tube in full? Perhaps even the label?


----------



## rosgr63

Sure, dressed like a* king* with the Air Ministry insignia.


----------



## 2359glenn

OK what is the number of the tube ???


----------



## rosgr63

People will get offended if I mention it.....................


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> People will get offended if I mention it.....................


 

 Not me
 You could E-Mail it to me tomorrow.


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> Sure, dressed like a* king* with the Air Ministry insignia.


 
  
 It's gorgeous! A 10E/11529 if I see that right.
  

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_10e11529.html


----------



## 2359glenn

If Oskari is right that beauty will work in your OTL


----------



## Oskari

Oops. I hope that was not a secret...


----------



## wotts

Checking in from AXPONA! Lots of amazing stuff here and it's has been neat to meet some of the big names in the industry. I just wish some were a bit more down-to-earth.

So, who's up for dinner?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

things came up, looks like I wasn't able to make it today and I don't feel like going tomorrow lol.


----------



## 2359glenn

Maybe next year ran out of money I sure would like to meet everyone.


----------



## longbowbbs

Great time today at AXPONA meeting Wotts, Skylab, DMinches and Musicman59...It was like a great mini meet without having to bring any gear!


----------



## wotts

longbowbbs said:


> Great time today at AXPONA meeting Wotts, Skylab, DMinches and Musicman59...It was like a great mini meet without having to bring any gear!




I'm glad we got to meet! I'm looking forward to a Glenn Studios get-together.


----------



## magiccabbage

wotts said:


> Checking in from AXPONA! Lots of amazing stuff here and it's has been neat to meet some of the big names in the industry. I just wish some were a bit more down-to-earth.
> 
> So, who's up for dinner?


 
 what do you mean by "i wish some were a bit more down to earth"? The headfiers or people working for companies?


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> things came up, looks like I wasn't able to make it today and I don't feel like going tomorrow lol.


 





 You mean Parking would have been an issue with the Benz-o? I kid, I kid. I may hit up Chi-town next year!


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I'm glad we got to meet! I'm looking forward to a Glenn Studios get-together.


 
 I still think this would be a cool thing to do. It'd be great to meet up with y'all over Sweet Potato Pie in NC or Pizza in NJ, Glenn or dminches willing.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

silent one said:


> You mean Parking would have been an issue with the Benz-o? I kid, I kid. I may hit up Chi-town next year!


 
  
  
 lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 nah, I checked and noticed HiFiman wasn't gonna be there this year, and I heard Woo Audio didn't have monos or wa5 for audition, so that kinda disappointed.
  
 but I did wash my car! and then I learned that its going to rain next week! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Chi-town is awesome, definitely come visit next year if you can!


----------



## dminches

It was great to see Eric and the rest of the head-fi crew.


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah it is! I use to stay off Michigan Ave and work at the McCormick Center during summer. It's a wonderful town to eat and drink in... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I certainly understand the disappointment of gears not being there that one would wanna see.


----------



## Silent One

dminches said:


> It was great to see Eric and the rest of the head-fi crew.


 




 Missed you all. But I was there in spirit...


----------



## wotts

magiccabbage said:


> what do you mean by "i wish some were a bit more down to earth"? The headfiers or people working for companies?




Vendors.


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> Yeah it is! I use to stay off Michigan Ave and work at the McCormick Center during summer. It's a wonderful town to eat and drink in...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I was surprised by the Woo models. I have seen the WA5 up close, but none of the others. They were smaller than I expected, despite seeing all of the pictures.

It's been a great time so far. I look forward to my next show visit.


----------



## longbowbbs

It was my first opportunity to listen to Woo gear. I spent most of the time with the WA-22 and My HD800's with the Toxic Cables Silver Widows in balanced....Very nice. I was using Woo's DAC with the TI chips. Jack was awesome. I also enjoyed the WA7 with the external power supply. Too bad the 234's were not in residence.


----------



## rosgr63

oskari said:


> It's gorgeous! A 10E/11529 if I see that right.
> 
> 
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_10e11529.html


 
  
 Well done Oskari!
  
 Actually there are two tubes but with different markings.
 One of them is the Air Ministry Version VU71 10E/11529 5-250MA and the other shown here.
  


oskari said:


> Oops. I hope that was not a secret...


 
  
 I don't have any secrets when it comes to tubes.
  
 Here is the other tube with the Mullard markings


----------



## 2359glenn

Stavros were do you find these tubes.
 It took me awhile to find another GE globe 10 to replace the one that went bad.
 Had to use a ST version for awhile.


----------



## Neogeo333

Is the globe version so much better or just esthetically look better?


----------



## 2359glenn

The Globe version is older and I think it sounds better.
 Of course it could be it looks cool the new one cost me $115 really not that bad


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> Here is the other tube with the Mullard markings


 
  
 The red print is difficult to read but I think I see AMERTY, which means that the tube was marketed as an American type.
  
 Some/most/all (?) were imports because of wartime shortages. If this tube was indeed made by Mullard, and I don't see off-hand who else could have made it, "all" can't be true.
  
 P.S. Thanks for the interesting photos!


----------



## Silent One

You guys are good!


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> The Globe version is older and I think it sounds better.
> Of course it could be it looks cool the new one cost me $115 really not that bad


 
  
 That's right, same story with 45's.
 Globe versions are early production.
 Some claim that the shape of the class affects the sound. (Enemosser C37 project)
 I find the Globe KR 300B's sound different to the ST type.
  


2359glenn said:


> Stavros were do you find these tubes.
> It took me awhile to find another GE globe 10 to replace the one that went bad.
> Had to use a ST version for awhile.


 
  
 eBay, but it has taken a long time.
  


oskari said:


> The red print is difficult to read but I think I see AMERTY, which means that the tube was marketed as an American type.
> 
> Some/most/all (?) were imports because of wartime shortages. If this tube was indeed made by Mullard, and I don't see off-hand who else could have made it, "all" can't be true.
> 
> P.S. Thanks for the interesting photos!


 
  
 This is a very early production valve most likely made by Mullard.
 As for the markings, I don't trust them much.
 Remember Gibosi's photo of a Mullard marked 6SN7?
 I too have some 6SN7s made by Brimar, STC, Philips etc marked Mullard.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 It is raining on and off since I landed.  Not too happy to arrive with rain but prefer this over last time with snow couple weeks ago.


----------



## jc9394

longbowbbs said:


> Great time today at AXPONA meeting Wotts, Skylab, DMinches and Musicman59...It was like a great mini meet without having to bring any gear!


 
  
  
 Missed, not a good timing.  Booked my flight before knowing AXPONA is happening last weekend.


----------



## longbowbbs

We missed you John.....Next year April 24-26.....


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> As for the markings, I don't trust them much.
> Remember Gibosi's photo of a Mullard marked 6SN7?
> I too have some 6SN7s made by Brimar, STC, Philips etc marked Mullard.


 
  
 That's wise.
  
 Yeah. I have Mullard 6SN7GTs made by British Tungsram.


----------



## Clayton SF

I just check on flights to Holland--to get tubes of course 
 It is $1800 for a RT flight in coach in August!
 10 years ago it was $320.


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> I just check on flights to Holland--to get tubes of course
> It is $1800 for a RT flight in coach in August!
> 10 years ago it was $320.


 
 Jesusbarrychrist!


----------



## jc9394

No cheap flights anymore. My trip from Boston to Chicago was over $600.


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> I just check on flights to Holland--to get tubes of course
> It is $1800 for a RT flight in coach in August!
> 10 years ago it was $320.


 

 Buy them now when it gets closer they start going up $100 a day.
 It just cost me over $4000 for two round trip tickets to Greece.
 You look at the price then there is taxes and fees.


----------



## longbowbbs

I just spent $1050 for a round trip to Nashville! Crazy.....


----------



## Ultrainferno

We should all just stay at home and spend it on amps and tubes!


----------



## Skylab

Enjoy the current prices while you can. They won't be going down. Jet fuel will only continue to increase in price, and the more humans there are on planet earth, the more demand there will be for air travel.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> We should all just stay at home and spend it on amps and tubes!


 
 Good advice!
  


skylab said:


> Enjoy the current prices while you can. They won't be going down. Jet fuel will only continue to increase in price, and the more humans there are on planet earth, the more demand there will be for air travel.


 
 Good advice!
  
 Now, where is my U.S. Passport.


----------



## magiccabbage

skylab said:


> Enjoy the current prices while you can. They won't be going down. Jet fuel will only continue to increase in price, and the more humans there are on planet earth, the more demand there will be for air travel.


 
 That sounds almost impending coming from the sky!


----------



## alota

From Portugal to Sicily(really near)600€(lisbon-rome-catania) each person. we are four people 2.400€. for this reason i don´t go to my town What


----------



## Ultrainferno

I went to Lisbon last month and paid 160€ a person (TAP), the flight that left 5 minutes earlier was 330€/person.
 On a completely unrelated note, my gf fell down the stairs this morning forcing me to work from home. Now I am working while listening to the 300B and LCD-2. Good times! Not so for her, but the x-rays didn't show any fractures


----------



## alota

ultrainferno said:


> I went to Lisbon last month and paid 160€ a person (TAP), the flight that left 5 minutes earlier was 330€/person.
> On a completely unrelated note, my gf fell down the stairs this morning forcing me to work from home. Now I am working while listening to the 300B and LCD-2. Good times! Not so for her, but the x-rays didn't show any fractures



I hope that you're enjoy the food the sun the city and the people


----------



## Ultrainferno

Well it basically rained the whole time but I had fun. I was surprised the people know so little English and I kept forgetting to switch to French
 But nice city and really good cheap local food!


----------



## rosgr63

I hope S gets well soon.
  
 Portuguese Port helps a lot!!!!!!
  
 Air fares are getting higher and you get less value for money nowadays.
 The service is not what it used to be.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I went to Lisbon last month and paid 160€ a person (TAP), the flight that left 5 minutes earlier was 330€/person.
> On a completely unrelated note, my gf fell down the stairs this morning forcing me to work from home. Now I am working while listening to the 300B and LCD-2. Good times! Not so for her, but the x-rays didn't show any fractures


 
  
 Well I should sleep in your living room to avoid the stairs completely. :/


----------



## Ultrainferno

My 300B is right next to the couch, you're in good company


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> I went to Lisbon last month and paid 160€ a person (TAP), the flight that left 5 minutes earlier was 330€/person.
> On a completely unrelated note, my gf fell down the stairs this morning forcing me to work from home. Now I am working while listening to the 300B and LCD-2. Good times! Not so for her, but the x-rays didn't show any fractures.


 
 Wishing her a _speedy_ recovery...


----------



## alota

ultrainferno said:


> Well it basically rained the whole time but I had fun. I was surprised the people know so little English and I kept forgetting to switch to French
> But nice city and really good cheap local food!


 

 strange. a lot of portugueses speak english


----------



## Oskari

Merry Walpurgis!


----------



## alota

oskari said:


> Merry Walpurgis!



O know cidra but walpurgis???


----------



## Oskari

alota said:


> O know cidra but walpurgis???


 
  
 Or First of May (well, largely last of April) or _vappu_, as we call it. One of the holidays when being entirely sober could be considered a breach of etiquette, at least in Finland. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walpurgis_Night
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walpurgis_Night#Finland


----------



## alota

oskari said:


> Or First of May (well, largely last of April) or _vappu_, as we call it. One of the holidays when being entirely sober could be considered a breach of etiquette, at least in Finland.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i saw.
 happy walpurgis to you.
 and to be supportive, i´m drunk!!!


----------



## alota

and supremus!!!! ahahahahahahahahahahah!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Last evening's wine, song, and spaghetti alla puttanesca along with a glorious San Francisco sunset.


----------



## alota

clayton sf said:


> Last evening's wine, song, and spaghetti alla puttanesca along with a glorious San Francisco sunset.


 

 Beautiful place and stunning food.
 i want!!!
 somebody give me a ticket to my land
 opps.my great mystake.
 you spoke about S. francisco in CA.
 i thinked S. Francisco in Umbria(Italy)


----------



## daigo

alota said:


> Beautiful place and stunning food.
> i want!!!
> somebody give me a ticket to my land
> opps.my great mystake.
> ...


 
  
 I've been to Umbria in Italy and comparing the two, San Francisco in CA is a bit different


----------



## alota

daigo said:


> I've been to Umbria in Italy and comparing the two, San Francisco in CA is a bit different


 

 i believe you


----------



## Clayton SF

What a lovely landscape.
 I am listening to my GlennAmp OTL.
 Before bedtime.
 Good night.


----------



## 2359glenn

That is one of the oldest ones the newer ones are much bigger.


----------



## rnadell

And here is one of the newer ones with my latest choice of tubes, lovin this amp!!!!


clayton sf said:


> What a lovely landscape.
> I am listening to my GlennAmp OTL.
> Before bedtime.
> Good night.


----------



## jc9394

rnadell said:


>


 
  
  
 Copy cat...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  see you finally got a pair of GEC...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

good tube choice...


----------



## rnadell

jc9394 said:


> Copy cat...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


dubstep girl said:


> good tube choice...


 

 I think I finally found the sound I am looking for. Thanks to both of you for your info.
 I think for now the only tube I would really like to try is the u52. And JC it didn't cost
 me much to find out you were on the right track with the 6080's.


----------



## jc9394

What headphone you are using? Thus is my go to tubes combo for HD800. Due to travel, I did not get a chance to listen to this for over three weeks. :mad: Finally get some time today power this baby up.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> What headphone you are using? Thus is my go to tubes combo for HD800. Due to travel, I did not get a chance to listen to this for over three weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Let's see that playlist!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Let's see that playlist!




HK pop, Diva 6. Should keep me busy til early morning.

http://www.yesasia.com/us/diva-6-6cd/1024178095-0-0-0-en/info.html


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> HK pop, Diva 6. Should keep me busy til early morning.
> 
> http://www.yesasia.com/us/diva-6-6cd/1024178095-0-0-0-en/info.html


 





 Where's um...what's her name again?!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Where's um...what's her name again?!




I will have a special date with Miss Mok tomorrow with either fine west lake dragon well or French bubbles.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I will have a special date with Miss Mok tomorrow with either fine west lake dragon well or French bubbles.


 
 I'm gonna tell Ma, I can't wait to meet my brother!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I'm gonna tell Ma, I can't wait to meet my brother!




I got some West Lake Dragon Well while I was in Shanghai last year and few bottles of Dom in the wine fridge, after all the continuous traveling last couple months, I think I deserve a quiet night with either special drinks.

We are like passing ships last few times I'm in west coast. I need to get in touch with DG next time in Chicago area...


----------



## jc9394

rnadell said:


> I think I finally found the sound I am looking for. Thanks to both of you for your info.
> I think for now the only tube I would really like to try is the u52. And JC it didn't cost
> me much to find out you were on the right track with the 6080's.




Did you notice the GEC have burning smell for the 20 hours? I think the label's glue causing the smell.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I got some West Lake Dragon Well while I was in Shanghai last year and few bottles of Dom in the wine fridge, after all the continuous traveling last couple months, I think I deserve a quiet night with either special drinks.
> 
> We are like passing ships last few times I'm in west coast. I need to get in touch with DG next time in Chicago area...


 
 The Dragonwell I have in the cupboard may be more pedestrian 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but enjoyed some all of last week. Yesterday, enjoyed some French bubbly. Today, it was Jasmine Dragon Phoenix Pearls. And after the conclusion of tomorrow's 65 mile bike ride, a quart of ice-cold Chocolate milk for _recovery_ purposes. 
  
 Though, tomorrow's dinner escapes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 me...


----------



## rnadell

jc9394 said:


> Did you notice the GEC have burning smell for the 20 hours? I think the label's glue causing the smell.


 

 I am using the T1's, they work really well with this amp. Yes I did notice the smell, wondered what it was.
 I only have an hour or so with these tubes, did you notice a difference with break in.???


----------



## Ultrainferno

Since yesterday my 300B sounds like it was going to take of to Mars any second. It just started doing it when I was listening to my new headphone.
 It seems to be/sound like something is shaking inside, and when I push the top cover behind the tubes, it goes dead silent.
  
 Glenn I made a video and I'm trying to convert it so I can send it to you by pm for some problem solving. I suppose the good thing is I will finally use one of my other amps again


----------



## Silent One

Hope it turns out to be a simple fix.


----------



## jc9394

rnadell said:


> I am using the T1's, they work really well with this amp. Yes I did notice the smell, wondered what it was.
> I only have an hour or so with these tubes, did you notice a difference with break in.???




Nope, my tubes are break in already by DG.


----------



## GrindingThud

Been quiet herd for a while. I found this interesting music available for download:
http://www.alternesia.com/download.html


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone heard these 2A3's before? I'm wondering what they sound like. 
  
http://f-lite.ru/lfp/s018.radikal.ru/i515/1405/5a/336a783257f6.jpg/htm


----------



## parbaked

Yesterday Clayton and I enjoyed a Tuscan style lunch on the deck at Kachina Vineyards in Sonoma.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 We drank Sangiovese Rose, Nancy's French style (Sur Lie) Chardonnay, a rare Charbono, 2 cabernets (including a 2004 from the Library that the winemaker donated) and finished with Zinfandel Port.
 The weather was perfect...it was a fine afternoon! 
 I was having too much fun to take any pics, but this was the aftermath:


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> Yesterday we had a Tuscan style lunch with Clayton on the deck at Kachina Vineyards in Sonoma.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I want to move to SF now...


----------



## punit

Well I wanted to buy a  TOTL OTL   for my HD 800 & after some research & helpful advice by some Head-Fi members, I am on the waiting list for a Glenn OTL. I already have a name for my unborn amp, it will be called "TOTO" (short for TOTL OTL)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

punit said:


> Well I wanted to buy a  TOTL OTL   for my HD 800 & after some research & helpful advice by some Head-Fi members, I am on the waiting list for a Glenn OTL. I already have a name for my unborn amp, it will be called "TOTO" (short for TOTL OTL)


----------



## rnadell

punit said:


> Well I wanted to buy a  TOTL OTL   for my HD 800 & after some research & helpful advice by some Head-Fi members, I am on the waiting list for a Glenn OTL. I already have a name for my unborn amp, it will be called "TOTO" (short for TOTL OTL)


 
 Great name, and enjoy the wait. You won't be sorry.


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> Well I wanted to buy a  TOTL OTL   for my HD 800 & after some research & helpful advice by some Head-Fi members, I am on the waiting list for a Glenn OTL. I already have a name for my unborn amp, it will be called "TOTO" (short for TOTL OTL)




Nice, the best part is you have the tubes for it already.


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> I want to move to SF now...


 
 ...then we might have to also open the single malt...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 yes, that is Clayton within arm's reach of the bottle...just in case...


----------



## jc9394

You are not helping...


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> punit said:
> 
> 
> > Well I wanted to buy a  TOTL OTL   for my HD 800 & after some research & helpful advice by some Head-Fi members, I am on the waiting list for a Glenn OTL. I already have a name for my unborn amp, it will be called "TOTO" (short for TOTL OTL)


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Yesterday Clayton and I enjoyed a Tuscan style lunch on the deck at Kachina Vineyards in Sonoma.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wines weren't the only thing well chosen, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 take _Aftermath_ for example...


----------



## kvtaco17

Paid Glenn today... I'm officially one of you!


----------



## punit

What are you getting?


----------



## kvtaco17

punit said:


> What are you getting?


 
 An amp of course lol


----------



## punit

Duh!  Which one ?


----------



## kvtaco17

punit said:


> Duh!  Which one ?


 
 You'll see when it gets here and I unbox it


----------



## Silent One




----------



## gibosi

kvtaco17 said:


> Paid Glenn today... I'm officially one of you!


 
  
 Somehow you managed to squeeze in ahead of me! (>_<)  lol


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> ...then we might have to also open the single malt...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was just eying it, 'sall.
 jc9394--your name came up numerous times at the table and under the table too. I think.


----------



## Neogeo333

Oh boy, it looks like Glenn gonna be busy for a while with so many builds .  And im not help either
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 This is all silver wire wound.  Custom 3.5k ohm to 40 ohm.  Double c-core amorphous.


----------



## kvtaco17

gibosi said:


> Somehow you managed to squeeze in ahead of me! (>_<)  lol


 
 I asked just after the first of the year to be fair


----------



## gibosi

kvtaco17 said:


> I asked just after the first of the year to be fair


 
  
 Oh! I didn't realize that you got in line way ahead of me.... Cheers


----------



## kvtaco17

gibosi said:


> Oh! I didn't realize that you got in line way ahead of me.... Cheers


 
 my only secret!


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> I was just eying it, 'sall.
> jc9394--your name came up numerous times at the table and under the table too. I think.


 
  
 oh man, i would love this...


----------



## jc9394

neogeo333 said:


> Oh boy, it looks like Glenn gonna be busy for a while with so many builds .  And im not help either
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 good thing is i'm busy lately, else i will start pm glenn for a 300B...


----------



## Neogeo333

Who told you it was for a 300b amp?  3.5k could also be used for 2a3 or 807 amp too.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cmon JC it just a matter of a simple pm to Glenn.   You've been at it for a while.  Get it.


----------



## jc9394

i know but it will be sitting on my desk to a while before i have time to turn it on plus it will take a detour to either LA or Chicago first... maybe later this year when my work wind down a bit.


----------



## kvtaco17

I'm just gonna leave this here...
  

  
 Glenn sent me this to look at while I wait lol


----------



## Neogeo333

Sweet looking amp KV.  The hardest part is always the waiting game.  Your gonna like the amp very much.  Can it take 6336 too?


----------



## kvtaco17

neogeo333 said:


> Sweet looking amp KV.  The hardest part is always the waiting game.  Your gonna like the amp very much.  Can it take 6336 too?


 
I'm actually not sure, I was just going back and forth with Glenn about rolling options.
  
 Yes


----------



## alota

clayton sf said:


> I was just eying it, 'sall.
> jc9394--your name came up numerous times at the table and under the table too. I think.


 
 i love this whisky but never tried the alba reserve.
 i´m curious


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have to admit I emptied a couple of bottles this weekend, the girlfriend wanted to make soap dispensers out of them so I gladly helped her. Gone are the Tomatin 12 and the good old Jack D. I tried the JD Tennessee Honey yesterday as well and was pleasantly surprised. I do still prefer the classic Rusty Nail though.
  
 Any advise for a good soft american bourbon? I need to buy some new bottles


----------



## alota

ultrainferno said:


> I have to admit I emptied a couple of bottles this weekend, the girlfriend wanted to make soap dispensers out of them so I gladly helped her. Gone are the Tomatin 12 and the good old Jack D. I tried the JD Tennessee Honey yesterday as well and was pleasantly surprised. I do still prefer the classic Rusty Nail though.
> 
> Any advise for a good soft american bourbon? I need to buy some new bottles


 

 we should organize an european álcool meet:
 wines, whisky, beers, cognac, ouzo,etc.etc.etc.
 i make my homemade limoncello!!!!
 45º of frozen lemon


----------



## Clayton SF

I got a package of goodies delivered to me yesterday from Ultra!


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> I got a package of goodies delivered to me yesterday from Ultra!


 
  
  
 you mistyped "month", should be "days"


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> you mistyped "month", should be "days"


 
  
 Ah.... Spell Check did it, not me.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Enjoy! I would ship more if it wasnt so damn expensive


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Enjoy! I would ship more if it wasnt so damn expensive


 
  
 I appreciate the thought and the postage.


----------



## kvtaco17

It's arrived!


----------



## kvtaco17

This thing seriously rock right out of the box... I'm jumping between my HD800's and PS500's and literally had a wow moment with both... this thing seems likes it sounds good with anything!


----------



## punit

You went from Schiit Lyr to Glenn OTL my friend, you gonna have lots of WOW moments.


----------



## jc9394

Just wait til you are rolling tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...it still wow me every time I turn it on.  Congrats...


----------



## kvtaco17

jc9394 said:


> Just wait til you are rolling tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Already messing around with 6SN7/6F8G's lol... Glenn sent me 2 rectifiers a RCA 5AW4 and a GE 3DG4... any opinions on where to start? I have the RCA in now and it sounds good.


----------



## jc9394

CV593, TS 6SN7 BGRP, and GEC 6080.  My favorite combos, it is glued to the amp for couple months.


----------



## kvtaco17

What would a new amp be without low light tube pics?


----------



## longbowbbs

Awesome new amp! What are you going to name it?


----------



## kvtaco17

longbowbbs said:


> Awesome new amp! What are you going to name it?


 
  
 I will name her "Old Gregg"


----------



## longbowbbs

That is the WIERDEST video I have EVER seen.......Where did you find that?


----------



## Silent One

Am I gonna wanna look?


----------



## longbowbbs

10 of the strangest minutes I have spent.....


----------



## GrindingThud

Ummmmm...now how am I supposed to "unsee" that..... 
Whatever you do...don't google mangina 


longbowbbs said:


> That is the WIERDEST video I have EVER seen.......Where did you find that? :eek:


----------



## longbowbbs

grindingthud said:


> Ummmmm...now how am I supposed to "unsee" that.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Am I gonna wanna look?


 
 No!


longbowbbs said:


> 10 of the strangest minutes I have spent.....


 
 I lasted 1:43...


----------



## longbowbbs

parbaked said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > Am I gonna wanna look?
> ...


 
 Smarter than me!


----------



## GrindingThud

It kind of grows on you after a while.....



parbaked said:


> No!
> I lasted 1:43...


----------



## kvtaco17

I lived with a girl when I was in college and she was obsessed with that show... I'm sleep deprived and it just kinda happened lol

anyone want some baileys?


----------



## wotts

kvtaco17 said:


> I lived with a girl when I was in college and she was obsessed with that show... I'm sleep deprived and it just kinda happened lol
> 
> *anyone want some baileys?*




I have three fingers of Beer Barrel Bourbon (New Holland) going here!

Congrats on the amp. I love my Glenn OTL.


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> That is the WIERDEST video I have EVER seen.......Where did you find that?


 
 that was old greg from "the mighty boosh"


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> No!
> I lasted 1:43...


 
  
 you lasted much longer than me...


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm going to have a look now...


----------



## magiccabbage

This is my favourite scene ¬


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> This is my favourite scene ¬




 Rockin' the blue leisure suit.....


----------



## punit

longbowbbs said:


> Rockin' the blue leisure suit.....


 

 In India we call it the Safari Suit. Some old timers still wear it, a fashion relic of the British colonial era.


----------



## dminches

Get them while they are "cheap" https://tubedepot.com/products/kr-audio-300b-balloon


----------



## 2359glenn

How do the KRs compare to the Japanese  300Bs you have


----------



## daigo

dminches said:


> Get them while they are "cheap" https://tubedepot.com/products/kr-audio-300b-balloon


 
  
 That's really tempting.  Around the same price for a pair of EML mesh 300B that I had been considering.


----------



## Ultrainferno

"Cheap" is a big word


----------



## dminches

Glenn. I haven't listened to the KRs much since I put the Japanese ones in when I got them. They sounded great when I did use them. Or maybe that was the amp!


----------



## Clayton SF

dminches said:


> Get them while they are "cheap" https://tubedepot.com/products/kr-audio-300b-balloon


 
  
 They cost more than my Glenn Amp OTL. I'll stick with stock JJs in my monos.  I'm happy with the OTL; especially with my D7000.


----------



## daigo

dminches said:


> Glenn. I haven't listened to the KRs much since I put the Japanese ones in when I got them. They sounded great when I did use them. Or maybe that was the amp!


 
  
 Do you mean the Takatsuki 300B's?  Quite a few fine 300B's you have there!


----------



## 2359glenn

daigo said:


> Do you mean the Takatsuki 300B's?  Quite a few fine 300B's you have there!


 

 Yes that is the one I couldn't remember the name at the time.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> CV593, TS 6SN7 BGRP, and GEC 6080.  My favorite combos, it is glued to the amp for couple months.




+1 one of my favorite combos as well!!

At this point, I would also recommend CV593 over the U52 unless totally maxing tubes out since the sound is 95% the same and costs 8 times less and is much easier to come by.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> +1 one of my favorite combos as well!!
> 
> At this point, I would also recommend CV593 over the U52 unless totally maxing tubes out since the sound is 95% the same and costs 8 times less and is much easier to come by.


 
  
  
 How you doing?  Was intended to ping you last time in Chicago, was in town for few hours walking along Chicago river but it was raining like crazy.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> How you doing?  Was intended to ping you last time in Chicago, was in town for few hours walking along Chicago river but it was raining like crazy.


 
  
 i've been pretty good. Same old basically, just work and trying to save money for stuff.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> i've been pretty good. Same old basically, just work and trying to save money for stuff.


 
 I like your style - saveandbuygoodies!


----------



## magiccabbage

How many Watts does Glenn's 300b put into a speaker?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I think clayton and mine does 15W. I think


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> I think clayton and mine does 15W. I think


 
 thats good - better than the WA5's 9


----------



## listen4joy

how much glenn amp cost? any details? how it pairs with hd800? which tubes good for it... there is 647 pages come on... give me so info i will not going to read all these pages


----------



## Ultrainferno

But that's just all the fun? Sometimes I spend days reading just one thread. Read and learn


----------



## kvtaco17

listen4joy said:


> how much glenn amp cost? any details? how it pairs with hd800? which tubes good for it... there is 647 pages come on... give me so info i will not going to read all these pages


 
 1. why not ask the builder?
 2. Its good, we like pizza and scotch here...
 3. very good... kinda like pizza and scotch!
 4. A lot of tubes work well, it depends on what kinda sound you're chasing...
  
  
 5. 647 pages of pure amazing... I'm mostly caught up on this thing and reading through from post 1 was worth the journey.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I think clayton and mine does 15W. I think


 
  
 I don't remember what Glenn's specs were for his mono blocks but they sound really great now that I am using my Decware CSP2+ as a preamp with his 300B mono blocks. I'm really happy with the sound.


----------



## kvtaco17

Spoiler: Warning: NSFW PRONZ!



Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I don't remember what Glenn's specs were for his mono blocks but they sound really great now that I am using my Decware CSP2+ as a preamp with his 300B mono blocks. I'm really happy with the sound.








>


 
 Glorious!


----------



## parbaked

Clayton needs a wide angle lens so we can see all his stuff!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Clayton needs a wide angle lens so we can see all his stuff!


 

 Since you asked. My tiny living room is a mess today. I used a soldering iron for the first time in my life. That thing is hot.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Since you asked. My tiny living room is a mess today. I used a soldering iron for the first time in my life. That thing is hot.


 





 A Great Shot!
  
 But... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 can we learn a bit more about the soldering iron adventure?


----------



## Silent One

listen4joy said:


> how much glenn amp cost? any details? how it pairs with hd800? which tubes good for it... there is 647 pages come on... give me so info i will not going to read all these pages


 
 Welcome to _arguably_ the BEST Thread on Head-Fi! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Try sending 2359glenn a Private Message with respect to custom build options, price ect. And the 647 pages? Once you get your order in, your enthusiasm will make the reading a breeze!


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> A Great Shot!
> 
> But...
> 
> ...


 
  
 I needed to replace the stepped attenuators in each of the blocks. They were getting a bit noisy. But I decided that instead of replacing them I would bypass them altogether. Just an experiment. So under Glenn's excellent guidance and instruction, I bypassed each stepped attenuator in each amp by snipping a few wires and soldering a new wire and resistor. I am supercharged that I soldered it all by myself. Well, okay, my neighbor helped by holding the wire. I don't think he ever wants to see me again. I got him nervous. All is done and well though.
  
 Now I'm ready to help with parbaked's amp.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Welcome to _arguably_ the BEST Thread on Head-Fi!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It is the best thread on headfi followed closely by the "On a mission to like Jazz" thread. I love that thread.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> I needed to replace the stepped attenuators in each of the blocks. They were getting a bit noisy. But I decided that instead of replacing them I would bypass them altogether. Just an experiment. So under Glenn's excellent guidance and instruction, I bypassed each stepped attenuator in each amp by snipping a few wires and soldering a new wire and resistor. I am supercharged that I soldered it all by myself. Well, okay, my neighbor helped by holding the wire. I don't think he ever wants to see me again. I got him nervous. All is done and well though.
> 
> Now I'm ready to help with parbaked's amp.


 
 Very inspiring!




 Our fellow member and former neighbor in the Eastbay 'shipsupt' encouraged me a few years back to pick up the iron and get busy but...I still need to make that purchase.


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> Very inspiring!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It was $11 at Radio Shack! This is the one I got: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062758
  
 I tell you, I have more respect for Glenn now that I see how difficult it is to hold solder, an iron, and a beer. J/K no beer involved.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> It is the best thread on headfi followed closely by the "On a mission to like Jazz" thread. I love that thread.


 
 Yes, moar Jazz! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I received my 2359glenn OTL amp, Jazz selections dominated the playlist as I sat back to get acquainted.


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm listening to Sketches of Spain, Miles Davis, vinyl on Glenn's monos. Niiiiiiiiice and lovely.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> It was $11 at Radio Shack! This is the one I got: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062758
> 
> I tell you, I have more respect for Glenn now that I see how difficult it is to hold solder, an iron, and a beer. J/K no beer involved.


 
 Actually, it wasn't a soldering iron I was waiting to purchase but... courage! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Never found any on sale, so I guess I should just go ahead and buy the iron and get with it!
  
 I too, have more respect for what he's dealing with. Learning to use an iron could go a long way from having to ship stuff back.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> I'm listening to Sketches of Spain, Miles Davis, vinyl on Glenn's monos. Niiiiiiiiice and lovely.


 
 This description could easily see me giving instructions from the back seat of a Prius Taxi..._"This is the block but I forgot his address, it's the building that has Miles Davis emanating from the window!" _


----------



## kazsud

clayton sf said:


> Since you asked. My tiny living room is a mess today. I used a soldering iron for the first time in my life. That thing is hot.




Cowabunga


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Yes, moar Jazz!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


clayton sf said:


> I'm listening to Sketches of Spain, Miles Davis, vinyl on Glenn's monos. Niiiiiiiiice and lovely.


 
 I am enthralled by this album at the moment ¬
  

  
 Its my Favorite album of the decade - easily! Here are some tracks from it ¬
  

  
 
  
 ENJOY!!


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> I am enthralled by this album at the moment ¬
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, thanks to you and others, I've been diggin' this offering last 30 days...


----------



## Neogeo333

clayton sf said:


> It was $11 at Radio Shack! This is the one I got: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062758
> 
> I tell you, I have more respect for Glenn now that I see how difficult it is to hold solder, an iron, and a beer. J/K no beer involved.


 
 Who said men can't muti task?


----------



## musicman59

clayton sf said:


> Since you asked. My tiny living room is a mess today. I used a soldering iron for the first time in my life. That thing is hot.


 
 I love the pictures at the far right. 12 years ago when I started dating my now wife I made a CD for her and I used that picture as the art cover for it.


----------



## Silent One

musicman59 said:


> I love the pictures at the far right. 12 years ago when I started dating my now wife I made a CD for her and I used that picture as the art cover for it.


----------



## Xenophon

I'm at p. 287 at the moment.  And just so you guys know:  you're killing me with all the biscuits/food/Greece/booze sidelines 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 Good thing I don't require much sleep....CD of the day:  Henry Purcell, Fantazias & In Nomines by les basses Réunies, Agogique, 2012.  Very, very nice performance.


----------



## Clayton SF

Look out! I got my tickets to Amsterdam. Once again, the European continent will not be the same. Well at least part of it. I am leaving in August. Ultra, pack your bags. If I decide to lug along an amp again, which will it be? I will have 85 days to decide.


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Look out! I got my tickets to Amsterdam. Once again, the European continent will not be the same. Well at least part of it. I am leaving in August. Ultra, pack your bags. If I decide to lug along an amp again, which will it be? I will have 85 days to decide.


 

 We have to schedule going to Europe at the same time
 I leave for Europe in 38 days


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Look out! I got my tickets to Amsterdam. Once again, the European continent will not be the same. Well at least part of it. I am leaving in August. Ultra, pack your bags. If I decide to lug along an amp again, which will it be? I will have 85 days to decide.


 
  
 Nice C! I'm sick at home with the flue and fever, let me get back to you with the dates I'll come to Amsterdam for drinks, food and a good chat (2 days, 1 night)
 I've always been interested in the TABOO and the CSP2


----------



## jc9394

Ultra, hope you feel better soon.  
  
 Clayton, guess I will missed you again at SF.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Nice C! I'm sick at home with the flue and fever, let me get back to you with the dates I'll come to Amsterdam for drinks, food and a good chat (2 days, 1 night)
> I've always been interested in the TABOO and the CSP2
 
  
 But those are 110v.
 You should have quit after beer #20. 
 Get better soon.
 I can't wait to see you and S again!
  


jc9394 said:


> Ultra, hope you feel better soon.
> Clayton, guess I will missed you again at SF.


 
  
 The key is under the Welcome mat next to the flower pot.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> But those are 110v.


 
  
 I have adapters


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > Look out! I got my tickets to Amsterdam. Once again, the European continent will not be the same. Well at least part of it. I am leaving in August. Ultra, pack your bags. If I decide to lug along an amp again, which will it be? I will have 85 days to decide.
> ...


 
 Nice choice! Great as a combo or individually.


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> Clayton, guess I will missed you again at SF.


 
 I'll be here jc...we can play!
 I'm trying to convince Clayton to give me a key so I can solder his amps water his plants


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> I'll be here jc...we can play!
> I'm trying to convince Clayton to give me a key so I can solder his amps water his plants


 
  
 Yes! And parbaked has a very large playroom (and kitchen).


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> I'll be here jc...we can play!
> I'm trying to convince Clayton to give me a key so I can solder his amps water his plants


 
  
 Sweet, will pm you after I confirmed the trip.
  


clayton sf said:


> Yes! And parbaked has a very large playroom (and kitchen).


 
  
  
 I like playing in the kitchen too...


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> Sweet, will pm you after I confirmed the trip.


 
 DOIT! Hopefully Clayton will also be here...he's not gone the whole month.


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> DOIT! Hopefully Clayton will also be here...he's not gone the whole month.


 
  
  
 Tentative August 24-29 (VMworld at Moscone Center), need to make sure it do not conflict with my current projects.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Tentative August 24-29 (VMworld at Moscone Center), need to make sure it do not conflict with my current projects.


 
  
 Amsterdam August 12-25. I appoint parbaked Mixologist Maximist.
 Rachel calls...


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Amsterdam August 12-25. I appoint parbaked Mixologist Maximist.
> Rachel calls...


 
 I'll drink to that!
 When should we visit Miss R? 
 I am so thirsty....


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> I'll drink to that!
> When should we visit Miss R?
> I am so thirsty....


 
  
 This coming Thirsty Thursday okay? Or whenever convenient.
  
 I've got a pair of GZ34s in Glenn's monos.
 Very very warm. Big bass. Boom-y.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> This coming Thirsty Thursday okay? Or whenever convenient.


 
 Anytime is convenient for some TLC = tequila, laughter & Clayton!


----------



## jc9394

You SF boys have all the fun...not fair


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> You SF boys have all the fun...not fair


 
 Fair is fair. We've reserved a seats at parbaked's wet bar and audio bliss. Just drop on by. Thirsty Thursday happens every time we get thirsty so drop us a line, pencil us in, and we'll introduce you to Rachel. She loves vinyl (records).


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Fair is fair. We've reserved a seats at parbaked's wet bar and audio bliss. Just drop on by. Thirsty Thursday happens every time we get thirsty so drop us a line, pencil us in, and we'll introduce you to Rachel. She loves vinyl (records).




Will keep that in mind when ever I land my feet on SF...


----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> Fair is fair. We've reserved a seats at parbaked's wet bar and audio bliss. Just drop on by. Thirsty Thursday happens every time we get thirsty so drop us a line, pencil us in, and we'll introduce you to Rachel. She loves vinyl (records).


 
  
 I love Margarita & Margherita.......


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> I love Margarita & Margherita.......


 
  
 Don't tell Rachel... We're seeing her on Thirsty Thursday. And then off for a pizza adventure other than PizzaHacker.


----------



## rosgr63

I'll just think about you having a good time............


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> I'll just think about you having a good time............


 
 We will toast you my friend...as we always do!





 Happy Hour = $5 Margaritas = Big Trouble


----------



## parbaked

My little post office had a couple sheets of the Jimi Hendrix stamps so I got 'em.
 They did a nice job with these, making the sheet look like a 45 rpm single.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ We ought to tell Rachel about the JH stamps. She has played his music before while we were busy conversing pleasantly.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks S!!!!!!!!!
 T Rex for tonight's session Clayton


----------



## Ultrainferno

Have fun tonight guys!


----------



## gibosi

Even though it will be quite some time before my Glenn OTL will be built and shipped, I jumped the gun and bought a pair of 5998's. And then it occurred to me that I can roll these as a driver in my Little Dot. Sounds pretty good! lol


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Have fun tonight guys!


 
  
 We focused on the pizza. And the 6 margaritas we had between us before the beer and pizza.


----------



## alota

clayton sf said:


>


 
 
 P.S.: sung in neapolitan


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> We focused on the pizza. And the 6 margaritas we had between us before the beer and pizza.


 
  
 pizza and margaritas?  very nice combo...


----------



## Neogeo333

Anyone know whats the right procedure to do when by accident a type 83 tubes drops to the floor?  Im about to change one inside a Hickok 752 and wanted to know how bad it could be if that
 sucker breaks.


----------



## 2359glenn

I wouldn't worry to much
 If you think about it all florescent bulbs have Mercury in them. Including the new curly bulbs that
 replace incandescent bulbs.
 Don't drop it !!!!!!!


----------



## Neogeo333

I guess I'll just change it outdoors.  Thanks Glenn.


----------



## rosgr63

gibosi said:


> Even though it will be quite some time before my Glenn OTL will be built and shipped, I jumped the gun and bought a pair of 5998's. And then it occurred to me that I can roll these as a driver in my Little Dot. Sounds pretty good! lol


 
  
 It looks good, I bet it sounds good too.
  
  


clayton sf said:


> We focused on the pizza. And the 6 margaritas we had between us before the beer and pizza.


 
  
 Nice Clayton, very nice.....
  


neogeo333 said:


> Anyone know whats the right procedure to do when by accident a type 83 tubes drops to the floor?  Im about to change one inside a Hickok 752 and wanted to know how bad it could be if that
> sucker breaks.


 
  
  
 Remember George if you change the 83 you'll have to recalibrate the tester.
  
 I like the video Aldo!!!!!!!!


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> I like the video Aldo!!!!!!!!


 
 vintage like tubes and i


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> We focused on the pizza. And the 6 margaritas we had between us before the beer and pizza.


 
 The red sauce on our plates in their house-made Calabrian chili oil...nice!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> The red sauce on our plates in their house-made Calabrian chili oil...nice!


 

 Calabrian? How did you find that out? Thank goodness the husband of that woman didn't impale you with his sword. He had to save us from their Mindcraft building 7-year-old.


----------



## punit

clayton sf said:


> Calabrian? How did you find that out? Thank goodness the husband of that woman didn't impale you with his sword. He had to save us from their Mindcraft building 7-year-old.


 

 I presume you mean Minecraft. And yes I was quick to spot that as I also have a 7 year old.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Yep, Minecraft. I thought the word looked different.


----------



## gibosi

Glenn...  As the Zana Deux uses the 6C33C-B power triode as an output tube, and they are pretty cheap, I am wondering if you have considered using them instead of 6AS7G-types in one of your designs?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Glenn...  As the Zana Deux uses the 6C33C-B power triode as an output tube, and they are pretty cheap, I am wondering if you have considered using them instead of 6AS7G-types in one of your designs?


 

 I did but changed my mind I even have all the parts to build one.
 But I would have to use 4 in my circuit they have power hungry filaments
 Means big transformer for power very heavy to much to ship especially to Europe.
 Plus I don't think they sound that great and have noise issues.
 Plus you are stuck with that tube no rolling.


----------



## Clayton SF

How to enjoy a glass of 300B Champagne.


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> How to enjoy a glass of 300B Champagne.


 

 You must like worm champagne maybe hot


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> You must like worm champagne maybe hot


 
  
 Trust me, it only took 1 minute for me to position the glass, take the photo, drink it, and pour myself a cold cold refill. 
 Your amps sound absolutely beautiful. Like music to my ears....


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > You must like worm champagne maybe hot
> ...


 

 I am glad you still like the sound after all this time.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> How to enjoy a glass of 300B Champagne.


 






 French bubbly!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's some kinda Sunday you got going there, mister!


----------



## dminches

Selah sounds better than ever. Like good wine, it improves with age.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> I am glad you still like the sound after all this time.


 

 I am very happy with the sound.
  
 I play the monos 6 hours every week day (2 hours in the morning and 4 hours at night when I get home). And I play them 16 hours on Saturday and 16 hours on Sunday. That's a total of 62 hours a week. And when I turn it on at 6AM in the morning on the weekends, it stays on continuously for 16 hours. The sound is always great. Silky smooth with a touch of punch, depending on the recording.


----------



## Silent One

dminches said:


> Selah sounds better than ever. Like good wine, it improves with age.


 




  
 I still believe Selah should get a sister and come out to Cali.


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> dminches said:
> 
> 
> > Selah sounds better than ever. Like good wine, it improves with age.
> ...


 

 Common SO buy one you won't be dissapointed.


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> I am very happy with the sound.
> 
> I play the monos 6 hours every week day (2 hours in the morning and 4 hours at night when I get home). And I play them 16 hours on Saturday and 16 hours on Sunday. That's a total of 62 hours a week. And when I turn it on at 6AM in the morning on the weekends, it stays on continuously for 16 hours. The sound is always great. Silky smooth with a touch of punch, depending on the recording.


 
 I'm drooling here - i think i asked you this before but what is the sensitivity on those baffle speakers you have? They are lovely


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Common SO buy one you won't be dissapointed.


 





 Ok...I'm in!
  





 Tho I gotta t'ing for mono blocks. If last year is any indication, it seemed your best work emerged from the studio AFTER you returned from Greece! My savings should coincide with your return. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Will PM you to get a better idea on how much cash to stuff in the tea tins.


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Common SO buy one you won't be dissapointed.
> ...


 

 It is what you want in it will determine what it costs?


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> It is what you want in it will determine what it costs?


 
 Eh glenn can a Lundahl transformer be used to power 2 2A3's - say like Dminches amp but swap the 300b's out for 2A3's? 
  
 Just wondering.


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes but allot less power then a 300B  3.5 watts vrs 8 watts


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> Yes but allot less power then a 300B  3.5 watts vrs 8 watts


 
 oh - is there any way of getting more watts by using different drivers or rectifiers? Can a 2A3 ever produce close to the watts of a 300b?


----------



## 2359glenn

No you would have to parallel 3 of them and that degrades the sound better off with a cheep 300B


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> No you would have to parallel 3 of them and that degrades the sound better off with a cheep 300B


 
 And would it be possible to have a 300b amp where the slots for that tube could also be used for 2A3's so you could switch between the 2? Use the 2A3 for high impedance and the 300b's for low and speaker's?


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> I'm drooling here - i think i asked you this before but what is the sensitivity on those baffle speakers you have? They are lovely


 
  
 I like them very much and they're affordable. At least if you live in the United States.
 Shipping can kill the deal. Ultra paid 5x more for postage when he shipped me a boxful of candies from Belgium.
  
*Omen Quick Specs* Height: 36” [91.5cm]
 Footprint: 12 x 12” [30.5 x 30.5cm]
 Weight: 53 pounds [24kg] each
 Bandwidth: 35 – 25kHz
 Efficiency: 97 dB-SPL 1W, 1m
 Impedance: 12 ohm
 Power Amp Range: 4 – 300 watt


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > No you would have to parallel 3 of them and that degrades the sound better off with a cheep 300B
> ...


 

 Yes but costly It would have to switch the power supply voltage  2A3=250volts    300B= 450volts


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> Yes but costly It would have to switch the power supply voltage  2A3=250volts    300B= 450volts


 
 its interesting that it can be done. Would it add more than 500 dollars to the amp - maybe 1000, or way more than that? What would have to be done to the innards - a different transformer for each tube set or just more winding's? 
  
 PM me if you don't want to post up here about prices.


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> its interesting that it can be done. Would it add more than 500 dollars to the amp - maybe 1000, or way more than that? What would have to be done to the innards - a different transformer for each tube set or just more winding's?
> 
> PM me if you don't want to post up here about prices.


 
  
 It would be cheaper if you flew here and spent the week at my place in San Francisco listening to Glenn's amps. Added bonus--a tour of the city and pizza with parbaked, Rachel and the rest of the people in the Mission District during Happy Hour at El Amigo.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> its interesting that it can be done. Would it add more than 500 dollars to the amp - maybe 1000, or way more than that? What would have to be done to the innards - a different transformer for each tube set or just more winding's?
> 
> PM me if you don't want to post up here about prices.


 
  
 think WA234


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes but costly It would have to switch the power supply voltage  2A3=250volts    300B= 450volts
> ...


 

 Probably less then $500 but not much less. The filament also has to be droped to 2.5 volts.
 I don't know if there will be a improvement in SQ going from 300B to 2A3.
 Actually it would be easyer to use 6A3s same tube with 6.3 volt heaters and I think cheaper too.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > its interesting that it can be done. Would it add more than 500 dollars to the amp - maybe 1000, or way more than that? What would have to be done to the innards - a different transformer for each tube set or just more winding's?
> ...


 

 Allot cheaper then that.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm on holiday this week but I need to finish some work urgently so I'm locking myself in my office the whole day. Which also is my listening room. What a coincidence! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 300B Glenn Amp, here I come!


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> Probably less then $500 but not much less. The filament also has to be droped to 2.5 volts.
> I don't know if there will be a improvement in SQ going from 300B to 2A3.
> Actually it would be easyer to use 6A3s same tube with 6.3 volt heaters and I think cheaper too.


 
 I was thinking to use LCD headphones with the 300b's and HD800 with the 2A3's but you think it would sound the same regardless?


----------



## Silent One

@ Ultrainferno


----------



## parbaked

magiccabbage said:


> I was thinking to use LCD headphones with the 300b's and HD800 with the 2A3's but you think it would sound the same regardless?


 
 I'm thinking, if you want to use 300b and 2A3 tubes, you will be happiest with two amps...


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Probably less then $500 but not much less. The filament also has to be droped to 2.5 volts.
> ...


 

 It will not sound the same but I don't see a big improvement in using a 2A3/6A3
 I personally like 300Bs I don't see the point in less power. The 45 , 2A3 , 300B
 are all great sounding tubes.
 In my system I use all DHTs for amplification. The only tube that is indirect heated.
 is a 6BL7/6BX7 used as a cathode follower on the output of my #26 preamp.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I'm on holiday this week but I need to finish some work urgently so I'm locking myself in my office the whole day. Which also is my listening room. What a coincidence!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Stay there and keep those amps on; I'm coming over...


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Stay there and keep those amps on; I'm coming over...


 
  
 I'm 7 hours into my session, I think I have one hour left in me.
  

  
 Glenn, as you can see I have removed the feet. they just have 4 tiny metal bases now as feet. and guess what. no more weird humming! I think it was something inside the feet that was shaking. It's been quiet now since this morning.
  
 That tiny blue Resonessence DAC is incredibly good btw!


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > Stay there and keep those amps on; I'm coming over...
> ...




It may have been the rubber feet allowed the transformer viberations in the chassis.


----------



## rosgr63

Feel the Vibration - Boy George
  
 Good Vibrations - Marky Mark
  
 Vibrations - Roy Ayers


----------



## jc9394

Playing with new light setup...


----------



## Ultrainferno

C! Look! Mister D. and Friday have Glenn Amp friends!!


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Feel the Vibration - Boy George
> 
> Good Vibrations - Marky Mark
> 
> Vibrations - Roy Ayers


 
  
  


jc9394 said:


> Playing with new light setup...


 
 Between seeing Roy Ayers and new iron, I'm inspired to stay up tonight!


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> Playing with new light setup...


 
 Amazing pics - stunning clarity! What lenses did you have on?


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> Amazing pics - stunning clarity! What lenses did you have on?


 
  
  
 Thanks, it is Nikon 85mm


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> Thanks, it is Nikon 85mm


 
 I have wanted one of those for a while! I need to spend money on other types of glass though.
  
 Is it an f1.8?


----------



## jc9394

f/1.4G


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> f/1.4G


 
 Even nicer ya dirt!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> C! Look! Mister D. and Friday have Glenn Amp friends!!


 

 Yay! ...


----------



## Brendanz

ultrainferno said:


> I'm 7 hours into my session, I think I have one hour left in me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hey how does the 300B amp sounds like ? Is it good for jazz and classic rock ?


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Thanks, it is Nikon 85mm


 
 How 'bout using said lens to photograph the tea tins used to make the glass purchase.


----------



## Ultrainferno

brendanz said:


> Hey how does the 300B amp sounds like ? Is it good for jazz and classic rock ?


 
  
 I listen to a lot of different genres ans this 300b sounds gorgeous with all kinds. Do note that it is mainly for Planar Technology headphones.
 Detail, sound stage, dynamics, timbre: it is the best amp I have, and I have a couple 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously though, it's really great and Clayton and Dminches can confirm this.


----------



## Brendanz

I





ultrainferno said:


> I listen to a lot of different genres ans this 300b sounds gorgeous with all kinds. Do note that it is mainly for Planar Technology headphones.
> Detail, sound stage, dynamics, timbre: it is the best amp I have, and I have a couple
> 
> Seriously though, it's really great and Clayton and Dminches can confirm this.
> ...


----------



## Ultrainferno

First of all it is a 300B sound. It is a level up from the WA6SE, it's one of the best amps I have heard with my LCD-2
 It isn't overly warm. It's got the mix just right between tube lushness and detail, clarity. It certainly is not bright. It's a hi end sound as it should be


----------



## Brendanz

ultrainferno said:


> First of all it is a 300B sound. It is a level up from the WA6SE, it's one of the best amps I have heard with my LCD-2
> It isn't overly warm. It's got the mix just right between tube lushness and detail, clarity. It certainly is not bright. It's a hi end sound as it should be




Hmm ..... Sounds quite tempting to order one. I like the fact that the amp has 300b tubes which are really good to roll with.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> How 'bout using said lens to photograph the tea tins used to make the glass purchase.


 
  
 your wish is my command...
  

  
 unfortunately, one have tea and other...
  

  
 And this one is especially for you SO...


----------



## punit

ultrainferno said:


> Do note that it is mainly for Planar Technology headphones.


 
 So HD 800 & T1 will not work well with it ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

punit said:


> So HD 800 & T1 will not work well with it ?


 
  
 You will hear it hum, it my amp anyway


----------



## parbaked

punit said:


> So HD 800 & T1 will not work well with it ?


 
 Glenn recommends one of his OTL designs for the  HD800..


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> Glenn recommends one of his OTL designs for the  HD800..




Highly recommended.


----------



## 2359glenn

punit said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > Do note that it is mainly for Planar Technology headphones.
> ...


 

 The amp I am building for you is fantastic with the HD800s
 I built it just for HD650s and HD800s but found with higher power output
 tubes it can drive anything.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Highly recommended.


 
  
 +1
  
 The Glenn OTL is VERY good with HD 800, about the same level as a WA2. The Glenn OTL has the advantage of being able to drive many different headphones, from TH-900s to power hungry Audeze and Hifiman as well as HD 800/T1/ etc...


----------



## 2359glenn

I have to get a experimental amp built that has no resistors or capacitors in the amp only
 output coupling caps. it will use rectifier tubes for cathode resistors no need for a nasty
 electrolytic bypass caps.  there are capacitors in the power supply though.
 I am running out of time to get this built.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> I have to get a experimental amp built that has no resistors or capacitors in the amp only
> output coupling caps. it will use rectifier tubes for cathode resistors no need for a nasty
> electrolytic bypass caps.  there are capacitors in the power supply though.
> I am running out of time to get this built.


 
 Why are you running out of time? I wonder what it will look like? Very interesting stuff. 
  
 What kind of tubes will it run?


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> I have to get a experimental amp built that has no resistors or capacitors in the amp only
> output coupling caps. it will use rectifier tubes for cathode resistors no need for a nasty
> electrolytic bypass caps.  there are capacitors in the power supply though.
> I am running out of time to get this built.


 
 Does it smell like Puttanesca?


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Glenn recommends one of his OTL designs for the  HD800..


 
  
 I'm glad that I have the OTL as well. I have 2 Glenn Amps--3 perhaps. If you count the monos as 2


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I have to get a experimental amp built that has no resistors or capacitors in the amp only
> ...


 

 Yes it does !!!!  Maybe cheese pies!


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I have to get a experimental amp built that has no resistors or capacitors in the amp only
> ...


 

 I would like to play with it while I am at Stavros house


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> I would like to play with it while I am at Stavros house


 
 Nice...I've made room for her twin so you have to come here too to play with me and Clayton (and Rachel)!
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






  
  
  
 I just picked up some local sweets for you and Stavros to nibble on:


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> Maybe cheese pies!


 
 How much are you thinking of cheese pies at work these days???


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to play with it while I am at Stavros house
> ...


 
 Do you guys have Greek food ?  Not just Greek food but Greek Food made by Stavros Mom!!!!!!!!
 It gets no better then that!!


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> Do you guys have Greek food ?  Not just Greek food but Greek Food made by Stavros Mom!!!!!!!!
> It gets no better then that!!


 
 No way we can compete with that!
 That's why you have to do both!


----------



## 2359glenn

OK I will see when I can come to see you guys.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Do you guys have Greek food ?  Not just Greek food but Greek Food made by Stavros Mom!!!!!!!!
> It gets no better then that!!


 
  
 She's got every meal planned.
 She doesn't know what more to do to please you and L!!!!!!!
 That's what she's talking about all the time, I am going crazy.
  


2359glenn said:


> I would like to play with it while I am at Stavros house


 
  
 No time to play with any audio gear, unless it's late at night and we can't sleep from eating too much.


----------



## Ultrainferno

We should do a big EU and USA meet at Stavros's place next year


----------



## rosgr63

Now you are talking Ultra.


----------



## 2359glenn

Sounds good to me.
 I will have to build something special to bring.


----------



## rosgr63

Ultra you better come a week early to arrange the tube display...........


----------



## Ultrainferno

I could do that. Poor girlfriend though


----------



## rosgr63

We'll keep S entertained don't worry.


----------



## 2359glenn

We can be boring for the girls. if I bring L she would have someone normal to talk to.
 If she speaks English.


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Ultra you better come a week early to arrange the tube display...........


 
 Clayton and I need 2 days and some bricks to make the pizza oven!


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> We'll keep S entertained don't worry.


 

 Between tubes and desserts, I could help S bake some great sweets. I've helped her before and I think I've passed as the baker's helper even though I overfilled most of the profiteroles . Then after that, I could join the guys for tubes and great bbq--Greek grilling. 
  
 I've now replaced my Decware CSP2+ preamp with my PrimaLuna Prologue Three preamp. All the amps now use GZ34 rectifiers. The Primaluna has two Mullard GZ34.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm serious though, if Stavros is up for it of course


----------



## 2359glenn

We will have to pick a date that all of us can make it.


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Clayton and I need 2 days and some bricks to make the pizza oven!


 
  
 I wonder if we can forage for nettles in Greece. We'll have to work on the pizza dough though.


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> Clayton and I need 2 days and some bricks to make the pizza oven!


 
  
 That's the easy part.
  


clayton sf said:


> Between tubes and desserts, I could help S bake some great sweets. I've helped her before and I think I've passed as the baker's helper even though I overfilled most of the profiteroles . Then after that, I could join the guys for tubes and great bbq--Greek grilling.
> 
> I've now replaced my Decware CSP2+ preamp with my PrimaLuna Prologue Three preamp. All the amps now use GZ34 rectifiers. The Primaluna has two Mullard GZ34.


 
  
  
 I'll be the bar tender.
 Not as good as Rachel but l'll do my best
  


ultrainferno said:


> I'm serious though, if Stavros is up for it of course


 
  
 Never tempt a devil.........
  


clayton sf said:


> I wonder if we can forage for nettles in Greece. We'll have to work on the pizza dough though.




  
 Clayton we'll just cut a few corners.
 The head torches are ready and waiting.........


----------



## Ultrainferno

Today I for the first time ever hooked up the He-500 to the speaker plugs of the 300B amp. There is some hum when the volume is at zero but this is the best I have heard the HE500 sound. This is simply awesome, I don't think I'll ever go back to using the headphone out for the Hifiman


----------



## 2359glenn

If I used Lundahl transformers in that amp there would be no hum.
 The hum is the output transformers picking up stray magnetic field from the power transformer.
 Other amps have this problem like the Leben.
 Lundahl transformers reject the hum and the power transformer puts out little magnetic field.
 But Lundahl transformers would have added $1000 to the price.
 Those transformers in your amp sound pretty good for there price.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> If I used Lundahl transformers in that amp there would be no hum.
> The hum is the output transformers picking up stray magnetic field from the power transformer.
> Other amps have this problem like the Leben.
> Lundahl transformers reject the hum and the power transformer puts out little magnetic field.
> ...


 
 Hi Glenn
  
 Can you or have you built 40 watt per channel tube amps for speakers? What would be your tube of choice?


----------



## 2359glenn

KT88 or 6550 really the same tube with 6sn7 drivers.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Today I for the first time ever hooked up the He-500 to the speaker plugs of the 300B amp. There is some hum when the volume is at zero but this is the best I have heard the HE500 sound. This is simply awesome, I don't think I'll ever go back to using the headphone out for the Hifiman


 

 Are you using the 16ohm output tap ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Are you using the 16ohm output tap ?


 
  
 I tried all of them and settled for the middle one


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> KT88 or 6550 really the same tube with 6sn7 drivers.


 
 Have you got any pictures of this design?


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> KT88 or 6550 really the same tube with 6sn7 drivers.


 
 Hence my Cary SLI-80's 40 Watts in Triode mode....


----------



## 2359glenn

longbowbbs said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > KT88 or 6550 really the same tube with 6sn7 drivers.
> ...


 

 I would make it triode or ultra linear much more power in ultra linear 60 to 80 watts.
 But sounds better in triode.
 I would try to get some GE6550s.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > 2359glenn said:
> ...


 
 I can switch it to Ultralinear and get 80 watts but I do prefer triode.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Are you using the 16ohm output tap ?
> ...


 

 That is the 8ohm tap


----------



## Neogeo333

My Dynaco ST-120 uses the KT-88 or KT-120.  Triode mode sounds better to my ears.  Gotta make a adapter for it to use headphones though.  
  
 Might be tempting to borrow a solder and get a female 4pin XLR.


----------



## punit

I use my Cayin A-70 T amp to drive HE 6 (with KT 88's) & I prefer the UltraL mode, gives more bass & wider SS (maybe because the HE 6 are current / power hungry).
  
 http://en.cayin.cn/product_view.asp?id=729
  
 I am using Svetlana Winged "C" KT 88's. Has anyone tried GEC KT 88's ? They are referred to as the best KT 88's available , am tempted but they cost nearly a grand for a quad set.


----------



## punit

Any comments on RCA vs TS 6336 tubes ? If there's not much diff then I will just go for RCA as I have seen it for sale cheaper than TS ? I plan to use these in the Glenn OTL.


----------



## Blackmore

Cant refer to all KT88, but GEC are simply fantastic tubes, used them in my PrimaLuna Prologue Two, day and night compared to Chinese made trash. Also tried famous TS 6550 Black Smooth plates and Grey with holes, but GEC are superior in every aspect. To my surprise, NOS Tesla EL34 were more than just good, I found them perfect for the price, but it was several years ago, not sure what are the prices today, but they sure worth to try, if your amp accept them of course. 
  
  
  
 Quote:


punit said:


> I use my Cayin A-70 T amp to drive HE 6 (with KT 88's) & I prefer the UltraL mode, gives more bass & wider SS (maybe because the HE 6 are current / power hungry).
> 
> http://en.cayin.cn/product_view.asp?id=729
> 
> I am using Svetlana Winged "C" KT 88's. Has anyone tried GEC KT 88's ? They are referred to as the best KT 88's available , am tempted but they cost nearly a grand for a quad set.


----------



## 2359glenn

punit said:


> Any comments on RCA vs TS 6336 tubes ? If there's not much diff then I will just go for RCA as I have seen it for sale cheaper than TS ? I plan to use these in the Glenn OTL.


 

 I would go with the RCA I had problems with TS arcing over


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> Any comments on RCA vs TS 6336 tubes ? If there's not much diff then I will just go for RCA as I have seen it for sale cheaper than TS ? I plan to use these in the Glenn OTL.


 
  
  
 Get the CENTRON 6336A.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-1-pair-CENTRON-6336A-tube-matched-square-getter-/251230431574?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a7e802956


----------



## punit

The 7236 Cetron is a rebranded TS (from my web research, I could be wrong). Is the 6336 Cetron also rebranded TS ?


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> The 7236 Cetron is a rebranded TS (from my web research, I could be wrong). Is the 6336 Cetron also rebranded TS ?


 
  
 That I'm not sure but I know Chatham is same as TS.


----------



## 2359glenn

JC is right TS - Chatham are the same they were what blew up on me maybe just a bad pair?
 I have GE , RCA , and Cetron that all look the same inside and work fine for me.


----------



## Skylab

Chatham was purchased by Tung-Sol, who was later purchased by Cetron, who was later purchased by Richardson Electronics.


----------



## jc9394

skylab said:


> Chatham was purchased by Tung-Sol, who was later purchased by Cetron, who was later purchased by Richardson Electronics.


 
  
 We can always count on Skylab for tube history... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I tried RCA and CETRON with Glenn's OTL and clearly the CETRON is much better.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Group buy anyone?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/231247466013
  
 I'll take 4


----------



## kazsud

ultrainferno said:


> Group buy anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I just bought two of these off etsy :/


----------



## Ultrainferno

kazsud said:


> I just bought two of these off etsy :/


 
  
 Probably it's me, but I have no clue what that means


----------



## kazsud

ultrainferno said:


> Probably it's me, but I have no clue what that means



 


https://www.etsy.com/listing/183930293/tung-sol-7236-dual-triode-vacuum-tube?ref=sr_gallery_1&ga_search_query=7236+TUBE&ga_order=most_relevant&ga_ship_to=US&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&show_panel=true


----------



## Ultrainferno

thank you. Never heard of Etsy. Excellent price as well. too bad they don't ship to Europe


----------



## kazsud

ultrainferno said:


> thank you. Never heard of Etsy. Excellent price as well. too bad they don't ship to Europe



 


No problem. He looks like Howard Stern and said he has 50-75 of them. He testing 7 and giving me the closest match.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Who wants to buy me some and send them to me?  Clayton maybe?


----------



## dminches

Speaking of tubes, I have too many 596s. If anyone is interested in one or a couple send me a PM. 

David


----------



## MJS242

ultrainferno said:


> Who wants to buy me some and send them to me?  Clayton maybe?


 
  
 I'll ship you some if you want, I guess I owe you for that 6SJ7WGT group buy still


----------



## Ultrainferno

Alright, I'll PM you later. thanks for the offer!


----------



## MJS242

I'm going to place an order with this guy soon (for myself as well), do you want 4 of them still? I know you're good for it.


----------



## MJS242

kazsud said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > thank you. Never heard of Etsy. Excellent price as well. too bad they don't ship to Europe
> ...


 
  
 Nice guy, really interesting to talk to.  Has a ton of stuff:
  
 http://leedsradio.com/
 http://leedsradio.com/blog/


----------



## Ultrainferno

Now that I see that site: it's the one Glenn advised!!


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Now that I see that site: it's the one Glenn advised!!


 

 Yes it is.  That was a while ago I am surprised you remembered.
 It is a original store from Radio Roe and it goes all the way back to the 1920s
 That is also were I was getting 596 tubes for $20 and selling them for $40 now it is crazy.


----------



## dminches

Glenn, if you want a 596 your price is $19.99.  And I have a coupon for $19.99.


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> Glenn, if you want a 596 your price is $19.99.  And I have a coupon for $19.99.


 
  
 Special pricing to a special guy!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Glenn, if you want a 596 your price is $19.99.  And I have a coupon for $19.99.


 

 $19.99 you can sell it for $200


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> dminches said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, if you want a 596 your price is $19.99.  And I have a coupon for $19.99.
> ...


 





 
 Also, as a cyclist, I really dug the caption from Leeds Radio:
  
_"Did you know that you can get to us by bicycle? You can bring your bike inside!"_


----------



## Neogeo333

Might swing to that place in Brooklyn later this month.  Got summoned for jury duty.


----------



## rosgr63

jc9394 said:


> Special pricing to a special guy!!!


 
  
 That's what friends are for.........


----------



## kvtaco17

plugged in some porta pros into my amp today at the Minneapolis meet and well, lets just say Glenn's amp made the porta pro sound good... #endgamesetup lol


----------



## Ultrainferno

Portapro on a Glenn amp, I'm sure that was a first


----------



## Silent One

snapple10...you make it out to the Minnesota meet?


----------



## snapple10

Sure did. I always enjoy meetings others with similar interests. My family came with me too, which is always nice. Will he heading back today
I put the Glenn amp to the only test I know.. With my T1 and really like it . 
Also, enjoyed some of the Grados in the house - modded 225 and RS1
So, if my Glenn amp ever shows at my door, I will be ready....hint hint Glenn


----------



## longbowbbs

snapple10 said:


> Sure did. I always enjoy meetings others with similar interests. My family came with me too, which is always nice. Will he heading back today
> I put the Glenn amp to the only test I know.. With my T1 and really like it .
> Also, enjoyed some of the Grados in the house - modded 225 and RS1
> So, if my Glenn amp ever shows at my door, I will be ready....hint hint Glenn


 
 Sorry I missed the meet! We were in DC on Vacation. I need more weekends!


----------



## Silent One

snapple10 said:


> Sure did. I always enjoy meetings others with similar interests. My family came with me too, which is always nice. Will he heading back today
> I put the Glenn amp to the only test I know.. With my T1 and really like it .
> Also, enjoyed some of the Grados in the house - modded 225 and RS1
> So, if my Glenn amp ever shows at my door, I will be ready....hint hint Glenn


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote:
  
 What Rectifier tube are you using in the amp ?


kvtaco17 said:


> plugged in some porta pros into my amp today at the Minneapolis meet and well, lets just say Glenn's amp made the porta pro sound good... #endgamesetup lol


 
  


>


----------



## 2359glenn

snapple10 said:


> Sure did. I always enjoy meetings others with similar interests. My family came with me too, which is always nice. Will he heading back today
> I put the Glenn amp to the only test I know.. With my T1 and really like it .
> Also, enjoyed some of the Grados in the house - modded 225 and RS1
> So, if my Glenn amp ever shows at my door, I will be ready....hint hint Glenn


 

 It will be finished by the end of July
 I will probably start it before I leave for Greece


----------



## kvtaco17

2359glenn said:


>


 
  
 Mullard GZ32/CV593
  
 Dubstep Girl really helped me out with finding that tube.


----------



## snapple10

"It will be finished by the end of July
I will probably start it before I leave for Greece"


That will be great!!!!


----------



## snapple10

longbowbbs said:


> Sorry I missed the meet! We were in DC on Vacation. I need more weekends!


 
 I am sure there will be another one before you know it


----------



## longbowbbs

snapple10 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry I missed the meet! We were in DC on Vacation. I need more weekends!
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

kvtaco17 said:


> plugged in some porta pros into my amp today at the Minneapolis meet and well, lets just say Glenn's amp made the porta pro sound good... #endgamesetup lol


 

 Thanks for taking the amp to the meet!!
 May have sold a amp to someone that listened ton it there.


----------



## kvtaco17

Ha no problem Glenn! But really the amp sells itself!


----------



## jaywillin

2359glenn said:


> Thanks for taking the amp to the meet!!
> May have sold a amp to someone that listened ton it there.


 

 he's been talking your amp up to me, you might have to give hime a little something !


----------



## kvtaco17

jaywillin said:


> he's been talking your amp up to me, you might have to give hime a little something !


 
 I'll take a pizza and scotch lol


----------



## parbaked

jaywillin said:


> he's been talking your amp up to me, you might have to give hime a little something !


 
 You got it backwards...if you get an Glenn amp you will put your MAD back up for sale and you will owe kvtaco17.
 And you know I'm sayin' that having owned a Super 2!


----------



## jaywillin

Im doing a little catch up reading/research , looks very cool


----------



## kvtaco17

parbaked said:


> You got it backwards...if you get an Glenn amp you will put your MAD back up for sale and you will owe kvtaco17.
> And you know I'm sayin' that having owned a Super 2!


 
 I really do like scotch and pizza...


----------



## 2359glenn

kvtaco17 said:


> jaywillin said:
> 
> 
> > he's been talking your amp up to me, you might have to give hime a little something !
> ...


 

 Were do you think I an going to get a good pizza in North Carolina?
 I am a New Yorker in the South no good pizza here.


----------



## jaywillin

kvtaco17 said:


> I really do like scotch and pizza...



Got it !


----------



## 2359glenn

jaywillin said:


> kvtaco17 said:
> 
> 
> > I really do like scotch and pizza...
> ...


 

 can get the scotch but you don't want the pizza


----------



## kvtaco17

2359glenn said:


> Were do you think I an going to get a good pizza in North Carolina?
> I am a New Yorker in the South no good pizza here.


 
 HA I'm a Chicagoan living in Minnesota... I feel your pain... I'll meet you halfway and grab a Lou's pizza, you hit up NY and bring your favorite and we'll meet on I80 somewhere...


----------



## longbowbbs

Hey Ultra, nice review of the T51p! Loved it.


----------



## 2359glenn

kvtaco17 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Were do you think I an going to get a good pizza in North Carolina?
> ...


 

 We can do that  We just need a way to heat up the pizzas
 Ah we can eat good pizza cold.  Shootout Chicago vrs New York
 A shootout can't get better then that.


----------



## kvtaco17

2359glenn said:


> We can do that  We just need a way to heat up the pizzas
> Ah we can eat good pizza cold.  Shootout Chicago vrs New York
> A shootout can't get better then that.


 
 Not a shootout, just a pig out... I'll bring beer!


----------



## 2359glenn

Perfect pizza and beer


----------



## Ultrainferno

longbowbbs said:


> Hey Ultra, nice review of the T51p! Loved it.


 
  
 Thanks man. Great little headphone!


----------



## jaywillin

kvtaco17 said:


> Not a shootout, just a pig out... I'll bring beer!


 

 pig out in the south can mean something else   bar-b-que


----------



## kvtaco17

jaywillin said:


> pig out in the south can mean something else   bar-b-que


 

 We can do that too!


----------



## Silent One

I can do Pizza @ any hour of the night/day. I'll be goin' to bed shortly with NY Pizza on my mind wishing I had some for breakfast!


----------



## 2359glenn

jaywillin said:


> kvtaco17 said:
> 
> 
> > Not a shootout, just a pig out... I'll bring beer!
> ...


 

 I can bring some barbecue from the south then go to NY and get Pizza then head west on I80.
 This keeps on getting better.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I can bring some barbecue from the south then go to NY and get Pizza then head west on I80.
> This keeps on getting better.


 
  
 And if "about halfway" is somewhere around Cleveland, that's pretty close to me


----------



## rosgr63

Now I feel left out.............


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Now I feel left out.............


 

 Do you want me to bring barbyque and pizza to Greece in two weeks?????????


----------



## rosgr63

No, that'll upset C............
  
 Remember his Hi-Tech iPad???????


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> No, that'll upset C............
> 
> Remember his Hi-Tech iPad???????


 

 The computer that always works no power needed.
 How can I forget


----------



## rosgr63

He's getting better Glenn you'll soon see....................
  
 You'll love the colour scheme of his phone, which already has been in the sea a couple of times.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> He's getting better Glenn you'll soon see....................
> 
> You'll love the colour scheme of his phone, which already has been in the sea a couple of times.


 

 One thing to remember do not leave me and C alone. I am crazy and so is he
 if left alone we can end up in jail and I would prefer not to be in jail in Greece.
 Who other then a crazy person would grab onto 230 volts just to see if 50Hz feels different then 60Hz.


----------



## rosgr63

Oh Glenn don't underestimate C
  
 Today Alex just came back from Brazil, he's another Very Bad Boy, you'll see.
  
 Just as well the other C is in charge of the Police Station, we're gonna need a big cell............


----------



## rosgr63

I sincerely hope David is not reading this


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Oh Glenn don't underestimate C
> 
> Today Alex just came back from Brazil, he's another Very Bad Boy, you'll see.
> 
> Just as well the other C is in charge of the Police Station, we're gonna need a big cell............


 

 I forgot that is a get out of jail free card no holding back forget what I said.
 I can show C how to have fun with the 13000 volt power lines


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I sincerely hope David is not reading this


 

 He won't want to come next year if he thinks we are crazy.
 But he knows were I come from we come from the same place so he has brain damage too.
 it is the water on Long Island


----------



## dminches

I am reading everything and it makes me more interested in making the trip!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I said it before: Next year: Eurotrip to Greece!


----------



## kvtaco17

2359glenn said:


> One thing to remember do not leave me and C alone. I am crazy and so is he
> if left alone we can end up in jail and I would prefer not to be in jail in Greece.
> Who other then a crazy person would grab onto 230 volts just to see if 50Hz feels different then 60Hz.


 

 I grab live power at work all the time... DC is kinda fun... AC is thrilling!


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> He won't want to come next year if he thinks we are crazy.
> But he knows were I come from we come from the same place so he has brain damage too.
> it is the water on Long Island


 
  
  
 We probably share the same water!!!!!!!!!!
  


dminches said:


> I am reading everything and it makes me more interested in making the trip!


 
  
 Just be prepared David.
  


ultrainferno said:


> I said it before: Next year: Eurotrip to Greece!


 
  
  
 We better be good from now on Lieven


----------



## Ultrainferno

Stavros, could you help me out?
  
 I remember seeing a resume you wrote of 6080WB tubes here on Headfi. It was a list of different versions with pics. You even completed the list when I found that curved weird Bendix tube
 The problem is I can't seem to locate it anymore. Do you maybe have a link to it please?
  
 thank you!


----------



## rosgr63

OK Sir, I'll try find it or email you my own Bendix excel file.


----------



## rosgr63

Here they are:
  
 Post 867
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/855
  
 Post 896
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/885#post_9811587


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> Here they are:
> 
> Post 867
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/855
> ...


 
  
 thank you Stavros. Appreciate it.
 However I could have sworn you did another updated post where you included your 5th version + this crazy slotted one (but can't find it). Maybe I'm dreaming


----------



## rosgr63

I remember this post too 1096, where I updated my list:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/1095
  
 Don't forget I am getting old Lieven........


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thank you a alot!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I hope it's ok, I updated the list with the pics in the 6AS7G thread
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/1350#post_10625059


----------



## MJS242

ultrainferno said:


> thank you Stavros. Appreciate it.
> However I could have sworn you did another updated post where you included your 5th version + this crazy slotted one (but can't find it). Maybe I'm dreaming


 
  
  
 Is that something they actually produced, or was that a machining error? I can't imagine a mistake like that would pass QC.


----------



## Ultrainferno

It looks too well made/correct to be a mistake. but we'll never know till others show up


----------



## rosgr63

I too think it was made like that.
  
 Here's another interesting NIB U52, when I feel brave enough I might try it in one of my Glenn's OTL.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I too think it was made like that.
> 
> Here's another interesting NIB U52, when I feel brave enough I might try it in one of my Glenn's OTL.


 

 Put it in the amp that you are running 6BL7s for outputs that will be drawing less current through the rectifier.


----------



## parbaked

Glenn,
 Our local started serving a new Puttanesca Pizza!
 I'm thinking this is a good omen for the Experimental!


----------



## 2359glenn

Sounds good even though I just ate dinner.


----------



## Silent One

It just made me hungry...again for the night!


----------



## Silent One

Sooo, I'm itching to get back to B'Klyn early autumn and perhaps read up on Radio Tubes & Circuits on the iPad while I lounge.


----------



## Ultrainferno

C, can you bring of these pizzas with you in August? I love cold pizza so no worries there.


----------



## kvtaco17

I found a pair of these 6080's locally very cheap NOS... they are Tomson-CSF branded and have found 0 info on who made them... They do sound rather good, I still prefer my microphonic Chatham's but these have a bigger sound stage and good clarity. I can post more pics if anyone needs them to help identify them.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Oh we know the Thomsons alright. I have a bunch somewhere and Stavros has them too (probably a whole crate).
 It's a nice sounding tube. Very clear, detail, bit forward sounding. Not warm at all and no specially good bass or smoothness in the mids.
  
 A good cheap tube! (There are thousands of these left and can be bought for 3 to 4€/tube)


----------



## Ultrainferno

oh, and I think they are French. All the tubes you find know seem to be coming from ex army stocks in France. I think Stavros knows more about them and I also think we have more info on these tube either in this thread or the 61S7G thread


----------



## rosgr63

I couldn't agree more Lieven.
 I was lucky to get some a couple of months ago when the first appeared as ex French military stock for the ridiculous price of $8 for the quad.


----------



## Oskari

kvtaco17 said:


> I found a pair of these 6080's locally very cheap NOS... they are Tomson-CSF branded and have found 0 info on who made them...


 
  
 That would be Thomson-CSF in Saint-Egrève.


----------



## rosgr63

Indeed


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Fathers day to all the fathers out there.


----------



## Silent One

+1..."Happy Father's Day!"


----------



## punit

Happy Fathers Day , Fellow Fathers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Kids are like Tube Amps, they suck more money than expected  but the joy you get is  ...............


----------



## rnadell

silent one said:


> +1..."Happy Father's Day!"


 

 +1


----------



## longbowbbs

+2!!


----------



## Neogeo333

+3.
 Difficult to forget since my 7 old kept reminding me all week that Sunday is Father's Day.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## rosgr63

George your new rectifier discovery better be good...................


----------



## Neogeo333

I've used it for a month with no smoke or spark from the amp.  I guess its ok.


----------



## rosgr63

If it survived the B-52's I am sure it'll be fine in Glenn's OTL..............


----------



## rosgr63

Happy Birthday to whoever has his birthday today............


----------



## john57

Mine was last Saturday!


----------



## Silent One

Wishing you many more...


----------



## rosgr63

john57 said:


> Mine was last Saturday!


 
  
  
 Happy Birthday John!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

GO BELGIUM!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I am in World Championship mode. Sorry


----------



## rosgr63

Good Luck!!!!!!


----------



## Neogeo333

Any favorites this time?  Holland and Germany look strong.
  
 Stavros who's your favorite is this bunch?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Germany will be very close. And Belgium of course


----------



## rosgr63

Here they are:


----------



## rosgr63

Chile is playing very well.


----------



## Silent One

neogeo333 said:


> Any favorites this time?  Holland and Germany look strong.
> 
> Stavros who's your favorite is this bunch?


 
 Considering 'Paul the Octopus' had 8 arms...


----------



## Neogeo333

I wanted Spain for a early exit and it happened.  Tomorrow is Japan vs Greece must win for both.


----------



## Neogeo333

silent one said:


> Considering 'Paul the Octopus' had 8 arms...


 
 Didnt that thing died?  It had a great win record.


----------



## Silent One

neogeo333 said:


> Didnt that thing died?  I had a great win record.


 
 Yes, it did.


----------



## rosgr63

Now they have a squid but isn't as good as Paul was...........


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Now they have a squid but isn't as good as Paul was...........


 
 Stavros...are you serving squid or octopus for the game tonight?
 I'm sorry my friend, but M is rooting for the Samurai Blue...Good Luck!


----------



## Neogeo333

Greece gonna need a miracle with one man down. Stupid ref, it wasn't so hard no need for yellow.  
  
 Mmmm, octopus, have a craving for paella.


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> Stavros...are you serving squid or octopus for the game tonight?
> I'm sorry my friend, but M is rooting for the Samurai Blue...Good Luck!


 
  
 Please tell M we are still very good friends, and the result was good.
 It was on at 1am, only souvlaki and pizza was served I am afraid.
  


neogeo333 said:


> Greece gonna need a miracle with one man down. Stupid ref, it wasn't so hard no need for yellow.
> 
> Mmmm, octopus, have a craving for paella.


 
  
 We played better with out him............


----------



## Ultrainferno

So you are all joining Team Belgium when your country gets eliminated, right?


----------



## rosgr63

Belgium, Italia and Chile.


----------



## rosgr63

Kevin Mirallas did well.


----------



## rosgr63

Kevin Mirallas played well.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Well, I think he sucked, like most of them except for the last 10 minutes. Origi is what made them play better, and he scored. Anyway, 2nd round!!


----------



## rosgr63

The game turned around when Kevin got in at the end.
 The rest of the game was very boring.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just noticed we're on page 666. The number of the beast!


----------



## Ultrainferno

On a different note, I have really been enjoying the full collection from Anna Ternheim, Melody Gardot, Robert Plant/Alisson Krauss. (Thanks C!)
 I would love to get to know some similar artists. Do you guys have any tips for me?


----------



## rosgr63

The beast is running with RCA 6BL7's/Ken-Rad 1633/Sylvania 3DG4, fed via a Buffalo 24 DAC driving HD650 with a RAL cable.
  
 Marc Bolan & T-Rex children of the revolution.


----------



## Oskari

ultrainferno said:


> On a different note, I have really been enjoying the full collection from Anna Ternheim, Melody Gardot, Robert Plant/Alisson Krauss. (Thanks C!)
> I would love to get to know some similar artists. Do you guys have any tips for me?


 
  
 If you haven't, you might want to check out Rigmor Gustafsson and Jane Monheit.


----------



## kvtaco17

oskari said:


> If you haven't, you might want to check out Rigmor Gustafsson and Jane Monheit.


 
  
 Don't forget Heather Rigdon! lol


----------



## Silent One

I'm still giddy about us reaching 10,000 posts


----------



## kvtaco17

Soon... Friggin soon lol 

come one 10k!


----------



## magiccabbage

Nearly there now


----------



## Ultrainferno

I refuse to be part of this useless posting to get to 10000


----------



## punit

May I propose that when we reach 9999 posts, we will leave the honour of making the 10K post to Glenn.


----------



## Clayton SF

Well howdy do. They make pizza with the colors of the Italian flag--red, green, and white. Invented in 1889 in honor of the visiting Queen Margherita of Italy. I wonder what a Mathilde pizza would be made of. That is the Queen of Belgium. Probably made of black olives, tomatoes, and yellow bell peppers.
  
 Speaking of Mathilde--Stavros, have you ever eaten here?
_*Matilde Pizza Bar*_


----------



## rosgr63

Waiting for Glenn while listing to some sophisticated music, DJ Bobo ............
  
*EDIT* Sorry Clayton, I only like dives.......


----------



## 2359glenn

Hello All
  
 On this 10,000 post I would like to say thanks for your support
 and friendship.
  
 Glenn


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Waiting for Glenn while listing to some sophisticated music, DJ Bobo ............
> 
> *EDIT* Sorry Clayton, I only like dives.......


 

 Stavros you will be listening to allot of music I won't be there for 3 days almost to the hour
  
 Clayton Stavros goes to good dives I suspect we will go to a couple next week


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Hello All
> 
> On this 10,000 post I would like to say thanks for your support
> and friendship.
> ...


 
_*Glenn, you are very welcome!*_
  
 And you for starting me off with your OTL and 300B mono blocks which I play daily.
  


2359glenn said:


> Stavros you will be listening to allot of music I won't be there for 3 days almost to the hour
> 
> Clayton Stavros goes to good dives I suspect we will go to a couple next week


 
  
 Well then I expect some really dive-y photographs.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> Hello All
> 
> On this 10,000 post I would like to say thanks for your support
> and friendship.
> ...


----------



## rosgr63

2 1/2 days left Glenn.
  
 We'll definitely visit a few nice dives like the one by Marathon lake.
  
 Thanks to all the nice people who are participating here and my biggest *Thanks *goes to you Glenn.
  
 Let's stay united, learn from each other, teach and help.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> 2 1/2 days left Glenn.
> 
> We'll definitely visit a few nice dives like the one by Marathon lake.
> 
> ...


 

 I wouldn't call that a dive.
 I do know that L would like to go there again and eat outside and have the lake view.
 Stavros I will see you on Friday morning


----------



## rosgr63

I was teasing Clayton.............
  
 Definitely not a dive, I wouldn't dare take the girls to a dive.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I was teasing Clayton.............
> 
> Definitely not a dive, I wouldn't dare take the girls to a dive.


 

 I would be happy with some kabobs from a street vender.


----------



## rosgr63

This is it Glenn


----------



## Ultrainferno

Glenn have a great trip, till when are you staying?


----------



## 2359glenn

July 5th
 Are you coming?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I can't make it this time round, I can only take some time off from July 21. Maybe next year!


----------



## 2359glenn

Stavros here are a few pix from last year lingering in my work computer.
  
 .


----------



## dminches

Glenn, congrats on reaching 10k!  You deserve all the accolades.
  
 Stavros, those are beautiful pictures.
  
 Here's two from my recent trip to Washington State.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Hello All
> 
> On this 10,000 post I would like to say thanks for your support
> and friendship.
> ...


 
  
 Without knowing the origin of this thread, the significance of reaching 10,000 posts will be lost on many. Shortly after becoming a Head-Fi member, you quickly emerged as a valuable contributor to the site. Not only did you offer us help we could simply not find anywhere else - _at least in a timely manner_ - you gave us a lasting friendship to boot! If I learned anything from Econ 101, you gave us way too much value! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 However, once your participation in the hobby we all love became threatened, I quickly moved to create a platform to consolidate communication with your friends. What began as the little thread that could, blossomed quite nicely. 
  
 And while I still would much prefer "SO" or Silent One on the site, I've now reached a personal point in my life where you may call me Anthony if you so choose.
  
 Cheers!




  
 Kind regards,
  
 SO


----------



## Silent One

Looking over today's pix, I just realized I've not yet booked a vacay anywhere yet...whatsthematterwithme!


----------



## jc9394

SO, Zurich in early August?


----------



## Silent One

You treatin'?!


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> Looking over today's pix, I just realized I've not yet booked a vacay anywhere yet...whatsthematterwithme!


 
  
  
 I spent mine in sunny Florida this year. Next year? I'm thinking Euro tour.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> You treatin'?!


 
  
  
 I wish my pocket is that deep...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I wish my pocket is that deep...


 
 Will still try to meet you in NY or BOS at some point...


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I spent mine in sunny Florida this year. Next year? I'm thinking Euro tour.


 
 It wasn't long ago, just last autumn in fact (Sep/Oct), I was deciding my vacay between Tokyo or Paris. And quickly learned the money I had set aside itself went on vacay!


----------



## punit

I hope Glenn has the best vacation ever (so he can pour some extra love into my amp when he starts makin it when back)


----------



## Silent One

punit said:


> I hope Glenn has the best vacation ever (so he can pour some extra love into my amp when he starts makin it when back)


 





 Absolutely! This is the very observation I made last year. When Glenn returned from seeing our most wonderful friend in Greece, the efficiency and aesthetics with his custom builds improved like no other.


----------



## rosgr63

silent one said:


> Without knowing the origin of this thread, the significance of reaching 10,000 posts will be lost on many. Shortly after becoming a Head-Fi member, you quickly emerged as a valuable contributor to the site. Not only did you offer us help we could simply not find anywhere else - _at least in a timely manner_ - you gave us a lasting friendship to boot! If I learned anything from Econ 101, you gave us way too much value!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Anthony we couldn't have done to without you.
 You have been such a good friend, thank you for creating this thread.
 I know I often talk about non audio things but this is more than a typical thread it's like a diary of our lives.
  


dminches said:


> Glenn, congrats on reaching 10k!  You deserve all the accolades.
> 
> Stavros, those are beautiful pictures.
> 
> Here's two from my recent trip to Washington State.


 
  
 David these photos are awesome.
 I bet you had a wonderful time.
 Sorry to disappoint you once more but I never took any of the pics.
 I given up photography years ago.
 Last but not least, thanks very much for your helping me one more time my dear friend.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Congrats with the Greece qualification, Stavros. Scoring only twice in 3 games and being trough is amazing


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks Lieven, the underdogs have done it again.
  
 Our National team costs less than two of Côte d'Ivoire players.
  
​We hit the post three times, we could have scored more.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I like giorgos karagounis most, good player.
  
 On a related note: Suarez is now hoping to play Germany so he can try a shoulder of Lahm


----------



## rosgr63

Γιώργος Καραγκούνης is 37 but his heart is in the game.
  
 I like it............Suarez is exceptional


----------



## alota

ultrainferno said:


> Congrats with the Greece qualification, Stavros. Scoring only twice in 3 games and being trough is amazing


 
 X1. my italy was really horrible!!!!
 now i´m greek


----------



## rosgr63

Been Sicilian is not far away from Greeks.
  
 I like your avatar Aldo what is it?


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> Been Sicilian is not far away from Greeks.
> 
> I like your avatar Aldo what is it?


 
 it´s a destroied house with only a WC.
 represents our countries(italy, greece, spain and portugal). we have just the WC!!!
 the picture was taken from me in Badajoz, region estremadura, country Spain.
 P.S.: you know that my city, Siracusa, was the bigger colony of Corinth in the mediterranean sea.
 a part of my blood is greek


----------



## rosgr63

I know Aldo.
  
 The only difference is that you are not pazo like me..........


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Anthony we couldn't have done to without you.
> You have been such a good friend, thank you for creating this thread.
> I know I often talk about non audio things but *this is more than a typical thread it's like a diary of our lives.*


 
 +1 to that!!!
  
 Kind regards,
  
 SO


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> I know Aldo.
> 
> The only difference is that you are not pazo like me..........


 
 no doubt!!!!
 you´re the king


----------



## 2359glenn

Made it at Stavros house


----------



## Ultrainferno

Have fun guys!


----------



## longbowbbs

Enjoy the vacation!


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> Made it at Stavros house


 
 Excellent...it has been two hours...how many cheese pies have you eaten already?
  
 Have fun Glenn!
  
 Stavros...drive carefully!!


----------



## dminches

Glad to hear!  


2359glenn said:


> Made it at Stavros house


----------



## wotts

2359glenn said:


> Made it at Stavros house


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Made it at Stavros house


----------



## kvtaco17

2359glenn said:


> Made it at Stavros house


 
 Have fun!


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Made it at Stavros house


 
  
 Stavros's house: The home of the real Olympics!
 Have fun! All of the time!


----------



## rosgr63

I'll try to behave for Glenn and L..........


----------



## Ultrainferno

I will try joining you next year!


----------



## 2359glenn

Plan on watching the games to night and tomorrow.
 Hope not to get to drunk. L might have to drive us in Stavros car back from his brothers house tonight.


----------



## rosgr63

Too many naughty friends around...........


----------



## kvtaco17

Just an FYI...
  
 Chatham/Tung-Sol 6336A's (graphite plates, copper rods) are here and sound glorious with my Grado's! Very close to the 5998's with low impedance loads but quieter. Very spacious sounding with good bass impact and above average detail, super pleasant!
  
 My 5998's do some crazy voodoo with the HD800's and my K240 Sextett LP's! Absolutely glorious! AND they sound pretty darned good with low impedance cans, although they are kinda noisy...
  
 And lastly I snagged a pair of Chatham 6080's... they sound very good, pretty much the same as my Chatham 6AS7's but much quieter!
  
 In short I like the...
  
 5998
 6080
 6336
  
 in that order with higher impedance loads, and...
  
 6336
 6080
 5998
  
 with lower impedance loads...
  
 all dependent on mood really though lol All 3 sound very good, I was really surprised by how the 6336 sounded... very good detail, impact, extension and sound staging. However with my HD800's and sextett's the bass got boomy and uncontrolled. BUT they are very good with my Grado's and Audio Technica's!
  
 I think I'm done rolling these lol Time to mess around with the driver and rectifier a bit (though I do love my current CV593 and RCA red bottom setup)


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> Too many naughty friends around...........


 

 And you're the leader of the pack!


----------



## Vitalstatistix

Hiya everyone! I have a HD650 (with the intention to get either the T1 or HD800 in the future) and I'm in a market for a good tube amp. Came across Glenn's amp after reading about the 300B from Ultrainferno's posts in the Dark Voice 339 thread. Unfortunately I've spent all my energy reading every page in that thread, and can't possibly read every page in this thread.

So far my options are crack + speedball, la figaro 339 and Woo WA2. Where would the 300B fit? Could somebody please direct me to a spec page?

Thanks very much!


----------



## Ultrainferno

There is no spec page. The 300B is not made for the HD650. You should go for Glenn's OTL amp, success guaranteed


----------



## Vitalstatistix

Thanks! Looks like I might have to read all 671 pages of this thread after all!


----------



## parbaked

> Unfortunately I've spent all my energy reading every page in that thread, and can't possibly read every page in this thread.
> 
> So far my options are crack + speedball, la figaro 339 and Woo WA2. Where would the 300B fit? Could somebody please direct me to a spec page?


 
 There is no spec page or website for 2359Glenn...this is it.
 You really do need to read this entire thread...you have time.
  
 hint: you want a 2359Glenn OTL for your HD650 - the 300B is better for low impedance and planars
  
 Enjoy!
  
 ps- I prefer the MAD Ear+ HD to the Crack, La Fig and Woo options you listed.
  
 EDIT: Ultra is so fast!!


----------



## Vitalstatistix

Glenn OTL it is then (I'm assuming it's for high impedence headphones). I started reading from page 600 and I'm up to 618 now. So far I've learned about SACD player, photography and alcohol. Such a fascinating thread!


----------



## Ultrainferno

parbaked said:


> EDIT: Ultra is so fast!!


 
  
  
 Some might even say I'm UltraFast


vitalstatistix said:


> Glenn OTL it is then (I'm assuming it's for high impedence headphones). I started reading from page 600 and I'm up to 618 now. So far I've learned about SACD player, photography and alcohol. Such a fascinating thread!


 
  
 Wait till you get to the party police


----------



## parbaked

ultrainferno said:


> Some might even say I'm UltraFast


 
 Owners speak fastest (and loudest)!
  
 Are you ready for USA v. Belgium?
  
 I'm going to abduct Clayton from work to make sure he's not rooting for Belgium!
  


vitalstatistix said:


> Such a fascinating thread!


 
 I hear they have good Pizza down under....


----------



## Vitalstatistix

Our beer is better I reckon! Our wine is pretty good too.

I'm at page 630 now, and waiting for Germany to start their football match.


----------



## Ultrainferno

parbaked said:


> Are you ready for USA v. Belgium?
> 
> I'm going to abduct Clayton from work to make sure he's not rooting for Belgium!


 
  
 As ready as I can be! I already recruted Clayton, sorry.


----------



## parbaked

ultrainferno said:


> I already recruted Clayton, sorry.


 
 Yes...you used sweets and pastries..not a fair fight!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> As ready as I can be! I already recruted Clayton, sorry.


 
  

  
  


parbaked said:


> There is no spec page or website for 2359Glenn...this is it.
> You really do need to read this entire thread...you have time.
> 
> hint: you want a 2359Glenn OTL for your HD650 - the 300B is better for low impedance and planars
> ...


 
  
 I may have referenced these before but my memory fails me now. 
  
 HD650 and the Glenn Amp OTL were impressive when paired and shown at the N.Cal meet in 2012: Click _*HERE*_:
_*Questhate: This is from One of my absolute favorite rigs there was the HD650 + custom 2359Glenn-built amp that was at Clayton SF’s table. I’ve tried to like the HD650 before, but couldn’t help but associate it with the dreaded “V-word”. On this particular amp, it was quite a revelation. It sounded open, airy and clear while still being warm and smooth. Anyone looking for a sub-$1000 endgame, I’d seriously give that pairing a consideration.*_
  
 And _*HERE*_:
_*lurkumaural: Hearing the HD 650 become a different headphone entirely driven by Clayton's very special homebrew amp [Glenn's OTL].  I'm upset that it was such a big hit hahaha. *_


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> parbaked said:
> 
> 
> > Are you ready for USA v. Belgium?
> ...


 

 USA is going to kick some ass tonight.
  Going to watch at Stavros brothers house.
 And I am sorry to here about Clayton.


----------



## Vitalstatistix

I'm really enjoying reading the posts in this thread (I've started from the beginning and I'm on page 70). So far I'm really liking what I'm reading about Glenn's amps and I really really love the caramaderie here by the posters. SO YES I'LL BE GETTING A GLENN's OTL AMP! I'm really excited and I must say it's a very comfortable decision.
  
 ps so if USA wins tonight I get special upgrade on the amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

vitalstatistix said:


> I'm really enjoying reading the posts in this thread (I've started from the beginning and I'm on page 70). So far I'm really liking what I'm reading about Glenn's amps and I really really love the caramaderie here by the posters. SO YES I'LL BE GETTING A GLENN's OTL AMP! I'm really excited and I must say it's a very comfortable decision.
> 
> ps so if USA wins tonight I get special upgrade on the amp?


 

 If you root for USA


----------



## Ultrainferno

And if Belgium wins, I get one free or will it cost me double?


----------



## 2359glenn

It will cost you double maybe.
 But don't worry Belgium is not going to win.


----------



## Ultrainferno

We'll talk again tomorrow


----------



## Vitalstatistix

Haha it's going to be a good match for sure!


----------



## rosgr63

It'll be a good game for sure, Belgium has lots of experience but USA is so fast.


----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> And you're the leader of the pack!


 
  
 Clayton, I've been good didn't jump many red lights yet, only driven to the wrong side of the road a few times!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > And you're the leader of the pack!
> ...


 

 He is telling the Truth I was with him.


----------



## Clayton SF

For those of you who don't have a private tour guide and tutor like I do--thanks Ultra, here's a primer on the _*Land of Beer and Cholocate*_.
  
 By the way, it is just 42 days before I board a jet to The Netherlands where hopefully I'll get to hang out with Ultra and S.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> And I am sorry to here about Clayton.


 
 I fear Clayton's head is not in the game...seems it's in Ultra's kitchen eating pastries!
 We may have to win without him!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> I fear Clayton's head is not in the game...seems it's in Ultra's kitchen eating pastries!
> We may have to win without him!


 

 I have dual "citizenship," so may the best team win. And the game starts during my lunch break so will I be eating hotdogs or waffles?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I think I better shut up now. At least till after the game


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> And the game starts during my lunch break so will I be eating hotdogs or waffles?


 
  
  I'll be home watching if you want to stop by at lunch.
 We're serving HOT DOGS and FREEDOM FRIES!!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> I'll be home watching if you want to stop by at lunch.
> We're serving HOT DOGS and FREEDOM FRIES!!


 
  
 I won't be able to sneak over but thank you for the invitation. And by the way, they both originated in Europe. Hot dogs, perhaps from Germany / Poland, and Freedom Fries from Belgium (Vlaamse Frites).


----------



## Silent One

vitalstatistix said:


> I'm really enjoying reading the posts in this thread (I've started from the beginning and I'm on page 70). So far I'm really liking what I'm reading about Glenn's amps and I really really love the caramaderie here by the posters. SO YES I'LL BE GETTING A GLENN's OTL AMP! I'm really excited and I must say it's a very comfortable decision.
> 
> ps so if USA wins tonight I get special upgrade on the amp?


 
 Great! And if you're on page 70, you'll learn the 2359glenn OTL is one of the few amps that can pass internal scrutiny under a Black light.


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> I think I better shut up now. At least till after the game


 
 Not shown in the above pix: USA entering the frame from the far left in full sneak attack mode!


----------



## 2359glenn

Here is a picture of the homemade macaroni Stavros mother made for us for lunch today.
 This was wonderful


----------



## parbaked

That is superb!
 The dishes that Stavros' mother makes always look simply perfect!


----------



## 2359glenn

They taste better then perfect.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looks good! Just not sure about the choice of beer though. Amstel. Uff.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


parbaked said:


> That is superb!
> The dishes that Stavros' mother makes always look simply perfect!


 
  
 I would probably gain quite a bit of weight while dining with Stavros and his family.  Yummy!


----------



## rosgr63

Mamma cooks simple dishes but they taste good.
 Clayton just wear buggy T-Shirts and elasticated waste trousers and you'll be fine.
 Like tubes we need room to expand.
  
 Ultra that was a Radler, we need to be focused on the food you know.


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> Mamma cooks simple dishes but they taste good.
> Clayton just wear buggy T-Shirts and elasticated waste trousers and you'll be fine.
> Like tubes we need room to expand.
> 
> Ultra that was a Radler, we need to be focused on the food you know.


 
  
 Is that a large dish of white fish or soft cheese? That whole table is just stocked full of goodies.


----------



## Vitalstatistix

Things not looking so good for the US of A.


----------



## parbaked

Cheers Ultra! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Vitalstatistix

lol!


----------



## Ultrainferno

See who laughs now...
A well deserved win, it should have been 8-1. Great goalkeeper but Belgium clearly was better. The baldy is a great player too


----------



## Skylab

That all may well be true but the US had a golden opportunity to win the game right at the end before overtime and blew an easy, easy goal.


----------



## dminches

Belgium controlled the play more but to say it should have been 8-1 is a stretch. A good part of the uSA's success is due to Howard. And, the US did blow a big opportunity before extra time as Rob said. Good match. Back to baseball and football training camp until 2018!


----------



## parbaked

ultrainferno said:


> See who laughs now...


 
 I'm having words with Glenn when he gets back.
 I'm thinking no Glenn amps to Belgium until the next World Cup is fair.
 He didn't send any to Ghana after 2010!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> I'm having words with Glenn when he gets back.
> I'm thinking no Glenn amps to Belgium until the next World Cup is fair.
> He didn't send any to Ghana after 2010!


 
  
 Nice game. Congrats to both teams. I'm thinking about our next meeting with Rachel and parbaked accompanied with Jack Smith's latest vinyl. The days grow shorter. Hehehehe. Belgium is a beautiful country and Ultra- has made it so. I am listening to Andrew Bird's new LP.


----------



## longbowbbs

What? Did I miss something? I was busy watching the National Hockey league draft and first day of free agent signings.....


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> What? Did I miss something? I was busy watching the National Hockey league draft and first day of free agent signings.....


 

 Nope. The 4th of July is 2 days away. That's what not to miss. Especially when you're spending it with your family and friends on your wonderful deck.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > What? Did I miss something? I was busy watching the National Hockey league draft and first day of free agent signings.....
> ...


 
 The Northwoods B&B will be a full capacity for the 4th! The first guests arrive tomorrow. I hope you have a wonderful 4th as well Clayton!


----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> Is that a large dish of white fish or soft cheese? That whole table is just stocked full of goodies.


 
  
  
 Home made macaroni using a spit from an aromatic plan to make each individual piece.
 Soutzoukakia with home made sauce.
  
 Clayton I am sorry to report I jumped a red light on the way to watch the match at my brother's.


----------



## Neogeo333

Careful Stavros,  your seeing too much Belgium flags while driving?

 I need your partner in crime back not too drunk or mess up so he can build my amp.
  
 Have fun and be safe you two juvenile delinquents.


----------



## Ultrainferno

just to be clear, that's a German flag 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Great article in the NY times: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/02/sports/worldcup/world-cup-2014-against-belgium-usa-shows-grit-in-another-second-round-exit.html


----------



## Neogeo333

My bad Ultra, but they do look alike.   Germany vs Belgium in finals?   That will surely confuse some people.


----------



## rosgr63

Who cares about there flag????????????


----------



## rosgr63




----------



## Ultrainferno

neogeo333 said:


> Germany vs Belgium in finals?   That will surely confuse some people.


 
  
 http://www.triviaplaza.com/qa.php#


----------



## parbaked

parbaked said:


> Have fun Glenn!
> 
> Stavros...drive carefully!!


 


rosgr63 said:


> Clayton I am sorry to report I jumped a red light on the way to watch the match at my brother's.


 
 Stavros, I asked you to drive carefully.
 Those light posts and traffic lights are dangerous when you are with Glenn!
 At least you are having fun!!
 CHEERS


----------



## rosgr63

Just as well the girls are keeping an eye.................


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Just as well the girls are keeping an eye.................


 
 Yeah...but no such thing as a free lunch.


----------



## Vitalstatistix

France versus Germany soon!


----------



## 2359glenn

Back to food pictures request from David this is my desert Pavlova with strawberry's.


----------



## dminches

That looks yummy!


----------



## 2359glenn

Picture from the beach Aegean sea.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Back to food pictures request from David this is my desert Pavlova with strawberry's.


 
 Our main man is back there living the good life..._deservedly so._


----------



## longbowbbs

Looks like s great time!


----------



## Vitalstatistix

How I wish I'm there enjoying the sun and the water.  Looks lovely.


----------



## 2359glenn

Back from Greece
 I like to thank Stavros for showing us a good time
  
 Glenn & L


----------



## rnadell

2359glenn said:


> Back from Greece
> I like to thank Stavros for showing us a good time
> 
> Glenn & L


 

 Welcome back ! ! !


----------



## Clayton SF

rnadell said:


> Welcome back ! ! !


 
  
 Welcome back. Now let's plan the next trip together where we all can get arrested _en masse_. Not to mention eating vast quantities of goodies from the Stavros family.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Back from Greece
> I like to thank Stavros for showing us a good time
> 
> Glenn & L


 
  
 You are most welcome.
  
 Until next time.


----------



## Silent One

rnadell said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Back from Greece
> ...


 
 +1
 Bet you got rejuvenated like no other! rosgr63...what a host!


----------



## Silent One

@ Ultra
  
 Perhaps you'll feel better after the loss knowing I'm featuring one of Belgium's greatest sweets as my avatar.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thank SO, the AK240 + Duet and LCD-XC are helping with that too though


----------



## Silent One

My _overnight_ session just went final! I was pushing the HE-6...yum-o!


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> rnadell said:
> 
> 
> > Welcome back ! ! !
> ...


 

 No getting arrested we were hanging with the Athens Police chief.


----------



## Vitalstatistix

Woo hoo welcome back!


----------



## Vitalstatistix

On a related note, guess who's on the waiting list for the famous Glenn OTL amp?


----------



## longbowbbs

vitalstatistix said:


> On a related note, guess who's on the waiting list for the famous Glenn OTL amp?


----------



## Neogeo333

Riot police better be on call after the game in Brazil.  I expected 2-0 but this is a massacre.


----------



## rnadell

Hello to all, well I've had my otl for a while now and I continue to be amazed
 by the quality of sound. What it boils down to is I simply don't have a desire to
 look or listen to anything else.
 To all of you that are thinking about purchasing one, don't hesitate.
 Thanks Glenn, it was worth the wait.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Are those 6080WA's?


----------



## Vitalstatistix

rnadell said:


> Hello to all, well I've had my otl for a while now and I continue to be amazed
> by the quality of sound. What it boils down to is I simply don't have a desire to
> look or listen to anything else.
> To all of you that are thinking about purchasing one, don't hesitate.
> Thanks Glenn, it was worth the wait.


 
 Droooooooooooooooool!


----------



## rnadell

ultrainferno said:


> Are those 6080WA's?


 

 GEC 6080's and I love them. Quiet, only problem when they warm up they have an odor. Not so bad
 now and I probably have 60+ hrs on them.


----------



## jc9394

rnadell said:


> GEC 6080's and I love them. Quiet, only problem when they warm up they have an odor. Not so bad
> now and I probably have 60+ hrs on them.




Give it another 100 hours the odor will be gone, it is burning the glue on the label.


----------



## Vitalstatistix

rnadell: need more pictures buddy. I'm hungry!


----------



## rnadell

vitalstatistix said:


> rnadell: need more pictures buddy. I'm hungry!


----------



## rnadell

rnadell said:


>


 

 The top pic is the final choice for now. The amp sits on Still Points and is as close to dead quiet as I can achieve.


----------



## kazsud

rnadell said:


> GEC 6080's and I love them. Quiet, only problem when they warm up they have an odor. Not so bad
> now and I probably have 60+ hrs on them.




I get the odor from mine in my Wa2


----------



## jc9394

rnadell said:


> The top pic is the final choice for now. The amp sits on Still Points and is as close to dead quiet as I can achieve.




Have the same tubes combo with mines for few months with no intention of rolling.


----------



## Stealer

ultrainferno said:


> There is no spec page. The 300B is not made for the HD650. You should go for Glenn's OTL amp, success guaranteed




There is no spec:eek:
I started reading from page 1 when I found this in Woo thread..and now on pg 17... Think I'm interested..
Accidentally click onto this page and found the above..

And I have some questions and hope Glenn and others can answer 
1 So how many amps does Glenn make and in balance config too?
2 is it available for international buyers?
3 how much is the cost per models ?... Basic set
4. I'm user of Beyer t1 and now added a Hifiman he560, sold off my heavy he500
 Which amp is suitable for me?...
 Listening genres are : new age, jazz , classical rock and some classical music ( still trying to appreciate this)

pS: can only read 10 pages.. My eyes are getting too tired for an old guy
 Also I'm planning to audition wa22, never heard of it
 But I'm using little dots mk 6+ fully balance.


----------



## Neogeo333

I loved the MK6+, it was a good amp for the money.  Powerful enough to handle all orthos.  But if you'll already noticed it better suited for orthos and not high impedance phones like the T1.
 For that LD makes a MK8 I think.  
  
 It would be better if you just PM Glenn and talk to him about what you want in your amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

stealer said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > There is no spec page. The 300B is not made for the HD650. You should go for Glenn's OTL amp, success guaranteed
> ...


 
  
 1 I really make 3 amps the OTL  a 300B  and a 300B with Lundahl transformers    OTL base price  $650     300B base price $1500   300B with Lundahl transformers base price $2500
    None are balanced there really are no balanced tube amps all are solid state.
  
 2  All amps are 115/230 volt and I do sell international.
  
 3  The best amp for the T-1 is the OTL


----------



## jc9394

The OTL is worth every pennies, just spend another $250ish for better tubes and you will have a kick ass amp.


----------



## rosgr63

rndell your amp looks so good, pleased you like it.
 Have you got the 5998 mod?


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> rndell your amp looks so good, pleased you like it.
> Have you got the 5998 mod?


 
 What is 5998 Mod, Precious?


----------



## 2359glenn

The 5998 mod is a switch on the back that switches from 6AS7 to 5998 or 6336.
 It puts the proper bias for a 5998 making it sound better then it would biased as a 6AS7.
 It still sounds good run as a 6AS7but why not bias it right improving the sound further.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> The 5998 mod is a switch on the back that switches from 6AS7 to 5998 or 6336.
> It puts the proper bias for a 5998 making it sound better then it would biased as a 6AS7.
> It still sounds good run as a 6AS7but why not bias it right improving the sound further.


 
 Handy thing!


----------



## punit

Also the 5998 switch allows the use of low impedance phones if you use 6336 output tubes.

For me this is a major + point regarding Glen's OTL as normally you can use only high impd cans with OTL's.


----------



## rosgr63

It does make the 5998's sound better than if run as 6AS7G's.
 Not many OTL's are biased correctly for the 5998's so to me it's a nice mod to have.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> The 5998 mod is a switch on the back that switches from 6AS7 to 5998 or 6336.
> It puts the proper bias for a 5998 making it sound better then it would biased as a 6AS7.
> It still sounds good run as a 6AS7but why not bias it right improving the sound further.


 
  
 Is the 5998/6336 switch now standard on your OTL's?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The 5998 mod is a switch on the back that switches from 6AS7 to 5998 or 6336.
> ...


 

 It is a extra I leave out these parts out to keep the price down.
 It sounds pretty darn good stock.


----------



## Vitalstatistix

2359glenn said:


> It is a extra I leave out these parts out to keep the price down.
> It sounds pretty darn good stock.


 
 Sign me up for that extra, Glenn!


----------



## whirlwind

jc9394 said:


> The OTL is worth every pennies, just spend another $250ish for better tubes and you will have a kick ass amp.


 
 I am thinking seriously about doing just this.....pairing with ps audio nuwave dac & HD800
  


punit said:


> Also the 5998 switch allows the use of low impedance phones if you use 6336 output tubes.
> 
> For me this is a major + point regarding Glen's OTL as normally you can use only high impd cans with OTL's.


 
 This means Grados could actually work quite well with this switch........this is looking better and better


----------



## punit

whirlwind said:


> I am thinking seriously about doing just this.....pairing with ps audio nuwave dac & HD800
> 
> This means Grados could actually work quite well with this switch........this is looking better and better


 
  
 Glenn has mentioned that only high current rectifiers should be used ( 3DG4, GZ37 & WE422A ) in such case i.e. for driving low impedance phones by using the 5998 switch with 6336 output tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

punit said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I am thinking seriously about doing just this.....pairing with ps audio nuwave dac & HD800
> ...


 

 You can also use 5AU4 & 5AW4 others will work but it will be pushing them to the max.


----------



## jc9394

whirlwind said:


> I am thinking seriously about doing just this.....pairing with ps audio nuwave dac & HD800




Almost like my setup, I'm really happy with Perfect Wave MKII > Glenn OTL > HD800.


----------



## whirlwind

jc9394 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I am thinking seriously about doing just this.....pairing with ps audio nuwave dac & HD800
> ...


 
  
  
 Ahhhh.....very nice.....I am so glad to hear this


----------



## gibosi

Has anyone tried a 5687 as a driver in their OTL? This tube is most notably used in the Audio Note Ongaku along with the 211 and 6072. To my eyes at least, with an adapter, it looks like this tube should work....


----------



## kazsud

jc9394 said:


> Almost like my setup, I'm really happy with Perfect Wave MKII > Glenn OTL > HD800.



Do you think the Peefect Wave MKII can be too forward sounding?


----------



## jc9394

kazsud said:


> Do you think the Peefect Wave MKII can be too forward sounding?




Not at all, I found it very neutral and detail but not clinical.


----------



## wotts

jc9394 said:


> Not at all, I found it very neutral and detail but not clinical.


 
  
  
 +1 I agree with this.


----------



## 2359glenn

Here are a few pictures of my latest amp I am building.
  
 Front with Amphenol military grade 4 pin XLR and 1/4" TRS jacks.
 Gold point stepped attenuator.
  

  

  
 This one shows the 6AS7 to 5998/6336 switch.


----------



## longbowbbs

I like the Basic Black! Great looking amp....As usual Glenn!


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> *I like the Basic Black!* Great looking amp....As usual Glenn!


----------



## kvtaco17

2359glenn said:


> Here are a few pictures of my latest amp I am building.
> 
> Front with Amphenol military grade 4 pin XLR and 1/4" TRS jacks.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I need that!


----------



## Brendanz

2359glenn said:


> Here are a few pictures of my latest amp I am building.
> 
> Front with Amphenol military grade 4 pin XLR and 1/4" TRS jacks.
> 
> ...


 
 Is that the OTL?


----------



## 2359glenn

brendanz said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Here are a few pictures of my latest amp I am building.
> ...


 

 Yes  In a all black chassis.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Yes  In a all black chassis.


 
  
 You're up early Glenn!


----------



## 2359glenn

Always up early to go to work


----------



## whirlwind

Beautiful amp.....just beautiful


----------



## punit

whirlwind said:


> Beautiful amp.....just beautiful


 
 Its called TOTO (short for TOTL OTL)


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Has anyone tried a 5687 as a driver in their OTL? This tube is most notably used in the Audio Note Ongaku along with the 211 and 6072. To my eyes at least, with an adapter, it looks like this tube should work....


 

 Yes, I tested this a long time ago with an adapter Glenn made for me.  It sounds good, like a good 6SN7, but not necessarily better.  I can refresh my memory on the subject if you'd like.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> Yes, I tested this a long time ago with an adapter Glenn made for me.  It sounds good, like a good 6SN7, but not necessarily better.  I can refresh my memory on the subject if you'd like.


 
  
 As good as a good 6SN7 is certainly not bad.   Do you happen to remember which brand(s) you tried? As 5687 can often be found fairly cheaply, I might try a few. Thanks!


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Yes  In a all black chassis.


 
 All Black Chassis: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is something I sought early on with my OTL. Glad to see it emerge.
  
 In other news, "Happy Bastille Day!"


----------



## Clayton SF

Waiting to see how parbaked's wonder amp by Glenn will look like. Actually, wanting to hear it.


----------



## Vitalstatistix

Looks good Glenn!


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> As good as a good 6SN7 is certainly not bad.   Do you happen to remember which brand(s) you tried? As 5687 can often be found fairly cheaply, I might try a few. Thanks!


 

 It's a Tung Sol.  I put it back in tonight.  A fairly different sound from the Brimar 13D1 that's been in the amp for ages now, but it holds its own.  Has a hint of sweetness in the vocals like what I would expect from a Sylvania actually.
  
 I think these have a little bit more gain than a 6SN7 so expect a slight increase in tranny hum depending upon the headphones you are using.
  
 Somebody with the cathode mod needs to try running an all 5998 configuration, including the driver position.  The lower gain would take the noise floor down to inaudible and unless the 5998 is inherently higher distortion than a 6SN7 it should sound really good in theory.  Pretty sure there is enough headroom on the power tranny to do this.  If I get bored I might try it myself.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> It's a Tung Sol.  I put it back in tonight.  A fairly different sound from the Brimar 13D1 that's been in the amp for ages now, but it holds its own.  Has a hint of sweetness in the vocals like what I would expect from a Sylvania actually.
> 
> I think these have a little bit more gain than a 6SN7 so expect a slight increase in tranny hum depending upon the headphones you are using.
> 
> Somebody with the cathode mod needs to try running an all 5998 configuration, including the driver position.  The lower gain would take the noise floor down to inaudible and unless the 5998 is inherently higher distortion than a 6SN7 it should sound really good in theory.  Pretty sure there is enough headroom on the power tranny to do this.  If I get bored I might try it myself.


 
  
 Thanks for taking the time to do this. 
  
 I hope to have several different brands of 5687 on their way to me shortly. And according to the manufacturer's datasheet, both the 5687 and 6SN7 (and 13D1, as well) have a gain of about 20, so in that regard, they should be about the same.
  
 And since my OTL is still somewhere in Glenn's queue, I will have to leave it to others to try an all-5998 configuration.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Xcalibur255

I was struck by how grain free the 5687 sounded last night.  It doesn't capture the note decay and micro details quite like the Brimar, but it was very easy to listen deep into the music.  Lush without sounding overtly colored, with clear upfront vocals.  I think that might have been the most enjoyable listening session I've ever had with my Beyers.  I plan to leave the tube in the amp for a while now..... not sure why I didn't give it more of a chance originally.  The fact that it pairs well with the DT880s means it might not have the right synergy for darker headphones though.  A listening test with the LCD-2s is probably warranted.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> I was struck by how grain free the 5687 sounded last night.  It doesn't capture the note decay and micro details quite like the Brimar, but it was very easy to listen deep into the music.  Lush without sounding overtly colored, with clear upfront vocals.  I think that might have been the most enjoyable listening session I've ever had with my Beyers.  I plan to leave the tube in the amp for a while now..... not sure why I didn't give it more of a chance originally.  The fact that it pairs well with the DT880s means it might not have the right synergy for darker headphones though.  A listening test with the LCD-2s is probably warranted.


 

 You still use that old OTL one of the first


----------



## Silent One

Out here, I'm really looking forward to trying your next gen amps...


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> You still use that old OTL one of the first


 

 Of course.  It's a great amp and will always be worth using.
  
 I've discovered over time that _Kanade _needs to be on for a long time, like 3 hours or more, to really sound good.  The difference between warmed up and not warmed up is much greater than with other amps I have had, so you sort of have to "make a date" with her ahead of time and some days I can't accommodate that.
  
 I would say both amps get used about equally.


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> Of course.  It's a great amp and will always be worth using.
> 
> I've discovered over time that _Kanade _needs to be on for a long time, like 3 hours or more, to really sound good.  The difference between warmed up and not warmed up is much greater than with other amps I have had, so you sort of have to "make a date" with her ahead of time and some days I can't accommodate that.
> 
> I would say both amps get used about equally.


 
 I could see _Kanade_ demanding this of you with eloquence and deservedly so. And when time permits, well worth the extra ceremonial steps taken.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> I've discovered over time that _Kanade _needs to be on for a long time, like 3 hours or more, to really sound good.  The difference between warmed up and not warmed up is much greater than with other amps I have had, so you sort of have to "make a date" with her ahead of time and some days I can't accommodate that.


 
  
 I might guess_ Kanade_ = 奏で ?


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> I might guess_ Kanade_ = 奏で ?


 
  

  

 Spelled as 奏音

 It roughly means "playing music" is my understanding.  And it's a pretty name either way.


----------



## jc9394

gibosi said:


> I might guess_ Kanade_ = 奏で ?


 
  
  


xcalibur255 said:


> Spelled as 奏音
> 
> It roughly means "playing music" is my understanding.  And it's a pretty name either way.


 
  
  
 With my limited Asian languages understanding, you both are correct.  "gibosi" is Japanese translation while "xcalibur255" is Chinese.


----------



## gibosi

My apologies if I am telling you more than you want to know....  
  
 Written Japanese uses the Chinese characters (Kanji), but the sounds are almost always different. 奏 pronounced "kana" is uniquely Japanese, and is commonly used as a verb, 奏でる (kanaderu), to play music. 奏 pronounced "sou" from the ancient Chinese is also common, for example, 演奏 (ensou), a musical performance. However, 奏音 is not a standard Japanese word. That is, you will not find it in a dictionary. But when it comes to names, anything goes! So putting 奏 (play music) and 音 (sound) together makes perfect sense as a name: "Kanade".
  
 Also, 奏音 doesn't show up in online Chinese dictionaries either, but if it was a standard Chinese word, it would likely have a different pronunciation,"zouyin", in modern Chinese.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> My apologies if I am telling you more than you want to know....
> 
> Written Japanese uses the Chinese characters (Kanji), but the sounds are almost always different. 奏 pronounced "kana" is uniquely Japanese, and is commonly used as a verb, 奏でる (kanaderu), to play music. 奏 pronounced "sou" from the ancient Chinese is also common, for example, 演奏 (ensou), a musical performance. However, 奏音 is not a standard Japanese word. That is, you will not find it in a dictionary. But when it comes to names, anything goes! So putting 奏 (play music) and 音 (sound) together makes perfect sense as a name: "Kanade".
> 
> Also, 奏音 doesn't show up in online Chinese dictionaries either, but if it was a standard Chinese word, it would likely have a different pronunciation,"zouyin", in modern Chinese.


 
  
 It's nice to have my understanding confirmed by another person, so thank you.  This agrees with what I researched originally actually.  It's in the "naming sense" that I'm using the kanji here.


----------



## gibosi

A 1956 Tung-Sol 5687WA arrived today. I put it into my test amp and as *Xcalibur255* observed, it is quite liquid and fluid, with no grain, and the mid-range is rather forward and lush. To my ears, through HD700's, it sounds very good. A keeper.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I fired up the 300B again last night, it is so incredibly good with the orthos. I keeps surprising me each time


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> I fired up the 300B again last night, it is so incredibly good with the orthos. I keeps surprising me each time


 

 I am glad you still like it.
 That C3g drives the 300B so well don't know why anyone would want to use a 6SN7
 to drive the 300B.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> I am glad you still like it.
> That C3g drives the 300B so well don't know why anyone would want to use a 6SN7
> to drive the 300B.


 

 I am still loving mine, too. How are the C3g tubes selling these days? Still very affordable?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Here they are going for 25€/piece. cheapest I can get them anyway but all NOS.


----------



## gibosi

I have no idea if anyone other than perhaps Xcalibur255 might be interested in these...
  
 Received a 1959 Raytheon 5687WA and a Sylvania Gold Brand 5687 with gold pins, probably manufactured in the 1960's, or maybe the early 1970's. (It is perhaps worth noting that Gold Brand, GE 5* and RCA Command were simply milspec JAN tubes repackaged for the civilian consumer market.) I haven't had a chance to do more than ensure that these light up and play, so can't yet say how they compare to the Tung-Sol.
  
                                        Raytheon                                                                     Sylvania


----------



## jc9394

Finally have time to power on the OTL amp for the first time over a month, totally forgot how good this amp driving the HD800.  Gonna be a long night and I have conference call at 6am in the morning.


----------



## Silent One

What's that slogan in the Northeast..."America runs on Dunkin'."


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> What's that slogan in the Northeast..."America runs on Dunkin'."


 
  
  
 Dunkin don't do it for me, I need to power on my lowly Nepresso for a triple espresso... or may be a heathy choice of 20 yrs Pur Erh


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Dunkin don't do it for me, I need to power on my lowly Nepresso for a triple espresso... or may be a heathy choice of 20 yrs Pur Erh


 





 True restoration will be the music heard the night before; will see you through...


----------



## talmlikeabalm

Hey guys I noticed some RK60 tubes with adapters for sale on ebay

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RK60-1641-Vacuum-Tube-With-Tube-Adapter-To-Use-As-5U4G-/301251841309?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4624024d1d


----------



## Ultrainferno

talmlikeabalm said:


> Hey guys I noticed some RK60 tubes with adapters for sale on ebay
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RK60-1641-Vacuum-Tube-With-Tube-Adapter-To-Use-As-5U4G-/301251841309?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4624024d1d


 
  
 Thanks but $85, that's just ridiculous


----------



## rosgr63

gibosi said:


> I have no idea if anyone other than perhaps Xcalibur255 might be interested in these...


----------



## gibosi

That's very interesting! It appears that you are using a 6SN7 as a driver and the two 5687's as output/buffers. I have heard may good things about Single Power amps. It's unfortunate that the company was unable to survive.....


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Thanks but $85, that's just ridiculous


 
  
 Those tubes were $10 each about a year ago.


----------



## blitzpirate

clayton sf said:


> Those tubes were $10 each about a year ago.


 
 I bought the RK60 @ $30 and $43 shipped for the Glenn's adapter so I guess $85 is not that far off.


----------



## Clayton SF

Stavros!
 parbaked delivered your gift to me last night over pizza, wine, and martinis.
  
 Thank you for the beer mug.
 It holds a can of beer perfectly!
 See....


----------



## Ultrainferno

Such nice people here


----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> Stavros!
> parbaked delivered your gift to me last night over pizza, wine, and martinis.
> 
> Thank you for the beer mug.
> ...


 
  
 You are most welcome.
 It's hand made close to my place.
  
 BTW it's for the margaritas, not the beer...............


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> You are most welcome.
> It's hand made close to my place.
> 
> BTW it's for the margaritas, not the beer...............


 
 I think I can fit a half bottle of Sauternes!

  
 Perfect...


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Sweeeeeet!
  
 I'll be right over!


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> ^ Sweeeeeet!
> 
> I'll be right over!


 
 Get on up!
 Dave and Kate are coming at 6:30 for Sunday Gravy...I didn't want to drag you out on a school night!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Get on up!
> Dave and Kate are coming at 6:30 for Sunday Gravy...I didn't want to drag you out on a school night!


 
  
 Dang. You know me too well. I'll pass on this invite (once again). I'm making Kung Pao Chicken tonight. Have fun and tell Kate I said hello. I haven't met Dave yet.
  
 I just took a blueberry clafoutis out of the oven. It is cooling under the window sill. 
  
 Enjoy your Sunday evening. Give Midori a kiss. Pat Wilma on the butt. And high-five yourself.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Enjoy your Sunday evening.


 
 Dave brings nice wine.
 He's going to be bummed when I whip out my Stavros mug!
 Our pot is full....we save you some...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm coming. Is it too late to show up at your doorstep at 6:30? I'll make it home okay.


----------



## wotts

All this great food is making my fast food dinner and PBR feel inadequate.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> parbaked said:
> 
> 
> > Get on up!
> ...


 
 My wife just made an awesome blueberry pie. She picked them and made the pie that afternoon....Nothing beats fresh blueberries!


----------



## rosgr63

These dishes look so good..............I am jealous now!!!!!!!
  
 Here's the GR10 with a U52


----------



## daigo

longbowbbs said:


> Nothing beats fresh blueberries!


 

  
 So true, nothing beats fresh blueberries.


----------



## Clayton SF

daigo said:


> So true, nothing beats fresh blueberries.


 
  
 That looks incredible. I was able to show up at parbaked's beautiful home for Sunday Gravy Night last night. Here are some of his Past Gravy Nights.
  
 Thank you, parbaked. I can now sleep soundly at night--and during the day too.
  
 parbaked first browned some incredible cuts of meat. And the rest is history:


----------



## whirlwind

I am not sure if I want one of these amps more....or some of this food  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Looks wonderful


----------



## Silent One

The default selection in this thread is BOTH!


----------



## Brendanz

rosgr63 said:


> These dishes look so good..............I am jealous now!!!!!!!
> 
> Here's the GR10 with a U52


 
 What is amp is this?


----------



## rosgr63

This is one of Glenn's OTL creations.


----------



## Ultrainferno

But it was a one of a kind


----------



## rosgr63

That's right, but there is an offspring that Glenn offers a GR-Super 8.


----------



## Ultrainferno

And that one is still on my list as soon as the funds are back. Damn car and house renovations


----------



## parbaked

ultrainferno said:


> And that one is still on my list.


 
 Yours will be a GR-Ultra 8!


----------



## 2359glenn

6  6BL7s for the output tubes and it can use 2 or 4  6AS7s or 2 6336 or 2  5998
 a fun amp.  Plus 6SN7 or 12SN7 or 25SN7/1633/13D1.


----------



## rosgr63

Driver: 6SN7 or 12SN7 or  25SN7 or  ECC32 or  ECC33
  
 Rectifier: 3DG4 or 5AU4
  
 Output: 8 X 6SN7's or 6 X 6BL7's or 2/4 X 6AS7's or 2 X 6336's


----------



## Xcalibur255

After years of waiting, I finally got my speakers today.  Right out of the box they are amazing.  Even with the system incomplete (cheapo pre-amp and junk interconnects feeding the setup right now), they have the same kind of detail resolution and finesse as the headphone rig does. 
  
 I think these are the speakers I can/will grow old with.


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> After years of waiting, I finally got my speakers today.  Right out of the box they are amazing.  Even with the system incomplete (cheapo pre-amp and junk interconnects feeding the setup right now), they have the same kind of detail resolution and finesse as the headphone rig does.
> 
> I think these are the speakers I can/will grow old with.


 
 Great to hear! Which ones did you eventually get? Our last exchange (long ago) I seem to remember you narrowed it to two choices


----------



## rosgr63

Cobgratulations Tyrell, good to know you like your speakers.


----------



## 2359glenn

He should try hooking them to his 45 amp


----------



## rosgr63

What about hooking them here for some sweet sounds?


----------



## 2359glenn

Ah birthday cake


----------



## rosgr63

Irene's name day chocolate and caramel & almonds ice cream cake.


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> What about hooking them here for some sweet sounds?


 
 you´re hungry!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Getting ready to ship another OTL amp so I tried it with a bunch of different tubes.
 Good thing it is not hot here I have to use the 230 volt air conditioner outlet to run it after I switched it
 to 230 volt for overseas use.
  
 Here it is with a 596 & 6F8 driver
  

  
 Here it is with a WE422A and a 6F8 driver by the way the WE422A with adapter is the best rectifier
  
 It just costs as much as the amp. That is crazy.
  

  
 Here it is with the WE422A rectifier 6F8 driver and 6336 outputs
  

  
 And with another one of my favorites the 5AU4 large plate fat bottle with the 6336 outputs
 This is one of the few rectifiers that can be used safely with the 6336 outputs.
  

  
 Another neat rectifier the 5AW4 it has neat construction and sounds good
 The plate surrounds the filament.


----------



## Neogeo333

Another great amp Glenn!!!, Glad to see the 4pin XLR getting use more.


----------



## wotts

That is pretty amazing Glenn. Are there switch settings for the different tubes other than for the outputs?


----------



## warchild

Very pretty stuff.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Very nice!


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice amp and tubes!!!


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> That is pretty amazing Glenn. Are there switch settings for the different tubes other than for the outputs?


 
 +1
 Wonder who the lucky recipient is?


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Another great amp Glenn!!!, Glad to see the 4pin XLR getting use more.


 

 Everybody seems to want the 4 pin XLR now.
 That is the same chassis and XLR I an using for your amp just larger.


----------



## 2359glenn

wotts said:


> That is pretty amazing Glenn. Are there switch settings for the different tubes other than for the outputs?


 

 No just the outputs it has the 5998/6336 switch.
 The next couple of amps will also have the 6SN7, 12SN7, 25SN7/1633/13D1 switch.


----------



## Clayton SF

Once again, Glenn, your amps are very, very, nice!
  
 I'm going out with parbaked tonight (a SUNDAY!). We're crossing the Golden Gate Bridge to venture beyond!
  
 Leaving for The Netherlands on Tuesday and getting together with Ultra for a 2-day fest! I can't wait. It's been a year.
  
 Have a great day, y'all.


----------



## Ultrainferno

C is your suitcase packed?


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> C is your suitcase packed?


 
  
 No. But I'm going to do that today. I hope.


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton are you packing before or after you go out????????????


----------



## parbaked

Clayton can't pack me in his suitcase until after I drive us home from dinner!


----------



## Clayton SF

I am letting parbaked babysit my OTL Glenn Amp while I'm gone. Hey, which tubes did you want with that amp? I have 2 different rectifiers. I'll loan you both. I've also got that humongous Russian tube.


----------



## wotts

clayton sf said:


> I am letting parbaked babysit my OTL Glenn Amp while I'm gone. Hey, which tubes did you want with that amp? I have 2 different rectifiers. I'll loan you both. I've also got that* humongous Russian tube*.




I ran across a lot of those a while back. I liked the tube in my OTL, so I bought them all. :rolleyes:


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Hey, which tubes did you want with that amp?


 
 Just one set that you like...and maybe the ginormous Russian...


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Once again, Glenn, your amps are very, very, nice!
> 
> I'm going out with parbaked tonight (a SUNDAY!). We're crossing the Golden Gate Bridge to venture beyond!
> 
> ...


 

 Clayton
 Can you stow me away in your back pack just like having a monkey on your back.
 Then I can rent a car in the Netherlands and start driving due south and visit my buddy in southern Europe again.


----------



## jc9394

Question for European guys, is there any tubes store around Zurich area?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Stavros or Oskari maybe know one, but I haven't heard of any Swiss tube stores yet. Sorry. Let's hope they know one.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Question for European guys, is there any tubes store around Zurich area?


 
 You Zurich bound before year-end?


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> You Zurich bound before year-end?


 
  
  
 Currently at Konstanz now and will head to Zurich this Friday before flying back.


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> Stavros or Oskari maybe know one, but I haven't heard of any Swiss tube stores yet. Sorry. Let's hope they know one.


 
  
 Thanks, I will be patience.  I have few more days before heading there.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Currently at Konstanz now and will head to Zurich this Friday before flying back.


 
 Outstanding! Hope you find some vintage glass and have a safe return.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Outstanding! Hope you find some vintage glass and have a safe return.


 
  
  
 If I can't find any, I will try to find some in Osaka or Hong Kong next week.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> If I can't find any, I will try to find some in Osaka or Hong Kong next week.


 






 I envy your frequent flyer miles and I'm an Air Force Brat! Some day I'll get to the Land of the Rising Sun!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I envy your frequent flyer miles and I'm an Air Force Brat! Some day I'll get to the Land of the Rising Sun!


 
  
  
 It comes with a price but with the miles I will fly the family to Disney...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> It comes with a price but with the miles I will fly the family to Disney...


 
 Anaheim or Orlando?


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Anaheim or Orlando?


 
  
 To be decided by the boss but I think it will most likely in Orlando.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> To be decided by the boss but I think it will most likely in Orlando.


 
 Deferring to the boss creates a more peaceful listening room.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Clayton
> Can you stow me away in your back pack just like having a monkey on your back.
> Then I can rent a car in the Netherlands and start driving due south and visit my buddy in southern Europe again.


 
  
 What a great thought..........
 I am sure you can fit more people in the car.
  


ultrainferno said:


> Stavros or Oskari maybe know one, but I haven't heard of any Swiss tube stores yet. Sorry. Let's hope they know one.


 
  
 Sorry Lieven, I never got past the restaurants, never looked for tubes in Switzerland, too busy eating and driving around.
 But I have some Swiss friends who sell tubes.


----------



## Skylab

The only true / significant NOS tube store I have ever seen is in Akihabara in Tokyo. One of my favorite places to go


----------



## Oskari

ultrainferno said:


> Stavros or Oskari maybe know one, but I haven't heard of any Swiss tube stores yet. Sorry. Let's hope they know one.


 
  
 The only one I can recall is (was?) Micronetics, in Geneva, I think. The website seems to have disappeared.
  

http://www.micronetics-trading.com
  
 There could be boutiques with some tubes available in Zurich but I've never looked for them while in town.


----------



## gibosi

Glenn,
  
 Do you use constant current sources (CCS) as plate loads in any of your amps? What do you see as the pros and cons of these devices?


----------



## bonesnv

2359glenn said:


> Here are a few pictures of my latest amp I am building.
> 
> Front with Amphenol military grade 4 pin XLR and 1/4" TRS jacks.
> Gold point stepped attenuator.
> ...


 
  
 That is fantastic looking.  Love the simple form to the design and the black I think really makes it stand out.  One of these days I may have to be talked into one.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Glenn,
> 
> Do you use constant current sources (CCS) as plate loads in any of your amps? What do you see as the pros and cons of these devices?


 

 No I believe in the Kiss principle. (Keep it simple stupid)
 Really 1/2 of the 6AS7 is a CCS for the other. And I run the 6AS7s at high current.
 To drive low impedance head phones especially if using 6336s
 Even worse if using 6336s. A  SS  CCS would require large heat sinks and produce allot
 of heat under the chassis.


----------



## gibosi

Thanks for the explanation. I think I understand. So, for example, as the Crack has only one 6AS7, using one of the triodes as a CCS is simply not possible. And as the Crack doesn't run a lot of current through the 6AS7, a SS CCS is a much more viable, and perhaps, attractive option.


----------



## jc9394

oskari said:


> The only one I can recall is (was?) Micronetics, in Geneva, I think. The website seems to have disappeared.
> 
> 
> http://www.micronetics-trading.com
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks for the info, I think I will wait until next week when I'm in Asia.  My coworker tells me how much more expensive everything is in Zurich, I don't think I can afford anything there.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi from Wolvenstraat 10.
  
 2 Belgians and 1 American will meet again in Amsterdam! I can't wait to discuss tubes 
  
 parbaked: where are those fantastic photos of the Glenn Amp OTL?
  
 I've got to go meet someone for dinner and drinks-- Tot ziens!


----------



## rosgr63

Have a great time Clayton, enjoy my friend!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I wonder what Belgians Clayton is meeting tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I'm looking forward to 2 fun days in Amsterdam, I'll try posting a picture of us before we're drunk.


----------



## parbaked

Have Fun Clayton!!!
  
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> parbaked: where are those fantastic photos of the Glenn Amp OTL?


 
  
 I haven't had enough time to play yet...but here you go...
  
 Clayton's very early OTL:

  

  

  

  
 Small chassis...big sound....


----------



## Ultrainferno

He misses his baby


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Hi from Wolvenstraat 10.
> 
> 2 Belgians and 1 American will meet again in Amsterdam! I can't wait to discuss tubes
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Have fun Clayton, have more beers for me.  I'm "beer" out this week, I drank more beers this week than I normally drink in two months.


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> I wonder what Belgians Clayton is meeting tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 We prefer the *after* photos Lieven...............
  
 S Nice photos, it's a great amp, let us know how you like it.
  
 C I don't thing you'll be getting your amp back, so better have a few extra drinks and say goodbye.........


----------



## Silent One

Shoot, if I was out that way for breakfast - _breakfast time in L.A. is_ _closing in fast_ - I'd opt for a nice Belgian Waffle and French bubbly. And since it's Friday, I'd have the Champagne splashed with sumthin' sinful perhaps.


----------



## rosgr63

That's nice, very nice.........


----------



## Silent One

Yes, yes it is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Currently_ in-session_ but I just made myself hungry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 May end it early for an early breakfast.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Yes, yes it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 hope your breakfast is better than my airport food...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> hope your breakfast is better than my airport food...


 
 Yeah...but food at your destinations more than make up for it.


----------



## parbaked

Today's pizza is a Napoletana from Pizzeria Del Fina on California St.

  
 Tomato, anchovy, caper, olive hot peppers and oregano...


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Today's pizza is a Napoletana from Pizzeria Del Fina on California St.
> 
> 
> Tomato, anchovy, caper, olive hot peppers and oregano...


 
 WOWZA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that's my kinda Pizza!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Greetings from Amsterdam!
 We lift our glasses to all!
 Wishing y'all were here with us!
 C & U


----------



## Ultrainferno

Was great seeing you again C. Next year: my place!


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> Today's pizza is a Napoletana from Pizzeria Del Fina on California St.
> 
> 
> Tomato, anchovy, caper, olive hot peppers and oregano...


 
  
  
 Looks so good.........
  
  


clayton sf said:


> Greetings from Amsterdam!
> We lift our glasses to all!
> Wishing y'all were here with us!
> C & U


 
  
 I bet you had a great time, C enjoy your holiday.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Greetings from Amsterdam!
> We lift our glasses to all!
> Wishing y'all were here with us!
> C & U


 




 Were we too late to view the food selections displayed before you or not yet arrived at the table? Or maybe I'm just hungry and y'all simply met for drinks...


----------



## rosgr63

Not long now Aldo, not long...........


----------



## parbaked

Drive carefully Stavros......


----------



## Clayton SF

Morning snack in Haarlem. Before listening to some vinyl and visiting this museum: http://www.historischmuseumhaarlem.nl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=527:haarlem-vinyl-stad&catid=15:home


----------



## rosgr63

I'll be on Auto Pilot.
 I like your signature S, how very true!!!!!
  
 Is that the Tube Museum C?


----------



## jc9394

This is as close I will go to SF this year, at SFO now waiting for my flight to Japan.


----------



## Ultrainferno

a man of the world!. Have a good flight


----------



## daigo

jc9394 said:


> This is as close I will go to SF this year, at SFO now waiting for my flight to Japan.


 
 I live very close to SFO and would like to sneak into your suitcase.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> This is as close I will go to SF this year, at SFO now waiting for my flight to Japan.


 




 We gonna get together one of these days. I'll be NYC bound at some point...


----------



## Silent One

daigo said:


> I live very close to SFO and would like to sneak into your suitcase.


 
 +1
 Can't wait to travel and see Japan.


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> This is as close I will go to SF this year, at SFO now waiting for my flight to Japan.


 
 Where are you staying?
 Maybe I can steer you to some fun food if you're in Tokyo and have time.
  


silent one said:


> Can't wait to travel and see Japan.


 
 We're going for New Years...Tokyo, Kamakura, Kyoto, Osaka...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Using up the last of my free miles...


----------



## parbaked

whoops


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> We're going for New Years...Tokyo, Kamakura, Kyoto, Osaka...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 I'm with you!
  


parbaked said:


> whoops


 





 Land of the Rising Sun got you excited, yeah?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Today is a sad day. I am moving all the headphones and amps I had in the living room back upstairs to my office. No more comfy listening for now.
 "Why?" you ask? Well I kind of screwed up with the Gf and I had to agree on getting cat. My own fault I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Glenn, can you make me a cat proof tube amp?


----------



## kvtaco17

ultrainferno said:


> Today is a sad day. I am moving all the headphones and amps I had in the living room back upstairs to my office. No more comfy listening for now.
> "Why?" you ask? Well I kind of screwed up with the Gf and I had to agree on getting cat. My own fault I guess
> 
> 
> ...


 
 just make a cage to cover the top of the amp... easy enough lol


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Today is a sad day. I am moving all the headphones and amps I had in the living room back upstairs to my office. No more comfy listening for now.
> "Why?" you ask? Well I kind of screwed up with the Gf and I had to agree on getting cat. My own fault I guess
> 
> 
> ...


 
 In the very brief moment it takes a '5998' to arc, I went from:





 Yea kitty





 Wait...





 _"No kitty, Silver Interconnects and yarn are two different things!!!"_





 $$$


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> Where are you staying?
> Maybe I can steer you to some fun food if you're in Tokyo and have time.
> 
> We're going for New Years...Tokyo, Kamakura, Kyoto, Osaka...
> ...


 
  
 At Osaka now, any recommendations?


----------



## Skylab

jc9394 said:


> This is as close I will go to SF this year, at SFO now waiting for my flight to Japan.




If you're going to Tokyo I hope you have time to go to Yodobashi Akiba in Akihabara. Going to the high end audio floor is one of the most fun things crazies like us can do.


----------



## daigo

skylab said:


> If you're going to Tokyo I hope you have time to go to Yodobashi Akiba in Akihabara. Going to the high end audio floor is one of the most fun things crazies like us can do.


 
 Scribbles notes for a possible trip to Japan next winter.  Was planning to combine a week in Hokkaido to snowboard with a week hitting Tokyo/Kyoto.


----------



## wotts

ultrainferno said:


> Today is a sad day. I am moving all the headphones and amps I had in the living room back upstairs to my office. No more comfy listening for now.
> "Why?" you ask? Well I kind of screwed up with the Gf and I had to agree on getting cat. My own fault I guess
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have been pretty luck with my two furballs. They leave my cables alone and haven't been interested in my tubes.


----------



## Ultrainferno

wotts said:


> I have been pretty luck with my two furballs. They leave my cables alone and haven't been interested in my tubes.


 
  
 Everyone, meet "Gateau" (French for cake)


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Today is a sad day. I am moving all the headphones and amps I had in the living room back upstairs to my office. No more comfy listening for now.
> "Why?" you ask? Well I kind of screwed up with the Gf and I had to agree on getting cat. My own fault I guess
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have a cat and don't have a problem with tube amps.
 My 300B amps are always on even the TV sound plays through the amps.
 We like impact when we watch movies.
  
 Once he burns his paw on a hot 300B or 5U4 he will stay away from the amp.
  
 BTW nice looking cat.


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> Everyone, meet "Gateau" (French for cake)


 
  
  
 Very nice cat, mine loves playing with tube boxes and rolling the tubes as much as I do........


----------



## Ultrainferno

That looks like a big cat Stavros 
 It's my first cat since I was like 7, I'm surprised of the joy it brings. I'm not letting her anywhere near my gear though, she's got enough toys of her own


----------



## rosgr63

She's 16, but still as naughty as a kitten...................


----------



## Xcalibur255

I miss being able to have a cat.........


----------



## wotts

Mine are sometimes naughty:
  

  
  
 Exhibit A: Karma on top of my Polk tower.
  
 I need to get another do-dad to put on the speaker. I have one on the left channel and it seems to keep them off of the top.


----------



## rosgr63

The cat looks so happy up there........


----------



## bonesnv

I am more entertained by what appears to be a Super Nintendo on the shelf.  
  
 Game of GoldenEye anyone?


----------



## wotts

bonesnv said:


> I am more entertained by what appears to be a Super Nintendo on the shelf.
> 
> Game of GoldenEye anyone?


 
  
 Tecmo Super Bowl!


----------



## MJS242

ultrainferno said:


> Everyone, meet "Gateau" (French for cake)


----------



## Silent One




----------



## bonesnv

mjs242 said:


> Ahhh, cats and tube amps... This can be a problem sometimes, especially in the winter...


 
  
  
 Mine does that but with my DirectTV receiver.  Luckily my tube amp is out of the way, or she would do the same thing.


----------



## jc9394

Tonight's dinner...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Tonight's dinner...


 
 Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego jc9394?


----------



## kvtaco17

So I want a new DAC... what do my Glenn OTL and my cans (see my sig) want... I'm currently running an AudioGD 11.32 with the upgrades...
  
 I'm considering the Schiit Gungnir, AudioGD NFB 27/NFB 7, and the Yulong D8...


----------



## punit

I am currently using AGD NFB 7 with my Glenn OTL, great match.


----------



## Ultrainferno

So many good DACs out there. I'm hooked to the Resonessence Labs for the moment.


----------



## Ultrainferno

silent one said:


> Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego jc9394?


 
  
 I so need to find that game online again. Where are the days. What year was that, do you remember?


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> I so need to find that game online again. Where are the days. What year was that, do you remember?


 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_in_the_World_is_Carmen_Sandiego%3F


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's it! How awesome. Do you remember this one?
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leisure_Suit_Larry_in_the_Land_of_the_Lounge_Lizards
  
 that was fun too, never got to finishing it


----------



## wotts

I played LSL 3 a little, but I had a cracked copy that didn't play right. I did play a lot of the Space Quest games from that same era. I really liked those.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Those were the days. The days, I tell you!


----------



## Neogeo333

What?  I thought were all Pitfall, Galaga and Pacman from the Atari days.


----------



## Neogeo333

Talking about games, my kids came from NY to visit me and they wanted a Wii  U and couple of games.  Total 460.00.  Kids these days.  At least they have good grades.


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> That's it! How awesome. Do you remember this one?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leisure_Suit_Larry_in_the_Land_of_the_Lounge_Lizards
> 
> that was fun too, never got to finishing it


 
 No, I didn't get none of that action.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


wotts said:


> I played LSL 3 a little, but I had a cracked copy that didn't play right. I did play a lot of the Space Quest games from that same era. I really liked those.


 
 Skipped SQ too!
  


neogeo333 said:


> Talking about games, my kids came from NY to visit me and they wanted a Wii  U and couple of games.  Total 460.00.  Kids these days.  *At least they have good grades.*


----------



## Neogeo333

How high were anyone's AOL 3.5 floppies?
 I think one time I had like 50 of them.


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> S Nice photos, it's a great amp, let us know how you like it.
> 
> C I don't thing you'll be getting your amp back, so better have a few extra drinks and say goodbye.........


 
 Thanks Stavros. The OTL has found a nice home in my office.

  
 It is a fabulous amp even with $10 tubes. Drives both the HD600 and Grados (surprise) really well.
 I haven't had time to roll the more precious tubes but I did make one modification:

 Clayton may not get her back, but I'll buy him some goodbye beverages!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> I haven't had time to roll the more precious tubes *but I did make one modification:*
> 
> 
> Clayton may not get her back, but I'll buy him some goodbye beverages!


 




  
 Remember, deliver the non-returnable bad news _after _the flow of drinks.


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> That's it! How awesome. Do you remember this one?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leisure_Suit_Larry_in_the_Land_of_the_Lounge_Lizards
> 
> that was fun too, never got to finishing it


 
 I have the whole LL set around the archive somewhere......


----------



## Ultrainferno

longbowbbs said:


> I have the whole LL set around the archive somewhere......


 
  
 I'm interested if you ever find the time


----------



## wotts

ultrainferno said:


> I'm interested if you ever find the time


----------



## wotts

On a side note, I put together a 386DX MS-DOS 6.0 based computer to play old games on. Star Control II, Pax Imperia, Duke Nukem 1 and 2...all the good ones. Oooh..I have Utopia around somewhere too.


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's great, so many memories. I also played a lot of Lemmings and Ironman


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> Thanks Stavros. The OTL has found a nice home in my office.
> 
> 
> It is a fabulous amp even with $10 tubes. Drives both the HD600 and Grados (surprise) really well.
> ...


 
  
 Looks so cool Steven, sorry Clayton, better luck next time...........


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego jc9394?


 
  
  
 Finally back... for now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  no time for tubes hunting...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> *Finally back... for now*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Grab sumthin' cold!


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> Finally back... for now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It looks like you ate well...that is equally important.
 I need food tips for Osaka for our Jan trip.


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Remember, deliver the non-returnable bad news _after _the flow of drinks.


 
 The first thing Clayton asks for is a drink!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> The first thing Clayton asks for is a drink!


 
 From my vantage point in SoCal, it looks like the OTL stays put.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Grab sumthin' cold!


 
  
 Yep, a big ice water.  Drank way too much in Germany and Japan.  Need to detox.  
  


parbaked said:


> It looks like you ate well...that is equally important.
> I need food tips for Osaka for our Jan trip.


 
  
 Where are you staying in Osaka?  The Kobe beef BBQ are great and it is not a tourist trap and I also have a great sushi place too.  Scored this in HK, it is so much cheaper.


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> The first thing Clayton asks for is a drink!


 
  
 The second thing I will ask for is my OTL!


----------



## parbaked

Today's pizza lunch is again from Delfina Pizzeria on California St in SF.
  
 To start - padron peppers with fried local anchovies and lemon oil:
  

  
 Then Panna Pizza = tomato, cream, basil and shaved parmigiano 
  

  
 Life's good...


----------



## Silent One

Gimme some of dat Pizza!


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> Today's pizza lunch is again from Delfina Pizzeria on California St in SF.
> 
> To start - padron peppers with fried local anchovies and lemon oil:
> 
> ...


 
 The Food looks wonderful !!!!!!
 When do you want a OTL   S or are you just keeping Clayton's .


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> The Food looks wonderful !!!!!!
> When do you want a OTL   S or are you just keeping Clayton's .


 
 I was waiting for the Puttanesca Experimental to get sorted so I'm keeping Clayton's amp until you come visit and deliver me my own.
 We're going to pay you in pizza, tequila and prime rib (bubbly if SO shows up) so you and L need to plan to stay for a few days...at least!!


----------



## Silent One

Bubbly...definitely French bubbly.


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> I was waiting for the Puttanesca Experimental to get sorted so I'm keeping Clayton's amp until you come visit and deliver me my own.
> We're going to pay you in pizza, tequila and prime rib (bubbly if SO shows up) so you and L need to plan to stay for a few days...at least!!


 
  
 I am back from visiting with Ultra in Amsterdam (which by the way was way way too much fun). So, parbaked, you may now return my OTL.


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Bubbly...definitely French bubbly.


 
 We have an assortment of French and others on reserve...just in case:


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The Food looks wonderful !!!!!!
> ...


 

 OK   can't get good pizza in NC. I am from NYC so I love good Pizza.


----------



## 2359glenn

Not big on bubbly but love tequila I normally drink Corralejo.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> Not big on bubbly but love tequila I normally drink Corralejo.


 
 Then you're going to LOVE Rachel!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > Bubbly...definitely French bubbly.
> ...


 
  
 I'd engage the lady in the rear (Veuve Clicquot). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Curiously, though Tequila isn't my thang, what would a glass of Champagne be called that's splashed with Tequila?


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Then you're going to LOVE Rachel!


 

 You went! Did she miss me? Okay. Well, maybe not.


----------



## musicman59

2359glenn said:


> Not big on bubbly but love tequila I normally drink Corralejo.


 
 Glenn,
 You need to try Herradura Reposado and if you like something really smooth then Agavero. 
 BTW, Always keep your tequila bottles in the freezer. It tastes much better and gets smoother that way.


----------



## wotts

musicman59 said:


> Glenn,
> You need to try Herradura Reposado and if you like something really smooth then Agavero.
> BTW, Always keep your tequila bottles in the freezer. It tastes much better and gets smoother that way.
> 
> ...


----------



## musicman59

wotts said:


>


 
  
 Tim,
 Come over for a listening session and you can start trying the Agavero. It is actually liquor of Tequila. Really smooth.
         +   +  =  GREAT TIME!!


----------



## wotts

Well, I don't know.....
  
  
 Ok, I lied. I can't turn that down. As soon as my HE-6s are back from Robert, it's a party!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Bubbly...definitely French bubbly.


 
  
  
 I have plenty on the plane...


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> We have an assortment of French and others on reserve...just in case:


 
  
 I need to get some Kachina...
  


parbaked said:


> Today's pizza lunch is again from Delfina Pizzeria on California St in SF.
> 
> To start - padron peppers with fried local anchovies and lemon oil:
> 
> ...


 
  
  


parbaked said:


> Then you're going to LOVE Rachel!


 
  
  
 ok ok, I'm coming... need to stop at SF for at least few days on lay over...


----------



## kazsud

She is missing in her lower extremities.


----------



## longbowbbs

Now I want Pizza for breakfast!


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> Now I want Pizza for breakfast!


 





 Now I want Pizza anytime this weekend!


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Now I want Pizza for breakfast!
> ...


 
 Now you are just building your post count.....


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> I need to get some Kachina...
> 
> ok ok, I'm coming... need to stop at SF for at least few days on lay over...


 
 Kachina stopped making sparkling and it's all gone.
 We had lunch up there for my birthday in May and couldn't get even a bottle.
 Greg claims Nancy drank it all! 
 We have 1/2 case or so left in the garage so we'll open some when you show up...
  
 Going to Anderson Valley next week - picnic at Roederer on Tuesday - that's always a nice spot.


----------



## parbaked

parbaked said:


>


 
  


clayton sf said:


> You went! Did she miss me? Okay. Well, maybe not.


 
  
 We couldn't go without you and Rachel only wears her party dress when Clayton's coming!!
 That pics from just before Amsterdam.
 In fact that's your glass on the left - with salt....we go again next Thursday when I'm back.


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> Now you are just building your post count.....


 
 Post counts are overrated, as are most Pizzas.


----------



## Clayton SF

I just ate 1/4 of a 12-inch pizza for breakfast. Yummy! It was last night's dinner. Yummyx2.


----------



## Silent One

I'm going to lie down for a bit. And there's a strong chance I'll fall asleep dreaming about being in Brooklyn with a plain slice.


----------



## jc9394

I can call asleep standing up now.


----------



## GrindingThud

Just finished a 12" from Nikos.....mmmmm.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Nikos-Pizza/110882392267437?sk=info&ref=page_internal



clayton sf said:


> I just ate 1/4 of a 12-inch pizza for breakfast. Yummy! It was last night's dinner. Yummyx2.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Now you are just building your post count.....
> ...


 
 My last Pizza location on Wednesday night....
  

  
 Definitely not over rated!


----------



## daigo

longbowbbs said:


> My last Pizza location on Wednesday night....
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely not over rated!


 
 I thought it was a little overrated when I visited Chicago last year...  Way too much cheese for my liking.


----------



## longbowbbs

daigo said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > My last Pizza location on Wednesday night....
> ...


 
 I am from Wisconsin...There can NEVER be too much cheese.....


----------



## wotts

longbowbbs said:


> My last Pizza location on Wednesday night....
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely not over rated!


 
  
  
 I ate at the location next to the hotel at AXPONA. That was a great meal! Jose and I ran into Dan "Mr. Speakers" and Jack Wu and his team while we were there.


----------



## jc9394

longbowbbs said:


> My last Pizza location on Wednesday night....
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely not over rated!


 
  
  
 I ate at the Buffalo Grove location in late July, will definitely visit again...


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *longbowbbs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My last Pizza location on Wednesday night....
> 
> ...


 
 Ate there a few summers back in Chi-town. Wait time was 3.5 hours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Was it worth it? Most definitely! And likely remains a strong #2 in my book. Still...for me, a New York thin-crust cheese pizza remains in the #1 drive slot.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> > Originally Posted by *longbowbbs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> > My last Pizza location on Wednesday night....
> >
> ...


 
 Very tough choice there....Both are classics!


----------



## parbaked

We have so much good pizza now in San Francisco but my favorite remains John's on Bleeker in the West Village in NY...."No Slices"


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


>


 
 I can almost smell da joint!


----------



## Clayton SF

I like thin crust pizza. Chicago pizza is more like a huge casserole than a pizza to me. I like the pizza at _*Pizza Hacker*_. Go ask parbaked. We go there sometimes once a week. Lately not so often because of my vacation expenses and the fact that I am saving up to visit Ultra in Belgium next year


----------



## Silent One

Vote: Thin crust 





 
  
 I'll delight in deep-dish gooey-ness now and again. Certainly has a place in the rotation. But when satisfaction is on the line...!


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> Vote: Thin crust
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  

  
 I'd like to know the history of deep-dish gooey-ness pizza pizzazz!
  
 By the way, this is what I had for lunch in Amsterdam. These are Dutch pancakes. They do savory pancakes as well.


----------



## Silent One

It's a crying shame, I tell ya! May have to wait till Sunday night/Monday night for sum Pizza. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I can tell you were in Europe based on the fork's downward position.


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> It's a crying shame, I tell ya! May have to wait till Sunday night/Monday night for sum Pizza.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 OMG, Sherlock! (He's from Europe, too.) I never even noticed that and wasn't conscious of ever doing it. However my lunch mate obviously did the same thing with his fork and he's American. I wonder what happened. Magnetic field change?


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> *OMG, Sherlock! *(He's from Europe, too.) I never even noticed that and wasn't conscious of ever doing it. However my lunch mate obviously did the same thing with his fork and he's American. I wonder what happened. Magnetic field change?


 





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 On that note, I still practice the old time French custom of placing tins down on the fork when setting the table. Old habits, they die hard.


----------



## Clayton SF

Some of the best Chinese food I had was at _*Nam Kee*_, Chinatown, Amsterdam.


----------



## Neogeo333

Hmmm, roast duck and eggplant spicy pot?  Its almost 1am here and im hungry.


----------



## kvtaco17

So much food in this thread... I need to learn to avoid this place early in the morning...


----------



## whirlwind

kvtaco17 said:


> So much food in this thread... I need to learn to avoid this place early in the morning...


 
 Yea....I come here just to browse and the pics of the food are just mouth watering


----------



## kvtaco17

whirlwind said:


> Yea....I come here just to browse and the pics of the food are just mouth watering


 

 At least my wife will be up soon and we'll go get an epic breakfast!


----------



## longbowbbs

kvtaco17 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Yea....I come here just to browse and the pics of the food are just mouth watering
> ...


 
 Just go grab some Scotch Eggs from the Festival.....


----------



## kvtaco17

longbowbbs said:


> Just go grab some Scotch Eggs from the Festival.....


 
 If you mean ren fair then I may... I live 10 minutes away from that thing lol


----------



## longbowbbs

kvtaco17 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Just go grab some Scotch Eggs from the Festival.....
> ...


 
 That is exactly what I meant! Nothing like Scotch Eggs and mustard.....


----------



## kvtaco17

longbowbbs said:


> That is exactly what I meant! Nothing like Scotch Eggs and mustard.....


 
 We were planning on going today, although I was thinking dim sum for breakfast then lunch at the fair.


----------



## longbowbbs

kvtaco17 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > That is exactly what I meant! Nothing like Scotch Eggs and mustard.....
> ...


 
 I worked there for several years a long time ago....Fun times. I have many friends that are still performing there.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Some of the best Chinese food I had was at _*Nam Kee*_, Chinatown, Amsterdam.


 
  
  
 Chinese food in Amsterdam definitely much better than US offer.  I'm really impress when I was there last time, they are as good as HK.


----------



## kvtaco17

jc9394 said:


> Chinese food in Amsterdam definitely much better than US offer.  I'm really impress when I was there last time, they are as good as HK.


 

 It really depends... 95% of Chinese food in America is complete garbage... Though Chicago and San Fran have some gems...
  

  
 And FYI my breakfast Scotch Egg... pre-mustard...


----------



## longbowbbs

kvtaco17 said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > Chinese food in Amsterdam definitely much better than US offer.  I'm really impress when I was there last time, they are as good as HK.
> ...


 
 That's what I am talking about!


----------



## kvtaco17

longbowbbs said:


> That's what I am talking about!


 

 Really it was a great suggestion! I haven't had one in about a year, so I was due!


----------



## longbowbbs

kvtaco17 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > That's what I am talking about!
> ...


 
 Glad I could help. Breakfast is important!


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn OTL amp: what's old is new again!
  
 Moved to another residence yesterday, one that is undergoing (or will be shortly) renovations inside. With free space being temporarily nonexistent, I'm looking to press the OTL/HD650 space saving combo into service in a couple of weeks...who knew?!


----------



## alota

went from greece i eated like tree pigs.
 wonderful food, wonderful country, wonderful people but most important: wonderful rosgr63 that is a really special person and friend.
 and now one picture for the voyeurs


----------



## alota

i forgot: the glenn amplifiers are a piece of art!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Great to see you had a nice time. I love how people in this thread are meeting eacher cross border in real life. Such nice people.


----------



## Silent One

alota said:


> went from greece i eated like tree pigs.
> wonderful food, wonderful country, wonderful people but most important: wonderful rosgr63 that is a really special person and friend.
> and now one picture for the voyeurs


 
 Whatever found its way into you & rosgr63's drinking glasses...




 @ Ultrainferno
 +1


----------



## gibosi

Glenn,
  
 Have you tried the 6E5P beam tetrode? From what I have read, it is quite good strapped as a triode, and some report good results driving 300B's with this tube.


----------



## alota

silent one said:


> Whatever found its way into you & rosgr63's drinking glasses...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 of course!


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Glenn,
> 
> Have you tried the 6E5P beam tetrode? From what I have read, it is quite good strapped as a triode, and some report good results driving 300B's with this tube.


 

 No I have never tried this tube it looks worth a try though.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> No I have never tried this tube it looks worth a try though.


 
 Hi Glenn just wondering how many amps have you made with 45's or 2a3?


----------



## Neogeo333

magiccabbage said:


> Hi Glenn just wondering how many amps have you made with 45's or 2a3?


 
 I hope he can make one for me with this opt for a SE 45 amp.  So many 45's and no amp to put it to use.


----------



## magiccabbage

neogeo333 said:


> I hope he can make one for me with this opt for a SE 45 amp.  So many 45's and no amp to put it to use.


 
 hopefully it will go ahead. I would love to see how it turns out.


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > No I have never tried this tube it looks worth a try though.
> ...


 

 I made one 45 amp with a C3g driver.
 My headphone amp is a 2A3 OTL that I use with HD800s & HD650s
 It has four 2A3s two per channel If I were to do it again I would use 6A3s
 easier filament DC power supplys on the 6 volt tubes less current draw.


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Glenn just wondering how many amps have you made with 45's or 2a3?
> ...


 

 George
  
 Let me finish your 300B amp with silver transformers.   Do you have the C3g and PY500 tubes?
 You have these Tango transformers??  The 32 ohm tap is perfect for 40 ohm phones & 32 ohm Grados.
 I would say C3g driving the 45 unless you would prefer some other driver.


----------



## Neogeo333

I was day dreaming.   
 I have the c3g and py500, plenty of them.  
 Got those Tangos a while ago.  Couldn't past on them since they were dirt ship.  I was thinking maybe a 26 driving a 45.  Making it a all dht amp.  Well its no harm to dream right?


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> I was day dreaming.
> I have the c3g and py500, plenty of them.
> Got those Tangos a while ago.  Couldn't past on them since they were dirt ship.  I was thinking maybe a 26 driving a 45.  Making it a all dht amp.  Well its no harm to dream right?


 

 That is hard to get 26s quiet enough.
 My preamp uses 26s the filament power supply was crazy I use filament bias on the 26s.
 I have to think about this.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> I made one 45 amp with a C3g driver.
> My headphone amp is a 2A3 OTL that I use with HD800s & HD650s
> It has four 2A3s two per channel If I were to do it again I would use 6A3s
> easier filament DC power supplys on the 6 volt tubes less current draw.


 
 Can you post a picture of the 2a3 amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I made one 45 amp with a C3g driver.
> ...


----------



## Neogeo333

Glenn is the iron cast skillet part of the amp?  Lovely amp though.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


>


 
 nice


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > 2359glenn said:
> ...


 
 Wow!   Very nice


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Glenn is the iron cast skillet part of the amp?  Lovely amp though.


 

 No it is just over by the fireplace were I took the picture one of the GFs nick nacks


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> No it is just over by the fireplace were I took the picture one of the GFs nick nacks


 
 I thought you were making popcorn on the output tubes!
 That is one good looking amp Glenn!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

I make the popcorn in the fireplace I might have to try on the tubes.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


>


 
  
  
 Looks great Glenn, I may have to trade up my OTL for this.  Anyone looking for an OTL in New England area?


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 

 It is really for high impedance headphones only.  But sounds fantastic with HD800s & HD650s.
 It has that direct heated magic.
 No driver the DAC drives a 2A3 directly so it has no coloring from other tubes.  And uses the monster Russian 5U8C rectifier.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 Yeah, I'm in that boat and may have to trade up my OTL for that to pair with my HD650.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Yeah, I'm in that boat and may have to trade up my OTL for that to pair with my HD650.


 
  
 Yeah, if I don't sell one and get another amp I will be living in the shed over the winter.


----------



## xaval

looks... huge! and I'm sure it sounds quite good. The DAC into the 2a3 should really give a great "taste".


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> Yeah, if I don't sell one and get another amp I will be living in the shed over the winter.


 
 With two amps cranking, at least you will stay warm!!
 That 2a3 looks worth it....


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I'm in that boat and may have to trade up my OTL for that to pair with my HD650.
> ...


 
 If you have a spare $2500 lying around this is the best sounding Amp I make!
 There is no amp that can beet the sound of this 300B driven by C3g amp with all Lundahl transformers.


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> With two amps cranking, at least you will stay warm!!
> That 2a3 looks worth it....


 
  
  
 But but I do not have power in the shed...


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> If you have a spare $2500 lying around this is the best sounding Amp I make!
> There is no amp that can beet the sound of this 300B driven by C3g amp with all Lundahl transformers.


 
  
 Just realized I did not use multi quote, I guess I'm working on my post counts.
  
 Actually Glenn, this is the amp I'm still targeting.  I do have the cash but need to sell one before buying another one or the mrs will not be a happy camper.  I do have 5 pairs of C3g already and planning to get Tak 300B next time I head to Japan.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > If you have a spare $2500 lying around this is the best sounding Amp I make!
> ...


 

 You will have to ask DMinches how it sounds with the Tak 300Bs


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> Just realized I did not use multi quote, I guess I'm working on my post counts.
> 
> Actually Glenn, this is the amp I'm still targeting.  I do have the cash but need to sell one before buying another one or the mrs will not be a happy camper.  I do have 5 pairs of C3g already and planning to get Tak 300B next time I head to Japan.


 
 I think that is the nicest tube amp that i have ever seen


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> You will have to ask DMinches how it sounds with the Tak 300Bs


 
  
  
 I will pm him next time I goes to NY/NJ area.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > You will have to ask DMinches how it sounds with the Tak 300Bs
> ...


 

 I am sure he will let you have a listen.
 Think he lives closer to Philly


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> I am sure he will let you have a listen.
> Think he lives closer to Philly


 
  
 He did offered before and I hope he will still honor it later... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Time for some philly cheese steak and NY pizza.
  
 With my driving, to Philly should not take long unless NJ turnpike have accidents.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > silent one said:
> ...


 
 That is a happy thing!


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> If you have a spare $2500 lying around this is the best sounding Amp I make!
> There is no amp that can beet the sound of this 300B driven by C3g amp with all Lundahl transformers.


 
 $2500 lying around? No problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 all I gotta do is pull up the ol' spreadsheet, click on the tab "Bill Payments" and then insert "2359glenn|studio" in place of a few creditors...that'll do it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got a few months to work it. My plan is to have you leash up a pair of reindeer for delivery. If all goes well, 'Selah' will have a sister coming to the West coast year-end. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jc9394 said:


> But but I do not have power in the shed...


 
 No sweat (pun intended) Boston Edison has a special needs programs for husbands during winter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jc9394 said:


> Just realized I did not use multi quote, I guess I'm working on my post counts.
> 
> Actually Glenn, this is the amp I'm still targeting.  I do have the cash but need to sell one before buying another one or the mrs will not be a happy camper.  I do have 5 pairs of C3g already and planning to get Tak 300B next time I head to Japan.


 
 Post counts (overrated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) remind me a lot of a car's ODO, more miles won't necessarily make one more experienced. But can be a great indicator of cruising too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 much during a given period. Can't wait for you to warm your hands on some fine Japanese glass! 
  
  


magiccabbage said:


> I think that is the nicest tube amp that i have ever seen


 
 2 things are immediately apparent:
  
 1. That amp (Selah) is drop-dead gorgeous!
 2. Deserves to be splashed ALL OVER head-fi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jc9394 said:


> He did offered before and I hope he will still honor it later...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Don't forget the dash mounted cam.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Don't forget the dash mounted cam.


 
  
  
 That will incriminate me...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> That will incriminate me...


 
 I've got some really great music for the vid, tho!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I've got some really great music for the vid, tho!


 
  
 I'm sure you do but NJ troopers are PIA...  don't want to deal with them, had one incident way way back.


----------



## magiccabbage

I would of bought the Glenn 300b but its not ideal for HD800 so decided on the DNA Stratus instead which will actually cost me a lot more in the end because of the tubes Im going for. 
  
 I will get a Glenn amp eventually I just don't know what to go for. I'll decide next year


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> I would of bought the Glenn 300b but its not ideal for HD800 so decided on the DNA Stratus instead which will actually cost me a lot more in the end because of the tubes Im going for.
> 
> I will get a Glenn amp eventually I just don't know what to go for. I'll decide next year


 
  
  
 Does Nikon or Canon take the best pictures?  It is all personal preference, I don't believe DNA Stratus is better until I have both of them in my house for extended audition.  YMMV...


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> Does Nikon or Canon take the best pictures?  It is all personal preference, I don't believe DNA Stratus is better until I have both of them in my house for extended audition.  YMMV...


 
 I didn't say it was better - i was only talking about driving HD800. Glenn himself said that he could not guarantee that I would like it with HD800 and advised on the OTL for that but i dont want another 6080 OTL so there ya go.


----------



## Neogeo333

The more I look at David's Selah amp the more I want Glenn to hurry up.  That's is so good looking and the sound must be second to none.


----------



## magiccabbage

neogeo333 said:


> The more I look at David's Selah amp the more I want Glenn to hurry up.  That's is so good looking and the sound must be second to none.


 
 haha I know the feeling


----------



## Silent One

neogeo333 said:


> The more I look at David's Selah amp the more I want Glenn to hurry up.  That's is so good looking and the sound must be second to none.


 






 Might need to send extra dough...elves cost money.


----------



## Neogeo333

I was thinking of sending him a pizza pie and some Heinekens.  That should get him going.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Heineken would slow him down. Send him some real Belgian beer


----------



## Silent One

neogeo333 said:


> I was thinking of sending him a pizza pie and some Heinekens.  That should get him going.


 
 Tequila...


----------



## Neogeo333

Right on SO


----------



## punit

So I've been listening to Glenn's OTL for about 15 days now (with primarily HD 800), just getting familiar with the sound & have done a little bit of rolling so far. Just wanted to list a tube combination that I found outstanding (so far), CBS 5AW4 + TS 5998 + Mullard CV 181. Very Holographic, 3D sound stage , good punchy bass & clear extended treble, very  dynamic.
 BTW my OTL has a 5998 / 6AS7 switch to set the optimum bias for each tube type.

  

  
 I have around 50 - 75 tube combinations to try out so will be spamming this thread whenever any combination stands out as special.


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> I would of bought the Glenn 300b but its not ideal for HD800 so decided on the DNA Stratus instead which will actually cost me a lot more in the end because of the tubes Im going for.
> 
> I will get a Glenn amp eventually I just don't know what to go for. I'll decide next year


 

 Do you think the transformers in the Stratus sound better then Lundahl transformers


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> The more I look at David's Selah amp the more I want Glenn to hurry up.  That's is so good looking and the sound must be second to none.


 

 Yours will look pretty much the same just the transformers will look a little different.
 And have a XLR jack


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> Do you think the transformers in the Stratus sound better then Lundahl transformers


 
 I don't have the stratus yet - there has been a few delays with the build. I haven't heard anything with Lundahl transformers yet so I have no idea. Have you heard the transformer that are in the Stratus?


----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn said:


> It is really for high impedance headphones only.  But sounds fantastic with HD800s & HD650s.
> It has that direct heated magic.
> No driver the DAC drives a 2A3 directly so it has no coloring from other tubes.  And uses the monster Russian 5U8C rectifier.


 
  
 Glenn, very nice...made me really curious about the topography (if you can spare any).
  
 Cathode follower?  Parallel (can't be push-pull)?  I can see two big old caps for possible output coupling.


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > It is really for high impedance headphones only.  But sounds fantastic with HD800s & HD650s.
> ...


 

 The big capacitors are for power supply filtering. The output coupling caps are 220uf  400 volt Solen caps. these are monsters
 The 4 chokes down the middle are for the four 2.5 volt DC supply's for the 2A3 filaments
 All signal wiring is DH labs pure silver.
  
 Here is a Pix


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Solid silver...so jelly.  I used silver-plated though, can't afford solid silver through out.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> You will have to ask DMinches how it sounds with the Tak 300Bs




Selah sounds great with all the 300Bs I have tried. This isn't the best sounding amp that Glenn makes, it is the best sounding amp, period!


----------



## magiccabbage

dminches said:


> Selah sounds great with all the 300Bs I have tried. This isn't the best sounding amp that Glenn makes, it is the best sounding amp, period!


 
 what is it like with T1 and HD800? I know I asked you when you got it but has anything changed?


----------



## dminches

I rarely listen to the T1s with Selah. It sounds nice, but I prefer the LCD-3s. I do not own HD800s.


----------



## punit

dminches said:


> I rarely listen to the T1s with Selah. It sounds nice, but I prefer the LCD-3s. I do not own HD800s.


 

 Does the T1 sound better with Selah or the OTL ?


----------



## snapple10

Old plan . new plan for the weekend
 unboxing and fist glance. 
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
 absolutely top notch packing
 I feel like a kid on xmas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 haven't been this excited about a gear in awhile, thanks Glenn
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
    toe- tapping and  finger popping with Beyerdynamic T1. Will have to get HD800 out for a test, later
  
 thanks for letting me share in my excitement. Happy Listening !!!!!


----------



## kvtaco17

snapple10 said:


> Old plan . new plan for the weekend
> unboxing and fist glance.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Bravo! If you need any help tube rolling I'm only 5 hrs away lol Also check out the meet thread... we're hanging out on the 20th... it'd be neat to have 2 Glenn amps their!


----------



## jc9394

Congrats, it still surprises me every time I turn it on.


----------



## snapple10

will do, thanks
 am off on the 20th, might have to make the drive to joint in the fun before it starts snowing


----------



## Ultrainferno

Great looking amp Glenn!


----------



## kvtaco17

snapple10 said:


> will do, thanks
> am off on the 20th, might have to make the drive to joint in the fun before it starts snowing


 
 You better! lol


----------



## punit

snapple10 said:


> toe- tapping and  finger popping with Beyerdynamic T1. Will have to get HD800 out for a test, later
> thanks for letting me share in my excitement. Happy Listening !!!!!


 
  
 I have not heard the T1 sound better than it does on Glenn's OTL , incredible synergy. In the past HD 800 + HE 6 used to hog most of the head time. With Glenn's OTL ,T1's are back.
  





 welcome to da club.


----------



## kvtaco17

too many posts without food... almost forgot where I was! #1stworldproblems


----------



## snapple10

punit said:


> I have not heard the T1 sound better than it does on Glenn's OTL , incredible synergy. In the past HD 800 + HE 6 used to hog most of the head time. With Glenn's OTL ,T1's are back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 thanks, this is something special. glad to be apart of the few
 so far, the combo has handled every genre , just got some icing, strawberry on my cake


----------



## whirlwind

snapple10 said:


> Old plan . new plan for the weekend
> unboxing and fist glance.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Very nice....is this Glenns OTL amp.....the one that I would want for the HD800 ?


----------



## magiccabbage

whirlwind said:


> Very nice....is this Glenns OTL amp.....the one that I would want for the HD800 ?


 
 yea


----------



## punit

snapple10 said:


>


 
 snapple what power tubes are those ?
  
 edit- never mind, got it. you are really slummin it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Just kiddin. Thats what I like most about this amp. Great sound with low cost tubes. If you think this is special, wait till you try some of the more exotic fare.


snapple10 said:


> thanks, this is something special. glad to be apart of the few
> so far, the combo has handled every genre , just got some icing, strawberry on my cake


----------



## snapple10

GE6AS7G


----------



## punit

snapple10 said:


> GE6AS7G


 
  
 Its actually a GE 6080


----------



## snapple10

Thanks for the education , so it's an equivalent of the 6AS7GA?


----------



## punit

Yes. This thread is a good source of info for 6AS7 / 6080 & equivalent tubes
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here


----------



## snapple10

Thanks , funny just subd to it few minutes ago. Never really been interested in tube rolling , per se til yesterday


----------



## punit

snapple10 said:


> Thanks , funny just subd to it few minutes ago. Never really been interested in tube rolling , per se til yesterday


 

 Well the WA 6SE does not have that many options for rolling , you can roll mainly rectifiers. But the G.Otl..thats another story. Lets see if the rolling bug bites you.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Will pm you some good tube info resources in case it does.


----------



## snapple10

We will see. Knowing myself , it could get out of hand if the bug bites so plan on keeping it in check  
Glenn was kind enough to get me started with current tubes and I had so much fun , yesterday , with it . not even curious about others, yet


----------



## 2359glenn

snapple10 said:


> We will see. Knowing myself , it could get out of hand if the bug bites so plan on keeping it in check
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Have you tried your HD800s on the OTL yet?


----------



## 2359glenn

I see your WA6-SE has a 596 rectifier. You can try it in the OTL.
 The plate leads won't be oriented to be on the right and left but this tube and adapter will work fine
 in the OTL. Cheep tube roll you already have it.


----------



## snapple10

Not yet, Glenn. T1 was it 
For the type of music ( pop, reggae, hip hop) I was listening to yesterday , I prefer T1 to HD800 .
 Plan on trying the HD800 today though with some blues/ jazz / acoustic stuff 

spent all day at my desk , past midnight just going thru a few albums I have enjoyed over the years
plan on doing a few hours of work , today, before getting back to amp and hd800


----------



## kvtaco17

Snapple I'll bring a bunch of tubes to the meet so you can get an idea of what to get for your rig. #moneysaved/walletsaysthankyou


----------



## snapple10

Great!! Will be looking forward to that
Thanks


----------



## kvtaco17

It's no problem.


----------



## Silent One

snapple10 said:


> Old plan . new plan for the weekend
> unboxing and fist glance.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for letting us share in your joy. Very excited about Autumn 2014 for you!




  


kvtaco17 said:


> Bravo! If you need any help tube rolling I'm only 5 hrs away lol *Also check out the meet thread... we're hanging out on the 20th... it'd be neat to have 2 Glenn amps their!*


 
 Great to hear!
  
  


snapple10 said:


> will do, thanks
> am off on the 20th, *might have to make the drive to joint in the fun before it starts snowing*


 




  


jc9394 said:


> Congrats,* it still surprises me every time I turn it on.*


 





 This is normal for frequent fliers...welcome home!


----------



## snapple10

finally getting around to using the HD800 > Glennamp, still early but might still prefer T1 a little, then again I use T1 more so am more familiar with it and I prefer the "warmer " sound 
  
 Jazz at the Pawnshop might be few moments I get  HD800 
  
 Thanks again Glenn


----------



## 2359glenn

I like the amp with HD800s but never herd the T1 so I can't compare. Also use it with the HD650s


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> I like the amp with HD800s but never herd the T1 so I can't compare. Also use it with the HD650s


 
 How many watts does the 300b mono block you made for Clayton output? i love Clayton's set up. I wonder could you use Lundahls and still have it look like Clayton's amp?


----------



## Neogeo333

Mooncake festival today, no mooncake for me but two bowls of this will satisfy.


----------



## Ultrainferno

magiccabbage said:


> How many watts does the 300b mono block you made for Clayton output? i love Clayton's set up. I wonder could you use Lundahls and still have it look like Clayton's amp?


 
  
 2 x 15W I think. Well thats what mine puts out


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> 2 x 15W I think. Well thats what mine puts out


 
 thanks - What speakers do you run with them or do you only use it as a headphone amp?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I only use it as a headphone amp but my desktop systems haven't gotten much airtime lately. clayton uses it with his Zu Omen speakers


----------



## parbaked

magiccabbage said:


> How many watts does the 300b mono block you made for Clayton output? i love Clayton's set up. I wonder could you use Lundahls and still have it look like Clayton's amp?


 
 This is my understanding:
 1. Clayton's are mono blocks so not designed for headphones unless you use the speaker taps.
 2. David's 300B (Lundahls) is headphone only. No speaker taps with this amp.
 3. Ultra has the 300B that works best with speakers and cans! The speakers cut out when you plug your cans in....
  
 As such, if I wanted speakers only, I get monoblocks.
 If I wanted an amp for planars, I'd spring for the Lundahls.
 If I wanted the most versatile, I'd get Ultra's....


----------



## Neogeo333

Or you can get a custom transformer with multiple secondary like 8-16-32ohms or something similar.  Use 8ohms for speakers and 32 or whatever you decide for planar cans.


----------



## magiccabbage

parbaked said:


> This is my understanding:
> 1. Clayton's are mono blocks so not designed for headphones unless you use the speaker taps.
> 2. David's 300B (Lundahls) is headphone only. No speaker taps with this amp.
> 3. Ultra has the 300B that works best with speakers and cans! The speakers cut out when you plug your cans in....
> ...


 
 I was thinking for speakers only


----------



## magiccabbage

Imagine a glenn tube DAC!


----------



## snapple10

2359glenn said:


> I like the amp with HD800s but never herd the T1 so I can't compare. Also use it with the HD650s


 
 yes, I have tried it with HD650 and enjoying  it now,as well 
  
   A friend of mine will say Jay-Z is not music but I happen to enjoy hip-hop. Try listening to classical ( notting again it , I just can not) on a 16-hour road trip. Anybody use HD 800 for Jay-Z or the likes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ?
  
 Glenn your timing on the amp could not have been better, no work for a week here. 
 okay, going back to Glennamp and HD650


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > How many watts does the 300b mono block you made for Clayton output? i love Clayton's set up. I wonder could you use Lundahls and still have it look like Clayton's amp?
> ...


 

 Really Clayton's , Ultra's , and David's amps are the same circuit.
 It will sound best with Lundahl transformers.
 And if using Lundahl transformers it would look like davids. I suppose I can make mono blockes with Lundahl transformers.
 The amp with Lundahl transformers can be made with 40 or 80 ohm headphone output + have speaker outputs.
 The low cost transformers I used in Clayton's and Ultra's amps sound darn good. Hell that is the transformer in my mono block amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> Imagine a glenn tube DAC!


 

 I have thought about it but I have enough amps to build and I have health issues.
 I also have made a darn good moving coil phono preamp but no time to be making them to sell.


----------



## kvtaco17

2359glenn said:


> I have thought about it but I have enough amps to build and I have health issues.
> I also have made a darn good moving coil phono preamp but no time to be making them to sell.


 

 You need someone with small hands and some electrical savvy to help you out! For free... in their spare time... just because of the awesome stuff you give to us!


----------



## kazsud

snapple10 said:


> yes, I have tried it with HD650 and enjoying  it now,as well
> 
> A friend of mine will say Jay-Z is not music but I happen to enjoy hip-hop. Try listening to classical ( notting again it , I just can not) on a 16-hour road trip. Anybody use HD 800 for Jay-Z or the likes   ?
> 
> ...




Jay-Z's latest sounds quite nice on the hd800s


----------



## 2359glenn

snapple10 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I like the amp with HD800s but never herd the T1 so I can't compare. Also use it with the HD650s
> ...


 

 I also have the HD650s and think they sound great for what they cost.  1/3 of what the 800s cost.
   I listen mostly to rock and jazz some oldies.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            .


----------



## kvtaco17

Oh, and more food!
  

  

  Yesterday's breakfast.... delicious of course!


----------



## snapple10

kazsud said:


> Jay-Z's latest sounds quite nice on the hd800s


 
 Okay, not that it is bad  but compare to Denon, T1 not as fun for me
  
  


2359glenn said:


> I also have the HD650s and think they sound great for what they cost.  1/3 of what the 800s cost.
> I listen mostly to rock and jazz some oldies.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            .


 
 HD800 I do like with jazz too but prefer HD650 or PS 500 for rock


----------



## snapple10

kvtaco17 said:


> Oh, and more food!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was just thinking, surprise nobody is talking about food here


----------



## kvtaco17

snapple10 said:


> I was just thinking, surprise nobody is talking about food here


 
 I like to think we need occasional breaks lol
  
 So on topic, I'm currently rocking my Glenn OTL, HD800's being fed from my Audio-GD NFB29 and I'm in heaven!
  

  
 Obviously a pic of my rack was needed to convey my joy lol


----------



## snapple10

I like the food talk.
 speaking of eating, what is for dinner? 
  
 Hard to describe the sound from this amp, just gottta get one to experience the goodness


----------



## Neogeo333

Looking at those steam shrimp rolls its so delicious.


----------



## kvtaco17

neogeo333 said:


> Looking at those steam shrimp rolls its so delicious.


 

 Oh it all was!


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> This is my understanding:
> 1. Clayton's are mono blocks so not designed for headphones unless you use the speaker taps.
> 2. David's 300B (Lundahls) is headphone only. No speaker taps with this amp.
> 3. Ultra has the 300B that works best with speakers and cans! The speakers cut out when you plug your cans in....
> ...


 
 Mono blocks? Planars?? Lundahl trannies??? Check! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With the Lundahls sitting beneath Shindo Lab skin, and the modded HE-6 leashed up to the blocks via taps, that's some good living right there. Except for one tiny little thing...haven't been able to setup the listening room yet (temporary space constraint). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


magiccabbage said:


> Imagine a glenn tube DAC!


 
 I'd strive to have it in-home 1st! But in light of him:
  
 - Successfully managing his health
 - Having a wonderful full-time partner
 - Working full-time (Job)
 - Working inside the studio (Pleasure)
 - Caring for a horse I plan to sneak onto the Race Track 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 That tube DAC may have to remain a concept for now. 
  


snapple10 said:


> yes, I have tried it with HD650 and enjoying  it now,as well
> 
> A friend of mine will say Jay-Z is not music but I happen to enjoy hip-hop. Try listening to classical ( notting again it , I just can not) on a 16-hour road trip. Anybody use HD 800 for Jay-Z or the likes
> 
> ...


 
 Way Out West in SoCal your friend says Jaz-Z is music! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


2359glenn said:


> I also have the HD650s and think they sound great for what they cost.  1/3 of what the 800s cost.
> I listen mostly to rock and jazz some oldies.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            .


 
 Agreed.


----------



## jc9394

My lunch today...


----------



## Silent One

snapple10 said:


> I like the food talk.
> speaking of eating, what is for dinner?
> 
> Hard to describe the sound from this amp, just gottta get one to experience the goodness


 
 Won't be home this evening but if I were and in the kitchen, I'd make Spaghetti & Pasta sauce. And would then bake Creole Shrimp and add to the sauce a moment later and voila! Talk about yum-o!!! If you can get some consistent head-time in the next 3-4 weeks, descriptions may emerge without thought. Or keep you up at night. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Perhaps, you could sneak in some Bushi Mhlongo and/or Amadou & Mariam in the rotation for me. My system is down for the time being...
  
  
 @ jc9394
 WOWZA!


----------



## kvtaco17

snapple10 said:


> I like the food talk.
> speaking of eating, what is for dinner?
> 
> Hard to describe the sound from this amp, just gottta get one to experience the goodness


 
  
 I'm waiting for the wife... I dunno what we are gonna eat... though I am starving!!!
  
 So I have to ask... when was the last time you used the GS-X?


----------



## 2359glenn

Just finished eating chicken and rice should have taken a pix.
 Now to go in the hole and build amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> My lunch today...


 

 That is a tasty looking lunch I had a hotdog


----------



## jc9394

I have had salad for lunch since I came back from Asia (need to detox those Kobe beef), finally a nice lunch.


----------



## snapple10

@ Silent one- Reasonable Doubt is still my fav Jay-Z's Album
  
@kvtaco17
 last used the Gsx Friday night with  LA7k> Oppo 105D
  
@jc9394those are too pretty to eat
  
 @ Glenn - hole? hope you got the AC going. a little hot here today, 70's. I think I spotted a sweat
  
 for dinner here-Salmon in tomato sauce
 just  made my chicken-noodle soup for a friend from work who is sick. Hubby taking the rest for lunch, really like when my food disappear  
  
  
 like the food talk


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


> My lunch today...


 
 Much more colorful than my Taco Bell.....


----------



## jc9394

longbowbbs said:


> Much more colorful than my Taco Bell.....




Have not have Taco Bell for few years, about time to revisit. 

Finally have time to power on Glenn's OTL tonight for the last few months, it is far better than I remembered. Lossless>PWD>OTL>HD800, gonna going to be a long night. I guess I will deal the early mornings with triple espresso tomorrow.


----------



## snapple10

My TACO bell recommendation- CANTINA POWER BURRITO - STEAK- with some of their hot sauce


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> My lunch today...


 

 OMG. It's like the last time we had dinner together! 3 bottles of sake. Or was it 4?


----------



## punit

jc9394 said:


> Finally have time to power on Glenn's OTL tonight for the last few months, it is far better than I remembered. Lossless>PWD>OTL>HD800, gonna going to be a long night.


 
 jc do you tube roll much anymore or has the urge settled down ? I have to keep trying new combinations every day, so was just wondering when the sickness will go away ?
  
 Just for information of others I have bought  a few tubes from jc, so he is partly responsible for passing on this sickness to me.


----------



## punit

snapple10 said:


> Okay, not that it is bad  but compare to Denon, T1 not as fun for me


 
 So you prefer Denon to Fostex. Interesting, for me its the other way round. TH 900 is my Fun King. I feel it has a bit more "finesse"  than my modified / upgraded D5000. Haven't heard D7000.


----------



## Silent One

Oh, how I loved my re-cabled D7000.


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> jc do you tube roll much anymore or has the urge settled down ? I have to keep trying new combinations every day, so was just wondering when the sickness will go away ?
> 
> Just for information of others I have bought  a few tubes from jc, so he is partly responsible for passing on this sickness to me.


 
  
  
 Not much anymore, I don't have as much time to take notes during session.  In the past, I usually roll everyday.  To me, time is preventing to me roll, tube rolling is definitely a sickness and it will never goes away.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> OMG. It's like the last time we had dinner together! 3 bottles of sake. Or was it 4?


 
  
  
 I lost count myself, all I remember I stumble back to hotel and woke up when the front desk's wake up call and barely made it on time for my flight back.  It is definitely a great night....we will do it again next time I set foot on SF and drag parbaked out too.


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> ....we will do it again next time I set foot on SF and drag parbaked out too.


 
 We're ready and waiting JC...the sooner you come the better chance there will be some Kachina bubbly left!!
  
 Tonight I made lamb loin chops with basil/spinach pesto, ratatouille and broccolini with a nice Amphora zinfandel.

  
 Sunday Clayton brought a very pretty Dutch apple pie ( that he baked in a spring form pan = fancy) to a dinner party.
 We ate it before we took any pics...whoops!


----------



## No_One411

Hey guys. I've been doing some "light reading" in this thread, and will hopefully join in as an Glenn custom OTL owner at some point. 
  
 I recently picked up a pair of HD-800 and am looking to upgrade my current amplifier, a Schiit Vali. The OTL seems to be really amazing with the HD-800. 
  
 Can anybody with this particular pairing comment on their OTL setup? Can't wait to hear this pairing!


----------



## punit

no_one411 said:


> Can anybody with this particular pairing comment on their OTL setup?


 
 Hi,
  
 HD 800's sound great to amazing , depending on the tube combination used . Can you elaborate if you are looking for some specific feed back ?


----------



## No_One411

punit said:


> Hi,
> 
> HD 800's sound great to amazing , depending on the tube combination used . Can you elaborate if you are looking for some specific feed back ?


 
 Hmm, I guess I'm just curious as to the tube setups that people are using to get the HD-800s to sound amazing. I was also curious as to the customized upgrades that people have experience with. Glenn did mention a few upgrades, like the Gold Point attenuator, or the switch to use different driver tubes. 
  
 I'm not terribly familiar with tube-rolling. It seems that the 6AS7s work great with the HD-800s, but I should probably add the 5998-6336 bias switch for planar magnetics.


----------



## punit

Mine has the following mods :
  
 a gold point stepped attenuator
  
 a 5998 mod , this is a switch that puts the optimum bias for a 5998 output (even though a 5998 will work in a 6AS7 amp it is not optimized as it has different bias points)
      
 There is an extra mod available but I didn't go for that . Its a driver mod that would allow a 6SN7 , 12SN7 or 25SN7/1633/13D1 for the driver.
  
 Oh & mine has full black chassis, which is also extra. The full black gives a darker background.
  
 I am still in the very initial stages of tube rolling with this amp, so my comments below are based on my experience with Glenn OTL so far + other tube amps. The following are the best tubes that I have come across in each of the categories (listed in no particular order), you will prefer one or more depending on your taste in sound. :
  
 Power : GEC 6AS7G, GEC 6080, TS 5998 / 7236 , WE421A, Bendix 6080 Graphite Plates
  
 Driver's :  TS BGRP 6SNTGT, TS BP 6F8G, National Union 6F8G, Sylvania 6F8G ,Mullard CV 181, Brimar CV1988, RCA Red Base 5692
  
 For rectifiers :  CBS 5AW4, 3DG4, Western Electric 422A, Brimar (GEC) U52, Mullard 5V4G (GZ32), Philips (Mullard) GZ34 (metal base),USAF 596, Cossor GZ37
  
 What is interesting is finding the right combination which has synergy & the sound that you are looking for. You cannot just pick one option from each of the 3 categories above & expect that it will sound great. Therein lies the charm or curse of tube rolling (depending on which way you look at it). If you are curious about how any particular combination sounds, PM me & I will let you know.
  
 Edit : USAF 596 & 6F8G's need adapters which Glenn can provide you. Also you mentioned about using Planar HP's. I have XC's & it does not have very good synergy with the OTL. The TH 900's sound nice with the 6336 tubes though (with the 5998 switch). Which is really a bonus as OTL's are generally not great with low impd HP's.


----------



## No_One411

punit said:


> Mine has the following mods :
> 
> a gold point stepped attenuator
> 
> ...


 
 Wow, thanks for the great response. That's definitely really helpful. 
  
 The chassis color affecting sound surprises me. I would have thought that it was an aesthetic preference, albeit a very nice aesthetic change. 
  
 This will actually be my first time with tube rolling. Seems like you guys have got it down to an art. 
  
 I will most likely be using the OTL with the HD-800, so that will be my baseline for tube-rolling.


----------



## punit

Hahaha....Just kidding about the colour part. That was me trying to inject a little humour into a passion that some people take too seriously sometimes


----------



## No_One411

punit said:


> Hahaha....Just kidding about the colour part. That was me trying to inject a little humour into a passion that some people take too seriously sometimes


 






 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Fair enough. Definitely looking forward to joining the Glenn OTL club.


----------



## punit

Let me know when you get the OTL, I should have rolled through most of my collection & made a list of all the tube combinations that work well with HD 800 (IMO) by that time.


----------



## No_One411

punit said:


> Let me know when you get the OTL, I should have rolled through most of my collection & made a list of all the tube combinations that work well with HD 800 (IMO) by that time.


 
 I'll definitely check back in when the amp is finished. It seems that Glenn has his work cut out for him, since it'll probably be after Christmas before he can get started with mine. 
  
 The wait will be worth it though, I think.


----------



## rosgr63

punit, are you going to try any Italian & DDR tubes?


----------



## punit

Don't have any in my collection. Do you have any recommendations amongst the ones that you have tried ?


----------



## preproman

Hey guys.  
  
 Reading the thread and came across some talk about mono blocks.  Didn't see any pictures but it does sound interesting non the less.  
  
 Are these mono blocks part of Glenns' product line?  Can they drive the HE-6?  If so I would like to look into it more.  
  
 Can someone point me to where the pictures are?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Here's a pic
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/9690#post_10555691


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> Reading the thread and came across some talk about mono blocks.  Didn't see any pictures but it does sound interesting non the less.
> 
> ...


 
 I think the mono's are for speakers only. It's Clayton's rig. Maybe even the 300b has enough to drive the HE6 - Dminches 300b. 
 I don't think there would be a problem designing one to power the HE6.


----------



## preproman

WOW - Now that's what I'm talking about.  Glenn, are you still offereing those?  
  
 Thanks Ultra..


----------



## Ultrainferno

preproman said:


> WOW - Now that's what I'm talking about.  Glenn, are you still offereing those?
> 
> Thanks Ultra..


 
  
 No problem
  
 My 300b from speaker taps delivers 2 x 15W, that's more than enough for the HE-6 I think


----------



## preproman

magiccabbage said:


> I think the mono's are for speakers only. It's Clayton's rig. Maybe even the 300b has enough to drive the HE6 - Dminches 300b.
> I don't think there would be a problem designing one to power the HE6.


 
 Paddy..  The HE-6 are speakers


----------



## 2359glenn

preproman said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> Reading the thread and came across some talk about mono blocks.  Didn't see any pictures but it does sound interesting non the less.
> 
> ...


 

 If you want a amp that can drive a HE-6 this is the one 40 0hm output impedance will drive those 50 ohm headphones perfectly.


----------



## preproman

2359glenn said:


> If you want a amp that can drive a HE-6 this is the one 40 0hm output impedance will drive those 50 ohm headphones perfectly.


 
  
  
 That looks good to.  So I'm good with that.  Just to be clear.  That's not a speaker amp, nor mono blocks - correct?  Are those 300Bs or 2A3s?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Those are 300b tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

preproman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > If you want a amp that can drive a HE-6 this is the one 40 0hm output impedance will drive those 50 ohm headphones perfectly.
> ...


 

 Those are KR300Bs but it can use any 300B will be fine the driver is a C3g and rectifiers are PY500/42EC4


----------



## dminches

magiccabbage said:


> I think the mono's are for speakers only. It's Clayton's rig. Maybe even the 300b has enough to drive the HE6 - Dminches 300b.
> I don't think there would be a problem designing one to power the HE6.


 
  
 Selah (300B) drives the HE-6s very nicely.


----------



## Silent One

preproman said:


> Paddy..  The HE-6 are speakers


----------



## 2359glenn

Really all the 300B amps are the same circuit just different transformers.
 Selah being the best with lundahl transformers. This is also a perfect 40 ohms for planer phones.


----------



## preproman

OK so can you make any amp into monos?  I like the idea of having mono blocks driving the HE-6 like S.O.  What's Selah?


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> OK so can you make any amp into monos?  I like the idea of having mono blocks driving the HE-6 like S.O.  What's Selah?


 
 Selah is Dminches amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Selah is the amp shown in the picture above.
  
 And yes I can make any amp into mono blocks but more money two chassis two power transformers
 two volume controls.


----------



## preproman

2359glenn said:


> Selah is the amp shown in the picture above.
> 
> And yes I can make any amp into mono blocks but more money two chassis two power transformers
> two volume controls.


 
 How about "NO volume controls"  Make it so that you have to use a pre amp.  That's how I would do mine.  Is that possible?


----------



## jc9394

preproman said:


> How about "NO volume controls"  Make it so that you have to use a pre amp.  That's how I would do mine.  Is that possible?


 
  
  
 I like how you think... my dac can use as preamp, i may go that route too...


----------



## magiccabbage

Clever boys


----------



## Silent One

I have individual gain controls on the monos and enjoy using a preamp.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Clayton uses his like that, Pre amp as volume control


----------



## 2359glenn

I can make them with no volume controls and you use your preamp volume control.
 My 300B mono blocks have no volume controls I use my #26 tube  preamp volume control.
 Drool George.   Plan on working on your 300B amp this weekend.


----------



## Neogeo333

Can't wait.  Decided to have it ship to PR.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> I can make them with no volume controls and you use your preamp volume control.
> My 300B mono blocks have no volume controls I use my #26 tube  preamp volume control.
> Drool George.   Plan on working on your 300B amp this weekend.


 
 How many hours does it take you to put together the 300b compared to the OTL, Just out of interest?


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Can't wait.  Decided to have it ship to PR.


 

 I just ordered the heat sinks for the back of the amp they are fore the SS voltage regulators for
 the filaments of the 300Bs. I am going to mount the Lundahl power transformer in the case that
 matches your output transformers. Saturday morning project.


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I can make them with no volume controls and you use your preamp volume control.
> ...


 

 It can take weeks I do have a day job + have to do huney do things and I have health issues too.


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn, I am wanting one of your OTL amps for my HD800.....what is the wait time ?
  
 I sent pm.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> It can take weeks I do have a day job + have to do huney do things and I have health issues too.


 
 I hope your health improves. I had high blood pressure a few months ago. I gave up bread and pastries and started running a lot more. Now my blood pressure is fine. It took about 5 months. I lost 16 Kilo's but giving up bread was really hard.


----------



## 2359glenn

Snapple10 have you tried the 5AW4 vrs the 3DG4 ?


----------



## snapple10

Not yet. Still using 3DG4 
I tend to do little tube rolling , hoping that will change though
I will switch out and report back , let 's see if I can tell the difference


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked has returned my GlennAmp OTL. I hope you enjoyed the time spent with it. Did you try any of the other rectifiers I sent along with the amp?


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> parbaked has returned my GlennAmp OTL. Did you try any of the other rectifiers I sent along with the amp?


 
 I really enjoyed the OTL, especially with my HD600.
 I didn't try the rectifiers as I am still hoping Glenn can still build mine with the 42EC4/PY500 tubes.
 I was too busy rockin' to do any rollin'...
 Thanks again!!


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > parbaked has returned my GlennAmp OTL. Did you try any of the other rectifiers I sent along with the amp?
> ...


 

 Steven
 You want a OTL that uses 42EC4 rectifiers?
 Those TV damper diodes are powerful rectifiers and will put all the 5 volt rectifiers to shame.
 It will need two of them but they are cheep I bought a bunch for $1.00 each


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> Steven
> You want a OTL that uses 42EC4 rectifiers?
> Those TV damper diodes are powerful rectifiers and will put all the 5 volt rectifiers to shame.
> It will need two of them but they are cheep I bought a bunch for $1.00 each


 
 Glenn...I'm interested with whatever you feel like building as long as it has your monkey business.
  
 I liked your ideas for the ultra simple Putanexperimental:
 1. Your stash of TV tubes = triode strapped pentodes that can handle high current
 2. KISS design with no caps except in the power supply
 3. The 42EC4 rectifiers
  
 I know it takes much time to sort out a new design.
 I just figured you have been too busy to "experiment" after testing the first prototype. 
  
 Let's talk about what makes sense for you given your demand etc.
 S


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Steven
> You want a OTL that uses 42EC4 rectifiers?
> Those TV damper diodes are powerful rectifiers and will put all the 5 volt rectifiers to shame.
> It will need two of them but they are cheep I bought a bunch for $1.00 each


 
  
 My GlennAmp OTL was the best of 2012 using a 3DG4 and a 5AU4 rectifier.


----------



## whirlwind

OK.......I am sold on one of you OTL amps Glenn.
  
 It just seems to good to pass up.....please put me in line for one and pm me any details you need as far as upgrades and when you need the cash.
  
 Thanks very much, sir.


----------



## rosgr63

punit said:


> Don't have any in my collection. Do you have any recommendations amongst the ones that you have tried ?


 
  
 Sorry for the late reply.
 You can't get wrong with FIVRE preferably black plates, black or brown base.
 As for the DDR tubes try RWM with the ceramic holders.
  
  


parbaked said:


> Glenn...I'm interested with whatever you feel like building as long as it has your monkey business.
> 
> I liked your ideas for the ultra simple Putanexperimental:
> 1. Your stash of TV tubes = triode strapped pentodes that can handle high current
> ...


 
  
 Nice thoughts Steven!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

magiccabbage said:


> How many hours does it take you to put together the 300b compared to the OTL, Just out of interest?


 
  
  
 Have you asked Donald North or Jack Woo how long it takes to make their amps?


----------



## kazsud

rosgr63 said:


> Have you asked Donald North or Jack Woo how long it takes to make their amps?




He wasn't being sarcastic.


----------



## rosgr63

Neither was I


----------



## magiccabbage

rosgr63 said:


> Have you asked Donald North or Jack Woo how long it takes to make their amps?


 
 I have asked Donald not jack. He says that it varies


----------



## Xcalibur255

I thought it wasn't possible to do OTL without any caps in the audio signal path?  My understanding was the output coupling caps are there for safety reasons, though I have thought for a long time it would be a big win to be able to get rid of them since they are electrolytic and probably the only thing that holds the OTL back in terms of transparency.
  
 Glenn, you should try doing one with a 5687WA driver.  The more I have listened with my adapter the more I like this tube, and it is not properly biased running with 6SN7 operating points so I think this tube could sound even better.
  
 The 12B4A is another tube I came across in my readings that seemed like it might make a really good driver for an OTL?
  
 What do you think Glenn?


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> I thought it wasn't possible to do OTL without any caps in the audio signal path?  My understanding was the output coupling caps are there for safety reasons, though I have thought for a long time it would be a big win to be able to get rid of them since they are electrolytic and probably the only thing that holds the OTL back in terms of transparency.
> 
> Glenn, you should try doing one with a 5687WA driver.  The more I have listened with my adapter the more I like this tube, and it is not properly biased running with 6SN7 operating points so I think this tube could sound even better.
> 
> ...


 

 The amp He is talking about has output coupling caps just no other caps in the circuit. And no resistors
 it uses diode bias. Rectifier tubes for the cathode resistors and they don't need to be bypassed.
 Already made one of these amps just not quite finished I made it for my brother it uses strange tubes
 that I have a matched quad of.
  
 As far as the 5687 goes hell I don't even remember making you the adapter.  I would make amps with
 it but everybody wants to tube roll and that would leave few options.  Think I would make a OTL
 with the C3g as the driver first but that has the same problem with rolling.
 When I tried the C3g I think it sounded as good as the #10 I use in my 300B amps with much more gain.
  
 The 12B4 would make a nice output if many are paralleled they are like 1/2 a 6BL7 that I have used as
 outputs Stavros uses 6BL7s in his amp. Sound much better then 6AS7 but not as much drive.


----------



## kvtaco17

Lunch pics!
  

  

  
 A new visitor to my desk!
  

  

  
 He was kinda interested by my HD800's... they has some jazz playing through them and all he could do was stare...


----------



## 2359glenn

kvtaco17 said:


> Lunch pics!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Is that Greek food looks like kabobs with Tatziki that I had at Stavros house


----------



## kvtaco17

2359glenn said:


> Is that Greek food looks like kabobs with Tatziki that I had at Stavros house


 
 It is! AND it was delicious!


----------



## 2359glenn

kvtaco17 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Is that Greek food looks like kabobs with Tatziki that I had at Stavros house
> ...


 

 I hate you!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## kvtaco17

2359glenn said:


> I hate you!!!!!!!!!!!


 

 Ha and we all love your amps!
  
 I could box some up and ship them to you... but I really doubt it would be the same as the fresh, real deal lol


----------



## 2359glenn

This is what I am eating before I go to bed.
 Just came out of the oven hot sticky and sweet.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> Already made one of these amps just not quite finished I made it for my brother it uses strange tubes
> that I have a matched quad of.
> 
> Think I would make a OTL with the C3g as the driver first but that has the same problem with rolling.
> ...


 
 Hi Glenn,
 We'll eat some good Greek when you and L visit.
 Of course it's not Stavros' Mom good, but Clayton and I know some places that work.
 It will balance out the pizza and tequila!
  
 Back to the Putanexperimental...if you only have one quad of output tubes best to save all for your handsome brother and not make twin amps.
  
 We can do something else.  I like our idea of working with any good, under-used tubes and your leftover parts. 
  
 If you like the C3g driver OTL I don't need to roll tubes.
 1. What output tubes do you like with the C3g? Can you use the 6AS7?
 2. Can you use the small chassis and transformer that you have on hand?
 Let me know here or by email.
 Thanks!
 S


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> This is what I am eating before I go to bed.
> Just came out of the oven hot sticky and sweet.


 
 That's going to make Stavros VERY jealous!


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes but he won't see it until tomorrow.
 I have to send him a E-Mail


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> This is what I am eating before I go to bed.
> Just came out of the oven hot sticky and sweet.


 
 Monkey Bread! I love Monkey Bread.
 I spent the weekend here at _*Steep Ravine Cabins*_ and ate everything that wasn't nailed down.
.....


----------



## Ultrainferno

parbaked said:


> 1. What output tubes do you like with the C3g? Can you use the 6AS7?
> 
> S




I tried that combo before on my 339. Glenn made me 6sj7 to c3g adapters for it but I did not find it to sound good. 

Of course it might be a whole different story in another amp that was designed for that combo


----------



## rosgr63

Good morning you bad boys!!!!!!!
  
 I am on a diet and you are posting these lovely food photos...............come on show some compassion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> Good morning you bad boys!!!!!!!
> 
> I am on a diet and you are posting these lovely food photos...............come on show some compassion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  
 I haven't been eating any cookies and deserts and haven't had a beer since I met clayton in Amsterdam one month ago. It's pretty boring but I did loose a couple of kilograms and I can get back in my "old" pants


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I haven't been eating any cookies and deserts and haven't had a beer since I met clayton in Amsterdam one month ago. It's pretty boring but I did loose a couple of kilograms and I can get back in my "old" pants


 
  
 I should start doing that as well. I'm wearing very loose pants at the moment. I should also stay away from pasta and pizzas until next year. Right....


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> I am on a diet


 
 ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> I haven't been eating any cookies and deserts and haven't had a beer since I met clayton in Amsterdam one month ago. It's pretty boring but I did loose a couple of kilograms and I can get back in my "old" pants


 
  
  


clayton sf said:


> I should start doing that as well. I'm wearing very loose pants at the moment. I should also stay away from pasta and pizzas until next year. Right....


 
  
  
 I can give up carb and sugar but beer is my weakness, especially those craft beers.


----------



## rosgr63

alota said:


> ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  
  
 Aldo e ragazzo cattivo!!!!!!!!!


----------



## wotts

jc9394 said:


> I can give up carb and sugar but* beer is my weakness*, especially those craft beers.


 
  
  




  
 I do love me some beer.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I haven't been eating any cookies and deserts and haven't had a beer since I met clayton in Amsterdam one month ago. It's pretty boring but I did loose a couple of kilograms and I can get back in my "old" pants


 
  
 And did you actually do physical exercises as well, like running, and pushups, and situps to help lose those kilograms?


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I do love me some beer.


 
 Beer: never caught that train, free passes or otherwise. Champagne: a scenic journey full of beautiful bouquets. _and then there's those bubbles._..


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> And did you actually do physical exercises as well, like running, and pushups, and situps to help lose those kilograms?




Negative. I was sick a lot though and didnt eat much. I am finally better since last friday


----------



## jc9394

Play around with my new toy but I focus it on the transformer instead tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> Play around with my new toy but I focus it on the transformer instead tubes.


 

 Nice picture


----------



## Silent One

@ rosgr63
  
 Re: Joe Sample (R.I.P.)
 Where you at? I got him solid in the rotation this week.


----------



## whirlwind

jc9394 said:


> Play around with my new toy but I focus it on the transformer instead tubes.


 
 Beautiful pic, man.
  
 I have ordered Glenn's OTL and I am so stoked to hear it with my PS Audio Nuwave Dac & HD800.......I wish I could just time warp past christmas this year, so I could get my amp  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I guess, it will give me time to figure out what balanced headphone cable to get.
  
 Again, love that pic.


----------



## punit

> Originally Posted by *whirlwind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I guess, it will give me time to figure out what balanced headphone cable to get.


 
 You don't need balanced cable for Glenn's amp.  a 1/4th cable will sound the same.


----------



## parbaked

It's just a jack...you can spend your cable money on pizza and tequila...


----------



## rosgr63

silent one said:


> @ rosgr63
> 
> Re: Joe Sample (R.I.P.)
> Where you at? I got him solid in the rotation this week.


 
  
 Sorry to hear it SO.
 I wanted to cheer up so it was reggae this week, Bob Marley-Legend, The Jolly Boys, Eddy Grant, etc
  


ultrainferno said:


> Negative. I was sick a lot though and didnt eat much. I am finally better since last friday


 
  
 Sorry to hear it Lieven, I hope you are fine now.


parbaked said:


> It is just a balanced jack...you can spend your cable money on pizza and tequila...


 
  
 My kind of thinking, pure and simple like a silver cable.......


----------



## No_One411

My understanding is that the 4-pin is just at the connector level. Functionality wise, it is the same as the 1/4" plug, and is more for a convenience thing if nothing else. 
  
 Glenn did explain why he didn't think there would be any major benefits to going balanced, which was very helpful and honest. I do appreciate it over the usual marketing terms that companies do to convince you to go balanced.


----------



## parbaked

no_one411 said:


> My understanding is that the 4-pin is just at the connector level. Functionality wise, it is the same as the 1/4" plug, and is more for a convenience thing if nothing else.
> 
> Glenn did explain why he didn't think there would be any major benefits to going balanced, which was very helpful and honest. I do appreciate it over the usual marketing terms that companies do to convince you to go balanced.


 
 The 4-pin is there so you can invite your friends with balanced cans over and show them how much better your 'unbalanced' OTL is!
 You can serve them pizza and tequila.


----------



## No_One411

parbaked said:


> The 4-pin is there so you can invite your friends with balanced cans over and show them how much better your 'unbalanced' OTL is!
> You can serve them pizza and tequila.


 
 haha, I'm more of a whiskey person myself...or craft beer.


----------



## whirlwind

parbaked said:


> no_one411 said:
> 
> 
> > My understanding is that the 4-pin is just at the connector level. Functionality wise, it is the same as the 1/4" plug, and is more for a convenience thing if nothing else.
> ...


 
 So unless you already have cans that have a balanced cable, there is no use of getting the 4 pin XLR connector as there are no benefits, what so ever.....am I correct ?


----------



## parbaked

whirlwind said:


> So unless you already have cans that have a balanced cable, there is no use of getting the 4 pin XLR connector as there are no benefits, what so ever.....am I correct ?


 
 Yes...it's so you can use cans that have a balanced cable.
 The signal is not balanced.


----------



## whirlwind

parbaked said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > So unless you already have cans that have a balanced cable, there is no use of getting the 4 pin XLR connector as there are no benefits, what so ever.....am I correct ?
> ...


 
 Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## 2359glenn

The XLR connector has two separate  ground wires that go to the main star ground.
 So no cross talk in the ground wire.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Hey Stavros, are you going?


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Lieven, no I don't think so.


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> It's just a jack...you can spend your cable money on pizza and tequila...


 
  
 Hah! I agree. Speed tons of $$$ on an amp and you plug your $$$ headphones into a $49.95 headphone jack. What?
 I'll take a pizza with friends over a jack any day, unless, of course, you're sharing that pizza with someone named Jack.


----------



## jc9394

Before I post on for sales forum, anyone want a CETRON 6336A?  I purchased a pair last year and only used it for about an hour to make sure it is working.  Was intended to use with LCD-3 but never get around to purchase it.  I'm looking for $140 shipped CONUS.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn said:


> The XLR connector has two separate  ground wires that go to the main star ground.
> So no cross talk in the ground wire.


 
  
 Always wonder on this in an SE amp.  Thanks for the tip, Glenn.  
  
 I connected the two grounds at the XLR connector (then parallel to the TRS).  Electrically, would this be the same as connecting separately to star ground (save one wire run ?  I assume the same, separate star-ground connections for the speaker posts?


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The XLR connector has two separate  ground wires that go to the main star ground.
> ...


 

 It should work fine I use two grounds from the XLR and a seporate ground for the TRS.
 I use heavy wire so I don't think there would be any crosstalk but I use seporate wires anyway.
 This way if the headphone is wired with 4 wire balanced it stays 4 wire in the amp.


----------



## dminches

Glenn, I hope your brain is backed up.  There is way too much knowledge in there.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Glenn, I hope your brain is backed up.  There is way too much knowledge in there.


 

 No It is the simple stuff I forget


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn can't be backed up or duplicated David.
 His brain works on a proprietary format!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Glenn can't be backed up or duplicated David.
> His brain works on a proprietary format!!!!!!!!!


 

 We really don't want two of them one is bad enough


----------



## rosgr63

Dirty minds think alike.................


----------



## Neogeo333

this pic sums it up for you two.


----------



## whirlwind

neogeo333 said:


> this pic sums it up for you two.


----------



## longbowbbs

dminches said:


> Glenn, I hope your brain is backed up.  There is way too much knowledge in there.


 
 I totally concur...Amazing what Glenn knows about tubes and electronics!


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> dminches said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, I hope your brain is backed up.  There is way too much knowledge in there.
> ...


 





 At some point I'm going to have to update one of the Wiki's regarding the history of vacuum tube amplifiers. To show and go:
  
 - Beyond its birth
 - Golden age
 - Wake of debris left by solid state chips
 - How the French and Japanese audio enthusiasts kept the technology on life support
 - Renewed American interest shown by Gordon Rankin and others 
 - The explosion of head-fi
 - *And how 2359glenn|studio took the art of vacuum tube amplification into the 21st Century.*


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > dminches said:
> ...


----------



## rosgr63

I like it SO.
  
 George, you are so right...............that would be me, Glenn is thinking tubes and amps and electron flow.


----------



## 2359glenn

Kvtaco17 Thanks for showing the OTL at the Minneapolis meet.
 It seems to have been liked overall.
 Looks like you were running 5998s for outputs nice choice.


----------



## kvtaco17

Oh its no problem... It's my main rig, so it got showcased. I ran my set of 5998's cuz most people wanted to hear the HD800's with it.. Later on I swapped yo a pair of 6336's and ran some grados and even the lcd2.


----------



## 2359glenn

kvtaco17 said:


> Oh its no problem... It's my main rig, so it got showcased. I ran my set of 5998's cuz most people wanted to hear the HD800's with it.. Later on I swapped yo a pair of 6336's and ran some grados and even the lcd2.


 

 How did it drive the LCD-2s ?


----------



## kvtaco17

Very well... it had very good control of the driver and sounded good. No muddiness or distortion at all. While something like the Taboo MK3 sounds better with the LCD2, it's not so huge of a difference that I would have to own both amps (though I will get one eventually)


----------



## kvtaco17

Tonight's dinner!


----------



## punit

kvtaco17  does your OTL have the 6AS7 / 5998 switch ? If yes , I assume you ran the LCD's with 6336's on 5998 position. What Rec + Driver combination sounds best with the 6336 in your opinion for LCD's ?


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> kvtaco17  does your OTL have the 6AS7 / 5998 switch ? If yes , I assume you ran the LCD's with 6336's on 5998 position. What Rec + Driver combination sounds best with the 6336 in your opinion for LCD's ?


 
 I asked kvtaco17 if he had the 5998 mod or the 12/25 switch and he said he did not.
  
 You may want to confirm that with him, however.
  
 I think I want both in my amp


----------



## kvtaco17

punit said:


> kvtaco17 does your OTL have the 6AS7 / 5998 switch ? If yes , I assume you ran the LCD's with 6336's on 5998 position. What Rec + Driver combination sounds best with the 6336 in your opinion for LCD's ?




I honestly didn't spend enough time with them to change any tubes around much... I ran my mullard gz32 rectifier, tung-sol 6336 graphite plate, and a tung-sol vt231/6SN7 round plate...


----------



## kvtaco17

whirlwind said:


> I asked kvtaco17 if he had the 5998 mod or the 12/25 switch and he said he did not.
> 
> You may want to confirm that with him, however.
> 
> I think I want both in my amp


 
 Yup I don't have that switch, BUT I may go ahead and get it eventually...


----------



## Silent One

5998 mod; 12/25 switch: get 'em now so you can get out of your amp's way.


----------



## kvtaco17

silent one said:


> 5998 mod; 12/25 switch: get 'em now so you can get out of your amp's way.


 

 It'll be a second amp in black...


----------



## 2359glenn

kvtaco17 said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > 5998 mod; 12/25 switch: get 'em now so you can get out of your amp's way.
> ...


 

 Punit's amp in black is a little larger chassis then the one with the silver front
  
 You should go for the 300B amp with Lundahl transformers. In black of course.


----------



## kvtaco17

2359glenn said:


> Punit's amp in black is a little larger chassis then the one with the silver front
> 
> You should go for the 300B amp with Lundahl transformers. In black of course.


 
 That's a lot of tequila... BUT in all honestly I could want one, say this time next year? Savings will have to to made... while the wife isn't looking lol


----------



## Clayton SF

kvtaco17 said:


> Tonight's dinner!


 

 YUM!


----------



## Silent One

This past Saturday night, I attended the monthly Greenhaus Music Night @ Pitch Perfect Audio in Hollywood. Matt is a terrific host and had on hand a wide variety of wines and other beverages, cheese, nuts and good music. Despite having several records on hand, he encourages us to bring records from home to share. I brought some AFROBEAT (The legendary Tony Allen, Fela Kuti ect) and others brought some Marvin Gaye, Sun Ra, other Jazz, Electronica and so on. 
  
 Will likely return this coming Saturday night after his last appointment and share a bit of wine, music and convo with him briefly. His studio is located on Santa Monica Blvd in Hollywood just 1 block west of N. Gower St. So, what's so remarkable about the location? you ask. Well, just 4 blocks up @ Sunset & Gower is this place: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Honey and I will head over after we leave Matt's. I don't eat chicken - but "#7 Natalie's Special" awaits, 2 Waffles and then I'll have 2 glasses of milk to go widit!


----------



## punit

2359glenn said:


> Punit's amp in black is a little larger chassis then the one with the silver front
> 
> You should go for the 300B amp with Lundahl transformers. In black of course.


 
  

 I understand that the 300B amp with Lundahl transformers is primarily for Planars (Audeze & Hifiman's). So if someone who has Glenn's OTL plans to get the 300B amp then he will still have to keep the Otl for HD 800's & T1's.
  
 Glenn,
  
 Do you make one amp "to rule them all" ?


----------



## 2359glenn

punit said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Punit's amp in black is a little larger chassis then the one with the silver front
> ...


 

 The C3g > 300B amp with Lundahl transformers really rules everything.
 You have to ask dminches he owns one.


----------



## punit

dminches is  Selah as good as the OTL at driving HD 800 . Would be grateful for any insight as to Selah's capability with Dynamic HP's vs the OTL. If yes , then I have to start saving up.
  
 My ultimate Goal is to have one amp to rule them all, if possible ( LCD XC, HE 6, HD 800, T1 & TH 900 ). I don't know if that is a realistic goal.


----------



## preproman

These tubes maybe good for hard to drive headphones:
  
 http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML300B-XLS.htm
  
 http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML320B-XLS.htm
  
 Can the Selah use them?


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Lundahl OPT with selectable output impedances should rule 'em all...


----------



## Xcalibur255

There are pros and cons to having dual secondaries on your OPT.  My understanding is you cannot really make the amp zero feedback for both taps you have to pick one to favor which will mean one of them will have a SQ disadvantage built in.  I think this is why many amps with a low and high impedance or gain mode sound different, even tonally different, between the two modes.
  
 Output impedance is a difficult topic to wrap your head around.  I have read and read nothing really makes it clear.  Why does a SS amp with a 0.1 ohm output impedance have no trouble driving 600 ohm headphones when my 16 ohm output impedance tube amp does?  Part of it must be available voltage swing into the load, but I thought tubes did this job better than SS devices did?  So much confusing and conflicting information on this topic.
  
 I would literally paypal money to somebody in thanks if they could give an expert and clear explanation on the topic in full because I have wanted to understand this for years now.


----------



## Neogeo333

xcalibur255 said:


> There are pros and cons to having dual secondaries on your OPT.  My understanding is you cannot really make the amp zero feedback for both taps you have to pick one to favor which will mean one of them will have a SQ disadvantage built in.  I think this is why many amps with a low and high impedance or gain mode sound different, even tonally different, between the two modes.
> 
> Output impedance is a difficult topic to wrap your head around.  I have read and read nothing really makes it clear.  Why does a SS amp with a 0.1 ohm output impedance have no trouble driving 600 ohm headphones when my 16 ohm output impedance tube amp does?  Part of it must be available voltage swing into the load, but I thought tubes did this job better than SS devices did?  So much confusing and conflicting information on this topic.
> 
> I would literally paypal money to somebody in thanks if they could give an expert and clear explanation on the topic in full because I have wanted to understand this for years now.


 
 Im trying to find that answer too.  I've asked many people with vast knowledge on this topic or ralated to this only to find most have different opinion on it.  From America to Germany and Japan, each person have mentioned different things like its always sound better with this or that.  Some guys will always add more components to an amp other go minimalist.  
 I guess its a design they have tried and liked and stick with them.  Its hard to get one answer to a question.


----------



## Silent One

Earlier this year I bought a pair of Auto-formers for my 16 Ohm Output tube amps which gave me some flexibility. Though, driver sensitivity still matters.


----------



## 2359glenn

preproman said:


> These tubes maybe good for hard to drive headphones:
> 
> http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML300B-XLS.htm
> 
> ...


 

 Yes the transformers are big enough to handle these tubes.
 And it has manual bias so it can be set higher to accommodate these tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> There are pros and cons to having dual secondaries on your OPT.  My understanding is you cannot really make the amp zero feedback for both taps you have to pick one to favor which will mean one of them will have a SQ disadvantage built in.  I think this is why many amps with a low and high impedance or gain mode sound different, even tonally different, between the two modes.
> 
> Output impedance is a difficult topic to wrap your head around.  I have read and read nothing really makes it clear.  Why does a SS amp with a 0.1 ohm output impedance have no trouble driving 600 ohm headphones when my 16 ohm output impedance tube amp does?  Part of it must be available voltage swing into the load, but I thought tubes did this job better than SS devices did?  So much confusing and conflicting information on this topic.
> 
> I would literally paypal money to somebody in thanks if they could give an expert and clear explanation on the topic in full because I have wanted to understand this for years now.


 
 There is to much going on to explain this here. It is more then just the impedance it is the interaction between the tube transformer and load.
 Your 45 amp might be running out of voltage. It is 1.5 watts into 16 ohms allot less into 600 ohms.


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > There are pros and cons to having dual secondaries on your OPT.  My understanding is you cannot really make the amp zero feedback for both taps you have to pick one to favor which will mean one of them will have a SQ disadvantage built in.  I think this is why many amps with a low and high impedance or gain mode sound different, even tonally different, between the two modes.
> ...


 

 I go minimalist less is more.
 The more parts the more noise the more change to the signal.  This is why I don't understand the balanced amp thing
 essentially it is two amps driving each side of the headphone.  Just marketing to get people to buy stuff that actually degrades the sound.
  
 In the 300B amp with manual bias there is no cathode resistor or cathode resistor bypass cap.
 The output stage is only the 300B and output transformer and the last capacitor in the power supply.
 As minimal as I can get it.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Interesting Glenn, how do you manually bias the grid?  Battery or rectify the negative voltage?  I keep auto-bias cathode resistor since the negative voltage is too funky to wrap my head around.


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> Interesting Glenn, how do you manually bias the grid?  Battery or rectify the negative voltage?  I keep auto-bias cathode resistor since the negative voltage is too funky to wrap my head around.


 

 The power transformer has a bias winding and I make a negative voltage and run it to pots then a resistor
 to the grid.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> There is to much going on to explain this here. It is more then just the impedance it is the interaction between the tube transformer and load.
> Your 45 amp might be running out of voltage. It is 1.5 watts into 16 ohms allot less into 600 ohms.


 
 The nitty gritty detail is what I would love to hear though.


----------



## Silent One

Perhaps, we could get the Cliff Glenn-notes...


----------



## 2359glenn

Lucy is making another monkey bread it should be out of the oven in a hour.
 Hot and sticky.
 Clayton I wish I could send you some.
 This is after she made Chinese dumplings for dinner. I was going to take a picture
 but I couldn't Waite and ate them.


----------



## Neogeo333

Talking about dumplings,  going to NY for a week to get stuffed with dim sum.   Any news on my monkey business amp Glenn?


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Talking about dumplings,  going to NY for a week to get stuffed with dim sum.   Any news on my monkey business amp Glenn?


 

 The Monkey business is in the works.
 Dim sum I need to go to NY for dumplings and pizza.  Lucy can make some darn good dumplings
 But we don't have the right oven for pizza.


----------



## Neogeo333

If you can make it to NY I will take you to dinner.  There's a new place in Flushing I want to try out.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> The Monkey business is in the works.
> But we don't have the right oven for pizza.


 
 Hi Glenn,
 That monkey bread looks soo good!
 Because of Lucy's contributions you should upgrade all your amps to "Monkey Bread Business"...much "sweeter"!
  
 Pizza:
 If you want to make great pizza at home you can build a FrankenWeber out of a pizza stone, a Weber and a propane burner.
 That is how our local pizzeria, Pizza Hacker, started. 
 http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/03/my-pizza-oven-pizza-hacker.html
  
 If you google "frankenweber" you can find instructions or plans etc. You can build a 900 degree oven easy...but that doesn't mean you don't still visit me us in SF for our good pizza!


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Lucy is making another monkey bread it should be out of the oven in a hour.
> Hot and sticky.
> Clayton I wish I could send you some.
> This is after she made Chinese dumplings for dinner. I was going to take a picture
> but I couldn't Waite and ate them.


 
  
  
 It looks so good!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Lucy is making another monkey bread it should be out of the oven in a hour.
> Hot and sticky.
> Clayton I wish I could send you some.
> This is after she made Chinese dumplings for dinner. I was going to take a picture
> but I couldn't Waite and ate them.


 
  
 WANT! That looks incredible.
 Monkey Business and Decadent Dumplings.
 What next?
 UltraChocolates
 UltraBeer
 UltraBliss?
 Yummy....


----------



## gibosi

Glenn,
  
 Given how well regarded the GZ32 / CV593 rectifier is in your OTL, I was thinking it might be interesting to try some American equivalents. The National Valve Museum lists 5AQ4, 52KU, 5V4G and 5Z4G. Radio Museum lists only 5AQ4 and 5V4G. Can you confirm that some or all of these are suitable?
  
 And has anyone tried any of these American tubes?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Glenn,
> 
> Given how well regarded the GZ32 / CV593 rectifier is in your OTL, I was thinking it might be interesting to try some American equivalents. The National Valve Museum lists 5AQ4, 52KU, 5V4G and 5Z4G. Radio Museum lists only 5AQ4 and 5V4G. Can you confirm that some or all of these are suitable?
> 
> And has anyone tried any of these American tubes?


 

 The 5V4 and 5Z4 cannot handle the current the amp draws.
 the rectifier has to handle at least 250ma  300ma would be better


----------



## Neogeo333

Wife took me to dinner tonight.   All you can eat too.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> The 5V4 and 5Z4 cannot handle the current the amp draws.
> the rectifier has to handle at least 250ma  300ma would be better


 
  
 Thanks Glenn.
  
 And after perusing eBay, it appears that there really aren't any American versions of this tube. They all appear to be European or Russian versions of the GZ32.... But I did manage to pick up a nice pair of 5AW4's for a good price the other day, so life is good.


----------



## Clayton SF

Say no more.
 Breakfast is ready!
 Or lunch is served.
 Or whatever!


----------



## Neogeo333

Here's my breakfast and lunch.


----------



## rosgr63

Nice George!!!!!!
  
 Maybe it's time to think silver wire transformers........................


----------



## Neogeo333

Hello Stavros,  that means the mad scientist is about to make the finishing touches I presume.   Have a big bottle of bier for the big day.


----------



## rosgr63

You must be very exited!!!!!!!
  
 Can't wait to se some photos


----------



## gibosi

Recently came across an adapter to allow the use of two 2C22's in place of a 6SN7. A casual Google search turned up an Audioasylum posting touting these as very good. Has anyone tried a pair in a Glenn OTL?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-2C22-2C22-6C8C-7193-CV6-TO-6SN7-Vintage-Vacuum-TUBE-SOCKET-CONVERTER-ADAPTER-/321551695442?


----------



## rosgr63

We have talked about them before actually.
  
 I have a similar adaptor and 7193 tubes but never tried them yet.


----------



## Neogeo333

An L63 tube adapter to 6sn7 would be nice.  God knows the prices for British 6sn7 variants have skyrocked recently.


----------



## gibosi

neogeo333 said:


> An L63 tube adapter to 6sn7 would be nice.  God knows the prices for British 6sn7 variants have skyrocked recently.


 
  
 As the 6J5 and L63 have the same pin-out, this should work:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-6J5-6J5-to-6SN7-Vacuum-tube-adapter-socket-converter-02-/300962555935?


----------



## gibosi

rosgr63 said:


> We have talked about them before actually.
> 
> I have a similar adaptor and 7193 tubes but never tried them yet.


 
  
 Thanks for the tip. A search for 7193 and 2C22 here and in the 6SN7 thread doesn't yield very much. It would appear that if anyone here has tried them, they haven't posted anything. So I will put this on my list of tubes that might be worth a try.


----------



## Silent One

Despite having an estimated 90 days to work with, I'm trying to carve out space in the rack for Selah's sister. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Though, I've a strong feeling I might need to just get a stand alone wooden stand for her.


----------



## punit

silent one said:


> for Selah's sister.


 
 We will be relatives soon in the near future


----------



## rosgr63

rosgr63 said:


> Here they are, waiting for my adapter so I can test them.


 
  
 For the record, here they are post 4390 date 8/14/13
  


gibosi said:


> Thanks for the tip. A search for 7193 and 2C22 here and in the 6SN7 thread doesn't yield very much. It would appear that if anyone here has tried them, they haven't posted anything. So I will put this on my list of tubes that might be worth a try.


 
  
  
 Very Nice!!!!!!
  


silent one said:


> Despite having an estimated 90 days to work with, I'm trying to carve out space in the rack for Selah's sister.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Great news!!!!!!!
  
  


punit said:


> We will be relatives soon in the near future


----------



## rnadell

Been a while since I have visited. First off I would like to again thank Glenn
 for building me an amp that has destroyed any desire to look further. I listen
 to it every day without issue. It is the first time in my audio history dating back
 to the late 60's that I can listen to the music without thinking about highs, bass,
 and all the rest of the stuff that goes with the search. Thank you Glenn.
 And to all here that helped with my decision thank you.


----------



## slim.a

Hello everyone,
  
 I have just posted a review of Glenn's amplifier here: http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/42754587-building-a-reference-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier
  
 The version of the amplifier I have is the one that allows the use of six-6BL7s as output tubes.
  
 Below is a picture of the amplifier in my system:

  
  
 The amplifier sounds fantastic. Thanks again Glenn for making such a terrific headphone amplifier!


----------



## punit

Great Review


----------



## slim.a

punit said:


> Great Review


 
  
 Thanks for the kind words! I just hope it did justice to Glenn's fantastic amplifier.


----------



## Ultrainferno

"If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, you've measured the wrong thing"
  
 Did you measure the Glenn amp?


----------



## whirlwind

Fantastic review.....well done.


----------



## Brendanz

slim.a said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have just posted a review of Glenn's amplifier here: http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/42754587-building-a-reference-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier
> 
> ...


 
 Is that a special version of Glenn's OTL ?


----------



## Silent One

punit said:


> Great Review


 


whirlwind said:


> Fantastic review.....well done.


 
 plusONE!


----------



## punit

@ slim.a
  
 There is only one area which is not adequately covered by the review  . The amazing price / performance ratio of Glenn's amp vis-a-vis other amps. I have had the good fortune of being able to try a few amps in the higher price range & IMHO based on my limited experience, you need to go up more than double the cost to get the same level of performance.


----------



## No_One411

slim.a said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have just posted a review of Glenn's amplifier here: http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/42754587-building-a-reference-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the great write-up! 
  
 This only makes me want to hear the Glenn OTL more now...


----------



## punit

brendanz said:


> Is that a special version of Glenn's OTL ?


 

 All of Glenn's amps are Special 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is one of the versions that he makes.


----------



## slim.a

Thanks guys for the nice comments!


----------



## slim.a

punit said:


> @ slim.a
> 
> There is only one area which is not adequately covered by the review. The amazing price / performance ratio of Glenn's amp vis-a-vis other amps. I have had the good fortune of being able to try a few amps in the higher price range & IMHO based on my limited experience, you need to go up more than double the cost to get the same level of performance.


 
  
 Hi punit, I suspect that price / performance ratio of Glenn's amplifier is exceptionally good. Though, given that I did not have amplifiers costing more, I could not attest about that.
  
 Also, whenever I am reviewing a piece of gear, I try to forget about the price and try to describe it "as is". Nonetheless, if I try to compare it to other amplifiers I have listened to, I would say that his amplifier has indeed the highest performance relative to price I have come across. 
  
 Moreover, if one were to be to shopping for a speaker amplifier, I don't believe that there is anything in the four figure range that can approach it. As a matter of fact, I have simply never heard an amplifier that had that many qualities.
  


brendanz said:


> Is that a special version of Glenn's OTL ?


 
  
 When I ordered my amplifier from Glenn, he told me at the time that the only other amplifier he had made with 6BL7 tubes was rosgr63's. I do not know if he has made similar ones since then.


----------



## whirlwind

I am waiting for an OTL from Glenn and after reading reviews like this one, I get even more excited to hear it.
  
 It also makes me very glad that this is the route that I chose to go.......I have heard nothing but great praise for Glenn and I am so glad I will be able to experience the pleasure of listening and owning one of his amps.
  
 I hope my HD800 appeciates it


----------



## rosgr63

rnadell said:


> Been a while since I have visited. First off I would like to again thank Glenn
> for building me an amp that has destroyed any desire to look further. I listen
> to it every day without issue. It is the first time in my audio history dating back
> to the late 60's that I can listen to the music without thinking about highs, bass,
> ...


 
  
 Glenn makes some of the very best amps.
 The more you'll listen to it the more you'll like it.
  


slim.a said:


> Thanks for the kind words! I just hope it did justice to Glenn's fantastic amplifier.


 
  
 As always you spent a lot of time and made every effort to write a honest, detailed and impartial review.
 Thanks for all the hard work.
 I know you have optimised your system to the maximum, but in the future it would be nice if you could try some more rectifiers and drivers not to mention the 6336A's.
  


punit said:


> All of Glenn's amps are Special
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Indeed, all Glenn's amps are *Special*


----------



## slim.a

rosgr63 said:


> Glenn makes some of the very best amps.
> The more you'll listen to it the more you'll like it.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Indeed, Glenn makes the amps one by one and all of them are Special 
  
 As for the tube rolling, I should be getting the following in the coming weeks :
 - A Sophia 6SN7 (grade A)
 - A set of GE 6BL7s
 - A 5AR4 rectifier tube
 - A 5AU4 rectifier tube
  
 I have yet to try the 6336As. Is there any consensus on good 6336As to buy?
  
 I will post a follow-up to the review when I get more tubes to experiment with. Also, I will post next a review of the HD800 and give more musical examples (and more insight) into the Glenn / HD800 pairing.


----------



## 2359glenn

slim.a said:


> rosgr63 said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn makes some of the very best amps.
> ...


 
 Slim.A
 Thanks for the great Review.
 The 6336 tubes are for low impedance cans if you are using the T1 & HD800s
 The 6BL7s will sound best.


----------



## rosgr63

That's right but a pair of Cetron driving some Grados will be a great review.


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone here about the new Audeze prototype Z.
 Well, it has sparked my interested in the Glenn OTL again.
 People are saying that the 1200 ohm headphone would be great to pair with an OTL
  
 What do you think Glenn?


----------



## dminches

I am listening to the SACD of Beggar's Banquet with my LCD-3s and Selah.  I feel bad for the rest of you since you can't hear this.  Jagger is in my head.  This is the #1 combination in headphonia.
  
 And, Selah is total eye candy.
  
 Thanks Glenn!


----------



## Neogeo333

dminches said:


> I am listening to the SACD of Beggar's Banquet with my LCD-3s and Selah.  I feel bad for the rest of you since you can't hear this.  Jagger is in my head.  This is the #1 combination in headphonia.
> 
> And, Selah is total eye candy.
> 
> Thanks Glenn!


 
 Post more pics David.  Gonna join you soon enough.  Might be the best Christmas present ever.  In the mean time keeping busy will be a pair of these.  

 Nothing too serious, would just ask a friend to build a open baffle for them to try.


----------



## dminches

I will post some tomorrow.  Too tired after a long work day.


----------



## Neogeo333

Nothing  beats coming  home  to a nice cold beer and some Glenn amps to listen to.   At least in this steamy hot island.


----------



## Xcalibur255

1200 ohm? 
  
 No seat at that table for me then.
  
 I'm still bummed the HE560 was revised from 35 to 60 ohms.  The closer I can get to 16 the better.


----------



## Silent One

dminches said:


> I am listening to the SACD of Beggar's Banquet with my LCD-3s and Selah.  I feel bad for the rest of you since you can't hear this.  Jagger is in my head.  This is the #1 combination in headphonia.
> 
> *And, Selah is total eye candy.*
> 
> Thanks Glenn!


 






 That's some good looking candy right there! I can only imagine what "Sympathy For The Devil" sounds like with Selah.
  
  


dminches said:


> I will post some tomorrow.  Too tired after a long work day.


 





 Go ahead...make our Friday!
  
  


xcalibur255 said:


> 1200 ohm?
> 
> No seat at that table for me then.
> 
> I'm still bummed the HE560 was revised from 35 to 60 ohms.  The closer I can get to 16 the better.


 




  
 Last year I used naked Zero-Autoformers to bring my 61 Ohm HE-6 down to 16 Ohms for the 16 Ohm speaker taps on the Shindo Lab monos:
  
 http://www.zeroimpedance.com/products.html


----------



## Xcalibur255

I don't believe in adding more things to the signal chain.  It goes against KISS.  The less there is in the signal chain the better.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm starting to think maybe I should just consider my LCD-2 as my endgame.  They sound extraordinarily good with _Kanade_ with the right 45s in.  It sounds complete, nothing to want for, with one exception.  My LCD-2 are awful with piano.  There is some kind of ringing/resonance going on that might be unique to my pair.  For everything else my recent listening sessions have been sublime ever since I finally found a pair of 45 tubes that aren't junk.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

xcalibur255 said:


> They sound extraordinarily good with _Kanade_ with the right *45s* in....For everything else my recent listening sessions have been sublime ever since I finally found a pair of *45* tubes that aren't junk.


 
  
 Which 45 tube amp do you have?  I dig 45 tubes but rarely see any 45-based head amp out in the wild.


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> I don't believe in adding more things to the signal chain.  It goes against KISS.  The less there is in the signal chain the better.


 
 Generally speaking yes, but one should also consider what's needed.


----------



## 2359glenn

Finally received the transformers and choks that were on order for months
 This is my latest amp running a Ken-Rad 1633/25SN7 for the driver.
 This amp has the 6.3-12.6-25.2 volt switch I moved it to the back instead
 of having it on the top. It also has the 6AS7/5998 switch on the back.


----------



## rosgr63

It looks nice, I bet it sounds great!


----------



## 2359glenn

This has the new chokes too made by the same company as the transformers.


----------



## whirlwind

Very nice, Glenn.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Very nice, lucky for the new owner!  Yummy 4-pin xlr...


----------



## punit

May I humbly suggest to all people on the Glenn amp waiting list to go for the Gold Point stepped attenuator ( if budget permits). One of the best (if not the best) attenuator I have had the pleasure of turning. So solid & smooth.


----------



## 2359glenn

It's a pleasure for me to work with too.  A little pricey but worth it.


----------



## whirlwind

I will give it a good amount of thought....maybe I will go for it on mine.


----------



## JoelT

punit said:


> May I humbly suggest to all people on the Glenn amp waiting list to go for the Gold Point stepped attenuator ( if budget permits). One of the best (if not the best) attenuator I have had the pleasure of turning. So solid & smooth.


 
 The lack of channel imbalance that I've read about is enough reason for me to opt for it when my number is up. If the knob-feel is excellent, that's icing on the cake! Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Go for a volume knob with a larger diameter and slightly higher weight for optimum results.


----------



## whirlwind

xcalibur255 said:


> Go for a volume knob with a larger diameter and slightly higher weight for optimum results.


 
 Explain....please


----------



## parbaked

I believe the message is that you will not get as much tactile pleasure from a small knob....


----------



## longbowbbs

parbaked said:


> I believe the message is that you will not get as much tactile pleasure from a small knob....


 
 ??!!Size Matters?? Who knew??


----------



## whirlwind

parbaked said:


> I believe the message is that you will not get as much tactile pleasure from a small knob....


 
 thanks....guess i should have figured as much.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Right.  I'm just suggesting from personal experience that larger size knobs with a bit more material weight feel better mechanically with the goldpoint.  With a smaller knob the steps are very pronounced and clicky.


----------



## parbaked

xcalibur255 said:


> Right.  I'm just suggesting from personal experience that larger size knobs with a bit more material weight feel better mechanically with the goldpoint.  With a smaller knob the steps are very pronounced and clicky.


 
 http://knobfeel.tumblr.com/


----------



## whirlwind

xcalibur255 said:


> Right.  I'm just suggesting from personal experience that larger size knobs with a bit more material weight feel better mechanically with the goldpoint.  With a smaller knob the steps are very pronounced and clicky.


 
 Got it.....thanks.


----------



## wotts

parbaked said:


> http://knobfeel.tumblr.com/


 
  
  
 I've read a few of these before. I forgot all about it.


----------



## Silent One

The knob on my Pre is so buttery smooth, you'll wanna touch & turn whether music is playing or no.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Just dropping in to say hi, it's been a while. I have to admit I haven't listened to my 300B amp in a very long time, it's all been solid state lately (Violectric V281 and Beyerdynamic A2)
 But that didn't stop me from buying these RK60s on ebay


----------



## punit

ultrainferno said:


> Just dropping in to say hi, it's been a while. I have to admit I haven't listened to my 300B amp in a very long time, it's all been solid state lately (Violectric V281 and Beyerdynamic A2)
> But that didn't stop me from buying these RK60s on ebay


 
 You 300B uses these as rectifiers ? I thought Glenn's 300B's used PY500 / 42EC4 as rectifiers ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I use an adapter glenn made me


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> Just dropping in to say hi, it's been a while. I have to admit I haven't listened to my 300B amp in a very long time, it's all been solid state lately (Violectric V281 and Beyerdynamic A2)
> But that didn't stop me from buying these RK60s on ebay


 
 What do you think of the V281 - I have heard great things about it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Love it. especially in balanced mode. It has more power than you will ever need and compared to the V200 I have the SQ went up a lot.
 Review soon!


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Love it. especially in balanced mode. It has more power than you will ever need and compared to the V200 I have the SQ went up a lot.
> *Review soon!*


 
 Can't wait! Read that The Lake People really put some thought into the V281. I nearly bought the V181 from my dealer two years prior. If only I were nearly your neighbor, I'd bang on your door to borrow:
  
 1. The 2359glenn 300B
 2. Waffles AND some French bubbly!


----------



## dminches

Question for the group. Should there be a difference in the quality of the output from a headphone amp between balanced and unbalanced? If so, why?

Also, Glenn, is your 4 pin XLR output true balanced?

I know this topic gets beaten to death, but I'd like those here to chime in.


----------



## Neogeo333

I'm one of the skeptical that think it does sound better.   Maybe it's that all my 4pins cables are better quality than the stock 1/4 cable.   Send it back to the mad scientist to modify it.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Question for the group. Should there be a difference in the quality of the output from a headphone amp between balanced and unbalanced? If so, why?
> 
> Also, Glenn, is your 4 pin XLR output true balanced?
> 
> I know this topic gets beaten to death, but I'd like those here to chime in.


 

 Hi David
 No all of my amps are single ended.
 The output transformers in your amp can be wired to have a center tap that when grounded the
 output would be truly balanced. even though the amp is single ended.
 I don't think going truly balanced will improve the sound over just a 4pin XLR. The balanced
 thing is a bunch of BS in a headphone amp just a marketing thing that people fall fore.
  
 The only benefit  I can see by putting in a 4pin XLR would you can possibly get a better cable
 for your headphone.
 Your amp even using the 1/4" TRS jack the SQ will blow any balanced amp out of the water.


----------



## dminches

Thanks Glenn. I really wasn't talking about Selah but amps in general. People seem to think that a balanced amp sounds better. I don't understand why. It seems like the difference is in the grounding.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Thanks Glenn. I really wasn't talking about Selah but amps in general. People seem to think that a balanced amp sounds better. I don't understand why. It seems like the difference is in the grounding.


 

 Really all balanced amps are SS and I don't know how using 4 amplifiers for stereo
 instead of 2 sounds better.  Twice the number of parts to screw up the sound.
 Shouldn't be saying this will cause a uproar.
  
 When I was saying hooking a center tap on the output transformer I was talking about Selah.
 It can be done with those transformers and have true balanced output.


----------



## Ultrainferno

The V281 solid state offers both SE and balanced. the Balanced out really sounds a lot better than the SE out. Wider soundstage, more detail, more air, etc
 How is that explained Glenn? I believe you, I always have about the balanced thing, but the difference in sound is remarkable


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> The V281 solid state offers both SE and balanced. the Balanced out really sounds a lot better than the SE out. Wider soundstage, more detail, more air, etc
> How is that explained Glenn? I believe you, I always have about the balanced thing, but the difference in sound is remarkable


 

 The output impedance and output voltage gets doubled. Maybe made a better match for
 the headphones you were using.


----------



## rosgr63

I agree most balanced amps are SS.
 I don't know of many/any tube amps that can do the phase inversion and that are fully balanced.
 The one that comes to mind is one of the SP amps which never worked properly from what I remember.
  
 My RudiStor is a truly balanced SS amp and the SE and Balanced outputs sound different due to the increased output voltage which drives some headphones better.
 I did some experiments sometime ago using a HD650 when I changed the SAA cable from Balanced to SE and noticed a difference.


----------



## dminches

rosgr63 said:


> I agree most balanced amps are SS.
> I don't know of many/any tube amps that can do the phase inversion and that are fully balanced.
> The one that comes to mind is one of the SP amps which never worked properly from what I remember.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Stavros.
  
 Does "difference" mean better or just different?  Did you prefer one over the other?


----------



## parbaked

Hi Stavros!
 Please explain in terms I can understand.
 Is doubling the output voltage twice as good...like getting two pizzas?
 Thanks!


----------



## rosgr63

Hi David and Steven,
  
 Nice to hear from you both.
  
 In my case the headphones were driven better in the balanced configuration.
  
 To make things more complicated the HD650 sounded even better with a RAL cable even though it was Single Ended!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jc9394

rosgr63 said:


> I agree most balanced amps are SS.
> I don't know of many/any tube amps that can do the phase inversion and that are fully balanced.
> The one that comes to mind is one of the SP amps which never worked properly from what I remember.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree, the balanced SS amp I have is β22 with dual σ22, it drives the LCD-2 and HD800 much better than using the SE output.  Even my wife can tell the difference.


----------



## Ultrainferno

jc9394 said:


> Even my wife can tell the difference.


 
  
 It's funny you say that. My GF doesn't get past: These pads are softer


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> It's funny you say that. My GF doesn't get past: These pads are softer


 
  
 Normally she can't tell the difference but now with only one headphone, HD800, she pays more attention to the quality of sound instead of clammy (is this a word?) or comfort.  
  
 My work finally wind down a bit, it is almost time for this.


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's nice! Enjoy every single drop of it!


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Normally she can't tell the difference but now with only one headphone, HD800, she pays more attention to the quality of sound instead of clammy (is this a word?) or comfort.
> 
> My work finally wind down a bit, it is almost time for this.


 






 Do it like you know you can!


----------



## Glam Bash

rosgr63 said:


> I agree most balanced amps are SS.
> I don't know of many/any tube amps that can do the phase inversion and that are fully balanced.
> The one that comes to mind is one of the SP amps which never worked properly from what I remember.
> 
> ...


 
 My Audio Research VT100 is differential balanced, but I would have to dig the manual out of the attic to see what it does with the RCA inputs. I also have nightmares about retubing all the 6550's...


----------



## Ultrainferno

It's been a while since I posted a bad quality pic of my listening room with my desktop gear. I cleaned it up just last week and now it's only showing the gear I use most, all the other amps and headphones are in boxes, including the portable gear. (GF was about to kill me)
  

  
 Headphones from L to R: Beyer DT770AE / Beyer T70 / Beyer T90 / Audeze LCD2.1 / LCD- XC / Hifiman HE400i / HE560 / HE400 / HE500
 Amps: Bottlehead Crack / LaFigaro 339 / Glenn 300B / Violectric V281 / Beyerdynamic A2 / Violectric V200 / Rein X Amp


----------



## dminches

That is a very sweet-looking setup.


----------



## 2359glenn

Nice
 Never knew you had so many Headphones


----------



## whirlwind

Very nice.


----------



## longbowbbs

Great Variety Ultra! You can really get the mood you want with that collection.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks guys, now if only I had more time to really enjoy it all.
 Glenn, I have about 30 head- and earphones in total but these are the ones I listen to most at home. I have another 5 pair of headphones at work together with 3 DACs and 3 amps.
  
 I know it's all too much but it just keeps growing. I'm afraid my portable collection is even bigger.


----------



## whirlwind

ultrainferno said:


> Thanks guys, now if only I had more time to really enjoy it all.
> Glenn, I have about 30 head- and earphones in total but these are the ones I listen to most at home. I have another 5 pair of headphones at work together with 3 DACs and 3 amps.
> 
> I know it's all too much but it just keeps growing. I'm afraid my portable collection is even bigger.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Thanks guys, now if only I had more time to really enjoy it all.
> Glenn, I have about 30 head- and earphones in total but these are the ones I listen to most at home. I have another 5 pair of headphones at work together with 3 DACs and 3 amps.
> 
> I know it's all too much but it just keeps growing. I'm afraid my portable collection is even bigger.


 
  
 You ought to set up a few bedside systems in your guest room.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> You ought to set up a few bedside systems in your guest room.


 
  
 I will when you come over for my marriage!
 you will have to share it with Gateau though, she kind of stole the big bed from you


----------



## gibosi

Has anyone tried a 6463 in their Glenn OTL? While I am waiting for mine, I have decided to check out 6463, 6350 and ECC813, all of which have the same pin-out, in another amp. So far, I have RCA and Sylvania 6350's, an RFT ECC813 and a Telefunken 6463 on their way to me.


----------



## 2359glenn

The best sounding tube compliment is
 Sylvania 5AW4   Ken-Rad 1633     GEC 6AS7
  

  
 Thanks Punnit for lending me the GEC 6AS7s


----------



## punit

You are most welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Time to take a break from making amps for a few days & just sit back & enjoy the music.
  
 Edit - Quite fitting that this should be my 1000'th post.


----------



## punit

Do the CBS 5AW4 & Sylvania 5AW4 sound different ? I have the CBS, should I also get the Syl ?


----------



## 2359glenn

The Sylvania looks Identical to the CBS I think they were both made by the same company.
 I will give you another one for a spare not sure of the label but it will be the same tube.


----------



## MIKELAP

I got a question for you guys can a c3g type tube be mounted horizontally. Thanks .


----------



## Ultrainferno

those tubes are so tough you could even use them upside down


----------



## MIKELAP

ultrainferno said:


> those tubes are so tough you could even use them upside down


 
 There not that tuff, that is if you manage to insert them without cracking them this happened to a few guys on the LittleDot thread including myself bad production who knows never had that happen to me before. Thanks


----------



## 2359glenn

C3g tubes can be run in any position.
 Only direct heated tubes have to be run upright due to filament sag and causing a short.
 tubes like 5U4 and 300B 2A3 have to be run upright.


----------



## Silent One

"Happy Thanksgiving everyone!"


----------



## longbowbbs

Happy Thanksgiving to my friends at 2359Glenn!


----------



## Clayton SF

Happy Thanksgiving. I am listening to the Leben CS600 tonight. Tomorrow it will be the Glenn Monos!
 Once again I am Amp Rolling!
  
 CD: Astrud Gilberto, a gift from Silent One.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> Happy Thanksgiving. I am listening to the Leben CS600 tonight. Tomorrow it will be the Glenn Monos!
> Once again I am Amp Rolling!
> 
> CD: Astrud Gilberto, a gift from Silent One.


 
 That is a great way to spend an evening, Clayton!


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> That is a great way to spend an evening, Clayton!


 
  
 Thanks! I am really enjoying this evening. Tomorrow will be even better. How is your deck? Snowy and fluffy yet? You live in a very beautiful area of this country (any pix?). Have a very Happy Thanksgiving, longbowbbs! ))


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > That is a great way to spend an evening, Clayton!
> ...


 
 We received 18 inches a couple of weeks ago and then another 10 Monday. Winter came early! The deck is well and truly covered. -2 tonight!  I'll have to takes some pics of this season and post them.


----------



## parbaked

Happy Thanksgiving All!
  

  
 I hoping Clayton shows up in time for turkey tomorrow...he's rolling Thanksgiving dinners too!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Happy Thanksgiving All!
> 
> I hoping Clayton shows up in time for turkey tomorrow...he's rolling Thanksgiving dinners too!!!!


 
  
 LOL.
                    You are so funny!
 and
        so
 kind
     to invite
                 me
 to attend your
               Parents'
 T H A N K S G I V I N G
      dinner
 whilst I battle
 the traffic
 of Northern California
  
            I'll
 text you on the way
 back 2 get
         THE directions
                               much needed
                                          to maneuver back
                               to the City that when I arrive
              will never sleep.


----------



## rosgr63

Happy Thanksgiving!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


>


 
  
 Could I borrow that exact combo right there, C?


----------



## Franchetti1

hello can you make me a rk60 to 5u4 adaptor so i can use the tube on my decware csp3? Thank you


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Could I borrow that exact combo right there, C?


 
  
 Yes. And by the time you come visit me, I may have quite a few more combos for you to try--if they last. 
 Of course we could get more.


----------



## Silent One

@ Clayton SF
 May Astrud's vocals transport you back in time...
  
  
 @ 2359glenn
 After successfully cooking up many a good times for members in the studio, how's the cooking in the kitchen coming along?


----------



## Neogeo333

Happy Thanksgiving to all.


----------



## longbowbbs

Here's a picture for Clayton from this morning. -7 F


----------



## 2359glenn

A belated Happy Thanksgiving
 Was travailing all day to go back to up state New York so I cold have a white and cold Thanksgiving
 like it used to be when I lived here.


----------



## 2359glenn

franchetti1 said:


> hello can you make me a rk60 to 5u4 adaptor so i can use the tube on my decware csp3? Thank you


 

 Yes I can PM me and I will give you the details.
  
 Glenn


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> Here's a picture for Clayton from this morning. -7 F


 
 Thanks, longbowbbs. Beautiful.
  
 Yesterday I got these photos from my friend living in Leicester, MA.
  
 I miss snow.


----------



## Clayton SF

I hope everyone enjoyed their Thanksgiving!
  
 Glenn, my Glenn Amp OTL has high gain and the volume gets loud quickly. The left channel is slightly louder than the right until I turn up the volume and then it is too loud to listen to comfortably when both channels are balanced. Is there a tube that you can recommend to bring the gain down? The amp is mighty fine and built like tank (almost weighs as much as one too!).


----------



## punit

clayton sf said:


> Glenn, my Glenn Amp OTL has high gain and the volume gets loud quickly. The left channel is slightly louder than the right until I turn up the volume and then it is too loud to listen to comfortably when both channels are balanced. Is there a tube that you can recommend to bring the gain down? The amp is mighty fine and built like tank (almost weighs as much as one too!).


 
 May I ask what tubes are you using now ? Have you thought about upgrading the volume pot. On my Glenn OTL , with the Goldpoint attenuator there is no imbalance at all, even at the first volume step.


----------



## Clayton SF

punit said:


> May I ask what tubes are you using now ? Have you thought about upgrading the volume pot. On my Glenn OTL , with the Goldpoint attenuator there is no imbalance at all, even at the first volume step.


 
  
 G.E. 6AS7GA
 6SN7GT
 Sylvania 3DG4
  
 I agree that the Goldpoint stepped attenuator is an excellent volume pot but I have no soldering skills. I owned a Woo Audio 2 that had a Goldpoint (and Blake Gate caps!).


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> I hope everyone enjoyed their Thanksgiving!
> 
> Glenn, my Glenn Amp OTL has high gain and the volume gets loud quickly. The left channel is slightly louder than the right until I turn up the volume and then it is too loud to listen to comfortably when both channels are balanced. Is there a tube that you can recommend to bring the gain down? The amp is mighty fine and built like tank (almost weighs as much as one too!).


 

 Clayton is this something that just started?? You have one of the oldest ones it couldn't have
 been like this all along? Did you try changing the 6SN7?


----------



## Clayton SF

It has always been that way but has become more noticeable at low the volume setting since I've been using sensitive headphones like the Denon D7000. It not as noticeable with the Beyer DT900 600 Ohms.


----------



## 2359glenn

I forgot what pot I used in that amp it was one of the first ones I made.
 Not sure if I was using Alps Blue velvet then they aren't the greatest ether
 with channel balance at low volume.
 Can you take the bottom off and take a pix of the pot? And send it to me.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> I forgot what pot I used in that amp it was one of the first ones I made.
> Not sure if I was using Alps Blue velvet then they aren't the greatest ether
> with channel balance at low volume.
> Can you take the bottom off and take a pix of the pot? And send it to me.


 

 Sure. I love to look at your creative innards, Dr. Glenn!


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Thanks, longbowbbs. Beautiful.
> 
> Yesterday I got these photos from my friend living in Leicester, MA.
> 
> I miss snow.


 
  
  
 What snow?  I did not see any here...


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I forgot what pot I used in that amp it was one of the first ones I made.
> ...


 
  
 That is a Alps pot they don't always track well.
 The best thing to do is replace with a Gold Point stepped attenuator.
 or solder in a resistor on the input to reduce gain by 50% then use the upper portion of the pot.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> That is a Alps pot they don't always track well.
> The best thing to do is replace with a Gold Point stepped attenuator.
> or solder in a resistor on the input to reduce gain by 50% then use the upper portion of the pot.


 
  
 Ah. With your guidance, please show me how to solder in a resistor. You've helped me solder before. There is no reason not to do it again.


----------



## rosgr63

Al Green is on the decks, Let's Stay Together.


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > That is a Alps pot they don't always track well.
> ...


 

 OK I will do the pix like last time and walk you through it.
 Do you have any of the 22K ohm resistors left??


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> OK I will do the pix like last time and walk you through it.
> Do you have any of the 22K ohm resistors left??


 
  
 I think you gave me 4 of them and I've used 2. So I must have 2 somewhere. I just have to look for them.


----------



## MIKELAP

I have to make a comment ,why is it after using the search function on this thread i ended up being hungry damm its like the food network on here lol keep on cooking guys lol.


----------



## rosgr63

We are mostly doing the eating....................


----------



## dminches

rosgr63 said:


> We are mostly doing the eating....................


 
  
 Then why are you so thin????


----------



## rosgr63

Hi David,
  
 I am just hiding my fat belly.............


----------



## dminches

If your mom cooked for me most days I would weigh 400 pounds.


----------



## rosgr63

Actually she's very tough, she has me on a diet now.................
  
 You'd be fine David, she cooks very simple but delicious dishes.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Actually she's very tough, she has me on a diet now.................
> 
> You'd be fine David, she cooks very simple but delicious dishes.


 

 David I gained 15lbs in 10 days eating his Moms cooking
 Have to try her home made noodles out of this world.


----------



## dminches

I believe you more than Stavros.


----------



## 2359glenn

It might be she cooks especially good and fattening food while we are there.
  
 Greek food is wonderful and most is healthy mostly fruit and vegetables.
  
 Of course we also had Indonesian food and lots of it while we were there.


----------



## Clayton SF

Yes. I've put myself on a strict no-red-meat diet:
  
 Deep fried salt & pepper fish with a healthy portion of brown rice.


----------



## 2359glenn

My cancer doctor told me I have to loose weight and I have to go on a low
 carb diet. I love carbs noodles and rice this is going to be tough.
 That salt and pepper fish with brown rice looks wonderful making me hungry at 10pm


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> My cancer doctor told me I have to loose weight and I have to go on a low
> carb diet. I love carbs noodles and rice this is going to be tough.
> That salt and pepper fish with brown rice looks wonderful making me hungry at 10pm


 
 I gave up all types of bread in March - that was really tough


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Al Green is on the decks, Let's Stay Together.


 
 I'm feelin' the vibe ALL the way in SoCal!


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> My cancer doctor told me I have to loose weight and I have to go on a low
> carb diet. I love carbs noodles and rice this is going to be tough.
> That salt and pepper fish with brown rice looks wonderful making me hungry at 10pm


 
 Surely hauling all that iron around the studio should build muscle. Wishing you nuthin' but the best - will be tuff at first but you can do it!


----------



## rosgr63

silent one said:


> I'm feelin' the vibe ALL the way in SoCal!


 
  
 Dionne Warwick is on the decks now


----------



## rosgr63

Today I received a huge box from Glenn I am in a good mood now, excited but won't open it until Christmas Eve.


----------



## punit

rosgr63 said:


> Today I received a huge box from Glenn I am in a good mood now, excited but won't open it until Christmas Eve.


 

 Can we get a hint ?


----------



## rosgr63

He's been very bad again and he's spoiling me.
  
 I assure you I don't deserve it.
  
 I'll take some photos in a couple days.
  
*Thanks Glenn and Lucy*


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> He's been very bad again and he's spoiling me.
> 
> I assure you I don't deserve it.
> 
> ...


 
 The way you might tear into that package, we gonna need a YouTube vid!


----------



## dminches

rosgr63 said:


> Today I received a huge box from Glenn I am in a good mood now, excited but won't open it until Christmas Eve.


 
  
 Stavros, I am fearful that something bad may be in the box.  I suggest you mail it to me for inspection.


----------



## 2359glenn

It is something crazy I will explain after the box is opened.


----------



## 2359glenn

I see somebody else on head fi was a bad boy.
 I just got a box from UPS


----------



## dminches

Tis the season...


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Tis the season...


 

 Thank you David
 I will open it on Christmas
  
 Glenn


----------



## Clayton SF

Thank you, Stavros, for your Christmas / Happy New Year card which came all the way from Greece! You made my rather dull day very happy, exciting, and merry! You gussied up my day at work, home, and play!
  
σας ευχαριστώ


----------



## Ultrainferno

So nice to see the friendships made here. I haven't been around much but I'll certainly try to come by more regularly.
  
 Merry Chrismas everyone!
  

(I professionally copied that from the Beyerdynamic Christmas Email 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## whirlwind

Yeah, this is a great thread...with great people....and that snow globe is very cool!
  
 I don't post a great deal in this thread, but I always check it out.
  
 once i get my amp, I am sure i will post more......but i just enjoy checking out what everybody is eating


----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> Thank you, Stavros, for your Christmas / Happy New Year card which came all the way from Greece! You made my rather dull day very happy, exciting, and merry! You gussied up my day at work, home, and play!
> 
> σας ευχαριστώ


 

 You are most welcome Clayton, anything to make you smile.


----------



## longbowbbs

It is a bit early but one of my favorite Christmas gifts each year is my friends here. A safe and happy holiday season to everyone!
  
 Eric


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> It is a bit early but one of my favorite Christmas gifts each year is my friends here. A safe and happy holiday season to everyone!
> 
> Eric


 
 +1
 The sense of community here is great!


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> The sense of community here is great!


 
 SO, you started a nice thing here that has attracted generous and funny folk who do love to eat and share...
  
 Clayton is coming over for Christmas Eve dinner.
 Our tradition is to feast on seafood.
 We will drink our carbs!
 We might even crack into the last case of Kachina bubbly...
  
 Stavros...you made our day here too!
 You are so thoughtful...M sends a BIG hug and kiss!!


----------



## gibosi

First I would like to say, I hope everyone is having a great holiday and that 2015 is the best year ever! 
  
 And now I have a tube question:
  
 Over in Dubstep Girl's rectifier thread, a number of folks have been very impressed with the Brimar 5Z4GY. Does anyone know if this tube is suitable in Glenn's OTL? That is, is it able to provide enough current to run the amp? And if so, has anyone tried one?
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> SO, you started a nice thing here that has attracted generous and funny folk who do love to eat and share...
> 
> Clayton is coming over for Christmas Eve dinner.
> Our tradition is to feast on seafood.
> ...


 
  
 And to think--I bonded with parbaked over food in SF's Tenderloin area, dried bubble gum that resembled the Virgin Mary, an extended courtroom stay, slick encouragement from Ultra-, Stavros, Glenn, SO, longbowbbs, dminches, magiccabbage (greener than green) and others (you know who you are) ... not to mention a light discussion of vacuum tubes / valves.
  
 Y'all are at the high end of the sound spectrum with no fatigue, of course.


----------



## punit

gibosi said:


> Over in Dubstep Girl's rectifier thread, a number of folks have been very impressed with the Brimar 5Z4GY. Does anyone know if this tube is suitable in Glenn's OTL? That is, is it able to provide enough current to run the amp? And if so, has anyone tried one?


 
 I was going to send a PM to Glenn with the same question.
  
 Merry Christmas everyone.Best Wishes for the coming year & hope you experience great aural pleasures (preferably through Glenn's amps).
  
 BTW I just moved houses, have about 30 boxes to unpack. One of first boxes I unpacked was the one containing Glenn's OTL & quickly setup a temp listening station in the corner of the room on the floor (don't have all the furniture yet), so I could take short listening beaks while unpacking. My wife just shook her head & rolled her eyes in resignation


----------



## rosgr63

Merry Christmas all.
  
 A special thanks to Glenn, and all the valuable friends I've made all over the world sharing this crazy hobby.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> First I would like to say, I hope everyone is having a great holiday and that 2015 is the best year ever!
> 
> And now I have a tube question:
> 
> ...


 

 Merry Christmas everyone !
  
 The 5Z4 is not powerful enough for my OTL amp. it only can handle 125ma and the amp draws 220ma through
 the Rectifier.  It might work for awhile ultimately it will blow up.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Merry Christmas everyone !
> 
> The 5Z4 is not powerful enough for my OTL amp. it only can handle 125ma and the amp draws 220ma through
> the Rectifier.  It might work for awhile ultimately it will blow up.


 
  
 Exactly, I blew 2 of them when I tried that last year


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Merry Christmas everyone !
> ...


 

 And your amp draws less through them 300B 70 ma each plus C3g 20ma each. 
 All together 180ma in your 300B amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ultra's 5Z4 blew up right before his very eyes. Sizzle pop!


----------



## Neogeo333

Merry Christmas to all!! 
  
 Started dinner early here.  Have fun and be safe everyone.


----------



## Clayton SF

neogeo333 said:


> Merry Christmas to all!!
> 
> Started dinner early here.  Have fun and be safe everyone.


 

 Enjoy your dinner. My dinner with parbaked will start in a few hours. Dinner that is; drinks, on the other hand, will start a bit earlier.


----------



## GrindingThud

Yum time!


----------



## Silent One

Holiday Cheers To All Of You!!!




  
 I dig hangin' out with the members who frequent this thread.


----------



## Neogeo333

Packing all my stuff for NY.  I keep forgetting something important.
  

  
 Ohh yes, clothes.  
  
 May all of you have a good time tonight and a happy new year!


----------



## GrindingThud




----------



## rosgr63

neogeo333 said:


> Packing all my stuff for NY.  I keep forgetting something important.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Merry Christmas George!
  
 That's a nice collection
  
 Clothes?...................Don't need any, get your priorities right


----------



## Neogeo333

Merry Christmas Stavros, 
  
 Your right winter clothes take up too much space. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Still feeling the effect of Johnny Walker.  Need greasy food.


----------



## rosgr63

Now you are making more sense..................


----------



## rosgr63

Steven and Clayton have a great time don't stay up late S&M have a plane to catch tomorrow.
  
 Have a great holiday, enjoy your stay.


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Steven and Clayton have a great time don't stay up late S&M have a plane to catch tomorrow.


 
 Thanks Stavros.
 We started extra early and had a fabulous evening!
 There's leftover crab but all the wine and bubbly are gone.....


----------



## rosgr63

The crab sounds great


----------



## 2359glenn

Merry Christmas to all
 I hope every body has a good time and eats to much


----------



## rosgr63

I am trying to recover Glenn ate too much again


----------



## longbowbbs

Steaks are on the grill!


----------



## Neogeo333

longbowbbs said:


> Steaks are on the grill!


 






  Cant wait to go to Luger again.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just got home from all the food parties. Its 11.36 PM here, gf is in bed and I locked myself up in my office for some late night listening.
 The 300b amp + Hifiman HE-560 is up now, oh I missed this. Can something sound any better?


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> Cant wait to go to Luger again.


 
 That...please!


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> Steven and Clayton have a great time don't stay up late S&M have a plane to catch tomorrow.
> Have a great holiday, enjoy your stay.


 
  
  


parbaked said:


> Thanks Stavros.
> We started extra early and had a fabulous evening!
> There's leftover crab but all the wine and bubbly are gone.....


 
  
 Thanks, Stavros & Steven.
  
 The crab cut my left thumb badly that Steven had to bring out the First Aid Kit and apply antibacterial oink-ment and wrap a Band-Aid tightly around said wound.  And the crab was already cooked!
  
 Look at what Santa Steven dropped off this Christmas morning.


----------



## Neogeo333

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b2XYZ-YQEM
  
 This is my kind of cafe.  Could just sit there for hours.  Now, there should be a tube Tuesday cause I dont see any.


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy New Year Everyone
  
 Have to get working on a C3g > 300B amp with output transformers with all silver windings now.


----------



## longbowbbs

Happy New Year Glenn! Keep raising the Audio bar!


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Happy New Year Everyone
> Have to get working on a C3g > 300B amp with output transformers with all silver windings now.


 
 Happy New Year, Glenn; everyone.
 Is this the same as my amp but with silver windings?
 I just said goodnight to parbaked in Japan. He's already into 2015 and has been sending me photos of the food he has been enjoying in there. I am constantly hungry. Apparently he has found a French restaurant that has reasonably priced, good food. Not to mention excellent Japanese food.


----------



## rosgr63

Happy New Year!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Happy New Year everyone.
 I have already bought my first amp of 2015


----------



## punit

Happy New Year fellow tube lovers


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Happy New Year everyone.
> I have already bought my first amp of 2015


 
  
 WHAAAAAAAAAA?


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > Happy New Year everyone.
> ...


 
 He does have somewhat of a time zone advantage on us....


----------



## Neogeo333

Happy new year everyone!


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> WHAAAAAAAAAA?







longbowbbs said:


> He does have somewhat of a time zone advantage on us....




I am keeping the Violectric v281 ss amp but I am only paying in January


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > WHAAAAAAAAAA?
> ...


 
 Just in today...


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> Just in today...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: WHAAAAAAAAAA?
> ...


 

 WHAAAAAAAAAA?
 You guys!
 I've got to play catch up!


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Just in today...
> ...


 
 Clayton, the world is playing catch up to you my friend! This is the new Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson. It is a hybrid with a single 6922. I am thawing it out after shipping.


----------



## Clayton SF

longbowbbs said:


> Clayton, the world is playing catch up to you my friend! This is the new Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson. It is a hybrid with a single 6922. I am thawing it out after shipping.


 

 But I only have the original Liquid Fire hybrid with four 6922 tubes. He's cut it down to one? Nice.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Clayton, the world is playing catch up to you my friend! This is the new Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson. It is a hybrid with a single 6922. I am thawing it out after shipping.
> ...


 
 Yes. This is the LF's successor. It is spectacular too...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Going to be some fun listening sessions for a bit!


----------



## parbaked

Happy New Years all!
We're already having our traditional Japanese New Years breakfast of mochi rice cakes with dashi broth.
Tomorrow we're off to Naoshima Island. It is a private island with fantastic modern art museums and installations. I have been dying to go there for years....excited!!
Play safe tonight and have fun!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Happy New Years all!
> We're already having our traditional Japanese New Years breakfast of mochi rice cakes with dashi broth.
> Tomorrow we're off to Naoshima Island. It is a private island with fantastic modern art museums and installations. I have been dying to go there for years....excited!!
> Play safe tonight and have fun!


 
  
 I'm still trying to find my ticket to Japan. Don't wait up. Enjoy, my friend.


----------



## wotts

Happy New Year to all my friends here!

I hope it's a wonderful year for you all.


----------



## longbowbbs

wotts said:


> Happy New Year to all my friends here!
> 
> I hope it's a wonderful year for you all.


 
 Happy New Year Wotts!


----------



## dminches

What is the current market value for a pair of NOS GEC A1834/CV2523/6AS7Gs?  I have a couple pair sitting around that I may sell.


----------



## kazsud

dminches said:


> What is the current market value for a pair of NOS GEC A1834/CV2523/6AS7Gs?  I have a couple pair sitting around that I may sell.


 

 $400-500 for a GEC 6AS7G matched pair.


----------



## dminches

Whoa


----------



## Neogeo333

That is if they are NOS with the round base and have original  box.   Otherwise there's a few here for 180ish.   Definitely they are wonderful tubes.   Sold mine then regreted and brought a pair.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I would say 300 euro at least for the round base on ebay.

I bought gec straight base for 17 euro a pop....


----------



## Neogeo333

Finally got to try the spaghetti puttanesca sauce.   Very good indeed.   Thanks you guys for the recommendation. 

  

  

  

 Great place in Brooklyn named Il Colosseo.


----------



## Silent One

1. "Happy 2015 to all of you!"





  
 2. To grub in Brooklyn


----------



## whirlwind

what ever is in the 2nd picture down, in that broth....looks very tasty


----------



## Neogeo333

whirlwind said:


> what ever is in the 2nd picture down, in that broth....looks very tasty


 
 That's veal marsala.   The seafood salad and spaghetti puttanesca were the best that night.   The marsala was a bit too sweet for me.   All of that for under 90 it was a good deal.


----------



## Clayton SF

FOOD!
  
 I got lazy (I've had 5 days off from work) so I smashed Tater Tots in a waffle iron. It's crispy and the waffle iron smells like Tater Tots.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Wait. Waffles and ketchup?!!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Wait. Waffles and ketchup?!!


 
  
 No, no, no. They are _*hash browns and ketchup*_.


----------



## wotts

I'll admit it, that's brilliant. I wonder how it will work with shredded hashbrowns... I know what I'm doing for dinner.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just found this funny picture I wanted to share
  

  
 It's a stairway to Waterloo's lion (see here). It says: "French fries are not allowed on the stairs"
 How much more Belgian can a sign be?


----------



## Silent One

Good one!


----------



## jc9394

Checking in and found myself 15 pages behind.  Happy New Year to everyone!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Checking in and found myself 15 pages behind.  Happy New Year to everyone!!!


 
  
 That's okay. Good to see you here too. I've been busy eating and looking at new cooking devices. Food Amps!


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> That's okay. Good to see you here too. I've been busy eating and looking at new cooking devices. Food Amps!




C dont forget going to that store opening I posted on your Facebook page


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Checking in and found myself 15 pages behind.  Happy New Year to everyone!!!


 
 Great to have you back! 





 "Happy 2015 jc9394!"


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have a rectifier with a broken guide pin. Is it safe to use in your 300B amp, Glenn? Anyone?


----------



## wotts

As long as the tube is inserted into the socket correctly, there will be no problem. I have a few tubes with a broken guide pin and have had no issues.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> I have a rectifier with a broken guide pin. Is it safe to use in your 300B amp, Glenn? Anyone?


 

 Yes it will be fine.
 You should be able to see were the guide pin was and line it up with the keyway on the socket.
  
 Then you can get one of these and put it on the tube and make things easier
  

  
 .


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thank you guys


----------



## Clayton SF

By far the best sounding rectifier in my GlennAmp Mono Blocks. On the left: Mullard GZ37 / CV378.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Really nice C!


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks, U
  
 After moving half of my amps from my closet to my bedroom, I decided to put those monos to work again with the Decware CS2+
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/529140/show-us-your-head-fi-station-at-its-current-state-no-old-pictures-please/19425#post_11259254


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> By far the best sounding rectifier in my GlennAmp Mono Blocks. On the left: Mullard GZ37 / CV378.


 

 Hi Clayton
 I recommend the GZ37 for all my amps including the OTL only the WE422 with adapter can best it.


----------



## jc9394

Clayton, fire up that amp I need to move to somewhere warmer and NO snow...


----------



## Ultrainferno

So pretty!


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> So pretty!


 

 Not so pretty if you line in the north east USA that can happen every week
 if you live by the great lakes.
  
 You should try that GZ37 in your amp


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> So pretty!


 
  
  


2359glenn said:


> Not so pretty if you line in the north east USA that can happen every week
> if you live by the great lakes.
> 
> You should try that GZ37 in your amp


 
  
  
 As Glenn said, not so pretty if you live in north east of US.  It dumped around 30" on snow in 24 hours and some area with over 36", definitely not too pretty if you need to get out 4 times to clear the snow.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I always like snow, as long as it isn't on the roads here. But I've been skiing since I was 5, snow relaxes me.
  
 In my 300B I have the 1641/RK60 as rectifier. I only have one GZ37 and it's life is almost over. A new NOS GZ37 is so expensive though


----------



## dminches

NOS GZ37s are $100, right?


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> NOS GZ37s are $100, right?


 

 The last one I bought was around $100 but that was a year ago.


----------



## Oskari

Hundred or so, for a Blackburn GZ37. High Wycombe, likely quite a bit more.


----------



## Clayton SF

GZ37 is $110-$125. A very nice sounding tube!
 Surprisingly, though, the GZ34 sounds very good too.
 Not as warm, but incredibly detailed.


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's about the price yes. The GZ33 is a bit cheaper but doesn't sound as good to me


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> That's about the price yes. The GZ33 is a bit cheaper but doesn't sound as good to me


 

 Have you used the GZ34? I've never listened to Glenn's Mono Blocks with headphones--just with my Zu Audios. Which brings in another variable: loud speakers.
  
 You'll have to visit and listen to my collection of tubes and amps. Maybe one amp a day?


----------



## punit

2359glenn said:


> Yes it will be fine.
> You should be able to see were the guide pin was and line it up with the keyway on the socket.
> 
> Then you can get one of these and put it on the tube and make things easier
> ...


 

 Does anyone have a link for buying this guide pin ?


----------



## rosgr63

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390812191230?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## 2359glenn

http://thetubedepot.com/
  
  



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----------



## gibosi

Hey Glenn,
  
 How about an amp based on the Western Electric 212E or one of its variants? 
  
 But I don't see any of these on eBay and suspect they are very rare and expensive......


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> Hey Glenn,
> 
> How about an amp based on the Western Electric 212E or one of its variants?
> 
> But I don't see any of these on eBay and suspect they are very rare and expensive......


 
  
 Have you won the lottery? Here is a hot rolling tip for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0287.htm


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Hey Glenn,
> 
> How about an amp based on the Western Electric 212E or one of its variants?
> 
> But I don't see any of these on eBay and suspect they are very rare and expensive......


 

 Tube Depot has them for $1699.99 each and the output transformer for these beauty's is going to be expensive.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Tube Depot has them for $1699.99 each and the output transformer for these beauty's is going to be expensive.


 
  
 Even more expensive than I expected. But I am not surprised.... While researching the 6463 double triode, I stumbled across this review of a pair of 212E monoblocks built by Nori Komuro costing $45,000 for the pair. So yes indeed, I definitely need to win the lottery! lol. 
  
 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/roadtour14/roadtour14.html


----------



## Oskari

The 4212E is an imposing sight. I've only ever seen one. In a museum, in an old transmitter.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Tube Depot has them for $1699.99 each and the output transformer for these beauty's is going to be expensive.
> ...


 

 Nice Amps I would like to know who made the transformers.


----------



## 2359glenn

oskari said:


> The 4212E is an imposing sight. I've only ever seen one. In a museum, in an old transmitter.


 

 Being wasted collecting dust.


----------



## Oskari

2359glenn said:


> Being wasted collecting dust.


 
  
 It could have been a dud.
  
 Personally I think that $45k amplifiers are more wasteful than that museum exhibit.


----------



## 2359glenn

If you have duds there are company's that rebuild transmitter tubes.
 Basically they put in a new filament/cathode.  don't know how much it costs though.
 Mostly for old radio station tubes and for induction heaters.


----------



## Oskari

Apparently there is a company making new ones as well.
  

http://www.fullmusictube.com/psvane-we212-replica-vacuum-tubes.html


----------



## Silent One

WE212
  






 That's some beautiful glass right there. I too, would like to know about the transformers used by Komura.


----------



## 2359glenn

oskari said:


> Apparently there is a company making new ones as well.
> 
> 
> http://www.fullmusictube.com/psvane-we212-replica-vacuum-tubes.html


 

 Almost as expensive as NOS but good to know someone is still making them


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> WE212
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Can get a good Lundahl transformer 5K primary that can handle that voltage.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Can get a good Lundahl transformer 5K primary that can handle that voltage.


 
 Interesting. Wonder what your custom built amp would sound like with that glass compared to:
 - 300B
 - 2A3
 - 45
 - 51
 ect...


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> Hundred or so, for a Blackburn GZ37. High Wycombe, likely quite a bit more.


 
  
 There appear to be two variants of the High Wycombe tube, one fat and the other thin, and the thin one is priced about the same as the Blackburn. Can anyone comment on how the fat and thin ones compare to each other and to the Blackburn in a Glenn OTL? And I guess the real question is, if the Blackburn and the thin High Wycombe can be had for about the same price, which is the better buy?


----------



## Oskari

Can you show us a skinny Wycomber?


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> Can you show us a skinny Wycomber?


 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/COSSOR-GZ37-53KU-VALVES-TESTED-BRITISH-TUBE-/281570064613?
  
 But now a glimmer of understanding is creeping into my brain...  These skinny Cossors are probably just rebranded Blackburns..... Yes?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm still looking for a nice simple Blackburn GZ37 if anyone has a spare at a good price


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> But now a glimmer of understanding is creeping into my brain...  These skinny Cossors are probably just rebranded Blackburns..... Yes?


 
  
 I think so.


----------



## Neogeo333

I have both the Mullard slim bottle gz37 and Cossor fat glass.   With my limited time on the Glenn Otl I preferred the fatties.   Tad warmer sound and darker background compared to the Mullard.   It been a while since the otl had a British rectifier in  it.   Mostly it's a potato masher 5ar4 these days.  It sound much livelier.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Glenn,
> ...


 
 Hope all is well in your days and nights.
  
 Last week, gibosi's inquiry left me intrigued over the WE-212E. While stuck yet again in L.A. traffic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I began thinking of maybe even selling my car to finance a special project around this glass. Perhaps, new frontier for both of us? I wonder what a properly spec'd Lundahl tranny goes for to handle such glass...
  
 (_S.O. quietly leaves the thread but continues to daydream._..)


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > gibosi said:
> ...


 

 Would also need custom wound power transformers to supply 1500 volts DC to the plate.  Fun project though.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just sold my last two Mighty 596 tubes. I got the asking price as well, might use the money to find a fat bottle GZ37


----------



## dminches

What did you get for them?  I have a good number left but haven't thought about selling them.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Let me answer that in a PM


----------



## listen4joy

anybody knows how the DNA stratus  compare to Glenn with hd800? i mean its more expensive by margain. i want to know if the best
 glenn with 8 tubes can compare to the dna stratus or the big boys? really curious saw this thread and look like a glenn is great deal but can here compare the big boys? i have bottlehead crack+sb he is really good but not good as vallhala 2 WA22 or glenn. i consider glenn as a good option but i need to know if he can compete with stratus liquid cavali eddie current etc..


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Would also need custom wound power transformers to supply 1500 volts DC to the plate.  Fun project though.


 
 It'd be a wonderful audio pursuit. One that we would cherish for the rest of our lives.
 So that you don't scare me off in public, perhaps you could PM a wild estimate
 for said custom Lundahl transofrmer (and your labour & out the door estimate to L.A.).
  
 If the estimate returns heartburn, maybe we go SE. If I simply need to chew/digest more slowly, then mono blocks.


----------



## rosgr63

To all tube lovers happy St Valentine's day!


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Valentines day everyone


----------



## longbowbbs

Happy Valentines Day to all my friends! Be Well!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Happy Valentines day everyone!
 I may have already told a couple of you, but I asked my girlfriend to marry me a while back, and she said yes! We'll be getting married in October


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Would also need custom wound power transformers to supply 1500 volts DC to the plate.  Fun project though.
> ...


 

 Probably $2.5K to $3K plus the price of tubes that will be another $3K.
 I looked and can get sockets for this tube
 I would use damper diodes for rectifiers or two 596 with there 7000 volt rating if they still can be gotten.
 And a C3g to KT88/6550 for the drive.


----------



## wotts

ultrainferno said:


> Happy Valentines day everyone!
> I may have already told a couple of you, but I asked my girlfriend to marry me a while back, and she said yes! We'll be getting married in October


 
  
  
 Congratulations!


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Happy Valentines day everyone!
> I may have already told a couple of you, but I asked my girlfriend to marry me a while back, and she said yes! We'll be getting married in October


 




 Outstanding move.._.it was time._


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *2359glenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Probably $2.5K to $3K plus the price of tubes that will be another $3K.
> ...


 
 Not nearly the cardiac shock I had feared. Seems at once reasonable and doable. I own a few of _The Mighty 596_ but would prefer damper diodes and Siemens C3g -> KT88s. Well, providing I can raise the funds later this year.
  
 I'm definitely intrigued!


----------



## 2359glenn

Here are a couple of Pic of my latest build.
 It can use a C3g or 6SN7-12SN7- 25SN7/13D1/1633 for the driver.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> Here are a couple of Pic of my latest build.
> It can use a C3g or 6SN7-12SN7- 25SN7/13D1/1633 for the driver.


 
  
 Nice, Glenn....what sort of $$$ are we looking at here please?...


----------



## whirlwind

Wow, glenn....that looks incredible, sir.


----------



## 2359glenn

It gives capability to use C3g for diver that I believe sounds better then a 6SN7
 but also can run all varieties of 6SN7s + has the 5998 switch and properly run the 5998


----------



## whirlwind

Wow....very nice, indeed.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Here are a couple of Pic of my latest build.
> It can use a C3g or 6SN7-12SN7- 25SN7/13D1/1633 for the driver.


 
 A wonderful winter release!
  
 2015 could be the year we help you take RMAF by _storm..._


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Here are a couple of Pic of my latest build.
> It can use a C3g or 6SN7-12SN7- 25SN7/13D1/1633 for the driver.


 
  
 Yes, indeed, it does look incredible! And I can't wait to see how it looks -- and sounds -- in my house!!


----------



## whirlwind

I think this means I am up next   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Congrats Gibosi....I can't wait to hear your impressions.


----------



## dminches

ultrainferno said:


> Happy Valentines day everyone!
> I may have already told a couple of you, but I asked my girlfriend to marry me a while back, and she said yes! We'll be getting married in October


 
  
 Congrats.  That is great news.


----------



## preproman

WOW  this line is getting long.  I hope to be in on a spring build.  I'm looking at an OTL amp that has six 6BL7 tubes and a pair of 6AS7 tubes specifically for the HD800s..  
  
 I can't wait for my build to start..


----------



## 2359glenn

preproman said:


> WOW  this line is getting long.  I hope to be in on a spring build.  I'm looking at an OTL amp that has six 6BL7 tubes and a pair of 6AS7 tubes specifically for the HD800s..
> 
> I can't wait for my build to start..


 

 It is six 6Bl7s or two 6AS7s or two 5998 or two 6336 if you want to use low impedance phones.


----------



## preproman

Awe sh%^$%  Well what ever it is - I can't wait....


----------



## Silent One

@ prep!


----------



## punit

preproman said:


> WOW  this line is getting long.  I hope to be in on a spring build.  I'm looking at an OTL amp that has six 6BL7 tubes and a pair of 6AS7 tubes specifically for the HD800s..
> 
> I can't wait for my build to start..


----------



## kvtaco17

2359glenn said:


> Here are a couple of Pic of my latest build.
> It can use a C3g or 6SN7-12SN7- 25SN7/13D1/1633 for the driver.




Dont hate me if I bug you to build me that and sell my existing amp...


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi Glenn,
  
 Once again I am enjoying your Mono Blocks with the Zana Deux SE as a preamp. They make beautiful music this Sunday afternoon!


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Hi Glenn,
> 
> Once again I am enjoying your Mono Blocks with the Zana Deux SE as a preamp. They make beautiful music this Sunday afternoon!


 

 I am glad you are still enjoying them.
 Didn't know you had the Zana Deux


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> I am glad you are still enjoying them.
> Didn't know you had the Zana Deux


 
  
 You are the best of the best.
  
 My sister came to visit me from Hawaii and when she saw your amps she said, "It is Frankenstein's laboratory!"


----------



## gibosi

gibosi said:


> There appear to be two variants of the High Wycombe tube, one fat and the other thin, and the thin one is priced about the same as the Blackburn. Can anyone comment on how the fat and thin ones compare to each other and to the Blackburn in a Glenn OTL? And I guess the real question is, if the Blackburn and the thin High Wycombe can be had for about the same price, which is the better buy?


 
  
 Well, I picked up a skinny Cossor 53KU and it does indeed appear to be a Mullard. However, at least in this case, it is not a Mullard GZ37 as we had surmised... The Phiips code for a GZ37 is "IS". The code on this tube is "rS" which translates to a GZ33.
  
 An easy way to distinguish them from pictures: the Mullard GZ33 has silvering on the glass between the second and third micas, while the Mullard GZ37 has a clear top.
  
 An interesting find. 
  

  

  
 Edit: Changed GZ34 to GZ33


----------



## Oskari

rS is GZ33 here, though. Both GZ33 and GZ37 may appear as CV378. I don't think GZ34s of this shape exist.
  
 Edit: … and a nice shape it is.


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> rS is GZ33 here, though. Both GZ33 and GZ37 may appear as CV378. I don't think GZ34s of this shape exist.
> 
> Edit: … and a nice shape it is.


 
  
 Yeah, I think you are correct. 
  
 http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf
  
 on page 12:
  
 rS = GZ33, CV378 and GZ34 made in Eindhoven.
  
 As this was made in Blackburn, this is likely a GZ33.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm with Oskari on this one, GZ34 in this shape?


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi, Glenn:
  
 Do you know if damage was done?
  
 I took my Decware CSP2+ out of storage. You modified this preamp in 2011. The amp had all of its tubes in place except for the rectifier. I intended to put one in after I set up the amp. I plugged in the amp but didn't realize that the on/off switch was already on and the amp powered up without the rectifier. I shut it off a minute later when I discovered that it was on.
  
 The amp sounds fine but wondered if I damaged anything internally.
  
 Here are the photos (taken in Dec. of 2011).


----------



## punit

Had a mini meet today with few local Head Fi'ers. lukeap69 & obesecatfish  really liked Glenn's OTL. Guys if you could post some impression about this amp would be great .


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Hi, Glenn:
> 
> Do you know if damage was done?
> 
> ...


 

 No worry
 Without the rectifier nothing in the amp will get any power.
 So it was just dead without the rectifier no damage.


----------



## lukeap69

punit said:


> Had a mini meet today with few local Head Fi'ers. lukeap69 & obesecatfish  really liked Glenn's OTL. Guys if you could post some impression about this amp would be great .




Many thanks Punit for giving me the chance to experience the Glenn's OTL amp magic on my HD800! If you remember, this is the first one that I've selected to try even though you have a batallion of TOTL amps in your 'showroom'. The first time I tried it I understood easily why so many are raving about Glenn's amps. With the HD800, the soundstage is holographic, instrument separation and placement stood out, treble is well controlled but what specially impressed me is how hard the bass hit and the drums kick! Sounds so lifelike and natural! With this combo, I can loose myself with the music and just enjoy it. Your other amps are excellent too and you know how I enjoyed Master 9 as well which is very similar with my Rag.

P.S. Still drooling with your HE-6! So sweet sounding headphones!

Cheers


----------



## punit

Thanks lukeap69. Just for info, the tubes used were - CBS 5AW4 + GEC 6AS7G + Telefunken 33S30


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> punit said:
> 
> 
> > Had a mini meet today with few local Head Fi'ers. lukeap69 & obesecatfish  really liked Glenn's OTL. Guys if you could post some impression about this amp would be great .
> ...


 
  Thanks for sharing your experience....this gets me even more excited to get mine.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks again for posting.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> lukeap69 said:
> 
> 
> > punit said:
> ...


 

 Thanks for showing my amp I am glad people enjoyed it.
  
 Glenn


----------



## gibosi

I think many, including me, have assumed that all C3G were manufactured by Siemens. However, a picture of a Lorenz and a Siemens, both unsheathed, posted in the Little Dot tube rolling forum, suggests that there might have been at least one other manufacturer:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/9180#post_11350547


----------



## Clayton SF

Taking it easy this Sunday morning. Listening to Glenn's creations.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Wonderful place with a lof of treasures


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Wonderful place with a lof of treasures


 
  
 Thanks, U!
  
 Come for a visit, then you can go on a treasure hunt!


----------



## whirlwind

ultrainferno said:


> Wonderful place with a lof of treasures


 
 Yeah, no kidding....+1000


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Come for a visit, then you can go on a treasure hunt!


 
  
 HAPPY BIRTHDAY CLAYTON!!
  

  
 You're the treasure...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Happy Birthday C. Late, I know


----------



## gibosi

Another eagle has landed. A Glenn OTL that can use either a pair of C3gs or an SN7 as drivers.


----------



## MIKELAP

gibosi said:


> Another eagle has landed. A Glenn OTL that can use either a pair of C3gs or an SN7 as drivers.


 
 Finally ! enjoy my friend of course youll let us know how it sounds .


----------



## snapple10

^ nice !!!
Bring back good memories . Been really happy with my T1 /HD650 and my Glenn OTL
Happy Listening !!!


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> Another eagle has landed. A Glenn OTL that can use either a pair of C3gs or an SN7 as drivers.


 
  
 Teaser. Photos. More.


----------



## gibosi

In its new home amongst a bunch of tubes. 
  
  

  
 With the Sylvania 3DG4 and Ken-Rad 1633 that Glenn gave me along with a pair of Chatham 6AS7Gs.
  
  

  
 And of course, it sounds great!


----------



## Eee Pee

Nice Ken, congrats!


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> In its new home amongst a bunch of tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow!
  
 What a thing of beauty ......I think this means....I am next


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > In its new home amongst a bunch of tubes.
> ...


 

 Your chassis is on order it should be here in the next couple of weeks.
 Will start as soon as I get it. You will have to see if Ken likes the C3g mod.


----------



## whirlwind

> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the update, Glenn.....I can't wait .....I will be in touch with Ken....thanks again.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Really nice guys. If only I had room for another amp. I have been doing a lot of portable gear in 2014. I hope to get back to desktop gear in 2015

The GR super 8 is still on my list. (but I have a long list )


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Really nice guys. If only I had room for another amp. I have been doing a lot of portable gear in 2014. I hope to get back to desktop gear in 2015
> 
> The GR super 8 is still on my list. (but I have a long list
> 
> ...


 
 6BL7s driven by a C3g should be the best sound


----------



## Clayton SF

I used to be at the front of the _GlennAmpTrain_.
 Now I am the caboose! At least I have a lantern hanging off the back.


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> I used to be at the front of the _GlennAmpTrain_.
> Now I am the caboose! At least I have a lantern hanging off the back.


 

 Only Stavros has more of my amps then you have.


----------



## punit

gibosi said:


> And of course, it sounds great!


 
  
 Very Nice. If you like the HD 700, wait till you hear the HD 800 on these.


----------



## punit

Please do post your impressions of the 6sn7 vs C3g driver. Very curious if the C3g  sounds "better".


----------



## lukeap69

I thought this is what the Elise followers are wishing for - to use C3G. I just assume it is very good. Once I have sorted out my DAC illusion, I will seek one of the magic amps of Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

punit said:


> Please do post your impressions of the 6sn7 vs C3g driver. Very curious if the C3g  sounds "better".


 

 This is this first OTL that I made that has the capability to use C3g for drivers.
 And it can do a A-B with 6SN7s.
 I do use the C3g as the driver in all my 300B amps.


----------



## Xcalibur255

punit said:


> Please do post your impressions of the 6sn7 vs C3g driver. Very curious if the C3g  sounds "better".


 

 My anticipation would be for it to sound less bloomy and more neutral.  It will make the coloration of the 6AS7 downstream more obvious. 
  
 Everything else sounds colored, even some SS stuff after getting used to the sound of C3g + 45.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> My anticipation would be for it to sound less bloomy and more neutral.  It will make the coloration of the 6AS7 downstream more obvious.
> 
> Everything else sounds colored, even some SS stuff after getting used to the sound of C3g + 45.


 
  
 I will have to defer to others on this matter. I am more of a tinkerer / tube collector than an audiophile. Further, my old ears are no longer all that good with a bit of tinnitus and unable to hear much of anything above 10kz. In the end, for me, it comes down to synergy. The tubes that are "best" are those that make my HD700s sound "best". Thus, "more neutral" is not all that important to me....
  
 Earlier, I was listening to Leslie Feist through a Telefunken 6463 and it sounded terrific. Some of you might remember that Komuro uses this tube as the initial driver in his 212E monoblocks. To date, I have found only three versions of this tube, Heerlen-made Philips, GE and Telefunken. I don't know which of these three Komuro uses, but to my ears, the Telefunken is the best.
  
 Also, I have also been listening to a US-made Philips E182CC and it too sounds terrific. I have no idea how close Glenn's OTL comes to correctly biasing these tubes, but I can say that based on the few minutes I have spent with these, I intend to get better acquainted with both of them over the weekend.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I agree with you gibosi.  Very often what sounds best to me is also not necessarily neutral.  The loss of some tube bloom may be perceived as a bad thing by some listeners, this is what I was hinting at by my C3g comments.  For example if a person was in love with the sound of a metal base Sylvania 6SN7W they may find the C3g sound a bit clinical for their tastes.  Purely from a resolution standpoint it's better than any 6SN7 I have heard (and I've had the good fortune to hear most ofl the good ones by now) but people listen for all kinds of things besides resolution.  I think this is why the C3g works so well with the 300B the way Glenn uses it, one tube is very neutral and the other very romantic and the combination hits a sweet spot in the middle for many people.


----------



## gibosi

I think your comments are spot on. I have had my Glenn OTL for about 24 hours and rolled only 4 tubes so far. There are many more tubes to roll.  But for sure, transitioning from the Ken-Rad 1633 to the C3gs, the increase in resolution was very noticeable. That said, I didn't notice a significant difference in resolution going from the C3g to the 6463 and E182CC. Will definitely keep this notion of "resolution versus bloom" in mind as I roll back and forth between the C3gs and other tubes.


----------



## Ultrainferno

There's a 596 for sale on ebay
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151608606803
  
 Just a quick heads up


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> There's a 596 for sale on ebay
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151608606803
> 
> Just a quick heads up


 
 It did not last long....


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> There's a 596 for sale on ebay
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151608606803
> 
> Just a quick heads up


 

  Wow. They've dropped in price (thank goodness). Weren't they up in the $500s at some point in time?
  
 Thanks for the birthday wishes. A colleague took me out to dinner after a long day at work.


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> Please do post your impressions of the 6sn7 vs C3g driver. Very curious if the C3g  sounds "better".


 
  
 I am also very much interested to know this.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> punit said:
> 
> 
> > Please do post your impressions of the 6sn7 vs C3g driver. Very curious if the C3g  sounds "better".
> ...


 

 There is nothing more neutral then a C3g > 45 to bad the 45 doesn't have more power it does sound better then a 300B


----------



## gibosi

punit said:


> Please do post your impressions of the 6sn7 vs C3g driver. Very curious if the C3g  sounds "better".


 
  
 I think Xcalibur255 and Glenn have summed this up very well: The C3g is more neutral and has better resolution than any 6SN7. That said, "sounds better" is in the ears and mind of the listener. Further, it is very dependent on the other tubes in the amp and the other gear in the audio system. 
  
 I have had this amp for only a couple days now and very deliberately decided to begin with a fairly modest rectifier/output tube combination: Sylvania 3DG4 and Chatham 6AS7G. Personally while the C3g's resolution is better, I am preferring the tone and color of the Sylvania small-bottle 6SN7W. In terms of resolution, I find the C3g to be very comparable to the better premium 9-pin double triodes, such as E182CC/7119 and the 6463. And of these, I prefer the tone and color of the US-made E182CC to the C3g.
  
 That said, my current rectifier / output tube combination may not be a good match for the C3g. I currently have GZ32, GZ33, GZ37 and 5AW4 to try. Further, I have a couple 7236, a bunch of European and American 6080, several pairs of 5998 and a pair of GEC 6AS7G. A colleague has found the GEC / C3g combination to be especially magical, both in his modded Little Dot MKIV and Elise, so I am very eager to give this combination a try.
  
 But for now, I wish to continue to progress slowly and methodically through a few more drivers with the current configuration to allow myself to become comfortable with the sound of the amp as it stands now, a "base configuration" if you will. And then I will begin to roll through rectifiers and output tubes. If I try to do this quickly, it won't be fun, so again, I intend to plod along at a rather slow and leisurely pace. Once I have had some time to sort through the various rectifier / output tube combinations with the C3g, I will come back here with more observations.
  
 I can say that my Glenn OTL is everything I hoped it would be... and more. And to anyone who would like to roll C3gs plus SN7s or other medium-mu double triodes in one 6AS7-based OTL, this is the amp for you.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> punit said:
> 
> 
> > Please do post your impressions of the 6sn7 vs C3g driver. Very curious if the C3g  sounds "better".
> ...


 
 Nuff said......thanks a million


----------



## gibosi

If someone is looking for a pair of C3g, this listing might be a good deal:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261797955911?


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> There is nothing more neutral then a C3g > 45 to bad the 45 doesn't have more power it does sound better then a 300B


 
  
 The limited range of headphones it drives well has been an ongoing concern for me, I must admit.  I'm not sure exactly how high a Z load the amp will drive properly, I know 600 ohms sounds very bad on it, but am I locked out of the HD800 for example at 250 ohms?
  
 It definitely takes all the "cream and pudding" out of the LCD-2 that's for sure, a pretty amazing feat for any tube amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> I have had this amp for only a couple days now and very deliberately decided to begin with a fairly modest rectifier/output tube combination: Sylvania 3DG4 and Chatham 6AS7G.


 
  
 Nothing modest about the 3DG4 IMO.    It's the rectifier the amp's power supply was designed around (in terms of anticipated voltage drop).  I believe the diode switching noise is lower too because the tube was designed for television service.  Lower switching noise improves low level resolution.
  
 I haven't pulled the 3DG4 out of my OTL in a very long time now.  They get to be rather ugly looking tubes after being run for a while, the inside of the glass gets quite dark.


----------



## john57

xcalibur255 said:


> Nothing modest about the 3DG4 IMO.    It's the rectifier the amp's power supply was designed around (in terms of anticipated voltage drop).  I believe the diode switching noise is lower too because the tube was designed for television service.  Lower switching noise improves low level resolution.
> 
> I haven't pulled the 3DG4 out of my OTL in a very long time now.  They get to be rather ugly looking tubes after being run for a while, the inside of the glass gets quite dark.


 
 yep, the 3DG4 does get quite a bit of carbon build up but keeps on kicking.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> Nothing modest about the 3DG4 IMO.    It's the rectifier the amp's power supply was designed around (in terms of anticipated voltage drop).  I believe the diode switching noise is lower too because the tube was designed for television service.  Lower switching noise improves low level resolution.
> 
> I haven't pulled the 3DG4 out of my OTL in a very long time now.  They get to be rather ugly looking tubes after being run for a while, the inside of the glass gets quite dark.


 
  
 I have never owned an amp with tube rectification and thus have no real idea what to expect from rolling these tubes. But it certainly would be nice if the 3DG4 ends up being one of my favorites. Powerful, quiet and cheap is a great combination.
  
 And I have seen some of these on eBay with very dark glass and I just thought it might be a dark getter splash. lol


----------



## punit

Below is a list of the tube combinations that i have managed to roll so far on Glenn's OTL with some very brief comments on the sound. This is a copy & paste from my tube rolling notes with HD 800  (I have also used T1 for some combos & this is mentioned in the notes).  BTW I listen mainly to psychedelic trance & some rock. My method of tube rolling is change Driver first, Power tubes second, Rectifiers last .For example I will keep (5AW4 + WE 421A) constant & roll through all the drivers. Then I will keep (5AW4 + GEC 6AS7G) constant & roll through all the drivers & so on. Once I have finished all the possible Power & driver combinations with a Rec, then I will move on to the next Rec. I should be finished rolling through most of the Power & driver combos for 5AW4 by next month. It took me 6 months to roll through all my power & driver tubes with one rec (as I also listen to other HP's & amps & sometimes a tube combo is so good I will enjoy the music for days without rolling), I have 10 more rec's so should take at least 4 years to roll through all the combinations. I will keep updating this document once in a while.
  
 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iLG2asMEdWfgGiXJGsWM86QzNCsIRFv4pA8aCLiXdXw/edit?usp=sharing
  
 My tube inventory is mentioned in my profile.


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks for that. punit


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing modest about the 3DG4 IMO.    It's the rectifier the amp's power supply was designed around (in terms of anticipated voltage drop).  I believe the diode switching noise is lower too because the tube was designed for television service.  Lower switching noise improves low level resolution.
> ...


 

 If they have very dark glass don't buy them they are used with many hours on them.
 Pulls from old Zenith TVs.
 Even though they will work why buy a used tube with many hours on it when there are plenty of new ones to be had.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> I have never owned an amp with tube rectification and thus have no real idea what to expect from rolling these tubes. But it certainly would be nice if the 3DG4 ends up being one of my favorites. Powerful, quiet and cheap is a great combination.
> 
> And I have seen some of these on eBay with very dark glass and I just thought it might be a dark getter splash. lol


 
  
 Glenn's amp is very transparent to tube rolling, hopefully you will enjoy experimenting.  You can make the amp more dynamic or more laid back to a very noticeable degree by changing rectifiers. 
  
 A quick primer if you are new to tube power supplies.  Feel free to skip if I'm telling you stuff you already know.  The rectifier is part of the amp's power supply and coverts AC to DC.  This electrical signal is the one that actually carries the audio information and this is passed onto the other tubes in the amp so they can do their respective jobs.  When a rectifier tube is put under load, they all "drop" a small amount of voltage relative to their ideal rating they are supposed to be outputting.  How much depends upon each type of tube, some tubes have more voltage "drop" than others.  This has the effect of changing the voltage applied to the plates of the driver and output tubes, producing different operating points and altering the character of the sound.  The rectifier has no sound of its own, but it can alter the sound of the other tubes.  For example if you switch the 3DG4 out for a 5U4G you are probably going to down about 20 volts.  Tubes tend to sound a bit less dynamic and more romantic when they are driven less aggressively.  So if you have a preference for one or the other you can tune the amp this way, somewhat independent of the coloration or particular tonal qualities of the other tubes.  That's the primary basis for rolling rectifiers in a nutshell.
  
 As for the 3DG4, you can buy them for a dollar.  I have lots of them..... I'd be happy to send you a couple if you want extras.  A single tube will probably last 10 years in the amp so a few good ones are a lifetime supply.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> ...............For example if you switch the 3DG4 out for a 5U4G you are probably going to down about 20 volts.  Tubes tend to sound a bit less dynamic and more romantic when they are driven less aggressively.  So if you have a preference for one or the other you can tune the amp this way, somewhat independent of the coloration or particular tonal qualities of the other tubes.  That's the primary basis for rolling rectifiers in a nutshell.
> 
> As for the 3DG4, you can buy them for a dollar.  I have lots of them..... I'd be happy to send you a couple if you want extras.  A single tube will probably last 10 years in the amp so a few good ones are a lifetime supply.


 
  
 Thanks for the very clear explanation of how rectifiers "change" the sound of an amp. With the 3DG4 and Chatham 6AS7, I have noticed a slightly "in your face" aggressiveness. It all makes more sense now.
  
 And after reading Punit's comment above that it might take him several years to roll through all possible combinations, I realized that this could be true for me as well, so I decided to focus on the C3g and try the rectifier / output combination I was the most curious about: GEC 6AS7 / GZ32. Would these tubes live up to their reputation and more importantly, would they play well together and with the C3g?
  
 Rolling the GEC and C3g in with the 3DG4, the presentation seemed quite strong and edgy, maybe too much so, so then I rolled in the GZ32. This sounds very, very good, less edgy and more open, I think. However, everything is still very new so will listen to this combo for a few days.
  
 I should note that the GZ32 is not powerful enough to be on Glenn's recommended list. However, another Glenn OTL owner has been using one for over 6 months in his amp. My take on this is that before I switch to the 5998 mode, I need to take the GZ32 out, box it up and put it on the shelf. But as long as I keep the amp in the 6AS7 mode. it should be OK... I hope.  
  

  
 Edit: Glenn gave me a brand new Sylvania 3DG4, with side getters and a tall clear top. Do the other versions, some with top getters, some with shorter bottles, etc, sound different?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I thought the 3 getter version of the 3DG4 (side and top) was just a tad better, not anything worth going out of your way for one but the difference is there to my ears.  I can't really explain why either outside of perhaps a bit of natural tube to tube variation.  The 3 getters are a lot less common.
  
 On the subject of 5998 mode, I think it would be good to confirm with Glenn what I'm about to say because he may do it differently now.  My amp was the first to have this mod, an idea I thought of after doing some research on how the 5998 behaves in a 6AS7 amp.  If the mod is still the same as what was done in my time, then technically even with the switch in 5998 mode as long as you are using a 5998 tube your current draw from the rectifier is actually lower than what a 6AS7 draws so your GZ32 would still be safe.  But.  That's assuming the mod hasn't changed.  They might be running more current now since the 5998 can handle it (theoretically anyway, it seems hard to find genuinely good 5998 tubes in my experience).
  
 Lastly I can't comment on the GZ32 since I haven't tried one myself.  I tend to find the more laid back sounding setups a bit lacking in transparency so I didn't play around with them as much.  I have a hunch you might like the 5AW4 though.  It's really an under the radar tube, mostly because the higher heater current draw makes it incompatible with amps like the Woos.  I think I was the first one here to try one, and the only reason I bought it was because it had such unique looking plates I had to see one in person.  They give the amp a somewhat unique sound but I know a couple of people here quite like it.  The 5AU4 is another one worth trying if you can find one of the big fat bottle types with the big plates.  A good combination with very bloomy sounding output tubes like the RCA 6AS7.


----------



## 2359glenn

You are right Tyrell the 5998 draws less current. Even in 5998 mode and yes the 5998 mode is still the same as in your older amp
 But if you use a 6336 and switch to 5998 mode for low impedance output the current goes way up.
 Also the Russian 6H13 can be put into 5998 mode and the current goes up. Also to drive lower impedance phones
 This version of the 6AS7 can handle the higher current and I like the 6H13 one of the quieter 6AS7s.
 I just figured if someone gets used to using the 5998 mode with a GZ32 sooner or later it will be in there
 with the wrong output tubes. Then no more GZ32.
  
 Ultra blew up 2 GZ32s in one of my 300B amps.
 Add it up each 300B 70ma each C3g 20ma so it adds up to 180ma  2X500v 125 ma max for the GZ32 the OTL is not running these high
 voltages but still the GZ32 still scares me.
  
 I thought the 3DG4 I told him to get was the 3 getter version maybe I seen it wrong.
 This is the best one and most are labeled Zenith.


----------



## gibosi

Thanks guys!
  
 I do not use low-Z cans, so I doubt I will want to use 6336 or 6H13 in 5998 mode. However, it is great to know that I can roll 5998 with the GZ32, I am curious to compare them directly with the GEC using the same driver and rectifier combinations.
  
 And thanks for the rectifier recommendations. I already have a 5AW4, but have yet to try it. The 5AU4 are cheap, so expect to pick up a few, plus will look for a 3-getter version of the 3DG4. Further, I have Mullard GZ33 and GZ37 and am curious as to how these compare to the Mullard GZ32.
  
 Too many tubes... Not enough time..... lol 
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Ultra blew up 2 GZ32s in one of my 300B amps.
> Add it up each 300B 70ma each C3g 20ma so it adds up to 180ma  2X500v 125 ma max for the GZ32 the OTL is not running these high
> voltages but still the GZ32 still scares me.


 
  
 I sure did. Those were two 5Z4G/GZ32 indeed


----------



## gibosi

As best I can tell, a 5Z4G and a GZ32 are not the same. The 5Z4G has a maximum rating of 125ma at 350v, whereas, the GZ32 is 125ma at 500v. There appears to be a lot of confusion out there with many eBay vendors representing them as being the same. While the GZ32 is safe to use in a Glenn OTL (with some limitations), I am quite sure that the 5ZAG is not. The American designation for GZ32 is 5AQ4. However, it appears that all of them were manufactured by Mullard, so the American 5AQ4 are in fact rebrands.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I sure did. Those were two 5Z4G/GZ32 indeed


 
  
 I remember that.
  
 My 5U4G sparks on one of my mono blocks when I first turn it on. Does that mean it is on its way out? Everything sounds great even after the spark-up.


----------



## john57

I think that I would not be using a tube that sparks even during turn on.


----------



## Neogeo333

Is it a spark or a flash?   Some of my 12at7 like Siemens flashes when turned on.


----------



## punit

Yeah, so do some of my NOS 12AX7's & 12AU7's. They flash every time I turn on the amp, work perfectly.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> I do not use low-Z cans, so I doubt I will want to use 6336 or 6H13 in 5998 mode. However, it is great to know that I can roll 5998 with the GZ32, I am curious to compare them directly with the GEC using the same driver and rectifier combinations.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The GZ37/GZ33 (very nearly the same tube) is well liked by Glenn amp owners except for me.  I didn't care for what I heard when I had mine and sold it, but I'm in the minority on that one.  It's very possible I just didn't give it enough of a chance too.
  
 Just as an aside, the 5998 itself is a very good solution for low Z headphones, it gives the amp a lower output impedance than a 6080/6AS7 does.  Since the newer amps have quieter power transformers the 5998 should be even better since you won't have the hum issues I have.


----------



## Xcalibur255

clayton sf said:


> I remember that.
> 
> My 5U4G sparks on one of my mono blocks when I first turn it on. Does that mean it is on its way out? Everything sounds great even after the spark-up.


 
  
 Possibly too much inrush current?  If that's the case the tube will live a significantly shortened life overall.
  
 If you see a shower of sparks from the base then yank that thing out of there because it's shorting.  This is what damaged my 45 amp right after it was born.


----------



## No_One411

clayton sf said:


> I remember that.
> 
> My 5U4G sparks on one of my mono blocks when I first turn it on. Does that mean it is on its way out? Everything sounds great even after the spark-up.


 
 I've seen tubes flash on cold start-up, which concerned me a lot. My research on Google tells me that this is fairly normal for when the plates first heat up.


----------



## Xcalibur255

no_one411 said:


> I've seen tubes flash on cold start-up, which concerned me a lot. My research on Google tells me that this is fairly normal for when the plates first heat up.


 

 For some tubes it can be, but it's not normal for rectifiers outside of a few special exceptions is my understanding.  It usually means the tube is getting current too fast on startup which is hard on it.


----------



## Clayton SF

xcalibur255 said:


> For some tubes it can be, but it's not normal for rectifiers outside of a few special exceptions is my understanding.  It usually means the tube is getting current too fast on startup which is hard on it.


 
  
 Glenn, there are two fuses on the back of each of your mono blocks. Will these protect your amps from bad rectifiers if they decide to nuke themselves?


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Glenn, there are two fuses on the back of each of your mono blocks. Will these protect your amps from bad rectifiers if they decide to nuke themselves?


 
  
 They sure did with my experiments


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> They sure did with my experiments


 
  
 Good to know that I can now safely power up my amp.
 Does your Glenn Amp have 2 fuses as well?


----------



## Ultrainferno

No it has just one. I was thinking of putting my 300B back in my living room, I just have to find a way to learn my cat not to touch the hot tubes


----------



## No_One411

Glenn, is it possible to do something crazy like driving the 6BL7s with the C3gs, or would you run into issues with chassis space?


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> No it has just one. I was thinking of putting my 300B back in my living room, I just have to find a way to learn my cat not to touch the hot tubes


 
  
 Oh, she'll learn on her own after touching it the first time. j/k
  
 You might have to place your amp in a very large, square animal cage.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> Just as an aside, the 5998 itself is a very good solution for low Z headphones, it gives the amp a lower output impedance than a 6080/6AS7 does.  Since the newer amps have quieter power transformers the 5998 should be even better since you won't have the hum issues I have.


 
  
 I have three pairs of 5998, with manufacture dates of 1958, 1961 and 1968, and all of them have what I consider to be an unacceptable level of hum. Perhaps it is just the way they are....  It's a shame as I quite like their sound....  Will pick one pair, scrape and clean the pins and see if they will quiet down after 20 or 30 hours....


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > For some tubes it can be, but it's not normal for rectifiers outside of a few special exceptions is my understanding.  It usually means the tube is getting current too fast on startup which is hard on it.
> ...


 
 Clayton
 One of them is the power supply fuse and will blow if the rectifier shorts the other one is B+ fuse for the 300B.
 That one will blow if the 300B goes bad or loses bias voltage it is a much lower amperage then the power supply fuse.
 If your 5U4 is flashing on turn on I would think about putting a new one in there. It's life is getting shortened every time it flashes.


----------



## 2359glenn

no_one411 said:


> Glenn, is it possible to do something crazy like driving the 6BL7s with the C3gs, or would you run into issues with chassis space?


 

 I can do that but would probably leave out the SN7 socket.
 That should be a great sounding amp the 6BL7 sounds better then a 6AS7 but you will still be able to
 use two 6AS7s in place of the six 6BL7s .


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Is it a spark or a flash?   Some of my 12at7 like Siemens flashes when turned on.


 

 This is normal for 12AX7  12AU7 and 12AT7 made in Europe it is the filament that is not coated that heats up faster then the rest
 This happens at the bottom of the tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

punit said:


> Yeah, so do some of my NOS 12AX7's & 12AU7's. They flash every time I turn on the amp, work perfectly.


 

 Normal for these rubes if they were made in Europe.
 It is at the bottom of the tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, there are two fuses on the back of each of your mono blocks. Will these protect your amps from bad rectifiers if they decide to nuke themselves?
> ...


 

 The fuse saved your power transformer from burning up.
 Maybe it would have blown all the internal connections off the inside of the tube before damaging the power transformer but the fuse worked first!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> I have three pairs of 5998, with manufacture dates of 1958, 1961 and 1968, and all of them have what I consider to be an unacceptable level of hum. Perhaps it is just the way they are....  It's a shame as I quite like their sound....  Will pick one pair, scrape and clean the pins and see if they will quiet down after 20 or 30 hours....


 
  
 In my case the hum is caused by the higher amplification factor of the 5998 (5 vs only 2 for a 6AS7) raising the noise floor of the amp enough that hum from the power transformers magnetic field is always present.  Maybe this is still the case in the newer builds if you are hearing it in all of your tubes.
  
 The transformer Glenn uses is much beefier than what you see in most amps, probably twice as much so.  This is why we can use all the lesser known rectifiers that pull more than 3 amps of heater current and can use the current hungry 6336 tube.  With the 5998 more than doubling the gain of the amp it brings out this hum that is normally inaudible.  A small drawback that is outweighed by the superior performance of the tube IMO.  Unless the phones are very sensitive the hum should be slight, if it's a loud hum then maybe you have bad 5998 tubes which are extremely microphonic due to poor mechanical damping.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> The fuse saved your power transformer from burning up.
> Maybe it would have blown all the internal connections off the inside of the tube before damaging the power transformer but the fuse worked first!!!


 
  
 And I am glad it did 
  
 I have a bunch of 5998/2399 tubes, no hum at all in my OTLs


----------



## whirlwind

What is a nice set of 6080 tubes that works well in Glenns OTL.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I don't have the Glenn OTL but the 6080WB graphite always sound good in my other OTLs
 6080WA with copper rods are really nice sounding too and can be gotten or really cheap


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks to the Glenn and Ultrainferno for making my Friday morning a most enjoyable start to the weekend!
  
_Glenn's 6F8G > 6SN7 adapters and a couple of Chatham 2399 tubes from Ultra._


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Thanks to the Glenn and Ultrainferno for making my Friday morning a most enjoyable start to the weekend!
> 
> _Glenn's 6F8G > 6SN7 adapters and a couple of Chatham 2399 tubes from Ultra._


 
  
 Gorgeous C, as usual.
 Man, I have sold so many of those tubes, and I never use them myself. But only you got matched ones, Clayton (if I remember correctly)


----------



## longbowbbs

What a great way to start a Friday Morning!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Gorgeous C, as usual. Man, I have sold so many of those tubes, and I never use them myself. But only you got matched ones, Clayton (if I remember correctly)


 
 Your memory serves you well. They are closely matched in manufactured date too. Made the week of 12 April and 17 February 1947. They give the amp a higher gain and a little bit bright but it works with a lot of music. I'm easy. Have a great weekend!
  


longbowbbs said:


> What a great way to start a Friday Morning!


 
 Yes! Have a great weekend with your wonderful family and keep warm.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Have a nice weekend guys, I'm happy!


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> What is a nice set of 6080 tubes that works well in Glenns OTL.


 

 I would suggest the Chatham 6AS7G copper rod version over just about any 6080 tube.  It depends alot on which headphones you want to drive too of course.


----------



## Neogeo333

xcalibur255 said:


> I would suggest the Chatham 6AS7G copper rod version over just about any 6080 tube.  It depends alot on which headphones you want to drive too of course.


 
 +1
  
 Of my stash of  6as7 the Chatham/Tung Sol are best. Only the GEC are better.  But never used them since all my cans are low Z so the 6336 are always in my OTL.


----------



## whirlwind

xcalibur255 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > What is a nice set of 6080 tubes that works well in Glenns OTL.
> ...


 
  
 I will be using the Senn HD 800 as my headphone


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> The transformer Glenn uses is much beefier than what you see in most amps, probably twice as much so.  This is why we can use all the lesser known rectifiers that pull more than 3 amps of heater current and can use the current hungry 6336 tube.  With the 5998 more than doubling the gain of the amp it brings out this hum that is normally inaudible.  A small drawback that is outweighed by the superior performance of the tube IMO.  Unless the phones are very sensitive the hum should be slight, if it's a loud hum then maybe you have bad 5998 tubes which are extremely microphonic due to poor mechanical damping.


 
  
 Following up on your comment about microphonics, checked each of them and managed to find two that are pretty quiet. Much better. But it does seem that I have 5 of these tubes I can't use...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Yeah the 5998 is a very "picked over" tube now.  The prices they sell for are absurd considering how questionable the stock being sold is.  I thought they were absurd when I was paying $150 for my pairs just a couple of years ago and I was able to get tubes that were actually NOS.  Didn't stop one of them from shorting and blowing up my AKG K701s though.......


----------



## gibosi

I have read somewhere that the 7236, with an amplification factor of 4.8 and transconductance of 12,500, is more similar to a 5998 than it is to a 6080. If so, does this tube also benefit from being run in the 5998 mode?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm going to defer to Glenn's superior knowledge on this one.
  
 The internal resistance is probably different so it will draw different current than a 5998 will under the same conditions.  Speaking strictly in terms of ratings I believe the tube can handle more current but there are a couple of different facets to how that's determined.  I think it's probably fine but my knowledge is limited so take me with a grain of salt.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> I'm going to defer to Glenn's superior knowledge on this one.
> 
> The internal resistance is probably different so it will draw different current than a 5998 will under the same conditions.  Speaking strictly in terms of ratings I believe the tube can handle more current but there are a couple of different facets to how that's determined.  I think it's probably fine but my knowledge is limited so take me with a grain of salt.


 
  


xcalibur255 said:


> I'm going to defer to Glenn's superior knowledge on this one.
> 
> The internal resistance is probably different so it will draw different current than a 5998 will under the same conditions.  Speaking strictly in terms of ratings I believe the tube can handle more current but there are a couple of different facets to how that's determined.  I think it's probably fine but my knowledge is limited so take me with a grain of salt.


 

 I don't know without doing some math that I am not going to do right now.
 Dinner is cooking
 In my first OTL I tried a Sylvania 7236 and did not like them they were run as
 a 6AS7 so I sold them. They were pretty tubes so I was able to sell them
 for what I paid. Never tried one again.


----------



## punit

gibosi said:


> I have read somewhere that the 7236, with an amplification factor of 4.8 and transconductance of 12,500, is more similar to a 5998 than it is to a 6080. If so, does this tube also benefit from being run in the 5998 mode?


 

 Sorry, this maybe a dumb answer but why don't you run them in both modes & see which sounds better. It is my experience that if a setting is not optimal for a tube it will not sound good or will sound less better.


----------



## gibosi

Yes, in the end, my ears will decide. Still, I would like to know if the calculations suggest that the 5998 setting is optimal. And further, I want to know if the current draw increases as this will determine if the GZ32 stays in the amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

punit said:


> Sorry, this maybe a dumb answer but why don't you run them in both modes & see which sounds better. It is my experience that if a setting is not optimal for a tube it will not sound good or will sound less better.


 

 The primary issue isn't whether or not it sounds good, but whether or not the 7236 is okay to operate at the higher current level.  There's a possibility of running the tube over its ratings and dramatically shortening its usable lifespan.  6080 type tubes also tend to........ behave badly in some cases when pushed hard, revealing shorts and other nasties that stay hidden when run more conservatively.  This is the main reason why Woo and others run them conservatively, it cuts down on customers complaining of weird behavior but it also results in inferior sonic performance.


----------



## gibosi

A couple of the "pin-guides", or whatever they are called, are a bit loose in one of the 6AS7 sockets. It does make it a bit more difficult to pull out tubes, but otherwise, perhaps it is not a serious problem? However, I am wondering if there is a way to tighten these so that they don't pull out like this?


----------



## john57

For me I tend to like ceramic sockets better and less likely to have loose pins in my experience. Plastic could get a bit soft when working with warm tubes before complete cool down.


----------



## jc9394

I have been very busy at work lately and have no time listening at home and moved Glenn's amp to my office today.  Now either I'm rocking with Glenn's amp or on crappy headset on WebEx.


----------



## gibosi

gibosi said:


> A couple of the "pin-guides", or whatever they are called, are a bit loose in one of the 6AS7 sockets. It does make it a bit more difficult to pull out tubes, but otherwise, perhaps it is not a serious problem? However, I am wondering if there is a way to tighten these so that they don't pull out like this?


 
  
 For those who might be curious, I followed Glenn's instructions below and the socket is now fine. 
  
 "The pins you can take the bottom off and with the pin down in place just bend it a little
 away from center. I usually do this must have forgotten it is safe after a few minutes
 there is bleeder resistors to discharge the filter capacitors."


----------



## gibosi

Received a new rectifier today, a three getter 3DG4, plugged it in, turned the amp on, left the room for a few minutes, and when I returned, the amp was dead!  Blown fuse.... So I guess this rectifier was DOA....  
  
 As best as I can make out, the fuse-type is F4AL250V, about 20mm by 5mm, a miniature I assume. Obviously I need another one or two. Any suggestions where I might find one locally here in the US? Checked RadioShack and Autozone websites, and nothing....


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Received a new rectifier today, a three getter 3DG4, plugged it in, turned the amp on, left the room for a few minutes, and when I returned, the amp was dead!  Blown fuse.... So I guess this rectifier was DOA....
> 
> As best as I can make out, the fuse-type is F4AL250V, about 20mm by 5mm, a miniature I assume. Obviously I need another one or two. Any suggestions where I might find one locally here in the US? Checked RadioShack and Autozone websites, and nothing....


 
  
 Are these the ones.....if so you may also find these at a store that sells auto parts.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-OF-5-F4-AL-250V-F4AL250V-4A-5MM-x-20MM-FUSES-/151536629763?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2348497803


----------



## gibosi

Yes, I believe they are. But I am hoping I can find them locally as I don't want to wait. There are a couple auto parts stores and a Micro Center close by. Will check them out tomorrow.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Received a new rectifier today, a three getter 3DG4, plugged it in, turned the amp on, left the room for a few minutes, and when I returned, the amp was dead!  Blown fuse.... So I guess this rectifier was DOA....
> ...


 

 Looks like you got a shorted tube that is the right one .  Radio Shack doesn't have one? you can also use a T3.15 amp fuse
 yours is a T4  amp T stands for time delay or slow blow.
 You probably got a tube that was used to death in a TV.
 I can send you one if you want? but cant do it until Monday
 Glenn


----------



## 2359glenn

You should be able to find one these are common fuses.
 They are not automotive fuses I can even get them at the local ACE hardware.


----------



## gibosi

I am quite sure the fuse I have is F4AL 250V, which is fast blow?  It should be a slow blow? If so, I will try to find some T4.
  
 I don't see these on Radio Shack's web site. However, I do see some of the longer ones, 1¼X¼ inch, but I think these are too long to fit into the fuse holder. But as long as I am out and about tomorrow, will check the closest Radio Shack and an ACE hardware as well.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Pretty sure I got my replacements from Radio Shack when I blew the fuse in my OTL.


----------



## Xcalibur255

So having some fresh talk in here inspired me to tube roll with the OTL a little bit again.  I decided to go for something random just for the heck of it and I'll be darned if it doesn't sound really good.  Marconi Osram B65 + Chatham 6080W + Tung Sol 3DG4 outputting to my 600 ohm Beyer DT880s.  I find the Beyers to have this skeletal sound in nearly everything I try them on, but there is something really unique going on in this combo.  It's kind of flat sounding with light bass and dynamic punch but there is so much transparency into the inner details of the notes that it gives the music a unique sense of body that is quite satisfying somehow.  Huge, airy soundstage and great resolution with a slightly sweet midrange focused sound that's smooth and inviting.  I've really never liked 6080s in general but maybe I just didn't give them enough of a chance or find the right supporting cast.  I kept these Chathams because they are visually cool looking tubes and aren't worth dirt to resell, now I'm glad I held onto them.  Got an all metal base thing going on except for the rectifier.
  
 I think I'll leave this tube combo in a while.  Only downside is the heat.  I had forgotten how darn hot the OTL gets running 6080 tubes.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Oskari

2359glenn said:


> you can also use a T3.15 amp fuse
> yours is a T4  amp T stands for time delay or slow blow.


 
  


gibosi said:


> I am quite sure the fuse I have is F4AL 250V, which is fast blow?  It should be a slow blow? If so, I will try to find some T4.


 
  
 I wonder if Glenn actually meant that either F4 or T3.15 is fine.


----------



## 2359glenn

oskari said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > you can also use a T3.15 amp fuse
> ...


 

 Yes I normally supply a 3.15 amp slow blow to handle the surge of magnetizing current of the large transformer.
 But a 4 amp is fine also a 4 amp fast blow might blow quicker then a 3.15 amp slow blow.
 I don't want the fuse to blow for no reason during the start surge only if a bad tube gets put in the amp.
 And there is plenty of bad tubes being sold on E-Bay.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I have been very busy at work lately and have no time listening at home and moved Glenn's amp to my office today.  Now either I'm rocking with Glenn's amp or on crappy headset on WebEx.


 
 Seems you're doin' a lot better than me. My entire rig has been sitting in storage since October due to lack of space. Hope to roll it out by May/June.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Seems you're doin' a lot better than me. My entire rig has been sitting in storage since October due to lack of space. Hope to roll it out by May/June.




nice, your amps need some tlc.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Clayton SF

moatsart said:


> OK, I'm in. Have just submitted my order for an OTL with 5998 switch, 6.3/12.6/25.2 switch and Goldpoint. Now for the wait.
> 
> Posting on this thread feels like a bit of an intrusion. It seems that the interactions here are between people with long standing friendships that extend beyond Headfi. If you would rather me post my Glenn related enthusiasm and questions somewhere else, perhaps you could point me in the direction of another thread.
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome, Nathan. All friendships have beginnings. It's good to be introduced to new friends to hopefully become old friends as well.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Clayton SF

moatsart said:


> Thanks for your kind welcome, Clayton.  I must say I am quite excited at the moment. Hope I don't explode before June.  It will be a long wait.


 

 We've all experienced that. I remember counting down and crossing off the dates on the calendar until release day (like I was in prison) and saying to myself "This is not helping one iota."


----------



## Eee Pee

Hahah, that's like watching water come to a boil.  Best to try and forget, then the days slip by and next thing you know, it'll be June.


----------



## JoelT

moatsart said:


> Thanks for your kind welcome, Clayton.  I must say I am quite excited at the moment. Hope I don't explode before June.  It will be a long wait.


 
 Welcome to the waiting line! I'm there with you at the moment. June's what Glenn indicated? That's not so bad actually.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## No_One411

moatsart said:


> I have put a link to a "count down" for my OTL in my signature.  Assuming a delivery of 30 June, I will always know how far away my amp will be.


 
 Welcome to the club! I'm also on the list for one of Glenn's OTLs.
  
 The wait won't be easy, but I have absolutely no doubts that it'll be worth it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm pretty sure we can have one more. Just accept that over half our posts are about food 
 Welcome!


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Ultrainferno

moatsart said:


> It's a good thing I have one hundred days to wait for my amp.  It will give me time to digest the 11,000 posts.  That's a lot of courses.


 

  Wait till you get to the party boat posts


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## whirlwind

ultrainferno said:


> moatsart said:
> 
> 
> > It's a good thing I have one hundred days to wait for my amp.  It will give me time to digest the 11,000 posts.  That's a lot of courses.
> ...


 
 OK.....I need to go through this whole thread again.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Congrats MoatsArt.....I know how you feel with your excitement.
  
 I do not have my amp yet, but I am currently buying some tubes, so I will be ready when it does.
  
 The people in this thread are very nice and very helpful....and Glenn has been especially helpful to me when I ask questions.


----------



## rosgr63

moatsart said:


> OK, I'm in. Have just submitted my order for an OTL with 5998 switch, 6.3/12.6/25.2 switch and Goldpoint. Now for the wait.
> 
> Posting on this thread feels like a bit of an intrusion. It seems that the interactions here are between people with long standing friendships that extend beyond Headfi. If you would rather me post my Glenn related enthusiasm and questions somewhere else, perhaps you could point me in the direction of another thread.
> 
> ...


 

 Hello Nathan,
  
 You are most welcome.
  
 Be aware some of us ........*.(read ME)*.........are nuts.
 I hope you have a good sense of humour!


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## rosgr63

Hello there,
  
 The tubes don't have to be matched.
  
 I can use up to 4X6AS7's or 2X6336's or 8X6SN7's or 6X6BL7's and 6/12/25V driver tubes with my GR Super 10.
  
 I have an OTL amp Glenn built for me that can run 2X6AS7's or 2X5998's and has the 5998 mod.
  
 I can run low impedance Grado's with the 6336's or mid/high impedance cans with the other combinations.
  
 I'll let Glenn advise you on the caps etc.
  
 I hope this info helps.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## rosgr63

The GR Super 10 is a special build, Glenn offers a similar one check this review:
  
 http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/42754587-building-a-reference-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier
  
 I have never run my GR Super 10 with 5998's yet.
  
 The amps that have the 5998 mod can run them at their optimum.
 I don't know many amps, apart from Glenn's that have this.
  
*Rule: *Amanda is right. Tubes can be very evil and addictive, you have been warned.


----------



## rosgr63

I forgot to mention they can be seductive too................
  
 Good Luck
  
 If there is any consolation I have a lot of speed bumps on my head from my *Very* understanding girlfriend hitting me whenever a tube box arrived.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I nowadays have the tubes arrive at my work address Stavros


----------



## rosgr63

I tried that too Lieven, but I can't fool the boss at home..............
  
 I blamed Glenn a few times but I can't get away with it all the time.


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> I tried that too Lieven, but I can't fool the boss at home..............
> 
> I blamed Glenn a few times but I can't get away with it all the time.


 
 Sneaky fellows.....


----------



## rosgr63

Sneaky devils perhaps?


----------



## wotts

I lucked out on that...my girlfriend lives about an hour away. It makes it easier to sneak new gear in. Although, I had to give her some credit: she was able to see the SX-1980 was substantially larger than the 1250 when I swapped them.


----------



## punit

I have arrived at a truce with my wife; an amp can come in only if another one goes out.  I manage to smuggle in tubes by using my work address.


----------



## Ultrainferno

punit said:


> I have arrived at a truce with my wife; an amp can come in only if another one goes out.  I manage to smuggle in tubes by using my work address.


 
  
 I made a new deal with my girlfriend. Half of my spending money goes to Audio and the other half goes in the marriage budget. So the more I spend, the bigger her wedding can be


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> punit said:
> 
> 
> > I have arrived at a truce with my wife; an amp can come in only if another one goes out.  I manage to smuggle in tubes by using my work address.
> ...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Hahahaha. We're not there just yet, Eric


----------



## longbowbbs

I am just balancing things out for your tube collection....


----------



## rosgr63

punit said:


> I have arrived at a truce with my wife; an amp can come in only if another one goes out.  I manage to smuggle in tubes by using my work address.


 
  
 The truce usually doesn't last long.
  
 I wonder who will win at the end........................


----------



## MIKELAP

Well i just read all your post and i guess i could consider myself a very lucky man because she is all for my tubes and tube amp hobby like they say live and let live but im shure she his wondering why i need so many amps.Theres only one thing though last weekend bought myself an other  amp i go to pick it up at  the sellers house  the  guy brings the amp to my car the wife's pops the trunk open SACRILEGE i tought this baby is riding with me lol i looked at the guy not saying a word he new what had just happened lol it was a  funny moment .


----------



## Xcalibur255

Looks like some of the liveliness has returned around here.  I can go back to my corner now.


----------



## whirlwind

My wife asked me what I was going to do with my Mad Ear+HD, once that I got my amp from Glenn.
  
 I said, "well, I was thinking that I might keep it"
  
 She really did not say anything....but she did shake her head and roll her eyes.
  
 Maybe I will just sell it, and buy tubes


----------



## No_One411

Should I just take it as a blessing that I currently do not have a significant other? 
  
 I can't say that I've had any experience with explaining/purchases to anyone. 
  
 We all have our hobbies. Perhaps you just need to treat her to something nice every once in a while to let her know how much you still care.


----------



## rosgr63

xcalibur255 said:


> Looks like some of the liveliness has returned around here.  I can go back to my corner now.


 
  
  
 Don't you dare Mr
  


whirlwind said:


> My wife asked me what I was going to do with my Mad Ear+HD, once that I got my amp from Glenn.
> 
> I said, "well, I was thinking that I might keep it"
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 The silent treatment for now...........it'll get worst you just wait.
  


no_one411 said:


> Should I just take it as a blessing that I currently do not have a significant other?
> 
> I can't say that I've had any experience with explaining/purchases to anyone.
> 
> We all have our hobbies. Perhaps you just need to treat her to something nice every once in a while to let her know how much you still care.


 
  
  
 If she would appreciate tubes it would be no problem treating her some very nice ones, but no such luck


----------



## Ultrainferno

When I came home today I told my girlfriend I bought new tubes". Sometimes I do tell her. She said: "again?". I said: "yes but only 2". "Why did you need new tubes?" she asked. "Cause I didnt have those yet" I replied. She looked at me and rolled her eyes. I could see her think "men will always be kids". She then said: I will pic them up on wednesday.

Now that's love


----------



## gibosi

I used to get this from my wife, but not anymore. The last time she asked. Why so many tubes? I asked her in return, Why so many shoes? And while she was thinking about how to answer, I then pointed out that storing tubes take much less space than shoes. Further, I can sell most of my tubes for at least what I paid, and often more. And by the way, what's the market for used women's shoes like?


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## whirlwind

The mail man dropped these off today.....I hope he can keep on a nice schedule of delivering at my house before the wife gets off work  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Glenn recommended me this 5AW4


----------



## Silent One

News you can use!

When some of your purchases are in the books, so are her results from Image Search. (-:


----------



## whirlwind

silent one said:


> News you can use!
> 
> When some of your purchases are in the books, so are her results from Image Search. (-:


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I tried that too Lieven, but I can't fool the boss at home..............
> 
> I blamed Glenn a few times but I can't get away with it all the time.


 

 What Stavros you blamed all those tubes on me.
 What do I say when I come to visit??????


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> rosgr63 said:
> 
> 
> > I tried that too Lieven, but I can't fool the boss at home..............
> ...


 
 Try "More Baklava please?"


----------



## Neogeo333

I bet none of you lucky guys been anything like what happened to me.  My better half threw away a box full of type 83 and 811a tubes last summer when she visited.  I just came to find out the other day when looking for some 12sn7.  Called her and she said that the box looked old and thought it was a good idea to clean up the place a little.   Bye bye to 6 type 83 and 6 811a.  Thank god all the 300b and c3g are at another place out of her reach waiting for Glenn new creation.


----------



## wotts

No_One - I like your avatar!


----------



## parbaked

longbowbbs said:


> Try "More Baklava please?"


 
 No...it's Cheese Pies!


----------



## Ultrainferno

neogeo333 said:


> I bet none of you lucky guys been anything like what happened to me.  My better half threw away a box full of type 83 and 811a tubes last summer when she visited.  I just came to find out the other day when looking for some 12sn7.  Called her and she said that the box looked old and thought it was a good idea to clean up the place a little.   Bye bye to 6 type 83 and 6 811a.  Thank god all the 300b and c3g are at another place out of her reach waiting for Glenn new creation.


 
  
 Oh my. Bet she didn't get any shoes from you after that


----------



## Ultrainferno

mcandmar said:


> Just added a 75C1 Gas Regulator to a build and i cant help but sit and stare into it, its as mesmerizing as a cosy fire place


 
  
 This deserves a repost


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> What Stavros you blamed all those tubes on me.
> What do I say when I come to visit??????


 
  
 Sorry Glenn............
  
 She likes you and Lucy too much to say anything.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Neogeo333

ultrainferno said:


> Oh my. Bet she didn't get any shoes from you after that


 
 No shoes, but a car.   She still dishes some complaints about buying more tubes but then a new car will probably keep her happy for at least a year or two.


----------



## Ultrainferno

neogeo333 said:


> No shoes, but a car.   She still dishes some complaints about buying more tubes but then a new car will probably keep her happy for at least a year or two.


 
  
 Make her sign a document


----------



## Neogeo333

moatsart said:


> Can the 6528A be used in the OTL? Anyone tried? Results?


 
 Tried it.   Gave me about the same sound as my other 6336.  Make sure your amp is capable of running them.   Those 6528 and 6336 are power hungry.


----------



## Neogeo333

ultrainferno said:


> Make her sign a document


 
 What kind of document?   I think I'm too late for a prenup.


----------



## rosgr63

neogeo333 said:


> No shoes, but a car.   She still dishes some complaints about buying more tubes but then a new car will probably keep her happy for at least a year or two.


 

 Clever move George.
  
 If it was me I would still be crying loosing all these nice tubes.


----------



## Skylab

moatsart said:


> Can the 6528A be used in the OTL? Anyone tried? Results?




Personal opinion - it's a crappy sounding tube, across the board. Stick with the 6336.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## rosgr63

Nathan ask Glenn for Llundal transformers which are a step up, but they cost a lot more.
 A lot will depend on your tube choice regarding sensitive headphones the 6336 will be the best bet.
 I never tried my ATH W5000 yet with my tube amps they are hooked on a AT-HA5000 (Raffinato set) SS amp.
  
 I am very pleased with the audio transformers Glenn has used in my amps.
  
 Some pre-midnight thoughts for you.


----------



## punit

rosgr63 said:


> Nathan ask Glenn for Llundal transformers which are a step up, but they cost a lot more.


 
 I thought the Lundahl transformers were only available as an option for the 300B amp, you can get them for the OTL too ?


----------



## Xcalibur255

If Lundahl makes a power transformer capable of serving the OTL (has the proper taps and is rated for 10 amps), then it would absolutely be worth the extra money to use it in my opinion.  They have almost no magnetic field so it will lower the noise floor of the amp considerably.
  
 I'm not aware of any model of Lundahl tranny that has the proper ratings though.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## 2359glenn

I was going to ask Keven about this and if there is one I could use.
 They do have one with four 6.3 volt windings @ 3.1 amps if I parallel these it would have 6.3 @ 12.4 amps.
 This is enough for two 6336 and a BL63 and It's High voltage secondary is twice the current of the one I
 use now.
 Problem is the cost It costs me $250.00 just for the transformer plus the distributer is in North Carolina
 so I have to pay tax also.
 Would probably use Damper Diodes for rectifiers so there will be no more rectifier rolling.
 Hope to know in the next few days  Might do this for all future amps People will just have to pay the difference!!!!


----------



## MoatsArt

>


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I was going to ask Keven about this and if there is one I could use.
> They do have one with four 6.3 volt windings @ 3.1 amps if I parallel these it would have 6.3 @ 12.4 amps.
> This is enough for two 6336 and a BL63 and It's High voltage secondary is twice the current of the one I
> use now.
> ...


 
  
 I think this is one of of the two things that holds the OTL back a little bit.  The hum from the current power transformer does seem to take a bite out of very fine detail a bit.
  
 The other thing is the (necessary, I realize) electrolytic output coupling caps.  If there were a way to get rid of these, or replace them with something that is sonically transparent, then the OTL could stand toe to toe with any amp at any price in my opinion. 
  
 Of course it already can stand up against commercial amps that are way more expensive and sounds really really good as it is, I'm just say that these two small things are the only thing that keeps the whole package from being completely "end game" in terms of resolution and transparency.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> No_One - I like your avatar!


 
 Who doesn't like good Bass?!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I was going to ask Keven about this and if there is one I could use.
> They do have one with four 6.3 volt windings @ 3.1 amps if I parallel these it would have 6.3 @ 12.4 amps.
> This is enough for two 6336 and a BL63 and It's High voltage secondary is twice the current of the one I
> use now.
> ...


 
 Glenn....is it to late for me to have this transformer option ?


----------



## gibosi

Received a pair of Lorenz C3g today. Up until a recent posting in the Little Dot forum showing a picture of "naked" Lorenz and Siemens C3g, I had believed that all C3g were manufactured by Siemens regardless of the label.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/9180#post_11350547
  
 Even though they are still in their cans, the physical appearance certainly suggests that these might not have been manufactured by Siemens. On the other hand, all the Valvo and Telefunken I have seen appear to look identical to Siemens, which suggests that they are nothing more than rebrands.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Xcalibur255

moatsart said:


> I asked Glenn about the output caps a couple of days ago and the capacitance, in terms of output caps, is quite large. You would either need lots of caps wired in parallel, or physically huge single caps. Both expensive and massive.
> 
> Yet, if you were to reduce the value of these caps you would get bass roll off at higher frequencies: The lower the impedance of the headphones, the higher the frequency of roll off.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Correct.  This isn't unique to Glenn's amp, pretty much all OTL designs use electrolytic caps at the output stage for this reason.  You can't really get film caps in the necessary rating.  What I was getting at was more along the lines of seeking an alternative to using a capacitor all together.  Going direct coupled would probably be risky, but there must be other options if one gets creative.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Received a pair of Lorenz C3g today. Up until a recent posting in the Little Dot forum showing a picture of "naked" Lorenz and Siemens C3g, I had believed that all C3g were manufactured by Siemens regardless of the label.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/9180#post_11350547
> 
> Even though they are still in their cans, the physical appearance certainly suggests that these might not have been manufactured by Siemens. On the other hand, all the Valvo and Telefunken I have seen appear to look identical to Siemens, which suggests that they are nothing more than rebrands.


 
   
I guess that explains why I see higher prices on the Lorenz and why they are more rare.  To be honest it doesn't look like a superior tube to my eyes.  The mica are in contact with the glass due to those wing tabs, which will make the tube more prone to microphonics induced by mechanical vibration.  And the Siemens has a zirconium getter where as the Lorenz does not.  I know the Siemens tube uses gold wire for its control grid too.  It's hard to tell in the photo but it appears the Lorenz may not.

  
 The C3g was the pinnacle of tube engineering in some ways.  These tubes sold for more money back in their day than they do now.  Adjusted for inflation they were crazy expensive when they were relevant due to the exotic materials and construction techniques in them.


----------



## No_One411

whirlwind said:


> Glenn....is it to late for me to have this transformer option ?


 
 I think he's still waiting to hear back to see if it's compatible. 
  
 Now I really wanted the Lundahl trafos as well...


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I was going to ask Keven about this and if there is one I could use.
> They do have one with four 6.3 volt windings @ 3.1 amps if I parallel these it would have 6.3 @ 12.4 amps.
> This is enough for two 6336 and a BL63 and It's High voltage secondary is twice the current of the one I
> use now.
> ...


 
  
 I have three sets of 5998s and they are all too noisy using the 5998 setting.  With my ears and gear, the ground hum is simply too distracting to be able to even discern the alleged increase in SQ, much less appreciate and enjoy it. However, switching back to the 6AS7 setting, these tubes are much quieter. Although not quite as quiet as some of my 6080s, with open headphones, what hum there is blends in with the furnace fan and hum of the computer and is easy to ignore. So at least for me, trading off some SQ for increased quietness is better.
  
 My opinion is that if you are able to find a quieter, albeit more expensive transformer, that it be combined with the 5998 switch. That is, if a customer wants the 5998 switch, the cost of the quieter transformer should be included, the "5998 Option", if you will. That said, I understand that some are more tolerant of hum than I, so if a customer wants the switch without the transformer and understands the trade offs, so be it.
  
 On the other hand, for many customers price matters. And if a customer chooses not to purchase the "5998 Option", then I believe the current transformer is still a quality offering. After all, as Xcalibur255 notes, your OTL "already can stand up against commercial amps that are way more expensive and sounds really really good as it is."
  
 Anyway, just my two cents.


----------



## 2359glenn

I talked to the Lundahl rep today.
 I can use the Lundahl  LL1651 it's cost is $205.00 plus $55.00 for the large transformer  cover + North Carolina tax.
 Can look up the prices here and the large transformer cover is at the bottom of the page.
http://www.kandkaudio.com/prices/
 You can see that I an not making money on these.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Lundahl is not cheap and KnK Audio is the only US distributor.  Speaking from experience.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## 2359glenn

They are the best transformers though


----------



## 2359glenn

There will be no more rectifier rolling anymore no 5 volt or 3.3 volt rectifiers.
 I will be using TV damper diode tubes 42EC4 or SS rectifiers.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> There will be no more rectifier rolling anymore no 5 volt or 3.3 volt rectifiers.
> I will be using TV damper diode tubes 42EC4 or SS rectifiers.


 
 Glenn....will my amp be this way


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > There will be no more rectifier rolling anymore no 5 volt or 3.3 volt rectifiers.
> ...


 

 It could be I already have your transformer but you can go Lundahl if you want to pay
 the extra $300


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > 2359glenn said:
> ...


 
 pm coming your way!


----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn said:


> They are the best transformers though


 
  
 Agree.  Going with Lundahl and you won't regret....


----------



## 2359glenn

I am thinking of doing a redesign concentrating on a total black background
 It seems that is most important of all things hearing nothing. 
 Running tube heaters on DC.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> I guess that explains why I see higher prices on the Lorenz and why they are more rare.  To be honest it doesn't look like a superior tube to my eyes.  The mica are in contact with the glass due to those wing tabs, which will make the tube more prone to microphonics induced by mechanical vibration.  And the Siemens has a zirconium getter where as the Lorenz does not.  I know the Siemens tube uses gold wire for its control grid too.  It's hard to tell in the photo but it appears the Lorenz may not.
> 
> The C3g was the pinnacle of tube engineering in some ways.  These tubes sold for more money back in their day than they do now.  Adjusted for inflation they were crazy expensive when they were relevant due to the exotic materials and construction techniques in them.


 
  
 Fortunately, I managed to get these for $20 each, and at that price, felt that they were certainly worth trying. In terms of construction, the Lorenz may not be as good as the Siemens, but after about 10 hours, I hear no indications that they are microphonic. Mine are very quiet.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Fortunately, I managed to get these for $20 each, and at that price, felt that they were certainly worth trying. In terms of construction, the Lorenz may not be as good as the Siemens, but after about 10 hours, I hear no indications that they are microphonic. Mine are very quiet.


 
  
 Not necessarily audible microphonics, but one of the reasons why tubes vary a little bit from one to another is because of variations in their mechanical damping.  This is why people say some TS BGRP are "more magical" than others because of the tensioning of the mica supports varying.  The implication is that the Lorenz might be a bit less resolving, but I'm kind of just floating this as theory here and definitely not asserting it as fact.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I am thinking of doing a redesign concentrating on a total black background
> It seems that is most important of all things hearing nothing.
> Running tube heaters on DC.


 
  
 Sorry, Glenn.  I didn't realize I would start something with my comment.  I know how you feel about people expecting tube gear to be 100% silent all the time.  To clarify my own position it's not presence of the background hum itself that I consider bad, the slight hum in my OTL doesn't bother me when no music is playing.  But that hum negatively impacts the amps ability resolve very fine/small details in the music, sort of how you can't see fine details on your TV when there is static so I believe it's a noble cause to try and get that noise floor down as much as possible. 
  
 But I'm obsessed with transparency, some people aren't as analytical as I am about this.  It also erodes the value proposition of the amp by raising the price a lot in order to achieve a small gain in return.  I feel I should really stress this point to everybody who is having an amp built right now.  So hopefully with this post I'm balancing both sides of the situation a little bit better in terms of perspective.


----------



## rosgr63

The spacing of the elements within a tube affect the sound characteristics amongst other factors.


----------



## rosgr63

My thoughts on the Llundahl transformers for OTL I mentioned earlier on as a possible upgrade.
  
 However good they are I don't think one can achieve 100% dark background unless circuit dampening is used as well.
  
 The quality of the tubes is critical no mater what.
 By quality I don't necessarily mean one needs to spend a lot to get quality tubes.
  
 High Frequency AC may also be an alternative for the heater supply.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> Not necessarily audible microphonics, but one of the reasons why tubes vary a little bit from one to another is because of variations in their mechanical damping.  This is why people say some TS BGRP are "more magical" than others because of the tensioning of the mica supports varying.  The implication is that the Lorenz might be a bit less resolving, but I'm kind of just floating this as theory here and definitely not asserting it as fact.


 
  
 In casual listening while the Lorenz are burning in, they sound very good to me. After I get some more hours on them, I will A/B them with the Siemens to see how they compare. And I hope that others, with more discerning ears than mine, will also pick up a pair of these, so we can all better understand whether the Lorenz and Siemens are equal, but just slightly different. Or if one is actually better, that is more resolving, than the other.


----------



## Xcalibur255

moatsart said:


> I don't belong here, do I?


 
  
 Sure you do.  I feel like an outsider too but I still say what I want to say.  You should feel free to do the same, that's why we come here.


----------



## parbaked

xcalibur255 said:


> ...that's why we come here.


 
 I come for the pizza but there hasn't been enough of that lately.
 To compensate Clayton and I have been eating burgers and drinking 16oz pomegranate mimosas...but only on the weekends!


----------



## 2359glenn

moatsart said:


> I don't belong here, do I?
> 
> Will continue to follow the thread with interest, but not post.  Will continue to communicate about my amp directly with Glenn via PM.  It will be the best amp I have ever owned and the centrepiece of my audio gear.
> 
> Sorry.


 

 Sure you belong here this is one of the most open and friendly threads on head fi .
 Hell it might be more about food then audio


----------



## parbaked

moatsart said:


> I don't belong here, do I? !
> 
> Will continue to follow the thread with interest, but not post.  Will continue to communicate about my amp directly with Glenn via PM.  It will be the best amp I have ever owned and the centrepiece of my audio gear.
> 
> Sorry.


 
 Every one's welcome in the studio.
 We're just not allowed to post inappropriate pics anymore...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 

 unless the pics include food!


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I am thinking of doing a redesign concentrating on a total black background
> ...


 

 If the price of the basic amp goes from $650 to $1000 so be it for a improvement to solve complaints.
 I really make very little money doing this I just enjoy making amps. But if I start getting complaints about little
 things it takes the enjoyment out of it and there is no point in doing it.
 So it is worth it to me to do this use the better transformer and run the heaters on DC.
 This might make some of the options to be eliminated due to space. To do DC filaments it will take large capacitors
 and a large choke taking up space. To use a larger chassis made by Landfall will add another $150 so I
 don't want to do that.
 The next amp will have a Lundahl transformer in place of the Heybore I will try with AC heaters at first if there is still a slight hum
 I will go to DC.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> The next amp will have a Lundahl transformer in place of the Heybore I will try with AC heaters at first if there is still a slight hum
> I will go to DC.


 
 Hi Glenn,
 Clayton and I have done extensive testing.
 We determined that the only hum we hear after the first mimosa (or tequila) is coming from Clayton. He does that when he likes the sound!
 You should build the amps that make you happy...whatever that is.


----------



## dminches

I have never had an issue with noise or hum in any of my Glenn amps.  And, frankly, if I wanted a completed black background I would just use a solid state amp.  Tube amps are never 100% quiet but that adds to their charm.  My Glenn 300B amp is the best headphone amp I have ever heard.


----------



## gibosi

I wish to state that I am very, very happy with my new Glenn C3g/SN7 OTL. My only disappointment is that I do not have any 5998s that are quiet enough to take advantage of the enhanced 5998 setting. That said, my 5998s sound very good in the 6AS7 mode. And I suspect that they wouldn't sound any better in comparable amps as they all run 5998s in the 6AS7 mode as well. Further, it's not like the 5998 is the only tube worth running. There are a number of other very good 6AS7/6080 tubes out there. Currently, I am running a Mullard GZ32, GEC 6080 and Lorenz and Siemens C3gs, and grinning ear-to-ear. 
  
 I don't think I could be happier.... And I think I am very, very lucky to have it.


----------



## Eee Pee

You are Ken.  And I look forward to hearing it, and put it up against the Vali and Mjolnir.


----------



## gibosi

eee pee said:


> You are Ken.  And I look forward to hearing it, and put it up against the Vali and Mjolnir.


 
  
 Now that winter is finally breaking, I hope we can set up a mini-meet soon.


----------



## Eee Pee

Any time, my friend.  Literally.


----------



## whirlwind

I would never expect a tube amp to have a completely black background, if I wanted that I would go the SS route.....but I do not want SS....I like the tube sound too much.
  
 I only read the talk of the Lundahl transformer here on this thread  and asked Glenn if my amp would take that option, he told me it could if I wanted it...so I said, what the heck....less transformer hum sure sounds like a good thing to me, even at the expense of not having a rectifier tube to roll.
  
 There are still plenty of other tubes to roll in this amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 If it is not an option, I am fine with that also....just want a great sounding amp with my HD800 and one that I can have a little fun rolling tubes with  and I am sure what ever Glenn makes will be outstanding
  
 I have wanted one of Glenn's OTL amps for about a year now, ever since I first laid my eyes on his amazing work, and heard others talk about how great that they sound
  
 I will feel very honored and proud to have one of Glenn's  amps to listen to, and I am very excited, knowing that i will get to listen to one in the not so distant future.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## punit

eee pee said:


> You are Ken.  And I look forward to hearing it, and put it up against the Vali and Mjolnir.




Done that, with HD 800 & T1 its no competition.


----------



## rosgr63

moatsart said:


> I don't belong here, do I?
> 
> Will continue to follow the thread with interest, but not post.  Will continue to communicate about my amp directly with Glenn via PM.  It will be the best amp I have ever owned and the centrepiece of my audio gear.
> 
> Sorry.


 
  

 You are part of our International group, one of the best and friendliest you'll find.
  
 Of course you belong here, some of us *(ME) *are crazy, but we mean well.
  
 We openly discuss our thoughts for the better.
  


xcalibur255 said:


> Sure you do.  I feel like an outsider too but I still say what I want to say.  You should feel free to do the same, that's why we come here.


 
  
 Agree 100%
  


parbaked said:


> Every one's welcome in the studio.
> We're just not allowed to post inappropriate pics anymore...
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Steven, does this mean me and George can no longer post photos of the international pole dancing competitions?
 Am I banned?
  
*David I agree 100% with you!*


----------



## dminches

gibosi said:


> I wish to state that I am very, very happy with my new Glenn C3g/SN7 OTL. My only disappointment is that I do not have any 5998s that are quiet enough to take advantage of the enhanced 5998 setting. That said, my 5998s sound very good in the 6AS7 mode. And I suspect that they wouldn't sound any better in comparable amps as they all run 5998s in the 6AS7 mode as well. Further, it's not like the 5998 is the only tube worth running. There are a number of other very good 6AS7/6080 tubes out there. Currently, I am running a Mullard GZ32, GEC 6080 and Lorenz and Siemens C3gs, and grinning ear-to-ear.
> 
> I don't think I could be happier.... And I think I am very, very lucky to have it.


 
  
 You should try a GEC 6AS7G.  That's what sounds best in my Glenn OTL.


----------



## MIKELAP

dminches said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > I wish to state that I am very, very happy with my new Glenn C3g/SN7 OTL. My only disappointment is that I do not have any 5998s that are quiet enough to take advantage of the enhanced 5998 setting. That said, my 5998s sound very good in the 6AS7 mode. And I suspect that they wouldn't sound any better in comparable amps as they all run 5998s in the 6AS7 mode as well. Further, it's not like the 5998 is the only tube worth running. There are a number of other very good 6AS7/6080 tubes out there. Currently, I am running a Mullard GZ32, GEC 6080 and Lorenz and Siemens C3gs, and grinning ear-to-ear.
> ...


 
 How would you compare the GEC 6AS7G to the TS 5998


----------



## dminches

mikelap said:


> How would you compare the GEC 6AS7G to the TS 5998


 
  
 It is quieter and more detailed.


----------



## gibosi

In fact, I did try the GEC 6AS7 with the Siemens C3g and found it to be a phenomenal combination. However, given the very high cost of these tubes, and the fact that I have only the one pair, I find myself quite reluctant to use them on a daily basis. To my ears, the GEC 6080s provide a very satisfying compromise between affordability and performance.
  
 Edit: Oh, and may I ask what rectifier you are using?


----------



## dminches

RK-41 or GZ37.


----------



## gibosi

dminches said:


> RK-41 or GZ37.


 
  
 Thanks! I have both a GZ33 and a GZ37. Comparing these to the GZ32 is on my to-do list, which seems to be getting longer and longer... lol


----------



## Neogeo333

I don't know what's more painful,  the moment the stone is moving through the gallbladder duct or the fact you can't eat fatty foods.   The two nights I've been in hospital the thought of loosing pizza, pork chops, and other fatty foods it's more painful than stone moving.   Hopefully I will be out in a couple of days.   Given that I sort out the insurance because I don't have one.


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Hi Glenn,
> Clayton and I have done extensive testing.
> We determined that the only hum we hear after the first mimosa (or tequila) is coming from Clayton. He does that when he likes the sound!
> You should build the amps that make you happy...whatever that is.


 

 Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Listening to The Sermon! --Jimmy Smith. Courtesy of parbaked. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


----------



## rosgr63

neogeo333 said:


> I don't know what's more painful,  the moment the stone is moving through the gallbladder duct or the fact you can't eat fatty foods.   The two nights I've been in hospital the thought of loosing pizza, pork chops, and other fatty foods it's more painful than stone moving.   Hopefully I will be out in a couple of days.   Given that I sort out the insurance because I don't have one.


 

 Get well soon George.
  
 What are the nurses like?


----------



## Neogeo333

The only nurse worth a look is the dietitian.   Biggest hip I've seen in a while.   Very pretty.   Thanks for the kind words Stavros.   The worst has pass or in my case just started.   I hate diet as much as the pain.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> I don't know what's more painful,  the moment the stone is moving through the gallbladder duct or the fact you can't eat fatty foods.   The two nights I've been in hospital the thought of loosing pizza, pork chops, and other fatty foods it's more painful than stone moving.   Hopefully I will be out in a couple of days.   Given that I sort out the insurance because I don't have one.


 

 I know what you are going through George Get well soon and get out of there.
 I was in the hospital for 7 weeks talk about going crazy.
 You were told you can't eat these fatty foods ever again?  That is worse then them telling me I have stage 4 cancer.
 I can still eat tasty things.
 In all that time I only had a couple of good looking nurses.  There was a couple of lookers in ICU but I was out of it then.
 Are you in NY or PR?
 I hope they aren't asking what is the pain level in a scale of 1 to 10.  If they asked me that again I was going to kill someone.
 Just give me the drugs!!!!!
  
 Get well
 Glenn


----------



## Neogeo333

Luckily I'm still in PR.   Otherwise the constant yapping of the wife because I eat too much fatty foods will be unbearable.   We know this will not work well.   The temptations of succulent roast pig and bacon it's too much.   Thanks all for words of encouragement,  hopefully I'm out by Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Luckily I'm still in PR.   Otherwise the constant yapping of the wife because I eat too much fatty foods will be unbearable.   We know this will not work well.   The temptations of succulent roast pig and bacon it's too much.   Thanks all for words of encouragement,  hopefully I'm out by Monday or Tuesday.


 

 How are you going to move back to NY.
 NY is a food paradise you will be slipping when you go back.
 I am going to NY for Easter and can't Waite for the food. Will be bringing some back
 in a cooler on ice. Some good Pastrami.
 Me bad will shut up now.


----------



## Neogeo333

Does it mean your bringing my amp by then?   I'm leaving for NY at the end of April.   Can't wait to go to smorgasbord.


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Does it mean your bringing my amp by then?   I'm leaving for NY at the end of April.   Can't wait to go to smorgasbord.


 

 Smorgasbord you bad !!!!!!!!!!!!
 I will have the amp finished by then. Hope to get allot done tomorrow.
 Try to have a good night. They will probably wake you up to give you a sleeping pill.


----------



## Xcalibur255

dminches said:


> Tube amps are never 100% quiet


 
  
 My 45 amp is.  I didn't think it was possible either until I heard it for myself.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## punit

xcalibur255 said:


> My 45 amp is.  I didn't think it was possible either until I heard it for myself.


 

 Also my Bottle Head Mainline - SS silent


----------



## rosgr63

I believe David was referring to OTL amps not SET ones.
  
 Tyrell's 45 amp designed/built by Glenn and Punit's Bottlehead Mainline are based on SET designs with output transformers.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## 2359glenn

moatsart said:


> Can someone with the GR 8 version of Glenn's OTL please tell me the dimensions of the case?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Nathan


 

 320 mm Wide
 305 mm Deep
  70 mm High


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Hi Steven, does this mean me and George can no longer post photos of the international pole dancing competitions?
> Am I banned?


 
 Hi Stavros!
 Of course you and Glenn are the two that can never be banned.
 I am wondering what food you're serving at the pole dancing competition...I hope cheese pies!
 On a serious note I hope George is feeling better. 
 My first thought was that he should recover in Greece with a healthy diet of seafood and greens...no suffering there!


----------



## parbaked

This is where Clayton and I are going tonight...note the ALL day Happy Hour on Sundays!!


----------



## gibosi

I was able to do a quick comparison of the Siemens and Lorenz C3g this evening. But first, I should say that I do not have the ears nor the patience to carefully parse and articulate small and subtle differences between tubes. So what follows is just a quick impression from listening to a couple songs.
  
 Starting first with the Siemens and then the Lorenz, I caught myself reflexively reaching out to turn-up the volume with the Lorenz. The Siemens are definitely more forward and brighter. Otherwise, the tonality seems to be quite similar to me. I have always felt that the Siemens are somewhat brighter than my favorite double triodes, for example, the small-bottle Sylvania 6SN7W, and I am finding myself preferring the more subdued sound of the Lorenz.
  
 So, these two tubes do in fact sound different, which is certainly not surprising. After all, they were manufactured in different factories owned by different companies. Hope those of you who can use C3gs, or expect to use them in future, will find this useful. And I will leave it to others to perform more in-depth comparisons.
  
 Oh, I noticed that the guide-pin on the Lorenz is shaped somewhat differently than that of the Siemens. As a consequence, the Lorenz fits into the socket a bit more tightly, which makes it more difficult to extract it. Others have had these tubes crack when rolling and pulling them out of tight-fitting sockets, so I use a small flat-bladed screwdriver to get them started first. On the other hand, the Siemens pull out very easily.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi how many hours are on the Lorenz tubes?  C3g need more burn-in time than most tubes, it might be sounding a little muted at the top end because its new.
  
 Thanks for the comparison, it's helpful to know that there are perceivable differences between the two.


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> I come for the pizza but there hasn't been enough of that lately.
> To compensate Clayton and I have been eating burgers and drinking 16oz pomegranate mimosas...but only on the weekends!





I need to get my lazy ***** to SF soon.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> gibosi how many hours are on the Lorenz tubes?  C3g need more burn-in time than most tubes, it might be sounding a little muted at the top end because its new.
> 
> Thanks for the comparison, it's helpful to know that there are perceivable differences between the two.


 
  
 I have only 20 hours on them, so probably not completely burned-in...  After another 20 hours or so, will do this again.... But you say they need more burn-time than most tubes, so should I assume 100 hours? or more? On the other hand, I do not think I have 100 hours on the Siemens either... probably no more than 50 or 60....


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> This is where Clayton and I are going tonight...note the ALL day Happy Hour on Sundays!!




Oh, I know where this at, been there but never remembered how I got back to hotel.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Did someone say pole dance competition?


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> Hi Stavros!
> Of course you and Glenn are the two that can never be banned.
> I am wondering what food you're serving at the pole dancing competition...I hope cheese pies!
> On a serious note I hope George is feeling better.
> My first thought was that he should recover in Greece with a healthy diet of seafood and greens...no suffering there!


 
  
 What a great idea.
 George will visit me and I hope you M and Clayton will do so too.
  


moatsart said:


> Here you go:


 
  
 Thanks for the clarification Nathan.
 Some people misjudge what I say!!!!!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> Some people misjudge what I say!!!!!!!


 
  
 I wonder why...


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> I wonder why...


 

 And I thought you were my friend.............


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> I need to get my lazy ***** to SF soon.


 
 Yes please...we need an excuse for moar fun!!
  
 Clayton and I had Pizza Hacker last night after happy hour.
  
 "Top Shelf" Margherita which uses local Early Girl tomatoes instead of San Marzano

  
 "Heavy Nettle" Lamb Sausage, Nettles and Stracciatella


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> What a great idea.
> George will visit me and I hope you M and Clayton will do so too.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Stavros,
 M really wants to visit Greece...I'm saving up my pennies....
  
 I guess Nathan missed all the pics that got deleted from the Studio!





​


----------



## Clayton SF

We talked about everything: tubes, Greece, Belgium, turntables--red cartridges, black cartridges and of course how we can't stop thinking about the next SuperGlennAmp.
  
 However, after leaving Steven to go home, I found this in my pocket. Yum!


----------



## Neogeo333

Steven, those two pies look seriously tasty.   Soon,  soon enough.   Good news is I'm getting discharge tomorrow.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> I have only 20 hours on them, so probably not completely burned-in...  After another 20 hours or so, will do this again.... But you say they need more burn-time than most tubes, so should I assume 100 hours? or more? On the other hand, I do not think I have 100 hours on the Siemens either... probably no more than 50 or 60....


 
  
 50 should be enough for them to be awake.  Maybe some small changes happening still, but I'm sure it varies from tube to tube.  It takes about this many hours of operation for a truly new tube to reach full emission.  I think, if I understand the principle correctly, this is more true for the higher transconductance tubes.


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> Steven, those two pies look seriously tasty.   Soon,  soon enough.   Good news is I'm getting discharge tomorrow.


 
 That is good news George. Wish you a very speedy recovery!!
  
 We are lucky in SF to have a new movement of pizza makers using live yeast cultures - like bread makers.
 Each shop has it's own 'culture'  so a distinct crust. 
  
 http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog/2014/07/11/how-tartine-changed-san-francisco-pizza/
  
 I am fortunate that all three of these pizzerias are within a couple miles of my house!!


----------



## Neogeo333

Now I know who to call if I'm visiting SF.


----------



## rosgr63

George get those AVVT's warmed up..........
  
 I'll be at my best behaviour Steven.......well I'll try any way.


----------



## Neogeo333

Good news ahead Stavros.   Can't wait to go to NY.


----------



## jc9394

parbaked said:


> Yes please...we need an excuse for moar fun!!
> 
> Clayton and I had Pizza Hacker last night after happy hour.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Lamb sausage pizza?  Love lamb and pizza, perfect match made in heaven.
  
 EDIT, can't take this anymore.  Going to Lou Malnati's Pizzeria in couple hours.


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > I need to get my lazy ***** to SF soon.
> ...


 

 You guys are just teasing me before I go up to New York on Thursday Food Food Food.
 First I am getting some good Chinese. The Chinese in North Carolina is horrible Don't even know what it really is not food.
 If the driving goes good we could be at a Chinese restaurant by 3:00 to 4:00


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:
			
		

> My first thought was that he should recover in Greece with a healthy diet of seafood and greens...no suffering there!


 
 When I stayed with Stavros I had a healthy diet gained 15lbs in 10 days he will love it.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> You guys are just teasing me before I go up to New York on Thursday Food Food Food.
> First I am getting some good Chinese. The Chinese in North Carolina is horrible Don't even know what it really is not food.
> If the driving goes good we could be at a Chinese restaurant by 3:00 to 4:00


 
 Have a great trip Glenn.
 So much good stuff to eat in NY!!


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> Have a great trip Glenn.
> So much good stuff to eat in NY!!


 
 I know I used to live there


----------



## Ultrainferno

What's so special about these tubes?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/161649368020
  
 The VT-244 nomination? They're "just" 5U4G, no?


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> What's so special about these tubes?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/161649368020
> 
> The VT-244 nomination? They're "just" 5U4G, no?


 

 Nothing special just another 5U4G with the military nomination VT-244


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Nothing special just another 5U4G with the military nomination VT-244


 
  
 Thank you Glenn, they're way over paid then.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> When I stayed with Stavros I had a healthy diet gained 15lbs in 10 days he will love it.


 

 Thanks to you I got to eat some nice dishes that mama would not make for me................
  
 Nice photos Steven, I am perpetual hungry now I think about the pizza!!!!!


----------



## jc9394

jc9394 said:


> Lamb sausage pizza?  Love lamb and pizza, perfect match made in heaven.
> 
> EDIT, can't take this anymore.  Going to Lou Malnati's Pizzeria in couple hours.


 
  
  
 Decided something healthier than pizza, went with this instead.


----------



## Eee Pee

Judging by the size of the plastic dip cups, those are not small legs.


----------



## whirlwind

Look like king crab to me....yummy
  
 Have a nice trip, Glenn


----------



## Skylab

I know some of you Glenn amp heads are 6336 tube mongers. I just found ome in my stash. I thought I had sold them all. Just a single. PM me of interested, will sell below eBay rate.


----------



## jc9394

eee pee said:


> Judging by the size of the plastic dip cups, those are not small legs.







whirlwind said:


> Look like king crab to me....yummy
> 
> Have a nice trip, Glenn




Yes, it is a king crab legs from Bob Chinn's. A lilttle more healthier meal tonight, NOT


----------



## Neogeo333

jc9394 said:


> Yes, it is a king crab legs from Bob Chinn's. A lilttle more healthier meal tonight, NOT


 
 I would literary kill for a bite of that steak.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm doing another group buy for the Lafigaro 339 guys, this time its RCA branded, Tung-Sol made 6SJ7(wgt) tubes with the rare mesh plates.
 I have done the exact same one last year already
  

  

  
 5 pairs are already reserved for the new sale. A pair is 80€ (+shipping)
  
 Let me know if anyone wants a pair, I'll contact my seller in a few days.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I don't think they do, just don't want to let my Glenn friends out of the group buy


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I got my first pair of globe 45s for my amp.  Just got them in now.  I only listened for about 10 seconds to make sure I was getting sound in both channels.  In that 10 seconds my only impressions was that the bass was much more flabby and uncontrolled than I'm used to.  We will see what they sound like after cooking for a while.  One of them came on bias with a *lot* less current draw than the other one too, hopefully that sorts itself out in time otherwise they won't work well as a pair.


----------



## Neogeo333

xcalibur255 said:


> I got my first pair of globe 45s for my amp.  Just got them in now.  I only listened for about 10 seconds to make sure I was getting sound in both channels.  In that 10 seconds my only impressions was that the bass was much more flabby and uncontrolled than I'm used to.  We will see what they sound like after cooking for a while.  One of them came on bias with a *lot* less current draw than the other one too, hopefully that sorts itself out in time otherwise they won't work well as a pair.


 
 I got my ST glass 45 plenty but like Glenn once said the good ones are the globes.  I saw a few mesh type 45 but those are crazy expensives.


----------



## Xcalibur255

neogeo333 said:


> I got my ST glass 45 plenty but like Glenn once said the good ones are the globes.  I saw a few mesh type 45 but those are crazy expensives.


 

 Yeah I don't have any dreams of meshplate 45s.  These are KenRad UX245s.  I was pretty nervous buying them, I honestly feel like you are gambling with long odds buying these 80 year old tubes.  It's actually kind of hard to get good ones.  It's easy to get *working* ones but not necessarily good ones.  I'm crossing my fingers I didn't waste a bunch of money.  If I did them I'm not going to gamble on vintage tubes anymore and just get some EMLs.  I hear both good and bad about most EML tubes but every single person who has talked about their 45 seems to really like it.
  
 I wandered into the Eddie Current 4-45 thread hoping to find some juicy 45 tube rolling talk, but there is a surprising lack of it there.  And a seemingly general opinion that all 45s sound more or less the same which surprises me even more.  I've found a pretty wide range of different sounds in the different types of 45 ST tubes I have tried.  The difference was readily apparent to me.


----------



## Neogeo333

I for one would like to get my hands on a 45 amp asap.  Been doing some reading and from what I've seen most get into the 45 game with a Yamamoto or a Korneff clone.  In the headphone dept there  is the EC 4-45.  I got a pair of Tango irons pick for a SE build but still undecided on what kind of design to use.  Hope after my 300b from Glenn is done and when funds are available Glenn can come up with a design.  Planning to use an RGN1064 as rec and maybe a c3g or c3m as the Yamamoto.  Most people say that after you get used to the 45 signature sound its hard to listen to other tubes.  Specially for vocals and jazz music.  
  
 I too notice that the EML people say that its either love it or hate it.  Most will stick to the globe ones.  I got lucky 2 years ago on scoring 5 globes ones that measure high and 2 even still have a blue-ish glow.


----------



## Xcalibur255

neogeo333 said:


> I for one would like to get my hands on a 45 amp asap.  Been doing some reading and from what I've seen most get into the 45 game with a Yamamoto or a Korneff clone.  In the headphone dept there  is the EC 4-45.  I got a pair of Tango irons pick for a SE build but still undecided on what kind of design to use.  Hope after my 300b from Glenn is done and when funds are available Glenn can come up with a design.  Planning to use an RGN1064 as rec and maybe a c3g or c3m as the Yamamoto.  Most people say that after you get used to the 45 signature sound its hard to listen to other tubes.  Specially for vocals and jazz music.
> 
> I too notice that the EML people say that its either love it or hate it.  Most will stick to the globe ones.  I got lucky 2 years ago on scoring 5 globes ones that measure high and 2 even still have a blue-ish glow.


 
  
 I've found that it can ruin you for other _transformer coupled _tube amps.  The 45 is about as good as it gets really amongst designs that require an output transformer; the tone..... the transparency...... the holographic imaging....... it just sounds very very right.
  
 But I've found my OTL coexists alongside my 45 amp very nicely because there is just something inherently different in the presentation between amps that have output transformers and ones that don't.  Nice to be able to choose either at a whim.
  
 There are limitations though.  One of the reasons why my 45 is the only amp of its kind made by Glenn is because of the drive limitations.  1.6W is usually enough, but not always, and the amp runs out of voltage on higher impedance loads so that takes stuff like the HD800 and Beyer T1 off the table completely.  You could get around it with a custom made OPT that had dual secondaries, or a tertiary that feed back in to make the output stage impedance adaptable, but it means more complication and more money.  My amp was expensive as it was.  Glenn likes to do the 300B because it is more flexible all around, more power, more options.  I've always wanted to hear David's amp to see how it compares to mine.  I'm sure neither is better than the other, just different standout strengths.  Glenn tried to talk me into 300B as well, but I was dead set on the 45.  Just had this gut feeling you know?


----------



## Xcalibur255

On a side note, things are looking optimistic for the globes.  I'm underbiasing them a bit right now to be on the safe side, but even at 30mA they are sounding very nice now that they have been on a few hours.  The bass control isn't quite as good as my favorite ST 45 tubes, but these Ken Rads image a little better and pick up a bit more fine detail in the midrange.  Which is really saying something on a system that is already really good at those things.  I really like the treble and midrange presentation too, very smooth and open but just a bit honey dipped.  I think these may actually be made by Ken Rad.  I had assumed they were a re-brand because I wasn't aware of Ken Rad being a manufacturer of this particular tube, but these have the Ken Rad house sound in terms of tone, just tempered by the inherent balance and even handedness of the 45 sound in general.
  
 I'm crossing my fingers they bias up about the same when I power them on again tomorrow.  If that happens then I'm good to go.  Can't wait to hear what they sound like running at 34 or 36mA.


----------



## Neogeo333

Are you using it solely as a headphone amp or does it also double as speaker amp?  The transformers I had in mind are vintage Tango HS5 with sec taps to 4,8,16,and 32ohms.  Since it's going to be doing double duty.   Most of my cans are low impedance. 
  
 Yes, at first Glenn also tried to steer me away from the 45 and suggested 300b.   Seeing how masterfully David's amp came out i feel it put a spell on me.   Hence I wanted the 300b.   I'm sure with the right components a 45 is hard to beat.   But then it still wouldn't have the lows a 300b produces or be able to drive lower than 95db speakers.   Is there such a tube?   As liquid as a 45 but also great low end as a 300b?


----------



## No_One411

neogeo333 said:


> Are you using it solely as a headphone amp or does it also double as speaker amp?  The transformers I had in mind are vintage Tango HS5 with sec taps to 4,8,16,and 32ohms.  Since it's going to be doing double duty.   Most of my cans are low impedance.
> 
> Yes, at first Glenn also tried to steer me away from the 45 and suggested 300b.   Seeing how masterfully David's amp came out i feel it put a spell on me.   Hence I wanted the 300b.   I'm sure with the right components a 45 is hard to beat.   But then it still wouldn't have the lows a 300b produces or be able to drive lower than 95db speakers.   Is there such a tube?   As liquid as a 45 but also great low end as a 300b?


 
  
 Perhaps 2A3s? It seems like 45s are pretty limited due to what they can actually power, hence the limitations with driving some equipment.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Xcalibur255

neogeo333 said:


> Are you using it solely as a headphone amp or does it also double as speaker amp?  The transformers I had in mind are vintage Tango HS5 with sec taps to 4,8,16,and 32ohms.  Since it's going to be doing double duty.   Most of my cans are low impedance.
> 
> Yes, at first Glenn also tried to steer me away from the 45 and suggested 300b.   Seeing how masterfully David's amp came out i feel it put a spell on me.   Hence I wanted the 300b.   I'm sure with the right components a 45 is hard to beat.   But then it still wouldn't have the lows a 300b produces or be able to drive lower than 95db speakers.   Is there such a tube?   As liquid as a 45 but also great low end as a 300b?


 
  
 Don't believe what people say about 45 not having great lows.  My 45 has the best bass of any amp I have ever personally heard, tube or ss.  It's the whole package, weight/slam AND speed/control.  45 tubes have amazing bass when the amp is designed right.  It's still the thing that surprises me the most when I listen to mine.  Hearing bass string instruments is a treat because you hear so much texture in the notes that other amps can't bring out but the weight and power of the notes are still there too.
  
 Mine is solely a headphone amp, running Lundahl LL1664 OPTs.  They only have an 8 and 16 ohm secondary so Glenn used the 16 for the output.  I don't know if upping the Z out to 32 would salvage the ability to run stuff like the HD800 or not, Glenn would know better than me for sure.  But on paper it seems like a nice setup with your Tangos.  You have the 4-8-16 taps for speakers and the 32 for headphones.
  
 The 2A3 kind of sits right in the middle between those two choices too, something worth considering.  But the 2A3 doesn't seem to have the magic tone and transparency the 45 has.  I had a 6B4G amp for a short while, same tube as the 2A3 only with 6.3V filaments.  It sounded very nice, but was overtly colored in a way.  The 45 has a purity of tone that makes a lot of other things feel untrue to the music.


----------



## Xcalibur255

moatsart said:


> Would multiple 45s in parallel increase power output without sacrificing their beautiful sonic qualities?


 
  
 Possibly.  This is what Eddie Current does.  But I don't think you get the extra power for free if you know what I mean.  Some designers don't like to do parallel output and there must be a reason why.
  
 The logical solution in my mind is to have a custom made output transformer with two secondaries, one at 20 ohms and the other at 200.  Then do a low/high switch.  But I'm not sure if you can get away with no feedback for both, and it might come with a sonic penalty of its own.
  
 I just resigned myself to the fact that headphones with impedances in the triple digits are basically off limits on my 45 amp.  With great stuff like the HE-560 out there that's not so hard to live with, but I see a recent trend of everything go to higher Z including the orthos and it does worry me.


----------



## No_One411

moatsart said:


> Would multiple 45s in parallel increase power output without sacrificing their beautiful sonic qualities?


 
 Eddie Current uses 4 45s in his design. I'm not an expert with tubes at all, but I'd imagine that you'd get an increase in power output by parallel output tubes, but will also need a larger driver stage to get the necessary current to the output stage. 
  
 Expensive, more parts, etc. There are so many tradeoffs in these designs. I think Glenn is of the clean and simple camp, which I think is the correct and most elegant design.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The C3g is definitely up to the challenge of driving the harder load.  I mean Yamamoto does a headphone amp that is single stage, just the C3g (or maybe it was the C3m) by itself and it produces basically the same 1.5 watts the 45 can.  The C3g is a really amazing tube, both from a specification and a practical application perspective.
  
 The question is, does paralleling the output stage give you more voltage swing, or just more current?  It's the former problem that needs solving.


----------



## Neogeo333

Or go push pull.   Not much to scratch in that department.  Only one 45 pp the Dejavu one with Acrosound irons.   But parallel and pp will never sound like a se and vice versa.   In my opinion the 45 should always be se and as simple as it can be.


----------



## Xcalibur255

neogeo333 said:


> Or go push pull.   Not much to scratch in that department.  Only one 45 pp the Dejavu one with Acrosound irons.   But parallel and pp will never sound like a se and vice versa.   In my opinion the 45 should always be se and as simple as it can be.


 
  
 I think people have done it.  No reason not to consider it among your options.  It's sort of like using pentode drivers, lots of purists turn their nose up at the idea but if you look at the DIY scene people get some really great results from them.  I guess it all depends on the specific circuit implementations and your goals for how you want it to perform.


----------



## No_One411

xcalibur255 said:


> The C3g is definitely up to the challenge of driving the harder load.  I mean Yamamoto does a headphone amp that is single stage, just the C3g (or maybe it was the C3m) by itself and it produces basically the same 1.5 watts the 45 can.  The C3g is a really amazing tube, both from a specification and a practical application perspective.
> 
> The question is, does paralleling the output stage give you more voltage swing, or just more current?  It's the former problem that needs solving.


 
 Ah yes, I forgot how amazing of a tube the C3g is. It's great how Glenn is able to find these "non-audio" tubes and produce such great results from them. This includes the 6BL7s and tv damper diodes. Looking at the specs for these, they were built to much higher standards than some audio tubes. It's just up to someone like Glenn to work his magic and get all the optimal bias points. You really can't just throw any of these tubes in your design and expect them to work perfectly. 
  
 Seems like Glenn isn't a huge fan of push-pull or "balanced" designs. It's essentially almost doubling the components, output impedance, complexity and cost. I know some people center tap the secondary windings of the transformers for balanced operation...


----------



## Xcalibur255

I would say, for what it's worth NeoGeo, that unless we can solve the drive limitations of the design without losing the magic of the sound, it's probably better and safer to stick with 300B in the long run.  It's quite a sticking point being locked out of half the headphones on the market, and if you want to run speakers you have to have super high sensitivity and take special care to eliminate any noise sources to use the 45 in that application.  The 300B seems like a better fit from a practical point of view, and it's not like you are settling in terms of sound.  Driven correctly the 300B sounds awesome.  It's gotten its reputation for being syrupy because so many designers use driver stages that aren't up to the job (like the 6SN7).  The C3g solves that problem.
  
 Or, just go with your gut.    I did 45 not because it was the smartest choice but because it's just what I wanted.  I fell in love with the idea of the tube and wanted to see it to fruition.


----------



## Neogeo333

xcalibur255 said:


> I would say, for what it's worth NeoGeo, that unless we can solve the drive limitations of the design without losing the magic of the sound, it's probably better and safer to stick with 300B in the long run.  It's quite a sticking point being locked out of half the headphones on the market, and if you want to run speakers you have to have super high sensitivity and take special care to eliminate any noise sources to use the 45 in that application.  The 300B seems like a better fit from a practical point of view, and it's not like you are settling in terms of sound.  Driven correctly the 300B sounds awesome.  It's gotten its reputation for being syrupy because so many designers use driver stages that aren't up to the job (like the 6SN7).  The C3g solves that problem.
> 
> Or, just go with your gut.    I did 45 not because it was the smartest choice but because it's just what I wanted.  I fell in love with the idea of the tube and wanted to see it to fruition.


 
 If I haven't fallen in love with speakers again I would most certainly get the custom transformers for my 300b with two  sec instead of only 40ohms.  Oh well.   At least they are fairly efficient.   But who knows what will happen next.   Maybe I'll be amazed by the 300b that I'll forget about the 45.  Can't wait to try them.


----------



## rosgr63

moatsart said:


> This is my Good Friday gift to you all.





 That's great Nathan, thanks.


----------



## rosgr63

One of my amps uses 45's or VT 52's which are an upgraded/special 45.
  
 Even though I have a nice selection of Globe 45's including Raytheon Box Plates, Arcturus Blue Glass etc, I am hooked on the VT 52's.
  
 It's true that 6SN7's can't drive the 300B's as good as other tubes like some pentodes strapped in triode mode like WE328, WE310, C3g's etc.
 However, some 300B's driven by the right 6SN7's can sound great too, my AVVT 300B's driven by RFT 6SN7's sound excellent.
  
 The biggest problem is finding good/strong tubes.
  
 This is what I find out with my headphone systems and preferences.


----------



## Xcalibur255

My holy grail tube for 45s is probably the EverReady Raytheon 4-Pillar box plate, either globe or ST would be fine.  I saw a pair on eBay with original boxes and regret not taking the plunge and just doing it.  I mean I blew $400 on TS BGRP 6SN7 back in the day, and the return on investment on the 45s is higher arguably.
  
 My other moment of regret was passing up an absolutely pristine pair of in original boxes DeForest Audion 445s.  I think those went for $500 and given what they were and their condition that was probably a fair price. 
  
 But then I think about a tube suddenly dying or becoming noisy and the high costs begin to feel less justifiable.  Honestly the cheapest 45 tube you can find (probably because they were the last ones made), the early 50's era Sylvania print base, is easily one of my favorites out of what I have heard so far.  It has a sweeter, more playful tone and a great sense of rhythm and drive.  I'm also digging what I heard last night from my Ken-Rad UX-245 globes.  I'm going to turn the bias up a little bit on them next time and see how well they can sing, but they were satisfying as they were in that first listening session.


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> I for one would like to get my hands on a 45 amp asap.  Been doing some reading and from what I've seen most get into the 45 game with a Yamamoto or a Korneff clone.  In the headphone dept there  is the EC 4-45.  I got a pair of Tango irons pick for a SE build but still undecided on what kind of design to use.  Hope after my 300b from Glenn is done and when funds are available Glenn can come up with a design.  Planning to use an RGN1064 as rec and maybe a c3g or c3m as the Yamamoto.  Most people say that after you get used to the 45 signature sound its hard to listen to other tubes.  Specially for vocals and jazz music.


 
 Hi George...here's a pic of a Yamamoto clone with vintage Tango iron for you.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 



 I am sure Glenn can build a moar better one!
  
 I agree that the 45 tube is special. I much prefer it to the 2A3 or 300B but I'm only using speakers.
 I have not had any luck with 45 Globes so I'm enjoy later, cheaper 45 ST. I like them all.
 At least the NOS 45 ST are less expensive than 2A3 and 300B tubes!


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> One of my amps uses 45's or VT 52's which are an upgraded/special 45.
> 
> I am hooked on the VT 52's.


 
 Hi Stavros...you just had to say it!
 My TK45 amp has the same iron as yours but I don't have the switch to change the OT filament voltage so I can't use VT52 or 50s unless I rewire.
 You should not be tempting me.


----------



## Neogeo333

Steven your teasing me with that pic.   And now that one can also use vt52 and 50 with a switch it's even more tempting.   
  
 Your right in the price of those globes type  alright. The prices seem to keep going up.   Then again 50s and vt52 ain't cheap either.   Too bad the 45 and 50s have limited compatibility with speakers.


----------



## rosgr63

Raytheon VT 52 Engraved Base Box Plates are great tubes.


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> Steven your teasing me with that pic.   And now that one can also use vt52 and 50 with a switch it's even more tempting.


 
 The Yamamoto and Korneff only use 45 tubes.
 I would choose the Yamamoto clone but I'd buy a real Korneff, built by Jeff, if I come across one.
  
 The amp that can use 45 and VT-52 is by Attilio Caccamo of Tektron Italia.
 His amps have a switch that changes the output transformers filament voltage between 2.5V, 5V and 7.5V so you can run 45, 2A3, 50, VT-52 or 300B.
 It is an interesting amp to have if you collect these tubes.
 You can roll tubes without rolling amps!
 I have one of his 45 amps but it doesn't have the switch so I'd have to rewire the output transformer voltage each time to change tube types. This is why Stavros should not tempt me with his 45 Specials!
  
 Tektron sell their transformers, so it might be possible for Glenn to build an amp that can use 45, 2A3 VT-52 and 300B tubes. http://www.tektron-italia.com/


----------



## Neogeo333

Another great tube of that variety is the 182/482 and 183/483 similar to a 45 but with 5v filament.  Wow,  a nice iron that can use all those low power dht would be perfect. 
  
 Let see if I can find out how much the wife is worth.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Then you've got the 71A and the 10Y if you can live with less than a single watt of power.  Both very special tubes.  Glenn used to use the 10Y as the driver stage for his 300B designs before the C3g supplanted it.  My 45 was originally intended to use a 10Y driver stage, but I got cold feed on the idea because those tubes are becoming so incredibly hard to find now.  But...... if you get a good pair you may never need another one.  Tubes with thoriated tungsten filaments last forever.
  
 There is also the underrated 46 tube, which can be run in a 45 amp with an adapter at the expense of slightly less power output.  I have a pair and for some reason have never really taken the time to play around with them.  I think the fact that I had no idea how much plate current to put on them was a major factor.  The data sheets are oddly vague on that key data point if memory serves.


----------



## Neogeo333

Then there's the DHT from Europe like the PX4 and PX25.


----------



## parbaked

xcalibur255 said:


> There is also the underrated 46 tube, which can be run in a 45 amp with an adapter at the expense of slightly less power output.


 
 Jef Larson, who built my 6197 SEP amp, built an amp running the 47 tube.
 He said it was his best effort to date:
  

  
 You could almost build one from this up-skirt pic:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Neogeo333

parbaked said:


> Jef Larson, who built my 6197 SEP amp, built an amp running the 47 tube.
> He said it was his best effort to date:
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If one know how to properly solder, it looks more simple than a Bottlehead kit.


----------



## daigo

Point to point soldering always makes me nervous.  Really need to be organized for that type of circuit building.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Here are the globes.  Pic is terrible but best I can do.  The bias issue from yesterday must have been a fluke, they are very stable and don't seem to be drifting from each other, hard to find in tubes this old.  I think I scored a very nice pair of globes here.


----------



## rosgr63

Great looking amp Tyrell


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## whirlwind

I am very close to being done reading this whole thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am like on page 696.
  
 I can say that great food and great amps, sure do not lack in this thread and it has been so cool to watch Glenn's creations appear in chronological order.
  
 I have learned quite a lot about tubes also, which many people in this thread know about....especially Starvos and Glenn.
  
 When I see the under side along with the top side of one of Glenn's new creations, they just speak of quality through and through.
  
 I am going to be so proud to own one of these creations.....and I am sure that I will have many questions about some tubes in the not so distant future.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


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## MoatsArt

.


----------



## rosgr63

Happy Easter


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## rosgr63

Enjoy it Nathan.
  
 Don't worry, Glenn will build you the beast amp for your budget.


----------



## gibosi

On the chance that some of you might be interested in my progress as I continue to learn how to get the best sound out of my Glenn OTL...
  
 I use a DAC/pre-amp (Audio-gd Fun) in front of the OTL. On a hunch, to take advantage of the increased gain of the 5998 in the 5998 mode, I turned the OTL volume down to below 20% and the volume of the pre-amp up above 80%. This reduces the hum down to the point that it is about the same as running 6AS7 and 6080. In other words, I can now enjoy and appreciate 5998, properly biased. Nice! 
  
 On another note, I continue to enjoy the Lorenz C3g. I have only taken them out for a short time to test a recent arrival, an NU 6F8G, and then popped them right back in.
  
 And I want to say publicly, I think Glenn deserves a medal for his patience as I and all the other noobs slowly figure out what we are doing...


----------



## Ultrainferno

ultrainferno said:


> I'm doing another group buy for the Lafigaro 339 guys, this time its RCA branded, Tung-Sol made 6SJ7(wgt) tubes with the rare mesh plates.
> I have done the exact same one last year already
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll be getting them on tuesday, please send a PM if you want some.


----------



## Neogeo333

I think it's natural for some of us that have gone through that uncertain phase when choosing an amp.   Unless you have years of experience and know exactly what you want it's better to leave it to the expert and follow his/her recommendation.   My first two amp where good but then I didn't know better and could definitely get better bang per bucks going another route.   
  
 Don't worry Nathan I'm sure Glenn will build  you a monster amp.   The most difficult part is the wait.   Which leave you time to hunt for tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

moatsart said:


> Happy Easter, Stavros!  We are enjoying our Easter Sunday evening meal at the moment (break between courses).


 

 HAPPY EASTER. I'm dying some eggs. I know. A bit late, but Easter isn't over yet.


----------



## Xcalibur255

moatsart said:


> I have time to ponder at the moment, and I have been doing alot of pondering about my OTL.
> 
> My thoughts turn to a DHT OTL headphone amp.  Looking at a few datasheets, it seems as though the transconductance of the 45 puts it out of contention unless (assuming using them in parallel increases transconductance - is this right?) I put a lot in parallel.  Price would rule this out.  This leaves the 300B and 2A3 as possibilities.  Perhaps two in parallel per channel would do the trick.  Would a single C3G per channel be enough to drive these?  Are there other DHT tube possibilities (need to be current production or readily available NOS)?  Anyone tried DHT in OTL before?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glenn's personal OTL amp he built for his own use years ago is a parallel 2A3 design.  What you're thinking is certainly possible.  The downside:  the output impedance is high enough that driving low impedance headphones is really not possible with this setup, so you would be limiting yourself to the HD800, T1 and other high Z phones only.  Basically the opposite problem from what I have with Kanade (my 45 DHT amp).


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## parbaked

moatsart said:


> Cool - I want an amp that is optimised for T1s and HD800 and don't care about anything else.


 
 Then you might not even need the 5998 switch.
 You can spend the savings on tubes and pizza...


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Xcalibur255

moatsart said:


> Kanade is an OPT amp, isn't it?
> 
> Warm regards
> 
> Nathan


 
 Yes it is.  All transformers are Lundahl.  I think my one regret was not going for amorphous core OPTs, but I was really push the limits of what I could afford as it was so I drew a line in the sand.  I regret it a little now, since doing a custom amp like this is kind of once in a lifetime thing in my mind.  Sometimes I feel like I can "hear" the transformers just a little which is a testament to how incredibly transparent the design is.  The manual bias adjustment and full wave bridge rectification design both contribute to that.  This is why it's been a challenge to find genuinely good 45 tubes, the amp is brutally revealing of the quality of the tubes it has running in it.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## No_One411

moatsart said:


> This question is for my interest only and not for the purposes of the design of my amp.
> 
> Consider a hypothetical dual mono amp that had four 300Bs per channel with manual bias of each tube.  It would seem ridiculous to have eight ammeters spread between one or two chassis.  Would it be possible to use a switch to determine which triode was being measured and just have one ammeter per channel?
> 
> Would there be any negative sonic effects?


 
 Are you still talking about using DHTs in an OTL design??
  
 I think I've seen a handful of power amps using multiple output tubes ( >2 ) per channel. 
  
 If you're thinking to use the amp for both headphones and speakers, it might be possible to implement a switch, since the loads for headphones vs speakers are very different. 
  
 Glenn or someone more knowledgeable about tube amps would be best to answer though...


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## 2359glenn

MoatsArt
  
 It is best to keep it simple and keep the cost down.
 I would go with the Lundahl power transformer.
 With the larger chassis the Clarity 77668  440uf/600v capacitors 2 for output and 2 in the power supply.
 And go with six 6BL7s skip the 5998 switch most of these tubes are crap anyway.
 You still will be able to use 6AS7s in this amp.
 Go with the C3g for driver.
 And GoldPoint Stepped attenuator


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> It is best to keep it simple and keep the cost down.


 
  
 I agree. My amps by Glenn are simple, beautiful, and affordable.
  
 I am a Happy Amp-er!


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Neogeo333

dont forget the other OTL tube.  The 6C33C.  Dont know if it will fit for high impedance phones like your HD800 and T1 only Glenn can answer that.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## No_One411

moatsart said:


> Thanks kindly for the suggestion - The tubes certainly look affordable.  They are the output tubes Craig uses in the Zana Deux, aren't they?
> 
> I am happily leaving all decisions in relation to the amp's design up to Glenn.
> 
> ...


 
 The 6C33C tubes used in the Zana get ridiculously hot. You can seriously not run your heater if you own a Zana, and it's very unbearable during the summer. Other than that though, amazing sound. 
  
 I'd stick with Glenn's standard options. Can't imagine you'd go wrong with anything Glenn makes.


----------



## Clayton SF

This was my foray into GlennAmp Territory.
 The conversation with Glenn went as such:
  
 Glenn, please build me an amp for $x.
  
 He did and I have been happy ever since--right parbaked?
  
 You've got to trust the Master.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Oh my, they made me MOT on the boards. That severely limits my posting power 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Not that you guys didn't know who I was


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations Lieven!!!!!!


----------



## wink

Quote:Ultrainferno 





> Oh my, they made me MOT on the boards. That severely limits my posting power
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Who dat dude?


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> Congratulations Lieven!!!!!!


 
  
 Oh but I don't see it like that Stavros. Other reviewers get a "reviewer" tag, I am a "MOT", that severely limits my posting liberty


----------



## wink

That means I stay ahead of you...


----------



## Ultrainferno

wink said:


> That means I stay ahead of you...


 
  
 We'll see about that!


----------



## punit

ultrainferno said:


> Oh but I don't see it like that Stavros. Other reviewers get a "reviewer" tag, I am a "MOT", that severely limits my posting liberty


 
 I guess that's because Headfonia also sells stuff as compared to other review sites which only review.


----------



## Ultrainferno

punit said:


> I guess that's because Headfonia also sells stuff as compared to other review sites which only review.


 
  
 I can guarantee you I don't sell anything. Headfonia store is from Mike and he left Headfonia for that reason. (staying objective)
 As a MOT I can't comment on any products, guess that makes Headfi superfluous for me.
  
 Ah well, I guess Headfi admins don't treat everyone the same.Let's hope they come to their senses


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> Oh but I don't see it like that Stavros. Other reviewers get a "reviewer" tag, I am a "MOT", that severely limits my posting liberty


 

 That means I can say all I want and you can't reply to me????????
  
 How wonderful and fair!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 Clayton get ready.........


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> That means I can say all I want and you can't reply to me????????
> 
> How wonderful and fair!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Clayton get ready.........


 

 Do note I have your personal email addresses, I can say whatever I want that way. Can you see me replying by email to every post you do on the boards? 
 But it's pretty sad really as I won't be able to comment on how product X or Y sounds. So basically I can't use Headfi for what Headfi is supposed to be for: talk about gear and compare items.


----------



## Clayton SF

rosgr63 said:


> That means I can say all I want and you can't reply to me????????
> How wonderful and fair!!!!!!!!!!!
> Clayton get ready.........


 
  

_*EXTREME OPINIONS!*_


----------



## Xcalibur255

neogeo333 said:


> dont forget the other OTL tube.  The 6C33C.  Dont know if it will fit for high impedance phones like your HD800 and T1 only Glenn can answer that.


 
  
 The 6C33C has a strong cult following.  The downside to them is they are large and very power hungry and necessitate a large and hot running amp.  I chatted with Glenn about such a design once.  For rectification he told me it would either have to be solid state or use 4 (four!) 3DG4 tubes.  The 3DG4 has almost twice the current ability of a 5U4G, which itself is one of the higher power rectifiers.  It all felt like massive overkill the more I thought about it.
  
 It didn't occur to us at the time, but one could probably also do with using 2 5U8C rectifiers.  Either way its a lot of space, weight and heat just to power headphones.


----------



## whirlwind

Is the Tung Sol 6F8G worth it's price of $100 for use with Glenn's OTL
  
 Would love to hear some opinions...Does it hold up to the really good 6SN7's


----------



## Neogeo333

xcalibur255 said:


> The 6C33C has a strong cult following.  The downside to them is they are large and very power hungry and necessitate a large and hot running amp.  I chatted with Glenn about such a design once.  For rectification he told me it would either have to be solid state or use 4 (four!) 3DG4 tubes.  The 3DG4 has almost twice the current ability of a 5U4G, which itself is one of the higher power rectifiers.  It all felt like massive overkill the more I thought about it.
> 
> It didn't occur to us at the time, but one could probably also do with using 2 5U8C rectifiers.  Either way its a lot of space, weight and heat just to power headphones.


 
 Damn, 4 3d4g? That's crazy.  Still it's a very good sounding tube.   No wonder top brands like Tenor Audio and BAT use them.   I think I saw in eBay a otl amp with very small dimentions with 6c33c.   One with a pair and a quad.   Forgot what's the name.


----------



## Neogeo333

whirlwind said:


> Is the Tung Sol 6F8G worth it's price of $100 for use with Glenn's OTL
> 
> Would love to hear some opinions...Does it hold up to the really good 6SN7's


 
 It's a little too much for me.   But for anyone that haven't heard them it may be worth it.   One of the top if not the top 6f8g.   I like them better than their 6sn7 counterpart.   Specially the round mica.


----------



## gibosi

Another question about 6F8G....
  
 Currently on eBay, listing #311134071038, there is a Tungsram 6F8G. Is this likely a rebrand? Or do we know that Tungsram made these tubes?


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> Is the Tung Sol 6F8G worth it's price of $100 for use with Glenn's OTL
> 
> Would love to hear some opinions...Does it hold up to the really good 6SN7's


 

 The 6F8G and 6SN7 are electrically identical tubes.  Differences in how they deal with vibration and microphonics due to the glass shape and mica supports may make the 6F8G a tiny bit more resolving, but I personally give the squinty eye to posts people write about them sounding head and shoulders above their 6SN7 counterparts.  I really can't see how that could be.  What makes the 6F8G desirable is that it's a less expensive way to get into the legendary Tung Sol black glass round plate if that is your goal.  So is getting a 12SN7 and using a voltage doubling adapter.
  
 FWIW I think the best I ever heard my OTL sound was when I was borrowing a Philips ECC33 for evaluation.  A very close second would be the Marconi Osram B65 greyglass, and the Tung Sol BGRP third.  I'm not as big a fan of the ECC32 as most people are, maybe my particular tube is troubled but the presentation always feels forced and grainy to me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Another question about 6F8G....
> 
> Currently on eBay, listing #311134071038, there is a Tungsram 6F8G. Is this likely a rebrand? Or do we know that Tungsram made these tubes?


 
  
 It has ECC32 style plates, but something about it makes me nervous somehow.  I would post in the 6SN7 thread if you haven't and see if the folks there well versed in European tubes can be sure of its origin.


----------



## Neogeo333

xcalibur255 said:


> It has ECC32 style plates, but something about it makes me nervous somehow.  I would post in the 6SN7 thread if you haven't and see if the folks there well versed in European tubes can be sure of its origin.


 
 Did the Europeans ever made 6f8g?  I thought all were American rebrands.  The Mullard 6f8g are Americans as far as I know.


----------



## Xcalibur255

neogeo333 said:


> Did the Europeans ever made 6f8g?  I thought all were American rebrands.  The Mullard 6f8g are Americans as far as I know.


 

 This is why I was cautious.  To the best of my knowledge no, but some European tube makers did make tubes specifically to export to the USA so it could still be the real deal.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Mailed Jude, MOT status gone. woohoo. Sorry Stavros, but I'm back


----------



## Xcalibur255

Update on the 45 Globes:  I re-biased them both to 32mA now that they've run for a bit and have de-gassed, and they hold dead even with each other with no drift.  Amazing for 85 year old tubes.
  
 *ahem*  So.............................  I get it now.
  
 That starry eyed look people have when they talk about these old globe tubes.  I get it now.  They're better than the ST tubes in nearly every way.  Lithe, delicate, and finessed without sacrificing dynamics or resolution.  They're *more* resolving than my previous favorite tubes, by a fair margin too.  The soundstage is the best I've ever heard on headphones, bar none.
  
 The reason I say "nearly" is because they can't match the ST types for bass control.  I do still have some headroom to go up to 36mA, and I know for fact doing this will tighten that bass up some, but the whole presentation sounds so lovely like this I'm just not going to touch it for now.  That, and I don't want to beat on my new glass treasures so soon.  36mA is 100% plate dissipation for a 45 after all.
  
 Glad I took a chance on this purchase.  These Ken-Rads are something special.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> This was my foray into GlennAmp Territory.
> The conversation with Glenn went as such:
> 
> Glenn, please build me an amp for $x.
> ...


 
  
 Same here, just asked Glenn I was to use 6AS7G, 6SN7, and GZ34 tubes and he made me an amp I'm still very happy with.


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> Mailed Jude, MOT status gone. woohoo. Sorry Stavros, but I'm back


 

 That's way too bad, I can't attack you now..................what a shame!
  
 I am not sure if there were any European 6F8G's but it's possible.
 Nothing surprises me with tubes anymore.


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> I am not sure if there were any European 6F8G's but it's possible. Nothing surprises me with tubes anymore.


 
  
 Yep. It wouldn't surprise me if there were some Spanish/French/Italian 6F8Gs.


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> Mailed Jude, MOT status gone. woohoo. Sorry Stavros, but I'm back


 
 Yes! Nice to get the right identity.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## wotts

If it makes you feel any better, I don't recall hearing the term at all. That being said, I'm curious now - it seems like a good idea to know before I try my hand at building an amp (that isn't a kit).


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## gibosi

A colleague just purchased a pair of Lorenz C3g with gold pins, the same ones I have, removed the metal caps, and took a couple pics side by side with the Siemens C3g/s. For anyone who is interested, they can be seen here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/9510#post_11496566
  
 The construction differences are striking. And to my ears, at least, and not at all surprising, they also sound different. Considering that these were manufactured about 10 years apart, the Lorenz in the mid-1960s and the Siemens in the mid-1970's. or later, should we assume both were manufactured in the same factory by Siemens some 10 years apart? Or perhaps in different factories owned by two different companies some 10 years apart?
  
 I love a good mystery. lol


----------



## 2359glenn

moatsart said:


> I just read about what a choke is and connected it with a question someone asked earlier in the thread - Is there a better alternative to a coupling capacitor in blocking DC from headphones at output of OTL.
> 
> Based on what I read, I think that a choke allows DC to pass but blocks AC (the opposite of a coupling cap?).  What would happen if you put a relatively low value resistor in parallel with a suitable rated choke, the choke passing DC to ground and blocking AC, while the resistor was connected to the output.  Assuming that the DC follows the path of least resistance, it would be filtered out of the signal path, wouldn't it.  If this is the case, could this arrangement be used to replace the output (coupling) cap?  Would there be any sonic differences between this and the output cap?
> 
> ...


 

 Won't work the choke would short out the amplifier plus Electricity takes all paths not just the easiest.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## MIKELAP

moatsart said:


> Thanks Glenn. I told you I was dumb. Lucky I have you to build my amp.
> 
> After consulting with Stavros, I have decided to call my amp "Φως Αποκάλυψις", which I believe means "Light of Revelation". I think in classical Greek it is pronounced something like "Fose Apocaloopsis".
> 
> ...


 
    If you must remove the shield just use a file along the edge of the tube  its alluminum so very soft metal   but base will come off  make shure to place a mark, to position centering guide pin in same place it was before


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Any advantage to take the C3g metal cap off or leave it on??


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> Any advantage to take the C3g metal cap off or leave it on??


 

 Personally I would leave it on. It was designed with the metal shield for a reason.
 Taking it off only makes it look cool and serves no purpose.


----------



## gibosi

And I would add, it doesn't even put on much of a light show with the cans removed. Not worth the trouble in my opinion. And like Glenn says, it was designed to provide 10,000 hours of service inside those little metal cans, so my thinking is it is best to leave well enough alone.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> And I would add, it doesn't even put on much of a light show with the cans removed. Not worth the trouble in my opinion. And like Glenn says, it was designed to provide 10,000 hours of service inside those little metal cans, so my thinking is it is best to leave well enough alone.


 
 Wow.... 10,000 hours, that is fantastic!
  
 Yeah, why take them off.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Nathan you will still have tube rectifiers unless you wanted your amp designed to use SS diodes to perform this job.  Rectifiers convert AC to DC, this function is independent of the transformer providing the incoming current.
  
 I took the shields off my C3g purely because I think they look ugly with them on.  If I ever have a need to switch to my backup pair I'll take the shields off those too before using them.  It's a hobby and its supposed to be fun, I say do whatever you want and enjoy.


----------



## rosgr63

moatsart said:


> Sorry. Stupid Nathan strikes again.
> 
> Goodbye.


 

 I learn new things about audio everyday Nathan.
 There's nothing wrong asking a question.
  
 I like the name you've chosen.
  
 The last amp Glenn gave me is named GRETA *G*lenn-*R*-*E*xperimental-*T*ube-*A*mp.
 I need to se it up soon.
 Steven I know I am very very bad for not doing it sooner.............sorry


----------



## gibosi

I have yet to name my amp. Sometimes, I think I should call it "気高い" (Kedakai) which is Japanese for "Sublime". And other times, "力" (Chikara) for "Power". But for the time being, "The Glenn" seems to fit.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> The last amp Glenn gave me is named GRETA *G*lenn-*R*-*E*xperimental-*T*ube-*A*mp.
> I need to set it up soon.
> Steven I know I am very very bad for not doing it sooner.............sorry


 
 That's ok Stavros...I hope you've recovered from your weekend feasting!
  
 I have been acquiring a heavy position in GRETA's "secret" output tubes.
  
 If these tubes become the Next Big Thing, we could make enough money to buy a new DJ rig for the Beach Bar!


----------



## rosgr63

You are so right Steven, you never know!!!!!!


----------



## gibosi

Glenn,
  
 I am quite sure this is something I don't have to worry about, but thought I should double check to be sure....
  
 If I remove a 12SN7 and insert C3gs, do I have to change the 6/12.25 switch back to 6 volts?


----------



## rosgr63

Yes the C3g have a 6.3V heater


----------



## gibosi

Yes, I know that C3g has a 6.3 heater, but... is the C3g tied to the 6/12/25 switch? Or does it bypass this switch and connected directly to a 6.3V voltage source?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Yes, I know that C3g has a 6.3 heater, but... is the C3g tied to the 6/12/25 switch? Or does it bypass this switch and connected directly to a 6.3V voltage source?


 

 The C3g is tied to only 6.3 volts not to the SN7 switch so the switch can be left in any position when using C3gs.


----------



## gibosi

Thanks! 
  
 I was just short of positive you designed the C3g circuit to bypass the SN7 switch, but again, I wanted to be sure....


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> rosgr63 said:
> 
> 
> > The last amp Glenn gave me is named GRETA *G*lenn-*R*-*E*xperimental-*T*ube-*A*mp.
> ...


 

 Steven it is a crazy circuit using diode bias or should I say rectifier tubes as cathode resistors.
 And the rectifier tubes are built into the output tubes. No bypass capacitors.
 Crazy Idea maybe sounds like crap can't tell anymore ???


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> Steven it is a crazy circuit using diode bias or should I say rectifier tubes as cathode resistors.
> And the rectifier tubes are built into the output tubes. No bypass capacitors.
> Crazy Idea maybe sounds like crap can't tell anymore ???


 
 Hi Glenn...was NY great? What did you eat?
 GRETA is interesting. I never heard of using part of the output tube as the rectifier..very cool.
 Let's see what Stavros thinks compared to your more conventional designs...I'm sure it's not crap!
  
 Nathan...GRETA is no joke. It is an attempt to build a cheap and cheerful amp out of leftover parts that Glenn can't use after upgrading the OTL to a larger chassis and transformers. It has been in the works for over a year.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## Clayton SF

I spent a wonderful evening with parbaked and his family eating great Italian food, drinking good wine, and listening to the smooth sounds of Sheryl Crow on his fabulous tube amp. Hey parbaked -- what's the make and model of that new tube amp of yours?
  
 Anyway, about halfway through dinner I said "I need another Glenn Amp!" and then quietly asked for another glass of wine.
  
 Steven! Thanks for dinner!


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Hey parbaked -- what's the make and model of that new tube amp of yours?


 
 Hi Clayton
 The new toy is a custom Tektron 45 amp by Attillio Caccamo, who's also a friend of Stavros.
 I don't remember any Sheryl Crow but then again I just noticed my vodka is all gone too...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Neogeo333

parbaked said:


> Hi Clayton
> The new toy is a custom Tektron 45 amp by Attillio Caccamo, who's also a friend of Stavros.
> I don't remember any Sheryl Crow but then again I just noticed my vodka is all gone too...
> 
> ...


 
 Nice amp Steven, what speaker your using with that fleawatt amp?


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> Nice amp Steven, what speaker your using with that fleawatt amp?


 
 Thanks George. I hope you are well!
  
 I only bought it because Stavros has some and I am trying to be like him!
  
 The Tektron drives a pair of 1989 Royd Audio Eden monitors from Wales.
 They're only 90 db efficient but a very easy load. The 45 drives them well enough, surprisingly.
 The amp has an active pre-amp section (1/2 the 6SN7 input tube provides pre-amp gain) which helps.
 The source is an iPod > HRT iStreamer Transport/DAC...very simple and wifey approved...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Clayton took this pic the other night before we got too tipsy...

 The Royds are designed to be close to the back wall which probably boosts the in-room efficiency.


----------



## Neogeo333

parbaked said:


> Thanks George. I hope you are well!
> 
> I only bought it because Stavros has some and I am trying to be like him!
> 
> ...


 
 Completely ignored the speaker with that beautiful background.   Its like one of those 70" HD 4K display rich people use as a canvas or backdrop.  But yours better because is the real thing.
  
 What a coincidence, my first British speaker arrived today.  A pair of Jordan Watts MK2 drivers.  Hope their as good as my Coral Betas.  Clayton has to be one of the luckiest person been treated to good food and wonderfull music.


----------



## Ultrainferno

moatsart said:


> .


 
  
  


moatsart said:


> .


 
  
  


moatsart said:


> .


 
  
 Someone has a serious posting issue


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I know that C3g has a 6.3 heater, but... is the C3g tied to the 6/12/25 switch? Or does it bypass this switch and connected directly to a 6.3V voltage source?
> ...


 
 Nice to know, I put this in my notes, along with many other notes that I took going thru these 740 pages of this thread  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.....
  
 Which can leave one's mouth watering over some very wonderful looking food, to say the least.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> moatsart said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...


 

 Let it go Ultra


----------



## punit

whirlwind said:


> Nice to know, I put this in my notes, along with many other notes that I took going thru these 740 pages of this thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Some more stuff to put in your notes (these were communicated over mail to me by Glenn) :
  

You can use 6336 tubes with 422A ,3DG4  5AU4  5AW4, GZ37 rectifiers to drive low impd HP’s on Glenn’s OTL
The 6336 can be used in ether switch position, so use it in the position that sounds best (my amp has 5998 & 6AS7 switch)
The HP’s should be unplugged when switching the 6AS7 / 5998 switch
Also when using 5998’s turn the amp on wait 5 minutes then plug in the headphones. 5998’s sometimes arc over when first turned on, after 5 min they are fine.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Let it go Ultra


 
  
 Sorry Glenn, I have no idea what's happening. I just noticed he's doing that too on other threads. I'll go back to work now


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> What a coincidence, my first British speaker arrived today.  A pair of Jordan Watts MK2 drivers.  Hope their as good as my Coral Betas.


 
 I never heard the Jordan Watts or the Coral Betas.
 I do have some time with the old Jordan JX92 in an elegant, slender TL cabinet. Sounded really good!
 Let us know what cabinets you use and how it sounds...with pics!
  
 Edit: I forgot to mention that Joe Akroyd (Royd Audio) also worked at Goodmans in the 1960s, probably just after Ted Jordan, but their paths definitely crossed!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Someone has a serious posting issue


 
  
 Period!


----------



## rosgr63

Clayton you are so lucky!!!!!!!!!
  
 George nice to know you are doing well, not long before you go to NY, congratulations for your new speakers.
  
 Steven, I've been on this game way too long.
 The biggest enjoyment I ever got out of this hobby is making good friends.
  
 Glenn I bet you GRETA sound fine, I will have it up and running soon.
  
 Currently running my GR Super 10 with 6BL7's driving Grado SR325is......who says low impedance is no good with them????????


----------



## rosgr63

punit said:


> Some more stuff to put in your notes (these were communicated over mail to me by Glenn) :
> 
> 
> You can use 6336 tubes with 422A ,3DG4  5AU4  5AW4, GZ37 rectifiers to dive low impd HP’s on Glenn’s OTL
> ...


 
  
 Very good point Punit.,
 Can't be too careful with them.
 Even good testing 5998's can do that.
 It happened to me on other amps but on my Glenn amps.


----------



## punit

Did you damage anything when it happened Stavros ?


----------



## rosgr63

No, I was very lucky, but it was scary watching the tubes arcing.
 Some people had their headphone drivers damaged.


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Nice to know, I put this in my notes, along with many other notes that I took going thru these 740 pages of this thread
> ...


 
 Thanks much for this info...it has been added to my growing list of notes.


----------



## Neogeo333

parbaked said:


> I never heard the Jordan Watts or the Coral Betas.
> I do have some time with the old Jordan JX92 in an elegant, slender TL cabinet. Sounded really good!
> Let us know what cabinets you use and how it sounds...with pics!
> 
> Edit: I forgot to mention that Joe Akroyd (Royd Audio) also worked at Goodmans in the 1960s, probably just after Ted Jordan, but their paths definitely crossed!


 
 Didn't know that piece of information.  Goodmans line of axiom speakers specially the 80 are so sought after.   I wonder if these speakers share some kind of similarities in sound.   Doubtful but who knows.  
 It's given me more hope on a 45 amp project since yours can move a 90db efficiency speakers it would be easier to power a 95db one.   
  
 No cabinets yet,  had a friend make a cheap open baffle for my 8" Coral Betas and they sound very good except for lack of bass but then again the mids and highs makes up in strides.


----------



## Xcalibur255

punit said:


> Did you damage anything when it happened Stavros ?


 
  
 Glenn and I have both lost headphones to this.  A naughty 5998 blew up my K701s and Glenn lost a pair of nice Grados.  The driver was physically stuffed through the slots of the inner plastic grill.  Honestly I think this precaution could be applied to the 6AS7 and 6080.  This whole family of tubes tends to be a little bit more prone to short and arcing issues when first coming on bias.


----------



## Neogeo333

xcalibur255 said:


> Glenn and I have both lost headphones to this.  A naughty 5998 blew up my K701s and Glenn lost a pair of nice Grados.  The driver was physically stuffed through the slots of the inner plastic grill.  Honestly I think this precaution could be applied to the 6AS7 and 6080.  This whole family of tubes tends to be a little bit more prone to short and arcing issues when first coming on bias.


 
 You got the 6as7 and 6080 nailed alright.   Didn't happen to my Glenn Otl but with a Little Dot.   2 of the 4 GE 6080 arched and fry themselves.   Was scared that the whole amp died.   Luckily just the tubes died.   No headphones were connected at the time.   Never got around to play with 6080 anymore.   Stuck using 5998 and sometimes 6as7.  Other 6080 from Sylvania and rca tested with short or one side dead on my tester before using them.   In my experience stay away from 6080 unless they are GEC or Mullard.


----------



## whirlwind

When I get my amp, I am just going to make it a habit to let it warm up 5 or 10 minutes before i ever plug my headphones in....no matter what tubes that I am using.
  
 That way I will get in that routine and won't forget.
  
 With my Mad Ear+HD, I am used to just leaving my headphones plugged in and turning the amp on and listening......so i need to get out of that routine.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi. I'll be in Hawaii on Thursday. I'm visiting my mother. She is getting on in years and I'll be there to keep her company and make her remember all of the good things I did as a son! (That's a chore in itself). I'm staying at a hotel across from the Honolulu Zoo--my favorite park to contemplate my next amp and plate lunch from a grand old food truck while communicated with the monkeys. My flight takes off at around 9 AM. So wave bye-bye if I fly over your house. Well, okay. If I fly over your yacht!
  
 Aloha--I'll report back from Hawaii when I get there. I'll be there for 5 days.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Enjoy your stay there C. Do post some nice pictures like last time


----------



## Ultrainferno

Glenn, would it be possible to use the 5Z3 tube in your/my 300b amp as rectifier? Or are they not worth it sound wise?
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5z3.html
  
 Thanks!


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Glenn, would it be possible to use the 5Z3 tube in your/my 300b amp as rectifier? Or are they not worth it sound wise?
> 
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5z3.html
> 
> Thanks!


 

 It will be OK to use they are Identical to a 5U4G with a 4 pin base you will need a adapter.
 Will it sound better don't know according to the tube you get.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> It will be OK to use they are Identical to a 5U4G with a 4 pin base you will need a adapter.
> Will it sound better don't know according to the tube you get.


 
  
 Glenn made me that adapter 4 years ago. I've purchased several of those 5Z3 tubes stashed away somewhere and have forgotten which ones I have. The 5Z3 does look a bit strange sitting on an adapter when next to other tubes (not on adapters). At least on my WA22.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hi. I'll be in Hawaii on Thursday. I'm visiting my mother. She is getting on in years and I'll be there to keep her company and make her remember all of the good things I did as a son! (That's a chore in itself). I'm staying at a hotel across from the Honolulu Zoo--my favorite park to contemplate my next amp and plate lunch from a grand old food truck while communicated with the monkeys. My flight takes off at around 9 AM. So wave bye-bye if I fly over your house. Well, okay. If I fly over your yacht!
> 
> Aloha--I'll report back from Hawaii when I get there. I'll be there for 5 days.


 
  
 Have a great time!
 Enjoy your stay!
  


ultrainferno said:


> Glenn, would it be possible to use the 5Z3 tube in your/my 300b amp as rectifier? Or are they not worth it sound wise?
> 
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5z3.html
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
  
 You can get a nice variety of 5Z3 not made in octal base.
 One of my amps uses them so I have some already.
 And you can used them instead of 5UG4's using an adapter.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Aloha--I'll report back from Hawaii when I get there. I'll be there for 5 days.


 
 Aloha Clayton.
 Have a fantastic trip and eat lots of malasadas.
 Let me know if you need me to water your plants or feed your amps...


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Aloha Clayton.
> Have a fantastic trip and eat lots of malasadas.
> Let me know if you need me to water your plants or feed your amps...


 

 I've taken inventory.
  
 Aloha and mahalo.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> I've taken inventory.


 
 You have more amps than fingers and toes!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Here I am beating myself up because I thought having 3 amps was too much.  
  
 I decided to pick up some Russian 6H5C so I could finally say I knew what they sounded like.  I'm not a big fan of their tone, but they aren't any less resolving than an RCA 6AS7 to my ears.  I ran them at 120mA for a bit using the 5998 switch and found that to be a wash at best.  It sharpens them up and tightens up bass and leading edges, but the whole upper range takes on a strained and reedy sound that is not very appealing.  If I couldn't run 5998s I would rather run some Chatham 6080 or 6AS7 at the lower plate current than these tubes in either mode, but they're alright to have around as backups I suppose.
  
 One thing I will give them credit for, they are nice and quiet just like others have noted.  Even at the higher current they don't complain.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I always had the idea I had a lot of desktop amps. That was till I met Clayton and Stavros. But I can't complain


----------



## whirlwind

parbaked said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > I've taken inventory.
> ...


 
 Ain't that the truth!
  
 Every time I see a post where Clayton shows a picture of his gear......I just stare, with my mouth wide open.....it is just incredible.


----------



## gibosi

The Brimar 5Z4G is said to be a very good rectifier. However, with an output of only 125ma, it cannot provide enough current for use in Glenn's OTL. But I have been wondering...  Would it be possible to build an adapter to allow the use of two of these in order to bring the output current up to 250ma?


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> Aloha Clayton.
> Have a fantastic trip and eat lots of malasadas.
> Let me know if you need me to water your plants or feed your amps...


 
  
  


clayton sf said:


> I've taken inventory.
> 
> Aloha and mahalo.


 

 Can I be of some help Steven?
  
 Forget Clayton's inventory we'll find a way..........


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Can I be of some help Steven?
> 
> Forget Clayton's inventory we'll find a way..........


 
 Hi Stavros,
 Please help select which amps to "borrow".
 We can't fit them ALL in my Mini Cooper, especially if the girls are in the back seat!
  
 I am not worried about Clayton's inventory.
 He won't mind if we leave some of these:
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## rosgr63

Steven you are such a good friend.
  
 Can we take Glenn along?
 Mind there'll be no cookies left, only some tubes, caps etc..............


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Can we take Glenn along?
> Mind there'll be no cookies left, only some tubes, caps etc..............


 
 That's a great idea...we can leave an IOU for the cookies we eat!


----------



## rosgr63

I've been banned for eating too many Easter sweets and cakes, SF is out of bounds so I'll be good to start all over again.
  
 Please don't post any more photos........


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I've been banned for eating too many Easter sweets and cakes, SF is out of bounds so I'll be good to start all over again.
> 
> Please don't post any more photos........


 

 Are you allowed over your Mama's house.


----------



## Neogeo333

rosgr63 said:


> I've been banned for eating too many Easter sweets and cakes, SF is out of bounds so I'll be good to start all over again.
> 
> Please don't post any more photos........


 
 Pick any 2 you like.


----------



## 2359glenn

Your mean George


----------



## rosgr63

George.........I thought you were my friend.
  
 Glenn I am banned, I have nowhere to hide, please help.


----------



## 2359glenn

I need to come there cheese pies and better yet Mama's cooking.
 Thinking about it got me starving.


----------



## rosgr63

Yes, then I'll be able to steal some, I need you as my excuse!


----------



## Neogeo333

2359glenn said:


> I need to come there cheese pies and better yet Mama's cooking.
> Thinking about it got me starving.


 
 I want some of that, this green diet is worst than I expected.


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> I want some of that, this green diet is worst than I expected.


 
 I'm so sorry to hear that George.
 When I saw you getting donuts delivered again I thought you were fully recovered....
 Get well soon!


----------



## Neogeo333

I was recovered after the 3rd day at the hospital, the stone already passed through the gallbladder duct and all test came back negative. But them money hungry staff would not discharge me. Saying it was safer to do other test as a precaution. BS, they figured I didn't have insurance and try to stick it. Stuck there for 6 days. Thank God for social worker that helped me a lot. 

We need to post more donuts friendly neighbors to distrac Stavros.


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> We need to post more donuts friendly neighbors to distrac Stavros.


 
 I think Satvros will have trouble sleeping tonight.
 There was WAY too much sugar in those donuts!


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> I think Satvros will have trouble sleeping tonight.
> There was WAY too much sugar in those donuts!


 
  
 That's right Steven, I stole the last profiterole that was for my niece and I got very wrong.
 It was ever so delicious.
  


moatsart said:


> Apologies for the meltdown - I have not been feeling well.
> 
> New name for my OTL - "Phoebe" from the feminine form of classical Greek "φοιβος", which means "pure, radiant"


 
  
 Hi Nathan, don't worry we are here to help.
 I like Phoebe more.
 It's feminine and it has a great sound when you say the word.
  
 Reminds me of a sexy girl I used to know sometime ago called Phoebe.


----------



## Clayton SF

Behave! I'm having breakfast in a sports bar in Waikiki. Isn't that right, Steven?


----------



## rosgr63

Enjoy Clayton!!!!!!


----------



## gibosi

It appears that my earlier post got buried under all this talk of food and stealing (borrowing?) amps... lol 
  
 So I will try again:
  
 The Brimar 5Z4G is said to be a very good rectifier. However, with an output of only 125ma, it cannot provide enough current for use in Glenn's OTL. But I have been wondering...  Would it be possible to build an adapter to allow the use of two of these in order to bring the output current up to 250ma?
  
 Is this feasible? Or just nuts?


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Behave! I'm having breakfast in a sports bar in Waikiki. Isn't that right, Steven?


 
 Clayton's drinking at breakfast...he must miss me!
 Have fun Clayton!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> It appears that my earlier post got buried under all this talk of food and stealing (borrowing?) amps... lol
> 
> So I will try again:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah tube talk is usually secondary to food talk.  It's the reason I didn't talk here for a long time, I'm not a foodie and I felt like I was talking to myself when I would talk tubes.
  
 I think the big question here is, is the 5Z4G enough of an improvement over other options to justify going to the trouble even if it is possible?  I would wager a no personally, but that's only my own opinion.  Plus, even two of them together are still basically maxed out in an OTL.  For example if you took Soviet tubes and ran them at the 5998 setting you have a 260mA B+ draw. 
  
 Heater current would likely not be an issue, but getting the same voltage to each rectifier would be the trick.  Maybe split it and use a doubler inside the adapter?  Plus the rectifiers might not heat up and both start conducting at exactly the same time, this could cause issues during startup of the amp.


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> I've been banned for eating too many Easter sweets and cakes.


 
 I am on a low carb diet too Stavros.
 I'm not consuming any carbs except for pizza and booze....ok, and rice...and pasta...


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> Heater current would likely not be an issue, but getting the same voltage to each rectifier would be the trick.  Maybe split it and use a doubler inside the adapter?  Plus the rectifiers might not heat up and both start conducting at exactly the same time, this could cause issues during startup of the amp.


 
  
 Thanks for the thoughtful reply. So while it might be possible, a custom adapter could be rather expensive. And as I too doubt that the 5Z4G is enough of an improvement to justify an expensive adapter, I think I can easily live without it. 
  
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
 On another topic, has anyone removed an octal bakelite tube-base in order to check for loose connections and/or repair such?
  
 I was able to find the following article:
  
 http://www.nostalgiaair.org/References/Articles/TheFlash/Flash08.htm
  
 I've got a 6F8G that works fine if I apply pressure from the top. But as soon as I remove my hand from the top grid-cap connector, the heaters quit working. Perhaps a loose connection in the base? As this is an inexpensive Sylvania, it occurs to me it might a good tube to learn how to do this procedure.
  
 If anyone is aware of any other tips and tricks I would be grateful.


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## longbowbbs

parbaked said:


> rosgr63 said:
> 
> 
> > I've been banned for eating too many Easter sweets and cakes.
> ...


 
 I keep the pizza box on the floor for my low carb diet....


----------



## parbaked

longbowbbs said:


> I keep the pizza box on the floor for my low carb diet....


 
 That's brilliant...from now on I'm eating my pizza in the basement!


----------



## rosgr63

gibosi said:


> Thanks for the thoughtful reply. So while it might be possible, a custom adapter could be rather expensive. And as I too doubt that the 5Z4G is enough of an improvement to justify an expensive adapter, I think I can easily live without it.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, it was discussed in the 6SN7 tube addicts thread.
 Just be careful you don't damage the connectors which could be partially oxidised and fall apart.
  
 The safest is ti remove/suck out the solder from the pins and run fresh solder again without removing the base.
  
 An easier solution is to run a hot solder iron tip along the pins to remelt the solder.
  
 A fourth solution is to send the tube to tube repairer to rebase it for you.
  
 Back to pizza again..............


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Back to pizza again..............


 

 Pizzahacker's "Shortbridge Pizza" - named for their friendly competitor Longbridge Pizzeria
 Sopressata, house-made sausage, mushrooms, Bianco/DiNapoli tomato sauce, fresh house-stretched mozzarella, oregano & Grana Padano


----------



## Oskari

parbaked said:


> Pizzahacker's "Shortbridge Pizza" - named for their friendly competitor Longbridge Pizzeria
> Sopressata, house-made sausage, mushrooms, Bianco/DiNapoli tomato sauce, fresh house-stretched mozzarella, oregano & Grana Padano


 
  
 Bloody fecking marvellous! I just ate some bratwurst and now I want pizza!


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > Heater current would likely not be an issue, but getting the same voltage to each rectifier would be the trick.  Maybe split it and use a doubler inside the adapter?  Plus the rectifiers might not heat up and both start conducting at exactly the same time, this could cause issues during startup of the amp.
> ...


 

 Don't take the base off just get a very hot soldering iron and re solder the pins if the filament is the problem
 Just try re soldering pins 2&7


----------



## Oskari

Found this:
  

  
 Pizza doesn't seem quite that important anymore...


----------



## parbaked

Clayton sent me a pic of him and his mom...really sweet!
 He's having a good time...


----------



## parbaked

oskari said:


> Pizza doesn't seem quite that important anymore...


 
 Ms Pausini looks like a nice Italian woman who'd enjoy a good pizza!
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Neogeo333

wish I could understand Italian but her Spanish songs are great too.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Don't take the base off just get a very hot soldering iron and re solder the pins if the filament is the problem
> Just try re soldering pins 2&7


 
  
 Thanks guys! For sure, it makes sense to try this first. And I hope it works!


----------



## rosgr63

If you ever remove a base and the electrodes get cut off far from the glass base you can still solder on to them extensions.
 If they get cut off flush there's nothing you can do.
  
 I like Laura and both of her two big hits.


----------



## Oskari

I see what you did there.


----------



## rosgr63

I know I am bad Oskari but please don't tell..........


----------



## Neogeo333

If anyone knows Russian please translate.   
 I'm guessing it's for mail order bride advertising and now we know who's the one behind it.


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> If anyone knows Russian please translate.
> I'm guessing it's for mail order bride advertising and now we know who's the one behind it.


 

 I should have known he was up to something!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## rosgr63

neogeo333 said:


> If anyone knows Russian please translate.
> I'm guessing it's for mail order bride advertising and now we know who's the one behind it.


 
 Вы готовы для удовольствия?
  
 Если вы хотите хорошо провести время, пожалуйста, присоединиться ко мне!!!
  
*PS I hope Sergei is not reading this................*


----------



## rosgr63

George just to get in the mood: NU VT-99/RCA 6AS7G/Grado RS1 playing Bananarama-Megarama via Fidelia.


----------



## Oskari

neogeo333 said:


> If anyone knows Russian please translate.
> I'm guessing it's for mail order bride advertising and now we know who's the one behind it.


 
  
 There is one word I recognise there: пиво 'beer'.
  
 Beer & brides?


----------



## gibosi

Sorry to intrude... no beer.. no pizza... only tubes....  C3g 
  

  
  
 With about 60 hours on each of these, I can say that the Siemens and Lorenz are definitely different. Moreover, based on the construction differences, which can be seen here
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/9510#post_11496566
  
 I am reasonably convinced that they were in fact manufactured by different companies in different factories. 
  
 Before I had my Glenn OTL, I rolled C3g and various double triodes, such as 6SN7, in a Little Dot 1+, using simple pin-adapters. As this amp was designed to use triode-strapped 6AK5 pentodes, it is likely that the bias was not correct for the C3g, and it was definitely not correct for the 6SN7. Nonetheless, I believed that the Little Dot was able to convey some sense of the basic sonic signature of these tubes, even if they were not sounding up to their full potential. 
  
 In the LD, I found the Siemens C3g to be a bit too bright for my taste compared to my favorite 6SN7, such as the TS RPBG and the Sylvania 6SN7W. The tonal balance just wasn't right for me. But I wondered how much of this might be attributable to improper biasing. So when I approached Glenn about an OTL, I asked if he could add a couple loctal sockets and associated circuitry so that I could roll C3g as well as 6SN7. I wanted to be able hear both of these tubes correctly and properly biased, in order to better understand their sound.
  
 Now that I have the Glenn, I can say that the Siemens C3g sounds better, but it is still too bright for my taste. And the 6SN7s sound much, much better. So I have been finding myself preferring the tonal balance of the 6SN7 over the superior resolution of the C3g. However, with the arrival of the Lorenz this has changed in a major way. The Lorenz are not as bright as the Siemens. To my way of thinking, the treble is smoother. And since the Lorenz are less bright, I instinctively turn the volume up a tad bit to achieve the same listening level. This in turn brings the level of the mids and bass up, making them a bit more prominent in the mix. And now I  have a C3g with a tonal balance similar to my favorite 6SN7s which makes this tube a winner. I have not wanted to pull the Lorenz out in favor of any of my double triodes. They are firmly entrenched as the tubes to beat. 
  
 I should say that I have HD700s, and at this time, the amp is outfitted with a Mullard GZ32 and a pair of GEC 6080. And of course, everyone has a different system -- different ears, different gear and different headphones and/or speakers. But still, it is great to have a choice. One or the other of these, the Siemens or the Lorenz, will likely be a winner in any given system.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for the update with the very valuable info
Have you ever tried the 310 pentodes?


----------



## gibosi

Can't say that I've even heard of the 310 before. And after a quick search on eBay, it seems these are pretty expensive...
  
 Anyway, I would need two... even more expensive. The 10 volt / 0.3 amp heaters are not a problem. But I would have to build an adapter to convert the 6-pin base and grid cap to 7-pin miniature and strap them into triodes. Is this how people use them? As strapped triodes? A quick search of Google didn't turn up anything regarding their use as triodes....  
  
 It's certainly doable, but maybe not worth the trouble and expense just to run them in a cheap Little Dot?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Just dropping in! The Glenn 300b says hi.


----------



## rosgr63

You can strap them as triodes, and the ones made by WE are not bad.
  
 You can find cheaper STC or Philips versions or even their 328 cousins at 7.5V.
  
 I have been using both types  for sometime now.
  
 Your set up looks very sexy Lieven with them things on the top..............


----------



## whirlwind

Added to my notes, gibosi 
  
 I am getting older and have to write everything down, or else I will forget


----------



## Eee Pee

You should see gibosi's notepad!  Nevermind it's all in Japanese...


----------



## gibosi

lol... not all in Japanese... just a little...  本の少し


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> Added to my notes, gibosi
> 
> I am getting older and have to write everything down, or else I will forget


 

 Wiser, not older just wiser!!!!!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

rosgr63 said:


> Wiser, not older just wiser!!!!!!!


 
  
 Why isn't it working that way for me then?


----------



## rosgr63

Admitting it doesn't Tyrell shows that it works for you too my young knowledgeable friend.


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> Wiser, not older just wiser!!!!!!!


 
 Stavros...M said I am getting older and fatter...not wiser....


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Added to my notes, gibosi
> ...


 
 Ha!
  
 My wife would disagree with that statement 
  
 She would tell me that there is no way that I would remember where I put the list


----------



## Xcalibur255

My KenRad 1633 suddenly went bad tonight.  Very nasty static in the left channel.  The pins are cleaner than a new tube's so it can't be that.  What a shame, it was a really nice sounding tube.
  
 I'm in the midst of a renewed tube rolling interest with the OTL lately, trying combinations I haven't before.  I'm really starting to see I was too stubborn about keeping the 5998s in the amp all the time.  I was always convinced they were the most detailed and transparent, but there are clearly situations where that isn't really the case.  The Beyers sound a lot better with 6080 and 6AS7 and I'm finally actually enjoying these cans.  Mullard ECC32 and TungSol/Chatham 6520 is current combo and it sounds quite nice.  Very tubey sounding compared to the "just the truth and nothing else" presentation of 45s, but it's a nice indulgence every once in a while.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> My KenRad 1633 suddenly went bad tonight.  Very nasty static in the left channel.  The pins are cleaner than a new tube's so it can't be that.  What a shame, it was a really nice sounding tube.
> 
> I'm in the midst of a renewed tube rolling interest with the OTL lately, trying combinations I haven't before.  I'm really starting to see I was too stubborn about keeping the 5998s in the amp all the time.  I was always convinced they were the most detailed and transparent, but there are clearly situations where that isn't really the case.  The Beyers sound a lot better with 6080 and 6AS7 and I'm finally actually enjoying these cans.  Mullard ECC32 and TungSol/Chatham 6520 is current combo and it sounds quite nice.  Very tubey sounding compared to the "just the truth and nothing else" presentation of 45s, but it's a nice indulgence every once in a while.


 
 I can send you a 1940s RCA smoked glass 1633 don't know if it sounds as good as a KenRad though.
 But the 1940s smoked glass 6SN7s are good sounding tubes and the 1633 is allot cheaper and the same tube with a 25 volt heater.


----------



## Ultrainferno

1633 tubes go for 4€ here


----------



## 2359glenn

I can get them in the US for $4 and they are the same as the 6SN7 going for $100. If your amp can supply the 25 volt heater voltage they are a great deal.
 I used to make a adapter with a voltage quadruple that went from 6.3 to 25.2 but they were a PITA to build.


----------



## Clayton SF

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, STEVEN!!!
  
 I baked you a cake but ate it all this morning so we'll have find something to do later this weekend. Just to be bad boys in a good way (no way!).


----------



## whirlwind

Ha ha...Clayton...that is awesome!


----------



## gibosi

As some of you might remember, upon receipt of my C3g/SN7 Glenn OTL, I was very disappointed that none of my 5998s were quiet enough to run in the enhanced 5998 mode. As it now turns out, this may not have been entirely true.
  
 Recently, I have been running my quietest pair of 5998s in the 6AS7 mode, drive by Lorenz C3gs, and this has been very acceptable in terms of noise and SQ. But in yesterday's mail, I received a Philips E182CC, and so of course, I wanted to make sure it was OK. Plus the other day, I dropped a Telefunken 6463 on the floor and wanted to make sure it hadn't been damaged. After popping in the E182CC, I noticed that the 5998s sounded much quieter than before. And on a whim, I switched to the enhanced 5998 mode, and they were still very decently quiet! Putting in the 6463, they were still quiet! And then, going back to the C3gs, not so quiet, the hum increased noticeably... 
  
 So it now appears that the C3g cause the 5998s to be a bit noisier. And this is likely true with all my output tubes, but I have yet to test this thoroughly. However, a little while ago, Glenn posted that from now on, all his OTL's would have the better transformer, so my OTL, with the original transformer and C3g, may be the only one of its kind, and this information may not be all that useful to others, but still, I thought I should share it.
  
 PS: The E182CC and 6463 sound terrific driving the 5998s in enhanced mode.


----------



## Neogeo333

I dont know the Mu for the both e182cc and c3g but it could play a role in the hum noise.  Could it be the Mu of the c3g is that much higher?  Does this happen when using very efficient phones like Audio Techinicas or Denons?  Does the hum happens with planar phones too?


----------



## gibosi

The 6463 and 6SN7 both have a mu of 20, the E182CC/7119 has a mu of 24 and a triode-strapped C3g has a mu of about 40. So yes, there is a big difference in gain, and I wonder if that is the reason, but I certainly do not know...
  
 I have only the HD-700 and the HE-300 (only 50 ohms, so haven't even tried using it with the OTL). Unfortunately, I do not own or have access to any other phones such as the Audio Technica, Denons or planars....


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> As some of you might remember, upon receipt of my C3g/SN7 Glenn OTL, I was very disappointed that none of my 5998s were quiet enough to run in the enhanced 5998 mode. As it now turns out, this may not have been be entirely true.
> 
> Recently, I have been running my quietest pair of 5998s in the 6AS7 mode, drive by Lorenz C3gs, and this has been very acceptable in terms of noise and SQ. But in yesterday's mail, I received a Philips E182CC, and so of course, I wanted to make sure it was OK. Plus the other day, I dropped a Telefunken 6463 on the floor and wanted to make sure it hadn't been damaged. After popping in the E182CC, I noticed that the 5998s sounded much quieter than before. And on a whim, I switched to the enhanced 5998 mode, and they were still very decently quiet! Putting in the 6463, they were still quiet! And then, going back to the C3gs, not so quiet, the hum increased noticeably...
> 
> ...


 

 Yes all the new OTLs will have the new transformer but at a big price increase. It costs me 3X the price.
 And all future OTLs that is capable to use the C3g the filament will run on DC. This was the first OTL
 that was capable of using the C3g I only used it in 300B amps before this. And I do things different
 in the 300B amps as they are much more expensive.
 I have been trying to Keep the OTL as low cost as possible so people can afford a great sounding
 amp for $650. And the new transformer alone will cost 1/2 of that.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Dang, that's a pretty good price.  Can't build an amp doing myself for $650.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> Yes all the new OTLs will have the new transformer but at a big price increase. It costs me 3X the price.
> And all future OTLs that is capable to use the C3g the filament will run on DC. This was the first OTL
> that was capable of using the C3g I only used it in 300B amps before this. And I do things different
> in the 300B amps as they are much more expensive.
> ...


 
 So how much will the new OTL will be now? (if you don't mind of course... so I know how much to save.)


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> So how much will the new OTL will be now? (if you don't mind of course... so I know how much to save.)


 
  
 My best guess, but again, only a guess....
  
 Since the new transformer costs roughly half the original base price of $650, you should probably budget $1000 for the base price of the new model. And then, if you want the 6/12/25 switch, the enhanced 5998 switch, and the ability to use the C3g, add another several hundred dollars more. But again, this is just a guess. I suggest you send a PM to Glenn, indicating the features you desire, and request a quote.


----------



## gibosi

And I wish to emphasize that I am thrilled to discover that my 5998s are not as bad as I had previously thought and that I can now use them in enhanced mode with medium-mu double triodes.


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> My best guess, but again, only a guess....
> 
> Since the new transformer costs roughly half the original base price of $650, you should probably budget $1000 for the base price of the new model. And then, if you want the 6/12/25 switch, the enhanced 5998 switch, and the ability to use the C3g, add another several hundred dollars more. But again, this is just a guess. I suggest you send a PM to Glenn, indicating the features you desire, and request a quote.


 
 Many thanks gibosi. That gives me the ballpark. For my benefit (and perhaps for other readers as well), what is the cheapest configuration that will suit the HD800 well? Or will a 300B amp be the better option?


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> Many thanks gibosi. That gives me the ballpark. For my benefit (and perhaps for other readers as well), what is the cheapest configuration that will suit the HD800 well? Or will a 300B amp be the better option?


 
  
 The base configuration is very well suited for the HD800. The add-ons don't make it better in that regard. As to whether the 300B is better, I will have to leave that question for others to answer.


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > My best guess, but again, only a guess....
> ...


 

 The 300B is better for low impedance phones planners or use with speakers as well as headphones.
 But with the high quality Lundahl transformers  for power and outputs gold point stepped attenuator it is about $2.5K.
 Quite a bit more then the OTL this is from the expensive output transformers.


----------



## whirlwind

These beauties just arrived today, from a long journey from Italy
  

  

  
 Glenn....make sure you make me an adapter so I can enjoy the goodness


----------



## lukeap69

Thanks gibosi and Glenn! Now I know what to save for... Cheers


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> These beauties just arrived today, from a long journey from Italy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They have done allot of traveling.
 OK I will make you a 6F8 adapter.


----------



## Xcalibur255

What about moving to a lower gain driver stage to control noise?  Design the driver stage for 6BL7 or 6BX7 this could bring the noise floor down without having to double the price of the amp from using exotic parts.
  
 I thought the 5687 sounded good in the amp too, I think the mu on that tube is only 16.


----------



## parbaked

Tequila brunch with Clayton...lots of guacamole for vitamins!


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> What about moving to a lower gain driver stage to control noise?  Design the driver stage for 6BL7 or 6BX7 this could bring the noise floor down without having to double the price of the amp from using exotic parts.
> 
> I thought the 5687 sounded good in the amp too, I think the mu on that tube is only 16.


 

 The C3g might have to much gain for a OTL. In a amp with a output transformer any noise
 from the high gain will be reduced by the ratio of the output transformer.
 I a OTL what is there is right to the output.
 Another tube is a 6AH7 round plate with a gain of 16. I think I gave you a adapter for these
 I don't remember how they sound.
 The circuit is not right to stick a 6BL7 in there he can try it the worst it won't sound good.
 Parallel 6BL7 sound great as outputs puts all 6AS7 types to shame.


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> Tequila brunch with Clayton...lots of guacamole for vitamins!


 
 I had guacamole and chips for lunch but no Tequila
 I am going to have to go to CA and hang with you guys you have to much fun.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> I am going to have to go to CA and hang with you guys you have to much fun.


 
 Doooiiiitt!!
  
 We found a new dive bar after.
 Bartender is a big time vinyl collector.
 He liked Clayton so much that our tab was only$12...for 4 martinis!


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> The C3g might have to much gain for a OTL....


 
  
 As the Little Dot uses 6SL7s and 6080/6AS7, how is it that a gain of 60 isn't too high in that amp? 
  
 Anyway, I can say that most of the 6080s are very quiet with the C3g, especially the slotted Bendix 6080, which is my current favorite. But the primary reason I wanted this amp is to roll lots of tubes, in addition to SN7 and C3g. As I have mentioned before, I am rolling 5687, 6350, 6463, ECC40, E80CC/6085, E182CC/7119, E88CC/6922/6N23P, BL63/VR102 and even some of the sub-miniatures. And as these are all medium-mu double triodes, they all sound great with almost every output tube.
  
 Again, I am very pleased with this amp. And it's kind of neat to have a one-of-kind, the only OTL with the original transformer and the C3g, a "prototype" if you will.... I feel very lucky to have it. 
  
 A Sylvania sub-miniature very crudely stuffed into an octal base


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The C3g might have to much gain for a OTL....
> ...


 

 You tried all those tubes?
 There are lots of them out there with that power transformer. I still have one of those transformers left to go in a amp


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> You tried all those tubes?


 
  
 Yep, and I can verify that they all sound very good in your amp. The appropriate pin-adapters are cheap and there are some very nice alternatives to SN7 out there.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> The C3g might have to much gain for a OTL. In a amp with a output transformer any noise
> from the high gain will be reduced by the ratio of the output transformer.
> I a OTL what is there is right to the output.
> Another tube is a 6AH7 round plate with a gain of 16. I think I gave you a adapter for these
> ...


 
  
 I mean actually design the circuit specifically for the 6BX7.  This tube or the 5687 might work well in an optimized circuit.  I thought it sounded pretty good running on a 6SN7s values even.  These tubes are cheaper than the "best" 6SN7s too.
  
 I've come to believe it's really not wise to judge a tube running in a circuit that wasn't actually designed specifically for it.
  
 I recall not liking the sound of the 6AH7 very much.  I can try it again.  Maybe the same feeling as above applies here too.  If the circuit were designed for it maybe it would sound good.  Lots of what ifs, but there might be a very successful combination out there waiting to be discovered still.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Yep, and I can verify that they all sound very good in your amp. The appropriate pin-adapters are cheap and there are some very nice alternatives to SN7 out there.


 

 7119 is a variant of the 5687 if I recall correctly, and there are a couple of other close variants also.  I like the 5687 the most out of that particular family of tubes because it has the lowest gain.  These are tubes from the Apollo space era, much better distortion and overall performance compared to stuff like the 12AX7.  I'm really confused why they are not used in more designs.


----------



## rnadell

I have been using the GEC 6080's and one just gave up
 the ghost and not even a year old. Anyway just wondering
 what to do with the existing tube that is still good? I really
 liked the sound of these tubes but I just don't know how to
 proceed. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## Xcalibur255

Buy a single replacement tube and continue to use the other good one.  If the original pair tested strong than any reasonable strong tube will work fine with it, it won't have lost that much emission in a single year of use.
  
 When my 5998 shorted (taking my headphones with it) Glenn got me a new single tube and I just plopped it in and couldn't tell the difference.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> 7119 is a variant of the 5687 if I recall correctly, and there are a couple of other close variants also.  I like the 5687 the most out of that particular family of tubes because it has the lowest gain.  These are tubes from the Apollo space era, much better distortion and overall performance compared to stuff like the 12AX7.  I'm really confused why they are not used in more designs.


 
  
 The 5687, 6900, 7044 and 7119/E182CC all share the same pin-out and were all developed to meet rather severe operating conditions often found in industrial/military operating environments. As such they were not typically used in the consumer market. But other than this, I am not sure how closely these tubes are related.
  
 The 5687 has a gain of about 16, the 6900, a gain of about 18.5, the 7044, a gain of 21, and the 7119, a gain of 24. 
  
 Used in the 6.3 volt mode (excepting the 6900, these can also be used in 12.6 volt circuits) the 6900 heaters draw 1.0 amp and the 5687 and 7044, 0.9 amp, so these are hot little guys. On the other hand, the 7119 draws 0.64 amps, similar to a 6SN7.
  
 The 6900 was manufactured only by Bendix and given their rarity and supposed durability, these often go for several hundred dollars each, and thus, I do not have one, and likely never will.
  
 The 7119/E182CC was manufactured only by Philips, primarily in their Heerlen, Holland, factory. In the early 1970s, production was shifted to the Amperex factory in Hicksville, NY. Based on the nomenclature, some speculate that this tube was conceived and designed to be an ultra premium, 10,000-hour 12AU7/ECC82. For example, the 7308/E188CC is an ultra premium 6DJ8/ECC88. While this seems to makes sense, I do not know if it is true.
  
 As best as I have been able to tell, the 7044 was manufactured only by Sylvania, GE and RCA.
  
 The 5687 has the most variety, manufactured by Tung-Sol, RCA, Sylvania, GE and Raytheon in the the US, and Thompson CSF in France.
  
 In my Little Dot, I didn't much care for the 7044, but can no longer remember exactly why. Of the 5687, I preferred the Sylvania. But of all, I liked the 7119 best, especially the New York tube.
  
 To date, I have rolled the 7119 and the Sylvania 5687 in the Glenn OTL for a short time, and my feeling is these tubes sound much, much better than in the LD. But of course, the operating points in the LD are much less optimal. Anyway, it will take some time to roll through all these tubes again to figure out how I might rank them....
  
 I hope someone finds this useful and interesting. Even though the Glenn OTL was not specifically designed to use these tubes, they perform quite well, and in my opinion, are very worthy alternatives to the SN7 and the C3g.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi all! I am returning to Amsterdam in August! I can't wait to see my ULTRA-Euro friends, let alone being kept behind bars (or in front of them) by the Dutch Police!


----------



## lukeap69

That police uniform looks quite 'casual'. But I guess police visibility is always a good thing, right?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Hey Glenn, what do you think of using a 6F6G running triode connected as the driver stage?  These tubes have nicer looking plate curves than most real triodes and they don't have a ton of gain.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Hi all! I am returning to Amsterdam in August! I can't wait to see my ULTRA-Euro friends, let alone being kept behind bars (or in front of them) by the Dutch Police!


 
  
 Can't wait!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Can't wait!


 
  
 SFO > DUB > AMS
  
 There is a 2-hour layover in Dublin (11:30 - 13:30). I wonder if that's enough time to have a few pints of good brew in Ireland? 
  
 Wait: This is not Dublin.


----------



## whirlwind

^  Great pic  ^


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Hey Glenn, what do you think of using a 6F6G running triode connected as the driver stage?  These tubes have nicer looking plate curves than most real triodes and they don't have a ton of gain.


 

 I have never tried the 6F6G it might be good if it is not noisy and micro phonic.  I tried using a 6V6 for the cathode follower
 on the output of my #26 preamp. Sounded good but noisy and micro phonic as hell. tried several tubes they all were no
 good for this application even though this stage has no gain. So I switched to a 6BL7 and I only had to use one tube.
 I will try to do something with the 6F6 when I have time think I have several of them most metal tubes though.


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> Hi all! I am returning to Amsterdam in August! I can't wait to see my ULTRA-Euro friends, let alone being kept behind bars (or in front of them) by the Dutch Police!


 
 My son is getting married in July when I usually go to Greece. So I won't be going this summer depressing.
 I love to go and see Stavros and family. Got to figure out how to get time off work so we can go.
 We have to try and meet up in Europe one of these times.


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *2359glenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My son is getting married in July when I usually go to Greece. So I won't be going this summer depressing.
> I love to go and see Stavros and family. Got to figure out how to get time off work so we can go.
> We have to try and meet up in Europe one of these times.


 
 "Go West, Young Man, Go West!"
  
 Congrats on your son's new direction. Can't wait for you to come out to Cali. Maybe even CanJam in L.A...


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> > Originally Posted by *2359glenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> > My son is getting married in July when I usually go to Greece. So I won't be going this summer depressing.
> > I love to go and see Stavros and family. Got to figure out how to get time off work so we can go.
> ...


 

 Yes it would be great to  see you guys in California


----------



## wotts

After CanJam this year, I can't imagine missing one. I'd love to meet everyone.


----------



## longbowbbs

wotts said:


> After CanJam this year, I can't imagine missing one. I'd love to meet everyone.


 
 CanJam was terrific! We need twice as much time between friends and gear!


----------



## Clayton SF

My flight path (the first two minutes) to Honolulu from San Francisco, shot on April 16, 2015. I thought of all of you because I forgot my headphones!
  
 My next trip is to The Netherlands to hook up with Ultra. Ultra-Uber Cool. Video will be forthcoming.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> 7119 is a variant of the 5687 if I recall correctly, and there are a couple of other close variants also.  I like the 5687 the most out of that particular family of tubes because it has the lowest gain.  These are tubes from the Apollo space era, much better distortion and overall performance compared to stuff like the 12AX7.  I'm really confused why they are not used in more designs.


 
  
 Can I assume that you prefer a lower gain because it should result in less noise? The reason I ask is that a BL63/VR102 has a gain of 12, and yet I don't find the noise level to be significantly different than a 6SN7 or a 5687. But of course, there may well be other factors involved.....


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Can I assume that you prefer a lower gain because it should result in less noise? The reason I ask is that a BL63/VR102 has a gain of 12, and yet I don't find the noise level to be significantly different than a 6SN7 or a 5687. But of course, there may well be other factors involved.....


 
  
 There are other factors, yes, which press the limits of my understanding.  Some tubes are just naturally quieter than others too.  The 6BL7 could make a really nice driver stage in the OTL, properly biased anyway, but I tried 5 of them and every single one was noisy so I gave up.  It and the 6BX7 are both lower gain than a 6SN7 is, the BX particularly so.


----------



## parbaked

It's been quiet in the Studio so Clayton and I had to go out and eat some pizza!
 This week it's Gialina in SF's Glenn Park neighborhood.

  
 We started with martinis at the dive next door.

  
 Margherita Pizza

  
 Wild nettles, pancetta, red onions, mushrooms and provolone

  
 Ahhhhhh......


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> It's been quiet in the Studio so Clayton and I had to go out and eat some pizza!
> This week it's Gialina in SF's Glenn Park neighborhood.
> 
> _*We started with martinis at the dive next door.*_


 
  
 The dive next door where, once again, I talked about selling all of my amps and using the profits to open a pizza parlor.
  

  
  
 ... and don't forget the Niman Pork Belly w/ soft polenta & long cooked chard.


----------



## Neogeo333

In Brighton Beach trying a fusion of Korean and Russian food.   It taste good but couldn't keep my eyes from the waitress.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Great mom and pop place.   Family operated.


----------



## Clayton SF

neogeo333 said:


> In Brighton Beach trying a fusion of Korean and Russian food.   It taste good but couldn't keep my eyes from the waitress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 All right--where is the photo of the waitress? Hmmm?


----------



## Neogeo333

Maybe next time when I'm not with the sister in law.


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> In Brighton Beach trying a fusion of Korean and Russian food.   It taste good but couldn't keep my eyes from the waitress.


 
  
  That looks great George.
 1. Was the waitress Korean/Russian?
 2. Was she really as hot as those noodles look??


----------



## Neogeo333

parbaked said:


> That looks great George.
> 1. Was the waitress Korean/Russian?
> 2. Was she really as hot as those noodles look??


 
 Try to imagine Mila Kunis but with a Korean look.   Black hair and petite build.   Funny thing was although they look Koreans they only speak Russian.   The place is Elza something food.   Forgot the full name.   Oh that soup was cold.   That's how they serve it.   The flat bread and roadkill chicken was the best.   Yes that's the name of the chicken.  I can still taste the butter and spices.  All you see on the table for 45.00.


----------



## buldogge

neogeo333 said:


> In Brighton Beach trying a fusion of Korean and Russian food.   It taste good but couldn't keep my eyes from the waitress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Man that looks great!...
  
 I did a quick search...Were you at Eddie's Fancy Foods/Cafe-at-your-Mother-in-Laws?  Gotta try that next time I visit my little brother in Brooklyn!
  
 -Mark in St. Louis


----------



## buldogge

Were you hot for the mom, or the daughter?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


 -Mark


----------



## Neogeo333

More like granddaughter.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The grandma was in the Bensonhurst place which I first went but there menu was very limited.   She actually told us to go to the Brighton Beach one and since she needed to move some things to that place she ordered a cab to pick us up along with her stuff and the ride was free.


----------



## buldogge

neogeo333 said:


> More like granddaughter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Pretty cool...Love those oddball restaurant experiences!
  
 -Mark


----------



## parbaked

jc9394 said:


> I need to get some Kachina...


 
 JC,
 We had lunch with Greg and Nancy at Kachina yesterday.
 Greg just released a new batch of sparkling Brut.
 It's not on the website yet but if you ask Nancy she'll ship you some.

 Of course you can also come visit and we'll go up and pick up a case!
 Cheers!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> JC,
> We had lunch with Greg and Nancy at Kachina yesterday.
> Greg just released a new batch of sparkling Brut.
> It's not on the website yet but if you ask Nancy she'll ship you some.
> ...


 
  
 Wow. Nice. Wish I could try some.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> Wow. Nice. Wish I could try some.


 
 M says we'll bring some over next time you cook us dinner!




  
 I wonder if we should LiPing tonight before dinner...


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> M says we'll bring some over next time you cook us dinner!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  I'm up for it. What time did you want to meet at LiPing? What time is dinner tonight?


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> It's been quiet in the Studio so Clayton and I had to go out and eat some pizza!
> This week it's Gialina in SF's Glenn Park neighborhood.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ooh...dat's sum good eatin' right there!!! There's somethin' 'bout Pizza that jus does it for me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Hey Glenn,
  
 For an amp that uses a 6SN7 in its output stage, could a 6B4G theoretically be substituted?  Or is going from twin to single triode there something that cannot be compensated for with just an adapter?
  
 Just curious.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Hey Glenn,
> 
> For an amp that uses a 6SN7 in its output stage, could a 6B4G theoretically be substituted?  Or is going from twin to single triode there something that cannot be compensated for with just an adapter?
> 
> Just curious.


 

 Hi Tyrell
 That really can't be done first only one triode not two and they are direct heated so each one will
 need it's own DC power supply for the filament.
 When I get time I want to build a amp that uses just two C3m 1.5 watts. Have all the parts want to
 build it and send it to you to play with.
 Just not much time work is killing me as of late Just got home 7:00pm yesterday 9:00pm,
  
 Glenn


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Hi Tyrell
> That really can't be done first only one triode not two and they are direct heated so each one will
> need it's own DC power supply for the filament.
> When I get time I want to build a amp that uses just two C3m 1.5 watts. Have all the parts want to
> ...


 
  
 I think this is a really good idea.  In pentode mode the tube has enough gain all by itself, and single stage means no caps or anything else in the signal path.  With really good transformers I bet it will sound amazing.
  
 Sorry to hear about the late hours.  Feels like everybody is working too hard lately.


----------



## wotts

xcalibur255 said:


> I think this is a really good idea.  In pentode mode the tube has enough gain all by itself, and single stage means no caps or anything else in the signal path.  With really good transformers I bet it will sound amazing.
> 
> Sorry to hear about the late hours. * Feels like everybody is working too hard lately*.


 
  
  
 +1
  
 Hope y'all are doing well.


----------



## Silent One

Two thoughts: With me _not_ working and _all_ my gear in storage, maybe Glenn could send me something experimental to play with; evaluate.


----------



## Shaffer

Stopped by to check out some of Glenn's amps and gained eight pounds.


----------



## Silent One

A couple of nights ago inside the storage unit, I reached for a single box stacked on the right, and two tall stacks of boxes to my left came crashing down. Out of view is many more tubes that shattered inside the hallway. 
  
 Luckily, my most valued tubes survived hitting the floor due to popcorn and bubble wrap...._whew!_


----------



## lukeap69

Heart attack!


----------



## Khragon

watch out for those mercury vapor tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

.....very sorry about that.
  
 Thank goodness for the popcorn & bubble wrap.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Horror


----------



## GrindingThud

Eek, so sorry for your loss...


----------



## gibosi

Terrible!   
  
 But out of the wreckage, maybe you can create a masterpiece or two? 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-Man-Hand-Made-Art-Lot-of-1-steampunk-art-2a3-45-12ax7-6l6-7591-6sn7-el84-/191581739523?


----------



## musicman59

silent one said:


> A couple of nights ago inside the storage unit, I reached for a single box stacked on the right, and two tall stacks of boxes to my left came crashing down. Out of view is many more tubes that shattered inside the hallway.
> 
> Luckily, my most valued tubes survived hitting the floor due to popcorn and bubble wrap...._whew!_


 
 This is a sad scene!!


----------



## longbowbbs

SO, that is an unhappy event! I hope you did not lose any of your most prized tunes....


----------



## wotts

My chest hurts seeing that, SO.


----------



## Silent One

How it all went down:
  
 I have 24 hour access and typically go late night or in the wee hours before sunrise. I was tired and simply not paying attention. Upon lowering the targeted box, I backed up and swung around tackling another stack and nearly fell (sigh).


----------



## Clayton SF

Sad sight, indeed. I've done that many times to my wine glasses.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Sad sight, indeed. I've done that many times to my wine glasses.


 
 Speaking of wine, the way I tackled those boxes you'd have thought I was drinking!


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Speaking of wine, the way I tackled those boxes you'd have thought I was drinking!


 
 Speaking of wine, I am glad you didn't break any of your stash of French bubbly....


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Speaking of wine, I am glad you didn't break any of your stash of French bubbly....


 





 Or Champagne flutes for that matter. Admittedly, I've always enjoyed the way glass sounds when it breaks. But it has to be under the right circumstance.
  
 It's Strawberry season so I'd best get on with the short-cake. Sometimes, I splash the juice made from the macerated berries and sugar for said short-cake, into the flute brunch style and yum-o!


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> It's Strawberry season so I'd best get on with the short-cake. Sometimes, I splash the juice made from the macerated berries and sugar for said short-cake, into the flute brunch style and yum-o!


 
 Not as fancy...but Clayton and I do know a guy who makes pint sized pomegranate Mimosas!

  
 I thought of you the other day. I scored this "The Incredible Jimmy Smith" CD...nice!


----------



## Silent One

@ parbaked


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Not as fancy...but Clayton and I do know a guy who makes pint sized pomegranate Mimosas!


 
  
 A mimosa served in an infinity glass, no doubt.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Sorry to hear about the mishap SO.  Setbacks seem to be part of the hobby.


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> Sorry to hear about the mishap SO.  Setbacks seem to be part of the hobby.


 
 Thanks. That my rig has been in storage for 6 months made going forward a lot easier.


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> I thought of you the other day. I scored this "The Incredible Jimmy Smith" CD...nice!


 

 I'm getting this one tonight.


----------



## Silent One

@ Clayton SF


----------



## 2359glenn

My latest build C3g > 300B with output transformers wound in 100% silver
 40 ohm output impedance.


----------



## Neogeo333

2359glenn said:


> My latest build C3g > 300B with output transformers wound in 100% silver
> 40 ohm output impedance.


 
 The days of waiting is coming to an end soon.


----------



## Khragon

Congrats.. !! looks beautiful.  I'm in line for one too .


----------



## Xcalibur255

Lovely as always.  The new transfo covers look good with those ammeters, it gives a nice retro vibe.


----------



## whirlwind

I bet that sounds lovely!


----------



## Clayton SF

What?
 Saw this on _*AudiogoN*_.


----------



## Khragon

Damn, 170w set! Haha


----------



## 2359glenn

Looks dangerous what voltage is that cooling plate cap at?


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Looks dangerous what voltage is that cooling plate cap at?


 
Design Features - Single Ended pure class A mono block power amplifier
 - only one voltage gain stage
 - power military grade type direct heated triode-GM100 (N.O.S.) - most powerfull triode globally ever produced for audio
 - DC coupled circuit (only output transformer on signal path)
 - CE comfortable regarding maximum DC operating voltage 
 - 170 W of pure class A @4ohms or @8ohms
 - zero global feedback configuration
 - high capacitance in power supply resulting to over 500joules of  energy storage
 - custom designed silent power transformer of 2000W encapsulated-low density
 - custom designed output transformer of 1000W encapsulated- last generation
 - full double zero feedback stabilisation of high voltage for driver tubes
 - 6N1P-EV military grade long life tube for driver purposes (N.O.S.)
 - bias with fully automatic-adjust (no any adjustment)
 - variable bias (two mode with 60W & 170W of output power-switch on front panel)
 - fully stabilised DC power to supply filament of output tube
 - balanced regulated DC power to supply filament for driver tubes
 - soft start to increase reliability and to prolong life
 - output  premium NEXTEGEN-WBT connectors
 - all modulated chassis with laminate 20mm thick front panel

 Technical SpecificationNameValueTypeSingle Ended Class "A"Power Output170 Watts @ 4 & 8 ohms; 1 kHzFrequency Response6 Hz to 80 kHz;Input impedance100 kohmsInput Sensitivity2.45 V RMS for full power outputGain27.50 dBRise Time5 microsecondsNoise105 dB below rated output "A" weightedPhase statusRegular ( 0 )Tube Complement1x 6N1P-EV, 1 x GM100 (all by military standard and N.O.S.)Power Requirement110 VAC or 220 VAC @ 50 to 60 Hz, max. 750 VADimensions11.8" (300 mm) wide ´ 30.3" (770 mm) deep ´ 14.2" (360 mm) highNET Weightapprox. 133 lbs (60 kg) unpacked / per pieceTOTAL Weightapprox. 332 lbs ( 150 kg) packed / total


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> What?
> Saw this on _*AudiogoN*_.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What $65,000...you promised me no amps over $50K!!!
  
  


2359glenn said:


> Looks dangerous what voltage is that cooling plate cap at?


 
 I quote from the AD:

_"NAT produced the most powerfull single ended (with Single tube) in the world called Magma New. It is called Magma, because the color of anode so real to vulkan's magma."_


----------



## Xcalibur255

845 or 211 can have 1,200 plate volts, all to produce less than 30 watts.  I don't even want to know what kind of voltage this beast is slinging around.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> What?
> Saw this on _*AudiogoN*_.




It is a Headphone Amp and Van De Graff generator in one!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Worth a gamble at this price, no?
  
 Mighty 596: http://www.ebay.com/itm/231570844723


----------



## wotts

Perhaps. If a 596 goes, what would be the down stream effect on say my Glenn OTL? I should know this by now...


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Worth a gamble at this price, no?
> 
> Mighty 596: http://www.ebay.com/itm/231570844723


 
  
 I see the price on the 596 has returned to earth once again.


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > Worth a gamble at this price, no?
> ...


 

 They really are no better than a 5U4GB I started selling the adapters and tubes when the WA-5 was blowing rectifiers.
 The 596 had a exact filament that allowed them to run the filaments in series. But other then looking cool it sounded no different
 than a 5U4GB that was able to run at 7000 volts. Craziness!


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> They really are no better than a 5U4GB I started selling the adapters and tubes when the WA-5 was blowing rectifiers.
> The 596 had a exact filament that allowed them to run the filaments in series. But other then looking cool it sounded no different
> than a 5U4GB that was able to run at 7000 volts. Craziness!


 
  
 Yes. You had me try out one one of your first adapters for the 596. Was that 3 years ago?


----------



## 2359glenn

4 years ago.
 I prefer TV damper diodes over any 5 volt rectifier if I have to use a 5volt rectifier it would be a GZ37


----------



## musicman59

clayton sf said:


> I see the price on the 596 has returned to earth once again.


 
 Not really they are still being sold between $100-$160 for a single tube...
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=596+tube&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=48188&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=13&_dmd=1&_ipg=100


----------



## 2359glenn

musicman59 said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > I see the price on the 596 has returned to earth once again.
> ...


 

 For a rectifier craziness


----------



## Neogeo333

Best pancakes in Brooklyn.   Morrocan scramble is good too.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey! Look what has opened up in Steven's neck of the woods. A Lowland Food & Drink establishment serving Belgian food and beers.
 http://www.belsf.com/#menu


----------



## Silent One

neogeo333 said:


> Best pancakes in Brooklyn.   Morrocan scramble is good too.


 
 Lived in B'klyn 4 a time. That plate got me hungry right now except...where's the Pure Canadian Maple Syrup?


----------



## Neogeo333

gotta watch my sugar level but still had some.  That little golden bottle on the left made the difference.


----------



## Silent One

neogeo333 said:


> gotta watch my sugar level but still had some.  That little golden bottle on the left made the difference.


 
 O! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hunger can really limit one's focus...


----------



## Clayton SF

Homemade pickled beets.


----------



## 2359glenn

Looks good Think I got you started on those Beats.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Looks good Think I got you started on those Beats.


 
 You sent me a nice jar of pickled baby beets. The were fantastic. Where did you get them from?


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Looks good Think I got you started on those Beats.
> ...


 

 I got them in South Carolina Have to think of the Name I think they have a Web site and they can be ordered and shipped.
 They are wonderful a lot of people don't like beats.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> I got them in South Carolina Have to think of the Name I think they have a Web site and they can be ordered and shipped.
> They are wonderful a lot of people don't like _*beats*_.


 
  
 I know. I prefer Beyers over Beats!


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> I know. I prefer Beyers over Beats!


 
 Do Beets stain your ears?


----------



## Clayton SF

What in the world is going on here and why?
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/529140/show-us-your-head-fi-station-at-its-current-state-no-old-pictures-please/20040#post_11644239


----------



## buldogge

clayton sf said:


> What in the world is going on here and why?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/529140/show-us-your-head-fi-station-at-its-current-state-no-old-pictures-please/20040#post_11644239


 

 Are you referring to the adapters?
  
 C3G drivers and 6SN7 powers...I run the same set-up (DIY adapters) on both my LD MK II and MK III.
  
 Why?  Really provides a nice sounding amp a a really low entry point $$$ wise.
  
 I bought my MK III with a bad pot, swapped to a stepped DACT unit off of eBay and also swapped some of the caps...pretty damn nice sounding unit for under $200.  Heck, the tubes probably cost me ~50% of the amp cost!
  
 -Mark in St. Louis


----------



## Clayton SF

buldogge said:


> Are you referring to the adapters?
> 
> C3G drivers and 6SN7 powers...I run the same set-up (DIY adapters) on both my LD MK II and MK III.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you! Great to know. Who made your adapters? Did you? Nice.


----------



## gibosi

clayton sf said:


> Thank you! Great to know. Who made your adapters? Did you? Nice.


 
  
 The owner of that particular amp, MIKELAP, a retired metallurgy guy, made his own adapters. However, inexpensive adapters can be purchased online, C3g loctal on top and 6AK5 7-pin miniature on the bottom.
  
 My Little "Monster" Dot 1+ lol


----------



## buldogge

clayton sf said:


> Thank you! Great to know. Who made your adapters? Did you? Nice.


 

 As gibosi pointed out, MIKELAP made his own...
  
 Mine are DIY as well...eBay sockets, copper pipe, epoxy, and 18g solid copper wire.
  
 There are also Chinese/HK vendors that offer ready made solutions on eBay...people have had _mostly _decent luck with them.
  
 There are a lot of examples over on the LD tube rolling thread...
  
 -Mark


----------



## Clayton SF

The C3g, as I understand it, has a very long life.
 Live long, (listen long) and prosper!


----------



## hypnos1

clayton sf said:


> The C3g, as I understand it, has a very long life.
> Live long, (listen long) and prosper!


 
  
 The C3g is one wonderful tube, C SF - having introduced its (adapted) use in the Little Dots, I have now managed to do do so in my Feliks-Audio 'Elise' and have discovered a simple way of improving their sound to a degree that I find quite unbelievable - if you're able to make your own adapters...I have always used pure silver wire in mine to great effect, but I thought I would try ADDING a single-crystal copper one to g1, just out of interest - and could not believe the difference it made to an already wonderful tube (especially to the Siemens'S' version) : greater bass extension/weight/detail; more _apparent_ mids detail; even smoother treble (which is an absolute godsend for my Beyer T1s!), and an even more holographic soundstage. I literally could not believe my ears...so I repeated the experiment, with the same results.
  
 And so I would suspect that introducing this 'magical' (to my ears anyway!) combination of SCC and pure silver somewhere in the signal line could do wonders for _anyone_ with _any_ amp...just a thought...


----------



## whirlwind

clayton sf said:


> The C3g, as I understand it, has a very long life.
> Live long, (listen long) and prosper!


 
 Clayton, I believe Glenn told me they are good for 10,000 hours  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 gibosi, every time that I see your  little dot 1+......my eyes get real wide.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The design targets 10,000 minimum service hours.  In reality depending upon the conditions they are run in they could last much longer than that.  These were, in many ways, the pinnacle of tube engineering.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Clayton, I believe Glenn told me they are good for 10,000 hours
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I suspect the LD is feeling hugely neglected now that I have the C3g/SN7 Glenn lol. However, for the $100 it cost me, plus some cheap bolt-on mods, in addition to 7-pin pentodes (triode-strapped), I could roll virtually any 9-pin double triode, and with simple pin-adapters, C3g, ECC40 and 6- 12- and 25SN7, pretty amazing. 
  
 And I would like to point out that the E80CC/6085, E88CC/6922, E188CC/7308 and E182CC/7119 are also 10,000-hour tubes. And with simple pin-adapters, these can all be used in the Glenn and IMHO all sound pretty terrific.


----------



## Neogeo333

Last bite I'll have from NY before leaving back to PR.   This place is so good I went 3 times this week alone.   Prosciutto with mozzarella,  tomato, pesto and avocado.   Better than most food in JFK.


----------



## Silent One

@ Neogeo333
  
 Wishing you safe passage and glad you gotta chance to join us Stateside.


----------



## Silent One

T.H.E. Show - Newport Beach
  
 Worked on the logistics team making it all happen. A lot...a lot...of gear...most of it heavy! Even deceptively small pieces. Also, a lot of impressive gear, no surprise really. Equally impressive are the teams of people behind the scenes that put on the event and pull it off.
  
 Missed actual show due to prior commits. Monday, some reps were still try to gather themselves from too much partying, not enough sleep. I enjoyed talking audio before their late departures. Perhaps, one day we'll see a vendor showcasing their wares and using an amp from Glenn's studio. _Yes, California dreamin'..._


----------



## Seamaster

Junk or treasure? What do you guys think?


----------



## Seamaster

I bet you Glenn can make one that works 10 times better.


----------



## 2359glenn

I would at least use wire wound resistors and a switched attenuator.


----------



## gibosi

I see that a new ZOTL (Zero hysteresis Output Transformer-Less) headphone amp has been released:
  
 http://www.urbanhifi.com/products/microzotl-brochure/microzotl-brochure
  
 It uses some very interesting technology to allow a 6SN7 to deliver 1 Watt into a 4 Ohm load.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Putting speaker taps on an amp that uses a 6SN7 for it's output stage seems like a bit of a stretch to me.  But, I haven't heard the amp, maybe it works great.  Either way I'll happily stick with Glenn's amps.
  
 I had an amazing listening session with _Kanade_ tonight.  Up to now I've left the KenRad globe 45s a little underbiased to go easy on them, but I brought them up to a proper 34mA tonight.  The difference was substantial, and to be honest a little eye opening.  It really makes me question the validity of sharing impressions on the sound of tubes unless all parties involved are using the same amp.  Even small differences in biasing can really change the sound of a tube.  These globes left me pretty dumbstruck tonight with a sound that is both substantially different and substantially better than it was last week with just a couple milliamps less current on the plates.  At the same operating point globe 45 are in a totally different class from the ST style 45 tubes too.  I did not expect the difference to be this great.
  
 Fun fun fun stuff.


----------



## gibosi

I am pretty sure that I am probably the only Glenn owner who listens to the E182CC/7119, but don't know where else to share this...
  
 I just managed to pick up a 1958 E182CC for $16.50! I am one happy camper! This is among the earliest ever made, batch 0 (ID0 ⊿8J). Notice that the glass was "pinched in", contacting the top mica spacer, to minimize vibration and microphony. At that time, these tubes were still state of-the-art. But by end of the 1950s, as R&D dollars were being siphoned away to SS, this practice was discontinued in order to reduce costs.
  
 1968 E182CC on the left           1958 on the right.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

gibosi said:


> I am pretty sure that I am probably the only Glenn owner who listens to the E182CC/7119, but don't know where else to share this...


 
  
 I've used the e182cc/7119 in an OTL amp in cathode follower config.  Very nice price for a great tube.  Haven't used them as driver yet.  Are they in the same category as 6SN7 (dual triode, ~20 gain)?


----------



## gibosi

Yes, it is a medium mu double triode with a gain of 24. I prefer it to the 5687 and 7044, which have the same pin-out.


----------



## 2359glenn

Ken I think you have tried more tubes in the amp then I did and I have tried plenty.
 that is why I came up with the 6-12-24 volt switch to be able to try more tubes.


----------



## gibosi

It's a great feature to have. For one, 12SN7s are often considerably cheaper than the 6 volt versions, for example, the BGRP Tung-Sol 12SN7. And I often run dual-voltage tubes like the 12AU7 in the 12 volt mode. When people ask me about your OTL, I always encourage them to get this option.


----------



## gibosi

Oh, I am about ready to try another tube that is new to me: ECC804, which can also be found labeled as 6/30L2, 6GA8 and B729. It has a gain of 18, and as far as I can tell, was made only by Brimar. They arrived today, but I haven't had a chance yet to see if they will light up and play.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Oh, I am about ready to try another tube that is new to me: ECC804, which can also be found labeled as 6/30L2, 6GA8 and B729. It has a gain of 18, and as far as I can tell, was made only by Brimar. They arrived today, but I haven't had a chance yet to see if they will light up and play.


 

 You have a adapter for them?


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Yes, it is a medium mu double triode with a gain of 24. I prefer it to the 5687 and 7044, which have the same pin-out.


 
  
 Interesting, so I could use my 5687 adapter to try this tube.
  
 This crowd has never been all that vocal about tube rolling for some reason.  A shame.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> You have a adapter for them?


 
  
 The ECC804 has the same pinout as the 6CG7 and 6DJ8 so I already have an adapter that will work. Interestingly, the first time I became aware of this tube, it was labeled as a 6CG7. In fact, Upscale Audio will sell you one for $65! Fortunately, Oskari's sharp eye found a Brimar tube code on one of these "6CG7"s which revealed that it was actually a ECC804. Perhaps back in the day someone had this great idea of labeling these as 6CG7 and selling them in the US? lol. As they are quite cheap on eBay, decided to give one a try.


----------



## Seamaster

ECC804 are fast tube loaded with bass, they are semi warm, more liquid than 12au7 type. Let us know how do they ompare to e182cc.


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn, I may be keeping you busy making me adapters in the future so I can try all of these wonderful tube combos


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Glenn, I may be keeping you busy making me adapters in the future so I can try all of these wonderful tube combos


 

 OK Guess I will be busy if you are going to use all the tubes ken uses.
 Maybe I will look if I can squeeze in a 9 pin socket wired for a 12AU7-12AT7-6CG7/6FQ7-12FQ7 and more with out a adapter.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> OK Guess I will be busy if you are going to use all the tubes ken uses.
> Maybe I will look if I can squeeze in a 9 pin socket wired for a 12AU7-12AT7-6CG7/6FQ7-12FQ7 and more with out a adapter.


 
  
 This would be a very good thing. With this socket and the 6/12/24 switch, one could also roll ECC804 and all the ECC88/6DJ8-types at 6 volts and E80CC/6085 and 13D3 at 12 volts. (However, adapters will still be needed for 2C51, 6463, ECC40 and E182CC/7119.)


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, I may be keeping you busy making me adapters in the future so I can try all of these wonderful tube combos
> ...


 
 My amp will already have 7 sockets, and all of your other upgrades, but if you can pull it off to fit an 8th socket, no complaints at all from me, Glenn  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just pm me the details, sir.


----------



## Seamaster

Are you gentlemen talking about a socket with voltage switch built in? Sorry I was away from head-fi for awhile because of my school.


----------



## 2359glenn

seamaster said:


> Are you gentlemen talking about a socket with voltage switch built in? Sorry I was away from head-fi for awhile because of my school.


 

 No not a socket but the amp has a switch that switches 6.3-12.6-25.2  to the 6SN7 socket.
 This allows the use of 6SN7 12SN7 1633/13D1 the 12 and 25 volt versions are much cheeper
 then the 6 volt ones. And a 9 pin socket will allow the use of all the 9 pin tubes.
 I normally use the Brimar 13D1/25SN7.


----------



## Seamaster

2359glenn said:


> No not a socket but the amp has a switch that switches 6.3-12.6-25.2  to the 6SN7 socket.
> This allows the use of 6SN7 12SN7 1633/13D1 the 12 and 25 volt versions are much cheeper
> then the 6 volt ones. And a 9 pin socket will allow the use of all the 9 pin tubes.
> I normally use the Brimar 13D1/25SN7.




That is a genius idea. It must be fun to roll all those tubes.


----------



## gibosi

seamaster said:


> ECC804 are fast tube loaded with bass, they are semi warm, more liquid than 12au7 type. Let us know how do they ompare to e182cc.


 
  
 In my experience, "house sound" can be a useful concept when discussing the "sound" of any particular tube. That is, tubes produced by any particular manufacturer often share a similar and even predictable "sound". For example, I believe many of us might agree that there is such a thing as the Sylvania house sound, the RCA house sound and the Mullard house sound. So when evaluating the Brimar ECC804, I wanted to first begin by comparing it to other Brimar tubes to see how similar, or different, it is, and after digging through my stash, I found a black glass 6SN7GTY and 13D3.
  

  
 I should note that I do not have the patience nor the discipline to listen to the same track over and over again, trying to parse tiny differences. I very much admire those who have this skill. But I look for larger differences, primarily in tonal balance, which I hope will be of some use. I have been enjoying the new album by Melody Gardot, Currency of Man, so rolled these tubes in while listening to a few tracks.
  
 Switching from the ECC804 to the 6SN7GTY, the biggest difference I notice is the bass. The 6SN7 has a bigger and thicker bass. Otherwise, the midrange and highs seem to be to be quite similar. And even though the bass with the ECC804 is not as big and thick, it is still very good, and as one might expect, it is more detailed. I could be happy with either of these tubes.
  
 Rolling in the 13D3, it is very similar to the ECC804, with very good bass, but vocals seem to be a bit more forward, and I don't think the mids are as liquid. To my ears, the 13D3 just isn't as musical as the other two, although can't quite say why....
  
 Next, how does the Brimar ECC804 compare to the Philips Heerlen-made E182CC? Well first, I would like the reader to consider that there might be something like a "tonal-balance continuum" running from west to east, across Europe, from the thick and warm Mullards to the thin and cool Siemens. And I would say that the E182CC is a superlative example of the Philips' Heerlen house sound, intermediate between thick and warm Mullard and thin and cool Siemens, and characterized by a lush midrange. And further, I would say that Brimar is intermediate between Mullard and Heerlen along this continuum, not as warm as the Mullard and not as bright and lush as the Heerlen. Of course, this continuum construct idea is mostly a figment of my imagination, lol, but it does help me in my efforts to get a handle on the sound of European tubes. To sum up, the major difference I hear between the ECC804 and E182CC is that lushness. But both are superb.
  
 To make things a bit more complicated, after the Heerlen factory was decommissioned in the 1970s, production of the E182CC was relocated to the Philips' Amperex factory in Hicksville, New York. And of course, that factory has a different house sound, most notably, it is not as lush as Heerlen. Interestingly enough, a US-made E182CC sounds very similar to the Brimar ECC804.
  
 Again, to my mind, the 6SN7GTY, ECC804 and E182CC are superlative tubes, none better than the other, just slightly different. And I think I can say that if you like the Brimar house sound, the ECC804 will not disappoint. It is a terrific tube.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I honestly think a guy could just wire the socket for 25v, drop a 13D1 in and just leave it.  Very good sounding tube overall and it seems to just suit the OTL very well.  Not saying it's *the* best period, but for what they cost the "set it and forget it" return on investment is very high with this tube.
  
 If I had to pick a tube to hardwire into the circuit, though, it would be the B65.  To my ears that tube has something no other 6SN7 has.


----------



## gibosi

There are a number of B65s out there, some with metal base, and so on. Do you consider them all to be equally good?


----------



## whirlwind

xcalibur255 said:


> I honestly think a guy could just wire the socket for 25v, drop a 13D1 in and just leave it.  Very good sounding tube overall and it seems to just suit the OTL very well.  Not saying it's *the* best period, but for what they cost the "set it and forget it" return on investment is very high with this tube.
> 
> If I had to pick a tube to hardwire into the circuit, though, it would be the B65.  To my ears that tube has something no other 6SN7 has.


 
 Glenn recommended a 13D1 to me.....so I bought one.....I think when I get my amp , I will try it first.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> There are a number of B65s out there, some with metal base, and so on. Do you consider them all to be equally good?


 

 Get the B36 same tube as a B65 with a 12.6 volt heater at 1/2 the price. That is the beauty of the multi voltage switch.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> I honestly think a guy could just wire the socket for 25v, drop a 13D1 in and just leave it.  Very good sounding tube overall and it seems to just suit the OTL very well.  Not saying it's *the* best period, but for what they cost the "set it and forget it" return on investment is very high with this tube.
> 
> If I had to pick a tube to hardwire into the circuit, though, it would be the B65.  To my ears that tube has something no other 6SN7 has.


 

 My first OTL amps I had the transformer wound with a 25 volt filament winding. They would only take the 13D1 and 1633.


----------



## gibosi

For sure, I have been looking at B36  But I am not sure if the B36/B65 was manufactured by more than one company. So before I pull the trigger, want to be sure I am buying the right one.


----------



## gibosi

So....  curiosity got the best of me.....  and I rolled in a 13D1 to compare it to the ECC804. And the ECC804 compares very, very well. The 13D1 is every so slightly brighter, with a bit more air. But otherwise, they are very, very similar. In the end, I still think the ECC804 is a terrific tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> So....  curiosity got the best of me.....  and I rolled in a 13D1 to compare it to the ECC804. And the ECC804 compares very, very well. The 13D1 is every so slightly brighter, with a bit more air. But otherwise, they are very, very similar. In the end, I still think the ECC804 is a terrific tube.


 

 I have never tried the B65 or B36 may have listened to the B65 at Stavros house though.
 The 13D1 is the best 6SN7 I owned maybe the NU 6F8 round plate.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> There are a number of B65s out there, some with metal base, and so on. Do you consider them all to be equally good?


 
  
 Haha, dunno.  They're rare and expensive and I've only ever heard one.  And only because of somebody's generosity at that.  Mine is an older metal base with grey glass coating.
  
 It's an odd tube too.  It's well used, many hours on it, but it kept sounding better and better the more I used it the way a NOS tube would break in.  I had written the tube off as having a lovely midrange but being soft sounding once upon a time, then revisited months later only to find a nasal quality had invaded the sound.  Intrigued (and disappointed) I just kept using it and leaving it on for long periods of time and eventually it settled into a sound that really just resembles the sound of my 45 amp more than any 6SN7 I can think of.  That is, very pure sounding, not peaky or hotspotty in any tone range.  It beats a TS BGRP in resolution and transparency and sounds more accurate tonally while doing so.  All other 6SN7 tubes sound flawed in some way tonally compared to a B65, to my ears.
  
 But if I let it sit in the box for a while it seems to backpedal.  I wonder if the emission isn't so great and it needs to "work up steam" so to speak.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Silly question.  But I've been searching for a site for Glenn to learn about his tube amps with no luck.  Is there a web site?  I'd like to read up for purchase down the road.  And if I read this thread too long, I get hungry for some odd reason....


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm afraid you'll have to do with the thread for now though. Now where's that cake


----------



## 2359glenn

buttuglyjeff said:


> Silly question.  But I've been searching for a site for Glenn to learn about his tube amps with no luck.  Is there a web site?  I'd like to read up for purchase down the road.  And if I read this thread too long, I get hungry for some odd reason....


 

 No web site just PM me and I will answer any questions.
 This is almost a food thread allot of good looking food pictures though and some good drink.


----------



## Xcalibur255

You are better off asking specific questions if you have them.  The thread is long and 2/3 of the posts are not related to the amps.
  
 edit:  I see this was about 30 seconds too late.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have been so busy lately that I hardly have time to enjoy my amps and music in general anymore. When I received the new $3K Hifiman HE-1000 last week I hooked it up to my Violectric V281 in the living room and it sounded superb. I hardly ever get wow'ed anymore but the HE1000 did just that and I just knew I had to take some time off to listen to it on the one and only 2359Glenn 300B amp upstairs.
  
 A day later I kicked my cat out of my office. AK240, Lana del Rey's Ultraviolence in FLAC, 300B with a new NOS RCA 5U4G, Belgian beer: check. I've always known the 300B was a special and great sounding amp, but the HE-1000 for the first time really revealed what it is capable of. The combination of both is just magical and it's hard to believe a headphone setup can sound this good. I doubt it can get even better as this simply is ridiculously good.
  
 Glenn, I haven't been posting much in this thread but do know I'm still very much loving the amp you made me. Those interested in a Glenn amp, you won't find a site advertising his amps but just read through this thread and you'll be convinced in no time. We're all very happy campers and the reason we don't keep posting here is because we're still so very happy with it and have nothing to complain about. That's why you'll find alot of drink and food posts


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

2359glenn said:


> No web site just PM me and I will answer any questions.
> This is almost a food thread allot of good looking food pictures though and some good drink.


 
  
 Well, that's fair.  Everyone starts somewhere...
  
 I'll ask for one thing then.  Is there a master list of your amp types?  After that I'll just continue to read through here.  I'm a ways away from a tube amp purchase.  As I need a good DAC first, and that will most likely eat my remaining 2015 head-fi funds...


----------



## whirlwind

buttuglyjeff said:


> Silly question.  But I've been searching for a site for Glenn to learn about his tube amps with no luck.  Is there a web site?  I'd like to read up for purchase down the road.  And if I read this thread too long, I get hungry for some odd reason....


 
 I hear you, I have read every page in this thread, looking for tube combos ect.......I took notes and have a nice long list  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The food in this thread is just totally off the hook and at times , I caught myself staring at a delicious looking picture


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> I have been so busy lately that I hardly have time to enjoy my amps and music in general anymore. When I received the new $3K Hifiman HE-1000 last week I hooked it up to my Violectric V281 in the living room and it sounded superb. I hardly ever get wow'ed anymore but the HE1000 did just that and I just knew I had to take some time off to listen to it on the one and only 2359Glenn 300B amp upstairs.
> 
> A day later I kicked my cat out of my office. AK240, Lana del Rey's Ultraviolence in FLAC, 300B with a new NOS RCA 5U4G, Belgian beer: check. I've always known the 300B was a special and great sounding amp, but the HE-1000 for the first time really revealed what it is capable of. The combination of both is just magical and it's hard to believe a headphone setup can sound this good. I doubt it can get even better as this simply is ridiculously good.
> 
> Glenn, I haven't been posting much in this thread but do know I'm still very much loving the amp you made me. Those interested in a Glenn amp, you won't find a site advertising his amps but just read through this thread and you'll be convinced in no time. We're all very happy campers and the reason we don't keep posting here is because we're still so very happy with it and have nothing to complain about. That's why you'll find alot of drink and food posts


 

 Thanks Ultra


----------



## gibosi

buttuglyjeff said:


> I'll ask for one thing then.  Is there a master list of your amp types?


 
  
 Generally speaking, if what you want is feasible and you can afford it, Glenn will build it. 
  
 So, I would recommend that you spend some time trying to figure out what kind of amp you want and then you will be ready to have a conversation with Glenn.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

gibosi said:


> *...if what you want is feasible and you can afford it...*


 
  
 Let's do C3g -> 45 -> 300b -> 845 with amor silver Lundahl, Cu/Ag Duelund intercap monoblocks with speaker posts/headphone outputs.
  
 Kidding aside, this would cost way more than the car I'm driving...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

sko0bydoo said:


> Let's do C3g -> 45 -> 300b -> 845 with amor silver Lundahl, Cu/Ag Duelund intercap monoblocks with speaker posts/headphone outputs.
> 
> Kidding aside, this would cost way more than the car I'm driving...


 
  
 That's why there are busses...


----------



## Silent One

Some moons back, inquiries for Glenn and about Glenn _were all over the street _(head-fi). I created this thread to serve as a front-end meeting place to bring together those inquiries as well as our interests.
  
 I've certainly learned a lot in following Glenn and the shared knowledge from others. OH and the elephant in the room (with its big behind crushing my seat inside the listening room)? There's simply something about good food, good music and good people that brings us together in the thread and keeps up together. 
  
 Can any of you new readers imagine visiting Glenn's studio for a consultation and leaving without ever being offered food or drink? Why should these pages be any different?


----------



## lukeap69

Nice one SO.

What I suggest would be very useful is have a list of different types of amps Glenn is (/has been) building with brief description and approximate cost? I remember seeing this somewhere but can be difficult to find again... Thanks.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

lukeap69 said:


> Nice one SO.
> 
> What I suggest would be very useful is have a list of different types of amps Glenn is (/has been) building with brief description and approximate cost? I remember seeing this somewhere but can be difficult to find again... Thanks.


 
  
 Maybe a front page update....


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> What I suggest would be very useful is have a list of different types of amps Glenn is (/has been) building with brief description and approximate cost? I remember seeing this somewhere but can be difficult to find again... Thanks.


 
  
 Every amp is custom built. And therefore such a list would require a fairly detailed description of each and every amp, as they are all different. And really, in my opinion, Glenn has better things to do with his time, that is, build amps.
  
 If you read through this thread, you will see there have been two common types: A 6SN7/6AS7 OTL which starts at around $1000. And a C3g/300B which starts at around $2,500. But again, these can be and have been customized in many, many different ways. The sky is the limit. And I am sure that if you would prefer something different, say an all solid state amp, he would be happy to build you one. 
  
 Again, figure out what kind of amp you want and then ask Glenn to build it. Or, if you don't care about all the details, then simply ask Glenn to build the best amp he can for your budget.


----------



## lukeap69

I know what I want and I have communicated that with Glenn. I have read many moons ago re the basic amp Glenn is building such as OTL, 300B & with Lundalh transfo. Perhaps not all config but the basic ones. And this is for those new to Glenn amps and not me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Every amp is custom built. And therefore such a list would require a fairly detailed description of each and every amp, as they are all different. And really, in my opinion, Glenn has better things to do with his time, that is, build amps.
> 
> If you read through this thread, you will see there have been two common types: A 6SN7/6AS7 OTL which starts at around $1000. And a C3g/300B which starts at around $2,500. But again, these can be and have been customized in many, many different ways. The sky is the limit. And I am sure that if you would prefer something different, say an all solid state amp, he would be happy to build you one.
> 
> Again, figure out what kind of amp you want and then ask Glenn to build it. Or, if you don't care about all the details, then simply ask Glenn to build the best amp he can for your budget.


 
  
 Honestly both of those numbers could be cut down quite a bit.  Glenn's original mission was to built cheap amps that sound good, but all of us here have been steadily pushing the cost up with requests and suggestions to eek out small gains in performance.  I'm probably the most guilty party here. 
  
 My version of the OTL can probably still be built for $600 for example.  All that extra $400 gets you is a bit of extra tube rolling ability and and a reduction in background noise.  With less exotic transformers and cap choices a 300B could probably go out the door for $1500. 
  
 These are my numbers by the way, definitely not to be taken as fact.  I just wanted to point out to new people that the price door can be swung both ways to some degree.


----------



## Seamaster

gibosi said:


> In my experience, "house sound" can be a useful concept when discussing the "sound" of any particular tube. That is, tubes produced by any particular manufacturer often share a similar and even predictable "sound". For example, I believe many of us might agree that there is such a thing as the Sylvania house sound, the RCA house sound and the Mullard house sound. So when evaluating the Brimar ECC804, I wanted to first begin by comparing it to other Brimar tubes to see how similar, or different, it is, and after digging through my stash, I found a black glass 6SN7GTY and 13D3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Excellent, thanks you for taking the time and effort to compare those tubes. I am with you that I am also not big fan of formalizsed reviews about N th degree in detail and as such, tonal balanced makes a system work or fail. Also tonal balaned is the soul of a system.


----------



## whirlwind

I think Glenn is now working on my amp, so nothing left to do but wait.
  
 So in the mean time, I can contribute to the thread with some food pics......the wife and I are currently on vacation at Virginia Beach......here are some pics from our last couple of dinners.


----------



## Eee Pee

Blue Moon beer?


----------



## wotts

Definitely something wheat. Gotta love summer beers. Having an All Day IPA myself.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I prefer IPA, all day.


----------



## whirlwind

eee pee said:


> Blue Moon beer?


 
 Yes, it is.


----------



## Neogeo333

Those fried calamari and oyster are calling me.  Im still trying to get the taste of the Blue Moon pumpkin beer out of my mouth.  No more fruity beer for me.


----------



## Eee Pee

Pumpkin beers aren't good. Not a fan. Blue Moon Belgian White might be the best thing out of MillerCoors. It's more refreshing than a glass of ice water. I wish I had an orange, I'd go get some. These pretzels are making me thirsty![/Kramer]


----------



## parbaked

I'm in Anderson Valley this week just down the road from the brewery!


----------



## Eee Pee

Couldn't help myself. Totally not the same without the orange slice.


----------



## whirlwind

Monday's beach lunch

  
  
 Monday's Dinner....we ate at Watermans in Virginia Beach.....they are know for their crushed cocktails.....I had a couple of original orange crush cocktails
 Freshed squeezed orange juice.....orange vodka and a splash of sprite


----------



## Eee Pee

Drink sounds good. Bacon wrapped scallops?


----------



## wotts

Or pork shots?


----------



## whirlwind

Bacon wrapped scallops....mussels in lemon garlic sauce,which was spectacular....ii finished the sauce off like soup, once the mussels were gone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Fried calamari and a wonderful hummus.


----------



## john57

Oh my God! Bacon wrapped scallops one of my favorites!


----------



## musicman59

MMMMM!!! Beacon wrapped scallops!!! one of my favorite!!


----------



## whirlwind

Tuesday's dinner


----------



## Silent One

@ whirlwind
  
 Ah...Good Times!


----------



## parbaked

whirlwind said:


> Tuesday's dinner


 
 Nice...but I've noticed a disturbing lack of pizza in your diet!
  
 This week up in Philo we enjoyed a new joint that makes only 60 pies a day from a live yeast culture in an oak burning oven.
  
 We started with Smoked Potato Beignets (fried gnocchi) with buttermilk herb dressing with piment d'ville, a dried basques pepper that they grow in Anderson Valley

  
 Then Mushroom "Chicharrones".
 These are like Chinese shrimp crackers but made with mushrooms and tapioca flour that they dehydrate and then fry so they puff like chicharrones! Seasoned with porcini salt and parmesan.
  
  

  
 And a Pizza Margherita


----------



## Silent One

Yup, this thread is powered in part by Pizza!


----------



## whirlwind

parbaked.....that looks very delicious in deed.
  
 My wife and I do not make it to the beach to often, so when we do....it is usually all about the sea food for us.
  
 Last night , I did go for the portabella sandwich, with a few different flights as my beverages, we also took in a free Gin Blossoms concert.


----------



## musicman59

I love the Gin Blossoms!!!


----------



## Eee Pee

I love flights of beer!


----------



## parbaked

I'll try a Gin Flight!


----------



## Eee Pee

Don't make me start drinking before noon! 

Gin dranks, beers and scallop pizza! Yay!


----------



## parbaked

whirlwind said:


> ....it is usually all about the sea food for us.


 
 We had seafood at Roederer Estates on Tuesday:

 Tuna Sandwich and a bottle of NV Brut!!


----------



## Silent One

Tuna & Brut? Moar bubbles, please.


----------



## Eee Pee

Waiter! Two glasses of your finest bubbly mayo please. Tuna on the side. Thanks.


----------



## whirlwind

I am thinking some soft shell crabs for tonight.


----------



## whirlwind

Well, I missed out on my soft shell crab .....I did have one nice meal, before vacation ended.....I am now back to the real world....which means work, unfortunately.
  
  

  
 Steak...crabcake.....fried green tomatoes, which I could have eaten like a dozen


----------



## Silent One

A Time And Place .::.
  
 While all my gears remain temporarily stored around the corner (boxed up), I was inspired to take the venerable '2359glenn amp' out for a listen next few days...(few weeks?) after doin' the same with a vintage receiver over the weekend. 
  
 I've simply no space for the full rig. But have recently grown tired of internet radio so...time to start listening to audio again one piece at a time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Only the rectifier differs in this previous shot - jus swapped the Sylvania 3DG4 rec in. Will run Line-Out on iPhone to get reacquainted with the iron. Hope everyone has been enjoying Summer 2015...cheers!
  
 Add: Tube complement
  
 Front: Brimar 13D1
 Middle: Tung-Sol JAN 5998
 Rear: Sylvania 3DG4


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> A Time And Place .::.
> 
> While all my gears remain temporarily stored around the corner (boxed up), I was inspired to take the venerable '2359glenn amp' out for a listen next few days...(few weeks?) after doin' the same with a vintage receiver over the weekend.
> 
> ...


 
 Gorgeous!


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> Gorgeous!


 
 Thanks. I've fallen a bit behind with my enjoyment of music. Sure, gears are nice, but after the smoke clears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




from a bad tube or two, it's all about playing and listening to the music. 
  
 By the way, I've been sharing in your joy from afar, it keeps hope alive for me!


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Gorgeous!
> ...


 
 We are all here for each other my friend! Some days just take a bit more to get through.


----------



## whirlwind

silent one said:


> A Time And Place .::.
> 
> While all my gears remain temporarily stored around the corner (boxed up), I was inspired to take the venerable '2359glenn amp' out for a listen next few days...(few weeks?) after doin' the same with a vintage receiver over the weekend.
> 
> ...


 
 Just beautiful


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> Just beautiful


 
  
 +1. One of the best pics I have seen on HeadFi. Thanks for sharing


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> A Time And Place .::.
> 
> While all my gears remain temporarily stored around the corner (boxed up), I was inspired to take the venerable '2359glenn amp' out for a listen next few days...(few weeks?) after doin' the same with a vintage receiver over the weekend.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice SO one of the first amps I sold been awhile since I seen one


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Nice SO one of the first amps I sold been awhile since I seen one


 
 Thanks everyone! I certainly could've just wrote what I was up to. But then, you've come along way with custom builds, so I opened up the archives for the thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now, if I could make one admission: after retrieving the amp and neatly returning other goodies to their proper places; dodging morning commute rush traffic, I just discovered before dinner that I forgot to get the AC power cord!


----------



## TonyNewman

Hey Folks, I am hoping to take delivery of a new and shiney Glenn 300B amp in a few weeks time (C3G drivers / PY500 rectifiers).
  
 I am planning to put TA300Bs in it - these are the best 300Bs I have heard so far. Has anyone out there found a particular synergy with a certain 300B with the Glenn amp?
  
 Also - for those with the C3G / PY500 setup - do you notice much difference in the sound by changing the C3Gs / PY500s?
  
 (apologies if these topics have been covered earlier in the thread)


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> Hey Folks, I am hoping to take delivery of a new and shiney Glenn 300B amp in a few weeks time (C3G drivers / PY500 rectifiers).
> 
> I am planning to put TA300Bs in it - these are the best 300Bs I have heard so far. Has anyone out there found a particular synergy with a certain 300B with the Glenn amp?
> 
> ...


 

 Your best bet is to ask dminches he has the same amp you are getting and uses the TA300Bs
 He can tell you the SQ of the amp


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Your best bet is to ask dminches he has the same amp you are getting and uses the TA300Bs
> He can tell you the SQ of the amp


 
  
 Thanks Glenn - I'll send a PM.
  
 I have no doubt the amp will sound stunning. I am curious if anyone out there has found a "magic" tube combination. Some amps respond particularly well to a particular tube setup.
  
 In fact you are perhaps the best person to ask about the C3G / PY500 tube rolling in these amps - does it makes much difference to play with different C3Gs / PY500s?


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Your best bet is to ask dminches he has the same amp you are getting and uses the TA300Bs
> ...


 

 Tony
 I told you about the Lorenz C3g
 Not many options with the C3g but they all sound good
 There are many PY500s all a little different most from Europe but there are some USA made and some Panasonic made in Japan.
 I will send you a pair of US made PY500s they sound different but that will be up to you what one sounds best to you.


----------



## gibosi

tonynewman said:


> Also - for those with the C3G / PY500 setup - do you notice much difference in the sound by changing the C3Gs / PY500s?


 
  
 In a Glenn OTL with a pair of C3g driving 6AS7/6080, the Lorenz and the Siemens C3gs do in fact sound different. Based on this, I have to think they will sound different in a 300B as well.


----------



## TonyNewman

gibosi said:


> In a Glenn OTL with a pair of C3g driving 6AS7/6080, the Lorenz and the Siemens C3gs do in fact sound different. Based on this, I have to think they will sound different in a 300B as well.


 
  
 Thank you - and I nice looking amp you have there.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Tony
> I told you about the Lorenz C3g
> Not many options with the C3g but they all sound good
> There are many PY500s all a little different most from Europe but there are some USA made and some Panasonic made in Japan.
> I will send you a pair of US made PY500s they sound different but that will be up to you what one sounds best to you.


 
  
 Thanks Glenn. I have the following on hand:
 C3G: Lorenz / Seimens / Telefunken
 PY500: Telefunken / Mullard / RCA ... have some more euro tubes but recall exaactly which.


----------



## 2359glenn

I have to finish whirlwinds OTL that will be the same as gibosis except it will have a Lundahl transformer and PY500 rectifiers then I will build your 300B amp.
 Love crazy tubes that cost $2.00 and are better then the best 5 volt rectifiers.


----------



## gibosi

Currently, I'm pushing the envelope a bit and listening to a Mullard ECC31. Apparently it is identical to an ECC32, except for a common cathode and thus a simple pin adapter is required. To my ears, sounds great.
  
 (I wish I could take a picture as nice as SO's, but my cell-phone camera just isn't all that good)


----------



## gibosi

tonynewman said:


> C3G: Lorenz / Seimens / Telefunken


 
  
 I have my doubts that Telefunken manufactured this tube and believe it just a rebranded Siemens. And for that reason I have not purchased a pair. If you do notice sonic differences please let us know.


----------



## TonyNewman

gibosi said:


> I have my doubts that Telefunken manufactured this tube and believe it just a rebranded Siemens. And for that reason I have not purchased a pair. If you do notice sonic differences please let us know.


 
  
 Will do. Tube rebranding is a nightmare. 6F8Gs in particular.


----------



## Silent One

gibosi said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Since I'm starving for gear, send me the amp and I'll send you pix!


----------



## Silent One

@ 2359glenn; TonyNewman
  





 Can't wait for y'all to splash the page here with pix!!!


----------



## TonyNewman

silent one said:


> @ 2359glenn; TonyNewman
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll be posting amp-porn all over the shop once I get my grubby hands on the 300B Glenn amp.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I have to finish whirlwinds OTL that will be the same as gibosis except it will have a Lundahl transformer and PY500 rectifiers then I will build your 300B amp.
> Love crazy tubes that cost $2.00 and are better then the best 5 volt rectifiers.


 
 Glenn, I have been meaning to ask how my OTL project is coming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My HD800, HD650, and myself are getting pretty dang excited....to say the least.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I have to finish whirlwinds OTL that will be the same as gibosis except it will have a Lundahl transformer and PY500 rectifiers then I will build your 300B amp.
> ...


 

 Still at the whole punching stage squeezing in 2 rectifier tubes instead of one dual rectifier.  Had to finish Georg's 300B amp with the silver transformers and silver wire
 Plan on having it done in 2 weeks.


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks for the update, Glenn


----------



## Neogeo333

I can almost picture it.   Postal guy delivering a huge heavy box while I'm there jumping in excitement.   Can't wait to see what Glenn have to say about them opt.


----------



## whirlwind

neogeo333 said:


> I can almost picture it.   Postal guy delivering a huge heavy box while I'm there jumping in excitement.   Can't wait to see what Glenn have to say about them opt.


 
 Ha ha ha.....I bet you are pretty stoked!


----------



## gibosi

Glenn, can you build an adapter allowing a pair of 76 triodes to be used in your OTL? Do you think it would be a good idea?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Glenn, can you build an adapter allowing a pair of 76 triodes to be used in your OTL? Do you think it would be a good idea?


 
 Yes but no time for that now
 Maybe this guy will make it for you
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321551695442?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Neogeo333

whirlwind said:


> Ha ha ha.....I bet you are pretty stoked!


 
 truth is im sort of.  Even if Glenn finish it by tomorrow I still cant try it out.  Long story short its gonna be in Glenn's hands for quite some time.


----------



## jsa_ind

Hi,
 How do I get in touch with Glen?
  
 I wished to purchase a pre amplifier from him.
  
 Thanks,
  
 jsa_ind


----------



## Ultrainferno

jsa_ind said:


> Hi,
> How do I get in touch with Glen?
> 
> I wished to purchase a pre amplifier from him.
> ...


 
  
 Send him a PM here


----------



## jsa_ind

Thank you Sir!


----------



## lukeap69

jsa_ind said:


> Thank you Sir!


 
 And you better do it quick as there are so many in line ahead of us (yeah including me.)


----------



## jsa_ind

Yes Sir!


----------



## lukeap69

jsa_ind said:


> Yes Sir!


 
 Attaboy!


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> And you better do it quick as there are so many in line ahead of us (yeah including me.)


 
  
 I think I might be next in line after the current build is done. YEAH!!! C3Gs driving 300Bs. I just know that is going to be spectacular.


----------



## lukeap69

tonynewman said:


> I think I might be next in line after the current build is done. YEAH!!! C3Gs driving 300Bs. I just know that is going to be spectacular.


 
 Lucky you! I'm sure it will be spectacular...


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> I think I might be next in line after the current build is done. YEAH!!! C3Gs driving 300Bs. I just know that is going to be spectacular.


 
 My turn is not until sometime in the Fall after you..


----------



## Silent One

musicman59 said:


> My turn is not until sometime in the Fall after you..


 





 As the temperature falls in your region, your amp will be right-on-time to enjoy indoors.


----------



## punit

lukeap69 said:


> And you better do it quick as there are so many in line ahead of us (yeah including me.)


 
 Hey Arnold. Guess its safe to assume  you were pretty impressed with mine .


----------



## 2359glenn

punit said:


> lukeap69 said:
> 
> 
> > And you better do it quick as there are so many in line ahead of us (yeah including me.)
> ...


 

 He wants it with six 6BL7 output tubes still will be able to use 6AS7s though


----------



## punit

2359glenn said:


> He wants it with six 6BL7 output tubes still will be able to use 6AS7s though


 
 Nice. Can't wait to do a comparison with mine when he gets it.


----------



## lukeap69

punit said:


> Hey Arnold. Guess its safe to assume  you were pretty impressed with mine .




You ruined me Punit since the day you let me hear your Glenn's amp. From then on, I've decided I needed to get one myself!


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> He wants it with six 6BL7 output tubes still will be able to use 6AS7s though


 
  
 Have you tried out the 6BX7 Glenn?  In direct comparison I am finding I prefer it over the 6BL7.  It has tone like a DHT somehow to my ears.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > He wants it with six 6BL7 output tubes still will be able to use 6AS7s though
> ...


 

 Hi I have not done a comparison I will when I build the next 6BL7 OTL.
 A OTL using paralleled 6BL7s sounds better than a 6AS7 .
 There is a full review of this amplifier at  www.Tweak-fi.com


----------



## abvolt

just read that review very nice and a great looking amp as well..


----------



## rosgr63

Yes the 6BL7's sound very good, never tried the 6BX7's yet.


----------



## TonyNewman

Hi Glenn, hope this isn't too insane a question...
  
 Have you ever built an 845 based headamp? 20W of class A excess?


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> Hi Glenn, hope this isn't too insane a question...
> 
> Have you ever built an 845 based headamp? 20W of class A excess?


 

 Built a SV572-3 amp running at 1100 volts on the plate putting out 20 watts but it was for speakers.
 Have to think about that 20 watts for headphones.
 Have to see if I can get a Lundahl transformer for a 845 or 211 I think they make one.


----------



## Neogeo333

Is that similar to a 811A tube?  Double duty amp for speakers/headphone.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Built a SV572-3 amp running at 1100 volts on the plate putting out 20 watts but it was for speakers.
> Have to think about that 20 watts for headphones.
> Have to see if I can get a Lundahl transformer for a 845 or 211 I think they make one.


 
  
 Thanks Glenn. I wouldn't burn too much time on it - just curiosity. I have played with a 845 SET power amp hooked up to headphones via the HiFiMan adapter box. Results were mixed - HD800 was slightly better than the WA5, HE6 slightly worse.
  
 Some headphone respond to more power with better dynamics.
  
 20W for headphones is getting a little nutty - but excess is what HeadFi is all about


----------



## TonyNewman

neogeo333 said:


> Is that similar to a 811A tube?  Double duty amp for speakers/headphone.


 
  
 845 can throw 20W to 24W in Class A. It will also burn 100W per tube to do it. It's like having a BBQ inside your home. Great in winter, not so great in summer.
  
 Still needs sensitive speakers to match them to. I tried using 88 dB speaker with the 845 driving them - didn't really work. Now using a 150W SS power amp - much, much better. You want speakers well into the 90s, I think, otherwise the dynamics suffer badly.


----------



## Xcalibur255

rosgr63 said:


> Yes the 6BL7's sound very good, never tried the 6BX7's yet.


 
  
 I highly recommend giving them a spin.  They are cheaper and easy to get, and IMO sound better.  Not sure if that will still be true in a circuit not optimized for them, but that's true for any tube substitution I suppose.
  
 I'm starting to think it might be good to investigate other transformer options too.  The Lundahls have this "shouty" quality sometimes.  It becomes a lot more noticeable once you are able to compare it to other things.


----------



## 3083joe

xcalibur255 said:


> I highly recommend giving them a spin.  They are cheaper and easy to get, and IMO sound better.  Not sure if that will still be true in a circuit not optimized for them, but that's true for any tube substitution I suppose.
> 
> I'm starting to think it might be good to investigate other transformer options too.  The Lundahls have this "shouty" quality sometimes.  It becomes a lot more noticeable once you are able to compare it to other things.


 

 DO you have the Lundahls? Prefer the normal?


----------



## dminches

xcalibur255 said:


> I'm starting to think it might be good to investigate other transformer options too.  The Lundahls have this "shouty" quality sometimes.  It becomes a lot more noticeable once you are able to compare it to other things.


 
  
 Define "shouty".  Personally, I love their sound.  I have them in both my Glenn 300B and a DAC.


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn is putting a Lundahl in my OTL


----------



## dminches

whirlwind said:


> Glenn is putting a Lundahl in my OTL


 
  
 I think you are talking about a power transformer.


----------



## whirlwind

dminches said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn is putting a Lundahl in my OTL
> ...


 
 Just noticed that....yep....my bad


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> Glenn is putting a Lundahl in my OTL


 
  
 And my 300B amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm just going to take a big step back and walk away.  Something I should have done quite some time ago.


----------



## 3083joe

xcalibur255 said:


> I'm just going to take a big step back and walk away.  Something I should have done quite some time ago.


 
?


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> I'm just going to take a big step back and walk away.  Something I should have done quite some time ago.


 
  
 I hope you don't take any of the replies as an attack. This forum only adds value if folks feel comfortable expressing their opinions. I might not agree with all the opinions expressed, but reading them can often be helpful.
  
 If you have issue/s with a particular transformer, particularly one that is going to go into my soon-to-be-built 300B amp, I am very interested in hearing/reading them.
  
 I might PM you.


----------



## 3083joe

Xcalibur255


tonynewman said:


> I hope you don't take any of the replies as an attack. This forum only adds value if folks feel comfortable expressing their opinions. I might not agree with all the opinions expressed, but reading them can often be helpful.
> 
> If you have issue/s with a particular transformer, particularly one that is going to go into my soon-to-be-built 300B amp, I am very interested in hearing/reading them.
> 
> I might PM you.



Agree. 
Want to know the same as well before a final decision.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> I'm starting to think it might be good to investigate other transformer options too.  The Lundahls have this "shouty" quality sometimes.  It becomes a lot more noticeable once you are able to compare it to other things.


 
 I don't know if you can compare a #45 amp to a 300B amp  1.5 watts vrs 8 watts.


----------



## 2359glenn

3083joe said:


> @Xcalibur255
> 
> 
> tonynewman said:
> ...


 
  


3083joe said:


> @Xcalibur255
> 
> 
> tonynewman said:
> ...


 

 Joe
 Yours is going to be a OTL using 6BL7s the lundahl transformer is the power transformer and it makes less magnetic field.
 Really has no affect on the sound. Other then the fact the TV damper diodes that are going to be used are better than
 any 5 volt 5U4 type rectifier. That may improve the sound. Haven't used them in a OTL before just in 300B amps
 Whirlwinds OTL will be the first OTL with TV damper diodes.


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> Joe
> Yours is going to be a OTL using 6BL7s the lundahl transformer is the power transformer and it makes less magnetic field.
> Really has no affect on the sound. Other then the fact the TV damper diodes that are going to be used are better than
> any 5 volt 5U4 type rectifier. That may improve the sound. Haven't used them in a OTL before just in 300B amps
> Whirlwinds OTL will be the first OTL with TV damper diodes.



awesome Glenn. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Khragon

Glenn,
  
 What do you think about copper vs silver Lundahl?
 I believed you built a silver one not long ago right? How does that compared to the copper version?


----------



## 2359glenn

Hi
  Yes I just finished a amp with all silver windings but it wasn't a lundahl . It sounded great but I haven't A-B it with a copper lundahl.
 I don't think it is worth the cost of the Lundahl in silver. That will triple the price of the amp. Don't think there will be enough return
 for the cost.
 The Lundahl transformers are about the best sounding you can get. Most studio equipment uses Lundahl transformers.


----------



## Neogeo333

2359glenn said:


> Hi
> Yes I just finished a amp with all silver windings but it wasn't a lundahl . It sounded great but I haven't A-B it with a copper lundahl.
> I don't think it is worth the cost of the Lundahl in silver. That will triple the price of the amp. Don't think there will be enough return
> for the cost.
> The Lundahl transformers are about the best sounding you can get. Most studio equipment uses Lundahl transformers.


 
 Maybe ask Jack from Electraprint for a quote on one of his full/partial silver opt.   Heard nothing but good things from him.   The silver custom opt that I got are from a guy in Malaysia.   Asked him to use also the double c core metglass material if I remember correctly.  That is of course if the owner decide to get a custom opt.   I for one was stupid for not asking the guy to make multiple secondaries so I can also use speakers.   Oh well lesson learned.   
  
 Hopefully one day when I move to the States maybe dminches and I can compare the sound of these amps.   And also listen to those Tak 300b tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

I like the magnetic field rejection of the Lundahl. Even though the Lundahl power transformer puts out very little magnetic field all transformers
 put out some. The Lundahl output transformers are wound to reject this 50/60 Hz magnetic field from power transformer.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> I like the magnetic field rejection of the Lundahl. Even though the Lundahl power transformer puts out very little magnetic field all transformers
> put out some. The Lundahl output transformers are wound to reject this 50/60 Hz magnetic field from power transformer.


 





 Cool, and the Lundahl metal enclosure also acts as a shield... I like my deep black background!


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I like the magnetic field rejection of the Lundahl. Even though the Lundahl power transformer puts out very little magnetic field all transformers
> ...


 

 Yes it helps the enclosure is made of steel blocks some magnetic field.


----------



## Silent One

As this is a thread where we can share and learn respectfully from one another, I was hoping to learn more from Xcalibur255. In the spirit of our hobby, if you're still following the thread, perhaps you'll return and share your recent experience with us.


----------



## 2359glenn

What happened to Ultrainferno I went to look at his post and he was gone
 Guess he got kicked off?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> What happened to Ultrainferno I went to look at his post and he was gone
> Guess he got kicked off?


 
 I don't know Glenn....his post was here a few minutes ago and it said that he would probably not be here for much longer, but people would know where to go to get in touch with him....facebook , I believe it said.
  
 Any new  news on my amp Glenn ?
  
 Can you tell I am getting antsy


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > What happened to Ultrainferno I went to look at his post and he was gone
> ...


 

 It will be ready soon I will send a PIC by the end of the weekend.
  
 When I clicked on the post it blew up and he was gone.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > 2359glenn said:
> ...


 
 Oh my....thanks for the update Glenn, can't wait to see the pic  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I know he mentioned facebook in his post, so I think you could probably contact him on there.......he may of said somewhere else too, but heck, I can't remember for sure


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Yeah no idea why my post was deleted, was just saying bye to everyone, not even linked anything. Bit ridiculous if you ask me


why are you leaving?


----------



## lukeap69

Ultra's post and mine were deleted? Hmmm, mysterious...


----------



## 3083joe

lukeap69 said:


> Ultra's post and mine were deleted? Hmmm, mysterious...



.........


----------



## 2359glenn

Whirlwind here are some pics of your amp.
 The unused socket is for 6SN7/12SN7/25SN7 when the C3g is not being used.


----------



## Khragon

Wow, very nice.  Another masterpiece Glenn.
  
 Can you give us some specs/features?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Have you switched to Luhndahl only, glenn?


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> Whirlwind here are some pics of your amp.
> The unused socket is for 6SN7/12SN7/25SN7 when the C3g is not being used.



Very nice. Might want the same. 
This doesn't have the 6 output tubes tho, right?


----------



## warchild

That is very impressive.


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Have you switched to Luhndahl only, glenn?


 

 Mostly
  For output transformers on 300B amps I will only use Lundahl due to there rejection of magnetic fields (hum pickup from power transformer)
 And there good frequency response.
 Of course they are expensive.


----------



## 2359glenn

3083joe said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Whirlwind here are some pics of your amp.
> ...


 

 No would need a larger chassis to fit that and the 6.3/12.6/25.2 switch and the 5998 bias switch and all the components that go with them.


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> No would need a larger chassis to fit that and the 6.3/12.6/25.2 switch and the 5998 bias switch and all the components that go with them.



Got ya.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Mostly
> For output transformers on 300B amps I will only use Lundahl due to there rejection of magnetic fields (hum pickup from power transformer)
> And there good frequency response.
> Of course they are expensive.


 
  
 Speaking about 300B amps...


----------



## lukeap69

1 amp down... that means mine is coming up on queue. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ...


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Mostly
> ...


 

 Tony
 I talked to Landfall systems and they said the chassis was shipped on Friday.
 We need to talk about the volume control.


----------



## TonyNewman

Sweet!! Please PM me on the volume thing


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Whirlwind here are some pics of your amp.
> The unused socket is for 6SN7/12SN7/25SN7 when the C3g is not being used.


 
 Glenn, I really am speechless, sir.
  
 It is going to be such an honor to own one of you amps....I have wanted one ever since I laid eyes on one.
  
 I am going to have so much fun.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn said:


> Whirlwind here are some pics of your amp.
> The unused socket is for 6SN7/12SN7/25SN7 when the C3g is not being used.


 
  
 Nice, Glenn.  Congrats to the new owner...
  
 Two little transformers, power supply chokes?


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes the power supply chokes.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Yes the power supply chokes.


 

 So Glenn this is where you hide sometimes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'll need to bookmark this thread.


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes the power supply chokes.
> ...


 

 Yes


----------



## Sfox7076

I am trying to digest this thread (no I don't mean all the food pics, but more on that later).  I have never been a headphone guy, but am thinking of diving in.  I don't have headphones yet, but will likely start looking into them soon.  I have an office that I would use this setup in.
  
 I am a tube lover/hoarder.  For outputs, I have 3 pairs of WE 275As, 2 pairs of WE 300Bs (One pair is NOS and will not be used), one pair of WE VT-52s, a bunch of RCA/Cunningham globe 45s, a bunch of 6A3s and a pair of JAN RCA 2A3s.  My main home amps are 1625 tube (12v heater 6L6 based design, but with cathode caps) driven by two 12SN7s (driver tube and phase inverter).  Needless to say, I own hundreds of 12SN7s and some 13D1s.  Even a few 6SN7s (none that are special) and some other oddball 12SN7 like tubes (mostly 2C50s).  Then I have a ton of 12au7s, including some pairs of the hard to find 7318s from CBS. Finally, I have a ton of 6N6P tubes, some 6dj8 variants and 6S45P tubes for my phono preamp.The 6S45Ps are awesome when you use them in a phono pre.  Not sure I would want them in a normal amp.  I have tons of 5 volt rectifiers (5U4s, 274Bs, 5R4s, 5V4s, 5AR4s, etc.). 
  
 Looking for suggestions on what may make sense in a build.  I see a lot of use of TV damper tubes, so the rectifier may not make sense.  for the drivers, 12AU7s and/or 12SN7s would be best, though the 2C50s may also work nicely. Obviously the C3g is a favorite here.  Then the I output tubes.   I would love some suggestions on potential builds.  Just kicking this around so I can have a smaller system in my office.
  
 Shawn


----------



## Neogeo333

Sounds like you want a amp that can roll with most of the tubes you own.  If that's the case skip the diodes and C3g.  Welcome to the thread.


----------



## TonyNewman

neogeo333 said:


> .... skip the diodes and *C3g*....


 
  
 The C3G is such a wonderful tube I would bend over backwards to try and find a way to include it in a custom amp. Fantastic driver.


----------



## Neogeo333

I'll soon find out if it's a good driver.   But with 6sn7 you have more options.   The 6.3v,12.6v and 25v.  Then you have the 7n7,6f8g.  Also the ecc31,Ecc32, ecc33 and ecc35.  Also the BL63/vr102.  That's a lot of options.   But I'm sure Glenn can come up with one that can take all the 6sn7 variants and also C3g.


----------



## TonyNewman

I have tried many (perhaps most?) drivers from the 6SN7 / 6SL7 / 6F8G / 6C8G family over the past 3 years. Only the NUs and TS RPs have stood out as great drivers. Really, really good tubes. The C3G *destroys *them. Not even close. The extra detail, dynamics, extension, clarity is a step change. My audio buddy puts it around 20% vs the TS RP in my WA5 with Takatsuki 300Bs/274Bs. I'm thinking more around 10-15%, but either way, those are huge numbers given that we are already at the pointy end of audio diminishing returns.
  
 The only thing the C3G doesn't do is add any warmth to the music - it is ultra transparent and neutral. In every other department that I can think of, it smashes anything else I have heard. Personally (and a big, fat YMMV applies here) I would not consider any other drive tube.


----------



## Sfox7076

I would want to try the C3G at some point.  I hate local tubes, but still willing to try them.  That said, I have TONS of 12sn7s and I am interested in what the 2C50 would do.


----------



## Neogeo333

tonynewman said:


> I have tried many (perhaps most?) drivers from the 6SN7 / 6SL7 / 6F8G / 6C8G family over the past 3 years. Only the NUs and TS RPs have stood out as great drivers. Really, really good tubes. The C3G *destroys *them. Not even close. The extra detail, dynamics, extension, clarity is a step change. My audio buddy puts it around 20% vs the TS RP in my WA5 with Takatsuki 300Bs/274Bs. I'm thinking more around 10-15%, but either way, those are huge numbers given that we are already at the pointy end of audio diminishing returns.
> 
> The only thing the C3G doesn't do is add any warmth to the music - it is ultra transparent and neutral. In every other department that I can think of, it smashes anything else I have heard. Personally (and a big, fat YMMV applies here) I would not consider any other drive tube.


 
 Tony, how do you compare the Tak 300b to other 300b tubes?  I have not heard a 300b in a very long long time.  Maybe last I heard one was like 13 years ago with a Rethm speaker and then it sounded glorious.


----------



## TonyNewman

neogeo333 said:


> Tony, how do you compare the Tak 300b to other 300b tubes?  I have not heard a 300b in a very long long time.  Maybe last I heard one was like 13 years ago with a Rethm speaker and then it sounded glorious.


 
  
 I am not the best person to ask as my 300B collection is quite limited (compared some others). Best alternate tube I have is the SERP. That's a good tube with good extension, but the Taks are better IMHO.
  
 There are folks out there that have heard the full gamut of vintage WE300B, reissue WE300B, Taks and others. They tell me that the Taks win. Similar midrange magic as the WEs, but combined with better extension.


----------



## gibosi

tonynewman said:


> I have tried many (perhaps most?) drivers from the 6SN7 / 6SL7 / 6F8G / 6C8G family over the past 3 years. Only the NUs and TS RPs have stood out as great drivers. Really, really good tubes. The C3G *destroys *them. Not even close. The extra detail, dynamics, extension, clarity is a step change. My audio buddy puts it around 20% vs the TS RP in my WA5 with Takatsuki 300Bs/274Bs. I'm thinking more around 10-15%, but either way, those are huge numbers given that we are already at the pointy end of audio diminishing returns.
> 
> The only thing the C3G doesn't do is add any warmth to the music - it is ultra transparent and neutral. In every other department that I can think of, it smashes anything else I have heard. Personally (and a big, fat YMMV applies here) I would not consider any other drive tube.


 
  
 It is my understanding that the 6SN7 isn't really up to the job of driving a 300B. And if my understanding is correct, it is not at all surprising that a C3g destroys them in your amp.... 
  
 For a different perspective, I have a 6AS7-based Glenn OTL designed to use either an SN7 (or similar double triode) or a pair of C3g. In this amp, neither the Lorenz or Siemens C3g have gotten much use recently. Primarily, this is because I am a "tone" guy. If vocals and instruments don't sound correct, then no amount of detail and resolution can compensate. And at least to my ears, the C3g just doesn't cut it. Further, there are a number of other tubes, such as the E88CC, and especially the E80CC, that can rival the C3g in resolution and in fact, are even more linear and have less distortion. Thus I have many, many high quality tubes to choose from. Until recently, the Sylvania 6SN7W occupied the driver socket most of the time. And at this time, an ECC31 is my go-to tube. The tone is correct and to my ears, I do not find it lacking in resolution.
  
 Don't get me wrong. The C3g is a wonderful addition to the Glenn OTL. But to my ears, it is but one of many equal, but different choices.
  
 Cheers


----------



## TonyNewman

gibosi said:


> It is my understanding that the 6SN7 isn't really up to the job of driving a 300B. And if my understanding is correct, it is not at all surprising that a C3g destroys them in your amp....
> 
> For a different perspective, I have a 6AS7-based Glenn OTL designed to use either an SN7 (or similar double triode) or a pair of C3g. In this amp, neither the Lorenz or Siemens C3g have gotten much use recently. Primarily, this is because I am a "tone" guy. If vocals and instruments don't sound correct, then no amount of detail and resolution can compensate. And at least to my ears, the C3g just doesn't cut it. Further, there are a number of other tubes, such as the E88CC, and especially the E80CC, that can rival the C3g in resolution and in fact, are even more linear and have less distortion. Thus I have many, many high quality tubes to choose from. Until recently, the Sylvania 6SN7W occupied the driver socket most of the time. And at this time, an ECC31 is my go-to tube. The tone is correct and to my ears, I do not find it lacking in resolution.
> 
> ...


 
   
The C3Gs in my WA5 do have a slightly elevated tone in my WA5. For my preferences that is a small price to pay for the glorious SQ these tubes deliver. The E80CC... etc are tubes I have never used (but they have my attention).


----------



## Neogeo333

tonynewman said:


> I am not the best person to ask as my 300B collection is quite limited (compared some others). Best alternate tube I have is the SERP. That's a good tube with good extension, but the Taks are better IMHO.
> 
> There are folks out there that have heard the full gamut of vintage WE300B, reissue WE300B, Taks and others. They tell me that the Taks win. Similar midrange magic as the WEs, but combined with better extension.


 
 Thats what I also heard when lurking in other forums.  The Tak is a very good tube.   
  
 About the C3g and other driver tubes, I guess it all depends on the circuit of the amp.  Using a pair of 50's RCA 6sn7 with support rods, it sounds wonderful in my Liquid Glass but not so good in my Glenn OTL.  Then some NU 6f8g sounds noisy in the LG but sounds great in the OTL.  Weird right?


----------



## TonyNewman

neogeo333 said:


> Thats what I also heard when lurking in other forums.  The Tak is a very good tube.
> 
> About the C3g and other driver tubes, I guess it all depends on the circuit of the amp.  Using a pair of 50's RCA 6sn7 with support rods, it sounds wonderful in my Liquid Glass but not so good in my Glenn OTL.  Then some NU 6f8g sounds noisy in the LG but sounds great in the OTL.  Weird right?


 

 Tried the 50s RCA - didn't do it for me. I have had a number of noisy NUs - seems to be around 30% of mine (6F8G). Not weird at all.


----------



## whirlwind

sfox7076 said:


> I would want to try the C3G at some point.  I hate local tubes, but still willing to try them.  That said, I have TONS of 12sn7s and I am interested in what the 2C50 would do.


 
 I am sure Glenn could make you something to use the great collection of tubes that you already have......heck with just the 6/12/25 switch you will be able to enjoy all of those 12SN7.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm so happy Clayton is coming to my wedding all the way from San Francisco 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Carry on.


----------



## whirlwind

ultrainferno said:


> I'm so happy Clayton is coming to my wedding all the way from San Francisco
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 So, this would be a good time for me to head to San Francisco and watch over all of Claytons audio gear


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> I'm so happy Clayton is coming to my wedding all the way from San Francisco
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congratulations Lieven wish I can come.
 We still have to all meet some ware we were going to do it at Stavros house a couple of years ago.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Congratulations Lieven wish I can come.
> We still have to all meet some ware we were going to do it at Stavros house a couple of years ago.


 
  
 Thank you Glenn and Eric
 Yes that would be great indeed: amps, good food, beer and strippers!


----------



## Sfox7076

Glenn, should I contact you to discuss tubes/an amp?  Now for food.  Bread I bake.  Sourdough Levain and Challah rolls.


----------



## Neogeo333

Congratulations to Ultra!   
  
 Sfox, those rolls looks delicious.   Care to share the recepie?   My kids love eating bread rolls.


----------



## 2359glenn

Now the thread is getting back on track
 FOOD
 Those rolls do look good.


----------



## Badas

sfox7076 said:


> Glenn, should I contact you to discuss tubes/an amp?  Now for food.  Bread I bake.  Sourdough Levain and Challah rolls.




I'm instantly hungry from looking at that pic.


----------



## Sfox7076

It is the RIch Sourdough Barches from Inside the Jewish Bakery, adapted by me and then made into rolls instead of two loves.  It's  a bit paler than most other Challah.


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> I'm instantly hungry from looking at that pic.


 

 X2
  
 I think this tread should also have a disclaimer: Caution, May Cause Weight Gain!


----------



## Sfox7076

We only eat the rolls on Friday nights.  The loaf of bread is a different story.  That gets eaten for breakfast a lot.  Have to start making two loves, but it is hard to have enough fridge space to have them rise.


----------



## ru4music

sfox7076 said:


> We only eat the rolls on Friday nights.  The loaf of bread is a different story.  That gets eaten for breakfast a lot.  Have to start making two loves, but it is hard to have enough fridge space to have them rise.


 

 FWIW - Fresh out of the oven (- minus a slight cool down period) with real butter... YUM!  That helps define the term: LIVING!  Looks exceptional, REALLY!!!  Hats-off to you providing your family/ friends with real baking.
  
 Didn't mean to barge into the topic but, I was surfing/ sniffing a thread near-by and could help but notice the smell!
  
 Enjoy the audio and then SUM,
  
 Ken


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Now the thread is getting back on track
> FOOD
> Those rolls do look good.


 
 Glenn, I see a new business opportunity/ Mantra:  "Man does not live by bread alone, but with @Sfox7076 baking; your audio will be a slice from heaven!"


----------



## Sfox7076

That is how I can move up the queue, bread. All kidding aside, it is a labor for my family. It became how we eat. When your 3 year old throws wonder bread away because it isn't bread, you have a bit of pride. 

Anyway, I am alternating my 275As and my 300bs in my big stereo system currently. Think I like the 275as better. It may free up my 300bs. Regardless, I am interested in talking advice from people here who have these amps.


----------



## whirlwind

sfox7076 said:


> Glenn, should I contact you to discuss tubes/an amp?  Now for food.  Bread I bake.  Sourdough Levain and Challah rolls.


 
 I would love to cut into that round loaf to have with my morning coffee.


----------



## lukeap69

...


----------



## lukeap69

Like this?



Or this?


----------



## whirlwind

Nothing near that fancy....McCafe  breakfast blend


----------



## parbaked

sfox7076 said:


> Regardless, I am interested in talking advice from people here who have these amps.


 
 My advice is to use your bread baking skills to move up in the queue.
 If you can make good cheese pies you might get to the front of the line.
 If Glenn is still watching his carbs you'll have to resort to bribing those queued in front of you.


----------



## Sfox7076

My bread is whole grain at least.  Well, the round one is.  Whole wheat, spelt, rye, and bread flour.  They are all local flours. So is the water.  I indulge using french salt.
  
 Shawn


----------



## parbaked

Quote:


sfox7076 said:


> My bread is whole grain at least.  Well, the round one is.  Whole wheat, spelt, rye, and bread flour.  They are all local flours. So is the water.  I indulge using french salt.
> 
> Shawn


 
 Your breads look fantastic...very impressive!


----------



## 3083joe

Really thinking for switching to the Glenn 300b from the otl..... Decisions decisions


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Really thinking for switching to the Glenn 300b from the otl..... Decisions decisions


 

 You just purchased the WA22. You have the bug bad.
  
 Don't worry a Glenn is on my list as well. Next year I think.
  
 I don't want a 300B amp tho. Too expensive. I have drawn the line.
  
 So I was going to talk to Glenn closer to the time about other options.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> You just purchased the WA22. You have the bug bad.
> 
> Don't worry a Glenn is on my list as well. Next year I think.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The expensive bits are the output transformer (Lundahl and a pair of TA300Bs. Once that pain has faded you left with 8W of class A goodness that will put a smile on yur face for many year (and drive anything out there including the HE6).


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> You just purchased the WA22. You have the bug bad.
> 
> Don't worry a Glenn is on my list as well. Next year I think.
> 
> ...



Yeah. I know. I'm on the list for otl but I keep think now that I have the wa22 maybe a 300b would be better. But them tubes.......$$$$$


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Yeah. I know. I'm on the list for otl but I keep think now that I have the wa22 maybe a 300b would be better. But them tubes.......$$$$$


 

 The Price of 300B's keep me away.
  
 I want to stay married.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Really thinking for switching to the Glenn 300b from the otl..... Decisions decisions


 

 Joe, make sure you take the time to enjoy what you have and where you're at.  These other options will still be there when your ready!  My advise would be to focus on the WA22 with all that glass you have accumulated; you'll know what direction to go when it's time.


----------



## 3083joe

Vital point!
 Thanks my friend


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> Joe, make sure you take the time to enjoy what you have and where you're at.  These other options will still be there when your ready!  My advise would be to focus on the WA22 with all that glass you have accumulated; you'll know what direction to go when it's time.


 

 Nice quote. Good advise.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Nice quote. Good advise.



Yeah. Might try and wait till next year at least.


----------



## musicman59

I am on Glenn's list for a fully loaded 300b but apparently it will not be until winter due to several other amps in front of mine.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Vital point!
> Thanks my friend


 
  
  


badas said:


> Nice quote. Good advise.


 
  
 Actually, I was quoting a fortune cookie that came with my Kung Pao Beef and Fried Wonton.  @Badas - Pssst, _*d*__*on't *_tell Joe! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Honestly though, I have seen so many people chase hardware and forget the real reason for their system(s); that is not only to listen to music, but to hear it as well.


----------



## ru4music

musicman59 said:


> I am on Glenn's list for a *fully loaded 300b *but apparently it will not be until winter due to several other amps in front of mine.


 
  What's the highlights?


----------



## 3083joe

musicman59 said:


> I am on Glenn's list for a fully loaded 300b but apparently it will not be until winter due to several other amps in front of mine.



Probably do the same.


----------



## TonyNewman

ru4music said:


> Actually, I was quoting a fortune cookie that came with my Kung Pao Beef and Fried Wonton.  @Badas - Pssst, _*d*__*on't *_tell Joe!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Bollix! Whoever dies with the nicest rig wins. Isn't that how it works?


----------



## ru4music

tonynewman said:


> Bollix! Whoever dies with the nicest rig wins. Isn't that how it works?


 

 Maybe, but you need to send me your rig so you can prove it!  This seems to be an ongoing issue with you...


----------



## TonyNewman

ru4music said:


> Maybe, but you need to send me your rig so you can prove it!  This seems to be an ongoing issue with you...


 
  
 Sure, just pop out to Auckland, New Zealand for pickup


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> 3083joe said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah. I know. I'm on the list for otl but I keep think now that I have the wa22 maybe a 300b would be better. But them tubes.......$$$$$
> ...


 

 A cheap pair of JJ300Bs sound will destroy even the best 6AS7 and for $220.


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> A cheap pair of JJ300Bs sound will destroy even the best 6AS7 and for $220.


 

 See. Now that's what makes you gold around here.
  
 Exactly what I will be looking for.
  
 Definitely get it sorted sooner rather than later.


----------



## longbowbbs

tonynewman said:


> ru4music said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, I was quoting a fortune cookie that came with my Kung Pao Beef and Fried Wonton.  @Badas - Pssst, _*d*__*on't *_tell Joe!
> ...


 
 Tony, Does this count? My Ultimate upgrade for my Cary SLI-80 just came in. 
  

  

  

  

  

 Hexfreds running the rectification. V-Caps, Greyhill switch, WBT's etc....It should hold me for a good while. Next best thing to a Glenn amp!


----------



## TonyNewman

Where's the 300Bs? How can I take that amp seriously without some 300Bs in it?


----------



## longbowbbs

tonynewman said:


> Where's the 300Bs? How can I take that amp seriously without some 300Bs in it?


 
 KT88's are the classics man!


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> A cheap pair of JJ300Bs sound will destroy even the best 6AS7 and for $220.



Was thinking the same thing. Might make the move with the time is right. 
Question 2359glenn
Have you seen we274b rebranded tung sol? 
Thanks.


----------



## TonyNewman

longbowbbs said:


> KT88's are the classics man!


 
  
 KT??? ... whatever. Need to feel the 300B love.


----------



## Sfox7076

I am not Glenn, but I am a bit of a collector.  I have never seen a Tung Sol 274b.  The only rebrand I have ever seen are Electronic Enterprises labeled 274Bs that were made by WE.  There are some later Electronic Enterprises (in 1956) that were made by WE, but the plates are slightly different than the normal WE 274B.  Then you have the Sylvania Navy 274B tubes, that largely predate the WE tubes.  The tube I am really interested in is the STC 274B version.  I have seen a few of the STC tubes, but never have heard one.


----------



## 2359glenn

longbowbbs said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > Where's the 300Bs? How can I take that amp seriously without some 300Bs in it?
> ...


 

 Aren't a PP pair of KT88/6550 a bit over kill for a headphone amp?
  
 Maybe a single triode wired KT88 much easier to work with and drive then a 300B.
  
 Personally I am not a PP guy prefer the sound of single ended.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > tonynewman said:
> ...


 
 Glenn, the SLI-80 is primarily a speaker amp (40 watts Triode/80 watts Ultralinear in 8Ohms). The fun for headphones is you get the full tube circuit with a resistor to step down the output. My primary tubed headphone amp is an ALO Audio Studio Six and it is SET.


----------



## 2359glenn

longbowbbs said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > longbowbbs said:
> ...


 

 Oh Mostly for speakers
 The best sounding KT88/6550 amp I herd was a Harman/Kardon Citation 2.
 Of course a little bias I used to work for Harman/Kardon
 But in there sound room a Cit 2 hooked to Tanoy speakers speaker's sounded fantastic.
 I wish I could get a beat up one and rebuild it. Or maybe just the transformers and build it.


----------



## longbowbbs

> Oh Mostly for speakers
> The best sounding KT88/6550 amp I herd was a Harman/Kardon Citation 2.
> Of course a little bias I used to work for Harman/Kardon
> But in there sound room a Cit 2 hooked to Tanoy speakers speaker's sounded fantastic.
> I wish I could get a beat up one and rebuild it. Or maybe just the transformers and build it.


 
 mmmmmm A Citation 2 and any Tannoy. Sweet!


----------



## 2359glenn

longbowbbs said:


> > Oh Mostly for speakers
> > The best sounding KT88/6550 amp I herd was a Harman/Kardon Citation 2.
> > Of course a little bias I used to work for Harman/Kardon
> > But in there sound room a Cit 2 hooked to Tanoy speakers speaker's sounded fantastic.
> ...


 

 Working there was a dream job but the pay sucked. Got to work with some of the best audio engineers in the world. 
 When I worked there they were no longer making The Cit2 but there were some around.
 It was all SS in the 70s but the SQ of the 2 blew all there newer SS stuff away.
 Of course all there stuff is now made in China.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > > Oh Mostly for speakers
> ...


 
 I liked the HK gear in the 70's. I have not listened to much of their gear in a long time. Kind of like Infinity speakers. They kind of disappeared.


----------



## 2359glenn

HK owned Tannoy Infinity JBL Ortofon cartridges
 Ortofon moved in when a tornado tore up there building a couple of blocks away. 
 Don't know how many of these companies are still part of HK.


----------



## longbowbbs

The Tannoy Arden's were one of the speakers along with the Snell Type A's that got me hooked on high end. I could not believe the quality of sound coming out of those small refrigerators!


----------



## 3083joe

sfox7076 said:


> I am not Glenn, but I am a bit of a collector.  I have never seen a Tung Sol 274b.  The only rebrand I have ever seen are Electronic Enterprises labeled 274Bs that were made by WE.  There are some later Electronic Enterprises (in 1956) that were made by WE, but the plates are slightly different than the normal WE 274B.  Then you have the Sylvania Navy 274B tubes, that largely predate the WE tubes.  The tube I am really interested in is the STC 274B version.  I have seen a few of the STC tubes, but never have heard one.



Pics


----------



## Sfox7076

I just saw one of those pop up on Ebay.  I have 40s and 50s 274Bs from Western Electric and Sylvania.  The mica plates on the top are a dead giveaway that that tube was made by Sylvania.  You can see pictures of the Sylvania one like I have in this Japanese auction:  http://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=f155796427  That is the same as the Tung Sol pics you posted. The mica on the WE tubes look like this:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-vintage-Western-Electric-274B-with-square-getters-5752-5852-/252040439379?hash=item3aaec7e653.  Another issue I see with that tube is that I have never seen WE use an etched side on a 274B, and certainly not a stop sign.  The font mismatch on the base for Tung Sol and 274b unnerves me a bit as well.  So I cannot say definitively that the ones you sent are not WE made.  But, well, they look a lot more like the Sylvania 274B tubes than the WE made 274B tubes.  I would not be shocked if that is a rebase of a Sylvania with someone doctoring an old Tung Sol octal socket or, possibly, Tung Sol rebranded a few many years in the past.  Regardless, I would not buy it as a WE tube.    If you can get it for $150-$250, it would be worth it to compare it to a Sylvania up close as  it is also a good sounding tube.  Probably my 304th favorite rectifier.  But, well, there is a difference in sound between the WE and the Sylvania.  At least in my applications.
  
 I will note that the Sylvania 274b tubes were made in the 1940s for the war effort.  Most I have seen are 1942-1943, predating most of the WE 274B tubes on the market.


----------



## 3083joe

sfox7076 said:


> I just saw one of those pop up on Ebay.  I have 40s and 50s 274Bs from Western Electric and Sylvania.  The mica plates on the top are a dead giveaway that that tube was made by Sylvania.  You can see pictures of the Sylvania one like I have in this Japanese auction:  http://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=f155796427  That is the same as the Tung Sol pics you posted. The mica on the WE tubes look like this:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-vintage-Western-Electric-274B-with-square-getters-5752-5852-/252040439379?hash=item3aaec7e653.  Another issue I see with that tube is that I have never seen WE use an etched side on a 274B, and certainly not a stop sign.  The font mismatch on the base for Tung Sol and 274b unnerves me a bit as well.  So I cannot say definitively that the ones you sent are not WE made.  But, well, they look a lot more like the Sylvania 274B tubes than the WE made 274B tubes.  I would not be shocked if that is a rebase of a Sylvania with someone doctoring an old Tung Sol octal socket or, possibly, Tung Sol rebranded a few many years in the past.  Regardless, I would not buy it as a WE tube.    If you can get it for $150-$250, it would be worth it to compare it to a Sylvania up close as  it is also a good sounding tube.  Probably my 304th favorite rectifier.  But, well, there is a difference in sound between the WE and the Sylvania.  At least in my applications.
> 
> I will note that the Sylvania 274b tubes were made in the 1940s for the war effort.  Most I have seen are 1942-1943, predating most of the WE 274B tubes on the market.



Thanks so much.


----------



## Sfox7076

I meant base, not socket, but you got what I meant.


----------



## Sfox7076

Also, be careful, there are a lot of old 274B fakes that are Sylvania's (or worse) with either rebases or fake bases.  One way to tell is often the font on the tube or the date code.  As far as I know, if WE made it with a WE label and it is post 1946 it will have a date code that is either three or four digits.  The last two digits will be 13, 26, 39 or 52.  That corresponds to the quarter of the year the tube was made.  From 1946 through the first quarter of 1956, only the last digit of the year was used, so first quarter of 1947 will be 713. Post 1956, it will be the two digit year, so 5713.  There is potentially some overlap in the first quarter of 1956, so that a 613 could be first quarter of either 1946 or 1956, but that is the only overlap.  I have seen some of the oddest date codes out there.  Mostly on hanging filament 5U4Gs that have been rebased or altered. People also don't take kindly to you when you tell them there tube is questionable, so you don't want it anymore...   For me, the fun comes with the engraved glass top tubes.  The dates are marked by weird etchings in the glass bottom.  
  
 Back to the 274B, there are always ones that make me scratch my head.  This one looks right to me construction wise, but the label is off for the date code and the font of the tube type (not to mention it looks a bit wavy).  Maybe because it is a Jan tube it is different?  I don't know, but it would keep me away:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-JAN-274B-with-square-getters-323-/331640021494?hash=item4d374921f6&nma=true&si=MtB%252FoxSSdPGIvp7bjWVhJcq4RRk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557, 
  
 OK, back to the Glenn amps. What is your favorite output tube and why?
  
 Shawn


----------



## 3083joe

Sfox7076
As for output tubes. Honesty I'm not sure. 
I did read a review where a guy was using Glenn's amp with 6 output tubes.


----------



## Sfox7076

6 is crazy unless that is just rolling tubes. If there are 6 sockets to fill, I would spend too much in tubes, unless they were all 12SN7s or 13D1s.


----------



## gibosi

sfox7076 said:


> 6 is crazy unless that is just rolling tubes. If there are 6 sockets to fill, I would spend too much in tubes, unless they were all 12SN7s or 13D1s.


 
  
 http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/42754587-building-a-reference-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/42754587-building-a-reference-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier



Funny I was just posting that. 
Anyways here's what it had 

 Six 6BL7 tubes or
- Six 6SN7 tubes
- Two or four 6AS7 tubes
- Two 6336 tubes


----------



## Sfox7076

OTL. That explains it. Never owned an OTL amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

sfox7076 said:


> OTL. That explains it. Never owned an OTL amp.


 

 The six 6BL7s sound the best and they can be gotten for $6 or $8 each for new RCAs
 cheaper then premium 6AS7s


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn, have you built any OTL with EL86 tubes? Reckon they would sound good?


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I'm so happy Clayton is coming to my wedding all the way from San Francisco
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes. I'm looking forward to being at your wedding. Sorry we couldn't get together last month when I was in Amsterdam. So, I return to Europe in November to drink beer with you again! Fun!
  
 By the way, I am still looking for some dance shoes. 
  


whirlwind said:


> So, this would be a good time for me to head to San Francisco and watch over all of Claytons audio gear


 
  
 I've built an underground bunker to protect my gear. Although, if you're in town, drop on by to give a listen or three.


----------



## gibosi

I present an FDD20, manufactured in the early 1940's by Philips Italy, which I strongly suspect is simply a 6N7 with a different heater (13V) and a different base (P8A). Shown here running at 12.6 volts in a Glenn OTL using a simple pin adapter from eBay.
  

  
 And now back to our regular programming of food and weddings.


----------



## Sfox7076

Here is another example of a Sylvania faked into a WE.  I am done posting on this, but here you go:  http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w124821733


----------



## 3083joe

sfox7076 said:


> Here is another example of a Sylvania faked into a WE.  I am done posting on this, but here you go:  http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w124821733


 

 WOW


----------



## prot

sfox7076 said:


> Here is another example of a Sylvania faked into a WE.  I am done posting on this, but here you go:  http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w124821733


To be fair, the ProductInformation section of that page states quite clearly 
"The state of the product: Junk" 
Google translate is so smart sometimes


----------



## ru4music

sfox7076 said:


> Here is another example of a Sylvania faked into a WE.  I am done posting on this, but here you go:  http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w124821733


 
  
  


prot said:


> To be fair, the ProductInformation section of that page states quite clearly
> "The state of the product: Junk"
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Web page Description (translated to English):
Description of item    Is 274B. It is a Western Electric of print, but I think that it is a rolling ball. The etching of the 274B to the tube wall? there is. Because I think that it is not real, it is junk. It was confirmed in the actual operation. Base just move a little. Other than the failure by transportation, any case, I need your help by NC.


----------



## Sfox7076

I know, but I am sure it was not sold as a fake originally.


----------



## ru4music

sfox7076 said:


> I know, but I am sure it was not sold as a fake originally.


 

 Agreed, good example of a counterfeit to help educate everyone.  Posted a little more info as I found it interesting.


----------



## whirlwind

This thread needs to get back on topic.......................


----------



## parbaked

We had a nice tapas meal at Contigo in SF...
  

 Sangria with rosemary and pomegranate 
  

 croqueta de jamon serrano...sick!
  

 marinated local anchovies, pickled onions, avocado toast
  

  coca = spanish pizza
  

  
 monterey xipirons (squid) a la planxa


----------



## whirlwind

That pizza looks fantastic!


----------



## Badas

whirlwind said:


> That pizza looks fantastic!


 
  
 Agreed. It is 5 minutes before lunch here (New Zealand). I saw that and it was instant hunger.


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> Agreed. It is 5 minutes before lunch here (New Zealand). I saw that and it was instant hunger.


 
  
  


whirlwind said:


> That pizza looks fantastic!


 

 YUM!


----------



## TonyNewman

Bugger the food, people. I want to get face down in a big bucket of this:


----------



## Badas

^
  

  
  
 Those C3G's look so good stripped. No base and no clothing.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ^
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Really tempted to post a pic that would get me instantly banned...


----------



## Ultrainferno

whirlwind said:


> This thread needs to get back on topic.......................


 
  
  
 Stella, my favorite Belgian lager. After the operation I had, I can't have any beer or alcohol for a while. It's so depressing


----------



## whirlwind

ultrainferno said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > This thread needs to get back on topic.......................
> ...


 
 I will tip one for you, Ultra.  
  
 Get well, soon.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Stella, my favorite Belgian lager. After the operation I had, I can't have any beer or alcohol for a while. It's so depressing


 
  
 Then I will be having quite a few Stellas with you soon, my friend!


----------



## ru4music

tonynewman said:


> Bugger the food, people. I want to get face down in a big bucket of this:


 

 Hope you guys use the same Dentist (*bon appetit**!*):


----------



## dminches

tonynewman said:


> Really tempted to post a pic that would get me instantly banned...


 
  
 Selah looks even better now with a pair of Takatsukis.
  
 This amp is Glenn's masterpiece.


----------



## ru4music

dminches said:


> Selah looks even better now with a pair of Takatsukis.
> 
> This amp is Glenn's masterpiece.


 

 +1
  
 That may very well be my next upgrade path (i.e. a Glenn Amp similar to Selah (300b/ C3g/ C3m)).


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> +1
> 
> That may very well be my next upgrade path (i.e. a Glenn Amp similar to Selah (300b/ C3g/ C3m)).



Mine also.


----------



## Sfox7076

I am joining the queue (I hope Glenn agrees to have me).  I will go down the 300B path as well.  I am likely to order a new pair of TA-300Bs to compare to my Western Electric 300B pairs once the time comes.


----------



## 3083joe

sfox7076 said:


> I am joining the queue (I hope Glenn agrees to have me).  I will go down the 300B path as well.  I am likely to order a new pair of TA-300Bs to compare to my Western Electric 300B pairs once the time comes.


 

 Yeah think I'm switching to 300b  TA300 and WE300 very nice and expensive.....


----------



## Khragon

sfox7076 said:


> I am joining the queue (I hope Glenn agrees to have me).  I will go down the 300B path as well.  I am likely to order a new pair of TA-300Bs to compare to my Western Electric 300B pairs once the time comes.


 

 Nice, I have a pair of WE300B as well, also have the Elrog 300B which I sent to Glenn so he could try it out and also use it to test out with amp for me.  I'm right after Tony... oh the wait! it will be worth it though.  I plan to get TA-300B as well as SERP 300B, and do a WWIII shoot out, TA-300Bs (Japan) vs. WE300B (US) vs. Elrog 300B (Germany) vs. SERP 300B (China).


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> sfox7076 said:
> 
> 
> > I am joining the queue (I hope Glenn agrees to have me).  I will go down the 300B path as well.  I am likely to order a new pair of TA-300Bs to compare to my Western Electric 300B pairs once the time comes.
> ...


 

 Cant wait for the shootout!!


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Cant wait for the shootout!!




Me too  but first got to have the amp. Must be patience, must be patience. Have you got a chance to give the elrog a listen yet Glenn? What are your thoughts?


----------



## Sfox7076

I have heard Elrogs can be prone to failure. Have they fixed that issue?


----------



## Khragon

I honestly don't know. I received my replacement recently and when I asked if elrog fixed the problem, the answer was yes, but when I inquired for more information, he doesn't know specifically what elrog fixed. 

But, elrog is offering me 2 years warranty, so think I good, except my attempt to contact elrog haven't been very successful, haha so... We'll see.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> I honestly don't know. I received my replacement recently and when I asked if elrog fixed the problem, the answer was yes, but when I inquired for more information, he doesn't know specifically what elrog fixed.
> 
> But, elrog is offering me 2 years warranty, so think I good, except my attempt to contact elrog haven't been very successful, haha so... We'll see.


 
  
 Please let us know if you have any further issues with the ER300Bs.
  
 Do the bases look any different than the failed tubes? A theory on the failures that has been put to me is that Elrog made a change in the bases that had poor pin alignment, putting stress on the tube leading to early loss of vacuum and bad things happening. If the bases have been changed that might be a step in the right direction.
  
 [disclaimer - this is all hearsay from me - I do not own any Elrog tubes at the moment. I would like to, once I am confident in the product]


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > I honestly don't know. I received my replacement recently and when I asked if elrog fixed the problem, the answer was yes, but when I inquired for more information, he doesn't know specifically what elrog fixed.
> ...


 

 I still think it was the amps they were in blowing these tubes. Khragon I haven't tried them in my amps yet because the amps don't have regulated filament
 voltage. The first amp I will put them in will be Tony's I know they will be safe with regulated filament voltage. And this amp will be the same as yours.
 I don't want to put them in a amp that the voltage can go over 5 if the line voltage is hot when I put them in.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> I still think it was the amps they were in blowing these tubes. Khragon I haven't tried them in my amps yet because the amps don't have regulated filament
> voltage. The first amp I will put them in will be Tony's I know they will be safe with regulated filament voltage. And this amp will be the same as yours.
> I don't want to put them in a amp that the voltage can go over 5 if the line voltage is hot when I put them in.


 
  
 I might just have to get some ER300Bs and be the guinea pig then


----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn said:


> I still think it was the amps they were in blowing these tubes. Khragon I haven't tried them in my amps yet because the amps don't have regulated filament
> voltage. The first amp I will put them in will be Tony's I know they will be safe with regulated filament voltage. And this amp will be the same as yours.
> I don't want to put them in a amp that the voltage can go over 5 if the line voltage is hot when I put them in.


 
  
 Got mine to climb over 6V (turned off immediately so not sure what's the max) at a setting when others (EML/Black Treasures) were just perfect at 5V.  I think the filament resistance was a little bit off.
  
 Mine running at 5V so far so good, at ~800 hrs.  I noticed that they do take time (`30 min) to reach full steady state/max current draw.
  
 Much better than the Black Treasures and EML300B XLS, but am interesting to hear Glenn's take versus WE/SE/TA.


----------



## 2359glenn

Scoob you hit it right on the nose.
 In a circuit that just uses resistors and capacitors for the 300B filament the resistors drop the voltage
 according to the current draw of the 300B filament. If the filament is higher resistance it will draw less
 current and the resistors will drop less voltage. Making over voltage on the filament.
  
 Not so easy to measure this has to be done with a hot filament. I will do this when I have time put a resistor
 in series set the filament to 5 volts measure the voltage drop across the resistor and calculate the resistance.
 I will do this with the Elrog and other 300Bs and compare the resistance readings.
  
 By the way how does the Elrog sound ???? Normally I think throated tungsten tubes sound great.


----------



## Khragon

Elrog sounded very smooth when I had it running on WA5, I would say better than WE300B, however it's a tad bass light, I don't have a problem with that though, not a bass head by any mean, most of my tracks are folks vocal songs.
  
 Elrog tested really weird on my TV-7 tester using 300B settings, but I think that's just the way thoriated filament test.


----------



## 2359glenn

I am going to do the resistance measurement on the Elrogs to find out if there resistance is higher then other 300Bs.
 That way we will know if it is the amps blowing these tubes. Even though nobody will want to know there expensive
 amps are blowing these tubes.
 I think a amp running them on AC off a dedicated 5 volt winding off the power transformer they will be OK.
 The 5 volts will stay the same regardless of the current draw in this type circuit.
 But all these amps will be for speakers running them on AC will have to much hum for headphones.
  
 Maybe your new Elrogs will match other 300Bs and that is the fix?


----------



## Khragon

Thanks Glenn, that will be valuable data for the community.


----------



## Sfox7076

That is an interesting question.  Should they change the resistance to "normalize" their tube?  I think they would have to as they will sell a lot fewer tubes if they only work in select amps.
  
 Glenn, where can you find the queue for a build from you?  I just wonder how deep the list is.


----------



## 2359glenn

sfox7076 said:


> That is an interesting question.  Should they change the resistance to "normalize" their tube?  I think they would have to as they will sell a lot fewer tubes if they only work in select amps.
> 
> Glenn, where can you find the queue for a build from you?  I just wonder how deep the list is.


 

 If they are selling it as a 300B it should have the specs of a 300B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 But a amp that supposed to have 5 volts at the 300B socket should have 5 volts. There can be inconsistency in
 the manufacture of any of these tubes that are direct heated.
 The only tubes with exact filament resistance were the ones made to be in series string in line operated TVs
 and radios.
  
 The list is pretty deep at this point


----------



## Sko0byDoo

> The only tubes with exact filament resistance were the ones made to be in series string in line operated TVs
> and radios.


 
 Interesting, like those 0.1% resistors, cost an arm and a leg...
  
 On the spec sheet, ER tubes get rated same as WE300B (5V+/-5%, 1.2A).  Though, +20% over-spec (what I experienced) is kinda too much for manufacturing variations.
  
 AC heater is simplest but with hum noise, regulated DC is good but the cathode AC low freq signal will get "regulated" too, so SQ degrades.  High freq AC heater is best but complicated circuit, can't buy it pre-built.


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> > The only tubes with exact filament resistance were the ones made to be in series string in line operated TVs
> > and radios.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Just hook the regulator to the heater and take the cathode off one side of the heater. The signal does not go through
 the regulator. I ground one side through a milliamp meter to read cathode current and to set the bias.
 I am not one to use a cathode resistor bypassed with a electrolytic capacitor. Sounds better with fixed bias and
 leaving that nasty sounding stuff out.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

I haven't tried regulated DC with fixed-bias yet; always have done the bypass cap and all that nasty sounding stuffs   Well, I have only 1 amp like this, too lazy to convert to fixed-bias.    
  
 With fixed regulated DC, you shouldn't have any problem with the ER then, I would imagine.  The regulator will keep the output voltage at 5V regardless of the current draw.


----------



## Sfox7076

I don't mind a deep line.  I have waited a long time for stuff in the past.  Can I confirm I am on the list though?
  
 As to the Elrogs, I think that it is a business point.  If they fail in many amps, Elrog would be better served to change them so they don't have to deal with warranty claims.  Unless they are going to have a certified amp list and no warranty claims honored unless the failure happens in a certified amp.  It would just be too costly.


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> I might just have to get some ER300Bs and be the guinea pig then :wink_face:



You can get my replacement tubes I just received from Elrog (still sealed in the package) for a discounted price.....


----------



## Sfox7076

FYI: Tak has increased prices by 5,000 yen per tube.


----------



## 3083joe

sfox7076 said:


> FYI: Tak is increased prices by 5,000 yen per tube.


 

 Yep, Mike was telling me to order before they did


----------



## ru4music

sfox7076 said:


> FYI: Tak has increased prices by 5,000 yen per tube.


 

 That's about a $41.50 US increase per tube based on today's exchange rates.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Yep, Mike was telling me to order before they did


 

 Did you order some Taks?  Who from if you did?


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> Did you order some Taks?  Who from if you did?


 

 I didn't but i was going to from woo


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> That's about a $41.50 US increase per tube based on today's exchange rates.


 

 Thats not to bad


----------



## Sko0byDoo

ru4music said:


> That's about a $41.50 US increase per tube based on today's exchange rates.


 
  
 Damn, was thinking of waiting until the holiday bonus to order a set.  +$100/set now...may be yen will drop from now to then to offset this extra?


----------



## Sfox7076

Right. Just an FYI.


----------



## dminches

According to pricejapan the Tak TA-300Bs have been discontinued.  They are anticipating a new "model."


----------



## Sfox7076

Yep.  And at current prices/exchange rate, you are talking $1420 or so.


----------



## TonyNewman

dminches said:


> According to pricejapan the Tak TA-300Bs have been discontinued.  They are anticipating a new "model."


 
  
 A 300B even better than the existing TA300B? That will be some tube. The current/discontinued TA300B is a stunning piece of kit.


----------



## Neogeo333

Then again newer not always equal better.  But given Takatsuki reputation its most likely they are better.


----------



## ru4music

tonynewman said:


> A 300B even better than the existing TA300B? That will be some tube. The current/discontinued TA300B is a stunning piece of kit.


 

 Yes, what are the changes etc.?  I hope this isn't like the WE300B and the reissue WE300B.  Oh please not, oh please not... IMHO .. I doubt it!


----------



## Khragon

ru4music said:


> Yes, what are the changes etc.?  I hope this isn't like the WE300B and the reissue WE300B.  Oh please not, oh please not... IMHO .. I doubt it!




Nothing wrong with the reissue we300b, but I doubt this is a reissue, not like tak went out of business and then returned like western electric


----------



## Sko0byDoo

According to Amtrans website (distro for Takatsuki), via Google translation, 300B production is being delayed until late October (unclear whether this is related to the new model).  It seems that you can order a set now for 158,400 yen, including tax.  With Japan sale tax ~8%, so ~146,000 yen.  I believe PriceJapan order theirs through Amtrans and forward to us here in the US.  Anyone try to order directly through Amtrans yet?         
  
 http://www.amtrans.co.jp/sales-products/tube/


----------



## JamesBr

sfox7076 said:


> Yep.  And at current prices/exchange rate, you are talking $1420 or so.


 
 still OK IMO!!...


----------



## TonyNewman

If it really is an improved version it makes me wonder what they can improve. Those fortunate few that I am aware of that have heard the various tubes describe the TA300B as having similar midrange magic as the vintage WE300B combined with superior extension (both directions). How do you top that? Going to be interesting to find out.


----------



## 2359glenn

Well I have two amps to pack up this weekend.
 You know what that means Tony


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Well I have two amps to pack up this weekend.
> You know what that means Tony


 
  
 My build is starting? Hooray!!! Really looking forward to getting my hands on this baby: C3G driving TA300Bs. My WA5 doesn't do it quite right.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> My build is starting? Hooray!!! Really looking forward to getting my hands on this baby: C3G driving TA300Bs. My WA5 doesn't do it quite right.



Very nice. 
Look forward to my turn. Might be beginning of yr before mine starts but that's ok!


----------



## ru4music

tonynewman said:


> My build is starting? Hooray!!! Really looking forward to getting my hands on this baby: C3G driving TA300Bs. My WA5 doesn't do it quite right.


 

 Really looking towards your impressions with that build!


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> Well I have two amps to pack up this weekend.
> You know what that means Tony


 
  
 Please post some pictures!


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Well I have two amps to pack up this weekend.
> ...


 

 I will take some pic before I box them and post.


----------



## Neogeo333

Please do.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Well I have two amps to pack up this weekend.
> ...


 

 The key to a good sounding tube amp is the transformers.
 LUNDAHL
  
 Will be starting your amp this week Tony.


----------



## 2359glenn

Here is the 300B


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Here is the 300B


 
  
 Looks like the same spec as mine - C3Gs -> 300Bs with PY500 rectifiers. Yummy.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the 300B
> ...


 

 Same tubes different transformers these are 100% silver except for the one in the middle. that is a Lundahl power transformer.


----------



## musicman59

2359glenn said:


> Here is the 300B


 
 That is exactly the tubes complement I am planning to start with when you get to mine Glenn. I have two pairs of the AVVT 300B(32B-SL) but I am planing on the TA300B later


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Same tubes different transformers these are 100% silver except for the one in the middle. that is a Lundahl power transformer.


 

 Nice!


----------



## Khragon

Very nice.  One more step closer for me!  I started to miss the 300B sound signature after having sold my WA5.  Looking forward to Glenn's 300B.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Very nice.  One more step closer for me!  I started to miss the 300B sound signature after having sold my WA5.  Looking forward to Glenn's 300B.


 

 I did get in the large selector switch to switch impedance in your amp.


----------



## Sfox7076

Wow. Who made the silver transformers? What values does the impedance switch select (how many ohms)?


----------



## 2359glenn

sfox7076 said:


> Wow. Who made the silver transformers? What values does the impedance switch select (how many ohms)?


 

 Not sure who made them the owner had them custom wound.
 The impedance switch is for 8 ohm for speakers 40 ohm or 120 ohm for headphones.


----------



## Sfox7076

Awesome.


----------



## gibosi

Recently, there was some discussion about using an 845 in a headphone amp. Well, here you go...  The Viva Audio Egoista
  
 http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2014/10/25/review-viva-audio-egoista-headphone-amplifier/
  
 It looks to be a real beast and it can be yours for about $10k


----------



## whirlwind

I got it today....wow....I am 57 years old and this is the best job of packing a box that I have seen in my life!
  
 Thanks, Glenn


----------



## lukeap69

Tease... tease...


----------



## whirlwind

Built like a tank.....wife was afraid to lift it  
  
 That is probably a good thing


----------



## Khragon

Very nice! congrats.
  
 How does it sound?


----------



## longbowbbs

whirlwind said:


> Built like a tank.....wife was afraid to lift it
> 
> That is probably a good thing


 
 Wow that amp looks sweet! Congrats!


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Built like a tank.....wife was afraid to lift it
> 
> That is probably a good thing


 
 Okay, I am now officially envious!


----------



## Badas

Wow. 

Congrats.


----------



## Neogeo333

another great amp from Glenn.  Is that the first out with the Lundahl transformer?


----------



## dminches

Maybe the first OTL with a Lundahl. My 300B has 2 Lundahl output and 1 power transformers.


----------



## Neogeo333

Mine only has one Lundahl power tranny two silver wound opt.
Too bad i cant use them yet.


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks everybody.
  
  
 Quote:


khragon said:


> Very nice! congrats.
> 
> How does it sound?


 
 It sounds wonderful, I am fully enjoying my favorite albums at this time.
  
 I will have more impressions later , especially when I start rolling some tubes.....but it will have to wait awhile as I am just to darned hooked on this sound so far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


neogeo333 said:


> another great amp from Glenn.  Is that the first out with the Lundahl transformer?


 
 Glenn has told me that this is the first OTL with a Lundahl transformer...but he using them in his 300B amps.


----------



## 3083joe

whirlwind said:


> Built like a tank.....wife was afraid to lift it
> 
> That is probably a good thing



Congrats. Enjoy it!!


----------



## dminches

What is the voltage drop with a 596 and why does voltage drop matter?


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> What is the voltage drop with a 596 and why does voltage drop matter?


 
  
 The voltage drop of a 596 is about the same as a 5U4 50volts this drop changes the B+
 changing the operating point of the amp tubes. This is why rectifiers sound different
 Different voltage drops. No sound goes through the rectifier it just changes AC from the
 Power transformer to DC.
 I like tubes with the lowest voltage drop Damper diodes and tubes like GZ34 . GZ37
 3DG4
 Some guitar amps use this voltage drop to cause sag in the B+ causing desired distortion.


----------



## dminches

Thanks Glenn.


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> The voltage drop of a 596 is about the same as a 5U4 50volts this drop changes the B+
> changing the operating point of the amp tubes. This is why rectifiers sound different
> Different voltage drops. No sound goes through the rectifier it just changes AC from the
> Power transformer to DC.
> ...



You use 3dg4s in your amps?


----------



## Neogeo333

Thats why 5r4 tubes sound more mellow to me than GZ37 or 3dg4.


----------



## 3083joe

neogeo333 said:


> Thats why 5r4 tubes sound more mellow to me than GZ37 or 3dg4.



Yes the 5r4 brimar was very nice. 
Wonder what this has to do with me loving the cossor 53KU fat bottle? Or the we422a.


----------



## TonyNewman

Hi Glenn - any sexy amp porn pics from my 300B amp build that can be shared with the rabble (your rabid attack fanbase)?


----------



## Neogeo333

3083joe said:


> Yes the 5r4 brimar was very nice.
> Wonder what this has to do with me loving the cossor 53KU fat bottle? Or the we422a.


 
 The real 53KU or fat bottle from Cossor are very good too.  The Mullard 53KU or GZ37 are one step behind but it really
 depend the type of music you playing.  I like rock and pop better with the Mullards and Jazz vocal with Cossor or potato smasher 5r4gy.


----------



## 3083joe

Yeah the cossor 53KU with jazz is wonderful!


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> Thats why 5r4 tubes sound more mellow to me than GZ37 or 3dg4.


 

 The 5R4 has the highest voltage drop of all of them


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> Hi Glenn - any sexy amp porn pics from my 300B amp build that can be shared with the rabble (your rabid attack fanbase)?


 

 No not yet I have been doing honey do things between amps like redoing the closet in the bedroom. Now that is finished
 I will start the build.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> No not yet I have been doing honey do things between amps like redoing the closet in the bedroom. Now that is finished
> I will start the build.


 
  
 The list that never ends. I know it well...


----------



## whirlwind

My list is going to get soooooo much bigger...because i can't stay away from my new amp


----------



## whirlwind

Good lawrd  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Who would have thunk the HD800's to have this much bass slam!
  
 Very punchy and such a sweet sound!
  
 Props to you, Glenn  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 RCA 42EC4......Tungsol 5998........Ken Rad 6SN7GT Black Glass
  
 I am also so happy to report,  everything is dead quiet...no hum at all.
  
 Now back to enjoying the music.


----------



## Badas

whirlwind said:


> Good lawrd
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's looking so nice.
  
 My project next year. Do you mind me asking the ruff build price so I can budget?
  
 How do you find that rectifier compared to others you have tried?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Boy, I bet a few of us could plan a group build for next year.  And we can all order a "Whirlwind"....
  
 I'd love to learn more about this build too Glenn.


----------



## Badas

buttuglyjeff said:


> Boy, I bet a few of us could plan a group build for next year.  And we can all order a "Whirlwind"....
> 
> I'd love to learn more about this build too Glenn.


 

 Whirlwind. Nice name for a amp.


----------



## Khragon

badas said:


> Whirlwind. Nice name for a amp.


 
 +1.   I like a Whirlwind too.


----------



## jhljhl

Can anyone compare the sound of the standard glenn otl amp to the wa2 amp?  thanks.


----------



## TonyNewman

I'll have a guess at that:
  
*Glenn Amp:*
  

  
*WA2:*


----------



## Badas




----------



## jhljhl

I ask because there is a glenn amp in the classifieds and I'd like to know what the difference is in term of the otl sound?  I also have a csp2+ so I can also reference that.


----------



## gibosi

Dubstep Girl, who has a good bit of experience with Woo amps was able to spend some time with a Glenn OTL. Her comments might be useful:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/6255#post_9959381


----------



## 3083joe

This get me. 
Want Glenn amp asap. 

Via Dubstep Girl
" i have all sorts of impressions on the other tubes, but as soon as i put this tube in. it just hits me, that air, that emotion, almost brings you to tears as soon as you hear it, its beautiful, the music, its unreal, its so pure, the tone is the most beautiful i've heard, the details, the holography, it just so good, i can't even describe it, it just draws you in to the music and you don't want to do anything else but just listen and connect. "


----------



## 3083joe

In line now. 
300b vs otl is my only decision!


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> Dubstep Girl, who has a good bit of experience with Woo amps was able to spend some time with a Glenn OTL. Her comments might be useful:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/6255#post_9959381


 

 thanks - thinking about it as there is no wait list etc.


----------



## Khragon

What's the difference between one Glenn's OTL that's on sale now in the classified and the Whirlwind?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/781726/glenn-otl-amp
  
 It seems to me the Whirlwind can use C3g and if using 6sn7 it's using a pair vs. the above one uses only 1 6sn7.
 Anything else?
  
 *edit* geez I missed that the rectifier is different too... look like they're two different amp.


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> In line now.
> 300b vs otl is my only decision!


 
  
 Once you go 300B ....
  
 Glenn himself describes his 300B as the best sounding amp he makes, but it is quite a bit more expensive and the high end 300Bs are costly. Glenn 300B amp, with some extras, and a pair of TA300Bs (highly recommended) and you are looking at over 4K USD.


----------



## gibosi

khragon said:


> What's the difference between one Glenn's OTL that's on sale now in the classified and the Whirlwind?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/781726/glenn-otl-amp
> 
> ...


 
  
 Whirlwind's amp has
  
 Two loctal C3g sockets
 An upgraded transformer requiring different rectifiers
 DC heaters (I believe)
 A 6/12/25 volt switch for the 6SN7 socket
 A 5998/6AS7 switch to provide the correct bias when running 5998
  
 Otherwise, they both have two 6AS7 sockets and one 6SN7 socket


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> Good lawrd
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I understand!  Given the right 6DJ8/ 5998 tube and other cable mods my HD800 has some surprising bass slam on my WA2.  Give Glenn's amp all kudos it deserves (i.e alot)  just don't support the general concept that the HD800 is week on bass; because the is absolutely incorrect!!!


----------



## ru4music

gibosi said:


> Whirlwind's amp has
> 
> Two loctal C3g sockets
> An upgraded transformer requiring different rectifiers
> ...


 

 From an engineering perspective providing a xSN7 or a  C3g driver option is just KILLER!


----------



## gibosi

ru4music said:


> From an engineering perspective providing a xSN7 or a  C3g driver option is just KILLER!


 
  
 Whirlwind has the same amp that I have, except his has the upgraded transformer and DC heaters. That is, his is quieter. But for sure, being able to roll a single 6/12/25 volt double triode or a pair of C3g is awesome. 
  
 Here running a 12 volt FDD20 with simple pin adapter:


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> Whirlwind has the same amp that I have, except his has the upgraded transformer and DC heaters. That is, his is quieter. But for sure, being able to roll a single 6/12/25 volt double triode or a pair of C3g is awesome.
> 
> Here running a 12 volt FDD20 with simple pin adapter:


 

 Could Glenn do the same setup with 5ar4 compatible rectifier like yours? Or is it that- you can use a pair of c3gs also?


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Whirlwind has the same amp that I have, except his has the upgraded transformer and DC heaters. That is, his is quieter. But for sure, being able to roll a single 6/12/25 volt double triode or a pair of C3g is awesome.
> ...


 

 Yes I can use the same transformer as gibosi's.
 Actually $300 cheaper than whirlwind's amp.


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Whirlwind's amp has
> ...


 
 Yes, absolutely.
  
 gibosi has rolled so many different tubes in his amp, it is unreal. Seems the tube rolling options are endless
  
 I have only rolled about 4 different power tubes so far and like 4 different SN7 tubes......I am all about synergy and head bobbin and feet tappin...that has happened with every combo I have tried.
  
 I am not so much trying to find the perfect sound signature, I love the option to have many...what ever suits my mood.
  
 So far I have heard Glenns amp being very dynamic across the spectrum, to a very nice and warm sound across the spectrum, while all the time producing the music so effortlessly.


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> I understand!  Given the right 6DJ8/ 5998 tube and other cable mods my HD800 has some surprising bass slam on my WA2.  Give Glenn's amp all kudos it deserves (i.e alot)  just don't support the general concept that the HD800 is week on bass; because the is absolutely incorrect!!!



Hoping to find the best combo to get more out of mine.


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> I ask because there is a glenn amp in the classifieds and I'd like to know what the difference is in term of the otl sound?  I also have a csp2+ so I can also reference that.


 

 The one in the classifieds is the one dubstepgirl listened to.
 It is the basic amp no 6>12>25 switch and no 5998 switch can still use 5998s though
 It will sound the same as whirlwind's amp though. And it has the normal 5U4 type rectifier but also can take the 3DG4 rectifier


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> The one in the classifieds is the one dubstepgirl listened to.
> It is the basic amp no 6>12>25 switch and no 5998 switch can still use 5998s though
> It will sound the same as whirlwind's amp though. And it has the normal 5U4 type rectifier but also can take the 3DG4 rectifier


 
  
 Yep, it is kind of sad to list it but I just don't have time to listen to it plus I'm toying the idea of getting a 300B from Glenn in the future.


----------



## punit

2359glenn said:


> The one in the classifieds is the one dubstepgirl listened to.
> It is the basic amp no 6>12>25 switch and no 5998 switch can still use 5998s though
> It will sound the same as whirlwind's amp though. And it has the normal 5U4 type rectifier but also can take the 3DG4 rectifier


 
 So no diff in sound by using the Lundahl tranformer & rectifiers different than 5U4 / 3DG4 ?


----------



## Sfox7076

Do you make the 300B amp with switchable driver tubes?  If so, which ones?  Has anyone used a 2C50 in any amp yet?


----------



## 2359glenn

punit said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The one in the classifieds is the one dubstepgirl listened to.
> ...


 

 It probably sounds a little different but I didn't have one of the old ones to A-B test.
 Listening to it by itself it sounded the same with lower noise due to the Lundahl transformer.


----------



## 2359glenn

sfox7076 said:


> Do you make the 300B amp with switchable driver tubes?  If so, which ones?  Has anyone used a 2C50 in any amp yet?


 

 No not at this time it only uses the C3g for a driver.


----------



## jhljhl

2359glenn said:


> Yes I can use the same transformer as gibosi's.
> Actually $300 cheaper than whirlwind's amp.


 

 I am really interested in this configuration.  How does the c3g sounds with the 5998s?


----------



## lukeap69

Is lower noise floor the only benefit of using Lundahl xformer on the OTL amp? Will it even noticeable when using HD800 (never had any issue with noise floor on any amp I have tried with this.)


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> Is lower noise floor the only benefit of using Lundahl xformer on the OTL amp? Will it even noticeable when using HD800 (never had any issue with noise floor on any amp I have tried with this.)


 

 Yes
 The Lundahl transformer has little 50/60 Hz magnetic field. This magnetic field can be picked up by the wiring.
 Otherwise it sounds the same makes the same voltage. Except the old transformer has a 5 volt winding for a 5U4 , 5AR4 rectifier


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> Yes
> The Lundahl transformer has little 50/60 Hz magnetic field. This magnetic field can be picked up by the wiring.
> Otherwise it sounds the same makes the same voltage. Except the old transformer has a 5 volt winding for a 5U4 , 5AR4 rectifier




Thanks. I supposed my OTL will have Lundahl, right?


----------



## whirlwind

jc9394 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The one in the classifieds is the one dubstepgirl listened to.
> ...


 
 This would be a wonderful deal for somebody.....this amp is worth it for listening to HD650 alone


----------



## Wildcatsare1

whirlwind said:


> This would be a wonderful deal for somebody.....this amp is worth it for listening to HD650 alone




I would love to pick it up for my HD800, hopefully it will still be available when I get back from Ukraine!


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> I am really interested in this configuration.  How does the c3g sounds with the 5998s?


 
  
 I have the old transformer, the 5998 switch and C3g sockets. Very frankly, when rolling in the C3gs with 5998s (switch on) there is way too much ground hum. This is also true with the ECC31. However, with 6SN7, the hum is low enough not to intrude, but it is not totally silent. I trust Glenn will correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect a transformer that can put out over 11 amps in order to accommodate two 6336 is going to be somewhat noisy, unless you go with a Lundahl or similar premium product. So IMO, if you really like the 5998, you should get the upgraded transformer, especially if you want to roll C3g. And in general, if you want an amp that is totally silent, you should get the upgraded transformer.
  
 Personally, I am very content to use GEC 6AS7 instead of the 5998. And given the cost savings, I am OK with a little background hum. Currently, I am listening with GEC 6AS7, Cossor "fat" 53KU and a Mullard ECC31 through HD700. There is a small amount of background hum, but it is low enough that it never intrudes and I rarely notice it.
  
 So I would say the price of "quiet" is $300 and no 5 volt rectifiers. And I have absolutely no idea how the PY500 rectifiers compare. However, Whirlwind and I don't live all that far apart, so one day, I hope we can have a little mini-meet and compare notes.


----------



## punit

gibosi said:


> There is a small amount of background hum, but it is low enough that it never intrudes and I rarely notice it.


 
 I only notice it sometimes with certain tubes when there is no music. I have tried to see if i can hear it when music is playing but can't. Why does it go away when music is playing ?
 I quite enjoy rolling rectifiers, so I would probably not choose the Lundahl (I assume you cannot roll rectifiers with the Lundahl, am i correct ?)


----------



## gibosi

punit said:


> I only notice it sometimes with certain tubes when there is no music. I have tried to see if i can hear it when music is playing but can't. Why does it go away when music is playing ?


 
  
 This is a good point. Like you, I only notice it when there is no music -- between songs or when there is a long pause. Once the music starts up again, I can't hear it.
  
 Why? I would guess it is a function of the way our ears-brains work. When it is very quiet, it is almost as if we dial up our sensitivity in order to discern very small, faint sounds. But when our environment becomes noisier, our hearing seems to become less sensitive, perhaps to prevent some kind of overload. But this is just a wild guess on my part. lol


----------



## gibosi

punit said:


> I quite enjoy rolling rectifiers, so I would probably not choose the Lundahl (I assume you cannot roll rectifiers with the Lundahl, am i correct ?)


 
  
 When I search for PY500 in eBay, it appears that there might be a number of different manufacturers of this tube. But it might be that rolling is confined to only PY500 and nothing else. As I don't have this transformer, others will have to confirm....


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> punit said:
> 
> 
> > I quite enjoy rolling rectifiers, so I would probably not choose the Lundahl (I assume you cannot roll rectifiers with the Lundahl, am i correct ?)
> ...


 

 You cannot use different 42EC4s but you can use different brands RCA made in USA Sylvania made in USA
 GE rebrand made in UK Telefunkin  Panasonic made in Japan.
 But not different types like you can do with the 5 volt rectifiers.
  
 Punit if you want the 300B amp it will have the 42EC4/PY500 sorry.
 I still have the original transformers for the OTL though. 
  
 There is no background hum at all in whirlwind's amp with the Lundahl transformer.
 The old transformer radiates a strong 50/60 Hz magnetic field as most E-I transformers do.


----------



## punit

2359glenn said:


> You cannot use different 42EC4s but you can use different brands RCA made in USA Sylvania made in USA
> GE rebrand made in UK Telefunkin  Panasonic made in Japan.
> But not different types like you can do with the 5 volt rectifiers.
> 
> ...


 
 I was talking with reference to the OTL only.


----------



## 2359glenn

punit said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > You cannot use different 42EC4s but you can use different brands RCA made in USA Sylvania made in USA
> ...


 

 OK
 It makes things worse with the output transformers sitting next to it picking up the magnetic field.
 Then I would have to go to a split chassis like Woo does and that would increase the cost of the amp.


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> When I search for PY500 in eBay, it appears that there might be a number of different manufacturers of this tube. But it might be that rolling is confined to only PY500 and nothing else. As I don't have this transformer, others will have to confirm....



I hear the mullard PY500 is nice


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> OK
> It makes things worse with the output transformers sitting next to it picking up the magnetic field.
> Then I would have to go to a split chassis like Woo does and that would increase the cost of the amp.



Is this an option on your 300b?


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> I hear the mullard PY500 is nice


 
  
 Langrex has a large stock of them, labelled as Granada Television. I have a bunch waiting for my Glenn 300B amp. Nice looking tubes.


----------



## jc9394

Glenn, do you still make a 300B amp with C3g?  I brought brunch of them last year.


----------



## TonyNewman

jc9394 said:


> Glenn, do you still make a 300B amp with C3g?  I brought brunch of them last year.


 
  
 I can answer that one - YES - Glenn is making a C3G / PY500 / 300B amp for me right now <insert image of a crusty grandfather in basement tinkering away>


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn gave me two different sets of 42EC4 tubes for my amp...I have the RCA's in at the moment....I have not rolled them yet, so I can not tell you if they sound different or not....I will get around to it.
  
 I have not heard any hum in my amp so far....I have rolled three different sets of power tubes and a few driver tubes....have not tried the C3g's yet and i have not rolled to a different brand of 42EC4's yet.
  
 I have many tubes here to try, but to be honest, the amps sounds wonderful with every combo that I have tried, so I am just enjoying my music to it fullest and working my way thru my blues library.
  
 I have missed my bedtime everynight since Glenn sent me the amp  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I received a B36 tube the other day that I think I may roll in tonight or tomorrow.
  

  
 Thanks for the heads up on this , gibosi


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, do you still make a 300B amp with C3g?  I brought brunch of them last year.
> ...


 

 JC yes I do
  
 Tony  crusty grandfather I will get you for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> I have the old transformer, the 5998 switch and C3g sockets. Very frankly, when rolling in the C3gs with 5998s (switch on) there is way too much ground hum. This is also true with the ECC31. However, with 6SN7, the hum is low enough not to intrude, but it is not totally silent. I trust Glenn will correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect a transformer that can put out over 11 amps in order to accommodate two 6336 is going to be somewhat noisy, unless you go with a Lundahl or similar premium product. So IMO, if you really like the 5998, you should get the upgraded transformer, especially if you want to roll C3g. And in general, if you want an amp that is totally silent, you should get the upgraded transformer.
> 
> Personally, I am very content to use GEC 6AS7 instead of the 5998. And given the cost savings, I am OK with a little background hum. Currently, I am listening with GEC 6AS7, Cossor "fat" 53KU and a Mullard ECC31 through HD700. There is a small amount of background hum, but it is low enough that it never intrudes and I rarely notice it.
> 
> So I would say the price of "quiet" is $300 and no 5 volt rectifiers. And I have absolutely no idea how the PY500 rectifiers compare. However, Whirlwind and I don't live all that far apart, so one day, I hope we can have a little mini-meet and compare notes.





Thanks much this was what I was wondering.


----------



## gibosi

Glenn... Since some would like to be able to use 5 volt rectifiers with an ultraquiet transformer, is there another manufacturer who makes transformers comparable to the Lundahl that can be used with 5 volt rectifiers?
  
 Or, another, similar question. If someone has no interest in using 6336, is there a smaller Lundahl transformer, but still large enough to supply two 6AS7 and one BL63/VR102, that can be used with 5 volt rectifiers?


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> JC yes I do
> 
> Tony  crusty grandfather I will get you for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Great, all I need to do now is raise fund and hope get a break from my work and pick up a pair of TA next time in Japan.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Glenn gave me two different sets of 42EC4 tubes for my amp...I have the RCA's in at the moment....I have not rolled them yet, so I can not tell you if they sound different or not....I will get around to it.
> 
> I have not heard any hum in my amp so far....I have rolled three different sets of power tubes and a few driver tubes....have not tried the C3g's yet and i have not rolled to a different brand of 42EC4's yet.
> 
> ...


 
  


whirlwind said:


> Glenn gave me two different sets of 42EC4 tubes for my amp...I have the RCA's in at the moment....I have not rolled them yet, so I can not tell you if they sound different or not....I will get around to it.
> 
> I have not heard any hum in my amp so far....I have rolled three different sets of power tubes and a few driver tubes....have not tried the C3g's yet and i have not rolled to a different brand of 42EC4's yet.
> 
> ...


 

 Whirlind's amp is the quietest OTL I have built so far. The Lundahl transformer is well worth the extra cost.
  
 The GE PY500 made in UK is a lot different the RCA made in the USA Just looking at the internals. 
  
 The B36 should sound as good or better then the 13D1


----------



## Sko0byDoo

gibosi said:


> Glenn... Since some would like to be able to use 5 volt rectifiers with an ultraquiet transformer, is there another manufacturer who makes transformers comparable to the Lundahl that can be used with 5 volt rectifiers?


 
  
 Or use Lundahl main with a separate 5VAC supply.  Hammond makes a few ~$20/pop


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> ...
> 
> Tony  crusty grandfather I will get you for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  
 If I was clever I would save my wiseass comments until _after _my amp is built...


----------



## dminches

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]





tonynewman said:


> Langrex has a large stock of them, labelled as Granada Television. I have a bunch waiting for my Glenn 300B amp. Nice looking tubes.




Are the Mullards PY500 or an equivalent tube type?


----------



## TonyNewman

dminches said:


> Are the Mullards PY500 or an equivalent tube type?


 
  
 Yes - the pic doesn't show it well, but the stamp on the tube says PY500A. Here's a better pic:


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> Glenn... Since some would like to be able to use 5 volt rectifiers with an ultraquiet transformer, is there another manufacturer who makes transformers comparable to the Lundahl that can be used with 5 volt rectifiers?
> 
> Or, another, similar question. If someone has no interest in using 6336, is there a smaller Lundahl transformer, but still large enough to supply two 6AS7 and one BL63/VR102, that can be used with 5 volt rectifiers?



The later is my question also.


----------



## whirlwind

tonynewman said:


> dminches said:
> 
> 
> > Are the Mullards PY500 or an equivalent tube type?
> ...


 
 I am going to buy a couple of pairs of these....thanks for the info Tony.


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn... Since some would like to be able to use 5 volt rectifiers with an ultraquiet transformer, is there another manufacturer who makes transformers comparable to the Lundahl that can be used with 5 volt rectifiers?
> ...


 

 Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the ultra quiet transformer? Put in a cheep noisy transformer.


----------



## 2359glenn

3083joe said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn... Since some would like to be able to use 5 volt rectifiers with an ultraquiet transformer, is there another manufacturer who makes transformers comparable to the Lundahl that can be used with 5 volt rectifiers?
> ...


 

 No Lundahl only have a limited number of transformers.
 Just stay with the old transformer.
 I don't understand the 5 volt rectifier thing. The best sounding 5 volt is the WE422A that has a low voltage drop like a TV damper diode
 why would I want to use lessor rectifiers. For bloated mushy sound and pay big bucks for it.


----------



## Neogeo333

2359glenn said:


> No Lundahl only have a limited number of transformers.
> Just stay with the old transformer.
> I don't understand the 5 volt rectifier thing. The best sounding 5 volt is the WE422A that has a low voltage drop like a TV damper diode
> why would I want to use lessor rectifiers. For bloated mushy sound and pay big bucks for it.


 
 http://www.tedweber.com/gadgets/copper-cap-rectifiers
  
 These have even less drop.  Worked fine in my P.P. amp.  Fast and powerful sound.


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > No Lundahl only have a limited number of transformers.
> ...


 

 Those are SS rectifiers.
 I can make amps with SS rectifiers that are electrically better only .7 volt drop. And would be easier for me.  Don't have to cut the holes for the tube sockets


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


 

 I  know
 You can have exploding capacitors like your current amp


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> No Lundahl only have a limited number of transformers.
> Just stay with the old transformer.
> I don't understand the 5 volt rectifier thing. The best sounding 5 volt is the WE422A that has a low voltage drop like a TV damper diode
> why would I want to use lessor rectifiers. For bloated mushy sound and pay big bucks for it.



Whatever you recommend! If Lundahl is bet that good for me.


----------



## Sfox7076

I think the 274b has a big voltage drop and people love that tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

sfox7076 said:


> I think the 274b has a big voltage drop and people love that tube.


 

 Yes that would change the sound.
 If a engineer designs a amp to run at a specific voltage why would you want to drop it??
 And it is not just voltage drop it is called sag. when the amp needs more current like during
  strong bass the voltage drop across that rectifier increases dropping the B+ voltage when
 it is most needed.
 Some guitar amps use 5U4 rectifiers on purpose to do this and cause desired distortion.
 I don't want it.


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn
At least I will ever able to make some money to pay for the upgraded 300b selling my 5v rectifiers.


----------



## Khragon

3083joe said:


> @2359glenn
> At least I will ever able to make some money to pay for the upgraded 300b selling my 5v rectifiers.


 

 Exactly what I did , sold most of my 5v rectifiers.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> I  know
> You can have exploding capacitors like your current amp


 
  
 Gulp! This could hurt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That was a fun moment with my WA5. Loud 'BANG' from the amp and stinky smoke starts pouring out.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> 3083joe said:
> 
> 
> > @2359glenn
> ...


 

 No worries you will have no need for those anymore.
 Just rectifiers that you can get for $2 to $10 each I guess no bragging rights with these


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I  know
> ...


 

 My amp won't do that until you plug it in I think I will here the bang here all the way from New Zealand.
 Crusty old grandpa speaking.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> My amp won't do that until you plug it in I think I will here the bang here all the way from New Zealand.
> Crusty old grandpa speaking.


 
  
 Revenge is sweet!!
  
 These components are a normal part of the 300B amp build, aren't they?


----------



## jhljhl

neogeo333 said:


> http://www.tedweber.com/gadgets/copper-cap-rectifiers
> 
> These have even less drop.  Worked fine in my P.P. amp.  Fast and powerful sound.


 

 ted webber -I bought some guitar amp speakers from.  I had mullard 5ar4 rectifiers from a deluxe reverb- that's how I got started.  So I remember getting 5y3 too etc 12ax7 mullards telefunkens.  I had to give up playing because of an injury but I had all these valves - fortunately I found stereo and headphone amps to put them in. 
  
 I think the point of solid state in a stereo amp is for good bass?


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > My amp won't do that until you plug it in I think I will here the bang here all the way from New Zealand.
> ...


 

 That is a upgrade for yours.
  
 If the capacitors in my amp blows up I will fly to New Zealand and fix it.  Then kiss your ass.
 Just have some good food and drink on hand.
 Blowing capacitors is unacceptable there are several brands I will not use. Most I use are made in Europe and USA.
 No cheep stuff. 
 Blowing capacitors What is that a feature.  Did you pay extra for that feature.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> ... Blowing capacitors What is that a feature.  Did you pay extra for that feature.


 
  
 It came standard with my WA5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It certainly added some excitement to my audio day, in all the wrong ways.
  
 Glad I went the extra yard for the Dueland coupling caps in my amp build - those guys have an awesome rep. Kinda like Lundahl transformers - apex components.


----------



## Neogeo333

If you got kids you also receive lots of light sabers with your amp. I know mine will. Wish it also come with a pair of nice lady shoes and a nice handbag to ease the nagging later.


----------



## Neogeo333

jhljhl said:


> ted webber -I bought some guitar amp speakers from.  I had mullard 5ar4 rectifiers from a deluxe reverb- that's how I got started.  So I remember getting 5y3 too etc 12ax7 mullards telefunkens.  I had to give up playing because of an injury but I had all these valves - fortunately I found stereo and headphone amps to put them in.
> 
> I think the point of solid state in a stereo amp is for good bass?


 
 When used in my PP amp compared to a say gz37 the weber rec. gave a sense of faster and leaner sound.  The bass was but more impact full too.  But tube rec. gave me a mellower sound I was looking for and better soundstage.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > ... Blowing capacitors What is that a feature.  Did you pay extra for that feature.
> ...


 

 The Duelund caps do sound good quality coupling caps are as important as good transformers.
 Paper in oil is the way to go.


----------



## jhljhl

neogeo333 said:


> When used in my PP amp compared to a say gz37 the weber rec. gave a sense of faster and leaner sound.  The bass was but more impact full too.  But tube rec. gave me a mellower sound I was looking for and better soundstage.


 
  
 I mentioned this in the woo amp owners thread that if they find bass slam is not enough they should get a solid state rectifier - no sag.   But I think there are "purists" - who want all tube but are searching for 3d bass.  Maybe through Glenns 300b or et al the rich deep bass will be there.  But I'm in the minority where I find the wa22 bass sufficient - but I listen to lots of vocals now so.  I may get a Glenn 300b one day for the dynamics alone.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> I mentioned this in the woo amp owners thread that if they find bass slam is not enough they should get a solid state rectifier - no sag.   But I think there are "purists" - who want all tube but are searching for 3d bass.  Maybe through Glenns 300b or et al the rich deep bass will be there.  But I'm in the minority where I find the wa22 bass sufficient - but I listen to lots of vocals now so.  I may get a Glenn 300b one day for the dynamics alone.




Not a minority. There is at least two of us. I find the WA22 sufficient in bass also. However I use Audeze HP's which have plenty of slam.

Glenn put me on the OLT list for next year. I spoke to the boss (wifey) and I have permission.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Not a minority. There is at least two of us. I find the WA22 sufficient in bass also. However I use Audeze HP's which have plenty of slam.
> 
> Glenn put me on the OLT list for next year. I spoke to the boss (wifey) and I have permission.


 
  
 This is assuming Glenn won't ban all deliveries to folks south of the equator after my "crusty grandfather" comment


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > Not a minority. There is at least two of us. I find the WA22 sufficient in bass also. However I use Audeze HP's which have plenty of slam.
> ...


 

 This is considering if Badas is your friend and I think he is. Guilt by association
 Is everybody south of the equator ******** not sure but assume so at this point.
 I will only ship noisy and exploding amps south of the equator you guys are used
 those features.
 Crusty grandfather


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> This is considering if Badas is your friend and I think he is. Guilt by association
> Is everybody south of the equator ******** not sure but assume so at this point.
> I will only ship noisy and exploding amps south of the equator you guys are used
> those features.
> Crusty grandfather




 

Our tubes going Boom! Must be a magnetic pole thing.


----------



## lukeap69

I had to check, I am very much North of equator so I am safe!


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Not a minority. There is at least two of us. I find the WA22 sufficient in bass also. However I use Audeze HP's which have plenty of slam.
> 
> Glenn put me on the OLT list for next year. I spoke to the boss (wifey) and I have permission.


 

 Yes I agree with the Audeze - I have the 3f you have the X I see.  I mean also with the hd800 -I'm fine with it.  Have you heard of the lcd-4f?
  
  
 Everyone will move up to the 300b.  What will happen in the next 10 years?


----------



## Badas

lukeap69 said:


> I had to check, I am very much North of equator so I am safe!




Us southern boys are real problem childs.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> ...
> I will only ship noisy and exploding amps south of the equator you guys are used
> those features.
> ...


 
  
 Combining the best features of my WA5 (exploding caps) and Badas's WA22 (noisy tubes)


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > This is considering if Badas is your friend and I think he is. Guilt by association
> ...


 

 Yes it is the south magnetic field is the root cause of all your amp problems..
 Got edited out what I called you guys.
 Crusty grandfather


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> ...
> Got edited out what I called you guys.
> ...


 
  
 I can guess. That is a term of endearment where I come from


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > badas said:
> ...


 
 Ha ha ha....


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

badas said:


> Not a minority. There is at least two of us. I find the WA22 sufficient in bass also. However I use Audeze HP's which have plenty of slam.
> 
> Glenn put me on the OLT list for next year. I spoke to the boss (wifey) and I have permission.


 
  
 How many are ahead of you?  I think I want the same thing in 2016, but I yet lack "permission"....


----------



## 2359glenn

buttuglyjeff said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > Not a minority. There is at least two of us. I find the WA22 sufficient in bass also. However I use Audeze HP's which have plenty of slam.
> ...


 

 The basic amp for $650 sounds as good as the ones with all the mods just has less tube rolling options.
  
 Got to get downstairs building amps now the lights are blinking it has been raining for 11 days now.
 Got to get something done before I am in the dark.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

2359glenn said:


> The basic amp for $650 sounds as good as the ones with all the mods just has less tube rolling options.
> 
> Got to get downstairs building amps now the lights are blinking it has been raining for 11 days now.
> Got to get something done before I am in the dark.


 
  
 Are you near all that hurricane crap in the Carolinas?


----------



## 2359glenn

buttuglyjeff said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The basic amp for $650 sounds as good as the ones with all the mods just has less tube rolling options.
> ...


 

 No it is another storm hitting the Carolinas it has been raining for almost 2 weeks now.
 Trees are just falling down in the soft ground taking out power lines.


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> The basic amp for $650 sounds as good as the ones with all the mods just has less tube rolling options.


 
 ^ That!

 I know that Glenn is not using the small chassis and transformers anymore but, if you just want to listen to music, his basic OTL - with $50 worth of tubes is all one really needs.
 The other stuff is just because we can...


----------



## Badas

parbaked said:


> ^ That!
> 
> I know that Glenn is not using the small chassis and transformers anymore but, if you just want to listen to music, his basic OTL - with $50 worth of tubes is all one really needs.
> The other stuff is just because we can...


 

 Very cute. I like the small footprint.


----------



## parbaked

It's the OG OTL...Clayton's baby...I believe the 2nd of Glenn's commercial amps for HF.
  
 It is a great amp for high impedance cans.


----------



## DecentLevi

@2359glenn, I think the best way for you to showcase your amps is by displaying them at Head-Fi / CanJam meets:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/f/24/local-regional-head-fi-meets-parties-get-togethers
  
 This way, people like me who are on the fence would be able to try it first-hand, which is vital for us to make a determination, especially on a little known brand. I honestly think you should look into this - you would probably build much more of a following after a few meets, and your amps value versus the other summit-fi names would probably wow everybody too!


----------



## whirlwind

parbaked said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The basic amp for $650 sounds as good as the ones with all the mods just has less tube rolling options.
> ...


 
 I agree, I have not rolled a tube in Glenns amp yet that did not sound good.
  
 Glenn prides himself in making amps that can use cheap tubes and he most certainly has succeeded.
  
 I am a very new owner of a Glenn OTL and it has exceeded my expectations and what I read about them and what everybody told me about them is very true.
  
 As I am sitting here listening to B.B. King right now, I could not be any happier.....a pair of GE PY500 rectifiers....Mullard 6080 Power Tubes ....Brimar 13D1 Driver tube which is a 25SN7.....Lucille has never sounded better


----------



## raybone0566

whirlwind said:


> I agree, I have not rolled a tube in Glenns amp yet that did not sound good.
> 
> Glenn prides himself in making amps that can use cheap tubes and he most certainly has succeeded.
> 
> ...


Whirlwind where do you purchase the tubes you do buy. Think I may start stocking up. Any suggestions would be great, thanks


----------



## whirlwind

I've bought from e-bay....Langrex....B/S/T forums here at headfi......valvetubes.....
  
 The other folks here probably know way more places than myself.


----------



## Clayton SF

badas said:


> Very cute. I like the small footprint.


 
  
 small footprint. BIG SOUND!


parbaked said:


> It's the OG OTL...Clayton's baby...I believe the 2nd of Glenn's commercial amps for HF.
> 
> It is a great amp for high impedance cans.


 
  
 The only tube amp I own that will lift the Sennheiser HD 650's notorious dark veil, to showcase its extraordinary sound spectrum.


----------



## whirlwind

clayton sf said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > Very cute. I like the small footprint.
> ...


 
 Yeah, Glenns amp took my HD650 to another level, for sure.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > badas said:
> ...


 

 Yes that is a oldie glad to see it again.
 The new ones are really not that different same sound signature.


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn sent me two different pair of 42EC4/PY500 tubes
  
 GE & RCA .....They have a different construction for sure....I did not notice a difference in sound, either the tubes sound similar or these tubes do not play with the sound much or my old ears can not tell  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Here you can see the difference in construction.
  

 The GE maybe is a rebranded Mullard....it is built pretty rugged and the RCA pretty wimpy next to it.
  
 The sound is wonderful with either set of tubes installed.
  
 The RCA does make a nice little volcano glow


----------



## gibosi

On the subject of rectifiers....  Do any of the older UX4-based type 80 or 5Z3 rectifiers provide enough current to run a Glenn OTL (with the original transformer)?


----------



## gibosi

Have begun to roll 6A6 today. First up is a tube labeled as a Tung-Sol, but as I have seen RCA's with the same construction, specifically those cross-shaped mica spacers, it could be a rebrand. The 6A6 uses a medium 7-pin U7B base, also referred to as a UX7 base, instead of the more common octal base, so an adapter is necessary. This tube preceded the 6N7 and they are electrically identical. In fact, early 6N7G's appear to be nothing more than 6A6 bottles shoved into an octal base.
  
 The 6A6 and 6N7G are very similar to the ECC31, with powerful heaters, a common cathode, and designed to operate as a push-pull Class B2 audio amplifier in radios of the late 1930's, hence my interest in rolling these.
  
 It sounds pretty good, but it has been up and running for less than an hour, plus I have my "burn-kit" installed (a pair of mismatched RCA 6AS7's with different construction and a Sylvania 3DG4 regulator) so I can't say anymore at this time.


----------



## gibosi

Also, this tube has a foil getter and I notice that the tube type, 6A6, is enclosed in a circle, rather than a hexagon. I assume that it is fairly old. Does anyone know roughly when the circle was replaced by the hexagon?


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Can this type of tube be used in a 6SN7 circuit?


----------



## gibosi

badas said:


> ^
> Can this type of tube be used in a 6SN7 circuit?


 
  
 It needs an adapter, as the base is different and it is necessary to properly connect the common cathode into the 6SN7 socket. (And I know... this adapter is butt-ugly! lol)
  
 The heaters draw only 0.8 amps, so a bit more than the 6SN7, but less than an ECC32.
  
 Here is a Sylvania 6A6 in my Glenn OTL.


----------



## parbaked

This is for Glenn:

 Our Trader Joes has a new item - Greek Cheese Pies!!
 I know they're not the real thing but they might help ease the pain until you get the good stuff...


----------



## Neogeo333

parbaked said:


> This is for Glenn:
> 
> Our Trader Joes has a new item - Greek Cheese Pies!!
> I know they're not the real thing but they might help ease the pain until you get the good stuff...


 
 Send a couple to the old grampa he'll bump you up from the queue line.


----------



## jc9394

neogeo333 said:


> Send a couple to the old grampa he'll bump you up from the queue line.


 
  
  
 I may have to do that when I'm ready for the 300b


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> This is for Glenn:
> 
> Our Trader Joes has a new item - Greek Cheese Pies!!
> I know they're not the real thing but they might help ease the pain until you get the good stuff...


 

 I love Greek cheese pies but Trader Joes is a hour away.
 Stavros always has them when I come to visit.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Can this type of tube be used in a 6SN7 circuit?


 

 Not in the WA22 the tube has a common cathode.
 Hum it might work though.
 Now that I am thinking about it it will work with a 7pin to 8pin adapter.
 Also the 6N7 is the same tube in a 8 pin base but will still need a adapter


----------



## MIKELAP

2359glenn said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > ^
> ...


 
 Using 6N7 ,1635 and ECC 31 in WA22 with adapters


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Your amp is looking nice.
  
 How did you do that paint the logo trick again? I tried with a felt tip pen. Epic fail.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Your amp is looking nice.
> 
> How did you do that paint the logo trick again? I tried with a felt tip pen. Epic fail.


 
 Just fill the letters with paint and wipe off excess


----------



## MIKELAP

mikelap said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > ^
> ...


----------



## Badas

Cool. I will go and find a silver paint.
  
 Will model paint be water based?


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> Cool. I will go and find a silver paint.
> 
> Will model paint be water based?


 
 You can use oil base paint  if you want ,the trick is wiping across the letters without removing the paint in the letters i used a humid not wet ,paper towel and patience .


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> You can use oil base paint  if you want ,the trick is wiping across the letters without removing the paint in the letters i used a humid not wet ,paper towel and patience .


 
  
 Cool. I will have a go.


----------



## ZoNtO

parbaked said:


> ^ That!
> 
> I know that Glenn is not using the small chassis and transformers anymore but, if you just want to listen to music, his basic OTL - with $50 worth of tubes is all one really needs.
> The other stuff is just because we can...


 
  
 Is this form factor still an option?


----------



## jc9394

zonto said:


> Is this form factor still an option?


 
  
 I don't think so, I was the last person suppose to use that small format but Glenn can't fit the transformer into it anymore.  Glenn use a different transformer now.


----------



## Clayton SF

zonto said:


> Is this form factor still an option?


 
  
 My favorite form factor and one of my all time favorite amps!
 Thank you, Glenn!


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks for those pictures, Clayton.
  
 I really like that small foot print.
  
 As always, when ever I see pictures of your gear, it makes me want to grab my headphones and head over....too bad you live all the way across the United States.
  
 I found out this morning that Glenns amp even sound fantastic with my Grado 225i
  
 The volume pod is only on 2nd or 3rd step and I get no clipping what so ever and no back round static with this low ohm headphone.
  
 I am so happy right now....I am thinking about upgrading my Grado headphone   heck the 225i sounds much bigger  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I just heard the C3g's for the first time also.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Still loving my good old 300B. The Lycan now is it's preamp


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Still loving my good old 300B. The Lycan now is it's preamp


 

 Another oldie my 2nd C3g > 300B amp still sounding good.


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> Another oldie my 2nd C3g > 300B amp still sounding good.



Beautiful work!


----------



## wotts

I want in on the fun! Here's my small OTL:
  
  

  
  
  
 Still loving it!


----------



## Neogeo333

Thanks Glenn,
 Unboxing would be in November.


----------



## whirlwind

So many wonderful looking amps.....George.....lets see that beast


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

wotts said:


> I want in on the fun! Here's my small OTL:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Great looking glass!!!


----------



## wotts

buttuglyjeff said:


> Great looking glass!!!


 
  
  
 Thanks! I used the flash at the start of a timed exposure with the room completely dark to get that one. The tube aren't quite that bright. Looked neat though.


----------



## Clayton SF

wotts said:


> I want in on the fun! Here's my small OTL:
> 
> Still loving it!


 
  
 My long lost brother! You're found!  Nice! (and by the way) great photo!


----------



## wotts

clayton sf said:


> My long lost brother! You're found!  Nice! (and by the way) great photo!


 
  
  
 /wave
  
  
 Between your OTL and SOs, I had to get one. I can't get over how awesome the T1s sound with it. I was thinking about adding the 300B to the stable, but I have Wharfedale Jade 3s incoming, so I really need something more suited to driving those.


----------



## Neogeo333

whirlwind said:


> So many wonderful looking amps.....George.....lets see that beast


 
 Its in my cousin apt.  When I go to NY on Nov i'll post some photos.  I hope it plays well from a smartphone.


----------



## JoelT

Congrats, George! Should be a great moment and well worth the wait.


----------



## Neogeo333

Thanks Joel.  Just in time for the cold weather.  20 more days and counting.


----------



## punit

wotts said:


> I was thinking about adding the 300B to the stable, but I have Wharfedale Jade 3s incoming, so I really need something more suited to driving those.


 
 I was in the same dilemma, wanted to try 300B sound for my speaker system (PSB Synchrony One) but wanted more power than the 8 -15 watts that 300B amps have. So I will have a pre-amp out installed on my 300B HP amp that Glenn will make (sometime in the near future). I will then have a 300B pre amp driving my Audio GD Master 2 mono blocks. Hopefully that will give me tube musicality with SS slam.


----------



## 2359glenn

zonto said:


> parbaked said:
> 
> 
> > ^ That!
> ...


 

 I might be able to make it with the Lundahl transformer but at $300 more for the transformer. and can't do the 5998 mod or the 6 > 12 > 25 volt switch
 not enough room.
 It is a nice size.  Had to switch transformers Thordarson got crazy with the price when I wanted a 115/230 primary as 1/2 of all my amps went over seas.


----------



## whirlwind

neogeo333 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > So many wonderful looking amps.....George.....lets see that beast
> ...


----------



## musicman59

wotts said:


> /wave
> 
> 
> Between your OTL and SOs, I had to get one. I can't get over how awesome the T1s sound with it. I was thinking about adding the 300B to the stable, but I have Wharfedale Jade 3s incoming, so I really need something more suited to driving those.


 
 Are those the ones we saw at Axpona?


----------



## wotts

musicman59 said:


> Are those the ones we saw at Axpona?


 
  
 Yup! I'm supposed to hear from the dealer today. If I can't get the burl finish, I'll be getting piano black. And a duster.


----------



## 333jeffery

Glenn, can you build an OTL amp around the 6c33c tube?


----------



## 2359glenn

333jeffery said:


> Glenn, can you build an OTL amp around the 6c33c tube?


 

 Do you want to heat your house with it???
 I suppose I could I bought a filament transformer with enough current to supply them but never got around to building it.
 To busy building amps for paying customers to build one for me so I didn't do it.
 It would need 4 of them for a OTL.
  
 Glenn


----------



## 333jeffery

I was interested in a Zana Deux clone, but simplified if that's doable. Just let me know.


----------



## Neogeo333

333jeffery said:


> I was interested in a Zana Deux clone, but simplified if that's doable. Just let me know.


 
 Why stop at 2 6c33c when 4 can also drive your speakers?  Trust me your gonna like it when a single amp can drive both cans and speakers.


----------



## No_One411

Just be careful with the Zana Deux or anything that uses the 6C33C. I've seen people get some pretty nasty burns from how ridiculously hot those tubes get. 
  
 Definitely not a family or pet safe choice of tubes.


----------



## gibosi

Most of the Siemens C3g out there are from the 1970's, with silkscreened shiny black cans. For some time now, I have been curious to discover how the Siemens C3g from the 1950's and 60's compare. And yesterday, I received a such a pair with embossed flat-black cans.
  

  
  Old Siemens with yellow banding, new Siemens with no banding and old Lorenz with blue banding.
  

  
 I am pleased to report that they light up and play, but haven't yet had the opportunity to make any comparisons.


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> Most of the Siemens C3g out there are from the 1970's, with silkscreened shiny black cans. For some time now, I have been curious to discover how the Siemens C3g from the 1950's and 60's compare. And yesterday, I received a such a pair with embossed flat-black cans.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Look forward to the day I can use these!


----------



## Neogeo333

I tried that UK valve combo with a VR102 once and it very very airy.  Love how the fat glass gz37 handle the low end. While the 6AS7G gave a big soundstage.   What phone your using with that combo?


----------



## 3083joe

neogeo333 said:


> I tried that UK valve combo with a VR102 once and it very very airy.  Love how the fat glass gz37 handle the low end. While the 6AS7G gave a big soundstage.   What phone your using with that combo?



Love that combo also. 
Running GEC 6as7 and cossor fat bottle
Oh and mullard ecc35


----------



## gibosi

I have the Senn HD700 and it really benefits from this tube combo. The fat GZ37 adds a nice bit of weight and body to the bass and the GEC 6AS7, being somewhat warm and dark (compared to the 5998, for example), helps to tame the 700's somewhat peaky mid-treble. This combo coupled with a Mullard ECC31 is awesome.


----------



## Neogeo333

Have you tried the ecc32,ecc33,ecc34,ecc35? From my experience they sound similar. Especially the ecc32 and ecc34. 
I still haven't tried an ecc31.


----------



## gibosi

neogeo333 said:


> Have you tried the ecc32,ecc33,ecc34,ecc35? From my experience they sound similar. Especially the ecc32 and ecc34.
> I still haven't tried an ecc31.


 
  
 No, I haven't tried those others. However, it is my understanding that the ECC31 sounds very similar to the ECC32.


----------



## Neogeo333

I wanted to try the ecc31 but then would have need a adaptor.  Already miss the otl.


----------



## gibosi

When I first started buying ECC31, I could usually pick them up for less than $75, so the cost of an adapter was well worth it especially considering what ECC32 cost. Now that more folks are buying them, the price has gone up, but still they can be often be purchased for around $100, still a good deal. That said, if you already have the ECC32, it probably isn't worth your time and money.


----------



## 3083joe

neogeo333 said:


> Have you tried the ecc32,ecc33,ecc34,ecc35? From my experience they sound similar. Especially the ecc32 and ecc34.
> I still haven't tried an ecc31.



Yeah. I have 32s and 35. Prefer the 35s a bit more. 
Ordered a pair or 31s will be here next week. 
Probably try some 34s just because. The 33s are hard to find and really expensive.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Most of the Siemens C3g out there are from the 1970's, with silkscreened shiny black cans. For some time now, I have been curious to discover how the Siemens C3g from the 1950's and 60's compare. And yesterday, I received a such a pair with embossed flat-black cans.


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






> And here, compared to Lorenz C3g from the mid 1960's
> 
> 
> 
> I am pleased to report that they light up and play, but haven't yet had the opportunity to make any comparisons.


 
  


 I am interested in your findings Ken....are those Gec 6AS7's in there with the C3g ?


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, a pair of GEC 6AS7 and a fat Cossor GZ37 with the C3g.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 

 Nice combo of tubes
 I always liked the GZ37 only the WE422 or damper diodes are better.
 And the GEC is about the best 6AS7 to me.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
 Hopefully, when things settle down for me at work...we can get together with our amps  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


2359glenn said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > whirlwind said:
> ...


 
 I am on a mission to keep my eyes open for a good deal on the GEC 6AS7
  
 Glenn, is there a certain 6336 tube that sounds better or works better in your amp, than others ?


----------



## Neogeo333

Only get the 6336A or 6336B. Dont get the one without the letter. Their rubbish. They all sound the same except for the Thompson 6336A. It has a different construction.


----------



## whirlwind

neogeo333 said:


> Only get the 6336A or 6336B. Dont get the one without the letter. Their rubbish. They all sound the same except for the Thompson 6336A. It has a different construction.


 
 Thank you, George.


----------



## Neogeo333

Don't mention it.  I think I might have those tubes your looking for.  Check the classified here.


----------



## 3083joe

neogeo333 said:


> Don't mention it.  I think I might have those tubes your looking for.  Check the classified here.



You got some nice tubes there!


----------



## Neogeo333

Thanks Joe, trying to unload some before I move.  More to come in these few days.


----------



## dminches

3083joe said:


> Yeah. I have 32s and 35. Prefer the 35s a bit more.
> Ordered a pair or 31s will be here next week.
> Probably try some 34s just because. The 33s are hard to find and really expensive.


 
  
 The ECC35 is not a direct replacement for an ECC32 the same way a 6SL7 can't often be used instead of a 6SN7 and vice versa.


----------



## 3083joe

dminches said:


> The ECC35 is not a direct replacement for an ECC32 the same way a 6SL7 can't often be used instead of a 6SN7 and vice versa.



Yeah. Probably true. But it can in my wa22. 
But Won't need once I get Glenn's 300B


----------



## gibosi

Glenn...
  
 Sometimes I see an amp that has an "automatic bias circuit" which is said to eliminate the need to rebias the amp after changing tubes.
  
 I wonder what this means? Is it actually possible to design a circuit that can reliably detect the proper bias of any given tube and make the proper adjustments? If so, how would something like this work?


----------



## Neogeo333

For me sometimes the advantage of manual bias is to be able to dial in the right amount to your liking.  Some tube sound better when pushed a bit further than their designed spec.  Like my KT120 tubes if I set it to there spec it sounds good but when push just a bit more it sounds better to my ears of course.  Sometimes is for the own safety of the amp to not push it too much and auto bias help in that way.   I vote for a manual bias in all my amp.


----------



## gibosi

I should have been more specific. I was looking at the owner's manual for an Elise, which is a 6SN7/6AS7 OTL manufactured by Feliks Audio. I wouldn't have thought that an amp like this would even need such a circuit?
  
 http://feliksaudio.pl/en/products.html
  
 And the manual can be seen here:
  
 http://feliksau.unixstorm.org/pliki/elise_en.pdf


----------



## Sfox7076

It is probably a cathode bias. You can read about that on numerous sites. I don't love power amps with cathode bias, even if all preamps are done that way.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Glenn...
> 
> Sometimes I see an amp that has an "automatic bias circuit" which is said to eliminate the need to rebias the amp after changing tubes.
> 
> I wonder what this means? Is it actually possible to design a circuit that can reliably detect the proper bias of any given tube and make the proper adjustments? If so, how would something like this work?


 

 Fixed bias has a negative power supply that is adjustable that is applied to the grid of the tube through
 a resistor.
  
 Auto bias / cathode bias
 A tube needs a negative voltage on the grid to control the current through the tube.
 In auto bias the grid is tied to ground through a resistor. And the cathode has a resistor to ground
 when tube starts drawing current it makes a voltage drop across that cathode resistor. So now
 the cathode is positive in respect to ground and the grid is grounded or at 0 volts. So this looks
 like a negative voltage on the grid. Different tubes will draw a different amount through the cathode
 resistor changing the voltage drop or the potential between the cathode and grid.
  
 Personally I like the sound of fixed bias. That cathode resistor has to be bypassed with a nasty
 electrolytic capacitor.
 A amp just sounds better without this stuff in the signal path.


----------



## gibosi

Glenn,
  
 Thanks for the explanation.  I am surprised at how simple the circuitry is as I envisioned something much more complicated. But still, it is adding more stuff into the signal path. What I take away from this is that when designing an amp, one should weigh the advantages of auto biasing versus the drawbacks... Interesting stuff indeed. Thanks again.


----------



## whirlwind

It is going to be one great Saturday night.
  

  
  
  
                                                                  *+*
  

  
  
  
                                                                  *+*
  

  
  
                                                              *+*
  

  
  
                                                              *=*
One great Saturday night !
  
  
 Glenn, thank you very much again, for making this amp for me....you will never know how much I am enjoying it.
  
 George, thank you for the tubes, I have listened to this combo for pretty much the whole day...and really look forward to more listening tonight.
  
 Glenn, your 42EC4/PY500 tubes are coming your way...I will ship them out this tuesday along with a few other goodies for you to enjoy, while you are building amps.


----------



## 3083joe

whirlwind said:


> It is going to be one great Saturday night.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very nice. Enjoy the night. 
Oh and I love the GEC 6as7, best driver out there


----------



## rosgr63

SO The Isley Brothers are on the decks.
  
 Fixed versus Auto Bias?
 The KISS principle applies here too for me been the last S off the word - Glenn who knows me well would agree.


----------



## parbaked

> Originally Posted by *rosgr63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The KISS principle applies here too for me been the last S off the word - Glenn who knows me well would agree.


 
 KISS = Keep It Simple Sexy?
  
 Hi Stavros...nice to see you!!


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Steven yes simple & sexy
  
*EDIT:*I am the S-stupid part.........


----------



## Khragon

Recently purchased the SERP (used), for the 2nd time, got to be honest I kinda like the way it sounds, strong bass.
 Got to wait a bit to get the Tak before I can do my 300B shoot out, well... after getting the amp from Glenn of course.


----------



## gibosi

I present a Raytheon 5694. 
  

  
 The Raytheon 5694 is very similar to the ECC32 and was considered to be interchangeable with the ECC32 in most applications. In the same way that the ECC32 is a modified ECC31, common cathode to separate cathodes, the 5694 is a modified 6N7G. I came across some chatter on the net where one poster felt it was better than the ECC32, so I decided to give one a try. Unfortunately, back in the day, the 5694, with its non-standard pin-out, was never a very popular tube and not all that many were made. This makes them rather tough to find, but fortunately, when they do pop up, they are not expensive. After searching high and low I was able to find only this one tube.
  
 As I don't have an ECC32, I compared it to an ECC31, and consider the 5694 to be just as good, but as one would expect, with a slightly different tonal balance. The major difference is the Mullard is a bit warmer, with a seductively sweet and smooth midrange and a slightly recessed presentation, the classic Mullard sound. Whereas, the Raytheon has less warmth, with a crystal clear midrange and a slightly forward presention, the classic Raytheon sound. Both have a deep extended bass with good body, detail and slam.
  
 At this point in time, I cannot say that I prefer one over the other and I am thrilled to have both.


----------



## whirlwind

^ Very nice, Ken ^


----------



## wotts

I'm about 45 minutes away from Founders. I love this beer.
  
 Quote:


whirlwind said:


> It is going to be one great Saturday night.


----------



## whirlwind

I have been enjoying a couple of bottles on my saturday night listening sessions


----------



## abvolt

Oh yeah a great dark beer what could be better, well maybe a glass of whisky to go with it..


----------



## wotts

abvolt said:


> Oh yeah a great dark beer what could be better, well maybe a glass of whisky to go with it..


 





  
 I grabbed a 4pk for the weekend. Mind have to jump on the whiskey idea too. Perfect pairing to go with the OTL, T1s and some excellent music.


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked and I celebrated life this afternoon with smoked duck and a beverage. To Stavros, Lieven, Glenn, and the rest of our Head-Fi friends, we toast you all to a fun life full of surprises and warmth, and a mimosa or two!


----------



## Neogeo333

Salud!


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> parbaked and I celebrated life this afternoon with smoked duck and a beverage. To Stavros, Lieven, Glenn, and the rest of our Head-Fi friends, we toast you all to a fun life full of surprises and warmth, and a mimosa or two!


 
  




  
 See you in 2 weeks!


----------



## vc1187

I recently acquired Glenn's OTL that DubstepGirl reviewed a while back.
  
 Gotta say that the most noticeable strength of this amp with the HD650s is its ability to sound exciting, involving and engaging when you focus and listen analytically, but it's also able to make the music just flow and take a backseat to a task that involves a lot of concentration (like studying or reading).  Those features sound like polar opposites, which is why this amp is so freakishly good.
  
 And the bass... it's certainly the best I've ever heard on the 650s.
  
 P.S. Morning freshly brewed coffee and Glenn OTL are a sublime pairing as well!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> See you in 2 weeks!


 
  

















 !


----------



## whirlwind

vc1187 said:


> I recently acquired Glenn's OTL that DubstepGirl reviewed a while back.
> 
> Gotta say that the most noticeable strength of this amp with the HD650s is its ability to sound exciting, involving and engaging when you focus and listen analytically, but it's also able to make the music just flow and take a backseat to a task that involves a lot of concentration (like studying or reading).  Those features sound like polar opposites, which is why this amp is so freakishly good.
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats on getting that, kept  you from waiting in line also.
  
 I could not agree more.....Glenns amp makes the HD650 sound better than I have ever heard it....it makes the music flow so effortlessly and it is so transparent to tube rolling.
  
 Enjoy your amp, you are very fortunate to get that.
  
 @ Clayton
  
 I have never even tried duck, but I must say...that looks wonderful, and i would love to try it.


----------



## raybone0566

The anticipation is killing me. But I know it'll be worth the wait


----------



## Clayton SF

whirlwind said:


> Congrats on getting that, kept  you from waiting in line also.
> 
> _*I could not agree more.....Glenns amp makes the HD650 sound better than I have ever heard it....it makes the music flow so effortlessly and it is so transparent to tube rolling.*_
> 
> ...


 
  
 x2
  
 parbaked bought the smoked duck at a fancy schmancy foodie store; it was sooo good! He made crostini topped with cucumbers, arugula, and some great white sauce. He then plopped the smoked duck on top of all of that.


----------



## Eee Pee

Looks wonderful Clayton. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





​


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Thanks! I'm making paella tonight. With shrimp and linguiça and red bell pepper, and saffron, and onions, and rice, and olive oil, while listening to an amp with an EZ81, E80CC, and a glass of _*merlot*_.


----------



## 2359glenn

vc1187 said:


> I recently acquired Glenn's OTL that DubstepGirl reviewed a while back.
> 
> Gotta say that the most noticeable strength of this amp with the HD650s is its ability to sound exciting, involving and engaging when you focus and listen analytically, but it's also able to make the music just flow and take a backseat to a task that involves a lot of concentration (like studying or reading).  Those features sound like polar opposites, which is why this amp is so freakishly good.
> 
> ...


 

 What tubes are you using?
  
 I am glad you are liking it!


----------



## RAZRr1275

Anyone use the Glenn OTL with LCD-2s? If so how does it do?


----------



## vc1187

2359glenn said:


> What tubes are you using?
> 
> I am glad you are liking it!


 

 I'm using a Tung Sol 6SN7GTB, Sylvania 3DG4, and 2 GEC 6080s.  
  
 It's hard to justify rolling tubes right now since I can't find a flaw with these.  I feel like 'improvements' due to tube rolling may be subtle to my ears and hence not worth the hundreds that I'd be dumping into better tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

vc1187 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > What tubes are you using?
> ...


 

 Good line up no need to spend more money.


----------



## whirlwind

I very much like the GEC 6080, I have not tried the Tung Sol 6SN7GTB
  
 I have tried the Tung Sol 12SN7 Mouse Ear and I like it quite well.


----------



## Neogeo333

Just one hour of use and the 300b amp is couple of notches above the OTL.  The only weak link is my source now.  Sony dac feed by smartphone usb as source.  Still the music is more detailed.  Love how the vocals are romanticized by it.  Lows are more controlled.  Highs are good too but a bit soft.  Overall it's very good but I need more time and use better components to hear what it can really do.  Here's a couple of pics.


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> Just one hour of use and the 300b amp is couple of notches above the OTL.


 
 Lookin' good George...enjoy!!
  
 Did Glenn offer any comparison of your iron versus the Lundahls?


----------



## Neogeo333

Hi Steven, 
Glenn didnt had time to compare them but he said it was good though. Maybe David and i can some day compare them.


----------



## punit

neogeo333 said:


>


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






> Just one hour of use and the 300b amp is couple of notches above the OTL.  The only weak link is my source now.  Sony dac feed by smartphone usb as source.  Still the music is more detailed.  Love how the vocals are romanticized by it.  Lows are more controlled.  Highs are good too but a bit soft.  Overall it's very good but I need more time and use better components to hear what it can really do.  Here's a couple of pics.


 
  


 Congrats...what HP's are you using ?


----------



## Neogeo333

Using a NAD RP18 and a Paradox and a Hifiman HE5.


----------



## Neogeo333

So what's good with a Glenn's amp?  Pizza of course.  I don't have to tell you Glenn where this from.


----------



## whirlwind

neogeo333 said:


> Just one hour of use and the 300b amp is couple of notches above the OTL.  The only weak link is my source now.  Sony dac feed by smartphone usb as source.  Still the music is more detailed.  Love how the vocals are romanticized by it.  Lows are more controlled.  Highs are good too but a bit soft.  Overall it's very good but I need more time and use better components to hear what it can really do.  Here's a couple of pics.


 
 Beautiful, George  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks for posting the pictures, and enjoy the heck out of your new amp.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Sure is beautiful. I appreciate the pictures as well. Enjoy your new amp.


----------



## jhljhl

neogeo333 said:


> Just one hour of use and the 300b amp is couple of notches above the OTL.  The only weak link is my source now.  Sony dac feed by smartphone usb as source.  Still the music is more detailed.  Love how the vocals are romanticized by it.  Lows are more controlled.  Highs are good too but a bit soft.  Overall it's very good but I need more time and use better components to hear what it can really do.  Here's a couple of pics.


 
 The amp looks really nice but you need to put a hello kitty on either side of it I think.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But seriously - nice looking amp would really like to hear it and more about your impressions.


----------



## ru4music

jhljhl said:


> The amp looks really nice but you need to put a hello kitty on either side of it I think.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 X2 on hello kitty
  
 X10 on your impressions of the new amp!


----------



## Neogeo333

Thank you all for your kind words.  As I get more used to its sound I will more about in the coming days.


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> So what's good with a Glenn's amp?  Pizza of course.  I don't have to tell you Glenn where this from.


 
 We know the amp sounds great...I want a review of that NY pizza!!
  
 (it looks like you were ready to steal a slice while you were driving it home)


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

My wife makes killer pizza, though not New Your style.  Its a little thicker:
  

  
 This is my favorite of her's.  Spinach/Ricotta with of course mozzarella on top.  I'm so glad I got her that pizza atone...


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> I present a Raytheon 5694.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Question? 
Which adapter are you using. Ecc31 to ecc33?
Thanks


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> The amp looks really nice but you need to put a hello kitty on either side of it I think.   But seriously - nice looking amp would really like to hear it and more about your impressions.



For sure will be my next amp


----------



## 3083joe

Is this it.?
gibosi


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> So what's good with a Glenn's amp?  Pizza of course.  I don't have to tell you Glenn where this from.


 

 George Lucy says she hates you.
 Showing X New Yorkers living in North Carolina a New York pizza is just mean.


----------



## gibosi

3083joe said:


> Is this it.?


 
  
 Yes, that is the correct adapter. Unfortunately, the 5694 has a different pin-out than any other tube I own. It really makes me wonder why they didn't use the same pin-out as the 6SN7 and ECC32. My suspicion is that it was a marketing decision rather than an engineering decision.


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> George Lucy says she hates you.
> Showing X New Yorkers living in North Carolina a New York pizza is just mean.



Looks great.


----------



## Neogeo333

I'm impress what these Chinese 300b Valve Art tubes can do for what I paid for.  Not in the same level as the Avvt but very close.   These are very good, clear tones, little less microphonic than the Avvt, instruments separation is quite good.  The Avvt still reign in the soundstage dept and bass. But these Valve Art are not that far behind.  Mids and highs are not as crisp as the Avvt but again it's close.  More mellow sound than the Avvt.  I think if I can get these cheap enough I'll get a second backup.  KR and EML in next couple of days.


----------



## TonyNewman

neogeo333 said:


> I'm impress what these Chinese 300b Valve Art tubes can do for what I paid for.  Not in the same level as the Avvt but very close.   These are very good, clear tones, little less microphonic than the Avvt, instruments separation is quite good.  The Avvt still reign in the soundstage dept and bass. But these Valve Art are not that far behind.  Mids and highs are not as crisp as the Avvt but again it's close.  More mellow sound than the Avvt.  I think if I can get these cheap enough I'll get a second backup.  KR and EML in next couple of days.


 
 That's a nice looking amp. Hope to get my hands on my Glenn 300B in the next few weeks (build in progress). Have a pair of TA300Bs to put in it - those are expensive tubes, but the SQ and build quality backs up the price IMHO. I can't say the same about some other high end 300Bs I have tried - good tubes, but way over priced for the performance level.


----------



## Khragon

Can't wait for you to get yours Tony, because that will mean I'm next .
 Don't have TA300B (yet), but I have SERP, Elrog, and WE300B to play with.  
 Recently got myself HE-1000 to complement the HD800, can't wait to give them a try on Glenn 300B.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Can't wait for you to get yours Tony, because that will mean I'm next .
> Don't have TA300B (yet), but I have SERP, Elrog, and WE300B to play with.
> Recently got myself HE-1000 to complement the HD800, can't wait to give them a try on Glenn 300B.


 
  
 I have the SERPs. Good tubes. A little dark with good extension and detail. Doesn't have the mid range magic of the TA300B. Perhaps a little over priced at $1200 USD - the Taks are only a little more cash and are a much better tube IMHO. All the detail and extension of the SERPs combined with mid range magic.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> I have the SERPs. Good tubes. A little dark with good extension and detail. Doesn't have the mid range magic of the TA300B. Perhaps a little over priced at $1200 USD - the Taks are only a little more cash and are a much better tube IMHO. All the detail and extension of the SERPs combined with mid range magic.


 
 I bought the SERP used, got them for $500, with wooden box and all.  Agree regarding your SERP impressions, maybe they will go well with HE1000, since that HPs is already pretty smooth as is.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> I bought the SERP used, got them for $500, with wooden box and all.  Agree regarding your SERP impressions, maybe they will go well with HE1000, since that HPs is already pretty smooth as is.


 
  
 $500 or $600 is a much more reasonable price for the SERPs. $1200 is a bit nuts when comparing to the Taks.


----------



## dminches

The Taks are $1400 and worth every penny!


----------



## Neogeo333

Aside from the monster amp from the east coast another monster amp from the far east coast gets naked and what a beauty she is.  They don't make them like they used too.  Copper heatsink and some internal plates in copper too.  At 53kg it not going anywhere on a rack.


----------



## parbaked

Nice George...very clean!
 My translator is under the weather but I'll resubmit your documents ASAP.
 Now I really want to know what they say about that beauty...


----------



## Neogeo333

Hi Steven,

Dont worry about it let her get better. 

In the mean time i can report that these EML 300b-XLS are wonderful much better than the Valve Art and similar to the Avvt but highs are a bit more controlled. Mids and lows are quite similar. Listening to Tin Pan Alley by the late SRV the Avvt have a bit more detail than the EML and also decay seems a bit longer. Strings sound more natural. Overall the Avvt are still on top of the list followed by the EML and the Valve Art at the bottom but a respectable one for the money i paid. Will report on the KR on the weekend.


----------



## Neogeo333

Forgot the pics.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 How could you forget those pics? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 They are wonderful.


----------



## gibosi

3083joe said:


> Is this it.?
> @gibosi


 
  
 Can I assume that you have found a source for 5694? If so, I would like to get one or two more as backups.
  
 Cheers


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> 3083joe said:
> 
> 
> > Is this it.?
> ...


 
 I would love to try one of these also!
  
 Great pics, George....what a beauty!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Nice George...very clean!
> My translator is under the weather but I'll resubmit your documents ASAP.
> Now I really want to know what they say about that beauty...


 

_"She charges by the word unless you cook for her."_


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> _"She charges by the word unless you cook for her."_


 

 Job done for a big bowl of congee!
 George had a Japanese review of his new, old amp...it won.


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Job done for a big bowl of congee!
> George had a Japanese review of his new, old amp...it won.


 
  
 That sucker has dual fan jets in its rear!


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> That sucker has dual fan jets in its rear!


 

 It's like Noah's Ark...it has two of everything...even power cords!


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> Can I assume that you have found a source for 5694? If so, I would like to get one or two more as backups.
> 
> Cheers


 

 Working on it, Ill let you know


----------



## Silent One

neogeo333 said:


> Aside from the monster amp from the east coast another monster amp from the far east coast gets naked and what a beauty she is.  They don't make them like they used too.  Copper heatsink and some internal plates in copper too.  At 53kg it not going anywhere on a rack.


 
  
 Nearly suffocated the mouse trying to scroll up real fast for a double take..._gorgeous!_


----------



## Silent One

.::.


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> Can I assume that you have found a source for 5694? If so, I would like to get one or two more as backups.
> 
> Cheers



Wow the ck5694s are expensive! Only place that stocks them right now is Valvetubes.com which is where I get all my stuff as they are good people. But the pair is $500!!! Don't know that they are worth that. Also the ecc31s are going up. Have gone from $85 to 165 each.


----------



## parbaked

3083joe said:


> Wow the ck5694s are expensive!


 
 They were only $14 at Brent Jesse but I asked and he's out:
  

  
 You can ask him to email you when he has more...


----------



## 3083joe

Will do. I did email him and he said he was out. I'll email back and ask him to email me. 
Thanks


----------



## gibosi

No, there is no way a pair of 5694 are worth $500. It would seem that they are trying to say that this tube is as good, or better, than the ECC32 and pricing them accordingly....
  
 In addition to Brent Jesse, the following vendors list the 5694, but the last time I checked, they were out of stock:
  
 http://www.vacuumtubes.net/Prices%20701A-WE%20to%205998A.htm
  
 https://tubedepot.com/products/5694
  
 I purchased mine from Leeds Radio
  
 http://leedsradio.com/
  
 Leeds has too many tubes to list them all, so I usually just email him. He had one, but only one, and I bought it. Richard told me that he doesn't think anyone is hoarding these, it is just that it was never a popular tube, so not all that many were made.
  
 I would suggest staying in touch with these vendors and perhaps ask to be put on a notification list if they have one. And of course, keep an eye on eBay.
  
 Cheers


----------



## gibosi

Glenn,
  
 In your basic OTL, can the transformer handle a pair of 6336 and a 5694 (0.8A)? Or an ECC32 (0.95A)? Or a BL63 (1.3A)? Does the position of the 5998 switch make a difference?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Glenn,
> 
> In your basic OTL, can the transformer handle a pair of 6336 and a 5694 (0.8A)? Or an ECC32 (0.95A)? Or a BL63 (1.3A)? Does the position of the 5998 switch make a difference?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 Yes it can handle these tubes.
 See what position of the 5998 switch sounds best with the phones you are using when using 6336s.
 Don't use a wimpy rectifier when using these tubes use the 3DG4 or GZ37


----------



## gibosi

Cossor 53KU, Cetron 6336B and a Raytheon 5694
  

  
 I am quite surprised at how good this combo sounds. I don't have any good low-Z cans, so while I've had this pair of 6336 for over 6 months, I've never felt compelled to really listen to them. Again, these sound very good and this coming winter I can use them as room heaters too. 
  
 By the way, has anyone compared these to the French Thomson CSF 6336?


----------



## gibosi

3083joe said:


> .....Also the ecc31s are going up. Have gone from $85 to 165 each.


 
  
 Once in a while the ECC31 shows up labeled as a 6N7G. The ECC31 and 6N7G are very similar and in many applications they can be considered interchangeable. So here we have an ECC31 labeled as a 6N7G.
  
 The 10E/453 designation tells us that this is indeed an ECC31.
  
 http://frank.pocnet.net/other/ServiceTypes/OldStores.html
  
 My best guess is that during the war effort, with the large amounts of American equipment being shipped to Britain, this told British radio personnel that it was perfectly OK to use an ECC31 in American equipment originally supplied with 6N7G. But again, this is just a guess on my part.


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> Once in a while the ECC31 shows up labeled as a 6N7G. The ECC31 and 6N7G are very similar and in many applications they can be considered interchangeable. So here we have an ECC31 labeled as a 6N7G.
> 
> The 10E/453 designation tells us that this is indeed an ECC31.
> 
> ...



Ok so I've talked to just about every vender out there and most all are sold out and don't know if or ever they will get any more.


----------



## gibosi

3083joe said:


> Ok so I've talked to just about every vender out there and most all are sold out and don't know if or ever they will get any more.


 
  
 I don't think you should be so pessimistic. It just takes patience and a little luck. Eventually, these will pop up somewhere for a price you are willing to pay. But again, patience is key. It may take weeks or even months. In one case, I waited for over a year. But in the end, I got what I wanted.


----------



## whirlwind

I need to snag me a pair of those 6336 power tubes.....are you listening to the HD700 with those, Ken.
  
 I bet they would sound great with my grados and I have toyed with the idea of getting some planars.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Cossor 53KU, Cetron 6336B and a Raytheon 5694
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Not many people have a amp that can run these monsters.


----------



## Neogeo333

gibosi said:


> Cossor 53KU, Cetron 6336B and a Raytheon 5694
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have a pair of the Thompson CSF 6336a that I never used. It should sound different cause the build and structure is different.  If I recall correctly it's smaller to the American 6336.


----------



## Neogeo333

These KR globe bottle 300b are a bittersweet tube.  Love the the vocals and instruments on them but only lack a good sound stage and separation like the Avvt.  Definitely below the Avvt and EML in performance.  It's also a bit grainy sounding.  Still liking the Avvt best followed by the EML and these and the VA.  I know I need more time to give a better review on each but time it's limited right now.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I need to snag me a pair of those 6336 power tubes.....are you listening to the HD700 with those, Ken.
> 
> I bet they would sound great with my grados and I have toyed with the idea of getting some planars.


 
  
 Yes, I am using the HD700. But as these are 150 ohm cans, they are not a good test of how well the 6336 can drive low-Z cans. Someday, I would like to hear these with Grado or planars, just to see...
  
 And I have now added a pair of Thompson CSF 6336a to my watch list. As best as I can tell, there haven't been any on eBay for the last several months... so I may have a long wait. lol.


----------



## whirlwind

My listening session for this evening will include a new Ken Rad 6N7G that I just received today.
  
 I will be listening to Little Hurricane- Gold Fever & Homewrecker albums.
  
 Hoping that the Ken Rad will have some of the magic bass that the Ken Rad 6SN7 has.
  

  

  

  
  

 Ken Rad 6N7G & Chatham 6AS7
  
 I really have been digging Little Hurricane lately....here is a video , if you are unfamiliar with them.


----------



## parbaked

Why aren't you eating pizza or cheese pies?


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> I don't think you should be so pessimistic. It just takes patience and a little luck. Eventually, these will pop up somewhere for a price you are willing to pay. But again, patience is key. It may take weeks or even months. In one case, I waited for over a year. But in the end, I got what I wanted.



Hear ya.


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> Cossor 53KU, Cetron 6336B and a Raytheon 5694
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Love the cossor 53ku!


----------



## Neogeo333

Ok Glenn, no more Brooklyn pizza but how about Brooklyn heroes?  From Lioni Italian Heroes in Bensonhurst.  The Dean Martin on the right and the Bon Jovi on the left.


----------



## rosgr63

Awesome amp George!!!!!!!!!!!
 Enjoy it my friend


----------



## Neogeo333

rosgr63 said:


> Awesome amp George!!!!!!!!!!!
> Enjoy it my friend


 
 Hi Stavros,   now I know what you meant when you were trying to describe the 300b sound to me.


----------



## rosgr63

Pleased you like it!!!!!
 BTW a good pair AVVT are hard to beat.
 Give the KR balloons more time, they are wonderful tubes.


----------



## RAZRr1275

I was wondering what configurations of tubes people have noticed any noise/hum with in the OTL? Just trying to figure out if I'd use enough of those combos to justify getting the upgrade transformer.


----------



## gibosi

razrr1275 said:


> I was wondering what configurations of tubes people have noticed any noise/hum with in the OTL? Just trying to figure out if I'd use enough of those combos to justify getting the upgrade transformer.


 
  
 In my opinion, if you purchase the 5998 switch in order to optimally bias 5998 power tubes, the upgraded transformer is a must.


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> In my opinion, if you purchase the 5998 switch in order to optimally bias 5998 power tubes, the upgraded transformer is a must.



Ever used these?


----------



## Clayton SF

L! I'll see you very soon. Like on Friday!
 Who's getting married on Saturday? Well L is!


----------



## RAZRr1275

gibosi said:


> In my opinion, if you purchase the 5998 switch in order to optimally bias 5998 power tubes, the upgraded transformer is a must.


 

 How much of a benefit do you find the 5998 switch to make? I'll likely either go without the 5998 switch and transformer then or grab both if that's the only combo that gets noisy.


----------



## gibosi

3083joe said:


> Ever used these?


 
  
 No, I don't own the 5692. But I am sure that others here and in the 6SN7 thread can comment on it.


----------



## gibosi

razrr1275 said:


> How much of a benefit do you find the 5998 switch to make? I'll likely either go without the 5998 switch and transformer then or grab both if that's the only combo that gets noisy.


 
  
 I have the 5998 switch with the base transformer, and frankly, I am too distracted by the noise to be able to say. Whirlwind has the 5998 switch with the upgraded transformer, so perhaps he will chime in here.


----------



## RAZRr1275

gibosi said:


> I have the 5998 switch with the base transformer, and frankly, I am too distracted by the noise to be able to say. Whirlwind has the 5998 switch with the upgraded transformer, so perhaps he will chime in here.


 

 Gotcha - do you get noise with any tubes other than the 5998 when you use the switch?


----------



## gibosi

razrr1275 said:


> Gotcha - do you get noise with any tubes other than the 5998 when you use the switch?


 
  
 It is my understanding that in addition to the 5998, only the 6336 and the Russian 6H13C benefit from this switch. Since I am not a fan of the 5998 and I primarily use 6AS7 and 6080, I never use it.
  
 Recently, I have been running a pair of 6336, and out of curiosity, I tried them with the 5998 switch. However, the noise level increased more than I like, so I switched it off. And very frankly, I think the 6336 sound great in the 6AS7 setting.
  
 If the 5998 is an important tube for you, the switch may well be worth getting. But again, in my opinion, if you get the switch, the upgraded transformer is a must.
  
 As always, my ears, my gear and my opinion.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> L! I'll see you very soon. Like on Friday!
> Who's getting married on Saturday? Well L is!


 
  
  
 I'm getting a bit stressed actually


----------



## whirlwind

razrr1275 said:


> I was wondering what configurations of tubes people have noticed any noise/hum with in the OTL? Just trying to figure out if I'd use enough of those combos to justify getting the upgrade transformer.


 
 I only have one set of 5998 tubes, and they are dead silent, but I can't say for sure whether it is the transformer or I just got lucky and got a good set of tubes.
  
 I have not experienced any hum in any combo of tubes that I have used so far.....I have a set of Chatham 6AS7G that is a bit microphonic....other than that the amp has been dead silent.
  
 I have not gotten a set of 6336 tubes yet, but I plan to when I find a nice deal on a nice pair.
  


3083joe said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > In my opinion, if you purchase the 5998 switch in order to optimally bias 5998 power tubes, the upgraded transformer is a must.
> ...


 
 I have not tried these yet, but I also want to grab one of these 5692 red base rca's.


----------



## punit

gibosi said:


> It is my understanding that in addition to the 5998, only the 6336 and the Russian 6H13C benefit from this switch.


 
 Also WE421A


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I only have one set of 5998 tubes, and they are dead silent, but I can't say for sure whether it is the transformer or I just got lucky and got a good set of tubes.


 
  
 I have 5 sets of 5998, and with the 5998 switch enabled, all are noisy, so I am quite sure that the difference is the upgraded transformer.


----------



## rosgr63

ultrainferno said:


> I'm getting a bit stressed actually


 

 Wow, congratulations my friend, well done.


----------



## Ultrainferno

rosgr63 said:


> Wow, congratulations my friend, well done.


 
  
 Thank you Stavros. It's still a mystery to me how I found a girl this great. I have to marry her before she runs away


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Thank you Stavros. It's still a mystery to me how I found a girl this great. I have to marry her before she runs away


 
  
 She'd never run away. You are both great for each other. I knew that years ago!


----------



## parbaked

3083joe said:


> Ever used these?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 I use those in my 45 amp.
 They are fine tubes but I can't tell if they sound better than other vintage 6SN7 tubes.

 They do look the part...


----------



## parbaked

ultrainferno said:


> I have to marry her before she runs away


 
 Congratulations Ultra..Clayton is so very excited to celebrate with you...enjoy!


----------



## rosgr63

Wise decision, Clayton knows very well.


----------



## Ultrainferno

parbaked said:


> Congratulations Ultra..Clayton is so very excited to celebrate with you...enjoy!


 
  
 Thank you. We look forward to seeing him again as well. We couldn't make it to Amsterdam in August so we'll try to get most out of the weekend


----------



## Neogeo333

From the Mandalay Bay buffet.  The ox tail is da bomb.


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> From the Mandalay Bay buffet.


 
 That looks great George! HK boys love buffet!
 Don't show pictures of your dessert plate to Stavros...that would be too cruel!


----------



## Neogeo333

parbaked said:


> That looks great George! HK boys love buffet!
> Don't show pictures of your dessert plate to Stavros...that would be too cruel!


 
 Steven, are you talking about these?


----------



## parbaked

Good thing that stays in Vegas...enjoy!.
 Sorry Stavros...that's as bad showing Glenn and Lucy Brooklyn Pizza!


----------



## dminches

Lieven, congrats on the impending wedding.


----------



## vortrex

blackmore said:


> Speaker stands are Audio Note, speakers looks alike to, but not original AN, are they DIY?
> 
> THX
> 
> added: Ah, I see, already mentioned Shindo




This is my old system. They're not Shindo speakers or Audio Note stands. The speakers are Daedalus Pan.


----------



## Clayton SF

Tomorrow. Seat 35H for 10 hours and 45 minutes.


----------



## Ultrainferno

dminches said:


> Lieven, congrats on the impending wedding.


 
  
 Thank you David 
  


clayton sf said:


> Tomorrow. Seat 35H for 10 hours and 45 minutes.


 
  
 I'll try getting a picture up of Clayton and myself at the party drinking bubbly


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> Good thing that stays in Vegas...enjoy!.
> Sorry Stavros...that's as bad showing Glenn and Lucy Brooklyn Pizza!


 

 With friends like you who needs enemies..............
  
 I am very jealous Steven that ox tail looks so good, must visit the butcher right away.


----------



## Clayton SF

I wonder if they serve oxtails on KLM.


----------



## rosgr63

Not long to go now Clayton, enjoy!!!!!!


----------



## jhljhl

Glenn and Woo adapters. Ebony and Ivory.


----------



## gibosi

Does anyone know anything about a Chatham CH1068? I have not been able to find a datasheet... According to the listing, these are twice the size of a 5998.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-QUAD-NOS-NIB-CHATHAM-CH1068-CH-1068-GIANT-HIGH-END-POWER-TUBES-VINTAGE-/281663196020


----------



## 2359glenn

Looks like a massive power triode it has 3 sections paralleled into a single triode.
 Not a octal base looks like 6 pin


----------



## Skylab

You can buy them cheaper here: http://www.elexs.com/Otl_7241.htm


----------



## 2359glenn

It would be interesting to build a amp based on this tube.
 Problem is replacements for a rare tube like this.


----------



## Neogeo333

Steven I know the Hong Kong boys like buffet but don't forget the hot pot specially in chilli weather.


----------



## parbaked

George...you really know how to live..I love Chinese hot pot!
 I used to go to Beijing every month. Hot pot was my favorite dinner - like that with the personal hot pots and lots of different meats, dumplings and noodles...great!


----------



## whirlwind

neogeo333 said:


> Steven I know the Hong Kong boys like buffet but don't forget the hot pot specially in chilli weather.


 
 George, this looks wonderful, to say the least


----------



## 2359glenn

Tony's amp with Elrog 300Bs
 It's about time somebody  made a thorated tungsten 300B.
 These things sound great I love the sound of thorated tungsten.


----------



## Khragon

Hooray! Beautiful amp Glenn. Glad to hear you are liking tge Elrog. What's the amp spec?


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Hooray! Beautiful amp Glenn. Glad to hear you are liking tge Elrog. What's the amp spec?


 
 Your next we have talk about the particulars.
 8 watts into 38 ohms sounds great
 Do you have 40 ohm phones?


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Tony's amp with Elrog 300Bs
> It's about time somebody  made a thorated tungsten 300B.
> These things sound great I love the sound of thorated tungsten.


 
  
 Wow. Looks fantastic.
  
 Have to get me some Elrogs at some point. Just have to remember to never, ever put them into the WA5.


----------



## RAZRr1275

2359glenn said:


> Tony's amp with Elrog 300Bs
> It's about time somebody  made a thorated tungsten 300B.
> These things sound great I love the sound of thorated tungsten.


 
 That looks lovely - can't wait for my time to come up on the list.


----------



## Neogeo333

Another master piece from the mad scientist.   Great work Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Tony's amp with Elrog 300Bs
> ...


 

 Do you think you will still be using the WA5


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Your next we have talk about the particulars.
> 8 watts into 38 ohms sounds great
> Do you have 40 ohm phones?


 
 Yes! my turn 
 I have the HE1000 which is 35 ohm.
 I'll send you pms.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Your next we have talk about the particulars.
> ...


 
 Perfect match they should sound great


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Do you think you will still be using the WA5


 

  Probably not a lot. No point trying to sell it from NZ. I would get peanuts for it. Nice to have an alternate, I guess.


----------



## Khragon

Looking forward to your impressions Tony.  When are you expecting to receive your Glenn 300B?


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Looking forward to your impressions Tony.  When are you expecting to receive your Glenn 300B?


 
  
 As soon as the testing/burn in is done and Glenn ships the beast. I'm guessing that will be a couple of weeks away, then a week or so to ship and clear customs in my part of the world - I'm pretty relaxed on the timing. I'll be thrilled to get my hands on it anytime before Xmas. Patience is a virtue when it comes to a custom built amp.
  
 One of the really exciting things about this amp is that it has voltage regulation on the 300Bs (my WA5 does not) so it should be safe with the Elrogs. The Elrogs have taken a lot of stick for reliability in the past year or so. Best I can tell, these tubes are very voltage sensitive and putting them in an amp without voltage regulation on the power tubes (WA5/WA234) is asking for trouble. Elrog have recently improved the tubes for reliability, but I still wouldn't put one in a WA5 or WA234 and expect a happy outcome.
  
 Other upgrades I am very glad to have paid a little more for are the 47 point attenuator, as well as the Dueland coupling caps. With a 300B amp pushing 8W, I want to be able to drive insensitive HPs (like my HE6) and more sensitive HPs as well - so an attenuator with more than the standard 24 steps was something I very much wanted. This amp is my tube "end game" unit and I didn't want to skimp on anything. Glenn has been fantastic to deal with and has helped me make the right decisions on all this stuff.
  
 For anyone that wants more detail on this stuff:
  
Goldpoint attenuator
  
Dueland Caps
  
Lundahl Transformers


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Looking forward to your impressions Tony.  When are you expecting to receive your Glenn 300B?


 

 Shipping it Monday after thanks giving. Should be there in a couple of days with FedEx.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Shipping it Monday after thanks giving. Should be there in a couple of days with FedEx.


 
  
 Wow - fantastic - thanks Glenn. Now that I have an importer code my dealings with the NZ Customs folks should go smoothly.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Shipping it Monday after thanks giving. Should be there in a couple of days with FedEx.
> ...


 

 Didn't know customs would be a problem. I know it is in Europe not here in the US.
 It is FedEx you want me to use? They will be expensive It cost $350 to ship a much
 lighter OTL to Italy. Have no Idea what this is going to cost maybe $500 or more.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Didn't know customs would be a problem. I know it is in Europe not here in the US.
> It is FedEx you want me to use? They will be expensive It cost $350 to ship a much
> lighter OTL to Italy. Have no Idea what this is going to cost maybe $500 or more.


 
  
 Fedex - yes please. Happy to pay whatever the charges are. Fedex do a great job on the import side.
  
 NZ has a 15% GST applicable on any import over about $400 NZD in value, plus some other charges also. Anything over $1000 NZD without an importer code gets held until an importer code is obtained (the client code number I PM'ed earlier). So a few hoops for me to jump through, but nothing too onerous now that I have been through it all before and know what to do. Using Fedex eases the pain quite a bit - you get some better service for the money.


----------



## dminches

Glenn, can one use a Western Electric 275A in the 300B amps? 

Tony's amp looks great - just like Selah's cousin.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Glenn, can one use a Western Electric 275A in the 300B amps?
> 
> Tony's amp looks great - just like Selah's cousin.


 

 David
 I did look that up it looks like it will work it seems like it is the same as a 300B.
 With a 5 volt heater and same plate voltage.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Tony's amp with Elrog 300Bs
> It's about time somebody  made a thorated tungsten 300B.
> These things sound great I love the sound of thorated tungsten.


 
 Another beauty, Glenn  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Much fun headed your way, Tony!


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> David
> I did look that up it looks like it will work it seems like it is the same as a 300B.
> With a 5 volt heater and same plate voltage.


 
  
 Does the amp put out less than 300v to the plate?


----------



## Ultrainferno

So I got married and stuff. Had a great time with Clayton, I hope he had as much fun as we did
 Here's the only pic I'll share online
  
 https://www.instagram.com/p/-T7ku5vBnA/
  
 Now stop looking at my wife's ass


----------



## dminches

Congrats.  How about 1 more with both of you facing the camera?
  
 I assume you are out of harm's way?


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> So I got married and stuff. Had a great time with Clayton, I hope he had as much fun as we did
> Here's the only pic I'll share online
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/-T7ku5vBnA/
> ...


 
 Congratulations again to the happy couple!


----------



## lukeap69

ultrainferno said:


> So I got married and stuff. Had a great time with Clayton, I hope he had as much fun as we did
> Here's the only pic I'll share online
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/-T7ku5vBnA/
> ...




Very nice photo. You make a lovely couple. Best wishes!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks guys!
 It's tough here with what's going on, David. I have been working from home as they don't want us to come to the capital. I live in the middle of nowhere tough, we're pretty safe here.


----------



## dminches

Good to hear, Lieven.  Stay away until the craziness ends, which could be never.  I have friends, family and colleagues in NYC and I got there periodically.  It is impossible to be fully safe anywhere.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > David
> ...


 

 425 on the plate good for a 300B


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> So I got married and stuff. Had a great time with Clayton, I hope he had as much fun as we did
> Here's the only pic I'll share online
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/-T7ku5vBnA/
> ...


 

 Congratulations L I am sure you guys had a great time.
 The good times are just beginning.


----------



## Sfox7076

I think Dave was following up on the 275A issue.  The 275A only has a plate dissipation of 17 watts (as opposed to the 300Bs 36 watts).  Are the amps run such that the current and voltage on the plates would be less than 17 watts?
  
 Shawn


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> So I got married and stuff. Had a great time with Clayton, I hope he had as much fun as we did
> Here's the only pic I'll share online
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/-T7ku5vBnA/
> ...


 
  
 I had the best time at the best wedding ever! You, your wife, your family and friends all made me feel like I was a part of your family and even more. It was a wonderful experience to finally see your dreams come true (and mine as well).
  
 That's a great picture—I was there, too! Although a little to the left and off camera.


----------



## 2359glenn

sfox7076 said:


> I think Dave was following up on the 275A issue.  The 275A only has a plate dissipation of 17 watts (as opposed to the 300Bs 36 watts).  Are the amps run such that the current and voltage on the plates would be less than 17 watts?
> 
> Shawn


 

 The current can be turned down by adjusting the bias but not te plate voltage.
 If this tube can handle the plate voltage the wattage and plate current can be calculated and set.


----------



## Sfox7076

In this instance, the 275A it won't work I don't think.  Assuming you run B+ on the plates of 425v anyway.  The 275A is rated to only 300 volts based on the WE datasheet (the WE datasheet for the 300B states it is only rated to 400 volts http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/084/3/300B.pdf, but I know they fudged that and that new 300Bs generally are rated to 450v.  WE is more adamant that the plate dissipation should be no more than 36 watts on the 300B (17 watts on the 275A)).  Anyway, if the 275A could handle 425 volts on the plate (which it cannot), you could only bias it to a max of 40ma before you reached the maximum plate dissipation.  On the 300B, with 425 on the plates, your bias is around 85ma before you reach 36 watts.


----------



## Neogeo333

Happy Thanksgiving all.  Finally after an hour of wait.


----------



## parbaked

Nice George...you just gave my turkey an inferiority complex!
 Fortunately Clayton is bringing one of his yummy pecan pies tonight....
 Bad news is that crab season is late this year.
 Usually crab season starts just before Thanksgiving so we have huge dungeness mess before turkey.


----------



## Neogeo333

Yummy pecan pie, i have mostly a carnivorous menu here. Could use some dessert. Since its most likely my last thanksgiving in PR my mom wanted to thank most of her friends and family for all their support. Gonna post some more later on.


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Thanksgiving to every one.
 Eat to much!
 I know George and Steven will


----------



## Khragon

Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## whirlwind

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
  
 George, that pig looks wonderful.


----------



## Neogeo333

It taste better than it looks.   Goes down well with a couple of Heineken.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Heineken? I need to get you guys some real beer.

Happy thanksgiving to my US friends!


----------



## Khragon

Look yummy. Those look like what we'll be having for dinner tonight, of course we throw in turkey and han to complete the feast.

On a more headfi note, anyone here planning to buy the massdrop x fostex th x00? I've been searching for a closed can for movies and late night loud listening, this seems to answer the call.


----------



## Neogeo333

I would love some from the monk monastery.


----------



## Ultrainferno

neogeo333 said:


> I would love some from the monk monastery.


 
  
 Which one?


----------



## Neogeo333

ultrainferno said:


> Which one?


 
 Wesvleteren or Rochefort?


----------



## Clayton SF

Pie is done. Drinking a glass of wine before I get on my horse to visit parbaked and his family.


----------



## Neogeo333

clayton sf said:


> Pie is done. Drinking a glass of wine before I get on my horse to visit parbaked and his family.


 
 Now thats a pie.  A long time friend brought me flan of queso and pineapple.  And also a sangria made out of rum. vodka, wine, soda, and whats not.  Half a glass and im feeling a good note.  Cheers everyone.


----------



## parbaked

Clayton's pie was epic...really, really good!


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Clayton's pie was epic...really, really good!


 

 And so was your mother's cooking.
 Lobster tails! Incredible. (No crab this season.)
 Turkey and all the trimmings (and then some too). Fantastic!
 Not to mention your father opening a 1975 Vintage Port! That was awesome!


----------



## Neogeo333

Is it my imagination or is that sticky rice with mushrooms and sausage in the ceramic pot.  Looking at it I'm already hungry.  Nice Steven and Clayton.


----------



## Clayton SF

neogeo333 said:


> Is it my imagination or is that sticky rice with mushrooms and sausage in the ceramic pot.  Looking at it I'm already hungry.  Nice Steven and Clayton.


 
Yes. Yes. Yes.


----------



## RAZRr1275

clayton sf said:


> Yes. Yes. Yes.


 

 Do you have a recipe for that by chance?  Or the pie for that matter... Both look quite delicious


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> Is it my imagination or is that sticky rice with mushrooms and sausage in the ceramic pot.  Looking at it I'm already hungry.  Nice Steven and Clayton.


 

 Yes George...I was thinking you'd like my Mom's rice stuffing with Chinese sausage and mushrooms! 
 Wish you were here...Clayton and I couldn't finish the port!


----------



## Neogeo333

The secret is the pot, the older the better.   Wish I could be there too.  Nothing better than mom's cooking right?


----------



## punit

tonynewman said:


>


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






> As soon as the testing/burn in is done and Glenn ships the beast. I'm guessing that will be a couple of weeks away, then a week or so to ship and clear customs in my part of the world - I'm pretty relaxed on the timing. I'll be thrilled to get my hands on it anytime before Xmas. Patience is a virtue when it comes to a custom built amp.
> 
> One of the really exciting things about this amp is that it has voltage regulation on the 300Bs (my WA5 does not) so it should be safe with the Elrogs. The Elrogs have taken a lot of stick for reliability in the past year or so. Best I can tell, these tubes are very voltage sensitive and putting them in an amp without voltage regulation on the power tubes (WA5/WA234) is asking for trouble. Elrog have recently improved the tubes for reliability, but I still wouldn't put one in a WA5 or WA234 and expect a happy outcome.
> 
> ...


 
  


 Did you get a high / low impedance switch for your amp ?


----------



## punit

khragon said:


> On a more headfi note, anyone here planning to buy the massdrop x fostex th x00? I've been searching for a closed can for movies and late night loud listening, this seems to answer the call.


 
 The Fostex Th series are closed only in name, they leak sound. Maybe not as much as HD 800 but quite a lot compared to closed HP's like LCD XC.Someone in the same room can make out what music you are listening to if you do not listen at low volume.


----------



## Clayton SF

razrr1275 said:


> Do you have a recipe for that by chance?  Or the pie for that matter... Both look quite delicious


 
  
 Hi—I don't have the recipe for the sticky rice with mushrooms and sausage, @parbaked Steven's mother made that wonderful dish. But I do have the recipe for the Pecan Pie and would gladly share it with everyone. It is very simple to make. Enjoy!
  
 I followed this recipe but made one change (ok, two changes):
  
 1. I used store-bought crust.
 2. Instead of 8 egg yolks, I used 2 egg yolks and 2 whole eggs.
  
 These are very important things to remember when baking the pie: Make sure the filled pie bakes at 325ºF because if you bake your own crust, the oven starts off at 425º F, gets reduced to 375º F, and then finishes off at 325º F. _Once I forgot to adjust the baking temperature to finish the pie and almost burnt my nuts; unless you like smoky nuts._
  
 Note: Some people think that this pie doesn't taste sweet enough, however; I find it sweet enough. Just make sure you use 2/3 cup of _*packed*_ brown sugar. Otherwise if you don't pack that measuring cup, it won't be sweet enough.
  
 Note: Steven and his gf loved this version because it wasn't cloyingly sweet and a bit custardy (if you use 8 egg yolks—I find the 2-yolk, 2-whole-eggs version good too, although not as custardy).
  
 Here's the written version: _*Southern Pecan Pie*_
  
 And the video:


----------



## TonyNewman

punit said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The subject never came up - no impedance switch that I know of.


----------



## TonyNewman

Some pics from Glenn of my amp about to ship... happy to share the love
  
 ...
  
 Gold Point attenuator and Duelund caps.

 The blue pots on the blocks of phenolic blocks are the 5 volt adjustment for the 300B filaments.


 5 Volt regulators on heat sinks.  Old School


----------



## Khragon

Very nice, true point to point wiring! 
 I think Woo amps now used more PCBs if I remembered correctly.


----------



## abvolt

I agree that amp sure looks good..


----------



## punit

tonynewman said:


> The subject never came up - no impedance switch that I know of.


 
 As per my knowledge Glenn's 300B amp is optimised to drive HP's of around 50 Ohms by default, I was discussing with him the option of having an  impedance switch so that the amp can also drive high impd HP's like HD 800.


----------



## TonyNewman

punit said:


> As per my knowledge Glenn's 300B amp is optimised to drive HP's of around 50 Ohms by default, I was discussing with him the option of having an  impedance switch so that the amp can also drive high impd HP's like HD 800.


 
  
 I never thought to ask. Hopefully it will be OK with my HD800s as is.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> punit said:
> 
> 
> > As per my knowledge Glenn's 300B amp is optimised to drive HP's of around 50 Ohms by default, I was discussing with him the option of having an  impedance switch so that the amp can also drive high impd HP's like HD 800.
> ...


 

 It sounds fine with the HD-800s been just Listening to it with the 800s
  
 More pictures for Tony to drool over


----------



## whirlwind

Just beautiful, Glenn. A work of art.
  
 I can only imagine how it sounds.


----------



## raybone0566

Great looking amp, very nice Glenn


----------



## TonyNewman




----------



## Badas




----------



## TonyNewman

Getting a mild boner in expectation of getting my hands on this great looking amp. C3G driver + TA300B power tube is going to be a magic combination.
  
 My WA5 is likely to get boxed up and packed away. Probably only get unboxed if the unthinkable happens


----------



## 2359glenn

Out in truck to go to FedEx


----------



## Khragon

Nice! you know you will need to do the obligatory unboxing pics right Tony? So we can count how many float tubes Glenn used .


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Nice! you know you will need to do the obligatory unboxing pics right Tony? So we can count how many float tubes Glenn used .


 
  
 Definitely there will be some unboxing pics. And some pics of the thing running with the TA300Bs inserted.


----------



## whirlwind

khragon said:


> Nice! you know you will need to do the obligatory unboxing pics right Tony? So we can count how many float tubes Glenn used .


 






....You will not find a better packing job....period!!!!


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> ....You will not find a better packing job....period!!!!


 
  
 It has to be Hobbit and Sheep proof.
  
 Will post lots of pics and first impressions. Have a warmed up set of TA300Bs just waiting to go into it.
  
 For those that haven't heard the TA300B - it is a magic tube.


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> So I got married and stuff. Had a great time with Clayton, I hope he had as much fun as we did
> Here's the only pic I'll share online
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/-T7ku5vBnA/
> ...


 
 Congrats on your new journey!


----------



## Ultrainferno

silent one said:


> Congrats on your new journey!


 
  
 thank you!


----------



## punit

Glenn's OTL running 6336 (on 5998 setting) + B65 metal base + RCA 3DG4 is a good match with Hifiman Ed X


----------



## whirlwind

Very nice punit.
  
 I just love looking at pictures of all of the amps that Glenn has built....I hope more people will post some  ....in between the food pics, of course  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I really need to grab me a pair of 6336 tubes, I keep saying this, but end up buying other power tubes or 6/12/25 SN7
  
 Is they much difference in the sound of the different 6336 tubes ?
  
 Looking for any input on this.
  
 Another plus of these tubes for me will be that it is just starting to get to what I call as a different kind of cold....you know, when it's windy, the air has that very cold bite to it , so these may just warm my listening station a wee bit.


----------



## Ultrainferno

whirlwind said:


> Very nice punit.
> 
> I just love looking at pictures of all of the amps that Glenn has built....I hope more people will post some  ....in between the food pics, of course
> 
> ...


 
  

  
 I still have a whole bunch of those excellent NOS Cetron 6336A, I should sell them. Don't even have an amp for them


----------



## whirlwind

Great pic Ultrainferno...thanks for posting that.
  
 I have been treating myself every Saturday night with my favorite power tubes.
  
 Tonight I am listening to Super Tramp - Retrospectacle, with this combo and the sound is superb.


----------



## 3083joe

whirlwind said:


> Great pic Ultrainferno...thanks for posting that.
> 
> I have been treating myself every Saturday night with my favorite power tubes.
> 
> Tonight I am listening to Super Tramp - Retrospectacle, with this combo and the sound is superb.



Very beautiful


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Very beautiful


 
  
 +1. Really nice pics.


----------



## TonyNewman

My Glenn 300B has cleared customs and the duty has been paid. Should get this before the end of the week. Will post plenty of pics of the unboxing and setup.
  
 My HeadFi buddy Badas will be popping around sometime in December for a listen and comparison with my WA5. Will post detailed impressions then. Always best to have a second opinion on this sort of thing.
  
 The C3G driver adds so much to the SQ - really looking forward to having an amp designed for this wonderful tube in combination with the magic of the 300B.
  
 EDIT - Fedex have released the amp for delivery. Unless the world ends I will have it this week. Boner!!


----------



## Khragon

Exciting times! Looking forward to your unboxing and impressions.

Glenn is starting on my amp, getting Glenn 300b will complete my audio setup, can't wait, but must be patience .


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> My Glenn 300B has cleared customs and the duty has been paid. Should get this before the end of the week. Will post plenty of pics of the unboxing and setup.
> 
> My HeadFi buddy Badas will be popping around sometime in December for a listen and comparison with my WA5. Will post detailed impressions then. Always best to have a second opinion on this sort of thing.
> 
> ...




You bet ya I'm going to have a listen. I told FedEx to redirect the package to my place.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> You bet ya I'm going to have a listen. I told FedEx to redirect the package to my place.


 
  
 Nice try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Won't feel real until I have the beast setup with my Taks in it. Having heard the C3G + TA300B combination with the WA5 it is hard to go back to anything else.


----------



## Rossliew

So Tony, the WA5 will be put up for sale soon?


----------



## TonyNewman

rossliew said:


> So Tony, the WA5 will be put up for sale soon?


 
  
 Might keep it as a paper weight and eye candy. It certainly *looks *nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The WA5 might still have a place. I have it running TA300B / TA274B / TS RP. The sound is warm and highly musical, but somewhat veiled compared to what the C3G driver can do. Still, it is a very engaging and pleasant sound. Nice thing to have around. Pairs quite nicely with nuetral-ish cans like Ether C / HD800 / HE6.
  
 Besides, shipping from NZ to anywhere else would be _*brutal*_, if not prohibitive. The Fedex on my Glenn amp to Auckland was enough to make my chocolate starfish pucker. Not as pricey a new pair of TA300Bs, but not that far away either.


----------



## Rossliew

Lol! But I do agree the WA5 makes nice eye candy..


----------



## whirlwind

tonynewman said:


> My Glenn 300B has cleared customs and the duty has been paid. Should get this before the end of the week. Will post plenty of pics of the unboxing and setup.
> 
> My HeadFi buddy Badas will be popping around sometime in December for a listen and comparison with my WA5. Will post detailed impressions then. Always best to have a second opinion on this sort of thing.
> 
> ...


 
 Pretty excited to see your pics and hear your comparison with the WA5.
  
 Good times are very close, Tony


----------



## punit

whirlwind said:


> Pretty excited to see your pics and hear your comparison with the WA5.


 
 +1. No one has done a review (even a brief one) or any kind of write up on Glenn's 300B amp till now.


----------



## Ultrainferno

punit said:


> +1. No one has done a review (even a brief one) or any kind of write up on Glenn's 300B amp till now.


 
  
 I have on several occasions compared review units to my 300B though, but there was no dedicated review of it.


----------



## lukeap69

ultrainferno said:


> I have on several occasions compared review units to my 300B though, but there was no dedicated review of it.



Thanks for volunteering L.


----------



## punit

Ultrainferno,

Can you please send me the links for those reviews. 

Thanks


----------



## Ultrainferno

Pfew, I have to say that I can't remember. I've written hundreds of reviews


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> Pretty excited to see your pics and hear your comparison with the WA5.


 
  
 I'll throw some initial thoughts out there after a week or so, but wait until I have a second set of ears (Badas) before launching into anything in depth. Might just be me, but I have always found tremendous value in getting another audio nutter involved.
  
 EDIT - picking up amp tomorrow morning from the Fedex depot. Unboxing / setup pics coming soon.


----------



## TonyNewman

Unboxing:
  
 20kg of tube amp goodness.
  

  
 Excellent pack job that protected the amp perfectly.
  

  
 The goodness that resides within.
  

  
 The naked amp. My poor camera work doesn't do a good job of showing how great the build quality on this beast really is.
  
 In a word - superb.


----------



## Khragon

Thanks Tony,
  
 That sure is a beast of an amp!
 Your pictures feed my appetite for Glenn 300B amp... for now.
 Can't wait to hear your impressions and even more excited to get my own now.
  
 Question, from the look of it, look like the 300B sockets are mounted with the larger pins closer to the front plate right?  I prefer that better than Woo, where the pins are flip 180deg, which hide all the nice tube labels.


----------



## TonyNewman

Time to fire this baby up. The PY500s are fresh Telefunkens. The C3Gs are Lorenz (rebranded Siemens) with a few hundred hours on them. The Taks have 500+ hours and are stable.
  

  
  

  

  

  
 I couldn't resist running through some of my favorite test tracks for bass / treble / male vocal / female vocal. Right out of the box this thing KILLS.
  
 I will leave the detailed analysis until I have a session with my HeadFi buddy Donovan (Badas) in a week or two. A second set of ears is always a good idea when doing A/B comparisons, plus it will give me a chance to put some more hours on the amp and the tubes, but I do have some early impressions I am happy to share.
  
 I was hoping that this amp would deliver the best of the TA300B and C3G combination. These are both very special tubes indeed. The TA300B combines "vintage WE300B-like" mids with improved extension (up and down). The C3G is a driver with simply stunning detail, dynamics and transparency. Together they promised great things in my WA5, but that amp just couldn't deal with the C3Gs for me. It had elevated tonality that eventually bugged the heck out of me - forcing me to revert to the venerable TS RP. It says a lot about the C3G that this was a big leap backwards in SQ. Kinda like listening through a sock compared to the C3G. A very nice sock, but still a sock. Sorry TS RP, you don't cut it anymore.
  
 No such issue with the Glenn 300B - you get a level of detail and dynamics that is almost SS, combined with the tube magic of the TA300B. I don't think anyone can ask more from a tube amp.
  
 Once I get Donovan around we will spend some time doing A/B against the WA5 and 430HA and Taurus Mk2 with a range of headphones and post the results here.
  
 In my audio journey over the past 3 years I have made some happy purchases and some rather dumb ones. This amp is definitely in the former.
  
 One last thing - the small extra cost for the V47 attenuator vs the the standard V24 was a wise move - it's nice to have that extra level of volume control.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Thanks Tony,
> 
> That sure is a beast of an amp!
> Your pictures feed my appetite for Glenn 300B amp... for now.
> ...


 
  
 Glenn thought about that and got me to confirm the orientation of my favourite 300B (you can guess which that is) so the mounting was aligned correctly. That level of attention to detail is typical of Glenn - and it shows in the SQ of the final product.


----------



## TonyNewman

One last pic - the PY500s glow beautifully in a darkened room. I wish I was a better photographer. I took several pics - this one is about the best:
  

  
 Glowing tubes give me a nerdgasm every time.
  
 Now I am going to play though some of my favorite vocal tracks and enjoy this wonderful amp


----------



## Khragon

^^ me want


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> ^^ me want


 
  
 Do it. Take out a second mortgage. Sell your internal organs. Sell your kids. Whatever it takes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Have my Ether Cs on right now. Modded HD800s might be an even better match for this amp - way too early to tell. Stunning with both so far. Will try my modded HE6 later.
  
 There is something truly special about the match of the 300B and C3G driver. The insane transparency of the C3G gives the 300B every chance to highlight what it can do, and with the Takatsukis that is quite a lot. This amp screams out for the very best 300Bs - it will take them up to another level and showcase what they can do. ER300B / TA300B / WE300B - that sort of thing. I will try my SERPs later, but I just know that they will be a step down from the Taks (that was the case in the WA5, I expect the Glenn amp to highlight the difference even more).
  
 I have Loreena McKennitt playing. I have never heard her wonderful vocals presented so well before. Haunting, intimate, detailed yet luscious and warm. I have to stop before I starting sounding like a 6 Moons spiel


----------



## 2359glenn

I guess you like it?
 I was worried you wouldn't like it after spending all that money.
 Good thing that you are having nerdgasums


----------



## Ultrainferno

Again, a wonderful looking, and no doubt sounding, amplifier, Glenn.
 Is there any reason you're using these meters now? I prefer the ones I have


----------



## 2359glenn

I used them because of the large high quality 4pin sockets I used took up allot of space.


----------



## whirlwind

Congrats Tony, that is a beautiful amp.....told you you would love it!


----------



## TonyNewman

ultrainferno said:


> Again, a wonderful looking, and no doubt sounding, amplifier, Glenn.
> Is there any reason you're using these meters now? I prefer the ones I have


 
  
 I love the 1930s old school look of those round meters. Very nice.


----------



## 2359glenn

Getting hard to get nobody has them in stock the square ones are the norm now.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Getting hard to get nobody has them in stock the square ones are the norm now.


 
  
 I think I will keep mine, despite the square meters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Otherwise it would be kinda like trashing a Ferrari because the ashtray is full.
  
 Those round meters do give me a nerd chubby.
  
 I don't think it makes much difference sonically which PY500 you use (I will roll them in the coming weeks and find out), but those big Telefunkens sure do look nice. An orange glow from top and bottom. Very nice.


----------



## 2359glenn

Nice $2 rectifiers will trash any 5 volt rectifier. There is no 5 volt rectifier that can handle 1 amp or 1000ma with little voltage drop.
 I bought 20 of them for $1.00 each.
 You are not going to hear much difference they are so over kill that that the voltage drop between them is minimal.


----------



## Khragon

I bought my self a couple pairs of these py500 from eBay. Where can I get 20 for $1 each?


----------



## musicman59

2359glenn said:


> I guess you like it?
> I was worried you wouldn't like it after spending all that money.
> Good thing that you are having nerdgasums


 
 Congrats Tony! I am envious!!! 
  
 Glenn,
 I hope you get to mine in your list soon!! Please!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

I got them from ESRC dollar days.
 $1 tubes that nobody wants. I used to get the 3DG4s I used in the OTL for $1.00 too.
 Another tube that is only used in old TVs and my amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > ^^ me want
> ...


 

 You will have to readjust the bias with the SERPs


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> You will have to readjust the bias with the SERPs


 
  
 Will do.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Time to fire this baby up. The PY500s are fresh Telefunkens. The C3Gs are Lorenz (rebranded Siemens) with a few hundred hours on them. The Taks have 500+ hours and are stable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Love this will be my next amp.


----------



## jhljhl

neogeo333 said:


> These KR globe bottle 300b are a bittersweet tube.  Love the the vocals and instruments on them but only lack a good sound stage and separation like the Avvt.  Definitely below the Avvt and EML in performance.  It's also a bit grainy sounding.  Still liking the Avvt best followed by the EML and these and the VA.  I know I need more time to give a better review on each but time it's limited right now.


 
  
 Anymore comparisons on your end?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  How are the KR now?  Have you tried eml xls?


----------



## jhljhl

ultrainferno said:


> Pimp up fase 2 done
> 
> 
> 
> Now just put the spikes more to the corners when my amp is in my office, but I forgot


 

 I wonder how this compares to the other rectifiers 300b amp?


----------



## Khragon

Quote:


jhljhl said:


> I wonder how this compares to the other rectifiers 300b amp?


 
   
 Glenn answered your question on the previous page:
 Quote:


2359glenn said:


> Nice $2 rectifiers will trash any 5 volt rectifier. There is no 5 volt rectifier that can handle 1 amp or 1000ma with little voltage drop.
> I bought 20 of them for $1.00 each.
> You are not going to hear much difference they are so over kill that that the voltage drop between them is minimal.


 
 With that said, I'm sure Glenn worked his magic to handle standard 5U4G rectifier to minimize the voltage drop.
  
 Besides the c3g + 300B pairing, which I tried and really like on my WA5 thanks to Glenn adapter, one of the reason I'm going for Glenn 300B is cheap rectifiers, after spending $800 for a pair of WE422A to get the WA5 to sound good enough for my expectation I began wondering if a better designed amp using cheaper rectifier/driver are available.  That eventually lead me to this thread, well as they say the rest is history, I'm waiting patiently for my very own Glenn 300B now.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> jhljhl said:
> ...


 

 I pretty much switched to TV damper diodes in all my amps. Why have high price low quality rectifiers with bloated sound
   when in the end you end up with a low voltage drop WE422A.
 A TV damper diode has a lower voltage drop then a 422 so might as well start out with the best at a low cost and no playing
 with tube rolling. It don't matter what brand damper diode 42EC4 you use the voltage drop of all of them are so low they all sound
 the same.


----------



## TonyNewman

> Originally Posted by *2359glenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ..... It don't matter what brand damper diode 42EC4 you use the voltage drop of all of them are so low they all sound
> the same.


 
  
 But the Telefunkens glow ever so nicely...
  

  
 I bought a bunch of different PY500s mostly for fun and because it is relatively inexpensive to do so. Langrex has *thousands *of very nice Mullard PY500s (branded as Grenada Television). Under 10 pounds per tube, if I remember correctly (buy 10 or 12 and ask for a bulk discount - they are good that way). These are also great looking tubes, but I prefer the lovely glow of the Telefunkens.
  
 Mullard on the left, Telefunken on the right. I will install some Mullards tonight and try to take some nice pics of the glow.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I pretty much switched to TV damper diodes in all my amps. Why have high price low quality rectifiers with bloated sound
> when in the end you end up with a low voltage drop WE422A.
> A TV damper diode has a lower voltage drop then a 422 so might as well start out with the best at a low cost and no playing
> with tube rolling. It don't matter what brand damper diode 42EC4 you use the voltage drop of all of them are so low they all sound
> the same.


 
  
 Is voltage drop the only factor that affects the sound of a rectifier? For example, the voltage drop of a GZ34/5AR4 is commonly listed as 17, which is apparently even lower than the WE422A (vdrop = 26). However, not all GZ34/5AR4 sound the same. So is it that GZ34 manufactured in different factories by different companies actually have a slightly different voltage drop? Or is there something else at play?


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> > Originally Posted by *2359glenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> > ..... It don't matter what brand damper diode 42EC4 you use the voltage drop of all of them are so low they all sound
> > the same.
> ...


 

 They do have a massave cathode with a high power heater that glows nicely.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I pretty much switched to TV damper diodes in all my amps. Why have high price low quality rectifiers with bloated sound
> ...


 
  A rectifier has no sound  no audio goes through the rectifier it changes AC  to DC.
 The voltage drop is rated at a specific current if your amp draws less current the drop will be less.
 So you don't really know what one is dropping more I would say the 5AR4 as it is not as powerful of tube.
 And your amp is a power hog that is why it sounds so good.


----------



## jhljhl

khragon said:


> Quote:
> With that said, I'm sure Glenn worked his magic to handle standard 5U4G rectifier to minimize the voltage drop.
> 
> Besides the c3g + 300B pairing, which I tried and really like on my WA5 thanks to Glenn adapter, one of the reason I'm going for Glenn 300B is cheap rectifiers, after spending $800 for a pair of WE422A to get the WA5 to sound good enough for my expectation I began wondering if a better designed amp using cheaper rectifier/driver are available.  That eventually lead me to this thread, well as they say the rest is history, I'm waiting patiently for my very own Glenn 300B now.


 

 I would be on the waitlist myself now but no pun intended couldn't wait- probably later though.  I guess you have little in tube rolling with this particular model Glenn designed.  You'd really have to like the c3g.  But I bet he can design for other tubes like the popular 6sn7, 6922 etc. if that weren't the best tube preferred.  Also, since I have and like 5 volt rectifiers I might go with the type Glenn designed for Ultra not sure though.


----------



## TonyNewman

jhljhl said:


> I would be on the waitlist myself now but no pun intended couldn't wait- probably later though.  I guess you have little in tube rolling with this particular model Glenn designed.  You'd really have to like the c3g.  But I bet he can design for other tubes like the popular 6sn7, 6922 etc. if that weren't the best tube preferred.  Also, since I have and like 5 volt rectifiers I might go with the type Glenn designed for Ultra not sure though.


 
  
 My 2 cents - I really like the C3G as the transparency king. If you want a tube amp that has detail, dynamics and extension close to a SS amp then I think a 6SN7 driver might struggle to do that.
  
 Another issue is that the 6SN7 is not a great choice to drive the 300B. Glenn can talk to this better than I can, but my understanding is that it is a less than ideal match. You can hear this in the upper registers - the 6SN7 really struggles to drive the 300B properly up high while the C3G does not. I did this while A/B testing in my WA5 swapping out C3G vs TS RPs.
  
 I have a pair of frightfully expensive TA274Bs. These are fantastic tubes - perhaps better than the vintage WE274B according to those lucky few that have heard both - but if I can get superb transparency from a $5 or $10 PY500 then that makes me happy. Best I can tell, the Glenn amp tube setup is doing what I expected - tremendous transparency from the PY500 and C3G - the character of the sound is coming from the 300B. I have tried the SERP and TA300B so far - both sounded great, but the TA300B has that special thing in the mids that for vocals is hard to beat.


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > Quote:
> ...


 

 Ultra uses the C3g driver it just uses a 5U4 rectifier.
 I can make a amp that uses a 6SN7 but why it won't sound as good as a C3g.


----------



## TonyNewman

Some more PY500 glow pics. This one has Telefunken on the left and Mullard on the right.
  
 Not a lot in it to my eyes. Telefunken might have a touch more glow on the bottom, but either looks great to me.
  

  
 SQ - I can't tell any difference whatsoever.
  
 The Telefunkens can be hard to find. I would recommending getting a dozen NIB Mullards from Langrex and be done with it.


----------



## Khragon

I ordered a couple set of py500 too, Mullard, Telefunken, Sylvania, and RCA. I'll pick the one that glow the best to use .

I think just rolling 300b is good for me, knowing that c3g will bring the best out of each 300b. I would say there are enough 300b out there to satisfying everyone.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> I ordered a couple set of py500 too, Mullard, Telefunken, Sylvania, and RCA. I'll pick the one that glow the best to use
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's the spirit - go for the glow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have a half dozen different brands. If I find anything that significantly outglows the Telefunken or Mullard I'll post some pics.


----------



## jhljhl

2359glenn said:


> Ultra uses the C3g driver it just uses a 5U4 rectifier.
> I can make a amp that uses a 6SN7 but why it won't sound as good as a C3g.


 

 I guess I'll try out the C3g and figure out its sound.  The 300b will really determine the sound sig.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > I ordered a couple set of py500 too, Mullard, Telefunken, Sylvania, and RCA. I'll pick the one that glow the best to use
> ...


 

 If you have a RCA made in USA it glows brighter they have a different build then the others if it is not a rebrand from Europe.


----------



## TonyNewman

I have 3 of the buggers. Will roll those in shortly and check the glow. I am a total glow-whore.


----------



## whirlwind

Here are the RCA's that you sent with my amp, Glenn.


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> Here are the RCA's that you sent with my amp, Glenn.


 
  
 Nice pics! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Here's what I get - lovely orange glow, particularly around the base.


----------



## 2359glenn

They all look good to me It is part of why I used them.


----------



## dminches

tonynewman said:


> Some more PY500 glow pics. This one has Telefunken on the left and Mullard on the right.
> 
> Not a lot in it to my eyes. Telefunken might have a touch more glow on the bottom, but either looks great to me.
> 
> ...




I tried to buy 2 pair from them but they were defective and so were the replacements. I just gave up.


----------



## Neogeo333

jhljhl said:


> Anymore comparisons on your end?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I left the amp in NY while I finish some matter elsewhere so I cant give any more impressions on it.  Got to spend a total of 5 days with it.   Cant wait to get back to NY.


----------



## TonyNewman

dminches said:


> I tried to buy 2 pair from them but they were defective and so were the replacements. I just gave up.


 
  
 That is very unlucky. Did you contact Langrex on the replacements? I have found Langrex to be very good on service and quality of the goods sold (YMMV).
  
 I have tried only 2 Mullards so far (I have 20 of them) - both worked fine, but that was only for an hour or so.


----------



## whirlwind

dminches said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > Some more PY500 glow pics. This one has Telefunken on the left and Mullard on the right.
> ...


 
 I had one of four tubes I bought defective...they did replace it with no issues.


----------



## dminches

tonynewman said:


> That is very unlucky. Did you contact Langrex on the replacements? I have found Langrex to be very good on service and quality of the goods sold (YMMV).
> 
> I have tried only 2 Mullards so far (I have 20 of them) - both worked fine, but that was only for an hour or so.




I did contact them but it was clear that they weren't testing the tubes before sending them out.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > That is very unlucky. Did you contact Langrex on the replacements? I have found Langrex to be very good on service and quality of the goods sold (YMMV).
> ...


 

 Only one of them are bad. I have the filaments hooked in series so if one is bad the other won't light up.
 I would test them one at a time with another known good tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

David
 Now you are not the only one with one of these amps.


----------



## jhljhl

Anyone have both the 300b and otl?


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> Anyone have both the 300b and otl?


 

 David does


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> David does


 
  
 And Clayton as well, no?


----------



## Khragon

I do plan to get an otl from Glenn in the future. But got to recover from the 300b first .


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > David does
> ...


 

 Claton's is more made for speakers
 yours is really for speakers too but  _put a headphone jack on it _
_Really yours and Clayton's are the same except his are mono blocks_


----------



## whirlwind

jhljhl said:


> Anyone have both the 300b and otl?


 
 I don't......but it is a dream of mine  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Man, Clayton has some insane gear.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> Only one of them are bad. I have the filaments hooked in series so if one is bad the other won't light up.
> I would test them one at a time with another known good tube.


 
  
 Glenn, thanks for the tip.  One of the 2 replacements works.  The tube is labled Solus.  No clue who actually made it.


----------



## whirlwind

dminches said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Only one of them are bad. I have the filaments hooked in series so if one is bad the other won't light up.
> ...


 
 That is what mine were also...when I ordered I asked for Mullard


----------



## jhljhl

khragon said:


> I do plan to get an otl from Glenn in the future. But got to recover from the 300b first
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah I might do the reverse though.  I think Gibosi has got the kind of otl design I'm thinking of now as it got the c3g inputs too.


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn, what's the waiting time for a build now?


----------



## Oskari

dminches said:


> The tube is labled Solus.  No clue who actually made it.


 
  
 You never know with these rebranders. However, the tubes pictured in the following auctions were both made by Ei. You can see the codes in the photos.
  

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-PY500-A-SOLUS-ELECTRONIC-VALVE-TUBE-MADE-IN-ENGLAND-/121536778436
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PY500A-GRANADA-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-/271983391447


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> That is what mine were also...when I ordered I asked for Mullard


 
  
 EDIT - bugger - I though the tubes pictured below were made by Mullard. As per above they were made by 'Ei' (never heard of them).
  
 They do seem well made and the 2 I have used worked fine. I can't tell any SQ difference whatsoever with the different PY500s I have tried so far.


----------



## Oskari

tonynewman said:


> EDIT - bugger - I though the tubes pictured below were made by Mullard. As per above they were made by 'Ei' (never heard of them).


 
  
 I wouldn't worry about that too much. I guess it's a Philips design made by Philips companies, such as Mullard, and associated companies, such as Ei.


----------



## TonyNewman

oskari said:


> I wouldn't worry about that too much. I guess it's a Philips design made by Philips companies, such as Mullard, and associated companies, such as Ei.


 
  
 Absolutely. I don't think it makes any difference to the SQ - I can't hear any difference in rolling PY500s. RCA / Telefunken / Ei - all are utterly transparent to my ears.
  
 Reliability might become an issue. Only time will tell.
  
 The nice thing about PY500s is that, even if all 20 of my Langrex PY500s turn out to be rubbish - which I definitely don't think they are - then it isn't a big loss anyway. Try losing a TA300B, as I did yesterday, that makes you wince a little 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For those interested in tube company history (yes, I am that nerdy) here is a post from a forum about this company. LINK.
  
_"Ei RC" operates as a subsidiary of Elektronska Industrija (Ei) Holding Corporation, Niš, Yugoslavia. The factory has been founded in 1951 using Telefunken technology. In 1959 Philips technology had been adapted and production was mainly devoted to the radio and TV tubes. There were 126 tybe types (NOVAL, OCTAL, MAGNOVAL) in production with overall capacity of 12 millions pcs/yr. In the mid eighties this production programme has been abandoned due to the technological obsolence and lack of the market. The factory has been specialized for production of audio tubes and is well-known by its high quality products. During the war and UN embargo against Yugoslavia (1992.-2000.) the factory has been passed trough a very difficult period. However, in spite of rumors spreaded over, hereby we claim that we are not destroyed in the NATO bombing during the war in 1999. Moreover, we are very alive and ready to serve our customers' needs."_
  
_Unfortunately, the last update of the website was in 2003, ten years ago, so who knows what's really going on._
  
 EDIT - some additional information that might be of interest (from the thread linked above):
  
_I've done some research on the internet and this is a summary of what I've learned about Elektronska Industrija or better known as EI of Yugoslavia. Contrary to popular belief, from some tube sellers (to increase prices) the EI factory was not destroyed in the war. If you do a Google search on EI Yugoslavia and page through the search results, you will find you'll find EI's outdated web site from April 2002 that states the factory was not destroyed in the Yugoslavia war (which was primarily between 1991 and 1995). EI produced tubes well after the war was over and this is a commonly known fact, as many popular online tube vendors sold these newer after war EI tubes. Current production of EI Vacuum tubes stopped many years ago and it will not resume. The primary difference after the war, was the quality of the tubes suffered greatly due to many factors such as shortages of quality materials and employee turnover which impacted quality control. There was also a UN embargo in place during this time which didn't help matters either. Quality issue, during and after the war are well documented on audio web site discussion boards.
 The actual EI factory building was sold around 2005-07 and the new owners of the building had no interest in vacuum tubes, so production will not resume in that building.

 The most recent information on EI is that Western Electric did in fact attempt to purchase the tooling from the old EI plant back in 2006-07. It was reported (even by Western Electric) that they thought it was a done deal. Some industry insiders that I know, who have direct contact with employees at Western Electric were able to confirmed the transaction never went through however, due to a number of obstacles. So, it appears the old EI equipment is sitting in storage off site at a location close to the old factory. Hopefully, the new government will allow the equipment to be purchased by a tube manufacturer in the future and allow the equipment to leave the country, but right now it's sitting idle in storage._
  
 Rather sad ending, really.


----------



## 2359glenn

I wouldn't worry about getting these here they are for $3 each.
 Mostly you get RCA and GE I have a bunch and have found no failures.
 Why pay extra for Mullard and Telefunken if there is no difference in sound just to get the name on them? Especially if there are failures with them.
  
 http://www.esrcvacuumtubes.com/vacuumtubes_tubelist_tubes_13CW4-90c1.html


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I wouldn't worry about getting these here they are for $3 each.
> Mostly you get RCA and GE I have a bunch and have found no failures.
> Why pay extra for Mullard and Telefunken if there is no difference in sound just to get the name on them? Especially if there are failures with them


 
 +1
  
 I have not heard a difference in the sound either.


----------



## Khragon

Thanks for the link Glenn. I'll get a couple set from them. It so nice to start out with overqualified cheap rectifiers. My wallet is thanking me


----------



## dminches

tonynewman said:


> Try losing a TA300B, as I did yesterday, that makes you wince a little




Whoa. What happened? Was this one of your new black base TA 300Bs?


----------



## TonyNewman

dminches said:


> Whoa. What happened? Was this one of your new black base TA 300Bs?


 

 No - an older second hand one. My new set have started burn in. One of the TA300Bs developed a loud intermittent buzz and sounded quite bad. KIA TA300B


----------



## Khragon

That's sad to hear, they're expensive! I am guessing you are planning to buy the newer ta300b? This wouldn't be a bad reason to


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> That's sad to hear, they're expensive! I am guessing you are planning to buy the newer ta300b? This wouldn't be a bad reason to


 
  
 Already put my order in with Price Japan


----------



## Silent One

@ TonyNewman hooking with 2359glenn...


----------



## TonyNewman

silent one said:


> @ TonyNewman hooking with 2359glenn...


 
  
 You know the saying - "_once you go crusty, there is no going back..._"


----------



## Khragon

Here's another PY500 seller, this one claimed to have large quantities available.  $3 each, Edicron branded.
 https://www.surplussales.com/Tubes-Sock-Acc/A-Z/TubesListed_n-z.html


----------



## TonyNewman

Boxed up my WA5 this afternoon and put in the space under the stairs. Won't be needing that again unless something deeply catastrophic happens. Glenn 300B amp destroys it. Totally.
  
 Even with a fresh set of Taks with about 10 hours on them the sound is superb (if a little closed and slightly scratchy with such young tubes). The Taks will only improve (markedly) over the next 300 hours of use.
  
 Popped in my well used pair of SERPs earlier today. That was magical. Some of the vocals damn near left me in a jelly-like state. This is what tubes are all about for me - give me those juicy, velvety mids. Highs and bass are also important, and rendered superbly by this rig, but give me those vocals. Yummy.
  
 I want to have my cake and eat it too now. I want to listen to what the SERPs can deliver right now, but also want to burn in the Taks because I know they will take the sound to another level once past the 300 hour mark. A first world luxury problem if ever there was one.
  
 I feel very fortunate to have such a great amp, and great tubes to put in it, and great headphones to listen to the sound with. Life is good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I know the term 'end game' gets used and abused quite a bit on HeadFi, but for me this is IT. My end of the line tube amp.
  
 For those on the fence about going for a Glenn 300B I can only recommend it. I was running a WA5 with something close to the best tubeset you can get (TA300B / TA274B / TS RP). The Glenn 300B blows it away.
  
 Now I need to talk to Glenn some more about an 845 version of this amp...


----------



## punit

Tony, How is the pairing with HE 6 ?


----------



## TonyNewman

It drives them very well. I will to do some A/B testing with my speaker tap rig in the coming days and see how they compare. I have to be careful right now as the Taks are so fresh that that can impact any testing. Might do that with the SERPs installed.
  
 I was only half joking when I spoke about an 845 version of this amp. I have kicked the idea around a little with Glenn in PM. The PY500s have ample capacity for 845s, but the driver system would need to change. I was thinking C3Gs driving 2A3s driving 845s. Lots of possibilities there. 20W of class A audio goodness would be ample even for the beastly HE6. But this is getting a little bit excessive - I can't see much apart from the HE6 and perhaps something like the Abyss (which I will never own) benefiting from that sort of juice. Overkill, but my audio OCD nerdism likes the thought.
  
 I think there was someone making custom 845 electrostatic amps. Never heard of anyone doing a custom 845 dynamic/planar amp. Would make for a heck of an amp. I love the 845 tube. Hmmmm.
  
 EDIT - Frank Cooter is the gentleman involved with the 845 electrostatic amps. They look very impressive:
  





 
  
  
 EDIT 2 - plugged in my modded HE6 for another spin. I am getting excellent bass punch and slam. Perhaps not quite as good as my power amp can deliver (with 10+ times the wattage behind it), but still very good. And you get that tube goodness (which is a slightly rough at the moment with such young tubes).


----------



## punit

tonynewman said:


> It drives them very well. I will to do some A/B testing with my speaker tap rig in the coming days and see how they compare. I have to be careful right now as the Taks are so fresh that that can impact any testing. Might do that with the SERPs installed.
> 
> 
> EDIT 2 - plugged in my modded HE6 for another spin. I am getting excellent bass punch and slam. Perhaps not quite as good as my power amp can deliver (with 10+ times the wattage behind it), but still very good. And you get that tube goodness (which is a slightly rough at the moment with such young tubes).


 
 Thanks Tony. Would you say the Glenn 300B is on par with WA5 for HE 6 ?


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> Boxed up my WA5 this afternoon and put in the space under the stairs. Won't be needing that again unless something deeply catastrophic happens. Glenn 300B amp destroys it. Totally.
> 
> Even with a fresh set of Taks with about 10 hours on them the sound is superb (if a little closed and slightly scratchy with such young tubes). The Taks will only improve (markedly) over the next 300 hours of use.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Boxed up already? I thought you and Badas will do a WA5 vs. Glenn 300B shoot out.  You could use the WA5 to burn in your TA300B 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Good to hear the SERPs sound good, I always like the SERPs strong bass sound signature.  I got a set here that jumping in side their box after learning Glenn started my build .


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:
			
		

> Now I need to talk to Glenn some more about an 845 version of this amp...


 
 845 for headphones Tony you are crazy!!!!!
 I will have to get a price on Lundahl transformers for this beast.


----------



## whirlwind

tonynewman said:


> Boxed up my WA5 this afternoon and put in the space under the stairs. Won't be needing that again unless something deeply catastrophic happens. Glenn 300B amp destroys it. Totally.
> 
> Even with a fresh set of Taks with about 10 hours on them the sound is superb (if a little closed and slightly scratchy with such young tubes). The Taks will only improve (markedly) over the next 300 hours of use.
> 
> ...


 
 Tony, I know exactly how you feel , when you say you feel so fortunate to own that amp.
  
 Every morning when I fire up my OTL amp....the same thing goes through my mind....I feel so fortunate to own an amp made by Glenn


----------



## 2359glenn

I just ordered more C3gs I worry about these great tubes becoming unobtainable
 Want to change my preamp to a C3g design. Think it will sound as good as my 26 pre
 with less noise and higher gain.


----------



## whirlwind

What kind did you get, Glenn.
  
 gibosi told me he liked the Lorenz C3g also.
  
 I have the shiny Siemens, and they sound beautiful.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > Boxed up my WA5 this afternoon and put in the space under the stairs. Won't be needing that again unless something deeply catastrophic happens. Glenn 300B amp destroys it. Totally.
> ...


 
  


tonynewman said:


> Even with a fresh set of Taks with about 10 hours on them the sound is superb (if a little closed and slightly scratchy with such young tubes). The Taks will only improve (markedly) over the next 300 hours of use.
> 
> I want to have my cake and eat it too now. I want to listen to what the SERPs can deliver right now, but also want to burn in the Taks because I know they will take the sound to another level once past the 300 hour mark. A first world luxury problem if ever there was one.


 
 Tony
 Hook it to a FM tuner if you have one and leave it on 24/7 to burn in the TAKs.   There is no hour limit the amp can be left on
 I had the amp on 24/7 for a week before I shipped it don't really know if anything in the amp really needs burning in maybe the electrolytic capacitors.
 Just was testing it before I shipped it that far.
 I use a FM tuner as not to run digital equipment like that. But that will burn in the TAKs quickly.


----------



## Khragon

Glenn,

Where did you buy the c3g from? I was looking around to get couple more pairs too. Look like they are around $50 each for Siemens branded one.


----------



## Ultrainferno

A few months ago my dealer still had hundreds of C3Gs, now they're all gone. Seems like some company bought them all up...


----------



## Khragon

That's sucks, don't like it when company do that.


----------



## 2359glenn

Probably W** they did that with the 596 bought them all then sold them for a ridicules high price.
 That is why I am stocking up.
 I got them on E-Bay they were like $50 each from Italy.


----------



## 2359glenn

Now that you mentioned it I am going to buy more.
 There is always Jac music but they are expensive.


----------



## TonyNewman

punit said:


> Thanks Tony. Would you say the Glenn 300B is on par with WA5 for HE 6 ?


 
  
 My gut reaction would be to say that _nothing about the WA5 is on a par with the Glenn 300B_, but that would be a little bit unfair.
  
 WA5 does have more warmth. It is definitely more coloured in its presentation of the music and that can be a good thing. In every other area I can think of the Glenn amp kills it, whichever headphone I am using (HE6 / HD800 / Ether C).


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> ...You could use the WA5 to burn in your TA300B
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Seriously - I will never put a Tak, or any other high end 300B, into an amp that doesn't have voltage regulation on the power tubes ever again. There is a reason why Elrog tubes get wrecked in Woo amps, and it isn't all Elrog's fault. The Taks have a rep for being much more robust, but it isn't something I am going to do again.


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> What kind did you get, Glenn.
> 
> gibosi told me he liked the Lorenz C3g also.
> 
> I have the shiny Siemens, and they sound beautiful.


 
  
 Unless you can get very early production Lorenz they are the same tube. Siemens were re-branded as Lorenz and Telefunken. I have stripped the covers off them and the internals are absolutely identical. Same tube.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> Seriously - I will never put a Tak, or any other high end 300B, into an amp that doesn't have voltage regulation on the power tubes ever again. There is a reason why Elrog tubes get wrecked in Woo amps, and it isn't all Elrog's fault. The Taks have a rep for being much more robust, but it isn't something I am going to do again.


 
 +1. bad design on Woo part.
  


tonynewman said:


> Unless you can get very early production Lorenz they are the same tube. Siemens were re-branded as Lorenz and Telefunken. I have stripped the covers off them and the internals are absolutely identical. Same tube.


 
 That's good to know, we can just get Siemens to save some money.  I regretted selling my early production Lorenz with the WA5.  I can't find them now.  Live and learn I guess.


----------



## jhljhl

+1  Jac music sells various c3gs.


----------



## gibosi

The early production C3g are easily recognized by their embossed flat-black cans. I have a couple pairs of early Siemens and Lorenz as well as the later shiny-black Siemens (manufactured in the 1970's). The earlier and later Siemens are very close in sound, but still slightly different as one would expect given the that they were manufactured at least a decade apart. On the other hand, the early Lorenz is quite different, more laid back compared to the more forward sound of the Siemens. And while I don't have a pair, I strongly suspect that the sound of the older embossed flat-black Telefunkens will also differ significantly.
  
 Some pictures are here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/12120#post_11992809


----------



## TonyNewman

gibosi said:


> The early production C3g are easily recognized by their embossed flat-black cans. I have a couple pairs of early Siemens and Lorenz as well as the later shiny-black Siemens (manufactured in the 1970's). The earlier and later Siemens are very close in sound, but still slightly different as one would expect given the that they were manufactured at least a decade apart. On the other hand, the early Lorenz is quite different, more laid back compared to the more forward sound of the Siemens. And while I don't have a pair, I strongly suspect that the sound of the older embossed flat-black Telefunkens will also differ significantly.
> 
> Some pictures are here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/12120#post_11992809


 
  
 Thank you - good to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I think I have some of the older embossed tubes around somewhere. Will give them a try and see if I can hear a difference (after Tak burn in is complete)..


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> 845 for headphones Tony you are crazy!!!!!
> I will have to get a price on Lundahl transformers for this beast.


 
  
 Bit of a mind fantasy - a custom 845 headphone amp. Necessary? No. Sensible? No. Mildly deranged? Yes. Do I want one? Yes. Call me nuts.
  
 Is a driver chain C3G -> (KT88 or 2A3) -> 845 sensible? I think we kicked around the idea of KT88 vs 2A3 as the intermediate driver a little.
  
 No rush to consider this at all. Just a mind game at the moment, but it is an intriguing idea.


----------



## Khragon

Haha 845 amp, my room is always colder than the rest of the house, I think I will need this 845 amp to help with the heat.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Haha 845 amp, my room is always colder than the rest of the house, I think I will need this 845 amp to help with the heat.


 
  
 It is summer in my part of the world and I am feeling the heat from the 300B amp. An 845 amp would be a 'winter only' option unless you have air conditioning.
  
 I have owned an 845 SET power amp - 200W of heat continuously. It's like having a BBQ in your room.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Just booked tickets for my wife and I to go see Clayton (&Steven) in San Francisco. Are there any Audio companies located there as well?


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> Just booked tickets for my wife and I to go see Clayton (&Steven) in San Francisco. Are there any Audio companies located there as well?


 

 Cool L have a great time .
 I just booked to Athens see Stavros in July


----------



## parbaked

ultrainferno said:


> Just booked tickets for my wife and I to go see Clayton (&Steven) in San Francisco. Are there any Audio companies located there as well?


 

 That's great news! I look forward to that!
  
 I can't think of anyone making gear in the Bay Area. That industry is more LA.
 There's a store near Clayton's that has a high end headphone section to browse: http://audiovisionsf.com/?page=headphones
 They just moved to a new location when thieves drove a truck through their front door: 
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/devastating-audio-rip-offs-california#FRDjtFqdSPTGt1mk.97


2359glenn said:


> I just booked to Athens see Stavros in July


 
 Nice...cheese pies and Mom's cooking!
 I'm sure Stavros will be thrilled to see you guys.
  
 BTW, the new amps look fantastic!!


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> The early production C3g are easily recognized by their embossed flat-black cans. I have a couple pairs of early Siemens and Lorenz as well as the later shiny-black Siemens (manufactured in the 1970's). The earlier and later Siemens are very close in sound, but still slightly different as one would expect given the that they were manufactured at least a decade apart. On the other hand, the early Lorenz is quite different, more laid back compared to the more forward sound of the Siemens. And while I don't have a pair, I strongly suspect that the sound of the older embossed flat-black Telefunkens will also differ significantly.
> 
> Some pictures are here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/12120#post_11992809


 
 Does your otl have the 5998 switch?


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> Does your otl have the 5998 switch?


 
  
 Yes it does. However, in the past I have found that with the standard transformer, there is a bit more noise than I like, so I do not use it. That said, I have recently modded my HD700s so I think I should try the switch one more time...


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Just booked tickets for my wife and I to go see Clayton (&Steven) in San Francisco. Are there any Audio companies located there as well?



I am looking forward to seeing you and your wife again. You've shown me around your country twice, now it's my turn to return the favors. And you just might get to hear Glenn's 300B mono blocks through Zu Omen speakers, too.


----------



## TonyNewman

clayton sf said:


> I am looking forward to seeing you and your wife again. You've shown me around your country twice, now it's my turn to return the favors. And you just might get to hear Glenn's 300B mono blocks through Zu Omen speakers, too.


 
  
 Any pics of the Glenn 300B monoblocs floating about... ?


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> Yes it does. However, in the past I have found that with the standard transformer, there is a bit more noise than I like, so I do not use it. That said, I have recently modded my HD700s so I think I should try the switch one more time...


 

 I guess you'd recommend the Lundahl transformers?  Can you use 5998 without using the switch? How's it with the c3gs?


----------



## TonyNewman

I have a few pairs of older Lorenz with the embossed tops. Put those in (nekkid of course). Small increase in warmth perhaps - subtle impact to my ears. Have to roll some more with the recent Siemens and A/B to be sure.
  
 Internals are indeed different to the more 'modern' tubes.
  
 Some pics:
  

  
 "old" Lorenz close up.
  

  
 "new" Siemens close up (same as "new" Telefunken / Lorenz):


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> I guess you'd recommend the Lundahl transformers?  Can you use 5998 without using the switch? How's it with the c3gs?


 
  

  
 The 5998 are indeed quieter without the switch, but to my ears, the GEC 6AS7 are so much better with the C3g that I never bothered with them.
  
 Just rolled in 5998's, switch on, and "old" Siemens C3g. Interestingly, while the ground hum is still there, it no longer gets in the way with my modded HD700's. Stock, these headphones have a rather nasty spike around 5 -6 Khz, and from what I am hearing now, it appears that that was accentuating some of the upper harmonics of the 60 Hz hum. Now, the hum is more subdued and much easier to ignore. As I have five pairs of 5998 that have been stored away in a closet on the "Not good enough" shelf, I am quite pleased to say the least. All this time it was the earphones that made them unlistenable! lol 
  
 However, in my opinion, if you expect to give the 5998 / C3g combo a lot of ear-time, I still think that the Lundahl transformers are the way to go. In my case, the Mullard ECC31 has been my main driver for some time now and to my ears it is exquisite with the GEC 6AS7s.
  
 But now that the 5998's are listenable, I think I should give them another chance....


----------



## Clayton SF

tonynewman said:


> Any pics of the Glenn 300B monoblocs floating about... ?


 
  
 Ah yes.
 The preamp is the Eddie Currant Zana Deux SE.
 Glenn's mono blocks are using the Type 81 half-wave rectifiers (second tube from the left of each mono block):

  
 Glenn's amp using the UX-281 half-wave rectifiers in each mono block:

  
 A rare and unusually bright tube on one of the mono blocks—the UX-216-B half-wave rectifier. I could only get one of them but these tubes do not affect the sound at all so the other unit has the UX-216:

  
 Another view of the UX-216-B half-wave rectifier:


----------



## Eee Pee

Mmmm, bright light.


----------



## TonyNewman

Great pics - thanks for sharing.


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > Any pics of the Glenn 300B monoblocs floating about... ?
> ...


 

 The UX216-b the predecessor to the 81. it has a thorated tungsten filament.
 lights up bright that is normal.


----------



## whirlwind

As always, great pics, Clayton.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hay Clayton
 I just got you another UX216 so you can have the coolosity of them in both of your amps.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Hay Clayton
> I just got you another UX216 so you can have the coolosity of them in both of your amps.


 
  
 Thank you, Glenn! I ordered one a year ago and it arrive defective so this is great news! Your Coolosity Amp just got cooler!


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Hay Clayton
> ...


 

 I will ship it to you as soon as I get it.


----------



## Khragon

All you need now is a pair of Elrog 300B to complete your thoriated lightning display.


----------



## 2359glenn

In my amps I have a UX210 driving the 300Bs They look the same as the UX216 but are a triode and have
 the same filament and plate.  Amplifiers in the 1920s used the UX216 rectifier UX210 output and UX226 driver.
 This combination has great sound today even though the 210 only puts out 1.5 to 2 watts
 With the Elrogs in my amps I could read a newspaper by the light.


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Cool L have a great time .
> I just booked to Athens see Stavros in July


 
  
 That's really nice Glenn. Tickets are getting really expensive aren't they? How long is the flight?
  


parbaked said:


> That's great news! I look forward to that!
> 
> I can't think of anyone making gear in the Bay Area. That industry is more LA.
> There's a store near Clayton's that has a high end headphone section to browse: http://audiovisionsf.com/?page=headphones
> ...


 
  
 I will have to stop by that shop. I look forward to catching a beer and pizza with you guys
  


clayton sf said:


> I am looking forward to seeing you and your wife again. You've shown me around your country twice, now it's my turn to return the favors. And you just might get to hear Glenn's 300B mono blocks through Zu Omen speakers, too.


 
  
 Finally I get to listen to the Zu!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

tonynewman said:


> Bit of a mind fantasy - a custom 845 headphone amp. Necessary? No. Sensible? No. Mildly deranged? Yes. Do I want one? Yes. Call me nuts.
> 
> Is a driver chain C3G -> (KT88 or 2A3) -> 845 sensible? I think we kicked around the idea of KT88 vs 2A3 as the intermediate driver a little.
> 
> No rush to consider this at all. Just a mind game at the moment, but it is an intriguing idea.


 
  
 C3g can't drive the 845 directly?  It pushes 1.5W on its own and has good V swing if I recall.
  
 I know you didn't ask for my opinion, but since I happened to be reading I might as well chime in. 
  
 I think you wouldn't be gaining anything over the amp you just got with such a setup.  Having 3 amplification stages introduces a lot of additional parts to the circuit that will affect the amp's ability resolve low level detail.  The additional gain stage adds more distortion (which gets amplified again by the stages down the chain), you have two sets of coupling caps (or interstage transformers), and a more complicated power supply design.  It would probably have beautiful tone but actually be a little less transparent and resolving than the 300B is now.  Then again 845s are thoriated tungsten tubes............ they're pretty special.
  
 I would love to see Glenn go the other direction actually and do a single stage amp.  A pair of EML 30As and an appropriate set of transformers and rectifier would be the king of detail retrieval due to the simple circuit path and still be a DHT amp with all the tone colors that implies.  It would have limited flexibility in terms of gain and Vswing but nothing that would get in the way I would think.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> C3g can't drive the 845 directly?  It pushes 1.5W on its own and has good V swing if I recall.
> 
> I know you didn't ask for my opinion, but since I happened to be reading I might as well chime in.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your input - happy to have it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It's just a mental exercise at the moment, but I would like to get Glenn's input on driving an 845 directly from a C3G (or multiple C3Gs in parallel - is that even possible?).
  
 I had a power amp in the past (before I wrecked it) that used 6SN7 -> 2A3 -> 845. The sound was lacking in dynamics and bite for the reasons that you gave. If there was a way to drive an 845 directly from C3Gs that would be nice. Or perhaps the higher rated version of the C3G - C3M? I forget the exact tube. An approach like that would be ideal.
  
 Glenn - any comments on this?


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Cool L have a great time .
> ...


 

 My flight is 10hrs from Philadelphia to Athens and 2hrs to get to Philadelphia with a 2hr layover.
 Your amp will sound the same into the Zu same circuit same output transformers.


----------



## Eee Pee

So we get some food pictures soon then?


----------



## Neogeo333

2359glenn said:


> In my amps I have a UX210 driving the 300Bs They look the same as the UX216 but are a triode and have
> the same filament and plate.  Amplifiers in the 1920s used the UX216 rectifier UX210 output and UX226 driver.
> This combination has great sound today even though the 210 only puts out 1.5 to 2 watts
> With the Elrogs in my amps I could read a newspaper by the light.


 
 It all depends on the speakers your trying to drive.  I recently got a 100W class a amp from the land of the rising sun.  Sucker is heavy as hell.  It has a digital display meter and while playing different 
 kind of music I have never seen the meter move north of 1.7W.  The speakers were 96db so that helps.  
  
 Thats the combo I want to use for my future 45 amp but replace the UX216 with rgn1064.  Im a sucker for mesh plates.


----------



## TonyNewman

Had my new amp running pretty much flat out for a week now. It is maturing nicely and the fresh Taks are starting to open up. Result is excellent. Really, really pleased with this amp. Well worth the wait.
  
 Anyone sitting on the fence on getting a Glenn 300B - do it. You need it like you need oxygen.
  
 It is kinda like someone took my Taurus Mk2 or 430HA and melded it with the TA300Bs. Solid state performance combined with tube goodness of the TA300B. Extremely nipplehardening.


----------



## whirlwind

Tony, I have told many people that it is very much worth the wait to get an amp from, Glenn.
  
 Just listen to your other gear and enjoy your music, and when your amp gets done, it gets done.....then when you receive it.....just push your other gear to the side and enjoy  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 When you swap out 300b tubes....post some pics


----------



## TonyNewman

Totally agree, but some folks want instant satisfaction. Custom builds don't work like that.
  
 Probably be a while before I swap out any 300Bs. Perhaps if I get some Elrogs next year, otherwise the Taks are hard to beat.
  
 I have pair of the 'new model' TA300Bs on backorder with Price Japan. Might be a while before those show up.


----------



## Khragon

I started talking to Glenn back in May. The wait isn't bad at all, during that time it give me more time to think about what I want in the amp. Glenn is always helpful, I learned a lot bouncing ideas back and forth with him.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> I started talking to Glenn back in May. The wait isn't bad at all, during that time it give me more time to think about what I want in the amp. Glenn is always helpful, I learned a lot bouncing ideas back and forth with him.


 
  
 +1. We kicked around a few ideas. Some dumb ideas from me and some good ones from Glenn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ended up upgrading the coupling caps to Duelunds and going for the 47 step attenuator and putting in both styles of output jacks and the voltage regulation on the power tubes. I think the last 2 items are going to be standard for 300B amps going forward(?).
  
 Anyway - kicking this around with Glenn was very helpful and we ended up with a better result (I think). I also got to learn a lot along the way and have a few laughs.


----------



## TonyNewman

I have clocked over 100 hours on the amp and the fresh Taks. Sound has matured significantly, so I ran some of my favorite test tracks again. Some thoughts.
  
 Deep bass - something tube rigs sometimes have trouble with - reproduced with punch and control. Brilliant. Damn close to SS. That is quite special for a tube system to do. Pair a great amp with great tubes and good stuff happens.
  
 Mids / Vocals - exactly what you expect a tube rig to excel at and it does. Oh my lord - sweet, sweet vocals. Norah Jones - one of the most intimate sounding and gonad enlarging vocal performers that there is. "Come away with me" - rendered just so very well. Another classic for female vocals - The Pretenders "Hymn to Her" - SS just can't do it like this. Lovely stuff. Yummy. This is what tubes are all about for me.
  
 Treble - sweet, controlled, brilliant. Enough said.
  
 Detail - plenty. Scary close to my SS rigs (Taurus Mk2 / 430HA). Using the HD800 every pop and crackle in my less than perfect recordings is "right there" - just as it is in my SS rigs. My plankton fetish is satisfied.
  
 If you have a Glenn 300B amp I can't recommend the TA300B too highly. This tube can do pretty much everything. Detail, extension up and down, sweet mids, juicy vocals. Pricey, but you get real value from it (IMHO).


----------



## Khragon

Really? TA300B? Why can't you recommend some thing that I already owned.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Really? TA300B? Why can't you recommend some thing that I already owned.


 
  
 SERPs are good. Very fine tube. A little dark in tonality - sometimes that can be a good thing. Have you got those? Doesn't have quite the same mid-range magic as the TA300B, but a very nice tube I could easily live with. Really good bass extension on these babies. If it wasn't for the Taks I would be running these 90% of the time.
  
 Also have the PSvane WE300B replica and EATs. Yet to try these in the Glenn amp. Decent tubes when I used them in the WA5. For neutrality, extension and detail the EATs are hard to beat - superb for classical or orchestral. PSvane WE300B replica were quite good for me also. Nice mids, but a little lacking low down and up top.
  
 The regular Sophia Princess 300B surprised me for being quite OK for the price. Not bad value and a pleasant sounding tube to my ears.
  
 None of these have the combination of mid range magic + extension top and bottom that the TA300B has. The Takatsuki is the only 300B tube I know (or know of) that does it all. That's why I rave about them so much. I just can't fault them on anything except price. They are %$(@*#$& expensive beasties.
  
 My first set of Taks was a second hand purchase that I was lucky to pick up for quite a good price - it still hurt when one of them failed. The Taks have a rep for a 10,000+ hour lifespan. I was fortunate to have a fresh set available to put in the new amp (backups - the nice side of being a little bit OCD).
  
 Yet to try the Elrogs. Glenn has used Elrogs in this amp during testing and loved that setup. I am told that these tubes have a sound all their own. Keen to try them, but have been put off by some reliability issues around Elrog tubes.
  
 My Glenn 300B amp has voltage regulation on the power tubes. I would think long and hard about putting an Elrog into any amp that doesn't have this feature (like the WA5 / WA234). My view (and it is just an opinion) is that the lack of voltage regulation on the power tubes has contributed to the Elrog failure rate.
  
 Anyone else have some 300B tube experiences in the Glenn amp that they would like to share? I would very much like to hear them


----------



## gibosi

Glenn, if I wanted to run a pair of EL3N through the C3g sockets on my OTL, would that make sense?


----------



## 3083joe

Going. To purchase a ta-274 and see what all the fuss is about. Then I can be ready to get ta-300b when I get my Glenn amp


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Going. To purchase a ta-274 and see what all the fuss is about. Then I can be ready to get ta-300b when I get my Glenn amp


 
  
 It's an excellent rectifier, but becomes a bit redundant once you get a Glenn amp that uses PY500s (assuming you will do that). I have one sitting in my WA6, which is a waste.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> It's an excellent rectifier, but becomes a bit redundant once you get a Glenn amp that uses PY500s (assuming you will do that). I have one sitting in my WA6, which is a waste.



Yeah. 
Makes sense.


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> Just booked tickets for my wife and I to go see Clayton (&Steven) in San Francisco. Are there any Audio companies located there as well?


 
 Head across the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge. There's a small community that lies just a few minutes northwest of Berkeley, California named El Cerrito. Here, you will find Berkeley Audio Designs:
  
 www.berkeleyaudiodesign.com/company


----------



## Ultrainferno

silent one said:


> Head across the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge. There's a small community that lies just a few minutes northwest of Berkeley, California named El Cerrito. Here, you will find Berkeley Audio Designs:
> 
> www.berkeleyaudiodesign.com/company


 
  
 Not that familiar with them tbh. Come see us for a beer!


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Head across the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge. There's a small community that lies just a few minutes northwest of Berkeley, California named El Cerrito. Here, you will find Berkeley Audio Designs:


 
  I forgot about Berkeley Audio Designs.
 I also forgot Magico in Hayward: http://www.magico.net
 That would worth a visit....S1 in Shindo green!
 Quote:


ultrainferno said:


> Not that familiar with them tbh. Come see us for a beer!


 
 That's a good idea!
 SO...come up for a beer or bubbly.
 We can take Mr & Mrs Ultra out for sweet potato pie...


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Glenn, if I wanted to run a pair of EL3N through the C3g sockets on my OTL, would that make sense?


 

 That would work but were would you Will have to find Loctal tube bases to make adapters good luck. Maybe someone in China will make the adapter
 Also you can get one of the block adapters from china maybe. Have to hook 2 them in triode
 And plug into the 6SN7 socket


----------



## whirlwind

I rolled in my 6336 tubes last night, to give my Grado's a spin on Glenns OTL.
  
 Holy crap  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My 225i sound unbelievable with these tubes!
  
 I never would have dreamed this, plenty of current to make these cans sound like this...I am very impressed .
  
 These tubes are great in Glenns amp, I am running them in 5998 mode....will this provide more current than in 6AS7 mode , Glenn ?
  
 It is getting cold here in Ohio, and my listening station is a few degrees warmer with these tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I rolled in my 6336 tubes last night, to give my Grado's a spin on Glenns OTL.
> 
> Holy crap
> 
> ...


 
 Yes it will put out more current in the 5998 mode.
 Have you tried your HD-800s on the 6336? You can probably run the 800s in 5998 mode or the 6AS7 mode see what mode sounds best.


----------



## gibosi

"JoelT" has posted a very interesting and positive review of a Glenn OTL in comparison with a Ragnarok. I am not at liberty to provide a direct link here, but searching for "Glenn Studio Amplifiers" in Google should bring it up. You will find it on page 3.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Yes it will put out more current in the 5998 mode.
> Have you tried your HD-800s on the 6336? You can probably run the 800s in 5998 mode or the 6AS7 mode see what mode sounds best.


 
  
 Can a Cossor 53KU provide enough current to run 6336 in the 5998 mode?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes it will put out more current in the 5998 mode.
> ...


 

 Do you have the specs on the 53KU ??


----------



## gibosi

This is what some call a "fat GZ37". However, I have never seen one of these tubes labeled as a GZ37. I have a several with the following labels: 53KU, CV378 and GZ33. And I recently saw one on eBay labeled as a U54.
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cv378.html
  
 found another link:
  
 http://www.tubecollector.org/cv378.htm


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I rolled in my 6336 tubes last night, to give my Grado's a spin on Glenns OTL.
> ...


 
 Glenn, I have not yet tried my HD800 with the 6336 tubes, but I will.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


gibosi said:


> "JoelT" has posted a very interesting and positive review of a Glenn OTL in comparison with a Ragnarok. I am not at liberty to provide a direct link here, but searching for "Glenn Studio Amplifiers" in Google should bring it up. You will find it on page 3.


 
 Thanks for the heads up on the review...I enjoyed reading it.


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> I forgot about Berkeley Audio Designs.
> I also forgot Magico in Hayward: http://www.magico.net
> That would worth a visit....S1 in Shindo green!
> Quote:
> ...


 
 Absolutely! Well, if the timing and cash is right. 
 We absolutely grew up on and adore Sweet Potato Pie. And French bubbly!
  
 And with our mutual interests in audio, music, food, people, cycling and Japan, been looking forward to meeting you. 
  
 Funny but, I even worked 'The S.H.O.W.' in Newport Beach this year where Magico had a big presence and still forgot about 'em.


----------



## dminches

Long session tonight with Glenn's 300B (Tak 300Bs) and my LCD-3s.  I am glad there are a couple others who now know how good this sounds.  Pure music bliss.


----------



## TonyNewman

dminches said:


> Long session tonight with Glenn's 300B (Tak 300Bs) and my LCD-3s.  I am glad there are a couple others who now know how good this sounds.  Pure music bliss.


 
  
 My Wa5 doesn't come close to this. Bliss is the word.


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> "JoelT" has posted a very interesting and positive review of a Glenn OTL in comparison with a Ragnarok. I am not at liberty to provide a direct link here, but searching for "Glenn Studio Amplifiers" in Google should bring it up. You will find it on page 3.




I've read that and totally enjoyed it. I have the Rok and wondering how can Glenn's OTL can better it in terms of resolution. I have heard Punit's Glenn's OTL and was very impressed but not enough time to "dissect' SQ compared to my Rok. What I have noticed though is on my other cheap tube amp against Rok is what I call 'focus'. With the Rok, the sound of each instrument is there but not standin out. With my tube amp, most instruments are sort of more apparent and prominent. Perhaps this is what is happening with Glenn's amp also. In which, it is making me more excited to get one.


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> I've read that and totally enjoyed it. I have the Rok and wondering how can Glenn's OTL can better it in terms of resolution. I have heard Punit's Glenn's OTL and was very impressed but not enough time to "dissect' SQ compared to my Rok. What I have noticed though is on my other cheap tube amp against Rok is what I call 'focus'. With the Rok, the sound of each instrument is there but not standin out. With my tube amp, most instruments are sort of more apparent and prominent. Perhaps this is what is happening with Glenn's amp also. In which, it is making me more excited to get one.


 
  
 Makes me wonder what the reviewer would make of one of Glenn's amps using C3G drivers rather than the 6SN7 family, as used in the review. I have found the C3G significantly more transparent than any 6SN7 I have tried (including the TS RP 6F8g / 6C8G used in the review).


----------



## lukeap69

Mine will have the C3G driver. I will probably compare it to the OTL amp of Punit which ,if I am not mistaken, has the same config as that of JoelIT. That will be in few months time though since mine will be built after Khragon and Moatsgoat.


----------



## punit

2359glenn said:


> Yes it will put out more current in the 5998 mode.
> Have you tried your HD-800s on the 6336? You can probably run the 800s in 5998 mode or the 6AS7 mode see what mode sounds best.


 
 I like the HD 800 better with GEC 6AS7G , TS 5998, WE 421A , GEC 6080.


----------



## punit

gibosi said:


> "JoelT" has posted a very interesting and positive review of a Glenn OTL in comparison with a Ragnarok. I am not at liberty to provide a direct link here, but searching for "Glenn Studio Amplifiers" in Google should bring it up. You will find it on page 3.


 
 I stopped visiting that site. Not my kind of place.


----------



## lukeap69

punit said:


> I stopped visiting that site. Not my kind of place.




Can't blame you.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> This is what some call a "fat GZ37". However, I have never seen one of these tubes labeled as a GZ37. I have a several with the following labels: 53KU, CV378 and GZ33. And I recently saw one on eBay labeled as a U54.
> 
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cv378.html
> 
> ...


 

 It should be fine it can handle 250ma that makes it OK


----------



## raybone0566

That was a good review though, really looking forward to owning one of Glenn's amps. This will be my late X-mas gift.


----------



## Clayton SF

Wow! Rockin' with Glenn's mono blocks and the AE-3 DJH preamp with Glenn's 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters that I got in 2009.
 THANKS, Glenn!


----------



## Clayton SF

Prepping for Lieven's arrival in April 2016!
 Blowing-socks-off setup.


----------



## Ultrainferno

You do know I'm taking the Woo and Leben home with me, right?


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> You do know I'm taking the Woo and Leben home with me, right?


 

 And me along with the rest of the amp combo package.


----------



## whirlwind

I never get tired of looking at your pics, Clayton


----------



## JoelT

lukeap69 said:


> I've read that and totally enjoyed it. I have the Rok and wondering how can Glenn's OTL can better it in terms of resolution. I have heard Punit's Glenn's OTL and was very impressed but not enough time to "dissect' SQ compared to my Rok. What I have noticed though is on my other cheap tube amp against Rok is what I call 'focus'. With the Rok, the sound of each instrument is there but not standin out. With my tube amp, most instruments are sort of more apparent and prominent. Perhaps this is what is happening with Glenn's amp also. In which, it is making me more excited to get one.


 
 While it could certainly be related to a difference in tube presentation vs. solid state, the end result is still the same for me - that is to say, I'm hearing low level detail that I haven't heard with the Rag. However, they're obviously very different amps, with different design objectives and I think it's actually a complimentary pairing if you happen to own both. I'd also add that it may very well depend on the source you end up using. The OTL certainly rewards pairing with a resolving source and will scale up if you own something more mid-fi or entry level. The driver tube choice in particular seemed to impact the resolution as well. If the c3g amp is more transparent and resolving still (and is what you're going to go for), I suspect you'll be really happy with the end result. 
  


tonynewman said:


> Makes me wonder what the reviewer would make of one of Glenn's amps using C3G drivers rather than the 6SN7 family, as used in the review. I have found the C3G significantly more transparent than any 6SN7 I have tried (including the TS RP 6F8g / 6C8G used in the review).


 
 I've been on Glenn's list for some time now, but my magic number hasn't been drawn yet. If I were to order one custom built, I would certainly go for the c3g w/ the Lundahl transformer. That said, when I saw a used amp for sale I decided I'd just make the plunge and give it a try. I felt the build I have was still worth discussing, especially since it's price to performance ratio is so high.


----------



## lukeap69

Thanks JoelIT. It will be very exciting to compare my future OTL amp against my Rok, PIBE and Lyr 2. And I hope to compare it with Punit's myriad of TOTL amps!


----------



## TonyNewman

Spent a very pleasant Sunday afternoon putting my new Glenn 300B through its paces with my HeadFi buddy Badas (Donovan). Spent a few hours testing out the amp and doing some A/B with my solid state Taurus Mk2 and 430HA and general messing about with music and gear.
  
 I was glad to find that I wasn't off in my own little world and that we both agree what the Glenn 300B is doing.
  
 I am running Telefunken PY500 /C3G-S and Takatsuki 300Bs. The Taks have over 150 hours on them - I expect them to open up a little more and become a little smoother up to around 300 hours, but they are mostly past the rough and harsh early break-in stage. We were using a modded HD800 / modded HE6 / LCD-X / Ether C. All the music went via my Vega DAC running in exact mode (USB and SPDIF).
  
 The PY500 / C3G combination is utterly transparent. The 'tubiness' of the amp comes from the 300B. The Taks do a fine job indeed - extension / detail / rich mids - these tubes are 'all rounders', but come with a hefty price tag. Worth every cent in my opinion, but I am a Takatsuki fanboi. I am yet to try the Elrog.
  
 Detail - this is something that blew both of us away. My most transparent and detailed SS amp is the Taurus Mk2 (the 430HA is slightly colored in its presentation and not quite as transparent as the Taurus IMHO). Anyway, the Glenn 300B was ever so close to matching the level of detail presented by the Taurus, as in _'I can't freaken believe it'_ close. That is a staggering achievement for a tube amp. A good example - on some recordings made from tape you can sometimes pick up a slight background hiss from the tape itself. This is something that can sometimes be audible in quiet passages of the music on some tracks - a good SS amp with provide this level of detail. Neither of us had ever heard this via a tube amp - until the Glenn 300B. Amazing.
  
 Tubiness - the 300B has to do all the heavy lifting here. Fortunately, the Taks are up to the job. Smooth, sweet treble, rich mids, great bass. All there.
  
 Headphone matching - of all that we tried the modded HD800 stood out for both SQ and comfort. This headphone scales wonderfully with better gear and more POWER. In certain circumstances the HD800 can be a little bass light - not with this amp. Plenty of great bass and everything else. Magic combination.
  
 Overall - I am a very happy camper. This amp is delivering almost SS levels of detail and dynamics combined with the tube qualities that I crave. It really is like someone melded the TA300Bs into my Taurus - giving a sound that is very, very close to the best of both SS and tube.


----------



## Badas

Some photo's I took.
  
 Amazing amp. So much detail. The closest thing to SS and tubes having a date.


----------



## punit

tonynewman said:


> Headphone matching - of all that we tried the modded HD800 stood out for both SQ and comfort. This headphone scales wonderfully with better gear and more POWER. In certain circumstances the HD800 can be a little bass light - not with this amp. Plenty of great bass and everything else. Magic combination.


 
 Very Happy to hear HD800 plays quite well with it, It is still my reference HP.


----------



## Badas

punit said:


> Very Happy to hear HD800 plays quite well with it, It is still my reference HP.


 

 It was very clearly the best HP on this amp. I used the LCD-X for about 2 minutes and went straight back to the HD800. Ether was a close second. The HD800 had everything.


----------



## TonyNewman

Makes me wonder what extra things the HD800S can bring to the table.


----------



## Khragon

Sold my hd800 and got he1000. He1000 beats hd800 on all aspects imho. Will be looking at hd800s when it is out.


----------



## raybone0566

great pictures guys. Glenn you really make some beautiful amps


----------



## gibosi

tonynewman said:


> I am running Telefunken PY500 /C3G-S and Takatsuki 300Bs.


 
  
 I assume that the C3g/s are the ones with the shiny black cans? In terms of resolution do you notice any difference between these and the older Lorenz?


----------



## TonyNewman

gibosi said:


> I assume that the C3g/s are the ones with the shiny black cans? In terms of resolution do you notice any difference between these and the older Lorenz?


 
  
 The 'S' version has a transconductance value more than 10% over the spec for the C3G.
  
 They sell for a premium over the standard C3G. If there is a sonic difference between the regular C3G and the 'S' version then I can't hear it (YMMV).
  
 The older Lorenz have a rep for being a little more laid back and mellow than the more modern C3G (best I can tell, all the more recent stuff is made by Siemens and re-branded as Telefunken / Lorenz etc). I am yet to try rolling the older Lorenz tubes I have in the Glenn amp. The sound is so good with the modern Lorenz that I am kinda having trouble getting motivated to do it.
  
 The price differences can get a little crazy. For example:
 1) Telefunken C3G-S: 201.25 Euro
 2) Siemens C3G: 45.00 Euro
  
 These tubes are internally identical and I can't tell any difference between them SQ-wise. I save my cash and buy the standard Siemens.


----------



## gibosi

Yes, I would agree. To the best of my  knowledge, all shiny black C3g, regardless of branding, were manufactured by Siemens in the 1970s. And with regard to the shiny C3g and C3g/s, like you, I can't hear any difference (in my Glenn OTL), so I doubt that they are worth the premium some vendors are charging.
  
 However, I can hear tonal differences between these and the older embossed flat-black Lorenz (1966) and the older embossed flat-black Siemens (date unknown, but probably 1950's or 60's). That said, I don't notice any differences in resolution, but my antique ears and associated gear aren't all that good, so I am looking forward to your impressions regarding these older tubes in your 300B.


----------



## TonyNewman

gibosi said:


> ...
> 
> However, I can hear tonal differences between these and the older embossed flat-black Lorenz (1966) and the older embossed flat-black Siemens (date unknown, but probably 1950's or 60's). That said, I don't notice any differences in resolution, but my antique ears and associated gear aren't all that good, so I am looking forward to your impressions regarding these older tubes in your 300B.


 
  
 I will pull out my crusty old Lorenz tubes and give them a shot over the Xmas break. These are definitely not the same animals as the newer Siemens (I have stripped a pair and checked the internals). Will report back here once I have done some A/B on the Glenn 300B.


----------



## Ultrainferno

khragon said:


> Sold my hd800 and got he1000. He1000 beats hd800 on all aspects imho. Will be looking at hd800s when it is out.


 
  
 Really? I'm publishing my HE-1000 review tomorrow and I just can't conclude that the 1K beats the HD800. It's different but the HD800 still has it beat on layering, dynamics, detail and depth. I have to agree with Tyll on that one.
  
 But everyone's ears are different and the HE1000 is an awesome headphone. Enjoy!


----------



## TonyNewman

The longer I own my HD800 the more respect I have for it and the folks at Sennheiser who designed it. It scales like no other headphone I know. What I have found is that it really needs the mod to control some treble issues and this headphone really likes an abundance of power.
  
 Mod it and give it plenty of juice and this baby can sing. Comfort is a delight also.


----------



## lukeap69

Which mod have you done on your HD800 Tony?


----------



## TonyNewman

"Anaxilus Mod". I used adhesive foam rather than felt as that was what I had handy at the time. Works great.


----------



## whirlwind

tonynewman said:


> Makes me wonder what extra things the HD800S can bring to the table.


 
 Me too....my HD800 gets about 90% of my head time and I could live with this as my only headphone, if I had too


----------



## 2359glenn

I built the OTL for the HD650 and HD800s
 Then started trying 6336 tubes to drive low impedance cans being the power transformer I used was hefty enough to do this.
 And it worked out well.


----------



## dminches

My favorite headphone with Glenn's 300B is the LCD-3.  Perfect balance.


----------



## TonyNewman

dminches said:


> My favorite headphone with Glenn's 300B is the LCD-3.  Perfect balance.


 
  
 To each their own. The headphones I have tried (LCD-X, LCD-3C) have strangled treble to the point where they annoy me. Great bass and nice mids, but I couldn't deal with the treble.


----------



## dminches

tonynewman said:


> To each their own.


 
  
 I wasn't saying otherwise, just posting my preference.


----------



## TonyNewman

dminches said:


> I wasn't saying otherwise, just posting my preference.


 
  
 Hope I didn't come across as having a dig at you. I wasn't


----------



## dminches

We are all good.

I know from my experience with headphones that I gravitate to planars while many enjoy dynamic models such as the HD800. For whatever reason I find most dynamic headphones hot in the high frequencies. Others find models like the LCD-3s rolled off at the high end.

What type of music do you normally listen to?


----------



## TonyNewman

dminches said:


> We are all good.
> 
> I know from my experience with headphones that I gravitate to planars while many enjoy dynamic models such as the HD800. For whatever reason I find most dynamic headphones hot in the high frequencies. Others find models like the LCD-3s rolled off at the high end.
> 
> What type of music do you normally listen to?


 
  
 Lots of vocal centric stuff. Mostly from the 60s 70s 80s. Vocals and tubes go together like cheese and wine (or beer and burgers) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 More modern stuff like Melody Gardot ... etc that sort of thing.
  
 I find rolling off the treble in this sort of music kills it for me.
  
 And you?


----------



## dminches

tonynewman said:


> Lots of vocal centric stuff. Mostly from the 60s 70s 80s. Vocals and tubes go together like cheese and wine (or beer and burgers)
> 
> More modern stuff like Melody Gardot ... etc that sort of thing.
> 
> ...




I listen to a lot of bebop (Miles, Coltrane, Rollins, Adderley, Morgan), and guys like Oscar Peterson. And then more current stuff live Patricia Barber, etc.

I also listen to a lot of rock including the Dead, Garcia, Allmans, etc.

I am very sensitive to treble which is why I prefer planars. My speakers are Vandersteen model 7s which are also very neutral.

I agree that tubes and vocals are perfect together.


----------



## punit

dminches said:


> My speakers are Vandersteen model 7s which are also very neutral.


 
 Wow...What do you amp them with ?


----------



## dminches

punit said:


> Wow...What do you amp them with ?


 
  
 Pair of Ayre MX-Rs.  Great combo.


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn's monos with PrimaLuna DiaLogue 3 preamp -- Caged!
 Nice sound!


----------



## Rossliew

Primaluna make great amps!


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> To each their own. The headphones I have tried (LCD-X, LCD-3C) have strangled treble to the point where they annoy me. Great bass and nice mids, but I couldn't deal with the treble.


 
 I agree with you Tony. I really have tried to like the Audeze cans but I just can't. I have tried the LCD-2, LCD-3, LCD-X,LCD-XC, EL-8, EL-8C and the LCD-4. I got excited about the LCD-3 after the first pair I listened to before its launch at RMAF to the point I ordered them but the ones I received sounded totally different and dark. Returned those and got another pair with the same results and I gave up.
  
 I listened to the LCD-4 at RMAF and they are promising but by wallet shakes at $4K for those....
  
 I also still have my HD800 and love them. They are going no where.....


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> ... I also still have my HD800 and love them. They are going no where.....


 
  
 +1. Modded and well driven the HD800 is still an awesome headphone.
  
 The other factor for me is comfort. The HD800 is kinda like wearing nothing (almost) - that was never the case for me with the LCD-X.
  
 Have cracked 200 hours with the Glenn amp and the fresh Taks. This thing just gets better and better. I think this is mostly the Taks continuing to get a little more open and smoother. Wonderful 300Bs.


----------



## Clayton SF

I am still at work but tomorrow (24 Dec.) they're letting me go home at 3:00 PM. @parbaked has kindly invited me to spend Christmas eve and Christmas night with his family to help eat everything in sight—well almost everything!. Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it!
  
 This evening I'm thinking about swapping the Decware CSP3+ (Zen Triode OTL Preamp) for the Eddie Current Zana Deux SE. By the way, the CSP3+ has a much better sound stage than the PrimaLuna DiaLogue 3; at least with Glenn's monos.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> I am still at work but tomorrow (24 Dec.) they're letting me go home at 3:00 PM. @parbaked has kindly invited me to spend Christmas eve and Christmas night with his family to help eat everything in sight—well almost everything!. Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it!
> 
> This evening I'm thinking about swapping the Decware CSP3+ (Zen Triode OTL Preamp) for the Eddie Current Zana Deux SE. By the way, the CSP3+ has a much better sound stage than the PrimaLuna DiaLogue 3; at least with Glenn's monos.


 
 I enjoyed the newest version of the Zana at the July SF head-Fi meet. I think it would be a fun upgrade to the CSP3+ for you.
  
 Happy Holidays to everyone!!


----------



## Clayton SF

I cannot be stopped. This setup is nice. A bit warmer than the Decware CSP2+ and a cleaner top end.


----------



## whirlwind

Just beautiful, Clayton


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> I cannot be stopped. This setup is nice. A bit warmer than the Decware CSP2+ and a cleaner top end.


 
 WooHoo! ZD in the house!


----------



## whirlwind

longbowbbs said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > I cannot be stopped. This setup is nice. A bit warmer than the Decware CSP2+ and a cleaner top end.
> ...


 
 I wanna listen to it


----------



## 2359glenn

Merry Christmas everyone
   Glenn & Lucy


----------



## Khragon

Merry Christmas!


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Merry Christmas everyone
> Glenn & Lucy


 
  
 Merry Christmas, Glenn and Lucy!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Merry Christmas everyone
> Glenn & Lucy


 
  
 Merry Christmas, Glenn & Lucy
  
 I hope you guys have a wonderful holiday.


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Merry Christmas everyone
> ...


 

 Merry Christmas
  Clayton
  
 Your Christmas present UV216 was dead when I got it so I got my money back.
 I will continue looking
  
 Glenn


----------



## Neogeo333

Merry Christmas Glenn and all members here.
  
 Dont look too hard.


----------



## TonyNewman

neogeo333 said:


> Merry Christmas Glenn and all members here.
> 
> Dont look too hard.


 
  
 Nice bells.


----------



## punit

Merry Christmas everyone.


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> Don't look too hard.


 
 Thanks for bringing the Christmas spirit George!!

 Happy Days to all!!


----------



## lukeap69

Merry Christmas.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Merry Christmas Glenn and everyone!


----------



## longbowbbs

Merry Christmas to everyone! 
  
 Here's to a safe and gear filled 2016!


----------



## TonyNewman

Best Xmas wishes to all, wherever on the planet you might be.
  
 My own Xmas present continues to go from strength to strength. Have run the bugger fairly hard over the past few weeks and put 200+ hours on it. Tubes and amp are maturing nicely. A slight background hum on one channel is gone (caps burning in?). Tubes are sounding just wonderful - good bass, great treble and those lovely, luscious mids that the TA300B/WE300B type tubes are famous for.
  

  
 SERPs do a better job down low than the TA300B, but that is the only area where the TA300B isn't top dog. I have a set of the new 'improved' TA300Bs on order with Price Japan - I wonder if those tubes will have a bass improvement? Bass is the only area I might call a weakness for the TA300B (and it's bass isn't bad, just not as deep or tight as the SERPs, which have the best bass of any 300B I have tried).
  
 Strong recommendation on the upgrade option for the 47 step attenuator. Having those extra step really helps to adjust the volume to exactly where you want it. I listen at low to moderate volume (mostly) so 24 steps could have been a little crude for my needs. I think this applies particularly to the 8W output of the 300B amp. This attenuator works very well and has a nice 'feel' to it.


----------



## Clayton SF

I am enjoying Hot and Cool bottles with Glenn and Steven, remotely.
 Enjoy the weekend, everyone!


----------



## TonyNewman

Thought I would share a short story of user stupidity regarding my new Glenn 300B amp.
  
 I was doing some tube rolling around some of the older Lorenz C3g (the matt black embossed version). Anyway, I switched the amp off and then yanked the right channel C3G from the amp seconds later. You normally couldn't do this, as the C3g at full operating temp is a hot person, but these tubes had only been active for a few minutes. Don't ask me what I was thinking - I wasn't. Obviously the capacitors were still holding a significant charge - not good.
  
 The amp produced a loud BANG via the headphones which were still on my ears. That wasn't fun. At first I thought I had wrecked the amp, but had only wrecked my hearing for about an hour or so. Amp and tubes are fine. My modded HD800 is toast - the right channel is wrecked - produces a thin sound at about half the volume of the left channel.
  
 So folks - a reminder to always, always give your tube amp a proper shutdown time for the tubes to cool and the capacitors to discharge. I just wrecked my favorite headphone (modded HD800).
  
 Might have to check out the HD800S when it becomes available in 2016.
  
 Glenn was kind enough to share some wisdom via PM on this situation. The amp is well protected - even ripping out a C3g with the power on is not going to damage the amp, but is going to wreck your headphones. In my case I would guess there was about a 3 second pause between powering off the amp and yanking the C3g - nowhere near enough time for the caps to discharge.
  
 I have given myself an epic mental bollocking and have asked my local HeadFi buddy Badas (Donovan) to slap me upside the head next time he sees me.


----------



## JoelT

Sorry to hear that, Tony. Good to know that the amp is alright though. 
  
 I suspect the 800S will be a worthy purchase. I'd like to hear it for myself before making the final decision about "upgrading", but it seems like a logical course of action if your existing 800 down for the count.


----------



## Neogeo333

I have a feeling it was Tony's subconscious telling him to yank it so he can try out the new 800S 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Usually happens when theres a case of upgraditis acutis.


----------



## Khragon

Oh man, thanks for the lesson learned. Too bad the HD800 is ruined, but better it than your hearing or the amp. Glad your hearing recovered quickly. I see HD800S in your future.


----------



## TonyNewman

Thanks Guys - appreciate the kind thoughts. This was user stupidity pure and simple. I just wasn't thinking about what I was doing.
  
 Hell yes on the HD800S. A HD800 with dampened treble and improved bass out of the box? Yes, please.
  
 I just hope Sennheiser don't go nuts on the pricing and jack it up over the 2K USD mark.
  
 I really have an audio chubby for the modded HD800. If the HD800S surpasses that level it will be an awesome achievement.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> Thanks Guys - appreciate the kind thoughts. This was user stupidity pure and simple. I just wasn't thinking about what I was doing.
> 
> Hell yes on the HD800S. A HD800 with dampened treble and improved bass out of the box? Yes, please.
> 
> ...


 
 Price is already announced, $1700 USD.  You can order directly from Meier Audio now.
  
 Everything is provided for you below, except for the credit card 
  
 http://en-us.sennheiser.com/hd-800-s
 http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Price is already announced, $1700 USD.  You can order directly from Meier Audio now.
> 
> Everything is provided for you below, except for the credit card
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you - just sent them an email asking about a HD800S for delivery to NZ.
  
 Also did some snooping on the HD800S thread and read some feedback from the folks that have them already. To sum it up - a 'fixed' HD800. Harsh treble tamed and bass given a boost. That's all I needed to know - will order once Meier audio get back to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Pity I wrecked the HD800, but timing is kinda nice with the HD800S just coming out.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Sorry to hear that Tony.  Even with the bleeder resistors shorting the caps you still need at least 15 mins.  It's a tough pill to swallow for sure.
  
 Glenn and I know how this feels.  Misbehaving 5998 tubes have each fried headphones for us.
  
 It could be worse, you could fry your amp instead of your headphones like I did to the amp Glenn built for me.  I caused a dead short while rolling in a new rectifier and it nuked components.  To this day the amp still has that burned electronics smell inside it.
  
 This is a hobby of great highs and lows, often closely preceding one another I have found.


----------



## gibosi

My habit to protect my hearing and my headphones:
  
 To start: turn the amp on, wait a few minutes, and then connect the headphones.
 To stop: disconnect headphones and then turn off the amp... and if rolling tubes, wait a few more minutes....
  
 I have a three-foot extension headphone cable that is always plugged into the amp. I connect and disconnect the headphones from the extension to save wear and tear on the amp's headphone jack.
  
 Edit: Oh, this is for an OTL. Can you turn a 300B on without having the headphones plugged in?


----------



## lukeap69

Is turning ON/OFF Glenn's amp with the headphone jack plugged in can damage the headphone? I've read that this was a problem for the original Lyr but on the latest iteration.


----------



## TonyNewman

> ...





> I have a three-foot extension headphone cable that is always plugged into the amp. I connect and disconnect the headphones from the extension to save wear and tear on the amp's headphone jack.


 
  
 Clever - I like that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I might start using a single-ended -> XLR converter to do the same job. I can't pick a sonic difference between XLR and single ended on the Glenn 300B (and there shouldn't be one AFAIK). So I am not losing anything by using the single ended connection.


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> Is turning ON/OFF Glenn's amp with the headphone jack plugged in can damage the headphone? I've read that this was a problem for the original Lyr but on the latest iteration.


 
  
 Unlikely. I always turn the volume down to zero before swapping headphones, or when powering up or down, just to be sure.
  
 Crazy thing is that I did that before yanking the C3g. Volume down to zero (good), then switch off (good), then yank the C3g (not good) - and BOOM. Toasted HD800.


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> Is turning ON/OFF Glenn's amp with the headphone jack plugged in can damage the headphone? I've read that this was a problem for the original Lyr but on the latest iteration.


 
  
 The Lyr is a hybrid, tubes up front to provide flavor with SS output. As it has SS output, it is probably not a problem to leave the phones plugged in all the time. However, with an OTL, your phones are essentially connected directly to the plates of the output tubes. And therefore, it is best to allow the tubes to warm up to normal operating temperature before connecting headphones. And again, disconnect headphones before powering down. Bad things can and do happen when turning tube gear on and off....


----------



## lukeap69

Thanks Tony. I guess it always a good idea to unplug the headphones when turning the amp on or off as suggested by Gibosi. Hopefully, your hearing is fully recovered.


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> The Lyr is a hybrid, tubes up front to provide flavor with SS output. As it has SS output, it is probably not a problem to leave the phones plugged in all the time. However, with an OTL, your phones are essentially connected directly to the plates of the output tubes. And therefore, it is best to allow the tubes to warm up to normal operating temperature before connecting headphones. And again, disconnect headphones before powering down. Bad things can and do happen when turning tube gear on and off....


 
 Apparently it was a problem with the original Lyr but not with the Lyr 2. Anyway, I will keep in mind your suggestion to be safe. I am an engineer and SAFETY COMES FIRST!


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> Thanks Tony. I guess it always a good idea to unplug the headphones when turning the amp on or off as suggested by Gibosi. Hopefully, your hearing is fully recovered.


 
  
 Thanks - all good now. The world was sounding a bit 'fuzzy' for an hour or so. That's what made me think that I had broken the amp initially.
  
 Final tip - if you are going to yank a tube before the caps discharge, at least make sure the headphones are no longer on your head. Doing that was doubly stupid and wasn't fun. Thank heaven the power was off, otherwise I could have blown an eardrum, as well as a headphone diaphragm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Be careful out there.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> My habit to protect my hearing and my headphones:
> 
> To start: turn the amp on, wait a few minutes, and then connect the headphones.
> To stop: disconnect headphones and then turn off the amp... and if rolling tubes, wait a few more minutes....
> ...


 
 This is also my habit, turn amp on, let it warm up 15-30 minutes for 5998....then plug in headphones.
  
 Before I turn amp off, I also unplug my cans first....then power down.
  
 I too only have the OTL and not the 300B amp...so things could be much diffrent.
  
 Glad your amp is ok Tony, sorry to hear about the HD800.
  
 I will probably go for an HD800S, once they start showing up 2nd hand for a decent price.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Sorry to hear about the HD800. Good though that the amp is fine.
 I always turn my amps (300B, OTL, SS) on and off without any headphones connected, not sure if that's always ok but that's the habit I developed.
  
 Do you have any info on that HD800 mod? (Only got mine a few weeks ago). thanks!
 btw, can't you get the driver fixed? (If you want I can ask my contacts at Sennheiser Germany)


----------



## parbaked

tonynewman said:


> Pity I wrecked the HD800, but timing is kinda nice with the HD800S just coming out.


 
 Sorry about that...I think that is why Clayton rolls amps instead of tubes!
  
 You can buy replacement driver units from Sennheiser Australia.
 If you fix these you have a back up for your new HD800S!!
 http://service.sennheiser.com.au/consumer/products/hifi-and-tv-headphones/hd-800/dynamic-headphone-capsule.html


----------



## TonyNewman

parbaked said:


> Sorry about that...I think that is why Clayton rolls amps instead of tubes!
> 
> You can buy replacement driver units from Sennheiser Australia.
> If you fix these you have a back up for your new HD800S!!
> http://service.sennheiser.com.au/consumer/products/hifi-and-tv-headphones/hd-800/dynamic-headphone-capsule.html


 
  
  
 Brilliant - thanks guys - I will check this out.
  
 EDIT - Sennheiser have a local office here in NZ. Have contacted them regarding a HD800 driver replacement. I don't expect to hear back until the new year, but it is a good idea to get these repaired. The headphones are still in great condition.


----------



## TonyNewman

> Originally Posted by *Ultrainferno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...
> Do you have any info on that HD800 mod? (Only got mine a few weeks ago). thanks!
> ...


 
  
LINK
  
 Mod is very easy to do and works wonders with the treble peak. Highly recommended.


----------



## whirlwind

tonynewman said:


> parbaked said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry about that...I think that is why Clayton rolls amps instead of tubes!
> ...


 
 yeah, well worth getting them repaired....you can do some A/B testing with both HD800's and your 300B


----------



## TonyNewman

I have swapped out my TA300Bs and popped in a pair of SERPs. These SERPs have plenty of hours on them from my (shudder) WA5 - (IMHO if a 300B can survive extended use in a Woo amp, it can survive nuclear armageddon) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 These 300Bs are immense, hefty and look and feel solid enough to hammer nails with (but don't). I have had these tubes for about 2 years and have often treated them quite roughly (I was new to the tube game and didn't know any better). They have stood up to this abuse very well.
  
 Damn these are good tubes. Mids are nice. Lovely vocals. I am listening to Norah Jones as I type this - a voice made for tubes. Extension up and down is excellent, and the bass is supreme. Really does beat the TA300B for bass. Taks have that special magic happening in the mids / vocals, and the treble has air and delicacy that the SERPs can't quite match, but these are fine, fine tubes. They also have a slightly darker tonality that works well with the Ether C and HE6, which can get a little bright.
  
 Some Glenn amp + SERP porn. Because we all like that sort of thing...


----------



## raybone0566

Beautiful amp Tony


----------



## Khragon

Very nice Tony.  Thanks for sharing.  I decided to buy the HD800S too, since your impressions of the HD800 and Glenn 300B left me drooling.  My wallet is in pain, thanks Tony 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> I have swapped out my TA300Bs and popped in a pair of SERPs. These SERPs have plenty of hours on them from my (shudder) WA5 - (IMHO if a 300B can survive extended use in a Woo amp, it can survive nuclear armageddon)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Tony
 I see that you are not using the C3gs that you removed the can so you can see the tube?


----------



## 3083joe

Very nice @TonyNewman


----------



## RomRom

Great stuff!


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Tony
> I see that you are not using the C3gs that you removed the can so you can see the tube?


 
  
 Those were some skanky old style Lorenz tubes that I uncovered to compares the innards to a modern Siemens (they are different as per pics the have been posted in this thread). The Lorenz tubes didn't sound very nice - I suspect that were just about worn out - so went back to the NOS Telefunkens (which are really Siemens).
  
 I am not going to remove any more caps from the C3gs. It is tedious to do and there is always some risk of damage to the tube and the hassle of marking it properly so I insert it correctly.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Very nice Tony.  Thanks for sharing.  I decided to buy the HD800S too, since your impressions of the HD800 and Glenn 300B left me drooling.  My wallet is in pain, thanks Tony
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 This hobby is never healthy for your wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My tastes are more to the neutral + detailed end of the spectrum. That makes the modded HD800 / HD800S right up my alley. I can't stand the Audeze headphones for both the weight / comfort issue and the murdered treble. Ether C or modded HE6 can get a little bright, so using the SERPs helps with these cans.
  
 For me the HD800 provides the detailed, balanced, neutral sound signature I really like. Combine that with fantastic comfort and it is my 'go to' headphone (at least until I blew mine up).
  
 The HD800 loves powerful tube amps. Feed it with 8W of audio goodness from a 300B and good things happen.
  
 Maybe one day I will arm twist Glenn into building me a PY500 / C3G / 845 amp. That would be something - 20W of class A tube love


----------



## Khragon

845 amp... must have more power. I don't think headphones need the entire 20W, maybe Glenn can come up with ways to run the tube at 10-16W?  The bottlehead guys got an 845 amp too, running at only 4W I believe, to keep it ultra linear.
  
 http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7888.0


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> 845 amp... must have more power. I don't think headphones need the entire 20W, maybe Glenn can come up with ways to run the tube at 10-16W?  The bottlehead guys got an 845 amp too, running at only 4W I believe, to keep it ultra linear.
> 
> http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7888.0


 
  
 That's a nice looking 845 amp.
  
 "... need the entire 20W.. "
  
 Need has nothing to do with it - I _want _the full 20W - we are talking full power audio craziness here. 20W also helps with the option to run it as a speaker amp. If I was being sensible I would stop at the 8W of the 300B amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There is some logic behind this - some headphones seem to scale with the extra power. HD800 is one of them. I once hooked up the HD800 to the speaker taps of a 20W 845 power amp - sound was pretty damn good. Certainly beat the WA5. So the HD800 / HD800S I would expect to respond to the extra wattage. An 845 Glenn amp build around the PY500 / C3G tubeset used in the 300B version (maybe with extra C3Gs to drive the mammoth 845s) would be something special indeed.
  
 This is a dream project. Glenn has plenty of other projects ahead in the queue, but it is an interesting idea.


----------



## 2359glenn

Looks nice but $10,000 for a 4 watt amp What.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Looks nice but $10,000 for a 4 watt amp What.


 
  
 Exactly - if you are going to power up 845 tubes give me 20W. Power, Baby!!


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Looks nice but $10,000 for a 4 watt amp What.
> ...


 

 Allot cheaper and easy to run it at low voltage and low power output.
 Then sell it for 10K because it is a 845 amp.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Allot cheaper and easy to run it at low voltage and low power output.
> Then sell it for 10K because it is a 845 amp.


 
  
 Bah - no point running an 845 at a similar output power as a 300B. Give me the wattage!!!


----------



## raybone0566

2359glenn said:


> Looks nice but $10,000 for a 4 watt amp What.


Can't it really sound that much better?


----------



## TonyNewman

SERPs are out and I have the Taks back in. Oh my. Bass punch and heft takes a small hit, and the Ether C does exhibit a little brightness - but in every other aspect - just superb. These are _*fantastic *_300Bs. Detailed, extended, that midrange, those vocals... oh my. Multiple nerdgasms guaranteed upon use.
  
 SERPs are a muscle car. Fast, powerful, punchy, impressive, but a little lacking in refinement and control.
  

  
  
 Takatsukis are a European supercar. Beautiful, poised, elegant, superb. A surgeons scalpel to the SERPs blunt instrument.
  

  
  
 For rocking out I would go for the SERPs. For anything vocal centric or instrumental it is the Taks.
  
 My *cough* WA5 *hack* never came close to highlighting just how good these tubes really are. The Glenn amp gives the 300B center stage - best I can tell the C3g and PY500 are extremely transparent - they add or take away very little. The Lundahls are about as good as transformers can get. The internal circuitry is well done with top notch components. So what you are hearing is what the 300B brings to the table and not much else. I love that.


----------



## Khragon

Geez Tony, words are not enough to describe how good Glenn 300B is, you have to include pictures of car and women? haha... can't wait for my amp!


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> ... you have to include pictures of car and women? ...


 
  
 Women? What women? It was all a terrible mistake, honest! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I hope you enjoy your Glenn 300B as much as I am enjoying mine. Fantastic piece of gear.
  
 Just be sure to put some worthy 300Bs in it. Putting rubbish 300Bs into this amp should be a capital crime.
  

  
 Just say NO.


----------



## Khragon

No need to worry on the tube front. I got Elrogs, SERPs, and WE300Bs reissued. Takatsukis are in my future, but the HD800S took the funding instead, so they will have to wait for the latter half of the year.

I've bought 7 telefunken py500a from ebay and have a couple sets of Siemens c3g ready.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> No need to worry on the tube front. I got Elrogs, SERPs, and WE300Bs reissued. Takatsukis are in my future, but the HD800S took the funding instead, so they will have to wait for the latter half of the year.
> 
> I've bought 7 telefunken py500a from ebay and have a couple sets of Siemens c3g ready.


 
  
 Wonderful. When you get a chance please share how you find the sound of the Elrogs vs the other 300Bs above. Inquiring minds would like to know... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I like me some Telefunken PY500s. They look great and have a nice orange glow. I can't detect any sonic difference in rolling PY500s, so I use the Teles.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

tonynewman said:


> Clever - I like that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry for your accident.  I have a cable like you describe, for my Sony headphones.  Very handy setup.  And it's just a male and female XLR spliced near the end leaving this:
  

  
 A person good with soldering can do this in a half an hour or so.  I had someone do it for me because sadly I lack the soldering gene....
  
 How's the used headphone market in your neck of the woods?  I'm just as curious about the HD800s as you, but there are communities trying to replicate the "s" onto the standard HD800.  If you're not super anxious, maybe hold out and see if success happens with the modders.  Then at least your blown headphones could make a nice parts source, whereas who knows with the "s".
  
 The frugal part of me wants you to minimize your loss, sorry....
  
 But I promise you your lesson wont go unremembered.


----------



## 2359glenn

Why not make a 4pin XLR male to 4pin XLR  female
 The XLR plug is Superior to the 1/4" phone plug and jack.
 Or just unplug the headphone XLR?


----------



## 2359glenn

I live in the boonies so I don't have to deal with morons
 Today there was just a shootout in front of my house the neighbor across the street went nuts and started shooting up the neighborhood.
 Don't know why in the USA it is a good idea for every ********* moron that can sign there name can go to a gun store and buy anything
 they want.


----------



## lukeap69

Oh geez. Hope nobody got hurt (or killed.)


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> I live in the boonies so I don't have to deal with morons
> Today there was just a shootout in front of my house the neighbor across the street went nuts and started shooting up the neighborhood.
> Don't know why in the USA it is a good idea for every ********* moron that can sign there name can go to a gun store and buy anything
> they want.


 
 Clearly he was a militia member....


----------



## 2359glenn

The police finally came and hauled him away.
 Don't think anybody was heart but not sure we are staying in the house.


----------



## 2359glenn

longbowbbs said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I live in the boonies so I don't have to deal with morons
> ...


 

 Just a nut


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> The police finally came and hauled him away.
> Don't think anybody was heart but not sure we are staying in the house.


 
  
 Stay safe.
  
 On the gun thing - it was a big change for me, from Australia and New Zealand and the UK - where getting an arms license is a lengthy and tedious process. In my 3 years in the USA I enjoyed being able to purchase and use handguns at a local range without any hassles, but the downside is that any crazy nutter (or criminal) that wants to obtain a firearm can do so.
  
 I know the second amendment is cherished by many Americans, but the country pays a very high price for it.
  
 Just saying, and I don't want to spark a gun debate in the Glenn thread


----------



## parbaked

Glad you guys are safe Glenn!
 The last gun store in San Francisco was in my neighborhood. It closed in October.
 I like how it's right next to a bar (Iron & Gold) so you can get a few cocktails to celebrate your new purchase! 

 Pizza Hacker is on the next block so Clayton and I have been to this bar for pre-pizza happy hour but it's not as good as our $5 tequila joint...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

2359glenn said:


> Just a nut


 
  
 Geeze, any bullets come on your property?  I'd suggest checking your house for bullet wounds...


----------



## Neogeo333

Glad your alright.  Next time send him Mr. Ed.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I live in the boonies so I don't have to deal with morons
> Today there was just a shootout in front of my house the neighbor across the street went nuts and started shooting up the neighborhood.
> Don't know why in the USA it is a good idea for every ********* moron that can sign there name can go to a gun store and buy anything
> they want.


 
 Wow, glad you guys are ok.
  
 I agree with you on the gun buying issue.


----------



## Silent One

@ 2359glenn
  
 Sorry to hear your peace was violently interrupted. But excited to learn that y'all are ok. And that our audio adventures may continue.


----------



## Khragon

That was scary.  Glad you and Lucy are OK, hopefully no one got hurt through all this craziness.


----------



## 2359glenn

buttuglyjeff said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Just a nut
> ...


 

 No I think we would have heard it get hit. The house is pretty solid a log cabin.
 And we were behind the big rock fireplace no bullets can go through that.


----------



## lukeap69

Happy new year everyone and have a safe one.


----------



## 3083joe

lukeap69 said:


> Happy new year everyone and have a safe one.



You too.


----------



## longbowbbs

Happy New Year my friends. Here's to a 2016 filled with great tubes and the time to enjoy the amps they are plugged into!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Happy NY everyone. Have a beer on me


----------



## lukeap69

I have a feeling that my Glenn's OTL amp will be my 2016 best purchase.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> I have a feeling that my Glenn's OTL amp will be my 2016 best purchase.


 
  I think you will like it very much.
  
 I have been enjoying it lately with my Senn HD650 headphone and currently I am listening with the GEC 6080 & the Brimar 13D1 driver tube, which is a 25SN7 tube and was recommended to me by Glenn.
  
 This is such a warm and wonderful combo paired with the HD650....I could listen to all day without a hint of fatigue....no edge at all in the upper end, yet still full of detail.
  

  
 I really love the detail of the C3g's...they are really spectacular, but I also love being able to listen to a really warm and tubey sound when I want and then just roll tubes and listen to a very dynamic sound if I feel like that.
  
 I am not looking for the one combination that I want to stay with, as I like changing up my sound signature....I do have my favorites....but nothing beats being able to change it up with a quick tube swap and the rolling options are so plentiful, they seem endless  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Glenns OTL allows you to achieve this effortlessly....I have never had more fun rolling tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Happy New Year, everyone!
 I'm looking forward to seeing some of you in 2016.
 Be it here in SF or abroad!


----------



## musicman59

2359glenn said:


> I live in the boonies so I don't have to deal with morons
> Today there was just a shootout in front of my house the neighbor across the street went nuts and started shooting up the neighborhood.
> Don't know why in the USA it is a good idea for every ********* moron that can sign there name can go to a gun store and buy anything
> they want.


 
 Wow! That is insane! Glad you guys are ok.
 We complaint about the violence and craziness at other countries when we have the same thing here... I live in the Detroit metro area and this year every single day in the early TV news there was at least one report of a killing by shooting or stabbing... I have no idea how many people have died but have to be in the hundreds.... Everybody should fine peace in the beauty of music


----------



## Khragon

lukeap69 said:


> I have a feeling that my Glenn's OTL amp will be my 2016 best purchase.


 

 I have a feeling that will be true for me as well 
  
 Happy New Year everyone.


----------



## lukeap69

khragon said:


> I have a feeling that will be true for me as well
> 
> Happy New Year everyone.




We will feel the Force in 2016.


----------



## Clayton SF

lukeap69 said:


> We will feel the Force in 2016.


 

 I will feel no wallet in 2016!


----------



## Khragon

Haha that too. Good thing is I will be at my "end game" after Glenn 300B.


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy New Year everyone


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> I have a feeling that my Glenn's OTL amp will be my 2016 best purchase.


 

 I got six 6BL7s for you if you want to take them.


----------



## whirlwind

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY!


----------



## Thenewguy007

Glenn, if I may ask, but what is the most you would build for your amps?
 I mean if someone ordered one & wanted to go all out, with everything maxed out, highest quality parts you can find & every upgrade to get the most power etc...
  
 Are we still talking within the price grasp of the bare bones build, or we talking thousands of thousands more?


----------



## 2359glenn

thenewguy007 said:


> Glenn, if I may ask, but what is the most you would build for your amps?
> I mean if someone ordered one & wanted to go all out, with everything maxed out, highest quality parts you can find & every upgrade to get the most power etc...
> 
> Are we still talking within the price grasp of the bare bones build, or we talking thousands of thousands more?


 

 What Amp are you talking about the OTL or the 300B???


----------



## Thenewguy007

2359glenn said:


> What Amp are you talking about the OTL or the 300B???


 

 OTL are for higher impedance right?
 So say a custom OTL amplifier. Would the upgrades just be higher end caps & a power supply?


----------



## gibosi

thenewguy007 said:


> OTL are for higher impedance right?
> So say a custom OTL amplifier. Would the upgrades just be higher end caps & a power supply?


 
  
 Some upgrades are intended to provide a higher SQ, such as the ones you mention, while others allow for rolling a wider variety of tubes. For example, 12 volt tubes, or a pair of C3g.


----------



## whirlwind

thenewguy007 said:


> > Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> >
> >
> >
> ...


 
 You can also use low impedence headphones with Glenns OTL amp.
  
 I have been listening to Joe Bonamassa with my Grado headphones today....flat out wonderful combo.

  If this combo does not get your head bobbin' & your feet tappin'.....there is no hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  
 
  
  
 Anybody ever see a Nickelharpa before ?


----------



## raybone0566

whirlwind,
Which grados do you have? I've got a pair of sr80e's but have never paired them with an otl.


----------



## whirlwind

raybone0566 said:


> whirlwind,
> Which grados do you have? I've got a pair of sr80e's but have never paired them with an otl.


 
 I never have either, until now and the combo is wonderful.
  
 I currently have the 225i and with the 6336 & C3g tubes the detail and transparency is so darn good....I may have to get the RS1 again  or maybe the RS2e.
  
 Those SR80e will sound great from Glenn's amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

While running errands this morning, I passes a high-end audio shop.


----------



## parbaked

clayton sf said:


> While running errands this morning, I passes a high-end audio shop.


 
 ...and realized I didn't have red speakers or a bamboo turntable...yet...


----------



## gibosi

clayton sf said:


>


 
  
 An interesting name: 
  
 奇跡 = miracle; wonder; marvel


----------



## whirlwind

Quote:Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
   While running errands this morning, I passes a high-end audio shop.
  



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 



  
 When I first saw this.....I thought it was your listening station, Clayton


----------



## vc1187

Haha, I thought the exact same thing.


----------



## Clayton SF

... and it reminded me of Lieven's listen room! Ha ha.


----------



## Clayton SF

My collection Glenn's adapters over the years.
 Thanks, Glenn.
  
 Sorry for the mess of spaghetti wires but I have to figure out a more effective way of hiding them.
  
 There is also wasted space under the PS Audio Power Plant (right, background).
  

  


Spoiler: Alien plant shoots.


----------



## whirlwind

Very nice, Clayton....I would love to try a couple of those.


----------



## vc1187

Just re-acquired a pair of HD800s.  
  
 I am in shock how good they sound paired with the Glenn OTL with the Black Glass Ken-RAD 6SN7GT VT-231.  Adds the essential intimacy, low end boost, and treble peak suppression that I feel like the HD800 needs in a proper pairing.  IMO, this pairing mops the floor with the original ZD paired with HD800, which is no offense to Craig, but more of an issue I have with sharp treble spikes with this particular pairing.  DNA Stratus coming in a few days that I will post some impressions when paired with the HD800, but I can very confidently say that to my ears, this is currently the best I have heard the HD800 sound!


----------



## jhljhl

vc1187 said:


> Just re-acquired a pair of HD800s.
> 
> I am in shock how good they sound paired with the Glenn OTL with the Black Glass Ken-RAD 6SN7GT VT-231.  Adds the essential intimacy, low end boost, and treble peak suppression that I feel like the HD800 needs in a proper pairing.  IMO, this pairing mops the floor with the original ZD paired with HD800, which is no offense to Craig, but more of an issue I have with sharp treble spikes with this particular pairing.  DNA Stratus coming in a few days that I will post some impressions when paired with the HD800, but I can very confidently say that to my ears, this is currently the best I have heard the HD800 sound!


 
 Pics of glenn otl and hd800 setup?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And stratus impressions.


----------



## vc1187

jhljhl said:


> Pics of glenn otl and hd800 setup?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Stratus is not arriving till later this week, so impressions vs. the Glenn OTL with HD800 will come later.
  
 Here's a photo of current setup:


----------



## whirlwind

Very nice


----------



## vc1187

Just FYI for those that wondered, amp placement on the shelves is not based on any ordering of which I like more than the other.  The ZD on/off switch is on the right side, so it's easiest to access on the top of the shelf.  I'm not 100% sure how much weight the middle shelf can hold, so the lightest goes there, considering the Glenn OTL is one pretty heavy amp!


----------



## punit

vc1187  So will we see the ZD in the F.S classifieds soon


----------



## jhljhl

vc1187 said:


> Stratus is not arriving till later this week, so impressions vs. the Glenn OTL with HD800 will come later.
> 
> Here's a photo of current setup:


 

 Nice rack.


----------



## Ultrainferno

vc1187 said:


> Stratus is not arriving till later this week, so impressions vs. the Glenn OTL with HD800 will come later.
> 
> Here's a photo of current setup:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very nice!!
 The rack needs more amps though


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

vc1187 said:


> Stratus is not arriving till later this week, so impressions vs. the Glenn OTL with HD800 will come later.
> 
> Here's a photo of current setup:


 
  
 May I ask where you got that shelf?


----------



## Jeb Listens

Wow - a three-way shoot-out between the Glenn, DNA and the ZD with the HD650 & 800 would be awesome.  
  
 I think choosing between these 2 or 3 is a common dilemma for someone looking for an end-game tube amp for Senns, so any insight about differences and similarities would be greatly appreciated.
  
 Of course.. enjoy your new toy first 
  
 Nice to see that the Crack still has a place amongst all these fine amps.


----------



## vc1187

Quote:


punit said:


> vc1187  So will we see the ZD in the F.S classifieds soon



  
 The ZD does get very little use as a headphone amp nowadays... however, it plays a vital role as a preamp for me and does one hell of a job!  So unless I hit a financial crisis, then I'll probably hold onto it.
  
 Quote:


ultrainferno said:


> Very nice!!
> The rack needs more amps though


 
 I agree.  Should look a bit more filled up once the Stratus comes aboard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  


buttuglyjeff said:


> May I ask where you got that shelf?


 
 Interestingly enough, I got dragged to *TJ Maxx* by my significant other to do some after Christmas _browsing_.  As bummed out as I was, I decided to take a look around.  This was labeled as a 'bookshelf', but looked like a perfect audio rack in my eyes: enough width, depth, and height between shelves to fit those tall tubes.  The last question was if it could handle the weight... so I sat on top of it in the store (and received some strange looks in the process), and I was pleasantly surprised that it did not crumble to the floor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  At $100, it was a no brainer.


----------



## Ultrainferno

@Clayton SF , I'm thinking of moving my office to the cat's room as I need more room for my amps (Yes my friends, that's right, the cat has a bigger room than I do)
 That does mean you'll be sleeping between my gear next time. And maybe some cats


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> @Clayton SF , I'm thinking of moving my office to the cat's room as I need more room for my amps (Yes my friends, that's right, the cat has a bigger room than I do)
> That does mean you'll be sleeping between my gear next time. And maybe some cats


 
  
@Ultrainferno, More amps? This is beginning to sound familiar. However; I can't think of a better way to fall asleep in Belgium. Headphone Heaven!


----------



## 2359glenn

vc1187 said:


> Just re-acquired a pair of HD800s.
> 
> I am in shock how good they sound paired with the Glenn OTL with the Black Glass Ken-RAD 6SN7GT VT-231.  Adds the essential intimacy, low end boost, and treble peak suppression that I feel like the HD800 needs in a proper pairing.  IMO, this pairing mops the floor with the original ZD paired with HD800, which is no offense to Craig, but more of an issue I have with sharp treble spikes with this particular pairing.  DNA Stratus coming in a few days that I will post some impressions when paired with the HD800, but I can very confidently say that to my ears, this is currently the best I have heard the HD800 sound!


 

 You can use low impedance phones on this amp if you use 6336 tubes for the outputs. Not many amps can take this power hog of a tube.
 Didn't know if you knew this as you bought it used.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> You can use low impedance phones on this amp if you use 6336 tubes for the outputs. Not many amps can take this power hog of a tube.
> Didn't know if you knew this as you bought it used.


 
  
 Glenn, can I use the 6336 tube in your vintage OTL that you built for me?


----------



## Groundzero

clayton sf said:


> Glenn, can I use the 6336 tube in your vintage OTL that you built for me?


 
 I'd be curios to know about my amp too. I still use D7000s which are 25 ohm.


----------



## whirlwind

I just received a couple more 5998 tubes today and I am listening to them now....one of them has a round getter toward the bottom of the tube on the right side...I have 4 5998 tubes and this is the only one with a getter like this......is it pretty normal.
  

  
 The tubes sound wonderful, by the way


----------



## Barra

vc1187 said:


> Just re-acquired a pair of HD800s.
> 
> I am in shock how good they sound paired with the Glenn OTL with the Black Glass Ken-RAD 6SN7GT VT-231.  Adds the essential intimacy, low end boost, and treble peak suppression that I feel like the HD800 needs in a proper pairing.  IMO, this pairing mops the floor with the original ZD paired with HD800, which is no offense to Craig, but more of an issue I have with sharp treble spikes with this particular pairing.  DNA Stratus coming in a few days that I will post some impressions when paired with the HD800, but I can very confidently say that to my ears, this is currently the best I have heard the HD800 sound!


 
 Does that mean that you will be selling me your ZD for cheap?


----------



## 2359glenn

groundzero said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, can I use the 6336 tube in your vintage OTL that you built for me?
> ...


 

 The 6336 can be used in all of the OTLs


----------



## Clayton SF

groundzero said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, can I use the 6336 tube in your vintage OTL that you built for me?
> ...


 

  
 Quote:


2359glenn said:


> The 6336 can be used in all of the OTLs


 

 Thanks, Glenn.
 Yay! More tubes to roll. Eek! More tubes to roll! 
  
 I still use the D7000s too. That's such a great headphone.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I just received a couple more 5998 tubes today and I am listening to them now....one of them has a round getter toward the bottom of the tube on the right side...I have 4 5998 tubes and this is the only one with a getter like this......is it pretty normal.


 
  
 This construction, two halo getters, one on top and one on the side, is quite common in 5998 manufactured in the late 1960's. For example. I have such a pair, one dated 6821 (1968 week 21) and the other, 6934 (1969 week 34).


----------



## gibosi

clayton sf said:


> Thanks, Glenn.
> Yay! More tubes to roll. Eek! More tubes to roll!


 
  
 It is my understanding that the 6336B is the one to get, rather than the earlier 6336 and 6336A.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, Glenn.
> ...


 

 Yes the A should be OK too


----------



## punit

I use Tungsol Chatham 6336, works quite well with TH 900. The already good soundstage becomes even more expansive. Can't believe this is a closed HP.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I just received a couple more 5998 tubes today and I am listening to them now....one of them has a round getter toward the bottom of the tube on the right side...I have 4 5998 tubes and this is the only one with a getter like this......is it pretty normal.
> ...


 
 Thank Ken, this is the first 5998 tube that I own that has this getter on the side....mine is a 1966.
  
 I love the sound from the 5998 tubes.
  


punit said:


> I use Tungsol Chatham 6336, works quite well with TH 900. The already good soundstage becomes even more expansive. Can't believe this is a closed HP.


 
 punit....those 6336 tubes do not have the graphite plates, correct ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Thanks, Glenn.
> Yay! More tubes to roll. Eek! More tubes to roll!
> 
> I still use the D7000s too. That's such a great headphone.


 
  
  
 C, if you can wait till april, I'll bring you a pair of these
  

  

  

  
  
  


whirlwind said:


> punit....those 6336 tubes do not have the graphite plates, correct ?


 
  
 They certainly do, check above.


----------



## Ultrainferno

BTW, If there's enough interest in these tubes, I'm willing to do another group buy. But not under 10 tubes.


----------



## punit

whirlwind said:


> punit....those 6336 tubes do not have the graphite plates, correct ?


 
  
  


ultrainferno said:


> They certainly do, check above.


 
 Mine  have diff construction


----------



## Ultrainferno

Glenn and others to the rescue! 
 Which of these tubes do we want?


----------



## punit

Think both should work just fine. These must be like 6080 tubes - slotted vs solid plates. Please correct me if wrong.


----------



## dminches

I have an NOS pair of Tung-Sol 6336Bs if someone is interested.  $100 shipped to CONUS.
  

  
 And an NOS pair of Centron 6336As if someone is interested.  $125 shipped to CONUS.


----------



## Groundzero

Which setting for the switch on the back to use 6336? 6AS7 or 5998?


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> C, if you can wait till april, I'll bring you a pair of these
> They certainly do, check above.


 
  
 YES! I can wait till April. Your tubes look solid. Nice. And Thanks!


----------



## Xcalibur255

groundzero said:


> Which setting for the switch on the back to use 6336? 6AS7 or 5998?


 
  
 I would run the 5998 setting.  The 6336 can take a lot more plate current than either a 6AS7 or 5998 can. 
  
 The ideal biasing might be even higher than what the 5998 switch mode is providing.
  
 Come to think I wonder why we haven't explored that yet?  It stands to reason neither bias setting puts the 6336 on the ideal part of its curve.......... there might be hidden SQ potential in this tube just like we unlocked from the 5998 a few years ago.


----------



## dminches

Hi Tyrell. Good to "see" you!


----------



## 2359glenn

groundzero said:


> Which setting for the switch on the back to use 6336? 6AS7 or 5998?


 

 Tyrell is right use the 5998 position for lowest impedance and highest power output.
 Just don't use a wimpy rectifier when running the 6336.


----------



## gibosi

Leeds Radio's Etsy store has a nice pair of 6336B for a good price:
  
 https://www.etsy.com/listing/216655587/pair-ge-6336b-vacuum-tubes-graphite?ref=shop_home_active_4&ga_search_query=6336
  
 And I agree with him. Even though labeled as 6336A, the construction clearly indicates that these are in fact 6336B.


----------



## Groundzero

2359glenn said:


> Tyrell is right use the 5998 position for lowest impedance and highest power output.
> Just don't use a wimpy rectifier when running the 6336.


 
 Is a 596 sufficient?


----------



## Xcalibur255

groundzero said:


> Is a 596 sufficient?


 

 It should be, but you might be running it fairly hard.  The 3DG4 has more headroom (350ma vs. 275ma on the 596).


----------



## gibosi

Earlier, Glenn said that the Cossor 53KU (250ma) should be fine with the 6336 in the 5998 mode.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/12525#post_12176232
  
 So it seems that any rectifier that can provide at least 250ma and up should be good to go.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Earlier, Glenn said that the Cossor 53KU (250ma) should be fine with the 6336 in the 5998 mode.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/12525#post_12176232
> 
> So it seems that any rectifier that can provide at least 250ma and up should be good to go.


 

 Yes the 53KU should be OK.
 If you still have the 3DG4 with it's 350ma use that.


----------



## vc1187

Stratus has arrived!
  
 Initial impressions vs. Glenn OTL (Using HD800): The Stratus is truly a beautiful sounding amp, but the Glenn OTL doesn't miss a beat and to my ears is an equal match for the big blue beast.  Glenn is configured with a Sylvania 3DG4, 2 GEC 6080, and Ken Rad 6SN7GT Black Glass. Stratus configured and tested with both stock tubes and EML Mesh 2A3s, with a few different 5U4G tubes in the rectifier position.
  
 Stratus with HD800:
 Offers a larger soundstage with great realism.  HD800 still sounds like a bright headphone and retains all of its great qualities while minimizing the things that people generally criticize it for.  Stunning performance all across the board and dead quiet.
  
 Glenn OTL:
 Vocals have great body and presence and it's immediately noticeable when moving from Stratus to Glenn.  While the soundstage is smaller and there is slightly less sense of realism compared to the Stratus, the sound I am hearing is the ultimate level of what one would call 'low level of fatigue' when describing the HD800.
  
 More impressions to come as I do some tube rolling on both amps.  Here's an updated photo.  The Stratus is much larger than I expected!


----------



## JoelT

vc1187 said:


> Stratus has arrived!....


 
  
 Thanks for the impressions! Appreciated.
  
 Just a note: I would add that the Ken Rad VT-231 6SN7GT isn't a very transparent or open sounding tube with the Glenn. The two I have seem to lack treble extension and are very warm and colored. I can see where some would find this sound appealing with the HD800, but it lacked realism to my ears. As with anything YMMV, etc. But I just wanted to point out that there are more transparent driver tube options than the KR, if that's what one is after.


----------



## whirlwind

vc1187 said:


> Stratus has arrived!
> 
> Initial impressions vs. Glenn OTL (Using HD800): The Stratus is truly a beautiful sounding amp, but the Glenn OTL doesn't miss a beat and to my ears is an equal match for the big blue beast.  Glenn is configured with a Sylvania 3DG4, 2 GEC 6080, and Ken Rad 6SN7GT Black Glass. Stratus configured and tested with both stock tubes and EML Mesh 2A3s, with a few different 5U4G tubes in the rectifier position.
> 
> ...


 
 Wonderful gear there...just wonderful.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

vc1187 said:


> ...The Stratus is much larger than I expected!


 
  
 And I believe Don has a couple prototypes that are even larger...


----------



## vc1187

joelt said:


> Thanks for the impressions! Appreciated.
> 
> Just a note: I would add that the Ken Rad VT-231 6SN7GT isn't a very transparent or open sounding tube with the Glenn. The two I have seem to lack treble extension and are very warm and colored. I can see where some would find this sound appealing with the HD800, but it lacked realism to my ears. As with anything YMMV, etc. But I just wanted to point out that there are more transparent driver tube options than the KR, if that's what one is after.


 

 I agree with these impressions about the KR tube.  I actually hated this tube with the HD650, and much preferred a Tung Sol 6SN7GTB tube.  It made the HD650 sound closed in, dark, and veiled.  I guess I am just one of those people that doesn't find that detracting from the HD800's treble extension, soundstage, and causing it to be warmer to be a bad thing.  However, I do also appreciate the flip side where the HD800 benefits greatly from increased transparency without being overly ear-piercing in the highs.
  
 I find the KR 6SN7GT in the Glenn OTL to make the HD800 a very pleasant pair of headphones to listen to.  Effects of tube rolling on the Glenn seem to have a larger impact than tube rolling on the Stratus when paired with the HD800.


----------



## gibosi

vc1187 said:


> More impressions to come as I do some tube rolling on both amps.  Here's an updated photo.


 
  
 I second JoeIT's comments. IMHO, transparency is not a strength of the KR. Further, I don't find the Sylvania 3DG4 to be the most resolving rectifier either. So I look forward to hearing more about your impressions as you trial different tube combinations.
  
 Currently, I am listening to the Cossor 53KU, Chatham/Tung-Sol 5998 (with the switch on) and a GEC B36. The big bass and warmth of the 5998s and the 53KU matched up with the characteristically airy and detailed GEC sound of the B36 is about as good as it gets, IMO.


----------



## vc1187

gibosi said:


> I second JoeIT's comments. IMHO, transparency is not a strength of the KR. Further, I don't find the Sylvania 3DG4 to be the most resolving rectifier either. So I look forward to hearing more about your impressions as you trial different tube combinations.
> 
> Currently, I am listening to the Cossor 53KU, Chatham/Tung-Sol 5998 (with the switch on) and a GEC B36. The big bass and warmth of the 5998s and the 53KU matched up with the characteristically airy and detailed GEC sound of the B36 is about as good as it gets, IMO.


 

 Unless I am missing something, I don't know what switch you guys are talking about.  Perhaps mine doesn't have one?
  
 Glenn, I have the same amp that Dubstep Girl reviewed earlier in this thread.  Does it have the switch mentioned and can it run 5998s?


----------



## JoelT

vc1187 said:


> Unless I am missing something, I don't know what switch you guys are talking about.  Perhaps mine doesn't have one?
> 
> Glenn, I have the same amp that Dubstep Girl reviewed earlier in this thread.  Does it have the switch mentioned and can it run 5998s?


 
 My amp doesn't have the 5998 bias switch either. I don't think the earlier builds did, from what I remember reading. It can still run 5998 tubes (I am currently using 5998 equiv), just not as optimally.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> vc1187 said:
> 
> 
> > More impressions to come as I do some tube rolling on both amps.  Here's an updated photo.
> ...


 
 I am enjoying the 5998 and B36 combo as well.....my rectifiers are PY500 and not the Cossor 53KU....but the signature is stunning.
  
 Flac files...PS Audio Nuwave...HD800 is the rest of the chain.


----------



## vc1187

joelt said:


> My amp doesn't have the 5998 bias switch either. I don't think the earlier builds did, from what I remember reading. It can still run 5998 tubes (I am currently using 5998 equiv), just not as optimally.


 

 Thanks for answering that.  Looks like I'll have to find a good deal on a matched pair of 5998s.


----------



## jhljhl

vc1187 said:


> Stratus has arrived!
> 
> Initial impressions vs. Glenn OTL (Using HD800): The Stratus is truly a beautiful sounding amp, but the Glenn OTL doesn't miss a beat and to my ears is an equal match for the big blue beast.  Glenn is configured with a Sylvania 3DG4, 2 GEC 6080, and Ken Rad 6SN7GT Black Glass. Stratus configured and tested with both stock tubes and EML Mesh 2A3s, with a few different 5U4G tubes in the rectifier position.
> 
> ...


 

 You have three OTL and a SET amp.  I was considering getting the Glenn OTL that you have but I thought I might wait for a 6sn7/c3g version because I think the latter are pretty good tubes.  But hearing your impressions I think this otl is also a great value.


----------



## Xcalibur255

joelt said:


> My amp doesn't have the 5998 bias switch either. I don't think the earlier builds did, from what I remember reading. It can still run 5998 tubes (I am currently using 5998 equiv), just not as optimally.


 
  
 The 5998 switch originated with me and my amp.  I actually mailed it back to Glenn to have it put in after the idea was formed.  After mine some amps had it and some didn't.  Both Glenn and I had trouble with bad 5998 tubes developing shorts and blowing up our headphones, so there was some feeling of just pushing the 5998 tube aside and not using it at all after all that happened.
  
 I can say if you like the 5998 and intend to run it the switch should be considered essential.  The 5998 sounds a lot better with the increased plate current, it's not just a slight difference.  It really brings the tube to life.  But you have to make sure you get a pair of 5998s that aren't junk, or at the very least don't plug your headphones in until the amp comes on bias.  If the tube is going to short and produce a pop it will happen when it's just coming on bias, about 30 seconds after power on.
  
 On the subject of driver tubes, people who have the 6/12/25 volt driver switch should have a Brimar 13D1 in their OTL.  Very good tube that flatters the amp and doesn't cost much.  The Ken Rads don't show off what the amp is capable of in terms of resolution or detail retrieval.
  
 I really hate to say it, but the very best driver tube is the Osram B65.  I know, I know it's the most expensive 6SN7 type tube on earth, but after hearing one for myself I understood why.  My B65 never leaves the driver socket of my OTL, everything else including a black glass round plate Tung Sol just doesn't sound as complete by comparison.


----------



## whirlwind

xcalibur255 said:


> joelt said:
> 
> 
> > My amp doesn't have the 5998 bias switch either. I don't think the earlier builds did, from what I remember reading. It can still run 5998 tubes (I am currently using 5998 equiv), just not as optimally.
> ...


 
 I agree that the Brimar 13D1 is a wonderful sounding tube, Glenn recommended it to me and it was the first driver tube that I bought....i like it a lot....I do not own a B65....but I do have a B36, the 12 volt little brother


----------



## 2359glenn

The B36 is the same as a B65 just a 12 volt filament they should sound the same.
 Just allot cheaper.


----------



## punit

whirlwind said:


> I do not own a B65....but I do have a B36, the 12 volt little brother


 
 Think 12.6v B36 is big brother to 6.3v B65


----------



## Khragon

I'm curious on why the 6v version has wider usage in more amps than the 12v version? I'm guessing the price disparity between them is simply due to demand.


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I do not own a B65....but I do have a B36, the 12 volt little brother
> ...


 
 Ha ha ha....I like the way you think, punit.


----------



## gibosi

Echoing Xcalibur255, in my opinion, the B65/B36 with the 5998 is extraordinary. Every Glenn OTL owner really should have this driver. That said, when running the GEC B36 with GEC 6AS7 output tubes, I do not experience the same magic. Perhaps it is just too much GEC goodness? lol. So with the GEC 6AS7, something like the Mullard ECC31, with a bit more warmth and bass weight seems better to me. But of course, as always, my ears and gear.


----------



## Neogeo333

Anyone with a real version of the B36 is not missing anything from the B65.  Im assuming its the metal base from Marconi/Osram.  Some are brown base and some made in Holland.
 The metal UK ones are the best.  I had quite a few of each and the 12 and 6v are the same.  Even the QA2408 the military version sounds the same to me.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> I'm curious on why the 6v version has wider usage in more amps than the 12v version? I'm guessing the price disparity between them is simply due to demand.


 

 Not that many amps can take a 12SN7 so the more demand for the 6 volt version.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Not that many amps can take a 12SN7 so the more demand for the 6 volt version.


 

 I guess it's feedback system into itself, more owner with 6SN7 fuel more demand for amp with 6SN7, which produce more owner, rinse and repeat...


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Echoing Xcalibur255, in my opinion, the B65/B36 with the 5998 is extraordinary. Every Glenn OTL owner really should have this driver. That said, when running the GEC B36 with GEC 6AS7 output tubes, I do not experience the same magic. Perhaps it is just too much GEC goodness? lol. So with the GEC 6AS7, something like the Mullard ECC31, with a bit more warmth and bass weight seems better to me. But of course, as always, my ears and gear.


 
  
 The B65 and 5998 have outstanding synergy, maybe the best I've heard in all the tube rolling I did with the amp over the years.  I found the B65 to be a great driver for Tung Sol 6520 tubes as well, very different sound but still really nice.  The 5998 in general seems to require more experimentation to match a good driver tube.  An ECC32 for example, doesn't sound very good at all with them, at least not to my ears.  Some of the better Sylvanias are safe pairings too if one doesn't want to exhaust their savings buying rare old tubes.    You just have to stay away from the ones with a reputation for being bright.


----------



## punit

B65 & Tung Sol 6336 also have  very good synergy


----------



## listen4joy

vc1187 can you did a depth comparasion beetween the 4 amps? most important for me to know if glenn is really good like the stratus people can save here some big $$. is it really that good?
 the stratus cost 4 times more!! if it 95% SQ like stratus sure i am jump on it and conclusion that stratus is just waste of more $$$, what really i want to know how stratus compare to ZDSE


----------



## vc1187

listen4joy said:


> vc1187 can you did a depth comparasion beetween the 4 amps? most important for me to know if glenn is really good like the stratus people can save here some big $$. is it really that good?
> the stratus cost 4 times more!! if it 95% SQ like stratus sure i am jump on it and conclusion that stratus is just waste of more $$$, what really i want to know how stratus compare to ZDSE


 
 Need more time with the Stratus before I can do a more in depth comparison since I just received it this past Friday.  To answer some of your questions, here are my thoughts.
  
 The Glenn OTL, ZD, and Stratus are in their own league above the BHC w/speedball as far as technicalities go, so I will not include it in this brief comparison
  
 So far, the Glenn seems to be the most responsive to tube rolling.  This is great for those that love to have a certain tube pairing with each individual pair of headphones and for those that just enjoy being able to constantly tweak things.  
  
 I would never say that high quality gear is a 'waste of more $$$', I would only state that high quality gear that is cheaper than other high quality gear has a much better price to performance ratio... and if we are judging these amps based on that, then the Glenn OTL blows the other two amps out of the water.  I am able to receive a similar amount of satisfaction from the Glenn as I am from the other amps and for a far lower price.
  
 I also don't like judging any type of audio equipment by percentages of Sound Quality against one another because my definition of SQ may be vastly different from yours, not to mention that each piece of equipment imparts its own sound signature or flavor that is subjectively pleasing or not pleasing to the listener.  That said, each amp falls into what I would categorize as 'End-game amps', so if we must give a percentage to each one, the percentage is within the range you are hoping for.
  
 I don't know what the ZDSE or ZDS sounds like, but I hands down prefer the Stratus and Glenn as a headphone amp over the ZD original.  I find that the ZD makes a superb pre-amp but is simply too bright for my tastes when it comes to headphone listening.  The ZD most closely resembles a neutral SS amp with a huge soundstage width.  I generally prefer amps that lean towards the warm side rather than neutral or bright.  While none of the amps would be categorized as dark sounding, the Glenn is warmer than the Stratus, and the Stratus is warmer than the ZD.  
  
 The bottom line is no matter what choice you make you will have an excellent amp, but with its great reputation, many tube rolling choices, excellent sound quality, and low price, it would never be a mistake to buy a Glenn OTL.  Due to its reputation, value on the secondhand market is pretty much what a new one would cost (minus the wait time), so it's really a win-win situation whether its the amp for you or not since you could just sell it back out and have minimal to no losses.


----------



## listen4joy

thax for an answer, take your time for depth comparasion beetween them, by the way which of the 3 amps is the most musical?


----------



## Clayton SF

I just opened the KING CRIMSON 40th Anniversary Series CD, THRAK. The photo on the CD is of a broken tube. It looks like a 5Y3G.
  
 It is probably a spent tube from one of King Crimson's almighty amps. Kewel.


----------



## 2359glenn

Definitely a 5Y3


----------



## Neogeo333

Moving's a PIA.  Got most of the tubes in five boxes and now I have to deal with media.  500 movies mostly dvd and some blu ray.


----------



## 2359glenn

Do you have to ship all that stuff to NY?


----------



## Neogeo333

The media's going in cd sleeves, theres no place in the tiny apt to fit all that.  The tubes are staying in PR until I find a bigger place.  I don't know how I'm going to survive the initial phase but temporarily staying with the in laws it's giving nightmares already.


----------



## Groundzero

Recent addition to the setup. Something new for the OTL to feed off of.


----------



## RAZRr1275

groundzero said:


> Recent addition to the setup. Something new for the OTL to feed off of.


 
 How are you liking your Yggy? I'm looking at one to pair with my OTL when it comes around.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I forgot how good the OTL looked on that wood chassis.
  
 Jelly of your Yggy btw...... I'm pretty close to ordering mine.  I almost have enough pennies saved.


----------



## Groundzero

razrr1275 said:


> How are you liking your Yggy? I'm looking at one to pair with my OTL when it comes around.


 
 It's great so far. The change in sound signature is instantly noticeable. The biggest problem is the R2R sound messing with my impressions of my tubes. With the more natural sound I'm having to revisit various tube combos that I previously discounted for one reason or another. First on the list is the Tung Sol mouse ears that I've had forever and normally found way too analytic and bass lite for my taste. I'm also keeping an eye out for a B36 of some sort to try. My high end output tube collection is severely lacking. 
  


xcalibur255 said:


> I forgot how good the OTL looked on that wood chassis.
> 
> Jelly of your Yggy btw...... I'm pretty close to ordering mine.  I almost have enough pennies saved.


 
 I was originally going for a Gungnir, but while browsing one afternoon I saw that Yggy B-stock were available and jumped on it. Without the 10% off it would have been an impossibility at the moment. Emptied the piggy bank and then some, but worth it in my opinion as now I have no urge to upgrade in the future. This one must have been a customer return on the 15 day money-back guarantee as I can't find a mark on it anywhere.


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn, I hope you and Lucy are alright....this weather is playing havoc on many people. Lots of people without power.
  
 Hope everybody else here are doing fine also....so far so good here in central Ohio.
  
 I hope you all stay safe through this hard weather.
  
 Only an inch of snow here this morning, but pretty cold.
  
 I started the fire place this morning and rolled in my favorite tubes, brewed some coffee and am enjoying some blue's.


----------



## gibosi

Yes, central Ohio certainly seems to have dodged the bullet, just a few flurries here, cold but not exceptionally so (27F, about -3C), not at all bad for January. And likewise. on this cold Saturday morning, I am enjoying a hot cup of coffee with a gooey cinnamon bun and listening to the seductive voice of Alexis Cole, "as smooth and dark as the richest espresso.” (Jazz Times, November 2007).
  
 To those of you in the storms way, I sure hope you are staying safe and warm.


----------



## 2359glenn

We still have power for some reason. 149,000 with out power. Worm and toasty built a fire in the fireplace still snowing though.
 Let it snow!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

gibosi said:


> Yes, central Ohio certainly seems to have dodged the bullet, just a few flurries here, cold but not not exceptionally so (27F, about -3C), not at all bad for January. And likewise. on this cold Saturday morning, I am enjoying a hot cup of coffee with a gooey cinnamon bun and listening to the seductive voice of Alexis Cole, "as smooth and dark as the richest espresso.” (Jazz Times, November 2007).
> 
> To those of you in the storms way, I sure hope you are staying safe and warm.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do you and @whirlwind have the same OTL configuration?


----------



## gibosi

buttuglyjeff said:


> Do you and @whirlwind have the same OTL configuration?


 
  
 They are almost the same. Both amps have the 5998 and 6/12/25 switches and can also roll C3gs. However, Whirlwind's amp has the upgraded transformer.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Yes, central Ohio certainly seems to have dodged the bullet, just a few flurries here, cold but not not exceptionally so (27F, about -3C), not at all bad for January. And likewise. on this cold Saturday morning, I am enjoying a hot cup of coffee with a gooey cinnamon bun and listening to the seductive voice of Alexis Cole, "as smooth and dark as the richest espresso.” (Jazz Times, November 2007).
> 
> To those of you in the storms way, I sure hope you are staying safe and warm.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, Ken...compared to some places...central Ohio seems like spring right now  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That 5998 and B36 combo is killer, by the way!


----------



## Groundzero

Just secured a Marconi metal base B36 from a seller in the UK. Can't wait to try it. I picked up some 6336s too after they were brought up in here but I'm finding them a bit disappointing overall compared to the 5998/596 combo. Is there a certain rectifier or output they play better with than the 3DG4 and 6SN7?


----------



## 2359glenn

groundzero said:


> Just secured a Marconi metal base B36 from a seller in the UK. Can't wait to try it. I picked up some 6336s too after they were brought up in here but I'm finding them a bit disappointing overall compared to the 5998/596 combo. Is there a certain rectifier or output they play better with than the 3DG4 and 6SN7?


 

 The 6336 is mostly for low impedance phones.
 Does your amp have the 6.3>12.6>25.2 volt switch?  The B36 is a 12 volt tube.


----------



## Khragon

Got some headphones ready for Glenn 300B 
 The Master-11 drives them well, but I can see that all of these cans will benefit from a great tube amp.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

khragon said:


> Got some headphones ready for Glenn 300B
> The Master-11 drives them well, but I can see that all of these cans will benefit from a great tube amp.


 
  
 Oh, I'd really love to hear impressions with the HD800s (That is the "s" model correct?)


----------



## Groundzero

2359glenn said:


> The 6336 is mostly for low impedance phones.
> Does your amp have the 6.3>12.6>25.2 volt switch?  The B36 is a 12 volt tube.


 
 No it do not have a switch. The way it was being talked about I didn't know there was a version of the amp with one. Whups


----------



## Khragon

buttuglyjeff said:


> Oh, I'd really love to hear impressions with the HD800s (That is the "s" model correct?)


 

 Yeah, it's the HD800S.  Just received it from Meir Audio.  Took a month to get to the US.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Yeah, it's the HD800S.  Just received it from Meir Audio.  Took a month to get to the US.


 
  
 Mine took less than a week to get to New Zealand from Germany. Was that a month in transit or was there a delay in getting the stock to ship?


----------



## Khragon

A month in "transit", mostly in custom


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> A month in "transit", mostly in custom


 
  
 Ah - the delights of customs. I feel your pain. I was lucky with my HD800S - mine sailed right through.
  
 Not quite so lucky with my V281 amp - that is being held and I will need to cough up some significant shekels to get that one released (GST + duties).
  
 Some you win, some you lose...


----------



## Xcalibur255

groundzero said:


> No it do not have a switch. The way it was being talked about I didn't know there was a version of the amp with one. Whups


 
  
 You can have an adapter made to step up the voltage.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> groundzero said:
> 
> 
> > No it do not have a switch. The way it was being talked about I didn't know there was a version of the amp with one. Whups
> ...


 

 I might have one of these adapters lying around here 6.3 to 12.6


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn, I have rolled in the EL3N tubes and I am running them at 6.3 volt, like you said to do.
  
 Everything is working fine...to early to tell much about the sound, but early impressions are pretty dang good.....I will burn them in for a few days and will know more.


----------



## gibosi

Glenn,
  
 There is an adapter on eBay allowing the use of two 6BL7 in one 6AS7 socket.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-Gold-plated-6BL7-TO-6AS7-tube-converter-adapter-/191792226144
  
 What do you think?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Glenn,
> 
> There is an adapter on eBay allowing the use of two 6BL7 in one 6AS7 socket.
> 
> ...


 

 When I build the OTL to use 6BL7s it uses 3 per channel. But 2 mite work fine the 6BL7 is a good sounding tube.
 I told the people on the ELISE thread to try this and they had this adapter made.
  Just got the two EL3N to 6SN7 adapter today from the same place and it works fine.
 I would say try it if it works out the 6BL7 is a great sounding tube with HD800s.


----------



## Silent One

____
  
 Been really enjoying watching your builds emerge, Glenn. Especially when your ideas get wicked!


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> When I build the OTL to use 6BL7s it uses 3 per channel. But 2 mite work fine the 6BL7 is a good sounding tube.
> I told the people on the ELISE thread to try this and they had this adapter made.
> Just got the two EL3N to 6SN7 adapter today from the same place and it works fine.
> I would say try it if it works out the 6BL7 is a great sounding tube with HD800s.


 
  
 Will definitely give the 6BL7's a try. And of course I am very interesting in both your and Whirlwind's impressions of the EL3N. However, as I am currently up to my ears in tax returns, I have to put both of these on the back burner for now...


----------



## murphythecat

Im about to order the OTL. Have been reading about Lundhal transformer. what is the advantage going with the Lundahl transformer vs the stock ones?


----------



## gibosi

murphythecat said:


> Im about to order the OTL. Have been reading about Lundhal transformer. what is the advantage going with the Lundahl transformer vs the stock ones?


 
  
 In one word, quieter.


----------



## murphythecat

gibosi said:


> In one word, quieter.


 
 thats what I had read, so SQ is basically the same?


----------



## whirlwind

Yes, I think sound quality is basically the same, just quieter
  
 The OTL with the Lundhal uses PY500  rectifiers, you can roll other brands, but the basically all sound the same to me..and they are wonderful and cheap too.
  
 The OTL like gibosi has, you can roll 5 volt rectifiers, which there are many of.


----------



## Clayton SF

Flashback: May 2013!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Lower background noise should allow more plankton through (low level detail).  It's dependent on the whole signal chain of course.
  
 If you do not plan to spend a lot of time using the 5998 tube and are going to focus on 6080/6AS7 then the more expensive transformer probably isn't worth it.  The intention behind it was to get noise out of the circuit specifically to compensate for the higher gain a 5998 has (which amplifies that background noise more).


----------



## abvolt

clayton sf said:


> Flashback: May 2013!


 
  
 Oh yeah now that looks sweet..


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

clayton sf said:


> Flashback: May 2013!


 
  
 I like all the gear, but I especially like the tables/stands....


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Ah - the delights of customs. I feel your pain. I was lucky with my HD800S - mine sailed right through.
> 
> Not quite so lucky with my V281 amp - that is being held and I will need to cough up some significant shekels to get that one released (GST + duties).
> 
> Some you win, some you lose...



What's your guys thoughts on 800vs800s?


----------



## Clayton SF

Happy Sunday!
 Easy listening.


----------



## whirlwind

clayton sf said:


> Happy Sunday!
> Easy listening.


 
 Clayton, what tubes do you have in there ?
  
 I would love to spend just 48 hours in that listening room of yours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am enjoying some Howlin' Wolf & Muddy Waters tonight.....HD800 and GEC6080 & TSBGRP.....pretty good stuff.


----------



## parbaked

whirlwind said:


> I would love to spend just 48 hours in that listening room of yours


 
 Don't do it!
 You will put on 5 pounds and leave wanting 10 more amps and sous vide capability....


----------



## Clayton SF

whirlwind said:


> Clayton, what tubes do you have in there ?
> 
> I would love to spend just 48 hours in that listening room of yours
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sylvania 3DG4 rectifier.
 GE 6AS7GA power
 Zaltron 6SN7 (July 1958) driver
  
 I am listening to Miles Davis LIVE (vinyl, original release, original owner) on DT990 600Ω
 The Watch Wabbit keeps an eye on my amps just in case @parbaked decides to abscond with a few 'em.


----------



## Badas

clayton sf said:


> Sylvania 3DG4 rectifier.
> GE 6AS7GA power
> Zaltron 6SN7 (July 1958) driver
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol. I have a little elephant keeping an eye on my rig as well. Just to the right of the rectifier. I'm sure it makes a big sound difference as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It won't sound as good as yours as mine is a Woo not a Glenn (so maybe I don't need it as no one would want to take it). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like the GE 6AS7GA as well.


----------



## whirlwind

parbaked said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I would love to spend just 48 hours in that listening room of yours
> ...


 
 I believe every word you say.


----------



## Groundzero

Is it okay that my amp gets too hot to touch with the 6336s? I never noticed it getting quite this hot with 5998s. I don't have as much heat dissipation with a wood chassis.


----------



## 2359glenn

groundzero said:


> Is it okay that my amp gets too hot to touch with the 6336s? I never noticed it getting quite this hot with 5998s. I don't have as much heat dissipation with a wood chassis.


 

 You might want to get 2 octal socket savers to get those tubes up away from the chassis.
 The base of the 6336 gets very hot.


----------



## Neogeo333

Finally getting back to family and of course the 300b amp.
 Happy Chinese New Year!


----------



## Khragon

Nice photo of the amp, my amp is in progress now, very exciting!
  
  
 Happy Chinese New Year!


----------



## vc1187

@2359glenn,
  
 Can your original OTL without the C3Gs support 12SN7 tubes like the B36?


----------



## gibosi

vc1187 said:


> @2359glenn,
> 
> Can your original OTL without the C3Gs support 12SN7 tubes like the B36?


 
  
 It can if it is supplied with a 6/12/24 volt selector switch. For example, on the back panel, a 6AS7/5998 switch and a voltage selector switch.


----------



## vc1187

I see.
  
 I do not have any of those nice perks, unfortunately =/


----------



## Xcalibur255

vc1187 said:


> I see.
> 
> I do not have any of those nice perks, unfortunately =/


 
  
 An adapter designed to step up the voltage will still allow you to use these tubes.  Your situation is basically the same as Groundzero's.  The feature may not be built into the amp but the problem can still be overcome.


----------



## vc1187

xcalibur255 said:


> An adapter designed to step up the voltage will still allow you to use these tubes.  Your situation is basically the same as Groundzero's.  The feature may not be built into the amp but the problem can still be overcome.


 

 Ah ok, my bad, just went back and read through that exchange.


----------



## Xcalibur255

vc1187 said:


> Ah ok, my bad, just went back and read through that exchange.


 
  
 It wasn't my intention to chastise you for missing the earlier info.  I was just re-dispensing the information for you.


----------



## vc1187

No problem, certainly didn't take it that way.  As much as I love the Glenn OTL, rummaging through 854 pages is insane!
  
 I did vaguely remember reading through something like that before, so I'm glad that you pointed me in the correct direction


----------



## punit

vc1187
 I like your amp collection , one piece from each of the great HP tube amp makers. Glenn, Donald , Craig & Doc @ Bottlehead.


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> vc1187
> I like your amp collection , one piece from each of the great HP tube amp makers. Glenn, Donald , Craig & Doc @ Bottlehead.


 
 +1   very nice collection , I like it too


----------



## vc1187

punit said:


> vc1187
> I like your amp collection , one piece from each of the great HP tube amp makers. Glenn, Donald , Craig & Doc @ Bottlehead.




Thanks, but my collection is small compared to your massive horde of audio gear!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> groundzero said:
> 
> 
> > Is it okay that my amp gets too hot to touch with the 6336s? I never noticed it getting quite this hot with 5998s. I don't have as much heat dissipation with a wood chassis.
> ...


 
 I took this advice that Glenn gave to Groundzero and got myself a couple of socket savers for my amp....I plan on getting a Mr. speakers Ether headphone in a few months and I will be using my 6336 tubes much more often.


----------



## Luckbad

Who sells good socket savers?


----------



## 3083joe

luckbad said:


> Who sells good socket savers?



I like tubemonger but they r not cheap


----------



## Luckbad

3083joe said:


> I like tubemonger but they r not cheap


 
  
 Thanks much. I'll probably pick some up eventually.


----------



## Neogeo333

So what goes good on a snowy day after a movie with kids?  Pizza of course.  Now that I'm permanently in Brooklyn more of this pie for me.


----------



## Ultrainferno

So who's up for a meet in San Fran in April?


----------



## parbaked

That looks great George. I miss NY pizza!
 We haven't had pizza in a few weeks.
 Clayton did come over for meatballs and sausages on Saturday and he brought dessert!

 Clayton's pecan pie is outstanding!


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> So what goes good on a snowy day after a movie with kids?  Pizza of course.  Now that I'm permanently in Brooklyn more of this pie for me.


 
  
  


parbaked said:


> That looks great George. I miss NY pizza!
> We haven't had pizza in a few weeks.
> Clayton did come over for meatballs and sausages on Saturday and he brought dessert!
> 
> Clayton's pecan pie is outstanding!


 

 Ah back to food pictures you guys have ms drooling


----------



## Silent One

Food, people & music: Absolutely! 
When I lived in Brownsville (B'klyn), no matter what borough I'd find myself in, I'd find a "Plain slice...or two or more!"


----------



## magiccabbage

Is the glenn 300b 8, 10 , or 15 watts per Chanel into speakers?


----------



## Xcalibur255

8 watts is all you can get out of a single ended 300B without seriously abusing it.  There are new production tubes that can take more plate current and go a little higher but most of those technically aren't 300B tubes anymore but rather derivatives that should really be considered their own tube.


----------



## magiccabbage

xcalibur255 said:


> 8 watts is all you can get out of a single ended 300B without seriously abusing it.  There are new production tubes that can take more plate current and go a little higher but most of those technically aren't 300B tubes anymore but rather derivatives that should really be considered their own tube.


 
 thanks for answering that. 
  
 another question - has anyone had a glenn 300b made where the 300bs can be changed out for 2a3? I thought that someone had or was planning on getting an amp like this made by glenn but i cant be sure if i imagined it or not? 
  
 Would it be possible to do this in the 300b or would you need separate transformers or separate circuits?


----------



## 2359glenn

magiccabbage said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > 8 watts is all you can get out of a single ended 300B without seriously abusing it.  There are new production tubes that can take more plate current and go a little higher but most of those technically aren't 300B tubes anymore but rather derivatives that should really be considered their own tube.
> ...


 

 This is possible I would have done it in the past. But now I have no time or desire to do this it is a PITA to do it.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> This is possible I would have done it in the past. But now I have no time or desire to do this it is a PITA to do it.


 
 sorry I have no idea what PITA means


----------



## raybone0566

magiccabbage said:


> sorry I have no idea what PITA means


Pain in the ass


----------



## parbaked

magiccabbage said:


> sorry I have no idea what PITA means


 

 PITA = Pain In The Ass
  
 If you really want an amp that can use 300B and 2A3/45, Tektron Italia make one.
 It has a 3 position switch to adjust the filament voltage to 2.5V, 5V or 7.5V so one can use 2A3/45, 300B or even 50 & VT-52 tubes.
 Stavros has one that I think is modified for headphones. I had an early version without the switch so you had to rewire it to change tube types.
 http://www.tektron-italia.com/tubeamplifiers/tubeamp.shtml


----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn said:


> This is possible I would have done it in the past. But now I have no time or desire to do this it is a PITA to do it.


 
 If Glenn can make one now, it'll be a "wa234" killer.  Way cheaper too.
  
 Constant current source for plate voltage and constant voltage regulator use for filament, it should be straight foward...?  The only problem is OPT, no way to optimize for all tubes.


----------



## vc1187

Found an amazing combination of tubes for the Glenn OTL paired with the HD800.  GEC U52 rectifier, GEC 6080 power tubes, and tung sol 6SN7GTB.
  
 I guess the weakest link (aka cheapest tube) would be the Tung sol 6SN7GTB.  While this combination is phenomenal, can anyone recommend a tube that may be a better substitute for this one?  I don't have a 12SN7 dial, so unless I can nab an adapter, I'm stuck with 6SN7s.
  
 I tried the TS 5998 power tubes and 10 out of 10 times, I prefer the sound of the 6080s.  Of course, I have the original amp that does not have the selector switch for 6AS7 vs 5998.
  
 As far as tube rolling goes, this amp continues to be the most versatile tube amp I have ever owned.  It certainly scales with high end rectifiers, like the U52.


----------



## gibosi

vc1187 said:


> I guess the weakest link (aka cheapest tube) would be the Tung sol 6SN7GTB.  While this combination is phenomenal, can anyone recommend a tube that may be a better substitute for this one?  I don't have a 12SN7 dial, so unless I can nab an adapter, I'm stuck with 6SN7s.


 
  
 If you haven't already done so, I would encourage you to check out the 6SN7 Reference thread and the 6SN7 Identification thread. There is a good bit of information in these threads which might help you narrow down which tubes are worth trying. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/209782/the-6sn7-identification-guide
  
 My default configuration is the Cossor 53KU and GEC 6AS7 paired with a modded HD700. In this setup, I really like the small-bottle Sylvania 6SN7W and the National Union 6F8G. And I should note that many with the HD800 really like the Tung-Sol round-plate, black glass 6SN7GT or 6F8G.
  
 I should add that there are lots of other great tubes out there. The early (1940's to early 1950's) Hytron, Fivre, Brimar, Raytheon and National Union 6SN7GT have many fans. Generally speaking, I would encourage you to avoid the later GTA and GTB production in favor of the earlier GT.
  
 Cheers


----------



## whirlwind

vc1187 said:


> Found an amazing combination of tubes for the Glenn OTL paired with the HD800.  GEC U52 rectifier, GEC 6080 power tubes, and tung sol 6SN7GTB.
> 
> I guess the weakest link (aka cheapest tube) would be the Tung sol 6SN7GTB.  While this combination is phenomenal, can anyone recommend a tube that may be a better substitute for this one?  I don't have a 12SN7 dial, so unless I can nab an adapter, I'm stuck with 6SN7s.
> 
> ...


 
 I agree, the GEC 6080 is wonderful....like gibosi already has mentioned the Tung Sol round plate black glass 6F8G is great....you will need an adapter though, but most will say a 6SN7 TSRPBG will sound the same.
  
 For a nice sound and a fairly cheap tube, I also like the Tung Sol mouse ear 6SN7, at first when I heard it, I really did not appreciate it, then the more I listened , I became a fan.
  
 Mullard ECC31 is also very nice, but you need an adapter for that also.
  
 For what it is worth, my amp does not use 5 volt rectifiers, so i am not sure how this may change the sound, so YMMV


----------



## gibosi

Also, if you should decide to try the 6F8G and purchase an adapter, I suggest that instead you purchase a BL63/VR102 adapter. It is identical except for the fact that the grid wire is longer in order to accommodate the taller BL63/VR102, but it will also work perfectly with the 6F8G. Some call the BL63 a 6F8G on steroids. lol. A very nice tube.


----------



## vc1187

Thanks for all of the suggestions guys!
 I have checked out the reference thread, but I figured it would be best to get knowledge from Glenn OTL owners themselves.
  
@whirlwind or @gibosi , aside from the large price difference, can you describe some differences in the GEC 6080 and 6AS7G?
 I've become a GEC fanboy after experimenting and hearing the magic for myself.  The difference that these tubes make really is not subtle at all.


----------



## magiccabbage

gibosi said:


> Also, if you should decide to try the 6F8G and purchase an adapter, I suggest that instead you purchase a BL63/VR102 adapter. It is identical except for the fact that the grid wire is longer in order to accommodate the taller BL63/VR102, but it will also work perfectly with the 6F8G. Some call the BL63 a 6F8G on steroids. lol. A very nice tube.


 
 would it work in the WA5 - whats it sound like?


----------



## Xcalibur255

sko0bydoo said:


> If Glenn can make one now, it'll be a "wa234" killer.  Way cheaper too.
> 
> Constant current source for plate voltage and constant voltage regulator use for filament, it should be straight foward...?  The only problem is OPT, no way to optimize for all tubes.


 

 There was talk of doing a WA234 killer at one point.  Not sure if it was buyer interest or not, but I can say that a lot of folks tend to underestimate the enormous amount of work it takes for a single person to build one of these from scratch.  I don't blame Glenn one bit for wanting to get back to making simpler designs. 
  
 I keep hoping somebody will bite on my single gain stage design idea.  It would be a fairly straightforward and simple amp all things considered.  I would bite myself but I just can't justify getting another amp, 3 is already more than enough.


----------



## Khragon

I've never seen WA234 with anything except 300Bs, so I guess it still optimized for 300B tubes.  No point paying for the extra capabilities really.


----------



## gibosi

magiccabbage said:


> would it work in the WA5 - whats it sound like?


 
  
 I haven't listened to the BL63 in a long time. However, it was manufactured by GEC, and as best as I can remember, it has that characteristic GEC sound, airy and detailed, with very good bass.
  
 And I seriously doubt it would be safe to use in the WA5. The BL63 heaters draw about 1.2 Amps, about twice the current of a 6SN7. So I would not suggest you try it without checking with Woo first. However, in a Glenn OTL it is perfectly fine.


----------



## whirlwind

magiccabbage said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Also, if you should decide to try the 6F8G and purchase an adapter, I suggest that instead you purchase a BL63/VR102 adapter. It is identical except for the fact that the grid wire is longer in order to accommodate the taller BL63/VR102, but it will also work perfectly with the 6F8G. Some call the BL63 a 6F8G on steroids. lol. A very nice tube.
> ...


 
 When I got my amp, I forgot to ask Glenn to make my adapter with a longer wire, so I could accommodate both tubes.


----------



## punit

xcalibur255 said:


> I would bite myself but I just can't justify getting another amp, 3 is already more than enough.


 
 Just curious, Which 3 do you have ?


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> I haven't listened to the BL63 in a long time. However, it was manufactured by GEC, and as best as I can remember, it has that characteristic GEC sound, airy and detailed, with very good bass.
> 
> And I seriously doubt it would be safe to use in the WA5. The BL63 heaters draw about 1.2 Amps, about twice the current of a 6SN7. So I would not suggest you try it without checking with Woo first. However, in a Glenn OTL it is perfectly fine.


 

 I think the WA22 can use the bl63 since it can handle the ecc31 which uses 1 amp?


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> I think the WA22 can use the bl63 since it can handle the ecc31 which uses 1 amp?


 
  
 I would still recommend that you contact Woo. The ECC31/ECC32 is rated at 0.95 amps and it appears that many headphone amps using the 6SN7 as a driver can safely handle it. Designers typically expect that users will want to use the ECC32. But 1.0 amps may well be the maximum safe heater current. The BL63 is not widely known and most designers would not expect that their users would want to roll this tube. I might speculate that many designers don't even know this tube exists. Further, checking the BL63 specificiations more closely, it is actually rated at 1.27 or 1.3 amps. So again, I would not encourage anyone to use this tube without checking with the manufacturer first.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> I would still recommend that you contact Woo. The ECC31/ECC32 is rated at 0.95 amps and it appears that many headphone amps using the 6SN7 as a driver can safely handle it. Designers typically expect that users will want to use the ECC32. But 1.0 amps may well be the maximum safe heater current. The BL63 is not widely known and most designers would not expect that their users would want to roll this tube. I might speculate that many designers don't even know this tube exists. Further, checking the BL63 specificiations more closely, it is actually rated at 1.27 or 1.3 amps. So again, I would not encourage anyone to use this tube without checking with the manufacturer first.


 

 Agreed emailing Woo would be wise.


----------



## MIKELAP

jhljhl said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > I would still recommend that you contact Woo. The ECC31/ECC32 is rated at 0.95 amps and it appears that many headphone amps using the 6SN7 as a driver can safely handle it. Designers typically expect that users will want to use the ECC32. But 1.0 amps may well be the maximum safe heater current. The BL63 is not widely known and most designers would not expect that their users would want to roll this tube. I might speculate that many designers don't even know this tube exists. Further, checking the BL63 specificiations more closely, it is actually rated at 1.27 or 1.3 amps. So again, I would not encourage anyone to use this tube without checking with the manufacturer first.
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

punit said:


> Just curious, Which 3 do you have ?


 
  
 Glenn made 45 DHT, Glenn made OTL, Dragon Inspire IHA-1.  I greatly enjoy all 3, I can't see myself splitting time among even more amps, so no more buying for me.  Which is a shame because there are designs out there I'd really love to try.


----------



## Xcalibur255

mikelap said:


>


 

 That's pretty interesting information.  The Woo amps used to be limited to 3A on rectifiers for sure, I wonder when they changed their power transformers to allow for more overhead.  That opens them up to some uncommon tubes like the 5AW4 and 5AU4 that we've been using here with Glenn OTLs.  I'm guessing they went up to 1A on the drivers to accommodate the ECC32.


----------



## magiccabbage

xcalibur255 said:


> I'm guessing they went up to 1A on the drivers to accommodate the ECC32.


 
 Wonder if I can use that tube on my WA5?


----------



## 3083joe

magiccabbage said:


> Wonder if I can use that tube on my WA5?



The ecc32, yes


----------



## gibosi

Sorry for the crappy picture...  Four early 1950's Sylvania flat-plate 6BL7's, two per side. Sounds great, but then doesn't everything sound great in Glenn? 
  
 Will let them cook for awhile and then swap out the rectifier and driver with tubes I like better....


----------



## JoelT

gibosi said:


> Sorry for the crappy picture...  Four early 1950's Sylvania flat-plate 6BL7's, two per side. Sounds great, but then doesn't everything sound great in Glenn?


 
 Pretty cool. Looking forward to your impressions. What are the dimensions of the adapters? Just curious as my output tubes are offset towards the back of the unit.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Sorry for the crappy picture...  Four early 1950's Sylvania flat-plate 6BL7's, two per side. Sounds great, but then doesn't everything sound great in Glenn?
> 
> Will let them cook for awhile and then swap out the rectifier and driver with tubes I like better....


 
 I like the flat plate Sylvania the best of all 6BL7s.
 Does 2 of them sound better then 6AS7s??
 I know that 3 of them in amps I made to take them sound better then any 6AS7 including the GEC.


----------



## 2359glenn

Try 6BX7s too for a different flavor of sound


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Try 6BX7s too for a different flavor of sound


 
  
 Seconded.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Try 6BX7s too for a different flavor of sound
> ...


 

 Tyrell can you try this adapter in the small chassis?
 One 6BL7 isn't enough power really in this amp.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Sorry for the crappy picture...  Four early 1950's Sylvania flat-plate 6BL7's, two per side. Sounds great, but then doesn't everything sound great in Glenn?
> 
> Will let them cook for awhile and then swap out the rectifier and driver with tubes I like better....


 
 Very nice, Ken


----------



## vc1187

That sure is a beautiful sight for a tube addict, like myself


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Tyrell can you try this adapter in the small chassis?
> One 6BL7 isn't enough power really in this amp.


 
  
 At the moment I don't have enough of either tube, just a pair a piece.
  
 I tried directly subbing 6BL7 in the 6AS7 sockets once, I remember us discussing it quite a while back.  Definitely didn't have enough drive, but I didn't have my 600 ohm DT880s at the time either it probably would have worked with them.
  
 I moved my OTL over to my TV setup and have it hooked up to the McIntosh now actually.  Been using it to watch movies late at night and it sounds awfully good in that capacity.  This change is what finally prodded me into ordering an Yggdrasil for the PC setup, hearing one of my amps on the McIntosh made it clear just how long in the tooth my VDA-2 DAC has become.


----------



## gibosi

joelt said:


> Pretty cool. Looking forward to your impressions. What are the dimensions of the adapters? Just curious as my output tubes are offset towards the back of the unit.


 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/191792226144
  
 They are about 35mm (1 1/3 inch) by 85mm (3 1/3 inch). Further, they can be rotated a bit if necessary as seen here in JazzVinyl's Elise:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/3285#post_12318343


----------



## JoelT

^^^Excellent. Just placed an order for a couple adapters to try out for fun. Thanks for the info!


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I like the flat plate Sylvania the best of all 6BL7s.
> Does 2 of them sound better then 6AS7s??
> I know that 3 of them in amps I made to take them sound better then any 6AS7 including the GEC.


 
  
 Am I correct in thinking that if someone wanted to run low-Z cans (in your OTL), one could use these adapters to run four 6AS7? Two per side? In terms of heater current, no different than running a pair of 6336, yes?


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I like the flat plate Sylvania the best of all 6BL7s.
> ...


 
 Ken, wait for Glenn's to respond to make sure.....but I am pretty sure told me that I could do this.....very interesting too, could be a great option for low z cans.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Am I correct in thinking that if someone wanted to run low-Z cans (in your OTL), one could use these adapters to run four 6AS7? Two per side? In terms of heater current, no different than running a pair of 6336, yes?




I am not sure if two ST bottle 6AS7G's can fit on this adapter (might not have enough spacing, between the octal sockets?). 

 But for sure, a couple of 6AS7GA's could.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I like the flat plate Sylvania the best of all 6BL7s.
> ...


 

 Yes and good 6AS7s might sound better then the 6336 if you can afford them 4 GECs


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Am I correct in thinking that if someone wanted to run low-Z cans (in your OTL), one could use these adapters to run four 6AS7? Two per side? In terms of heater current, no different than running a pair of 6336, yes?


 
  
 The 5998 achieves the same reduction in output Z without the added complication.  It has the added benefit of allowing the amp to run a lot cooler too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

What is the lowest recommended impedance for your cans, when using a Glenn OTL amp?


----------



## gibosi

This is all good advice. As I do all my listening through a pair of 150 ohm Senn 700s, my question was more for the good of the order than for myself. But for sure, I bet a pair of HE-6 would sound pretty good driven by a quad of GEC 6AS7. lol. 
  
 In my opinion, four 6BL7s seem to be more than up to driving my 700s. Bass is reproduced with very good power and control, and I think it is very safe to say that owners of the HD 800, Beyer TI and similar reasonably efficient high-Z cans would be more than happy with this configuration.
  
 For those who have not experienced the sound of 6BL7s as output tubes, this review of one of Glenn's 6-tube units might be very helpful, especially the section on tube rolling.
  
 http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/42754587-building-a-reference-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier
  
 Like that reviewer, I find the sound of the 6BL7s to be very good but also very different than that of the 6AS7. And like that reviewer, I think I am going to need some time to "get" this sound. That said, I am currently using the GEC B36 as a driver, and I don't think I have ever heard this tube sound this good. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> This is all good advice. As I do all my listening through a pair of 150 ohm Senn 700s, my question was more for the good of the order than for myself. But for sure, I bet a pair of HE-6 would sound pretty good driven by a quad of GEC 6AS7. lol.
> 
> In my opinion, four 6BL7s seem to be more than up to driving my 700s. Bass is reproduced with very good power and control, and I think it is very safe to say that owners of the HD 800, Beyer TI and similar reasonably efficient high-Z cans would be more than happy with this configuration.
> 
> ...


 
 Man, I am trying to save up for an ether to use with this amp....but really want to hear the HD800 with the 6BL7 now  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I need a second job


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/42754587-building-a-reference-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier
> 
> Like that reviewer, I find the sound of the 6BL7s to be very good but also very different than that of the 6AS7. And like that reviewer, I think I am going to need some time to "get" this sound. That said, I am currently using the GEC B36 as a driver, and I don't think I have ever heard this tube sound this good.
> 
> Cheers




I am using the quad 6BL7's as powers in my Elise amp, on Glenn's suggestion. I agree fully with the reviewer on Tweak-Fi in his sound description. 

I also noted that not only is the bass deeper yet more articulated, but it is apparent to me that careful listeners will also discover that the multi 6BL7's reveal more details in both mids and highs. Yes, it's different from what you are used to via 6AS7G as powers. But listen carefully to works that you know very well, and you will hear these subtle details that seem to be barely hunted at, via 6AS7's. 

My 6BL7 quad are fine for my 300 ohm SENN 580's but I do think that my 600 ohm Beyers would like 3x 6BL7's per 6AS7 socket as in Glenn's amp. They don't quite have the drive to bring that bass authority I am getting with the Senns @ 300 ohms. 

I am sold on multi 6BL7's as powers....for certain it elevated my amp beyond what is possible with 6AS7 as powers, in my opinion....

As gibosi always says....my ears, my gear YMMV....

Cheers to all....


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn, if I were to ask someone to make an adapter for my amp to use 3x 6BL7....what info would they need.....what is the current capacity of my amp ?


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Glenn, if I were to ask someone to make an adapter for my amp to use 3x 6BL7....what info would they need.....what is the current capacity of my amp ?


 
  
 Two 6336 draw 10 amps, four 6AS7 draw 10 amps and six 6BL7 draw 9 amps (6 X 1.5). So the current capacity of your amp is more than enough.
  
 Very crudely, I suspect that you could purchase 4 of the adapters I have and simply plug adapters into adapters, piggy-back if you will, to provide two units with three sockets each. However, it may be necessary to put something underneath the heavy end of the piggy-backed adapter (with two tubes) in order to give it some support.
  
 Optimally, I think it would be best to have something that was a good bit more rigid and designed to fit nicely into the existing space on top of your amp....


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Glenn, if I were to ask someone to make an adapter for my amp to use 3x 6BL7....what info would they need.....what is the current capacity of my amp ?


 

 You have enough power 13amps + so you have more then enough power.
 We just had tornado's go through still have power for some reason most people around us don't


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, if I were to ask someone to make an adapter for my amp to use 3x 6BL7....what info would they need.....what is the current capacity of my amp ?
> ...


 
 I was thinking of asking the person who made your adapters, to make an adapter for the Glenn that would use 3X 6BL7....I think they may make it....so basically it could be just like your adapter....but with 3 sockets...correct....my amp would handle that fine.....I think 13 amps is my capacity maybe....I wonder if you could still use 4 6AS7 in this adapter also....buy just leaving one socket empty ?
  
 This is pretty tempting Ken


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, if I were to ask someone to make an adapter for my amp to use 3x 6BL7....what info would they need.....what is the current capacity of my amp ?
> ...


 
 Thanks Glenn...we must have posted at the same time....lol
  
 Holy crap....did the tornado's tear stuff up at your place ?
  
 Could I still use 4 6AS7 in these adapters if I wanted to ?


----------



## gibosi

Here is one for the Elise:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6-6BL7-TO-2-6AS7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/191812681690
  
 You would just need to come up with a design to build one single adapter that plugs into both 6AS7 sockets. I suspect that our driver sockets get in the way of a straight line adapter, so you would have to design one with a bit of an angle to bypass the drivers. On the other hand, you would not need the connections to an external heater.
  
 "If there is a will there is always a way."


----------



## whirlwind

I thought about asking the seller who made the one like yours to make one like that, but to use three tubes instead of two.


----------



## gibosi

In my opinion, that would probably be the best solution, two adapters, each with three tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> In my opinion, that would probably be the best solution, two adapters, each with three tubes.




I had to ask really politely, to get Mrs Xu Ling to build the "Bridge Style" 3x 6BL7 adapter for the Elise amp.
She wanted to produce 2 separate "3x 6BL7's per 6AS7 socket and rotatable" as per the 2x adapters you have, gibosi.

She knew the separate rotatable variety, would be sell-able in more styles of amps. 

I'm sure she will be agreeable to the "3x 6BL7's per 6AS7 socket and rotatable" request. 

No need for external heat, is an important change, to make sure you communicate clearly, to her.

Cheers!


----------



## gibosi

As I am finding that four 6BL7's sound great, I am not inclined to go for six. However, for those of you who wish to use the 6BL7 with lower-Z cans, two three-tube adapters just might make more sense.
  
 And another tube that sounds pretty terrific with the 6BL7s, a 12 volt FDD20.


----------



## 3083joe

Awesome. 
Anyone try them in wa22?


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> As I am finding that four 6BL7's sound great, I am not inclined to go for six. However, for those of you who wish to use the 6BL7 with lower-Z cans, two three-tube adapters just might make more sense.
> 
> And another tube that sounds pretty terrific with the 6BL7s, a 12 volt FDD20.




I love the FDD20, too. 

Must say I am jealous that your Glenn does not need external power to run the 4x 6BL7, could also power 6x 6BL7's and, ability to run a 12 volt driver at the same time... 

That's very nice, these are well thought out, and useful features. 

Enjoy!





.


----------



## whirlwind

Those flat plate 6BL7's look nice in there, Ken.....do they all have rectangle top getter ?


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Those flat plate 6BL7's look nice in there, Ken.....do they all have rectangle top getter ?


 
  
 Yes, these have rectangular getters. I wasn't able to find a quad, so purchased two pairs. I have two manufactured in 1951 and two in 1953, so I put one of each on each adapter. Probably not necessary, but I felt that in this way, the two channels are somewhat matched.
  
 Edit: Generally, halo getters began to appear around 1960, plus or minus a few years. As best I can tell, the flat-plate Sylvania 6BL7GT was manufactured for only a few years, in the early 1950's, so all of them will have rectangular getters.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Those flat plate 6BL7's look nice in there, Ken.....do they all have rectangle top getter ?
> ...


 
 Thanks for that info, Ken.
  
 I think the e-bay seller is going to make the adapters to house three 6BL7  on a 6AS7 socket and it will rotate just like yours.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> Yes, these have rectangular getters. I wasn't able to find a quad, so purchased two pairs. I have two manufactured in 1951 and two in 1953, so I put one of each on each adapter. Probably not necessary, but I felt that in this way, the two channels are somewhat matched.
> 
> Edit: Generally, halo getters began to appear around 1960, plus or minus a few years. As best I can tell, the flat-plate Sylvania 6BL7GT was manufactured for only a few years, in the early 1950's, so all of them will have rectangular getters.


 
  
  
 Can you also use this dual c3g to 6sn7 adapter? 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-Dual-C3G-TO-6SN7-B65-5692-tube-converter-adapter-6-3V-/191778618216?hash=item2ca6e57b68:g:~UEAAOSwwPhWkRq7
 I think it is from the same seller.  I'd guess it can be used for most 6sn7 amps
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I always wanted to try this. (I mean the spoiler insert option too. lol)


----------



## gibosi

It depends on your amp....  I think this adapter assumes you have only one 6SN7, as it routes one triode-strapped C3g through each section of the 6SN7. So if your amp has two 6SN7 drivers, I don't think this would work....


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> It depends on your amp....  I think this adapter assumes you have only one 6SN7, as it routes one triode-strapped C3g through each section of the 6SN7. So if your amp has two 6SN7 drivers, I don't think this would work....


 

 It should work in the Glenn OTL then?  And in other single input amps.


----------



## gibosi

I would think that it would work in most amps with a single 6SN7 driver, but as I am not an electrical engineer, please don't quote me.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> I would think that it would work in most amps with a single 6SN7 driver, but as I am not an electrical engineer, please don't quote me.


 

 Will you give it a go in your otl?


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> Will you give it a go in your otl?


 
  
 But my amp already has two sockets configured for C3g! 
  

  
 Also, according to Glenn, the bias values for a 6SN7 are significantly different than those for a C3g. So while that adapter will probably work fine electrically, there is no guarantee that the C3g will sound good....


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> But my amp already has two sockets configured for C3g!
> 
> 
> 
> Also, according to Glenn, the bias values for a 6SN7 are significantly different than those for a C3g. So while that adapter will probably work fine electrically, there is no guarantee that the C3g will sound good....


 

 I can see that I think because there is a drop in volume in the wa5le with glenn's adapter still sound's good though.  The c3g transparency means you can really hear the power tubes how do they sound with gec gsa7?


----------



## gibosi

It is my understanding that Glenn tweaks his adapters to help the C3g to be "happier" in a 6SN7 socket. I sincerely doubt that the Chinese adapter has these tweaks. The folks over in the Elise thread tried to make their own tweaked adapters, with some help from Glenn (however, he didn't share all his secrets!), but even so, a number of Elise owners still felt that the C3g sounded a bit metallic and peaky...
  
 As to how they sound with different power tubes, I think this really comes down to your headphones and preferred sound signature. In my experience, the C3g sounds great with the slotted Bendix 6080, the 5998 and the GEC 6AS7, But of course, it sounds a bit different with each of these tubes....
  
 And I fully intend to roll the C3g with the Sylvania 6BL7 in the near future. But I should say that some prefer the later Sylvania 6BL7 with the cross-shaped plates over the flat plates that I have. And others really like the RCA 6BL7 with side getters. Eventually, I will get around to trying them too. So, I still do not know which 6BL7 I prefer.... Or the 6BX7....  lol. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## Rossliew

is the C3G rollable into any of Glenn's OTL amps in place of the 6SN7 ( wih adapter of course)?

If so, anyone have a spare Glenn adapter to sell?


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> is the C3G rollable into any of Glenn's OTL amps in place of the 6SN7 ( wih adapter of course)?
> 
> If so, anyone have a spare Glenn adapter to sell?


 

 Yes but not optimally and you will have that dual adapter that puts two C3gs into the 6sn7 socket.
 The cathode resistor for the 6SN7 is to high for the C3g. It will work but I am not sure how it will
 sound maybe OK.
  
 Glenn


----------



## Xcalibur255

> Originally Posted by *gibosi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> And I fully intend to roll the C3g with the Sylvania 6BL7 in the near future. But I should say that some prefer the later Sylvania 6BL7 with the cross-shaped plates over the flat plates that I have. And others really like the RCA 6BL7 with side getters. Eventually, I will get around to trying them too. So, I still do not know which 6BL7 I prefer.... Or the 6BX7....  lol.
> 
> Cheers


 
 In my experience the flat plate was a bit more resolving but had a slightly more nasal tone.  I'd like to hear your impression of the 6BX7 gibosi, assuming you are planning to try it.  I think it's a better tube than the 6BL7 in the application I have heard it in.  Really, really great tone and more nuanced sounding.  Dunno how it's been flying under the radar all this time.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Yes but not optimally and you will have that dual adapter that puts two C3gs into the 6sn7 socket.
> The cathode resistor for the 6SN7 is to high for the C3g. It will work but I am not sure how it will
> sound maybe OK.
> 
> Glenn




I see then i will just stick to the 6sn7s then. Glenn do you have some spare time to build some adapters? Was thinking for use of 6f8g..


----------



## gibosi

If Glenn doesn't have time, there are a number of 6F8G adapters on eBay. However, I would suggest that instead, you purchase this adapter:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-gold-plated-GEC-BL63-TO-6SN7-tube-converter-adapter-/191496579437
  
 This adapter has a longer wire and will allow you to roll 6F8G, 6C8G plus the BL63/VR102.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> In my experience the flat plate was a bit more resolving but had a slightly more nasal tone.  I'd like to hear your impression of the 6BX7 gibosi, assuming you are planning to try it.  I think it's a better tube than the 6BL7 in the application I have heard it in.  Really, really great tone and more nuanced sounding.  Dunno how it's been flying under the radar all this time.


 
  
 They are cheap, so sure. Just visited eBay, and soon, I should have four Sylvania 6BX7 to try.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> They are cheap, so sure. Just visited eBay, and soon, I should have four Sylvania 6BX7 to try.




Now that you have had multi 6BL7 for a few days, g....

What do you think?

Ready to say a few word comparing multi 6BL7 to 6AS7?

Appreciate...


----------



## gibosi

jazzvinyl said:


> Now that you have had multi 6BL7 for a few days, g....
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Describing sound is not something I do well. But what I can say is that I agree with you and the reviewer on Tweak-Fi. The bass seems deeper with better detail, and occasionally, when listening to songs I know well, I am startled to hear small unremembered details. However, I do think the sound stage seems to be a bit narrower, and as a result, imaging seems a little less precise to my mind. But still, these 6BL7s project a very musical and enjoyable sound. As I mentioned earlier, to my ears, a B36 (a 12 volt GEC B65) sounds better with the 6BL7s than it has with any 6AS7G.
  
 With the Sylvania 6BL7's strong bass emphasis and the rather recessed mids and highs characteristic (in my experience) of the Sylvania house sound, I find that brighter drivers, such as the B36 and the FDD20 sound better than more laid back drivers, such as Mullard ECC31. And following this line of reasoning, I expect the C3g will also sound very good with the 6BL7.... Maybe....
  
 But again, I think it is going to take a good bit of time with some of my favorite drivers to really understand what I am hearing... with my rather old and decrepit ears...


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> If Glenn doesn't have time, there are a number of 6F8G adapters on eBay. However, I would suggest that instead, you purchase this adapter:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-gold-plated-GEC-BL63-TO-6SN7-tube-converter-adapter-/191496579437
> 
> This adapter has a longer wire and will allow you to roll 6F8G, 6C8G plus the BL63/VR102.




Many thanks for the link, G...btw, is the 6BX7 interchangeable with the 6BL7?


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Many thanks for the link, G...btw, is the 6BX7 interchangeable with the 6BL7?


 
  
 They are very similar electrically. Both draw 1.5 amps for the heaters. So yes, if you buy a 6BL7 to 6AS7 adapter, you can use 6BX7s in place of 6BL7s.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Describing sound is not something I do well. But what I can say is that I agree with you and the reviewer on Tweak-Fi. The bass seems deeper with better detail, and occasionally, when listening to songs I know well, I am startled to hear small unremembered details. However, I do think the sound stage seems to be a bit narrower, and as a result, imaging seems a little less precise to my mind. But still, these 6BL7s project a very musical and enjoyable sound. As I mentioned earlier, to my ears, a B36 (a 12 volt GEC B65) sounds better with the 6BL7s than it has with any 6AS7G.
> 
> With the Sylvania 6BL7's strong bass emphasis and the rather recessed mids and highs characteristic (in my experience) of the Sylvania house sound, I find that brighter drivers, such as the B36 and the FDD20 sound better than more laid back drivers, such as Mullard ECC31. And following this line of reasoning, I expect the C3g will also sound very good with the 6BL7.... Maybe....
> 
> But again, I think it is going to take a good bit of time with some of my favorite drivers to really understand what I am hearing... with my rather old and decrepit ears...





Thanks g,

I think you did a great job of describing what you were hearing. 

I was pretty alarmed at the details fetched in mids and to a lesser extend the highs when using the 6BL7's as powers. 
A lot of recordings that I thought I knew intimately, were presented with a new energy and vigor. Your word "startled" is a good way to describe what happens. 

I have really enjoyed my amp clad with multiple 6BL7's. I so glad that I was made aware of this tubes' virtues. 

I have seven 6BX7's inbound, so will get to compare these to the multi 6BL7's and see where my preference falls. 

I also wonder if, in a Glenn amp that is designed for 6BL7 as powers, if he uses a different bias value than he would for an amp that specified 6AS7 as the powers?

Appreciate your take on 6BL7, g...

Cheers




.


----------



## Xcalibur255

rossliew said:


> Many thanks for the link, G...btw, is the 6BX7 interchangeable with the 6BL7?


 
  
 Almost the same tube, though they sound a bit different.  It should be safe to use anywhere a 6BL7 is safe.  The most notable electrical difference is lower gain.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks , Xc.

Now would the attached picture of a dual C3Gnto 6SN7 adapter work?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think it would be safe to try if only because the heater current is the same, but if it were me personally I wouldn't go for it.  The reason being this appears to be a passive adapter.  The bias requirements for a C3g are substantially different from a 6SN7, I'm not convinced it would sound very good.  A lot of the electrical properties of a C3g are pretty far off from a 6SN7 actually.
  
 Of course in the spirit of adventure there's no harm in trying it.   
  
 I have to admit though.......A little piece of me does kind of cringe when I see people using C3g tubes in amps that weren't designed for them.  They're incredible tubes, and represent the pinnacle of tube technology in some aspects.  Given the very finite supply they deserve to be used where they will acquit themselves best.  Hopefully that doesn't sound snobby, it definitely isn't meant that way.


----------



## Rossliew

xcalibur255 said:


> I think it would be safe to try if only because the heater current is the same, but if it were me personally I wouldn't go for it.  The reason being this appears to be a passive adapter.  The bias requirements for a C3g are substantially different from a 6SN7, I'm not convinced it would sound very good.  A lot of the electrical properties of a C3g are pretty far off from a 6SN7 actually.
> 
> Of course in the spirit of adventure there's no harm in trying it.
> 
> I have to admit though.......A little piece of me does kind of cringe when I see people using C3g tubes in amps that weren't designed for them.  They're incredible tubes, and represent the pinnacle of tube technology in some aspects.  Given the very finite supply they deserve to be used where they will acquit themselves best.  Hopefully that doesn't sound snobby, it definitely isn't meant that way.




Not snobbish as all  As I have a pair of C3Gs which is hardly used, it would be a waste to leave them lying around if I could instead use them in the OTL amp. I suppose no harm just getting the adapter and trying them out. Thanks for the advice too


----------



## Rossliew

Btw what's the minimum time to let the tubes cool/caps to be discharged before rolling another tube in? Have heard of a person killing his Glenn amp due to tube rolling..


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> Btw what's the minimum time to let the tubes cool/caps to be discharged before rolling another tube in? Have heard of a person killing his Glenn amp due to tube rolling..


 
 I am not positive what the minimum time is...I usually wait about 20 minutes or so.......but mostly only roll when my amp has been off for a long time......before I turn it on and listen for another session, I will roll in new tubes.
  
 I do not turn it on and off a lot during my listening to roll tubes very often.
  
 I have just started to kind of take notes on my different tube combos, so I have been leaving a combo in for a few days to try to get a nice feel for it and with quite a few different albums.
  
 I have been really digging the blues big time ....and they sound wonderful with Glenns amp and the HD800


----------



## jhljhl

rossliew said:


> Not snobbish as all  As I have a pair of C3Gs which is hardly used, it would be a waste to leave them lying around if I could instead use them in the OTL amp. I suppose no harm just getting the adapter and trying them out. Thanks for the advice too


 

 Obviously if the person enjoys how they sound that's the pro.  The con is if they only sound ok and others then buy the supply of tubes for amps that make the tube sound only just good which limits the supply for amps that can be designed to optimally use them.  I wonder how they sound in the little dot that uses 6ak5 - c3g tubes?  They sound pretty good in the wa5le.


----------



## Rossliew

jhljhl said:


> Obviously if the person enjoys how they sound that's the pro.  The con is if they only sound ok and others then buy the supply of tubes for amps that make the tube sound only just good which limits the supply for amps that can be designed to optimally use them.  I wonder how they sound in the little dot that uses 6ak5 - c3g tubes?  They sound pretty good in the wa5le.




I had actually bought the pair for use in my little dot Mk III. Yes they sounded awesome but the adapter was not very good and after warm up, there's a loud hum which makes it unlistenable. Hopefully it won't be so with the Glenn.


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> I am not positive what the minimum time is...I usually wait about 20 minutes or so.......but mostly only roll when my amp has been off for a long time......before I turn it on and listen for another session, I will roll in new tubes.
> 
> I do not turn it on and off a lot during my listening to roll tubes very often.
> 
> ...




Point noted. Guess I should be more careful. Have been switching on and off my little dot for rolling purposes..touch wood , all still ok. Good amp the little dot.


----------



## whirlwind

I usually error on the side of caution


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Btw what's the minimum time to let the tubes cool/caps to be discharged before rolling another tube in? Have heard of a person killing his Glenn amp due to tube rolling..


 

 Really a couple of Minuit's is enough. I do it right away but unplug the headphones in case there is a pop because the capacitors are still charged.
 The amp that was damaged had a output transformer and was damaged from a bad/shorted tube. OTL has no output transformer.
 You only have to worry that you have the phones unplugged if you don't wait 10 minuets


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Really a couple of Minuit's is enough. I do it right away but unplug the headphones in case there is a pop because the capacitors are still charged.
> The amp that was damaged had a output transformer and was damaged from a bad/shorted tube. OTL has no output transformer.
> You only have to worry that you have the phones unplugged if you don't wait 10 minuets


 

 Many thanks for the clarification, Glenn  At least now i know how to care for my soon-to-own OTL amp. Guess i was also doing the correct thing with my Little Dot except for unplugging the headphones...oops


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> In my experience the flat plate was a bit more resolving but had a slightly more nasal tone.  I'd like to hear your impression of the 6BX7 gibosi, assuming you are planning to try it.  I think it's a better tube than the 6BL7 in the application I have heard it in.  Really, really great tone and more nuanced sounding.  Dunno how it's been flying under the radar all this time.


 
  
 Now that you mention it, I have noticed that with the flat-plate Sylvanias, the midrange seems a bit off, but I couldn't quite figure out what I was hearing. I think calling it a bit nasally is a very apt description. So now I am definitely looking forward to trying the 6BX7s.
  
 Rolled in an embossed pair of Siemens C3g last night, and again, even with that slightly nasal quality, to my ears, the 6BL7/C3g combination is stunning.
  
 For those who don't know, I should note that not all C3gs sound the same. So when asking how does the C3g sound with this or that output tube, it is important to know which C3g. I have three versions, but I strongly suspect that there are four. I have a Lorenz and Siemens from the mid-1960's and a Siemens from the mid-1970s. They all sound different, especially the Lorenz. I am quite sure that Telefunken made this tube in the 1950's and 60's as well, but I haven't found a pair yet... 
  
 The older tubes are flat-black with embossed text on top and the newer ones are shiny-black with silk-screened text. And I strongly suspect that all C3g with shiny-black cans were manufactured by Siemens, regardless of the silk-screened brand.


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> Obviously if the person enjoys how they sound that's the pro.  The con is if they only sound ok and others then buy the supply of tubes for amps that make the tube sound only just good which limits the supply for amps that can be designed to optimally use them.  I wonder how they sound in the little dot that uses 6ak5 - c3g tubes?  They sound pretty good in the wa5le.


 
  
 They actually sound quite good in the Little Dot. I suspect that the bias values of a triode-strapped 6AK5 are a lot closer to those of a triode-strapped C3g than a 6SN7....


----------



## 2359glenn

jazzvinyl said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Describing sound is not something I do well. But what I can say is that I agree with you and the reviewer on Tweak-Fi. The bass seems deeper with better detail, and occasionally, when listening to songs I know well, I am startled to hear small unremembered details. However, I do think the sound stage seems to be a bit narrower, and as a result, imaging seems a little less precise to my mind. But still, these 6BL7s project a very musical and enjoyable sound. As I mentioned earlier, to my ears, a B36 (a 12 volt GEC B65) sounds better with the 6BL7s than it has with any 6AS7G.
> ...


 

 My OTL amp is really made for 6AS7s and it will run on 6AS7s as well as 6BL7s with 6 sockets.
 With 3  6BL7s the bias resistors are close to being right. It is a compromise to be able to use the 6BL7 that is a better sounding tube.
 The 6AS7 was made as a voltage regulator and never intended for audio use.
  
 So the amp is not really designed for 6BL7s if it was it wouldn't be right for the 6AS7 type tubes. But with 3  6BL7s per channel it is close enough
 to use them.
 And the improved sound is worth using them it will sound better with the 6BL7s then the best 6AS7s would sound. At least to me.


----------



## 2359glenn

The difference with using the adapter is they put them in parallel. when I build a amp that uses them
 I put in resistors to balance the current between the 3 paralleled  6BL7s. All tubes are a little different so without
 the resistors one tube will be drawing more current then the others. Don't really know if this affects the
 sound but one tube will be handling more current that might affect it's lifespan. No big deal they are cheep
 enough.


----------



## Rossliew

When using 2 pairs of 6BL7s in lieu of the 6AS7 tubes, would all four 6BL7 tubes need to be matched? Or is it sufficient to just have matched pairs per 6AS7 side?


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> When using 2 pairs of 6BL7s in lieu of the 6AS7 tubes, would all four 6BL7 tubes need to be matched? Or is it sufficient to just have matched pairs per 6AS7 side?


 

 Matched pairs per side would be good enough.
 It will be hard enough to find a matched pair none the less a quad.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Matched pairs per side would be good enough.
> It will be hard enough to find a matched pair none the less a quad.


 

 Thanks, Glenn...scouring eBay now


----------



## 2359glenn

Matched is not necessary when there is balancing resistors.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Matched is not necessary when there is balancing resistors.


 

 So does that mean i can buy non-matched quads when using the adapters? (sorry if this is a silly question)


----------



## Rossliew

On a separate note, has anyone tried the SE274B mesh tube as a rectifier in their Glenn OTL? How is the sound like?


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> They actually sound quite good in the Little Dot. I suspect that the bias values of a triode-strapped 6AK5 are a lot closer to those of a triode-strapped C3g than a 6SN7....


 
  
 I don't consider myself an audiophile because that seems to imply some kind of fanatic. I appreciate it to a limit. Though I have spent a lot of time learning but that will draw to a close not because I'll have learned it all but because I've reached my limit in comprehension (sometimes as there are no clear instructions rather than difficulty in material which actually ironically reminds me of formal schooling sometimes) or interest.
  
 I was voicing a concern by another member here which seems somewhat reasonable but I don't see it as a big deal.  Anyway, I might pickup a little dot to hear it myself.


----------



## parbaked

rossliew said:


> So does that mean i can buy non-matched quads when using the adapters? (sorry if this is a silly question)


 

 no...the adapters do not have balancing resistors.
 you should try to at least use matched pairs with an adapter that is wired in parallel.


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> On a separate note, has anyone tried the SE274B mesh tube as a rectifier in their Glenn OTL? How is the sound like?


 

 Don't do it it will blow up can't handle the current.  This is a weak tube.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> My OTL amp is really made for 6AS7s and it will run on 6AS7s as well as 6BL7s with 6 sockets.
> *With 3  6BL7s the bias resistors are close to being right.* It is a compromise to be able to use the 6BL7 that is a better sounding tube.
> 
> The 6AS7 was made as a voltage regulator and never intended for audio use.
> ...


 
  
 Bold emphasis mine. This suggests that anyone seriously considering using the 6BL7 as an output tube should wait until the adapter allowing *three 6BL7 per channel* is available. The bias resistance will be closer to optimal than it is with the two 6BL7 per channel adapter I have, and therefore, it should sound better.


----------



## Rossliew

parbaked said:


> no...the adapters do not have balancing resistors.
> you should try to at least use matched pairs with an adapter that is wired in parallel.




Noted with thanks, parbaked. Will use one of those adapters that gibosi is currently having with his amp.



2359glenn said:


> Don't do it it will blow up can't handle the current.  This is a weak tube.




Whoa..glad I checked with you first. No nice looking meshes then..the same holds for the EMLs as well?



gibosi said:


> Bold emphasis mine. This suggests that anyone seriously considering using the 6BL7 as an output tube should wait until the adapter allowing *three 6BL7 per channel* is available. The bias resistance will be closer to optimal than it is with the two 6BL7 per channel adapter I have, and therefore, it should sound better.




I would still want to try it first and use the sound as a benchmark for when the 3 per channel adapter is available.


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> parbaked said:
> 
> 
> > no...the adapters do not have balancing resistors.
> ...


 

 No EML it will blow up too No meshes of any kind
 These regular rectifiers can just handle the current.
 Only the TV damper diodes in Joe's amp can easily handle it they can do 1amp = 1000ma
  
 Also you should get 2 sets of 3 matched 6BL7s if you can.  It will work with any old 6BL7s though if you can't find matched.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> No EML it will blow up too No meshes of any kind
> These regular rectifiers can just handle the current.
> Only the TV damper diodes in Joe's amp can easily handle it they can do 1amp = 1000ma
> 
> ...




Have to check with the Ebay seller if the 3 a side adapter is available yet or not. I'm also afraid there isn't much space to use the 3 a side adapters.


----------



## whirlwind

It will probably be a week or a little more than that for the adapters to be done.
  
 I am going to try the three 6BL7 also, as Glenn said they will sound great.
  
 I have been listening to this combo all day......good lord this is absolutely wonderful sounding....I can only imagine how the three 6BL7's sound.

  
 These particular 5998 are not matched, matter of fact they are made years apart, I bought them very cheap and they sound stunning, dead quiet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .....my attenuator can be on like 8 oclock.
  
 Listening to Eric Clapton and also Tinsley Ellis with the HD800.......just wonderful.......cant wait to try the 6BL7 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 
  
 Glenn, if I use my socket savers and then plug my 6BL7 adapters in and if the adapters rotate a little, like I think they do.....I may be able to make room to use the C3g....what do you think ?


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> It will probably be a week or a little more than that for the adapters to be done.
> 
> I am going to try the three 6BL7 also, as Glenn said they will sound great.
> 
> ...




Please let us know when the adapters are ready..am sure quite a few of us want to try them out 

As for the power tubes, not a necessity to match them? Or is your version of your amp having some trick circuitry to self bias?...


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > It will probably be a week or a little more than that for the adapters to be done.
> ...


 
 I will post here when they are ready, but you could just check e-bay too.
  
 I like to get pairs that are fairly well matched, but the deal on these was too good to pass up......Glenn would have to answer that circuitry question....I am just a listener and a roller


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Glenn, if I use my socket savers and then plug my 6BL7 adapters in and if the adapters rotate a little, like I think they do.....I may be able to make room to use the C3g....what do you think ?


 
  
 From your question, it would seem that the sockets are little closer together on your amp than they are on mine....


----------



## Xcalibur255

rossliew said:


> Please let us know when the adapters are ready..am sure quite a few of us want to try them out
> 
> As for the power tubes, not a necessity to match them? Or is your version of your amp having some trick circuitry to self bias?...


 
  
 It's not essential to have them closely matched, but there are benefits to doing so.  Some amps are less forgiving than others, Glenn's amps are on the more forgiving side.
  
 The pair of 5998s I run are not even remotely matched.  One tube has way more hours of use on it than the other (it's original brother went in the trash after shorting and blowing up my K701s), and I have never noticed any channel imbalance or other ill effect.  Glenn got me a new single tube to replace the bad one and I just went on using them without worrying about it.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, if I use my socket savers and then plug my 6BL7 adapters in and if the adapters rotate a little, like I think they do.....I may be able to make room to use the C3g....what do you think ?
> ...


 
  
  
 Yes,  I believe so Ken. I think I can make it work though.


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> Yes,  I believe so Ken. I think I can make it work though.




Please share the results of your experiment  Once I receive my amp I shall see if the sockets are located sufficiently apart to try the same trick as well...


----------



## Rossliew

xcalibur255 said:


> It's not essential to have them closely matched, but there are benefits to doing so.  Some amps are less forgiving than others, Glenn's amps are on the more forgiving side.
> 
> The pair of 5998s I run are not even remotely matched.  One tube has way more hours of use on it than the other (it's original brother went in the trash after shorting and blowing up my K701s), and I have never noticed any channel imbalance or other ill effect.  Glenn got me a new single tube to replace the bad one and I just went on using them without worrying about it.




Noted with thanks. I shall also carefully ensure the 5998 tubes are all warmed up before plugging in my cans just in case of shorts as you advised earlier in your postings


----------



## Neogeo333

It's time to post some more food porn pics.
 Aside from the best pizza we have the best pastrami.


----------



## whirlwind

neogeo333 said:


> It's time to post some more food porn pics.
> Aside from the best pizza we have the best pastrami.


 
 Damn George...I saw Katzs on a tv show on the food network....holy crap, that pastrami sandwich looks so delicious....man do I love pastrami, corned beef, brisket....you must have had about a pound of pastrami...that is huge!


----------



## 2359glenn

neogeo333 said:


> It's time to post some more food porn pics.
> Aside from the best pizza we have the best pastrami.


 

 George I hate you got to get back to NY


----------



## Neogeo333

Glenn, you need to take a vacation from work and visit me. I think i gained 5 pounds in the last 3 weeks. Cant help it.

That sandwich does look big. Speaking in spanish to the staff so they would make it bigger than usual helps also.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

They say the water in NYC makes the bagels better.  I think the same applies to pastrami...
  
 Man that hand sliced meat looks delicious.


----------



## JazzVinyl

3x 6BL7 per 6AS7 socket adapter for Glenn amps (and others) is ready:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-tube-converter-adapter-for-3-6BL7-instead-6AS7-6080-/201533519050

Note that she also lets you select:

Rotate-able or fixed
and
Internal or External heat

Looks like she has all the bases covered 

Enjoy!




.


----------



## 3083joe

jazzvinyl said:


> 3x 6BL7 per 6AS7 socket adapter for Glenn amps (and others) is ready:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-tube-converter-adapter-for-3-6BL7-instead-6AS7-6080-/201533519050
> 
> ...



Thanks for this, but what does the internal or external heat mean (I have a wa22)
Tia


----------



## JazzVinyl

3083joe said:


> Thanks for this, but what does the internal or external heat mean (I have a wa22)
> Tia




The 6BL7 tube consumes 1.5 amps of current, per tube.

Run (2) 6BL7's per 6as7 socket (assume you have 2) and you are at 6 amps of current draw
Run (3) 6BL7's per 6as7 socket (assume you have 2) and you are at 9 amps of current draw

6 and 9 amps of current draw, could put you over the limit of what your amps' transformer is designed to deliver.

Internal heat means pins 7 and 8 *are connected* and your amps' transformer will deliver the heater current.

External heat means pins 7 and 8 *are not connected*, and you are provided wires to use an external
transformer to deliver the current to heat the 6BL7's.

*Do NOT run internally heated multiple 6BL7's in place of a 6AS7, unless you know what your amps' current draw 
limitations are. 

You could burn up your transformer, and be very unhappy.*






.


----------



## whirlwind

I just ordered two adapters and I bought my six 6BL7's a couple of days ago...so now just the wait for it all to arrive.


----------



## Rossliew

jazzvinyl said:


> 3x 6BL7 per 6AS7 socket adapter for Glenn amps (and others) is ready:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-tube-converter-adapter-for-3-6BL7-instead-6AS7-6080-/201533519050
> 
> ...




For Glenn OTL, is the internally heated adapter sufficient ?


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> jazzvinyl said:
> 
> 
> > 3x 6BL7 per 6AS7 socket adapter for Glenn amps (and others) is ready:
> ...


 
 For my Glenn OTL it is, probably so for yours too, but best check with Glenn, just to be sure.


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> For Glenn OTL, is the internally heated adapter sufficient ?


 
  
 If your OTL can handle a pair of 6336, then it is more than sufficient.


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> For my Glenn OTL it is, probably so for yours too, but best check with Glenn, just to be sure.




Thanks 



gibosi said:


> If your OTL can handle a pair of 6336, then it is more than sufficient.




Mine allows it to run 5998 tubes, will that suffice?


----------



## JazzVinyl

rossliew said:


> Thanks
> Mine allows it to run 5998 tubes, will that suffice?




You really need to ask Glenn. Not having enough juice and running 3x of these tubes can wreck your Transformer.

I predict you will be okay, but lets ask Glenn to be absolutely certain.


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Mine allows it to run 5998 tubes, will that suffice?


 
  
 This is the picture you sent me. The amp you are getting has the same transformer as mine, so it can handle a pair of 6336 or six 6BL7. No problem.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> In my experience the flat plate was a bit more resolving but had a slightly more nasal tone.  I'd like to hear your impression of the 6BX7 gibosi, assuming you are planning to try it.  I think it's a better tube than the 6BL7 in the application I have heard it in.  Really, really great tone and more nuanced sounding.  Dunno how it's been flying under the radar all this time.


 
  
 Today, received four three-mica Sylvania 6BX7GT manufactured in the late 1950's to early 1960's. And yes indeed, the difference in tone compared to the Sylvania flat-plate 6BL7GT is immediately noticeable, and for the better, I think. Listening with a pair of the older embossed Siemens C3g as drivers, Melody Gardot sounds pretty terrific. But I've had only about 30 minutes with them so it's too soon to be able say anything more....


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> This is the picture you sent me. The amp you are getting has the same transformer as mine, so it can handle a pair of 6336 or six 6BL7. No problem.




Thanks sir!


----------



## JazzVinyl

I am running 4x 6BX7's tonight as well. Agree that these are terrific sounding tubes. My driver tonight is Ken Rad VT231, they pair superbly with the 6BX7's...

Cheers!


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


>




Why does this amp have the tall socket adapters on it? Just to get the heat off the deck?


----------



## Rossliew

jazzvinyl said:


> Why does this amp have the tall socket adapters on it? Just to get the heat off the deck?




Lol I have to ask the previous owner..


----------



## JoelT

I've been enjoying my amp driving modded HD650's this evening. Tubes being used are 4 GEC 6080's on the outputs via adapters, driver is a National Union 6F8G and a Western Electric 422A rectifier. This is probably the best I've heard this headphone. Improved imaging and separation were immediately apparent compared to running 2 6080's, stage became deeper and more 3D. Furthermore, the entire spectrum is tighter and more resolved while still retaining that wonderful liquidity and tasteful warmth. Absolutely lovely.
  
 There are screws on the corners of the adapters that stick up a bit too far, which is causing the tubes to slightly lean in the sockets. I'll need to address that.


----------



## punit

jazzvinyl said:


> Why does this amp have the tall socket adapters on it? Just to get the heat off the deck?


 
 That's my amp that I am selling to Rossliew as I have now completely moved to Planars (sold my HD 800 & T1) & am in line for a Glenn 300B amp. I used the socket savers as I was OCD about not wearing out the tube sockets when tube rolling.


----------



## Rossliew

punit said:


> That's my amp that I am selling to Rossliew as I have now completely moved to Planars (sold my HD 800 & T1) & am in line for a Glenn 300B amp. I used the socket savers as I was OCD about not wearing out the tube sockets when tube rolling.




 The cat is out of the bag..lucky me hahaha


----------



## 2359glenn

joelt said:


> I've been enjoying my amp driving modded HD650's this evening. Tubes being used are 4 GEC 6080's on the outputs via adapters, driver is a National Union 6F8G and a Western Electric 422A rectifier. This is probably the best I've heard this headphone. Improved imaging and separation were immediately apparent compared to running 2 6080's, stage became deeper and more 3D. Furthermore, the entire spectrum is tighter and more resolved while still retaining that wonderful liquidity and tasteful warmth. Absolutely lovely.
> 
> There are screws on the corners of the adapters that stick up a bit too far, which is causing the tubes to slightly lean in the sockets. I'll need to address that.


 

 Cool not many people can do that with there amp.
 Your amp has the biggest transformer of all and the driver is on a separate 6.3 volt winding.


----------



## whirlwind

joelt said:


> I've been enjoying my amp driving modded HD650's this evening. Tubes being used are 4 GEC 6080's on the outputs via adapters, driver is a National Union 6F8G and a Western Electric 422A rectifier. This is probably the best I've heard this headphone. Improved imaging and separation were immediately apparent compared to running 2 6080's, stage became deeper and more 3D. Furthermore, the entire spectrum is tighter and more resolved while still retaining that wonderful liquidity and tasteful warmth. Absolutely lovely.
> 
> There are screws on the corners of the adapters that stick up a bit too far, which is causing the tubes to slightly lean in the sockets. I'll need to address that.


 
 I bet that HD650 is sounding pretty darn good through that


----------



## JoelT

2359glenn said:


> Cool not many people can do that with there amp.
> Your amp has the biggest transformer of all and the driver is on a separate 6.3 volt winding.


 
 Indeed. It's a beast. It does throw out some serious heat in this configuration, but it doesn't strike me as unsafe. But yeah, it's pulling some juice.  
  


whirlwind said:


> I bet that HD650 is sounding pretty darn good through that


 
 I usually find the HD650 a bit woolly in the bass and slightly more laid back than I prefer in most setups. That's not the case at all with this tube compliment. Very tight, detailed, with great impact and dimensional staging.


----------



## Rossliew

jazzvinyl said:


> The 6BL7 tube consumes 1.5 amps of current, per tube.
> 
> Run (2) 6BL7's per 6as7 socket (assume you have 2) and you are at 6 amps of current draw
> Run (3) 6BL7's per 6as7 socket (assume you have 2) and you are at 9 amps of current draw
> ...


 

 Since i can use internally heated adapters, do i choose the option *"pin 7/8 Connect from amp trans...."* ?


----------



## JazzVinyl

rossliew said:


> Since i can use internally heated adapters, do i choose the option *"pin 7/8 Connect from amp trans...."* ?




Yes, that looks good, Rossliew!


----------



## dminches

I would remove all those socket savers since any additions to the wiring can degrade the sound.  Maybe it won't make a difference but unless they are critical I wouldn't use them.


----------



## parbaked

Happy Birthday @Clayton SF 
 Eat cake and noodles!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

dminches said:


> I would remove all those socket savers since any additions to the wiring can degrade the sound.  Maybe it won't make a difference but unless they are critical I wouldn't use them.


 
  
 This is where I landed on this issue too.  The caveat is, with that particular style of tube socket shown in the photo (same ones that are on my old OTL), I do feel if you tube roll a LOT they get start to feel like they are wearing out and not gripping tube pins well anymore.  But you really have to be pulling tubes all the time to get to that point and honestly no amp is meant to be used that way anyway.
  
 The only time I've ever been tempted to try socket savers was while using 6080Ws.  The amp gets so hot with those tubes.  I imagine the 6336 is even worse.  I resolved the issue by finding a nice pair of 6520s to use instead (or running 5998s of course).


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Today, received four three-mica Sylvania 6BX7GT manufactured in the late 1950's to early 1960's. And yes indeed, the difference in tone compared to the Sylvania flat-plate 6BL7GT is immediately noticeable, and for the better, I think. Listening with a pair of the older embossed Siemens C3g as drivers, Melody Gardot sounds pretty terrific. But I've had only about 30 minutes with them so it's too soon to be able say anything more....


 

 Glad to hear you like them.  I felt mine opened up with some run time and got quite a bit better at resolving low level detail.  I'm sure it depends on whether or not the tubes are truly NOS or not.  Mine were.  The 6BX7 has a presentation that I want to describe as "delicate" when it comes to note decay and fine details, but without any loss of dynamics or punch.  I quite like it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

xcalibur255 said:


> Glad to hear you like them.  I felt mine opened up with some run time and got quite a bit better at resolving low level detail.  I'm sure it depends on whether or not the tubes are truly NOS or not.  Mine were.  The 6BX7 has a presentation that I want to describe as "delicate" when it comes to note decay and fine details, but without any loss of dynamics or punch.  I quite like it.




+1 on the 6BX7's...very fine tubes, indeed.


----------



## Clayton SF

parbaked said:


> Happy Birthday @Clayton SF
> Eat cake and noodles!!!


 
  
 Thank you!
  
 Look what my supervisor left on my desk this morning:
 A cupcake with a rabbit jumping down a rabbit hole.


----------



## parbaked

I love mushroom cupcakes....


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm on a diet.  All the food pictures in here were hard enough to see before, not it's just torture.


----------



## Rossliew

clayton sf said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Look what my supervisor left on my desk this morning:
> A cupcake with a rabbit jumping down a rabbit hole.


 

 Now that's a nice looking cupcake!


----------



## whirlwind

The 6BL7 adapters came today and I was able to fit the C3g's in my amp with the  six 6BL7 tubes, but I may have at least one bad tube, if not more....the hum is too bad to even listen and judge the sound.
  

  
  
 Guess I will see if I can send the tubes back and try for some replacements


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> The 6BL7 adapters came today and I was able to fit the C3g's in my amp with the  six 6BL7 tubes, but I may have at least one bad tube, if not more....the hum is too bad to even listen and judge the sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have gotten some bad 6BL7's, too. Have recv'd 4 bad ones out of about 14 purchased. The adapters are in parallel so you can use two in the adapter, and see if you can isolate the bad one(s).

I also noticed I cannot use C3g with multi 6 BL7's because the C3g's have a lot of gain, they picked up interference from the 6BL7's being so close to the C3g's.

If I use 6SN7 and keep as much distance away from the 6BL7's as possible, noises were gone.

Cheers!


----------



## whirlwind

jazzvinyl said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > The 6BL7 adapters came today and I was able to fit the C3g's in my amp with the  six 6BL7 tubes, but I may have at least one bad tube, if not more....the hum is too bad to even listen and judge the sound.
> ...


 
 I will try to find the culprit(s) this weekend by trying two tubes per channel.
  
 I already tried with a 6SN7 and the hum remained.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I will try to find the culprit(s) this weekend by trying two tubes per channel.
> 
> I already tried with a 6SN7 and the hum remained.




Indeed, mine that were bad...a loud buzz....


----------



## gibosi

Interesting....  I have two quads of 6BL7 and one quad of 6BX7, all of them Sylvania. Running C3g with these tubes in my amp isn't any noisier than running C3g with a pair of 5998 in enhanced mode. I never hear any hum while music is playing. And while I can hear it in between tracts, frankly I rarely notice it...
  
 I am using four rather than six output tubes which might be a factor. Or maybe I just lucked out and got 12 good tubes. Or maybe the fact that on my amp there is a little more space between the C3g and these output tubes is a factor. And/or perhaps I am simply a little more tolerant of ground hum given I have the original transformer.
  
 A couple of thoughts.... As the 6BX7 has a mu of 10, compared to 15 for the 6BL7, you might want to give them a try. And when you try four, as opposed to six, you might want to choose the empty socket in such a way as to maximize the space between the output tubes and the C3g.
  
 All that said, in my system, with my ears, the C3g has better synergy with 6BL7/6BX7 than it does with any 6AS7-type tube I own. The small amount of hum I have is a very small price to pay, IMHO.


----------



## 2359glenn

jazzvinyl said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > The 6BL7 adapters came today and I was able to fit the C3g's in my amp with the  six 6BL7 tubes, but I may have at least one bad tube, if not more....the hum is too bad to even listen and judge the sound.
> ...


 

 Whirlwind's C3g cannot pick up noise the shield is grounded


----------



## JazzVinyl

For absolute certain, every driver I own sounds better with multiple 6BL7's / 6BX7's than they do with 6AS7 as well. I am sold on multi 6BL7.

My 3x adapter on my amp brings the 6BL7's very close to the driver tube. It might be the open power rails on the adapter that causes some noise picked up via C3g, I did not have that problem with 2x 6BL7 as there was more space between the C3g and 6BL7's. 

All my lower gain drivers are happy next to the (6) 6BL7's, no hum no noises.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Whirlwind's C3g cannot pick up noise the shield is grounded




Sounds like he just has some buzzing 6BL7's then...huh?


----------



## whirlwind

After some trouble shooting, I believe I have one socket on one of the adapters that is noisy.....it seems as soon as I put a tube in that adapter, in the last socket, the buzz begins.
  
 So it is not the tubes or the C3g's interfering with them....matter of fact the C3g's paired with them is stunning!
  
 Just for the record it seems all six of my 6BL7 have some micro phonics, but I am pretty sure the buzz that is unbearable is from the adapters last socket.
  
 Man I hate to ship the adapter back to China and wait for another.
  
 Glenn was right, as usual  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.....these tubes sound very nice.
  
 Lots of authority with the HD800 on my amp....my stepped attenuator is on the 2nd step and it is even pretty good sound on the first step!
  
 I love how the bass goes deep and how the bass, cymbals and even the tambourines really *sustain* their sound, especially when paired with the C3g's....it is very addictive for sure and I like it a lot.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sounds good that all your 6BL7's are good, Whirlwind. One of my 2x 6BL7 adapters fell apart on me. I notified the seller and she sent a replacement, never asked for the bad one back.

Since all are In parallel, you should be able to run 2x in the 3x adapter until you get a 2nd good adapter.


Agree that Glenn is right, as usual, the multi 6BL7 is unbeatable for superb sound quality. I notice deeper, yet tighter, more controlled bass and I get details in mids and highs that are barely hinted at when using 6AS7 as powers.

I find the multi 6BL7 to be very addictive, makes me want to play another album, and enjoy


----------



## 2359glenn

jazzvinyl said:


> Sounds good that all your 6BL7's are good, Whirlwind. One of my 2x 6BL7 adapters fell apart on me. I notified the seller and she sent a replacement, never asked for the bad one back.
> 
> Since all are In parallel, you should be able to run 2x in the 3x adapter until you get a 2nd good adapter.
> 
> ...


 

 Just Waite until you get a amp that is made to take the 6BL7s no adapter.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Just Wait until you get a amp that is made to take the 6BL7s no adapter.




Haha, yes, I can't wait....!!


----------



## whirlwind

Maybe my thinking about the socket in one of the adapters being bad or shorted is not correct....I can run this set-up and things are dead silent, and one Chatham 6AS7G is in the socket that I was thinking was no good.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yes, I get the exact same noise you described, Whirlwind, from a couple of 6BL7's that arrived no good. Sellers said they were measured and measured good, but the loud buzz came on, immediately.

In all (as I said) have gotten 4 that were not okay, out of 14 bought.

If the 6AS7 works, surely the connections to the socket are good.

Time to buy a few more 6BL7's (fortunately, they are inexpensive).

Cheers!


----------



## whirlwind

Weird thing is though, if you move the what you think is the noisy 6BL7 to another socket...it is not noisy.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Weird thing is though, if you move the what you think is the noisy 6BL7 to another socket...it is not noisy.


 
 The adapter really needs to have grid stopper resistors and I know they don't know to do that.
 The amp has them but that is for the one tube this adapter is after that resistor.
  
 Have you tried different 6BL7s??


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Weird thing is though, if you move the what you think is the noisy 6BL7 to another socket...it is not noisy.
> ...


 
 Yes Glenn. As soon as I put a 6BL7 in the last socket of that adapter , it has a loud buzz, I can put a different 6BL7 in that socket and it still buzz....but those same tubes dont buzz in the other sockets.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I can put a 6AS7 tube in that socket and it is fine also.
  
 I am baffled.....I thought is was the adapter until the 6AS7 worked with no buzz.


----------



## gibosi

This seems to imply that there is an improper electrical connection between the middle and last socket in that adapter. A single tube in either of these sockets is quiet. But two tubes buzz. And this happens with only one of the two adapters? If I understand this correctly, I am inclined to think that there must be something wrong with that adapter....


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> This seems to imply that there is an improper electrical connection between the middle and last socket in that adapter. A single tube in either of these sockets is quiet. But two tubes buzz. And this happens with only one of the two adapters? If I understand this correctly, I am inclined to think that there must be something wrong with that adapter....


 
 This is also the only thing that I can think of, the seller wants me to try an external power source, of course I am not going to do that.
  
 I think I will just use the adapter with two 6BL7 tubes.  I notice these tubes get very hot, very fast. 
  
 I am finished with buying any adapters that take more than one tube...I have now had trouble with a couple of them, and to be honest, I feel the quality is a bit lacking.


----------



## Xcalibur255

6BL7s seem to be just as prone to noise and short issues as 6AS7/6080 tubes are.  At least in my experience, though I have absolutely crap luck with tubes all around I must admit.
  
 My cherry NOS 1951 Sylvania 6BL7 flat plates just shorted and started producing popping in the headphones.  Last time I used them they were perfectly fine.  More money and more tubes in the garbage.  I've had multiple 6BL7s in the past that were so noisy they had to be thrown out too.  Honestly there are days when I think it might not be a bad idea to just jump back over the fence..........


----------



## 3083joe

Since we are talking about the 6bl7, has anyone tried it in the woo audio wa22?


----------



## JazzVinyl

3083joe said:


> Since we are talking about the 6bl7, has anyone tried it in the woo audio wa22?




No WA amp...but I am running 6 (inexpensive) 6BL7's in the Elise amp, and absolutely loving it. Major increase in sound quality over 6AS7. I have to heat mine externally, 
but, it's totally worth the effort.


----------



## whirlwind

I have been running 4 6BL7 in my amp and they are dead quiet..
  
 I love the authority of the bass and the long decay and the way it sustains ...but it seems to work best for me on certain albums.....I can love the sound, but on some albums, no so much......kind of a love hate thing  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 They sound beautiful when paired with the C3g's......I need to try some SN7's with them.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I do find SN7 love multi 6BL7's. Also found that 3x per 6AS7 socket allows more drivers to sound favorable. With 2x certain drivers sounded great, others not so great. But 3x and all drivers sound like they are running at top flight. 

Listening 3x per with ECC31's at the moment....

My six are dead quiet too, but as mentioned, I did come across some that were not. My most troublesome have been old Tung Sol tubes. Have CBS, Sylvania, RCA, GE, Philco and Raytheon...all quiet and just dandy sounding. 




.


----------



## Khragon

Anyone know is bringing Glenn 300B to this week meet? Would love to get a taste of what to come for me


----------



## vc1187

khragon said:


> Anyone know is bringing Glenn 300B to this week meet? Would love to get a taste of what to come for me


 
 I don't own the 300B but...
  
 I'm bringing and proudly representing the Glenn OTL at the Cornelius, NC meet tomorrow as a top tier amp for the HD800.


----------



## leftside

Do you know if Glenn is still taking orders? I sent him a message on here, but no response. I presume he could also be very busy.


----------



## leftside

Glenn got back to me.
 
I've almost finished reading all of this very informative thread...


----------



## lukeap69

leftside said:


> Glenn got back to me.
> 
> I've almost finished reading all of this very informative thread...


 
 And? Is he still taking orders?


----------



## leftside

I'm not sure to be honest. He seems quite busy.


----------



## vc1187

Look what just came in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  

  

  
 Supposedly the holy grail of 6SN7 tubes (not counting the B65), the Tung Sol 6SN7GT Black Glass Round Plate.
 Initial impression:  Very nice and refined treble with an extremely spacious soundstage.  It's taking me some time to get used to the sound with the GEC U52 rectifier because the soundstage is so vast... quite possibly the largest I have ever heard on the HD800.


----------



## whirlwind

vc1187 said:


> Look what just came in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes, it is a great sounding tube.


----------



## vc1187

The Mullard GZ37 (53KU) fat bottle with GEC 6080s and the TS BGRP 6SN7GT are really freakishly good with the HD800.  While not quite as crystal clear and resolving as the almighty GEC U52, the GZ37 fat bottle sounds like it is comfortably a few rows back and a slight bit warmer.  Previously, I had thought that the GZ37 sounded too distant with my TS 6SN7GTB, but this isn't the case with the TS BGRP driver.  It's possibly the most musical sounding I have ever heard the HD800!  And to me, musical is the most important attribute of any amplifier.


----------



## gibosi

vc1187 said:


> .....It's taking me some time to get used to the sound with the GEC U52 rectifier because the soundstage is so vast... quite possibly the largest I have ever heard on the HD800.


 
  
 I've seen these GEC U52/5U4G with cup getters, pan getters and rectangular getters. Which one do you have?


----------



## vc1187

No idea, perhaps you could tell me what they classify as based on the following pictures of the ones I have.


----------



## gibosi

vc1187 said:


> No idea, perhaps you could tell me what they classify as based on the following pictures of the ones I have.


 
  
 I believe I see a rectangular getter in the left tube. Thanks!


----------



## Khragon

Nabbed myself a pair of old engraved Lorenz today.. no amp yet.. but I think I got a good enough collection of C3g to last me a life time.
 Got myself 8 pairs of Siemens, 1 pair of new Lorenz, 1 pair of old one (just now), and 2 more pairs of Valvo coming.  If these tubes turned out to last >5k hours, I'm in good shape.


----------



## Xcalibur255

khragon said:


> Nabbed myself a pair of old engraved Lorenz today.. no amp yet.. but I think I got a good enough collection of C3g to last me a life time.
> Got myself 8 pairs of Siemens, 1 pair of new Lorenz, 1 pair of old one (just now), and 2 more pairs of Valvo coming.  If these tubes turned out to last >5k hours, I'm in good shape.


 
  
 1 pair, and just one, is probably enough to last a lifetime.  These tubes will comfortably last 15,000-20,000 hours in this application.  Used 4 hours a day every single day that's about 14 years.


----------



## Khragon

Oh lol, I didn't know that. Guess I can stop hoarding these now.


----------



## 2359glenn

Here is what all those C3gs are for


----------



## Khragon

Me want!
  
 Thanks Glenn.


----------



## whirlwind

Just beautiful, Glenn.
  
 Khragon you are a lucky man


----------



## musicman59

2359glenn said:


> Here is what all those C3gs are for


 
  
 Can't wait for my amp!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 I already have a collection of C3G and PY500 tubes waiting for it......


----------



## Khragon

musicman59 said:


> Can't wait for my amp!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Are you getting 300B also?
  
 I have about 10 set of PY500 too, according to Tony, they don't sound different from each other, just the Telefunken ones glow the best.  So I got 3 set of those.
 Anyone know how long do PY500 last?


----------



## lukeap69

Looks gorgeous.


----------



## musicman59

khragon said:


> Are you getting 300B also?
> 
> I have about 10 set of PY500 too, according to Tony, they don't sound different from each other, just the Telefunken ones glow the best.  So I got 3 set of those.
> Anyone know how long do PY500 last?


 
 Yes, I think I am next on the list but Glenn wil lhave to confirm. I got in the list late July last year.


----------



## Khragon

Going back to my messages, I contacted Glenn beginning of May last year.  Almost there...


----------



## lukeap69

And I am in between i.e. June of 2015.


----------



## RAZRr1275

Looks like I have a ways to go. I got on the list in late October of last year. I have plenty to keep me busy though


----------



## Rossliew

This is getting to sound like a BHSE waiting list lol!


----------



## RAZRr1275

rossliew said:


> This is getting to sound like a BHSE waiting list lol!


 
 Lol. It really does. But from all that I've heard about it its well worth the wait. Plus I have the Zana Deux to keep me occupied. And my hands warm from those ridiculously large Russian space heaters. I mean tubes.


----------



## Rossliew

razrr1275 said:


> Lol. It really does. But from all that I've heard about it its well worth the wait. Plus I have the Zana Deux to keep me occupied. And my hands warm from those ridiculously large Russian space heaters. I mean tubes.




I envy you guys with the incoming 300B amp..


----------



## RAZRr1275

rossliew said:


> I envy you guys with the incoming 300B amp..


 
 Wow ESP-950 and Little Dot to Glenn 300B. That's a huge jump. You'll certainly appreciate it. I'm just going for the OTL myself. 300Bs are a little bit too expensive for my wallet. I guess the way it works in my head is I can justify spending an extra 2K to keep the ZD around but I can't justify spending 1.something K on one set of 300Bs if I'm aiming for the best ones. Figured that cash with the OTL would get me a bunch of tube rolling options and take me a long way. Maybe a 300B down the road. I was very tempted to go for it.


----------



## Rossliew

razrr1275 said:


> Wow ESP-950 and Little Dot to Glenn 300B. That's a huge jump. You'll certainly appreciate it. I'm just going for the OTL myself. 300Bs are a little bit too expensive for my wallet. I guess the way it works in my head is I can justify spending an extra 2K to keep the ZD around but I can't justify spending 1.something K on one set of 300Bs if I'm aiming for the best ones. Figured that cash with the OTL would get me a bunch of tube rolling options and take me a long way. Maybe a 300B down the road. I was very tempted to go for it.




Sorry you may have mistaken my post - I don't have the 300B coming in lol but I have recently purchased a used Glenn OTL which I'm getting it sorted out for a minor quibble...can't wait for the tube rolling to begin!


----------



## RAZRr1275

rossliew said:


> Sorry you may have mistaken my post - I don't have the 300B coming in lol but I have recently purchased a used Glenn OTL which I'm getting it sorted out for a minor quibble...can't wait for the tube rolling to begin!


 

 Oops - yeah I did. I'd love to hear how you like your OTL when it comes! I'm very much looking forward to mine. You still have a huge jump coming your way.


----------



## lukeap69

rossliew said:


> Sorry you may have mistaken my post - I don't have the 300B coming in lol but I have recently purchased a used Glenn OTL which I'm getting it sorted out for a minor quibble...can't wait for the tube rolling to begin!




Is this the one originally owned by Punit?


----------



## Rossliew

lukeap69 said:


> Is this the one originally owned by Punit?




Yes it is  Lovely amp indeed!


----------



## lukeap69

rossliew said:


> Yes it is  Lovely amp indeed!




I had the chance to listen with it with my HD800. That's what prompted me to order my own one...


----------



## musicman59

khragon said:


> Going back to my messages, I contacted Glenn beginning of May last year.  Almost there...


 
  
  


lukeap69 said:


> And I am in between i.e. June of 2015.


 
 Well, maybe I am not next.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 It would be great if Glenn publishes his list so at least we know the order....
 I also have stuff that will keep me entertained in the meantime.


----------



## lukeap69

musicman59 said:


> Well, maybe I am not next..
> It would be great if Glenn publishes his list so at least we know the order....
> I also have stuff that will keep me entertained in the meantime.




He is building my amp already...


----------



## musicman59

lukeap69 said:


> He is building my amp already...



Oh! Maybe then yes I am next !


----------



## Khragon

Sophia Electric just release new 300B tube, classic 300B, they claim to have WE300B magic
  
 http://www.sophiaelectric.com/pages/se/classic_300B.htm


----------



## lukeap69

1 grand for a pair of tubes? That's only slightly cheaper than my OTL...


----------



## Khragon

Blue glass too, really isn't my cup of tea.  Their photo didn't really show much either.


----------



## leftside

khragon said:


> Sophia Electric just release new 300B tube, classic 300B, they claim to have WE300B magic
> 
> http://www.sophiaelectric.com/pages/se/classic_300B.htm


 

 Hopefully someone from here will be able to give them a try and post their thoughts. Nice to see some companies still making tubes and making an effort to replicate the "old" sound.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> 1 grand for a pair of tubes? That's only slightly cheaper than my OTL...


----------



## jhljhl

khragon said:


> Sophia Electric just release new 300B tube, classic 300B, they claim to have WE300B magic
> 
> http://www.sophiaelectric.com/pages/se/classic_300B.htm


 

 I received an email reply a couple of months ago from the makers of the Western electric reissues and they replied that they would begin manufacturing again this quarter.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

lukeap69 said:


> 1 grand for a pair of tubes? That's only slightly cheaper than my OTL...


 
 $699 intro price...so not too bad.
  
 So is this below Royal P.?  A nice set of used RP can be had for the same price.  I like the RP a lot, nice bass kick.  One of y'all got to compare of these sometimes.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

jhljhl said:


> I received an email reply a couple of months ago from the makers of the Western electric reissues and they replied that they would begin manufacturing again this quarter.


 
 Thanks for the head-ups.  Will watch for the new batch.
  
 The last batch of reissued WE300b got filament reliability problem right?  For +$1K price, WE has to correct this issue.


----------



## Khragon

Quote:


jhljhl said:


> I received an email reply a couple of months ago from the makers of the Western electric reissues and they replied that they would begin manufacturing again this quarter.


 
  
 Haven't they been saying that for many years now?  I really hope they make 300B again too.  I have a pair of the reissued WE300B and like it a lot, hoping these new one will just as good or better.


----------



## jhljhl

khragon said:


> Quote:
> 
> Haven't they been saying that for many years now?  I really hope they make 300B again too.  I have a pair of the reissued WE300B and like it a lot, hoping these new one will just as good or better.


 

 That's right I think. In fact I was trying to double check couple months back with another email and I never got a reply back so? If they do reissue I hope they sound as good as the vintage ones of course.


----------



## TonyNewman

After some weeks of procrastination and sheer laziness I have finally got my Glenn 300B amp repair underway. The local tube gear guy here in Auckland has my baby and is about to start surgery to see what can be done. I cooked it for anything up to an hour, so it might get ugly.
  
 Part of the delay was that I was (and still am) having so much fun with new SS amp and new DAC - the Violectric V281 + Hegel HD30. If anyone is looking for an amp that is detailed, dynamic, powerful and has a hint of warmth, then the V281 is highly recommended. The HD30 is simply superb - a noticeable step up from my previous DAC, the Vega, which is a very respectable piece of gear.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> After some weeks of procrastination and sheer laziness I have finally got my Glenn 300B amp repair underway. The local tube gear guy here in Auckland has my baby and is about to start surgery to see what can be done. I cooked it for anything up to an hour, so it might get ugly.
> 
> Part of the delay was that I was (and still am) having so much fun with new SS amp and new DAC - the Violectric V281 + Hegel HD30. If anyone is looking for an amp that is detailed, dynamic, powerful and has a hint of warmth, then the V281 is highly recommended. The HD30 is simply superb - a noticeable step up from my previous DAC, the Vega, which is a very respectable piece of gear.



Been so tempted to go this route......


----------



## Ultrainferno

Only two days left before my wife and I hop on a plane for an 11h flight to San Francisco to see Clayton. I'm looking forward to it but at the same time I'm stressed as well.
 In the mean time, music helps to relax


----------



## TonyNewman

ultrainferno said:


> ... In the mean time, music helps to relax...


 
  
 HeadFi is a great form of relaxation therapy. Works for me


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote:
  
 Have a good flight always get stressed we leave for Greece to see Stavros July 1st
 Don't know how I flew all over the world fixing machinery for a German company couldn't do it now.
  


ultrainferno said:


> Only two days left before my wife and I hop on a plane for an 11h flight to San Francisco to see Clayton. I'm looking forward to it but at the same time I'm stressed as well.
> In the mean time, music helps to relax


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


>


 
  
 How long is the flight to Athens for you, Glenn? What do you do to pass the time?


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 

 10 Hrs from Philadelphia to Athens plus 2 Hrs from Rollie to Philadelphia makes for a long trip.
 I try to sleep night flight get to Athens at 9:05am but that usually don't work..
 Long and uncomfortable.
 Good luck get some sleep!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Only two days left before my wife and I hop on a plane for an 11h flight to San Francisco to see Clayton. I'm looking forward to it but at the same time I'm stressed as well.
> In the mean time, music helps to relax


 
  
 Relax on your flight to SF because I've got a bit surprise for you and your wife when you arrive. Let's just say that you won't be disappointed!
  
 You made me feel at home when I was in Belgium for your wedding; I'll make you feel at home when you're here on your visit.
  
 Of course, finding a great beer tavern to your liking is quite a challenge, but I love a challenge.
 http://mikkeller.dk/location/mikkeller-bar-san-francisco/


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Relax on your flight to SF because I've got a bit surprise for you and your wife when you arrive. Let's just say that you won't be disappointed!
> 
> You made me feel at home when I was in Belgium for your wedding; I'll make you feel at home when you're here on your visit.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The bar looks great! Every bar you've sent me does, I'll think we'll be just fine 
 You really didn't have to arrange a surprise for us but now I do look forward to it. thanks!


----------



## TonyNewman

Amp repair progressing well. Right channel output transformer replaced and the right channel meter and choke toasted. Really, this is a lot less damage than I was expecting.
  
 I am keen to get this amp back in working order so I can see how it goes with the latest "new and improved" TA300Bs and being fed from my new Hegel HD30 DAC. I expect great things. The "old" TA300Bs were spectacular, so heaven only knows what the improved model is like.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

^^^ That is exciting.  Is sourcing the same parts difficult?


----------



## vc1187

Tony, can you explain how you busted your amp again so we know exactly what not to do?


----------



## 3083joe

ultrainferno said:


> Only two days left before my wife and I hop on a plane for an 11h flight to San Francisco to see Clayton. I'm looking forward to it but at the same time I'm stressed as well.
> In the mean time, music helps to relax


 

 nice looking table!!


----------



## TonyNewman

buttuglyjeff said:


> ^^^ That is exciting.  Is sourcing the same parts difficult?


 
  


vc1187 said:


> Tony, can you explain how you busted your amp again so we know exactly what not to do?


 
  
 Please keep in mind my knowledge of electronics is pretty basic.
  
*Parts *- so far my local repair guy has not indicated that he expects any issues on obtaining parts. Glenn has kindly offered to ship the necessary components, but that should not be necessary. The shorted out choke can be re-wired (but given it is a $20 component that might not be cost effective). Meters should be readily available locally. 
  
*What happened *- best I can tell, none of my dumb actions mattered very much. The right channel meter was defective - so when I was setting the bias at 70 to 80mA I was really setting it at over 100mA. That cooked the right hand tube and buggered some right channel components (output transformer and choke). Or maybe shorted out the choke wrecked the bias meter? I have no idea. Anyway, it appears unlikely that my yanking out the C3G tube immediately after the unit was switched off made much difference. This was a case of bad luck where a component failure led to other damage in the amp. The good news here is that it can be fixed, and it doesn't look like other components got fried (but time will tell).
  
 It's times like this that solid state really shines. Plug it in, switch it on, and a few seconds later you have audio bliss. Tube gear is more like a high maintenance female - even when do all the right things it can still explode


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> Please keep in mind my knowledge of electronics is pretty basic.
> 
> *Parts *- so far my local repair guy has not indicated that he expects any issues on obtaining parts. Glenn has kindly offered to ship the necessary components, but that should not be necessary. The shorted out choke can be re-wired (but given it is a $20 component that might not be cost effective). Meters should be readily available locally.
> 
> ...


 

 Glad you can get it fix and seems to be just a little damage.  It goes to show the important of working meters .  Maybe Glenn can design a meter point slots for us to independently verify the meter reading with a multi meter, this way we can occasionally double check the validity of our meters.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Glad you can get it fix and seems to be just a little damage.  It goes to show the important of working meters .  Maybe Glenn can design a meter point slots for us to independently verify the meter reading with a multi meter, this way we can occasionally double check the validity of our meters.


 
  
 Certainly is looking better than I had feared. Replacing the output transformer hurt a little ($300 USD) and I had to bin some tubes. Stuff happens.
  
 What happened to me is such a freaky thing - hard to imagine it happening with any sort of frequency.


----------



## Xcalibur255

You lost one of your OPTs Tony?  You got it worse than I did which is kind of surprising.
  
 I put a bad rectifier in my amp (not knowingly of course) and the resulting dead short produced some very scary fireworks.  That tube turned into a sparkler, not something I ever want to see again.  Ultimately Glenn said the only thing that actually got fried inside the amp were some resistors, I had been expecting a lot worse.  I still remember how awful that burned electronics smell was.  In fact if I put my nose to the tranny covers you can still smell it a bit, it's lingered inside the chassis somewhat.
  
 Hope you get sorted out.


----------



## TonyNewman

No fireworks. Some extreme heat and a 300B glowing cherry red. The right channel OPT was so hot it was crackling. Untouchable hot. Fried. Only a mild smell of cooked insulation, so not too bad.
  
 Running the bias way over 100mA will do that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Might be some more internal damage to caps / resistors. Too early to tell. Once the choke and meter are fixed I am guessing my repair guy will look at the other components if the sound is still compromised. But so far only the OPT + meter + choke were wrecked.


----------



## Rossliew

Happy to report that my Glenn OTL is back in service and I enjoyed my first dedicated listening session last night. Tube combo included the WE422A/GEC6AS7 brown base/tung sol 6SN7 mouse ears driving a pair of T1 2nd gen. Source is Audirvana/Spotify premium thru a Chord Mojo.

I find this combo to be very solid state sounding with fast transients, lean but tight bass with a lot of air up top. Initially upon power up the sound was lean and not very enjoyable but as it warmed up, overall sound was tighter and the bass became more prominent. 

As a side note, I found it to be more musical using the Mojo as a Dac as opposed to my Bifrost multibit. Yet to try a Diy NOS Dac though. There was some graininess to the sound when using the Bifrost that was not noticeable wih the mojo.

Next I switched rectifiers using the Philips GZ37 metal base and I got a more tubey sound with fuller and thicker notes, wholesome bass and more liquid mids at a slight expense of airiness up top. 

This shows to me how rectifiers can bring about such differences in sound and how transparent the amp is to rolling different tubes. Can't wait to have longer listening sessions tonight!

I would also like to put on record my sincere thanks to Glenn for helping troubleshoot the minor issue wih the amp. Also a big thanks to Punit for selling me one of his prized possessions!


----------



## leftside

So someone sold you one of their Glenn amps. I know this is a long shot, but if anyone ever wants to sell their Glenn 300B amp then please send me a PM.


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> So someone sold you one of their Glenn amps. I know this is a long shot, but if anyone ever wants to sell their Glenn 300B amp then please send me a PM.


 
  
 If I can get my fixed, I would rather part with a kidney 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Good luck - but I can't imagine you will find too many folks wanting to sell.


----------



## Khragon

I recommend get on the waiting list.. it's will be a while, but you'll get one for sure.  Waiting for one to be available will be even longer.


----------



## Rossliew

khragon said:


> I recommend get on the waiting list.. it's will be a while, but you'll get one for sure.  Waiting for one to be available will be even longer.




Very true! Even for my OTL, I had to partially stalk the seller  And kept bugging him to sell since he got another totl amp. Of course a little bit of patience helps as well


----------



## whirlwind

I have only ever seen one or two of Glenns amps for sale, by the original owner....people tend to keep them.
  
 I would never sell mine, I would not mind adding one more though .
  
 I am listing to my amp now....using $10 worth of rectifiers that are very transparent, along with a set of french power tubes that cost me $20  and the C3g's as drivers, which are also very transparent.....this is absolutely killer sound  with the HD800 ....listening to Bonamassa's Blues Of Desperation .....Thanks for the great sound , Glenn....someday....maybe you can make me another  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Hopefully, when I get off of work tonight, I will have a semi - vintage RS1 to try with Glenn's amp.


----------



## lukeap69

@whirlwind

Your OTL amp configurations seems to be different than what Glenn is building for me - ie using 6nos 6BL7s. I was hoping to compare it with Punit's however that is too late now since Punit sold his already. I wonder how the 2 OTL's will differ in sound...


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> @whirlwind
> 
> Your OTL amp configurations seems to be different than what Glenn is building for me - ie using 6nos 6BL7s. I was hoping to compare it with Punit's however that is too late now since Punit sold his already. I wonder how the 2 OTL's will differ in sound...


 
  
 If your amp is going to have six 6BL7 sockets....you will also be able to use 6AS7 tubes, so you will have all of the bases covered.....I think you are going to be pretty darn happy with the result.    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You should never need to worry about any multiple tube adapters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Tube rolling options will be endless, if you are into that kind of thing....which I assume you are, with that amp build.
  
 My amp has a nice warm tone..and with the HD800 this combo is just plain kick butt .......I listen to it everyday.
  
 You should be very happy with your amp and very excited as well.


----------



## lukeap69

Yup, I am pretty excited. I am not planning on rolling tubes much but would be very happy to have many options. The main purpose for this OTL is to power HD800 also. I am quite happy with the SD mod I have installed recently and I can just imagine the OTL amp making it shine further.


----------



## vc1187

lukeap69 said:


> Yup,* I am pretty excited. I am not planning on rolling tubes much but would be very happy to have many options. The main purpose for this OTL is to power HD800 also*. I am quite happy with the SD mod I have installed recently and I can just imagine the OTL amp making it shine further.


 
 You may not plan to, but you WILL end up doing it, especially if you are using it to power the HD800.
  
 When I purchased the OTL from the classifieds, I had no plans to keep it.  I had planned to try it and sell it... that is until I fell in love with the sound, and the versatility of sounding different with each rectifier, power tube pairing, or driver tube that I rolled in.


----------



## lukeap69

Oh you are probably right and I hope that I can restrain myself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have rolled tubes with my Lyr 2 before and it is both fun and hard work.


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Next I switched rectifiers using the Philips GZ37 metal base and I got a more tubey sound with fuller and thicker notes, wholesome bass and more liquid mids at a slight expense of airiness up top.
> 
> This shows to me how rectifiers can bring about such differences in sound and how transparent the amp is to rolling different tubes. Can't wait to have longer listening sessions tonight!


 
  
 I have never seen a metal-based GZ37, so I assume that what you have is an early Eindhoven-made GZ34. 
  
 Speaking of rectifiers, The other day, I received a Canadian Westinghouse VU71, likely manufactured in the early 1940s, judging by the foil getter. "VU71/CV1071" is a British military number corresponding to the U52 and my guess is that these were shipped to Britain during the war.
  
 First impressions are that this is a very nice tube. To my ears, it is not quite as good as the Cossor 53KU, but quite close, with good transparency and liquidity, but a bit more forward.
  
 And I have three more rectifiers, two in-house and one on the way (assuming that I win one more auction), but as the three are somewhat related, I want to wait until I have had a chance to listen to all of them first....
  
 Oh, and before I forget, to those of you who are planning to get a six-6BL7 OTL, if at all possible, I would encourage you to ask Glenn for two C3g sockets (assuming he can find room for them!). I was never all that impressed with the C3g while running 6AS7-type output tubes, and this includes the GEC 6AS7, Bendix slotted 6080 and the 5998. In my mind, the C3g deserves better than the 6AS7.
  
 While I have no idea if the C3g/6BL7 combination is as good as the C3g/300B, compared to the 6AS7, at least, the 6BL7 really allows the C3g to shine.


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> I have never seen a metal-based GZ37, so I assume that what you have is an early Eindhoven-made GZ34.
> 
> Speaking of rectifiers, The other day, I received a Canadian Westinghouse VU71, likely manufactured in the early 1940s, judging by the foil getter. "VU71/CV1071" is a British military number corresponding to the U52 and my guess is that these were shipped to Britain during the war.
> 
> ...




My apologies G, indeed it is a GZ34. Ah ur knowledge of tubes are unrivaled! Now would that VU71 you just received be compatible with my Glenn OTL? Am looking to roll some cheaper tubes and if you can point me to the right direction, that would be most appreciated


----------



## whirlwind

I am with gibosi on the C3g's
  
 They make all power tubes sound good in my amp  ....but the 6BL7 has some real authority as power tubes and I just used two 6BL7's


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> I am with gibosi on the C3g's
> 
> They make all power tubes sound good in my amp  ....but the 6BL7 has some real authority as power tubes and I just used two 6BL7's


 

  
 They do great things with the TA300Bs. They are utterly transparent and give the power tube every chance to show what it can (and can't) do.


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> .....Now would that VU71 you just received be compatible with my Glenn OTL? Am looking to roll some cheaper tubes and if you can point me to the right direction, that would be most appreciated


 
  
 The VU71 is essentially a U52, but manufactured by Westinghouse of Canada instead of GEC in Britain, so yes indeed, you can definitely use this in your Glenn OTL.
  
 Will send a PM...


----------



## Rossliew

For those with the OTL, do you find it sensitive to different power cables used? Not just in terms of it sounding different but in terms of susceptibility to interference /noise from RF/EMF?


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> For those with the OTL, do you find it sensitive to different power cables used? Not just in terms of it sounding different but in terms of susceptibility to interference /noise from RF/EMF?


 
 Maybe gibosi has tried different power cables.....I have not.
  
 I bought a beautiful pair of Grado RS1 headphones that arrived yesterday.......they sound wonderful with Glenn's amp.....I am using the 6336 power tubes, they are beastly.
  
 They need some time to sound their best, I notice that the sound improves after about 20 minutes or so for the tube to warm up.


----------



## Rossliew

I'm using a modest pair of 225e and they really rumble with the OTL even on 6AS7 as powers...need to swap to the 6336 and see how much better it can sound..


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> I'm using a modest pair of 225e and they really rumble with the OTL even on 6AS7 as powers...need to swap to the 6336 and see how much better it can sound..


 
 I will try some 6AS7' also.
  
 Really digging that tight Grado bass with the OTL.
  
 I am guessing the bass on your 225e is sounding pretty dang good .


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> I'm using a modest pair of 225e and they really rumble with the OTL even on 6AS7 as powers...need to swap to the 6336 and see how much better it can sound..


 

 You can also get 2 adapters and use 4  6AS7s might sound better then a 6336.
 Or go for adapters to use six 6BL7s.


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> For those with the OTL, do you find it sensitive to different power cables used? Not just in terms of it sounding different but in terms of susceptibility to interference /noise from RF/EMF?


 
  
 I haven't tried different power cables either. Frankly, I would rather spend my money on tubes. lol. But if anyone has found an "affordable" power cable they highly recommend, I would be interested.


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> I will try some 6AS7' also.
> 
> Really digging that tight Grado bass with the OTL.
> 
> I am guessing the bass on your 225e is sounding pretty dang good .


 
  
 Oh yes! Listening with the 225e now and yes, that BASS!! Hahahahah...although the sensitive nature of the cans are letting through some hum on the left channel. None when music is playing so i guess its tolerable considering this is an OTL after all..pure tubes so i can expect such inconveniences when dealing with stray RF/EMF disturbances...although i hear less with the T1
  


2359glenn said:


> You can also get 2 adapters and use 4  6AS7s might sound better then a 6336.
> Or go for adapters to use six 6BL7s.


 
  
 I've ordered myself a pair of the 3x6BL7s a side adapters. Will wait for those to arrive before trying and perhaps grab another pair of 6AS7s. Only have the GECs now.
  


gibosi said:


> I haven't tried different power cables either. Frankly, I would rather spend my money on tubes. lol. But if anyone has found an "affordable" power cable they highly recommend, I would be interested.


 
  
 LOL! Am using a generic cable now and i'm all fine. Still sounds good compared to the Wireworld cable i was using prior..


----------



## Rossliew

Can anyone share some solutions to reduce interference from RF/EMF on our tube amps? Am getting an annoying high pitched hum using the 6336 tubes...


----------



## Xcalibur255

rossliew said:


> Can anyone share some solutions to reduce interference from RF/EMF on our tube amps? Am getting an annoying high pitched hum using the 6336 tubes...


 
  
 There could be several sources for this.  Sometimes it's the tubes themselves.  I have not had the best of luck finding 6080 types that don't hum or buzz in some way.  If you are close to any kind of LCD display I have found these tubes pick up some kind of interference from them as well.  Remember also the higher your overall gain the more noise you'll get.  5998 and higher gain drivers like an ECC32 will amplify low level noise.  Generally when setup for 6AS7 my OTL was always nice and quiet.  For anything else there is generally some kind of hum present, I just accepted it as part of the game.  The 6BL7 should also be quiet in theory, but I *personally* had incredibly awful luck with these tubes.  Went through tube after tube that was noisy or temperamental.  Finally I thought I had found a good pair, true NOS flat plate, paid too much for them.  Then of course they shorted the second time I ever used them so into the trash they went.
  
 My OTL is old, some of my experience might not be applicable since I have the oldest version of the power transformer.  As for power cords, it's the one thing I've never really played around with.  If you think you're getting a ground loop hum I would try plugging into a different electrical circuit to rule it out.  Maybe power cables make a real difference in a system, but it's the one line I haven't been tempted to cross yet.  I did find a very substantial and satisfying improvement across the board in SQ by switching all my RCA interconnects from my DAC to silver/copper hybrid cables (the Signal Cable Silver Resolution line).  Big improvement there, and the change that convinced me that "cable burn in" was also a real thing after seeing how much the sound swung back and forth from bright to dark during the first hundred hours I had them in use.


----------



## Xcalibur255

On the subject of C3g, I'm in the process of doing a long-term evaluation of whether or not removing the metal shield actually affects sound or not.  I suspect the answer is proably no, but there might be some benefit to the grounding you get from the center pin at the very least.
  
 These really are pretty special tubes.  Now that my cable snafu is resolved and my amp actually sounds good again I find it amazing how colorless the C3g itself is.  It really lets me hear the difference in character between my various 45s.  I've been to figure out if Sylvania made 45 globe tubes (themselves that is, not re-branding).  Their ST type 45s are head and shoulders better than others I have tried, but they can't touch my KenRad UX245 globes.  Globe type Sylvanias might be the top rung on the ladder.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> On the subject of C3g, I'm in the process of doing a long-term evaluation of whether or not removing the metal shield actually affects sound or not.  I suspect the answer is proably no, but there might be some benefit to the grounding you get from the center pin at the very least.
> 
> These really are pretty special tubes.  Now that my cable snafu is resolved and my amp actually sounds good again I find it amazing how colorless the C3g itself is.  It really lets me hear the difference in character between my various 45s.  I've been to figure out if Sylvania made 45 globe tubes (themselves that is, not re-branding).  Their ST type 45s are head and shoulders better than others I have tried, but they can't touch my KenRad UX245 globes.  Globe type Sylvanias might be the top rung on the ladder.


 
  
 I did a lot of experiments with stripped and non-stripped C3Gs with my Wa5 (before I sold it) and Glenn 300B (before I broke it). I could not detect any SQ differences at all, or they were so tiny as to be undetectable given the many minutes required to let the amp cool down before swapping out the drivers. YMMV.
  
 Even though the stripped C3Gs are pretty, I have stopped doing it for a number of reasons:
 1) Stripping the cover is a hassle. Lots of filing and fiddling. I have cut myself on the sharp metal edges of the removed cover more than once.
 2) Doing all this puts the tube itself at risk. There is a finite supply of these wonderful tubes and I would feel pretty bad about breaking them unnecessarily.
 3) Pin alignment. Removing the cover will release the pin guide assembly - so you have to be most careful when inserting the tube to get the alignment correct (or epoxy the pin guide onto the base of the stripped tube). More hassle and more risk of something going wrong.
  
 My 2 cents - don't do it unless you are _*really *_hung up on the looks of the stripped tube (and it is "purdy" in a Deliverance kind of way)...


----------



## Xcalibur255

I totally agree with you and all of your points.  I found using the edge of a pocket knife the best way to peel up that stamped edge to get the outer layer of aluminum off.  I stabbed myself 3 times unshielding the two pairs of tubes I stripped.  Was not fun.
  
 They are such beautiful tubes in the bare glass, with those gold grids and delicate metalwork inside, but the one pair of naked C3gs I have (sold the other pair to somebody who was nervous about trying it himself) are the only naked pair I'll ever have I decided.  I ended up marking the location of the guide pin with a sharpie marker and I still feel uncomfortable when inserting the tubes.  I actually used to re-glue the guide pin base to the tubes, but the heat makes the glue brittle and they separate.  Then when you pull the tube out, the tube itself comes up but the base does not.  These are a *pain in the ass* to get out of the socket because there is nothing to grab onto and the center pin locks itself in quite firmly with it being a loctal socket and all.
  
 Tony have you used EML tubes much?  If you have how did you like them compared to other 300Bs you have used?  I'm thinking of getting a pair of EML 45s, but for the money I could get another pair of really nice globes instead.  I love my Ken Rad UX-245s but I have this urge to "save" them because I have no back up for them.  I've also found that 45s really sound a lot better when run hard, at or even slightly above max plate dissipation, but I can't bring myself to do this to my beloved globes without having a replacement pair on hand.  Even then I probably couldn't, I want them to last.  They sound better at 34ma than the ST type tubes do at 36 or 38 so I guess it's all good anyway.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> I totally agree with you and all of your points.  I found using the edge of a pocket knife the best way to peel up that stamped edge to get the outer layer of aluminum off.  I stabbed myself 3 times unshielding the two pairs of tubes I stripped.  Was not fun.
> 
> They are such beautiful tubes in the bare glass, with those gold grids and delicate metalwork inside, but the one pair of naked C3gs I have (sold the other pair to somebody who was nervous about trying it himself) are the only naked pair I'll ever have I decided.  I ended up marking the location of the guide pin with a sharpie marker and I still feel uncomfortable when inserting the tubes.  I actually used to re-glue the guide pin base to the tubes, but the heat makes the glue brittle and they separate.  Then when you pull the tube out, the tube itself comes up but the base does not.  These are a *pain in the ass* to get out of the socket because there is nothing to grab onto and the center pin locks itself in quite firmly with it being a loctal socket and all.
> 
> Tony have you used EML tubes much?  If you have how did you like them compared to other 300Bs you have used?  I'm thinking of getting a pair of EML 45s, but for the money I could get another pair of really nice globes instead.  I love my Ken Rad UX-245s but I have this urge to "save" them because I have no back up for them.  I've also found that 45s really sound a lot better when run hard, at or even slightly above max plate dissipation, but I can't bring myself to do this to my beloved globes without having a replacement pair on hand.  Even then I probably couldn't, I want them to last.  They sound better at 34ma than the ST type tubes do at 36 or 38 so I guess it's all good anyway.


 
  
 Yikes! I used a metal file to remove the rolled edge that holds the shell to the base. It is tedious, but the only hazard is the sharp edge that is left on the casing. I wouldn't like to try it with a pocket knife - I could see a very messy visit to the emergency department to get stitched up in my future.
  
 I did the same thing - marked the guide point with a sharpie on the glass. I also have blown up images of the inserted tubes to confirm the alignment in case the marker gets rubbed off. Still makes me nervous though. In the end, I made the call to stop doing it. YMMV.
  
 I want to try the mesh EML 300Bs, but have been a little put off by some reliability concerns and, frankly, the TA300B is such as awesome tube in every way that I can't really justify any other outlet for my 300B dollars. Why buy what is very likely to be an inferior tube (in terms of both performance and reliability) when those dollars could be put towards a backup set of Taks? I have tried quite a few 300Bs and the Taks are so far ahead of them all that I just can't think of a good reason to throw cash at anything else. The closest competition was the SERPs. Those are dark tubes with excellent bass, but the Taks have those magical mids that turn vocals into the voice of angels. I do have an EML rectifier that I use from time to time in my WA6 - but it is nothing special compared to the far cheaper (and readily available) NOS Brimar. Right now I have a TA274B in the WA6 - which is a little perverse - but the sound is rather good.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Sounds like it's a shame that Takatsuki doesn't make a 45.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> Sounds like it's a shame that Takatsuki doesn't make a 45.


 
  
 I wish they did. That and an 845 / 211 / 2A3. No doubt they would all sound superb.
  
 But what I would really, really like to see is someone, somewhere make a 6SN7 compatible driver tube that doesn't suck rancid donkey balls. I have tried pretty much all of them (new production 6SN7 compatibles) and to my ears they all suck pretty hard. None of them comes close to an NU or TS RP tube. What's so hard about making a 6SN7 that isn't harsh and nasty?
  
 I have 2 cartons full of RCA 6C8Gs that I picked up for about 5 bucks per tube. These have excellent detail and extension, but can tend to be a little on the harsh side - they need careful pairing for best performance. Anyway, my point is that these tubes are at least as good, if not better, than ANY of the new production 6SN7 compatible tubes I have tried, and I think I have tried them all at one time or another. The new production 6SN7 compatible tubes all SUCK at the moment.
  
 This is a real problem. Look at the current pricing of TS RPs / NUs and you get a feeling where we are going. These tubes are used in so many amps - what happens to the hobby when these tubes keep increasing in cost to the point of utter insanity? (the 6SN7 TS RP has already arrived at planet insanity for pricing IMHO).
  
 I'm sure EML or Takatsuki could make nice sounding 6SN7s as good as the NU / TS RP if they set their minds to it. The market demand is there, but it doesn't happen, and that's not a good thing for the hobby.
  
 OK - get a bit carried away there. Will put my soapbox away and resume lurking mode...


----------



## Rossliew

xcalibur255 said:


> There could be several sources for this.  Sometimes it's the tubes themselves.  I have not had the best of luck finding 6080 types that don't hum or buzz in some way.  If you are close to any kind of LCD display I have found these tubes pick up some kind of interference from them as well.  Remember also the higher your overall gain the more noise you'll get.  5998 and higher gain drivers like an ECC32 will amplify low level noise.  Generally when setup for 6AS7 my OTL was always nice and quiet.  For anything else there is generally some kind of hum present, I just accepted it as part of the game.  The 6BL7 should also be quiet in theory, but I *personally* had incredibly awful luck with these tubes.  Went through tube after tube that was noisy or temperamental.  Finally I thought I had found a good pair, true NOS flat plate, paid too much for them.  Then of course they shorted the second time I ever used them so into the trash they went.
> 
> My OTL is old, some of my experience might not be applicable since I have the oldest version of the power transformer.  As for power cords, it's the one thing I've never really played around with.  If you think you're getting a ground loop hum I would try plugging into a different electrical circuit to rule it out.  Maybe power cables make a real difference in a system, but it's the one line I haven't been tempted to cross yet.  I did find a very substantial and satisfying improvement across the board in SQ by switching all my RCA interconnects from my DAC to silver/copper hybrid cables (the Signal Cable Silver Resolution line).  Big improvement there, and the change that convinced me that "cable burn in" was also a real thing after seeing how much the sound swung back and forth from bright to dark during the first hundred hours I had them in use.




I realized it's not the cables that helped but rather it's the rectifier that's causing the awful hum. The 3DG4s were noisy with either 6336 or 6AS7 tubes. With the regular 5U4 type rectifiers they were quiet. Perhaps I need to search for an alternative to the 3DG4 if I still want the option of using the 6336..


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> I realized it's not the cables that helped but rather it's the rectifier that's causing the awful hum. The 3DG4s were noisy with either 6336 or 6AS7 tubes. With the regular 5U4 type rectifiers they were quiet. Perhaps I need to search for an alternative to the 3DG4 if I still want the option of using the 6336..


 
  
 Any rectifier that can provide at least 250 ma should work fine. I have used a Cossor 53KU (commonly called a "Fat GZ37") with a pair of 6336 and a Raytheon 5694, and it sounds pretty good. However, the 6336 is not one of my favorite power tubes, and since I don't have low-Z cans, I rarely use this combination.


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> Any rectifier that can provide at least 250 ma should work fine. I have used a Cossor 53KU (commonly called a "Fat GZ37") with a pair of 6336 and a Raytheon 5694, and it sounds pretty good. However, the 6336 is not one of my favorite power tubes, and since I don't have low-Z cans, I rarely use this combination.




The 53KU is expensive and like you I hardly use low impedance cans as well so I shall stick to the usual rectifiers with the 6AS7 combo instead.


----------



## Xcalibur255

tonynewman said:


> I wish they did. That and an 845 / 211 / 2A3. No doubt they would all sound superb.
> 
> OK - get a bit carried away there. Will put my soapbox away and resume lurking mode...


 
  
 I'm with you.  There is probably less money in reproducing the small signal tubes as opposed to big power tubes that wear out sooner.
  
 Jac Van der Walle of EML tries to encourage people to substitute the EML 30A tube in 6SN7 designs, but it's a directly heated triode so he's proposing a more complicated amplifier design in doing so.  I think there are some smart alternatives to the 6SN7 that sound good and are not well known, but it's hard for a designer to turn away from a tube that has so much data and experience behind it.  People *know* how to use the 6SN7, so they use it.  I could have run 6SN7s for my 45 amp, they would have been more than adequate, but I wanted to do something different.  So after stumbling around the internet look at tube articles I came across a crazy expensive amp using a tube called a C3g, asked Glenn if such a thing would work, and the rest is history.  Honestly I wonder to this day if it doesn't overdrive a 45, they actually both make about the same amount of power.  That's why I think doing an amp with ONLY the C3g tube as a single stage design, like the Yamamoto Soundcraft headphone amp, is such an interesting idea.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> ....  That's why I think doing an amp with ONLY the C3g tube as a single stage design, like the Yamamoto Soundcraft headphone amp, is such an interesting idea.


 
  
 Interesting idea. My only concern would be that the C3G is so very transparent. Where would the 'tube-i-ness' come from? The warmth and richness that typify tube sound - not sure the C3Gs on their own would give that. When I run the 300B Glenn amp with a very 'solid state' type of 300B - like the EAT - the sound isn't all that nice. Extremely detailed and extended, but that tube magic isn't happening for me. The PY500 rectifiers and C3G drivers add very little to the sound, as best I can tell. The tube magic comes from the 300B. Going all C3G might product a tube amp that mimics a SS amp - not sure that would be my thing (but it might be yours).
  
 My own tube fantasy amp would have C3Gs driving 845s. 20W of class A goodness. Two (or more) C3Gs driving each 845. According to Glenn's calculations, the PY500s have enough capacity to supply the 845 1:1. Why 20W to drive headphones? Why not? It's insane, but in a good way. The Lundahl transformers alone would be huge (and expensive). Glenn thinks I'm nutters whenever I mention it


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> rossliew said:
> 
> 
> > I realized it's not the cables that helped but rather it's the rectifier that's causing the awful hum. The 3DG4s were noisy with either 6336 or 6AS7 tubes. With the regular 5U4 type rectifiers they were quiet. Perhaps I need to search for an alternative to the 3DG4 if I still want the option of using the 6336..
> ...


 
  
 6336 tubes sound great with my Grado RS1......it is the only time that I use them though.......I might like to try a pair of Cetron 6336.....I think I remember somebody saying that they all pretty much sound the same, but I am not sure I am remembering that right.
  
 I am using Tung Sol.


----------



## Rossliew

Somehow the synergy between Glenn's OTL and Grados are truly a match made in heaven! Awesome, awesome bass slam and holographic reproduction of sound 
  
 The T1 may be getting less ear time, especially with my fav metal tunes..


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> Somehow the synergy between Glenn's OTL and Grados are truly a match made in heaven! Awesome, awesome bass slam and holographic reproduction of sound
> 
> The T1 may be getting less ear time, especially with my fav metal tunes..


 
 Totally agree,  I always thought the RS1 had a nice tight bass, sounded wonderful to my ears, paired with Glenn's amp it has even been stepped up a notch or two.


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> Totally agree,  I always thought the RS1 had a nice tight bass, sounded wonderful to my ears, paired with Glenn's amp it has even been stepped up a notch or two.


 

 And....i'm looking for a used pair of RS1s now


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> 6336 tubes sound great with my Grado RS1......it is the only time that I use them though.......I might like to try a pair of Cetron 6336.....I think I remember somebody saying that they all pretty much sound the same, but I am not sure I am remembering that right.
> 
> I am using Tung Sol.


 
  
 To the best of my knowledge, all these tubes were manufactured by a division of Tung-Sol. Cetron (formerly Continental Electric Co) ended up purchasing that Tung-Sol division in 1975.


----------



## whirlwind

^  Thank You, Ken. ^


----------



## Xcalibur255

tonynewman said:


> Interesting idea. My only concern would be that the C3G is so very transparent. Where would the 'tube-i-ness' come from? The warmth and richness that typify tube sound - not sure the C3Gs on their own would give that. When I run the 300B Glenn amp with a very 'solid state' type of 300B - like the EAT - the sound isn't all that nice. Extremely detailed and extended, but that tube magic isn't happening for me. The PY500 rectifiers and C3G drivers add very little to the sound, as best I can tell. The tube magic comes from the 300B. Going all C3G might product a tube amp that mimics a SS amp - not sure that would be my thing (but it might be yours).
> 
> My own tube fantasy amp would have C3Gs driving 845s. 20W of class A goodness. Two (or more) C3Gs driving each 845. According to Glenn's calculations, the PY500s have enough capacity to supply the 845 1:1. Why 20W to drive headphones? Why not? It's insane, but in a good way. The Lundahl transformers alone would be huge (and expensive). Glenn thinks I'm nutters whenever I mention it


 
  
 You probably wouldn't like my 45 amp very much then.  It's not dry or colorless by any means, but there is no "tubiness" to be found anywhere in it's sound signature either, especially in the wicked fast bass.  Honestly it sounds like a SS amp with better midrange tone color more than it does a tube amp.  Of course I can make it sound tubey by backing off the bias on the 45s, but I'm a transparency junkie so that's no fun for me.  
  
 845 tubes scare me to be honest.  1,200 watts on the plates?  DC?  The people who buy those Chinese 845 amps are a little too brave if you ask me.  I'm sure they sound amazing when setup right.  A really nice pair of Zu Audio speakers and a pair of 845 monos sounds pretty end game to me.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> You probably wouldn't like my 45 amp very much then.  It's not dry or colorless by any means, but there is no "tubiness" to be found anywhere in it's sound signature either, especially in the wicked fast bass.  Honestly it sounds like a SS amp with better midrange tone color more than it does a tube amp.  Of course I can make it sound tubey by backing off the bias on the 45s, but I'm a transparency junkie so that's no fun for me.
> 
> 845 tubes scare me to be honest.  1,200 watts on the plates?  DC?  The people who buy those Chinese 845 amps are a little too brave if you ask me.  I'm sure they sound amazing when setup right.  A really nice pair of Zu Audio speakers and a pair of 845 monos sounds pretty end game to me.


 
  
 Nope - the 45 amp sounds very much like my thing. Same concept as the Glenn 300B. The PY500s and C3Gs are transparent - the tube characteristics come from the 300B. What you get is very nearly SS for detail, dynamics, punch - but that lovely tube character of the 300B is also there. Same concept as the 45. I get it. My point is that if you go C3Gs all the way it is going to be a tube amp that sounds so like a SS unit that it might lose the point of tubes. Just a guess.
  
 I had an 845 integrated/power amp. A Triode unit - 42kg of amp. I am a reasonably large guy and my spine would nearly fold in half lifting this thing around. It used 6SN7s to drive 2A3s to drive 845s. Way too much tube colour in play - it was soft, slow and syrupy. Not a good choice. My thought is that all you need throwing "tube-i-ness" into the game is the power tube. Keep the rectification transparent (PY500 or solid state) and use C3G drivers. Then roll the power tubes to get the sound you like. "Tube-lite".
  
 845s can be a little scary. The amount of heat they pump out is awesome - 200W. It is like having a BBQ in your lounge. The 1000V across the plates and the huge amount of capacitance in the amp can be lethal. I would not have an 845 amp in the house with cats / small kids around. YMMV. They are impressive beasts, to be sure, but not all that practical.
  
 Have to make mention of the Violectric V281 amp. This is the only SS unit I have ever heard that produces a holographic effect similar to the better tube amps I have owned (Glenn 300B / WA5). It also has a touch of warmth, without sacrificing detail or dynamics to do it. Amazing unit. Lucky to have it while my Glenn 300B is getting fixed. Anyone in the market for a SS amp upgrade should try and audition the V281.


----------



## gibosi

Those whose amps do not use 5-volt rectifiers might want to skip this post....
  
 Some time ago, Glenn asked if I would be interested in trying a Mullard FW4/500 rectifier. This is a 4-volt rectifier, as opposed to the many more common 5-volt types out there, and it uses a British 4-pin B4 base. Of course I said YES! 
  
 To begin, putting 5 volts into a 4-volt rectifier would likely cause it to burn-up in short order. But fortunately, Chinese adapters exist that use resisters to reduce 5 volts down to 4, thus allowing an FW4/500 to safely run in a standard 5-volt rectifier socket. 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/281951474535
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261772342579
  
 After some time studying these tubes, I have come to the conclusion that Mullard, Cossar and GEC/MOV all manufactured a 4-volt rectifier on a B4 base capable of putting out 250 ma. Further, it appears that in each case, the manufacturer took an existing 5-volt octal rectifer and simply swapped in a 4-volt heater and a B4 base, rather than designing a whole new rectifier. Or is it the case that the 5-volt rectifiers were later versions of these 4-volt tubes?  Either way, it seems that these are not really "new" rectifiers, but simply 4-volt versions of well-known 5-volt rectifiers...
  
 These rectifiers have the following designations: FW4/500, 45-IU and U18/20.
  

  
 Mullard manufactured the FW4/500, which appears to be a 4-volt version of their 5U4G. Cossor manufactured the 45-IU, which appears to be a 4-volt version of their 53KU. And GEC/MOV manufactured the U18/20, which appears to be a 4-volt version of their U52.
  
 While I have a Cossor 53KU for comparison, I do not have the Mullard 5U4G or the GEC U52. I can say that I am unable to detect any difference between the Cossor 45-IU and the Cossor 53KU. In the case of the other two rectifiers, I have relied heavily on comparing construction details using pictures of the Mullard 5U4G and the GEC/MOV U52. Further, in listening, the FW4/500 reminds me somewhat of a Mullard GZ37. It is my understanding that the GZ37, which was introduced in 1958, was intended to be an update to the Mullard 5U4G, so I don't find this to be all that surprising. And as for the U18/20, my impressions generally conform to Dubstep Girl's comments regarding the U52.
  
 Assuming my conclusions are correct, rather than attempting to describe the sound of these tubes at length, instead, I refer the reader to the many reviews of the Cossor 53KU, Mullard GZ37 and GEC/MOV U52 available here on HF (Dubstep Girl's rectifier comparison) and elsewhere. 
  
 To make things even more interesting, it appears that these 4-volt rectifiers were considered completely interchangeable and therefore relabeled tubes are common. This is especially true with the U18/20. At least on eBay, quite a few of the U18/20 sporting GEC/MOV paint and/or paper stickers appear to be relabeled Mullard FW4/500. These rectifiers were also used by the British military and typically labeled as AU1 and CV1264. Again, I have seen these military designations on all three. Therefore, when purchasing these tubes, it is most important to closely examine the construction, as the labeling cannot be trusted.
  
 Anyway, it's been fun to check out these old British 4-volt rectifiers and I hope others might find this information useful and interesting.
  
 Cheers!
  
 Cossor 45-IU in action


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> Those whose amps do not use 5-volt rectifiers might want to skip this post....
> 
> Some time ago, Glenn asked if I would be interested in trying a Mullard FW4/500 rectifier. This is a 4-volt rectifier, as opposed to the many more common 5-volt types out there, and it uses a British 4-pin B4 base. Of course I said YES!
> 
> ...



I had heard this a while back and now I'm going to try it. 
Thanks


----------



## whirlwind

^^ Very nice, gibosi .  ^^
  
 I am glad to report  that what I thought was a bad socket on one of my adapters, was in the tubes, four new tubes and I have finally heard these tubes with a wonderful black back round.
  
 I am pretty happy right now....going to leave these in for a while.........may have to slap the C3g's in there also.


----------



## Rossliew

Very happy to report back that my 3DG4/6336 combo works with a very low level hum now as compared to a high pitched hum previously. Don't know why or how it improved but happy to be able to use this combo. Works equally well with both low-Z and high-Z cans.
  
 Tried the 6AS7/3DG4 combo as well and found it to sound less lush and more solid state like but with some added air in the sound. Nice! 
  
 On a separate note, my 6BL7s have arrived and i think the adapters are here as well, just awaiting collection at the post office. Got some nice tube rolling action tomorrow after work


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Very happy to report back that my 3DG4/6336 combo works with a very low level hum now as compared to a high pitched hum previously. Don't know why or how it improved but happy to be able to use this combo. Works equally well with both low-Z and high-Z cans.
> 
> Tried the 6AS7/3DG4 combo as well and found it to sound less lush and more solid state like but with some added air in the sound. Nice!
> 
> On a separate note, my 6BL7s have arrived and i think the adapters are here as well, just awaiting collection at the post office. Got some nice tube rolling action tomorrow after work


 

 In a recent test the 3DG4 beat all the 5volt rectifiers including the GZ37.  There is no reason the 3DG4 would have more hum
 then a 5U4GB.


----------



## Rossliew

Noted with thanks, Glenn  I'm just happy I get to use the tubes and they don't go to waste no matter how cheaply they can be had. Now I want to hear what the 6BL7 fuss is all about


----------



## TonyNewman

My Glenn 300B has been repaired and I pick it up this weekend. Have a set of TA300Bs on order (sold my previous sets).
  
 I'll be thrilled to get this amp back


----------



## Khragon

Nice Tony, glad you're back with the Glenn 300B!  Some pictures when you get a chance 
  
 I guess I should save up for a Tak instead of playing with DAC. But I think the M11 is a bit dark to pair with a tube amp so I grab myself the Vi DAC Infinity when the opportunity present itself.  Much clearer than my M11, but lost a bit of that midrange sweetness.  I'm hoping paring it with Glenn 300B and Elrog will bring that back while maintaining the clarity.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Nice Tony, glad you're back with the Glenn 300B!  Some pictures when you get a chance
> 
> I guess I should save up for a Tak instead of playing with DAC. But I think the M11 is a bit dark to pair with a tube amp so I grab myself the Vi DAC Infinity when the opportunity present itself.  Much clearer than my M11, but lost a bit of that midrange sweetness.  I'm hoping paring it with Glenn 300B and Elrog will bring that back while maintaining the clarity.


 
  
 Wow - if I have the right DAC from my Google attempts that thing is worth more than my mortgage. Ultra, ultra, ultra Fi.
  
 I was impressed with the improvements from my Vega to the Hegel HD30. I wonder what that sort of hardware could do for my system - 5% better? 10% better? 20% better? I'll never know, but I do wonder what the ultra ultra gear can do.
  
 EDIT - I did have the wrong DAC. I am getting an MSRP somewhere around the 4K to 5K mark. Not my mortgage (unfortunately).
  
 IF you are looking for a DAC with excellent nuetrality, detail, clarity and dynamics I can highly recommend the Hegel HD30. It ticks all those boxes for me.


----------



## Khragon

Hehe no I can't afford that one.. LH TOTL DAC is the Da Vinci (Sire if it comes out), Vi DAC is their TOTL Sabre DAC albeit with the newer chip and femto clocks.
  
 How does Hegel HD30 paired with Glenn 300B?


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> ...
> 
> How does Hegel HD30 paired with Glenn 300B?


 
  
 Can't say as I have not had the Glenn 300B operational while I have the Hegel HD30. I am expecting great things. Makes and excellent DAC - Amp pairing with the V281.


----------



## mourip

khragon said:


> Nice Tony, glad you're back with the Glenn 300B!  Some pictures when you get a chance


 
  
 +1 for pictures!


----------



## TonyNewman

I'll post some 300B porn once I get the amp back and setup.
  
 Only 300Bs I have right now are EATs. Wonderful detail and extension, but not a lot of warmth happening with them. I bought them ages ago when I was running a WA5 - wanted something to tone down the euphony of that amp a little.


----------



## Rossliew

Got my adapters and 6BL7s...gosh the hum is strong..that dull droning. Making it quite unbearable really. Using 3 sylvanias and 3 GECs per side


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Got my adapters and 6BL7s...gosh the hum is strong..that dull droning. Making it quite unbearable really. Using 3 sylvanias and 3 GECs per side


 
  
 First, clean the pins very, very good. I use fine-grit sandpaper. And then, give them some time.... They may well quiet down after 20 hours or so....
  
 Umm... I am pretty sure that British GEC did not manufacture the 6BL7. I assume you have three American GE?


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> First, clean the pins very, very good. I use fine-grit sandpaper. And then, give them some time.... They may well quiet down after 20 hours or so....
> 
> Umm... I am pretty sure that British GEC did not manufacture the 6BL7. I assume you have three American GE?


 

 Thanks for the advice, G...i need more patience then!
  
 Yes, they are American GE, my bad.


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> In a recent test the 3DG4 beat all the 5volt rectifiers including the GZ37.  There is no reason the 3DG4 would have more hum
> then a 5U4GB.



Glenn Need your help with the EL3N. Can you PM me?


----------



## Rossliew

Trying out a new tube combo :
  
 Philips 5R4GYS/WE421A/B65 - doesn't sound as strong as the 3DG4/6336/Chrome Dome 6SN7 with my low Z cans (Oppo PM2 and SR-225e)..a bit disappointing really. Sounds a bit lean/thin, not much heft in the lower registers and sharp up top.
  
 BUT, it sounds better with my Beyer T1 2nd gen....odd but i guess that's how it is with head-fi : all about the synergy i suppose. Need to try another rectifier, perhaps i will get a fuller sound.


----------



## leftside

My favorite combo is WE 421A/WE 274A/B65,  but different headphones and different head amp


----------



## Rossliew

leftside said:


> My favorite combo is WE 421A/WE 274A/B65,  but different headphones and different head amp


 

 Nice rig!
  
 I tried swapping rectifiers with the 3DG4 but it developed a slightly high pitched hum which was affecting my listening but more importantly, it didn't improve the lean sound, just maybe a smidgeon better.
  
 Now using the USAF596 rectifier and i'm getting back that nice fuller sound and driving the PM2s pretty well. A smile has returned to my face  I would say this combo has more sub-bass than mid-bass so it may not sound as fun but it can shake the drivers when the recording has the necessary sub-bass.


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Got my adapters and 6BL7s...gosh the hum is strong..that dull droning. Making it quite unbearable really. Using 3 sylvanias and 3 GECs per side


 

 What rectifier are you using there?


----------



## gibosi

My favorite combo at the moment... if you ask me next week, it will likely be different lol 
  
 A quad of 3-mica Sylvania 6BX7, GEC U18/20 and Lorenz C3g (1960's embossed flat-black cans). With the same rectifier and output tubes and a pair of Siemens C3g the presentation was just a bit too bright for my ears. Swapped in the slightly more laid-back Lorenz and the magic is back.


----------



## Xcalibur255

rossliew said:


> Trying out a new tube combo :
> 
> Philips 5R4GYS/WE421A/B65 - doesn't sound as strong as the 3DG4/6336/Chrome Dome 6SN7 with my low Z cans (Oppo PM2 and SR-225e)..a bit disappointing really. Sounds a bit lean/thin, not much heft in the lower registers and sharp up top.
> 
> BUT, it sounds better with my Beyer T1 2nd gen....odd but i guess that's how it is with head-fi : all about the synergy i suppose. Need to try another rectifier, perhaps i will get a fuller sound.


 

 5R4GY has a lot of voltage drop when used in this application, this is likely your culprit.  My love for this tube in the IHA-1 doesn't extend to use in the OTL sadly.  For low Z cans I have always found 3DG4 >> B65 >> 5998 to be as good as it gets for my ears.  For high Z I just replace the 5998s with 6520s instead.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> What rectifier are you using there?




That was the WE422A...not a good pairing you reckon?


----------



## Rossliew

xcalibur255 said:


> 5R4GY has a lot of voltage drop when used in this application, this is likely your culprit.  My love for this tube in the IHA-1 doesn't extend to use in the OTL sadly.  For low Z cans I have always found 3DG4 >> B65 >> 5998 to be as good as it gets for my ears.  For high Z I just replace the 5998s with 6520s instead.



Ah thanks for the input there- much appreciated! I don't have 5998s yet but I could try the 6080s instead. Will do so tonight and let's see how it goes


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > What rectifier are you using there?
> ...


 

 Do you have a adapter for it?  It needs a adapter or it might give a slight hum.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Do you have a adapter for it?  It needs a adapter or it might give a slight hum.




Yes it came with an adapter. I haven't gotten round to cleaning the pins of the 6bl7s though. The same hum was present wih the 3dg4 as well


----------



## punit

rossliew said:


> I don't have 5998s yet but I could try the 6080s instead.


 
 The WE421A is an Uber 5998. You are running the WE421A with the 5998 / 6080 switch on 5998, right ?


----------



## Rossliew

punit said:


> The WE421A is an Uber 5998. You are running the WE421A with the 5998 / 6080 switch on 5998, right ?




Oh I have not tried the 6080 yet. Tonight will be the night and I will post impressions thereafter


----------



## punit

rossliew said:


> Oh I have not tried the 6080 yet. Tonight will be the night and I will post impressions thereafter


 
 What i meant is - there is a switch at the back for switching between 5998 & 6080. The WE421A & 6336 are meant to be run with the switch on 5998 setting.


----------



## Rossliew

punit said:


> What i meant is - there is a switch at the back for switching between 5998 & 6080. The WE421A & 6336 are meant to be run with the switch on 5998 setting.




Yes understood. I used the 5998 switch.


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> rossliew said:
> 
> 
> > Oh I have not tried the 6080 yet. Tonight will be the night and I will post impressions thereafter
> ...


 
 This switch gives the 5998 a heck of a lot of authority, love these tubes in my amp.
  
 I am going to try two per channel, just for the fun of it...even though I know that it will be overkill.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> punit said:
> 
> 
> > rossliew said:
> ...


 

 You never can tell four 5998s might sound great!  Never tried it I only have two 5998s


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> You never can tell four 5998s might sound great!  Never tried it I only have two 5998s




I recall reading that the amp can even take 2 6as7 per channel. Is this true?


----------



## gibosi

Yes, in your Glenn OTL, you can run four, or two per-channel, of each of the following: 6080, 6AS7, 5998, WE421A, 7236, 6H13, 6N5P or 6520.


----------



## leftside

punit said:


> The WE421A is an Uber 5998. You are running the WE421A with the 5998 / 6080 switch on 5998, right ?


 
 Some WE421A's are rebranded 5998's. Some are "Uber". I posted my findings and pics in this thread:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/506133/visual-evidence-tung-sol-5998-western-electric-421/15


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> Yes, in your Glenn OTL, you can run four, or two per-channel, of each of the following: 6080, 6AS7, 5998, WE421A, 7236, 6H13, 6N5P or 6520.


 

 Would one be able to mix and match e.g. two 6080 on one channel and another two WE421A on the other?


----------



## Rossliew

On a separate note, i am now listening to the following tube combo :
  
 USAF 596 (w/ adapter)/WE421A/Sylvania Chrome Dome 6SN7
  
 I'm getting back some familiar body to the music - tonally it is more fleshy and fuller bodied with more audible bass but not bloated. Almost Stax-like in bass through my PM-2s i.e. bass can be heard but not felt like a punch in the gut. Curiously everything sounds balanced although it is not heart-thumpingly so. Pardon my lack of expressive words to describe the listening experience. More mids-centric but not in the romantic midrange sound of an LCD2 for example.


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Would one be able to mix and match e.g. two 6080 on one channel and another two WE421A on the other?


 
  
 You can... but why would you? Normally, we want to treat both channels as equal as possible. To use a pair of 6080 on one side and a pair of 421A on the other would be like using two different amplifiers, one for each channel. Seems way too strange to me......
  
 But installing one 6080 and one 421A in each channel, would be perfectly acceptable.


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> You can... but why would you? Normally, we want to treat both channels as equal as possible. To use a pair of 6080 on one side and a pair of 421A on the other would be like using two different amplifiers, one for each channel. Seems way too strange to me......
> 
> But installing one 6080 and one 421A in each channel, would be perfectly acceptable.


 

 Hahahaha...just a thought! Nonetheless, good to learn about this flexibility but i suppose one may get channel imbalances of some sort due to the different output ratings of the respective tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

leftside said:


> Some WE421A's are rebranded 5998's. Some are "Uber". I posted my findings and pics in this thread:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/506133/visual-evidence-tung-sol-5998-western-electric-421/15


 

 This is an interesting discovery if true.  It's been widely believed that all 421A tubes were made by Tung-Sol, the minor differences attributable to what was likely a tighter tolerance specification imposed by WE.  The 5998s themselves varied quite a bit in terms of small construction details which also made it hard to nail down.
  
 You're probably going to send the price of these tubes skyrocketing on eBay.


----------



## TonyNewman

My baby is back and working perfectly. Local repair fellow has done a fantastic job.
  
 Unfortunately the only 300Bs I have on hand right now are EATs. These are excellent quality tubes (similar to EML flat plate) but they are very neutral and "solid state" sounding. Combined with the ultra-transparent PY500 and C3Gs you get a result that doesn't have much tube magic happening. Extremely detailed and extended - but the tonality isn't what you would expect from a tube amp. A solid state sound from a highly capable tube amp. I originally got the EATs to calm down my WA5 - sometimes it could get a little too euphonic and "tubey".
  
 A set of TA300Bs are on order. Until they show up I will have to "slum it" with the EATs - some amp porn:
  

  
 Running the bias at 60mA for now. SQ is excellent.
  
 EDIT - after an hour or so running the EATs the tubes have settled down a little and the tonality is not so bad. Still missing that Takatsuki magic, but these are _*very *_nice 300Bs. Detail and treble extension are excellent, bass is not quite as powerful and tight as the Taks but is still very good. There is some limited mid range tube goodness but the Taks reign supreme here.
  
 These EATs had plenty of hours on them, but had been sitting idle for about 6 months prior to the repair. Not surprising that they might a few hours to "wake up".
  
 For emotional engagement the V281 is still the winner, but I think a more appropriate 300B will change that.


----------



## gibosi

I am very skeptical about the claim that WE421A were being manufactured as late as 1985. Halo getters began to appear around 1960. And therefore, based on the getter shape alone, that tube could have been manufactured as early as the mid-1960's. I would like to see what markings and/or other construction details folks are using to conclude that it was manufactured in 1985....
  
 Switching to music, which I assume is the reason most of us have a Glenn amp, is anyone else listening to Sam Beam and Jesca Hoop's new album, "Love Letter for Fire"? In my opinion, this is really good stuff. 
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAzgRAs-qAs
  
 And I am still really digging the Sylvania 6BX7/GEC U18/20 combo, and have begun to roll through my collection of E80CC/6085. I have four manufactured by Philips, one each from Eindhoven, Hamburg, Heerlen and New York, and one manufactured by Tungsram. For those not familiar with this tube, it has significantly lower distortion and better linearity than the C3g and is considered by some as a premium version of the 12AU7. It is a wonderful tube used as a driver in an OTL, but unfortunately, it isn't powerful enough to drive a 300B. These have the same pinout as a 12AU7, and can therefore be run in 12-volt circuits (using a 6DJ8/6SN7 adapter) or 6-volt circuits (using a 12AU7/6SN7 adapter).
  
  
 Tungsram (1961) on the left and Philips/Eindhoven (1955) on the right


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> I am very skeptical about the claim that WE421A were being manufactured as late as 1985. Halo getters began to appear around 1960. And therefore, based on the getter shape alone, that tube could have been manufactured as early as the mid-1960's. I would like to see what markings and/or other construction details folks are using to conclude that it was manufactured in 1985....


 
 I am also not convinced. This is what I was told by Brent Jesse:
 "The 8526 indicates most likely the 26th week of 1985. The 813 may be 13th week of 1958"
  
 I'm going to ask a few more tube sellers I know. I'll update the other thread if I find out anything. All I know for sure is that I have a TS 5998 and a WE421A that look exactly the same, and a WE421A that looks completely different.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> I am also not convinced. This is what I was told by Brent Jesse:
> "The 8526 indicates most likely the 26th week of 1985. The 813 may be 13th week of 1958"
> 
> I'm going to ask a few more tube sellers I know. I'll update the other thread if I find out anything. All I know for sure is that I have a TS 5998 and a WE421A that look exactly the same, and a WE421A that looks completely different.


 
  
 I would agree that "8526" sure seems to indicate 1985. Interesting... I would never have guessed that this tube was still being manufactured at that time. But Cetron did purchase some part of Tung-Sol in the 1970's. And it is my understanding that power regulator tubes were among the last vacuum tubes to be replaced by suitable solid state devices. So it would seem that Cetron kept this part of the business going as long as there was adequate demand.
  
 Regarding the two different WE421As....  In my experience, for reasons we can only guess, incorrectly labeled tubes are not all that uncommon. For example, we occasionally see the wrong tube number, the wrong brand and even the wrong country of origin. And thus, my rule is the label should never to be trusted. It is always necessary to closely examine the construction to determine if the label is accurate.
  
 I continue to believe that all WE421A have bottom getters. And thus, in my opinion, if the tube has top getters, it is a 5998, and not a WE421A. That said, not all 5998 have top getters. Once in awhile we see a 5998 with bottom getters. My conjecture is that these 5998 with bottom getters are simply WE421A that did not test up to spec when measured in the factory. Even though they failed to meet WE421A specifications, they still met or exceeded 5998 specifications, and rather than throw them away, they were distributed and sold as 5998.
  
 So it appears that you have a 5998 that was labeled incorrectly as a WE421A. The construction - top getters, and your own listening tests would seem to substantiate this conclusion.
  
 My advice, when looking to purchase WE421A, if there are top getters, let someone else buy them.  And I suggest that it might also be worthwhile to keep an eye out for 5998 with bottom getters. If my conjecture is correct, even though these tubes didn't test good enough to be labeled as WE421A, they just might still sound like WE421A.
  
 But again, this is just my attempt to make sense of what we see.... and I could well be wrong....
  
 Cheers


----------



## SonicTrance

^^
 Well said gibosi!
  
 I've actually seen quite a few WE421A's on ebay with date codes suggesting 198X. No 5998's with 1980's codes though. Not sure what to make of that.
  
 Edit: Here's an example:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-2-Western-Electric-421A-matched-pair-NOS-with-original-box-6AS7-5998-6080-/182023348072?hash=item2a616fdf68%3Ag%3A~HYAAOSwe7BWv~xc&nma=true&si=G4WS8G%252BCg4ABqHYlKb8eb%252F9S3L8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
  
 They used a different font for the yellow branding on the newer tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Schiit Yggdrasil + Glenn 45 DHT + MrSpeakers Ether =


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> Schiit Yggdrasil + Glenn 45 DHT + MrSpeakers Ether =


 
  
 Any chance of a picture or two? Feel the need for some amp porn.


----------



## whirlwind

Tyrell, I would love to see a pic also  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 How are you liking the Ether....it is the next can on my list...I bought a semi - vintage RS1 and was planning to use some of that cash on the Ether.


----------



## Rossliew

I'm finding myself listening with my planars more regularly as compared to my Beyers with the OTL...somehow the 5998 setting is really putting out some magic. Perhaps time to get some 5998 tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

New C3g > 6BL7 amp


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> New C3g > 6BL7 amp




Work of art!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I am never going to figure out which variant of amp I'll want....
  
 Each one brings something new to the table.


----------



## TonyNewman

buttuglyjeff said:


> I am never going to figure out which variant of amp I'll want....
> 
> Each one brings something new to the table.


 

 If in doubt, the 300B version is a safe option. Only downside I can think of is the cost of the best 300Bs - those things are pricey.


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> I'm finding myself listening with my planars more regularly as compared to my Beyers with the OTL...somehow the 5998 setting is really putting out some magic. Perhaps time to get some 5998 tubes.


 
  
 Which output tubes are you using with the 5998 setting?


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> New C3g > 6BL7 amp
> 
> Ermmm...what is the waiting period for this amp?









gibosi said:


> Which output tubes are you using with the 5998 setting?




WE421a. Best combo thus far to my ears : WE422a/WE421a/Mullard 6F8G

Clean sounding with good bass tightness with a touch of warmth. Good with my PM2


----------



## lukeap69

rossliew said:


> Ermmm...what is the waiting period for this amp?




I say almost one year. If this baby monster reached me this month -that would be 11 months since asking Glenn to build it for me.


----------



## Khragon

A pair of we421a on eBay is $600, about half of a good set of 300B, wonder how that compare to 300B. The thing I like about 300B is that there are great in production tubes available.


----------



## punit

rossliew said:


> WE421a. Best combo thus far to my ears : WE422a/WE421a/Mullard 6F8G
> 
> Clean sounding with good bass tightness with a touch of warmth. Good with my PM2




Which Mullard 6F8G is this ?


----------



## Rossliew

lukeap69 said:


> I say almost one year. If this baby monster reached me this month -that would be 11 months since asking Glenn to build it for me.




Ok that's too long for me lol



punit said:


> Which Mullard 6F8G is this ?




My bad! It's the tung sol one  Must have been the good tunes bending my mind lol


----------



## lukeap69

rossliew said:


> Ok that's too long for me lol




As they say Patience is a virtue and Good things come to those who wait.

Oh man, I can't wait to receive this thing. I will call her Darna!


----------



## TonyNewman

This thread needs more amp porn. Please excuse my less than stellar photography skills.
  
 I encourage other Glenn amp owners to post some pics of their favorite setup.
  
 I am running Telefunken PY500s and defrocked Lorenz C3g. I can't pick any sonic differences in any PY500 / C3g - I like the Telefunkens because they look cool and have a nice glow.
  
 The HD800S loves powerful tube amps. The HD800 did too, but now that the treble peak is fixed and the bass is present, this is an AWESOME headphone for a Glenn amp.
  
 The EAT 300Bs aren't the best match for this amp + headphone combination. Taks are on order.


----------



## Khragon

Night shot please


----------



## Rossliew

Not night shots but I thought they look good with light reflection on the tubes..


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Night shot please


 
  
 I wish I had the gear + skill to do a good night shot that captures the lovely orange glow of the Telefunken PY500s. I would need a camera with a wide aperture setting and slow shutter speed, and probably a tripod to avoid blurring the image.
  
 Anyone out there that can take a good night shot that captures the glow?


----------



## TonyNewman

rossliew said:


> ...
> 
> Not night shots but I thought they look good with light reflection on the tubes..


 
  
 Nice! Is that a TS RP driver? What other tubes are you running in that shot?


----------



## Rossliew

This is truly one mighty rectifier, working well with all combo of tubes. Such a versatile tube and it looks good too. Always never fails to elicit a "wow" look from my friends and family


----------



## Rossliew

tonynewman said:


> Nice! Is that a TS RP driver? What other tubes are you running in that shot?




Yes a Tung Sol 6f8g. Superb fixit tube for me as well. Others are the WE422a rec and a pair of WE421a powers. Lovely lovely combo when paired with my PM2.


----------



## lukeap69

looks like an angel. or Sarah Kerrigan!


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> I wish I had the gear + skill to do a good night shot that captures the lovely orange glow of the Telefunken PY500s. I would need a camera with a wide aperture setting and slow shutter speed, and probably a tripod to avoid blurring the image.
> 
> Anyone out there that can take a good night shot that captures the glow?


 

 Up the ISO, sensor grain adds to the effect too, keep shutter at 1/10 ish, open the aperature wide, take a deep breath press the shuttle button but don't release it until the photo is taken.  But you're right, tripod/chair work much better


----------



## Rossliew

Anyone can share if the LCD2 pre fazor would be well driven by the OTL on 5998 setting?


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Up the ISO, sensor grain adds to the effect too, keep shutter at 1/10 ish, open the aperature wide, take a deep breath press the shuttle button but don't release it until the photo is taken.  But you're right, tripod/chair work much better


 
  
 Best I can do with my craptastic camera - I really need to update it, but all my 'spare' cash tends to go towards audio gear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quite a bit of blur and it really doesn't do justice to the Telefunkens.
  
 Another PY500 with really nice glow is the RCA - the big fat ones. They glow like crazy.


----------



## Rossliew

Whilst listening to Slayer with the T1


----------



## Khragon

Not a bad shot, those Telefunkens are bright! The C3gs aren't bad either.  Where do you get your telefunkens?


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Not a bad shot, those Telefunkens are bright! The C3gs aren't bad either.  Where do you get your telefunkens?


 
  
 EBarf. They tend to be a little pricey compared to other PY500s (but positively cheap compared to some 6SN7s).
  
 Just picked up another 4 in excellent condition.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> EBarf. They tend to be a little pricey compared to other PY500s (but positively cheap compared to some 6SN7s).
> 
> Just picked up another 4 in excellent condition.


 

 Nice, lucky!  I've been following eBay for a while and only manage to get a set.  Hopefully I'll be a able to get more eventually.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> New C3g > 6BL7 amp


 
 A real beauty Glenn.....this will sound wonderful


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

rossliew said:


> Whilst listening to Slayer with the T1


 
  
 Could you give this tube noob a rundown of this amp and tube compliment?  It looks quite impressive...


----------



## Rossliew

buttuglyjeff said:


> Could you give this tube noob a rundown of this amp and tube compliment?  It looks quite impressive...




This, my friend is a world renowned Glenn OTL amp but it's one of his earlier models. If I'm not mistaken the newer ones use better transformers. Yet this is one fine sounding amp and very flexible in terms of tube rolling. It's traditionally paired with high impedance headphones but with the switch to use 5998/6080 power tubes, there is greater current capability to drive the more sensitive low impedance headphones. 

Others here like Gibosi have one which utilizes different tube configuration and yet provides even more flexibility in tube rolling. This is one of the best OTL head amps you can get and at a very reasonable price for the high build quality Glenn provides. Which all translates into longer build times.

My version uses the following tube combo for high impedance headphone usage :

5UG (rectifier)/6AS7 ( power)/ 6SN7 (driver)

And the following for low impedance usage :

5UG/5998 or 6080 (power)/6SN7


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> Tyrell, I would love to see a pic also
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I wasn't sold at first, but I'm really starting to like it now.  If I switch back to the LCD-2 at this point it's _painfully_ obvious how inaccurate their tonal balance is compared to Ether.  I think what Tyll said about the Ether-C also applies to the open back Ether now that it has the 1.1 verison tuning:  you almost instinctively start to just trust what your ears are telling you because you know you can trust the messenger.  The two gripes that are common about this headphone, namely that they are a little light in the bass and a little bright in the treble, is not what I'm hearing at all.  They're actually smoother and punchier than the LCD-2 in my setup.  I may explore a silver cable for the Ether since my fears of too much treble are definitely put to bed, upgrading to silver from the DAC to my amps was a very positive change all around and made me think about my cables a lot more in general.  More than anything they sound very neutral/balanced without being boring or sterile at all, and are a general step up in performance all around from the LCD-2.  The imaging in particular is much better, I never realized how bad the LCD-2 was at this until now.  I can localize every individual note in a recording precisely in 3-dimensional space while listening to the Ethers.
  
 The only drawback I'm feeling at this point is that they may actually be too efficient/sensitive.  They're almost unusable with the Inspire IHA-1, there is a substantial amount of magnetic field hum in the right channel that was never an issue with my other headphones.  On the Glenn 45 amp I have no noise issues due to the amp itself (Glenn really outdid himself with how quiet he got this amp), but I'm discovering several of my 45 tubes have noise and microphonics issues that I couldn't hear before which is a bummer.  The music is already quite loud with the volume at only 9 o'clock.  I think in their effforts to make planars easier to drive these days manufacturers might actually be going too far with it now, considering that other design trade-offs happen in order to achieve it I think they need to retreat back to a solid middle ground at this point.
  
 I should note the Yggrasil is a big part of the magic I'm hearing.  It took the performance of the whole system up in a big way.  Between that and the cable upgrades I'm at a whole different level in terms of resolution now.  It was my gut feeling that Glenn's amp was being held back by my DAC, and I was right, the 45 is really an incredible amp with the new and improved signal chain no longer representing a bottleneck for it.
  
 As for photos...... I'll see if I can figure something out.  There's really no place to lay the Ether so it's in the picture with the amp, the cart everything sits on is pretty small.  That and I'm _really_ not a good photo taker.


----------



## Xcalibur255

rossliew said:


> Anyone can share if the LCD2 pre fazor would be well driven by the OTL on 5998 setting?


 
 I primarily listened to my OTL this way with this headphone.  I always enjoyed it a lot.  It can sound just a bit soft in some ways depending upon your driver choice, or if you're using to hear the LCD-2 from a solid state amp, but the detail is there and it plays to the headphone's strengths more than you might expect actually.


----------



## Rossliew

xcalibur255 said:


> I primarily listened to my OTL this way with this headphone.  I always enjoyed it a lot.  It can sound just a bit soft in some ways depending upon your driver choice, or if you're using to hear the LCD-2 from a solid state amp, but the detail is there and it plays to the headphone's strengths more than you might expect actually.




Thanks for that. I just read your post above on the Ether as well. I too found it to be a bit light sounding and not really fun sounding when I listened briefly at a local meet. And that was with the Yggy/Rag stack.


----------



## lukeap69

Few more pics of my OTL Darna from Glenn. Hope @2359glenn doesn't mind me posting these.
  
 This one is impressive (I am a photographer so I am not easily impressed with photos but this one is)
  

  
  

  
  
 Look at that neat Lundahl trafo!

  
  

  
  

  
 I hope to receive this bad boy soon!
  
 Thanks Glenn.
  
 Arnold


----------



## TonyNewman

Nice pics - thanks for posting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sharing amp porn is to be encouraged.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I don't have my KenRad UX245 Globes in my amp right now, and you _gotta_ have globes in your 45 if you are going to share photos of it.  
  
 Really looking forward to the day I try that again too.  It sounds wonderful right now, and the globes are a solid step up over the ST tubes I'm using currently.  Very exciting.
  
 I'm really considering trying a pair of EML 45's too, can't decide between that or buying another good pair of globes.  I'd like to have something top tier to fall back on in case a tube goes bad.


----------



## gibosi

As I am quite liking the GEC U18/20 / Sylvania 6BX7GT combo, have been digging deep into my stash to find drivers to retry. Based on a posting by Jamato8 in the 6SN7 thread sometime ago, I had tried a couple RCA 76 but didn't much care for them with 6AS7/6080/5998. However, in this configuration, they sound great.
  
 Interestingly, these are fairly old, manufactured in 1943, and they are dead quiet with the original Glenn OTL transformer, which is icing on the cake.


----------



## 2359glenn

I have tried using the #76 tube in amps years ago and all of them were noisy couldn't use them.
 Maybe I had a bunch of crappy tubes will  have to try again.


----------



## 2359glenn

Plan on building a amp for myself hadn't built one for me in 10 years.
 Going to squeeze it in after I ship Khragon's amp.
 It will be a EL3N driving a EL3N these tubes supposed to sound like a #45 so it will be like a 45 driving a 45.
 They are not direct heated so easy to work with. With Lundahl transformers power and output.
 Maybe send it to Tyrell to audition he can appreciate the sound of a 45.
  
 Glenn


----------



## gibosi

I purchased a quad of RCA 76, all with the same date code, K4E. While two were noisy, these two are dead quiet. So if anyone is interested, it might be a good idea to get more than two...
  
 And this is the adapter:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-RCA-76-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/201398487020


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> As I am quite liking the GEC U18/20 / Sylvania 6BX7GT combo, have been digging deep into my stash to find drivers to retry. Based on a posting by Jamato8 in the 6SN7 thread sometime ago, I had tried a couple RCA 76 but didn't much care for them with 6AS7/6080/5998. However, in this configuration, they sound great.
> 
> Interestingly, these are fairly old, manufactured in 1943, and they are dead quiet with the original Glenn OTL transformer, which is icing on the cake.


 
 Thank you for the pic and the info, Ken.


2359glenn said:


> Plan on building a amp for myself hadn't built one for me in 10 years.
> Going to squeeze it in after I ship Khragon's amp.
> It will be a EL3N driving a EL3N these tubes supposed to sound like a #45 so it will be like a 45 driving a 45.
> They are not direct heated so easy to work with. With Lundahl transformers power and output.
> ...


 
 Nice to see you building an amp for yourself, Glenn.
  
 I really like the sound of the EL3N in my amp as driver tubes.
  
 In your application, I can only imagine


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > As I am quite liking the GEC U18/20 / Sylvania 6BX7GT combo, have been digging deep into my stash to find drivers to retry. Based on a posting by Jamato8 in the 6SN7 thread sometime ago, I had tried a couple RCA 76 but didn't much care for them with 6AS7/6080/5998. However, in this configuration, they sound great.
> ...


 

 Plan on having a switch on the output tubes hooked up triode or pentode .  Triode 1 watt and pentode 4.5 watts.
 It will sound better in triode but putting the switch in case I want more power for inefficient phones.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> Plan on having a switch on the output tubes hooked up triode or pentode .  Triode 1 watt and pentode 4.5 watts.
> It will sound better in triode but putting the switch in case I want more power for inefficient phones.




Which headphones are you planning to pair with this future amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Plan on having a switch on the output tubes hooked up triode or pentode .  Triode 1 watt and pentode 4.5 watts.
> ...


 

 Right now my main headphones are the HD-800 & HD-650 maybe get a LCD-2 in the future.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Plan on having a switch on the output tubes hooked up triode or pentode .  Triode 1 watt and pentode 4.5 watts.
> It will sound better in triode but putting the switch in case I want more power for inefficient phones.




That will be pretty cool Glenn. Make use of all of the tubes capability. I wonder what if it's possible to do that, switching between triode and pentode, with c3g driving 300b?


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> Right now my main headphones are the HD-800 & HD-650 maybe get a LCD-2 in the future.


 
 I am excited about this. I wonder how the sound will differ from my OTL amp when paired with the HD800. I wil be surely following this with great interest.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

2359glenn said:


> Plan on building a amp for myself hadn't built one for me in 10 years.
> Going to squeeze it in after I ship Khragon's amp.
> It will be a EL3N driving a EL3N these tubes supposed to sound like a #45 so it will be like a 45 driving a 45.
> They are not direct heated so easy to work with. With Lundahl transformers power and output.
> ...


 
  
 Is that going to be a third amp type to sell, down the road?  As usual, color me interested...


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> Plan on building a amp for myself hadn't built one for me in 10 years.
> Going to squeeze it in after I ship Khragon's amp.
> It will be a EL3N driving a EL3N these tubes supposed to sound like a #45 so it will be like a 45 driving a 45.
> They are not direct heated so easy to work with. With Lundahl transformers power and output.
> ...


 
  
 Hi Glenn.
  
 It is encouraging indeed to see you interested in the EL3N - I and others have certainly been seduced by this tube for quite a while now in our Elises. I sincerely hope it performs equally well (if not even better!) for you in your own special treat...which I'm sure you justly deserve, lol!
  
 If impressed, I hope you may give us a nod some time....if not, I will deny any knowledge of said tube LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








. (Just hope you manage to find the time to fulfil your own project - I foresee a good few sessions of the dreaded midnight oil...).
  
 CJ


----------



## gibosi

Glenn...  I seem to remember that the original OTL transformer can provide up to 11 amps for one 6SN7 socket and the two 6AS7 sockets combined? If I wanted to run a pair of EL3N (0.9 amps each or 1.8 amps for the pair) and six 6BL7 (1.5 amps each or 9.0 amps for six) totaling 10.8 amps, would this be safe?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Glenn...  I seem to remember that the original OTL transformer can provide up to 11 amps for one 6SN7 socket and the two 6AS7 sockets combined? If I wanted to run a pair of EL3N (0.9 amps each or 1.8 amps for the pair) and six 6BL7 (1.5 amps each or 9.0 amps for six) totaling 10.8 amps, would this be safe?


 

 Yes this would be fine.
 The EL3N is a dam good sounding tube I was shocked by the sound. The EL3 is good too older version.
 Do you have the two EL3N to 6SN7 adapter?


----------



## gibosi

I haven't purchased an adapter or any tubes yet. Thought it best to make sure it was safe first. And it's good to know that the older EL3 can be used as well. Thanks!


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Right now my main headphones are the HD-800 & HD-650 maybe get a LCD-2 in the future.


 
  
 You might want to put the Ether on your list Glenn.  Synergy with the 45 is super good and they are very easy to drive, 1 watt is more than enough.  They are better sounding than the LCD-2 in nearly every way.


----------



## Rossliew

xcalibur255 said:


> You might want to put the Ether on your list Glenn.  Synergy with the 45 is super good and they are very easy to drive, 1 watt is more than enough.  They are better sounding than the LCD-2 in nearly every way.




Did you find the Ether to be lean sounding with pronounced treble and not much bass? It sounded like that when I listened with it via the Yggy/Rag stack. Perhaps not good synergy


----------



## 2359glenn

buttuglyjeff said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Plan on building a amp for myself hadn't built one for me in 10 years.
> ...


 

 Expensive though the 3 Lundahl transformers will cost me $1K alone


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn, would you, one day, consider building a solid state amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Glenn, would you, one day, consider building a solid state amp?


 
 Yes Maybe a hybrid with tube gain stage and Mosfets for outputs.
 Get the good sound of tubes and the power of transistors.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Plan on building a amp for myself hadn't built one for me in 10 years.
> Going to squeeze it in after I *ship Khragon's amp*.
> It will be a EL3N driving a EL3N these tubes supposed to sound like a #45 so it will be like a 45 driving a 45.
> They are not direct heated so easy to work with. With Lundahl transformers power and output.
> ...


 

 Missed this post... excitement building up !! Yes!
  
 Looking forward to see your EL3N amp Glenn.  What's the benefit of EL3N vs #45 if like you mentioned EL3N sounds like #45.  Cost is similar look like from my very brief searches.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Plan on building a amp for myself hadn't built one for me in 10 years.
> ...


 

 Easy to work with Direct heated tubes like the 45 , 2A3 , 300B are a pain in the ass to work with


khragon said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Plan on building a amp for myself hadn't built one for me in 10 years.
> ...


 

 Direct heated tubes like the 45 , 2A3 , 300B are a pain in the ass to work with. They need a isolated DC power supply
 for each tube.  If I can find a tube that is indirect heated that sounds as good would make things easy for me..
 Plus a fun project getting board of building the same amps over and over. And I would like a new amp for me.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Yes Maybe a hybrid with tube gain stage and Mosfets for outputs.
> Get the good sound of tubes and the power of transistors.




Now when would that day come? I would put my money down soon as u say "that day is here"


----------



## Khragon

rossliew said:


> Now when would that day come? I would put my money down soon as u say "that day is here"


 

 +1.. why wait let do it now


----------



## jhljhl

khragon said:


> +1.. why wait let do it now


 

 Vinni Rossi LIO has a DHT pre but not sure the headamp is powered with it.
 http://vinnierossi.com/dht_pre/


----------



## Khragon

jhljhl said:


> Vinni Rossi LIO has a DHT pre but not sure the headamp is powered with it.
> http://vinnierossi.com/dht_pre/


 

 Very interesting... I'll check it out at the upcoming Newport show.


----------



## jhljhl

khragon said:


> Very interesting... I'll check it out at the upcoming Newport show.


 

 Yes DHT battery powered let us know.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn...  I seem to remember that the original OTL transformer can provide up to 11 amps for one 6SN7 socket and the two 6AS7 sockets combined? If I wanted to run a pair of EL3N (0.9 amps each or 1.8 amps for the pair) and six 6BL7 (1.5 amps each or 9.0 amps for six) totaling 10.8 amps, would this be safe?
> ...


 
 I will have to check into the EL3....do they sound the same, Glenn ?
  


xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Right now my main headphones are the HD-800 & HD-650 maybe get a LCD-2 in the future.
> ...


 
 This is a can on my radar...I am thinking my OTL will even do a pretty good job with them....and being able to tune them some what with many different tubes really has my attention.


----------



## 3083joe

Double adapter for EL3N in wa22 sound great.


----------



## Khragon

xcalibur255 said:


> You might want to put the Ether on your list Glenn.  Synergy with the 45 is super good and they are very easy to drive, 1 watt is more than enough.  They are better sounding than the LCD-2 in nearly every way.




Hmm..not sure about that, I sold my Ether C because it's so plain and boring, no body. The lack of any bass at all is a real killer. Heard Ether at meets many times and it's equally unimpressive. I recommend HD800S, LCD2 is good too as it's different from HD800 amd have very impactful bass and luscious midrange, good to have variety. Ymmv ofcourse.


----------



## dminches

jhljhl said:


> Yes DHT battery powered let us know.




I heard it at Axpona and I was impressed. It was driving a pair of Harbeth 30.2s.


----------



## longbowbbs

dminches said:


> jhljhl said:
> 
> 
> > Yes DHT battery powered let us know.
> ...


 
 It was terrific at Axpona....And David, how did we miss each other?


----------



## dminches

longbowbbs said:


> It was terrific at Axpona....And David, how did we miss each other?


 
  
 No clue.  I spend a bunch of time on the first floor.


----------



## longbowbbs

I was covering the show for HiFi+ Magazine so I was all over. It was a great 3 days!


----------



## Xcalibur255

rossliew said:


> Did you find the Ether to be lean sounding with pronounced treble and not much bass? It sounded like that when I listened with it via the Yggy/Rag stack. Perhaps not good synergy


 
  
 No.  I wrote a pretty tl;dr opinion on this just a few days ago here, in response to whirlwind's question.  Maybe I explained myself poorly.
  
 So, super short version:  it's not thick and creamy like an LCD-2, but the Ether is not thin nor is it bright.  It feels balanced in the right way, and makes the LCD-2 feel inaccurate.  It's also a technically superior headphone all around in terms of resolution and imaging.
  
 If you're really concerned about bass, it's a little more polite on Ether, but it doesn't feel missing or lacking in presence.  It's also better detailed like the rest of the phone.  Listening to the first minute of the first track in Miles Davis Kind of Blue and listening to the bass guitar notes being plucked is positively illuminating on the Ether.  The LCD-2 might have a bit more bass, but it's not better.  The Ether is just more accurate to the recording all around IMO.


----------



## lukeap69

How is the LCD-2 paired with Glenn's OTL amp? Anybody use this pairing?


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> I will have to check into the EL3....do they sound the same, Glenn ?
> 
> This is a can on my radar...I am thinking my OTL will even do a pretty good job with them....and being able to tune them some what with many different tubes really has my attention.


 
  
 Yep, people either missed my long post or skipped it because it was super long.  I'm bad about that.  
  
 One of the things I touched on in that post was Ether sensitivity.  In short:  Ether + OTL is bad news in terms of noise/hum unless the OTL amp is unusually quiet.  The very low 22 ohm impedance is also not ideal for an OTL amp.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> ...
> So, super short version:  it's not thick and creamy like an LCD-2, but the Ether is not thin nor is it bright.  It feels balanced in the right way, and makes the LCD-2 feel inaccurate.  It's also a technically superior headphone all around in terms of resolution and imaging.
> ...


 
  
 I think it needs careful pairing. An amp or tube setup that is a little on the dark side is ideal. It works well with the V281, but not at all with the Taurus (at least, that is how it goes for me). Kinda like the HD800 - with the right amp it is excellent, but the wrong amp is not pleasant.
  
 EDIT - I am referring to the Ether C. Never heard the open Ether, but I would expect the same comments to apply.


----------



## Xcalibur255

khragon said:


> Hmm..not sure about that, I sold my Ether C because it's so plain and boring, no body. The lack of any bass at all is a real killer. Heard Ether at meets many times and it's equally unimpressive. I recommend HD800S, LCD2 is good too as it's different from HD800 amd have very impactful bass and luscious midrange, good to have variety. Ymmv ofcourse.


 
  
 Yeah, I think YMMV is the case here really.  I can tell you Ether is not boring or lacking bass/body on my amp.  To give some reference, I have been listening to a non-Fazor LCD-2.2 exclusively as my primary headphone for nearly 3 years now.  I'm both very familiar and very used to this sound.  Once I got my Ether burned in and not sounding funky (I think all planars sound horrible until they have at least 50 hours on them), it took me exactly one long evening listening session to get used to the new sound and like it.  I listened to my LCD-2 a couple of day later and found them very spotlighty (as in easily heard peaks and valleys in the frequency response), veiled and stuffy/closed-in sounding.  The whole listening session I was listening for all the new musical information the Ethers had revealed to me in the same tracks and it wasn't there.
  
 Perhaps Ether has exceptional synergy with the 45 amp Glennn built for me.  If so then I'm fortunate, and perhaps Dan should consider demoing his headphone with something other than a Ragnarok.


----------



## Xcalibur255

tonynewman said:


> I think it needs careful pairing. An amp or tube setup that is a little on the dark side is ideal. It works well with the V281, but not at all with the Taurus (at least, that is how it goes for me). Kinda like the HD800 - with the right amp it is excellent, but the wrong amp is not pleasant.
> 
> EDIT - I am referring to the Ether C. Never heard the open Ether, but I would expect the same comments to apply.


 
  
 See that's the funny thing.  The Glenn 45 is not a dark sounding amp.  Not in the least.  If you were to listen to it in a blind listening session I would bet money that most people would peg it as a very refined sounding solid state amp unless the right track came along to really illuminate that special midrange magic that only tubes seem to have.  It's a very lively and dynamic amp with no politeness in the treble or bass.  The amp is definitely not taming anything about Ether's character in my setup, and I'm running silver cables throughout the whole system too so no help with warmth there either.
  
 edit: general consensus is that the Ether C is somewhat more lit up in the treble area than the open back Ether, so maybe we are not quite comparing apples to apples in that respect.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> ...If you were to listen to it in a blind listening session I would bet money that most people would peg it as a very refined sounding solid state amp unless the right track came along to really illuminate that special midrange magic that only tubes seem to have...


 
  
 Quite a feat for a tube amp to go toe to toe with a high end SS unit, but Glenn amps seem to do it. My 300B certainly gives very little away to the V281 for detail / dynamics / clarity / punch - which is saying quite a bit as the V281 is a superb SS amp.
  
 Have some nice new 300Bs to show off. These are the TJ 300B CNE version. An improved version of the 300B SE (which I think is the same thing as the SERP). If they truly are better than the SERPs they will be an excellent tube. They were at my doorstep this afternoon - literally put them in my amp a few minutes ago - so the start of the burn in. Way too early to pass any judgement, but they are pleasant right out of the box.
  
 Some amp porn with the new glass. Apologies for the blurriness.
  

  

  
 Same size as the SERP - hefty - a big brute of a 300B. I am running them in at a very gentle 60mA plate current.


----------



## Khragon

Nice, another totl new production tube to try out. I saw this a while ago, but like many Chinese based audio products, got to proceed with caution. I am very interested in your impression, especially comparing to the SERPs. Another 300b to watch out for is the 300b Hifiman used to demo their new totl stats, not sure if we can buy them directly though.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Nice, another totl new production tube to try out. I saw this a while ago, but like many Chinese based audio products, got to proceed with caution. I am very interested in your impression, especially comparing to the SERPs. Another 300b to watch out for is the 300b Hifiman used to demo their new totl stats, not sure if we can buy them directly though.


 
  
 I wouldn't have gone near the CNE if I had a bad experience with the SERPs, but they were tank-like. Even some rather boneheaded treatment from me didn't seem to bother them at all. They seemed "dolt proof" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I will report back after putting 200 hours on these puppies. Early results are promising, but it would be crazy of me to say too much about 300Bs with 30 minutes on them on the forum.
  
 PM me if you are seriously considering these tubes and want my early impressions, but please remember to take them with a huge bucket of salt.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> ...  I can tell you Ether is not boring or lacking bass/body on my amp.  To give some reference, I have been listening to a non-Fazor LCD-2.2 exclusively as my primary headphone for nearly 3 years now.  I'm both very familiar and very used to this sound.  Once I got my Ether burned in and not sounding funky (I think all planars sound horrible until they have at least 50 hours on them), it took me exactly one long evening listening session to get used to the new sound and like it.  I listened to my LCD-2 a couple of day later and found them very spotlighty (as in easily heard peaks and valleys in the frequency response), veiled and stuffy/closed-in sounding.  The whole listening session I was listening for all the new musical information the Ethers had revealed to me in the same tracks and it wasn't there.
> 
> Perhaps Ether has exceptional synergy with the 45 amp Glennn built for me.  If so then I'm fortunate, and perhaps Dan should consider demoing his headphone with something other than a Ragnarok.


 
  
 This inspired me to give my Ether Cs a run in the 300B amp with the new CNE tubes. Result is very good - much better than I expected. Sound is very clean, balanced, detailed. Bass is powerful and tight. Dan's planar seems to like Glenn amps. I still prefer the modded HE6, but it's close. Much closer than I expected.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

xcalibur255 said:


> Yep, people either missed my long post or skipped it because it was super long.  I'm bad about that.
> 
> One of the things I touched on in that post was Ether sensitivity.  In short:  Ether + OTL is bad news in terms of noise/hum unless the OTL amp is unusually quiet.  The very low 22 ohm impedance is also not ideal for an OTL amp.


 
  
 So a Lundahl transformer or bust?  Or is it more a tube compliment thing?  Or both?


----------



## whirlwind

buttuglyjeff said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > Yep, people either missed my long post or skipped it because it was super long.  I'm bad about that.
> ...


 
 I think I am going to give the ether a chance with my OTL amp....I have been listening to my Grado RS1 with no humming or noise issues what so ever, they are 32 ohm impedance dynamic driver cans.
  
 I know there are much better amps for the low impedance Ether, but I still think they may sound good with my amp.
  
 If I end up liking the headphone and feel my amp is not up to the task....then I may have to ask for your help, Glenn


----------



## gibosi

buttuglyjeff said:


> So a Lundahl transformer or bust?  Or is it more a tube compliment thing?  Or both?


 
  
 The Lundahl transformer will go a long way to make the amp very quiet. And rolling the proper output tubes, perhaps a pair of 6336, will help the amp to handle 22 ohms.


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> The Lundahl transformer will go a long way to make the amp very quiet. And rolling the proper output tubes, perhaps a pair of 6336, will help the amp to handle 22 ohms.




which 6336 can you recommend (reasonably priced)?


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> buttuglyjeff said:
> 
> 
> > So a Lundahl transformer or bust?  Or is it more a tube compliment thing?  Or both?
> ...


 
  
 This is exactly what I was thinking of doing....then being able to tune the sound with all of my various driver tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I guess my biggest concern is will my amp have a lot of authority with these cans...I understand that there will be better matches...but I remember punit telling me he powered planars very well with his OTL.
  
 With the HD800 & the hD650,  you always feel Glenns amp is not even sweating and always in control, and the sound from the HD800 lets you know that.
  
 If there is a way to power them with authority and not have to spend hundreds and hundreds on a set of tubes....them I am all in for giving them a go.


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> which 6336 can you recommend (reasonably priced)?


 
  
 To the best of my knowledge, all the American-made 6336 were made by the same company: Chatham, which was then purchased by Tung Sol, which was then purchased by Cetron. So Raytheon, RCA, GE and others are just rebrands. There was also a European-made 6336 but these do not show up often on eBay.
  
 From the experience of others in this forum, you should avoid the original American-made 6336, and go for the later 6336A or 6336B. As I have only the American-made 6336B, I do not know if the 6336A sounds the same or different. And I do not know how the European-made 6336 sounds either.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> This is exactly what I was thinking of doing....then being able to tune the sound with all of my various driver tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 And if you do get the Ethers, then you could also try rolling a quad of your favorite 6AS7/6080, or perhaps even better, a quad of 5998.


----------



## whirlwind

I only have the Tung Sol 6336B also......I have heard from others that the  A/B versions sound the same, but I have yet to try both
  
 I think you are correct to avoid the regular 6336, Ken.
  
 If I am not mistaken, the 6336 does not have the graphite plates ?
  
 If that is correct, it makes it pretty easy to tell the difference.
  
 I always let mine warm up for about 10 minutes, before plugging my headphones in.....I always error of the side of caution with these
  
 It seems to take them awhile to warm up and to sound their best.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> If I am not mistaken, the 6336 does not have the graphite plates ?
> 
> If that is correct, it makes it pretty easy to tell the difference.


 
  
 Yes, the original 6336 does not have graphite plates. They are metal and look similar to those of 6AS7.
  
 Both the 6336A and 6336B have graphite plates, but the bracing round the top mica spacer is different. And typically, the 6336A has a black plastic base (below the metal wrapper) and the 6336B has a white base.


----------



## Xcalibur255

buttuglyjeff said:


> So a Lundahl transformer or bust?  Or is it more a tube compliment thing?  Or both?


 
  
 I would say both, to an extent.  The 6336 might work without a Lundahl, but I'm confident the 5998 will not be acceptable in terms of hum.  I think either a 5998 or 6336 is necessary to keep it from sounding soft, but that's nothing but an assumption at this point.  Ether is really easy to drive, it might do just fine with 6AS7/6080 tubes.
  
 I can test this actually, and probably should.  Right now my OTL is tubed for high impedance headphones but  the next time I roll something different I'll try the Ether on it both before and after the switch.  I've been enjoying Ether with my 45 too much to pull the plug out of that particular jack.


----------



## whirlwind

xcalibur255 said:


> buttuglyjeff said:
> 
> 
> > So a Lundahl transformer or bust?  Or is it more a tube compliment thing?  Or both?
> ...


 
 I will be looking forward to your impressions....I only have two sets of 5998 tubes, but I do not get hum from either set and that is using the switch on the back of the amp to on the 5998 setting.
  
 I love the 5998 tubes so far....actually listening to them now....with the HD800


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> I wouldn't have gone near the CNE if I had a bad experience with the SERPs, but they were tank-like. Even some rather boneheaded treatment from me didn't seem to bother them at all. They seemed "dolt proof"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I can wait, not seriously looking into getting them.  Got to get my hand on those TAKs first.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> I can wait, not seriously looking into getting them.  Got to get my hand on those TAKs first.


 
  
 Yep - Taks reign supreme for me. Best 300B I have heard. Mine are on order with Price Japan, but it will be a few weeks before they have stock to ship.
  
 Put 4 hours on the CNE last night. Very pleasant tube.


----------



## whirlwind

It is great to see you have that amp up and running again Tony...you have to be feeling pretty good to have those amps that you have.


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> It is great to see you have that amp up and running again Tony...you have to be feeling pretty good to have those amps that you have.


 
  
 It's working better than ever. I am 99% sure it was damaged in transit and that let to a series of events that ended with the amp imploding. All fixed now and sounding great.
  
 I sold most of my amps - now have the Glenn 300B and V281 as my "core" amps fed from a Hegel HD30. Sold the 430HA / Taurus / Vega / WA5. Had to - no room in the rack.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I only have the Tung Sol 6336B also......I have heard from others that the  A/B versions sound the same, but I have yet to try both
> 
> I think you are correct to avoid the regular 6336, Ken.
> 
> ...


 

 That is right I got a pair of metal plate and one of them blew up when I turned the amp on.
 At least I didn't have the phones plugged in


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Quite a feat for a tube amp to go toe to toe with a high end SS unit, but Glenn amps seem to do it. My 300B certainly gives very little away to the V281 for detail / dynamics / clarity / punch - which is saying quite a bit as the V281 is a superb SS amp.
> 
> Have some nice new 300Bs to show off. These are the TJ 300B CNE version. An improved version of the 300B SE (which I think is the same thing as the SERP). If they truly are better than the SERPs they will be an excellent tube. They were at my doorstep this afternoon - literally put them in my amp a few minutes ago - so the start of the burn in. Way too early to pass any judgement, but they are pleasant right out of the box.
> 
> ...



Beautiful. 
Will have one of these this yr.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm looking for a good pair of 6SN7(GT/A/B) tubes for a Woo 22 amp, any suggestions?
  
 Can easily get:
  
 - Haltron 6SN7GT (rebrands)
 - ADZAM 6SN7GT
 - Philips 6SN7GTB 
  
 Thanks guys!


----------



## gibosi

ultrainferno said:


> I'm looking for a good pair of 6SN7(GT/A/B) tubes for a Woo 22 amp, any suggestions?
> 
> Can easily get:
> 
> ...


 
  
 As you note, Haltron are rebrands. No way to know who actually manufactured the tubes... Which ever manufacturer provided the best price at the time.... Have to see them...
  
 If the ADZAM really are 6SN7GT, and not GTA or GTB, then these were likely manufactured by Philips. And if so, the production code can be found on the bottom next to the pins. Factory code "4" = Eindhoven and code "L" = MBLE/Bruxelles. I haven't heard either of these, but from what I have read, most prefer Eindhoven production.
  
 Philips 6SN7GTB are most likely Sylvania 6SN7GTB rebrands.


----------



## whirlwind

I tried this combo....four 6BL7 & two 6AS7....can't say that it did much for the sound, the 6BL7 really need nothing getting in the way of it  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 At least I can burn in the 6AS7, lol..........not to say that this sounds bad, it sounds wonderful and has a dead black back round, which is something with this many tubes and adapters going on.


----------



## gibosi

Glenn, correct me if I am wrong...  
  
 For those of us with the original OTL transformer, the tube complement shown above in Whirlwind's post, totaling 11.6 amps of heater current, may well be more than our amps were designed to handle. I believe our amps are limited to 11.0 amps.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Glenn, correct me if I am wrong...
> 
> For those of us with the original OTL transformer, the tube complement shown above in Whirlwind's post, totaling 11.6 amps of heater current, may well be more than our amps were designed to handle. I believe our amps are limited to 11.0 amps.


 
 I had my power tubes adding up to 11 amp....I asked Glenn if I could try this combo .....he said I was good.....I believe mine to be 13 amp, but maybe I misunderstood.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I had my power tubes adding up to 11 amp....I asked Glenn if I could try this combo .....he said I was good.....I believe mine to be 13 amp, but maybe I misunderstood.


 
  
 As I understand this, it is necessary to include the driver as well, thus 11.6 amps. Plus, I believe your transformer can provide more current than the older one.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I had my power tubes adding up to 11 amp....I asked Glenn if I could try this combo .....he said I was good.....I believe mine to be 13 amp, but maybe I misunderstood.
> ...


 
 Dang, I did not even factor in my driver...I have just been rolling SN7 as drivers.  0.3 amp for them ?


----------



## gibosi

0.6 amps for 6SN7, but as I believe you usually roll 12SN7, then right, 0.3.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> 0.6 amps for 6SN7, but as I believe you usually roll 12SN7, then right, 0.3.


 

 The amp has a voltage doubler/quadrupler if the tube is 12.6 at .3A it will take 6.3 at .6 to produce
 it. the 25.2V at .15 A tubes will still take 6.3 at .6 .
 So all 6SN7s will take 6.3 at .6 amps no matter what there voltage is. not counting losses in the
 circuitry.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > 0.6 amps for 6SN7, but as I believe you usually roll 12SN7, then right, 0.3.
> ...


 
 Thanks for this info, Glenn.


----------



## TonyNewman

Some information that might be helpful to other owners of the Glenn 300B amp. As mentioned in this thread previously, I have had some bad luck with damage in transit with my amp and subsequent damage to the amp from a tube failure. The amp is fixed now and operating wonderfully well.
  
 Part of the repair process was to recommend lowering the fuse ratings. I am currently running 250mA (slow blow) fuses on each channel. Also running a 1.6A mains fuse (keep in mind my power supply is 230V, not the oddball 110/120V used by some non-conformist, eccentric countries that also persist in driving on the wrong side of the road 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ).
  
 As my luck would have it, I had a recent tube failure of the new CNE 300Bs (my luck with all things tube related is atrocious) - however the relevant fuse blew quickly and protected the amp from any damage. Replacing the fuses and swapping the tubes over confirmed that the bad tube was attempting to draw far in excess of 100mA - I powered down immediately and removed the tubes. Currently awaiting a replacement 300B from the supplier.
  
 Once I can get my hands on some, I will try lowering my fuse settings to 200mA / 1.2A and see how that goes. The hassle and expense of fuse replacement is absolutely NOTHING compared to the hassle and expense of a damaged amp.
  
 So if you are an owner of a Glenn 300B amp, I recommend checking your fuse ratings, and perhaps trying some with lower ratings - the worst that can happen is that you blow some fuses if you go too low - a very small expense and inconvenience - and it just might save your amp if things go bad. Having "cooked" my amp, I can state that it is not a fun experience (wrecked choke / output transformer / bias meter).
  
 For those that don't know, the fuse points are shown below:
  

  
 Fuses for the left and right channel are in the highlighted box on the left, the power supply fuse on the right.
  
 The channel fuses unscrew easily. The mains fuse sits in a little holder that can be popped out of the plug socket easily with a screwdriver. Replacing all 3 fuses takes a few minutes.


----------



## Khragon

Good info Tony, thanks for sharing.  What was the original fuse rating?  It's times like this that having even a basic level tube tester will do wonders.  I got myself a TV7B which works really well, although it can't test PY500A.  I plan to ask if Glenn can make me an adapter.
  
 I highly recommend you pick up one of Hickok tester, one that can test all 3 PY500A, C3g, and 300B.  It will prevent you from using your amp as a troubleshooting tool


----------



## 2359glenn

(keep in mind my power supply is 230V, not the oddball 110/120V used by some non-conformist, eccentric countries that also persist in driving on the wrong side of the road 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).
  
 Wrong side of the road.  You guys have to finally break away from GB and do things right.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Good info Tony, thanks for sharing.  What was the original fuse rating?  ...


 
  
 400mA on each channel and around 3A on the mains. Currently running 250mA / 1.6A with no bogus fuse failures. Will try 200mA / 1.2A later and see how that goes. For those folks with a freaky 110/120V supply something around 2A on the mains supply might be more appropriate - I would get guidance from Glenn on that.
  
 250mA certainly did the trick on my most recent tube failure - blew fast enough to prevent any damage to the amp - so I was kinda pleased (I know that sounds weird, having an expensive 300B fail isn't exactly thrilling, but the pain of a blown fuse and 300B tube dying is nothing compared to having an amp busted).


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> ...
> Wrong side of the road.  You guys have to finally break away from GB and do things right.


 
  





 I must admit it did grate a little to swear allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elisabeth II, her heirs and successors... etc on enlistment in the Australian army in 1987. The Westminster system of parliamentary democracy, operating under a constitutional monarchy, does seems to work about as well as any other system (and perhaps better than most). But this is getting way OT.
  
 Anyway, there is a silver lining to all this fun with tubes failing and fuses blowing. With the CNEs awaiting a replacement tube and my Taks weeks away from shipment, I have been putting a lot more hours on my EATs. This is a mighty fine 300B indeed. Detailed, extended, smooth, balanced, neutral. It is a technical marvel, but a little lacking in the warm mid-range magic of a Takatsuki / SERP/ CNE type of tube. Still very pleasant and engaging on vocals, but it really excels at classical / instrumental / jazz. If you can find a set for a good price I highly recommend them.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > Good info Tony, thanks for sharing.  What was the original fuse rating?  ...
> ...


 

 In my amps I use 250ma but here in North Carolina ware the power sucks. Lights will blink power off and right back on causing the 250ma fuses to blow.
 So I increased the fuse size so you wouldn't have false blowing. Should have known this happens no ware else when I lived in New York and Pennsylvania
 this never happened. The 3amp is for 120 volts I forgot to change it. Should be about twice what is used on 230.


----------



## lukeap69

Is this a problem for OTL also? We are also 230V here.


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> Is this a problem for OTL also? We are also 230V here.


 
 Your OTL has a 2 amp fuse in it the OTL draws more current then the 300B amp


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> Is this a problem for OTL also? We are also 230V here.


 
  
 I would defer to Glenn for his recommendation on the best fuse ratings for that amp.
  
 The 110V/120V vs 230V/240V situation only applies to the mains fuse (in case you weren't aware - apologies if you are).
  
 If you own a 300B amp, I suggest checking your fuses to ensure you the right level of protection. That would be 250mA or 200mA for each channel, and a mains fuse that depends on your supply voltage. Again, I would defer to Glenn for this. I am currently running 1.6A for a 230V supply. I will be trying 1.2A in the future. If I was in a 110V/120V supply zone I would be looking at something around 2.0A to 2.5A (but again, I would defer to Glenn for guidance on this).
  
 I am using "T" type of fuses - these are the "slow blow" type. This is important as you don't want every little fart in the power supply to potentially blow a fuse. Ceramic fuses are nice, but the glass ones work just fine for me.


----------



## Khragon

I want unicorn hair audiophile fuses that cost as much as the taks 300B tubes, only the best will do for my Glenn 300B.


----------



## 3083joe

khragon said:


> I want unicorn hair audiophile fuses that cost as much as the taks 300B tubes, only the best will do for my Glenn 300B.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> I want unicorn hair audiophile fuses that cost as much as the taks 300B tubes, only the best will do for my Glenn 300B.


 
  
 I deliberately didn't mention the fancy fuse options. There are folks out there who will sell you "audiophile grade" fuses for 50USD (or more) per piece. I like getting mine in packs of 10 for a few bucks.
  
 The ceramic option is slightly more expensive and is a nice option - not for any (imaginary?) audio benefit - but because they tend to make less mess when they blow. Glass fuses can shatter and make a mess - ceramics not so much. If there is a difference in SQ I can't hear it.
  
 I really, really don't want any part of the audiophool flame wars. If folks want to spend their cash on that sort of thing that is their business. Might be fubar to me, but the Glenn thread is not the place for it IMHO.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> I want unicorn hair audiophile fuses that cost as much as the taks 300B tubes, only the best will do for my Glenn 300B.


 

 They will go along with the unicorn hair insulated wire I am using.
 Also you should get a $2000 power cord filled with fairy dust.


----------



## jhljhl

2359glenn said:


> They will go along with the unicorn hair insulated wire I am using.
> Also you should get a $2000 power cord filled with fairy dust.


 
 maple blocks are for butchers!


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> They will go along with the unicorn hair insulated wire I am using.
> Also you should get a $2000 power cord filled with fairy dust.


 
  
 Dammit - I was trying to restrain myself!! Now I am "forced" to play.
  
 The Fairy Dust only works if cryo-treated. And remember to burn in your cables, and have them pointing the right way, because the electrons know the difference.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > They will go along with the unicorn hair insulated wire I am using.
> ...


 

 Of course electrons know the difference do you think they are stupid. How stupid can they be.
 I mean everything is made out of them. Including the dumb ass people that buy these things.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Of course electrons know the difference do you think they are stupid. How stupid can they be.
> I mean everything is made out of them. Including the dumb ass people that buy these things.


 
 haha... good one. lol.


----------



## Xcalibur255

tonynewman said:


> Dammit - I was trying to restrain myself!! Now I am "forced" to play.
> 
> The Fairy Dust only works if cryo-treated. And remember to burn in your cables, and have them pointing the right way, because the electrons know the difference.


 
  
 Funny you should mention cable burn in.  I absolutely hated the idea that this could be a real thing, but after I bought my silver cables I just couldn't deny this one anymore.  Everything else in the system was long established, but for the first 100 hours these new cables were in the system it went through wild very easy to hear swings in sound quality.  Back and forth between dark and bright, grainy and veiled.  A lot like watching an impluse response curve steady out to it's eventual flatline, over time the swings became less wild and a final sound locked in.
  
 I wish so badly that this crap wasn't true, but my ears tell me it most definitely is.
  
 So far I've resisted anything else.  No fancy power cords, no line conditioners or magic vibration reducing gizmos.  I really like how my system sounds now, so I've reached the point where I suppose it doesn't matter whether or not I'm "leaving performance on the table" by not exploring these things.  The OCD can only be indulged to a certain point though, and I think I'm happy with the balance I've struck.


----------



## Khragon

Are you referring to silver headphones cable or interconnects?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Interconnects in this case.


----------



## lukeap69

Glenn OTL Darna (taken from S6 handheld because I am lazy to setup my DSLR )


----------



## TonyNewman

Love the glow.


----------



## lukeap69

Thanks Tony.
  
 Love the sound...


----------



## whirlwind

tonynewman said:


> Love the glow.


 
 +1
  
 Bet it sounds wonderful, too.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> +1
> 
> Bet it sounds wonderful, too.


 
 It does sound wonderful Joe.
  
 I have figured out how to lower the 'preamp' gain with Foobar so I can have more volume range using 6nos 6BL7's. 3 to 4 'clicks' is not my sweet spot. 
  
 There is one problem though. My wife asked if she can listen with some of her favourite songs with HD800SD and OTL Darna and she liked what she heard. She is not a regular music listener but ehen she put the headphones on her head, she started describing the differences she was hearing like the natural tone of the guitar, nice impact of the drums and the long decays of the guitars and cymbals. I was surprised she noticed all of these when I thought she didn't even know about those! She also commented that each instrument is heard clear and the sound is not compressed.
  
 So she took some of my listening time! And she asked me if she can listen with my rig tomorrow whilst I am at work. 
 Oh dear. She likes the Ragnarok but she never had shown any interest as with the Darna.
  
 Hope she will forget about this tomorrow so I can have the usual listening time I have after work...
  
 So much for my rant...


----------



## leftside

Sounds like you need a second pair of headphones. Hopefully you have the same taste in music


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > +1
> ...


 
 Sounds like Darna is making friends quickly


----------



## lukeap69

leftside said:


> Sounds like you need a second pair of headphones. Hopefully you have the same taste in music




Yeah, but I hope not.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Sounds like Darna is making friends quickly




She will make more friends as some friends and local headfiers would like to hear her as well.


----------



## Khragon

Very nice.. good tube glow there in the photo. So the otl got a name? What about the 300b?


----------



## lukeap69

khragon said:


> Very nice.. good tube glow there in the photo. So the otl got a name? What about the 300b?




Thanks Khragon. 

Darna is particular to my OTL amp and not Glenn's OTL in general. I know several pages back, many happy owners of Glenn's amp have been given their own names. You can now start thinking if you want to give your 300B its personal name.


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> ...You can now start thinking if you want to give your 300B its personal name.


 
  
 This is now officially getting kinda weird


----------



## lukeap69

tonynewman said:


> This is now officially getting kinda weird :blink:




If Vettel can name his car, why can't we do the same for our custom amps?


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > Very nice.. good tube glow there in the photo. So the otl got a name? What about the 300b?
> ...


 
 Yes, I have read this whole thread and many people have named their amps....kinda cool....and if you go through the whole thread.....you will get very hungry   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am thinking it is about time for someone to post a tasty looking dish anytime, now.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I name all kinds of my things.  Cars, amps......  It's a nerd thing, nothing wrong with it.  
  
 Sometimes it's a little bittersweet, a bit too much "forever alone" vibe there, but such is nerd life.


----------



## Xcalibur255

So, on the subject of Ether and OTL, I did a quick listen last night per whirlwind's request.  The tubes in the amp were 6520s and a Raytheon JAN-CRP-6SN7GT ladder plate, and I think these tubes are a poor match for the Ether tonally.  They were just what happened to be in the amp, I didn't choose them specifically for this listening session, but it definitely wasn't ideal and I probably should have rolled a Sylvania driver in.  The amp is running off my McIntosh pre-amp, which is an ESS Sabre DAC and is not as organic or emotionally expressive as Yggdrasil is.  So take my comments with these conditions in mind.
  
 I was mainly interested to know how bad the noise would be and whether or not they would drive well.  Both results were positive, mainly the former.  There is actually no hum with the amp in its standard gain configuration, and I was pretty surprised at this given how sensitive Ether is.  I was not going to test 5998s with the headphone because I figured it would be a waste of time, but given that there is no hum at all with the amp configured for standard gain I think it's worth testing the 5998 config now.  They also seemed to drive well enough.  It didn't sound flat or thin.  The bass was a little polite, not a lot of drive or slam but I'm used to my 45 and it has better bass slam than the OTL does with every headphone I own.  The tone was too midrange centric, but it didn't sound tinny or nasal.  The Raytheon 6SN7 is at least partly to blame for this, I find the tone of this tube to be very dry.  A different driver would change things for the better for sure.  It was a nicely detailed sound with great vocal texture and soundstage air, but coming off the nice "wet" sound of the 45 it did feel a bit too sterile for my tastes.
  
 I'm going to roll 5998s and the Marconi Osram B65 driver into the amp and try again.  I expect some transformer hum but hopefully it will be manageable because I think in terms of tone and dynamics this tube combo would serve Ether much better.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> I name all kinds of my things.  Cars, amps......  It's a nerd thing, nothing wrong with it.


 
 ... in a "*hitchhiker body parts in my freezer*" kind of way...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Onto amps and things. Since the repair my Glenn 300B has been performing spectacularly well - even with less than ideal 300Bs installed.
  
 Technically, it is only a hair behind the V281 (detail, dynamics, punch ... etc), but also gets that lovely tube effect happening. It is an excellent audio experience - totally thrilled to have it. Pairs very well with the HD800S and even better with the modded HE6.
  
 Full of anticipation of getting this amp firing with the TA300Bs, once they arrive and are burned in, that promises to be audio bliss of a spectacular sort. Not sure it gets much better than that. Maybe a BHSE + SR-009?


----------



## jhljhl

tonynewman said:


> ... in a "*hitchhiker body parts in my freezer*" kind of way...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Don't you experience transistor hash? I find solid state more fatiguing than tubes.


----------



## TonyNewman

jhljhl said:


> Don't you experience transistor hash? I find solid state more fatiguing than tubes.


 
  
 Not so much with the V281 (or the 430HA before it). With the Taurus - absolutely - that amp was technically wonderful, but did get tiring after an hour or so.


----------



## gibosi

After reading Xcalibur's post above regarding the B65, I decided to roll in a 12-volt GEC/MOV B65 (that is, a B36) with a quad of Sylvania 6BX7 and a fat Cossor 53KU. Given that the 12-volt B36 often go for less than $100, I encourage those of you who can roll 12-volt drivers to be on the look-out for one of these. In my opinion, this is one tube that really does live up to the hype.


----------



## leftside

B65 (I have the Osram) and a fat Cossor 53KU are some of my favorite tubes. Still waiting for a quad matched 6BL7 to arrive.


----------



## whirlwind

xcalibur255 said:


> So, on the subject of Ether and OTL, I did a quick listen last night per whirlwind's request.  The tubes in the amp were 6520s and a Raytheon JAN-CRP-6SN7GT ladder plate, and I think these tubes are a poor match for the Ether tonally.  They were just what happened to be in the amp, I didn't choose them specifically for this listening session, but it definitely wasn't ideal and I probably should have rolled a Sylvania driver in.  The amp is running off my McIntosh pre-amp, which is an ESS Sabre DAC and is not as organic or emotionally expressive as Yggdrasil is.  So take my comments with these conditions in mind.
> 
> I was mainly interested to know how bad the noise would be and whether or not they would drive well.  Both results were positive, mainly the former.  There is actually no hum with the amp in its standard gain configuration, and I was pretty surprised at this given how sensitive Ether is.  I was not going to test 5998s with the headphone because I figured it would be a waste of time, but given that there is no hum at all with the amp configured for standard gain I think it's worth testing the 5998 config now.  They also seemed to drive well enough.  It didn't sound flat or thin.  The bass was a little polite, not a lot of drive or slam but I'm used to my 45 and it has better bass slam than the OTL does with every headphone I own.  The tone was too midrange centric, but it didn't sound tinny or nasal.  The Raytheon 6SN7 is at least partly to blame for this, I find the tone of this tube to be very dry.  A different driver would change things for the better for sure.  It was a nicely detailed sound with great vocal texture and soundstage air, but coming off the nice "wet" sound of the 45 it did feel a bit too sterile for my tastes.
> 
> I'm going to roll 5998s and the Marconi Osram B65 driver into the amp and try again.  I expect some transformer hum but hopefully it will be manageable because I think in terms of tone and dynamics this tube combo would serve Ether much better.


 
 Thank you for your impressions, they are much appreciated and look forward to your findings with 5998


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> B65 (I have the Osram) and a fat Cossor 53KU are some of my favorite tubes. Still waiting for a quad matched 6BL7 to arrive.


 
  
 Just to clarify, it doesn't matter whether the labels read Marconi, Osram or GEC, they are all the same tube.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Just to clarify, it doesn't matter whether the labels read Marconi, Osram or GEC, they are all the same tube.


 
 Cool


----------



## gibosi

A very nice pair!
  
 "HM" tells us that these were manufactured in December, 1952.
  
 And a 12-volt B36. "HD" = April, 1952


----------



## leftside

Thanks for the info! I was told they were manufactured in 1952, but I didn't know the "why". Crazy that in this day and age that we are using electronics from over 60 years ago!


----------



## gibosi

This two-letter date code (actually the British Common Valve date-code system) was commonly used by GEC/MOV up until about 1965. For the first letter, A = 1945, and so on. For the second letter, A = January, and so on. Letters I and O were not used. Thus AA = January 1945, NF = June 1957.


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> Thank you for your impressions, they are much appreciated and look forward to your findings with 5998


 
  
 I listened to the Ethers with the OTL using the 5998/B65 combo last night.  The result was....... not at all what I was expecting. 
  
 I guess for starters I was expecting a lot of hum and noise.  The Ether is quite sensitive and I have had noise issues using the 5998s with more forgiving headphones than this.  So imagine my surprise to find an almost completely silent background upon plugging the headphone jack in.  There is an intermittent electrical hum, extremely faint, that comes and goes and is not an issue at all.  I'm both surprised and confused at this, it's actually quieter than it is with the LCD-2 which makes no sense.
  
 Second, I found the tone quite nice.  Ether is pretty midrange centric by it's nature as many people have said.  It still feels dominant here but is overall nicely balanced, very smooth and neutral with a vocals emphasis.
  
 Unfortunately that's where the positives end.  In every situation where I have compared the 5998 tube to a 6080/6AS7 some things have held true:  that they are a "faster" and more aggressive sounding tube with stronger attack, stronger bass, and an overall bolder sound.  With the Ether, I got the opposite.  It sounds almost limp, very smooth but just too laid back.  What it reminds me of is how the 600 ohm Beyer DT880 sounds on my 45 amp, like there is a bottleneck.  Kind of like having a wood block under the gas pedal of your car, it feels choked, held back.  It's absolutely non-fatiguing at any volume with any material but ultimately the sound isn't engaging.
  
 After the listening session I swapped the LCD-2s in to confirm my impressions.  The sound was immediately much more lively with a stronger dynamics and a much better bass foundation.  Doing the A/B reveals once again how great the Ether is at imaging and how bad the LCD-2 is at this, the stage is a jumbled mess once the LCD-2 is back on my head.  But if you follow any singular note or instrument it sounds much more "live" than it does on Ether.
  
 So the bottom line is the OTL doesn't drive the Ether well and I'm not really sure why.  The tube combination that should have been able to drive it better actually drives it worse.  The 5998 is a better impedance match for the Ether too, it's really quite confusing.
  
 So while Ether + 45 =  I have to sadly report that Ether + OTL = :/


----------



## whirlwind

xcalibur255 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for your impressions, they are much appreciated and look forward to your findings with 5998
> ...


 
 Thanks much for the report!
  
 You are going to save me some cash.....I may have to revisit the HD650, for the third time


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

whirlwind said:


> Thanks much for the report!
> 
> You are going to save me some cash.....I may have to revisit the HD650, for the third time


 
  
 Maybe look into the ZMF Omni?  I'm thinking a Glenn OTL and Omni combo might be in my future...


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> Thanks much for the report!
> 
> You are going to save me some cash.....I may have to revisit the HD650, for the third time


 
  
 I would imagine the HD800S would be the ultimate pairing with Glenn's OTL, and it's around the same price as Ether.  Since my 45 amp dislikes high impedance headphones I went the other direction.  For me it's actually quite worrying to see a trend of everything going to higher impedance, including planars.  All the new Audeze models are quite high up there now.  I feel like I'm being locked out of new headphones in the future that will work well with my amp, so once I saw the Ether's 22 ohm impedance spec I sort of had this "well it's either this or nothing" kind of feeling you know?


----------



## whirlwind

xcalibur255 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks much for the report!
> ...


 
 Yeah, I hear you...I was only wondering as this is really the only headphone that has really had my attention.
  
 I mean the HD800 ticks all of the boxes for me really..so....no worries.....more cash for tubes...lol


----------



## lukeap69

I really like how my OTL Darna's tubes are arranged and I have informed Glenn about it. He told me that my amp is the only he built like that. The other 6BL7 amps he built use 6SN7 and mine uses C3g that's why he had to re-arranged the tubes. Quite thrilled that mine is unique (at least for now.) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Not sure if that is the reason why the gain is very high. I had to reduce the 'preamp' gain in Foobar so I can have a play with the volume. Glenn recommended to use 6BX7's to reduce the gain. I have to try 6AS7 yet. I am still amazed how the my *Darna* amp sound. This made my HD800SD really really enjoyable.
  
 Thanks Glenn! Superb amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The C3g has a lot more gain than the 6SN7 setup most of the OTLs have, that's where your increase is coming from.  Actually the total gain from a C3g/6BL7 setup would be really quite high overall.


----------



## TonyNewman

Some more amp porn with some nice glow from the Telefunken PY500s.
  
 Giving the Ether C a run with this amp at the moment. Very open, detailed, dynamic sound. This headphone can sound a little flat with other amps I have tried - not so with the Glenn 300B. Very nice pairing.


----------



## Khragon

After so many photos, I don't think there's any more excuse for another just good enough one.. time to bring out that DSLR .
  
 How do you like Ether C with Glenn 300B?  I tried Ether C for about a month and just couldn't learn to like it, sounds too thin for me.  HD800S is so much better.
  
 I'm inching closer to getting my own Glenn 300B...those naked C3g do look good, guess I'll try to remove the cover from a pair tomorrow.


----------



## lukeap69

tonynewman said:


> Some more amp porn with some nice glow from the Telefunken PY500s.
> 
> Giving the Ether C a run with this amp at the moment. Very open, detailed, dynamic sound. This headphone can sound a little flat with other amps I have tried - not so with the Glenn 300B. Very nice pairing.




Looks very nice Tony.

How is the mids of Ether C with your 300B? I did not like the Ether C / Liquid Carbon pairing when I heard them during our local meet. It seems I have some sensitive spot/frequency that was triggered by that pairing. It was a different case for Ether/Bryston pairing. That was nice.


----------



## punit

I too found the Ether C a bit lean when I tried them with Woo WA 5 at the local dealer. I have now moved completely to Planars & have sold most of my dynamic driver HP's, hence was looking to add to my Planar collection but they didn't have that "Planar Sound" (meaty mids & solid bass) that I like. I really liked the ZMF Omni when I tried them at a local meet.


----------



## TonyNewman

A lot better than I expected. I was losing the love for the Ether C - with any other amp I had tried they were a little on the thin and bright side. The Glenn 300B really seems to bring out the best in these cans.
  
 The mids are solidly good. Intimate, detailed, pleasant. The EAT 300B I am currently using is not the best tube out there for vocals - it is no TA300B/WE300B. I think once I get the Taks I have on order the pairing will be even better.
  
 The Ether C seems to be very picky on the amps that it likes. A bit like the HD800/HD800S in that regard, I guess.


----------



## TonyNewman

punit said:


> ... I have now moved completely to Planars & have sold most of my dynamic driver HP's,...


 
  
 I do like my HD800S - it's a very good headphone - but the modded HE6 outclasses it to my ears. I am starting to think that the Ether C might outdo the HD800S also, but only when paired to an amp it likes.
  
 What makes the Ether C remarkable IMHO is that it is a closed design with quite good sound isolation, but the sound doesn't feel like it is "closed in" at all. That it can compete with some of the best open cans out there (modded HE6 / HD800S) says a lot for it.


----------



## lukeap69

I agree with that Tony, the Ether C sounded like open headphones when I tried them. I was pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Rossliew

punit said:


> I too found the Ether C a bit lean when I tried them with Woo WA 5 at the local dealer. I have now moved completely to Planars & have sold most of my dynamic driver HP's, hence was looking to add to my Planar collection but they didn't have that "Planar Sound" (meaty mids & solid bass) that I like. I really liked the ZMF Omni when I tried them at a local meet.




How would you describe the sound of the Omni? Am curious and keen on this pair of headphones at the same time


----------



## Xcalibur255

tonynewman said:


> Some more amp porn with some nice glow from the Telefunken PY500s.
> 
> Giving the Ether C a run with this amp at the moment. Very open, detailed, dynamic sound. This headphone can sound a little flat with other amps I have tried - not so with the Glenn 300B. Very nice pairing.


 
  
 Ether seems to present a weird load to the amp it's connected to.  As a planar it should be presenting a non-reactive load, and combined with the sensitivity that means just about anything should drive it well.  But for some reason some amps do really well and others do quite poorly with it.


----------



## Khragon

That's interesting you say that.. I tried Ether C with Audio-gd Master 11, with 1 ohm output impedance and 16W max power, still I don't get any bass at all.  It can't be the amp, but I guess since so many seem to like it, make me think it's maybe... too bad I sold it, so will never find out, will probably wait for the 2nd gen of the Ether C before trying again.


----------



## TonyNewman

This is odd indeed. No bass problems at all for the Ether C with the Glenn 300B - tight, deep, powerful bass. Right up there with the modded HE6 (which has excellent bass).
  
 Ether C did not pair quite so well with the V281 for me - a little thin sounding and a little bright compared to the Glenn 300B. A picky headphone.


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> I too found the Ether C a bit lean when I tried them with Woo WA 5 at the local dealer. I have now moved completely to Planars & have sold most of my dynamic driver HP's, hence was looking to add to my Planar collection but they didn't have that "Planar Sound" (meaty mids & solid bass) that I like. I really liked the ZMF Omni when I tried them at a local meet.


 
 Somebody else here has mentioned the ZMF Omni.
  
 This is a 150 Ohm planar ?
  
 This is just , sort of, barely on my radar....lol
  
 I am a big comfort freak though and usually won,t even think of owning a heavy headphone......how heavy are these ?


----------



## punit

rossliew said:


> How would you describe the sound of the Omni? Am curious and keen on this pair of headphones at the same time


 
  


whirlwind said:


> Somebody else here has mentioned the ZMF Omni.
> 
> This is a 150 Ohm planar ?
> 
> ...


 
 These impressions  are based on a 15 mins listen at a meet. They are quite comfortable to wear (more comfortable & lighter than Audeze), but are slightly heavier than the new Hifiman's due to the wodden cups. I would describe them quite "Full" sounding , Good bass, nice mids , smooth treble. Warm but not dark.Decent sound stage too.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

whirlwind said:


> Somebody else here has mentioned the ZMF Omni.
> 
> This is a 150 Ohm planar ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Omni is based on the Fostex T50rp Mk3
  
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/products/New_RP-Series.shtml#content-3-tab-tab
  
 And I apologize, they are 50 Ohm, not 150 Ohm


----------



## Xcalibur255

tonynewman said:


> This is odd indeed. No bass problems at all for the Ether C with the Glenn 300B - tight, deep, powerful bass. Right up there with the modded HE6 (which has excellent bass).
> 
> Ether C did not pair quite so well with the V281 for me - a little thin sounding and a little bright compared to the Glenn 300B. A picky headphone.


 
  
 Exactly.  It's weird how some people report very poor bass with this headphone and some like us say the bass is just fine.  In all cases people are using good amps with a low output impedance so there must be a factor in play that's unknown.
  
 So far the cans seem to do consistently well on good transformer coupled tube amps, everything else is a roll of the dice it seems.


----------



## Rossliew

Anyone tried it with the Glenn OTL yet? This amp may spring a surprise or two with planars/low impedance headphones...


----------



## whirlwind

buttuglyjeff said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Somebody else here has mentioned the ZMF Omni.
> ...


 
 Yeah, I sent Zach a pm and he told me that they were only 50 ohm headphones...so they are now off of my radar again


----------



## raybone0566

Officially part of the Glenn otl club as of this evening. vc1187's amp arrived safe & sound, I must say what I'm hearing is simply stellar.


----------



## JazzVinyl

raybone0566 said:


> Officially part of the Glenn otl club as of this evening. vc1187's amp arrived safe & sound, I must say what I'm hearing is simply stellar.




Very very nice!!

Congrats!


----------



## 2359glenn

raybone0566 said:


> Officially part of the Glenn otl club as of this evening. vc1187's amp arrived safe & sound, I must say what I'm hearing is simply stellar.


 

 Cool   A oldie went through a few people


----------



## raybone0566

2359glenn said:


> Cool   A oldie went through a few people


Glenn, please don't scratch me off the list just yet. I'm not ready to throw the towel in yet


----------



## lukeap69

raybone0566 said:


> Officially part of the Glenn otl club as of this evening. vc1187's amp arrived safe & sound, I must say what I'm hearing is simply stellar.




What tubes are you using?


----------



## raybone0566

lukeap69 said:


> What tubes are you using?


Gec 6080, Cv378 fat bottle, Mullard ecc31 w/ 6sn7 adapter. 
Glenn curious if I can run low z can with this amp. Vernon said there may be a certain tube I can use but wasn't sure which one.


----------



## lukeap69

raybone0566 said:


> Gec 6080, Cv378 fat bottle, Mullard ecc31 w/ 6sn7 adapter.
> Glenn curious if I can run low z can with this amp. Vernon said there may be a certain tube I can use but wasn't sure which one.




Glenn told me that 2 or 4 6AS7 or 2 6336 are good for low Z cans. Your 6080 should do the job. Have you tried them with any of your low Z hp?


----------



## Rossliew

raybone0566 said:


> Gec 6080, Cv378 fat bottle, Mullard ecc31 w/ 6sn7 adapter.
> Glenn curious if I can run low z can with this amp. Vernon said there may be a certain tube I can use but wasn't sure which one.


 

 Don't be fooled into thinking this OTL amp cannot drive low z cans as it surely can. It pairs very well with Grados and Oppo PM1/2 cans in my home  Haven't tried it with the Audezes but this amp will surprise you


----------



## raybone0566

lukeap69 said:


> Glenn told me that 2 or 4 6AS7 or 2 6336 are good for low Z cans. Your 6080 should do the job. Have you tried them with any of your low Z hp?


No, I spent the whole first evening with the 650's. Then woke a few hours early to get an album in before heading to work. I've got the Fostex Th-x00's going to try this evening.


----------



## lukeap69

raybone0566 said:


> No, I spent the whole first evening with the 650's. Then woke a few hours early to get an album in before heading to work. I've got the Fostex Th-x00's going to try this evening.


 
 Okay, let us know how it goes.
  
 I have just received a pair of Chatham 6AS7G and now are in place of sixtuplets 6BL7. It is too early to build my impression but my PM-2 sound very warm. Too warm that it they sound almost veiled. 
  
 My TH-X00, on the other hand, sound gorgeous. The high is not harsh like when using 6BL7's. Nice slam. Nice powerful and more controlled (not boomy.)
  
 Will continue to burn the tubes in and will report back... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
 It will be interesting to know your impression of the TH-X00 and your OTL amp with the GEC 6080.


----------



## raybone0566

lukeap69 said:


> Okay, let us know how it goes.
> 
> I have just received a pair of Chatham 6AS7G and now are in place of sixtuplets 6BL7. It is too early to build my impression but my PM-2 sound very warm. Too warm that it they sound almost veiled.
> 
> ...


i hope to get similar results because that boomy you describe is what I've been experiencing. I've read on another forum they perform well with good tube amps. We shall see. I was really amazed at how my 650's were with the Glenn amp. i ran through quite a bit of my Dave Matthews & was into a Johnny winter album when I noticed it was after midnight.


----------



## lukeap69

I should have said 'less boomy'.


----------



## vc1187

lukeap69 said:


> Okay, let us know how it goes.
> 
> I have just received a pair of Chatham 6AS7G and now are in place of sixtuplets 6BL7. It is too early to build my impression but my PM-2 sound very warm. Too warm that it they sound almost veiled.
> 
> ...


 
 Looks like you've been doing some tube rolling since this post
  
 Still not planning on rolling much?  Doesn't it make you curious what the potential of your OTL is?


----------



## lukeap69

vc1187 said:


> Looks like you've been doing some tube rolling since this post
> 
> Still not planning on rolling much?  Doesn't it make you curious what the potential of your OTL is?


 
 I wasn't really planning but since Glenn included Russian 6AS7 which are 'okay' I got curious and both the Chathams. LOL
  
 I will stop rolling for now... Wait, after I received a pair of Sylvania 6BL7's. I will stop...


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> ...I will stop rolling for now... Wait, after I received a pair of Sylvania 6BL7's. I will stop...


 
  
 "Tube-Crack" addiction in action. Just one more hit of glass encased audio goodness...


----------



## whirlwind

raybone0566 said:


> lukeap69 said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn told me that 2 or 4 6AS7 or 2 6336 are good for low Z cans. Your 6080 should do the job. Have you tried them with any of your low Z hp?
> ...


 
 Funny you said that you got up early to hear an album before work.
  
 Ever since I received my amp from Glenn, I have got in the routine of getting up early before work and listening to an album...man do I ever enjoy that
  
 Happy listening.


----------



## 2359glenn

raybone0566 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Cool   A oldie went through a few people
> ...


 

 OK
 I might have a new amp out soon less costly then the 300B and still transformer output.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> OK
> I might have a new amp out soon less costly then the 300B and still transformer output.


 
  
 Better, faster, deeper, cheaper? Any details you can share with the unwashed masses?


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> OK
> I might have a new amp out soon less costly then the 300B and still transformer output.


 

 I still want the 300B


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> OK
> I might have a new amp out soon less costly then the 300B and still transformer output.


 
 Oh please share... curiosity peaked.  How nice Glenn, to drop this on me so close to having my 300B done .


----------



## TonyNewman

My money is on a 2A3 version of the 300b amp. That would still have enough grunt (3W?) to drive almost anything short of the HE6, and the 2A3 tubes are said to sound sublime (a minature 300B). Transformers would presumably be quite a bit smaller (and therefore cheaper).
  
 If I didn't already have a 300B version I would want one (I want one anyway, but sanity has to step in at some point).


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> raybone0566 said:
> 
> 
> > 2359glenn said:
> ...


 
 I'm in....save one for me


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> My money is on a 2A3 version of the 300b amp. That would still have enough grunt (3W?) to drive almost anything short of the HE6, and the 2A3 tubes are said to sound sublime (a minature 300B). Transformers would presumably be quite a bit smaller (and therefore cheaper).
> 
> If I didn't already have a 300B version I would want one (I want one anyway, but sanity has to step in at some point).


 
 Maybe #45, I think Glenn likes #45 tube better, about 1.5W.


----------



## gibosi

Or.. I remember that several weeks ago, Glenn posted that he was planning to build a new amp for himself, using the  EL3N....
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/13185#post_12563152


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Or.. I remember that several weeks ago, Glenn posted that he was planning to build a new amp for himself, using the  EL3N....


 

 That would be it supposed to sound as good as a 2A3.
 EL3N driving a EL3N output 1.1 watt in Triode and 4 watts in pentode.
 Custom Lundahl transformers coming in June.
 If it sounds good I will see if anybody wants one.


----------



## gibosi

I am sure it will sound great.
  
 And folks may want to grab a couple pairs of EL3N, and perhaps the older EL3, soon, before the prices start to climb.


----------



## TonyNewman

Had a shipment of 8 beautiful NIB Telefunken PY500s today, and tradgedy... <queue BeeGees song>
  

  
 Too much rough handling by the parcel neanderthals + not enough bubble-wrap = tubepin-a-geddon.


----------



## gibosi

In the past, I have had good success straightening bent pins on all-glass tubes using a pair of needle-nose pliers -- slowly and gently. Good luck!


----------



## TonyNewman

gibosi said:


> In the past, I have had good success straightening bent pins on all-glass tubes using a pair of needle-nose pliers -- slowly and gently. Good luck!


 
  
 Tried that - no luck. One pin went loose and the tube lost vacuum (I think) - won't work anymore.
  
 Ah well, only a PY500 - not a 300B.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > In the past, I have had good success straightening bent pins on all-glass tubes using a pair of needle-nose pliers -- slowly and gently. Good luck!
> ...


 

 Dam
 I have a AZ1 globe mesh plate coming and it was put in a envelope wrapped in bubble wrap.
 Who knows what I am going to get by time it gets here from Europe. What is wrong with a box?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > gibosi said:
> ...


 
 No kidding, why pack a vacuum tube in an envelope instead of a box.
  
 I could never pack anything made of glass in an envelope.


----------



## raybone0566

2359glenn said:


> OK
> I might have a new amp out soon less costly then the 300B and still transformer output.


Splendid.
I've had a love hate relationship with the 800's since the day I bought them. After the cork & resonator mod they were a bit better but still to lean for my tastes. They were going to be sold if that didn't change when the amp arrived. Happy to say they will be staying as this combo is terrific. Spent the evening with them going through mostly my John Mayer & Jack Johnson collection. Such an engagement factor. TGIF everyone.


----------



## 2359glenn

raybone0566 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > OK
> ...


 

 Yes TGIF and a 3 day weekend
 I originally made the amp for the HD-800 and HD-650 so it sounds pretty good with them.
 Don't think you will find a better combo for the price.


----------



## punit

2359glenn said:


> Don't think you will find a better combo for the price.




I fully agree


----------



## vc1187

raybone0566 said:


> Splendid.
> I've had a love hate relationship with the 800's since the day I bought them. After the cork & resonator mod they were a bit better but still to lean for my tastes. They were going to be sold if that didn't change when the amp arrived. Happy to say they will be staying as this combo is terrific. Spent the evening with them going through mostly my John Mayer & Jack Johnson collection. Such an engagement factor. TGIF everyone.




Glad to know your opinion of the HD800 has changed! Did you find a new combination of tubes that you prefer with the hd800 or are you using the ones I suggested?


----------



## raybone0566

vc1187 said:


> Glad to know your opinion of the HD800 has changed! Did you find a new combination of tubes that you prefer with the hd800 or are you using the ones I suggested?


I haven't rolled any tubes yet. I've got the set you recommended for the 650's in. I've got three days off, so I'll probably experiment over the weekend. The best tube Amp I had before this was the vahalla2, but this amp is on a totally different level.cant even begin to compare them as this amp just smokes it in everything.


----------



## WB2016

Hi Glenn,

Mordy told me to ask you regarding external heating of an Elise in Europe. You recommended the Mauser Triad F22a 115V/6.3V/20A and I have been unable to find something equivalent for 230V EU. Do you have any recommendation for a transformer that can be used instead of the F22a? Hopefully roughly for the same price.

Something like this was suggested, but I am unsure if this would fit the requirements and also a block transformer would be esthetically more pleasing than a toroidal. Again my knowledge of transformers is extremely limited and I wanted to ask an expert.

http://www.toroidal-transformer.com/shop/toroidal-transformers/120va/55/2x-6v-toroidal-transformer-120va.html

Thanks in advance for your help.

Take Care
WB


----------



## 2359glenn

wb2016 said:


> Hi Glenn,
> 
> Mordy told me to ask you regarding external heating of an Elise in Europe. You recommended the Mauser Triad F22a 115V/6.3V/20A and I have been unable to find something equivalent for 230V EU. Do you have any recommendation for a transformer that can be used instead of the F22a? Hopefully roughly for the same price.
> 
> ...


 

 That toroidal transformer will be fine.
 A EI transformer would look better but don't know of one off the shelf with a 230 volt primary.
 I can have one wound were I get my transformers made Heybor transformer but it would be about 6 weeks to be made. Plus at least $25 to ship to Europe.
 This would look the same as the F22a but have a 230 volt primary.
 If meany people wanted this and do a group buy the price would come down and get made faster then a single.
  
 Glenn


----------



## WB2016

Thanks Glenn, 

I will keep my eyes open. 

Take Care
WB


----------



## dminches

Glenn, can a EY500 be substituted for a PY500 in the 300B amps?  The specs seem different but I have no clue if it can work.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Glenn, can a EY500 be substituted for a PY500 in the 300B amps?  The specs seem different but I have no clue if it can work.


 
 No
 Same tube with different heater voltage EY500=6.3 volts  PY500=42 volts     EY500/6EC4    PY500/42EC4
  
 Glenn


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> No
> Same tube with different heater voltage EY500=6.3 volts  PY500=42 volts     EY500/6EC4    PY500/42EC4
> 
> Glenn


 
  
 Thanks Glenn. I was a dumbass and ordered a bunch of EY500 from Ebarf - I wasn't even drunk at the time. That at least would have been a decent excuse


----------



## Khragon

Hmm maybe an adapter to reduce the heater voltage will allow the usage of EY500?


----------



## lukeap69

raybone0566 said:


> No, I spent the whole first evening with the 650's. Then woke a few hours early to get an album in before heading to work. I've got the Fostex Th-x00's going to try this evening.


 
 Have you tried paring your TH-X00 yet? Would like to hear your impressions.
  
 So far, I am enjoying my TH-X00 with a pair of Chatham 6AS7G. The high is not harsh and the bottom end impact is very nice. Bass has been tamed and it is also nice. The PM-2 also sound very good now. The veiled sound I have heard initially is gone. I am consistently alternating between HD800SD, PM-2 and TH-X00 and all of them wow me everytime. Jeff Beck/SRV album and the new Santana IV are amazing with all of them. HD800SD is still my favourite and the other 2 hps are neck and neck! The Rok is now only used as speaker amp (driving my LS50). Would eventually be comparing the Rok and the Darna. The only difficult thing about the comparison is every different tube I try with the Darna, the sound changes but none sounded bad yet with her. Joe (@whirlwind) is right, Glenn OTL amp sounds very good whatever tubes you use with it. That is my experience so far even with the 'OK' Russian 6AS7 that Glenn provided for free!


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> That would be it supposed to sound as good as a 2A3.
> EL3N driving a EL3N output 1.1 watt in Triode and 4 watts in pentode.
> Custom Lundahl transformers coming in June.
> If it sounds good I will see if anybody wants one.


 
 I will start saving up for this one. I will also start thinking for a name for this amp - what say you @TonyNewman?


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> I will start saving up for this one. I will also start thinking for a name for this amp - what say you @TonyNewman?


 
  
 If I didn't already have the 300B amp I would be all over this like herpes on a 10 dollar hooker...


----------



## lukeap69

tonynewman said:


> If I didn't already have the 300B amp I would be all over this like herpes on a 10 dollar hooker...


 
 Your 300B amp must be a monster! I don't know what can better that.


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> Your 300B amp must be a monster! I don't know what can better that.


 
  
 An 845 version of the same design. 2xPY500 rectifiers, 4xC3G (2 to drive each 845). 20W of class A audio nectar. Enough to melt a HE6.
  
 The thing would cost a small fortune and weigh something like 40kg. I mention the concept to Glenn whenever I want him to doubt my sanity.
  
 It would be AWESOME, but just isn't sane.


----------



## lukeap69

tonynewman said:


> An 845 version of the same design. 2xPY500 rectifiers, 4xC3G (2 to drive each 845). 20W of class A audio nectar. Enough to melt a HE6.
> 
> The thing would cost a small fortune and weigh something like 40kg. I mention the concept to Glenn whenever I want him to doubt my sanity.
> 
> It would be AWESOME, but just isn't sane.


 
 40kg? That's one pack of cement!


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> 40kg? That's one pack of cement!


 
  
 A rough guess based on a Triode brand 845 amp I used to own. The transformers in that thing were hefty, to say the least. Weight was 42kg and it pumped out heat like a BBQ.


----------



## lukeap69

tonynewman said:


> A rough guess based on a Triode brand 845 amp I used to own. The transformers in that thing were hefty, to say the least. Weight was 42kg and it pumped out heat like a BBQ.


 
 It is truly an all in one amp then. It can power the HE-6 and grille BBQ at the same time! Makes me hungry. Where are the food pics when you need them.


----------



## leftside

42 KG isn't so heavy for regular amps. Maybe for a headphone amp tho... 

Heavy doesn't necessarily mean it should output a lot of heat tho. My big Mac amps are very cool - even when driven very hard.


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> 42 KG isn't so heavy for regular amps. Maybe for a headphone amp tho...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The 845 tube chucks out about 100W of heat (each) to produce 20W of audio signal. That's 200W - in summer it is brutal.


----------



## raybone0566

Glad I held on to my 800's until my amp arrived. Listened to some Ryan Bingham & John mayall this morning & it was like a totally different headphone. Will spend the evening with a bit of buddy guy & the 650's. Cheers


----------



## whirlwind

raybone0566 said:


> Glad I held on to my 800's until my amp arrived. Listened to some Ryan Bingham & John mayall this morning & it was like a totally different headphone. Will spend the evening with a bit of buddy guy & the 650's. Cheers


 
 I was able to see Buddy Guy last fall.
  
 I have now crossed it off of my bucket list.....what a great player and a fun performer.


----------



## raybone0566

whirlwind said:


> I was able to see Buddy Guy last fall.
> 
> I have now crossed it off of my bucket list.....what a great player and a fun performer.


He was at jazz fest earlier this month but unfortunately I wasn't able to make it. Great player indeed


----------



## JazzVinyl

raybone0566 said:


> He was at jazz fest earlier this month but unfortunately I wasn't able to make it. Great player indeed




100% agree, Saw Buddy Guy a couple of years back, had a great time, he is an outstanding musician with fantastic showmanship. 

He was having a good time, and it was infectious, made everyone there, enjoy themselves.


----------



## jhljhl

Has there been a 2a3 Glenn amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> Has there been a 2a3 Glenn amp?


 

 No but I am making a EL3N amp that supposed to sound like one.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Hey Glenn, can 45 tubes oscillate?
  
 I have two different pairs where one tube makes a sort of farting/sputtering sound intermittently,mostly low frequency.  The only cause I could think of is oscillation, but triodes don't usually have this problem I thought.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Hey Glenn, can 45 tubes oscillate?
> 
> I have two different pairs where one tube makes a sort of farting/sputtering sound intermittently,mostly low frequency.  The only cause I could think of is oscillation, but triodes don't usually have this problem I thought.


 
 Hi
 Are these tubes NOS or used???
 Some of these old tubes have problems I tried to make a amp that used 71As and they moaned groaned squealed and made all
 sorts of noises. I gave up on them.
 You might buy from a dealer instead of E-Bay you can return them if they are bad. Or try EML they would be new with all good
 connections in the tubes. I know EML is expensive but it might be worth it.


----------



## jhljhl

2359glenn said:


> No but I am making a EL3N amp that supposed to sound like one.


 

 Ok look forward to its release!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

2359glenn said:


> No but I am making a EL3N amp that supposed to sound like one.


 
  
 I'm looking forward to some pics too...


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Hi
> Are these tubes NOS or used???
> Some of these old tubes have problems I tried to make a amp that used 71As and they moaned groaned squealed and made all
> sorts of noises. I gave up on them.
> ...


 
  
 Highly likely they were used.  I'm thinking about going for EMLs, maybe later in the year.
  
 Most of my 6BY5s make that high pitch whining noise too, like the tv damper diodes they are.  I wish I had known about it beforehand since I have no alternative to the tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...


 

 The 6BY5s make a whining sound in the headphones??? odd for a rectifier like that to make noise in the circuit.
 You can buy them at ESRC  6BY5G for $4.00 and 6BY5GA for $3.00 buy a bunch at this price and pick out
 the good ones. And they are so cheep for new ones that why buy junk on E-Bay.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> The 6BY5s make a whining sound in the headphones??? odd for a rectifier like that to make noise in the circuit.
> You can buy them at ESRC  6BY5G for $4.00 and 6BY5GA for $3.00 buy a bunch at this price and pick out
> the good ones. And they are so cheep for new ones that why buy junk on E-Bay.


 
  
 Not in the headphones.  It's a mechanical noise from the tube itself.  Usually a combination of rattle/tinkle sound and a very high pitch whine/squeal.  The exact same high pitch whine I remember hearing from TVs when I was a kid, which I'm confident is not a coincidence.  
  
 I keep buying them but they keep ending up noisy, and after what happened to the amp I don't really like the idea of rolling lots of rectifiers in and out.  I just need to find one pair that doesn't suck, but no luck so far.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The 6BY5s make a whining sound in the headphones??? odd for a rectifier like that to make noise in the circuit.
> ...


 

 The high pitch whine you herd from TVs was not the tubes it was the horizontal output transformer vibrating
 The horizontal frequency is 15750 Hz at about 100 watts. Also the deflection yoke ( the electromagnet on the neck of the pic tube )
 that the transformer was driving may be also vibrating at that same frequency. SS TVs did the same thing.
  
 Just buy a bunch of  6BY5 tubes and try them. Just don't clean the pins with with steel wool or anything else. If there is not a
 problem with dirty pins don't fix it. All those cleaners just screw up your tube sockets. I know people on here
 get anneal about cleaning pins if there is no noise don't do it. It does more harm then good.
  
 I will look I may have 1 or 2  6BY5s left but they are GA not G so not as good looking.
  
 You can here this mechanical noise the tubas are making over the music playing????


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Just buy a bunch of  6BY5 tubes and try them. Just don't clean the pins with with steel wool or anything else. If there is not a
> problem with dirty pins don't fix it. All those cleaners just screw up your tube sockets. I know people on here
> get anneal about cleaning pins if there is no noise don't do it. It does more harm then good.


 
  
 How does cleaning pins screw up tube sockets?


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> How does cleaning pins screw up tube sockets?




Think he means does more harm than good, to the tube pins?


----------



## leftside

I'm not a fan of the steel wool method of cleaning (too abrasive/rough), but I do like to use a "little" deoxit. Even clean looking pins have actually been quite dirty.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Just buy a bunch of  6BY5 tubes and try them. Just don't clean the pins with with steel wool or anything else. If there is not a
> ...


 
 If there is not a problem don't fix it. By putting deoxit on the pins all the time it gets in the sockets and builds up.
 I would use it if there is a problem of noise if you wiggle the tube if not leave well enough alone.
 Tubes were in use for 80 years or more there were no such thing as deoxit and telephones always worked radio stations were on 24/7
 without any problems.
 If it is a must use a dremel with a wire wheel to shine up the pins leave out the gunk.


----------



## gibosi

Thanks for the clarification. And it makes sense... an accumulation of deoxit in the socket can't be good. And I am relieved... I rarely use deoxit. Usually I just use fine sandpaper -- quick and easy.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Thanks for the clarification. And it makes sense... an accumulation of deoxit in the socket can't be good. And I am relieved... I rarely use deoxit. Usually I just use fine sandpaper -- quick and easy.


 

 Good Idea sand paper.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I believe deoxit should only be used to remove heavy buildup on pins for tubes that were sitting on a shelf without a box.  If you leave it on the pins that stuff builds up in your sockets bigtime.  My final cleaning step has always been isopropyl alcohol so the pins don't actually have any residue on them.
  
 I still believe looping steel wool and working it back and forth works super well, I'm just really REALLY careful that there aren't any strands left stuck to the pins afterward.  I look at them in sunlight now.  
  
 Glenn, the noise isn't so bad I can hear it while listening, it's only between tracks.  I just find it annoying is all.  I also have a suspicion that the straight bottle 6BY5GA actually sounds better than the older G type.  I'm in the middle of trying to confirm that right now.  I couldn't say why, maybe it's all in my head, but whenever I experience glassy treble after a tube roll it's always with the G tubes, never the GA.  I know the GA has higher voltage ratings so maybe the tube is just less strained than the G is.


----------



## Xcalibur255

leftside said:


> I'm not a fan of the steel wool method of cleaning (too abrasive/rough), but I do like to use a "little" deoxit. Even clean looking pins have actually been quite dirty.


 
  
 You have to use the ultra fine stuff.  I roll into a thin strand as if you're rolling a cigarette paper and then loop it around the pin and work it back and forth.  You can get those pins as smooth as the glass bottle this way.  You can also blow up your amp if a strand of wool is left touching the wrong two pins together.  I got to experience this personally.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Thanks for the clarification. And it makes sense... an accumulation of deoxit in the socket can't be good. And I am relieved... I rarely use deoxit. Usually I just use fine sandpaper -- quick and easy.


 

 I only ever use it once. Should be another 40-50 years until it is needed again


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> If there is not a problem don't fix it. By putting deoxit on the pins all the time it gets in the sockets and builds up.
> I would use it if there is a problem of noise if you wiggle the tube if not leave well enough alone.
> Tubes were in use for 80 years or more there were no such thing as deoxit and telephones always worked radio stations were on 24/7
> without any problems.
> If it is a must use a dremel with a wire wheel to shine up the pins leave out the gunk.


 

 But did they tube roll back then?  (and leave tubes on shelves to accumulate gunk).


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> I believe deoxit should only be used to remove heavy buildup on pins for tubes that were sitting on a shelf without a box.  If you leave it on the pins that stuff builds up in your sockets bigtime.  My final cleaning step has always been isopropyl alcohol so the pins don't actually have any residue on them.
> 
> I still believe looping steel wool and working it back and forth works super well, I'm just really REALLY careful that there aren't any strands left stuck to the pins afterward.  I look at them in sunlight now.
> 
> Glenn, the noise isn't so bad I can hear it while listening, it's only between tracks.  I just find it annoying is all.  I also have a suspicion that the straight bottle 6BY5GA actually sounds better than the older G type.  I'm in the middle of trying to confirm that right now.  I couldn't say why, maybe it's all in my head, but whenever I experience glassy treble after a tube roll it's always with the G tubes, never the GA.  I know the GA has higher voltage ratings so maybe the tube is just less strained than the G is.


 

 GAs are only $3 so you can buy a bunch of them for little and find a couple that are to your liking.


----------



## TonyNewman

Replacement 300B tube arrived today and the glow is back. Love the glow.
  
 Warranty replacement went very smoothly - not a drama at all.
  
 Now, the burn in. The joy.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> GAs are only $3 so you can buy a bunch of them for little and find a couple that are to your liking.


 
  
 I'm starting to think the ones that vibrate more sound worse, maybe microphonics.  It's coming down to just trying tube after tube to find ones that behave, but this is exactly what I wanted to avoid.  First pair I find that doesn't suck isn't coming out of those sockets until they die.  Definitely not a fun form of tube rolling.
  
 These 6BY5 tubes seem to be mostly junk in general.  I wonder why that is?  I've never seen a rectifier tube physically vibrate and rattle itself like these do, it's so strange.  And they all seem to do it to varying degrees.


----------



## Xcalibur255

*sigh*  Tried a new pair this evening, they're even noisier than the others in the box.  This feels like a fool's errand......


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> *sigh*  Tried a new pair this evening, they're even noisier than the others in the box.  This feels like a fool's errand......


 

 You can buy a bunch from ESRC. Or I can build you 2 SS adapters that just plug into the Tube sockets.
 They use HEXFRED diodes I have been experimenting with these and they sound as good as tube rectifiers.
 These will not make any noise maybe not look as cool and don't light up.
  
 Glenn


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> You can buy a bunch from ESRC. Or I can build you 2 SS adapters that just plug into the Tube sockets.
> They use HEXFRED diodes I have been experimenting with these and they sound as good as tube rectifiers.
> These will not make any noise maybe not look as cool and don't light up.
> 
> Glenn


 
  
 Yeah we talked about this a while back.  I'm still interested in trying this if you are.
  
 One more question for you Glenn:  can you tell me how the power supply is designed for my amp?  Is it dual mono where each rectifier tube is feeding a single channel, or do both rectifiers contribute together?  I'm getting a channel imbalance sometimes that I can mostly hear as the stereo center image being shifted to one side and I'm having a hard time nailing down where it's coming from. I'm trying to rule out one rectifier being weaker than the other as a source.


----------



## lukeap69

Darna and cafe latte for Joe @whirlwind


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

^^^ nice latte art


----------



## lukeap69

buttuglyjeff said:


> ^^^ nice latte art


 
 Thanks Jeff. Tastes lovely too.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > You can buy a bunch from ESRC. Or I can build you 2 SS adapters that just plug into the Tube sockets.
> ...


 

 I will look and see if I have 4 HEXFREDS  If I do I will make 2 adapters.
  
 The 6BY5s are hooked up as a single full wave bridge rectifier.
 If you are getting channel imbalance it probably is your output tubes 45s


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I will look and see if I have 4 HEXFREDS  If I do I will make 2 adapters.
> 
> The 6BY5s are hooked up as a single full wave bridge rectifier.
> If you are getting channel imbalance it probably is your output tubes 45s


 
  
 Okay, thanks Glenn.  That helps.  
  
 What I'm finding out is that out of all the 45s in my box every single pair has some kind of problem except for my globes.  Which is all well and good since they're the best, but I don't really want to use the globes full time without having some kind of backup to fall back onto and right now I don't.  If I could find a really good condition pair of Sylvania SX-245 globes that work as nicely as my Ken-Rad globes do I'd feel totally content.  I'm hesitant to spend the $600 on EML tubes because I don't know how they will sound.  The vintage globes have exactly the sound I want, the only gamble there is getting old stuff that might not work well. 
  
 I got super lucky when I bought my Ken-Rads, they have less than 0.5 mA of bias drift from cold to hot, that's just crazy good for an 85 year old pair of tubes.  All my coke bottle type 45 tubes don't do nearly that well, and most of them have noise issues too.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Darna and cafe latte for Joe @whirlwind


 
 Wow...what a wonderful way to start a morning.....Cafe latte, HD800 and a wonderful amp packed full of tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Bet the HD800 is sounding pretty good about now.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Wow...what a wonderful way to start a morning.....Cafe latte, HD800 and a wonderful amp packed full of tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It sounds amazing Joe. The best I have heard the HD800 with. Sometimes whilst listening, I am wondering if it is the HD800 on my head. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have rolled Sylvania 6BL7's yesterday in place of the GE 6BL7's. I am still giving them time to settle down. I hear quite different characteristics than the GE. If you have not listened to Santana IV, try the album. It's quite fun listening with...


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Wow...what a wonderful way to start a morning.....Cafe latte, HD800 and a wonderful amp packed full of tubes
> ...


 
 Glenn did a wonderful job in laying out your amp, it looks fantastic.
  
 Santana IV is is now on my "to buy list"


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> I have rolled Sylvania 6BL7's yesterday in place of the GE 6BL7's. I am still giving them time to settle down. I hear quite different characteristics than the GE. If you have not listened to Santana IV, try the album. It's quite fun listening with...


 
  
 You might also want to try GE 6BX7s.


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> You might also want to try GE 6BX7s.




Hi Ken

I would like to but it is not easy (for me)to find these buggers on ebay.


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> I would like to but it is not easy (for me)to find these buggers on ebay.


 
  
 Actually, probably more than 90% of the 6BX7 on eBay were manufactured by GE, regardless of the brand. Just look for the sandblasted tube type and dot codes on the side of the glass bottle. Only GE marked their tubes in this way. But yes, since you need 6, you will likely have to purchase them 1 or 2 at a time....


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> Actually, probably more than 90% of the 6BX7 on eBay were manufactured by GE, regardless of the brand. Just look for the sandblasted tube type and dot codes on the side of the glass bottle. Only GE marked their tubes in this way. But yes, since you need 6, you will likely have to purchase them 1 or 2 at a time....




Thanks for the info. How are you liking them so far?


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> Thanks for the info. How are you liking them so far?


 
  
 I'm liking the GE 6BX7 very much. Last night I rolled in a pair of flat-black embossed Siemens C3G and the music was great.


----------



## 2359glenn

Some pics of Khragon's amp
 Listening to it now through speakers.
  

  

  


 l


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Some pics of Khragon's amp
> Listening to it now through speakers.


 
  
 Nice. Love those old-school round bias meters. The new ones just don't look the same.


----------



## vc1187

tonynewman said:


> Nice. Love those old-school round bias meters. The new ones just don't look the same.




Agreed, that rectangular shape is pretty odd looking.


----------



## TonyNewman

vc1187 said:


> Agreed, that rectangular shape is pretty odd looking.


 
  
 It's the only thing about my amp that I don't like. Unfortunately the cool round meters were no longer available at the time my amp was build.


----------



## vc1187

tonynewman said:


> It's the only thing about my amp that I don't like. Unfortunately the cool round meters were no longer available at the time my amp was build.




Oops, sorry didn't mean to insult your amp


----------



## TonyNewman

vc1187 said:


> Oops, sorry didn't mean to insult your amp


 
  
 Not at all - I made the point about the meters because your version looks so cool. I am envious of those meters


----------



## vc1187

*Khragon's version. I'm in the same envy boat as you... As a matter of fact, I'm floating on a log of envy instead, as I don't even have a Glenn 300B!


----------



## Khragon

I'm super excited.  In fact, updated my profile photo! 
  
 Those meter are NOS, I didn't know that until recently.  I got myself on spare at a pretty good price on eBay just in case.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Some pics of Khragon's amp
> ...


 
  
 Most newer meters are now rectangular and after cutting the holes a round meter would be to close to the
 large tube sockets I am now using. They are good sockets though made in Korea.


----------



## Xcalibur255

If you guys like vintage looking meters I have a pair of NOS Simpson meters from the 30's-40's that are just insanely cool looking.  They are currently in Glenn's posession, I bought them for a project I decided not to pursue (speaker monoblocks).  I'd be happy to donate them to somebody's amp project.  I'd rather see them get used and enjoyed by somebody than just sit around.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Found the pic I took of them before I sent them to Glenn.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> Found the pic I took of them before I sent them to Glenn.


 
  
 Nice. I find the old style meters just fit the look of the tube amps so very well. Pity they aren't made anymore.
  
 I hope they go into a nice Glenn amp for someone.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > Found the pic I took of them before I sent them to Glenn.
> ...


 

 Been saving them for you to come up with something Tyrell


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Been saving them for you to come up with something Tyrell


 
  
 And my mildly insane idea of an 845 version of the Glenn 300B amp wasn't good enough? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Because everyone needs a tube headamp that can melt headphones (and heat a moderately sized home).


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Been saving them for you to come up with something Tyrell


 
  
 You just have to tempt me.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I guess they're not quite suited for 300B use since they stop measuring at 75mA, but they would be perfect for a 2A3 build.
  
 One of the things I regret about my amp is picking meters that read 0-100 and then giving up on that 2A3 mode.  With 45 tubes only I could have gotten the same meters with a 0-50 scale, would have been much better suited for those tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Some pics of Khragon's amp
> Listening to it now through speakers.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Beautiful, I love those round meters also....they just seem to fit the look of the amp.


----------



## lukeap69

What are the meters for?


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> What are the meters for?


 

 They measure the cathode current in the 300Bs and use them to set the bias on the 300Bs.
 They should be between 60 and 80 Millie amps.


----------



## gibosi

Maybe I need one of these meters on my OTL to allow me to adjust the bias for different drivers? lol


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn, I was at my mothers house today, going through some stuff that needed taken out of the house, sadly we had to put her in a nursing home a couple of months ago , as she could not take care of herself at 93 years old.
  
 I thought that we has sold all of my fathers tv equipment years ago after he died, and we sold the tv shop.
  
 Much to my surprise, I found this in one of my mothers upstairs cabinets....I guess this one survived the sale.
  
 It is a Jackson 658


----------



## 2359glenn

Neat a old Jackson tube tester with a tube pin straightener.
 Try it test some of your tubes and see if it works


----------



## TonyNewman

Had a bit of a scare with my 300B amp last night that I thought I would share - I am curious if anyone else has had anything similar.
  
 I had a PY500 go bad, and that caused the circuit breaker to activate on my home power supply. Total blackout. Reset the power supply and put the amp back on - boom - same thing. Saw that one of the PY500s was arcing so replaced them - fixed. No damage to the amp or the other tubes in the amp at the time that I can detect. If any tubes are expendable, it is the PY500s (I have 40+). It was the Telefunkens that failed. Pity, as they are a nice looking tube.
  
 Anyway, the circuit breaker cutting in caused a surge, and that was transmitted from my PC to the USB input of my HD30 DAC. That was enough to fry the hardware for the USB input on the DAC. PC was surge protected, but not well enough, it seems. Not that big a drama as the HD30 has plenty of SPDIF inputs (1xCoax, 3xOptical, 1xBNC). The USB had slightly better SQ than the others, but we are talking a 5-10% difference at best. Not much.
  
 I will be replacing the 1.6A mains fuse in my amp with 1.2A fuses shortly (remember I am in a 230V region). Would prefer the amp mains fuse to blow than my home circuit breaker to trip next time, but stuff happens.
  
 So anyone else have a similar experience with a blown diode? I have previously had a channel go bad and cook the amp, and burst caps in my WA5 - never an issue like this with power supply, until now.
  
 Amp is happy and healthy - CNE tubes are also OK (have the warranty replacement unit and burn in continues).
  

  
 For those interested in the CNE tubes, apart from the early tube failure (which was replaced under warranty without hassle), I am very impressed with these beasties. SERPs could get a little too dark and the treble could suffer as a result. These tubes are showing much more balance with great extension at the top and bottom end. An improved SERP, I think. Doesn't have the Takatsuki mid range magic, but still a very nice sounding tube. Worth the money? I don't think so - not when Taks are available for around 50% more cash. Taks have a proven record for reliability and longevity, and a SQ that is just amazing. Worth the extra $$$ IMHO. *** NOTE only around 50/80 hours on these CNE tubes - so still early days ***


----------



## lukeap69

Scary. Aren't there any protective devices in the circuitry? I am not an EE so I don't know if this is even possible.


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> Scary. Aren't there any protective devices in the circuitry? I am not an EE so I don't know if this is even possible.


 
  
 It happened - so it is possible. As soon as I switched the amp on again after resetting the circuit breaker it triggered again - so that is absolutely the root cause.
  
 Replacing the PY500s fixed everything, except for the wrecked USB input on the HD30, of course.


----------



## leftside

tonynewman said:


> The USB had slightly better SQ than the others, but we are talking a 5-10% difference at best. Not much.


 
 At this level people will pay thousands of $'s for an extra 5-10% increase in sound quality...


----------



## lukeap69

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was talking about the protective device, if it is possible to install it in the amp e.g. if something goes wrong, the amp will shut down to not cause any problem with the connected devices.


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was talking about the protective device, if it is possible to install it in the amp e.g. if something goes wrong, the amp will shut down to not cause any problem with the connected devices.


 
 No problem. I am probably not doing a great job explaining what happened 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The amp didn't break the DAC - the power surge from the circuit breaker firing broke the DAC. The circuit breaker did what it was designed to do - shut down the power supply if there is a faulty device in the house circuit.
  
 After sitting in the dark for an hour on Saturday evening (NZ time) the power company technician explained this to me onsite. Very helpful guy. He had me test the amp and sure enough, the circuit break fired again immediately.
  
 The PC must have sent a power spike through to the HD30 via the USB connection (USB connections are powered, SPDIF is not - at least that is my understanding). Result is a HD30 with a buggered USB input.
  
 Having better surge protection on the PC might have saved the HD30. Nothing the amp could do to help once the PY500s failed. Lowering the amp fuse rating might help to prevent house circuit breaker from firing, but these are "slow blow" fuses and the circuit breaker trips in less than a second (it was almost instantaneous).


----------



## lukeap69

It is more complicated than I thought, thanks for explaining it. Perhaps a UPS feeding the PC will prevent this happening in future? Glad that everything except the USB input of your DAC is okay. You seem to have some (mis)adventures lately.


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> It is more complicated than I thought, thanks for explaining it. Perhaps a UPS feeding the PC will prevent this happening in future? Glad that everything except the USB input of your DAC is okay. You seem to have some (mis)adventures lately.


 
  
 I am cursed by the tube Gods. I think I must have been a serial killer in a previous life.
  
 A UPS for the PC is a good idea. Could only have helped in this scenario. I might add the PC power supply to the PS3 - that should stop any future surges. Wish I had of thought of that earlier.
  
 All a bit academic now - the HD30 USB input is severely FUBAR'ed, so it is Coax or Toslink input for now.
  
 My purpose in mentioning this sorry tale was to ask if anyone else has had a similar misfortune - a blown PY500 leading to a tripped house circuit... etc. I can't believe that I am unique in this sort of thing. I can't be that unlucky?
  
 I am just happy that the amp is undamaged, the 300B tubes are OK, and the DAC still works fine by SPDIF inputs. It could have been much worse.
  
 Amp sounds fantastic. CNE tubes are doing a fine job. Listening to this album - highly recommended for anyone that likes great vocals combined with some excellent Celtic arrangements.
  

  
 This is one of my all time favorite albums. I bought it not long after its first release in the mid 90s. Loved it ever since. Sounds superb via the Glenn 300B.


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> At this level people will pay thousands of $'s for an extra 5-10% increase in sound quality...


 
  
 True. This is the hobby for obsessive folks with disposable cash 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It was a small difference. Expending quite a bit of effort A/B testing showed that the USB input performed *slightly *better with the HD30 in my setup. Other folks using different (better) source hardware prefer the SPDIF input - so maybe I should look at upgrading my source next.
  
 Not much I can do about it now - the USB input is toasted. SQ is so good with SPDIF that I am not really going to miss the USB all that much, except for the convenience of having another input option.


----------



## lukeap69

Thanks Tony. I will check this album out. I use the PY500 as rectifiers but on my OTL amp. Hope the 300b owners can chime in. 

Enjoy.


----------



## TonyNewman

Just Googled the album - seems it did pretty well for itself back in the day.
  
LINK
  
 Very much a "made for tubes" album, if you know what I mean.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> To use a 5U4GB 596 5R4 is pushing it in the OTL .  The amp 6AS7s draw 100ma each and the 6SN7 about 20
> so the electronics of the amp is drawing 220ma.  The full wave rectifier changes AC to pulsating DC in USA
> 60Hz it will be 120 pulses a second. In Europe 50Hz it will be 100 pulses a second. These pulses charge the filter
> capacitors so the the amp runs on the charge on these capacitors. So when the pulse is high it has to run the
> ...


 
  
 Glenn, How does this calculation change if instead of two 6AS7, the amp uses six 6BL7? That is, do three 6BL7s draw the same 100ma as one 6AS7? And how about two 6BL7 per side instead of three?
  
 And does the 6BX7 draw the same current as the 6BL7?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> Had a bit of a scare with my 300B amp last night that I thought I would share - I am curious if anyone else has had anything similar.
> 
> I had a PY500 go bad, and that caused the circuit breaker to activate on my home power supply. Total blackout. Reset the power supply and put the amp back on - boom - same thing. Saw that one of the PY500s was arcing so replaced them - fixed. No damage to the amp or the other tubes in the amp at the time that I can detect. If any tubes are expendable, it is the PY500s (I have 40+). It was the Telefunkens that failed. Pity, as they are a nice looking tube.
> 
> ...


 

 Tony you might get away with a 1 amp fuse. I have a 2 amp fuse in khragon's amp with no problem at 120 volts. that would be
 the same as a 1 amp on 230 volts.
 I did have a 42EC4 do this on my SV572-3 amp but they were rectifying 1100 volt. There was a flash in one of the PY500/42EC4s and
 out went the lights. I use USA made ones now in that amp Sylvania never had a problem since in 20 years. They don't look as robust
 when you look at them but they seem to hold up better at high voltage. They are rated at 6000 volts for use in TVs so this should never happen.
 I gave my last 2 US made PY500s RCAs to Whirlwind when I sent him his amp should have kept them most of them are rebrands.
 This tube wasn't that common in US made TVs.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > To use a 5U4GB 596 5R4 is pushing it in the OTL .  The amp 6AS7s draw 100ma each and the 6SN7 about 20
> ...


 

 Three 6BL7/6BX7s will draw about the same as one 6AS7. 2 will draw less about 30ma less so a total of 60ma less on the power supply.
 You will get away with a lessor rectifier like a 5U4G


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Tony you might get away with a 1 amp fuse. I have a 2 amp fuse in khragon's amp with no problem at 120 volts. that would be
> the same as a 1 amp on 230 volts.
> I did have a 42EC4 do this on my SV572-3 amp but they were rectifying 1100 volt. There was a flash in one of the PY500/42EC4s and
> out went the lights. I use USA made ones now in that amp Sylvania never had a problem since in 20 years. They don't look as robust
> ...


 

 Tony, sorry to hear your trouble with the tubes again, I hope you can fix your DAC soon and get USB working again.  On the bright side, glad to know that the DAC's USB is the only thing that is affected and the amp is OK. 
  
 Since we're talking 42EC4, Glenn do you know how the Phillip 42EC4 reliability? I have a dozen of those, here hoping they will last me a long time.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Three 6BL7/6BX7s will draw about the same as one 6AS7. 2 will draw less about 30ma less so a total of 60ma less on the power supply.
> You will get away with a lessor rectifier like a 5U4G


 
  
 Oh goody! More tubes to roll! lol 
  
 From Dubstep Girl's review, there is one I would like to try, an old RCA 5U4G, and they are cheap!


----------



## Khragon

gibosi said:


> Oh goody! More tubes to roll! lol
> 
> From Dubstep Girl's review, there is one I would like to try, an old RCA 5U4G, and they are cheap!


 

 I used to have these on my WA5, they sounded pretty dull I think, they're cheap enough to try without feeling rip off, and maybe better on Glenn amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Tony you might get away with a 1 amp fuse. I have a 2 amp fuse in khragon's amp with no problem at 120 volts. that would be
> ...


 

 I have just put in a pair of Philips PY500s in your amp was using Tungsram like Tony had. I did notice that the Tungsrams didn't worm up evenly
 one would conduct before the other I didn't like that. One tube was taking all the current to charge the capacitors.
 I have no experience with the Philips but they do worm up evenly.
 I would say stay away from Tungsram!!!


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> I have just put in a pair of Philips PY500s in your amp was using Tungsram like Tony had. I did notice that the Tungsrams didn't worm up evenly
> one would conduct before the other I didn't like that. One tube was taking all the current to charge the capacitors.
> I have no experience with the Philips but they do worm up evenly.
> I would say stay away from Tungsram!!!


 
  
 Glad to know the Philips are working as expected.
  
 Any advice on how to observe for these uneven warm up problem for us non technies?


----------



## 2359glenn

It was obvious that one tube was worming up faster just by looking at it


----------



## leftside

tonynewman said:


> True. This is the hobby for obsessive folks with disposable cash
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You should  be able to get it repaired.


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> You should  be able to get it repaired.


 
  
 Maybe. Hegel use some whizz-bang components in the USB processing - depends on what got fried and how helpful they wish to be regarding parts if something proprietary got wasted. Not sure it is worth going down that road as SPDIF has plenty of inputs and sounds very nearly as good. Have to think about it some more.
  
 Another option might be using my home insurance and seeing if that will cover the cost of the repair.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Tony you might get away with a 1 amp fuse. I have a 2 amp fuse in khragon's amp with no problem at 120 volts. that would be
> the same as a 1 amp on 230 volts.
> I did have a 42EC4 do this on my SV572-3 amp but they were rectifying 1100 volt. There was a flash in one of the PY500/42EC4s and
> out went the lights. I use USA made ones now in that amp Sylvania never had a problem since in 20 years. They don't look as robust
> ...


 
  
 I have some USA made Sylvanias and "fat" RCAs. The RCAs have the best glow I have seen from a PY500 - a warm deep orange - very nice. Might pop those in.
  
 At least I am not the only one to experience this on the power supply side. I was adjusting the bias on the amp and BANG - out go the lights. Quite a sphincter-tightening surprise.
  
 I have the 1.2A fuses on order, will get some 1.0A also and try those too. Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have 40+ Yugoslav PY500 made for Grenada Television (back when the UK had domestic TV manufacturing). Supposedly these were made using ex-Telefunken machinery with technical handover from Telefunken on techniques and QA. They certainly look very similar to the German tubes. Seem to work fine so far.
  
 EDIT - might get the 1.0A mains fuses as standard or "fast blow". The circuit breaker on the home power supply kicks in lightning fast.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

tonynewman said:


> Maybe. Hegel use some whizz-bang components in the USB processing - depends on what got fried and how helpful they wish to be regarding parts if something proprietary got wasted. Not sure it is worth going down that road as SPDIF has plenty of inputs and sounds very nearly as good. Have to think about it some more.
> 
> Another option might be using my home insurance and seeing if that will cover the cost of the repair.


 
  
 I've been looking into raspberry pi with a SPDIF hat and external power supply as a dedicated music computer.  Its supposed to be low ground noise over typical USB.  Might be an alternative...


----------



## 2359glenn

When the PY500 I had blew it was more spectacular. They were running at 1100 volts at a 1/2 a amp.
 The SV572-3s are about the same power as a 211.
 I was listening to music stoned as hell and a big flash in one of the PY500s and out went the lights.
 It was more of a explosion inside the tube,
 This amp has a monster transformer 2200 volts center taped at 500ma the tube was destroyed inside
 surprised the glass didn't break.
 With the right tubes no problem for 20 years only problem SV572-3s are hard to get now so mostly
 using a 300B amp. But not 21 watts of thorated tungsten magic these Elrog 300Bs sound dam good
 got to get these tubes.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> ...I was listening to music stoned as hell...


 
  





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Good times indeed.


----------



## 2359glenn

I shouldn't add to this.
 Now I am listening to Khragon's amp with Elrog 300Bs and dam I like the sound of these tubes.
 Am listening with speakers at the moment.
 Was a pain in the ass to wire the 8 secondary winding to a switch but neat to use a headphone amp
 to drive speakers. Plenty of power Lucy was complaining that I have it to loud.
 Sure Khragon's 115 db speakers will be driven quite well with this amp.
  
 Khragon you will have the amp by next weekend.


----------



## Khragon

Thanks Glenn... looking forward to it.  I got to wire up that adapter cable asap now.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Thanks Glenn... looking forward to it.  I got to wire up that adapter cable asap now.


 

 You have a week maybe less.
 You are going to hook this amp to your speakers.


----------



## TonyNewman

Going to give the following fuse setup a try:
 Mains - 1.0A fast blow
 Each channel - 200mA fast blow
 Worst case is that I burn through some cheap fuses - big deal - that is a trivial matter compared to tripping the house circuit and breaking gear.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Tony an arc inside the rectifier is how I nuked the resistors in my amp.  Do you smell anything burnt if you put your nose near the transformer covers?
  
 How you managed to get a surge through your PC that could nuke the input on your DAC is kind of mysterious to me.  I would expect the power supply in that PC to be in trouble now, or maybe it just has bad regulation in the first place.  There are things inside a PC that are far more sensitive than the USB stack.  You'd get your RAM nuked, or if the motherboard doesn't have multi-phase regulation it could even nuke the CPU.  How you managed to put a surge through the USB port without damaging anything else is kind of bizarre.  Maybe it was just the path of least resistance?


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> Tony an arc inside the rectifier is how I nuked the resistors in my amp.  Do you smell anything burnt if you put your nose near the transformer covers?
> 
> How you managed to get a surge through your PC that could nuke the input on your DAC is kind of mysterious to me.  I would expect the power supply in that PC to be in trouble now, or maybe it just has bad regulation in the first place.  There are things inside a PC that are far more sensitive than the USB stack.  You'd get your RAM nuked, or if the motherboard doesn't have multi-phase regulation it could even nuke the CPU.  How you managed to put a surge through the USB port without damaging anything else is kind of bizarre.  Maybe it was just the path of least resistance?


 
  
 Nope - nothing toasted in the amp that I can sniff out. Working / sounding fine for me.
  
 The cause of the HD30 USB failure is a best guess. I really don't know for sure if the surge killed the HD30 USB input via the PC USB connection, or via the power supply to the HD30 itself. If it was via the power supply that is also bizarre as the HD30 is powered via a PS3 power regenerator. Seems unlikely that that this unit would transmit a spike to the DAC. One or the other must have happened, because the DAC worked fine before the house circuit breaker tripped, but sure as heck isn't working now. So either the PC sent a spike or the PS3 did. Take your pick.
  
 Both PC and PS3 are working fine now. Maybe it was the PS3? No way to be sure?


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > Tony an arc inside the rectifier is how I nuked the resistors in my amp.  Do you smell anything burnt if you put your nose near the transformer covers?
> ...


 

 It fixed it self?


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> It fixed it self?


 

 Nothing broken with either in the first place. The words "..fine now" might have implied otherwise - my poor use of English. 
  
 Glenn 300B, PC and PS3 are showing no ill effects I can detect. HD30 SPDIF input processing also appears to be fine.
  
 Casualties are: 2xPY500 tubes fried (I replaced them both to be safe) and the HD30 USB input trashed and the underpants I was wearing when the circuit breaker let go will need intensive laundry treatment. That's it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Just put the RCAs you have in should have no more poblems.
 Think they are made by Sylvania


----------



## Khragon

I got some some RCA and Sylvania, Philips and telefunken, I'll try to roll some of them in to see if they sound any different, but from all reports these don't sound different since they are over spec'ed for the amp, the only question is reliability, and glow-ability .  Look like telefunken takes the first place for glow, but questionable reliability, at least from Tony's experience.  RCA/Sylvania is #1 for reliability?


----------



## vc1187

Poor Tony.  You seem to have the worst luck when it comes to tubes... Your patience with this hobby is admirable.  I would've lost it by now.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> I got some some RCA and Sylvania, Philips and telefunken, I'll try to roll some of them in to see if they sound any different, but from all reports these don't sound different since they are over spec'ed for the amp, the only question is reliability, and glow-ability .  Look like telefunken takes the first place for glow, but questionable reliability, at least from Tony's experience.  RCA/Sylvania is #1 for reliability?


 
  
 I would rate the 'fat' RCAs as the best for glow that I have seen. Lovely deep orange - very nice. I don't have the gear or the skill to capture it properly in a picture.


----------



## TonyNewman

vc1187 said:


> Poor Tony.  You seem to have the worst luck when it comes to tubes... Your patience with this hobby is admirable.  I would've lost it by now.


 
  
 Given up on tubes a couple of times, but the Glenn 300B amp draws me back in. It will be my last tube amp - I will use and enjoy this amp to the max but everything else will be solid state for me going forward.
  
 If I ever do go for electrostatics it will be with an amp like the KGSSHV Carbon - not the BHSE. Had enough tube hassles to last me several lifetimes.
  
 The V281 amp has been a revelation in itself. If I had of found this amp earlier I would have exited the tube scene much sooner. It seems to combine many of the best elements of solid state and tube sound in one robust package. Lovely bit of kit.


----------



## vc1187

tonynewman said:


> The V281 amp has been a revelation in itself. If I had of found this amp earlier I would have exited the tube scene much sooner. It seems to combine many of the best elements of solid state and tube sound in one robust package. Lovely bit of kit.


 
 I used to own the V200 and it is a fantastic mid-fi SS amp.  Loved the generally warmer sound signature, yet fairly high detailed sound with no digital glare, which worked well with virtually every headphone you threw at it.  It's something you don't find often with SS amps.
  
 I can only imagine what the V281 sounds like with years of improvement from the V200 and in the territory of top of the line SS headphone amps.
  
 Given your track record, completely understandable why you'd be done with the Glenn 300B being your last.
 As someone who has been extremely lucky with tubes (knock on wood) and currently a tube addict, I cannot say that everything in my future will be SS. Speaking of... Glenn's new projects are beginning to sound very... Ok I'll stop


----------



## TonyNewman

vc1187 said:


> I used to own the V200 and it is a fantastic mid-fi SS amp.  Loved the generally warmer sound signature, yet fairly high detailed sound with no digital glare, which worked well with virtually every headphone you threw at it.  It's something you don't find often with SS amps.
> 
> I can only imagine what the V281 sounds like with years of improvement from the V200 and in the territory of top of the line SS headphone amps.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I haven't heard the V200, but my HeadFi buddy has had a loaner V200 and spent some hours with my V281 rig. V281 is a step up. Similar signature (touch of warmth), but more of the good things (dynamics / detail...etc). Also has a ton of power to drive the HE6, which not many amps have. V281 also has a dose of the "holographic effect" that previously I have only heard from tube gear. Might be a result of the V281 design (2xV220 [tweaked] sandwiched together). Not sure how it happens, but it happens. Love this amp.
  
 I can deal with my tube gear sometimes blowing up, but when it starts to take out other gear as a result - like my HD30 USB feed - that *really *makes me think twice. Glenn 300B is the end of the tube game for me. Nice thing is that with amps like the V281 / KGSSHV Carbon on the market the SQ gap is pretty small.
  
 Right now I would rate the V281 and Glenn 300B very close in terms SQ and enjoyment. Perhaps an edge to the Glenn 300B using the CNE tubes. These are turning out to be very nice sounding 300Bs indeed. I would expect the Glenn 300B to pull ahead further once I get the TA300B tubes - those tubes have a magic midrange that is quite special. The thing is that to get there you have spend a hefty wad of cash for the amp, then the tubes as well. That all adds up fast. Or you can buy a V281 and be done. Years and years of trouble free use - no tube burn in or tube burn out - and no nasty surprises. If I had to do it all again I would avoid tubes completely - but that is 20/20 hindsight. And I am addicted to the glow


----------



## Khragon

wait I thought you're trying to convince Glenn to build you that 845 space heater...


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> wait I thought you're trying to convince Glenn to build you that 845 space heater...


 
  
 That was a remote possibility even before my first 300B amp implosion - more an academic exercise and a bit of fun.
  
 Interesting to know that it could be done, if there are braver souls with deeper pockets than I have who are interested. 2xPY500 and 4xC3G and 2x845. It would be a hell of an amp, as well as a nice heater for winter. Anyone that has operated an 845 amp knows how impractical those beasts are.


----------



## whirlwind

Just checked the pair of PY500 that I have in my amp at the moment.....they both seem to warm up fairly evenly, the left channel is just a bit quicker than the left...not by much.
  
 Hopefully not a concern in my OTL amp.  The construction of these are pretty sturdy looking.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Just checked the pair of PY500 that I have in my amp at the moment.....they both seem to warm up fairly evenly, the left channel is just a bit quicker than the left...not by much.
> 
> Hopefully not a concern in my OTL amp.  The construction of these are pretty sturdy looking.


 

 I did give you a pair of US made RCAs with the amp I think.
 Those look like Matsu****a should be OK with them. They used them in there Panasonic TVs.


----------



## 2359glenn

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Just checked the pair of PY500 that I have in my amp at the moment.....they both seem to warm up fairly evenly, the left channel is just a bit quicker than the left...not by much.
> ...


 

 What the heck the name of a company was censored.


----------



## lukeap69

Is that Matsu$h!ta?


----------



## vc1187

Matsu*poop*a


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> Is that Matsu$h!ta?


 
  
 Yes, 松下電器産業 Also known as Panasonic.


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> Is that Matsu$h!ta?


 
 Yes


----------



## jhljhl

This often comes up but is not mentioned- tube amps offer pleasing harmonic distortion that ss do not as of yet.


----------



## TonyNewman

Not sure the PY500 brand is that much of a factor. Any tube can go bad and Telefunken hardly have a reputation for poor quality tubes.
  
 Given the horrendous consequences I had with the rectifier failure I am playing it safe and using my RCAs for now.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Glenn, with Khragon's amp almost complete, does that mean you are going to work on the EL3N amp project?  Or are you still waiting on parts?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Just checked the pair of PY500 that I have in my amp at the moment.....they both seem to warm up fairly evenly, the left channel is just a bit quicker than the left...not by much.
> ...


 
 Yes, you did give me a pair of PY500 RCA tubes Glenn


----------



## 2359glenn

buttuglyjeff said:


> Glenn, with Khragon's amp almost complete, does that mean you are going to work on the EL3N amp project?  Or are you still waiting on parts?


 

 Yes I will be starting the EL3N amp have the transformers now.
 Not sure when I will be finished maybe after I come back from Greece.
 Probably will be finished before I leave so I would say a couple of weeks.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

2359glenn said:


> Yes I will be starting the EL3N amp have the transformers now.
> Not sure when I will be finished maybe after I come back from Greece.
> Probably will be finished before I leave so I would say a couple of weeks.


 
  
 Very cool news, thanks.
  
 Is Greece a yearly trip for you?  I swear I remember reading here something about you being there before.  Is that when this thread gets flooded with food pics?


----------



## Xcalibur255

jhljhl said:


> This often comes up but is not mentioned- tube amps offer pleasing harmonic distortion that ss do not as of yet.


 
  
 For me it's all about glare or hardness in the sound.  Every SS amp I have ever heard has it to some degree.  I don't think 2nd order harmonic distortion hides glare.  I think there is something inherent in the old analog nature of tubes that, when implemented well with carefully selected components, is able to prevent it from happening.  Which is why I'm a tube guy even though I don't prefer a "tubey" sound.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Yes I will be starting the EL3N amp have the transformers now.
> Not sure when I will be finished maybe after I come back from Greece.
> Probably will be finished before I leave so I would say a couple of weeks.


 
  
 Enjoy your trip Glenn, and give our best regards to Stavros.  He doesn't come here anymore, but we still think about him.
  
 If you want me to ear test this EL3N I'm ready and waiting.    We'll see if it's reputation for sounding like a 45 is exaggeration or not.


----------



## lukeap69

A tube guy who doesn't prefer tubey sound; I like it.


----------



## vc1187

lukeap69 said:


> A tube guy who doesn't prefer tubey sound; I like it.




Tube liquidity, soundstage and warmth without being overly mushy, romantic, nasaly, and lush is one way of putting it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

lukeap69 said:


> A tube guy who doesn't prefer tubey sound; I like it.


 
  
 I love good tone color, which is how some people define tubey.  I think of bloat when I think tubey which is why the term is less positive in my mind. 
  
 I've come to think of tone balance and tone color in the same way one would think of color saturation and color gamut in display screens.  Hard to explain to folks who don't already understand what they both mean, but the relationship is almost exactly the same so it's a good analogy.


----------



## lukeap69

I think I understand what you are saying especially with the help of colour analogy (I am a photographer so I understand something about colour ).


----------



## lukeap69

Glenn 
  
 What is the advantage of using four-6AS7's compared to two-6AS7's? More current? In my listening session comparing quad vs two Chatham 6AS7's on my OTL amp, the quad provides more impact/slam on my PM-2. I have never really liked any power tubes combo on my Darna using my PM-2 except this one (quad 6AS7) which is very enjoyable IMO.


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> Glenn
> 
> What is the advantage of using four-6AS7's compared to two-6AS7's? More current? In my listening session comparing quad vs two Chatham 6AS7's on my OTL amp, the quad provides more impact/slam on my PM-2. I have never really liked any power tubes combo on my Darna using my PM-2 except this one (quad 6AS7) which is very enjoyable IMO.


 

 Four 6AS7s instead of two lowers the impedance supply's more current to the phones.
 You can also try two 6336B tubes to do the same thing.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I will be starting the EL3N amp have the transformers now.
> ...


 

 Tyrell I will tell Stavros you said Hi
  
 The amp will be after I come back from Greece I want to play with it for a little while before I ship it to you.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Well the bad luck train came around to my stop again.
  
 While in the middle of a listening session just now I heard a brief little "buzzzzz" then the music cut out.  I looked over at the amp and saw both current meters had dropped to zero and the plates on both rectifiers were glowing bright cherry red.  It wasn't a loud pop or anything, just a brief electrical buzz then nothing.  It was on and working normally for about 2 hours at this point.
  
 I'm not going to try turning back on or doing anything with it tonight.  I'll check tomorrow after work and see if the fuse is blown.
  
 Any thoughts on what could be going on Glenn?  Thanks.


----------



## lukeap69

Is your amp 300b like Tony's? It seems the problems reported lately are related to 300b amps only. Coincidence?


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> Is your amp 300b like Tony's? It seems the problems reported lately are related to 300b amps only. Coincidence?


 
  
 My issues were a mix of bad tubes and damage in transit, as best I can tell. The amp itself, after the repair, has been rock solid. Even the failed PY500 that took out my house circuit breaker and blew my DAC USB feed did not affect the amp.


----------



## lukeap69

tonynewman said:


> My issues were a mix of bad tubes and damage in transit, as best I can tell. The amp itself, after the repair, has been rock solid. Even the failed PY500 that took out my house circuit breaker and blew my DAC USB feed did not affect the amp.




Nice to know Tony. Cheers.


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> Nice to know Tony. Cheers.


 
  
 No drama. I don't want folks to think that the 300B amp is fragile. Mine has had a blown a 300B and a PY500 since the repair. Only damage to the amp has been a blown fuse (a good thing).
  
 If only my DAC had been as robust 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I do recommend swapping out the fuses, as per an earlier discussion, to provide some extra protection for the amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Well the bad luck train came around to my stop again.
> 
> While in the middle of a listening session just now I heard a brief little "buzzzzz" then the music cut out.  I looked over at the amp and saw both current meters had dropped to zero and the plates on both rectifiers were glowing bright cherry red.  It wasn't a loud pop or anything, just a brief electrical buzz then nothing.  It was on and working normally for about 2 hours at this point.
> 
> ...


 

 First I would change the rectifiers then see what happens.
 It was not a output tube if the meters were on 0.
 Could be also be a shorted filter capacitor but I doubt it use hi quality caps.
 Most likely bad rectifier I will make you those SS rectifiers as soon as the tube bases get here.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> First I would change the rectifiers then see what happens.
> It was not a output tube if the meters were on 0.
> Could be also be a shorted filter capacitor but I doubt it use hi quality caps.
> Most likely bad rectifier I will make you those SS rectifiers as soon as the tube bases get here.


 
  
 Okay, I'll put a different set of rectifiers in and assume these are bad.  Why would both of them get red hot at the same time though?  Something to do with how a full wave bridge works? 
  
 The power transformer felt a lot warmer than usual too when I put my hand to it.
  
 I checked the fuse and it was not blown if that info helps.


----------



## gibosi

I hope this will be an interesting respite from the problems some folks are having....
  
 Received a pair of Telefunken C3g today and I am quite sure that these were actually manufactured by Telefunken. Upon close inspection, they do not look like rebranded Siemens to my eyes. What initially caught my eye was the Telefunken date code, "wr" (September, 1966).
  
Telefunken tubes link
  
 I feel quite certain that as a general rule Telefunken did not put their date code on tubes procured elsewhere and relabeled. So my advice is look for this date code. If there is no date code, they are not most likely not genuine Telefunken.
  

  

  
 So in terms of construction differences, how do they compare to the Siemens? First, while the cans are not flat-black and embossed like 1960's Siemens and Lorenz, they are not as shiny as the 1970's Siemens.
  
 Compared to 1970's Siemens

  
 Compared to 1960's Siemens

  
 Since these tubes are enclosed in metal cans, the best and only place we can look for construction differences is the base. Note especially the area surrounding the base of the guide pin. The 1970's Siemens have a prominent escutcheon at the base, while the 1960's Siemens have no escutcheon. That area is almost perfectly flat with only a faint circle surrounding the guide pin. On the other hand, the 1960's Telefunkens have what looks like rays emanating out from the base of the guide pin.
  
 Further, upon close inspection, there are also noticeable differences at the outer edges of the base where the metal cans are attached to the base.
  
 1970's Siemens with prominent escutcheon

  
 1960's Siemens with only a faint circle surrounding the guide pin

  
 1960's Telefunken with emanating rays

  
 Hope this is interesting and useful to those who roll C3g.
  
 Cheers


----------



## lukeap69

How does the telefunken C3g sound vs the Siemens?


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> How does the telefunken C3g sound vs the Siemens?


 
  
 I have only about an hour on them, just enough to verify that they are not defective. And further, they need to be thoroughly burned in before coming to any conclusions regarding their sound. So after they have settled in and I have some time, I will try to compare them. Until then...


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> I have only about an hour on them, just enough to verify that they are not defective. And further, they need to be thoroughly burned in before coming to any conclusions regarding their sound. So after they have settled in and I have some time, I will try to compare them. Until then...


----------



## Khragon

Please let us know.  I got Lorenz and Siemens, but stayed away from Telefunken because they are supposedly the same.


----------



## gibosi

khragon said:


> Please let us know.  I got Lorenz and Siemens, but stayed away from Telefunken because they are supposedly the same.


 
  
 As best as I can tell, all the shiny black C3g with white paint were manufactured in the 1970's by Siemens, regardless of the label -- Telefunken, Valvo or Lorenz. But prior to that time, in 1950's and '60's, Telefunken, Siemens and Lorenz all manufactured this tube in their own factories.
  
 So. If a tube labeled as Telefunken is not as shiny as the '70's production and carries a Telefunken date code, it was manufactured by Telefunken. And while I cannot say at this time how it sounds, in my experience, tubes manufactured in different factories by different companies always sound different.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I hope this will be an interesting respite from the problems some folks are having....
> 
> Received a pair of Telefunken C3g today and I am quite sure that these were actually manufactured by Telefunken. Upon close inspection, they do not look like rebranded Siemens to my eyes. What initially caught my eye was the Telefunken date code, "wr" (September, 1966).
> 
> ...


 
 It sure is helpful   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





....thanks for the great pics...looking forward to your impressions.
  
 The C3g driver tubes make all of my power tubes sound good


----------



## Xcalibur255

Update:  amp appears to be operating normally with a different set of rectifers.  The ones that went cherry red were G's so I've put in another pair of G's to see if it happens again.  If it does then I'll just switch to using GA's permanently, which is a shame because I seem to have better luck finding tubes that aren't noisy with the G tubes.
  
 That pair of Sylvanias that went crazy last night were the very first pair of 6BY5 I've ever found that were QUIET.  So of course something else had to go wrong instead.  
  
 I really want to understand why that happened.  Why those tubes and not any of the others?  They're all the same and don't see how those particular tubes could draw more power and overheat themselves like that.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> Update:  amp appears to be operating normally with a different set of rectifers.  ...


 
  
 Glad your amp is working OK. A fried amp is no fun at all.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Update:  amp appears to be operating normally with a different set of rectifers.  The ones that went cherry red were G's so I've put in another pair of G's to see if it happens again.  If it does then I'll just switch to using GA's permanently, which is a shame because I seem to have better luck finding tubes that aren't noisy with the G tubes.
> 
> That pair of Sylvanias that went crazy last night were the very first pair of 6BY5 I've ever found that were QUIET.  So of course something else had to go wrong instead.
> 
> I really want to understand why that happened.  Why those tubes and not any of the others?  They're all the same and don't see how those particular tubes could draw more power and overheat themselves like that.


 

 I will make you SS rectifiers as soon as I get tube bases. No more noise.
 Due to the problems with rectifiers I am thinking of using SS in future amps. Plus easy to use them.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> ...
> Due to the problems with rectifiers I am thinking of using SS in future amps. ...


 
  
 100% support this move. I like the glow of the PY500s, but do they add much to the SQ of the amp? Having seen what can happen when they fail I would be only too pleased to be without them and have SS rectification.


----------



## 2359glenn

2359glenn said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > Update:  amp appears to be operating normally with a different set of rectifers.  The ones that went cherry red were G's so I've put in another pair of G's to see if it happens again.  If it does then I'll just switch to using GA's permanently, which is a shame because I seem to have better luck finding tubes that aren't noisy with the G tubes.
> ...


 

 Ether one of them became gassy and started to conduct AC or one of them got a cathode to plate short.


----------



## Xcalibur255

A question that come to mind about using SS diodes..........  Are they harder on the power tubes because they turn on instantly (no soft start)?
  
 I'm very curious to find out if they sound any different than a tube diode does.  I imagine the switching noise they generate isn't exactly the same.  As long as it doesn't sound hard/etched/glassy/glary it should be good.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> A question that come to mind about using SS diodes..........  Are they harder on the power tubes because they turn on instantly (no soft start)?
> 
> I'm very curious to find out if they sound any different than a tube diode does.  I imagine the switching noise they generate isn't exactly the same.  As long as it doesn't sound hard/etched/glassy/glary it should be good.


 

 They will give you a higher B+ voltage to your tubes. Might sound better.
 They are HEXFRED high speed soft recovery so they don't make much noise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> They will give you a higher B+ voltage to your tubes. Might sound better.
> They are HEXFRED high speed soft recovery so they don't make much noise.




I like the SS rectifier option. Very nice.


----------



## Khragon

Just received my Glenn 300B amp!  Wow, great build, pictures don't do it justice, this thing is solid!
  
 Upon listen, first thing I noticed is the expanded sound stage.  I'm not good at describing sound, but pairing with the Master 11 R2R DAC it sounded very good, very detail, yet non fatiguing.
  
 Will give more impression, but now onto the pics:
  
  
 The famous floatie tubes packaging, I got my toys and my kids got some too... just perfect:

  

  

  

  
  

  

  

  

  
 Now got to take the family out to dinner.. can't wait to get back and give this a proper listen.
  
 Thanks for a great amp Glenn!


----------



## JazzVinyl

How beautiful....!!!

Congrats!


----------



## Khragon

Here's a night shot


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Here's a night shot


 
  
 Nice.
  
 Are those ER300Bs the "new. improved" version? How do you like the sound signature?


----------



## Khragon

Yeah they're ER300B, I got them as RMA from my first pair back in January, so they are supposedly the new base/design.  I really like the smoothness of these back when I have the WA5, and now with Glenn 300B, comparing from memory about a year ago, I get alot more details and clarity compared to the WA5 while still getting that mid range smoothness.  I can hear this fairly easily while comparing to my M11 SS amp.  Still burning these in, so that's my preliminary observation.  I have WE300B reissue as well as SERP, so will be rolling them in over time to compare.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Yeah they're ER300B, I got them as RMA from my first pair back in January, so they are supposedly the new base/design.  I really like the smoothness of these back when I have the WA5, and now with Glenn 300B, comparing from memory about a year ago, I get alot more details and clarity compared to the WA5 while still getting that mid range smoothness.  I can hear this fairly easily while comparing to my M11 SS amp.  Still burning these in, so that's my preliminary observation.  I have WE300B reissue as well as SERP, so will be rolling them in over time to compare.


 

 Have you tried it hooked to your speakers yet?
 What headphones are you using?


----------



## whirlwind

khragon said:


> Here's a night shot


 
 Beautiful......Enjoy Khragon


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Have you tried it hooked to your speakers yet?
> What headphones are you using?



Haven't try speakers yet, that's on my to do list today.
I'm using HD800S and HEK, mostly HEK because it sounded so good I haven't have the urge to switch to HD800S.

Edit:
Listening to the speakers now. I have Tekton Lore, volume is at 10 o'clock and is just right, going to 12 would be too loud. Sounded pretty good.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Congrats Khragon.  Lots of great listening sessions ahead.


----------



## lukeap69

@Khragon

Did you bring home the Utopia to pair with your 300b? 

Congrats man. 

I and @whirlwind, in our little chat, agreed that even with cheap tubes our OTL amps (mine is called Darna - in case Tony had forgotten ) sound good. Better tubes elevate to even higher SQ. Glenn is an amp sorcerer!


----------



## Khragon

I like the Utopia, but not at $4000!  Elair I thought is simply no good.  I got a brief listen on Cavalli new TOTL prototype amp, Liquid Tungsten? from reading other impressions  that it got great sound staging, but I still find Glenn 300B to have better sound staging, I thought the LT is a darker in sound signature than Glenn 300B, not enough time to make full comparison, but I'm certain Glenn 300B is up there with the TOTL amps.


----------



## punit

khragon said:


> I got a brief listen on Cavalli new TOTL prototype amp, Liquid Tungsten?


 
 What tubes does the Tungsten use ?


----------



## Khragon

Geez, I didn't pay attention.  I don't know.  If I run into it again at a meet, I'll ask and report back.


----------



## Khragon

Got another listening session today and amazed at the dynamics (PRaT?), especially considering that this is a 300B tube amp.  I can hear changes in music much better, things such as violin moving back and forth quickly was more pronounced, thus giving impression of a larger more 3D sound stage. Music is more enjoyable. 
  
 I tried my 16 ohm 64 Audio U12 IEM and it just doesn't work well with the amp, I can clearly hear the background noise and way too micro-phonic to be enjoyable.  Wishful thinking I know .
  
 Another observation, the amp is back heavy and even with those hefty feet Glenn fitted it with, it still sink lower than the from, giving it the impression that it's ready to take off.  Maybe I can try to rotate the feet after a while.


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn, is it easy to switch voltage for the OTL amp? Mine is set at 230v but if the buyer wants to change it to 110v, would it be doable on your own or do I need to send the amp back to you? Thanks


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Glenn, is it easy to switch voltage for the OTL amp? Mine is set at 230v but if the buyer wants to change it to 110v, would it be doable on your own or do I need to send the amp back to you? Thanks


 

 Some of them it is easy. Do you have the old transformer?


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Some of them it is easy. Do you have the old transformer?


 

 Yes mine is the old transformer. Can you guide me how, please? thanks


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Got another listening session today and amazed at the dynamics (PRaT?), especially considering that this is a 300B tube amp.  I can hear changes in music much better, things such as violin moving back and forth quickly was more pronounced, thus giving impression of a larger more 3D sound stage. Music is more enjoyable.
> 
> I tried my 16 ohm 64 Audio U12 IEM and it just doesn't work well with the amp, I can clearly hear the background noise and way too micro-phonic to be enjoyable.  Wishful thinking I know .
> 
> Another observation, the amp is back heavy and even with those hefty feet Glenn fitted it with, it still sink lower than the from, giving it the impression that it's ready to take off.  Maybe I can try to rotate the feet after a while.


 

 Guess I should of used hard feet instead of the vibero pads that absorb vibrations.
 If you rotate the feet you have to remove the bottom. The bottom plate is threaded + I put nuts on the screws so it is essentially double nutted.
 This is so the screws won't come loose and they won't come out unless you remove the nuts first.


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Some of them it is easy. Do you have the old transformer?
> ...


 

 Take the bottom off there is a white connector by the rectifier tube socket. There are 4 wires from the transformer going to it. Black , Black&White ,  Blue , Blue&White.
 The center connection has the Black&White and blue connected together remove them and connect the blue with the Black and the Blue&White with the Black&White.
 Not so hard easy.
  
 Glenn


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Take the bottom off there is a white connector by the rectifier tube socket. There are 4 wires from the transformer going to it. Black , Black&White ,  Blue , Blue&White.
> The center connection has the Black&White and blue connected together remove them and connect the blue with the Black and the Blue&White with the Black&White.
> Not so hard easy.
> 
> Glenn


 

 Thanks so much, Glenn! Much appreciated


----------



## whirlwind

Happy Father's Day to everyone.
  
 Hope you all enjoy your day to the fullest.
  
 I am treating myself this Father's Day morning with this combo....I only listen to my GEC 6AS7G on special occasions, just because I only have one set.
  
 This is one of those occasions


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Guess I should of used hard feet instead of the vibero pads that absorb vibrations.
> If you rotate the feet you have to remove the bottom. The bottom plate is threaded + I put nuts on the screws so it is essentially double nutted.
> This is so the screws won't come loose and they won't come out unless you remove the nuts first.


 

 No worries Glenn, I am not bother by the uneveness at all.  I am glad you use these vibero pads actually.


----------



## 2359glenn

Khragon
 Have you determined what impedance does the HD-800s sound the best? I am building a amp for myself
 and am to lazy to wire that complected switch for me tried to see when I still had your amp but couldn't tell.
 I thought the 120 ohm setting might have sounded the best?
 I don't see me getting different phones allot of people don't like the HD800s But I feel they cant be beat.
 Sound stage and imaging is great with these phones and anybody that say they are to bright have the
 wrong amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Happy Father's Day to everyone.
> 
> Hope you all enjoy your day to the fullest.
> 
> ...


 

 What driver tube is that?


----------



## whirlwind

Hi Glenn.
  
 It is a Brimar 13D1
  
 I think you recommended this tube to me when you were building my amp.
  
 I have since bought another one after hearing it for some time.
  
 They have gone up a little in price since you recommended it to me.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Khragon
> Have you determined what impedance does the HD-800s sound the best? I am building a amp for myself
> and am to lazy to wire that complected switch for me tried to see when I still had your amp but couldn't tell.
> I thought the 120 ohm setting might have sounded the best?
> ...


 

 I just did a semi-serious switching back and forth and I can't tell any difference between 120 ohm and 40ohm, ignoring the volume difference, and this time with SERPs.  Maybe the 120 ohm is an atom smoother than 40ohm on female vocal, but that could me missing the volume matching level and lowered the 120 ohm too much. I think you're safe sticking to 40 ohm.  Got to say your switch is light year better than Woo's, I can't understand why they can't do it similar to yours, every time I switch the WA5 impedance, it pop so hard it ring my ears, very annoying.  Seems to be recurring theme on their other amps too, WA8 2-3 tubes switch pop just as bad.


----------



## 2359glenn

I will go with the lower impedance then in case I get different low impedance phones.
 When I was trying it with your amp I couldn't really tell other then being louder in the 120 ohm setting.
 Wiring up the transformers now.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Hi Glenn.
> 
> It is a Brimar 13D1
> 
> ...


 

 My original OTLs had a 25 volt winding on the transformer and only could use the 13D1 and 1633.
 Changed it to 6 volt because people complained. I could live with the 13D1 and the $3.00 ken-Rad 1633 what more is going to sound better with SN7s


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Take the bottom off there is a white connector by the rectifier tube socket. There are 4 wires from the transformer going to it. Black , Black&White ,  Blue , Blue&White.
> The center connection has the Black&White and blue connected together remove them and connect the blue with the Black and the Blue&White with the Black&White.
> Not so hard easy.
> 
> Glenn


 

 I did something similar with an Allnic HPA-3000 that originally came from Korea.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Glenn.
> ...


 
 I do not have any Ken Rad 1633 tubes....only RCA....I will look for some Ken Rads


----------



## Khragon

My wife and I sat down for some speakers time and she was amazed at the sound quality, we picked out the improvements right away when switched to Glenn 300B. The increase sound stage and dynamics is very apparent. Anyone with Glenn 300B and high efficiency speakers should try out the combination. Even at the default 40 ohm, my speakers sounded very good, in fact, I accidentally left the setting at 40 ohm on first trial. You got to make a cable that goes from XLR to speakers jacks.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> My wife and I sat down for some speakers time and she was amazed at the sound quality, we picked out the improvements right away when switched to Glenn 300B. The increase sound stage and dynamics is very apparent. Anyone with Glenn 300B and high efficiency speakers should try out the combination. Even at the default 40 ohm, my speakers sounded very good, in fact, I accidentally left the setting at 40 ohm on first trial. You got to make a cable that goes from XLR to speakers jacks.


 
 I haven't tried connecting the 32 ohm output to speakers. Yours is the only one that has 8 ohm output and 120 ohm.
 When I was listening to your amp it was mostly through speakers it was set on 8 ohm.
 It does go down to 7Hz if your source puts out anything that low. It does have great bass hooked to speakers as well as phones.


----------



## Khragon

Some photos with SERPs, enjoying these quite a bit, added a touch weighty sound signature, I felt they're actually more neutral sounding than I remembered them on WA5.


----------



## TonyNewman

Love the glow.


----------



## Khragon

Working on de-covering a pair of C3gs for even more glorious glow goodness.  I did it on a test one already and sanded into the pins.. got to be careful this time.


----------



## TonyNewman

I really like the RCA PY500s for the orange glow of sonic goodness at the base. Apologies for the shakey camera work.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> I really like the RCA PY500s for the orange glow of sonic goodness at the base. Apologies for the shakey camera work.


 

 Think you are better off with these anyway.
 Does look neat.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Think you are better off with these anyway.
> Does look neat.


 
  
 They are sweet looking tubes in a dark room. Very nice.


----------



## raybone0566

Since receiving my amp I've come really enjoy my time with the hd800's. My 650's had a driver fail & while I do miss them the 800's have kept me content. The amp has really brought out the bass which is really well textured. Only bested by my he-6


----------



## gibosi

Has anyone tried a vintage Chinese 5Z3PA rectifier? It can provide 250 ma of rectified current, so in that regard, a bit more than a standard 5U4G.
  
 https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/095/5/5Z3Pa.pdf
  
 This one was manufactured for the Chinese military in 1973, a year after President Nixon's trip to China. It is my understanding that at that time, vacuum tubes were still state-of-the-art in China, as in the USSR. I am pleased to report that it is working fine in my OTL.


----------



## JazzVinyl

raybone0566 said:


> Since receiving my amp I've come really enjoy my time with the hd800's. My 650's had a driver fail & while I do miss them the 800's have kept me content. The amp has really brought out the bass which is really well textured. Only bested by my he-6




Nice!

How long have you had your amp, raybone0566...?


----------



## raybone0566

jazzvinyl said:


> Nice!
> 
> How long have you had your amp, raybone0566...?


3-4 weeks.


----------



## gibosi

Managed to find some time to compare the Telefunken and Siemens C3g, both manufactured in the mid-1960s.
  

  
 Since the Lorenz and Siemens sound so very different, I was quite surprised to discover that the Siemens and Telefunken are very, very similar. To my ears, the treble on the Telefunkens is ever so slightly elevated. This elevated level was especially noticeable on female vocals, for example, Pebaluna's lead vocalist, Lauren Coleman, on the track, "No I Cant" (Carney Life). With the Telefunkens the upper registers of her voice have a bit more presence. But again, this is very subtle, and it is the only difference I can discern with my old and worn-out ears. 
  
 So I would suggest that for most folks, the Telefunkens are not worth the extra money. But I hope someone else will get a pair of these and post their impressions....  Different ears and different gear....
  
 Cheers


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yeah but "Telefunken" is so much more fun to say...

Good to know, g, thanks!


----------



## gibosi

My vintage military 1973 Shuguang 5Z3PA and a 1949 RCA 5U4G.
  

  
 After doing a bit more research, I realize that the construction of the 5Z3PA strongly resembles the USSR-made 5C3S also from the mid-1970s. However, this tube was not manufactured in the USSR. The etched logo, 曙光, or Shuguang (New Dawn) clearly indicates Chinese production.
  
 The RCA 5U4G appears to be identical to the one reviewed by Dubstep Girl, that is, flat-black plates, four umbrella spikes attached to the top mica spacer and a bottom getter.  Later versions have ribbed plates and a high-mounted side-getter, but I have no idea how they compare in terms of sound....
  
 Switching back and forth between these two rectifiers,what really struck me was the tone. To my ears, the Shuguang is better. And it was interesting to discover that a fellow named "Jeff", of 6Moons and Positive Feedback, noticed the same thing.
  
 http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=2544
  
 I still prefer the Cossor 53KU and the GEC U18/20, but this old Shuguang sounds pretty darn good to me.


----------



## gibosi

I've been busy this afternoon! I need a nap! lol


----------



## Xcalibur255

I have never heard a generic 5U4G tube whose sound I really liked to be honest, across several different amps.  Not really sure why they are so popular with people.
  
 The non-US made 5R4GY tubes, on the other hand, are great sleeper bargains in certain amps.


----------



## gibosi

I didn't really care for the RCA 5R4GY, but hope to try Brimar, Philips and maybe Fivre. On eBay they are getting to be fairly expensive, so I am biding my time until one pops up cheap.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> My vintage military 1973 Shuguang 5Z3PA and a 1949 RCA 5U4G.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The Russian 5C3S is also a good tube that I liked it gets bad reviews but I like it better then the 5U4.  The 5C3S is very similar the 5Z3PA maybe a copy of the Russian tube.
 I think The 5C3 gets bad reviews because of it's low cost a tube that costs $3 can't be good.


----------



## gibosi

And as cheap as they are, I should probably pick up a 5C3S to compare to the 5Z3PA.....


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> I didn't really care for the RCA 5R4GY, but hope to try Brimar, Philips and maybe Fivre. On eBay they are getting to be fairly expensive, so I am biding my time until one pops up cheap.


 
  
 The difference between the RCA and the Philips is large.  It's hard to believe they share the same tube number.


----------



## parbaked

It's been too long since there's been any pizza in the Studio...
 New seasonal pie at Pizza Hacker:


 Besos de Satan = Spicy!


----------



## Khragon

Popped in my pride and joy to get ready for a musical weekend.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Popped in my pride and joy to get ready for a musical weekend.


 

 WEs ??


----------



## Khragon

Yeah, WE300B reissue.
  

  
 Never seen them glow so beautifully before, on the WA5 it was there but minimal.  I searched the net and saw many photos of similar glow so I assumed it's OK.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Yeah, WE300B reissue.


 

 I foolishly sold mine after I got out of the hospital and was told I had 18 months to live.
 That was 5 years ago and kicking my self in the butt for selling them.


----------



## Khragon

No reason to kick yourself..  things work out very well I would say.
  
 Which one did you have Glenn? reissue or vintage?
  
 Here's what they used to look like on WA5, as you can see much less blue glow:


----------



## lukeap69

khragon said:


> Popped in my pride and joy to get ready for a musical weekend.


 
  
 Blue glow, WOWOWOWOW!!! Those are amaaaaazing!


----------



## whirlwind

khragon said:


> Popped in my pride and joy to get ready for a musical weekend.


 






    Just stunning, you are going to have a musical weekend , indeed.   Enjoy!


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> I foolishly sold mine after I got out of the hospital and was told I had 18 months to live.
> That was 5 years ago and kicking my self in the butt for selling them.


 
  
 There are those lucky few that have heard the Vintage WE300B and the TA300B and rate the TA300B at least as good, if not better. While still an expensive tube, the TA300B is pocket change compared to the cost of a vintage NOS WE300B.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> No reason to kick yourself..  things work out very well I would say.
> 
> Which one did you have Glenn? reissue or vintage?
> 
> Here's what they used to look like on WA5, as you can see much less blue glow:


 

 I had the the reissue but they sounded so good.
 I think I run them at a higher plate voltage then Woo so more blue glow.
 425 volts on the plate.


----------



## 2359glenn

What is the sound difference between the WE and Elrog? Is the Elrog as good?


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> What is the sound difference between the WE and Elrog? Is the Elrog as good?


 
  
 Never heard an Elrog, or a WE for that matter. iSquirrel might be able to comment as he has the opportunity to hear them all (WE vintage / WE reissue / Takatsuki / Elrog).
  
 Best I can recall, his comments regarding the Elrog would be more around "different" than "better" compared to WE ... etc. The thoriated tungsten has a sound all its own. I would like to get a set, but past reliability concerns put me off, for now. The Taks and WEs are similar - with Taks have better extension in the bass and treble while the WEs _*might *_have a slightly better mid range. Overall the TA300B is probably the better tube. Note that this is the "old" version of the TA300B. Takatsuki have improved the TA300B at the start of this year. I hope to receive my set of those soon.
  
 Keep in mind this is me trying to recall iSquirrel's comments. A search in the Woo thread would probably find most of the original feedback.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> What is the sound difference between the WE and Elrog? Is the Elrog as good?


 

 I thought the WE has better mid-range, vocal sounded so nice and smooth, but I didn't switch directly from Elrog to WE, I went to SERP instead, compared to SERP definitely an overall smoother signature, one that I enjoy a lot.  SERP works well with my Meze 99 classics since that headphones the bass is on the loose side already, tighter bass on the SERP helped a lot.  Also SERP is so much quieter compared to WE for these sensitive cans.  I can't hear any noise with HEK on either SERP or WE300B, but on the Meze 99 I can hear noise with WE300B.  I plan to switch from WE300B to Elrog, will report my finding then.


----------



## 2359glenn

After listening to your Elrog's I am thinking about buying a pair.
  
 Tony reliability is really only a issue in amps that don't have regulated 5 volts. The thorated tungsten filament is very sensitive to the right voltage


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> After listening to your Elrog's I am thinking about buying a pair.
> 
> Tony reliability is really only a issue in amps that don't have regulated 5 volts. The thorated tungsten filament is very sensitive to the right voltage


 
  
 Understood. A number of users have experienced tube failure due to loss of vacuum due to defective bases - nothing to do with voltage regulation.
  
 I understand that Elrog have replaced the base with a new model - I am waiting to see how that works out.


----------



## Khragon

Finally worked up the courage to remove the cover off of a pair of C3g.
  
 Covering these up should really be a crime, they're so beautiful.
  
 Pratically crap myself turning the amp on for for the first time, I triple checked the pin placement, but man... that was a heart stopping moment.
  
 All is good now.  Night shot later when night comes.


----------



## lukeap69

khragon said:


> Finally worked up the courage to remove the cover off of a pair of C3g.
> 
> Covering these up should really be a crime, they're so beautiful.
> 
> ...




Wow. I didn't know that you can do that with C3g. Will be waitinf for the night shot.


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> Wow. I didn't know that you can do that with C3g. Will be waitinf for the night shot.


 
  
 Personally, I prefer that my C3g remain fully clothed. 
  
 But if this is something you really want to do, over in the Little Dot rolling thread, Hypnos1 posted a quick little show and tell with pictures on how to remove the cans:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/5670#post_10412030


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> Personally, I prefer that my C3g remain fully clothed.
> 
> But if this is something you really want to do, over in the Little Dot rolling thread, Hypnos1 posted a quick little show and tell with pictures on how to remove the cans:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/5670#post_10412030




Argh, I don't have the courage to do that. 

Thanks for the link.


----------



## Khragon

Arg... they hum, bad! Even HE1000 I could hear the hum.  Not sure if it's because of the tube or because I remove the cover, but look like I'll be using clothed one from here on.


----------



## lukeap69

khragon said:


> Arg... they hum, bad! Even HE1000 I could hear the hum.  Not sure if it's because of the tube or because I remove the cover, but look like I'll be using clothed one from here on.




That's not nice to hear. I always thought naked is better.


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> That's not nice to hear. I always thought naked is better.


 
  
 I have stripped several C3Gs. I have never noticed a difference in the sound of the stripped and non-stripped tubes.


----------



## Khragon

That's good to hear, could be bad tube.  I didn't strip the one I was using, but a different pair.
 I may strip another set just to see.
  
 Will try tomorrow, now onto the night shot


----------



## Khragon

Okay, I did what any good engineer should know not do, I changed too many variables at the same time to fix a problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I put in the SERP and change the the right tube to another naked one (I stripped 3) and noise went away.  I have the Meze 99 on and only hear a slight hum on the left channel, similar hum as with the regular C3g, so good news, probaly not the C3g that's making the noise, but the WE300B instead, since I only change one of the 2 C3gs, the left one is the same.  These newer production tubes are so quite, so that another reason to go for them.


----------



## whirlwind

I found a great deal on a pair of 5998 tubes last week , here on the forums.
  
 Yesterday I tried 2 5998 tubes per channel in my amp.
  

  
 While listening with my HD800 I really do not think it is worth it , as the small gain that you may get is not worth burning two extra 5998.
  
 While listening with my Grado RS1, I believe you get more bang for your buck, since the impedance is lower on those cans....that being said I still do not believe it is worth it to burn the extra pair of 5998 tubes, since the 6336 tubes seem to work great for the Grado cans.
  
 IMO, I will get more bang for my dollar by just using one 5998 per channel and having a third set will allow me to use them more often.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> I found a great deal on a pair of 5998 tubes last week , here on the forums.
> 
> Yesterday I tried 2 5998 tubes per channel in my amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for testing that Joe. When I've tried four-Chatham 6AS7's, it didn't do much on my HD800 SD but it worked beautifully on my PM-2 compared to two-6AS7's.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Okay, I did what any good engineer should know not do, I changed too many variables at the same time to fix a problem
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Are any of the tubes microphonic? shouldn't be any hum at all the 300Bs have regulated 5 volts. And the C3gs are also run on DC voltage that is a change I
 made to make the amp quieter.
 A microphonic tube can pick up the 50 or 60 Hz vibration from the power transformer with very sensitive phones.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Are any of the tubes microphonic? shouldn't be any hum at all the 300Bs have regulated 5 volts. And the C3gs are also run on DC voltage that is a change I
> made to make the amp quieter.
> A microphonic tube can pick up the 50 or 60 Hz vibration from the power transformer with very sensitive phones.


 

 That could be, by microphonic you mean I can hear the tube sound when I turn the volume? then yes, with meze 99 which is 103db efficiency I can hear those sound, it ring and died down quickly.  I tried a number of C3g and 300B already and they all exhibit this.  With the HE1000 which is 90dB efficiency I don't hear anything, same goes for HD800S. 
  
 Another discovery, I plug the meze into my Master 11 DAC/Amp in the single ended output and if listen very carefully I can hear similar hum like I heard in the 300B on the left channel, so I think actually the hum is coming from the DAC.  To make it more obvious I use my U12 IEM and it's there on the DAC.  If I switch to balanced out on the Master 11, then complete silence.  Should I connect M11 balanced to Glenn 300B SE inputs?  I did something similar with Schiit Gungnir DAC since the Gungnir SE outputs are one of the worse, noisy as heck, once I switched to XLR -> RCA cable, I get noise free sound.  Can I connect the M11 XLR balanced output to Glenn 300B SE inputs? Any harm in do that?


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Are any of the tubes microphonic? shouldn't be any hum at all the 300Bs have regulated 5 volts. And the C3gs are also run on DC voltage that is a change I
> ...


 

 You have XLR to RCA cables and tried them with another amp??  Try it nothing will get heart worst thing it won't work.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> You have XLR to RCA cables and tried them with another amp??  Try it nothing will get heart worst thing it won't work.


 

 I have, and just tried it, besides higher input volume, hum is reduced, but it's still there.  Music sounds pretty good, but didn't listen very long.  Can't have both RCA and XLR connected at the same time, the DAC with cut in and out, works fine with just XLR connected, so I'm going back to RCA since I don't want to break anything.  Not going to worry about this hum, it practically non existence with the meze 99, and doesn't exist with my full size headphones.  Funny thing is even with the hum, I prefer my U12 with Glenn 300B instead of the M11 built-in amp 
  
 Got even braver today (and getting better at doing this), I removed the cover from 2 more C3g pairs, the Valvo C3g have different construction slightly to Siemens, with only one top mica compared to Siemens two.  Can't tell if they sounded any different. Also did ITT Lorenz, and their construction is the same as Valvo.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Are any of the tubes microphonic? shouldn't be any hum at all the 300Bs have regulated 5 volts. *And the C3gs are also run on DC voltage that is a change I*
> *made to make the amp quieter.*
> A microphonic tube can pick up the 50 or 60 Hz vibration from the power transformer with very sensitive phones.


 
  
 Glenn I'm curious, being that the C3g is indirectly heated, were you able to measure a change, perceive a change (hear it), or were you just going the extra mile to be safe with the DC?


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Are any of the tubes microphonic? shouldn't be any hum at all the 300Bs have regulated 5 volts. *And the C3gs are also run on DC voltage that is a change I*
> ...


 

 I am going the extra mile to make sure the amp is perfect the first ones of this amp I ran the C3g filament on AC
 but changed that. Running them on DC insures no hum what so ever. If I am selling a amp for $4K it has to be
 perfect no hum what so ever.
 This amp can go up against any amp out there for SQ even the so called TOTAL amps.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> I am going the extra mile to make sure the amp is perfect the first ones of this amp I ran the C3g filament on AC
> but changed that. Running them on DC insures no hum what so ever. If I am selling a amp for $4K it has to be
> perfect no hum what so ever.
> This amp can go up against any amp out there for SQ even the so called TOTAL amps.


 
  
 Glenn, does Selah run the c3g filament on AC?


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I am going the extra mile to make sure the amp is perfect the first ones of this amp I ran the C3g filament on AC
> ...


 

 Yes that was the first one the C3g filaments run on 6.3 volt AC.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> I am going the extra mile to make sure the amp is perfect the first ones of this amp I ran the C3g filament on AC
> but changed that. Running them on DC insures no hum what so ever. If I am selling a amp for $4K it has to be
> perfect no hum what so ever.
> *This amp can go up against any amp out there for SQ even the so called TOTAL amps. *


 
*No doubt!*
  
 Yes, DC is the safer bet.  But just so your previous C3g amp owners won't worry, the C3g/ C3m/ C3o tubes are designed to provide the same ultra high performance standards whether AC or DC filament driven.  That's why I was wondering if you had noticed any differences.
  
 Thanks, I may be building my own C3m/ 300B amp in the future, but we'll see!


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I am going the extra mile to make sure the amp is perfect the first ones of this amp I ran the C3g filament on AC
> ...


 

 Best to keep the AC away from the input circuit.


----------



## TonyNewman

HI Glenn - just curious - do you recall if my C3g heating is AC/DC? I don't have a hum problem, but I am interested to know.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> Yes that was the first one the C3g filaments run on 6.3 volt AC.




Maybe that is the cause of the hum in the right channel.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Best to keep the AC away from the input circuit.


 

 Yes I agree!  That's why a dual mono-block design running nothing but DC from separate PS's would be even better, but you have to draw a line somewhere ; _OR DO YOU??_


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Best to keep the AC away from the input circuit.
> ...


 

 Cost draws the line this will add at least $2K


----------



## leftside

Some people might be interested...


2359glenn said:


> Cost draws the line this will add at least $2K


 
 Some people might be interested....


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> I am going the extra mile to make sure the amp is perfect the first ones of this amp I ran the C3g filament on AC
> but changed that. Running them on DC insures no hum what so ever. If I am selling a amp for $4K it has to be
> perfect no hum what so ever.
> This amp can go up against any amp out there for SQ even the so called TOTAL amps.




Glenn, will you be willing to build another one of your 300b amps? Any indication of the lead time?


----------



## musicman59

rossliew said:


> Glenn, will you be willing to build another one of your 300b amps? Any indication of the lead time?


 
 Get on line.... I am waiting for mine...


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> HI Glenn - just curious - do you recall if my C3g heating is AC/DC? I don't have a hum problem, but I am interested to know.


 

 Tony did you try sensitive headphones?  I only have hum with my sensitive headphones, very obvious with the U12, but that one is an IEM and is 16 ohm with 115 dB sensitivity.  I can only hear hum with the Meze when I concentrate to look for it.  HD800S and HEK, no hum at all.  I'm am fairly convinced that this due to tube picking up the vibration from the power transformer like Glenn mentioned before.


----------



## TonyNewman

I have only had the hum with a C3g that went bad after my power surge - replaced it and all is well with HE6 / HD800S / Ether C. I wouldn't label any of those as particularly sensitive headphones - the Ether C probably the most sensitive of the bunch and it is clean as a whistle.


----------



## Khragon

My worse hum actually came from the WE300B, the newer tubes, SERP and Elrog 300B is very quite.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> HI Glenn - just curious - do you recall if my C3g heating is AC/DC? I don't have a hum problem, but I am interested to know.


 

 Yours is running on 6.3 volts DC


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes that was the first one the C3g filaments run on 6.3 volt AC.
> ...


 

 Could be.
 Yours can be upgraded to DC on the C3gs.


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I am going the extra mile to make sure the amp is perfect the first ones of this amp I ran the C3g filament on AC
> ...


 

 I have a couple of OTLs and a couple of 300Bs first.


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Steve,
  
 Looks so good.................
  
 Short Bridge like the 6SN7's with the Light Bridge?
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


parbaked said:


> It's been too long since there's been any pizza in the Studio...
> New seasonal pie at Pizza Hacker:
> 
> 
> Besos de Satan = Spicy!


----------



## dminches

Stavros!


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


>


 

 Hi Stavros
 So great to hear from you.
 You made my day...I will celebrate with cheese pie and cookies!!


----------



## rosgr63

parbaked said:


> Hi Stavros
> So great to hear from you.
> You made my day...I will celebrate with cheese pie and cookies!!


 

 Steven you made my day very happy too.
  
 I'm expecting some photos of those nice cheese pies and cookies!!!!!!


----------



## Rossliew

Just double checking - can one use the 53KU rectifier in the Glenn OTL without the need for an adapter?


----------



## rosgr63

dminches said:


> Stavros!


 

 Hi David,
  
 Good to hear from you my dear friend.


----------



## Skylab

It's great to see you posting here, Stavros. I hope you are well


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> parbaked said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Stavros
> ...


 

 Stavros
 I have to take food pictures while I am there and post them here.


----------



## Oskari

Stavros,

I am super happy to see you here, just like everybody else is!


----------



## rosgr63

skylab said:


> It's great to see you posting here, Stavros. I hope you are well


 
  
 Nice to be back Rob


oskari said:


> Stavros,
> 
> I am super happy to see you here, just like everybody else is!


 
  
 Thank you my dear friend


2359glenn said:


> Stavros
> I have to take food pictures while I am there and post them here.


 
  
 No Glenn, the quality of the thread is gonna drop now I'm posting again.............food, cookies, sweets, tubes all in one breath.
 Not long to go now!!!!


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Just double checking - can one use the 53KU rectifier in the Glenn OTL without the need for an adapter?


 
  
 Yes.


----------



## gibosi

Stavros... Indeed, welcome back!


----------



## rosgr63

gibosi said:


> Stavros... Indeed, welcome back!


 

 Thanks Ken, nice to see all my friends again.
  
 From the 5U4G family of tubes only the WE422A will benefit from an adapter, but can also run as is.


----------



## 2359glenn

Stavros
  
 Lucy says what are you doing on here get your ass to bed


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> Yes.




Thanks for the confirmation, Ken




rosgr63 said:


> Thanks Ken, nice to see all my friends again.
> 
> From the 5U4G family of tubes only the WE422A will benefit from an adapter, but can also run as is.




I'm new here on this thread but I'll join in the chorus of welcoming you back too


----------



## whirlwind

Welcome back Stavros


----------



## TonyNewman

I have been running in a fresh set of CNE 300Bs, mentioned in an earlier post. These are TJ tubes - same manufacturer as the SERPs.
  
 I had a good experience with the SERPs, so ordered a pair of the new CNEs. One tube went "runaway" - fortunately the channel fuse blew before anything bad happened to the amp. I had a good service experience on the warranty replacement - no fuss - 2 or 3 weeks and I have a replacement tube. All good.
  
 Now the other original tube is shorting and blowing the fuse on the other channel. Replaced twice. I have yanked the CNEs and have put the EATs back in to make sure that it is the tube at fault and not the amp (I am 99.99% sure it is the tube, but want to test anyway).
  
 These tubes have had less than 100 hours on them and I have had a 100% failure rate - both original tubes have failed.
  
 Do I go through the warranty process again? Do I really want to put more of these tubes in my amp, given the history above? My gut reaction is to write these tubes off as a bad purchasing decision and move on. I would rather that than risk damaging my amp (again).
  
 Good news is that the slow blow 250mA channel fuses are working as they should - I have blown about 4 of them over the past few weeks with these CNE tubes and no damage to the amp at all. That's a very good thing. I can only suggest to other 300B amp owners that they check their fuses and make sure they have something around 250mA on the channels - 400mA is way too high - your amp will cook before the fuse blows.
  
 EDIT - EATs are running fine for the past hour. It's not the amp, as expected, it's the CNE tubes. QA is a wonderful thing


----------



## Khragon

Tony

Sorry to hear that you have so much problem with these newer tube. The only Chinese made tube I have confidence in is SERPs, they have never fail me, and they sounded good, unique in a good way. They are also so much quiter than my WE300B. Actually from listening these last couple days, I say the Elrog got all of that WE300B lushness with an very open sound staging. I really recommend you to look into them. I am saving up some pennies to get the TAK.


----------



## TonyNewman

Thanks - sometimes audio purchases go bad - it happens. Not the worst audio mistake I have ever made, that's for sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Always had an interest in the Elrogs, I just hope that the new and improved bases have fixed the leakage issue. Lots of reports floating around from users who lost vacuum on their tubes and then faced an uphill battle to get warranty coverage - not a happy story. That makes it hard for me to cough up big bucks for tubes with questionable reliability when the Taks are rock solid and I know how good they sound.
  
 I am becoming very risk adverse with 300Bs after some bad experiences, and it's not like 300Bs are inexpensive - the CNEs are close to a grand USD. Hurts a little to bin them.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Stavros
> 
> Lucy says what are you doing on here get your ass to bed




I am bad again but it's Steven's fault he started it!!!!!



rossliew said:


> Thanks for the confirmation, Ken
> I'm new here on this thread but I'll join in the chorus of welcoming you back too




Thank you, nice to see old and make new friends



whirlwind said:


> Welcome back Stavros




Thank You!!!


----------



## rosgr63

I wonder am I the only one using AVVT's?


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> I wonder am I the only one using AVVT's?


 
 George  uses AVVT's in his 300B amp.


----------



## musicman59

rosgr63 said:


> I wonder am I the only one using AVVT's?



I am using them in my WA5-LE and really like them plus since my amp is the Mk I model I welcome the extra power.
I asked Gelnn if I can use them in his 300B amp once I get it. He said I can but make sure they are bias properly for not to overrun the amp and start loosing some bass.


----------



## TonyNewman

Since my CNE 300B tubes have proven less reliable than Ted Bundy in a Sorority House, I have been dreaming up some novel ideas on disposal...
  
*In-sink-eration*

  
  
  
*The Blend*

  
  
*Steamed*

  
  
*A fry-up*

  
  
*Toasty warm*

  
  
*Roasting*

  
  
*The Grind*


----------



## Khragon

We all know what the question needs to be:

Will it blend?


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> George  uses AVVT's in his 300B amp.





Yes I almost forgot!



musicman59 said:


> I am using them in my WA5-LE and really like them plus since my amp is the Mk I model I welcome the extra power.
> I asked Gelnn if I can use them in his 300B amp once I get it. He said I can but make sure they are bias properly for not to overrun the amp and start loosing some bass.




Maybe lowering the heater to 4.9V would help to.
How do they compare to your other 300B's?
Have you tried the 32B's?


----------



## rosgr63

Nice Tony!
So you are our resident Maste Tube Chef?


----------



## TonyNewman

rosgr63 said:


> Nice Tony!
> So you are our resident Maste Tube Chef?


 
  
 For all the use the CNE tubes have turned out to be I might as well eat them


----------



## 2359glenn

Due to the use of crappy tubes all future 300B amps will be auto bias at a slight degrade in SQ.
 This will help stop thermal runaway as the current goes up the negative grid bias will go up to try to get this under control.
  Tubes like EML , TAK , Elrog even cheep $200 a pair JJ and Electro-Harmonix will not do this.
 I had a pair of Sophia 300Bs that had hot spots on the plate due to bad grid alignment only had them on for 10 minuets.
  
 I see that nobody will give up on Shug tubes
  
 Would rather use a $200 a pair tubes then risk the amp.
 Due these tubes really sound that good that it is worth screwing up a amp with?


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> I'm liking the GE 6BX7 very much. Last night I rolled in a pair of flat-black embossed Siemens C3G and the music was great.


 
  
 I have received my pair of RCA 6BX7GT and am listening at the moment. I can immediately tell that I like these better than 6BL7's. I will be hunting another pair to complete the sixtuplet! Thanks for recommending (I think @Xcalibur255 recommended these as well.)


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Due to the use of crappy tubes all future 300B amps will be auto bias at a slight degrade in SQ.
> This will help stop thermal runaway as the current goes up the negative grid bias will go up to try to get this under control.
> Tubes like EML , TAK , Elrog even cheep $200 a pair JJ and Electro-Harmonix will not do this.
> I had a pair of Sophia 300Bs that had hot spots on the plate due to bad grid alignment only had them on for 10 minuets.
> ...




Would this be a MF design?

Better not say anything yet..........


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Due to the use of crappy tubes all future 300B amps will be auto bias at a slight degrade in SQ.
> ...


 

 No this will be the new 300B amp
 No need for meters bias pots just stick in the tubes and the cathode current is what it is around 70 ma
 unless there is a week tube.


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> I have received my pair of RCA 6BX7GT and am listening at the moment. I can immediately tell that I like these better than 6BL7's. I will be hunting another pair to complete the sixtuplet! Thanks for recommending (I think @Xcalibur255 recommended these as well.)


 
  
 Did you get the RCAs with top getters and sandblasted tube-type and dots? Or did you get them with side getters?


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> No this will be the new 300B amp
> No need for meters bias pots just stick in the tubes and the cathode current is what it is around 70 ma
> unless there is a week tube.


 

 Definitely a MF design then...........


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Due to the use of crappy tubes all future 300B amps will be auto bias at a slight degrade in SQ.
> This will help stop thermal runaway as the current goes up the negative grid bias will go up to try to get this under control.
> Tubes like EML , TAK , Elrog even cheep $200 a pair JJ and Electro-Harmonix will not do this.
> I had a pair of Sophia 300Bs that had hot spots on the plate due to bad grid alignment only had them on for 10 minuets.
> ...


 
  
 My 2 cents - with a fuse setting of around 250mA for each channel this perhaps isn't necessary. I have had 4 blown fuses in the past month with these freaken CNE tubes - in every case the amp was protected by the fuse. The one time a tube failure cooked my amp the fuse rating was 400mA - that is way too high.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Due to the use of crappy tubes all future 300B amps will be auto bias at a slight degrade in SQ.
> ...


 

 You can go lower then that Khragon's amp I put in 200ma
 Why use crappy tubes in the first place ???  The SERP is made at the same factory.


----------



## musicman59

rosgr63 said:


> Yes I almost forgot!
> Maybe lowering the heater to 4.9V would help to.
> How do they compare to your other 300B's?
> Have you tried the 32B's?



Actually the SL-32B are the ones I have. I like their sound. I would say they are in sound between the EML Mesh and the EAT. They drive nicely all my headphones. Those are the ones I would like to use in my Glenn amp when I get it and before I can get the TAKs.


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> Did you get the RCAs with top getters and sandblasted tube-type and dots? Or did you get them with side getters?



 


Here is a pic of my 6BX7's.


----------



## Xcalibur255

My disposal suggestion for Tony:   hydraulic press.  
  
 As for 6BX7, I think this tube is a diamond in the rough.  Not talked about much, cheap and fairly plentiful, matches or beats even the very best 6SN7 tubes when performing the same function.  Seems to be a cut above the very similar 6BL7 for some reason in every application I've compared them in. 
  
 I would love to see it show up in more amps.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> You can go lower then that Khragon's amp I put in 200ma
> Why use crappy tubes in the first place ???  The SERP is made at the same factory.


 
  
 I have the 200mA fuses - will be giving them a try soon, but it might be overkill. 250mA has done the job nicely. Will see if I get bogus fuse failures @ 200mA.
  
 The SERPs I had previously (now sold) were rock solid. Nice sounding tubes and very robust. That's why I took a chance on the CNEs - these are an improved version of the SERP. I was hoping for the same robustness as the SERPs with better treble extension and perhaps not quite so dark sounding. SQ was spot on - really a great sounding tube - but the reliability has proven to be anything but SERP-like.
  
 Turns out that the amount of testing and QA that is done for the SERPs by Sophia Electric is way beyond what TJ do at the factory in China. There are a number of articles available that detail this via Google. So that is what you pay for with the $1,200 USD price tag for the SERPs. However, at that price level it is not that big a leap to the Takatsukis - a tube that is, if anything, more robust and significantly better sounding than the SERP (IMHO).
  
 The reason I even took a chance on the CNEs is the long wait time for the Taks at the moment (I am still waiting - hope they ship this month). I thought about a pair of plate EMLs, but I already have the EATs, which are very similar. EML 300B mesh would have been a better choice. Anyway, sometimes in the tube world you take a chance and it pays off, and sometimes you end up with excrement encased in glass.
  
 I am now cured of taking chances on 300Bs.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> My disposal suggestion for Tony:   hydraulic press.


 
  
 I think I might keep them handy as a nice reminder to myself to not take wild chances with 300B purchases (or audio purchases in general). Been burned a number of times for rushed or hasty buying decisions. Stupid of me, really.
  
 Also might have some more fun with other disposal methods and pictures to share on the thread. Have to keep a sense of humour about this


----------



## gibosi

> Here is a pic of my 6BX7's.


 
  
 Unfortunately, I can't see construction details...
  
 If they have top getters, they were manufactured by Sylvania or GE. If they have the tube-type and dots sandblasted on the side of the bottle, they are definitely GE. All the RCA 6BX7 I have seen have side getters and orange paint. So I suspect that your "RCA" tubes were not manufactured by RCA. To the best of my knowledge, RCA did not manufacture this tube until around 1960. During the 1950's, all RCA 6BX7 were sourced from other manufacturers and relabeled.


----------



## TonyNewman

*Saw:*

  
  
*Squeeze:*


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, I can't see construction details...
> 
> If they have top getters, they were manufactured by Sylvania or GE. If they have the tube-type and dots sandblasted on the side of the bottle, they are definitely GE. All the RCA 6BX7 I have seen have side getters and orange paint. So I suspect that your "RCA" tubes were not manufactured by RCA. To the best of my knowledge, RCA did not manufacture this tube until around 1960. During the 1950's, all RCA 6BX7 were sourced from other manufacturers and relabeled.




They have the sandblasted dots on the side which looks cute.


----------



## TonyNewman

*Nuked:*


----------



## Khragon

Still enjoying my Glenn 300B..really enjoy the 3D imaging and great dynamics.. it's amazing, my M11 now sounded so flat... and I thought it has already great at these qualities.  Now I'm really curious at the Violectric V281, Tony you mentioned it's very close to the Glenn 300B?  I need a quite amp to drive my IEM, I enjoy listening to them too, especially at night so not to bother everyone else.


----------



## TonyNewman

I haven't tried the V281 with IEMs, so can't really comment on that.
  
 On the V281 vs Glenn, with the right tubes the Glenn wins for pure musical enjoyment for me, but the V281 is right up there. Interesting thing is how close the Glenn amp is in terms of the things you would expect a high end SS amp to dominate - speed, bass extension, dynamics, detail - that sort of thing. Sure the V281 wins, but not by much. Put the right tubes in the Glenn amp and it really is quite magical.


----------



## Khragon

Well, as luck would have it, there's a V281 for sale in the classified, and it's coming to me.  Looking forward to it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Off to Greece


----------



## 2359glenn

Off to Greece


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> Off to Greece


 
  
  
 Bon voyage!


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, I can't see construction details...
> 
> If they have top getters, they were manufactured by Sylvania or GE. If they have the tube-type and dots sandblasted on the side of the bottle, they are definitely GE. All the RCA 6BX7 I have seen have side getters and orange paint. So I suspect that your "RCA" tubes were not manufactured by RCA. To the best of my knowledge, RCA did not manufacture this tube until around 1960. During the 1950's, all RCA 6BX7 were sourced from other manufacturers and relabeled.


 
 Just ordered 2 pairs of 6BX7's from Langrex, 1 pair Sylvania and 1 pair Pinnacle (Sylvania?). Hope these sound the same as the RCA as I like what the RCA 6BX7 a lot.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Off to Greece


 
 Enjoy Glenn, and don't eat too much.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Off to Greece
> ...


 

 Thankyou
 I will be eating about 1 hr after getting off the plane. It will still be 4:00am here.
  
 Have a great 4th of July


----------



## rosgr63

Bon Voyage Glenn, see you soon!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

tonynewman said:


> I think I might keep them handy as a nice reminder to myself to not take wild chances with 300B purchases* (or audio purchases in general). Been burned a number of times for rushed or hasty buying decisions. Stupid of me, really.*
> 
> Also might have some more fun with other disposal methods and pictures to share on the thread. Have to keep a sense of humour about this


 
  
  
 You are not alone Tony, welcome to the club!


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> Just ordered 2 pairs of 6BX7's from Langrex, 1 pair Sylvania and 1 pair Pinnacle (Sylvania?). Hope these sound the same as the RCA as I like what the RCA 6BX7 a lot.


 
  
 Well, to my ears, Sylvania 6BX7 have a different sound than the GEs. And there is no telling who manufactured the Pinnacle. And you have a pair of GE (labeled RCA). If you want tubes that sound the same as your GE/RCA, then look for the sandblasted dots.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Off to Greece


 
  
 Have a safe and wonderful trip! And I am HUGELY envious!


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> Well, to my ears, Sylvania 6BX7 have a different sound than the GEs. And there is no telling who manufactured the Pinnacle. And you have a pair of GE (labeled RCA). If you want tubes that sound the same as your GE/RCA, then look for the sandblasted dots.




I will probably be getting a pair or 2 of RCA's. What difference have you noticed between these and the Sylvania's?


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> I will probably be getting a pair or 2 of RCA's. What difference have you noticed between these and the Sylvania's?


 
  
 I have Sylvania and GE 6BX7. I find the Sylvania to have more treble presence than the GE, and personally, I prefer the GE. I have yet to try the RCA. That is, "real" RCA, with clear tops and side getters, so can't say how they sound....


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Off to Greece


 

 safe travel, enjoy your meanderings


----------



## Xcalibur255

lukeap69 said:


> Just ordered 2 pairs of 6BX7's from Langrex, 1 pair Sylvania and 1 pair Pinnacle (Sylvania?). Hope these sound the same as the RCA as I like what the RCA 6BX7 a lot.


 
  
 The vast majority of these tubes were made by Sylvania.  Most re-brands will be from them.  The primary exception is if you find ones that have the distinctive white dot pattern on the glass that identifies GE tubes.  Tubes that GE bought from other companies did not get this marking, only tubes actually made by them did.
  
 I have only heard the Sylvania and I really, really like the way they sound.  The perfect balance between treble presence and smoothness.


----------



## lukeap69

xcalibur255 said:


> The vast majority of these tubes were made by Sylvania.  Most re-brands will be from them.  The primary exception is if you find ones that have the distinctive white dot pattern on the glass that identifies GE tubes.  Tubes that GE bought from other companies did not get this marking, only tubes actually made by them did.
> 
> I have only heard the Sylvania and I really, really like the way they sound.  The perfect balance between treble presence and smoothness.




This makes more interested in the Sylvania's I have bought. The RCA's I already have have the dots so they may have been made by GE and I really like them. I am afraid my 2-sixtuplets 6BL7 may gather dust if the Sylvania 6BX7's prove to be as good as (if not better than) the RCA. Thanks for the info X.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Well, I'm trying yet another new pair of rectifiers in my neverending quest to find ones that don't buzz.  Right off the bat there is hum in the left channel.  I'm hoping this goes away with some run time.
  
 I have to admit I'm getting incredibly burned out on rolling these tubes.  Absolutely no fun in it at all, just crossed fingers.
  
 I do still think the idea of doing the full wave bridge rectification scheme has a lot of value.  The difference may not be huge but it eliminates parts from the signal chain, and in a TOTL amp like Glenn's stuff you can probably tell the difference.  We used the 6BY5 because it has the unique ability to do this with 2 tubes where usually you need 4 when using TV damper diodes.  The 6AX4 is the typically used tube I believe.
  
 I'd encourage others to consider the 6AX4 if they're doing a high dollar amp with a big chassis, assuming the tube is compatible in terms of things like PI voltage.  Stay away from the 6BY5 though.  Enticing as it seems to cut 4 tubes down to 2 this thing is nothing but a buzzy, hummy pain in the ass.
  
 Luckily there isn't even the option if you're doing 300B since the 6BY5 can't handle the voltage.  On paper it seemed ideal for a 45 or 2A3 amp.......... in practice, not so much.


----------



## TonyNewman

rosgr63 said:


> You are not alone Tony, welcome to the club!


 
  
 Next time I get the urge to do something idiotic with my audio dollars I think I will just stab myself in the face with a fork instead.
  
 That should be lot more fun and certainly less expensive


----------



## Khragon

Tony, why can't you continue to get them replaced under warranty?


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Tony, why can't you continue to get them replaced under warranty?


 
  
 Because I don't want to continue to put 300B tubes with such abominable reliability in my amp. Both original tubes have failed in the first 100 hours - one failed @ 20 hours and the other @ 80 hours. One "runaway" and the other shorting. Only the lowered fuses of 250mA saved me from potentially damaging my amp (again). It's just not worth it.
  
 While I am waiting on the Taks the EATs are doing a pretty good job. Not a lot of mid-range magic happening, but these are very fine tubes. Detailed, extended and quite pleasant.


----------



## Khragon

Look like we need a burner amp to stress these tubes to verify their reliability before using them on our precious.  I searched eBay and Amazon and cheapest are around 800 - 1000 shipped, still kinda expensive.


----------



## Xcalibur255

A burner 300B............ you guys have waaaaaay more money than I do.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> A burner 300B............ you guys have waaaaaay more money than I do.


 
  
 Only burner tubes - the CNEs in this case. Still kicking myself for being so stupid.


----------



## rosgr63

tonynewman said:


> Next time I get the urge to do something idiotic with my audio dollars I think I will just stab myself in the face with a fork instead.
> 
> That should be lot more fun and certainly less expensive




No way Tony, too drastic.
When things go wrong hit the pies and cookies.......more fun.

PS you are allowed to swear!!!!!


----------



## TonyNewman

rosgr63 said:


> No way Tony, too drastic.
> When things go wrong hit the pies and cookies.......more fun.
> 
> PS you are allowed to swear!!!!!


 
  
 I'm more a beer & bacon kind of guy, but I like how your mind works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Getting back to all things Glenn amp related - have installed the 200mA fuses and so far all is good. Am driving the HE6, so that is about as demanding a headphone as there is.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Well, I'm trying yet another new pair of rectifiers in my neverending quest to find ones that don't buzz.  Right off the bat there is hum in the left channel.  I'm hoping this goes away with some run time.
> 
> I have to admit I'm getting incredibly burned out on rolling these tubes.  Absolutely no fun in it at all, just crossed fingers.
> 
> ...


 

 Tyrell
 I have the HEXFRED diodes and tube bases and will make you two SS 6BY5s when I get back from Stavros house.
 Some time next week.


----------



## dminches

Glenn, how's Greece treating you?  I hope you are eating enough.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Glenn, how's Greece treating you?  I hope you are eating enough.


 

 Hi David
  
 We always get treated great here.
 On the way back from the airport Stavros stopped to get some cheese pies.
 And his GF made us a great dinner the eating to much has only begun.
 Today Mama is going to start cooking for us don't get better then that.


----------



## lukeap69

@TonyNewman

Look what came in the mail today.


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> @TonyNewman
> 
> Look what came in the mail today.


 
  
 Nice - I hope you like that album as much as I do. "The Foggy Dew" is brilliant track, particularly over a Glenn amp


----------



## lukeap69

tonynewman said:


> Nice - I hope you like that album as much as I do. "The Foggy Dew" is brilliant track, particularly over a Glenn amp




Thanks for the recommendation mate!


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> We always get treated great here. On the way back from the airport Stavros stopped to get some cheese pies.
> And his GF made us a great dinner the eating to much has only begun.
> Today Mama is going to start cooking for us don't get better then that.


 
 That's fantastic Glenn.
 I hope you and Lucy have a great time and more cheese pies than you really should.
 Stavros will help!


----------



## Khragon

My very own wall of fame, with the King on top.


----------



## lukeap69

khragon said:


> My very own wall of fame, with the King on top.




Very nice setup.


----------



## Khragon

Thanks, if you pay attention you'll see that I put 10 extra holes in the wall , wife wasn't so happy.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Hi David
> 
> We always get treated great here.
> On the way back from the airport Stavros stopped to get some cheese pies.
> ...


 
  
 Hey Glenn, hope you and Stavros are having a great time.  
  
 I think I might have found a pair of tubes that behave.  Got some cheap straight bottles in that quiet down pretty well once they're warm, but it's too soon to tell.  I've had these tubes be good for a while and then suddenly misbehave, like the ones that nuked themselves a couple of weeks ago.  I thought those were the tubes I could just leave in the amp until they blew themselves up for no apparent reason.
  
 It will be nice to have an alternative to fall back onto.


----------



## 2359glenn

Some food pictures from Greece
  

  

  

  
 Wild boar sausage


----------



## alota

2359glenn said:


> Some food pictures from Greece
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I remember this food and the great friend in Greece. Really great times. I desire to go back. Have a good time 
p.s.: you can see my beautiful face in a picture 

Enviado do meu ALE-L21 através de Tapatalk


----------



## alota

tapatalk error. sorry


----------



## alota

tapatalk error. sorry


----------



## whirlwind

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Some food pictures from Greece
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That looks so damn wonderful.
  
 If you and Lucy eat everyday like this, you will be coming home with about 20 extra pounds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Stay safe and have fun.


----------



## alota

Safe in greece is complicated. Too much food and too much love from Stavros 

Enviado do meu ALE-L21 através de Tapatalk


----------



## 2359glenn

alota said:


> Safe in greece is complicated. Too much food and too much love from Stavros
> 
> Enviado do meu ALE-L21 através de Tapatalk


 

 Aldo
 Stavros out done himself again today we had Slovaki and Kabobs BBQ chicken and pork
 this is crazyness. Yesterday was Mama's home made noodles.
 Don't know when I had so much wonderful food.
 Stavros is great


----------



## alota

2359glenn said:


> Aldo
> Stavros out done himself again today we had Slovaki and Kabobs BBQ chicken and pork
> this is crazyness. Yesterday was Mama's home made noodles.
> Don't know when I had so much wonderful food.
> Stavros is great


 
 well. Stavros for me is better compared to my family. He is a piece of my heart.
 about the food. two years ago, after your visit to Stavros, i remember at 10.00 A.M. a plate full of grilled meat. perfect insanity.
 the nice situation is that i´m sicilian from an ancient greek colony called Siracusa that was the city of Archimede. well, the greece is perfectly similar to my land.
 right now, i´m perfectly envious!!!!!i want the sea of Maratona!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

Come on guys, you are making me cry with happiness.
  
 You only see my good side because you are my family....ask Mama and my girlfriend then you'll find out how bad I am.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Come on guys, you are making me cry with happiness.
> 
> You only see my good side because you are my family....ask Mama and my girlfriend then you'll find out how bad I am.


 

 What about Lucy she knows how bad you are.
  
 From the other room


----------



## rosgr63

Lucy is biased too because she's the sister I never had


----------



## alota

Ahahahahahahahah two guys in the same house speaking through head-fi.
 the heat is bad ahahahahahah


----------



## Xcalibur255

You guys are really making me hate my diet.


----------



## TonyNewman

Hi Glenn - hope you are enjoying good food and good company in Greece.
  
 A technical question if you get a chance. After my disasters with the TJ CNE 300B, I am looking at the EML tubes. I notice that the WE standard filament current is 1.2A. The standard plate EML 300B draws 1.3A and the 300B-XLS draws 1.5A.
  
 Is the 1.5A of the 300B-XLS a concern in my amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> Hi Glenn - hope you are enjoying good food and good company in Greece.
> 
> A technical question if you get a chance. After my disasters with the TJ CNE 300B, I am looking at the EML tubes. I notice that the WE standard filament current is 1.2A. The standard plate EML 300B draws 1.3A and the 300B-XLS draws 1.5A.
> 
> Is the 1.5A of the 300B-XLS a concern in my amp?


 

 Tony
 The voltage regulators on the heat sinks on the back of the amp are rated at 5 amps so this is no problem.
 Just got back from a restaurant on marathon lake very nice!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

I too need a heat sink or two to take off the heat from the trouble I am in with Lucy..........


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Tony
> The voltage regulators on the heat sinks on the back of the amp are rated at 5 amps so this is no problem.
> Just got back from a restaurant on marathon lake very nice!!!!


 
  
 Thanks Glenn. By the way, I grew up in Melbourne which has a huge immigrant Greek population. I learnt to swear in Greek before I was 12 - fun times.


----------



## rosgr63

I have family in Melbourne 
Small world isn't it


----------



## TonyNewman

rosgr63 said:


> I have family in Melbourne
> Small world isn't it


 
  
 And getting smaller all the time. The "degrees of separation" seems to reduce with every generation.
  
 Have ever visited Melbourne?


----------



## rosgr63

Sydney and Adeleide.
  
 Pleased to know you had Classical Education Tony.


----------



## TonyNewman

rosgr63 said:


> Sydney and Adeleide.
> 
> Pleased to know you had Classical Education Tony.


 
  
 My school buddies George Yannakakis and George Papadimitropolous taught me all the essentials of the Greek language and culture 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Sydney and Adelaide have Greek enclaves, but nothing like what Melbourne has.


----------



## rosgr63

Good afternoon Tony.
  
 I see you've been learning from the very best!!!!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For me it was the opposite I was taught Modern from my Aussie and Kiwi mates.
  
*PS* had nothing to do about tubes


----------



## Khragon

Consolidated my most used tubes in one pelican container, got tired of having multiple boxes that I have to deal with while rolling tubes.


----------



## vc1187

khragon said:


> Consolidated my most used tubes in one pelican container, got tired of having multiple boxes that I have to deal with while rolling tubes.


 

 Love the look!  Did you do the cutouts yourself?  How much did the whole thing cost (box and foam)?
  
 Looking for a solution for my 2A3 tube collection


----------



## Khragon

I got the pelican case with their "pick and pluck" foam. The model I got is 1520, it's the one with depth just enough to fit the PY500A tubes standing up. Very easy to use, I simply insert my finger to separate the forms and then pull them out.


----------



## parbaked

These are also made by Pelican. You can also pick and pluck so you can store tubes in their boxes.
  
 https://tubedepot.com/products/the-tubecube-tube-protection-system
 https://tubedepot.com/products/the-tubecube-pro-tube-protection-system
  
You MUST buy the Pro Model if you're storing $1000 tubes!


----------



## Clayton SF

whirlwind said:


> That looks so damn wonderful.
> 
> If you and Lucy eat everyday like this, you will be coming home with about 20 extra pounds
> 
> ...


 

 Big food, big family, big love. Good to see that Glenn and Stavros continue to perpetuate all that is family—be it amps, food, company or otherwise.


----------



## gibosi

Glenn...  I wonder if you have ever built anything using the 6AH4 single triode? According to this writer, it looks to be suitable to drive a 300B.
  
 http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2012/03/tube-of-month-6ah4.html
  
 However, if you you are unwilling to pry yourself away from all the good food and good company to answer this now, I completely understand.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Glenn...  I wonder if you have ever built anything using the 6AH4 single triode? According to this writer, it looks to be suitable to drive a 300B.
> 
> http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2012/03/tube-of-month-6ah4.html
> 
> However, if you you are unwilling to pry yourself away from all the good food and good company to answer this now, I completely understand.


 
  
 It seems a lot like a single section version of a 6BL7/6BX7 tube.  Looks pretty similar in most ways.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Glenn...  I wonder if you have ever built anything using the 6AH4 single triode? According to this writer, it looks to be suitable to drive a 300B.
> 
> http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2012/03/tube-of-month-6ah4.html
> 
> However, if you you are unwilling to pry yourself away from all the good food and good company to answer this now, I completely understand.


 

 Hi Ken I am home buy the way.
 Yes the 6AH4 is 1/2 of a 6BL7.
 Another goodie is the 6CK4 is 1/2 a 6AS7 but sounds better.


----------



## whirlwind

Welcome back, Glenn.
  
 I assume when you step on the scales, after coming back from Greece, the number is higher than when you left to go there.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Welcome back, Glenn.
> 
> I assume when you step on the scales, after coming back from Greece, the number is higher than when you left to go there.




You mean he brought some tubes from Stavros house?


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Welcome back, Glenn.
> 
> I assume when you step on the scales, after coming back from Greece, the number is higher than when you left to go there.


 

 Not yet I have shirts that fit before I left not any more.
 I will get on a scale at work afraid to maybe I beat last time 15lbs in 10 days.


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Welcome back, Glenn.
> ...


 

 No tubes from Stavros even though he has one of the best collections I ever seen.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Hi Ken I am home buy the way.
> Yes the 6AH4 is 1/2 of a 6BL7.
> Another goodie is the 6CK4 is 1/2 a 6AS7 but sounds better.


 
  
 Welcome back! 
  
 I noticed that the plate structure resembled the 6BL7 and the heater current of 0.75 A, one-half that of the 6BL7, and so I wondered if the 6AH4 might be one-half of a 6BL7. However, what threw me off is the amplification factor, only 8 for the 6AH4 but 15 for the 6BL7. I thought that each section of the 6BL7 had a mu of 15, but now I wonder if perhaps the mu of a double triode is simply the sum of the two sections?
  
 Edit: Just checked the 6J5, one-half of a 6SN7, and it has a mu of 20, the same as the 6SN7. So for some reason the 6AH4 has one-half the mu of a 6BL7...


----------



## rosgr63

clayton sf said:


> Big food, big family, big love. Good to see that Glenn and Stavros continue to perpetuate all that is family—be it amps, food, company or otherwise.


 
  
 Hi Clayton, we hope you'll join us one day.
  


2359glenn said:


> Not yet I have shirts that fit before I left not any more.
> I will get on a scale at work afraid to maybe I beat last time 15lbs in 10 days.


 
  
 Could be worst Glenn..........I'll have to try harder next time.
  


2359glenn said:


> No tubes from Stavros even though he has one of the best collections I ever seen.


 
  
 Still a long way to go.
 There is no hope for tube addicts.


----------



## alota

i will put to run Glenn and Stavros.
 The tube´s closet of Stavros is like Fort Knox.
 and in the end: Portugal european champion!!!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

alota said:


> i will put to run Glenn and Stavros.
> The tube´s closet of Stavros is like Fort Knox.
> and in the end: Portugal european champion!!!!!!


 
 Ha ha....all of those tubes + an amp from Glenn = One helluva good time.


----------



## rosgr63

alota said:


> i will put to run Glenn and Stavros.
> The tube´s closet of Stavros is like Fort Knox.
> and in the end: Portugal european champion!!!!!!


 
  
  
 Well done Portugal.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





whirlwind said:


> Ha ha....all of those tubes + an amp from Glenn = One helluva good time.


 
  
 Make that three............


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You lucky dog.


----------



## parbaked

alota said:


> Portugal european champion!!!!!!


 
 Congratulations Aldo...always nice to see you here!


----------



## alota

parbaked said:


> Congratulations Aldo...always nice to see you here!


 
 thank you!!! good to see you!


----------



## gibosi

Glenn,
  
 If one 6AS7 draws 100ma, it seems to me that four would draw 400ma. However, the tube rectifiers available to us can provide at most 350ma (3DG4). So I wonder... What kind of magic allows me to run two pairs of 6AS7 in your OTL?


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Glenn,
> 
> If one 6AS7 draws 100ma, it seems to me that four would draw 400ma. However, the tube rectifiers available to us can provide at most 350ma (3DG4). So I wonder... What kind of magic allows me to run two pairs of 6AS7 in your OTL?




I seem to remember Glenn offering to make a tube socketed device that had the SS rectifiers in it, That should do it, 'eh?

You could then switch back and forth from Tube to SS rectification....

.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Glenn,
> 
> If one 6AS7 draws 100ma, it seems to me that four would draw 400ma. However, the tube rectifiers available to us can provide at most 350ma (3DG4). So I wonder... What kind of magic allows me to run two pairs of 6AS7 in your OTL?


 

 Hi Ken
 There is one cathode resistor when the two tubes try to draw more current through this resistor the voltage drop across it increases. This raises the negative grid voltage
 decreasing the current through the tubes. but the impedance of the output still goes down.


----------



## 2359glenn

jazzvinyl said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn,
> ...


 

 Yes I can make SS rectifier substitutes made with HEXFRED rectifiers they are rated at 6 amp 1200 volts.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Yes I can make SS rectifier substitutes made with HEXFRED rectifiers they are rated at 6 amp 1200 volts.


 
 Wonder if there will be any changes in sound with HEXFRED, are these compatible with PY500A, can you sign me up for a pair too


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I can make SS rectifier substitutes made with HEXFRED rectifiers they are rated at 6 amp 1200 volts.
> ...


 

 I don't think I can get those 9 pin bases.
 Future amps will have SS rectifiers I have found no difference in sound from 42EC4 to the Hexfred diodes.
 And all future amps will be self bias no more adjusting bias and meters. Maybe a slight degrade in SQ due to a cathode resistor and bypass capacitor.
 This will help stop what happened to Tony when using crappy tubes.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Hi Ken
> There is one cathode resistor when the two tubes try to draw more current through this resistor the voltage drop across it increases. This raises the negative grid voltage
> decreasing the current through the tubes. but the impedance of the output still goes down.


 
  
 Thanks for the explanation. I figured that the amp was limiting the current but I had no idea how it was doing it.
  


2359glenn said:


> Yes I can make SS rectifier substitutes made with HEXFRED rectifiers they are rated at 6 amp 1200 volts.


 
  
 Someday I would like to try one of your HEXFRED rectifiers. It would be interesting to see how it compares to the 5 volt rectifiers I am currently using.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Ken
> ...


 

 OK I will make you one they will cost about $20


----------



## Xcalibur255

Is the instant-on nature of a solid state diode more stressful for the downstream power tube Glenn?
  
 Looking forward to trying mine whenever they are ready.  Let me know what you need from me.
  
 Best case scenario for me would be that the amp sounds the same, only without all the noise and microphonic issues that I just cannot get tackled.  I'm on my 9th pair of 6BY5s now, still can't find a pair that's good.  The pair I thought might work out became microphonic and are introducing noise into the headphones now.
  
 Easy to see why nobody uses the 6BY5 now.  It's because they suck.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Is the instant-on nature of a solid state diode more stressful for the downstream power tube Glenn?
> 
> Looking forward to trying mine whenever they are ready.  Let me know what you need from me.
> 
> ...


 

 Not really if a amp uses a 5U4 it is pretty much instant on.
 Actually the 6BY5 have a good rep.
 The SS tubes are $20 each plus $8 shipping


----------



## TonyNewman

Hi Glenn, could I get in on that SS substitute action? I would want to order 4 and shipping to NZ (assuming you can do a PY500 SS substitute).
  
 Having a failed PY500 take out my home power supply wasn't much fun.


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn said he did not think he could get them in the 9 pin bases.
  
 Sounds like they sound pretty much the same as 42EC4/PY500.
  
 Maybe, I am misunderstanding him, though.


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> Glenn said he did not think he could get them in the 9 pin bases.
> 
> Sounds like they sound pretty much the same as 42EC4/PY500.
> 
> Maybe, I am misunderstanding him, though.


 
  
 Ah - my bad. Apologies.


----------



## Khragon

Searched around a bit and can't find 9-pin tube base.  Look like a good candidate for 3D printing.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Searched around a bit and can't find 9-pin tube base.  Look like a good candidate for 3D printing.


 

 I even looked for 9 pin test sockets but only could find one. Would need at least 2.


----------



## Khragon

Glenn, does that mean the test adapter for me is on hold too?
  
 Will these work?
 https://reverb.com/uk/item/1025992-vacuum-tube-socket-saver-9-pin


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Glenn, does that mean the test adapter for me is on hold too?
> 
> Will these work?
> https://reverb.com/uk/item/1025992-vacuum-tube-socket-saver-9-pin


 

 The test adapter will be 9 pin socket to octal tube base.
 Those 9 pin socket savers are for small 9 pin tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Ken
 I will be shipping the SS to 5U4 adapter tomorrow Monday.
 Let me know how you like the sound?  I think they sound as good or better then the best rectifiers.


----------



## Rossliew

Hi Glenn,

Reckon you have time to build another of the hexfred ss rectifier for my 1st gen OTL amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Hi Glenn,
> 
> Reckon you have time to build another of the hexfred ss rectifier for my 1st gen OTL amp?


 
 Yes I will build you one


----------



## TonyNewman

New tubes have arrived. Taks are on back order with Price Japan, but the EMLs have landed:
  

  
 Really nice build quality - right up there with the very best that I have seen (Takatsuki). SQ beats the EATs, even with zero hours on them these tubes sound good. The EATs were missing 'body' - a little thin sounding and bright at times. The EMLs are very pleasant. Have some Melody Gardot playing right now and it is making me happy. I had avoided the EML plate 300Bs as I had assumed (wrongly) that they were a similar animal to the EATs that I already have. That assumption was WRONG. Very wrong. Better build quality and, so far, better SQ.
  
 I am kicking myself - hard - in my dangling pink bits for throwing money at the stupid TJ CNE tubes when the EMLs were available - and cheaper. I will take a cheese grater to my nutsac if these EML tubes implode before 100 hours like the craptastic TJs did.
  
 The EML mesh 300B should be back in stock in September - will be getting my hands on those too. Once I have both flavours of EML 300B with a few hundred hours on them I will do some A/B comparison. Might even have the Taks by then for some A/B/C action, but the Taks take forever to burn in (300+ hours).


----------



## Khragon

Cool, looks huge, is this the xls version?


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Hi Ken
> I will be shipping the SS to 5U4 adapter tomorrow Monday.
> Let me know how you like the sound?  I think they sound as good or better then the best rectifiers.


 
  
 Thanks Glenn!
  
 I am really looking forward to it!


----------



## TonyNewman

Nope - standard plate 300B. Thought about the XLS, but it really isn't necessary as my headamp is "light duty" for a 300B. I run my 300Bs @ 60mA - treat em gentle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The biggest difference between the EML and EAT is that richness in the vocals - that is missing with the EATs - these EMLs have it. Nice.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Yes I will build you one




Thanks a lot, Glenn. Please let me know how much to pay including shipping to Malaysia and your PayPal address, please. 

Could you make me 2? Use one as a spare


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> New tubes have arrived. Taks are on back order with Price Japan, but the EMLs have landed:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice tubes even has cooling fins on the plate


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I will build you one
> ...


 

 OK I will make you 2 it will be a couple of days have to get more Epoxi to fill them with.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> OK I will make you 2 it will be a couple of days have to get more Epoxi to fill them with.


 

 No hurry, Glenn


----------



## Xcalibur255

I guess he who shouts the least gets heard last.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> I guess he who shouts the least gets heard last.


 

 Common Tyrell
 How many adapters have I made you in the past.
 They are made just have to get Epoxy to fill them with.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Common Tyrell
> How many adapters have I made you in the past.
> They are made just have to get Epoxy to fill them with.


 
  
 I'm teasing.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Nice tubes even has cooling fins on the plate


 
  
 Really pleased with the build quality and the sound quality (so far). Tubes are raw (10 hours on them now) so still a little rough and closed, but a pleasant listen regardless. 100 hours will be the real test for these (according to EML their tubes require 50 to 100 hours burn in).
  
 Also happy with the bias drift - there hasn't been any. I set the bias @ 60mA when I first installed these tubes and tweaked it slightly after about 30 minutes operating after that. Since that first run in it has been rock steady. Only other tubes to do that for me have been the Takatsukis. Another quality sign, I hope.
  
 Going to be fun seeing how close these get to the Taks for SQ. Given that they are about 1/3 the price, the value proposition gets kinda crazy pretty fast.


----------



## gibosi

HEXFRED (For some reason I want to say Hexifreddie! lol) arrived today. Thanks Glenn! 
  

  

  
 From the outside, it is appears to be an octal socket filled full of epoxy (with a rather artistic arrangement of bubbles on top I should add) and it is very solid. Put it in and, of course, it works! But until I have had some time to compare it to my favorites, GEC U18/20 and Cossor 53KU, can't really say how it sounds....


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> HEXFRED (For some reason I want to say Hexifreddie! lol) arrived today. Thanks Glenn!




WOW! That was FAST! Does Glenn live next door to you?


----------



## gibosi

jazzvinyl said:


> WOW! That was FAST! Does Glenn live next door to you?


 
  
 I can only wish! lol


----------



## jhljhl

How about eml mesh plate - can those survive the woo wa5/le?


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> How about eml mesh plate - can those survive the woo wa5/le?


 

 It should but I don't know what the plate current is in the woo.
 Tony has manual bias so he can turn it down for mesh plate tubes that can't handle as much current as solid plate.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> HEXFRED (For some reason I want to say Hexifreddie! lol) arrived today. Thanks Glenn!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am not really proud of that Epoxy job tried to tap the bubbles out but more came up from the bottom


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> I am not really proud of that Epoxy job tried to tap the bubbles out but more came up from the bottom




Black Fingernail Polish...


----------



## musicman59

jhljhl said:


> How about eml mesh plate - can those survive the woo wa5/le?


 
 Yes they can I have been running them for 5 years in mine.


----------



## jhljhl

musicman59 said:


> Yes they can I have been running them for 5 years in mine.


 

 How they compare?


----------



## TonyNewman

I have been reading the official history of UK war production in WW2 (yes, very nerdy, I know) and just came across the section dealing with valves. Interesting reading. The usual suspects all get a mention - Mullard, Cossor, GEC etc.
  
 Some fun facts:

Pre-war UK valve production was around 16 million per annum, with the military taking around 500,000 of that total.
With the widespread usage of radio and radar equipment the demand for valves jumped enormously during WW2, until in 1944 the demand was a staggering 60 million units. Many of these were specialist valves for use in centimetric radar sets. Despite a massive effort, the UK could not meet this number and had to import 15 million valves from the USA in 1944 under Lend Lease.
The UK War Office worked on the assumption of "7 valves per socket" - meaning that over the life of a piece of equipment every valve could be expected to be replaced 6 times.
  
 A little OT, but it makes me look at my 1944/1945 NOS TS RP and NU 6F8G/6C8Gs with a new respect. These valves were vital to the allied cause and were a high priority production item.
  
 I don't have figures for valve production in the USA for 1943 or 1944, but I would guess a figure well in excess of 100 million for both years. No wonder a few survived to be snapped up by OCD audio nuts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 For anyone interested in such things, the volume is available for Kindle download for around $4. LINK


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm convinced that a large chunk of the surviving round plate Tung Sol 6SN7s are B stock pieces that went onto a military surplus shelf to be used in times of major shortage.  They were parts that tested low off the factory line or had some other issue.  The A stock tubes that passed all tests went out into the field and powered equipment that was used during the war.
  
 Of course some of these supplies will have remained after the fighting ended, but I think a lot of it was actually used up for its intended purpose.  It's those rare caches of tubes you find over in Europe that are the really good scores for US made tubes, because they were A stock sent over there for the war effort that never actually got used.  The stuff that stayed in the states was the backup supply.


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> ...
> 
> Of course some of these supplies will have remained after the fighting ended, but I think a lot of it was actually used up for its intended purpose.  It's those rare caches of tubes you find over in Europe that are the really good scores for US made tubes, because they were A stock sent over there for the war effort that never actually got used.  The stuff that stayed in the states was the backup supply.


 
  
 Interesting. My TS RPs came from a supplier in Italy who got them cheap from a NATO base. My NUs came mostly from India - also a military surplus buy.


----------



## TonyNewman

Deleted - just read the reply of someone that has run them (EML mesh) for 5 years with no drama.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> Deleted - just read the reply of someone that has run them (EML mesh) for 5 years with no drama.


 

 Good tubes you can tell by the bias staying rock steady no drifting.
 I use KR globe 300Bs with no issues what so ever had them for a year now and used every day.  TV sound played through the
 amp for good sound so on at least 6 to 8 hrs a day every day.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Good tubes you can tell by the bias staying rock steady no drifting.
> ...


 
  
 Yep - Taks/EML have all been very stable. I like that.
  
 I am contemplating hacking off a pinky finger joint - Yakuza style - to remind myself to never, ever put craptastic tubes from you-know-where in my amp again.


----------



## musicman59

jhljhl said:


> How they compare?


 
 I have used the EAT, Elrog and AVVT.
 I personally like them better than the EAT and Elrog (the Elrog failed). IMO they are much more musical.
 The AVVT 32SL are just a little behind them in musicality but they have a higher output. They are equivalent to the EML 300B XLS and since I have the original version of the WA5-LE my HE-1000 benefit form the extra power.
  
 I am in the list and hopefully close the the top (Glenn?) for ones of Glenn's 300B amps.


----------



## gibosi

HEXFRED
  
 I haven't yet had a chance to directly compare the HEXFRED to any 5 volt tube rectifiers, but I did plug it in and spend some time with it last night. My initial impression is that the HEXFRED is a very fast and transparent rectifier. But upon further reflection, given that the voltage drop is very near zero, it might be more accurate to say that the HEXFRED has no affect on the sound. Nothing is added or subtracted, and therefore, with the HEXFRED installed, it is all about the sound of driver and output tubes. And it occurs to me that perhaps the HEXFRED gives me a sound similar to an OTL with the updated transformer and 42EC4/PY500 rectifiers? (An interesting side note, the HEXFRED never seems to get hot. After several hours of listening last night, it was cool to the touch.)
  
 And speaking of drivers and output tubes, I am currently running a quad of 1953 GE 6BX7 and a Tung-Sol RPBG 12AH7. I have tried both Sylvania and GE 6BX7 as output tubes, and find that I prefer the GE. That said, my ears are somewhat sensitive to treble and I find that with some drivers, the Sylvania has too much treble energy for my comfort. But of course, my ears and gear... YMMV. 
  
 Here on Head-Fi, both Xcalibur and Jamato have compared the 6AH7 and its loctal counterpart, the 7AF7, to the 6SN7 and found them to be wanting. But it seems to me that in the case of these tubes it is not always easy to find a suitable 6SN7 counterpart for comparison purposes. So when I saw this RPBG 12AH7, I felt that this was the comparison to make. The 12AH7 is still not burned in, but my impression is that this tube is every bit as good at imaging and front-to-back layering as the TS 6SN7. But will be able to say more after I have had a chance to compare it directly, rather than going by memory.


----------



## rosgr63

xcalibur255 said:


> I'm convinced that a large chunk of the surviving round plate Tung Sol 6SN7s are B stock pieces that went onto a military surplus shelf to be used in times of major shortage.  They were parts that tested low off the factory line or had some other issue.  The A stock tubes that passed all tests went out into the field and powered equipment that was used during the war.
> 
> Of course some of these supplies will have remained after the fighting ended, but I think a lot of it was actually used up for its intended purpose.  It's those rare caches of tubes you find over in Europe that are the really good scores for US made tubes, because they were A stock sent over there for the war effort that never actually got used.  The stuff that stayed in the states was the backup supply.


 

 If that's the case I'm lucky as most of my US tubes are of European stock.
  
 The AVVT 300BSL-C37 Ennemoser design are also great tubes and the the Mesh plates even better.
 The AVVT PX4M considered by some as the holly grail of PX4.
  
 Alesha like Glenn is a genius, their designs often copied and used by others.
  
 I see some traitors here going SS...........


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm convinced that a large chunk of the surviving round plate Tung Sol 6SN7s are B stock pieces that went onto a military surplus shelf to be used in times of major shortage.  They were parts that tested low off the factory line or had some other issue.  The A stock tubes that passed all tests went out into the field and powered equipment that was used during the war.
> ...


 

 What do you mean traitors it's only the rectifier!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> What do you mean traitors it's only the rectifier!!


 
  
 And in my case it's pretty much out of necessity.  If I can't find a decent pair of tubes after 10 tries I don't think I'm going to.
  
 Not that I still haven't had good listening sessions.  I have the globe 45s back in the amp and it sounded _glorious_ last night (I went to bed way too late).  But the buzzing noise, either in the room or in the headphone, isn't something I feel I should have to settle for.
  
 So on that note, very much looking forward to hearing how a hexfred diode sounds.  I don't think I have very much voltage drop right now since the amp has way more powersupply than it really needs.  I'm expecting a tiny uptick in PRAT and transient definition and hopefully no change in tone.


----------



## 2359glenn

musicman59 said:


> jhljhl said:
> 
> 
> > How they compare?
> ...


 

 Yes you are close to the top.
 It will be worth the wait It will top anything out there.


----------



## Xcalibur255

On a semi-related note Glenn, how is your amp that you're building for yourself coming along?  I think it uses EL3N tubes if I recall correctly?


----------



## Khragon

Still enjoying my Glenn 300B, burning in the Elrog right now, it's slow since I am not "burning in" as I listen, so maybe only a couple hours a day, 8 hours max when I dozed off listening and forgot to turn the amp off until the morning.


----------



## musicman59

2359glenn said:


> Yes you are close to the top.
> It will be worth the wait It will top anything out there.


 
 Yaeh!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Can't wait. PM me next steps.....


----------



## rosgr63

xcalibur255 said:


> And in my case it's pretty much out of necessity.  If I can't find a decent pair of tubes after 10 tries I don't think I'm going to.
> 
> Not that I still haven't had good listening sessions.  I have the globe 45s back in the amp and it sounded _glorious_ last night (I went to bed way too late).  But the buzzing noise, either in the room or in the headphone, isn't something I feel I should have to settle for.
> 
> So on that note, very much looking forward to hearing how a hexfred diode sounds.  I don't think I have very much voltage drop right now since the amp has way more powersupply than it really needs.  I'm expecting a tiny uptick in PRAT and transient definition and hopefully no change in tone.


 

 I know, I know.
  
 Tyrell which 45's are you using?


----------



## 2359glenn

musicman59 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes you are close to the top.
> ...


 
 I plan on finishing my EL3N amp this weekend then I have a OTL to build then I will contact you.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> On a semi-related note Glenn, how is your amp that you're building for yourself coming along?  I think it uses EL3N tubes if I recall correctly?


 

 I am hoping to finish this amp this weekend. This tube is said to sound as good as a 45 or PX4 when wired as a triode without the direct heated hassle.
 It will have a switch triode = 1 watt or pentode = 4 watts but loses some of the triode magic.  Going to have a AZ4 rectifier.
 Sure do hope it sounds good after spending $900 on Lundahl transformers.
 Fun to build something new for a change.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Still enjoying my Glenn 300B, burning in the Elrog right now, it's slow since I am not "burning in" as I listen, so maybe only a couple hours a day, 8 hours max when I dozed off listening and forgot to turn the amp off until the morning.


 

 I thought the Elrog sounded great the way it was new.
 You think it will get better?


----------



## Khragon

It sounded great already, but just wanted to see if it can be greater 
 Elrog is very neutral sounding tube with great clarity, was hoping with some burn in it will lean just a tad toward warmer side.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I am hoping to finish this amp this weekend. This tube is said to sound as good as a 45 or PX4 when wired as a triode without the direct heated hassle.
> It will have a switch triode = 1 watt or pentode = 4 watts but loses some of the triode magic.  Going to have a AZ4 rectifier.
> Sure do hope it sounds good after spending $900 on Lundahl transformers.
> Fun to build something new for a change.


 
  
 I'd love to ear test it for you like we talked about a while back, if you want a second opinion on the sound of that tube from somebody who listens to 45 tubes all the time.  
  
 If you don't want to send it through the mail for something like that though I totally understand.


----------



## Xcalibur255

rosgr63 said:


> I know, I know.
> 
> Tyrell which 45's are you using?


 
  
 Ken-Rad UX-245 globes, circa 1930 or 1931 as best as I've been able to determine.
  
 They eat all of my ST style 45 tubes for lunch.    I could make them sound even better if I ran them at full bias but I was extremely lucky to find this pair in this kind of condition and consider them kind of irreplaceable.
  
 Some people tell me the EML 45 tubes are as good or better, but they're crazy expensive and I am absolutely loving the sound I have right now so I don't feel the need to find out right now.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I should put my bare glass C3g tubes back in someday.


----------



## whirlwind

^^ Beautiful amp ^^


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> I should put my bare glass C3g tubes back in someday.


 

 The HEXFRED adapters are not going to look as nice as the 6BY5s


----------



## jhljhl

2359glenn said:


> The HEXFRED adapters are not going to look as nice as the 6BY5s


 

 Cary 300sei use hexfred rectifiers as a factory upgrade option.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> The HEXFRED adapters are not going to look as nice as the 6BY5s




Decorate with colored LED's...


----------



## lukeap69

jazzvinyl said:


> Decorate with colored LED's...




Or paint 'em pink!


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> Or paint 'em nipple pink!


 
  
 Fixed your post


----------



## lukeap69

Thanks. It's much better.


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The HEXFRED adapters are not going to look as nice as the 6BY5s
> ...


 

 They really are better then any tube rectifier. People pay $1000 for a TAK 274B crazy when 2 HEXFRED diodes
 cost $2.  Cary is getting rid of the 5U4s to HEXFREDS as a upgrade and they are much
 better then any 5U4 or 274 no voltage drop or sag in voltage when the amp draws more current.
 I prefer tube rectifiers but cheep ones I am not nuts yet to spend $1K on a 5U4 that could be spent on good 300Bs.


----------



## rosgr63

tonynewman said:


> Fixed your post


 
  
  
 Great mod Tony!!!!!!!!!!
  


2359glenn said:


> They really are better then any tube rectifier. People pay $1000 for a TAK 274B crazy when 2 HEXFRED diodes
> cost $2.  Cary is getting rid of the 5U4s to HEXFREDS as a upgrade and they are much
> better then any 5U4 or 274 no voltage drop or sag in voltage when the amp draws more current.
> I prefer tube rectifiers but cheep ones I am not nuts yet to spend $1K on a 5U4 that could be spent on good 300Bs.


 
  
 Tubes all the way, but at a sensible price.
 With tube rectifiers you can change the sound with SS is a take it or leave it situation.
  
 Saying that I have tube amps with SS rectifiers and I love them..............so it's all about the design and implementation.


----------



## musicman59

2359glenn said:


> I plan on finishing my EL3N amp this weekend then I have a OTL to build then I will contact you.


 
 Cool! Thanks Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

musicman59 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I plan on finishing my EL3N amp this weekend then I have a OTL to build then I will contact you.
> ...


 

 Do you want tube 42EC4 or SS rectifiers.


----------



## musicman59

2359glenn said:


> Do you want tube 42EC4 or SS rectifiers.


 
 I trust you, whatever you think is best.
 I already have 2 or 3 pairs of PY500 but not a big deal if I don't use them. I will go with your recommendation, you are the guru!


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> They really are better then any tube rectifier. People pay $1000 for a TAK 274B crazy when 2 HEXFRED diodes
> cost $2.  Cary is getting rid of the 5U4s to HEXFREDS as a upgrade and they are much
> better then any 5U4 or 274 no voltage drop or sag in voltage when the amp draws more current.
> I prefer tube rectifiers but cheep ones I am not nuts yet to spend $1K on a 5U4 that could be spent on good 300Bs.




Look like we need to show the community this, one of the reason I moved away from Woo is the rectifier cost, WA5 uses 2 5U4, so double the $1k+ for rectifiers if going for totl sound. Maybe @badas can order a hexfred from you for his wa22 to compare to the tak he got and post his impressions.

On tge 42ec4 vs ss, the only reason you're not able to make the ss adapters is the base right? Do you think we could sacrifice a set of 42ec4 and cut them open, carefully with maybe a copper pipe cutter, slowly grinding the glass down, then remove the internals and make space foe the hexfred diodes?


----------



## rosgr63

A pizza with the most expensive toppings doesn't mean is best.................


----------



## jhljhl

khragon said:


> Look like we need to show the community this, one of the reason I moved away from Woo is the rectifier cost, WA5 uses 2 5U4, so double the $1k+ for rectifiers if going for totl sound. Maybe @badas can order a hexfred from you for his wa22 to compare to the tak he got and post his impressions.
> 
> On tge 42ec4 vs ss, the only reason you're not able to make the ss adapters is the base right? Do you think we could sacrifice a set of 42ec4 and cut them open, carefully with maybe a copper pipe cutter, slowly grinding the glass down, then remove the internals and make space foe the hexfred diodes?


 
  
 Owning a 300sei with hexfred rectifiers I'd say they produce a very neutral response letting the input, driver and power tubes really show through.


----------



## gibosi

rosgr63 said:


> Tubes all the way, but at a sensible price.
> With tube rectifiers you can change the sound with SS is a take it or leave it situation.


 
  
 And if you have an amp that uses 5U4-type rectifiers, a HEXFRED from Glenn gives you the best of both worlds in one amp. Having choices is always a good thing, IMHO.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Do you want tube 42EC4 or SS rectifiers.


 
  
 If a consensus gets built up by the community that the Hexfred SS setup sounds better, maybe the next step is to build them into new amps internally and not bother with the tube sockets topside anymore?  Cleaner implementation and more reliable.


----------



## whirlwind

tonynewman said:


> lukeap69 said:
> 
> 
> > Or paint 'em nipple pink!
> ...


 
 Ha ha...good one Tony
  


gibosi said:


> rosgr63 said:
> 
> 
> > Tubes all the way, but at a sensible price.
> ...


 
 +1 Ken....you have the best of both worlds.
  
 I have been on vacation for the last three weeks and I have been listening to my Grado RS1 for the past two weeks paired with Glenns amp.
  
 Before I bought my amp , I had a lot of people tell me that an OTL amp and Grado headphones was a terrible match, but that is just not the case at all.
  
 I kind of believed that I would have to use the 6336 tubes to drive them properly, and even though those tubes sound great, the 6AS7 and even some 6080 tubes, make for a wonderful combo.
  
 With the 42EC4 and the C3g's in my amp....I feel those tubes are very neutral and really transparent....the RS1 is also very transparent and I have found that just rolling the power tubes is quite the experience ....they seem to effect the sound more than I once believed.
  
 I am a low level listener with my Grados, and they pick up any back round noises really easily...but listening to them with Glenn's amp is such a fun time .
  
 It has went leaps and bounds above what I thought Grado headphones could sound on this amp.
  
 The detail with good power tubes and the C3g's is stunning...combine that with a damn black back round and these past two weeks have been a real fun time and a learning experience, for sure.
  
 One thing I like about my 42EC4 tubes is that they are all dead quiet, no buzzing or microphonics at all.
  
 I am currently enjoying the RS1 with this combo of tubes.
  

  
 Thanks Glenn, for offering such a versatile piece of gear to us.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Do you want tube 42EC4 or SS rectifiers.
> ...


 

 That is what I am planing on doing do away with tube rectifiers


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > They really are better then any tube rectifier. People pay $1000 for a TAK 274B crazy when 2 HEXFRED diodes
> ...


 

 Two of these would do the trick but I only could find this one.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pomona-Model-2749-Novar-Tall-Test-9-Pin-Socket-Adaptor-/371627539727?hash=item5686ba3d0f:g:770AAOSwMHdXSjVS


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > They really are better then any tube rectifier. People pay $1000 for a TAK 274B crazy when 2 HEXFRED diodes
> ...


 

 You do have 2 HEXFREDS in your amp it has a hybred bridge rectifier 2 SS diodes + 2 tube diodes this takes on the sound of the tubes.
 I have to do this so the power transformer has a symmetrical load and that keeps the magnetic field low.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> You do have 2 HEXFREDS in your amp it has a hybred bridge rectifier 2 SS diodes + 2 tube diodes this takes on the sound of the tubes.
> I have to do this so the power transformer has a symmetrical load and that keeps the magnetic field low.


 
  
 Cool! thanks for the info and the great design Glenn.  Was throwing out the idea of scarifying two PY500 to get HEXFREDS so we have choices, and for the potential of lowering noise even further, but I'm on the tube side myself , especially considering PY500s are low microphonic and neutral sounding.  I've rolled in a couple but didn't notice any sound changes, I've tried RCA, Phillip and Telefunken, all three with different plate structures.


----------



## Xcalibur255

*Glenn amp owners please read this first paragraph:*
  
 A friendly word of warning to people trying out these HEXFREDs for the first time in their amps.  Turn your bias pots WAAAAAAAAY down before powering on.  I turned mine down some as a precaution but it ended up not being nearly enough.  They come on much faster than tube rectifiers do and when they did the meters shot past 60mA which is massively too much for a 45 tube.  It was literally double the bias I had set the last time I ran the amp.
  
 A couple of questions for Glenn:  it took me about 5-7 seconds to get my shaking hands on my screwdriver and turn the bias pots down to something sane.  What are the consequences for my globe 45s after being hammered with 200% of their maximum plate current rating for a few seconds?  The tubes are making sound so they didn't blow up, but I'm pretty upset about it.
  
 Also, I'm assuming these SS diodes need some time to break-in just like tube ones do.  I'm guessing I need to give this about 24 hours before judging how they sound?
  
 I'm about ready to sacrifice a goat or something to try and put a stop to all these unpleasant surprises.  I just want to listen to music for goodness sake.  I've had about a 1000% more drama over the last few years than there should be in the pursuit of that simple goal.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> *Glenn amp owners please read this first paragraph:*
> 
> A friendly word of warning to people trying out these HEXFREDs for the first time in their amps.  Turn your bias pots WAAAAAAAAY down before powering on.  I turned mine down some as a precaution but it ended up not being nearly enough.  They come on much faster than tube rectifiers do and when they did the meters shot past 60mA which is massively too much for a 45 tube.  It was literally double the bias I had set the last time I ran the amp.
> 
> ...


 
 They are not going to be heart running them over current for a few seconds. If left running like that for days or weeks then it would shorten the tube life.
  
 So how does it sound with no burn in????


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> They are not going to be heart running them over current for a few seconds. If left running like that for days or weeks then it would shorten the tube life.
> 
> So how does it sound with no burn in????


 
  
 I don't want to make any quick judgements.  After a few listening sessions I'll have a better feel for it.
  
 Two qualities that stand out immediately though:  it's more dynamically aggressive and there is more bass energy.  Some people will like the change, and others won't.  The difference seems pretty substantial to me, so I don't think I'm going to get my wish of having the overall sound stay the same as it was.
  
 There is an unnatural edge or raspiness to things right now and it gets congested during busy passages, so I think it needs to spend more time in the oven.  I will write real impressions in a week or so after I've had more time to listen and adjust.


----------



## 2359glenn

EL3N  Amp
  
 A new amp EL3N driving a EL3N this amp has not been burned in only been running since noon but I think
 it sounds as good as the 300B. Of course similar transformers. In a tube amp the output transformer has
 the biggest affect on the sound.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Very nice Glenn.  Looks great.
  
 Is that a type 80 rectifier?


----------



## raybone0566

Put me on the the list Glenn


----------



## Xcalibur255

Yeah this sounds harsh and glassy right now.  Very much like a new rectifier tube does.  They need 24 hours run time to settle I think.
  
 If these DON'T burn-in and change then I wouldn't be able to listen to this as it is right now.  I'll run the amp and see how/if it changes.


----------



## Khragon

Another great amp Glenn, congrats. Very cool that it sounds similar to 300B, EL3N are so much more affordable, great you are building these amps. Woo instead is building the WA22SE that is rumored to be $5k, still using 5U4 rectifier and 6sn7s, filling that amp up with top tubes will take the price to $6-7k no problem, insane.


----------



## Xcalibur255

khragon said:


> Another great amp Glenn, congrats. Very cool that it sounds similar to 300B, EL3N are so much more affordable, great you are building these amps. Woo instead is building the WA22SE that is rumored to be $5k, still using 5U4 rectifier and 6sn7s, filling that amp up with top tubes will take the price to $6-7k no problem, insane.


 
  
 Honestly the more I have learned about tubes the less sense the WA22 had made to me.  Both the design and the tube choices are so out of place for an amp that expensive.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Very nice Glenn.  Looks great.
> 
> Is that a type 80 rectifier?


 

 It is a AZ4 keeping all the tubes The European side contact.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

2359glenn said:


> EL3N  Amp
> 
> A new amp EL3N driving a EL3N this amp has not been burned in only been running since noon but I think
> it sounds as good as the 300B. Of course similar transformers. In a tube amp the output transformer has
> the biggest affect on the sound.


 
  
 How's the pricing going to be on this one?  I know you spent a mint on Lundhal transformers...


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Another great amp Glenn, congrats. Very cool that it sounds similar to 300B, EL3N are so much more affordable, great you are building these amps. Woo instead is building the WA22SE that is rumored to be $5k, still using 5U4 rectifier and 6sn7s, filling that amp up with top tubes will take the price to $6-7k no problem, insane.


 

 The transformers make the amp expensive. They are similar to the ones in your amp and the same price. Just a different primary impedance
 and different air gap in the core other wise the same.


----------



## 2359glenn

buttuglyjeff said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > EL3N  Amp
> ...


 

 I will have to sell it for a minimum of $2K


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn, will you be selling this unit you built?


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Glenn, will you be selling this unit you built?


 

 Maybe after I get parts to build another one.


----------



## 2359glenn

No tube rolling with this amp other then different brands or the older EL3 will work.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> No tube rolling with this amp other then different brands or the older EL3 will work.




Probably not the type of amp for gibosi hahaha but good to just plug in and play and not to be concerned about how tube a or tube b or tube c sounds in X, y or z combo


----------



## leftside

@2359glenn PM sent


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> EL3N  Amp
> 
> A new amp EL3N driving a EL3N this amp has not been burned in only been running since noon but I think
> it sounds as good as the 300B. Of course similar transformers. In a tube amp the output transformer has
> the biggest affect on the sound.


 
 Looks as great as I thought it would Glenn, can't wait to hear your impressions after it has burn in some


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > EL3N  Amp
> ...


 

 It is the same chassis as your amp small just heavy with the output transformers on it.
 Now Lucy took it over and is listening to Adele CD.


----------



## musicman59

Glenn,
What is the output power of this EL3N amp?


----------



## Rossliew

musicman59 said:


> Glenn,
> What is the output power of this EL3N amp?




Glenn mentioned in the Feliks Audio thread that's it's 1w into 32ohms in triode mode and 4w in pentode mode.


----------



## lukeap69

What are triode mode and pentode mode?


----------



## Xcalibur255

rossliew said:


> Glenn, will you be selling this unit you built?


 
  
 He built this one for himself, but Glenn is too nice for his own good sometimes so I'm betting it'll get sold to somebody so they won't have to wait as long.


----------



## Rossliew

To the best of my knowledge, triode mode is the typical sound of a lush, warm tube amp whilst pentode mode is probably more solid state like. I could be wrong lol


----------



## Xcalibur255

lukeap69 said:


> What are triode mode and pentode mode?


 
  
 That question is a lot like asking what the difference between a MOSFET and a JFET is, i.e. kind of hard to break down into a simple one line answer.  In my best attempt, it basically refers to two different types of tube designs that amplify the signal in different ways.  Pentodes overtook triodes in the later years of tube development because they achieve much better power output and are more efficient, but many people feel they don't have the same golden sound that makes tubes so enjoyable.  A pentode also requires some circuit design tricks such as feedback to control the distortion they produce and make them stable, which can sometimes negatively affect the sound quality.  These are generalizations, and honestly a well designed triode amp and a well designed pentode amp will both sound great if done right.  Some pentodes can be wired electrically to operate as a triode, such as the one being discussed here, and some amp builders setup the amp to operate in either mode to give the listener the option to choose for themselves.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > 2359glenn said:
> ...


 
 Very nice, I thought it would need a bigger chassis.


----------



## lukeap69

Thanks X for the explanation. I need to drink few more bottles of Heinekken in order to digest your post. 

In Glenn's EL3N amp, is there a switch to change from Pentode to Triode?


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> Thanks X for the explanation. I need to drink few more bottles of Heinekken in order to digest your post.
> 
> In Glenn's EL3N amp, is there a switch to change from Pentode to Triode?


 
  
 To give you a little more to think about, your C3g are pentodes. But as X notes, Glenn has wired them up as triodes in your amp (and mine).


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm sure there will be a switch.
  
 To give you even MORE to think about, according to some people the C3g is a superior tube when running in pentode mode.  The distortion is probably the best of any small signal tube ever made, but it only really achieves it running as a pentode.  Unfortunately the tube also produces a truckload of gain in pentode mode, it would honestly be too much, plus Glenn prefers the tube setup as a triode and I trust Glenn about a million times more than I trust myself (given that 99% of my knowledge of amps is second hand, where as Glenn's vast well of knowledge comes from actually building and designing them himself).
  
 Yamamoto Soundcraft makes a headphone amp running the C3m as a pentode, and it is a single gain stage amp.  The C3m is the only signal tube the amp has.


----------



## Khragon

Didn't Glenn at one time thinking of building a pentode c3g only amp? Maybe even an otl?


----------



## Xcalibur255

khragon said:


> Didn't Glenn at one time thinking of building a pentode c3g only amp? Maybe even an otl?


 
  
 Yeah he talked about doing a design like that Yamamoto.  I still want to see a OTA (one tube amplifier) design using Emission Lab's self-designed DHT series of tubes; the 20A, 20B and 30A.  The 30A seems to have enough gain to make a single gain stage amp possible, and it would sound amazing I'm sure.


----------



## lukeap69




----------



## Xcalibur255

Update time on the HEXFREDs.
  
 I didn't want to leave off with my original negative sounding post (which wasn't my intention) without offering an update.  The amp has been on all day, so they've run for over 9 hours now.  I can say with certainly these diodes need time to burn in, the sound changes quite noticeably and has settled down a lot now.  I discovered I also had to play around with the plate current on the 45s since the HEXFREDs negligible voltage drop means the amp's operating point is different now.
  
 Glenn will tell me I'm full of it when I say this, but I can hear a change in sound from this amp as little as a 0.25mA change in bias.  I had found the ideal operating point for the globes previously was 35mA, but with the SS diodes it needs to actually be at a full 36mA to sound right.  I started out this afternoon at 34mA which partly explains the harshness in the treble.  With this amp the more you are below the ideal plate current the more harsh sounding the treble gets.  As you get closer to the idea operating point things like sibilance and glassiness start to diminish and finally disappear when you get the bias exactly right.
  
 I increased the current in 0.25mA increments and listened to a test track each time.  With each tiny increase I could hear a shift in sound that was identifiable in seconds.  Once I hit a full 36mA the hardness in the treble almost completely disappeared, but a tiny amount remains.  I suspect the ideal operating point is actually a bit higher, probably around 36.5mA, but I don't feel comfortable running the globes that hard.  This is the first time I've even pushed them to 36.
  
 Anyway, at this operating point the HEXFREDs sound quite similar to tube diodes, with small but identifiable improvements in small detail retrieval, imaging preciseness, and transient definition.  In short everything took a small step up in realism.  The bad news is, tone colors are not quite as good as they are with tube diodes, at least not right now.  It's entirely possible the HEXFREDs are not fully burned in and will still improve, but as things stand right now I find the tone a little bit white-washed souding which makes the musical presentation more dry and less emotionally expressive.  It doesn't sound bad per se, but the beautiful tone is what makes this amp special.  Without it there is basically no difference between it and a good SS amp frankly which defeats the purpose.
  
 I'm hoping with some more run time the HEXFREDs tone colors bloom some.  I've had 6BY5 tubes go through a break-in phase where they sounded white washed in tone too, so I'm operating under the hope that a few days from now things will sound amazing.  If it doesn't get there, then I have a choice to make.  Ultimately being drawn into the music is all that matters.  Annoyances are what they are, but I have connected very deeply with this amp in past listening sessions and whatever tubes or equipment needs to be in it to make that happen more in the future is what will be, even if that means putting the humming buzzing microphonic tubes back in it.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> EL3N  Amp
> 
> A new amp EL3N driving a EL3N this amp has not been burned in only been running since noon but I think
> it sounds as good as the 300B. Of course similar transformers. In a tube amp the output transformer has
> the biggest affect on the sound.


 
  
  
 Beautiful amp, well done Glenn!!!!


----------



## Khragon

xcalibur255 said:


> Update time on the HEXFREDs.
> .... Glenn will tell me I'm full of it when I say this, but I can hear a change in sound from this amp as little as a 0.25mA change in bias.  I had found the ideal operating point for the globes previously was 35mA, but with the SS diodes it needs to actually be at a full 36mA to sound right.  I started out this afternoon at 34mA which partly explains the harshness in the treble.  With this amp the more you are below the ideal plate current the more harsh sounding the treble gets.  As you get closer to the idea operating point things like sibilance and glassiness start to diminish and finally disappear when you get the bias exactly right.
> ....


 
 I'll say it for Glenn... you're full of it 
  
 Congrats on having hearing that can detect minute differences! 
 I'm having trouble hearing differences even in any increment, 60mA sound just the same as 80mA to me, maybe now I need to start to really listen.


----------



## rosgr63

Tyrell you might have to experiment with different type vintage stock 45's.
 If you get your heater voltage changed you can enter the world of the VT-52's..


----------



## Xcalibur255

khragon said:


> I'll say it for Glenn... you're full of it
> 
> Congrats on having hearing that can detect minute differences!
> I'm having trouble hearing differences even in any increment, 60mA sound just the same as 80mA to me, maybe now I need to start to really listen.


 
  
 Oh, it's both a blessing and a curse.  
  
 For context, Glenn told me once privately that a 1mA change in bias wouldn't be audible.  Even at the time I felt like arguing about that but I didn't.  It's also possible that 45 tubes are a lot more sensitive about their ideal operating point than a 300B is.  After all there is a pretty large different in both current and voltage for your amp Khargon, the degrees of change are different for you because the scale is different too.  Your playground is from 50-100mA........... mine is from 30-36mA. 
  
 I need to point out, I wasn't expecting or looking for this change so I want to think it's not my own internal confirmation bias at work here making me hear what I wanted to hear.  My motivation for the small increases in the plate current stems more from not wanting to "hotrod" my precious globes.  When I bumped it just a hair from 35 to 35.25 I hit play and could instantly tell it sounded a little different.  I did the same thing for 35.5 and 35.75 and could hear a shift in presentation each time.  I'm honestly floored by this and it kind of speaks to the incredible resolution Glenn's amp has combined with the Schiit Yggdrasil.  When you find yourself having thoughts like "you picked the wrong filter screen for your microphone" while listening to a recording you know there can't be many rungs left on the ladder from what you're currently standing.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks for the detailed impressions with the hexfreds, Tyrell. Can't wait to get mine for the OTL.


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Thanks for the detailed impressions with the hexfreds, Tyrell. Can't wait to get mine for the OTL.


 

 I will have yours made next week HEXFREDS to 5U4 adapter.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> I will have yours made next week HEXFREDS to 5U4 adapter.




Woohoo!! Thanks Glenn. I will take two, please


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > Didn't Glenn at one time thinking of building a pentode c3g only amp? Maybe even an otl?
> ...


 

 I can do this with the EL3N in triode it has a gain of 20 and more in pentode. The problem with EML 20 and 30 series tubes is what if they go out of business.
 If your DAC has a high output the EL3N can produce 4.5 watts output with 4.2 volts input. So with a DAC with 4 volt output will be able to drive a EL3N
 to full power.  A EL3N with Lundahl transformers will probably sound better then the Yamamoto.
 I would build one but $900 for transformers is allot for me to spend again.
 I have a SV572-3 amp I don't use because Sevetlana went out of business. A shame this tube sounded good with thorated tungsten goodness like the
 Elrog 300Bs. The SV572-3 would put out 21 watts with 1100 volts on the plate as much as a 211.


----------



## 2359glenn

Now I am thinking to make it a one tube amp when in pentode really to much gain in pentode mode anyway.
 So if in pentode it would be just 1 EL3N per channel with no coupling capacitors. Just the tube and output transformers.
 Only one day old and I am thinking about modifying it already.
 It would save me $900 on transformers to make a one tube amp to try.


----------



## Oskari

2359glenn said:


> I have a SV572-3 amp I don't use because Sevetlana went out of business. A shame this tube sounded good with thorated tungsten goodness like the Elrog 300Bs. The SV572-3 would put out 21 watts with 1100 volts on the plate as much as a 211.




The SV572-3 was made by Ryazan for Svetlana (http://www.vaco.ryazan.ru/HTMLs/oscillating-lamp/SV572-3.htm). I don't know whether Ryazan still makes them but you can still get them.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

xcalibur255 said:


> He built this one for himself, but Glenn is too nice for his own good sometimes so I'm betting it'll get sold to somebody so they won't have to wait as long.


 
  
 I kinda hope not.  I'd really like to hear some of @2359glenn impressions vs his next 300B amp.  It would help so many if he uses a reference headphone like the HD800...


----------



## 2359glenn

buttuglyjeff said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > He built this one for himself, but Glenn is too nice for his own good sometimes so I'm betting it'll get sold to somebody so they won't have to wait as long.
> ...


 

 That is the headphone I use HD800 & HD650


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Now I am thinking to make it a one tube amp when in pentode really to much gain in pentode mode anyway.
> So if in pentode it would be just 1 EL3N per channel with no coupling capacitors. Just the tube and output transformers.
> Only one day old and I am thinking about modifying it already.
> It would save me $900 on transformers to make a one tube amp to try.




$900 is significant, go for it Glenn . If the one tube amp still sounds like 300B, you got a hit there, best bang for the bucks ever.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Now I am thinking to make it a one tube amp when in pentode really to much gain in pentode mode anyway.
> ...


 

 I am going to modify the amp I have put in a rotary switch. In triode it will have the driver tubes and in pentode it will just be the output tube.
 This way I don't have to buy another pair of transformers. A deacent switch about a $100 allot better then $900.
 If it sounds good I can make one tube per channel amps.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> .........I discovered I also had to play around with the plate current on the 45s since the HEXFREDs negligible voltage drop means the amp's operating point is different now....


 
  
 I have been wondering about how the operating points in my OTL are affected by changing rectifiers...
  
 Specifically, Glenn, should I assume that when you designed my OTL with the original transformer and 5-volt rectifier, you used the 3DG4 as your reference? And as it is my understanding that the 3DG4 has a voltage drop of about 25, did you then factor in a voltage drop of 25 to achieve the desired operating points?
  
 And further, when you designed Whirlwind's OTL with the upgraded transformer and PY500s, should I assume that you factored in the PY500's much lower voltage drop to achieve the designed operating points?
  
 If so, am I correct in thinking that a voltage drop of about 25 is the sweet spot in my OTL? And further, I wonder how significant a difference in voltage drop of 15, 20 or 25 might be? (However, in my experience, 5-volt rectifier tubes with the same voltage drop, but manufactured in different factories, typically sound quite different, whereas it seems that PY500 from different factories sound virtually the same, so perhaps as voltage drop increases, other factors come into play as well?)
  
 Very specifically, if I am correct in thinking that different voltage drops were incorporated into the design of these two OTLs, I am wondering how similar Whirlwind's amp with PY500 and mine with HEXFRED might sound with identical drivers and output tubes?
  
 (And I also wonder how my "intuitive" understanding of voltage drop and operating points compares to the reality...


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > .........I discovered I also had to play around with the plate current on the 45s since the HEXFREDs negligible voltage drop means the amp's operating point is different now....
> ...


 

 The original transformers put out 265 volts or 530 volt center tapped and Whirlwind's Lundahl puts out 250 volts or 500 center tapped.
 So it is 15 volts lower to compensate for the better rectifier.
  The OTL is self bias so it will compensate for the higher voltage.
 But will still sound different.
 All the 5Volt rectifiers even with the same number have different voltage drop. The 42EC4 has such a low voltage drop and can handle
 1amp that you cant here a difference between them. Almost like having SS rectifiers.
 The 3DG4 has a 25 volt drop at 350ma but it will be less at a lower current draw.
 So when people say that such and such rectifier sounds great in there amp it means nothing if you have a different amp.
 The current draw will be different so the voltage drop will be different.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> I am going to modify the amp I have put in a rotary switch. In triode it will have the driver tubes and in pentode it will just be the output tube.
> This way I don't have to buy another pair of transformers. A deacent switch about a $100 allot better then $900.
> If it sounds good I can make one tube per channel amps.


 
  
 Hi Glenn.
  
 Given the stellar sound from one EL3N per channel driving my GECs in the Elise, I suspect that your amp being specifically configured for it will be _extremely_ good! And will be interesting to see how the EL3N sounds in pentode mode as opposed to triode-strapped...GREAT WORK!


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I am going to modify the amp I have put in a rotary switch. In triode it will have the driver tubes and in pentode it will just be the output tube.
> ...


 

 The interesting thing about the EL3N is the impedance of the load/transformer stays the same in triode and pentode.
 This makes it easy to work with. It definatly has more gain in pentode it sounds a little diferent I think triode sounds
 better in the output stage. Have to give it more listening to but I think the EL3N has enough gain in pentode to make
 a one tube per chanel amp.
 Less is more the less parts the better it sounds.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> The interesting thing about the EL3N is the impedance of the load/transformer stays the same in triode and pentode.
> This makes it easy to work with. It definatly has more gain in pentode it sounds a little diferent I think triode sounds
> better in the output stage. Have to give it more listening to but I think the EL3N has enough gain in pentode to make
> a one tube per chanel amp.
> Less is more the less parts the better it sounds.


 
  
 I too am a firm believer in "less is more"...although the Feliks-Audio "Elise" guys found that using 2 6SN7s (total) gave better results overall than just one...interesting time ahead indeed for you, Glenn.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> EL3N  Amp
> 
> A new amp EL3N driving a EL3N this amp has not been burned in only been running since noon but I think
> it sounds as good as the 300B. Of course similar transformers. In a tube amp the output transformer has
> the biggest affect on the sound.


 
  
 A stellar looking amp Glenn. It's beautiful and I'm sure it will sound great. 
  
 Sound as good as your 300B creation? That's just amazing. This is going to sell very well.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> The interesting thing about the EL3N is the impedance of the load/transformer stays the same in triode and pentode.
> This makes it easy to work with. It definatly has more gain in pentode it sounds a little diferent *I think triode sounds*
> *better in the output stage. *Have to give it more listening to but I think the EL3N has enough gain in pentode to make
> a one tube per chanel amp.
> Less is more the less parts the better it sounds.


 
  
 From what I have read the EL3N triode has curves similar to the 45 and 50 tube (i.e. in good company) and the pentode, well not so much but decent.  Hopefully there will be suitable gain and the minimal parts will more than offset the slightly lesser curves.  The real acid test... let Lucy audition with her Adele CD! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Will be very interested in the results!
  
 BTW, for your output transformers in this type of config. do you run around 7K primary and multiple secondary taps (i.e. 600 ohm, 32 ohm etc.) to support different headphone impedances?


----------



## TonyNewman

untilthen said:


> ...
> Sound as good as your 300B creation? That's just amazing. This is going to sell very well.


 
  
 Where's the love for the 300B sound?
  
 I kinda get it - the decent 300B tubes are damn expensive and require a lot supporting infrastructure (driver tubes and hefty transformers). The payoff is in the raw output power (around 8W - enough to drive even the HE6 well, and anything else effortlessly), and the glorious rich mids of some 300Bs (Takatsuki, WE300B and maybe some others).


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> Where's the love for the 300B sound?
> 
> I kinda get it - the decent 300B tubes are damn expensive and require a lot supporting infrastructure (driver tubes and hefty transformers). The payoff is in the raw output power (around 8W - enough to drive even the HE6 well, and anything else effortlessly), and the glorious rich mids of some 300Bs (Takatsuki, WE300B and maybe some others).


 
 Still there, I love my Glenn 300B... but 90% of 300B sound for 25% of the price, I'll get one for the office 
 300B still got more potential since more modern tubes are available for tube rolling


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > Where's the love for the 300B sound?
> ...


 

 Not quite 25% more like 50% but the tubes are allot cheaper. It still uses Lundahl transformers.


----------



## raybone0566

Fantastic looking amp Glenn.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> I have been wondering about how the operating points in my OTL are affected by changing rectifiers...


 
  
 When you change the rectifier you are indeed changing the overall operating point of the amp, that's why you get a slightly different sound.  You are positioning the output tubes in a different position on their "curves" if that makes sense.  If you move the tube into a part of its operating range where it's less linear you get that romantic sound, and moving it back into a more linear part makes it sound more transparent. 
  
 In your case the bias gets set automatically so the amp will adjust itself when voltage goes up or down, the relationship between the voltage and current is visualized by the curve graphs for a tube.  Changing these values changes other things too such as resistance so there are multiple variables in play affecting the behavior of the output stage.
  
 For people who don't have auto-biasing amps it's important to have a rough understanding of everything otherwise you'll never get the amp sounding its best.  For a given voltage there is usually one ideal "correct" current value, anything else just reduces linearity and increases distortion.
  
 This is my understanding based on years of trying to learn.  If I'm wrong about anything hopefully somebody will correct me.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> The original transformers put out 265 volts or 530 volt center tapped and Whirlwind's Lundahl puts out 250 volts or 500 center tapped.
> So it is 15 volts lower to compensate for the better rectifier.
> The OTL is self bias so it will compensate for the higher voltage.
> But will still sound different.
> ...


 
  


xcalibur255 said:


> When you change the rectifier you are indeed changing the overall operating point of the amp, that's why you get a slightly different sound.  You are positioning the output tubes in a different position on their "curves" if that makes sense.  If you move the tube into a part of its operating range where it's less linear you get that romantic sound, and moving it back into a more linear part makes it sound more transparent.
> 
> In your case the bias gets set automatically so the amp will adjust itself when voltage goes up or down, the relationship between the voltage and current is visualized by the curve graphs for a tube.  Changing these values changes other things too such as resistance so there are multiple variables in play affecting the behavior of the output stage.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks guys. I think my understanding, while still pretty blurry, might be just a bit more clear. At the least, I think I understand that if both my and Whirlwind's amp had the same rectifier, say a HEXFRED, they would still sound different due to the fact that the transformers are different. That is, the two different transformers, one putting out 250 volts, and the other, 265 volts, will position the output tubes at different positions on their curve. And thus a different sound.
  
 And it is very interesting to learn that rectifier tubes with the same tube number may well have a different voltage drop. So for example, even though the commonly quoted voltage drop for a 5U4G is 44 at 225ma, the actual voltage drop may well be different between 5U4G produced by different manufacturers. This certainly helps to explain why the 5U4G all seem to sound different.
  
 Anyway, while the HEXFRED is still in my amp, I haven't had much time for music the last week or so, and therefore, haven't been able to compare it to my favorite 5-volt tubes. Hope to have more time next week.
  
 Cheers


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > tonynewman said:
> ...


 
  
 I think this amp is a great option, Glenn....I am not interested in powering speakers with it, but damn....this should be wonderful option for planar headphones as well as the HD800 and still have the tube sound and uses the Lundahl transformers, that is a win, win....I like what I have heard from the EL3N as driver tubes in my OTL amp and they are not running at what the tube is capable of......plus I already have a couple of pair of NOS EL3N hanging out here, waiting for use.
  
 I also love the look of the mesh rectifier


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> I think this amp is a great option, Glenn....I am not interested in powering speakers with it, but damn....this should be wonderful option for planar headphones as well as the HD800 and still have the tube sound and uses the Lundahl transformers, that is a win, win....I like what I have heard from the EL3N as driver tubes in my OTL amp and they are not running at what the tube is capable of......plus I already have a couple of pair of NOS EL3N hanging out here, waiting for use.
> 
> I also love the look of the mesh rectifier




So are you getting one for yourself Joe?


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Thanks guys. I think my understanding, while still pretty blurry, might be just a bit more clear. At the least, I think I understand that if both my and Whirlwind's amp had the same rectifier, say a HEXFRED, they would still sound different due to the fact that the transformers are different. That is, the two different transformers, one putting out 250 volts, and the other, 265 volts, will position the output tubes at different positions on their curve. And thus a different sound.
> 
> And it is very interesting to learn that rectifier tubes with the same tube number may well have a different voltage drop. So for example, even though the commonly quoted voltage drop for a 5U4G is 44 at 225ma, the actual voltage drop may well be different between 5U4G produced by different manufacturers. This certainly helps to explain why the 5U4G all seem to sound different.
> 
> ...


 

 The variation from one 5U4 to the next should be fairly small.  Enough that it would probably be possible to hear that difference in some cases, but not a big change like switching from a 5U4 to a different tube type.  The thing that people tend to overlook more often is the fact that the specified voltage drop on the data sheet is cited for a *specific load* and this is actually represented as a curve (like most things with tubes).  For example my amp's rectifiers drop about 25 volts according to the data sheet, but that's when 175mA of current is being drawn.  The actual current draw the tube sees in my amp is 112mA maximum and that's handled by two tubes with a total capacity of 350mA.  So these tubes are not being stressed very much.  The actual voltage drop in my amp is probably only about 10-15 volts I'm guessing.  The closer you are to the rectifier's maximum output current draw, the more the voltage sags.  Whether or not the tube is capacitor or choke loaded makes a difference too if things weren't already confusing enough.  
  
 The OTL is a current hungry amp, so voltage sag is more prominent when going from one rectifier type to another due to the heavy load being put on the tubes.  Amps that are current hungry "respond" to rectifier rolling more noticeably than amps with a more petite appetite because the voltage drop is more prominent.
  
 This is why the big prominent Rectifier Tube Rolling Thread that dubstepgirl made being on the front page all the time bugs me so much.  That thread is misleading so many people because they don't understand the impressions they are reading are only valid when using the specific amplifier in question from her testing.  Those guys who all flocked to whatever tube she thought sounded best will go out and buy one for themselves and may very likely get a substantially different result in their own amp.
  
 Of course you can't actually post something like this in that thread because I fear fire and pitchforks just as much as the next sane person.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I think this amp is a great option, Glenn....I am not interested in powering speakers with it, but damn....this should be wonderful option for planar headphones as well as the HD800 and still have the tube sound and uses the Lundahl transformers, that is a win, win....I like what I have heard from the EL3N as driver tubes in my OTL amp and they are not running at what the tube is capable of......plus I already have a couple of pair of NOS EL3N hanging out here, waiting for use.
> ...


 
 Well, I am very interested.
  
 Glenn said he will be tweaking the amp, so will wait and see how it goes.....I am sure Glenn will get it sorted as to how the amp sounds it's best.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Well, I am very interested.
> 
> Glenn said he will be tweaking the amp, so will wait and see how it goes.....I am sure Glenn will get it sorted as to how the amp sounds it's best.




And perhaps cheaper...


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> .....The closer you are to the rectifier's maximum output current draw, the more the voltage sags.  Whether or not the tube is capacitor or choke loaded makes a difference too if things weren't already confusing enough.
> 
> The OTL is a current hungry amp, so voltage sag is more prominent when going from one rectifier type to another due to the heavy load being put on the tubes.  Amps that are current hungry "respond" to rectifier rolling more noticeably than amps with a more petite appetite because the voltage drop is more prominent.


 
  
 And assuming I understand this correctly...
  
 Running a quad of 6BX7 as output tubes, instead of a pair of 6AS7, lowers the amount of current draw by about 80ma. So the amp draws roughly 140ma running 6BX7 compared to roughly 220ma running 6AS7. As most of the tube rectifiers I use are rated at about 250ma, it seems to me that using a quad of 6BX7 results in a good bit more headroom for these rectifiers and I would guess a somewhat lower voltage drop.
  
 However, given that amp sounds so different with the 6BX7 compared to the 6AS7, I think there is no way I can determine how much, if any, of the difference I hear might be due solely to a lower voltage drop....
  
 Anyway, this is very useful and interesting stuff. Thanks again.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Right on.  Having more headroom is nice, but the only real benefit is for the longevity of the rectifier itself.  I think there is a small benefit in reduced switching noise too with the tube being under less stress, but we're getting into odds and ends at this point.
  
 The major take away point of all of this is basically:  you should hear less significant "swings" in sound quality when switching between different types of rectifiers when you are using your 6BX7 setup because of the less demanding load.  A 5U4G can and probably is dropping more than 50 volts when supplying 6AS7 tubes, with the 3DG4 in place it's probably around 20.  Swap in those 6BX7 and I would guess, very roughly, that the drop is around 30 volts with a 5U4G and in the area of 15 or less with the 3DG4.  So you have a spread of 30 volts difference between the rectifiers in the 6AS7 scenario, and a spread of about 15 with the 6BX7.  Using this logic rolling a 3DG4 in while using your 6BX7 should produce a more mild change than it would if you were using the 6AS7.
  
 edit:  I have this feeling I'm remembering the values for the 3DG4 wrong, but the example is still fine for the purposes of illustrating the concept.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Right on.  Having more headroom is nice, but the only real benefit is for the longevity of the rectifier itself.  I think there is a small benefit in reduced switching noise too with the tube being under less stress, but we're getting into odds and ends at this point.
> 
> The major take away point of all of this is basically:  you should hear less significant "swings" in sound quality when switching between different types of rectifiers when you are using your 6BX7 setup because of the less demanding load.  A 5U4G can and probably is dropping more than 50 volts when supplying 6AS7 tubes, with the 3DG4 in place it's probably around 20.  Swap in those 6BX7 and I would guess, very roughly, that the drop is around 30 volts with a 5U4G and in the area of 15 or less with the 3DG4.  So you have a spread of 30 volts difference between the rectifiers in the 6AS7 scenario, and a spread of about 15 with the 6BX7.  Using this logic rolling a 3DG4 in while using your 6BX7 should produce a more mild change than it would if you were using the 6AS7.
> 
> edit:  I have this feeling I'm remembering the values for the 3DG4 wrong, but the example is still fine for the purposes of illustrating the concept.


 

 With the HEXFREDS there will be 1 volt drop no mater what the draw. Rated at 6 Amps/6000ma at 1200 volts.
 This is headroom like no audio tube rectifier.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> With the HEXFREDS there will be 1 volt drop no mater what the draw. Rated at 6 Amps/6000ma at 1200 volts.
> This is headroom like no audio tube rectifier.


 
  
 I can definitely hear the difference.  The resolution is the best I have ever heard, and I was super happy with the amp's performance in this regard beforehand.  The level of detail is downright scary sometimes. 
  
 I'm not convinced it's a sound everybody will love, but some people certainly will.  I have a gut feeling that those guys who don't like to use the 3DG4 in their OTLs are going to have mixed feelings about what the HEXFRED does to the sound of an amp.  The analogy is rough, but fair enough I think.  Romantic is the last word that comes to mind when I listen to this setup.  It absolutely does sound good, but it's not the traditional kind of "good" that people expect from a tube amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > With the HEXFREDS there will be 1 volt drop no mater what the draw. Rated at 6 Amps/6000ma at 1200 volts.
> ...


 

 So are you going to leave them in?? I can add resistors to give voltage drop and sag to act like a tube?
 I think that defeats the reason for using them. But they won't be noisy like your 6BY5.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> So are you going to leave them in?? I can add resistors to give voltage drop and sag to act like a tube?
> I think that defeats the reason for using them. But they won't be noisy like your 6BY5.


 
  
 That's not something I would personally ask for, but I could see other people being interested in the idea.  Target the voltage to be the same as what their tube rectifier would have delivered.
  
 I have no plans to take them out for now.  I don't believe in forming quick opinions anymore, I want to listen to it like this over a period of some months.  The reason I posted the impressions I did so soon was just to give people an idea.  If the sound changes or my overall opinion changes I will update everybody.  I also don't think they're quite done breaking in yet.  My hope is that the tone improves, that's the only thing I don't like.  Everything else is great, there's no such thing as too much resolution IMO.  Not everybody here has the same priorities that I do and that's kind of what I was expressing in my earlier comment.  Personally even with the tone issue I quite like the experience I'm getting from the HEXFREDs at the moment.


----------



## gibosi

HEXFRED in an OTL....
  
 To begin, I haven't had the HEXFRED long enough to really understand what I am hearing. So you should consider these comments as nothing more than first impressions. Worse, I have also been trying to compare two drivers, a European Philips 6SN7GT and an ECC40, both manufactured around 1955 in the Eindhoven factory. Anyway, first I compared the the 6SN7GT and ECC40 using only the HEXFRED, and on the chance anyone is interested, I prefer the ECC40.
  
 Next the rectifiers. To date, I have settled on two standard rectifiers, a Cossor 53KU, which many call a "Fat GZ37", and a GEC U18/20, which is a 4-volt version of their U52. In a nutshell, the Cossor has more bass presence while the GEC has more airy treble. I tend to prefer the Cossor with brighter drivers/output tubes and the GEC with darker ones.
  
 I kept the quad of 1953 GE 6BX7 as output tubes and the ECC40 as the driver, and rolled in the U18/20. And the difference was very noticeable. The HEXFRED has more bass presence and the midrange seems a bit more full and forward. And correspondingly, the U18/20 has less bass presence, with thinner and more airy highs, again the standard GEC sound. But going by memory, compared to the GEC, the HEXFRED seemed to sound something like the Cossor. So I was intrigued....
  
 And yes, after rolling in the Cossor, I feel that the tonality of the HEXFRED and Cossor are very similar. As expected, I think the HEXFRED is faster, with a bit more PRAT, but to my ears, this is pretty subtle. And again, I haven't had enough time to try to compare such things as imaging, detail retrieval and transients, much less something like liquidity, but I don't feel that I am missing anything with the HEXFRED.
  
 Again, I think I am going to need a good long time to truly understand the sound of the HEXFRED compared to the Cossor. But given that it seems to compare so well with the Cossor, I wanted to report these very early impressions. In my opinion, so far, the HEXFRED is an incredible bargain for $20 plus shipping. (Until Glenn decides to raise the price! lol )
  
 Oh, and I should also point out, that for those using 6AS7s in their OTL, the Cossor may well sound slightly different than it does with a quad of 6BL7/6BX7, given the larger voltage drop....
  
 Anyway, hope this is useful...


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> HEXFRED in an OTL....
> 
> To begin, I haven't had the HEXFRED long enough to really understand what I am hearing. So you should consider these comments as nothing more than first impressions. Worse, I have also been trying to compare two drivers, a European Philips 6SN7GT and an ECC40, both manufactured around 1955 in the Eindhoven factory. Anyway, first I compared the the 6SN7GT and ECC40 using only the HEXFRED, and on the chance anyone is interested, I prefer the ECC40.
> 
> ...


 

 Have you tried an az1 rectifier w/5y3 adapter?


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> Have you tried an az1 rectifier w/5y3 adapter?


 
  
 No I haven't. I am not familiar with this rectifier, but checking the datasheets, I do not believe the AZ1 can provide enough current to run the OTL. If I understand correctly, at 300V, it can provide at most 100ma. Even running a quad of 6BX7, rather then a pair of 6AS7, this is not enough.....


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> jhljhl said:
> 
> 
> > Have you tried an az1 rectifier w/5y3 adapter?
> ...


 

 No you will not be able to use the AZ1 in your OTL.
 I switched to the AZ4 in the new EL3N amp less voltage drop another 4 volt rectifier with a crazy side pin base.


----------



## gibosi

The AZ4 puts out 200ma? So perhaps this would work with a quad of 6BL7/6BX7?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> The AZ4 puts out 200ma? So perhaps this would work with a quad of 6BL7/6BX7?


 

 It would need a crazy adapter but you could wire it to the 3.3 volt for the 3DG4 that is more like 3.5.
 not sure it would be worth it though.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Put a dozen hours or so on those HEXFRED doides gibosi then ear test them again.  The level of detail you'll be hearing will unhinge your jaw for a moment.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> It would need a crazy adapter but you could wire it to the 3.3 volt for the 3DG4 that is more like 3.5.
> not sure it would be worth it though.


 
  
 I appears that the 1861 is identical to the AZ4 except that it uses an European B4 base, the same as the FW4/500. And as you know, it just so happens that I have such an adapter. So I think I will give one of these a try.   
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_1861.html


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> Put a dozen hours or so on those HEXFRED doides gibosi then ear test them again.  The level of detail you'll be hearing will unhinge your jaw for a moment.


 
  
 Will do. 
  
 From your experience, it would appear that in my OTL, after it is burnt-in properly, the HEXFRED will give me the tonality of the Cossor 53KU, which I really like, and a level of detail perhaps surpassing the GEC U52 / U18/20. For about $20. Not bad. 
  
 But for now, I have four 6BX7 actually manufactured by Tung-Sol that I am itching to try.


----------



## lukeap69

Will the HEXFRED (not the Flintstone) work on my OTL @2359glenn?


----------



## TonyNewman

Bit of an upgrade on my rig. HD30 DAC wasn't quite what I was looking for, so I sold all of my internal organs and went for an Uber DAC - Bricasti M1.
  

  
 Combined with the Glenn 300B the sound is already a step up from the HD30, but a little raw as this DAC is fresh out of the box.
  
 Need to put a bunch of hours on this thing and see where it takes me. Also need to sort out my rack tomorrow.
  
 EDIT - been running the new DAC for about 2 hours now, and already I am hearing quite a jump in SQ. For those considering going to an Uber DAC, if the rest of your rig can make use of the improved SQ, and your wallet can survive the hefty pounding involved, I highly recommend it. I am just about creaming my panties right now, and this DAC is only going to get better over the next few hundred hours.
  
 My first decent DAC - the Auralic Vega - was a good unit. It did most things right, particularly in EXACT mode via USB. But, and for me this was a big "but", the treble could go "glassy" and/or "steely" too often for my tastes. It also was a tad bright to my ears. There was never any confusion that you were listening to a digital source with the Vega.
  
 My second DAC, the Hegel HD30, is technically marvelous. Great sound stage, detailed, fast, excellent dynamics ... by any *technical *measure this is an uber DAC. But, the sound has a hard edge to it that is OK for floor standers, but for headphones it becomes harsh and fatiguing. Some folks say that is a feature with the AKM 4490 chip - "Velvet Sound" it is NOT. I can't say if it is the implementation or the chipset - and really I don't care. The sound irritates my gonads after about 20 minutes to the point where I can't stand it anymore with any headphone I posses. As a HeadFi listening experience, give me the Vega any day.
  
 My third attempt at an "endgame" DAC is the Bricasti M1, and so far it looks like a winner. I am getting all the great technical things that the HD30 delivered, but without the hard edge. There is a touch of warmth and musicality there. Early days, but this is solid DAC that does just about everything pretty damn well so far. If it can smooth out a little over the next few days/weeks it will be impressive indeed. Other worthy contenders in this price range - MSB Analog / Meitner MA1 / BADA2 ... etc.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> Bit of an upgrade on my rig. HD30 DAC wasn't quite what I was looking for, so I sold all of my internal organs and went for an Uber DAC - Bricasti M1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice DAC over my price range.
 I see you are using the RCA PY500s now probably less likely to blow up.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Nice DAC over my price range.
> I see you are using the RCA PY500s now probably less likely to blow up.


 
  
 Kinda disappointed that the Telefunken PY500s imploded on me. Telefunken usually make nice gear.
  
 Chucking that much cash at a DAC is kinda nuts - a more rational mind would have replaced a car or taken a chunk off the mortgage .. etc, but I need my music and the HD30 just outright sucked for me.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Wow, a dual mono DAC!!!


----------



## TonyNewman

buttuglyjeff said:


> Wow, a dual mono DAC!!!


 
  
 My HD30 is also dual mono and it sounds excremental compared to the Bricasti (or Vega before that).
  
 I don't know how they did it, but the Bricasti folks have made a DAC that doesn't sound 'digital' at all, if that makes any sense.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> But for now, I have four 6BX7 actually manufactured by Tung-Sol that I am itching to try.


 
  
 Really?  If you have time you should snap a photo of them and post it.  I thought only Sylvania and GE made these tubes, if you're sure Tung Sol was the real manufacturer then you've probably found something pretty rare.


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> Bit of an upgrade on my rig. HD30 DAC wasn't quite what I was looking for, so I sold all of my internal organs and went for an Uber DAC - Bricasti M1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congratulations on your new DAC Tony!
 Did you buy it new? Is it the SE version?
 I bought the M1 around 2 or 3 years ago (not long after it came out) and became good friend with Brian Zolner (Bricasti's President). he any I went though a few iterations of the M1 with changes he and I discussed mainly on power supplies, internal wiring, I guess he calls me his "power user". I liked this DAC so much that I bought a second one for my other system.
  
 Now in my main system not only have the M1 SE but also a pair of the M28 manoblocks. These amps are monsters! They replaced a pair of McIntosh MC601. The M28 are driven directly by the M1 SE and my system has never sounded this good! 

  

  
 Her is the new M12. It is basically an M1 with an analog board to allow for analog inputs too.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> Really?  If you have time you should snap a photo of them and post it.  I thought only Sylvania and GE made these tubes, if you're sure Tung Sol was the real manufacturer then you've probably found something pretty rare.


 
  
 They are pretty rare. GE 6BX7 always have the sandblasted tube-type and dots and RCA always have side getters, so it comes down to distinguishing between Sylvania and Tung-Sol.
  
 The first picture is Sylvania. Notice that the top mica has 8 points and the bottom mica has 12, equally spaced. Also notice that the heat radiators are quite tall and open on two sides.
  

  
 The next picture, Tung-Sol. Both the top and bottom micas have 8 points, equally spaced. Also note that the heat radiators are much shorter than the Sylvania and are either enclosed on 4 sides, or in the example below, enclosed on three sides.
  
 All the TS I have seen have halo getters and my guess is that they did not begin to manufacture this tube until the 1960s. Prior to that time, they simply rebranded Sylvania and GE production.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> Congratulations on your new DAC Tony!
> Did you buy it new? Is it the SE version?


 
  
 Standard unit - fresh from the factory as of 1 week ago.
  
 The sound has all the technical good stuff of the Vega/HD30, but doesn't sound "digital". That's quite impressive and enjoyable.


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> Standard unit - fresh from the factory as of 1 week ago.
> 
> The sound has all the technical good stuff of the Vega/HD30, but doesn't sound "digital". That's quite impressive and enjoyable.



Yes, Brian just told he shipped it to your dealer a few days ago.
If you have the chance listen to it driving the M28. You will be amazed.


----------



## 2359glenn

musicman59 said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > Bit of an upgrade on my rig. HD30 DAC wasn't quite what I was looking for, so I sold all of my internal organs and went for an Uber DAC - Bricasti M1.
> ...


 
 Tony you bought the M28s too?


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> All the TS I have seen have halo getters and my guess is that they did not begin to manufacture this tube until the 1960s. Prior to that time, they simply rebranded Sylvania and GE production.


 
  
 Are you sure they're not both Sylvanias and just represent variants?  Historically Tung Sol was reducing the number of tubes it made by the 60's, not increasing them.  Putting their name on things made by other manufacturers was very common for them with all but the most popular tube types.  And Sylvania had a habit of making tubes out of whatever parts they had available at the time.  It wouldn't surprise me to see variations in the mica style here and there.
  
 Not saying you aren't right, the proof is likely in how they sound, just tossing an informational counterpoint out there.  It's crazy what you find out there sometimes.  I had a rare 6FD7 tube for the Woo amps that absolutely nobody else could find, people went crazy looking for it for a while but they never turned up anywhere again.  A friend encountered the same thing with a pair of Tung Sol 6DE7, no other owner was ever able to find that type of tube made by Tung Sol no matter how long people looked, but they sounded so different from everything else it couldn't have been a rebrand.  He even sent them to me to listen so there would be one more person to back the story up.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Tony you bought the M28s too?


 
  
 Not me - I wish I could afford those monsters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have just the M1 DAC.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Tony you bought the M28s too?
> ...


 

 On loan?


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> On loan?


 
  
 No - that often isn't possible in far away NZ. "Buy to try" is often how it works here for upper end gear. Auckland is around 2 million people and the entire country is around 4.5 million - tiny, really.
  
 I had that very conversation (stock / demo / loaner units) with the local dealer in Auckland yesterday when I picked up my unit. They supply pro audio gear and would sell one or two M1 DACs a year. No way are they going to have an M1 sitting in their warehouse / office if it might not sell for a year, so you pay your money and it gets shipped from the USA (direct from the factory in my case).
  
 SQ is glorious with the 300B amp, by the way. Really fantastic. Pity my TA300B tubes are in stasis - order placed in April so I am guessing that Takatsuki are having trouble keeping up with demand.
  
 EML 300B tubes have been rock solid. Not the most romantic 300B I have ever heard, but a very decent performer, and reasonably priced compared to many other 300Bs. I hope to try the EML mesh later in the year.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> Are you sure they're not both Sylvanias and just represent variants?  Historically Tung Sol was reducing the number of tubes it made by the 60's, not increasing them.  Putting their name on things made by other manufacturers was very common for them with all but the most popular tube types.  And Sylvania had a habit of making tubes out of whatever parts they had available at the time.  It wouldn't surprise me to see variations in the mica style here and there.
> 
> Not saying you aren't right, the proof is likely in how they sound.....


 
  
 Well, given that we are talking about things that were manufactured some 60 years ago, I can't say I am "sure", but I am pretty sure. 
  
 First, a piece of circumstantial evidence. Tung-Sol published a datasheet for the 6BX7. In my experience, manufacturers did not publish datasheets for tubes they didn't make themselves. This datasheet is dated 1956. Of the four Tung-Sols I have, only one has a numerical date, "6150". The other three use letter-date codes, which I cannot decipher. But since they all have the same construction, with halo getters, I would assume late 1950's to early 1960's for all of them.
  
 https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/6/6BX7GT.pdf
  
 I have a number of Sylvania 6BX7 ranging from the mid-1950's, with rectangular getters, through the mid to late 1960's, with halo getters. All of them have the same mica style, 12 and 8, plus, a third smooth mica, through at least 1964. Sometime after 1964, they eliminated the third mica. I have been looking at these tubes on eBay virtually everyday for months now, and I have never seen a Sylvania labeled tube with 8 and 8 micas.
  
 The etching is also different. On the Tung-Sol bottle, the tube-type, enclosed in an octagon with "USA 3" below is etched into the top of the tube. On the Sylvanias, manufactured at about the same time, also with halo getters, the tube type with "USA" below is etched into the side of the tube, but there is no octagon. The mid to late 1950's Sylvania, with rectangular getters, have only the tube-type enclosed in an octagon etched into the top of the bottle. There are no etched date-codes as was common on Sylvania tubes in the 1940's and into the early 1950's, and "USA" is also absent.
  
 And finally, yes they do sound different. When I finally managed to get a pair, I quickly compared pairs of Tung Sul, GE and Sylvania as output tubes. I would say that the sound of the Tung Sol is closer to the GE than it is to the Sylvania.
  
 While I am understandably anxious to try a Tung-Sol quad, I have decided that I need to spend more time with the HEXFRED first. So for now, I have the GE quad driven by a GEC B36. This will be my "baseline."
  
 Cheers


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations Tony, very nice DAC indeed.


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> No - that often isn't possible in far away NZ. "Buy to try" is often how it works here for upper end gear. Auckland is around 2 million people and the entire country is around 4.5 million - tiny, really.
> 
> I had that very conversation (stock / demo / loaner units) with the local dealer in Auckland yesterday when I picked up my unit. They supply pro audio gear and would sell one or two M1 DACs a year. No way are they going to have an M1 sitting in their warehouse / office if it might not sell for a year, so you pay your money and it gets shipped from the USA (direct from the factory in my case).
> 
> ...




Can't wait until I get my Glenn's 300B! 
I have the EML 300B Mesh. They are warmer and with more romantic sound the mat the regular version. I honk you will like them.


----------



## Khragon

Tony,
  
 What happened to your TA-300B? you used to have a pair right?


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Tony,
> 
> What happened to your TA-300B? you used to have a pair right?


 
  
 I had 2 pairs - one second hand and one new set from Price Japan. Sold them off with my WA5. Kinda regret doing that now - the delay in getting new TA300Bs shipped is getting on to 4 months now.
  
 The mesh EMLs are supposed to be back in stock in September according to Jac, so they are definitely in my plans. The EML plate tube would be perfect in a more lush/euphonic amp (like the Wa5) but lacks some engagement in the Glenn 300B. A rather SS experience - still excellent, of course - but not what I am looking for from my tube amp.


----------



## jhljhl

tonynewman said:


> I had 2 pairs - one second hand and one new set from Price Japan. Sold them off with my WA5. Kinda regret doing that now - the delay in getting new TA300Bs shipped is getting on to 4 months now.
> 
> The mesh EMLs are supposed to be back in stock in September according to Jac, so they are definitely in my plans. The EML plate tube would be perfect in a more lush/euphonic amp (like the Wa5) but lacks some engagement in the Glenn 300B. A rather SS experience - still excellent, of course - but not what I am looking for from my tube amp.


 

 The eml 300bxls are very nice in the wa5le.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> I had 2 pairs - one second hand and one new set from Price Japan. Sold them off with my WA5. Kinda regret doing that now - the delay in getting new TA300Bs shipped is getting on to 4 months now.
> 
> The mesh EMLs are supposed to be back in stock in September according to Jac, so they are definitely in my plans. The EML plate tube would be perfect in a more lush/euphonic amp (like the Wa5) but lacks some engagement in the Glenn 300B. A rather SS experience - still excellent, of course - but not what I am looking for from my tube amp.


 

 Ah.. I found your older photos and look like you have the new black base one, is there even a newer production version for these? or is the black base the latest?


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Ah.. I found your older photos and look like you have the new black base one, is there even a newer production version for these? or is the black base the latest?


 
  
 I think there is a newer version of the TA300B being supplied now, but there are delays in supply. Price Japan say a 1 month delay, but it has been 3 for me so far.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> They are pretty rare. GE 6BX7 always have the sandblasted tube-type and dots and RCA always have side getters, so it comes down to distinguishing between Sylvania and Tung-Sol.
> 
> The first picture is Sylvania. Notice that the top mica has 8 points and the bottom mica has 12, equally spaced. Also notice that the heat radiators are quite tall and open on two sides.
> 
> ...


 

 Have you tried a COSSOR 45IU -they are 4 volt versions of the 53ku I think?


----------



## TonyNewman

Oh my, oh my, oh my. Past the 50 hour mark on the Bricasti and it has smoothed out and opened up quite a bit. Combined with the Glenn 300B the result is warm, rich, detailed, dynamic. Sound staging is not quite as pin point as the Hegel HD30, but that is a small price to pay for the wonderful smoothness and musicality of the Bricasti. A DAC that sounds anything but "digital". And no listener fatigue!! I am very curious about what the result will be with TA300Bs with 300+ hours on them.
  
 Some more DAC + Amp porn, because this thread needs that sort of thing:


----------



## Khragon

Very nice, congrats on reaching audio nirvana


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Very nice, congrats on reaching audio nirvana


 
  
 Nirvana indeed. I might have to wear double underpants when the Taks show up.


----------



## dminches

Imagine if you had an analog source hooked up to Glenn's 300B...


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> Have you tried a COSSOR 45IU -they are 4 volt versions of the 53ku I think?


 
  
 Yes, I have tried the 45IU, and to my ears, it sounds identical to the 53KU. The only difference is the 4 volt heater and a different base.


----------



## Vigrith

ultrainferno said:


> This one is on you guys


 
  
 2 year old post whilst reading through the thread but that's pretty funny, I actually live about 2 minutes from where that was taken.


----------



## TonyNewman

dminches said:


> Imagine if you had an analog source hooked up to Glenn's 300B...


 
  
 I am not a fan of the crackle and pops of vinyl over headphones. On floor standing speakers it is OK, but for headphones it drive me nuts. YMMV.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> Yes, I have tried the 45IU, and to my ears, it sounds identical to the 53KU. The only difference is the 4 volt heater and a different base.


 

 I might try it then do you know the adapter I need?


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> I might try it then do you know the adapter I need?


 
  
 I have this one. However, the quality doesn't impress me. The first time I removed a tube from the adapter, the yellow socket came loose from the base. However, after re-gluing it seems fine.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/U18-FW4-500-tube-adapter-to-instead-274B-5U4G-U52-socket-1pcs-/261772342579
  
 I don't have this one, but from the picture it looks like the quality might be better...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-U18-Replace-5U4G-Tube-Amplifier-socket-adapter-Suzier-B7-/281951474535
  
 I see three 45-IU on eBay and all of them have a Buy It Now price significantly exceeding $300. In my opinion, this is too much. In my experience, 53KU can often be had for half that, or less. A hint: When searching for 53KU, also search for U54, CV378, GZ33 and GZ37. That large fat bottle with a curved base is very easy to recognize regardless of labeling.
  
 Cheers


----------



## leftside

tonynewman said:


> I am not a fan of the crackle and pops of vinyl over headphones. On floor standing speakers it is OK, but for headphones it drive me nuts. YMMV.


 

 Do you know anyone with a "good" turntable, cart and phono pre and who also has clean (preferably from new) vinyl? You might want to give it a try. Yes, there is noise at the beginning of an album and sometimes between tracks, but you should hear no noise whilst the track is playing.
  
 On second thoughts, maybe you shouldn't try it. You seem to have already opened enough Pandora's boxes


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> Do you know anyone with a "good" turntable, cart and phono pre and who also has clean (preferably from new) vinyl? You might want to give it a try. Yes, there is noise at the beginning of an album and sometimes between tracks, but you should hear no noise whilst the track is playing.
> 
> On second thoughts, maybe you shouldn't try it. You seem to have already opened enough Pandora's boxes


 
  
 My audio buddy has a nice vinyl rig. Sounds good, but I am absolutely not chucking more cash around for another source. Gotta draw the line somewhere.


----------



## dminches

tonynewman said:


> I am not a fan of the crackle and pops of vinyl over headphones. On floor standing speakers it is OK, but for headphones it drive me nuts. YMMV.




Unless the record is old and worn, a wet vacuum clearer should eliminate 99% of that.

Plus, reel to reel doesn't suffer from that at all. I listen to a lot of reel with headphones.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> I have this one. However, the quality doesn't impress me. The first time I removed a tube from the adapter, the yellow socket came loose from the base. However, after re-gluing it seems fine.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/U18-FW4-500-tube-adapter-to-instead-274B-5U4G-U52-socket-1pcs-/261772342579
> 
> ...


 

 Gibosi, thank you I'll look into it. What about 43iu?


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> Gibosi, thank you I'll look into it. What about 43iu?


 
  
 The 43-IU can provide only 120ma. This is a no-go in the Glenn OTL, even when running a quad of 6BX7.
  
 However, other 4-volt tubes that you might want to try are the Mullard FW4-500 and the GEC U18/20.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> The 43-IU can provide only 120ma. This is a no-go in the Glenn OTL, even when running a quad of 6BX7.
> 
> However, other 4-volt tubes that you might want to try are the Mullard FW4-500 and the GEC U18/20.


 

 How does the mullard compare to the gec? What is the u18 a 4 volt u52?


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> How does the mullard compare to the gec? What is the u18 a 4 volt u52?


 
  
 In my opinion, the Mullard sounds quite similar to the Mullard GZ37. And while I have not heard the GEC U52, I am inclined to believe that the GEC U18/20 is a 4-volt version of the U52. Comparing the construction (that I can see) and published specifications, they appear to be identical.
  
 You might want to take another look at this posting:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/13095#post_12526829
  
 Cheers


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> In my opinion, the Mullard sounds quite similar to the Mullard GZ37. And while I have not heard the GEC U52, I am inclined to believe that the GEC U18/20 is a 4-volt version of the U52. Comparing the construction (that I can see) and published specifications, they appear to be identical.
> 
> You might want to take another look at this posting:
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks you say the fw4-500 is a 4 volt version of the slim bottle gz37 which I think are just ok or are they a version of the mullard 5u4g which I have not heard?


----------



## gibosi

As I noted in my earlier post, I have not heard the Mullard 5U4G, so I cannot say how it compares to the FW4-500. Judging by construction, they certainly look to be same tube, but looks can be deceiving. The only way to know for sure is to compare them directly. And unfortunately, the Mullard 5U4G is both rare and expensive, so I do not expect to have one on hand anytime soon.
  
 In the end, I did not like the FW4-500 as much as the Cossor and the GEC. The sound reminded me somewhat of the GZ37, but since I didn't like it all that much, I had no interest in spending any serious time comparing these tubes.


----------



## gibosi

For those looking for more options within the 6BX7, Fivre also made this tube. Distinguishing construction characteristics include double bottom rectangular getters and "FIVRE" etched into the side of the glass.
  
 I have only the two, so I can't really say much about how they sound. Will have to wait until I can find a couple more to make a quad. And frankly, I have yet to find the time to roll in the Tung Sol.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Nice, were they expensive?


----------



## jhljhl

Are az50 the same as u18/u20?


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> Are az50 the same as u18/u20?


 
  
 To the best of my knowledge, the AZ50 was not manufactured by GEC. I have seen tubes manufactured by European Philips (Eindhoven), British Tungsram and Mullard.
  
 For some background, these British and European tube numbers can be very confusing. While the US used tube-type numbers, such as 6AS7 and 5U4G, which were used by all American manufacturers, it seems that each British manufacturer had a different number for what was essentially the same tube. So in this case, for GEC, it was U18/20, for Mullard, FW4-500 and for Cossor, 45-IU. And it appears that these tube numbers were exclusive to each manufacturer. So if GEC received an order for a large number of U18/20, exceeding their stock, they typically procured FW4-500 from Mullard and relabeled them as a U18/20. Thus, for those interested in purchasing these tubes, you cannot trust the silkscreen text and graphics. You must first determine who really manufactured the tube in question.
  
 From what I can gather, the AZ50 was initially developed and produced by European Philips. With an output current of 250ma, it was considered to be interchangeable with the U18/20, 45-IU and FW4-500. And in fact, it was often labeled CV1264, a British military designation, along with the FW4-500, U18/20 and 45-IU. Initially, the Mullard AZ50 used the European side contact base. However, I have seen later Mullard production (with halo getters, so perhaps as late as the 1960s), with the European 4-pin base. I have a Philips AZ50 on its way to me and hope to try it soon....
  
 But for now, a Philips 1861 rectifier arrived today. Apparently, it is identical to the AZ4, which Glenn is considering for use in his EL3N amp, but with a 4-pin base, rather than a side contact base. It can provide up to 200ma, so it is a no-go if one is using 6AS7s, but fine with a 6BL7-quad.


----------



## gibosi

jazzvinyl said:


> Nice, were they expensive?


 
  
 No. I got one for $6.50 and the other for $1.50. lol


----------



## TonyNewman

Feel free to call me some very rude names for what I am about to post. I completely "get it" and will wear it with a manly smile and good humour (spelt with a "u" - you bloody Yanks have inflicted untold suffering on the English language). If you want to get completely off the charts, PM me and thrown some abuse my way. I have a thick skin and can deal with it. I have been called the 'c' word more often than most folks have had hot dinners - so go for it. I have been sworn at by tempered professionals (RSMs - for those that know what that means).
  
 OK - here we go. I have been playing about with my rig, using my very best performing headphone I have ever encountered - a modded HE6. _*Those that have not heard a modded HE6 have no idea what they are missing.*_ I own a HD800S and Ether C (and before I sold them, an LCD-X) - none of which come anywhere close to the SQ of the modded HE6. Deep and powerful bass, glorious mids, extended and sweet treble. I would set fire to all my other other HPs to keep my HE6.
  
 This is my rig:
  

  
 PC (USB) or i170 transport (SPDIF) -> Bricasti M1 -> Hegel P20 -> Accuphase P-4200 -> HiFiMan adapter box (modded to a straight through device - no resistors for tube amp usage) -> modded HE6.
  
 My V281 amp is MIA due to a PY500-shorting-induced power surge that took it out of the game, pending repair. That's another sad story for another post. The God of tubes hates me with a passion, based on my history of blown equipment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I am comparing the HE6 driven directly from my power amp speaker taps vs the Glenn 300B amp.
  
 My conclusion? And keep in mind that I LOVE my Glenn amp with a passion that is almost incestuous - I think I would marry my Glenn amp if it had breasts and other pink bits - I get serious wood from the glow of my RCA PY500s every time I power up my tube amp - is that my P20 / P-4200 setup KILLS the Glenn 300B. Absolutely KILLS it in terms of SQ performance.
  
 It freaken HURTS me to type this, but it is a sad fact. I am left scratching my head as to why I spent close to 4K USD on a tube amp (plus shipping to NZ) that does not do better than the power amp I already have, _*and that cost excludes any tubes.*_ Keep in mind that I am _*not *_using the best available 300B tubes - my TA300Bs are still on the way - but I am using "decent" tubes - EML Plate 300B. They simple do not cut it compared to my power amp powering the HE6. Not even a contest. Absolute slaughter.
  
 Glenn - no disrespect intended - I love your amps very much and have nothing but respect for your workmanship and commitment to making the very best tube gear that money can buy.
  
 So here is my proposition - as much as I love the romance and allure of tubes - and I have a tube lust that is almost certifiable - for sheer performance and on any rational dollar vs performance basis - SS wins. It's not a rational discussion IMHO. I have spent enough cash on tubes, and tube amps, over the past 3 years to cover my mortgage and then some - SS wins. There is a small, a very small, SQ benefit that tubes deliver. That holographic effect, for example, but there are SS amps like the V281 that deliver exactly that, in spades.
  
 So there it is. After 3+ years of spending large amounts of $$$ on tubes and tubes amps I am left with the conclusion that SS wins in any *rational *discussion. In the Glenn 300B I have no doubt that I have the very best tube amp that money can buy (or very close to it) - I have nothing but deep respect for Glenn and the amps he makes - but the sad fact is that my SS rig beats it. Consistently. So why bother with the expense and reliability issues inherent in tube gear? There is no rational answer to that that I can formulate. I LOVE the glow of my tube rig and will keep using it for that reason, but it is not a rational or logical decision. For audio performance I will use my P20 + P-4200 / V281 amp setup and know that I am getting the very best performance my budget will allow.
  
 A quick word on DAC performance - the Auralic Vega and Hegel HD30 had some fine qualities - but upgrading to the Bricasti M1 was something I will never regret. Amazing DAC. It does _*everything *_superbly, as you would expect at the price.
  
 OK - said my bit - let lose the dogs of war and unleash the abuse. I am braced for impact


----------



## Khragon

Can your SS amp give you different sound signature depending on your mood? can it ease you in at the end of a hard day work with its' warm glow? I think not.
  
 I purchased the V281 and honestly do enjoy it sound signature, but I think it's really is different signature comparing to Glenn 300B.  Although a tube amp, Glenn 300B is very neutral, and easily tune able with different tubes, while V281 is actually on the warm side, very warm actually comparing to Glenn's and the amp within my Master 11 DAC/Amp unit. 
  
 Brace yourself Tony , the firing squad is on the way.


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## jhljhl

tonynewman said:


> Feel free to call me some very rude names for what I am about to post. I completely "get it" and will wear it with a manly smile and good humour (spelt with a "u" - you bloody Yanks have inflicted untold suffering on the English language). If you want to get completely off the charts, PM me and thrown some abuse my way. I have a thick skin and can deal with it. I have been called the 'c' word more often than most folks have had hot dinners - so go for it. I have been sworn at by tempered professionals (RSMs - for those that know what that means).
> 
> OK - here we go. I have been playing about with my rig, using my very best performing headphone I have ever encountered - a modded HE6. _*Those that have not heard a modded HE6 have no idea what they are missing.*_ I own a HD800S and Ether C (and before I sold them, an LCD-X) - none of which come anywhere close to the SQ of the modded HE6. Deep and powerful bass, glorious mids, extended and sweet treble. I would set fire to all my other other HPs to keep my HE6.
> 
> ...


 
  
 One problem with ss amps are a lack of second order distortion that only tubes can produce (thus far) that's why ss can be fatiguing for some. I think the explanation goes something like playing the same note on a piano over and over as oppose to playing two octaves of the same note. Not a perfect example but it is a basic reason why tubes seem more euphonic in general and ss cannot reproduce.  Hybrid amps however can help tighten the bass impact for tubes. I don't doubt your setup sounds exceptional but there is a function with tubes that cannot be reproduced by ss.


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## Khragon

I got myself a pair of TA300B, getting closer to that magical WE300B sound, burning these in now hopefully to get there.  I can see why so many love these tubes, smooth midrange and added clarity to the treble compared to WE300B.  Also getting EML 300B XLS coming, busy weekend.


----------



## TonyNewman

jhljhl said:


> One problem with ss amps are a lack of second order distortion that only tubes can produce (thus far) that's why ss can be fatiguing for some. I think the explanation goes something like playing the same note on a piano over and over as oppose to playing two octaves of the same note. Not a perfect example but it is a basic reason why tubes seem more euphonic in general and ss cannot reproduce.  Hybrid amps however can help tighten the bass impact for tubes. I don't doubt your setup sounds exceptional but there is a function with tubes that cannot be reproduced by ss.


 
  
 I *LOVE *that "tubiness" of tubes. But, and it is a big "but" I know that I am listening to something added to the source. The extra euphony and richness that some tubes can provide, like the TA300B, is in essence "fake". It is something added to the original recording. That doesn't mean that I don't like or appreciate it - both apply - but it is something added to the original source material.
  
 Right now I am listening to my modded HE6 from my Bricasti->P20->P-4200 rig and it is about as close to the source as you can get (without spending some crazy dollars) - is it fatiguing? Perhaps, but that means that I find the original source material fatiguing - as this SQ is closer to the source than the very best tubes amp can provide (and I include the Glenn 300B in this).
  
 As good as the Glenn 300B amp is, and it beats many SS amps in terms of detail and dynamics - believe me I know that - it still falls short of the very best SS gear in those terms. It always will, I think. For absolute transparency SS wins. That is what 3 years and a bucket load of cash on tube gear + tubes + SS gear has taught me. As for which is more *enjoyable *- that is a different discussion. Right now I would say that my SS rig is more enjoyable than my Glenn 300B rig, but that could change once the TA300Bs arrive.


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## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> I got myself a pair of TA300B, getting closer to that magical WE300B sound, burning these in now hopefully to get there.  I can see why so many love these tubes, smooth midrange and added clarity to the treble compared to WE300B.  Also getting EML 300B XLS coming, busy weekend.


 
  
 Nice!! I wish Price  Japan would hurry up and ship my Taks already. I order in April and still no word.
  
 I used Taks before and know how fantastic they are. Wonderful tubes. Glorious.


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## Khragon

I think when you get the TA300B back you'll find that the V281 doesn't compare with Glenn 300B.  I'm going back and forth now and I can see why V281 paired well with HD800S, because the V281 is a warm up paring to a relatively bright headphones.  With the 300B I can hear the additional harmonics that @jhljhl was talking about, voice is sweeter, treble hangs around a little bit, taken as a whole provides a more enjoying listening experience.  V281 is dull by comparison.  I don't you your exact setup, but I don't have a problem believing that a well implemented and thought out SS can simulate the tube experience, so congrats to you for finding such a setup.


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## TonyNewman

I have no doubt that the the Glenn 300b with TA300Bs will beat the V281 for vocals/mids. That is what I ordered the Taks for. It is the power amp + modded HE6 combination that I doubt the Glenn amp can beat, whatever tubes are put in it.
  
 Right now, with the EML plate 300Bs - a very decent tube - it is no contest. The power amp + modded HE6 wins. Decisively. The Taks might change that. Maybe. I have had Taks before and know how wonderful they are, so I don't make these statement lightly. The modded HE6 from a quality power amp has to be heard to be believed. Bass / Mids / Treble - all superb. Apart from magic mids, I don't think the Taks alone can make up the gap.


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## jhljhl

tonynewman said:


> I *LOVE *that "tubiness" of tubes. But, and it is a big "but" I know that I am listening to something added to the source. The extra euphony and richness that some tubes can provide, like the TA300B, is in essence "fake". It is something added to the original recording. That doesn't mean that I don't like or appreciate it - both apply - but it is something added to the original source material.
> 
> Right now I am listening to my modded HE6 from my Bricasti->P20->P-4200 rig and it is about as close to the source as you can get (without spending some crazy dollars) - is it fatiguing? Perhaps, but that means that I find the original source material fatiguing - as this SQ is closer to the source than the very best tubes amp can provide (and I include the Glenn 300B in this).
> 
> As good as the Glenn 300B amp is, and it beats many SS amps in terms of detail and dynamics - believe me I know that - it still falls short of the very best SS gear in those terms. It always will, I think. For absolute transparency SS wins. That is what 3 years and a bucket load of cash on tube gear + tubes + SS gear has taught me. As for which is more *enjoyable *- that is a different discussion. Right now I would say that my SS rig is more enjoyable than my Glenn 300B rig, but that could change once the TA300Bs arrive.


 

 Tubes will add to the sound but so does all gear to be technical about it- if you want to hear it the way the engineer/producer wanted it you have to reproduce with the same gear they were using or were imagining the listener/end user to be using - that's why so much recent music especially pop music is so over produced - compressed for the mp3 player.
  
 You can't get to absolute neutral unless you get the "equipment" the music producer was using or the exact equipment the producer intended the end listener to use.
  
 Tubes are more enjoyable because they add specifically something to the listening experience. But I like ss because of the power and dynamics; I used to own a Cavalli Liquid Gold. I own a trafomatic head 2 and for a tube amp it is the most dynamic and transparent tube amp I've heard- and sounds like how people describe the v281 (though I've not heard the v281 but plan on getting one eventually for the convenience of ss)- dynamic and transparent without a "veiling" warmth. I wouldn't describe the TH2 as holographic as the v281 is often described as sounding but it has a deep soundstage - not as rich and luxurious sounding as my wa5le but a very nice complimentary amp to have alongside it.
  
 I'd like to get a Glenn 300b with the taks and c3g must be really something!


----------



## TonyNewman

jhljhl said:


> Tubes will add to the sound but so does all gear to be technical about it- if you want to hear it the way the engineer/producer wanted it you have to reproduce with the same gear they were using or were imagining the listener/end user to be using - that's why so much recent music especially pop music is so over produced - compressed for the mp3 player.
> 
> You can't get to absolute neutral unless you get the "equipment" the music producer was using or the exact equipment the producer intended the end listener to use.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Please don't mistake my comments as criticism of my Glenn 300B amp. It is a superb unit. I doubt tube amps get any better than this.
  
 I am not striving for some neutralist utopia. I am about musical enjoyment and engagement.
  
 My point is that a top notch SS rig delivers the sonic goodness that even the best tubes rigs just can't compete with, except perhaps with an artificial warmth and body that the 2nd order distortion that tubes can deliver - which I like, by the way.
  
 Here's the deal - I already have a SS rig that does an amazing job of reproducing music as it was recorded. My best tube rig - awesome as it is - just doesn't play in that same league. 
  
 The TA300B tubes, whenever they might show up, could change things, but for now my best SS rig beats my best tube rig for musical engagement and enjoyment. That's really the bottom line for me. After investing a lot of time and $$$ in various set ups I come back to the conclusion that SS wins. YMMV.


----------



## whirlwind

Some like chocolate, and some like vanilla, and some like both...what ever works for one person, may not work for another.
  
 Key is, get something that you can get lost in your music with and listen to the music and not the gear.
  
 We should all know by now...there is not a *best.  *





......it is all about what one prefers.


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## raybone0566

System synergy, my he-6 shines with a power amp. I don't dedicate all my time to one headphone. Power amp can't stack up to my otl with my senns. I've got the he-6, & hd-800, and the 650 gets most of my listening time. The engagement factor is unmatched. I wouldn't burn any of my phones, if I had to, the 800's would go first.


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## Skylab

"Tubes versus solid state" is indeed no more useful a discussion than arguing that chocolate is better than vanilla. There are incredibly transparent, analytical tube amps, and there are warm, lush, romantic sounding solid state amps. An the end of the day, any given piece of gear has to be judged on its own merits - not its choice of amplification devices.


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## jhljhl

skylab said:


> "Tubes versus solid state" is indeed no more useful a discussion than arguing that chocolate is better than vanilla. There are incredibly transparent, analytical tube amps, and there are warm, lush, romantic sounding solid state amps. An the end of the day, any given piece of gear has to be judged on its own merits - not its choice of amplification devices.


 

 True but my point was simply that tubes have a characteristic - providing second order harmonics- that ss amps cannot do. The technologies both have limitations and their own strengths. I agree you can subjectively prefer one over the other. Some might consider Jackson Pollack a genius and Rembrandt garbage. It is always interesting to see why people like what they do.


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## leftside

Maybe the HE6 needs a SS amp, and no tube amp can drive those properly?
  
 Sell me your Glenn 300B. PM me.


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## jhljhl

raybone0566 said:


> System synergy, my he-6 shines with a power amp. I don't dedicate all my time to one headphone. Power amp can't stack up to my otl with my senns. I've got the he-6, & hd-800, and the 650 gets most of my listening time. The engagement factor is unmatched. I wouldn't burn any of my phones, if I had to, the 800's would go first.


 
  


leftside said:


> Maybe the HE6 needs a SS amp, and no tube amp can drive those properly?
> 
> Sell me your Glenn 300B. PM me.


 

 The he-6 is known for needing lots of power so ss is usually the path of least resistance and most synergy. I listen to mostly classical now days instrumental and choral so I like the euphony of the wa5le and if I need speed the TH2 provides that. But if I were more into say edm and heavy rock now etc I would probably have kept the Liquid Gold and the Abyss.


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## Xcalibur255

After reading your post Tony I'm reminded of how difficult it is to put into words what we hear and feel listening to music.
  
 Over the years I've come to feel that the difference between truly enjoying music and merely hearing it all boils down to how our brains are wired.  I think there are two flavors:  people who hear this mysterious "thing" that either completely engages them emotionally or leaves them dead on the floor, and people who do NOT hear that mysterious thing.  I have no words to describe the concept I'm trying to convey any better than this...... it's just this "thing" some of us can hear.
  
 It sounds to me, Tony, that you are not one of the people who hear this "thing."  There is nothing inherently good or bad about being in one camp or another, the two groups simply have their needs met through different means and requirements.  The only practical difference is that people who can hear the "thing" usually have to spend far more money to be happy than the ones who don't, so objectively speaking it can be viewed as a bad thing.
  
 But, when I'm in that moment.  And I'm hearing that "thing."  I wouldn't trade it for anything.  Anything.  Only tubes have the ability to flip this switch for me.  Not any tubes in any configuration, the balance is incredibly delicate and absurdly easy to upset and lose.  But when it's there, and the "thing" is present, there is nothing on this earth made from transistors that can do what those tubes are doing.  It's the difference between feeling joy and nothing at all.  When I listen to anything SS I feel nothing at all, there is no joy there.  No matter how good it objectively sounds.
  
 This is why, after being extremely fair and taking my time with the whole thing, I expect I will probably pull my hexfred rectifiers out of my amp and put the tubes that get on my nerves so much back in.  Because the "thing" is not present when the hexfreds are there, the switch cannot be flipped because the switch is no longer there to be flipped.  And that switch HAS to be flipped, otherwise there is no point in my listening to music.  I'm wasting my time when the switch is in the off position.
  
 I think, Tony, you are one of the many people who either don't have this switch at all or have never had it flipped for you at all before.  You're absolutely better off that way, yet at the same time you have no idea what you're missing my friend.


----------



## hypnos1

xcalibur255 said:


> After reading your post Tony I'm reminded of how difficult it is to put into words what we hear and feel listening to music.
> 
> Over the years I've come to feel that the difference between truly enjoying music and merely hearing it all boils down to how our brains are wired.  I think there are two flavors:  people who hear this mysterious "thing" that either completely engages them emotionally or leaves them dead on the floor, and people who do NOT hear that mysterious thing.  I have no words to describe the concept I'm trying to convey any better than this...... it's just this "thing" some of us can hear.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting observation Xcalibur255...perhaps this is something to do with what some people call 'organic' sound? But then, isn't _any_ amplification purely the movement of electrons from one place to the next,  whether wholly or partially (with tubes somewhere in the line) by any SS elements -  and then transmitted via airwaves to our eardrums and brain?... 
 Our individual responses to _any_ sound, not just music, are subject to so many different influences - both physical and emotional/psychological, that I suspect the triggering of this mysterious "thing" you mention is determined by an extremely complex combination of factors...regardless of just _what_ may be the source of that sound. And one of the most confusing and misleading of these factors must surely be _expectation_...
  
 If one could bottle and patent a magic formula for _guaranteeing_ the successful flip of such switches in _all_comers, Bill Gates would be a pauper in comparison, lol!...
  
 ps. I have to admit that tubes do indeed seem to flip _my_ switch also...but then, I haven't been fortunate enough to hear _hyper_-end SS gear!


----------



## jhljhl

xcalibur255 said:


> After reading your post Tony I'm reminded of how difficult it is to put into words what we hear and feel listening to music.
> 
> Over the years I've come to feel that the difference between truly enjoying music and merely hearing it all boils down to how our brains are wired.  I think there are two flavors:  people who hear this mysterious "thing" that either completely engages them emotionally or leaves them dead on the floor, and people who do NOT hear that mysterious thing.  I have no words to describe the concept I'm trying to convey any better than this...... it's just this "thing" some of us can hear.
> 
> ...


 

 He said that his power amp + he6 combo = "flipping the switch" for him.  I'm just curious about what it is that he likes about it as I've not heard that system myself so I have no reference point. But having read through dubstep girls rectifier descriptions and having heard these rectifiers myself I now have a grasp of how how she hears things and about how much I agree or disagree with her.
  
 Since I have not heard Tony's system I'm not sure what sound he's going for that really captivates him. For example, I don't know what kind of music you mostly listen to or what sound you are after - power and dynamics - that's what the he6 crowd seem to enjoy and the he6 needs.


----------



## leftside

One day Dubstep girl is going to come on here and say "It was all an elaborate hoax and I had you all fooled - rectifiers only do voltage switching"


----------



## Xcalibur255

jhljhl said:


> He said that his power amp + he6 combo = "flipping the switch" for him.  I'm just curious about what it is that he likes about it as I've not heard that system myself so I have no reference point. But having read through dubstep girls rectifier descriptions and having heard these rectifiers myself I now have a grasp of how how she hears things and about how much I agree or disagree with her.
> 
> Since I have not heard Tony's system I'm not sure what sound he's going for that really captivates him. For example, I don't know what kind of music you mostly listen to or what sound you are after - power and dynamics - that's what the he6 crowd seem to enjoy and the he6 needs.


 
  
 Maybe what I'm trying to describe is some people's need to to *be* captivated, where others don't so much.  My whole post was kind of stream of consciousness.  Also, full disclosure:  I have not gotten a good night's sleep in 6 days now.
  
 My own listening experiences are both emotional and analytical, but there is a key emotional component that completely overrides everything else and I honestly have no idea exactly what unlocks it.  It's likely a complex combination of things as hypnos said.  In its absence, my first motivation is to simply turn the amp off and stop listening.  Some people are not so "all or nothing" about it the way I'm describing, that's also part of what I was trying to convey earlier.
  
 I don't consider my all or nothing mentality on the subject to be a particularly good or healthy thing either; but the key point is that I don't choose to be this way, I simply am for reasons I don't understand.


----------



## jhljhl

xcalibur255 said:


> Maybe what I'm trying to describe is some people's need to to *be* captivated, where others don't so much.  My whole post was kind of stream of consciousness.  Also, full disclosure:  I have not gotten a good night's sleep in 6 days now.
> 
> My own listening experiences are both emotional and analytical, but there is a key emotional component that completely overrides everything else and I honestly have no idea exactly what unlocks it.  It's likely a complex combination of things as hypnos said.  In its absence, my first motivation is to simply turn the amp off and stop listening.  Some people are not so "all or nothing" about it the way I'm describing, that's also part of what I was trying to convey earlier.
> 
> I don't consider my all or nothing mentality on the subject to be a particularly good or healthy thing either; but the key point is that I don't choose to be this way, I simply am for reasons I don't understand.


 

 Sounds like you have a visceral moment - wanting the sublime aesthetic/sensual (as in from the 5 senses) experience - trying to experience *the* beautiful; the sublime so to be moved deeply. (I'm a Christian so I can experience this through contemplation of God; spiritually. But there are many who experience through their five senses and emotions of course just sayin'.)
  
 Anyway, what music were you listening to and what tube combination and equipment when you've experience these aesthetic moments of appreciation/epiphanies for example?


----------



## leftside

jhljhl said:


> Sounds like you have a visceral moment - wanting the sublime aesthetic/sensual (as in from the 5 senses) experience - trying to experience *the* beautiful; the sublime so to be moved deeply. (I'm a Christian so I can experience this through contemplation of God; spiritually. But there are many who experience through their five senses and emotions of course just sayin'.)


 
 Smoking DMT can help with both the visceral moment and the spirituality.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> Feel free to call me some very rude names for what I am about to post. I completely "get it" and will wear it with a manly smile and good humour (spelt with a "u" - you bloody Yanks have inflicted untold suffering on the English language). If you want to get completely off the charts, PM me and thrown some abuse my way. I have a thick skin and can deal with it. I have been called the 'c' word more often than most folks have had hot dinners - so go for it. I have been sworn at by tempered professionals (RSMs - for those that know what that means).
> 
> OK - here we go. I have been playing about with my rig, using my very best performing headphone I have ever encountered - a modded HE6. _*Those that have not heard a modded HE6 have no idea what they are missing.*_ I own a HD800S and Ether C (and before I sold them, an LCD-X) - none of which come anywhere close to the SQ of the modded HE6. Deep and powerful bass, glorious mids, extended and sweet treble. I would set fire to all my other other HPs to keep my HE6.
> 
> ...


 

 I didn't think my amps were slouches but maybe yes. Maybe I should go back to making SS amps with Lateral Mosfets made for audio. 4 transistors = 200 watts
  
 As far as basterdising the English language I am from New York and probably do it the worst. But never used bloody or bloke what the heck is that anyway.


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> Smoking DMT can help with both the visceral moment and the spirituality.


 

 Again that's what some people turn too as well as alcohol, sports, fast cars, gambling, whores etc.


----------



## leftside

Some of those mix quite well together, but probably not all at once.


----------



## Khragon

Glenn,
  
 For EML 300B XLS, what is the recommended max plate current?
 From EML's website, they mention this tube has some special linearity when going above normal 300B spec.
 What's the operating voltage for Glenn's 300B amp?
  
 Here's the link:
 http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML300B-XLS.htm
  
 Thanks


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Glenn,
> 
> For EML 300B XLS, what is the recommended max plate current?
> From EML's website, they mention this tube has some special linearity when going above normal 300B spec.
> ...


 

 Your transformers are LL1623 90ma that is what they recommend. Just don't go much over 90ma that the transformers are air gaped for.
 Over 90ma won't heart anything just saturate the cores causing reduced bass while running like this.
 Just turn it up and see what sounds best.


----------



## Xcalibur255

jhljhl said:


> Sounds like you have a visceral moment - wanting the sublime aesthetic/sensual (as in from the 5 senses) experience - trying to experience *the* beautiful; the sublime so to be moved deeply. (I'm a Christian so I can experience this through contemplation of God; spiritually. But there are many who experience through their five senses and emotions of course just sayin'.)
> 
> Anyway, what music were you listening to and what tube combination and equipment when you've experience these aesthetic moments of appreciation/epiphanies for example?


 
  
 There's something going on with me on both the logic side as well as the emotion side usually.  Logically I need to hear a certain kind of performace from an amp to enjoy it.  I think (but don't know) that it's a combination of phase and odd order harmonic distortion.  For example I can't stand the way my 45 sounds when I put a new rectifier in.  Something is out of place and until it pops back in I'm not having a good time.  It takes 20-24 hours, like clockwork, to get back to good.  I can hear it "click" in the space of a single song sometimes at the end of a burn-in cycle.
  
 On the music side, I've always responded to certain combinations of sounds or harmony.  It can come from anything really.  When I was much younger BGM tracks in videogames would trigger it.  Every once in a blue moon both sides of the brain are having a good time simultaneous, and those are the moments I live for.


----------



## gibosi

It seems to me that many here live in a very different audio world than I do. lol.   However, this does remind me that I have been thinking about getting a better DAC. While certainly not in the top tier, the Meier Corda DACCORD looks like it would be a significant upgrade to my Audio GD Fun. And now that I am retired and learning to live on less, it may well be best I can afford. But since I listen exclusively to streaming Google music, maybe it's too good? Anyway, does anyone have any experience with this DAC?
  
 Back to the tubes...  This evening, I finally managed to install a quad of Tung-Sol 6BX7. One of them was bad and since I had to sort through with four tubes in two adapters, it took quite a bit of time to identify it. Fortunately, I had a spare so now everything is good.
  
 And I have also been living a little while with the Philips 1861 rectifier. It is very interesting to me that even though the rectifier is not in the signal path, it not only affects the sound, but sometimes it affects the sound in a very predicable way. For example, the GEC U18/20 has a sound very similar to the GEC 6AS7. And in the same way, the Philips 1861 has a sound very similar to double triodes manufactured in Holland by Philips, specifically those manufactured in Eindhoven, Heerlen, and Sittard. For example, the rectifier confers a similar lushness to the midrange that I hear with the Heerlen E88CC and the Eindhoven and Sittard ECC40. Pretty amazing to me... and pretty neat.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Don't get me wrong.  I don't have very much money either.  I just throw every free penny at this hobby.  The money that bought the 45 Glenn built for me was being saved for several years.  It started out as a savings fund for a Woo WA22 and ultimately got spend......... on something much better.


----------



## lukeap69

X you have a 45. I didn't know Glenn was also building this?


----------



## Silent One

leftside said:


> Maybe the HE6 needs a SS amp, and no tube amp can drive those properly?
> 
> Sell me your Glenn 300B. PM me.


 
 @ Skylab - Well said.
  
 @ leftside - As a modded HE-6 owner, I can testify an inadequate SS amp won't properly drive the cans either. The quest is akin to navigating a sea of icebergs - some owners make good decisions, some get lucky but many run into trouble without understanding what lies beneath 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




and what's really needed. Sufficient watts may get you in the ballpark, but only good design and good power supply will get you seated by row & section number.
  
 My own cans are properly driven by both chips & glass:
  
 - Tube Mono blocks Class A 40 wpc - via speaker taps
 - Solid State Stereo receiver Class A 265 wpc - via speaker taps
  
 And when the time comes for my next custom build from 2359glenn-studio, properly driving the '6' won't be an issue either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## dminches

gibosi said:


> It seems to me that many here live in a very different audio world than I do. lol.   However, this does remind me that I have been thinking about getting a better DAC. While certainly not in the top tier, the Meier Corda DACCORD looks like it would be a significant upgrade to my Audio GD Fun. And now that I am retired and learning to live on less, it may well be best I can afford. But since I listen exclusively to streaming Google music, maybe it's too good? Anyway, does anyone have any experience with this DAC?




You should listen to a Lamizator. It is a wonderful DAC and a tube lovers dream with all the options.


----------



## gibosi

dminches said:


> You should listen to a Lamizator. It is a wonderful DAC and a tube lovers dream with all the options.


 
  
 Indeed, the Lamizator series do look like wonderful DACs, but even their entry-level model is about $2000, which is way more than my budget will allow.... And thus my interest in the DACCORD, for about $650, an amount I hope to be able to scrape together by Christmas.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> But since I listen exclusively to streaming Google music, maybe it's too good?


 
 I would have thought you were a vinyl man  Google music is meant to be pretty good. Only you can decide if this is good as something like a local FLAC file.
 http://www.werockyourweb.com/spotify-vs-rhapsody-vs-pandora-vs-google-music-vs-rdio-vs-mog/#google-play-music


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> I would have thought you were a vinyl man  Google music is meant to be pretty good. Only you can decide if this is good as something like a local FLAC file.
> http://www.werockyourweb.com/spotify-vs-rhapsody-vs-pandora-vs-google-music-vs-rdio-vs-mog/#google-play-music


 
  
 I still have my Thoren's turntable bought new in the early 1970's, but the CD bug bit me hard and I foolishly sold all my records many years ago.... 
  
 Now, I find streaming very convenient and the fidelity good enough, that I have no wish to go back to vinyl or CDs.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> I still have my Thoren's turntable bought new in the early 1970's, but the CD bug bit me hard and I foolishly sold all my records many years ago....
> 
> Now, I find streaming very convenient and the fidelity good enough, that I have no wish to go back to vinyl or CDs.


 
RGN2504? Ever try it?


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Your transformers are LL1623 90ma that is what they recommend. Just don't go much over 90ma that the transformers are air gaped for.
> Over 90ma won't heart anything just saturate the cores causing reduced bass while running like this.
> Just turn it up and see what sounds best.


 

 Thanks Glenn, currently running at 60mA to ease these in.  Did you get my pm Glenn?  I pm'ed you a couple days ago.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Your transformers are LL1623 90ma that is what they recommend. Just don't go much over 90ma that the transformers are air gaped for.
> ...


 

 Oh you got them already how do they sound so far?
 I plan on building the adapters tomorrow so I can send it with the parts on Monday.


----------



## Xcalibur255

lukeap69 said:


> X you have a 45. I didn't know Glenn was also building this?


 
  
 I'm sure I've talked about it a number of times since you've been participating here.
  
 My amp is a one-off, it's the only 45 Glenn had built, at least in time time he has been MOTT here on Head-fi anyway.  It's a 45 because that's what I wanted.  To the best of my knowledge nobody else has shown interest, they prefer to go for the 300B under the assumption that the 45 isn't powerful enough.
  
 The amp is the source of quite a few of the design elements being used for all of the 300B amps though, including the source for the chassis and the use of Lundahl transformers, so in a way it was a kind of "proving ground" for the things that followed.


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> RGN2504? Ever try it?


 
  
 No, I haven't. It is rated at 180ma, and I have been reluctant to go below 200ma with four 6BL7 in the Glenn OTL. However, this rectifier is more than adequate in your Woo. The RGN2504 was manufactured by Telefunken and it tends to be pretty expensive, especially those with mesh plates. However, Philips and others manufactured equivalent tubes, such as G2504 and 1815.
  
 Another tube you might want to consider is the Telefunken RGN2004. This tube is rated at 160ma, again, too puny for the Glenn, but more than adequate in your Woo. Again, the Telefunkens are pretty expensive, but equivalent tubes manufactured by Philips and others are much more affordable, such as 1561, G2004, PV4200 and R4200.
  
 And in your Woo, you can also use 120ma rectifiers, so the 43-IU, U12, U14 and others are out there.
  
 Have fun!


----------



## lukeap69

xcalibur255 said:


> I'm sure I've talked about it a number of times since you've been participating here.
> 
> My amp is a one-off, it's the only 45 Glenn had built, at least in time time he has been MOTT here on Head-fi anyway.  It's a 45 because that's what I wanted.  To the best of my knowledge nobody else has shown interest, they prefer to go for the 300B under the assumption that the 45 isn't powerful enough.
> 
> The amp is the source of quite a few of the design elements being used for all of the 300B amps though, including the source for the chassis and the use of Lundahl transformers, so in a way it was a kind of "proving ground" for the things that followed.




I was probably not paying attention 

So you have a very unique Glenn's amp then. Nice!


----------



## Khragon

I didn't go with 45 mainly due to the lack of availability of modern tubes, not power really.  There are more options with 300B, and some really great ones too.


----------



## lukeap69

khragon said:


> I didn't go with 45 mainly due to the lack of availability of modern tubes, not power really.  There are more options with 300B, and some really great ones too.




This may be a silly question, what would be the difference in sound between the 45 and 300b in Glenn's amp? Or why would X prefer the 45 rather than 300b (I assume X prefers the 45 because that is what is amp uses.)


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't go with 45 mainly due to the lack of availability of modern tubes, not power really.  There are more options with 300B, and some really great ones too.
> ...


 

 The 45 is said to be the best sounding tube maybe the European PX4 compares to it. Only puts out 1.5 watts But I found out 1 watt is more then enough when I
 built the EL3N amp. That also supposed to sound as good when hooked up as a triode with out the hassle of direct heating
 Most headphone amps only put out mili watts or less then a watt. Unless you have the crazy HE-6 that 8 watts is not enough 1.5 watts is more then enough. But what would a Bloody Yank know.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> lukeap69 said:
> 
> 
> > X you have a 45. I didn't know Glenn was also building this?
> ...


 

 Tyrell
  
 Have you ever considered trying a 46 tube with a adapter? I used to make these adapters and people said they sounded better then the 45.
 And are allot cheaper you can get nice Globe 46 too.  Just something to think about. Also with the same adapter you can try the 47 pentode that would 
 be triode wired 47 might not sound as good.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-JRC-NOS-Type-46-Engraved-Base-Vacuum-Tube-Audio/252483672988?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37470%26meid%3D67cf34179fed4498a309c2052ae884bf%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D13%26sd%3D172296780602


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> The 45 is said to be the best sounding tube maybe the European PX4 compares to it. Only puts out 1.5 watts But I found out 1 watt is more then enough when I
> built the EL3N amp. That also supposed to sound as good when hooked up as a triode with out the hassle of direct heating
> Most headphone amps only put out mili watts or less then a watt. Unless you have the crazy HE-6 that 8 watts is not enough 1.5 watts is more then enough. But what would a Bloody Yank know.




Thanks for the exlanation Glenn. Is the cost of 45 amp the same as 300b amp (no tubes only amp?)

On a different subject, I know that you have done some revisions to your EL3N amp, what is the final configuration? Bloody good or what?


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The 45 is said to be the best sounding tube maybe the European PX4 compares to it. Only puts out 1.5 watts But I found out 1 watt is more then enough when I
> ...


 

 Yes I made changes it will run as a triode output and a switch switches it to pentode with no driver.
 I think it sounds better in triode but has more power in pentode 4.5 watts into a 32 ohm load.
 I don't need all that power so I have been burning it in in triode sounds Bloody good.
  
 The cost will be similar using the best transformers they are not cheep. Maybe I can do it for $2K
 Can probably do the EL3N for less no DC voltage regulators for the filaments.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Oh you got them already how do they sound so far?
> I plan on building the adapters tomorrow so I can send it with the parts on Monday.


 

 Yeah they actually sounds pretty good, not as smooth as TAK, but surprisingly close, considering these are less than half the TAK price.  Need more time though, and also need to try 90mA setting.
  
 *Edit* just tried 85mA and noticed changes right away compared to 60mA, bass got noticeably tighter and more refine, sound stage expanded, can't say treble is better, but I prefer the 85mA at this time.


----------



## dminches

I think I have been running my Tak 300Bs at 90.


----------



## Khragon

I'm seriously thinking of doing this considering the increase fidelity... any recommendation Glenn? would normal 300B be OK at 85-90 mA?


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> I'm seriously thinking of doing this considering the increase fidelity... any recommendation Glenn? would normal 300B be OK at 85-90 mA?


 

 Most normal 300Bs can only handle 80 ma I wouldn't go that high try them at 80ma.
 Unless the specs say it can go higher some can go higher now. Don't don it with the WE that is made to original specs.


----------



## 2359glenn

2359glenn said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > I'm seriously thinking of doing this considering the increase fidelity... any recommendation Glenn? would normal 300B be OK at 85-90 mA?
> ...


 

 For all DHTs they sound best running them HOT.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> I think I have been running my Tak 300Bs at 90.


 

 I think the TAKs can handle 90ma they should have come with paper work that say the max.


----------



## dminches

Max current is 100 mA.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Max current is 100 mA.


 

 90 is good then that is all the transformers want without loosing bass. But I wouldn't worry much as they go down to 8Hz
 If it looses a little there probably is nothing there from your source anyway.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Tyrell
> 
> Have you ever considered trying a 46 tube with a adapter? I used to make these adapters and people said they sounded better then the 45.
> And are allot cheaper you can get nice Globe 46 too.  Just something to think about. Also with the same adapter you can try the 47 pentode that would
> ...


 
  
 You made me adapters for this.    I was trying this out on the day the Great Rectifier Disaster fried all those resistors inside the amp.  I think there is a stigma of sort associated due to that, but additionally I cannot find any guidance whatsoever on what the proper bias is for a 46.  The datasheet somehow does not specify a maximum, and they draw something like 10ma at the same bias pot setting I use for a 45 so I really didn't know what was best and didn't pursue them any further.
  
 The one ear test I was able to get with them didn't tell me much about how they sound.  It seemed different.  Wouldn't call it better or worse, just different.


----------



## Xcalibur255

lukeap69 said:


> This may be a silly question, what would be the difference in sound between the 45 and 300b in Glenn's amp? Or why would X prefer the 45 rather than 300b (I assume X prefers the 45 because that is what is amp uses.)


 
  
 This is one of those things that's probably impossible to describe with words alone.  The 45 and the 300B do sound different.  Very different actually.  I think people are surprised by how a 45 sounds the first time they ever hear one, I absolutely was.  You read all these things about how directly heated triodes sound in general, most of these impressions coming from 300B users, and end up hearing something quite different.
  
 I love the 45 sound for two reasons:  when everything is working at its best it has the most pure and *truthful* tone you will find in any amplifier.  Note I don't say the word "good" here, but true.  Most tubes "hotspot" or exaggerate certain frequencies.  That's exactly why we describe them with words like "sweet" and "warm" and "rich" where as other tubes are called "dry" or "reedy" and etc.  The 45 gives you all of the tone color and vibrancy you expect from a tube, but it also offers a tonal *accuracy* that very few tubes can.  Reason number two:  it is wonderfully transparent.  A lot of tubes tend to add emphasis to note decay, or make the sounstage seem "thicker" or more airy.  The 45 is an untainted window into the recording, without the odd order harmonic distortion of transistors.  When you combine those two things together the listening experience is one of being placed "in front of the microphone" as I like to call it.
  
 I don't think the 300B really does this.  Does it sound very good?  Absolutely yes.  But it puts its own color and character into the music, there is a tint being applied.  That "300B" sound so to speak.  The 45 doesn't really have it's own sound when it's really doing its thing, it's pure and truthful.  I highly value this.  Some people want that tubey sound.  I just want the recording, rendered as accurately as possible, with as little distortion and harshness as possible.  Solid state amps are good at the former if you build them with expensive parts, but have never been as good as tubes when it comes to the latter.  The 45 is one of a very small number of tubes that is extremely good at both.


----------



## dminches

Completely different application but my DAC uses DHTs. I have used both 45s and 300Bs and the 45s were a weak 2nd. Again, this is very different than using them for amplification.


----------



## Xcalibur255

dminches said:


> Completely different application but my DAC uses DHTs. I have used both 45s and 300Bs and the 45s were a weak 2nd. Again, this is very different than using them for amplification.


 
  
 Well, two thoughts come to mind:  you can't really optimize a circuit for both.  You can make it compatible with both, but one or the other is going to be second fiddle because of non-ideal transformer primaries and different heater currents (more parts in the signal path to meet the needs of the tube the circuit wasn't optimized for).  If the circuit was designed for the 300B, then the 45 is automatically knee-capped in performance in that circuit.
  
 Secondly, different strokes for different folks.    Like I said, my priorities are a little different from some (probably most) tube aficionados.


----------



## gibosi

A second pair of Fivre 6BX7GT arrived today, and the construction is slightly different than the first pair. An example of the first pair is on the left, with two bottom rectangular getters, and one of the new ones is on the right. These also have two rectangular getters, but there appear to be what look like sheet-metal shields installed just above the getters. My guess is that the second pair might be little older than the first pair.
  
 In order to run a quad of 6BL7/6BX7 in my OTL, I have to use adapters that allow two 6BX7 to be installed in one 6AS7 socket. While it is great to have these adapters, I have found them to be a little squirrelly. It seems to make a difference how the tubes are paired, and even which socket.
  
 Initially, with four Fivre in the two adapters, there was a very strong ground hum. I swapped two tubes, one from each adapter, and that strong ground hum disappeared. However, I noticed that there was still a little hum and touching the tubes made it go away. So I swapped the adapters, right to left, and now they are acceptably quiet. I found the Tung-Sol 6BX7 in these adapters to be similarly finicky, but interestingly, the GE 6BX7 are rock solid.
  
 Edit: And I should add, the Sylvania 6BL7 and 6BX7 were also rock solid.


----------



## whirlwind

I agree about the adapters, the adapters made in China are not the same quality of Glenn's .
  
 Sometimes they are more of a PITA than they are worth.
  
 Trying to figure what tube is causing the noise.


----------



## gibosi

For sure, IF and when Glenn offers to make these adapters, I will definitely get in line.


----------



## gibosi

Glenn,
  
 I recently ordered an AX50 not realizing that it is a mercury-vapor rectifier. In your opinion, is it safe for me to use this in your OTL?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Glenn,
> 
> I recently ordered an AX50 not realizing that it is a mercury-vapor rectifier. In your opinion, is it safe for me to use this in your OTL?


 

 It is OK to use a Hg rectifier they have a exact voltage drop of 15 volts no matter what the current draw is.
 The problem with Hg rectifiers are they tend to be noisy. And if the amp was made to use them I would
 have put chokes or ferrite beads on the plate leads.
 I would try them they might be similar to the SS rectifier if they are not noisy.


----------



## 2359glenn

2359glenn said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn,
> ...


 
 If you like the the AX50 you might try the #83 rectifier you will need a 4 pin to 8 pin adapter.
 Hg rectifiers have a neat blue glow inside the plates.


----------



## gibosi

Thanks! 
  
 I expect it to arrive in the next several days and am looking forward to trying it.
  
 Once I realized that this was a mercury-vapor rectifier, I found the following thread on DIYAudio and some of the posters seem to feel very strongly that they are not safe. So I thought I should ask your advice.
  
 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/183782-what-i-need-safe-use-mercury-rectifier.html
  
 And I noticed that it is considered equivalent to the 83, but with a different base and a 5-volt heater.
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ax50.html
  
 To those who are unfamiliar with the AX50, it is a European Philips 4-volt rectifier, apparently manufactured in Eindhoven, Holland, that can provide up to 250ma. As I can use it with the same adapter as the U18/20, it seemed to be well worth trying.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I expect it to arrive in the next several days and am looking forward to trying it.
> 
> ...


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/401137074956?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 fivre type 83?


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/401137074956?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> fivre type 83?


 
  
 It appears that these are Fivre 83, a 5-volt mercury-vapor rectifier. And if so, it has a UX four-pin base, which is different than the European four-pin base. 
  
 If you want to roll type 83 tubes, you will need a UX to Octal adapter - UX on top and Octal on the bottom - like this:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-WE274A-5Z3-80-TO-WE274B-5U4G-GZ34-5AR4-Tube-converter-adapter-/191688146280


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I expect it to arrive in the next several days and am looking forward to trying it.
> 
> ...


 
 I wouldn't worry that much about Hg rectifiers. Do you have florescent lights in your house were you work? They have Hg in them and produce ultra violet light
 that is converted to visible light by the phosphors on the glass. How about Hg vapor lights these things are every ware and going to worry about a tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> jhljhl said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/401137074956?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> ...


 

 This adapter will work fine. Unless you want me to make you one I cant make it that cheep though.
 It can also be used for a 5Z3 another nice rectifier


----------



## gibosi

The AX50, NOS/NIB, arrived in this morning's mail. The production code is AL2 / 01H, indicating that this tube was manufactured in August, 1951, 65 years ago this month. My assumption is "0" indicates Eindhoven. In the early days, Eindhoven seems to have simply assigned each factory a number-name. I have seen a number of double triodes and vacuum tube rectifiers, including the metal-based GZ34, manufactured in factories #4 and #5. As this is a gas-filled tube, not a vacuum tube, it makes sense to me that it would have been manufactured in a different factory, factory #0.. And perhaps factory #0 was dedicated to gas-filled tubes. But of course, this is nothing more than a WAG on my part.  
  

  
 Yes it does have a blue glow and I expect that it would look even cooler at night:
  

  
 Looking down from above
  

  
 The AX50 doesn't seem any noisier than than other rectifiers in my amp with the original transformer, four Tung-Sol 6BX7 and one GEC B36.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> It is OK to use a Hg rectifier they have a exact voltage drop of 15 volts no matter what the current draw is.
> The problem with Hg rectifiers are they tend to be noisy. And if the amp was made to use them I would
> have put chokes or ferrite beads on the plate leads.
> I would try them they might be similar to the SS rectifier if they are not noisy.


 

 Would this same rectifier be fine to use with one of your earlier generation OTLs, Glenn?


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Would this same rectifier be fine to use with one of your earlier generation OTLs, Glenn?


 
  
 I believe I have the same transformer as you do... And thus, I believe that any rectifier I can use, you can also use....


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> I believe I have the same transformer as you do... And thus, I believe that any rectifier I can use, you can also use....


 

 Cool...mine is not the Lundahl ones so i hope its the same as yours  Just checked eBay and the tube is not cheap! but the blue hue is pretty tempting..


----------



## gibosi

Folks with amps equipped with Lundahl transformers cannot roll ANY 5-volt rectifiers. In return, their amps are significantly quieter.


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> The AX50, NOS/NIB, arrived in this morning's mail. The production code is AL2 / 01H, indicating that this tube was manufactured in August, 1951, 65 years ago this month. My assumption is "0" indicates Eindhoven. In the early days, Eindhoven seems to have simply assigned each factory a number-name. I have seen a number of double triodes and vacuum tube rectifiers, including the metal-based GZ34, manufactured in factories #4 and #5. As this is a gas-filled tube, not a vacuum tube, it makes sense to me that it would have been manufactured in a different factory, factory #0.. And perhaps factory #0 was dedicated to gas-filled tubes. But of course, this is nothing more than a WAG on my part.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sweetness.


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > It is OK to use a Hg rectifier they have a exact voltage drop of 15 volts no matter what the current draw is.
> ...


 

 Yes this tube and the #83 will work in your amp with the proper adapters


----------



## Xcalibur255

For people still retaining interest in the HEXFRED didoes, I have a small update for you.  They're continuing to change in sound past the 25-30 hour mark.  Basically they keep getting smoother and the tone is normalizing, both of which are good things are the two singular complaints I have had up to this point.
  
 I haven't been listening to the amp lately hence the low hours (I haven't been listening to any of my other audio gear either, just haven't had any time lately), otherwise I would have had additional burn-in information sooner.
  
 I liked what I was hearing last night a lot.  I still miss the tonal presentation of the tube rectifiers a little bit, but at this point the sound is enjoyable where as before now I would have described it as compromised.  So basically you cannot judge these until you put at least 30 hours on them, probably more.  I'm not really surprised by this but I felt it a good public service to report the journey all the same.  That, and I don't want to discourage people who were interested in this with my earlier posts.  They were qualified with the "these are early impressions" statement, but still.
  
 Happy listening.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks Tyrell. Can't wait for my pair to arrive and try them out. Does this make the amp a hybrid then? Lol


----------



## MIKELAP

gibosi said:


> Folks with amps equipped with Lundahl transformers cannot roll ANY 5-volt rectifiers. In return, their amps are significantly quieter.


 
 Saw this about heating up mercury vapor tubes , tube may arc if not heated prior to using in amp mine did taught i blew it               https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctwLopC0X7c


----------



## Xcalibur255

rossliew said:


> Thanks Tyrell. Can't wait for my pair to arrive and try them out. Does this make the amp a hybrid then? Lol


 
  
 My understanding is a hybrid amp utilizes tubes for voltage gain but have transistors in the final output stage.  What we're doing is utilizing solid state components in the power supply, but the amplification stages are still all tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

mikelap said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Folks with amps equipped with Lundahl transformers cannot roll ANY 5-volt rectifiers. In return, their amps are significantly quieter.
> ...


 

 This is more likely to happen in a amp with higher voltage like a 300B amp. His amp only has 265 volts to the rectifier


----------



## Rossliew

xcalibur255 said:


> My understanding is a hybrid amp utilizes tubes for voltage gain but have transistors in the final output stage.  What we're doing is utilizing solid state components in the power supply, but the amplification stages are still all tube.




Yes that makes sense. Pretty amazing that one can mix and match tube with solid state components in an all tube amp. Very impressed with technology !


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> This is more likely to happen in a amp with higher voltage like a 300B amp. His amp only has 265 volts to the rectifier




That is reassuring!


----------



## Khragon

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2016/08/japan-audiophiles-personal-utility-poles/?utm_source=mainrss
  
 So which one of us will do this first? get our own utility pole install so we can feed our Glenn amps ultra pure power


----------



## Silent One

khragon said:


> http://www.ubergizmo.com/2016/08/japan-audiophiles-personal-utility-poles/?utm_source=mainrss
> 
> So which one of us will do this first? get our own utility pole install so we can feed our Glenn amps ultra pure power


 
 Some folks have been known to spend that much at strip clubs - I think they've got the wrong pole! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm still interested in taking one of my rigs off-grid. Last year I was close to pulling a battery bank from a Prius, or one of the EVs (cars or scooters). But as I went around wrecking yards, I didn't particularly like the nick-cad battery banks being used for the expense. Here in SoCal this place is crawling with lots of Prius' and other hybrids and EVs (operable/inoperable alike) but would rather use cells of later gen LiPO batts than nickel cad. And trying to save dollars rather making new batt purchases.
  
 Gonna work this battery bank project out for the listening room one way or another. Hopefully can experiment by year end.


----------



## musicman59

I got a PM from Glenn, he is about to start my 300B amp build, yeah!!


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> http://www.ubergizmo.com/2016/08/japan-audiophiles-personal-utility-poles/?utm_source=mainrss
> 
> So which one of us will do this first? get our own utility pole install so we can feed our Glenn amps ultra pure power


 

 I have that only because I live in the Boone's have a pole in front of my house with a transformer that only feeds me.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> This is more likely to happen in a amp with higher voltage like a 300B amp. His amp only has 265 volts to the rectifier


 
  
 Glenn,
  
 Tonight when I turned the amp on, I saw a bright flash inside the AX50... I assume it was an arc? But apparently the rectifier wasn't damaged as it is still working. Should I consider this as just a "light show"? Or should I be concerned?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > This is more likely to happen in a amp with higher voltage like a 300B amp. His amp only has 265 volts to the rectifier
> ...


 

 I don't think it damaged it. these tubes like to be wormed up before high voltage is applied.
 If it keeps on doing it the tube will be damaged by knocking the oxide off the filament/cathode.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I don't think it damaged it. these tubes like to be wormed up before high voltage is applied.
> If it keeps on doing it the tube will be damaged by knocking the oxide off the filament/cathode.


 
  
 I will definitely keep an eye on it. This is the 5th time I have rolled this tube, and it is the first time it has arced...


----------



## jhljhl

musicman59 said:


> I got a PM from Glenn, he is about to start my 300B amp build, yeah!!


 
 What kind did you get (tube layout and transformers)?


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> musicman59 said:
> 
> 
> > I got a PM from Glenn, he is about to start my 300B amp build, yeah!!
> ...


 

 C3g driver 300B output 42EC4/PY500 rectifiers and Lundahl transformers the best.


----------



## musicman59

jhljhl said:


> What kind did you get (tube layout and transformers)?


 
  
  


2359glenn said:


> C3g driver 300B output 42EC4/PY500 rectifiers and Lundahl transformers the best.


 
 I also sent Glenn OCC Copper chassis wire, Cards Eutectic solder, Furutech RCAs and IEC and ViaBlue spikes to use in the amp.


----------



## Rossliew

Awesome amp that's gonna be!


----------



## dminches

I have patient zero of that amp, Selah.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I have that only because I live in the Boone's have a pole in front of my house with a transformer that only feeds me.


 
  
 That's the right way to do it my friend.  
  
 If I made, oh say, 3x more money than I do I would absolutely live out of town on my own secluded piece of land.  Sadly that door is not open to me.  Maybe someday it will be.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.ubergizmo.com/2016/08/japan-audiophiles-personal-utility-poles/?utm_source=mainrss
> ...


 
 I know that there must be some downside to living out in the boonies, but I think I would love it.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> C3g driver 300B output 42EC4/PY500 rectifiers and Lundahl transformers the best.


 

 Glen, will you be using cathode bias from here-on out, or are you still building with adjustable/ fixed bias for your amps?


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > C3g driver 300B output 42EC4/PY500 rectifiers and Lundahl transformers the best.
> ...


 
 I will continue to use fixed adjustable bias as it sounds better. And some of these new tubes run at a higher bias.
 Fixed adjustable is the only way to get the most out of them.


----------



## gibosi

A pair of Philips AZ50, NOS, NIB, manufactured by British Tungsram arrived in this morning's mail. British Tungsram Radio Works was established around 1930 as a subsidiary of Hungarian Tungsram. In 1952, it was acquired by Philips and put under Mullard management.
  
 The production code, EW1 J6C, tells us that this tube was manufactured in March, 1956. And in fact, the production code also tells us that it is not really an AZ50. It is actually an FW4-500.  (And yes, I knew this before I bought them. 
  
 EW = FW4-500, whereas, NE = AZ50. 
  
 Again, along with the 45-IU and U18/20, it appears that all these 4-volt rectifiers were considered to be interchangeable.


----------



## Rossliew

Received my Hexfreds today and putting it through its paces with a pair of Mullard 6080 and a single Tung Sol 6F8G.
  
 Listening with my Grado SR-125e makes it sound so punchy, tight and fast - almost solid state like in its grip of the bass with a hint of tube warmth in the mids. An absolutely good alternative to tubed rectifiers !


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> Received my Hexfreds today and putting it through its paces with a pair of Mullard 6080 and a single Tung Sol 6F8G.
> 
> Listening with my Grado SR-125e makes it sound so punchy, tight and fast - almost solid state like in its grip of the bass with a hint of tube warmth in the mids. An absolutely good alternative to tubed rectifiers !


 
 Grado's sound great with Glenn's amp.


----------



## gibosi

An observation... Rolling these European 4-pin 4-volt rectifiers, I have been struck by the variation in the thickness of the pins. For example, the Mullard FW4-500 pins slide completely into the adapter socket rather easily whereas the Tungsram FW4-500 (labeled as an AZ50) can be inserted no more than about half-way. If I try to force it in further, I can't extract the tube without damaging the adapter. In fact, I have re-glued this adapter with Gorilla Super Glue several times now... I wonder if two-part epoxy or other type of glue might work better?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> An observation... Rolling these European 4-pin 4-volt rectifiers, I have been struck by the variation in the thickness of the pins. For example, the Mullard FW4-500 pins slide completely into the adapter socket rather easily whereas the Tungsram FW4-500 (labeled as an AZ50) can be inserted no more than about half-way. If I try to force it in further, I can't extract the tube without damaging the adapter. In fact, I have re-glued this adapter with Gorilla Super Glue several times now... I wonder if two-part epoxy or other type of glue might work better?


 

 The socket on the adapter might not be to spec that would allow for differences in pins


----------



## gibosi

That makes sense. It seems as if the holes don't quite line up properly with the Tungsram making insertion difficult. I think I will pick up an adapter by a different vendor and maybe the fit will be better...


----------



## gibosi

A pair of "real" AZ50, NOS/NIB, arrived in this morning's mail. The production code on both tubes is 5B NEB which indicates that they were manufactured in Eindhoven, Holland, February, 1951. Like the 45-IU, FW4-500 and U18/20, the AZ50 can provide 250ma, comparable to a GZ37, so it is fine in a Glenn OTL running 6AS7 as output tubes.
  
 Unfortunately, these don't fit all that well into my yellow-top adapters either, but nonetheless, they do work. However, last night I ordered an adapter from a different vendor and hope the quality is a bit better.
  

  
 And a little box porn.


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> A pair of "real" AZ50, NOS/NIB, arrived in this morning's mail. The production code on both tubes is 5B NEB which indicates that they were manufactured in Eindhoven, Holland, February, 1951. Like the 45-IU, FW4-500 and U18/20, the AZ50 can provide 250ma, comparable to a GZ37, so it is fine in a Glenn OTL running 6AS7 as output tubes.
> 
> Unfortunately, these don't fit all that well into my yellow-top adapters either, but nonetheless, they do work. However, last night I ordered an adapter from a different vendor and hope the quality is a bit better.
> 
> ...




Where do you order the tubes and adapters from, Ken?


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Where do you order the tubes and adapters from, Ken?


 
  
 The vast majority of my tubes were purchased on eBay from various vendors.
  
 And also on ebay, I have found two adapters which allow the use of 4-volt European B-4 rectifiers in a 5-volt 5U4 socket.
  
 I am not all that impressed with this one, with the yellow top, but it is the one I am currently using and it does work:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/U18-FW4-500-tube-adapter-to-instead-274B-5U4G-U52-socket-1pcs-/261772342579
  
 And I have one of these on the way. As it is half again more expensive, I am hoping it is better:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/281951474535


----------



## whirlwind

Hey Ken....how many tubes do you figure you have


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> The vast majority of my tubes were purchased on eBay from various vendors.
> 
> And also on ebay, I have found two adapters which allow the use of 4-volt European B-4 rectifiers in a 5-volt 5U4 socket.
> 
> ...


 

 Many thanks for the links, Ken. Very tempted to try out the 4-volt rectifiers...do let us know if the more expensive adapters fit better


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Hey Ken....how many tubes do you figure you have


 
  
 I don't know for sure, but the number is something in excess of a 1000. That said, some of these are Little Dot tubes, that is pentodes, which are of no use in the OTL. And while 1000 tubes sounds like a lot, that number is dwarfed by the collections of a few others who often post here.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Ken....how many tubes do you figure you have
> ...


 
 Well, 1000 is a lot of tubes, and yes i have seen pictures of some of the other collections and they are quite stunning.....my wife thinks a couple of hundred is a lot


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Well, 1000 is a lot of tubes, and yes i have seen pictures of some of the other collections and they are quite stunning.....my wife thinks a couple of hundred is a lot


 
  
 My wife used to constantly give me grief about all my tubes... "Why do you need so many?"
  
 So one day, in response to her question, I asked her, "What's the problem? My tubes require very little space compared to all your shoes and purses. Oh, and why do you need so many shoes and purses?" And before she could answer I followed up with another question, "And by the way, how much money do you think you could get if you tried to sell your used shoes and purses?"
  
 No more grief... In fact, now when a box of tubes arrives in the mail, she actually feigns some interest. Life is good! lol


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Well, 1000 is a lot of tubes, and yes i have seen pictures of some of the other collections and they are quite stunning.....my wife thinks a couple of hundred is a lot
> ...


 
 Ha ha.
  
 My wife said to me about two-three weeks ago..."you have not gotten any tubes for awhile, whats up" ?
  
 I said to her her...." I am saving up for another pair of headphones "


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > whirlwind said:
> ...


 

 What phones are you getting?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > gibosi said:
> ...


 
 Hi Glenn.
  
 I will be getting a pair of ZMF Omni headphones, as soon as I can decide on what wood I want....Zach said about 4 to 5 week wait at the moment.
  
 They are planar headphones and 50 Ohm, so hoping my amp , with the 6336 tubes will be good enough...


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > whirlwind said:
> ...


 

 You can also try four 6AS7s and put the amp in 5998 mode might sound better then the 6336


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn, if I happen to use 6as7 in 5998 mode, would it kill the amp or the tubes?


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Glenn, if I happen to use 6as7 in 5998 mode, would it kill the amp or the tubes?


 
 No your amp has plenty of power to supply four 6AS7s


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > 2359glenn said:
> ...


 
 Great, i will try the 6336 and i will also try four 6AS7's
  
 I can use 5998 mode with four RCA 6AS7.....or do I need to use four 5998 tubes....I can do that as I have six 5998 tubes.


----------



## Rossliew

Do the four 6as7 tubes need to be matched?


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > whirlwind said:
> ...


 

 Try it both ways 6AS7 and 5998 and see what sounds best.


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Do the four 6as7 tubes need to be matched?


 

 Not necessary but it wouldn't heart. Try it with what you got now.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Will do....thanks Glenn


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Not necessary but it wouldn't heart. Try it with what you got now.




Thanks, Glenn


----------



## jhljhl

Can you sub 12au7 for a 6sn7? There is this adapter: http://www.ebay.com/itm/162115207286?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> Can you sub 12au7 for a 6sn7? There is this adapter: http://www.ebay.com/itm/162115207286?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 Yes. And you can also use E80CC/6085 with that adapter, a better tube in my opinion.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> Yes. And you can also use E80CC/6085 with that adapter, a better tube in my opinion.


 
 I think you can also use 12ax7 too but they are suppose to replace 6sl7s? I have some 12ax7 that I'd like to try in place of 6sn7.


----------



## gibosi

Yeah, the 12AX7 will work, but I have never tried one. The 12AX7 has an amplification factor of 100 compared to 20 for a 6SN7, and so I am not all that optimistic that it will sound good. That said, let us know how they sound.


----------



## gibosi

Received an Hungarian-made Tungsram PV 200/600 rectifier in today's mail. As the name suggests, it can do 600VDC at 200ma, similar to the AZ4, which I believe Glenn is using in his EL3N amp, and the Telefunken AZ12.
  
 As it can provide only 200ma, this rectifier is not suitable if you are using a pair of 6AS7 or six 6BL7 in a Glenn OTL. However, it is perfectly fine with a quad of 6BL7.
  
 The date code "n9" indicates that it was manufactured in April, 1956. Also, to the best of my knowledge, British Tungsram did not manufacture a version of the PV 200/600.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Received an Hungarian-made Tungsram PV 200/600 rectifier in today's mail. As the name suggests, it can do 600VDC at 200ma, similar to the AZ4, which I believe Glenn is using in his EL3N amp, and the Telefunken AZ12.
> 
> As it can provide only 200ma, this rectifier is not suitable if you are using a pair of 6AS7 or six 6BL7 in a Glenn OTL. However, it is perfectly fine with a quad of 6BL7.
> 
> The date code "n9" indicates that it was manufactured in April, 1956. Also, to the best of my knowledge, British Tungsram did not manufacture this tube.


 
 1956, nice gibosi.
  
 I love the fact that I can listen to Glenn's OTL  with tubes older than I am  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Add the fact that you do not have to spend much money on tubes to get great sound.
  
 I am listening to a pair of 1957 RCA 6AS7G and a 1953 12SN7GT Sylvania  'bad boy"....all for under $50
  
 Throw in a pitch black back round and it is all one could ask for ....especially for the money.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> 1956, nice gibosi.
> 
> I love the fact that I can listen to Glenn's OTL  with tubes older than I am
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, I am sad to say that these tubes are not older than I am... 
  
 Oh well... lol...  
  
 Anyway, first impressions, the Tungsram PV 200/600 sounds very good and I paid only $35. 
  

  
 Oh, the little red wire off to the right allows me to measure B+. And if my calculations are correct, in this configuration, that is, running four 6BX7 in a Glenn OTL, the PV 200/600 has a voltage drop of 27.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > 1956, nice gibosi.
> ...


 

 See what what the voltage drop is with 6AS7s as outputs?


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> See what what the voltage drop is with 6AS7s as outputs?


 
  
 Unfortunately for comparison purposes, the PV 200/600 can provide at most 200ma, and as it is my understanding that the 6AS7/6SN7 configuration requires at least 220ma, I did not think it wise to use it with a pair of 6AS7.
  
 However, I did compare the HEXFRED to my three reference tube rectifiers, a Cossor 53KU, a GEC U18/20 and a Philips/Sittard GZ34. And the results are very interesting, I think....
  

 Four 6BX7 (B+ = 323) Two 6AS7 (B+ = 257) Rectifier Measurement Vdrop MeasurementVdrop     HEXFRED3221256153KU3032023422U18/202923122433GZ34315824413
  
 The procedure, for those who might be interested.
  
 In Glenn's design, the true B+ can be found on pin-2 of any output tube. So in this way, for each rectifier, I measured true B+. Next, in order to calculate voltage drop, it is necessary to subtract the true B+ from the potential B+, that is, the value of B+ before the voltage drop. The easiest way to obtain this value is to use the HEXFRED. We know that the HEXFRED has a voltage drop of 1. So adding 1 to the measured value should equal the potential B+. (I am not at all sure of my terminology here, but I hope this clear.)
  
 As the four 6BX7 configuration requires considerably less current than the 6AS7, that is 140ma versus 220ma, we can see the relationship between total current draw and B+. And fortunately, the 6BX7 can easily handle more than 300 volts, so no harm.

  
 What I found most interesting is that the voltage drop of the 53KU and U18/20 changed very little, relatively speaking, compared to the GZ34, when switching from 6BX7 to 6AS7, But unfortunately, I have no idea why this is so.


----------



## gibosi

While I had a pair of 6AS7 installed, decided to measure a few more rectifiers... 
  
 (Sorry for the lousy formatting... Too lazy to insert and fill out a table.... lol 
  
 With two 6AS7G
 B+ = 257VDC
  
 Rectifier                                        Measurement    VDrop
  
 HEXFRED    Glenn                          256VDC             1VDC
 GZ34 Sittard                                  244VDC           13VDC
 53KU Cossor                                 234VDC            22VDC
 U18/20 GEC                                  224VDC            33VDC
 5Z3PA                                           221VDC           36VDC
 FW4-500 Mullard                            222VDC            35VDC
 AZ50 Eindhoven                            222VDC            35VDC
 FW4-500   Tungsram                     222VDC            35VDC
 GZ37 Mullard                                230VDC            27VDC
 3DG4                                           240VDC            17VDC
 GZ32                                           237VDC             20VDC


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> While I had a pair of 6AS7 installed, decided to measure a few more rectifiers...
> 
> (Sorry for the lousy formatting... Too lazy to insert and fill out a table.... lol
> 
> ...


 

 Looks like the GZ34 and 3DG4 are the best tubes


----------



## leftside

No wonder the GZ34 metal base are so popular.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> While I had a pair of 6AS7 installed, decided to measure a few more rectifiers...
> 
> (Sorry for the lousy formatting... Too lazy to insert and fill out a table.... lol
> 
> ...


 

 The transformer for the OTL was chosen to use the 3DG4. Low voltage drop and can handle 350ma plus I could buy
 them for $1.  The proper voltage for a 6AS7 is 120 with the 2 1/2s hooked in series each one gets 120 volts.
 The filament winding was chosen 0>3.3>5 so 5volt rectifiers can be used too.
 I don't feel any of these expensive rectifiers sound better then the 3DG4 and can't believe people spend $1000
 for TAK 274B rectifiers craziness.
 Have to be careful using some of these tubes if running 6336 tubes in 5998 mode as the current will go way up.
 OTL amps using the Lundahl power transformer and PY500 rectifiers can handle 1amp or 1000ma.


----------



## whirlwind

When I first ordered my amp, I remember you suggesting the 3DG4 to me Glenn, so I bought one....then I changed my mind and decided to go with the PY500 rectifiers.
  
 If I am not mistaken the tube to the right in this picture is a 3DG4, the one with the angled plates.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> When I first ordered my amp, I remember you suggesting the 3DG4 to me Glenn, so I bought one....then I changed my mind and decided to go with the PY500 rectifiers.
> 
> If I am not mistaken the tube to the right in this picture is a 3DG4, the one with the angled plates.


 

 That is a 5AW4 it can handle 250ma it is another good one to use in the OTL.
 Not for you though.


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks for the clarification Glenn....I know that I can not use it.
  
 If you want it Ken, shoot me a pm and I will send it your way.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Thanks for the clarification Glenn....I know that I can not use it.
> 
> If you want it Ken, shoot me a pm and I will send it your way.


 
  
 I already have a couple of 5AW4 so I am good. But thanks! 
  
 And this reminds me that I forgot to measure the 5AW4, 5R4GY and VU71. I also have a few others, the 5U4G, 1861 and 1815, but they cannot provide enough current for a pair of 6AS7...


----------



## gibosi

Updated to include all the rectifiers in my possession that can provide at least 250ma and are thus suitable for use with a pair of 6AS7. I also have a Mullard GZ33, but it is out on loan to a friend.
  
 Edit: Oh, I also have an AX50 which is a mercury-vapor rectifier. But as it has a tendency to arc, I don't use it...
  
 In terms of voltage drop, the best rectifiers are the GZ34, 3DG4, GZ32 and 53KU. Of these, I prefer the sound of the 53KU and GZ34. But of course, YMMV. 
  
 With two 6AS7G
 B+ = 257VDC
  
 Rectifier                                        Measurement    VDrop

 HEXFRED Glenn                                256VDC          1VDC
 GZ34 Sittard                                    244VDC        13VDC
 53KU Cossor                                    234VDC        22VDC
 U18/20 GEC                                     224VDC        33VDC
 5Z3PA Shuguang                              221VDC        36VDC
 FW4-500 Mullard                              222VDC        35VDC
 AZ50 Eindhoven                               222VDC        35VDC
 FW4-500 Tungsram                          222VDC        35VDC
 GZ37 Mullard                                  230VDC        27VDC
 3DG4 Tung Sol                                240VDC        17VDC
 GZ32 Mullard                                  237VDC        20VDC
 VU71 Canadian Westinghouse            227VDC        30VDC
 5R4GY RCA                                    219VDC        38VDC
 5AW4 ? labeled CBS Hytron              229VDC        29VDC


----------



## whirlwind

Great work Ken.


----------



## raybone0566

Know how you guys like to post some food pics, so here's a few Labor Day southern style meal


----------



## 2359glenn

raybone0566 said:


> Know how you guys like to post some food pics, so here's a few Labor Day southern style meal


 

 It's been awhile since there was some good food pictures.   Looks familiar being I live in the South
 Good going.
 I will have to take some to post.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Updated to include all the rectifiers in my possession that can provide at least 250ma and are thus suitable for use with a pair of 6AS7. I also have a Mullard GZ33, but it is out on loan to a friend.
> 
> Edit: Oh, I also have an AX50 which is a mercury-vapor rectifier. But as it has a tendency to arc, I don't use it...
> 
> ...


 

 Yeoman's work right here.  Very nice.
  
 I'd suggest adding a garden variety 5U4G and 5U4GB (any USA brand) to serve as a comparative basis against the other tubes since it is used so commonly by so many people.
  
 I can't say I was surprised to see the 5R4GY have the biggest drop.  I think this tube sounds very lovely in applications where the B+ requirement of the circuit is very low (I'm subbing one in place of what is supposed to be a 5Y3 in my Inspire), but in amps with higher requirements it's just too soft.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> I'd suggest adding a garden variety 5U4G and 5U4GB (any USA brand) to serve as a comparative basis against the other tubes since it is used so commonly by so many people.


 
  
 I have two RCA 5U4G, one from the 1940s and one from the 1950s, but since this rectifier has a maximum DC output current of 225ma, Glenn has discouraged me from using it with 6AS7 output tubes. However, the upgraded 5U4GB is able to provide about 275ma and they are cheap. So for the good of the order, I will pick one up and add it to the list.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd suggest adding a garden variety 5U4G and 5U4GB (any USA brand) to serve as a comparative basis against the other tubes since it is used so commonly by so many people.
> ...


 

 The 5U4GB is a good tube better then the 5U4G but most people don't like it.
 I think it is not due to the sound but the 5U4G looks cool.


----------



## gibosi

The white Suzier-made B4 to 5U4G adapter arrived today. First impressions, the build quality is much better. I do not expect to ever have the need to repair them.
  

  

  
 However, fit continues to be a problem. Evidently, the thickness of the pins on B4 bases varies considerably from manufacturer to manufacturer. And as with the yellow-top adapter, some tubes, such as the Tungsram PV 200/600, cannot be inserted completely without more force than I am comfortable using. And then, of course, considerable force would also necessary to remove the tube and the tube could easily be damaged...
  
 Perhaps with time the socket will loosen up somewhat. On the other hand, even though it is ugly, inserting the tube until good and snug, typically about half-way for some, such as this Tungsram, works fine.
  
 So my conclusion is the Suzier adapters are better, but not perfect. That said, given the variability in B4 bases, building a "perfect" adapter may not be possible.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> I have two RCA 5U4G, one from the 1940s and one from the 1950s, but since this rectifier has a maximum DC output current of 225ma, Glenn has discouraged me from using it with 6AS7 output tubes. However, the upgraded 5U4GB is able to provide about 275ma and they are cheap. So for the good of the order, I will pick one up and add it to the list.


 
  
 A short run for measuring purposes shouldn't hurt a 5U4G.  Daily use would greatly shorten its usable lifespan, but you wouldn't be so far over current that it would go poof or anything.  I accidentally ran my 45s at 200% of max plate current recently and they just shrugged.  I think the heat buildup is the key factor.  If I'd left them on that way for hours they'd probably be a little less fine I'm guessing.
  
 I've run a 5U4G in my OTL and had no issue.  Didn't like the sound, but I never liked how a 5U4G sounded in anything personally.


----------



## gibosi

xcalibur255 said:


> A short run for measuring purposes shouldn't hurt a 5U4G.....


 
  
 Today I ordered an RCA 5U4GB for $5 and when it arrives will measure both.


----------



## gibosi

gibosi said:


> Today I ordered an RCA 5U4GB for $5 and when it arrives will measure both.


 
  
 These arrived yesterday and last night I was able to calculate vdrop. Compared to common 5-volt rectifiers:
  
 Rectifier                            Measurement    VDrop
  
 HEXFRED    Glenn                256VDC          1VDC
 GZ34 Sittard                         244VDC        13VDC
 53KU Cossor                        234VDC        22VDC
 GZ37 Mullard                       230VDC        27VDC
 3DG4 Tung Sol                    240VDC        17VDC
 GZ32 Mullard                       237VDC        20VDC
 5R4GY RCA                        219VDC        38VDC
 5AW4  CBS Hytron              229VDC         28VDC
  
 5U4G RCA (1944)                212VDC         45VDC
 5U4G RCA (1949)                184VDC         73VDC
 5U4GB RCA (1963)              185VDC         72VDC
 5U4GB Sylvania (D-getter)    227VDC         30VDC
  
 The 1944 RCA is the older design with hanging filaments. The 1949 RCA appears to be identical to the one reviewed by Dubstep Girl. And both 5U4Bs have rectangular getters, so late 1950's to early 1960's. To say the least, I am very surprised that these four 5U4-types are so different.....


----------



## gibosi

I might be the only one with a Glenn OTL rolling 4-volt rectifiers with 6BL7/6BX7 output, so perhaps this rectifier is of little to no interest to anyone else but me?
  
 Anyway, below is a Philips Miniwatt 1815. There appears to be a production code of some kind, "1C", but it does not conform with the codes used by Philips since 1948. The old code and the graphics style leads me to think this was manufactured in the mid-1940s in Eindhoven.
  
 Edit: Oh, it has a vdrop of 28VDC.
  

  
 And like the Hungarian Tungsram PV 200/600, this has four hanging filaments, instead of only two, which was much more common, for example, the 1944 RCA 5U4G.


----------



## 2359glenn

The internals of this tube look like the PX4 except the PX4 has that crazy side contact base.
 I use the PX4 in the EL3N amp and get a perfect 250 volts B+ with it


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> The internals of this tube look like the PX4 except the PX4 has that crazy side contact base.
> I use the PX4 in the EL3N amp and get a perfect 250 volts B+ with it


 
  
 Perhaps this is an AZ4?


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> The internals of this tube look like the PX4 except the PX4 has that crazy side contact base.
> I use the PX4 in the EL3N amp and get a perfect 250 volts B+ with it




Glenn

What is the update on your EL3N amp? Are you going to send it to one of our members here for independent evaluation?


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The internals of this tube look like the PX4 except the PX4 has that crazy side contact base.
> ...


 

 Yes Still using it now.
 Have to get the money to send it to some one.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> Yes Still using it now.
> Have to get the money to send it to some one.


 
  
 Great.
  
 How is the sound compared to the OTL and 300B?


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes Still using it now.
> ...


 

 Different then the OTL as it is a amp with output transformers and it can drive low impedance phones.
 I think it sounds as good as the 300B just less power. Uses the same Lundahl transformers and high quality parts.


----------



## raybone0566

2359glenn said:


> Different then the OTL as it is a amp with output transformers and it can drive low impedance phones.
> I think it sounds as good as the 300B just less power. Uses the same Lundahl transformers and high quality parts.


Glenn,
Are you going to be offering this amp in the future? Very interested


----------



## 2359glenn

raybone0566 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Different then the OTL as it is a amp with output transformers and it can drive low impedance phones.
> ...


 
 Yes
 Might sell this one and build another.
 Not the best for a tube roller not many tubes to roll only the older EL3 and different brands of EL3N tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> raybone0566 said:
> 
> 
> > 2359glenn said:
> ...


 
 Interesting, what are you thinking of building, Glenn ?
  
 Something totally different, or a modification of the EL3N amp ?


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Might sell this one and build another.
> Not the best for a tube roller not many tubes to roll only the older EL3 and different brands of EL3N tubes.


 
  
 For those who are not inveterate tube rollers like myself, maybe this is an advantage? lol 
  
 With an SQ comparable to the 300B, for considerably less money, this could be very appealing to those folks who want a transformer-coupled amp to use with low-impedance phones. And further, EL3 and EL3N are dirt cheap compared to 300Bs, which makes the total package even more affordable.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > raybone0566 said:
> ...


 

 I was just saying if I sell it I will build another just like it.
 Sounds great as good as a 300B amp just not the power 3 watts instead of 8 with a 300B.
 I don't listen that loud anymore to need 8 watts .
 And the EL3N is $25 or so allot cheaper then a good 300B at $1K+


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> I was just saying if I sell it I will build another just like it.
> Sounds great as good as a 300B amp just not the power 3 watts instead of 8 with a 300B.
> I don't listen that loud anymore to need 8 watts .
> And the EL3N is $25 or so allot cheaper then a good 300B at $1K+


 

 Glenn, would you say the amp sounds more like a solid state amp or the typical lusher tube sound?


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I was just saying if I sell it I will build another just like it.
> ...


 

 More the tube sound I would say but it has been a long time since I listened to SS.


----------



## 2359glenn

The only thing I might change is the rectifier to a 5 volt octal so it could use all the 5 volt rectifiers 5Y3 , 5U4 GZ34 , GZ37.


----------



## gibosi

I think this is a very good idea. And then, if someone wants to use the AZ4, as in your original design, inexpensive adapters are available.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The only thing I might change is the rectifier to a 5 volt octal so it could use all the 5 volt rectifiers 5Y3 , 5U4 GZ34 , GZ37.


 
  
 That sounds interesting, could roll rectifiers


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing I might change is the rectifier to a 5 volt octal so it could use all the 5 volt rectifiers 5Y3 , 5U4 GZ34 , GZ37.
> ...


 

 I should have done that in the first place but I wanted it to use all crazy side pin tubes.
 And the AZ4 gives a perfect 250 volt B+ to the EL3Ns.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> I should have done that in the first place but I wanted it to use all crazy side pin tubes.
> And the AZ4 gives a perfect 250 volt B+ to the EL3Ns.




Could one use a hexfred in place of the AZ4?


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I should have done that in the first place but I wanted it to use all crazy side pin tubes.
> ...


 
 Yes the EL3N can actually handle 275 volts and all filter capacitors are 450 volts.


----------



## gibosi

What is the minimum current that a rectifier needs to be able to provide in your EL3N amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> What is the minimum current that a rectifier needs to be able to provide in your EL3N amp?


 

 100ma would be enough I was going to use a AZ1 but had to much voltage drop so switched to the AZ4


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > 2359glenn said:
> ...


 
 Could you make it to use both a 5 volt octal rectifier and also the AZ4
  
 AZ4 does sound like the perfect tube for the EL3N's
  
 I agree that three watts should be plenty for any headphone...maybe the exception being the HE-6......that headphone is not on my radar anyway


----------



## gibosi

Unfortunately, the AZ4 uses that wacky European side contact base. So in order for his amp to use both, Glenn would have to install two rectifier sockets, one octal and one side contact base. But as I mentioned above, the easiest solution to allow the use of 4-volt European rectifiers is to use inexpensive adapters as I am doing.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/191955967286


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, the AZ4 uses that wacky European side contact base. So in order for his amp to use both, Glenn would have to install two rectifier sockets, one octal and one side contact base. But as I mentioned above, the easiest solution to allow the use of 4-volt European rectifiers is to use inexpensive adapters as I am doing.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/191955967286




The description mentions AZ1....would this be suitable in place of an AZ4 as well?


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> The description mentions AZ1....would this be suitable in place of an AZ4 as well?


 
  
 Yes, the AZ1 and AZ4 have the same pin-out.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks for the confirmation, Ken


----------



## gibosi

Also, the AZ12 is electrically identical to the AZ4, but it uses yet a different base, a German Steel Y8A base.  And so you would need yet another adapter:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/281951474501
  
 As the name of the base implies, these are often German-made tubes, such as Valvo, Lorenz and Telefunken. Below is a Telefunken AZ12, manufactured in Berlin, January, 1942.
  
 Caution: The AZ4 and AZ12 can provide a maximum current of 200ma. And therefore, they are not suitable for use in an OTL running 6AS7. However, with a quad of 6BL7 or 6BX7, they are more than adequate.
  

  
 And like the AZ4, PV 200/600 and 1815, this tube also has four hanging cathode filaments.


----------



## Khragon

My Elrog 300B failed today... 
  
 Making popping sound, contacted Thomas (Elrog's new owner) and no luck getting these replace under warranty (expired).  I got these as replacement for my other failed pair, and is supposedly an improved version.  Given the short warranty and high failure rate, can't recommend Elrog 300B atm.  Too bad...


----------



## Rossliew

khragon said:


> My Elrog 300B failed today...
> 
> Making popping sound, contacted Thomas (Elrog's new owner) and no luck getting these replace under warranty (expired).  I got these as replacement for my other failed pair, and is supposedly an improved version.  Given the short warranty and high failure rate, can't recommend Elrog 300B atm.  Too bad...




That sounds like an expensive failure...I feel u man


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> My Elrog 300B failed today...
> 
> Making popping sound, contacted Thomas (Elrog's new owner) and no luck getting these replace under warranty (expired).  I got these as replacement for my other failed pair, and is supposedly an improved version.  Given the short warranty and high failure rate, can't recommend Elrog 300B atm.  Too bad...


 

 To bad these were good sounding tubes.
 Your amp has exactly 5 volts to the heaters like Elrog pointed out is a must for these tubes.
 Guess I won't be buying any.


----------



## rosgr63

What a shame......


----------



## Khragon

Yeah, shame. These do have very clean clear sound, but 3 months life is unacceptable, I only started using them after receiving Glenn 300B amp at around June.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> Yes, the AZ1 and AZ4 have the same pin-out.


 
 Tried some siemens e80cc in my wa5le - they very sound. Like a cross between a 6922 and a 6sn7 but leaning toward the 6922 sound. Thanks for the rec!


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> Tried some siemens e80cc in my wa5le - they very sound. Like a cross between a 6922 and a 6sn7 but leaning toward the 6922 sound. Thanks for the rec!


 
  
 Glad you like them. 
  
 Only Philips and Tungsram manufactured the E80CC and I suspect that your Siemens were actually manufactured by Tungsram. If so, they have round holes in the plates and shiny rhodium pins. Philips manufactured this tube in Eindhoven and Hamburg in the mid-1950s (pinched waist and usually very expensive), Heerlen through the 1960's and Long Island, NY in the 1970's, so there are a number of "flavors" to try.


----------



## whirlwind

khragon said:


> My Elrog 300B failed today...
> 
> Making popping sound, contacted Thomas (Elrog's new owner) and no luck getting these replace under warranty (expired).  I got these as replacement for my other failed pair, and is supposedly an improved version.  Given the short warranty and high failure rate, can't recommend Elrog 300B atm.  Too bad...


 
 Sorry to hear this.
  
 When you lose one of these tubes, it hurts the wallet.


----------



## whirlwind

I may be looking into getting another set of 6336 A/B tubes.  Planar cans should be here soon.
  
 I know most say they have not noticed a difference sound from different brands.
  
 Anybody here that has and would recommend a certain tube ?


----------



## musicman59

jhljhl said:


> Tried some siemens e80cc in my wa5le - they very sound. Like a cross between a 6922 and a 6sn7 but leaning toward the 6922 sound. Thanks for the rec!


 
 What adapters are you using?


----------



## gibosi

I am fairly certain that all 6336 were manufactured by Chatham. And even after Tung-Sol acquired Chatham, the 6336 continued to be manufactured in the same facility. So the brand on the tube makes no difference. But of course, there may well be differences between tubes manufactured at different times.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I am fairly certain that all 6336 were manufactured by Chatham. And even after Tung-Sol acquired Chatham, the 6336 continued to be manufactured in the same facility. So the brand on the tube makes no difference. But of course, there may well be differences between tubes manufactured at different times.


 
 Thanks Ken, ........I have a pair made in 1971.......I may keep my eyes peeled for some thing else, or maybe just see how these ones I have do with the planars before I buy anything.


----------



## gibosi

musicman59 said:


> What adapters are you using?


 
  
 The E80CC has the same pinout as the 12AU7. And therefore, if you can use 12 volt tubes, a 6CG7 to 6SN7 adapter will do. For example:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-TOP-GOLD-PLATED-6CG7-TO-6SN7-6N8P-CV181-TUBE-CONVERTER-ADAPTER-/191191261876
  
 But if you need to run it at 6 volts, a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter similar to this one:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-TOP-GOLD-PLATED-12AU7-ECC82-TO-6SN7-6N8P-TUBE-CONVERTER-ADAPTER-/200962165794


----------



## musicman59

gibosi said:


> The E80CC has the same pinout as the 12AU7. And therefore, if you can use 12 volt tubes, a 6CG7 to 6SN7 adapter will do. For example:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-TOP-GOLD-PLATED-6CG7-TO-6SN7-6N8P-CV181-TUBE-CONVERTER-ADAPTER-/191191261876
> 
> ...


 
 My amp right now is a WA5-LE v1 (Glenn is building me 300B right now so soon the Woo will go to the sale market).


----------



## gibosi

musicman59 said:


> My amp right now is a WA5-LE v1 (Glenn is building me 300B right now so soon the Woo will go to the sale market).


 
  
 Checking out the web page for the WA5-LE, it does not appear that that amp can run 12 volt tubes, ie, 12SN7, so you would need a pair of 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapters, like this one:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-TOP-GOLD-PLATED-12AU7-ECC82-TO-6SN7-6N8P-TUBE-CONVERTER-ADAPTER-/200962165794
  
 However, Glenn does not typically use 6SN7s in his 300B, but instead, a pair of C3g. Building an adapter to use an E80CC in place of a C3g would not be trivial and I doubt that such an adapter even exists. And it probably wouldn't be worth the effort...


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> musicman59 said:
> 
> 
> > My amp right now is a WA5-LE v1 (Glenn is building me 300B right now so soon the Woo will go to the sale market).
> ...


 

 I have a adapter that would allow 12SN7s to run in a WA-5


----------



## jhljhl

musicman59 said:


> My amp right now is a WA5-LE v1 (Glenn is building me 300B right now so soon the Woo will go to the sale market).


 

 Sell me your tubes! lol. I might go with an eddie current because woo wa5le cost of ownership aka tubes is too high (too many tubes!). A Balancing Act = 1 6sl7/6sn7. Or Studio Jr= waiting to see it released. Or a Glenn 300b of course!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've always wanted to hear an Eddie Current 445.  I'm curious if it's just my amp with a 2x price markup or if it actually sounds substantially different.


----------



## Khragon

Just measured by Elrog 300B, one measured 35 and the other measured 50.  These tubes never measure high even when new, so look like one is still pretty good, the other is very low.  Not sure if I can do anything with these, may just throw them on eBay, full disclosure of course, see how much they can fetch.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Just measured by Elrog 300B, one measured 35 and the other measured 50.  These tubes never measure high even when new, so look like one is still pretty good, the other is very low.  Not sure if I can do anything with these, may just throw them on eBay, full disclosure of course, see how much they can fetch.


 

 Maybe there is someone with a bad one and needs a single replacement.
 Or Just put the good one up for sale.


----------



## gibosi

Another tube that perhaps no one else is interested in... lol 
  
 A Valvo AZ12 rectifier arrived in today's mail, below, pictured next to a Telefunken AZ12. There is an abbreviated production code, on the base, between the pins, "HB", which is the Philips code for the AZ12. However, the date and factory codes are missing. My assumption, based on construction, is late 1940's. And based on pictures of Valvo AZ12 from the mid-1950's, on which I can read the entire production code, it was likely manufactured by the Philips subsidiary, Wiener Radio Werke “WIRAG”, located in Vienna, Austria.
  
 The base is a little loose, so will need to re-glue it later, but for now, it is powering the amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Another tube that perhaps no one else is interested in... lol
> 
> A Valvo AZ12 rectifier arrived in today's mail, below, pictured next to a Telefunken AZ12. There is an abbreviated production code, on the base, between the pins, "HB", which is the Philips code for the AZ12. However, the date and factory codes are missing. My assumption, based on construction, is late 1940's. And based on pictures of Valvo AZ12 from the mid-1950's, on which I can read the entire production code, it was likely manufactured by the Philips subsidiary, Wiener Radio Werke “WIRAG”, located in Vienna, Austria.
> 
> The base is a little loose, so will need to re-glue it later, but for now, it is powering the amp.


 

 Tubes that nobody is interested in are the best ones. You can get great tubes for near nothing that is why I used the 3DG4 a great tube that almost nobody could use.
 I also use the 42EC4 I have bought these great tubes for $1.00 each cant beat that. 3DG4 can handle 350ma 42EC4  1000ma.


----------



## gibosi

I wish these AZ12 cost only $1.00! lol. But for sure, they are still a good bit cheaper than many 5-volt rectifiers.
  
 And I have a Holland-made 1817 on its way to me, a 300ma rectifier, so pretty powerful.


----------



## Rossliew

I have to agree with Glenn the 3DG4 sounds awesome for the money and they are pretty quiet as well.
  
 Ken, would those AZ12 tubes you have work for my iteration of the Glenn OTL?


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Ken, would those AZ12 tubes you have work for my iteration of the Glenn OTL?


 
  
 The AZ12 can provide only 200ma, and therefore, it is not suitable for use with two 6AS7. But if you replace the 6AS7s with four 6BL7s, then it will work fine in your amp. Also, the AZ12 has a Y8A base, so you will need an adapter:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281951474501


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> The AZ12 can provide only 200ma, and therefore, it is not suitable for use with two 6AS7. But if you replace the 6AS7s with four 6BL7s, then it will work fine in your amp. Also, the AZ12 has a Y8A base, so you will need an adapter:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281951474501


 

 Thanks for the clarification. I do have a pair of quad 6BL7s with adapters for use with the amp. Shall have to check out the AZ12 then...and perhaps the 1817 tube as well..
  
 EDIT : Just saw how expensive the AZ12 tubes were...so, i shall hold back on them for now


----------



## gibosi

Have you tried the 5AW4? It will work with 6AS7 and doesn't require an adapter. Plus, prices are pretty reasonable.
  
 The general consensus is that plates with the inverted V pattern as below sound the best.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> Another tube that perhaps no one else is interested in... lol




I always applaud your tube escapades (mostly silently but still).


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Have you tried the 5AW4? It will work with 6AS7 and doesn't require an adapter. Plus, prices are pretty reasonable.
> 
> The general consensus is that plates with the inverted V pattern as below sound the best.


 

 I have sent these with amps before I might still have some.
 These are nice tubes and not Expensive I don't think many people know about them.


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> Have you tried the 5AW4? It will work with 6AS7 and doesn't require an adapter. Plus, prices are pretty reasonable.
> 
> The general consensus is that plates with the inverted V pattern as below sound the best.




Thanks, Ken. I suppose these are more reasonable to own at current economic climates LOL



2359glenn said:


> I have sent these with amps before I might still have some.
> These are nice tubes and not Expensive I don't think many people know about them.




Give me a quote for one of em?


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I do have a pair of quad 6BL7s with adapters for use with the amp. Shall have to check out the AZ12 then...and perhaps the 1817 tube as well..
> 
> EDIT : Just saw how expensive the AZ12 tubes were...so, i shall hold back on them for now


 
  
 In my opinion, the "Buy it Now" prices for these European 4-volt rectifiers are unreasonably high. In my experience, these tubes sell for considerably less when put up for auction. For example, a Miniwatt 1817 rectifier arrived today. At auction, I paid $23.00. So my advice is to skip the overpriced BIN listings and wait for the tube you want to be put up for auction.
  
 According to the Radio Museum, this tube was manufactured by Philips in their Eindhoven factory.There are no recognizable production codes, so my guess is this was manufactured before 1948, but judging by construction, after the conclusion of WWII. This is a fairly powerful rectifier, providing 300ma, so it can be used in a Glenn OTL with 6AS7s.


----------



## whirlwind

New headphones have arrived today.
  
 Giving them a spin with your OTL amp now Glenn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 6336 Tubes running in 5998 mode along with C3g's as drivers.
  

  
  
 My hat is off to Zach also....impeccable build quality on the headphones. Custom made here in the USA...just like your amps


----------



## lukeap69

Initial impressions about the Omni/OTL pairing?


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> New headphones have arrived today.
> 
> Giving them a spin with your OTL amp now Glenn
> 
> ...


 

 How do they sound?
 Is the OTL driving them properly?


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Initial impressions about the Omni/OTL pairing?


 
 Very nice.
  


2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > New headphones have arrived today.
> ...


 
  
 Great synergy!
  
 This is my first planar headphone ,  the tone and synergy with your amp is great.....I will be getting a couple more pair of 6336 tubes  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Bass and sound stage have went beyond my expectations.
  
 You sir, make wonderful amps


----------



## Rossliew

Imagine if Glenn's amps have tons of marketing dollars behind it, it'd outsell a lot of other amps and probably be priced double or triple the amounts he asks for currently...so let's keep it low yea


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> Imagine if Glenn's amps have tons of marketing dollars behind it, it'd outsell a lot of other amps and probably be priced double or triple the amounts he asks for currently...so let's keep it low yea


 
  
 +1
  
 I was fairly confident that the OTL would sound pretty good with the planars.
  
 It has even exceeded my expectations, even though others told me i would be fine.
  
 I will try different tubes eventually, but just enjoying the new sound for now.....bass has some nice weight to it .....these cans are much fun


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> +1
> 
> I was fairly confident that the OTL would sound pretty good with the planars.
> 
> ...


 

 Need to check out those Omnis..are they heavy? the wood cups look pretty solid and hefty. The OTL is a match made in heaven with Grados as well. Never heard them sound so good!


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > +1
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, +1 with the Grado's, they sound great with the OTL.
  
 The Omni is heavy, especially will you feel it in your hands, they are large wooden cups, no laminates over plastic.....these are heavy to feel them...but some how the weight sort of disappears when you put them on  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I had them on for a very long time yesterday and the weight was not a problem at all and the ear pads are very comfy also.
  
 Some woods that Zach uses are heavier than others...I think mine fall some where in the middle.


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, +1 with the Grado's, they sound great with the OTL.
> 
> The Omni is heavy, especially will you feel it in your hands, they are large wooden cups, no laminates over plastic.....these are heavy to feel them...but some how the weight sort of disappears when you put them on
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the reply...what about the sound? similar to Grados? i listen to metal mostly so am wondering if these were suitable or if they are voiced for more audiophile type of tunes..


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, +1 with the Grado's, they sound great with the OTL.
> 
> The Omni is heavy, especially will you feel it in your hands, they are large wooden cups, no laminates over plastic.....these are heavy to feel them...but some how the weight sort of disappears when you put them on
> 
> ...




I just imagine how the 300ohms new headphones being developed by Zach pair with Glenn's OTL. I reckon it will be a delicious pairing. I hope they would be lighter than Omni.


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, +1 with the Grado's, they sound great with the OTL.
> ...


 
  
 No....in a way they are the complete opposite of Grados.
  
 The Omni has much more on the low end as where the Grado has much more in the treble and are more transparent....both have wonderful mids....the Omni wins the sound stage and it is pretty impressive for a mostly closed headphone.
  
 It fits wonderfully with my Grado RS1 and Senn HD800
  
 The Grado being more transparent and the treble is well extended
  
 The Omni is more bass oriented with wonderful sub bass....treble not as much extended
  
 The HD800..is much more even across the whole spectrum with very large sound stage and wonderful detail retrieval of the instrument the furthest away, incredible.
  
 All cans have great detail retrieval....the Omni comes with two sets of pads, I have not tried the cow hide pads yet....suppose to give a darker treble and a small increase in bass.
  
 These three cans pretty much cover everything for me....nothing a like and they all bring something different to the table.
  
 I will learn much more about the omni will more listening....I know the Grados and HD800 well as I have listened for years with these.
  
 I am very excited to see how the Omni fairs with tube rolling....damn the HD800 is just wonderful with being able to hear the differences, even when they seem subtle.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, +1 with the Grado's, they sound great with the OTL.
> ...


 
  
 That pairing should be pure bliss.
  
 Probably lighter than Omni...but still have the beautiful full wooden cups, so will have some weight to them. They look like they will use gimbals and rods also instaed of the large metal sliders that the Omni uses.
  
 I actually like the sliders though, they work great.
  
 The different woods Zach uses is really cool and he has many to choose from...hard to make a choice actually.
  
 I hope the new dynamic design can pull off the same wonderful bass.


----------



## lukeap69

That's what I was hoping for Joe. Time to start saving up...


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> No....in a way they are the complete opposite of Grados.
> 
> The Omni has much more on the low end as where the Grado has much more in the treble and are more transparent....both have wonderful mids....the Omni wins the sound stage and it is pretty impressive for a mostly closed headphone.
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting take on the Omnis..i still need to get an RS1 and now this comes along..i just don't like waiting for my cans...arrghh!


----------



## gibosi

A few more AZ12 rectifiers arrived today. Again, the AZ12 can provide at most 200ma of current, so they are too wimpy to use with 6AS7's in Glenn's OTL. However, with a quad of 6BL7, they are more than adequate.
  
 First, a pair of Tesla AZ12 made in Czechoslovakia. These tend to be pretty inexpensive. I paid about $20 for both. However, as I have yet to try them, I have no idea if I got a bargain... or if I overpaid... lol.
  
 The tube on the right, with the mica spacers on top, was manufactured in September, 1957. The tube on the left, February, 1951.
  

  
 And next, a bit of a splurge... A Telefunken AZ12 with mesh plates.
  
 My Telefunken AZ12 with sheetmetal plates seems a bit peaky in the treble to me. Having read that the mesh plate versions were a bit smoother, thought I would try to get one. In the end, I paid $65 for it at auction, which isn't too bad for mesh plates, but again, as I have yet to try it, I have no idea if I got a bargain... or not....
  
 The one of the left, with sheet-metal plates, was manufactured in January, 1941. The one on the right, with mesh plates, was manufactured in February, 1939. It's kind of interesting to consider that these were manufactured in Berlin during WWII.
  

  
 And if the mesh plates don't sound any better, I can still enjoy the light show.


----------



## leftside

Must looks great in a darkened room!


----------



## raybone0566

Been using this combo today. They sound really good with the Glenn amp


----------



## raybone0566

Looking for a couple new 5u4g tubes. Any suggestions, brand, sellers, thanks


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> A few more AZ12 rectifiers arrived today. Again, the AZ12 can provide at most 200ma of current, so they are too wimpy to use with 6AS7's in Glenn's OTL. However, with a quad of 6BL7, they are more than adequate.
> 
> First, a pair of Tesla AZ12 made in Czechoslovakia. These tend to be pretty inexpensive. I paid about $20 for both. However, as I have yet to try them, I have no idea if I got a bargain... or if I overpaid... lol.
> 
> ...


 

 Neat I have a globe mesh plate #80/280 in my preamp nice to look at at night


----------



## gibosi




----------



## Rossliew

That's very nice, Ken!


----------



## whirlwind

raybone0566 said:


> Been using this combo today. They sound really good with the Glenn amp


 
  
 Yeah, color me impressed with Glenns amp and the planar sound!


----------



## whirlwind

OK I have tried four 6AS7 tubes with the Omni as you suggested, Glenn, and yes indeed it does sound very good.
  
 When I tried this with my HD800 headphone many months ago, I did not find much improvement over just one tube per channel, and felt i was burning two extra tubes for nothing.
  
 How ever with the planar headphone this sounds really nice, lots of weight and punch to the bass and very dynamic.
  
 The 6336 tubes also work very well.
  
 I will need to listen for awhile and see about the sound, but I always have loved the tone of 5998 tubes.
  

  

  
 I may try four 6080 tubes next weekend and see how those sound.
  
 Can I actually use the 5998 switch in the on position when using say, RCA 6AS7G tubes.....or should i have the switch off for those ?
  
 It makes for a nice difference with the 5998 tubes....too much for regular 6AS7G tube maybe.


----------



## SonicTrance

whirlwind said:


> OK I have tried four 6AS7 tubes with the Omni as you suggested, Glenn, and yes indeed it does sound very good.
> 
> When I tried this with my HD800 headphone many months ago, I did not find much improvement over just one tube per channel, and felt i was burning two extra tubes for nothing.
> 
> ...


 
 I believe Glenn is already running the 6AS7's pretty hot at 100mA. So don't use those tubes with the 5998 switch on, they will get too much current.
  
 Nice setup btw!


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> OK I have tried four 6AS7 tubes with the Omni as you suggested, Glenn, and yes indeed it does sound very good.
> 
> When I tried this with my HD800 headphone many months ago, I did not find much improvement over just one tube per channel, and felt i was burning two extra tubes for nothing.
> 
> ...


 

 It will be OK with four 6AS7s to turn on the switch not with two unless they are Russian 6H13s that can handle more current.


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

Might sound good with four 6AS7s.
 But would assume the 5998s would sound better.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Might sound good with four 6AS7s.
> But would assume the 5998s would sound better.


 
  I have four Chatham 6AS7 tubes, I will try them sometime soon.
  
 I may buy a few more RCA 6AS7 tubes also.
  
 They sound dang good with just a pair of 5998 tubes and the C3g drivers.
  
 I do not own any of the Russian tubes, but as cheap as they are, I could buy a few of those also.


----------



## jelt2359

While waiting for my GEL3N to arrive (should be this week) I picked up a used GOTL and have been having some fun with it. Actually, going back and forth between my GOTL and my Apex Teton really made me appreciate the strengths of each. The Apex Teton is clearer, more resolving, and incisive. It also has a more sparkling treble that nonetheless is sweet and never peaky. OTOH the Glenn is warmer, with has a beautiful tonality that's never syrupy. It also has better pace. Considering the price difference between the two... the Glenn _more _than holds its own. 
  
 Glenn tells me that the GEL3N will be even better, so I'm looking forward to it.
  
 PS, all this is with my Code-X. My OTL amps have really found a renewed life after I discovered (from this thread) they could do well with planars too. I would say bass control is not 100%, but it's good enough for me to enjoy nonetheless. I'll need to learn more about this amp to better understand the output impedances though- which is a big issue with OTLs. So far I've been using the GOTL with 6336 output tubes, the 6sn7w tall metal base, and a 3 volt rectifier.
  
 PPS, with 5998, 6336, 6528A, etc- is all the output impedance the same? For my Apex Teton that's not the case, the output impedance there is in inverse proportion to the transconductance, hence 6528A has the lowest output impedance (27ohms) on that amp.


----------



## Rossliew

Glad you enjoy the OTL. Beast of an amp!


----------



## whirlwind

jelt2359 said:


> While waiting for my GEL3N to arrive (should be this week) I picked up a used GOTL and have been having some fun with it. Actually, going back and forth between my GOTL and my Apex Teton really made me appreciate the strengths of each. The Apex Teton is clearer, more resolving, and incisive. It also has a more sparkling treble that nonetheless is sweet and never peaky. OTOH the Glenn is warmer, with has a beautiful tonality that's never syrupy. It also has better pace. Considering the price difference between the two... the Glenn _more _than holds its own.
> 
> Glenn tells me that the GEL3N will be even better, so I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats on getting the EL3N amp.....  Glenn has said this is very close to 300B sound....Enjoy, you lucky devil  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The EL3N amp should control the bass of the planars much better and I agree with everything you said about the OTL...the bass could be controlled more, but it is not a slouch by any means and a whole lot of fun, even with planar cans.


----------



## 2359glenn

jelt2359 said:


> While waiting for my GEL3N to arrive (should be this week) I picked up a used GOTL and have been having some fun with it. Actually, going back and forth between my GOTL and my Apex Teton really made me appreciate the strengths of each. The Apex Teton is clearer, more resolving, and incisive. It also has a more sparkling treble that nonetheless is sweet and never peaky. OTOH the Glenn is warmer, with has a beautiful tonality that's never syrupy. It also has better pace. Considering the price difference between the two... the Glenn _more _than holds its own.
> 
> Glenn tells me that the GEL3N will be even better, so I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> ...


 

 My OTL is the same as the Apex and the 6528 will give the lowest impedance but has to be in 5998 mode.
 It will have more control when you get the HEXFRED rectifier.


----------



## Xcalibur255

jelt2359 said:


> PS, all this is with my Code-X. My OTL amps have really found a renewed life after I discovered (from this thread) they could do well with planars too. I would say bass control is not 100%, but it's good enough for me to enjoy nonetheless. I'll need to learn more about this amp to better understand the output impedances though- which is a big issue with OTLs. So far I've been using the GOTL with 6336 output tubes, the 6sn7w tall metal base, and a 3 volt rectifier.
> 
> PPS, with 5998, 6336, 6528A, etc- is all the output impedance the same? For my Apex Teton that's not the case, the output impedance there is in inverse proportion to the transconductance, hence 6528A has the lowest output impedance (27ohms) on that amp.


 
  
 The output impedance is less of an issue with planars because they are a purely resistive load.  If you get too much mismatch you run into damping issues with the bass and possibly distortion issues if you play loudly, but for the most parts planars are actually less finnicky about matching to OTL amps than dynamics are.  A big impedance mismatch with a dynamic headphone can produce results that are basically unlistenable.  The common wisdom on Head-fi that planars and OTL amps don't work well together honestly doesn't have much basis in fact.  The particular design of the amp and the tubes used matter a lot, but with good matching the two work well together.
  
 For reference my OTL, which is the oldest version of the design around here, has an output impedance of 50 ohms with 6AS7/6080 tubes, and 25 ohms when running 5998s.  The 6336 should be similar to the 5998.


----------



## jekjek

Hi Glenn 

Are you still receiving order for the OTL?


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> Hi Glenn
> 
> Are you still receiving order for the OTL?


 

 Yes Have a few amps to build now.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> Yes Have a few amps to build now.




PM sent


----------



## jelt2359

xcalibur255 said:


> The output impedance is less of an issue with planars because they are a purely resistive load.  If you get too much mismatch you run into damping issues with the bass and possibly distortion issues if you play loudly, but for the most parts planars are actually less finnicky about matching to OTL amps than dynamics are.  A big impedance mismatch with a dynamic headphone can produce results that are basically unlistenable.  The common wisdom on Head-fi that planars and OTL amps don't work well together honestly doesn't have much basis in fact.  The particular design of the amp and the tubes used matter a lot, but with good matching the two work well together.
> 
> For reference my OTL, which is the oldest version of the design around here, has an output impedance of 50 ohms with 6AS7/6080 tubes, and 25 ohms when running 5998s.  The 6336 should be similar to the 5998.




glenn seems to indicate that the 6528 would have the lowest output impedance of all and so that's what I've gone with. 

I'm still loving my dragon inspire, btw. Good to have options


----------



## gibosi

I purchased a bunch of 6BX7GT and among them was one labeled Tungsram. I can't say for sure that Tungsram manufactured this tube, but the construction -- plates, micas, and heat radiators -- are different than any other I have seen. This tube has a halo getter, so I would guess that it was manufactured around 1960, or later.


----------



## Oskari

What does the sticker say?


----------



## gibosi

Orgal Radio. And it appears that they were located in Milan, Italy, and manufactured radios.
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_hersteller_detail.cfm?company_id=8139


----------



## Oskari

Thanks! Somehow the style suggested that this might be Italian Tungsram. Unfortunately I know next to nothing about them. Does it resemble any US-made tube? Did Italian manufacturers make them?


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> Thanks! Somehow the style suggested that this might be Italian Tungsram. Unfortunately I know next to nothing about them. Does it resemble any US-made tube? Did Italian manufacturers make them?


 
  
 The only US manufacturers of the 6BX7 I am aware of are Sylvania, GE, Tung-Sol and RCA. And the only European manufacture I am aware of is Fivre. However, the plates, micas and heat radiators of this Tungsram tube are different than any of these, and therefore, I have no idea who manufactured it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Let us know how it sounds.
  
 You certainly have a knack for finding rare tubes.  If you happen to stumble across a nice pair of Sylvania SX-245s let me know.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> The only US manufacturers of the 6BX7 I am aware of are Sylvania, GE, Tung-Sol and RCA. And the only European manufacture I am aware of is Fivre. However, the plates, micas and heat radiators of this Tungsram tube are different than any of these, and therefore, I have no idea who manufactured it.




Toshiba perhaps?



 http://www.geocities.jp/radiomann/HomePageVT/TV_Ver_Triode.html#6BX7


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> Toshiba perhaps?
> 
> http://www.geocities.jp/radiomann/HomePageVT/TV_Ver_Triode.html#6BX7


 
  
 Bingo! 
  
 Last night I found a Toshiba on eBay:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/162214395149
  
 And yes, the plates, micas, getter and heat-radiators are identical. But it is interesting that the Tunsgram tube does not have the octagon containing 6BX7GT and "Toshiba" etched into the glass. Anyway, $36.99 is a bit more than I am willing to pay, so will wait for a better deal.


----------



## jelt2359

GEL3N in the haus


----------



## lukeap69

jelt2359 said:


> GEL3N in the haus


 
  
 Nice.
  
 OTL vs GELN!


----------



## Rossliew

jelt2359 said:


> GEL3N in the haus


 

 Pictures please!


----------



## jelt2359

lukeap69 said:


> Nice.
> 
> OTL vs GELN!


 
 With Code-X right now. There's no fight. The GEL3N is such an incredible, effortless, sweet sound. Great depth and soundstage too. 
  
 Wow. I'm blown away.


----------



## 2359glenn

jelt2359 said:


> lukeap69 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice.
> ...


 

 As good as a 45 amp maybe better


----------



## Xcalibur255

Congrats on the new amp.  Looks like a great start.


----------



## lukeap69

jelt2359 said:


> With Code-X right now. There's no fight. The GEL3N is such an incredible, effortless, sweet sound. Great depth and soundstage too.
> 
> Wow. I'm blown away.


 
  
 Thanks! GEL3N seems drool worthy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 How about with the HD800 & HD650? Still no fight?


----------



## gibosi

jelt2359 said:


> GEL3N in the haus


 
  
 Do you have original GEL3N with the side-contact base AZ4 rectifier? Or did Glenn swap in an octal socket?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> jelt2359 said:
> 
> 
> > GEL3N in the haus
> ...


 

 I swapped in a octal  socket so it could use 3DG4 , 5U4 eset eset it will be able to use the AZ4 with adapter.
 My normal rectifiers like your amp.
 This Lundahl transformer has a 5 volt 6 amp secondary and I put in a .5 ohm 20 watt resistor to be able to use my favorate rectifier the 3DG4.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I swapped in a octal  socket so it could use 3DG4 , 5U4 eset eset it will be able to use the AZ4 with adapter.
> My normal rectifiers like your amp.
> This Lundahl transformer has a 5 volt 6 amp secondary and I put in a .5 ohm 20 watt resistor to be able to use my favorate rectifier the 3DG4.


 
  
 It sounds like a wonderful amp. If I ever win the lottery, I will buy one from you.


----------



## jelt2359

Still can't remove the Code-X from my ears; such an incredibly airy, natural soundstage on the GEL3N. For a while there I thought I caught a minor 'flaw', but I swapped in the Hexfreds and now the bass is taut enough. Lose a bit of naturalness and decay compared to the 3dg4, but this is more my sound.

In Triode mode, I'm only at 9 o clock on the volume dial. My Code-X are pretty power hungry as far as cans go, and I can't imagine needing to go into Pentode but then of course my HE6 is there leering at me waiting to get its turn.

The density of tone in this amp is extremely nice. Vivid yet sweet is how I'd describe the sound. The separation and ability to resolve fast, complex passages on a dime is also very very good: pinpoint, crystal clear, yet not sharp or harsh at all.


----------



## Rossliew

Can it do the HE6 justice?


----------



## hypnos1

jelt2359 said:


> Still can't remove the Code-X from my ears; such an incredibly airy, natural soundstage on the GEL3N. For a while there I thought I caught a minor 'flaw', but I swapped in the Hexfreds and now the bass is taut enough (still not the tautest, but no longer a flaw). Lose a bit of naturalness and decay compared to the 3dg4, but this is more my sound.
> 
> In Triode mode, I'm only at 9 o clock on the volume dial. My Code-X are pretty power hungry as far as cans go, and I can't imagine needing to go into Pentode but then of course my HE6 is there leering at me waiting to get its turn.
> 
> The density of tone in this amp is extremely nice. Vivid yet sweet is how I'd describe the sound. The separation and ability to resolve fast, complex passages on a dime is also very very good: pinpoint, crystal clear, yet not sharp or harsh at all.


 
  
 Hi jelt2359.
  
 Am really glad Glenn's EL3N-based amp is bringing you the same joy (and surprise lol!) it did him...looks like he did a wonderful job bringing out the best in this tube.
  
 I don't know how many hours Glenn put on them, but in my Elise I (and others) found many aspects of the tube's sound - particularly in the bass qualities - improved quite dramatically over a long period...even beyond the 100hrs mark. I suspect this may well also be the case in your amp, even though my Elise is OTL. Should be interesting to see if you notice any such changes over time.
  
 Congrats on your new amp...


----------



## jelt2359

rossliew said:


> Can it do the HE6 justice?




There are two camps of he6 listeners. If you want every last ounce of performance then you will always be looking to speaker amps. The overall visceral impact of the he6 really shines with a good speaker amp. 

If you are in the other camp however you'll probably love the gel3n with the he6 and never feel you're missing anything. 

In other news I just tried the hd800s with my gel3n. I still prefer my other otl amp (apex teton), which gives it a more musical and richer sound overall. The two, the otl and the gel3n, are a great complement though. The former for high impedance dynamic cans, the latter for lower impedance planars.


----------



## whirlwind

jelt2359 said:


> rossliew said:
> 
> 
> > Can it do the HE6 justice?
> ...


 
 Thanks much for your impressions, they are very much appreciated.
  
 Congrats on your new amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Guess I better order parts to build more of these EL3N amps.
 At first I couldn't give that one away.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> Guess I better order parts to build more of these EL3N amps.
> At first I couldn't give that one away.




With the recent revisions you made Glenn, how much would you sellthe V2 model?


----------



## 2359glenn

It will be $1750 unless you want a Gold Point Stepped attenuater or Duelund coupling capacitors.
 Right now it is using a Alps Blue velvet pot and Jupiter coupling caps.


----------



## jelt2359

Update on Pentode vs Triode mode:

The Pentode mode brings the amp down at least two to three notches in performance. It's so drastic I can't imagine anyone ever using it. In fact I think the rational choice would be to remove this switch once and for all!


----------



## 2359glenn

jelt2359 said:


> Update on Pentode vs Triode mode:
> 
> The Pentode mode brings the amp down at least two to three notches in performance. It's so drastic I can't imagine anyone ever using it. In fact I think the rational choice would be to remove this switch once and for all!


 

 Yours was the prototype I just wanted to try in pentode mode. I found triode to be far superior.
 I will leave this switch out on future amps and eliminate the wires that go to it.


----------



## jelt2359

whirlwind said:


> Thanks much for your impressions, they are very much appreciated.
> 
> Congrats on your new amp.


 
 You're welcome. Just stating what I hear.
  


2359glenn said:


> Guess I better order parts to build more of these EL3N amps.
> At first I couldn't give that one away.


 
  
 No other way to put it: I got lucky. I only joined this thread _after_ I had bought the GEL3N, and only then did I find out you'd already had it for a few months! Besides, how often does one get to buy a Glenn amp brand new and have it ship instantly? Anyhow, I can't imagine why they didn't sell well. I find it absolutely awesome that it uses these cheap, unwanted EL3N tubes. I have a boatload of 6SN7, 2A3, 300B and of course rectifiers of all shapes and sizes at home, and I'd much rather have these fuss-free EL3N, thank you very much. Thanks also for the V2 upgrade to the rectifier sockets 


hypnos1 said:


> Hi jelt2359.
> 
> Am really glad Glenn's EL3N-based amp is bringing you the same joy (and surprise lol!) it did him...looks like he did a wonderful job bringing out the best in this tube.
> 
> ...


 
 Can't speak for other implementations- he did also say that I could use the EL3N in my OTL's, but honestly I can't be bothered. My tube rolling days are behind me... Since Glenn's had this amp for a few months, I'm quite sure it's well burnt-in.
  
 PS, in my personal view, the OTL sound is a very distinct one, and you either love it or you hate it. Sound aside, what I enjoy about these amps is that you can tune the output impedance with tube choice. For example, if I want something clearer, I go for the 6528 tube. If I want something more lush, perhaps the WE421A. In fact, as much as I enjoy the HD800 on a more romantic OTL amp, I sometimes feel in the mood for uber clarity and roll in the 6528 tubes- in fact, that's been happening more and more lately.
  
 In fact I should probably compare my OTL amp with the 6528 (and in IEM mode, which drops it to _really_ low output impedance), vs the GEL3N....


----------



## jelt2359

2359glenn said:


> Yours was the prototype I just wanted to try in pentode mode. I found triode to be far superior.
> I will leave this switch out on future amps and eliminate the wires that go to it.


 
 Yes, that is a good decision!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> It will be $1750 unless you want a Gold Point Stepped attenuater or Duelund coupling capacitors.
> Right now it is using a Alps Blue velvet pot and Jupiter coupling caps.


 
  
 Nice price Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

In the long run I would like to replace the 300B amp with the EL3N amp.
 Finding good 300Bs is expensive and most are crap and unstable.
 EL3Ns are still cheep nobody uses them except people on the Elise thread.
  
 This is the only amp dedicated to the EL3N all amplification is done with EL3Ns.
 This amp sounds as good or better then my 2A3 headphone amp.
 I built that amp before I used Lundahl transformers that might be the difference.


----------



## whirlwind

I agree with the 300B tubes being far too pricey and unstable...for the price of some of those tubes...".you could roll headphones"


----------



## 2359glenn

The 300B amp is more powerful but I don't think it sounds any better. I am using basically the same transformers just a different primary impedance
 and air gap.
 The EL3N amp is a much better bang for the buck.


----------



## whirlwind

If somebody also wants to power speakers as well as headphones, I can totally understand the use of the 300B.
  
 I have noticed using my planar headphone for the last two weeks...they respond very well with the C3g's as driver tubes.
  
 If somebody wants a 300b amp...maybe still make it for them...it will just cost them much more, but if that makes them happy.
  
 You know what they say....that last 5-10% that somebody is looking for can be costly.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> It will be $1750 unless you want a Gold Point Stepped attenuater or Duelund coupling capacitors.
> Right now it is using a Alps Blue velvet pot and Jupiter coupling caps.


 

 Hmm...whats the lead time for the next EL3N, Glenn?


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> It will be $1750 unless you want a Gold Point Stepped attenuater or Duelund coupling capacitors.
> Right now it is using a Alps Blue velvet pot and Jupiter coupling caps.


 
  
 This is great price. But unfortunately, my old house is a bit of a money pit, so I am going to have to wait until I win the lottery (or find a sugar momma? lol).


----------



## Xcalibur255

EL3N + EL3N appears to result in quite a lot of gain.  I can't tell if the datasheet is giving the value for pentode or triode mode though.
  
 Glenn is there not enough gain or voltage swing available to try this as a single stage design?  Would be cheaper and even better sounding with fewer parts if it could be pulled off.  The best coupling cap is no coupling cap after all.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

xcalibur255 said:


> Glenn is there not enough gain or voltage swing available to try this as a single stage design?  Would be cheaper and even better sounding with fewer parts if it could be pulled off.  The best coupling cap is no coupling cap after all.


 
 Another variation for direct drive (no cap or IT trafor), two stage is direct reactance drive (DRD).  Had built one for 45 tube, sound very good.  This sure would work for EL3N to attain enough voltage swing.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think eliminating the second stage all together where possible is kind of the holy grail for transparency in tube amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> I think eliminating the second stage all together where possible is kind of the holy grail for transparency in tube amps.


 

 I done that but screwed up and ran it in pentode when single. Sounds like crap in pentode!!!
 The EL3N has a gain of 20 in triode and 30 in pentode that is why I tried it in pentode.
 Next amp I will put a switch 1 stage or 2 stage and leave it triode.
 Have parts for another amp coming.


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn is there not enough gain or voltage swing available to try this as a single stage design?  Would be cheaper and even better sounding with fewer parts if it could be pulled off.  The best coupling cap is no coupling cap after all.
> ...


 

 Still needs a large choke how does that sound much different then a inter stage transformer?


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I done that but screwed up and ran it in pentode when single. Sounds like crap in pentode!!!
> The EL3N has a gain of 20 in triode and 30 in pentode that is why I tried it in pentode.
> Next amp I will put a switch 1 stage or 2 stage and leave it triode.
> Have parts for another amp coming.


 
  
 20 is pretty iffy, but I still think it would be fun to try it.  The Inspire has a gain of 20 running 6SN7s and I can completely max the volume out on that amp without it really being all that loud.
  
 I would LOVE to hear what an EML 30A amp would sound like.  Single stage, just two tubes with HEXFREDs for rectification.  The plate resistance on the 30A might be too high to work as an output tube, but I don't know enough about it to say either way.
  
 These tubes are supposed to sound better than 45s or 300Bs and with a single stage and no coupling parts in the signal path it might be the top of the tube amp hill for headphone amplification.  They're directly heated, so maybe they're a pain to work with like the 45 was, but I bet it would sound amazing.
  
 I'm too content with what I already have to pursue another amp, but I can't stop being curious about it all the same.


----------



## 2359glenn

@jelt2359 is going to switch his EL3N amp from single tube pentode to single tube triode.
 Then the switch will be with driver or without driver.
 Maybe he will have it done before my new transformers come in from Sweden.
 And let us know if it is worth trying


----------



## raybone0566

Glenn,
What would the improvements be by upgrading to the duelund caps. 
 Ray


----------



## 2359glenn

raybone0566 said:


> Glenn,
> What would the improvements be by upgrading to the duelund caps.
> Ray


 

 Not Really sure I just put them in amps that people ask for them.
 I normally use Russian paper in oil that cost me $2 sound fine to me.


----------



## jelt2359

xcalibur255 said:


> 20 is pretty iffy, but I still think it would be fun to try it.  The Inspire has a gain of 20 running 6SN7s and I can completely max the volume out on that amp without it really being all that loud.
> 
> I would LOVE to hear what an EML 30A amp would sound like.  Single stage, just two tubes with HEXFREDs for rectification.  The plate resistance on the 30A might be too high to work as an output tube, but I don't know enough about it to say either way.
> 
> ...


 
 oh! If it's the same as the Inspire this is gonna be just fine! Let me try it and see.


----------



## Xcalibur255

raybone0566 said:


> Glenn,
> What would the improvements be by upgrading to the duelund caps.
> Ray


 
  
 My .02 cents in case you find it helpful, since I have a lot of listening hours with both cap types being discussed:  If you have a discerning ear for detail, the duelunds let a bit more fine detail come through and improve transparency a bit.  They also are a bit more "honest" tone-wise in my opinion, layered but a bit less "romantic" shall we say than most paper in oil caps (which pretty much all sound nice in their own way).  The Russian PIO caps Glenn uses also sound very nice.  If you are looking for tube "richness" over a neutral sound they naturally complement that tonal balance while still having good resolution.  The way note decay is rendered is particularly endearing.
  
 Speaking purely in terms of resolution and accuracy the duelund is a step up.  Whether it's worth the cost (they're not cheap) is a personal choice.


----------



## Neogeo333

xcalibur255 said:


> My .02 cents in case you find it helpful:  If you have a discerning ear for detail, the duelunds let a bit more fine detail come through and improve transparency a bit.  They also are a bit more "honest" tone-wise in my opinion, layered but a bit less "romantic" shall we say than most paper in oil caps (which pretty much all sound nice in their own way).
> 
> Whether it's worth the cost (they're not cheap) is a personal choice.


 
 They also need time to open up.  My 300B from Glenn changed signature at about 3 months.  More natural sounding now.  It could be my ears getting used to the sound but I definitely hear a change.


----------



## Xcalibur255

neogeo333 said:


> They also need time to open up.  My 300B from Glenn changed signature at about 3 months.  More natural sounding now.  It could be my ears getting used to the sound but I definitely hear a change.


 
  
 Sorry, I was editing (adding stuff) to my post while you quoted it.  My bad.
  
 I agree with this too.  My 45 amp did not settle down into a final sound signature until it has somewhere north of 300 hours on it.  Maybe even more than that.  The duelunds are known for sounding too "tight" when they are new.


----------



## jelt2359

Just got 2x 6528 in to use with my GOTL and my Code-X.
  
 Sounds nice, that lowered output impedance definitely helps!


----------



## ru4music

xcalibur255 said:


> Sorry, I was editing (adding stuff) to my post while you quoted it.  My bad.
> 
> I agree with this too.  My 45 amp did not settle down into a final sound signature until it has somewhere north of 300 hours on it.  Maybe even more than that.  The duelunds are known for sounding too "tight" when they are new.


 
  
 Xcalibur255, just curious as to what headphones you run with you 45 amp?


----------



## jelt2359

_"The best cap is no cap"_
  
 Glenn gave me instructions and I rewired the single-stage setting to Triode mode rather than Pentode. I listen to it at the 2 'o clock setting now with my Code-X, which means it has more gain than my Dragon Inspire (that one, I frequently needed to go to 3 or 4)- more than enough for me


----------



## 2359glenn

jelt2359 said:


> _"The best cap is no cap"_
> 
> Glenn gave me instructions and I rewired the single-stage setting to Triode mode rather than Pentode. I listen to it at the 2 'o clock setting now with my Code-X, which means it has more gain than my Dragon Inspire (that one, I frequently needed to go to 3 or 4)- more than enough for me


 

 Do you like the sound better with one stage better then two stage?
 Just wondering if it is worth the one stage two stage switch in the next one I build.


----------



## jelt2359

2359glenn said:


> Do you like the sound better with one stage better then two stage?
> Just wondering if it is worth the one stage two stage switch in the next one I build.


 
 The one stage setting is more analog, musical, smoother, vivid. It's clearly better. The two-stage sound is grainier, and may seem 'more high definition'. My personal preferences actually tend to lean towards uber clarity, but in this case I have to admit that the one stager is simply a superior sound- preferences or not.
  
 This means that this is now a two-tube amp for me going forward (one per channel). No reason to use the cap-coupled version anymore. Cutting down on the tube costs further- that's always a good thing!


----------



## jelt2359

The musicality and analog presentation of the single stage reminds me a bit of what I love in my apex teton, though that's an otl and this is trafo-coupled so apples and oranges (for one, less "tubey sounding" on the gel3n). Looking forward to compare the gel3n with my ec studio once that comes in, but I don't expect one or the other to be a winner since the studio is more about uber clarity and the gel3n is just such a enjoyable sound. 

I seriously can't believe that these go for the price they go for.


----------



## 2359glenn

I ordered transformers to build another one for me. I regretted selling that one after I did.
 I actually prefer the sound of the EL3N amp over the 300B just a sweet sound can be compared to a #45
 tube.  But for $20 US and not needing a driver it probably sounds better then a #45 and less money.
 Ordered a set of Lundahl transformers on Friday. It will be a month to get these transformers from Sweden
 special air gap for these tubes.
 Going to replace my 2A3 headphone amp with this EL3N amp.


----------



## lukeap69

I'm glad to read this further development of the EL3N amp which I am very interested to add to my current setup. Also interested how this will stack up against the uber expensive EC Studio.


----------



## Khragon

Me too. I will probably get one myself. Love my 300B, and like to add this to my collection.


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> I'm glad to read this further development of the EL3N amp which I am very interested to add to my current setup. Also interested how this will stack up against the uber expensive EC Studio.


 

 You have to wait and ask jelt2359 when he gets it if it sounds as good he thinks it will.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> You have to wait and ask jelt2359 when he gets it if it sounds as good he thinks it will.




Yes, jelt2359 is the man! 

Is the 2359 in your username a coincidence?


----------



## raybone0566

Glenn,
Looks as if these amps will go as soon as you turn them out.


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > You have to wait and ask jelt2359 when he gets it if it sounds as good he thinks it will.
> ...


 

 Coincidence


----------



## 2359glenn

raybone0566 said:


> Glenn,
> Looks as if these amps will go as soon as you turn them out.


 

 So far I had no interest in this amp only jelt2359 wanted it.
 And I think this is the best sounding amp I made so far.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> raybone0566 said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn,
> ...


 
  
 Your amps always have my interest.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## raybone0566

Glenn,
Amp should sound even better going from 4 to 2 tube design?


----------



## gibosi

A Loewe Radio AZ12 arrived today. I assume it is 1930's vintage based on the globe-shaped bottle and mesh plates.
  
 Again, not suitable in a Glenn OTL running 6AS7G but more than adequate with a quad of 6BL7. And this would be fine in a Glenn EL3N too. 
  

  
 Lights up pretty nice too!


----------



## jelt2359

raybone0566 said:


> Glenn,
> Amp should sound even better going from 4 to 2 tube design?




The "one-stage" setting I'm referring to in my posts is the 2 tube version. Anyway a buddy of mine- speaker fella- heard my GEL3N and was transfixed. He immediately asked if he could get one as a preamp. Waiting for Glenn to get back to me now


----------



## gibosi

Loewe Radio AZ12 at night:


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Loewe Radio AZ12 at night:


 

 Nice looking tube!!!!
 With it's 200ma plate current you might get away with using 6AS7s


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Loewe Radio AZ12 at night:
> ...


 
 +1.....Great Glow Ken


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Loewe Radio AZ12 at night:




I hope I have one too!


----------



## 2359glenn

Ken were do you find all these tubes?


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Ken were do you find all these tubes?


 
  
 I find them on eBay....   Indeed, I spend waaaaaaay too much time searching eBay! lol


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Ken were do you find all these tubes?
> ...


 
 Yea but
 it's fun.
 To bad these tubes didn't have a normal octal base.


----------



## mysticstryk

You guys have any recommendations on which amp with what upgrades pairs well with Senns? Mostly use my 580/650/800 these days, though I wouldn't object to being able to power some efficient orthos and low Z headphones in addition to the Senns. 

My Dac will either be the Bimby or gumby.


----------



## gibosi

mysticstryk said:


> You guys have any recommendations on which amp with what upgrades pairs well with Senns? Mostly use my 580/650/800 these days, though I wouldn't object to being able to power some efficient orthos and low Z headphones in addition to the Senns.
> 
> My Dac will either be the Bimby or gumby.


 
  
 If the low-Z headphones are efficient, such as the TH-X00, the Glenn OTL will work well. If you wish to use inefficient low-Z headphones, such as HE-6, then a transformer-coupled amp, such as the Glenn EL3N or 300B would be preferable.
  
 As Glenn voices his OTL with Senns, that is a match made in heaven.


----------



## mysticstryk

gibosi said:


> If the low-Z headphones are efficient, such as the TH-X00, the Glenn OTL will work well. If you wish to use inefficient low-Z headphones, such as HE-6, then a transformer-coupled amp, such as the Glenn EL3N or 300B would be preferable.
> 
> As Glenn voices his OTL with Senns, that is a match made in heaven.




OTL it is then, my Senns are my main headphones and will likely remain that way for some number of years. 

Any recommendations for the upgrades? I was thinking of getting the Lundahl transformer upgrade, trying to look up impressions for it now.


----------



## 2359glenn

mysticstryk said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > If the low-Z headphones are efficient, such as the TH-X00, the Glenn OTL will work well. If you wish to use inefficient low-Z headphones, such as HE-6, then a transformer-coupled amp, such as the Glenn EL3N or 300B would be preferable.
> ...


 

 If you want to use low-Z headphones the best upgrade is the 5998 mod when used with 6336 output tubes it lowers the output impedance.


----------



## gibosi

mysticstryk said:


> OTL it is then, my Senns are my main headphones and will likely remain that way for some number of years.
> 
> Any recommendations for the upgrades? I was thinking of getting the Lundahl transformer upgrade, trying to look up impressions for it now.


 
  
 The Lundahl upgrade will provide you with a quieter amp. And in my opinion, if you decide to get the 5998 mod with the intention of running low-z headphones, I consider the Lundahl upgrade mandatory. The higher gain provided with the 5998 mod picks up more background noise. The only trade-off is you can no longer roll rectifiers. All the PY500A / 42EC4 types sound essentially the same.


----------



## mysticstryk

gibosi said:


> The Lundahl upgrade will provide you with a quieter amp. And in my opinion, if you decide to get the 5998 mod with the intention of running low-z headphones, I consider the Lundahl upgrade mandatory. The higher gain provided with the 5998 mod picks up more background noise. The only trade-off is you can no longer roll rectifiers. All the PY500A / 42EC4 types sound essentially the same.




I'm mainly running high Z Senns. Would the Lundahl upgrade be detrimental to pairing with the Senns? Would like the extra versatility, but not at the expense of the main headphones I will be using.


----------



## gibosi

mysticstryk said:


> I'm mainly running high Z Senns. Would the Lundahl upgrade be detrimental to pairing with the Senns? Would like the extra versatility, but not at the expense of the main headphones I will be using.


 
  
 Absolutely not! Again, the Lundahl gives you a significantly quieter amp and quiet is always good. 
  
 I do not have the Lundahl upgrade. I have the original transformer. And with my modded HD700, I find the 5998 mod to be too noisy. Fortunately, I don't much care for the sound of the 5998, so it isn't a problem for me.
  
 But based on my experience, I believe that the 5998 mod and the Lundahl transformer should go hand-in-hand. If you are going to get the 5998 mod, you should definitely get the Lundahl, no matter what headphones you expect to use.


----------



## mysticstryk

gibosi said:


> Absolutely not! Again, the Lundahl gives you a significantly quieter amp and quiet is always good.
> 
> I do not have the Lundahl upgrade. I have the original transformer. And with my modded HD700, I find the 5998 mod to be too noisy. Fortunately, I don't much care for the sound of the 5998, so it isn't a problem for me.
> 
> But based on my experience, I believe that the 5998 mod and the Lundahl transformer should go hand-in-hand. If you are going to get the 5998 mod, you should definitely get the Lundahl, no matter what headphones you expect to use.




What didn't you like about the 5998 sound? Do you know what benefits the gold stepped attenuator would give me?


----------



## lukeap69

mysticstryk said:


> What didn't you like about the 5998 sound? *Do you know what benefits the gold stepped attenuator would give me?*




Channel balance.

If your main use of this amp is to power HD800 and HD6XX, then sixtet 6BL7/6BX7 would be the best power tubes IME. My OTL amp that Glenn built has this option and also it can use a pir or 2 pairs of 6AS7. What my amp does not have is the 5998 switch and option to use 6SN7 as driver tubes.

Please note that my amp with C3g as drivers and 6BL7 as powers has very high gain. I mean at 2nd click at the Goldpoint volume pot (24 steps), my ears are almost bleeding already so I am using a passive preamp to counter this. You may want to speak with Glenn about that.


----------



## whirlwind

mysticstryk said:


> You guys have any recommendations on which amp with what upgrades pairs well with Senns? Mostly use my 580/650/800 these days, though I wouldn't object to being able to power some efficient orthos and low Z headphones in addition to the Senns.
> 
> My Dac will either be the Bimby or gumby.


 
  
 Glenns OTL with the HD650/HD800  is pretty special....
  
 I am using it with a ZMF Omni and it does very well with it also as well as my Grado RS1.
  
 You should be very happy.
  
 My wife and I are debating about getting my son one for his birthday...he is just getting into headphones and is going to be getting an HD650.  He has been listening to my amp quite a lot lately.
  
 It is pretty tough deciding what options to get.......I always seem to want them all


----------



## mysticstryk

whirlwind said:


> Glenns OTL with the HD650/HD800  is pretty special....
> 
> I am using it with a ZMF Omni and it does very well with it also as well as my Grado RS1.
> 
> ...




Yea, I CAN get them all, but I don't want to if I don't really need too. Digging through this thread to find out more.


----------



## 2359glenn

There is also the EL3N amp that is a transformer coupled amp that can drive most phones
 The cost is more but about the same price as the OTL with all the mods.
 And I think the EL3N amp sounds better.


----------



## gibosi

mysticstryk said:


> What didn't you like about the 5998 sound?


 
  
 It is not that the 5998 sounds bad. But when I was rolling 6AS7G-type output tubes, I preferred the sound of the GEC 6AS7G. And currently, I prefer the sound of four 6BL7GT or 6BX7GT. So the 5998s are not my favorite output tubes, and as a result, I haven't listened to them in a long time. Further, as I noted above, I find the 5998s with the mod-switch to be too noisy with the stock transformer.
  
 Knowing what I know now, and given that I have no interest in using low-Z cans, if I was going to order an OTL today, I would skip the 5998 mod and go for the larger chassis with six 6BL7 sockets. Further, I would forego the Lundahl transformer as I enjoy rolling rectifiers far too much. lol 
  
 That said, if you are going to listen to 5998s the mod is a good thing. The correct bias for the 6AS7 is different than it is for the 5998. With a simple toggle switch, you can provide the 5998 with the proper bias to get the best sound. But in order to really enjoy and appreciate the 5998 sound you need a quiet amp. So again, if you decide to get the 5998 mod, I encourage you to also get the Lundahl transformer.
  
 But as always, my ears and my gear. YMMV.


----------



## jekjek

Preparing myself for glenn OTL
I dig out my rectifier and I didnt know that i have National rebranded 5931


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Preparing myself for glenn OTL
> I dig out my rectifier and I didnt know that i have National rebranded 5931


 
  
 It is my understanding that the 5931 is a "ruggedized" 5U4G intended for use in severe industrial and military environments. According to the datasheet, it was designed to provide 225ma. And again, as I understand, the GOTL needs about 220ma to run the amp (with 6AS7) and a bit more to recharge the capacitors. If so, the 5931 will certainly work, but it will be operating at its maximum limit and may not last all that long. Glenn?


----------



## 2359glenn

The 5931 has a max of 250ma so it should be OK to use in the OTL


----------



## jekjek

Next rectifier I have, a gz32


And the famous gz34


And some pv200/600 and pv200/1000 not in the picture


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Next rectifier I have, a gz32
> 
> And the famous gz34
> 
> And some pv200/600 and pv200/1000 not in the picture


 
  
 The GZ32 and GZ34 are both fine in the OTL.
  
 However, with GZ32 you have to be a little careful. There was and is considerable confusion regarding the 5V4G and GZ32. They are not the same. The 5V4G can put out only 175ma whereas the GZ32 can put out 250ma. Since the Glenn with 6AS7/6080 requires 250ma, a 5V4G will rather quickly burn out. And unfortunately, some 5V4G are incorrectly labeled as GZ32. But the good news is that they are usually easy to tell apart. If you see a tube labeled as a GZ32 which has 8 holes in the plates, it is actually a Brimar 5V4G.
  
 For example:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/GZ32-EDISWAN-2pcs-/142135482545
  
 The PV200/600 and PV200/1000 are rated at 200ma at 600 volts and 1000 volts, respectively. However, for the PV200/600, I have found one document which suggests that at lower voltages, it can provide more current, specifically, 260ma at 500 volts. So it may well be OK in the OTL.
  
 http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/short/054/0/027.pdf
  
 This may also be true for the PV200/1000, but I haven't been able to find much of anything about this rectifier.


----------



## jekjek

Another interesting tubes to try is the raytheon 6414. 
I'm not sure which adapter i can use for this


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Another interesting tubes to try is the raytheon 6414.
> I'm not sure which adapter i can use for this


 
  
 The 6416 appears to be be a souped up 12AT7.
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/12at7.htm
  
 A standard 12AU7 (on top) to 6SN7 (on bottom) adapter should do the trick. There are a ton of them on eBay.


----------



## 2359glenn

As far as rectifiers go here is a good one not all are the same you have to find one with the large bottle and base.
 This will power the OTL no problem.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-1-x-GE-5AU4-Vacuum-Tube-Untested-Guaranteed-2-Work-/142154804200?hash=item2119162be8:g:im0AAOSwMtxXtgsf
  
 Spec sheet
  
 http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/093/5/5AU4.pdf


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> As far as rectifiers go here is a good one not all are the same you have to find one with the large bottle and base.
> This will power the OTL no problem.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-1-x-GE-5AU4-Vacuum-Tube-Untested-Guaranteed-2-Work-/142154804200?hash=item2119162be8:g:im0AAOSwMtxXtgsf
> ...


 
 Large bottle and base will have effect as well? 
  
 Is there any tubes that comes with your amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > As far as rectifiers go here is a good one not all are the same you have to find one with the large bottle and base.
> ...


 

 Yes it will come with a 3DG4 rectifier 350ma if you get the regular transformer   If you get the Lundahl it will come
 with two 42EC4/PY500 rectifiers they can handle 1000ma


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Yes it will come with a 3DG4 rectifier 350ma if you get the regular transformer   If you get the Lundahl it will come
> with two 42EC4/PY500 rectifiers they can handle 1000ma


 
  
 And I assume he could choose HEXFREDs as well?


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> And I assume he could choose HEXFREDs as well?


 
  
 Could and should IMHO.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> And I assume he could choose HEXFREDs as well?




Thank you Ken
I think 3DG4, 5931 and your rectifier guide is my way to go


----------



## jelt2359

Someone pm-ed me to ask about the GEL3N vs GOTL with the HD800SD. 

Short story is this. If you are sticking to the HD800SD, then the GOTL does better. It's a beautiful combi- I am using it with hexfred, 6sn7w tall bottle metal base, and 6x 6bl7. 

The sound is not peaky at all, with just the right amount of romantic bloom. Noisy as hell without music playing (mine is non-Lundahl, the fancier transformers should solve this problem), but heck, I listen to music.

The GEL3N is sweet, but thinner, and just has that bit of peak in the treble still. I'd stick to planars on the GEL3N, or lower impedance dynamics.


----------



## gibosi

Another lesser-known rectifier: N.V. Ratron AZ12:
  

  
 According to the Radiomuseum site, Ratron was established in Berlin in 1925. In 1941, a subsidiary company, N.V. Ratron was established in Beek-Ubbergen, NL, apparently for the purpose of manufacturing rectifiers for the German armed forces. The company ceased operation in 1945, with the end of the war.
  
 While the logo and lettering are long gone, the photos on the following site lead me to believe that it is, in fact, an N.V. Ratron AZ12
  
 http://www.tubecollection.de/ura/ratron.htm
  
 And I am pleased to report that it appears to be working fine.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Another lesser-known rectifier: N.V. Ratron AZ12:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting. 250ma?


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Interesting. 250ma?


 
  
 All AZ12 and AZ4 are 200ma. So it would be fine with four 6BL7 in the OTL. And also in Glenn's EL3N amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> jekjek said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting. 250ma?
> ...


 

 I originally had the AZ4 but changed it to 8 pin 5U4 or 3DG4 more common.
 My next one will be 8 pin and plan on using a 3DG4 that I paid $1.00 for a 350 ma tube.


----------



## jekjek

Tried to hunt for CK5694 but i got Raytheon 6N7G instead


Would love to try this in Glenn OTL

I also found ECC35


Tried this ecc35 on littledot and i find it as a very fun tube


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I originally had the AZ4 but changed it to 8 pin 5U4 or 3DG4 more common.
> My next one will be 8 pin and plan on using a 3DG4 that I paid $1.00 for a 350 ma tube.


 
  
 Will it be able to use 5U4 as well? If so, with adapters, then of course, AZ4 and AZ12 could be used too.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Tried to hunt for CK5694 but i got Raytheon 6N7G instead
> 
> Would love to try this in Glenn OTL


 
  
 Yes, it appears the the 5694 is very rare. I have found only one so far...
  
 I have a few 6A6, which preceded the 6N7G. The 6A6 is electrically identical to the 6N7G, but it has a different base. The 6A6 and 6N7G are the American equivalents to the Mullard ECC31. And there is also a 12-volt version of this tube, the FDD20, manufactured by Philips. I thought all of them sounded pretty good, but like the ECC31 best of all.
  
 Tung-Sol 6A6
  

  
  
 Philips FDD20... and yes, the glass has a bluish tint.


----------



## leftside

jekjek said:


> Tried to hunt for CK5694 but i got Raytheon 6N7G instead
> 
> 
> Would love to try this in Glenn OTL
> ...


 
 The ECC35 is a superb tube. One of my favorites.


----------



## jekjek

leftside said:


> The ECC35 is a superb tube. One of my favorites.


 
 Agree, but I'm not sure if can use it in Glenn OTL cause the gain is quite high


----------



## leftside

The gain is high. I certainly notice the difference with my WA22.


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> leftside said:
> 
> 
> > The ECC35 is a superb tube. One of my favorites.
> ...


 

 If your OTL is going to use 6BL7 output tubes and the ECC35 is to much gain switch to 6BX7 output tubes


----------



## rosgr63

leftside said:


> The ECC35 is a superb tube. One of my favorites.


 

 Agreed, it's an outstanding tube and so is the ECC33.
 That's for my system and my old and tired ears!!!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> leftside said:
> 
> 
> > The ECC35 is a superb tube. One of my favorites.
> ...


 
 Ha ha....Starvos, my ears are old and tired also.....getting old is not for wimps


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> leftside said:
> 
> 
> > The ECC35 is a superb tube. One of my favorites.
> ...


 

 Hi Stavros I was just about to send you a E-Mail
  
 Now Now you are not that old you are the same age as me


----------



## rosgr63

Good morning Joe & Glenn,
 Remember to some of our younger head-fi members we are "way too old"!!!
 But still young at heart and crazy as ever........
  
 I send you another lesson, please read alone or else I'll be in trouble......


----------



## rosgr63

Lesson received Glenn, learning loads, thank you!!!!!!!


----------



## leftside

Love the ECC33 as well. I started a thread on all the ECC31/32/33/34/35 tubes here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/808322/ecc31-ecc32-ecc33-ecc34-ecc35-tube-addicts


----------



## rosgr63

We started a thread sometime ago:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/536785/ecc32-tube-addicts
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/558352/ecc33-ecc35-tube-addicts
  
 We have done lots of testing with them.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> If your OTL is going to use 6BL7 output tubes and the ECC35 is to much gain switch to 6BX7 output tubes



Noted Glenn. I have ordered some sylvania 6bx7 for this amp


----------



## jekjek

leftside said:


> Love the ECC33 as well. I started a thread on all the ECC31/32/33/34/35 tubes here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/808322/ecc31-ecc32-ecc33-ecc34-ecc35-tube-addicts







rosgr63 said:


> We started a thread sometime ago:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/536785/ecc32-tube-addicts
> 
> ...




Thanks for the review. Will read and get more tube poison


----------



## rosgr63

We


jekjek said:


> Thanks for the review. Will read and get more tube poison


 

 Welcome to the tube addicts world!!!!!!!!


----------



## jekjek

rosgr63 said:


> We
> 
> 
> Welcome to the tube addicts world!!!!!!!!




Thanks, I think more like tube and ebay addicts!


----------



## rosgr63

jekjek said:


> Thanks, I think more like tube and ebay addicts!


 

 You are so right!!!!!


----------



## jekjek

Now for some tube porn
Just found lifetime supply for e80cc


I found it in a milk tin


----------



## Oskari

I'd like to find such tins, too. 

Those are Siemens boxes but the tubes got to be either Philips or Tungsram. Can you show us?


----------



## jekjek

oskari said:


> I'd like to find such tins, too.
> 
> Those are Siemens boxes but the tubes got to be either Philips or Tungsram. Can you show us?




Sure!
We basically have 2 flavour 
On the right is the older D getter with gold pin and on the left is the halo getter and not a gold pin



Both look almost identical


----------



## gibosi

Tungsram have rhodium pins and three holes in each thin end of the plates. Philips have gold pins (except for those manufactured in New York in the late 1970's), and no holes.


----------



## whirlwind

jekjek said:


> Now for some tube porn
> Just found lifetime supply for e80cc
> 
> 
> I found it in a milk tin


 
 Wow....great find...congrats


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Tungsram have rhodium pins and three holes in each thin end of the plates. Philips have gold pins (except for those manufactured in New York in the late 1970's), and no holes.




Your tube knowledge is unrivalled




whirlwind said:


> Wow....great find...congrats




Still got the radioman repair box with all his tubes. 
Guess my dad will filter it out before me


----------



## Oskari

jekjek said:


> oskari said:
> 
> 
> > Those are Siemens boxes but the tubes got to be either Philips or Tungsram. Can you show us?
> ...




Thanks, looks like you got both!


----------



## whirlwind

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.


----------



## rosgr63

Happy Thanksgiving ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Good food with good friends.


----------



## Khragon

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Enjoying my weekend morning with some music.


----------



## jelt2359

The GEL3N is a great amp. A friend came over with his DNA Stratus (he's lived with it as his only amp for a good long time, tube rolling everything possible). I put it in single-stage mode and he said, 'this sounds like my Stratus!' I then told him the price of the GEL3N, and informed him there was to be no tube-rolling with the EL3N (well, within reason), and I think he was suitably impressed. (Stratus goes for $2.7K)
  
 I also let him try the double-stage mode, for which there is a significant increase in macro-dynamics and punch, at the slight cost of some resolving ability. It's great to have two flavours with this amp, one with a delicate refinement and another with great punch.
  
 I hope others have had, or are going to have, the chance to try the GEL3N!
  
 PS, Another amp that floored him (this is a guy who has long retired his HD800)- the GOTL with 6x 6BL7, 6SN7W and Hexfred rectifier. This is a truly great combination, thanks to @lukeap69 for introducing it to me. I just discovered my Apex Teton can also run the same 6BL7 tubes, so I'm going to try that next


----------



## Seamaster

Hello guys, long time no see. I was in the middle of life crises and busy work and school at same time. No more full size headphone amp for over 4 years and amazingly I am still alive. haha......
  
  
 Griffin


----------



## 2359glenn

seamaster said:


> Hello guys, long time no see. I was in the middle of life crises and busy work and school at same time. No more full size headphone amp for over 4 years and amazingly I am still alive. haha......
> 
> 
> Griffin


 

 Hello Griffin
  
 Good to here from you. I hope your crises is over.
 I can understand no headphones when you got little ones hard to sit in one place speakers are easier.
  
 Glenn


----------



## Seamaster

not quite yet. my family got some medical issues


----------



## Seamaster

also my recent experience with TOTL vintage audio gears changed my taste


----------



## gibosi

A couple AZ4 rectifiers arrived today:
  
 An Eindhoven-made Philips AZ4 manufactured in 1950.
  

  
 A Hungarian-made Tungsram AZ4. No date codes visible, but the construction leads me to believe late 1940's to early 1950's.
  

  
 Again, this is a 200 mA rectifier so it is not really suitable for use with 6AS7, but it is fine with four 6BL7 and also in Glenn's EL3N. And I am pleased to report that both of them light up.


----------



## 2359glenn

I shipped my AZ4 with the EL3N amp with adapter that has no resistor it uses the resistor built into
 the amp for the 3DG4.
  
 Nice looking tube.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> A couple AZ4 rectifiers arrived today:
> 
> An Eindhoven-made Philips AZ4 manufactured in 1950.
> 
> ...


 
 How much you paid for that Ken?


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> How much you paid for that Ken?


 
  
 I gave $27 for the Philips and $18 for the Tungsram.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I shipped my AZ4 with the EL3N amp with adapter that has no resistor it uses the resistor built into
> the amp for the 3DG4.


 
  
 And I assume that in order to run four-pin B4 or German Y8A base 4V tubes, adapters to 5U4 will work?


----------



## jelt2359

2359glenn said:


> I shipped my AZ4 with the EL3N amp with adapter that has no resistor it uses the resistor built into
> the amp for the 3DG4.
> 
> Nice looking tube.


 
 Nice, awesome. Look forward to receiving it.
  
 In the original design (AZ4 as stock) did it also use a resistor?


----------



## 2359glenn

jelt2359 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I shipped my AZ4 with the EL3N amp with adapter that has no resistor it uses the resistor built into
> ...


 

 Yes the transformer has a 5 volt rectifier winding and the AZ4 is a 4 volt tube.
 The resistor is for the 3DG4 and AZ4 the AZ4 draws 2 amps and the voltage drop is 1 volt .
 The 3DG4 draws 3.8 amps dropping the voltage to 3.3 volts through the same resistor.


----------



## Seamaster

Your pick:


----------



## Khragon

I vote the the upper one, never a fan of top down text.
  
 Also the silhouette looks like 1/2 of a WA5 with Elrog tubes, I would redo it to reflect the Glenn 300B with Tak or WE300B


----------



## 2359glenn

I still have this one never could find a place to print it on a metallic sticker.


----------



## Seamaster

2359glenn said:


> I still have this one never could find a place to print it on a metallic sticker.


 

 That is why we came up with a 2D color logo for easier process. Last one was this one is too hard to get it look right when print out.


----------



## gibosi

Glenn,
  
 I see some B4-base, Mullard-made U12 rectifiers on eBay, which are rated at 120 mA. Is the U12 powerful enough for your EL3N amp?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-NU12-U18-BLACK-PLATES-SAME-CODES-TESTED-NOS-TUBES-/351917985116
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-NU12-U18-BLACK-PLATES-RED-LOGO-SAME-CODES-TESTED-NOS-TUBES-/351917982784


----------



## Seamaster

Glenn:
  
 I can ask those guys for metallic logo price, I know they make color filled logos because I went there and had meet. 
  
 https://www.frontpanelexpress.com


----------



## jelt2359

gibosi said:


> Glenn,
> 
> I see some B4-base, Mullard-made U12 rectifiers on eBay, which are rated at 120 mA. Is the U12 powerful enough for your EL3N amp?
> 
> ...




Now you're just tempting me, Ken!


----------



## jelt2359

seamaster said:


> Your pick:




This looks exactly like this other amp:


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Glenn,
> 
> I see some B4-base, Mullard-made U12 rectifiers on eBay, which are rated at 120 mA. Is the U12 powerful enough for your EL3N amp?
> 
> ...




Rectifier for your new EL3n amp Ken?


----------



## Seamaster

jelt2359 said:


> This looks exactly like this other amp:


 

 Sorry bro, I paid someone design those logos, I had no control to what the designer picked. I just told him the concept with only two revisions allowed.


----------



## 2359glenn

seamaster said:


> Your pick:


 

 I think the top one is best.
 I didn't know you paid for these thank you.
 These will be much easier to print then the other one.
  
 Thanks
  Glenn


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Glenn,
> 
> I see some B4-base, Mullard-made U12 rectifiers on eBay, which are rated at 120 mA. Is the U12 powerful enough for your EL3N amp?
> 
> ...


 

 I don't know it can be tried I originally used a AZ1 and I thought it had to much voltage drop. maybe because I had a mesh plate AZ1 that was used.
 So switched to AZ4 then to 5U4 and or 3DG4 at jelt2359 request. I preferred the sound with the 3DG4 myself least voltage drop and sag.
 Crazy using a 350ma tube on a amp that draws 104 ma


----------



## whirlwind

I like the top one also...that looks great!


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Rectifier for your new EL3n amp Ken?


 
  
 No, I'm just trying to tempt jelt2359. lol 
  
 Seriously, I'd love to have one, but I am currently in the middle of renovating the kitchen and bathrooms in my old house...


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I don't know it can be tried I originally used a AZ1 and I thought it had to much voltage drop. maybe because I had a mesh plate AZ1 that was used.
> So switched to AZ4 then to 5U4 and or 3DG4 at jelt2359 request. I preferred the sound with the 3DG4 myself least voltage drop and sag.
> Crazy using a 350ma tube on a amp that draws 104 ma


 
  
 The AZ1 can provide 100 mA, so it would appear that the Mullard U12, with 120 mA, provides a little more headroom and it should be fine. But of course, no telling how it might sound.
  
 And interestingly, according to my measurements, a 1939 Telefunken AZ12 with mesh plates has a vdrop of 23V whereas, a 1942 Telefunken AZ12 with sheet-metal plates has a vdrop of 26V. So I am inclined to think that the mesh plate rectifiers are not necessarily more inefficient....


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> jekjek said:
> 
> 
> > Rectifier for your new EL3n amp Ken?
> ...


 
 We just got finished with a full kitchen remodel about two weeks ago...I feel your pain...it is not cheap!


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> No, I'm just trying to tempt jelt2359. lol
> 
> Seriously, I'd love to have one, but I am currently in the middle of renovating the kitchen and bathrooms in my old house...


 
 You need more storage for tubes as well 
 Peace....


----------



## Hansotek

Does Glenn have a website? I'm coming up empty handed.


----------



## whirlwind

No...you can communicate here or send him a pm


----------



## gibosi

More temptation for jelt2359. lol 
  
 61 rectifiers to try in your EL3N:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/61-pieces-U12-MU14-R2-R3-U18-20-VU39-Marconi-Osram-tubes-valves-suit-PX4-PX25-/291961522388


----------



## Hansotek

whirlwind said:


> No...you can communicate here or send him a pm




Ok... uh, I've heard Glenn's amps mentioned a lot lately. I guess I was wondering what models are available... What do they look like? Can I get some short descriptions about what they sound like? How are they priced? What are the essential differences between the models? What is the design philosophy? Who is Glenn? How do you order? What is the wait time? Etc.

If you could separate the answer to each question with a sexy shot of a tube amp and a pithy headline about how awesome it is, even better. 

Thanks!


----------



## gibosi

hansotek said:


> Ok... uh, I've heard Glenn's amps mentioned a lot lately. I guess I was wondering what models are available... What do they look like? Can I get some short descriptions about what they sound like? How are they priced? What are the essential differences between the models? What is the design philosophy? Who is Glenn? How do you order? What is the wait time? Etc.
> 
> If you could separate the answer to each question with a sexy shot of a tube amp and a pithy headline about how awesome it is, even better.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glenn is a custom builder. Thus, the only limitations are your imagination, your budget and yes, feasibility. The most common builds are a 6AS7/6SN7 OTL, a 300B/C3g (transformer coupled) and recently, an EL3N (transformer coupled).
  
 And of course, all of them are as awesome as awesome can be. 
  
 In this forum, Glenn is 2359glenn. And you might want to contact him directly with your questions.
  
 I have an OTL, customized to run a pair of C3g or a single 6SN7/12SN7/25SN7. For output tubes, in addition to the standard 6AS7/6080/5998, it can also run a pair of 6336 or 6528 to better drive low-Z headphones.


----------



## Hansotek

gibosi said:


> Glenn is a custom builder. Thus, the only limitations are your imagination, your budget and yes, feasibility. The most common builds are a 6AS7/6SN7 OTL, a 300B/C3g (transformer coupled) and recently, an EL3N (transformer coupled).
> 
> And of course, all of them are as awesome as awesome can be.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the essential info. That makes more sense now. So are these modded versions of other amps, or ground-up builds?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> More temptation for jelt2359. lol
> 
> 61 rectifiers to try in your EL3N:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/61-pieces-U12-MU14-R2-R3-U18-20-VU39-Marconi-Osram-tubes-valves-suit-PX4-PX25-/291961522388


 

 Your not buying these I can't believe it.


----------



## gibosi

hansotek said:


> Thanks for the essential info. That makes more sense now. So are these modded versions of other amps, or ground-up builds?


 
  
 These are ground-up builds. Glenn is a one-man shop. He designs and builds everything by himself.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Your not buying these I can't believe it.


 
  
 Most of these are 120 mA rectifiers. So not enough power to run the OTL.
  
 Otherwise, I would be sorely tempted! lol


----------



## whirlwind

I also own a Glenn OTL, about the same as gibosi...just a different transformer
  

  
 Glenn also make an OTL that uses Six  6BL7/6BX7 tubes
  

  
  
 Glenn's famous 300B amp
  

  
  
 Glenns EL3N Amp
  

  
  
 I am sure there are many many more


----------



## Hansotek

whirlwind said:


> I also own a Glenn OTL, about the same as gibosi...just a different transformer
> 
> 
> 
> ...




They all look cool, but the design of that 300B amp is just oozing with awesomeness. I love the gauges!


----------



## Khragon

Why is the 300B infamous?
  
 Here's mine.


----------



## gibosi

hansotek said:


> They all look cool, but the design of that 300B amp is just oozing with awesomeness. I love the gauges!


 
  
 As his amps are custom built from scratch, the wait time is measured in months. Thus, the sooner you get in his queue, the sooner you will have your amp. So I suggest that you send him a PM and start the process.


----------



## whirlwind

khragon said:


> Why is the 300B infamous?
> 
> Here's mine.


 
 Ha....that was my bad...fixed now...should be famous   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 His best amp...but Glenn says the EL3N is fairly close in sound quality.
  
 I would love to hear either!


----------



## musicman59

hansotek said:


> They all look cool, but the design of that 300B amp is just oozing with awesomeness. I love the gauges!


 
 He is building my 300B right now...


----------



## longbowbbs

musicman59 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > They all look cool, but the design of that 300B amp is just oozing with awesomeness. I love the gauges!
> ...


 
 I hope you have a decent pair of headphones and cables to use....


----------



## musicman59

longbowbbs said:


> I hope you have a decent pair of headphones and cables to use....


 
 Just a few..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I love the Aurender N10 so much that I have a black N100H 4TB on its way for the second system.....  thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## longbowbbs

musicman59 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I hope you have a decent pair of headphones and cables to use....
> ...


 
 I am always happy to be an enabler. I barely ducked the Bricasti from your suggestion!


----------



## musicman59

longbowbbs said:


> I am always happy to be an enabler. I barely ducked the Bricasti from your suggestion!


 
 You should come to Michigan to listen the M28 in my system 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 A friend for your area has (had) a pair of JC-1 and tried a home a pair of ML 536 and the M28.... goes which ones he ordered....


----------



## longbowbbs

musicman59 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I am always happy to be an enabler. I barely ducked the Bricasti from your suggestion!
> ...


 
 Danger Will Robinson!


----------



## Hansotek

musicman59 said:


> He is building my 300B right now...




Nice! I'm jealous, I want to try this stuff out now!


----------



## Hansotek

longbowbbs said:


> Danger Will Robinson!




Lol! Must.... resist....


----------



## musicman59

hansotek said:


> Nice! I'm jealous, I want to try this stuff out now!


 
 Come over to visit Jude and I after I get it....


----------



## Hansotek

musicman59 said:


> Come over to visit Jude and I after I get it.... :wink_face:




Hell yeah! That would be a ton of fun!


----------



## musicman59

longbowbbs said:


> Danger Will Robinson!


 
 OMG! Flashback...flashback!!


----------



## longbowbbs

musicman59 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Danger Will Robinson!
> ...


----------



## raybone0566

Haven't seen any food pics here lately so here's one. Family tradition when the x-mas tree goes up we make a huge pot of homemade vegetable soup. Cheers


----------



## whirlwind

Portabella mushroom sandwich with some sweet potatoe fries and a nice flight of beers


----------



## parbaked

Pepperoni slice

  
 Oakland style 
  

  
 These guys also bake sourdough bread, cookies and little pecan pies in their oven...


----------



## rosgr63

That's heaven Steven, eating nice food and listening to music.


----------



## Seamaster

Art is art, it does not matter if it is food , music, culture or just being yourself.


----------



## parbaked

rosgr63 said:


> That's heaven Steven, eating nice food and listening to music.


 

 Hi Stavros!
 You are the expert at that...my hero!!


----------



## rosgr63

Steven you are my dear friend and guru in many ways when it comes to music, food, having a good time and so much more.
  
 I have learned a lot from you and I miss our emails!


----------



## whirlwind

Starvos....they arrived today.
  
 Thanks much....I will give them a listen tomorrow


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Starvos....they arrived today.
> 
> Thanks much....I will give them a listen tomorrow




What tubes are these Joe?


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> Starvos....they arrived today.
> 
> Thanks much....I will give them a listen tomorrow


 
  
 Hi Joe, thanks for letting me know.
  
 I was worried now all is good.
  
 Happy listening, they are great tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Starvos....they arrived today.
> ...


 
  
 Hi Arnold.
  
 Bendix slotted 6080


----------



## jekjek

whirlwind said:


> Starvos....they arrived today.
> 
> Thanks much....I will give them a listen tomorrow




Nice tube. I wish I have one too


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Hi Arnold.
> 
> Bendix slotted 6080




Winner!


----------



## whirlwind

Glad to report that the tubes not only survived the trip from Greece without being broken but are now in my amp and working great....enjoying the blues. 
  
 It takes a few minutes for these tubes to warm up and sound their best, but when they do they sound great!
  

  
  
 Thanks again Starvos, I will put them to good use.
  
 Thanks for the wonderful packing job also....those things could have survived if a truck would have run over the box!
  
 The only packing job I have ever saw that was any better was Glenn's when packing an amp


----------



## 2359glenn

Better then mine HA


----------



## rosgr63

I can never better you Glenn, no way!
  
 Thanks Joe, they are nice tubes for sure.
 A bit of background history they were used in Air Force AA missiles so they were made to last.
 You can tel from the ruggedised construction.


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> I can never better you Glenn, no way!
> 
> Thanks Joe, they are nice tubes for sure.
> A bit of background history they were used in Air Force AA missiles so they were made to last.
> You can tel from the ruggedised construction.


 
  
 Yeah, these things are built like a military tank...little brother of the 6336...it is built rugged too.
  
 Used in Air force AA missiles....that is quite spectacular...I had no idea.
  
 Thanks for that info Starvos.
  
 i have been listening to the ZMF Omni for 9 straight weeks.....I am listening to the HD800 tonight , with these tubes.
  
 Sounds spectacular and damn...is the HD800 light


----------



## gibosi

It's been a while since I rolled in a pair of the slotted Bendix, but I remember that I really liked this output tube with a pair of Siemens C3g.
  
 And I have yet to get around to it, but I am curious how two slotted Bendix and two GEC 6080's might sound using the 6BL7 adapters.....


----------



## rosgr63

A seasoned head fier friend who knows a lot about Bendix told me he could not detect any difference between solid and slotted plates.
  
 One must compare the same quality tubes to be 100% sure.
 What I mean is you can't compare a well used burned out pair with a NOS pair and draw definite conclusions.
  
 I never done any extensive testing so I can't comment.


----------



## gibosi

Another rectifier... 
  
 A Unitra Dolam AZ4.
  
 This Unitra Dolam AZ4 was manufactured in Wrocław (Breslau), Poland, during the Cold War. I would guess it is from the mid-1960's. It appears that Unitra Telam, located in  Warszawa (Warschau), Poland, also manufactured the same tube. From pictures I have seen, the Telam and Dolam AZ4 look to be virtually identical, including the sheet-metal shields below the bottom mica.
  
 Hope to light this one up later today....


----------



## jelt2359

My AZ4 adaptor is incoming. Hope to test soon


----------



## jekjek

jelt2359 said:


> My AZ4 adaptor is incoming. Hope to test soon




Are you located in Singapore?


----------



## jelt2359

jekjek said:


> Are you located in Singapore?




Yes! You, as well?


----------



## jekjek

jelt2359 said:


> Yes! You, as well?




Yes. Saw your nick at vr-zone


----------



## 2359glenn

jelt2359 said:


> My AZ4 adaptor is incoming. Hope to test soon


 

 It's taking a long time to get there. You also have another HEXFRED in there.
 Wondering what happened to it


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn, did you roll very many rectifiers with the EL3N amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

AZ4 then changed socket and tried 5U4 5V3 5W4 GZ34 then 3DG4.
 I preferred the 3DG4. Lowest voltage drop I think Jelt2359 liked the HEXFRED diodes the best. Almost
 no voltage drop 1 volt.


----------



## whirlwind

Did you ever listen to planars with the EL3N amp Glenn


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Did you ever listen to planars with the EL3N amp Glenn


 

 No I don't have any but it easily drives low impedance phones with transformer output 32 ohms.
 Have the transformers to build another one when I finish musicman59's 300B amp.


----------



## Seamaster

Can anyone recommend top five 12AT7 types or ECC801S, and their general sonic signatures? I am thinking getting a pair of McIntosh MC75 mono block, I know, I know, please don't shoot me, a Mac. I am so curious about these. Thanks for the help. I never had anything that takes 12AT7 type tubes, so I have no experience about these.


----------



## gibosi

I have no experience with 12AT7, but some consider the 5751 to be the best of the 12AX7/12AT7 types. It is a premium tube designed for severe operating environments, such as a factory floor or the military, and thus has low noise and microphonics. However, it has a amplification factor of 70 compared to 60, for the 12AT7, which may or may not be close enough.
  
 These are discussed on Joes Tube Lore:
  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#12AX7-2
  
 The discussion of 5751 starts with "Life with 12AX7s - Part 2" and continues with "Life with 12AX7s (5751s) - Part 3"
  
 If nothing else, it is an entertaining read.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I have no experience with 12AT7, but some consider the 5751 to be the best of the 12AX7/12AT7 types. It is a premium tube designed for severe operating environments, such as a factory floor or the military, and thus has low noise and microphonics. However, it has a amplification factor of 70 compared to 60, for the 12AT7, which may or may not be close enough.
> 
> These are discussed on Joes Tube Lore:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I use to own a Mad Ear+HD amp and the Sylvania 5751 triple mica black plate was my favorite tube.....it was also a 10,000 hour tube life


----------



## Seamaster

whirlwind said:


> I use to own a Mad Ear+HD amp and the Sylvania 5751 triple mica black plate was my favorite tube.....it was also a 10,000 hour tube life




Even better than european versions?


and thanks gibosi


----------



## gibosi

seamaster said:


> Even better than european versions?
> 
> 
> and thanks gibosi


 
  
 Joe seems to think so.


----------



## Seamaster

More details on signature would be nice


----------



## Oskari

You could do much worse than this.



 http://www.tubemaze.info/siemens-e81cc-triple-mica/


----------



## Seamaster

Good readings. Good tube Lod, I almost started my 12AT7 career with Siemens, according to gibosi source they are not good tubes......i am......but I do notice those Siemens are very cheap compare to others


----------



## parbaked

seamaster said:


> More details on signature would be nice


 
  
 Brent Jesse is always a good source for info on the various types.
 He does include a small section on the sonic character.
 http://www.audiotubes.com/12at7.htm


----------



## Seamaster

How about these? over rated?


----------



## Seamaster

Ok I think i will start with 6060 tubes, A2900 is too expensive for experiment


----------



## Oskari

Brimar 6060 is a _very_ warm tube in my experience.


----------



## leftside

Come join us on the Mac forums:
 http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?forums/mcintosh-audio.54/
 https://www.audioaficionado.org/forumdisplay.php?f=2


----------



## Seamaster

leftside said:


> Come join us on the Mac forums:
> http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?forums/mcintosh-audio.54/
> https://www.audioaficionado.org/forumdisplay.php?f=2




I will, I am already a member under same name


----------



## Seamaster

I am offering cable wear-in/burn-in service for all Glenn's friends and his customers for free, you only need to cover the shipping cost. The "burner" I have uses pink noise instead other methods such as high current. It will wear-in cables naturally without harm. I love this thing, and it did a wonderful job to my pre-amp (yes, it burn-in components too) that made a day and night difference in a good way.


----------



## dminches

My new Elrog 300Bs burning away in my Lampizator DAC.


----------



## jelt2359

So I just traded an amp for this GOTL!


----------



## jekjek

jelt2359 said:


> So I just traded an amp for this GOTL!




You got it in Singapore?


----------



## jelt2359

jekjek said:


> You got it in Singapore?




Nope. Glenn is still finishing up on this build. Gonna come directly from him.


----------



## Khragon

dminches said:


> My new Elrog 300Bs burning away in my Lampizator DAC.


 
  
 Nice photo, I missed the glow from my Elrog, you're a brave one, Elrog are fragile and can fail easily.  I got two pairs, first one failed, replaced, 2nd failed again and Elrog refused to exchange claiming I'm out of warranty.


----------



## dminches

Thomas Mayer bought the company and supposedly revamped the tube to increase the stability.  I figured with a 1 year warranty I should be good if it is going to fail.


----------



## Seamaster

dminches said:


> My new Elrog 300Bs burning away in my Lampizator DAC.


 
  
  
 Nice DAC, how do you like it against Van Alstine FET Valve DAC?


----------



## dminches

Honestly, I have never listened to both DACs in the same systems but the Lampi creates a level of detail that I have not heard in any of my other DACs. I guess one day I should A/B them.


----------



## Seamaster

dminches said:


> Honestly, I have never listened to both DACs in the same systems but the Lampi creates a level of detail that I have not heard in any of my other DACs. I guess one day I should A/B them.


 
 Yes, I am very curious about the comparison.


----------



## jekjek

jelt2359 said:


> So I just traded an amp for this GOTL!


 
  


jekjek said:


> You got it in Singapore?


 
@2359glenn  that's 4 huge capacitors Glenn, I did not see that in Ken's amp
 What improvement can we get from that huge caps?


----------



## whirlwind

jelt2359 said:


> So I just traded an amp for this GOTL!


 
 Wow....huge caps for sure.
  
 Are those six Tung Sol 6BL7/6BX7 tubes in there ?
  
 What other tubes ?
  
 Enquiring minds want to know


----------



## Rossliew

Nice amp you're getting, -Jason!


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> jelt2359 said:
> 
> 
> > So I just traded an amp for this GOTL!
> ...


 

 Those caps are Clarity Cap TC 600  440uf. 2 are used for output coupling in place of electrolytic caps.
 And the other 2 are the last cap in the split power supply. As the audio signal also goes through the last cap in the
 power supply they were upgraded from electrolytic to these.
 Will find out the SQ this weekend.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> jelt2359 said:
> 
> 
> > So I just traded an amp for this GOTL!
> ...


 

 Six 6BL7/6BX7 two or four 6AS7 / 5998 or two 6336 a 6SN7 or two C3g for drivers and a E80CC preamp output driver.


----------



## whirlwind

Very cool!


----------



## jekjek

I love amplifier with big capacitor


----------



## lukeap69

Interested to know how much better this amp is compared to the 'regular' Glenn OTL amp. IIRC, the cost of this amp is almost one regular OTL with Lundahl trafo and a EL3N amp...


----------



## jelt2359

lukeap69 said:


> Interested to know how much better this amp is compared to the 'regular' Glenn OTL amp. IIRC, the cost of this amp is almost one regular OTL with Lundahl trafo and a EL3N amp...




I guess we'll find out this weekend. Turns out it's not cheap to build an ultimate GOTL!


----------



## parbaked

jelt2359 said:


> ultimate GOTL!


 
 TOTL GOTL...nice work Glenn!!


----------



## whirlwind

jelt2359 said:


> lukeap69 said:
> 
> 
> > Interested to know how much better this amp is compared to the 'regular' Glenn OTL amp. IIRC, the cost of this amp is almost one regular OTL with Lundahl trafo and a EL3N amp...
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, those Lundahl's transformers are not cheap...but they sure are nice!


----------



## 2359glenn

jelt2359 said:


> lukeap69 said:
> 
> 
> > Interested to know how much better this amp is compared to the 'regular' Glenn OTL amp. IIRC, the cost of this amp is almost one regular OTL with Lundahl trafo and a EL3N amp...
> ...


 

 All resistors in the amplification circuits are 1% don't know if this will make it sound better.
 But it will make more accurate balance between channels.


----------



## 2359glenn

Burning in the new OTL using 6336 tubes on low impedance setting. This is giving it a good cooking.
 So far sounding good with 32 ohm phones.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Burning in the new OTL using 6336 tubes on low impedance setting. This is giving it a good cooking.
> So far sounding good with 32 ohm phones.


 
  
 Very nice....what headphones are you using Glenn?


----------



## gibosi

Another rectifier arrived today, an RFT AZ12. My guess is "18 / 55" indicates it was manufactured in the 18th week of 1955. RFT (Radio Funk Technik?) manufactured this tube in Röhrenwerk Mühlhausen, a state-owned factory in East Germany, during the Cold War. The logo shows an "m" on top of a tube base with three circles, signifying radio waves.
  

  
 It has a top ceramic spacer between the two plates and two side-mica braces to stabilize the structure inside the bottle. There is no bottom spacer.
  

  
 I hope to light it up later today.


----------



## 2359glenn

Nice another 4 volt rectifier none really powerful enough for the OTL.
  
 Burning the new OTL now with four 6AS7s on low impedance.


----------



## gibosi

For sure, the AZ12 is not powerful enough to run the GOTL with 6AS7s, but it is more than adequate with four 6BL7. And as more and more folks get their hands on a GEL3N, the AZ12 is well worth considering.
  
 Further, don't forget that there are a number of 4 volt rectifiers that can provide at least 250mA, powerful enough to run the GOTL with 6AS7s. For example, FW4-500, 45-IU, U18/20, AX50, AZ50, UU8 and RGN4004.
  
 Cheers


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> For sure, the AZ12 is not powerful enough to run the GOTL with 6AS7s, but it is more than adequate with four 6BL7. And as more and more folks get their hands on a GEL3N, the AZ12 is well worth considering.
> 
> Further, don't forget that there are a number of 4 volt rectifiers that can provide at least 250mA, powerful enough to run the GOTL with 6AS7s. For example, FW4-500, 45-IU, U18/20, AX50, AZ50, UU8 and RGN4004.
> 
> Cheers


 

 Yes it should be great in the EL3N amp


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> RFT (Radio Funk Technik?)




There are several answers to this question. _Rundfunk- und Fernmelde-Technik_ is one that'll do fine.




> manufactured this tube in Röhrenwerk Mühlhausen, a state-owned factory in East Germany, during the Cold War.




The Mühlhausen facility was a former Lorenz tube factory.


----------



## gibosi

Oskari, as always, thanks for the additional information.


----------



## gibosi

I hope everyone is enjoying the winter holiday season. As for me, I am sipping some eggnog, with a little rum to improve the flavor, and listening to some of my favorite tunes. And I am hoping that Santa Claus with be here soon with some new tubes. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> I hope everyone is enjoying the winter holiday season. As for me, I am sipping some eggnog, with a little rum to improve the flavor, and listening to some of my favorite tunes. And I am hoping that Santa Claus with be here soon with some new tubes.
> 
> Cheers


 
 Happy holidays Ken. Why new tubes and not new amp?


----------



## gibosi

Unfortunately, my personal Santa Claus is a bit strapped for money...  lol


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, my personal Santa Claus is a bit strapped for money...  lol


 
 That's very funny Ken. My first good laugh for today. Cheers.


----------



## gibosi

A 4-volt rectifier arrived today! Santa Claus came through for me! 
  
 (And I suspect that Glenn will be relieved to learn that this is not another "puny" rectifier. lol 
  
 A 4-volt British Mazda / Ediswan UU8 can provide up to 250 mA, enough to run the OTL with 6AS7s.
  
 https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/146/u/UU8.pdf
  
 This tube is fitted with a Mazda Octal base. While it is an octal, it cannot be inserted into a standard octal socket as the guide-pin is too large. Further, the pin-out of this tube is different than that of a 5U4, so once again, an adapter is necessary to reduce the voltage down to 4 volts and allow it to be used in a 5U4 socket. As I write this, an adapter is on its way to me from China.... soon, I hope....


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> A 4-volt rectifier arrived today! Santa Claus came through for me!
> 
> (And I suspect that Glenn will be relieved to learn that this is not another "puny" rectifier. lol
> 
> ...


 

 I should have made your amp with a 3.3>4>5 volt filament winding transformer.


----------



## 2359glenn

Merry Christmas and happy Hanukkah to all.
  
 Glenn


----------



## Khragon

Happy holidays to all!
  
 May happiness be with you always.
  
 My current setup, just got iFi Pro iCan and I have to say very enjoyable amp, very close to Glenn 300B with WE300B tubes, still missing that 300B midrange magic, but allowing me to use SS during the weekdays and saving my G300B for the weekend without missing too much.  Although I have to get my WE300B fix by the weekend though.
  
  

  
  
  

  
  
 and here's something we don't see everyday, the background dancers
  

  
  
 Cheers!


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I should have made your amp with a 3.3>4>5 volt filament winding transformer.


 
  
 Initially, I thought this was a great idea. But after thinking about it some, I doubt it would be worth the time and effort....
  
 I have yet to find a 4V rectifier fitted with a standard octal base. And in fact, so far I have come across four different bases for these rectifiers. So even if you had built my amp with the capability to heat 4V rectifiers, I would still need four different adapters to allow the use of 4V rectifiers in a 5U4 socket. Currently, all the adapters I have seen on eBay come with resistors to drop the 5V provided by the amp to 4V. So if my amp could provide 4V, I would have to ask the adapter builders to custom-make one adapter for each base without the resistor. And very frankly, I am not sure they would be all that willing to do this... After all, I might be the only one in the world who could use these adapters....
  
 Cheers


----------



## Xcalibur255

Happy Holidays everybody.


----------



## xpboy7

Yo guys,
 Is it still possible to get this amp?


----------



## rosgr63

Merry Christmas and happy Hanukkah!!!!


----------



## xpboy7

rosgr63 said:


> Merry Christmas and happy Hanukkah!!!!


 
 Merry Christmas


----------



## xpboy7

double.


----------



## whirlwind

Merry Christmas & Happy Hanukkah to all.


----------



## Seamaster

Merry Christmas and pre-happy New Year! Enjoy music.....


----------



## raybone0566

Merry x-mas to everyone. My first attempt at Xmas dinner as the wife just had surgery. How'd I do


----------



## xpboy7

raybone0566 said:


> Merry x-mas to everyone. My first attempt at Xmas dinner as the wife just had surgery. How'd I do


 
 Rum Ham


----------



## Clayton SF

Eat well. Drink sensibly. Listen to your (ears' and) heart's content!
 I am looking forward to 2017!


----------



## Seamaster

Need help here!
  
 I accidentally bought some F6060 tubes that I did not realize they have flying lead instead regular 9-pins. Glenn, can you make adapter for them to use in 12AT7 applications? BTW they are safe to use right? Thanks


----------



## Seamaster

I had little too much these when I bough those tubes :mad::mad:


----------



## gibosi

Santa brought me a couple more 4V rectifiers suitable for use with 6AS7s in the OTL. Both of these tubes can provide 250 mA, similar to a GZ37.
  
 An AZ50 manufactured by Mullard in it's Blackburn factory in 1958.
  

  
 And a Mullard FW4-500, also manufactured in their Blackburn factory, but sometime before 1955. Starting around 1955, Mullard adopted the Philips production code, but prior, Mullard used an in-house production code, which I have yet to learn how to decipher.
  
 Interestingly, this tube is also labeled as an AZ50, but Mullard didn't begin to manufacture the AZ50 until the late 1950's. The AZ50 was originally developed and manufactured in Philip's Eindhoven factory. Sometime in the late 1950's production of the AZ50 ceased at Eindhoven and shifted to Blackburn. I often see FW4-500 labeled as AZ50, so it would seem that these two tubes were considered interchangeable.
  

  
 My suspicion is that this is a fairly early tube due to the extra top mica spacer intended to keep the internals centered inside the bottle.
  

  
 Later versions, such as the one below, used a top mica spacer with teeth.


----------



## jekjek

Happy New Year 2017 All...


----------



## lukeap69

Happy new year everyone!


----------



## Khragon

Happy new year to all!


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Santa brought me a couple more 4V rectifiers suitable for use with 6AS7s in the OTL. Both of these tubes can provide 250 mA, similar to a GZ37.
> 
> An AZ50 manufactured by Mullard in it's Blackburn factory in 1958.
> 
> ...


 

 Let us know how they sound .


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy New Year everyone


----------



## 2359glenn

seamaster said:


> Need help here!
> 
> I accidentally bought some F6060 tubes that I did not realize they have flying lead instead regular 9-pins. Glenn, can you make adapter for them to use in 12AT7 applications? BTW they are safe to use right? Thanks


 

 I can put on 9 pin basis on these for you, It seems that the pins are in the same order that will make it easier.


----------



## whirlwind

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Let us know how they sound .


 
  
 I now have about 25 of these 4V rectifiers, and since only one or two have 5V equivalents, they are all new and different to my ears. I figure it will take a good while to spend enough time with each to get a good handle on their sonic signatures.
  
 As I have wandered through the world of 4V rectifiers, my default driver has been the Mullard ECC31. However, coupled with these Mullard rectifiers, my initial impression is this combination provides a bit too much "Mullard Goodness" so to speak. the bass is bloated and the highs are muted. So in order to help these Mullard rectifiers sound their best, yesterday, I substituted in a B36 driver and the result is delicious. As usual, the Mullards put the vocals front and center, rich and full. And with the B36, the bass is tighter, with good definition, and the highs have more presence, a winning combination.
  
 Eventually, I hope to be able to compare these two with the later Mullard GZ32, GZ33 and GZ37, all of which were made in the same factory, to see if I can decide on a favorite or two...
  
  
 OH! Happy New Year!!


----------



## gibosi

gibosi said:


> Eventually, I hope to be able to compare these two with the later Mullard GZ32, GZ33 and GZ37, all of which were made in the same factory, to see if I can decide on a favorite or two...


 
  
 I was all set to watch a movie this evening, but upon opening the Netflix envelope I discovered that the DVD was broken. And so unexpectedly, I had some time on my hands tonight to compare a bunch of Mullard rectifiers: FW4-500, AZ50, GZ32 and GZ37.
  
 I know the sound of GZ32 and GZ37 fairly well, and in terms of tonality, to my ears they are very similar. However, I think the GZ32 is a bit more transparent and 3D, and I prefer it to the GZ37. Rolling in the FW4-500, the tonality is very similar to the GZ32 and GZ37. In short, I would say that it is closer to the GZ37, as I don't think it is quite as transparent as the GZ32.
  
 Rolling in the AZ50, it definitely "sounds" like a Mullard, but it is slightly more forward than the others. Upon reflection, I wonder if this might be the result of the fact that the AZ50 was not designed and developed at Blackburn, as was the case with FW4-500, GZ32 and GZ37. Rather, the AZ50 is a Philips design first developed and manufactured at the Eindhoven facility. When Philips decided to shift the production of the AZ50 to Mullard, the result might be considered something of a "hybrid" between the "Eindhoven sound" and the "Blackburn sound". Whatever the case may be, in my opinion, the GZ32 is the better tube. But as always, my ears and my gear. YMMV. 
  
 PS: My GZ33 is still on loan... I need to get it back! 
 PPS: The GZ32 is a "real" Mullard. Accept no substitutes! lol


----------



## Khragon

Amazon is offering online movie rental for $0.99 so you can still enjoy your movie night.


----------



## gibosi

khragon said:


> Amazon is offering online movie rental for $0.99 so you can still enjoy your movie night.


 
  
 I don't have Amazon Prime, if that makes a difference... And I wonder if Amazon has "Foyles War", a British detective series?
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foyle's_War
  
 I am in the middle of series two.


----------



## Khragon

I don't have prime and it worked for me.  Worth a try, watched Sully, and thought it was pretty good.


----------



## Seamaster

2359glenn said:


> I can put on 9 pin basis on these for you, It seems that the pins are in the same order that will make it easier.


 

 Thank you Glenn, I know you were going to save my a** again.


----------



## Seamaster

gibosi said:


> I was all set to watch a movie this evening, but upon opening the Netflix envelope I discovered that the DVD was broken. And so unexpectedly, I had some time on my hands tonight to compare a bunch of Mullard rectifiers: FW4-500, AZ50, GZ32 and GZ37.
> 
> I know the sound of GZ32 and GZ37 fairly well, and in terms of tonality, to my ears they are very similar. However, I think the GZ32 is a bit more transparent and 3D, and I prefer it to the GZ37. Rolling in the FW4-500, the tonality is very similar to the GZ32 and GZ37. In short, I would say that it is closer to the GZ37, as I don't think it is quite as transparent as the GZ32.
> 
> ...


 
 I was not impressed with Mullard GZ37. Have you tried U52? I have tired almost every 5U4G types and finally settled on a GEC U52 that wins in my book, bar none. I have one in my preamp currently, I don't think I will ever change it out. The GEC is smooth, balanced, and packed with huge dynamic. They worth every penny IMHO and save you money in the long run. You can get them here:
  
 https://tubeworldexpress.com/search?q=u52


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> I was all set to watch a movie this evening, but upon opening the Netflix envelope I discovered that the DVD was broken. And so unexpectedly, I had some time on my hands tonight to compare a bunch of Mullard rectifiers: FW4-500, AZ50, GZ32 and GZ37.
> 
> I know the sound of GZ32 and GZ37 fairly well, and in terms of tonality, to my ears they are very similar. However, I think the GZ32 is a bit more transparent and 3D, and I prefer it to the GZ37. Rolling in the FW4-500, the tonality is very similar to the GZ32 and GZ37. In short, I would say that it is closer to the GZ37, as I don't think it is quite as transparent as the GZ32.
> 
> ...


 
 Have you try AX50 Ken?


----------



## jekjek

My new rectifiers find are ready for Glenn amplifiers 
 Mullard GZ37, tfk AZ12, AZ4, AZ1, AZ50, AX50, 1805. 
 Thank you Ken for your passion in rectifiers and introducing us to these good tubes


----------



## gibosi

seamaster said:


> I was not impressed with Mullard GZ37. Have you tried U52? I have tired almost every 5U4G types and finally settled on a GEC U52 that wins in my book, bar none. I have one in my preamp currently, I don't think I will ever change it out. The GEC is smooth, balanced, and packed with huge dynamic. They worth every penny IMHO and save you money in the long run. You can get them here:
> 
> https://tubeworldexpress.com/search?q=u52


 
  
 In my experience, there is no one rectifier that is best in all systems and with all ears. For sure, the Mullard GZ37 is not one of my favorite rectifiers, but coupled with the B36, it is quite good. And the Mullard GZ32 is even better. While I don't have the GEC U52, I do have the GEC U18/20, which is the 4V version of the U52. And to my ears, it excels in some configurations, but tends to be too thin and too airy in others. For example, the U18/20 is superb with the Mullard ECC31 as a driver, but if I roll in a B36, to my ears, the Cossor 53KU is better.
  
 So again, the "best" rectifier is very system-dependent, IMHO. But of course, this is with my ears and my gear and more than 30 different rectifiers to play with.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Have you try AX50 Ken?


 
  
 Yes, I have tried the AX50. Instead of a "vacuum" tube the AX50 is a "gas-filled" tube. And that gas is mercury vapor. There are a couple of things to keep in mind when using mercury-vapor rectifiers.
  
 First, this tube requires preheating. That is, the heaters should be energized first, for several minutes, to warm-up the cathodes before voltage is applied to the plates. If the tube is not preheated, the tube is prone to arcing, and therefore, I do not recommend the use of any mercury-vapor rectifier unless you can find a way to preheat it.
  
 And second, mercury is a poison. If the glass envelope of one of these rectifiers was to break while in operation, the hot vapor would immediately disperse throughout the room. If you are in that room, it will likely be impossible to avoid inhaling the vapor and this would require you to seek immediate medical care. And afterwards, it may well be necessary to hire a hazardous materials remediation company to clean the premises to prevent further exposure. Yes, the risk of a rectifier breaking in operation is very small, but it is not zero.
  
 Some folks think that the risk is too low to be concerned about, but in my opinion, the decision to use a mercury-vapor rectifier is not one that should be taken lightly, especially if you do not live alone...
  


jekjek said:


> My new rectifiers find are ready for Glenn amplifiers
> Mullard GZ37, tfk AZ12, AZ4, AZ1, AZ50, AX50, 1805.
> Thank you Ken for your passion in rectifiers and introducing us to these good tubes


 
  
 That's a great collection! And since you can run lower-power rectifiers than I can, such as the AZ1 and the 1805, the number of rectifiers you can run is huge!
 Enjoy!


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Yes, I have tried the AX50. Instead of a "vacuum" tube the AX50 is a "gas-filled" tube. And that gas is mercury vapor. There are a couple of things to keep in mind when using mercury-vapor rectifiers.
> 
> First, this tube requires preheating. That is, the heaters should be energized first, for several minutes, to warm-up the cathodes before voltage is applied to the plates. If the tube is not preheated, the tube is prone to arcing, and therefore, I do not recommend the use of any mercury-vapor rectifier unless you can find a way to preheat it.
> 
> ...




Ok. I'm returning the AX50


----------



## Seamaster

gibosi said:


> In my experience, there is no one rectifier that is best in all systems and with all ears. For sure, the Mullard GZ37 is not one of my favorite rectifiers, but coupled with the B36, it is quite good. And the Mullard GZ32 is even better. While I don't have the GEC U52, I do have the GEC U18/20, which is the 4V version of the U52. And to my ears, it excels in some configurations, but tends to be too thin and too airy in others. For example, the U18/20 is superb with the Mullard ECC31 as a driver, but if I roll in a B36, to my ears, the Cossor 53KU is better.
> 
> So again, the "best" rectifier is very system-dependent, IMHO. But of course, this is with my ears and my gear and more than 30 different rectifiers to play with.


 

 You are absolutely right on tube paring. I am current running a Brimar CV1988, which is a warm tube to compensate the U52, therefore I don't feel lost of density. If you like, I can sent you the U52 i have to test it out.


----------



## gibosi

seamaster said:


> You are absolutely right on tube paring. I am current running a Brimar CV1988, which is a warm tube to compensate the U52, therefore I don't feel lost of density. If you like, I can sent you the U52 i have to test it out.


 
  
 I would very much like to be able to directly compare the U18/20 to the U52, However, given the cost of a U52, I am very reluctant to take you up on your very kind offer.
  
 Here is a picture of a GEC U18/20. Does it look familiar? Again, I am fairly convinced that the U52 and U18/20 are identical, except for the heater and base
  
 U18/20


----------



## Seamaster

gibosi said:


> I would very much like to be able to directly compare the U18/20 to the U52, However, given the cost of a U52, I am very reluctant to take you up on your very kind offer.
> 
> Here is a picture of a GEC U18/20. Does it look familiar? Again, I am fairly convinced that the U52 and U18/20 are identical, except for the heater and base
> 
> U18/20


 

 Yes, they are identical in construction indeed!


----------



## Silent One

Wishing you all health, peace & good audio in 2017!


----------



## gibosi

Yesterday, I received a Miniwatt Dario 5R4GYS. Dario was a trademark of La Radiotechnique (RT), located in France. While Upscale Audio advertises this tube as having been manufactured in Holland "where the famous Amperex Bugle Boy tubes were made", I consider this very doubtful. Philips was scrupulous in applying production codes to tubes manufactured in their Holland factories, but there is no production code on the tube I received. And further, in all the pictures I have viewed on the internet, I have never seen a Philips production code on any of these tubes.
  
 That said, RT was acquired by Philips in 1931. And I have a number of tubes - ECC40 and E88CC - manufactured by RT with Philips production codes. So I add this to my rather long list of unsolved vacuum tube mysteries: I have no idea why all these 5R4GYS, apparently manufactured by RT, do not have Philips production codes.
  
 Many of 5R4GYS on eBay were manufactured in the 1970's. They carry the Philips label and within a silk-screened box, "0 - 5R4GYS" on the first line and then what appears to be a date code, for example, "73 FRS 07". As it is my practice to always buy the oldest tubes I can find, I have avoided these.
  
 When the one pictured below, with a rectangular getter, popped up for $30, I grabbed it. As halo getters appeared around 1960, my guess is that this tube was manufactured in the 1950's.
  
 FWIW, running four 6BX7 as outputs, the calculated Vdrop is 37.


----------



## Oskari

That's a different, French, type of code. FRS is the factory, apparently Suresnes. I've never seen a complete list of these factory codes.


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> That's a different, French, type of code. FRS is the factory, apparently Suresnes. I've never seen a complete list of these factory codes.


 
  
 Thanks, I figured it was either Suresnes or Chartres.
  
 But again, I have ECC40 and E88CC manufactured in Suresnes, with Philips production codes. And yet here we have the 5R4GYS, also apparently manufactured in Suresnes, with no Philips codes....  
  
 However, I think I did see somewhere that Philips controlled only 49.9% of RT, so while it was very closely tied to Philips, it was not a wholly-owned Philips subsidiary. And this might explain why they did not always follow the Philips company line on the use of production codes...


----------



## Oskari

Another theory could be that some player in France required those codes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It looks structurally the same as my Philips 5R4GYS.  Best rectifier tube I've ever used in my Inspire btw, followed closely by the Brimar version of the same tube.  Maybe it's the hung filaments but the european 5R4 tubes just sound more refined than the american ones do.


----------



## Seamaster

gibosi said:


> Yesterday, I received a Miniwatt Dario 5R4GYS. Dario was a trademark of La Radiotechnique (RT), located in France. While Upscale Audio advertises this tube as having been manufactured in Holland "where the famous Amperex Bugle Boy tubes were made", I consider this very doubtful. Philips was scrupulous in applying production codes to tubes manufactured in their Holland factories, but there is no production code on the tube I received. And further, in all the pictures I have viewed on the internet, I have never seen a Philips production code on any of these tubes.
> 
> That said, RT was acquired by Philips in 1931. And I have a number of tubes - ECC40 and E88CC - manufactured by RT with Philips production codes. So I add this to my rather long list of unsolved vacuum tube mysteries: I have no idea why all these 5R4GYS, apparently manufactured by RT, do not have Philips production codes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Let us know how it sound.


----------



## gibosi

seamaster said:


> Let us know how it sound.


 
  
 As per Dubstep Girl's review,
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread#post_10053310
  
 I find the Philips 5R4GYS to be a rather warm tube with a slightly forward "sweet tubey midrange", an elevated treble presence and a nice amount of air. Unlike Dubstep Girl, I do not find the treble to be "hard". But of course, my system and my ears are very different than hers.
  
 After having listened to about 25 different European and British 4V rectifiers, I have noticed that rectifiers and double triodes manufactured in the same factory often sound very similar. To my ears, an E88CC and a 5R4GYS manufactured in Suresnes have a similar sound. For sure, they do not sound identical, but there does seem to be a recognizable "Suresnes sound signature.". And I would say that that signature is very similar to the Philip's Holland (Eindhoven, Heerlen and Sittard) sound, with similar warmth, a slightly forward midrange, but with a bit more treble presence and air.
  
 Personally, I am not a big fan of most Suresnes and Philip's Holland-made rectifiers and double triodes because of that midrange emphasis. The effect of this emphasis, to my mind, is to pull the vocals closer, which tends to foreshorten the perceived depth of field. Again. In my mind. That said, this is a very nice rectifier. As Xcalibur255 notes, in the right system it is superb. And I suspect that if I was willing to invest the time, I could find a driver/output tube combination that would make this rectifier "rock". 
  
 If one can be found for a decent price, go for it.
  


xcalibur255 said:


> It looks structurally the same as my Philips 5R4GYS.  Best rectifier tube I've ever used in my Inspire btw, followed closely by the Brimar version of the same tube.  Maybe it's the hung filaments but the european 5R4 tubes just sound more refined than the american ones do.


 
  
 Again, all Philips 5R4GYS were made by La Radiotechnique in their Suresnes factory, located near Paris. So whether labeled Philips or Dario, they are all the same tube.


----------



## Seamaster

gibosi said:


> As per Dubstep Girl's review,
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread#post_10053310
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks gibosi, now you get me started to roll rectifier again! This never ends......


----------



## gibosi

seamaster said:


> Thanks gibosi, now you get me started to roll rectifier again! This never ends......


 
  
 Tell me about it! My collection includes more than 30 different rectifiers and I have five more on their way to me as I write this... lol


----------



## whirlwind

Ken, you will be able to have a tube museum


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Ken, you will be able to have a tube museum


 
  
 And maybe I could charge admission to recover some of the cost?  lol


----------



## gibosi

To those of you who have or are considering a GEL3N: You might want to consider asking one of the Chinese eBay adapter vendors to build an EL11 to EL3N adapter.
  
 The EL11 is Telefunken's version of the EL3N. The only difference is it is fitted with the German octal base instead of the side-contact base found on the EL3N.
  
 There is also the EL12, which is a higher powered version of the EL11. However, as it has about twice the power of the EL3N, Glenn will have to let us know if it would be OK to use it in his EL3N amp.
  
 Cheers


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> To those of you who have or are considering a GEL3N: You might want to consider asking one of the Chinese eBay adapter vendors to build an EL11 to EL3N adapter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How about EL33?
I found a few of it as well


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> To those of you who have or are considering a GEL3N: You might want to consider asking one of the Chinese eBay adapter vendors to build an EL11 to EL3N adapter.
> 
> The EL11 is Telefunken's version of the EL3N. The only difference is it is fitted with the German octal base instead of the side-contact base found on the EL3N.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The folk over in the FA thread seem to like the EL11 tubes real well.
  
 I like the pins on the EL11 much better than those side pins on the EL3N
  
 I think Glenn may still have a touch of the flu bug.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I like the pins on the EL11 much better than those side pins on the EL3N
> 
> I think Glenn may still have a touch of the flu bug.


 
  
 I have a number of rectifiers fitted with the German octal base and is by far my favorite base. As can be seen in the pic below, the pins are not the same thickness along their length. They almost look like they they were turned on a lathe. And by design, the slightly bulbous tip allows the tube to be snapped in and out of the socket very easily. And once snapped in, the tube is very secure. I have also noticed that the metal is rather soft and as a consequence, it is very easy to clean the pins with a stiff wire brush.
  
 My least favorite base is the side-contact base. I am finding it very hard to remove these tubes from the adapter socket. On several occasions, the glass bottle has come lose from the base and I have had to re-glue it. To say the least, this is a pain. Anyway, I have decided to try some electrical control/contact cleaner and lubricant spray to see if that makes it any easier.
  
 Glenn... hope you are feeling better soon.


----------



## Seamaster

gibosi said:


> I have a number of rectifiers fitted with the German octal base and is by far my favorite base. As can be seen in the pic below, the pins are not the same thickness along their length. They almost look like they they were turned on a lathe. And by design, the slightly bulbous tip allows the tube to be snapped in and out of the socket very easily. And once snapped in, the tube is very secure. I have also noticed that the metal is rather soft and as a consequence, it is very easy to clean the pins with a stiff wire brush.
> 
> My least favorite base is the side-contact base. I am finding it very hard to remove these tubes from the adapter socket. On several occasions, the glass bottle has come lose from the base and I have had to re-glue it. To say the least, this is a pain. Anyway, I have decided to try some electrical control/contact cleaner and lubricant spray to see if that makes it any easier.
> 
> Glenn... hope you are feeling better soon.


 
  
 http://www.jacmusic.com/accesories/Tube-Glue/tube-glue-.html
  
 http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/glue.htm


----------



## gibosi

seamaster said:


> http://www.jacmusic.com/accesories/Tube-Glue/tube-glue-.html
> 
> http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/glue.htm


 
  
 I just use a hard finger nail polish and a couple rubber bands to reglue bases. "Hard as Nails" is a common American brand, and it works fine for me. I like the fact that if I ever need to remove the base in order to re-solder the connections, finger nail polish remover makes it easy. Again, the real problem is with some of the adapters I have....
  

  
 And I am pleased to report that the electrical control/contact cleaner and lubricant spray seems to help. I received a Philips Eindhoven-made AZ4 from the late 1930's today, applied the lubricant to the adapter and the base, and insertion and extraction is now much easier. Life is good.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> I just use a hard finger nail polish and a couple rubber bands to reglue bases. "Hard as Nails" is a common American brand, and it works fine for me. I like the fact that if I ever need to remove the base in order to re-solder the connections, finger nail polish remover makes it easy. Again, the real problem is with some of the adapters I have....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 I'm still using power glue to reglue this. I shall buy some finger nail polish for this next time


----------



## Seamaster

gibosi said:


> I just use a hard finger nail polish and a couple rubber bands to reglue bases. "Hard as Nails" is a common American brand, and it works fine for me. I like the fact that if I ever need to remove the base in order to re-solder the connections, finger nail polish remover makes it easy. Again, the real problem is with some of the adapters I have....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That looks like Popeye in a pink speedo


----------



## gibosi

seamaster said:


> That looks like Popeye in a pink speedo


 
  
 lol 
  
 I managed to buy this Cossor 53KU cheap because the base was very loose, with only that pink rubber band holding it together. Even after regluing, I have kept the rubber band on because I think it probably does make the joint somewhat stronger.
  
 I wouldn't mind having a few more of these rubber bands. Does anyone know where I can buy some?


----------



## Seamaster

gibosi said:


> lol
> 
> I managed to buy this Cossor 53KU cheap because the base was very loose, with only that pink rubber band holding it together. Even after regluing, I have kept the rubber band on because I think it probably does make the joint somewhat stronger.
> 
> I wouldn't mind having a few more of these rubber bands. Does anyone know where I can buy some?


 

 You have to make sure they color match, I think you can get them in craft stores.
  

  
 Hey look, that is my squad.


----------



## gibosi

Recently picked up another old Mullard FW4-500. As I already have several of these tubes, I didn't really need it. And so I must confess that the only reason I bought it was because it looks cool


----------



## Rossliew

Ken, are you able to roll all these rectifiers in your OTL? Lol


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Ken, are you able to roll all these rectifiers in your OTL? Lol


 
  
 Yes. 
  
 However, unlike most GOTL owners, I suspect, I am currently running four 6BX7 as output tubes, rather than two 6AS7. And therefore, I can use rectifiers that can provide as little as 170mA, rather than 250mA required for two 6AS7. This allows me to run AZ4, AZ12, UU8, RGN2504 and equivalents.
  
 Further, for all of these 4V rectifiers, none of which are fitted with the standard octal base, I use adapters which reduce the 5V provided by the OTL down to 4, and allow them to be used in a 5U4 circuit.
  
 The FW4-500 above can provide 250mA, so it is powerful enough to run two 6AS7. And it is fitted with a European B4 base, so I am using an adapter.


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> Yes.
> 
> However, unlike most GOTL owners, I suspect, I am currently running four 6BX7 as output tubes, rather than two 6AS7. And therefore, I can use rectifiers that can provide as little as 170mA, rather than 250mA required for two 6AS7. This allows me to run AZ4, AZ12, UU8, RGN2504 and equivalents.
> 
> ...




Wow! Gonna give me a serious case of the headaches swapping tubes.....but it sure sounds like a whole lotta fun!


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Yes.
> ...


 
 It sure does


----------



## Seamaster

gibosi is deep into this tube hole, a black kind...... he will never be normal again! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Let's teleport him back to the 60' where he is at the happiest.


----------



## Rossliew

He just needs his tube fix lol!


----------



## gibosi

seamaster said:


> gibosi is deep into this tube hole, a black kind...... he will never be normal again!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've not been normal my whole life! lol 
  
 And if you're going to teleport me, send me farther back please. In my opinion, the late 1930's through the early 1950's was the golden age of tubes.


----------



## TonyNewman

Got my baby back today after having the rectification fully converted to Hexfred solid state.
  
 Thanks again to Glenn for sharing the secret sauce on the steps to do the diode conversion - helped my local tube guy do the job easily.
  
 Amp is working flawlessly. Any previous buzz / hum has been banished - I hope forever. Exactly what I was hoping for. C3Gs are doing their usual transparent job, leaving the TA300Bs to add their magic to the SQ.
  

  
 This upgrade has put me back in the love period of my slightly schizophrenic love-hate-love-hate-love relationship with tubes and tube gear. Anyone that has had multiple amp + multiple 300B tube failures in their lives will know where I am coming from. At times I want to give tubes the flick forever, at other times I want to dry hump my amp and make babies with it. Call me fickle (and maybe a little bit strange).
  
 For anyone experiencing hum / buzz issues that just won't go away, I can recommend considering going SS rectification. Worked for me, might work for you too.
  
 On another topic, my local tube guy might have a line on some new production round style DC 100mA meters that would be more in keeping with the look of the amp. If these work out as an easy replacement I will share the details here.
  

   
The square style meters look at bit off to me. They work fine - it's purely a cosmetic thing in my head.


----------



## Seamaster

tonynewman said:


> schizophrenic love-hate-love-hate-love relationship .


 
  
 Like my marriage!
  
  
  
 BTW, I missed, how did you guys took the metal shield off from the C3G tubes?


----------



## gibosi

seamaster said:


> BTW, I missed, how did you guys took the metal shield off from the C3G tubes?


 
  
 Personally, I prefer that my C3g remain fully clothed. 
  
 But if this is something you really want to do, over in the Little Dot rolling thread, Hypnos1 posted a quick little show and tell with pictures on how to remove the cans:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/5670#post_10412030


----------



## Seamaster

gibosi said:


> Personally, I prefer that my C3g remain fully clothed.
> 
> But if this is something you really want to do, over in the Little Dot rolling thread, Hypnos1 posted a quick little show and tell with pictures on how to remove the cans:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/5670#post_10412030


 

 That is quite easy actually, thanks!


----------



## TonyNewman

seamaster said:


> ... BTW, I missed, how did you guys took the metal shield off from the C3G tubes?


 
  
 RealMen(tm) chew them off in a drunken rage while beating their chest and consuming handfuls of raw flesh.
  
 The rest of us use a metal file to carefully remove the metal seal at the base where the outer shell meets the seating plate. Rub at a 45 degree angel and you will know when you are done - a thin sliver of metal comes loose. Once that is removed the metal shell can be eased off. I have posted pics earlier in this thread and other folks have also - so there should be some handy.
  
 I kinda don't recommend it. On my first go I broke a C3G - which is not a good thing. The resulting edge on the shell is razor sharp and it is ever so easy to screw up the alignment of the tube when inserting it (as the guide vane is missing with the removal of the base). The guts of the C3G are damn sexy though


----------



## Seamaster

tonynewman said:


> RealMen(tm) chew them off in a drunken rage while beating their chest and consuming handfuls of raw flesh.


 
  
 Thanks, I will practice on that.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Welcome fellow convert.    I haven't put tube rectifiers in my amp since I got my hexfreds.  If I could go back in time I would have had the amp built this way and not even have rectifier sockets.  If I hadn't had so much darn trouble with 6BY5G tubes maybe I would feel a little less strongly about it, but the bottom line for me is there are few if any downsides to the hexfreds and some substantial upsides to them.  Unless a person really truly wants his amp to sound romantic at the expense of resolution I can't see anybody taking issue with the changes to the sound.  It was a flat out improvement to my ears.
  
 If you just got this conversion finished Tony then you're in for good times.  The hexfreds improve during their first 60-75 hours of use.  I thought they sounded dry when new, but that sorted itself out.
  
 Quote:


tonynewman said:


> Got my baby back today after having the rectification fully converted to Hexfred solid state.
> 
> Thanks again to Glenn for sharing the secret sauce on the steps to do the diode conversion - helped my local tube guy do the job easily.
> 
> Amp is working flawlessly. Any previous buzz / hum has been banished - I hope forever. Exactly what I was hoping for. C3Gs are doing their usual transparent job, leaving the TA300Bs to add their magic to the SQ.


----------



## Xcalibur255

seamaster said:


> Like my marriage!
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I missed, how did you guys took the metal shield off from the C3G tubes?


 
  
 What I did was pry out the edge where the outer canister meets the inner base with the edge of a pocket knife.  Sort of like opening a can when you don't have a can opener.  I never broke a tube doing this, but it sucked and I stabbed myself twice in the process.  I can say I won't bother doing it again.  I sold one of the pairs I stripped to somebody else (I think it was David if memory serves) to spare him from having to go through the process.  The pair I have left I'm not even using.  Most of the tube glow in my amp came from the rectifiers so with them gone I didn't feel the need for the light show.


----------



## Seamaster

xcalibur255 said:


> What I did was pry out the edge where the outer canister meets the inner base with the edge of a pocket knife.  Sort of like opening a can when you don't have a can opener.  I never broke a tube doing this, but it sucked and I stabbed myself twice in the process.  I can say I won't bother doing it again.  I sold one of the pairs I stripped to somebody else (I think it was David if memory serves) to spare him from having to go through the process.  The pair I have left I'm not even using.  Most of the tube glow in my amp came from the rectifiers so with them gone I didn't feel the need for the light show.


 

 Thanks for the tip.


----------



## TonyNewman

> ...





> If you just got this conversion finished Tony then you're in for good times.  The hexfreds improve during their first 60-75 hours of use.  I thought they sounded dry when new, but that sorted itself out.


 
  
 Thanks - good to know. I need to put more hours on the Taks anyway, so will see where I am at after 100+ hours.
  
 I am in complete agreement on SS rectification - I would also have had the amp built with SS rectification from day one "if I knew then what I know now". Hindsight is wonderful - I just did not know how problematic tube rectification can be. Massive pain in the butt - hum / buzz / shorts that take out my house circuit breaker that produces a massive power surge that wrecks gear ... etc. The upside is irrelevant compared to the downside for me. So happy to be rid of it.


----------



## Khragon

I want in on some of this hexfred action too.
  
 Glenn, do you have any idea on how to get the socket to make one.  I'm thinking 3D printing, but afraid of heat problem.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> I want in on some of this hexfred action too.
> 
> Glenn, do you have any idea on how to get the socket to make one.  I'm thinking 3D printing, but afraid of heat problem.


 
  
 Just in case there might be any confusion - I am not using plug in hexfred rectifiers, but hexfred brand diodes that have been added to the rectification circuitry in the guts of the amp, rendering the PY500 sockets redundant.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> I want in on some of this hexfred action too.
> 
> Glenn, do you have any idea on how to get the socket to make one.  I'm thinking 3D printing, but afraid of heat problem.


 

 The HEXFREDS make no heat or very little.
 I might be able to cut the bottom off a couple of tubes to make adapters.
 Do like the  slow turn on of the rectifier tubes though.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> The HEXFREDS make no heat or very little.
> *I might be able to cut the bottom off a couple of tubes to make adapters.*
> Do like the  slow turn on of the rectifier tubes though.


 
 Pretty please !!!  with a cherry on top
  
 Tony, I see.. but you still use the power transformer right?


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Pretty please !!!  with a cherry on top
> 
> Tony, I see.. but you still use the power transformer right?


 
  
 Absolutely. No getting away from that AFAIK. Without the tubes it is dead quiet - no more buzz from it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Do like the  slow turn on of the rectifier tubes though.


 
 This was really my only worry about using SS rectification.  Seeing those DC meters jump up so fast makes me wonder what it's doing for the life of the output tubes.  But I mean Cary Audio uses these in their commercial amps right?  The impact can't be anything major if they're putting it out there on products they have to honor warranties for.


----------



## Khragon

I would use it to test only for now, I don't have much issue with the amp.  Enjoying very much everyday.  Sold my Tak though, so missed that, but the SERP are performing admirably.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Do like the  slow turn on of the rectifier tubes though.
> ...


 

 I just like to know the bias voltage is up before the B+ comes on.
 The bias rectifiers are SS though.


----------



## dminches

xcalibur255 said:


> This was really my only worry about using SS rectification.  Seeing those DC meters jump up so fast makes me wonder what it's doing for the life of the output tubes.  But I mean Cary Audio uses these in their commercial amps right?  The impact can't be anything major if they're putting it out there on products they have to honor warranties for.




My guess is that the warranty on tubes is pretty short.


----------



## Khragon

Is there some sort of soft start circuit to ease this? Without degradation to sound quality of course.


----------



## Seamaster

I would like to share some music:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u00M4A25RlY
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itLAlTJt8cs


----------



## gibosi

I wish to reassure those who are somewhat new to the world of Glenn-built amps:
  
 In my experience, vacuum-tube rectifiers in the Glenn OTL do not contribute a discernible amount of buzz and/or hum. And I have come to this conclusion after rolling around 30 different rectifiers, including a plug-in HEXFRED rectifier as well.
  
 Below, a Cossor 53KU, two GEC 6AS7G and a pair of "fully-clothed" Siemens C3g. 
  
 Exquisite!


----------



## MIKELAP

seamaster said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I prefer that my C3g remain fully clothed.
> ...


 
 I used a file makes for a cleaner job  just mark cap before removing so it goes in the same pin holes after cap is cut and removed


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> I wish to reassure those who are somewhat new to the world of Glenn-built amps:
> 
> In my experience, vacuum-tube rectifiers in the Glenn OTL do not contribute a discernible amount of buzz and/or hum. And I have come to this conclusion after rolling around 30 different rectifiers, including a plug-in HEXFRED rectifier as well.
> 
> ...




Help me choose between having C3G or 6 slot for 6bl7/6bx7


----------



## Seamaster

mikelap said:


> I used a file makes for a cleaner job  just mark cap before removing so it goes in the same pin holes after cap is cut and removed


 

 Thank you very much.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Help me choose between having C3G or 6 slot for 6bl7/6bx7


 
  
 I am not sure the decision is really between a pair of C3g or six output tube sockets. I believe that Glenn has built an OTL with a pair of C3g plus six output tube sockets. So the decision is more likely between the C3g or the 6SN7. And there may well be enough real estate for both. So maybe no decision is necessary. Get both. 
  
 But if there is not room for both the 6SN7 and a pair of C3g, and you have to choose, I would say that decision mostly comes down to how one feels about tube rolling. A pair of C3g simplifies things immensely. Apparently, only Lorenz and Siemens manufactured this tube. So the C3g gives you great sound with minimal tube rolling, simple and relatively inexpensive. Whereas, a 6SN7 socket allows one to roll an enormous number of drivers. Again, great sound, but more complexity and it can be considerably more costly.
  
 So I would say get both the C3g and the 6SN7 if you can. Otherwise, I think it comes down to keeping things simple.... or not.


----------



## TonyNewman

Put about 30 hours on the amp since the SS rectification conversion and already very good things are happening. The initial dryness/harshness post-conversion is fading fast and I am hearing more of the sonic goodness of the Takatsukis. These really are spectacular sounding 300Bs. They do just about everything exceptionally well. Never mind that you have to sell both kidneys and your first born to purchase them - it's worth it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 No hint of the power transformer buzz from the amp or the hum in the signal I was getting previously that made my amp almost unusable.
  
 Question for the forumites - over the past few years I have tried several 300Bs in my WA5 and later my Glenn amp - I keep coming back to the TA300B for the combination of SQ and reliability.
  
 Has anyone found anything better for their Glenn amp?  I have never heard the Elrogs or vintage WE300B, for example.
  
 If you have rolled a few 300Bs please share your thoughts


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> I believe that Glenn has built an OTL with a pair of C3g plus six output tube sockets.




That's my Darna!


----------



## Khragon

Tony

You're not missing anything with the Taks, I have had both Tak and WE300B, and they trade blows with each other, if anything I think the Tak are a bit more transparent. Elrog qould be utmost transparency out of the 3, but I don't like them as much as Tak or WE300B. And Elrog reliability plainly sucks, I don't recommend them at all.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> jekjek said:
> 
> 
> > Help me choose between having C3G or 6 slot for 6bl7/6bx7
> ...


 
 Glenn will be making an amp for my son {and me....lol}
  
 I believe he said he can fit this all on the chassis.
  
 Six 6BL7
 C3g
 6/12/25 SN7
 Will use 5 volt rectifiers and 4 volt if using the right power tubes.
 A larger than normal transformer
 Trying to think if there is anything else we would like to have.
  
 So I am assuming you should be good with all of what you mention.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > jekjek said:
> ...


 
  


whirlwind said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > jekjek said:
> ...


 

 I should send you a EL3N amp to try no tube rolling except for the rectifier but it sure does sound good.
 Especially in single tube mode no driver or coupling cap and plenty of power to drive planner phones.
 And about the same price.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> I should send you a EL3N amp to try no tube rolling except for the rectifier but it sure does sound good.
> Especially in single tube mode no driver or coupling cap and plenty of power to drive planner phones.
> And about the same price.


 

 Glenn, is this EL3N you mention of the same configuration as the one jelt2359 has currently?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > gibosi said:
> ...


 
  
 Well, I guess there are many rectifiers to roll.
  
 Any way this amp could use other tubes similar to EL3N.....EL11..EL 12 or anything similar.....not necessary I know.
  
 I hate those side pins on the EL3N...even though they would not need to come out of the amp often.
  
 I hope you now you are probably going to talk me into this


----------



## jekjek

whirlwind said:


> Glenn will be making an amp for my son {and me....lol}
> 
> I believe he said he can fit this all on the chassis.
> 
> ...


 
 Fantastic
 A new EL3N amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

I still have to build the EL3N amp after I finish the 300B amp for musicman59. It will be my Christmas present for me.
 I haven't built a amp for myself for 10 years. I regretted  selling the EL3N amp to Jelt2359 after I sold it originally planed on keeping it.
 With the output transformers it easily drives low impedance phones and able to use single stage is a plus


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > whirlwind said:
> ...


 

 It can also use EL3 tubes and they are on sale for cheep.


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > I wish to reassure those who are somewhat new to the world of Glenn-built amps:
> ...


 

 If using C3g drivers it is better to use 6BX7 drivers it can have high gain with 6BL7 outputs.
 The 6BX7 have lower gain and really sound similar to the 6BL7s


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> If using C3g drivers it is better to use 6BX7 drivers it can have high gain with 6BL7 outputs.
> The 6BX7 have lower gain and really sound similar to the 6BL7s


 
 So I can have 3 add on to my amp?
 - voltage hack
 - 6 x 6bx7 
 - C3G 
  
 All in the same property?


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> If using C3g drivers it is better to use 6BX7 drivers it can have high gain with 6BL7 outputs.
> The 6BX7 have lower gain and really sound similar to the 6BL7s




I actually prefer the 6BX7's to the 6BL7's a little bit.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > If using C3g drivers it is better to use 6BX7 drivers it can have high gain with 6BL7 outputs.
> ...


 
 Me too.


----------



## 2359glenn

Of course you will still be able to use 6AS7s and all there equivalents.


----------



## Seamaster

khragon said:


> Tony
> 
> You're not missing anything with the Taks, I have had both Tak and WE300B, and they trade blows with each other, if anything I think the Tak are a bit more transparent. Elrog qould be utmost transparency out of the 3, but I don't like them as much as Tak or WE300B. And Elrog reliability plainly sucks, I don't recommend them at all.


 

 Surprise about their reliability, they are made in Germany, I guess that does not automatically mean anything anymore.


----------



## Khragon

The short 6 months warranty said it all.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> The short 6 months warranty said it all.


 
  
 I am used to a 12 month warranty as a minimum for a premium tube. 6 months is short - suspiciously so. If the manufacturer won't stand behind their tubes for at least 12 months then I won't buy them. Easy decision to make. EML offer 12 months / 2000 hours (whichever comes first) or 18 months / 2500 hours with online registration.
  
 And why take the risk when the Taks are a proven 300B for both reliability and SQ?
  
 Price difference is not insignificant based on a quick supplier search (ER300B $1,150 USD | TA300B $1,800-$1,900 USD). However, the TA300B is something you can have confidence in buying. It is going to sound great and be robust.


----------



## dminches

khragon said:


> Tony
> 
> And Elrog reliability plainly sucks.


 
  
 I don't believe that is true anymore now that Thomas Mayer bought the company.  I know a lot of people who have bought this in the past several months without any issues.


----------



## TonyNewman

dminches said:


> I don't believe that is true anymore now that Thomas Mayer bought the company.  I know a lot of people who have bought this in the past several months without any issues.


 
  
 I would like to see Elrog stand behind their product with a full 12 month warranty rather than this:
  
_The warranty period is 6 months for emissions and 1 year for mechanical construction and materials._
  
 Why not 12 months for emissions? If the tube fails, without any sign of construction/material failure in the first 7 to 12 months of use, then you are SOL. No warranty - suck it up. That's a gamble I don't want to take. YMMV.
  
 EDIT - just found this from Thomas Mayer (new Elrog big cheese) on a chat forum regarding Elrogs:
  
*To show the confidence in the new tubes we extended the warranty from the previous 6 month to 1 year. Warranty will be handled graciously and we will not be fussy about tubes which fail shortly after the warranty expired.*
  
 So that is a big step forward for Elrog and puts them back on my "maybe one day" list.
  
LINK
  
 EDIT2 - the pertinent post from Thomas Mayer deserves to be quoted in full, I think. Please bear with me. This is very relevant to anyone contemplating ER300B tubes for their Glenn amp:
  
*Hi All,*
  
*my name is Thomas Mayer and I am the founder and owner of Deutsche Elektronenröhren Manufaktur GmbH, which produces the Elrog tubes now. I’d like to share some more insight into the situation. Before I bought the machines of Elrog and started to produce tubes I was a distributor of Elrog tubes and I used them in amps I sell. I went through the same pain as other distributors with the failure of the 300Bs during the first year. Like George Lenz I made sure that each customer who experienced failed tubes either got replacements or his money back.*
  
*The company is under my sole management and I handle all customer interaction. You can rest assured that we will honour all warranty claims. In fact we are giving warranty on tubes produced by the old company as long as they are still in their original warranty period. Also be sure that if similar problems pop up again, there will be no denial.*
  
*I fully understand the reservations some of you have against Elrgo tubes after all you went through. It will take time until the reputation will return and I understand that people want to see others use the tubes for some significant time without reports of problems. We are prepared to go through this period. In fact the sales of the newly produced tubes has been quite good and we had trouble to keep up with the demand.*
  
*About the issues of the tubes. As has been reported, the tubes underwent numerous changes during last year. The most significant one was introduced in January this year, which involved a strengthening of the filaments. 95% of the failures were breaking of one or several of the filament segments. The filaments were very sensitive to overheating and especially inrush current at amplifier turn on.*
  
*The filament had been strengthened in January which was well before I bought the assets of the company. I am happy to report that I did not receive a single returned 300B tube which has that change. Also since the tubes are produced under the new company we did not experience a single 300b fault. In the new company we introduced several more changes, like different bases, better, more uniformly shaped glass and improved vacuum. Also much more improved quality control. Although the failure rate of the 300B is 0 so far of course it is unrealistic to expect absolutely 0 returns. A technical device can fail and at some point we will also see some failed 300b. But the experience so far indicates that the percentage will be very low and of course every fail will be handled under warranty. We continue the policy that every customer who experiences a fail has the choice of getting new tubes (with new warranty) or money back.*
  
*To show the confidence in the new tubes we extended the warranty from the previous 6 month to 1 year. Warranty will be handled graciously and we will not be fussy about tubes which fail shortly after the warranty expired.*
  
*Some more info about the problems of the 2015 tubes: There had been amps in which the failure rate was 100% and amps in which the failure rate even of the early tubes was negligible. For example I have customers who use amps built by me and are still running Elrog 300bs produced in March 2015. The amp with the highest failure rate was the Frankenstein. Before releasing the tubes for the Frank I asked a beta tester to use the tubes in his Frank. This test has been going on for almost 6 month now and the tubes are going strong. Of course a longer time is needed to have statistical relevant data. But we are willing to supply tubes for Franks again and would be thankful for early customers to provide feedback. We are also supplying Lampizator DACs with tubes and they are running fine. No problems whatsoever reported from Lampizator users so far. We do have a list of certain amps which we do not recommend to use with Elrog tubes, but these are known to eat other 300B brands as well. When inquiring for Elrog tubes mentioned your amp and we will tell you if it is on the black list. This black list is very very short and wr do not want to mention the manufacturer publicly.*
  
*I was in close contact with George Lenz before I started the new company and he was the first distributor on bard after restart of production. George continues to be the exclusive distributor for Elrog tubes in the US and Canada. I am happy to have such an experienced and customer oriented in George to take care of this area.*
  
*I hope this gives some more insight. Don’t hesitate to email me or George if you have further questions*
  
*Best regards*
  
*Thomas*
  
 This is jolly good stuff from Mr Mayer. If the new Elrog company can walk this talk, then I will seriously consider some ER300Bs.


----------



## Seamaster

tonynewman said:


> I would like to see Elrog stand behind their product with a full 12 month warranty rather than this:
> 
> _The warranty period is 6 months for emissions and 1 year for mechanical construction and materials._
> 
> Why not 12 months for emissions? If the tube fails, without any sign of construction/material failure in the first 7 to 12 months of use, then you are SOL. No warranty - suck it up. That's a gamble I don't want to take. YMMV.



I agree, that sounds like the company does not have confidence on their own products


----------



## 2359glenn

I made the 300B amps with a perfect 5.0 volts on the filament. I done this to use Elrog tubes maybe I should have
 set it at 4.5. This is easily done with two 20 turn pots under the chassis.
 But other tubes run fine at the recommended 5.0 volts and why run them with a starved filament.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> I made the 300B amps with a perfect 5.0 volts on the filament. I done this to use Elrog tubes maybe I should have
> set it at 4.5. This is easily done with two 20 turn pots under the chassis.
> But other tubes run fine at the recommended 5.0 volts and why run them with a starved filament.


 
  
 From what Thomas Mayer is saying in the above post, the fragile filament issue in the ER300B has been addressed.
  
 My remaining concern is that now I have 100% SS rectification the bias current spikes briefly on start up (beyond the meter 100mA, but less than the fuse 200mA). That might be an issue for the Elrogs - not sure.


----------



## Khragon

When I talked to Thomas regarding getting replacement for my failed Elrog, he turned me down because I'm out of the warranty period.  The unfortunate thing for me is I didn't use the tube for more than 10 months since I don't have any amp to use it on.  This was the set I got that is supposed to be better, granted I don't think they're the same as his latest iteration.  Thomas did offer me a good discount on the his new iteration, but I was at such distaste I didn't want to spend any more money on Elrog, I was expecting a replacement as a support for early adopters like myself.  Another consideration is when I asked him regarding the life expectancy of the new Elrog, he mentioned 2000-4000 hours (quote below), which I thought was very low.
  


> Typically output tubes last 3000hrs of operation. Depending on the op points and usage pattern this can vary from 2000 to 4000. If the tubes get pushed hard and beyond allowed limits (often the case in many amps) life can be reduced


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> When I talked to Thomas regarding getting replacement for my failed Elrog, he turned me down because I'm out of the warranty period.  The unfortunate thing for me is I didn't use the tube for more than 10 months since I don't have any amp to use it on.  This was the set I got that is supposed to be better, granted I don't think they're the same as his latest iteration.  Thomas did offer me a good discount on the his new iteration, but I was at such distaste I didn't want to spend any more money on Elrog, I was expecting a replacement as a support for early adopters like myself.  Another consideration is when I asked him regarding the life expectancy of the new Elrog, he mentioned 2000-4000 hours (quote below), which I thought was very low.


 
  
 That's kinda low. The Taks are similar to the WE300B - they last a long time. 10,000+ hours is what folks speak of. Never owned a pair that long myself, so can't say.
  
 Even 3000 hours would not be all that bad for me. I would use my tube amp maybe 10 hours per week, 500 hours per year. 3000 hours = 6 years. That's OK for me. What I don't want is a repeat of the TJ CNE 300B debacle with multiple tube failures in the first 100 hours. That blows.


----------



## Khragon

3000 hours is not too good for me, I use my tube amp for about 5 hours a day, so average about 35 hours a week.  When I turn on the amp, even if I don't listen I don't want to turn it off only to turn it on again, so I tend to just leave it on to reduce stress due to thermal cycling.   At average of 3000 hours, that's less than 2 years for me, a bit too short.


----------



## TonyNewman

Order placed via TubesUSA. Once I get the ER300Bs next week I will share the impressions (vs TA300B) and any reliability issues. Should be interesting.
  
 I really do hope this is a new chapter for the ER300B. Having another viable choice for new production TOTL 300B can only be a good thing.


----------



## Khragon

Very nice Tony, looking forward to your impressions.  One thing is for sure, I missed the glow


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Very nice Tony, looking forward to your impressions.  One thing is for sure, I missed the glow


 
  
 A few folks have mentioned the sexy glow and the wonderful SQ of the thoriated tungsten. I have been wanting to try it myself for ages, but all the bad news about reliability and warranty support put me off. Will see how this plays out.


----------



## Khragon

Found a good read:
 http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/MostVacuumTubes.pdf
  
 Haven't gone through it yet, but the book mentioned emission lost is the least of our worries as far as tube failures are concern.


----------



## 2359glenn

I don't understand I use #10 globe drivers for my 300B amps they are thorated tungsten made in the 1920s. And they have been in the amps for 10 years
 on at least 5hrs a day. How is it it can't  be done right now. These tubes show no drop in emission after all this use they outlasted many 300Bs


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> I don't understand I use #10 globe drivers for my 300B amps they are thorated tungsten made in the 1920s. And they have been in the amps for 10 years
> on at least 5hrs a day. How is it it can't  be done right now. These tubes show no drop in emission after all this use they outlasted many 300Bs


 
  
 Very good question. I think Takatsuki has demonstrated that reliable and great sounding tubes every bit as good (or better) than the best vintage tubes can be made today - it just isn't easy, or cheap.
  
 I might be crazy, but I like what Elrog are now saying about the improved quality. At least enough to take a $1200 USD chance. With solid warranty support for 12 months the risk is somewhat mitigated.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand I use #10 globe drivers for my 300B amps they are thorated tungsten made in the 1920s. And they have been in the amps for 10 years
> ...


 

 Tony
 The only concern with you getting thorated tungsten 300Bs is they heat up instantly allot faster then oxcide coted
 filament. Going with all SS rectification the B+ is going to be up faster then the bias voltage. This is going to
 cause even more of a surge of current on turn on.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Tony
> The only concern with you getting thorated tungsten 300Bs is they heat up instantly allot faster then oxcide coted
> filament. Going with all SS rectification the B+ is going to be up faster then the bias voltage. This is going to
> cause even more of a surge of current on turn on.


 

  Yep - I am seeing how the bias current surges on start up with the Taks. I explained my situation with the vendor (who works closely with the manufacturer) and they have sold me the tubes with the 12 month warranty, so will see what happens.
  
 Part of the upgrades to the ER300B is an improved (thicker) filament. Hopefully that is enough.


----------



## Khragon

Glenn,
  
 Can the problem be mitigated by turning down the current bias pot and turn it back up a short time later?


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Glenn,
> 
> Can the problem be mitigated by turning down the current bias pot and turn it back up a short time later?


 
  
 +1. Would definitely like to know.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Glenn,
> 
> Can the problem be mitigated by turning down the current bias pot and turn it back up a short time later?


 

 It might turn it all the way down so the bias voltage will be enough even though it isn't all the way up vet.
 I normally do things for a reason like using slow turn on rectifiers. TV damper diodes are slower worm up
 due to extra insulation between heater to cathode so the heater to cathode voltage can be up to 6000 volts
 in a TV.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn,
> ...


 

 Try it with the TAks in see if you don't get a serge in cathode current.
 When trying leave the amp off for awhile so all the capacitors are completely discharged.


----------



## TonyNewman

Seems to help quite a bit. I wound the bias back to zero, turned the amp off, waiting 20 minutes, then powered it back up.
 The bias needle shot back, but barely touched the 100mA limit on the meter. Before it was pressed up against the limit for at least a second or two.
 So it helps quite a bit. A minor inconvenience in my amp shut down / start up procedure - on each shut down I will wind down the bias before powering off.
 On power up I will adjust the bias again - really not that big of a deal. Particularly if it extends the life of my 300Bs.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> Seems to help quite a bit. I wound the bias back to zero, turned the amp off, waiting 20 minutes, then powered it back up.
> The bias needle shot back, but barely touched the 100mA limit on the meter. Before it was pressed up against the limit for at least a second or two.
> So it helps quite a bit. A *minor inconvenience* in my amp shut down / start up procedure - on each shut down I will wind down the bias before powering off.
> On power up I will adjust the bias again - really not that big of a deal. Particularly if it extends the life of my 300Bs.


 
 We audiophiles do more extreme ritual to protect our gears, this is definitely minor.  Another great use of the adjustable bias feature, way to go Glenn


----------



## dminches

This glow?


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> We audiophiles do more extreme ritual to protect our gears, this is definitely minor.  Another great use of the adjustable bias feature, way to go Glenn


 
  
 I would sacrifice a multitude of cute furry animals if it extended my 300B life 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The manual bias is very handy indeed.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > Seems to help quite a bit. I wound the bias back to zero, turned the amp off, waiting 20 minutes, then powered it back up.
> ...


 

 Yea but I still designed the amp for slow B+ turn on.
 Might have to do something different in the future if everyone wants SS rectifiers a resistor with a bypass relay on a timer.


----------



## TonyNewman

dminches said:


> This glow?


 
  
 Now THAT'S a glow


----------



## 2359glenn

I should take a picture of my old 572-3 amp with thorated tungsten filaments and the graphite plate glowing red.
 That used 42EC4/PY500 rectifiers for the 1200 volt B+


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I should take a picture of my old 572-3 amp with thorated tungsten filaments and the graphite plate glowing red.
> That used 42EC4/PY500 rectifiers for the 1200 volt B+


 
 I for one, would like to see this, Glenn.
  
 I have a question concerning the EL3N amp Glenn.
  
 That could be made with EL12 sockets and if one wanted to use EL3N get an adapter for that, correct.
  
 Does the EL12 have twice the power of EL3N ?


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I should take a picture of my old 572-3 amp with thorated tungsten filaments and the graphite plate glowing red.
> ...


 

 No it will not be twice the power the transformer is not optimum and the bias resistor will be to high
 I think it would be better to have a octal socket set up for a 6K6 and get adapters from the more normal
 octal socket. That will be easier to find then one from the crazy EL12 socket.
  
 Don't know the SQ of these tubes when the EL3N it is up there with the 45 and AZ4.
 I built this amp for SQ not for tube rolling as it was origanially for me and I am not a tube roller.
 I know that I make ultimate tube rolling amps but not my thing I make them for sale.
 In a OTL like the Elise with cathode follower output you can stick almost anything in there and it will
 make sound. That is not the case with output transformer amp the impedance of the transformer has to
 match the tube for proper sound.
 I can make a amp specifically for the AZ12 but who knows how it sounds.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > 2359glenn said:
> ...


 
 Understood....thanks for the explanation Glenn.


----------



## gibosi

And on the subject of failing vacuum tubes, I had a rectifier fail last night, a Philips AZ4. As it has a bottom getter, the top is clear and the electrical sparking was pretty dramatic. Fortunately, the amp's fuse did its job, so no harm done. And as these go for around $30, it is cheap and easy to replace. 
  
 Picture taken a couple months ago.. working fine then....


----------



## whirlwind

Glad there was no damage to the amp, Ken.


----------



## gibosi

Yea, Glenn warned me to have a bunch of extra fuses on hand if I was going to roll rectifiers. That said, this is only the second one I've had to fail gloriously enough to blow a fuse. lol


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> Glad there was no damage to the amp, Ken.


 
  
 +1. I have had very bad things happen on rectifier failure - it's not fun.
  
 I did some more experimenting with the manual bias and power up of the amp with SS rectification. This time I screwed the bias all the way down - only an extra half turn or so from zero mA - but that made quite a difference on start up current draw across the 300B. Bias meters now top out at around 90/95 mA for less than half a second. The entire swing of the needle is less than a second. Peak touches 90/95 mA and quickly drops away - blink and you would miss it.
  
 This makes me a lot more comfortable about using tubes that might not be quite as robust as the Taks in the amp.
  
 Resetting the bias is quick and easy. I leave a screwdriver in front of the power button to remind me to fully zero the bias at every power down. I will be using this extra step on all my 300Bs - given the cost of the things it is worth doing, I think.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Yea, Glenn warned me to have a bunch of extra fuses on hand if I was going to roll rectifiers. That said, this is only the second one I've had to fail gloriously enough to blow a fuse. lol


 
  
 I have never had to replace a fuse in my amp...where is it located ?


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Yea, Glenn warned me to have a bunch of extra fuses on hand if I was going to roll rectifiers. That said, this is only the second one I've had to fail gloriously enough to blow a fuse. lol
> ...


 

 There is a little draw on the bottom of the IEC connector that slides out and the fuse is in there.


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks  Glenn , I have never noticed that.


----------



## gibosi

A picture is worth a thousand words


----------



## 3083joe

Man been a while, need to get myself that EL3N amp @2359glenn
 Need that sound quality.


----------



## leftside

Welcome back mate


----------



## TonyNewman

Got a technical question for Glenn (or anyone else with something to offer) - checking the operating curve for the 'new' ER300B - shown below.
  

  
 Assuming I am reading the operating curves correctly, for 400V (my amp) the maximum operating point for the ER300B is 70 mA.
  
 With solid state rectification and the bias wound down to the lowest setting, I expect the current will hit 90/95 mA for brief moment as the capacitors charge up. At least that is what happens now on the TA300B. This is a very brief moment above 70 mA - maybe 1/4 of a second. The needle flicks up to 90/95 and then drops back down rapidly.
  
 My question - is this something worth worrying about? I would expect that exceeding the operating point by 20/25 mA for a brief moment should be harmless, but wonder if anyone out there was any input on this.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> Got a technical question for Glenn (or anyone else with something to offer) - checking the operating curve for the 'new' ER300B - shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think it will be alright you just have to try and see.
 When I had Khragon's Elrog  300Bs they sure did sound good I never heard the Taks though.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> I think it will be alright you just have to try and see.
> When I had Khragon's Elrog  300Bs they sure did sound good I never heard the Taks though.


 
  
 Thanks Glenn.
  
 I have been dealing with George Lenz of TubesUSA regarding the Elrogs. A lot of work has been done to improve the ER300B reliability, including a much improved filament that previously was very vulnerable to current overloads. Should get them in a few weeks. Will post in this thread on how they go.


----------



## dminches

I have been using my Elrogs in my Lampizator DAC for 2-3 weeks and the only tube that I prefer to them is the Tak 300.


----------



## leftside

dminches said:


> I have been using my Elrogs in my Lampizator DAC for 2-3 weeks and the only tube that I prefer to them is the Tak 300.


 
 What Lampizator DAC do you have? It's not in your signature. I just installed a newly purchased Atlantic this weekend. Love it! Closest DAC in sound quality I've ever heard compared to my turntable set up. Now I just need an upgraded headphone amp @2359glenn


----------



## dminches

leftside said:


> What Lampizator DAC do you have? It's not in your signature. I just installed a newly purchased Atlantic this weekend. Love it! Closest DAC in sound quality I've ever heard compared to my turntable set up. Now I just need an upgraded headphone amp @2359glenn




I have a Big 7 with the clock and R2R upgrades. I use 2 Tak 300Bs and a Tak 274B.


----------



## leftside

dminches said:


> I have a Big 7 with the clock and R2R upgrades. I use 2 Tak 300Bs and a Tak 274B.


 
 Lovely. Do you have a picture somewhere? Atlantic is R2R out of the box. I also went for the superclock upgrades on mine (and balanced + rectifier).


----------



## dminches

http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/14625#post_13175157


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I don't understand I use #10 globe drivers for my 300B amps they are thorated tungsten made in the 1920s. And they have been in the amps for 10 years
> on at least 5hrs a day. How is it it can't  be done right now. These tubes show no drop in emission after all this use they outlasted many 300Bs


 
  
 There are days when I wish we had gone through with the original plan for my amp and used a 10Y driver stage.  I was so worried about the super limited supply for those tubes.  But in all honesty all I ever really had to do was find a single good pair and maybe have something for backup in case of disaster.
  
 I'm still extremely curious what the amp would have sounded like if it had been ALL directly heated triodes with thoriated tungsten filaments in the first stage.  I kind of have always had this feeling that the C3g is maybe too much driver for the 45, especially considering they have the same output power capability.


----------



## Xcalibur255

tonynewman said:


> Thanks Glenn.
> 
> I have been dealing with George Lenz of TubesUSA regarding the Elrogs. A lot of work has been done to improve the ER300B reliability, including a much improved filament that previously was very vulnerable to current overloads. Should get them in a few weeks. Will post in this thread on how they go.


 
  
 If it helps ease your mind a bit Tony, I accidentally blasted my 45 globes with 70mA (a 45 tube is rated for 36mA max, and anything over 40 is considered stupid) for about 10 seconds and they were unfazed by the experience.  I think maybe it's okay for a moment, as long as the tube doesn't see the higher current long enough to cause real heat buildup?


----------



## TonyNewman

xcalibur255 said:


> If it helps ease your mind a bit Tony, I accidentally blasted my 45 globes with 70mA (a 45 tube is rated for 36mA max, and anything over 40 is considered stupid) for about 10 seconds and they were unfazed by the experience.  I think maybe it's okay for a moment, as long as the tube doesn't see the higher current long enough to cause real heat buildup?


 

 Thanks - that's what I'm hoping. The high current is for a fraction of a second, and only about 30% above the rated max. Should be sweet.
  
 I have blasted the Taks several times with something beyond the meter max (100mA) but less than the fuse setting (200mA) for about 2 seconds with no damage at all. This is what happens on power up without screwing down the bias first.
  
 On an aside, and this is impossible to A/B test without 2 otherwise identical amps and tubesets, but my perception is that the Glenn amp is more transparent, detailed and dynamic after the move to 100% SS rectification. Not a huge jump, but noticeable. The bass response is something else. Much more punch and heft and body low down. I am quite certain on this point. The Utopia is kicking like a mule (when called for in the music) from the Glenn 300B amp. Really, really impressed with that.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > If it helps ease your mind a bit Tony, I accidentally blasted my 45 globes with 70mA (a 45 tube is rated for 36mA max, and anything over 40 is considered stupid) for about 10 seconds and they were unfazed by the experience.  I think maybe it's okay for a moment, as long as the tube doesn't see the higher current long enough to cause real heat buildup?
> ...


 

 But you lost that nice slow start by removing the rectifier tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand I use #10 globe drivers for my 300B amps they are thorated tungsten made in the 1920s. And they have been in the amps for 10 years
> ...


 

 The #10 also has the same output capability but nice sounding tubes.  My 300B amps use #10 globe drivers and they have been in the amps
 for 10 years on every day at least 5 hrs. Still test the same as when I first put them in there.  Those thorated tungsten tubes last for ever don't know the problem with new production.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> But you lost that nice slow start by removing the rectifier tubes.


 
  
 Absolutely true. I also lost the glow, and the RCA PY500s have a very sexy glow.
  
 But I gained SQ, lost the awful hum and buzz (in the signal and from the power transformer) which made the amp unusable for me, and removed the possibility of a shorted PY500 tripping my house circuit breaker (again) and sending a massive surge through my gear (PC and Audio).
  
 I'll take that trade anytime. Adjusting the bias at every power up and power down is a small price to pay for me - YMMV.
  
 I would do it again in a heartbeat.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > But you lost that nice slow start by removing the rectifier tubes.
> ...


 

 The RCA 42EC4s never gave a problem shorting out.
 I had one totally blow up inside tripping the house circuit breaker but it was rectifying 1200 volts and it was a Tungsram.  Always used RCA or Sylvania
 made in USA since and never had a problem again.


----------



## dminches

How should I bias the Elrog 300Bs?  How many mA?


----------



## TonyNewman

dminches said:


> How should I bias the Elrog 300Bs?  How many mA?


 
  
 I'll throw in on this one. Assuming your 300B amp has a 400V setup - same as mine - then the maximum operating point is 70 mA.
  
 Note this operating curve is for the new production ER300Bs.
  
 I plan to run at 40 mA initially, then creep up to 50 mA and see how that impacts SQ. If it sounds good at 50 mA then that is where I will run them.
  
 I am currently running my Taks at 60 mA. Tried them at 70 mA, but the SQ didn't change, so why risk shortening tube life?
  
 The Taks are rated for 100+ mA (I think, I don't read Japanese so the supplied documentation is not 100% clear to me). I think 60 mA is quite gentle on them.
  
 EDIT - changed the mA numbers. Typo.


----------



## dminches

Thanks TN.
  
 Glenn?


----------



## dminches




----------



## aqsw

Just wondering when and if the El3N amp will be available?


----------



## Seamaster

She is really good:
  
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=223If3fZNEE


----------



## Seamaster

I will take her as well:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH3OOM70cp0


----------



## 2359glenn

aqsw said:


> Just wondering when and if the El3N amp will be available?


 

 About a month I should have one ready.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think what really seals the deal on the HEXFRED business is that they do objectively sound better along with offering better noise and reliability.  It's not an "all tube" amp anymore but I'm okay with it.  There are moments when I feel like I hear a hint of dryness that wouldn't be there with tube rectifiers, but honestly my amp kind of has that character anyway and always did.  The better resolution and bass control sits on the other end of that weigh scale as well.
  
 I really think we're at the point where these could be built into the amps internally and just forgo the rectifier tube sockets.  Unless of course losing the soft-start has long term consequences that none of us is aware of yet.


----------



## jelt2359

With the gel3n I'm starting to move to the 3dg4 as my favourite. Just a more natural sound than the hexfred. I believe this was Glenn's favourite as well, and I can see why!


----------



## 2359glenn

jelt2359 said:


> With the gel3n I'm starting to move to the 3dg4 as my favourite. Just a more natural sound than the hexfred. I believe this was Glenn's favourite as well, and I can see why!


 

 Sound great and you can get them for  $3


----------



## dminches

Glenn, is my Selah like Tony's amp? Just trying to figure out how to bias the Elrog 300Bs.


----------



## musicman59

It's getting there!! I can't wait!


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Glenn, is my Selah like Tony's amp? Just trying to figure out how to bias the Elrog 300Bs.


 

 Yes it is really the same amp


----------



## whirlwind

musicman59 said:


> It's getting there!! I can't wait!


 
 That looks wonderful...can only imagine how it will sound...you must be very excited.


----------



## Khragon

musicman59 said:


> It's getting there!! I can't wait!


 
 Pre-welcome to the club!


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> It's getting there!! I can't wait!


 
  
 Round meters. Nice. Love that look.


----------



## musicman59

Thanks guys!
I have been part of Glenn's fan club with his adapters for years but I will finally be a 100% member with an amp!


----------



## 3083joe

musicman59 said:


> Thanks guys!
> I have been part of Glenn's fan club with his adapters for years but I will finally be a 100% member with an amp!


 

 Im Hoping to be next!!!


----------



## 3083joe

leftside said:


> Welcome back mate


 

 I know, got to get back on here more ofter, how you been?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Hey Glenn, I need your help on something.  Emission Labs just released something interesting:
  
 http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML45B.htm
  
 It looks like you have to run higher plate voltages in order to really use this at it's full potential, but how do you think this would sound in my amp at the existing 275V if I just ran the tube at higher bias?  Say like something in the 40-45mA range?  Do you think this would sound good, or more importantly better than a normal 45?  I don't understand operating points and curves well enough to tell just from reading their data sheets.
  
 Thanks for your input!


----------



## leftside

3083joe said:


> I know, got to get back on here more ofter, how you been?


 
 All good here. Tube rolling has slowed down significantly (currently using 4 6BX7's, 2 B65's and a Cossor 53KU in the Woo). Still upgrading equipment though... have a place in line for the Glenn amp . Latest DAC competes with my vinyl set up.


----------



## 3083joe

leftside said:


> All good here. Tube rolling has slowed down significantly (currently using 4 6BX7's, 2 B65's and a Cossor 53KU in the Woo). Still upgrading equipment though... have a place in line for the Glenn amp . Latest DAC competes with my vinyl set up.



Yes tube rolling can be a tiresome game. We worry so much about the tubes that we never get to enjoy the music. A lot of the reason I went solid-state. I am in line for a Glen amp and look forward to adding it to the rest of my equipment. I I am trying to upgrade my cartridge to the clear audio da Vinci which is a beast. And hoping within the next year to get me a two channel set up. The good thing about the V281 is I can use it as a preamp with my Jeff Rowland amp.


----------



## Khragon

Yup, exactly why I went with Glenn 300B, so I don't have to worry about rectifiers and drivers, as they are already optimal and affordable.  Just have to roll the 300Bs, which I like because there are healthy new production tube available.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Hey Glenn, I need your help on something.  Emission Labs just released something interesting:
> 
> http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML45B.htm
> 
> ...


 

 I think it will work fine in your amp at 275 v with the HEXFREDS but I have no idea how this tube sounds.
 Usually EML makes good sounding tubes. And using these will be saving your globe 45s


----------



## Silent One

musicman59 said:


> It's getting there!! I can't wait!





I can't wait for you to throw your array of fine headphones at it!


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I think it will work fine in your amp at 275 v with the HEXFREDS but I have no idea how this tube sounds.
> Usually EML makes good sounding tubes. And using these will be saving your globe 45s


 
  
 Do you think there's an advantage here vs. the normal 45?  If I understand how this works (I'm trying to teach myself how to read these curves), the grid bias for the amp is -50 and the plate voltage is 275 and these are both fixed.  So the curve represents the bias current that results in the most linear operation right?  That would mean 36mA is correct for these values and anything else is sub optimal.  If this is true then there's no advantage to this super beefed up 45 tube because turning the bias up won't sound any better.
  
 Am I on the right track with my understanding, or totally off course here?    If this is right it means I might as well get the normal version of the tube because there's no difference in performance without being able to push the plate voltage up higher.  The old version of the tube does have a gold grid which is supposed to have better bias stability, which is good for manual bias amps like mine.  So if I can't squeeze better sound of out this 45B I think maybe I'm better off just buying the original version of the tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I think it will work fine in your amp at 275 v with the HEXFREDS but I have no idea how this tube sounds.
> ...


 

 You probably are better off buying the normal version.  It looks like to get the best out of the 45B the amp has to be made for it
 with 400 volts B+


----------



## Xcalibur255

Sounds good.  Is -50V what my amp is running for the grid?  I read somewhere that's what 45 amps usually run, but better to know for a fact than guess right?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> Sounds good.  Is -50V what my amp is running for the grid?  I read somewhere that's what 45 amps usually run, but better to know for a fact than guess right?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 Your amp with maximum bias (The pot turned all the way down) is about -55 to -60 volts maximum.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Your amp with maximum bias (The pot turned all the way down) is about -55 to -60 volts maximum.


 
  
 Evidently I don't understand how this works then.  The way I was reading the curve that means the ideal current on the plates would be 12mA which can't be right.  There just isn't any good info out there to learn about this.


----------



## 2359glenn

I think I confused you when I said max bias I meant max negative voltage. When the bias pot is turned down the negative bias voltage goes up
 cutting the tube off or reducing the current through the tube.
 So with 275 volts on the plate and -55 volts on the grid plate current should be 35 to 36 ma. this will vary tube to tube but you can set it
 were it sounds best. And you can have the plate current adjusted the same even if the tubes are not matched.


----------



## TonyNewman

Dropped my 300B amp off at my local tube guy this afternoon. Looking to make the following changes:
  

Dip the power transformer in polyurethane (the buzz/hum is back - not in the signal, but from the physical transformer)
Fit the round dial old school meters (subject to room to install them).
Disconnect the PY500s completely so I can put 'dummy' tubes in there (looks a bit naff to have the empty sockets).
3 way toggle power switch. This is something many tube guitar amps with SS rectification have, apparently.
Off
Warm up / stand by
Full power

  
 This gets nicely around the issue of the tubes getting hit with a massive current draw as the capacitors charge up and the heaters fire up.
  
 Should get it back in a few weeks. Will post some pics and impressions then.
  
 I am fortunate indeed to have a skilled tube gear technician in my home city. A customized, custom tube head amp. Why not?


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> Dropped my 300B amp off at my local tube guy this afternoon. Looking to make the following changes:
> 
> 
> Dip the power transformer in polyurethane (the buzz/hum is back - not in the signal, but from the physical transformer)
> ...


 

 Just put the PY500s back in and just have the filaments light up.
 That is going to be a expensive mod.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Just put the PY500s back in and just have the filaments light up.
> That is going to be a expensive mod.


 
  
 My tube guy says that is a bad idea with the existing setup. The SS rectifier bridge and the PY500s would be operating in parallel. I would rather not do that. I will get the PY500s completely disconnected and put dummy tubes in there.
  
 Not so much on the expensive side. The parts are minimal and my tube technician is semi-retired and charges $40 NZD per hour for labour. The change to SS rectification, for example, cost me under $50 NZD (1 hour labour + parts). So hardly pricey.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Just put the PY500s back in and just have the filaments light up.
> ...


 

 Just have to disconnect the black wire that hooks to the PY500 cathode caps.


----------



## TonyNewman

My tube guy will do that, as well as disconnect the base as well. Call me paranoid, but I don't want anything happening with the PY500s after what happened to me with the PY500 failure.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> My tube guy will do that, as well as disconnect the base as well. Call me paranoid, but I don't want anything happening with the PY500s after what happened to me with the PY500 failure.


 

 Not much is going to happen with just the filaments hooked up. Just looks nice.


----------



## TonyNewman

My tube guy offered to set that up, but I was being very cautious. Might change my mind on that and just get the heaters wired for the glow. They do look nice.


----------



## Khragon

Interested in if potting the power transformer will help.  I read some where that potting help with noise, both audible in the signal and outside.  Can't see any negative there.  Are you still going to use the Lundahl enclosure?  How do you deal with the existing openings?


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Interested in if potting the power transformer will help.  I read some where that potting help with noise, both audible in the signal and outside.  Can't see any negative there.  Are you still going to use the Lundahl enclosure?  How do you deal with the existing openings?


 
  
 I have no idea - I trust my tube guy and the fellow that does the dipping to sort that out.
  
 Since the rectification is now SS, the two openings for the PY500s will be disconnected anyway (but not removed).


----------



## Khragon

Should still be able to use the existing Lundahl enclosure, I guess just need to temporarily seal off the slits until the pot material cured, mainly for cosmetic reason, since your other two OT enclosures are also Lundahl.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I think I confused you when I said max bias I meant max negative voltage. When the bias pot is turned down the negative bias voltage goes up
> cutting the tube off or reducing the current through the tube.
> So with 275 volts on the plate and -55 volts on the grid plate current should be 35 to 36 ma. this will vary tube to tube but you can set it
> were it sounds best. And you can have the plate current adjusted the same even if the tubes are not matched.


 
  
 Okay, thanks Glenn.  What I'm trying to teach myself is how to read and use those tube curve graphs.  Each of the curves is for a different negative grid voltage right?  And where the line intersects for the plate voltage and current is the ideal operating point?  But what I don't understand is how do you know which curve you're supposed to be checking?  It sounds like the -50 curve is the most applicable to my amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I think I confused you when I said max bias I meant max negative voltage. When the bias pot is turned down the negative bias voltage goes up
> ...


 

 When designing a amp you want to be running the tube in the linear portion of the curve not were it bends. If you look the 45 is very linear and will sound good
 at many plate voltages as long as the output impedance is correct that would be the output transformer used.


----------



## whirlwind

tonynewman said:


> My tube guy offered to set that up, but I was being very cautious. Might change my mind on that and just get the heaters wired for the glow. They do look nice.


 
  
 Yeah the glow of the PY500 tubes is wonderful.
  
 Glad my amp uses them, they make me feel warm and cozy


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Yeah the glow of the PY500 tubes is wonderful.
> 
> Glad my amp uses them, they make me feel warm and cozy


 
  
 Well, since I can't run PY500's I just have to get by with these old mesh-plate rectifiers
  

  
 to help me feel warm and cozy when it is cold and snowy outside.


----------



## whirlwind

^ Beautiful  Ken ^
  
 I want one of these for the next amp.....how is the sound ?


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> Yeah the glow of the PY500 tubes is wonderful.
> 
> Glad my amp uses them, they make me feel warm and cozy


 
  
 Yep - have changed my mind and asked my tube guy to leave the PY500 heaters connected. The RCA fat tube PY500s have a lovely orange glow.


----------



## Khragon

Good decision, if in the future you don't want the rectifiers to have anything to do with the amp, just clip the heater leads on the tubes. Problem solved.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > My tube guy offered to set that up, but I was being very cautious. Might change my mind on that and just get the heaters wired for the glow. They do look nice.
> ...


 

 If you get the EL3N amp you can use all those neat rectifiers Ken uses nice mesh plates also a mesh globe 80 if you can find one.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> If you get the EL3N amp you can use all those neat rectifiers Ken uses nice mesh plates also a mesh globe 80 if you can find one.




Ahh..was under the impression the EL3N amp is for those who dislike the hassle of tube rolling


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > If you get the EL3N amp you can use all those neat rectifiers Ken uses nice mesh plates also a mesh globe 80 if you can find one.
> ...


 
 Can't roll the amplifier tubes but the rectifier can be rolled 3DG4 , 5U4 and all 5 volt rectifiers.
 The first one had a AZ4 and couldn't be rolled but I changed it.


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Ahh..was under the impression the EL3N amp is for those who dislike the hassle of tube rolling


 
  
 If you find tube rolling a hassle, you don't have to roll tubes in any of Glenn's amps. The tubes he provides provide great sound. 
  


whirlwind said:


> ^ Beautiful  Ken ^
> 
> I want one of these for the next amp.....how is the sound ?


 
  
 I am still trying to get my head around the sound of these 4V rectifiers, but very generally, my impression is that rectifiers manufactured in Germany and Eastern Europe tend to have a tonality somewhere in between the Cossor 53KU and the GEC U52. That is, the bass has a bit more fullness and body than the GEC and the treble has a bit more presence and air than the Cossor. With the right driver and output tubes, they are quite nice IMHO.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Can't roll the amplifier tubes but the rectifier can be rolled 3DG4 , 5U4 and all 5 volt rectifiers.
> The first one had a AZ4 and couldn't be rolled but I changed it.




Ah ok I understand now. Was thinking of the nice mesh plate rectifiers Ken was showing off which gives a nice glow to warm the heart  Can jelt2359's el3n amp roll rectifiers ?




gibosi said:


> If you find tube rolling a hassle, you don't have to roll tubes in any of Glenn's amps. The tubes he provides provide great sound.




Indeed  I may pm u to learn more about the interesting rectifiers you purchased which hopefully can be plugged and played with the EL3N amp.


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Ah ok I understand now. Was thinking of the nice mesh plate rectifiers Ken was showing off which gives a nice glow to warm the heart  Can jelt2359's el3n amp roll rectifiers ?
> Indeed  I may pm u to learn more about the interesting rectifiers you purchased which hopefully can be plugged and played with the EL3N amp.


 
  
 It is my understanding that jelt2359's EL3N was furnished with an octal socket to allow the use of the 3DG4 and 5U4 type rectifiers. And with suitable adapters, he can use all the 4V rectifiers I have rolled.... and even more.


----------



## gibosi

And it just so happens that at this time there is a mesh-plate German rectifier on eBay identical to the one in the picture I just posted. The asking price is about 134 US dollars, with the best offer option. And you will need an adapter which runs about $25. While this is certainly not a bargain, it is at the lower end of the price spectrum for a German mesh-plate rectifier from the 1930's. If anyone is interested, let me know and I will provide the link.


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> It is my understanding that jelt2359's EL3N was furnished with an octal socket to allow the use of the 3DG4 and 5U4 type rectifiers. And with suitable adapters, he can use all the 4V rectifiers I have rolled.... and even more.




Indeed. I've confirmed with jelt2359 as well  Now I need to search for all your posts on the 4V rectifiers you've collected. Can you send the link to that German mesh and adapter? Thanks


----------



## Rossliew

Ken, would you be so kind as to point me in the right direction for some reasonably priced 4V rectifier tubes that I could use in the EL3N amp? Is FW4/500 one of them? Thanks in advance!


----------



## jelt2359

rossliew said:


> Ken, would you be so kind as to point me in the right direction for some reasonably priced 4V rectifier tubes that I could use in the EL3N amp? Is FW4/500 one of them? Thanks in advance!


 
 Congrats on your new amp @Rossliew


----------



## Rossliew

jelt2359 said:


> Congrats on your new amp @Rossliew


 

 Lol! Thanks to some devilish voices cajoling me to get it.... \m/


----------



## lukeap69

jelt2359 said:


> Congrats on your new amp @Rossliew




Was this your EL3N amp Jason?


----------



## jelt2359

lukeap69 said:


> Was this your EL3N amp Jason?




The one and only!!! Although I hear someone else on this thread has secretly also bought one now


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > tonynewman said:
> ...


 
 Thanks Glenn, I thought this may be the case.
  
 I am in the "saving money" mode right now, once I secure enough money for the amp....I will pursue a mesh plate rectifier.


----------



## whirlwind

jelt2359 said:


> lukeap69 said:
> 
> 
> > Was this your EL3N amp Jason?
> ...


 
 Yes, a change of plans has sent us down this road instead of another OTL amp.


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn, if I need replacement EL3N tubes, do the quad require to be matched?


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Glenn, if I need replacement EL3N tubes, do the quad require to be matched?


 
 Do you have the amp yet???
 These tubes last a long time the amp is running them at low current and they don't have to be matched


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Do you have the amp yet???
> These tubes last a long time the amp is running them at low current and they don't have to be matched


 

 Should be getting the amp in a couple of weeks. Good to hear they last long and need not be matched


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn, am I correct that these are 10,000 hour tubes ?


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Glenn, am I correct that these are 10,000 hour tubes ?


 
 Yes they last a long time especially the drivers are only running at 12ma should last for ever.
 The only reason to get a spare set is in case the supply dries up.
 You can get EL3 for less and they will work.
  
 Oh your transformers are ordered.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, am I correct that these are 10,000 hour tubes ?
> ...


 
  
 Thank you sir.


----------



## gibosi

Here is another rectifier for EL3N owners (or the OTL running a quad of 6BL7), a 4-volt British Mazda/Ediswan UU7. This one was likely manufactured in the late 1940's as Mazda stopped "metallizing" this tube around 1950. There is actually a wire embedded in the metallized coating that is connected to pin 6. My assumption is that this coating was intended to function similarly to the C3g's metal can, providing some degree of shielding.
  
 Before people rush out to buy this tube, it is important to understand that this tube, and the more powerful UU8, are fitted with the Mazda octal base, which is different than the standard octal base. That is, the guide pin is too fat to allow insertion into a standard octal socket and the spacing of the pins is also different. So even if one were to enlarge the guide-pin hole in an octal socket, the spacing of the pins would prevent insertion of the tube into the socket. Oh, and the pin assignment is also different. And it is a 4-volt tube. So yes, an adapter is very necessary.
  
 To date, I do not have such an adapter.... I have been working with one of the eBay adapter builders, but in their first effort, they did not realize that the Mazda base was so different. They thought all they had to do was take a standard octal socket saver, incorporate a power resistor and reroute the pins. But of course, this adapter doesn't work. Once the Chinese New Year festivities are completed and people return to work, I am hoping their second effort will be better.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Here is another rectifier for EL3N owners (or the OTL running a quad of 6BL7), a 4-volt British Mazda/Ediswan UU7. This one was likely manufactured in the late 1940's as Mazda stopped "metallizing" this tube around 1950. There is actually a wire embedded in the metallized coating that is connected to pin 6. My assumption is that this coating was intended to function similarly to the C3g's metal can, providing some degree of shielding.
> 
> Before people rush out to buy this tube, it is important to understand that this tube, and the more powerful UU8, are fitted with the Mazda octal base, which is different than the standard octal base. That is, the guide pin is too fat to allow insertion into a standard octal socket and the spacing of the pins is also different. So even if one were to enlarge the guide-pin hole in an octal socket, the spacing of the pins would prevent insertion of the tube into the socket. Oh, and the pin assignment is also different. And it is a 4-volt tube. So yes, an adapter is very necessary.
> 
> To date, I do not have such an adapter.... I have been working with one of the eBay adapter builders, but in their first effort, they did not realize that the Mazda base was so different. They thought all they had to do was take a standard octal socket saver, incorporate a power resistor and reroute the pins. But of course, this adapter doesn't work. Once the Chinese New Year festivities are completed and people return to work, I am hoping their second effort will be better.



Which ebay seller are you working with?
I did asked a seller to do some adapter for me but it ended up bad as they dont understand my broken english


----------



## gibosi

eBay vendor: xulingmrs
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/201745286802


----------



## jekjek

@2359glenn
 Can i use 6N6G tube in your GOTL
 I found a bunch of these for free


----------



## 2359glenn

No it cannot be used   The 6N6 is a odd tube it is a driver and output in the same tube with a internal bias resistor.


----------



## Khragon

Glenn, or any amp expert
  
 Can I get some opinion on high frequency AC filament heating vs. DC?  I'm not sure which one is used in the Glenn 300B amp, is it constant current DC or constant voltage DC.
 Is there a scenario for one vs. the other?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Glenn, or any amp expert
> 
> Can I get some opinion on high frequency AC filament heating vs. DC?  I'm not sure which one is used in the Glenn 300B amp, is it constant current DC or constant voltage DC.
> Is there a scenario for one vs. the other?
> ...


 

 In your amp it is constant voltage DC. Some tubes like the ELrog cannot take constant current.
 I am not one for high frequency heating. I know you cant here 100Khz but it still gets in the signal and makes the highs sound harsh.


----------



## Khragon

Thanks Glenn

I was curious when stumbling on a couple posts on the Internet claiming high frequency heating sounds best, so thought I check with you. I knew there will always be some trade off.


----------



## Khragon

One of the RCA rectifier went out today, lucky the fuse kicked in and saved the day.  Thanks Glenn for putting a spare one so I'm back up and running with minimal down time.  I want to order a couple extra fuses, where is best to purchase these?  From looking at the existing fuse, it the modeled T2AH250V?  any particular brand I should look for?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> One of the RCA rectifier went out today, lucky the fuse kicked in and saved the day.  Thanks Glenn for putting a spare one so I'm back up and running with minimal down time.  I want to order a couple extra fuses, where is best to purchase these?  From looking at the existing fuse, it the modeled T2AH250V?  any particular brand I should look for?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 Ether Buss or Little Fuse It is a 2 amp slow blow 250 volt.  The T stands for time delay or slow blow.
 Do you have another set of tubes ?  If not I can send you some and some fuses if you can't find them.


----------



## Khragon

Thanks Glenn, I have some spare PY500As, so I'm good.  Amp is up and running, producing wonderful music now, looks like no harm was done thanks to the fuse.  I'll take the fuses of your hand if you have some to spare.


----------



## Oskari

Perhaps it would be a good idea to mention the size of the fuse (unless it's clear).


----------



## Khragon

They're the one that fit within the IEC socket. About 3/4" long. Not sure if there's a name for the size.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> They're the one that fit within the IEC socket. About 3/4" long. Not sure if there's a name for the size.


 

 It is a 5mm fuse


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn, for the EL3N amp, can I use a 5R4GY rectifier? What about a 274B?


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Glenn, for the EL3N amp, can I use a 5R4GY rectifier? What about a 274B?


 
 Yes you can use most all 5 volt rectifiers.
 What rectifier did he give you with the amp?
 Did you get the problem with the tube socket resolved?


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Yes you can use most all 5 volt rectifiers.
> What rectifier did he give you with the amp?
> Did you get the problem with the tube socket resolved?




Thanks for the confirmation. I have a 3dg4 and a hexfred. Yes I managed to resolve the dead channel issue by randomly plugging, swapping and unplugging tubes. What would be the cause of the issue? All the tubes lighted up but the left channel had no sound .


----------



## Xcalibur255

rossliew said:


> Glenn, for the EL3N amp, can I use a 5R4GY rectifier? What about a 274B?


 
  
 If you're looking for laid back / romantic with a big soundstage, the Brimar 5R4GY is your ticket.  The British made ones are more refined sounding than the US tubes which, in my experience, sounded grainier.


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes you can use most all 5 volt rectifiers.
> ...


 

 Do you like the sound of this amp??
 And the difference in sound from single tube to dual tube?
 It sounds like one of the tube sockets is not making contact with the tube pin.


----------



## gibosi

And I might suggest using a wire brush to clean the EL3N side-contacts to ensure there is a good connection in the socket.


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn, do you think it would be better to have the European Used side pin sockets, or the Chinese EL3N sockets.....I would love to have what ever you think would be better


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Do you like the sound of this amp??
> And the difference in sound from single tube to dual tube?
> It sounds like one of the tube sockets is not making contact with the tube pin.




I'm still trying to come to grips with the sound signature as compared to your OTL amp I used to have. The otl, from memory, seemed more dynamic and larger sounding albeit noisier sounding in my rig. This amp is smoother , more refined. Pentode mode is smoother and sweeter with vocals but less dynamic for more aggressive music. Triode mode has punchier bass yet seemingly slightly less holographic imaging. All this with my T1. 




gibosi said:


> And I might suggest using a wire brush to clean the EL3N side-contacts to ensure there is a good connection in the socket.




Noted with thanks, Ken. Shall have to get a wire brush just in case. Now that the issue has been resolved I'm very careful not to even touch the tube in question lol. 

On a side note, would I be able to use the usaf596 rectifier with this amp?


----------



## Rossliew

xcalibur255 said:


> If you're looking for laid back / romantic with a big soundstage, the Brimar 5R4GY is your ticket.  The British made ones are more refined sounding than the US tubes which, in my experience, sounded grainier.




Thanks for the recommendation. Will be sure to check it out


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Do you like the sound of this amp??
> ...


 

 Yes you can use the 596


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> On a side note, would I be able to use the usaf596 rectifier with this amp?


 
  
 As Glenn suggests, in your EL3N, you can use the same rectifiers that you use in your OTL.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks guys for the confirmation


----------



## whirlwind

Rossliew, have you tried the 596 rectifier in your EL3N amp yet......if so, what is the verdict.


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> Rossliew, have you tried the 596 rectifier in your EL3N amp yet......if so, what is the verdict.


 

 I have not. I was planning on purchasing one but held back.
  
 In fact, using the hexfred rectifier, i'm already getting goosebumps each time i listen and this is on Triode mode. Awesome tonality with full bodied sound and a truly holographic soundstage and imaging. This is tube magic, literally. You don't need another tube amp, period.


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Rossliew, have you tried the 596 rectifier in your EL3N amp yet......if so, what is the verdict.
> ...


 
  
 This is wonderful news to my ears.
  
 Thanks for that bit of info.


----------



## jelt2359

rossliew said:


> I have not. I was planning on purchasing one but held back.
> 
> In fact, using the hexfred rectifier, i'm already getting goosebumps each time i listen and this is on Triode mode. Awesome tonality with full bodied sound and a truly holographic soundstage and imaging. This is tube magic, literally. You don't need another tube amp, period.


 
 Glad that other people are finally discovering the magic of this amp. At its price it's ridiculous- and I think I have a good frame of reference where it comes to amp 
  
 Triode mode is double stage, btw- which was the original mode that Glenn fell in love with. _Much _more fun, full-bodied, meaty. The single-stage mode is pure, true, delicate. The two stages really sound like two different amps entirely- the sound changes much more than any tube-rolling could hope to alter. Great to have both choices.


----------



## lukeap69

jelt2359 said:


> Glad that other people are finally discovering the magic of this amp. At its price it's ridiculous- and I think I have a good frame of reference where it comes to amp
> 
> Triode mode is double stage, btw- which was the original mode that Glenn fell in love with. _Much _more fun, full-bodied, meaty. The single-stage mode is pure, true, delicate. The two stages really sound like two different amps entirely- the sound changes much more than any tube-rolling could hope to alter. Great to have both choices.


 
 Jason
  
 Is there anything that you would like to change in the GEL3N amp that you used to own? I know that you have a room of tube amps in your possession. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## whirlwind

jelt2359 said:


> rossliew said:
> 
> 
> > I have not. I was planning on purchasing one but held back.
> ...


 
 I am so happy that I decided to go this route and thanks to Glenn for a little persuasion  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 What could be better than to have the sound of two different amps.
  
 Great to hear that this amp stacks up that well, especially with all of the great gear you have, Jason.
  
 I remember Glenn telling me that he could not wait to get home from work to listen to it.


----------



## Rossliew

Indeed it's a good decision. I was sceptical about the amp as well until I took the decision to purchase it and listen with an open mind. Mind blowing to be exact.


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Indeed it's a good decision. I was sceptical about the amp as well until I took the decision to purchase it and listen with an open mind. Mind blowing to be exact.


 

 This amp sounds as good as a #45 tube amp without the hassle of direct heating.  I think the SQ beats my 300B amp less power but much less cost.
 When EL3N tubes can be gotten for $25 and I don't need 8 watts to my headphones.
 I have to build myself another one when I finish Whirlwind's amp I miss it shouldn't have sold it. Unless I have to build another one for Jason first.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> This amp sounds as good as a #45 tube amp without the hassle of direct heating.  I think the SQ beats my 300B amp less power but much less cost.
> When EL3N tubes can be gotten for $25 and I don't need 8 watts to my headphones.
> I have to build myself another one when I finish Whirlwind's amp I miss it shouldn't have sold it. Unless I have to build another one for Jason first.


 

 Hahaha...stop it or Jason will soon beg for one! 
  
 Glenn, could you design and build an electrostatic amp using these same tubes? or something with similar tonality/sound sig?


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> This is wonderful news to my ears.
> 
> Thanks for that bit of info.


 

 Once you get this amp, your OTL will get even lesser listening time...heh..


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > This amp sounds as good as a #45 tube amp without the hassle of direct heating.  I think the SQ beats my 300B amp less power but much less cost.
> ...


 

 Jason wants one with Tribute transformers and there is a waiting list for them.
 He might better just go back to Lundahl hard to beat.


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > This amp sounds as good as a #45 tube amp without the hassle of direct heating.  I think the SQ beats my 300B amp less power but much less cost.
> ...


 

 No they can't handle high enough voltage. EL34s are barley high enough voltage but they work well with electrostats.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Jason wants one with Tribute transformers and there is a waiting list for them.
> He might better just go back to Lundahl hard to beat.


 
  
 I haven't heard of that brand.  Are they supposed to be top shelf like Tamura and the like?
  
 If a guy felt like he was leaving something on the table with Lundahl they always have the option of getting the Amorphous core version of the Lundahl too.  I think I regret not doing this for my amp.  It's a lot of money but amorphous core trannies have a more pure tone and I've come to realize this is the cornerstone of what makes a stereo system feel good to listen to.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Jason wants one with Tribute transformers and there is a waiting list for them.
> ...


 
 Lundahl Amorphous core transformer is twice the money. But the Tribute transformers might be as much.
 With the transformer it has the SQ beats the 300B and might beat your 45 amp. Crazy for a $25 tube to sound this good.


----------



## Rossliew

Hmm...looks like we may soon be rolling transformers in our amps! 

Glenn, what's the approximate cost of an amorphous Lundahl tranny El3n amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Hmm...looks like we may soon be rolling transformers in our amps!
> 
> Glenn, what's the approximate cost of an amorphous Lundahl tranny El3n amp?


 

 About $2600 unless you want other upgrades


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> rossliew said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed it's a good decision. I was sceptical about the amp as well until I took the decision to purchase it and listen with an open mind. Mind blowing to be exact.
> ...


 
 That is really saying something about the SQ of this amp, that it can sound as good as the 300B amp when used with headphones.
  
 I am sitting here listening to the OTL amp with the HD800 and it sounds wonderful, listening to Albert Cummings.
 I love this amp.

  
 I have used this amp pretty much everyday since I have received it . The amp never misses a morning as long as I am home, also on most evenings.
  
 It will be fun to have both amps and be able to hear the difference between the different headphones, especially the ZMF Ori.
  
 Ken, you need to make a guide on rectifiers, as you can probably add to what dubstep has already done


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > rossliew said:
> ...


 

 Joe you are doomed.
 I will give you a few rectifiers even one Ken don't have the massive Russian 5U8C that draws 5 amps of heater current.


----------



## whirlwind

Thank you very much, Glenn....You are the man!


----------



## Khragon

You guys are tempting me, no way any amo is better than the almighty Glenn 300B with WE300B or Tak300B!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> You guys are tempting me, no way any amo is better than the almighty Glenn 300B with WE300B or Tak300B!!!


 

 I don't know this amp sounds dam good. Don't have nearly as much power as your 300B amp though.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> About $2600 unless you want other upgrades




What other upgrades are possible to pimp up the amp further?


----------



## Rossliew

I loved the otl when I had it but somehow it was sensitive and had hum fairly regularly...must be the dirty power in my area.


----------



## lukeap69

xcalibur255 said:


> I haven't heard of that brand.  Are they supposed to be top shelf like Tamura and the like?
> 
> If a guy felt like he was leaving something on the table with Lundahl they always have the option of getting the Amorphous core version of the Lundahl too.  I think I regret not doing this for my amp.  It's a lot of money but amorphous core trannies have a more pure tone and I've come to realize this is the cornerstone of what makes a stereo system feel good to listen to.




I think it is the same trafo used in EC Studio which Jason also owns amongst other things...


----------



## Rossliew

What amp does Jason NOT own...lol


----------



## Khragon

I decided to stick to normal (mu-metal) instead of amorphous core for my Glenn 300B because of this statement:
  
 "the brush strokes are broader with the mu-metal core transformers and they convey more “body”, whereas the amorphous core transformers offer finer brush strokes, which results in hearing more of the details while listening to the whole."
  
Link here.
  
I figured there's a reason I'm going with tube for the "body" of the music and I don't want to have an overly bright amp, and the fact that every one before me uses mu-metal with no complaint what so ever, I didn't want to risk it.


----------



## Rossliew

Now that is pertinent information. I prefer body in the music I listen to.


----------



## 2359glenn

Me personally I would stay with the regular iron mu metal.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Joe you are doomed.
> I will give you a few rectifiers even one Ken don't have the massive Russian 5U8C that draws 5 amps of heater current.


 
  
 If somebody wants one of these I'd be willing to send mine to them.  They're cool looking, but I didn't care for the sound (too soft) so it just sits in a drawer right now.  The OTL doesn't need any help sounding euphonic/romantic with its normal tube setups.
  
 Now as a collectors tube they're pretty darn neat.  Thing looks like a Soviet ICBM.


----------



## Xcalibur255

khragon said:


> I decided to stick to normal (mu-metal) instead of amorphous core for my Glenn 300B because of this statement:
> 
> "the brush strokes are broader with the mu-metal core transformers and they convey more “body”, whereas the amorphous core transformers offer finer brush strokes, which results in hearing more of the details while listening to the whole."
> 
> ...


 
  
 I suppose the only way to *really* know is to actually A/B compare which would be an expensive pain in the butt for anybody to undertake.  Personally I often find these kinds of descriptions misleading though.  This is exactly how people portray the difference between copper and silver cables too.  Once I started trying silver out for myself I found myself completely disagreeing with how most people describe them.  To my ears they quite literally just sound more "correct" as in the music sounds closer to actual live music as opposed to a recording.  Definitely not brighter or thinner or lacking in body which are the words you see come up all the time. 
  
 My gut tells me amorphous core transformers probably deliver the same kind of difference in that it just sounds more real due to increased low level detail fleshing out the timbre and harmonics, but that is just me whistling in the wind with nothing to back it up.  
  
 Part of me wants to get another amp and find out.  Another part of me feels guilty for having the thought because I already have several super nice amps and don't need more.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > I decided to stick to normal (mu-metal) instead of amorphous core for my Glenn 300B because of this statement:
> ...


 

 Hi Tyrell
  
 When I build one and keep it I will send it to you to audition. Was going to do that but I sold it to Jason.


----------



## ru4music

xcalibur255 said:


> I suppose the only way to *really* know is to actually A/B compare ...*Another part of me* *feels guilty* for having the thought because I already have several super nice amps and don't need more.


 
 And we feel bad for you!  Let us help you out with the guilt by allowing you to send us those "super nice amps" so that you may continue your journey of edification and audio bliss. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 BTW - really good points you are bringing out, especially since I have just added my name to the build list for Glen's TTL amps (i.e. considering the EL3N topology.)


----------



## jekjek

Side track abit
@2359glenn
 can i use abc1 tube in your GOTL?


----------



## Rossliew

With the surge in interest in the el3n amp, anyone want to sell off their 300B amps?


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> With the surge in interest in the el3n amp, anyone want to sell off their 300B amps?


 

 Nobody is going to do that!


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Side track abit
> @2359glenn
> can i use abc1 tube in your GOTL?


 
  
 I doubt it...
  
 https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/030/a/ABC1.pdf
  
 This appears to be akin to the 6AV6. a double diode / single triode. The 6AV6 was commonly used as a combined detector, amplifier and volume-control tube in automobile radio receivers. I used to roll these in my Little Dot. I simply cut off the diode pins and used them as single triodes. So, if I understand the ABC1 correctly, in the GOTL, it would require two tubes, with the diodes disabled, and connected into a 6SN7 socket. I doubt it would be worth the trouble...
  
 What say you Glenn?


----------



## leftside

rossliew said:


> With the surge in interest in the el3n amp, anyone want to sell off their 300B amps?


 
 I asked a while back


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Nobody is going to do that!




Hahahah well, one never knows...cmon guys , sell your 300B


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> jekjek said:
> 
> 
> > Side track abit
> ...


 

 It would work but to much gain use a 6BF6 it would be a round plate 12AU7. Ground the diodes there plates will act as a shield.
 It is a decent sounding tube I used to use them when I was a child in a preamp.  And these tubes can be gotten for little or nothing.
 You might like the sound of the 6BF6.
 The ABC1 is a 4 volt tube it might sound good I will look into it.


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Nobody is going to do that!
> ...


 

 They sound to good for somebody to want to part with it.


----------



## jelt2359

2359glenn said:


> They sound to good for somebody to want to part with it.


 
 That's 'cos they haven't heard the EL3N maybe


----------



## 2359glenn

jelt2359 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > They sound to good for somebody to want to part with it.
> ...


 

 Yea if they have the 300B they are not looking at the EL3N or they use it for speakers too.


----------



## Rossliew

Jason wants the EL3N again...build him one with the amorphous Lundahl, Glenn.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> jelt2359 said:
> 
> 
> > 2359glenn said:
> ...


 
 +1
  
 I would guess most who have the 300B amps are powering speakers , along with headphones.
  
 If somebody already has a 300B amp...then I would see no reason to want a EL3N


----------



## 2359glenn

The problem with the EL3N is nobody really knows about it.  Everybody wants tubes that they are familiar with
 even if they sound so so.
 This tube turned out to be a real gem it shines over most other tubes when used with a quality output transformer.
 This amp was a expensive experiment that worked out great didn't expect the SQ that the amp has.
 Next crazy experiment is running it fixed bias with a input transformer that would leave out the cathode resistor and bypass cap.
 The amp would essentially have 3 parts, 2 transformers and the EL3N.
 Plus the input transformer can double or quadruple the input voltage eliminating the need for the first stage completely.
 Cant get cleaner and simpler then that.
 The power transformer is made for a #45 tube so it has a bias winding that I am not using in the current EL3N amp.
 So will use it for fixed bias


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> The problem with the EL3N is nobody really knows about it.  Everybody wants tubes that they are familiar with
> even if they sound so so.
> This tube turned out to be a real gem it shines over most other tubes when used with a quality output transformer.
> This amp was a expensive experiment that worked out great didn't expect the SQ that the amp has.
> ...


 

 Now that would be interesting....but in all honesty, i would like to see a Glenn electrostatic amp. Possible?


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with the EL3N is nobody really knows about it.  Everybody wants tubes that they are familiar with
> ...


 

 Possible in the future was going to do it with four 300Bs for output tubes instead of EL34s.
  
 Jason would like the all transformer amp!


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Possible in the future was going to do it with four 300Bs for output tubes instead of EL34s.
> 
> Jason would like the all transformer amp!


 

 Jason like all amps built by Glenn


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Possible in the future was going to do it with four 300Bs for output tubes instead of EL34s.
> 
> Jason would like the all transformer amp!




That's what Hifiman is doing with their $50k Shangri-la electrostatic system. 

I'm using my 300B for speakers too, currently using tekton design Lore, and I have plan to buy a set of Zu speakers.


----------



## leftside

I must be in the minority as I don't want the 300B for speakers. I have a separate amp for the speakers. I like separates. Separate source (DAC, turntable, etc), preamp, amp, headphone amp, etc. My speakers are quite hard to drive though - the more headroom the better.


----------



## Khragon

If anything, I'm the minority.. speakers have since moved away from efficiency, considering that now we have 1kilowatt amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Possible in the future was going to do it with four 300Bs for output tubes instead of EL34s.
> ...


 

 Clayton is using my 300B to drive his Zu speakers


----------



## Khragon

He hasn't posted much impressions, I take it as a good sign that the paring is so wonderful no time for forum visits 
  
 I'm not sure which Zu to get, kind split between Omen Def (w/ tweeter upgrade) and Soul Supreme (like the obelisk design very much)


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> He hasn't posted much impressions, I take it as a good sign that the paring is so wonderful no time for forum visits
> 
> I'm not sure which Zu to get, kind split between Omen Def (w/ tweeter upgrade) and Soul Supreme (like the obelisk design very much)


 

 He has my first 300B that I sold so there old now and he doesn't post much any more.
 He has the Zu Omen I think.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> ...The amp would essentially have 3 parts, 2 transformers and the EL3N.
> *Plus the input transformer *can double or quadruple the input voltage eliminating the need for the first stage completely.
> Cant get cleaner and simpler then that.
> The power transformer is made for a #45 tube so it has a bias winding that I am not using in the current EL3N amp.
> So will use it for fixed bias


 
  
 Fully balanced input transformer, maybe???  I wonder if there would be a benefit from single ended?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > 2359glenn said:
> ...


 
 Clayton has so much gear, that he gets lost in it.
  
 I would love to spend a week in his listening room.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Hi Tyrell
> 
> When I build one and keep it I will send it to you to audition. Was going to do that but I sold it to Jason.


 
  
 I'd love to hear it Glenn.  Thanks for offering.  Were you planning to build yours with the amorphous trannies?


----------



## Xcalibur255

ru4music said:


> And we feel bad for you!  Let us help you out with the guilt by allowing you to send us those "super nice amps" so that you may continue your journey of edification and audio bliss.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Passing my existing amps to somebody else is an option of course, but that idea has never really sat well with me.  I don't judge anybody at all for doing so of course, but my personal feeling has always been that theses amps are custom build for *us* by a person who puts a lot of himself into the process to do it.  My 45 amp is mine.  I just can't imagine it belonging to somebody else.  It was made for me and reflects me and the ideas I had for it.
  
 But here's the other problem:  eventually we move on.  Our tastes change.  We want to hear something new, something different.  Something might surpass it and then it just sits unused.  Is continuing to keep the amp when it just sits and doesn't get used seem like the right thing to do either?  Ultimately my problem is that I get too emotionally attached to my things.  Maybe some of you guys can understand where I'm coming from here, or maybe I just sound crazy.  But emotion and music are two strongly connected things so I struggle with it.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Tyrell
> ...


 

 Probably not to much money for me.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> ru4music said:
> 
> 
> > And we feel bad for you!  Let us help you out with the guilt by allowing you to send us those "super nice amps" so that you may continue your journey of edification and audio bliss.
> ...


 
 I know what you are saying I still have a amplifier that I built when I was in the 4th grade. Don't think I will ever get rid of it
 Don't use it ****ty output transformers.


----------



## ru4music

xcalibur255 said:


> Passing my existing amps to somebody else is an option of course, but that idea has never really sat well with me.  I don't judge anybody at all for doing so of course, but my personal feeling has always been that theses amps are custom build for *us* by a person who puts a lot of himself into the process to do it.  My 45 amp is mine.  I just can't imagine it belonging to somebody else.  It was made for me and reflects me and the ideas I had for it.
> 
> But here's the other problem:  eventually we move on.  Our tastes change.  We want to hear something new, something different.  Something might surpass it and then it just sits unused.  Is continuing to keep the amp when it just sits and doesn't get used seem like the right thing to do either?  Ultimately my problem is that I get too emotionally attached to my things.  Maybe some of you guys can understand where I'm coming from here, or maybe I just sound crazy.  But emotion and music are two strongly connected things so I struggle with it.


 
 I understand, it's personal... very personal!  Like trying to give away a first-born so you can have a second child.


----------



## whirlwind

xcalibur255 said:


> ru4music said:
> 
> 
> > And we feel bad for you!  Let us help you out with the guilt by allowing you to send us those "super nice amps" so that you may continue your journey of edification and audio bliss.
> ...


 
 Yeah, there is no way I could get rid of an amp that Glenn made for me.
  
 Custom made and all done by hand by one individual...mine will be with me for the duration, Glenns work also helps remind me of my father who in a way, had a similar skill as Glenn


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Probably not to much money for me.


 

 Too bad Lundahl can't send you some loaners for prototyping ...now that would be sweet!


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I know what you are saying I still have a amplifier that I built when I was in the 4th grade. Don't think I will ever get rid of it
> Don't use it ****ty output transformers.


 
  
 I think it's so cool that you were doing this stuff even when you were a kid.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > ru4music said:
> ...


 
 That is wonderful, building an amplifier in the 4th grade.
  
 Do you have any idea how many amps you may have built in your time, Glenn ?


----------



## 2359glenn

I have no idea how many amps I built. Have a shed full of amp carcasses that I stripped to reuse the parts in something else.
 Some are still in one piece and would work if I got the spider webs off plugged them in.


----------



## Rossliew

Dammit...listening with my HD600 on the EL3N - the level of realism is stunning! Best after warm up for an hour or so...


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> Dammit...listening with my HD600 on the EL3N - the level of realism is stunning! Best after warm up for an hour or so...


 

 I am glad you like it .
 Not many realize how good the EL3N sounds.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> I am glad you like it .
> Not many realize how good the EL3N sounds.


 

 Indeed! Now comes the million dollar question - what comes next? Is this really end game?..


----------



## Xcalibur255

rossliew said:


> Indeed! Now comes the million dollar question - what comes next? Is this really end game?..


 
  
 My idea for endgame:  take the ideas Glenn talked about above for the EL3N (fixed bias, step-up input transformer, single gain stage) and attempt to implement them using the Emission Labs 30A directly heated triode.  Top shelf DC filament supplies and top shelf regulation/filtering.  Amorphous trannies wherever applicable, Lundahl or otherwise.  Silver internal hook-up wire.  Rhodium input jacks.  The best component parts regardless of their insane audiofool price tags.  Absolutely nothing left on the table.  It would probably cost north of 5 grand and who knows if it would be worth it.
  
 If I actually get a decent profit sharing bonus at work this year I just might be crazy enough to find out.  There is a certain peace of mind in knowing you went ALL in and held nothing back.


----------



## Khragon

Don't forget silver winding transformers, I think last time I talked to Glenn, one of those Silver Lunhdal is $2K each, need 2.  I got to say though, spending top dollars on highest cost components is unlikely the road to great sound, components matching is critical.


----------



## gibosi

You guys live in a very different world than I do! lol
  
 If I want to hear something new, something different, I just swap in some different tubes, and bingo, the GOTL becomes a different amp.


----------



## Rossliew

xcalibur255 said:


> My idea for endgame:  take the ideas Glenn talked about above for the EL3N (fixed bias, step-up input transformer, single gain stage) and attempt to implement them using the Emission Labs 30A directly heated triode.  Top shelf DC filament supplies and top shelf regulation/filtering.  Amorphous trannies wherever applicable, Lundahl or otherwise.  Silver internal hook-up wire.  Rhodium input jacks.  The best component parts regardless of their insane audiofool price tags.  Absolutely nothing left on the table.  It would probably cost north of 5 grand and who knows if it would be worth it.
> 
> If I actually get a decent profit sharing bonus at work this year I just might be crazy enough to find out.  There is a certain peace of mind in knowing you went ALL in and held nothing back.




Now that's not such a bad idea  Oh Glenn......



gibosi said:


> You guys live in a very different world than I do! lol
> 
> If I want to hear something new, something different, I just swap in some different tubes, and bingo, the GOTL becomes a different amp.




Hahahaha we are rolling amps here, Ken! In all honesty, I'm pretty much done with the hassle of tube rolling. As it is, I've just left the Hexfred rectifier in the EL3N and have not had the motivation to roll different rectifiers. All I do now is roll dacs seeing how transparent the amp is without losing its musicality


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Now that's not such a bad idea  Oh Glenn......
> Hahahaha we are *rolling amps* here, Ken! In all honesty, I'm pretty much done with the hassle of *tube rolling*. As it is, I've just left the Hexfred rectifier in the EL3N and have not had the motivation to roll different rectifiers. All I do now is *roll dacs* seeing how transparent the amp is without losing its musicality


 
  
 Hmmm... compared to rolling amps and dacs, rolling tubes would seem to be considerably less hassling, me thinks, and waaaaaay less expensive.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Hmmm... compared to rolling amps and dacs, rolling tubes would seem to be considerably less hassling, me thinks, and waaaaaay less expensive.


 
 Depends on the tubes


----------



## Khragon

Re tube rolling.. I've been having fun with rolling 300Bs.  Glenn 300B sounds good with all the 300B tubes I tried thus far, each with a slight tonality differences, but most are enjoyable.  I have tried from WE300B (reissue), TAK300B, Elrog (for a short time), SERP, and both EML mesh and XLS version.  My favorite is WE300B, then SERP, then EML XLS.  EML XLS have a very WE300B like signature when run at lower plate current (55-60 mA), but lacking that a touch of that musicality of the WE300B, but only if I switch back and forth within a short time frame, I wouldn't mind using the XLS actually.  SERP actually paired well with Glenn 300B, SERP tonality is on the dark side, but because the c3g and 42EC4 tubes are so transparent, it made SERP very enjoyable, and I like them with Utopia to darken Utopia a bit when the mood called for it.  EML Mesh is the exception, these are just too muddy for my taste.  I regretted selling my TAK300B to fund Utopia... and recently repurchased the pair, these will be the latest 2017 production if that make any difference.
  
 One thing with Glenn 300B is I don't think the amp is for sensitive cans, I find some noise (just a tiny tad with Utopia, and none at all with HD6XX) in the system and have been trying to roll in a good set of rectifers in hope to get rid of the noise.  Glenn is sending me a couple, and also I'm looking forward to the Hexfred, which from Tony's experience will completely solve this noise problem.


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> Hmmm... compared to rolling amps and dacs, rolling tubes would seem to be considerably less hassling, me thinks, and waaaaaay less expensive.


 
  
  


leftside said:


> Depends on the tubes


 
  
  
 Hahahaha..well, as left side said, tubes can cost a pretty penny as well and there are reasonably priced dacs.
  
  


khragon said:


> Re tube rolling.. I've been having fun with rolling 300Bs.  Glenn 300B sounds good with all the 300B tubes I tried thus far, each with a slight tonality differences, but most are enjoyable.  I have tried from WE300B (reissue), TAK300B, Elrog (for a short time), SERP, and both EML mesh and XLS version.  My favorite is WE300B, then SERP, then EML XLS.  EML XLS have a very WE300B like signature when run at lower plate current (55-60 mA), but lacking that a touch of that musicality of the WE300B, but only if I switch back and forth within a short time frame, I wouldn't mind using the XLS actually.  SERP actually paired well with Glenn 300B, SERP tonality is on the dark side, but because the c3g and 42EC4 tubes are so transparent, it made SERP very enjoyable, and I like them with Utopia to darken Utopia a bit when the mood called for it.  EML Mesh is the exception, these are just too muddy for my taste.  I regretted selling my TAK300B to fund Utopia... and recently repurchased the pair, these will be the latest 2017 production if that make any difference.
> 
> One thing with Glenn 300B is I don't think the amp is for sensitive cans, I find some noise (just a tiny tad with Utopia, and none at all with HD6XX) in the system and have been trying to roll in a good set of rectifers in hope to get rid of the noise.  Glenn is sending me a couple, and also I'm looking forward to the Hexfred, which from Tony's experience will completely solve this noise problem.


 
  
 I'm seriously thinking of a 300B amp with SS rectification to complement the EL3N...


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Depends on the tubes


 
  
 Well... I refuse to pay crazy money for any tube. And even though I am a tight-wad, I now have the luxury of hundreds of choices. Hey, I just picked up another mesh-plate rectifier for $40! Further, in my experience, tubes are very system dependent. Yes, even the so-called "super tubes" can sound pretty bad in some systems. So personally, I really don't feel that my system is lacking because I am cheap when it comes to tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

khragon said:


> Don't forget silver winding transformers, I think last time I talked to Glenn, one of those Silver Lunhdal is $2K each, need 2.  I got to say though, spending top dollars on highest cost components is unlikely the road to great sound, components matching is critical.


 
  
 Silver wound trannies was never on the table to begin with so I'm not worried about leaving them on said table.   
  
 What I described above is a thing I wish I could actually do, not just day-dreaming, but the fever dream does have a maximum temperature still.  I would absolutely be relying on Glenn, as we all do, and his expertise to ensure the ideas work together.  I agree component matching is critical, but as I continue to accumulate experience in these matters I've also come to believe that just about *everything* is a bottleneck to some extent or another and ignoring even the minor ones can end up hobbling the performance of an amp when you are using components like these.  The resolution is so good it will punish small oversights or any cheaping out on the little things.


----------



## Xcalibur255

> One thing with Glenn 300B is I don't think the amp is for sensitive cans, I find some noise (just a tiny tad with Utopia, and none at all with HD6XX) in the system and have been trying to roll in a good set of rectifers in hope to get rid of the noise.  Glenn is sending me a couple, and also I'm looking forward to the Hexfred, which from Tony's experience will completely solve this noise problem.


 
 I'm not sure what's different about my amp, but it has always been dead silent in terms of hum or noise.  Unless the tubes themselves are microphonic of course.  My switch to HEXFRED was motivated by an inability to find rectifiers that actually worked correctly, or ones that didn't produce that insufferable whining noise in the room.


----------



## Silent One

xcalibur255 said:


> > One thing with Glenn 300B is I don't think the amp is for sensitive cans, I find some noise (just a tiny tad with Utopia, and none at all with HD6XX) in the system and have been trying to roll in a good set of rectifers in hope to get rid of the noise.  Glenn is sending me a couple, and also I'm looking forward to the Hexfred, which from Tony's experience will completely solve this noise problem.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what's different about my amp, but it has always been dead silent in terms of hum or noise.  Unless the tubes themselves are microphonic of course.  My switch to HEXFRED was motivated by an inability to find rectifiers that actually worked correctly, or ones that didn't produce that insufferable whining noise in the room.





Greetings Xcalibur255!

I've frequently and long been away enjoying Surf & Sand. Is your recent post an indication you're close to doin' your first build? If so, that's excellent! Even if the master himself (2359glenn) consulted, that'd be Fantastique!


----------



## Xcalibur255

silent one said:


> Greetings Xcalibur255!
> 
> I've frequently and long been away enjoying Surf & Sand. Is your recent post an indication you're close to doin' your first build? If so, that's excellent! Even if the master himself (2359glenn) consulted, that'd be Fantastique!


 
  
 You mean build my own amp with my own two hands?  I don't possess 2% of the necessary knowledge I'm afraid.  I wish I did though.  Can't imagine a more satisfying hobby.
  
 I'm just barely wise enough to realize that the gap between looking up specs on tubes and actually being able to lay out a circuit and understand how it works and interacts is a very large gap indeed, one that requires a lot of effort and study to build a bridge across.  I have the utmost respect for those who make the effort to build that bridge.


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> xcalibur255 said:
> 
> 
> > My idea for endgame:  take the ideas Glenn talked about above for the EL3N (fixed bias, step-up input transformer, single gain stage) and attempt to implement them using the Emission Labs 30A directly heated triode.  Top shelf DC filament supplies and top shelf regulation/filtering.  Amorphous trannies wherever applicable, Lundahl or otherwise.  Silver internal hook-up wire.  Rhodium input jacks.  The best component parts regardless of their insane audiofool price tags.  Absolutely nothing left on the table.  It would probably cost north of 5 grand and who knows if it would be worth it.
> ...


 
  
 I want to get some different rectifiers for the EL3N amp, and Glenn said he would be kind enough to let me try a few different ones.
  
 In my GOTL , I still roll tubes, but I do not go crazy doing it any more, I do not change tubes twice a day or even change tubes every other day.
  
 I usually put tubes in and then listen to them for a couple two or three weeks , maybe even more...i always write down my impressions of the combo that I am using , it makes for a nice thing to go back to and read 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The great thing about rolling is that, I can get just enough of a different tone to change things up a little bit, and I really like that.
  
 Also, as far as having to spend lots of money rolling tubes, it is very nice to only have to buy one driver tube for Glenns OTL....that in itself saves you money.
  
 On top of that, Glenn's 6/12/25 switch is the cats meow, you can find some fantastic deals on 12 and 25 volt SN7 tubes....I found some wonderful 12SN7 TSBGRP tubes for much , much cheaper than the 6SN7 version.
  
 I believe most people who would get an GOTL would be rolling tubes at least to see what they liked, but even if you left the amp with some modest tubes in it, it sounds *fantastic!*
  
 In my amp, the 5998 power tubes and the C3g driver tubes sound wonderful with any of my headphones....I could live with just this combo....black back round, wonderful tone.
  
 That being said the amp sounds wonderful with some cheap 6080 power tubes and a 25 volt RCA smoked glass 6SN7 tube....which I bought 6 tubes for $33, can't beat that.
  
 I still like buying tubes when i see a good deal, but feel I have enough for a life time now.
  
 At least in my amp, I find that the C3g tubes make all power tubes pretty damn good and really good power tubes make cheaper driver tubes sound pretty good
  
 Even though I have not heard too many different OTL amps, I can not imagine one could get a much better deal or bang for their buck than Glenns amp.
  
 Seems his power supplies have much more capabilities than most OTL amps.
  
 When I bought my amp, I remember Glenn telling me that there would be enough tube rolling options .."to drive me crazy"...*he was right.*


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> rossliew said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed! Now comes the million dollar question - what comes next? Is this really end game?..
> ...


 

 I agree but not with the 30A have no idea what this tube sounds like. To spend that kind of money on a unknown tube is risky.
 But I did spend $1k on transformers for the unknown EL3N and it worked out great.


----------



## Rossliew

The EL3N is the new 300B


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> The EL3N is the new 300B


 

 Not as much power but sounds as good maybe better.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> Not as much power but sounds as good maybe better.


 
  
 Can it drive a pair of Audez'e LCD-3s?


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Not as much power but sounds as good maybe better.
> ...


 

 Maybe it is 1.5 watts do they need more power then that??


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> Maybe it is 1.5 watts do they need more power then that??




I think 1.5 watts is on the low end it's power requirement.


----------



## Rossliew

This amp is transparent yet musical, a difficult combo to have in a single amp, usually one or the other. And it drives all my cans wonderfully! Pair it with a forward sounding delta sigma Dac or an organic sounding NOS Dac and you will still get some of the most musical sounding tunes you never thought possible from your database of tunes. I listen almost exclusively to Spotify premium and it sounds damn good already. Imagine what high res tunes will sound like....


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> This amp is transparent yet musical, a difficult combo to have in a single amp, usually one or the other. And it drives all my cans wonderfully! Pair it with a forward sounding delta sigma Dac or an organic sounding NOS Dac and you will still get some of the most musical sounding tunes you never thought possible from your database of tunes. I listen almost exclusively to Spotify premium and it sounds damn good already. Imagine what high res tunes will sound like....


 
 What headphones have you been listening to with it.


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> This amp is transparent yet musical, a difficult combo to have in a single amp, usually one or the other. And it drives all my cans wonderfully! Pair it with a forward sounding delta sigma Dac or an organic sounding NOS Dac and you will still get some of the most musical sounding tunes you never thought possible from your database of tunes. I listen almost exclusively to Spotify premium and it sounds damn good already. Imagine what high res tunes will sound like....


 

 Ross
 Next one with amorphous transformers


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> What headphones have you been listening to with it.


 
  
 Primarily T1 gen 2. in fact, all my cans sound great out of it - HD600/PM2/Grados...
  


2359glenn said:


> Ross
> Next one with amorphous transformers


 
  
 Ssshhhhh....don't tempt Whirlwind or Jason


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > What headphones have you been listening to with it.
> ...


 

 You will get the first one with amorphous.
 I already have Whirlwind's transformers


----------



## jelt2359

2359glenn said:


> You will get the first one with amorphous.
> I already have Whirlwind's transformers


 
 Is this for @Rossliew 's 300B?


----------



## Rossliew

jelt2359 said:


> Is this for @Rossliew 's 300B?


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > What headphones have you been listening to with it.
> ...


 
*NOOOOO.....*no more upgrades for me, I am tapped out!
  
 Glenn already has my Lundahl's.


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> *NOOOOO.....*no more upgrades for me, I am tapped out!
> 
> Glenn already has my Lundahl's.




Upgradititis will hit soon muahahahha


----------



## leftside

Hey guys, I'm looking for some C3g and 300B recommendations. The Tak's seems to be very highly regarded, but are out of my price range at the moment. Anyone tried these tubes:
 https://best300b-com.myshopify.com/collections/kr-audio/products/kr-300b
  
 I use a KR 5U4G in my DAC and it works very well.


----------



## rosgr63

KR's are not bad provided you get a good pair.
 Is the price quoted for a single tube or a pair?


----------



## Khragon

I recommend Eml 300B xls, it designed for higher power amp, and should last forever running as normal 300b. Very pleasing sound signature, a tad less dynamic compared to tak, but at almost 1/3 the price it's a very good alternative. You can buy used from a trusted seller to save about 100 to 150.


----------



## leftside

rosgr63 said:


> KR's are not bad provided you get a good pair.
> Is the price quoted for a single tube or a pair?


 
 For a single tube. If buying a pair they will be matched.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> rosgr63 said:
> 
> 
> > KR's are not bad provided you get a good pair.
> ...


 
 Not a big deal if the tubes aren't matched with adjustable bias you set the cathode current to be the same on the meters.
 So the two tubes will be drawing the same current even if they are not matched.


----------



## leftside

Any thoughts on the reissue WE 300B (the ones in the  blue/red box)? I can get these locally, but they are about the same price as a pair of new Taks. Datestamp of 9958 (1999?) I'm thinking the Taks would be the better option here. 
  
 There's a guy in Hong Kong selling new Tak's for $1700 inc. shipping if anyone is interested. He had two pairs, but he has just one pair remaining now.


----------



## 2359glenn

I would go with the Taks are the WEs from 1999 really NOS ????


----------



## Khragon

Buying Tak for North America use from a Hong Kong guy doesn't sound very reassuring, I think you should get them from pricejapan or parts connexion, or Woo Audio.
  
 PriceJapan got the best price.
  
 If you are going to buy NOS tubes, I suggest investing in a calibrated tube tester first, and buy from seller with good return policy.


----------



## leftside

The WEs are not NOS. They are used.
  
 PriceJapan do have a good price (but currently back ordered). I'll check them out next time I'm looking to purchase tubes. Thanks for the contact! I've also purchased from Parts Connexion before. Highly recommended.
  
 I've purchased from this guy/store in Hong Kong before though - and they double box - and just as importantly for me as I'm in Canada, they help me save on the ridiculous brokerage fees I'd otherwise be charged.
  
 I do typically purchase NOS tubes from known sellers - and I've accumulated quite a few over the years. I've also taken the risk on eBay a few times, and most of the times it has worked out. Twice though I've been sold defective ECC32 tubes, and in these instances either the seller provided a complete refund, or Paypal buyer protection was used. I've also had good luck purchasing quality used tubes from here. To be honest, my tube collection is totally out of control, and for my next tube amp I don't want to do any tube rolling. Famous last words....?


----------



## jelt2359

leftside said:


> The WEs are not NOS. They are used.
> 
> PriceJapan do have a good price (but currently back ordered). I'll check them out next time I'm looking to purchase tubes. Thanks for the contact! I've also purchased from Parts Connexion before. Highly recommended.
> 
> ...


 
 Last I heard PriceJapan has not responded promptly for a while now. Not sure if things have changed.
  
 No rolling? GEL3N calls out to you.


----------



## rosgr63

leftside said:


> To be honest, my tube collection is totally out of control, and for my next tube amp I don't want to do any tube rolling. Famous last words....?


 
  
 Never say never when it comes to tubes.
 Maybe your next amp will use a different family of tubes..........


----------



## Oskari

jelt2359 said:


> No rolling? GEL3N calls out to you.




Strictly speaking not true. There were several makers of EL3Ns.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> The WEs are not NOS. They are used.
> 
> PriceJapan do have a good price (but currently back ordered). I'll check them out next time I'm looking to purchase tubes. Thanks for the contact! I've also purchased from Parts Connexion before. Highly recommended.
> 
> ...


 

 How do I get the amp to you with out ridiculous fees?  Guess I can say it is used and cheep.


----------



## jelt2359

oskari said:


> Strictly speaking not true. There were several makers of EL3Ns.


 
 Really? I haven't seen another EL3N head-fi amp. Can you share any you may know of? I'm curious.


----------



## TonyNewman

Anyone heard both the Glenn 300B and Glenn EL3N and care to share some thoughts? I'm kinda curious how they stack up


----------



## Oskari

jelt2359 said:


> Really? I haven't seen another EL3N head-fi amp. Can you share any you may know of? I'm curious.




I was talking about tube rolling, not amp rolling.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> Anyone heard both the Glenn 300B and Glenn EL3N and care to share some thoughts? I'm kinda curious how they stack up



 


Tony have you got your amp back from getting the transformer potted?


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone heard both the Glenn 300B and Glenn EL3N and care to share some thoughts? I'm kinda curious how they stack up
> ...


 
  
 Not yet. The guy that does it is having some issues with his gear (blown thermostat). Might be a while.


----------



## jelt2359

tonynewman said:


> Anyone heard both the Glenn 300B and Glenn EL3N and care to share some thoughts? I'm kinda curious how they stack up


 
 That would be Glenn!


oskari said:


> I was talking about tube rolling, not amp rolling.


 
 Got it.


----------



## whirlwind

tonynewman said:


> Anyone heard both the Glenn 300B and Glenn EL3N and care to share some thoughts? I'm kinda curious how they stack up


 
 Glenn commented on this a couple of pages back.


----------



## Rossliew

EL3N is awesome! (Though I have not heard the 300B lol). No need for tube rolling and from a cost perspective it's a win for me


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> EL3N is awesome! (Though I have not heard the 300B lol). No need for tube rolling and from a cost perspective it's a win for me


 

 ​Going to start building the next one next week. Got NOS tube sockets they should be better then the ones made in China.


----------



## Rossliew

Ahh Glenn, Mr whirlwind will be a happy camper soon


----------



## musicman59

I got a PM from Glenn, my 300b amp is almost done! 
It has Lundahl transformers, Dueland capacitors, Goldpoint 47 steps attenuator, Neotech OCC copper wiring, Cardas Eutectic solder, Furutech IEC, Furutech RCA sockets and ViaBlue spikes.


----------



## Khragon

Very nice, looking forward to another Glenn vs Woo comparison.


----------



## Seamaster

khragon said:


> Very nice, looking forward to another Glenn vs Woo comparison.


 

 It is going to blow Woo amp away.


----------



## TonyNewman

seamaster said:


> It is going to blow Woo amp away.


 
  
 I can give a comparison between the Glenn 300B and WA5 - the WA5 is less detailed, less dynamic, less transparent. It is also more "tubey" - more euphonic and warm sounding. On some tracks - like female vocals, that can be a good thing. My preference is very much for the Glenn amp (I sold the WA5), but I would describe them as being very, very different amps. Some folks might even prefer the WA5, but not me.
  
 I was running TA300/TA274B/TS RP in the WA5, so the tubes were close to as good as it gets.


----------



## Seamaster

tonynewman said:


> I can give a comparison between the Glenn 300B and WA5 - the WA5 is less detailed, less dynamic, less transparent. It is also more "tubey" - more euphonic and warm sounding. On some tracks - like female vocals, that can be a good thing. My preference is very much for the Glenn amp (I sold the WA5), but I would describe them as being very, very different amps. Some folks might even prefer the WA5, but not me.
> 
> I was running TA300/TA274B/TS RP in the WA5, so the tubes were close to as good as it gets.


 

 I had a maxed-out and modded (by Mod Wright) WA22 that I spent quite a bit of money on it, and did not get it right. Woo amp sound too romantic and tubby, slow, and most importantly veiled. Music did not flow feely. My 40 years old Scott 222D sound better than WA22 out of HP output!


----------



## TonyNewman

seamaster said:


> I had a maxed-out and modded (by Mod Wright) WA22 that I spent quite a bit of money on it, and did not get it right. Woo amp sound too romantic and tubby, slow, and most importantly veiled. Music did not flow feely. My 40 years old Scott 222D sound better than WA22 out of HP output!


 
  
 Yep - agreed - my WA5 (old model) was similar, but there were times - like with slower female vocals - where the WA5 with a top flight tube set could excel. 98% of the time, give me the Glenn amp. That's why I sold the WA5.
  
 My audio buddy has a WA22 and he has done a lot of experimenting with different tube sets and SS rectification - he is pretty happy with the sound now, but it took a lot of effort to get there.


----------



## leftside

There are a couple of people who have had bad experiences with the WA22, but I (and many more on the Woo forums) have been very happy with the WA22, but it can certainly be temperamental. I remember not being too happy with it when I first got it, but that turned out to be the tubes. Currently running 4 * 6BX7's, 2 * ECC32's and Cossor 53KU fat base. B65's give a slightly more romantic sound. 
  
 I can drive multiple amps simultaneously with my preamp, so am looking forward to comparing the WA22 and the Glenn 300B this year. I'm keeping the WA22 no matter what. I have another room where that will be going.


----------



## leftside

My wife has been getting some good cast-offs the last couple of years. First of all, she got the HE-500's, then she got the McIntosh D100, and next in line will be the WA22 (which she is particularly happy about). This is probably a better system than what 99.9% of the population has. It's just us guys on forums like these that make it seem "normal" to spend the amount of $'s we do.


----------



## musicman59

My amp is getting close to be shipped!  
It is in the final burn-in process. Hopefully I will it by the end of the week.


----------



## Rossliew

A beauty indeed! Love the oversized VU meters


----------



## parbaked

Nice work Glenn...as usual!
I think the meters are for adjusting bias and are not V U meters.
Glenn can build an auto bias amp and replace those with V U meters which would be pretty sweet.


----------



## Hansotek

musicman59 said:


> My amp is getting close to be shipped!
> It is in the final burn-in process. Hopefully I will it by the end of the week.





DAAAAAAAAAAAMMMNNNN!!!! So jealous!!


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> Nice work Glenn...as usual!
> I think the meters are for adjusting bias and are not V U meters.
> Glenn can build an auto bias amp and replace those with V U meters which would be pretty sweet.


 

 I could do that but manual bias sounds better no cathode resistor and bypass capacitor.
 Out to build the best sounding amp.
 Maybe I can squeeze in VU meters


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> I could do that but manual bias sounds better no cathode resistor and bypass capacitor.
> Out to build the best sounding amp.
> Maybe I can squeeze in VU meters


 
 What, you didn't offer me VU meter option? lol...


----------



## Rossliew

Hmm my el3n screams for a pair of VU meters


----------



## jelt2359

@whirlwind should get your GEL3N with Vu meters!


----------



## lukeap69

jelt2359 said:


> @whirlwind should get your GEL3N with Vu meters!




Well I'm afraid Joe will just gaze at the Vu meters all the time...


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I could do that but manual bias sounds better no cathode resistor and bypass capacitor.
> ...


 

 I didn't think about it.
 I don't think I could find room with that impedance switch.


----------



## whirlwind

jelt2359 said:


> @whirlwind should get your GEL3N with Vu meters!


 
 Well, if Glenn can fit them in and it wont totally break the bank, I would be all for it.
  
 Shoot me a pm with the price, if this is possible Glenn.....thank you.
  
  
 That 300B amp looks wonderful, Glenn!


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> jelt2359 said:
> 
> 
> > @whirlwind should get your GEL3N with Vu meters!
> ...


 

 I might have a couple have to look.
 Then see if there is a spot I can squeeze them in


----------



## rosgr63

Beauti


musicman59 said:


> My amp is getting close to be shipped!
> It is in the final burn-in process. Hopefully I will it by the end of the week.


 

 Beautiful amp, congratulations!!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > jelt2359 said:
> ...


 
 Thank you very much Glenn, if you do not have any, let me know and I will send you money to get some, I would love round ones.
  
 Just add whatever extra I owe you on the price of the amp  and let me know.
  
 Thanks again , Glenn....You Rock!


----------



## 2359glenn

I have to see if I can move things around to fit them in yours will have 2 extra knobs one for inputs and one for single-dual tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Looking sharp.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I have to see if I can move things around to fit them in yours will have 2 extra knobs one for inputs and one for single-dual tubes.


 
  
 OK Glenn....if the meters have to be smaller.....I am all good with that....thanks Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

Just got home from work and am listening to ThePianoGuys on musicman59's 300B amp and WOW


----------



## musicman59

2359glenn said:


> Just got home from work and am listening to ThePianoGuys on musicman59's 300B amp and WOW


 
 Stop teasing me!!!!


----------



## Khragon

Haha.. such tease...
  
 What tubes are you using Glenn?


----------



## whirlwind

musicman59 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Just got home from work and am listening to ThePianoGuys on musicman59's 300B amp and WOW
> ...


 
 Ha ha ha.....good times ahead for you, sir.


----------



## Seamaster

2359glenn said:


> Just got home from work and am listening to ThePianoGuys on musicman59's 300B amp and WOW




I love that CD too! Wonderful bass line, string and piano.


----------



## 2359glenn

seamaster said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Just got home from work and am listening to ThePianoGuys on musicman59's 300B amp and WOW
> ...


 

 I got it from Khragon this is the same 300B amp he has and it really gives this CD justice.
 At one point I had it so loud I thought I was going to blow my phones on the bass.


----------



## Rossliew

This is getting way outta hand....300b, EL3N, 300b, EL3N.....


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> This is getting way outta hand....300b, EL3N, 300b, EL3N.....


 

 What these are my best sounding amps.
 Hell you got one.


----------



## Seamaster

2359glenn said:


> I got it from Khragon this is the same 300B amp he has and it really gives this CD justice.
> At one point I had it so loud I thought I was going to blow my phones on the bass.


 

 Have you tried the CD I sent to you? The same The Piano Guys. Yeah, the bass goes really DEEP.


----------



## 2359glenn

seamaster said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I got it from Khragon this is the same 300B amp he has and it really gives this CD justice.
> ...


 

 Dave Brubeck I have listened to it great lows.
 Haven't listened on the 300B yet listened on the EL3N amp.


----------



## Seamaster

2359glenn said:


> Dave Brubeck I have listened to it great lows.
> Haven't listened on the 300B yet listened on the EL3N amp.


 
  
  
 I am glad you enjoyed it with your new amp. If your amp does not have problem with the bass from that CD (I am pretty sure your amp handles it well), then your amp excels in the bass department! I have heard quite a few other 300B, KT88, and 845 based amps struggled with this album.


----------



## 2359glenn

seamaster said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Dave Brubeck I have listened to it great lows.
> ...


 

 They probably didn't use Lundahl output transformers low frequency limit -1DB at 7Hz


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> Haha.. such tease...
> 
> What tubes are you using Glenn?


 

 Now I have the KR globe 300Bs from my speaker amps in it these sound great to me.


----------



## musicman59

2359glenn said:


> Now I have the KR globe 300Bs from my speaker amps in it these sound great to me.



I've seen there is a new KR series. The HP (White base). Have you tried them?


----------



## lukeap69

musicman59 said:


> I've seen there is a new KR series. The HP (White base). Have you tried them?




Finally after a long wait Jose. I am sure you will be very happy with Glenn's amp. Congrats.


----------



## musicman59

lukeap69 said:


> Finally after a long wait Jose. I am sure you will be very happy with Glenn's amp. Congrats.



Thanks man! These last few days until it gets here are going to be long!!


----------



## lukeap69

musicman59 said:


> Thanks man! These last few days until it gets here are going to be long!!




I am sure of that. I can't remember any 2 weeks of my life longer than any other 2 weeks of my whole existence when I was waiting for my Darna to arrive.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> What these are my best sounding amps.
> Hell you got one.




You're absolutely right on both statements...but that pic of the 300B is making me shiver all over with voices in my head telling me to place an order for one.....


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn...after doing some thinking, let's kill the idea of the VU meters.
  
 I think I will use that money on something more beneficial to the sound.
  
 I am take the extra set of inputs, and maybe have you make me an rectifier adapter....if this is ok .


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Glenn...after doing some thinking, let's kill the idea of the VU meters.
> 
> I think I will use that money on something more beneficial to the sound.
> 
> I am take the extra set of inputs, and maybe have you make me an rectifier adapter....if this is ok .


 

 OK VU meters look cool but do nothing for the sound


----------



## Khragon

Good choice.. you can always get VU on Glenn pre-amp.. hint hint


----------



## whirlwind

khragon said:


> Good choice.. you can always get VU on Glenn pre-amp.. hint hint


 
 Ha ha.
  
 Yeah after thinking it over, I will get functionality out of another set of inputs and I have always said if I got an amp that used rolling rectifiers that I would try the 596.


----------



## Khragon

Glenn,
  
 What do you think?  Breaking these tubes are harder than I thought, the instruction for breaking glass tubes didn't work very well with vacuum tubes.
  
 Are these good enough for you to work with?


----------



## 2359glenn

Maybe they will be OK I will try ti fit them into a PVC pipe were I will put the diode.
  
 Did you save the metal cap on top of the tube? I can reuse it.
  
 I tried cutting it with a Dremil tool with cutting wheel and that didn't work out well.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > Good choice.. you can always get VU on Glenn pre-amp.. hint hint
> ...


 

 I guess you can still get them.
 For awhile the price went up into the stratosphere I see they came down some.
 5 years ago I could get them for $15
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/596-Tube-United-Rectifier-Replace-274A-5U4G-5R4-use-adapter-eBay-Woo-More-/252828422609?hash=item3addbf91d1:g:HnYAAOSwt5hYcaJC


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Maybe they will be OK I will try ti fit them into a PVC pipe were I will put the diode.
> 
> Did you save the metal cap on top of the tube? I can reuse it.
> 
> I tried cutting it with a Dremil tool with cutting wheel and that didn't work out well.


 
 There goes my idea of doing this using a dremel next.
 I'm going to see if I can get a better pair, and ship them to you.  Sorry I don't have the top, it was destroyed during the operation


----------



## 2359glenn

khragon said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe they will be OK I will try ti fit them into a PVC pipe were I will put the diode.
> ...


 

 I have some useless tubes I can take the caps off of.
 Maybe cut the top and loose the vacuum then cut the bottom.
 Or twist the top cap off to loose the vacuum first


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > khragon said:
> ...


 
 Glenn, am I correct that you introduced the 596 to the community. Very cheap at the time
  
 I remember about the time that I received my OTL amp....this tube was way up there.


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes I introduced them about 6 years ago I was making the adapter. Then I went into the hospital for 2 months
 and somebody bought all of them up and started selling them for over $100 each then they went up to over $200 each.


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn said:


> Yes I introduced them about 6 years ago I was making the adapter. Then I went into the hospital for 2 months
> and somebody bought all of them up and started selling them for over $100 each then they went up to over $200 each.


 
  
 I remember that time very well. Glenn contacted me then and asked me if I wanted to try out a new tube that he had found. He said that he would include the adapter with the 596 tube for me to try out. Back then the 596 was $8 a piece but you had to buy them in groups of 8.


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I introduced them about 6 years ago I was making the adapter. Then I went into the hospital for 2 months
> ...


 

 Long time ago Clayton.
 You were one of the few that had one of my amplifiers.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Has it really been that long already?  Time really does fly.


----------



## musicman59

It arrived! It arrived!

Tonight is play time!


----------



## Khragon

Congrats!!!! welcome to the club.


----------



## 3083joe

musicman59 said:


> It arrived! It arrived!
> 
> Tonight is play time!



Congrats. Can't wait to get mine!


----------



## whirlwind

Congrats musicman59
  
 Good times tonight and many nights after.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Congrats musicman59
> 
> Good times tonight and many nights after.


 

 Start building your EL3N amp this weekend.


----------



## ru4music

musicman59 said:


> It arrived! It arrived!
> 
> Tonight is play time!


 

 Yippee for you (enjoy)!  ...and also for the rest of us on the waiting list.


----------



## Rossliew

Pics or it didn't arrive


----------



## Xcalibur255

Congratulations.  The wallet pain won't end here.  Glen's amps are so good you end up upgrading everything else connected to them to do them proper justice.
  
 Literally everything else in my system is new now since I got my 45 amp a few years ago, and it sounds so much better today.  Every change just kept unleashing more potential that was laying hidden in the amp.
  
 Ironically I don't listen as often as I used to, but when I do it's eyes closed with the lights off and I enjoy it immensely.
  
 BTW, to everybody here, if you've never tried this (listening in a *completely* dark room) then you should.  The way the notes just emerge from the inky black is just an amazing experience.  How well you can perceive the room/venue the music was recorded in is also amazing and adds yet another dimension to the listening experience.


----------



## musicman59

xcalibur255 said:


> Congratulations.  The wallet pain won't end here.  Glen's amps are so good you end up upgrading everything else connected to them to do them proper justice.
> 
> Literally everything else in my system is new now since I got my 45 amp a few years ago, and it sounds so much better today.  Every change just kept unleashing more potential that was laying hidden in the amp.
> 
> ...



It's going to be difficult to upgrade from an Aurender server and a Bricasti M1 SE DAC!


----------



## musicman59

rossliew said:


> Pics or it didn't arrive



Here are some crape pictures from my phone. I will take better ones over the weekend.


----------



## Khragon

What are those copper pieces? and their function?


----------



## Rossliew

musicman59 said:


> Here are some crape pictures from my phone. I will take better ones over the weekend.




Gorgeous !!! Let us know your impressions please!



khragon said:


> What are those copper pieces? and their function?




Yes I'm curious to know as well..


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Congrats musicman59
> ...


 
  
 Sounds great, Glenn.


----------



## musicman59

khragon said:


> What are those copper pieces? and their function?


 
 They are brass weights from Mapelshades. They help to reduce mechanical vibration of the chassis in any equipment. Is like the tube dampers but for chassis or equipment cases.


----------



## Xcalibur255

musicman59 said:


> It's going to be difficult to upgrade from an Aurender server and a Bricasti M1 SE DAC!


 
  
 You get the full experience right from the start then.


----------



## ru4music

xcalibur255 said:


> You get the full experience right from the start then.


 
  
  


musicman59 said:


> *It's going to be difficult to upgrade* from an Aurender server and a Bricasti M1 SE DAC!


 

 Don't they make a Bricasti M1 *GOLD* edition?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Looking forward to your impressions after your weekend marathon listening session (I'm assuming that's what your going to do)!


----------



## Rossliew

Them brass weights look like something worth checking out..


----------



## musicman59

ru4music said:


> Don't they make a Bricasti M1 *GOLD* edition?? :tongue_smile: :veryevil: :veryevil:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, there is one and actually the thick gold platting makes it heavier and damps the chassis better.

Yes, that's what I am planning to do.


----------



## musicman59

rossliew said:


> Them brass weights look like something worth checking out..



Yes, Mapleshades has some interesting stuff and at decent pricies.


----------



## musicman59

Have any of the Glenn's 300b amp tried it with he Focal Utopia headphones?


----------



## Khragon

I'm using Utopia with Glenn 300B


----------



## Rossliew

musicman59 said:


> Yes, Mapleshades has some interesting stuff and at decent pricies.




How does the Glenn 300B compare to your WA5 LE?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm sure I must look simply precious to some people here when I ramble on with my thoughts of whimsy like I do.  I have less money to throw at this hobby than most people and consider myself very lucky that I've had the chance in recent years to acquire the gear I do have.  I forget sometimes that this stuff is just not a big deal to a lot of head-fiers and the experiences that floor me so much are old hat to them.


----------



## musicman59

rossliew said:


> How does the Glenn 300B compare to your WA5 LE?



So far I think the Woo has a more lush sound while the Glenn's is more transparent and dynamic.
Both are great in different ways .


----------



## Seamaster

musicman59 said:


> So far I think the Woo has a more lush sound while the Glenn's is more transparent and dynamic.
> Both are great in different ways .



You mean more mushy, LOL


----------



## Rossliew

musicman59 said:


> So far I think the Woo has a more lush sound while the Glenn's is more transparent and dynamic.
> Both are great in different ways .


 

 Ahh...the Woos being lusher sounding seems to be the majority consensus. Is that with top tier tubes? 
  
 This 300B business is getting to me...gotta resist!


----------



## musicman59

rossliew said:


> Ahh...the Woos being lusher sounding seems to be the majority consensus. Is that with top tier tubes?
> 
> This 300B business is getting to me...gotta resist!


 
 IN the Woo I used Chemler 53KU or 596 rectifiers. The drivers were 6F8G Tungsol BG/RP and the 300B were either EML 300b Mesh or AVVT AV32B which are equivalent to 300B XLS.


----------



## gibosi

musicman59 said:


> IN the Woo I used Chemler 53KU or 596 rectifiers. The drivers were 6F8G Tungsol BG/RP and the 300B were either EML 300b Mesh or AVVT AV32B which are equivalent to 300B XLS.


 
  
 Is the Chemler 53KU actually a Cossor 53KU? The one that is often called a "fat GZ37"? Or is it one of the skinny Mullard-made GZ33 or GZ37?


----------



## musicman59

gibosi said:


> Is the Chemler 53KU actually a Cossor 53KU? The one that is often called a "fat GZ37"? Or is it one of the skinny Mullard-made GZ33 or GZ37?


 
 Yes, it is probably a rebranded Cossor and yes it is the fat bottle one.


----------



## Khragon

musicman59 said:


> IN the Woo I used Chemler 53KU or 596 rectifiers. The drivers were 6F8G Tungsol BG/RP and the 300B were either EML 300b Mesh or AVVT AV32B which are equivalent to 300B XLS.


 
 EML Mesh from my experience is too muddy for my taste, I can't imagine it in the warmer Woo.  How do you like EML Mesh in Woo vs. Glenn's?  I also find Sophia Royal Princess too dark in the Woo, but in the Glenn they sounds wonderful, I would call them "modern" sounding tubes, bassy, with weight in the midrange, and slight treble roll off.  I recommend giving them a try, they are also the quietest tube I've tried since in Glenn, thanks to their substantial build.  The other quite tubes I tried are the Elrog 300B, but that one is unreliable and the sound signature on the bright/sterile side for my taste.


----------



## gibosi

musicman59 said:


> Yes, it is probably a rebranded Cossor and yes it is the fat bottle one.


 
  
 The Cossor is certainly one of my favorite rectifiers. But if one wants a sound that is not quite as lush, I wonder if a GEC U52 might be a better choice....


----------



## musicman59

khragon said:


> EML Mesh from my experience is too muddy for my taste, I can't imagine it in the warmer Woo.  How do you like EML Mesh in Woo vs. Glenn's?  I also find Sophia Royal Princess too dark in the Woo, but in the Glenn they sounds wonderful, I would call them "modern" sounding tubes, bassy, with weight in the midrange, and slight treble roll off.  I recommend giving them a try, they are also the quietest tube I've tried since in Glenn, thanks to their substantial build.  The other quite tubes I tried are the Elrog 300B, but that one is unreliable and the sound signature on the bright/sterile side for my taste.


 
 Yes, the Mesh are more neutral with Glenn's compared to the Woo. I had Elrog's before and I will not touch them again. They failed very fast and got them replaced through warranty. I sold the new ones as soon as I got them.


----------



## whirlwind

musicman59 said:


> rossliew said:
> 
> 
> > How does the Glenn 300B compare to your WA5 LE?
> ...


 
 Do you plan on keeping the WA5 LE ?


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> Do you plan on keeping the WA5 LE ?


 

 FYI - Apparently not, recent from the Woo Audio thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/newestpost/428570
  
 "Hi guys,
 My black WA5-LE v1 will go for sale tomorrow. It was costume made. Not only have the Teflon sockets and electronic parts upgrade it also have WBT Nextgen RCA sockets and all the internal wiring was done with Neotech OCC Cppoer wire and Cardas Eutectic solder. Will come with stock and upgraded tubes.
 Look for the ad or send me a PM if interested.
 Thanks."


----------



## whirlwind

Yeah, I see the WA5 LE is up for sale in the B/S/T forum.
  
 I guess musicman59 is kicked back and enjoying his new 300B amp about now.
  
 Hopefully he will post some impressions, but you can't blame him for just wanting to kick back and enjoy his music as that is what I would be doing.
  
 There is going to be a few week delay in my amp as Glenn had a little accident at work and broke his wrist...so he is in a cast for a bit.
  
 I have been listening with my Grado RS1 the last week, I don't give this headphone enough quality time that it deserves.
  
 I have it paired with a military 12SN7GT smoked glass from 1944......this tube is just a great match with these headphones....warm and lush which is great for the Grado's higher end treble.
  
  

  
  
  

  

  
  
 The 6/12/25 switch is one of the best upgrades that you can get on one of Glenns OTL amps IMO.
  
 I bought a few of these RCA 12SN7GT tubes about a year or so ago...paid peanuts for them......then found some RCA 1633 tubes for even less money, the 1633 tube is a 25 volt version , I bought a lot of six nos tubes for like $18
  
 I can see this combo making it through the month of April, no problem.


----------



## Rossliew

@whirlwind I'm just wondering if you'll have time for the otl once your el3n is ready


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> @whirlwind I'm just wondering if you'll have time for the otl once your el3n is ready


 
  
 Well, I would think so, but I guess I will have to wait and see, I will know in due time.
  
 I am hoping to have another headphone by the very end of this year or early next year that I think should be a wonderful pairing with the OTL.
  
 That being said I am sure it will pair well with the new amp also.
  
 Hell, I am quite content with my gear now, and I enjoy the heck out of my music now, then you say, man if that sounds better than this, then it must sound damn good, lol
  
 For what it is worth, I don't consider myself an audiophile....I am just someone who loves to listen to music and if it makes my head bob and my feet tap...then I am a pretty happy fellow. I never have looked for the ultimate sound, as I have always enjoyed many different flavors.  Don't get me wrong, I have my favorites tube combos and all of that, but I can be quite happy with a combo that that cost pennies compared to my favorites.  Rolling tubes really is not necessary in Glenn's OTL...it sounds wonderful with about $35 worth of tubes in my amp....rectifiers $5 each....Thomson powers sound good, especially after burn in...$10 each...1633 driver tube $ 5
 This is a great tube sound for really cheap, and one would really have no need to roll more tubes, even though I am sure most people do...The more expensive the tubes, the law of diminishing returns starts to become much more a factor.
  
 My wallet hopes I never want any more audio gear, but never say never, I guess.
  
 Will feel very fortunate to own two of Glenn's amps.
  
 Good times ahead for sure, and I am sure I will be enjoying my music immensely.


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn's amps do indeed sound good with modest tubes...i've had the fortunate experience of listening to his earlier OTL with some top tier rectifier/power/driver tubes and yes, i do say some of the more expensive ones did not justify their cost on more than one occasion...
  
 The EL3N is good as there is just no temptation for tube rolling rather it allows you to just sit back and listen to your favourite tunes without needing to wonder if the next combo of tubes sound better or otherwise. You are truly listening to music rather than tubes (if that makes sense LOL). Having said that, i have moved on to rolling DACs now LOL...i have the Hugo, Mojo, Gungnir DS, Audio Note 4.1, Bifrost MB and most recently a modest Parasound Z-DAC version 1. My oh my, the Z-Dac is holding the forte now and its pairing with all my amps and the HD600 is just sublime! Awesome is the word and i really can't imagine spending on more expensive DACs after this. Well, maybe a Naim V1 DAC just for the different flavour (or not)


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> I am hoping to have another headphone by the very end of this year or early next year that I think should be a wonderful pairing with the OTL.




Let me guess, an Atticus?


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I am hoping to have another headphone by the very end of this year or early next year that I think should be a wonderful pairing with the OTL.
> ...


 
  
 You are on point.


----------



## Seamaster

whirlwind said:


> You are on point.


 

 What is the difference between Atticus and Eikon? Well, their website does not really explain too much.


----------



## jelt2359

The Eikon is more neutral, leaner. I like it with a clearer more transparent amp. The Atticus is more lush, fun- better match with something delicate and sweet like the GEL3N.


----------



## Seamaster

jelt2359 said:


> The Eikon is more neutral, leaner. I like it with a clearer more transparent amp. The Atticus is more lush, fun- better match with something delicate and sweet like the GEL3N.


 

 Cool, thank you very much. I am currently using Fostex TH-X00 Ebony, those are fun and did not cost my a leg. I sold all my other headphones, did not really miss them. Well I am looking for a better version of TH-X00 Ebony I guess.


----------



## Khragon

Finally did it! 
  
 A clean cut of the PY500A tube to be use for HEXFRED base... Glenn I'm sending these out to you tomorrow.
 First time tried to remove the cap, not very nice, so tried again, a bit nicer.  No big deal since one set can go to @musicman59


----------



## whirlwind

seamaster said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > You are on point.
> ...


 
 Atticus Driver - TPE Membrane - Thermo-Plastic-Elastomer- Slightly elevated mid bass, smooth treble, slightly larger width to the soundstage compared to Eikon.
 Eikon Driver - Biocellulose Driver - More sub bass focused than Atticus, more treble presence,more rounded soundstage than Atticus....ZMF's most neutral headphone.
  
 Both headphones have dynamic drivers and 300 ohm impedance.
  
 I am pretty sure all of Zach's headphones are tuned with a little bit of extra bass, and it is very, very addicting on his ZMF Omni/Ori
  


jelt2359 said:


> The Eikon is more neutral, leaner. I like it with a clearer more transparent amp. The Atticus is more lush, fun- better match with something delicate and sweet like the GEL3N.


 
 I am very glad to hear this Jason.


----------



## jekjek

whirlwind said:


> Atticus Driver - TPE Membrane - Thermo-Plastic-Elastomer- Slightly elevated mid bass, smooth treble, slightly larger width to the soundstage compared to Eikon.
> Eikon Driver - Biocellulose Driver - More sub bass focused than Atticus, more treble presence,more rounded soundstage than Atticus....ZMF's most neutral headphone.
> 
> Both headphones have dynamic drivers and 300 ohm impedance.
> ...


 
 the ZMF is at 300 ohms, will it pose an impedance problem with the EL3N?


----------



## Rossliew

My EL3N works gorgeously with my Senn HD600 and Beyer T1 as well as with my Grados and Oppo PM2. Its transparent to your source as well as to your transducer whilst adding that little tinge of midrange magic


----------



## jelt2359

No. A good amp is a good amp. I really like the Eikon on my EC Studio, for example, which has <1 ohm output impedance. I believe the GEL3N is at 32 ohms.


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Atticus Driver - TPE Membrane - Thermo-Plastic-Elastomer- Slightly elevated mid bass, smooth treble, slightly larger width to the soundstage compared to Eikon.
> ...


 

 No it will just be easier to drive putting little load on the amp.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> No it will just be easier to drive putting little load on the amp.




More reason to buy GEL3N amplifier


----------



## whirlwind

Happy Easter to everyone.


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Easter to all


----------



## lukeap69

Happy Easter Joe, Glenn and all!


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> Happy Easter to everyone.


 
  
  


2359glenn said:


> Happy Easter to all


 
  
  


lukeap69 said:


> Happy Easter Joe, Glenn and all!


 
  
 Thank you and Happy Easter to everyone as well!


----------



## parbaked

Tube Depot has Phillips Holland Red Series EL3N on sale....$50...
  

  
 https://www.tubedepot.com/products/philips-holland-el3n-red-series


----------



## whirlwind

parbaked said:


> Tube Depot has Phillips Holland Red Series EL3N on sale....$50...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/philips-holland-el3n-red-series


 
 That regular price of $100 per tube is pretty steep.


----------



## gibosi

For sure, these are typically much less expensive on eBay. However, even ELN3 labeled as Philips could have been made in at least two different factories. And typically, tubes manufactured in different Philips subsidiaries sound different, so I would suggest that you ensure that both have the same production code.
  
 I am not in the market for these, so I haven't spent much time looking.... But a quick perusal on eBay reveals that some were manufactured by WIRAG (Wiener Radio Werke), a Philips subsidiary located in Vienna, Austria (factory code A), and some were manufactured by Loewe Opta, a Philips subsidiary located in Berlin, Germany (factory code G). And it is certainly possible that this tube could have been manufactured by Philips elsewhere. Further, it appears that the ELN3 was also manufactured by Tungsram (Hungary) and Visseaux (France).
  
 So again, a pair with matching codes would be best, or at a minimum, a pair made in the same factory.


----------



## jekjek

whirlwind said:


> That regular price of $100 per tube is pretty steep.



S
Market price is $25 to $35


----------



## 2359glenn

They used to sell them for $70 for a pair.
 The EL3N is a good sounding tube in the right circuit as good as some of the best tubes. PX4 or 45.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> For sure, these are typically much less expensive on eBay. However, even ELN3 labeled as Philips could have been made in at least two different factories. And typically, tubes manufactured in different Philips subsidiaries sound different, so I would suggest that you ensure that both have the same production code.
> 
> I am not in the market for these, so I haven't spent much time looking.... But a quick perusal on eBay reveals that some were manufactured by WIRAG (Wiener Radio Werke), a Philips subsidiary located in Vienna, Austria (factory code A), and some were manufactured by Loewe Opta, a Philips subsidiary located in Kronach, Germany (factory code G). And it is certainly possible that this tube could have been manufactured by Philips elsewhere. Further, it appears that the ELN3 was also manufactured by Tungsram (Hungary) and Visseaux (France).
> 
> So again, a pair with matching codes would be best, or at a minimum, a pair made in the same factory.




Maybe we can use EL3N in our GOTL Ken


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Maybe we can use EL3N in our GOTL Ken


 
  
 We can! Since the GOTL has a single 6SN7 socket, we simply need an adapter to allow a pair to be plugged into the one socket:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-EL3N-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191769639044
  
 However, I suspect that a 6SN7 socket isn't biased correctly for a pair of these and I have my doubts that it would be worth the extra time and expense. My thinking is that if someone really wants to run these tubes, it would be far better to get in the queue for a GEL3N.
  
 For me personally, I am up to my ears in 4-volt rectifiers which have been consuming all my spare time and money recently. lol


----------



## Rossliew

Ken, you can offload some of your 4 volt rectifiers to me


----------



## gibosi

You are so kind to offer... thank you... but like most collectors I am loathe to part with any of them... lol


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> … Loewe Opta, a Philips subsidiary located in Kronach, Germany …




There's some history here (in German):



 https://www.gfgf.org/Forum/index.php?t=msg&th=2303&goto=6214&#msg_6214

According to that, the tube factory was in Berlin-Steglitz.

The Kronach factory made (makes!) TVs.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> They used to sell them for $70 for a pair.
> The EL3N is a good sounding tube in the right circuit as good as some of the best tubes. PX4 or 45.


 
 Yes, this is exactly what I paid for mine also, Glenn.


jekjek said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > For sure, these are typically much less expensive on eBay. However, even ELN3 labeled as Philips could have been made in at least two different factories. And typically, tubes manufactured in different Philips subsidiaries sound different, so I would suggest that you ensure that both have the same production code.
> ...


 
 You can and if you want to try them I can sell you an adapter for them  for about half the cost of one from e-bay.


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> There's some history here (in German):
> 
> https://www.gfgf.org/Forum/index.php?t=msg&th=2303&goto=6214&#msg_6214
> 
> ...


 
  
 It is certainly confusing... The old Loewe Radio (renamed Loewe Opta after 1942) had factories in Berlin, Leipzig, Düsseldorf and Kronach. After the war, Düsseldorf and Kronach were in West Germany, but Leipzig was in East Germany (if I am reading the map correctly). And around 1960, the assets of Loewe Opta located in West Germany were acquired by Philips.
  
 I wonder if there was more than one Loewe factory in Berlin located on different sides of the wall? After the war, RFT came into possession of the assets belonging to Loewe Opta in East Berlin. A new company was formed at that location in 1948, Phonetika Radio, to produce vacuum tubes. In 1952, this factory was retooled to produce radio receivers and the vacuum tube manufacturing equipment was relocated to Mühlhausen.
  
 From 1937 until 1945, Mühlhausen was the site of a Lorenz vacuum tube facility established in support of the German war effort. However, immediately after the war, during the temporary two-month American occupation, all manufacturing equipment was either destroyed or removed, and the factory building was left empty. And then in 1952, the empty building was occupied by RFT and re-established as an vacuum tube factory using the old Loewe Opta equipment from East Berlin.
  
 The Kronach location was the headquarters of Philips Loewe Opta as well as the site of major manufacturing facilities. And since I am not sure exactly where the EL3N was manufactured, I default to Kronach. But the EL3N could well have been manufactured in Düsseldorf, Kronach or perhaps a facility located in West Berlin. More research is necessary.


----------



## jekjek

whirlwind said:


> Yes, this is exactly what I paid for mine also, Glenn.
> You can and if you want to try them I can sell you an adapter for them  for about half the cost of one from e-bay.



I have bought it as well but still waiting for my GOTL

How is the sound of EL3N with the adapter on GOTL?


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> I wonder if there was more than one Loewe factory in Berlin located on different sides of the wall? After the war, RFT came into possession of the assets belonging to Loewe Opta in East Berlin. A new company was formed at that location in 1948, Phonetika Radio, to produce vacuum tubes. In 1952, this factory was retooled to produce radio receivers and the vacuum tube manufacturing equipment was relocated to Mühlhausen.




Yes, that was the factory in Berlin-Weißensee.




gibosi said:


> The Kronach location was the headquarters of Philips Loewe Opta as well as the site of major manufacturing facilities. And since I am not sure exactly where the EL3N was manufactured, I default to Kronach. But the EL3N could well have been manufactured in Düsseldorf, Kronach or perhaps a facility located in West Berlin. More research is necessary.




Düsseldorf made radio receivers. TV sets were the main product in Kronach.


----------



## gibosi

Thanks! I will update my records.


----------



## jhljhl

musicman59 said:


> Here are some crape pictures from my phone. I will take better ones over the weekend.


 
  
  
 You're selling your wa5le. How does it sound in comparison? c3g makes for better transients.


----------



## whirlwind

jekjek said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, this is exactly what I paid for mine also, Glenn.
> ...


 
 The tubes sound great on Glenn's OTL....but those adapters from e-bay are made pretty darn cheap, to say the least....I would not be pulling the tubes in and out very often.


----------



## jekjek

Hi Glenn

I found some 6sq7 and 12sq7 metal base tubes. Can we use it in GOTL


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Hi Glenn
> 
> I found some 6sq7 and 12sq7 metal base tubes. Can we use it in GOTL


 
  
 With the right adapters you can use almost anything in the GOTL. 
  
 However, like the ABC1 and 6AV6, this is a double diode / single triode. It was designed to function as a radio receiver detector, amplifier and automatic volume control in one bottle. However, the triode is essentially half of a 12AX7, so too much gain. As Glenn suggested earlier, the 6BF6, another double diode / single triode might be a better choice as it has less gain, similar to a 12AU7. You will need two of them, ground the diodes and have fun.


----------



## jekjek

Thanks Ken.
I will put this up in Epay


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn, can I use the 274B rectifier with the EL3N amp? And can any 5 volt rectifier be used without fear as well?


----------



## whirlwind

rossliew said:


> Glenn, can I use the 274B rectifier with the EL3N amp? And can any 5 volt rectifier be used without fear as well?


 
  
 I think you can use most 5 volt rectifiers, but there may be a few exceptions, like Brimar 5Z4GY, it may not be up to the task, at least I believe this to be the case with the GOTL.


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> I think you can use most 5 volt rectifiers, but there may be a few exceptions, like Brimar 5Z4GY, it may not be up to the task, at least I believe this to be the case with the GOTL.




Thanks. Was thinking of getting some inexpensive rectifiers to try out. Although I'm happy with the hexfred holding active duty, I'm itching to roll some tubes seeing it's less of a hassle to just roll the rectifier.


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I think you can use most 5 volt rectifiers, but there may be a few exceptions, like Brimar 5Z4GY, it may not be up to the task, at least I believe this to be the case with the GOTL.
> ...


 

 Did Jason give you the 3DG4 rectifier he liked that better then the HEXFRED they are quite cheep to buy if you don't have it.


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Glenn, can I use the 274B rectifier with the EL3N amp? And can any 5 volt rectifier be used without fear as well?


 
  
 According to Glenn, in his EL3N, you can use any 5-volt rectifier that can provide at least 100ma. Personally, I think I would bump that up to around 120ma to provide just a bit more headroom.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/14145#post_12861553
  
 The 274B is more than adequate. In fact, any rectifier safe for use in the GOTL is more than adequate. And given that the 5Z4GY can provide 125ma, it too would be fine in the GEL3N.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> rossliew said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, can I use the 274B rectifier with the EL3N amp? And can any 5 volt rectifier be used without fear as well?
> ...


 
 Oh man, that would be great news about the Brimar 5Z4GY....being that it has a very good price point .
  
 Thanks Ken.


----------



## 2359glenn

The EL3N amp can use almost any 5 volt rectifier and the 3.3 volt 3DG4 with no adapter. Plus most all 4 volt rectifiers
 with a adapter that drops the 5 volts to 4.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> The EL3N amp can use almost any 5 volt rectifier and the 3.3 volt 3DG4 with no adapter. Plus most all 4 volt rectifiers
> with a adapter that drops the 5 volts to 4.


 

 Glenn, the 3DG4 is rated at 3.3 (vf) +/- 10%, is this tube still OK to use with 5v without causing premature wear & tear?


----------



## gibosi

ru4music said:


> Glenn, the 3DG4 is rated at 3.3 (vf) +/- 10%, is this tube still OK to use with 5v without causing premature wear & tear?


 
  
 The pinout of the 3DG4 is different than a 5U4, and therefore, Glenn has wired the socket in such a way, that if a 3DG4 is inserted, the rectifier will get 3 volts. And if a 5U4 is inserted, the rectifier will get 5 volts. Clever.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> ru4music said:
> 
> 
> > Glenn, the 3DG4 is rated at 3.3 (vf) +/- 10%, is this tube still OK to use with 5v without causing premature wear & tear?
> ...


 
 Yes, very clever....Glenn is awesome when it comes to stuff like this.


----------



## ru4music

gibosi said:


> The pinout of the 3DG4 is different than a 5U4, and therefore, Glenn has wired the socket in such a way, that if a 3DG4 is inserted, the rectifier will get 3 volts. And if a 5U4 is inserted, the rectifier will get 5 volts. Clever.


 

 Will Glenn's wizardry ever cease to amaze us!


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Did Jason give you the 3DG4 rectifier he liked that better then the HEXFRED they are quite cheep to buy if you don't have it.




Yes he did. But I personally prefer the Hexfred to the 3DG4.




gibosi said:


> According to Glenn, in his EL3N, you can use any 5-volt rectifier that can provide at least 100ma. Personally, I think I would bump that up to around 120ma to provide just a bit more headroom.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/14145#post_12861553
> 
> The 274B is more than adequate. In fact, any rectifier safe for use in the GOTL is more than adequate. And given that the 5Z4GY can provide 125ma, it too would be fine in the GEL3N.




Wonderful! Time to get some brandless rectifiers to try out..hopefully I can find a small gem in there..




2359glenn said:


> The EL3N amp can use almost any 5 volt rectifier and the 3.3 volt 3DG4 with no adapter. Plus most all 4 volt rectifiers
> with a adapter that drops the 5 volts to 4.




That gives us a very versatile amp indeed! All thanks to Glenn's audio wizardry


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, the AZ4 uses that wacky European side contact base. So in order for his amp to use both, Glenn would have to install two rectifier sockets, one octal and one side contact base. But as I mentioned above, the easiest solution to allow the use of 4-volt European rectifiers is to use inexpensive adapters as I am doing.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/191955967286


 
 Ken have you had any trouble with these adapters.
  
 I like the idea of two rectifier sockets, but not sure this could be done or if there would be room for it...but it is a great idea.
  
 I would like it better than having to use an adapter, just not sure if Glenn could pull it off.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Ken have you had any trouble with these adapters.
> 
> I like the idea of two rectifier sockets, but not sure this could be done or if there would be room for it...but it is a great idea.
> 
> I would like it better than having to use an adapter, just not sure if Glenn could pull it off.


 
  
 The AZ4 fits pretty tightly in the adapter and sometimes it can be a hassle to extract the tube. The problem is that you are holding the adapter with one hand and trying to pull the tube out with the other. I suspect that if the AZ4 socket was installed in the amp, you could hold the tube with both hands, providing a bit more leverage, which should make it a bit easier.
  
 If you think you are going to have at most two or three AZ4s, buying an adapter for each of them, "permanently" installed, could be a solution to this problem. But of course, at about $20 each, buying a bunch of adapters could get pretty expensive...
  
 The major problem I see with having two rectifier sockets, octal and side-contact, installed in the amp is the fact that 4-volt rectifiers can be found with at least four different bases. So with this arrangement, if you want to roll rectifiers with a European 4 pin base, a German octal base or a British Mazda octal base, you will still need adapters. Or perhaps five rectifier sockets? lol


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Ken have you had any trouble with these adapters.
> ...


 
 I think the adapters for any tube that does not take the wonky side contact adapters would be find....I just find the side contact adapters to be a pain.


----------



## gibosi

Testing the new site...  posting pics is different, but still doable.....


----------



## gibosi

But unfortunately, there appears to be no way to search this thread... or any other thread....


----------



## 2359glenn

So far I don't like the new format


----------



## gibosi

Me neither...  but it appears that the folks who run Head-Fi didn't have the option of doing nothing ... And they didn't have much time either...

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/new-head-fi-update.845500/page-8#post-13453302

And as result they now have an awful lot of very unhappy members....

I wish them luck as try to make the site easier for us to use....


----------



## leftside

Just a couple of pics for now. I'll post more pics and my thoughts after more listening and after the site has "recovered" a little. As of now I'm a very happy member of the "Glenn Club" 



 

This thing is big! Picture taken next to an Allnic HPA3000 and a McIntosh 7270 in the background:


----------



## 2359glenn

Are you sure how to adjust the bias? It looks so a TAK about 80 ma


----------



## whirlwind

Well, at least I can post now, lol.

So far I am not liking the new format either, I suppose it will get better with time.

Nice pics leftside.

I just bought a 596 Ken, from a member here on the forums.
Glenn is making me an adapter and is also going to send me a couple of other rectifiers, so i will be set once my amp is completed.

At some point I will grab a mesh plate rectifier.

Jason & Glenn both told me the 3DG4 is great!


----------



## gibosi (Apr 27, 2017)

The 596 is one of my favorite 5-volt rectifiers. I am using an inexpensive Chinese-made adapter. The wire connections don't fit all that well, but well enough. 

And speaking about rectifiers, I got a really neat one in today's mail. 

This is a Philips 1815. It can provide at most 180ma, perfectly adequate for the GEL3N or the GOTL with four 6BX7. But it is *not* powerful enough for two 6AS7.

It is a 4-volt rectifier with a B-4 base, so an adapter is absolutely necessary.

This is a pretty big tube, about 6 inches, or 15cm, tall. The 1815 was first introduced and manufactured in 1933 at Philips' Eindhoven plant in Holland. I assume that this is an earlier one from the 1930's, as I also have a later one manufactured in the 1940's (before 1948).

(I took a picture of both tubes, side by side, but this new site wouldn't let me post it. The error message said "The uploaded file is too large for the server to process.) 



This later 1815 is a bit shorter, only about 5 inches, or 12.5cm tall.



If you like the Philips' Holland sound, these are very nice rectifiers.


----------



## SonicTrance

Beautiful tube, the big one. I like the little clamp near the base. Never seen that before.


----------



## gibosi

This picture helps to explain that clamp. It would appear that the weight of the plates and glass insulators required extra support to keep everything stable and rigid.


----------



## 2359glenn

Early American tubes had that clamp too the 281 , 210 , 250 had this clamp.
All those tubes had a large plate.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Are you sure how to adjust the bias? It looks so a TAK about 80 ma


Should it be lower or higher for the Taks? With the bias at 0 I couldn't hear anything, so adjusted it higher without taking it to "the max".


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes the TAK run about 80ma you can run them at 70 if it don't degrade the sound and you might get
longer life out of them.
Bias at 0 there is no current in the tube it is at cutoff.


----------



## whirlwind

The plates on that tall 1815 are huge!

The clamp is very interesting.


----------



## leftside

I love the Glenn 300B  

The amp is very revealing, fresh, clean and airy. I've been comparing to the WA22, and there are differences. The WA22 is more laid back and a little warmer and still sounds fabulous, but the Glenn edges it in the clarity and soundstage and of course that wonderful "freshness". 

A couple of things to note: my WA22 is fully maxed out with some of the best NOS tubes (Cossor 53 KU, Mullard ECC32's and 4 * 6BL7's) and I've spent a lot of time, effort and money finding good tube combos for that amp. For the Glenn, I'm running NOS Valvo rectifiers, NOS Siemen C3g "Post" gold pins and brand new Tak 300B's. The Glenn and the tubes probably still need time to break-in.

It's superb with a DAC and intoxicating with vinyl - matching this with a turntable setup is a marriage made in heaven. 

The craftsmanship on the amp is truly outstanding. Such a solid beast.


----------



## Khragon

Congrats! photos please!


----------



## leftside

A couple are on the previous page  More to follow soon after I've done some rearranging...


----------



## Khragon

New GUI is so hard to use, didn't see your previous posts.. Looks very nice! Kinda wish I went for 100mA meters, mine 200mA is hard to be precise


----------



## whirlwind

Posting pics seems to be working fine for me so far.

When I got off of work yesterday, this was waiting for me.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> But unfortunately, there appears to be no way to search this thread... or any other thread....



Google search with search term _site:head-fi.org_ has always worked better…


----------



## gibosi

Oskari said:


> Google search with search term _site:head-fi.org_ has always worked better…



And this Head-fi page works fairly well:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/search/14570/?searchform=1&

However, I haven't figured out how to navigate to this page. For now, I have saved it as a bookmark.


----------



## gibosi (Apr 29, 2017)

whirlwind said:


> Posting pics seems to be working fine for me so far.
> 
> When I got off of work yesterday, this was waiting for me.



Looks great! Now all you need is an amp to plug it in to!


----------



## 2359glenn

It's coming soon!!


----------



## jekjek

whirlwind said:


> Posting pics seems to be working fine for me so far.
> 
> When I got off of work yesterday, this was waiting for me.


Congrats on your new amp
And i just noticed on the new headfi website layout


----------



## leftside

I've got a few C3g tubes. Any way to remove the black cover/coating without damaging the tube? Just use a sharp knife?


----------



## jekjek

leftside said:


> I've got a few C3g tubes. Any way to remove the black cover/coating without damaging the tube? Just use a sharp knife?


I have removed all the cover for my c3g tubes using a small plier. You have to go slow to peel the cover


----------



## gibosi

Personally, I prefer that my C3g remain fully clothed. 

But if this is something you really want to do, several years ago, over in the Little Dot rolling thread, Hypnos1 posted a quick little show and tell with pictures on how to remove the cans:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/l...e-rolling-guide.563884/page-379#post-10412030


----------



## Khragon

> I have removed all the cover for my c3g tubes using a small plier. You have to go slow to peel the cover



How do you quote? I got an error and need to quote manually.

+1 on the plier, don't use knife, you'll cut yourself.  I use a flat noise plier, works wonderfully.  Don't remove too many, I noticed additional noise with c3g cover removed.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Personally, I prefer that my C3g remain fully clothed.
> 
> But if this is something you really want to do, several years ago, over in the Little Dot rolling thread, Hypnos1 posted a quick little show and tell with pictures on how to remove the cans:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/l...e-rolling-guide.563884/page-379#post-10412030


Agree with Ken
Those tubes are safer with the can 
I have broken 2 c3g tubes when i remove the cans


----------



## whirlwind

Khragon said:


> How do you quote? I got an error and need to quote manually.
> 
> +1 on the plier, don't use knife, you'll cut yourself.  I use a flat noise plier, works wonderfully.  Don't remove too many, I noticed additional noise with c3g cover removed.



Yes, that shield cover is to help prevent noise...I leave mine covered so I can take advantage of the shield.


----------



## leftside

Good info - thanks guys. I was busy this weekend, but did manage to find 2 hours last night for some listening. Truly wonderful amp. I'm just waiting for some new cables to arrive to assist with the new arrangement in the music room, and then I'll post some more pictures.


----------



## gibosi

FYI...  This worked for me in this post...



Khragon said:


> How do you quote? I got an error and need to quote manually.
> 
> .......





x RELIC x said:


> ......... for general postings press the +Quote button and then in the area where you compose your reply press the Insert Quotes button......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Good info - thanks guys. I was busy this weekend, but did manage to find 2 hours last night for some listening. Truly wonderful amp. I'm just waiting for some new cables to arrive to assist with the new arrangement in the music room, and then I'll post some more pictures.


I don't recommend removing the shield off the C3g it is grounded through the center guide pin
to block noise and hum.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> I don't recommend removing the shield off the C3g it is grounded through the center guide pin
> to block noise and hum.



But the tubes are so beautiful de-cover...   I learned the noise the hard way.. "ruined" my C3g/S pair, so start out with an older set if you have multiple.


----------



## Khragon

gibosi said:


> FYI...  This worked for me in this post...



I figured out why, it's because I'm in mobile site setting, switching back to desktop site allow me to quote.  The new design is not very good imho.


----------



## jelt2359

Does anyone know if the Lundahl Glenn OTL can run the 6336C tubes? The hugeeee and hot ones


----------



## gibosi

I think you are referring to the Russian 6C33C? If so, I doubt that you can run a pair of these in your OTL.

This tube is very different than a 6AS7, or even a 6336 / 6528. Among the many differences, a pair of these require something like 13A to heat, compared to 10A for a pair of 6336 / 6528. I am quite sure that neither the original nor the Lundahl transformer have the capacity to heat a pair.

Perhaps Glenn will tell us if he ever considered using the 6C33C in an OTL...


----------



## Gibson59 (May 4, 2017)

Ok I'm officially leaning towards a Glenn amp.  I had been very close to purchasing a Woo WA22 but these seem less finicky with tubes and better overall quality for your hard earned money. I'll be pairing it with a Schiit Bitfrost Multibit (SE out only) DAC and my HE1000 v2 and Sony Z1R headphones. I really enjoy tubes and finding the perfect match for my sound preferences, but I really don't intend on continued tune rolling beyond achieving that. I'm looking for a low maintenence option that will be relatively straightforward to get set up properly with tubes. My only concern is the two headphones I have demand different power. The Z1R can be driven by anything but the HE1000 love a lot of juice. I don't need any extra UV meters or anything extra like that. I'd like all my investment to go towards sound quality.

Any specific recommendations for Glenn amp configurations I should be looking for based on my needs?

With just enough tube rolling to achieve an ideal sound (I know his is subjective and kind of a hard question) roughly how much can I expect to invest in this amp and tubes?

Also wondering on average how long you guys have waited for your amp builds?

I sent Glenn a PM, but I'd love to hear from all of you as well who are using the amps. Especially if anyone is using either of my two headphones.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I think you are referring to the Russian 6C33C? If so, I doubt that you can run a pair of these in your OTL.
> 
> This tube is very different than a 6AS7, or even a 6336 / 6528. Among the many differences, a pair of these require something like 13A to heat, compared to 10A for a pair of 6336 / 6528. I am quite sure that neither the original nor the Lundahl transformer have the capacity to heat a pair.
> 
> Perhaps Glenn will tell us if he ever considered using the 6C33C in an OTL...





jelt2359 said:


> Does anyone know if the Lundahl Glenn OTL can run the 6336C tubes? The hugeeee and hot ones





gibosi said:


> I think you are referring to the Russian 6C33C? If so, I doubt that you can run a pair of these in your OTL.
> 
> This tube is very different than a 6AS7, or even a 6336 / 6528. Among the many differences, a pair of these require something like 13A to heat, compared to 10A for a pair of 6336 / 6528. I am quite sure that neither the original nor the Lundahl transformer have the capacity to heat a pair.
> 
> Perhaps Glenn will tell us if he ever considered using the 6C33C in an OTL...




My Lundahl is 13 amp, so I do not think it would work, but I would wait for Glenn to respond to be certain, Jason.
My amp will do 6336 tubes with no problem, but that is only 10 amp for the pair.


----------



## whirlwind (May 4, 2017)

weissja36 said:


> Ok I'm officially leaning towards a Glenn amp.  I had been very close to purchasing a Woo WA22 but these seem less finicky with tubes and better overall quality for your hard earned money. I'll be pairing it with a Schiit Bitfrost Multibit (SE out only) DAC and my HE1000 v2 and Sony Z1R headphones. I really enjoy tubes and finding the perfect match for my sound preferences, but I really don't intend on continued tune rolling beyond achieving that. I'm looking for a low maintenence option that will be relatively straightforward to get set up properly with tubes. My only concern is the two headphones I have demand different power. The Z1R can be driven by anything but the HE1000 love a lot of juice. I don't need any extra UV meters or anything extra like that. I'd like all my investment to go towards sound quality.
> 
> Any specific recommendations for Glenn amp configurations I should be looking for based on my needs?
> 
> ...



A couple of pages back there is a pic of one of Glenns 300B amps that he recently made for someone.

This person also owns a WA22, so he could probably tell you about both of these amps.

I have not heard either of those headphones, but I am sure Glenn can steer you in a positive way.

He makes wonderful amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

weissja36 said:


> Ok I'm officially leaning towards a Glenn amp.  I had been very close to purchasing a Woo WA22 but these seem less finicky with tubes and better overall quality for your hard earned money. I'll be pairing it with a Schiit Bitfrost Multibit (SE out only) DAC and my HE1000 v2 and Sony Z1R headphones. I really enjoy tubes and finding the perfect match for my sound preferences, but I really don't intend on continued tune rolling beyond achieving that. I'm looking for a low maintenence option that will be relatively straightforward to get set up properly with tubes. My only concern is the two headphones I have demand different power. The Z1R can be driven by anything but the HE1000 love a lot of juice. I don't need any extra UV meters or anything extra like that. I'd like all my investment to go towards sound quality.
> 
> Any specific recommendations for Glenn amp configurations I should be looking for based on my needs?
> 
> ...



This is the amp for you EL3N


----------



## leftside

Probably better to compare the Glenn 300B to the WA5 and not the WA22. I actually found someone in Vancouver with a WA5 and they came around to my house this week for a little shoot-out. I think they are going to sign-up here and contact Glenn  It was a really fun evening comparing different headphones and gear. I was surprised how different the pre-fazor LCD-3 sounds compared to the fazor LCD-3. We both much preferred the fazor on all amps.


----------



## Khragon

leftside said:


> Probably better to compare the Glenn 300B to the WA5 and not the WA22. I actually found someone in Vancouver with a WA5 and they came around to my house this week for a little shoot-out. I think they are going to sign-up here and contact Glenn  It was a really fun evening comparing different headphones and gear. I was surprised how different the pre-fazor LCD-3 sounds compared to the fazor LCD-3. We both much preferred the fazor on all amps.



Looking forward to the comparisons


----------



## leftside

Well I don't really have anything much to add that hasn't been said before. As much as I wanted the WA22 to sound better or at least as good as the WA5 I had to concede defeat. The WA5 just had a little more punch and felt a little more effortless. There wasn't a huge difference though. The WA22 with 5998's, 4 * 6BL7's power and or the ECCxx tubes certainly gave the WA5 a run for its money. The WA5 had early production Sylvania 6SN7 and EML 300B mesh. We both agreed the WA5 sounded better with all my ECCxx tubes.

"Obviously" the Glenn beat them all  But, so it should. It is custom built by "the master"  I'd say the difference between the Glenn and the WA5 was bigger than the difference between the WA5 and the WA22 - and my Glenn and tubes only have a few hours on them so far. I enjoyed listening to all 3 amps. Sometimes, it took me quite a few A/B swaps/listens before I could hear differences. All 3 amps were driven at the same time by my preamp - so comparing simply required a press of the button on the remote. This made for very quick comparisons.

I'm finding the Glenn to really shine with vinyl. It seems to open up the sound a little more.


----------



## Khragon

leftside said:


> ...
> I'm finding the Glenn to really shine with vinyl. It seems to open up the sound a little more.



Oh no, you didn't mention the wallet crunching vinyl, niw I can't het thr thoughts out of my head...  

Did you use the same tubes for Glenn vs WA5 comparison?


----------



## leftside (May 5, 2017)

Ha - my wallet has already been crushed by vinyl (turntable, cart, phono stage + the vinyl itself...). Since I purchased my DAC this year I've been selling a few vinyl albums though.

Yes - forgot to mention the 300B tube comparison! I don't tend to hear as much differences with tubes though as I do with amps. This is partly due to how long it takes to swap out the tubes - and my brain tends to forget the small details. I'm also not too sure if it's a fair comparison. The Taks are brand new and the EML Mesh had at least 500 hours on them. Both sounded great in both amps though. Even without being broken in properly I had to give the edge to the Taks in regard to the overall airiness, detail and openness. Perhaps a little more accurate as well. I think I preferred the bass on the EML's, but I have a feeling that with a few more hours on them the Taks will catch up. I'm trying not to think about tube rolling 300B's though....


----------



## jelt2359

gibosi said:


> I think you are referring to the Russian 6C33C? If so, I doubt that you can run a pair of these in your OTL.
> 
> This tube is very different than a 6AS7, or even a 6336 / 6528. Among the many differences, a pair of these require something like 13A to heat, compared to 10A for a pair of 6336 / 6528. I am quite sure that neither the original nor the Lundahl transformer have the capacity to heat a pair.
> 
> Perhaps Glenn will tell us if he ever considered using the 6C33C in an OTL...





whirlwind said:


> My Lundahl is 13 amp, so I do not think it would work, but I would wait for Glenn to respond to be certain, Jason.
> My amp will do 6336 tubes with no problem, but that is only 10 amp for the pair.



Thanks everyone. Glenn has responded. Definitely not possible! We need four for this OTL design because they are single triodes not dual. That would be 26A.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Well I don't really have anything much to add that hasn't been said before. As much as I wanted the WA22 to sound better or at least as good as the WA5 I had to concede defeat. The WA5 just had a little more punch and felt a little more effortless. There wasn't a huge difference though. The WA22 with 5998's, 4 * 6BL7's power and or the ECCxx tubes certainly gave the WA5 a run for its money. The WA5 had early production Sylvania 6SN7 and EML 300B mesh. We both agreed the WA5 sounded better with all my ECCxx tubes.
> 
> "Obviously" the Glenn beat them all  But, so it should. It is custom built by "the master"  I'd say the difference between the Glenn and the WA5 was bigger than the difference between the WA5 and the WA22 - and my Glenn and tubes only have a few hours on them so far. I enjoyed listening to all 3 amps. Sometimes, it took me quite a few A/B swaps/listens before I could hear differences. All 3 amps were driven at the same time by my preamp - so comparing simply required a press of the button on the remote. This made for very quick comparisons.
> 
> I'm finding the Glenn to really shine with vinyl. It seems to open up the sound a little more.




This is saying quite a lot about Glenns 300B.  That the difference between Glenns amp and the WA5 was greater than the difference between the WA5 and the WA22.

Have heard this from a select few people now.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'd still love to find out with my own ears if these EL3N setups actually do sound like a 45.  Pretty remarkable if it's completely true.

I recently did a cable upgrade to my Ethers, a Norne Solv X from Trevor, and I consider my system to be truly complete now.  It sounds exactly how I want it to, and I don't have enough of an imagination to picture anything better really.  I'm still to this moment more than a little stunned that the cable made such a big difference.  The improvement was nearly as large as my DAC upgrade was.  I'm sure some people will scoff at me for saying that, but I trust what my ears tell me.  The best change?  Absolutely no grain/glare/hardness in the sound anymore.  Anywhere.  At any volume.  I had no idea your cables affected that aspect of the sound this much, but apparently they do.  At least good ones anyway.


----------



## Rossliew (May 5, 2017)

I've not heard a 45 tube amp before but i can attest the EL3N does indeed sound sublime! Well worth the entry price. An exercise in simplicity and hassle-free listening without need to tube roll at all. Save your pennies for cable/DAC/source rolling instead ;p

And i listen with the EL3N mostly as a "power" amp, paired with either my Little Dot MK III/NAD3020 vintage amp as pre-amps. Makes the overall sound that much more dynamic and engaging.


----------



## whirlwind (May 6, 2017)

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'd still love to find out with my own ears if these EL3N setups actually do sound like a 45.  Pretty remarkable if it's completely true.
> 
> I recently did a cable upgrade to my Ethers, a Norne Solv X from Trevor, and I consider my system to be truly complete now.  It sounds exactly how I want it to, and I don't have enough of an imagination to picture anything better really.  I'm still to this moment more than a little stunned that the cable made such a big difference.  The improvement was nearly as large as my DAC upgrade was.  I'm sure some people will scoff at me for saying that, but I trust what my ears tell me.  The best change?  Absolutely no grain/glare/hardness in the sound anymore.  Anywhere.  At any volume.  I had no idea your cables affected that aspect of the sound this much, but apparently they do.  At least good ones anyway.




I have never heard a 45 amp, Tyrell.

Glenn  says that it  does and he even says that it is very close to his 300B, but just not powerful enough to power speakers.

I know this all sounds pretty hard to believe, for me too... but I indeed trust Glenns opinion and his ears and after all he has built all of these amps and has listened to everyone of them.....thats is way more than good enough for me to try one.

Can't wait to hear my planars on this amp.....I should send my planars to Glenn to have a listen when the amp is complete.


----------



## ru4music

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'd still love to find out with my own ears if these EL3N setups actually do sound like a 45.  Pretty remarkable if it's completely true.
> 
> I recently did a *cable upgrade* to my Ethers, a Norne Solv X from Trevor, and I consider my system to be truly complete now.  It sounds exactly how I want it to, and I don't have enough of an imagination to picture anything better really.  I'm still to this moment more than a little stunned that the cable made such a big difference.  The improvement was nearly as large as my DAC upgrade was.  I'm sure some people will scoff at me for saying that, but I trust what my ears tell me.  The best change?  Absolutely *no grain/glare/hardness* in the sound anymore.  Anywhere.  At any volume.  I had no idea your cables affected that aspect of the sound this much, but apparently they do.  At least good ones anyway.



Yes, headphone cables can make a huge difference in SQ!  I run a UP-OCC copper cable on my Senn 800HDs, it's not what they do, it's what they don't do to the sound.


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'd still love to find out with my own ears if these EL3N setups actually do sound like a 45.  Pretty remarkable if it's completely true.
> 
> I recently did a cable upgrade to my Ethers, a Norne Solv X from Trevor, and I consider my system to be truly complete now.  It sounds exactly how I want it to, and I don't have enough of an imagination to picture anything better really.  I'm still to this moment more than a little stunned that the cable made such a big difference.  The improvement was nearly as large as my DAC upgrade was.  I'm sure some people will scoff at me for saying that, but I trust what my ears tell me.  The best change?  Absolutely no grain/glare/hardness in the sound anymore.  Anywhere.  At any volume.  I had no idea your cables affected that aspect of the sound this much, but apparently they do.  At least good ones anyway.





ru4music said:


> Yes, headphone cables can make a huge difference in SQ!  I run a UP-OCC copper cable on my Senn 800HDs, it's not what they do, it's what they don't do to the sound.



I have a Norne Draug 2 on my HD800.

It is better than the stock HD800 cable, but I would not say it is leaps and bounds better


----------



## ru4music (May 6, 2017)

whirlwind said:


> I have a Norne Draug 2 on my HD800.
> 
> It is better than the stock HD800 cable, but I would not say it is leaps and bounds better


Agreed, the HD800 stock cable is good, but that slight reduction in glare and improved resolution sometimes make all the difference in the listening experience.  At times (for me) that difference is the hair standing up on the back of my neck and forearms.  Fun fact - did you know that the hair follicles on you forearms are link to the audio sensory of your ears (i.e. you hear with your hair)???


----------



## Xcalibur255

Trevor's Solv X really clobbers the DUM cable I bought with my Ethers.  I truly was not expecting a change of this magnitude.  It doesn't sound like I expected it to either.  I guess the best way to put it was I didn't know this was the sound I was looking for until I heard it, but I'm in love with it now.  Whenever I switch to anything else it sounds completely dead and lifeless, like my ears are stuffed with cotton.  But when I'm listening to the Ethers with the Solv X the music does not sound bright or boosted in response in the treble or upper mid range.  On the contrary it actually is smoother and more mellow, but also more "free" so to speak and less bottled up.  The entire high end became less aggressive while simultaneously gaining more presence.

It's witchcraft is what it is.  Like those old RPGs with the sword that had both fire and ice enchantments on it at the same time.  

I am so much more aware of the room or space the music was recorded in now.  It tells you so much about why a recording sounds the way it does.  This was the last layer of information I always felt like I was missing before.


----------



## leftside

What different rectifiers have you tried with the Glenn 300B? I tried the RCA's, but they were quite noisy. The amp generated a bit of a hum that I could hear through the headphones. The IEC/Mullard and Valvo were very quiet. I couldn't tell too much difference in the sound quality between any of them.


----------



## Khragon

leftside said:


> What different rectifiers have you tried with the Glenn 300B? I tried the RCA's, but they were quite noisy. The amp generated a bit of a hum that I could hear through the headphones. The IEC/Mullard and Valvo were very quiet. I couldn't tell too much difference in the sound quality between any of them.



Best one would be HEXFRED, I'm using telefunken, but I think these are hit or miss...


----------



## Otheronek

So how does one go about getting a quote for a _glenn amp ... and what would be a good amp for 400i and DT1990 hps.. thanks  OOK_


----------



## Rossliew

Send a PM to Glenn here. All his amps are wonderful sounding and very versatile. If u like tube rolling perhaps keep an eye out for his OTL designs. U want simple plug and play then the EL3N is wonderful sounding. If u want power and expensive tube rolling perhaps the 300B may tickle ur fancy


----------



## leftside

There will be no tube rolling in my Glenn 300B. I'm sticking to the tubes I have. 

This might be a daft question, but here goes anyway. Do people just let the amp/tubes break-in naturally (i.e. by simply listening) or do you connect a CD or computer via a DAC/preamp and play a song on repeat to do the break-in? Do the headphones need to be connected to "trigger" all the circuitry or can they be left unconnected to the amp during the break-in phase?


----------



## Rossliew

I just listen when i can and not be too bothered about burn in...after all your ears/brain will adjust to the sonic signature over time..that's just me


----------



## leftside

Yeah that's what I've been doing. Even during "pre-break-in" it's been keeping me up way too late at night. Just one more tune...

The only time I've noticed a considerable difference in sound after break-in was when I purchased a pair of new speakers a few years ago.


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn's amps tend to be bad for your health with too much late night listening sessions lol


----------



## Khragon (May 14, 2017)

Happy Mother's Day to all... enjoying my Glenn 300B this morning.

I wanted to share my solution to some vibration induced hum I've been experiencing with the amp.
I added a number of weights purchased from Amazon, and using them to weight down the amp, especially on top of the transformers.  I find these help a lot, reducing a loud 60hz hum that been bothering me for some time now.

My configuration is:
3x 5kg on top of the transfomers
2x 1kg on the side near the 300B
2x ~1.5lb brass in the center
2x ~0.75 brass on the center sides
The smaller ones I purchased from mapleshade which is what got me started down this road as I found the weight did help just needed more mass, but you don't need them, they're more expensive than the one from Amazon.

All these weights need cork pads as feet, or else the metal to metal contact may make the vibration worse, which took me a while to identify.

I replaced the feet with mapleshade threaded feet (need to drill the center front hole myself).
And went all out with mapleshade 4" block, I'm not sure how helpful this is, I think the weights contributed the most of the hum reduction.

Some photos so you guys know what I'm talking about.


  


If you're struggling with hum, I would try it.  Buy from Amazon so you can return the weights if they don't turn out well.  I think the main cause of this is the steel case, steel isn't a good vibration damper as aluminium.

Hope it help you, my Utopia never been so enjoyable now with most the hum gone.  The remaining hums I believed are tube related, and will report back when I get HEXFRED adapter from Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

You might try dampers on the C3g's they tend to be micro phonic and pick up vibrations.


----------



## Khragon (May 15, 2017)

You mean over the cover? Or after removing the cover?


----------



## leftside

I found the RCA rectifiers produced a bit of a hum with my 300B. Mullard's and Valvo are fine.


----------



## 2359glenn

Over the cover removing the cover causes more noise.
The tube was made to be run with the cover on!!!


----------



## lukeap69

Do these look legit?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/282464236969


----------



## gibosi

They look legit to me. And the price is good too.


----------



## lukeap69

Thanks Ken. I will try to offer at a slightly lower price...


----------



## gibosi

These tubes often go for $400 to $500 for a pair. At $215 for a pair, manufactured in the same year, 1961, I am very surprised they are still there!


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> These tubes often go for $400 to $500 for a pair. At $215 for a pair, manufactured in the same year, 1961, I am very surprised they are still there!




Yeah, me too....someone should just hit the buy it now button


----------



## attmci (May 15, 2017)

lukeap69 said:


> Do these look legit?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/282464236969



Sure. But I believe the price is for one tube.

They had been on e-bay for a while.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Sure. But I believe the price is for one tube.
> 
> They had been on e-bay for a while.



Really?

~~~~~~~

"GEC 6AS7G A1834 NOS pair 2 tubes"

"Pair 6AS7 GEC tubes. Tested on my digital Tube Tester.

Tube 1
First Plate A1-131.3mA S1-11,3mA/V    Second Plate A2-108,5mA  S2-10.0mA/V
Tube 2
First Plate A1 116.5mA S1-10.8mA/V    Second Plate A2-93.8mA     S2- 8.7mA/V 

100%  g1 = -20v, Anode Voltage = 80V = 120mA,

Tube Code SAZ, and SBZ.
They are never used, from Laboratory stock, with own box(not GEC branded)."

~~~~~~~~~~~~

In standard English this states that the price is for one pair. But of course, it is possible that the vendor is not a native English speaker and is selling these one at a time and doesn't realize how misleading the listing is...

And if someone pulled the trigger and received only one tube, he would have a very good chance of getting a refund through eBay as the goods received would not match the description in the listing.

On the other hand, it might be a good idea to send a message to the vendor to ask for clarification: one tube or two.


----------



## attmci (May 16, 2017)

gibosi said:


> Really?
> 
> ~~~~~~~
> 
> ...



He already sold one.   Not one pair.


----------



## lukeap69

I have sent him a message and he confirmed that he forgot to change the description. Bollocks! I thought this is it!

What should be a reasonable price for a pair?


----------



## whirlwind

They are damn expensive tubes, anything under $400 for a pair is pretty good....like ken said, not uncommon to see them go for $400 - $500 a pair.

Man, at that price you are on your way to another fine amp by Glenn


----------



## lukeap69

Thanks Joe, however I am not willing to pay more than 300USD for a pair. I will enjoy my 6BX7's and 6BL7's instead.


----------



## Seamaster

whirlwind said:


> They are damn expensive tubes, anything under $400 for a pair is pretty good....like ken said, not uncommon to see them go for $400 - $500 a pair.
> 
> Man, at that price you are on your way to another fine amp by Glenn



They used to be $150 a pair a few years back


----------



## lukeap69

Seamaster said:


> They used to be $150 a pair a few years back



I wish it stayed that way. LOL


----------



## attmci (May 16, 2017)

lukeap69 said:


> Thanks Joe, however I am not willing to pay more than 300USD for a pair. I will enjoy my 6BX7's and 6BL7's instead.



The round bottom GEC 6as7g are more expensive than the straight bottom ones. The price of the quoted tubes are OK, but the shipping kills the deal.

Glad someone still like the 6BX7 and 6BL7.

PS

Did they move the 6as7g thread? Seems we should discuss these kind of stuff over there.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/


----------



## lukeap69

attmci said:


> The round bottom GEC 6as7g are more expensive than the straight bottom ones. The price of the quoted tubes are OK, but the shipping kills the deal.
> 
> Glad someone still like the 6BX7 and 6BL7.
> 
> ...



Good to hear. I am working out a deal with the seller. Hope we will work something out.

Re 6BL7 and 6BX7, these are still the best tubes on my Darna for my Senn HD800 SD. Great tubes for small amount of money.


----------



## whirlwind

Seamaster said:


> They used to be $150 a pair a few years back



Yeah, I know, and at the current price it is hard to pull the trigger on them , especially when the 6BL7 & 6BX7 sound so good.
For the price that most are asking for those tubes, you would be well on your way to a nice down payment on another amp, or headphones or what ever.
The tubes do have a wonderful tone to them though.


----------



## rosgr63

Talking about MOV 6AS7's there are some rare ones with a black curved base.


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Talking about MOV 6AS7's there are some rare ones with a black curved base.



I think gibosi has a pair of these, if I am not mistaken


----------



## gibosi

Yes I do.


----------



## WNBC (May 20, 2017)

Hi All,

I just received one of these amps in used condition, but the transformer has been tilted.  Maybe during shipping?  I gently tried to push back in position but I didn't want to force the issue.  Any thoughts?  I haven't turned it on yet.  Looks like the transformer front and back plates can be removed by a simple wrench.  I'm not so electronically inclined if it requires soldering once the plates are off to attach new plates.


----------



## rosgr63

Here's my NIB one


----------



## whirlwind

WNBC said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I just received one of these amps in used condition, but the transformer has been tilted.  Maybe during shipping?  I gently tried to push back in position but I didn't want to force the issue.  Any thoughts?  I haven't turned it on yet.  Looks like the transformer front and back plates can be removed by a simple wrench.  I'm not so electronically inclined if it requires soldering once the plates are off to attach new plates.



Hi, I would think you could just take the screw out and straighten out the bracket and push the transformer back in place and put the screw back in.....but i guess there could be a nut on the underside of the chasis.....maybe best to check with Glenn.

What tubes does this amp use, and congrats on a very nice find.


----------



## WNBC

Looks like 3DG4/5UA4, 6AS7, 6SN7, 6AS7

I'll send a PM to Glenn, but thanks for the advice.  Should be straightforward. 

Have heard great things about it but have not read through this thread.  Figured it was a safe bet it was going to be very good and I can do the research on it later.



whirlwind said:


> Hi, I would think you could just take the screw out and straighten out the bracket and push the transformer back in place and put the screw back in.....but i guess there could be a nut on the underside of the chasis.....maybe best to check with Glenn.
> 
> What tubes does this amp use, and congrats on a very nice find.


----------



## 2359glenn

Easy fix I will PM you.
Glenn


----------



## Rossliew

That looks like a first gen otl amp..one of the best out there!


----------



## MIKELAP

Khragon said:


> How do you quote? I got an error and need to quote manually.
> 
> +1 on the plier, don't use knife, you'll cut yourself.  I use a flat noise plier, works wonderfully.  Don't remove too many, I noticed additional noise with c3g cover removed.


Easier and nicer simply use a file anf file the corner


----------



## MIKELAP

MIKELAP said:


> Easier and nicer simply use a file anf file the corner


----------



## whirlwind

WNBC said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I just received one of these amps in used condition, but the transformer has been tilted.  Maybe during shipping?  I gently tried to push back in position but I didn't want to force the issue.  Any thoughts?  I haven't turned it on yet.  Looks like the transformer front and back plates can be removed by a simple wrench.  I'm not so electronically inclined if it requires soldering once the plates are off to attach new plates.



Once you get the transformer back in place and some tubes put in it, please post another picture, would like to see the ol girl with all the glass in and up and running.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Rossliew said:


> That looks like a first gen otl amp..one of the best out there!


There are versions with an older chassis than that (like mine which have the original pre-fab narrow chassis), but I don't think it's different in terms of function or features from mine so I guess first gen is still fair.

I recently hooked my OTL up to my Schiit Yggdrasil, something I haven't done yet, and enjoyed what I heard.  The amp scaled to the better front end very nicely and was giving the Inspire a run for its money.


----------



## 2359glenn

It is really the same amp I just switched transformer company's and the new one was larger so I had to go to
a larger chassis. Done this because Thordarson transformers got crazy with there pricing.


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> There are versions with an older chassis than that (like mine which have the original pre-fab narrow chassis), but I don't think it's different in terms of function or features from mine so I guess first gen is still fair.
> 
> I recently hooked my OTL up to my Schiit Yggdrasil, something I haven't done yet, and enjoyed what I heard.  The amp scaled to the better front end very nicely and was giving the Inspire a run for its money.




I really like the look of Glenns OTL amps with that small foot print.


----------



## Rossliew

Small but meaningfully heavy chassis


----------



## parbaked

This is Clayton's OG OTL. I think this is the first or second amp Glenn built for Head-Fi crowd. This amp and $50 worth of tubes and some HD600 is really all I would every need...


----------



## gibosi

And my GOTL is essentially the same amp. The added "features" simply allow more tube rolling. They have no affect on the SQ. And as Parbaked notes, it really isn't necessary to chase after the most expensive tubes on eBay. Yes, I have spent more than $50 on tubes, but for example, only a little over $200 for the 6 tubes pictured below. And I can honestly say that this amp is all I need and all I want


----------



## gug42

Hello, 

Did some one see glenn  in the last days ?  We make a deal some weeks ago about adapters and no news since....


----------



## Andrew Rieger (May 23, 2017)

Can Someone give me a super quick rundown on Glenn's pricing? I don't want to bog him down with a PM when I'm just casually looking.

Also, any thoughts on the possibility of a dual chassis design (separate power supply) like the Woo WA6 SE and Mapletree OD300?


----------



## gibosi

I believe that the basic OTL is $650, but I am not 10o% sure. That said, Glenn is a custom builder. If you want a dual chassis design of course he can build it. But the only way to know how much it might cost is to begin a conversation with him. Send a PM with your wish list of features and budget and he will let you know what he can do.


----------



## WNBC (May 24, 2017)

Thanks to Glenn with clear instructions.  I took 15 minutes this morning to straighten out the transformer.  Will finish up tonight getting the transformer metal feet tabs as straight as possible and then get some tubes in it.  I was planning on taking a break from headphones even before buying the amp, but couldn't resist getting one even if I tucked it away for a while.  Sold all my good headphones.   I'll read through this thread and get something budget that will work well with it.  Maybe a time to revisit the headphone that got me started in the hobby some 5-6 years ago, the HD650?   I have the Glenn-picked tubes that came with the amp.  After reading through the thread I'll have a good idea of tube configurations.  We'll call this "reverse buyers research".  My previous tube amps include MicroZOTL2.0-S, Decware Taboo II/III, Decware CSP3, Bottlehead Crack, Schiit Valhalla and Schiit Lyr.  Will be fun hearing another tube amp.


 



whirlwind said:


> Once you get the transformer back in place and some tubes put in it, please post another picture, would like to see the ol girl with all the glass in and up and running.


----------



## Khragon

Very nice amp.  I always interested in GOTL, but probably won't get one anytime soon, got to recover for the recent purchases 

I'm selling my Tak 300B, if anyone is interested.

Haven't been listening much as unfortunately in the past few weeks I've started developing some sort of constant tinnitus, here hoping it will go away soon.
Enjoy the music and keep your ENT healthy all.


----------



## leftside

I was impatient and not spending enough time to listen to music - so I've been burning in the amp and tubes by leaving the equipment running overnight. I'm about 150 hours in and I've noticed an improvement in the bass of the Tak 300B's. Wonderful tubes and highly recommended. Seem to be quite hard to find. 

I hope you've been to see the doctor in regard to your tinnitus? One of the major reasons I've upgraded my music equipment (and accumulated some debt this year...) is because a friend of mine who is 82 (and sold me his McIntosh C500T) said "enjoy it whilst you can". He's started to lose his hearing. I've also had tinnitus, and it did indeed go away after a few weeks - but still seeing the doctor is recommended.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

Khragon said:


> Very nice amp.  I always interested in GOTL, but probably won't get one anytime soon, got to recover for the recent purchases
> 
> I'm selling my Tak 300B, if anyone is interested.
> 
> ...



Do you suffer from seasonal allergies? If so, nasal problems could be causing Eustachian Tube Dysfunction. I'm dealing with seasonal tinnitus as well. I get it every year when my allergies flare up. Talk to your ENT about it. Flonase helps it go away faster for me. Hopefully its not hearing damage from headphones.


----------



## Khragon

Thanks for all the encouragement.  I went to general doctor already and was told to give it time.  Will request ENT if this persist to next week.  I don't usually get seasonal allergies.  Been using Flonase for 2 weeks but didn't think it help at all so I stopped.


----------



## WNBC

Glenn amp finally powered on and running.  Got to say it sounds pretty good with even my low impedance Ypsilon.  Senn HD650 on the way for me to try tonight.


----------



## whirlwind

Looks great WNBC. Nice pics.

I am listening to mine with my Grado RS1 right now


----------



## Toad_of_Toad_Hall (May 25, 2017)

jelt2359 said:


> So I just traded an amp for this GOTL!



@jelt2359 , what does this mega GOTL sound like?  Do the upgrades make a big difference?


----------



## 2359glenn

WNBC said:


> Glenn amp finally powered on and running.  Got to say it sounds pretty good with even my low impedance Ypsilon.  Senn HD650 on the way for me to try tonight.


----------



## 2359glenn

You can try using 6336 output tubes for low impedance cans. Just use a powerful rectifier like the 3DG4.


----------



## gibosi

And in addition to the 6336, the 6528 also works quite well with low impedance cans.


----------



## jekjek

WNBC said:


> Glenn amp finally powered on and running.  Got to say it sounds pretty good with even my low impedance Ypsilon.  Senn HD650 on the way for me to try tonight.



That's a very nice and sexy amp
I hope i own one as well


----------



## Toad_of_Toad_Hall

@2359glenn , what does jelt2359's amp sound like?  Do the upgrades give a much better sound compared to the standard GOTL?


----------



## WNBC (May 28, 2017)

Since we still can't search threads yet, I have a quick question for this amp.  Do we need matched brand pairs for the power tubes?  Currently, it has a pair of GE 6SA7.  I have a single WE 421A and a single Tung-Sol 5998 sitting around that I could try out.  Guess there would not be any harm trying, but worth asking I suppose as this type of tube configuration is new to me. 

My current rectifier is a Westinghouse 5AW4 and my driver is a Baldwin 6SN7GTB.   I have a GE 3DG4 that I can use later when I am ready for a low impedance tube configuration.


----------



## 2359glenn

It will not harm anything using mixed brand tubes
Using a mixed 5998 and 6AS7 will have the channel with the 5998 being a little lower in volume.
My preference in rectifiers was the 3DG4 with all output tubes.

Glenn


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the info.  I will see if I can order at least the same tube variant for the 5998 and 6AS7.

I will swap in the 3DG4 now. 



2359glenn said:


> It will not harm anything using mixed brand tubes
> Using a mixed 5998 and 6AS7 will have the channel with the 5998 being a little lower in volume.
> My preference in rectifiers was the 3DG4 with all output tubes.
> 
> Glenn


----------



## Rossliew

WNBC said:


> Thanks for the info.  I will see if I can order at least the same tube variant for the 5998 and 6AS7.
> 
> I will swap in the 3DG4 now.


You should also try one of Glenn's solid state rectifiers, the Hexfred. You will not regret it.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks, something to try after I get used to my current tubes.  I'm only on page 15 of the thread so lots to get up to speed about.  



Rossliew said:


> You should also try one of Glenn's solid state rectifiers, the Hexfred. You will not regret it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Whirlwind check these out


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Whirlwind check these out



Oh my....that looks wonderful Glenn!

Are you listening to it ?


----------



## Toad_of_Toad_Hall

Toad_of_Toad_Hall said:


> @jelt2359 , what does this mega GOTL sound like?  Do the upgrades make a big difference?



@jelt2359 and @2359glenn 

Long time lurker of this thread.

Hmm.... when people like a piece of gear they usually gush about it.  Based on your silence, this Uber GOTL doesn't sound any better than the standard model.  Time to investigate something else.


----------



## jelt2359

Toad_of_Toad_Hall said:


> @jelt2359 and @2359glenn
> 
> Long time lurker of this thread.
> 
> Hmm.... when people like a piece of gear they usually gush about it.  Based on your silence, this Uber GOTL doesn't sound any better than the standard model.  Time to investigate something else.



Quite the opposite. It matches up to my Apex Teton, but with a different presentation (more airy) vs the fast and smooth Teton. On certain days I prefer the Uber GOTL, on others the Apex Teton. It was a huge upgrade over my basic GOTL, but that was the most basic model without Lundahl power trafos so this was definitely to be expected.


----------



## Rossliew

Beautiful EL3N amp...

@whirlwind u will have a splendid time with it!


----------



## gibosi

Toad_of_Toad_Hall said:


> @jelt2359 and @2359glenn
> 
> Long time lurker of this thread.
> 
> Hmm.... when people like a piece of gear they usually gush about it.  Based on your silence, this Uber GOTL doesn't sound any better than the standard model.  Time to investigate something else.



If I am not mistaken, this uber GOTL was ordered by a third party and built with that person's requested upgrades. However, for reasons unknown to me, evidently that person backed out and sold it to jelt2359 before even taking delivery. So it is not as if jelt2359 had this built. He just happened to be in a position to take advantage of a very unique opportunity. 

And as he has said, he does consider this a significant upgrade to his base GOTL. But as he did not request this amp with these upgrades and then wait for several months for its completion and delivery, his reaction is somewhat different than those of us who worked with Glenn to design an amp and then patiently waited... and waited... and waited....  and then "WOW!!!


----------



## parbaked

Really nice work Glenn...WW will enjoy!!


----------



## parbaked

Time to investigate something else.[/QUOTE]
Yes...go to the Woo threads. I am sure you will find something that people are gushing about...


----------



## jelt2359

gibosi said:


> If I am not mistaken, this uber GOTL was ordered by a third party and built with that person's requested upgrades. However, for reasons unknown to me, evidently that person backed out and sold it to jelt2359 before even taking delivery. So it is not as if jelt2359 had this built. He just happened to be in a position to take advantage of a very unique opportunity.
> 
> And as he has said, he does consider this a significant upgrade to his base GOTL. But as he did not request this amp with these upgrades and then wait for several months for its completion and delivery, his reaction is somewhat different than those of us who worked with Glenn to design an amp and then patiently waited... and waited... and waited....  and then "WOW!!!



Yes this is exactly what happened. So there was no anticipation, no 'yes it's finally here! how awesome!'. But the fact that I've kept it despite having the Apex Teton (and have zero plans to sell) should speak volumes.


----------



## whirlwind

parbaked said:


> Really nice work Glenn...WW will enjoy!!





Rossliew said:


> u will have a splendid time with it!



Yes, I am assuming that I will enjoy it very much.


----------



## lukeap69

I am so envious now Joe.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Whirlwind check these out



Very Nice!  Glenn, that's why I'm on your list... @whirlwind don't hold back with your listening impressions once you receive that beautiful instrument!


----------



## Toad_of_Toad_Hall

gibosi said:


> If I am not mistaken, this uber GOTL was ordered by a third party and built with that person's requested upgrades. However, for reasons unknown to me, evidently that person backed out and sold it to jelt2359 before even taking delivery. So it is not as if jelt2359 had this built. He just happened to be in a position to take advantage of a very unique opportunity.
> 
> And as he has said, he does consider this a significant upgrade to his base GOTL. But as he did not request this amp with these upgrades and then wait for several months for its completion and delivery, his reaction is somewhat different than those of us who worked with Glenn to design an amp and then patiently waited... and waited... and waited....  and then "WOW!!!



I just so happen to be the third party of whom you spoke.  Sorry to post anonymously, but I didn't want my identity to influence Jason's description.  I'd asked Glenn a few times about your the OTL, but for one reason or another he didn't answer. 

To be honest, I wish I'd kept the amp.  Was about to take delivery of it, but certain issues came up that prevented this.  Now, I can but dream...

@jelt2359 , I apologise unreservedly for the drama that surrounded this sale.  In any case, you should arrange some mini-meets so that as many people as possible can hear Glenn's creations.  Truly a bargain if it can hold its own against the Teton.  What is your favourite tube configuration?

Best wishes and happy listening

Nathan


----------



## Rossliew

Believe Glenn's amps can hold its own against many other top tier amps


----------



## whirlwind

Rossliew said:


> Believe Glenn's amps can hold its own against many other top tier amps


No question about that, they definitely can.



ru4music said:


> @whirlwind don't hold back with your listening impressions once you receive that beautiful instrument!


It will be awhile before I get my amp, but I will post impressions once I have had enough time listening.


----------



## Rossliew

Your otl will finally have time for a break


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> No question about that, they definitely can.
> 
> 
> It will be awhile before I get my amp, but I will post impressions once I have had enough time listening.



Great!  Looking forward to your unbiased unsolicited euphoric mind-bending non-drug-induced experience.  I'm partial to the 45 tube sound so I'm waiting with "baited breath"!  GLENN, WHERE AM I ON YOUR WAIT LIST!  LOL ... just kidding.


----------



## Xcalibur255

WNBC said:


> Since we still can't search threads yet, I have a quick question for this amp.  Do we need matched brand pairs for the power tubes?  Currently, it has a pair of GE 6SA7.  I have a single WE 421A and a single Tung-Sol 5998 sitting around that I could try out.  Guess there would not be any harm trying, but worth asking I suppose as this type of tube configuration is new to me.
> 
> My current rectifier is a Westinghouse 5AW4 and my driver is a Baldwin 6SN7GTB.   I have a GE 3DG4 that I can use later when I am ready for a low impedance tube configuration.



FYI, if memory serves the WE421A is a Tung Sol 5998 so you actually do have a pair of 5998 to try out.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Glenn is that the EL3N you were going to build for yourself?  I hope you keep this one!


----------



## Xcalibur255

parbaked said:


> This is Clayton's OG OTL. I think this is the first or second amp Glenn built for Head-Fi crowd.



There were also a couple sold on eBay before a group formed around Glenn on Head-Fi.  As for the Head-Fi crowd Clayton's is at least the 3rd, because mine was the second and the person who owns the first hasn't participated in this thread for years.    He found a 3DG4 that was branded CHIEF I was always a little jealous of.  Not that it would sound any different from any other 3DG4, I just thought it was a cool brand name to have on the tube.


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> FYI, if memory serves the WE421A is a Tung Sol 5998 so you actually do have a pair of 5998 to try out.


Maybe. Maybe not  There was a thread on here a while ago discussing the differences, but I can't find it now. There are definite construction differences between various 5998's and WE421A's though. I'd imagine you'd want a pair with the same construction?


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Jun 2, 2017)

leftside said:


> Maybe. Maybe not  There was a thread on here a while ago discussing the differences, but I can't find it now. There are definite construction differences between various 5998's and WE421A's though. I'd imagine you'd want a pair with the same construction?



They are *electrically* the same, which is what is important.  If you're talking about mixing brands as was discussed in posts from a few days, which can and do have different sound characteristics, then the audible effect of one tube having slightly better quality tolerance matching than the other (which is the tangible difference between a WE 421A and a TS 5998) is going to be a lot more subtle than that and certainly not worth worrying about.  The 421As were, in all likelihood, sorted from regular production 5998 stock to be the cream of the crop in terms of plate microphonics and transconductance.  I don't doubt that sharp ears can tell them apart, but people who say the 421A is massively better sounding either had a bad 5998 to compare it to or are exaggerating in my opinion.

Give it a try.


----------



## whirlwind

I really like the 5998 power tubes in my amp....definitely one of my favorite power tubes for sure.


----------



## leftside

No doubt the 421A's and 5998's are great tubes. I have 421A's that have different construction (i.e. the getters are in different positions) and 5998's that have different construction. It would probably make sense to find two that have matching construction?

I managed to find the thread I was talking about.
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/visual-evidence-tung-sol-5998-western-electric-421.506133/page-2


----------



## whirlwind

I have never heard 421A's, so I can not comment on their sound. Glenn or  gibosi or Starvos may know more about the 421A

I have three different sets of 5998 tubes

Two sets are branded Tung Sol...but two different getters....one set branded Chatham....all threes sets sound the same to my ears and all three sets are wonderful in my amp

Tung Sol branded

 

Chatham branded....same construction....same getters....same sound  
 
 


Tung Sol round bottom getter
 


I have the Chatham 5998's in my amp right now, 5998 switch in the on position, along with the C3g's
Definitely one of my favorite combos....listening to some Robert Cray at the moment, with HD800, this combo is sublime.


----------



## dminches

What are the differences between an EL34 and EL34A?  Are they interchangeable?


----------



## 2359glenn

Not really sure but it should work fine usually the A on the end means newer version with improved specs.


----------



## 2359glenn

Some eye candy
EL3N amp with the 596 rectifier
And with the monster 5U8C rectifier


----------



## Khragon

Eye candy indeed, 

I'm curious, why not the PY500A?


----------



## 2359glenn

This Transformer has a 5 volt winding the one on the 300B don't and all the filament winding are used


----------



## Xcalibur255

leftside said:


> No doubt the 421A's and 5998's are great tubes. I have 421A's that have different construction (i.e. the getters are in different positions) and 5998's that have different construction. It would probably make sense to find two that have matching construction?
> 
> I managed to find the thread I was talking about.
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/visual-evidence-tung-sol-5998-western-electric-421.506133/page-2


For these tubes the differences usually amount to placement and number of getters.  That doesn't seem like something that would affect the way they sound, but we don't know exactly why the variations happened to begin with either so who knows.  I would chance any small SQ differences have more to do with the time period of construction and changes to production line equipment over time.  

I suppose having them match in every way is ideal, but being that particular will just drive the joy out of the hobby over time.  I had to replace a single 5998 tube out of a pair once.  It doesn't match the other one physically or in terms of emission but it sounds just like the one it replaced.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Some eye candy
> EL3N amp with the 596 rectifier
> And with the monster 5U8C rectifier



Glenn, do you have the adapters for the 596 and 5U8C tubes ?


----------



## 2359glenn

I could make them for you.
What amp do you plan to use them on?
The 5U8C really only can be used on my amps because the filament draws 5 volts at 5 amps
Most amps can only supply 3 amps.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Some eye candy
> EL3N amp with the 596 rectifier
> And with the monster 5U8C rectifier



Looks wonderful Glenn, and I can only imagine how it sounds, but I will find out soon!

Thank You!!


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> I could make them for you.
> What amp do you plan to use them on?
> The 5U8C really only can be used on my amps because the filament draws 5 volts at 5 amps
> Most amps can only supply 3 amps.


Would love the adapters, please. Wil be using them on your EL3N amp of course . Will you sell me the tubes as well


----------



## whirlwind

Rossliew said:


> Would love the adapters, please. Wil be using them on your EL3N amp of course . Will you sell me the tubes as well



I found a gentleman that has some NOS United 596 tubes.
These are like $75 each though, not the great buy as when Glenn introduced these tubes some years ago.
I have always wanted to try one, so I went for one.


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> I found a gentleman that has some NOS United 596 tubes.
> These are like $75 each though, not the great buy as when Glenn introduced these tubes some years ago.
> I have always wanted to try one, so I went for one.


I had one before selling it off with a bunch of other totl tubes to Jason (that tinge of regret is haunting me now) so would appreciate if you could send over the link/contact, please


----------



## 2359glenn

Rossliew said:


> Would love the adapters, please. Wil be using them on your EL3N amp of course . Will you sell me the tubes as well


I really don't have the tubes might have another 5U8C if I look I know I don't have the 596 the last one I have and I use it to make adapters.
Paid $15 for it 6 years ago.

Link for the 5U8C they are pretty cheep most people can't use them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-5C8S-5U...790466?hash=item41c5865942:g:A-sAAOSwmCVY-Ljp


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> I really don't have the tubes might have another 5U8C if I look I know I don't have the 596 the last one I have and I use it to make adapters.
> Paid $15 for it 6 years ago.
> 
> Link for the 5U8C they are pretty cheep most people can't use them.
> ...


Thanks, Glenn. No worries, will search around for the tubes. How much for the rectifiers including shipping to Malaysia?

Btw, can i use the 274B tube with the EL3N amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

You can use the 274B no problem.

Adapters $35 each + about $28 shipping.
So it will be a total of $98


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> You can use the 274B no problem.
> 
> Adapters $35 each + about $28 shipping.
> So it will be a total of $98


Great! Let me know your Paypal please. thanks.


----------



## gibosi

Another rectifier to try with your EL3N amp: Brimar 5V4G / CV729.

This rectifier can provide at most 175 ma, so it is not suitable for use with 6AS7s in the OTL. However, it is fine in the EL3N amp and I have been using it with four 6BX7 in the OTL. A nice rectifier, and usually not all that expensive.


----------



## 2359glenn

Rossliew said:


> Great! Let me know your Paypal please. thanks.



Sent you a PM


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Another rectifier to try with your EL3N amp: Brimar 5V4G / CV729.
> 
> This rectifier can provide at most 175 ma, so it is not suitable for use with 6AS7s in the OTL. However, it is fine in the EL3N amp and I have been using it with four 6BX7 in the OTL. A nice rectifier, and usually not all that expensive.



Nice, thanks Ken....and no adapter needed.


----------



## leftside

I've had the Glenn 300B for a few weeks now. I also upgraded my DAC this week. I can safely say that the DAC/preamp/headphone amp combo is now endgame for me.


----------



## Hansotek

I joined the cool kids club today after taking delivery of @gelajoy's Glenn OTL. They hype on this amp is very, very well deserved. Gorgeous craftsmanship and beautiful liquid, musical sound. I tried to remove the headphones several times. It didn't take. I just want to keep listening! Masterful work @2359glenn !!!


----------



## leftside

Congrats! Post some pics!


----------



## lukeap69

Cool kids club, I like that!


----------



## lukeap69

Another good thing about Glenn's OTL amp is different tubes (family?) had different sound signature like listening to different amp altogether. I have been listening to Haltron 6AS7G's A1834 for couple of days now and really enjoy what I hear. These don't have the bottom end slam of my 6BX7's but they are more expansive, have more instrument separation and more controlled highs. I am sure @whirlwind will be rolling his GEC 6AS7G's on Father's Day!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Hansotek said:


> I joined the cool kids club today after taking delivery of @gelajoy's Glenn OTL. They hype on this amp is very, very well deserved. Gorgeous craftsmanship and beautiful liquid, musical sound. I tried to remove the headphones several times. It didn't take. I just want to keep listening! Masterful work @2359glenn !!!



Thanks Glenn


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> I've had the Glenn 300B for a few weeks now. I also upgraded my DAC this week. I can safely say that the DAC/preamp/headphone amp combo is now endgame for me.



Congrats, what a wonderful set up, would love to hear this.....nothing left but to sit back and enjoy your music, what a great place to be. 




Hansotek said:


> I joined the cool kids club today after taking delivery of @gelajoy's Glenn OTL. They hype on this amp is very, very well deserved. Gorgeous craftsmanship and beautiful liquid, musical sound. I tried to remove the headphones several times. It didn't take. I just want to keep listening! Masterful work @2359glenn !!!



I wondered who was the lucky one to get this off of the B/S/T forums...I agree with the post some pics comment  





lukeap69 said:


> Another good thing about Glenn's OTL amp is different tubes (family?) had different sound signature like listening to different amp altogether. I have been listening to Haltron 6AS7G's A1834 for couple of days now and really enjoy what I hear. These don't have the bottom end slam of my 6BX7's but they are more expansive, have more instrument separation and more controlled highs. I am sure @whirlwind will be rolling his GEC 6AS7G's on Father's Day!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> Another good thing about Glenn's OTL amp is different tubes (family?) had different sound signature like listening to different amp altogether. I have been listening to Haltron 6AS7G's A1834 for couple of days now and really enjoy what I hear. These don't have the bottom end slam of my 6BX7's but they are more expansive, have more instrument separation and more controlled highs.....



In the same way that not all 6AS7G sound the same, not all 6BX7GT sound the same either. Which 6BX7 are you running?


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> In the same way that not all 6AS7G sound the same, not all 6BX7GT sound the same either. Which 6BX7 are you running?



I alternate IEC, Sylvanias and RCAs. I cannot hear any difference TBH.


----------



## Hansotek

leftside said:


> Congrats! Post some pics!



Pics to come for sure!


----------



## Hansotek

GOTL in the house.


----------



## Toad_of_Toad_Hall

Hansotek said:


> GOTL in the house.



Do you notice any 50/60 Hz hum?


----------



## Hansotek

Toad_of_Toad_Hall said:


> Do you notice any 50/60 Hz hum?



No, I don't hear any 50/60Hz hum. FWIW, there are two heavy gauge power cables and a power conditioner between the amplifier and the wall, so the amp is fairly well isolated.


----------



## Khragon

Toad_of_Toad_Hall said:


> Do you notice any 50/60 Hz hum?



I fought a hum in my 300B amp for about 6 months and realized recently that it's due mostly to mechanical transformer hum.  Adding weights on top of the transformers, especially the power one, help significantly.  I recommend getting a 5kg scale weight to give it a try.  Search for my previous posts, I posted more info on that front.
Now I can truely enjoy Glenn's creation, with Utopia I have to try very very hard to hear the hum, which I believed is the typical tube hum, hoping to resolve that when I get the HEXFRED from Glenn.

Glenn, any update on HEXFRED for me?


----------



## leftside

Thanks for posting that tip Khragon. I find the amp can be sensitive to different rectifiers. I'm also in line for the HEXFRED's, but I'm pretty happy with the Valvo rectifiers. The RCA's were noisy (hum).


----------



## gibosi

Toad_of_Toad_Hall said:


> Do you notice any 50/60 Hz hum?






As someone who has a similar amp, that is, an OTL with the original transformer and 5-volt rectifiers, I think I can say that there is always some transformer hum. For sure, some tube combinations are quieter than others, but again, that hum is always there. Speaking for myself, I find it very easy to ignore. The hum just fades into the background. But there are some who find it impossible to ignore....

I am aware of two common ways to eliminate this hum.

One way, which Glenn often recommends, is to use Lundahl transformers and forego the use of  5-volt rectifiers. And the other, which can be seen in some Woo gear, is to house the transformer and power supply in a separate chassis. Obviously, both of these solutions are costly.

If a little hum is not a deal breaker, the basic OTL is a marvelous amp. But for those for whom the elimination of hum is essential, additional measures such as Lundahl transformers or two chassis will very likely be necessary.


----------



## Khragon

Once I receive HEXFRED and confirm the last remnants of the hum are due to the rectifiers, I don't think two chassis is necessary, besides cost it added additional complexity and, Glenn can chime in, but I think the umbilical cable could be subjected to inference, which is harder to get rid off compared to simply adding weights on top of the transformer covers.


----------



## Hansotek

Khragon said:


> I fought a hum in my 300B amp for about 6 months and realized recently that it's due mostly to mechanical transformer hum.  Adding weights on top of the transformers, especially the power one, help significantly.  I recommend getting a 5kg scale weight to give it a try.  Search for my previous posts, I posted more info on that front.
> Now I can truely enjoy Glenn's creation, with Utopia I have to try very very hard to hear the hum, which I believed is the typical tube hum, hoping to resolve that when I get the HEXFRED from Glenn.
> 
> Glenn, any update on HEXFRED for me?



Sweet pro tip!

Yeah, transformer hum on 300B amps is pretty common. It's a small sacrifice to pay for that 300B magic though.


----------



## whirlwind

It is going to be a wonderful weekend.
GEL3N is in the house!

Thank you for everything Glenn.

Listening with HD800

Glenns packing job is always so awesome!


----------



## Rossliew

So how would you compare it to your OTL?


----------



## Toad_of_Toad_Hall (Jun 9, 2017)

Is the only audible difference between the Lundahl & non-Lundahl versions of the OTL an absence of hum?

Edit: I know why my GOTL was humming now.  It didn't know the words!  To cure humming, give your amp a lyric sheet.


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> It is going to be a wonderful weekend.
> GEL3N is in the house!
> 
> Thank you for everything Glenn.
> ...


Looks like Glenn was packing it for a pool party, it's summer you know!  Enjoy... enjoy... enjoy... !


----------



## gibosi

Toad_of_Toad_Hall said:


> Is the only audible difference between the Lundahl & non-Lundahl versions of the OTL an absence of hum?
> 
> Edit: I know why my GOTL was humming now.  It didn't know the words!  To cure humming, give your amp a lyric sheet.



No. All rectifiers, even solid state, add harmonic distortion to the sound. So the fact that these two versions use very different rectifiers will have some effect on the sound.


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 9, 2017)

ru4music said:


> Looks like Glenn was packing it for a pool party, it's summer you know! Enjoy... enjoy... enjoy... !


Yeah, packed wonderfully, and so heavy my mail woman after asking me to sign for it....asked me if i could carry it from the truck, she said it was very heavy for her...she is like 100 lbs soakin' wet!....This amp is hefty...impeccable build quality.



Rossliew said:


> So how would you compare it to your OTL?


I have only listened to four albums, and this is like having two amps with the one and two tube mode......I am going to need some time.  I will say that i will be up late tonight.
a couple early things I notice is the detail retrieval is off the hook with the HD800. this is the only headphone i have used so far. The amp runs very cool, only luke warm to the touch.


----------



## leftside

The 300B amp will keep me warm in the winter!


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> It is going to be a wonderful weekend.
> GEL3N is in the house!
> 
> Thank you for everything Glenn.
> ...



Congrats Joe. Why does the amp have 3 knobs? Or are they?


----------



## jekjek

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, packed wonderfully, and so heavy my mail woman after asking me to sign for it....asked me if i could carry it from the truck, she said it was very heavy for her...she is like 100 lbs soakin' wet!....This amp is hefty...impeccable build quality.
> 
> 
> I have only listened to four albums, and this is like having two amps with the one and two tube mode......I am going to need some time.  I will say that i will be up late tonight.
> a couple early things I notice is the detail retrieval is off the hook with the HD800. this is the only headphone i have used so far. The amp runs very cool, only luke warm to the touch.



Congratulations on your new amp!


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> It is going to be a wonderful weekend.
> GEL3N is in the house!
> 
> Thank you for everything Glenn.
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

Stavros
You need one of these amps !!


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn just bring one over when you visit Stavros


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Stavros
> You need one of these amps !!



I need the big boss Lucy to put me right!!!!!!!!!!!

Not long to go now


----------



## 2359glenn

will be there in 21 days


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Congrats Joe. Why does the amp have 3 knobs? Or are they?


The knob on the left is for one/two tube mode
The knob in middle is volume
The knob on the right is to change the inputs, i had an extra set of inputs put on the amp.



jekjek said:


> Congratulations on your new amp!


Thank you .


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Stavros
> You need one of these amps !!



Starvos, the detail retrieval with this amp and the HD800 is quite staggering.


----------



## 2359glenn

Rossliew said:


> Glenn just bring one over when you visit Stavros



Can't do it special order transformers from Sweden takes a month to get.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Starvos, the detail retrieval with this amp and the HD800 is quite staggering.



Joe

I wish you didn't say that. I am trying to restrain myself here from adding another amp. And you are not helping...

Enjoy listening.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Joe
> 
> I wish you didn't say that. I am trying to restrain myself here from adding another amp. And you are not helping...
> 
> Enjoy listening.




Sorry.... my bad


----------



## whirlwind

I have listened all afternoon.

HD800 sound wonderful on both one and two tube mode.
This headphoone just scales so darn well.

The ZMF Omni welcomes this amps two tube mode , at least from what I have heard so far.  Two tube mode here is way more dynamic that the OTL driiving these planars, and I think the OTL does a pretty good job at it.

My son and girlfriend are coming over for a nice meal this evening, i am sure he will get a couple hours of listening in on this amp.

The 596 rectifier has big open sound


----------



## Rossliew

Indeed your impressions are similar to mine. 2 stage mode uses all 4 el3n tubes thus giving a higher gain, more dynamic and punchy sound. But if you like a smoother sound at a slight expense of dynamics the single stage mode which only utilizes 2 el3n tubes will make your day. Truly a versatile amp!


----------



## Toad_of_Toad_Hall (Jun 10, 2017)

Does the  GEL3N have any hum, any hum at all?  I am very sensitive to hum and listen to a lot of classical chamber/choral music, which does very little to mask hum.

How much for an EL3N amp with the following specs?

Single stage
Alps blue pot
Lundahl transformers

I would be using it with a pair of HD600s and AT W1000Z.  Anyone heard either of these pairings? 

What's the waiting list at the moment?  Can payment be made in installments?

Glenn is my friend and I would really like one of his amps.  The non-Lundahl OTL just didn't work for me because of my preferences in music.  Not interested in tube rolling.  

Nathan


----------



## Rossliew

It doesn't hum. The amp is truly versatile with both low and high z cans.

Best you pm Glenn directly with your queries.


----------



## whirlwind

I am used to just reaching over and turning up the volume knob one or two clicks with my OTL, it has stepped attenuator.

I got an alps pot on GEL3N, i find every time i reach over to turn it up.....I go way to far, in two tube mode


----------



## Rossliew

Tried your RS1 with the amp yet? How's it sounding?


----------



## whirlwind

Rossliew said:


> Tried your RS1 with the amp yet? How's it sounding?



No I have not, but I may give it a spin today....my guess would be that it should have gobs of detail in one tube mode.

This amp sounds good loud, I I am finding myself on the volume knob more than usual...I need to watch that, lol


----------



## Rossliew

Indeed it does! 

Gives other more pricey amps a helluva run for their money!


----------



## Khragon

My final configuration... I don't think I need as much weights, basically just the ones on the transformers are enough, but already bought them so... might as well use them.  If you put your hand on the power transformer and feel the vibration, then weights will help, 300B tubes seem to be sensitive to these, not sure about EL3N or the OTL.  With Utopia I basically don't hear any more hum!!! You guys really got to try this.


----------



## whirlwind

Great pics Kragon.

Personally I am not being bothered by any hum  

I am very much enjoying this amp with my planars.
The planar bass has reached a new level for me, and it is a wonderful thing....makes the ZMF Omni even more fun and it was lots of fun before!


----------



## Khragon

It's funny some how I no longer have any planar in my collection... HEK wasn't working out for me.. didn't like any of MrSpeakers offering, maybe I can give the LCD4 a try or wait it out to see what coming down the pipeline in a year or so.


----------



## whirlwind

Khragon said:


> It's funny some how I no longer have any planar in my collection... HEK wasn't working out for me.. didn't like any of MrSpeakers offering, maybe I can give the LCD4 a try or wait it out to see what coming down the pipeline in a year or so.



Are you going to get an Atticus or Eikon ?

At some point i want to, I was really leaning towards an Atticus...but with the new amp, I may have to reconsider.

I would like to hear either.


----------



## Khragon

Eikon is on its way, should get to me by Thursday this week.  Should be a great pairing with Glenn 300B.


----------



## leftside

Certainly let us know how those headphones sound with the 300B. I'd like to audition the LCD-4 as I'm a big fan of planars, but any additional headphone purchases will have to wait until next year as I've spent too much this year. At least it gives me time for research.

I see you are running the Tak's and not the WE's. Do you switch between the two?


----------



## Khragon

leftside said:


> Certainly let us know how those headphones sound with the 300B. I'd like to audition the LCD-4 as I'm a big fan of planars, but any additional headphone purchases will have to wait until next year as I've spent too much this year. At least it gives me time for research.
> 
> I see you are running the Tak's and not the WE's. Do you switch between the two?



Yeah I switch between them, the WE is more transparent and a bit more dynamics compared to TAK, TAK is very musical though and I enjoy that a lot.


----------



## Hansotek

I can tell you the Atticus and the OTL are absolutely magnificent together! Using a Tung Sol 6SN7, GEC 6080s and RCA or Sylvania 5U4G. Midrange tone is A+++, especially with strings.


----------



## whirlwind

Hansotek said:


> I can tell you the Atticus and the OTL are absolutely magnificent together! Using a Tung Sol 6SN7, GEC 6080s and RCA or Sylvania 5U4G. Midrange tone is A+++, especially with strings.



That is great to hear and I thought both of Zach's new dynamic cans should match well with it....I assume Atticus bass is also killer with this set up.


----------



## Hansotek

whirlwind said:


> That is great to hear and I thought both of Zach's new dynamic cans should match well with it....I assume Atticus bass is also killer with this set up.



Yeah, I'm sure the Eikon would be very well matched to it as well, I just haven't had a chance to try it directly yet. I'm sure I will in the next couple of weeks though.

You're definitely right about the Atticus's bass. Lots of dynamic slam on the Glenn with pretty much any tubes I've tried so far. 

The stage was also nice and open with the aforementioned tube set. I think it is probably those GEC 6080 tubes that were really making the last bit of difference on opening up that stage. Once I rolled those in, the hardest panned images on the stage became a little more uncompressed and transparent. Pretty noticeable in the orchestration on Beck's "Sea Change" album. Everything just became that much more holographic. Have to test a little more to see how much of it was the 6080s and how much was the black plate Tung Sol input tube, as the two have always been together so far.


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 14, 2017)

The GEL3N is so dynamic in two tube mode, I have been listening in two tube mode with HD800 for the last three days....Gezus, the sound is big, dynamic, detailed....just gorgeous.
These  EL3N tubes sound great when run in the proper design to get the most out of the tubes and with the price of these tubes, the bang for the buck is off the hook.
Throw in  that you can use any 5 volt rectifier makes this a great option for anyone wanting an amp to power most any headphones...low or high impedance, and drive them very well.
It won't power speakers, but it will power my HD800, Grado RS1 & ZMF Ori, all effortlessly but with much authority, and the amp has never gotten over lukewarm in temperature.

I have a new dac coming in a few weeks and I can't wait to hear the amp in the chain with the dac.

Thanks again Glenn, you have built a beast of an amp for headphone listening.

Must leave to go hear some planar bass, it slams really hard now


----------



## Rossliew

Hahahaha no words can describe this amp better!

Mind telling us which Dac is incoming ?


----------



## whirlwind

Rossliew said:


> Hahahaha no words can describe this amp better!
> 
> Mind telling us which Dac is incoming ?




KTE Holo Springs L3


----------



## Hansotek

whirlwind said:


> KTE Holo Springs L3



Excellent choice!


----------



## Khragon

I have my KTE L3 for about 3 weeks now with Glenn 300B, very musical sounding DAC, I'm torn between Yggy and the KTE though, Yggy is more transparent and has tighter bass.  Been listening mostly to KTE L3, but still trying to decide between the two which I like better


----------



## Xcalibur255

Khragon said:


> My final configuration... I don't think I need as much weights, basically just the ones on the transformers are enough, but already bought them so... might as well use them.  If you put your hand on the power transformer and feel the vibration, then weights will help, 300B tubes seem to be sensitive to these, not sure about EL3N or the OTL.  With Utopia I basically don't hear any more hum!!! You guys really got to try this.



It looks like a zen garden.  

Glad you've finally got it where you wanted it to be.  One of the graces of the 45 version of this amp is how amazingly quiet it is.  I'm not sure where the major difference lies, but I've plugged stuff into it that were as sensitive as IEMs and still nothing but dead silence.  Those same headphones buzzed so loudly when I plugged them into the OTL it was comical (and unlistenable).


----------



## Khragon (Jun 15, 2017)

Haha.. it can be unsightly, I do plan to paint the weights black.. but zen indeed, very quite.  Haven't try any other more sensitive hp other than Utopia, may take the Meze 99 home from work to give it a try this weekend.

Didn't know a 45 exist, mind posting some photos for us to lust upon


----------



## whirlwind

Khragon said:


> I have my KTE L3 for about 3 weeks now with Glenn 300B, very musical sounding DAC, I'm torn between Yggy and the KTE though, Yggy is more transparent and has tighter bass.  Been listening mostly to KTE L3, but still trying to decide between the two which I like better



I was debating between these same two dac's...I have never heard either one.





Hansotek said:


> Excellent choice!



Thanks, I am really excited to hear the difference between my PS Audio Nuwave delta sigma to the KTE Spring R2R


----------



## Hansotek

whirlwind said:


> Thanks, I am really excited to hear the difference between my PS Audio Nuwave delta sigma to the KTE Spring R2R



Let me know how that goes. I'm curious about that PS Audio DAC, as I really like their gear, but haven't heard that one.


----------



## Hansotek

Has anybody used the Shuguang CV181-Z in the OTL for the 6SN7 tube? I remember that tube being really fun an bombastic with the Liquid Glass. Wondering how the Glenn would respond...


----------



## 2359glenn (Jun 16, 2017)

It should work fine don't know how it sounds though.
Over priced you can get much better NOS for allot less money.

Glenn


----------



## Khragon

I found them to be dry, although very quite tubes back when I was using them with  WA22


----------



## gibosi

Hansotek said:


> Has anybody used the Shuguang CV181-Z in the OTL for the 6SN7 tube? I remember that tube being really fun an bombastic with the Liquid Glass. Wondering how the Glenn would respond...



It is important to remember that Shuguang's so-called CV181-Z is just a 6SN7 stuffed into a sexy bottle and given a sexy name. The Shuguang tube is nothing like a real Mullard CV181.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Khragon said:


> Didn't know a 45 exist, mind posting some photos for us to lust upon



I guess it's been long enough that all the old photos are well buried now.  Now that I think about it, it's almost 4 years old.  Wow.  Time really flies........ it doesn't feel like it's been that long.


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> I guess it's been long enough that all the old photos are well buried now.  Now that I think about it, it's almost 4 years old.  Wow.  Time really flies........ it doesn't feel like it's been that long.



Here are a couple:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-333#post-9838029

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-334#post-9838558


----------



## whirlwind

What a beastly looking amp!


----------



## 2359glenn

Wow that is old now I can barley remember building it but have pictures of the innards just have to find them.


----------



## Rossliew

Will you build another one, Glenn? 

On another note, have you any new amp designs in mind since you've introduced the EL3N already?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Wow that is old now I can barley remember building it but have pictures of the innards just have to find them.



This is a picture that I would love to see Glenn.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Here are a couple:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-333#post-9838029
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-334#post-9838558


Haha, thanks for covering for my laziness.  Here's the part where I confess the truth about why I don't like to post pictures of the amp:  It has an embarrasing amount of dust on it.    Not due to lack of use mind you, it's just a pain to dust.


----------



## Khragon

I cover my precious during the weekdays to keep dust out.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Jun 17, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> Wow that is old now I can barley remember building it but have pictures of the innards just have to find them.


I have this photo too somewhere, but I'm not sure where it is.  Nobody else but me wanted a 45 amp.  People don't think they have enough power.

I've always considered it to be a highly successful design.  The only things about the amp I would change were aspects of the design I selected and insisted upon myself, such as the 6BY5 rectifiers.  If I were having it built today I'd actually just have HEXFREDs placed internally in the enclosure and not even bother with tube rectifiers.  You really got the amp to where I wanted it to be by suggesting that change Glenn.  The 6BY5s were an endless source of trouble.

edit:  maybe I don't have that photo.  I looked........ couldn't find it.


----------



## Rossliew

Tyrell, believe you've sold the amp but why? Probably could have sent it back to Glenn to install hexfreds instead


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 18, 2017)

Xcalibur255 said:


> I have this photo too somewhere, but I'm not sure where it is.  Nobody else but me wanted a 45 amp.  People don't think they have enough power.
> 
> I can understand people wanting the extra power for speaker listening, but for headphone listening this is just crazy talk, how loud can one listen to headphones anyways. You certainly would not need 8 amps.
> the only exception that I can think of would be the HE-6...I am not sure what kind of power that needs, but I have heard it needs a lot.
> ...





Xcalibur255 said:


> Haha, thanks for covering for my laziness.  Here's the part where I confess the truth about why I don't like to post pictures of the amp:  It has an embarrasing amount of dust on it.    Not due to lack of use mind you, it's just a pain to dust.



I just use one of these and dust mine a couple times a week, works great and only takes a few seconds.




*HAPPY FATHERS DAY EVERYBODY!*


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Fathers day to all the fathers out there


----------



## 2359glenn

Rossliew said:


> Will you build another one, Glenn?
> 
> On another note, have you any new amp designs in mind since you've introduced the EL3N already?



No new designs yet still trying to get the EL3N off the ground. Nobody realizes how good this amp sounds.
Planing on not building the 300B amp any more to many complaints from hum from the power transformer
not fun anymore.
Now the OTL , EL3N and maybe the 45 amp that Tyrel has.
Possibly a single tube amp using C3g's


----------



## ru4music

Xcalibur255 said:


> Haha, thanks for covering for my laziness.  Here's the part where I confess the truth about why I don't like to post pictures of the amp:  It has an embarrasing amount of dust on it.    Not due to lack of use mind you, it's just a pain to dust.



For dust removal just pick up an inexpensive set (e.g. under $10 Amazon) of makeup brushes.  They work great for all the cracks and creases and I also use them for notebook, keyboard, and screen cleaning etc. (i.e. all electronic components.)


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> No new designs yet still trying to get the EL3N off the ground. Nobody realizes how good this amp sounds.
> Planing on not building the 300B amp any more to many complaints from hum from the power transformer
> not fun anymore.
> Now the OTL , EL3N and maybe the 45 amp that Tyrel has.
> Possibly a single tube amp using C3g's



The 45 amp sounds interesting - could it be the natural sound-free successor to the 300B amp?

Other than the EL3N, could you build another amp with different tube configuration which doesn't require tube rolling to sound good?


----------



## 2359glenn

Maybe a amp that just uses one C3g per channel don't know if it will sound better then the EL3N though.
Not much tube rolling with the 45 amp C3g and 45s that is it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Rossliew said:


> Tyrell, believe you've sold the amp but why? Probably could have sent it back to Glenn to install hexfreds instead


You totally lost me.  I've never sold anything Glenn has made for me.  In fact a while back I was ranting about how I don't see how anybody possibly could sell a thing that was made just for them.

Both my OTL and 45 are sitting right next to me and they're the only things I use for listening to music aside from the IHA-1 (which is in the closet right now because the OTL stole it's spot for the moment).


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> I just use one of these and dust mine a couple times a week, works great and only takes a few seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> *HAPPY FATHERS DAY EVERYBODY!*


If you look at how a C3g sits in its socket, at least if you have the Yamamoto soundcraft socket like I do, you can see that dusting that way would actually "push" the dust down into the pin sockets.  I have carefully gone around everything a few times with a swiffer grabber cloth, but it's a pain for my clumsy hands so I don't do it often.


----------



## Rossliew

Xcalibur255 said:


> You totally lost me.  I've never sold anything Glenn has made for me.  In fact a while back I was ranting about how I don't see how anybody possibly could sell a thing that was made just for them.
> 
> Both my OTL and 45 are sitting right next to me and they're the only things I use for listening to music aside from the IHA-1 (which is in the closet right now because the OTL stole it's spot for the moment).


Oh my bad! From the way the conversation I was under the impression it was sold. Apologies are in order, dear sir. The 45 sound like an interesting amp. Could you, for my benefit if not others, share some sonic impressions of this amplifier? Thanks


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> No new designs yet still trying to get the EL3N off the ground. Nobody realizes how good this amp sounds.
> Planing on not building the 300B amp any more to many complaints from hum from the power transformer
> not fun anymore.
> Now the OTL , EL3N and maybe the 45 amp that Tyrel has.
> Possibly a single tube amp using C3g's



Single tube amp using C3g sounds very interesting


----------



## Khragon

whirlwind said:


> Single tube amp using C3g sounds very interesting



I would like that for my office


----------



## Xcalibur255

Rossliew said:


> Could you, for my benefit if not others, share some sonic impressions of this amplifier? Thanks



This sort of thing used to come fairly easy to me, but for whatever reason I struggle with this kind of thing now.  Part of the problem is, I'm finding, that the closer a system gets to sounding like real live music the fewer words and descriptions seem to apply outside of just saying "it sounds live" or the like.  The way I always put it the few times I've had conversations with people about it is this:  it puts you in front of the microphone.  That's how I feel about it.  After I finished the last round of upgrades it felt like things shifted gears.  Talking about things like soundstage just doesn't seem to fit anymore.  What I hear when I listen now is the entire acoustic space the recording microphone was in.  With eyes closed it is incredibly easy to imagine I'm there.  There is a perception of air and space that I didn't even know *existed to be perceived* in a recording before.  It makes the music feel much deeper, much more real.

Literally everything else I owned was holding the 45 back.  As I upgraded other components I kept unlocking new aspects of sound I couldn't perceive before.  That alone says everything about how good Glenn is at this.  Literally everything else I owned was holding it back, and maybe still is!  One other thing I can say is:  I'm content.  You have to know me as a person to realize how much weight there is to that statement.  I'm never content with anything, ever.  To reach a place where I'm truly happy with my system and am not striving for more is a state of being I didn't think was possible.  Everything just sounds so *right*, in every aspect you care to examine.  Tone, realism, timbre, note decay, transients, leading edges, dynamics, and on and on...... they all just sound *right* as you would expect them to sound in real life.  I'm honestly so amazed that this kind of realism is possible in a recording.

Hmmm..... so what I can I say that might actually be *helpful* to you?  I wish I could compare the sound to the 300B or the EL3N but I haven't heard either of them.  It's pretty easy to make generalizations about the 300B sound, but I haven't heard Glenn's take on a 300B so it seems unfair to make those assumptions.  Conventional wisdom says a 45 has a leaner and less "bloomy" sound than a 300B, but Glenn's amps have a way of breaking the mold in a good way.  I can say that if you like a "tubey" or "rich and euphonic" sound the 45 might not be your ticket.  It's a very accurate sound.  Probably closer to a very good solid state amp, but with superior tone color (and by superior I mean more correct because the tone colors of solid state amps all sound wrong to my ears).  I think most people who have never heard a 45 before are surprised by how fast and dynamic they are, especially given their power output.  But people also take these comments to mean the sound is not as musical as a more "tubey" amp and this is absolutely not the case!  The 45 has this "toe tapping" quality that makes you extremely aware of rhythm, time and harmony that deepens your listening experience.  It just doesn't exaggerate certain aspects of the sound in the way most traditional tube amps tend to.  The most incredible way to experience it is when you can turn off your other senses.  I will listen eyes closed with the room as dark as I can make it and the way the notes just emerge from the blackness is hair raising on some recordings.  It's so easy to feel and perceive the recording space this way.

Everything else feels like a more shallow listening experience by comparison.  Within the scope of what I have personally experienced and listened to of course.  I have no idea if any of that rambling is helpful to you, but that's what came out of my head when I sat down to write this reply.  

Cheers and happy listening.


----------



## Khragon

There's no beating Glenn 300B, haven't heard the other Glenn amp, but I just know it


----------



## Rossliew

Tyrell, your impressions have been most helpful in giving me the little insights into how the 45 amp might sound like. I must say the realism was something I experienced on occasion with the EL3N amp as well. The part where you mentioned toe tapping quality caught my eye especially since I listen to a lot of hard rock/metal tunes and this quality is important to my genre of preference. 

The only negative take away is possibly the bottle neck the rest of my chain may be imposing on the amp. I do not have top tier dacs nor using hi res recordings. That being the case, this could be an expensive trip but something worth exploring for the sake of experiencing realistic live sound in ones living room.


----------



## gibosi

With regard to a 45 amp, another thing to consider is the availability of this tube. To my knowledge, there are no modern 45s being made. Further, the older and more coveted globe versions are quite scarce and obtaining a matched pair can be expensive. Perhaps Tyrell will comment further...


----------



## parbaked

Sophia and EML both make 45 compatible tubes but they are even more expensive that NOS...


----------



## Rossliew

Now that would be a serious consideration for wanting such an amp unless there are alternatives to the 45, which would open a new world of tube rolling opportunities..


----------



## 2359glenn

I made the EL3n amp as a alternative to the expensive 45 and PX4 tubes.
The EL3N is only $35 in the US vrs 100s for 45s and PX4s.
I think it sounds close to these best sounding tubes.
Might make a amp EL3N driven by a C3g maybe the most transparent tube made.
And a amp that just uses one C3g or C3m per channel will still be 1.5 watts per channel.
Cant think of any other tubes that sound as good maybe the 2A3 or 6A3 will sound as good
and put out a little more power.
There is also the 46 a odd tube that can be used in place of a 45 with the right adapter.
But the 46 is a little less power 1.1 watts.

The only thing holding me back from building these experimental amps is quality
Lundahl transformers cost $1000 to build a amp. Allot of money to spend on a experiment.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jun 21, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Now that would be a serious consideration for wanting such an amp unless there are alternatives to the 45, which would open a new world of tube rolling opportunities..



You can also use the 46 with proper adapter.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> You can also use the 46 with roper adapter.



I've been meaning to ask you Glenn, how should I bias a 46?  The datasheets don't list the maximum for some crazy reason.


----------



## 2359glenn

You have the adapter? 
I looked this up it says 22ma for class A operation.
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/029/4/46.pdf


----------



## gibosi

All the recent talk about the 45 got me thinking that I hadn't listened to the type 76 in over a year. I remember loving the tone of these RCA type 76, and sure enough, matched with a Valvo AZ12 and four Tung-Sol 6BX7, they are every bit as good as I remember, and even better.


----------



## leftside

Rossliew said:


> The only negative take away is possibly the bottle neck the rest of my chain may be imposing on the amp. I do not have top tier dacs nor using hi res recordings. That being the case, this could be an expensive trip but something worth exploring for the sake of experiencing realistic live sound in ones living room.


Got to start somewhere. Too expensive to upgrade everything to the same level at once. I upgraded piece-by-piece. I'm very happy with my current DAC/pre-amp/headphone amp setup. Other pieces might get upgraded next year.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> I made the EL3n amp as a alternative to the expensive 45 and PX4 tubes.
> The EL3N is only $35 in the US vrs 100s for 45s and PX4s.
> I think it sounds close to these best sounding tubes.
> Might make a amp EL3N driven by a C3g maybe the most transparent tube made.
> ...



The EL3N driven by a C3G sounds promising and not too costly. I'm all for good sounding tubes that don't cost an arm and a leg


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> You have the adapter?
> I looked this up it says 22ma for class A operation.
> https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/029/4/46.pdf



Yep, you made adapters for this with the amp.

Isn't the grid voltage pretty different from a 45?  Or does that "adjust" itself in the circuit?  The curves also look wacky at the 45 operating points, but I have never been able to figure out if I'm reading them right or not.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Rossliew said:


> The EL3N driven by a C3G sounds promising and not too costly. I'm all for good sounding tubes that don't cost an arm and a leg



If cost control and a compact chassis are goals I think shooting for a single stage C3g or C3m would be a  good idea.  We could probably meet or beat the performance of the one Yamamoto Soundcraft makes for a lot less money.

If I don't get laid off next year I would still be tempted to ask Glenn to build me a single stage Emission Labs 30A amp.  The culmination of everything I've learned about this hobby over the years suggests to me this might be the top rung on the ladder if the very best transformers and parts were used.  The big unknown is what the tube itself sounds like since very few people have built projects with them.  I have a hunch it doesn't sound all that different from a 45, just has more gain and output.  Those were EML's goals for the design after all.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> All the recent talk about the 45 got me thinking that I hadn't listened to the type 76 in over a year. I remember loving the tone of these RCA type 76, and sure enough, matched with a Valvo AZ12 and four Tung-Sol 6BX7, they are every bit as good as I remember, and even better.



I didn't know you could run 76s in your amp.  That's pretty cool.  I wouldn't have thought you could sub a single triode in place of a twin triode like that.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Jun 23, 2017)

gibosi said:


> With regard to a 45 amp, another thing to consider is the availability of this tube. To my knowledge, there are no modern 45s being made. Further, the older and more coveted globe versions are quite scarce and obtaining a matched pair can be expensive. Perhaps Tyrell will comment further...



Finding good ST type (coke bottle) 45s isn't that hard, though the price is creeping up year by year.  Finding good globes, ones that are strong and don't have noise issues, is a challenge.  The latter point is the big one.  You can buy tube after tube and they'll have some kind of hum or buzz because fact of the matter is they're over 80 years old and the physical/mechanical condition of the tube affects it's sonics.  This is why I've thought about trying the EML 45 despite the eye watering price.  People say they're better than NOS 45 tubes and for that price they should be.

I got lucky (ish) when I got my KenRad globes.  The sound is head and shoulders above the newer ST 45s, and when I first got them they were quiet and didn't have any issues with bias drift (important for a manual bias amp like mine).  Sadly one of them has developed noise issues over the last year.  It's not enough to ruin enjoyment of the music, but the buzzing sound is very much there whenever a track ends.

I think if one were very serious about building a top class 45 amp they should consider the cost of a pair of EML 45s to be part of the budget, or submit themselves to the gambling experience that is buying really old direct heated triodes and hoping they're not junk when you power them up.

edit:  sorry for the thread spamming folks.


----------



## Rossliew

Love the conversations here, learning a lot just from reading posts here


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> I didn't know you could run 76s in your amp.  That's pretty cool.  I wouldn't have thought you could sub a single triode in place of a twin triode like that.



Like you, I have a Glenn OTL with a single 6SN7 socket. A couple years ago, I asked one of the eBay vendors to build an adapter to allow two 76 to be plugged into a single 6SN7 socket. In terms of bias, it is my understanding that they are relatively comfortable in a 6SN7 socket, and to my ears, this pair of RCA sound better than a grey-glass RCA 6SN7GT.


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Yep, you made adapters for this with the amp.
> 
> Isn't the grid voltage pretty different from a 45?  Or does that "adjust" itself in the circuit?  The curves also look wacky at the 45 operating points, but I have never been able to figure out if I'm reading them right or not.



The grid voltage adjusts with the bias pot in your amp. That is how it changer the current through the tube by adjusting the grid voltage.


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> If cost control and a compact chassis are goals I think shooting for a single stage C3g or C3m would be a  good idea.  We could probably meet or beat the performance of the one Yamamoto Soundcraft makes for a lot less money.
> 
> If I don't get laid off next year I would still be tempted to ask Glenn to build me a single stage Emission Labs 30A amp.  The culmination of everything I've learned about this hobby over the years suggests to me this might be the top rung on the ladder if the very best transformers and parts were used.  The big unknown is what the tube itself sounds like since very few people have built projects with them.  I have a hunch it doesn't sound all that different from a 45, just has more gain and output.  Those were EML's goals for the design after all.



I do think the EML30A is the best choice for a single tube amp. 
Will have to build one of these in the next year. Maybe with a switch like the EL3N amp has with and without a driver stage.
Problem  finding a driver good enough without going to a EML20A. A C3g will have to much gain for this and don't think a 6SN7 sounds good enough to use.


----------



## 2359glenn

At 599 a pair for the 30A at Tubes USA is not that bad.
Paid more for 1 300B.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Yeah, I see that the 30A isn't the one Jac recommends for output stage use, but it looks like the only one with enough gain to use in a single stage design.  There's also the question of how flexible it would be in terms of voltage swing.  Could it power a wide range of headphones and impedances?  EML claims the distortion on these tubes is almost non-existent so I'm sure it would sound nice.


----------



## leftside

Glenn, how many 300B amps have you made? I honestly don't know how you managed to get a tube amp to sound so clean and airy with such super tight bass.  

I see a few people mentioning a hum with this amp. With some rectifiers I can also hear it, but it is very, very quiet and it has to be at night for me to hear it. I certainly can't hear it when music is playing - even quiet music. I also recently purchased a used McIntosh MC205 amp. This is a highly regarded amp, but in my system the transformers generated a humming noise and I could hear buzzing/old modem like sound through the tweeters. The previous owner swore it was quiet in his system. The transformer hum was fixed with a Blue Circle RPD-15.

I took the MC205 into my (very good) tech and he said the amp is superb and has an extremely quiet noise floor, but is susceptible to RF noise. He added RF filters and now all is good. 

So, sometimes it can be your environment causing these noises, and not necessarily the equipment, though some equipment can be more susceptible. My older McIntosh MC7270 (from 1982) is dead silent in the same room without any mods.


----------



## 2359glenn

I made about 10 of them very simple circuit the less parts the better.
And the C3g driver is a great sounding tube + Lundahl transformers are about the best.
Karagon   says that the hum is from the power transformer vibrating the chassis being picked up by the tubes that are slightly microphonic.


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Yeah, I see that the 30A isn't the one Jac recommends for output stage use, but it looks like the only one with enough gain to use in a single stage design.  There's also the question of how flexible it would be in terms of voltage swing.  Could it power a wide range of headphones and impedances?  EML claims the distortion on these tubes is almost non-existent so I'm sure it would sound nice.



The data sheet says that output power is 3 watts more then a 45.
I think it will work good if it don't work can switch to the 20B


----------



## leftside

Only 10. Wow.

Your explanation would explain why I've found some rectifiers worse than others.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> I made about 10 of them very simple circuit the less parts the better.
> And the C3g driver is a great sounding tube + Lundahl transformers are about the best.
> Karagon   says that the hum is from the power transformer vibrating the chassis being picked up by the tubes that are slightly microphonic.



And the hum can be significantly reduced by adding 5kg weights on the transformer housing.  Cheapest and most effective solution so far.  No more complain here on my end, just patiently waiting to test HEXFRED...


----------



## whirlwind

Great Sunday morning here....A switch of position with my EL3N tubes and my amp is silent in two tube stage.

I am much enjoying this wonderful 4cd set and it sounds amazing with the GEL3N & HD800....Thanks Glenn!


----------



## 2359glenn

Nice mesh plate rectifier


----------



## 2359glenn

A couple of pics of a amp I am shipping tomorrow
1St is with six 6BL7s and C3g drivers.
2nd is with a 1633/25SN7 driver and two 6AS7s


----------



## whirlwind

Very nice, someone is going to be very happy.


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> Great Sunday morning here....A switch of position with my EL3N tubes and my amp is silent in two tube stage.
> 
> I am much enjoying this wonderful 4cd set and it sounds amazing with the GEL3N & HD800....Thanks Glenn!



Well that's the direction I'm headed next (EL3N territory)!  Whirlwind, did you have Glenn use OCC copper wire for your amp build?  I'm also thinking EL3N or possibly a C3g for a driver.  Any additional observations on the amp topology (it sounds like you're love'n it so far?)  I'll be using the HD800/T-1/HD650 headphones, have you tried a lower impedance set, planar etc.?


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> A couple of pics of a amp I am shipping tomorrow
> 1St is with six 6BL7s and C3g drivers.
> 2nd is with a 1633/25SN7 driver and two 6AS7s



Nice!  Looking forward to your next build


----------



## 2359glenn

I will build yours as soon as I get back from visiting Stavros


----------



## jekjek

whirlwind said:


> Very nice, someone is going to be very happy.


Yeah. I am very happy


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> Well that's the direction I'm headed next (EL3N territory)!  Whirlwind, did you have Glenn use OCC copper wire for your amp build?  I'm also thinking EL3N or possibly a C3g for a driver.  Any additional observations on the amp topology (it sounds like you're love'n it so far?)  I'll be using the HD800/T-1/HD650 headphones, have you tried a lower impedance set, planar etc.?



No, I did not have Glenn use OCC copper wire or silver wire for my build. He did use Cardas Quad Eutectic Silver Solder for all solder joints.  I  wanted some nice paper in oil caps , just because I am old skool,  and he was able to do that. I had an extra set of inputs added.

I have tried all of headphones with it in both single and two tube stage.

The HD800 sounds wonderful in both stages.

The  Grado RS1...32 Ohm... This sounds wonderful in single stage, so transparent and gobs of detail.

The ZMF Omni/Ori.... 50 Ohm Planar.....this needs two stage mode to really sound it's beast, and does it ever sound good, bass slam is terrific much better than with the OTL.
You can crank the volume on this amp with no distortion....you can feel the bass with the planar, if you want to go that route.

It is a wonderful amp, no doubt. If someone does not want to roll tubes, then this is your amp.  You can still roll any 5 volt rectifier that you like.
This amp is much better with planar headphones than my OTL.
When in two stage mode, this amp has a lot of authority.

Yes, I really like the amp.


----------



## whirlwind

jekjek said:


> Yeah. I am very happy



Just wait when you hear it, and you have got wonderful options with this amp.

Those 6BL7 & 6BX7 tubes sound wonderful and are a great price, also able to use 1633 and 12SN7


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> A couple of pics of a amp I am shipping tomorrow
> 1St is with six 6BL7s and C3g drivers.
> 2nd is with a 1633/25SN7 driver and two 6AS7s



This is the configuration I would request if I was going to ask Glenn to build me an a OTL today.


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> No, I did not have Glenn use OCC copper wire or silver wire for my build. He did use Cardas Quad Eutectic Silver Solder for all solder joints.  I  wanted some nice paper in oil caps , just because I am old skool,  and he was able to do that. I had an extra set of inputs added.
> 
> I have tried all of headphones with it in both single and two tube stage.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the input, it all sounding (pun intended) very good!  Nothing wrong with a pio cap., a good one can sound more musical than other Teflon types etc. which can be more transparent sounding.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> This is the configuration I would request if I was going to ask Glenn to build me an a OTL today.



I requested this configuration based on your input. 
Thanks Ken!


----------



## jekjek

whirlwind said:


> Just wait when you hear it, and you have got wonderful options with this amp.
> 
> Those 6BL7 & 6BX7 tubes sound wonderful and are a great price, also able to use 1633 and 12SN7



I also requested Glenn to do the A2293 adapter for me
With GEC 6AS7 price soaring up to the moon,  GEC A2293 will be a better alternative to it. Price still cheap


----------



## 2359glenn (Jun 25, 2017)

jekjek said:


> I also requested Glenn to do the A2293 adapter for me
> With GEC 6AS7 price soaring up to the moon,  GEC A2293 will be a better alternative to it. Price still cheap



That is because nobody can use them keeps them cheap.
But no problem with that crazy amp and special adapters.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> A couple of pics of a amp I am shipping tomorrow
> 1St is with six 6BL7s and C3g drivers.
> 2nd is with a 1633/25SN7 driver and two 6AS7s



Very nice!


----------



## Rossliew

Now that's an interesting amp! 

Glenn, is it susceptible to emf/rfi interference? I had that problem with the early iteration of the otl when I had it


----------



## 2359glenn

This one is wired different to reject RFI.
Nice amp can use a large selection of tubes.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> This one is wired different to reject RFI.
> Nice amp can use a large selection of tubes.



Is this the first one you have built using this new RFI rejection circuitry?


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> This one is wired different to reject RFI.
> Nice amp can use a large selection of tubes.



That would make a very nice amp to the collection!


----------



## jekjek

Rossliew said:


> That would make a very nice amp to the collection!



You should add one to your collection too


----------



## Rossliew

jekjek said:


> You should add one to your collection too



Yes I'm seriously thinking of it  can't wait for your impressions !


----------



## Rossliew

jekjek said:


> You should add one to your collection too



Yes I'm seriously thinking of it  can't wait for your impressions !


----------



## Xcalibur255

Khragon said:


> And the hum can be significantly reduced by adding 5kg weights on the transformer housing.  Cheapest and most effective solution so far.  No more complain here on my end, just patiently waiting to test HEXFRED...


I literally have zero interest in tube rectifiers after getting my HEXFREDs.  Just don't judge them until they have about 50 hours of use on them.


----------



## Khragon

Xcalibur255 said:


> I literally have zero interest in tube rectifiers after getting my HEXFREDs.  Just don't judge them until they have about 50 hours of use on them.



Great, thanks! now I am even more anxious.. Glenn is going on vacation, so the wait will just have to be that much longer... I've been repeating: "good things come to those who wait"...


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> Great Sunday morning here....A switch of position with my EL3N tubes and my amp is silent in two tube stage.
> 
> I am much enjoying this wonderful 4cd set and it sounds amazing with the GEL3N & HD800....Thanks Glenn!



Hows the GEL3N sounding after a new week?


----------



## Rossliew

ru4music said:


> Hows the GEL3N sounding after a new week?


Am sure it will continue to sound glorious


----------



## ru4music (Jul 1, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Am sure it will continue to sound glorious




@whirlwind @Rossliew  Sorry, I meant the last week since his last update. 

I purchased some Philips EL3Ns on e-pay (sorry @2359glenn, he worked with me on the shipping cost) so now I'm even more committed!

@whirlwind
All co$t aside, any second thoughts about not going amorphous core (vs. c-core) on the output trannies?  Are you running strictly headphones and/or speakers also?


----------



## Rossliew




----------



## 2359glenn

In Greece at Stavros house wonderful food and great company.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I am much enjoying this wonderful 4cd set and it sounds amazing with the GEL3N & HD800....Thanks Glenn!



I didn't think anyone would have that 4 cd set of Eric Clapton's Crossroads. I still have mine and will have a listen again now.

Seems like you are having a great time with the new EL3N amp and HD800. Looks lovely too. 

I suppose your Holo Spring haven't arrive. That should raise your enjoyment level even more when it does arrive.

Enjoy.


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> @whirlwind @Rossliew  Sorry, I meant the last week since his last update.
> 
> I purchased some Philips EL3Ns on e-pay (sorry @2359glenn, he worked with me on the shipping cost) so now I'm even more committed!
> 
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

@whirlwind
All co$t aside, any second thoughts about not going amorphous core (vs. c-core) on the output trannies?  Are you running strictly headphones and/or speakers also?[/QUOTE]

I don't know how better it can sound with amorphous core transformers sounds dam good with the normal Lundahl transformers.
Building a EL3N amp for Jason with Tribuit transformers all transformers for coupling no capacitor and input transformer should be interesting.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi again @whirlwind , so jealous you have 2 weeks to play with your new amp and incoming dac. 

I must say that Glenn's EL3N amp looks very classy and striking. Now that you mention that your planar magnetic sound even better with this new amp, you've got my interest. I've been thinking that an LCD2 or 3 or a HiFiMan or one of yours might be what I need to complement my headphones down the track. So I was thinking of the blue tube amp to go with it but now it could be the red amp with those very classy transformers.

I might have to talk to Glenn myself...


----------



## dminches

How many hours are 300Bs rated for? 5000?  I am thinking of getting a used pair for backup and wonder how many current hours are too much.


----------



## ru4music (Jul 2, 2017)

whirlwind said:


> All co$t aside, any second thoughts about not going amorphous core (vs. c-core) on the output trannies? Are you running strictly headphones and/or speakers also?
> 
> No seconds thoughts on anything so far, I really never considered amorphous core output trannies.....someone here wants them though, can't remember who.
> Headphone listening only for me.



_Thanks for the feedback, was pretty sure about the c-core with the GEL3N, but it never hurts to ask!_


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> @whirlwind
> All co$t aside, any second thoughts about not going amorphous core (vs. c-core) on the output trannies?  Are you running strictly headphones and/or speakers also?



I don't know how better it can sound with amorphous core transformers sounds dam good with the normal Lundahl transformers.
_That is the consensus; damn-it then, c-core it will be!_ 

Building a EL3N amp for Jason with Tribuit transformers all transformers for coupling no capacitor and input transformer should be interesting.[/QUOTE]
_WOW!  That's very intriguing... more to come on that design I'm sure._


----------



## Khragon

What sound signature (generally speaking) would an all transformer design provide vs. one with caps?
I found comment else where (quoted some posts ago) that amorphous core is brighter than C-core, never heard amorphous myself, but Glenn amp is on the neutral clear side, so any more brighter may not be desirable.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 3, 2017)

I have never heard amorphous core transformers myself and also heard they were bright.
Could never justify the extra cost.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 3, 2017)

Been hot in Greece yesterday was 109 deg F but low humidity 15% not like in North Carolina.
Supposed to be cooler today going to the beach.


----------



## Rossliew

Enjoy your vacation, Glenn!


----------



## parbaked

2359glenn said:


> In Greece at Stavros house wonderful food and great company.



YAY!!! Have Fun!!


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Hi again @whirlwind , so jealous you have 2 weeks to play with your new amp and incoming dac.
> 
> I must say that Glenn's EL3N amp looks very classy and striking. Now that you mention that your planar magnetic sound even better with this new amp, you've got my interest. I've been thinking that an LCD2 or 3 or a HiFiMan or one of yours might be what I need to complement my headphones down the track. So I was thinking of the blue tube amp to go with it but now it could be the red amp with those very classy transformers.
> 
> I might have to talk to Glenn myself...




I am having a blast at the beach for now, but when I get back home this coming weekend I will be looking forward to some quality time with my amp and dac, if it has arrived.

My OTL powers the ZMF Ori pretty decent, especially with two 6336 tubes as powers or with four 6AS7 tubes as powers, but ,,.that being said the bass is so much better with the EL3N amp
The bass goes much deeper and the slam is killer.

I think I am all set with amps for the time being, would like to add a closed dynamic, probably Atticus or Eikon, either should be a wonderful match for both amps, and maybe an open planar to go with my closed planar. Not sure if an open planar can match the bass of a closed planar though, will be fun to see if it can. Might be able to add one of these two cans by the end of the year or at least by spring of next year...the HD800....ZMF Ori and Grado RS1 will all be staying.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Been hot in Greece yesterday was 109 deg F but low humidity 15% not like in North Carolina.
> Supposed to be cooler today going to the beach.




Damn, that is HOT!

Only 92 here and that is hot!

Enjoy your beach day Glenn and wear plenty of sun screen  .   I fell asleep today listening to music on the beach, but at least I was under the canopy!

 Heading out for a couple of cocktails and some raw oysters.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn, say hi to Stavros for me.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 4, 2017)

Stavros cousin went diving for sea urchins and we had them later that night
First time I had them they were very good.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn, say hi to Stavros for me.



Stavros and I say Hi


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Stavros and I say Hi



Hahaha..  hi.

I've not been to Greece but my children have and they showed me the most amazing photos of Santorini islands.

Enjoy.


----------



## Rossliew

Nice sea urchins! I tried them in Japan (not sure if they are of the same species) and they sure tasted mighty fine. Time to plan a Grecian trip soon..more food pictures please!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Stavros cousin went diving for sea urchins and we had them later that night
> First time I had them they were very good.



Very cool eating those sea urchins as a fresh catch!
I have never tried these, but I have heard much about them and would love to try them someday.
I can see someone coming home from Greece a few pounds heavier


----------



## ru4music (Jul 4, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> Stavros cousin went diving for sea urchins and we had them later that night
> First time I had them they were very good.



Never had them myself but they look YUMMY!  I'm just curious, do they free-dive or SCUBA for those delicious delights?  All this talk makes me want to break out the diving gear and head for some warm aqua blue waters.


----------



## 2359glenn

Free dive with a snorkel pretty good for a old man.
Then cuts them off rocks with a knife.
And yes they were YUMMY. The water around Greece is a beautiful blue and clear you can see to the bottom


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Free dive with a snorkel pretty good for a old man.
> Then cuts them off rocks with a knife.
> And yes they were YUMMY. The water around Greece is a beautiful blue and clear you can see to the bottom



Heavy Sigh!   ...I heard the people of Greece put life and living first, now I'm confident that's true!

BTW, Happy 4th-of-July (Independence Day)  to everyone here in the US!


----------



## Silent One

Hey Glenn!

Good to see you over there rejuvenating your mind, body and spirit. Enjoy your vacay and please tell Starvos the silent one said "hello"....enjoy!


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Jul 4, 2017)

Khragon said:


> What sound signature (generally speaking) would an all transformer design provide vs. one with caps?
> I found comment else where (quoted some posts ago) that amorphous core is brighter than C-core, never heard amorphous myself, but Glenn amp is on the neutral clear side, so any more brighter may not be desirable.



Silver cables being bright is also a very common statement you see, but I found the exact opposite to be true when I tried them.  They mellowed the system out and took the grain out of the highs.  The longer I'm in this hobby the less inclined I am to accept any "conventional wisdom" on anything.  This is why I don't post "review" type posts anymore, because I kind of don't believe in their usefulness as much as I used to.

I suppose if anybody here tries amorphous iron first it will be me, but I'm not seeking a new amp right now and don't know when I will be.  By the time I want one I'll probably get laid off and won't be able to afford it so maybe we'll just have to let our curiosity on the matter lay as it will.


----------



## Xcalibur255

To everybody:  Happy 4th of July!


----------



## 2359glenn

Silent One said:


> Hey Glenn!
> 
> Good to see you over there rejuvenating your mind, body and spirit. Enjoy your vacay and please tell Starvos the silent one said "hello"....enjoy!



Good to see you on again it has been awhile.
I will tell Stavros Hi


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Silver cables being bright is also a very common statement you see, but I found the exact opposite to be true when I tried them.  They mellowed the system out and took the grain out of the highs.  The longer I'm in this hobby the less inclined I am to accept any "conventional wisdom" on anything.  This is why I don't post "review" type posts anymore, because I kind of don't believe in their usefulness as much as I used to.
> 
> I suppose if anybody here tries amorphous iron first it will be me, but I'm not seeking a new amp right now and don't know when I will be.  By the time I want one I'll probably get laid off and won't be able to afford it so maybe we'll just have to let our curiosity on the matter lay as it will.



My take on this is believe nothing that is said. This sounds better then that this tube sounds best.
In what amp? All amps use different circuits so a tube that sounds good in one amp may not sound good in another.
I have found that capacitors make a bigger difference then tubes do and it is best not to have them if possible. Except for in the power supply.
And in my opinion paper in oil sound the best.
In a amp with transformer output the transformer used is the biggest contributor to the SQ. And to me transformer output will sound better then OTL  
especially with low impedance phones.
This is just my opinion for what it is worth.
Amorphous core allot of money to experiment. The EL3N amp was bad enough to buy $1000 in transformers for a experiment is risky for me.
Turned out to be one of my best sounding amps.

8:00am in Greece time to start the day


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> My take on this is believe nothing that is said. This sounds better then that this tube sounds best.
> In what amp? All amps use different circuits so a tube that sounds good in one amp may not sound good in another.
> I have found that capacitors make a bigger difference then tubes do and it is best not to have them if possible. Except for in the power supply.
> And in my opinion paper in oil sound the best.
> ...




I tend to agree with this, especially about how tubes sound. one person will say , these tubes are the best, you need these tubes nothing sounds better. For me, hell, I have to listen for two for a couple of weeks to have much of a feel for them, maybe even more, time for them to settle and time for me to try them with more than just three songs, lol..
When, in reality, different ears, different components in the chain, different headphones, different music, different topology in the amps.
In my OTL amp, I prefer the C3g driver tubes to any other driver tubes, regardless of price, in my amp and to my ears, they are the most transparent driver tubes and they seem to make about every power tube sound good, lol.
I like them paired with a pair of NOS Thomson 6080 tubes, that cost $20 a pair and it seems most people don't like these tubes much, but in my amp and in my chain and with my ears, I like them when paired with the C3g.

I hear many people say that they won't try a different dac, because of the chip that it is using, when in reality it has more to do with how the chip is implemented in the dac.

I would like to hear the EL3N amp in two stage mode with no capacitors in the signal path, just like the one stage mode....just to judge for myself.

Have a great day Glenn, and don't eat too much!


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I tend to agree with this, especially about how tubes sound. one person will say , these tubes are the best, you need these tubes nothing sounds better. For me, hell, I have to listen for two for a couple of weeks to have much of a feel for them, maybe even more, time for them to settle and time for me to try them with more than just three songs, lol..
> When, in reality, different ears, different components in the chain, different headphones, different music, different topology in the amps.
> In my OTL amp, I prefer the C3g driver tubes to any other driver tubes, regardless of price, in my amp and to my ears, they are the most transparent driver tubes and they seem to make about every power tube sound good, lol.
> I like them paired with a pair of NOS Thomson 6080 tubes, that cost $20 a pair and it seems most people don't like these tubes much, but in my amp and in my chain and with my ears, I like them when paired with the C3g.
> ...



In single stage with transformer input the amp in one stage will have more gain the input transformer will boost the input signal 4X.
It will have the option to use the input transformer or go straight in to the grid of the EL3N.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I tend to agree with this, especially about how tubes sound. one person will say , these tubes are the best, you need these tubes nothing sounds better. For me, hell, I have to listen for two for a couple of weeks to have much of a feel for them, maybe even more, time for them to settle and time for me to try them with more than just three songs, lol..
> When, in reality, different ears, different components in the chain, different headphones, different music, different topology in the amps......



And with my ears, after a while, I seem to grow tired of a given sound signature. For example, for quite some time, the ECC31 was my go-to driver. But recently, after several months, it was beginning to feel like the magic was gone...

But fortunately, type 76 triodes have brought the magic back! 

Below, a pair of Sylvania 76, manufactured in 1935, and carrying the Philco brand.


----------



## 2359glenn

The 76 is a good sounding tube if you find some that are not noisy.
The globe 27 mesh plate is better but with 2.5 volt heater each tube would need a 2 ohm 10 watt resistor to drop 6.3 to 2.5.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> The 76 is a good sounding tube if you find some that are not noisy.
> The globe 27 mesh plate is better but with 2.5 volt heater each tube would need a 2 ohm 10 watt resistor to drop 6.3 to 2.5.



So far, excessive noise hasn't been a problem with these 76 triodes. I have Ken Rad, RCA, Sylvania, Tung Sol and National Union, and they are all surprisingly quiet.

For sure, I would love to try some mesh plate globe 27's, but I wondered if the amplification factor of 9 would be too low....  And then there is the 2.5 heater.... would you be willing to make a some adapters?


----------



## ru4music

gibosi said:


> So far, excessive noise hasn't been a problem with these 76 triodes. I have Ken Rad, RCA, Sylvania, Tung Sol and National Union, and they are all surprisingly quiet.
> 
> WOW!  Those are (absolutely) beautiful tubes!!  Bakelite "Philips" etched based early 76 type tubes with low noise (very rare, nice and mint) ...  I had the pleasure (i.e. privilege) in the past years to audition a 76 tube based phono preamp coupling  a Linn LP-12 table (dynamic cartridge type ??) to a _Jeff Korneff  45 tube based amp driving 12" coaxial PHY speakers in a large open baffle design.  I have to say those auditions (actually presentations from a dear audiophile/ friend ) allowed me to mature my listening appreciation. _
> 
> For sure, I would love to try some mesh plate globe 27's, but I wondered if the amplification factor of 9 would be too low....  And then there is the 2.5 heater.... would you be willing to make a some adapters?



What about the 26 tube?? (just asking)


----------



## ru4music

@2359glenn 
Hi Glenn, I will soon have an EL3N (socket) to 6v6/ EL34 (socket) tube adapter.  Do you have American tube type (i.e 6v6, EL34, or etc.) recommendation that will closely match the EL3N  operating points?


----------



## ru4music (Jul 5, 2017)

whirlwind said:


> Great Sunday morning here....A switch of position with my EL3N tubes and my amp is silent in two tube stage.
> 
> I am much enjoying this wonderful 4cd set and it sounds amazing with the GEL3N & HD800....Thanks Glenn!



I have a 4 CD set of Crossroads 2 on the way, thanks for sharing!


----------



## gibosi

ru4music said:


> What about the 26 tube?? (just asking)



Both the 26 and 27 were introduced in 1927. The 26 is a triode with a directly heated cathode, 1.5V at 1.05A, whereas, the 27 is a triode with an indirectly heated cathode. So one might consider them first cousins. 

Unfortunately, I do not believe it is possible to use a DHC triode as a driver in the OTL with only a simple adapter. At a minimum it is my understanding that DHC tubes require a carefully designed DC heater power supply to reduce hum and noise.

But indirectly heated tubes can be heated with AC and therefore, they are much more suitable for use in the OTL. And thus, it is possible to use the indirectly heated 27, and successor tubes, such as the 56 and the 76. And the real appeal of the 76 for a tube roller such as myself is the 6.3 volt heater. All that is necessary is a simple pin-adapter.

These articles may be of interest:

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/05/tube-of-month-26.html

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/06/tube-of-month-27.html


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> @2359glenn
> Hi Glenn, I will soon have an EL3N (socket) to 6v6/ EL34 (socket) tube adapter.  Do you have American tube type (i.e 6v6, EL34, or etc.) recommendation that will closely match the EL3N  operating points?



Actually the 6K6 is a closer match the 6V6 and EL34 are beam tubes the EL3N and 6K6 are true pentodes the 6K6 has the same pin out as the 6V6


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Both the 26 and 27 were introduced in 1927. The 26 is a triode with a directly heated cathode, 1.5V at 1.05A, whereas, the 27 is a triode with an indirectly heated cathode. So one might consider them first cousins.
> 
> Unfortunately, I do not believe it is possible to use a DHC triode as a driver in the OTL with only a simple
> 
> ...



I use the 26 in my preamp with filament bias no cathode resistor bypass capacitor
I feel this is the best sounding tube ever made but a pain to work with. Needs super filtered DC on the filaments.
Went through many pairs to find quiet ones found GE and Raytheon the quietest I am using Raytheon box plate 26 tubes now.
These tubes can never be used with AC for the heaters. They did in old radios but nobody cared about a little hum. And had a hum
bucking circuit that worked somewhat. 
Rare trying to find another pair of Raythion box plate tubes for spares.


----------



## jekjek

GOTL is in the house and working well
Thanks Glenn


----------



## lukeap69

jekjek said:


> GOTL is in the house and working well
> Thanks Glenn


Another different variation of GOTL. Congrats!


----------



## whirlwind

jekjek said:


> GOTL is in the house and working well
> Thanks Glenn



Congrats, and enjoy your new amp....I spy a 1633 Driver tube, great bang for your buck right there!





ru4music said:


> I have a 4 CD set of Crossroads 2 on the way, thanks for sharing!



You are quite welcome, enjoy the music.


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> GOTL is in the house and working well
> Thanks Glenn



I hope you like!!!
Glenn


----------



## ru4music (Jul 6, 2017)

gibosi said:


> Both the 26 and 27 were introduced in 1927. The 26 is a triode with a directly heated cathode, 1.5V at 1.05A, whereas, the 27 is a triode with an indirectly heated cathode. So one might consider them first cousins.
> 
> Unfortunately, I do not believe it is possible to use a DHC triode as a driver in the OTL with only a simple adapter. At a minimum it is my understanding that DHC tubes require a carefully designed DC heater power supply to reduce hum and noise.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the links, the vinylsavor has some good information.



2359glenn said:


> Actually the 6K6 is a closer match the 6V6 and EL34 are beam tubes the EL3N and 6K6 are true pentodes the 6K6 has the same pin out as the 6V6



Thanks Glenn, I'll focus on the 6K6 setting (BTW the 6V6 is a beam and the EL34 is a pentode from the data sheets.)



2359glenn said:


> I use the 26 in my preamp with filament bias no cathode resistor bypass capacitor
> I feel this is the best sounding tube ever made but a pain to work with. Needs super filtered DC on the filaments.
> Went through many pairs to find quiet ones found GE and Raytheon the quietest I am using Raytheon box plate 26 tubes now.
> These tubes can never be used with AC for the heaters. They did in old radios but nobody cared about a little hum. And had a hum
> ...



Great info. I've read the 26 tube and a lot of other DHC triode(s) are some of the best sounding tubes, but obviously a pain to work with.




jekjek said:


> GOTL is in the house and working well
> Thanks Glenn



Enjoy!


----------



## 2359glenn

Getting ready to start the long flight back to the US


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> Getting ready to start the long flight back to the US



Safe flight
I like the amp!


----------



## ru4music (Jul 7, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> Getting ready to start the long flight back to the US


Already, seems like you just got there (always does!)  You must have an overnight layover somewhere, enjoy the flight if you can.


----------



## ru4music

@2359glenn - just sent you a PM regarding some tubes you might want to look at for your preamp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Back in the USA long trip 15hrs with a 3hr layover in Philadelphia.

Looks like nice tubes those 26s and globe too.


----------



## Rossliew

Welcome back, Glenn!


----------



## 2359glenn

Thanks
Back to starting amp builds.


----------



## whirlwind

Glad you had a safe trip Glenn.

We got back last night at about 5:00 pm.

Going to listen to some music right now.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hi Joe

Glad you had a safe trip too!
Got back at about 9:30 long trip we left at 8:00am Greece time.
Think my butt is square from those airplane seats could they make them any more uncomfortable!!!!
Don't really want to be back. The Dogs are happy to see us though!!
Now to get back in the groove.


----------



## Rossliew

How many amp builds in the pipeline , Glenn?


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 8, 2017)

Right now just 1 a EL3N
What would you want??


----------



## Rossliew

Hmm...hahahaha...always dreamt of a 300b amp. But is it noisy?


----------



## gibosi

Rossliew said:


> Hmm...hahahaha...always dreamt of a 300b amp. But is it noisy?



Tubes are inherently noisy. If you want quiet, then solid-state is the way to go... IMHO....


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> Tubes are inherently noisy. If you want quiet, then solid-state is the way to go... IMHO....



Indeed Ken but there are those whose noise floor is low enough to tolerate, like my little dot mk iii (which i'm listening with right now paired with the HD600). Absolutely quiet. I read somewhere here that the 300B amp was noisier than usual so that's a big concern for me...but the lure of the 300B is strong.....


----------



## jekjek

Side track abit
I have been listening to my GOTL for two hours and i like it. 
So far the experience has been good and for the ability to roll almost any tubes in it is heaven for those tube roller

Below is the amp running 6 x 6bl7 with 5692 driver and AZ4 rectifier



 
Running smoothly


----------



## 2359glenn

@Rossliew 
I plan on making all future 300B amps with HEXFRED rectifiers and a Amperite time delay tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> Side track abit
> I have been listening to my GOTL for two hours and i like it.
> So far the experience has been good and for the ability to roll almost any tubes in it is heaven for those tube roller
> 
> ...



That setup should sound great with HD800s or HD650s


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> @Rossliew
> I plan on making all future 300B amps with HEXFRED rectifiers and a Amperite time delay tube.



This is something worth looking into seriously. Question is would i have time to save up for it. Let's take this offline


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Side track abit
> I have been listening to my GOTL for two hours and i like it.
> So far the experience has been good and for the ability to roll almost any tubes in it is heaven for those tube roller
> 
> Below is the amp running 6 x 6bl7 with 5692 driver and AZ4 rectifier



It's a little hard to be certain from the pic, but that looks like a Philips AZ4 manufactured in Eindhoven. A good sounding rectifier IMO.


----------



## leftside

Rossliew said:


> Indeed Ken but there are those whose noise floor is low enough to tolerate, like my little dot mk iii (which i'm listening with right now paired with the HD600). Absolutely quiet. I read somewhere here that the 300B amp was noisier than usual so that's a big concern for me...but the lure of the 300B is strong.....


Do it. Mine is very quiet - and I have the following setups:
- Tube DAC -> tube preamp -> Glenn 300B
- Turntable -> solid state phono pre -> tube preamp - Glenn 300B

Even with those potentially noisy setups, I can only hear a very, very tiny hum at night when everything else is completely silent - but I have to really concentrate to hear it. Of course it is inconsequential when listening to music, even during silent gaps. I found that a good pair of tube rectifiers on the 300B can really bring the noise floor down. I found the same with my Woo Audio WA22.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Below is the amp running 6 x 6bl7 with 5692 driver and AZ4 rectifier



Oh, I just realized that you are running 6 X 6BL7...

That AZ4 might not last long in your current setup. IIRC, each 6BL7 pulls 30 ma, and one 6SN7 pulls 20 ma, for a total of 200 ma. And recharging the filter capacitors requires a bit more. My practice is to add about 20 ma for recharging, which yields a grand total of about 220 ma. Unfortunately, the AZ4 is rated at only 200 ma. With 6 X 6BL7, it is maxed out, and again, might not last very long...

If I wish to use AZ4 rectifiers I run only 4 X 6BL7.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> @Rossliew
> I plan on making all future 300B amps with HEXFRED rectifiers and a Amperite time delay tube.



Glenn, do you think you have some time to build me the HEXFRED adapter?  you think anyway to include the Amperite on there?

@Rossliew, my 300B is now quite, after solving the hum problem by adding weights on the transformer housing.  @TonyNewman also seems to have solved his hum problem by moving to HEXFRED and having his power transformer potted.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hi

Tony Newman sent out his transformer to have it potted and the guy is gone with his transformer. He ordered another transformer but 
I don't think he ever got the amp running again. Don't know if his teck knows how to wire the transformer up.
If you got rid of the hum I don't recommend using SS rectifiers with out a time delay. The B+ will come up faster then the bias voltage
slamming the 300Bs with high current at turn on. The meters will peg all the way for a couple of seconds.
To put in the timer I would have to remove the 9 pin sockets and put in a octal socket for the timer.
I will try to get to the HEXFRED this week but I don't like doing it.
At risk of blowing a expensive 300B without a timer on the B+.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> It's a little hard to be certain from the pic, but that looks like a Philips AZ4 manufactured in Eindhoven. A good sounding rectifier IMO.



Yes. This is a used Valvo AZ4 rectifier
Sounds like typical Philips tube


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Oh, I just realized that you are running 6 X 6BL7...
> 
> That AZ4 might not last long in your current setup. IIRC, each 6BL7 pulls 30 ma, and one 6SN7 pulls 20 ma, for a total of 200 ma. And recharging the filter capacitors requires a bit more. My practice is to add about 20 ma for recharging, which yields a grand total of about 220 ma. Unfortunately, the AZ4 is rated at only 200 ma. With 6 X 6BL7, it is maxed out, and again, might not last very long...
> 
> If I wish to use AZ4 rectifiers I run only 4 X 6BL7.



Ok. Noted
I will use 4 x 6BL7 in the future


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Hi
> 
> Tony Newman sent out his transformer to have it potted and the guy is gone with his transformer.



Damn, that sucks! (pardon my language gentlemen)

@TonyNewman 
Sorry to hear about this Tony


----------



## Khragon

That's sucks... my chat with Tony a couple of days ago it seems he got the replacement dipped and installed.  Maybe if he still around head-fi he can chime in and post a pic or two.

Going to take your advice and skip out on the HEXFRED Glenn.. really looking forward to giving it a try though, maybe with 300BXLS I can still have a chance?  I'll send you a pm.


----------



## 2359glenn

Maybe he got the new transformer dipped and it is installed since the last time I talked to him.


----------



## Rossliew

Khragon said:


> @Rossliew, my 300B is now quite, after solving the hum problem by adding weights on the transformer housing.  @TonyNewman also seems to have solved his hum problem by moving to HEXFRED and having his power transformer potted.



Good to hear there's a real solution to this issue. I've had mixed experiences with tube amps usually end up having some kinda hum/hiss issues.


----------



## Rossliew

leftside said:


> Do it. Mine is very quiet - and I have the following setups:
> - Tube DAC -> tube preamp -> Glenn 300B
> - Turntable -> solid state phono pre -> tube preamp - Glenn 300B
> 
> Even with those potentially noisy setups, I can only hear a very, very tiny hum at night when everything else is completely silent - but I have to really concentrate to hear it. Of course it is inconsequential when listening to music, even during silent gaps. I found that a good pair of tube rectifiers on the 300B can really bring the noise floor down. I found the same with my Woo Audio WA22.


Thanks for the motivation hahaha..I'm edging closer no thanks to u guys


----------



## Khragon

Haha.. it's not often you're right next in line for a Glenn amp, and you have all of us providing good feedback and resolution.. I think your amp Glenn is incorporating all the lesson learned.  HEXFRED + Amperite time delay tube sounds like a wonderful solution.


----------



## Rossliew

Indeed! I'm breaking the piggy banks n counting the pennies now...


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> In single stage with transformer input the amp in one stage will have more gain the input transformer will boost the input signal 4X.
> It will have the option to use the input transformer or go straight in to the grid of the EL3N.


Being able to select whether or not to have the input tranny in the signal is a great idea Glenn.  For high sensitivity headphones you can run straight gain of the tube, and for hungry headphones where you need more volume the transformer can give it a boost.  That transformer will change the sound in its own way so having the option to turn it on or off is nice peace of mind.


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> Being able to select whether or not to have the input tranny in the signal is a great idea Glenn.  For high sensitivity headphones you can run straight gain of the tube, and for hungry headphones where you need more volume the transformer can give it a boost.  That transformer will change the sound in its own way so having the option to turn it on or off is nice peace of mind.



Yeah, this sounds very interesting.


----------



## whirlwind

The new amp has a friend, new dac arrived this morning.


----------



## leftside

Khragon said:


> Haha.. it's not often you're right next in line for a Glenn amp, and you have all of us providing good feedback and resolution.. I think your amp Glenn is incorporating all the lesson learned.  HEXFRED + Amperite time delay tube sounds like a wonderful solution.


Ah decisions, decisions for any potential new Glenn 300B owner. Tube rectifiers or HEXFRED + Amperite time delay. I'd probably still go the tube rectifier route if I was purchasing today. My DAC also comes with a few different configurations - and one those configs is tube rectifier or not. I also chose the tube rectifier option here. Nice to have choices.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> The new amp has a friend, new dac arrived this morning.


Congrats Joe! That's a very, very nice combo. Please let me know your impressions of the Spring after your honeymoon.


----------



## ru4music

lukeap69 said:


> Congrats Joe! That's a very, very nice combo. Please let me know your impressions of the Spring after your honeymoon.



X2


----------



## Rossliew

Hmmm holo spring...impressions please


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> The new amp has a friend, new dac arrived this morning.



Nice DAC Joe
How do uou like the sound with the EL3N?


----------



## ru4music (Jul 11, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> Nice DAC Joe
> How do uou like the sound with the EL3N?



X1,000,000,000 (that's a billion for those who aren't good at math.)  Glenn and I are just finishing the final touches on my GEL3N order; please... please say, "your in bliss!"

Listening to Crossroads 2 live (as I write), "EPIC" as stated before.  If you don't have it buy it (seriously!), if you like the blues/ rock.


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> X1,000,000,000 (that's a billion for those who aren't good at math.)  Glenn and I are just finishing the final touches on my GEL3N order; please... please say, "your in bliss!"
> 
> Yes, it is a wonderful amp, you should be very happy.
> 
> ...


----------



## ru4music

As I'm sure to experience... _absolutely!_  Now, it's time to move to part 4 of Clapton's Crossroads 2 Live... (4 0f 4 CD set)


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> The new amp has a friend, new dac arrived this morning.



Congrats Joe. I can see your toes tapping. It's going to sound good. As good as my Yggy. 

... and that EL3N amp is a beauty.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Congrats Joe. I can see your toes tapping. It's going to sound good. As good as my Yggy.
> 
> ... and that EL3N amp is a beauty.




Thank you sir.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 12, 2017)

OK, I have always been a bit skeptical of my old ears hearing anything above 44/16 flac as being worth it.

I am Listening with HD800 today....details in spades.

I must say that hearing Stevie Ray Vaughan's Texas Flood in native DSD is pretty dang awesome....I may become a believer yet.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> OK, I have always been a bit skeptical of my old ears hearing anything above 44/16 flac as being worth it.
> 
> I am Listening with HD800 today....details in spades.
> 
> I must say that hearing Stevie Ray Vaughan's Texas Flood in native DSD is pretty dang awesome....I may become a believer yet.



I found a rectifier for you! 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-PTT...K-PLATES-Tested-100-ULTRA-RARE-/222579309808

Unfortunately, it can't provide enough current for use in the OTL, but it just might be great in the EL3N!


----------



## whirlwind

That thing is huge Ken!   Over 61/2" tall.  looks built very rugged to.

Glenn sent me a 5U8C that is huge also.

It has a huge price also and way more than my depleted wallet can handle right now.  I would like to try one of those hexfreds at some point and there are a few more tube rectifiers that I want to try also.
I have a few to keep me happy for the time being so all is good.

At this point and time I can't even afford one scoop of my favorite 'Chunky Monkey" from Ben & Jerry's  

Head-fi  plays havoc with one's wallet.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> That thing is huge Ken!   Over 61/2" tall.  looks built very rugged to.
> 
> Glenn sent me a 5U8C that is huge also.
> 
> ...



I hear you! $399 is way more than my wallet can handle too! But if someone here gets it, I might be able to "vicariously" enjoy it. lol


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I hear you! $399 is way more than my wallet can handle too! But if someone here gets it, I might be able to "vicariously" enjoy it. lol




Ha ha ha.


----------



## ru4music (Jul 13, 2017)

gibosi said:


> I hear you! $399 is way more than my wallet can handle too! But if someone here gets it, I might be able to "vicariously" enjoy it. lol


 gibosi, are you related to:


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> OK, I have always been a bit skeptical of my old ears hearing anything above 44/16 flac as being worth it.
> 
> I am Listening with HD800 today....details in spades.
> 
> I must say that hearing Stevie Ray Vaughan's Texas Flood in native DSD is pretty dang awesome....I may become a believer yet.



whirlwind, what coupling caps do you use with your GEL3N?


----------



## gibosi

ru4music said:


> gibosi, are you related to:



I have no idea....  Maybe I should have my DNA tested to find out? lol


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> whirlwind, what coupling caps do you use with your GEL3N?



He has Sprague vitamin-Q


----------



## ru4music (Jul 13, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> He has Sprague vitamin-Q


@whirlwind 
Thanks Glenn, I hear they come highly recommended!  It will be interesting to see how Duelund stacks up, although, I predict they will not be taking a back seat in the SQ department.


----------



## whirlwind

Yeah, Sprague paper in oil caps in my amp.

I have the OTL amp fired up tonight with the HD800, what a good sounding amp, love it with the HD800


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, Sprague paper in oil caps in my amp.
> 
> I have the OTL amp fired up tonight with the HD800, what a good sounding amp, love it with the HD800




Whirlwind it's time to fight fire with fire!  @gibosi maybe you should have @2359glenn design & build you an amp with these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pai...030799?hash=item23871317cf:g:Gi0AAOSwjvJZSLRM


----------



## gibosi

ru4music said:


> Whirlwind it's time to fight fire with fire!  @gibosi maybe you should have @2359glenn design & build you an amp with these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pai...030799?hash=item23871317cf:g:Gi0AAOSwjvJZSLRM



Those 26 triodes do look pretty nice. But I am currently having lots of fun with the early 6.3V triodes, such as the 76.

For example, here is a sweet looking early triode, probably manufactured in the late 1920's, with mesh plates. Since I am searching for a mate to this one, I choose not to reveal exactly what it is.


----------



## ru4music

gibosi said:


> Those 26 triodes do look pretty nice. But I am currently having lots of fun with the early 6.3V triodes, such as the 76.
> 
> For example, here is a sweet looking early triode, probably manufactured in the late 1920's, with mesh plates. Since I am searching for a mate to this one, I choose not to reveal exactly what it is.



Very Nice!  Are you attempting an actual build or just trying to corner the market on rare tubes?  I won't hazard a guess as to protect its anonymity.


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> Very Nice!  Are you attempting an actual build or just trying to corner the market on rare tubes?  I won't hazard a guess as to protect its anonymity.



He uses them in his OTL amp with a adapter.


----------



## gibosi

ru4music said:


> Very Nice!  Are you attempting an actual build or just trying to corner the market on rare tubes?  I won't hazard a guess as to protect its anonymity.



Neither. As Glenn notes, I buy only those tubes that I can use in the OTL. And in this case, the mystery tube is pin-compatible with the 76. So in order to test it, I put a 76 in one side of the adapter and this tube in the other. In the OTL, it has less gain than the 76, but otherwise, it works fine. But obviously, in order to evaluate this tube, I need a pair.


----------



## ru4music

gibosi said:


> Neither. As Glenn notes, I buy only those tubes that I can use in the OTL. And in this case, the mystery tube is pin-compatible with the 76. So in order to test it, I put a 76 in one side of the adapter and this tube in the other. In the OTL, it has less gain than the 76, but otherwise, it works fine. But obviously, in order to evaluate this tube, I need a pair.



Damn, good for you!    That's casting your hook/ bait as opposed to standing on the shoreline and just cutting bait.


----------



## ru4music (Jul 14, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> He uses them in his OTL amp with a adapter.


Wow that's great!  I wonder (not really... )  if he (@gibosi) is missing there true potential compared to a single ended high efficiency design ( i.e. new Glenn amp needed!).  The 76 tube (as I've auditioned) is very very good if you can source a low noise/ low microphonic example.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Those 26 triodes do look pretty nice. But I am currently having lots of fun with the early 6.3V triodes, such as the 76.
> 
> For example, here is a sweet looking early triode, probably manufactured in the late 1920's, with mesh plates. Since I am searching for a mate to this one, I choose not to reveal exactly what it is.




Great looking tube Ken, good luck finding another one....I know you will, you always do.  
Are you still listening with Senn HD700 ?

After listening to the HD800 and my OTL amp last night and this morning, it is just hard to beat the OTL with this headphone, especially for blues music.
Going through my Stevie Ray Vaughan collection.


----------



## gibosi

ru4music said:


> Wow that's great!  I wonder (not really... )  if he (@gibosi) is missing there true potential compared to a single ended high efficiency design ( i.e. new Glenn amp needed!).  The 76 tube (as I've auditioned) is very very good if you can source a low noise/ monophonic example.



There are some here who are on a quest for the ultimate amp, ultimate tubes, ultimate capacitors, ultimate transformers and so forth. But not me. I am much more of a tube roller and collector than an audiophile. That is, discovering and trying out new tubes is my quest.

Moreover, it just so happens that I already have the ultimate tube rolling amp. And it just so happens that the 76 sounds terrific in this amp. Thanks Glenn! 

So no, I have no interest in or desire for an ultimate amp designed around the 76, or any other tube....


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Great looking tube Ken, good luck finding another one....I know you will, you always do.
> Are you still listening with Senn HD700 ?
> 
> After listening to the HD800 and my OTL amp last night and this morning, it is just hard to beat the OTL with this headphone, especially for blues music.
> Going through my Stevie Ray Vaughan collection.



Yes. I still have my slightly modded HD700. In fact, it is the only headphone I use...

And I am hopeful I can find a match for my early mesh-plate triode. However, it appears to be exceedingly rare, so it may take months... or even years... On the other hand, most vendors have no idea what it is, so it is usually goes for cheap.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Jul 14, 2017)

ru4music said:


> @whirlwind
> Thanks Glenn, I hear they come highly recommended!  It will be interesting to see how Duelund stacks up, although, I predict they will not be taking a back seat in the SQ department.


I did the Duelund Alexander.  Seemed like a more sanely priced alternative to their high end stuff.  Without "cap rolling" you can't really know, but I've definitely been able to "hear" cheap or bad caps in the past and I can't hear the Alexanders.


----------



## ru4music

Xcalibur255 said:


> I did the Duelund Alexander.  Seemed like a more sanely priced alternative to their high end stuff.  Without "cap rolling" you can't really know, but I've definitely been able to "hear" cheap or bad caps in the past and I can't hear the Alexanders.



That's good to know.  My build will include the RS series which is a step above the VSF series and one step below the top-of-the-line Duelund CAST series, so I'm anticipating good things!


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Great looking tube Ken, good luck finding another one....I know you will, you always do.
> Are you still listening with Senn HD700 ?
> 
> After listening to the HD800 and my OTL amp last night and this morning, it is just hard to beat the OTL with this headphone, especially for blues music.
> Going through my Stevie Ray Vaughan collection.



Joe, for the HD800, GOTL or GEL3N? You are on the hot seat now.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Joe, for the HD800, GOTL or GEL3N? You are on the hot seat now.




Hi Arnold, both amps do great with the HD800.

For just the HD800, I personally like the warmer sound of the OTL and especially with the new dac. Of course YMMV

I have been listening to HD800 with the OTL the last couple of days.....Chatham 6AS7 & NU 12SN7

I have been working my way through my Stevie Ray Vaughan collection, i am still on vacation and quite enjoying my music.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Hi Arnold, both amps do great with the HD800.
> 
> For just the HD800, I personally like the warmer sound of the OTL and especially with the new dac. Of course YMMV
> 
> I have been listening to HD800 with the OTL the last couple of days.....Chatham 6AS7 & NU 12SN7



And IMHO this illustrates one of the true strengths of the OTL - tube rolling! 

To the best of my knowledge, the vast majority, and perhaps all Philips EL3N were manufactured in Vienna, Austria at their WIRAG factory. In my experience, WIRAG tubes tend to be fairly cool with considerable treble presence and air. And Hungarian Tungsram tubes tend to have a similar sound signature. But of course, in the OTL, with so many choices available for driver and output tubes, is is possible to finely tune the sound signature to suit any headphone and set of ears.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> And IMHO this illustrates one of the true strengths of the OTL - tube rolling!
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, the vast majority, and perhaps all Philips EL3N were manufactured in Vienna, Austria at their WIRAG factory. In my experience, WIRAG tubes tend to be fairly cool with considerable treble presence and air. And Hungarian Tungsram tubes tend to have a similar sound signature. But of course, in the OTL, with so many choices available for driver and output tubes, is is possible to finely tune the sound signature to suit any headphone and set of ears.





Yeah, if you like to roll tubes and are mainly using high impedance cans and while it does do pretty good with my planars....that is where it lacks to the GEL3N amp ....authority definitely favors GEL3N


----------



## gibosi

The OTL running a pair of Sylvania 37, manufactured in the month of September, 1932. The type 37 is essentially a type 27 outfitted with a 6.3V heater in response to the growing demand for radios in motor vehicles beginning around 1930. And therefore, it is one of the earliest single triodes that can be used in the OTL without a custom heater power supply.

However, as others have observed, these early triodes are often unacceptably noisy and getting good ones is a bit of a crap shoot. I have four type 37 and of these, two are too noisy. Fortunately, the two that are keepers were made by the same company and I have a date-matched pair. Still, I am bummed that both the RCA's are too noisy...
Incidentally, they sound terrific.


----------



## whirlwind

Very nice Ken, those are some old ass tubes!


----------



## Neogeo333

Miss the OTL so much.  If I'd known it would work with those old ass tubes I would still probably keep it.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 16, 2017)

Neogeo333 said:


> Miss the OTL so much.  If I'd known it would work with those old ass tubes I would still probably keep it.



Hi George, nice to see you here.

I use the GEC 6AS7 tubes that I got from you on special occasions.

Maybe tonight to listen to a couple of DSD albums would be a good time.


----------



## Neogeo333

Hi Joe, the GEC are very wonderful tubes.  If mix together with the VR102/BL63 and a Cossor/Osram 5u4 for a British trio the sound is soo seductive.  Nice to see your having fun with your new DAC.


----------



## gibosi

The Marconi-Osram/GEC VR102/BL63... Shown below next to a 6F8G. It is easy to see why some refer to it as a 6F8G on steroids. lol 

The heater draws 1.3A, or more than twice that of a 6F8G (or 6SN7GT). The Glenn OTL can easily handle this tube driving a pair of 6AS7G, but very few other amps can. Be careful out there....

It has been several years since I last listened to this tube. For now, I am too captivated by old globe triodes to be seriously tempted, but I will definitely keep this in mind as a tube I want to revisit sooner rather than later...


----------



## whirlwind

Ken, that makes the 6F8G look like a new born


----------



## gibosi

You know, it might be interesting to try the VR102/BL63 as output tubes, similar to the 6BL7/6BX7. But unfortunately, they are quite expensive and the cost of purchasing 4 or 6 of these is more than my wallet can handle. lol


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> You know, it might be interesting to try the VR102/BL63 as output tubes, similar to the 6BL7/6BX7. But unfortunately, they are quite expensive and the cost of purchasing 4 or 6 of these is more than my wallet can handle. lol



Yes, that would be a quite costly experiment.


----------



## leftside

Anyone using the 300B with HiFiMan HE-6's?


----------



## Khragon (Jul 19, 2017)

leftside said:


> Anyone using the 300B with HiFiMan HE-6's?


*raise hand*


----------



## leftside

Good to see. I trust the 300B drives those babies with authority?


----------



## Khragon

Yup. I think so, although I don't have any thing else more powerful.  I am enjoying the paring though, no complaint.


----------



## Toad_of_Toad_Hall (Jul 22, 2017)

.


----------



## rnros

In line for the GOTL. Happy.


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> In line for the GOTL. Happy.




Congrats!


----------



## rnros

Thanks. Now trying to back read as much of this thread as I can. 
Just another OCD audio freak, I don't want to miss anything...


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> Congrats!



Whirlwind, did the GEL3N/ Holo Springs DAC make a DSD believer out of you?


----------



## ru4music

rnros said:


> In line for the GOTL. Happy.



Good for you!


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> Thanks. Now trying to back read as much of this thread as I can.
> Just another OCD audio freak, I don't want to miss anything...




Don't feel bad, I have read the whole thread....some great info on tubes , and don't read on an empty stomach, as some of the food pics are killer!


----------



## parbaked

rnros said:


> In line for the GOTL. Happy.



Good choice...now what's your favorite pizza??


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> Don't feel bad, I have read the whole thread....some great info on tubes , and don't read on an empty stomach, as some of the food pics are killer!



Saw some of the food pics, waiting for an invitation! 



parbaked said:


> Good choice...now what's your favorite pizza??



Not easy choosing between Glenn's amps, starting at the beginning with the OTL. 
Hard to pick a favorite pizza. And thanks, this is an invitation, yes?


----------



## lukeap69

rnros said:


> Thanks. Now trying to back read as much of this thread as I can.
> Just another OCD audio freak, I don't want to miss anything...


I suggest you get the best configuration you can. Congrats


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> I suggest you get the best configuration you can. Congrats




+1


----------



## rnros

lukeap69 said:


> I suggest you get the best configuration you can. Congrats



Thanks. This will be the six 6BL7/6BX7 version with single 6SN7 and double C3g driver sockets.
Also Lundahl transformer and 6/12/25 voltage switch and (hopefully) 5998 MOD.


----------



## whirlwind

Great choice of the options, that will be a wonderful amp.


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> OK, I have always been a bit skeptical of my old ears hearing anything above 44/16 flac as being worth it.
> 
> I am Listening with HD800 today....details in spades.
> 
> *I must say that hearing Stevie Ray Vaughan's Texas Flood in native DSD is pretty dang awesome....I may become a believer yet.*



So whirlwind, would you say after your two week listening session that Hi Res DSD is a step forward in audio fidelity?  I'm asking because in my existing setup I have listened to Hi Res native DSD demo recordings vs. good CD redbook and HDCD recordings and couldn't tell that much difference.


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> So whirlwind, would you say after your two week listening session that Hi Res DSD is a step forward in audio fidelity?  I'm asking because in my existing setup I have listened to Hi Res native DSD demo recordings vs. good CD redbook and HDCD recordings and couldn't tell that much difference.



I don't know if I would say that.  The amount of DSD available is not very large.  You still need a well recorded master, as you say, a well recorded 44/16 Flac can sound amazing.

It is fairly expensive and it takes lots of hard drive space....this alone turn many off and that is quite understandable.

I liked very much what i heard from the few DSD  that I have heard....I liked it well enough that i will buy some of my favorite albums....I can only speak for what I hear with my system

The DSD plays at a lower volume, like how Mp3 can sound louder than 44/16 flac....the DSD sounds lower than flac....that lets me get on the volume pot a little bit more, and my system sounds better that way. 

DSD is not needed, but it is a great option.


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> I don't know if I would say that.  The amount of DSD available is not very large.  You still need a well recorded master, as you say, a well recorded 44/16 Flac can sound amazing.
> 
> It is fairly expensive and it takes lots of hard drive space....this alone turn many off and that is quite understandable.
> 
> ...



Thanks @whirlwind for the feedback!


----------



## lukeap69

rnros said:


> Thanks. This will be the six 6BL7/6BX7 version with single 6SN7 and double C3g driver sockets.
> Also Lundahl transformer and 6/12/25 voltage switch and (hopefully) 5998 MOD.


That's an excellent configuration. Are you also going for goldpoint attenuator? My GOTL Darna has high gain so I am using a Schiit SYS to control the input so I can have a bit of play with my GOTL's attenuator especially with 6BL7's. You may want to discuss this with Glenn.


----------



## leftside

DSD fan here. DSD file into DSD DAC into Glenn amp


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> DSD fan here. DSD file into DSD DAC into Glenn amp




I am trying to put back a little money each pay, so by Christmas time I can order a new headphone, but I find myself once a week looking for a new DSD album.
Sometimes I resist and sometimes I don't


----------



## rnros

lukeap69 said:


> That's an excellent configuration. Are you also going for goldpoint attenuator? My GOTL Darna has high gain so I am using a Schiit SYS to control the input so I can have a bit of play with my GOTL's attenuator especially with 6BL7's. You may want to discuss this with Glenn.



Thanks. Was not intending to go with the Goldpoint. If gain is an issue with the 6BL7, can it be used with 4 instead of 6?


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> Thanks. Was not intending to go with the Goldpoint. If gain is an issue with the 6BL7, can it be used with 4 instead of 6?




Yes, it sure can.

With your configuration, you can have a whole lots fun with tubes....enough to drive you crazy!


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> Yes, it sure can.
> 
> With your configuration, you can have a whole lots fun with tubes....enough to drive you crazy!



Thanks for confirming that.
Indeed, even without doing the math, the number of possible combinations may lead to...   and .


----------



## lukeap69 (Jul 27, 2017)

I did not notice any change in gain when using 2, 4 or 6 6BL7's. It is still high. 2 clicks on my 24 steps attenuator is already too loud for my HD800. 6BX7's have lesser gain compared to 6BL7's but not much.
6AS7 can go to say 4 to 6 clicks on my attenuator before getting too loud as when using 6BL7's. This is just based on listening but I have not measured so I wouldn't know exactly.


----------



## rnros

lukeap69 said:


> I did not notice any change in gain when using 2, 4 or 6 6BL7's. It is still high. 2 clicks on my 24 steps attenuator is already too loud for my HD800. 6BX7's have lesser gain compared to 6BL7's but not much.
> 6AS7 can go to say 4 to 6 clicks on my attenuator before getting too loud as when using 6BL7's. This is just based on listening but I have not measured so I wouldn't know exactly.



Thanks for the details. I agree, much better to have the attenuation via the onboard volume control rather than adding another volume pot before the amp. Especially when you have something like the Goldpoint installed.


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> I did not notice any change in gain when using 2, 4 or 6 6BL7's. It is still high. 2 clicks on my 24 steps attenuator is already too loud for my HD800. 6BX7's have lesser gain compared to 6BL7's but not much.
> 6AS7 can go to say 4 to 6 clicks on my attenuator before getting too loud as when using 6BL7's. This is just based on listening but I have not measured so I wouldn't know exactly.



This is according to the output of your source it should be 2 volts max. But some of to days devices put out 4 or more volts
what happened to standards.
Also the C3g has more gain then the 6SN7 types of drivers.


----------



## ru4music

leftside said:


> DSD fan here. DSD file into DSD DAC into Glenn amp



So Mr. leftside, do you feel your getting greater audio fidelity through DSD sources vs. other formats?  Or is it because of convenience etc.?


----------



## Xcalibur255

The Goldpoint is totally worth it.  I'm sure it seems expensive for a volume attenuator, but there are sonic benefits to it.  Perfect channel balance and no noise from the pot aging over time.  Plus, knobs that click have always and will always be better than knobs that don't click.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I pulled out my 5687 adapter for my GOTL and was reminded how much I like the sound of this driver in the amp.  It's got Chatham/TungSol 6520s in the output stage right now but the 5687 works really well with 5998s too.  I don't know how far off from ideal bias a 5687 is when operating in a circuit designed for a 6SN7, but the results are better than all but a couple of my favorite 6SN7 tubes for a fraction of their cost.

Then again, I've said this before too, but I honestly think the way Glenn originally designed this amp way back was the best choice:  setting up the the driver stage for the 13D1 and that's it.  Super cheap and sounds great.  The Master knows his craft.


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> I pulled out my 5687 adapter for my GOTL and was reminded how much I like the sound of this driver in the amp.  It's got Chatham/TungSol 6520s in the output stage right now but the 5687 works really well with 5998s too.  I don't know how far off from ideal bias a 5687 is when operating in a circuit designed for a 6SN7, but the results are better than all but a couple of my favorite 6SN7 tubes for a fraction of their cost.
> 
> Then again, I've said this before too, but I honestly think the way Glenn originally designed this amp way back was the best choice:  setting up the the driver stage for the 13D1 and that's it.  Super cheap and sounds great.  The Master knows his craft.




Yeah, it is great getting cheap tubes that sound wonderful.   It is nice having an amp that can use tubes that not many amps can use.


----------



## leftside

ru4music said:


> So Mr. leftside, do you feel your getting greater audio fidelity through DSD sources vs. other formats?  Or is it because of convenience etc.?


I do prefer DSD sources, but this could be for a number of reasons. Perhaps for DSD (and SACD) the producer took more effort with the mastering. I've had some SACD's (now ripped to ISO's) that sounded very poor, but generally I very much enjoy DSD files. I'm not sure how a DSD file is more convenient than a regular MP3, but certainly more convenient than vinyl (which I still enjoy, and pairs superbly with the Glenn 300B).

I've also recently been experimenting with upsampling from PCM to DSD 256 with HQPlayer and Roon. I'm quite liking the Roon upsampling and will continue experimenting. The idea with this upsampling is to not generate "extra" fidelity out of thin air, but rather to do the filtering in software, so the DSD DAC doesn't have to do it. But, that's a whole nother story.


----------



## ru4music

Xcalibur255 said:


> The Goldpoint is totally worth it.  I'm sure it seems expensive for a volume attenuator, but there are sonic benefits to it.  Perfect channel balance and no noise from the pot aging over time.  Plus, knobs that click have always and will always be better than knobs that don't click.


I agree, both expensive and worth it.  It's currently being built on my new GEL3N amp and, I also presently have a DACT stepped attenuater on my Woo WA2 amp.


----------



## ru4music

Xcalibur255 said:


> I pulled out my 5687 adapter for my GOTL and was reminded how much I like the sound of this driver in the amp.  It's got Chatham/TungSol 6520s in the output stage right now but the 5687 works really well with 5998s too.  I don't know how far off from ideal bias a 5687 is when operating in a circuit designed for a 6SN7, but the results are better than all but a couple of my favorite 6SN7 tubes for a fraction of their cost.
> 
> Then again, I've said this before too, but I honestly think the way Glenn originally designed this amp way back was the best choice:  setting up the the driver stage for the 13D1 and that's it.  Super cheap and sounds great.  The Master knows his craft.


X2


----------



## ru4music

leftside said:


> I do prefer DSD sources, but this could be for a number of reasons. Perhaps for DSD (and SACD) the producer took more effort with the mastering. I've had some SACD's (now ripped to ISO's) that sounded very poor, but generally I very much enjoy DSD files. I'm not sure how a DSD file is more convenient than a regular MP3, but certainly more convenient than vinyl (which I still enjoy, and pairs superbly with the Glenn 300B).
> 
> I've also recently been experimenting with upsampling from PCM to DSD 256 with HQPlayer and Roon. I'm quite liking the Roon upsampling and will continue experimenting. The idea with this upsampling is to not generate "extra" fidelity out of thin air, but rather to do the filtering in software, so the DSD DAC doesn't have to do it. But, that's a whole nother story.



Thanks for your response, it all (clearly) depends on the original sound engineering (equipment and skill), recording format(s), as well as the end equipment.  One direction may improve the overall fidelity and another may detract.


----------



## whirlwind

I have listened to Stevie Ray Vaughan - Texas Flood DSD with all of my headphones now, and giving it another listen with the HD800.

It sounds great, especially since I don't have to swap out cds, considering it is digital sound and not spinning a disc


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> I have listened to Stevie Ray Vaughan - Texas Flood DSD with all of my headphones now, and giving it another listen with the HD800.
> 
> It sounds great, especially since I don't have to swap out cds, considering it is digital sound and not spinning a disc


How do you like the 596 tube with the GEL3N?  I have 4 NOS in storage that I can use once my amp is completed.


----------



## whirlwind

The 596 rectifier sounds great, this amp has such a nice big sound...Love it!


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> The 596 rectifier sounds great, this amp has such a nice big sound...Love it!


Grea... aaaaaaaaat!  I've been so absorb in other aspects of the GEL3N/ components that I have forgotten to look at the 5u4 rectifier source.  Funny though: caugh ... caugh, I'm sure I'll find something compatible in my archives. And If not,  @gibosi _will surely_ have a recommendation   (I welcome a that!)


----------



## gibosi

Well...  I would guess that there are about 30 rectifiers I can recommend.


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> Grea... aaaaaaaaat!  I've been so absorb in other aspects of the GEL3N/ components that I have forgotten to look at the 5u4 rectifier source.  Funny though: caugh ... caugh, I'm sure I'll find something compatible in my archives. And If not,  @gibosi _will surely_ have a recommendation   (I welcome a that!)



I can make you a 596 adapter i you want.


----------



## whirlwind

If you plan on using the 596 rectifier, I would definitely get the adapter from Glenn.

It is much better made than anything else you will find...top notch.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I can make you a 596 adapter i you want.



This reminds me... Did you get the B4 adapters I sent you?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> This reminds me... Did you get the B4 adapters I sent you?



Yes I did haven't had time to do anything with them yet


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Yes I did haven't had time to do anything with them yet



No problem. I just wanted to be sure that you had them.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> I can make you a 596 adapter i you want.


Thanks Glenn, I already have a couple of the Woo Audio adapters from when I purchase the 596(s)a few years ago.


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> Thanks Glenn, I already have a couple of the Woo Audio adapters from when I purchase the 596(s)a few years ago.



You can also use a 3DG4 that I will supply with the amp.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> You can also use a 3DG4 that I will supply with the amp.


That's always good to hear!  Is the amp's tube rect. designed for a 5u4 type tube at 5.0 Vf?  It seems the 3DG4 is spec. at 3.3 Vf, do you add a resistor etc. to drop the voltage?


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes it will have a resistor dropping 5 to 3.3. In my OTL amp I have the transformer with the 5 volt winding tapped
at 3.3.
The 3DG4 has very low voltage drop compared to 5U4 types and is a high power tube made for Zenith TVs.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Yes it will have a resistor dropping 5 to 3.3. In my OTL amp I have the transformer with the 5 volt winding tapped
> at 3.3.
> The 3DG4 has very low voltage drop compared to 5U4 types and is a high power tube made for Zenith TVs.


Ok I see, both tubes use the octal bases with different pin-outs so you'll just add the  v-drop resistor in the chassis.


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes no adapter needed just plug ether tube into the same socket.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Joe, for the HD800, GOTL or GEL3N? You are on the hot seat now.



I am starting to change my opinion on this the longer that I listen.

Two stage mode with HD800 is pretty special.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> I am starting to change my opinion on this the longer that I listen.
> 
> Two stage mode with HD800 is pretty special.



Thanks Joe. I'll pretend I didn't read your last post. LOL


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> I am starting to change my opinion on this the longer that I listen.
> 
> Two stage mode with HD800 is pretty special.



To stage mode gives it more oomph and a fuller bodied sound. Single stage mode offers more transparency and flatter response curve, if one can describe it as such. I personally preferred the 2 stage mode.


----------



## gibosi (Aug 12, 2017)

On the chance that someone might be interested...

I finally have a pair of RCA/Cunningham globe 37's installed in the OTL. The Cunningham was manufactured in the first quarter (Jan-Apr) of 1932, and the RCA, in the third quarter (Jul-Oct) of 1931.

(After 1920, all Cunningham tubes were manufactured by RCA:
https://vacuumtubesinc.com/cunninghampage )




Interestingly, although "DC HEATER" is clearly printed on the box, these tubes were designed by RCA to use AC as well.



In 1933, RCA phased out the globe bottle in favor of the ST bottle. The pinched dome of the ST bottle facilitated the use of a top mica contacting the glass, front to back and side to side. This considerably dampened any movement of the internal structure and thus microphonic distortion was also reduced. Below, the globe was manufactured in March, 1933, and the ST bottle in October, 1933.  Also in 1933, the "half-width" plate was replaced with a "full-width" plate. And again, I assume, this was to make the internal structure more rigid in order to further reduce distortion

Given my ears and gear, these sound great.


----------



## SonicTrance

gibosi said:


> On the chance that someone might be interested...


Nice globe tubes! Is there enough gain in your OTL when using those low µ tubes? I've been searching for medium µ globe tubes to use as input stage, but don't think any exist.


----------



## gibosi

SonicTrance said:


> Nice globe tubes! Is there enough gain in your OTL when using those low µ tubes? I've been searching for medium µ globe tubes to use as input stage, but don't think any exist.



The type 37 has a µ of 9.2 and I am using four 6BX7GT, with a µ of 10, as output tubes. In the OTL, gain is more than sufficient, with my HD700 and the volume knob set between 9 and 10 o'clock. However, I haven't tried the 37 with 6AS7-type output tubes...

The type 76 has a µ of 13.8, and might be a better choice if more gain is desirable. However, since the 76 was introduced in 1934, they are all ST bottles, as far as I know. But still, the 76 is a wonderful tube.


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> I am starting to change my opinion on this the longer that I listen.
> 
> Two stage mode with HD800 is pretty special.


Stop teasing me , you know my GEL3N is in the process of being built!   Glenn did say that the amp sounded (at least) as good as his 300B just with less power (IIRC) and I believe he voices his designs with the Senn. 800/ 650 family of headphones.


----------



## 2359glenn

SonicTrance said:


> Nice globe tubes! Is there enough gain in your OTL when using those low µ tubes? I've been searching for medium µ globe tubes to use as input stage, but don't think any exist.



These are good low u tubes if you can find quiet ones. Best to run the filaments on DC with these old tubes.
I  use globe #26 tubes in my preamp went through 10 pair to find quiet ones. Found Raytheon box plate to be the best.
But the SQ of these old tubes are worth the hassle of using them.


----------



## ru4music

lukeap69 said:


> Thanks Joe. I'll pretend I didn't read your last post. LOL


Pretend you did because all of Glenn's versions (IMHO) are very very good.  I don't believe you can go wrong with any of them.    His OTL is  a "Jack of All Trades and a Master Of What You Want",  as well!  Sleep easy!!!!


----------



## lukeap69

ru4music said:


> Pretend you did because all of Glenn's versions (IMHO) are very very good.  I don't believe you can go wrong with any of them.    His OTL is  a "Jack of All Trades and a Master Of What You Want",  as well!  Sleep easy!!!!



I have one of his OTL's. See my sig.


----------



## ru4music

lukeap69 said:


> I have one of his OTL's. See my sig.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> On the chance that someone might be interested...
> 
> I finally have a pair of RCA/Cunningham globe 37's installed in the OTL. The Cunningham was manufactured in the first quarter (Jan-Apr) of 1932, and the RCA, in the third quarter (Jul-Oct) of 1931.
> 
> ...




Those are some great looking globe tubes, Ken.
1931 and 1932....amazing to think about that.  Like 85 years old!
Congrats on getting these


----------



## ru4music (Aug 7, 2017)

deleted post.


----------



## jekjek (Aug 9, 2017)

Nice tube @gibosi

Below is my OTL setup running 1805 rectifier and brimar 13d1
And flea power only 2 x 6BX7 powering my HD650 just fine


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 9, 2017)

jekjek said:


> Nice tube @gibosi
> 
> Below is my OTL setup running 1805 rectifier and brimar 13d1
> And flea power only 2 x 6BX7 powering my HD650 just fine



The HD650 sounds OK with just 2 6BX7?? 
The 1805 rectifier can handle two 6BX7s per chanel
The 13D1 is a great sounding tube I originally built the OTL using the 13D1 or 1633.
It only used 25 volt drivers but people complained they couldn't use 6SN7s so I changed it so it could.
Now the regular OTL will only use 6SN7s.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> The HD650 sounds OK with just 2 6BX7??
> The 1805 rectifier can handle two 6BX7s per chanel
> The 13D1 is a great sounding tube I originally built the OTL using the 13D1 or 1633.
> It only used 25 volt drivers but people complained they couldn't use 6SN7s so I changed it so it could.
> Now the regular OTL will only use 6SN7s.



I tried 4 x 6BX7 and it sound like too much gain. It all smooth out when i use 2 x 6BX7

The dynamic bass of 6BX7 is quite addictive but it doesn't sound as wide as 6AS7 tubes


----------



## Rossliew

jekjek said:


> Nice tube @gibosi
> 
> Below is my OTL setup running 1805 rectifier and brimar 13d1
> And flea power only 2 x 6BX7 powering my HD650 just fine


Nice amp! Now I kinda miss the OTL


----------



## gibosi

It's nice to see others using 4 volt rectifiers.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> It's nice to see others using 4 volt rectifiers.


The  Philips 1805 is a very good rectifier!


----------



## whirlwind

jekjek said:


> Nice tube @gibosi
> 
> Below is my OTL setup running 1805 rectifier and brimar 13d1
> And flea power only 2 x 6BX7 powering my HD650 just fine




Good picture.

1805 Rectifier....nice
You tried just two 6BX7 with the C3g drivers ?



It's nice to see others using 4 volt rectifiers. 

I put one in this morning also.


 


Cheers to the 4 volt rectifier club


----------



## jekjek

whirlwind said:


> Good picture.
> 
> 1805 Rectifier....nice
> You tried just two 6BX7 with the C3g drivers ?
> ...


I have not try the C3G with 6BX7
Will try it later


----------



## TonyNewman

After a long, long time of messing about my 300B amp is completed. Finished. Done. 






Changes from stock as follows:

Power transformer dipped in polyurethane (stopped a buzz)
One output transformer and choke replaced (following a melt down).
Solid state rectification installed.
PY500s draw heater current (only) for the lovely orange glow. The fat bodied RCAs glow wonderfully.

Soft start installed.
The soft start is the toggle switch to the right of the power button. On start up, with the soft start engaged, no bias current is registered at all. After about 30 seconds to a minute I disengage the soft start and the bias current increases slowly up to load (set to 60mA with the Elrogs). This is a gentle and slow increase - very similar to what happens with tube rectification. Prior to this the bias current would surge and 'peg' against the meter limit quite hard - even with the bias wound in as far as it would go. That's probably not good for tubes like the Elrogs, and it probably isn't good for the bias pots to be wound in/out on every power cycle.

Anyway, it's all done now and I am thrilled with the amp performance.

These are late 2016 Elrogs. Supposedly they have been made far more robust than the originals that failed all over the shop. Will see how these go. Build quality is just gorgeous, as is the glow. On a similar level to the Taks as far as build goes, and that's as good as I have seen anywhere.


----------



## 2359glenn

Great tony.
SS rectification don the trick for you


----------



## ru4music

TonyNewman said:


> After a long, long time of messing about my 300B amp is completed. Finished. Done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tony, I believe your very close (if not) to "as good as it gets", congrats!


----------



## TonyNewman (Aug 13, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> Great tony. SS rectification don the trick for you



Thanks Glenn - and thanks for building a great 'baseline' amp. Stock was pretty d*** good sounding to start with. Changing over to SS rectification made the sound more transparent and dynamic, without losing much tube magic. Also stops the situation of a failed PY500 taking out my house circuit breaker  That's not a fun scenario.



ru4music said:


> Tony, I believe your very close (if not) to "as good as it gets", congrats!



I'm very happy with where the amp is at now - the mechanics (SS rectification + soft start) and my best tube complement (TA300B and ER300B). I would stack it up against ANY other amp, SS or tube, with confidence that it would not be embarrassed. EC Studio or GS-X Mk2. Whatever.

Comparing the Elrogs and Taks is interesting. Both excellent tubes, but very different.

Taks - more romantic and mid range centric, but still with decent treble and bass extension (my Taks are the 'improved' model released around 2015 - perhaps a tad more extended than the previous version that I have also owned, but the difference is subtle to my ears). For vocal-centric listening the Taks are very hard to beat. A sweet tube that really shines with the best female vocalists (Rebecca Pidgeon / Amber Rubarth / Alison Krauss ... etc).

Elrogs - more transparent and dynamic. Closer to SS, but still with tube magic. There is something quite unique to the Elrog sound, I think. Some folks have described the sound as 'internally lit' and that is as good a description as anything I can think of. If that is the thoriated tungsten at work or not I don't know. Whatever it is, I'm liking it. Very seductive sound.

I'd say the SQ of the ER300B is my favorite at the moment, which is saying quite a bit given how excellent the TA300Bs are. Only question mark is reliability. The Elrogs had a shocking start with many tube failures combined with less than stellar warranty support. Elrog is now under new ownership and the new ownership is committed (so they say) to a much improved product and backing the warranty. Will see how this plays out.

EDIT: I also have a pair of EML 300B on hand. These are decent, honest performing tubes. Nothing wrong with them at all - but they just don't sit at the same table as the TA300B or ER300B to my ears. They are also quite a bit less expensive, so represent pretty good value.


----------



## whirlwind

Nice job to leave those  RCA PY500's glow so nicely.


----------



## 2359glenn

On this amp I am thinking about having a SS full wave rectifier then feed the high voltage DC  through the PY500s for the slow start.
The rectification would be done by the HEXFREDs just DC will go through the PY500s they will do the soft start only.


----------



## whirlwind

Practiced on an old noisy EL3N tube....undressing her from her red skirt.


----------



## 2359glenn

I think the red skirting is conductive and is hooked to the cathode. This makes a shield that is brought to near ground potential
Through the cathode resistor and capacitor.


----------



## whirlwind

Stan said he thought it did nothing, but I will leave the rest of my tubes alone.....just in case.

Thanks Glenn.


----------



## gibosi (Aug 13, 2017)

Nice tube pics! 

Here is a MOV U18 rectifier. which can provide up to 250 mA at 500V, and thus, it is sufficient for use in the OTL with 6AS7 output. And of course it is perfectly fine in the EL3N amp as well.

However, it is outfitted with a 4V heater and a B4 base, so it does require an adapter.

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/060/u/U18.pdf

I believe this particular tube was manufactured in the mid-1930's. A very nice rectifier, IMO.


----------



## gibosi

And a little more tube porn. 

A pair of mesh-plate #37. While labeled Grunow, these were manufactured by National Union, likely between 1934 and 1938. But unfortunately, the ground hum is unacceptable. And as I now have only two pairs of acceptably quiet #37 out of a total of 12 tubes, I have decided to bite the bullet and follow Glenn's advice: Switch to DC heaters.

I hope to have my crude external DC heater power supply up and running soon...


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Nice tube pics!
> 
> Here is a MOV U18 rectifier. which can provide up to 250 mA at 500V, and thus, it is sufficient for use in the OTL with 6AS7 output. And of course it is perfectly fine in the EL3N amp as well.
> 
> ...



Guess I have to get those adapters done most adapters can't handle 3.75 amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> And a little more tube porn.
> 
> A pair of mesh-plate #37. While labeled Grunow, these were manufactured by National Union, likely between 1934 and 1938. But unfortunately, the ground hum is unacceptable. And as I now have only two pairs of acceptably quiet #37 out of a total of 12 tubes, I have decided to bite the bullet and follow Glenn's advice: Switch to DC heaters.
> 
> I hope to have my crude external DC heater power supply up and running soon...



That should do it you might have to ground one side of the DC filament supply to the chassis
to get rid of all noise.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> That should do it you might have to ground one side of the DC filament supply to the chassis
> to get rid of all noise.



Thanks for confirming this. When I used this setup with my Little Dot, I grounded one side of the output to the LD, so for sure, will do the same with the OTL.


----------



## gibosi (Aug 13, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> Guess I have to get those adapters done most adapters can't handle 3.75 amps.



I noticed that the adapter got pretty darn hot when I ran the U18 and the 1817 (with a 4.0 A heater!), so I tend to leave them in their boxes....


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> And a little more tube porn.
> 
> A pair of mesh-plate #37. While labeled Grunow, these were manufactured by National Union, likely between 1934 and 1938. But unfortunately, the ground hum is unacceptable. And as I now have only two pairs of acceptably quiet #37 out of a total of 12 tubes, I have decided to bite the bullet and follow Glenn's advice: Switch to DC heaters.
> 
> I hope to have my crude external DC heater power supply up and running soon...


Show us your project please


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> I noticed that the adapter got pretty darn hot when I ran the U18 and the 1817 (with a 4.0 A heater!), so I tend to leave them in their boxes....



Those adapters were pretty burned up inside might even been from the 2 amp tubes they were made fore.
Resistors were underrated to have resistors small enough to fit in the adapter  and cooked.
Removed them and wired as a 3DG4 will ship them back to you tomorrow.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Those adapters were pretty burned up inside might even been from the 2 amp tubes they were made fore.
> Resistors were underrated to have resistors small enough to fit in the adapter  and cooked.
> Removed them and wired as a 3DG4 will ship them back to you tomorrow.



I was never all that impressed with the quality of these adapters, but I had no idea they were that bad... Thanks again!


----------



## gibosi

Glenn,

By the way, I assume that a 5CU4 will work in the OTL?

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/5/5CU4.pdf


----------



## 2359glenn

Ken

At 385ma this is one powerful tube it does have a cathode that is brought out on pin 1.
But I have pins 1 and 8 tied together to be able to use the 3DG4 so this tube will work great in your amp.
Just nobody else can use it.


----------



## 2359glenn

I will have to get some of them looks like a great tube that will put most other rectifiers to shame


----------



## gibosi

I was wondering about that cathode connection, especially the note "In service, cathode should be connected to heater."

Good to know that it will work in your OTL, and for sure, I will have to get one too.


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 14, 2017)

The specs look better then the WE422A I have to have one.
Just bought one.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Aug 14, 2017)

gibosi said:


> Glenn,
> 
> By the way, I assume that a 5CU4 will work in the OTL?
> 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/5/5CU4.pdf


The specs look awesome.  Super low voltage drop, offers tons of current for hungry designs.  How is nobody using this yet?

edit:  a quick look on eBay reveals only a single listing.  So they are uncommon both in usage and supply it seems.


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes it will if your OTL will take a 3DG4 can't remember at this point I think it did.
If it does Pins 1 and 8 are tied together.
I just bought one there was 3 up for sale ken must have bought the other not many can use this tube.


----------



## whirlwind

I will have to keep my eyes open for one of these in the future.....after Ken gets what he wants.


----------



## gibosi

Ha! 

It does appear that due to the nonstandard pin-out, these were not widely used, and thus, are somewhat rare. I have seen several mentions of their use in Bogen PA equipment from the 1960's, but that's about it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Being they are made by Raytheon I would say mostly military.
Did you buy one?


----------



## jekjek

Hi Ken,

How about sicte 5S34?
Unable to find any info about it


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Being they are made by Raytheon I would say mostly military.
> Did you buy one?



Yes, I did. 

But although these recent listings were for Raytheons, the only datasheet I found was published by Tung-Sol, which causes me wonder if more than one company manufactured these...


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Hi Ken,
> 
> How about sicte 5S34?
> Unable to find any info about it



This listing suggests that it is a GZ34:

http://www.ebay.com.hk/itm/VALVOLE-ELECTRON-TUBES-5S34-GZ34-SICTE-ITALY-/221359526717

But otherwise, I don't see any other info....


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> This listing suggests that it is a GZ34:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.hk/itm/VALVOLE-ELECTRON-TUBES-5S34-GZ34-SICTE-ITALY-/221359526717
> 
> But otherwise, I don't see any other info....


Extra large GZ34
Sounds good and detail


----------



## 2359glenn

The GZ34 is a great sounding rectifier low voltage drop.


----------



## gibosi

gibosi said:


> Ha!
> 
> It does appear that due to the nonstandard pin-out, these were not widely used, and thus, are somewhat rare. I have seen several mentions of their use in Bogen PA equipment from the 1960's, but that's about it.



Here is a link to a Bogen Stereo Power Amplifier DS225 using a pair of 5CU4.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/bogenpr_ds225.html

And elsewhere, I read a short article noting Bogen's reputation for pushing tubes beyond their published ratings. One of the examples was the 5CU4. The published maximum supply voltage is 285 volts, but Bogen fed the rectifier with 480 volts. One might expect that this practice would have dire consequences. And yet, Bogen got away with it even though these public address systems typically ran for thousands of hours per year. 

At the least, this leads me to think that the 5CU4 is one very tough rectifier.


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks for that link gibosi.

Whoa, almost 200 volts overload....ha ha, yeah, I would say it is pretty tough.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Here is a link to a Bogen Stereo Power Amplifier DS225 using a pair of 5CU4.
> 
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/bogenpr_ds225.html
> 
> ...



Your amp will run them at 265 volts per plate or 530 volts plate to plate below there recommended supply voltage.


----------



## gibosi (Aug 16, 2017)

A little more tube porn. 

An early Philips 1817 arrived today:

Shown below next to a Tung-Sol 3DG4. The 1817 was first developed and manufactured by Philips in Eindhoven in 1932, and I suspect that this is a fairly early one. However, I have seen pictures of an 1817 with a globe bottle, and would assume that that one is the earliest. The 1817 is a fairly powerful rectifier, capable of providing 300 mA. However, the heater draws 4 Amps at 4 Volts, and therefore, unfortunately, other than the GOTL not many other headphone amps can use this tube.



Shown here next to it's little brother, the 1815. The 1815 can provide at most, 180 mA and the heater draws 2.5 Amps at 4 Volts



And finally, shown next to a later 1817, likely manufactured in the late 1930's, I would guess, before WWII. With the Nazi invasion of the Netherlands in 1940, Philips lost control of the Eindhoven facility and it is not clear if these rectifiers continued to be manufactured there during the war. And further, I have seen no evidence to suggest that Philips resumed production of the 1815 and 1817 after the war.



In the post-war world, America’s military and economic dominance established the octal base and 5-volt rectifiers as world standards. Of course, it was still necessary to produce 4-volt rectifiers to keep all the old European equipment operating, but the future was 5-volt. And further, with the economies of Europe in tatters, Philips turned its eye toward the vast and booming American market. And in fairly short order, Philips released a number of 5-volt octal rectifiers, including the GZ32, GZ33 and GZ37, developed by Mullard, and the GZ34, developed in Eindhoven.

And I am happy to report that it works!


----------



## whirlwind

That might be a bigger rectifier than the 5U8C that Glenn sent, and it is huge!


----------



## Oskari

That is one tall tube. How tall is an early 1817?


----------



## gibosi

Oskari said:


> That is one tall tube. How tall is an early 1817?



Not including the pins, this 1817 is about 15.5 cm, or a bit over 6 inches tall.


----------



## Rossliew

And how does it sound ?


----------



## gibosi

Rossliew said:


> And how does it sound ?



I listened to the 1817 for only an hour today, so I can't say much in detail. But I can say that in my experience the sound of the 1817 is similar to that of double triodes and other rectifiers manufactured in Eindhoven. To my mind the most notable characteristic of the Eindhoven house-sound is a slightly forward mid-range with a bit of lushness. For those who have experience with Heerlen-made tubes, I would say on average the Eindhoven sound is not quite as lush as Heerlen.

Unfortunately, the only 5-volt Eindhoven-made rectifier I am aware of is the very expensive metal-based GZ34. And since I have yet to win the lottery, I don't have one for comparison purposes. But I do have a number of 4-volt Eindhoven-made rectifiers - 1815. 1817, 1861, AZ4 and AZ50. To my ears, the 1861 and AZ50 approach the lushness of the Heerlen sound, the AZ4 and the newer, more compact 1815 and 1817 are not quiet as lush, and the older 1815 and 1817 are even less so.

In short, I am a big fan of the Holland sound, Heerlen and Eindhoven, and to my ears the old 1815 and 1817 are wonderful rectifiers.


----------



## Rossliew

Many thanks for the impressions, Ken. Always a pleasure to read your notes on the tubes and their historical relevance 

Btw, a bit off topic but do you reckon one of these 4 volt rectifiers may work safely in the Dragon Inspire IHA-1 amp?


----------



## gibosi

Rossliew said:


> Many thanks for the impressions, Ken. Always a pleasure to read your notes on the tubes and their historical relevance
> 
> Btw, a bit off topic but do you reckon one of these 4 volt rectifiers may work safely in the Dragon Inspire IHA-1 amp?



Of course, some of them will work in that amplifier. But a bit of detective work is necessary in order to determine which ones are adequate and safe.

In my experience, the two key rectifier specifications are *heater current* and *output DC mA*.

The amp is shipped with a Sovtek 5Y3GT and from the data sheet, this rectifier can provide up to 133 mA with a 2.0 A heater. So this tells us that any 4V rectifier that can provide at least 133 mA is adequate. But many rectifier heaters draw more than 2.0 A, so this is a concern. But I see that the RCA 5U4GTB is listed as an optional rectifier and this rectifier draws 3.0 A. But still, a number of these 4V rectifiers draw more than 3.0 A.

So I would suggest that you contact the manufacturer and ask for the maximum heater current that amp can provide. You probably should not tell them that you plan to run 4V rectifiers, as they will likely freak out and just say NO! lol. But asking if it is safe to use a 5AW4, which draws 3.7 A, would be a reasonable question.

If the manufacturer is unable or unwilling to provide you with this information, then more detective work on your part will be required. If you can get a list of 5V rectifiers that have been found to be safe for use in the IHA-1, you can check the datasheets for these rectifiers to see which one has the highest heater current, and use that number as your maximum.

Obviously, determining the maximum heater current in this fashion may not be perfectly accurate, but it is safe. And this is important. If a rectifier requires more heater current than your amp is designed to provide, the amp may be damaged, perhaps fatally, so I encourage you to be very careful in this regard.

If it turns out that 3.0 A is the maximum, of those that I have personal experience with, you would not be able to run an 1817, as this tube requires 4.0 A.  Others you would not be able to run are the NU12 and U18, which require 3.75 A, the 45IU, 3.5 A, and the PV 200/600, 3.4 A.

But this still leaves a good variety: FW4-500, U18/20, AZ50, 1861, 1815, RGN2504, AZ12, AZ4, UU7 and UU8. Further, since the IHA-1 requires no more than 133 mA to operate, there are plenty more out there, such as U12, UU5, 43IU, RGN2004, FW4-800 and many others, which are not powerful enough to use in the Glenn, but perfectly suitable for the IHA-1.

Hope this is helpful....


----------



## Neogeo333

I thought I'll never say this but I think Im sick of eating pizza.  I get to eat all this at work anytime.


----------



## gibosi

And I get to eat frozen pizza all the time....  lol


----------



## rnros

You have my attention. Can you send me two of each?
They. Look. Incredible.
Toppings are great, but the crust looks... perfect!

Yeah, I'm hungry...  You're not helping.


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> Of course, some of them will work in that amplifier. But a bit of detective work is necessary in order to determine which ones are adequate and safe.
> 
> In my experience, the two key rectifier specifications are *heater current* and *output DC mA*.
> 
> ...


Many thanks for your input, Ken. Most, most helpful!

One other thing, would I need to look at the current draw of the rectifier in totality with the other tubes used, which in this amp is a pair of 6sn7 ( which can also accept 6BX7/6BL7)?


----------



## whirlwind

Whoa George.

I would love to indulge into that pizza!


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 17, 2017)

Neogeo333 said:


> I thought I'll never say this but I think Im sick of eating pizza.  I get to eat all this at work anytime.



George  What
You are just mean!!
You know I am trapped in NC with what Pizza hut or Pappa Johns.
You just want to torture me.


----------



## Neogeo333

It's great in this place, brick dome oven and whole 9 yards.  Glenn you have to swing by when you get back to Brooklyn.


----------



## gibosi

Rossliew said:


> Many thanks for your input, Ken. Most, most helpful!
> 
> One other thing, would I need to look at the current draw of the rectifier in totality with the other tubes used, which in this amp is a pair of 6sn7 ( which can also accept 6BX7/6BL7)?



No. The rectifier is heated from a 5 volt winding which is completely separate from the 6.3 volt winding heating the two 6SN7. And it is the current capacity of that 5 volt winding that you need to find out.


----------



## gibosi

A Raytheon 5CU4 arrived today. Hope to have some time this evening to roll it in.

Sylvania 3DG4 to the left and 5CU4 to the right.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Aug 18, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Many thanks for your input, Ken. Most, most helpful!
> 
> One other thing, would I need to look at the current draw of the rectifier in totality with the other tubes used, which in this amp is a pair of 6sn7 ( which can also accept 6BX7/6BL7)?



FYI feel free to direct these kinds of questions to me if you want to.  I own one of these and I've spoken to the designer so I'm equipped to answer them. 

The rectifier does have it's own tap on the power transformer, which is rated at 3A with a 10% safety overtolerance.  I asked Dennis if he thought a 3.8A rectifier like a 5AU4 would be safe for the amp and he seemed to think the transformer would tolerate it because the other tap is underutilized so the total heat dissipation should still be safe enough, but my personal opinion is that it isn't worth risking.  The B+ requirement of the Inspire IHA-1 is very modest.  Even a low capacity tube like a 5Y3 has a pretty easy job in this amp.  The only advantage to big honking rectifiers in the Inspire is to shave a few volts off your drop voltage for a slightly different sound. 

My personal opinion is that this amp likes 5R4GY tubes a LOT.  The Philips version in particular absolutely stomps 5U4G and 5Y3 tubes in resolution and refinement.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Did you guys look at the front page article about the Toolshed Audio Euphoria 45?  Wow what a beautiful amp.  I don't even want to know it cost, but it sure has presence.


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Did you guys look at the front page article about the Toolshed Audio Euphoria 45?  Wow what a beautiful amp.  I don't even want to know it cost, but it sure has presence.



It probably don't sound that different then your amp.
https://head-fi.org/showcase/toolshed-amps-euphoria-stereo-45-dht.22593/reviews


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> It probably don't sound that different then your amp.
> https://head-fi.org/showcase/toolshed-amps-euphoria-stereo-45-dht.22593/reviews



I consider both that owner and myself to be pretty lucky people that we have the amps we have.


----------



## Rossliew

Must be the 45 tubes used that attracted your attention eh, Tyrell 

And thanks for the kind input on the Dragon as well.


----------



## ru4music (Aug 18, 2017)

Xcalibur255 said:


> I consider both that owner and myself to be pretty lucky people that we have the amps we have.



No Doubt (i.e. not the rock band), but I'm in agreement with your sentiments as I have an (EL3N) amp build in the pipeline as well!  I love the 45 tube type house sound which is why I've chosen to have Glenn build me his EL3N version.  BTW, The pizza/ pictures look amazing (re: previous posters) ... seriously: extremely amazing!!


----------



## gibosi

From a purely visual viewpoint, while the Raytheon 5CU4 doesn't have a sexy ST bottle, it does have a very nice glow, brighter than most.

For now, I am listening to an album I haven't heard before, Carol Welsman, "For You", so can't really say how it compares to other rectifiers.

Over the weekend, I hope to compare it to the 596, which to my ears, is the best American rectifier I own. But at least for this album, I am not hearing anything out of sorts. It seems to be a nice rectifier.


----------



## whirlwind

Love the glow on that 5CU4, that is a sexy tube.

Glenn sent a Hexfred and it arrived last night...I will pop it in this morning and have a listen.

Really digging the sound from the Loewe Radio AZ12,  it is wonderful.


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> Love the glow on that 5CU4, that is a sexy tube.
> 
> *Glenn sent a Hexfred and it arrived last night...I will pop it in this morning and have a listen.*
> 
> Really digging the sound from the Loewe Radio AZ12,  it is wonderful.



Where are you using the Hexfred, OTL or EL3N?


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> Where are you using the Hexfred, OTL or EL3N?




EL3N


----------



## Rossliew

whirlwind said:


> EL3N


Punchy sound you'll get


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Show us your project please



A very crude external DC heater power supply consisting of a surplus laptop DC power supply and an inexpensive adjustable step-down buck module converter.

This particular laptop supply is rated at 19 volts, 4.7 amps, which is considerably more than necessary for this project. A common wall wart rated at about 12 volts and 1 amp would be perfectly fine as two 76 or 37 draw a total of 0.6 amps. I cut off the jack, stripped the wires and connected them to the input of the buck converter. There is a set screw to adjust the voltage down to the desired level, in this case, 6.3 volts. (With my old Little Dot, I used to use this type of power supply to heat 8.4 and 12.6 volt tubes.) In the adapter, pins 7 and 8 are disconnected in the base and wires are run from the heater connections to the output of the buck converter. Pretty simple.

Based on my experience so far, this is not a cure-all. A noisy pair of Sylvania mesh plates has less ground hum, but is still unacceptably noisy. On the other hand, the noisy pair of National Union mesh plates pictured a few pages back is now quiet. And I also have a noisy pair of Ken-Rad to try later, but for now, I am enjoying the National Unions.


----------



## TonyNewman

EML 300B XLS - anyone used these beasts in a Glenn amp?

Been wanting to try them, but they are a touch off the standard 300B spec. Heater draw of 1.5A rather than 1.2/1.3 ... etc.

(I would have done a thread search, but that tool seems to be missing after the latest forum upgrade)

EML 300B XLS data


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> A very crude external DC heater power supply consisting of a surplus laptop DC power supply and an inexpensive adjustable step-down buck module converter.
> 
> This particular laptop supply is rated at 19 volts, 4.7 amps, which is considerably more than necessary for this project. A common wall wart rated at about 12 volts and 1 amp would be perfectly fine as two 76 or 37 draw a total of 0.6 amps. I cut off the jack, stripped the wires and connected them to the input of the buck converter. There is a set screw to adjust the voltage down to the desired level, in this case, 6.3 volts. (With my old Little Dot, I used to use this type of power supply to heat 8.4 and 12.6 volt tubes.) In the adapter, pins 7 and 8 are disconnected in the base and wires are run from the heater connections to the output of the buck converter. Pretty simple.
> 
> Based on my experience so far, this is not a cure-all. A noisy pair of Sylvania mesh plates has less ground hum, but is still unacceptably noisy. On the other hand, the noisy pair of National Union mesh plates pictured a few pages back is now quiet. And I also have a noisy pair of Ken-Rad to try later, but for now, I am enjoying the National Unions.



Great Job!
I will post my GOTL favorite setup soon after rolling 20 rectifier


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> A very crude external DC heater power supply consisting of a surplus laptop DC power supply and an inexpensive adjustable step-down buck module converter.
> 
> This particular laptop supply is rated at 19 volts, 4.7 amps, which is considerably more than necessary for this project. A common wall wart rated at about 12 volts and 1 amp would be perfectly fine as two 76 or 37 draw a total of 0.6 amps. I cut off the jack, stripped the wires and connected them to the input of the buck converter. There is a set screw to adjust the voltage down to the desired level, in this case, 6.3 volts. (With my old Little Dot, I used to use this type of power supply to heat 8.4 and 12.6 volt tubes.) In the adapter, pins 7 and 8 are disconnected in the base and wires are run from the heater connections to the output of the buck converter. Pretty simple.
> 
> Based on my experience so far, this is not a cure-all. A noisy pair of Sylvania mesh plates has less ground hum, but is still unacceptably noisy. On the other hand, the noisy pair of National Union mesh plates pictured a few pages back is now quiet. And I also have a noisy pair of Ken-Rad to try later, but for now, I am enjoying the National Unions.



You're going to be building your own amps before long.  Wish I had your drive for discovery in this hobby.


----------



## Khragon

TonyNewman said:


> EML 300B XLS - anyone used these beasts in a Glenn amp?
> 
> Been wanting to try them, but they are a touch off the standard 300B spec. Heater draw of 1.5A rather than 1.2/1.3 ... etc.
> 
> ...




I've been using them for a while.. They are neutral sounding tubes, with character changes depending on the current settings.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Great Job!
> I will post my GOTL favorite setup soon after rolling 20 rectifier



You are rolling through 20 different rectifiers?


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> You're going to be building your own amps before long.  Wish I had your drive for discovery in this hobby.



I doubt that I will be building amps anytime soon. lol. 

As I understand it, most of those here, such as yourself, are working full-time jobs with very busy lives. But I am an old geezer, 70 years old and retired. Searching for new tubes helps me stay young and perhaps even keeps Alzheimers at bay.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> You are rolling through 20 different rectifiers?



Yes.

I have tried:
- GZ 34 metal
- GZ 34 Philips
- GZ 34 teonex
- GZ 34 NEC
- AZ 12 Telefunken
- AZ 4
- GZ 30 Mullard
- 1805 Philips
- Sicte 5S34
- 80
- 83
- 5Y3GT philips, POPE, Sylvania, NEC
- 5931
- Mazda GZ32
- 3DG4
- GEC 5U4G


----------



## rosgr63

gibosi said:


> I doubt that I will be building amps anytime soon. lol.
> 
> As I understand it, most of those here, such as yourself, are working full-time jobs with very busy lives. But I am an old geezer, 70 years old and retired. Searching for new tubes helps me stay young and perhaps even keeps Alzheimers at bay.



Ken you are doing such a great job well done!!!!

Old Geezer??????????? No way, young at heart with a fresh mind, I wish I was like you so methodical and always experimenting.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> A very crude external DC heater power supply consisting of a surplus laptop DC power supply and an inexpensive adjustable step-down buck module converter.
> 
> This particular laptop supply is rated at 19 volts, 4.7 amps, which is considerably more than necessary for this project. A common wall wart rated at about 12 volts and 1 amp would be perfectly fine as two 76 or 37 draw a total of 0.6 amps. I cut off the jack, stripped the wires and connected them to the input of the buck converter. There is a set screw to adjust the voltage down to the desired level, in this case, 6.3 volts. (With my old Little Dot, I used to use this type of power supply to heat 8.4 and 12.6 volt tubes.) In the adapter, pins 7 and 8 are disconnected in the base and wires are run from the heater connections to the output of the buck converter. Pretty simple.
> 
> Based on my experience so far, this is not a cure-all. A noisy pair of Sylvania mesh plates has less ground hum, but is still unacceptably noisy. On the other hand, the noisy pair of National Union mesh plates pictured a few pages back is now quiet. And I also have a noisy pair of Ken-Rad to try later, but for now, I am enjoying the National Unions.




Ha! Great job Ken.

I love the use of the rubber band and the tube boxes  

I spy a LD1+ too...at least I think I do.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Yes.
> 
> I have tried:
> - GZ 34 metal
> ...



You have been busy!


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Ha! Great job Ken.
> 
> I love the use of the rubber band and the tube boxes
> 
> I spy a LD1+ too...at least I think I do.



Yes, the LD1+ is there and I finally found a good use for a 5-pack of 6CB6A I had laying around. lol


----------



## gibosi

rosgr63 said:


> Ken you are doing such a great job well done!!!!
> 
> Old Geezer??????????? No way, young at heart with a fresh mind, I wish I was like you so methodical and always experimenting.



Thank you for your kind words.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> I doubt that I will be building amps anytime soon. lol.
> 
> As I understand it, most of those here, such as yourself, are working full-time jobs with very busy lives. But I am an old geezer, 70 years old and retired. Searching for new tubes helps me stay young and perhaps even keeps Alzheimers at bay.



You never know, I bet you'd be great at it.

Your posts are always interesting and contain a wealth of information.  Very few people think to go looking for the kinds of things you have been finding.  It's exactly the sort of thing that has always made this place great.


----------



## whirlwind

Been listening with the hexfred rectifier for about a week, it sounds wonderful.

To be honest, everything sounds wonderful in this amp, much like how everything sounds wonderful in the OTL amp.


----------



## leftside

Just need the 300B now to complete the set


----------



## ru4music

leftside said:


> Just need the 300B now to complete the set


----------



## Khragon

leftside said:


> Just need the 300B now to complete the set


----------



## TonyNewman

The 300B is a special amp indeed. Some words of advice if you do go that way ...

Go for solid state rectification. A failed PY500 can be catastrophic. Even the best rectifiers out there (TA274B, for example) degrade performance compared to hexfred SS (confirmed on my buddy's WA22). They also cost a bomb - why bother? Get the tube goodness from the 300B. Save the cash that would have gone on rectifiers and buy better 300Bs.
If you do go SS rectification, ask Glenn about some form of soft start. A timer delay or a switchable resister, for example. You need something otherwise the current spike on start up might cause damage to tubes and/or blow fuses.
I can't hear any difference between the different flavours of C3g. I have bought up a stash of Siemens 'basic' C3gs. Enough to last until I croak. I tried the very early production tubes and Telefunken 'S' types... etc. I can't hear a difference (but some folks claim they can).

I can't recommend Chinese made 300Bs at all. I know some folks have had success with the Shuguang tubes, but I have had nothing but trouble with Psvane, TJ Full Music (who make the Sophia range also) and Shuguang. Even the premium tubes (Psvane WE300B replica and TJ FM King) have been nothing but trouble for me. Why risk it when are quality alternatives from Europe and/or Japan?

I would recommend the EML 300B plate tube as a great starting point. Solid, reliable and nice sounding. Excellent tube for the money (I have my set running right now). If you have the cash think about the TA300B. They are expensive, but sound fantastic and are built to last. Burn in 300 hours for these - a long time, but worth it. The new production ER300Bs are worth considering, but the jury is perhaps still out on reliability. Mine are working fine so far, and sounding great, but they have only about 100 hours on them. If they are still going strong after 2000 hours I will be satisfied. 
There is something a 300B amp can do that EL3N cannot - throw 8W into a headphone. Some cans _need _that amount of juice. Many cans _like _that amount of juice.

And I just like the look of stonking great big fat 300Bs, glowing away fiercely (is that over-compensating for something? A bit like Mustang drivers?) 

<ducks and prepares for deluge of angry denials from Mustang owners>


----------



## whirlwind

I love the look of the 300B amps...but no way I am going that route.

I don't think I will be doing a 300B amp...tubes are too pricey for me. I could buy new cans for the price of some of those tubes, lol

I do not use speakers, so the EL3N amp works just fine for me and my headphones.

I do not own a headphone that needs 8 watts....not even close

The EL3N is killer for the price, wonderful bang for the buck

Not to say I may not go for another amp from Glenn , when  he comes up with something else sometime....or maybe a small footprint preamp of some kind.


----------



## Khragon

How are the Elrogs doing Tony, last time I tried Elrogs, their sound signature wasn't to my liking, a bit thin, doesn't have that 300B body and mid-range sweetness.  I 2nd TA300B recommendation, if not I would go with EML 300B XLS, set the current to 80mA and enjoy a really clear yet musical tube, it has some of that TA300B magic, just not all of it, considering the price delta, I still call that a win.


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> ...
> I don't think I will be doing a 300B amp...tubes are too pricey for me. I could buy new cans for the price of some of those tubes, lol....



I totally get that. Tube rolling with 300Bs requires a hefty financial commitment that might easily be better spent elsewhere. I love the sound and looks of the 300B, but decent examples are pricey.


----------



## TonyNewman

Khragon said:


> How are the Elrogs doing Tony, last time I tried Elrogs, their sound signature wasn't to my liking, a bit thin, doesn't have that 300B body and mid-range sweetness.  I 2nd TA300B recommendation, if not I would go with EML 300B XLS, set the current to 80mA and enjoy a really clear yet musical tube, it has some of that TA300B magic, just not all of it, considering the price delta, I still call that a win.



After about 100 hours I am starting to get some sweetness from my ER300Bs. I am liking this tube quite a lot. To my ears it is _technically _superior to the TA300B, but doesn't beat what the TA300B does to the mid range. 90% of my listening is vocal-centric, and those Taks just do divine things with the mids. If the ER300Bs continue to sweeten up, then it would replace the TA300B as my favorite tube. Not quite there yet, but its close. My bigger concern is with ER300B reliability. The history is not good for the tubes or the warranty support. The new management is promised great improvements in both departments - time will tell.

Was thinking about the EML 300B XLS, but decided to order the EML 300B mesh instead. The XLS will have to wait a while. I did confirm with Glenn that the extra heater draw of 1.5A of the XLS is OK for my amp. I am slightly concerned about how much extra heat this tube might generate in my amp, but only mildly. Another benefit of going to SS rectification is that my amp runs quite a bit cooler than it used to.

Having said all this, I have the EML plate 300Bs in right now and they are sounding very, very good indeed. A really great sounding tube. Good value for the SQ it delivers.


----------



## Khragon

Let us know what you think of the EML 300B mesh, I tried them before and found the sound too tubey for my liking.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 25, 2017)

Khragon....between the Eikon & Atticus...which would you say has the best bass ?

I have the Ori, and the bass is so much fun.

Looking to add an Eikon or Atticus around December.

Maybe I should ask which headphone's bass is the most fun ?


----------



## TonyNewman

Khragon said:


> Let us know what you think of the EML 300B mesh, I tried them before and found the sound too tubey for my liking.



"tubey" is what I am looking for. With SS rectification and C3g drivers, the tube character comes from 300B in my amp (as best I can tell). So an extra juicy 300B might just be the ticket.


----------



## ru4music

TonyNewman said:


> The 300B is a special amp indeed. Some words of advice if you do go that way ...
> 
> Go for solid state rectification. A failed PY500 can be catastrophic. Even the best rectifiers out there (TA274B, for example) degrade performance compared to hexfred SS (confirmed on my buddy's WA22). They also cost a bomb - why bother? Get the tube goodness from the 300B. Save the cash that would have gone on rectifiers and buy better 300Bs.
> If you do go SS rectification, ask Glenn about some form of soft start. A timer delay or a switchable resister, for example. You need something otherwise the current spike on start up might cause damage to tubes and/or blow fuses.
> ...


Thanks Tony for sharing your impressions, much appreciated!  FWIW, is your buddy @Badas?  If so, I miss sharing some posts with him!


----------



## ru4music (Aug 25, 2017)

whirlwind said:


> I love the look of the 300B amps...but no way I am going that route.
> 
> I don't think I will be doing a 300B amp...tubes are too pricey for me. I could buy new cans for the price of some of those tubes, lol
> 
> ...



FYI for all looking for a speaker output; the legendary  ElectroVoice 12TRBX is an excellent 12" single point source (true coaxial) driver.  Excels in an open/ infinite baffle designs and is relatively cheap at ~$150 - !90/ pr. per in good working condition.

Oh, it offers a 101dB/ @ 1 watt/ @ 1 meter sensitivity rating by current standards.


----------



## TonyNewman

ru4music said:


> Thanks Tony for sharing your impressions, much appreciated!  FWIW, is your buddy @Badas?  If so, I miss sharing some posts with him!



Yes - Badas (Dono) lives about 10 minutes away from me in the southern suburbs of Auckland. We share a lot of experiences in the headfi journey. Dono is still around, but like me has become a bit disillusioned with most of the forums (the Glenn thread being an exception). He can be PM'ed, of course.


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> Thanks Tony for sharing your impressions, much appreciated!  FWIW, is your buddy @Badas?  If so, I miss sharing some posts with him!



Yeah! Tony and I are HP mates. I lurk around. More of a reader now rather than a poster. 

I hope everyone is well.


----------



## Khragon (Aug 26, 2017)

TonyNewman said:


> "tubey" is what I am looking for. With SS rectification and C3g drivers, the tube character comes from 300B in my amp (as best I can tell). So an extra juicy 300B might just be the ticket.



I see... I don't remember liking any EML mesh tubes, their mesh rectifier was also bloomy to my ears when I had the WA5.

I think you have the Schiit Freya pre-amp right? You can try replacing the gain tubes (the set on the right) with a pair that have warmer sound signature.  I recommend Brimar CV1988 to get that additional warmth without loosing too much detail.


----------



## TonyNewman

Khragon said:


> I see... I don't remember liking any EML mesh tubes, their mesh rectifier was also bloomy to my ears when I had the WA5.
> 
> I think you have the Schiit Freya pre-amp right? You can try replacing the gain tubes (the set on the right) with a pair that have warmer sound signature.  I recommend Brimar CV1988 to get that additional warmth without loosing too much detail.



I am no longer using the Freya. My chain is PC -> Metrum Pavane -> Glenn 300B -> HE1000v2.


----------



## whirlwind

TonyNewman said:


> I am no longer using the Freya. My chain is PC -> Metrum Pavane -> Glenn 300B -> HE1000v2.



Very nice, if I lived only ten minutes away.....I would be over.


----------



## ru4music

Badas said:


> Yeah! Tony and I are HP mates. I lurk around. More of a reader now rather than a poster.
> 
> *I hope everyone is well.*



Likewise, good to hear from you!


----------



## leftside

I considered the SS rectifier on the 300B, but I much prefer the look of the amp with the tube rectifiers. I've also had no problems with the amp as is. The 300B tubes are expensive though - yes the same price as my headphones! I did a lot of tube rolling with my WA22, and this time around I just went for some of the best 300B tubes and have thankfully (for my wallet) left it at that, and haven't done any tube rolling apart from finding the quietest rectifiers.

It's certainly nice to have options when you purchase a Glenn.


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> I considered the SS rectifier on the 300B, but I much prefer the look of the amp with the tube rectifiers. I've also had no problems with the amp as is. The 300B tubes are expensive though - yes the same price as my headphones! I did a lot of tube rolling with my WA22, and this time around I just went for some of the best 300B tubes and have thankfully (for my wallet) left it at that, and haven't done any tube rolling apart from finding the quietest rectifiers.
> 
> It's certainly nice to have options when you purchase a Glenn.



I hope you never have a PY500 go bad on you. I can be very, very unpleasant. Mine shorted and tripped my house circuit breaker, and that created a surge that wiped out a DAC USB feed. Fried it completely. That is nasty. I know that Glenn himself has also recently had a bad experience with a failed PY500 that was quite expensive. A failed rectifier can be much more damaging than a failed driver or output tube, in my experience.

You don't have to miss the PY500 glow. My amp has been modded (locally here in NZ) to supply the PY500s with heater current (only) and soft start for the SS rectification. I get the PY500 glow with little risk of a failed PY500 causing mayhem. The amp is super detailed and transparent AND I get the tube loving of the 300B. It really is a spectacular amp (visually and for SQ). My Master 9 SS amp does *slightly *better in the technicalities, but there is not much difference. My Glenn 300B certainly beats the pants off some of the other SS amps I have owned in terms of transparency/detail (looking at you - 430HA and Taurus - both very much over rated amps IMHO).

After a heck of a lot of pain and suffering I have become a big believer in SS rectification for tube amps for 2 reasons:
1) Safety / Damage limitation. A shorted rectifier can do all sorts of evil, like tripping a house circuit breaker and that can have unpleasant consequences. I have had a 300B burn itself out to cherry red - and that was nowhere near as bad as what a shorted rectifier did to me.
2) SQ - you really don't know what you are missing until you install the SS rectification. Deeper, fuller, punchier bass is probably the biggest single improvement. Overall detail level bumps up a notch or two also. If you want a more transparent tube amp, then think about SS rectification. Get some juicy, warm 300Bs and you will have plenty of tube loving combined with a level of detail/transparency that only the very best SS amps can compete with.


----------



## Rossliew

Tony, don't you find the M9 too smooth and lacking in grunt considering its rated power output?


----------



## Khragon

Glenn is looking into building an SS rectifier adapter with the soft start.. Hopefully he will be able to get it done, then we can have the options.


----------



## TonyNewman

Rossliew said:


> Tony, don't you find the M9 too smooth and lacking in grunt considering its rated power output?



Can't say I have. It drives the HE6 just fine. I find it very transparent and capable.


----------



## Rossliew

TonyNewman said:


> Can't say I have. It drives the HE6 just fine. I find it very transparent and capable.



INteresting. I've auditioned the M9 with its M7 DAC plus the HE1K and it definitely sounded soft. No bite, no thumping bass. Perhaps your Metrum has a hand in it.

Did you mention it driving the HE-6 well?


----------



## leftside (Aug 27, 2017)

I've tried SS rectifiers before with tube amps and preferred the tube rectifiers. My tube DAC comes as standard with a SS rectifier and an optional upgrade is a tube rectifier. Most people go for the upgrade.

I've had rectifiers blow before. All that happened was on the first occasion the fuse in the amp blew, and on the second occasion my power conditioner/bar caught it. Going through your threads it seems you've had a lot of bad luck, so I can totally see why you want to minimize any further damages.


----------



## TonyNewman (Aug 27, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> INteresting. I've auditioned the M9 with its M7 DAC plus the HE1K and it definitely sounded soft. No bite, no thumping bass. Perhaps your Metrum has a hand in it.
> 
> Did you mention it driving the HE-6 well?



Yep - plenty of grunt to drive the HE6. About 9W I think - in balanced mode. More than sufficient. The 300B throws about 8W, as does the 430HA. All pack the gear to drive my HE6 properly, as does the V281.

I would point the dirty finger of blame at the M7 DAC. I have not heard any Audio GD DACs, and have no desire to. They don't have a stellar reputation with some folks whose opinion I listen to. Reputed to be tuned to the soft and gooey side, as you mention.

The M9 is very transparent. If anything I would put it more to the clinical side (like the Taurus) than the soft and gooey (430HA). Think of a more neutral version of the V281, without the sometimes loose bass and occasional screetchy treble that that amp can sometimes show (in my experience - I'm sure plenty will disagree). If anything, I would add a tiny splash of extra warmth to the M9 if I could, but there is no such thing as a perfect amp (or DAC, or whatever).

As always, system synergy is the thing. The Pavane is a R2R NOS DAC and the HEKv2 is a somewhat relaxed headphone. In this chain the M9 works well for me. I could imagine it being a bit cold and clinical sounding in other setups. I doubt I would like it much with a Vega DAC and HD800, for example.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks for the clarification there, Tony. What I heard could be the HEK's softness instead of the amps sound sig. Ite a huge amp though and definitely a room heater as well.


----------



## gibosi

Really enjoying these old triodes 

(I think that red spot is nail polish. It was on the tube when I received it.)

.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> I've tried SS rectifiers before with tube amps and preferred the tube rectifiers. My tube DAC comes as standard with a SS rectifier and an optional upgrade is a tube rectifier. Most people go for the upgrade.
> 
> I've had rectifiers blow before. All that happened was on the first occasion the fuse in the amp blew, and on the second occasion my power conditioner/bar caught it. Going through your threads it seems you've had a lot of bad luck, so I can totally see why you want to minimize any further damages.




In my EL3N amp, the hexfred rectifier sounds wonderful, but I really can not say that it sounds better than my favorite tube rectifiers. I quite enjoy the tube rectifiers.


----------



## gibosi

And it is the same for me with the OTL. I think the hexfred sounds great, but at least to my ears, it doesn't sound better than my favorite tubes. 

However, it is worth noting, Glenn designed my OTL (and Whirlwind's EL3N) around a tube rectifier, with a specific voltage drop. Swapping in a plug-in hexfred, which has essentially no voltage drop, changes the way the amp is biased. So, an EL3N or OTL built from the ground up with hexfreds may well sound different...


----------



## gibosi

And speaking of rectifiers, I received a Canadian Rogers 5X4G today. The 5X4G is electrically identical to the 5U4G but the pin-out is different. That is, it needs an adapter.

When I first removed it from the box,  I noticed that it looks virtually identical to the Canadian Westinghouse VU71, with the exception of the top mica. The VU71 is an old British military number for a U52/5U4G. Hope to find some time to compare them soon....


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> And speaking of rectifiers, I received a Canadian Rogers 5X4G today. The 5X4G is electrically identical to the 5U4G but the pin-out is different. That is, it needs an adapter.
> 
> When I first removed it from the box,  I noticed that it looks virtually identical to the Canadian Westinghouse VU71, with the exception of the top mica. The VU71 is an old British military number for a U52/5U4G. Hope to find some time to compare them soon....


Nice tubes

Love to hear your impression for these tubes


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> In my EL3N amp, the hexfred rectifier sounds wonderful, but I really can not say that it sounds better than my favorite tube rectifiers. I quite enjoy the tube rectifiers.



To each their own. I found that the loss of transparency/detail in general, and the loss of bass punch and heft specifically, was significant enough to make me want to say goodbye to tube rectifiers forever. Another bunch of tubes to buy and roll and mess about with ... nah, not for me. I have also had some bad experiences with failed PY500s that have made me doubly keen to switch over to SS rectification.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Once I got used to the HEXFREDs I found it was literally impossible to go back to tube rectification.  The amp quite simply doesn't sound as good with the tubes doing that duty.  There really is no downside to the HEXFREDs in my mind, unless you simply cannot let go of some of your tube glow.  But I'm here to listen to my amp, not stare at it.  I was very worried that the amp would lose tone color or sound "whitewashed" with the SS components, but not only did this not happen I found an improvement in this area in addition to the obvious gains in resolution and bass performance.

Nice to see I have another preacher at the church of HEXFRED finally.  Welcome aboard Tony!


----------



## Rossliew

When I had my otl and EL3N amps I too used the hexfreds a lot. They provided that little bit extra dynamics and solidity to the sound. Hard to ignore. Definitely super bang for the buck considering the cost of the hexfreds compared to some of the top tier nos tube rectifiers


----------



## TonyNewman

Xcalibur255 said:


> Once I got used to the HEXFREDs I found it was literally impossible to go back to tube rectification.  The amp quite simply doesn't sound as good with the tubes doing that duty.  There really is no downside to the HEXFREDs in my mind, unless you simply cannot let go of some of your tube glow.  But I'm here to listen to my amp, not stare at it.  I was very worried that the amp would lose tone color or sound "whitewashed" with the SS components, but not only did this not happen I found an improvement in this area in addition to the obvious gains in resolution and bass performance.
> 
> Nice to see I have another preacher at the church of HEXFRED finally.  Welcome aboard Tony!



While I am an advocate for SS rectification in tube amps for reasons of SQ, cost and reliability/safety, I am not using Hexfreds. My amp was built with PY500 rectifiers and there is no 'plug in' hexfred option available (I tried). So my amp has been modded for SS bridge rectification, soft start switch, and retains the heater current to the PY500s - so I keep the lovely rectifier glow 

I can understand that some folks prefer the extra 'tubiness' that tube rectification can give, I have found it unnecessary with my 300B amp. The more juicy 300Bs provide plenty of tube character, while I also get detail, punch and dynamics that are scary close to a high end SS amp (and beat some of them). To my ears it really is getting the best sonics of both tube and SS in one package, but we all hear these things differently.

The very best rectifier I have ever used is the TA274B. A rather wonderful tube, but I would take SS rectification over it purely on sonics every time. Throw in the cost of these things and it is an easy decision for me.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Aug 30, 2017)

TonyNewman said:


> While I am an advocate for SS rectification in tube amps for reasons of SQ, cost and reliability/safety, I am not using Hexfreds. My amp was built with PY500 rectifiers and there is no 'plug in' hexfred option available (I tried). So my amp has been modded for SS bridge rectification, soft start switch, and retains the heater current to the PY500s - so I keep the lovely rectifier glow


Quite right, but the diodes used to build your bridge should be HEXFRED diodes right?  They're no different than other diodes aside from the fact that their faster switching speed makes them better suited for audio use, hence the nice SQ.  If you used a different type of diode when you had your amp worked on I'd be interested to know more about what kind it is since you like the sound so much.  I was under the impression that you had hexfred diodes used for the changes to your amp.

I guess they could also be Schottky diodes, but I thought the consensus was that hexfreds were better overall.


----------



## TonyNewman (Aug 30, 2017)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Quite right, but the diodes used to build your bridge should be HEXFRED diodes right?  They're no different than other diodes aside from the fact that their faster switching speed makes them better suited for audio use, hence the nice SQ.  If you used a different type of diode when you had your amp worked on I'd be interested to know more about what kind it is since you like the sound so much.  I was under the impression that you had hexfred diodes used for the changes to your amp.
> 
> I guess they could also be Schottky diodes, but I thought the consensus was that hexfreds were better overall.



Ah - I misunderstood - my bad - sorry. Hexfreds were indeed used to build the rectification bridge (it is itemized in the parts for the service invoice - I just checked).

I was only thinking about Hexfreds as the plugin rectifier replacement.

The level of punch and slam I am getting in the bass from the SS rectification is rather awesome. Very unlike any other tube amp I have heard. I like it.

EDIT - this led me to do some digging on SS rectification for tube amps and Hexfreds are indeed the dog's nuts for this application:

Quoting from a discussion thread here:

_Amps using Silicon diodes can sound harsh and brittle because the diodes are slower in response than a tube rectifier(they're so nice). By replacing the diodes with FREDs or Schottkys your amp
will have a smoother/sweeter top end, more detailed tone definition and be a touch more responsive. FREDs are much faster than the cheaper diodes that most amp manufactures use...
_
I would agree with all the above points regarding SQ improvements with the Hexfreds. To my ears the improvement is much more noticeable in the bottom end than the top end, but that might just be me.


----------



## gibosi

IMO, there is no rectifier that is the "best" in every system. All rectifiers, even SS, have a unique sonic signature. And further, I would suggest that what one person might find to be the best in a 45 or 300B amp may or may not be true of other amps.

To my mind, it boils down to synergy. In the OTL as opposed to the 45 and 300B, the variety of output tubes that can be used -- 6AS7, 5998, 6080, 6336, 6BL7, 6BX7 among others -- is quite large. And then when you add to that the huge variety of 6SN7, to say nothing about 5687, ECC40, ECC32 or even 80 year old globe triodes, the sonic combinations are almost endless. Again, in my experience, with something like 50 different rectifiers on hand, no one rectifier is best in every case.

For example, recently I rolled in a pair of Sylvania mesh-plate globes and I immediately noticed that the treble was a bit much with a GEC U52. So I switched to a Holland-made GZ34, and consequently, the Sylvanias revealed themselves to be wonderful.

While I think the hexfred sounds great, at least to my ears, its sonic signature is not always the best in every situation. And in my OTL with 5-volt rectification, safety has not been a concern. For sure, I have experienced rectifier fatalities on a number of occasions, but the fuse has always worked as intended. In the end, the ability to use tube rectifiers to allow any combination of driver/output tubes to sound their very best is totally worth it. But of course, my ears and my gear. YMMV.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> IMO, there is no rectifier that is the "best" in every system. All rectifiers, even SS, have a unique sonic signature. And further, I would suggest that what one person might find to be the best in a 45 or 300B amp may or may not be true of other amps.
> 
> To my mind, it boils down to synergy. In the OTL as opposed to the 45 and 300B, the variety of output tubes that can be used -- 6AS7, 5998, 6080, 6336, 6BL7, 6BX7 among others -- is quite large. And then when you add to that the huge variety of 6SN7, to say nothing about 5687, ECC40, ECC32 or even 80 year old globe triodes, the sonic combinations are almost endless. Again, in my experience, with something like 50 different rectifiers on hand, no one rectifier is best in every case.
> 
> ...



Wow, you got GEC U52! Nice tube
You prefer GEC U52 or GZ34?


----------



## rosgr63

Couldn't agree more Ken, and you have done extensive testing on rectifiers.
With a tube rectifier you have the option to change the sound for better or worst.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Wow, you got GEC U52! Nice tube
> You prefer GEC U52 or GZ34?



It depends... To my mind, they are equally good, but slightly different. With some driver/output tube combinations, I prefer the U52. And with other combinations, I prefer the GZ34. And of course, then there are the hexfreds, the Cossor 53KU and a number of the European 4-volt rectifiers. Again, all equally good, but slightly different.


----------



## leftside

Mentioning some of my favorite rectifier tubes there. U52, GZ34, Cossor 53KU (top favorite).

I still might get an OTL amp sometime. I have a lot of those other tubes you mention as well (ECC31 - ECC35, 5998, 6SN7's, 6080's, 6BL7, 6BX7, etc).


----------



## whirlwind

I just popped the 3DG4 rectifier in  and it sounds wonderful, listening to some slow blues with the ZMF Ori.

I like this rectifier and especially with the ZMF Ori for some reason....I will get another one or two....cost like $4


----------



## 2359glenn

Also try the 5CU4 powerful rectifier the hell with expensive rectifiers.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I just popped the 3DG4 rectifier in  and it sounds wonderful, listening to some slow blues with the ZMF Ori.
> 
> I like this rectifier and especially with the ZMF Ori for some reason....I will get another one or two....cost like $4



It appears that the 3DG4 was manufactured by RCA, GE, and Tung-Sol, as these companies actually published datasheets for this tube. And even though I have not seen a datasheet, I am pretty sure that Sylvania also manufactured this tube. Do you know which one you have?


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 1, 2017)

Thanks Glenn, I will try a 5CU4 sometime.

My 3DG4 is a GE tube Ken.


----------



## 2359glenn

It's not a secret that my favorite rectifier is the 3DG4. I give one with most of my amplifiers.


----------



## rosgr63

Trator.......what about the 5AU4??????


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Trator.......what about the 5AU4??????



Traitor?   What is that in your amp? I see a Sylvania 3DG4 in your avatar picture


----------



## rosgr63

But of course I'm a fan too, but I also like the 5AU4's you sent me.


----------



## gibosi

Perhaps someone will do a "shootout" between the 3DG4, 5AU4 and 5CU4?


----------



## rosgr63

Who better than  you Ken


----------



## gibosi

I'm up to my ears in old triodes at the moment... But maybe someday...


----------



## gibosi

Glenn,

Do you have any experience with the 5842/417A triodes?


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn, this is a wonderful way to start a long weekend.  Dark roast coffee and music!


 

 



Have a great long and safe weekend everybody.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> It appears that the 3DG4 was manufactured by RCA, GE, and Tung-Sol, as these companies actually published datasheets for this tube. And even though I have not seen a datasheet, I am pretty sure that Sylvania also manufactured this tube. Do you know which one you have?



May see if i can find an RCA, Tung Sol and a Sylvania


----------



## gibosi

In my experience, the Tung-Sol 3DG4 is not as common as the others. And given rebranding and the fact that the construction of these tubes from maker to maker is very similar, determining the manufacturer can be a little difficult. However, if the eBay listing has good pictures, you should see "U.S.A. 3" etched below the hexagram on a Tung-Sol-made 3DG4.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> In my experience, the Tung-Sol 3DG4 is not as common as the others. And given rebranding and the fact that the construction of these tubes from maker to maker is very similar, determining the manufacturer can be a little difficult. However, if the eBay listing has good pictures, you should see "U.S.A. 3" etched below the hexagram on a Tung-Sol-made 3DG4.



Thanks


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 5, 2017)

I feel that the original Zenith and Tung-Sol are the best and think that the Zenith were made by Tung-Sol.
And # 2 is the Sylvania.
I only know of these being used in Zenith TVs now in my amps.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> I feel that the original Zenith and Tung-Sol are the best and think that the Zenith were made by Tung-Sol.
> And # 2 is the Sylvania.
> I only know of these being used in *Zenith TVs* now in my amps.



For those of us old enough to remember, "The quality goes in before the name goes on!" - *Zenith TVs *


----------



## gibosi

I have three Zenith 3DG4, one made by Sylvania, one by GE and one by Tung-Sol. And interestingly, I also have a Tung-Sol labeled GE! lol


----------



## whirlwind

I just popped in a 5AW4 this morning.

I originally bought this tube when my OTL amp was being made by Glenn, but I decided to go with the Lundahl tranny and the PY500 rectifier tubes.

I can now use this tube in the GEL3N amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I just popped in a 5AW4 this morning.
> 
> I originally bought this tube when my OTL amp was being made by Glenn, but I decided to go with the Lundahl tranny and the PY500 rectifier tubes.
> 
> I can now use this tube in the GEL3N amp.



The 5AW4 is a interesting tube with a V in the plates for the filament/cathode to go trough.
How does it sound in the EL3N amp??


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 7, 2017)

gibosi said:


> IMO, there is no rectifier that is the "best" in every system. All rectifiers, even SS, have a unique sonic signature. And further, I would suggest that what one person might find to be the best in a 45 or 300B amp may or may not be true of other amps.
> 
> To my mind, it boils down to synergy. In the OTL as opposed to the 45 and 300B, the variety of output tubes that can be used -- 6AS7, 5998, 6080, 6336, 6BL7, 6BX7 among others -- is quite large. And then when you add to that the huge variety of 6SN7, to say nothing about 5687, ECC40, ECC32 or even 80 year old globe triodes, the sonic combinations are almost endless. Again, in my experience, with something like 50 different rectifiers on hand, no one rectifier is best in every case.
> 
> ...



It's not and hasn't ever been my intention to assert that anything is the "best" since, as you've eloquently pointed out, that's subjective and subject to multiple variables.  I do however, as bold as it may seem, assert that the HEXFREDs are the most _accurate_ sounding solution and I treat that as fact.  Any and all tubes when compared exhibit overt colorations and biases in some area.  Of course accurate doesn't automatically = the best.  Some people enjoy a system that is deliberately not accurate much more and that's a perfectly okay preference to have. 

I just want to clarify where I'm coming from in my previous comments on the subject.


----------



## TonyNewman

Xcalibur255 said:


> It's not and hasn't ever been my intention to assert that anything is the "best" since, as you've eloquently pointed out, that's subjective and subject to multiple variables.  I do however, as bold as it may seem, assert that the HEXFREDs are the most _accurate_ sounding solution and I treat that as fact.  Any and all tubes when compared exhibit overt colorations and biases in some area.  Of course accurate doesn't automatically = the best.  Some people enjoy a system that is deliberately not accurate much more and that's a perfectly okay preference to have.
> 
> I just want to clarify where I'm coming from in my previous comments on the subject.



Well said. That was how I should have put my preference as well - the HEXFREDS are the most transparent rectification option to my ears, and I find that particularly noticeable in the bass. For me, and my ears, the 300B output tube provides enough 'tubiness' to make me happy - I don't need any further tube coloration from the rectifier - but that's me. I perfectly get it if others like to have additional flavor from the rectification stage. More power to them.


----------



## gibosi (Sep 7, 2017)

People with more experience than I point out that not all SS rectifiers sound the same. And therefore, I submit that they too add some coloration to the sound. That said, I am willing to concede that the hexfreds are likely more neutral than any tube. But then again, many hexfred enthusiasts state that its real appeal is that it sounds more "tube like" than other SS rectifiers.

In the end, what each of us perceives as "neutral" and "transparent" is extremely subjective. But when the dust settles, all that matters is that the music makes us smile and maybe even gets our toes tapping.


----------



## rosgr63

Xcalibur255 said:


> It's not and hasn't ever been my intention to assert that anything is the "best" since, as you've eloquently pointed out, that's subjective and subject to multiple variables.  I do however, as bold as it may seem, assert that the HEXFREDs are the most _accurate_ sounding solution and I treat that as fact.  Any and all tubes when compared exhibit overt colorations and biases in some area.  Of course accurate doesn't automatically = the best.  Some people enjoy a system that is deliberately not accurate much more and that's a perfectly okay preference to have.
> 
> I just want to clarify where I'm coming from in my previous comments on the subject.



Well said, personal preferences are just than.
Under lab conditions it would be different.

We just love and enjoy music.


----------



## leftside

Plenty of debate on the internet regarding "accuracy". Here is one:
http://blog.thetubestore.com/tube-vs-solid-state-why-do-tubes-sound-better/
"The odd-order harmonics produced by solidstate amplifiers produce a edgy or cut-off sound. Often this is viewed as more “accurate” sounding, but the reality is it is also largely the cause of listener fatigue. It is not natural distortion or add to the original signal positively, and good ears with tire of it quickly."

Not sure there is a right or wrong answer here. The important thing is you are enjoying your current system. If you go through the posts of a bunch of us on here, you'll see there have been quite a few changes/upgrades to our respective systems. Just recently though, those same people (me included) seem to have more stable systems. We must be happier with our current choices


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The 5AW4 is a interesting tube with a V in the plates for the filament/cathode to go trough.
> How does it sound in the EL3N amp??



Hi Glenn.

It sounds very good in the EL3N amp.  After having quite a few hours on the EL3N amp now, the rectifiers change the sound, but it is not big changes, and while I have my favorite rectifiers
these cheaper rectifiers are the way to go for the bang for the buck, and still have a very textured sound with layers and bass that is top notch with my planar cans.
The changes in sound to the rectifier seem much smaller, than say, changing power tubes or driver in the OTL amp.

These EL3N tubes sound fantastic, once you find four that match up well and are quiet. the bass sound is quite addicting  as is the very big sound overall from two stage mode of the amp.
I have not listened to the HD800 with this amp for a few weeks now.

I am enjoying the planar's way too much, the make the HD800 bass sound like there is a lot missing.

I have been only listening to stage two mode of the amp lately and with *ALL *of the rectifiers that I have, I love the sound

I will be buying some more different cheaper 5 volt rectifiers for myself, I will just have to do some research on what ones to try that won;t break the bank.

On the SS/Tube rectifier front....the difference is not much noticeable to me...maybe my ears, who knows
I have never been much on measurements, and trying to chase down the perfect sound or more accurate sound, because I will be like a dog chasing his tail, and I just want to enjoy my music,
It is all subjective, so I just listen to what makes my head bob and my feet tap.
I love the sound with tubes and have had a fascination with them since I was a kid, when I followed my father around his T.V. repair shop, with "tubes in hand"
Tubes also give me fond memories of my father, and this is wonderful when listening to music.


----------



## 2359glenn

The EL3N amp draws low current through the rectifier about 100ma so the voltage drop will be small.
So the difference in rectifiers will be small so try the low cost ones. And any 5 volt rectifier will work fine.
This is why there is little difference between the SS and tube rectifiers
Unlike the OTL at over 200ma and 300B at over 180ma.
So have fun with cheep rectifiers.


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks Glenn, I have a list of all 5 volt rectifiers...I need to sort through it a little and figure out what I would like
Definitely getting a Tung Sol 3DG4 also.


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 9, 2017)

Of course you can use Ken's 4 volt rectifiers with a adapter. If you want to use the more powerful 4 volt
tubes you will have to send the adapter to me so I can wire it as a 3DG4 and not over heat
the adapter.


----------



## gibosi

A little tube porn 

Arcturus No. 127.

Typically these go for as much as $100 a pair. You might think that that isn't such a bad price for a pair, but in my experience, there is at best a 50/50 chance that this tube will be quiet enough to use in my amp. I simply can't justify spending that much for only one good tube, or just as likely, two bad tubes. But recently, I got lucky and managed to find two of these, from two different vendors, for $10 each, and at that price, decided to give them a try.

I have yet to roll them in as it is necessary to thoroughly clean the pins of these old triodes beforehand. Also, to anyone thinking of rolling #27's, note that the heaters draw 1.75 Amps each at 2.5 Volts, so you will need a fairly hefty adjustable external power supply capable of providing 3.5 Amps for one pair.

Anyway, blue glass, shiny perforated plates, these are beautiful tubes


----------



## TonyNewman

I know EL3N are the current flavor of the month with Glenn amps, but there is something about the looks and sound of the 300B that floats my boat.

These are EML 300B meshies. Fresh out of the box. Build quality is exemplary - right up with the very best I have seen (Takatsuki).


----------



## leftside

Amp is looking great Tony. I like the "naked" c3g's.


----------



## TonyNewman

After a lot of arseing about and some misfortune, I am really enjoying my 300B amp now that everything is sorted, the sound and the looks of the thing.

Something about a big, stonking 300B tube aglow. Liking that.


----------



## Rossliew

A sight to behold. Tony, please give us some night shots of the glow


----------



## TonyNewman

I wish I had the equipment and skills to do that, but all I have is an old iPad Mk1 and my less than stellar photographic abilities.

Pity as the mesh tubes have a faintly visible blue hue to them, as well as the orange glow. I have seen long exposure pics from folks that know one of the camera from the other that were quite spectacular.

This is one I grabbed from the web with what looks like KT88s. The EML 300B mesh is the first tube I have used where the blue hue is visible to the naked eye (to my 49 year old eyeballs, at least).


----------



## Rossliew

Ahh how unfortunate we cannot share in the glow of your 300B but thanks for that pic. Do have an idea what it would look like at night


----------



## TonyNewman

Not that different to the pic above - not as vivid with the blue hue as you only get that with a slow shutter camera. Lots of orange glow.

I like the fat body RCA PY500s - these produce the best orange glow of any PY500 I have tried.


----------



## Rossliew

If only someone here in Malaysia has one of Glenn's 300B amp, I'd rush over to have a listen and a look!


----------



## 2359glenn

Rossliew said:


> If only someone here in Malaysia has one of Glenn's 300B amp, I'd rush over to have a listen and a look!



You can be the first


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> You can be the first



Hahahaha...stop tempting me Glenn! ....


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi, all!
I just rearranged my setup.
Amp rolling again.
Glenn Mono Blocks back in circulation with Mullard CV378 (GZ37).


----------



## ru4music

Clayton SF said:


> Hi, all!
> I just rearranged my setup.
> Amp rolling again.
> Glenn Mono Blocks back in circulation with Mullard CV378 (GZ37).



Nice!  What's the low-down of the Glenn mono blocks?  Also, it that a Decware amp sitting next to them?

Most people have just "skeletons in the closet", it appears you have Glenn Amps!


----------



## Clayton SF

ru4music said:


> Nice!  What's the low-down of the Glenn mono blocks?  Also, it that a Decware amp sitting next to them?
> 
> Most people have just "skeletons in the closet", it appears you have Glenn Amps!



Yes. A good eye you do have, yes you do!
That is a Decware Zen Triode Phono Stage ZP3.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hi Clayton

Glad to see you back.
Nice to see those old 300B mono blocks they are similar to my 300B amps.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Hi Clayton
> 
> Glad to see you back.
> Nice to see those old 300B mono blocks they are similar to my 300B amps.



OK; C3g driven 300B with a GZ37 rectifier, but there's another tube (what's that for?)

Looks like good ole Electra-Print iron as well! (???)


----------



## 2359glenn

That is a #81 rectifier for the bias voltage.
I used to be anal about using all tube and no SS at all.  Still had a toggle switch on those amps haven't used them in a long time.
Clayton has one of my oldest OTL amps in a small chassis maybe the 2nd amp I sold.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> That is a #81 rectifier for the bias voltage.
> I used to be anal about using all tube and no SS at all.  Still had a toggle switch on those amps haven't used them in a long time.
> Clayton has one of my oldest OTL amps in a small chassis maybe the 2nd amp I sold.


A "Classic",  in every meaning of the word!


----------



## whirlwind

I always like checking out the pictures of Clayton's gear.

He has lots of gear made by Glenn and I spy some PS Audio gear there also.


----------



## jelt2359

I cannot wait for my el3n!! Unfortunately I picked the slowest trafo maker around..


----------



## 2359glenn

I thought he forgot about us.
Do you have any news about the transformers?


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 17, 2017)

Can't order the chassis until I get the transformers to see the size of them.
Starting another EL3N build this week with the Lundahl transformers. Had to wait long enough for them as they were on holiday in Sweden.


----------



## Clayton SF

I was first introduced to Glenn's work when I bought adapters from him on eBay in 2009. And I am still using them today. His 7N7 to 6SN7 adapters have given me the opportunity to listen to some mighty fine Sylvania 7N7 tubes. And I dare say, that they are mighty fine looking, too.


----------



## rnros

Another Glenn OTL nearing completion...


----------



## TonyNewman

rnros said:


> Another Glenn OTL nearing completion...



Nice. Very clean layout.
One question - I don't see any bias meters or adjustment - is this not necessary with an OTL amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

Self bias with cathode resistors


----------



## gibosi

And the OTL allows one to configure it in ways that Glenn may never have considered, and often it sounds as good or even better than the traditional 6SN7/6AS7.

For example:

A Loewe Radio mesh-plate AZ12 rectifier, manufactured in Berlin around 1940; four Tung-Sol 6BX7 manufactured around 1960 and a pair of Westinghouse mesh-plate UY227 manufactured around 1932. (Hmmm... not the greatest pic... too much space to the left of the rectifier... lol)

Listening to Lizz Wright's new album, "Grace" and it sounds pretty great!


----------



## jelt2359

2359glenn said:


> I thought he forgot about us.
> Do you have any news about the transformers?



Haha no. Yes I think he did. I will send him a reminder...


----------



## 2359glenn

jelt2359 said:


> Haha no. Yes I think he did. I will send him a reminder...



Do you want tojust go back to Lundahl transformers?  They are pretty good.


----------



## rosgr63

jelt2359 said:


> Haha no. Yes I think he did. I will send him a reminder...



Clayton never forgets, we have parallel paths in Head-Fi, a very nice person and a dear friend.


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> Another Glenn OTL nearing completion...




Very nice....does this amp use 5 volt rectifiers.

I see the Lundahl transformer, but no PY500 ?


----------



## rnros

Yes, 5 volt, and no, PY500.


----------



## gibosi

5 volt? This must be a different Lundahl transformer?


----------



## rnros

gibosi said:


> 5 volt? This must be a different Lundahl transformer?



Don't know which other Lundahl you are referring to, this OTL uses the same 5V rectifiers as past GOTLs.
Also the 3V, I assume Glenn has wired this one the same way taking advantage of the different pinouts.
Don't have specs or model # for the Lundhal.


----------



## gibosi

rnros said:


> Don't know which other Lundahl you are referring to, this OTL uses the same 5V rectifiers as past GOTLs.
> Also the 3V, I assume Glenn has wired this one the same way taking advantage of the different pinouts.
> Don't have specs or model # for the Lundhal.



In the past, I was told that it was not possible to use 5V rectifiers with the Lundahl transformer Glenn installed in Whirlwind's OTL. So I am wondering if he is using a different one in your amp....


----------



## ru4music

rnros said:


> Don't know which other Lundahl you are referring to, this OTL uses the same 5V rectifiers as past GOTLs.
> Also the 3V, I assume Glenn has wired this one the same way taking advantage of the different pinouts.
> Don't have specs or model # for the Lundhal.



Same here, 5V and 3V rectifiers in the EL3N currently being built for me.  I wonder if the @whirlwind GOTL uses a higher current capable power trans.


----------



## rnros

gibosi said:


> In the past, I was told that it was not possible to use 5V rectifiers with the Lundahl transformer Glenn installed in Whirlwind's OTL. So I am wondering if he is using a different one in your amp....



OK. The photo I found shows that OTL set up for two PY500s... 9 pin sockets and 42V heaters.
Assuming the transformer is chosen/custom-built for that specific tube voltage.
Could be wrong, but you would still need an octal socket, don't think you could do it with an adapter.


----------



## rnros

ru4music said:


> Same here, 5V and 3V rectifiers in the EL3N currently being built for me.  I wonder if the @whirlwind GOTL uses a higher current capable power trans.



Actually, the PY500 has higher voltage but lower current.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> Actually, the PY500 has higher voltage but lower current.



The PY500/42EC4 is higher voltage and current it's average current is 440ma not many 5 volt rectifiers
come close to that.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> Don't know which other Lundahl you are referring to, this OTL uses the same 5V rectifiers as past GOTLs.
> Also the 3V, I assume Glenn has wired this one the same way taking advantage of the different pinouts.
> Don't have specs or model # for the Lundhal.



No it has a 20 watt resistor to drop 6.3 to 5. I had to many complaints about the PY500 and no tube rolling so I made it work with 
5 volt rectifiers. I still feel the PY500 is the better tube.


----------



## rnros (Sep 18, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> The PY500/42EC4 is higher voltage and current it's average current is 440ma not many 5 volt rectifiers
> come close to that.



Thanks for adding clarification, Glenn.
In that comment, I was referring to the heater filament current, not output current.
Per the spec sheets, 42V@300mA vs 5V@3.7A.


----------



## tkcha

Hi  every glenn tube amp lover.  Let me introduce to glenn and owners of his amps.   Im more speaker centric than headphone but I have good ok headphone set up. I have Woo audio WA6 SE with Westinghouse 6FD7 fat bottle, Marconi U52,GZ37 Coke bottle,GZ34 Metal base,GZ32 Brown base,Sophie Princess 274B Rectifiers and Aurender N100H,Intona ,Holo Spring 3 KTE DAC with Audio sensibilty Mod HE6,Audio sensibility statement occ silver cable Focal Utopia as my main cans.   Im interresting on 300B amp with speaker option so owner of 300b amp or anybody have idea let me know please . I listen and own lot of DSD music over 2500 albums.    Thank You


----------



## 2359glenn

You will need fairly officiant speakers with a 300B amp as it is only 8 watts but 8 watts of beautiful sound.
The cost of one of these 300B amps is around $4000


----------



## tkcha

I understood that have few pair speaker range 87 to low 90 db but not very sensitive .  But if I get low power SET it will use with Omega spraker or Horn speaker. My main speaker system which  Allnic Audio  T2000 25Th AN Intergrated amp, Aurender music server, Huolo spring 3 DAC with Five pair of speakers.


----------



## tkcha

So 300b amp will be similar to woo audio wa5 but better


----------



## 2359glenn

tkcha said:


> So 300b amp will be similar to woo audio wa5 but better



Yes


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> No it has a 20 watt resistor to drop 6.3 to 5. I had to many complaints about the PY500 and no tube rolling so I made it work with
> 5 volt rectifiers. I still feel the PY500 is the better tube.



Thanks for the explanation Glenn.


----------



## TonyNewman

tkcha said:


> So 300b amp will be similar to woo audio wa5 but better



As a former owner of the WA5 (old version) and current owner of a Glenn 300B amp (modded) I would say very much better. Far better detail, dynamics, transparency and punch. In my experience only the very best SS amps beat it in these categories, and not by much.

The WA5 does have a strong suit - it is much more euphonic and 'tubey' than the Glenn amp. If you like that sort of thing, and on some tracks it can be quite seductive, then the WA5 is worth considering.


----------



## tkcha

but my need with speaker output option how about Q for speaker. Do you try with speakers ?


----------



## tkcha

and then I can use my collection of rectifiers ?


----------



## 2359glenn

What impedance are your speakers.
I have made these with speaker outputs.


----------



## tkcha

I have bunch.  KEF LS50,BLADE 2,HIM SOUND A33, Impress and DIY speaker morel tweeter, 5 inch Focal mid, two 8 inch Focal wooper made with HMDF cabinet hi end caps and internal wire. But if I get 8 watts amp. I will try to get omega acustic or Tekton Double Impacts which 95 db or higher.


----------



## jelt2359

2359glenn said:


> Do you want tojust go back to Lundahl transformers?  They are pretty good.



He replied! He's just waiting for cores which he ordered so he said it should be soon


----------



## 2359glenn

Were the heck does he get them from????


----------



## Neogeo333

Little bit of food porn.  Family meal at work.  Can't


 

 take it anymore. Glenn when you coming to Brooklyn again?


----------



## ru4music

Neogeo333 said:


> Little bit of food porn.  Family meal at work.  Can't  take it anymore. Glenn when you coming to Brooklyn again?



YUM, I'll take one of each!  What's your delivery radius (I'm only 1,256.8 miles away)?


----------



## 2359glenn

Your killing me George.
Christmas is the soonest I have time off work


----------



## whirlwind

George, those pizza's looks delicious!


----------



## Neogeo333

Thanks everyone.  Ohhh boy they sure taste as good as they look.  The one with jalapeños and ricotta cheese and lemon zest OMG so good.
Just one more to keep Glenn on his toes.


 Since this one is one of the favorite we decided to make more.  Has nduya, tomato sauce, onions and jalapeños.


----------



## rnros

Neogeo333 said:


> Thanks everyone.  Ohhh boy they sure taste as good as they look.  The one with jalapeños and ricotta cheese and lemon zest OMG so good.



OK, I give up... Where are you located?
LOL, Looked for clues the last time you posted pics.
I'll be in Manhattan in the very near future.
Will be driving and it's been a while since I've visited Brooklyn!
Seriously, I need some of this pizza...


----------



## rosgr63

Neogeo333 said:


> Thanks everyone.  Ohhh boy they sure taste as good as they look.  The one with jalapeños and ricotta cheese and lemon zest OMG so good.
> Just one more to keep Glenn on his toes.
> Since this one is one of the favorite we decided to make more.  Has nduya, tomato sauce, onions and jalapeños.



Where are the tubes George?????????


----------



## Neogeo333

rnros said:


> OK, I give up... Where are you located?
> LOL, Looked for clues the last time you posted pics.
> I'll be in Manhattan in the very near future.
> Will be driving and it's been a while since I've visited Brooklyn!
> Seriously, I need some of this pizza...



Hi Rnros, im in Williamsburg area.  PM me for the specific address when your around.


----------



## Neogeo333

rosgr63 said:


> Where are the tubes George?????????


Hello Stravos, havent turn on the tubes for a while now.


----------



## rnros

Neogeo333 said:


> Hi Rnros, im in Williamsburg area.  PM me for the specific address when your around.



Thanks, will do.


----------



## rosgr63

Neogeo333 said:


> Hello Stravos, havent turn on the tubes for a while now.



Good to hear from you George, great photos I wish I was close by!!!


----------



## rnros

Just a few hours into the GOTL, and very impressed, and very happy...  : )

Dynamic, expansive, detailed, very clean, and very quiet. And just getting started!
Thank you, Glenn.


----------



## TonyNewman

rnros said:


> Just a few hours into the GOTL, and very impressed, and very happy...  : )
> 
> Dynamic, expansive, detailed, very clean, and very quiet. And just getting started!
> Thank you, Glenn.



Congrats on the new amp. Pls post some pics when convenient. Amp porn is always welcome.

(and real men don't settle for anything less than a 300B  ).


----------



## 2359glenn

I did burn in the amp for 48 hours before I shipped it. Probably needs to be burned in
with the tubes you are going to use.


----------



## rnros

TonyNewman said:


> Congrats on the new amp. Pls post some pics when convenient. Amp porn is always welcome.
> 
> (and real men don't settle for anything less than a 300B  ).



Thanks. Will get around to pics. 
300B you say? Maybe, someday.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> I did burn in the amp for 48 hours before I shipped it. Probably needs to be burned in
> with the tubes you are going to use.



Assumed you had put some burn on the amp. Thanks for that.
And yes, on needing tube and amp burn. Sure, only selecting quiet tubes, but some are brand new.
That's why it's so impressive as it is, there are no serious or annoying issues here, really hard to take the headphones off.
Expecting only more good things at 100 and 200 hrs.


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> Just a few hours into the GOTL, and very impressed, and very happy...  : )
> 
> Dynamic, expansive, detailed, very clean, and very quiet. And just getting started!
> Thank you, Glenn.



Congrats.

Enjoy your music.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 27, 2017)

I swapped amps with my son for a few days, he wanted to listen to the EL3N amp.

GOTL and HD800 synergize wonderfully.  It has been awhile since I have heard the OTL







Joe Bonamassa  "Live From Nowhere In Particular" sounds beautiful!


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> I swapped amps with my son for a few days, he wanted to listen to the EL3N amp.
> 
> GOTL and HD800 synergize wonderfully.  It has been awhile since I have heard the OTL
> 
> ...



Yes, an OTL is generally around 300 ohms output impedance which is a great match for the HD800's 300 to 650 ohm impedance curve.  Maximum power transfer occurs at equal (matched) impedance, that's why your planar headphones ( guessing ~20 ohm impedance) may sound better on your GEL3N which is configured around 28 - 30 ohm output impedance ( if memory serves me correct from my conversations with @2359glenn  .)


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> Yes, an OTL is generally around 300 ohms output impedance which is a great match for the HD800's 300 to 650 ohm impedance curve.  Maximum power transfer occurs at equal (matched) impedance, that's why your planar headphones ( guessing ~20 ohm impedance) may sound better on your GEL3N which is configured around 28 - 30 ohm output impedance ( if memory serves me correct from my conversations with @2359glenn  .)




Yeah, my planars are 50 ohm....and they do sound best on my EL3N amp....not bad on Glenns OTL amp though.


----------



## ru4music

I don't have my new GEL3N yet to provide any new-amp porn, so I thought I would provide some NOS-tube porn that is anticipating a new home soon:


----------



## Oskari

Great tube porn!


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> I don't have my new GEL3N yet to provide any new-amp porn, so I thought I would provide some NOS-tube porn that is anticipating a new home soon:




  Nice, are those Raytheon tubes 5CU4 by any chance ?

I just received one today.


----------



## rnros

ru4music said:


> Yes, an OTL is generally around 300 ohms output impedance which is a great match for the HD800's 300 to 650 ohm impedance curve.  Maximum power transfer occurs at equal (matched) impedance, that's why your planar headphones ( guessing ~20 ohm impedance) may sound better on your GEL3N which is configured around 28 - 30 ohm output impedance ( if memory serves me correct from my conversations with @2359glenn  .)



And yet, on the GOTL, my MrSpeakers Aeons (~15 Ohm) sound much better than my Beyer T1.2 (600 Ohm). 
(Not just better than T1.2, they sound very, very good.)
I am aware of the typical guidance offered for impedance matching, but it doesn't always hold true.
That's a comparison made with the 6336B, the T1.2 actually showed a little noise, dead quiet for the Aeon.
The Aeons were also good with some of the other power tubes I tried, most recently 4 6BX7s.
(The Aeons are planar.)


----------



## 2359glenn

Most OTL amps are cathode follower output my OTL is SRPP output.
I used to be a RADAR tech and they used SRPP to drive the 52 ohm line outputs for video and clock. 
These were long runs the RADAR unit can be far away from the screen.
with tubes like 6AS7 the output impedance is much lower then 50 ohms.
That is why this OTL can drive low impedance planar phones when most OTLs cant properly do it.


----------



## rnros

Nice. Yes! What Glenn said.

I'll still believe you have some magic, but... What is SRPP?

Didn't expect these graphite plate 6336Bs with 5A heaters to be so good.
Expected them to be power monsters, but perhaps lacking in micro detail/dynamics.
Not so, not giving up anything in the finesse department.
Beautiful image projection, and quiet! Does require additional warm-up time.


----------



## Rossliew

I can attest that Grado's and the GOTL sound fabulous !


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> Nice, are those Raytheon tubes 5CU4 by any chance ?
> 
> I just received one today.


Yes, you must have received the same @2359glenn alert... looking forward to your comparison in the GEL3N vs. other rect. tubes.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Most OTL amps are cathode follower output my OTL is SRPP output.
> I used to be a RADAR tech and they used SRPP to drive the 52 ohm line outputs for video and clock.
> These were long runs the RADAR unit can be far away from the screen.
> with tubes like 6AS7 the output impedance is much lower then 50 ohms.
> That is why this OTL can drive low impedance planar phones when most OTLs cant properly do it.



Interesting!  From an applied engineering perspective that is very insightful.  What Glenn is saying (in my interpretation) is; "he is able to provide adequate driver (load) current levels under a variation in impedance levels (i.e. low to high (nominal) impedance ( e.g. planar to dynamic (30 to 300 ohm)).  Keep it up Glenn!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> And yet, on the GOTL, my MrSpeakers Aeons (~15 Ohm) sound much better than my Beyer T1.2 (600 Ohm).
> (Not just better than T1.2, they sound very, very good.)
> I am aware of the typical guidance offered for impedance matching, but it doesn't always hold true.
> That's a comparison made with the 6336B, the T1.2 actually showed a little noise, dead quiet for the Aeon.
> ...




+1.....I have 32 Ohm Grados that sound wonderful with Glenns OTL also.

The 6336B tubes are a beast.  You can warm your room in the winter months too.

Not many OTL amps other than Glenns can roll the 6336 tubes....they are like the big brother to the Bendix 6080 graphite plate tubes


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Most OTL amps are cathode follower output my OTL is SRPP output.
> I used to be a RADAR tech and they used SRPP to drive the 52 ohm line outputs for video and clock.
> These were long runs the RADAR unit can be far away from the screen.
> with tubes like 6AS7 the output impedance is much lower then 50 ohms.
> That is why this OTL can drive low impedance planar phones when most OTLs cant properly do it.



What happened to the magnetron?

I am using Grado's with my GR amps a few years now and they do sound good.


----------



## 2359glenn

Magnetron Stavros?
Are we talking RADAR


----------



## ru4music

rosgr63 said:


> *What happened to the magnetron?*
> 
> I am using Grado's with my GR amps a few years now and they do sound good.



It's being used in my Microwave oven!


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 29, 2017)

Finally I'm joining all the fortunate ones here in getting a Glenn's OTL amp. I was in part impressed with this review which I read sometime ago. http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/e...nce-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier.

Since I've been rolling a few amps lately, I thought that for completeness I should get a Glenn's amp. As I have a lot of 6sn7 and 6as7 / 6080 / 5998, it's only natural that I choose the 6 x 6BL7 OTL amp. There's more combinations here than the Rubik's cube.

Anyway after talking to Glenn, he told me that this is what my OTL will have. To say that I'm excited is an understatement. 

Four or six 6BL7/6BX7 , two or four 6AS7 , two 6336 for output.
Two C3g sockets plus 6.3>12.6>25.2 volt switch for the SN7 socket. Can use 6SN7 , 12SN7/B36/FDD20 with adapter
and the 25SN7/1633 or the 13D1 that is a 25SN7.
Gold point stepped attenuator - 47 step.
It will have a switch to optimise 5998 tubes and another benefit is lower impedance for 6336. (No clue what lower impedance for 6336 will do but it does sound good 
It will have 1/4" TRS and 4pin XLR headphone jacks. (I like that it will have the additional 4pin XLR headphone jack for convenience as I have 2 Forza cables terminated with 4pin XLR)
115 or 230 volt switchable power. (Wow this is good. With most amps, you cannot do this.)

I got this clarification from Glenn regarding the 2 C3G sockets and the other SN7 socket. Thanks for that Glenn.

_If using the C3g you have to use 2 one for each channel.
Cannot use the SN7 and C3g together one or the other
A 6SN7 is a dual triode and will do both left and right.
_
Alright here's a continuation of our discussion when you ask me whether I have HEXFRED SS rectifiers or 42EC4/PY500 rectifier tubes? The answer is no because I have never roll with a rectifier in my life. Guess it's a good time to start now. So please tell me which rectifier(s) to get and how many do I need at any one time in the OTL amp. Also what does a rectifier do? 

Finally I am glad I still have five FDD20s, 2 of which are genuine 1942 vintage with labels. Also I have a stash of Fivre, Visseaux, National Union 6N7G and 6A6 tubes. Can I use these as driver with 6N7G to 6SN7 adapter? Also I have EF80 and EF86 with the corresponding EF80 or EF86 to 6SN7 adapters. I have a feeling I cannot use the EF pentodes as strapped triodes because it will only be a single tube in the solitary SN7 socket. It don't really matter because I will now have the option to roll with 12SN7, 25SN7, B36, 1633, 13D1 - way too many choices.

Ps... can anyone recommend a good place to get 6BL7 / 6BX7 and 6336 tubes? Thanks in advance.
_
_


----------



## 2359glenn

UT
You never got back to me if you want HEXFRED rectifiers or tube??


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> It's being used in my Microwave oven!



We can modulate the magnetron with music and would be cooking food with music.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> UT
> You never got back to me if you want HEXFRED rectifiers or tube??



Yes I do want HEXFRED rectifiers... assuming that is your recommendation. I have four 6BL7 at the moment so will need 2 more and I want to try 6336 so will need 2 of those.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> We can modulate the magnetron with music and would be cooking food with music.



I like how you think, dancing weenies (i.e. hotdogs):


----------



## 2359glenn

What brand 6BL7s do you have I might have some that will match your 4


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> We can *modulate* the magnetron with music and would be cooking food with music.



And we can use *AMP*litude Modulation!


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> I like how you think, dancing weenies (i.e. hotdogs):
> 
> They should taste better with the right music


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> And we can use *AMP*litude Modulation!



Sure AM 
All we need is a amp and a old output transformer hooked up backwards.
And the Weenies of course.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> What brand 6BL7s do you have I might have some that will match your 4



I have 4 GE 6BL7GTA. The 2 on the right are NOS NIB and the 2 on the left are nearly new. All tested in Elise before and working very well.

 

By the way, I have a pair of RCA CRC 1635... can I use these as drivers?


----------



## UntilThen

And I'll use all these power tubes. I have the RFT EL12N with EL12 to 6SN7 / 6AS7 adapter - the pair with the white adapters. Can those be used as powers? lol


----------



## 2359glenn

I have three GE 6BL7s will give you two with the amp.
The 1635 will work but will need a special adapter to go into the SN7 soccket


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> And I'll use all these power tubes. I have the RFT EL12N with EL12 to 6SN7 / 6AS7 adapter - the pair with the white adapters. Can those be used as powers? lol



The EL12N will not work in this amp all tubes have to be dual triodes


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The EL12N will not work in this amp all tubes have to be dual triodes



Thanks. I'll donate the EL12N to charity then.

Are these ok for 6336? Thought of getting it. I think they are Cetron solid plates.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-JAN...%3Acfbee82215e0abc03724d78cfffedc7e%7Ciid%3A1


----------



## 2359glenn

They should be OK I like the Graphite plate 6336


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> They should be OK I like the Graphite plate 6336



Ordered a pair ! Thanks Glenn. Now to get some work done.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> [snip]...
> 
> Finally I am glad I still have five FDD20s, 2 of which are genuine 1942 vintage with labels. Also I have a stash of Fivre, Visseaux, National Union 6N7G and 6A6 tubes. Can I use these as driver with 6N7G to 6SN7 adapter? Also I have EF80 and EF86 with the corresponding EF80 or EF86 to 6SN7 adapters. I have a feeling I cannot use the EF pentodes as strapped triodes because it will only be a single tube in the solitary SN7 socket. It don't really matter because I will now have the option to roll with 12SN7, 25SN7, B36, 1633, 13D1 - way too many choices.
> 
> Ps... can anyone recommend a good place to get 6BL7 / 6BX7 and 6336 tubes? Thanks in advance.



Hello UT. Long time no see! 

For sure, you can run the FDD20, 6N7G and 6A6 in the GOTL. But of course, since the GOTL has a single driver, rather than a pair as in the Elise, you will need different adapters. And I think you will really appreciate the 6/12/25 switch when you pop in that FDD20, move the switch to 12 volts and turn it on. 

Also, with a single driver, it is much easier to try pairs of single triodes, such as 76, 6J5G and others, if you want, again with appropriate adapters.

Unfortunately, I haven't found one or even a few good sources for 6BL7, 6BX7, 6336 and 6528 (or any other tube for that matter). My strategy is to search eBay several times a day until I find what I want at a price I am willing to pay. Patience and persistence. 

Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Hello UT. Long time no see!



Hi Ken, it's been a long time indeed. I remember we were talking almost 2 years ago and you were telling me about Glenn's OTL amp. It took me nearly 2 years to commit to get the wonder amp that is every tube rollers dream.  Now that I look at what I've ask Glenn to build for me, the tube rolling possibilities are almost endless. It must be very exciting to buy one amp and be able to tune it in a multitude of ways with various tubes.

I'm going to have to be guided by you as to the tubes to be used and the adapters. For a start, I'd want to try 2xC3Gs and 6x6BL7s. Then 2x6336. You mentioned about setting 12.6 volt for FDD20. What a joy. I remember using external power supply for FDD20 in Elise. Now I can do that with a flick of a switch. How convenient !!! What tubes do I use 25.2 volts for? 

Now tube rolling is probably less painful on Glenn's OTL amp than the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP that I just bought. It uses 6x12au7 and 8xKT88 / EL34 / KT120 / KT150 !!! This is the PL HP. It sounds good with speakers and headphones. I'm going to skip tube rolling with the PL and just concentrate on GOTL. The truth is I don't really want to go nuts with tube rolling now. I'll try a good selection of tubes but I'll be very selective.

 

This is the Cetron 6336 that I just bought. It is supposed to be new and solid graphite plates.
  

Now to look for a nice pair of C3Gs. Very hard to find the 'S version now. I sold my Valvo C3G/s and ECC31s to Ross. Fortunately I only need one ECC31 now.


----------



## UntilThen

Got more tubes for the OTL amp. 

A rebranded Tung Sol 6F8G. Where can I buy a nice adapter?
 

A pair of new Siemens C3G.
 

One Tung Sol 5998 from Langrex so I will have 4 to roll with the amp.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> UT
> You never got back to me if you want HEXFRED rectifiers or tube??



Glenn how much are the HEXFRED rectifiers? I need 2?


----------



## Rossliew

That was quick! The amp is probably a few months down the road for delivery


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> Got more tubes for the OTL amp.
> 
> A rebranded Tung Sol 6F8G. Where can I buy a nice adapter?


Glenn makes excellent adapters for 6SN7 -> 6C8G / 6F8G. Plenty also available in Ebay, but not as nice.


----------



## Rossliew

TonyNewman said:


> Glenn makes excellent adapters for 6SN7 -> 6C8G / 6F8G. Plenty also available in Ebay, but not as nice.



Agreed. Am sure Glenn can make you some.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> That was quick! The amp is probably a few months down the road for delivery



I will get everything ready so when the GOTL comes, I'll be ready. 

Somehow GOTL sounds like Gotham.


----------



## Rossliew

Sounds more like gonads to me lol! And it is indeed powerful sounding !


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> Glenn makes excellent adapters for 6SN7 -> 6C8G / 6F8G. Plenty also available in Ebay, but not as nice.



Thanks. I'll ask Glenn to make me a nice 6F8G adapter. I also need ECC31 / 6N7G to 6SN7 because I sold mine to Ross. Why did I sell him everything?  and FDD20 to 6SN7.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I bought a brand new ECC31 from Langrex. They must love me now. This looks better than new. I'm going to run this with 2 x GEC 6AS7g and 2 x GEC 6080. Probably my most expensive tubes. Not sure how it will sound.


----------



## UntilThen

So Glenn, I need very nice looking adapters for :-

FDD20 to 6SN7
6F8G to 6SN7
ECC31 / 6N7G to 6SN7

One other thing. I can't decide whether to get a black or silver face OTL amp. Any thoughts?

This is my 6A6 to 6SN7 adapter. It's the biggest marshmallow.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 30, 2017)

rnros said:


> Another Glenn OTL nearing completion...



Ok this looks interesting. Lots of sockets. Glenn, is mine similar to this? I see 6 sockets for 6BL7. Then presumably 2 C3G sockets and a solitary socket for 6sn7 I presume. What's the other socket to the left for? And the other 2 tubes in front of the transformer. What are they?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Most OTL amps are cathode follower output my OTL is SRPP output.



Glenn, what is SRPP.

Also Glenn, I don't think I can answer your question of whether I want HEXFRED rectifiers or tube. I have absolutely zero idea. Is tube rectifier the PY500? 

You'll have to educate me here. Which sound better to your ears?


----------



## Rossliew

Hexfreds are solid state rectifiers - absolute zero voltage drop meaning it's very linear and you get a more transparent , solid state control of the frequencies. I loved my old amps with the hexfreds. So much so that I hardly rolled their tubed cousins when I had them.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Hexfreds are solid state rectifiers - absolute zero voltage drop meaning it's very linear and you get a more transparent , solid state control of the frequencies. I loved my old amps with the hexfreds. So much so that I hardly rolled their tubed cousins when I had them.



Ok I've been doing some rapid reading in this thread and kind of get some idea of what HEXFRED is. Pretty much what you described. I'm still none the wiser as to whether to go with HEXFRED or tube rectifiers. Until I heard one, I wouldn't have a clue.

I suppose with Hexfred rectifiers, the driver and power tubes will still influence the sound right?


----------



## Rossliew

Yes the other tubes will still influence the sound somewhat. If I'm not mistaken , Glenn's amps are less susceptible to rectifier rolling as compared to the driver and power tubes. Please double check with him as I could be wrong.


----------



## Rossliew

Speaking of hexfreds, @2359glenn can your hexfreds be used in the WA5-LE in place of the 5u4g rectifiers ?


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Once I got used to the HEXFREDs I found it was literally impossible to go back to tube rectification.  The amp quite simply doesn't sound as good with the tubes doing that duty.  There really is no downside to the HEXFREDs in my mind, unless you simply cannot let go of some of your tube glow.  But I'm here to listen to my amp, not stare at it.  I was very worried that the amp would lose tone color or sound "whitewashed" with the SS components, but not only did this not happen I found an improvement in this area in addition to the obvious gains in resolution and bass performance.
> 
> Nice to see I have another preacher at the church of HEXFRED finally.  Welcome aboard Tony!



Wow I see some like Hexfred and some prefers tube rectifiers. Hmmm... tough choice. What do you think Glenn? What should I get lol. Now I'm asking you instead hahaha.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Couldn't agree more Ken, and you have done extensive testing on rectifiers.
> *With a tube rectifier you have the option to change the sound for better or worst.*



Ah ha.... Stavros, you could have influence my decision with this statement here.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> It's not a secret that my favorite rectifier is the 3DG4. I give one with most of my amplifiers.



Alright this is the answer - Glenn I'm going with tube rectifiers.


----------



## 2359glenn

The HEXFRED rectifiers might be better but the tube rectifiers look cool 
PY500/42EC4 have very low voltage drop.

Oh I already ordered your chassis with a silver front yesterday and a black knob from Gold Point


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 30, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> The HEXFRED rectifiers might be better but the tube rectifiers look cool
> PY500/42EC4 have very low voltage drop.
> 
> Oh I already ordered your chassis with a silver front yesterday and a black knob from Gold Point



No worries. Silver front will match with my silver Yggdrasil DAC so it's all good.

The last few OTLs that you did, was it Hexfred or tube rectifiers? If the PY500/42EC4 sounds good with 6 x 6BL7 or 2 x 6336 then I'll go with that.

Let's say C3G are the drivers used.


----------



## 2359glenn

The HEXFRED has a lower voltage drop and can handle much more current then any tube rectifier.
A 5U4GB can handle 270ma a PY500 is 400ma the HXFREDS are 6amp or 6000ma.
The HEXFREDS might be better with the 6336 that are high current tubes.

The driver C3g draws very low current so that don't matter.


----------



## lukeap69

Can a tube rectifier be replaceable with a HEXFRED a la Schiit LISST?


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> Can a tube rectifier be replaceable with a HEXFRED a la Schiit LISST?



Most amps can be switched with a adapter to use HEXFRED rectifiers


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> Most amps can be switched with a adapter to use HEXFRED rectifiers


I see. How about my Darna?


----------



## gibosi (Sep 30, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> No worries. Silver front will match with my silver Yggdrasil DAC so it's all good.
> 
> The last few OTLs that you did, was it Hexfred or tube rectifiers? If the PY500/42EC4 sounds good with 6 x 6BL7 or 2 x 6336 then I'll go with that.
> 
> Let's say C3G are the drivers used.



If you want the ability "to change the sound for better or for worse" then yes, tube rectifiers are the way to go. Specifically 5-volt tube rectifiers. The PY500/42EC4 is a 42-volt rectifier, and those with amps that use this rectifier tell me that they all sound pretty much the same, regardless of manufacturer.

In terms of "sounding good", both the HEXFREDs and the PY500/42EC4 sound great. And like your experience with the Elise, which uses solid-state rectification, (but probably not HEXFREDS) you can completely forget about rectifiers and simply roll different drivers and output tubes to tailor the sound.

Introducing 5-volt rectifiers into the mix will enable you to further tailor the sound, but I should warn you that the world of 5-volt rectifiers is a very slippery slope. Before you know it, you might have 50 different rectifiers. And worse, some are quite expensive. For example, the coveted Western Electric 422A  often sells for more than $400 (and at that price I will likely never own one).

You wrote earlier, "The truth is I don't really want to go nuts with tube rolling now." If so, solid-state HEXFREDs will give you great sound while keeping tube rolling to a minimum, just drivers and outputs. But if you want the option to go nuts with tube rolling later, 5-volt rectifiers might be the better choice.

For what it is worth, I don't see this as a choice about what sounds better. Rather, it is a choice between keeping things simple, with minimal tube rolling, or complicated and crazy. 

RE: C3g. To the best of my knowledge, all C3g with shiny black cans were manufactured by Siemens in the 1970's, regardless of the brand. Earlier, in addition to Siemens, Lorenz and perhaps Telefunken also manufactured this tube. Earlier production is characterized by flat-black cans with embossed branding on the top. However, while I often see embossed Telefunken C3m, I have never seen an embossed Telefunken 3Cg, so I cannot be sure they exist.

Also, while some claim that the "S" version sounds better, I personally do not hear any difference. On the other hand, I do hear a difference between the earlier embossed Siemens and the later shiny ones. And to my ears, the embossed Lorenz sounds very different than the Siemens, both shiny and embossed.


----------



## 2359glenn

I normally use rectifier tubes not due to the sound they are fun to use.
Maybe not the best choice on my part.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Finally I'm joining all the fortunate ones here in getting a Glenn's OTL amp. I was in part impressed with this review which I read sometime ago. http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/e...nce-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier.
> 
> Since I've been rolling a few amps lately, I thought that for completeness I should get a Glenn's amp. As I have a lot of 6sn7 and 6as7 / 6080 / 5998, it's only natural that I choose the 6 x 6BL7 OTL amp. There's more combinations here than the Rubik's cube.
> 
> ...




Congrats UT  

Holy smokes....you are moving fast   ....lol

Gonna be a great amp...you should enjoy it for a long time.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The HEXFRED has a lower voltage drop and can handle much more current then any tube rectifier.
> A 5U4GB can handle 270ma a PY500 is 400ma the HXFREDS are 6amp or 6000ma.
> The HEXFREDS might be better with the 6336 that are high current tubes.
> 
> The driver C3g draws very low current so that don't matter.



I find it amazing that I'm getting instant feedback from the designer himself on what's best for my amp. Plus Ken's reply and Joe's message to me, I think it's so much easier for me to decide on what rectifier to go with. In truth, I really don't want to go nuts with tube rolling this time. I just want to settle into playing music and enjoying it. Some tube rolling will do and I can do that with drivers and power tubes.

*So Hexfred it is for me.* I really don't need to look at the glow. If I wanted to look at glow, I only need to look at my Primaluna. 

Thanks for all the help guys.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Congrats UT
> 
> Holy smokes....you are moving fast   ....lol
> 
> Gonna be a great amp...you should enjoy it for a long time.



Thanks Joe. This GOTL will definitely be the last for this year. Even I shudder at what I have bought this year alone. Now I should just listen to music.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> I see. How about my Darna?



Hi Arnold.

If your amp using 5 volt rectifiers, Glenn can make you an adapter and you just drop it in the 5 volt rectifier socket instead of a tube and presto.

With the PY500/42EC4 rectifiers, not sure any adapter would work...but if so...Glenn would be the man to make it happen.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Hi Arnold.
> 
> If your amp using 5 volt rectifiers, Glenn can make you an adapter and you just drop it in the 5 volt rectifier socket instead of a tube and presto.
> 
> With the PY500/42EC4 rectifiers, not sure any adapter would work...but if so...Glenn would be the man to make it happen.



Thanks Joe.


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> I see. How about my Darna?



The problem is I can't get the 9 pin tube bases that the PY500s have.
Maybe not a big difference the PY500 has a very low voltage drop so not much change in sound.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Ok this looks interesting. Lots of sockets. Glenn, is mine similar to this? I see 6 sockets for 6BL7. Then presumably 2 C3G sockets and a solitary socket for 6sn7 I presume. What's the other socket to the left for? And the other 2 tubes in front of the transformer. What are they?



The other socket is for the 5 volt rectifier 5U4 type
The two canc in front of the power transformer are the large filter capacitors.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> The problem is I can't get the 9 pin tube bases that the PY500s have.
> Maybe not a big difference the PY500 has a very low voltage drop so not much change in sound.


No worries Glenn. No HEXFRED for me then. Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> No worries Glenn. No HEXFRED for me then. Thanks.



After one year, we can swap amps. That way you can experience Hexfred and I will try your rectifier tubes.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> After one year, we can swap amps. That way you can experience Hexfred and I will try your rectifier tubes.



If it wasn't so difficult to ship things from Dubai, then I would have taken your offer.


----------



## 2359glenn

Rossliew said:


> Speaking of hexfreds, @2359glenn can your hexfreds be used in the WA5-LE in place of the 5u4g rectifiers ?



I can make HEXFREDs that will work with the WA5 BUT the B+ voltage will go up.
If the filter capacitors they use don't have a higher margin of the voltage rating they can be damaged from over voltage.
I normally use capacitors that are a couple of hundred volts over the normal B+ voltage so this can be done no problem.
This is why I don't like making these adapters for amps I didn't build. 
But if you really want them I will make them.
There is Copper tops made with the voltage drop of the tube built in but they use regular diodes not HEXFREDs.
And with the built in resistor to make the voltage drop and sag what is the point?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> *The other socket is for the 5 volt rectifier 5U4 type*
> The two canc in front of the power transformer are the large filter capacitors.



Wow whoever owns that 6x6BL7 GOTL must be very busy rolling tube rectifiers now.... in addition to drivers and powers.


----------



## 2359glenn

So you want the SS HEXFREDS?


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn, do you have time to make these adapters for me? To be use in the SN7 socket.... 

6F8G to 6SN7
FDD20 to 6SN7
ECC31 / 6N7G to 6SN7


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> So you want the SS HEXFREDS?



Me? 

Yes it's Hexfred for me.


----------



## 2359glenn

OK   HEXFREDs it is.
I try to give people what they want in a amp.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> I can make HEXFREDs that will work with the WA5 BUT the B+ voltage will go up.
> If the filter capacitors they use don't have a higher margin of the voltage rating they can be damaged from over voltage.
> I normally use capacitors that are a couple of hundred volts over the normal B+ voltage so this can be done no problem.
> This is why I don't like making these adapters for amps I didn't build.
> ...



Understood, Glenn. Then it makes the WA5 an even more expensive proposition considering the matched pairs of rectifiers to be used, not even counting the 300B tubes...i don't need the Hexfreds as i don't have the WA5 but was wondering why owners of this amp didn't figure on getting it in the first place instead of the copper thingy.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Wow whoever owns that 6x6BL7 GOTL must be very busy rolling tube rectifiers now.... in addition to drivers and powers.



Congrats on the incoming GOTL.

Busy, yes, but not so much with the rectifiers. Have to put some sense and sanity to the process!
Keeping a Mullard GZ37 in while I work through power tubes. Did I quickly try some other rectifiers? Of course.
Right now, fascinated with the 6336Bs, enjoying the music, and rolling headphones.
Took less than ten minutes to become a GOTL fanboy... 
And most of that ten minutes was spent trying to decide which tubes to try first.  : )
And, yes, it continues to improve!

Nothing but good things to say about the GOTL, and the whole process of working with Glenn.
Feel very fortunate that I was at the right place at the right time, and caught a slot in his schedule.


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> Congrats on the incoming GOTL.
> 
> Busy, yes, but not so much with the rectifiers. Have to put some sense and sanity to the process!
> Keeping a Mullard GZ37 in while I work through power tubes. Did I quickly try some other rectifiers? Of course.
> ...




Got to love rolling headphones....which are you using.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Congrats on the incoming GOTL.
> 
> Busy, yes, but not so much with the rectifiers. Have to put some sense and sanity to the process!
> Keeping a Mullard GZ37 in while I work through power tubes. Did I quickly try some other rectifiers? Of course.
> ...



G'day mros, thanks for the feedback. I have to say that even though I have 3 headphone amps in my possession now, I'm still looking forward to Gotl. I'd venture to say that this is a powerful sounding amp that is effortless in it's delivery. Having 6x6BL7 or 2x6336 as powers must be something. Yeah I'm looking forward to it and my headphones are ready to roll. I'll be trying HD800, LCD-2f, ZMF Eikon and Atticus on it.

I had a look at 12SN7 prices and they are pretty cheap. Best thing is you only need one SN7 as driver. That lessen the cost a lot. I have always been buying drivers as pairs for Elise and Euforia.

I pick up a sextet of new Sylvania 6BL7GT / GTA. Two of them are Sylvania rebranded as Tung Sol and Westinghouse.


----------



## 2359glenn

I will send you two GE 6BL7s so you have a sextet of them too.
Plus I will send a 1940s RCA black glass 1633/25SN7 for you to play with.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I will send you two GE 6BL7s so you have a sextet of them too.
> Plus I will send a 1940s RCA black glass 1633/25SN7 for you to play with.



Wow you are the best Glenn. Now I'll have GE and Sylvania 6BL7s to roll with. They might and probably sound the same. 

Thanks in advance for the 1940s RCA black glass 1633/25SN7. Does this need an adapter? I think someone mention about the 12SN7 needing an adapter in the GOTL.

Also with what tubes do I use the 25.2 volt switch?


----------



## UntilThen

This is my 6SN7 stash plus I have FDD20s, 6N7G, 6N7, 6A6 and 1635. Oh you mention that 1635 needs an adapter. I probably wouldn't bother then as it's only one pair of tubes. I'm swamped with adapters now. I've got adapters coming out of my ears. 

Oh I have a pair of 6N23P plus ECC88 to 6SN7 adapters to try too and a pair of Raytheon 7N7 plus adapters. Oh 6CG7s and adapters and 5 x RCA 6BQ7A / 6BZ7 plus adapters. Why did I buy so many tubes for?


----------



## 2359glenn

You can use them all !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You can use them all !!!!!!!!!!



LOL, what have I got myself into? I wouldn't know how to spread my time with my speaker system or the headphone system with all these tube rolling possibilities.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 30, 2017)

You know I was really tempted to get a GEL3N but then I had just bought the Primaluna HP whose headphone amp is as excellent as it's stereo amp. It has the triode or ultralinear (pentode) switch just like the GEL3N. Primaluna uses 6x12au7 and 8xEL34 or 6550 or KT77 or KT88 or KT120 or KT150. I was considering GEL3N because I think anything that sounds like a 45 or 2A3 sounds great. I did sample 6xEL3N in Elise but I don't think the GEL3N will sound anything like it. Lucky Joe and all those who have the GEL3N.

However I decide to settle on the GOTL because 3 of my 4 headphones are high impedance 300ohms. Only the LCD-2f is a planar magnetic and that is 70ohms.


----------



## 2359glenn

The EL3N in the Elise will sound nothing like this EL3N amp with high quality output transformers.
And they are run in the proper circuit for them.


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> Got to love rolling headphones....which are you using.



Have tried all that I have (except Oppo PM-1).

For now, with the 6336Bs, the Aeons are outstanding, although the Z1RS are probably just a little bit better...
Although the Z1Rs, being a little more sensitive, are showing just a very small amount of noise.
But it's still very early for both the amp and the tubes.
The big surprise in the mid-fi category are the K7XXs, these have been my 'utility' headphones, mostly for checking, 
sorting tubes, and when you don't want to risk a more expensive headphone. Well, on this amp, it goes a step higher.

In addition to the 6336Bs mentioned above, all three are dead quiet and sound very good with a few of the 6080s,
a couple of different 6AS7s, and the GE 6BX7s. The 6BX7s are noticeably a little mid-forward, in a good way, but
there was also a little bit of distortion in the mids, but that's the tube and they need burn time.

On the other hand, the high Z headphones I have, the T1.2 and the HD600/650 all show noise, too much noise.
Not my favorites, but still strange, since I expected the low Ohm headphones to have the noise problems.
Now maybe, there are some other power tubes that favor these headphones.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 30, 2017)

Oh for sure. Your GEL3N is optimised for the EL3N tubes and yeah those Lundahl transformers are sexy. I was running it with cheap adapters from China but I had a lot of fun with it. It's quite warm and lush I must admit but the soundstage expanded and not because my eyes are seeing so many tubes on Elise. 

This amp and tubes are with @Rossliew now. I wanted him to tell me the diiference in tone between your GEL3N and this 'creation' but I have not really heard from Ross on that yet.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> On the other hand, the high Z headphones I have, the T1.2 and the HD600/650 all show noise, too much noise.
> Not my favorites, but still strange, since I expected the low Ohm headphones to have the noise problems.
> Now maybe, there are some other power tubes that favor these headphones.



Really? This review reported very favourably on 6x6BL7 with HD800 and T1. No mention of noise. What kind of noise are you getting?
http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/e...nce-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier

HD800 is one of the headphones I'll putting through it. I still reckon HD800 with the right amp has that magic of clarity and details that I find very appealing.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> G'day mros, thanks for the feedback. I have to say that even though I have 3 headphone amps in my possession now, I'm still looking forward to Gotl. I'd venture to say that this is a powerful sounding amp that is effortless in it's delivery. Having 6x6BL7 or 2x6336 as powers must be something. Yeah I'm looking forward to it and my headphones are ready to roll. I'll be trying HD800, LCD-2f, ZMF Eikon and Atticus on it.
> 
> I had a look at 12SN7 prices and they are pretty cheap. Best thing is you only need one SN7 as driver. That lessen the cost a lot. I have always been buying drivers as pairs for Elise and Euforia.
> 
> I pick up a sextet of new Sylvania 6BL7GT / GTA. Two of them are Sylvania rebranded as Tung Sol and Westinghouse.



I'll be looking forward to your impressions with those headphones on the GOTL. 
LOL, Your description is on the money! You won't be disappointed.
Yes, nice to have the option for 12V and 25V tubes, even though I have too many drivers already!
But the prices are so much better for the 12/25V.
I do have some 6BL7s here, but haven't tried them yet.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Really? This review reported very favourably on 6x6BL7 with HD800 and T1. No mention of noise. What kind of noise are you getting?
> http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/e...nce-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier
> 
> HD800 is one of the headphones I'll putting through it. I still reckon HD800 with the right amp has that magic of clarity and details that I find very appealing.



Been a while since I read that review, so whatever his/her experience was, I've forgotten it already.
Some of my first trials were with the T1.2 and the Aeon, spending some time with the 6336Bs and the 6BX7s:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1052#post-13749615

But, as I said, there may be other power tubes that favor those headphones.
The drivers I'm currently using are all good, quiet and with considerable time on them.
And when I give a listen to the T1.2s again, I'll be sure to post.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks again for your impressions mros. I'm sure it's the tubes because @whirlwind doesn't tell me anything about noise on his amps and believe me he has been telling me about his amps for a long time.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Thanks again for your impressions mros. I'm sure it's the tubes because @whirlwind doesn't tell me anything about noise on his amps and believe me he has been telling me about his amps for a long time.



Of course, never said it was the amp. It's common for folks to talk about tube noise.
Just a part of tube life. The GOTL is a quiet, transparent amp, my first, and ongoing impression.
Jeez, with all the tubes you have, there must be some hummers in there!  : )

And It's about the headphones also, and their response to some of the tube combinations. 
Remember, I was responding to a question from @whirlwind.
So rather than just give him a list, I offered some early impressions.

Not to worry, can't imagine that you or anyone else would find fault with the GOTL.
Well, guess I can only speak to the version I have, but you get the point.


----------



## UntilThen

It's all good mros. I get your point. You were full of praise for your GOTL and you clearly love it. Just goes to show it's a quality product.

I did get some bad tubes and as soon as I discover that I throw them away. However noise can come about in many ways. I once tried to take a picture of my turntable with my mobilephone camera, while the turntable is playing and I get a terrible feedback.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm already feeling the benefits of having Gotl. Only one SN7 is required. So that means shopping for a driver is now much easier and cheaper. No need to get a pair !!! Another thing, 12sn7 is so much more cheaper than 6sn7. However not much 25sn7.

Anyone tried running with 7 x 6SN7 ?


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> Have tried all that I have (except Oppo PM-1).
> 
> For now, with the 6336Bs, the Aeons are outstanding, although the Z1RS are probably just a little bit better...
> Although the Z1Rs, being a little more sensitive, are showing just a very small amount of noise.
> ...



Wow, great collection of headphones there.
You are in for some wonderful listening and fun.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I'm already feeling the benefits of having Gotl. Only one SN7 is required. So that means shopping for a driver is now much easier and cheaper. No need to get a pair !!! Another thing, 12sn7 is so much more cheaper than 6sn7. However not much 25sn7.
> 
> Anyone tried running with 7 x 6SN7 ?



You can try it. It will work I would say only with high impedance phones.
Stavros has a amp that can work with 8  6SN7s for outputs and 1 for the driver total of 9.
But he uses six 6BL7s for the outputs sounds better.

25SN7 you have to look for 1633 or the Brimar 13D1. The 13D1 is a very good sounding tube.
I will be sending you a RCA 1633 with the amp. The 1633 sounds like a 1940s RCA 6SN7.


----------



## 2359glenn

I can get the 1633 RCA and Ken-Rad for $3 can't get any other 1940s 6SN7s for that price.
Not worth anything because no other amps can use it.
Actually my first amps only used the 13D1 and 1633 but people complained they wanted to
be able to use the 6SN7.  Why? these are great sounding tubes for cheep.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I can get the 1633 RCA and Ken-Rad for $3 can't get any other 1940s 6SN7s for that price.
> Not worth anything because no other amps can use it.
> Actually my first amps only used the 13D1 and 1633 but people complained they wanted to
> be able to use the 6SN7.  Why? these are great sounding tubes for cheep.



No kidding, I have lots of 1633 tubes...smoked glass 1940's tubes and they sound great and the price can't be beat.

Many people pay for 6SN7GT , 1940's because they have to....I like cheap   

Here is a 1940's 6SN7GT auction.....I ask, who would pay that!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-NOS-QU...573093?hash=item3f87d12fe5:g:U0sAAOSwtTJZyLCZ


----------



## 2359glenn

And the 1633 is the same thing with a 25 volt filament for $3 each.
That is craziness.


----------



## whirlwind

Yeah, even worse than crazy!

The 6/12/25 volt option is one that can't be beat.

The Brimar 13D1 does sound very good, but the price has went up since i purchased mine.....the 1633 is best option for 25SN7


----------



## 2359glenn

The 13D1 is rare now it is getting hard to find.
Don't even know were to get one now. I used to give them with my amps they were cheep.


----------



## jekjek

I love brimar 13d1. Using it now in GOTL


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> I love brimar 13d1. Using it now in GOTL



Were did you get it?


----------



## UntilThen

I tried searching for Brimar 13D1 in eBay but there's only 13D3 or men's boots.


----------



## UntilThen

Searching for B36 tubes produce funny results.


----------



## UntilThen

Can we use 6SL7 and 12SL7 tubes?


----------



## Rossliew

Those tubes are probably extinct now since no tube amp maker uses them...well, except Glenn


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Can we use 6SL7 and 12SL7 tubes?



Yes but I think it will have to much gain 6SN7 = gain of 20  6SL7 = gain of 70


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes but I think it will have to much gain 6SN7 = gain of 20  6SL7 = gain of 70



Thanks. Will skip that then.

Running 4 x 5998 should be a blast. I wonder if I'll hear a difference with the optimised switch on.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> Were did you get it?


Epay of course
Bought 3 last year


----------



## 2359glenn

You will it sounds much better then just sticking a 5998 in a amp made for a 6AS7.


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> Epay of course
> Bought 3 last year




they have none now


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You will it sounds much better then just sticking a 5998 in a amp made for a 6AS7.



Can I flick the switch for 7236 tubes too? They aren't exactly the same as 5998 parametrically. 

Data sheet for 7236 - http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/7236_TS.PDF

Data sheet for 5998 - http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/5998_TS.PDF

Will I see Fourth of July fireworks if I flick the switch for 7236s?


----------



## 2359glenn

No fireworks never tried the 7236 my self but they might sound better with the switch on.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I tried searching for Brimar 13D1 in eBay but there's only 13D3 or men's boots.



Although they do not currently list the 13D1, it might be worth your while to contact Langrex to see if they have one:

http://stores.ebay.com/LANGREX?_trksid=p2047675.l2563


----------



## UntilThen

Good idea. I'm a Langrex regular now.  They are about to send me a new ECC31.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Although they do not currently list the 13D1, it might be worth your while to contact Langrex to see if they have one:
> 
> http://stores.ebay.com/LANGREX?_trksid=p2047675.l2563



I think they may have them, but they are not as cheap as they once were


----------



## rnros (Oct 1, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> Were did you get it?



The stocklist from the langrex.co.uk website shows the 13D1 as in stock (92).
They do not show up in the search function. You can email them from the homepage.

See page 4:
https://www.langrex.co.uk/public_html/valvenov.pdf

Thanks for the 1633. Great tube.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> The stocklist from the langrex.co.uk website shows the 13D1 as in stock (92).
> They do not show up in the search function. You can email them from the homepage.
> 
> See page 4:
> ...



Thanks for confirming it. I hadn't check the stocklist but I email them last night. I saw it now. It's listed as 92 in stock.

Looking forward to trying out the 1633 - 25 volts. So incredibly flexible this 6 / 12 / 25 volt switch.


----------



## UntilThen

jelt2359 said:


> PS, *Another amp that floored him (this is a guy who has long retired his HD800)- the GOTL with 6x 6BL7, 6SN7W and Hexfred rectifier. *This is a truly great combination, thanks to @lukeap69 for introducing it to me. I just discovered my Apex Teton can also run the same 6BL7 tubes, so I'm going to try that next



Just reading through the posts here. I happened to have a pair of 6SN7W so I'll see if HD800 will get more head time. Currently it's the ZMF headphones Eikon and Atticus that is getting more head time. And yes ! Jelt also chose Hexfred rectifier.


----------



## 2359glenn

I originally made this amp for the HD800s and HD650s the headphones I had.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I originally made this amp for the HD800s and HD650s the headphones I had.



That's really good to know because the HD800 and Yggdrasil were the start to my spending this year. I also have a modified HD650 that is more open sounding now and tighter, more impactful bass.


----------



## UntilThen

I was reading through this thread and gather from a few others that the B35 / 36 tubes have great synergy with 5998. I found only one on the whole of ebay and bought it. Seller says it's new - never used but untested.


----------



## UntilThen

vc1187 said:


> Stratus has arrived!
> 
> Initial impressions vs. Glenn OTL (Using HD800): *The Stratus is truly a beautiful sounding amp, but the Glenn OTL doesn't miss a beat and to my ears is an equal match for the big blue beast. * Glenn is configured with a Sylvania 3DG4, 2 GEC 6080, and Ken Rad 6SN7GT Black Glass. Stratus configured and tested with both stock tubes and EML Mesh 2A3s, with a few different 5U4G tubes in the rectifier position.
> 
> ...



This is good to know from one person's perspective. I was initially keen on a DNA Stratus but the more than a year wait might put me to sleep. 

VC seems to think that GOTL is an equal match to the DNA Stratus and he's not even using the 6 x 6BL7 version. I'm getting excited now. I need to listen to this GOTL with the most tube rolling flexibility I've ever come across.


----------



## 2359glenn

You got a B36/12SN7 this is a great sounding tube.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You got a B36/12SN7 this is a great sounding tube.



That is good to know. Looks new alright with the original wrapping.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> That is good to know. Looks new alright with the original wrapping.



However, I believe I see the words "foreign made" printed on this tube, so I have my doubts that it was actually manufactured by GEC/MOV.

When I consider purchasing clear-glass B36 or B65, I always look for the "umbrella spokes" hanging down from the top mica. This is the same construction found in the earlier gray-glass versions. For example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Marconi-Valve-Tube-B36-Bakelite-Base-Tested-/253146147538

Anyway, when yours arrives, I will be curious to learn what you think of it.


----------



## UntilThen

I just hope it works since it says untested.  What you link looks good and it just sold on 16th Sept. Must be to another Glenn OTL owner.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> There is also the EL3N amp that is a transformer coupled amp that can drive most phones
> The cost is more but about the same price as the OTL with all the mods.
> And I think the EL3N amp sounds better.



Incredible. I've been reading the thread... right from when Stavros got his GR Super 10. Till when you unveil the GEL3N. It's very clear you love the GEL3N.

I haven't even gotten the GOTL and I'm already thinking of the GEL3N. How could I not love EL3N. I still remember that fateful day when I spotted it on eBay whilst looking for 6N7G. 

Maybe later when I dispose of Ragnarok..... I've just sold off the Chord Mojo. Things are moving fast in my audio world. 

Oh, Langrex replied and said they don't have 13D1.


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> Incredible. I've been reading the thread... right from when Stavros got his GR Super 10. Till when you unveil the GEL3N. It's very clear you love the GEL3N.
> 
> I haven't even gotten the GOTL and I'm already thinking of the GEL3N. How could I not love EL3N. I still remember that fateful day when I spotted it on eBay whilst looking for 6N7G.
> 
> ...



Just when i thought of getting a spare for my 13D1


----------



## UntilThen

jekjek said:


> Just when i thought of getting a spare for my 13D1



At least you've heard it. I don't have a clue how it sounds.  Anyway between C3G, ECC31, 6SN7W and quite a lot of 6SN7s plus 6N7G, 6A6 - oh and the 1633 and B36, that should be ample. Less I be too carried away by tube rolling and forget the music. Fortunately I don't have to worry about rectifiers.


----------



## 2359glenn

The 13D1 sounds good but the B36 is better if you got a good one.
You have a good start of tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

It's 2 years of accumulation. I was right into it buying tubes. Then I stopped and so did the tube rolling. Now with the GOTL, guess it's all over again. Somethings never ends. 

Previously when I was looking to buy tubes in pairs, they are hard to find. It's always singles. Now I'm looking for nice singles, they come in pairs !!!


----------



## whirlwind

Ha!  Matt, you are doomed....all these rolling possibilities  

The B36 like this one sounds great


----------



## UntilThen

Too many possibilities indeed. Like 4 Bendix 6080wb at one go. That's kind of rich.   I've not heard an amp that uses 4 6as7g or 6080.

Now you're making me envious with that metal base Marconi. I want it.


----------



## whirlwind

You Atticus & Eikon should sound very nice on this amp along with the HD800 & HD650


----------



## UntilThen

They should sound great with your Holo Spring and GEL3N too. Both Eikon and Atticus sounds great. It's a right decision to buy them but Zach is about to unveil another headphone. 

I was just thinking about Zach telling me how he loves Atticus on Euforia with 6336. I still can't for the life of me see how 6336 will work in Euforia. I think he needs to listen to Atticus on GOTL with 6336.  You are right, I'm so looking forward to it but it won't be anytime soon. It's ok though I've far too many gear and setups to listen to at the moment. Listening to Tangerine Dream on vinyl through speakers. Just beautiful.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 2, 2017)

Good news. James of Langrex wrote to me and said they have Brimar 13D1 for me. 

I suggest you write to Langrex if you want the tube(s).

@ 10.00 GBP each.


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> Good news. James of Langrex wrote to me and said they have Brimar 13D1 for me.
> 
> I suggest you write to Langrex if you want the tube(s).
> 
> @ 10.00 GBP each.



Is it the single getter or double getter version?


----------



## UntilThen

jekjek said:


> Is it the single getter or double getter version?



I have no idea. When the whole universe has no 13D1, even half a getter will do.  So I told him I'll have 100. 

Nah... I told him I'll have 2. Waiting for his Paypal invoice.


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> I have no idea. When the whole universe has no 13D1, even half a getter will do.  So I told him I'll have 100.
> 
> Nah... I told him I'll have 2. Waiting for his Paypal invoice.


show  us your Brimar 13D1 when it arrive


----------



## UntilThen

I'll show you not just the 13D1 but also 3 vintage Marconi and GEC B36 from Stavros. Thanks Stavros.  I'm so looking forward to GOTL now.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn, can the ECC33 be use in the OTL amp?


----------



## ru4music

Santa's elves are hard at work in Glenn's workshop to bring me a new toy soon:


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Santa's elves are hard at work in Glenn's workshop to bring me a new toy soon:



Gebus, you're tempting me. My GOTL isn't even baked yet. I must say the 3 Lundahl transformers look very symmetrical and classy. I like it.

By the way Glenn, can you give GOTL and GEL3N names? Like Maximus and Bumblebee?


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> However, I believe I see the words "foreign made" printed on this tube, so I have my doubts that it was actually manufactured by GEC/MOV.


Yep. I see that some are marked _made in Holland, _but could be something else as well.


----------



## TonyNewman

That picture gives me a "Lundahl Woody". Is it weird to find an amp arousing? Probably 

For those interested in the world of 300B tubes, I have been rolling and burning in a bunch of 300Bs now that my amp is back in fighting trim and I would like to share some early thoughts on them...

*Takatsuki TA300B.*
The king. Simply the best 300B I have ever heard. Also easily the most expensive.
Build quality is superb - these are gorgeous tubes.
Sound is warm, rich, inviting, luscious.
If you are a vocal-freak (and I am) you need to hear these tubes before you die.
Push some Rebecca Pidgeon or Melody Gardot ... etc through them and you will understand what I mean.
Detail and extension are there as well as the mid range magic. 
These tubes are not 'one trick ponies' - something the vintage WE300B is sometimes accused of.

*Elrog ER300B*
It was with some trepidation that I purchased a pair of these. The history of the ER300B reliability and warranty support is not a happy one.
So far these tubes are performing flawlessly. Build quality is excellent. The glow of the thoriated tungsten is impressive.
SQ is detailed, extended, perhaps a tiny touch brighter than I would prefer, but far from fatiguing to me (and I am treble sensitive).

*EML 300B plate.*
Well made and thoroughly competent tube. Good all-rounder that does nothing wrong.
Does not have the romance of the Takatsuki or the detail of the EAT or Elrog, but is an honest performer.
I like this tube and I think it is perhaps the pick of the bunch for value.

*EAT 300B*
I did not like this tube when I used in my WA5. It was much too solid state and 'transistor' sounding to my ears.
Then I tried it in the Glenn amp and it was like a completely different tube. 
A good all around performer like the EML plate, but more detailed and extended to my ears.
Rather neutral in presentation. For classical and instrumental I go for this tube or the Elrog.
Very nice tube and a keeper.

*EML 300B Mesh*
Excellent build quality and an impressive looking tube. Significantly bigger glass envelope than most 300Bs, so make sure you have room to insert it on your amp (Glenn's amps should not be a problem as they have nicely spaced sockets - on something like a WA5 it could get ugly).
Sound is something between the TA300B and plate EML. Some romance and lushness in there, but perhaps lacking the extension of the TA300B. Very nice tube and a nice contrast to the EML 300B plate.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Gebus, you're tempting me. My GOTL isn't even baked yet. I must say the 3 Lundahl transformers look very symmetrical and classy. I like it.
> 
> By the way Glenn, can you give GOTL and GEL3N names? Like *Maximus and Bumblebee*?



Glennformers: The Lost Amps (coming to a theater near you!)


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Glennformers: The Lost Amps (coming to a theater near you!)



You are a genius. I didn't think about Glennsformers.... it didn't click until now.

Transformers = Glennsformers makes sense !!!


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> Glenn, can the ECC33 be use in the OTL amp?



Yes they can be used one of the best drivers IMHO but don't  take my word for it.


UntilThen said:


> I'll show you not just the 13D1 but also 3 vintage Marconi and GEC B36 from Stavros. Thanks Stavros.  I'm so looking forward to GOTL now.



You are most welcome Matt, it's my pleasure dealing with a gentleman and I appreciate your business, thank you.

I agree with Oskari it's most  likely they were made in Holland which means they are quality tubes.


----------



## Khragon

TonyNewman said:


> That picture gives me a "Lundahl Woody". Is it weird to find an amp arousing? Probably
> 
> For those interested in the world of 300B tubes, I have been rolling and burning in a bunch of 300Bs now that my amp is back in fighting trim and I would like to share some early thoughts on them...
> 
> ...



Good summary of the attributes for these tubes.  I agree with you on these, with minor exception to ER300B and the EML 300B Mesh.  I found the ER300B on the cold and sterile side, while the EML 300B Mesh to be too tubey and muddy.  TA300B really is magical, very happy to have Takatsuki making these, although as my luck would have it, I never own these for longer than 3 months, always having to sell them to get some quick $$ for other toys.  I'm curious on the new KR 300B HP series, @TonyNewman : want to give that a try as well and let us know


----------



## UntilThen

You are too kind Stavros. The pleasure is all mine instead in meeting you.

I had a look at ECC33 on ebay and the prices are jaw droppingly high. Will have to consider it later.


----------



## TonyNewman (Oct 4, 2017)

Khragon said:


> Good summary of the attributes for these tubes.  I agree with you on these, with minor exception to ER300B and the EML 300B Mesh.  I found the ER300B on the cold and sterile side, while the EML 300B Mesh to be too tubey and muddy.  TA300B really is magical, very happy to have Takatsuki making these, although as my luck would have it, I never own these for longer than 3 months, always having to sell them to get some quick $$ for other toys.  I'm curious on the new KR 300B HP series, @TonyNewman : want to give that a try as well and let us know



I am finding the EML mesh quite OK - not too mushy or muddy. My ER300Bs are the latest incarnation (from late 2016) - they are a touch bright, but otherwise I like them quite a bit. Not what I would chose for vocals, but for anything classical / instrumental they are rather good. The sound of the ER300B is a strange animal - hard to describe. Some folks have called it "internally lit" and I like those words. Excellent detail and extension. Just don't expect mid range magic as per the TA300B.

I wonder if my amp being modded with SS rectification has a part in the different impressions, as the tube impact is perhaps lessened somewhat as a result? Just a thought - no way to know without 2 otherwise identical amps to compare side by side.

The KR300B is a bit of a story. I spoke to a (previous) supplier who had stopped stocking KRs in favour of EMLs. Reasoning was as follows - the EML tubes are at least as good for SQ and reliability, and less expensive, and carry a more sensible warranty. The EML warranty clock starts ticking over when the vendor sells the tubes to the end user. The KR warranty clock starts ticking as soon as the vendor gets the tubes from the manufacturer - so the vendor is taking a big risk with holding too much stock with a reduced warranty and the user will only get a partial warranty - not the full 12 months - depending on how long the tubes have been with the vendor.

Given all this I am going to stop my 300B journey and enjoy the tubes that I have - I don't feel the need to go for the KR300Bs. One thing about rolling good quality 300Bs - it is absolute murder on your budget. Why 300Bs are so pricey is beyond me - often more expensive than an equivalent 211 or 845...etc.

EDIT - Just checked the pricing on the KR300B HP - around $1,500 USD. That is not all that far away from TA300B pricing. It would take a LOT of convincing to get me to shell out that sort of cash for a pair of KRs when the Taks are such proven performers - both for reliability and SQ. For all I know the KRs might justify every cent spent, but I am not going to take that sort of risk. I would rather buy a backup set of TA300Bs (but given the expected life of these tubes I might well be in the ground before they get much use).


----------



## whirlwind

TonyNewman said:


> That picture gives me a "Lundahl Woody". Is it weird to find an amp arousing? Probably
> 
> For those interested in the world of 300B tubes, I have been rolling and burning in a bunch of 300Bs now that my amp is back in fighting trim and I would like to share some early thoughts on them...
> 
> ...




Some great info on these tubes, could be very helpful for folks.


----------



## UntilThen

Courtesy of Stavros, these tubes are on their way to me. Thanks again Stavros. It's quite impossible to find these tubes now. I've never been more prepared for any other amp than this OTL. 

 

This tube is new in box.


----------



## 2359glenn

You are starting out with some mighty fine tubes


----------



## Rossliew

Don't let the tubes detract you from the music, UT


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You are starting out with some mighty fine tubes



A great amp needs mighty fine tubes and if anyone has them, it's Stavros.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Don't let the tubes detract you from the music, UT



Ross, it's all about the tubes. Without tubes there's no music. 

I just enquired with http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/ on EL3N tubes. That's the supplier I got my EL3N tubes from in the past. He told me that he still has lots of it. All NOS and NIB at 20 euro each. Peter is great to deal with.


----------



## rosgr63

Thanks for your kind words Matt.
I'm more than happy if I can help.
It's a shame for nice tubes to collect dust when a friend can enjoy them.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Yes they can be used one of the best drivers IMHO but don't  take my word for it.
> 
> 
> You are most welcome Matt, it's my pleasure dealing with a gentleman and I appreciate your business, thank you.
> ...



ECC33 Yes you can pop it right in set at 6.3 volts
Same with the B36 just set to 12.6 volts
And same with the 13D1 set to 25.2 volts

Another neat thing about this amp if you have it set at 12.6 or 25.2 volts and put in a 6.3 volt tube it will
automatically current limit and will not harm the tube.
Mistakes happen and can't have expensive tubes get blown.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Thanks for your kind words Matt.
> I'm more than happy if I can help.
> It's a shame for nice tubes to collect dust when a friend can enjoy them.



I had to stop the evaluation of my stereo amps when I read this. Some things are more profound and touching than the pursuit of the ultimate sound. In searching for a reply, I can only think of one word. Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

Stavros is a great guy and friend I go to Greece once a year to see him.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Courtesy of Stavros, these tubes are on their way to me. Thanks again Stavros. It's quite impossible to find these tubes now. I've never been more prepared for any other amp than this OTL.
> 
> 
> 
> This tube is new in box.




Wonderful tubes!  From the vintage Starvos collection  

Isn't it going to be great just needing one driver tube  !


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> ECC33 Yes you can pop it right in set at 6.3 volts
> Same with the B36 just set to 12.6 volts
> And same with the 13D1 set to 25.2 volts
> 
> ...



Thanks for this Glenn. I'm starting to see when to use the 6.3 / 12.6 / 25.2 switch. Good to know your amp has safety built in not to blow 6.3v tubes when switched to a higher voltage.

To that list I'll add:-

ECC33 Yes you can pop it right in set at 6.3 volts
Same with the B36 / FDD20 just set to 12.6 volts
And same with the 13D1 / 1633 set to 25.2 volts

Someday I'll try the ECC33 because Stavros just got me curious.

Initially I thought when using 6336 power tubes, I have to switch to 25.2. A check of the 6336 tube data spec shows that it's 6.3v.


----------



## whirlwind

You will only need to use the 6/12/25 volt switch for the driver tubes

No need to worry about the power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Isn't it going to be great just needing one driver tube !



I'm starting to appreciate this now. It effectively halved my tube spending cost.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I'm starting to appreciate this now. It effectively halved my tube spending cost.



You are in for many weeks (months/years) of happy rolling! GOTL will treat all your tubes well, this is the Ultra Quiet One. The Mighty and Ultra Quiet One.  : )

So happy I did not overlook the GOTL, I did consider going with the EL3N first, now that I have the GOTL, I can't imagine NOT having it.
And that's with only ~80 hours on this new wonder. This Lundahl transformer is almost nonexistent on the noise floor. Actually, should be called the no-noise floor.

Did you go with the 5V rectifier setup? I only have a few rectifiers, lots of driver and power tubes but only a few rectifiers.
Using the Mullard GZ37 at the moment, at first did not like it at all, too tight and a little distant or recessed, but it's coming around, much better now.
At first the Svetlana 5C3S (from Glenn) was much better than the GZ37, and it is very good; open, detailed, immersive soundstage with no deficiencies in dynamics or the low end.
But I'm not sure if it's being pushed too hard with the 6336Bs, and the Mullard is coming around now, we'll see where it goes. 
Also have tried the 5AW4 briefly, sounds somewhere between these other two, but it needs time.

All the drivers I have sound good in this GOTL, none have shown any noise at all. Power tubes, all new tubes, I had to sort and toss some noisy ones, but of the types I've tried so far, they all sound good and have something to offer (and some are outstanding). Many possible combinations and soundscapes.

For now, I'm fixated on the C3g/6336B synergy. I know you picked up the 6336B, maybe you also picked up the C3g?
May your GOTL Waiting Days be short! LOL, I know it doesn't help with everyone telling you how good the GOTL is!


----------



## 2359glenn

Initially I thought when using 6336 power tubes, I have to switch to 25.2. A check of the 6336 tube data spec shows that it's 6.3v. [/QUOTE]

The output tube sockets are only 6.3 volts.
6.3 > 12.6 > 25.2 volt switch is only for the SN7 socket.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 4, 2017)

@rnros I had 2 years of intense tube rolling on Elise and Euforia. Anymore tube rolling will send me to a mental institution.

However I will make an exception for GOTL. This will make my past tube rolling adventures pale in comparison.

I just bought a NOS pair of Siemens C3G. Have a NOS Mullard ECC31 coming. Plus the tube that I wanted to try most. FDD20 - haven't use this in ages. This blue tube does sound very good.

It's very good to hear of your very favourable impressions of GOTL even at this initial stage.

I am waiting for it with unabated breath. Everything is ready for it. From Yaggdrasil to all my headphones and countless tubes. I foresee many countless hours of lost sleep when I get it.

Fyi I still haven't finish painting my deck.

Ps... I went with HEXFRED instead of tube rectifiers. Not having to roll with rectifiers might give me the slim hope of staying sane.


----------



## attmci (Oct 4, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> @rnros I had 2 years of intense tube rolling on Elise and Euforia. Anymore tube rolling will send me to a mental institution.
> 
> However I will make an exception for GOTL. This will make my past tube rolling adventures pale in comparison.
> 
> ...


countless tubes.???????? NOT yet, unless you will collect enough, say combine Skylab and Ken's collection. Way to go! LOL

BTW,  glad you moved here.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> countless tubes.???????? NOT yet, unless you will collect enough, say combine Skylab and Ken's collection. Way to go! LOL
> 
> BTW,  glad you moved here.



I can't compare with those 2 legends. I am a mere mortal. They had 20 years of tube collections. I have 2 years lol.

But attmci, I want to see your stash.  I think you have all the good tubes.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> countless tubes.???????? NOT yet, unless you will collect enough, say combine Skylab and Ken's collection. Way to go! LOL



I am quite sure my collection is rather small compared to that of Skylab, and I suspect to that of Stavros, as well. And a lot of my tubes are specific to my old Little Dot and these probably shouldn't even count....


UntilThen said:


> I can't compare with those 2 legends. I am a mere mortal. They had 20 years of tube collections. I have 2 years lol.



Legend? 20 years? lol. Well, yes it is true that I am an old geezer, but I didn't purchase my first tube amp, the Little Dot, until five years ago. So I've been at this for only three more years than you. So get cracking young'un!


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 5, 2017)

Maybe Starvos can post a picture of some of his tube collection.....Glenn told me once it is the best he has ever seen.

Starvos also provides great history about some of the tubes...like the Bendix 6080 tubes being used in missells during the war, great stuff when you stop and think about it.

@rnros at some point I want to try the Mullard GZ37  in the GEL3N amp...I have liked every Mulard and Gec tube that I have ever tried.


----------



## jekjek

whirlwind said:


> Maybe Starvos can post a picture of some of his tube collection.....Glenn told me once it is the best he has ever seen.
> 
> Starvos also provides great history about some of the tubes...like the Bendix 6080 tubes being used in missells during the war, great stuff when you stop and think about it.
> 
> @rnros at some point I want to try the Mullard GZ37  in the GEL3N amp...I have liked every Mulard and Gec tube that I have ever tried.



Tube zen guru!


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 5, 2017)

jekjek said:


> Tube zen guru!



Ha! Yeah for sure.

People around these parts are very knowledgeable about their tubes...Starvos, gibosi, Glenn and many more.
One is never hurting for tube info


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> So get cracking young'un!



Well I'll just pretend that I'm still young and get cracking right away.... after all I have 3 years to catch up with you. 

So I just bought a sextet of GE 6BX7GT tubes from Thailand. The main draw card of GOTL is 6 x 6B*7 tubes so I might as well be armed with all the different varieties.


----------



## UntilThen

I bought this from Stavros a few months ago. The specs are so perfect, I dare not use the tubes much. I only use them once every blue moon and you don't see blue moon ..... ever.


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> I bought this from Stavros a few months ago. The specs are so perfect, I dare not use the tubes much. I only use them once every blue moon and you don't see blue moon ..... ever.


Holy tubes!


----------



## UntilThen

I intend to use the GEC 6as7g with these GEC 6080 driven by the GEC B36. This will be the GEC team.  

They will go head to head with 2 other teams.

Siemens C3G and 6 x GE 6BX7GT

FDD20 or Mullard ECC31 and 4 x Tung Sol 5998

I can't wait !!!


----------



## UntilThen

jekjek said:


> Holy tubes!



You're right. If you look hard enough, you will see halos on top of the tubes when it's lighted.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Maybe Starvos can post a picture of some of his tube collection.....Glenn told me once it is the best he has ever seen.
> 
> Starvos also provides great history about some of the tubes...like the Bendix 6080 tubes being used in missells during the war, great stuff when you stop and think about it.
> 
> @rnros at some point I want to try the Mullard GZ37  in the GEL3N amp...I have liked every Mulard and Gec tube that I have ever tried.



I was at Stavros house and he showed me his collection he has all the best tubes ever made.
He showed me a pair of NOS Raytheon VT52 box plate tubes I got a woodie . Never ever seen these tubes before in my life.
For those that don't know a VT52 is a 6.3 volt 45. If I had them I would drop everything and start building a amp for them.


----------



## Rossliew

Just borrow them from Stavros and build your dream amp


----------



## 2359glenn

To expensive I would be afraid of them.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> To expensive I would be afraid of them.



Come on Glenn.
The VT-52 are audio tubes used in aircraft radios, they can run at 6.3V and 7V.
6.3V during idling when the aircraft was waiting at the apron, and 7V when flying at full speed.




UntilThen said:


> I had to stop the evaluation of my stereo amps when I read this. Some things are more profound and touching than the pursuit of the ultimate sound. In searching for a reply, I can only think of one word. Thanks.



I'm very grateful for your friendship and kind words.
I wish I could give my tubes away free nothing would please me more.
I'm afraid I can't nowadays I have to recover my costs.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I can't compare with those 2 legends. I am a mere mortal. They had 20 years of tube collections. I have 2 years lol.
> 
> But attmci, I want to see your stash.  I think you have all the good tubes.


I don't. The tubes got me excited a couple of years ago are 6bx7/6bl7. The tubes scared me of are 300B/PX4/45/2A3, and 422A etc.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I don't. The tubes got me excited a couple of years ago are 6bx7/6bl7. The tubes scared me of are 300B/PX4/45/2A3, and 422A etc.



I'll stay away from 300b and KT150. I'm leaning in favour of the ss amp now for stereo instead of the Primaluna. So there could be changes there.

However, it looks like I need another driver for GOTL. I have lusted after this for a while and it's NOS and the best thing is I only need one now.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 5, 2017)

rosgr63 said:


> I'm very grateful for your friendship and kind words.
> I wish I could give my tubes away free nothing would please me more.
> I'm afraid I can't nowadays I have to recover my costs.



You have a friend here down under should you wish to visit this part of the world.

You should never give your tubes away. Recover the cost by all means. Those who buy it will be grateful that you've preserve the tubes so well. I'm still amazed that there are NOS tubes of good variety these days. Some of the best are still kept intact. I wonder what it must be like back in the heydays of tube glory.


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> Come on Glenn.
> The VT-52 are audio tubes used in aircraft radios, they can run at 6.3V and 7V.
> 6.3V during idling when the aircraft was waiting at the apron, and 7V when flying at full speed.
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

Stavros I need the VT-52 for my WW2 aircraft at the Australian Museum.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Stavros I need the VT-52 for my WW2 aircraft at the Australian Museum.



What good are they at a Museum never to be used.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> However, it looks like I need another driver for GOTL. I have lusted after this for a while and it's NOS and the best thing is I only need one now.



Metal base SYL JAN 6SN7W, rare tube! Reflected in the price, of course. Let us know how it sounds compared to the brown and black base.

Don't think I will purchase from Langrex again, always thought they were a solid operation. Oh well, things change.
Still waiting after 5 weeks for an email response on a problem with my last order. LOL Who needs that kind of service?!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I was at Stavros house and he showed me his collection he has all the best tubes ever made.
> He showed me a pair of NOS Raytheon VT52 box plate tubes I got a woodie . Never ever seen these tubes before in my life.
> For those that don't know a VT52 is a 6.3 volt 45. If I had them I would drop everything and start building a amp for them.



Starvos has all the best tubes and all the best food!!!

I hear the 45's are wonderful sounding tubes.  

Doesn't Tyrell have a 45 amp that you built for him?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> You have a friend here down under should you wish to visit this part of the world.
> 
> You should never give your tubes away. Recover the cost by all means. Those who buy it will be grateful that you've preserve the tubes so well. I'm still amazed that there are NOS tubes of good variety these days. Some of the best are still keep intact. I wonder what it must be like back in the heydays of tube glory.



I am just messing with Stavros we are good friends.
But if he don't send them I will be knocking on his door looking for food.
He usually feeds me to death I went visiting him and gained 15 pounds 6.8Kg in 10 days.
I left with a smile on my face.


----------



## UntilThen

@rnros I didn't know there's a 6sn7w brown base.

I do have a pair of black base so I will let you know if there is a difference with the metallic base.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Starvos has all the best tubes and all the best food!!!
> 
> I hear the 45's are wonderful sounding tubes.
> 
> Doesn't Tyrell have a 45 amp that you built for him?



Yes C3g's driving 45's nice sounding amp


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I am just messing with Stavros we are good friends.
> But if he don't send them I will be knocking on his door looking for food.
> He usually feeds me to death I went visiting him and gained 15 pounds 6.8Kg in 10 days.
> I left with a smile on my face.



Well I was messing with him asking him to send me the tubes for the WW2 aircraft but I thought you were serious about building another special amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Well I was messing with him asking him to send me the tubes for the WW2 aircraft but I thought you were serious about building another special amp.



If I did I would give it to him 
He has to many amps already maybe.


----------



## Neogeo333

All these tube porn is making me hungry.  Hey Glenn this is waiting for you.


----------



## 2359glenn

That is what we need PIZZA Porn.
Making me hungry and it is 4:40am


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 6, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> Yes C3g's driving 45's nice sounding amp



I thought so.  Have not seen him here in awhile...hope all is well.

Started listening to this 6 cd set last night...maybe will finish it late tonight or tomorrow morning.
Six Cd's ...92 Songs

Highly recommended to any Tom Petty fans....can't believe I bought my first Petty album in 1976 and have listened to him ever since...R.I.P Tom


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> That is what we need PIZZA Porn.
> Making me hungry and it is 4:40am


Why are you up at such ungodly hours?


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Highly recommended to any Tom Petty fans....can't believe I bought my first Petty album in 1976 and have listened to him ever since...R.I.P Tom



When I think of Tom Petty, I think of this song by the Travelling Wilburys. What a talented group. I should say talented individuals coming together as a group.


----------



## lukeap69

Any reason you are not building 45 amps Glenn? Are 45 tubes scarce or expensive?


----------



## 2359glenn (Oct 6, 2017)

Both scarce and expensive.
If some one asks for a 45 or VT52 amp I will make it for them so I do make them.
I made @Xcalibur255   45 amp some years ago.

I think the EL3N amp sounds almost as good and they only cost $20 each.
That is the kind of tube I like cheep.  I have to think about replacing my 300B amps
at home with something.  Had a 300B burn out and it's $1000 to replace them crazy.
Thinking about a EL34/6CA7 amp to replace them?  This is for my speakers.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> You have a friend here down under should you wish to visit this part of the world.
> 
> 
> You should never give your tubes away. Recover the cost by all means. Those who buy it will be grateful that you've preserve the tubes so well. I'm still amazed that there are NOS tubes of good variety these days. Some of the best are still kept intact. I wonder what it must be like back in the heydays of tube glory.




Thanks Matt, same applies if you ever visit my part of the world.
When tubes were in their glory we were throwing slightly used B65's in the bin when I was in a UK research facility!!!!!!!!!
We were SS fans then.
I bought most of my tubes in the last 10 years so I payed a premium unfortunately.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> I am just messing with Stavros we are good friends.
> But if he don't send them I will be knocking on his door looking for food.
> He usually feeds me to death I went visiting him and gained 15 pounds 6.8Kg in 10 days.
> I left with a smile on my face.



Yes we are very good friends and tube addicts who enjoy nice food.

George's food photos are amazing!!!!!!!


----------



## musicman59

UntilThen said:


> When I think of Tom Petty, I think of this song by the Travelling Wilburys. What a talented group. I should say talented individuals coming together as a group.



It's sad to think they are just two of them left in this earth and who would think Dylan would be one of them....
I love the song :Handle with care.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=L8s9dmuAKvU&usg=AOvVaw25pSGJhDC2mP0hC3PJ_g44


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I think the EL3N amp sounds almost as good and they only cost $20 each.
> That is the kind of tube I like cheep. I have to think about replacing my 300B amps
> at home with something. Had a 300B burn out and it's $1000 to replace them crazy.
> Thinking about a EL34/6CA7 amp to replace them? This is for my speakers.



Waking up at 5am on a Sat morning and reading this wakes me up. A EL34/6CA7 to drive both speakers and headphones. I'll see how your thoughts evolve.

I have a Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP driving my speakers now and if I wanted to, it will drive my headphones well too. It uses 6x12au7 and 8xEL34 / 6550/ KT77 / KT88 / KT120 / KT150. Currently I'm on KT88 tubes but it sounded a bit bright and lean. EL34s will probably be more lush and euphonic but I'm not sure if I'll keep this amp. The solid state amp I'm also auditioning with my speakers sounds better to my ears.

So if you do go ahead with a EL34 creation, I'll watch with interest.


----------



## UntilThen

Back to tubes again.... ever since I relinquished my Valvo c3gs to Ross, I had to get another pair again. So it's Telefunken this time but I know @gibosi will tell me they are all made by Siemens. Which is ok....


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Waking up at 5am on a Sat morning and reading this wakes me up. A EL34/6CA7 to drive both speakers and headphones. I'll see how your thoughts evolve.
> 
> I have a Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP driving my speakers now and if I wanted to, it will drive my headphones well too. It uses 6x12au7 and 8xEL34 / 6550/ KT77 / KT88 / KT120 / KT150. Currently I'm on KT88 tubes but it sounded a bit bright and lean. EL34s will probably be more lush and euphonic but I'm not sure if I'll keep this amp. The solid state amp I'm also auditioning with my speakers sounds better to my ears.
> 
> So if you do go ahead with a EL34 creation, I'll watch with interest.



What I am thinking about is four EL34s in parallel so the amp will be single ended not push pull.
So that would be 8 for a stereo amp.
Single ended this would only make 20 watts per channel but a nice sounding 20 watts.
I was planing on building this for someone but they backed out when I gave them the price of the Lundahl transformers.
I will not use cheep crappy sounding transformers.


----------



## UntilThen

I went to a friend's place and he had a SE tube amp driving his small full range speakers with horns mounted on top. Sounded very good with classical and jazz. His amp uses GEC 6as7g though.

He also told me that whilst push pull has more power, single ended sounded sweeter. With efficient speakers 20 watts is more than enough. 

Eight EL34s and Lundahl transformers? Sounds very nice.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Back to tubes again.... ever since I relinquished my Valvo c3gs to Ross, I had to get another pair again. So it's Telefunken this time but I know @gibosi will tell me they are all made by Siemens. Which is ok....



Of course, they are OK. In fact, they are great. 

I just want to caution anyone against paying more for a Siemens just because it has the Telefunken or Valvo brand.


----------



## 2359glenn

Some people say they are not the same.
But I think they are all Siemens.
Don't matter the best driver tube I ever used to drive 300Bs 6SN7s don't cut it.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> What I am thinking about is four EL34s in parallel so the amp will be single ended not push pull.
> So that would be 8 for a stereo amp.
> Single ended this would only make 20 watts per channel but a nice sounding 20 watts.
> I was planing on building this for someone but they backed out when I gave them the price of the Lundahl transformers.
> I will not use cheep crappy sounding transformers.



I have an old dynaco st 70 amp as well
So which EL34 tubes you think is good and cheep?


----------



## TonyNewman (Oct 6, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> Some people say they are not the same.
> But I think they are all Siemens.
> Don't matter the best driver tube I ever used to drive 300Bs 6SN7s don't cut it.



I have stripped the metal shell from Lorenz / Siemans / Telefunken - all are absolutely identical internally and externally to my eyes - only the branding is different. SQ-wise I cannot hear any difference whatsoever between them. Ditto the 'S' versions with the higher transconductance.

There are some very early production C3Gs from Lorenz that are different. These are said to be slightly warmer sounding. The only examples I have are quite worn out and didn't sound great - so I can't talk about the SQ. The internals are different for these vs Siemens.

I have posted pics of these way back in this thread - other have also.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Of course, they are OK. In fact, they are great.
> 
> I just want to caution anyone against paying more for a Siemens just because it has the Telefunken or Valvo brand.



Surprisingly this time the Telefunkens and ITT Lorenz are about the same price as the Siemens. All with S but I wasn't partuclarly looking for S.

As I bought a pair of Siemens earlier I thought I will pick a different brand now just for a different look.


----------



## UntilThen

jekjek said:


> I have an old dynaco st 70 amp as well
> So which EL34 tubes you think is good and cheep?



All NOS EL34 are expensive. Only the modern EL34 are cheap. I was about to buy eight modern Tungsol EL34 but halted it to buy tubes for GOTL instead.

Modern meaning make in Russia.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Don't matter the best driver tube I ever used to drive 300Bs 6SN7s don't cut it.


----------



## jekjek (Oct 7, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> All NOS EL34 are expensive. Only the modern EL34 are cheap. I was about to buy eight modern Tungsol EL34 but halted it to buy tubes for GOTL instead.
> 
> Modern meaning make in Russia.



Tube porn
Do you know where can i get these babe


----------



## UntilThen

jekjek said:


> Do you know where can i get these babe



There.  Cheep cheep.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EL34-MINIWA...hash=item27e022d546:m:myTe0sh9ZQNjc_YduNs-8Uw


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 7, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> Some people say they are not the same.
> But I think they are all Siemens.
> Don't matter the best driver tube I ever used to drive 300Bs 6SN7s don't cut it.



I find this to be true with your OTL amp as well, I love all my driver tubes and roll them to change up the sound.

But to be honest, I could live with just the 5998 and C3g's.....great combo in the OTL amp.....nice bass and dynamics and very transparent drivers. The SN7 tubes sound wonderful in the OTL, but if I was forced to choose, I would take the C3g's.

The C3g's make all power tubes sound wonderful, even the cheap ones!
I leave the black  shield on mine, as I figure it is to help with noise.


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> There.  Cheep cheep.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EL34-MINIWA...hash=item27e022d546:m:myTe0sh9ZQNjc_YduNs-8Uw



I prefer to order GOTL with that money


----------



## 2359glenn

I might have to give up on a amp that uses 8 EL34s. What is the point might better stay with the 300B
Build a amp that uses 8 EL3Ns probably will sound better but less power
And the EL3N is the predecessor to the EL34.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> I might have to give up on a amp that uses 8 EL34s. What is the point might better stay with the 300B
> Build a amp that uses 8 EL3Ns probably will sound better but less power
> And the EL3N is the predecessor to the EL34.



Can we modify the dynaco st70 to accept EL34, maybe by an adapter?


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn, is it possible to have an amp with EL3N driven by C3G ?


----------



## 2359glenn

Rossliew said:


> Glenn, is it possible to have an amp with EL3N driven by C3G ?



Yes that is no problem.
I was thinking about it.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Yes that is no problem.
> I was thinking about it.




We talked about doing this with my amp...I would think it should sound very nice.


----------



## Rossliew

Hmm..with the Elise, c3g driving 6AS7 is very musical and impactful. Wondering if this can be replicated using other power tubes..


----------



## 2359glenn

Sure it can.
I use the C3g in all my 300B amps always did. At least the ones I sold
In the past I tried many other drivers 6SN7 , 6DN7 , 6BM8/ECL82 and I didn't like the sound of any of them.
When I tried the C3g it was a holy crap moment this tube is it. It has all the details a neutral sound no coloring at all.


----------



## gibosi

Rossliew said:


> Hmm..with the Elise, c3g driving 6AS7 is very musical and impactful. Wondering if this can be replicated using other power tubes..



It is important to remember that the Elise was not designed to run C3g. The adapter helps to make it somewhat comfortable in a 6SN7 socket, but still it is not optimal...

That said, I find the 6BL7 / 6BX7, used as outputs in the GOTL, are a wonderful match for the C3g.


----------



## UntilThen

I nodded in agreement with the last 3 comments.

1. With Elise, c3g driving 6AS7 is very musical and impactful.
2. When I tried the C3g it was a holy **** moment this tube is it. It has all the details a neutral sound no coloring at all.
3. It is important to remember that the Elise was not designed to run C3g.

This is the reason I wanted to get GOTL. If C3G sounded good in Elise that was not designed for it, how much better it would sound in an amp designed for it. Ken and other's assertion that 6BL7 / 6BX7, used as outputs in the GOTL, are a wonderful match for the C3g is one of the main reasons for my getting GOTL. Fortunately C3G and 6BL7 tubes are still available today and they are still at reasonable prices.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 7, 2017)

I literally have a few days left with Euforia. Someone offered to buy it and make me an offer I cannot refuse. I can assure you, he's not the Godfather. 

Will I miss Euforia? Yes because as I listen again now to Euforia with HD800, Eikon and Atticus, I can't help but feel that the tone is very good. Will I regret selling it. Probably not. One, I cannot keep so many headphone amps in my large table. Two, I'm a good punter. If I didn't think that GOTL is a worthy replacement and even better, I wouldn't have make this move. The Schiit combo will stay. They look right together. Besides I like Yggdrasil a lot.

Primaluna in the lounge happens to be a very good headphone amp too but I prefer to do my headphone listening in my study. I probably spend 50 - 50 of my time on speakers and headphones now. My problem now is trying to fit the 27" iMac and PC with 27" screen on the large L shaped table with all the other gear. At the moment, I had to decommissioned the iMac and it's sitting on the floor which is a shame because I felt that Audirvana Plus on the Mac sounds better than Roon on my PC.

That position on the left will 'soon' be occupied by GOTL.


----------



## 2359glenn

UT
I received the rest of the parts for your amp today.
So I have them all chassis transformer capacitors chokes Gold Point.
Just have to finish the EL3N amp I am building then start on yours.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> UT
> I received the rest of the parts for your amp today.
> So I have them all chassis transformer capacitors chokes Gold Point.
> Just have to finish the EL3N amp I am building then start on yours.



BIG hug for you !!! 

I was thinking out loud about asking you whether it's possible to cover the chokes with the same covering as the Lundahl transformers. But then the naked chokes might look better the way it is. What do you think?

Whatever it is, I'm very excited now. All the tubes will be here, primed and ready. Ah still need the adapters for FDD20, ECC31/6N7 and 6J8G from you.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> *BIG hug for you !!!*
> 
> I was thinking out loud about asking you whether it's possible to cover the chokes...





2359glenn said:


> UT
> I received the rest of the parts for your amp today.
> So I have them all chassis transformer capacitors chokes Gold Point.
> *Just have to finish the EL3N amp I am building then start on yours.*



Big hugs to both of you!!!


----------



## UntilThen

@ru4music  I guess the EL3N amp is for you.   Hugs for you too lol.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> BIG hug for you !!!
> 
> I was thinking out loud about asking you whether it's possible to cover the chokes with the same covering as the Lundahl transformers. But then the naked chokes might look better the way it is. What do you think?
> 
> Whatever it is, I'm very excited now. All the tubes will be here, primed and ready. Ah still need the adapters for FDD20, ECC31/6N7 and 6J8G from you.



I have no room on that chassis to do that.
Have done that and used Lundahl choke on the amp that @jelt2359 has but a much bigger chassis.


----------



## UntilThen

No problem Glenn. Jetl's version is the best and no doubt expensive. 'As is' is good enough for me. Well more than good for anyone. It has 47 steps gold point.


----------



## Rossliew

The excitement is palpable! Can't wait for everyone to receive their amps and hear impressions of them  at the moment I'm enjoying the Elise and my vintage Nad3020


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> BIG hug for you !!!
> 
> 
> Whatever it is, I'm very excited now. All the tubes will be here, primed and ready. Ah still need the adapters for FDD20, ECC31/6N7 and 6J8G from you.



6J8G ???  this tube will not work in this amp 
Did you mean 6F8G


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 7, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> 6J8G ???  this tube will not work in this amp
> Did you mean 6F8G



Oh of course it's 6F8G. Too many tubes lately lol.

For my Tungsol 'Lafayette' 6F8G NOS. Seller says it's better than Tungsol 6sn7gt black glass round plates. He's either right or he's bullshitting.


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations both of you!!!

Do your TS 6F8G have round or flat plates?

Have you tried the NU 6F8G's?


----------



## UntilThen

I don't know. I can't see in this picture. All it says is black plates, black glass, best 6F8G - better than the round plates Tung Sol 6sn7.  I have not tried 6F8G before. This will be the first.


----------



## UntilThen

As if I need another driver, I won this Ken Rad 6sn7 at an auction. It's new - never used. That's what the seller says. Look new to me. Never had a Ken Rad before so this is a good addition.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 8, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I literally have a few days left with Euforia. Someone offered to buy it and make me an offer I cannot refuse. I can assure you, he's not the Godfather.
> 
> Will I miss Euforia? Yes because as I listen again now to Euforia with HD800, Eikon and Atticus, I can't help but feel that the tone is very good. Will I regret selling it. Probably not. One, I cannot keep so many headphone amps in my large table. Two, I'm a good punter. If I didn't think that GOTL is a worthy replacement and even better, I wouldn't have make this move. The Schiit combo will stay. They look right together. Besides I like Yggdrasil a lot.
> 
> ...



UT, do you like the Atticus better with Euphoria or the Rag ?

To be honest, I like that Glenn's amps don't have everything hid under the hood...I love the look with the chokes and caps up top so you can see them and not covered up.
Only my personal preference, but I like it. I prefer old school look to that of the new shiny stuff.

Glenns amp is probably bigger than Euphoria, so you will lose a little space, not much I would imagine.

You will definitely need to make more time for yourself to listen to all of your new gear...speakers, amps, cans....ect.
Good times for you.  

By round plates, this is what Starvos means on your 6F8G....not the best picture, but you may see the rounded plates at the top of the mica.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> UT, do you like the Atticus better with Euphoria or the Rag ?
> 
> To be honest, I like that Glenn's amps don't have everything hid under the hood...I love the look with the chokes and caps up top so you can see them and not covered up.
> Only my personal preference, but I like it. I prefer old school look to that of the new shiny stuff.
> ...



That's a tough one. I happen to like Atticus and Eikon on both Euforia and Ragnarok. One is more warm and lush. The other is tighter, leaner and tauter. I could live with either and I enjoy both presentations.

Now this is where I might be fascinated with GOTL. I think it will give me both presentations depending on the tubes rolled. If that happens then it's a truly versatile tube amp.

Yeah now that I had a look at some of the pictures of Glenn's amp on the internet, I do like the open look of the chokes. It has the look and feel of a vintage amp. Don't forget I'm also old school with a young mind. 

I can not get enough time on my speakers and headphones. I had just spend several hours comparing Redgum RGi120ENR black series against Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP. This analogy is not 100% accurate but you get the idea. The Redgum sounded like Atticus and the Primaluna sounded like HD800 - speakers of course. Guess which I prefer? 

Now I'm back in my study with Eikon being driven by Euforia. Now this is cringe worthy. It's worth missing going to the movies with the family. They left without me but I'm oblivious of anything but the euphony that my ears are hearing. I turn on the TV and after 5 mins, I switched it off and go back to listening to music again. Sounds like a bad affliction? 

Btw I much prefer Eikon over Atticus but don't let me influence you. The truth is that both are very good. My son came over last week and seeing that I have so many headphones, he wanted to borrow one to compare with his HE560. I pointed to the LCD-2f and told him the others are out of bounds. So he has the LCD-2f on loan now.


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks for your reply.  I much prefer warm and lush over a lean sound and I already have some pretty detailed cans...The Ori is not a detail freaks headphone, but that is not want I want with my closed dynamic can...I just want musical with a nice tame treble.

I know you like lots of detail and I like that too, but I have a couple cans like that and Zach told me i will love the blues with the Atticus

Then again, I think I tend to lean toward more musical than detail. After a talk to Zach...I am set on the Atticus.

That being said I have never heard either, so I am buying blind, even though I have a good idea of what I will be getting.

The HD800 trumps the Ori with detail 10 fold....but I still have been grabbing for the Ori more, it is just more fun.

I would also pick a  good album over a good movie any day.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> As if I need another driver, I won this Ken Rad 6sn7 at an auction. It's new - never used. That's what the seller says. Look new to me. Never had a Ken Rad before so this is a good addition.



I like this tube, nice low end one of my favourite US tubes. 



UntilThen said:


> I don't know. I can't see in this picture. All it says is black plates, black glass, best 6F8G - better than the round plates Tung Sol 6sn7.  I have not tried 6F8G before. This will be the first.



They look like flat plates, Joe's are round plates.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> They look like flat plates, Joe's are round plates.



Dang ..... do you have a round plate you can part with?


----------



## rosgr63

For you Matt yes I do, don't worry.


----------



## UntilThen

Joe, now that you mention blues and we're both blues lovers. That being the case, definitely the Atticus. Eric Clapton and BB King have never sounded better. Mighty Sam McClain too. I love this song. Had the SACD version for 20 years.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> For you Matt yes I do, don't worry.



Woohoo. I'll message you.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I don't know. I can't see in this picture. All it says is black plates, black glass, best 6F8G - better than the round plates Tung Sol 6sn7.  I have not tried 6F8G before. This will be the first.



Funny to see that when I was a child in the 1960s my father would drive me to Lafayette to buy parts to build radios and amps.
I suppose it is a re brand Tung-Sol Lafayette didn't make tubes just sold them.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Funny to see that when I was a child in the 1960s my father would drive me to Lafayette to buy parts to build radios and amps.
> I suppose it is a re brand Tung-Sol Lafayette didn't make tubes just sold them.




When my father repaired tv's and radios, when I was a kid, he had a lot of old tube radios, many different brands.

When he passed most of that stuff got pitched and a little bit of it got sold.
I really wish I would have saved some of the old radios...I would love to own a working one now...but they are a little pricey.

I remember him giving me an old one when I was out in the shop with him, under his feet....I would tear it apart like i was fixing it, really had no idea, all i knew was I had some tools and was doing what Dad did, lol.


----------



## UntilThen

I thought Lafayette is a French town but a google search shows so many US towns with that name as well. I'll soon know how that tube sounds. Could be a French and American cross.


----------



## 2359glenn (Oct 8, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I thought Lafayette is a French town but a google search shows so many US towns with that name as well. I'll soon know how that tube sounds. Could be a French and American cross.



The one I am talking about was a electronic parts company on Long Island New York out of business now.
I also bought parts from Allied electronics in the 60s still in business and many parts for your amp came from them.


----------



## UntilThen

The powers of the search engine. Had a quick look up of the Lafayette Radio Electronics Corporation based in Syosett, New York. Quite a big player competing with Radio Shacks in the 70s.

Allied Electronics as you said still in business and they have a long history - 85 years and still going. Good to know where parts of my amp are coming from.


----------



## gibosi

rosgr63 said:


> Have you tried the NU 6F8G's?



And I would agree. The NU 6F8G is a very good sounding tube, well worth trying.


----------



## rosgr63

Great tubes indeed but in some circuits they can be noisy.


----------



## gibosi

Agreed. My first two were noisy, but the third one is a winner.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> And I would agree. The NU 6F8G is a very good sounding tube, well worth trying.



You got my attention. Let's hope it's quiet. Why just NU. I thought the TS 6F8G is the one - I mean as good as the TS 6sn7gt black glass round plates.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> You got my attention. Let's hope it's quiet. Why just NU. I thought the TS 6F8G is the one - I mean as good as the TS 6sn7gt black glass round plates.


Do u have TS BGRP? You should try one. and get the Fivre 6SN7 and ECC33 from 



 
*rosgr63*


----------



## UntilThen

Head palm. Attmci you are a bad influence.

All in good time. I have so many good drivers now, it's out doing the powers.

Now I have to decide the first tube combo I will be using in Gotham. I am thinking the c3g and 6x6BL7 for a start.


----------



## UntilThen

Or maybe start with one 6sn7 and a pair of 6080 and work my way up.


----------



## UntilThen

I will pass on the Fivre 6sn7. I have with me the best Fivre and Visseaux 6n7g and 6a6. Vintage stuff with classic labels on the glass. And of course the super glow Mazda 6n7g. 

Plus the Fivre 6n7g brown base.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Or maybe start with one 6sn7 and a pair of 6080 and work my way up.



Honestly, that's not a bad idea!  At least for short listening times and until your sure that the amp is burned in properly.  But that would mean you have to wait... and then... WAIT SOME MORE for the *best tubes*! And with your stock pile, we're not talking months/ days or years... we're talking light-years! ahhhhhhh


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> You got my attention. Let's hope it's quiet. Why just NU. I thought the TS 6F8G is the one - I mean as good as the TS 6sn7gt black glass round plates.



While the TS 6F8G sounds essentially the same as the TS 6SN7GT, the NU 6F8G, with round plates, sounds different than either the gray-glass or the black-glass NU 6SN7GT. And personally I enjoy the NU 6F8G the most.

Also, I don't notice any difference between the two versions of the TS 6F8G, round plates and rectangular plates, and the 6SN7GT with round plates. Moreover, I also have a TS 6SN7GT with the older rectangular plates, and I don't notice any significant difference between these four tubes. But then, my ears are old and worn out so you probably should not believe me. lol


----------



## whirlwind

The Tung Sol 6SN7GT black glass round plate sounds the same to me as the Tung Sol 6F8G black glass round plate, and I like the sound a lot.  I do not own anything other than round plates.
If the rectangular plates sound the same, one could save a lot of cash.


----------



## UntilThen

1st lot of tubes have arrived. The Lafayette 6F8G looks better than new. I'm impressed. Don't really care if it doesn't have round plates.  The ECC31 is also gleaming.




Next up, the Brimar 13D1 from Langrex. These looks new and the brown base looks vintage.


----------



## UntilThen

These nukes are ready to roll. I've never use 4 x 5998 before. I believe it will have tsunami effects. If you get any tremors, you will know why.


----------



## leftside

ECC31 + 5998 is one of my favorite combos in my other amp


----------



## UntilThen

I was waiting for Stravos to get back to me on a good 6F8G from his priced collection. Get back to me he did, only to point me to a pair of Tungsol rebranded 6F8G at an incredible price, from a seller in Australia. What a guy Stravos. 

So I bought this NOS NIB 6F8G and there's no mistaking that it has round plates.   Oh it's a pair.

With the purchase of this Art Garfunkel's tubes, I'll call a halt less I go crazy with tubes before the OTL arrives.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> ECC31 + 5998 is one of my favorite combos in my other amp



Superb gear choice from your profile Leftside. I gather your other amp must be the WA22. I did like the WA22 when I was auditioning Ragnarok, Violectric v281 and WA22. 

Even ecc31 and a pair of 5998 in Elise sounded very good. So I'm looking forward to firing up the cylinders with ecc31 and 4 x 5998 in GOTL.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Superb gear choice from your profile Leftside. I gather your other amp must be the WA22. I did like the WA22 when I was auditioning Ragnarok, Violectric v281 and WA22.
> 
> Even ecc31 and a pair of 5998 in Elise sounded very good. So I'm looking forward to firing up the cylinders with ecc31 and 4 x 5998 in GOTL.


Hi UT,

6 cylinders? Nothing like a V8....






or  (caution: this picture was banned from a certain thread in the past)






If you look carefully, you will see 6xEL3N + 2x6BL7 - should be possible with the Glenn OTL.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> I was waiting for Stravos to get back to me on a good 6F8G from his priced collection. Get back to me he did, only to point me to a pair of Tungsol rebranded 6F8G at an incredible price, from a seller in Australia. What a guy Stravos.
> 
> So I bought this NOS NIB 6F8G and there's no mistaking that it has round plates.   Oh it's a pair.
> 
> With the purchase of this Art Garfunkel's tubes, I'll call a halt less I go crazy with tubes before the OTL arrives.



Matt I'm here to help, I knew what you were looking for, my own TS 6F8G cost me a lot more, it was a good sale not to be missed.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> 6 cylinders? Nothing like a V8....
> 
> ...



Not P0ssible the EL3N will not work in the OTL  it is a single tube when the 6BL7 is a dual triode.
My OTL needs dual tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> If you look carefully, you will see 6xEL3N + 2x6BL7 - should be possible with the Glenn OTL.



Hi Mordy, I'm here to roll only official, recommended tubes.  However the choice is so vast, it's mind bogging.


----------



## MIKELAP

leftside said:


> ECC31 + 5998 is one of my favorite combos in my other amp


Thats what i use mostly on the WA22 along with a 596 rectifier


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Honestly, that's not a bad idea!  At least for short listening times and until your sure that the amp is burned in properly.  But that would mean you have to wait... and then... WAIT SOME MORE for the *best tubes*! And with your stock pile, we're not talking months/ days or years... we're talking light-years! ahhhhhhh



My midrange drivers for the tower speakers came home last night and John Reilly, the designer of the Axis speakers brand, was at my place to solder the drivers back in place again. When he fired it up, I was listening with mouth agape. Now with better source and a powerful amp, the speakers really sing. Playing Led Zeppelin 4, Stairway To Heaven, I was moved .... upwards to heaven. 

Now where to find time to roll all those tubes, I don't know. Headphones will have to compete with speakers now I'm afraid. Let's see if the arrival of GOTL will change the equation.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Matt I'm here to help, I knew what you were looking for, my own TS 6F8G cost me a lot more, it was a good sale not to be missed.



Again my thanks and appreciation. I've met many people who have helped me in many ways along my audio journey and you're one of them.


----------



## whirlwind

MIKELAP said:


> Thats what i use mostly on the WA22 along with a 596 rectifier



I like the 596 rectifier in my GEL3N amp....never heard it with 5998 and ECC31, but I am guessing that should sound quite stunning


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I like the 596 rectifier in my GEL3N amp....never heard it with 5998 and ECC31, but I am guessing that should sound quite stunning



I often use the 596 and ECC31 with 6BX7 and it too is stunning.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I often use the 596 and ECC31 with 6BX7 and it too is stunning.



I imagine it is.
6BL7& 6BX7   sound great, and the price can't be beat.
I like the lower gain and the tone of the 6BX7 just a tad better than 6BL7....never heard the with the 596 rectifier though


----------



## UntilThen

Guys don't get me too excited with all these good sounding combos. The tubes are starting to arrive and I've run out of drawer space. Got to find some big boxes now.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Guys don't get me too excited with all these good sounding combos. The tubes are starting to arrive and I've run out of drawer space. Got to find some big boxes now.




You are going to need some big plastic tubs from Big Lots


----------



## UntilThen

Problem with big tubs is you have to dig to the bottom to find that 6sn7w with the metallic base. Gezus, that tube cost me an arm and a leg. I must have a glass too many when I press the 'buy' button.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 10, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Problem with big tubs is you have to dig to the bottom to find that 6sn7w with the metallic base. Gezus, that tube cost me an arm and a leg. I must have a glass too many when I press the 'buy' button.




Ha, yeah, you want to keep that tube at the top of the tube tub,lol

Yeah, one must be careful buying real expensive tubes...could be headphone rolling instead!


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> I like the 596 rectifier in my GEL3N amp....never heard it with 5998 and ECC31, but I am guessing that should sound quite stunning


So what is your favorite rectifier tube (at the moment) on the GEL3N with the hd800?  And also your favorite with your planar hp?


----------



## ru4music

gibosi said:


> I often use the 596 and ECC31 with 6BX7 and it too is stunning.


Thanks everyone, you just forced me (LOL) to roll back in my 6sn7s/ 6BL7s combo for a listen!


----------



## MIKELAP

gibosi said:


> I often use the 596 and ECC31 with 6BX7 and it too is stunning.


The only difference in mine is that i am using the 6BL7 but i should try the 6BX7 i have a pair of RCA  which ones by the way  do you prefer in your amp ?


----------



## gibosi

MIKELAP said:


> The only difference in mine is that i am using the 6BL7 but i should try the 6BX7 i have a pair of RCA  which ones by the way  do you prefer in your amp ?



I have yet to try RCA 6BX7, but I have spent quite a bit of time with GE, Sylvania and Tung-Sol. And of these, I like the Tung-Sol the best.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 11, 2017)

ru4music said:


> So what is your favorite rectifier tube (at the moment) on the GEL3N with the hd800?  And also your favorite with your planar hp?



Most of my listening has been with my planar headphone with the GEL3N amp so I will just comment on that for now, also mostly just using four tube mode with my planar cans....I need to listen to more rectifiers with HD800, only have listened to 3DG4 for the most part and it is very good.

With the planars I would rank my favs so far
1.  GEC U18/20....4V needs adapter
2.  NU 596....needs adapter, Glenn's are by far the best
3.  Loewe Radio AZ12  Mesh Plate....4V needs adapter
4.  3DG4

My favorite is probably GEC U18/20...it says Phillips on the tube, but it is indeed a GEC tube...all kudos go to gibosi for this  as he is the man  and I can't thank him enough  










Without a doubt the 3DG4 is the best bang for the buck, and the differences are not what I would call huge.

I have a 5CU4 in the amp now , which is also good. Mainly I have been using 3DG4 and the cost is a staggering $4 - $5     

You should be very happy with your amp.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice tubes for sure!
I agree the 3DG4 is one of my favourites.
BTW the 596 is UE not NU from what I can tell from my own tubes.


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> Most of my listening has been with my planar headphone with the GEL3N amp so I will just comment on that for now, also mostly just using four tube mode with my planar cans....I need to listen to more rectifiers with HD800, only have listened to 3DG4 for the most part and it is very good.
> 
> With the planars I would rank my favs so far
> 1.  GEC U18/20....4V needs adapter
> ...



Looks like some planar hp(s) are in my future!


----------



## ru4music

rosgr63 said:


> Very nice tubes for sure!
> I agree the 3DG4 is one of my favourites.
> BTW the 596 is UE not NU from what I can tell from my own tubes.



I believe Glenn is supplying me with a 3DG4 with my amp.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 11, 2017)

rosgr63 said:


> Very nice tubes for sure!
> I agree the 3DG4 is one of my favourites.
> BTW the 596 is UE not NU from what I can tell from my own tubes.




My bad, you are correct Starvos it is a United Electric


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 11, 2017)

ru4music said:


> Looks like some planar hp(s) are in my future!



The HD800 will also sound great with this amp....my guess is this amp will power anything but the HE-6.

Some may say that you need more watts for some headphones, but I am not sure I believe it...if so one must be listening awfully loud with their headphones.

In two tube mode with nothing in the signal path, I can max out the volume pot, it is pretty loud, but not overly loud, and zero distortion and a back round dark as midnight....would not want to try that in four tube mode, it will blow your ear drums out.


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> The HD800 will also sound great with this amp....my guess is this amp will power anything but the HE-6.
> 
> Some may say that you need more watts for some headphones, but I am not sure I believe it...if so one must be listening awfully loud with their headphones.
> 
> In two tube mode with nothing in the signal path, I can max out the volume pot, it is pretty loud, but not overly loud, and zero distortion and a back round dark as midnight....would not want to try that in four tube mode, it will blow your ear drums out.



Yes!  My thoughts were/ are that planar hp(s) would compliment my hd800/ T-1/ hd650 hp(s) nicely with the GEL3N.


----------



## rnros

rnros said:


> Don't think I will purchase from Langrex again, always thought they were a solid operation. Oh well, things change.
> Still waiting after 5 weeks for an email response on a problem with my last order. LOL Who needs that kind of service?!



To be fair to Langrex, following my statement of disappointment last week, I have received an email of apology and resolution.
Good to see it was only a temporary problem and that their commitment to a high service standard remains intact.


----------



## UntilThen

I have always held Langrex in high regards. James himself replied to my queries about the 13D1 tubes.

I have since bought lots of tubes from them with no problems at all.

Glad you have your problems resolved mros.


----------



## lukeap69

Langrex is fine IME. I have purchased 2 pairs of 6BX7's from them before.


----------



## UntilThen

And the tubes started arriving. When I saw the 6336b, I exclaimed holysheet. 

Move aside Bendix 6080wb. These Cetron 6336b dwarfed the Bendix 6080wb. These looks the real deal.


----------



## rnros

@UntilThen @lukeap69  Yes, same as my prior experience, that's why I thought it odd.
Really, if you can't trust Langrex, who can you trust?  : )


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> And the tubes started arriving. When I saw the 6336b, I exclaimed holysheet.
> 
> Move aside Bendix 6080wb. These Cetron 6336b dwarfed the Bendix 6080wb. These looks the real deal.



They are the real deal... 
Have about 70 hours on my pair, and this new GOTL only has about 200 hours, if that's any indication.
A little more time and patience required for warmup, early on you will hear the tink-tink of thermal expansion a bit longer,
but after 40-50 hours they settle in, and they are as quiet as any tube I (never) heard.

And yes, the new GOTL continues to amaze. Thank you, Glenn.


----------



## lukeap69

I have finally found time to roll my TS 7236 pair (purchased them months ago). Coming from GEC 6AS7, I expected to be disappointed with the TS 7236, but I am wrong. The TS 7236 sound very good. I don't remember my Sylvania 7236 to sound this good. I will roll the Sylvania's after a week to compare. Perhaps my ears are playing tricks on me today.


----------



## attmci

lukeap69 said:


> I have finally found time to roll my TS 7236 pair (purchased them months ago). Coming from GEC 6AS7, I expected to be disappointed with the TS 7236, but I am wrong. The TS 7236 sound very good. I don't remember my Sylvania 7236 to sound this good. I will roll the Sylvania's after a week to compare. Perhaps my ears are playing tricks on me today.


yup, a guy found over 100 pieces  from a bankruptcy which drives it price down a lot in the past couple of months.


----------



## lukeap69

attmci said:


> yup, a guy found over 100 pieces  from a bankruptcy which drives it price down a lot in the past couple of months.


Good for us, isn't it?


----------



## jekjek

attmci said:


> yup, a guy found over 100 pieces  from a bankruptcy which drives it price down a lot in the past couple of months.



Any link where i can get this?


----------



## ru4music

jekjek said:


> Any link where i can get this?



http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-TUN...277128?hash=item48a2945bc8:g:reAAAOSwXQZZdRTD


----------



## jekjek

ru4music said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-TUN...277128?hash=item48a2945bc8:g:reAAAOSwXQZZdRTD


 Thanks bro
No wonder i am not able to find it because it ship to US only


----------



## lukeap69

I bought mine 3 months ago 40USD a pair. Guess I got lucky.


----------



## ru4music

lukeap69 said:


> I bought mine 3 months ago 40USD a pair. Guess I got lucky.



I'm pretty sure a person could "make an offer" for $20 to $25 ea. and purchase from the link above.  $40/ pr. is a very good price for that tube!


----------



## lukeap69

ru4music said:


> I'm pretty sure a person could "make an offer" for $20 to $25 ea. and purchase from the link above.  $40/ pr. is a very good price for that tube!



I'm surprised @UntilThen has not bought them all.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 12, 2017)

I would have bought them all but I think the seller won't post to Australia.  I'm writing to him now.

In other news, I sold off my Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP last night at the price I bought. I'm going for the Redgum RGi120ENR black series. My tower speakers are finally ready.

Selling off the Primaluna means less tubes in my life.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> I bought mine 3 months ago 40USD a pair. Guess I got lucky.




Great price Arnold...good snag.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Great price Arnold...good snag.


Thanks Joe. And they sound great too.


----------



## attmci (Oct 14, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I would have bought them all but I think the seller won't post to Australia.  I'm writing to him now.
> 
> In other news, I sold off my Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP last night at the price I bought. I'm going for the Redgum RGi120ENR black series. My tower speakers are finally ready.
> 
> Selling off the Primaluna means less tubes in my life.


deleted. Not relate to this thread.


----------



## Rossliew

attmci said:


> I will buy a SX-1980 if I have extremely good speakers......
> 
> http://www.kallhovde.com/pioneer/sx-1980-b.pdf



Yes, the SX-1980 trumps all others...and it drives the HE-6 without breaking a sweat


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> I would have bought them all but I think the seller won't post to Australia.  I'm writing to him now.
> 
> In other news, I sold off my Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP last night at the price I bought. I'm going for the Redgum RGi120ENR black series. My tower speakers are finally ready.
> 
> Selling off the Primaluna means less tubes in my life.



Very, very surprised you sold off the PL considering how you'd gushed about it like a kid in a candy store  Less tubes = less spending = less hassle


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Very, very surprised you sold off the PL considering how you'd gushed about it like a kid in a candy store  Less tubes = less spending = less hassle



That's how it is with HiFi. You hear an amp and you love it a lot. Then you get the chance to listen to another and you're blown away. Just don't listen to too many or you'll go broke. 

Here's Redgum being featured at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. https://www.stereo.net.au/news/a-little-slice-of-downunder-at-rocky-mountain-audio-fest

It's all about system synergy. Redgum RGi120ENR is making my speakers sing like they are meant to.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I will buy a SX-1980 if I have extremely good speakers......
> 
> http://www.kallhovde.com/pioneer/sx-1980-b.pdf



When I win Lotto, I'll start following your recommendations. Do they still make this receiver? The Japanese have some really good stuff.


----------



## UntilThen

Telefunken C3G/s arrived before the Siemens C3G and I ordered the Siemens a week before ..... 

I reckon Telefunkens are faster tubes. They look beautiful. The boxes are worth a mint.


----------



## UntilThen

Seriously why is this guy private messaging me to buy his gear when I don't even know him? Isn't there a rule that you don't go soliciting sales via the messaging system here on Head-Fi?



I'll sell you the best portable tube amp in the world, the ALO CDM for about 1/2 off. The retail is $1500, I'll let you have it for $825. It's in great condition. I am selling it to fund a Hugo2 and I have to do it quick before I lose the offer on the Hugo2, hence the price.

https://www.aloaudio.com/shop/continental-dual-mono/

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pri...ack-excellent-condition.861281/#post-13770013

Ike


----------



## UntilThen

Alright, I send off Euforia to it's next owner yesterday. Said my last goodbye... 

Now I am only left with these 2 steel boxes. Poor me. Primaluna and Euforia gone on the same day. I'm feeling a shortage of tube amps in my life at the moment.... but lots of tubes...


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> When I win Lotto, I'll start following your recommendations. Do they still make this receiver? The Japanese have some really good stuff.[/QU
> No, you have to buy a used one. But they beat most of the new expensive amps according to the reviews.


----------



## UntilThen

You reckon the Pioneer is better than this Luxman? I almost bought this class A 25watts Luxman. I've heard it drive the big white speakers and it did more Mt Everest by a few inches...

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/luxman/luxman.html

Just look at those sexy meters.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Alright, I send off Euforia to it's next owner yesterday. Said my last goodbye...
> 
> Now I am only left with these 2 steel boxes. Poor me. Primaluna and Euforia gone on the same day. I'm feeling a shortage of tube amps in my life at the moment.... but lots of tubes...



I was hoping you can do a comparison between Euforia and Glenn's OTL.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 13, 2017)

lukeap69 said:


> I was hoping you can do a comparison between Euforia and Glenn's OTL.



Believe me Arnold, I know Elise and Euforia's sound so well that even if I try to forget it, it will still linger in my brain. No one has spend more time with these amps than me. The hours I chalk on these amps is staggering. Likewise the number of tubes that I've rolled on them. Comparison with Glenn's OTL is what I'll do and it will not be on a figment of my imagination.

I'll also bring in the La Figaro 339 for the comparison and this I can do in real time. I'll just take the LF339 from my son for 2 weeks.


----------



## UntilThen

@lukeap69  we have quite a few items in common. HD800, HD650, Ragnarok and eventually Glenn's OTL.

I much prefer using Rag over Euforia. If I had to live with just one amp, I would be quite happy living with just Rag for headphones. Hence my comparison would really be with Glenn's OTL and Ragnarok. The combination of Yggdrasil and Ragnarok is formidable. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea but it's my coffee. 

I go into GOTL with great expectations because my new found friend Stravos told me it's as good as any of his amps. When he told me what amps he has, my eyes almost pop out. Amongst his many amps, there is the EC Balancing Act - wouldn't mind listening to this.


----------



## attmci (Oct 14, 2017)

deleted.


----------



## attmci (Oct 14, 2017)

deleted.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Believe me Arnold, I know Elise and Euforia's sound so well that even if I try to forget it, it will still linger in my brain. No one has spend more time with these amps than me. The hours I chalk on these amps is staggering. Likewise the number of tubes that I've rolled on them. Comparison with Glenn's OTL is what I'll do and it will not be on a figment of my imagination.
> 
> I'll also bring in the La Figaro 339 for the comparison and this I can do in real time. I'll just take the LF339 from my son for 2 weeks.



That's excellent Matt. I have always been curious about Elise/Euforia and Glenn's OTL comparison. I almost bought one Elise had Feliks agreed to remove the VAT . I would be patiently waiting for your epic comparison. Cheers.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> @lukeap69  we have quite a few items in common. HD800, HD650, Ragnarok and eventually Glenn's OTL.
> 
> I much prefer using Rag over Euforia. If I had to live with just one amp, I would be quite happy living with just Rag for headphones. Hence my comparison would really be with Glenn's OTL and Ragnarok. The combination of Yggdrasil and Ragnarok is formidable. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea but it's my coffee.
> 
> I go into GOTL with great expectations because my new found friend Stravos told me it's as good as any of his amps. When he told me what amps he has, my eyes almost pop out. Amongst his many amps, there is the EC Balancing Act - wouldn't mind listening to this.



High praise you have for the Rok there. I have been using mine for quite some time before I got my Darna (my Glenn's OTL amp name in case you've missed it). I like the Rok a lot and I have yet to plug a pair of headphones that didn't sound good with the Rok IMO. However, my Darna is miles ahead IMHO when powering HD800 and HD650. YMMV.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> However, my Darna is miles ahead IMHO when powering HD800 and HD650. YMMV.



Yay ! That's what I like to hear. 

All these tubes are in preparation for Glenn's OTL amp. Name to be decided.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> You reckon the Pioneer is better than this Luxman? I almost bought this class A 25watts Luxman. I've heard it drive the big white speakers and it did more Mt Everest by a few inches...
> 
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/luxman/luxman.html
> 
> Just look at those sexy meters.



How much does this Luxman cost? The pioneer may be old but it's grunt is unarguable. And reconditioned ones should cost a pretty penny too


----------



## UntilThen

Could have gotten a used Luxman for $3500 in great condition but it doesn't matter now. I am getting a new Redgum RGi120ENR black series.

The designer of my speakers was in my lounge listening to the Redgum and Axis LS88. This was his recommendation and it sounded simply awesome. The highs are not piercing. The mids are fleshed out. The bottom end kicks ass. My stereo system is sorted now.

... and I am nearly done with my headphone system too.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hi all
I am back on been off the thread for a week or so.
Had a blood vessel burst in my left arm causing it to turn purple and swell up like a balloon.
Very painful getting better now so I can get back to building amps today. This set me back a week.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Hi all
> I am back on been off the thread for a week or so.
> Had a blood vessel burst in my left arm causing it to turn purple and swell up like a balloon.
> Very painful getting better now so I can get back to building amps today. This set me back a week.



Sorry to hear that Glenn.

Glad that you are feeling better.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 14, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Incredible. I've been reading the thread... right from when Stavros got his GR Super 10. Till when you unveil the GEL3N. It's very clear you love the GEL3N.
> 
> I haven't even gotten the GOTL and I'm already thinking of the GEL3N. How could I not love EL3N. I still remember that fateful day when I spotted it on eBay whilst looking for 6N7G.
> 
> ...


Yup, definitely something special about the performance of those EL3N's - though a bit warm / soft sounding on the Feliks Audio amps, that soundstage and realism is something to write home about. Must sound quite special on a properly configured amp... and UT maybe you can also give them a whirl with your incoming Glenn amp if you still have the adapters.

Anyway I'm just on occasional lurker of this thread, and honestly don't have time at my disposal to be active around here... just giving a little shout out to UntilThen... Hey I'm looking forward to your impressions on your upcoming Glenn amp, especially since we share much of the same knowledge and experiences in the game. Especially to hear your take on it compared to your PrimaLuna amp - also how it compares to the Euforia amp. Granted this would be a bit unfair and by-memory, but just for comparison sake anyway. So please be sure to mention me on anything major, so I can see your post even if I don't come around here often. Peace out!


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Yay ! That's what I like to hear.
> 
> All these tubes are in preparation for Glenn's OTL amp. Name to be decided.



 Matt, I am not sure how it will compare to the FA amps, but I can't imagine that you  will not love this amp. 

By the way, I would love to have your Atticus in my hand so I could give it a long session!


----------



## Neogeo333

That's a bummer.  Get well soon Glenn.


----------



## rnros

Hi Glenn, Welcome back. 
Yeow... That does sound painful!
Take your time, heal well. Hell, a week is not a setback.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Hi all
> I am back on been off the thread for a week or so.
> Had a blood vessel burst in my left arm causing it to turn purple and swell up like a balloon.
> Very painful getting better now so I can get back to building amps today. This set me back a week.



Welcome back!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Hi all
> I am back on been off the thread for a week or so.
> Had a blood vessel burst in my left arm causing it to turn purple and swell up like a balloon.
> Very painful getting better now so I can get back to building amps today. This set me back a week.



Hello Glenn, I am in Canberra with friends on a one night stay when I read this.

First of all, don't even worry about this setting back the amps for a week.... oh well it's @ru4music fault... it was his amp you were working on that caused the seriously bad bruised.... 

Get well soon. Don't worry about the amps. I still have those 2 steel boxes remember.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Hi all
> I am back on been off the thread for a week or so.
> Had a blood vessel burst in my left arm causing it to turn purple and swell up like a balloon.
> Very painful getting better now so I can get back to building amps today. This set me back a week.




Whoa..hope nothing serious caused that blood vessel to burst..get well soon, Glenn!


----------



## UntilThen

Hey @DecentLevi nice of you to pop in. We don't charge admission fees here. 

I will be famous soon with that soon to be 'by memory' comparions. Don't worry my memory is still good.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Matt, I am not sure how it will compare to the FA amps, but I can't imagine that you  will not love this amp.
> 
> By the way, I would love to have your Atticus in my hand so I could give it a long session!



Joe you can have my Atticus anytime. Just pack your bags and move here. Tell your family you won't be home soon.


----------



## rosgr63

George I would like to see more of your nice food photos to cheer me up please


----------



## rosgr63

Joe make a quick stop here on your way down under.......


----------



## lukeap69

rosgr63 said:


> Joe make a quick stop here on your way down under.......


Joe can make a stop here from Greece before going down under. Remember the beer I offered you before Joe?


----------



## UntilThen

Oh wow Joe, looks like you will be away from home for a long time. Just don't get too side track in Greece and Dubai. Remember your ultimate destination is downunder.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Hello Glenn, I am in Canberra with friends on a one night stay when I read this.
> 
> First of all, don't even worry about this setting back the amps for a week.... oh well it's @ru4music fault... it was his amp you were working on that caused the seriously bad bruised....
> 
> Get well soon. Don't worry about the amps. I still have those 2 steel boxes remember.



LOL!  That just shows you the "power" that goes into building a Glenn amp, only a true master builder could survive this process.  Never... never remove the screws and peek inside without proper training, a #14 welders mask, and kevlar protection!


----------



## rosgr63

It took Ulysses time to get home........


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> George I would like to see more of your nice food photos to cheer me up please



Don't tease me. It's 3am here and I am in a motel with no food in sight.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Don't tease me. It's 3am here and I am in a motel with no food in sight.



No food ?
Like flying into Germany on a Sunday


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 14, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Joe you can have my Atticus anytime. Just pack your bags and move here. Tell your family you won't be home soon.


I am really excited to hear this headphone!
Ha...."Honey, I am heading out for a couple of weeks"  "Gonna go hear some headphones"    



rosgr63 said:


> Joe make a quick stop here on your way down under.......


My wife and I would love to visit Greece one day....not sure we will ever be able to make it happen....but we still have hope!



lukeap69 said:


> Joe can make a stop here from Greece before going down under. Remember the beer I offered you before Joe?



Yes sir!  I certainly do remember, and I wish I could meet some of you guys, and we are worlds apart, but still share the common love of music.
Would love to sit and chat with you guys and drink a couple of porters.

All of the talk about the 596 rectifier had me itching to hear it , so I rolled it in this morning.
It is mind boggling that a few years back you could get these for & 8 each, as long as you bought 8 tubes, so $64 for 8 tubes...what a deal!  I missed out on this party!
It is a wonderful rectifier and it merits all the accolades that it gets.
It looks a tad weird, but the sound is wonderful.




Been listening to stuff like this all day, been a great Saturday.




Got to love small clubs like this one.


New Incoming rectifier....a deal i could not resist, even though I tried.
A deal for the Telefunked AZ12  4 Volt , and I caved.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> It took Ulysses time to get home........



Hehehe I have to look up Ulysses. It is the Roman name of the Greek hero Odysseus and my log on name on the Aussie Audio forum is Odyssey.

The *Odyssey* is Homer's epic of Odysseus' 10-year struggle to return home after the Trojan War. While Odysseus battles mystical creatures and faces the wrath of the gods, his wife Penelope and his son Telemachus stave off suitors vying for Penelope's hand and Ithaca's throne long enough for Odysseus to return.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> No food ?
> Like flying into Germany on a Sunday



Yeah no one is awake selling food at 3am.

It's almost 7am now so it's time for a hearty breakfast.


----------



## UntilThen

Joe your EL3N amp looks great especially with that giant rectifier. You are tempting me....


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Joe your EL3N amp looks great especially with that giant rectifier. You are tempting me....




Holy crap, you are a guy that does not need any tempting  ....Hell you are going to be busy with your OTL and tubes, trust me....and Eikon & Atticus......and HD800 & HD650...all going to sound wonderful and the amp is very transparent to tube rolling.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Joe your EL3N amp looks great especially with that giant rectifier. You are tempting me....



I think you should... in fact, I triple-dog-dare you!   Now you can blame that on me as well (oh, and @whirlwind)! 

BTW, I think you should name your new speaker amp "gumdrop" after REDGUM Audio!


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> All of the talk about the 596 rectifier had me itching to hear it , so I rolled it in this morning.
> It is mind boggling that a few years back you could get these for & 8 each, as long as you bought 8 tubes, so $64 for 8 tubes...what a deal!  I missed out on this party!
> It is a wonderful rectifier and it merits all the accolades that it gets.
> It looks a tad weird, but the sound is wonderful.
> ...



Your not making the wait any easier for me either!   I have four "mighty" 596ers waiting in the wings...


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> I think you should... in fact, I triple-dog-dare you!   Now you can blame that on me as well (oh, and @whirlwind)!
> 
> BTW, I think you should name your new speaker amp "gumdrop" after REDGUM Audio!



I shall be patient and listen to GOTL first ....

Btw Stavros just named my GOTL !!!

It shall henceforth be call Ulysses.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> I shall be patient and listen to GOTL first ....
> 
> Btw Stavros just named my GOTL !!!
> 
> It shall henceforth be call Ulysses.




Perfect!


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> I shall be patient and listen to GOTL first ....
> 
> Btw Stavros just named my GOTL !!!
> 
> It shall henceforth be call Ulysses.



Fantastic name Matt! I like it.

Ulysses : The search for Atticus...


----------



## DecentLevi

@UntilThen I've been trying to piece together a mystery - so your Ulysses amp also works with 6SN7 tubes, via the SN7 sockets and using 6 / 12 / 25 volt switch, right? But 6SN7's on that amp are only recommended for hi-Z headphones, say 300 ohm +?


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> @UntilThen I've been trying to piece together a mystery - so your Ulysses amp also works with 6SN7 tubes, via the SN7 sockets and using 6 / 12 / 25 volt switch, right? But 6SN7's on that amp are only recommended for hi-Z headphones, say 300 ohm +?



No. 6sn7, 12sn7, 25sn7 are single drivers that can be used for any headphones.

It's the power tubes such as 2 x 6336 that are ideally suited for low z headphones such as planar magnetics.

That said, I believe even 6x6bl7 or 4x6as7 will drive planar magnetics with equal control.

I will experience it myself when I get it. That said I dont think LCD-2f is difficult to drive. Even Euforia drives it well.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 15, 2017)

For my Ulysses, I have these as driver options.

2 x C3g

Single
6sn7, 12sn7, 25sn7
ECC31
FDD20
6N7G
6A6
7n7
6n23p
13D1
B35, B36
1631

As you can see, the choice for drivers is very wide.

For power tubes, these are the options:-

6 x 6bl7 / 6bx7
4 x 6as7 / 6080
2 x 6as7 / 6080
2 x 6336

You can see that the options for drivers and power tubes combinations are quite staggering.

It will be a tube rollers dream.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> I shall be patient and listen to GOTL first ....
> 
> Btw Stavros just named my GOTL !!!
> 
> It shall henceforth be call Ulysses.



Near my home village at the island of Chios we have the Teacher's Stone where Homer used to recite the stories about Troy and Ulysses.

Joe now you are talking, please tell the Mrs I'll be good as gold when you come over, I won't even speak about audio!!!!!!!!


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 15, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> No. 6sn7, 12sn7, 25sn7 are single drivers that can be used for any headphones.
> 
> It's the power tubes such as 2 x 6336 that are ideally suited for low z headphones such as planar magnetics.
> 
> ...



It will sou


UntilThen said:


> No. 6sn7, 12sn7, 25sn7 are single drivers that can be used for any headphones.
> 
> It's the power tubes such as 2 x 6336 that are ideally suited for low z headphones such as planar magnetics.
> 
> ...



You will driving it well, no problem with all those tube combos.
Arnold may have tried some of those combos you mentioned......the C3g's are nice drivers with the planars

HD800 sound great with just two 6BX7's


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Near my home village at the island of Chios we have the Teacher's Stone where Homer used to recite the stories about Troy and Ulysses.
> 
> Joe now you are talking, please tell the Mrs I'll be good as gold when you come over, I won't even speak about audio!!!!!!!!



Just looking at Greek food makes my mouth water.
Ha, you would not need to say anything, I am sure I could get plenty of visuals!


----------



## rosgr63

Joe you definitely get into trouble when you are with me, Glenn knows..........


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 15, 2017)

rosgr63 said:


> Joe you definitely get into trouble when you are with me, Glenn knows..........



I know he always shows up back home , heavier then when he left too.

I think it is wonderful that they make the trip once a year to see you guys, that is indeed something special.

So Glenn get's away to Greece, but Starvo's gets Glenn in trouble as Lucy is unable to control him, LOL!

All signs of blame point to 'Starvos".....my story and I am sticking to it!


ru4music....Four 596 rectifiers, you are set for life.

Speaking of the LCD 2...anybody see this
https://www.audeze.com/products/lcd-collection/lcd2-classic

Great price, would like to try one if the sound is on the darker side


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Speaking of the LCD 2...anybody see this
> https://www.audeze.com/products/lcd-collection/lcd2-classic
> 
> Great price, would like to try one if the sound is on the darker side



I've seen this recently. Seems like Audeze is caving to popular demand for a return to the original LCD2 sound. Might be worth checking it out but I have enough headphones to last a very long time.


----------



## whirlwind

It is nice to see a new headphone offered in this price area....everything has went sky high so this could fit in many peoples budget and if it has the sound of the classic that many people miss.
Could be a great bang for the buck....have to wait and see what people think that purchase it...if it is lighter than original, then that in itself would be a good upgrade.


----------



## UntilThen

I still have 5 of these FDD20s.


----------



## whirlwind

Nice.
You will be able to use those.  I have never tried them.
I know gibosi has.


----------



## gibosi

I really like the FDD20 which appears to be a 12-volt version of the 6N7G and ECC31. It was manufactured in a Philips' factory located in Milano, Italy, during WWII. However, with the onset of the war, I am quite sure that Philips had lost control of that factory, as was the case all across Europe.


----------



## UntilThen

I like the blue colour.  I also like how a pair of FDD20s with 5998 sounded on Elise but after a while I dislike using the external laptop power supply. There's just too much work. Glad I kept the tubes because now with Ulysses, it will be just plug and play with an adapter.

In fact, there will be a lot I'd like about Ulysses. C3Gs will just slot into the sockets without the need for adapters. The biggest benefit is that I will need only one *SN7. Buying in pairs has been a big expense, especially when buying NOS.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I really like the FDD20 which appears to be a 12-volt version of the 6N7G and ECC31. It was manufactured in a Philips' factory located in Milano, Italy, during WWII. However, with the onset of the war, I am quite sure that Philips had lost control of that factory, as was the case all across Europe.


Hi UT and Gibosi,

Was looking at that pair of TFK C3g tubes - are you sure that they weren't made by Siemens? I seem to remember that Lorenz made their own C3g tubes, but I don't know if there were other manufacturers.


----------



## UntilThen

This NOS NIB Gec B36 from Stavros is another plug and play tube without the need for adapters. This is as new as the pair of Gec 6as7g I got from you Stavros. I've not heard a GEC driver before. Wonder how it sounds.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT and Gibosi,
> 
> Was looking at that pair of TFK C3g tubes - are you sure that they weren't made by Siemens? I seem to remember that Lorenz made their own C3g tubes, but I don't know if there were other manufacturers.



Hey Mordy, do drop in more. It's probably Siemens made but it didn't matter. I'm just collecting all the nice boxes.  I doubt I will hear a difference between the Telefunkens and Siemens C3G but I will know in due time.


----------



## UntilThen

Finally got all 3 Marconis together. The one on the left is from another private seller who's so happy I bought his tube. I don't think many people are buying B36, so it's been sitting on ebay for a while. Now the 2 on the right are from Stavros. As you can see, the 2 Marconis on the left and right are identical but it's the one in the middle I'm excited about ... well I'm excited about the nice Marconi box too which is in excellent condition. I've become a box collector.


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Matt, I'm pleased they got home in good time.
The GEC tube is beautiful.
I hope they sound good for you.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Near my home village at the island of Chios we have the Teacher's Stone where Homer used to recite the stories about Troy and Ulysses.



All I want to know is whether Helen is beautiful.  She has to be. The Trojan war started because of her.


----------



## UntilThen

And the tubes start arriving.... Sylvania 2 x 6BL7GTA and 4 x 6BL7GT. All NOS nib tubes. Pins are as shining as the sun. Are these the flat plates or no?


----------



## UntilThen

It's Sylvania's day. The 6SN7W arrived too. Use a wet cloth to give it a once over and Deoxit the pins and it's looking like it's just came out from the manufacturing plant.


----------



## UntilThen

These are the GTs. It's missing the A.  Really loving all the different boxes.


----------



## UntilThen

And my desk starts to clutter with tubes and headphones !!! I need to go back to a simpler life. One tube and one headphone.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> And the tubes start arriving.... Sylvania 2 x 6BL7GTA and 4 x 6BL7GT. All NOS nib tubes. Pins are as shining as the sun. Are these the flat plates or no?


That would be a no.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> That would be a no.



Dang now I have to remove the glass and flatten the plates.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright now for another question. My 6sn7w says 6sn7w on the metallic base but the print on the top of chrome tube says 6sn7a. So is this a 6sn7w?


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Dang now I have to remove the glass and flatten the plates.



The flat plate 6BL7 Sylvania tubes will look like this


----------



## leftside

There are a lot of constructional variances with this tube type. I have loads of them. I documented a few of the differences in this thread.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6bl7-tube-users.806043/


----------



## leftside

On a separate subject, I purchased a set of HE-6 headphones at the weekend. I'll report how they sound with the Glenn 300B when the headphones arrive.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> On a separate subject, I purchased a set of HE-6 headphones at the weekend. I'll report how they sound with the Glenn 300B when the headphones arrive.



Ummm I'd love a mint HE6 to be driven by Ragnarok or Redgum.

Incidentally Redgum will be at my home tonight.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Ummm I'd love a mint HE6 to be driven by Ragnarok or Redgum.
> 
> Incidentally Redgum will be at my home tonight.


I have auditioned a modded HE-6 with Rok and a tube speaker amp (can't remember the name), whilst it sounded good with the Rok, it really shone with the tube speaker amp. That sweet tone is unforgetable.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Alright now for another question. My 6sn7w says 6sn7w on the metallic base but the print on the top of chrome tube says 6sn7a. So is this a 6sn7w?



Yes it is.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Finally got all 3 Marconis together. The one on the left is from another private seller who's so happy I bought his tube. I don't think many people are buying B36, so it's been sitting on ebay for a while. Now the 2 on the right are from Stavros. As you can see, the 2 Marconis on the left and right are identical but it's the one in the middle I'm excited about ... well I'm excited about the nice Marconi box too which is in excellent condition. I've become a box collector.



And again, the two on either end are "foreign made". That is, not only were they not manufactured by GEC/MOV, they were not manufactured in Britain, either. That said, I have no idea who or where...


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> And again, the two on either end are "foreign made". That is, not only were they not manufactured by GEC/MOV, they were not manufactured in Britain, either. That said, I have no idea who or where...


Hi Gibosi,

Maybe the Foreign Made in this case is Holland:












But I am not convinced.....


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Hi Gibosi,
> 
> Maybe the Foreign Made in this case is Holland:
> 
> ...


How close is this?










http://www.ebay.com/itm/B36-GEC-cle...606166?hash=item36236d6656:g:JNoAAOSwX61ZJbA-


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Yes it is.



Phew relieved !!! Thought my 175 pounds went down the drain.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> And again, the two on either end are "foreign made". That is, not only were they not manufactured by GEC/MOV, they were not manufactured in Britain, either. That said, I have no idea who or where...



Maybe it's made in Australia?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> How close is this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mordy that is a real Gec B36. Same as mine. Arnold start bidding !!!


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Mordy that is a real Gec B36. Same as mine. Arnold start bidding !!!


I can't use that Matt. I am an exclusive C3g boy!


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> I can't use that Matt. I am an exclusive C3g boy!



Oh..... lucky me, I get one extra socket.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Oh..... lucky me, I get one extra socket.


And you have the 5998 switch!


----------



## UntilThen

I'm looking for an Auralic Aries full version. Seems like they don't make it anymore. I'm so impressed with the Auralic Aries Mini, I want the big brother now.


----------



## rosgr63

gibosi said:


> Yes it is.



I agree with Ken, underneath you can see a 3 digit stamp which is the date code.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi Gibosi,
> 
> Maybe the Foreign Made in this case is Holland:
> 
> ...



No, the smoked-glass 6SN7GT manufactured by Philips at Eindhoven, Holland, has a bottom getter and the upper mica is rectangular with no teeth. So not the same tube...


----------



## rosgr63

If you look at the bottom of the mica base you'll be able to see the tube code stamped.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> And again, the two on either end are "foreign made". That is, not only were they not manufactured by GEC/MOV, they were not manufactured in Britain, either. That said, I have no idea who or where...


What say you about Fivre?


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> If you look at the bottom of the mica base you'll be able to see the tube code stamped.



Stavros, try as I would I cannot see any date code at the bottom. So I gave up and immersed myself at the newly arrived Redgum. I played 'Whole Lotta Love' and I can tell you Led Zep was in my living room last night. It was thunderous. I love it !!!


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> And you have the 5998 switch!



Arnold, I'll let you know when I flick that switch on. You will hear me from Dubai.


----------



## rosgr63

Nice set up Mattt
Sorry for the confusion I was referring to Ken's dark glass 6SN7


----------



## UntilThen

Thank you Stravos ! That reminds me, I'm still awaiting my Ken Rad 6sn7gt black glass.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Stavros, try as I would I cannot see any date code at the bottom. So I gave up and immersed myself at the newly arrived Redgum. I played 'Whole Lotta Love' and I can tell you Led Zep was in my living room last night. It was thunderous. I love it !!!




Great set-up....you do not need headphones


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Great set-up....you do not need headphones



It's a different experience. I still love headphones.


----------



## gibosi

Oskari said:


> What say you about Fivre?



I admit that in the back of my mind I wondered if they might have been manufactured by Fivre. So I pulled out a  Fivre 6SN7GT, dated 1956, and took some pictures. To my eyes, those "foreign made" Marconi's certainly look like this Fivre. The top mica, the plates, the side getter and the construction below the bottom mica.


----------



## UntilThen

Those Fivre does look like the Foreign made Marconni. So my 2 tubes does have credence after all.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> I admit that in the back of my mind I wondered if they might have been manufactured by Fivre. So I pulled out a  Fivre 6SN7GT, dated 1956, and took some pictures. To my eyes, those "foreign made" Marconi's certainly look like this Fivre. The top mica, the plates, the side getter and the construction below the bottom mica.


I suppose that settles it.


----------



## UntilThen

There's my lifetime supply of C3Gs. Perhaps I should get a pair of Lorenz ....  ..... and @Rossliew it's time to sell the Valvo back to me. 

Siemens on the stands and Telefunkens on it's tummy.


----------



## gibosi

But of course, you know that both pairs are Siemens.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm very sure Siemens sounds like Sssh and Telefunkens sounds like Tsk Tsk. I shall find out in due time.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> There's my lifetime supply of C3Gs. Perhaps I should get a pair of Lorenz ....  ..... and @Rossliew it's time to sell the Valvo back to me.
> 
> Siemens on the stands and Telefunkens on it's tummy.





gibosi said:


> But of course, you know that both pairs are Siemens.



Uh oh gibosi!  That's like telling UntilThen, "I can not tell a lie, however, I am lying!"  We better rocket him off into deep space before he explodes!


----------



## rnros

Well, they do sound the same, and that sound is very, very good.
If I ever had to pick just one driver, this would be it.


----------



## gibosi

Shiny-black cans with silkscreened text and logos are 1970's Siemens regardless of the brand.

If you want to have real "Lorenz" and "Telefunken" look for flat-black cans and embossed text and logos. That said, while embossed C3m Telefunkens are quite common, I have never seen an embossed C3g Telefunken. But I do believe they exist....

And Philips Valvo never made this tube, so all Valvo are rebrands.


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> Well, they do sound the same, and that sound is very, very good.
> If I ever had to pick just one driver, this would be it.



I agree, they are my favorite as well.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Stavros, try as I would I cannot see any date code at the bottom. So I gave up and immersed myself at the newly arrived Redgum. I played 'Whole Lotta Love' and I can tell you Led Zep was in my living room last night. It was thunderous. I love it !!!


UntilThen, was this your audio chain_: Rega RP8 / Apheta MC and Avid Pellar phono / Redgum RGi120ENR black series > Axis LS88?_  I would like to review your components that have served up your audio bliss.  What was the Led Zep medium that you used (vinyl LP, CD, digital format etc.?)


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> UntilThen, was this your audio chain_: Rega RP8 / Apheta MC and Avid Pellar phono / Redgum RGi120ENR black series > Axis LS88?_  I would like to review your components that have served up your audio bliss.  What was the Led Zep medium that you used (vinyl LP, CD, digital format etc.?)



Ru4music do you have the same gear? I'd be utterly surprised lol.

Yes that is my stereo gear. Vinyl sounds best to me because my tt setup is pretty top notch IMHO.

However even with digital from Auralic Aries Mini sounds really good.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Shiny-black cans with silkscreened text and logos are 1970's Siemens regardless of the brand.
> 
> If you want to have real "Lorenz" and "Telefunken" look for flat-black cans and embossed text and logos. That said, while embossed C3m Telefunkens are quite common, I have never seen an embossed C3g Telefunken. But I do believe they exist....
> 
> And Philips Valvo never made this tube, so all Valvo are rebrands.



I will start to emboss my Telefunken c3g with a hammer and a chisel.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Well, they do sound the same, and that sound is very, very good.
> If I ever had to pick just one driver, this would be it.



You mean the c3g sounds better than my 175 pounds 6sn7w metallic base?

I'm preparing a lawsuit.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Uh oh gibosi!  That's like telling UntilThen, "I can not tell a lie, however, I am lying!"  We better rocket him off into deep space before he explodes!



You have no idea. I am about to press the launch button that starts Star Wars.


----------



## ru4music (Oct 18, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Ru4music do you have the same gear? I'd be utterly surprised lol.
> 
> Yes that is my stereo gear. Vinyl sounds best to me because my tt setup is pretty top notch IMHO.
> 
> However even with digital from Auralic Aries Mini sounds really good.



Thank you, just try'n to keep up with the times!   Congrats, "on-the-dial-in" for the two channel stereo!  
 ... oh, btw... this is to help you  live through the 3:00 AM food cravings!  LOL


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Yes that is my stereo gear. Vinyl sounds best to me because my tt setup is pretty top notch IMHO.
> 
> However even with digital from Auralic Aries Mini sounds really good.


I always used to prefer vinyl over digital as well. Until I heard what a good DAC could do. Now I like both, but for different reasons. I hear more differences between vinyl and digital than I do with any tube rolling.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 19, 2017)

leftside said:


> I always used to prefer vinyl over digital as well. Until I heard what a good DAC could do. Now I like both, but for different reasons. I hear more differences between vinyl and digital than I do with any tube rolling.



I would consider my Yggdrasil dac very good but there's just that little more with my vinyl source. Granted I could comfortably live with both. As you said they exist for different purpose. It's nice to have both.

I agree. There are more differences between gear than tube rolling. When I did the Primaluna HP, Redgum RGi120ENR and Ragnarok amp comparion, the differences is huge compared to any tube rolling.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Thank you, just try'n to keep up with the times!   Congrats, "on-the-dial-in" for the two channel stereo!
> ... oh, btw... this is to help you  live through the 3:00 AM food cravings!  LOL



I thought you are going to throw all those food at me.


----------



## whirlwind

Telefunken AZ12 arrived yesterday. It looks new and is from 1942 I bought it as untested.

I rolled it in my amp this morning, it lights and plays fine and the price was real nice for this tube.

Thanks @gibosi for the heads up on this. I will post my impressions after some listening.


----------



## UntilThen

More tubes have arrived ! Ken Rad 6sn7gt in it's virgin's presentation. Brand new. Plus 6 x GE 6BX7GT. I've lost count of what tubes have yet to arrive.


----------



## lukeap69

I am not sure how similar your amp will be with my Darna. With C3gs as drivers and 6BL7s as power, the gain is very high. Just on the 2nd click of my 24 step attenuator, my HD800 were so loud already. In the end I had to add a passive preamp to reduce the volume. I mentioned this so you will be prepared when you receive your Ulysses.


----------



## UntilThen

No worries Arnold. I've ways to drop the volume on my software source - Audirvana Plus 3 or JRiver Media 23. If need be I will get a passive preamp. What preamp did you have?


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> No worries Arnold. I've ways to drop the volume on my software source - Audirvana Plus 3 or JRiver Media 23. If need be I will get a passive preamp. What preamp did you have?


I did drop the volume (gain) on Foobar and Audirvana initially but I had some inconsistent and not so good results. I did use my Rok as preamp  then acquired a Sys to be able to connect two DACs and at the same time control the volume. Planning to get a Saga in the future but I may acquire a Freya first for my LS50.


----------



## UntilThen

Ah ha so Ragnarok can be used as a preamp? That's what I would probably be doing. Although that would be a pretty expensive preamp... 

In my study now, there's Yggdrasil and Ragnarok. Ulysses will be joining them in due time. 

Wow Yggdrasil, Ragnarok and Ulysses. That's some vintage and ancient names. I could rewrite the classics here.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 20, 2017)

Just read Ragnarok user manual. It can indeed be used as a preamp with both balanced and single ended preamp outs. This seems like a multi function box. It can do everything.

Ok there's a catch. The preamp outs are disabled in headphone-only mode. Have to switch to headphone and speaker mode.


----------



## gibosi

After viewing all the tube porn here recently, I realized that I hadn't posted any in awhile! lol


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> After viewing all the tube porn here recently, I realized that I hadn't posted any in awhile! lol



Beautiful tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> I am not sure how similar your amp will be with my Darna. With C3gs as drivers and 6BL7s as power, the gain is very high. Just on the 2nd click of my 24 step attenuator, my HD800 were so loud already. In the end I had to add a passive preamp to reduce the volume. I mentioned this so you will be prepared when you receive your Ulysses.



You should try 6BX7s they have lower gain then the 6BL7s
6BL7 gain  15
6BX7 gain  10


----------



## rnros

lukeap69 said:


> I am not sure how similar your amp will be with my Darna. With C3gs as drivers and 6BL7s as power, the gain is very high. Just on the 2nd click of my 24 step attenuator, my HD800 were so loud already. In the end I had to add a passive preamp to reduce the volume. I mentioned this so you will be prepared when you receive your Ulysses.



Yes, I remember you mentioned this. That is not the case with my new GOTL 3X6/Lundhal.
I'm using a GungnirMB DAC which has single ended output of 2V RMS. I also do not have a stepped attenuator.
Either or both of those could be a factor.
Been a little while since I had the 6BL7s in the amp, but I could check again.
My recollection is that the volume range was fine with all the driver/output combinations I've used.
(Have used the C3gs with all the power tubes I have.)


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> Yes, I remember you mentioned this. That is not the case with my new GOTL 3X6/Lundhal.
> I'm using a GungnirMB DAC which has single ended output of 2V RMS. I also do not have a stepped attenuator.
> Either or both of those could be a factor.
> Been a little while since I had the 6BL7s in the amp, but I could check again.
> ...



Some DAC's output more then 2 volts. Even though that supposed to be the standard output voltage.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> After viewing all the tube porn here recently, I realized that I hadn't posted any in awhile! lol



What in the world is this? It's bluer than Fdd20.

Yes Ken you have been slack. I have run out of tubes to post. Now it's your turn.... again.


----------



## gibosi

These are Arcturus No. 127 single triodes. manufactured in the late 1920's or early 1930's. Yes, indeed, beautiful tubes.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Just read Ragnarok user manual. It can indeed be used as a preamp with both balanced and single ended preamp outs. This seems like a multi function box. It can do everything.
> 
> Ok there's a catch. The preamp outs are disabled in headphone-only mode. Have to switch to headphone and speaker mode.



There are three modes for the Rok, one is both headphones and speakers out are on, two is headphones only, and three is speakers only IIRC. You can cycle by holding down the input switch.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> You should try 6BX7s they have lower gain then the 6BL7s
> 6BL7 gain  15
> 6BX7 gain  10



Indeed. I have been using mostly 6BX7s instead of 6BL7s and I had actually collected 3-sixtets 6BX7s. 
However even with 6BX7s the gain is still high so I still had to use a preamp even with 6BX7s.


----------



## lukeap69

rnros said:


> Yes, I remember you mentioned this. That is not the case with my new GOTL 3X6/Lundhal.
> I'm using a GungnirMB DAC which has single ended output of 2V RMS. I also do not have a stepped attenuator.
> Either or both of those could be a factor.
> Been a little while since I had the 6BL7s in the amp, but I could check again.
> ...


That's good then. I will be interested to know Matt's findings when the Ulysses found its way home.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> Some DAC's output more then 2 volts. Even though that supposed to be the standard output voltage.


That's true Glenn. My Holo Spring DAC has higher output than my Audio-GD DACs and ARES. But even with the 'standard' output DACs the gain is still high but more manageable.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> That's good then. I will be interested to know Matt's findings when the Ulysses found its way home.



Ulysses home coming. 

Here's a nice story for you. 
http://www.storynory.com/2008/04/07/the-homecoming-of-odysseus/


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Indeed. I have been using mostly 6BX7s instead of 6BL7s and I had actually collected 3-sixtets 6BX7s.
> However even with 6BX7s the gain is still high so I still had to use a preamp even with 6BX7s.



3 sextet of of 6BX7? You hoarder.  Now let me find some more.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> 3 sextet of of 6BX7? You hoarder.  Now let me find some more.


From time to time I chance upon a set of 6BX7s in 5. If the price is not higher than 55 bucks, I grab it. Then search for a matching six member. So now I have a set of RCA, IEC/Mullard and Sylvania. I think that"s enough 6BX7s to last me a lifetime.


----------



## UntilThen

55 bucks for 5? Don't tease me. That will buy only 2 peanuts. Shipping for me is more expensive than the tubes. 

There's no way I can get sextet of one brand anymore. I'll just buy all different brands. That's in keeping with my box collections.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> 55 bucks for 5? Don't tease me. That will buy only 2 peanuts. Shipping for me is more expensive than the tubes.
> 
> There's no way I can get sextet of one brand anymore. I'll just buy all different brands. That's in keeping with my box collections.


Whilst Ulysses is sailing, the tubes can be shipped to Glenn then Ulysses can bring home the tubes with him, right? Saves you a lot of shipping cost...


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Whilst Ulysses is sailing, the tubes can be shipped to Glenn then Ulysses can bring home the tubes with him, right? Saves you a lot of shipping cost...



Yeah right... Ulysses will come home in a very big box then. Might not clear customs !!!


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Yeah right... Ulysses will come home in a very big box then. Might not clear customs !!!


So complicated...


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> These are Arcturus No. 127 single triodes. manufactured in the late 1920's or early 1930's. Yes, indeed, beautiful tubes.




Beautiful tube Ken!

I am quite liking the sound of the Telefunken AZ12...imaging is off the hook....great match for the ZMF Ori  IMO, especially since the Ori has a darker treble.....could be too much for say, 
the HD800, I have not tried that headphone with this tube yet.

For what it is worth, both of my amps from Glenn sound better when I can get up on the volume pot and especially the GEL3N amp....more volume means killer bass with the planar.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> That's true Glenn. My Holo Spring DAC has higher output than my Audio-GD DACs and ARES. But even with the 'standard' output DACs the gain is still high but more manageable.



The Holo Spring out puts 2.5 volts


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> I am not sure how similar your amp will be with my Darna. With C3gs as drivers and 6BL7s as power, the gain is very high. Just on the 2nd click of my 24 step attenuator, my HD800 were so loud already. In the end I had to add a passive preamp to reduce the volume. I mentioned this so you will be prepared when you receive your Ulysses.




Arnold, have you tried just two 6BX7 with your HD800 ?

Two tubes seem to be plenty of power for my HD800.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Yeah right... Ulysses will come home in a very big box then. Might not clear customs !!!



Sometimes AU customs is a pain in the butt.
Tony Newman got a number that I put on the box that got it through customs easier.
Maybe he prepaid a fee or something.


----------



## jekjek (Oct 21, 2017)

gibosi said:


> These are Arcturus No. 127 single triodes. manufactured in the late 1920's or early 1930's. Yes, indeed, beautiful tubes.



Nice tube Ken. You are using the 76 adapter?


----------



## jekjek

Another tube porn. Mullard Ecc35 arrived

Terima kasih Pak Stavros

Nice and clean sounding tube!

You should try this UT


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Arnold, have you tried just two 6BX7 with your HD800 ?
> 
> Two tubes seem to be plenty of power for my HD800.


Yes Joe. I tried 2 and 4 tubes also. I have not noticed any difference in gain. I like 6 tubes the most because it feels like Christmas when I look at the glow of all these tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Yes Joe. I tried 2 and 4 tubes also. I have not noticed any difference in gain. I like 6 tubes the most because it feels like Christmas when I look at the glow of all these tubes.



Ha, gotta love tube glow and Christmas and the price of 6BL7/6BX7


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Ha, gotta love tube glow and Christmas and the price of 6BL7/6BX7


Me too.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Sometimes AU customs is a pain in the butt.
> Tony Newman got a number that I put on the box that got it through customs easier.
> Maybe he prepaid a fee or something.



AU customs has never been a problem for me. Never had to pay any custom fees for any of the amps or tubes that I've purchase before. I just don't want to impose on you for tubes. You have too much to do already.... getting Ulysses home for me. 

Tony Newman is in New Zealand.


----------



## UntilThen

jekjek said:


> Another tube porn. Mullard Ecc35 arrived
> 
> Terima kasih Pak Stavros
> 
> ...



Jek, I had no idea you're Malaysian and I had no idea that ECC35 can be used in Ulysses. Stravos only told me about ECC33.

Now my 64 dollars question is - how does it sound in comparison to a good 6SN7 ?


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Arnold, have you tried just two 6BX7 with your HD800 ?
> 
> Two tubes seem to be plenty of power for my HD800.



Joe, we want the full force of the Sith lords when Beethoven 5th symphony comes on - not the da da da daaaa of R2d2.  We want to shake the cones of HD800.


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> Jek, I had no idea you're Malaysian and I had no idea that ECC35 can be used in Ulysses. Stravos only told me about ECC33.
> 
> Now my 64 dollars question is - how does it sound in comparison to a good 6SN7 ?



UT,

I'm Indonesian.
Stavros gave me a shocked when he replied my email in Indonesian as well.

You can also use 6SL7 as well in you GOTL.

I prefer the ECC35 over 6SN7 because it sounds more natural and liquid


----------



## UntilThen

jekjek said:


> UT,
> 
> I'm Indonesian.
> Stavros gave me a shocked when he replied my email in Indonesian as well.
> ...



I see !!! I was once your neighbour. I was from Singapore many, many light years ago.... Sir Stamford Raffles and I were buddies. 

Stravos is gifted if he knows Indonesian. I've a new found admiration for him now. 

I think Glenn told me that 6SL7 has too much gain for the amp I'm getting.

Now to check the price of ECC35... just when I'm about to buy an 'audiophile' CD player....


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Sometimes AU customs is a pain in the butt.
> Tony Newman got a number that I put on the box that got it through customs easier.
> Maybe he prepaid a fee or something.



New Zealand in my case, not Australia. NZ has a 'Client Code' system for imports over 1K NZD that smooths the wheels of bureaucracy. Doesn't apply to Oz, unfortunately.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Nice tube Ken. You are using the 76 adapter?



Yes, but you will need to add an external heater power supply as well.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Joe, we want the full force of the Sith lords when Beethoven 5th symphony comes on - not the da da da daaaa of R2d2.  We want to shake the cones of HD800.


u should try a dozen 300B. lol


----------



## leftside

jekjek said:


> UT,
> I prefer the ECC35 over 6SN7 because it sounds more natural and liquid


Agreed. Also has more gain I believe. I prefer all the ECCxx (ECC31 - ECC35) tubes over most 6SN7's. Got a whole bunch from a guy in Europe a while back NOS/NIB never been used. I prefer used ones to use/play. Can't bring myself to open/use the NOS/NIB ones.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> u should try a dozen 300B. lol



Hehehe.... don't get me started on 300b


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Agreed. Also has more gain I believe. I prefer all the ECCxx (ECC31 - ECC35) tubes over most 6SN7's. Got a whole bunch from a guy in Europe a while back NOS/NIB never been used. I prefer used ones to use/play. Can't bring myself to open/use the NOS/NIB ones.



Oh dearie me, now I have to get ECC33 and ECC35. I thought I had bought every tube under the sun.


----------



## attmci

leftside said:


> Agreed. Also has more gain I believe. I prefer all the ECCxx (ECC31 - ECC35) tubes over most 6SN7's. Got a whole bunch from a guy in Europe a while back NOS/NIB never been used. I prefer used ones to use/play. Can't bring myself to open/use the NOS/NIB ones.


I can help u with this. Do u wanna to trade ur NIB tubes with used/fully opened ones? lol


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> UT,
> 
> I'm Indonesian.
> Stavros gave me a shocked when he replied my email in Indonesian as well.
> ...



Stavros girlfriend is Indonesian it figures he can speak.
When I go to Greece there are many Indonesian's there


----------



## UntilThen

@gibosi  are these 6BL7? That's what the ad says. If it is, I'll buy it to try.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1x-6N12S...384396&hash=item4b26e95c1e:g:eEUAAOSw2J1ZlTkK


----------



## gibosi

Electrically, I believe that this is closer to a 5687, with a 0.9A heater, than a 6BL7, with a 1.5Am heater. However, even though it is not as powerful as a 6BL7, it has the same pin-out, and it should work. But I have no idea how it might sound.


----------



## UntilThen

I think I will pass on those 6N12S. Seems more like 6SN7 than 6BL7. I'll look for more 6BX7. I mean I am getting a custom made amp for 6 x 6BL7 right? So I need more 6BL7 / 6BX7 tubes than @attmci .


----------



## UntilThen

Just bought 3 Fivre 6BX7GT. That's all they have and it's NOS NIB. All the way from Italy.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I think I will pass on those 6N12S. Seems more like 6SN7 than 6BL7. I'll look for more 6BX7. I mean I am getting a custom made amp for 6 x 6BL7 right? So I need more 6BL7 / 6BX7 tubes than @attmci .


I should ship all my 6bx7 to you and call it a day.


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> I see !!! I was once your neighbour. I was from Singapore many, many light years ago.... Sir Stamford Raffles and I were buddies.
> 
> Stravos is gifted if he knows Indonesian. I've a new found admiration for him now.
> 
> ...


Forgot to say that i stay in Singapore. My bad.


UntilThen said:


> I see !!! I was once your neighbour. I was from Singapore many, many light years ago.... Sir Stamford Raffles and I were buddies.
> 
> Stravos is gifted if he knows Indonesian. I've a new found admiration for him now.
> 
> ...



I am staying at Singapore.

I think you should get one ECC35 from Stavros to try


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> Stavros girlfriend is Indonesian it figures he can speak.
> When I go to Greece there are many Indonesian's there



Nice. Now i need to go Greece too!


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> Oh dearie me, now I have to get ECC33 and ECC35. I thought I had bought every tube under the sun.


Nah. You are just starting out.
There's 5692 tube and also some other tubes that you can use with adapter 
Example e88cc, 12a*7
The combination is huge with GOTL


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I should ship all my 6bx7 to you and call it a day.



Don't do that. I need a competitor in this hobby. What is that tube in your avatar by the way?


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 21, 2017)

@jekjek  I will check out on you when I next visit Spore. It's true I haven't tried 5692 but I did use 5693 in La Figaro 339. I know they are no relations but the numbers are close. 

As for 12a*7, if I didn't sell off the Primaluna HP, I'd have 6 of them. e88cc? I have a close cousin in 6N23p - a pair. Enough tubes. I don't need to explore every tube.

But since you and Leftside speak so highly of ECC35, I shall call upon Stavros.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Oh dearie me, now I have to get ECC33 and ECC35. I thought I had bought every tube under the sun.



Oh, and there are plenty more to try! lol  To begin, how about ECC40, E80CC, E182CC, 6/30L2, 5687, 6463, 6AH7... and on and on and on....


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> Nice. Now i need to go Greece too!



Greece is a great place to visit good food too.
When we go there we get a mix of Greek and Indonesian food wonderful mix.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Oh, and there are plenty more to try! lol  To begin, how about ECC40, E80CC, E182CC, 6/30L2, 5687, 6463, 6AH7... and on and on and on....



Don't tempt me. I've a winning bid on this Mullard ECC35 for GBP 31. Do not bid on this guys. 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MULLARD...rksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&autorefresh=true


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Greece is a great place to visit good food too.
> When we go there we get a mix of Greek and Indonesian food wonderful mix.



I am definitely going to Greece now to raid Stavros tube bank.... and Greek and Indonesian food. I never knew there are Indonesians in Greece. This is news to me.


----------



## UntilThen

Finally tidy up the lounge a bit. Now to spin some vinyl while waiting for Ulysses to come home.


----------



## attmci (Oct 21, 2017)

The upstairs setting is beautiful. 



UntilThen said:


> Don't do that. I need a competitor in this hobby. What is that tube in your avatar by the way?


----------



## UntilThen

What tube is that attmci?


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> What tube is that attmci?



I don't have the tube. I heard it had been used in a film?? Sell for over $2000 dollars b4.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> I don't have the tube. I heard it had been used in a film?? Sell for over $2000 dollars b4.


I tried Google Images to identify the tube:






Image size:
253 × 662
No other sizes of this image found.
Best guess for this image: coffee grinder

So much for that, but a good laugh!


----------



## lukeap69

mordy said:


> I tried Google Images to identify the tube:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If that can work as a coffee grinder, I bet it will produced coffee with sweet notes. I am not sure about the aftertaste though.


----------



## rosgr63 (Oct 22, 2017)

jekjek said:


> Another tube porn. Mullard Ecc35 arrived
> 
> Terima kasih Pak Stavros
> 
> ...



Sama sama,  apa kamu mau saya bisa bantu kamu

I'm pleased you like it, you are most welcome to visit you'll find yourself at home!

Happy listening


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Stavros girlfriend is Indonesian it figures he can speak.
> When I go to Greece there are many Indonesian's there



Indeed.
Matt I've spent a lot of time in Singapore and Indonesia and have family in both places dating from 1973.......
I'm not a spring chicken........


----------



## rosgr63

gibosi said:


> Electrically, I believe that this is closer to a 5687, with a 0.9A heater, than a 6BL7, with a 1.5Am heater. However, even though it is not as powerful as a 6BL7, it has the same pin-out, and it should work. But I have no idea how it might sound.



I tried them as driver in one of my amps sometime ago


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Greece is a great place to visit good food too.
> When we go there we get a mix of Greek and Indonesian food wonderful mix.



It is no wonder you come home with added pounds, all of that great food!






gibosi said:


> Oh, and there are plenty more to try! lol  To begin, how about ECC40, E80CC, E182CC, 6/30L2, 5687, 6463, 6AH7... and on and on and on....



It is quite staggering when you stop and think about it.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Indeed.
> Matt I've spent a lot of time in Singapore and Indonesia and have family in both places dating from 1973.......
> I'm not a spring chicken........



A spring chicken is by definition a beautiful chick. So I gather you're an ostrich? 

Well Stavros, next time you're in Singapore, just hop over to Sydney. We got to catch up man. We could have a Fosters or Tooheys beer and throw a shrimp on the barbie, yeah?

I'm very excited to be buying this CD player .... soon. It's the Japanese at their best. This is tweaked at AIR Studios in north London so there's some high fidelity there. In other words, it's not a spring chicken !!!


----------



## whirlwind

Love the look on the SACD player, looks nice and compact


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Love the look on the SACD player, looks nice and compact



I figure I have 300+ CDs, a lot of them in audiophile productions, so I should get a creditable CD player rather than the Onkyo DVD player I'm currently using.

I'm dying to play my Eagles 'Hell Freezes Over' SACD disc on this Pioneer and Jennifer Warnes 20th anniversary edition of the 'Famous Blue Raincoat'. Plus Beatles, Leonard Cohen, Tchiakovsky, Beethoven, etc, etc.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> It is quite staggering when you stop and think about it.



Well I'm staggering now from buying all the tubes... in exactly 1 hour and 6 mins, I'll win the auction for a Mullard ECC35. Please no one bid on it ok?

In other news, I told the local groupie that I've ordered a Glenn OTL and they are hoping that I might get it for the Nov meet. I should tell them that Ulysses won't be coming home anytime soon no? 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/can...-11-november-2017.857485/page-3#post-13799844


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Well I'm staggering now from buying all the tubes... in exactly 1 hour and 6 mins, I'll win the auction for a Mullard ECC35. Please no one bid on it ok?
> 
> In other news, I told the local groupie that I've ordered a Glenn OTL and they are hoping that I might get it for the Nov meet. I should tell them that Ulysses won't be coming home anytime soon no?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/can...-11-november-2017.857485/page-3#post-13799844




No worries on me bidding, I am trying to lay off of buying tubes...even though I break down pretty easy, lol
I hope you win the ECC35, if not, there will always be another, lol


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I figure I have 300+ CDs, a lot of them in audiophile productions, so I should get a creditable CD player rather than the Onkyo DVD player I'm currently using.
> 
> I'm dying to play my Eagles 'Hell Freezes Over' SACD disc on this Pioneer and Jennifer Warnes 20th anniversary edition of the 'Famous Blue Raincoat'. Plus Beatles, Leonard Cohen, Tchiakovsky, Beethoven, etc, etc.



CD's are all I use. Have a old Tascam studio CD player that sounds great it is a rack mount though so it looks weard.
And the remote is wired so it can be controlled by studio equipment instead of the remote.
When it dies I guess I have to go to computer.
Didn't know good CD players were still sold.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> What tube is that attmci?



Looks like a 6Q7GT triode dual diode.
For the detector and first audio stage in AM radios
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/6/6Q7.pdf


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> I tried Google Images to identify the tube:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I cut the image from the original one.


----------



## 2359glenn

I still have a old radio that uses this tube A GE with a 78 rpm phonograph on top if you lift the cover.
Still works the last time I turned it on.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> CD's are all I use. Have a old Tascam studio CD player that sounds great it is a rack mount though so it looks weard.
> And the remote is wired so it can be controlled by studio equipment instead of the remote.
> When it dies I guess I have to go to computer.
> Didn't know good CD players were still sold.



Glenn, I'm buying 'used'. It's not new but mint. Pre-loved.  

Lots of good stuff on the local aussie stereo net classifieds. I was so tempted with this. https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/235203-fs-audia-flight-three-cd-player/. This is top end Italian stuff and at AUD$1350, again a great bargain.

But I reckon the Pioneer is good enough and for AUD$350 it's a real bargain. https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/235162-sold-fs-pioneer-d6-sacd-twin-dac-player/


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> CD's are all I use. Have a old Tascam studio CD player that sounds great it is a rack mount though so it looks weard.
> And the remote is wired so it can be controlled by studio equipment instead of the remote.
> When it dies I guess I have to go to computer.
> Didn't know good CD players were still sold.



Glenn North Star Design of Italy still make them.
I have one of their older units.
I'm Digital 80% and CD 20% now.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I still have a old radio that uses this tube A GE with a 78 rpm phonograph on top if you lift the cover.
> Still works the last time I turned it on.



You have some vintage stuff there. Would be a collector's item now.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> I'm Digital 80% and CD 20% now.



I would be vinyl 33.3% , network streamer 33.3% and CD 33.3 % now.  I've the rack space for it. This is for the speakers system. For headphones, I'm still using PC and iMac with Yggy in the study.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> No worries on me bidding, I am trying to lay off of buying tubes...even though I break down pretty easy, lol
> I hope you win the ECC35, if not, there will always be another, lol



Joe I was so sure that I would win the auction but with 2 secs to go, someone beat me to my max bid of 80 pounds.  I wasn't too perturbed though because I was thinking about the CD player.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Joe I was so sure that I would win the auction but with 2 secs to go, someone beat me to my max bid of 80 pounds.  I wasn't too perturbed though because I was thinking about the CD player.


Psst: Wanna have a good deal on four coffee grinders?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-New-Unus...711132?hash=item56a359129c:g:l1IAAOSw4nhZ5iI6

I reckon $3 each would do it, but I ain't bidding - too many tubes........But 6.3V and 0.3A - should work


----------



## UntilThen

Hi folks where have everyone gone? As for me, I've been quietly enjoying my speakers and headphones. Such amazing tone that I've run out of words to describe them. 

Anyhoo, whilst giving all the love to the stereo and headfi setup, I realise my TV sound has been neglected. I'm stuck with the almost 20 years old Sherwood and Denon HT receivers that has no HDMI. That's like living in the stone age.

So I bought a baby Yamaha to drive my stand mounted speakers and subwoofer. Now I might actually like watching TV again. 

*Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A660 7.2-Channel Receiver*


----------



## lukeap69

I was wondering the same Matt. You have been quiet - I thought you flew directly to the US to collect Ulysses yourself. 

My TV set and Android TV box are connected to my LS50 system which is good enough for me so no AV receiver currently.


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> Hi folks where have everyone gone? As for me, I've been quietly enjoying my speakers and headphones. Such amazing tone that I've run out of words to describe them.
> 
> Anyhoo, whilst giving all the love to the stereo and headfi setup, I realise my TV sound has been neglected. I'm stuck with the almost 20 years old Sherwood and Denon HT receivers that has no HDMI. That's like living in the stone age.
> 
> ...



Wow, you must be suffering a very serious GAS. Nice setup!


----------



## UntilThen

Arnold what you need is Dolby Atmos. It will set you free. Sound will flow in and through you. It's more than 3D. It's D everywhere.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Arnold what you need is Dolby Atmos. It will set you free. Sound will flow in and through you. It's more than 3D. It's D everywhere.


If it is like the Harry Potter experience in Universal Studio in Japan then I might consider that.


----------



## 2359glenn (Oct 26, 2017)

A little tube / amp porn
EL3N amp in progress


----------



## UntilThen

Wow I want that.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> A little tube / amp porn
> EL3N amp in progress


Hi Glenn,

Time to reset the date on your camera?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> 
> Time to reset the date on your camera?



Why bather every time I take the flash memory or batterys out it resets.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> A little tube / amp porn
> EL3N amp in progress


Damn!  I wish that was mine!   !!!!!

Hope everything is well Glenn, take care.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Wow I want that.



Too bad! Wait in line like the rest of us... you international tube monger


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Too bad! Wait in line like the rest of us... you international tube monger



I will swap my Ulysses for your Scarlett Ohara.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> I will swap my Ulysses for your Scarlett Ohara.



*"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn**"  !!! *


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> A little tube / amp porn
> EL3N amp in progress




As always, looks great Glenn.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> A little tube / amp porn
> EL3N amp in progress



Beautiful amp.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> A little tube / amp porn
> EL3N amp in progress



Tempted to have 1 too


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> A little tube / amp porn
> EL3N amp in progress



Another GEL3N beauty. On my wishlist also.


----------



## whirlwind

New Arrivals


 

5T4...Shielded rectifier
 

5V3....Glenn said this is a bit of overkill for the EL3N amp, but it was to good a deal to pass up
Sorry, not a good picture, but it has a round getter on each side of the top of the tube
 

5AZ4....only writing on base of tube reads Japan...I just rolled it in the amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> New Arrivals
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have you tried any of these yet?
The 5T4 gets extremely hot but the shielding is nice less hum being radiated.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Have you tried any of these yet?
> The 5T4 gets extremely hot but the shielding is nice less hum being radiated.



I have the 5AZ4 in the amp at the moment.

I feel like I have stolen it, as it was only $4


----------



## 2359glenn

Not a very common tube so it's cheep.
I got most of my 3DG4s for $1 from Stan.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Not a very common tube so it's cheep.
> I got most of my 3DG4s for $1 from Stan.



They have a nice selection of 5 volt rectifiers that are not going to break the bank, I believe 3DG4 is $4 now. Great tube too.

Who is the lucky owner of you most recent GEL3N amp...or...is that one yours.


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music he has been waiting for awhile first had to wait for the transformers to be made.
Then I was sick for 2 weeks.
But I will be close to finishing his amp this weekend.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> ru4music he has been waiting for awhile first had to wait for the transformers to be made.
> Then I was sick for 2 weeks.
> But I will be close to finishing his amp this weekend.




I thought so.

His comments of  "Damn I wish that was mine "   threw me off.

Sounds like good times ahead for him real soon.


----------



## lukeap69

Listening to GNR's 4 albums today with my HD650>Darna>ARES>Wyrd>Surface Pro 3. The Darna has the TS 7236 as power currently and these are excellent with the HD650. My Darna is dead quiet in between songs. Fantastic amp Glenn! Never ceases to amaze me.


----------



## Rossliew

lukeap69 said:


> Listening to GNR's 4 albums today with my HD650>Darna>ARES>Wyrd>Surface Pro 3. The Darna has the TS 7236 as power currently and these are excellent with the HD650. My Darna is dead quiet in between songs. Fantastic amp Glenn! Never ceases to amaze me.



Interested to hear your thoughts on the Ares


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> ru4music he has been waiting for awhile first had to wait for the transformers to be made.
> Then I was sick for 2 weeks.
> But I will be close to finishing his amp this weekend.


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> I thought so.
> 
> >>His comments of  "Damn I wish that was mine "   threw me off.
> 
> ...



, for sure!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> New Arrivals



Nice find Joe. I like cheap tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> ru4music he has been waiting for awhile first had to wait for the transformers to be made.
> Then I was sick for 2 weeks.
> But I will be close to finishing his amp this weekend.



Good news for ru4music.  The EL3N amp does look very nice. Very striking.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Listening to GNR's 4 albums today with my HD650>Darna>ARES>Wyrd>Surface Pro 3. The Darna has the TS 7236 as power currently and these are excellent with the HD650. My Darna is dead quiet in between songs. Fantastic amp Glenn! Never ceases to amaze me.



Are you using four 7236? That's a lot of fire power for HD650. Your setup should sound very good. 7236 will go nicely with HD650.

I'll find out how GNR sound when Ulysses comes home. Looking forward but in the meantime, I think I have just completed my home theatre setup with a pair of Whaferdale 10.1 speakers. Britain's most well known speakers. These with my Definitive Technology subwoofer sound incredibly good in stereo mode.

The Whaferdale speakers are much cheaper than my headphones but the quality of construction is outstanding. It's stunning in glossy piano black. I chose rosewood veneer on the sides to match with my other Axis speakers. The Whaferdales were bought for surround sound duties at the back but I think I will keep them in front now. I also bought matching Whaferdale stands for it.


----------



## lukeap69

Rossliew said:


> Interested to hear your thoughts on the Ares



Some thoughts here vs the Spring
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/den...ac-close-up-view.833690/page-34#post-13348438

For its price, the ARES is very good. I like it and I think it pairs well with the HD800.


----------



## UntilThen

Close up of the Whaferdale 10.1. Designed in UK and made in China.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Are you using four 7236? That's a lot of fire power for HD650. Your setup should sound very good. 7236 will go nicely with HD650.
> 
> I'll find out how GNR sound when Ulysses comes home. Looking forward but in the meantime, I think I have just completed my home theatre setup with a pair of Whaferdale 10.1 speakers. Britain's most well known speakers. These with my Definitive Technology subwoofer sound incredibly good in stereo mode.
> 
> The Whaferdale speakers are much cheaper than my headphones but the quality of construction is outstanding. It's stunning in glossy piano black. I chose rosewood veneer on the sides to match with my other Axis speakers. The Whaferdales were bought for surround sound duties at the back but I think I will keep them in front now. I also bought matching Whaferdale stands for it.


I use only a pair of 7236.

Your speaker setup looks very nice. I reckon that sounds fantastic. Looks great also.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> For its price, the ARES is very good. I like it and I think it pairs well with the HD800.



I came very close to buying a Denafrip Ares. Spoke to Alvin, the Singaporean dealer a lot. In the end, I decided to buy a Schiit Gumby but end up with a Yggy instead and my wallet suffered a heart attack. I've a hunch that the Ares will sound just greaaaat.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> I use only a pair of 7236.
> 
> Your speaker setup looks very nice. I reckon that sounds fantastic. Looks great also.



Only a pair? Use 2 pairs and light up the night skies. 

You're welcome to visit me in Sydney. @Lord Raven has been to my home but my lounge system wasn't really setup then. My tower speakers drivers weren't reconditioned then and the drums were still in the main lounge !!! I still haven't learn to play the drums.

The last time when I spoke to Naveed, he was into Home Theatre. I think I will entice him back here and get him to buy a Ulysses or Scarlett.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Only a pair? Use 2 pairs and light up the night skies.
> 
> You're welcome to visit me in Sydney. @Lord Raven has been to my home but my lounge system wasn't really setup then. My tower speakers drivers weren't reconditioned then and the drums were still in the main lounge !!! I still haven't learn to play the drums.
> 
> The last time when I spoke to Naveed, he was into Home Theatre. I think I will entice him back here and get him to buy a Ulysses or Scarlett.


Wow, Naveed visited your place? Nice to know. If we decided to visit my wife's relatives in NZ, I may stop over to your place and check your wonderful setup.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> I came very close to buying a Denafrip Ares. Spoke to Alvin, the Singaporean dealer a lot. In the end, I decided to buy a Schiit Gumby but end up with a Yggy instead and my wallet suffered a heart attack. I've a hunch that the Ares will sound just greaaaat.


Alvin is a fantastic seller. I would select Gumby or Yggy over ARES myself as well. If I didn"t have have the Spring already, I probably didn't buy the ARES. After the Spring, Yggy was my 2nd choice, then Gumby. I came close to buying either of the Schiit DAC but Spring came along and the rest is history.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Wow, Naveed visited your place? Nice to know. If we decided to visit my wife's relatives in NZ, I may stop over to your place and check your wonderful setup.



Sure, do let me know if you are coming to Sydney.

Yes Naveed and his beautiful wife visited me and I took them sight seeing. Went to Blue Mountains, too them to see Harbour Bridge and Opera House. When I pick Naveed up at his hotel, I thought he is a Bollywood star.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> *"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn**"  !!! *



I type wrongly. I meant Scarlett Johansson.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> I type wrongly. I meant Scarlett Johansson.



LOL!  I actually think ScarOh is a better representation (i.e. nostalgic/ classy), however ScarJo looks hot, like 2 sets of quad 6336 tubes lit in the Ulysses! ...


----------



## Lord Raven (Oct 28, 2017)

Hi UT, Arnold, and Everyone,

I am in love with the Marantz SR7011 and my bookshelf speakers, Focal Chorus. I wish I could try the tube amps with the current setup, the Marantz is warm and detailed. I absolutely love it. It can play any format from the HDD. Even my wife loves it 

I am going to visit UT again if I remember the address correctly, he is living in the middle of a lot of audio equipment. And recently he has acquired even more, so yeah. I am coming back.

That 10.1 Wharfdale is amazing, I am looking for surround speakers myself these days and there is a great deal coming up on Klipsch RP-150M. I might try some American stuff this time, I have only tried Focal all my life. I bet the horn technology that went in there is good.

LOL let's watch an Indian movie together this time, what do you say? @UntilThen




UntilThen said:


> Only a pair? Use 2 pairs and light up the night skies.
> 
> You're welcome to visit me in Sydney. @Lord Raven has been to my home but my lounge system wasn't really setup then. My tower speakers drivers weren't reconditioned then and the drums were still in the main lounge !!! I still haven't learn to play the drums.
> 
> The last time when I spoke to Naveed, he was into Home Theatre. I think I will entice him back here and get him to buy a Ulysses or Scarlett.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> LOL!  I actually think ScarOh is a better representation (i.e. nostalgic/ classy), however ScarJo looks hot, like 2 sets of quad 6336 tubes lit in the Ulysses! ...



Dang you get my imaginations going wild now. I will look at the 6336 with admiration now.


----------



## UntilThen

Lord Raven said:


> Hi UT, Arnold, and Everyone,
> 
> I am in love with the Marantz SR7011 and my bookshelf speakers, Focal Chorus. I wish I could try the tube amps with the current setup, the Marantz is warm and detailed. I absolutely love it. It can play any format from the HDD. Even my wife loves it
> 
> ...



Naveed !!!  

Marantz is good. I got Yamaha. Focal Chorus is good too but ...... you must listen to my Ulysses with Eikon the next time you are here.

Funny you should mention about watching an Indian movie. At the Digital Cinema store yesterday when I was buying the Whaferdale, there on the big screen TV was an Indian movie going on with the usual Bollywood singing and dancing. Very enjoyable. So yeah let's watch an Indian movie the next time you are here. Or we can get one on Blueray and watch it at my place.


----------



## UntilThen

Dang that Marantz SR7011 cost $4000. Did you just inherit another oil well?


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Dang that Marantz SR7011 cost $4000. Did you just inherit another oil well?



LOL!  You spent that in the last four weeks in NOS (nostalgic) tubes for u're Ulysses!    I have to admit, I really liked (and still do) the prime era ( `70 - 80's)  SS receivers, some of the best musical sounds I've heard.  I've got a premier McIntosh 2100 on my personal bench just looking for rejuvenation!!!  sigh!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

Haha the oil business is not that good anymore, I am trading Bitcoin  



UntilThen said:


> Dang that Marantz SR7011 cost $4000. Did you just inherit another oil well?



I'm glad you're back in your living room, it was my first thought to fix your tower speakers and listen to them. Let's watch it at home, it wouldn't look nice if we left the cinema while my wife is still inside, she loves Bollywood. LOL  



UntilThen said:


> Naveed !!!
> 
> Marantz is good. I got Yamaha. Focal Chorus is good too but ...... you must listen to my Ulysses with Eikon the next time you are here.
> 
> Funny you should mention about watching an Indian movie. At the Digital Cinema store yesterday when I was buying the Whaferdale, there on the big screen TV was an Indian movie going on with the usual Bollywood singing and dancing. Very enjoyable. So yeah let's watch an Indian movie the next time you are here. Or we can get one on Blueray and watch it at my place.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> New Arrivals
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi whirlwind,

That Channel Master tube Made in Japan you may be able to identify from a comprehensive review of Japanese tubes that Oskari can send you a link to.
I have two pairs of Channel Master 6SN7 Made in Japan. They sound quite good, but I could not identify the Japanese manufacturer (even with the above mentioned reference).
I was finally able to do it by going to Google Images and typing in Japanese 6SN7 tubes. After some scrolling through a number of pictures I finally found the exact look-alike - NEC.

Don't know about you, but I enjoy finding out who made a tube and when, trying to decipher the date codes. The Japanese date code was easy: Something like 5J which means 1955, October if I remember correctly.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> LOL!  You spent that in the last four weeks in NOS (nostalgic) tubes for u're Ulysses!    I have to admit, I really liked (and still do) the prime era ( `70 - 80's)  SS receivers, some of the best musical sounds I've heard.  I've got a premier McIntosh 2100 on my personal bench just looking for rejuvenation!!!  sigh!!!



Don't remind me about my tube cost.

That McIntosh 2100 is a classic. Make sure you get it restored.


----------



## leftside

Thought I'd create a post talking about Glenn amps  Tried out a pair of HE-6 headphones today. Nice new drivers - only 12 months old - in great shape all around. Gave them a listen with the WA22 first, but even with the preamp turned up high the WA22 doesn't really have enough power (as expected). Next up was to try the HE-6 with the Glenn 300B. This was much better, but I still had to turn the preamp up to about 70 whereas with the LCD-3 I only need to turn the preamp up to about 40 (out of 100).

The HE-6 sound really good! These will now be my second pair of headphones. The LCD-3 just has a bit more of a holographic/enveloping sound with a more commanding bass, but the HE-6 are still mighty fine. As others have mentioned many times, just make sure you have a beefy amp and a decent preamp with plenty of gain.


----------



## UntilThen

Lord Raven said:


> Haha the oil business is not that good anymore, I am trading Bitcoin
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad you're back in your living room, it was my first thought to fix your tower speakers and listen to them. Let's watch it at home, it wouldn't look nice if we left the cinema while my wife is still inside, she loves Bollywood. LOL



You do your Bitcoin. I will trade in tubes. It's the future trust me.

Yup the speaker designer John Reilly came to my home and desolder the 4 midrange drivers. Then I took them to the premier store Len Wallis who then send it to Speaker Factory to have new rubber surrounds fitted. Finally it came home and John was there to solder them in the tower speakers again. Now with the Redgum amp driving, it's better than VMAX cinema.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Thought I'd create a post talking about Glenn amps  Tried out a pair of HE-6 headphones today. Nice new drivers - only 12 months old - in great shape all around. Gave them a listen with the WA22 first, but even with the preamp turned up high the WA22 doesn't really have enough power (as expected). Next up was to try the HE-6 with the Glenn 300B. This was much better, but I still had to turn the preamp up to about 70 whereas with the LCD-3 I only need to turn the preamp up to about 40 (out of 100).
> 
> The HE-6 sound really good! These will now be my second pair of headphones. The LCD-3 just has a bit more of a holographic/enveloping sound with a more commanding bass, but the HE-6 are still mighty fine. As others have mentioned many times, just make sure you have a beefy amp and a decent preamp with plenty of gain.



Nice to know that the 300B amp can drive the HE-6 they probably needed all of the 8 watts.
Need a 211 amp.


----------



## UntilThen

That's a very nice looking 300b amp.


----------



## Rossliew

lukeap69 said:


> Some thoughts here vs the Spring
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/den...ac-close-up-view.833690/page-34#post-13348438
> 
> For its price, the ARES is very good. I like it and I think it pairs well with the HD800.



Thanks for the link Arnold. It seems like very good bang for the buck. On the other hand am also looking at a used Bryston BDA-3 which seems to have all round positive comments especially in regards the bass reproduction


----------



## lukeap69

I haven't heard that particular model of the Bryston but I heard one Bryston DAC last year and I thought it was good. Let us know how it sounds if you decided to get it. Cheers.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Hi whirlwind,
> 
> That Channel Master tube Made in Japan you may be able to identify from a comprehensive review of Japanese tubes that Oskari can send you a link to.
> I have two pairs of Channel Master 6SN7 Made in Japan. They sound quite good, but I could not identify the Japanese manufacturer (even with the above mentioned reference).
> ...



Hi Mordy.
My 5AZ4  has ServiceMaster on it and there is another name above that , but I can not make it out. No numbers on the base of the tube, just  Japan.
number 243 is etched small in the glass....tube sounds nice




leftside said:


> Thought I'd create a post talking about Glenn amps  Tried out a pair of HE-6 headphones today. Nice new drivers - only 12 months old - in great shape all around. Gave them a listen with the WA22 first, but even with the preamp turned up high the WA22 doesn't really have enough power (as expected). Next up was to try the HE-6 with the Glenn 300B. This was much better, but I still had to turn the preamp up to about 70 whereas with the LCD-3 I only need to turn the preamp up to about 40 (out of 100).
> 
> The HE-6 sound really good! These will now be my second pair of headphones. The LCD-3 just has a bit more of a holographic/enveloping sound with a more commanding bass, but the HE-6 are still mighty fine. As others have mentioned many times, just make sure you have a beefy amp and a decent preamp with plenty of gain.



Great picture.

Congrats on being able to power the HE-6 with it.


----------



## whirlwind

UT

How long was the wait for the Atticus & Eikon ?


----------



## UntilThen

3 weeks .... I think. 

Of all my headphones, I use Eikon the most. Sounds best to me and it's also the most comfortable. I can't believe I'm saying this but it's more comfortable than HD800. It's more comfortable than Atticus because the Eikon pads are soft lamb's skin.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> 3 weeks .... I think.
> 
> Of all my headphones, I use Eikon the most. Sounds best to me and it's also the most comfortable. I can't believe I'm saying this but it's more comfortable than HD800. It's more comfortable than Atticus because the Eikon pads are soft lamb's skin.




Thanks...I may have it for Christmas...I will probably get two sets of pads for it


----------



## Oskari

whirlwind said:


> 5AZ4....only writing on base of tube reads Japan...I just rolled it in the amp.





mordy said:


> That Channel Master tube Made in Japan you may be able to identify from a comprehensive review of Japanese tubes that Oskari can send you a link to.





whirlwind said:


> My 5AZ4  has ServiceMaster on it and there is another name above that , but I can not make it out. No numbers on the base of the tube, just  Japan.
> number 243 is etched small in the glass....tube sounds nice



International Servicemaster. Is that a mislabeled 5Y3GT? The 5AZ4 is a loctal type.

See photos at http://www.geocities.jp/radiomann/HomePageVT/Audio_REC_US.html#5Y3GT. I'd say NEC.


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> International Servicemaster. Is that a mislabeled 5Y3GT? The 5AZ4 is a loctal type.
> 
> See photos at http://www.geocities.jp/radiomann/HomePageVT/Audio_REC_US.html#5Y3GT. I'd say NEC.


Thanks Oskari. Re the number 243, it could mean 43rd week (October) 1962.


----------



## gibosi

Some tube/amp porn:

(Although I understand that most here have no real interest in 4-volt rectifiers and old single triodes....)

A Telefunken WE56 manufactured in Milan, Italy, 1942, a quad of Tung-Sol 6BX7GT (about 1960), and in the center, a pair of RCA #76 (1936).

Sounds darn good. 




WE56 is "Telefunken speak" for AZ4.  Since the AZ4 and AZ12 are electrically identical, I hope eventually to compare the Italian Telefunken WE56 to a German Telefunken AZ12, also manufactured in 1942.  I had wondered if the WE56 was actually manufactured in Milan, or if it was largely manufactured in Berlin and finished in Milan. But as can be seen in the photo below compared to the German-made AZ12, the plates, filaments, mica supports, getter holder and glass pinch are all quite different, so I am now inclined to believe that the WE56 was actually assembled in Milan from components sourced locally.

German AZ12 (Jan 1942), on the left, and Italian WE56 (Nov 1942), on the right.


----------



## 2359glenn

I originally designed the EL3N amp to use 4 volt side pin rectifiers AZ4 or AZ1 but was asked to change to 5 volt
8 pin for more tube rolling possibilities.


----------



## whirlwind

Oskari said:


> International Servicemaster. Is that a mislabeled 5Y3GT? The 5AZ4 is a loctal type.
> 
> See photos at http://www.geocities.jp/radiomann/HomePageVT/Audio_REC_US.html#5Y3GT. I'd say NEC.



I think you are right and that the tube must be mislabeled.
When I google for pics of 5AZ4, like you said, I get a tube with a loctal base.

Thanks for the link...much appreciated.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Thanks...I may have it for Christmas...I will probably get two sets of pads for it



It will be a merry christmas for you then. 

I will get a chance to listen to an Abyss on 11th Nov in the local Sydney meet - on my Yggy and Rggy combo. There will also be a Woo WA5LE there. Have not heard the WA5 with 300b tubes before. Would have been good to listen to the Abyss on Glenn's OTL but there's always another time.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> It will be a merry christmas for you then.
> 
> I will get a chance to listen to an Abyss on 11th Nov in the local Sydney meet - on my Yggy and Rggy combo. There will also be a Woo WA5LE there. Have not heard the WA5 with 300b tubes before. Would have been good to listen to the Abyss on Glenn's OTL but there's always another time.



Yeah, I am really looking forward to hearing the Atticus with both amps.   I have been wanting to hear the Atticus since it's launch.

Should be great fun listening to Abyss and all of that good gear.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I originally designed the EL3N amp to use 4 volt side pin rectifiers AZ4 or AZ1 but was asked to change to 5 volt
> 8 pin for more tube rolling possibilities.



I like being able to roll rectifier tubes, but it is not necessary.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I like being able to roll rectifier tubes, but it is not necessary.



Speaking about rolling I have your 4 pin to 8 pin adapter made and packed.
More tubes to roll 5Z3 80 83


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Speaking about rolling I have your 4 pin to 8 pin adapter made and packed.
> More tubes to roll 5Z3 80 83




Thank you Glenn.

I look forward to trying some type 80 rectifiers


----------



## Lord Raven

Haha sorry about the delayed response, I am studying for an exam on 12th. I am selling all my 6AS7G tubes including GEC  How about that? I want more bitcoins. 

That VMAX cinema gave me tinnitus, I specifically remember my ears started ringing after I came back home from Oz  Let the tower speakers burn in for a good time, we shall enjoy some music soon, God willing.



UntilThen said:


> You do your Bitcoin. I will trade in tubes. It's the future trust me.
> 
> Yup the speaker designer John Reilly came to my home and desolder the 4 midrange drivers. Then I took them to the premier store Len Wallis who then send it to Speaker Factory to have new rubber surrounds fitted. Finally it came home and John was there to solder them in the tower speakers again. Now with the Redgum amp driving, it's better than VMAX cinema.


----------



## UntilThen

I will offer you $50 for the GEC 6as7g. 

I'm going to clear up my study today. All the tubes will be boxed, marked and carefully stored away till Ulysses comes home. Right now all I have for head-fi is Yggdrasil and Ragnarok with 5 headphones.

Don't listen to Focals too much. They will give you tinnitus.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I will offer you $50 for the GEC 6as7g.
> 
> I'm going to clear up my study today. All the tubes will be boxed, marked and carefully stored away till Ulysses comes home. Right now all I have for head-fi is Yggdrasil and Ragnarok with 5 headphones.
> 
> Don't listen to Focals too much. They will give you tinnitus.



UT I will have the EL3N amp finished tomorrow then will be starting your OTL


----------



## UntilThen (Nov 3, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> UT I will have the EL3N amp finished tomorrow then will be starting your OTL



Thanks Glenn. I am certainly looking forward to it. 

I will be doing a review of it on Head-Fi after a considerable burn in period. It will be paired with the best of my sources and all my headphones. I will roll in a good selection of tubes. As I said, I am looking forward to it.


----------



## ru4music (Nov 4, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> UT I will have the EL3N amp finished tomorrow then will be starting your OTL



Woo hoo!  Looking forward to the GEL3N amp, it's been a number of months; worth the wait (I'm sure!)  Glenn, please PM me as to the status of my build.


----------



## UntilThen

@ru4music  you will be getting your amp real soon. I mean reaaaaal soooon.


----------



## UntilThen

I would really love to put these 2 headphones through Glenn's OTL amp. Out from Ragnarok, these headphones are the most musical cans I've heard and I've heard lots including Focal Utopia. Atticus is in the driver's seat now and the tone's right on the money. I think with the OTL amp, it will be even better. That's my prediction....

Joe, you will be thrilled with Atticus driven by GEL3N or GOTL. Well I will wait to hear your impressions.


----------



## 2359glenn

@ru4music I have 8 resistors to wire in and the amp is complete.
That will be done early this afternoon then I will start burning it in.


----------



## 2359glenn

After I finish UT's amp I will start building a EL3N amp for me.
It will be the same as @whirlwind amp but with craziness. All DH labs 99.99% pure silver wire in the audio paths.
I am not a wire person but figured I would go all out with this amp.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> After I finish UT's amp I will start building a EL3N amp for me.
> It will be the same as @whirlwind amp but with craziness. All DH labs 99.99% pure silver wire in the audio paths.
> I am not a wire person but figured I would go all out with this amp.



Wonderful Glenn.

Glad you will be getting another EL3N amp for yourself.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I would really love to put these 2 headphones through Glenn's OTL amp. Out from Ragnarok, these headphones are the most musical cans I've heard and I've heard lots including Focal Utopia. Atticus is in the driver's seat now and the tone's right on the money. I think with the OTL amp, it will be even better. That's my prediction....
> 
> Joe, you will be thrilled with Atticus driven by GEL3N or GOTL. Well I will wait to hear your impressions.



@Hansotek bought a used OTL made by Glenn that someone sold here on the forums.....he has told me the synergy with Zach's headphones is a 10/10...that is what I am looking for.

I believe the bass may even be better with the EL3N amp


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> After I finish UT's amp I will start building a EL3N amp for me.
> It will be the same as @whirlwind amp but with craziness. All DH labs 99.99% pure silver wire in the audio paths.
> I am not a wire person but figured I would go all out with this amp.



Glenn if ever I get a EL3N amp, I want the same craziness please.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> After I finish UT's amp I will start building a EL3N amp for me.
> It will be the same as @whirlwind amp but with craziness. All DH labs 99.99% pure silver wire in the audio paths.
> I am not a wire person but figured I would go all out with this amp.



Just sell me your amp once you're bored with it


----------



## Hansotek

whirlwind said:


> @Hansotek bought a used OTL made by Glenn that someone sold here on the forums.....he has told me the synergy with Zach's headphones is a 10/10...that is what I am looking for.
> 
> I believe the bass may even be better with the EL3N amp



I bought it off gelajoy, no need to start conspiracy theories with dubious ellipses, lol.

Yeah, after I heard the ZMF Atticus on an OTL, I had to get one... the mids get this beautiful bloom to them when they are paired with an amp with a higher output impedance. Pair that up with some tubes that have great mids, and it's just crazy beautiful, romantic tone. It's like it shines a spotlight on the vocal or lead instrument... kind of like the effect you get with a great pair of horn speakers and a nice 300B amp. It's not going to be the most resolving or the biggest stage or anything, but once you hear it, you can't unhear it. There's something very emotionally evocative about that kind of presentation.

Now I'm evaluating the ZMF Auteur with the OTL and I'm just loving the synergy between the two. Just popped in the Philips Miniwatt GZ34 this morning and it is super exciting and impactful with lots of "drive" and a great airy feel. I love how it manages to feel both airy and dense at the same time without being v-shaped... it's a rare thing only a few headphone's can pull off, and Glenn's amp takes it to another level altogether, milking out those last few precious drops of bass slam, midrange romance and spacious ambience. Love, love, love it!


----------



## Khragon

Nice, I'm planning to order the Aeteur on the 10th to pair with Glenn 300B, just the teak though and not the fancy black wood


----------



## Hansotek

Khragon said:


> Nice, I'm planning to order the Aeteur on the 10th to pair with Glenn 300B, just the teak though and not the fancy black wood



I've heard like four different woods on the Auteur, they were all really terrific. Teak is a fantastic tone wood. I actually have a pair of teak cups on an old D2000 that I modded, and they really made those Denons sing!


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> After I finish UT's amp I will start building a EL3N amp for me.
> It will be the same as @whirlwind amp but with craziness. All DH labs 99.99% pure silver wire in the audio paths.
> I am not a wire person but figured I would go all out with this amp.



That's not crazy, you'll need Duelund CAST silver coupling caps and custom silver output transformers before you can approach lunacy!


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> @ru4music  you will be getting your amp real soon. I mean reaaaaal soooon.



Yes, I'm starting to get excited.


----------



## whirlwind

Khragon said:


> Nice, I'm planning to order the Aeteur on the 10th to pair with Glenn 300B, just the teak though and not the fancy black wood



I love the look of the teak wood.


----------



## UntilThen

Arnold aka @lukeap69  please get out your Nikon slr and shoot some nice pictures of your Darna and post it up here. I want front, top and back views.


----------



## Hansotek

Oh, are we taking pictures now? If anybody wants some really pretty pictures of their EL3N, you just feel free to send that my way anytime you like.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> Oh, are we taking pictures now? If anybody wants some really pretty pictures of their EL3N, you just feel free to send that my way anytime you like.



Ah ha. You are the man indeed for producing them. I don't find any nice pics of Glenn's OTL and EL3N amps on the internet. We need some nice and clear photos.


----------



## UntilThen

This one is quite good so credit to the one who took it but it's not the Glenn OTL 6 x 6BL7 amp I'm looking for. 


 

This is quite good indeed but need to focus on the EL3N amp alone. This is Joe's better pictures.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Ah ha. You are the man indeed for producing them. I don't find any nice pics of Glenn's OTL and EL3N amps on the internet. We need some nice and clear photos.



I shoot a ton of audiophile stuff... product photos, review pics, show reports - all kinds of stuff. Here's a tiny sampling of a few products:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nudzq4yh20l1va0/AAArdYOpMcq0vPVjhfl57gNNa?dl=0

Happy to shoot any of these, just so I can give them a listen for a couple of days!


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> I shoot a ton of audiophile stuff... product photos, review pics, show reports - all kinds of stuff. Here's a tiny sampling of a few products:
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nudzq4yh20l1va0/AAArdYOpMcq0vPVjhfl57gNNa?dl=0
> 
> Happy to shoot any of these, just so I can give them a listen for a couple of days!



I know. I saw your profile. That's why I said you're the man for the job. 

Very nice pictures in the dropbox. Impressive.


----------



## UntilThen

I am lazy these days. I shoot with my Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge camera. My Nikon has not been touched for a while. The smartphone camera is quite good though and convenient.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> I am lazy these days. I shoot with my Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge camera. My Nikon has not been touched for a while. The smartphone camera is quite good though and convenient.



Yeah, there is a lot to be said for the convenience of a mobile phone cam over the endless tweakfest of dealing with lighting rigs, lenses, settings, handling large files, developing the shots in Lightroom and then retouching them in Photoshop. Shooting on a DSLR looks great, but it takes up a lot of time.


----------



## leftside

Previously I'd never liked the camera on the iPhones, but the iPhone 8+ camera (and I presume the X) is amazing. Also for video. My mate has the S7 and that also takes great photos. Amazing what these devices can do today. Seems a disservice to call them "phones".


----------



## UntilThen

Nothing like a professional photo shoot though. It's well worth the effort.

Here's another attempt by the S7 Edge. Not too shabby at all.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Nothing like a professional photo shoot though. It's well worth the effort.
> 
> Here's another attempt by the S7 Edge. Not too shabby at all.


Yeah - gave up on my Nikon SLR - too complicated and bulky for me. I have an iPhone 6+ and it takes very good pictures.
The other day I called Canon customer service re a question about my ink jet printer. Among other things the rep told me to install their Canon app on my phone. Now I can take a picture and print it out right away, not even going near my printer.
Polaroid (remember??) - here I come!


----------



## 2359glenn

I am listening to @ru4music EL3N amp now. I love the sound of the EL3N amp.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I am listening to @ru4music EL3N amp now. I love the sound of the EL3N amp.



Now I really want to listen to one too. I bet there aren't any EL3N amp in this part of the world.


----------



## 2359glenn

Maybe way up north in Singapore the closest I know of.


----------



## 2359glenn

UT I will be building your amp next week.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Maybe way up north in Singapore the closest I know of.



Ok. I'm going to Singapore next Aug so will see if I can check out Jet.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> UT I will be building your amp next week.



Great ! No rush Glenn even though I'm looking forward to it. Too many gear to occupy me at the moment. As much as I love toying with the new Yamaha AV receiver and Pioneer SACD player, I still enjoy listening to music on headphones. 

Yggdrasil and Ragnarok keeping me happy with the headphones for now. Yggy is a very revealing dac. I love the details it's churning out. I think it will pair very well with the OTL amp.

Don't forget my adapters Glenn. 

ECC31 to 6SN7
6F8G to 6SN7
FDD20 to 6SN7

I'm so looking forward to rolling in the tubes. Staring at my brand new Cetron 6336b graphite plates tubes now.


----------



## 2359glenn

I am listening to Pink Floyd dark side of the moon incredible.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I am listening to Pink Floyd dark side of the moon incredible.



Holy doly, didn't know you like Pink Floyd. I love Dark Side of the Moon !!! .... and Wish You Were Here.

Are you using HD800 right now? I still love HD800 despite using Eikon and Atticus a lot more now.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Arnold aka @lukeap69  please get out your Nikon slr and shoot some nice pictures of your Darna and post it up here. I want front, top and back views.


Matt, I shoot Canon. At least I used to. I am too busy (/lazy) to do a proper setup and too lazy to disassemble Darna. She resides under my study/work desk keeping my legs warm at night. Besides, Glenn's photos from the past are good and gives the Back to the Future feeling.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Maybe way up north in Singapore the closest I know of.



Indeed there’s one in Singapore which was previously mine


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Ok. I'm going to Singapore next Aug so will see if I can check out Jet.


Jason has a lot of tube amps. You will be spoiled listening with those. @jelt2359


----------



## Rossliew

lukeap69 said:


> Jason has a lot of tube amps. You will be spoiled listening with those. @jelt2359



Indeed he does but the one that most gets my attention would be his Diy T2/009 electrostatic combo


----------



## UntilThen

Looks like the 2nd shift has come online. 

Arnold that is not the place to keep your tube amp. Up on the desk so you can admire it and it won't harm your tender parts.

So Jason has a lot of amps? Don't worry I'm bias. I will insist my Raggy doll sounds better.   Don't forget I'm attending a local Sydney meet this coming Sat. The Woos, Accuphase and what nots will also be there. Ah the Abyss... the world's ugliest headphone. It's like a medieval head torture device.

Ross, what are you doing? You are selling and buying like a professional trader. I will sell you my Rag so I can get a EL3N amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

I am building Jason another EL3N amp as soon as the Tribute transformers get here. They are taking for ever to
get built. Going to have input transformer and inter stage transformer no coupling capacitor,


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I am building Jason another EL3N amp as soon as the Tribute transformers get here. They are taking for ever to
> get built. Going to have input transformer and inter stage transformer no coupling capacitor,



Then I must pay Jason a visit. Presumably he would get his new EL3N by next Aug. Tribute Transformers from the Netherlands? I would be happy with Lundahl.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Looks like the 2nd shift has come online.
> 
> Arnold that is not the place to keep your tube amp. Up on the desk so you can admire it and it won't harm your tender parts.
> 
> ...



I LOLed on the 2nd shift.

In order to admire Darna, one has to bow down then be amazed!


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> I am building Jason another EL3N amp as soon as the Tribute transformers get here. They are taking for ever to
> get built. Going to have input transformer and inter stage transformer no coupling capacitor,



I believe this will be the ultimate EL3N amp!!!


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Looks like the 2nd shift has come online.
> 
> Arnold that is not the place to keep your tube amp. Up on the desk so you can admire it and it won't harm your tender parts.
> 
> ...



This is the ban


lukeap69 said:


> I believe this will be the ultimate EL3N amp!!!



If it’s really good I may have to start convincing Jason to sell to me once he’s bored with it


----------



## lukeap69

Rossliew said:


> If it’s really good I may have to start convincing Jason to sell to me once he’s bored with it



Jason and I have been discussing possible name for this amp but I will not reveal as of yet as I do not have the authority. I doubt Jason will get bored with this amp but who knows...


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Jason and I have been discussing possible name for this amp but I will not reveal as of yet as I do not have the authority. I doubt Jason will get bored with this amp but who knows...



How about ScarJo? 

Wait... that's reserved for my EL3N.


----------



## Rossliew

lukeap69 said:


> Jason and I have been discussing possible name for this amp but I will not reveal as of yet as I do not have the authority. I doubt Jason will get bored with this amp but who knows...



Well it may just cause him to sell his other amps instead ...


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> How about ScarJo?
> 
> Wait... that's reserved for my EL3N.



ScarJo the Black Widow? Now, that's a nice name...


----------



## lukeap69

Rossliew said:


> Well it may just cause him to sell his other amps instead ...



Now which one? Jason has a lot of nice tube amps...


----------



## Rossliew

lukeap69 said:


> Now which one? Jason has a lot of nice tube amps...



EC Studio, L2...who knows hehehe


----------



## UntilThen

Ok I've hunt all over the internet and this might be the closest to what I'll be getting..... minus the left tube rectifier socket. 

Whose amp is this?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I am listening to @ru4music EL3N amp now. I love the sound of the EL3N amp.



It is great that you will soon own another one for yourself.

It is almost like having two amps with the different modes.

My Grado RS1 headphones in two tube stage, with nothing in the signal path...sound incredible with guitars and the mids are to die for.

You did a wonderful job in making the amp so you can change modes on the fly , and without even hearing any clicks or pops or any noise at all when you switch modes.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Ok I've hunt all over the internet and this might be the closest to what I'll be getting..... minus the left tube rectifier socket.
> 
> Whose amp is this?




That is a real beauty!


----------



## 2359glenn

UT
Here are some pics of OTL amps with six 6BL7 sockets

First is Jason's over the top OTL.  Originally made it for someone in AU but they sold it to Jason before I shipped it.

 
I think this is Darna


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> It is great that you will soon own another one for yourself.
> 
> It is almost like having two amps with the different modes.
> 
> ...



Listening to @ru4music  EL3N amp with Audio Technica closed back phones 32 ohms that Lucy bought me.
makes me realize I have to get UT's amp done so I can have my EL3N amp built before Christmas.
Listening to Joe Bonamassa and Pink Floyd   Sounds crazy good.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Listening to @ru4music  EL3N amp with Audio Technica closed back phones 32 ohms that Lucy bought me.
> makes me realize I have to get UT's amp done so I can have my EL3N amp built before Christmas.
> Listening to Joe Bonamassa and Pink Floyd   Sounds crazy good.



The EL3N amp sounds great with low impedance cans.

My wife and I went to a wedding last night, had a few cocktails and some fine food.
When we got home I listened to Joe Bonamassa's 2CD set, "Live From Nowhere In Particular", before I went to bed.


----------



## Khragon

I'm curious the sonic differences between transformer couple vs capacitor couples? Do you mind enlighten us Glenn?


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> UT
> Here are some pics of OTL amps with six 6BL7 sockets
> 
> First is Jason's over the top OTL.  Originally made it for someone in AU but they sold it to Jason before I shipped it.
> I think this is Darna



Yep that is Darna. What a beauty!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> makes me realize I have to get UT's amp done so I can have my EL3N amp built before Christmas.



Sounds like a plan. We will toast each other with our new amps on Christmas Day.   Thanks for those OTL photos. I will enjoy the OTL amp first before I contemplate EL3N amp.

I can't wait to try these brand new Cetrons. They are BIG.


----------



## 2359glenn

Khragon said:


> I'm curious the sonic differences between transformer couple vs capacitor couples? Do you mind enlighten us Glenn?



Without getting into technical stuff transformer coupling is superior to cap coupling. But the transformers have to be high quality.
That means expensive. Lundahl makes high quality input and interstage transformers but it brings the cost of the amp way up.
And the amp becomes much bigger to accommodate all the transformers.
Then comes diminishing returns is it that better then high quality caps? 
I haven't built one due to cost at least not since the 1970s then I was more concerned with power then SQ. Then went to SS for high power.


----------



## Rossliew

Versatility is great but would it theoretically be better to build one amp that does its best for low impedance headphones and another for high impedance one?

Would this be practically possible, @2359glenn ?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Sounds like a plan. We will toast each other with our new amps on Christmas Day.   Thanks for those OTL photos. I will enjoy the OTL amp first before I contemplate EL3N amp.
> 
> I can't wait to try these brand new Cetrons. They are BIG.



They get extremely hot too but especially with the 5998 switch on they drive low impedance cans well.
That  most OTLs cant do.


----------



## 2359glenn

Rossliew said:


> Versatility is great but would it theoretically be better to build one amp that does its best for low impedance headphones and another for high impedance one?
> 
> Would this be practically possible, @2359glenn ?



I have built a 300B amp that has a impedance switch 32 ohm and 120 ohm can do this with the EL3N amp also essentially the same output transformer.
Didn't think it made a big difference on the high impedance cans.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> I have built a 300B amp that has a impedance switch 32 ohm and 120 ohm can do this with the EL3N amp also essentially the same output transformer.
> Didn't think it made a big difference on the high impedance cans.



Hmm...if i still can recall correctly, the EL3N i had before sounded pretty decent with both low and high impedance headphones. However, the OTL i had before that had an especially excellent synergy with my Grados..


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> They get extremely hot too but especially with the 5998 switch on they drive low impedance cans well.
> That  most OTLs cant do.



I will have LCD-2f and HE-560 to road test it. I'll see if there's a difference between the 6336 vs 6AS7 or 6BL7s. Looks like I'll be flicking the 5998 switch a lot. 

This amp is really intriguing. So many possibilities.


----------



## 2359glenn (Nov 5, 2017)

you can also use four 6AS7s or four 5998 in this amp for low impedance cans.
AS long as the total filament draw is not over 13 amps.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Listening to @ru4music  EL3N amp with Audio Technica closed back phones 32 ohms that Lucy bought me.
> makes me realize I have to get UT's amp done so I can have my EL3N amp built before Christmas.
> Listening to Joe Bonamassa and Pink Floyd   Sounds crazy good.



Glenn, how would you compare the dual stage (four tube) vs. single stage (two tube) modes when listening with that headphone?


----------



## ru4music

Well it looks like I'll be getting my GEL3N amp this week!   I still need to test test my tubes, find a spot for it and name it. @2359glenn says it sounds fantastic and he will be boxing it up as soon as he can pry himself away from listening to it


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I will have LCD-2f and HE-560 to road test it. I'll see if there's a difference between the 6336 vs 6AS7 or 6BL7s. Looks like I'll be flicking the 5998 switch a lot.
> 
> This amp is really intriguing. So many possibilities.



And for low Z cans, you might want to pick up a pair of 6528. These appear to be very similar to the 6336, but with a higher mu. The result is an output impedance even lower than the 6336....


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> The EL3N amp sounds great with low impedance cans.
> 
> My wife and I went to a wedding last night, had a few cocktails and some fine food.
> When we got home I listened to Joe Bonamassa's 2CD set, "Live From Nowhere In Particular", before I went to bed.



whirlwind, do have a recommendation from Joe Bonamassa's catalog?  I would like to order one or two of his best performances.


----------



## 2359glenn

It is up to the source  am using at the time to use single tube the source has to have a high output.
Mostly I have been using 2 tube mode to test the entire amp.
2 tube has more slam 1 tube is more gentile.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> And for low Z cans, you might want to pick up a pair of 6528. These appear to be very similar to the 6336, but with a higher mu. The result is an output impedance even lower than the 6336....



I just check ebay and there's not a single 6528. I must turn to @attmci the vintage collector.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Well it looks like I'll be getting my GEL3N amp this week!  *I still need* *to* test test my tubes, find a spot for it and *name it.* @2359glenn says it sounds fantastic and he will be boxing it up as soon as he can pry himself away from listening to it



Scarlett remember?


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> It is up to the source  am using at the time to use single tube the source has to have a high output.
> Mostly I have been using 2 tube mode to test the entire amp.
> 2 tube has more slam 1 tube is more gentile.



That reminds me of a question I wanted to ask you.  My Matrix X-Sabre DAC has 2.2 Vrms on the RCA outputs and 4.4 Vrms on the XLR outputs, do you know what an XLR (DAC) to RCA (amp) cable will do to the voltage?  I'm thinking that the higher voltage swing (gain) of the XLR out may be beneficial for single stage (1 tube) mode.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> whirlwind, do have a recommendation from Joe Bonamassa's catalog?  I would like to order one or two of his best performances.



Here I like this


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Scarlett remember?



SO LET IT BE WRITTEN... SO LET IT BE DONE.... Hence forth my GEL3N shall be known to all as "*Scarlett*"!


----------



## UntilThen

Great name for a stunning looking EL3N amp. Very appropriate.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Great name for a stunning looking EL3N amp. Very appropriate.



Thanks for assisting on the naming!  Oh and BTW UT, that's "Miss Scarlett" to you; I'm trying to protect her fragile innocence


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Here I like this




Wow, that just rocks!  That music is just ozzzzzzzzzing with soul.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> you can also use four 6AS7s or four 5998 in this amp for low impedance cans.
> AS long as the total filament draw is not over 13 amps.



Ok I will remember total is 13amps. So no 6 x 6AS7 to smoke the house. 

I have 4 x 5998 ready. I bought them new. I want to see the Southern cross light up with these.


----------



## ru4music

Some tube porn for everyone!  Scarlett (GEL3N) finished and just before Glenn (@2359glenn) seals her underbelly before shipping:


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I just check ebay and there's not a single 6528. I must turn to @attmci the vintage collector.


Hey, I am not Stavros. The gentleman recommended the tube has a huge collection as well. 


UntilThen said:


> I just check ebay and there's not a single 6528. I must turn to @attmci the vintage collector.


----------



## attmci (Nov 5, 2017)

delete.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Ok I've hunt all over the internet and this might be the closest to what I'll be getting..... minus the left tube rectifier socket.
> 
> Whose amp is this?



That would be my amp.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> That would be my amp.



Wow that is so nice !!!

I regretted not asking for the extra 5volt tube rectifier option.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Some tube porn for everyone!  Scarlett (GEL3N) finished and just before Glenn (@2359glenn) seals her underbelly before shipping:



That is a very sexy underbelly. I like it.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> That is a very sexy underbelly. I like it.


One nice tube close to Matt.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5998-Tung-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649


----------



## myphone (Nov 5, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I just check ebay and there's not a single 6528. I must turn to @attmci the vintage collector.



There is one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-New-R...771460?hash=item3af6720804:g:bQYAAOSwTmtZ~iY9

There were 3 used ones for $ 75 last week. Apparently, they were gone.


----------



## Lord Raven

Mate, you're late  It's gone!!

Ulysses next to Euforia, looks like this summer is going to be hot. Last time we spoke, you had only HD800 and now 5. Mate, I lost track. I wish to own HD800 alone.
Haha I am sure Klipsch will be worst, but what can I do, I love horns 



UntilThen said:


> I will offer you $50 for the GEC 6as7g.
> 
> I'm going to clear up my study today. All the tubes will be boxed, marked and carefully stored away till Ulysses comes home. Right now all I have for head-fi is Yggdrasil and Ragnarok with 5 headphones.
> 
> Don't listen to Focals too much. They will give you tinnitus.


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> There is one:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-New-R...771460?hash=item3af6720804:g:bQYAAOSwTmtZ~iY9
> 
> There were 3 used ones for $ 75 last week. Apparently, they were gone.



Myphone where have you been?  Good to hear from you.

Pity there's only one and I have to ask seller if he will post to Sydney.


----------



## UntilThen

Lord Raven said:


> Mate, you're late  It's gone!!
> 
> Ulysses next to Euforia, looks like this summer is going to be hot. Last time we spoke, you had only HD800 and now 5. Mate, I lost track. I wish to own HD800 alone.
> Haha I am sure Klipsch will be worst, but what can I do, I love horns



Naveed there's no more Euforia. I sold it. I will be left with Ragnarok and Ulysses.

As for summer, I will move the headfi gear to the lounge for aircondition comfort.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> One nice tube close to Matt.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5998-Tung-Sol-NOS-Testing-vacuum-tube-identical-to-Western-Electric-421-A-6AS7G/172959098161?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649



Mate don't ask me to buy anymore 5998. I already have four !!!


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Mate don't ask me to buy anymore 5998. I already have four !!!


Matt, if you got bored with those 5998, you can send a pair up here. I will help you clear up the clutter in your lounge.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Mate don't ask me to buy anymore 5998. I already have four !!!


Clear top Clear top Clear top
buy buy buy


----------



## attmci (Nov 5, 2017)

lukeap69 said:


> Matt, if you got bored with those 5998, you can send a pair up here. I will help you clear up the clutter in your lounge.


Sorry, I misread. I thought you want to clear the 5998 getter film for Matt and call it a WE 421A. LOL


----------



## lukeap69

attmci said:


> Sorry, I misread. I thought you want to clear the 5998 getter film for Matt and call it a WE 421A. LOL


I wish I had the skills.


----------



## UntilThen

What you talking about guys. I will show you clear tops !!!

The Fivre 6BX7 just arrived. Only 3 sadly. As you can see the top is clear because the getter is at the side. That's where the chrome is. Pretty unusual. The Italians do things differently.


----------



## rosgr63

attmci said:


> Hey, I am not Stavros. The gentleman recommended the tube has a huge collection as well.



I read this as not as crazy as me.........

I have 6520's but not 6528's, never used them before.


----------



## rosgr63

ru4music said:


> whirlwind, do have a recommendation from Joe Bonamassa's catalog?  I would like to order one or two of his best performances.



Joe is the expert but I do like Blues of Desperation, Different Shades of Blue, Driving Towards the Daylight, Muddy Wolf at Red Rocks


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> I read this as not as crazy as me.........



Stavros, you're not crazy. You are passionate.


----------



## rosgr63

I wish Matt, I do........


----------



## UntilThen

I think I'm done buying tubes. I'm putting aside money for one more headphone tube amp next year. This hobby is so much fun when you get a new tube amp.


----------



## whirlwind

Khragon said:


> I'm curious the sonic differences between transformer couple vs capacitor couples? Do you mind enlighten us Glenn?





ru4music said:


> whirlwind, do have a recommendation from Joe Bonamassa's catalog?  I would like to order one or two of his best performances.




I have his whole discography, and I very much like them all.  Blues Deluxe has always been one of my favorite albums.

I usually will recommend "Live From Nowhere In Particular"...it was released in 2008 and has some of his best recordings from that point in his career.

If you like this album, then I would say you will pretty much like all of his stuff....if you do not like this...then you more than likely will not enjoy most of his stuff.


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> Some tube porn for everyone!  Scarlett (GEL3N) finished and just before Glenn (@2359glenn) seals her underbelly before shipping:




How wonderful is that. Gotta love point to point wiring.

You are really going to enjoy this amp.

A big congrats to you.


----------



## rnros (Nov 6, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Wow that is so nice !!!
> 
> I regretted not asking for the extra 5volt tube rectifier option.



Thanks!

SS vs tube rectifier, tough option to decide, both offer advantages.
The 1641 is the best of the 5 or 6 rectifiers I have tried for the 6336B,
with the others, the 6336B was stumbling a bit on dense/complex orchestral passages.
(Still have to try the Russian 5C8S.)
My OTL does not have the 5998 switch option, but as it is, the 6336B performs above
the other power tubes I have tried, especially low end dimension and control.
However, I do not have any of the expensive power tube options to compare,
so I'll be looking forward to your power tube comparisons with your new GOTL.  : )

Edit: OTOH, obsessions aside, with the GOTL you can have a great sounding amp
with $70 worth of tubes. ('50s 5AW4, '40s 6C8G, 4X '80s JAN 6080WC)
And I'm sure with some of Glenn's tube finds, you can spend less than that!


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> What you talking about guys. I will show you clear tops !!!
> 
> The Fivre 6BX7 just arrived. Only 3 sadly. As you can see the top is clear because the getter is at the side. That's where the chrome is. Pretty unusual. The Italians do things differently.



RCA-manufactured 6BX7 also have clear tops and side getters.

As yours have halo getters, I would assume they were manufactured around 1960. Below is an older version, two bottom rectangular getters with mica shields.


----------



## UntilThen (Nov 6, 2017)

rnros said:


> Thanks!
> 
> SS vs tube rectifier, tough option to decide, both offer advantages.
> The 1641 is the best of the 5 or 6 rectifiers I have tried for the 6336B,
> ...



mros, thanks for the feedback. Responses such as this will benefit everyone.

Most of my power tubes were bought when I had Elise and Euforia. I have gotten to know their sound signatures well over a 2 year period. gec 6as7g, bendix 6080wb, gec 6080, mullard 6080, 5998, 7236, rca 6as7g, svetlana 6H13c, rca 6080, ge 6as7ga, chatham 6520, chatham 6as7g. They all have their unique, distinctive tone. Do I have favourites? You bet. 

Without comparing, I too could love and enjoy a pair of economical RCA 6080. However, like red wine, once you compare, you will discern that they differ more than just the different shades of the  colour red.  You will also start to form opinions and pick your favourites. Not everyone is alike. So opinions will differ. Tubes will also sound their best for different genre of music and the tempo. I find it hard to categorically state that a gec 6as7g is better than a 5998. It really depends on what I listen to and the partnering source and headphones. One is silky smooth and enjoyable while the other is excitable, energetic and dynamic.

Amongst the power tubes, I have my clear favourites. They are gec 6as7g, bendix 6080wb, gec 6080 and 5998. Unfortunately these are also the most expensive.

Tubes will also sound different from one tube amp to another. I have heard the gec 6as7g on Euforia and La Figaro 339. When you've listen long enough, you will discern the subtle difference. Sometimes the difference is more than subtle.

It is for the above statement reason, that I am eager to hear those tubes in my forth coming Glenn OTL. I've tried 2 x c3g and 4 x 6BL7 in Elise and Euforia but those amps weren't designed with those tubes in mind. I've no doubt that a custom made and tuned Glenn OTL amp, will sound different and superior with 2 x c3g and 6 x 6BL7. Well I will find out for myself.

On the same token, I pioneered the use of 6 x EL3Ns in Elise. 2 as drivers and 4 as power tubes. These tubes in Elise that is not designed for it, sounded warm and lush, have an expansive soundstage and a very rewarding bass. I have no doubt that a very well designed Glenn EL3N amp with the option switch of pentode and triode, will sound very much different. Hence I'm very eager to hear a Glenn EL3N too.


----------



## UntilThen (Nov 6, 2017)

gibosi said:


> RCA-manufactured 6BX7 also have clear tops and side getters.
> 
> As yours have halo getters, I would assume they were manufactured around 1960. Below is an older version, two bottom rectangular getters with mica shields.



Thanks Gibosi. Your tube knowledge is invaluable to the community. With time, I might get to know the tone of the different brands of 6BL7 and 6BX7. That is if they are different and not just rebrands.


----------



## attmci (Nov 6, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Thanks Gibosi. Your tube knowledge is invaluable to the community. Well time, I might get to know the tone of the different brands of 6BL7 and 6BX7. That is if they are different and not just rebrands.



You probably already know that based on your elise experience. You may want to add some WE 421A to your collection.

You may also want to join the bid for your future amp (I know you don't like ss rectifier) 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...830105&hash=item3af611a851:g:u8sAAOSwry1Z7SiP


----------



## ru4music

rosgr63 said:


> Joe is the expert but I do like Blues of Desperation, Different Shades of Blue, Driving Towards the Daylight, Muddy Wolf at Red Rocks


Thanks, I will look into these titles!


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> I have his whole discography, and I very much like them all.  Blues Deluxe has always been one of my favorite albums.
> 
> I usually will recommend "Live From Nowhere In Particular"...it was released in 2008 and has some of his best recordings from that point in his career.
> 
> If you like this album, then I would say you will pretty much like all of his stuff....if you do not like this...then you more than likely will not enjoy most of his stuff.



I pretty sure I'll like it as I have streamed some of his music videos posted by people on this thread!  Thanks again to all for the "recommend"s


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> What you talking about guys. I will show you clear tops !!!
> 
> The Fivre 6BX7 just arrived. Only 3 sadly. As you can see the top is clear because the getter is at the side. That's where the chrome is. Pretty unusual. The Italians do things differently.


Hi UT,

ATM I am enjoying my 1953 Foton Ribbed anode 6N8S (5SN7) tubes that also have side getters.





These tubes do not have the visual flair of the Fivre tubes and are more industrial looking (think armored tank), but sound very good and are also very inexpensive - less than $20/pair including shipping.

I always thought that the side getter thing was a space saving measure to make the tubes smaller. On the other hand there are standard size and tall tubes with side getters as well...

Have never come across anything about certain designs sounding better, be it the placement of the getter, or color (silver, brown, blackish) of the getter flash. 

Historical tidbit:  In 1937, the Soviet Union purchased a tube assembly line from RCA, including production licenses and initial staff training, and installed it in the St Petersburg Svetlana plant.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> You probably already know that based on your elise experience. You may want to add some WE 421A to your collection.
> 
> You may also want to join the bid for your future amp (I know you don't like ss rectifier)
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...830105&hash=item3af611a851:g:u8sAAOSwry1Z7SiP



Attcmi I'm glad you are not my purchasing officer. My wallet have a allergy to Western Electric tubes.

When I had Elise, I only had 4 GE 6BL7gta.

And how do you know I won't like ss rectifier.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy I don't understand the logic of having the getters at the side. There's not much space there. The right spot for the getters is at the top.


----------



## mordy (Nov 6, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Mordy I don't understand the logic of having the getters at the side. There's not much space there. The right spot for the getters is at the top.


Here are two RCA 6BL7 tubes from my stash:





The shortie is the side getter tube - considerably smaller


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Mordy I don't understand the logic of having the getters at the side. There's not much space there. The right spot for the getters is at the top.



Actually it is better with them on the side. The side of the tube gets hotter allowing them to work when they are hot getting more gas out of the tube.
They still work when they get hot.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Actually it is better with them on the side. The side of the tube gets hotter allowing them to work when they are hot getting more gas out of the tube.
> They still work when they get hot.



Now the world will descend on the side getters. 

There are some RCA side getters on ebay. With round, square, D or horseshoe getters.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Here are two RCA 6BL7 tubes from my stash:
> 
> 
> 
> The shortie is the side getter tube - considerably smaller



Yes, and the taller one with top getter and three mica is very likely a Sylvania.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Now the world will descend on the side getters.
> 
> There are some RCA side getters on ebay. With round, square, D or horseshoe getters.



I have some and I like them. They are short tubes with the narrow black base, they have the side getters, mine are round getters.
Sound nice. The ones I have are 6BX7, I don't have any RCA 6BL7

There is a thread that shows some nice pics of some different constructions of the tubes, and how to tell the brands.....gibosi knows all of them real well
Everybody made these tubes for each other....RCA, GE, Sylvania, I believe Tung Sol


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Yes, and the taller one with top getter and three mica is very likely a Sylvania.


Hi Gibosi,

I see that I have to be very careful what I say - should have said "Here are two RCA labeled tubes" lol.
I am sure you are right - been awhile since I played these tubes. Got some two dozen different ones; many from the old 99c stores on eBay.
For some reason these tubes seem to be more cross-branded than others. The prize goes to a Tung Sol labeled tube with the telltale GE sand blasted dots.


----------



## mordy (Nov 6, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi Gibosi,
> 
> I see that I have to be very careful what I say - should have said "Here are two RCA labeled tubes" lol.
> I am sure you are right - been awhile since I played these tubes. Got some two dozen different ones; many from the old 99c stores on eBay.
> For some reason these tubes seem to be more cross-branded than others. The prize goes to a Tung Sol labeled tube with the telltale GE sand blasted dots.


Here is a stash of 5998 tubes - ending in 30 min:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/302507419190?ul_noapp=true


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Here is a stash of 5998 tubes - ending in 30 min:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/302507419190?ul_noapp=true


Don't buy these weak 5998s.


The min. Gm value is 10000 and spec is 15000.  The results are as follows:

Tube #1                      10500/10500

Tube #2                      11500/11500

Tube #3                      10500/10500

Tube #4                      10000/10750

Tube #5                      11500/10500

__________________

Here is the old 6bl7 thread. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6bl7-tube-users.806043/

Also a lot of info. @ the 6as7g thread.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi Gibosi,
> 
> I see that I have to be very careful what I say - should have said "Here are two RCA labeled tubes" lol.
> I am sure you are right - been awhile since I played these tubes. Got some two dozen different ones; many from the old 99c stores on eBay.
> For some reason these tubes seem to be more cross-branded than others. The prize goes to a Tung Sol labeled tube with the telltale GE sand blasted dots.



It appears that among American manufacturers, RCA and Tung-Sol did not begin to manufacture 6BL7 / 6BX7 until around 1960. Before that time, both RCA and Tung-Sol sourced their tubes from GE and Sylvania.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Don't buy these weak 5998s.
> 
> 
> The min. Gm value is 10000 and spec is 15000.  The results are as follows:
> ...


Hi attmci,

Thanks for pointing this out - did not look that closely at the auction. -Out of curiosity (and since many of my tubes were bought used or not tested), what would be the practical result of using a tube that just passes the minimum for being acceptable? Would it last less? Less volume?

I seem to remember that some people did not put too much emphasis on measured values. Personally, I can't remember wearing out a tube -  lost 3-4 tubes over the years due to breakage from dropping them, and another 2-3 lost their vacuum being stored and died the white death....

Come to think of it, it could be that a couple of dual triodes with very mismatched values between one triode and the other would throw off the centering of the soundstage. ( I would move my listening chair right or left or use the balance control lol)

However, at this stage I am mainly using NOS tubes. BTW, the Fotons don't break from being dropped accidentally.....


----------



## attmci (Nov 6, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> 
> Thanks for pointing this out - did not look that closely at the auction. -Out of curiosity (and since many of my tubes were bought used or not tested), what would be the practical result of using a tube that just passes the minimum for being acceptable? Would it last less? Less volume?
> 
> ...



You will notice when a tube is dying. I trust a tube tester, and try to get rid of tubes which test below acceptable level. You can also find leaking, short tubes etc. before install them in your valuable amp.

Oh, Glenn had a 300B gone bad sometimes ago.  Generally, driver tubes last much longer than power tubes.

I cannot believe those 5998 tubes were sold for almost $300. On the other hand, the seller is very honest about the status of these tubes.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> What you talking about guys. I will show you clear tops !!!
> 
> The Fivre 6BX7 just arrived. Only 3 sadly. As you can see the top is clear because the getter is at the side. That's where the chrome is. Pretty unusual. The Italians do things differently.



I had read this a couple of times: https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/an_overview_of_italian_vacuum_tube_manufacturers.html

I still don't understand what the "M8" code on a SICTE rectifier tube indicates. Oskari? I see you are here.


----------



## jelt2359

UntilThen said:


> mros, thanks for the feedback. Responses such as this will benefit everyone.
> 
> Most of my power tubes were bought when I had Elise and Euforia. I have gotten to know their sound signatures well over a 2 year period. gec 6as7g, bendix 6080wb, gec 6080, mullard 6080, 5998, 7236, rca 6as7g, svetlana 6H13c, rca 6080, ge 6as7ga, chatham 6520, chatham 6as7g. They all have their unique, distinctive tone. Do I have favourites? You bet.
> 
> ...



Confused, so are you getting the GEL3N or the GOTL?


----------



## whirlwind

Jason, your collection of gear is phenomenal.


----------



## UntilThen

jelt2359 said:


> Confused, so are you getting the GEL3N or the GOTL?



I'm getting a GOTL. Glenn is starting the build this week.

GEL3N next year.


----------



## UntilThen

I lost out on an auction for 12 brand new RCA 6bx7 yesterday. With 4 secs to go I was the leading bid at US$126. I had a max high bid of US$150. When it ended, it sold for US$197.

I'll be satisfied with the tubes I have presently:-

10 x 6BL7gt and gta
9 x 6bx7


----------



## Oskari

attmci said:


> I had read this a couple of times: https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/an_overview_of_italian_vacuum_tube_manufacturers.html
> 
> I still don't understand what the "M8" code on a SICTE rectifier tube indicates. Oskari? I see you are here.


The link was interesting but doesn't seem to offer any help with the code. Unfortunately I don't have much to offer either.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> mros, thanks for the feedback. Responses such as this will benefit everyone.
> 
> Most of my power tubes were bought when I had Elise and Euforia. I have gotten to know their sound signatures well over a 2 year period. gec 6as7g, bendix 6080wb, gec 6080, mullard 6080, 5998, 7236, rca 6as7g, svetlana 6H13c, rca 6080, ge 6as7ga, chatham 6520, chatham 6as7g. They all have their unique, distinctive tone. Do I have favourites? You bet.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the additional overview information. I appreciate both the useful information and the solid perspective.

Priority at the moment is finding high impedance dynamic headphones that hit my personal preferences.
ZMF has rekindled my interest with the Auteur.

Very curious about the EL3N sound, so looking forward to trying them in the GOTL. Waiting for adapters.
GEL3N? Sure, hopeful, but Glenn may need to hire a helper to meet increasing demand!


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I had read this a couple of times: https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/an_overview_of_italian_vacuum_tube_manufacturers.html
> 
> I still don't understand what the "M8" code on a SICTE rectifier tube indicates. Oskari? I see you are here.



Please explain why the sergeant earn 25 liras and the corporal earns only 3 liras?


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I think I'm done buying tubes. I'm putting aside money for one more headphone tube amp next year. This hobby is so much fun when you get a new tube amp.



Yes. And then there are the new headphones...  : )


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> Thanks for the additional overview information. I appreciate both the useful information and the solid perspective.
> 
> Priority at the moment is finding high impedance dynamic headphones that hit my personal preferences.
> ZMF has rekindled my interest with the Auteur.
> ...



You can't use the EL3N in the OTL
Have to be dual triodes.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> You can't use the EL3N in the OTL
> Have to be dual triodes.



With adapters, using two EL3N per socket?


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Yes. And then there are the new headphones...  : )





rnros said:


> Yes. And then there are the new headphones...  : )



I already have 4 headphones that cost more than a thousand each. Anymore headphones and I will have to explain to her majesty.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> With adapters, using two EL3N per socket?



With so many driver options, do you really need 2 EL3Ns as drivers?


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> Thanks for the additional overview information. I appreciate both the useful information and the solid perspective.
> 
> Priority at the moment is finding high impedance dynamic headphones that hit my personal preferences.
> ZMF has rekindled my interest with the Auteur.
> ...




The ZMF Auteur would be great match with your new amp.

Sounds like you are really liking the ZMF sound.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> With so many driver options, do you really need 2 EL3Ns as drivers?



No, I have more drivers than I could ever possibly use, or remember to use.
Just a way to get a sense of the EL3N sound.


----------



## 2359glenn (Nov 7, 2017)

They wont work at all in the OTL
You can use the dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter in place of the 6SN7


----------



## rnros (Nov 7, 2017)

whirlwind said:


> The ZMF Auteur would be great match with your new amp.
> 
> Sounds like you are really liking the ZMF sound.



No, not yet.
Even with the positive reviews for the Eikon, I have been reluctant to make another headphone purchase.
The release of the Auteur design and early reviews have me interested. Might be the one to try.


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> No, not yet.
> Even with the positive reviews for the Eikon, I have been reluctant to make another headphone purchase.
> The release of the Auteur design and early reviews has me interested. Might be the one to try.




Hell, I can not keep up with the thread, lol

I thought I was quoting UT.

I thought he was going for his third ZMF headphone...LOL!

But, it is a wonderful match for your amp too rnros


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> They wont work at all in the OTL
> You can use the dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter in place of the 6SN7



The dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter. OK, thanks Glenn.


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> *Hell, I can not keep up with the thread, lol*
> 
> I thought I was quoting UT.
> 
> ...



No chit, me either! LOL   And I expect it may get even worse (from a low thread poster like my self) once I receive my GEL3N amp!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Hell, I can not keep up with the thread, lol
> 
> I thought I was quoting UT.
> 
> ...



I have only 4 stands. So no room for another headphone....


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> I already have 4 headphones that cost more than a thousand each. Anymore headphones and I will have to explain to her majesty.



Matt do you mean you don't already report?????

You're very lucky.........


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I have only 4 stands. So no room for another headphone....


At least the headphones are color coded....


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Matt do you mean you don't already report?????
> 
> You're very lucky.........



I'm James Bond. I report to no one. This Christmas I want my eggnog shaken, not stirred.


----------



## UntilThen

Despite my love for the woodies (the other 3 wooden headphones) I still love HD800 very much. There's great synergy with Ragnarok. It will be the first headphone that I will try with Ulysses.

Yggdrasil > Ulysses > Sennheiser HD800. A deadly combination me thinks.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> *I'm James Bond.* I report to no one. This Christmas I want my eggnog shaken, not stirred.



It's, "I'm Bond, James Bond."  UT, first it was the Scarlett O'Hara/ Johansson thing, now this!!!   I sure hope you don't have to turn in your secret decoder ring and Walther PPK


----------



## UntilThen

I was wondering what a Walther PKK is until I do a google search


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Matt do you mean you don't already report?????
> 
> You're very lucky.........



Yeah, no kidding.
I could not imagine!


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, no kidding.
> I could not imagine!



Hi Joe,
"I'm a yes dear you're right again as always" person............


----------



## whirlwind

Hi Starvos,

I hear you. In my 37 years of marriage, I have won only a few battles, but still lost the war!

I don't even have the energy to argue any more.

I love her to death, she has kept me in line for the most part and we have been able to enjoy music together for a lot of years, so all is good here.

We go to three of four concerts a year and have a good time, always.

Be going to see Joe Bonamassa in Cleveland Ohio at the Conner Theatre on Nov. 25th.
Then going to the Rock 'N' Roll Hall Of Fame on the 26th....we can't wait....also hope to be enjoying a couple of nice meals while we are there.


----------



## rosgr63

Joe like me we've learned our lesson the hard way!
It took me over 20 years to realise I was loosing the war........
Now I know too well.

I'm jealous these concerts sound fantastic, enjoy my friend!
Does the *Boss* allow any "refreshments"?


----------



## UntilThen

Stavros and Joe, I can tell you're family orientated persons, in my interactions with you. That is important for me. I have a loving wife, daughter, son and a cute little doggy who tolerated my current passions in hifi, headfi, tvfi, tubefi, carfi and whatever fi that came my way. 

My wife even bought me my 'first' Denon turntable and NAD dac. Daughter bought me the beyer T1. Son bought me an ergonomic chair to sit in. Dog bought me.... nothing.... but he gave me the most loving smile.

.... and I envy you Joe that you're attending lots of live shows. The only live performance I attended with my wife many years ago, is the Phantom of the Opera at the State Theatre. That has been the best music I've heard in my entire life.... period ! So my goal for 2018 is to attend another live performance again. So maybe I'll go and hear Stevie Nicks sing.


----------



## UntilThen

My quote for today... 

'The best things in life are what you already have'. 

So without further ado, I unveil to you my heavily modified Sennheiser HD650. My first serious headphone and it still is today. You can wear this the whole day. It has an agreeable tone and a comfortable weight. Sennheiser deserves a medal for making this. This is the forgotten child amongst my other headphones but it will be put to the test when Ulysses arrives.


----------



## mordy (Nov 9, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Stavros and Joe, I can tell you're family orientated persons, in my interactions with you. That is important for me. I have a loving wife, daughter, son and a cute little doggy who tolerated my current passions in hifi, headfi, tvfi, tubefi, carfi and whatever fi that came my way.
> 
> My wife even bought me my 'first' Denon turntable and NAD dac. Daughter bought me the beyer T1. Son bought me an ergonomic chair to sit in. Dog bought me.... nothing.... but he gave me the most loving smile.
> 
> .... and I envy you Joe that you're attending lots of live shows. The only live performance I attended with my wife many years ago, is the Phantom of the Opera at the State Theatre. That has been the best music I've heard in my entire life.... period ! So my goal for 2018 is to attend another live performance again. So maybe I'll go and hear Stevie Nicks sing.


I am married 10 years longer than whirlwind. My wife totally dislikes the music I listen to, but tolerates my hi fi hobby and does not interfere (unless I play way too loud with the door to my listening room open). She really is not interested in my tube adventures ("Honey - why do you have so many of those glass things?") - her only interest is the family and the grandchildren. We argue here and there, and as you have discovered, she is usually right......
But we get along fine, and if I really really would want a very expensive item she would encourage me to get if she thought it would make me happy.
Ordered a HD650 via Massdrop - should artrive soon.


----------



## rosgr63

You are very lucky.
Every time I want something with glass I get a funny look from five females, six if I include the cat.

BTW try a RAL cable with your HD650 if you can.


----------



## Oskari

rosgr63 said:


> six if I include the cat.


Pure comedy, Stavros.


----------



## UntilThen

Stavros get a dog because the dog will get you water if you teach him. If you teach him well, he will even put on the LP and cue the tonearm and lower it.

I don't know what a RAL cable is but I use a made in Japan Canare cable for my hd650.


----------



## rosgr63

We have two in the family both girls
They love me so they don't care if I buy tubes


----------



## UntilThen

Stavros, you have a picture of Glenn's super OTL in your profile pic. I think that is the only version that accepts 8 x 6sn7 as power tubes. That should sound lovely. I hope you are still using it.


----------



## rosgr63

It's the Super10, a very special amp Glenn gave me as a present sometime ago.
It can use 9 double triodes and a rectifier. 

RAL Realistic Audio Labs.
I have 5 different SE and balanced cables for my HD650's and this is the best one.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 9, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> My quote for today...
> 
> 'The best things in life are what you already have'.
> 
> So without further ado, I unveil to you my heavily modified Sennheiser HD650. My first serious headphone and it still is today. You can wear this the whole day. It has an agreeable tone and a comfortable weight. Sennheiser deserves a medal for making this. This is the forgotten child amongst my other headphones but it will be put to the test when Ulysses arrives.


I have owned this headphone on two different occasions, and I agree, it is a great headphone and very comfortable....It scales up with better gear really nice.  I may own it again someday.







rosgr63 said:


> Joe like me we've learned our lesson the hard way!
> It took me over 20 years to realise I was loosing the war........
> Now I know too well.
> 
> ...



Yes, the *Boss *will allow beverages...she will usually pick Margaritas or a wheat beer...I usually will go for a nice Porter.


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> It's the Super10, a very special amp Glenn gave me as a present sometime ago.
> It can use 9 double triodes and a rectifier.
> 
> RAL Realistic Audio Labs.
> I have 5 different SE and balanced cables for my HD650's and this is the best one.




That  really is a special amp.


----------



## attmci

rosgr63 said:


> It's the Super10, a very special amp Glenn gave me as a present sometime ago.
> It can use 9 double triodes and a rectifier.
> 
> RAL Realistic Audio Labs.
> I have 5 different SE and balanced cables for my HD650's and this is the best one.


This guy?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/revelation-audio-lab-ral-are-they-crooks.283121/page-5


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> This guy?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/revelation-audio-lab-ral-are-they-crooks.283121/page-5



Really ???


----------



## rosgr63

Yes 
I have a HD650 and an I2S cable from RAL


----------



## UntilThen

I am going to the local Sydney meet in 2 hours time, for a whole day and bringing my Yggdrasil, Ragnarok, Eikon and Atticus.

This is the great joy in this hobby for me. Going to a local Can Con and meeting like minded enthusiasts. What I want to hear today is the Abyss, WA5 and Utopia. In the case of Utopia, again... Also would you believe it, I will be hearing a Bottlehead Crack with Speedball for the first time because I've not heard one before. 

Oh there will be lots of headphones and cables there. So wish me luck and much happiness.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> I am going to the local Sydney meet in 2 hours time, for a whole day and bringing my Yggdrasil, Ragnarok, Eikon and Atticus.
> 
> This is the great joy in this hobby for me. Going to a local Can Con and meeting like minded enthusiasts. What I want to hear today is the Abyss, WA5 and Utopia. In the case of Utopia, again... Also would you believe it, I will be hearing a Bottlehead Crack with Speedball for the first time because I've not heard one before.
> 
> Oh there will be lots of headphones and cables there. So wish me luck and much happiness.



Much luck and happiness!  I will be having my own Can Con once Scarlett arrives.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Much luck and happiness!  I will be having my own Can Con once Scarlett arrives.



We should meet up ok? Get Scarlett and Ulysses together when the time comes.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> We should meet up ok? Get Scarlett and Ulysses together when the time comes.





A thought to ponder; if Scarlett and Ulysses were to meet  marry   and produce offspring what kind of amp would they produce?   (lol)


----------



## UntilThen

It will produce a 300b so make sure we meet up.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I am going to the local Sydney meet in 2 hours time, for a whole day and bringing my Yggdrasil, Ragnarok, Eikon and Atticus.
> 
> This is the great joy in this hobby for me. Going to a local Can Con and meeting like minded enthusiasts. What I want to hear today is the Abyss, WA5 and Utopia. In the case of Utopia, again... Also would you believe it, I will be hearing a Bottlehead Crack with Speedball for the first time because I've not heard one before.
> 
> Oh there will be lots of headphones and cables there. So wish me luck and much happiness.



Don't expect too much from a stock crack with speedball. It needs a lot of mods. However, at its price range, it's a very nice little amp for diy hobby.


----------



## Rossliew

@UntilThen impressions of the meet, please!


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> @UntilThen impressions of the meet, please!



Just came home from the meet. I'll post impressions of the meet on the Can Con Sydney thread later. After I've relax and chill down.... 

Suffice to say that I was impressed with Woo Audio Wa5, Abyss and Utopia. These are the stand out gear for me.


----------



## Rossliew

Time to get new gears


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> Just came home from the meet. I'll post impressions of the meet on the Can Con Sydney thread later. After I've relax and chill down....
> 
> Suffice to say that I was impressed with Woo Audio Wa5, Abyss and Utopia. These are the stand out gear for me.



Sydney, beautiful city, it's been a long time since I was there.
No Can meets then.....

Let us know how you enjoyed it.


----------



## leftside

The Abyss and Utopia are on my "top 3 list of headphones to consider for next year" (along with the LCD-4). A friend of mine is bringing the Utopia to my place next week.

The WA5 was also on my list of headphone amps, but then I heard about the Glenn 300B. Quite a few comparisons on here of the WA5 and the 300B. Some would say the design of the WA5 with 6SN7's and 300B's isn't an ideal design, but it seems everyone who has listened to a WA5 has thoroughly enjoyed it.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Sydney, beautiful city, it's been a long time since I was there.
> No Can meets then.....
> 
> Let us know how you enjoyed it.



Sydney is indeed a beautiful city. Do come for a visit again with Glenn and I would love to meet up with you and show you around. It was a lovely day to attend the meet but as I look outside the clear bright Spring day, I was wondering why I'm indoor. This fascinations with head-fi makes me forget what a beautiful city I live in and that there is so much to do out there. 

I've thoroughly enjoyed myself at the meet. This weekend will go by so quickly as I play host to some friends coming over to my house tomorrow (Sunday) to listen to my sound systems.

Here's a link to my impressions and photos of the Can Con Sydney 7.5 meet.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/can...-7-5-impressions-thread.864868/#post-13843576


----------



## rosgr63

leftside said:


> The Abyss and Utopia are on my "top 3 list of headphones to consider for next year" (along with the LCD-4). A friend of mine is bringing the Utopia to my place next week.
> 
> The WA5 was also on my list of headphone amps, but then I heard about the Glenn 300B. Quite a few comparisons on here of the WA5 and the 300B. Some would say the design of the WA5 with 6SN7's and 300B's isn't an ideal design, but it seems everyone who has listened to a WA5 has thoroughly enjoyed it.




One of my 300B amps is driven by 6SN7's and it sounds wonderful even though 6SN7 are not the ideal drivers for the 300B's as many say.
This particular amp excels when the 300B's are driven by ECC35's even though it was not designed so.
Trial and error by a some of us revealed many pleasant surprises.
I found the AVVT 300B's driven by DDR made drivers sound outstanding too.
It's all down to personal preferences of course.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> Sydney is indeed a beautiful city. Do come for a visit again with Glenn and I would love to meet up with you and show you around. It was a lovely day to attend the meet but as I look outside the clear bright Spring day, I was wondering why I'm indoor. This fascinations with head-fi makes me forget what a beautiful city I live in and that there is so much to do out there.
> 
> I've thoroughly enjoyed myself at the meet. This weekend will go by so quickly as I play host to some friends coming over to my house tomorrow (Sunday) to listen to my sound systems.
> 
> ...




Next time I come to Sydney I'll be visiting all the "wrong" places Matt, no good.........


----------



## leftside (Nov 11, 2017)

ECC35's are some of my favorite tubes. I think they have a little extra gain, along with the ECC33's.

I'd also really like to visit Sydney sometime. I'm meant to be visiting a friend in New Zealand for some mountain biking in a couple of years, so perhaps I'll stop by on the way


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Next time I come to Sydney I'll be visiting all the "wrong" places Matt, no good.........



Define "wrong" places. Don't worry I'll make sure you go to the right places like Bondi Beach where it's 'ok' to go topless.


----------



## rosgr63

leftside said:


> ECC35's are some of my favorite tubes. I think they have a little extra gain, along with the ECC33's.



X2

Enjoy your session next week and do let us know how you enjoy these nice headphones.

PS I won't mention anything about my Canada visits, I try to keep the thread calm.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> Define "wrong" places. Don't worry I'll make sure you go to the right places like Bondi Beach where it's 'ok' to go topless.



Wrong: restaurants, Hi-Fi shops, candy stores. 
That's what I meant Matt what did you think?


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Wrong: restaurants, Hi-Fi shops, candy stores.
> That's what I meant Matt what did you think?



Ah ha, I see what you mean. Sydney will spoil you with restaurants, HiFi shops and candy stores indeed. 

It's hard to think at 4:22am on a Sunday morning. I have a headphone strap on and not a care in the world. Until sleepiness overcomes me and my head plonk on the keyboard or I somehow manage to drag myself to bed. Not forgetting I have a guest coming tomorrow !!!! I mean later today.....


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I'd also really like to visit Sydney sometime. I'm meant to be visiting a friend in New Zealand for some mountain biking in a couple of years, so perhaps I'll stop by on the way



Sure leftside, do come and visit me. My racing bicycle ( It's a Specialized Roubaix !!!) is in the garage. Ever since I got on this head-fi mania, I've stopped riding. I've a brother who lives in Toronto and I've never been to Canada.


----------



## leftside

Also lived in Toronto for 4 years, but then I learnt to mountain bike, ski, snowboard... and the mountains called my name. Get that bike out the garage man!


----------



## 2359glenn

UT
Started building your amp today will send you pics of the progress.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> UT
> Started building your amp today will send you pics of the progress.



Yaaaaayyyyyy !!!!

Now watch my post count go over 10,000. 

I can't wait Glenn. !!!


----------



## Rossliew

Oh no Matt is gonna flood the thread with postings!! Cower and hide y’all !!


----------



## UntilThen

Too right. You will get live update of Ulysses home coming.


----------



## UntilThen

@ru4music is Scarlett on her way to you now? Remember to provide unboxing pictures.


----------



## leftside

I see there are a few fans of ZMF on here. I just ordered the Auteur Blackwood. Will be very interested to see how they compare to the LCD-3.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> @ru4music is Scarlett on her way to you now? Remember to provide unboxing pictures.


Not yet.  Glenn was getting heavy rain in his area last week so he decided to wait, it should be shipped out tomorrow (today is Sunday) or at least early this week.


----------



## ru4music

leftside said:


> I see there are a few fans of ZMF on here. I just ordered the Auteur Blackwood. Will be very interested to see how they compare to the LCD-3.



Good for you, those are very intriguing headphones!  I'm sure the Glenn 300B will make them sing.  They are 300 ohm so I'm not sure if they would be the best pairing for my forthcoming GEL3N but the other ZMF phones have caught my eye as well.


----------



## 2359glenn

Amp is in my truck to be shipped tomorrow


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Amp is in my truck to be shipped tomorrow


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I see there are a few fans of ZMF on here. I just ordered the Auteur Blackwood. Will be very interested to see how they compare to the LCD-3.



Yes I love my Eikon and Atticus on both Euforia and Ragnarok.

Sounds great on Wa5 on Sat.

Can't wait to get it on Ulysses. Should be great.


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> Good for you, those are very intriguing headphones!  I'm sure the Glenn 300B will make them sing.  They are 300 ohm so I'm not sure if they would be the best pairing for my forthcoming GEL3N but the other ZMF phones have caught my eye as well.



They will work fine with the EL3N same output impedance as the 300B. Almost the same output transformer just different primary impedance
to match the EL3N.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> They will work fine with the EL3N same output impedance as the 300B. Almost the same output transformer just different primary impedance
> to match the EL3N.


Good to know Glenn. I am theoretically/ mentally trying to work to-the-next-level (aren't we all!)


----------



## ru4music

OK!!!!  I am officially giving myself a 'time-out' until "Scarlett: GEL3N" arrives.


----------



## UntilThen (Nov 12, 2017)

ru4music said:


> OK!!!!  I am officially giving myself a 'time-out' until "Scarlett: GEL3N" arrives.



I will mentally prep you for Scarlett initiation. Plug in hd800 and select 'Stairways To Heaven' and wait for the drums to kick in. Then play 'Nothing Else Matters' by Metallica, followed by 'Bolero' by Ravel.

Enjoy !!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Here is a nice rectifier I won last night


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> Here is a nice rectifier I won last night



10 dollars?


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> Good for you, those are very intriguing headphones!  I'm sure the Glenn 300B will make them sing.  They are 300 ohm so I'm not sure if they would be the best pairing for my forthcoming GEL3N but the other ZMF phones have caught my eye as well.



No  worries, 300 ohm cans will sound great with GEL3N.






2359glenn said:


> Here is a nice rectifier I won last night



Congrats Glenn....how did you win this....e-bay auction ?


----------



## UntilThen

When I had EL3N tubes in Elise, my T1 and HD650 sounded great.

GEL3N being specially designed and tuned for EL3N should sound amazing with dynamic high impedance headphones as well as planar magnetics low impedance headphones.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> No  worries, 300 ohm cans will sound great with GEL3N.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes E-Bay probably paid to much but oh well


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> When I had EL3N tubes in Elise, my T1 and HD650 sounded great.
> 
> GEL3N being specially designed and tuned for EL3N should sound amazing with dynamic high impedance headphones as well as planar magnetics low impedance headphones.



As soon as I am done with your OTL I start building a EL3N amp for myself a Christmas present.
It has been a long time since I built myself a new amp. Built one then sold it.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> I see there are a few fans of ZMF on here. I just ordered the Auteur Blackwood. Will be very interested to see how they compare to the LCD-3.


I have an Ori and will be ordering a Cocobolo Atticus in the next few days
I will look forward to your impressions between the two headphones.







2359glenn said:


> Yes E-Bay probably paid to much but oh well


I want to try one of these eventually.
What amp you putting this in?










UntilThen said:


> When I had EL3N tubes in Elise, my T1 and HD650 sounded great.
> 
> GEL3N being specially designed and tuned for EL3N should sound amazing with dynamic high impedance headphones as well as planar magnetics low impedance headphones.



Spot on Matt.
For just headphones and not having to worry about powering speakers, the GEL3N will be great with about any headphone.....not including HE-6, LOL!
Good for high or low impedance.


----------



## 2359glenn (Nov 13, 2017)

Spot on Matt.
For just headphones and not having to worry about powering speakers, the GEL3N will be great with about any headphone.....not including HE-6, LOL!
Good for high or low impedance.[/QUOTE]

For the HE-6 you will need the 300B amp 8 watts


----------



## 2359glenn

Putting the GZ37 in the EL3N amp when I build it
Along with the 3DG4 and 5CU4 not going to use wimpy rectifiers.
These are 3 of the best rectifiers excluding the WE422A out of my price range.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Spot on Matt.
> For just headphones and not having to worry about powering speakers, the GEL3N will be great with about any headphone.....not including HE-6, LOL!
> Good for high or low impedance.



For the HE-6 you will need the 300B amp 8 watts[/QUOTE]

HEKv2 seems to need a ton of juice also. When I drive mine from the 300B amp the volume pot is not that far away from where I have it for the HE6, if that is any indication. The HD800S is not very far behind the HEKv2.

I don't doubt that the EL3N amp can drive the HEKv2 and HD800S, but I do wonder if that amp can provide enough juice to get the best out of them?

What sort of wattage does the EL3N amp throw?

Moar power. Which gets me back to my slightly alcohol affected idea for an 845 version of the Glenn amp. 20W of class A goodness. Because.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> Putting the GZ37 in the EL3N amp when I build it
> Along with the 3DG4 and 5CU4 not going to use wimpy rectifiers.
> These are 3 of the best rectifiers excluding the WE422A out of my price range.



Nice rectifier Glenn
I am using the same rectifier on GOTL as well


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Putting the GZ37 in the EL3N amp when I build it
> Along with the 3DG4 and 5CU4 not going to use wimpy rectifiers.
> These are 3 of the best rectifiers excluding the WE422A out of my price range.




I figured as much.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> As soon as I am done with your OTL I start building a EL3N amp for myself a Christmas present.
> It has been a long time since I built myself a new amp. Built one then sold it.



Glenn you deserve a Christmas present from yourself !


----------



## whirlwind

TonyNewman said:


> For the HE-6 you will need the 300B amp 8 watts



HEKv2 seems to need a ton of juice also. When I drive mine from the 300B amp the volume pot is not that far away from where I have it for the HE6, if that is any indication. The HD800S is not very far behind the HEKv2.

I don't doubt that the EL3N amp can drive the HEKv2 and HD800S, but I do wonder if that amp can provide enough juice to get the best out of them?

What sort of wattage does the EL3N amp throw?

Moar power. Which gets me back to my slightly alcohol affected idea for an 845 version of the Glenn amp. 20W of class A goodness. Because.[/QUOTE]



EL3N amp is nothing near the 300B  8 watts.....maybe 1.5 - 2 watts


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> EL3N amp is nothing near the 300B  8 watts.....maybe 1.5 - 2 watts



Pah! <kicks sand in the face of EL3N amp> 

Then again, practicality is an issue with the 300B. It throws a lot of heat, gets quite hot, weighs more than most mothers-in-law and nice 300B tubes are crazy crazy expensive.


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:


> Pah! <kicks sand in the face of EL3N amp>
> 
> Then again, practicality is an issue with the 300B. It throws a lot of heat, gets quite hot, weighs more than most mothers-in-law and nice 300B tubes are crazy crazy expensive.



EL3N tubes $20 and most headphones don't need more then 2 watts.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hey Matt how is this so far.


----------



## UntilThen (Nov 13, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> Hey Matt how is this so far.



O M G. You finished it !!!

Looks superb. I suppose those 2 tubes on the left in front of the chokes are the hexfred rectifiers?


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> EL3N tubes $20 and most headphones don't need more then 2 watts.



Agreed that most headphones don't *need *more than 2W, but there seems to be quite a few that _*like *_more than 2W (HEK / HD800 / Abyss / LCD-4 ... ).

The point being that to get the absolute best out of a headphone more power can be a good thing (sometimes).


----------



## 2359glenn

The HD-800 is high impedance it needs more voltage then power. So your you might have to turn up
the volume more to get the voltage needed but they are using little power.
They work well with the OTL amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> O M G. You finished it !!!
> 
> Looks superb. I suppose those 2 tubes on the left in front of the chokes are the hexfred rectifiers?



No it is far from finished.   Those 2 things are the large filter capacitors and the chokes are between them and
the Lundahl transformer.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> The HD-800 is high impedance it needs more voltage then power. So your you might have to turn up
> the volume more to get the voltage needed but they are using little power.
> They work well with the OTL amp.



That leaves more than a few power hungry planars out there that might be gasping with 1.5 to 2W, but then folks should be aware upfront if they are fans of the those headphones.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> Hey Matt how is this so far.


Looks amazing! I am sure Matt is ecstatic right now.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Here is a nice rectifier I won last night



Also, you might want to try some of the AZ12 manufactured in Germany, such Loewe and Telefunken. Whirlwind tells me that they sound great in your EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Looks amazing! I am sure Matt is ecstatic right now.



I am very excited indeed. The layout of the amp looks beautiful. I really like it.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 14, 2017)

TonyNewman said:


> Pah! <kicks sand in the face of EL3N amp>
> 
> Then again, practicality is an issue with the 300B. It throws a lot of heat, gets quite hot, weighs more than most mothers-in-law and nice 300B tubes are crazy crazy expensive.




Ha ha.
If one needs 8 amps then the 300B is the way to go, no doubt about it.
No doubt about it that it is the better amp.

That being said, the EL3N amp has much going for it....it will power most headphones out there, with some exceptions as you say.
$20 each for the sound of these tubes is an absolute bargain, the amp runs so cool it is not funny, chassis is *never* more than luke warm...only heat from the amp comes from rectifier.
Two different modes to listen to, with one of them having nothing in the signal path...this mode will be dead silent, even if you do not have the quietest tubes.
My planars are at ear bleeding levels with my amp in two tube mode and volume pot at 10:00.
The ZMF Ori is not a hard to drive planar, I don't feel I am missing anything...the sound is big and the synergy is a 10/10.
I have not listened to my HD800 very much since I have had this amp.

The bang for the buck is off the hook with this amp......granted, it may have it's limitations, but you need to know what you want it for before buying.

The EL3N tubes can be finicky, I bought quite a few to make three solid sets that I like, but at $20 each at least it is not like paying $100 or more for a tube to find it not to your liking.

You only need the front two tubes to be quiet as if you have any finicky ones, you can throw them in the back two sockets and they are just fine.


Matt, you must be very excited to see that pic


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> EL3N tubes $20 and most headphones don't need more then 2 watts.



Just a few observations here. Agree that most headphones don't need more than 2 watts. I've heard hd800 and T1 on several OTL amps (Woo Audio WA2, Elise, Euforia, La Figaro 339) and it has been driven perfectly. At no time did I think that hd800 was under driven by those amps. The last I heard hd800 was on Sat with Woo WA5, which is quite a beast. At 9 o'clock on WA5 volume dial, HD800 was really loud.

EL3N are not usually $20 tubes. Depends on who you buy from. A quick search on ebay shows different prices. Some as much as US$89 each. We do know that it's our fortune that we can get NOS NIB EL3N tubes from 2 sources for $20 each. One of them being Acoustics Dimension where I bought my 10 el3n tubes from. All 10 work fine and none were finicky. 

As observed by whirlwind and those who have owned GEL3N amps or use EL3N in Elise, these are cool running tubes. The amps are barely warm. In contrast, my Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP when I had it, was very 'hot' after 30 minutes of operation. However, nobody buys the Primaluna HP sorely to drive headphones. It is first and foremost a very good stereo integrated tube amp that happens to be a really good headphone amp too. Likewise Ragnarok which runs in class A mode for headphones. Rag is hot in operation. You can toast your bread on it.

Here is an unusual gold colour Visseaux EL3N on ebay.


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:


> Agreed that most headphones don't *need *more than 2W, but there seems to be quite a few that _*like *_more than 2W (HEK / HD800 / Abyss / LCD-4 ... ).
> 
> The point being that to get the absolute best out of a headphone more power can be a good thing (sometimes).



Hey Tony
How about a GM70 tube amp 40 watts per channel single ended and the tubes are cheep from Russia.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Hey Tony
> How about a GM70 tube amp 40 watts per channel single ended and the tubes are cheep from Russia.



Fantastic - a tube amp that can melt a HE6


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Hey Tony
> How about a GM70 tube amp 40 watts per channel single ended and the tubes are cheep from Russia.


Only pairs well with the HE6 and nothing else?


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Only pairs well with the HE6 and nothing else?



It will pair well with my speakers. The floor standers.


----------



## Khragon

Missing some 300B love lately... here's Glenn 300B working it magic with 1959 WE300B tubes... heavenly


----------



## 2359glenn

Rossliew said:


> Only pairs well with the HE6 and nothing else?



Not really the GM70 is a good sounding tube. And it would use the same Lundahl transformer
just with the core air gapped for higher current.


----------



## 2359glenn

Khragon said:


> Missing some 300B love lately... here's Glenn 300B working it magic with 1959 WE300B tubes... heavenly



Nice 300Bs the best!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Not really the GM70 is a good sounding tube. And it would use the same Lundahl transformer
> just with the core air gapped for higher current.


Sounds interesting. So will it be a huge and heavy behemoth of an amp?


----------



## whirlwind

TonyNewman said:


> Fantastic - a tube amp that can melt a HE6




Sounds like just what you are looking for Tony!


----------



## 2359glenn

Rossliew said:


> Sounds interesting. So will it be a huge and heavy behemoth of an amp?



No it would be the same size as the 300B amp I would just have to squeeze more capacitors under the chassis.
Have to double them up in series to handle the high voltage 900 volts.
Same size transformers maybe one extra for the crazy 20 volt heaters.


----------



## Rossliew

Hmm...how many amps did you say you have JJ the pipeline currently?


----------



## 2359glenn

Just 2


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> No it would be the same size as the 300B amp I would just have to squeeze more capacitors under the chassis.
> Have to double them up in series to handle the high voltage 900 volts.
> Same size transformers maybe one extra for the crazy 20 volt heaters.



Now that sounds like a great setup for a speaker amp / power amp. Overkill for headphones (even I'm not that crazy to throw 40W at headphones), but for a SET amp to drive sensitive floor standers it makes a lot of sense.

Did a little reading on the GM70 tube and it sounds like a better tube for for audio than the 845. The 845 design was optimized for use as a radio transmitter tube, but not so efficient as an audio amplification tube. The GM70 does a better job as an amplification device.

LINK

I have no clue how the GM70 sounds - Glenn, any comments?


----------



## UntilThen

The GM70 amp seems very interesting for speakers.

For headphones, I'm more interested in a 45 or 2A3 amp or one that is switchable between the 2 tubes. Maybe someday Glenn.... 

For now, I'll just patiently await my OTL amp. which I think will really pleased me with my headphones. Maybe it will curb my desires to have anymore amps.


----------



## leftside

TonyNewman said:


> Overkill for headphones (even I'm not that crazy to throw 40W at headphones)


Plenty of people on here using amps with more than 40W for the HE-6. More power is a good thing. More headroom.

I used to have two McIntosh 7270's bridged to produce 600W into my B&W speakers. I could rattle the entire house. Felt like the drainpipes were going to come off. Things were getting a little excessive and this setup was in the living room, so I made an agreement with my wife to downsize this setup and upgrade the dedicated music listening room.... and hence along came the Glenn 300B...


----------



## mordy

Khragon said:


> Missing some 300B love lately... here's Glenn 300B working it magic with 1959 WE300B tubes... heavenly


I was thinking of  a new car, but then I saw this - only $446 for 24 months or 10,000 buy it now:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-el...229966?hash=item1c966425ce:g:NyIAAOSw5cNYG4xU

But it is for only one tube so I have to pass.....And it is used.....


----------



## ru4music

leftside said:


> Plenty of people on here using amps with more than 40W for the HE-6. More power is a good thing. More headroom.
> 
> I used to have two McIntosh 7270's bridged to produce 600W into my B&W speakers. I could rattle the entire house. Felt like the drainpipes were going to come off. Things were getting a little excessive and this setup was in the living room, so I made an agreement with my wife to downsize this setup and *upgrade* the dedicated music listening room.... and *hence along came the Glenn 300B*...


The Glenn 300B was the upgrade part, right?


----------



## ru4music

mordy said:


> I was thinking of  a new car, but then I saw this - only $446 for 24 months or 10,000 buy it now:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-el...229966?hash=item1c966425ce:g:NyIAAOSw5cNYG4xU
> 
> But it is for only one tube so I have to pass.....And it is used.....[/QUOTE
> Wow, I almost bought that tube myself, then I found this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL3N-TUBE-USED/140643905482?hash=item20bf07afca:m:mt8pYtlt8fslSA0nuJsgz0w and realized Scarlett will be here soon.  Now what to do with the $9,950.00 dollars I saved... what to do.....


----------



## UntilThen

$9950 will get you to Sydney on a nice holiday and I will throw in a free koala.


----------



## leftside

ru4music said:


> The Glenn 300B was the upgrade part, right?


That's right! And a preamp... and a phono preamp...


----------



## 2359glenn

Oh only $10,000 and the getter has faded not much life left in that tube.


----------



## ru4music (Nov 15, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> $9950 will get you to Sydney on a nice holiday and I will throw in a *free koala*.


U.S. Customs might have a problem with importing a koala, but if you promised to go 3 rounds in the ring with a boxing kangaroo; I think I would have to give it some serious thought! 

And we could split the pay-per-view rights/ profits (It would be better than MayWeather- McGregor!)


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> The GM70 amp seems very interesting for speakers.
> 
> For headphones, I'm more interested in a 45 or 2A3 amp or one that is switchable between the 2 tubes. Maybe someday Glenn....
> 
> For now, I'll just patiently await my OTL amp. which I think will really pleased me with my headphones. *Maybe it will curb my desires to have anymore amps.*



Now that one's right up there with "I once saw a lawyer with his hands in his own pockets", and "I once played a phono album so many times I could hear the other side!"


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:


> Now that sounds like a great setup for a speaker amp / power amp. Overkill for headphones (even I'm not that crazy to throw 40W at headphones), but for a SET amp to drive sensitive floor standers it makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Did a little reading on the GM70 tube and it sounds like a better tube for for audio than the 845. The 845 design was optimized for use as a radio transmitter tube, but not so efficient as an audio amplification tube. The GM70 does a better job as an amplification device.
> 
> ...



Tony you don't have to turn the volume up to 40 watts output.

I would like to make one of these amps over Christmas week. But the output transformers might be a problem.
I have two 7K ohm primary transformers coming next week but they are core air gaped at 50 ma for EL3Ns
The problem is Lundahl is closing again for Christmas and if I order them now I probably won't get them until
after the 1st of the year.  Company's in Europe are closed as much as they are open. 
The GM70 uses the same 7K transformer but has to be air gaped at 85ma. This is really the same transformer 
as the 300B but with a different primary impedance.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Tony you don't have to turn the volume up to 40 watts output.
> 
> I would like to make one of these amps over Christmas week. But the output transformers might be a problem.
> I have two 7K ohm primary transformers coming next week but they are core air gaped at 50 ma for EL3Ns
> ...



Which tube are you considering for a driver?  I would imagine that tube takes a large voltage swing even @ 15-20 watts of pure class A.


----------



## Rossliew

Well then you get to build your own EL3N amp in peace


----------



## UntilThen

I can't keep up with this thread. It's too fast for even me.


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> Which tube are you considering for a driver?  I would imagine that tube takes a large voltage swing even @ 15-20 watts of pure class A.



I was hoping to use the C3g but it might not be strong enough. Might have to use a video output tube like a 12HG7 or 12GN7 capable of 10 watts output.


----------



## Rossliew

Sounds like a mother of all tube amps..

@2359glenn what would you reckon this amp sounds like?


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Tony you don't have to turn the volume up to 40 watts output.
> 
> I would like to make one of these amps over Christmas week. But the output transformers might be a problem.
> I have two 7K ohm primary transformers coming next week but they are core air gaped at 50 ma for EL3Ns
> ...



If I was in the market for a SET speaker amp I would be all over this like a rash, but I'm not.
Quite happy with the 300B amp doing its thing. 8W is enough, even for the HE6.

I like the look of the GM70 - does anyone still make them, or are they NOS only?


----------



## mordy

Hi ru4music,
I think that I have 10 EL3N NOS in original brand new looking boxes that were bought from a Dutch vendor for around $25 shipped - I think that they still have them for that price or less, since the Euro is lower now.
ATM I am not using them. As the saying goes: I can't afford to save so much!

Two years ago a new pair of WE 300B went for $13,000 +(!) shipping.......

The EL3N tubes I have are made by Philips in Vienna - see my Avatar or this picture of the Vienna Guard:


----------



## ru4music (Nov 15, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> I was hoping to use the C3g but it might not be strong enough. Might have to use a video output tube like a 12HG7 or 12GN7 capable of 10 watts output.



Likely not for max. power output, but it sure would be very interesting to hear a quality C3g => GM70 @ 8-10 watts (Class A) amp.


----------



## ru4music

mordy said:


> Hi ru4music,
> I think that I have 10 EL3N NOS in original brand new looking boxes that were bought from a Dutch vendor for around $25 shipped - I think that they still have them for that price or less, since the Euro is lower now.
> ATM I am not using them. As the saying goes: I can't afford to save so much!
> 
> ...



I actually purchased 8 (low hour) Philips red label EL3Ns through ebay a couple months back ($20 ea.)  They test well on my tube tester, however the ultimate test will be to plug them into the amp for a go.


----------



## mordy

ru4music said:


> I actually purchased 8 (low hour) Philips red label EL3Ns through ebay a couple months back ($20 ea.)  They test well on my tube tester, however the ultimate test will be to plug them into the amp for a go.


You did well - these are cool running 10,000 hour tubes.


----------



## Khragon

mordy said:


> I was thinking of  a new car, but then I saw this - only $446 for 24 months or 10,000 buy it now:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-el...229966?hash=item1c966425ce:g:NyIAAOSw5cNYG4xU
> 
> But it is for only one tube so I have to pass.....And it is used.....



haha I didn't spend any where near that.. got mine on ebay for $2k for the pair... it's a big faded and dirty.. but seems to be working just fine... I haven't give it seriously listen to compare to the reissue 1990's WE300B.


----------



## TonyNewman

Not sure I understand the mega-bucks for the vintage WE300Bs when the Takatsukis are available now - new production with 12 month warranty. Fantastic build quality, robust and likely to outlive many owners.

I have not heard the vintage or re-issue WE300Bs, but an audio friend of mine has compared both against the TA300B and puts the TA300B ahead - better extension top and bottom while the WE300Bs tend to be very mid-range centric. A one trick pony, albeit a very, very well executed trick. 

Mids perhaps a touch better on the vintage WE300Bs, but not much in it. Certainly not enough to justify the price, or the risk, with NOS (or used) tubes when new production Takatsukis are available with a warranty?

YMMV, but 10K for a pair of used WE300Bs seems mildly insane to me. That amount would purchase several pairs of TA300Bs - a lifetime supply.


----------



## leftside

I doubt many people are purchasing WE300B's to use these days. Probably to collect.


----------



## Khragon

I'm using my WE300B every day..   collect was never part of the plan, curiosity is the main driver here.


----------



## UntilThen

I would have been happy with Psvane (WE300b) replica.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I would have been happy with Psvane (WE300b) replica.


No you won't. I don't think 100 WE300 cost a million. The guy could be a mini old_guy_radiola.


----------



## mordy (Nov 16, 2017)

TonyNewman said:


> Not sure I understand the mega-bucks for the vintage WE300Bs when the Takatsukis are available now - new production with 12 month warranty. Fantastic build quality, robust and likely to outlive many owners.
> 
> I have not heard the vintage or re-issue WE300Bs, but an audio friend of mine has compared both against the TA300B and puts the TA300B ahead - better extension top and bottom while the WE300Bs tend to be very mid-range centric. A one trick pony, albeit a very, very well executed trick.
> 
> ...


HI TN,

The price is for one tube - doubly insane......


TonyNewman said:


> Not sure I understand the mega-bucks for the vintage WE300Bs when the Takatsukis are available now - new production with 12 month warranty. Fantastic build quality, robust and likely to outlive many owners.
> 
> I have not heard the vintage or re-issue WE300Bs, but an audio friend of mine has compared both against the TA300B and puts the TA300B ahead - better extension top and bottom while the WE300Bs tend to be very mid-range centric. A one trick pony, albeit a very, very well executed trick.
> 
> ...


----------



## gibosi

And I think paying more than $25 for a single 6BX7 is too much! ahaha...


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> I would have been happy with Psvane (WE300b) replica.



I really, really wouldn't go there if I were you. I had a Psvane WE300B replica go feral and take out a choke + an output transformer on my Glenn 300B - cooked em both when the tube went.

If you want a 300B with the rich mid range of the WE300B (and a lot more besides) I would go for the Taks - if your budget won't stretch that far I would look hard at the EML mesh. Lovely sounding tube - doesn't have the same magic or extension as the Taks, but still a very nice sounding tube, just be gentle with it.

I have also been quite happy with the plate EML 300B and the EAT 300B. The Elrogs have been technically impressive, but a little bright for my tastes. If I was into classical / instrumental the Elrogs would be right up there. Otherwise not worth the price - I would go plate EML or mesh EML instead. YMMV (as always).


----------



## mordy

TonyNewman said:


> I really, really wouldn't go there if I were you. I had a Psvane WE300B replica go feral and take out a choke + an output transformer on my Glenn 300B - cooked em both when the tube went.
> 
> If you want a 300B with the rich mid range of the WE300B (and a lot more besides) I would go for the Taks - if your budget won't stretch that far I would look hard at the EML mesh. Lovely sounding tube - doesn't have the same magic or extension as the Taks, but still a very nice sounding tube, just be gentle with it.
> 
> I have also been quite happy with the plate EML 300B and the EAT 300B. The Elrogs have been technically impressive, but a little bright for my tastes. If I was into classical / instrumental the Elrogs would be right up there. Otherwise not worth the price - I would go plate EML or mesh EML instead. YMMV (as always).


Hi TN,

Is it possible to get a Glenn amp with protective circuitry to avoid what you are describing?


----------



## TonyNewman

mordy said:


> Hi TN,
> 
> Is it possible to get a Glenn amp with protective circuitry to avoid what you are describing?



That's a great question - and way outside my area of expertise. Glenn might be able to weigh in on that with an expert opinion.

Just some wild speculation - it might be hard to add all the necessary protective circuitry without impacting the sound? I really don't know.


----------



## leftside

Tony has had all the bad luck for the rest of us


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> Tony has had all the bad luck for the rest of us



It felt like that back in the day - almost gave up on tubes completely more than once.

But that was then and this is now. My amp has been modded with a soft start and SS rectification and is running sweetly indeed.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> No you won't. I don't think 100 WE300 cost a million. The guy could be a mini old_guy_radiola.



My life is changed now. I will go with $25 6BX7 tubes.


----------



## mordy

TonyNewman said:


> That's a great question - and way outside my area of expertise. Glenn might be able to weigh in on that with an expert opinion.
> 
> Just some wild speculation - it might be hard to add all the necessary protective circuitry without impacting the sound? I really don't know.


Unfortunately


TonyNewman said:


> That's a great question - and way outside my area of expertise. Glenn might be able to weigh in on that with an expert opinion.
> 
> Just some wild speculation - it might be hard to add all the necessary protective circuitry without impacting the sound? I really don't know.


Hi TN,
I have a Little Dot MKIII that fried one channel when I used a faulty adapter. One of the things we asked Feliks Audio (Elise and Euforia amps) was to add a protective circuit, and this was incorporated into these amps. 
Not understanding that the adapter shorted the tube, I put in the same adapter in the Elise, but it just shut down for some 10 minutes and then worked perfectly with the regular tubes.
I have not heard anybody say that a protective circuit would alter the sound. IMHO such a circuit is a must for people who roll tubes.
These circuits have been around a long time - my 80's Sony integrated amp from the 80's has it, and it saved this amp from a speaker that shorted (but the same speaker fried my Outlaw RR2150 receiver).
Maybe a short in a tube, adapter or speaker is uncommon, but the consequences are dire. It took me a while to figure out that the speaker I had used daily for four years suddenly shorted.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> My life is changed now. I will go with $25 6BX7 tubes.


I see. The queen finally found out how much you had spent on tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

No one knows how much I spend on tubes or audio gear since I started on this 'Journey To The West' in 2015. Ok I'm getting confused with the monkey character here. Monkey is quite a character in Journey To The West. 

Even I don't know how much I spend because I have thrown away the ledger. I refuse to count. If I spend too much I blame it on inflation and the global economy.

Now I'll tell you how I try to prevent any shorting or blowing up of tubes. It's not 100% prevention but it will minimise it. The answer is very simple. I buy mostly new or nearly new tubes. Well you could argue that even new tubes could have problems. Maybe... maybe but that doesn't usually happen. 

Very early in my tube life  I bought a pair of used Tung Sol 5998 from a seller in Vietnam. Cost me $100 each for those used tubes. Bloody expensive for used tubes if you ask me. Anyway when I got it I plonk it in my OTL amp and flick the power switch. The next 3 secs, my eyes were transfixed as I stared at the flame igniting inside one of the 5998 before my very eyes. I got my refund of course after I call the seller all kinds of names and send a formal complain to ebay.

Since then, I've been buying new or nearly new tubes. Unless it's from someone I can trust. Like Stavros my new found friend.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> No one knows how much I spend on tubes or audio gear since I started on this 'Journey To The West' in 2015. Ok I'm getting confused with the monkey character here. Monkey is quite a character in Journey To The West.
> 
> Even I don't know how much I spend because I have thrown away the ledger. I refuse to count. If I spend too much I blame it on inflation and the global economy.
> 
> ...


yup, that happens. I have at least two 5998, bendix 6080wb, GEC 6as7g sit in a box... all have problems.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> yup, that happens. I have at least two 5998, bendix 6080wb, GEC 6as7g sit in a box... all have problems.



Those that don't work you need to take out your hammer and smash it.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> yup, that happens. I have at least two 5998, bendix 6080wb, GEC 6as7g sit in a box... all have problems.



Of course, I don't know anything about your tubes, but have you thoroughly cleaned the pins? I vigorously clean pins with 220 grit sandpaper. It doesn't always help, but often, tubes that are unacceptably noisy become much quieter.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Of course, I don't know anything about your tubes, but have you thoroughly cleaned the pins? I vigorously clean pins with 220 grit sandpaper. It doesn't always help, but often, tubes that are unacceptably noisy become much quieter.


 Some are shorted, or broke inside. no cures.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Those that don't work you need to take out your hammer and smash it.



Ha ha ha










gibosi said:


> Of course, I don't know anything about your tubes, but have you thoroughly cleaned the pins? I vigorously clean pins with 220 grit sandpaper. It doesn't always help, but often, tubes that are unacceptably noisy become much quieter.



When ever I clean tube pins I use sandpaper also, this method has worked best for me.

I have had some tubes go bad on me in my tubes amps in the past, but fortunately I have never hurt any gear...had two tubes arc and go bad in the same night with my MadEar+HD a few years back....luckily no damage to any gear.
I had one new EL3N tube just have crazy noise from the word go...just got rid of it immediately.

I would not give up on the 5998 tube if you hear some pinging noises in it on start up......at times I have a set that does this..then settles down and sounds wonderful after a while.
These and the C3g tubes are one of my favorite combos in the OTL amp....I made sure to get enough of both to last me for my time on earth, lol.

After listening to the EL3N amp for a few months now, these tubes sound their best after they have been on for a good while

Bad tubes do happen, and they can be new tubes as well as old. Just part of having tube amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

I had a 5998 short out in the OTL and blow my headphone done nothing to the amp.
@Xcalibur255 had the same thing happen with a 5998 blown headphone but no damage to the amp.
Some of these tubes are just defective I think some of the stuff being sold now are factory rejects.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 18, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> I had a 5998 short out in the OTL and blow my headphone done nothing to the amp.
> @Xcalibur255 had the same thing happen with a 5998 blown headphone but no damage to the amp.
> Some of these tubes are just defective I think some of the stuff being sold now are factory rejects.



This may happen to me sooner or later, as these are usually what I use when listening to the OTL.
I love the HD800 with the 5998 power tubes and just roll drivers .

Maybe I need to lay off of this switch, but that is easier said then done...just because it is there


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Joe. This is the first time I see the back of a Glenn amp.

Very functional I'd say. Those RCA connectors are quality ones.

Hehehe I think I will love the 5998 boost switch and the switch for 6 12 and 25 volt looks really neat.

I like the power switch in front. That's where it should be.


----------



## UntilThen

Some house keeping is in order with the growing pile of tubes. I bought white boxes for 6SN7 tubes and Mullard branded ones for 6AS7s. This is the start of my getting them box up. Many more to go. I have many of them in pairs since the days of Elise and Euforia. Now I will only need one for Ulysses.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks to Arnold I think I need a preamp now. Note to self - never to talk to Arnold too much. So a Freya is on the cards in my audio journey (in 10 years time !!!) and the Freya uses these 6SN7 tubes. Here's what Schitt says about 6SN7s...

Now, we’re going back to classic designs—designs using the 6SN7 (or equivalent Russian 6H8C) triode, arguably one of the best tubes of all time. It measures extremely linearly, and offers performance that eclipses smaller noval (nine-pin) tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

You really don't need a preamp with the OTL


----------



## UntilThen (Nov 18, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> You really don't need a preamp with the OTL



The preamp's for my speakers system. 

For head-fi, I intend to keep it simple.

_Source > Yggdrasil > Ulysses > headphones._

For source, I'll going to test it with my Rega TT, Pioneer SACD and Auralic Aries Mini.... and my PC and iMac of course.


----------



## leftside

The _Redgum RGi120ENR _is a nice integrated amp (with preamp), so why would you need a separate preamp? Unless you're thinking of going separates with a preamp and an amp and selling the Redgum?


----------



## UntilThen

You are right. The Redgum is a moving experience and great balls of fire. It will shake the foundation of my house. I don't really need a preamp but I am intrigued by one that uses tube.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Thanks to Arnold I think I need a preamp now. Note to self - never to talk to Arnold too much. So a Freya is on the cards in my audio journey (in 10 years time !!!) and the Freya uses these 6SN7 tubes. Here's what Schitt says about 6SN7s...
> 
> Now, we’re going back to classic designs—designs using the 6SN7 (or equivalent Russian 6H8C) triode, arguably one of the best tubes of all time. It measures extremely linearly, and offers performance that eclipses smaller noval (nine-pin) tubes.


Freya is also on my list to buy just to add remote control and tube goodness to Ragnarok.

Glenn said you do not need a preamp for the OTL so I am intrigued if your OTL will have less gain than my Darna if you use a pair of C3g and 6-6BL7 or 6BX7 tubes. I can't wait for Ulysses to sail home down under.


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> Freya is also on my list to buy just to add remote control and tube goodness to Ragnarok.
> 
> Glenn said you do not need a preamp for the OTL so I am intrigued if your OTL will have less gain than my Darna if you use a pair of C3g and 6-6BL7 or 6BX7 tubes. I can't wait for Ulysses to sail home down under.



The gain should be the same that is why I said no preamp necessary.  just would add noise.


----------



## attmci (Nov 18, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> I had a 5998 short out in the OTL and blow my headphone done nothing to the amp.
> @Xcalibur255 had the same thing happen with a 5998 blown headphone but no damage to the amp.
> Some of these tubes are just defective I think some of the stuff being sold now are factory rejects.


This is so scary. I cannot afford to lose my headphone. So I bought a cheap tube tester a while ago. I learned a bad tube will kill a tube tester too.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Those that don't work you need to take out your hammer and smash it.



For one GEC 6as7g and one 5998, they are powered up fine, and half of the tube tested close to 100%. I am not sure if someone may use these?


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> I can't wait for Ulysses to sail home down under.



Ulysses is in the dock atm. He will be fitted with 2 high trust four stroke Yamaha outboards motors. Forget about sails. That's so 19th century.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> This is so scary. I cannot afford to lose my headphone. So I bought a cheap tube tester a while ago. I learned a bad tube will kill a tube tester too.



Why don't you send me your WE421a tubes. I will test them out for you.


----------



## gibosi

And if you have a WE422A, why don't you send it to me?


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> For one GEC 6as7g and one 5998, they are powered up fine, and half of the tube tested close to 100%. I am not sure if someone may use these?



I have a pair of 'perfect' GEC 6AS7G from Stavros and quad 5998 that is newer than when it was first manufactured. These are now primed, their pins gleaming from Deoxit application. They are so quiet you can hear your own breathing.

I don't need anymore.

Besides I am buying up the world's supply of 6BX7. In 10 years time they will be worth $250 each.


----------



## attmci (Nov 19, 2017)

gibosi said:


> And if you have a WE422A, why don't you send it to me?


I can test a 422A for Matt too, and will pay the shipping cost. LOL

This is so funny, I believe Matt have to have this "bad boy":


https://www.ebay.com/itm/6SN7GT-SYL...d=311957094791&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850


----------



## leftside (Nov 19, 2017)

Couple of different 421A's here:






I'm not sending them to anyone though


----------



## leftside

Be careful with the Deoxit! You only need a little and make sure it is all completely wiped off before inserting the tube.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> You are right. The Redgum is a moving experience and great balls of fire. It will shake the foundation of my house. I don't really need a preamp but I am intrigued by one that uses tube.


An 84 year old guy sold me this one. I was never going to purchase one of these, but he told me "you only live once and you won't have your hearing forever", so I used up some of my line of credit to take it off his hands.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Couple of different 421A's here:



Very nice and new. Drool worthy.


----------



## UntilThen (Nov 19, 2017)

leftside said:


> An 84 year old guy sold me this one. I was never going to purchase one of these, but he told me "you only live once and you won't have your hearing forever", so I used up some of my line of credit to take it off his hands.



You know, the 84 year old guy is right. Get it now ! 

When I look at the picture, I thought he sold you the Lampizator.

That's a beautiful McIntosh tube preamp. Does the 2 units come together or is the controller a separate purchase?


----------



## leftside

He sold me the Mac - the two units come together - controller and preamp. 

You’ll have to spend some serious coin to beat that Redgum you have tho. I’ve heard one of those and I was impressed. Maybe you’ll need to spend double on separate amp and preamp? Line of credit? Haha.


----------



## UntilThen

This is my Redgum RGi120ENR. In keeping with the Australian theme, the heatsink is also down under. Creator Ian Robinson and Lindy are very nice people to deal with.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> You’ll have to spend some serious coin to beat that Redgum you have tho. I’ve heard one of those and I was impressed. Maybe you’ll need to spend double on separate amp and preamp? Line of credit? Haha.



I had 3 integrated amps in my living room for a few months of evaluation. They were driving my Axis LS88 4ohm floor standers that can handle even a 300w beast. The 3 amps are Ragnarok, Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP and Redgum RGi120ENR.

At the end of the lengthy evaluations, I kept the Redgum for stereo and Rag for headphone duties and sold off the Primaluna.

I don't know if I will go with a pre and power further down the track but who knows....


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> An 84 year old guy sold me this one. I was never going to purchase one of these, but he told me "you only live once and you won't have your hearing forever", so I used up some of my line of credit to take it off his hands.




Fantastic....you are set for life.  Congrats


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> An 84 year old guy sold me this one. I was never going to purchase one of these, but he told me "you only live once and you won't have your hearing forever", so I used up some of my line of credit to take it off his hands.



What is that tube?


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> What is that tube?


The tube on the top of the Lampizator? Probably the Emission Labs 5U4G. It's an older photo as I ended up upgrading that DAC (Lampizator have a nice upgrade program).

The tubes in the Mac are eight 12AX7 tubes: four in the high level circuit and four more in the phono preamplifier. The phono preamplifier circuit is all tube if you are using a moving magnet (MM) stage. The MC stage uses a solid-state phono step-up module. From there MC outputs to the phono tubes. Four of the 12AX7’s are visible from the front panel, back lit in green, while the other four are beneath the top cover. I have Telefunken in the line stage and Gold Lion in the phono stage.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> The tube on the top of the Lampizator? Probably the Emission Labs 5U4G. It's an older photo as I ended up upgrading that DAC (Lampizator have a nice upgrade program).
> 
> The tubes in the Mac are eight 12AX7 tubes: four in the high level circuit and four more in the phono preamplifier. The phono preamplifier circuit is all tube if you are using a moving magnet (MM) stage. The MC stage uses a solid-state phono step-up module. From there MC outputs to the phono tubes. Four of the 12AX7’s are visible from the front panel, back lit in green, while the other four are beneath the top cover. I have Telefunken in the line stage and Gold Lion in the phono stage.



Very, very nice!


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> The tube on the top of the Lampizator? Probably the Emission Labs 5U4G. It's an older photo as I ended up upgrading that DAC (Lampizator have a nice upgrade program).
> 
> The tubes in the Mac are eight 12AX7 tubes: four in the high level circuit and four more in the phono preamplifier. The phono preamplifier circuit is all tube if you are using a moving magnet (MM) stage. The MC stage uses a solid-state phono step-up module. From there MC outputs to the phono tubes. Four of the 12AX7’s are visible from the front panel, back lit in green, while the other four are beneath the top cover. I have Telefunken in the line stage and Gold Lion in the phono stage.



Great setup you have there and you've the luxury of having an analogue and digital speaker system. That Lampizator Golden Atlantic is drool worthy but I'm looking at your phono preamp. Audia Flight is a specialist Italian audio manufacturer that does some very high end stuff. I was tempted to buy the Audia Flight CD Three recently but as CD player is my secondary source, I compromised and got a Pioneer SACD player instead.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Great setup you have there and you've the luxury of having an analogue and digital speaker system. That Lampizator Golden Atlantic is drool worthy but I'm looking at your phono preamp. Audia Flight is a specialist Italian audio manufacturer that does some very high end stuff. I was tempted to buy the Audia Flight CD Three recently but as CD player is my secondary source, I compromised and got a Pioneer SACD player instead.





UntilThen said:


> Great setup you have there and you've the luxury of having an analogue and digital speaker system. That Lampizator Golden Atlantic is drool worthy but I'm looking at your phono preamp. Audia Flight is a specialist Italian audio manufacturer that does some very high end stuff. I was tempted to buy the Audia Flight CD Three recently but as CD player is my secondary source, I compromised and got a Pioneer SACD player instead.


Non exotics dept:

Does anybody have experience with these highly rated inexpensive speakers - The Elac B6 Debut?
Currently on sale for $200 shipped for the pair:
https://www.google.com/search?q=ela...6j0i66l2.7178529j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Non exotics dept:
> 
> Does anybody have experience with these highly rated inexpensive speakers - The Elac B6 Debut?
> Currently on sale for $200 shipped for the pair:
> https://www.google.com/search?q=ela...6j0i66l2.7178529j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8



Herb Reichert says he recommends it to all his friends, not just the audiophile ones.  Jones the designer of ELAC has also been involved with brands such as KEF, Infinity and Pioneer. So if you are looking for a pair of speakers that will still leave you enough for that Christmas turkey feast, why not. 

Here's stereophile review of it. https://www.stereophile.com/content/elac-debut-b6-loudspeaker


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Herb Reichert says he recommends it to all his friends, not just the audiophile ones.  Jones the designer of ELAC has also been involved with brands such as KEF, Infinity and Pioneer. So if you are looking for a pair of speakers that will still leave you enough for that Christmas turkey feast, why not.
> 
> Here's stereophile review of it. https://www.stereophile.com/content/elac-debut-b6-loudspeaker


Hi UT,

Thanks for the link. According to the reviewer these now $200 speakers beat the Technics SB-C700s, and the KEF LS50s.
 Sounds too good to pass up...
I have the Andrew Jones designed Pioneer speakers SP-BS22-LR and SP-FS52. Now I need an excuse to buy these.....
My main listening is with Polk Monitor 50 and subwoofer PSW10 which I like better than the BS22 and FS52.
Decisions, decisions....


----------



## jekjek

leftside said:


> An 84 year old guy sold me this one. I was never going to purchase one of these, but he told me "you only live once and you won't have your hearing forever", so I used up some of my line of credit to take it off his hands.



Very nice tube!


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Thanks for the link. According to the reviewer these now $200 speakers beat the Technics SB-C700s, and the KEF LS50s.
> Sounds too good to pass up...



I don't know about other folks but as enjoyable as the speakers system is to me, my head-fi gear is getting as much of my time. This setup of Yggdrasil > Ragnarok > Eikon is gold to me at the moment. I await to see what magic Ulysses will bring. I'm hoping it will be diamonds.... are forever.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I don't know about other folks but as enjoyable as the speakers system is to me, my head-fi gear is getting as much of my time. This setup of Yggdrasil > Ragnarok > Eikon is gold to me at the moment. I await to see what magic Ulysses will bring. I'm hoping it will be diamonds.... are forever.


Hi UT,

Ordered the Elac B6 speakers - should be here tomorrow. We'll see how they stack up....Cheaper than $499 cables....


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats Mordy. That should be a nice Christmas present. I was and still am, very pleased with how my Whaferdale 10.1 plus sub sounded. Pity they get relegated to Home Theatre duties now but if it makes Fifth Elements sound good why not !


----------



## attmci (Nov 20, 2017)

Does anyone know who made this rectifier tube? It has a bottom square foil gutter. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-5Y3GB-D...450820?hash=item58dc147744:g:Zw0AAOSwUfNXRr~p

Thanks!


----------



## gibosi (Nov 20, 2017)

attmci said:


> Does anyone know who made this rectifier tube? It has a bottom square foil gutter.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-5Y3GB-D...450820?hash=item58dc147744:g:Zw0AAOSwUfNXRr~p
> 
> Thanks!



I am not sure...  However, La Radiotechniqe (RT) based in Suresnes, France, marketed their tubes under the Dario trademark. While receiving tubes, such as the ECC88, were manufactured by RT under the watchful eye of Philips, rectifiers were manufactured in a division independent of Philips. For example, a commonly seen example is the Dario 5R4GY. So my best guess is that this 5Y3GB was manufactured in Suresnes, France, by La Radiotechnique.

Edit: I should note that this rectifier can provide at most 125 ma, so it is not suitable for use in the OTL, even with only four 6BL7. However, it would be fine in the EL3N


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> I am not sure...  However, La Radiotechniqe (RT) based in Suresnes, France, marketed their tubes under the Dario trademark. While receiving tubes, such as the ECC88, were manufactured by RT under the watchful eye of Philips, rectifiers were manufactured in a division independent of Philips. For example, a commonly seen example is the Dario 5R4GY. So my best guess is that this 5Y3GB was manufactured in Suresnes, France, by La Radiotechnique.
> 
> Edit: I should note that this rectifier can provide at most 125 ma, so it is not suitable for use in the OTL, even with only four 6BL7. However, it would be fine in the EL3N


Thanks, Ken. I have one of this. Just curious if it's a rebranded tube. It looks quite different than those French produced Mazda 5Y3gb.


----------



## gibosi

Mazda-Belvue was a trademark of CIFTE (Compagnie Industrielle Française des Tubes Electroniques) in Paris. Tubes manufactured by CIFTE are indeed different than those manufactured by La Radiotechnique.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Congrats Mordy. That should be a nice Christmas present. I was and still am, very pleased with how my Whaferdale 10.1 plus sub sounded. Pity they get relegated to Home Theatre duties now but if it makes Fifth Elements sound good why not !


Instant gratification department non-exotic section:
Yesterday I decided to order the Elac Debut 6 speakers, and today they are here!
Substantial looking little black boxes. Dusted off some old 24" speaker stands from the 90's. Had to be careful not to spear anything in my snake nest of cables and wires with the spiked feet; was able to fit the stands in front of my old speakers. 





First impression: They sound different than my old speakers, more laid back and less in your face. The mid range is sweeter. And they need more power than my old Polk Monitor 50 plebeian speakers.
I have to get used to them. I am hopeful that I have cured my KEF LS50/Technics SB-C700 craving at almost a tenth of the cost.....
Starting to like them - that midrange is really nice....


----------



## 2359glenn

Nice looking little speakers


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy they are nice looking speakers. Having a new pair of speakers is in many ways more gratifying than having a new pair of headphones.

Just as I was about to post, I realise Glenn and I both said the same words... about the Elac being nice looking speakers.


----------



## MIKELAP (Nov 21, 2017)

gibosi said:


> What is that tube?


Looks like a Sophia Princess 274B Rectifier


----------



## leftside

MIKELAP said:


> Looks like a Sophia Princess 274B Rectifier


Yes - might well be. Looks pretty for photos, but I haven't used it in over a year. I should really sell that one.


----------



## Hansotek

mordy said:


> Instant gratification department non-exotic section:
> Yesterday I decided to order the Elac Debut 6 speakers, and today they are here!
> Substantial looking little black boxes. Dusted off some old 24" speaker stands from the 90's. Had to be careful not to spear anything in my snake nest of cables and wires with the spiked feet; was able to fit the stands in front of my old speakers.
> 
> ...



These are nice speakers. I have the Elac Uni-Fi UB5s, and I love em.


----------



## UntilThen

I just bought my last tubes. I promise attcmi it will be the last. 

They are a quad Los Gatos 6BX7. Had no idea what Los Gatos is. Sounds mexican to me. A google search says its a town in Santa Clare county in LA.


----------



## whirlwind

Can't go wrong with 6BX7 tubes for your amp Matt.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I just bought my last tubes. I promise attcmi it will be the last.
> 
> They are a quad Los Gatos 6BX7. Had no idea what Los Gatos is. Sounds mexican to me. A google search says its a town in Santa Clare county in LA.



And this:
http://pax-comm.com/pa01058.htm

Tubemonger sells some Lewis and Kaufman Los Gatos 6922 that are rebranded Amperex.


----------



## attmci (Nov 22, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I just bought my last tubes. I promise attcmi it will be the last.
> 
> They are a quad Los Gatos 6BX7. Had no idea what Los Gatos is. Sounds mexican to me. A google search says its a town in Santa Clare county in LA.


Arr... NO COMPETITION..... TOO BAD.

Sorry, who is attcmi?


----------



## mordy

Hansotek said:


> These are nice speakers. I have the Elac Uni-Fi UB5s, and I love em.


Hi Hansotek,

Don't know what the difference is between your speakers and my Debut 6 but I assume that they are similar. After 6-7 hours of playing the speakers are waking up and sound better and better - actually excellent. Don't know if I am allowed to say this, but to me they seem to have more bass impact and better controlled bass than my Beyerdynamic Gen1 T1's headphones (apologies to h1).

At the current sale price of $200/pair shipped I don't think that they can be beat.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Arr... NO COMPETITION..... TOO BAD.
> 
> Sorry, who is attcmi?


I think that attcmi works for Verizon lol


----------



## attmci (Dec 3, 2017)

gibosi said:


> Mazda-Belvue was a trademark of CIFTE (Compagnie Industrielle Française des Tubes Electroniques) in Paris. Tubes manufactured by CIFTE are indeed different than those manufactured by La Radiotechnique.


 This La Radiotechnique 5Y3gb rectifier (directly heated full-wave) is actually pretty good (for the price I got, about $20).

To be honest, the this "rare" La Radiotechnique 5Y3gb sounds better than Philips 5Y3 (more air, larger sound stage).


----------



## gibosi

I quite like the La Radiotechnique 54RGY, so if their 5Y3GB sounds similar, and if someone is interested in rolling rectifiers in their EL3N, this might be a good one to try....


----------



## gibosi

Listening to a pair of De Forest 427 triodes.  Lee de Forest invented the triode vacuum tube amplifier in 1906, which he called an "Audion". However, by 1923, he had lost his controlling interest in this company. And as a result of the Great Depression, the De Forest Radio Company folded in the summer of 1931. So these tubes were manufactured sometime between 1927, when Westinghouse first introduced this tube, and 1931.




While they look pretty neat at night with those perforated plates, unfortunately, these two are a bit too noisy...


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Listening to a pair of De Forest 427 triodes.  Lee de Forest invented the triode vacuum tube amplifier in 1906, which he called an "Audion". However, by 1923, he had lost his controlling interest in this company. And as a result of the Great Depression, the De Forest Radio Company folded in the summer of 1931. So these tubes were manufactured sometime between 1927, when Westinghouse first introduced this tube, and 1931.
> 
> 
> 
> While they look pretty neat at night with those perforated plates, unfortunately, these two are a bit too noisy...



Nice tube review Ken!


----------



## Hansotek

mordy said:


> Hi Hansotek,
> 
> Don't know what the difference is between your speakers and my Debut 6 but I assume that they are similar. After 6-7 hours of playing the speakers are waking up and sound better and better - actually excellent. Don't know if I am allowed to say this, but to me they seem to have more bass impact and better controlled bass than my Beyerdynamic Gen1 T1's headphones (apologies to h1).
> 
> At the current sale price of $200/pair shipped I don't think that they can be beat.



They are the next step up above the debut series in the Elac lineup. Elac Debut, Uni-Fi and Adante are each probably the best bang-for-buck speakers at their price points (regularly $279, $499 and $2,499, for a pair of bookshelf speakers respectively). You’d be hard-pressed to find a negative review on any of them, and having heard them all personally, it’s very easy to see why.

Anyway, good choice!


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> I quite like the La Radiotechnique 54RGY, so if their 5Y3GB sounds similar, and if someone is interested in rolling rectifiers in their EL3N, this might be a good one to try....


5R4GY?


----------



## gibosi

Yup, a typo! lol 

A Dario 5R4GYS manufactured by La Radiotechnique.


----------



## rosgr63

gibosi said:


> Listening to a pair of De Forest 427 triodes.  Lee de Forest invented the triode vacuum tube amplifier in 1906, which he called an "Audion". However, by 1923, he had lost his controlling interest in this company. And as a result of the Great Depression, the De Forest Radio Company folded in the summer of 1931. So these tubes were manufactured sometime between 1927, when Westinghouse first introduced this tube, and 1931.
> 
> 
> 
> While they look pretty neat at night with those perforated plates, unfortunately, these two are a bit too noisy...




Ken I have some of their 45's which according to one of my Italian audio gurus are one of the best sounding audio tubes.
I have them in my collection but as they are NOS I never tried them.


----------



## rosgr63

*HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!!*


----------



## attmci

rosgr63 said:


> *HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!!*


Same to you, my friend. 

I just found out a bunch of morons at SuperBAF (the admin is also an imbecile) .  Most of the friends here had been bullied on that site. STAY AWAY!


----------



## whirlwind

*Happy Thanksgiving  *Glenn, Lucy & everybody else here.
We have much to be thankful for.

I am hoping for a wonderful long weekend, love these four day weekends.

We are having the family over for Thanksgiving dinner and some football.

Leaving for Cleveland tomorrow and going to the rock & roll hall of fame and a tour of the Great Lakes brewing company, hoping to sample a couple of porters here.

Then Saturday night we are heading to the Connor Palace to see Joe Bonamassa and my wife ordered the tickets like seven months ago and she got us in row 4.
We are pretty excited.
https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...d=0ahUKEwjJ15mEzNTXAhUs9IMKHcYuBUwQoioIuQEwDg

Hope to grab some pictures to share here later.


----------



## rosgr63

Enjoy my friend, it sounds great!!!

GLBC?
A couple of porters just..........you must be a saint!!!!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Enjoy my friend, it sounds great!!!
> 
> GLBC?
> A couple of porters just..........you must be a saint!!!!!!!




Thanks Starvos.

I try


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> *Happy Thanksgiving  *Glenn, Lucy & everybody else here.
> We have much to be thankful for.
> 
> I am hoping for a wonderful long weekend, love these four day weekends.
> ...



Joe looks like you are going to have a fantastic weekend.
And to end it with Joe Bonamassa in row 4 is over the moon definitely post some pics if you can

Happy thanksgiving to you and your family
  Glenn


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Thanksgiving to all


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> Same to you, my friend.
> 
> I just found out a bunch of morons at SuperBAF (the admin is also an imbecile) .  Most of the friends here had been bullied on that site. STAY AWAY!



Horrible there see what happens when you say something the admin disagrees with. I was called a troll because I didn't sign up right and posted.
Not good there unless you agree with everything the admin says.


----------



## Rossliew

Happy Thanksgiving all !


----------



## MIKELAP

attmci said:


> Same to you, my friend.
> 
> I just found out a bunch of morons at SuperBAF (the admin is also an imbecile) .  Most of the friends here had been bullied on that site. STAY AWAY!


I couldnt agree more i was there for about a month a year or so ago what a bunch of D....


----------



## attmci

MIKELAP said:


> I couldnt agree more i was there for about a month a year or so ago what a bunch of D....



Mike, that's exactly what I found out this morning. You and Ken tried to help the others on the tube rolling thread there. HOWEVER, an admin asked you to roll caps.instead of tubes.

They are probably funded by EC etc. which is totally fine with me. But the way they treat personal is unacceptable.


----------



## MIKELAP

attmci said:


> Mike, that's exactly what I found out this morning. You and Ken tried to help the others on the tube rolling thread there. HOWEVER, an admin asked you to roll caps.instead of tubes.
> 
> They are probably funded by EC etc. which is totally fine with me. But the way they treat personal is unacceptable.


We all respect Ken for is knowledge when it comes to tubes and for him to be threated the way he was over there is unacceptable i repeat what a bunch of D.....


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Arr... NO COMPETITION..... TOO BAD.
> 
> Sorry, who is attcmi?



I mean attmci. A typo error is no fault of the mind. 



rnros said:


> And this:
> http://pax-comm.com/pa01058.htm
> 
> Tubemonger sells some Lewis and Kaufman Los Gatos 6922 that are rebranded Amperex.



Thanks mros. That's very informative. Now can you post more pictures of your GOTL and some more impressions.


----------



## UntilThen

A Happy Thanksgiving to all ..... even though we do not have a day set aside for it here down under. I think it's important. I'll give thanks for the music, for my tubes, for my amps, for my turntable, for my dac, for my TV, for my cables, for my fuses, for the empty boxes, heck I will even give thanks for the electricity for without it, it's useless.

On a more serious note, thanks for being a great bunch of guys. all of you. Never mind about the other forum. I don't visit it. The language used is just appalling. It's like they are trying to outdo each other by talking more vulgar. 

Joe have a great long weekend. Looks like a perfect weekend for you and yes do post some pics.


----------



## 2359glenn

Matt it might be better if you order the FDD20 to 12SN7 adapter from China. I have no access to this large base to make these.
If I order one I might have shipped the amp before I get it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...762507&hash=item2ee576a692:g:fmsAAOSwo6lWMz1q


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Glenn, sure. I know the seller MrsXuling well. I will order it myself.

Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

I think it will be easier that way.
Hope to have the amp finished by the end of this weekend.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I think it will be easier that way.
> Hope to have the amp finished by the end of this weekend.



That is good news. I'm really looking forward to it.

Don't worry about the FDD20 to 12SN7 adapter. I can order from that easily.


----------



## UntilThen

Bought 4 tubes but the seller surprised me by giving an extra free.

What a champ.


----------



## 2359glenn

Nice just need 1 more doesn't have to be the same brand.


----------



## UntilThen

I already have:-

6 x GE 6BX7GT
3 x FIVRE 6BX7GT
5 X LOS GATOS 6BX7GT

6 X SYLVANIA 6BL7GT/GTA
4 X GE 6BL7GTA

This should be sufficient.


----------



## 2359glenn

I think so.
The 6BX7 is better then the 6BL7 when using a C3g driver.
The 6BX7 has less gain to go along with the high gain C3g


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I already have:-
> 
> 6 x GE 6BX7GT
> 3 x FIVRE 6BX7GT
> ...


Who made the Los Gatos? I think GE and Sylvania were the main manufacturers. I have a Westinghouse and a RCA, both made by GE, and Philco, made by Sylvania.
You may also want to look for Japanese made 6BX7 tubes that should sound good. Raytheon had a deal with Hitachi, and I think that there are other Japanese brands as well.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Who made the Los Gatos?



This link by mros provides some clues. http://pax-comm.com/pa01058.htm


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> On a more serious note, thanks for being a great bunch of guys. all of you. Never mind about the other forum. I don't visit it. The language used is just appalling. It's like they are trying to outdo each other by talking more vulgar.



Matt a few years back I co-owned an Audio forum but as soon some people started posting unsuitable comments against my ethics full of irony and big headedness I took it down.
We can do with forums where people voice their opinion without getting verbal abuse, but we are free to disagree.
Head-fi is one of them and I am happy for it.
Through Head-fi I met some wonderful people true friends for life.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> This link by mros provides some clues. http://pax-comm.com/pa01058.htm



Los Gatos?
I thought it was a tequila brand..........


----------



## mordy

rosgr63 said:


> Los Gatos?
> I thought it was a tequila brand..........


Hi rosgr63,

Lewis & Kaufman Ltd, Los Gatos, CA    (USA)  
Lewis and Kaufman was a manufacturer of vacuum tube, known for its mark, nine wild cats, and the related advertising: 'With nine-plus lives built in'. It was existing up to around year 2000. RETMA Code 738.

Another comment pointing to rebranding:
It's hard to imagine somebody manufacturing tubes in a facility only 11,000 sq. ft. A couple of offices, a couple of restrooms, some storage shelves, a shipping/receiving dock and there's not going to be a lot of room left over. I can't see there possibly being room for all the various equipment required to actually make a tube from scratch. Maybe enough room for some printing equipment to print labels on somebody else's tubes.


----------



## rosgr63

Hi, I was joking.
 I have some of their tubes as well some of the original L&K and H&K tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Los Gatos?
> I thought it was a tequila brand..........





rosgr63 said:


> Hi, I was joking.
> I have some of their tubes as well some of the original L&K and H&K tubes.



Hehehe.... this lead up to Christmas we need some jokes lest you be stressed out with shopping. 

So get yourself some good tequila like these.


----------



## UntilThen

I've never been so prepared for any tube amp before. Ulysses home coming will be special.


----------



## 2359glenn

Oh my
I have been building Ulysses for most of the day just stopped to take a break.


----------



## UntilThen

Hehehe I had a big chuckle when I read that... I shall have a plague that reads... this will remind me of the effort that goes into the making of Ulysses. 

*I have been building Ulysses for most of the day just stopped to take a break.
~ Glenn ~
*
Suddenly Ulysses starts popping up in my vision. Here's a sign.

 

and the statute of Ulysses S Grant, the US Army General in the American Civil War.

 

and his famous quote...

_*I know only two tunes: one of them is 'Yankee Doodle', and the other one isn't.*_


----------



## UntilThen

So while waiting for Ulysses to come home, I'm giving the tubes some tender loving care. Wipe clean the glass with a wet cloth and apply Deoxit on the pins. Those brushes come with the Deoxit and are the right tools for the job.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> So while waiting for Ulysses to come home, I'm giving the tubes some tender loving care. Wipe clean the glass with a wet cloth and apply Deoxit on the pins. Those brushes come with the Deoxit and are the right tools for the job.


I know the feeling Matt, I know the feeling. It's like a kid waiting for Santa to drop his present at Christmas eve. Now, which DAC are you planning to feed Ulysses?


----------



## UntilThen

I'm feeding Ulysses everything not just the DAC. I have only one DAC now by the way. That's Yggdrasil.

Will also be feeding Ulysses my Rega RP8 and Pioneer PD D6 direct. The Pioneer has twin dacs.

Yeah I feel like a child now waiting for my toy.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> I'm feeding Ulysses everything not just the DAC. I have only one DAC now by the way. That's Yggdrasil.
> 
> Will also be feeding Ulysses my Rega RP8 and Pioneer PD D6 direct. The Pioneer has twin dacs.
> 
> Yeah I feel like a child now waiting for my toy.


Ah. Very nice. I think Freya (or Saga) will be very handy to switch different inputs. What say you?


----------



## UntilThen

No worries I prefer to switch manually or I have a al cheapo switch. 4 in 1 out.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> No worries I prefer to switch manually or I have a al cheapo switch. 4 in 1 out.


Of course.


----------



## UntilThen

On a night boat cruise now Chritmas party


----------



## UntilThen

Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge not bad right?


----------



## 2359glenn

You should have said you need multiple inputs could have done that.
Would have cost about $100 more with a quality Gold Point switch.


----------



## UntilThen

It's ok Glenn. I am only using turntable and CD player in the initial stage. Longer term I will only use PC to Yggdrasil and amp.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> On a night boat cruise now Chritmas party





UntilThen said:


> Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge not bad right?



Lovely photos Matt.


----------



## mordy

lukeap69 said:


> Lovely photos Matt.


Here is a day time picture of the top of the Harbor Bridge. The antlike creatures  are people who pay to walk across the bridge...


----------



## UntilThen

I will never pay to walk up there. I am afraid of heights !!!

After a night of drinking and some crazy movements on the dance floor, I need a bit of recovery now.

What better recovery than to listen to Sibelius Symphony No 2.


----------



## lukeap69

mordy said:


> Here is a day time picture of the top of the Harbor Bridge. The antlike creatures  are people who pay to walk across the bridge...


Wow! Thanks for sharing mordy.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> I will never pay to walk up there. I am afraid of heights !!!
> 
> After a night of drinking and some crazy movements on the dance floor, I need a bit of recovery now.
> 
> What better recovery than to listen to Sibelius Symphony No 2.



Ella Fitzgerald & London Symphony Orchestra is soothing to!!!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Have b


rosgr63 said:


> Ella Fitzgerald & London Symphony Orchestra is soothing to!!!!!!!



Stavros looks like you are a vinyl lover.


----------



## UntilThen

This 4 LPs album will be some of the tracks I will be putting Ulysses to the test. Sounds simply gorgeous through the speakers.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 27, 2017)

Sounds like you will be getting your amp very soon Matt.

You should be excited, it will be a wonderful amp and you have some real good times ahead!

We just got back from our long weekend from Cleveland , Ohio

Had some great meals and some great cocktails and a wonderful time at the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame.

Very much enjoyed the small theatre at the Hall of Fame......the sound in it was sublime.

The best part of the trip for me was the JB concert and my wife killed it with the tickets she got.

I wish we had a better camera, we only had a Sony point and shoot digital and my wife's cell phone.

I can not recommend seeing any other live performance more than this, but especially if you like guitar oriented music.
It truly is quite the experience. We also had the privilege of meeting some new "Bonnabuddies"



Two semi trailers full of gear!











Hard to see, but  in the picture above there are four 1950's tweed amps behind those baffles, all tube powered and this is what Joe used to power all his guitars for the evening..with no fancy foot pedals, what a wonderful sound!










My wife has more pictures on her cell phone she needs to get transfered the the pc...may have more to share later.


----------



## rosgr63

Great photos Joe, thanks for sharing.

I'm pleased you enjoyed your long weekend and had an amazing time.

Lesson learned be good to the boss............


----------



## UntilThen

Joe you're everything I imagine you to be. Happy, cheerful and good natured guy. 

Thanks for sharing the photos. I'm sure you had a blast of a time.

I spend the day playing my LPs and really enjoying music on my speakers system. I am also thinking of Ulysses. I think it will be a special amp. My excitement is building.


----------



## 2359glenn

Joe
Great pics I am sure you had a great time
Is that your wife and you in front of the JB truck?


----------



## rosgr63

I thought it was the beer lorry............


----------



## UntilThen

I thought it's the Transformer.


----------



## 2359glenn

I am also thinking of Ulysses. I think it will be a special amp. My excitement is building.[/QUOTE]

I didn't finish it over the long weekend but it is very close to being done.
Then I will burn it in a couple of days before I ship
Plan on buy the end of the week. 2 weeks to get there you should have it before Christmas. 
If customs there don't hold it up?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I am also thinking of Ulysses. I think it will be a special amp. My excitement is building.



I didn't finish it over the long weekend but it is very close to being done.
Then I will burn it in a couple of days before I ship
Plan on buy the end of the week. 2 weeks to get there you should have it before Christmas.
If customs there don't hold it up?[/QUOTE]

Thanks Glenn. You put a lot of effort into this amp working over the long weekend. It is much appreciated.

Never had a problem with customs before so it should be fine.


----------



## UntilThen

@ru4music I suppose you received Scarlett and have hidden yourself in your man cave listening to it.

Pictures and impressions please....

Don't do a gone with the wind.


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Great photos Joe, thanks for sharing.
> 
> I'm pleased you enjoyed your long weekend and had an amazing time.
> 
> Lesson learned be good to the boss............


Yes, I learned my lesson long ago.






UntilThen said:


> Joe you're everything I imagine you to be. Happy, cheerful and good natured guy.
> 
> Thanks for sharing the photos. I'm sure you had a blast of a time.
> 
> I spend the day playing my LPs and really enjoying music on my speakers system. I am also thinking of Ulysses. I think it will be a special amp. My excitement is building.


Thanks for the kind words, not sure my wife would agree with that though  
We did indeed have a great time, it was fun.






2359glenn said:


> I thought it was the beer lorry............


Ha! You would have thought they could have used one of those trucks for the beer lorry.
I like the way you think.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Joe
> Great pics I am sure you had a great time
> Is that your wife and you in front of the JB truck?



Yes, that is my better half and my fat butt!  
The belly is getting bigger all the time...good food and beer will do that, and the older I get, the more ok I am with it.


----------



## UntilThen

I just realise it was Sept 30th 2017 that I got on this thread and ordered the OTL amp. That's less than 2 months. That's an amazing turn around time from a specialist tube amp builder. Thanks Glenn !!!


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> @ru4music I suppose you received Scarlett and have hidden yourself in your man cave listening to it.
> 
> Pictures and impressions please....
> 
> Don't do a gone with the wind.



Yes, I have received it and I haven't forgot about posting my impressions.  I really need to burn-in 100 to 200 hours before I can conclude anything myself (have 30 to 40 now.)  I had an issue with an infamous EL3N socket on one of the driver stages when I first received it (nothing but noise on the right channel in 2 stage mode.)  I worked with @2359glenn to isolate the issue and have put in a work around (see green cable tie strip below ) until my NOS sockets arrive from overseas and I can replace it.



As far as sound I have gone from flat and veiled (new) to tighter/ extended bass and more forward/ open mid-range.  It's taking about 3 to 4 hours of warm up time before the EL3Ns are at their best presently.  I replaced the 3DG4 rect. with a UE 596 rect. tube and that seems to have brought out more detail.  As stated before, EL3Ns and their associated sockets can be noisy and micro-phonic (I'm finding that to be true!)  On to another listening session tonight (lit the tubes a couple of hours ago.)


----------



## mordy

ru4music said:


> Yes, I have received it and I haven't forgot about posting my impressions.  I really need to burn-in 100 to 200 hours before I can conclude anything myself (have 30 to 40 now.)  I had an issue with an infamous EL3N socket on one of the driver stages when I first received it (nothing but noise on the right channel in 2 stage mode.)  I worked with @2359glenn to isolate the issue and have put in a work around (see green cable tie strip below ) until my NOS sockets arrive from overseas and I can replace it.
> 
> 
> As far as sound I have gone from flat and veiled (new) to tighter/ extended bass and more forward/ open mid-range.  It's taking about 3 to 4 hours of warm up time before the EL3Ns are at their best presently.  I replaced the 3DG4 rect. with a UE 596 rect. tube and that seems to have brought out more detail.  As stated before, EL3Ns and their associated sockets can be noisy and micro-phonic (I'm finding that to be true!)  On to another listening session tonight (lit the tubes a couple of hours ago.)


Hi,

Speaking of burn in, I just received my Massdrop HD6xx  aka Sennheiser HD650. How long is the burn in time for these headphones?
I am trying to compare them to my Beyerdynamic T1 Gen1 but they are so new that I can only say that they are different....


----------



## UntilThen

Good to hear from you ru4. Sorry to hear about the socket but I'm sure it will be fixed soon.

Those EL3Ns do need a lengthy burn in and your initial impressions of it are very much in line with mine when I was running EL3Ns in Elise. Once really burn in, they open up with a nice rich texture.

Quite a few people had problems with EL3Ns on the adapters in Elise. Noise and microphonic are what they report too. I had none of those issues. The issue is with the contact of the tube with the adapter plates I believe. If those plates are pushed in too much, you will get those problems. The contact is not quite there. You can leverage out those plates with a small flat screw driver. Gently insert it into the bottom of each plate and push it up gently with a fulcrum motion.

Anyway happy for you that you are getting the hours into the GEL3N. Waiting to hear further reports from you.


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> Yes, I have received it and I haven't forgot about posting my impressions.  I really need to burn-in 100 to 200 hours before I can conclude anything myself (have 30 to 40 now.)  I had an issue with an infamous EL3N socket on one of the driver stages when I first received it (nothing but noise on the right channel in 2 stage mode.)  I worked with @2359glenn to isolate the issue and have put in a work around (see green cable tie strip below ) until my NOS sockets arrive from overseas and I can replace it.
> 
> 
> As far as sound I have gone from flat and veiled (new) to tighter/ extended bass and more forward/ open mid-range.  It's taking about 3 to 4 hours of warm up time before the EL3Ns are at their best presently.  I replaced the 3DG4 rect. with a UE 596 rect. tube and that seems to have brought out more detail.  As stated before, EL3Ns and their associated sockets can be noisy and micro-phonic (I'm finding that to be true!)  On to another listening session tonight (lit the tubes a couple of hours ago.)




It takes a couple of hours for these tubes to shine and settle in ....wonderful sounding tubes, but they can be finicky.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Speaking of burn in, I just received my Massdrop HD6xx  aka Sennheiser HD650. How long is the burn in time for these headphones?
> I am trying to compare them to my Beyerdynamic T1 Gen1 but they are so new that I can only say that they are different....



Mordy, at least 100 to 150 hours. When I first had my HD650 I hated the fit on my head. It was really tight. I could not wear them for long. I left them hanging on the box it came in when I'm not listening to them. After a few months, the tightness went away. It's now the most comfortable headphone in my stable. Even more comfortable than HD800. Who would have known that.

T1 Gen 1 and HD650 are on opposite side of the spectrum. T1 is very revealing in the high frequencies. The mid range is more recessed compared to a HE560 but I love the tight impactful bass. With the HD650, you will notice the mids. It will have your attention. Lovely mids. Treble definitely seems loped off if you're coming from a T1. Bass, especially mid bass is full and blossomed compare to T1's bass. As much as I have a preference for details, I still like the HD650. On some genres like the blues, it's a headphone to strap on and just let the blues get to you. 

But.... if you ever get a ZMF Atticus, you will find the HD650 sitting on the headphone stand. 

That said, I need to get the LCD-2f back from my son. He's borrowed it too long. I want all my headphones with me when Ulysses comes home.


----------



## ru4music

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Speaking of burn in, I just received my Massdrop HD6xx  aka Sennheiser HD650. How long is the burn in time for these headphones?
> I am trying to compare them to my Beyerdynamic T1 Gen1 but they are so new that I can only say that they are different....



Depends somewhat on the amp but 100 hours should put you in the +90% range.


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> It takes a couple of hours for these tubes to shine and settle in ....wonderful sounding tubes, but they can be finicky.


Yes, not the tube type I would recommend for an inexperienced 1st time tube amp user, as you need to see past it's cantankerous tendencies.


----------



## mordy

ru4music said:


> Depends somewhat on the amp but 100 hours should put you in the +90% range.


Thanks for the answers about burning in. Is there anything wrong leaving the headphones plugged in to my PC and playing varied music continuously for a couple of days? Or better to give the headphones some rest here and there?
- Never found the answer to this re headphones or speakers. However, it seems that for tubes the consensus is to run the tubes for some eight hours and them let them rest.
Fact or fiction?


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, at least 100 to 150 hours. When I first had my HD650 I hated the fit on my head. It was really tight. I could not wear them for long. I left them hanging on the box it came in when I'm not listening to them. After a few months, the tightness went away. It's now the most comfortable headphone in my stable. Even more comfortable than HD800. Who would have known that.
> 
> T1 Gen 1 and HD650 are on opposite side of the spectrum. T1 is very revealing in the high frequencies. The mid range is more recessed compared to a HE560 but I love the tight impactful bass. With the HD650, you will notice the mids. It will have your attention. Lovely mids. Treble definitely seems loped off if you're coming from a T1. Bass, especially mid bass is full and blossomed compare to T1's bass. As much as I have a preference for details, I still like the HD650. On some genres like the blues, it's a headphone to strap on and just let the blues get to you.
> 
> ...


Hi UT,
Thanks for your analysis of the difference between the HD650 and the T1 - I am sure that I will agree with you once the headphones are burned in.
I did feel the clamping effect, but I am getting used to it. Anybody has a problem with the earcups feeling too warm after a while?


----------



## jekjek

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Thanks for your analysis of the difference between the HD650 and the T1 - I am sure that I will agree with you once the headphones are burned in.
> I did feel the clamping effect, but I am getting used to it. Anybody has a problem with the earcups feeling too warm after a while?


Hi Mordy,

I had the Senn 650 and it does get warm after about an hour. 

Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy it should be fine leaving the music playing with your headphones or speakers but I personally don't like leaving my amps on for extended length of time unattended.

Regarding the hd650 pads being warm I think you need to get adjusted to headphone listening. Especially if you have been used to speakers, listening to headphones will take a while to get adjusted with the fit.

Some pads are more comfortable than others. I find the Eikon pads the best for comfort.


----------



## UntilThen

I will have the pleasure of listening to the Axis VoiceBox S this afternoon when Jon Reilly brings it over to my place. This seems like a nice review. 

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/axis/1.html


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I will have the pleasure of listening to the Axis VoiceBox S this afternoon when Jon Reilly brings it over to my place. This seems like a nice review.
> 
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/axis/1.html


Hi UT,

Got a laugh out this picture:







Under the binding posts it says: Designed in Australia
                                                   Proudly made in China

Why is this funny to me? Because I saw a sticker (can't remember the product) that said:
                                                   Designed in China
                                                   Proudly made in the US

Anyhow, if the Voicebox is too expensive at $2500 you could always take off one digit and buy a pair of Elac Debut B6 for $200 and have spare change. They really are very good sounding speakers.


----------



## ru4music

mordy said:


> Thanks for the answers about burning in. Is there anything wrong leaving the headphones plugged in to my PC and playing varied music continuously for a couple of days? Or better to give the headphones some rest here and there?
> - Never found the answer to this re headphones or speakers. However, it seems that for tubes the consensus is to run the tubes for some eight hours and them let them rest.
> Fact or fiction?


Your fine with extended burning-in with your PC.  The eight hour limit is based on tubes running contentiously from an amp.


----------



## ru4music

Scarlett has been on (lit) for several hours now and is sounding very good; more 300B mid voice and 45 tube space!   Eat-your-heart-out @UntilThen   May I be, "gone in the wind", blowing Ulysses your way!!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy, this afternoon I heard the heavens open and a host of angels singing. The Axis VoiceBox S is a high fidelity monitor that sends goosebumps up my spine because I hear the singer and the musicians right here in my living room.

I want this now. It's my yardstick for measuring what's a good tone. What's great is that I can get a pair at a special price from John Reilly.

These speakers fills my lounge with a theatre ambience and belies their diminitive size. 

Here's a pic. They are available in white or black piano grade paint finish that will outclass a BMW paint job.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Scarlett has been on (lit) for several hours now and is sounding very good; more 300B mid voice and 45 tube space!   Eat-your-heart-out @UntilThen   May I be, "gone in the wind", blowing Ulysses your way!!!!!!



Don't burn in too fast! Let me get Ulysses and catch up with your burning. I will guarantee you a bonfire.  

Wait till you hear Ulysses sing. When I get Ulysses, I will be reading the novel Ulysses by James Joyce while burning in the amp. Ulysses is heralded as the best novel in the English language and the hardest to read. When James Joyce finish writing Ulysses, he was so exhausted he didn't write another line of prose for one whole year.


----------



## UntilThen

Another pic of the VoiceBox. The sound is so dynamic, tight and punchy. There's bite, bite and more bite. It's tighter than a fitting pair of Calvin Klein jean. Notes start and stop faster than a formula one car.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Don't burn in too fast! Let me get Ulysses and catch up with your burning. I will guarantee you a bonfire.
> 
> Wait till you hear Ulysses sing. When I get Ulysses, I will be reading the novel Ulysses by James Joyce while burning in the amp. Ulysses is heralded as the best novel in the English language and the hardest to read. When James Joyce finish writing Ulysses, he was so exhausted he didn't write another line of prose for one whole year.



As my college professor used to say, you don't "read" Joyce, you "re-read" Joyce. And Joyce purportedly said something like, "It took me 7 years to write this book so it ought to take the reader 7 years to read it!"


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> As my college professor used to say, you don't "read" Joyce, you "re-read" Joyce. And Joyce purportedly said something like, "It took me 7 years to write this book so it ought to take the reader 7 years to read it!"



I think I will forget about Joyce and take up vegetable farming instead. Within 7 years I should be able to grow something.


----------



## gibosi

Rather than vegetables, I suggest that you deliberately grow weeds. Guaranteed success in one year! lol


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Rather than vegetables, I suggest that you deliberately grow weeds. Guaranteed success in one year! lol



Even I could not take this seriously. Growing weeds? Really? What would my good neighbours think.


----------



## UntilThen

Listening to the Axis VoiceBox S this afternoon makes me realised that I actually love 2 very different sounding speakers. The VoiceBox is a very revealing monitor that also happen to sound musical. Fast transient response, outstanding vocals, precise stereo imaging and a tight controlled bass. Listening to Eva Cassidy sing 'Bridge Over Troubled Waters' I was visibly moved by the emotions in her voice. Move aside Garfunkel, Eva's a better singer. 2nd track was a drum piece and I stopped breathing for a second. The toms, cymbal, hi-hats and bass drums sounds so real !!! This tiny speaker thrive on power. Feed it the 265w 4ohms Redgum and hear the VoiceBox sing. It's glorious.

Now with the VoiceBox gone, I'm back with my floor standers Axis LS88. This is the other aspect of the sound that I love. This is full on, the low ends dig deep and with authority. You will feel the bass and who doesn't like solid bass and I mean really solid. Like hits you in the chest. Listening to Sade now, I find my body moving in rhythm with the song. When the tone is great, you will react this way.

Which leads me to Ulysses. I haven't gotten the amp yet but I have a pretty good idea the different tones that that amp is capable of producing with the many different tube combinations. I have faith that I will be able to hear the 2 tones that I love in the descriptions above, in Ulysses and that my head-fi setup will be as enjoyable as my stereo system. I will find out soon.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> Even I could not take this seriously. Growing weeds? Really? What would my good neighbours think.



Ulysses loved nature..............


----------



## whirlwind

Last of the pictures, at least the ones that turned out any good at all.


----------



## rosgr63

Great photos, nice hall.

I like the photo of you and your better half best.
Your lady has such a lovely face I can't imagine her giving you a hard time ever.

BTW your smile Joe is tops no wonder you can get away with new gear no questions asked!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

What a wonderful couple you are Joe. Your wife sharing your passion at a Bonamassa's performance. 

Similarly I envy you on the live performance. Nothing like a live performance. That said, in the quiet of the morning. I sat and listen to Eva Cassidy rendition of 'What A Wonderful World' on Eikon powered by Ragnarok. As much as I love the stereo system, I have to say that the head-fi system never fail to please me. The tonality is great, intimate and extends beyond the headphones. I do miss the euphoria from a tube amp though. Ragnarok is great. Precise, focus and with a hint of tube amp goodness. Gutsy and powerful but tubes does only what tubes does best. A coloration that makes a Picasso even better.


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Great photos, nice hall.
> 
> I like the photo of you and your better half best.
> Your lady has such a lovely face I can't imagine her giving you a hard time ever.
> ...



You are correct, she is definitely the better half, no question, but I could no way get away with buying any gear I wanted...just in my dreams only.
I 





UntilThen said:


> What a wonderful couple you are Joe. Your wife sharing your passion at a Bonamassa's performance.
> 
> Similarly I envy you on the live performance. Nothing like a live performance. That said, in the quiet of the morning. I sat and listen to Eva Cassidy rendition of 'What A Wonderful World' on Eikon powered by Ragnarok. As much as I love the stereo system, I have to say that the head-fi system never fail to please me. The tonality is great, intimate and extends beyond the headphones. I do miss the euphoria from a tube amp though. Ragnarok is great. Precise, focus and with a hint of tube amp goodness. Gutsy and powerful but tubes does only what tubes does best. A coloration that makes a Picasso even better.





rosgr63 said:


> Great photos, nice hall.





UntilThen said:


> What a wonderful couple you are Joe. Your wife sharing your passion at a Bonamassa's performance.
> 
> Similarly I envy you on the live performance. Nothing like a live performance. That said, in the quiet of the morning. I sat and listen to Eva Cassidy rendition of 'What A Wonderful World' on Eikon powered by Ragnarok. As much as I love the stereo system, I have to say that the head-fi system never fail to please me. The tonality is great, intimate and extends beyond the headphones. I do miss the euphoria from a tube amp though. Ragnarok is great. Precise, focus and with a hint of tube amp goodness. Gutsy and powerful but tubes does only what tubes does best. A coloration that makes a Picasso even better.



I can not listen to speakers anymore...I can not play them loud enough to enjoy without disturbing others...so headphones it is for me....got to say though, i have never looked back as I love the intimacy of them  
I just love music and headphones make that happen very well for me...could not imagine a life without music.


----------



## jerick70

Hey everyone.  I'm a long time Woo owner and I've had my interest peaked from a discussion in the Woo thread on Glenn's amp offerings.  So what gives with the huge detail retrieval differences that I've read about with Glenn's 300b and the WA5?  Obviously the Glenn studio amp is reported to be a much better amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Hello Jerick, long time no see.

Regarding the Glenn 300b and Wa5 details differences, you have to ask @Badas and specifically TonyNewman because they had the opportunity to listen to both amps side by side.

That wonderful 300b amp belong to Tony.


----------



## jerick70

UntilThen said:


> Hello Jerick, long time no see.
> 
> Regarding the Glenn 300b and Wa5 details differences, you have to ask @Badas and specifically TonyNewman because they had the opportunity to listen to both amps side by side.
> 
> That wonderful 300b amp belong to Tony.


Hey UT.  Yeah, long time no talk.  It's great to talk to you again.  So you've moved on from the Elise it appears.

I currently own the Woo WA5.  I really enjoy it.  If there is greener grass on the Glenn side of the 300b fence I may jump.  I've tried quite a few amps since my Elise days and settled on 300b goodness of the WA5.  

It was Badas that I was talking with about it.  He is saying that it is a "Night and Day" difference between the two amps.  The Glenn amp getting the best of the Woo.  I wish I could listen to them side by side.  I HATE making blind purchases.


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> Hey everyone.  I'm a long time Woo owner and I've had my interest peaked from a discussion in the Woo thread on Glenn's amp offerings.  So what gives with the huge detail retrieval differences that I've read about with Glenn's 300b and the WA5?  Obviously the Glenn studio amp is reported to be a much better amp.



Side by side the Glenn was warm and natural. WA5 was leaner. 
What really made me go wow! was the fact that not only was the Glenn warmer it had more high treble detail. 
On one particular track (Foggy Mountain dew) I could hear the tape source like SS. On the WA5 it was gone. 

Both amps were running TAK 300B's and CG3 drivers (WA5 had adapter installed). Just the rectification was different.


----------



## jerick70

Badas said:


> Side by side the Glenn was warm and natural. WA5 was leaner.
> What really made me go wow! was the fact that not only was the Glenn warmer it had more high treble detail.
> On one particular track (Foggy Mountain dew) I could hear the tape source like SS. On the WA5 it was gone.
> 
> Both amps were running TAK 300B's and CG3 drivers (WA5 had adapter installed). Just the rectification was different.


Hmm, very interesting.  So what is one of these going to set me back @2359glenn ?  @Badas was this a stock 300b or was it customized?


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> Hmm, very interesting.  So what is one of these going to set me back @2359glenn ?  @Badas was this a stock 300b or was it customized?



It was a standard amp that Glenn makes with the Lundahl transformers upgrade. 
I think there was something else added as well. Volume control I think.


----------



## UntilThen

Jerick, there is always greener grass. Didn't I tell you to get off the train before it's too late? 

Any way, the 300b should be around the WA5 price range. Talk to Glenn. He's wonderful to deal with and you can have any customisations you want.

I have an OTL amp coming from Glenn maybe just in time for Christmas.


----------



## TonyNewman

I sold my WA5 after getting the Glenn 300B. The Glenn is a much, much better amp in most ways to my ears. Compared to the latest WA5 pricing, the Glenn might even be cheaper (which is crazy - I would eat my Glenn amp before returning to a WA5).

WA5 (old version) required very high end tubes to get decent levels of dynamics and detail IMHO. About as good as I ever had it was with TA300B / TA274B / C3g (or perhaps TSRP drivers). Those Taks don't come cheap.

WA5 sound is very euphonic and musical - and that can be great with the right tracks. Otherwise it kinda falls apart.

The Glenn is something else entirely. A tube amp with dynamics and detail that only the very best SS amps can beat. I switched out the PY500 rectification for solid state (with a soft start switch). I believe this is something that Glenn can do - I had mine modded locally. Result is a superb amp - SS technicalities with some tube character. The warmer / richer 300Bs work best for me as the C3g driver is very transparent and the rectification is SS. So I prefer TA300B and EML mesh ... etc. Tubes with a warm and rich character.


----------



## Badas

TonyNewman said:


> I sold my WA5 after getting the Glenn 300B. The Glenn is a much, much better amp in most ways to my ears. Compared to the latest WA5 pricing, the Glenn might even be cheaper (which is crazy - I would eat my Glenn amp before returning to a WA5).
> 
> WA5 (old version) required very high end tubes to get decent levels of dynamics and detail IMHO. About as good as I ever had it was with TA300B / TA274B / C3g (or perhaps TSRP drivers). Those Taks don't come cheap.
> 
> ...



Great. You reported in. Your amp so you should know more than me.


----------



## TonyNewman

Badas said:


> Great. You reported in. Your amp so you should know more than me.



Hey Mate - I mostly lurk now. Glenn thread is one of the few I still read 

A Glenn 300B amp with TA300Bs, driving a HEKv2 or HD800S (or just anything else TOTL) is rather awesome.

One word of caution though - high grade 300Bs are pricey and the amp generates considerable heat.


----------



## gibosi

Badas said:


> Side by side the Glenn was warm and natural. WA5 was leaner.
> What really made me go wow! was the fact that not only was the Glenn warmer it had more high treble detail.
> On one particular track (Foggy Mountain dew) I could hear the tape source like SS. On the WA5 it was gone.
> 
> *Both amps were running TAK 300B's and CG3 drivers (WA5 had adapter installed). *Just the rectification was different.



It is important to remember that the Glenn is designed from the bottom up to use the C3g driver. Installing a C3g into a 6SN7 socket via an adapter in the WA5 is not at all comparable. The biasing of a 6SN7 is very different than that of a C3g. So one might say that a C3g is just not very "comfortable" in a WA5.

Even so, my hunch is that even if Woo redesigned the WA5 to use the C3g, it still wouldn't sound as good as the Glenn.


----------



## TonyNewman

gibosi said:


> It is important to remember that the Glenn is designed from the bottom up to use the C3g driver. Installing a C3g into a 6SN7 socket via an adapter in the WA5 is not at all comparable. The biasing of a 6SN7 is very different than that of a C3g. So one might say that a C3g is just not very "comfortable" in a WA5.
> 
> Even so, my hunch is that even if Woo redesigned the WA5 to use the C3g, it still wouldn't sound as good as the Glenn.



I also ran the WA5 with TS RPs as the drivers. Amongst the best 6F8G/6SN7 tubes out there. C3Gs were significantly more transparent - something the WA5 needs help with, I think. Still would take the Glenn 300B against a TA300B/TA274B/TS RP WA5.


----------



## UntilThen

Having heard the Woo Audio WA5 at a recent meet, I thought it sounded superb. The accompanying gear were Yggdrasil with Utopia, Abyss, HD800 and Eikon. It's a full on big tube sound with superb clarity and details galore.

However the Glenn 300b amp seems a different beast altogether from the views presented by Tony and Badas. This looks like a must have Christmas present 3 years from now. I'll start by selling the gold fishes, tortoise, rabbit, chickens, orchids, lime or whatever I can spare and work towards that goal.

Meanwhile, I'm not to be distracted while awaiting the home coming of Ulysses. This is a wonder OTL amp and I think Christmas 2017 will be unforgettable.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> It is important to remember that the Glenn is designed from the bottom up to use the C3g driver.



I hear ya !!! For a long time, I've use C3Gs in Elise and Euforia with adapters. Now for the first time, I'll be using C3Gs in Ulysses without adapters, in an amp specifically designed for it. I can't wait to hear they will sound with 6 x 6BX7 in the amp. This will be the most anticipated event for me in 2017 and it will close out the year nicely.

I examine my C3Gs closely. Both Siemens and Telefunkens C3Gs pins are dipped in gold.  And this is where I will burst the myth of whether the Siemens C3G and Telefunken C3G/s are identical twins or perhaps they are Cain and Abel.

Siemens on the left and Telefunken on the right.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Having heard the Woo Audio WA5 at a recent meet, I thought it sounded superb. The accompanying gear were Yggdrasil with Utopia, Abyss, HD800 and Eikon. It's a full on big tube sound with superb clarity and details galore.
> 
> However the Glenn 300b amp seems a different beast altogether from the views presented by Tony and Badas. This looks like a must have Christmas present 3 years from now. I'll start by selling the gold fishes, tortoise, rabbit, chickens, orchids, lime or whatever I can spare and work towards that goal.
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm not to be distracted while awaiting the home coming of Ulysses. This is a wonder OTL amp and I think Christmas 2017 will be unforgettable.




Ha ha ha   

Great post.


----------



## 2359glenn

Matt

Your amp is finished am listening to Pink Floyd dark side of the moon at the moment.
Plan on burning it in all night with a FM tuner hooked to it.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn this is the best news in 2017 for me. What tubes do you have in the amp for Dark Side of the Moon?

Can you post a pic of the finished amp. Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

I will take a pix tomorrow getting ready for bed get up for work at 3:30am.
Using a 1633/25SN7 driver and two RCA 6AS7s. Tomorrow I will use the C3g with 6336 output tubes.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> Having heard the Woo Audio WA5 at a recent meet, I thought it sounded superb. The accompanying gear were Yggdrasil with Utopia, Abyss, HD800 and Eikon. It's a full on big tube sound with superb clarity and details galore.
> 
> However the Glenn 300b amp seems a different beast altogether from the views presented by Tony and Badas. This looks like a must have Christmas present 3 years from now. I'll start by selling the gold fishes, tortoise, rabbit, chickens, orchids, lime or whatever I can spare and work towards that goal.
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm not to be distracted while awaiting the home coming of Ulysses. This is a wonder OTL amp and I think Christmas 2017 will be unforgettable.



Each to their own. MIne WA5 was the older version - not sure of that makes much difference as I have never seen or heard the new version.

Anyway, my experience was that even with the mega expensive Taks and TS RPs (about as good a tube set as there is) the WA5 did not compete with the Glenn 300B except on midrange warmth / richness. On slower vocal tracks the WA5 did shine. For anything else the Glenn ate the WA5. YMMV.


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> Each to their own. MIne WA5 was the older version - not sure of that makes much difference as I have never seen or heard the new version.
> 
> Anyway, my experience was that even with the mega expensive Taks and TS RPs (about as good a tube set as there is) the WA5 did not compete with the Glenn 300B except on midrange warmth / richness. On slower vocal tracks the WA5 did shine. For anything else the Glenn ate the WA5. YMMV.



Much interest have been generated on Glenn 300b from your impressions. That is a very good thing.

Glenn does not advertise or need to. The growing owner base of Glenn's amp all provide very favourable impressions of his amps. I'm about to join this small but growing group of owners. I'll start off with the OTL amp.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I will take a pix tomorrow getting ready for bed get up for work at 3:30am.
> Using a 1633/25SN7 driver and two RCA 6AS7s. Tomorrow I will use the C3g with 6336 output tubes.



I find it a very enriching experience that I am able to interact with the designer / creator of my amp in real time while the built is ongoing. I've not had this experience before. It's priceless. 

I have one question on where I slot in the power tubes. If I'm using just one pair of 6AS7, do I need to mount them in a particular slot? There are 3 slots for power tubes. Does it matter if I mount the pair of power tubes on slot 1, 2 or 3?


----------



## 2359glenn

No as long as one tube is in the right 3 sockets and one in the left 3.
Just has to be one on each side or only one side will have output.


----------



## mordy (Nov 30, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I hear ya !!! For a long time, I've use C3Gs in Elise and Euforia with adapters. Now for the first time, I'll be using C3Gs in Ulysses without adapters, in an amp specifically designed for it. I can't wait to hear they will sound with 6 x 6BX7 in the amp. This will be the most anticipated event for me in 2017 and it will close out the year nicely.
> 
> I examine my C3Gs closely. Both Siemens and Telefunkens C3Gs pins are dipped in gold.  And this is where I will burst the myth of whether the Siemens C3G and Telefunken C3G/s are identical twins or perhaps they are Cain and Abel.
> Hi UT,
> ...


----------



## mordy

Hi,

I was astounded to watch this. Here is a little 9 year old girl playing the lead violin in a violin concerto with a philharmonic orchestra. I guess that she does not need notes since she wrote the piece herself.....
Apparently, she is just as talented at the piano as the violin.



Totally amazing.....


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy, that little girl is very cheerful and skillful. However there are a lot of child prodigy. Mozart started playing in public at the age of 6. 

Me? I don't even have a ukulele but I'm content to just listen to what others play. Ulysses is currently burning in. He is coming home soon. It's unbelievable.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, that little girl is very cheerful and skillful. However there are a lot of child prodigy. Mozart started playing in public at the age of 6.
> 
> You are right - this girl is a little Mozart, and she performed in public well before she was 6. When asked in an interview if she would like to be a Mozart she said that that would be boring - she wants to come up with new things.
> There are many YouTube videos of her, one more amazing than the next. When interviewed, she speaks with the poise and maturity of an adult.


----------



## 2359glenn

UT
I am listening to your amp with Audio-Technica 32 ohm closed back phones.
Using the 1633 and 6336 outputs sounding good with these hard to drive phones.


----------



## UntilThen

Excellent. I can't wait to try out my new Cetron 6336b tubes. These are as solidly constructed as Bendix 6080wb and is cheaper but at 5a each, they can only be used in amp that are designed for it.


----------



## UntilThen

Run in 6 x 6bl7 or 6bx7 at some point and tell me how it sound.


----------



## 2359glenn

OK 
will try 6BL7s tomorrow.


----------



## Rossliew

The anticipation is palpable....


----------



## jekjek

GOTL is the best headphone amp I have ever had.
You will not be disappointed


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> The anticipation is palpable....



This is the 3rd headphone amp that I've ordered in the last 2 years. The turn around time for this is incredibly fast, thanks to Glenn.  Of the 3 amps, this gives me the most excitement because of the many positive experiences of previous owners and the incredible tube combinations. I thought with all the frenzied gear buying this year, I'll be cool by now but this OTL amp kind of tops it all. The anticipation is great indeed and Glenn is shipping it out by Monday.



jekjek said:


> GOTL is the best headphone amp I have ever had.
> You will not be disappointed



Last night was the first time, I attempted to read through this thread. I only got to page 731 but I am reading all the positive impressions by everyone who have this OTL amp. This year I've had the opportunity to sample a lot of amps at Meets or at HiFi shops. A list of amps that I thought sounded good. Violectric V281, Ragnarok, Simeaudio Moon Neo 430HAD, Woo Audio Wa22, Wa5, Wa33. I also finally get to listen to a Bottlehead Crack with Speedball. Then I have amps that I actually owned and that includes Elise, Euforia by Feliks Audio and La Figaro 339, Ragnarok plus the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP. I've since sold off the FA amps and Primaluna.

Against this backdrop I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of Glenn's super OTL amp. It's a very nice way to close off the year. It's been a very good year I must say.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> This is the 3rd headphone amp that I've ordered in the last 2 years. The turn around time for this is incredibly fast, thanks to Glenn.  Of the 3 amps, this gives me the most excitement because of the many positive experiences of previous owners and the incredible tube combinations. I thought with all the frenzied gear buying this year, I'll be cool by now but this OTL amp kind of tops it all. The anticipation is great indeed and Glenn is shipping it out by Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You are going to feel like you are in heaven with that amp and the Eikon & Atticus


----------



## 2359glenn

Still listening with the 6336 will put in 6BL7s later tonight.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> You are going to feel like you are in heaven with that amp and the Eikon & Atticus



I told Zach that I'm getting a Glenn OTL and he is excited for me.  It's fun to talk to Zach and I still do from time to time. 

Anyway I still have unfinished business on earth. As much as I want to spin the Eikon and Atticus on Ulysses, I'm also curious about HD800 on it. Everyone who has the amp says it pairs very well with HD800. So let's see. I'l still undecided which tubes I'll roll first in it. I remember on Elise, the first tubes used were Lorenz C3Gs and Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Still listening with the 6336 will put in 6BL7s later tonight.



It will be hard for me to decide which power tubes to start off with. 6336, 6BL7 or quad 5998. Regardless I'll start off with C3Gs in the drivers' seat. Thanks for burning it in.


----------



## 2359glenn

The 6SN7 slot and C3g need separate burn ins they use different capacitors.
I will leave it on all night tonight with the C3g's in that will do some burn in.
Have been listening with the 1633.


----------



## UntilThen

@jerick70  take a look at this beautiful 300b amp. Read through the thread. A lot of very positive experiences. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-979#post-13180425


----------



## 2359glenn

Allot of food pictures too


----------



## jerick70

You guys are stacking the cards against me....  

That is a beautiful amp.  @UntilThen and @2359glenn this is a 300b amp?  Tubes look wrong to me....


----------



## ru4music

jerick70 said:


> You guys are stacking the cards against me....
> 
> That is a beautiful amp.  @UntilThen and @2359glenn this is a 300b amp?  Tubes look wrong to me....



Looks like C3g driver (with metal casing removed) and ELROG 300B output.


----------



## jerick70

ru4music said:


> Looks like C3g driver (with metal casing removed) and ELROG 300B output.


Oh very nice looking.  I've not seen the Elrogs before only heard about them.


----------



## UntilThen

Yup Jerick those are $1249 per matched pair of Elrog 300b at http://tubesusa.com/tubesusa.html.

.... and I thought my $500 pair of GEC 6as7g is expensive....


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Yup Jerick those are $1249 per matched pair of Elrog 300b at http://tubesusa.com/tubesusa.html.
> 
> .... and I thought my $500 pair of GEC 6as7g is expensive....



What's expensive when you buy a Glenn amp is not the amp or the tubes... it's the cost of the in-ground swimming pool you'll need for all the Noodles water toys you'll be getting.  You'll understand once you get your amp!


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> What's expensive when you buy a Glenn amp is not the amp or the tubes... it's the cost of the in-ground swimming pool you'll need for all the Noodles water toys you'll be getting.  You'll understand once you get your amp!




Ha


----------



## UntilThen

I was wondering why I have a pool when no one swims in it. Now I know why. The noodles are coming !!!

 o


----------



## 2359glenn

They will be there soon!!!!
Might as well have a pool party.
I should come there it is summer and we are supposed to get a cold spell next week.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I was wondering why I have a pool when no one swims in it. Now I know why. The noodles are coming !!!
> 
> o



You will be ready!



I am listening to the new King King Live album.

Alan Nimmo has to be the best guitarist to ever wear a kilt


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> They will be there soon!!!!
> Might as well have a pool party.
> I should come there it is summer and we are supposed to get a cold spell next week.



Sure come for a pool party. It's going to be a hot summer here. I spend too much time listening to music indoor. Then I remember I have to mow the lawn and clean the pool. What a bummer.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Sure come for a pool party. It's going to be a hot summer here. I spend too much time listening to music indoor. Then I remember I have to mow the lawn and clean the pool. What a bummer.



Always good to clean the pool:


----------



## 2359glenn

That is the problem with a pool cleaning it you end up cleaning it more then you go in it.
I hap a pool when I lived in New York but the kids liked it. Now just a hot tub.


----------



## UntilThen

Yup the kids love it but now they're grown up and I can now indulge in my music. No more taking them to soccer games and piano lessons and birthday parties. Freedom !!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Yea but old now 60
I am burning the amp with C3g's and 6BL7s going to leave it on all night again with the C3g's.
Get that part of the amp burned in a little.


----------



## UntilThen

Haha Glenn. 60 is not old. That's when you start to climb Mt Everest. 

The amp's going to be great with your thorough testing and burn in. I should be able to hit the ground running when it arrives.


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 2, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I told Zach that I'm getting a Glenn OTL and he is excited for me.  It's fun to talk to Zach and I still do from time to time.
> 
> Anyway I still have unfinished business on earth. As much as I want to spin the Eikon and Atticus on Ulysses, I'm also curious about HD800 on it. Everyone who has the amp says it pairs very well with HD800. So let's see. I'l still undecided which tubes I'll roll first in it. I remember on Elise, the first tubes used were Lorenz C3Gs and Tung Sol 5998.




I bought the OTL amp so I knew I was getting the most out of my HD800 and HD650, it won't disappoint.
Being the Atticus & Eikon are both 300 Ohm headphones, they will not disappoint either.
The OTL powers my planar headphone really well also....just not as well as the EL3N amp.

Talking to Zach, it seems I will have the Atticus before Christmas.

Glenn, 60 is not old.....but it is getting there


----------



## 2359glenn

I try to test all my amps like this.
Yours is getting a little extra because you live so far away not easy to send it back to 
me if there is a parts failure.
So I run it for a few days around the clock and it gets a little break in.


----------



## Rossliew

Outstanding work ethics there, Glenn!


----------



## jekjek

Thank you for all your hardwork Glenn


----------



## 2359glenn

Thanks guys
I just switched tubes in Matt's amp C3g driving Chatham 5998s this is the best sound yet.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Thanks guys
> I just switched tubes in Matt's amp C3g driving Chatham 5998s this is the best sound yet.



Great QC process. However, we can train Matt to open the case and fix a bad cap. LOL

I also believe the high-end 6as7g tubes beat 6bx7/6bl7s.


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 2, 2017)

attmci said:


> Great QC process. However, we can train Matt to open the case and fix a bad cap. LOL
> 
> I also believe the high-end 6as7g tubes beat 6bx7/6bl7s.



When we get back from the supermarket I am going to do a direct comparison between the 5998 and 6BL7 with HD-800s
Never had a cap go bad. Try to use the best Quality like BHC and Sprague.


----------



## whirlwind

attmci said:


> Great QC process. However, we can train Matt to open the case and fix a bad cap. LOL
> 
> I also believe the high-end 6as7g tubes beat 6bx7/6bl7s.


Matt, note to self...discharge those caps before touching!








2359glenn said:


> When we get back from the supermarket I am going to do a direct comparison between the 5998 and 6BL7 with HD-800s



Will be great to hear your impressions.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I bought the OTL amp so I knew I was getting the most out of my HD800 and HD650, it won't disappoint.
> Being the Atticus & Eikon are both 300 Ohm headphones, they will not disappoint either.
> The OTL powers my planar headphone really well also....just not as well as the EL3N amp.
> 
> ...



I was at my son's place last night and had a good listen to both HE560 and LCD-2f on the La Figaro 339. I must say it sounds good. Dynamics, clarity, soundstage, it's all there. It's only using cheap Mullard EF86 and Svetlana 6H13C tubes. Then my son told me he isn't using the LCD-2f because he finds the clamp too tight. So I brought it home in the hard case.

Now I'm using the LCD-2F on Ragnarok. Doing a swap around with Eikon, Atticus and HD800. I like the Audeze. It's a great tone with a heavier weight down low but my preference still remains as...

1. Eikon     - 300 ohms closed back
2. Atticus   - 300 ohms closed back
3. LCD-2f   - 70 ohms open
4. HD800   - 300 ohms open

The OTL will drive these really well. I have no doubt.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I try to test all my amps like this.
> Yours is getting a little extra because you live so far away not easy to send it back to
> me if there is a parts failure.
> So I run it for a few days around the clock and it gets a little break in.



Thank you thank you Glenn. All the folks here loves you already. I'm so happy mine is getting that extra. I'm really touched !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Outstanding work ethics there, Glenn!



Ross it's time you order the 300b. You'll get a little extra too.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Great QC process. However, we can train Matt to open the case and fix a bad cap. LOL
> 
> I also believe the high-end 6as7g tubes beat 6bx7/6bl7s.



I have a new set of Stanley screw drivers. I'm all ready to learn. 

First lesson would be to change the USB 5 board for Yggdrasil early next year. There's a lot of screws in that box !!!

Really? You believe the high-end 6as7g tubes beat 6bx7 / 6bl7 ? Right after I've invested in twenty-four 6B*7 tubes??? Are you trying to lower the worth of my investment?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> When we get back from the supermarket I am going to do a direct comparison between the 5998 and 6BL7 with HD-800s
> Never had a cap go bad. Try to use the best Quality like BHC and Sprague.



Alright Glenn, I'm keen to hear your opinion on 5998 vs 6BL7 using HD800. I love all my tubes and those 5998s especially. Cost quite a bomb there and I bought them new - NOS. Might be over indulgence for me to use all four 5998 at one go in the OTL. A pair sounds great. Heck a single in Bottlehead Crack sounds great. Imagine 4.... in the OTL and with the boost switch on.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> *Really? You believe the high-end 6as7g tubes beat 6bx7 / 6bl7 ? Right after I've invested in twenty-four 6B*7 tubes??? Are you trying to lower the worth of my investment?*



I have 5998's as well as GEC 6AS7. And to my ears, the 6BL7 / 6BX7 sound better. But of course, my ears and my gear.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> I have 5998's as well as GEC 6AS7. And to my ears, the 6BL7 / 6BX7 sound better. But of course, my ears and my gear.



Now we get a bit more balance view.  We need a poll here. 

This is going to be one lovely summer of tube rolling for me. The Bendix 6080wb, Cetron 7236, Mullard 6080, RCA 6AS7G, GEC 6080, GEC 6AS7A, Svetlana 6H13C, RCA 6080, 5998, 6BL7s, 6336 are all ready to roll. 

Hehe, I've enough 6SN7s to roll in the Super 7. Let's see how that sounds.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Now we get a bit more balance view.  We need a poll here.
> 
> This is going to be one lovely summer of tube rolling for me. The Bendix 6080wb, Cetron 7236, Mullard 6080, RCA 6AS7G, GEC 6080, GEC 6AS7A, Svetlana 6H13C, RCA 6080, 5998, 6BL7s, 6336 are all ready to roll.
> 
> Hehe, I've enough 6SN7s to roll in the Super 7. Let's see how that sounds.



Well, in my Woo WA2 I prefer the TS 5998 to the 6BL7.  Will be watching the international news for a report of a mysterious power drain down-under once Ulysses arrives.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Well, in my Woo WA2 I prefer the TS 5998 to the 6BL7.  Will be watching the international news for a report of a mysterious power drain down-under once Ulysses arrives.



That is if you can still watch the news on TV. The lights will dimmed and the TV will flicker the moment I switch on the super OTL amp. 

So the score stands at 2 - 1 in favour of 5998 at the moment. Keep the impressions coming. I think these guys have a share in 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Never had a cap go bad. Try to use the best Quality like BHC and Sprague.



I'm intrigued by these caps brands. I don't know caps well so it's no surprise I've not heard of them but a quick google search shows that they are well regarded caps brand indeed.

Now tell me more about the chokes and larger filter on the top of the amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

I comparing the 5998 and 6BL7 i was close. With the HD-800s 300 ohm phones the 6BL7 seemed a little better
but a close call. With the price difference the 6BL7 wins I just bought 6BL7s for $4 so $24 for 6 of them is a bargain
compared to over priced 5998s.
I didn't try with low impedance phones no time have to put the bottom on Matt's amp to box it up tomorrow.
The only reason to use 5998s would be to put 4 of them in to drive certain low impedance phones.
But I would try with one pair first not to burn 4 expensive tubes if not needed.
And the better option would to use two 6336 with low impedance phones but the 5998 sound better I think.
After listening to different tubes all day who knows what sounds better at this point.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> After listening to different tubes all day who knows what sounds better at this point.



Hahahaha. ... I did that once and at the end of the day, it's hard to differentiate. Getting to know the sound of the tubes takes time and for me, it took almost 2 years. Also you think you know the sound of a tube but on a different amp, it can and will sound different. That is why I will go all over again with my tubes on Ulysses.

Anyway, thanks for your impressions. Those 6BL7s looks like super value tubes and running sextet will surely be a robust and powerful sound.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I'm intrigued by these caps brands. I don't know caps well so it's no surprise I've not heard of them but a quick google search shows that they are well regarded caps brand indeed.
> 
> Now tell me more about the chokes and larger filter on the top of the amp.



The 2 large caps on top of the chassis are BHC made in Great Brittan and all the rest of the electrolytic caps are Sprague Atom.
An old brand but they last and sound good.  All the caps I use are made in USA or Europe were they were making them for a long long time.
I get told that different brands from Japan are better I don't be leave it. And allot of them are made in China now.


----------



## Hansotek

My OTL says 6080 and 6AS7 over those slots- Which equivalents can I roll in there? I know some people have switch options and stuff (I don’t), so I just want to be sure so I don’t mess up the baby!


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> My OTL says 6080 and 6AS7 over those slots- Which equivalents can I roll in there? I know some people have switch options and stuff (I don’t), so I just want to be sure so I don’t mess up the baby!



You bought this beautiful looking Glenn OTL amp. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sold-glenn-otl-headphone-amplifier-lots-of-tubes.851631/

I really think that is a beautiful looking amp. Just looking at that I'm certain you can roll any 6as7 or 6080 variants plus 5998. Should at least be about to roll in a pair of 6BL7 or even a quad with adapters.

Glenn can advise if you can use 6336 in that amp. @gibosi and @whirlwind have similar amps too.


----------



## mordy

ru4music said:


> Looks like C3g driver (with metal casing removed) and ELROG 300B output.


I remember from the past that somebody (Badas?) was very unhappy with the Elrog tubes - took forever to burn in and some reliability problems despite the price. But this may have been early production and may have changed.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Sure come for a pool party. It's going to be a hot summer here. I spend too much time listening to music indoor. Then I remember I have to mow the lawn and clean the pool. What a bummer.


Hi UT,

What happened to painting the deck lol?


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> I comparing the 5998 and 6BL7 i was close. With the HD-800s 300 ohm phones the 6BL7 seemed a little better
> but a close call. With the price difference the 6BL7 wins I just bought 6BL7s for $4 so $24 for 6 of them is a bargain
> compared to over priced 5998s.
> I didn't try with low impedance phones no time have to put the bottom on Matt's amp to box it up tomorrow.
> ...


Hi 2359glenn,

Way back I remember that you said that the 6 pack 6BL7/6BX7 sounded better than any 6AS7 type tube in your amp. Have the new models changed that?


----------



## TonyNewman

mordy said:


> I remember from the past that somebody (Badas?) was very unhappy with the Elrog tubes - took forever to burn in and some reliability problems despite the price. But this may have been early production and may have changed.



I have the new production Elrogs. They have been robust so far, but I no longer use them all that much. The sound signature if very detailed with great extension, BUT (and it is a big "but") the tonality is somewhat bright. That might work well in a more euphonic / warmish amp like the WA5, but doesn't work too well with the Glenn amp. The Glenn is a transparent amp and it needs, I think, a 300B with some warmth and richness to deliver a tube experience (otherwise why bother? - plug into a GS-X Mk2 or whatever other SS amp you have).

For intrumental / classical they are still excellent - perhaps the best out there - but for anything vocal-centric I much prefer the Taks or EML mesh.

As always, this is taste dependent and YMMV.


----------



## gibosi

Hansotek said:


> My OTL says 6080 and 6AS7 over those slots- Which equivalents can I roll in there? I know some people have switch options and stuff (I don’t), so I just want to be sure so I don’t mess up the baby!



It appears that you have the same transformer as I do. If so, in addition to 6080, 6AS7 and 5998, you can also roll a pair 6336. And with adapters, you can roll four 6AS7, 6080 and 5998. And also, with adapters, you can roll four or six 6BL7 / 6BX7.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> You bought this beautiful looking Glenn OTL amp. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sold-glenn-otl-headphone-amplifier-lots-of-tubes.851631/
> 
> I really think that is a beautiful looking amp. Just looking at that I'm certain you can roll any 6as7 or 6080 variants plus 5998. Should at least be about to roll in a pair of 6BL7 or even a quad with adapters.
> 
> Glenn can advise if you can use 6336 in that amp. @gibosi and @whirlwind have similar amps too.



Many thanks! I thought you needed a special switch to bias 5998 and 6336? Perhaps I misunderstood about the 5998.

I saw the comments about 6BL7 and 6BX7s above, so I was definitely curious about those. I love the GEC 6080s - really nice staging and transparency, just wondering what else is out there after being blown away by a $10 RCA 5U4GB recently. Got me curious about other budget gems!


----------



## Hansotek

gibosi said:


> It appears that you have the same transformer as I do. If so, in addition to 6080, 6AS7 and 5998, you can also roll a pair 6336. And with adapters, you can roll four 6AS7, 6080 and 5998. And also, with adapters, you can roll four or six 6BL7 / 6BX7.



Whaaaaat? Holy smokes! That’s bananas!


----------



## 2359glenn

You can get the 6BL7 to 6AS7 adapter and run four 6BL7s cheep tubes and this same place has two C3g to 6SN7 adapter
Great sounding driver tubes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-G...tal-version-/191850787735?hash=item2cab32b397


----------



## mordy

Hansotek said:


> Many thanks! I thought you needed a special switch to bias 5998 and 6336? Perhaps I misunderstood about the 5998.
> 
> I saw the comments about 6BL7 and 6BX7s above, so I was definitely curious about those. I love the GEC 6080s - really nice staging and transparency, just wondering what else is out there after being blown away by a $10 RCA 5U4GB recently. Got me curious about other budget gems!


Hi Hansotek,

I have an Euforia amp that uses four tubes. My current favorite is the GEC 6080 as power tubes and a pair of ribbed anode 1953 Foton 6N8S (6SN7 equivalent) as drivers. 
The Foton tubes sound great in my amp and cost less than $20 shipped.


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 2, 2017)

Oh and yes you can use two 6336 with no adapters. You can use the same 6BL7 adapter to run four 6AS7s or four 5998s four 6080s.
The 5998 switch just bias the 5998 properly making it sound better. But they will work fine without
the switch.


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> You can get the 6BL7 to 6AS7 adapter and run four 6BL7s cheep tubes and this same place has two C3g to 6SN7 adapter
> Great sounding driver tubes.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-G...tal-version-/191850787735?hash=item2cab32b397





2359glenn said:


> Oh and yes you can use two 6336 with no adapters. You can use the same 6BL7 adapter to run four 6AS7s or four 5998s four 6080s.



You are the man! I am all over that!!!


----------



## gibosi

Hansotek said:


> Whaaaaat? Holy smokes! That’s bananas!


For example, a Cossor 53KU rectifier, four GE 6BX7 and one GEC B65.


----------



## 2359glenn

This amp can use a crazy amount of tubes.

Ken you haven't told him about the 4 volt rectifiers he can use with this amp.


----------



## gibosi

And if you want to go a little crazy,

A 4-volt Telefunken WE56 rectifier, four Tung-Sol 6BX7 and a pair of RCA 76 triodes.


----------



## attmci (Dec 2, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> I comparing the 5998 and 6BL7 i was close. With the HD-800s 300 ohm phones the 6BL7 seemed a little better
> but a close call. With the price difference the 6BL7 wins I just bought 6BL7s for $4 so $24 for 6 of them is a bargain
> compared to over priced 5998s.
> I didn't try with low impedance phones no time have to put the bottom on Matt's amp to box it up tomorrow.
> ...



Tube rolling is fun.  No competition here (i.e. 5998 vs 6bl7/6bx7).

The tubes stay in the amp(s)  most of the time are winners!


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> This amp can use a crazy amount of tubes.
> 
> Ken you haven't told him about the 4 volt rectifiers he can use with this amp.



This is insane. I feel like one of those people on Antiques Roadshow who just found out the vase in their dining room is actually a one-of-a-kind piece that once belonged to the king of England, hahaha! This was WAY more than I expected! 

Now I’m not even sure what to roll next. I do have all of those adaptors in my eBay cart though. Will probably start with the dual tube adaptors for the 6080 slots, because I’m intrigued by the possibilities.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> What happened to painting the deck lol?



That can wait. I am painting amps now.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> This is insane. I feel like one of those people on Antiques Roadshow who just found out the vase in their dining room is actually a one-of-a-kind piece that once belonged to the king of England, hahaha! This was WAY more than I expected!
> 
> Now I’m not even sure what to roll next. I do have all of those adaptors in my eBay cart though. Will probably start with the dual tube adaptors for the 6080 slots, because I’m intrigued by the possibilities.



Hans I worry for you. Your life will be changed now.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Hans I worry for you. Your life will be changed now.



Oh, it’s WAAAAY to late for me man.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I have a new set of Stanley screw drivers. I'm all ready to learn.
> 
> First lesson would be to change the USB 5 board for Yggdrasil early next year. There's a lot of screws in that box !!!
> 
> Really? You believe the high-end 6as7g tubes beat 6bx7 / 6bl7 ? Right after I've invested in twenty-four 6B*7 tubes??? Are you trying to lower the worth of my investment?


The only tool missing is a powerful enough hammer. LOL

Plus some "supreme" caps.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> Oh, it’s WAAAAY to late for me man.



There is a cool looking driver that you can use too. It's the FDD20. A nice blue looking tube. Need to get the FDD20 to 12SN7 adapter.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi 2359glenn,
> 
> Way back I remember that you said that the 6 pack 6BL7/6BX7 sounded better than any 6AS7 type tube in your amp. Have the new models changed that?



Mordy, nothing has changed. It's attmci plan not to highlight the 6BL7 too much otherwise the price will skyrocket.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh wait... your amp does not have the 6, 12 and 25v switch for the different drivers. Need Glenn to chime in here.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> There is a cool looking driver that you can use too. It's the FDD20. A nice blue looking tube. Need to get the FDD20 to 12SN7 adapter.



The FDD20 requires the 6/12/25 heater switch. Or an external 12 volt heater power supply. But if one is going to go down that road, then 2.5 volt Arcturus 127 triodes are even cooler:


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> But if one is going to go down that road, then 2.5 volt Arcturus 127 triodes are even cooler:



That's so cool. 2.5v so can I set the switch to 6.3 volt for it? Also there are no known adapters for it.


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 3, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> I comparing the 5998 and 6BL7 i was close. With the HD-800s 300 ohm phones the 6BL7 seemed a little better
> but a close call. With the price difference the 6BL7 wins I just bought 6BL7s for $4 so $24 for 6 of them is a bargain
> compared to over priced 5998s.
> I didn't try with low impedance phones no time have to put the bottom on Matt's amp to box it up tomorrow.
> ...



I thought the 5998 sounded better than 6336 tubes also, I use 5998 and C3g to power my planars, I like the tone better.
I use only two because of exactly what you said, why burn four at a time when it is overkill.

The 6BL7 and 6BX7 are no doubt the king for the bang for your buck...very reasonably priced for what you get.

 Ken & Arnold may have tried all of these combos


----------



## whirlwind

Hansotek said:


> Many thanks! I thought you needed a special switch to bias 5998 and 6336? Perhaps I misunderstood about the 5998.
> 
> I saw the comments about 6BL7 and 6BX7s above, so I was definitely curious about those. I love the GEC 6080s - really nice staging and transparency, just wondering what else is out there after being blown away by a $10 RCA 5U4GB recently. Got me curious about other budget gems!



I love the sound of those GEC 6080 tubes also...very nice.

Not sure if your amp has the 6/12/25 volt switch for driver tubes...if it does you can buy 25 volt SN7 tubes.
A 1633 RCA smoke glass, which is a 25SN7 tube, sound great and can be had for about $4 each.

That is a beautiful amp, I remember when you snagged this on the B/S/T forum

gibosi has tried so many tubes in his amp, it is actually pretty hard to imagine, lol.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> That's so cool. 2.5v so can I set the switch to 6.3 volt for it? Also there are no known adapters for it.



No you will need a 2.5 volt power supply.
Maybe I should add 2.5 on the switch and 5 pin sockets? That would make the chassis have to be bigger.


----------



## 2359glenn

And with a adapter you can use two EL3N tubes in the 6SN7 socket.
And don't forget the 7N7 with a adapter.


----------



## 2359glenn

OH and there is a adapter avilable to use the 76 tube it is a 6.3 volt tube.
Not sure if you can get Arcturus blue ones though.


----------



## Rossliew

This is getting outta hand LOL


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> And with a adapter you can use two EL3N tubes in the 6SN7 socket.
> And don't forget the 7N7 with a adapter.



Oh, that sounds interesting. My interest in the EL3N tubes is piqued after all the positive stuff I’ve read on your EL3N amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Here is the adapter needed

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-D...639044?hash=item2ca65c7884:g:-W4AAOSw5IJWggQB


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> No you will need a 2.5 volt power supply.
> Maybe I should add 2.5 on the switch and 5 pin sockets? That would make the chassis have to be bigger.



It's ok Glenn. No need to add 2.5 on the switch and 5 pin sockets. As it is, the number of tubes I can use on the OTL amp is staggering. As Ross said, it is getting out of hand lol.


----------



## mordy

As my headphone inventory is increasing (I blame all of you for this) I wanted to get some inexpensive hangers for them. 
One of my sons taught me that a good source for information is YouTube. Among the many entries for suggestions on inexpensive headphone hangers I came across a guy who recommended this:






A wooden back scratcher (around $1-2) - you cut it to size and attach it to your desk or whatever.
This got me thinking:



Took two wooden rulers that I had on hand and stuck them under my CD player on my equipment rack - a new home for my HD650 and T1!

But what do I do with the cords hanging down and getting in the way or too close to superheated 6080 tubes?

Any suggestions for headphone hangers and cord storage are appreciated. But remember, nothing over $79, I mean $0.79 lol........


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> The only tool missing is a powerful enough hammer. LOL
> 
> Plus some "supreme" caps.



I don't need a hammer. I do this to recalcitrant tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy, you've pick up 2 very nice headphones. In my opinion, those headphones are still great. I should tidy up my bookshelf and display my headphone stands there.


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> Here is the adapter needed
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-D...639044?hash=item2ca65c7884:g:-W4AAOSw5IJWggQB



Nice! Thank you, Glenn! I also just noticed this 6922/EC88 to 6SN7 adaptor - would that work? I have a box with probably a dozen 6922 equivalent tubes here. Would be sweet if I could roll those in the OTL too. 

https://m.ebay.com/itm/1Piece-ECC88...215538?hash=item2cba0168b2:g:FjUAAOSwAYtWQBjt


----------



## UntilThen

Hans, 6922 / 6N23P will work with those adapters. However do get a better adapter.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-Gol...238624?hash=item2c992a2b20:g:nsIAAOSwl1xZsltj


----------



## 2359glenn

The 6922 will work it will have a little more gain a 6SN7 gain=20 6922 gain = 33
So it will work fine.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Hans, 6922 / 6N23P will work with those adapters. However do get a better adapter.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-Gol...238624?hash=item2c992a2b20:g:nsIAAOSwl1xZsltj





2359glenn said:


> The 6922 will work it will have a little more gain a 6SN7 gain=20 6922 gain = 33
> So it will work fine.



I have a borderline hilarious number of adaptors in my eBay cart right now, lol! Definitely going to grab this adaptor today, just cause I have a pile of those 6922s and it’s so cheap it’s a no-brainer. Will probably grab the others once I find the actual tubes that I’ll run in them. A little torn on whether I should invest in some EL3Ns first (because I’m curious about the tube) or doubling up the output tubes first. So many possibilities!


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 3, 2017)

I don't know what the impedance of your phones are if they are high get the 6BL7 or 6BX7 with the dual adapter.


----------



## 2359glenn

And you can get EL3N's for $20 each from ESRC tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> I have a borderline hilarious number of adaptors in my eBay cart right now, lol! Definitely going to grab this adaptor today, just cause I have a pile of those 6922s and it’s so cheap it’s a no-brainer. Will probably grab the others once I find the actual tubes that I’ll run in them. A little torn on whether I should invest in some EL3Ns first (because I’m curious about the tube) or doubling up the output tubes first. So many possibilities!



I too went over board with adapters when I had Elise and Euforia. That's when I thought to myself. Why not get an amp custom build to use those tubes without adapters. More importantly, it will be tuned for those tubes. That's where I am at now and Ulysses sets sail tomorrow for Sydney. You hear that @ru4music ? 

I have too many good drivers waiting to try in Ulysses but I might also roll these in at some point. Why not !

L to R - 7N7, 6CG7 and 6N23p


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> I don't know what the impedance of your phones are if they are high get the 6BL7 or 6BX7 with the dual adapter.



Yeah, most of the stuff I use with your amp is 300 ohms - ZMF Atticus & Auteur and Sennheiser HD800 & HD600 - all 300 ohms.

Does the dual adapter just give high impedance phones more gain? Damping factor changes? Or just good synergy with those tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I thought the 5998 sounded better than 6336 tubes also, I use 5998 and C3g to power my planars, I like the tone better.
> I use only two because of exactly what you said, why burn four at a time when it is overkill.
> 
> The 6BL7 and 6BX7 are no doubt the king for the bang for your buck...very reasonably priced for what you get.
> ...



Joe, I did like C3g with 5998 or 6BL7 on Elise. However I'm always curious how those combinations will sound on a Glenn OTL amp that is specifically tuned for it, especially with 6 x 6BL7 !!!. Can you steer the ship that carries Ulysses to get here quickly?


----------



## 2359glenn

Hansotek said:


> Yeah, most of the stuff I use with your amp is 300 ohms - ZMF Atticus & Auteur and Sennheiser HD800 & HD600 - all 300 ohms.
> 
> Does the dual adapter just give high impedance phones more gain? Damping factor changes? Or just good synergy with those tubes?



Just good synergy with the 6BL7 if buying adapters the 6BL7 is the best bang for the buck.


----------



## UntilThen

Two 6BL7 is 2 violinist playing. Four 6BL7 is a solid rock band. Six 6BL7 is... i don't know... maybe a full scale orchestra ... I will let you know when I hear it.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> ...That's where I am at now and Ulysses sets sail tomorrow for Sydney. You hear that @ru4music ?



As they sometimes say in the more rural parts of America, "*I hear you cluck'n big chicken!*"


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> Just good synergy with the 6BL7 if buying adapters the 6BL7 is the best bang for the buck.



Found some good looking Sylvania 6BL7’s and grabbed the adaptors. Excited to try it out!


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Joe, I did like C3g with 5998 or 6BL7 on Elise. However I'm always curious how those combinations will sound on a Glenn OTL amp that is specifically tuned for it, especially with 6 x 6BL7 !!!. Can you steer the ship that carries Ulysses to get here quickly?



Ha, you don't want me steering UT.....I am guessing it will get to you quicker without me steering anything.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hansotek said:


> Found some good looking Sylvania 6BL7’s and grabbed the adaptors. Excited to try it out!



You won't be disappointed.


----------



## lukeap69

@UntilThen Matt

I prefer the 6BL7/67XB with my HD800 SD (undecided with GEC 6AS7 and TS 7236 though) than my 6AS7 tubes including Chathams. 

On the other head, I mean hand, I prefer the 6AS7 on my HD650.

It will be interesting to know your impressions of the Ulysses!


----------



## UntilThen

Arnold thanks for chiming in. In my experiences with tube amps, I appreciate tubes for their different flavours. When the amp is well executed, most tubes will sound good. They just exhibit different characteristics. That makes the OTL amp desirable because one can use so many tubes. 

The only tube that I thought sounded brutal is the 6N13P that came as stock power tube in Darkvoice 336se or La Figaro 339.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Ha, you don't want me steering UT.....I am guessing it will get to you quicker without me steering anything.



Well we will have to learn to steer because we're going on a Kon Tiki voyage at some point in time. It's what we need to do as a bucket list item.

Now for the good news. Glenn just told me he has send Ulysses off by express to reach me by ~  12th Dec. I feel like this cartoon now.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Well we will have to learn to steer because we're going on a Kon Tiki voyage at some point in time. It's what we need to do as a bucket list item.
> 
> Now for the good news. Glenn just told me he has send Ulysses off by express to reach me by ~  12th Dec. I feel like this cartoon now.



Yes UT, I heard that also!


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Arnold thanks for chiming in. In my experiences with tube amps, I appreciate tubes for their different flavours. When the amp is well executed, most tubes will sound good. They just exhibit different characteristics. That makes the OTL amp desirable because one can use so many tubes.
> 
> The only tube that I thought sounded brutal is the 6N13P that came as stock power tube in Darkvoice 336se or La Figaro 339.


Matt

Even the unnamed Russian (I think) 6AS7 tubes provided by Glenn for free sound good already on my Darna. I could be happy with whatever tubes I have (rolled) on my Darna. The amp is that good. Rolling different tubes provide somehow different flavours and degree of refinements.

The 6AS7 tubes, IME, have wider soundstage and more energetic highs. The 6BL7/6BX7 have more intimate stage bu hit harder which is very good for the HD800SD. 

I find the mids of the HD650 shine more with the 6AS7 tubes especially with my Bendix 6080, TS 7236 and of course the insanely outstanding GEC 6AS7 (mine are Haltron rebranded) brown base.

After a year and a half of rolling different tubes, my opinion of how these different tubes sound did not change.

Of course this is all IMO/E and YMMV.


----------



## mordy

lukeap69 said:


> Matt
> 
> Even the unnamed Russian (I think) 6AS7 tubes provided by Glenn for free sound good already on my Darna. I could be happy with whatever tubes I have (rolled) on my Darna. The amp is that good. Rolling different tubes provide somehow different flavours and degree of refinements.
> 
> ...


Hi l69,

IMHO the tubes seem to matter less in a really good amp, perhaps because everything sounds good. Not that there aren't differences, but it seems to me that a very good amp minimizes the differences.


----------



## UntilThen

Very good observations guys. That can only come from someone who have spend time with those tubes on their amps. Arnold could those Russian 6AS7 be the Svetlana 6H13C? Or are they actually 6AS7? For economical power tubes, those Svetlanas are not too shabby. I might get a quad, just to burn in the OTL amp.

These 4 are my favourite. Gec 6as7g, Bendix 6080wb, Tung Sol 5998, Gec 6080. The next tier for me would be the Chatham 6as7g, Tung Sol 7236 and Mullard 6080, Rca 6as7g.

It's almost 2 months since I sold off Euforia and gave La Figaro 339 to my son. Kind of miss listening to a tube amp but Ragnarok is sounding great to my ears. I chose Ragnarok over Violectric V281 after 3 auditions. It's all personal preference. I know many would prefer the V281 but for me, I gave the nod to Rag.


----------



## lukeap69

Matt

I can't remember if my el cheapo 6AS7 tubes have brand name. I am too lazy to look for them now. 

You have so many great tubes to try. This will be a hell of a ride!


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> *This will be a hell of a ride!*



You bet !!! I'm buckle up, helmet on, boots strapped, testosterone charged and ready to go.....


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> Matt
> 
> I can't remember if my el cheapo 6AS7 tubes have brand name. I am too lazy to look for them now.
> 
> You have so many great tubes to try. This will be a hell of a ride!



I think they were Svetlana 6H13 I got them for $2.50 each it was more for shipping.
Can't find them that cheep anymore just bought some and some Svetlana 5U3 rectifiers a Russian 5U4G.
Got them pretty cheep.


----------



## lukeap69

2.50 each, these are cheaper than 6BL7! 

I think Matt will buy two boxes of these for burning in...


----------



## UntilThen

If you can find me $2.50 ones I'll buy 2 dozens to light up my christmas tree.

7 days to OTL amp arrival.


----------



## lukeap69

Only Glenn has access to this secret tube market.


----------



## UntilThen

I think @Lord Raven  knows too. He once bought a stack of Chatham 6as7g for a few pennies. I need his services now.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> If you can find me $2.50 ones I'll buy 2 dozens to light up my christmas tree.
> 
> 7 days to OTL amp arrival.



They get to hot to put on a Christmas tree. But they would look cool.
I could make spinning lights with Deckatron tubes they don't get hot old computer counter tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Flashing lights in timing with the music would be coool. You need to make one for @ru4music . He owes me a more comprehensive review of Scarlett.


----------



## mordy

lukeap69 said:


> 2.50 each, these are cheaper than 6BL7!
> 
> I think Matt will buy two boxes of these for burning in...


That was then... It used to be that you could buy these Svetlana tubes in lots of 50 or 100, but not any more. As far as I know, there is no current manufacturer of 6AS7 type tubes today but I may be wrong....China?


----------



## ru4music (Dec 5, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Flashing lights in timing with the music would be coool. You need to make one for @ru4music . He owes me a more comprehensive review of Scarlett.



I still owe myself a comprehensive review! lol Listened again last night and have about 50+ hours on Scarlett so far, the mid vocal/ instrument timbre, detail, PRAT and separation are what stand out in my mind at the moment.  The bass is a little on the lighter side (to be expected) but balanced overall in the presentation and this is followed up with decent high end extension and detail.  It seems that almost everything (if not all) I throw at it music wise seems to sound good.  More to come...


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> *They get to hot to put on a Christmas tree.* But they would look cool.
> I could make spinning lights with Deckatron tubes they don't get hot old computer counter tubes.



That's too bad, we could've strung 19 of them in series for 120VAC (19 x 6.3 Vf = 119.7 V) and just like the old Christmas tree lights when one burned out none of them would work.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> I still owe myself a comprehensive review! lol Listened again last night and have about 50+ hours on Scarlett so far, the mid vocal/ instrument timbre, detail, PRAT and separation are what stand out in my mind at the moment. The bass is a little on the lighter side (to be expected) but balanced overall in the presentation and this is followed up with decent high end extension and detail. It seems that almost everything (if not all) I throw at it music wise seems to sound good. More to come...



Thanks for the initial impressions. I shouldn't rush you. EL3N takes time to develop it's full potential. It needs a lot of hours to get the tubes to optimum. Needless to say that applies to Scarlett too. Enjoy discovering how the tone evolve.


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> I still owe myself a comprehensive review! lol Listened again last night and have about 50+ hours on Scarlett so far, the mid vocal/ instrument timbre, detail, PRAT and separation are what stand out in my mind at the moment.  The bass is a little on the lighter side (to be expected) but balanced overall in the presentation and this is followed up with decent high end extension and detail.  It seems that almost everything (if not all) I throw at it music wise seems to sound good.  More to come...



When using the ZMF Ori and the GEL3N the sub bass is fantastic and very addicting.

I have the Atticus ordered and cant wait to hear the wonderful mid bass it is suppose to have.


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 6, 2017)

A 6802 deckatron tube hooked as a spinner. I used to sell these things on E-Bay
These were used as divide by 10 counters in computers.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> A 6802 deckatron tube hooked as a spinner. I used to sell these things on E-Bay
> These were used as divide by 10 counters in computers.



This is cool Glenn. Aren't you selling one right now?


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> When using the ZMF Ori and the GEL3N the sub bass is fantastic and very addicting.
> 
> I have the Atticus ordered and cant wait to hear the wonderful mid bass it is suppose to have.



Joe - comparison of Atiicus on OTL and EL3N will be very interesting! I mean, I have been toying the idea of getting an Atticus for myself but have been using speakers lately so still holding that plan...


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 6, 2017)

lukeap69 said:


> This is cool Glenn. Aren't you selling one right now?



No I would have to build it have to buy a 6802 tube the Russian tubes light purple.
Gave one of these to Stavros don't know if he still has the silly thing.  Thought it would be interesting for a tube collector.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> No I would have to build it have to buy a 6802 tube the Russian tubes light purple.
> Gave one of these to Stavros don't know if he still has the silly thing.  Thought it would be interesting for a tube collector.



Of course I have it I don't part with gifts from friends.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Of course I have it I don't part with gifts from friends.



What a champ. I will send you a kangaroo. Make sure you keep it as a pet ok? Btw have you seen a really grown up kangaroo? I was driving once just after midnight and approaching town in Canberra and there in the distance I saw a giant kangaroo as big as a T-Rex dinosaur hopping across the highway. Almost freak me out.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> What a champ. I will send you a kangaroo. Make sure you keep it as a pet ok? Btw have you seen a really grown up kangaroo? I was driving once just after midnight and approaching town in Canberra and there in the distance I saw a giant kangaroo as big as a T-Rex dinosaur hopping across the highway. Almost freak me out.


First I thought that kangaroos were as common as squirrels are in the US, but then I was told that you can only find kangaroos in the zoo in most places in AU.....


----------



## UntilThen

And I will tell you another story. It's true btw. I once drove across the rainbow. A big giant rainbow that splash on the highway. As I was approaching it driving at 100 kmph, I saw the rainbow and I had this OMG moment that I was going to be driving through it. Drove through it I did and my black car got splashed with rainbow colours, mostly orange. It was a scary moment. More scary than seeing the giant kangaroo.


----------



## UntilThen

6 days till Ulysses arrives and I'm talking about kangaroos and rainbow. Mordy, kangaroos are everywhere in the semi rural areas. Just pray you don't drive into an adult one at 100 kmph. You see dead carcass all the time by the side of the road. Sometimes right in the middle of the road.

Tomorrow I'll talk about unicorns.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> A 6802 deckatron tube hooked as a spinner. I used to sell these things on E-Bay
> These were used as divide by 10 counters in computers.



Now this is starting to make sense!  @2359glenn says, "People of the head-fi forum, look deeply into the spinning light.  You are getting sleepy, very very sleepy.  On the count of three you will have the unquenchable desire to order Glenn amps, one, two ..."    Good thing I can't count to three otherwise I would have been hypnotized, wait just a minute...


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> When using the ZMF Ori and the GEL3N the sub bass is fantastic and very addicting.
> 
> I have the Atticus ordered and cant wait to hear the wonderful mid bass it is suppose to have.



Good to know!  Until the amp gets burned-in I'm using just the HD-800 to establish a baseline for comparison.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> What a champ. I will send you a kangaroo. Make sure you keep it as a pet ok? Btw have you seen a really grown up kangaroo? I was driving once just after midnight and approaching town in Canberra and there in the distance I saw a giant kangaroo as big as a T-Rex dinosaur hopping across the highway. Almost freak me out.



I have seen them Matt very scary.

What about a Koala bear?

Or better still what about a Tasmanian Devil???


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn I've ordered this adapter for FDD20. Can I use it as it is?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/201418253970


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn I've ordered this adapter for FDD20. Can I use it as it is?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/201418253970



It should work fine just put the amp switch on 12 volt.
They should have pins 3 & 6 tied together if they don't it will work but might not sound as good.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> A 6802 deckatron tube hooked as a spinner. I used to sell these things on E-Bay
> These were used as divide by 10 counters in computers.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ru4music

@2359glenn Glenn, how would you compare the HD-800 to your Audio Technica (32 ohm (IIRC)) phones on the GEL3N?  I have a pair of inexpensive Senn 490 (32 ohm) HPs that seem to be more sensitive but nowhere near the same overall SQ.


----------



## 2359glenn

I never really liked the audio technica phones but they sounded great on the EL3N.
Maybe not as good as the 800s but right up there. And they are closed back so I can use them while sitting next to the
lady while she is watching TV.
Try those 32 ohm phones you might be surprised. Remember the output of the amp is 32 ohms a perfect match.


----------



## 2359glenn

Joe you want one.    I think I might have a 6802 around some ware.

At one point I wanted to make a string of them to put in the Christmas tree but it would cost to much to make.
A Christmas tree decorated with tubes how good is that.  And Lucy knows I am nuts so it wouldn't matter


----------



## UntilThen

I want a spinning light on the roof of my car. Everyone will make way for me at peak hours.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Joe you want one.    I think I might have a 6802 around some ware.
> 
> At one point I wanted to make a string of them to put in the Christmas tree but it would cost to much to make.
> A Christmas tree decorated with tubes how good is that.  And Lucy knows I am nuts so it wouldn't matter



No I do not want one, but it is really cool.

A Christmas tree decorated with tubes would be pretty neat.  That would be one wild Christmas tree!


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Glenn I've ordered this adapter for FDD20. Can I use it as it is?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/201418253970



This is the adapter that I use. Set the 6/12/25 volt switch to 12, and with the adapter, it is plug and play.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> This is the adapter that I use. Set the 6/12/25 volt switch to 12, and with the adapter, it is plug and play.



Thanks to you and Glenn for confirming. FDD20 and 5998 is a great sounding combination. Looking forward to revisit it again.


----------



## mordy

rosgr63 said:


> I have seen them Matt very scary.
> 
> What about a Koala bear?
> 
> Or better still what about a Tasmanian Devil???


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Remember the output of the GEL3N amp is 32 ohms.



Glenn what is the output impedance of the OTL amp. Also what is the total permissible current draw of all tubes used in the amp at any one time? Is it 13 amperes?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn what is the output impedance of the OTL amp. Also what is the total permissible current draw of all tubes used in the amp at any one time? Is it 13 amperes?



Yes it is 13 amps total for all tubes.
The Impedance is about 50 ohms but it changes with what tubes are used and how many tubes are used
And whether the 5998 switch is on or not. It is lower when on.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks for the info Glenn. 13 amps will give me a lot of leeway.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Thanks for the info Glenn. 13 amps will give me a lot of leeway.



Artist rendition of UT rolling tubes:






@2359glenn - Glenn, what is the current limit for rectifier tubes in the GEL3N?


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Artist rendition of UT rolling tubes:



Could be worst.  I'm going to produce a new blend of expresso. For instance, using combination of 5998 with 7236 or Bendix 6080wb with GEC 6080 or RCA 6as7 with 6BL7.

One more question Glenn. What is the power output of the OTL amp. 1watt?


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> Artist rendition of UT rolling tubes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





ru4music said:


> Artist rendition of UT rolling tubes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The EL3N amp draws about 100 ma max so any 5 volt rectifier will work


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Could be worst.  I'm going to produce a new blend of expresso. For instance, using combination of 5998 with 7236 or Bendix 6080wb with GEC 6080 or RCA 6as7 with 6BL7.
> 
> One more question Glenn. What is the power output of the OTL amp. 1watt?



That is about right but it is according to the impedance of the phones and output tubes used.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Glenn. 1 watt is solid for driving headphones. La Figaro 339 is listed at > 0.6 watts.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> The EL3N amp draws about 100 ma max so any 5 volt rectifier will work



Thanks, but what is the current max for the filaments of the 5v and 3.3v rects.?


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> Thanks, but what is the current max for the filaments of the 5v and 3.3v rects.?



The rectifier winding is rated at 6.6 amps more then enough for any rectifier.


----------



## whirlwind

I have been using the 5CU4 rectifier in my amp.

I like it, have even been listening to the Ori in one tube mode the last couple of days.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> The rectifier winding is rated at 6.6 amps more then enough for any rectifier.



Thanks, that's enough to light up a Christmas tree!


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> The rectifier winding is rated at 6.6 amps more then enough for any rectifier.



6.6 amps for the EL3N? Wow! 

If I remember correctly, an OTL with the original transformer has a rectifier winding rated at 5.0 amps. And even this is likely enough for any rectifier. At the least, none of my rectifiers, 3.3V, 4V and 5V, totaling about 50 in all, draw more than 4.0 amps.


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> I have been using the 5CU4 rectifier in my amp.
> 
> I like it, have even been listening to the Ori in one tube mode the last couple of days.



Interesting!  Could you re-post the rectifiers used in your GEL3N and your order of preference?  I plan on keeping the UE 596 in place at least until I get 100+ hours burn-in on the amp (60 hours so far.)  It's still taking 31/2 to 4 hours before the EL3Ns sound their best on a listening session, although it seems that warmup time is getting quicker with more use.


----------



## ru4music

gibosi said:


> 6.6 amps for the EL3N? Wow!
> 
> If I remember correctly, an OTL with the original transformer has a rectifier winding rated at 5.0 amps. And even this is likely enough for any rectifier. At the least, none of my rectifiers, 3.3V, 4V and 5V, totaling about 50 in all, draw more than 4.0 amps.



Yes, the mighty 3DG4 (3.3V) takes 3.8 amps and it's a monster.


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> Yes, the mighty 3DG4 (3.3V) takes 3.8 amps and it's a monster.



Then there is the Russian 5U8C 5 volt at 5 amps.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Then there is the Russian 5U8C 5 volt at 5 amps.



The GEL3N is sounding very good, just started critical listening @ 4 hours in (warmup) and non critical listening at 2 hours in.  More to come...


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> The GEL3N is sounding very good, just started critical listening @ 4 hours in (warmup) and non critical listening at 2 hours in.  More to come...



Where's the pic huh? We need pictures with Carl Zeiss lens ok?


----------



## gibosi

ru4music said:


> Yes, the mighty 3DG4 (3.3V) takes 3.8 amps and it's a monster.



While I don't have the Russian 5U8C, I do have a fairly early Philips 1817, which draws 4 amps. And compared, side by side, to the 3DG4, I would say it looks pretty mighty.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> While I don't have the Russian 5U8C, I do have a fairly early Philips 1817, which draws 4 amps. And compared, side by side, to the 3DG4, I would say it looks pretty mighty.


That's  a mighty tube indeed

I hope to get one as well


----------



## UntilThen

That is HUGE. It's much bigger than my HEXFRED.


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 9, 2017)

ru4music said:


> Interesting!  Could you re-post the rectifiers used in your GEL3N and your order of preference?  I plan on keeping the UE 596 in place at least until I get 100+ hours burn-in on the amp (60 hours so far.)  It's still taking 31/2 to 4 hours before the EL3Ns sound their best on a listening session, although it seems that warmup time is getting quicker with more use.



Well, the UE 596 is wonderful...keep burning it in .
Four volt U18/20 ...this is probably my favorite so far
Lowe Radio AZ12 & Telefunken AZ12 are nice
3DG4 & 5CU4
These are my favorites so far...but I have many more that i would like to try..but I could honestly live with just these and be quite happy.
Amp sounds great no matter what tubes.

I agree the amp sounds best 2 - 3 hours in ....it does seem to get a tad quicker with more use.
I have really been diggin the first hour of listening in one tube mode, then switching over to two tube mode.

I only have about 10 rectifiers and most of my listening has come with the same headphone, so I have not even dipped in the waters of what I like with the HD800.









2359glenn said:


> Then there is the Russian 5U8C 5 volt at 5 amps.



You sent me one of these with my amp, i have only used it a small amount.


Looks like it came out of a nuclear reactor or something 

That Philips 1817 that Ken posted has to get the "big bully" award!


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> While I don't have the Russian 5U8C, I do have a fairly early Philips 1817, which draws 4 amps. And compared, side by side, to the 3DG4, I would say it looks pretty mighty.



Were did you get this tube I would like one.
If nothing else it looks cool.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I never really liked the audio technica phones but they sounded great on the EL3N.
> Maybe not as good as the 800s but right up there. And they are closed back so I can use them while sitting next to the
> lady while she is watching TV.
> Try those 32 ohm phones you might be surprised. Remember the output of the amp is 32 ohms a perfect match.



Yes, I do the same as my wife is in the living room watching tv and I can be less than 10 feet from hear and i can have my music as loud as I want.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Yes, I do the same as my wife is in the living room watching tv and I can be less than 10 feet from hear and i can have my music as loud as I want.



The beauty of closed back even though I don't think they sound as good as open HD-800s


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Well, the UE 596 is wonderful...keep burning it in .
> Four volt U18/20 ...this is probably my favorite so far
> Lowe Radio AZ12 & Telefunken AZ12 are nice
> 3DG4 & 5CU4
> ...



The 5U8C actually has a higher voltage drop then the 3DG4 and 5CU4 even though it has a massive cathode.
Don't know why. It is rated at 1700 volts but that doesn't matter in these amps.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The 5U8C actually has a higher voltage drop then the 3DG4 and 5CU4 even though it has a massive cathode.
> Don't know why. It is rated at 1700 volts but that doesn't matter in these amps.



That is interesting.

The price of the 3DG4 & 5CU4 make them such a no brainer, getting nice NOS tubes for very little money, and they sound great too.

I really love the low price  tube options your amps offer, at least until you reach the 300B
Also love the over kill in your amps, you never feel cheated of big effortless sound, if that makes sense.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Were did you get this tube I would like one.
> If nothing else it looks cool.



I picked it up on eBay.

The Philips 1817 is electrically equivalent to the Telefunken RGN4004 and the Valvo G4004. The 1817 doesn't popup all that often on eBay, maybe several times a year. There is a globe version from the early 1930's which, as best as I can tell from pictures, has the same internal structure. So my guess is this big ST bottle appeared in the mid 1930's. Somewhat later, likely in the late 1930's, a more compact ST version was introduced.

With the German invasion of the Netherlands in the spring of 1940, Philips lost control of Eindhoven until the end of the war, and production of the 1817 appears to have ceased. However, during the war, the G4004 was manufactured by Valvo at their Hamburg factory. Judging from the pictures I have seen, the G4004 looks very similar, but not identical, to the Eindhoven-made 1817.

I have seen no evidence that Philips resumed the manufacture of the 1817 at Eindhoven or the G4004 at Hamburg after the war. However, I have seen post-war FW4-500 and AZ50, both manufactured by Mullard, labeled as 1817 and G4004.

Early 1817 on the left and the later more compact 1817 on the right.


----------



## attmci

attmci said:


> This La Radiotechnique 5Y3gb rectifier (directly heated full-wave) is actually pretty good (for the price I got, about $20).
> 
> To be honest, the this "rare" La Radiotechnique 5Y3gb sounds significantly better than Philips 5Y3 (more air, larger sound stage).


I recommend this rectifier. Grab it if you see it.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Where's the pic huh? We need *pictures with Carl Zeiss lens *ok?



Ouch!  This hobby is getting more and more expensive all the time.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Ouch!  This hobby is getting more and more expensive all the time.



For me it's getting cheaper and cheaper. Just bought a Ken Rad 1633 for $12.99. If this sounds like the Ken Rad 6sn7gt which I paid $76.08, then I'm in good hands.

Oh I paid 10 pounds for a Brimar 13D1 from Langrex. I'm really curious to try out these 25 volts tubes.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Matt,

 Yes I can supply for several Christmas trees, the stock of 6AS7G is plenty.

I was busy setting up my media server, check this out. This is Hp Proliant Gen10 X3216 Microserver, has a max capacity of 32 gigs of RAM and 6 SATA connections. Initially, I have put 2 x 8TB WD Red NAS HDDs and 8 gigs of RAM. It has 2-gigabit ethernet cards, and 3 x 4k display ports. The Processor on the motherboard is AMD Opteron™ X3216 (1.6-3.0 GHz, 2 cores, 4 graphics cores, 1 MB, 12-15W).

This is the fastest microserver on the market in its stock condition.

I am going to use it as a media server and an HTPC. My Christmas tree will be lit this time 





UntilThen said:


> I think @Lord Raven  knows too. He once bought a stack of Chatham 6as7g for a few pennies. I need his services now.


----------



## UntilThen

Nice Naveed, you've been busy and spending !!! My music trove is more modest. A puny 2TB in a portable Seagate drive accessed by Auralic Aries Mini. However I spend equal amount of time on vinyl and CDs too. I have to have all the formats. 

Glenn Super 9 OTL amp arrives next week. After 2 years of this hobby, the excitement is ever growing and this could be the culmination of my audio odyssey.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Glenn Super 9 OTL amp arrives next week. After 2 years of this hobby, the excitement is ever growing and this could be the culmination of my audio odyssey.



UT, congrats on that soon-to-arrive GOTL! Still loving every minute spent with my GOTL. Super impressed.


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 9, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> For me it's getting cheaper and cheaper. Just bought a Ken Rad 1633 for $12.99. If this sounds like the Ken Rad 6sn7gt which I paid $76.08, then I'm in good hands.
> 
> Oh I paid 10 pounds for a Brimar 13D1 from Langrex. I'm really curious to try out these 25 volts tubes.



Guess no need to send a RCA 1633 with the amp Ken-Rad are better and yes they are the same tube as there 6SN7.
I love the sound of the 13D1 Lucky I gave all mine away.
Originally I designed the amp to just use the 1633 and 13D1 changed it because people
wanted to use 6SN7. Don't know why these tubes sound great and are cheep


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> UT, congrats on that soon-to-arrive GOTL! Still loving every minute spent with my GOTL. Super impressed.



Thanks mros. Good to hear from you. We have the 2 latest Glenn Super 9. The only difference is yours use 5 volt rectifiers and mine use hexfred.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Guess no need to send a RCA 1633 with the amp Ken-Rad are better and yes they are the same tube as there 6SN7.
> I love the sound of the 13D1 Lucky I gave all mine away.
> Originally I designed the amp to just use the 1633 and 13D1 changed it because people
> wanted to use 6SN7. Don't know why these tubes sound great and are cheep



They are cheap because they are 25 volts and not many amps are designed for that. 

Also looking forward to trying the gec and marconi b36.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn I once ask you about 6sl7 and 12sl7 and you said the gain is high. However quite a few here like the ecc35. Are the 12sl7 the equivalent of ecc35?

Is it ok to use 6sl7 or 12sl7 as a drop in in the 6sn7 slot?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> They are cheap because they are 25 volts and not many amps are designed for that.
> 
> Also looking forward to trying the gec and marconi b36.



And those 12 volt versions are much cheaper then the 6.3 volt b65


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn I once ask you about 6sl7 and 12sl7 and you said the gain is high. However quite a few here like the ecc35. Are the 12sl7 the equivalent of ecc35?
> 
> Is it ok to use 6sl7 or 12sl7 as a drop in in the 6sn7 slot?



You can try them maybe to much gain. ?


----------



## leftside

Got myself some new amps


----------



## leftside

From Reunification Palace in Ho Chi Minh


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Got myself some new amps



Does this ancient relic work?


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Got myself some new amps



Starting up a radio station?


----------



## ru4music

leftside said:


> Got myself some new amps



Wow, an old school HF band wireless media sever!


----------



## UntilThen

My GOTL left O'Hare International Chicago on the 9th Dec 10:45am, bound for Sydney. Not in my wildest imagination would I have thought this is how the year would end. Elated? Yes. Happy? Definitely. Humbled? You bet. It's been a good year and I'm in a reflective mood.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> My GOTL left O'Hare International Chicago on the 9th Dec 10:45am, bound for Sydney. Not in my wildest imagination would I have thought this is how the year would end. Elated? Yes. Happy? Definitely. Humbled? You bet. It's been a good year and I'm in a reflective mood.



Two more days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> My GOTL left O'Hare International Chicago on the 9th Dec 10:45am, bound for Sydney. Not in my wildest imagination would I have thought this is how the year would end. Elated? Yes. Happy? Definitely. Humbled? You bet. It's been a good year and I'm in a reflective mood.




It will be in your hands before you know it....post some unboxing pics  

Great find on the 1633 Ken Rad tube, I have a couple of 6 and 12 volt versions...I bought one of the 1633 too!


----------



## UntilThen

Joe, I'm glad you bought one of the 1633. Was hoping it would be bought by the members here. They are NOS and cheap. Yup, I'll do some pictures of the unboxing and the first thing I'll do is to throw the noodles into the pool.


----------



## UntilThen

It got to Japan. Ulysses departed Narita, Tokyo, Japan on the 10th Dec at 7:06pm. It's doing a bit of sightseeing before it comes home.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> It got to Japan. Ulysses departed Narita, Tokyo, Japan on the 10th Dec at 7:06pm. It's doing a bit of sightseeing before it comes home.



ユリシーズの最新情報をありがとう

https://translate.google.com/?oe=ut...F-8&hl=en&client=tw-ob#ja/en/ユリシーズの最新情報をありがとう


----------



## UntilThen

Kochirakoso arigatoo gozaimasu = which means you can have my green tea but give me your tube amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Drive safe ok? Get home for Christmas !


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Drive safe ok? Get home for Christmas !




Looks like here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't know about you guys that are having summer now.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Kochirakoso arigatoo gozaimasu = which means you can have my green tea but give me your tube amp.



The only thing you have that's green is your envy (i.e.  "green with envy") for my GEL3N amp! 

lol - Hey, what are you trying to pull here, that's only "Thank you." in Japanese.  

どういたしまして (your welcome!)


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Looks like here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I don't know about you guys that are having summer now.



50 degrees today in the Midwest, however, my sister and brother-in-law live in deep southern Texas (a few miles from Mexico) and they had snow covering the ground on Friday (crazy.)


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Looks like here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I don't know about you guys that are having summer now.



I want a snowy Christmas not a hot Christmas.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> I want a snowy Christmas not a hot Christmas.



With all those tubes you'll be plugging in the GOTL it will be even a hotter Christmas this year.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Where's the pic huh? We need pictures with Carl Zeiss lens ok?



This is the best I can do for now from my legacy LG 3 Android phone (crappy pictures, I have never been impressed.)  Anyway, this is my temporary make-do setup of GEL3N warming up for a session tonight: 

 

I need to pull out my Nikon DSLR and assorted lenses for a real photo shoot once I sort things out.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I want a snowy Christmas not a hot Christmas.



No you don't
I used to live in upstate New York by the Canadian border I had a Christmas -33 F or -36 C crazy cold.
You never want that.  I don't live there no more.


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 10, 2017)

ru4music said:


> This is the best I can do for now from my legacy LG 3 Android phone (crappy pictures, I have never been impressed.)  Anyway, this is my temporary make-do setup of GEL3N warming up for a session tonight:
> 
> 
> I need to pull out my Nikon DSLR and assorted lenses for a real photo shoot once I sort things out.



It still looks nice.Nice CD player!!

What is that rectifier tube you are using?


----------



## UntilThen

@ru4music that is an impressive setup. I like your tube CD player.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> No you don't
> I used to live in upstate New York by the Canadian border I had a Christmas *-33 F or -36 C crazy cold*.
> You never want that.  I don't live there no more.



In the decades past here in Nebraska I can remember some mornings approaching -30 F.  You literally can not breath deep or fast in that kind of cold.


----------



## ru4music (Dec 10, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> It still looks nice.Nice CD player!!
> 
> What is that rectifier tube you are using?



United Electric 596

Glenn, are u still planning to build your GEL3N over Christmas?  Or are you going with a different tube?


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> @ru4music that is an impressive setup. I like your tube CD player.



Thanks, it's a highly modified Shanling T-100 by Parts ConneXion of Canada.  It has tube and Opamp buffered outputs and tube headphone outputs, but I generally run the Philips transport directly to the X-Sabre DAC because it seems to resolve more detail.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> No you don't
> I used to live in upstate New York by the Canadian border I had a Christmas -33 F or -36 C crazy cold.
> You never want that.  I don't live there no more.



@UntilThen if you ever get the chance to experience this kind of cold DON'T do this (unless someone triple dog dares you ):


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> In the decades past here in Nebraska I can remember some mornings approaching -30 F.  You literally can not breath deep or fast in that kind of cold.



It is like death scary not a sound but the trees popping not a bird nothing.


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> United Electric 596
> 
> Glenn, are u still planning to build your GEL3N over Christmas?  Or are you going with a different tube?



I am building it but I sold it I have to wait until the end of January when my next transformers come. 
Lundahl is closed again for Christmas for 3 weeks.
Couldn't have the customer wait when I had the transformers for me.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> It is like death scary not a sound but the trees popping not a bird nothing.



That's what happens in the aftermath of a wild bushfire. 40 degrees hotness on some days in summer. Everything is burnt. I once had fiery flames chasing me on the highway. From my rearview mirror I can see flames and smoke leaping skyward. I floored the accelerator and barely made it from being bbq'ed.

But I admit. I cannot survive -35 degrees. I can't even survive zero degrees !!!


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> That's what happens in the aftermath of a wild bushfire. 40 degrees hotness on some days in summer. Everything is burnt. I once had fiery flames chasing me on the highway. From my rearview mirror I can see flames and smoke leaping skyward. I floored the accelerator and barely made it from being bbq'ed.
> 
> But I admit. I cannot survive -35 degrees. I can't even survive zero degrees !!!



Sounds like California US they are burning now in the winter and people died in their car trying to run from the fire.


----------



## mordy

Here in New York we had our first snow - around 5" where I live. 

I got a new sub woofer - an Elac S10. This one has the woofer facing down towards the floor (my old one was facing forward). Does anybody have experience where to place it in the room for best results?
The old one was along a side wall 2' from the corner. The new one is more powerful and has tighter bass, but I have not yet found the right placement and adjustments for my taste. How can I tell which crossover frequency to use?


----------



## gibosi

In my experience... many years ago.... YMMV... 

Generally speaking, placing the sub woofer in the corner horn-loads the bass and gives the most bass amplification. And moving it equidistant between two corners would give the least amplification due to room effects. So it will be necessary to move the woofer along the wall to find the best placement for your room.

The best crossover frequency is typically a function of the bass response of the satellites. That is, you would need to determine the frequency where the bass response of the satellites begins to roll-off. Around 100 Hz to 150 Hz is common. I usually set the crossover point as low as possible, given the bass response of the satellites, as I have found that it provides for a cleaner sound. But again, it will be necessary to try different crossover points in your system to find the best setting.


----------



## UntilThen

Ulysses is at a facility in Australia. It has finally arrived downunder.


----------



## leftside (Dec 11, 2017)

Pretty warm here in Cambodia.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Ulysses is at a facility in Australia. It has finally arrived downunder.



One more day then time to play.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Pretty warm here in Cambodia.


Cambodia or Canada?


----------



## UntilThen

Leftside is reliving Laura Croft's Tomb Raider and Indiana Jones's Tomb Raider in the ruins of Ancient Angkor Wat.


----------



## UntilThen

It's here but it has to wait till tonight when I get home from work for the unboxing.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> It's here but it has to wait till tonight when I get home from work for the unboxing.



Christmas is early. Ulysses successfully sailed home.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It's here but it has to wait till tonight when I get home from work for the unboxing.



I never thought you would get it so early in the morning before work.


----------



## leftside

Cambodia Phnom Pehn. Angkor Wat in 2 days time


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I never thought you would get it so early in the morning before work.



Santa delivered it himself with his best reindeers along with an astonishing looking Santarina.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Christmas is early. Ulysses successfully sailed home.



This has been the smoothest and fastest delivery from overseas for me. Very impressed with USPS.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> This has been the smoothest and fastest delivery from overseas for me. Very impressed with USPS.


Agreed. USPS did good this time. Roll those 6BL7/C3g and rock on!


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn Super 9 OTL amp unboxing. Nothing could prepare me for how this amp looks in the flesh. It is beautiful. I've seen a lot of good amps but GOTL is right up there in looks. Glenn has created an object of beauty.


----------



## UntilThen

Now for some glamour shots. 

This amp is masculine, purposeful and exudes quality. Every single part is quality stuff. The BHC capacitor filters looks really good up close, as does the chokes and Lundahl transformer. The power switch is a joy to operate. The Gold Point 47 steps volume knob has a very nice soft click when you operate it. I've never come across anything so refined. It's much better than Ragnarok's volume knob. The xlr input is very nice. Fits my headphones jack. The RCA jacks on the back is of a high quality. The switch for 6 / 12 and 25 volts has a firm solid feel. The switch for the 5998 boost has a very solid feel. Everything about the amp looks like it was put together with meticulous care and it's very obvious that Glenn uses only quality parts here.

The amp feels heavy. I haven't put it on the scales yet.


----------



## UntilThen

Next my initial listening impressions using Telefunken C3G/s and 4 x Los Gatos 6BX7gt and 2 x Fivre 6BX7gt. My first listening session is with C3G/s and 6 x 6BX7gt and I was in for a big surprise.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Now for some glamour shots.
> 
> This amp is masculine, purposeful and exudes quality. Every single part is quality stuff. The BHC capacitor filters looks really good up close, as does the chokes and Lundahl transformer. The power switch is a joy to operate. The Gold Point 47 steps volume knob has a very nice soft click when you operate it. I've never come across anything so refined. It's much better than Ragnarok's volume knob. The xlr input is very nice. Fits my headphones jack. The RCA jacks on the back is of a high quality. The switch for 6 / 12 and 25 volts has a firm solid feel. The switch for the 5998 boost has a very solid feel. Everything about the amp looks like it was put together with meticulous care and it's very obvious that Glenn uses only quality parts here.
> 
> The amp feels heavy. I haven't put it on the scales yet.



Thanks

Did you put the noodles in the pool?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Thanks
> 
> Did you put the noodles in the pool?



It's night time now. I ain't going down to the pool. 

Besides when I strap on Eikon and put on the SACD version on Dark Side of the Moon, I sat transfixed unable to move. I was oblivious to my wife calling me to have my dinner. I finished dinner not knowing what I ate but I was conscious of switching over to HD800 and being even more transfixed.


----------



## whirlwind

What a beauty of an amp Matt!

Enjoy


----------



## UntilThen

For a long time, I read what others are talking about GOTL, in particular that which runs C3Gs and 6 x 6BL7 / 6BX7 but I have not the faintest clue what they were talking about. Now I know. I'm hearing it now. 3 key words pop into my head. Damping, transient and dynamics. Damping is the way an amp control the headphones. Under damp and you get loose, flabby bass. Over damp and the bass is too lean and tight. On Hotel California when Don Henley hits the bongo drums, GOTL did it just right. I have never heard it sound so punchy and real.

This amp feels fast. Great transient attack but not overly so. Again I feel the attack is spot on. It's not over done or aggressive but it's punchy. On Jennifer Warnes' Famous Blue Raincoat 20th anniversary CD, the song 'First We Take Manhattan' comes alive. This is the part where I got transfixed.

Some tube amps are more romantic. Others are more dynamic. I personally prefer a lean towards dynamic with the ambience of tube goodness. GOTL dynamics got me hooked.

Alright I can't talk too much for now. I have to go back to listening again. This is addictive.

Some more pictures before I go.

For my initial listening session, I'm using my Pioneer SACD player with twin Burr Brown dac chips. This feeds direct into GOTL. Full of details and clarity. I've heard a lot of good amps this year but this is the best yet and it's right out of the box !!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Glad you like I try my best.


----------



## lukeap69

@UntilThen 

Matt - WE TOLD YOU SO.


----------



## UntilThen

You are too modest Glenn. 2 hours into my listening session and I'm wondering how could this amp not be more well known. The Feliks Audio amps were good. So is the La Figaro 339. However GOTL is in a different league. There is no comparison. I wouldn't have known to chase this tone but now that I hear it, it's really what I want.

I've heard C3G with 4 x 6BL7 in Elise but it's nothing like this. Which reinforce what I suspect all along. Nothing will sound as great as it is tuned in GOTL with these tubes. I've not even roll the other tubes yet. Slowly. I have all of summer to do that.


----------



## UntilThen

GOTL has been moved into my study. Now Yggdrasil is feeding it and Ragnarok. I can A/B it easily now. 

Arnold, I find the gain using C3G and 6 x 6BX7 just fine. It's not too much. Using Eikon or Atticus, my volume is between 8 to 9 am. With HD800, the volume is between 9 to 10 am. That seems perfectly fine to me. I really like the blue glow from the power on button.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> GOTL has been moved into my study. Now Yggdrasil is feeding it and Ragnarok. I can A/B it easily now.
> 
> Arnold, I find the gain using C3G and 6 x 6BX7 just fine. It's not too much. Using Eikon or Atticus, my volume is between 8 to 9 am. With HD800, the volume is between 9 to 10 am. That seems perfectly fine to me. I really like the blue glow from the power on button.



Great to hear. With C3g and 6BL7, I cannot even go to 2nd click on my Darna whereas I can crank up the volume pot on my Ragnarok at 12 to 1 PM in medium gain (as a reference) using HD800. 6BX7's have slightly lower gain that 6BL7's.


----------



## UntilThen

Ragnarok is a powerful amp but no more powerful than GOTL according to my ears. It's well known that you have to turn up the volume on Rag to get corresponding loudness.

A quick A/B between GOTL and Rag clearly shows the GOTL as the better sounding amp to my ears. It's startling to hear the details and precise imaging from GOTL. In every aspect, it betters Ragnarok. Headstage, bass weight and control, high frequency extension and mid range supremacy. Don't forget, I really like Ragnarok prior to Ulysses arrival. 

It's past midnight and I'm not in the mood to sleep.


----------



## UntilThen

Had LCD-2f on and it feels like a new headphone !!! What a transformation. Volume at 10 to 11 am. This Audeze is 70 ohms and it's a breeze for GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

Biggest surprise is my modified HD650. It can't sound this good. The control on bass is astounding.


----------



## 2359glenn

The LCD-2 might sound better with the 5998 or GEC6AS7s more power then the 6BX7. But the 6BX7/6BL7 sound better.

Go to bed you silly man.


----------



## Rossliew

Hahahaha...a kid and his new toy


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Biggest surprise is my modified HD650. It can't sound this good. The control on bass is astounding.


Wonderful, isn't it? Although I like the HD650 with the GEC 6AS7 better!


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 12, 2017)

Went to bed at 1am and woke up at 4:30am to listen to a Deeper Understanding by War On Drugs.   Off the C3G and 6BX7s goes and in comes RCA 1633 and a pair of chubby 6336s. Using LCD-2F. Head bobbing and toes tapping at this ungodly hour. Life's good. Christmas is already here !!! 

Thanks for the 1633 tube, Glenn. I flick the switch to 25 volts but have not flick the boost switch yet.

Volume at 12 noon !!!


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> For a long time, I read what others are talking about GOTL, in particular that which runs C3Gs and 6 x 6BL7 / 6BX7 but I have not the faintest clue what they were talking about. Now I know. I'm hearing it now. 3 key words pop into my head. Damping, transient and dynamics. Damping is the way an amp control the headphones. Under damp and you get loose, flabby bass. Over damp and the bass is too lean and tight. On Hotel California when Don Henley hits the bongo drums, GOTL did it just right. I have never heard it sound so punchy and real.
> 
> This amp feels fast. Great transient attack but not overly so. Again I feel the attack is spot on. It's not over done or aggressive but it's punchy. On Jennifer Warnes' Famous Blue Raincoat 20th anniversary CD, the song 'First We Take Manhattan' comes alive. This is the part where I got transfixed.
> 
> ...



Nice!  Enjoy!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn can I flick the boost switch when the amp is already powered on?


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Went to bed at 1am and woke up at 4:30am to listen to a Deeper Understanding by War On Drugs.   Off the C3G and 6BX7s goes and in comes RCA 1633 and a pair of chubby 6336s. Using LCD-2F. Head bobbing and toes tapping at this ungodly hour. Life's good. Christmas is already here !!!
> 
> Thanks for the 1633 tube, Glenn. I flick the switch to 25 volts but have not flick the boost switch yet.




Another beautiful Glen OTL!  Congrats again. 
Love those '80s Cetron 6336Bs, incredible combination with the C3gs.
Like the C3gs, incredibly dynamic, detailed and natural. And SO quiet!
Like the best concert hall seats, close enough to hear and feel instrument timbre
and just enough distance to fully appreciate the hall acoustics.
(And that's without the 5998 switch.)

Will be looking forward to all of your exploration with that extensive tube collection.
Don't think you'll be selling this one... Just bugging Glenn to build you another amp!

Beautiful work, Glenn. (I need one for my office. : ))


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Glenn can I flick the boost switch when the amp is already powered on?



What I do: Dsconnect the headphones.. flip the switch to 5998.. and then reconnect the headphones... never a problem so far.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> What I do: Dsconnect the headphones.. flip the switch to 5998.. and then reconnect the headphones... never a problem so far.



You are right. I tried it and I didn't get ejected from my study. Now we are talking. Boost switch on, the Cetron 6336s sounds really good. Volume is now down a notch to 11am for the same loudness.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Don't think you'll be selling this one...



There's no way this is going to happen the way the amp is driving my headphones now. I'm musically connected. Those electrons are flowing through me. This is surprising me more than the Woo WA5. GOTL is more precise and more punchy and more euphonic. The amp is quiet and there's not a murmur of hum or noise. With no music playing, I could turn the volume all the way to 3pm and it's still dead quiet. It's only past 3pm that some noise creeps in but very soft. 

When I was listening to Dark Side of The Moon, I hear details that I've not heard before. I was very surprised. This amp is worthy of a place in a reference system.


----------



## 2359glenn

You can flip the switch with the amp on. I would unplug the headphones as there will be a loud pop.

You are going to drive yourself crazy trying all the different tube combinations.  You will have to go to work before you go nuts.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Glenn. I did just that. Headphones unplug before the boost switch on.

Going nuts is a common symptoms with this amp. I had known that it would be good but I have no idea how good it would be. No wonder Zach told me he would love to get a Glenn amp despite the many tube amps he already has. One more song before I go to work. An oldie from Dan Fogelberg.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Thanks Glenn. I did just that. Headphones unplug before the boost switch on.
> 
> Going nuts is a common symptoms with this amp. I had known that it would be good but I have no idea how good it would be. No wonder Zach told me he would love to get a Glenn amp despite the many tube amps he already has. One more song before I go to work. An oldie from Dan Fogelberg.



Yeah, that’s partially my fault for bringing it over to his house before the last Chicago meet, lol. Funny part is, it sounds so much better now than it did a couple of months ago when he heard it. Since then, I acquired a couple nice 5U4GB rectifiers (was using a nice RCA 5U4G at the time but the RCA 5U4GB sounds clearly better... for like $10!), and FOUND a sweet Mullard ECC31 w/ an ECC31 to ECC33 adaptor sitting in the bottom of the box the tubes shipped in back when I bought the GOTL (I almost threw this little gem away!). It’s at a whole new level now, just shockingly good.

Also just got a quad of Sylvania 6BL7’s in the mail. My 6080 to dual 6BL7 adaptors and 6SN7 to 6922 adaptors should be here Thursday. Can’t wait!


----------



## whirlwind

There literally is enough tube combos to drive you nuts Matt.

I am glad you are enjoying it.  I told you you would love it!

Now , get some sleep


----------



## whirlwind

Hansotek said:


> Yeah, that’s partially my fault for bringing it over to his house before the last Chicago meet, lol. Funny part is, it sounds so much better now than it did a couple of months ago when he heard it. Since then, I acquired a couple nice 5U4GB rectifiers (was using a nice RCA 5U4G at the time but the RCA 5U4GB sounds clearly better... for like $10!), and FOUND a sweet Mullard ECC31 w/ an ECC31 to ECC33 adaptor sitting in the bottom of the box the tubes shipped in back when I bought the GOTL (I almost threw this little gem away!). It’s at a whole new level now, just shockingly good.
> 
> Also just got a quad of Sylvania 6BL7’s in the mail. My 6080 to dual 6BL7 adaptors and 6SN7 to 6922 adaptors should be here Thursday. Can’t wait!




Very nice, those ECC31 tubes sound wonderful.

Did Zach listen to it with all of his ZMF line ?


----------



## Hansotek

whirlwind said:


> Very nice, those ECC31 tubes sound wonderful.
> 
> Did Zach listen to it with all of his ZMF line ?



I hooked up my cherry Atticus right away, so he heard that first, then we hooked up the blackwood Auteur and listened to that for a bit. Not sure if he heard it with anything else at the meet at all (probably not, as it was crowded and busy). He liked the GOTL a lot though. The synergy with his 300 ohm dynamics is just spot on.


----------



## whirlwind

Hansotek said:


> I hooked up my cherry Atticus right away, so he heard that first, then we hooked up the blackwood Auteur and listened to that for a bit. Not sure if he heard it with anything else at the meet at all (probably not, as it was crowded and busy). He liked the GOTL a lot though. The synergy with his 300 ohm dynamics is just spot on.



Thanks. I am sure I will have a few nights without much sleep next week.

So excited to finally hear that headphone.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> Yeah, that’s partially my fault for bringing it over to his house before the last Chicago meet, lol. Funny part is, it sounds so much better now than it did a couple of months ago when he heard it. Since then, I acquired a couple nice 5U4GB rectifiers (was using a nice RCA 5U4G at the time but the RCA 5U4GB sounds clearly better... for like $10!), and FOUND a sweet Mullard ECC31 w/ an ECC31 to ECC33 adaptor sitting in the bottom of the box the tubes shipped in back when I bought the GOTL (I almost threw this little gem away!). It’s at a whole new level now, just shockingly good.
> 
> Also just got a quad of Sylvania 6BL7’s in the mail. My 6080 to dual 6BL7 adaptors and 6SN7 to 6922 adaptors should be here Thursday. Can’t wait!



So it was you !  Good job.

 Can't believe you haven't tried that Ecc31 all this time. One of the premier drivers.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> So it was you !  Good job.
> 
> Can't believe you haven't tried that Ecc31 all this time. One of the premier drivers.



It’s been a couple months since I found it. It’s been in the GOTL ever since.


----------



## mordy

Hansotek said:


> It’s been a couple months since I found it. It’s been in the GOTL ever since.


hi Hansotek,
In addition to the Mullard ECC31 I have some 6N7G French tubes made for the French Air force which should be the same as the ECC31. Are you saying that they can be used as drivers with an ECC31 to ECC33 adapter?


----------



## Hansotek

mordy said:


> hi Hansotek,
> In addition to the Mullard ECC31 I have some 6N7G French tubes made for the French Air force which should be the same as the ECC31. Are you saying that they can be used as drivers with an ECC31 to ECC33 adapter?



Works on mine, I don’t know if my amp differs from yours in any other way, but they are both 6.3V tubes. Don’t want to give you a bum steer, may just want to double check with @2359glenn


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> hi Hansotek,
> In addition to the Mullard ECC31 I have some 6N7G French tubes made for the French Air force which should be the same as the ECC31. Are you saying that they can be used as drivers with an ECC31 to ECC33 adapter?



The ECC33 has the same pinout as the 6SN7. And the 6N7G has the same pinout as the ECC31. So yes, an ECC31 to ECC33 adapter will work fine with the 6N7G.


----------



## UntilThen

Excited to get home for day 2 listening session. I had to find out how quad 5998 with boost 'switch on' sounds driven by C3Gs. I chose a most fitting song. Comfortably Numb by Pink Floyd. This amp is magnificently powerful in this tube combination and in total control. HD800 is back on the head. I am astonished at how impactful the Senn's bass sounded. This is a different headphone now. I craved this new found tone. It's a powerful rendition of this Pink Floyd classic.

I won't be using quad 5998 too often. These energetic tubes needs to be preserved. I'll get quad Svetlana 6h13c for 'normal' days instead and use the quad 5998 for special occasions. 

Listening to the Wall album by Pink Floyd now and the song 'Run like hell' came on. It's explosive. This amp is darn special.


----------



## UntilThen

The amp has settled down already. It's dead quiet with no music playing and volume to MAX !!! For a tube amp to sound so quiet is very impressive. The noise I heard yesterday must be the 6336 tubes lighting up for the first time in it's tube life.

3 things I really appreciate about this amp. The power switch has a nice soft touch. Never seen anything like it. The Gold Point 47 stepped attenuator is great. Very fine control of the volume. The seemingly well oiled xlr socket encourages me to swap my headphones.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> The amp has settled down already. It's dead quiet with no music playing and volume to MAX !!! For a tube amp to sound so quiet is very impressive. The noise I heard yesterday must be the 6336 tubes lighting up for the first time in it's tube life.
> 
> 3 things I really appreciate about this amp. The power switch has a nice soft touch. Never seen anything like it. The Gold Point 47 stepped attenuator is great. Very fine control of the volume. The seemingly well oiled xlr socket encourages me to swap my headphones.



Good parts make the amp.
The XLR is Amphenol made for military head sets quite good.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Good parts make the amp.
> The XLR is Amphenol made for military head sets quite good.



I can see that now. Every socket and switch on the amp works with a velvet touch and Swiss watch precision smoothness.

Listening to Sadeness by Enigma now. The US violent remix version and it's ballsy and gutsy.


----------



## 2359glenn

You need to try the 25 volt 13D1 and 12 volt B36 and see how they sound. Wonderful tubes.

Have to get ready to go to work now.
Have fun


----------



## UntilThen

Will do so. I've not heard those tubes before so I'm keen to have a go. You have a great day at work while I torture myself with music here. It's a nice kind of torture.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Excited to get home for day 2 listening session. I had to find out how quad 5998 with boost 'switch on' sounds driven by C3Gs. I chose a most fitting song. Comfortably Numb by Pink Floyd. This amp is magnificently powerful in this tube combination and in total control. HD800 is back on the head. I am astonished at how impactful the Senn's bass sounded. This is a different headphone now. I craved this new found tone. It's a powerful rendition of this Pink Floyd classic.
> 
> I won't be using quad 5998 too often. These energetic tubes needs to be preserved. I'll get quad Svetlana 6h13c for 'normal' days instead and use the quad 5998 for special occasions.
> 
> Listening to the Wall album by Pink Floyd now and the song 'Run like hell' came on. It's explosive. This amp is darn special.




Great idea to get some cheaper  6AS7G tubes to run in quad and the same for 6080 tubes.

Even the Thomson 6080 tubes sound great in Glenns amps , especially with the C3g in the driver seat.

You can get them for like $9-$10 each for NOS


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Ragnarok is a powerful amp but no more powerful than GOTL according to my ears. It's well known that you have to turn up the volume on Rag to get corresponding loudness.
> 
> A quick A/B between GOTL and Rag clearly shows the GOTL as the better sounding amp to my ears. It's startling to hear the details and precise imaging from GOTL. In every aspect, it betters Ragnarok. Headstage, bass weight and control, high frequency extension and mid range supremacy. Don't forget, I really like Ragnarok prior to Ulysses arrival.
> 
> It's past midnight and I'm not in the mood to sleep.



Looks like a for sale ad will be up soon for the Rag


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Looks like a for sale ad will be up soon for the Rag



Hahaha... it's true that the Rag has been eclipsed but selling it will be a big lost so I might use it as a door stopper. 

GOTL is flying now. Every tube combo that I try sounds great. This is really all the amp that I need. 

I'm running Marconi B36 and Bendix 6080wb now. None of my previous amps can touch the GOTL for sonic excellence. It is that good.  This amp is a chameleon of sound. There's a depth and texture to this Marconi and Bendix combination that no artist can portray.


----------



## UntilThen

Just realised that the boost switch is on for this Marconi and Bendix combination. Switch it off now. Now the volume dial is at 12 noon using HD800. Switching to Atticus soon.


----------



## Rossliew

UT, you make me want to order the GOTL...maybe with lesser options just the necessary tube combo. 

Care to share your fav tube combo for a muscular, dynamic, hard-hitting sound with high impedance headphones?


----------



## Hansotek

I can see now that the dual C3G adaptor will be my next purchase for th GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> UT, you make me want to order the GOTL...maybe with lesser options just the necessary tube combo.
> 
> Care to share your fav tube combo for a muscular, dynamic, hard-hitting sound with high impedance headphones?



Ross do it and no scaling back. Your only choice would be whether it's tube or hexfred rectifier. Frankly I am very happy with hexfred even though I haven't heard tube rectifiers. I have just started tube rolling so I cannot give you a firm answer on my fav tube combo but for a muscular, dynamic, hard hitting sound, it's hard to go past C3Gs with 6 x 6BX7 or C3Gs with quad 5998. 

I don't know what it's like not having Gold Point attenuator but that will save you $300. The boost switch has a marginal gain increase but in this amp a marginal increase is significant.

There's really nothing to scale back. I would still go with the same configuration if I have to do it again. I'm now running Brimar 13D1 (25 volt) with 2 x Mullard 6080 and 2 x Bendix 6080wb. I'm liking these quad power tubes. It has that extra ooomph. 

Ross, I prefer this setup of Yggdrasil > GOTL > HD800 over Yggdrasil > Blue Hawaii > Stax SR-009. It's as resolving from recollection and more dynamic and impactful certainly. Much cheaper definitely. Glenn's amps are incredible value.


----------



## UntilThen

I've put on Atticus now and there's every reason to smile with these headphones driven by GOTL. There's depth, width and height increase to the headstage the likes of which I have not heard before. With imaging so precise, you hear individual instruments clearly and the loud and soft passages so clearly delineated. This is a full on sound with a full dose of clarity and details. It's rivalling my speaker systems for excitement and that's saying much.

My wife keeps reminding me of the various christmas engagements we have to go to but I'm like.... do I really have to? I just want to stay in my man cave and boggie.


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 13, 2017)

I think keep it like yours maybe save the $300 and go with a Alps Blue Velvet pot for the volume control.
The boost switch actually decreases the impedance and has more effect with low impedance
phones.


----------



## UntilThen

The basic amp without the Gold Point attenuator and boost switch is really good enough I suspect. That would be incredible value. I know of no other amps providing that level of sonic goodness at this price. It's criminally cheap and still have all the good parts.


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 13, 2017)

Oh @DecentLevi  I forgot to alert you but impressions for GOTL have already started. You can start reading from a few pages back, right from the unboxing.

Here, from this point forth.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1138#post-13908936


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 13, 2017)

My first experimental time exposure. 

The Mullards can really light up.


----------



## gibosi

Hansotek said:


> I can see now that the dual C3G adaptor will be my next purchase for th GOTL.



It's certainly worth a try. But keep in mind that the biasing for a C3g is very different than that for a 6SN7. And therefore, the C3g's will never be all that "comfortable" in a 6SN7 circuit and won't sound nearly as good as they would in circuit specifically designed for them.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> The basic amp without the Gold Point attenuator and boost switch is really good enough I suspect. That would be incredible value. I know of no other amps providing that level of sonic goodness at this price. It's criminally cheap and still have all the good parts.



And if you can tolerate a little transformer hum, a GOTL with the original transformer is a steal.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> And if you can tolerate a little transformer hum, a GOTL with the original transformer is a steal.



I agree. That would be ridiculously cheap and still sound incredible with the Glenn house sound.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> It's certainly worth a try. But keep in mind that the biasing for a C3g is very different than that for a 6SN7. And therefore, the C3g's will never be all that "comfortable" in a 6SN7 circuit and won't sound nearly as good as they would in circuit specifically designed for them.



It will work but the cathode resistor used with the C3g is less then 1/2 what it is for a SN7


----------



## UntilThen

On the 3rd day, the GECs roll out in force and we're talking Jedi force here. Gec B36, Gec 6080, Gec 6as7g. Thank you Santa. Thank you. I mean Stavros. If I could have 12 sets of these tubes I would. It's decadent sound.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh ma gawd, the GECs sound so good. This is the best Christmas ever. Thanks Glenn. I really appreciate your making this amp for me. I'm touched not just aurally but in every way.


----------



## UntilThen

The GECs has the most incredible tone. Utter smoothness, velvet and satin touch. The most holographic, euphonic tone of the lot. The best high frequency extension, such a beautiful sounding mids and bass perfection.


----------



## UntilThen

The star of the show on this amp at this point of my assessment is the C3G and 6 x 6BX7gt.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> The star of the show on this amp at this point of my assessment is the C3G and 6 x 6BX7gt.



Better then the GEC ?
And the 6BX7s are cheep to.


----------



## whirlwind

UT...you have my head spinning with all of those tube combos already  

Got my tracking number for my Atticus...it should be here Friday.


----------



## rnros

Hansotek said:


> I can see now that the dual C3G adaptor will be my next purchase for th GOTL.



Also be aware that some of the C3g adapters being sold are too tight for the C3g. Purchased one of these and was not able to insert the C3g without exerting excessive force.
There was some discussion on another thread about this with the result being that some C3gs were damaged. Might be a good idea to confirm with the seller that the C3g sockets used are OK.


----------



## rnros (Dec 13, 2017)

Glenn, a question about the total amp draw on the Lundahl/GOTL, you noted recently that the max was 13 amps.
However, with the 6336Bs @ 5A each, and a typical rectifier like the GZ37 @ 2.8A, or the 596/1641 @ 3A, that is already 12.8A or 13A, so adding the driver/s exceeds the 13A max.
Have been using the GOTL for weeks that way with no apparent problem, assuming this falls within the design margin of safety for the trans?
Have also used the 5CU4 and 5AW4, which adds another .5A or .7A, should I stay away from those when using the 6336Bs?


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 13, 2017)

rnros said:


> Glenn, a question about the total amp draw on the Lundahl/GOTL, you noted recently that the max was 13 amps.
> However, with the 6336Bs @ 5A each, and a typical rectifier like the GZ37 @ 2.8A, or the 596/1641 @ 3A, that is already 12.8A or 13A, so adding the driver/s exceeds the 13A max.
> Have been using the GOTL for weeks that way with no apparent problem, assuming this falls within the design margin of safety for the trans?
> Have also used the 5CU4 and 5AW4, which adds another .5A or .7A, should I stay away from those when using the 6336Bs?



It is a 250 VA transformer so going slightly over is not going to matter much.
The 5CU4 and 5AW4 are good rectifiers to use with the 6336 to supply the high
current these tubes draw.


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 13, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> Better then the GEC ?
> And the 6BX7s are cheep to.



Not a case of better. They are different each with very appealing sonic characteristics.

Gec is very refined and smooth. Very linear in the frequency range.

6bx7 is energetic and impactful.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> UT...you have my head spinning with all of those tube combos already
> 
> Got my tracking number for my Atticus...it should be here Friday.



You will love it Joe and you have 2 good amps to try it on.


----------



## Hansotek

rnros said:


> Also be aware that some of the C3g adapters being sold are too tight for the C3g. Purchased one of these and was not able to insert the C3g without exerting excessive force.
> There was some discussion on another thread about this with the result being that some C3gs were damaged. Might be a good idea to confirm with the seller that the C3g sockets used are OK.



Thanks for the tip!


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> It is a 250 VA transformer so going slightly over is not going to matter much.
> The 5CU4 and 5AW4 are good rectifiers to use with the 6336 to supply the high
> current these tubes draw.



Good. Thanks, Glenn. 
Also good sounding rectifiers, 5CU4 and 5AW4, especially at $10-$20.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Not a case of better. They are different each with very appealing sonic characteristics.
> 
> Gec is very refined and smooth. Very linear in the frequency range.
> 
> 6bx7 is energetic and impactful.



I love my GECs. Can’t wait to try my quad of 6BL7s when the adaptors get here tomorrow, based on your comments so far!


----------



## jekjek

rnros said:


> Also be aware that some of the C3g adapters being sold are too tight for the C3g. Purchased one of these and was not able to insert the C3g without exerting excessive force.
> There was some discussion on another thread about this with the result being that some C3gs were damaged. Might be a good idea to confirm with the seller that the C3g sockets used are OK.


I broke one of my c3g because the adapter was too tight
I make the adapter loose by opening up the adapter using small screw driver


----------



## 2359glenn

You can also try the dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter don't sound bad.


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> You can also try the dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter don't sound bad.



I haven’t forgotten. It’s still sitting in my eBay cart as I obsessively stalk the web for the right EL3Ns. 

Without asking too much of your time, can you provide any insight as to how the two tube types (C3G and EL3N) compare sonically? Basically, I’m wondering 3 things: 

1. Which one tends to be more impactful?
2. Which one has better dynamic texture on a micro level?
3. Which one is warmer?

That will at least help me figure out which one to chase first!


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Not a case of better. They are different each with very appealing sonic characteristics.
> 
> Gec is very refined and smooth. Very linear in the frequency range.
> 
> 6bx7 is energetic and impactful.



Matt - what is your most favourite combo so far? HD800/6BX7, Atticus/GEC6AS7, etc?


----------



## mordy

Hansotek said:


> I haven’t forgotten. It’s still sitting in my eBay cart as I obsessively stalk the web for the right EL3Ns.
> 
> Without asking too much of your time, can you provide any insight as to how the two tube types (C3G and EL3N) compare sonically? Basically, I’m wondering 3 things:
> 
> ...


No need to stalk the internet for the best EL3N tubes. The best source is a supplier in Holland for approximately $20-25 each (the name escapes me for the moment, but i am sure somebody will provide the link).


----------



## mordy

jekjek said:


> I broke one of my c3g because the adapter was too tight
> I make the adapter loose by opening up the adapter using small screw driver


About the fragility of the C3g tubes:
It is my belief that the tempered glass envelope is more fragile than other tubes (perhaps because these tubes were used for under water transatlantic cables and they required a different kind of glass envelope to withstand high pressures).
Most tubes are removed by a rocking action ("rolling tubes"). This could result in glass breakage with C3g tubes. The best way is to push them straight in, and use a small thin flat screwdriver to gradually pry around the bottom of the tube and slowly lift it up little by little. 
Enlarging and loosening up the pin holes, especially the center pin, also helps.
BTW, this learning experience cost me two C3gS tubes.....


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> No need to stalk the internet for the best EL3N tubes. The best source is a supplier in Holland for approximately $20-25 each (the name escapes me for the moment, but i am sure somebody will provide the link).



http://www.acoustic-dimension.com


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> http://www.acoustic-dimension.com


Thanks - I have 10 EL3N tubes from them, and it is rare to get such pristine tubes and their price is very good as well.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Matt - what is your most favourite combo so far? HD800/6BX7, Atticus/GEC6AS7, etc?



Arnold it's too early to tell. I'm rolling most tubes / headphones to get an initial impression.

I will burn in the new tubes and amp whilst enjoying myself along the way.

I will summarise when the amp has gotten some 200 hours.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Arnold it's too early to tell. I'm rolling most tubes / headphones to get an initial impression.
> 
> I will burn in the new tubes and amp whilst enjoying myself along the way.
> 
> I will summarise when the amp has gotten some 200 hours.



Yes it is early but you could always change your mind later...


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 14, 2017)

lukeap69 said:


> Yes it is early but you could always change your mind later...



It's going to be a tight race between the headphones and various tube combinations. Some early impressive combinations are:-

C3Gs with 6 x 6BX7gt and HD800, Eikon, Atticus, LCD-2f
C3Gs with quad 5998 and HD800, Eikon, Atticus, LCD-2f
Gec B36 with Gec 6080 and Gec 6as7g and HD800, Eikon, Atticus, LCD-2f

You can tell I'm very impressed with how all 4 of my fav headphones are performing with GOTL and these tubes.

There are a lot more power and especially driver tubes that I've yet to try. Namely, Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, FDD20, ECC31, Tung Sol 6F8G, Mazda 6N7G, Fivre 6N7G brown base. Initial impressions of B36, 1633 and 13D1 are good. I also think that 6336 has a lot of promise but I need more time with it, especially burning in that new monster tube.

Towards the end, I'll invite my friend Jimmy over with his WA5 and Utopia headphone. I want to road test GOTL side by side with WA5 and get some time on Utopia with GOTL. I'll see if I can get the other guy with Abyss over as well. In the interim, when GOTL has burn in, I'll run it side by side with La Figaro 339 for a direct comparison.

Initial impressions are a good indications though of things to come. I'm going to leave the GEC tubes in GOTL for a longer time because it's sounding so good. I find it hard to switch the tubes for the time being. Lastly you're only going to get as good as what you feed it. To this end, I'm really fond of Yggdrasil and what it can do.


----------



## lukeap69

Thanks Matt. The C3g-6BX7 combo is really great. Then the GEC 6AS7G brings something different but also excellent in the table.

I would be very interested with your comparisons with the WA5, etc.

In the past, my friend who is not a HD800 fan (he has an LCD-3 amongst others) auditioned my HD800 and Darna and came away really, really impressed. That's how good Glenn OTL is.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hansotek said:


> I haven’t forgotten. It’s still sitting in my eBay cart as I obsessively stalk the web for the right EL3Ns.
> 
> Without asking too much of your time, can you provide any insight as to how the two tube types (C3G and EL3N) compare sonically? Basically, I’m wondering 3 things:
> 
> ...



Chase the C3g first !!!!  The C3g might be the best tube ever made.  It has the most clarity and is the most transparent
with the most micro details.

The EL3N is warmer though.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> In the past, my friend who is not a HD800 fan (he has an LCD-3 amongst others) auditioned my HD800 and Darna and came away really, really impressed. That's how good Glenn OTL is.



I can relate to that. That very first session with GOTL and Eikon with C3G-6BX7 is an epiphany moment.  I was listening to a very special tone.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Chase the C3g first !!!!  The C3g might be the best tube ever made.  It has the most clarity and is the most transparent
> with the most micro details.
> 
> The EL3N is warmer though.



Concur fully. That's how I hear it.


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 14, 2017)

lukeap69 said:


> Yes it is early but you could always change your mind later...



Good point Arnold...when it comes to tube rolling and a favorite sound, I find that it varies with what mood and what album I am playing at the time.

Sometimes you like dynamics and impact...sometimes you like warm and romantic...I have certain albums and artist that I prefer with a certain combo.

For instance when I listen to Gary Moore, I prefer a warm driver tube, as Gary's guitar already has a lot of detail and a some what bright sound.

Glenns amp is very transparent to tube rolling, so sometimes nothing more than a driver change does the trick


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Good point Arnold...when it comes to tube rolling and a favorite sound, I find that it varies with what mood and what album I am playing at the time.
> 
> Sometimes you like dynamics and impact...sometimes you like warm and romantic...I have certain albums and artist that I prefer with a certain combo.
> 
> ...



You hit the nail on its head Joe. I prefer the 6AS7's with Cat Steven's Tea for the Tillerman and 6BX7's for Dire Straits' Sultans... It is so nice to have this option in one amp! So much value for money IMHO.


----------



## UntilThen

I thought the GEC tubes were very good but I needed to hear C3G - 6BX7 again. So in they go again. While I agree with you Joe and Arnold that the beauty of this amp is the many tones we can custom it with but this C3G - 6BX7 is it. Wow just wow. With HD800, this is high fidelity. This has shot to top of the class. You need to listen to C3Gs with 6 x 6BX7. This is where the magic is.

A caution though. When I had seated all the tubes, I detected a constant hum on the right channel that wasn't there the first time I heard this combination. I could tell it's from the right C3G. I tap it lightly with my finger and hey presto, the hum disappeared. So make sure you seat it correctly and leave it alone.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> I thought the GEC tubes were very good but I needed to hear C3G - 6BX7 again. So in they go again. While I agree with you Joe and Arnold that the beauty of this amp is the many tones we can custom it with but this C3G - 6BX7 is it. Wow just wow. With HD800, this is high fidelity. This has shot to top of the class. You need to listen to C3Gs with 6 x 6BX7. This is where the magic is.
> 
> A caution though. When I had seated all the tubes, I detected a constant hum on the right channel that wasn't there the first time I heard this combination. I could tell it's from the right C3G. I tap it lightly with my finger and hey presto, the hum disappeared. So make sure you seat it correctly and leave it alone.



C3g-6BX7 has been the long running combo in my Darna amp since I can only use C3g as drivers and it took me a while to hunt GEC 6AS7's (these tubes are ridiculously expensive!) The C3g-6BX7 is my favourite combo for my HD800 SD. Hands down. However, there is something lacking in midrange and in the highs when using HD650 compared to the GEC 6AS7. If I did not hear the GEC 6AS7 with my HD650. I wouldn't even remove the 6BX7 from my Darna.


----------



## rnros

jekjek said:


> I broke one of my c3g because the adapter was too tight
> I make the adapter loose by opening up the adapter using small screw driver



Thanks, thought about trying something like that, but then the GOTL was completed sooner than I expected.
The GOTL I have has the dedicated C3g sockets.


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> Chase the C3g first !!!!  The C3g might be the best tube ever made.  It has the most clarity and is the most transparent
> with the most micro details.
> 
> The EL3N is warmer though.



Thanks! I’ll have both before long anyway, but it helps to know what to expect. C3g is at the front of the line!


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> C3g-6BX7 has been the long running combo in my Darna amp since I can only use C3g as drivers and it took me a while to hunt GEC 6AS7's (these tubes are ridiculously expensive!) The C3g-6BX7 is my favourite combo for my HD800 SD. Hands down. However, there is something lacking in midrange and in the highs when using HD650 compared to the GEC 6AS7. If I did not hear the GEC 6AS7 with my HD650. I wouldn't even remove the 6BX7 from my Darna.



While many here seem to think that all makes and brands of 6BX7 sound the same, in my experience, 6 Sylvania sound quite different than 6 GE or 6 RCA or what have you. For example, compared to other makes, I find Sylvanias to be very lively with sparkly highs. So when you say "there is something lacking in midrange and in the highs", it would be useful to know precisely which 6BX7 you have installed.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> While many here seem to think that all makes and brands of 6BX7 sound the same, in my experience, 6 Sylvania sound quite different than 6 GE or 6 RCA or what have you. For example, compared to other makes, I find Sylvanias to be very lively with sparkly highs. So when you say "there is something lacking in midrange and in the highs", it would be useful to know precisely which 6BX7 you have installed.


Do you prefer sylvania ? Or other brand?


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Ross do it and no scaling back. Your only choice would be whether it's tube or hexfred rectifier. Frankly I am very happy with hexfred even though I haven't heard tube rectifiers. I have just started tube rolling so I cannot give you a firm answer on my fav tube combo but for a muscular, dynamic, hard hitting sound, it's hard to go past C3Gs with 6 x 6BX7 or C3Gs with quad 5998.
> 
> I don't know what it's like not having Gold Point attenuator but that will save you $300. The boost switch has a marginal gain increase but in this amp a marginal increase is significant.
> 
> ...



Hahahahaha...with the sheer amount of tube combinations to be had, it kinda freaks me out..i shall continue lurking first and reading more impressions of yours once you've had more time acclimatising to the amp before deciding my next move


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Do you prefer sylvania ? Or other brand?



It depends on the driver and rectifier. Since the Sylvanias are pretty lively and sparkly, rolling in a darker rectifier and driver, such as the Cossor 53KU and a pair of RCA 76 triodes sounds great to my ears. And since the GE are a bit more neutral, rolling in a GEC U18/20 with a Sylvania 6SN7W sounds great. Again, it is all about synergy and matching.


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> While many here seem to think that all makes and brands of 6BX7 sound the same, in my experience, 6 Sylvania sound quite different than 6 GE or 6 RCA or what have you. For example, compared to other makes, I find Sylvanias to be very lively with sparkly highs. So when you say "there is something lacking in midrange and in the highs", it would be useful to know precisely which 6BX7 you have installed.


I have rolled RCA, IEC and Sylvanias. The Sylvanias are my least favourite due to sparkly or what I called uncontrolled high. They are my least used 6BX7.


----------



## gibosi (Dec 14, 2017)

IEC did not manufacture 6BX7 or any other tube. They were a marketing company only. Do you know which company manufactured them?

But yes, I also think the Sylvania 6BX7 are not a good combination with Siemens 3Cg. The highs are a bit much. A darker rectifier helps, but still, prefer GE to Sylvania with the 3Cg.


----------



## lukeap69

The box is labelled IEC Mullard. I think we have discussed this in the past https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6bl7-tube-users.806043/page-29#post-13242827


----------



## Oskari

Yep.


lukeap69 said:


>


*To*kyo *Shiba*ura Denki Kabushiki Kaisha.


----------



## lukeap69

Oskari said:


> Yep.
> 
> *To*kyo *Shiba*ura Denki Kabushiki Kaisha.


Is that the short name of Toshiba?


----------



## Oskari

lukeap69 said:


> Is that the short name of Toshiba?


Yes, that was their "compact" official name until 1978.


----------



## MIKELAP

rnros said:


> Also be aware that some of the C3g adapters being sold are too tight for the C3g. Purchased one of these and was not able to insert the C3g without exerting excessive force.
> There was some discussion on another thread about this with the result being that some C3gs were damaged. Might be a good idea to confirm with the seller that the C3g sockets used are OK.


I guess it was in the Littledot thread because i and a few other guys had cracked a tube. you just cant wiggle that tube when removing it you just pull straight out. I just left them in the adapters .Eventually i found these loctal sockets way better .


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> The box is labelled IEC Mullard. I think we have discussed this in the past https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6bl7-tube-users.806043/page-29#post-13242827



So it appears that you have Toshiba, RCA and Sylvania 6BX7. That leaves Fivre, Tung-Sol and GE to try.


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> So it appears that you have Toshiba, RCA and Sylvania 6BX7. That leaves Fivre, Tung-Sol and GE to try.


Don't tempt me. I will leave the rest of the 6BX7 brands for @UntilThen to test.


----------



## rnros

MIKELAP said:


> I guess it was in the Littledot thread because i and a few other guys had cracked a tube. you just cant wiggle that tube when removing it you just pull straight out. I just left them in the adapters .Eventually i found these loctal sockets way better .



I think it was that thread. Anyway, after I saw how easily the C3g slips in and out of the sockets on the GOTL, I was very happy that I didn't try to force the tube into that adapter. Especially after I heard them and realized how good they were. : ) Would have been very upset to have damaged one of these from my matched pair. Worth far more than the adapter.


----------



## Hansotek

The 6922>6SN7 and 6080>6BL7 adaptors arrived!!


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> Don't tempt me. I will leave the rest of the 6BX7 brands for @UntilThen to test.



While Tung-Sol and Fivre are a bit rare and hard to find, GE are plentiful, cheap and sound very good, so I encourage you to grab six of them.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> While Tung-Sol and Fivre are a bit rare and hard to find, GE are plentiful, cheap and sound very good, so I encourage you to grab six of them.


While I have some 25 6BL7, I only have 6 6BX7. Rebranding was very common, and I have BX GE tubes that say RCA and Westinghouse, so looking for these GE tubes might be even less money than GE branded.
I also have Tung Sol labeled 6BL7 tubes with the telltale sand blasted dots on them, which means that they were made by GE. 
I preferred the BL tubes when I used them in my amps, but it may have to do with the gain - don't have a Glenn....yet.


----------



## 2359glenn

MIKELAP said:


> I guess it was in the Littledot thread because i and a few other guys had cracked a tube. you just cant wiggle that tube when removing it you just pull straight out. I just left them in the adapters .Eventually i found these loctal sockets way better .



These are Russian sockets much better then the Chinese ones.
These are what I use in my amps.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Hahahahaha...with the sheer amount of tube combinations to be had, it kinda freaks me out..i shall continue lurking first and reading more impressions of yours once you've had more time acclimatising to the amp before deciding my next move



I've rolled about 5 different combinations so far. They have been very very impressive. They ought to be because I rolled in some of my best tubes. I broke my own cardinal rule of starting with farmers tubes first. I had to hear how this amp respond to some of the best tubes. It didn't disappoint. Every day now since Tuesday, the music becomes more and more involving.

However one combination stood out. It's the Telefunken C3Gs and 2 x Fivre 6BX7gt / 4 x Los Gatos 6BX7gt. The acoustical space has been enlarged, power have been applied in a controlled manner and effortlessly. The most startling experience is hearing details in those songs that I'm familiar with. It's a down right dead knock up moment as I discovered how exciting those songs have become.

In the midst of this, I am consciously aware of how different C3Gs and 6BL7 are sounding now compared to my experience of those tubes on Elise. I remember C3G being a bit edgy in the high frequencies in Elise. It's details galore but it get a bit too much after a while. Hence I don't use it that much in Elise. However here in GOTL, C3Gs are firing with all cylinders in a controlled and disciplined manner. It's dial to perfection now. Likewise the 6BX7. Granted I only use 4 x  GE 6BL7gta in Elise. It was a bit 2D and deadpan then but with a gutsy bass. However those six 6BX7gt in GOTL now are like six super spark plugs in a Phantom Lamborghini. See photo below of the Lambo !!!

You can lurk a bit longer but after a month of my impressions of this amp, you will find the queue and waiting times for this amp stretching around the block.  .... and you can't buy my one and only Ulysses.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> While Tung-Sol and Fivre are a bit rare and hard to find, GE are plentiful, cheap and sound very good, so I encourage you to grab six of them.



Omg Ken, prices for 6BX7 / 6BL7 tubes are going to skyrocket now. Please keep it low key. Do what attmci did. Insist that the WE421A tubes are better.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> While I have some 25 6BL7, I only have 6 6BX7.



Mordy !!! What are you waiting for. Glenn Super 9 OTL amp is perfect for those tubes. I haven't touch my speaker system for 3 days !!!


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 14, 2017)

gibosi said:


> And since the GE are a bit more neutral, rolling in a GEC U18/20 with a Sylvania 6SN7W sounds great.



Huh you have to lure me to try out the Sylvania 6SN7W. So I swap the C3Gs for this brand new tube from Langrex.

This is my expression.



...and this is the culprit


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Mordy !!! What are you waiting for. Glenn Super 9 OTL amp is perfect for those tubes. I haven't touch my speaker system for 3 days !!!


Hi UT,
I am thinking about it, but I need to know more about the amp and the various options and their price/performance ratios to be able to make an informed decision. I am awaiting clarification on some items from Glenn.
Another question: What is the purpose of the single socket in the front of the amp? Is it meant to use for a dual triode in two channel mode?
I remember that when the Elise was in the planning stages, Feliks decided to use two 6SN7 type tubes as drivers, even though one would suffice. Something about improved sound with two tubes working in parallel(?).

When are you going to test out the 3A Russian 6C33C horned beasts?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> I am thinking about it, but I need to know more about the amp and the various options and their price/performance ratios to be able to make an informed decision. I am awaiting clarification on some items from Glenn.
> Another question: What is the purpose of the single socket in the front of the amp? Is it meant to use for a dual triode in two channel mode?
> I remember that when the Elise was in the planning stages, Feliks decided to use two 6SN7 type tubes as drivers, even though one would suffice. Something about improved sound with two tubes working in parallel(?).



You are heading in the right direction, talking to Glenn. I've never been so swooned by a tube amp before.

The single socket in front of the amp is for one 6sn7 / 12sn7 / 25sn7 or their equivalent. I find in the space of 3 days that a single driver tube sounds as gorgeous as 2 in Euforia. You don't need 2. One in GOTL is sounding heavenly and the beauty of it is, you only need to buy JUST ONE brand new Sylvania 6SN7W from Langrex. Imagine buying 2. That would cost 2 kidneys.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> When are you going to test out the 3A Russian 6C33C horned beasts?



Haha I don't think we can use these tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> It depends on the driver and rectifier. Since the Sylvanias are pretty lively and sparkly, rolling in a darker rectifier and driver, such as the Cossor 53KU and a pair of RCA 76 triodes sounds great to my ears. And since the GE are a bit more neutral, rolling in a GEC U18/20 with a Sylvania 6SN7W sounds great. Again, it is all about synergy and matching.



Ditto. You can get too much of a good thing.

I really don't care for the GEC 6AS7G and the GEC  B36 driver together...for my ears...the driver is to bright.

The thing is, it could sound very good to someone else so it is pretty much subjective.

Lots of variables, everybody's chain is different , from source to headphones to genres of music.

I agree with you, it is all about what synergy works for you.

I find most sylvania tubes have a sparkly and brighter treble


----------



## attmci (Dec 14, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Omg Ken, prices for 6BX7 / 6BL7 tubes are going to skyrocket now. Please keep it low key. Do what attmci did. Insist that the WE421A tubes are better.


I hear you, Matt.

BTW, I have tons of 6bl7/6bx7. LOL


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I thought the GEC tubes were very good but I needed to hear C3G - 6BX7 again. So in they go again. While I agree with you Joe and Arnold that the beauty of this amp is the many tones we can custom it with but this C3G - 6BX7 is it. Wow just wow. With HD800, this is high fidelity. This has shot to top of the class. You need to listen to C3Gs with 6 x 6BX7. This is where the magic is.
> 
> A caution though. When I had seated all the tubes, I detected a constant hum on the right channel that wasn't there the first time I heard this combination. I could tell it's from the right C3G. I tap it lightly with my finger and hey presto, the hum disappeared. So make sure you seat it correctly and leave it alone.



I have a couple EL3N tubes that need a flick of my finger to the top of the tube every once in awhile..then they settle down.


----------



## Hansotek

Wow, so a couple quick thoughts: 

The quad of 6BL7s with the Mullard ECC31 driver sounds really big and open. Bass is big and full on the Auteur with great slam. Seems like there is more extension now. Tubes synergize very well with the headphone's excellent depth layering. It's almost like there are two macro layers to the stage with dozens of micro layers in between: chorus harmonies or orchestration will kick in and I'm like HOLY $&%# @?%#!!!!! The stage just explodes wide open with a larger macro stage. You can tell these Sylvanias have little to no hours on them, as they have a little bit of that "new out of the box" strain that usually diminishes within a few dozen hours of burn. The 6BL7s were very loud and buzzy out of the box, but once the amp warmed up they quieted down significantly. The noise floor isn't pitch black, but it's barely audible at this point. The GEC6080s are more euphonic and (I think) more transparent at this point (we'll see how these sound in 100-150 hours), but I gotta say the 6BL7s are WAY more fun, and less than a cost of a single GEC 6080, I'd totally grab the quad 6BL7s if I had to buy one from scratch.

The 6922/6DJ8/ECC88 > 6SN7 adaptor is a fun little toy for $12-$15 or whatever it was. I have some pretty good tubes of that type, as I've owned the Liquid Crimson, Lyr, Project Solstice and the Aune T1 at various times... so I still have like 8 or 10 6922s sitting around. I only tried a couple with various results. I have a Russian 6N6P that didn't have that big of a stage, but the midrange was super euphonic with vocals to die for. I also tried a very high-quality Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 that seemed to do everything very well... the Mullard ECC31 still rules the roost in the driver department too. 

Using a killer Philips Miniwatt GZ34 rectifier the whole time with Hugo 2 as the source. Both are really nice and transparent and let the other tubes do their thing. Never hurts to have a good control group!


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> I find most sylvania tubes have a sparkly and brighter treble



Good observation Joe. That explains why I didn't quite like the 7236 when all I had were Sylvania's. Now that I have tried the TS 7236, my opinion of 7236 changed and they are still on my Darna now (TS).


----------



## xenithon (Dec 15, 2017)

Hi all. Where does one get info about ordering a Glenn OTL amp? Is there a website or product page, or via a PM to @2359glenn here?


----------



## lukeap69

xenithon said:


> Hi all. Where does one get info about ordering a Glenn OTL amp? Is there a website or product page, or via a PM to @2359glenn here?


Yes, PM Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

xenithon said:


> Hi all. Where does one get info about ordering a Glenn OTL amp? Is there a website or product page, or via a PM to @2359glenn here?



PM me and we will go over options and price.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> Using a killer Philips Miniwatt GZ34 rectifier the whole time with Hugo 2 as the source. Both are really nice and transparent and let the other tubes do their thing. Never hurts to have a good control group!



Welcome to a new tube rolling world of discovery and congrats on the nice partnering gear. GOTL deserves no less.


----------



## UntilThen

It's a sad day when I realised that my single $230 Sylvania 6SN7W is no match for the pair of $139 Telefunken C3G/s. 

I gave the clear nod to C3G/s in areas of resolution, control, dynamics, bass and the delivery of the music. Comparisons were made with 6 x 6BX7gt as power tubes. This combination of C3G/s and 6 x 6BX7gt is very good. I like it.

I am doing away with crunch words. I don't say 'I really like it' or 'I really really like it'. I will just simply say 'I like it'.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> It's a sad day when I realised that my single $230 Sylvania 6SN7W is no match for the pair of $139 Telefunken C3G/s.
> 
> I gave the clear nod to C3G/s in areas of resolution, control, dynamics, bass and the delivery of the music. Comparisons were made with 6 x 6BX7gt as power tubes. This combination of C3G/s and 6 x 6BX7gt is very good. I like it.
> 
> I am doing away with crunch words. I don't say 'I really like it' or 'I really really like it'. I will just simply say 'I like it'.



Your sad day is a day of glee for me. 
Since I cannot roll 6SN7 as drivers on my Darna, I am delighted to hear that the C3g's are better (my words.)


----------



## xenithon

2359glenn said:


> PM me and we will go over options and price.



Thanks @2359glenn - PM sent.


----------



## UntilThen

The alcohol has evaporated from my head from last night Christmas function. Now I'm listening to beautiful music from this very combination. @xenithon welcome aboard. You must consider this configuration because the music is now exquisite and your headphones are perfect for it.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> It's a sad day when I realised that my single $230 Sylvania 6SN7W is no match for the pair of $139 Telefunken C3G/s.
> 
> I gave the clear nod to C3G/s in areas of resolution, control, dynamics, bass and the delivery of the music. Comparisons were made with 6 x 6BX7gt as power tubes. This combination of C3G/s and 6 x 6BX7gt is very good. I like it.
> 
> I am doing away with crunch words. I don't say 'I really like it' or 'I really really like it'. I will just simply say 'I like it'.



Ummm.... Most likely, Siemens C3g/s rebranded and sold by Telefunken.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Ummm.... Most likely, Siemens C3g/s rebranded and sold by Telefunken.



That's another sad day for me because my Siemens C3G is only $117 a pair. I must roll in the Siemens next but if there's any difference, it could be because the Telefunken is the 'S' version whereas the Siemens is only the plain Jane variety.


----------



## Rossliew

We need to see more love for the EL3N and...the 300B !


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> That's another sad day for me because my Siemens C3G is only $117 a pair. I must roll in the Siemens next but if there's any difference, it could be because the Telefunken is the 'S' version whereas the Siemens is only the plain Jane variety.



I thought the S is slightly more expensive than the non-S brothers. Are they any different?


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> That's another sad day for me because my Siemens C3G is only $117 a pair. I must roll in the Siemens next but if there's any difference, it could be because the Telefunken is the 'S' version whereas the Siemens is only the plain Jane variety.



I was never able to hear any difference between the "S" and plain Jane versions... but then my ears are old and worn out... 

But I am able to hear the difference between the older flat-black embossed Siemens and the newer shiny-black silkscreened versions though...


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> I thought the S is slightly more expensive than the non-S brothers. Are they any different?



After a couple of beers I might be able to tell you if they are any different. 

Alright in the next hour or so I'll test it with my now sober head. At 3am in the morning where there is not a single soul awake. Even the birds are sleeping. So in the still of the night I shall listen to the sound of silence.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> We need to see more love for the EL3N and...the 300B !



I would love to have those 3 amps together and have a good listen. So how about you getting those 2 and we meet somewhere.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow the Siemens C3G sounds as good as the Telefunken C3G/s. I am not sure whether to be happy or sad since they are both mine.

Here's a picture of the Siemens C3G in the driver's seat. All preliminary testing are done with HD800, which sounds incredible now.


----------



## Oskari

lukeap69 said:


> I thought the S is slightly more expensive than the non-S brothers. Are they any different?


https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_c3gs.html:

"Es handelt sich um selektierte C3g Röhren, die bei der Endkontrolle eine Steilheit von ≥ 105% vom Normwert (14 mA/V) aufwiesen. Nur diese bekamen den Zusatz /s aufgestempelt."

"In case the final factory-tests of a C3g revealed a transconductance equal or higher than 105% of the nominal value (14000 µmhos), these tubes were marked with the suffix /s."


----------



## gibosi

And so the question is, Does this higher transconductance result in a different sound? And to my ears, the answer is "No".


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> "In case the final factory-tests of a C3g revealed a transconductance equal or higher than 105% of the nominal value (14000 µmhos), these tubes were marked with the suffix /s."



There you go. Technically there is a difference but my ears couldn't discern it. Maybe I need a couple of beers.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> And so the question is, Does this higher transconductance result in a different sound? And to my ears, the answer is "No".


But your transoceanic cable might provide somewhat better/longer service.


----------



## gibosi

Ah, but with the recent talk about cutting transoceanic cables, maybe I should stick with wireless?


----------



## Oskari

Satellite delay can be annoying…


----------



## gibosi

Yeah... cut cables... satellite delay... both have their drawbacks....  And how did we get here from transconductance anyway? lol


----------



## Hansotek

Holy crap. Quad Sylvania 6BL7s & Mullard ECC31 on the GOTL with Atticus sounds awesome! Probably the most transparent and open I've heard the Atticus sound. Gave it just that extra little nudge of airiness it needed. This is going to be a go-to combo for sure.

@whirlwind aren't you supposed to be getting your Atty today? I think a remember you mentioning that the other day.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Wow the Siemens C3G sounds as good as the Telefunken C3G/s. I am not sure whether to be happy or sad since they are both mine.
> 
> Here's a picture of the Siemens C3G in the driver's seat. All preliminary testing are done with HD800, which sounds incredible now.



Well, if you're looking to unload a pair, I've got your back.


----------



## UntilThen

This test is to determine if I can detect any differences between 4 x 6BX7 and 6 x 6BX7. When I swap to 4 x 6BX7, I thought it sounded very similar but I was also aware that the band became more focused and closer together. To confirm that, I put back 6 x 6BX7 again and I could detect the differences indeed. With six, the composition is more spread out and instruments separation are more clearly discernible. Notes are also more weighty and have impact. Subtle? Yes but it's the subtlety that makes the six special. If I didn't hear the six, I would have been happy with quad 6BX7 in this setup.

It's really Glenn's tuning of this amp with these tubes. There's a 'rightness' to it.

A pic of GOTL with 4 x Los Gatos 6BX7gt.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> Well, if you're looking to unload a pair, I've got your back.



My one regret is getting rid of my new pair of Valvo C3G/s. It has gone to Ross and I'm trying to bribe him to send it back.  So I'm not unloading any caviar. Instead I might be getting another pair of Lorenz C3G. Even if they sound the same, I am starting a collection of C3Gs. They might be worth more than bitcoins in a few years time. 

Glad you like Atticus with ECC31 and quad 6BL7. I'm waiting for my ECC31 adapter.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> My one regret is getting rid of my new pair of Valvo C3G/s. It has gone to Ross and I'm trying to bribe him to send it back.  So I'm not unloading any caviar. Instead I might be getting another pair of Lorenz C3G. Even if they sound the same, I am starting a collection of C3Gs. They might be worth more than bitcoins in a few years time.
> 
> Glad you like Atticus with ECC31 and quad 6BL7. I'm waiting for my ECC31 adapter.



Philips never manufactured the C3g, so it is very likely that your Valvo are also rebranded Siemens. Now the older Lorenz, with flat-black embossed cans, were actually manufactured by Lorenz and sound significantly different than the Siemens.

But if you see Lorenz with silkscreened shiny black cans, they too are Siemens.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> This test is to determine if I can detect any differences between 4 x 6BX7 and 6 x 6BX7. When I swap to 4 x 6BX7, I thought it sounded very similar but I was also aware that the band became more focused and closer together. To confirm that, I put back 6 x 6BX7 again and I could detect the differences indeed. With six, the composition is more spread out and instruments separation are more clearly discernible. Notes are also more weighty and have impact. Subtle? Yes but it's the subtlety that makes the six special. If I didn't hear the six, I would have been happy with quad 6BX7 in this setup.
> 
> It's really Glenn's tuning of this amp with these tubes. There's a 'rightness' to it.
> 
> A pic of GOTL with 4 x Los Gatos 6BX7gt.



It is really hard to know how much of the differences you hear are due to 4 versus 6 tubes and how much is due to mixing 4 of one make and 2 of another. When you have 6 that are all the same, then a comparison of 4 versus 6 will be more definitive.


----------



## UntilThen

I think all the flat-black embossed cans are extinct now. So like any beer can collector, I'll be content with black shiny ones. Different colour boxes makes them interesting !


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> This test is to determine if I can detect any differences between 4 x 6BX7 and 6 x 6BX7. When I swap to 4 x 6BX7, I thought it sounded very similar but I was also aware that the band became more focused and closer together. To confirm that, I put back 6 x 6BX7 again and I could detect the differences indeed. With six, the composition is more spread out and instruments separation are more clearly discernible. Notes are also more weighty and have impact. Subtle? Yes but it's the subtlety that makes the six special. If I didn't hear the six, I would have been happy with quad 6BX7 in this setup.
> 
> It's really Glenn's tuning of this amp with these tubes. There's a 'rightness' to it.
> 
> A pic of GOTL with 4 x Los Gatos 6BX7gt.


Re C3g,

The Siemens and Telefunken should sound the same since I am under the impression that they were both made by Siemens. Could be that the Lorenz version is different.


UntilThen said:


> I think all the flat-black embossed cans are extinct now. So like any beer can collector, I'll be content with black shiny ones. Different colour boxes makes them interesting !
> Well, if you can't find C3g tubes any more at reasonable prices, you can always get the 20V version - the C3m. Just ask Glenn for another switch....
> And with the C3m you could get a Philips version - the indomitable TS49 that I just discovered!


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> It is really hard to know how much of the differences you hear are due to 4 versus 6 tubes and how much is due to mixing 4 of one make and 2 of another. When you have 6 that are all the same, then a comparison of 4 versus 6 will be more definitive.



The mixture of tubes in this amp is very interesting. It could be that I've stumbled on a nice combination of Fivre and Los Gatos 6BX7 by chance. Similarly when I combine Mullard and Bendix 6080, I'm getting a different brew. Next I'll be trying 2 x 5998 and 2 x 7236 together. Now what will that produce. 

Ah I have 6 x GE 6BX7gt. That will another's day rolling. The sun will be up soon and this owl needs to sleep.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> After a couple of beers I might be able to tell you if they are any different.
> 
> Alright in the next hour or so I'll test it with my now sober head. At 3am in the morning where there is not a single soul awake. Even the birds are sleeping. So in the still of the night I shall listen to the sound of silence.



I hope you roll the tubes and not the beer bottles.


----------



## UntilThen

It's the multi conglomerate General Electric's turn now to show what it can do. Can't let the La Gatos and Fivre steal the show. These GE 6BX7gt sure light up brightly. That is the first noticeable difference. Secondly I thought it sounded more vibrant but I can't really be sure because both set of tubes can tango and salsa. 

I am convinced now that if you have C3Gs and 6BX7s in this amp, you have ascended to cloud 9. Now to find out where attmci lives so I can raid his chest of 6BX7s.


----------



## UntilThen

These are the boxes for the GE tubes. On it are the words 'Progress is our most important product'. On the La Gatos box, it says 'Precision engineered' and on the Fivre boxes it reads 'Guaranted against electrical and mechanical defects'. They have some fine script writers in those days.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> @whirlwind aren't you supposed to be getting your Atty today? I think a remember you mentioning that the other day.



You won't hear from ww for a few days. He's admiring his cocobolo Atticus now. It is savagely beautiful.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> These are the boxes for the GE tubes. On it are the words 'Progress is our most important product'. On the La Gatos box, it says 'Precision engineered' and on the Fivre boxes it reads 'Guaranted against electrical and mechanical defects'. They have some fine script writers in those days.



My gosh UT, don't you ever sleep?  I think it's time for that wife of yours to put that heavy duty cast iron frying pan to use with total impunity (KONK!)


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> You won't hear from ww for a few days. He's admiring his cocobolo Atticus now. It is savagely beautiful.



Yes, I'm very interested in his review of the Atticus and GEL3N... About two hours into my warmup of Scarlett for my listening tonight.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> My gosh UT, don't you ever sleep?  I think it's time for that wife of yours to put that heavy duty cast iron frying pan to use with total impunity (KONK!)



That reminds me I have to make sure that the gas bottle is replenished for next week's bbq for all our close friends. Forget that and my wife will surely be not pleased but otherwise she is very loving and just let me enjoy my music.

It's hard to sleep when the music's this good. This OTL amp is sounding real good. It's audio nirvana now no doubt about it. How's Scarlett going?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It's the multi conglomerate General Electric's turn now to show what it can do. Can't let the La Gatos and Fivre steal the show. These GE 6BX7gt sure light up brightly. That is the first noticeable difference. Secondly I thought it sounded more vibrant but I can't really be sure because both set of tubes can tango and salsa.
> 
> I am convinced now that if you have C3Gs and 6BX7s in this amp, you have ascended to cloud 9. Now to find out where attmci lives so I can raid his chest of 6BX7s.



Hay Matt
Here are some Los Gatos 6BX7 so you can get a matched sextet .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-6BX7GT-...390115?hash=item5d741372a3:g:u7YAAOSwuMZZFzPW


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> That reminds me I have to make sure that the gas bottle is replenished for next week's bbq for all our close friends. Forget that and my wife will surely be not pleased but otherwise she is very loving and just let me enjoy my music.
> 
> It's hard to sleep when the music's this good. This OTL amp is sounding real good. It's audio nirvana now no doubt about it. How's Scarlett going?



She's doing well thank you!  She loves to be warmed up and turned on for a while then she calms down with the thermal noise and really starts to sing.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Hay Matt
> Here are some Los Gatos 6BX7 so you can get a matched sextet .
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-6BX7GT-...390115?hash=item5d741372a3:g:u7YAAOSwuMZZFzPW



Tempting but I don't think matching same brand is necessary. The amp is singing regardless with any brand thrown in. The 1954 pair is tempting too. 
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Matched...d=401379390115&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Next I want to test out the 6BL7s. My ears shall be the judge. I shall not be prejudiced.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Hay Matt
> Here are some Los Gatos 6BX7 so you can get a matched sextet .
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-6BX7GT-...390115?hash=item5d741372a3:g:u7YAAOSwuMZZFzPW



These are re-badged Sylvania. His are re-badged Tung-Sol.



UntilThen said:


> Tempting but I don't think matching same brand is necessary. The amp is singing regardless with any brand thrown in. The 1954 pair is tempting too.
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Matched-PAIR-CBS-6BX7GT-Tubes-GE-USA-NOS-NIB-Black-Plates-Dual-Triode-D-Getter/202137075298?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=49574&meid=9bd1d8de13bd4df2ba684d285bb46741&pid=100005&rk=5&rkt=6&sd=401379390115&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
> 
> Next I want to test out the 6BL7s. My ears shall be the judge. I shall not be prejudiced.



And these are GE.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> These are re-badged Sylvania. His are re-badged Tung-Sol.



Oh yeah on close examination, the tubes getters are different.


----------



## UntilThen

60 mins into the Sylvania 6BL7gta (2) and Sylvania 6BL7gt (4). 2 were rebranded Westinghouse and Tung Sol but there's no mistaking they are similar tubes from the shape of the getters. More impactful, more slam and certainly more gain than their 6BX7 cousins. Tonally very similar. Stirring and surreal performance. I repeat, this is the best I've heard yet in a field of strong contenders, namely Violectric v281, Ragnarok, Simeaudio Moon 430HAD, Woo Audio WA22, WA5, Euforia, La Figaro 339. It's musically involving with HD800 and the ZMF headphones.

On Atticus, I only need 3 clicks as noted by Arnold. 6BL7 has a lot more gain but it sounds splendid still.


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 16, 2017)

Hansotek said:


> Holy crap. Quad Sylvania 6BL7s & Mullard ECC31 on the GOTL with Atticus sounds awesome! Probably the most transparent and open I've heard the Atticus sound. Gave it just that extra little nudge of airiness it needed. This is going to be a go-to combo for sure.
> 
> @whirlwind aren't you supposed to be getting your Atty today? I think a remember you mentioning that the other day.




Yes sir I did, and starting listening just a short while ago.

I really owe it to Zach too, he came through with a beautiful quartersawn/rift sawn
 set of cocobolo Atticus.
When I read that he said he had been stashing some cocobolo wood for some time as it was getting harder to get, I wanted one!

Sound impressions later as they need some burn in to tighten up.

Here is some drop dead gorgeous eye-candy though.


----------



## attmci (Dec 16, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> Hay Matt
> Here are some Los Gatos 6BX7 so you can get a matched sextet .
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-6BX7GT-...390115?hash=item5d741372a3:g:u7YAAOSwuMZZFzPW


Those are very expensive........($49.99 for one 6BX7GT made in 1971) 

I don't like people post photo of three tubes, and list the price for one tube.


----------



## attmci (Dec 16, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Oh yeah on close examination, the tubes getters are different.


No. You don't want to distinguish the tubes based on getters. 

Get up and enjoy your new toy!


----------



## gibosi

Again, I know that most here have no interest in 4-volt rectifiers and single triodes, but since I have managed to finally obtain a fairly quiet pair of blue Arcturus 127, I felt the need to share.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Again, I know that most here have no interest in 4-volt rectifiers and single triodes, but since I have managed to finally obtain a fairly quiet pair of blue Arcturus 127, I felt the need to share.



Is that u18/20?

I have been trying to get one of that u18 goodness


----------



## Hansotek

whirlwind said:


> Yes sir I did, and starting listening just a short while ago.
> 
> I really owe it to Zach too, he came through with a beautiful quartersawn set of cocobolo Atticus.
> When I read that he said he had been stashing some cocobolo wood for some time as it was getting harder to get, I wanted one!
> ...



Damn, those are gorgeous! Once everything settles in, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Atticus on the GOTL vs. the GEL3N. 

I remember mine started sounding good around 50 or 60 hours and settled into their final state at about 150.


----------



## UntilThen

Some really beautiful pictures pop up while I was having an afternoon nap. 

Joe, that is an absolutely beautiful Atticus. Glad you got the new metal hinge. That looks like a new pad to me. Are they Eikon pads?

Ken, those are beautiful blue tubes.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Is that u18/20?
> 
> I have been trying to get one of that u18 goodness



Yes, that is a U18/20. With some driver/output tube combinations, I find it a bit too bright, but in this case, with Tung-Sol 6BX7 and Arcturus 127, it sounds great.

And the U18 is actually a different tube. It came before the U18/20 which was designed to replace both the older U18 and U20. The U18 heater draws 3.75A as opposed to 2.8A for the U18/20. And it can provide up to 250ma, so it is suitable for use in the GOTL.


----------



## whirlwind

Hansotek said:


> Damn, those are gorgeous! Once everything settles in, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Atticus on the GOTL vs. the GEL3N.
> 
> I remember mine started sounding good around 50 or 60 hours and settled into their final state at about 150.



I will post my thoughts after the headphone is fully burned in and after i have had a chance to listen to it with both amps.
The build quality of these headphones is impeccable, no doubt..very comfy and you just have to love Zach's house sound.
I listened to about 5 Blues albums last night...lovin the bass already and i know it will get much better.





\



UntilThen said:


> Some really beautiful pictures pop up while I was having an afternoon nap.
> 
> Joe, that is an absolutely beautiful Atticus. Glad you got the new metal hinge. That looks like a new pad to me. Are they Eikon pads?
> 
> Ken, those are beautiful blue tubes.



Thanks Matt....these are the Ori pads.


----------



## attmci (Dec 16, 2017)

whirlwind said:


> I will post my thoughts after the headphone is fully burned in and after i have had a chance to listen to it with both amps.
> The build quality of these headphones is impeccable, no doubt..very comfy and you just have to love Zach's house sound.
> I listened to about 5 Blues albums last night...lovin the bass already and i know it will get much better.



Thanks man. We want to learn what is good and also what's the limitation of the headphone. How it compares to its close competitors. No rush.

BTW, what's the weight of your new toy?


----------



## UntilThen

The weight for my cherry Eikon is 490 grams and my Padauk Atticus is 550 grams. The drivers have a lifetime warranty to the original owner.  I'll let Joe talk about how it sounds but I'll talk about the fit and comfort as I've Eikon, Atticus and LCD-2f. New out of the box, both Eikon and Atticus clamp are just right on the head but LCD-2f is tight and that have remain so until this day for me. I can't wear the LCD-2f for long as a result. I need to loosen the grip somehow. All 3 headphones are much heavier than HD800 but once you're use to it, you don't feel the weight. Eikon feels the most comfortable because of the pads. The best and softest headphone pads on my ears. The woods aged beautifully over time. Every single part of the headphone is replaceable.


----------



## gibosi

With all the attention to C3g here recently, realized I hadn't rolled them in ages.

GEC U18/20, Tung-Sol 6BX7 and a pair of flat-black embossed Lorenz (military boxes dated 1966). And yes, it sounds great. But then, almost everything sounds great in a GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 16, 2017)

Spend a good part of yesterday listening to music with my new tube amp. It's been 5 days now since I had it. Arrived on 12th Dec so I'll remember that day. I remembered the day I got Elise too. 27th Oct 2015. Somehow I never remembered when I got Euforia.

Glenn's OTL and the new C3G and 6BX7 tubes sounds comfortable right from the start. The only shift in tone that I detect from the few days of burn in is a more textured tone. Very slight. That or my ears are adjusting to the sound. I find the high frequencies very clear and very comfortable on the ears. This is especially so with with HD800 and Eikon. Atticus and LCD-2f have their high ends loped off a bit by comparison but the details are not lacking for a very enjoyable listen.

Mid range has a beautiful presence and tone. Yggdrasil and GOTL combine very well with the headphones to produce an amazingly beautiful symphony of details, clarity, punch and impact. The eventual tone is more dynamic than romantic but retains the beautiful tube ambience. This is where the GOTL is much better than Ragnarok to my ears. Rag has a hint of tube tone but that can't compare to a real capable headphone tube amp. These tubes helps and plays a big part. It's tighter and more focused than their 6AS7 counterpart but the texture is ever present. I like this tone. Bass has presence but is not overwhelming. It's hard hitting and has impact but never over done. Headstage and bass weight is better than La Figaro 339 and those that know LF339 sound will know that those characteristics are already exemplary on the Figaro.

GOTL with C3G and 6 x 6BX7 is a beautiful package in terms of sound. It's engaging and musically involving. I've temporary stop tube rolling because the tone seems so right to my ears now. I'm just listening to song after song like a man on fire.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> With all the attention to C3g here recently, realized I hadn't rolled them in ages.
> 
> GEC U18/20, Tung-Sol 6BX7 and a pair of flat-black embossed Lorenz (military boxes dated 1966). And yes, it sounds great. But then, almost everything sounds great in a GOTL.



I can relate to what you're hearing now and I agree that all the tubes I've rolled so far sounds great in GOTL. By the way I'm ever conscious of the blue power on button. I've never seen or use anything like it. It has a soft touch that works so smoothly.


----------



## whirlwind

attmci said:


> Thanks man. We want to learn what is good and also what's the limitation of the headphone. How it compares to its close competitors. No rush.
> 
> BTW, what's the weight of your new toy?



I am not sure how much the cocobolo Atticus weighs...according to some charts of the woods...the cocobolo is lighter than paduk wood
The new hardware is lighter in weight I am told...but I can not confirm this.

they is some weight to them, but comfort is not an issue







UntilThen said:


> The weight for my cherry Eikon is 490 grams and my Padauk Atticus is 550 grams. The drivers have a lifetime warranty to the original owner.  I'll let Joe talk about how it sounds but I'll talk about the fit and comfort as I've Eikon, Atticus and LCD-2f. New out of the box, both Eikon and Atticus clamp are just right on the head but LCD-2f is tight and that have remain so until this day for me. I can't wear the LCD-2f for long as a result. I need to loosen the grip somehow. All 3 headphones are much heavier than HD800 but once you're use to it, you don't feel the weight. Eikon feels the most comfortable because of the pads. The best and softest headphone pads on my ears. The woods aged beautifully over time. Every single part of the headphone is replaceable.



Love the lifetime warranty of the drivers for the original owner.


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 16, 2017)

attmci said:


> We want to learn what is good and also what's the limitation of the headphone.



There are no limitations. The only limitation is that you will spend too much time listening to music and forget to mow the lawn, clean the pool, walk the dog and feed the gold fish. 

Oh wait, we're talking about headphone here. I thought we are talking about Gotham.


----------



## UntilThen

Photos time.


----------



## gibosi (Dec 16, 2017)

As the GEC U18 is about 80 years old and somewhat rare, I haven't rolled it in a long time. It's quite a nice rectifier, with much the same sound signature as the GEC U18/20, but a bit more bass emphasis.

And a pair of Telefunken C3g. Or I should say, they might be real Telefunkens. While they have white silkscreened shiny-black cans, the tooling of the base is different than either the flat-black or shiny-black Siemens. And further, these carry Telefunken date codes, wr = Sept, 1966. What makes it even more of a mystery is that that these Telefunkens sound so very similar to the Siemens. My impression is the treble on the Telefunkens is ever so slightly elevated. This elevated level is especially noticeable on female vocals, for example, Pebaluna's lead vocalist, Lauren Coleman, on the track, "No I Cant" (Carney Life). With the Telefunkens the upper registers of her voice have a bit more presence. But again, this is very subtle, and it is the only difference I can discern with my old and worn-out ears.

Anyway, I could live with this combination for the rest of my days...


----------



## UntilThen

I too prefer 6BX7 over 6BL7. It's more relaxed compared to 6BL7 and that works better with my headphones in my humble ears opinion.

All 5 of my headphones are a perfect fit for GOTL. However the HD800 is the one that surprised me the most. I had thoughts of selling it and I'm glad I didn't. It was made for Ulysses and these tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

That is an old rectifier Ken!

I want to try an 80 Globe, Glenn sent me an adapter for it.

Also want to get a Mullard  GZ37 at some point  and i have heard that you can get a decent Brimar for a nice price.

Too many rectifiers, so little cash, lol


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I too prefer 6BX7 over 6BL7. It's more relaxed compared to 6BL7 and that works better with my headphones in my humble ears opinion.
> 
> All 5 of my headphones are a perfect fit for GOTL. However the HD800 is the one that surprised me the most. I had thoughts of selling it and I'm glad I didn't. It was made for Ulysses and these tubes.




I like the 6BX7 best too.

The HD800's sing like a bird with Glenns OTL


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Anyway, I could live with this combination for the rest of my days...



Me too !!!

You sure my Los Gatos are Tung Sol rebranded? I was going to give them Mexican names but now I think I will call them John, Paul, George and Ringo.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Too many rectifiers, so little cash, lol



That's why I chose hexfred. I'm on a budget here.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> That's why I chose hexfred. I'm on a budget here.




Good thinking...you can't be tempted with different rectifiers...you need not temptation


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> That is an old rectifier Ken!
> 
> I want to try an 80 Globe, Glenn sent me an adapter for it.
> 
> ...



Who knows maybe Santa will send you a 80 globe


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Me too !!!
> 
> You sure my Los Gatos are Tung Sol rebranded? I was going to give them Mexican names but now I think I will call them John, Paul, George and Ringo.



In the original listing, the pic wasn't all that good, but I am pretty sure it was a Tung-Sol. Also, they showed only one tube, so we couldn't be sure that they were all the same. Anyway, I have sent you a pm with more info.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Good thinking...you can't be tempted with different rectifiers...you need not temptation



In my experience, collecting rectifiers is much less expensive then collecting headphones and amplifiers, as it seems some here do. lol


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> That is an old rectifier Ken!
> 
> I want to try an 80 Globe, Glenn sent me an adapter for it.
> 
> ...



IMHO, a "real" Mullard GZ32 is considerably better than a Mullard GZ37. On the other hand, the Cossar 53KU, which some call a "Fat GZ37" is one of the best in my experience, but it typically comes at a high price. And yes, Brimar 5R4GY are a very good buy.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Who knows maybe Santa will send you a 80 globe



I believe in Santa Claus.

I used to give my wife I list of things that I would like to have for Christmas and she would give me a list of things that she would like to have.
We don't do this anymore...but after I gave her a rather large list one year, she told me that her name was Carol and not Santa Claus, LOL


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> In the original listing, the pic wasn't all that good, but I am pretty sure it was a Tung-Sol. Also, they showed only one tube, so we couldn't be sure that they were all the same. Anyway, I have sent you a pm with more info.



Well I check my tubes and they are as you described. So it's Mr Tung Sol masquerading as Los Gatos here. They do sound very nice with the 2 Fivres. My quick session with the GE 6BX7gt didn't reveal much differences but I need to forensically test it again later. I'll let the these tube tones burn in my mind first.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> In my experience, collecting rectifiers is much less expensive then collecting headphones and amplifiers, as it seems some here do. lol



Well, I certainly can not disagree with that  

Yeah, the Fat G37 cost some serious dollars.

I have the 3DG4 in right now..it is very hard to fault this tube in the GEL3N amp.

I have come to really like it and I can buy 5 NOS ones for like under $30 delivered


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> In my experience, collecting rectifiers is much less expensive then collecting headphones and amplifiers, as it seems some here do. lol



BUT collecting headphones and amps are more fun. Can't believe I have 5 headphones now. If I didn't sell the T1, it would be 6. Then I have to buy headphone stands too. After 2 Omega stands, I compromise and bought el cheapo Samdi stands. Santa has come and gone several times since March of this year. I'm sure he won't be back on Christmas Eve. He's had enough delivering my parcels.


----------



## UntilThen

My eyes glistened watching this. At this price there are 42 watchers !!! @Rossliew buy it for your 300b amp.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Western...d=372006447802&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> My eyes glistened watching this. At this price there are 42 watchers !!! @Rossliew buy it for your 300b amp.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Western-Electric-WE-300B-Two-Pairs-Quad-Vintage-NOS-Rare-Military-made-in-1988/182659994961?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=49574&meid=308b4749b45c4637bdb1293c8b9148c5&pid=100005&rk=4&rkt=6&mehot=lo&sd=372006447802&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


Very, very unlikely! Have had some WE tubes in the past and IMO they sound overrated..


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> BUT collecting headphones and amps are more fun. Can't believe I have 5 headphones now. If I didn't sell the T1, it would be 6. Then I have to buy headphone stands too. After 2 Omega stands, I compromise and bought el cheapo Samdi stands. Santa has come and gone several times since March of this year. I'm sure he won't be back on Christmas Eve. He's had enough delivering my parcels.



More fun? You have only 5 headphones and a few amps? I have over 50 rectifiers. Simply by swapping out one tube, I have a different amp. So 50 rectifiers equals 50 different amps. How do you know I am not having more fun?


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 16, 2017)

That's what I'm afraid of. Too much fun rolling tubes. As it is, I'm going a bit nuts here. With rectifiers in the equation, it might be the tip of the iceberg for me. 

It's the weekend so why not roll some combination. Here's what I've been curious about. Blending 5998 and 7236 tubes. I'm using Ken Rad 6sn7gt as driver. This is my brand new NOS driver. Never heard a Ken Rad 6sn7gt before. So here goes....

Ken Rad 6SN7gt + Cetron 7236 + Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

What daaaa !!!! This is my expression.


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 16, 2017)

Wow this combo is too good. Nothing's going to get done today. This might get the CotM award - Combo of the Month. I'm just discovering what this amp can do.

It's literally blending 7236 and 5998 tones together. Explosive.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> That's what I'm afraid of. Too much fun rolling tubes. As it is, I'm going a bit nuts here. With rectifiers in the equation, it might be the tip of the iceberg for me.
> 
> It's the weekend so why not roll some combination. Here's what I've been curious about. Blending 5998 and 7236 tubes. I'm using Ken Rad 6sn7gt as driver. This is my brand new NOS driver. Never heard a Ken Rad 6sn7gt before. So here goes....
> 
> Ken Rad 6SN7gt + Cetron 7236 + Tung Sol 5998.


If you put a GZ34/U52 instead of that Ken-Rad, you will turn your new toy into heaven. LOL


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> If you put a GZ34/U52 instead of that Ken-Rad, you will turn your new toy into heaven. LOL



You are a bad influence. I shall not listen to you. 

The 7236 / 5998 tubes are explosive. It's like a live rock concert.

I shall dial down the temperature next. Will run 7 x 6SN7s. I want to hear Beethoven Moonlight Sonata on this.


----------



## UntilThen

Now for the acid test of how well it will drive 7 x 6SN7s. For this I round up the magnificent 7, which as you know is a motley crew of mercenaries. 

The leader - Sylvania 6SN7W metal base - he's the bald head with the chrome top
1st pair - Sylvania 6SN7W black base - they are sharp and good with the knives
2nd pair - National Union 6SN7gt black glass - they are good with anything
3rd pair - RCA 6SN7gt VT231 Smoke Glass - these carry the heavy fire power - counting on them for bass duties.

Moonlight Sonata passed with flying colours. The sweet sweet tone of 6SN7s shines on this piano masterpiece. Just what it needs. Simply beautiful.

Next Private Investigations - Dire Straits. Need to hear Knopfler's guitar magic. This is really the way to hear his guitar works. Couldn't have been better !!! There's bass here to my utter surprise. Even Sultans of Swing is swinging !!!

Lastly Should It Matter - Sissel Kyrkjebo. This is the test for vocals and imaging. Sissel passed with flying colours. She'll be glad to know that.


----------



## lukeap69

Your Ulysses seems like many amps in one body. That is an extreme excellent value and very enjoyable amp. Do you still have time to talk to the missus?


----------



## UntilThen

It is a wonderful amp and I'm glad I have it. I didn't expect 7 x 6SN7s to sound so good on this amp. After an hour of play, the tone stabilise and flesh out. All my six tubes are burn in to some degree on prior amps except the driver. The amp is cool running on 7 x 6SN7s. 

Bass is lighter than 6 x 6BX7 but it's not really lacking. It has a very nice clear tone and good texture.


----------



## UntilThen

6Sn7s can really pound on Perfectamundo by Billy Gibbons and the BFG. On Billie Jeans, these tubes shows what it can do. The rhythmic beat and drums comes alive.

It's hard to tell which tube combination I like most now. They all sound really good.


----------



## UntilThen

Listening to Sam Cooke now. Bringing it home to me. Beautiful simply beautiful. It can't get better than this. The 6sn7s deserves another photo.


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> Listening to Sam Cooke now. Bringing it home to me. Beautiful simply beautiful. It can't get better than this. The 6sn7s deserves another photo.



UT, how about 6 foton 6SN7?
A cheap alternative to 6bx7


----------



## UntilThen

jekjek said:


> UT, how about 6 foton 6SN7?
> A cheap alternative to 6bx7



That will work for sure but I have only 2 Fotons. 

You could use 7 ordinary 6sn7gtb and it should still sound good. I'll take out the prima donnas in a minute and swap in the cheap tubes just to prove.


----------



## UntilThen

Cheap tubes are in and sounding good. If you know the characteristics of each 6sn7s, you can combine for a pleasing effect or create the tone that you desire. After a while, you will know that each 6sn7 type and brand have their own unique tone. Some are brighter. Others are warmer, lusher and more solid in bass.

Driver - Psvane 6SN7 uk edition - good bloom and bass
1st pair - Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome top - light tone
2nd pair - Fotons - mid heavy tone
3rd pair - RCA 6sn7gtb - middle of the road

The amp has been outstanding with all the tubes I've rolled thus far. Not a single one hum or has any noise but then I keep only the good tubes and I usually buy new NOS tubes. All these tubes used here I'd consider cheap but still good.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm using HD800 with all these listening test and bass is ample and has a good kick. Bare in mind though that if you like deep hard impact, you would have to go to the 6BX7. Bass there is in another league. Apart from that Seven 6sn7s sounds great.


----------



## UntilThen

I bet the GOTL with all 6sn7s is as cool as the GEL3N now.  Placing my palm on the Lundahl transformer and it feels cool.


----------



## UntilThen

This amp will sound good with cheap tubes but give it some love if you can. Performance grows with better tubes used and this amp deserves it. This weekend has been a special one for me. I have the luxury of listening to music uninterrupted apart from a dinner outing with my family yesterday. I'm in awe with what I'm hearing from this amp. I realise I have not power on my lounge stereo system for 5 days now.


----------



## UntilThen

Time to finish off for the night but not before my last thoughts for the weekend.. After some time with various combinations, I returned to C3G and 6BX7 and realised how special this combination is. Whilst all the other combinations are good, the C3G and 6BX7 just stood out for me. Now over to others to share their impressions.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> This amp will sound good with cheap tubes but give it some love if you can. Performance grows with better tubes used and this amp deserves it. This weekend has been a special one for me. I have the luxury of listening to music uninterrupted apart from a dinner outing with my family yesterday. I'm in awe with what I'm hearing from this amp. I realise I have not power on my lounge stereo system for 5 days now.



When I  built the first OTL I used the cheapest tubes Russian 6H13 and 1633 $4 and this sounded great.
I really never upgraded tubes eventually I tried the 13D1 but never changed the output tubes. Sounded great
with these low cost 6H13s.
It could only use the 25 volt SN7s  1633 & 13D1 but the 1940s 1633 sounded up there with the best SN7s for $4


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> When I  built the first OTL I used the cheapest tubes Russian 6H13 and 1633 $4 and this sounded great.
> I really never upgraded tubes eventually I tried the 13D1 but never changed the output tubes. Sounded great
> with these low cost 6H13s.
> It could only use the 25 volt SN7s  1633 & 13D1 but the 1940s 1633 sounded up there with the best SN7s for $4



Any difference between 6H13s and 6N5S Glenn?


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 17, 2017)

jekjek said:


> Any difference between 6H13s and 6N5S Glenn?



Not really sure I think they are pretty close.
Never tried the 6N5S


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> Not really sure I think they are pretty close.
> Never tried the 6N5S



Thanks Glenn, I might want to purchase a pair for the curiosity sake


----------



## TonyNewman

No more love for the 300B. 

Glenn - are you still getting orders for it?


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> No more love for the 300B.
> 
> Glenn - are you still getting orders for it?



Someday...  but for now I want to soak in the euphony of the OTL. Glenn's statement of work must be something. That's what Stavros told me anyway.


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 17, 2017)

One more experimental time exposure of the glowing GE 6BX7gt. Will need @Hansotek to do a professional job.


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 17, 2017)

TonyNewman said:


> No more love for the 300B.
> 
> Glenn - are you still getting orders for it?



Just got a order for one with speaker outputs.
HEXFRED rectifiers with a timer  I am using a Amperite delay relay looks like any other tube and has a filament.
Not as many people can afford it so my other amps sell better.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Just got a order for one with speaker outputs.



Now who is that lucky guy. I'd want one with headphone and speakers out too.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> One more experimental time exposure of the glowing GE 6BX7gt. Will need @Hansotek to do a professional job.



Ha! That shot looks great.


----------



## UntilThen

I must give credit to my assistant, the tripod.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> One more experimental time exposure of the glowing GE 6BX7gt. Will need @Hansotek to do a professional job.



Neat !!!!!!!!!


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> That is an old rectifier Ken!
> 
> I want to try an 80 Globe, Glenn sent me an adapter for it......



I would like to try an 80 Globe as well, but while it is suitable for use in the EL3N, unfortunately, it cannot provide enough current to run Glenn's OTL....

But it's not like I'm hurting for rectifiers... lol 

In fact, I have a bunch of German 4-V rectifiers -- Telefunken, Valvo, Loewe, RFT and others. However, they are uniformly brighter than any British, Dutch or American rectifiers I own, and up to now, I have rarely rolled them as they tend to be too bright. But it turns out that the Lorenz C3g, which are darker than the Siemens, are a match made in heaven for these German rectifiers. 

Here a mesh-plate Valvo AZ12


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> One more experimental time exposure of the glowing GE 6BX7gt. Will need @Hansotek to do a professional job.




Great pic!


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I would like to try an 80 Globe as well, but while it is suitable for use in the EL3N, unfortunately, it cannot provide enough current to run Glenn's OTL....
> 
> But it's not like I'm hurting for rectifiers... lol
> 
> ...




The german rectifiers will all probably be fine in the EL3N amp, as the EL3N tubes are not bright.
I would call them warm and dynamic.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn Super 9 OTL amp > ZMF Eikon ; Tubes = RCA 1633 and Cetron 6336b.
One of the many beautiful tones from this amp. I stop declaring the best tube combination now because there are too many.


----------



## UntilThen

6336 tubes sound better than Bendix 6080wb. Never expected this. When you consider their price difference, it's shocking. I really love 1633 and 6336 combination. HD800 sounds incredible now.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> I am thinking about it, but I need to know more about the amp and the various options and their price/performance ratios to be able to make an informed decision. I am awaiting clarification on some items from Glenn.
> Another question: What is the purpose of the single socket in the front of the amp? Is it meant to use for a dual triode in two channel mode?
> I remember that when the Elise was in the planning stages, Feliks decided to use two 6SN7 type tubes as drivers, even though one would suffice. Something about improved sound with two tubes working in parallel(?).
> ...


I am thinking of getting a made in Canada SET speaker amp(12wpc) that uses these tubes that are affortable. They get very hot 190C or 374F so excellent for winter months and hopefully should pair well with my very sensitive Klipsh KG5.5 speakers .


----------



## UntilThen

Some interesting reading on the 6336 tubes.

http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=165872


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 18, 2017)

One driver and a pair of power tubes is all it takes to set my HD650 free and soaring skywards. Volume at 12 noon. Boost switch not on.

Then I put Atticus on and I'm soaring instead.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Glenn Super 9 OTL amp > ZMF Eikon ; Tubes = RCA 1633 and Cetron 6336b.
> One of the many beautiful tones from this amp. I stop declaring the best tube combination now because there are too many.


 

These tubes will keep you warm and cozy on a cold winters night!


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> One driver and a pair of power tubes is all it takes to set my HD650 free and soaring skywards. Volume at 12 noon. Boost switch not on.
> 
> Then I put Atticus on and I'm soaring instead.



Looks like Atticus has soared to the top of your headphone heap


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Looks like Atticus has soared to the top of your headphone heap



No not really. My favourite headphones are now HD800 and Eikon.


----------



## UntilThen

Tonight I will hook up my favourite audio gear with the OTL amp.

My Rega RP8 with Apheta cartridge.


----------



## UntilThen

Didn't get on my turntable yet because Yggdrasil is doing some incredible magic with the OTL amp.

The Summer of 2017 will always be remembered as one wherein I hear some of the best tones I've ever come across. Moving on to a more 'conventional' tube combination, here I have Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with a pair of pristine Gec 6as7g. 

An incredible sounding combination but there have been so many incredible sounding combination, Glenn's OTL amp has exceeded my every expectations of it. It's the best sounding amp with HD800 and the rest of my headphones. My heartiest recommendation.


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 19, 2017)

Pictures are always more interesting, so here you get a close up of the magnificent fully lighted up Gec 6as7g.

I didn't regret buying the Sylvania 6sn7w after all. It's the best sounding 6sn7 I've ever heard. It would be interesting to see how it compares with the Tung Sol 6F8G when the adapter arrives.


----------



## Rossliew

Beautiful pics, UT! Keep it coming! You’re becoming a one man billboard for Glenn’s OTL amps


----------



## UntilThen

When I was looking to buy Glenn's OTL amp, I lamented that there were not many pictures of it on the internet. So now that I have it and like it, I'm going to make it the most photographed amp on the planet. Funny I thought I was a DJ but a billboard will do. It's a powerful medium.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Glenn Super 9 OTL amp > ZMF Eikon ; Tubes = RCA 1633 and Cetron 6336b.
> One of the many beautiful tones from this amp. I stop declaring the best tube combination now because there are too many.





UntilThen said:


> 6336 tubes sound better than Bendix 6080wb. Never expected this. When you consider their price difference, it's shocking. I really love 1633 and 6336 combination. HD800 sounds incredible now.



These are the same Cetron 6336Bs I use, the 'tall bottle' version from the '80s. Have a few other 6336A/B varieties, all short bottle versions, but IMHO none perform as well as these. Outstanding tube paired with any driver, but especially with the C3g. Settled down and improved a bit after (at least) 60 hrs, maybe even better at 100 hrs. 

They do need more warm up time (massive tube!),  about 5 minutes to go through the heating/expansion sound effects, maybe 10 minutes for perfect quiet. But even during warm-up, the noise is not really objectionable or distracting for music playback.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Didn't get on my turntable yet because Yggdrasil is doing some incredible magic with the OTL amp.
> 
> The Summer of 2017 will always be remembered as one wherein I hear some of the best tones I've ever come across. Moving on to a more 'conventional' tube combination, here I have Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with a pair of pristine Gec 6as7g.
> 
> An incredible sounding combination but there have been so many incredible sounding combination, Glenn's OTL amp has exceeded my every expectations of it. It's the best sounding amp with HD800 and the rest of my headphones. My heartiest recommendation.



Thanks for all the tube combination impressions! Look forward to your further comments as the tubes and GOTL settle in with more burn time.
And great photos also.  : )


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> These are the same Cetron 6336Bs I use, the 'tall bottle' version from the '80s. Have a few other 6336A/B varieties, all short bottle versions, but IMHO none perform as well as these. Outstanding tube paired with any driver, but especially with the C3g. Settled down and improved a bit after (at least) 60 hrs, maybe even better at 100 hrs.
> 
> They do need more warm up time (massive tube!),  about 5 minutes to go through the heating/expansion sound effects, maybe 10 minutes for perfect quiet. But even during warm-up, the noise is not really objectionable or distracting for music playback.



I didn't know there are long and short bottle versions but I do know there are 6336, 6336a and 6336b versions. I have only one pair but that is enough because these tubes are as robustly constructed as the Bendix 6080wb, they will last a lifetime.

I agree they sound very good and you're hearing it the same as me because we have the same amp and tube. Ain't that a coincident? Now we just have to get Ross to get the same amp and tube and have him agreeing with us.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Thanks for all the tube combination impressions! Look forward to your further comments as the tubes and GOTL settle in with more burn time.
> And great photos also.  : )



Thanks rnros ! Looking forward to your impressions too because this amp is too good to be kept in the dark. I examine the amp and it is solidly constructed. Love the big, sturdy casework. The steel is well rounded at the edges and very thick. It's build like a tank. I like it.


----------



## rnros (Dec 19, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I didn't know there are long and short bottle versions but I do know there are 6336, 6336a and 6336b versions. I have only one pair but that is enough because these tubes are as robustly constructed as the Bendix 6080wb, they will last a lifetime.
> 
> I agree they sound very good and you're hearing it the same as me because we have the same amp and tube. Ain't that a coincident? Now we just have to get Ross to get the same amp and tube and have him agreeing with us.



I don't know how long they will last, but they look incredibly durable. And they're good to an altitude of 60,000 feet... just in case.  : )

EDIT: The tall bottle version has the gradual, elongated slope at the bottom turn of the glass into the metal base. The shorter bottle has the sharper turn at the base, similar to the shoulder. ('Tall bottle' is only my description of these '80s Cetrons, not a classification used by others.)



UntilThen said:


> Thanks rnros ! Looking forward to your impressions too because this amp is too good to be kept in the dark. I examine the amp and it is solidly constructed. Love the big, sturdy casework. The steel is well rounded at the edges and very thick. It's build like a tank. I like it.



Everything about the GOTL is world class. Sound is outstanding, options are endless, but I agree, the construction and feel of this amp are very reassuring.
It's part of the family now, not going anywhere.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> I don't know how long they will last, but they look incredibly durable. And they're good to an altitude of 60,000 feet... just in case.  : )
> 
> EDIT: The tall bottle version has the gradual, elongated slope at the bottom turn of the glass into the metal base. The shorter bottle has the sharper turn at the base, similar to the shoulder. ('Tall bottle' is only my description of these '80s Cetrons, not a classification used by others.)
> 
> ...



Thanks guys


----------



## UntilThen

Adapters for 6J8G arrived from Poland. They look really classy. When I saw the photo on ebay, I couldn't resist and bought a pair as it's only sold as a pair. 

Prior to getting Glenn OTL, I have rolled a lot of tubes on Elise and Euforia but I never get the opportunity to try some of the top 6SN7s. When I ordered the OTL amp about 2 months ago, I decided it's time to sample these high end 6SN7s. Within a period of 2 days, I'm listening to Sylvania 6SN7w metal base and Tung Sol 6J8G black glass round plates back to back, paired with the luxurious Gec 6as7g.

How does it sound on the OTL with these tubes? Too good !!! To my utter surprise, the TS 6J8G is totally silent with no hum or feedback. I could not believe my luck. Or is it luck?

Sylvania 6SN7w metal base is a details monster. Probably bettered only by the Siemens C3G. The TS 6J8G which is similar to the TS 6SN7 bgrp, is really good in tone and much cheaper than their 6sn7 cousin. In this combination of TS 6J8G and Gec 6as7g, it's buttery smooth, with the sweetness of a robin, a mid range so smooth and a gutsy and punchy bass. I really think this is as good as it gets in the world of 6sn7 and 6as7. In the space of a week, I felt like I've sat on top of Mt Olympus with a headphone on my head and an OTL amp call Ulysses. 

 

I owe Stavros a big thank you for spotting the pair of NOS NIB Tung Sol 6J8G on ebay and alerting me to it. These are branded as 'Art' but Stavros told me they are Tung Sol.


----------



## UntilThen

More tube porn.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> I owe Stavros a big thank you for spotting the pair of NOS NIB Tung Sol 6J8G on ebay and alerting me to it. These are branded as 'Art' but Stavros told me they are Tung Sol.



You are most welcome Matt, I'm here to help, I knew what you were looking for, my own TS 6F8G cost me a lot more. 
There are other interesting tubes to try later when/if you need to experiment more.

Enjoy the music my friend.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> You are most welcome Matt, I'm here to help, I knew what you were looking for, my own TS 6F8G cost me a lot more.
> There are other interesting tubes to try later when/if you need to experiment more.
> 
> Enjoy the music my friend.



Ah there you are. Good to hear from you !!! There are more interesting tubes to try??? Are there more scenic mountains than My Olympus?  I don't think my ears can take any more. It's saturation point and I've yet to roll in the FDD20 and ECC31 and some vintage Fivre and Visseaux 6N7G,


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> Ah there you are. Good to hear from you !!! There are more interesting tubes to try??? Are there more scenic mountains than My Olympus?  I don't think my ears can take any more. It's saturation point and I've yet to roll in the FDD20 and ECC31 and some vintage Fivre and Visseaux 6N7G,



Indeed you need time to evaluate all these nice tubes no need to rush.


----------



## UntilThen

I have all the time in the world and an outstanding OTL amp to sample these tubes with. The euphony is real and scary. I'm just getting a glimpse now. In the months to come, it will all soak in.


----------



## rosgr63

That's right, now you can concentrate on Santa's other presents..........


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> That's right, now you can concentrate on Santa's other presents..........



Like Callaway's most forgiving driver ever?


----------



## UntilThen

These days I'm more interested in these drivers that produce sweet music. Have yet to try the Lafayette flat plate but the Art round plate sound gorgeous. Took me 2 years of my tube life to try these and it's worth it.


----------



## UntilThen

20 mins of listening before I go to work. Music has not been so nuanced, so refined, so holographic. I need no other presents. This OTL amp is my Christmas present and it has arrived early. With TS 6F8G and Gec 6as7g in action, it's poetry in beautiful motion. As graceful as a butterfly.


----------



## UntilThen

No tube rolling tonight. Time for a Munich Lager.


----------



## UntilThen

This is Butcher's Bride. Time to roll beer.


----------



## UntilThen

Since this is also a food thread here's my contribution.


----------



## 2359glenn

Great we needed some new food and beer pictures.


----------



## UntilThen

A german band started playing behind me....


----------



## Sound Trooper

Just placed an order with Glenn for a EL3N!!


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> Just placed an order with Glenn for a EL3N!!



Congratulations !!!


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> This is Butcher's Bride. Time to roll beer.



I am a beer roller too   





Sound Infinity said:


> Just placed an order with Glenn for a EL3N!!



Congrats...you will probably never need another amp!


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 21, 2017)

Santa's little elf is going to be busy this Christmas.
Have 3 amps to build now. And pricing 2 more.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Santa's little elf is going to be busy this Christmas.
> Have 3 amps to build now. And pricing 2 more.



Hahaha ..... will you have time to build your own amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

No time now.
Plus using the transformers I have on order that won't get here till the end of January.
Have to order more today if I can.  Lundahl might be closed already.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> I am a beer roller too
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks! Maybe a 300B? 

Really excited and I would like to thank Glenn for accepting the build!


----------



## rnros

Sound Infinity said:


> Just placed an order with Glenn for a EL3N!!



Congrats. Smart move. : )


----------



## Rossliew

Here's to a productive year for @2359glenn


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> Santa's little elf is going to be busy this Christmas.
> Have 3 amps to build now. And pricing 2 more.



I think you're going to need more than one elf!
Maybe after Christmas, Santa will be able to spare a few more elves.
2018 is going to be very busy for Glenn Amps.

Then there are the new amp ideas... Maybe in 2018.
(And just a reminder, if you ever decide to do that EL3N with C3g option, I'm interested. : ))


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> I am a beer roller too
> 
> Since we are speaking about beer glass sized tubes, can somebody tell me which 6336 tubes are the best ones?
> A quick look at eBay shows regular plates and graphite plates, and brands very similar to the 6080 tubes, and especially the 6080 graphite tubes. It appears to me that the graphite tubes were made by Bendix, and rebranded as Tung Sol, Chatham and Raytheon and maybe other brands, but I am just guessing.
> ...


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 21, 2017)

Mordy, you should preferably look for 6336a or 6336b with graphite plates. I have no experience with other brands but the Cetron which I bought as NOS NIB sounds very good. Since Chatham was bought over by Tung Sol, and Tung Sol was bought over by Cetron, any of those brands will do. I have seen Raytheon 6336b with graphite plates and that might be worth a try.

Get the ones with graphite plates.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> I think you're going to need more than one elf!
> Maybe after Christmas, Santa will be able to spare a few more elves.
> 2018 is going to be very busy for Glenn Amps.
> 
> ...



The C3g might be a great driver for the EL3N. I just used two of the same tube to cancel harmonics and distortion .
If you want a C3g driving a EL3N no problem.


----------



## UntilThen

My stars must have been aligned because I place my order at the right time. There was only @ru4music  before me on the queue. 2 months from order to delivery, that must be a record for a Glenn amp. Thanks Glenn !

It's 10 days since I started using the OTL amp and it has been pure music to my ears, regardless of tubes used. I don't know if I need another amp ever again.  I've swapped out the Gec 6as7g for Rca 6as7g and still using 6F8G as driver. The amp is so quiet and well behaved and the tone is lovely.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The C3g might be a great driver for the EL3N. I just used two of the same tube to cancel harmonics and distortion .
> If you want a C3g driving a EL3N no problem.



It would be interesting to see how this pan out because knowing the tone of C3g and EL3N individually, I think it will blend very well. However my trial of those tubes together in Elise has not produced a good result. The gain is very low. It's quite obvious that you don't use tubes in amps that are not designed for it but if Glenn was to design an amp to use these tubes together, I know it would produce great results.


----------



## TonyNewman

Hi Glenn - have you ever done a C3G->45/2A3 amp? Switchable between 45 and 2A3? SS rectification with 'soft start' (time delay or resistor)?

Been thinking this would be quite a bit more practical than the 300B monster. 300Bs cost a bomb and the amp is like running an indoor BBQ in summer.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It would be interesting to see how this pan out because knowing the tone of C3g and EL3N individually, I think it will blend very well. However my trial of those tubes together in Elise has not produced a good result. The gain is very low. It's quite obvious that you don't use tubes in amps that are not designed for it but if Glenn was to design an amp to use these tubes together, I know it would produce great results.



The Elize was not meant for ether one of these tubes. in a circuit that is proper for these tubes they will sing together.


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:


> Hi Glenn - have you ever done a C3G->45/2A3 amp? Switchable between 45 and 2A3? SS rectification with 'soft start' (time delay or resistor)?
> 
> Been thinking this would be quite a bit more practical than the 300B monster. 300Bs cost a bomb and the amp is like running an indoor BBQ in summer.



Yes I have a long time ago and the 45 sounds great driven by a C3g.
This is why I started making the EL3N amp it sounds close to a 45 and they are cheep $20 each. And are not direct heated
Very easy to work with and I use basically the same output transformers you have on your 300B amp.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Yes I have a long time ago and the 45 sounds great driven by a C3g.
> This is why I started making the EL3N amp it sounds close to a 45 and they are cheep $20 each. And are not direct heated
> Very easy to work with and I use basically the same output transformers you have on your 300B amp.



I would probably go 45/2A3 switchable (if that is possible). Definitely SS rectification for me. 

Let me think about this some more and PM you later.


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> I would probably go 45/2A3 switchable (if that is possible). Definitely SS rectification for me.
> 
> Let me think about this some more and PM you later.



This will be interesting.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> This will be interesting.



My thinking is around getting the lovely 300B sound in a more practical package. The 2A3 is very much a "mini-300B", while the 45 is something I have always wanted to try.

8W of screaming power is nice, but apart from the HE6 and tiny handful of other headphones, it really isn't necessary.

If I could do it all over again, I would go with a C3G driver, solid state rectification, 45 + 2A3 output tubes.

Not sure I will go for it, as the cost is bound to be considerable and I already have the 300B amp with a battery of tubes for it.


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 21, 2017)

Listening to the EL3N tubes in the OTL sound great, wonderful tone, its warm, but yet dynamic.

Listening to the EL3N tube with Glenns topology in his EL3N amp is a different level of good.
Transformer output is definitely a big sound.

EL3N and C3g from Glenn would be great I think.


----------



## rnros (Dec 21, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> The C3g might be a great driver for the EL3N. I just used two of the same tube to cancel harmonics and distortion .
> If you want a C3g driving a EL3N no problem.



Well, not saying I want to give up the EL3N amp sound as you originally designed it.
Thought the C3g sockets/circuits could be added as an additional driver option.
If I had to choose just one? Now, that is a really tough question.
I would have to follow your recommendation.
But first choice is definitely both options on same amp. Possible?


----------



## rnros (Dec 21, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, you should preferably look for 6336a or 6336b with graphite plates. I have no experience with other brands but the Cetron which I bought as NOS NIB sounds very good. Since Chatham was bought over by Tung Sol, and Tung Sol was bought over by Cetron, any of those brands will do. I have seen Raytheon 6336b with graphite plates and that might be worth a try.
> 
> Get the ones with graphite plates.



@mordy I would just add that I have tried several varieties of the graphite plate 6336A/B's and my clear preference was for the Cetron 6336B. The ones I have are from the mid '80s, elongated bottle same as UT has posted. It may be that Tung Sol developed this design, I don't know, the only spec sheet I found for these is Tung Sol/1965, and yes, this spec sheet does show the tall bottle version, same as the '80's Cetron. I have read that Cetron was still selling these in early 2000's, about $150 each. I actually found the website, Cetron still has it listed, but no price indicated.

Only thing is, price for these is higher, for NOS, usually +/- $150/pair, have seen them as high as $330/pair. For the other types, I have paid as low as $40 a pair. Have to get back to them, just wasn't impressed at first listen, maybe with some burn time they will improve.

BTW, that 1965 TS spec sheet describes the use of ceramic plates in place of the usual mica. The later Cetrons use double mica plates. They both use ceramic rods through the graphite plates. Correction: Not ceramic rods, just ceramic spacers, top and bottom.


----------



## gibosi

I have a pair of Cetron 6336B, graphite plates, double mica spacers, dated 8021, and I don't remember being all that impressed. But that was a long time ago..... Maybe I should roll them in again...


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:


> My thinking is around getting the lovely 300B sound in a more practical package. The 2A3 is very much a "mini-300B", while the 45 is something I have always wanted to try.
> 
> 8W of screaming power is nice, but apart from the HE6 and tiny handful of other headphones, it really isn't necessary.
> 
> ...



A 2A3 is two 45's parallel in one tube. If you look at the inside of a 45 then a 2A3 you can see it is two 45s. Except for RCA mono plate
that are unobtainable now. There is the Sovtek mono plate but it i really a 300B with a 2.5 volt filament.

To do this I have to tap the transformer primary the 2A3 needs 1/2 the impedance of the 45 to be able to get the extra power.


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> @mordy I would just add that I have tried several varieties of the graphite plate 6336A/B's and my clear preference was for the Cetron 6336B. The ones I have are from the mid '80s, elongated bottle same as UT has posted. It may be that Tung Sol developed this design, I don't know, the only spec sheet I found for these is Tung Sol/1965, and yes, this spec sheet does show the tall bottle version, same as the '80's Cetron. I have read that Cetron was still selling these in early 2000's, about $150 each. I actually found the website, Cetron still has it listed, but no price indicated.
> 
> Only thing is, price for these is higher, for NOS, usually +/- $150/pair, have seen them as high as $330/pair. For the other types, I have paid as low as $40 a pair. Have to get back to them, just wasn't impressed at first listen, maybe with some burn time they will improve.
> 
> BTW, that 1965 TS spec sheet describes the use of ceramic plates in place of the usual mica. The later Cetrons use double mica plates. They both use ceramic rods through the graphite plates.


Hi rnros,

Thanks for the reply. It seems from you and others that the Cetron 6336B are the best. If I understand correctly they have eight support rods. I am curious if Bendix made all of the graphite plates (in different versions).


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi rnros,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. It seems from you and others that the Cetron 6336B are the best. If I understand correctly they have eight support rods. I am curious if Bendix made all of the graphite plates (in different versions).



I doubt it. To the best of my knowledge, Bendix was never acquired by Tung-Sol. My best guess is that the 6336, 6336A and 6336B were developed by Chatham and this tube continued to be manufactured in the same Chatham factory after Tung-Sol and, then Cetron, took control.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> A 2A3 is two 45's parallel in one tube. If you look at the inside of a 45 then a 2A3 you can see it is two 45s. Except for RCA mono plate
> that are unobtainable now. There is the Sovtek mono plate but it i really a 300B with a 2.5 volt filament.
> 
> To do this I have to tap the transformer primary the 2A3 needs 1/2 the impedance of the 45 to be able to get the extra power.



Thanks Glenn - I didn't know that. Do you have any impressions on the SQ of 45 vs 2A3?

I would guess they are very similar, given that the 2A3 is 2x45?


----------



## attmci

hmm, 5998 clear-top, 6SN7W, and Tungsram GZ34 (mullard) drive a pair of KSC-35 very well.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi rnros,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. It seems from you and others that the Cetron 6336B are the best. If I understand correctly they have eight support rods. I am curious if Bendix made all of the graphite plates (in different versions).



Hi mordy,
What @gibosi says about the history makes sense. According to this post, Cetron acquired Tung Sol in 1975:
https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/tubes/215937/

Looking at the tube, I see 6 rods, 2 are the getter rods, the other 4 are at the mica plate circumference with clips at each of the 3 mica stages, so these do function as support rods. (Interesting that each pair of these support rods are actually part of a 'U' shape, with the bottom horizontal functioning as a positive or negative bus for the heater filaments.)
Some decent eBay photos:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NIB-Cetron-6336B-Tubes-USA-Graphite-Plates/272957900585?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/x2-PAIR-NO...ON-TUBE-6336B-CETRON-6336-6336A/311935870204?


----------



## mordy (Dec 22, 2017)

rnros said:


> @mordy I would just add that I have tried several varieties of the graphite plate 6336A/B's and my clear preference was for the Cetron 6336B. The ones I have are from the mid '80s, elongated bottle same as UT has posted. It may be that Tung Sol developed this design, I don't know, the only spec sheet I found for these is Tung Sol/1965, and yes, this spec sheet does show the tall bottle version, same as the '80's Cetron. I have read that Cetron was still selling these in early 2000's, about $150 each. I actually found the website, Cetron still has it listed, but no price indicated.
> 
> Only thing is, price for these is higher, for NOS, usually +/- $150/pair, have seen them as high as $330/pair. For the other types, I have paid as low as $40 a pair. Have to get back to them, just wasn't impressed at first listen, maybe with some burn time they will improve.
> 
> BTW, that 1965 TS spec sheet describes the use of ceramic plates in place of the usual mica. The later Cetrons use double mica plates. They both use ceramic rods through the graphite plates. Correction: Not ceramic rods, just ceramic spacers, top and bottom.


Hi rnros,

Richardson Electronics, which bought Cetron, is still in business, and among many other things, sells tubes:
http://www.relltubes.com/products/Electron-Tubes-Vacuum-Devices/Receiving-Tube.html?
PgSz=10&PgSt=25
However, even though a lot of stuff is listed, you have to request a price quote. Alas, no 6336 tubes listed....(at least I could not find them listed - 770 tubes listed)


----------



## rnros (Dec 22, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi rnros,
> 
> Richardson Electronics, which bought Cetron, is still in business, and among many other things, sells tubes:
> http://www.relltubes.com/products/Electron-Tubes-Vacuum-Devices/Receiving-Tube.html?
> ...



Here is the Cetron triode page, 6336B is second on the list:
http://www.relltubes.com/products/Electron-Tubes-Vacuum-Devices/Triode.html?Manufacturer=75

I have no idea if they actually still sell this tube, and at what price level, guess you could ask for a quote.
Don't think these are still manufactured today. Latest date I saw was 1987. Would be nice if they were letting these go at surplus price levels.
Saw this before but never bothered to ask for a quote, just assumed it would be more expensive than the surplus stock that made it's way to online markets like eBay.


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> My thinking is around getting the lovely 300B sound in a more practical package. The 2A3 is very much a "mini-300B", while the 45 is something I have always wanted to try.
> 
> 8W of screaming power is nice, but apart from the HE6 and tiny handful of other headphones, it really isn't necessary.
> 
> ...



I like your thoughts. In the realm of high end head-fi tube amps, these tubes (45, 2A3, 300b) feature prominently. Having sample the OTL amp, I know that Glenn can produce some brilliant sounding tube amps. There have been too many favourable impressions of the 300b and GEL3N amps.

I'm going to stay with the OTL amp for a while. One year minimum. My early assessment of GOTL is a top of the class score. I'm very impressed with what I hear. So much so I'm content to just listen to music day after day. Even if I get another Glenn's amp, this OTL amp will be a keeper. I like it that much. Part of my going with hexfred rectifier is also from your feedback. I like the dynamics and agility of this OTL amp.


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 22, 2017)

A lot of interest have been generated of the 6336 tubes. I too think they sound great. So did all the 6AS7, 6080 and 6SN7s I've tried so far. However each time I return to C3g and 6 x 6BX7, I just stop momentarily and wonder in amazement at how good this tone is. This is the dynamics, the control, the euphony that I've been chasing. I really think this defines Glenn's OTL amp despite all the other tubes that makes this amp sound good too.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> A lot of interest have been generated of the 6336 tubes. I too think they sound great. So did all the 6AS7, 6080 and 6SN7s I've tried so far. However each time I return to C3g and 6 x 6BX7, I just stop momentarily and wonder in amazement at how good this tone is. This is the dynamics, the control, the euphony that I've been chasing. I really think this defines Glenn's OTL amp despite all the other tubes that makes this amp sound good too.



Agree with you that the C3g and 6BX7 combination is outstanding.
Most impressed that the GOTL sounds so good with such a wide range of tubes, including many that are very reasonable in cost.
I think favorites would depend a lot on synergy with other components, especially headphones.
And music choices, recording qualities.

Star of the show is the GOTL and how transparent and responsive it is to all tube choices, be it rectifier, driver, or output.
IMHO.


----------



## lukeap69

rnros said:


> Agree with you that the C3g and 6BX7 combination is outstanding.
> Most impressed that the GOTL sounds so good with such a wide range of tubes, including many that are very reasonable in cost.
> I think favorites would depend a lot on synergy with other components, especially headphones.
> And music choices, recording qualities.
> ...


This.

I think headphones play a lot when choosing which tubes to roll, however it is difficult to make Glenn OTL sound bad except if the tubes are bad themselves. As I have said before, my Darna sounded good with all the tubes that I have rolled including the cheapo ones. Elevating the sound to further higher level by rolling 6BX7, 7236, GEC 6AS7G, etc. is just a bonus IMO. Although I would probably own a Glenn EL3N amp or 300B or whatever amp Glenn will make, the OTL (my Darna) will stay one of my favourite headphone amp. I have heard WA-5, Liquid Glass and other expensive amps with my own HD800 SD and I would rank my Darna higher. Yes, you can quote me on that. But of course this is all IMHO and YMMV.


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 22, 2017)

ru4music said:


> Yes, I'm very interested in his review of the Atticus and GEL3N... About two hours into my warmup of Scarlett for my listening tonight.



The Atticus seems to be coming around very nicely, and I am sure it will sound better with a few more hours on it.

You have no worries what so ever about the synergy with the EL3N amp, in fact it is absolutely off the hook.

I really have not even took time to roll rectifiers with it, as I figured i would burn it in with the 3DG3.

I can not compare the two amps yet as I have not tried the Atticus with the OTL yet, I will get around to that once I feel the headphone is completely burned in.

I can tell you that it sound fantastic in both modes of the EL3N amp...in one tube mode the back round is as black as midnight as nothing in in between the signal path...very detailed
Two tube mode is more dynamic and more impactful...both modes provide a warm, and dynamic sound...such a top-notch sound for blues music. I love having both modes on this amp.

The mid bass of the Atticus is top notch for sure and the mids are to die for.  The sound has a lot of meat on it's bones, nice weight to the overall sound, it is warm, thick, rich ...sort of like honey...yet it
is never slow like molasses. The bass definitely adds another layer of texture and adds to the depth of the sound stage as well...the headphones is 85% closed,
but in some ways sounds like an open headphone.

It is never tilting on the bright side, and that is one of its best features for me, I love that.
I would call it a tad elevated in the bass and a tad less in the treble...this also seems to be the tuning that I have come to like best.

There is nothing analytical about this headphone, so you don't find your self sitting there listening for micro details...this headphone is very, very musical..I love that...I just listen to music with it.
These impressions are based off of about the 50 blues albums that I have listened too so far, so this is not a song here or there or a couple of albums
I would love to see Zach make an open planar headphone, something based of the Ori, but with his own planar drivers.

I have been buying new blues music and going through my old music like crazy.

I will roll rectifiers sometime soon as I have a few days off for the Holidays, I will also get around to trying the OTL amp after more burn in, but right now I don't want to unplug them from the amp  

I have recently bought a lot of Snowy White albums and I can't stop listening. For those not much aware of him, he played with Thin Lizzy and also played some backing guitar with Pink Floyd
and done stuff with Roger Waters...but it is his blues stuff that really is what I dig the most.

I will give more impressions later as the headphone burns in and when I change amps...this is just stuff that comes to my head and stands out as I listen.

Here is some Snowy White for those that have never heard him.


----------



## rosgr63

Nice, very nice Joe.
Enjoy the music.


----------



## UntilThen

There is a consensus now on the OTL amp. Good to hear that. I'm not imagining things. 

Good to hear you're loving the Atticus on GEL3N, Joe. Of the 4 headphones that I have, 2 are more details orientated and 2 are more relaxing. I love them all but I do have a slight preference for HD800 and Eikon. Slight because I can really sit down and enjoy my music with Atticus and LCD-2f too. They sound brilliant on GOTL and Ragnarok.

I love the Grado Statement headphone GS2000e too but it's quite expensive. Love the beauty of the construction with the big earpads that covers your ears completely. Lightweight and comfortable on the head but it sounds lovely to my ears. 

Now I'm listening to the Wall by Pink Floyd with this setup for a totally immersive experience. The music's great.


----------



## leftside

Looks like the ZMF Auteur should be ready to ship next month. From everything I've read, they should be a great pairing with the Glenn 300B. I'll report back in a few weeks.


----------



## UntilThen

You do that Leftside and remember pictures !

Meanwhile on the Eve of the Eve of Christmas, I am listening to this setup of 6J8G and 6 x 6BX7. It's great.


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> The Atticus seems to be coming around very nicely, and I am sure it will sound better with a few more hours on it.
> 
> You have no worries what so ever about the synergy with the EL3N amp, in fact it is absolutely off the hook.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the feedback, nicely detailed review of the Atticus!


----------



## UntilThen

Rearrange my desktop. iMac is back because I feel Audirvana Plus 3 is better sounding than the JRiver Media 23 and Roon on the PC. 

PC sits to the right of iMac now.


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 23, 2017)

The last time I use 5998 on the OTL, I use 4 of them. It's time to try just a pair with C3Gs and hear for myself how it sounds. It's the bee's knees. 

Did it strike you that the large BHC filters on the left looks like BIG c3gs? It's very matching.


----------



## UntilThen

3 hours before Christmas and I'm listening to music with both these 2 amps and my headphones.

Merry Christmas everyone.... advance greetings because I'll be too engrossed.


----------



## Rossliew

Merry Christmas, @UntilThen and everyone else who celebrates . It’s about 5 hours to Christmas for us here


----------



## 2359glenn

Merry Christmas to all my friends on the other side of the world.
Have Great and happy Christmas.


----------



## attmci

Happy Holidays to my friends and follow music lovers here.


----------



## lukeap69

Merry Christmas everyone.


----------



## whirlwind

Merry Christmas To Everybody.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Merry Christmas To Everybody.



Santa is still dropping off that globe 80 maybe a little late


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Santa is still dropping off that globe 80 maybe a little late




Oh my...Thank you Santa   

You are the best!

There is a little something in the mail for you also, looks like a Wednesday delivery.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Oh my...Thank you Santa
> 
> You are the best!
> 
> There is a little something in the mail for you also, looks like a Wednesday delivery.



Wednesday or Thursday had to take care of the grand children first


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Wednesday or Thursday had to take care of the grand children first



Thanks again.
Looks great.  Am I correct thinking that these were used in the old radios back in the day....1930's - 1940's


----------



## rosgr63

Merry Christmas!!!


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Thanks again.
> Looks great.  Am I correct thinking that these were used in the old radios back in the day....1930's - 1940's



The Type 80 was first introduced in 1927, the same year as the 26 and 27.

This tube was probably manufactured by Sylvania, in May, 1932.


----------



## UntilThen

Woke up to Christmas Day and lots of Christmas greetings. What a wonderful forum. 

I've a new tube to roll !!!


----------



## UntilThen

What is your special moment in your 2017 audio world? I look back on mine and there were a few. The arrival of Yggdrasil, Rega RP8 and Redgum RGi120ENR (almost forgot Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP) but it's the Glenn9 OTL amp that stood out.

I'm am not listening critically now (who would do that on Christmas Day) but going through La Figaro 339, Ragnarok and Glenn9 OTL amp, it's clear to me which I prefer the most. Ordinarily I would have been happy with the first 2 amps. They are no slouch and in my opinion, star performers. Hard not to be happy with them. However its the Glenn9 OTL that stood out. In tone, dynamics, resolution and musicality, it's on a different elevated plane. Music listening has not been more enjoyable. 

Once again greetings to everyone and your family here. Merry Christmas.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> The Type 80 was first introduced in 1927, the same year as the 26 and 27.
> 
> This tube was probably manufactured by Sylvania, in May, 1932.



The predecessor of the 5Y3 that is a 80 with a 8 pin octal base.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Thanks again.
> Looks great.  Am I correct thinking that these were used in the old radios back in the day....1930's - 1940's



Almost all us made AC line powered radios had a 80 rectifier in them.
Some fancy radios with #50 output tubes that had higher B+ used two #81 rectifiers.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> What is your special moment in your 2017 audio world?



Discovering that type 27 triodes sounded incredibly good in the GOTL. These Philco type 27 were manufactured in 1931 by Sylvania. And it is very likely that at one time they were installed in a Philco radio with a Philco type 80 rectifier, exactly like the one pictured above.


----------



## UntilThen

That is a nice shape tube. What adapter do you use. I saw a Cunningham pair that looks good in blue. 

These are early predecessor of 6sn7 right?


----------



## rnros

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to All!
And thank you for the good will, good humor, and invaluable sharing of information.


----------



## mordy

Speaking about old tubes, here is a picture of an Arcturus tube 227 that was in service for 79 years from 1927 until 2006:





You know those car magazines with pictures of the most expensive Ferraris, Lamborghinis and Porches....Well, looking at these amps, which appear to be cost no object DIY projects , that is how I feel.....
http://www.jacmusic.com/

Click on customer projects.


----------



## gibosi (Dec 24, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> That is a nice shape tube. What adapter do you use. I saw a Cunningham pair that looks good in blue.
> 
> These are early predecessor of 6sn7 right?



I doubt that the Cunninghams are blue. All Cunningham 27 were manufactured by RCA so I suspect that the blue tint is due the lighting in that photo. The only blue 27 I have seen were manufactured by Arcturus, but there might have been others....

I use a modified 76 to 6SN7 adapter. While 76 have 6.3 volt heaters, the 27 have 2.5 volt heaters and draw 1.75 amps each. So you will need an external heater power supply. Pictured below is a pair of type 37 triodes, and I used an external heater power supply to provide DC. Unfortunately, 37 triodes are pretty scarce and I didn't have much luck finding quiet ones, so I decided to run 27 instead.

And yes, one could say that the 27 is a direct ancestor of the 6SN7 in that it was among the very first indirectly heated triodes. However, the amplification factor is 9, compared to 20 for the 6SN7.

You might want to start with 76 triodes. They were introduced in 1934, have a higher amplification factor, 13.8, and run on 6.3 volts, so no external heater power supply.


----------



## UntilThen

Interesting and certainly good information sharing. Appreciate that.

I'm about to roll in some economical tubes. A pair of RCA 6as7g and a pair of RCA 6080. I'll pair it with the RCA 1633. Let's see what the RCAs can do.


----------



## ru4music

A very Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!


----------



## Sound Trooper

Merry Xmas and happy holidays guys!

I have finally finished reading the entire thread (all 1161 pages of it!) and I’m as excited as ever to have one of Glenn’s creation with me. I can’t wait to pair my Abyss Phi with the EL3N!​


----------



## 2359glenn

Merry Christmas everyone.


----------



## UntilThen

Merry Christmas Glenn and thanks again for this lovely sounding OTL amp. Today, I hear a marked change in tone. A deeper density and more penetrating details. Still loving the c3gs and 6bx7s. This has the most gain of all the tube combinations and is my favourite.


----------



## whirlwind

Merry Christmas Glenn & Lucy and Everybody Else.

We have a white Christmas here in my little town in Ohio.

Ken, I bet you have a white Christmas too.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Merry Christmas Glenn & Lucy and Everybody Else.
> 
> We have a white Christmas here in my little town in Ohio.
> 
> Ken, I bet you have a white Christmas too.



Merry Christmas Joe
No Snow in NC it would have been nice 
I think snow the end of the week


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Merry Christmas Glenn & Lucy and Everybody Else.
> 
> We have a white Christmas here in my little town in Ohio.
> 
> Ken, I bet you have a white Christmas too.



Yes, in my town, we are having a white Christmas too.


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> Merry Christmas everyone.



Merry Christmas Glenn! Merry Christmas everyone!


----------



## UntilThen

As I celebrate Boxing Day, most of you in the US of A are probably enjoying your Christmas meals and opening your presents.  New York is 16 hours behind Sydney. It's 8:25am on the 26th of Dec 2017 here. I use to be giving presents to the family but now they are giving presents to me instead. 

Moving forward I have rearrange my desk for a 2 screens setup again. Use to have 3 screens.  Then it went down to one and now back to 2. iMac solely for music and PC for all other purposes.

Trying out 6BL7 instead of 6BX7. More gain and more vivid tonally. I really have no objections to it. Currently running Telefunken C3G/s and 6 x Sylvania 6BL7gt and loving it. To get a perspective of how gain varies using different tubes on this OTL amp, this is the volume setting I set to, for my usual listening level - which is neither too loud or too soft for my ears. 

c3g and 6 x 6BL7 - 2 or 3 clicks
c3g and 6 x 6BX7 - about 9am
c3g and 2 x 5998 - 9 to10am
6sn7 and 5998 - 10am
6J8G and 6as7 / 6080 - 12 noon

I don't use the boost switch much probably because I don't feel the need to use it as all my headphones are relatively easy to drive, including the 70 ohms LCD-2f. Also I get the idea that boosting the tubes will burn it up faster.


----------



## UntilThen

Since I have these 3 amps with me for a few days, I might as well try all my headphones with them and form some opinions. From the outset, I will say that these amps sounded great with the ZMF headphones, Audeze and Sennheiser. However the level of greatness will be different. 

I'll report back when I'm ready.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn, I think I found a new wonder drug. Can I use this? 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4x-5A-1...900229?hash=item4408b5ad45:g:7NwAAOSwXaRaAGOB


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Glenn, I think I found a new wonder drug. Can I use this?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4x-5A-1...900229?hash=item4408b5ad45:g:7NwAAOSwXaRaAGOB



Interesting!  But UT don't you have enough tubes already (rhetorical question only)? 

Tube data sheet: https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/144/5/5A-152M.pdf


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Glenn, I think I found a new wonder drug. Can I use this?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4x-5A-1...900229?hash=item4408b5ad45:g:7NwAAOSwXaRaAGOB



Pinout is different than a C3g, so an adapter would be necessary.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Glenn, I think I found a new wonder drug. Can I use this?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4x-5A-1...900229?hash=item4408b5ad45:g:7NwAAOSwXaRaAGOB





gibosi said:


> Pinout is different than a C3g, so an adapter would be necessary.


There is a loctal C3m 20V tube that comes as a 6.3V version, the C3o. The pinout should be the same as the C3g.





Here is everything you want to know about these C3g,m,o tubes:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/images/tubephoto_klein/c3o_siemens.jpg


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> There is a loctal C3m 20V tube that comes as a 6.3V version, the C3o. The pinout should be the same as the C3g.


----------



## mordy

Sorry - PC does not let me post link. Google C3g JACMusic, and you should find it.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Pinout is different than a C3g, so an adapter would be necessary.



Won't be touching it then. I'm keeping adapter usage to a minimum.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Interesting! But UT don't you have enough tubes already (rhetorical question only)?



Good question. I've often ask myself that and there is no answer. Perhaps that is the reason I sold off the Primaluna. 8 x KT150 will set me back $1000. Since then I wanted to go solid state but once a tube amp lover, always a tube amp lover.

Glenn's OTL amp appeal is that it can sound really good with c3g and 6 x 6BL7 / 6BX7 or c3g and 2 x 5998. I mean really good. As good as your GEL3N I'm willing to bet.


----------



## 2359glenn

Electrically it would work but the pin configuration is different from the C3g.
I don't think it would be worth having a custom adapter to put 2 of them into the 6SN7 socket.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> There is a loctal C3m 20V tube that comes as a 6.3V version, the C3o. The pinout should be the same as the C3g.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The C3o does not have the same pinout as the C3g. So unfortunately, an adapter would be necessary.


----------



## UntilThen

Should stick to c3g. I would hate to change the tone I'm hearing now. I'm looking for more c3g because it's sounding great in the OTL. As I said before, c3g can sound strident in my first attempt with it on Elise. It's very clear and sweet but it does get on your ears after a while. On Glenn's OTL though, c3g with 6BL7 and in particular 6BX7 sounded like the ideal driver. It's revealing without being clinical. I listen for hours and it didn't sound bright. It's certainly not dull. There's a layering of details and you hear the micro details in those layers. It's uncanny. It makes me want to explore more music now. It's put a temporary halt to tube rolling now. Everything's come together now. From source, amp to headphones. I start to forget about gear and start to rampage through Tidal HiFi library instead.

GOTL is showing the distance between it and La Figaro 339 and Ragnarok. I used to love those 2 amps and I still think they are very capable of what they do. However listening with GOTL just shines the spotlight on the OTL and makes you want to spend your time with it rather than try and listen with the other 2 amps. Sadly I realised that Ragnarok will eventually stay there on top of Yggy, without being powered on and La Figaro 339 will be returned to my son. I'll give this comparison a few more days before I dismantle it before the end of the year.

Next stop would be to get Jimmy over with his WA5 for a side by side listening session, sometime early in the new year.


----------



## Rossliew

Selling your Rag, @UntilThen ?


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Selling your Rag, @UntilThen ?



I think it's inevitable. Getting deeper into head-fi has been a lesson for me and one that I can only experience it first hand. Rag is not even one year old. I love it when I first heard it with Yggy and HD800. It's not so much that I love it less now but that GOTL just sounded so much better. You will know what I mean because you have been through quite a lot of gear yourself.

I will know what I want to do soon into 2018. Sell off Rag and maybe one or 2 headphones.... and a new amp from Glenn. A few changes but nothing as crazy as 2017.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> I think it's inevitable. Getting deeper into head-fi has been a lesson for me and one that I can only experience it first hand. Rag is not even one year old. I love it when I first heard it with Yggy and HD800. It's not so much that I love it less now but that GOTL just sounded so much better. You will know what I mean because you have been through quite a lot of gear yourself.
> 
> I will know what I want to do soon into 2018. Sell off Rag and maybe one or 2 headphones.... and a new amp from Glenn. A few changes but nothing as crazy as 2017.



Another amp from Glenn? A GEL3N? That would be a nice complement to the GOTL. But if you can swing it, the 300B would be the ultimate  

Need to read up more on Rag...wonder how it fares compared to the GSX..


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Another amp from Glenn? A GEL3N? That would be a nice complement to the GOTL. But if you can swing it, the 300B would be the ultimate
> 
> Need to read up more on Rag...wonder how it fares compared to the GSX..



Well getting Glenn's 300b would make 2018 just as crazy as 2017. Wouldn't it?  Either GEL3N or 300b would be exciting but hey I'm just starting to enjoy my GOTL. So slow down hosey.

As for Rag vs GSX, you know I'm the best salesman in the world. I'll make Bata shoes sound more glamorous than Nike.


----------



## rnros (Dec 26, 2017)

mordy said:


> Sorry - PC does not let me post link. Google C3g JACMusic, and you should find it.



Thanks. Good information.

Here's the link:
http://www.jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/Portraits/C3g/C3g-C3m-info.html


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Well getting Glenn's 300b would make 2018 just as crazy as 2017. Wouldn't it?  Either GEL3N or 300b would be exciting but hey I'm just starting to enjoy my GOTL. So slow down hosey.
> 
> As for Rag vs GSX, you know I'm the best salesman in the world. I'll make Bata shoes sound more glamorous than Nike.



You should be asleep by now but you aren't...testament to the alluring power of the GOTL  

And you know you want that 300B...but i digress, come now, pitch me the Rag


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> You should be asleep by now but you aren't...testament to the alluring power of the GOTL
> 
> And you know you want that 300B...but i digress, come now, pitch me the Rag



The alluring power of the GOTL. Too right. Since the 12th of Dec, I couldn't stop listening. It's taking my attention away from my stereo system and that's not normal. As for sleeping, the next 3 days at work will be light, so I can afford to be a zombie.

I'll toss you the Rag when I'm mentally ready.


----------



## jmac1516

UntilThen said:


> Since I have these 3 amps with me for a few days, I might as well try all my headphones with them and form some opinions. From the outset, I will say that these amps sounded great with the ZMF headphones, Audeze and Sennheiser. However the level of greatness will be different.
> 
> I'll report back when I'm ready.


I could spend a week straight sitting in front of those set ups and just listening to music!


----------



## UntilThen

jmac1516 said:


> I could spend a week straight sitting in front of those set ups and just listening to music!



Thank you. You gear aren't too shabby either. I'm familiar with Violectric V281 sound and almost bought it but after 3 auditions, I went for Ragnarok instead.

For me the star of the show is Yggdrasil and Glenn 9 OTL amp. The fusion here is electrifying. Much better than Yggdrasil and Woo Audio WA5 at the Meet in Oct from my recollection but I'll listen to them side by side again.


----------



## gibosi

I am pleased to report that Santa found my house. But as we know, his vacuum tube workshops have long since closed and eBay is rather hit or miss, so instead, he brought me a pair of socks. Now these would certainly not be my first choice, but who am I to second-guess Santa? After all, he knows better than I what I want and what I need. lol


----------



## UntilThen

You are supposed to put your biggest tubes in the sock to keep it well protected.

In other news I just received my Ken Rad 1633. This is much bigger than a normal Ken Rad 6sn7gt. What did they feed it?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> You are supposed to put your biggest tubes in the sock to keep it well protected.
> 
> In other news I just received my Ken Rad 1633. This is much bigger than a normal Ken Rad 6sn7gt. What did they feed it?



Nice sounding tube!!!


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> You are supposed to put your biggest tubes in the sock to keep it well protected.
> 
> In other news I just received my Ken Rad 1633. This is much bigger than a normal Ken Rad 6sn7gt. What did they feed it?



Much bigger? Really? How about a pic?

From my collection, left to right: Ken-Rad 6SN7GT, Ken-Rad 1633 and RCA 6SN7GT.  So the two-Ken Rads are the same size, and both are slightly taller than the RCA.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> The C3o does not have the same pinout as the C3g. So unfortunately, an adapter would be necessary.


Thanks for the correction. I did look at the schematic for the pin out of both tubes, but I guess it was too late at night for me to see straight lol


gibosi said:


> I am pleased to report that Santa found my house. But as we know, his vacuum tube workshops have long since closed and eBay is rather hit or miss, so instead, he brought me a pair of socks. Now these would certainly not be my first choice, but who am I to second-guess Santa? After all, he knows better than I what I want and what I need. lol


I guess that there was a misunderstanding about *tube socks.....*


----------



## UntilThen

Will take a picture tonight. Going to see Star Wars now. May the force be with you !


----------



## UntilThen

Ken Rad 1633 is only slightly bigger than the other similar tubes. When I had a look at it during lunch time, it seems very big to me.

I paid $13 for it and it's a very good value tube. As good as the Ken Rad 6SN7gt. Paired with Tung Sol 5998, it's my next favourite after c3g and 6bx7. I hope you guys bought the rest of it because there are none left.

Left to right:- Ken Rad 1633, RCA 1633, Ken Rad 6SN7gt, Raytheon 6SN7gt.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I have yet to try RCA 6BX7, but I have spent quite a bit of time with GE, Sylvania and Tung-Sol. And of these, I like the Tung-Sol the best.


Just ordered a pair of NOS RCA 6BX7.




Do you see the tell tale sand blasted dots? This one says RCA but it is made by GE.
Date code MM means November 1961.
I am not used to these prices - paid $5.50 each incl shipping, but in the past I paid around $2-3....
Inflation....


----------



## UntilThen

$5.50 including shipping is so cheap ! I paid $25 each for my Los Gatos not including shipping.


----------



## UntilThen

Simple and effective. The OTL amp sounds wonderful with Ken Rad 1633 and Tung Sol 5998. Using Atticus with Forza Audioworks Claire Hybrid HPC, it's all you need to enjoy great music.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Simple and effective. The OTL amp sounds wonderful with Ken Rad 1633 and Tung Sol 5998. Using Atticus with Forza Audioworks Claire Hybrid HPC, it's all you need to enjoy great music.



Ken-Rad 1633 and 6SN7 sound great if you get some that aren't noisy.
I have to order some more 1633s $4 each can't beat that for a quality SN7 type.


----------



## UntilThen

Another nice combination using Ken Rad 1633 and Cetron 7236. Nice variation with a tighter and more incisive tone. Glenn's tuning of this amp is brilliant. High frequencies are clear and revealing but there are no rough edges. It's very smooth. Vocals takes centre stage and amongst the best mid presentation. Bass is outstanding. So impactful and controlled. The frequency spectrum is seamless and it's easy to lose yourself to music.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Ken-Rad 1633 and 6SN7 sound great if you get some that aren't noisy.
> I have to order some more 1633s $4 each can't beat that for a quality SN7 type.



Even RCA 1633 sounds great. I haven't spend too much time with Brimar 13D1 to get a solid impression. Will need to visit that again.

How do you get 1633s for $4 each !!!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Ken-Rad 1633 and 6SN7 sound great if you get some that aren't noisy.



I've been fortunate. None of my tubes are noisy. In fact the tubes and amp is so silent I keep trying to listen for noise and hum. Nothing. 

So I gave up listening for noise and hum and listen to music instead.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> $5.50 including shipping is so cheap ! I paid $25 each for my Los Gatos not including shipping.


Los Gatos have some Spanish tone in them so they are a bit more pricey.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Simple and effective. The OTL amp sounds wonderful with Ken Rad 1633 and Tung Sol 5998. Using Atticus with Forza Audioworks Claire Hybrid HPC, it's all you need to enjoy great music.



Matt - can you compare 5999 and GEC 6AS7 for me? It is worth huntinh 5998 if you have GEC 6AS7 already? Ta.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Even RCA 1633 sounds great. I haven't spend too much time with Brimar 13D1 to get a solid impression. Will need to visit that again.
> 
> How do you get 1633s for $4 each !!!



 I sent you  pm  were to get them at that price and he has other tubes like 6F8G cheep.


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 27, 2017)

OK...swapped amps with my son.  Time for some OTL goodness with the Atticus.





I have not listened to this amp for quite some time, and the first thought that come to my head was the same thought when I first listened to it with the HD800.

Man, this amp drives this headphone with some serious authority.

Listening to Dr. Wu & Friends.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I am pleased to report that Santa found my house. But as we know, his vacuum tube workshops have long since closed and eBay is rather hit or miss, so instead, he brought me a pair of socks. Now these would certainly not be my first choice, but who am I to second-guess Santa? After all, he knows better than I what I want and what I need. lol




Ha....great socks Ken, all I got was some white socks...I dig yours much more.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Matt - can you compare 5999 and GEC 6AS7 for me? It is worth huntinh 5998 if you have GEC 6AS7 already? Ta.



I will do that after a couple of chardonay on the 30th.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Good question. I've often ask myself that and there is no answer. Perhaps that is the reason I sold off the Primaluna. 8 x KT150 will set me back $1000. Since then I wanted to go solid state but once a tube amp lover, always a tube amp lover.
> 
> Glenn's OTL amp appeal is that it can sound really good with c3g and 6 x 6BL7 / 6BX7 or c3g and 2 x 5998. I mean really good. As good as your GEL3N I'm willing to bet.



I have no doubts, in fact in some ways (sound wise) I'm sure the GOTL sounds better.  The GEL3N has a different presentation where it's definitely a mid-centric focused amp.  I have about 120 hours on it now and it continues to improve, I'll wait until 200 hours before posting my overall impressions.  At this point I wouldn't call it a "end-game" amp for me, but for certain types of music genre it performs wonderfully.


----------



## jelt2359

2359glenn said:


> Santa's little elf is going to be busy this Christmas.
> Have 3 amps to build now. And pricing 2 more.



Don't forget mine  I haven't, but maybe Tribute has, I should drop him an email. Good thing I'm really patient... Ha.

Happy holidays!


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> I have no doubts, in fact in some ways (sound wise) I'm sure the GOTL sounds better.  The GEL3N has a different presentation where it's definitely a mid-centric focused amp.  I have about 120 hours on it now and it continues to improve, I'll wait until 200 hours before posting my overall impressions.  At this point I wouldn't call it a "end-game" amp for me, but for certain types of music genre it performs wonderfully.



Thanks for your feedback mate and I don't mean to start an amp war. I was only jesting.  Will look forward to your final summary.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Matt - can you compare 5999 and GEC 6AS7 for me? It is worth huntinh 5998 if you have GEC 6AS7 already? Ta.



No problem Arnold. In fact I will extend that to my 4 favourite power tubes. Gec 6as7g, Tung Sol 5998, Bendix 6080 and Gec 6080. I'll be using Telefunken c3g/s as drivers which for the purpose of this evaluation, can be considered as Siemens c3g equivalent. Headphones used will primarily be HD800 and Eikon.


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 28, 2017)

jelt2359 said:


> Don't forget mine  I haven't, but maybe Tribute has, I should drop him an email. Good thing I'm really patient... Ha.
> 
> Happy holidays!



I was gong to ask you what happened to the Tribute transformers??
You know no matter how good these transformers sound I will never use them.
Think it has been a year now waiting for them to be made.


----------



## Sound Trooper

1 year waiting time for transformers?! Wow!


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Infinity said:


> 1 year waiting time for transformers?! Wow!



I know waiting to build his amp for a year now crazy. I hope he didn't pay for them yet starting to wonder if we will ever get them.
Cold here this morning -9C plan on staying in the house building amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Ha....great socks Ken, all I got was some white socks...I dig yours much more.



Hi Joe
You might want to put those socks on this morning very cold here cant imagine how cold it is in Ohio
16 F here -16 F in New York were our kids live. My daughter was smart and moved to Florida 60 F.


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> I know waiting to build his amp for a year now crazy. I hope he didn't pay for them yet starting to wonder if we will ever get them.
> Cold here this morning -9C plan on staying in the house building amps.



Great plan Glenn! Guess my parts will only be with you in Feb?


----------



## lukeap69

Yll


2359glenn said:


> Hi Joe
> You might want to put those socks on this morning very cold here cant imagine how cold it is in Ohio
> 16 F here -16 F in New York were our kids live. My daughter was smart and moved to Florida 60 F.


And I am in LA at the moment, 12 C. I can't connect with all this F you are talking about. Further, I have been struggling to understand how fast mph is. I thought 70 was slow.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> No problem Arnold. In fact I will extend that to my 4 favourite power tubes. Gec 6as7g, Tung Sol 5998, Bendix 6080 and Gec 6080. I'll be using Telefunken c3g/s as drivers which for the purpose of this evaluation, can be considered as Siemens c3g equivalent. Headphones used will primarily be HD800 and Eikon.


Great! I have a pair of Bendix 6080 so I know how they sound. Authoritative comes to mind. One of the hard hitting non-6BL7/6BX7 power tubes I have rolled on my Darna.


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Infinity said:


> Great plan Glenn! Guess my parts will only be with you in Feb?



I have all the parts and the chassis but the transformers I am waiting fore.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Glenn's amps tend to be bad for your health with too much late night listening sessions lol



I found this out now.... since the 12th Dec I've been listening to music using Glenn's super OTL ..... listening like a man on fire. 

And I've been reading this thread from about the time Musicman69 got his 300b, then Leftside got his 300b, then Whirlwind got his GEL3N. That was quite an explosive few months.


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> Yll
> 
> And I am in LA at the moment, 12 C. I can't connect with all this F you are talking about. Further, I have been struggling to understand how fast mph is. I thought 70 was slow.



70 mph is 112 KPH so don't do it unless you are on the highway


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Great! I have a pair of Bendix 6080 so I know how they sound. Authoritative comes to mind. One of the hard hitting non-6BL7/6BX7 power tubes I have rolled on my Darna.



I started listening using GEC 6080 last night. 10 songs each on HD800 then repeat on Eikon. Then I moved onto Bendix 6080wb. Now I'm on GEC 6as7g. All the while using Telefunken c3g/s as drivers. I'll summarise a few days later because I want to repeat this several times. 

I'll just say this for now. Glenn's OTL amp sounds crazily good with these tubes.


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 28, 2017)

lukeap69 said:


> Yll
> 
> And I am in LA at the moment, 12 C. I can't connect with all this F you are talking about. Further, I have been struggling to understand how fast mph is. I thought 70 was slow.



Ok this is not fair because I'm as hot as an oven baked potato now and the worst of Summer's heat is yet to come.

Here in Australia, the max speed limit is 110 kph. Go faster than that and your Ferrari will be impounded and you can drive a VW Beetle around for New Year's day. Or worst still, you have to catch the train.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I sent you  pm  were to get them at that price and he has other tubes like 6F8G cheep.



Oh thanks Glenn for the link. Thank you indeed.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Oh thanks Glenn for the link. Thank you indeed.



I just bought some 1633s and other tubes
If you look he has 5998s for $20 don't know what he charges to ship to AU.

I wish I was hot I hate the cold want to trade places.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> If you look he has 5998s for $20 don't know what he charges to ship to AU.



5998 for $20? Don't tease me. I'll row a boat to get it.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Thanks for your feedback mate and I don't mean to start an amp war. I was only jesting.  Will look forward to your final summary.



No worries I took it as such!    Just wanted to provide a little update on Scarlett.  Amp Wars: The Last Triode


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 28, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> 5998 for $20? Don't tease me. I'll row a boat to get it.



Allot of rowing for you to get to Florida USA.
May have just ordered all he had not sure though.
Might as well put in a order he is open now just paid him and he will ship by
the end of the day.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Allot of rowing for you to get to Florida USA.
> May have just ordered all he had not sure though.
> Might as well put in a order he is open now just paid him and he will ship by
> the end of the day.


Wow!  That's below dirt cheap, they must be used?


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> Wow!  That's below dirt cheap, they must be used?



No he don't sell used tubes. That is were you bought your EL3Ns from I think.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> I just bought some 1633s and other tubes
> If you look he has 5998s for $20 don't know what he charges to ship to AU.
> 
> I wish I was hot I hate the cold want to trade places.



Can you PM the link Glenn? Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

I put in an order for four 5998. Let's hope I get a reply and it is really 5998. Is there another 5998? It can't be so cheap for a new 5998.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I put in an order for four 5998. Let's hope I get a reply and it is really 5998. Is there another 5998? It can't be so cheap for a new 5998.



Yes it can.
I bought some for $20
Just spent $300 on tubes from him today.


----------



## UntilThen

Stan replied and said 5998 out of stock at this time. Will buy other tubes.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Stan replied and said 5998 out of stock at this time. Will buy other tubes.


LOL He told me you just contacted him.

BTW, he don't have the "normal" hot tubes in stock now (5998, 6F8G, TS 6SN7GT BGRP etc.). So don't get your hope s up too high.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> No he don't sell used tubes. That is were you bought your EL3Ns from I think.


Well I spoke with him but ended up buying 8 EL3Ns (low hours) from a seller on epay.  That's the private seller who was high on shipping and I got him to lower it.


----------



## ru4music (Dec 28, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I put in an order for four 5998. Let's hope I get a reply and it is really 5998. Is there another 5998? It can't be so cheap for a new 5998.


There is,  the 5998A which is more like the 6080 bulb type.  @2359glenn are your sure these are the domino plate ST type 5998s (e.g. original Chatham/ Tung Sol 2399/ 5998)?  I don't have any interest in buying more at the moment but I thought I should toss out this info.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Hi Joe
> You might want to put those socks on this morning very cold here cant imagine how cold it is in Ohio
> 16 F here -16 F in New York were our kids live. My daughter was smart and moved to Florida 60 F.




No kidding, it was 3 F when I left to go to work, it is this time of the year, Jan-Feb that I ask myself, what in the heck are you doing here!

Your daughter has the right idea.  60 F  would be so welcome right now, I got stiff just getting my butt to the garage to get in the car!


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 28, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I started listening using GEC 6080 last night. 10 songs each on HD800 then repeat on Eikon. Then I moved onto Bendix 6080wb. Now I'm on GEC 6as7g. All the while using Telefunken c3g/s as drivers. I'll summarise a few days later because I want to repeat this several times.
> 
> I'll just say this for now. Glenn's OTL amp sounds crazily good with these tubes.




Great  power tubes to be using in your test...they will all sound great , probably all of my favorite power tubes.

Man, I can't hardly keep up with the thread, LOL


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Yll
> 
> And I am in LA at the moment, 12 C. I can't connect with all this F you are talking about. Further, I have been struggling to understand how fast mph is. I thought 70 was slow.



 Ha ha,  watch your speed Arnold!    I hope you are having a wonderful time here in the states.

Right now, you picking to go to L.A.  instead of N.Y.  this time of year...you are a Genius


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> I have all the parts and the chassis but the transformers I am waiting fore.



Great! I hope the Swedes deliver in time!


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> No kidding, it was 3 F when I left to go to work, it is this time of the year, Jan-Feb that I ask myself, what in the heck are you doing here!
> 
> Your daughter has the right idea.  60 F  would be so welcome right now, I got stiff just getting my butt to the garage to get in the car!



Down to -10 F a few days back here in Nebraska and it's forecast -17 F on New Years day.

I vote we set up an amp exchange program with the folks down-under; 300Bs to the U.S. and EL3Ns to Oz during our winter (their summer) and vise versa!  What do think Oz land?


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> Down to -10 F a few days back here in Nebraska and it's forecast -17 F on New Years day.
> 
> I vote we set up an amp exchange program with the folks down-under; 300Bs to the U.S. and EL3Ns to Oz during our winter (their summer) and vise versa!  What do think Oz land?




That is cold.

I would not even want to take the trash out!


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Ha ha,  watch your speed Arnold!    I hope you are having a wonderful time here in the states.
> 
> Right now, you picking to go to L.A.  instead of N.Y.  this time of year...you are a Genius



Thanks Joe. I was driving quite slow until Glenn and Matt bought all the 5998s.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Thanks Joe. I was driving quite slow until Glenn and Matt bought all the 5998s.



Ha ha....maybe you should have picked Florida   

If those are the 5998 tubes with the domino plates, they have hit the jack pot!

I have never heard the 5998A tubes.

One thing for sure, the tubes will be NOS from this seller.


----------



## lukeap69

Glenn, Matt

Any chance you wanted to donate a pair of 5998 to a poor boy like me?


----------



## gibosi

Haven't seen any rectifier pics here in awhile, so figured I should do something about that. 




This is an N.V. Ratron AZ12. It was manufactured sometime between 1941 and 1945 in Beek-Ubbergen, Holland, for the German armed forces. It sounds quite similar to the Telefunken AZ12, but the mids are bit more forward and it's usually less expensive.

Again, the AZ12 provides at most 200ma, so it is not mighty enough run the GOTL with a pair of 6AS7G or six 6BL7. However, when used with efficient headphones in a four-6BL7 configuration, the AZ12 is more than adequate. And of course, it is also suitable in the GEL3N. A very nice rectifier.


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> There is,  the 5998A which is more like the 6080 bulb type.  @2359glenn are your sure these are the domino plate ST type 5998s (e.g. original Chatham/ Tung Sol 2399/ 5998)?  I don't have any interest in buying more at the moment but I thought I should toss out this info.



The ones I bought were domino plate but I don't know what he has now or in the future.
I am not a fan of the 5998 anyway.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Haven't seen any rectifier pics here in awhile, so figured I should do something about that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you Rectifier King, I'm crazy about rectifier too thanks to you 
Let me know if you spot some cheep 45IU tubes. The inflation for this tubes is very high


----------



## gibosi

Yeah, unfortunately 45IU are not at all common on eBay, and worse, the price keeps going up. But for sure, if I come across a good deal, will let you know.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Yeah, unfortunately 45IU are not at all common on eBay, and worse, the price keeps going up. But for sure, if I come across a good deal, will let you know.



Thanks Ken

Santa just sent me a u18/20 yesterday
I will test it out tonight


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Thanks Ken
> 
> Santa just sent me a u18/20 yesterday
> I will test it out tonight



And the rectifier on the right appears to be a British Tungsram FW4-500. Is this yours? And if so, what do you think of it?


----------



## jekjek

Yes it is.
Compared to u52 is less warm. Very clear midrange and less mid bass

It is OK rectifier. But once you have tasted 53KU there is no way back


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Yes it is.
> Compared to u52 is less warm. Very clear midrange and less mid bass
> 
> It is OK rectifier. But once you have tasted 53KU there is no way back



My impressions are similar. It reminds me of the British Tungsram 6SN7GT....


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> The ones I bought were domino plate but I don't know what he has now or in the future.
> I am not a fan of the 5998 anyway.



 thanks for sharing with the thread!


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> My impressions are similar. It reminds me of the British Tungsram 6SN7GT....


It gets boring after a while but its very good for movie


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 29, 2017)

Since we are talking rectifiers.  This arrived from Santa today.

  

  


Sounds great...really nice imaging and sweet mids.

Glenn, is the voltage drop for this 350 ?


----------



## leftside

jekjek said:


> Yes it is.
> Compared to u52 is less warm. Very clear midrange and less mid bass
> 
> It is OK rectifier. But once you have tasted 53KU there is no way back


Agreed.


----------



## jelt2359

2359glenn said:


> I know waiting to build his amp for a year now crazy. I hope he didn't pay for them yet *starting to wonder if we will ever get them.*
> Cold here this morning -9C plan on staying in the house building amps.



LOL, don't scare me!!!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I have not listened to this amp for quite some time, and the first thought that come to my head was the same thought when I first listened to it with the HD800.
> 
> Man, this amp drives this headphone with some serious authority.



My thoughts too. There's synergy between Glenn's OTL and HD800. The best I've heard HD800 sound so far.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Glenn, Matt
> 
> Any chance you wanted to donate a pair of 5998 to a poor boy like me?



Sorry, I didn't get any from Stan. He's out of stock on 5998.

I do have 4 NOS 5998 and I'm not letting it go. C3g and 5998 on Glenn's OTL amp is a dynamite combination and needs to be experienced.


----------



## UntilThen

In Nov 2016, Jelt and some of his friends sat down to listen to some of his best amps and came away with some surprises. Namely Glenn's OTL amp and GEL3N. Check out their findings.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dna-stratus-2a3-amplifier-first-impressions.609800/page-208


----------



## UntilThen

By now I've stepped through Gec 6080, Bendix 6080, Gec 6as7g and Tung Sol 5998 on Glenn's OTL amp. HD800 and Eikon sounds great with all those tubes. It's the best I've heard those headphones sound and I'm about to come full circle by going back to 6 x 6BX7. c3g/s has been the drivers all this while.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> By now I've stepped through Gec 6080, Bendix 6080, Gec 6as7g and Tung Sol 5998 on Glenn's OTL amp. HD800 and Eikon sounds great with all those tubes. It's the best I've heard those headphones sound and I'm about to come full circle by going back to 6 x 6BX7. c3g/s has been the drivers all this while.



Looking forward to your notes on these, especially GEC 6AS7G and TS 5998.
How are you running the 5998s, with 5998 bias switch on?


----------



## UntilThen

I've only use the 5998 boost switch one time and that was with quad 5998. I need to revisit that again but first I'll try with a pair of 5998 boosted because 4 is a luxury especially in the days of the Last Triodes as ru4music says.


----------



## 2359glenn

Listening to my latest EL3N amp using a GZ37 rectifier.
This sounds so good driving my closed back phones.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Listening to my latest EL3N amp using a GZ37 rectifier.
> This sounds so good driving my closed back phones.



Nice ! I'm listening to my OTL amp using GEC B36 and a pair of Tung Sol 5998 boosted. This amp sounds really good with my headphones. There are so many good drivers and power tubes, it's hard to decide what to use. What a dilemma.


----------



## UntilThen

Last listen of La Figaro 339, Ragnarok and Glenn OTL amp before I dismantle the first 2. I'm on a good dose of classic rock tunes of Pink Floyd and Dire Straits with some Melody Gardot, Randy Crawford, Diana Krall, Katie Melua, Holly Cole and Neil Young. I think I know those songs by hard now.

Both La Figaro 339 and Ragnarok produce very high standards of SQ and musicality but the Glenn OTL amp is a lesson in transparency, instruments separation and infectious bass. GOTL dynamics is a stand out. 

Now to roll in the turntable for some vinyl love.


----------



## 2359glenn

You haven't listened with vinyl yet?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Listening to my latest EL3N amp using a GZ37 rectifier.
> This sounds so good driving my closed back phones.



You have another amp built already.

This calls for some pics, when you get time.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You haven't listened with vinyl yet?



Save the best for the last. 

Vinyl and tube amps are made for each other. Like 2 peas in a pod.


----------



## 2359glenn

OK tomorrow it is getting late here.

What do you use for a phono preamp


----------



## UntilThen

My phono preamp is the Avid Pellar which I bought from Len Wallis in Sydney. The salesman took me into the demo room wherein there were some serious listeners. Facing them were a pair of B&W 802 D3. An Avid turntable was playing and the phono preamp used was the Avid Pellar. So I told the salesman, please take my money and give me the Avid Pellar - now. !


----------



## UntilThen

That green double vinyl is War On Drugs 'A Deeper Understanding' special edition version. Cost me a week's breakfast.


----------



## 2359glenn

Nice


----------



## UntilThen

Some work involved to keep the vinyl pops and crackles free. I have an Ultra Sonic Cleaning machine and a vacuum cleaner. This 2 stage process works wonders.


----------



## UntilThen

Finn doesn't understand why I'm so preoccupied with my music so he just sits there and stare at me.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> Finn doesn't understand why I'm so preoccupied with my music so he just sits there and stare at me.



Is that Finn (number FN-2187) from Amp Wars: The Last Triode?


----------



## UntilThen

The day I got my Rega RP8 home 3 months after I got Yggdrasil and find it more resolving and more musical, that's the day I cross to the dark side and Finn could well be the last doggy.


----------



## whirlwind

Finn is a cutie.


----------



## leftside (Dec 29, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Some work involved to keep the vinyl pops and crackles free. I have an Ultra Sonic Cleaning machine and a vacuum cleaner. This 2 stage process works wonders.


Very interesting! I just checked out that ultrasonic cleaner. Very cheap - especially compared to other ones I've seen. I use two spin clean record washers (one to wash, one to rinse) and then a VPI HW-17 for a final vacuum rinse. I'm going to have to try one of these ultra sonic cleaning machines.

Which do you use first? Ultra sonic or vacuum? If I get one of these ultra sonics, perhaps I could also use it with the HW-17. edit: Ok I see - vacuum after ultra sonic.

Listening with headphones, I'm very particular about the vinyl I listen to. It must be in as new shape and very clean.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Very interesting! I just checked out that ultrasonic cleaner. Very cheap - especially compared to other ones I've seen. I use two spin clean record washers (one to wash, one to rinse) and then a VPI HW-17 for a final vacuum rinse. I'm going to have to try one of these ultra sonic cleaning machines.
> 
> Which do you use first? Ultra sonic or vacuum? If I get one of these ultra sonics, perhaps I could also use it with the HW-17.
> 
> Listening with headphones, I'm very particular about the vinyl I listen to. It must be in as new shape and very clean.



Leftside ! 

I use Ultra Sonic first (up to 6 LPs at a time), then the Record Doctor V to vacuum. Your VPI HW-17 should do a good job of vacuuming it dry too.

This is where I buy my USM from Poland. I got the cheaper model that does not heat the water. There is a higher grade model that does. A temp of 40c is ideal.
http://audiorevita.pl/?page_id=14

I use a tablespoon of Triton X-100 solution mix into the one tub of water. 

I bought this to heat the water manually. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1500W-2500...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

and this to test the water temp....  Pretty hi-tech huh? 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Digita...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Listening with headphones, I'm very particular about the vinyl I listen to. It must be in as new shape and very clean.



Even new LPs benefit from a clean. You will hear the difference. I'm very fussy about my LPs. I bought most of them new or in mint condition.


----------



## leftside

Yes agreed.

I've done some investigating:
http://cleanervinyl.weebly.com/
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/cleanervinyl-ultrasonic-record-cleaner
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Record-V...ltrasonic-Cleaning-Vinyl-Records/311966517996
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-Stainle...ltrasonic-Cleaner-Heater-w-Timer/322321184009

Looks like I can combine all 3 cleaning methods(!)
"I now use a  Chinese 10L US cleaner and a Vinyl Stack.  My process:
Spin Clean, as a pre cleaner to dislodge most of the dirt etc on the LP, blot dry.
US clean using Rushton's formula, at 1/3 rpm / 5 rev in 15min.
Rinse.
Nitty Gritty vacuum dry.  Then inserted into a new MoFi inner sleeve.
I change all fluids after 20 LPs."


----------



## UntilThen

You are doing it right. Wash, rinse and vacuum. All 3 steps are vital. I need another tub for the rinse.  Of course use MoFi inner sleeve. After all that trouble your want the best anti-static sleeve. 

I'm listening to my cleaned LPs from several weeks ago. On a headphone such as the HD800, it's pure bliss. Speakers too. All the details and absence of pops and crackles.


----------



## Rossliew

Wow that’s a lot of hassle just to listen to music..methinks I’ll stick to digital for now


----------



## UntilThen

Wait till you hear 1812 on vinyl.  The cannons will jump at you.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Since we are talking rectifiers.  This arrived from Santa today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The voltage drop is 50 at 125ma current draw. The amp will draw only about 100ma max so this voltage drop will be less.
It might actually be running the EL3Ns more properly. The EL3Ns were used with a wimpier AZ1.
Originally I made the first amp using the AZ1 but people wanted to use 8pin 5volt rectifiers.


----------



## leftside

Rossliew said:


> Wow that’s a lot of hassle just to listen to music..methinks I’ll stick to digital for now


If you head over to Computer Audiophile you'll see some people go through a LOT of hassle to listen to digital music.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The voltage drop is 50 at 125ma current draw. The amp will draw only about 100ma max so this voltage drop will be less.
> It might actually be running the EL3Ns more properly. The EL3Ns were used with a wimpier AZ1.
> Originally I made the first amp using the AZ1 but people wanted to use 8pin 5volt rectifiers.



Thanks Glenn.
It seems to be a wonderful fit, then.

Great imaging and mids, and the amp still keeps it's warmth


----------



## Rossliew

leftside said:


> If you head over to Computer Audiophile you'll see some people go through a LOT of hassle to listen to digital music.


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> Great imaging and mids, and the amp still keeps it's warmth



Hi @whirlwind, Mind if I ask what are some of your favorite rectifiers for the EL3N?


----------



## UntilThen

Startling realism. These 2 paired so well together with HD800. There's a holistic feel when you select an album, flip it in your hand better than a casino blackjack dealer, pull the LP out of it's sleeve, place it on the precision revolving platter, cue the tone arm and lower it, waiting for the stylus to gain contact with the grove. Then music like you've not heard before. Welcome to the nostalgic world of vinyl and tube amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

Here is a pic of my latest EL3N amp with a GZ37 rectifier.
I normally use a 3DG4 they pretty much sound the same but I can get 3DG4s for $4


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> Here is a pic of my latest EL3N amp with a GZ37 rectifier.
> I normally use a 3DG4 they pretty much sound the same but I can get 3DG4s for $4



Wow. That is beautiful. Betcha it sounds good too.
I have the GZ37, and some of those 3DG4s... Now all I need is the GEL3N!
Well done.


----------



## exdmd

Have delivery times improved? I am reading reports on other forums of customers waiting over a year for an amp to be delivered.


----------



## rnros

exdmd said:


> Have delivery times improved? I am reading reports on other forums of customers waiting over a year for an amp to be delivered.



Wrong thread?

But as a general rule, never believe everything you read.  : )


----------



## UntilThen

exdmd said:


> Have delivery times improved? I am reading reports on other forums of customers waiting over a year for an amp to be delivered.



I got my Glenn OTL amp in 2 months 12 days delivered to me from order date. It really depends on how many is in the queue at the time you order. It's worth the wait though.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Here is a pic of my latest EL3N amp with a GZ37 rectifier.



A beautiful looking amp and I love the look of that Mullard rectifier.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Here is a pic of my latest EL3N amp with a GZ37 rectifier.
> I normally use a 3DG4 they pretty much sound the same but I can get 3DG4s for $4



Are you using the bakelite version of the EL3N socket or the NOS European type?  I'm still waiting for my NOS sockets to arrive from Europe (they are past due, sent seller a message.)


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Startling realism. These 2 paired so well together with HD800. There's a holistic feel when you select an album, flip it in your hand better than a casino blackjack dealer, pull the LP out of it's sleeve, place it on the precision revolving platter, cue the tone arm and lower it, waiting for the stylus to gain contact with the grove. Then music like you've not heard before. Welcome to the nostalgic world of vinyl and tube amps.


I really like listening to vinyl through the Glenn amp. My vinyl rig isn't as dynamic or detailed as my DAC, but the airiness of the Glenn really opens up the vinyl music. I quite like to compare the same track played through the DAC and played with vinyl (just need to press a button on the preamp to switch between the two). The differences are quite obvious. Sometimes I prefer the DAC and sometimes I prefer the vinyl...


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I really like listening to vinyl through the Glenn amp. My vinyl rig isn't as dynamic or detailed as my DAC, but the airiness of the Glenn really opens up the vinyl music. I quite like to compare the same track played through the DAC and played with vinyl (just need to press a button on the preamp to switch between the two). The differences are quite obvious. Sometimes I prefer the DAC and sometimes I prefer the vinyl...



I'd imagine your Glenn 300b is something else but the Glenn OTL is really dishing up the goods. My tubes to usher in the New Year is Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with Gec 6as7g. Really pleased with the OTL amp. 

Listening to the 4 LPs Eva Cassidy album now and it's a much better experience than what I hear through Tidal Hifi on Yggdrasil.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Arnold, this is for you but I'm done writing formal impressions. So bear with me as I spin it with a different twist.

*Gec 6080, Bendix 6080wb, Gec 6as7g and Tung Sol 5998 comparison. Telefunken c3g as drivers and headphone is HD800. I'll be brief and to the point.*

When I started listening to Gec 6080, I thought to myself that this is it. So clear, airy and well served in the lower registers. There's nothing lacking. I could stop the comparison then and there and be happy. Then the Bendix rolled in and my eye balls came together. It's like going from seafood to a choice cut rib-eye juicy steak. Open up a bottle of red and you're feasting like a king. The Bendix can pump and move your bowels. This is some meatballs.

Next it's Gec 6as7g and I had a lump in my throat. This is going for the jugular. Surely this is the best sounding power tube on the planet..... and it is. From here on if this is the only powers that be, I'll live happily for the rest of my life. This is linear, it's velvet and satin, it's power and punchy when the music calls for it. I can't fault it.

Reluctantly I have to swap tubes and try out the 5998. More dynamic, less romantic than the Gec 6as7g, this will turn you into a rock and roll star. Is it worth getting the 5998 when you have the Gec 6as7g? Well you ain't a tube connoisseur if you didn't get all 4 of these power tubes.

Finally, it's the 6 x 6BX7's turn at glory. Now I'm on fire and I look in amazement at my OTL amp and wonder how it can sound so wonderful with these budget tubes. So do yourself a favour, get all these tubes and be a tube connoisseur because life is not complete without it.


----------



## lukeap69

Hi Matt

Thanks for this comparison, really helpful. So what the 5998 has compared to the GEC 6AS7 is dynamics. I would love to own a pair of 5998 if only Glenn had not bought all of them! 

Really appreciate your post Matt as I am reading this whilst in LAX waiting to be boarded. Can't wait to be back at home and listen to my Darna again. It's been almost two weeks since I left her alone.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Alright Arnold, this is for you but I'm done writing formal impressions. So bear with me as I spin it with a different twist.
> 
> *Gec 6080, Bendix 6080wb, Gec 6as7g and Tung Sol 5998 comparison. Telefunken c3g as drivers and headphone is HD800. I'll be brief and to the point.*
> 
> ...



Thanks! I was also waiting for that.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I got my Glenn OTL amp in 2 months 12 days delivered to me from order date. It really depends on how many is in the queue at the time you order. It's worth the wait though.



Similar for me, two months plus shipping. 
And kept well informed every step of the way.
Much faster than I expected.


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> Hi @whirlwind, Mind if I ask what are some of your favorite rectifiers for the EL3N?



Of the ones that i have tried so far.
United Electric 596
GEC U18/20
Philco 80 Globe
Loewe Radio AZ12
Telefunken AZ12
GE 3DG4

The above are my favorites so far, everything else i have tried are a notch or two below any of these tubes.
The differences seem subtle, but are there the more you listen.

This amp has never lost its magnificent warmness, no matter what the rectifier tube.


----------



## exdmd

UntilThen said:


> I got my Glenn OTL amp in 2 months 12 days delivered to me from order date. It really depends on how many is in the queue at the time you order. It's worth the wait though.



Thanks two to three months for a custom build is not unreasonable. Not in the market now but will put Glenn on the short list with EC, DNA and ampsandsound.


----------



## lukeap69

exdmd said:


> Thanks two to three months for a custom build is not unreasonable. Not in the market now but will put Glenn on the short list with EC, DNA and ampsandsound.



Please note that Glenn did not ask for any payment until he started building my amp. So it is not like MD where you have to pay then receive your amp after 6mos or so.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Please note that Glenn did not ask for any payment until he started building my amp. So it is not like MD where you have to pay then receive your amp after 6mos or so.



Except where Lundahl transformers and Gold Point attenuator are selected then payments for those needs to be made up front because they cost quite a few quid. I do love the Swedish Lundahl transformers.

This morning, the OTL amp sounds incredibly vibrant. It's either the addition of the vinyl rig, the tubes, the burn in or all of it I believe. The sheer scale and weight of the tone is massive. This amp feels powerful driving Eikon. I'm going to JB HiFi soon to get new copies of Dark Side of the Moon and Wish You Were Here.


----------



## UntilThen

exdmd said:


> Thanks two to three months for a custom build is not unreasonable. Not in the market now but will put Glenn on the short list with EC, DNA and ampsandsound.



You're welcome and good luck with your choices when the time comes. Don't think you will need it because they are all good choices. Glenn's OTL amp far exceeded my expectations. In build and sound, it's right up there with the best.


----------



## gibosi

It's time for another rectifier pic. 



RFT (Rundfunk-und Fernmelde-Technik) manufactured this AZ12 in Röhrenwerk Mühlhausen, a state-owned factory in East Germany in 1952, during the Cold War. After the WWII, RFT took possession of a number of vacuum tube manufacturing facilities previously operated by Telefunken, Loewe Radio and others. This tube was manufactured with old Loewe Radio assembly line equipment installed in an old Lorenz factory building located at Mühlhausen. And thus, the construction strongly resembles a Loewe Radio AZ12 and the sound is also very similar.


----------



## jelt2359

It’s New Year’s Eve, an important decision surely but I’ve decided that I will ring in 2018 with my Glenn OTL amp playing my favourite tunes at midnight in a couple of hours. Hopefully next year I’ll do the same thing but with the GEL3N. 

Hope everyone has a great new year ahead!


----------



## jelt2359

5998,6080,7236 or 6as7, that is the question. 

Also have 6sn7 vs c3g to decide, need to be productive before the clock strikes midnight!


----------



## UntilThen

I'm decided now. This is the 4th change of tubes today. 

When the clock strikes midnight, these will be the tubes in my OTL amp. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6BX7gt. Next year who knows. Maybe GEL3N. Will see.

Happy New Year everyone in advance before I start drinking jungle juice.


----------



## jekjek

Happy new year too!
This is Glenn's recommended setup


 
Brimar 25SN7
U18/20
Powered by GE(without "C") 6AS7GA 
Sounds awesome and will accompany me tonight


----------



## Rossliew

No Glenn amp for me just the Elise. Cheers and happy new year everyone!


----------



## jelt2359

Rossliew said:


> No Glenn amp for me just the Elise. Cheers and happy new year everyone!



Booo


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> It's time for another rectifier pic.
> 
> 
> 
> RFT (Rundfunk-und Fernmelde-Technik) manufactured this AZ12 in Röhrenwerk Mühlhausen, a state-owned factory in East Germany in 1952, during the Cold War. After the WWII, RFT took possession of a number of vacuum tube manufacturing facilities previously operated by Telefunken, Loewe Radio and others. This tube was manufactured with old Loewe Radio assembly line equipment installed in an old Lorenz factory building located at Mühlhausen. And thus, the construction strongly resembles a Loewe Radio AZ12 and the sound is also very similar.



Great info Ken.
This looks to be an AZ12 mesh plate, very nice.


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy New Year everyone


----------



## Sound Trooper

Happy New Year guys!


----------



## whirlwind

Happy New Year Everyone

Matt, drink a jingle juice for me !


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Great info Ken.
> This looks to be an AZ12 mesh plate, very nice.



Yes, it is a mesh plate. And again, while it is not identical to the older Loewe Radio AZ12, manufactured about 10 years earlier on the same assembly line, it is very similar.

RFT on the left and Loewe Radio on the right.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Yes, it is a mesh plate. And again, while it is not identical to the older Loewe Radio AZ12, manufactured about 10 years earlier on the same assembly line, it is very similar.
> 
> RFT on the left and Loewe Radio on the right.


Nice rectifier ken
And nice info


----------



## rosgr63

Happy New Year!!!


----------



## rnros

Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous New Year to everyone!


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> Of the ones that i have tried so far.
> United Electric 596
> GEC U18/20
> Philco 80 Globe
> ...



Thanks! Looking forward to a GEL3N in 2018.
Have a couple of those, will look for some of the others.


----------



## Khragon

Happy new year!!


----------



## lukeap69 (Dec 31, 2017)

Happy new year from Dubai (just got back from LA.)


----------



## UntilThen

Welcome to 2018.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Happy New Year Everyone
> 
> Matt, drink a jingle juice for me !



I'm sure it wasn't jingle juice. That's so last Christmas. Jungle juice though is different. You will feel your head enlarged, so larger soundstage. Pin drop clarity, so you hear everything.

Anyway I did drink one for you.


----------



## Rossliew

Happy blessed New Year everyone!


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Thanks! Looking forward to a GEL3N in 2018.



I'm very keen too even though I think the below setup is a match made in heaven. I can see a GEL3N in my tunnel vision for 2018. It will be a good complement to the OTL amp.

Fact 1:- Glenn OTL amp is 10kgs
Fact 2:- Sylvania 6sn7w metal base lives up to it reputation. X-ray laser clarity (think sweet not shrill), wide soundstage and great slam.
Fact 3:- I love Yggdrasil.
Fact 4:- I love HD800 - now. Eikon is even more enjoyable on this setup.
Fact 5:- Wish you were here.


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy New Year !!!!!!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

Happy New Year!


----------



## UntilThen

Happy New Year and 19 days have passed since getting the OTL amp. This amp is very quiet regardless of the tubes I use. Reading the thread, Glenn seems to suggest running 4 RCA 6as7g in 5998 boosted mode with planar magnetic headphones. I've 2 Svetlana 6H13C and 2 RCA 6as7g with Brimar 13D1 as driver. Switch set to 25 volts and 5998 boost set to on. Using Audeze LCD-2f. Sounds great. 

Could have run with Brimar 13D1 and quad Svetlana 6H13C. Cheap and good. Totally loving this amp now.


----------



## Rossliew

End game amp for you, UT.


----------



## UntilThen

Pretty much. I've not heard anything like it. It's powerful, effortless and holographic. This is the end.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Happy New Year and 19 days have passed since getting the OTL amp. This amp is very quiet regardless of the tubes I use. Reading the thread, Glenn seems to suggest running 4 RCA 6as7g in 5998 boosted mode with planar magnetic headphones. I've 2 Svetlana 6H13C and 2 RCA 6as7g with Brimar 13D1 as driver. Switch set to 25 volts and 5998 boost set to on. Using Audeze LCD-2f. Sounds great.
> 
> Could have run with Brimar 13D1 and quad Svetlana 6H13C. Cheap and good. Totally loving this amp now.



For my ZMF Omni, I would use 6336, 5998, or four  Chatham 6AS7.

Four 6AS7 tubes just seem over kill for high impedance cans.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Happy New Year and 19 days have passed since getting the OTL amp. This amp is very quiet regardless of the tubes I use. Reading the thread, Glenn seems to suggest running 4 RCA 6as7g in 5998 boosted mode with planar magnetic headphones. I've 2 Svetlana 6H13C and 2 RCA 6as7g with Brimar 13D1 as driver. Switch set to 25 volts and 5998 boost set to on. Using Audeze LCD-2f. Sounds great.
> 
> Could have run with Brimar 13D1 and quad Svetlana 6H13C. Cheap and good. Totally loving this amp now.



The 6H13C if a good tube for the price espically if you are going to use 4 of them.
Many people don't like them I feel due to there low price no bragging rights.
Would never use a GEC6AS7 no matter how good it supposedly sounds.
I hate expensive tubes for myself as soon as I can I will be building new speaker amps and get rid of the 300Bs.
The 300B are ridiculously expensive and most are unreliable.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The 6H13C if a good tube for the price espically if you are going to use 4 of them.
> Many people don't like them I feel due to there low price no bragging rights.
> Would never use a GEC6AS7 no matter how good it supposedly sounds.
> I hate expensive tubes for myself as soon as I can I will be building new speaker amps and get rid of the 300Bs.
> The 300B are ridiculously expensive and most are unreliable.



I could not agree with you more Glenn.

The price of the 300B tubes easily steers me far away, and If I used speakers I would want one of your amps, but one that would use cheaper tubes as you are talking about.

The idea that most amps don't use the tubes your amps do makes the tubes very affordable.

Some people get under the impression that if the tube does not cost an arm and a leg that it must not sound good...just not the case.

I brought the New Year in listening to this and I sit here not feeling I am wanting for anything, I feel blessed to be able to listen to digital music that sounds this good.

  




The 80 globe is a fantastic tube..it is one of those tubes that you just feel gets out of the way and lets the other tubes and the music do their thing.

The warmness of this amp will just melt your heart...I describe it as warm and dynamic and warm in a very special way.

I am listening in one tube mode and you can see the volume pot is about at 1 or 2 o'clock

I could leave this rectifier in for good and be very satisfied.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I could not agree with you more Glenn.
> 
> The price of the 300B tubes easily steers me far away, and If I used speakers I would want one of your amps, but one that would use cheaper tubes as you are talking about.
> 
> ...



And it looks cool too I also have a 80 mesh plate that looks great used to have it in my preamp but decided to save it.
Replaced it with a 5Z3 as my preamp has a 4 pin rectifier socket. Most of my globe 80s are in restored old radios..

I only make 300B amps due to request I only push the OTL and EL3N amps.
Just bought more EL3N tubes from Stan he still has them for $20.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> The 6H13C if a good tube for the price espically if you are going to use 4 of them.
> Many people don't like them I feel due to there low price no bragging rights.
> Would never use a GEC6AS7 no matter how good it supposedly sounds.
> I hate expensive tubes for myself as soon as I can I will be building new speaker amps and get rid of the 300Bs.
> The 300B are ridiculously expensive and most are unreliable.



 New speaker amp with cheap tubes would be awesome. I hope it will be able to drive KEF LS50's.


----------



## lukeap69 (Jan 1, 2018)

dp.


----------



## lukeap69 (Jan 1, 2018)

tp.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> And it looks cool too I also have a 80 mesh plate that looks great used to have it in my preamp but decided to save it.
> Replaced it with a 5Z3 as my preamp has a 4 pin rectifier socket. Most of my globe 80s are in restored old radios..
> 
> I only make 300B amps due to request I only push the OTL and EL3N amps.
> Just bought more EL3N tubes from Stan he still has them for $20.


Stan from esrc?
He quote me for $40 piece
You must be his special customer


----------



## whirlwind

Jason, ask Stan if he has any EL3N tubes left, that the paint is chipping off


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Jason, ask Stan if he has any EL3N tubes left, that the paint is chipping off



Yes ask for ones with the paint chipping off they are 1/2 price.  And all of them will stat looseing paint after awhile these tubes are 70 years old.
So it don't pay to get the expensive ones when they will be chipping off anyway.


----------



## whirlwind

My wife got me a 4TB external hard drive so I can back up the 2700 digital albums that I have on my PC hard drives.

I can't stop listening to music long enough to even open the box and format the hard drive


----------



## gibosi (Jan 1, 2018)

Happy New Year! 

And now a tale of two Telefunkens

On the left, an AZ12 manufctured in Berlin, Jan 1942, and on the right, a WE56 manufactured in Milan, Italy, Nov 1942.




The WE56 is electrically identical to the AZ12. The only real difference is the base. The WE56 has the European side-contact base and the AZ12 has the German Steel Y8A base. And I wonder if perhaps the German Steel Y8A base was the default in pre-war Germany and the European side-contact base was the default in Italy?

I was also curious to discover if the WE56 was actually manufactured in Milan, or if it was assembled and evacuated in Berlin and shipped to Milan where it was simply fitted with a side-contact base and labeled. Now that I have one in hand, compared to a Berlin-made Telefunken AZ12 manufactured at about the same time, the plates, filaments, mica supports, getter holder and glass press all show the effects of different tooling, and I am inclined to believe that the WE56 was actually manufactured in Milan from locally sourced components.

Considering that these two rectifiers were manufactured in different factories located in different countries, of course, I was curious to compare their sound. But after spending about an hour listening to both of these rectifiers, I am not able to discern any significant sonic differences. And to my mind this suggests that even though these two factories were located about 1000 km apart, Telefunken command and control was very strong. After all, Telefunken personnel designed, fabricated, installed and operated these assembly lines in parallel, and as a result, in terms of sonics, these rectifiers are indistinguishable.

Given that Telefunken WE56 are not all that common, I suggest that for those interested in 4-volt rectifiers, Telefunken AZ12 are much easier to find and can often be picked up relatively inexpensively.

Further, for those with the GEL3N, Whirlwind tells me that the Telefunken AZ12 complements these tubes wonderfully. And in my own experience, in a GOTL, the Telefunken AZ12 and embossed Lorenz C3g are a match made in heaven.


----------



## jekjek

Thanks guys
I will order some tubes from him


----------



## mordy

lukeap69 said:


> New speaker amp with cheap tubes would be awesome. I hope it will be able to drive KEF LS50's.


Hi Lukeap69,

KEF LS50? How about ELAC B6 speakers? According to some reviews just as good or better, for a fraction of the price ~ around $200/pair on sale.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> The 6H13C if a good tube for the price espically if you are going to use 4 of them.
> Many people don't like them I feel due to there low price no bragging rights.
> Would never use a GEC6AS7 no matter how good it supposedly sounds.
> I hate expensive tubes for myself as soon as I can I will be building new speaker amps and get rid of the 300Bs.
> The 300B are ridiculously expensive and most are unreliable.


Hi 2359glenn,

I was thrilled to see your comment about expensive tubes, and I couldn't agree with you more. There is definitively such a sentiment out there that if it is really cheap, it cannot be good....
I came across a bargain driver tube, the Foton 6N8S, which can be found for $3 shipped. There are different version from different years at different price points, but none that are expensive. At the moment my favorite drivers are the 1953 Foton 6N8S with ribbed anodes which cost me less than $10 shipped.
I'd love to hear from others who have tried this tube, but "if it is really cheap, it cannot be good...."- no takers that I know of so far....


----------



## lukeap69

mordy said:


> Hi Lukeap69,
> 
> KEF LS50? How about ELAC B6 speakers? According to some reviews just as good or better, for a fraction of the price ~ around $200/pair on sale.


Hi Mordy

I already have a pair of LS50 and have no plan of replacing them. Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> For my ZMF Omni, I would use 6336, 5998, or four  Chatham 6AS7.
> 
> Four 6AS7 tubes just seem over kill for high impedance cans.



I'm listening with four 6as7 now with Atticus. Or rather 2 x Svetlana 6h13c and 2 x Rca 6as7g. It's magnificently full 'body'.  Audeze LCD-2f sounds just as gorgeous on this setup. Now it's harder to decide which 2 of my headphones to get rid of. I think I will keep it all.

Volume is at 1pm for this magnificently gorgeous full body tone.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The 6H13C if a good tube for the price espically if you are going to use 4 of them.
> Many people don't like them I feel due to there low price no bragging rights.
> Would never use a GEC6AS7 no matter how good it supposedly sounds.
> I hate expensive tubes for myself as soon as I can I will be building new speaker amps and get rid of the 300Bs.
> The 300B are ridiculously expensive and most are unreliable.



I'll be buying another quad 6H13C. Or maybe it's the combination of the Svetlana 6h13c and Rca 6as7g that is titillating my senses. 

I'll be keeping the GEC 6as7g for the next chapter of Star Wars - The Last 6as7.


----------



## UntilThen

jekjek said:


> Thanks guys
> I will order some tubes from him



I buy all my EL3Ns from Peter of http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/. Just wrote to him recently and he told me he still have lots of NOS NIB Philips Miniwatt EL3Ns in original boxes. His prices are 20.65 euro ex VAT and 25 euro incl VAT.


----------



## mordy

lukeap69 said:


> Hi Mordy
> 
> I already have a pair of LS50 and have no plan of replacing them. Thanks.


Hi l69,

From all I have read the LS50 are wonderful speakers that even experienced reviewers can stay with forever. I did not imply anything about changing speakers - the Elac is not better, just similar. My only point is that sometimes there are excellent alternatives at a reasonable price. 
I had my eyes on the LS50 for a long time but was lucky to find this alternative that I enjoy every day. 

The main thing is to enjoy the music.


----------



## UntilThen (Jan 1, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> The 80 globe is a fantastic tube..it is one of those tubes that you just feel gets out of the way and lets the other tubes and the music do their thing.
> 
> The warmness of this amp will just melt your heart...I describe it as warm and dynamic and warm in a very special way.



Joe thanks for 2 really nice photos of GEL3N. I can relate to your descriptions of the EL3N tone because I spend considerable time with the EL3N tubes. I love it. 

Where can I buy a 80 globe? It's beautiful.

Oh don't worry. Just saw lots on ebay.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Joe thanks for 2 really nice photos of GEL3N. I can relate to your descriptions of the EL3N tone because I spend considerable time with the EL3N tubes. I love it.
> 
> Where can I buy a 80 globe? It's beautiful.
> 
> Oh don't worry. Just saw lots on ebay.




Yes, they are sort of at the opposite end of the spectrum when compared to the C3g tubes...still very dynamic, but a much warmer tone, a touch holographic and just a bit of bloom, but in a good way.

Santa sent me my 80 globe, but yes e-bay should have some listed.


----------



## Mfalcon

lukeap69 said:


> Hi Mordy
> 
> I already have a pair of LS50 and have no plan of replacing them. Thanks.



These LS50s are some of the best speakers I’ve heard less than 1k$ and frankly as good as most small speakers at any price but I don’t think they would work with SETs.  They probably need more than 20 watts at least.
Fantastic speakers for there size no doubt though.


----------



## jelt2359

UntilThen said:


> I'll be buying another quad 6H13C. Or maybe it's the combination of the Svetlana 6h13c and Rca 6as7g that is titillating my senses.
> 
> I'll be keeping the GEC 6as7g for the next chapter of Star Wars - The Last 6as7.



How do you combine the svet and the rca?


----------



## UntilThen

jelt2359 said:


> How do you combine the svet and the rca?



RCA on the last row. Svet on the 2nd row.


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> I buy all my EL3Ns from Peter of http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/. Just wrote to him recently and he told me he still have lots of NOS NIB Philips Miniwatt EL3Ns in original boxes. His prices are 20.65 euro ex VAT and 25 euro incl VAT.


Thank you UT, 
I'm still thinking if i want to the EL3N from Glenn


----------



## gibosi

jelt2359 said:


> How do you combine the svet and the rca?



If your GOTL has only two slots for output tubes, like mine, then you can use 6BL7 to 6AS7 adapters to run a quad of 6AS7.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> The WE56 is electrically identical to the AZ12. The only real difference is the base. The WE56 has the European side-contact base and the AZ12 has the German Steel Y8A base. And I wonder if perhaps the German Steel Y8A base was the default in pre-war Germany and the European side-contact base was the default in Italy?


According to https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/the_philips_red_valves_series_part_i.html, Telefunken really pushed for their own steel design in Germany.


----------



## UntilThen

I've to eat my bandanas now. I pop in my Marconi B36 as drivers. It's foreign made. No idea where. It could well be in Kathmandu. Doesn't matter. Power tubes used is a pair of el cheapo Svetlana 6h13c. And the sound? It's sexier than Scartlett Johansson. The OTL amp never fail to amaze me. Feed it any tubes and it has a mind of it's own and just churn out sweet melodies. There's bite to the tone.


----------



## UntilThen

Cheap tubes not only sound good they look good too !!!


----------



## Rossliew

I don’t have the GOTL anymore but I just had a listen with my Elise running 6 EL3N. Goodness what a good pairing with my Grados! The old GOTL I had was also very synergistic with Grados. OTL and Grados must be lovers in their previous life


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I've to eat my bandanas now. I pop in my Marconi B36 as drivers. It's foreign made. No idea where. It could well be in Kathmandu. Doesn't matter. Power tubes used is a pair of el cheapo Svetlana 6h13c. And the sound? It's sexier than Scartlett Johansson. The OTL amp never fail to amaze me. Feed it any tubes and it has a mind of it's own and just churn out sweet melodies. There's bite to the tone.



I seem to recall that we thought that your "foreign made" B36 is in fact a Fivre 6SN7GT.


----------



## DaemonSire (Jan 2, 2018)

I'm debating between a Decware CSP3 and Glenn OTL.  Has anyone heard both and can compare?

Also, what is the order process and prices?  Does Glenn make other OTL amps or is it just the one?  I must say, I want UntilThen's amp...


----------



## Rossliew

DaemonSire said:


> I'm debating between a Decware CSP3 and Glenn OTL.  Has anyone heard both and can compare?
> 
> Also, what is the order process and prices?  Does GLenn make other OTL amps or is it just the one?  I must say, I want UntilThen's amp...


Just PM Glenn here and discuss with him your specifications. I would say get the OTL, you won't be disappointed. You just need to be patient for the build to complete.


----------



## DaemonSire

Rossliew said:


> Just PM Glenn here and discuss with him your specifications. I would say get the OTL, you won't be disappointed. You just need to be patient for the build to complete.


Thanks, I'll check that out.

Interesting comment on the OTL with Grados.  I'm surprised they match up well.  I've been thinking of a Glenn OTL/CSP3 to go with my HD800 and (future) Atticus.  I was going to keep my MAD Ear+ HD for my Grados but now I'm curious if I can get away with just the GOTL.


----------



## Rossliew

The GOTL is flexible and unlike most other OTLs commercially built and sold. The GOTL has muscle


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> I seem to recall that we thought that your "foreign made" B36 is in fact a Fivre 6SN7GT.


I love Fivre. They also have tubes marked A.M.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi 2359glenn,
> 
> I was thrilled to see your comment about expensive tubes, and I couldn't agree with you more. There is definitively such a sentiment out there that if it is really cheap, it cannot be good....
> I came across a bargain driver tube, the Foton 6N8S, which can be found for $3 shipped. There are different version from different years at different price points, but none that are expensive. At the moment my favorite drivers are the 1953 Foton 6N8S with ribbed anodes which cost me less than $10 shipped.
> I'd love to hear from others who have tried this tube, but "if it is really cheap, it cannot be good...."- no takers that I know of so far....



Yes, have tried some of the Foton 6N8S, it's been a while but I remember they were solid performers, a little more emphasis in the upper bass/low mids but otherwise natural/neutral across the FR with good top and bottom extension and control. Purchased the '58 first, then '59, then one of the early '60s. Good quality also, not many noisy or microphonic tubes in any batch, maybe 10%, or less. Did prefer some of the better American counterparts from the same time period (GTBs), but some others that I shared these with preferred the Fotons. Agree, good value, I recall $6, in batches of 4 or 8. Never saw or heard the early '50s, however, so your '53s with ribbed plates may be better than the late '50s, which I think have smooth plates.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> I seem to recall that we thought that your "foreign made" B36 is in fact a Fivre 6SN7GT.



I wouldn't have a clue if they are Fivre but it's a B36 - a 12sn7 equivalent. I run mine with the switch at 12.6 volt. My experience with Fivre tubes have always been positive. I have Fivre 6A6, 6N7G, 6BX7. All great sounding tubes.

I've not done a comparison with the Marconi B36 metal base. Too much to digest now. I'm just enjoying music as I go.


----------



## UntilThen

DaemonSire said:


> I'm debating between a Decware CSP3 and Glenn OTL.  Has anyone heard both and can compare?
> 
> Also, what is the order process and prices?  Does Glenn make other OTL amps or is it just the one?  I must say, I want UntilThen's amp...



I want my amp too. 

I haven't heard a Decware CSP3 so I cannot comment on it. However I will summarise what I like about the Glenn OTL tone. Ross is correct in saying it has muscles. The first thing that stood out on the GOTL is the bass. It's solid, weighty and very controlled. Not bloomy and not too tight. However that is putting too much emphasis on the bass because the mids and treble are just as engaging. It's pretty seamless. Mids has a focus. Vocals are really good. Treble has extension and control. It's never tiring on the ears. Depth of soundstage is special too. It's deep. Lastly, instruments separation is exemplary. 

I've owned a few OTL amps but Glenn's OTL is the best I've heard. This is a keeper for sure.


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> Yes, have tried some of the Foton 6N8S, it's been a while but I remember they were solid performers, a little more emphasis in the upper bass/low mids but otherwise natural/neutral across the FR with good top and bottom extension and control. Purchased the '58 first, then '59, then one of the early '60s. Good quality also, not many noisy or microphonic tubes in any batch, maybe 10%, or less. Did prefer some of the better American counterparts from the same time period (GTBs), but some others that I shared these with preferred the Fotons. Agree, good value, I recall $6, in batches of 4 or 8. Never saw or heard the early '50s, however, so your '53s with ribbed plates may be better than the late '50s, which I think have smooth plates.


Hi mros,

I have some 60's Fotons and I agree with your impression - solid performer and a little bass heavy.
However, the older early 50's Fotons with the ribbed anodes sound better and are my current favorites.


----------



## attmci

Turn down the volume of your amp my friends .*If you can hear the sound being delivered into a person's ear via headphones or earphones, it indicates the sound is too loud and over an extended period can lead to permanent hearing loss.

https://medicine.stonybrookmedicine...-permanent-hearing-loss-what-you-need-to-know*


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Turn down the volume of your amp my friends .*If you can hear the sound being delivered into a person's ear via headphones or earphones, it indicates the sound is too loud and over an extended period can lead to permanent hearing loss.
> 
> https://medicine.stonybrookmedicine...-permanent-hearing-loss-what-you-need-to-know*


Hi attmciverizon,

Reading your post makes me nervous. All the people using the same headphone amp that I have report using volume settings of 9-10 o'clock, but I have to use 11-12 o'clock settings to get satisfactory volume.
Is this age related (I am 71) or am I suffering from hearing loss from too loud listening? 

The following is a joke: _"I am 71 years old, but I am not the least embarrassed to admit it since I was born 83 years ago."
_
Anyhow, I hope that my hearing loss is age related......


----------



## rnros

DaemonSire said:


> I'm debating between a Decware CSP3 and Glenn OTL.  Has anyone heard both and can compare?
> 
> Also, what is the order process and prices?  Does Glenn make other OTL amps or is it just the one?  I must say, I want UntilThen's amp...



Have not heard the CSP3, but it is one of the amps I considered, along with the Taboo and others. The CSP3 is highly regarded, so I'm sure it's a great sounding amp. I went with the 3X6 GOTL because of the increased tube rolling options and power capability, and of course, the reviews of a clean transparent SQ that is consistent across a range of headphone impedance.

I already had a LOT of driver tubes, so just looking at the driver options for each:
-CSP3 has a single noval driver socket than can handle (at least) 600mA heater current (6N1P), which should also be able to handle an octal driver with the same heater mA with the appropriate adapter.
-GOTL uses an octal socket for the single twin triode driver. IMHO, the noval options do not equal the SQ level of the octal options. Also, you can use an adapter to make use of your noval tubes. GOTL also has sockets for the C3g driver. Great tube, you can do a little research in this thread.

Also no comparison between the two amps and the power tube options. This GOTL version has 6 octal sockets with a 10A total heater current capability.
And, if you want even more sound options, you can go with tube rectifiers, allowing you to further change FR profiles and soundstage qualities.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi mros,
> 
> I have some 60's Fotons and I agree with your impression - solid performer and a little bass heavy.
> However, the older early 50's Fotons with the ribbed anodes sound better and are my current favorites.



Well then, I'll have to look for some of the early '50s also.
Thanks, but LOL I already have too many tubes!


----------



## attmci (Jan 2, 2018)

Mordddy, you may try to use a software on your phone, called sound meter, to test.

Mine is <80dB.


----------



## whirlwind

DaemonSire said:


> Thanks, I'll check that out.
> 
> Interesting comment on the OTL with Grados.  I'm surprised they match up well.  I've been thinking of a Glenn OTL/CSP3 to go with my HD800 and (future) Atticus.  I was going to keep my MAD Ear+ HD for my Grados but now I'm curious if I can get away with just the GOTL.




Funny that you mention the MAD Ear + HD for your Grados.

I cut my teeth on Grado headphones, LOL.

I bought A MAD Ear + HD for my RS1 headphone and it was a killer match as far as synergy goes....even though you would not think of an OTL amp as a good match for a 32 ohm headphone, it works quite well with the right tubes. 
The GEL3N sounds very nice also.

I have an RS1 that I won't part with, just because Grado is the best low level listening headphone that I have come across yet...at low volume the detail is amazing and the mids are to die for....just a tad light on the bottom end, but what is there is great quality bass.
i always describe the bass as, it gets the job done, then gets out of the way of the lovely mids


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Very interesting! I just checked out that ultrasonic cleaner. Very cheap - especially compared to other ones I've seen. I use two spin clean record washers (one to wash, one to rinse) and then a VPI HW-17 for a final vacuum rinse. I'm going to have to try one of these ultra sonic cleaning machines.
> 
> Which do you use first? Ultra sonic or vacuum? If I get one of these ultra sonics, perhaps I could also use it with the HW-17. edit: Ok I see - vacuum after ultra sonic.
> 
> Listening with headphones, I'm very particular about the vinyl I listen to. It must be in as new shape and very clean.



I have found that the 'Wood Glue' method works best.

The secret is to apply the wood glue thickly, making sure it goes on nice and thick up by the label and at the lead in groove.  
Let it dry completely (requires patience, at _least_ 24 hours) and it will peel off in one piece, removing every last trace of dirt and grime.
You will enjoy heavenly quiet vinyl.

Even restores the "rainbow sheen" to old and dirty thrift store Vinyl.  

Happy New Year, and may all your vinyl sound "wood glue" cleaned    

.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I wouldn't have a clue if they are Fivre but it's a B36 - a 12sn7 equivalent. I run mine with the switch at 12.6 volt. My experience with Fivre tubes have always been positive. I have Fivre 6A6, 6N7G, 6BX7. All great sounding tubes.
> 
> I've not done a comparison with the Marconi B36 metal base. Too much to digest now. I'm just enjoying music as I go.



Obviously, "6SN7GT" was a typo. Of course it is "12SN7GT"

But the point is that these foreign made B36 were very likely manufactured by Fivre. And to help you remember:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1080#post-13790706


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Obviously, "6SN7GT" was a typo. Of course it is "12SN7GT"
> 
> But the point is that these foreign made B36 were very likely manufactured by Fivre. And to help you remember:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1080#post-13790706



Oh yes Fivre indeed. No wonder they sound good.

At the moment all these sound great as drivers in the OTL amp.

Sylvania 6sn7w
Tung Sol 6J8G
Ken Rad 1633 6sn7gt
RCA 1633
Brimar 13D1
Various B36
C3g

Still waiting on the fdd20 and ecc31 adapters.

I think even a Foton as driver will sound great in this amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Oh yes Fivre indeed. No wonder they sound good.
> 
> At the moment all these sound great as drivers in the OTL amp.
> 
> ...



Have you made a mistake and put a tube in on the wrong voltage yet?


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Have you made a mistake and put a tube in on the wrong voltage yet?


Sure. That TS "6J8G". LOL


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> Turn down the volume of your amp my friends .*If you can hear the sound being delivered into a person's ear via headphones or earphones, it indicates the sound is too loud and over an extended period can lead to permanent hearing loss.
> 
> https://medicine.stonybrookmedicine...-permanent-hearing-loss-what-you-need-to-know*


True for open back or closed back headphones?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Have you made a mistake and put a tube in on the wrong voltage yet?



Yes. Happened yesterday going from B36 to Sylvania 6sn7w metal without changing to 6.3volt. 

Good thing it didn't kill my precious 6sn7w.

Now I triple check everything before I power it on.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Yes. Happened yesterday going from B36 to Sylvania 6sn7w metal without changing to 6.3volt.
> 
> Good thing it didn't kill my precious 6sn7w.
> 
> Now I triple check everything before I power it on.


Wow, Heat Treated 6SN7W! JK


----------



## 2359glenn

It won't heart the tube it current limits and the blue light goes dull


----------



## attmci

leftside said:


> True for open back or closed back headphones?


I believe they were talking about earphone.

I use this software to measure the "noise-level": https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=kr.sira.sound&hl=en


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> I believe they were talking about earphone.
> 
> I use this software to measure the "noise-level": https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=kr.sira.sound&hl=en


So how do you do it in practice?
Putting on headphones and playing at the level you like, and then holding the phone with the sound level app on, next to the earcup?


----------



## attmci (Jan 2, 2018)

mordy said:


> So how do you do it in practice?
> Putting on headphones and playing at the level you like, and then holding the phone with the sound level app on, next to the earcup?


Yup.

Don't have any of those fancy devices to measure the frequency response.


----------



## Hansotek

DaemonSire said:


> I'm debating between a Decware CSP3 and Glenn OTL.  Has anyone heard both and can compare?
> 
> Also, what is the order process and prices?  Does Glenn make other OTL amps or is it just the one?  I must say, I want UntilThen's amp...



I haven’t had them both in the same place at the same time, but I borrowed Zach’s CSP3 when I reviewed the Atticus, so I had an extended audition and I now own the Glenn OTL, so I can give you a few notes.

Essentially, the DecWare is a little warmer and romantic in its tonality, but the Glenn OTL is infinitely more flexible with tube rolling, more spacious and more transparent. The Glenn OTL also drives way more headphones than the CSP3, which tends to distort with planars. I haven’t run into a problem like that with the Glenn.

At the end of the day, you’re going to be happy with either driving the Atticus and HD800. I think you’ve narrowed it down to the top two amps I’ve heard with those headphones in the earthly price range. Without dropping megabucks on some bananas uber flagship, it’s tough to get much better. Personally, I would choose the Glenn OTL between the two. It’s really the ultimate tube rollers amp.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> It won't heart the tube it current limits and the blue light goes dull



Good to know ! Otherwise I might have to sell my 6sn7w metal base to attmci.


----------



## UntilThen

A friend who is a HiFi nut came over and he listen to Telegraph Road on HD800, powered by Glenn OTL. I see his expression lighting up with amazement. Told me that sounded incredible. For someone who has a good stereo system and making that comment just confirm what I hear with this wonderful OTL amp. I really think Glenn ought to give it a name.


----------



## whirlwind

I have a neighbor that during football season, will come to my house to watch some of the Sunday night NFL football games.

Once when he arrived this year I was listening to some music with Glenns amp and the ZMF Ori.

He wanted to listen and he ended up listening to a whole album.

After that , it seemed he started coming over about 15 minutes early every Sunday evening, until eventually he showed up 45 minutes early so he could listen.

After listening to gear like this for awhile, I guess we just take the sound for granted and expect it to sound so wonderful.

I totally agree Matt, it is very nice when someone else hears it and they do not want to stop listening.

It has to make Glenn feel so good, that people enjoy his amps so much, I know my son and I enjoy them so much.

I could not live without one now, we pretty much use ours seven days a week.

I could not imagine life without music, makes me feel so good.

I go to work at 7:00 am and ever since I received the OTL amp from Glenn, I have gotten up at 4:20 am
to shower and pack my bucket and have time to listen to an album before work.

Music is so good for the soul!


----------



## UntilThen

Well Joe, it seems I'm 'normal' after all because I too get up in the middle of the night, just to be electrified by the electric guitar of Mark Knophler.

I'm intimately familiar with Elise, Euforia, La Figaro 339 and Ragnarok. I know their sound very well because I've lived with these amps. Good tone. I have nothing but praise for them. However Glenn's OTL amp is something else, especially with c3g and 6 x 6bx7. It's electrifying and dynamic. It's so clear and that tight and punchy bass. That's what my friend said. He said it a few times. 

There will be a review coming from me but I wanted to spend some solid hours with Glenn's OTL amp before that happens. 3 months at least....


----------



## King CATalyst

After searching for a good tube amp at a decent price I found this forum and I'm very interested in buying a Glenn otl now. So the question is how do I get one and how much?


----------



## UntilThen

King CATalyst said:


> After searching for a good tube amp at a decent price I found this forum and I'm very interested in buying a Glenn otl now. So the question is how do I get one and how much?



First you've to PM @2359glenn  and tell him that you want an OTL amp similar to mine.  I'll leave Glenn to tell you how much but you'll be surprised at how reasonable the price is. I do think that Glenn is doing a service to the community at the price he's charging. 

Secondly, I really think Glenn needs a few elves to help him with building the amps now.


----------



## King CATalyst

UntilThen said:


> First you've to PM @2359glenn  and tell him that you want an OTL amp similar to mine.  I'll leave Glenn to tell you how much but you'll be surprised at how reasonable the price is. I do think that Glenn is doing a service to the community at the price he's charging.
> 
> Secondly, I really think Glenn needs a few elves to help him with building the amps now.


 Thanks! That's kinda what I assumed but i wasn't sure if he just built these occasionally for certain people or if he'd build one for anyone who asked. 1 more quick question are tubes included? And what tubes are suggested for metal and rock with this amp (complete noob to tubes lol)


----------



## yates7592 (Jan 3, 2018)

As far as I know tubes are not included, but tubes needed are not expensive, certainly not like 300b etc. I just ordered a Glenn OTL and really looking forward to hearing one for myself. From what UT has said, c3g and 6bx7's are very good with rock music.
As a tube-noob myself, which tube(s) would add a bit of warmth to something like HD800, or are c3g and 6bx7 sufficient?


----------



## lukeap69

Glenn can include tubes if you want as long as he has them available (of course for additional fee for the tubes.) For my Darna, a pair of C3g, 2 pairs of rectifiers, sextet 6BL7 and a pair of 6AS7 were included in the package.


----------



## yates7592

For the GOTL, could somebody please summarise the adapters that are available/usable, and how does that expand the tube-rolling potential?


----------



## gibosi

yates7592 said:


> For the GOTL, could somebody please summarise the adapters that are available/usable, and how does that expand the tube-rolling potential?



Adapters are generally available for most medium-mu double triodes, such as 6DJ8, 12AU7, 6F8G and on and on. And for example, the use of a 6DJ8 adapter will allow you to roll all the tubes that are recommended for use in the Schiit Lyr. In short, with the use of adapters, the universe of tubes that can be rolled in the GOTL is enormous.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Adapters are generally available for most medium-mu double triodes, such as 6DJ8, 12AU7, 6F8G and on and on. And for example, the use of a 6DJ8 adapter will allow you to roll all the tubes that are recommended for use in the Schiit Lyr. In short, with the use of adapters, the universe of tubes that can be rolled in the GOTL is enormous.


And I want to add that if you should find some unusual tube with the right electrical characteristics that you want to try, there are vendors that can make the adapters for you.


----------



## DaemonSire

whirlwind said:


> Funny that you mention the MAD Ear + HD for your Grados.
> 
> I cut my teeth on Grado headphones, LOL.
> 
> ...



Same here.  First real headphone was the SR80 years ago.  Had the 325e and GH1 as well over that time.  I do enjoy Grado's even if they don't get as much love around here   The MAD Ear+ HD is a great amp.  If the GOTL can compare for Grado's, I may just have to let it go.  Which is very surprising since I never thought I would...or maybe it will just become a secondary amp for somewhere else.


What has also piqued my interest are the reports of it working with planars.  Man, I'm getting excited and I haven't even ordered yet haha.


----------



## DaemonSire (Jan 3, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> I haven’t had them both in the same place at the same time, but I borrowed Zach’s CSP3 when I reviewed the Atticus, so I had an extended audition and I now own the Glenn OTL, so I can give you a few notes.
> 
> Essentially, the DecWare is a little warmer and romantic in its tonality, but the Glenn OTL is infinitely more flexible with tube rolling, more spacious and more transparent. The Glenn OTL also drives way more headphones than the CSP3, which tends to distort with planars. I haven’t run into a problem like that with the Glenn.
> 
> At the end of the day, you’re going to be happy with either driving the Atticus and HD800. I think you’ve narrowed it down to the top two amps I’ve heard with those headphones in the earthly price range. Without dropping megabucks on some bananas uber flagship, it’s tough to get much better. Personally, I would choose the Glenn OTL between the two. It’s really the ultimate tube rollers amp.



Honestly I was hoping you would chime in Hansotek.  You were the one that tipped me off on the CSP3 before!  I was pretty much set on that (just working on finances and logistics) but then I came across Glenn's OTL.  Seeing all the different tube options, the fact that it works with low Z *and* high Z headphones, planars, etc., it sounds like a no-brainer to go with the GOTL now.

I didn't think you had a GOTL or I would've asked your thoughts.  So thanks for chiming in!  Have you had a chance to try out the GOTL with the HE500?


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Glenn can include tubes if you want as long as he has them available (of course for additional fee for the tubes.) For my Darna, a pair of C3g, 2 pairs of rectifiers, sextet 6BL7 and a pair of 6AS7 were included in the package.



What Arnold says. 

These tubes are good enough for a start. In fact c3g and 6 x 6BL7 / 6BX7 is one of the top tube combination for the OTL amp. When you swap in 2 x 6as7 or 6h13c for the sextet 6BL7, you get more 'body' to the tone. More warm and lushness.


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> As a tube-noob myself, which tube(s) would add a bit of warmth to something like HD800, or are c3g and 6bx7 sufficient?



c3g and 6bx7 is a magical combination for hd800. I'm using Sylvania 6sn7w metal and 6bx7 now. It's really good too but that single 6sn7w tube is expensive.

I would suggest the following drivers and power tubes to start with. They are quite economical. Then I will show you the expensive stuff later. 

Drivers:- c3g, RCA 1633, Brimar 13D1, Ken Rad 6sn7gt, any 6sn7gtb in fact.
Powers:- Sextet 6BL7 / 6BX7, Svetlana 6h13c, RCA 6as7g, Cetron 6336b.

Your amp needs the 6.3 / 12.6 / 25.2 volts switch to use those driver tubes because they are all different voltage there.


----------



## rnros

yates7592 said:


> For the GOTL, could somebody please summarise the adapters that are available/usable, and how does that expand the tube-rolling potential?



It does depend on the options you choose for your GOTL. 
Some of the adapters I have used include:
Rectifier 5V Socket: 596 & 1641/RK60 
Driver 6SN7 Socket: 6F8G/6C8G, 6DJ8/ECC88, 2C51/396A/6N3P 
(Switch option available for 6, 12, or 25V drivers.)
There are others.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Adapters are generally available for most medium-mu double triodes, such as 6DJ8, 12AU7, 6F8G and on and on. And for example, the use of a 6DJ8 adapter will allow you to roll all the tubes that are recommended for use in the Schiit Lyr. In short, with the use of adapters, the universe of tubes that can be rolled in the GOTL is enormous.



Gibosi is the man to ask on tubes and adapters for Glenn OTL amp. We are fortunate to have him in our midst. And rectifiers too if you decide to go with tube rectifiers for your OTL amp.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I'm intimately familiar with Elise, Euforia, *La Figaro 339* and Ragnarok. I know their sound very well because I've lived with these amps. Good tone. I have nothing but praise for them. However Glenn's OTL amp is something else, especially with c3g and 6 x 6bx7. It's electrifying and dynamic. It's so clear and that tight and punchy bass.



What would you say are the biggest differences between the La Figaro 339 and Glenn OTL,and do you think the price difference is reflected in the performance?


----------



## UntilThen (Jan 3, 2018)

monsterzero said:


> What would you say are the biggest differences between the La Figaro 339 and Glenn OTL,and do you think the price difference is reflected in the performance?



The 2 areas of difference between those 2 amps are the mid-range and the bass. LF339 mids is more recessed (in comparison). GOTL mids is more forward and spot on focus in my opinion. As good as the LF339 is on bass and bass weight, GOTL surprise me even more. GOTL is more impactful and extends lower. However it's the overall tone that counts. As a package, GOTL's tone is special, especially with c3g and sextet 6BL7.

Edit:- I do think that the price difference is reflected in the performance. Without a doubt. My opinion though.


----------



## UntilThen

There's another thing about GOTL and LF339. The version of LF339 that I have, have a 'sharper' and more vivid tone. 

GOTL pairing with HD800 is nigh on perfect. Great combination. This impression is not from me alone. I wouldn't say that LF339 and HD800 are the best pairing. LF339 works better with HD650 in my opinion.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> There's another thing about GOTL and LF339. The version of LF339 that I have, have a 'sharper' and more vivid tone.
> 
> GOTL pairing with HD800 is nigh on perfect. Great combination. This impression is not from me alone. I wouldn't say that LF339 and HD800 are the best pairing. LF339 works better with HD650 in my opinion.



My 339 is a tad too warm for my Atticus,but damn near flawless for my HD250s..how does it handle the Atticus?


----------



## UntilThen

monsterzero said:


> My 339 is a tad too warm for my Atticus,but damn near flawless for my HD250s..how does it handle the Atticus?



I'm more details orientated in my preference. So I prefer Eikon over Atticus but I could live and enjoy Atticus too. On certain genre, the warmth of Atticus works to it's advantage.

Both amps are tuneable with tubes. On LF339, I find myself reaching for the warmer power tubes, such as RCA 6as7g, Bendix 6080, Gec 6as7g. On GOTL, c3g and 6 x 6BL7 has a more dynamic tone and suits Atticus very well too.


----------



## whirlwind

yates7592 said:


> As far as I know tubes are not included, but tubes needed are not expensive, certainly not like 300b etc. I just ordered a Glenn OTL and really looking forward to hearing one for myself. From what UT has said, c3g and 6bx7's are very good with rock music.
> As a tube-noob myself, which tube(s) would add a bit of warmth to something like HD800, or are c3g and 6bx7 sufficient?



You can add warmth to the HD800 by using RCA  or Mullard power tubes or warmer driver tube like RCA or a nice neutral tube like Tung Sol mouse ear.
I find these help tame the upper end of the HD800.

So many tubes that you can use, you can find something on the warmer side.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Good to know ! Otherwise I might have to sell my 6sn7w metal base to attmci.



Matt, please send the tube to me.

I will perform
*Cryogenic treatment*
*and make the tube great again!*


----------



## yates7592

whirlwind said:


> You can add warmth to the HD800 by using RCA or Mullard power tubes or warmer driver tube like RCA or a nice neutral tube like Tung Sol mouse ear.
> I find these help tame the upper end of the HD800.
> 
> So many tubes that you can use, you can find something on the warmer side.



Thanks Whirlwind, which exact type of tube are you thinking of in relation to RCA and Mullard etc?


----------



## whirlwind

yates7592 said:


> Thanks Whirlwind, which exact type of tube are you thinking of in relation to RCA and Mullard etc?



Pretty much all RCA tubes that i have tried are on the warmer side.
This would include power tubes such as 6AS7G and 6BX7 and about any 6/12/25 volt driver tubes.

RCA tubes do not seem to be as dynamic and impactful as some other tubes, but no doubt they have a warm tone. You don't have to worry about fatigue.

Most Sylvania tubes that I have tried have much more air in the upper registers.

Personally, I like both.

Of course, like always  YMMV due to your chain , music ect.

I have never found it hard to get a brighter sound, much easier than getting a more darker signature with more detail, especially the way new music is compressed these days with all of the loudness built in.


----------



## rnros

yates7592 said:


> As far as I know tubes are not included, but tubes needed are not expensive, certainly not like 300b etc. I just ordered a Glenn OTL and really looking forward to hearing one for myself. From what UT has said, c3g and 6bx7's are very good with rock music.
> As a tube-noob myself, which tube(s) would add a bit of warmth to something like HD800, or are c3g and 6bx7 sufficient?



C3g and 6BX7 are a good place to start. Both have good low end substance and definition without any treble issues, at least not with my ear and gear.
Good combination to get a sense of how the GOTL opens and projects the low end with your gear, from there you can go warmer if desired.
Will you have Hexfred or tube rectifier?


----------



## Hansotek

DaemonSire said:


> Honestly I was hoping you would chime in Hansotek.  You were the one that tipped me off on the CSP3 before!  I was pretty much set on that (just working on finances and logistics) but then I came across Glenn's OTL.  Seeing all the different tube options, the fact that it works with low Z *and* high Z headphones, planars, etc., it sounds like a no-brainer to go with the GOTL now.
> 
> I didn't think you had a GOTL or I would've asked your thoughts.  So thanks for chiming in!  Have you had a chance to try out the GOTL with the HE500?



I broke out the HE500 to give it a listen, and I kinda forgot how much I like these headphones. This combo definitely rocks. I just popped in a pair of Raytheon 6336 power tubes I scored for cheap on ebay with the usual Miniwatt rectifier and Mullard ECC31 driver (w/ adaptor). A nice warm tilt with this tube rollout and LOTS of bass punch. Mids and treble are liquid and smooth with no strain on any frequencies - just super musical. I haven't tried any other tube combos yet, I bet my GEC 6080s would match nicely with the HE500's sig. Will try those out a little later tonight.


----------



## Hansotek

@DaemonSire - Okay, sampled the HE500 with the GEC 6080 output tubes (which are my favorite 6080s in my collection, fully burned in, and a tube that I'm more used to on the GOTL). More neutral and transparent than the 6336 tubes I tried earlier for sure. Not as much crazy punch, but more accurate to the recording and much tighter damping overall. Unquestionably one of the better HE500 presentations I've heard.

I also plugged in a quad of 6BL7 output tubes and did a quick 3-way comparison with the iFi Pro iCan (in tube+ (aka hybrid) mode) and the Wells Audio Milo (solid state) - both are $1,699 - which is a good bit more than I paid for my GOTL, and it hangs with both of these higher-priced, mega-powered, planar-centric amps very well. I think it's a little better than the Pro iCan with the HE500 (GOTL is a little more dynamic and has better mids) and very close to the Milo (which is just a little bit punchier and more incisive). The Glenn is more flowing and liquid in it's presentation with a rounder (but still accurate) punch on the bass and a less violent snare vs. Milo - pretty classic tube vs. solid state. Very surprising to me that the GOTL can hang with these two planar driving beasts - I knew it was good with planars, but this is damn impressive! I wish I had a Liquid Glass here to compare, because I've always felt that had a magic synergy with the HE500... would love to see how the GOTL compares. Regardless, I give the HE500 + GOTL combo a very enthusiastic thumbs up!


----------



## yates7592

Are the tube-rolling options on GOTL restricted with low impedance cans?


----------



## yates7592

rnros said:


> C3g and 6BX7 are a good place to start. Both have good low end substance and definition without any treble issues, at least not with my ear and gear.
> Good combination to get a sense of how the GOTL opens and projects the low end with your gear, from there you can go warmer if desired.
> Will you have Hexfred or tube rectifier?


I have Hexfred. What is the advantage of each option?


----------



## UntilThen (Jan 5, 2018)

yates7592 said:


> Are the tube-rolling options on GOTL restricted with low impedance cans?



Tube rolling on GOTL applies to all headphones. Adapter for ECC31 has just arrived. After warming up ECC31 and 6 x 6bx7 for 2 hours, I started listening with HD800. I can't believe what I hear. ECC31 has a romantic tone with a voluptuous bass. Coupled that with the tight, punchy tone of sextet 6bx7 and the result is pure euphony.

The mercurial pairing.


----------



## yates7592

Very nice! Are the E-bay Chinese made tube adapters best avoided?


----------



## UntilThen

I bought most of my adapters from this seller. Good quality in my opinion and the seller probably knows me well by now. Goes by the name of xulingmrs. I've no idea whether male or female. The only downside is it takes quite long to get it. Mine travelled from China to Germany before it gets to Australia. No idea why it made a world trip.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## UntilThen

I've since bought 3 expensive NOS tubes from Langrex. The Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, Tung Sol 5998 and Mullard ECC31. All brand new tubes. Don't know how Langrex get these quality tubes new. These are outstanding tubes and I do recommend buying from Langrex.


----------



## whirlwind

The ECC31 is a wonderful tube


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> The ECC31 is a wonderful tube



It is and wonderfully expensive now. 

Next I'll be trying out the Mazda 6N7G with GEC 6as7g. This will be the most beautiful glow of all tubes. 6N7G uses same adapter as ECC31. It is a variant of ECC31.


----------



## whirlwind

Yes, you can use all 6N7G tubes with the ECC31 adapter


----------



## UntilThen

Mazda 6N7G is identical to Visseaux 6N7G in construction and sound. I've since given my pair of Visseaux 6N7G away.

Mazda 6N7G is brighter in tone than Mullard ECC31 and thus pairs better with GEC 6as7g. Regardless, these are very lovely sounding tubes. They are almost extinct now, like the dinosaurs. 

I have the GEC 6as7g on socket savers to match the ECC31 adapter.


----------



## UntilThen

Mazda 6N7G and GEC 6as7g closeup.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn's use of a single 6SN7 and equivalent is a big advantage here. It sounds as good as those amps that use 2 drivers and when you're buying expensive tubes, your wallet will thank you for buying just one tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Glenn's use of a single 6SN7 and equivalent is a big advantage here. It sounds as good as those amps that use 2 drivers and when you're buying expensive tubes, your wallet will thank you for buying just one tube.



Nice and very nice image.

Are you using solid state rectifiers?


----------



## yates7592

UntilThen said:


> Tube rolling on GOTL applies to all headphones. Adapter for ECC31 has just arrived. After warming up ECC31 and 6 x 6bx7 for 2 hours, I started listening with HD800. I can't believe what I hear. ECC31 has a romantic tone with a voluptuous bass. Coupled that with the tight, punchy tone of sextet 6bx7 and the result is pure euphony.



Thanks, so GOTL is good with low Z cans as well. Are there more preferable tube combinations that work better with low Z compared to high Z? I'm thinking 42 ohm dynamic, but not a hard to drive planar or anything like that.


----------



## gibosi

yates7592 said:


> Very nice! Are the E-bay Chinese made tube adapters best avoided?



For the most part, Chinese-made adapters on eBay are the only game in town. And in my experience, I have had very good luck with these Chinese vendors.



yates7592 said:


> I have Hexfred. What is the advantage of each option?



In short: Tube rectification allows for tube rolling to further tweak the sound.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Tube rolling on GOTL applies to all headphones. Adapter for ECC31 has just arrived. After warming up ECC31 and 6 x 6bx7 for 2 hours, I started listening with HD800. I can't believe what I hear. ECC31 has a romantic tone with a voluptuous bass. Coupled that with the tight, punchy tone of sextet 6bx7 and the result is pure euphony.
> 
> The mercurial pairing.



Funny, I had my pair of ECC31's in the Elise this AM and yes..."romantic" is a good description for them.  Add the BX7's...and I am certain you have a really nice sounding amp!

Have you tried FDD20 as driver?


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice and very nice image.
> 
> Are you using solid state rectifiers?



Thanks JV. You would have taken better pictures.

I'm using solid state rectifiers - HEXFRED. That's based on the responses of a few here. There's appeal with going tube rectifier but in the end I just want to keep it simple.


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> Thanks, so GOTL is good with low Z cans as well. Are there more preferable tube combinations that work better with low Z compared to high Z? I'm thinking 42 ohm dynamic, but not a hard to drive planar or anything like that.



6336 tubes are supposed to work well with low Z cans. My lowest Z can now is the LCD-2f at 70 ohms and planar. All the the tube combinations drive this headphone with ease.

I will get my son's HE560 back this weekend for a listen. That's 32 ohms but it shouldn't be a problem for this OTL amp. @Hansotek has just posted about the excellent response he had using HE500 with the OTL amp.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Funny, I had my pair of ECC31's in the Elise this AM and yes..."romantic" is a good description for them.  Add the BX7's...and I am certain you have a really nice sounding amp!
> 
> Have you tried FDD20 as driver?



To simply things, I describe tubes according to the 2 extremes. That's .... 

Romantic <-----------------------> Dynamic

Draw an imaginary centre line and you have a tone somewhere in between. I don't use words such as bloom or worst, 'bloat' on great tubes like ECC31 because that would be cruel.  And yes I would categorise 6BL7 / 6BX7 as on the dynamic side of neutral.

My FDD20 adapter is on it's way to me from xulingmrs. I still have five FDD20 tubes. I couldn't sell them at one stage and I'm glad I didn't sell it. From recollection, I find the FDD20 to be the best of ECC31 and various 6N7G on Elise.


----------



## rnros

yates7592 said:


> I have Hexfred. What is the advantage of each option?



As @gibosi noted, the tube rectifier option allows further sound tweaking, essentially another point of change for FR balance/profile and soundstage qualities. 
You can read gibosi's posts in this thread on a large number of rectifiers to get a sense of that topic, if you think it would interest you going forward.

Hexfred is a good choice for high quality sound without the added effort and expense of rectifier tubes. Hexfred will not limit your options with drivers and output tubes.
Rectifier tubes, on the other hand, do need to meet the current requirements of the output tubes, so some selection for compatibility is required.
Also note, every tube is a potential source of noise, so the SS rectifier is a good way to reduce that nuisance.

There is also a third option, GOTL can also be built for the PY500 tube rectifier, which uses only that one tube type.

Is one option clearly better than the other two? No. Would I give up my GOTL with tube rectifiers? Never. Do I want a Hexfred GOTL? Yes.
It's a Win/Win/Win.


----------



## rnros

yates7592 said:


> Thanks, so GOTL is good with low Z cans as well. Are there more preferable tube combinations that work better with low Z compared to high Z? I'm thinking 42 ohm dynamic, but not a hard to drive planar or anything like that.



The headphones I use on a daily basis with the GOTL are low impedance, no issues with any of them. Check my profile.
I have preferences for tube combinations, there are always synergies, but none that I would describe as flawed or unacceptable.


----------



## UntilThen

Nice collection of headphones and amps rnrros.

At the beginning of last year, I wanted to get Schiit Gungnir Multibit and Mjolnir 2. When I went to Addicted To Audio, that plan went out the window and I had to redraw my plans and my cheque. So I end up with Yggdrasil and Ragnarok (together with Euforia) and I thought I will live happily thereafter. It was the most gorgeous sound for a while. Then in the midst of my total contentment, Glenn pop into my thread and said hello. That changed the course of my audio history. Now Euforia is sold and Ragnarok sits on the floor - unplugged. There's no space for it on the desk or the rack !!!


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Nice collection of headphones and amps rnrros.
> 
> At the beginning of last year, I wanted to get Schiit Gungnir Multibit and Mjolnir 2. When I went to Addicted To Audio, that plan went out the window and I had to redraw my plans and my cheque. So I end up with Yggdrasil and Ragnarok (together with Euforia) and I thought I will live happily thereafter. It was the most gorgeous sound for a while. Then in the midst of my total contentment, Glenn pop into my thread and said hello. That changed the course of my audio history. Now Euforia is sold and Ragnarok sits on the floor - unplugged. There's no space for it on the desk or the rack !!!



Thanks. I agree, so many fine components to choose from, and like many others here, we are fortunate to have what we do have. Obviously it is both a passion/obsession and a commitment. 
Obviously the designers and builders of the fine components you mention share a similar passion/obsession, perhaps more so. We only risk the expense of a single purchase, the designers/builders have much more at stake. So I am always grateful for, and respectful of, their efforts and accomplishments. 
True, I feel very fortunate to have come across Glenn's work and his fine amps. But we are all very fortunate that this level of excellence and competition in audio design exists in the first place!
So, hats off to every designer/builder with skin in the game.


----------



## UntilThen

I blame this amp. It's what make me produce my Rembrandt.


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 5, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Glenn's use of a single 6SN7 and equivalent is a big advantage here. It sounds as good as those amps that use 2 drivers and when you're buying expensive tubes, your wallet will thank you for buying just one tube.



The driver stage of Glenns OTL is its greatest feature in my mind...brilliant.
Pair this with a kick butt transformer and that in itself makes for a wonderful piece of gear.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Glenn's use of a single 6SN7 and equivalent is a big advantage here. It sounds as good as those amps that use 2 drivers and when you're buying expensive tubes, your wallet will thank you for buying just one tube.



And it also pays off big-time when pushing the tube-rolling envelope. For example, as below, rolling a pair of UY-227 in place of the 6SN7. If the amp had been designed to require two drivers, it would be considerably more complicated. And further, there might not even be enough space on the top deck for two pairs of UY-227.

@yates7592: Chinese adapters at every position, rectifier, driver and output tutbes.


----------



## gibosi (Jan 5, 2018)

rnros said:


> ......Hexfred is a good choice for high quality sound without the added effort and expense of rectifier tubes. Hexfred will not limit your options with drivers and output tubes......


And for GOTLs with 5-volt tube rectification, Glenn can provide a plug-in HEXFRED rectifer. It isn't much to look at but it sure sounds good.


----------



## yates7592

gibosi said:


> And for GOTLs with 5-volt tube rectification, Glenn can provide a plug-in HEXFRED rectifer. It isn't much to look at but it sure sounds good.



Thanks, that sounds like just what I should get for my GOTL.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> And for GOTLs with 5-volt tube rectification, Glenn can provide a plug-in HEXFRED rectifer. It isn't much to look at but it sure sounds good.




Glenn made me one of these for the EL3N amp.
It sounds very good, but I only listened to it for a few days and then i went right back to tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> And it also pays off big-time when pushing the tube-rolling envelope. For example, as below, rolling a pair of UY-227 in place of the 6SN7. If the amp had been designed to require two drivers, it would be considerably more complicated. And further, there might not even be enough space on the top deck for two pairs of UY-227.
> 
> @yates7592: Chinese adapters at every position, rectifier, driver and output tutbes.



Is that the adapter that I removed the resistor and the tube is running off the tap in the transformer for the 3DG4.


----------



## gibosi (Jan 6, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Is that the adapter that I removed the resistor and the tube is running off the tap in the transformer for the 3DG4.



Yes it is. 

To tell the whole story, I have two Chinese-made adapters for 4-volt rectifiers with the 4-pin B4 Base. The one on the left is very good, but the build quality of the one on the right is not so good. But there is a silver lining. Since the build quality is poor, it is relatively easy to disassemble, remove the guts and rewire it to allow a 4-volt recitifier to run off the 3.8-volt transformer tap normally used for the 3DG4.

This has a number of advantages. As designed, these adapters use a resister to drop the 5-volt heater current supplied by the amp to 4 volts. But the amount of voltage drop depends on the current. I have a bunch of B4-based rectifiers drawing anywhere from 2 amps to 4 amps. For the higher current rectifiers, the operating voltage was closer to 3 volts instead of 4. And further, the resister wasn't really beefy enough to handle 4 amps.

So the one on the right is fine for rectifiers drawing 2 amps. But for the higher current rectifiers, the one on the right, modified by Glenn is the way to go.


----------



## whirlwind

I have the adapter on the left for my U18/U20
It will get pretty dang hot after long use.

I have noticed the 80 Globe runs really cool


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Yes it is.
> 
> To tell the whole story, I have two Chinese-made adapters for 4-volt rectifiers with the 4-pin B4 Base. The one on the left is very good, but the build quality of the one on the right is not so good. But there is a silver lining. Since the build quality is poor, it is relatively easy to disassemble, remove the guts and rewire it to allow a 4-volt recitifier to run off the 3.8-volt transformer tap normally used for the 3DG4.
> 
> ...



Nice adapter!
A little bit side track, do you have any problem with the adapter by xulingmrs for UU7/UU8?
I'm gonna get that rectifier soon


----------



## 2359glenn

Ken and Joe
Is it cold enough in Ohio?


----------



## whirlwind

minus 2 this morning here.

Looks like maybe we get a break next week  20's and 30's

This will feel pretty warm, lol


----------



## Rossliew

Weather seems pretty extreme this winter...saw some pics in our local daily of a snow coated Times Square in NYC!


----------



## yates7592

Glenn, there are a couple of PM's in your inbox from me to firm up my order.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Nice adapter!
> A little bit side track, do you have any problem with the adapter by xulingmrs for UU7/UU8?
> I'm gonna get that rectifier soon



Since the heater-current draw for the UU7 and UU8 are different, they require different adapters with different voltage-dropping resisters. I have had no problems with either of these adapters.





2359glenn said:


> Ken and Joe
> Is it cold enough in Ohio?



I think it is more than cold enough in Ohio! lol

When I took the dogs out this morning it was about 0F (which is about -18C for those in the rest of the world).


----------



## yates7592

Could people tell me if there is a special tube combination with GOTL that can really flatter relatively poor recordings, e.g. some 70's rock CD's. I'm wondering if there is such a combination, that is very forgiving of most recordings, when trying to put "lipstick on a pig", so to speak. I have lots and lots of those CD's, so I would be very interested to know.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Inverted egg crates assist in tube storage:


----------



## UntilThen

Help I'm dying of heat here. 40c.


----------



## 2359glenn

Good idea


----------



## UntilThen

According to my hot lab here, this is a gold award tube combination. HD800 is singing as sweetly as Utopia now. 

Mullard ECC31 and 6BX7s.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> According to my hot lab here, this is a gold award tube combination. HD800 is singing as sweetly as Utopia now.
> 
> Mullard ECC31 and 6BX7s.



Custom made goodness.

Glenn for President.


----------



## UntilThen

5 days into a month's anniversary with Glenn's OTL amp, I'm super impressed with what I hear. Just finished listening to Maurice Ravel Bolero by the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Valery Gergiev. GOTL handles fine delicate instrumentals as well as Rock like a maestro conductor. Congrats on those who have put themselves on the queue for this amp. You have no idea what awaits you.


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> Could people tell me if there is a special tube combination with GOTL that can really flatter relatively poor recordings, e.g. some 70's rock CD's. I'm wondering if there is such a combination, that is very forgiving of most recordings, when trying to put "lipstick on a pig", so to speak. I have lots and lots of those CD's, so I would be very interested to know.



Ha I have just the tube combination for you. It's Mordy's favourite driver - Foton 6N8S with 6BX7s. This will rock you. 



Then listen to this classic rock and you will be swinging like the crowd.


----------



## UntilThen

I grew up with classic rock and I love the Immigrant Song. This movie trailer is cool and you have to hear it on GOTL driving Atticus. It will move you.


----------



## UntilThen

And when am I going to learn to play the drums like this girl? Atticus sounds great on GOTL !!!


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Ha I have just the tube combination for you. It's Mordy's favourite driver - Foton 6N8S with 6BX7s. This will rock you.
> 
> 
> 
> Then listen to this classic rock and you will be swinging like the crowd.



Hi UT,

Which year Foton 6N8S?


----------



## UntilThen

No idea. Says 6H8C on the glass with the number 66. This pair was given to me so I have no idea on the specs.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> No idea. Says 6H8C on the glass with the number 66. This pair was given to me so I have no idea on the specs.


Looked at my Foton tube - it seems reasonable that your tube is from 1966. The 1952-55 ribbed anode tubes are better sounding IMHO, but the 60's tubes are nice as well with very good bass.


----------



## UntilThen

While Sydney hits a record high temp of 47.5c today, I stayed indoor in air-con comfort to sample some drivers on GOTL. Power tubes are 6 x 6BX7.

These are the top contenders for best drivers from my collection:-

Siemens C3G (more microphonic than the others)
Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
Tung Sol 6F8G black round plates
Mullard ECC31
GEC B36
Marconi B36 metal base

All excellent tubes and I can't really pick a favourite right now. TS 6F8G is in the driver's seat now and my smile is as wide as the ocean.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Looked at my Foton tube - it seems reasonable that your tube is from 1966. The 1952-55 ribbed anode tubes are better sounding IMHO, but the 60's tubes are nice as well with very good bass.



Are yours Melz? That's probably one driver I would like to try. One with perforated plates and the number 1578 etched on it. Probably the best of the Russian 6sn7 equivalent.


----------



## yates7592

UntilThen said:


> Ha I have just the tube combination for you. It's Mordy's favourite driver - Foton 6N8S with 6BX7s. This will rock you.



Sounds perfect Matt, thanks!


----------



## yates7592

mordy said:


> Looked at my Foton tube - it seems reasonable that your tube is from 1966. The 1952-55 ribbed anode tubes are better sounding IMHO, but the 60's tubes are nice as well with very good bass.



Thanks for the info. What's the difference in sound between 1952-55 ribbed and 1960's?


----------



## UntilThen

Phenomena just absolutely phenomena. TS 6F8G is still in the driver's seat with 6bx7s and my smile has now extend beyond the horizon. In fact all of these drivers sound great with those power tubes.

As far as I know, Glenn's OTL amp is the only tube amp *specifically build and tuned* to use 6 x 6BL7 or 6BX7 and it sounds phenomena. Incredible performance.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Are yours Melz? That's probably one driver I would like to try. One with perforated plates and the number 1578 etched on it. Probably the best of the Russian 6sn7 equivalent.



I picked up one of these for cheap as it has a broken guide pin. And frankly, I am not impressed. While the highs and lows are quite good, to my ears the mids are all sucked out. I am very glad I got it cheap.


----------



## 2359glenn

I was going to get some can get them for $2 think I will stick with 1633 $4


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 7, 2018)

gibosi said:


> I picked up one of these for cheap as it has a broken guide pin. And frankly, I am not impressed. While the highs and lows are quite good, to my ears the mids are all sucked out. I am very glad I got it cheap.




I believe the ones with the five holes in the plates, like this one, is suppose to be superior to the ones with the three holes in the plates, but who wants a sound where the mids are sucked out of it.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> I picked up one of these for cheap as it has a broken guide pin. And frankly, I am not impressed. While the highs and lows are quite good, to my ears the mids are all sucked out. I am very glad I got it cheap.



Guess I needn't bother with Melz.  There are too many good drivers to choose from as it is.


----------



## mordy

The 1952-55 Fotons with the ribbed anode are supposedly very close to the best Melz tubes. However, the Melz tubes are expensive, and there are many reported quality problems, so I have not tried them.
The difference to me between the 60-70's Fotons and the early 50's is a more even frequency response and a sweeter tone. The 50's also have a different construction with more support rods and are supposed to be less microphonic.
In my system, the 50's Fotons, paired with the GEC 6080, sounds just right, with all the detail and sweet tone across the entire FR, that I like. Since I put them in, I don't have any urge to roll tubes....
Here is a review of this tube from Scutey:
"the 53 Foton, it's a lovely sweet sounding tube, silent, no microphonics, warmish, smooth highs and detailed mids, bass is punchy and tight a tube I can easily listen to for hours, without ever sound lush"


----------



## UntilThen

This is my mercurial pairing. I couldn't have ask for more. I'm totally satisfied now.


----------



## 2359glenn

Packing up a EL3N amt to ship
And building a basic OTL with Lundahl transformer and 6.3-12.6-25.2 volt switch.


----------



## UntilThen

That's super cute.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> *Packing up a EL3N amt to ship*
> And building a basic OTL with Lundahl transformer and 6.3-12.6-25.2 volt switch.



I threw the 3DG4 rectifier back in the GEL3N (aka Scarlett) about a week ago and noticed an immediate improvement from the UE 596 tube it replaced.   Tighter base, less distortion slightly more dynamic etc.  I think the 3DG4 with less voltage drop is making a difference; the magic of the EL3N is really starting to happen (2 stage mode/ Senn 800 HP).  For me it took about 150 hours of burn-in to get to this point likely due to very new and stiff EL3N tubes, the Duelund RS coupling caps and possibly the Mil spec. wire I supplied for the voice path.  All and all Scarlett is providing that mid-centric glory of the 45 and 300B tubes.

Congrats to the new Glenn amp owners!


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> That's super cute.



Just like Scarlett Johansson,   but not to be confused with my Scarlett!


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> I threw the 3DG4 rectifier back in the GEL3N (aka Scarlett) about a week ago and noticed an immediate improvement from the UE 596 tube it replaced.   Tighter base, less distortion slightly more dynamic etc.  I think the 3DG4 with less voltage drop is making a difference; the magic of the EL3N is really starting to happen (2 stage mode/ Senn 800 HP).  For me it took about 150 hours of burn-in to get to this point likely due to very new and stiff EL3N tubes, the Duelund RS coupling caps and possibly the Mil spec. wire I supplied for the voice path.  All and all Scarlett is providing that mid-centric glory of the 45 and 300B tubes.
> 
> Congrats to the new Glenn amp owners!



The 3DG4 is a great rectifier for low cost better then rectifiers that cost hundreds.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> The 3DG4 is a great rectifier for low cost better then rectifiers that cost hundreds.


Well I'm definitely a believer now.  Another added bonus (for me) is that the slightly elevated B+ has noticeably dropped the static (scratchy) noise level in the driver tubes.  I would recommend that new GEL3N owners burn-in their amps using the 3DG4 (YMMV.)


----------



## gibosi

ru4music said:


> Well I'm definitely a believer now.  Another added bonus (for me) is that the slightly elevated B+ has noticeably dropped the static (scratchy) noise level in the driver tubes.  I would recommend that new GEL3N owners burn-in their amps using the 3DG4 (YMMV.)



You might want to try a GZ34. It has even less voltage drop than the 3DG4. In my OTL with a pair of 6AS7G as output, I measured the 3DG4 with a voltage drop of 17 while the GZ34 was 13.


----------



## 2359glenn

There is also the GZ37 but costly.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> There is also the GZ37 but costly.



I measured the Mullard GZ37 at 27 volts, the more costly Cossor "Fat" GZ37 (53KU) was 22, and the Mullard GZ32 was 20.

But with respect to the GZ32, one must be careful to purchase a real Mullard GZ32, and not the Brimar 5V4G, with perforated plates. Unfortunately, the Brimar is often labeled as a GZ32. And worse, the 5V4G is rated at only 175ma and cannot provide enough current to run the OTL with 6AS7G installed. On the other hand, a real GZ32 is good for 250 to 300ma in the OTL.

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/030/g/GZ32.pdf


----------



## Monsterzero

@2359glenn I dropped you a PM several days ago inquiring about your amps...If you could respond or let me know of a better way to correspond I'd appreciate it.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> I measured the Mullard GZ37 at 27 volts, the more costly Cossor "Fat" GZ37 (53KU) was 22, and the Mullard GZ32 was 20.
> 
> But with respect to the GZ32, one must be careful to purchase a real Mullard GZ32, and not the Brimar 5V4G, with perforated plates. Unfortunately, the Brimar is often labeled as a GZ32. And worse, the 5V4G is rated at only 175ma and cannot provide enough current to run the OTL with 6AS7G installed. On the other hand, a real GZ32 is good for 250 to 300ma in the OTL.
> 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/030/g/GZ32.pdf



Thanks for the info Ken
I did not know gz32 can provide 250ma


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Thanks for the info Ken
> I did not know gz32 can provide 250ma



The fact that the Brimar 5V4G is commonly labeled as a GZ32 has created considerable confusion. On more than one occasion, people have had them fail catastrophically in a Glenn OTL, and came to the conclusion that the GZ32 was not suitable for use in the GOTL. However, a true GZ32 is perfectly adequate, and even better, Mullard's version is a very good sounding rectifier.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> I measured the Mullard GZ37 at 27 volts, the more costly Cossor "Fat" GZ37 (53KU) was 22, and the Mullard GZ32 was 20.
> 
> But with respect to the GZ32, one must be careful to purchase a real Mullard GZ32, and not the Brimar 5V4G, with perforated plates. Unfortunately, the Brimar is often labeled as a GZ32. And worse, the 5V4G is rated at only 175ma and cannot provide enough current to run the OTL with 6AS7G installed. On the other hand, a real GZ32 is good for 250 to 300ma in the OTL.
> 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/030/g/GZ32.pdf


Brimar 5V4G, re-branded Russian tube?


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Brimar 5V4G, re-branded Russian tube?



No, the 5V4G / CV729 was manufactured by Brimar, and in those amps that can use it, many consider it to be a good sounding rectifier. While 175ma isn't adequate to power the GOTL with 6AS7G installed, it can be used with a quad of 6BL7. And of course, it is fine in the GEL3N.


----------



## attmci

The left tube is a re-branded Brimar.

Yes, I love the CV 729 on the right.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> The fact that the Brimar 5V4G is commonly labeled as a GZ32 has created considerable confusion. On more than one occasion, people have had them fail catastrophically in a Glenn OTL, and came to the conclusion that the GZ32 was not suitable for use in the GOTL. However, a true GZ32 is perfectly adequate, and even better, Mullard's version is a very good sounding rectifier.



Some years ago when I used 5U4 rectifier in 300B amps. It was powering two 300Bs and two C3gs that add up to 200ma
at twice the voltage used in the OTL 425 volt or 850 PIV. Someone put in a GZ32 and it violently exploded on the inside.
I only recommend using this tube in the EL3N amp.


----------



## UntilThen

ECC31 and Tung Sol 5998 sounds really good in Glenn's OTL amp.


----------



## whirlwind

ru4music said:


> Well I'm definitely a believer now.  Another added bonus (for me) is that the slightly elevated B+ has noticeably dropped the static (scratchy) noise level in the driver tubes.  I would recommend that new GEL3N owners burn-in their amps using the 3DG4 (YMMV.)



For $4 each for this rectifier...it is a no brainer!


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> ECC31 and Tung Sol 5998 sounds really good in Glenn's OTL amp.


Sounds good in most amps  Most tube combos you are recommending are also the favorite combos in my (well actually my wife seems to have taken it over...) WA22.


----------



## mordy

One of my grandsons got into Hi Fi and brought over an Audeze LCD-3 headphone for me to listen to.




It looks exactly like this one. I did not realize how expensive they are, and listened to them without any price prejudice lol. Anyhow, I would only describe them as honestly as I can in any event.
Pulled out my Elise tube headphone amp since I thought it would have enough power for the LCD-3. First I compared it to the Sennheiser HD650, but it was too different to compare with - needed something more detailed, and took out my Beyerdynamic T1 Gen1.

The LCD-3 headphones felt heavy but very comfortable.
Planars are supposed to have very good bass, and the bass is exemplary, detailed, and full bodied, much more so than the T1. However, I felt that the mid range was sweeter with the T1, and the treble was less emphasized than on the T1. (It occurred to me that I could flesh out the bass on the T1 using tone controls.)
I ended up thinking that the bass was more prominent and the mid range and highs were not as much to my liking as the T1. The detail was about the same with both phones.
If you like superlative bass, this is the way to go, but personally I would prefer a different presentation.
Again, I did not try to tweak the amp to better suit the Audeze and just used my GEC saver tube complement - a pair of 60's Fotons and a pair of 50's RCA 6AS7G.
Only spent some 30 minutes with a brand new pair so my impressions may change over time. And yes, the LDC-3 cost almost $2000.....


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Sounds good in most amps  Most tube combos you are recommending are also the favorite combos in my (well actually my wife seems to have taken it over...) WA22.



It's no surprise they sound good in other amps too because these are quite special sounding tubes. 

What made me smile when I look at the Glenn OTL is that I am only using one NOS ECC31 driver. The tube that came from Langrex is so perfect even the lettering is still 100%.

The 5998 didn't last long in the sockets because I'm back to using 6BX7s again with a GEC B36. Those other power tubes such as GEC 6as7g and Tung Sol 5998 are good, very good but I somehow prefer the more incisive tone of the 6BX7.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Know what you mean about the "incisive tone" of 6BL/BX7's...faster/sharper/more dynamic.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy, glad you had the chance to listen to the LCD-3. I've only listen to LCD-2f. At Addicted To Audio, they have the whole Audeze range including LCD-4 but I didn't ask to listen to the 3 and 4 because I didn't want my wallet to take a bigger hit. 

You need a period of adjusting to the much different sonic signatures when going from T1 to LCD-3. That said, you might be more a 'details' person just like me. Prior to getting Glenn OTL, my fav headphone is the ZMF Eikon but now HD800 has reclaimed pole position. I'm a firm believer that when evaluating a gear, you need to consider the whole setup. Source, amp, headphone and tubes. To a lessor degree headphone cable. Let's not talk about fuse. You have to find the right balance of romantic and dynamic in the whole chain. 

However what surprise me is that LCD-2f is gaining favour with me again.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Know what you mean about the "incisive tone" of 6BL/BX7's...faster/sharper/more dynamic.



Spot on JV.


----------



## UntilThen

GEC B36 brown base or Sylvania 6sn7w metal base? I've to toss a coin on that one. 

2 very different sonic presentation. 6sn7w is fast, dynamic, precise and ultra revealing. Wide stage and good bass impact. GEC B36 is on the romantic side of the spectrum. It's not overly warm and lush. Not to my ears. It's a great tone. So soothing and smooth.

I've to thank Stavros once again for the GEC B36. It's NOS and came in a pristine GEC box. Can't believe he sold me this jewel.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Some years ago when I used 5U4 rectifier in 300B amps. It was powering two 300Bs and two C3gs that add up to 200ma
> at twice the voltage used in the OTL 425 volt or 850 PIV. Someone put in a GZ32 and it violently exploded on the inside.
> I only recommend using this tube in the EL3N amp.



Too bad. Matt, do you wanna to try it on your new toy?


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Too bad. Matt, do you wanna to try it on your new toy?



This new Scar Jo will protected and loved. There will be no violent explosions. No thank you. This is why I chose the safe option - hexfred.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> This new Scar Jo will protected and loved. There will be no violent explosions. No thank you. This is why I chose the safe option - hexfred.


That will generate spikes when u turn on the amp. and shorten the life span of your valuable tubes too. So just leave your amp on all the time. LOL







JK


----------



## 2359glenn

A 5U4 is almost instant on almost as fast as SS


----------



## mordy

You need a period of adjusting to the much different sonic signatures when going from T1 to LCD-3. That said, you might be more a 'details' person just like me. Prior to getting Glenn OTL, my fav headphone is the ZMF Eikon but now HD800 has reclaimed pole position. I'm a firm believer that when evaluating a gear, you need to consider the whole setup. Source, amp, headphone and tubes. To a lessor degree headphone cable. Let's not talk about fuse. You have to find the right balance of romantic and dynamic in the whole chain.

However what surprise me is that LCD-2f is gaining favour with me again.[/QUOTE]
Hi UT,

I agree completely - you need much more time with a new item to fully appreciate it - I just noted my initial impressions.
The total system plays a major role. In my present set up I prefer the HD650 over the T1. The HD650 is less detailed but has a beautiful, warm presentation; the T1 is much more detailed and analytic. 
To me it is the difference between a laser photo and an impressionist painting:
(You can count the trees....)





And this soft focus beautiful landscape:


----------



## attmci (Jan 9, 2018)

That's why I asked Matt to just run the amp 24x7.

Or use a indirectly heated tube.







http://www.mother-of-tone.com/current.htm


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 8, 2018)

I like on the OTL amps with the PY500/42EC4 rectifier tubes , that one will lite up a bit before the other then the second one starts to light...


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I like on the OTL amps with the PY500/42EC4 rectifier tubes , that one will lite up a bit before the other then the second one starts to light...



The 42EC4 worms up nice and slow. I would prefer using the 42EC4 but no tube rolling not cool.
And I ran out of the nice NOS plate caps from my TV store in the 80s
and the dam things cost me $1 can't beat that.


----------



## leftside

Lake Louise, Alberta, Canada is the picture from Andrew Larsen.


----------



## mordy (Jan 8, 2018)

leftside said:


> Lake Louise, Alberta, Canada is the picture from Andrew Larsen.


And I thought it was Lake Moraine...
But you are right - checked some old pictures of mine.


----------



## leftside (Jan 8, 2018)

You could probably well be right. The hamlet called Lake Louise (very close to the lake also called Lake Louise) is about 14km from the lake called Lake Moraine. Close enough  Both are beautiful.


----------



## JazzVinyl

P


UntilThen said:


> sample some drivers on GOTL. Power tubes are 6 x 6BX7.
> 
> These are the top contenders for best drivers from my collection:-
> 
> ...



Wondering if you still have/tried your Mazda 6N7G's and didn't you have some 6A6's at one time?


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> GEC B36 brown base or Sylvania 6sn7w metal base? I've to toss a coin on that one.
> 
> 2 very different sonic presentation. 6sn7w is fast, dynamic, precise and ultra revealing. Wide stage and good bass impact. GEC B36 is on the romantic side of the spectrum. It's not overly warm and lush. Not to my ears. It's a great tone. So soothing and smooth.
> 
> I've to thank Stavros once again for the GEC B36. It's NOS and came in a pristine GEC box. Can't believe he sold me this jewel.



GEC B36....  Fivre 12SN7?


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> GEC B36....  Fivre 12SN7?



Hello Ken...

Know anything about these 12SK7GT's:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-12SK7GT-FIVRE-NOS-ITALY-Tube-Rohre-Lampe-TSF-Valvola-Valve/401403929167


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Ken...
> 
> Know anything about these 12SK7GT's:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-12SK7GT-FIVRE-NOS-ITALY-Tube-Rohre-Lampe-TSF-Valvola-Valve/401403929167



The 12SK7GT appears to be a 12-volt single pentode, with three grids, so it would be necessary to triode-strap a pair, similar to the C3g and EL3N.  And of course, it would be necessary to heat them with 12 volts. A 6SK7, with a 6-volt heater also exists, but I have no idea how these would sound or if they would be worth the trouble.....


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> The 12SK7GT appears to be a 12-volt single pentode, with three grids, so it would be necessary to triode-strap a pair, similar to the C3g and EL3N.  And of course, it would be necessary to heat them with 12 volts. A 6SK7, with a 6-volt heater also exists, but I have no idea how these would sound or if they would be worth the trouble.....


Speaking about 12V tubes, I remember reading somewhere that the 12SX7 is a good sounding tube. Does anybody have experience with it?
Trivia Dept: The tube era was a different era, and no marketing agency had to worry about naming a tube 12SX7 - there is even a 6BS7 tube .....
Don't know if these designations would happen today.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> P
> 
> 
> Wondering if you still have/tried your Mazda 6N7G's and didn't you have some 6A6's at one time?



I tried Mazda 6N7G and had a picture several posts back. Tried Fivre 6A6 and lots of noise. I think the adapter is defective.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> GEC B36....  Fivre 12SN7?



I wouldn't know but it came in this packaging. Tried the Marconi B36 metal base again last night and it's a great tone too. Too short a time to tell the difference between GEC B36 and Marconi B36. In other words the tone didn't jump out at me as being markedly different.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Ken...
> 
> Know anything about these 12SK7GT's:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-12SK7GT-FIVRE-NOS-ITALY-Tube-Rohre-Lampe-TSF-Valvola-Valve/401403929167



The 6SK7 and 12SK7 are rf pentodes used in AM and FM radios I might work with the right adapter don't know the sound.
Before I would try that I would try the 6SJ7 and 12SJ7 for audio these were used as high gain microphone preamps and don't sound to bad.
I think it has the same pin config as the SK7.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I wouldn't know but it came in this packaging. Tried the Marconi B36 metal base again last night and it's a great tone too. Too short a time to tell the difference between GEC B36 and Marconi B36. In other words the tone didn't jump out at me as being markedly different.



Marconi, Osram and GEC are all the same company and the B36  and other tubes manufactured in the Hammersmith factory may sport any of these brands. As your "GEC B36" is not labeled "foreign made", it is likely that it is just a later version of the "Marconi B36", manufactured in Hammersmith, but with a brown base and clear glass.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I wouldn't know but it came in this packaging. Tried the Marconi B36 metal base again last night and it's a great tone too. Too short a time to tell the difference between GEC B36 and Marconi B36. In other words the tone didn't jump out at me as being markedly different.


Very sharp pictures.

I don't believe GOTL needs any of these very expensive tubes. So please pack well and send them to the States.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Very sharp pictures.
> 
> I don't believe GOTL needs any of these very expensive tubes. So please pack well and send them to the States.



I'm still looking for 2 brand new NOS drivers. Tung Sol 6sn7gt black glass round plates and Mullard ECC35. You see it cheap you let me know ok?


----------



## UntilThen

My magnificent 7 drivers. GOTL is an incredible sounding tube amp. One of my most prize possession now. Love all these drivers but there's one that's standing taller and that's C3G. With 6 x 6BX7, it's a killer tone.


----------



## attmci (Jan 10, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I'm still looking for 2 brand new NOS drivers. Tung Sol 6sn7gt black glass round plates and Mullard ECC35. You see it cheap you let me know ok?


You should read Stavros' signature. I totally agree with Glenn's point.




Well, on the other hand, he does use the reliable/expensive parts for his build.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> You should read Stavros' signature. I totally agree with Glenn's point.



I have a mind of my own. I sample everything.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I have a mind of my own. I sample everything.


Me 2. But trying to change.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Me 2. But trying to change.



That is strange. If you're part of the 'Me 2', all the tubes are already there. Just use it and enjoy it unless you have sold it.


----------



## lukeap69

@UntilThen Matt

Does the 5998 switch make much difference? I have TS5998 on the way but would like to know if I will be missing much because my Darna does not have the 5998 switch.


----------



## UntilThen

I haven't use the 5998 switch much. On the last occasion, I was specifically trying to hear any difference when I flick the switch. Could be my ears playing tricks but I thought it sounded just a mite louder when I had the boost switch on. Apart from that, I could detect no difference.

I don't use it much because I'm under the illusion that it will burn up my 5998 faster.


----------



## UntilThen

What will make a bigger difference is using four 5998 instead of two but that will be depleting a scare resource faster.... and that is a big no no. We must use 5998 frugally.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> What will make a bigger difference is using four 5998 instead of two but that will be depleting a scare resource faster.... and that is a big no no. We must use 5998 frugally.



Ha! I am ready for this comment. I have 4 on the way so I can try that. I don't worry much about the scarcity, other tubes sound very good as well so let's use four 5998's to our hearts' content.


----------



## yates7592

Can users please tell me what types of 6BL7 tube are better than others?


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> @UntilThen Matt
> 
> Does the 5998 switch make much difference? I have TS5998 on the way but would like to know if I will be missing much because my Darna does not have the 5998 switch.



The 5998 will still sound good it just sounds better with the switch on


----------



## yates7592

And another one - 5V rectifiers - advice please as to best ones to start out with beyond HEXFRED plug-in.


----------



## rnros

yates7592 said:


> Can users please tell me what types of 6BL7 tube are better than others?



Did you mean 6BL7s or 6BX7s? Both good, I think most prefer the BX7s. On the BX7s, I have/use Sylvania, GE, and RCA. I typically use 4 Sylvania and 2 GE or RCA.
With my BX7s, I actually selected tubes/pairs for lack of noise, so that's why the mix of brands. I may purchase more, they are very good
Don't remember which BL7s I have, haven't used them for a while.



yates7592 said:


> And another one - 5V rectifiers - advice please as to best ones to start out with beyond HEXFRED plug-in.



Some that I have tried:
Good and low cost ($5 TO $20): 5CU4, 5AW4, and 5C3S (Soviet/Svetlana). I went with Glenn's recommendations, I think he recommended all of these.
At higher cost, and very good, Mullard GZ37, available at Langrex, about $110. Also recommended by Glenn.
Adapter req'd: GE 1641/RK60, Very good/excellent tube at reasonable cost, about $40.
(The only adapter I found for this tube is prone to very slight vibration, solve that problem and the 1641 competes with the UE596.)
Adapter req'd: UE 596, Excellent tube, higher cost, and (very) difficult to find, about $150.
I rotate all of these from time to time, 5CU4 probably my favorite in the low cost category. The 1641/RK60 usually stays in the amp unless I'm rolling another tube.
These are all good, so depends on your ear, power tubes and headphones.

There are many others, I'm sure others will provide options, and you can search the thread also.


----------



## mordy

yates7592 said:


> Can users please tell me what types of 6BL7 tube are better than others?


Hi yates7592,

Some time back I compared different 6BL7 tubes and I seem to remember that I liked the late 50's early 60's  X- plate tubes tubes from Tung Sol and GE (GE may have made some of the TS tubes).
However, this was in a different amp and only as pairs.
I am not sure how critical the brand selection is when you use six of them together.
I have 6BL7 tubes from Sylvania, RCA, GE, Tung Sol, Westinghouse and Raytheon.
A quick check of eBay reveals over 400 offers. It seems that it is still possible to snag a sextet for $3-5 each with some careful shopping.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Ha! I am ready for this comment. I have 4 on the way so I can try that. I don't worry much about the scarcity, other tubes sound very good as well so let's use four 5998's to our hearts' content.



You bought 4? Salute !!!


----------



## whirlwind

Since the 5998 switch is on the amp...I always have it on, just so I don't feel I am missing anything.  

It is not necessary , the 5998 tube will still sound good, it is just that it can be pushed harder, and Glenn has allowed that.

I use it for 6336 A/B tubes also.

Listening to some Robert Plant with this combo now.


----------



## 2359glenn

Those that are afraid to use the 5998 switch. When using the 5998 in the OTL the current through it will be lower.
When the switch is on it brings the current back up to normal.  This is not cooking the tubes they are running properly with the switch on.
Don't use it with normal 6AS7s 6BL7s 6BX7s or other 6AS7 types.
Fine to use ir with 6336 it will bring the impedance down


----------



## UntilThen

Alright switch on for 5998 it will be from this point forward. I will do it tonight.


----------



## gibosi

yates7592 said:


> And another one - 5V rectifiers - advice please as to best ones to start out with beyond HEXFRED plug-in.



With respect to 5V rectifiers, this is a good place to start:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/


----------



## leftside

Some good rectifiers here. These are quite rare with the twin getters:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/CV717-5R4G-...ew-Old-Stock-ValveTube-1-pc-A17D/391765269145


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Some good rectifiers here. These are quite rare with the twin getters:
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/CV717-5R4G-...ew-Old-Stock-ValveTube-1-pc-A17D/391765269145



Although labeled Haltron, I believe these were manufactured by Brimar. And I would agree, IMHO, this is a very good rectifier.


----------



## leftside

Yes, I've also read elsewhere they are Brimar. I already have a couple.


----------



## attmci (Jan 10, 2018)

gibosi said:


> Although labeled Haltron, I believe these were manufactured by Brimar. And I would agree, IMHO, this is a very good rectifier.



I still not 100% convinced these are Brimar. Tons of similar tubes on the market. We had discussed offline before (recall those SICTY 5R4GY from Italy?).

It also has an O-getter version.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CV717-5R4G...467618&hash=item5698c38756:g:wssAAOSw5UZY~06-

See the date on the box?

But all these brands (Brimar, Marconi/MWT, Bendix) were acquired by the *Thorn Electrical Industries (later merged with EMI in 1979).

BTY, I promised Matt that I won't buy any more tubes. LOL*


----------



## gibosi

I have seen this tube with rectangular getters, halo getters and round foil getters, and the rectangular getters are likely the earliest. And to my ears, this tube sounds virtually identical to the older Brimar shown on the left, below. Tubes manufactured in the same factory tend to sound the same. And conversely, tubes manufactured in different factories, owned by different companies, tend to sound different.

As for the date on the box, typically the box-date indicates the date the tube was labeled and boxed. It rarely indicates the manufacturing date. After all, Haltron never manufactured a single tube. They bought vacuum tubes from various sources, labeled and boxed them, and offered them for sale. But these particular tubes were likely manufactured long before and sat in a warehouse for quite some time before Halton purchased them.
So we will have to agree to disagree. My ears tell me that these were manufactured by Brimar.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> Marconi, Osram and GEC are all the same company





attmci said:


> But all these brands (Brimar, Marconi/MWT, Bendix) were acquired by the *Thorn Electrical Industries (later merged with EMI in 1979).*



British industrial history is pretty complicated. This site is quite good

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/
but it does take some digging. See, e.g., https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/GEC.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> BTY, I promised Matt that I won't buy any more tubes. LOL



You have my blessings to buy more tubes. 

Even I am tempted to buy a rectifier but I wouldn't know what to do with it except to admire it.


----------



## UntilThen

Quad 5998 with boost switch on. Incredible performance by the uniquely special GOTL. Arnold I'll let you tell us what you hear what you get your quad 5998.


----------



## yates7592 (Jan 11, 2018)

Just wondering, if using 6080 power tubes in OTL, how many are needed and in which socket (adapter?). Thanks.


----------



## whirlwind

You will need a pair of 6080 power tubes and you will not need an adapter, just put them in the power sockets


----------



## 2359glenn

yates7592 said:


> And another one - 5V rectifiers - advice please as to best ones to start out with beyond HEXFRED plug-in.



I will be giving you a 3DG4 rectifier with the amp.
You might concentrate on getting six 6BX7s a couple of good 6AS7s and a pair of C3g's
A 1940s RCA 1633/25SN7 will also come with the amp you can use that and put off buying the C3g's for awhile


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Quad 5998 with boost switch on. Incredible performance by the uniquely special GOTL. Arnold I'll let you tell us what you hear what you get your quad 5998.



About a week more and the 5998 team will be here to meet Darna. I know they will sound great!


----------



## yates7592

2359glenn said:


> I will be giving you a 3DG4 rectifier with the amp.
> You might concentrate on getting six 6BX7s a couple of good 6AS7s and a pair of C3g's
> A 1940s RCA 1633/25SN7 will also come with the amp you can use that and put off buying the C3g's for awhile


Good advice as usual! I have 6BX7's on order, and nearly pulled on C3g's. Just mulling over other options (there are so many...).


----------



## 2359glenn

yates7592 said:


> Good advice as usual! I have 6BX7's on order, and nearly pulled on C3g's. Just mulling over other options (there are so many...).



So many options.
That is the fun of this amp!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

yates7592 said:


> Good advice as usual! I have 6BX7's on order, and nearly pulled on C3g's. Just mulling over other options (there are so many...).



What will you name your amp, yates?


----------



## rnros

yates7592 said:


> Just wondering, if using 6080 power tubes in OTL, how many are needed and in which socket (adapter?). Thanks.



If your GOTL is the version with the Lundhal transformer and 6 power sockets, you can use 4 6080s.

If you want to sample a 6080 without spending too much, 
here's a decent JAN 6080WC ceramic base you can get for $2.99, if you buy 10, $4.50 each if you buy less than 10:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/6080.html
(PartsConnexion sells these on eBay also, with listings ranging from a pair at $18 to a thousand at $3000.)

This is a Philips ECG from 8/85. Manufactured in the Sylvania plant. Has nothing to do with the European production.
Philips bought Sylvania in the early '80s, with this Sylvania plant continuing to manufacture tubes until '87.

Typical price range for this tube would be ~$9-$16. Langrex sells it for 12GBP (~$16):
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/6080wc-jan-philips-ecg-nos-valvetube/


----------



## UntilThen

Woke up this morning and it's one month anniversary of having GOTL. Last year I set out to assemble a stereo system I could enjoy with speakers. I got that and for a while, speakers became my primary means of listening to music. Then GOTL came and now the pendulum has swung back to head-fi. I've been using this tube amp and my headphones mainly.

As Glenn said, this is a fun amp with so many tube options. It's not just fun, it sounds like a Rolls Royce. The hard part is deciding which tubes to use daily.


----------



## UntilThen

Using a Ken Rad 6sn7gt and a pair of Cetron 6336B with Audeze LCD-2f - with boost switch on. There's few life's pleasure than listening to music that sounds so good.... and I have 10 mins left before I have to go to work .....


----------



## UntilThen

Ok so I took 20 mins but who can blame me when this LCD-2f sounds so good on the GOTL !!!

Time to go to work. Bye !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Using a Ken Rad 6sn7gt and a pair of Cetron 6336B with Audeze LCD-2f - with boost switch on. There's few life's pleasure than listening to music that sounds so good.... and I have 10 mins left before I have to go to work .....



What about your amp, Matt...

Did you give it a nickname?


----------



## gibosi

It's been fairly quiet here today, so I thought I would liven things up with a little mesh-plate Type 27 goodness. 

These are Sylvania Type 27, labeled as Philco, manufactured in 1931. What I find interesting is that even in the early 1930s, these have that signature Sylvania sound, very lively with sparkly highs, similar to the 6SN7W. To my ears, Sylvania highs do not match up well with the GEC rectifier I usually use, too much treble, but with the darker Cossar 53KU they have great synergy.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 11, 2018)

Interesting looking tubes, g!!  Externally heated?  Is that adapter still available?


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> It's been fairly quiet here today, so I thought I would liven things up with a little mesh-plate Type 27 goodness.
> 
> These are Sylvania Type 27, labeled as Philco, manufactured in 1931. What I find interesting is that even in the early 1930s, these have that signature Sylvania sound, very lively with sparkly highs, similar to the 6SN7W. To my ears, Sylvania highs do not match up well with the GEC rectifier I usually use, too much treble, but with the darker Cossar 53KU they have great synergy.


In your opinion what is other rectifier that has a dark sound like 53KU?


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Interesting looking tubes, g!! I see two in the drivers seat, that is one one for left and one for the right channel?
> And externally heated?
> 
> I find the bass 'very distinct' in 6SN7W as well....



Yes, these are early single triodes, with globe bottles and mesh plates. They were initially developed by Westinghouse and first marketed as RCA UY-227 in 1927. Each triode requires 1.75A at 2.5V requiring external heating.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> In your opinion what is other rectifier that has a dark sound like 53KU?



5-volt rectifiers: Mullard GZ37, GZ34, GZ33 and GZ32, and
4-volt rectifiers, in addition to Mullard and Cossor, the Mazda UU7 and UU8. And I would include most Philips Eindhoven-made rectifiers.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> 5-volt rectifiers: Mullard GZ37, GZ34, GZ33 and GZ32, and
> 4-volt rectifiers, in addition to Mullard and Cossor, the Mazda UU7 and UU8. And I would include most Philips Eindhoven-made rectifiers.


Thanks for the info Ken
Btw I have pulled the trigger for Brimar 5R4GY as well


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> What about your amp, Matt...
> 
> Did you give it a nickname?



I was going to call it Elvis Presley but I'm afraid the king might come back and sue me so I refrain. It was going to be Ulysses initially but since the amp came home, the name no longer applies. So at the moment it's nameless. I was going to call it UntilThen but that would be infringing on my own copyright. So it is simply GlennOTL for the time being.


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 12, 2018)

gibosi said:


> 5-volt rectifiers: Mullard GZ37, GZ34, GZ33 and GZ32, and
> 4-volt rectifiers, in addition to Mullard and Cossor, the Mazda UU7 and UU8. And I would include most Philips Eindhoven-made rectifiers.



I have to grab me one of these Mullards, I really want to pair it with the HD800 on the EL3N amp.
I am also going to see about some more 80 globe tubes, these are fantastic.

Since they came from old radios... they are labeled Philco, Silvertone,Cunningham, Fado Radio, Westinghouse ect.
I am not sure of the differences in sound, so I should probably check with Glenn.

Glenn, am I correct in assuming that *80, 280, UX280, X280, 380, CX380  *will all work in my amp with the adapter that I have ?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Woke up this morning and it's one month anniversary of having GOTL. Last year I set out to assemble a stereo system I could enjoy with speakers. I got that and for a while, speakers became my primary means of listening to music. Then GOTL came and now the pendulum has swung back to head-fi. I've been using this tube amp and my headphones mainly.
> 
> As Glenn said, this is a fun amp with so many tube options. It's not just fun, it sounds like a Rolls Royce. The hard part is deciding which tubes to use daily.



It's fun to own a Rolls Royce not that I ever will.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I have to grab me one of these Mullards, I really want to pair it with the HD800 on the EL3N amp.
> I am also going to see about some more 80 globe tubes, these are fantastic.
> 
> Since they came from old radios... they are labeled Philco, Silvertone,Cunningham, Fado Radio, Westinghouse ect.
> ...



They are all the same tube the different numbers are from different manufactures . There is also a UX480 from DeForest.


----------



## UntilThen

It's the start of the weekend, which means 48 hours of glorious music. I have connected back Ragnarok because it's a shame to put a $2850 piece of gear on the floor. To my surprise Ragnarok came close to within 85% of GOTL sweetness. It's sharper, more ss tone like - that's shouldn't be a surprise. GOTL however has the good attributes of an ss amp (attack, transient response, definition and clarity) and the glorious tones of tube goodness. More airy, more height, more depth, more plush. It is a Rolls Royce indeed.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> It's fun to own a Rolls Royce not that I ever will.



Your carriage is waiting, Glenn.


----------



## gibosi (Jan 12, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> ......
> I am also going to see about some more 80 globe tubes, these are fantastic.
> 
> Since they came from old radios... they are labeled Philco, Silvertone,Cunningham, Fado Radio, Westinghouse ect.
> ...



I don't know if Arcturus manufactured the Type 80, but it so, it would likely be labeled 180.

Cunninghams are labeled 380 and they are identical to RCA. But very early on, RCA was not a manufacturing company, it was a sales company. And the agreement was that 60% of their radios, tubes and other products were to be sourced from GE and 40% sourced from Westinghouse. So in fact, an RCA Type 80 is really either a GE or a Westinghouse, and it will be necessary to examine the construction to determine which.

And yes, Westinghouse manufactured tubes, and in fact, at that time, it was GE's primary competitor.

Philco sourced the majority of their tubes from Sylvania. But still, to be sure, it will be necessary to compare the construction to a known Sylvania Type 80.

Silvertone sourced the majority of their tubes from National Union. But again, to be sure, it will be necessary to compare the construction to a known National Union Type 80.

Like Philco, the majority of Zenith's tubes were sourced from Sylvania. But they also sourced tubes from Raytheon, Triad and National Union. And again, it will be necessary to examine the construction to determine the actual manufacturer.

I have never heard of Fado, but again, it will be necessary to examine the construction to determine the actual manufacturer.


----------



## gibosi

Received a pair of Speed 227 today. Speed was the brand name of the Cable Radio Tube Corporation, previously known as the Cable Supply Company. According to one of their advertisements they began to manufacture tubes in 1924. However, it appears that by the mid-1930's, likely as a result of the depression, the company went bankrupt.

https://repository.duke.edu/dc/adaccess/R0643

As the Type 80 was introduced by RCA (UX-280) in 1927, it is certainly possible that a Speed Type 80 exists....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Very nice!  Hope they sound as cool as they look


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Received a pair of Speed 227 today. Speed was the brand name of the Cable Radio Tube Corporation, previously known as the Cable Supply Company. According to one of their advertisements they began to manufacture tubes in 1924. However, it appears that by the mid-1930's, likely as a result of the depression, the company went bankrupt.
> 
> https://repository.duke.edu/dc/adaccess/R0643
> 
> As the Type 80 was introduced by RCA (UX-280) in 1927, it is certainly possible that a Speed Type 80 exists....



Look like a Westinghouse.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Look like a Westinghouse.



That's what I thought too! lol 

From the eBay pics, I was quite sure there were manufactured by Westinghouse. They appeared to look identical to a pair of Westinghouse 27 I have manufactured in the summer of 1929. And since I quite like the Westinghouse 27 and the price was right, I grabbed them. However, now that I have them in my hands and can visually compare them, I can see that there are a number of differences, including the getter holder and the cathode assembly above the top mica. So while they certainly look like the Westinghouse 27, I am inclined to believe that in fact Cable manufactured them. And after all, it is an established fact that Cable was a manufacturer of vacuum tubes.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Very nice!  Hope they sound as cool as they look



I do too! But in my experience to date, about half of the old triodes I have purchased are too noisy for modern audio gear. And since I have only the two, it is most likely that at best, only one will be quiet enough. Or both will be too noisy....  But maybe I will get lucky!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> They are all the same tube the different numbers are from different manufactures . There is also a UX480 from DeForest.



Thanks Glenn.





gibosi said:


> I don't know if Arcturus manufactured the Type 80, but it so, it would likely be labeled 180.
> 
> Cunninghams are labeled 380 and they are identical to RCA. But very early on, RCA was not a manufacturing company, it was a sales company. And the agreement was that 60% of their radios, tubes and other products were to be sourced from GE and 40% sourced from Westinghouse. So in fact, an RCA Type 80 is really either a GE or a Westinghouse, and it will be necessary to examine the construction to determine which.
> 
> ...




Wow, thanks for all of that info Ken.
I will do some research so I know what I am looking for...will be on the lookout for some nice pics to compare.
First line of business will be to see if this Philco was made by Sylvania.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I do too! But in my experience to date, about half of the old triodes I have purchased are too noisy for modern audio gear. And since I have only the two, it is most likely that at best, only one will be quiet enough. Or both will be too noisy....  But maybe I will get lucky!




Hoping that they will be quiet for you....heck they are almost 90 years old....amazing that they still light up.  
Really great looking tube.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 12, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> Thanks Glenn.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When looking for the tubes skip any that look dark inside the glass. This is usually due to heavy use and might be weak.
Most are pulled from old radios the tubes are worth more then the hole radio.
I used to make a adapter that allowed a 6L6 to replace a #50 tube.
There were people that wanted to restore nice old radios that all that was wrong
was there valuable #50s were missing to be sold on E-Bay for hundreds.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> When looking for the tubes skip any that look dark inside the glass. This is usually due to heavy use and might be weak.



Yeah, will look for stuff like the one you sent.
I may give Stan a call and see what he has...the 80 globe was listed on the website.


----------



## gibosi

What a nice surprise! These are really quiet! 

But they've been in the amp for less than 15 minutes, so that may change... lol

Like the Westinghouse, they don't put on much of a light show, but as long as they stay quiet, I am more than happy.


----------



## UntilThen

6BL7s in the power seats now. I find myself loving both 6BL7 and 6BX7. The former has a sheen tone while the latter is more 'matte'. Slot in a rebranded Tung Sol 6F8G and it's turn the HD800 into a magical sounding marvel.


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 13, 2018)

I just finished shoveling about 6 inches of snow Matt.
It can stop anytime, LOL.

I am enjoying the same driver tube as you.  I love this tube.
I listen to this combo much of the time...it sounds great and I have a few of them, so its a win win.
I usually will listen to the same combo for a week or two before rolling tubes now days.

Listening to a wonderful Kenny Wayne Shepherd album.





Highly recommended album if you dig the blues.


----------



## yates7592

Can anybody tell me does the Mullard GZ32 work safely in the OTL with 5V rectifier slot? I've read several reports of problems in this thread, but got the impression that the blown ones were re-branded and not 'true' Mullard GZ32?


----------



## JazzVinyl

6F8G owners...Sylvania vs Tung Sol vs others....

Large SQ differences?


----------



## gibosi (Jan 13, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> 6F8G owners...Sylvania vs Tung Sol vs others....
> 
> Large SQ differences?



I have found the 6F8G to sound essentially the same as the corresponding 6SN7GT from the same maker, with the exception of National Union. The NU 6F8G sounds different than both the gray glass and black glass NU 6SN7GT, and in my opinion, it sounds better.

So if one already has WWII-era Tung-Sol, RCA, Ken-Rad and Sylvania 6SN7GT, then there is no compelling reason to get the corresponding 6F8G. But again, to my ears, the NU 6F8G is special.


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 13, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> 6F8G owners...Sylvania vs Tung Sol vs others....
> 
> Large SQ differences?



I only own the Tung Sol 6F8G  tubes.
I have heard that National Union sound good also.

I own two TungSol 6F8G round plate tubes and they sound identical to the Tung Sol 6/12 volt SN7 tubes that I own.
If you own a Tung Sol 6/12 SN7 there is no need for a 6F8G Tung Sol and vice versa






Sometimes you can get lucky and get a rebranded Tung Sol BGRP tube...like UT has with his 6F8G or like this one below on the left...branded RCA




I am sure gibosi can comment more on the sound of the other brands..

ha ha....just realized Ken posted as I was typing this


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I own two TungSol 6F8G round plate tubes and they sound identical to the Tung Sol 6/12 volt SN7 tubes that I own.
> If you own a Tung Sol 6/12 SN7 there is no need for a 6F8G Tung Sol and vice versa



"Sound the same as 6/12 SN7 Tung Sol's" - is what I was interested in.  I do already own have 6SN7 versions. 

I am in line for a Glenn OTL, and don't to 'miss out' on any good sonics.



Appreciate the response, Whirlwind.


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 13, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> "Sound the same as 6/12 SN7 Tung Sol's" - is what I was interested in.  I do already own have 6SN7 versions.
> 
> I am in line for a Glenn OTL, and don't to 'miss out' on any good sonics.
> 
> ...




Congrats to you.
Should be fantastic with all of your vinyl as well as anything else.


----------



## yates7592

JazzVinyl said:


> I am in line for a Glenn OTL, and don't to 'miss out' on any good sonics.



Congrats JazzVinyl, maybe you and me take delivery around the same time, I don't know. 
Me, as a tube noob, I'm a little overwhelmed with all the tube combinations and permutations out there, but at the same time, very excited. Good times ahead.


----------



## rnros

JazzVinyl said:


> "Sound the same as 6/12 SN7 Tung Sol's" - is what I was interested in.  I do already own have 6SN7 versions.
> 
> I am in line for a Glenn OTL, and don't to 'miss out' on any good sonics.
> 
> ...



Congrats on the incoming GOTL. 

If you don't already have the C3g, be sure to pick up a good pair of those.


----------



## UntilThen (Jan 13, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> I just finished shoveling about 6 inches of snow Matt.



I shouldn't be complaining about mowing lawn then. 

I'm listening to the Kenny Wayne Shepherd album now on Tidal. Thanks for this recommendation. All the good blues artists here. I wonder if Jerry "Boogie" McCain has any relation to Mighty Sam McClain. In 1998, I bought my 1st audiophile CD from a friend who brought it to my place to try on my new stereo system. It's "Give It Up To Love" by Mighty Sam McClain.

However, it's the next topic of discussion that's got my interest. *6F8G*. I've never had this tube in the 2 years of tube rolling with my previous tube amps. When I ordered Glenn's OTL, I started getting my driver tubes ready. I bought three 6F8G. One has flat plates and the other pair, round plates. All are Tung Sol rebrand and NOS. I was going to get the adapter from Glenn but seeing the pair of adapters from Poland and it look really good, I bought it. Didn't want to trouble Glenn with making the adapter if necessary but his adapter on your OTL look very nice.

I've read about the Tung Sol 6F8G being much the same in sonics as the famed Tung Sol 6sn7gt bgrp. So thanks to Ken and Joe for confirming. It is one of the best sounding drivers in my collection. Lots of cheaper drivers sounded very good on the Glenn OTL. Such as Brimar 13D1, Ken Rad 1633, and some of my more ordinary 6sn7gt, wgt, gtb. However once I hear the better tubes, I find it hard to go back to other tubes. These 3 are clearly a cut above the rest with the ECC31 being very close behind. My ears and preference though. The GEC and Marconi B36 are close too but it's these 3 that gets my gold award. 

Siemens C3G
Tung Sol 6F8G
Sylvania 6sn7w metal base

I have a pair of used Sylvania 6sn7w bakelite base but they are not super quiet. I'm very fussy. If tubes exhibit a little noise, it bothers me. So I don't use them much.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I usually will listen to the same combo for a week or two before rolling tubes now days.



That's what I will be doing going forward. Having sample most of my tubes, I'm just going to roll with a set of tubes for a week before changing. I have the same tubes as you now. A Tung Sol 6F8G with a pair of Tung Sol 5998. 

One month has passed since I got Glenn's OTL amp. It's still a reference grade amp in my opinion. In 2017, I heard quite a few good sounding amps, including the Woo Audio WA5. If I had to start over again with buying a tube amp, it would still be Glenn's OTL. It is unique and robust in it's construction. I could find no fault with the build after one solid month of usage. It's sonics is definitely up there with the best I've heard. Glenn's OTL, to my ears, sounds better than all of them. I've not had the fortune of listening to a DNA Stratus and EC Zana Deux Super. I hope to have the opportunity one day. It will make for an interesting comparison.


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> Congrats JazzVinyl, maybe you and me take delivery around the same time, I don't know.
> Me, as a tube noob, I'm a little overwhelmed with all the tube combinations and permutations out there, but at the same time, very excited. Good times ahead.



Both you and JV will be in for a treat. @DaemonSire is in line for a super GOTL too I believe.

Don't be overwhelmed with all the tube combinations. I don't believe in quantity. Just get a few top of the line combinations and you'll be as happy as a lark.

Get a pair of C3G and 6 x 6BL7 or 6BX7. Don't need to match on brands. Just make sure they are good tubes and don't exhibit noise.

Get a pair of Cetron 6336 and a pair of 5998.

Get one of the good drivers I talk about above and then just settle back and enjoy.


----------



## leftside

You don't have to tube roll. Plenty of people on here love it, but not me. I went down that rabbit hole and almost didn't come out. Which is one of the reasons I purchased the Glenn 300B with the Taks. Job done.

I've got a bunch of NOS/NIB tubes mentioned on here that I'll eventually get around to selling.

I also found it difficult to hear the differences in sound between the various tubes. Once you've let the tube cool down properly, replace with a new tube and then let that tube warm up properly I'd almost forget what the previous tube sounded like! (unless there was a very obvious difference). Having said that, some tubes did stand out: ECC31 - ECC35, B65 (a little pricey to use tho), WE 421A, 6BL7, Tung Sol 5998, Sylvania metal base.


----------



## UntilThen

B36 and B65 are identical apart from the different heater ratings.
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/126/b/B36.pdf

For a much cheaper price than a B65, you can buy a NOS B36 12.6 volts. This is why I like Glenn's OTL amp with the 6.3 / 12.6 / 25.2 volts switch.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/B36-GEC-ME...991326?hash=item3f8c3175de:g:3OIAAOSw9idaDEZF


----------



## 2359glenn

Not a bad price for a B36.
That is what I am about using cheep tubes and getting the best sound.
The 6BL7/6BX7 can't beat these tubes for the price.
And the EL3N can sound as good as a #45 for only $20


----------



## leftside

It would be worth owning the OTL just for the B36!


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Congrats to you.
> Should be fantastic with all of your vinyl as well as anything else.



Thanks, Whirlwind.  I have wanted a Glenn Amp for a long time.  I appreciate his design effort and assembly craftmanship.



rnros said:


> Congrats on the incoming GOTL.
> 
> If you don't already have the C3g, be sure to pick up a good pair of those.



Thanks, rnros...have two pair of C3g going back to my Little Dot MK IV days.  I thought they sounded awfully great in the LD.   Somehow, they were never as good sounding in my FA Elise.

Looking forward to hearing them properly in an amp that is biased specially for them.



yates7592 said:


> Congrats JazzVinyl, maybe you and me take delivery around the same time, I don't know.
> Me, as a tube noob, I'm a little overwhelmed with all the tube combinations and permutations out there, but at the same time, very excited. Good times ahead.



Thanks yates7592...

I knew you were in line ahead of me, didn't know who else was.  I am not new to tubes and made the Little Dot and Elise run a ton of tubes that they were not designed to run 

That's the fun with a Glenn, his amp will allow all kind of combinations, you will have a lot of fun (and go broke...lol) but you will find THE combnation that
brings you great joy and listening pleasure.

I am a great fan of the 3x 6BL/BX7's per side for power tubes.  I adapted 3x 6BL7's per side to another amp and was quite smitten with these as power tubes.  
His multi-voltage driver socket is genius, too, and breaks down barriers that prevent you from hearing 'other than 6 volt drivers' in other amps (unless you know how, and are willing to externally heat them).

Also appreciate his true point to point wiring and the lack of IC chips in his design as well.

Gonna be a great ride  


Cheers..

.


----------



## UntilThen

Cheap tubes with the best sound. It's a philosophy I admire. No one can dispute that.

Your implementation of all 3 tube amps have been outstandingly successful, going by all the favourable reviews.

The OTL has captured my heart, head and time. So much so I didn't listen to my speakers system for a month. Now I am playing vinyl and listening to the Axis LS88 and it's a light bulb moment.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> It would be worth owning the OTL just for the B36!



Haha... I think that B36 will be gone by the next sunrise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> I have found the 6F8G to sound essentially the same as the corresponding 6SN7GT from the same maker, with the exception of National Union. The NU 6F8G sounds different than both the gray glass and black glass NU 6SN7GT, and in my opinion, it sounds better.
> 
> So if one already has WWII-era Tung-Sol, RCA, Ken-Rad and Sylvania 6SN7GT, then there is no compelling reason to get the corresponding 6F8G. But again, to my ears, the NU 6F8G is special.



Great to know, g...

Just so happens I don't have any NU 6SN7's..,so will keep an eye out for a nice NU 6F8G.

Appreciate!


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Siemens C3G
> Tung Sol 6F8G
> Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
> 
> I have a pair of used Sylvania 6sn7w bakelite base but they are not super quiet. I'm very fussy. If tubes exhibit a little noise, it bothers me. So I don't use them much.



C3g back on top!  And ECC31 falls off the top 3  

So the C3g does not sound 'clinical' in the GOTL and has some warmth?   

I am a big fan of 1940's 6SN7W, so the C3g's have big shoes to fill..!




BTW, I am hereby laying claim the name "*Sophie*" for my amp.  She will be *beautiful *and *sophisticated*.  
So, *Sophie* shall be her nickname.

Cheers...


----------



## UntilThen

My top 3 are in no partucular order. C3g does not sound clinical in GOTL. Transparent and revealing but not at the expense of being clinical.

In my opinion, it's the 6sn7w having big shoes to fill, keeping pace with c3g. 

Nevertheless both are outstanding drivers in the OTL.

And Sophie is a great name.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> My top 3 are in no partucular order. C3g does not sound clinical in GOTL. Transparent and revealing but not at the expense of being clinical.
> 
> In my opinion, it's the 6sn7w having big shoes to fill, keeping pace with c3g.
> 
> ...




Thanks on the *Sophie* designation.

And if it turns out that the 6SN7W will have to run to keep up with C3g....that will be a good thing!


----------



## lukeap69

JazzVinyl said:


> C3g back on top!  And ECC31 falls off the top 3
> 
> So the C3g does not sound 'clinical' in the GOTL and has some warmth?
> 
> ...



Sophie is a wonderful name. A name and amp to love.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lukeap69 said:


> Sophie is a wonderful name. A name and amp to love.



Glad you like the name, Luke...

Cheers!!


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 14, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Glad you like the name, Luke...
> 
> Cheers!!



JV I will give you a 1940s RCA 1633/25SN7  with the amp.


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 14, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> That's what I will be doing going forward. Having sample most of my tubes, I'm just going to roll with a set of tubes for a week before changing. I have the same tubes as you now. A Tung Sol 6F8G with a pair of Tung Sol 5998.
> 
> One month has passed since I got Glenn's OTL amp. It's still a reference grade amp in my opinion. In 2017, I heard quite a few good sounding amps, including the Woo Audio WA5. If I had to start over again with buying a tube amp, it would still be Glenn's OTL. It is unique and robust in it's construction. I could find no fault with the build after one solid month of usage. It's sonics is definitely up there with the best I've heard. Glenn's OTL, to my ears, sounds better than all of them. I've not had the fortune of listening to a DNA Stratus and EC Zana Deux Super. I hope to have the opportunity one day. It will make for an interesting comparison.


 
UT, I would pick mowing the lawn over shoveling snow everyday of the week  

I actually made the mistake when I first got my amp of rolling tubes too fast, not even coming close to enough time for each tube to settle in.
It is very easy to do and you can still hear the differences in tubes, the problem was that most of the tubes once they had sufficient hours on them sounded much better.
A tube that has a little noise can become quiet, bass can tighten up ect.

I also started burning my new power tubes in with a cheap driver tube and vice versa, so I did not feel I was wasting hours with real good tubes burning in.
This would be good advice for  someone who is new to tubes. I  remember talking to Ken about this approach, he mentioned it and it was very good advice.

Eventually I left tubes in for a couple week period and listened to them with dozens of albums instead of just a few select songs....my take on many combos seemed to change, enough that I bought a notebook and started taking notes on different combos
These notes have come in handy and they really help as you can roll so many damn tubes in Glenn's amps that you will at least know what combos you have tried. Glenn told me there would be enough combos to drive me crazy, and that is so very true.
Without notes I felt like a dog chasing his tail.

For new owners, I would suggest taking your time and enjoying the nice long ride, it is a great journey and you will discover combos that just do it for you, maybe even combos that others don't necessarily like or a certain combo that just does it with a particular album.
Take advantage of Glenn's driver circuit, it is the greatest feature in my eyes and it separates his amps from others.  You can find many cheap drivers for this amp and you do not need to find pairs.

While this amp will roll so many tubes that it will make your head spin, I can totally see how people just throw a combo in and enjoy their music, as this is what it is all about.
You do not need to go broke buying tubes...but it is much easier said than done!

When I first received Glenns EL3N amp, it was like, man only tubes that I can roll are rectifier tubes and they seem to make smaller differences than driver tubes for sure..while subtle, after awhile you hear it.
The EL3N tubes also takes much longer to settle than any other tubes I have encountered, pretty finicky actually, when it does it is really glorious.
There is no denying the sound of the EL3N tubes in the topology of Glenn's amp...the sound is like having your very best tube combo in the OTL amp, and maybe even then some...the difference I suppose is transformer output compared to tubes.

Bottom line is that both the OTL and EL3N pack punch well above the price point IMHO.

I can only imagine the sound of the 300B amp...but the price of the tubes and me not being able to use speakers kills it for me.

For me personally, I will never need to look for any other amps, but I would love to hear  many different headphones on both amps.

This all being said, if Glenn comes up with something new,  it would more than likely get my attention.

Enough rambling, lol.

Congrats to all who are in line to get an amp from Glenn...the wait may be long, but you will be rewarded in the end.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Joe, for JV and myself, we're just revisiting tube rolling again after a 2 years period of tube rolling with Elise. In my case, that extends to Euforia and La Figaro 339. All my 6as7 and 6080 power tubes have sufficient hours of burn in with those amps. So much so I could pick out the tone of all my 6as7 and 6080. They are uniquely different. When I got GOTL, I concentrated on the new tubes, namely 6BX7s and some of the new drivers. I don't find the 6BX7 changing much over time. You could pick out their tone even at the beginning.

EL3N is different though and some of the other pentodes - EL11 and EL12. Those do evolve over many hours but not in so much as to become completely different sounding tubes. By the time I sold Elise and all the EL3N tubes to Ross, those tubes are already burned in, in access of 150 hours.

What I do notice is that when using the various 6as7 and 6080 on the different tube amps, the amps sonic signature have a more overriding bearing on the tube tone. When listening to those power tubes that I'm familiar with in GOTL, there's a different interesting take.


----------



## 2359glenn

My amp has a totally different output stage then the La Figaro and FA amps that are both cathode follower outputs. 
I run the 6AS7 completely different have a different sound and more drive.


----------



## 2359glenn

My dam heat is out and it is 17deg F or -8 deg C  Bad day Sunday the blower motor burned out
and can't get one until tomorrow.
Going to be a cold night.


----------



## gibosi

I certainly hope you have some portable heaters!


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> My dam heat is out and it is 17deg F or -8 deg C  Bad day Sunday the blower motor burned out
> and can't get one until tomorrow.
> Going to be a cold night.


Watch out for the water pipes - maybe let the faucets drip. Here it was 12F this morning.

Wishing you good luck on getting your heating system fixed right away!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> My amp has a totally different output stage then the La Figaro and FA amps that are both cathode follower outputs.
> I run the 6AS7 completely different have a different sound and more drive.



That explains why I hear the power tubes sounding a bit different on GOTL and that includes 6BL7. There's a bounce to the tone. More drive, more dynamic and more punch. Certainly sounded better to my ears.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> My dam heat is out and it is 17deg F or -8 deg C  Bad day Sunday the blower motor burned out
> and can't get one until tomorrow.
> Going to be a cold night.



Ouy, stay warm Glenn.  Ace Hardware sells an electric infrared heater for today/tonight.  
You will have to break out the long underwear and electric blankets too...

And don't forget, that souldering iron puts out some heat.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> For new owners, I would suggest taking your time and enjoying the nice long ride, it is a great journey and you will discover combos that just do it for you, maybe even combos that others don't necessarily like or a certain combo that just does it with a particular album.
> Take advantage of Glenn's driver circuit, it is the greatest feature in my eyes and it separates his amps from others.  You can find many cheap drivers for this amp and you do not need to find pairs.
> 
> Congrats to all who are in line to get an amp from Glenn...the wait may be long, but you will be rewarded in the end.



Excellent post. Whirlwind and great advice.

I know I have loved combinations that others didn't and I have not liked some tubes that everyone else liked.  So it really is a
combination of all the individual components, included the listeners' ears that will make your favorite tube combo, special.

I think you should publish your notebook on a blog site called:  "I Heard The Glass"...

Cheers...


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Excellent post. Whirlwind and great advice.
> 
> I know I have loved combinations that others didn't and I have not liked some tubes that everyone else liked.  So it really is a
> combination of all the individual components, included the listeners' ears that will make your favorite tube combo, special.
> ...


Hi JV,

Great idea - I think my next amp will be called IHG - (I Heard the Glass)!


----------



## attmci

JazzVinyl said:


> Ouy, stay warm Glenn.  Ace Hardware sells an electric infrared heater for today/tonight.
> You will have to break out the long underwear and electric blankets too...
> 
> And don't forget, that souldering iron puts out some heat.


Nope. Just turn on all the tube amps. Stay warm.


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> Nope. Just turn on all the tube amps. Stay warm.



I have 3 on now two 300B amps and a tube preamp it's helping I think.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> JV I will give you a 1940s RCA 1633/25SN7  with the amp.



Looking forward, Glenn!

Hope you are staying warm!


----------



## 2359glenn

Still have running water for some reason this morning.
16 deg F -9 C this morning the plug in electric heaters worked well keeping the house worm.
Was worried about the water pipes freezing so got up every hour and ran water all night.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Still have running water for some reason this morning.
> 16 deg F -9 C this morning the plug in electric heaters worked well keeping the house worm.
> Was worried about the water pipes freezing so got up every hour and ran water all night.




Glad you made it through the night, hope you get everything all taken care of today.
We have had to do this a few years ago and it is a real PITA.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Still have running water for some reason this morning.
> 16 deg F -9 C this morning the plug in electric heaters worked well keeping the house worm.
> Was worried about the water pipes freezing so got up every hour and ran water all night.



Yeah, Glenn!!

Happy that electric heat was sufficient.  I have been told that my Heating Appliance is too old for a replacement fan, that when mine goes, it will be "replace the whole shee-bang" time.
So be glad you can get a replacement fan.

Hope you get everything straightened out, today.


----------



## leftside

Just fire up a couple of 300B's. You'll be fine!


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Just fire up a couple of 300B's. You'll be fine!



The two 300B mono block amps go on as soon as I get home from work. Helps a little.


----------



## rnros

16 degF. Bad timing for a heater failure! Definitely a royal PITA.
I'm sure the 300B's are helping a little, but hope you have the repair underway. 
Another storm coming. Inga. But not as bad as it has been.


----------



## 2359glenn

Heat is fixed and is on


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Heat is fixed and is on


Reminds me it's time to change the filter. 

Glad you fixed the heating.


----------



## whirlwind

Glad to hear, Glenn.

Snowing again here.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Heat is fixed and is on



Well done!   Very light snow here, too..and 21 F (6 C )


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Well done!   Very light snow here, too..and 21 F (6 C )



JazzVinyl, where are you located ?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Colorado - south of Denver.  Where are you?


----------



## whirlwind

Central Ohio


----------



## JazzVinyl

Have peeps in Akron...


----------



## leftside

How about snow and fog? Not so bad when you can get above the fog and onto the snow.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Glad to hear, Glenn.
> 
> Snowing again here.



Your snow is going to get here on Wednesday.
You and Ken can keep it.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> How about snow and fog? Not so bad when you can get above the fog and onto the snow.



Nice pictures nice to look at that is about it.


----------



## gibosi (Jan 15, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Your snow is going to get here on Wednesday.
> You and Ken can keep it.



We don't want it here either! I figure we need to build a nice long mountain range along the northern border of the US which would keep all that cold arctic air in Canada. Personally, I think this is a much better idea than building a wall between Mexico and US. But then, those in power never ask for my advice. lol


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 15, 2018)

Here is some tube warmth to help everyone in the Northern Hemisphere...stay warm


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> We don't want it here either! I figure we need to build a nice long mountain range along the northern border of the US which would keep all that cold arctic air in Canada. Personally, I think this is a much better idea than building a wall between Mexico and US. But then, those in power never ask for my advice. lol



This has my vote!


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> We don't want it here either! I figure we need to build a nice long mountain range along the northern border of the US which would keep all that cold arctic air in Canada. Personally, I think this is a much better idea than building a wall between Mexico and US. But then, those in power never ask for my advice. lol


This gave me a good laugh Ken. Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hay Arnold we should send the snow over to you.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> Hay Arnold we should send the snow over to you.


You know what Glenn, I haven't seen real snow. The only thing closed I have seen is the man-made snow at Ski Dubai.


----------



## MIKELAP

gibosi said:


> We don't want it here either! I figure we need to build a nice long mountain range along the northern border of the US which would keep all that cold arctic air in Canada. Personally, I think this is a much better idea than building a wall between Mexico and US. But then, those in power never ask for my advice. lol


Sorry Ken we just like to share . Very cold here this winter some  days went down  almost -40F with windchill .


----------



## leftside

MIKELAP said:


> Sorry Ken we just like to share . Very cold here this winter some  days went down  almost -40F with windchill .


Hey - speak for yourself  Not all Canada is like that. A balmy 10 degrees C here today in Vancouver (50 degrees F for our American friends). 

Most Canadians would be extremely happy with that wall between the US and Canada  Would be even happier if it was sloped on our side with a chair lift.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Hey - speak for yourself  Not all Canada is like that. A balmy 10 degrees C here today in Vancouver (50 degrees F for our American friends).
> 
> Most Canadians would be extremely happy with that wall between the US and Canada  Would be even happier if it was sloped on our side with a chair lift.


----------



## leftside

^^^ Whistler - Emerald area. Great season again so far.


----------



## mordy (Jan 16, 2018)

leftside said:


> ^^^ Whistler - Emerald area. Great season again so far.


Correct location - well done!

Now where is this?


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> You know what Glenn, I haven't seen real snow. The only thing closed I have seen is the man-made snow at Ski Dubai.



That is why I said that I figured you needed to see some snow and be cold too.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> You know what Glenn, I haven't seen real snow. The only thing closed I have seen is the man-made snow at Ski Dubai.



Oh man Arnold, if just twitching my nose would send it your way...then you should be getting it anytime now!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Have peeps in Akron...



That is about one hour north of me, and at that point you are at what is considered the snow belt in Ohio.








MIKELAP said:


> Sorry Ken we just like to share . Very cold here this winter some  days went down  almost -40F with windchill .



Man, that is nasty....it is suppose to be  1F here in the morning, not sure how hard the wind will be whipping.

I do know that it is cold enough that nothing operates the way it should.

Car doors wont open, windows wont roll down....I just took my trash can through the yard about  25 yards out to the alley...through about a foot of drifted snow.Had to tug my butt off to get it there...once I returned to the house, my wife told me...."Trashman came yesterday"


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> That is about one hour north of me, and at that point you are at what is considered the snow belt in Ohio.



Yes, I hear them complain about the snow, very often.   Snow out here is dry / powdery, you just brush it off with a broom.  They get that wet heavy/sticky sloppy stuff....


----------



## MIKELAP

whirlwind said:


> That is about one hour north of me, and at that point you are at what is considered the snow belt in Ohio.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why the importance of having a garage in weather this cold worth every penny. There even saying that there is a car battery shortage because of the cold winter were having .Cant wait to get the december & january electric bill


----------



## 2359glenn

MIKELAP said:


> Why the importance of having a garage in weather this cold worth every penny. There even saying that there is a car battery shortage because of the cold winter were having .Cant wait to get the december & january electric bill



I can't wait ether have electric heat. Heat pump that don't work in this cold with electric backup in the unit. 
240 volt 90 amps that gets the meter spinning.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, I hear them complain about the snow, very often.   Snow out here is dry / powdery, you just brush it off with a broom.  They get that wet heavy/sticky sloppy stuff....


Hi JV,

I was once in the Canadian Rockies in the winter. I wanted to make a snowball but couldn't. The snow was so dry that it did not stick together, like salt. I know people in Alberta that use a leafblower to clear up the snow on the sidewalk - it's that light.
Here in New York the snow is very heavy and wet - tough to clear up. We are getting a snow storm coming - 4-8 ".


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yes Mordy...
Unusual to see a snowman here for just that reason.  The snow has very little moisture in it.

I lived on the Eastern Seaboard for many years and am familiar with the heavy wet mess you get out east.

I will take the light dry fluffy stuff, any day.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 17, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> I can't wait ether have electric heat. Heat pump that don't work in this cold with electric backup in the unit.
> 240 volt 90 amps that gets the meter spinning.



Heat Pumps.   Not so good when the outside temps are not within 20 or so degrees of the desired inside temps.


----------



## gibosi

With ice and snow outside, this is a good time to work on tubes. 

Finally managed to acquire a quiet pair of Majestic #27. Majestic was a brand name owned by Grigsby-Grunow located in Chicago. They were a major radio manufacturer in the 1920's and began to manufacture vacuum tubes in 1929. However, as a result of the depression, they folded in 1933. Thus one can infer that all Majestic tubes were manufactured between 1929 and 1933.

In terms of design, these are fairly primitive. A glass roll instead of mica was used to maintain the proper spacing of the cathode, grid and anode at the top. RCA began to use mica instead of glass on their #27s around 1929, but it appears that Grigsby-Grunow used glass until the company folded.

And perhaps due to the primitive design, most of the Majestic #27s I have tried are too noisy. Two good tubes out of nine, about 20%, is pretty bad. However, all together, I paid about $7 per tube, so one might say that I spent $63 to get one good pair, so I don't feel too bad....


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 17, 2018)

That is not bad for a pair of nice sounding tubes especially that old.
I went through many pairs of 26 tubes to find a quiet pair. I found Canadian GE and Westinghouse with modern getters
were the Quietest. Don't know who made them both the GE and Westinghouse look identical on the inside.
Now I have a globe Eveready/Raytheon box plate that is completely Quiet.
The SQ from these old triodes can't be beat by any more modern tube. TSBGRP6SN7 and B65 go and hide.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> With ice and snow outside, this is a good time to work on tubes.
> 
> Finally managed to acquire a quiet pair of Majestic #27. Majestic was a brand name owned by Grigsby-Grunow located in Chicago. They were a major radio manufacturer in the 1920's and began to manufacture vacuum tubes in 1929. However, as a result of the depression, they folded in 1933. Thus one can infer that all Majestic tubes were manufactured between 1929 and 1933.
> 
> ...


Hi Ken,
Does it sound a lot different as compared type 76?
I have ordered 76 twice, all got rejected by the global shipping


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> With ice and snow outside, this is a good time to work on tubes.
> 
> Finally managed to acquire a quiet pair of Majestic #27. Majestic was a brand name owned by Grigsby-Grunow located in Chicago. They were a major radio manufacturer in the 1920's and began to manufacture vacuum tubes in 1929. However, as a result of the depression, they folded in 1933. Thus one can infer that all Majestic tubes were manufactured between 1929 and 1933.
> 
> ...




I am going to say that is not bad at all Ken.
$63 for a  nice quiet pair of 27's....those are some old tubes!!!

Heck, I would even say that is a  good deal....especially being that only about 20% seem to be quiet.

Congrats on getting a quiet pair.


----------



## 2359glenn

A foot of heavy wet snow and ice and my TV antenna just crashed down.
Guess I didn't want to watch TV anyway


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> A foot of heavy wet snow and ice and my TV antenna just crashed down.
> Guess I didn't want to watch TV anyway



Wow.  How much snow do you have ?


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Wow.  How much snow do you have ?



A foot of heavy wet snow.
This is a disaster in North Carolina  the state in in a state of emergency.
Would be nothing were I lived in Upstate New York.

Just ordered a new antenna and masts should get them on Monday.
Going to be hell putting it up in my bad condition.

Still think Joe and Ken sent it here.


----------



## whirlwind

Holy crap, we did not even get a foot.

Maybe get someone to put it up for you, damn, you don't need to be doing any climbing.
I imagine the state has pretty much shut down. I bet there have been many car accidents and fender benders.
Is it still snowing ?  
The wet stuff is a PITA to shovel.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Hi Ken,
> Does it sound a lot different as compared type 76?
> *I have ordered 76 twice, all got rejected by the global shipping*



This is one of the reasons that I refuse to do business with any seller who uses global shipping.... It is very friendly to the shipper but very unfriendly to the buyer...

Comparing the #27 and the #76 is a future project... And it is a bit complicated... 

When the #27 was introduced in 1927, RCA was a wholly owned subsidiary of GE. And GE-made RCA #27 were manufactured at the Ivanhoe factory (Cleveland, Ohio), the NELA Park factory (Cleveland, Ohio), the Newark, NJ factory and the Harrison, NJ factory. (And from the literature, it appears that the #27 was also manufactured at the Schenectady, NY factory, but I have yet to come across one.) My favorite #76 are RCA-made and they were manufactured in 1936 at the Harrison, NJ factory. (As the result of a consent decree in 1932, GE was required to divest its interest in RCA, and additionally, GE's Harrison factory was transferred to RCA.) So it makes sense to compare a pair of #76 to a pair of #27 manufactured at the same Harrison factory, but six years earlier. However, I have yet to obtain a quiet pair of Harrison-made #27....

RCA #76 and #27, Harrison Works.


----------



## gibosi (Jan 17, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> A foot of heavy wet snow.
> This is a disaster in North Carolina  the state in in a state of emergency.
> Would be nothing were I lived in Upstate New York.
> 
> ...



I tried to send it back to Canada... But it appears I wasn't successful. lol 

We have about 8 inches on the ground. However, the city has done a great job of keeping the streets plowed and passable. For me personally, it is the cold temperatures. The prediction is another night of about 10F (-12C).


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Holy crap, we did not even get a foot.
> 
> Maybe get someone to put it up for you, damn, you don't need to be doing any climbing.
> I imagine the state has pretty much shut down. I bet there have been many car accidents and fender benders.
> ...



Still snowing at 8:30 supposed go down to 13 deg tonight. Going to be fun driving to work on frozen not plowed roads tomorrow. 
1600 car accidents and 30,000 people with no power before the TV went out.


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> Hi Ken,
> Does it sound a lot different as compared type 76?
> I have ordered 76 twice, all got rejected by the global shipping



I can order them for you just pick them on E-Bay then send me the money + shipping


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> I can order them for you just pick them on E-Bay then send me the money + shipping



Here we ended up with 4 inches of wet snow but very slippery until they cleared the roads. Now it is getting very cold (19F) and people are warning about black ice. Comes the weekend everything will melt with temperatures up to 49F.
About getting older and more fragile - as time marches on you learn to do things in a more efficient and less taxing way, but the humbling moment comes when you realize that you can't do any more what used to be a piece of cake. 
Either you don't do it, or you have to ask for help. Heck, my thirteen year old grandson can lift something heavier than I can.......


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Still snowing at 8:30 supposed go down to 13 deg tonight. Going to be fun driving to work on frozen not plowed roads tomorrow.
> 1600 car accidents and 30,000 people with no power before the TV went out.



You will have to leave for work a couple hours early!  

My wife and I watch about the weather down there last night on TV...what a mess.

Like Ken said, it is cold here and we have snow on the ground, but the roads are plowed here in my small town also...so you can get around as long as you drive sensible.

Stay safe.

My head-fi buddy from Tennessee sent me this


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Here we ended up with 4 inches of wet snow but very slippery until they cleared the roads. Now it is getting very cold (19F) and people are warning about black ice. Comes the weekend everything will melt with temperatures up to 49F.
> About getting older and more fragile - as time marches on you learn to do things in a more efficient and less taxing way, but the humbling moment comes when you realize that you can't do any more what used to be a piece of cake.
> Either you don't do it, or you have to ask for help. Heck, my thirteen year old grandson can lift something heavier than I can.......




I am starting to realize this more every passing year mordy....the older I get, the more afraid of heights I get.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> A foot of heavy wet snow and ice and my TV antenna just crashed down.
> Guess I didn't want to watch TV anyway



Weather is getting crazy this year. It's just too extreme cold up north now. Be careful with installing the antenna. Hope you can get someone to do it.


----------



## UntilThen

We're getting some really hot days down under. It's will be in the 40s again today.

Been listening with this fdd20 tube for a few days. Such a lovely tone. One of the best but there's a soft hum and that happens on 2 tubes so far. Pins are cleaned and seated correctly.


----------



## MIKELAP

2359glenn said:


> A foot of heavy wet snow.
> This is a disaster in North Carolina  the state in in a state of emergency.
> Would be nothing were I lived in Upstate New York.
> 
> ...


----------



## Hansotek

MIKELAP said:


>



We only break out the big coats when it gets to -20F or so. Today it’s a balmy 39. As we say in Minnesota... “Not the worst! Ya barely hafta wear a windbreaker over yer Case Keenum jersey, doncha know?”


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 18, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> You will have to leave for work a couple hours early!
> 
> My wife and I watch about the weather down there last night on TV...what a mess.
> 
> ...



This is quite funny but I have to make some corrections.

>1" schools closed for 3 days and stores emptied This happened about 3 weeks ago.
1" to 4" catastrophic and most people don't show for work.
8" to 12" everything closed including McDonalds I couldn't get a egg McMuffin this morning What.   May have lost my business to Hardies that was open this morning
Everything more the end of the world. And the little burrowing mammals take over like they should smarter then the people. And they can get around in the snow.

As you can tell I am a northerner.

Lucy and I just laugh at all of them.


----------



## whirlwind

Hansotek said:


> We only break out the big coats when it gets to -20F or so. Today it’s a balmy 39. As we say in Minnesota... “Not the worst! Ya barely hafta wear a windbreaker over yer Case Keenum jersey, doncha know?”



Ha ha...good one.
Man, Case Keenum is playing very well, and that defense is stout!
I am rooting for the Vikings to knock off Philly!




2359glenn said:


> This is quite funny but I have to make some corrections.
> 
> >1" schools closed for 3 days and stores emptied This happened about 3 weeks ago.
> 1" to 4" catastrophic and most people don't show for work.
> ...




Oh man, no Mcdonalds...I love the Egg McMuffin,  I always get mine with bacon.

I agree, burrowing mammals are smarter


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> We're getting some really hot days down under. It's will be in the 40s again today.
> 
> Been listening with this fdd20 tube for a few days. Such a lovely tone. One of the best but there's a soft hum and that happens on 2 tubes so far. Pins are cleaned and seated correctly.



Very nice!!!  

This is the tube compliment that I will be interested in.

Wonder where the soft hum is coming from?   Try some tin foil around the plastic adapter?


----------



## 2359glenn

Just finished another OTL amp will let it burn in over the weekend then ship next week.
Sounds nice it has only been on a 1/2 hour.


----------



## UntilThen

Wonder who is the lucky chap. It will sound good for sure. I'm still enjoying mine daily.


----------



## yates7592

Matt, what are your favourite cans with OTL?


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> Matt, what are your favourite cans with OTL?



This ... in particular this setup. Who would have known HD800 is now beef up, has a good solid bass, in addition to it attributes - superb clarity and wide soundstage.


----------



## UntilThen

What headphones are you using Paul?


----------



## UntilThen

My fav cans with the OTL are what's shown here ...


----------



## yates7592

UntilThen said:


> What headphones are you using Paul?



HD800! Just what I wanted to hear!


----------



## raybone0566

Glenn
Will GZ32 work in el3n amplifier
Thks


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> My fav cans with the OTL are what's shown here ...



Very nice   

My son is going to be gone from home for awhile, so i bought a monitor stand so that I could fit both amps on my desktop.
It is getting a bit crowded though.

Going to listen to the Grado RS1  today.
Music soothes my soul!

Congrats to the owner got the new OTL...good times ahead.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> My son is going to be gone from home for awhile, so i bought a monitor stand so that I could fit both amps on my desktop.
> It is getting a bit crowded though.



Looks neat and fine collection of gear and headphones. There's still room on the desk for writing.

My large L shaped desk is full with a PC, 2 screens, Yggy, Rag and GOTL plus a printer. Oh the Bose Companion 5 speakers which haven't been turn on for a year.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 20, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Wonder who is the lucky chap. It will sound good for sure. I'm still enjoying mine daily.





UntilThen said:


> This ... in particular this setup. Who would have known HD800 is now beef up, has a good solid bass, in addition to it attributes - superb clarity and wide soundstage.



This amp turns the HD-800 into a new headphone the sound becomes unbelievable good. Originally built this
for the HD-650 then the HD-800 8 years ago


----------



## whirlwind

raybone0566 said:


> Glenn
> Will GZ32 work in el3n amplifier
> Thks



Yes, it will work fine.





UntilThen said:


> Looks neat and fine collection of gear and headphones. There's still room on the desk for writing.
> 
> My large L shaped desk is full with a PC, 2 screens, Yggy, Rag and GOTL plus a printer. Oh the Bose Companion 5 speakers which haven't been turn on for a year.



I would like more space, but in this cape cod, everybody is after every inch they can get


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 20, 2018)

raybone0566 said:


> Glenn
> Will GZ32 work in el3n amplifier
> Thks



Yes the GZ32 will work fine in the EL3N amp probably sound good too
You can use almost all 5 volt rectifiers in this amp.


----------



## yates7592

UntilThen said:


> This ... in particular this setup. Who would have known HD800 is now beef up, has a good solid bass, in addition to it attributes - superb clarity and wide soundstage.



Matt, which tubes are those in your favourite set up with HD800? 
I bought (and sold) HD800 twice over the years, and am just about to buy my 3rd set! Along the way I've bought (and sold) Abyss/Headtrip and SR009/Carbon. Neither really did it for me. I keep coming back to HD800, and now with great anticipation with Glenn OTL, a Dana Lazulli cable and the SDR mod. Can't wait to give the new rig a serious listen.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Amazing collections of gear, gents!!


----------



## lukeap69

@UntilThen , @whirlwind 

The 5998's are in. They have replaced my TS 7236 on my Darna. With my HD800 SD on my head, I was expecting the difference to be subtle. I was screwing wrong! The tone of the 5998 is very delicious. More resolving. I was expecting a little anemic bass. Nope, bass is wonderful on my HD800. I almost forgot how good my Darna and HD800 amp sound. Though I like the 7236 enough to stay in my amp for few months, they needed to go to my tube vault now!

I will let  the 5998 settle in for a week or so, then I will roll my favourite GEC 6AS7. I will be deprived with sleep again. This is bad!!!


----------



## Hansotek

yates7592 said:


> Matt, which tubes are those in your favourite set up with HD800?
> I bought (and sold) HD800 twice over the years, and am just about to buy my 3rd set! Along the way I've bought (and sold) Abyss/Headtrip and SR009/Carbon. Neither really did it for me. I keep coming back to HD800, and now with great anticipation with Glenn OTL, a Dana Lazulli cable and the SDR mod. Can't wait to give the new rig a serious listen.



Just wanted to chime in, since I have the HD800/Lazuli/GOTL combo. I am loving the combo of a Mullard ECC31 (with ECC31>ECC33 adaptor), Philips Miniwatt GZ34 (metal base) rectifier, and four Sylvania 6BL7 power tubes.

Everything works in synergy here. HD800 & Sylvania 6BL7s give you a huge soundstage and tons of air. Mullard ECC31 and DanaCable Lazuli give you the perfect amount of warmth, impact and bass slam. HD800 + Miniwatt GZ34 gives you great transparency, depth layering and overall technicality without sacrificing an ounce of musicality.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> @UntilThen , @whirlwind
> 
> The 5998's are in. They have replaced my TS 7236 on my Darna. With my HD800 SD on my head, I was expecting the difference to be subtle. I was screwing wrong! The tone of the 5998 is very delicious. More resolving. I was expecting a little anemic bass. Nope, bass is wonderful on my HD800. I almost forgot how good my Darna and HD800 amp sound. Though I like the 7236 enough to stay in my amp for few months, they needed to go to my tube vault now!
> 
> I will let  the 5998 settle in for a week or so, then I will roll my favourite GEC 6AS7. I will be deprived with sleep again. This is bad!!!




They are a great sounding tube....sorry about your sleep,  Arnold.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> They are a great sounding tube....sorry about your sleep,  Arnold.



Agreed very much Joe. Now listening with Scorpions Still Loving You and I can't just stop admiring the sound of this combo.


----------



## yates7592

Hansotek said:


> Just wanted to chime in, since I have the HD800/Lazuli/GOTL combo. I am loving the combo of a Mullard ECC31 (with ECC31>ECC33 adaptor), Philips Miniwatt GZ34 (metal base) rectifier, and four Sylvania 6BL7 power tubes.
> 
> Everything works in synergy here. HD800 & Sylvania 6BL7s give you a huge soundstage and tons of air. Mullard ECC31 and DanaCable Lazuli give you the perfect amount of warmth, impact and bass slam. HD800 + Miniwatt GZ34 gives you great transparency, depth layering and overall technicality without sacrificing an ounce of musicality.



Great info, thanks. By luck, I have just ordered some Sylvania 6BL7 and also Mullard ECC31. I need to look at the rectifier further, but have also got GZ37 on order, it might be too warm I don't know yet. Super excited to get HD800 up and running again, the soundstage is just amazing. With the added warmth and body of GOTL I need to start getting some early nights to prepare for the long sessions.


----------



## raybone0566

2359glenn said:


> Yes the GZ32 will work fine in the EL3N amp probably sound good too
> You can use almost all 5 volt rectifiers in this amp.


Ok thanks. Looks like the el3n tubes are arriving today. Had to work today but listening to the amp had me up way past bedtime.


----------



## Hansotek

yates7592 said:


> Great info, thanks. By luck, I have just ordered some Sylvania 6BL7 and also Mullard ECC31. I need to look at the rectifier further, but have also got GZ37 on order, it might be too warm I don't know yet. Super excited to get HD800 up and running again, the soundstage is just amazing. With the added warmth and body of GOTL I need to start getting some early nights to prepare for the long sessions.



GL37 is nice, depending on which version  you got. Definitely a warmer sounding tube. You may actually find you don’t even need the SDR mod anymore, as I think the DanaCable and any warm tube compliment will tame the HD800’s treble quite nicely. YMMV, of course, since everyone has different sensitivities.


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> Matt, which tubes are those in your favourite set up with HD800?
> I bought (and sold) HD800 twice over the years, and am just about to buy my 3rd set! Along the way I've bought (and sold) Abyss/Headtrip and SR009/Carbon. Neither really did it for me. I keep coming back to HD800, and now with great anticipation with Glenn OTL, a Dana Lazulli cable and the SDR mod. Can't wait to give the new rig a serious listen.



I've Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x Los Gatos / Fivre 6bx7gt in that setup. There are many drivers that will sound amazing too with the 6BL7 / 6BX7. Hansotek mention ECC31. That's a very good tone. More warm and lush than 6sn7w. There's also c3g, TS 6F8G... a whole bunch of them, including Ken Rad 6sn7gt, 1633, Marconi B36.... etc etc. 

On the whole I prefer sextet 6BX7 as power tubes but there are so many other power tubes that will make HD800 sound great in GOTL. I feel guilty that my GEC 6as7g, Bendix 6080wb, Tung Sol 5998 aren't being used as much because those are really great sounding power tubes too. Also do try the 6336b.

I heard the Abyss during last Oct 2017 Sydney local meet, on my Yggy and Rag combo. I like it but it needed more juice. Rag will drive it but the volume is quite high up at 2pm. I like Utopia more on my Schitt gear. I hope to hear one soon on the GOTL when my friend has the time to come over.

A Dana Lazuli cable.. heard this cable is good but I'm happy with my Forza Audioworks cable. Honestly I like aftermarket cables for their looks and flexibility. Maybe it does sound better but I don't want to analyse cables too much.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> @UntilThen , @whirlwind
> 
> The 5998's are in. They have replaced my TS 7236 on my Darna. With my HD800 SD on my head, I was expecting the difference to be subtle. I was screwing wrong! The tone of the 5998 is very delicious. More resolving. I was expecting a little anemic bass. Nope, bass is wonderful on my HD800. I almost forgot how good my Darna and HD800 amp sound. Though I like the 7236 enough to stay in my amp for few months, they needed to go to my tube vault now!
> 
> I will let  the 5998 settle in for a week or so, then I will roll my favourite GEC 6AS7. I will be deprived with sleep again. This is bad!!!



They don't call the 5998 the 'Benchmark' for nothing.   Did you use two or four 5998? I think two is enough but four has the added force of the Jedi. 

5998 and 7236 are definitely more than subtle difference. 

Then there's the GEC 6as7g. Now you know why I have gone bananas in the 1st month, wanting to hear every single tube ASAP in the GOTL. Now I am more settled and am listening to music ....


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> Great info, thanks. By luck, I have just ordered some Sylvania 6BL7 and also Mullard ECC31. I need to look at the rectifier further, but have also got GZ37 on order, it might be too warm I don't know yet. Super excited to get HD800 up and running again, the soundstage is just amazing. With the added warmth and body of GOTL I need to start getting some early nights to prepare for the long sessions.



ZMF Eikon, Atticus and LCD-2f sound great on the GOTL. The added bass is infectious but HD800 on the GOTL is more my kind of tone. It's super clear, more airy and instruments separation is first class. 

I've 2 persons over at my place to listen to my head-fi. My speaker designer, John Reilly, prefers the Audeze LCD-2f. That's a surprise to me and I can assure you he has the best ears for sound. 

2nd guy is an audiophile who loves good 2 channels stereo system. He was quite shocked by the clarity from HD800 on GOTL and the HD800 is his favourite too of my 4 headphones.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> ZMF Eikon, Atticus and LCD-2f sound great on the GOTL. The added bass is infectious but HD800 on the GOTL is more my kind of tone. It's super clear, more airy and instruments separation is first class.
> 
> I've 2 persons over at my place to listen to my head-fi. My speaker designer, John Reilly, prefers the Audeze LCD-2f. That's a surprise to me and I can assure you he has the best ears for sound.
> 
> 2nd guy is an audiophile who loves good 2 channels stereo system. He was quite shocked by the clarity from HD800 on GOTL and the HD800 is his favourite too of my 4 headphones.



Now you need a EL3N to make those LCD-2f sing


----------



## JazzVinyl

A single National Union 6F8G (a gibosi recommendation) arrived today.

Can't wait to hear it.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> A single National Union 6F8G (a gibosi recommendation) arrived today.
> 
> Can't wait to hear it.



Do you have adapters for them?


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Do you have adapters for them?



I have one, inbound.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> I have one, inbound.



You only need one with the OTL


----------



## JazzVinyl

Right-o - a single tube and single adapter were purchased.....to add to my anticipation


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Now you need a EL3N to make those LCD-2f sing



Hohoho Christmas 2018 might come early for me and I have to get John Reilly to listen to it again.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> A single National Union 6F8G (a gibosi recommendation) arrived today.
> 
> Can't wait to hear it.



I saw this tube but decided I will pass on it. I have enough tubes. Glad you got it.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Now you need a EL3N to make those LCD-2f sing



How does the LCD-2f sound with the GEL3N compared to the Senn.HD-800?  Anyone...?


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> How does the LCD-2f sound with the GEL3N compared to the Senn.HD-800?  Anyone...?



If you send me GEL3N, I'll tell you. Failing that, Joe will tell you how ZMF Ori and HD800 sound on GEL3N and his OTL.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> If you send me GEL3N, I'll tell you. Failing that, Joe will tell you how ZMF Ori and HD800 sound on GEL3N and his OTL.



Scarlett doesn't have her passport, so I think it would be better if you send me your LCD-2f HP for the evaluation.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Scarlett doesn't have her passport, so I think it would be better if you send me your LCD-2f HP for the evaluation.



I was going to trade my Ragnarok and LCD-2f for your Scarlett but now listening to the Audeze on GOTL with Voskhod 6N23p and 6 x 6BX7, it's a 'OMG' moment. Dat bass that plumps the depths of Gotham just brought Batman out of retirement.

And this mighty midget Voskhod 6N23p driver is partly responsible for that.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> A single National Union 6F8G (a gibosi recommendation) arrived today.
> 
> Can't wait to hear it.



Judging from the ladder plates and and the shape of the mica spacers, I suspect that your NU is actually a re-badged Ken-Rad. The NU 6F8G has round plates.

This Philco was manufactured by NU in the fourth quarter of 1943.


----------



## gibosi

300B

On the slim chance that those who use the 300B haven't heard:

~~~~~~~

_It is my distinct pleasure to announce that the WE 300B electron tube will re-enter production this year, in time for its 80th Anniversary. The famous triode was developed at Bell Labs in 1933 in the form of its predecessor, the 300A, which was modified, patented, and then produced at many historic works facilities beginning in 1938. The 300B has journeyed from the original New York tube shops, to the legendary Hawthorne Works, Allentown Works, Kansas City Works, then the Huntsville Works. The sparkling new tubes that will roll off the line this September will be assembled here in Rossville, Georgia at a new and reimagined electron tube works facility. Furthering our commitment to manufacturing excellence, we are installing new hydrogen reduction ovens, automated cathode cleaning lines, new laser welding systems, a state-of-the-art water deionization plant, and an updated testing system with improved accuracy. However, the 300B will still be manufactured from its original tooling and assembly specification standards.

Although we’ve invested in a modernized production line, many of its aspects will of course remain true to tradition. For example, the core material, the so-called “secret sauce” embedded in each cathode is derived from an original Hawthorne Works 1963 melt. Western Electric’s attention to each delicate detail and historic promise of quality place the WE 300B in a category of its own.

The new 300B’s will be priced at a reasonable rate of $1299 per matched pair or $599 for a single. They will also be available in quads and octets. Each tube ships with our peerless 5-year limited warranty starting September 1, 2018. By internal estimates, this is a conservative timeframe we can easily achieve, barring any unforeseen setbacks. A complex process like this involves many moving parts—literally—and we appreciate your patience.

In addition to announcing the availability of the 300B, I’d like to share some of our adventures in product development. Continuing our 80th anniversary celebration of the 300B, we are unveiling a new single-ended amplifier called the 91E, as an homage to its famous predecessor the 91A, first introduced in 1936. The 91E embodies a new proprietary Class A2 parallel feed current source topology (patent pending), combined with toroidal output transformers, and microprocessor controlled automatic bias. It will achieve in excess of twenty watts per channel—a never before realized level of performance for the 300B in a single-ended circuit. 

Be on the lookout for a limited edition monoblock set of this amp topology called the 91C Metropolis. Only 500 of these beautifully designed 300B amplifiers will be available!

Western Electric has been working hard to give our followers big things to look forward to in 2018. This is just the beginning! The best way to stay in the loop is to subscribe to our exclusive 300B mailing list and by following our newly launched social accounts. Or maybe we’ll see you at the shows, starting this April at Axpona. 

Stay tuned!

Charles Whitener | President, Western Electric_


----------



## JazzVinyl

1943 was a great year for tube manufacture.  Two of my favorite tubes are from 1943, I will keep an eye out for this beauty.

Appreciate the info, Gibosi...


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> 300B
> 
> On the slim chance that those who use the 300B haven't heard:
> 
> ...


Hi gibosi.

Very interesting reading (and better than reading about the re-introduction of Telefunken tubes a couple of years ago, when it only meant rebranding Eastern European tubes).

However, this is my question:
Are you aware of any new re-issue tube that sounds better than the original?


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Judging from the ladder plates and and the shape of the mica spacers, I suspect that your NU is actually a re-badged Ken-Rad. The NU 6F8G has round plates.
> 
> This Philco was manufactured by NU in the fourth quarter of 1943.


Ken is correct.

NU 6F8G is a good tube, but nothing special.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Ken is correct.
> 
> NU 6F8G is a good tube, but nothing special.



Well, everyone has different ears and different gear...  Personally, I like the NU 6F8G better than the comparable Tung-Sol. But again, my ears and my gear.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi.
> 
> Very interesting reading (and better than reading about the re-introduction of Telefunken tubes a couple of years ago, when it only meant rebranding Eastern European tubes).
> 
> ...



I have never tried a new re-issue tube. But judging from the comments of some of the 300B enthusiasts here, some of the new 300B's rival the old Western Electrics in terms of sonics. But there are no re-issues of any of my favorite tubes, so I simply can't say....


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Well, everyone has different ears and different gear...  Personally, I like the NU 6F8G better than the comparable Tung-Sol. But again, my ears and my gear.


My problem. I am not a fan of 6SN7W either.........


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> My problem. I am not a fan of 6SN7W either.........



And it has been a long time since I listened to the 6SN7W, the NU 6F8G or the TS-RPBG so my memories are somewhat foggy.... For the time being, I remain charmed and captivated by the 27.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> And it has been a long time since I listened to the 6SN7W, the NU 6F8G or the TS-RPBG so my memories are somewhat foggy.... For the time being, I remain charmed and captivated by the 27.



Would be interesting if you were to refresh your memory, Ken, and compare the 27's to the 6SN7W.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Would be interesting if you were to refresh your memory, Ken, and compare the 27's to the 6SN7W.



I hear you. And I will add this to the already very long list of comparisons I need to make. 

Too many tubes and not enough hours in a day. lol


----------



## leftside (Jan 20, 2018)

Good news on the WE300B's. Cheaper than the Taks as well. I might have to take the splurge on these, though I've been doing well the last year with resisting the crack habit of buying more tubes.

The WE amps look interesting as well. Edit: until I saw the price: http://westernelectric.com/products/97a.html

They do include 16 WE300B tubes though! (8 a piece)


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> They don't call the 5998 the 'Benchmark' for nothing.   Did you use two or four 5998? I think two is enough but four has the added force of the Jedi.
> 
> 5998 and 7236 are definitely more than subtle difference.
> 
> Then there's the GEC 6as7g. Now you know why I have gone bananas in the 1st month, wanting to hear every single tube ASAP in the GOTL. Now I am more settled and am listening to music ....



I have used two at the moment. I will try four after few days to compare if there is any significant difference in sound which I doubt.


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> Good news on the WE300B's. Cheaper than the Taks as well. I might have to take the splurge on these, though I've been doing well the last year with resisting the crack habit of buying more tubes.
> 
> The WE amps look interesting as well. Edit: until I saw the price: http://westernelectric.com/products/97a.html
> 
> They do include 16 WE300B tubes though! (8 a piece)



Good news indeed. The Taks have risen in price very steeply since I purchased my last pair about 18 months ago - got quite the shock when I checked some prices a few minutes ago. 

The WE300Bs are certainly cheaper, but I do wonder about performance vs the Taks. If these are true to the 'old' WE300Bs (as expected) then the Taks should have almost everything that the WE300Bs have in the midrange, combined with better extension in the bass and treble. I'll probably get a pair - just because its the WE300B legend - but I expect the TA300B to remain the better tube*.

* disclaimer - this is based on the thoughts of a tube colleague who has sampled WE300Bs from the 50s and the recent new product vs the 'old' TA300Bs (before the TA300B was improved by Takatsuki around 2 years ago).


----------



## leftside (Jan 21, 2018)

Crikey I'm seeing $2500/pair USD. Makes ours seem cheap Tony  Should have stocked up lol.


----------



## TonyNewman (Jan 21, 2018)

leftside said:


> Crikey I'm seeing $2500/pair USD. Makes ours seem cheap Tony



Yep. Puckered my sphincter quite a bit when I saw that price 

Woo are advertising $1,900 USD for TA300Bs. Not sure they have stock on hand.

I think I paid around $1,300 USD for my TA300Bs in late 2016.

$1,300 -> $1,900+ in just over a year. That's quite an increase.

EL3N Glenn amp owners are entitled to feel a mild dose of smug right about now. 300Bs sound glorious, but the price for the best glass requires electroshock therapy to fully comprehend.


----------



## lukeap69

My 1 million dollar question is how good is Glenn's 300B amp compared to Glenn's EL3N amp for headphone use (except HE-6 of course?) The problem with my question is I don't know if there is any one person (except Glenn) who heard both amps in his system.


----------



## TonyNewman

lukeap69 said:


> My 1 million dollar question is how good is Glenn's 300B amp compared to Glenn's EL3N amp for headphone use (except HE-6 of course?) The problem with my question is I don't know if there is any one person (except Glenn) who heard both amps in his system.



Good question. Kinda curious about that myself. Any thoughts, Glenn?


----------



## UntilThen

I am awaiting Glenn's reply with anticipation whilst eating popcorn.


----------



## 2359glenn

SQ wise the EL3N is close not as much power of course but at $20 a tube the EL3N is the better choice.
I was going to get rid of my 300B amp due to unreliable 300Bs sick of them burning out. And will not
pay the price of the TAKs. Was going to build myself a SE  EL34 amp with four paralleled EL34s per
Channel for 21 watts. Now I might forgo building that. Had no problems with my WE300B reissues 
but sold them when I was told by my doctor that I only had 18 months to live. That was 5 years ago
and am kicking my ass for selling them now. The price of these WEs are not bad and can't wait
to get a pair.
I mostly use the 300B amp for driving speakers and they are on every day. They are different from
your 300B as they use a #10 globe driver tube. I had these amps for 10 years and have the original
globe 10s in them and went through lost count of burned out 300Bs. Recently lost a KR globe 300B
Looked nice next  to the globe 10 it was about a year old. Now have cheep Chinese 300Bs in there
Until the new WEs come out was going to give up on 300Bs after this KR failure.


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 21, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> ZMF Eikon, Atticus and LCD-2f sound great on the GOTL. The added bass is infectious but HD800 on the GOTL is more my kind of tone. It's super clear, more airy and instruments separation is first class.
> 
> I've 2 persons over at my place to listen to my head-fi. My speaker designer, John Reilly, prefers the Audeze LCD-2f. That's a surprise to me and I can assure you he has the best ears for sound.
> 
> 2nd guy is an audiophile who loves good 2 channels stereo system. He was quite shocked by the clarity from HD800 on GOTL and the HD800 is his favourite too of my 4 headphones.




At some point I am going to get an LCD headphone...not sure what one yet.  I can understand someone picking a planar headphone over a dynamic one, just because of the way the planar cans do bass.
It is just a different sounding bass than all of the dynamic cans that I have heard.
It is addicting for sure. The ZMF Ori bass is the best bass of all of my headphones to my ears, from top to bottom.  I am thinking an open planar is something that I would much enjoy.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> And it has been a long time since I listened to the 6SN7W, the NU 6F8G or the TS-RPBG so my memories are somewhat foggy.... For the time being, I remain charmed and captivated by the 27.


The best tube is the one that sounds the best in your amp (your circuit) and your system, to you.


----------



## whirlwind

Not sure why we have not tried this before, I think I asked Glenn about it at one time and he said it would work...but the wife and I just listed to the new Kid Rock album together...she had the HD800 and I used the Ori.
Works wonderfully.  

Tonight we are going to listen together again....her choice for the music tonight.


----------



## 2359glenn

That is fin to do if the 2 headphones are highish impedance the combined lower impedance might
even come down to the 32 ohm output impedance of the amp.
As long as one is not much louder then the other with different phones.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> That is fin to do if the 2 headphones are highish impedance the combined lower impedance might
> even come down to the 32 ohm output impedance of the amp.
> As long as one is not much louder then the other with different phones.



I let my wife set the volume as my normal listening level is higher than hers.
She had HD800    dynamic 300 ohm
I had ZMF Ori       planar   50 ohm, I believe

Volume pot at about 10 O'clock....I could have moved the pot up a little for my liking...but still very nice.

Probably even better with
ZMF Ori                50 Ohm
Grado RS1            32 Ohm

HD800           300 Ohm
ZMF Atticus   300 Ohm

Think we will try this tonight.


----------



## 2359glenn

The lower impedance phone should have been louder if the efficiency is the same.

Burning in a OTL using Svetlana 6H13 driven by a 1633. These cheep output tubes sound good
And lower noise then any of the 6AS7s I have. Have to get more of these they can't be beat for the price.


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 21, 2018)

Cheap is good.

I don't own any of these , but I know you can get them for $5-10 ea.
I am guessing cheaper than any other 6AS7G.

You are listening to it and only using about $25 worth of tubes...at most.
Pretty darn hard to beat that!

Every time I put the HD800 on, even if it has been for some time since I listened to it.
The first thing that pops in my head is just how damn good the headphone is, especially through the whole spectrum.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> SQ wise the EL3N is close not as much power of course but at $20 a tube the EL3N is the better choice.



I'm reading that as a small win for the 300B on SQ. I'm totally unbiased, of course 



2359glenn said:


> ... I was going to get rid of my 300B amp due to unreliable 300Bs sick of them burning out. And will not pay the price of the TAKs.



For absolutely longevity nothing I know of beats the vintage WE or Tak. These things keep going and going... Not so sure about the re-issues. There were some reports of reliability issues. I hope the new WE facility gets the reliability of the vintage WE.



2359glenn said:


> ...Was going to build myself a SE  EL34 amp with four paralleled EL34s per Channel for 21 watts. Now I might forgo building that. Had no problems with my WE300B reissues but sold them when I was told by my doctor that I only had 18 months to live. That was 5 years ago and am kicking my ass for selling them now.



Very glad you are still with us.

The EL34 concept sounds interesting. Combine that with speaker outputs for the 21W. Could be quite something.



2359glenn said:


> The price of these WEs are not bad and can't wait to get a pair. I mostly use the 300B amp for driving speakers and they are on every day. They are different from your 300B as they use a #10 globe driver tube. I had these amps for 10 years and have the original globe 10s in them and went through lost count of burned out 300Bs. Recently lost a KR globe 300B. Looked nice next  to the globe 10 it was about a year old. Now have cheep Chinese 300Bs in there. Until the new WEs come out was going to give up on 300Bs after this KR failure.



After some bad experiences with 300Bs I now only purchase EML / Tak / WE re-issue (when available). The new Elrogs work fine, but the tonality is a touch off to my tastes. A little on the bright side and they don't get much use from me. For a less expensive, rock solid 300B for speaker duty I would look at the EML 300B XLS (or 320B XLS if your amp can take it). I run the 300B EML plate quite a bit and enjoy it very much. It is no Tak, but it is a very nice tube and very, very well built.


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 21, 2018)

TonyNewman said:


> I'm reading that as a small win for the 300B on SQ. I'm totally unbiased, of course
> 
> 
> > I would say you are reading it correctly


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> I let my wife set the volume as my normal listening level is higher than hers.
> She had HD800    dynamic 300 ohm
> I had ZMF Ori       planar   50 ohm, I believe
> 
> ...


----------



## ru4music

whirlwind said:


> Cheap is good.
> 
> Every time I put the HD800 on, even if it has been for some time since I listened to it.
> The first thing that pops in my head is just how damn good the headphone is, especially through the whole spectrum.



X2


----------



## UntilThen

X3

but I've to qualify it - with Glenn's OTL amp of course.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> The lower impedance phone should have been louder if the efficiency is the same.
> 
> Burning in a OTL using *Svetlana 6H13* driven by a 1633. These cheep output tubes sound good
> And lower noise then any of the 6AS7s I have. Have to get more of these they can't be beat for the price.



I should try the 6H13 out in my Woo WA2 just to see how they sound on the cheap.  I've got 3.5 amps (per output tube) of heater current available and I like to run my TS 5998s with my '74 6N23P Reflektors in that unit.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> X3
> 
> but I've to qualify it - with Glenn's OTL amp of course.



Let me also add - this is with my GEL3N (aka Miss Scarlett) and Woo WA2 amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

The 6H13 draws the same 2.5 amps as a 6AS7 would.


----------



## rnros (Jan 21, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> The lower impedance phone should have been louder if the efficiency is the same.
> 
> Burning in a OTL using Svetlana 6H13 driven by a 1633. These cheep output tubes sound good
> And lower noise then any of the 6AS7s I have. Have to get more of these they can't be beat for the price.



My Sony Z1R likes the super quiet of the Svetlana 6H13. Sounds great with a quad of these, haven't tried just a pair yet.


----------



## 2359glenn

They are quiet tubes lower noise then any of the US ones.
I hate pops and static even if they supposedly sound better.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> They are quiet tubes lower noise then any of the US ones.
> I hate pops and static even if they supposedly sound better.


What is the tube's  year of production for the 6H13 you are using?
I'm quite keen to try this tube, majority of it selling on ebay was produced in 80s


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> What is the tube's  year of production for the 6H13 you are using?
> I'm quite keen to try this tube, majority of it selling on ebay was produced in 80s



It was the 80s can't look they re in the amp and on Hot Hot Hot.


----------



## ru4music

To the Minnesota Vikings fans (I'm one vs. the Eagles) at the end of the 3rd it doesn't look good!  Best of luck for a comeback and Cinderella story in the Super Bowl; now back to my GEL3N and Japanese remastered Joni Mitchell HDCDs... awesome vocals and mid-range!


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> At some point I am going to get an LCD headphone...not sure what one yet.  I can understand someone picking a planar headphone over a dynamic one, just because of the way the planar cans do bass.
> It is just a different sounding bass than all of the dynamic cans that I have heard.
> It is addicting for sure. The ZMF Ori bass is the best bass of all of my headphones to my ears, from top to bottom.  I am thinking an open planar is something that I would much enjoy.


Sure you will like the Susvara.


----------



## whirlwind

attmci said:


> Sure you will like the Susvara.



Ha!  I am sure I would too, but that is for out of my price range.


----------



## UntilThen

I had a short session with Susvara and Woo Audio Wa33 at a HiFi show. It's the deepest and lowest bass I've ever heard. It's quite a moving experience.

Back to more realistic setup, I'm giving the LCD-2f more time with Glenn's OTL. I haven't spend enough time with this headphone and I'm starting to love it more now. Listening to Beck - Morning Phase. Very enjoyable.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Beck “Morning Phase” is one of those albums that was very well done - recording, mixing and mastering.  Excellent SQ 

And let all be happy that Glenns prognosis 5 years ago was inaccurate.

Three cheers for Glenn.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks to Glenn indeed. The OTL amp is an important item in my setup and is responsible for the superb resolution. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6BX7gt are staying put now. Great sounding tubes and they happen to be my quietest tubes too.

Listening to George Benson: Verve Ultimate Cool, I wonder in amazement what is contributing to the astonishing clarity, outstanding resolution and musicality. Is it Yggdrasil, is it LCD-2f, is it GOTL, is it the tube combination, it's it my Forza Claire Hybrid headphone cable? I think it is the combination of everything. Synergy !


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Thanks to Glenn indeed. The OTL amp is an important item in my setup and is responsible for the superb resolution. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6BX7gt are staying put now. Great sounding tubes and they happen to be my quietest tubes too.
> 
> Listening to George Benson: Verve Ultimate Cool, I wonder in amazement what is contributing to the astonishing clarity, outstanding resolution and musicality. Is it Yggdrasil, is it LCD-2f, is it GOTL, is it the tube combination, it's it my Forza Claire Hybrid headphone cable? I think it is the combination of everything. Synergy !




I think you are correct .


----------



## mordy

Just got a copy of the Audio Advisor catalog in the mail. The cover page features the new Woo WA33 amp priced at a mere $8,000.00.
This amp has 9 tubes and a dual (connected) chassis.


----------



## ru4music

mordy said:


> Just got a copy of the Audio Advisor catalog in the mail. The cover page features the new Woo WA33 amp priced at a mere $8,000.00.
> This amp has 9 tubes and a dual (connected) chassis.



The WA33 pictured is the Elite Edition $15K + RCA 2A3 $2400 + ...  = $$$$  My gosh, you'd need to be a 300B amp owner in order to afford that thing!


----------



## TonyNewman

ru4music said:


> The WA33 pictured is the Elite Edition $15K + RCA 2A3 $2400 + ...  = $$$$  My gosh, you'd need to be a 300B amp owner in order to afford that thing!



Too rich for this 300B amp owner. Besides, if I had that sort of cash to blow on HeadFi it would be thrown at a BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon + SR-007/009. Not on a Woo amp that looks pretty on the outside and very likely highly suspect on the inside.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy that is the amp I heard with Susvara with pics from my camera phone.


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:


> Too rich for this 300B amp owner. Besides, if I had that sort of cash to blow on HeadFi it would be thrown at a BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon + SR-007/009. Not on a Woo amp that looks pretty on the outside and very likely highly suspect on the inside.



How much better can it sound compared to your 300B


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> How much better can it sound compared to your 300B



Not much. Being a Woo I would expect it to be more 'tubey' and euphonic, based on the WA5 I used to have.

That's not my thing anymore. I like my tube amps to be mostly transparent with a touch of tube love. SS rectification + C3g drivers + 300B does that superbly well.


----------



## mordy

ru4music said:


> The WA33 pictured is the Elite Edition $15K + RCA 2A3 $2400 + ...  = $$$$  My gosh, you'd need to be a 300B amp owner in order to afford that thing!


U forgot the Utopia headphones at 4K....


----------



## ru4music

mordy said:


> U forgot the Utopia headphones at 4K....


I didn't forget, I just ran out of fingers and toes to count that high!


----------



## whirlwind

TonyNewman said:


> Too rich for this 300B amp owner. Besides, if I had that sort of cash to blow on HeadFi it would be thrown at a BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon + SR-007/009. Not on a Woo amp that looks pretty on the outside and very likely highly suspect on the inside.



I agree, at this point it is BHSE and some Stax cans.


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:


> Too rich for this 300B amp owner. Besides, if I had that sort of cash to blow on HeadFi it would be thrown at a BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon + SR-007/009. Not on a Woo amp that looks pretty on the outside and very likely highly suspect on the inside.



At one point I was thinking about making a electrostat amp using four 300Bs two for right and two for left driven by four C3gs
To expensive to make and try to sell.


----------



## 2359glenn

Shipped a amp today and started another been busy.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> At one point I was thinking about making a electrostat amp using four 300Bs two for right and two for left driven by four C3gs
> To expensive to make and try to sell.



Have you seen the Frank Cooter stat amp with 2x845?

LINK

It is one of the most purdy bits of a audio gear I have ever seen.


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:


> Have you seen the Frank Cooter stat amp with 2x845?
> 
> LINK
> 
> It is one of the most purdy bits of a audio gear I have ever seen.



Nice amp
I should do something with the Russian GM70 can get them for $20 and easier to drive then a 845.
Time to come up with a new amp


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> At one point I was thinking about making a electrostat amp using four 300Bs two for right and two for left driven by four C3gs
> To expensive to make and try to sell.



Hifiman Shangri-La electro static uses 4 300Bs


----------



## 2359glenn

I didn't know there was one can't imagine what it costs.


----------



## Khragon

$50,000 for the system!


----------



## 2359glenn

Khragon said:


> $50,000 for the system!



Wow who would pay that for a headphone setup.
I was worried about something $8 to 10 K


----------



## mordy

Question about this thread: How can I access an earlier page easily - say page 102?
The only way I know of is keep on clicking until my finger hurts...


----------



## gibosi

It seems that there ought to be a more direct way, but...

notice, this page is

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1204

So if you want to go to page 640

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-640


----------



## Monsterzero (Jan 23, 2018)

mordy said:


> Question about this thread: How can I access an earlier page easily - say page 102?
> The only way I know of is keep on clicking until my finger hurts...



Use your toes like the rest of us....

Type in the page number you want in the address bar.

Question:

Glenn will be attending CanJam NYC or no?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Question about this thread: How can I access an earlier page easily - say page 102?
> The only way I know of is keep on clicking until my finger hurts...



You click inside the page number and type in the page to go to and hit ENTER...
as below:


----------



## 2359glenn

monsterzero said:


> Use your toes like the rest of us....
> 
> Type in the page number you want in the address bar.
> 
> ...



No I have a full time job also build amps. can't take time off to go to N.Y or I would to get good pizza.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Wow who would pay that for a headphone setup.
> I was worried about something $8 to 10 K



Ha ha, I agree, at some point people will just toss their headphones aside and invest that much money in some kick butt speakers...there will always be a few to buy it, but very few in my opinion.
Especially with the diminishing return aspect of this hobby.

I would venture to guess that anything new that you come up with under the price of the 300B would draw much interest and be on many peoples radar.

The thing is though, with most planars being pretty easy to drive these days....you pretty much have the bases covered for what one would need.
This being said, if you come up with something new, how could one not be interested


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Question about this thread: How can I access an earlier page easily - say page 102?
> The only way I know of is keep on clicking until my finger hurts...



Mordy, with all of the EL3N tubes that you have....this amp makes perfect since for you.


----------



## musicman59

TonyNewman said:


> Have you seen the Frank Cooter stat amp with 2x845?
> 
> LINK
> 
> It is one of the most purdy bits of a audio gear I have ever seen.



I have seen and listened to this amp in person (I am lucky to live 10 miles away from Headfi HQ and Jude). It looks and sound magnificent with the SR-009 but it is huge (dual chassis)!
I cannot disclose the price but I can tell you it was less than the WA33.
I just bought (from a Headfier friend) a RSA A-10 Thunderbolt with all upgraded tubes for my SR-009. It also makes the SR-009 sound amazing and for the price I got it can't be beat.


----------



## gibosi

musicman59 said:


> ....a RSA A-10 Thunderbolt with all upgraded tubes....



Upgraded tubes -- 5687 and 6SN7 -- would you mind telling us which ones?


----------



## musicman59

Right now I am using Raytheon 5687, Mullard 12AX7 and Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown Base/Chrome Top but also have TS RPBG.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> It seems that there ought to be a more direct way, but...
> 
> notice, this page is
> 
> ...


Thanks to all for all the help - got it.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Mordy, with all of the EL3N tubes that you have....this amp makes perfect since for you.


Hi whirlwind,


I reckon I have some 600 tubes, but the bulk are small signal tubes from my Little Dot days. 
EL3N: 4 new
           4 used
           3 shorted out (defective adapter)  - 1 of these autopsied (smashed) for the sake of                    science - it has oval plates.
At this point in time I am more inclined towards a GOTL amp - I have a fairly good assortment of suitable tubes.


----------



## mordy

Another question: Over the past 8 years I posted a number of photos, and I used to be able to access them.
With the new layout I can only find less than ten photos out of maybe 150-200. 
Is there a way to access the past photos?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Another question: Over the past 8 years I posted a number of photos, and I used to be able to access them.
> With the new layout I can only find less than ten photos out of maybe 150-200.
> Is there a way to access the past photos?



If someone here can't help you, you might want to ask your question in the thread specifically created to address questions regarding the new head-fi site:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-head-fi-update.845500/


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Hi whirlwind,
> 
> 
> I reckon I have some 600 tubes, but the bulk are small signal tubes from my Little Dot days.
> ...


Hi whirlwind,

Can't find my old pictures on Head Fi, but Google photos saved this one of the innards of the EL3N - thought you might be interested since the inside is not visible due to the coating:




Funny that it took a few tries with a hammer till I got the glass broken....
Please note that this tube had shorted out due to a bad adapter - would otherwise never think of destroying such a beautiful item.


----------



## mordy

Does anybody have experience with this tube:





Raytheon CK5684 - dual triode similar to 6N7G,
The American ECC31 and rarer than hens teeth......
I think Gibosi has one.


----------



## gibosi (Jan 24, 2018)

Yes, I have one. And it does seem to be rare as hens teeth, as I have yet to find another...

But it is more appropriate to call it an American ECC32 as it has separate cathodes, whereas the ECC31 and 6N7G have a common cathode. However, it is not pin-compatible with the 6SN7 / ECC32, so if someone should find one, it requires an adapter.

Oh, it is actually a CK 5694.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have a pair of adapters that have sat lonely, ever since purchased, 3 or so years ago...

I never even found one of these tubes


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Hi whirlwind,
> 
> Can't find my old pictures on Head Fi, but Google photos saved this one of the innards of the EL3N - thought you might be interested since the inside is not visible due to the coating:
> 
> ...




Thanks for the picture Mordy.


----------



## Hansotek

After more than a month of waiting, my C3G adaptor arrived from China yesterday. Holy hell, these tubes are good. Transparency, staging and tone are phenomenal. So much emotion to these tubes. Made the HD800 and the Atticus sing!


----------



## yates7592

Very nice!
How does C3g compare to ECC31? 
and also HD800 vs Auteur on Glenn OTL? I'm kind of tempted by Auteur but I read many times the soundstage isn't even near HD800.


----------



## Hansotek

yates7592 said:


> Very nice!
> How does C3g compare to ECC31?
> and also HD800 vs Auteur on Glenn OTL? I'm kind of tempted by Auteur but I read many times the soundstage isn't even near HD800.



These are both situations where I would have to have both items! ECC31 is warmer with noticeably more violent slam and monster dynamics across the board. The C3Gs are more neutral with better transparency and an emotional gravitas that is hard to explain, but incredibly striking. Both do staging very well but I have to give the nod to the C3G, as the center stage is really strong and the instruments float way out in air. Orchestration is expecially impressive on the C3G for the air and transparency. Female vocals are also absolutely riveting. ECC31 is more fun sounding and better for rock, metal, hip hop, EDM, etc., where you benefit from the best in class slam and pitch perfect warm tonality that allows you to crank it up without getting fatigued.

C3G vs. ECC31 is a bit like HD800 vs. Auteur, in a lot of ways (but not all ways). Auteur rocks way harder than the HD800, and has more slam, warmth, forgiveness and euphony. The HD800 is more airy, transparent, detailed, spacious and layered. HD800 is wider. Depth and layering are similar between the two. Auteur is more of an O-shaped stage, while HD800 is more D-shaped. Both of them have a great soundstage by any measure, HD800 is just far bigger than anything and everything except for the HE-1, Shangri-La, MySphere and Susvara (and probably the SR-Sigma). Auteur is in with the best of the rest like SR-009, Dharma, T1, etc. If we’re ranking soundstages Auteur is probably top 10-15 overall and solidly top 10 in depth. It’s a strong performer by any standard.


----------



## leftside

Sounds like the Auteur will be a great match for the Glenn 300B as I consider this amp to be "airy, transparent, detailed, spacious and layered". Hopefully I'll be reporting my thoughts on that combo next month.


----------



## gibosi

This evening I am sanding type 27 tube pins. Recently, I managed to pick up four more RCA/Cunningham globes manufactured in GE's Ivanhoe Works in Cleveland, Ohio, in the first half of 1930. This will give me 7 total. Of the three I already had, two were border-line quiet, and I am hopeful that with four more, I will be able to put together a quieter pair.



And this photo should give you a better idea how these 27's compare in size to a 6SN7. Eventually, as requested, I hope to be able to sonically compare a pair of Sylvania 27's and a Sylvania 6SN7W (both labeled Philco).


----------



## Hansotek

gibosi said:


> This evening I am sanding type 27 tube pins. Recently, I managed to pick up four more RCA/Cunningham globes manufactured in GE's Ivanhoe Works in Cleveland, Ohio, in the first half of 1930. This will give me 7 total. Of the three I already had, two were border-line quiet, and I am hopeful that with four more, I will be able to put together a quieter pair.
> 
> 
> 
> And this photo should give you a better idea how these 27's compare in size to a 6SN7. Eventually, as requested, I hope to be able to sonically compare a pair of Sylvania 27's and a Sylvania 6SN7W (both labeled Philco).



I looked those up and it says 2.5V. How do you run them? With 6.3V setting? Do you run a pair then? Please and thank you.


----------



## gibosi

You are correct. A type 27 draws 1.75A at 2.5V. And since these are single triodes, it is necessary to run a pair for two-channel stereo. And unfortunately, it is not possible to use the GOTL's 6.3V internal winding to heat these tubes. Therefore, an external heater power supply is necessary.

I use a very crude external DC heater power supply, consisting of a surplus laptop DC power supply and an inexpensive adjustable step-down buck module converter, to provide 2.5 volts to heat the 27s. Fortunately, the 27 has the same pinout as the 76, so I use a modified 76 to 6SN7 adapter. In the adapter, the connection to the amp's heater circuit is disabled, and external wires are used to connect the external heater power supply to the 27s.

So below, you can see the modified 76 to 6SN7 adapter with red and black wires running to the external heater power supply off to the right, out of view of the camera.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> After more than a month of waiting, my C3G adaptor arrived from China yesterday. Holy hell, these tubes are good. Transparency, staging and tone are phenomenal. So much emotion to these tubes. Made the HD800 and the Atticus sing!



It would hard to beat C3g and 6 x 6BX7s in a Glenn OTL amp for transparency and impact. These were the first tubes that I use on the OTL amp.

After 2 weeks of using HD800, I forgot how lovely Eikon can sound on the Glenn OTL amp.


----------



## Hansotek

Loving this combo with the Blackwood ZMF Auteur:
Mullard ECC31 driver 
RCA 5AW4 rectifier 
Raytheon 6336 power tubes

Warm and lush midrange with a megaton of slam. Thick, rolling liquidity. Nice change of pace roll from the airy C3G/GZ34/6BL7 quad roll. It’s like “air” and “water” between the two rolls. Love the dichotomy.


----------



## leftside

You got your Auteurs quickly. Glad to hear they are working out for you.


----------



## Hansotek

leftside said:


> You got your Auteurs quickly. Glad to hear they are working out for you.



I still have the review demo pair. Zach just let me just hang on to them until my production pair is ready.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 26, 2018)

gibosi said:


> This evening I am sanding type 27 tube pins. Recently, I managed to pick up four more RCA/Cunningham globes manufactured in GE's Ivanhoe Works in Cleveland, Ohio, in the first half of 1930. This will give me 7 total. Of the three I already had, two were border-line quiet, and I am hopeful that with four more, I will be able to put together a quieter pair.
> 
> 
> 
> And this photo should give you a better idea how these 27's compare in size to a 6SN7. Eventually, as requested, I hope to be able to sonically compare a pair of Sylvania 27's and a Sylvania 6SN7W (both labeled Philco).



Ken I took these out of my first amp they are 27s International Service master they are perfectly quiet no noise at all.
Don't look nice like the globes but they are the best 27 I tried. And I tried 56 and 76 tubes and all noisy.
Don't know who made them they say 1/12-57 on them.
Going to restore this amp I used battery bias using 9 volt Ni cad battery's they charge while using the amp.
So I never looked at them until the amp sounded bad. When I looked they leaked and corroded everything up.
 I built another amp using the 1633 and that is the OTL I am selling now.
Still I think the 27 sounded better then the SN7 types.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Still I think the 27 sounded better then the SN7 types.



They need a custom adapter to run in your OTL, Glenn?

Better than SN7's, how do they compare to the C3g's?


----------



## 2359glenn

That amp has a special transformer with 2.5 volt winding.


----------



## attmci

Do you know what's the manufacture date of this guy? Thx!


----------



## attmci

JazzVinyl said:


> They need a custom adapter to run in your OTL, Glenn?
> 
> Better than SN7's, how do they compare to the C3g's?


Those are the great grandpa of 6SN7.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Ken I took these out of my first amp they are 27s International Service master they are perfectly quiet no noise at all.
> Don't look nice like the globes but they are the best 27 I tried. And I tried 56 and 76 tubes and all noisy.
> Don't know who made them they say 1/12-57 on them.
> Going to restore this amp I used battery bias using 9 volt Ni cad battery's they charge while using the amp.
> ...



International Service Master didn't manufacture vacuum tubes, so it will take some detective work to figure out who made them. And unfortunately, comparing them to pics on eBay, I don't see any 27's with the same top and bottom micas. Just have to keep looking....

I assume the 27s are drivers. If so, what did you use as output tubes?


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Do you know what's the manufacture date of this guy? Thx!



K = 1943
2 = Mar/Apr
E = OEM sale

This is the shipping-date code. So the tube was actually manufactured sometime before this date.

I believe that "SC 278 A" is an Army Signal Corp inventory number.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> K = 1943
> 2 = Mar/Apr
> E = OEM sale
> 
> ...



Thanks, Ken. These bottom foil getter tube sounds good to me.


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> Those are the great grandpa of 6SN7.



I never done a direct comparison to the C3g.
They will not work in the present OTL unless you get a adapter and 2.5 volt power supply like Ken has.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 27, 2018)

gibosi said:


> International Service Master didn't manufacture vacuum tubes, so it will take some detective work to figure out who made them. And unfortunately, comparing them to pics on eBay, I don't see any 27's with the same top and bottom micas. Just have to keep looking....
> 
> I assume the 27s are drivers. If so, what did you use as output tubes?



They look like a modern 1957 replacement tube. They have a modern getter.
Did get them on E-Bay and have another pair for replacements.
The Canadian GE and Westinghouse 26 tubes I used had the modern getter too and are totally quiet too.
I did use the 6AS7 for the outputs with the 27 as a driver.
When I restore this amp going to start trying Globe 27s till I find a quiet pair. Noise free is more important
to me then ultimate SQ.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Hi y’all! 

I’m one of the very excited and gracious Glenn GOTL owners. Wanted to show some pics!

This is driving the behemoth home


 

The un boxing of the amp was a phenomenal experience also! Ha. Here is a pic but I also took a video as well. Going to try and upload that, or send a link to YouTube. 


 
Notice how Glenn packed the pool noodles to enclose the amp. Incredible protection. I think Glenn should save on shipping and just shoot these packaged amps out of a cannon to people.

Here’s the beauty-


 

I am amazed by the sound. Using the HD600 with it currently and it’s the best I have ever heard it... I actually laughed a couple times while listening (a sign of mine when I am having immense enjoyment). 

The sound (at least with these tubes, I have yet to roll) is very fast and clean. There is a lot of air to sound, and great soundstage space. I love the sound of drum stick “thwacks” making the cracking sound. I feel like the HD600 has an effortlessness to it due to this amp. The music is just “out there” if that makes any sense. 

I plan on rolling the crap out of this amp, and   to me it’s easily an heirloom piece. I can not be happier. 

Thank you Glenn!

By the way- my name is Craig, and this is my personal account. My other account is MTMECraig and that is my rep name for the store I work for. 

Also and almost forgot- I am going to take the HD800 and also Grado GH1 from the store to listen to tomrorow night. Can’t wait to hear the HD800 on the GOTL


----------



## Rossliew

A truly splendid amp to have in one's collection - you will not regret it!


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> They look like a modern 1957 replacement tube. They have a modern getter.
> Did get them on E-Bay and have another pair for replacements.
> The Canadian GE and Westinghouse 26 tubes I used had the modern getter too and are totally quiet too.
> I did use the 6AS7 for the outputs with the 27 as a driver.
> ...



It just may well be that 27s manufactured in the mid-to-late 1950's are the rarest of the breed. lol 

So far, I have had the best luck with RCA/Westinghouse globes. About 90% of them are quiet.


----------



## yates7592

@*bunnynamedfrank*
looks amazing you lucky guy, hope to get mine in a few months.


----------



## whirlwind

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Hi y’all!
> 
> I’m one of the very excited and gracious Glenn GOTL owners. Wanted to show some pics!
> 
> ...






Very nice. Thanks for the pics.  

Nice configuration with the Lundahl and the tube rectification.

3DG4,...RCA 1633...Svetlana 6H13  

Enjoy....that HD600 should really sing.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> I never done a direct comparison to the C3g.
> They will not work in the present OTL unless you get a adapter and 2.5 volt power supply like Ken has.


I don't have the PS, Ken is crazy.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> I don't have the PS, Ken is crazy.



Crazy Kenny?  But I like to think that I am "crazy" in a good way... lol


----------



## whirlwind

attmci said:


> I don't have the PS, Ken is crazy.



Ha ha...if it can be done, Ken may just do it!

He is of great help with tubes and info    

Hope you get quiet 27 type tubes of the last four you purchased.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> I don't have the PS, Ken is crazy.



LOL...

I have a "crazy Ken" Power Supply @ 2.5 volts, but not the "crazy Ken" adapter.  
Where does one obtain that...?  Don't see one available...


----------



## UntilThen

bunnynamedfrank said:


> I am amazed by the sound. Using the HD600 with it currently and it’s the best I have ever heard it... I actually laughed a couple times while listening (a sign of mine when I am having immense enjoyment).
> 
> The sound (at least with these tubes, I have yet to roll) is very fast and clean. There is a lot of air to sound, and great soundstage space. I love the sound of drum stick “thwacks” making the cracking sound. I feel like the HD600 has an effortlessness to it due to this amp. The music is just “out there” if that makes any sense.



Hi Craig, it was good talking to you on the LCD-2 thread sometime ago. I'm glad you got Glenn's OTL amp. Fast and clean is a good description. It feels powerful too. Some amps feels warm and lush. GOTL is more dynamic, with a hint of tube goodness. It's a very engaging tone. This is my preferred sonic signature.

Keep the impressions coming. Good to hear another impression of the GOTL. I'm settled down to listening to music now. Love the GOTL. I don't even think of another amp anymore.


----------



## 2359glenn

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Hi y’all!
> 
> I’m one of the very excited and gracious Glenn GOTL owners. Wanted to show some pics!
> 
> ...



I would shoot them out of a cannon but would have trouble reaching Europe no less Australia.


----------



## UntilThen

Mine came on a fast cannon. Took only a week to Australia by EMS.


----------



## JazzVinyl

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Hi y’all!
> 
> I’m one of the very excited and gracious Glenn GOTL owners. Wanted to show some pics!
> 
> ...



Congrats, bunnynamedfrank!!

It's a beauty that will last you a long time, and bring you immense joy!

Congrats to you and congrats to Glenn for another job, very well done!


----------



## rnros

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Hi y’all!
> 
> I’m one of the very excited and gracious Glenn GOTL owners. Wanted to show some pics!
> 
> ...



Congrats, Craig! A beautiful amp indeed... Yeah, and then there is that sound!
So many tubes sound good in the GOTL, you will be doing the 'enjoyment laugh' for many months to come.


----------



## UntilThen

bunnynamedfrank said:


> I plan on rolling the crap out of this amp, and to me it’s easily an heirloom piece. I can not be happier.



Use socket savers if you're going to roll the crap out of the OTL amp. 

A few posts back, Hans talk about using ECC31 and 6336 on the OTL amp with Auter. I'm using those tubes now with Eikon. This is an incredible sounding setup. I should take the GOTL to a meet soon. More people needs to sample this amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

FDD20 to 12SN7 adapter, being painted to accent that beautiful blue color in the Philips FDD20 miniwatt glass.
Going to look good in *Sophie*...
*
*


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Use socket savers if you're going to roll the crap out of the OTL amp.
> 
> A few posts back, Hans talk about using ECC31 and 6336 on the OTL amp with Auter. I'm using those tubes now with Eikon. This is an incredible sounding setup. I should take the GOTL to a meet soon. More people needs to sample this amp.



Any recommendations on socket savers? Those 6336s are a much tighter fit than I’d like. I’m sure there’s some wear and tear every time I roll those.


----------



## UntilThen

I use these octal socket savers. Depends on whether you like it in gold or black. Both works for me and I got mine from xulingmrs on ebay. Use them on the power slots as well as the SN7 socket. As you can see on the label, they are called Octal Saver.

Haven't tried the 6336 on them because they are such big elephants.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> FDD20 to 12SN7 adapter, being painted to accent that beautiful blue color in the Philips FDD20 miniwatt glass.
> Going to look good in *Sophie*...



Ha ... my RVC FDD20 is hum free now. What a joy. I know you love FDD20. I do too and I think it is at the top of the pile for sonic goodness. A fusion of ECC31 and Mazda 6N7G in tone.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I use these octal socket savers. Depends on whether you like it in gold or black. Both works for me and I got mine from xulingmrs on ebay. Use them on the power slots as well as the SN7 socket. As you can see on the label, they are called Octal Saver.
> 
> Haven't tried the 6336 on them because they are such big elephants.



Probably the ones on the left are the best.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> LOL...
> 
> I have a "crazy Ken" Power Supply @ 2.5 volts, but not the "crazy Ken" adapter.
> Where does one obtain that...?  Don't see one available...



I think he is using 2 adapters one is just to sub in the filament voltage.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Ha ... my RVC FDD20 is hum free now. What a joy. I know you love FDD20. I do too and I think it is at the top of the pile for sonic goodness. A fusion of ECC31 and Mazda 6N7G in tone.



What id you do o get rid of the hum? Cant be just painting it blue.


----------



## UntilThen (Jan 27, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> What id you do o get rid of the hum? Cant be just painting it blue.



Well I have 5 FDD20 tubes. 3 of them had labels on them that says 25th March 1942 - Philips Miniwatt FDD20. The other 2 on the right are RVC branded FDD20 which had grey paint on it originally. I scrapped the grey paint off to show the beautiful blue tube.

The 2 tubes on the left had some soft hum. I was running them with 6 x 6BX7. Now I'm using one of the RVC FDD20 with Cetron 6336b tubes. It is totally silent. I feel like hugging the hot tubes now. 

Switch is always set to 12.6 volt when using the FDD20 tubes.


----------



## rnros

Hansotek said:


> Any recommendations on socket savers? Those 6336s are a much tighter fit than I’d like. I’m sure there’s some wear and tear every time I roll those.



Also check the pins, had a similar problem with one pair of the 6336B. Saw that it wasn't pin size causing the tight fit, same spec size as the others, just excess solder at the bottom ~1/8" of the pin. Used fine sandpaper to clean any excess, no problem after that.


----------



## UntilThen

Last night I watch the most thrilling tennis match of the Australian Open between 2 gutsy female players. I sat glued to the TV, with Eikon on my head and music amplified by GOTL. I was listening to all my favourite songs while watching the match of the decade. What an experience ! Congrats Caroline and Simona. You are both champions in my eyes. 

But you have no idea what my ears went through the 2 hours 50 mins match.


----------



## Hansotek

rnros said:


> Also check the pins, had a similar problem with one pair of the 6336B. Saw that it wasn't pin size causing the tight fit, same spec size as the others, just excess solder at the bottom ~1/8" of the pin. Used fine sandpaper to clean any excess, no problem after that.



Thanks for the tip. I’ll check that out.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The stickers on the Philips Miniwatt FDD20's are "Tax Stamps"?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Wow! Just wanted you thank you all for congratulating me on the GOTL! I haven’t been on a thread that has been this positive in a very long time (or ever for that matter ha). I’m VERY happy to be a card carrying Glenn member. Excited to learn from you all!


UntilThen said:


> Use socket savers if you're going to roll the crap out of the OTL amp.
> 
> A few posts back, Hans talk about using ECC31 and 6336 on the OTL amp with Auter. I'm using those tubes now with Eikon. This is an incredible sounding setup. I should take the GOTL to a meet soon. More people needs to sample this amp.


I really appreciate this. I have heard of tube savers but not this brand. I will totally look into this!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Thanks
> 
> Did you put the noodles in the pool?



After 1.5 months, I finally set the noodles free. Will go in for a dip. It's so hot here !!!


----------



## 2359glenn

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Wow! Just wanted you thank you all for congratulating me on the GOTL! I haven’t been on a thread that has been this positive in a very long time (or ever for that matter ha). I’m VERY happy to be a card carrying Glenn member. Excited to learn from you all!
> 
> I really appreciate this. I have heard of tube savers but not this brand. I will totally look into this!



This is probably the best socket saver to get. Best to use them if you are planing to do allot of tube rolling.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-...289479?hash=item2c7f005607:g:gsQAAOSwPcVVmj7t


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> After 1.5 months, I finally set the noodles free. Will go in for a dip. It's so hot here !!!



Wish it was hot here!!  Cant wait or winter to be over.


----------



## mordy (Jan 27, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> This is probably the best socket saver to get. Best to use them if you are planing to do allot of tube rolling.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-...289479?hash=item2c7f005607:g:gsQAAOSwPcVVmj7t



I have been using inexpensive octal socket savers for several years without any problems. The advantage is that the socket savers act as insulators and lower the temp of the amp, in addition to saving wear and tear on the original sockets.
I just leave the socket adapters in permanently, and keep on changing the tubes.
Not saying that they are the best quality, but they do the job.
I think I paid around $12 (or less) for four, including shipping.
Below is a link to the seller with an offering of 2 octal and 2 9pin socket savers for $9.33 shipped. When I emailed the seller in the past, they did not mind changing it to all octals.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bakelite-V...hash=item25858c6b06:m:mtu8UZmglaJtJtsA7sC6K9A


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> This is probably the best socket saver to get. Best to use them if you are planing to do allot of tube rolling.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-...289479?hash=item2c7f005607:g:gsQAAOSwPcVVmj7t



Thanks for the recommendation. I picked up four of those myself.


----------



## yates7592

2359glenn said:


> This is probably the best socket saver to get. Best to use them if you are planing to do allot of tube rolling.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-...289479?hash=item2c7f005607:g:gsQAAOSwPcVVmj7t



Thanks. Which of the GOTL sockets will this fit in?


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 28, 2018)

yates7592 said:


> Thanks. Which of the GOTL sockets will this fit in?



All but not the loctal sockets for the C3g.
You will need 8 of them to cover all the octal sockets.
I got all the holes on the top plate on your amp drilled yesterday.
And today is a rainy day so I can spend the hole day working on your amp.


----------



## yates7592

2359glenn said:


> All but not the loctal sockets for the C3g.
> You will need 8 of them to cover all the octal sockets.
> I got all the holes on the top plate on your amp drilled yesterday.
> And today is a rainy day so I can spend the hole day working on your amp.



Just what I wanted to hear!! Bring on the rain....


----------



## whirlwind

Giving the OTL a spin this morning with the ZMF Atticus.

Listening to the new Tinsley Ellis

 

 

 

42EC4  -  5998  -  1633 Ken Rad

It is wonderful to see you cranking out all of these new amps Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Giving the OTL a spin this morning with the ZMF Atticus.
> 
> Listening to the new Tinsley Ellis
> 
> ...



After I finish the one I am working on have 5 more to go.
Waiting on Transformers that I ordered before Christmas and a couple of chassis.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 28, 2018)

The amp is better using the 42EC4 rectifier because using a 5U4 or 3DG4 takes away from total filament current
of the amplifier tubes. Takes 3 amps away leaving 10.6 amps of total load.
Plus the 42EC4 is higher current then any of these rectifiers but of course no rectifier rolling.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> I got all the holes on the top plate on your amp drilled yesterday.
> And today is a rainy day so I can spend the hole day working on your amp.



This is exciting news for yates!


----------



## rnros

yates7592 said:


> Just what I wanted to hear!! Bring on the rain....



You might get the OTL before the adapters arrive. 
But I'm sure you won't be disappointed by that.
Get the tubes ready.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> After I finish the one I am working on have 5 more to go.
> Waiting on Transformers that I ordered before Christmas and a couple of chassis.



Quite a workload!  One man amp factory


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The amp is better using the 42EC4 rectifier because using a 5U4 or 3DG4 takes away from total filament current
> of the amplifier tubes. Takes 3 amps away leaving 10.6 amps of total load.
> Plus the 42EC4 is higher current then any of these rectifiers but of course no rectifier rolling.




I love the damper diodes from the old tv's..I remember them from my fathers tv shop. So they are a win , win for me.
I also love that they can be bought really cheap. Stan hooked me up with a bunch of these.
I know Tony has lost an expensive 300B tube when one of these blew, but they have been rock solid for me.
I like how you have them wired for one to come on before the other.

I have a lifetime supply  
The ones in the GE boxes range from Panasonic, Toshiba, RCA, GE


----------



## 2359glenn

What did you pay $1 each cant beat that.  10 for $10


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> The amp is better using the 42EC4 rectifier because using a 5U4 or 3DG4 takes away from total filament current
> of the amplifier tubes. Takes 3 amps away leaving 10.6 amps of total load.
> Plus the 42EC4 is higher current then any of these rectifiers but of course no rectifier rolling.



I am not sure I understand this correctly...   3 amps plus 10.6 amps equals 13.6 amps (Lundahl transformer). Since a 3DG4 draws 3.8amps, wouldn't the total available for drivers and output tubes actually be 9.8 amps?


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 28, 2018)

Actually using resistors to drop 6.3 to 5 and 3 the 3DG4 is running a little under voltage so it draws less  so it draws about 3.
Not the best but everyone wants to roll rectifiers and with the Lundahl transformer this is the only option.
Your transformer has a 5 volt 5 amp winding with a 3.3 volt tap made for these rectifiers.
And the Lundahl transformer is 250 VA and can be run a little over current. And the high voltsge
secondary is 860ma the amp draws no were near that. witch allows more to be drawn off the filament
winding's.


----------



## gibosi

Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I think I understand....

So, if one wants to run 4-volt rectifiers with the Lundahl transformer...  The eBay adapters will add more resistance to drop 5 volts down to 4 (assuming they have been designed and constructed properly). But if one uses one of your modified eBay 4-volt adapters, a 4-volt rectifier will be running at 3 volts. Do you think this would be a problem?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I think I understand....
> 
> So, if one wants to run 4-volt rectifiers with the Lundahl transformer...  The eBay adapters will add more resistance to drop 5 volts down to 4 (assuming they have been designed and constructed properly). But if one uses one of your modified eBay 4-volt adapters, a 4-volt rectifier will be running at 3 volts. Do you think this would be a problem?



According to there current draw there is 1 ohm resistance for the 3DG4. If you do ohms law R X I  so 1 ohm X 3 amps = 3 volts drop.6.3 - 3 = 3.3
If the tube draws 2 A 1onm X 2A = 2 volts    6.3 - 2 = 4.3 volts.  This is easy to calculate.


----------



## gibosi

Yes, this seems easy to calculate. To check my understanding:

For an RGN4004, which draws 4 amps, there would be a 4 volt drop => 6.3 - 4 = 2.3 volt heater. Seems too low to me? So if I understand correctly, with Lundahl transformers, if one is going to use a 4-volt rectifier in a 3DG4 "socket", it might be best to avoid using rectifiers drawing more than 3 amps? (And in fact, these high-current 4-volt rectifiers are fairly rare...)


----------



## 2359glenn

But it could be used in the 5 volt configuration but it would have to draw 4 amps. in 5 volt there is a .5 ohm resistor.
So 4 X .5 = 2 and 6.3 - 2 = 4.3 that would work.


----------



## gibosi

Now that you are offering OTLs with Lundahl transformers and 5-volt tube rectifiers, the above information could be very useful to those who wish to roll 4-volt rectifiers, especially those with B-4 bases. I have about 15 different B-4 based 4-volt rectifiers with heater current values of 2.4, 2.5, 2.8, 3.0, 3.4, 3.5, 3.75 and 4.0 amps. And obviously, no B-4 adapter found on eBay can be optimal for all of these values. Having a choice of adapters for B-4 rectifiers would certainly provide a bit more flexibility. And as a welcome result, it would also be safer.


----------



## 2359glenn

The best for these tubes is your amp with the US transformer and the adapter with no resistor.
I do have a request for a amp with the US transformer they are on order being wound.


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> The best for these tubes is your amp with the US transformer and the adapter with no resistor.
> I do have a request for a amp with the US transformer they are on order being wound.



I have the same transformer as @gibosi on my OTL, right? So I can run any rectifiers he’s running?


----------



## gibosi

Yes indeed. In my amp, with a B-4 to 3DG4 adapter, it is literally plug and play. I never even have to think about heater current. All my B-4 rectifiers just work, even the 4-amp 1817 monster.


----------



## 2359glenn

But the adapter has to be modified and rewired as a 3DG4.


----------



## gibosi

Hansotek said:


> I have the same transformer as @gibosi on my OTL, right? So I can run any rectifiers he’s running?



I am pretty sure that Glenn uses only two transformers, a standard US-made transformer and the more expensive Lundahl. So if you don't have the Lundahl, then you have the same one I do.

I also bought a cheap B-4 to 5U4G adapter and sent it to Glenn for modification. Essentially, he removed the resistors and rearranged the connections to turn it into a B-4 to 3DG4 adapter. And it works like a charm. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/UU4-AZ1-UU...3-GZ30-socket-1pcs-for-amplifier/261755368485


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> But the adapter has to be modified and rewired as a 3DG4.


Can you make this adapter for us?


----------



## Hansotek

Good God, I love this amp. All these crazy tube rolls and adaptors make it WAY too much fun. It’s like a little mad scientist’s laboratory.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> I am pretty sure that Glenn uses only two transformers, a standard US-made transformer and the more expensive Lundahl. So if you don't have the Lundahl, then you have the same one I do.
> 
> I also bought a cheap B-4 to 5U4G adapter and sent it to Glenn for modification. Essentially, he removed the resistors and rearranged the connections to turn it into a B-4 to 3DG4 adapter. And it works like a charm.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/UU4-AZ1-UU...3-GZ30-socket-1pcs-for-amplifier/261755368485


I had the adapter made by xulingmrs
It was ok but running a little hot on a u18/20

So if we can run on a 3dg4 setting with a bit of tweaking, I'm all out for it


----------



## yates7592

bunnynamedfrank said:


> I am going to take the HD800 and also Grado GH1 from the store to listen to tomrorow night. Can’t wait to hear the HD800 on the GOTL



How did it go with HD800?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

yates7592 said:


> How did it go with HD800?


Incredible. 

It's obvious that Glenn built the GOTL with that headphone in mind... Its so freaking open sounding and effortless. I also like that The HD800 didn't sound as thin as I am used to hearing it on most solid stage gear. I have amps at the store that take the sibilance off the HD800, but it doesn't do much in regards to it sounding thin to my ears. The GOTL added a little more body to the HD800, which to me is always welcomed. It makes me want one!!! I would love to tube roll it to find out what else its capable of.

Interestingly enough  I have been kind of turned off of the HD800 as of late due to the arrival of the Focal Clear and Utopia. BUT with the GOTL it makes me realize how special the width and depth of the HD800 can be, and is praised for (among other great attributes). It starts to make me feel that other headphone's stages are too narrow!

The Clear on the other hand I was not blown away by on the GOTL. The music felt forced or something. Shouty? I don't know... It just didn't have the magic that I have heard it with the other amps we have at work. 

I truly think I was spoiled by the perfect impedance match of both 300ohm cans, HD800 and HD600. I think the synergy is just crazy strong with both those cans!


----------



## 2359glenn

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Incredible.
> 
> It's obvious that Glenn built the GOTL with that headphone in mind... Its so freaking open sounding and effortless. I also like that The HD800 didn't sound as thin as I am used to hearing it on most solid stage gear. I have amps at the store that take the sibilance off the HD800, but it doesn't do much in regards to it sounding thin to my ears. The GOTL added a little more body to the HD800, which to me is always welcomed. It makes me want one!!! I would love to tube roll it to find out what else its capable of.
> 
> ...



This amp makes the HD800 a hole new set of phones that is hard to beat.


----------



## UntilThen

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Incredible.
> 
> It's obvious that Glenn built the GOTL with that headphone in mind... Its so freaking open sounding and effortless. I also like that The HD800 didn't sound as thin as I am used to hearing it on most solid stage gear. I have amps at the store that take the sibilance off the HD800, but it doesn't do much in regards to it sounding thin to my ears. The GOTL added a little more body to the HD800, which to me is always welcomed. It makes me want one!!! I would love to tube roll it to find out what else its capable of.
> 
> ...



I had a similar experience when I first had Glenn's OTL amp. HD800 sounded very natural and has body to me. Bass presentation is what makes me smile. It's still not a basshead headphone but what's there is enjoyable for me. There's more impact now. Above all, it's the instruments separation that is the icing on the cake. 

Switching over to Eikon initially, I felt that the music is shouty too. You use the right word but I experience it on a different headphone. Only after a few tube changes and probably after my ears got adjusted that I started to enjoy Eikon on the GOTL again. With Eikon, vocals sound right in front of me. With HD800, it is slightly elevated to my forehead.


----------



## JazzVinyl

How about the Senn 650, and Glenn's OTL?


----------



## yates7592

My (3rd) pair of HD800 shipped today! No pressure Glenn


----------



## UntilThen

I haven't use HD650 for a while. It's like the forgotten child. 

I will try it tonight.


----------



## rnros

yates7592 said:


> My (3rd) pair of HD800 shipped today! No pressure Glenn



How many will you be using at one time?


----------



## 2359glenn

yates7592 said:


> My (3rd) pair of HD800 shipped today! No pressure Glenn



They probably will be there before the amp have at least a week to go.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> They probably will be there before the amp have at least a week to go.



That's all? That's fast.


----------



## yates7592

2359glenn said:


> They probably will be there before the amp have at least a week to go.



At least a week....that would be incredible! Must be raining real hard on the other side of the pond.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> How about the Senn 650, and Glenn's OTL?



Great pairing, I have owned the HD650 three times.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Great pairing, I have owned the HD650 three times.


Bought the HD650 from Massdrop a couple of months ago, and I am listening to it right now. I prefer it over my T1 Gen1 - less detail but more musical.


----------



## JazzVinyl

More bass too, Mordy?  I like Bass.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> More bass too, Mordy?  I like Bass.


Would have to compare the headphones directly. To me the main difference expressed in Kelvin is 2900 (HD650) vs 5000 (t1) if you know what I mean.


----------



## mordy

In anticipation of a GOTL I bought some Cetron 6336B tubes:





I hope these are the real thing with carbon plates.
In the absence of an amp that can handle the 5A/channel, is it safe to test them in one channel of my amp (6SN7 and 6336B) that can handle 7A total for all four tubes?


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 29, 2018)

mordy said:


> Would have to compare the headphones directly. To me the main difference expressed in Kelvin is 2900 (HD650) vs 5000 (t1) if you know what I mean.



Hmmmm, expressed in Kelvin.....2900 is more towards candlelight/warm?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> In anticipation of a GOTL I bought some Cetron 6336B tubes:



You are officially in line, Mordy?


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Hmmmm, expressed in Kelvin.....2900 is more towards candlelight/warm?


2900 is yellowish warm and soft; 5000 is electronic flash bulb white and revealing


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> You are officially in line, Mordy?


Awaiting a US transformer and word from 2359glenn to firm up the specs.


----------



## leftside

I need to crank the 300B to about the 2 o clock position with my LCD-3's (and preamp at 40 out of 100) to get a fairly decent/loud sound. Is this common with the rest of the Glenn amps? With an 8 watt amp I wouldn't have thought I'd have needed to crank the volume control so much.


----------



## JazzVinyl

JazzVinyl said:


> You are officially in line, Mordy?



Ah, great,Mordy!!  Congrats!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> I need to crank the 300B to about the 2 o clock position with my LCD-3's (and preamp at 40 out of 100) to get a fairly decent/loud sound. Is this common with the rest of the Glenn amps? With an 8 watt amp I wouldn't have thought I'd have needed to crank the volume control so much.



How loud is your source?  I have some sources that are louder than others. My favorite source is somewhat anemic and my volume is much higher for that one...


----------



## leftside

Two sources: turntable and DAC. Obviously the DAC is louder than the turntable. 

I'd have thought that an 8 watt amp cranked almost 3/4 of the way around would have been really loud. Just wondering if all the Glenn amps are like this. If I start cranking my preamp past 50-60 things start getting very loud (too loud/painful), but at this volume on the preamp with my regular amp and speakers I'd be blowing the roof off the house.


----------



## UntilThen

With my GOTL, using c3g and 6 x 6BX7, 10am using LCD-2f is loud. 11am would be really loud.

With Ken Rad 1633 and 5998, it's at about 11am. At 12noon, it's really loud. This is using PC (Tidal) to Yggdrasil to GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> I hope these are the real thing with carbon plates.
> In the absence of an amp that can handle the 5A/channel, is it safe to test them in one channel of my amp (6SN7 and 6336B) that can handle 7A total for all four tubes?



Those are the good stuff. I have the same 6336b. I wouldn't be testing those tubes in amps that aren't designed to handle that much amperes.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I'd have thought that an 8 watt amp cranked almost 3/4 of the way around would have been really loud.



I'm really surprised that it's not really LOUD at 3/4 on the volume knob with your 300b amp. If I had the volume at that level on the GOTL, I'd be saying goodbye to my hearing.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 30, 2018)

leftside said:


> I need to crank the 300B to about the 2 o clock position with my LCD-3's (and preamp at 40 out of 100) to get a fairly decent/loud sound. Is this common with the rest of the Glenn amps? With an 8 watt amp I wouldn't have thought I'd have needed to crank the volume control so much.



What are you talking gain or watts? I don't understand the clock position 9:00  11:00  2:00 people mention this has nothing to do with power output.
The more gain a amp has the more noise it will pick up. I rather the volume control is further up for the volume I want to listen to.
Why have allot of gain and just eliminate signal in the volume control.
And volume controls I use are logarithmic and all the resistance is on the top end. This way it has better adjustment at low levels were most people are listening under 1 watt.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Awaiting a US transformer and word from 2359glenn to firm up the specs.



What specs do you want to firm up?


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 30, 2018)

All of my amps sound better the higher that I get my volume control.

Not that they sound bad when the volume control is on 8 or 9 o'clock....but they all sound better to my ears when i can get up on the volume pot a little.

For instance, seems with todays digital music...Mp3 compression is so that it will be loud when played on most devises....can't get very high on the volume pot of my amps.
44/16 Flac I can get up higher on the volume pot of my amps....the higher i get on my pot the better the music sounds.
DSD is compressed in a way that it requires you to get up even higher on the volume pot to get the same loudness....it sounds wonderful and the edges of the music are really rounded and smooth...plus the amps volume pot gets to breath a little and the amp shows it stuff much better.


When my EL3N amp is one tube stage...I can get my volume pot up to around 5 o'clock...sounds sublime with no distortion what so ever..


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Bought the HD650 from Massdrop a couple of months ago, and I am listening to it right now. I prefer it over my T1 Gen1 - less detail but more musical.



It is a great headphone and easy to listen too for long sessions ...comfy too.

Congrats on your amp....I take it you will use 5 volt rectifiers.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> It is a great headphone and easy to listen too for long sessions ...comfy too.
> 
> Congrats on your amp....I take it you will use 5 volt rectifiers.


Was thinking of a ss rectifier (Hexfred?) and the amp I want has to have a preamp output.


----------



## leftside

With other amps I have (for speakers) it is quite common to see recommendations to set the gain on the amps to the max and control the volume through the preamp. Glenn, are you saying this is the same for the 300B?


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> I'm really surprised that it's not really LOUD at 3/4 on the volume knob with your 300b amp. If I had the volume at that level on the GOTL, I'd be saying goodbye to my hearing.


That’s what I would have thought too.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> What are you talking gain or watts? I don't understand the clock position 9:00  11:00  2:00 people mention this has nothing to do with power output.
> 
> I rather the volume control is further up for the volume I want to listen to.
> .


A clock position of 2 should be louder than a clock position of 9. Turning the volume clock wise should increase the volume.

Do you mean “further up the chain” when you say “further up” - ie control volume via the preamp?


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> With other amps I have (for speakers) it is quite common to see recommendations to set the gain on the amps to the max and control the volume through the preamp. Glenn, are you saying this is the same for the 300B?



Yes that would be fine.
I don't even have a volume control on my 300B amps.  Just use the preamp volume.


----------



## JazzVinyl

My SS power amps all run full tilt as well (no volume knob), and the preamp controls the volume....


----------



## gibosi

I use a preamp with the OTL. If I turn the volume of the OTL to the max (with the US transformer) and then adjust it down with the preamp, there is too much noise. So I have to do things differently....

My practice: First, turn the preamp volume to max and then adjust the OTL volume to a level that is just slightly louder than is comfortable. Once the OTL volume is set, I can then adjust the volume down to the desired level with the preamp.

I should note that tube rolling often requires re-calibration. For example, I currently rotate 27, SN7 and 3Cg. As the 3Cg have considerably more gain than the SN7 and 27, the OTL volume setting for the C3g has to be increased for the SN7, and increased even more for a pair of 27s.


----------



## yates7592

I understood the general advice was not to use a preamp with OTL?


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> A clock position of 2 should be louder than a clock position of 9. Turning the volume clock wise should increase the volume.
> 
> Do you mean “further up the chain” when you say “further up” - ie control volume via the preamp?



I meant further up on the volume control if we are going by clock position between 12:00 and 5:00


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> With other amps I have (for speakers) it is quite common to see recommendations to set the gain on the amps to the max and control the volume through the preamp. Glenn, are you saying this is the same for the 300B?



Yes


----------



## gibosi

yates7592 said:


> I understood the general advice was not to use a preamp with OTL?



As above, I have been using a preamp with the OTL for the last three years and it works fine for me. But of course, YMMV...


----------



## leftside

Thanks Glenn!


----------



## 2359glenn

yates7592 said:


> I understood the general advice was not to use a preamp with OTL?



You Don't need to  And the more electronics in the signal path usually sounds worse.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> That’s what I would have thought too.



I see. You are using a preamp. I am not. I'm using dac into GOTL.


----------



## gibosi

As Glenn says, a preamp is not necessary with the OTL. But to clarify, I use a preamp, actually a DAC with volume-controlled outputs, with the OTL for ergonomic reasons. The OTL is very heavy and up on a shelf. And when I lay back to relax and listen to music, I cannot reach the volume control. Since the DAC/preamp is very light, I can easily drag it over to the edge of the desk to control the volume. So again, it works very well for me. But otherwise, using a preamp with the OTL provides no sonic advantage.

And while I am on the subject, I have been thinking about getting a Meier-audio Corda DACCORD. It seems to be pretty good and it has volume-controlled outputs. Has anyone here had any experience with it?

http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/


----------



## Hansotek

Rolled in a quad of 6080s with the C3Gs and Miniwatt GZ34 tonight. It was a little bright on the HD800 - BUT, I just tossed on the HD660S and it is absolutely stellar. My favorite roll on for the 660S so far. Nice and open with pretty much perfect balance across all the frequencies. Bass is tight and punchy. Best pacing I’ve heard from this headphone yet - right in the sweet spot, IMO. Very engaging sound.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Very nice, Hansotek     Wish I could hear it


----------



## gibosi

I am pleased to report that I now have a quiet pair of RCA 27, which were actually manufactured by GE in a factory located on Ivanhoe Road, Cleveland, Ohio, in 1930. And I was surprised to learn that GE is still operating a factory at this location, manufacturing lighting equipment. And interestingly, some 100 years ago, that Ivanhoe Road factory started out manufacturing lighting equipment. As they say, it has come "Full circle"....

Ge Lighting
1099 Ivanhoe Rd, Cleveland, OH 44110
(216) 266-4612

http://www.ibegin.com/directory/us/ohio/cleveland/ge-lighting-1099-ivanhoe-rd/

Also shown, a quad of Tung-Sol 6BX7 and a GEC U18/20, stuffed into a Glenn-modified adapter. Sounds great!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Very nice g...!!!

Congrats on quiet 27's.  Your set shown here, another pairing I hope to hear one day.  

Cheers...


----------



## attmci

Hansotek said:


> Rolled in a quad of 6080s with the C3Gs and Miniwatt GZ34 tonight. It was a little bright on the HD800 - BUT, I just tossed on the HD660S and it is absolutely stellar. My favorite roll on for the 660S so far. Nice and open with pretty much perfect balance across all the frequencies. Bass is tight and punchy. Best pacing I’ve heard from this headphone yet - right in the sweet spot, IMO. Very engaging sound.



Wow, where did you find the metal base Miniwatt GZ34? Seems it's the most expensive tube in the chain.


----------



## Hansotek

attmci said:


> Wow, where did you find the metal base Miniwatt GZ34? Seems it's the most expensive tube in the chain.



It was graciously loaned to me from @zach915m for a couple weeks to compare with a couple of other rectifiers. We exchange lots of notes on gear and stuff. Going to miss this thing when I have to give it back, it’s an absolutely stellar tube.


----------



## attmci (Jan 31, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> It was graciously loaned to me from @zach915m for a couple weeks to compare with a couple of other rectifiers. We exchange lots of notes on gear and stuff. Going to miss this thing when I have to give it back, it’s an absolutely stellar tube.


Ic

Any other rectifier tubes you were impressed? Have you compared this with a non-metal base one? Thx!

I happened to find Yates sold his GZ34 a couple of years ago.


----------



## Hansotek

attmci said:


> Ic
> 
> Any other rectifier tubes you were impressed? Have you compared this with a non-metal base one? Thx!



I have not compared with the black base. I have some more on the way that should be good. Really excited for the RK60 and also for the 4V tubes now. Of the stuff I've heard so far, I've been most impressed by the bang-for-buck value of RCA rectifiers. I have their 5U4G, 5U4GB and 5AW4 and they are all excellent. One came with the amp and the other two cost me less than $30 combined. The RCA 5U4GB has excellent holographic depth layering for a tube of any price, let alone one that costs $10-$12. 5AW4 is great with the 6336. Being a great tube with a great rep is one thing, but it's a lot of fun when you just take a flyer on something that is under $20 and it turns out to be really good.


----------



## rnros

Hansotek said:


> I have not compared with the black base. I have some more on the way that should be good. Really excited for the RK60 and also for the 4V tubes now. Of the stuff I've heard so far, I've been most impressed by the bang-for-buck value of RCA rectifiers. I have their 5U4G, 5U4GB and 5AW4 and they are all excellent. One came with the amp and the other two cost me less than $30 combined. The RCA 5U4GB has excellent holographic depth layering for a tube of any price, let alone one that costs $10-$12. 5AW4 is great with the 6336. Being a great tube with a great rep is one thing, but it's a lot of fun when you just take a flyer on something that is under $20 and it turns out to be really good.



Hi Hansotek, 
Similar experience with the 5AW4 and 6336B, great combination. To me, with 4 month old GOTL, the 5CU4 is even better, a bit more open and immediate at the same time. 
But the RK 60 is an even bigger win with the 6336B, my default rectifier at the moment.  : )  Along with the C3g as driver.

Also like those Tung Sol/Chatham 6080s you have mounted, they are just a little bit bright at times. Best of the 6080s that I have (no GECs).
However, combining a pair with another 6080 pair is a good idea, will have to try that.


----------



## ru4music

rnros said:


> ...To me, with 4 month old GOTL, *the 5CU4 is even better*, a bit more open and immediate at the same time...



Thanks for the reminder, I have a couple of Raytheon 5CU4s that I need to try out in the GEL3N (per Glenn's reco.)  But wait... inexpensive tubes can't sound good, can they?    Ya right, tell that to my EL3Ns and 3DG4.


----------



## Hansotek

rnros said:


> Hi Hansotek,
> Similar experience with the 5AW4 and 6336B, great combination. To me, with 4 month old GOTL, the 5CU4 is even better, a bit more open and immediate at the same time.
> But the RK 60 is an even bigger win with the 6336B, my default rectifier at the moment.  : )  Along with the C3g as driver.
> 
> ...



My GEC 6080s are worlds better than these. Smoother up top, way more fine detail and the soundstage is huge relative to the Chathams & Tung-Sols.... but these do sound really great with the 660S. I think I still prefer the 6336 or 6BL7 quad for everything else though... and you can have both for less than the price of one GEC 6080!

I heard the RK60 and 6336 was a great combo - it was probably from you, hahaha! I'd have to go back and look. I can't find 5CU4's anywhere.... not to stressed about that with the RK60 on the way though. 

If you get a chance, you should try the Mullard ECC31 (w/ 6sn7 adaptor) as the driver with the 6336. That combo packs a monster punch!!


----------



## rnros

ru4music said:


> Thanks for the reminder, I have a couple of Raytheon 5CU4s that I need to try out in the GEL3N (per Glenn's reco.)  But wait... inexpensive tubes can't sound good, can they?    Ya right, tell that to my EL3Ns and 3DG4.



Raytheon is what I have also, and yes, thanks goes to Glenn for that recommendation.
Guess we have to remember that the expensive tubes were also inexpensive at one time. 

Waiting, almost patiently, to hear the EL3Ns.  : )


----------



## rnros

Hansotek said:


> My GEC 6080s are worlds better than these. Smoother up top, way more fine detail and the soundstage is huge relative to the Chathams & Tung-Sols.... but these do sound really great with the 660S. I think I still prefer the 6336 or 6BL7 quad for everything else though... and you can have both for less than the price of one GEC 6080!
> 
> I heard the RK60 and 6336 was a great combo - it was probably from you, hahaha! I'd have to go back and look. I can't find 5CU4's anywhere.... not to stressed about that with the RK60 on the way though.
> 
> If you get a chance, you should try the Mullard ECC31 (w/ 6sn7 adaptor) as the driver with the 6336. That combo packs a monster punch!!



I will try to find the Mullard ECC31, in fact, have already started looking since your post. : )
The Cetron 6336B, with a couple hundred hours on them, are fantastic. (Maybe about 60h or a little more to settle.)

Only problem I had with the RK 60 was with the adapter, just too much play with the available adapter in the standard ceramic socket.
Thought the tube itself had occasional noise. Putting a little external pressure on tube eliminated the noise.
Solution for me was to use high temp O-rings at the base to eliminate the play between adapter base and socket.
Dead quiet, no occasional low level hum, and I swear the stage seemed to clean up even more.
Makes sense I guess, even if a vibration is inaudible, it can cause the low level spacial cues to be lost or distorted.


----------



## yates7592

attmci said:


> I happened to find Yates sold his GZ34 a couple of years ago.



Ah Yes! When I was selling my Lampi DAC. I could really use that GZ34 now damn!


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> I will try to find the Mullard ECC31



I would recommend this. Expensive but Langrex tubes are tip top.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NR73-ECC31...521579?hash=item3d2937b46b:g:1VQAAOSwImRYCf20


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I would recommend this. Expensive but Langrex tubes are tip top.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NR73-ECC31...521579?hash=item3d2937b46b:g:1VQAAOSwImRYCf20



The ECC31 is one that continues to rise in price as supply dries up, similar to 5998's and everything bearing the GEC label.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Feb 1, 2018)

I wonder how 2x EL3N as powers and C3g sounds in Glenn's OTL that includes C3g sockets?

1x EL3N as powers and C3g as drivers sounds awfully good in Elise, which is not specially biased for C3g...


----------



## UntilThen

There's a drop in gain when I was using c3g and EL3Ns in Elise with HE560 planar headphone. A pretty substantial drop in gain. I stop using it as it seems abnormal that the gain drop so sharply. C3g with 5998 on Elise works well though.

Should get Glenn to make you a GEL3N amp if you're interested in c3g and EL3N.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Feb 1, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> There's a drop in gain when I was using c3g and EL3Ns in Elise with HE560 planar headphone. A pretty substantial drop in gain. I stop using it as it seems abnormal that the gain drop so sharply. C3g with 5998 on Elise works well though.
> 
> Should get Glenn to make you a GEL3N amp if you're interested in c3g and EL3N.



Yes, gain is way lower in Elise with 1x EL3N as powers,  but there still enough to power to drive high Z Sennheiser cans. 

I know Glenn's EL3N amp uses an output transformer.  And can't roll in C3g's in the GEL3N

But wonder how a Glenn OTL  using 2x EL3N's per side as powers and his dedicated C3g sockets....would preform. (may not be suitable for low Z cans,,,?)


----------



## UntilThen

I experience drop in gain when using c3g and 4 x EL3Ns in Elise. I.e 2 x EL3Ns in each power sockets. The drop in gain didn't just happen with 1 x EL3N per socket.

As for using multiple EL3Ns as power tubes in GOTL, that's not for me. GOTL has enough combinations to satisfy me so I don't see the need to experiment using pentode tubes in the amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I experience drop in gain when using c3g and 4 x EL3Ns in Elise. I.e 2 x EL3Ns in each power sockets. The drop in gain didn't just happen with 1 x EL3N per socket.
> 
> As for using multiple EL3Ns as power tubes in GOTL, that's not for me. GOTL has enough combinations to satisfy me so I don't see the need to experiment using pentode tubes in the amp.



Interesting that 2x EL3N's per side didn't increase gain. And roger that, on 'not for you'....

BTW - C3g's are Pentodes


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I would recommend this. Expensive but Langrex tubes are tip top.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NR73-ECC31...521579?hash=item3d2937b46b:g:1VQAAOSwImRYCf20



Thanks, UT. Looking forward to trying the ECC31 with both the 6336B and the 6BX7.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> BTW - C3g's are Pentodes



I know that but those C3gs are specifically designed for the amp.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Thanks, UT. Looking forward to trying the ECC31 with both the 6336B and the 6BX7.



You're welcome rnros. ECC31 works very well with 6336b and 6bx7. As well as other power tubes. I've been running ECC31 and 5998 for several days now.


----------



## Monsterzero

Can someone explain the pros and cons of a hexafred vs. tube on the sound of the Glenn OTL.
I understand one can save $ by going SS,but what other pros are there?


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Interesting that 2x EL3N's per side didn't increase gain.



It's not so much about increasing the number of EL3Ns used. It's just using c3gs as drivers and EL3Ns as power tubes that I experience a drop in gain - in Elise (I have to qualify here). That's what I'm trying to say. Strange that is so because when using 2 x EL3Ns as drivers and 4 x EL3Ns as power tubes, gain is strong and back to normal.


----------



## TonyNewman

monsterzero said:


> Can someone explain the pros and cons of a hexafred vs. tube on the sound of the Glenn OTL.
> I understand one can save $ by going SS,but what other pros are there?



I can throw some thoughts out there based on going from PY500 to SS rectification for the 300B SET amp. I know this is not an OTL amp, but I would not expect the results to be all the different between the OTL and 300B SET in terms of SQ change for SS vs tube rectification (that's an assumption - take it as you find it).

Pros:
Increased transparency. This is particularly noticeable low down. Tube rectification seems to struggle with bass more so than mids or treble in my limited experience with tube gear. SS rectification unleashes the low down rumble, if your other tubes (driver/output) are up to it. My 300B amp provides bass quality/quantity that would stand up to many a SS amp. My Master 9 amp does bass a little bit better, but not by much. I have a GS-X Mk2 coming soon and will be interested to A/B the Glenn 300B against it.
Reliability - a failed rectifier can be catastrophic - perhaps more so than a driver or output tube. The reason is that a blown rectifier can trip the house circuit breaker - and that can put a power spike through your home power supply - and that can be VERY nasty for your gear. Happened to me when a PY500 went bad and it did some serious damage. Never had this with blown drivers or output tubes.

Cons:
Slight decrease in 'tubiness' of the amp. The C3g drivers in my amp are extremely transparent, so almost all of the tube character of my amp comes from the 300B only. There are times some extra tube character would be nice (but that is nitpicking).
Limits tube rolling options. Tube rectification opens another avenue to tube rolling and changing the sound with different glass. This didn't really apply to the 300B amp as it used PY500s - if the is any SQ difference between the PY500s then I never heard it - but that is not the case with other rectifiers. You can swap rectifiers around and get a change in the SQ.


----------



## Monsterzero

TonyNewman said:


> Lots of good info.



Thanks for that.
What im gathering from your comments is a SS rectifier will increase bass slam and cleanliness and improve detail up top,while maintaining a decent amount of tubeness in the mids.Fair?
Its my understanding that Glenn offers a SS/tube optional rectifier for best of both worlds?


----------



## TonyNewman

monsterzero said:


> Thanks for that.
> What im gathering from your comments is a SS rectifier will increase bass slam and cleanliness and improve detail up top,while maintaining a decent amount of tubeness in the mids.Fair?
> Its my understanding that Glenn offers a SS/tube optional rectifier for best of both worlds?



I think is fair - yes.

For many rectifiers types there are plug in hexfreds which also give SS rectification effects (not for PY500, unfortunately). These can also be an option and are not that expensive.

I had my amp modded locally for SS rectification. My PY500s still glow as the heaters are still powered up, but nothing else is connected.

In hindsight, I probably would have asked Glenn for 5U4G/274B rectification. That way I could tube roll and use plug in hexfreds for SS.


----------



## Monsterzero

Ive been lurking in this thread for awhile now and i must admit to feeling a bit overwhelmed with the knowledge the members here have with tubes and the various electronic designs.
A few of you guys have received one or more PMs from me asking noob questions,and everyone has been gracious with their time and opinions.I appreciate that.I know next to nothing about tubes,other than I love the sound,as I explained to Glenn in a PM. Hopefully he and I can connect soon and I can place a well informed order for my own Glenn OTL.


----------



## UntilThen

monsterzero said:


> Ive been lurking in this thread for awhile now and i must admit to feeling a bit overwhelmed with the knowledge the members here have with tubes and the various electronic designs.
> A few of you guys have received one or more PMs from me asking noob questions,and everyone has been gracious with their time and opinions.I appreciate that.I know next to nothing about tubes,other than I love the sound,as I explained to Glenn in a PM. Hopefully he and I can connect soon and I can place a well informed order for my own Glenn OTL.



You will find everyone here helpful and very keen with Head-Fi. 

I cannot answer your last question though about the sonic differences between GOTL, GEL3N and Glenn's 300b amp because I've not heard the last 2. I know I'm very happy with my hexfred GOTL amp and if I have no other amps, I'll be happy with it solely.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I know that but those C3gs are specifically designed for the amp.



Your right, and I didn't think about that.   I am so used to running them as Triode strapped,  in an SN7 socket.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> I wonder how 2x EL3N as powers and C3g sounds in Glenn's OTL that includes C3g sockets?
> 
> 1x EL3N as powers and C3g as drivers sounds awfully good in Elise, which is not specially biased for C3g...



I believe you can only use the EL3N as drivers in Glenn's OTL.

They sound very good, wonderful bass after an extended burn in time.

Thing is that they go to another level with Glenn's topology that is more suited for them, to get the most from them.


----------



## Hansotek

monsterzero said:


> Thanks for that.
> What im gathering from your comments is a SS rectifier will increase bass slam and cleanliness and improve detail up top,while maintaining a decent amount of tubeness in the mids.Fair?
> Its my understanding that Glenn offers a SS/tube optional rectifier for best of both worlds?



You can buy a plug-in solid state replacement rectifier on ebay for $10-$20. Tube Depot also carries them for $10.


----------



## Hansotek

Speaking of rectifiers, I just got this RK60/1641 in the mail today. Unfortunately, I’ll probably have to wait another week or two before the adaptor shows up. Might be just enough time to clean all this dust off it.


----------



## whirlwind

Hansotek said:


> You can buy a plug-in solid state replacement rectifier on ebay for $10-$20. Tube Depot also carries them for $10.





Hansotek said:


> Speaking of rectifiers, I just got this RK60/1641 in the mail today. Unfortunately, I’ll probably have to wait another week or two before the adaptor shows up. Might be just enough time to clean all this dust off it.




Great looking rectifier!

Look forward to your impressions.


----------



## attmci (Feb 1, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> Great looking rectifier!
> 
> Look forward to your impressions.


This is a great tube found by Glenn. He used to ................ LOL


----------



## leftside

monsterzero said:


> Can someone explain the pros and cons of a hexafred vs. tube on the sound of the Glenn OTL.
> I understand one can save $ by going SS,but what other pros are there?


I tried a SS rectifier with my Woo WA22. It was certainly very quiet, but I couldn't help but feeling it produced a slightly dry sound. But, I also have a hard time hearing much difference between tubes (unless the differences are very obvious) due to the amount of time it takes to wait for the first tube to cool down before you can remove it, then adding the replacement tube and waiting for it to warm up before you can listen again. And I tend to hear even fewer differences with rectifiers vs power or driver tubes. When swapping headphones or changes sources (i.e. DAC to turntable) my brain/ears seems to lock down and identify audible differences very quickly though.

Perhaps the SS rectifier provides more bass slam. This would be a reason for me not to use one, as I find my system provides just the right amount of bass as is. Any more bass and it would be a little overwhelming. My dedicated listening area with my headphone setup is all tubes (preamp and amps). 

Like Tony, I would have liked my 300B to have the option of rolling in tube rectifiers and solid state rectifiers. Certainly wouldn't hurt to try the differences.


----------



## mordy

TonyNewman said:


> I can throw some thoughts out there based on going from PY500 to SS rectification for the 300B SET amp. I know this is not an OTL amp, but I would not expect the results to be all the different between the OTL and 300B SET in terms of SQ change for SS vs tube rectification (that's an assumption - take it as you find it).
> 
> Pros:
> Increased transparency. This is particularly noticeable low down. Tube rectification seems to struggle with bass more so than mids or treble in my limited experience with tube gear. SS rectification unleashes the low down rumble, if your other tubes (driver/output) are up to it. My 300B amp provides bass quality/quantity that would stand up to many a SS amp. My Master 9 amp does bass a little bit better, but not by much. I have a GS-X Mk2 coming soon and will be interested to A/B the Glenn 300B against it.
> ...


I have been following the discussion about ss vs tube rectification with interest, It appears to me that an amp with a socket for a rectifier and then a plug in hexfred would give you the best of both worlds,
However, I am very sensitive to the possibility of blown equipment, having lost one amp and a receiver in the past.
Glenn: Would it be possible to incorporate a protective circuit in your design to prevent these things from happening?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Hey guys I was curious about what 12sn7 and 25sn7 tubes you all thought sounded nice with the HD600? I’m looking for cheaper tubes to take advantage of the switch I got put on my GOTL. 

Also any cheaper tubes ($20 and less) in general you enjoy with the HD600 would be appreciated as well. I would like my descent to be slow while I fall completely down the tube rabbit hole.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I have been following the discussion about ss vs tube rectification with interest, It appears to me that an amp with a socket for a rectifier and then a plug in hexfred would give you the best of both worlds,
> However, I am very sensitive to the possibility of blown equipment, having lost one amp and a receiver in the past.
> Glenn: Would it be possible to incorporate a protective circuit in your design to prevent these things from happening?



It is likely that I have rolled more rectifiers in the GOTL than anyone, and in the process, I have had a number of rectifiers fail. And in those cases the fuse did its job. I simply installed a new rectifier and fuse, and resumed listening to music. So IMHO, as long as you have an adequate supply of fuses, rolling rectifiers is nothing to worry about.


----------



## TonyNewman (Feb 1, 2018)

That's an excellent point. The amp was shipped to me with a power fuse appropriate for backarsewards 110V, not civilised 230V. *cough*Glenn*cough*.

So roughly twice the amperage rating that it should have had. Around 2.5A if I remember correctly. I didn't think to swap it out with something lower rated (currently running 1A - 1.2A) until after Armageddon had unfolded. It was more than a year ago so those fuse ratings are a bit fuzzy in my brain.

I have had fuses blow subsequently (not by a blown PY500), but never tripped the house circuit breaker again.

Might be a combination of blown PY500 and wrong fuse rating that did me in.

I would be hesitant to ask for more protective circuitry in the amp unless absolutely necessary. The more gizmos in the audio path the more the SQ could be impacted.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> I have been following the discussion about ss vs tube rectification with interest, It appears to me that an amp with a socket for a rectifier and then a plug in hexfred would give you the best of both worlds,
> However, I am very sensitive to the possibility of blown equipment, having lost one amp and a receiver in the past.
> Glenn: Would it be possible to incorporate a protective circuit in your design to prevent these things from happening?


It's safe to use a rectifier tube in your future amp and highly recommend that.


----------



## rnros

I also had a rectifier that failed, resulting in a blown fuse, no other damage.
And Glenn was thoughtful enough to provide backup fuses with the amp, so didn't have to hunt for a replacement.
Downtime was about 90 seconds.


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> I also had a rectifier that failed, resulting in a blown fuse, no other damage.
> And Glenn was thoughtful enough to provide backup fuses with the amp, so didn't have to hunt for a replacement.
> Downtime was about 90 seconds.


Thanks for settling the issue.
Now it looks like I should get an amp with a rectifier and a plug in hexfred.


----------



## Hansotek

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Hey guys I was curious about what 12sn7 and 25sn7 tubes you all thought sounded nice with the HD600? I’m looking for cheaper tubes to take advantage of the switch I got put on my GOTL.
> 
> Also any cheaper tubes ($20 and less) in general you enjoy with the HD600 would be appreciated as well. I would like my descent to be slow while I fall completely down the tube rabbit hole.



Can’t answer the 12V / 25V input question, but this is definitely my new favorite HD600 tube roll:

Dual C3G drivers
GEC 6080 power tubes
RCA Tall bottle 5U4GB rectifier 




The RCA can be too warm with a lot of tubes, but the C3Gs and the GEC 6080s are both relatively neutral, airy and transparent, which makes the tall bottle a perfect match. It gives the HD600 an open/airy feel with a nice dose of natural warmth and some really good thump down low in the midbass. One of the most dynamic presentations I’ve heard from the HD600.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 3, 2018)

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Hey guys I was curious about what 12sn7 and 25sn7 tubes you all thought sounded nice with the HD600? I’m looking for cheaper tubes to take advantage of the switch I got put on my GOTL.
> 
> Also any cheaper tubes ($20 and less) in general you enjoy with the HD600 would be appreciated as well. I would like my descent to be slow while I fall completely down the tube rabbit hole.




I can not speak for the HD600 headphone, as I have only ever heard one for a short period of time.

Sometimes you can find a nice little lot of tubes, for not much money...here is a lot with many different constructions of tubes, would keep you busy rolling driver tubes for sometime and you could hear the differences from each tube.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mixed-Lot-...719484?hash=item3f7b4f133c:g:D4sAAOSwX61ZBeCX
You may even find some cheaper.

As far as 25SN7 tubes, they will be labeled 1633...and you can usually find RCA smoked glass for between $5 -$10
Ken Rad usually cost a little more.
Brimar 13D1 is a nice 25SN7 also, but they seemed to have taken quite a price jump since I bought mine a few years ago.


----------



## UntilThen (Feb 2, 2018)

Write to Langrex for the Brimar 13D1. I bought 2 from them at 10 pounds each about 2 months ago.

Bought a NOS Ken Rad 1633 from another ebay vendor for $13. It's all gone now.


----------



## UntilThen

Still loving Glenn's OTL as much as on day 1. With these tubes and Glenn's splendid layout, it sounds as good as it looks with HD800. This is my setup for this weekend.

Tung Sol 6F8G and Gec 6as7g.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Beautiful amp, UT...!  Wow!!  Eye poppin' gorgeous


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Beautiful amp, UT...!  Wow!!  Eye poppin' gorgeous



Thanks JV and I feel privileged to be the owner of this amp. Not only is it eye poppin' but it's also ear poppin' gorgeous. 

Yates is the next to get one. He has no idea what's coming his way.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yates is a lucky so and so....


----------



## 2359glenn

Just sent a E-Mail to Langrex trying to get some 13D1s 
Is there anyone in the us that might want one?


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Yates is a lucky so and so....



After ordering my OTL in April, 2014, I waited eleven months, taking delivery in March, 2015. But recently, it seems to me that Glenn is pushing amps out the door in record time.

And I wonder... perhaps Glenn has recently hired some secret elves to help him? lol  Or more likely, I figure that I simply ordered mine at a time when he had a serious backlog...

Since wait-times are much shorter now, I would say that all of you new guys are lucky so and sos....


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> After ordering my OTL in April, 2014, I waited eleven months, taking delivery in March, 2015. But recently, it seems to me that Glenn is pushing amps out the door in record time.
> 
> And I wonder... perhaps Glenn has recently hired some secret elves to help him? lol  Or more likely, I figure that I simply ordered mine at a time when he had a serious backlog...
> 
> Since wait-times are much shorter now, I would say that all of you new guys are lucky so and sos....



When you ordered yours I just got out of the hospital and was in allot worse shape then now.
Still can't work on amps every day  some days I get out of work and am useless. The chemotherapy drug kicks my ass
but keeps me alive.


----------



## gibosi

Glenn, I am glad to learn that the reason you are pushing amps so much faster now is that you are feeling better!

Cheers!


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> When you ordered yours I just got out of the hospital and was in allot worse shape then now.
> Still can't work on amps every day  some days I get out of work and am useless. The chemotherapy drug kicks my ass
> but keeps me alive.



Take care Glenn!
Get well soon


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> When you ordered yours I just got out of the hospital and was in allot worse shape then now.
> Still can't work on amps every day  some days I get out of work and am useless. The chemotherapy drug kicks my ass
> but keeps me alive.



Glenn, thank you from the bottom of my heart. Your making these gorgeous amps while undergoing chemotherapy drugs leaves me speechless.....


----------



## UntilThen

I was ask whether it's better to have c3g as driver options over the SN7 option in Glenn's OTL, by quite a few people. I'll post my thoughts here rather than replying to each individually.

I would recommend getting both c3g and SN7 driver options.  I would hate to choose one over the other. I really think you should have both in the GOTL.

Why? Because they present the utmost infinite ways to get great tones by varying those drivers with power tube combination. c3g is a great driver option. So clear and some kick ass tight bass. Transparency, dynamics and utmost clarity. These are simply outstanding drivers.

Similarly though, there are many great driver tubes in the SN7 option. 1633, 13D1, B36, Sylvania 6sn7w, Tung Sol 6F8G, FDD20, ECC31, ECC35 (haven't touch this yet), the list goes on.


----------



## leftside

We all appreciate your work Glenn. I've recently been through another round of upgrades and the Glenn 300B adapts marvelously. Sometimes in the past when I've upgraded, the existing amps didn't do the new upgraded component justice - almost held the upgraded piece back. Not so with the Glenn 300B. My used -  but new to me - Benz Micro LP-S cart combined with the 300B reveals a startling amount of detail and dynamics with amazing imagining. The bass is super tight. 

I'm slowly but surely upgrading my components to a similar price level, but I don't feel I need to upgrade the 300B. I consider it to be worth twice it's price - which is probably about right when you consider we get these amps directly from the builder, and don't pay the extra mark-up when purchasing from a store.


----------



## UntilThen (Feb 2, 2018)

This is the core specs of my GOTL. I really think it's the best but I'm biased of course. 

6 x 6BL7 or 2 / 4 x 6as7 or 2 x 6336 as power tubes
2 x C3g as driver tubes or 1 6sn7 / 12sn7 / 25sn7 as driver tube
6.3, 12.6 or 25.2 volts switch
5998 boost switch
Lundahl transformer
Gold Point 47 steps attenuator
HEXFRED rectifiers.

Note:- Tube or Hexfred rectifiers or both that's up to you.

In lieu of Gold Point 47 steps attenuator, you can go with plain vanilla ALPs volume pots.... but I love the GP attenuator.
5998 boost switch is optional.

The 2 large caps on top of the chassis are BHC made in Great Brittan and all the rest of the electrolytic caps are Sprague Atom. ~ Glenn.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I was ask whether it's better to have c3g as driver options over the SN7 option in Glenn's OTL, by quite a few people. I'll post my thoughts here rather than replying to each individually.
> 
> I would recommend getting both c3g and SN7 driver options.  I would hate to choose one over the other. I really think you should have both in the GOTL.
> 
> ...



I agree. I was the first to order a Glenn OTL with C3g sockets in addition to the standard SN7, and I have absolutely no regrets. To my way of thinking there is no one "best" driver. I have a bunch of them, all different but equally good. As a colleague puts it, this isn't a case of black and white, but rather slightly different shades of gray. And again, all slightly different but equally good.

It is tax season in the US, and I have been working on them most of the evening, so I am pretty stressed out. Now it is time to unwind with some good music. I recently came across Caitlyn Smith's new album, Starfire, and am looking forward to spending the next hour with her.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> ECC35 (haven't touch this yet), the list goes on.


Why not? Those are better than the regular 6SN7 tubes (as are all the ECC31 - ECC35 tubes).


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Why not? Those are better than the regular 6SN7 tubes (as are all the ECC31 - ECC35 tubes).



Because whenever I bid for a ECC35, I get outbid by every man and his dog. 

ECC31 is good but I wouldn't categorise it as better than Sylvania 6sn7w or Tung Sol 6F8G. YMMV tho. I would put them on the same level of sonic goodness. Different tone.

Can you please describe the differences between ECC31 and ECC35 .... tonally?


----------



## leftside

Can't remember those specifics to be honest. I just remember they all rock! Powerful and bold. ECC33 and ECC35 have extra gain. Think my wife is running the ECC35's in the Woo WA22 right now.

Might be some sellers outside eBay selling the ECC35's. Sometimes they appear on the classifieds here and on other music selling sites like Audiogon. Rare, but not as rare or desirable as the ECC32's.


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> When you ordered yours I just got out of the hospital and was in allot worse shape then now.
> Still can't work on amps every day  some days I get out of work and am useless. The chemotherapy drug kicks my ass
> but keeps me alive.



Hats off to you Glenn and sorry for making changes to my build when it should have been finalised. Glenn has been very accommodating to my requests so far. Hope you stay healthy and happy!


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> Hats off to you Glenn and sorry for making changes to my build when it should have been finalised. Glenn has been very accommodating to my requests so far. Hope you stay healthy and happy!



Let's see.. you ask for the GOTL, GEL3N and 300b amps to be merged into one. I've been tasked to make your amp. Wait to see the final product.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> Let's see.. you ask for the GOTL, GEL3N and 300b amps to be merged into one. I've been tasked to make your amp. Wait to see the final product.



You’ve got me excited! Can’t wait to see the creation!


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Still loving Glenn's OTL as much as on day 1. With these tubes and Glenn's splendid layout, it sounds as good as it looks with HD800. This is my setup for this weekend.
> 
> Tung Sol 6F8G and Gec 6as7g.



Does not look like you are roughing it this weekend   








UntilThen said:


> I was ask whether it's better to have c3g as driver options over the SN7 option in Glenn's OTL, by quite a few people. I'll post my thoughts here rather than replying to each individually.
> 
> I would recommend getting both c3g and SN7 driver options.  I would hate to choose one over the other. I really think you should have both in the GOTL.
> 
> ...




Agreed...get both options. Don't think twice.


----------



## yates7592

So, can we use ECC32 and ECC35 safely in GOTL?


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Does not look like you are roughing it this weekend



Believe me, it's been very rough weekend so far. 

Music has never sounded so good than with this combo. I don't want to remove it.


----------



## Monsterzero

It appears I will be joining the GOTL owners club.based upon this thread,PMs with yall and talking to Glenn I am looking at the following


Amp with Lundahl transformer 
6.3-12.6-25.2 volt switch 
6 output tube sockets 
C3g sockets 
Pre out and rectifier socket and HEXFRED adapter 

How does this look to you guys and is there anything I am missing other than the gold point stepped attenuator (which I cant really afford)?


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> So, can we use ECC32 and ECC35 safely in GOTL?



It's too rich for my blood. Stick to my poor man's combo above and you'll be alright. 

ECC35 has an amplification of 70 vs 20 of the 6SN7. I don't know how it will turn out on GOTL. ECC32 is too trauma inducing on the wallet.


----------



## whirlwind

monsterzero said:


> It appears I will be joining the GOTL owners club.based upon this thread,PMs with yall and talking to Glenn I am looking at the following
> 
> 
> Amp with Lundahl transformer
> ...



Looks great


----------



## yates7592

monsterzero said:


> It appears I will be joining the GOTL owners club.based upon this thread,PMs with yall and talking to Glenn I am looking at the following
> 
> 
> Amp with Lundahl transformer
> ...



Congrats! There are quite a few of us on the list now, so some very interesting and rewarding musical times to come. Your spec looks exactly the same as mine, bar the attenuator.


----------



## UntilThen

monsterzero said:


> It appears I will be joining the GOTL owners club.based upon this thread,PMs with yall and talking to Glenn I am looking at the following
> 
> 
> Amp with Lundahl transformer
> ...



You miss out the 1 SN7 socket but I'm assuming it will be there since you have the 6.3 / 12.6 / 25.2 volt switch?

Ummmm I wonder what the layout will be like. You will have 6 output sockets, 2 x c3g sockets, preamp out tube socket, rectifier socket and SN7 socket.

That's 11 sockets.


----------



## gibosi

And he's missing 300B and ELN3 sockets?


----------



## Monsterzero

I am The Socket King...I can do anything....

I copied and pasted what Glenn wrote to me,so im guessing he will put in the SN7 socket.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> And he's missing 300B and ELN3 sockets?



Of course. 

They are having Super 11. That's a soccer team. My Super 9 is outdated now. Stavros's Super 10 is also outdated.


----------



## whirlwind

monsterzero said:


> I am The Socket King...I can do anything....
> 
> I copied and pasted what Glenn wrote to me,so im guessing he will put in the SN7 socket.



Yes, you will have the SN7 socket as you have the 6/12/25 volt switch


----------



## Monsterzero

Im predicting a few tube rolling suggestion requests in your guys future


----------



## Hansotek

monsterzero said:


> It appears I will be joining the GOTL owners club.based upon this thread,PMs with yall and talking to Glenn I am looking at the following
> 
> 
> Amp with Lundahl transformer
> ...



That amp is going to be a MONSTER!!! Wow!!!


----------



## Monsterzero

Hansotek said:


> That amp is going to be a MONSTER!!! Wow!!!



Your inbox is going to be full! Sorry......


----------



## Hansotek

monsterzero said:


> Your inbox is going to be full! Sorry......



I’m legit jealous!


----------



## rnros

monsterzero said:


> It appears I will be joining the GOTL owners club.based upon this thread,PMs with yall and talking to Glenn I am looking at the following
> 
> 
> Amp with Lundahl transformer
> ...



Great choices. Congrats!


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> Just sent a E-Mail to Langrex trying to get some 13D1s
> Is there anyone in the us that might want one?



Yes, I would like to get a couple of those. Thanks, Glenn.
Checked the Langrex stocklist, shows 92 in stock, if that list is up to date.


----------



## rnros

Hansotek said:


> Speaking of rectifiers, I just got this RK60/1641 in the mail today. Unfortunately, I’ll probably have to wait another week or two before the adaptor shows up. Might be just enough time to clean all this dust off it.



Looks great. Looking forward to your impressions.
I've seen two construction variations with this tube, the General Electronics like your photo,
the other Raytheon/GE/ RCA version like the photo below. This is the version I have.


Spoiler: Raytheon 1641 RK60


----------



## yates7592

UntilThen said:


> It's too rich for my blood. Stick to my poor man's combo above and you'll be alright.
> 
> ECC35 has an amplification of 70 vs 20 of the 6SN7. I don't know how it will turn out on GOTL. ECC32 is too trauma inducing on the wallet.



Yes, I quite agree. I was just wondering, having read that ECC32 and ECC35 are both high gain and high current drivers, whether they could safely work in GOTL, and if so, maybe only with certain power tubes?


----------



## Hansotek

rnros said:


> Looks great. Looking forward to your impressions.
> I've seen two construction variations with this tube, the General Electronics like your photo,
> the other Raytheon/GE/ RCA version like the photo below. This is the version I have.
> 
> ...



Funny you should mention it, as the adaptor just arrived in the mail today. 

This is my first roll with the 1641 (C3G drivers and GEC 6080s), but I can already tell you this is the best I’ve ever heard the Atticus sound. The synergy here is just a tour-de-force, as this has the creamy mids I’ve been looking for to match with the organic flowing sound of the Atticus.



Without the benefit of direct comparison, I’m definitely feeling the super romantic mids I heard from the CSP3 with the GZ32 rectifier here, but the staging and separation is better than I remember - this feels more technically “correct” than I can recall the Atticus sounding. Also, as with the GZ32 & CSP3 (and to some extent the Ampsandsound Agartha), you can seemingly turn up the Atticus to infinity without listening fatigue... so one should definitely be mindful there so you don’t damage your ears.

When you do turn it up a bit though, those dynamics are really thunderous. Crazy slam. Crazy bass. And this is just the first roll. I’m not expecting it to synergize like this with everything, but the math really was adding up to this being an end game tube for Atticus, and it did not disappoint!


----------



## rnros (Feb 3, 2018)

Fantastic. Similar to my experience with the '43 GE version. LOL, Finesse & Thunder! 
Combined with the C3g and 6336B, it goes from cymbals to kettledrums with equal precision. And everything in between.
Beautiful texture and timbre with both instrument and voice. The stage is impressive, wouldn't think to look for anything else.
On stage alone, the 596 may be a little larger, but with a slight loss of texture/presence, it may be related to FR perception.
Beautiful tube.

Edit: Looking forward to hearing GOTL with one of the ZMF phones, maybe the Auteur before the end of the year.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> Yes, I would like to get a couple of those. Thanks, Glenn.
> Checked the Langrex stocklist, shows 92 in stock, if that list is up to date.



I looked to but they are not on there site. There stock list shows 92
Hope to get a E-Mail back from them on Monday.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I looked to but they are not on there site. There stock list shows 92
> Hope to get a E-Mail back from them on Monday.



When I bought mine, they are not on their website too. After I email Langrex, the first response was they don't have it but 2 days later Mr Langrex himself replied and told me they have it. That's how I got 2.


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> Yes, I quite agree. I was just wondering, having read that ECC32 and ECC35 are both high gain and high current drivers, whether they could safely work in GOTL, and if so, maybe only with certain power tubes?



Yates, I don't know and I'm not in a hurry to explore these because the drivers and power tubes that I have now, have given me 101% satisfaction. Some of the tubes are now way overpriced because they are so rare. There's a pair of ECC32 going for $800.

Try Tung Sol 6F8g and Gec 6as7g though. It's pure euphony.


----------



## Hansotek

rnros said:


> Fantastic. Similar to my experience with the '43 GE version. LOL, Finesse & Thunder!
> Combined with the C3g and 6336B, it goes from cymbals to kettledrums with equal precision. And everything in between.
> Beautiful texture and timbre with both instrument and voice. The stage is impressive, wouldn't think to look for anything else.
> On stage alone, the 596 may be a little larger, but with a slight loss of texture/presence, it may be related to FR perception.
> ...



Yeah, RE: the stage. Depth layering is fantastic.

Just tried the 1641 with 4 6BL7s... that was not nearly as good for synergy. Felt kinda rugged and bright in comparison. Probably need a different driver for those - something decisively on the warm side. Popping in the 6336s now!!


----------



## Hansotek

Ha! The 6336 isn't even warmed up yet and it's already better than the 6BL7s. The 1641 / RK60 is clearly able to deal the the 6336's current-hungry ways.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Yates, I don't know and I'm not in a hurry to explore these because the drivers and power tubes that I have now, have given me 101% satisfaction. Some of the tubes are now way overpriced because they are so rare. There's a pair of ECC32 going for $800.
> 
> Try Tung Sol 6F8g and Gec 6as7g though. It's pure euphony.



Does Yates already have a pair of GEC 6AS7G?  They are not exactly a "bargain" these days, either....


----------



## UntilThen (Feb 3, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Does Yates already have a pair of GEC 6AS7G?  They are not exactly a "bargain" these days, either....



GEC 6as7g are not a bargain indeed but for the price of a pair of ECC32, you can buy both Tung Sol 6F8G and Gec 6as7g (both in pairs).


----------



## 2359glenn

yates7592 said:


> Yes, I quite agree. I was just wondering, having read that ECC32 and ECC35 are both high gain and high current drivers, whether they could safely work in GOTL, and if so, maybe only with certain power tubes?



They will work fine maybe a bit more gain
I wouldn't use them with 6336 output tubes as the filament current may go over the transformer rating.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Yes, I would like to get a couple of those. Thanks, Glenn.
> Checked the Langrex stocklist, shows 92 in stock, if that list is up to date.



A couple? Don't buy it all. 

I don't want to highlight the Brimar 13D1 too much but they go toe to toe compared with the Tung Sol 6F8G, paired with Gec 6as7g.


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## UntilThen

JV, how does it sound?


----------



## JazzVinyl

It indeed is superb!  This NU (rebranded Ken-Rad) is very nice...solid bass, sweet mids and top end.  I like it!


----------



## UntilThen

The reality is it doesn't take expensive tubes to make the GOTL sing and sing it did on Brimar 13D1 with Svetlana 6H13C.

I'm enjoying this so much on HD800. I'm moving like the drummer. He's feeling it. Glenn's OTL is so good on rock.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> GEC 6as7g are not a bargain indeed but for the price of a pair of ECC32, you can buy both Tung Sol 6F8G and Gec 6as7g (both in pairs).


Agreed that the ECC32's even though are very fine sounding tubes are over-priced collectors items. But dammit man - you are doing yourself a disservice by not trying the ECC33's and ECC35's on that fine OTL


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Agreed that the ECC32's even though are very fine sounding tubes are over-priced collectors items. But dammit man - you are doing yourself a disservice by not trying the ECC33's and ECC35's on that fine OTL



I'm hugging my piggy bank for dear life and you're trying to break it.

Wait I'm bidding on a NOS Tung Sol 6sn7gt black glass round plate. If I don't get that, I'll turn my attention on a ECC33 or 35.


----------



## Hansotek

JazzVinyl said:


>



What tube is that?


----------



## JazzVinyl (Feb 3, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> What tube is that?



National Union 6F8G - that turned out to be a rebadged Ken Rad.
Behind is a 1970 Mullard 6080...they are in the Feliks Elise, not a Glenn OTL (yet).


----------



## UntilThen

I'll have a Woo Audio WA5 next weekend for a week. Will do a side by side comparison with GOTL.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> I'll have a Woo Audio WA5 next weekend for a week. Will do a side by side comparison with GOTL.



My own experience of my WA5 (with top glass) vs Glenn 300B went like this:






The WA5 won for euphonic tubiness - in every other department the Glenn won hands down. Detail, dynamics, transparency, sheer cream-my-panties-and-die-happy-in-ecstasy, it was the Glenn amp, all the way. Sold the WA5 and never missed it.


----------



## Hansotek

That should be interesting.


----------



## UntilThen

I'll try to start off impartial. I'll start with this frame of mind.


----------



## Hansotek

The 1641/C3G/6336 combo was awesome, by the way. For a $22 set of tubes, they weren't that far off from the much pricier GEC 6080's overall with the Atticus. Like 95% as good. I gotta try a better pair at some point. 

I’m listening to the GEC 6080s again now though, and I stand by my earlier assessment about the synergy. The mids have a touch more emotion and transparency, and it really gets all the way there. Just spot-on perfect.


----------



## Monsterzero

Are you rolling in warmer tubes for the Eikon & Auteur or do you feel whats working for the Atticus works across the ZMF board?


----------



## Hansotek

monsterzero said:


> Are you rolling in warmer tubes for the Eikon & Auteur or do you feel whats working for the Atticus works across the ZMF board?



I like a slightly warmer roll with the Auteur, usually. I haven’t tried this yet though, it might be better. It’s just fun mixing and matching everything. So many different synergies.


----------



## yates7592

UntilThen said:


> I'll have a Woo Audio WA5 next weekend for a week. Will do a side by side comparison with GOTL.



Yes that will be very interesting!


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> When you ordered yours I just got out of the hospital and was in allot worse shape then now.
> Still can't work on amps every day  some days I get out of work and am useless. The chemotherapy drug kicks my ass
> but keeps me alive.



Please take care of yourself Glenn...

Just unpacked my Glenn 300B after my recent relocation more than a month ago, the last amp in my audio gear since the tubes are more delicate.  Listening to it again now, still the king out of my current setup, so clear, so dynamics, so engaging, so musical, pretty amazing.
Listening now with ZMF Auteur Teak that I received just a couple days ago, very good pairing, the 300B added musical warmth to the engaging yet neutral Auteur, really liking the paring.  Will need to compare with the Utopia once the Auteur burn in a bit more.

To everyone who is on the waiting list.. you have something very special coming, definately worth the wait.

The King sitting on his throne, above everyone else


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> I'm hugging my piggy bank for dear life and you're trying to break it.
> 
> Wait I'm bidding on a NOS Tung Sol 6sn7gt black glass round plate. If I don't get that, I'll turn my attention on a ECC33 or 35.



Alright @leftside  I was outbid on the TS 6sn7gt bgrp but I managed to win this Haltron ECC33. It's NOS and cost as much as my Sylvania 6sn7w metal base !


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 4, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I'll try to start off impartial. I'll start with this frame of mind.



Ha ha  


All the ECC tube talk has inspired me to roll in the ECC31 in the OTL this morning.




Listening with the Atticus to some old Bonamassa and Eric Czar's bass solo is freakin'  incredible, album is New Day Yesterday Live.




I will get a chance to hear the ZMF Auteur in April.
Someone wants to hear it with Glenn's amps and lives in Ohio.
Great chance for me to hear the Auteur and great chance for him to hear Glenn's amps.
I look forward to it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Speaking of albums with great Bass guitar.   

Bob Welsh’s short lived group “Paris” had the former Tull bassist Glen Cornick in it and all the Paris albums have rauchous bass lines....


----------



## JazzVinyl (Feb 4, 2018)

Khragon said:


> The King sitting on his throne, above everyone else



Awesome looking beast upon the throne!!
Love the all Black look of the amp, too.


----------



## whirlwind

Heavy, wet snowman snow is falling here.

Glenn, would you like some


----------



## Redmetal1897

Been bombarding Glenn and Dave nonstop via PM so figured I should give them a break  Would appreciate some clarity around the following, the more I read the more confused I seem to get

The rectifier socket, does that essentially let you switch between the tube and SS rectifier? Does that mean the stock OTL comes with either one or the either? If you get just the tube rectifier, is there an adapter that lets you use an SS? How does that differ from what the hexfred offers?


----------



## 2359glenn

Daanish said:


> Been bombarding Glenn and Dave nonstop via PM so figured I should give them a break  Would appreciate some clarity around the following, the more I read the more confused I seem to get
> 
> The rectifier socket, does that essentially let you switch between the tube and SS rectifier? Does that mean the stock OTL comes with either one or the either? If you get just the tube rectifier, is there an adapter that lets you use an SS? How does that differ from what the hexfred offers?



The adapter will have HEXFRED diodes in it


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Heavy, wet snowman snow is falling here.
> 
> Glenn, would you like some



No Joe you can keep the snow.  Raining here started as ice.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 4, 2018)

If you get 5 volt tube rectifier, then you get get an hexfred rectifier, which makes your tube rectification SS.

So, yes...it is an adapter.

If you use 42EC4/PY500  tube rectifier, there is no adapter for hexfred....but the sound while still a tube sound, gives a backround dark as midnight
No tube rolling with this option..  Only available if you use Lundahl transformer.

Never mind...Glenn answered.


----------



## gibosi

Daanish said:


> Been bombarding Glenn and Dave nonstop via PM so figured I should give them a break  Would appreciate some clarity around the following, the more I read the more confused I seem to get
> 
> The rectifier socket, does that essentially let you switch between the tube and SS rectifier? Does that mean the stock OTL comes with either one or the either? If you get just the tube rectifier, is there an adapter that lets you use an SS? How does that differ from what the hexfred offers?



There are three common GOTL rectifier configurations: 1) 5-Volt tube, 2) TV damper diode (PY500 / 42EC4) and 3) built-in HEXFRED solid state.

Of these three, the 5-volt tube configuration has the most tube rolling options. And it just so happens that Glenn can stuff a HEXFRED sold state rectifier into an octal socket, so you can also use HEXFRED in the 5-volt configuration. (I would guess that B+ is about 16 volts higher, 256V with a plug-in HEXFRED compared to 240V with the built-in HEXFRED, but I have no idea if this results in an audible difference.)

A Glenn plug-in HEXFRED: Not much to look at, but it does the trick.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Alright @leftside  I was outbid on the TS 6sn7gt bgrp but I managed to win this Haltron ECC33. It's NOS and cost as much as my Sylvania 6sn7w metal base !


Nice. Looks like a rebranded Mullard. The OTL just takes 1?


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Nice. Looks like a rebranded Mullard. The OTL just takes 1?



To my knowledge, only Mullard manufactured the ECC33, so I sure hope it is. 

And yes, the OTL uses only one driver.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Feb 4, 2018)

Just in case anyone didn't already know...the FRED in HEXFRED stands for *F*ast *RE*covery *D*iode.
Multiple diodes are used for solid state rectification.

Rectifiers turn AC into DC, there are advantages and disadvantages of each method (Tube or Solid State).
There is a good explanation of Tube vs Solid State rectification (in relation to tube guitar amps) here:

http://carlscustomamps.com/tube-vs-solid-state-rectifers/


----------



## Redmetal1897

gibosi said:


> There are three common GOTL rectifier configurations: 1) 5-Volt tube, 2) TV damper diode (PY500 / 42EC4) and 3) built-in HEXFRED solid state.
> 
> Of these three, the 5-volt tube configuration has the most tube rolling options. And it just so happens that Glenn can stuff a HEXFRED sold state rectifier into an octal socket, so you can also use HEXFRED in the 5-volt configuration. (I would guess that B+ is about 16 volts higher, 256V with a plug-in HEXFRED compared to 240V with the built-in HEXFRED, but I have no idea if this results in an audible difference.)
> 
> A Glenn plug-in HEXFRED: Not much to look at, but it does the trick.



I see! So then you can essentially go back and forth with the 5-volt tube and the Hexfred?


----------



## gibosi

Daanish said:


> I see! So then you can essentially go back and forth with the 5-volt tube and the Hexfred?



Yes, in a GOTL with 5-volt tube rectification, you treat it exactly like a tube. So, for example, you pull out 3DG4 and plug-in the HEXFRED.


----------



## JazzVinyl

It is my understanding that the Octal Base hexfred rectifier contains two SS rectifiers.  Which works for "pulsing" direct current.

If you choose built in hexfred/SS rectifier, then you get four hexfred diodes for a full wave bridge rectifier.  This results in a steady stream of DC current (not pulsing DC).

Audible difference?


----------



## Hansotek

JazzVinyl said:


> Just in case anyone didn't already know...the FRED in HEXFRED stands for *F*ast *RE*covery *D*iode.
> Multiple diodes are used solid state rectification.
> 
> Rectifiers turn AC into DC, there are advantages and disadvantages of each method (Tube or Solid State).
> ...



I think the preference between tubes and solid state often comes down to how the listener wants to interpret the performance. While a solid state is often more accurate to the feel of a master playing off the studio monitors, I feel like tubes are better at reproducing the feel of a live performance. For one (in my experience), tubes usually have a little better depth layering, which gives you more of a feel of a room with instruments in a three-dimensional space. I think the sag and harmonics also give the bass a little more roundedness, which makes it sound a lot more like it does in real life. Bass is essentially non-directional - it reverberates off of every possible surface it can. As a bassist myself, in my opinion, very few (if any, IMHO) solid state headphones amplifiers can accurately reproduce the sound of an upright bass. It might be more "accurate" to closely mic the bass or DI it from a pickup and run it through a solid state amp in an absolute sense, but _it will not be as accurate as to how it sounds in a room_. Accurately recording and reproducing low-end frequencies is nowhere near as straightforward as recording and playing back a voice, guitar, saxophone, etc. In my opinion, tubes get you much closer to the original live sound, as it is in the room.

YMMV, of course. I always like to have both tube and solid state options at my disposal.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Just in case anyone didn't already know...the FRED in HEXFRED stands for *F*ast *RE*covery *D*iode.
> Multiple diodes are used for solid state rectification.
> 
> Rectifiers turn AC into DC, there are advantages and disadvantages of each method (Tube or Solid State).
> ...


Hi JV,
Re HEXFRED, now I know what FRED means, but what is HEX?


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> It is my understanding that the Octal Base hexfred rectifier contains two SS rectifiers.  Which works for "pulsing" direct current.
> 
> If you choose built in hexfred/SS rectifier, then you get four hexfred diodes for a full wave bridge rectifier.  This results in a steady stream of DC current (not pulsing DC).
> 
> Audible difference?



The output of any 5-volt tube rectifier is a "pulsing DC", which is then smoothed out with inductors and capacitors. So in this sense, it would appear that the octal based hexfred is not significantly different than a 5-volt tube rectifer. How this differs from a full-wave bridge is a question for Glenn.


----------



## Hansotek

I feel like you should get an honorary degree in engineering if you hang around this thread for long enough, lol. I'll have to start rocking this soon:


----------



## Monsterzero

Just sent funds to get my Monster Eleven Glenn OTL started(name courtesy of Hansotek).


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Nice. Looks like a rebranded Mullard. The OTL just takes 1?



Just take 1? If the OTL takes 2, I won't be buying it. This tube is more expensive than caviar.


----------



## UntilThen

I chose HEXFRED because I like Fred Flintstone when I was growing up.

Ultimately this seals the deal. You can't deny that this hexfred OTL is a work of art. It is beautiful. As for loosing touch of the tube sound, you have no idea what the many varied combination of driver and power tubes can give you. You can go from extreme tubiness to extreme rock hard cafe.


----------



## SonicTrance (Feb 4, 2018)

gibosi said:


> How this differs from a full-wave bridge is a question for Glenn.


You only use a bridge if the PT is not center tapped. If there’s a center tap you use normal full wave rectification, two diodes.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Feb 4, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> Re HEXFRED, now I know what FRED means, but what is HEX?



I don't see any reference to the hex...but maybe to insinuate it is 6x faster that non FRED diodes?


----------



## 2359glenn

SonicTrance said:


> You only use a bridge if the PT is not center tapped. If there’s a center tap you use normal full wave rectification, two diodes.



Nice amp you have there


----------



## 2359glenn

Latest build with XLR input and preamp output.
Thought I was running out of room using Amphenol XLR jacks.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Latest build with XLR input and preamp output.
> Thought I was running out of room using Amphenol XLR jacks.



Where's the 300B socket?


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:


> Where's the 300B socket?



Not everybody can afford the 300B socket.
Maybe better when WE starts selling 300Bs again and they are going to cost allot less then the TAK's


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Not everybody can afford the 300B socket.
> Maybe better when WE starts selling 300Bs again and they are going to cost allot less then the TAK's



I was joking. So many sockets and not a 4 pin to be seen.

Not all 300Bs are insane - EML makes some very nice ones for moderately sane $$$.


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> Latest build with XLR input and preamp output.
> Thought I was running out of room using Amphenol XLR jacks]



Looks really nice in black


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Infinity said:


> Looks really nice in black



The front is silver


----------



## UntilThen

Looks grovey. There is no preamp tube output socket?

I like the xlr input and preamp out. Would have suit my Yggy and Rggy to a T.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Latest build with XLR input and preamp output.
> Thought I was running out of room using Amphenol XLR jacks.



A work of art, Glenn!  Beautiful...!


----------



## Sound Trooper

Sexy amp nonetheless..


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Looks grovey. There is no preamp tube output socket?
> 
> I like the xlr input and preamp out. Would have suit my Yggy and Rggy to a T.


Hi UT,

It appears to me that the preamp socket for 6SN7 or 6BL7 is on the left front in this picture:


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> It appears to me that the preamp socket for 6SN7 or 6BL7 is on the left front in this picture:



I am not a big fan of classical music, but I have been following the musical advancement of a little girl (now 12 years old) that is possibly the greatest classical musical genius of this generation - Alma Deutcher.
She plays virtuoso violin and piano and composes classical compositions. Here is a performance from the past summer that is so beautiful that it is almost otherworldly......


----------



## JazzVinyl (Feb 5, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> It appears to me that the preamp socket for 6SN7 or 6BL7 is on the left front in this picture:



That one is likely for the rectifier tube...


----------



## Hansotek

JazzVinyl said:


> That one is likely for the rectifier tube...



Agreed, given its proximity to the transformer and caps.


----------



## SonicTrance

2359glenn said:


> Nice amp you have there


Thanks! It also sounds good


----------



## yates7592 (Feb 5, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Latest build with XLR input and preamp output.
> Thought I was running out of room using Amphenol XLR jacks.



Beautiful! I got very excited and thought that was mine at first, but I was expecting a preamp tube socket? Actually I think (hope) that is mine. It looks absolutely incredible.


----------



## 2359glenn

yates7592 said:


> Beautiful! I got very excited and thought that was mine at first, but I was expecting a preamp tube socket? Actually I think (hope) that is mine. It looks absolutely incredible.



It is yours no preamp tube socket ran out of room uses the existing tubs just have to find quiet ones.
And they are good sounding tubes in there.


----------



## yates7592

2359glenn said:


> It is yours no preamp tube socket ran out of room uses the existing tubs just have to find quiet ones.
> And they are good sounding tubes in there.



Brilliant, really looking forward to this beauty! So, the preamp power tubes are just using the existing power tubes. Noise aside, are there any do's and dont's, e.g. 6 x 6BL7 or 6BX7 will still be ok?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Latest build with XLR input and preamp output.
> Thought I was running out of room using Amphenol XLR jacks.




Very nice, definitely a chassis full.
You will soon have to go to the bigger chassis for your OTL amps


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Very nice, definitely a chassis full.
> You will soon have to go to the bigger chassis for your OTL amps



If  the chassis was larger I would  have had a cathode follower driving the preamp output


----------



## 2359glenn

yates7592 said:


> Brilliant, really looking forward to this beauty! So, the preamp power tubes are just using the existing power tubes. Noise aside, are there any do's and dont's, e.g. 6 x 6BL7 or 6BX7 will still be ok?



Any of these tubes will work fine just have to find quiet ones.
If only using as a preamp two 6BX7/6Bl7s will be fine driving the preamp output.
My preamp has 6BL7 on the output driven by a #26 tube and is completely quiet.


----------



## UntilThen

Quiet tubes are important for me. Fortunately there are many driver and power tube combinations that are quiet with my mostly NOS collection.

When I first had the GOTL, I was naturally drawn to 6 x 6BX7 as power tubes. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6bx7 is a quiet combination for me and one of my favourite but I'm starting to appreciate other simpler setups. I'm now running a single Brimar 13D1 with a pair of GEC 6080. Super quiet and great tone. So good I forget about the tubes and just get on with listening to music.


----------



## Hansotek

Grabbed this sweet looking solid state rectifier with a decorative tube-shaped top for like $15 the other day on eBay. Listening right now with the Acoustic Research AR-H1, a pair of 6336 power tubes and a Sylvania 6SN7, and it sounds awesome. Tight and punchy sound. I like the speed, but I do like the sound of my tube rectifiers too. Anyway, good option to have when the mood strikes, since one can easily get a plug-in solid state rectifier for $10-$15.


----------



## Hansotek

Here’s a close up, if anyone is interested:


----------



## whirlwind

I like it, it looks cool with the tube top.


----------



## gibosi

Hansotek said:


> Grabbed this sweet looking solid state rectifier with a decorative tube-shaped top for like $15 the other day on eBay. Listening right now with the Acoustic Research AR-H1, a pair of 6336 power tubes and a Sylvania 6SN7, and it sounds awesome. Tight and punchy sound. I like the speed, but I do like the sound of my tube rectifiers too. Anyway, good option to have when the mood strikes, since one can easily get a plug-in solid state rectifier for $10-$15.



It certainly looks cool... But I wonder, is it advertised as a HEXFRED?


----------



## Hansotek

gibosi said:


> It certainly looks cool... But I wonder, is it advertised as a HEXFRED?



It was not - I didn’t buy it new, so I can’t really tell you that much about the build. I was too curious to pass it up though!


----------



## mordy (Feb 6, 2018)

While waiting in the queue for a Glenn amp I decided to shop for the 5A Cetron 6336B graphite tubes that some people seem to like a lot.
My present FA Elise amp can only accept 6.8A of firepower.



Did I say firepower? These could double as heaters on a cold winter night lol....

However, the tubes have arrived and I have to test them. Now.
What to do?
Dug up my Glenn inspired 6 octal tube adapter, a 15A/12V computer power supply  and a 15A voltage regulator from my early Elise days.
Connected everything, and it works! And even though the PS and voltage regulator are cheap stuff, there is no noise or hum even at full volume.



The amp is downright cold with only a load of 1.2A, but the heat sinks on the voltage regulator gets hot. After the big tubes warmed up I only needed 10 o'clock volume (my usual) for good volume. Although I did not try to match the Cetrons with synergistic drivers yet (now using side getter Foton 6H8C from the 60's), the great and detailed bass is readily evident.
Just imagine being able to use these American Muscle tubes without all the makeshift stuff in a proper Glenn amp!


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> While waiting in the queue for a Glenn amp I decided to shop for the 5A Cetron 6336B graphite tubes that some people seem to like a lot.
> My present FA Elise amp can only accept 6.8A of firepower.
> 
> Did I say firepower? These could double as heaters on a cold winter night lol....
> ...



Congrats on finding those beauties. 
Yes, those are Cetron''s tall bottle quarter pounders. 
They are hot performers indeed, both temperature and SQ.
And really nice light show also.

Admire your determination in bringing those suckers to life!


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> While waiting in the queue for a Glenn amp I decided to shop for the 5A Cetron 6336B graphite tubes that some people seem to like a lot.
> My present FA Elise amp can only accept 6.8A of firepower.
> 
> Did I say firepower? These could double as heaters on a cold winter night lol....
> ...




Nice tubes  

Nice to use socket savers with these tubes, takes away some of the heat  from the chassis
These will keep you warm on a cold winters night.


----------



## rnros (Feb 6, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> Nice tubes
> 
> Nice to use socket savers with these tubes, takes away some of the heat  from the chassis
> These will keep you warm on a cold winters night.



The Lundahl/10 socket GOTL remains relatively cool regardless of the power tubes used. 

Worst case scenario is with four 6080WC, top plate between the tubes only goes to about 100 degrees F. Same or a few degrees less with two 6336B. The bases of these tubes are no where near as hot as the top third of the glass bulb.

Makes sense since four 6080/6AS7 at 2.5A is the same heater output as two 6336 at 5A, and very close to six 6BX7 at 1.5A.


----------



## rnros

Mullard ECC31 in house. Waiting on the adapter. 
Looking forward to hearing this one.


----------



## Hansotek

rnros said:


> Mullard ECC31 in house. Waiting on the adapter.
> Looking forward to hearing this one.



Such a great tube. Enjoy!


----------



## yates7592

I stumbled across this, what do you think?
http://www.schiit.com/products/lisst-tubes


----------



## gibosi

yates7592 said:


> I stumbled across this, what do you think?
> http://www.schiit.com/products/lisst-tubes



I'm waiting for you to try them and tell us what you think.


----------



## rnros

yates7592 said:


> I stumbled across this, what do you think?
> http://www.schiit.com/products/lisst-tubes



Never had any interest in trying them, but more importantly, I haven't seen many positive reviews for them.


----------



## JazzVinyl

yates7592 said:


> I stumbled across this, what do you think?
> http://www.schiit.com/products/lisst-tubes



The anti-tubes  

Replace the one way valve function a vacuum tube...with soul-less one way valve of transistors...


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> The anti-tubes
> 
> Replace the one way valve function a vacuum tube...with soul-less one way valve of transistors...
> 
> ...


----------



## yates7592

Good. I really didn't need yet another option for tube rolling. The sooner my OTL lands the better and stop me optioneering.


----------



## JazzVinyl

yates7592 said:


> Good. I really didn't need yet another option for tube rolling. The sooner my OTL lands the better and stop me optioneering.



We will all be sending you cases of Ramen Noodles after the GOTL gets there...it's gonna be:   Goodbye Moo-Lah!


----------



## mordy

While tube rolling I accidentally broke off a guide pin - has anybody tried crazy glue to glue it back?


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> While waiting in the queue for a Glenn amp I decided to shop for the 5A Cetron 6336B graphite tubes that some people seem to like a lot.
> My present FA Elise amp can only accept 6.8A of firepower.
> 
> Did I say firepower? These could double as heaters on a cold winter night lol....
> ...





mordy said:


> While tube rolling I accidentally broke off a guide pin - has anybody tried crazy glue to glue it back?





mordy said:


> While tube rolling I accidentally broke off a guide pin - has anybody tried crazy glue to glue it back?


https://www.ebay.ca/itm/8-Octal-Vac...023401?hash=item1c9de39a69:g:jXsAAOSwTZ1XmMfR


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> While tube rolling I accidentally broke off a guide pin - has anybody tried crazy glue to glue it back?



Use this they work great.
https://www.tubedepot.com/products/octal-tube-keyway-replacement


----------



## mordy

MIKELAP said:


> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/8-Octal-Vac...023401?hash=item1c9de39a69:g:jXsAAOSwTZ1XmMfR


Thanks Mikelap,

In the past I would just put on a little arrow of red tape to indicate the location of the groove on the guide pin - cost $0.....
You can always identify the spot of the guide pin groove on the base, even with a missing guide pin.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I'm hugging my piggy bank for dear life and you're trying to break it.
> 
> Wait I'm bidding on a *NOS Tung Sol 6sn7gt black glass round plate.* If I don't get that, I'll turn my attention on a ECC33 or 35.



You need this. One of the best/ The best US made 6SN7GT tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> You need this. One of the best/ The best US made 6SN7GT tubes.



Hehehe I don't need this as I already have a pair of TS 6F8G. They sound the same right?

I have a question. Can I use the ECC33 in the GOTL SN7 socket directly? Or do I need an adapter?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Hehehe I don't need this as I already have a pair of TS 6F8G. They sound the same right?
> 
> I have a question. Can I use the ECC33 in the GOTL SN7 socket directly? Or do I need an adapter?



No adaptr needed just plug it in with the ECC33


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Hehehe I don't need this as I already have a pair of TS 6F8G. They sound the same right?
> 
> I have a question. Can I use the ECC33 in the GOTL SN7 socket directly? Or do I need an adapter?


True. I use directly. But I have any one ECC33. LOL


----------



## JazzVinyl

Makes sense...the ECC31 adaptirs say:
ECC31->ECC33


----------



## attmci

JazzVinyl said:


> Makes sense...the ECC31 adaptirs say:
> ECC31->ECC33


ECC31 is a 6N7(G/GT).


----------



## UntilThen

A weekend of music with Glenn Super 9 OTL amp and Woo Audio WA5-LE. The latter came with Mullard 6SN7gty CV1988 black glass brown base, Takatsuki TA-300B and Emission Labs 5U4GM (Hand made in Czech Republic). Glenn OTL amp has Sylvania 6SN7W metal base and 6 GE 6BX7gt.

WA5-LE is on loan from my friend who have also handed me his best tubes. What a nice chappie. 

Impressions to follow in a week's time but right off the bat. it's a monumental blast from both tube amps.


----------



## attmci (Feb 10, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> A weekend of music with Glenn Super 9 OTL amp and Woo Audio WA5-LE. The latter came with Mullard 6SN7gty CV1988 black glass brown base, Takatsuki TA-300B and Emission Labs 5U4GM (Hand made in Czech Republic). Glenn OTL amp has Sylvania 6SN7W metal base and 6 GE 6BX7gt.
> 
> WA5-LE is on loan from my friend who have also handed me his best tubes. What a nice chappie.
> 
> Impressions to follow in a week's time but right off the bat. it's a monumental blast from both tube amps.


Glenn is the winner. Just compared the tubes used in GAmp to those in the WE5LE.


----------



## 2359glenn (Feb 10, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> A weekend of music with Glenn Super 9 OTL amp and Woo Audio WA5-LE. The latter came with Mullard 6SN7gty CV1988 black glass brown base, Takatsuki TA-300B and Emission Labs 5U4GM (Hand made in Czech Republic). Glenn OTL amp has Sylvania 6SN7W metal base and 6 GE 6BX7gt.
> 
> WA5-LE is on loan from my friend who have also handed me his best tubes. What a nice chappie.
> 
> Impressions to follow in a week's time but right off the bat. it's a monumental blast from both tube amps.



Not really a fair competition look at the price difference. Hell the 300Bs cost more then the OTL and all the tubes in it.
A better competition would be my 300B against the WA-5.


----------



## lukeap69

Well I hope the OTL won't smoke the WA-5.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 10, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Not really a fair competition look at the price difference. Hell the 300Bs cost more then the OTL.
> A better competition would be my 300B against the WA-5.



Yeah, the 300B tubes cost more than your amp!
   vs    


Great looking table of gear though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


>



Quite an impressive array of gear!!!  Looking forward to the impressions.


----------



## myphone

UntilThen said:


> A weekend of music with Glenn Super 9 OTL amp and Woo Audio WA5-LE. The latter came with Mullard 6SN7gty CV1988 black glass brown base, Takatsuki TA-300B and Emission Labs 5U4GM (Hand made in Czech Republic). Glenn OTL amp has Sylvania 6SN7W metal base and 6 GE 6BX7gt.
> 
> WA5-LE is on loan from my friend who have also handed me his best tubes. What a nice chappie.
> 
> Impressions to follow in a week's time but right off the bat. it's a monumental blast from both tube amps.



Nice set up, UT. Looking forward to your impression.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> A weekend of music with Glenn Super 9 OTL amp and Woo Audio WA5-LE. The latter came with Mullard 6SN7gty CV1988 black glass brown base, Takatsuki TA-300B and Emission Labs 5U4GM (Hand made in Czech Republic). Glenn OTL amp has Sylvania 6SN7W metal base and 6 GE 6BX7gt.
> 
> WA5-LE is on loan from my friend who have also handed me his best tubes. What a nice chappie.
> 
> Impressions to follow in a week's time but right off the bat. it's a monumental blast from both tube amps.



Looking forward to your impressions. 
True, not a fair match for a number of reasons, including OTL vs OTC.
But no doubt your notes will cover all the finer points... of course, with multiple tube combinations in GS9OTL.
We would expect no less from you, UT!


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> A weekend of music with Glenn Super 9 OTL amp and Woo Audio WA5-LE. The latter came with *Mullard 6SN7gty CV1988 black glass brown base*, Takatsuki TA-300B and Emission Labs 5U4GM (Hand made in Czech Republic). Glenn OTL amp has Sylvania 6SN7W metal base and 6 GE 6BX7gt.



Just to be clear, Mullard never manufactured a 6SN7. Mullard sourced their 6SN7GTY from Brimar.


----------



## UntilThen

Well I went to bed totally beat. My ears have been blasted with the most gorgeous tones I've ever heard and on songs that I love and familiar with. Then I woke up and laugh heartily at all the comments. You guys are the best. 

True it's not a fair comparison because of the price difference but since my friend so Kindly let me have the WA5-LE for 2 weeks, I thought it would be fun to see how they differ in sound. To my utter surprise, there's more similarities than difference in the sound department between these 2 amps. In the first 2 hours, I thought to myself that the songs that I heard from these amps sound very similar. Big, bold and beautiful.... and the gorgeous details My HD800 came alive. Yggy seems at home in this company. To be honest, I'm really proud of the GOTL at this stage. More listening required...... 

My friend told me the Takasuki 300b cost $2400 a pair and the drivers are $300 to 400 a pair - NOS.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Just to be clear, Mullard never manufactured a 6SN7. Mullard sourced their 6SN7GTY from Brimar.



You are right these are no Mullard even though my friend told me so. These very beautiful looking and sounding drivers are Brimars. It's got the numbers 7250 and KBIFE etched on the glass.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> ... My friend told me the Takasuki 300b cost $2400 a pair and the drivers are $300 to 400 a pair - NOS.



Until recently the TA300B were readily available for around $1,200 USD per pair (that's what I paid in late 2016). For some reason the prices have escalated rapidly in the past few months - Woo Audio are selling TA300B for $1,900 USD per pair right now. If you can get them direct from Japan the pricing would probably be significantly better.

I was running my WA5 with TA300B + TA274B + TSRP/NU drivers. About as good as glass gets. It was euphonic and musical - vocals in particular were lovely. As good as it was, I would take my Glenn 300B amp over it any day of the week. Sold the WA5, kept the Glenn. Never heard the OTL amp, so have no idea how that compares to the WA5.


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> vocals in particular were lovely.



My thoughts exactly. Vocals are stunning on both amps and the guitar magic of Mark Knopfler. 

The price I state are in Aussie dollars so that's about right with those prices you state.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> ...Then I woke up and laugh heartily at all the comments. You guys are the best.
> 
> *Of course we are, if you don't believe me then just ask us! *
> 
> My friend told me the Takasuki 300b cost $2400 a pair and the drivers are $300 to 400 a pair - NOS.



_The tube cost you listed is right at my entire price point for my GEL3N, oh to be fair, you need to throw in $80.00 USD for 4 NOS EL3Ns and $10.00 USD for a NOS 5CU4 or 3DG4 rect. 

Does the WA5 have the parts upgrade pkg. or is it the stock version?_


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> My thoughts exactly. Vocals are stunning on both amps and the guitar magic of Mark Knopfler.
> 
> The price I state are in Aussie dollars so that's about right with those prices you state.


Ok, so if you add in the price for the rectifiers maybe my statement is still true!


----------



## TonyNewman

Apologies - I didn't realise you were quoting AUD. 

To expand a bit more - I found the WA5 a one trick pony compared to the Glenn 300B. It did female vocal-centric music exceptionally well, but in every other way the Glenn amp was better. In some areas very significantly better. Not to mention, much better value. Those TA274Bs make the TA300Bs look cheap.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Ok, so if you add in the price for the rectifiers maybe my statement is still true!



I have no idea how much these hand made Emission Labs 5U4G rectifiers cost but if I have to configure the GOTL again, it would still be with HEXFRED.


----------



## ru4music

TonyNewman said:


> Apologies - I didn't realise you were quoting AUD.
> 
> To expand a bit more - I found the WA5 a one trick pony compared to the Glenn 300B. It did female vocal-centric music exceptionally well, but in every other way the Glenn amp was better. In some areas very significantly better. Not to mention, much better value. Those TA274Bs make the TA300Bs look cheap.



And I believe you need two rectifiers for the WA5 and one for the typical G300B build, correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> Those TA274Bs make the TA300Bs look cheap.



Damm those TA274Bs cost AUD$1160 each at A2A.


----------



## ru4music

UntilThen said:


> I have no idea how much these hand made Emission Labs 5U4G rectifiers cost but if I have to configure the GOTL again, it would still be with HEXFRED.



Just under $300 USD ea.


----------



## TonyNewman

ru4music said:


> And I believe you need two rectifiers for the WA5 and one for the typical G300B build, correct me if I'm wrong.



2xrectifiers. One per channel - Glenn or WA5.

Glenn was using PY500s for the 300B amp (that's what mine used before I converted to hexfred).


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> Apologies - I didn't realise you were quoting AUD.
> 
> To expand a bit more - I found the WA5 a one trick pony compared to the Glenn 300B. It did female vocal-centric music exceptionally well, but in every other way the Glenn amp was better. In some areas very significantly better. Not to mention, much better value. Those TA274Bs make the TA300Bs look cheap.



I suggest you make a trip to Sydney with your Glenn 300b amp so I can hear it in comparison with these 2 amps.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> I suggest you make a trip to Sydney with your Glenn 300b amp so I can hear it in comparison with these 2 amps.



It's 24kg 'dry'. Beast of a thing. If I ever have to ship it again (when I return to Oz someday) I will get a packing create built to ship it in.

I used to have an 845 based power amp. That thing was 42kg 'dry'. Lifting that around was not much fun for my middle aged spine.

Something I have said before and want to say again in case potential 300B amp buyers are put off by the cost of the TOTL 300B tubes - there are some very, very fine 300Bs out there that cost a fraction of the top end tubes and deliver 80% to 90% of the magic. The EML plate and mesh tubes are damn fine in their own right. I have no problem using them from time to time. Ditto the EAT 300Bs I have. You don't have to have Taks or vintage WE300Bs to get stunning performance from this amp.

The Taks are better - absolutely - but that is very much the extreme pointy end of diminishing returns. If my Taks were taken away tomorrow and all I had was the EML tubes I would still enjoy the amp and be a happy camper.


----------



## 2359glenn (Feb 10, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I suggest you make a trip to Sydney with your Glenn 300b amp so I can hear it in comparison with these 2 amps.



Matt I could build you a nice 300B amp!   It's 1/2 the price of the WA5 and sounds better
I use HEXFRED rectifiers now with a Amperite time delay tube to delay the B+ voltage in the 300B amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:


> It's 24kg 'dry'. Beast of a thing. If I ever have to ship it again (when I return to Oz someday) I will get a packing create built to ship it in.
> 
> I used to have an 845 based power amp. That thing was 42kg 'dry'. Lifting that around was not much fun for my middle aged spine.
> 
> ...



WE is going back into production in the US and they are 1/2 the price of the TAKs.
Pan on buying a pair this summer when they start selling them.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> ...I use HEXFRED rectifiers now with a Amperite time delay tube to delay the B+ voltage in the 300B amp.



Nice! A much better solution than my custom modification that adds a resistor switch for start up on the front panel.

Powering up without the resistor engaged is BAD. Only done it the once - but that was with the Elrog's installed - perhaps the most fragile 300Bs I own. Have a slight hum on one of those tubes ever since, so I did some damage.


----------



## UntilThen

Tony, I had the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP tube amp for a few months and that weigh 31kgs and that is heavy !!! Sold it because I got a better deal with the Redgum.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> WE is going back into production in the US and they are 1/2 the price of the TAKs.
> Pan on buying a pair this summer when they start selling them.



Ditto. However, I still expect the Taks to reign supreme (based on a colleagues comparison of vintage WE300Bs from the 50s and Westrex 300B vs 'old production' TA300B).

The WE300B wins the mid range magic - slightly - vs Takatsuki, but the Taks extend in both directions significantly better than the best of the WE300Bs.


----------



## ru4music

TonyNewman said:


> 2xrectifiers. One per channel - Glenn or WA5.
> 
> Glenn was using PY500s for the 300B amp (that's what mine used before I converted to hexfred).


Well, we're both correct!  The PY500 tube is a half wave rect. so you need two for full wave rectification.  Two PY500 tubes equals one 5U4G tube (I'm assuming Glenn used two half wave rect. tubes with a center tapped power transformer.)


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Matt I could build you a nice 300B amp!
> I use HEXFRED rectifiers now with a Amperite time delay tube to delay the B+ voltage in the 300B amp.



Damm you almost make me choke on my breakfast. 

All in good time. My OTL amp is only 2 months old.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> Damm you almost make me choke on my breakfast.
> 
> All in good time. My OTL amp is only 2 months old.



Do it. You know you need some 300B love in your life


----------



## ru4music

Speaking of rectifier tubes - BTW everyone I have been using my 5CU4 rect. tube ($10 USD) recently in my GEL3N amp with exceptional results.  Some of us have to keep the Universe in balance by offsetting the cost of those high price tubes!


----------



## TonyNewman

ru4music said:


> Speaking of rectifier tubes - BTW everyone I have been using my 5CU4 rect. tube ($10 USD) recently in my GEL3N amp with exceptional results.  Some of us have to keep the Universe in balance by offsetting the cost of those high price tubes!


https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/5z4gycv1863-kbfe-stc-brimar-nos-boxed/
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/5z4gycv1863-kbfe-stc-brimar-nos-boxed/

I have a ton of these from Langrex - a very, very good NOS rectifier for not much $$$. As good as any new production rectifier I have heard (except for the TA274B) for a lot less cash.


----------



## ru4music

TonyNewman said:


> https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/5z4gycv1863-kbfe-stc-brimar-nos-boxed/
> 
> I have a ton of these from Langrex - a very, very good NOS rectifier for not much $$$. As good as any new production rectifier I have heard (except for the TA274B) for a lot less cash.


Yes, I believe I already have their ebay page bookmarked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5Z4GY-CV18...3909306?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368#shpCntId


----------



## ru4music

The 5CU4 is another "Glenn special" rect, tube that takes 3.5 amps for the heater (most systems can't provide this current.)  It has extremely high perveance which means it drops less voltage across the tube, only ~ 5 to 10 VDC drop at 100ma current load (i.e. less sag/sway (swag)) in the power supply.


----------



## Oskari

2359glenn said:


> WE is going back into production in the US and they are 1/2 the price of the TAKs.
> Pan on buying a pair this summer when they start selling them.


I'm afraid that remains to be seen. I think the reissues were roughly $1k a pair almost 20 years ago.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> You are right these are no Mullard even though my friend told me so. These very beautiful looking and sounding drivers are Brimars. It's got the numbers 7250 and KBIFE etched on the glass.




This doesn't really matter, but, strictly speaking, that's not even Brimar.

FE = STC, Oldway. 72 = year, 50 = week.



Oskari said:


> One could regard Brimar as STC's tube division for the consumer market, although Brimar made receiving tubes for other markets, including lots of CV types. STC itself made the big stuff, but also some receiving tubes. STC sold Brimar to Thorn in 1960. In 1961 Thorn merged their tube interests, including CRTs, with those of AEI forming Thorn-AEI.
> 
> Brimar's home location was the STC site in Footscray. Under Thorn-AEI the site in Rochester became Brimar's main site while Footscray remained an STC site. The STC Paignton sites ("Paignton" and "Oldway" tube manufacturing sites) were unaffected. These were not Brimar locations.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> This doesn't really matter, but, strictly speaking, that's not even Brimar.
> 
> FE = STC, Oldway. 72 = year, 50 = week.



We really need you and Gibosi knowledge on tubes origin. I'd never have known all this info.


----------



## UntilThen

I think the WA5 need some help. So I use my own pair of Tung Sol 6F8G on it and I like it more. Fully texture. Glenn's OTL is sniping at it's heels. 

The real surprise here is how well Glenn's OTL with Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6bx7gt is holding up. This is like an even contest.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> ....The real surprise here is how well Glenn's OTL with Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6bx7gt is holding up. This is like an even contest.



If you are comfortable doing this with an amp that you don't own, try removing the transformer covers on the WA5 and compare the build quality of those transformers to the Lundahls used in the Glenn amps. Very illuminating, and might reduce your surprise level. Given what Woo charge for the WA5 it really should be using the very best transformers on the market - which would be Lundahls (or similar) - not something that looks like it was wound in your uncle's shed.


----------



## UntilThen

Here's the other contestant with the high end sound without the high end price. GOTL has a place on any reference system, I have no doubt about it. Go and get one. 

Glenn's OTL is more dynamic and forceful. It's more upfront. WA5 is a mite more relaxed and distant but the airs and texture.... I believe this is the 300b magic.


----------



## rnros

TonyNewman said:


> If you are comfortable doing this with an amp that you don't own, try removing the transformer covers on the WA5 and compare the build quality of those transformers to the Lundahls used in the Glenn amps. Very illuminating, and might reduce your surprise level. Given what Woo charge for the WA5 it really should be using the very best transformers on the market - which would be Lundahls (or similar) - not something that looks like it was wound in your uncle's shed.



LOL. Maybe it depends on who your Uncle is?

Jokes aside, point well taken. 
Surprised they don't offer a 'transformer upgrade' since they promote so many $$$ upgrades with tubes.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> ....Glenn's OTL is more dynamic and forceful. It's more upfront. WA5 is a mite more relaxed and distant but the airs and texture.... I believe this is the 300b magic.



Or get the best of both worlds with a Glenn 300B.


----------



## TonyNewman

rnros said:


> LOL. Maybe it depends on who your Uncle is?
> 
> Jokes aside, point well taken.
> Surprised they don't offer a 'transformer upgrade' since they promote so many $$$ upgrades with tubes.



That's my beef with Woo - they charge premium prices, but don't have premium components or build quality. Pretty and shiny on the outside, but lacking on the inside. As a value proposition, let alone SQ, the Glenn 300B kills the WA5 (at least that was my experience). YMMV.


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> Or get the best of both worlds with a Glenn 300B.



I believe you. If these 2 are fused together, it will be explosive. 

If Glenn's 300b amp is several leagues above these amps, then it's truly explosive and end game would be a correct phrase.

As it is, the SQ level of these 2 amps are mercurial. You would be a very fussy listener not to be pleased with them.


----------



## leftside (Feb 10, 2018)

Tak 300B's are on sale at the moment for $1695/pair at Parts Connexion.


----------



## leftside

When I borrowed a WA5 I found it to sound quite different to the Glenn 300B. The WA5 was much closer in sound to the WA22, but simply slightly better at everything. As has been mentioned, the WA5 sounded more luscious and "tubey" than the Glenn 300B, but the Glenn 300B was much more airy, transparent, dynamic, better imaging and sound stage. Has more of the "wow" factor grabbing your attention.


----------



## rnros

TonyNewman said:


> Or get the best of both worlds with a Glenn 300B.



The cost of the 300B tubes is the only thing that stops me. But the temptation is always there. 
As it is, I am in line for the EL3N, a more reasonable opportunity to hear Glenn's take on the OTC amp.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Here's the other contestant with the high end sound without the high end price. GOTL has a place on any reference system, I have no doubt about it. Go and get one.
> 
> Glenn's OTL is more dynamic and forceful. It's more upfront. WA5 is a mite more relaxed and distant but the airs and texture.... I believe this is the 300b magic.




Saving the C3g for the final round?


----------



## TonyNewman

rnros said:


> The cost of the 300B tubes is the only thing that stops me. But the temptation is always there.
> As it is, I am in line for the EL3N, a more reasonable opportunity to hear Glenn's take on the OTC amp.



Check out the EML 300Bs (plate and mesh). These are well made tubes that give most of what the Taks do for a reasonable price (reasonable in the world of 300Bs).

Another possibility is a 300B style amp built for 45s as the output tube. Still plenty of power for almost any headphone and the lovely sound of the 45.

If I did it all over again I think I would go 45 rather than 300B. Maybe.


----------



## rnros

TonyNewman said:


> Check out the EML 300Bs (plate and mesh). These are well made tubes that give most of what the Taks do for a reasonable price (reasonable in the world of 300Bs).
> 
> Another possibility is a 300B style amp built for 45s as the output tube. Still plenty of power for almost any headphone and the lovely sound of the 45.
> 
> If I did it all over again I think I would go 45 rather than 300B. Maybe.



Thanks. I'll look at those possibilities.
Have you heard Glenn's EL3N?


----------



## TonyNewman

rnros said:


> Thanks. I'll look at those possibilities.
> Have you heard Glenn's EL3N?



Unfortunately not. Would like to, but where I live is quite remote (New Zealand). I might have the only Glenn amp in the country - don't know of any others.


----------



## leftside

I'm pretty sure I have the only Glenn amp in Canada? Definitely the only Glenn 300B in Canada.

My friends have just returned from a 6 week trip to New Zealand. They had an excellent time! I'll mountain bike there one day, but this year it will be Ecuador.


----------



## UntilThen

I might have the only Glenn OTL amp in Australia.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Saving the C3g for the final round?



C3g is par excellence in the GOTL. Takes the amp to another level in transparency, dynamics and clarity. 

One word of caution for those about to roll c3g for the first time. Don't rock and roll the tube when removing it from the socket. Just pull it out straight. One of my c3g has a bit of noise because I rock it out the first time.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Feb 10, 2018)

rnros said:


> The cost of the 300B tubes is the only thing that stops me. But the temptation is always there.
> As it is, I am in line for the EL3N, a more reasonable opportunity to hear Glenn's take on the OTC amp.



I think I have heard Glenn say the EL3N is very close in SQ to his 300B amp...so indeed near top shelf for a more reasonable cost.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I might have the only Glenn OTL amp in Australia.



There is one other OTL in Australia.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> C3g is par excellence in the GOTL. Takes the amp to another level in transparency, dynamics and clarity.
> 
> One word of caution for those about to roll c3g for the first time. Don't rock and roll the tube when removing it from the socket. Just pull it out straight. One of my c3g has a bit of noise because I rock it out the first time.



Agree with you on the C3g and the GOTL. Completely.
I have not had any problems with my C3g pairs. I'm always careful, but still, when rolling a lot of tubes, things happen.
Maybe the bit of noise you have will disappear with time. Did have one pair that had a very small amount of noise, 
it did disappear with continued use.


----------



## rnros

JazzVinyl said:


> I think I have heard Glenn say the EL3N is very close in SQ to his 300B amp...so indeed near top shelf for a more reasonable cost.



Heard the same thing! And after four months with the GOTL, Glenn's word is good enough for me. 
This GOTL continues to improve with time, almost disappearing while remaining so transparent to any tube you choose to roll.
Lot's of excitement here, both with enjoying the GOTL now, and knowing I'll hear GEL3N in the future.


----------



## JazzVinyl

rnros said:


> Heard the same thing! And after four months with the GOTL, Glenn's word is good enough for me.
> This GOTL continues to improve with time, almost disappearing while remaining so transparent to any tube you choose to roll.
> Lot's of excitement here, both with enjoying the GOTL now, and knowing I'll hear GEL3N in the future.



Very nice!  Indeed on Glenn's word!

Do you run 6x 6BL7 (or 6BX7's) for your output tubes?

Which driver is your favorite?


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I have no idea how much these hand made Emission Labs 5U4G rectifiers cost but if I have to configure the GOTL again, it would still be with HEXFRED.
> 
> Glenn's OTL is more dynamic and forceful. It's more upfront. WA5 is a mite more relaxed and distant but the airs and texture.... I believe this is the 300b magic.



To my ears, in my OTL, the tonality of the HEXFRED is very similar to the Cossor KU53. Swapping in a GEC U52, same driver and output tubes, the OTL gains a bit more "air and texture".

So I think it would be interesting to be able to compare the WA5 with an OTL configured in this way.


----------



## rnros

JazzVinyl said:


> Very nice!  Indeed on Glenn's word!
> 
> Do you run 6x 6BL7 (or 6BX7's) for your output tubes?
> 
> Which driver is your favorite?



6BX7. To be fair, I haven't spent as much time with the 6BL7. 
But '80s Cetron 6336B is my default output tube.
Big fan of the C3g, you just have to hear this tube in the GOTL.


----------



## ru4music (Feb 11, 2018)

rnros said:


> Thanks. I'll look at those possibilities.
> *Have you heard Glenn's EL3N?*



Yes,  I have heard it, in fact I own it!  At the first 2 months I was very disappointed, for the next 2 months I was underwhelmed... then for the next 2 months plus  (up until now) I'm blown away with the sound.  The GEL3N simply presents the music the way it is (i.e 45, 27, 26, 2a3, 300B tube sound etc.)  Thanks Glenn, it's just what I envisioned; although I had to be patient to break her in!  

Listening to Nancy Wilson (the original jazz singer), simply amazing for all talented artist.  That's what earmarks a good system (of any age), when your genera and music selection has no end!


----------



## rnros

ru4music said:


> Yes,  I have heard it, in fact I own it!  At the first 2 months I was very disappointed, for the next 2 months I was underwhelmed... then for the next 2 months plus  (up until now) I'm blown away with the sound.  The GEL3N simply presents the music the way it is (i.e 45, 27, 26, 2a3, 300B tube sound etc.)  Thanks Glenn, it's just what I envisioned; although I had to be patient to break her in!
> 
> Listening to Nancy Wilson (the original jazz singer), simply amazing for all talented artist.  That's what earmarks a good system (of any age), when your genera and music selection has no end!



Thank you for the detailed comments.


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Yes,  I have heard it, in fact I own it!  At the first 2 months I was very disappointed, for the next 2 months I was underwhelmed... then for the next 2 months plus  (up until now) I'm blown away with the sound.  The GEL3N simply presents the music the way it is (i.e 45, 27, 26, 2a3, 300B tube sound etc.)  Thanks Glenn, it's just what I envisioned; although I had to be patient to break her in!
> 
> Listening to Nancy Wilson (the original jazz singer), simply amazing for all talented artist.  That's what earmarks a good system (of any age), when your genera and music selection has no end!



I was hoping that by the 3rd month you still wouldn't like it. Then you can send it my way for safe keeping. But alas .... you did like it.


----------



## UntilThen

I've move the amps back to the 'studio' because listening in the lounge means watching the Winter Olympics at the same time. Some really good ice skating in action.


----------



## UntilThen

Here it is in ice cool blue. GOTL now sport c3g with 6bx7s and is now a resolution beast. Now time to try the other headphones in the evaluation.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Heard the same thing! And after four months with the GOTL, Glenn's word is good enough for me.
> This GOTL continues to improve with time, almost disappearing while remaining so transparent to any tube you choose to roll.
> Lot's of excitement here, both with enjoying the GOTL now, and knowing I'll hear GEL3N in the future.



Congrats on deciding on a 2nd Glenn's amp - the GEL3N. I think it will be great.

Tired of plugging headphone jacks, I've now assigned HD800 to GOTL and Eikon to WA5. Listening to 'Women in Blue II' album with artists such as Holly Cole, Cassandra Wilson and Patricia Barber. This is cloud 9 experience. Both setups really euphonic but I'm drawn more to GOTL and HD800. Quite a revelation to my ears.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 11, 2018)

ru4music said:


> The 5CU4 is another "Glenn special" rect, tube that takes 3.5 amps for the heater (most systems can't provide this current.)  It has extremely high perveance which means it drops less voltage across the tube, only ~ 5 to 10 VDC drop at 100ma current load (i.e. less sag/sway (swag)) in the power supply.



Yes it is, I am using this rectifier in my amp at the moment.
Listening to Gary Clark Jr. this morning with Atticus   




UntilThen said:


> C3g is par excellence in the GOTL. Takes the amp to another level in transparency, dynamics and clarity.
> 
> One word of caution for those about to roll c3g for the first time. Don't rock and roll the tube when removing it from the socket. Just pull it out straight. One of my c3g has a bit of noise because I rock it out the first time.



Great point Matt, pulling straight up will prolong the life of these tubes, they can be fragile...I know many people who have ruined some of these taking their black jackets off.
They have a nice glow with the jackets removed, but I prefer to leave them on as they were meant.

Transparency is off the hook with these tubes!  Have these in the OTL now combined with some 6080 Mullards.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Yes it is, I am using this rectifier in my amp at the moment.
> Listening to Gary Clark Jr. this morning with Atticus
> 
> 
> ...



The black metal jackets are a shield and is hooked to the center guide pin and grounded in the amp. This helps stops noise and hum pickup.
The only problem with C3g's is some of them are micro phonic that drives me nuts. But it is probably the best sounding tube there is.

Before I built the EL3N was going to build a amp that Just used two C3g tubes no driver supposed to deliver 1.5 watts.  Yamamoto makes a amp like this
that uses a C3m that is really the same tube with a 20 volt filament and different pin configuration. Thought the EL3N would be better when I started
playing with them.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The black metal jackets are a shield and is hooked to the center guide pin and grounded in the amp. This helps stops noise and hum pickup.
> The only problem with C3g's is some of them are micro phonic that drives me nuts. But it is probably the best sounding tube there is.
> 
> Before I built the EL3N was going to build a amp that Just used two C3g tubes no driver supposed to deliver 1.5 watts.  Yamamoto makes a amp like this
> ...




That is why I leave my jackets on mine.
 I have a couple pair of C3g that are micro phonic as well and some EL3N tubes that have weird noises..

The sonics and distortion are great with the EL3N amp....I do find that the time it takes for the EL3N tubes to settle in is quite long, at least in my experience.
I have been listening to both amps since my son has been away house sitting.  I won't lie...it has me spoiled.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> That is why I leave my jackets on mine.
> I have a couple pair of C3g that are micro phonic as well and some EL3N tubes that have weird noises..
> 
> The sonics and distortion are great with the EL3N amp....I do find that the time it takes for the EL3N tubes to settle in is quite long, at least in my experience.
> I have been listening to both amps since my son has been away house sitting.  I won't lie...it has me spoiled.



You will need another OTL that uses six 6BX7s and a C3g


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> You will need another OTL that uses six 6BX7s and a C3g





2359glenn said:


> You will need another OTL that uses six 6BX7s and a C3g



Probably right, I will have all of these tubs of tubes ...but minus an amp, lol


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Probably right, I will have all of these tubs of tubes ...but minus an amp, lol


I agree with Glenn Joe. Perhaps you can one up the latest incarnation of Glenn's OTL. Is it Super 11 now?


----------



## Monsterzero

lukeap69 said:


> I agree with Glenn Joe. Perhaps you can one up the latest incarnation of Glenn's OTL. Is it Super 11 now?



that would be Monster Eleven Glenn Amp=M.E.G.A.


----------



## lukeap69

monsterzero said:


> that would be Monster Eleven Glenn Amp=M.E.G.A.


Nice one!


----------



## raybone0566

Bit of patience is needed with the el3n tubes but the rewards are well worth it. Amp is dead silent in in two tube mode, but still a bit noisy in dual tube. Running senns though two tube is all you’d need. Just a wonderful sounding amp. So much that I’ve have only listened to my AF Affcinado once since it arrived


----------



## 2359glenn

raybone0566 said:


> Bit of patience is needed with the el3n tubes but the rewards are well worth it. Amp is dead silent in in two tube mode, but still a bit noisy in dual tube. Running senns though two tube is all you’d need. Just a wonderful sounding amp. So much that I’ve have only listened to my AF Affcinado once since it arrived



What rectifier are you using?


----------



## raybone0566

2359glenn said:


> What rectifier are you using?


GZ32


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You will need another OTL that uses six 6BX7s and a C3g



Absolutely. I'm listening to this tube combination now. There's something about the tone that I prefer over the WA5 sitting next to it.

I love the Glenn OTL.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The only problem with C3g's is some of them are micro phonic that drives me nuts. But it is probably the best sounding tube there is.



I have 2 pairs of c3g. A pair of Telefunken c3g/s and a pair of Siemens c3g. I know that it's been pointed out to me that they are both Siemens but the fact is one pair is with the 's' suffix.

As luck would have it, one of the Telefunken and one of the Siemens tube have hum. So I'm left with one good Telefunken and one good Siemens and I'm running them together now for a noise free and hum free c3g magic.

c3g and 6 x 6BX7 on the GOTL sounds amazing. This particular pairing is dead quiet and a joy to listen.


----------



## UntilThen

monsterzero said:


> that would be Monster Eleven Glenn Amp=M.E.G.A.



You will find that in your MEGA (although I don't know how it's possible to fit 11 sockets on that chassis), c3g and 6 x 6BL7 is your ticket to ride with your Atticus. It wouldn't be too warm and lush as per your previous amp and tube combination.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I have been listening to both amps since my son has been away house sitting. I won't lie...it has me spoiled.



Joe, I am way spoiled now listening to both GOTL and WA5. Using LCD-2f now.


----------



## UntilThen

raybone0566 said:


> Bit of patience is needed with the el3n tubes but the rewards are well worth it. Amp is dead silent in in two tube mode, but still a bit noisy in dual tube. Running senns though two tube is all you’d need. Just a wonderful sounding amp. So much that I’ve have only listened to my AF Affcinado once since it arrived



Thanks for sharing. I really wonder how the GEL3N would sound compared to Glenn's 300b amp.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> I agree with Glenn Joe. Perhaps you can one up the latest incarnation of Glenn's OTL. Is it Super 11 now?



Hi Arnold, if i get another it will be like the amp I have now, but with the extra power output sockets, or another way of putting it...like your amp but with the 6/12/25 SN7 option.







UntilThen said:


> Joe, I am way spoiled now listening to both GOTL and WA5. Using LCD-2f now.



You are even more spoiled than me, lol.






raybone0566 said:


> Bit of patience is needed with the el3n tubes but the rewards are well worth it. Amp is dead silent in in two tube mode, but still a bit noisy in dual tube. Running senns though two tube is all you’d need. Just a wonderful sounding amp. So much that I’ve have only listened to my AF Affcinado once since it arrived



Congrats on your new amp I am sure that HD650 has a lot of authority now.  
The longer the amp is on, the more the EL3N tubes will settle in.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Hi Arnold, if i get another it will be like the amp I have now, but with the extra power output sockets, or another way of putting it...like your amp but with the 6/12/25 SN7 option.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That would be one hell of an amp Joe. Don't you like to have XLR input so you can use the XLR out of your Spring DAC?


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> That would be one hell of an amp Joe. Don't you like to have XLR input so you can use the XLR out of your Spring DAC?





Glenn's amp is not a balanced topology.

So I do not think I would get any benefit from that, unless I am missing something here.

Please explain


----------



## yates7592

whirlwind said:


> Glenn's amp is not a balanced topology.
> 
> So I do not think I would get any benefit from that, unless I am missing something here.
> 
> Please explain



Agree with your thinking. I only asked Glenn for XLR input and output because I already have XLR cables that I am very fond of, and also I prefer XLR connectors to RCA. But yes, other than that there's no point with this amp.


----------



## rnros

raybone0566 said:


> Bit of patience is needed with the el3n tubes but the rewards are well worth it. Amp is dead silent in in two tube mode, but still a bit noisy in dual tube. Running senns though two tube is all you’d need. Just a wonderful sounding amp. So much that I’ve have only listened to my AF Affcinado once since it arrived


Hi raybone,
Good to read your impressions. Can I ask how long you have had the GEL3N?
Looks beautiful also. 
Thanks.


----------



## rnros (Feb 12, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I have 2 pairs of c3g. A pair of Telefunken c3g/s and a pair of Siemens c3g. I know that it's been pointed out to me that they are both Siemens but the fact is one pair is with the 's' suffix.
> 
> As luck would have it, one of the Telefunken and one of the Siemens tube have hum. So I'm left with one good Telefunken and one good Siemens and I'm running them together now for a noise free and hum free c3g magic.
> 
> c3g and 6 x 6BX7 on the GOTL sounds amazing. This particular pairing is dead quiet and a joy to listen.



That is an outstanding combination. Full agreement on that!
Ugh, bad luck with the C3g pairs. Recently bought a Siemens pair from Jac Music, these were also quiet. Prices are comparative with other sellers for the Siemens. Jac will also match them for a few Euros per tube.

And thanks for posting all the listening and comparison notes!


----------



## raybone0566

rnros said:


> Hi raybone,
> Good to read your impressions. Can I ask how long you have had the GEL3N?
> Looks beautiful also.
> Thanks.


About 6 weeks


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Glenn's amp is not a balanced topology.
> 
> So I do not think I would get any benefit from that, unless I am missing something here.
> 
> Please explain



I thought it would look cool.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> I thought it would look cool.



Ha...you had me stumped!

Regular RCA jacks is fine by me.


----------



## UntilThen

Just bought another NOS pair of Siemens c3g because I'm so impressed with c3g and 6 x 6BX7gt.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn, I meant to ask you this for sometime but I kept forgetting to do so. 

Are the c3g set up as strapped triodes or pentodes in the GOTL?


----------



## yates7592 (Feb 13, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> c3g and 6 x 6BX7 on the GOTL sounds amazing. This particular pairing is dead quiet and a joy to listen.



When I receive my GOTL:  Hexfred -> 2 x c3g -> 6 x 6BX7 will be my starting combo with HD800. Once I'm very familiar with that sound, then the rolling shall start! At least I only have HD800 so no cans to roll as well


----------



## JazzVinyl

yates7592 said:


> When I receive my GOTL:  Hexfred -> 2 x c3g -> 6 x 6BX7 will be my starting combo with HD800. Once I'm very familiar with that sound, then the rolling shall start! At least I only have HD800 so no cans to roll as well



The anticipation of your amps arrival, must be unbearable, Yates!


----------



## yates7592

JazzVinyl said:


> The anticipation of your amps arrival, must be unbearable, Yates!



Sure is! But I'm very confident it will be worth the wait. HD800 burn-in, tubes ready.......


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Glenn, I meant to ask you this for sometime but I kept forgetting to do so.
> 
> Are the c3g set up as strapped triodes or pentodes in the GOTL?



To my knowledge, Glenn straps C3gs as triodes in all his amps.

A little further afield.... I have recently acquired three early Westinghouse 227s. As best as I can tell, this one was manufactured for Cunningham sometime between April, 1928, and December, 1928. I guess one could say that it is 90 years old...

Beginning in 1929, Westinghouse replaced the top glass press with a mica spacer in order to keep the electrodes properly aligned and supported. I don't know that mica spacers were better for these purposes, but suspect that they were cheaper and less labor intensive.

So now I need to clean the pins and plug them in! 




Oh, while not identical, I am somewhat amused to notice that the getter holder resembles the "flying saucers" found in later Russian tubes.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Getting some listening time in before I go to work. Just wanted to share the moment with you guys. 



 
It was a little too dark for my phones camera so I put a filter on it to warm it up. 

My cat Poe is a big fan of Glenn’s work as well! Ha


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> To my knowledge, Glenn straps C3gs as triodes in all his amps.
> 
> A little further afield.... I have recently acquired three early Westinghouse 227s. As best as I can tell, this one was manufactured for Cunningham sometime between April, 1928, and December, 1928. I guess one could say that it is 90 years old...
> 
> ...


I think I read somewhere that the Svetlana tubes were originally based on RCA tubes before WWII.
"In 1937, the Soviet Union purchased a tube assembly line from RCA, including production licenses and initial staff training, and installed it on the St Petersburg plant."


----------



## JazzVinyl

[QUOTE="bunnynamedfrank, post: 14040680, member: 401250"
My cat Poe is a big fan of Glenn’s work as well! Ha[/QUOTE]

Here's the question...

Which HP's does Poe prefer...?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

JazzVinyl said:


> [QUOTE="bunnynamedfrank, post: 14040680, member: 401250"
> My cat Poe is a big fan of Glenn’s work as well! Ha



Here's the question...

Which HP's does Poe prefer...?

[/QUOTE]
She’s big fan of the HD600. Likes how light they are and GREAT synergy with the GOTL. 

Now- I am a fan as well but the HD800 so far has taken the cake for me.... I’m having a hard time not getting one after I took one home to demo on it.


----------



## lukeap69

The HD800 were made for Glenn's OTL amp.


----------



## Redmetal1897

Has anyone had experience listening to Lundahl vs. non lundahl on the OTL? Is the difference in noise floor significant? I am not really a critical listener, most of my listening is done while reading/studying, so I want my music to sound as good as possible but maybe I care a little less about that last 3-5%.


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> Sure is! But I'm very confident it will be worth the wait. HD800 burn-in, tubes ready.......



You have a Denafrips Terminator ready too.

My wait wasn't that long but even then the last week seems like eternity.

Then it came and my first listen was with c3g and 6 x 6bx7 using hd800. All the anticipation and waiting was worth it and at that moment, the smile was real when I heard the first song.


----------



## UntilThen

Daanish said:


> Has anyone had experience listening to Lundahl vs. non lundahl on the OTL? Is the difference in noise floor significant? I am not really a critical listener, most of my listening is done while reading/studying, so I want my music to sound as good as possible but maybe I care a little less about that last 3-5%.



Daanish get the Lundahl transformer because the last 3 - 5 % is when the genie appears and grants you 3 wishes.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Daanish get the Lundahl transformer because the last 3 - 5 % is when the genie appears and grants you 3 wishes.



I don't know much about genies lol, but I can say that as used in the GOTL, the Lundahl is quieter. Other than that, there is no sonic difference. So it really does come down to how tolerant you are of background noise. To my mind that background noise is about the same as what you will hear listening to live music, with the audience whispering and papers rustling and perhaps the heating and ventilation fans.

In the end, the quieter Lundahl transformers will cost more and there is a little less flexibility in rolling rectifiers. But if "quiet" is very high on your wish list, Lundahls are the way to go.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn, I meant to ask you this for sometime but I kept forgetting to do so.
> 
> Are the c3g set up as strapped triodes or pentodes in the GOTL?



Yes they are strapped as triodes. they have less gain as a triode and still have more gain then a 6SN7.
I also think they sound better as a triode.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> The HD800 were made for Glenn's OTL amp.



If one was real smart, they would invest in this combo and pair it with a nice dac.

Then enjoy the music and ride off into the sun set...leave head-fi and save the rest of your money.

Unfortunately, I am not that smart


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> If one was real smart, they would invest in this combo and pair it with a nice dac.
> 
> Then enjoy the music and ride off into the sun set...leave head-fi and save the rest of your money.
> 
> Unfortunately, I am not that smart



You are smarter Joe.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes they are strapped as triodes. they have less gain as a triode and still have more gain then a 6SN7.est
> I also think they sound better as a triode.



Thanks Glenn. That explains why the c3g are the sweetest and clearest drivers I have heard in the OTL amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Thanks Glenn. That explains why the c3g are the sweetest and clearest drivers I have heard in the OTL amp.



It is a great sounding tube maybe the best.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> It is a great sounding tube maybe the best.



I really like your idea of a C3g only amp. Did that ever go anywhere?


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> To my knowledge, Glenn straps C3gs as triodes in all his amps.
> 
> A little further afield.... I have recently acquired three early Westinghouse 227s. As best as I can tell, this one was manufactured for Cunningham sometime between April, 1928, and December, 1928. I guess one could say that it is 90 years old...
> 
> ...




Great pictures Ken.
The flying saucer getter holder does indeed look like the ones used in the Russian tubes and the 227 tube is about 90 years old...who would have thunk it!


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:


> I really like your idea of a C3g only amp. Did that ever go anywhere?



Never had the time to do it. I probably would use the C3m with the 20 volt filament they seem more readily available.
If I get a lull in amp builds I will try it. Already have the tubes and most parts.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn Super 9 OTL amp vs Woo Audio WA5

When I moot the idea of the above comparison, Arnold made a remark in jest. He said, 'Let's hope the GOTL doesn't smoke the WA5'. I laugh to myself then but after a week of listening to these 2 amps side by side, it didn't seem that hilarious anymore.

I'll take you back to Nov 2017, when I first heard WA5 at a local Sydney meet. Fed from Yggdrasil and listening with Focal Utopia, Abyss and HD800, it certainly sound like an end game amp to my ears. I went home that day and bemoan the fact that the experience was only for a day at the meet.

2 months later, Glenn Super 9 OTL amp arrived at my home. The first listen was with Yggdrasil > GOTL (c3g and 6 x 6BX7) > HD800. It was a moment of reckoning when I listen to the first song... 'Telegraph Road' by Dire Straits. I felt the same wow factor that I experienced with the WA5 at the meet 2 months prior. I knew that I was listening to a very special tube amp in the GOTL. None of my previous experience with other tube amps have given me that goosebumps feeling.... and I did owned some really good sounding OTL amps ...  Feliks Audio Elise and Euforia, La Figaro 339. These amps occupied me for the most part of 2 years and I love their euphony enough to chalk up countless posts. However, the arrival of Glenn's OTL signal something special with it's dynamics, clarity, impact and euphony. This is the lion of the pack. It's Simba.

Last week, I had the opportunity to get WA5 on a 2 weeks loan. I spend a week listening to both GOTL and WA5, side by side, fed from Yggdrasil and listening mainly with HD800. Forget about the fact that it's not a fair comparison because the WA5-LE cost about $5000 aussie dollars, not including the $2400 Takasuki TA-300b tubes, Brimar 6SN7GTY drivers and Emission Labs 5U4G rectifiers. GOTL would be about less than 1/3 of the WA5 cost. Now how do they compare?

For sheer impact, I was shocked at how close they sound. Both has that wow factor that draws you in, make you sit upright and pay attention to what you're listening to. Both has the ability to make the HD800 sing like it has never sung before. They are that good. However there are some differences upon more attentive listening.

WA5 has a fuller sound with a more dense texture. Soundstage seem wider too but only just. It's the mids that is more pronounced. Bass though isn't as involving as on the GOTL. Bass is not as tight and controlled as on the GOTL. It also sound more relaxing in comparison with GOTL. Apart from that, it pass with flying colours in it's handing of vocals, male or female. Large orchestra pieces are also handled with aplomb.

GOTL sounds almost as big, bold and beautiful but there's more. It's the dynamics that grabs you. Details are more vivid and engaging. It's ear titillating good. Bass is GOTL's specialty. It's not a loose, flabby bass. Neither is it a tight hard ass bass. It's tight and controlled but with the right amount of damping to present an impactful bass with bounce.

In the one week that I had with these 2 amps, I find myself involuntarily plugging my HD800 jack into the GOTL more. That about sums up my preference. In conclusion, both amps would be my end game amps but when you take price into consideration, it's an easy choice. In this respect, the GOTL did smoke the WA5.


----------



## 2359glenn

Thanks for the review Matt


----------



## rnros

Thanks, UT. Enjoyed your detailed review. Well done.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Glenn Super 9 OTL amp vs Woo Audio WA5
> 
> When I moot the idea of the above comparison, Arnold made a remark in jest. He said, 'Let's hope the GOTL doesn't smoke the WA5'. I laugh to myself then but after a week of listening to these 2 amps side by side, it didn't seem that hilarious anymore.
> 
> ...



Very nice comparison Matt. When I heard @punit 's Glenn OTL in his house a couple of years ago with other amps such as LC Glass, BH Mainline, etc., I knew I had to have an OTL amp with fairy dust made by Glenn. I have then heard the WA-5 in a meet where many local head-fiers have been raving about. I liked the WA-5 but it didn't let me forget the Glenn's OTL. Some were asking why I wasn't that impressed with the WA-5. The reason is because I have heard the soulmate of my HD800 SD already and no other amp had made me feel what I felt when I first heard Glenn's OTL amp. Then came Darna in the post. We have been living together happily ever after since.


----------



## yates7592

Great review Matt! Using c3g and 6BX7 in GOTL you have found that WA5 has a fuller sound with more pronounced mids. Do you think using some different tubes on GOTL in your shootout could have altered this conclusion?


----------



## UntilThen

For sure Yates. You can alter the sound with 6as7 for a fuller tone with more bloom but I like how the OTL amp sounds with c3g and 6 x 6bx7.

That's my preferred sound signature.


----------



## whirlwind

Great review Matt, the cost of the tubes between the two amps is more than startling.


----------



## 2359glenn

The tubes in my 300B amp costs as much I hate that.  I am into cheep tubes. Really the only reason my 300b
sounds better is the transformer I use.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> The tubes in my 300B amp costs as much I hate that.  I am into cheep tubes. Really the only reason my 300b
> sounds better is the transformer I use.



And perhaps because you use the C3g as a driver rather than a 6SN7?


----------



## Rossliew

No better recognition nor reference for Glenn's wonderfully built amps. Two thumbs up.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> The tubes in my 300B amp costs as much I hate that.  I am into cheep tubes. Really the only reason my 300b
> sounds better is the transformer I use.



Cheers to the fact  that the GOTL can come so close, with 'cheap tubes' to the sonics of costly 300B's.

Excellent engineering, I'd say!  

Thank you, Glenn!!


----------



## yates7592

Some dumb noob questions for my incoming GOTL if you would be so kind as to humour me:
1. Plugging in/unplugging headphones should be done when the amp is switched ON?
2. Replacing tubes should be done with amp switched OFF?
3. Amp burn in just normal listening sessions, not 24/7?
4. How long for amp/tube warm up for each session?

Thanks!


----------



## gibosi (Feb 17, 2018)

yates7592 said:


> Some dumb noob questions for my incoming GOTL if you would be so kind as to humour me:
> 1. Plugging in/unplugging headphones should be done when the amp is switched ON?
> 2. Replacing tubes should be done with amp switched OFF?
> 3. Amp burn in just normal listening sessions, not 24/7?
> ...



1. Turn the amp on and wait about a minute. And then plug in headphones. And then put the headphones on your head. After you are finished listening, unplug headphones, and then turn off the amp.

Tubes tend to fail when power is applied and removed. So protect your ears and your headphones. Turn on amp first... and turn off amp last.

2. Yes. Never swap out tubes when the amp is on. Never.

3. Personal preference, but I would suggest let the amp burn in while listening. It sounds great right out of the box! 

4. About one minute. However, 5998s tend to need more time, perhaps as much as 5 minutes.
But I would add that in some cases, it takes a good 30 minutes for some tubes to sound their best.


----------



## UntilThen

You can't remove tubes from the amp when it's on. That's the 11th commandments. Also let the tubes cool down completely before removing it.

I just did a change over of tubes in the OTL. I can afford to wait because while waiting I'm listening on the Woo. 

I have c3g and 5998 on now in boosted mode.... it's a 'I've arrived at the mountain top' experience.


----------



## leftside

Woo Audio have totally different costs (marketing, etc) than Glenn. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you were purchasing a Glenn amp from another company such as Woo, Feliks, etc, you'd be paying at least DOUBLE the price.

As a side note, but still related. The Glenn 300B takes a little longer to warm up than the others mentioned. I like to give it at least 10 mins. 

My Glenn 300B has a new partner in town - a VPI Prime Signature. Been waiting over a month for this as apparently VPI can't pump them out quick enough. Getting it all setup this weekend. Will report back later...


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> And perhaps because you use the C3g as a driver rather than a 6SN7?



Yes the C3g is a great sounding driver and easily drives the 300B


----------



## yates7592

gibosi said:


> 1. Turn the amp on and wait about a minute. And then plug in headphones. And then put the headphones on your head. After you are finished listening, unplug headphones, and then turn off the amp.
> 
> Tubes tend to fail when power is applied and removed. So protect your ears and your headphones. Turn on amp first... and turn off amp last.
> 
> ...



Thanks! Seems I was almost there.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> 1. Turn the amp on and wait about a minute. And then plug in headphones. And then put the headphones on your head. After you are finished listening, unplug headphones, and then turn off the amp.
> 
> Tubes tend to fail when power is applied and removed. So protect your ears and your headphones. Turn on amp first... and turn off amp last.
> 
> ...



Regarding 5998s I would let then run awhile before plugging in the phones. These tubes tend to arc over I had one blow a headphone up.
I never use 5998 anymore no matter how good they sound. Unless you have a pair that you are sure of and used them several times
I would let them worm up for 15 minuets before plugging in phones. Having one arc over is no fun for your phones  or your ears.


----------



## gibosi

Has anyone seen a Milkotron? Yes, a tube made with a milk bottle!

From a humorous article appearing in the November, 1930 issue of QST, a monthly magazine still published by the American Radio Relay League (ARRL).

http://www.one-electron.com/QST-Archive/QST-Nov1930-TheMilkotron.pdf


----------



## 2359glenn

Finishing up yates7592's amp now just stopped for a cup of coffee.
Will see how the OTL sounds with Duelund coupling caps shortly.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Finishing up yates7592's amp now just stopped for a cup of coffee.
> Will see how the OTL sounds with Duelund coupling caps shortly.



How many more amp builds after Yates before mine? 4-5?


----------



## UntilThen

Yates will love it. Mine had Sprague Aero blue caps.....

Don't know much about caps but mine sounds very good.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Finishing up yates7592's amp now just stopped for a cup of coffee.
> Will see how the OTL sounds with Duelund coupling caps shortly.



Are you installing the RS series?  The Duelund RS (coupling caps) sound great in my GEL3N.


----------



## 2359glenn

monsterzero said:


> How many more amp builds after Yates before mine? 4-5?



There are actually 2 but waiting for there chassis so I might start yours this week..


----------



## Redmetal1897

Just sent Glenn my deposit for an OTL! Many thanks to everyone who has helped with their thoughts and feedback (and dealt with my noob questions!). With my ZMF Auteurs on the way I am hoping I am somewhat close to endgame


----------



## UntilThen

Daanish said:


> Just sent Glenn my deposit for an OTL! Many thanks to everyone who has helped with their thoughts and feedback (and dealt with my noob questions!). With my ZMF Auteurs on the way I am hoping I am somewhat close to endgame



Glenn's OTL amp will pair very well with LCD-2 and ZMF Auteurs. I'm using Eikon now with GOTL and c3g with 6 x 6BL7gt and the SQ is unbelievably good. 

I'm glad you went ahead with ordering a Glenn's OTL amp. Now what configuration did you get?


----------



## UntilThen

monsterzero said:


> How many more amp builds after Yates before mine? 4-5?



Looks like you're next. Now for some prep work. Buy a pair of NOS c3g tubes and 6 NOS x 6BL7 or 6BX7. The 6B** doesn't even have to be matched brands but don't mix 6BL7 with 6BX7. 

Get good healthy NOS tubes and you're ready.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Glenn's OTL amp will pair very well with LCD-2 and ZMF Auteurs. I'm using Eikon now with GOTL and c3g with 6 x 6BL7gt and the SQ is unbelievably good.
> 
> I'm glad you went ahead with ordering a Glenn's OTL amp. Now what configuration did you get?



Must resist selling current gear to grab a Glenn amp for the Auteur.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Must resist selling current gear to grab a Glenn amp for the Auteur.



Resistance is futile ! 

You have a matching Gumby and Mjolnir 2 combo. I have the Yggdrasil and Ragnarok combo and I thought I will live happily thereafter but alas not so. Now that Glenn's OTL is here, Ragnarok is in another room... on the floor. It hasn't been powered on for a month !


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> Must resist selling current gear to grab a Glenn amp for the Auteur.



Welcome Phantaminum, 
Highly recommended, Glenn OTL, will take a few months but well worth the wait.
Actually good to have a little time to consider the options available.
And gives you some time to acquire some of the tubes you want to try.

Did I say Highly Recommended!?


----------



## lukeap69




----------



## rnros

Daanish said:


> Just sent Glenn my deposit for an OTL! Many thanks to everyone who has helped with their thoughts and feedback (and dealt with my noob questions!). With my ZMF Auteurs on the way I am hoping I am somewhat close to endgame



Congrats. Great amp!
Lots of fantastic tube options available for GOTL.


----------



## leftside

Phantaminum said:


> Must resist selling current gear to grab a Glenn amp for the Auteur.


I'll let you know how the pairing sounds next week


----------



## yates7592

2359glenn said:


> Finishing up yates7592's amp now just stopped for a cup of coffee.
> Will see how the OTL sounds with Duelund coupling caps shortly.



Thanks Glenn, very exciting news! HD800 fully burned in now, cable burned in, tubes at the ready.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 18, 2018)

Daanish said:


> Just sent Glenn my deposit for an OTL! Many thanks to everyone who has helped with their thoughts and feedback (and dealt with my noob questions!). With my ZMF Auteurs on the way I am hoping I am somewhat close to endgame



Yeah, you should be very happy indeed.  I own two ZMF headphones and both have a wonderful synergy with Glenn's amps.
Very enjoyable.





2359glenn said:


> Regarding 5998s I would let then run awhile before plugging in the phones. These tubes tend to arc over I had one blow a headphone up.
> I never use 5998 anymore no matter how good they sound. Unless you have a pair that you are sure of and used them several times
> I would let them worm up for 15 minuets before plugging in phones. Having one arc over is no fun for your phones  or your ears.




Yeah, it can take awhile for this tube to quit pinging and it sounds best anyway after it has warmed up nicely.  Most problems that I have ever had with tubes has been on start up.

I have two sets that have not made any pinging since the first few times that I used them, still I let them warm up 15 minutes before plugging in the headphones.

I also have a set that is not matched..one of these ping a little on start up, then settles in. They are not matched but sound the same to my ears as my matched sets.

It is one thing to lose a tube but another to blow a driver.


----------



## Redmetal1897

UntilThen said:


> Glenn's OTL amp will pair very well with LCD-2 and ZMF Auteurs. I'm using Eikon now with GOTL and c3g with 6 x 6BL7gt and the SQ is unbelievably good.
> 
> I'm glad you went ahead with ordering a Glenn's OTL amp. Now what configuration did you get?





rnros said:


> Congrats. Great amp!
> Lots of fantastic tube options available for GOTL.





whirlwind said:


> Yeah, you should be very happy indeed.  I own two ZMF headphones and both have a wonderful synergy with Glenn's amps.
> Very enjoyable.



Thanks gents, very excited. Had a firm $1000 budget before getting into this thread, ended up over but not too much!

Configuration:

6 output tube sockets
C3g sockets
HEXFRED adapter

I don't plan on tube rolling too much. I want to eventually build to settle on the main configurations that seems to work well here and the above setup should get me there


----------



## JazzVinyl

Daanish said:


> Thanks gents, very excited. Had a firm $1000 budget before getting into this thread, ended up over but not too much!
> 
> Configuration:
> 
> ...



You have the right configuration if tube rolling is not something you will want to do.


----------



## Khragon

Here is my Auteurs in its native environment to help you with your resistance


----------



## whirlwind

Khragon said:


> Here is my Auteurs in its native environment to help you with your resistance




Great gear....are those teak ?


----------



## Khragon

Yes, teak.  I like the look better than black wood. Sounds really musical with Glenn 300B.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 18, 2018)

Khragon said:


> Yes, teak.  I like the look better than black wood. Sounds really musical with Glenn 300B.




They look great and i can only imagine how they sound.

How much noise do they leak 

About like most open cans that you have tried ?


----------



## leftside

Khragon said:


> Here is my Auteurs in its native environment to help you with your resistance


You beat me to it! I'll post with the Blackwood's soon. Looking at the ZMF spreadsheet it appears there was about a 50/50 split preference between the two. Can't be too many people with the 300B/Auteur combo. I guess our tastes are close enough


----------



## Phantaminum

Khragon said:


> Here is my Auteurs in its native environment to help you with your resistance


 
You guys are killing me with the pics, lol.

I do have a question to owners of the EL3N tube amp. How does it handle low impedance and high impedance headphones? I’m looking for an amp to drive the Auteurs, HD650, as well as the Aeon Open Flow, and E-Mu Teaks which the latter two are low impedance cans.

My thought is if the Auteurs eclipse the Aeon Flow Open then I’ll sell them and purchase the GOTL. If not then possibly buying the GEL3N instead to be able to run low and high impedance headphones. Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## rnros (Feb 18, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> You guys are killing me with the pics, lol.
> 
> I do have a question to owners of the EL3N tube amp. How does it handle low impedance and high impedance headphones? I’m looking for an amp to drive the Auteurs, HD650, as well as the Aeon Open Flow, and E-Mu Teaks which the latter two are low impedance cans.
> 
> My thought is if the Auteurs eclipse the Aeon Flow Open then I’ll sell them and purchase the GOTL. If not then possibly buying the GEL3N instead to be able to run low and high impedance headphones. Thanks in advance for any advice.



Can't answer your first question, but I can tell you that the GOTL pairs well with the Aeon Closed. That's an understatement, I think it is outstanding with the GOTL. Also drives my other low impedance headphones without issue.

I know the conventional wisdom, OTL for high impedance only, but it does not apply here. It may also apply less often going forward since low impedance does not necessarily mean low efficiency anymore. And, seriously, GOTL can use six 6BX7s! Or, better still, two Cetron 6336Bs. Astonishing power, and control.

I have high expectation for the GEL3N and look forward to hearing it for myself, but IMHO, I would not overlook the GOTL. Guessing you have already researched the differences between OTL and trasformer coupled, so you know the unique qualities and advantages of each.

So either way, good choice.


----------



## 2359glenn

With the OTL you can get lower impedance using 6336 output tubes. Also if you get it with six output tube sockets you can use four 6AS7s.
And get low impedance.


----------



## 2359glenn

Right now listening to @yates7592's amp sounds really good with the Duelund coupling caps. Not sure if allot of difference don't
Have a amp without them to do a A-B test.
Sounding really good with my HD-800s And using lowly Svetlana 6H13 output tubes. The best thing about the 6H13 is they are quiet
No noises that I get with RCAs and  GE 6AS7s


----------



## Khragon

whirlwind said:


> They look great and i can only imagine how they sound.
> 
> How much noise do they leak
> 
> About like most open cans that you have tried ?



I think they leak around 70% of what you would expect from an open can.  Definitely less than Utopia and LCD2 though, I thought that's a nice plus.  I can use it at lower volume on the bed and wouldn't disturb the missus.


----------



## lukeap69

Daanish said:


> Thanks gents, very excited. Had a firm $1000 budget before getting into this thread, ended up over but not too much!
> 
> Configuration:
> 
> ...



Almost the same configuration as my Darna. I also said the same thing about tube rolling... Well, I have now a box  full of tubes including some for future use.


----------



## yates7592

I'd like to buy some spare fuses for my OTL. What size fuse will I need (on 230V), and where is the fuse swapped out, do I need to take the lid off?


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Well, I have now a box full of tubes including some for future use.



I have a box full of tubes too.. more than a box. Alas my latest purchase the ECC33 has gone missing. Lost in transit. $236 went up in smoke. Can't believe it. The seller can't believe it too. After a lot of grumbles and complaints, he refunded me in full. I don't think I will chase another ECC33 or ECC35 again.


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> I'd like to buy some spare fuses for my OTL. What size fuse will I need (on 230V), and where is the fuse swapped out, do I need to take the lid off?



When Glenn send me the amp, he also send me 3 spare fuses and a small allen key for the volume knob. If you look at the a/c socket, you will see a small plastic flap. Flip that open and that's where the fuse is.


----------



## 2359glenn

yates7592 said:


> I'd like to buy some spare fuses for my OTL. What size fuse will I need (on 230V), and where is the fuse swapped out, do I need to take the lid off?


----------



## 2359glenn

I will send you some and a 3DG4 rectifier and a 1633/25SN7 driver that I am using to burn the amp in now


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> I have a box full of tubes too.. more than a box. Alas my latest purchase the ECC33 has gone missing. Lost in transit. $236 went up in smoke. Can't believe it. The seller can't believe it too. After a lot of grumbles and complaints, he refunded me in full. I don't think I will chase another ECC33 or ECC35 again.


Oh, sorry to hear about the ECC33.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Oh, sorry to hear about the ECC33.



Some things are not meant to be. I bid high to make sure that I win the auction for the ECC33 and then it got lost in transit.... 

However I don't think I need the ECC33. I'm now using c36 with 2 x 7236 and 2 x 5998. It's dynamite.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Some things are not meant to be. I bid high to make sure that I win the auction for the ECC33 and then it got lost in transit....
> 
> However I don't think I need the ECC33. I'm now using c36 with 2 x 7236 and 2 x 5998. It's dynamite.


In due time Matt. I thought before that I would not own 5998 and GEC 6AS7. Now I have a pair of GEC and 2 pairs of 5998.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Some things are not meant to be. I bid high to make sure that I win the auction for the ECC33 and then it got lost in transit....
> 
> However I don't think I need the ECC33. I'm now using c36 with 2 x 7236 and 2 x 5998. It's dynamite.


Did you combine 7236 and 5998? Interesting...


----------



## yates7592

Thanks Glenn and UT!


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Did you combine 7236 and 5998? Interesting...



Yes. You do have Cetron 7236 right? Try it.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Yes. You do have Cetron 7236 right? Try it.


My 7236 are Sylvania and Tung-Sol. The only Cetrons I have are 6336.


----------



## whirlwind

Khragon said:


> I think they leak around 70% of what you would expect from an open can.  Definitely less than Utopia and LCD2 though, I thought that's a nice plus.  I can use it at lower volume on the bed and wouldn't disturb the missus.



Thanks for the info.
I can listen to my Atticus/Ori and my wife watches TV less than 15 feet from me and she can not hear them.

Sounds like they are  very good in this area for an open headphone.





Phantaminum said:


> You guys are killing me with the pics, lol.
> 
> I do have a question to owners of the EL3N tube amp. How does it handle low impedance and high impedance headphones? I’m looking for an amp to drive the Auteurs, HD650, as well as the Aeon Open Flow, and E-Mu Teaks which the latter two are low impedance cans.
> 
> My thought is if the Auteurs eclipse the Aeon Flow Open then I’ll sell them and purchase the GOTL. If not then possibly buying the GEL3N instead to be able to run low and high impedance headphones. Thanks in advance for any advice.



This really matters on how hard to drive your lower impedance cans are.
For instance I have a 32 Ohm Grado that has dynamic drivers...this is about the easiest headphone to drive that i have come across.
Sounds wonderful on both OTL and EL3N.

The ZMF ori is a 50 Ohm planar and it is much tougher to drive this headphone.
It sound good on the OTL amp...I usually use 6336 tubes for this.

With the EL3N amp, in one tube mode,this is the mode that is dead silent back round...dark as midnight with nothing in the way of the signal path.
The Ori for my ears, need more power than one tube mode, two tube mode really makes this headphone come alive....I listen in this mode with the ZMF Ori seems it has much better control of the drivers in two tube mode.

ZMF Atticus and HD800 both sound wonderful from either amp and you can use the one or two tube mode with either headphone.

I  listened to the Atticus yesterday morning on EL3N amp in one tube mode with 80 globe rectifier ....listened to SRV.... DSD64X
Such an enjoyable couple of hours.

The Atticus, HD800 and Grado RS1 can enjoy the EL3N in both modes.....for me personally, the ZMF Ori needs two tube mode


----------



## yates7592

What's the 7236 house-sound?


----------



## mordy

yates7592 said:


> What's the 7236 house-sound?


Hi yates7592,
I can only speak for the Tung Sol 7236 (there is a Sylvania 7236 that is supposed to sound different and isn't as well liked). The sound is neutral and punchy; some people have called it closer to ss sound.
Personally, I prefer different power tubes, but in an amp like the Glenn you can achieve different synergies by mixing two different pairs of power tubes, something that is not possible with other amps that only use one pair of power tubes.


----------



## Redmetal1897

lukeap69 said:


> Almost the same configuration as my Darna. I also said the same thing about tube rolling... Well, I have now a box  full of tubes including some for future use.



I have sinking feeling I can only resist for so long, hopefully my set up will keep me in check...


----------



## lukeap69

Daanish said:


> I have sinking feeling I can only resist for so long, hopefully my set up will keep me in check...


I am sure you will enjoy Glenn OTL amp. Tube rolling is just a bonus.


----------



## Phantaminum

rnros said:


> Can't answer your first question, but I can tell you that the GOTL pairs well with the Aeon Closed. That's an understatement, I think it is outstanding with the GOTL. Also drives my other low impedance headphones without issue.
> 
> I know the conventional wisdom, OTL for high impedance only, but it does not apply here. It may also apply less often going forward since low impedance does not necessarily mean low efficiency anymore. And, seriously, GOTL can use six 6BX7s! Or, better still, two Cetron 6336Bs. Astonishing power, and control.
> 
> ...






2359glenn said:


> With the OTL you can get lower impedance using 6336 output tubes. Also if you get it with six output tube sockets you can use four 6AS7s.
> And get low impedance.





whirlwind said:


> Thanks for the info.
> I can listen to my Atticus/Ori and my wife watches TV less than 15 feet from me and she can not hear them.
> 
> Sounds like they are  very good in this area for an open headphone.
> ...



 Thank you guys for your feedback!


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

Was reading up on another amp that uses four power tubes and came across interesting observations - have no idea if they would apply to the GOTL _or even if they are valid._
1) The French Thomson 6080 tubes sound bland, but when mixed with another pair of power tubes (In this case RCA 6AS7) the results are excellent. I believe that you have the Thomsons - maybe you could try it, or with a different combination.
2) The placement (order) of the mixed tubes makes a difference in sound. In the amp I read about, the four power tubes are lined up width wise. The position of the power tubes  made a difference in sound. 
True/false? Snake oil? Only one way to find out......


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Was reading up on another amp that uses four power tubes and came across interesting observations - have no idea if they would apply to the GOTL _or even if they are valid._
> 1) The French Thomson 6080 tubes sound bland, but when mixed with another pair of power tubes (In this case RCA 6AS7) the results are excellent. I believe that you have the Thomsons - maybe you could try it, or with a different combination.
> ...



Mordy, it's interesting to mix and match power tubes but I won't go into detail analysis of how each combination sounds. The days of intense tube rolling are over for me. I'll leave this to someone else to experiment.

I do know a good tone when I hear one. The ECC33 showed up today after it was reported as lost. I think I'm fated to hear one.  I've contacted the seller to let him know that his refund will be refunded by me again. 

A few hours into using the ECC33 and what I'm hearing is a very good sounding driver. Tight bass and a very smooth mid range with clear non fatiguing highs. It will take a while before I can gauge how it fares against my other favourite drivers. It's a very quiet tube too. It better be at AUD$236 for a single tube and that's a bargain. Check ebay and you'll see prices at AUD$442 each for a NOS Mullard ECC33 tube.

It's working very well in Glenn's OTL with a pair of Tung Sol 5998. The much higher gain doesn't throw it off course. It pretty much behaves like a very good 6sn7 but the sparkle and tone.... this is a very good sounding driver.


----------



## UntilThen (Feb 20, 2018)

Just when I thought I have heard the best from the OTL amp, along comes this tube and change the sonic landscape. If you do get a chance, you should try a ECC33 or ECC35. Leftside is correct. ECC33 is hotter than Scarlett Johansson.

Who would have thought that a tube primarily intended for use in flip-flop, scaling and computer circuits can sound so good in a headphone tube amp.


----------



## leftside (Feb 20, 2018)

Glad you like it. Would have felt bad if you spent that sort of money on a dud.

My wife is currently running ECC35's + TS 5998's in the WA22. I used to run 4 * 6BL7's, but my wife thinks the adapters for the 6BL7's are unsightly in the living room. So... expensive 5998's it is...

You got a good price for your ECC33. As gibosi and I mentioned before it looks like a rebranded Mullard. It's blue print is quite unique. I have a few with yellow and white print, but not with blue, though I should double-check.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, it's interesting to mix and match power tubes but I won't go into detail analysis of how each combination sounds. The days of intense tube rolling are over for me. I'll leave this to someone else to experiment.
> 
> I do know a good tone when I hear one. The ECC33 showed up today after it was reported as lost. I think I'm fated to hear one.  I've contacted the seller to let him know that his refund will be refunded by me again.
> 
> ...



What did I say Matt, in due time. LOL. I didn't expect it to be so soon though. Enjoy your new toys!


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Glad you like it. Would have felt bad if you spent that sort of money on a dud.
> 
> My wife is currently running ECC35's + TS 5998's in the WA22. I used to run 4 * 6BL7's, but my wife thinks the adapters for the 6BL7's are unsightly in the living room. So... expensive 5998's it is...
> 
> You got a good price for your ECC33. As gibosi and I mentioned before it looks like a rebranded Mullard. It's blue print is quite unique. I have a few with yellow and white print, but not with blue, though I should double-check.



It's probably blue because it's made for Haltron by Mullard. The box is very well preserved and the flaps shows no sign of tear. Seller is getting rid of his collection after years of keeping it. He had 2 listed for sale but I bought only one.

I think the ECC33 and ECC35 are similar except the ECC35 is the 12.6 volts version while the ECC33 is the 6.3 volt version. Great sounding tube though. So airy and clear. The details seeping through makes listening so engrossing.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> I think the ECC33 and ECC35 are similar except the ECC35 is the 12.6 volts version while the ECC33 is the 6.3 volt version.


They both have 6.3 V heaters. The ECC35 is very close to the 6SL7GT.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> They both have 6.3 V heaters. The ECC35 is very close to the 6SL7GT.



You are right. They are both 6.3v. Looks like I have to try the ECC35 at some point.


----------



## UntilThen

'Gain factor' :-
6SN7 = 20
ECC32 = 32
ECC33 = 35
ECC35 = 68
6SL7 = 70


----------



## Redmetal1897

Friends, with an eye towards my incoming OTL, what do you think of these:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6sn7-tube-pairs-for-sale.871814/


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> 'Gain factor' :-
> 6SN7 = 20
> ECC32 = 32
> ECC33 = 35
> ...


You skipped the ECC34 @ 11.5.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> 'Gain factor' :-
> 6SN7 = 20
> ECC32 = 32
> ECC33 = 35
> ...





Oskari said:


> You skipped the ECC34 @ 11.5.



And just for giggles...the C3g in Triode mode = 41


----------



## Oskari

Daanish said:


> Friends, with an eye towards my incoming OTL, what do you think of these:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6sn7-tube-pairs-for-sale.871814/


"Phillips Miniwatt 5692 (6SN7)" sounds odd. I'd want to see photos.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks for filling in the blanks guys. I didn't know ECC34 gain is so low at 11.5


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 21, 2018)

Daanish said:


> Friends, with an eye towards my incoming OTL, what do you think of these:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6sn7-tube-pairs-for-sale.871814/




If you have the 6/12/25 volt driver switch...you can grab some RCA 1633 smoked glass for probably no more than $20 a pair...may even find them for $4-$5 each


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> If you have the 6/12/25 volt driver switch...you can grab some RCA 1633 smoked glass for probably no more than $20 a pair...may even find then for $4-$5 each



No multi volt switch


----------



## 2359glenn

Just shipped @yates7592 amp he should have it on Tuesday.


----------



## JazzVinyl

That @yates7592,  is a lucky so and so


----------



## yates7592

Severely anticipating my GOTL arrival. Hope those bad people at HM Customs & Revenue do not use the usual tricks. Sometimes 5 days in transit from USA can then lead to another 7 days with said box sat around waiting for inspection. We shall see! But either way it will be worth the wait I am absolutely sure of that. Thanks Glenn!


----------



## 2359glenn (Feb 22, 2018)

yates7592 said:


> Severely anticipating my GOTL arrival. Hope those bad people at HM Customs & Revenue do not use the usual tricks. Sometimes 5 days in transit from USA can then lead to another 7 days with said box sat around waiting for inspection. We shall see! But either way it will be worth the wait I am absolutely sure of that. Thanks Glenn!



If they do that They will have to give me a full refund on the postage it is guaranteed to be at your house on Tuesday or money back.
That is why I shipped it this way.


----------



## yates7592

2359glenn said:


> If they do that They will have to give me a full refund on the postage it is guaranteed to be at your house on Tuesday or money back.
> That is why I shipped it this way.



Yes, thanks Glenn, much apprecated.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> If they do that They will have to give me a full refund on the postage it is guaranteed to be at your house on Tuesday or money back.
> That is why I shipped it this way.




Ha!

Great thinking  

Congrats yates, good times ahead.


----------



## JazzVinyl

With Yate’s amp on it’s way, hope I have moved up a notch on ye olde totem pole...

Have my beautiful FDD20 ready and waiting for its GOTL:


----------



## leftside

All toobs! Performed a few upgrades recently. Normally have the turntable in this room, but thought I’d bring in the DAC for a complete end-to-end tube experience for a few days.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> All toobs! Performed a few upgrades recently. Normally have the turntable in this room, but thought I’d bring in the DAC for a complete end-to-end tube experience for a few days.




What a great room of gear!

The 42EC4/PY500 has got to be one of my favorite tubes for glow, so unique....makes me feel all warm and cozy inside   

Thanks for sharing the pics.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Feb 24, 2018)

leftside said:


> All toobs! Performed a few upgrades recently. Normally have the turntable in this room, but thought I’d bring in the DAC for a complete end-to-end tube experience for a few days.



Beautiful gear, Leftside!!!  All tube plus turntable vs all tube plus tube buffered DAC...

Which source do you like the best?  Probably depends on the day...!


----------



## yates7592

JazzVinyl said:


> With Yate’s amp on it’s way, hope I have moved up a notch on ye olde totem pole...
> 
> Have my beautiful FDD20 ready and waiting for its GOTL:



That is one beautiful looking tube. If it sounds as good as it looks.......


----------



## JazzVinyl

yates7592 said:


> That is one beautiful looking tube. If it sounds as good as it looks.......



It was one of my faves in the Elisa amp.  Hoping for even better goodness in Glenn's OTL.  The FDD20 is getting harder to find these days.

Sounds somewhere between the forward-ness of 6N7 and the laid back-ness of ECC31...

This one is from 1943, made in Milan, Italy.  Arrived in the original paper/cardboard wrappings, The Philips seal intact.  When I unwrapped it, the aroma of sewing machine oil wafted out....I thought...wow, smells like the factory probably did, in 1943!


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Beautiful gear, Leftside!!!  All tube plus turntable vs all tube plus tube buffered DAC...
> 
> Which source do you like the best?  Probably depends one the day...!


Thanks. Hard to say right now as the TT is so new. Certainly they are much closer since the upgrades. I do notice a difference with headphones (LCD-3) vs speakers. The speakers are tremendously detailed with equally good imaging whereas the headphones have a warmer sound which I prefer at night (which is when I listen to headphones when my wife is asleep)


----------



## Phantaminum

Here we go guys. 

PM sent @2359glenn


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> Here we go guys.
> 
> PM sent @2359glenn



Congrats, @Phantaminum. Which amp did you choose?


----------



## Phantaminum

rnros said:


> Congrats, @Phantaminum. Which amp did you choose?



I decided to go with the GOTL. I think that’ll be the best option for the Auteurs and my HD650s. The rest is deciding on options/upgrades.


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> I decided to go with the GOTL. I think that’ll be the best option for the Auteurs and my HD650s. The rest is deciding on options/upgrades.



GOTL is a beautiful amp, lots of listening excitement ahead for you. Should also pair well with your Aeon.


----------



## mordy

Are these tubes worth getting?


----------



## 2359glenn

Are you going to get my amp?
These really have to much gain 6F8G would be better


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> Are you going to get my amp?
> These really have to much gain 6F8G would be better



If you're asking me then yes, lol. Let me know what the upgrade options are.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> If you're asking me then yes, lol. Let me know what the upgrade options are.



I will get back to you tomorrow


----------



## UntilThen

WA5 has gone back to it's owner. He was at my place and listen with both amps and told me that Glenn's OTL is clearer and more dynamic. So we're in agreement there. Don't get me wrong. I do like the WA5 but I like my GOTL more. I like the many tones I can get out of it, especially with the latest inclusion of ECC33.

I'm using c3g and 6xb7 now and and there's no doubt it's one of my fav tube combination. Next would be ECC33 and 5998s.

@Phantaminum if the decision gets too hard on which configuration, just get what I have.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> ... Glenn's OTL is clearer and more dynamic. So we're in agreement there. ...



Same result I had with my WA5 vs Glenn 300B. The Glenn 300B is kinda like someone took my GS-X Mk2 and added some tube magic to it while keeping almost all of the detail, dynamics and punch.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Are these tubes worth getting?



I've used the 6C8G as a driver in the GOTL, even though it has an amplification factor of 36, which is pretty high. But then, the nice thing about the GOTL is you can plug almost anything into the driver socket and it sounds fine. 

But of course, a 6F8G or 6SN7 with an amplification factor of 20 is preferable. IMO, the only reason to run the 6S8G is that you might be able to find a black-glass, round-plate Tung-Sol for less money than the comparable 6F8G or 6SN7. That said, a BGRP Tung-Sol 12SN7 can also be found inexpensively and it sounds better.

Again, IMO, other brands of 6CF8, such as RCA and Sylvania are not worth getting...


----------



## yates7592

Would somebody be able to list the relative gain attributes of the common GOTL power tubes, say 6BX7, 6BL7, 6080, 6AS7, 6336, 5998? I assume it depends on the driver used; but given the same driver is it possible to place these in order of increasing gain please?


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> I decided to go with the GOTL. I think that’ll be the best option for the Auteurs and my HD650s. The rest is deciding on options/upgrades.



Ha!  You are at the fun part...options & upgrades !

Congrats on your purchase.


----------



## gibosi

yates7592 said:


> Would somebody be able to list the relative gain attributes of the common GOTL power tubes, say 6BX7, 6BL7, 6080, 6AS7, 6336, 5998? I assume it depends on the driver used; but given the same driver is it possible to place these in order of increasing gain please?



Rather, I think it would be better to show you how to find out for yourself. 

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheetsA.html

Examine the datasheet for each of these tubes. The value you are looking for is typically called "amplification factor".

For example, RCA's datasheet for the 6BL7:

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/049/6/6BL7GT.pdf

And in the middle of the first page, "Amplification factor  15"


----------



## yates7592

gibosi said:


> Rather, I think it would be better to show you how to find out for yourself.
> 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/sheetsA.html
> 
> ...



Perfect, thanks!


----------



## yates7592

Goodness me, amplification factor for 6080/6AS7 = 1.5-2.5 and for 6BX7/6BL7 = 10-15. So this amplification factor relation to gain is not linear (right?), it must be logarithmic or exponential??


----------



## JazzVinyl

yates7592 said:


> Goodness me, amplification factor for 6080/6AS7 = 1.5-2.5 and for 6BX7/6BL7 = 10-15. So this amplification factor relation to gain is not linear (right?), it must be logarithmic or exponential??



Most of the amplification occurs in the driver stage.  At the powers stage, current is added, to drive the miniature speakers that are inside your headphones.

Amplification factor is not as pronounced, at the powers stage.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I'm using c3g and 6xb7 now and and there's no doubt it's one of my fav tube combination. Next would be ECC33 and 5998s.
> 
> @Phantaminum if the decision gets too hard on which configuration, just get what I have.



I do like the layout of your amp, UT.  The C3g's then power tubes laid out like the terracotta army:





Also the high MU of C3g mating well with lower gain factor of 6BX...vs 6BL...makes perfect sense.

Cheers!


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I've used the 6C8G as a driver in the GOTL, even though it has an amplification factor of 36, which is pretty high. But then, the nice thing about the GOTL is you can plug almost anything into the driver socket and it sounds fine.
> 
> But of course, a 6F8G or 6SN7 with an amplification factor of 20 is preferable. IMO, the only reason to run the 6S8G is that you might be able to find a black-glass, round-plate Tung-Sol for less money than the comparable 6F8G or 6SN7. That said, a BGRP Tung-Sol 12SN7 can also be found inexpensively and it sounds better.
> 
> Again, IMO, other brands of 6CF8, such as RCA and Sylvania are not worth getting...


Hi Gibosi,

Many thanks for your detailed information on these tubes. 
I am keeping my eyes out for TS 12SN7 BRP. Which other rebrands such as Cossor and Arcturus may be available?
Since you have tried so many different tubes, which are your favorite tube combinations? Maybe divide it up in two categories: Very rare and hard to find, and more common ones......


----------



## yates7592

Update: My baby is being held against her will at UK Customs for assessment of import charges.


----------



## 2359glenn

yates7592 said:


> Update: My baby is being held against her will at UK Customs for assessment of import charges.



Your kidding right.


----------



## 2359glenn

No your not kidding just looked it up.


----------



## yates7592

I always knew I would have to pay some taxes on this so I'm not surprised. Question is do they process it quickly or sit on it for a week. Either way it will be worth it.


----------



## 2359glenn

It shouldn't be or I get the shipping back. It is guaranteed to be there on Tuesday.     Assholes !!!!!!!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

yates7592 said:


> I always knew I would have to pay some taxes on this so I'm not surprised. Question is do they process it quickly or sit on it for a week. Either way it will be worth it.



Probably just normal procedure.  And like you, hope they don't drag their feet...


----------



## rnros

Thanks to @UntilThen, @Hansotek and others who recommended ECC31. Beautiful tube!
After some reasonable burn time has settled down to become competition for the C3g. Didn't expect that.
Slightly different tonal balance than the C3g, but equally natural, dynamic, clean and resolved.
Competitive soundstage, may even surpass the C3g in the low end ambient cues.
Still early, 30 hours, but right now with the Cetron 6336Bs, outstanding.


----------



## JazzVinyl

rnros said:


> Thanks to @UntilThen, @Hansotek and others who recommended ECC31. Beautiful tube!
> After some reasonable burn time has settled down to become competition for the C3g. Didn't expect that.
> Slightly different tonal balance than the C3g, but equally natural, dynamic, clean and resolved.
> Competitive soundstage, may even surpass the C3g in the low end ambient cues.
> Still early, 30 hours, but right now with the Cetron 6336Bs, outstanding.



Hello mros...

In amps I have heard the ECC31 in...I found it quite different than the C3g, but very enjoyable.  Bigger, heavier bass and relaxed, but spacious mids.  A fun tube indeed,

Enjoy!!


----------



## Hansotek

rnros said:


> Thanks to @UntilThen, @Hansotek and others who recommended ECC31. Beautiful tube!
> After some reasonable burn time has settled down to become competition for the C3g. Didn't expect that.
> Slightly different tonal balance than the C3g, but equally natural, dynamic, clean and resolved.
> Competitive soundstage, may even surpass the C3g in the low end ambient cues.
> Still early, 30 hours, but right now with the Cetron 6336Bs, outstanding.



Very nice! Yeah, I love the warm and dynamic sound of those. They’re a little more forgiving than the C3G if you have a brighter rectifier or power tubes... gives you a lot of rolling flexibility if you have both, IMO.


----------



## gibosi (Feb 25, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi Gibosi,
> 
> Many thanks for your detailed information on these tubes.
> I am keeping my eyes out for TS 12SN7 BRP. Which other rebrands such as Cossor and Arcturus may be available?
> Since you have tried so many different tubes, which are your favorite tube combinations? Maybe divide it up in two categories: Very rare and hard to find, and more common ones......



I think I should emphasize that I am much more of a tube collector than an audiophile. For me, the real thrill is discovering and trying new tubes. So while it may well be true that I have rolled more tubes in the GOTL than anyone else, I tend to operate too far out on the fringe to be able to make any general recommendations. For example, my current configuration includes 4-volt rectifiers and 2.5-volt triodes, but unless someone really enjoys tube rolling, I would not encourage them to go down this road....

That said, I would guess that your favorite combinations in the Elise will be among your favorite combinations in the GOTL. If I am correct in thinking that your GOTL will use 5-volt rectifiers, that will be the biggest change. But Dubstep Girl has put together a wonderful review to get you started:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/

Now it is also true that I have been known to offer some suggestions. But often, being a tube roller, my suggestions are motivated more out of my own vicarious curiosity than anything else. For example, given that the Philips EL3N was manufactured by WIRAG in Vienna, Austria, I recently suggested to Whirlwind that he might want to try a WIRAG AZ12 rectifier. However, as usual, he very politely ignored my suggestion by telling me that he will look into it. lol


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Thanks to @UntilThen, @Hansotek and others who recommended ECC31. Beautiful tube!
> After some reasonable burn time has settled down to become competition for the C3g. Didn't expect that.
> Slightly different tonal balance than the C3g, but equally natural, dynamic, clean and resolved.
> Competitive soundstage, may even surpass the C3g in the low end ambient cues.
> Still early, 30 hours, but right now with the Cetron 6336Bs, outstanding.



Glad you like ECC31. You should try ECC33 later.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Feb 25, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Glad you like ECC31. You should try ECC33 later.



Too bad the ECC33's are so hard to find, these days.  You are fortunate to have one, UT....


----------



## UntilThen

Stavros has some ECC33 for sale in the for sale section. Message him.


----------



## UntilThen

I tried the new Audio Technica ADX5000 on my OTL amp. First thought is that it sounds similar to HD800 where resolution and details are concerned.

I prefer HD800 though.


----------



## UntilThen

I still get the odd question on what tubes to get for the OTL amp. If you're asking me, be prepared to open up your wallet because most of these tubes are expensive. 

But hey if you're getting the GOTL, it deserves the best tubes.

Drivers.
L to R - C3g, Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, Tung Sol 6F8G, ECC31, GEC B36, Marconi B36, Ken Rad 1633. 
In addition, I'll also include FDD20, ECC33. Possibly ECC35 and ECC32 but I haven't heard these yet and have no intention of spending more on tubes.

 

Powers.
L to R - Tung Sol 5998, GEC 6as7g, Los Gatos 6BX7gt, Bendix 6080wb slotted graphite plates, GEC 6080, Cetron 6336B graphite plates.
 

If you're cost conscious, look no further than C3g and 6 x 6BX7gt or 6BL7gt. This combination is the most gripping, tantalising of the lot. Dynamic, vibrant, powerful and explosive. Get a few of these different tubes though because GOTL is like a chameleon. You'll be intrigued with the many different, subtle tones you can get out of it. Enjoy !


----------



## yates7592

Matt, would you say that drivers have more influence on SQ than powers?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I still get the odd question on what tubes to get for the OTL amp. If you're asking me, be prepared to open up your wallet because most of these tubes are expensive.
> 
> But hey if you're getting the GOTL, it deserves the best tubes.
> 
> ...



You can get good sound with a 1633 $4 and two 6H13 at $6 each.


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> Matt, would you say that drivers have more influence on SQ than powers?



I would say both drivers and power tubes play an equally important role. You find a combination to your liking and it can make a big difference. 

I use to think that power tubes makes a bigger difference. That's because I got all the good power tubes first. Then I started getting the better drivers. Now I'm more inclined to say that drivers makes a bigger difference. Especially with the drivers I now have.


----------



## 2359glenn

I think the driver has more effect on the SQ and yes high quality output tubes will make it sound better.
But the amp can have great sound with cheep tubes.
Not everybody can afford GEC6AS7s.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I think I should emphasize that I am much more of a tube collector than an audiophile. For me, the real thrill is discovering and trying new tubes. So while it may well be true that I have rolled more tubes in the GOTL than anyone else, I tend to operate too far out on the fringe to be able to make any general recommendations. For example, my current configuration includes 4-volt rectifiers and 2.5-volt triodes, but unless someone really enjoys tube rolling, I would not encourage them to go down this road....
> 
> That said, I would guess that your favorite combinations in the Elise will be among your favorite combinations in the GOTL. If I am correct in thinking that your GOTL will use 5-volt rectifiers, that will be the biggest change. But Dubstep Girl has put together a wonderful review to get you started:
> 
> ...



Ha!  To little money and too many tubes, headphones to try   






UntilThen said:


> I would say both drivers and power tubes play an equally important role. You find a combination to your liking and it can make a big difference.
> 
> I use to think that power tubes makes a bigger difference. That's because I got all the good power tubes first. Then I started getting the better drivers. Now I'm more inclined to say that drivers makes a bigger difference. Especially with the drivers I now have.



Yeah, I got to the point where I would leave the 5998 tubes in for powers...then roll in a different driver every couple of weeks....this can take months 
Then roll power tubes and start the process over....for me it was a lot easier way to hunt for my favorite tone and to keep my head straight....instead of rolling powers and drivers at the same time.
Not that it really matters....but it seemed much easier for me to keep up with the sound...by rolling drivers and power tubes together, it is much harder to tell what is making the most change in the sound.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, I got to the point where I would leave the 5998 tubes in for powers...then roll in a different driver every couple of weeks....this can take months
> Then roll power tubes and start the process over....for me it was a lot easier way to hunt for my favorite tone and to keep my head straight....instead of rolling powers and drivers at the same time.
> Not that it really matters....but it seemed much easier for me to keep up with the sound...by rolling drivers and power tubes together, it is much harder to tell what is making the most change in the sound.



This is my practice as well. I am currently rolling through 27's and I keep the rectifier and output tubes the same in order to help me understand the sound of the different makes and how they compare.

A few more to try... lol


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> This is my practice as well. I am currently rolling through 27's and I keep the rectifier and output tubes the same in order to help me understand the sound of the different makes and how they compare.
> 
> A few more to try... lol



Wow...g...!!!   

Hope there is a help group, for this addiction!


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Wow...g...!!!
> 
> Hope there is a help group, for this addiction!



I've not found a local chapter of Tube-Aholics Anonymous (TAA)... So it would seem there is no help for me...  lol


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> I've not found a local chapter of Tube-Aholics Anonymous (TAA)... So it would seem there is no help for me...  lol



I count fifty four #27 tubes!!!  More on the way?


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> I count fifty four #27 tubes!!!  More on the way?



Yes... lol 

Given that on average more than 50% of the 27's I get are too noisy, I am always on the look-out for more. That said, I buy them cheap, typically about $3 each, so it's not too crazy... 

So for example, I have five Ratheon 27s, and still don't have a quiet pair... And then there are the rarer off-the-wall brands. Here is a Sparton 427, manufactured by the Sparks-Withington company located in Jackson, Michigan. I have only this one so I have been looking for more. Finally found one and it is one its way to me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

They are great looking (and you and Glenn say great sounding) tubes.

Which brand has had the most that were quiet?


----------



## mordy

Now, if you find a quiet pair, how do they sound?


----------



## mordy (Feb 26, 2018)

mordy said:


> Now, if you find a quiet pair, how do they sound?


Sparton made gorgeous tube radios in the 30's. Here is a Peach Mirror tube radio from 1936:






It can be yours for a little more than a fully optioned GOTL....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sparton-56...471355?hash=item41dbeac8bb:g:vPMAAOSwNURak4s5


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> They are great looking (and you and Glenn say great sounding) tubes.
> 
> Which brand has had the most that were quiet?



I have had the best luck with Westinghouse 27's. Most of them are quiet.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Wow...g...!!!
> 
> Hope there is a help group, for this addiction!


Getting the Glenn 300B cured mine. The 300B's are too expensive to roll and the other tubes sound about the same as long as they are in decent shape.


----------



## gibosi (Feb 26, 2018)

mordy said:


> Now, if you find a quiet pair, how do they sound?



I find most of the 27's to sound very good. But then, these tubes were designed to be audio amplifiers. They were not designed to be RF amplifiers, video amplifiers or radar amplifiers. So maybe it isn't surprising that they do indeed "sound" good. Further, I think the mesh plate versions sound the best. And perhaps it is because mesh plates, as opposed to pressed sheet-metal plates, add less audio frequency harmonic distortion. That is, the treble seem to be a bit smoother to my ears.

On the other hand, as I have said before, for me the real thrill is in finding and trying new tubes. And the thrill and excitement I am experiencing may well influence my perception of their sound. Maybe they really aren't as good as I think they are. At some point in time, I would like to compare the 27s with more standard OTL drivers. For example, a pair of Sylvania 27 and a Sylvania 6SN7W. But for now, I am currently totally preoccupied with trying new 27s.

Too many tubes... not enough time...

And I am having blast!


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> Getting the Glenn 300B cured mine. The 300B's are too expensive to roll and the other tubes sound about the same as long as they are in decent shape.



+1. And there aren't that many 300Bs that are worth having. Taks / EML / WE300B re-issue. My EATs are decent and I hear good things about the KR Audio. Not much else. Elrogs have better reliability than before and have some unique sonic qualities, but have an overall bright character that I don't like.

Had several Chinese sourced 300Bs and that has never ended well for me. I really don't recommend putting them in your Glenn amp and risking a fireworks display if they go bad.

With the WA5 and WA6 I went on a 6SN7/6C8G/6F8G tube rolling frenzy. Tried most of the NOS options except for the very expensive rarities (e.g. Mullard). Only 2 cut the mustard - TSRP (Tung-Sol Round Plate) and NU (National Union - also in a round plate version). I have a stash of these tubes JAN NIB in 6C8G/6F8G from 1944/1945. TSRP is the great all rounder tube - king of them all to my ears. The NU is not quite as technically proficient, but has a wonderful sweetness to the sound. Magic with female vocals. All the rest I would rate "meh" (understanding that I have not heard the Mullard).

Tried almost all the new production 6SN7s - so far they have been ultra-bright rubbish. How hard is it to check a new design for FR? Maybe one day EML will make a 6SN7. Until then the Shuguang WE6SN7 is about the best new production 6SN7 I heave heard. Keep in mind that this tube is not much, if at all, better than the 6C8G RCAs that I bought for $50 USD per box of 25 about 4 years ago. For less than the price of a pair of WE6SN7s I bought 50+ RCA 6C8Gs that perform just as well and will likely last longer.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I still get the odd question on what tubes to get for the OTL amp. If you're asking me, be prepared to open up your wallet because most of these tubes are expensive.



Umm,yup.

When you were giving me advice on the 339 tubes I called both of my dealers and asked for the recommendations you gave....Neither had 95% of what you suggested.Both were to track down some tubes on that list and call me back...over a month later havent heard from either.

Perhaps we can get some reputable tube dealer suggestions in this thread? The guys I know of dont seem to carry the "good stuff".


----------



## wazzupi

Daanish said:


> Just sent Glenn my deposit for an OTL! Many thanks to everyone who has helped with their thoughts and feedback (and dealt with my noob questions!). With my ZMF Auteurs on the way I am hoping I am somewhat close to endgame


I have a pair of auteur Blackwood and i was hoping to maybe look at a similar design to yours i currently own the la Figaro 339 and ive been contemplating a Glenn otl amp any suggestions ? Ps please if anyone would like to chip in please do I havent decided on my 2nd headphone either but itll be something along the lines of hd800 or eikon. My amp budget is 1300.

PS what dac are you guys pairing with the Glenn otl amp


----------



## Monsterzero

wazzupi said:


> I have a pair of auteur Blackwood and i was hoping to maybe look at a similar design to yours i currently own the la Figaro 339 and ive been contemplating a Glenn otl amp any suggestions ? Ps please if anyone would like to chip in please do I havent decided on my 2nd headphone either but itll be something along the lines of hd800 or eikon. My amp budget is 1300.
> 
> PS what dac are you guys pairing with the Glenn otl amp



My brother emailed me the other day asking if he should place an order for a GOTL to go with his Auteurs too...Seems to be a growing club.


----------



## wazzupi

Phantaminum said:


> Must resist selling current gear to grab a Glenn amp for the Auteur.


You haven't bought one yet ?


----------



## Phantaminum

wazzupi said:


> You haven't bought one yet ?



I’ve been talking to Glenn about the options and what type of amp he recommends. I’ve sent him a PM to add all of the options to the GOTL. The last bit is the payment. Once I have that then it’s finalized.


----------



## wazzupi

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve been talking to Glenn about the options and what type of amp he recommends. I’ve sent him a PM to add all of the options to the GOTL. The last bit is the payment. Once I have that then it’s finalized.


Lol XD let us know what you picked in the end.


----------



## Redmetal1897 (Feb 26, 2018)

wazzupi said:


> I have a pair of auteur Blackwood and i was hoping to maybe look at a similar design to yours i currently own the la Figaro 339 and ive been contemplating a Glenn otl amp any suggestions ? Ps please if anyone would like to chip in please do I havent decided on my 2nd headphone either but itll be something along the lines of hd800 or eikon. My amp budget is 1300.
> 
> PS what dac are you guys pairing with the Glenn otl amp



Hey man, I don't expect to receive my amp till mid/end of march so can't give you any impressions for now, but my configuration was below your budget  (~$1100) and seems to offer a decent amount of tube rolling flexibility. Those who have the auteur and the OTL in this thread have commented very favorably on the pairing.

Current DAC's are the Modi 2 Uber and the the Chord Mojo. I may move on from the Modi 2 because I find the sound a bit tinny.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Umm,yup.
> 
> When you were giving me advice on the 339 tubes I called both of my dealers and asked for the recommendations you gave....Neither had 95% of what you suggested.Both were to track down some tubes on that list and call me back...over a month later havent heard from either.
> 
> Perhaps we can get some reputable tube dealer suggestions in this thread? The guys I know of dont seem to carry the "good stuff".



The very good tubes are expensive and hard to find now. I found mine on ebay. Stavros did provide some of the rare ones. He was extremely kind. It took me a long time and I wasn't particularly hunting for them. If it shows up and I feel I'm ready to commit to the price asked for, then I buy it. 

There's a steep diminishing returns now on buying those expensive tubes but that applies to any tubes. The cheap tubes can also sound good but if you are picky, you can find better - at a cost and patience.


----------



## Hansotek

wazzupi said:


> I have a pair of auteur Blackwood and i was hoping to maybe look at a similar design to yours i currently own the la Figaro 339 and ive been contemplating a Glenn otl amp any suggestions ? Ps please if anyone would like to chip in please do I havent decided on my 2nd headphone either but itll be something along the lines of hd800 or eikon. My amp budget is 1300.
> 
> PS what dac are you guys pairing with the Glenn otl amp



I'm listening to the GOTL and Auteur Blackwood right now. The synergy is definitely top notch. For that budget, keeping in mind the headphones you are pairing, I'd probably get the six 6BL7 sockets, a switch to go between a 6SN7 driver and the C3G sockets (however that works) and the Lundahl transformer - maybe add a HEXFRED solid state adaptor and/or some preamp outs if there's any budget left. IMHO, YMMV, etc.

For the Blackwood Auteur, my favorite rolls so far have been:

Roll 1: C3 drivers, Miniwatt rectifier, (four or six) 6BX7/6BL7 power tubes - this roll give you a slightly warm to neutral sound with great imaging and a huge stage.

Roll 2: ECC31 driver, RCA 5AW4 rectifier, Raytheon 6336 power tubes - with roll gives you a warmer sound with explosive bass an nice depth.

Food for thought anyway, gives you a starting point for more questions at least.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 26, 2018)

gibosi said:


> This is my practice as well. I am currently rolling through 27's and I keep the rectifier and output tubes the same in order to help me understand the sound of the different makes and how they compare.
> 
> A few more to try... lol



Someone has been busy sanding  

I briefly talked to Glenn about a preamp once and the 27 tubes came up in discussion.
This has been some time ago.






QUOTE="Monsterzero, post: 14069431, member: 374428"]Umm,yup.

When you were giving me advice on the 339 tubes I called both of my dealers and asked for the recommendations you gave....Neither had 95% of what you suggested.Both were to track down some tubes on that list and call me back...over a month later havent heard from either.

Perhaps we can get some reputable tube dealer suggestions in this thread? The guys I know of dont seem to carry the "good stuff".[/QUOTE]





Some of these harder to find really good tubes cost a pretty good amount of cash.

No fear, the 6BL7/6BX7 and C3g will get you there and you will not lose any body parts!

Other tubes sound wonderful, no doubt...but the wallet also takes a hit, compared to what you pay for 6BL7/6BX7 .

Being you only need one driver tube....deals can be found here.  The 6/12/25 volt driver option is the bomb !


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> No fear, the 6BL7/6BX7 and C3g will get you there and you will not lose any body parts!
> Other tubes sound wonderful, no doubt...but the wallet also takes a hit, compared to what you pay for 6BL7/6BX7 .
> Being you only need one driver tube....deals can be found here.  The 6/12/25 volt driver option is the bomb !



But, he will need a pair of C3g's...right?

I love the idea of inexpensive 12 and 25 volt drivers....much cheaper because most amps cannot run them.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> But, he will need a pair of C3g's...right?
> 
> I love the idea of inexpensive 12 and 25 volt drivers....much cheaper because most amps cannot run them.



I know I asked before, but did not get an answer. The 12SX7 tube is supposedly a good sounding tube - did anybody try it?


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Someone has been busy sanding



Ha! 54 tubes times 5 pins per tube... So yes, I am in the process of vigorously sanding 270 pins... It might take me several months... lol


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I know I asked before, but did not get an answer. The 12SX7 tube is supposedly a good sounding tube - did anybody try it?



It's my impression that the 12SX7 designation was a simple marketing ploy. Maybe I am wrong, but since it seems to me that that is simply an RCA 12SN7 with a fancier name, it's not on my want list....


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Ha! 54 tubes times 5 pins per tube... So yes, I am in the process of vigorously sanding 270 pins... It might take me several months... lol



Use a Dremel tool with a wire wheel works Quick


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I know I asked before, but did not get an answer. The 12SX7 tube is supposedly a good sounding tube - did anybody try it?



Have not tried it.  Supposed to have been a lower microphonic version of a 12SN7.  The "S" may also have designated "Spiral" wound filament, which is said to have lower noise than straight filament wires.

@myphone commented on their use in Euphoria, here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...sheeps-clothing.831743/page-252#post-13652575


----------



## Oskari (Feb 26, 2018)

John Atwood about the 12SX7 in _The 6SN7GT – the best general-purpose dual triode?_


> Several variations of the 6SN7GT were developed by RCA. A 12 volt heater version, the 12SN7GT came out in 1941 and permitted use in 12 volt vehicles and in 0.3A series-string sets. This was later upgraded to the 12SN7GTA, to match the power dissipation increase in the 6SN7GTA. Some mobile and aircraft radios during the war were designed to be run with a plate supply of 28 volts, eliminating the need for a dynamotor or vibrator high-voltage supply. However, conventional tubes behaved erratically at this low voltage. In 1946, the 12SX7GT was introduced as part of a series designed for 28 volt supplies. These were the same design as the conventional types, but were specially processed and tested for low-voltage operation.


----------



## gibosi

Oskari said:


> John Atwood about the 12SX7 in _The 6SN7GT – the best general-purpose dual triode?_



As always, thanks for your research and sharp eyes! 

But with a B+ of 240VDC in the GOTL, I am quite sure that the ability to operate on a 28VDC supply is of no benefit. So again, I am not sufficiently convinced that it is going to sound significantly different than a normal RCA 12SX7 in the Glenn. But of course, if someone here decides to get one and then compares it with a standard RCA 12SN7 manufactured at about the same time, please tell us your impressions.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Use a Dremel tool with a wire wheel works Quick



Thanks for the suggestion.. I have a dremel, but don't know if I have a wire wheel... Will check tomorrow.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Oskari said:


> John Atwood about the 12SX7 in _The 6SN7GT – the best general-purpose dual triode?_



This site: http://www.fourwater.com/files/hist6sn7.txt
Has a different take on the 12SX7:

A 12 volt version of the 6SN7 was also created for use in
systems that used 12 volt supplies for the heaters.
Both the 6SN7 and 12SN7 became very popular tubes in
many different systems, including radios, TVs and amplifiers.
Amplifiers in particular called for a better 6SN7 with less
microphonics. The 12SX7 tube was created to fill the demand,
but it never really caught on because of the increased cost
of the tube.


----------



## Oskari

Ludwell Sibley in _Tube Lore_:


> 12SX7GT: duotriode, version of 12SN7GT for operation from aircraft DC power


----------



## gibosi (Feb 26, 2018)

Sibley's book, and Tyne's  _Saga of the Vacuum Tube_, are probably the best two books out there on this subject. Sibley knows his stuff. 

And yes, I have both of them in my collection.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> But with a B+ of 240VDC in the GOTL, I am quite sure that the ability to operate on a 28VDC supply is of no benefit. So again, I am not sufficiently convinced that it is going to sound significantly different than a normal RCA 12SX7 in the Glenn.


I don't disagree at all. 


gibosi said:


> Sibley's book, and Tyne's  _Saga of the Vacuum Tube_, are probably the best two books out there on this subject. Sibley knows his stuff.
> 
> And yes, I have both of them in my collection.


Well, guess what… 

P.S. BTW, FYI, there's also a Canadian version: JAN-CLRV-12SX7GT.


----------



## Hansotek

Okay dudes, riddle me this... I just got 4 RCA 6BX7 tubes - two are tall and two are short. 

I can pair the two tall ones together with no problem. I can run the short ones paired with a 6BL7 with no problem. But if I pair the short 6BX7s with another 6BX7 (tall or short), I get a loud buzzing sound- like you would hear when a disconnect cable is touching something. Any ideas?


----------



## myphone

JazzVinyl said:


> Have not tried it.  Supposed to have been a lower microphonic version of a 12SN7.  The "S" may also have designated "Spiral" wound filament, which is said to have lower noise than straight filament wires.
> 
> @myphone commented on their use in Euphoria, here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...sheeps-clothing.831743/page-252#post-13652575



There are many different versions of 12SX7GT, even within RCA. Just took pictures of 3 versions  made in 1961, 1960 and 1954. Different internal structure. 1954 version has spiral lead.


----------



## JazzVinyl

myphone said:


> There are many different versions of 12SX7GT, even within RCA. Just took pictures of 3 versions  made in 1961, 1960 and 1954. Different internal structure. 1954 version has spiral lead.



Very good, the spiral filament is confirmed. At least on the 1954 RCA.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hansotek said:


> Okay dudes, riddle me this... I just got 4 RCA 6BX7 tubes - two are tall and two are short.
> 
> I can pair the two tall ones together with no problem. I can run the short ones paired with a 6BL7 with no problem. But if I pair the short 6BX7s with another 6BX7 (tall or short), I get a loud buzzing sound- like you would hear when a disconnect cable is touching something. Any ideas?



I have had the oscillation problem you describe, running 6x 6BL7's in another amp.   One tube has a problem and does not play well with others.  I never did definitely figure out which tube was the culprit.  But swapping some for others always cured it.

I believe @whirlwind had a similar problem running 4x 6BL7's via adaptors, at one time.


----------



## myphone

JazzVinyl said:


> Very good, the spiral filament is confirmed. At least on the 1954 RCA.



1958 and 1959 made 12sx7 have spiral leads, and similar structure to 1954.

Have other brand 12sx7 as well as RCA ones that look just like regular 12sn7, grey glass 12sx7,


----------



## gibosi

Just to add a little perspective here, in the early 1930s, a number of manufacturers were incorporating spiral heaters in their 27s. So this style of construction was not new or unique to the 12SX7...


----------



## Oskari

JAN-CRC-6SN7GT with double-helical heater:


shiaokun said:


>


----------



## UntilThen (Feb 27, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> I have had the oscillation problem you describe, running 6x 6BL7's in another amp.   One tube has a problem and does not play well with others.  I never did definitely figure out which tube was the culprit.  But swapping some for others always cured it.
> 
> I believe @whirlwind had a similar problem running 4x 6BL7's via adaptors, at one time.



I have 2 sets of 6 x 6bx7 and 1 set of 6 x 6BL7. These are NOS and very quiet tubes.

I also have 4 old 6bl7 that are noisy.

Get your 6bx7 / 6bl7 now because good ones will be harder to find and price will go up.

Same goes for 6336 and c3g.


----------



## UntilThen

There's a consolation. You can still run with 1 6sn7 as driver and 6 6sn7 as power tubes. Not a bad tone at all and cheap 6sn7 are plentiful.


----------



## Hansotek

JazzVinyl said:


> I have had the oscillation problem you describe, running 6x 6BL7's in another amp.   One tube has a problem and does not play well with others.  I never did definitely figure out which tube was the culprit.  But swapping some for others always cured it.
> 
> I believe @whirlwind had a similar problem running 4x 6BL7's via adaptors, at one time.



Thanks. Grabbed a couple more tall ones. Looks like both of these short guys are returnable. Hopefully, these work better.


----------



## UntilThen

Yesterday Glenn talk about the RCA 1633 and Svetlana 6h13c power tubes sounding good. I've personally not tried this particular combo. I've used 6h13c with Brimar 13D1 driver but never with the RCA 1633 driver. Well I am trying it now.

For some of you, you will be getting the RCA 1633 driver from Glenn with your amp.

For my taste and hearing, I really like RCA 1633 with Svetlana 6h13c. The OTL amp has the uncanny ability to sound dynamic and clear with these cheap tubes. It's probably the best value tubes you can get your hands on for the OTL.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Just to add a little perspective here, in the early 1930s, a number of manufacturers were incorporating spiral heaters in their 27s. So this style of construction was not new or unique to the 12SX7...



Right-o, 

I recently bought a new Sovtek 12AX7LPS (Long Plate Spiral filament) for use in a phono preamp:

https://www.amazon.com/Sovtek-4308828238-12AX7LPS-Vacuum-Tube/dp/B0002M71VC


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> For my taste and hearing, I really like RCA 1633 with Svetlana 6h13c. The OTL amp has the uncanny ability to sound dynamic and clear with these cheap tubes. It's probably the best value tubes you can get your hands on for the OTL.



That's a great testament to one of Glenn's OTL design goals...to make the most of inexpensive tubes...


----------



## JazzVinyl

It is Tuesday....delivery day for  @yates7592  !!


----------



## Oskari

Oskari said:


> P.S. BTW, FYI, there's also a Canadian version: JAN-CLRV-12SX7GT.



… or two: JAN-CQ-12SX7GT.

CLRV = RVC, CQ = Rogers.


----------



## yates7592

JazzVinyl said:


> It is Tuesday....delivery day for  @yates7592  !!



Unfortunately not, the box is still with Customs although I just checked tracking and at least now it has been assessed for charges so it should hit the depot tonight. I might fancy a drive out there tomorrow to pick it up!


----------



## Redmetal1897

UntilThen said:


> I have 2 sets of 6 x 6bx7 and 1 set of 6 x 6BL7. These are NOS and very quiet tubes.
> 
> I also have 4 old 6bl7 that are noisy.
> 
> ...



With regards to building my tube empire, is ebay generally the go to for these tubes? I've found these so far on ebay:

C3G:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-TUBE-PAIR...391481?hash=item3d5879f079:g:ETEAAOSw2gxY295k

6BL7:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/6BL7-RCA-VI...994747?hash=item3d4134f53b:g:FeYAAOSwY4pZZ5vW

6336:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/6336A-Rayth...192913?hash=item4d6c1b0911:g:s~MAAOSwogpaYloS

ECC31:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/MULLARD-ECC...413355?hash=item28323ae8eb:g:JZwAAOSwWxNYzij9

Man those ECC31's are pricey!


----------



## mordy

Daanish said:


> With regards to building my tube empire, is ebay generally the go to for these tubes? I've found these so far on ebay:
> 
> C3G:
> 
> ...


Hi Daanish,

When buying tubes it is good to know what the market value is. Then you need patience. The same tube that a professional seller wants $70 for, a private person may ask you to pay $12 for.
You have to look at feedback, and shipping costs as well.
Luckily, there is a simple eBay tool that tells you what the going prices are. 
Type in what you are looking for. When the items come up, click on the right top Sort - and choose: lowest price +shipping.
Now you will get a list in ascending order of prices.
Then go all the way to the left and look at the header: Categories.
Scroll down to almost the bottom of this column, and click on: sold listings. You will now see what items sold for in the last 60 days or so.
Re the C3g, it looks like this today:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...lete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684
Clicking on it, you will find a seller that sold four C3g tubes testing very good, for $69, including shipping.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-C3g-SIE...999069&hash=item48a8181fc4:g:jwMAAOSwKwVact4S

Re the C3g tubes, I personally would not worry if they are slightly used - they are good for 10,000 hours.
If I am just repeating stuff that you know, my apologies. (But I thought that $134 for a pair of C3gs shipped is too high)


----------



## UntilThen

Daanish said:


> With regards to building my tube empire, is ebay generally the go to for these tubes?



I bought most of my tubes on ebay. Mordy has given you the tips for purchase. With the ECC31, you only need a single tube.


----------



## Redmetal1897

mordy said:


> Hi Daanish,
> 
> When buying tubes it is good to know what the market value is. Then you need patience. The same tube that a professional seller wants $70 for, a private person may ask you to pay $12 for.
> You have to look at feedback, and shipping costs as well.
> ...



That's very helpful information, thank you! I haven't really used eBay in the past so good to know there is a way to track what things are selling for.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Daanish said:


> That's very helpful information, thank you! I haven't really used eBay in the past so good to know there is a way to track what things are selling for.



You can also save searches and receive an email when new items are listed.  Be patient!!  If your getting a GOTL w/milti-voltage SN7 socket, Glenn sends a nice 25 volt RCA 1633.   Just get yourself some inexpensive power tubes to start with.
6x of the 6BL7's (again, save your search, and be patient).  And maybe 2 or 4x of an inexpensive 6AS7 derivative...like this one:  https://www.parts-express.com/6as7ga-ge-jan-vacuum-tube--072-612


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> You can also save searches and receive an email when new items are listed.  Be patient!!  If your getting a GOTL w/milti-voltage SN7 socket, Glenn sends a nice 25 volt RCA 1633.   Just get yourself some inexpensive power tubes to start with.
> 6x of the 6BL7's (again, save your search, and be patient).  And maybe 2 or 4x of an inexpensive 6AS7 derivative...like this one:  https://www.parts-express.com/6as7ga-ge-jan-vacuum-tube--072-612




Great advice...patience is the key.  No need to grab them all at once....enjoy the journey.

Holy crap those ECC 31 prices have skyrocketed since I bought a pair


----------



## jekjek

JazzVinyl said:


> You can also save searches and receive an email when new items are listed.  Be patient!!  If your getting a GOTL w/milti-voltage SN7 socket, Glenn sends a nice 25 volt RCA 1633.   Just get yourself some inexpensive power tubes to start with.
> 6x of the 6BL7's (again, save your search, and be patient).  And maybe 2 or 4x of an inexpensive 6AS7 derivative...like this one:  https://www.parts-express.com/6as7ga-ge-jan-vacuum-tube--072-612



This is my favourite tubes on GOTL
Nice power tubes and cheep


----------



## JazzVinyl

jekjek said:


> This is my favourite tubes on GOTL
> Nice power tubes and cheep



Yes, I have a pair as well...and enjoy them combined with a pair of 6080's, too.


----------



## wazzupi (Feb 27, 2018)

Do you want just the HEXFRED rectifiers or a rectifier tube socket and a plug in HEXFRED adapter??

Which one is best


----------



## JazzVinyl

wazzupi said:


> Do you want just the HEXFRED rectifiers or a rectifier tube socket and a plug in HEXFRED adapter??
> 
> Which one is best



I opted for all Solid State rectifiers, no tube rectifier socket.  I just feel like a full wave bridge of solid state rectifiers offers a steadier supply of B+ no worries about sudden demands for more juice.

I am prejudiced against tube rectifiers due to an electronics teacher I had (long ago) who used to have us hook up tube rectified power supplies to an oscilloscope and watch them struggle to keep up when the circuit demanded more power.  Then we would repeat with all solid state rectifier power supplies, and you could see they had no problems when asked for more power.  My teacher was really down on tube rectification and *always* referred to them as "rectal flyers"  LOL....

His negative perception of them, has stuck with me, my whole life.


----------



## Hansotek

JazzVinyl said:


> I opted for all Solid State rectifiers, no tube rectifier socket.  I just feel like a full wave bridge of solid state rectifiers offers a steadier supply of B+ no worries about sudden demands for more juice.
> 
> I am prejudiced against tube rectifiers due to an electronics teacher I had (long ago) who used to have us hook up tube rectified power supplies to an oscilloscope and watch them struggle to keep up when the circuit demanded more power.  Then we would repeat with all solid state rectifier power supplies, and you could see they had no problems when asked for more power.  My teacher was really down on tube rectification and *always* referred to them as "rectal flyers"  LOL....
> 
> His negative perception of them, has stuck with me, my whole life.



I’m sure he probably let you guys plug in some pretty dope NOS rectifiers too. The real cream-of-the-crop.


----------



## Hansotek

Daanish said:


> With regards to building my tube empire, is ebay generally the go to for these tubes? I've found these so far on ebay:
> 
> C3G:
> 
> ...



I got my C3Gs from here, as it was about the same price and there is a return policy:
https://www.tubedepot.com/products/siemens-c3g-pentode

That’s a pair of ECC31s, you only need one, FYI.


----------



## wazzupi

Any counters to hexfred rectifier ?


----------



## Hansotek

wazzupi said:


> Any counters to hexfred rectifier ?



I like rolling tube rectifiers personally, but it can be an expensive thing. I think if you're putting a percentage on the effects of the tubes, the power tubes are about 50% of the tube sound, the drivers are 35-40% and the rectifiers are the last 10-15%. Of course, in any given scenario, with a particularly good or bad tube, it can shift the percentages a bit - these are just the extremes I've found going from worst tubes to best tubes in the given slots for reference, my given range with each tube for market pricing in the aforementioned test is $3 to $400 on the rectifier, about $20 to $400 on the power tubes and about $4 to $140 on the driver (a little more if you count the adaptors). 

FWIW, I think if you do go the tube route, you should have Glenn build you a plug-in solid state HEXFRED that you can roll as an option. I like the sound of a solid state rectifier, but I love to roll in something with more layering, an extra creamy midrange, a warmer/cooler tone, etc. at my leisure. I also really enjoy the flexibility of choosing between tube and solid state bass. IMO, tubey bass sounds more "in the room" with you, whereas solid state bass sounds more studio accurate.


----------



## gibosi

wazzupi said:


> Do you want just the HEXFRED rectifiers or a rectifier tube socket and a plug in HEXFRED adapter??
> 
> Which one is best



In my opinion, the rectifier socket and a plug-in HEXFRED is best: It gives you the best of both worlds, solid state and "hollow state".


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hansotek said:


> I’m sure he probably let you guys plug in some pretty dope NOS rectifiers too. The real cream-of-the-crop.




All tube rectifiers do exhibit the sag and are, in fact much slower to respond to a loads' demand for more power than SS.

I know many love thier tube rectifiers and love rolling them.   
More power to you.


----------



## Hansotek

JazzVinyl said:


> All tube rectifiers do exhibit the sag and are, in fact much slower to respond to a loads' demand for more power than SS.
> 
> I know many love thier tube rectifiers and love rolling them.
> More power to you.



I know, I was just being sassy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> In my opinion, the rectifier socket and a plug-in HEXFRED is best: It gives you the best of both worlds, solid state and "hollow state".



Indeed, Glenn lets you cover all the bases.  

And I love "hollow state" g....LOL


----------



## UntilThen

These are the reasons I went with HEXFRED and I have absolutely no regrets.

Quotes from some of the people on the thread.

RossLiew
Hexfreds are solid state rectifiers - absolute zero voltage drop meaning it's very linear and you get a more transparent , solid state control of the frequencies. I loved my old amps with the hexfreds. So much so that I hardly rolled their tubed cousins when I had them.

Glenn
The HEXFRED has a lower voltage drop and can handle much more current then any tube rectifier.
A 5U4GB can handle 270ma a PY500 is 400ma the HXFREDS are 6amp or 6000ma.
The HEXFREDS might be better with the 6336 that are high current tubes.

Xcalibur255
Once I got used to the HEXFREDs I found it was literally impossible to go back to tube rectification. The amp quite simply doesn't sound as good with the tubes doing that duty. There really is no downside to the HEXFREDs in my mind, unless you simply cannot let go of some of your tube glow. But I'm here to listen to my amp, not stare at it. I was very worried that the amp would lose tone color or sound "whitewashed" with the SS components, but not only did this not happen I found an improvement in this area in addition to the obvious gains in resolution and bass performance.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 28, 2018)

gibosi said:


> In my opinion, the rectifier socket and a plug-in HEXFRED is best: It gives you the best of both worlds, solid state and "hollow state".



This will give you the most options and as you say....best of both worlds.

I will be sticking with the 42EC4/PY500 option in the OTL though.

Love rolling 4 and 5 volt rectifiers in the EL3N amp.

If my Dad was living he would kick my butt for getting SS rectification in my tube amp     J/K
He got me totally hooked on tubes


----------



## Redmetal1897 (Feb 28, 2018)

See the arguments for both, is there any real downside performance wise to having the plug in hexfred vs. having it built in? I.e. does the built in SS perform better than the plug in? Or should they by and large be the same.


----------



## gibosi

They should by and large be the same. The only difference I can think of is B+. If Glenn designs the amp around his preferred 5-volt rectifier, the 3DG4, he factors in the voltage drop (17 volts) to arrive at 240VDC for B+. And therefore, if you use a plug-in HEXFRED, with a voltage drop of only one volt, B+ will be 16 volts higher, 256VDC. One might describe this as "negative sag". lol  On the other hand, if Glenn designs an amp around the HEXFRED, he will adjust the circuit to provide a B+ of 240VDC. I seriously doubt that there is any sonic difference due to these slightly different values of B+. But you might want to ask Glenn directly...


----------



## leftside

Good points gobosi. I wanted my amp designed around a tube rectifier, but the best of both worlds is probably to have the amp designed around the tube rectifier, and also have the option of a HEXFRED with adapter. Having both options was fun to play around with on my WA22.


----------



## 2359glenn

yates7592 said:


> Unfortunately not, the box is still with Customs although I just checked tracking and at least now it has been assessed for charges so it should hit the depot tonight. I might fancy a drive out there tomorrow to pick it up!



I see you got the amp this morning.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> I see you got the amp this morning.


Happy days @yates7592 ! Let the rolling begins!


----------



## wazzupi

I can't decide on HEXFRED OR TUBE AHHHHHHHH


----------



## Monsterzero

wazzupi said:


> I can't decide on HEXFRED OR TUBE AHHHHHHHH



Get it like the one im getting,where you can swap it back and forth.


----------



## wazzupi

Monsterzero said:


> Get it like the one im getting,where you can swap it back and forth.


but it takes power away from the other tubes if you do that. with the adapter right ?


----------



## gibosi

The HEXFRED doesn't take power away from the other tubes. SS rectifiers don't have heaters....


----------



## gibosi (Feb 28, 2018)

But if you order your OTL with Lundahl transformers, then yes, using 5-volt tube rectifiers will reduce the amount of heater current available to the other tubes.

This is not the case with the original transformer as in my OTL.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Folks are probably a little confused....

Tubes require low voltages at higher currents to power the heaters (filaments)
and
High DC voltages at very low currents to send to the plates (AKA anodes)

Usually AC is sent to heaters, DC to the plates.  2 different circuits, rectifiers turn AC into DC so they only power the low current demands for the plates.

Only the 6336 power tubes demand enough plate current to potentially benefit from SS vs Tube rectification...

Hope that is helpful?


----------



## wazzupi

so is the best classic setup USA Transformer with all the fixing for the sockets the best choice for value ?


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> so is the best classic setup USA Transformer with all the fixing for the sockets the best choice for value ?


The US transformer is cheaper, and the Swedish Lundahl is quieter.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I thought the Lundahl was the defacto standard, these days.....?


----------



## gibosi (Feb 28, 2018)

If you want maximum flexibility to roll rectifiers, output tubes and drivers, then the USA transformer is the best. However, you will also have to accept more transformer noise and hum.

If you want a quieter amp, then you will have to to accept that there are some tube combinations that require more current than the Lundahl can provide. For example, I am quite sure that a pair of 6336 drawing 10 amps and an ECC31 drawing 1 amp plus a rectifier drawing 2 amps is too much. In that case, you should use the HEXFRED plugin and then you will be fine.

So again, on the one hand, you have cheap and flexible and noisy.... And on the other, expensive, quiet but somewhat limited in terms of 5-volt rectifiers.

And I should say that I have the USA transformer and no reqrets.


----------



## JazzVinyl

G...USA transformer has 20 amps available and the Lundhal, 13...?


----------



## gibosi

The US transformer has two windings, 11 - 12 amps for drivers and outputs and 5 amps for the rectifier. The Lundahl has one winding for everything, about 13 amps. But I am not sure....


----------



## rnros

Glenn actually responded to this question of current capability for the Lundahl transformer previously.
Here's the question and answer:



rnros said:


> Glenn, a question about the total amp draw on the Lundahl/GOTL, you noted recently that the max was 13 amps.
> However, with the 6336Bs @ 5A each, and a typical rectifier like the GZ37 @ 2.8A, or the 596/1641 @ 3A, that is already 12.8A or 13A, so adding the driver/s exceeds the 13A max.
> Have been using the GOTL for weeks that way with no apparent problem, assuming this falls within the design margin of safety for the trans?
> Have also used the 5CU4 and 5AW4, which adds another .5A or .7A, should I stay away from those when using the 6336Bs?





2359glenn said:


> It is a 250 VA transformer so going slightly over is not going to matter much.
> The 5CU4 and 5AW4 are good rectifiers to use with the 6336 to supply the high
> current these tubes draw.



Have been enjoying the ECC31 with the Cetron 6336Bs and various rectifiers at +/- 3A for days, no issues at all.
Prior to the ECC31, the C3g has been used more than any other driver, same selection of rectifiers, and that's only about 200 or 300mA less.
Amp runs quiet and sounds spectacular. No noticeable differences in sound or temperature.

After all, GOTL was designed to use six 6BX7 (9A) or four 6AS7/6080 (10A) or two 6336 (10A).
Along with the C3g and the various 5V rectifiers Glenn recommends. 5AW4 is 3.7A and 5CU4 is 3.5A.


----------



## yates7592

2359glenn said:


> I see you got the amp this morning.



No, the amp is now at the delivery depot but they will keep it there until I pay the charges. I can't pay the charges until they send me a letter which is another few days. The other option is to drive an hour to the depot but weather's bad here at the moment. I will try later when the roads have been cleared.


----------



## UntilThen

Yates, a shame you had to pay charges. I have no charges to pay and the delivery was ultra fast and smooth.

Nevertheless, it will be all worth it. My Glenn Super 9 OTL amp just gets better and better as it nears the 3 months mark. Running with Tung Sol 6F8G and Cetron 6336b, it's as good as it gets.


----------



## 2359glenn

yates7592 said:


> No, the amp is now at the delivery depot but they will keep it there until I pay the charges. I can't pay the charges until they send me a letter which is another few days. The other option is to drive an hour to the depot but weather's bad here at the moment. I will try later when the roads have been cleared.



When I tracked it here it said it was delivered what BS. So you have to take a journey through snow to get it
or wait.
Only when FedEx is used do I get taxed and they deliver it then send me the bill.
The government got to get there screwing money!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> The US transformer has two windings, 11 - 12 amps for drivers and outputs and 5 amps for the rectifier. The Lundahl has one winding for everything, about 13 amps. But I am not sure....



13 amps is correct.


----------



## yates7592

gibosi said:


> If you want a quieter amp, then you will have to to accept that there are some tube combinations that require more current than the Lundahl can provide. For example, I am quite sure that a pair of 6336 drawing 10 amps and an ECC31 drawing 1 amp plus a rectifier drawing 2 amps is too much. In that case, you should use the HEXFRED plugin and then you will be fine.



This sounds like a very important principle I need to understand better. My amp will have 5V rectifier and Lundahl transformer. Could somebody please explain how I should assess various tube combinations for safety?


----------



## yates7592

UntilThen said:


> Yates, a shame you had to pay charges.


Yeah well somebody's got to pay for this self-inflicted disaster called Brexit.


----------



## gibosi

yates7592 said:


> This sounds like a very important principle I need to understand better. My amp will have 5V rectifier and Lundahl transformer. Could somebody please explain how I should assess various tube combinations for safety?



I had forgotten that Glenn had already replied to rnros about this. Even though the Lundahl transformer is rated for 13 amps, there is some extra headroom.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1248#post-14075307

So using 6336 at 10 amps, an ECC31 at 1 amp and a 5AW4 at 3.7 amps, for a total of almost 15 amps is not a problem. Nothing to worry about here.


----------



## JazzVinyl

yates7592 said:


> This sounds like a very important principle I need to understand better. My amp will have 5V rectifier and Lundahl transformer. Could somebody please explain how I should assess various tube combinations for safety?



As Gibosi explained, sounds like you will have no issues, even when using the tube rectifiers.

But in theory:
Look up tube data and see how much current the heaters (filaments) use and add them up.  Total for all tubes should be at or under your transformers rating.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 1, 2018)

OK,now im getting confused....
If im reading the comments correctly the standard transformer while being not as quiet has the capacity to deliver more amps.Does that equate to more volume?
And back to the noise floor issue,are we talking about a significant hum that enters the headphones,or more of an external noise,and how significant is the noise vs. Lundahl?

As a tube neophyte I really dont want to be bothered with having to do math prior to purchasing and rolling tubes,nor do I want my M.E.G.A. to go up in a haze of blue smoke because I failed to do simple math correctly.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> When I tracked it here it said it was delivered what BS. So you have to take a journey through snow to get it
> or wait.
> Only when FedEx is used do I get taxed and they deliver it then send me the bill.
> The government got to get there screwing money!!!!!!!!!!


I never pay the FedEx bill  They still ship to me.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> OK,now im getting confused....
> If im reading the comments correctly the standard transformer while being not as quiet has the capacity to deliver more amps.Does that equate to more volume?
> And back to the noise floor issue,are we talking about a significant hum that enters the headphones,or more of an external noise,and how significant is the noise vs. Lundahl?
> 
> As a tube neophyte I really dont want to be bothered with having to do math prior to purchasing and rolling tubes,nor do I want my M.E.G.A. to go up in a haze of blue smoke because I failed to do simple math correctly.



As long as you are rolling the same well-known tubes as most folks here, you will be fine. However, if you decide that you want to roll new tubes that no one else is using, then as leftside points out, you should check the datasheets beforehand, or ask here in the forum.

And no, providing more amps does not provide more volume. We are talking about the circuit that is used to heat tubes. And this circuit is completely separate from the circuit the actually runs the amp. But again, as long as you stay with well-known tubes, you can run anything you want with either transformer.

About noise...  I have never heard a Lundahl OTL, so I can't say how much quieter it is. But from the comments of Whirlwind and others, I am of the opinion that it is noticeably quieter. Moreover, given how much more these transformers cost, I have to assume that the results justify the price.

Also, sensitivity to noise is a subjective and personal experience. Fortunately, I am able to ignore it. Again, I equate it to attending a live concert and ignoring the crowd noises, people talking, paper rustling and so on. These crowd noises are not noticeable when the music is playing. But in between songs or during very quiet passages, it is there, and I have no trouble ignoring it. But of course there are some people that go nuts when they hear people talking during a concert....


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Lots of good info...



Appreciate your insight.I think I will stick with the Lundahls.Im not trying to re-invent the wheel with tube rolling.I will continue to rely on the advice given in this thread for winning tube combos.


----------



## 2359glenn

Let me try to clarify this transformer thing.
The US made transformer is custom made for this amp. It has 3 secondary winding's. One is high voltage 530 volts center taped or 265-0-265  
This is for a 2 diode bridge rectifier that most rectifier tubes are. And it is 15 volts over to compensate for the voltage drop in the tube.
It has a single 6.3 volt 13 amp secondary for all amplifier tubes.
And a 5 volt 5 amp secondary tapped at 3.3 volts for the 3DG4 rectifier and 5 volt rectifiers. This winding is specifically for the rectifier tube.

Lundahl transformer  Lundahl does not make custom transformers I have to use what they have. 
It has 5 winding's one 250 volt and 4 are 6.3 volt at 3.3 amp.
This transformer has to have a symmetrical load to put out low magnetic field. It has to have a 4 diode full wave bridge rectifier this is made 
for SS rectification. For me to use a tube rectifier I have to use a hybrid bridge rectifier. This is 2 SS HEXFRED rectifiers going to negative
and the other two is the tube going to positive. This takes on the sound signature of the tube.
The other 4 winding's are in parallel making 6.3 volts at 13.2 amps.
When using a tube rectifier I have to use one of these winding's and drop it to 5 volts with a resistor. This leaves only 3 winding's for the rest of
the tubes. This leaves 9.9 amps but the transformer is powerful and can take a little over current on the filament winding's. Mostly because
I am not even coming close to the rating of the high voltage winding.

When using a tube rectifier the USA transformer is best.

And the Lundahl transformer is best with SS rectifiers.


----------



## wazzupi

hmm n


2359glenn said:


> Let me try to clarify this transformer thing.
> The US made transformer is custom made for this amp. It has 3 secondary winding's. One is high voltage 530 volts center taped or 265-0-265
> This is for a 2 diode bridge rectifier that most rectifier tubes are. And it is 15 volts over to compensate for the voltage drop in the tube.
> It has a single 6.3 volt 13 amp secondary for all amplifier tubes.
> ...


So im guessing sound signature wias Lundahl ss still has that tube affect but  has less extremes ? Vs the USA transformer with tube rectifier


----------



## gibosi (Mar 1, 2018)

wazzupi said:


> hmm n
> 
> So im guessing sound signature wias Lundahl ss still has that tube affect but  has less extremes ? Vs the USA transformer with tube rectifier



One of the reasons that the HEXFRED rectifiers are so popular in the audio community is that they are thought to "sound" like tubes. I can say that in my amp, the HEXFRED sounds very similar to the Cossor 53KU and that is certainly not a bad thing.


----------



## wazzupi

gibosi said:


> One of the reasons that the HEXFRED rectifiers are so popular in the audio community is that they are thought to "sound" like tubes. I can say that in my amp, the HEXFRED sounds very similar to the Cossor 53KU and that is certainly not a bad thing.


That's basically what i am saying


----------



## MIKELAP

gibosi said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.. I have a dremel, but don't know if I have a wire wheel... Will check tomorrow.


What i found worked well with the dremel was those rubber conical bits but they dont really last long .Dont forget to wear safety glasses with that wire wheel .Safety first .use to be a Machinist sorry .


----------



## gibosi

I've cleaned ten tubes with the wire brush so far and it is working really well. But yes, I noticed that the buildup on the pins splattered on to my glasses. Will make sure I use safety glasses next time. Thanks!


----------



## 2359glenn (Mar 2, 2018)

New side contact sockets for EL3N tubes. Thanks to @rnros who told me about them.
they are Yamamoto the best I tried yet. All the other ones are crap tried NOS and Chinese ones
Have to jam the tube in then the contacts are loose.
The Yamamoto the tube slides in nice and it stays tight.
A little pricey about $150 for 4 of them + shipping from Germany but worth it.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> New side contact sockets for EL3N tubes. Thanks to @rnros who told me about them.
> they are Yamamoto the best I tried yet. All the other ones are crap tried NOS and Chinese ones
> Have to jam the tube in then the contacts are loose.
> The Yamamoto the tube slides in nice and it stays tight.
> A little pricey about $100 for 4 of them + shipping from Germany but worth it.




Very nice.


----------



## 2359glenn

Joe
These sockets are so good that it would be worth sending me your amp and replacing your sockets
with the Yamamoto sockets. The biggest problem and cost is shipping both ways.
All future EL3N amps will have the Yamamoto sockets


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> New side contact sockets for EL3N tubes. Thanks to @rnros who told me about them.
> they are Yamamoto the best I tried yet. All the other ones are crap tried NOS and Chinese ones
> Have to jam the tube in then the contacts are loose.
> The Yamamoto the tube slides in nice and it stays tight.
> A little pricey about $100 for 4 of them + shipping from Germany but worth it.



Looks great! Are they for my amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes I have 4 of them for your amp


----------



## raybone0566

2359glenn said:


> Joe
> These sockets are so good that it would be worth sending me your amp and replacing your sockets
> with the Yamamoto sockets. The biggest problem and cost is shipping both ways.
> All future EL3N amps will have the Yamamoto sockets


i
Glenn
I’d like to send mine back to you if that’s ok.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Joe
> These sockets are so good that it would be worth sending me your amp and replacing your sockets
> with the Yamamoto sockets. The biggest problem and cost is shipping both ways.
> All future EL3N amps will have the Yamamoto sockets



OK, Glenn.

I will box it up this weekend and send it your way.

Thanks


----------



## leftside

Perhaps there is a local tech in your area that can replace the tube sockets? I try and avoid shipping my audio gear if possible.


----------



## 2359glenn

raybone0566 said:


> i
> Glenn
> I’d like to send mine back to you if that’s ok.



OK more sockets ordered should be here in 2 weeks.


----------



## rnros

These Yamamoto sockets really are that nice. Superfine grain ceramic that looks and feels like Teflon, but tougher/harder.
Smooth insertion, solid seat, easy removal. How much can you love a tube socket? You have to see and try these.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> OK more sockets ordered *should be here in 2 weeks*.



Is that shipping with airmail or surface?


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> New side contact sockets for EL3N tubes. Thanks to @rnros who told me about them.
> they are Yamamoto the best I tried yet. All the other ones are crap tried NOS and Chinese ones
> Have to jam the tube in then the contacts are loose.
> The Yamamoto the tube slides in nice and it stays tight.
> A little pricey about $150 for 4 of them + shipping from Germany but worth it.



It's hard for me to look at the web site without wanting to buy anything and everything!


----------



## 2359glenn

Yea they have some nice tubes and everything Jac Music sells is top notch.


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> These Yamamoto sockets really are that nice. Superfine grain ceramic that looks and feels like Teflon, but tougher/harder.
> Smooth insertion, solid seat, easy removal. How much can you love a tube socket? You have to see and try these.



As soon as Glenn said they were worth it, I was all in.

This is a very crazy pin on this tube....the better the sockets and contact the better off you are.


----------



## 2359glenn

II should offer Yamamoto sockets on all of my amps but it would add a couple of hundred dollars
to the cost of the amp. Especially the OTL with six output tube sockets.


----------



## wazzupi

2359glenn said:


> II should offer Yamamoto sockets on all of my amps but it would add a couple of hundred dollars
> to the cost of the amp. Especially the OTL with six output tube sockets.


This is an option for otl ? Hehe


----------



## Monsterzero

I thought the same thing,but then I realized with eleven sockets it might end up costing more than the GDP of The Tiny Republic of 
Togo


----------



## rnros (Mar 3, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> II should offer Yamamoto sockets on all of my amps but it would add a couple of hundred dollars
> to the cost of the amp. Especially the OTL with six output tube sockets.





whirlwind said:


> As soon as Glenn said they were worth it, I was all in.
> 
> This is a very crazy pin on this tube....the better the sockets and contact the better off you are.



Using the Yamamoto octal sockets would be great except the cost is about $55 each! The Yamamoto EL3N sockets by comparison are cheap at ~$30.
So cost for the OTL with 8 octal sockets would be about $440, plus shipping. There is a silver plated version at $35, so $280, plus shipping.
There are some other options. What I purchased are the following two Teflon clones, there are more.
The same well made machined socket/pin stems are also used in a bakelite version and a fine grain ceramic version.
Not saying the machined pins are all the same, or equal to Yamamoto. Yamamoto uses brass with silver and gold plating.
One of the sellers below claims to use OFC copper, the other brass. Of course there are small design/machining differences.

These Nexus and CMC Teflon clones with similar machined socket/pin stems cost $10 or $12 each:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEXUS-MUSI...flon-Tube-Socket-6550-5AR4-4PCS/181561480846?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-CMC-T...-Brass-pin-audio-KT88-EL34-274B/172777499653?

Both are very well made with smooth insertion and removal, and solid/stable grip. No loose tube play at all.
All of these require wrapping or hooking leads around a post instead of having a convenient eyelet tab like the typical socket.
Wondering if that's OK, might add more assembly time. Nexus is left photo, CMC is right photo.
I would prefer direct connection to the pins, but worst case, if it's difficult or cluttered in some situations, PCBs are available.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-Adap...TS-KT88-6550-EL34-6V6-KT66-5AR4/221399931108?
The eBay photos show tin plated PCB but I received gold plated.


----------



## rnros

@2359glenn I can send you a couple of each of these Teflon clones if you want to check them out without waiting weeks for the eBay/China delivery.
One was intended for the rectifier socket on my EL3N. 
With the others, I was going to start replacing the sockets on my OTL, maybe a pair at a time, but that won't happen anytime soon.
I'm enjoying the music too much, maybe after I have the GEL3N here.


----------



## gibosi

While it appears that Jac Music is a good source for sockets, I am less impressed with them in regards to tubes. specifically rectifiers. 

In the past, I inquired about the Mazda UU7 and never heard back. 

They advertise the Brimar 5V4G as a direct replacement for the Mullard GZ32. However, while the GZ32 can provide more than 250ma, the 5V4G can provide at most 175ma. If you run one of these Brimars in the GOTL with a pair of  6AS7, the rectifier will likely fail sooner than later.

Also, they state the the RGN2504 can provide 250ma, when in fact, it tops out at 180ma. Again, this would likely fail rather quickly in the GOTL with 6AS7.

He provides a picture of a Mullard AZ50 and claims it is really a Mullard RGN2504. But again, the Philips tube code, NE, reveals that it is indeed an AZ50. And further, Mullard never manufactured the RGN2504.

So my advice is to be very careful when purchasing tubes from this vendor....


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> Using the Yamamoto octal sockets would be great except the cost is about $55 each! The Yamamoto EL3N sockets by comparison are cheap at ~$30.
> So cost for the OTL with 8 octal sockets would be about $440, plus shipping. There is a silver plated version at $35, so $280, plus shipping.
> There are some other options. What I purchased are the following two Teflon clones, there are more.
> The same well made machined socket/pin stems are also used in a bakelite version and a fine grain ceramic version.
> ...



I don't like that clamp that holds the socket.


----------



## UntilThen

It would be nice to have upgraded sockets but I'm not even thinking about that now. I'm just enjoying listening to music immensely because it sounds so good. Life's little pleasure on a Sunday afternoon.


----------



## leftside (Mar 4, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> All tube plus turntable vs all tube plus tube buffered DAC...
> 
> Which source do you like the best?  Probably depends on the day...!


I've been listening to both a lot tonight. Comparing Love Over Gold by Dire Straits playing at the same time (DSD/DSF and vinyl) and switching between the two by selecting the appropriate button on the preamp remote.

I definitely preferred the Lampizator GA over my previous Scoutmaster Signature + Dynavector 20x2L, but things are much closer with the Prime Signature + Benz Micro LP-S! I'd still give the edge in regard to detail and soundstage to the GA, but the Prime has a more organic sound on drums and bass. The Prime is more authoritative and more lush sounding. Both are fantastic, but I felt myself going back to the Prime Signature more often.

Here's a pic from the afternoon music listening session with completely different music!


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> It would be nice to have upgraded sockets but I'm not even thinking about that now. I'm just enjoying listening to music immensely because it sounds so good. Life's little pleasure on a Sunday afternoon.


Nice!

Funny that you are chilling on a Sunday afternoon and I'm thinking it might be time for some sleep (on Saturday night).


----------



## UntilThen

Left, you've got both analogue and digital covered well. Can't get better than that.

I'm very happy with my dac and turntable too. To my ears, the Rega RP8 with Apheta cartridge and Avid Pellar phono preamp resolves and sounds clearer than Yggdrasil. I know this is sacrilege to some.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> @2359glenn I can send you a couple of each of these Teflon clones if you want to check them out without waiting weeks for the eBay/China delivery.
> One was intended for the rectifier socket on my EL3N.
> With the others, I was going to start replacing the sockets on my OTL, maybe a pair at a time, but that won't happen anytime soon.
> I'm enjoying the music too much, maybe after I have the GEL3N here.



I hope the new sockets take the same size hole and the mounting screw holes are the same,
You can send me that one and I can check.


----------



## 2359glenn

To put all Yamamoto sockets in the OTL with 10 tube sockets is about $590 plus shipping from Germany.

Pricey but worth it if you can afford it. So far I only used these in the 300B amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilTh said:


> Left, you've got both analogue and digital covered well. Can't get better than that.
> 
> I'm very happy with my dac and turntable too. To my ears, the Rega RP8 with Apheta cartridge and Avid Pellar phono preamp resolves and sounds clearer than Yggdrasil. I know this is sacrilege to some.



Very nice! Both of your Vinyl rigs are stupendous “money no object” systems.  

Exciting to hear they resolve more pleasingly than expensive DAC rigs.  

Even more modest $$$ vinyl rigs tend to sound more natural than the ones and zeros IMHO. 

Half the fun of Vinyl for me, is discovering things you completely missed when current. 

Here is a Dream Academy “Remembrance Days” LP being wood glue cleaned. 

Inexpensive way to discover great works that you missed back in the day.

This LP was free...one vinyl store here has “Free Friday”. One LP from the bargain bins, for free, if you come by on a Friday.  

The Wood Glue will make this play good as new...


----------



## leftside

I'm having a vinyl (re) cleaning session this afternoon with my new setup. DIY ultrasonic cleaner (US cleaner + http://www.cleanervinyl.com/) with distilled water and a little Tergikleen (thanks for the original idea from UT) and then a couple of rinses on the vacuum cleaner. I'll post a  pic if I remember.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> I'm having a vinyl (re) cleaning session this afternoon with my new setup. DIY ultrasonic cleaner (US cleaner + http://www.cleanervinyl.com/) with distilled water and a little Tergikleen (thanks for the original idea from UT) and then a couple of rinses on the vacuum cleaner. I'll post a  pic if I remember.



Recleaning? How cleaned originally?


----------



## UntilThen

Left it will sound quieter than digital after the clean. 

Pictures please.


----------



## mordy

Is this a relabeled Western Electric 421A tube?


----------



## leftside (Mar 4, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Recleaning? How cleaned originally?


Spin Cleaner + VPI HW-17 vacuum cleaner. I've read really good things about US cleaning + vacuum rinsing/drying, so I'm trying that next on a few records that still have pops and crackles. The vinyl may indeed be damaged on these records, but I have to give it another go


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Left it will sound quieter than digital after the clean.
> 
> Pictures please.


Didn't quite get around to it today. Some of my audio listings sold today and packing them up had to take priority. I'll try again next weekend


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Is this a relabeled Western Electric 421A tube?



I doubt it. Every genuine WE 421A I have seen has bottom getters. So this is very likely nothing more than a Tung-Sol/Chatham 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> To put all Yamamoto sockets in the OTL with 10 tube sockets is about $590 plus shipping from Germany.
> 
> Pricey but worth it if you can afford it. So far I only used these in the 300B amp.



If I had to do it again, I would have gone with Yamamoto sockets. Gotl is worth it and will remain a classic for me.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> If I had to do it again, I would have gone with Yamamoto sockets. Gotl is worth it and will remain a classic for me.


 
They are quite expensive though but I think worth it.
It would have added $500 to the amp.


----------



## mordy (Mar 4, 2018)

gibosi said:


> I doubt it. Every genuine WE 421A I have seen has bottom getters. So this is very likely nothing more than a Tung-Sol/Chatham 5998.[/QUOTe
> 
> Thanks gibosi,
> 
> Is this 6520 with dimpled plates the same as TS5998?


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> I don't like that clamp that holds the socket.



Yeah, they are weak, don't match the quality of the sockets at all.



2359glenn said:


> I hope the new sockets take the same size hole and the mounting screw holes are the same,
> You can send me that one and I can check.



The socket looks to be same size, top and bottom, with similar flange. Don't think the spacing for mounting screws is the same on the bracket.
My thought was to try using the same bracket, either purchased separately, or reuse the existing. Not about to drill and tap new holes. 
Took a chance looking at the photos, also assumed they would try to match one of the standards, sell more that way.

Yes, I'll send you a sample, PM the address.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> They are quite expensive though but I think worth it.
> It would have added $500 to the amp.



Agree with UT, GOTL is definitely worth it. 
Hard to get used to that number for sockets, but now? I would do it.


----------



## thecrow

Is there a website with all the info on the three (?) amps being offered?

Wanting to find iut some more general info on the amps and pricing

Thanks


----------



## rnros

thecrow said:


> Is there a website with all the info on the three (?) amps being offered?
> 
> Wanting to find iut some more general info on the amps and pricing
> 
> Thanks



Hi crow, No website. Just PM Glenn.
Everything happens via PM and this thread.
Glenn will give you prices including available options, but I will tell you that the value and SQ are seriously good.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> They are quite expensive though but I think worth it.
> It would have added $500 to the amp.



I will be thinking seriously about this option when the time comes

I need to sell some stuff that is just lying around here that I do not use


----------



## gibosi

thecrow said:


> Is there a website with all the info on the three (?) amps being offered?
> 
> Wanting to find iut some more general info on the amps and pricing
> 
> Thanks



Actually, Glenn is a custom builder. He will build whatever you want, as long as it is feasible and you can afford it. So if you want a solid state amp, I bet he would build it for you. lol 

His most common builds are an OTL and two transformer coupled amps, one based on the EL3N and the other based on the 300B. But if you would prefer an OTC amp based on the 45 he can build that too. And in each case, he can tweak these builds any way you want.

So I encourage you to think about what kind of amp you want and your budget and then send him a PM.


----------



## gibosi

> Is this 6520 with dimpled plates the same as TS5998?

Yes. Generally it is best to always take the text and graphic labels on tubes with a grain of salt. They have much more to do with marketing to the intended end-user than anything else.

In this case, when you see those unique domino plates, it can only be either a 5998 or WE421A.


----------



## TonyNewman

gibosi said:


> Actually, Glenn is a custom builder. He will build whatever you want, as long as it is feasible and you can afford it. So if you want a solid state amp, I bet he would build it for you. lol
> 
> His most common builds are an OTL and two transformer coupled amps, one based on the EL3N and the other based on the 300B. But if you would prefer an OTC amp based on the 45 he can build that too. And in each case, he can tweak these builds any way you want.
> 
> So I encourage you to think about what kind of amp you want and your budget and then send him a PM.



+1. I wish I had of explored the options with Glenn a little more before putting in my order on the 300B. I would have gone SS rectification together with another output tube option (assuming this is feasible) - probably 45s as well as 300Bs.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> > Is this 6520 with dimpled plates the same as TS5998?
> 
> Yes. Generally it is best to always take the text and graphic labels on tubes with a grain of salt. They have much more to do with marketing to the intended end-user than anything else.
> 
> In this case, when you see those unique domino plates, it can only be either a 5998 or WE421A.


Thanks


----------



## wazzupi

I've decided on lundahl - hexfred rectifier build with all the fixing for SQ.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> I've decided on lundahl - hexfred rectifier build with all the fixing for SQ.



This? You are on the right track. 

Don't forget to get a pair of c3g and 6 x 6BX7gt. Many tube combinations sounds excellent on the OTL amp but this combination is just that special to my ears. YMMV.


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> +1. I wish I had of explored the options with Glenn a little more before putting in my order on the 300B. I would have gone SS rectification together with another output tube option (assuming this is feasible) - probably 45s as well as 300Bs.



I would wager that you'll be pleased with a Glenn OTL amp sound with c3g and 6 x 6BX7gt using hexfred rectifier. This setup is snappy, dynamic and details galore. Musical notes just snaps in place. Go on. Get the OTL amp to partner your 300b amp.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> This? You are on the right track.
> 
> Don't forget to get a pair of c3g and 6 x 6BX7gt. Many tube combinations sounds excellent on the OTL amp but this combination is just that special to my ears. YMMV.


Yep just like that


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> This? You are on the right track.
> 
> Don't forget to get a pair of c3g and 6 x 6BX7gt. Many tube combinations sounds excellent on the OTL amp but this combination is just that special to my ears. YMMV.




Tube rollers dream amp


----------



## JazzVinyl

Did @yates7592 ever get his amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Did @yates7592 ever get his amp?



Yes today


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 5, 2018)

One piece glue peel from that “Dream Academy” LP...



Detail...you can see the mirror image of the LP grooves:


----------



## UntilThen

Yates are you still alive or are you in esctasy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

That 25v RCA 1633 driver tube that comes with the GOTL...

As good as the 6SN7 RCA grey glass?


----------



## ru4music

JazzVinyl said:


> One piece glue peel from that “Dream Academy” LP...
> 
> 
> 
> Detail...you can see the mirror image of the LP grooves:


That's just crazy!  Imagine how good the LP could sound if I took it through my wood shop's  machinery (e.g. table saw, router table, sanders and wood clamps etc.)


----------



## JazzVinyl

ru4music said:


> That's just crazy!  Imagine how good the LP could sound if I took it through my wood shop's  machinery (e.g. table saw, router table, sanders and wood clamps etc.)



LOL....just the glue will do.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> I would wager that you'll be pleased with a Glenn OTL amp sound with c3g and 6 x 6BX7gt using hexfred rectifier. This setup is snappy, dynamic and details galore. Musical notes just snaps in place. Go on. Get the OTL amp to partner your 300b amp.



Would be all over the OTL like a rash if I could ... but I am saving for (early) retirement, so blowing a heap of cash on another tube amp is not an option. Have my 300B amp with SS rectification and that gets my tube jollies happening nicely.


----------



## TonyNewman

JazzVinyl said:


> One piece glue peel from that “Dream Academy” LP...
> 
> 
> 
> Detail...you can see the mirror image of the LP grooves:



You vinyl folks are a weird bunch. Is this all a thinly veiled mask for rampant glue sniffing?


----------



## JazzVinyl

TonyNewman said:


> You vinyl folks are a weird bunch. Is this all a thinly veiled mask for rampant glue sniffing?



Must not be familiar with wood glue, Tony - no toxic fumes from wood glue.  

If you are not in to vinyl...you wouldn’t understand


----------



## TonyNewman

JazzVinyl said:


> Must not be familiar with wood glue, Tony - no toxic fumes from wood glue.
> 
> If you are not in to vinyl...you wouldn’t understand



Pops, crackles, and all sorts of sonic weirdness  Give me digital goodness 

There are some DACs out there now that deliver a rather nice sound - not quite vinyl - but close. First time I heard an R2R NOS DAC I knew I had found digital nirvana.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Must not be familiar with wood glue, Tony - no toxic fumes from wood glue.
> 
> If you are not in to vinyl...you wouldn’t understand


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> That 25v RCA 1633 driver tube that comes with the GOTL...
> 
> As good as the 6SN7 RCA grey glass?



They are identical. While RCA used different heaters the cathodes get just as hot.


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> Would be all over the OTL like a rash if I could ... but I am saving for (early) retirement, so blowing a heap of cash on another tube amp is not an option. Have my 300B amp with SS rectification and that gets my tube jollies happening nicely.



Very nice set up Tony. 300b amp and GS-X Mk2 with Metrum Pavane. You've got to be happy in retirement. Nothing more to do but just to enjoy the music.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> That 25v RCA 1633 driver tube that comes with the GOTL...
> 
> As good as the 6SN7 RCA grey glass?



Yes it is the same tube with a 25 volt filament. That makes them cheep as most amps can't use them $4


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> That 25v RCA 1633 driver tube that comes with the GOTL...
> 
> As good as the 6SN7 RCA grey glass?




Yes and the same goes for the 1633 black glass Ken Rad


----------



## 2359glenn

Ken-Rad even better sounding then the RCA grey glass if you get a quiet one.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 12, 2018)

TonyNewman said:


> Pops, crackles, and all sorts of sonic weirdness  Give me digital goodness
> 
> There are some DACs out there now that deliver a rather nice sound - not quite vinyl - but close. First time I heard an R2R NOS DAC I knew I had found digital nirvana.



Yes, you must be willing to endure some surface noise to enjoy vinyl.  It can be far quieter than most folks realize with a perfectly aligned cartridge.

But agree, that DAC's have made some big strides lately and difference in naturalness is shrinking. No one can deny that digital is a far more convenient medium.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Ken-Rad even better sounding then the RCA grey glass if you get a quiet one.



Thanks, will keep an eye out for the Ken-Rad black glass 1633


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> Very nice set up Tony. 300b amp and GS-X Mk2 with Metrum Pavane. You've got to be happy in retirement. Nothing more to do but just to enjoy the music.



Thank you. After a LOT of gear changes around SS amps/DACs I finally have a setup I am completely content with now. Nothing more to do with it but enjoy. I did think about electrostatics, but have to stop somewhere.


----------



## rnros

TonyNewman said:


> Thank you. After a LOT of gear changes around SS amps/DACs I finally have a setup I am completely content with now. Nothing more to do with it but enjoy. I did think about electrostatics, but have to stop somewhere.



With the release of MrSpeakers Voce the e-stat options have become more interesting. The amps are still very expensive, the best seem to be all Kevin Gilmore designs, that's a good thing, but the e-stat world could use another amp competitor, like a Glenn e-stat tube amp that combines his great sound with low or reasonable price tubes. I wonder if the energizer approach reaches the same SQ level as the dedicated amps? And if not, can it happen with the right design? Would be great to feed something like the GOTL output into an e-stat energizer. Thinking the e-stat market will be expanding soon, more options and innovation in the near future.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 6, 2018)

If an affordable Glenn e-stat amp were a possibility that would be a game changer.I would love to grab a pair of the 007s,or give the Voce a day in court,but the price of the BHSE essentially dictates I will not own a e-stat system anytime soon.


----------



## TonyNewman

rnros said:


> With the release of MrSpeakers Voce the e-stat options have become more interesting. The amps are still very expensive, the best seem to be all Kevin Gilmore designs, that's a good thing, but the e-stat world could use another amp competitor, like a Glenn e-stat tube amp that combines his great sound with low or reasonable price tubes. I wonder if the energizer approach reaches the same SQ level as the dedicated amps? And if not, can it happen with the right design? Would be great to feed something like the GOTL output into an e-stat energizer. Thinking the e-stat market will be expanding soon, more options and innovation in the near future.



Frank Cooter made a custom e-stat amp around a pair of 845s. That would be a pricey beast, for sure. To power e-stats via tubes is no small task, I think. Would like to hear Glenn's thoughts on that.

An alternate to the BHSE is the Mjolnir Audio KGSSHV Carbon. Solid state amp, but with some magic under the hood. Not cheap either, but significantly less than the BHSE (particularly when you factor in the cost of decent EL34s).

If I were to go e-stat, it would probably be with the KGSSHV Carbon + Voce/SR-007. But how much more SQ performance am I going to get over GS-X Mk2 + HD800S/HEKv2? 5%? 10%? E-stat headphone/s + amp is going to exceed 10K USD with shipping and import duties to my part of the world. For a marginal performance gain I really can't justify it. Would like to do it, for sure, but the $$$ kill it for me. Maybe one day...


----------



## leftside

TonyNewman said:


> Pops, crackles, and all sorts of sonic weirdness  Give me digital goodness
> 
> There are some DACs out there now that deliver a rather nice sound - not quite vinyl - but close. First time I heard an R2R NOS DAC I knew I had found digital nirvana.


You're not far off, but the pops and crackles can be minimised and certainly not heard when the music is playing. DACs are getting better and better and I agree in regard to the newer R2R DACs. At a similar price point (DAC vs turntable/cart), and with a quiet piece of vinyl, I'm still giving the edge to vinyl though - but this is only since I performed a major upgrade to my turntable + cart recently.


----------



## leftside

TonyNewman said:


> Thank you. After a LOT of gear changes around SS amps/DACs I finally have a setup I am completely content with now. Nothing more to do with it but enjoy. I did think about electrostatics, but have to stop somewhere.


I'm also DONE. And me and you have performed quite a few changes over the last few years...


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> You're not far off, but the pops and crackles can be minimised and certainly not heard when the music is playing. DACs are getting better and better and I agree in regard to the newer R2R DACs. At a similar price point (DAC vs turntable/cart), and with a quiet piece of vinyl, I'm still giving the edge to vinyl though - but this is only since I performed a major upgrade to my turntable + cart recently.



The small SQ tradeoff vs vinyl I am happy to take for the convenience of digital music. It is so much easier to fire up a PC or music server and have your entire music library at your fingertips. Being a lazy sod, getting up off my chubby butt to mess about with records is just not my thing. Turning point for me has been R2R NOS DACs - they have such a lovely and relaxed sound - 'natural' is a word I would use to describe them. Couldn't say that about any of the delta sigma DAC I have heard in the past 10 years. Makes me wonder what DACs will be capable of in another 5 to 10 years.


----------



## whirlwind

TonyNewman said:


> The small SQ tradeoff vs vinyl I am happy to take for the convenience of digital music. It is so much easier to fire up a PC or music server and have your entire music library at your fingertips. Being a lazy sod, getting up off my chubby butt to mess about with records is just not my thing. Turning point for me has been R2R NOS DACs - they have such a lovely and relaxed sound - 'natural' is a word I would use to describe them. Couldn't say that about any of the delta sigma DAC I have heard in the past 10 years. Makes me wonder what DACs will be capable of in another 5 to 10 years.



I always kind of thought of the dac as the least important piece of the puzzle for digital music.
I no longer feel that way, but a lot goes on through one's head-fi journey to change your mind.
I own lots of vinyl, but  would still need a good turntable, as I sold all my older gear to make some room.
I have no problem living with the digital sound these days and the ease of your whole library at your fingertips is just too damn handy!

I would listen to vinyl if I could talk my wife into cleaning my lp's and changing albums for me


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> You're not far off, but the pops and crackles can be minimized and certainly not heard when the music is playing. DACs are getting better and better and I agree in regard to the newer R2R DACs. At a similar price point (DAC vs turntable/cart), and with a quiet piece of vinyl, I'm still giving the edge to vinyl though - but this is only since I performed a major upgrade to my turntable + cart recently.



Many folks have never heard vinyl at it's maximum potential and think it is always "bacon frying".  I have astounded many a listener, in my analog den.  

These days in my system, if a pop is heard, my wife whips around and says: "WHAT WAS THAT, I JUST HEARD?"....LOL she is used to it being a very quiet medium.
Then I will say: "put that one in the wood glue pile" 

I have a tremendous amount of digital too, but I like to keep the digital and vinyl separate.  Have different albums on vinyl (about 3000 of them) so that when I am in the analog mood, I am hearing music that is not in rotation, on the digital devices.


----------



## UntilThen

After many weeks with HD800, I'm listening again with LCD-2f, Atticus and Eikon on both Ragnarok and Glenn OTL amp. I realise I do love these wooden headphones. Bass is really gratifying. 

Listening with LCD-2f now on GOTL with Ken Rad 1633 and Cetron 6336b with 5998 boost switch on. Really love the tone. Can't get better than this or can it?

Maybe... by upgrading Yggdrasil to the analogue-2 board and USB Gen 5.


----------



## rnros

TonyNewman said:


> Frank Cooter made a custom e-stat amp around a pair of 845s. That would be a pricey beast, for sure. To power e-stats via tubes is no small task, I think. Would like to hear Glenn's thoughts on that.
> 
> An alternate to the BHSE is the Mjolnir Audio KGSSHV Carbon. Solid state amp, but with some magic under the hood. Not cheap either, but significantly less than the BHSE (particularly when you factor in the cost of decent EL34s).
> 
> If I were to go e-stat, it would probably be with the KGSSHV Carbon + Voce/SR-007. But how much more SQ performance am I going to get over GS-X Mk2 + HD800S/HEKv2? 5%? 10%? E-stat headphone/s + amp is going to exceed 10K USD with shipping and import duties to my part of the world. For a marginal performance gain I really can't justify it. Would like to do it, for sure, but the $$$ kill it for me. Maybe one day...



Yeah, the two Gilmore amps you mention are expensive, $6K to $8K, but they are two of the most highly regarded. Both of those designs go back to 2004 or 2005. Don't know about Mjolnir KG Carbon but I believe Blue Hawaii has been in production by that builder since the release of the design in the DIY community. BHSE is hybrid. 

All of this is OT, so don't want to go too far down that road. Just curious if we are going to see some expansion with the e-stat market.
Of course, what is on topic is the comparative high value offered by Glenn with his amp designs.


----------



## TonyNewman

rnros said:


> ...Of course, what is on topic is the comparative high value offered by Glenn with his amp designs.



Agreed. Between the Glenn 300B and GS-X Mk2 I think I have reached the endpoint for tube and SS amps. Certainly my personal endpoint.


----------



## leftside

TonyNewman said:


> Agreed. Between the Glenn 300B and GS-X Mk2 I think I have reached the endpoint for tube and SS amps. Certainly my personal endpoint.


I see there's a Metrum Pavane L3


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> I see there's a Metrum Pavane L3



All new Pavanes are Adagio standard (L3). L1, L2, L3 only applies to the older production Pavanes (and the upgrades from L1).

L2 and L3 have essentially the same DAC components as the Adagio - same number of DAC TWO modules and an FGPA per channel. L3 has the ability to handle higher bit rates over the L2, but otherwise is the same deal.

Any new production Pavane is L3 by default. My own unit was purchased as an L1 and upgraded to L2. The SQ difference is significant to my ears. L2/L3/Adagio - 'more betterer' than the L1 by quite a bit.


----------



## leftside

TonyNewman said:


> All new Pavanes are Adagio standard (L3). L1, L2, L3 only applies to the older production Pavanes (and the upgrades from L1).
> 
> L2 and L3 have essentially the same DAC components as the Adagio - same number of DAC TWO modules and an FGPA per channel. L3 has the ability to handle higher bit rates over the L2, but otherwise is the same deal.
> 
> Any new production Pavane is L3 by default. My own unit was purchased as an L1 and upgraded to L2. The SQ difference is significant to my ears. L2/L3/Adagio - 'more betterer' than the L1 by quite a bit.


Nice that they offer upgrades:
https://metrumacoustics.com/product/level-3-upgrade-for-pavane-adagio/

I like it when manufacturers offer that - tho it's ended up costing me a fair bit. At least it's staggered and not all in one go.


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> Nice that they offer upgrades:
> https://metrumacoustics.com/product/level-3-upgrade-for-pavane-adagio/
> 
> I like it when manufacturers offer that - tho it's ended up costing me a fair bit. At least it's staggered and not all in one go.



I was doubly fortunate that my local distributor was able to do the upgrade locally. Shipping my Pavane from NZ to Holland and back was never an option. The good folks at Metrum were kind enough to ship the upgrade parts and instructions to the local folks who made it all happen. Brilliant.

I think this has been covered off before in this thread - the difference that the upgrade to the DAC TWO modules makes - it is quite something. I absolutely adore my Pavane post-upgrade.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> After many weeks with HD800, I'm listening again with LCD-2f, Atticus and Eikon on both Ragnarok and Glenn OTL amp. I realise I do love these wooden headphones. Bass is really gratifying.
> 
> Listening with LCD-2f now on GOTL with Ken Rad 1633 and Cetron 6336b with 5998 boost switch on. Really love the tone. Can't get better than this or can it?
> 
> Maybe... by upgrading Yggdrasil to the analogue-2 board and USB Gen 5.



So many premium phones and systems, must be hard to decide which, to listen to!


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> So many premium phones and systems, must be hard to decide which, to listen to!



It's even harder when I have to decide whether to listen to my stereo system or head-fi system.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> It's even harder when I have to decide whether to listen to my stereo system or head-fi system.



Oh, that one is easy for me....

Others not around: HP.  
Sociable / sharing with others: Speakers


----------



## leftside

Same.
Wife in bed: HP
Wife not in bed: Speakers


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Same.
> Wife in bed: HP
> Wife not in bed: Speakers



My wife likes to talk....and there WILL be a quiz!


----------



## Sound Trooper

**Warning: Long post ahead!**

In anticipation of the incoming EL3N (which I hope will come sooner rather than later, after Glenn sorts out the chassis!), I have spent the last weeks rationalizing my setup and at the same time doing some house-keeping of my gear. My musical tastes are very wide ranging from pop, to rock and classical, to Jazz & electronic, I'll listen to anything which appeals to my mood!

In my short span of time (2 years) in head-fi, I have settled on what I feel is will bring me musical enjoyment for the next few years (or until the next upgrade itch comes along ). I really like my Abyss Phi and I am confident that the Glenn EL3N will be a good match for the Abyss. I will also be keeping my LCD2F as I still love how they sound (+they are the first serious headphones which I bought!). I believe that the HD6XX will also sound really good with the EL3N which Glenn is building. As far as headphones go, I'm really happy with what I have now (Abyss, LCD2F & HD6XX) and I'll probably not add to this further.

I have also sold my Stax setup (SR-007A mkII + KGSShv) because I felt that I have my musical needs covered by the Abyss + Glenn EL3N. My Stax combo sounds wonderful, but I just can't justify the space it occupies. Furthermore after acquiring the Abyss Phi, I found myself reaching for the Abyss 80% of the time. Looking back, I will have fond memories of the SR-007A + KGSShv combo and miss their wonderful dynamics. Another headphone which I am also looking to part with is the modhouse Argon. I bought these unheard and feel that they don't do anything special for me. I mean they sound nice, but compared to my other stuff, it was just middle of the road. Maybe I'll keep it as a spare headphone but I'll see how it goes.

My source gear is pretty much settled and I'm really happy with the Chord H2+Blu2 combo. The Blu2 (even thought expensive) brings the H2 to another level in terms of musicality (bass definition, dynamics, stage, depth). I am also Roon off a Innuos Zen MkII and I am all digital baby!  

I have temporarily halted my quest for a pair of audiophile closed backs now as I have not heard a closed back headphone which appeals to me (Z1R, AFC, TH900). I have now turned to IEMs for the convenience and isolation when I want my music fix on the go. The Oriolus Mk II offers decent performance (bass, treble, decent stage, sweet mids) and I feel that the Effect Audio Ero II adds a layer of sophistication to the Oriolus' presentation. The Sennheiser HD820 looks like the close backs which I am looking for, but for the money, I am pretty hesitant to have 2 expensive headphones in my line-up.

Before Glenn's EL3N arrives, my amplification needs are now handled by the AudioGD NFB-1amp. There is nothing much I can say about the NFB-1amp except that it sounds clean (boring?) and powers the Abyss Phi decently well. In fact I am so confident that the Glenn EL3N will trounce the NFB-1amp when it makes it grand entrance that I am already planning for the NFB-1amp's departure. What I am deliberating is the need to have a SS amp together with the EL3N. The prospect of having a Headamp GS-X sitting next to the Glenn EL3N sounds very intriguing but I will have to wait for Glenn's EL3N to arrive, run in and give myself 6 months to decide the way forward.

So most of the stuff I own now will be staying in the foreseeable future but at the same time, I have plans to make a few changes for the future. I am planning towards having 2 setups in the next few years. For my smaller room, it will be the H2 + 2Go (poly like module for H2) + EL3N. This will mainly be a headphones setup (Abyss + LCD2F) where I can use the 2Go as a Roon endpoint to stream from my main setup. I will also attempt to use the EL3N to run small full range speakers (high sensitivity) and I think it will do just fine. Another setup which I am looking for will be the Zen MkII + Blu2 + Dave + Power tube amp + speakers. This will be my main rig and will take lots of planning to materialize. But it sure is fun planning ahead and enjoying the journey along the way!

Happy days ahead!


----------



## Hansotek

Jamming out with the British All-Star team: GEC 18/20, GEC 6080s and Mullard ECC31! Thanks for the adaptor @2359glenn!


----------



## gibosi (Mar 9, 2018)

It's been quiet here for a while, so I thought a bit of news from left field might not be too distracting... 

This #27 was manufactured by Sonatron. With a name like that, surely it will sound great! Maybe?

Advertising by the Sonatron Tube Company first appears in 1925, but by September, 1929, Sonatron, along with Televocal Corporation and the Magnatron Corporation merged to form the National Union Radio Corporation. And thus, this tube was likely manufactured in 1928 or the first half of 1929. I have five of these tubes and at the moment, I am furiously cleaning pins.


----------



## pippen99

From further in left field. This is for those of you interested in the history of the vacuum tube.  Add this to your collection!  Built by Roy Burlew in 1929.  Burlew was the owner of the Kentucky Electric Lamp Co., later Ken-Rad Tube and Lamp Co.  The house is in Owensboro Ky.  The asking price is $3.3 million.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 9, 2018)

And in 1945 the sale of Ken-Rad to General Electric was completed, becoming GE's primary tube making facility.

Due to the government's filing of an antitrust suit against RCA, Westinghouse and GE in the early 1930's, GE essentially exited the radio tube business. Purchasing Ken-Rad enabled GE to get back into that business after a 15-year hiatus with a running start.


----------



## gibosi

These Sonatrons are surprisingly quiet and sound great!


----------



## Hansotek

Day 3 with the GEC U18/20 and it's really started to open up now that it has about 20 hours on it. Jamming the ZMF Auteur Blackwood tonight with the U18/20, Mullard ECC31 and a quad of RCA 6BX7s. The words "buttery" and "silky" some to mind. I understand some of the comparisons I've read with the Mullard GZ32 now - vocals are liquid, feathery, silky-sweet goodness. Transparency, impact, emotional gravitas and engagement have made a big jump from hours 0-10. I imagine it's only going to get better from here.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> These Sonatrons are surprisingly quiet and sound great!



Great find Ken! Great looking tube and great picture of it also.






Hansotek said:


> Day 3 with the GEC U18/20 and it's really started to open up now that it has about 20 hours on it. Jamming the ZMF Auteur Blackwood tonight with the U18/20, Mullard ECC31 and a quad of RCA 6BX7s. The words "buttery" and "silky" some to mind. I understand some of the comparisons I've read with the Mullard GZ32 now - vocals are liquid, feathery, silky-sweet goodness. Transparency, impact, emotional gravitas and engagement have made a big jump from hours 0-10. I imagine it's only going to get better from here.



The GEC U18/20  is indeed a wonderful rectifier....enjoy!


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> These Sonatrons are surprisingly quiet and sound great!



Beautiful looking tubes, Ken....looking forward to a sonic comparison between these and drivers from a couple of decades forward in time.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Beautiful looking tubes, Ken....looking forward to a sonic comparison between these and drivers from a couple of decades forward in time.



I still have a table full of triodes... And I've added a few more since the previous picture. lol 

So I am sorting through them, trying to put together matching pairs and cleaning pins before I can even try them. One of these days (perhaps a decade from now? lol), I hope to be able to make some meaningful comparisons with common drivers that most folks here have experience with. Someday....


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> I still have a table full of triodes... And I've added a few more since the previous picture. lol
> 
> So I am sorting through them, trying to put together matching pairs and cleaning pins before I can even try them. One of these days (perhaps a decade from now? lol), I hope to be able to make some meaningful comparisons with common drivers that most folks here have experience with. Someday....



Interesting, Ken...

Going to keep them all?

.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 10, 2018)

In my experience, 50% or more will be too noisy and they will be tossed. But because of this "quality" issue, I have had to lower my standards and tolerate more noise than I would for a 6SN7. So I am keeping some that are "acceptably quiet", but not as quiet as I would like. And I continue to look for more in an attempt to put together pairs that are really quiet. Given that really quiet pairs are rather rare, I don't think I will end up with all that many....

Further, a number of these triodes are singles, so I will keep them until I can put together at least one "acceptably quiet" pair. And the winnowing process will continue....


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> In my experience, 50% or more will be too noisy and they will be tossed. But because of this "quality" issue, I have had to lower my standards and tolerate more noise than I would for a 6SN7. So I am keeping some that are "acceptably quiet", but not as quiet as I would like. And I continue to look for more in an attempt to put together pairs that are really quiet. Given that really quiet pairs are rather rare, I don't think I will end up with all that many....
> 
> Further, a number of these triodes are singles, so I will keep them until I can put together at least one "acceptably quiet" pair. And the winnowing process will continue....


Hi G,
What happens if you mix and match two different quiet singles? Do you need pairs of triodes for each channel?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi G,
> What happens if you mix and match two different quiet singles? Do you need pairs of triodes for each channel?



One pair of triodes is equal to one 6SN7. So if I were to use two different brands of triodes, it would be like cutting 6SN7's in half and using half of an RCA (for example) for one channel and half of a Sylvania for the other. It would work fine, but in my humble opinion, both channels of a stereo amp should be identical.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> I still have a table full of triodes... And I've added a few more since the previous picture. lol
> 
> So I am sorting through them, trying to put together matching pairs and cleaning pins before I can even try them. One of these days (perhaps a decade from now? lol), I hope to be able to make some meaningful comparisons with common drivers that most folks here have experience with. Someday....



Nice collection, I'm still playing with RCA 76 and it sounds awesome
Thanks for your recommendation Ken


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> One pair of triodes is equal to one 6SN7. So if I were to use two different brands of triodes, it would be like cutting 6SN7's in half and using half of an RCA (for example) for one channel and half of a Sylvania for the other. It would work fine, but in my humble opinion, both channels of a stereo amp should be identical.



I agree that both channels should be identical, but in my humble experience sometimes different makes of tubes either sound (almost) the same, or complement each other with a resultant beautiful sound.
It appears to me that just like you can find a favorite combination of driver and power tubes, you may be able to pair different driver tubes for good effect.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Nice collection, I'm still playing with RCA 76 and it sounds awesome
> Thanks for your recommendation Ken



Yes, the RCA 76 is what hooked me on triodes. And if I wasn't so crazy I would have stopped right there. lol 

The RCA 76 was manufactured in the Harrison Plant, so I would really like to compare it to a pair of Harrison 27s. However, I have yet to find a reasonably quiet pair. But I am pretty sure there are some Harrison 27s on the table. Tomorrow I will check. And if I have some, will clean them up and pop them in next.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Yes, the RCA 76 is what hooked me on triodes. And if I wasn't so crazy I would have stopped right there. lol
> 
> The RCA 76 was manufactured in the Harrison Plant, so I would really like to compare it to a pair of Harrison 27s. However, I have yet to find a reasonably quiet pair. But I am pretty sure there are some Harrison 27s on the table. Tomorrow I will check. And if I have some, will clean them up and pop them in next.




Problem is...You Are Crazy


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Problem is...You Are Crazy



Hey! I represent that remark! lol 

Unfortunately, I have only one Harrison 27 but thought there might be more on the table. Checked this morning and no. For some reason, Harrison 27s have been hard to find. So until I get at least one more, a fair comparison between 27 and 76 will have to wait....

But in the meantime, I have plenty to keep me busy.


----------



## leftside

Sunday afternoon US cleaning and HW-17 rinsing.


----------



## Monsterzero

At first I thought I was looking at a photo taken inside of a medical laboratory...Nope just your normal,everyday record cleaning set-up.Very cool.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L


leftside said:


> Sunday afternoon US cleaning and HW-17 rinsing.



Quite a snazzy setup!!!


----------



## attmci (Mar 11, 2018)

gibosi said:


> In my experience, 50% or more will be too noisy and they will be tossed. But because of this "quality" issue, I have had to lower my standards and tolerate more noise than I would for a 6SN7. So I am keeping some that are "acceptably quiet", but not as quiet as I would like. And I continue to look for more in an attempt to put together pairs that are really quiet. Given that really quiet pairs are rather rare, I don't think I will end up with all that many....
> 
> Further, a number of these triodes are singles, so I will keep them until I can put together at least one "acceptably quiet" pair. And the winnowing process will continue....


Ken, I am using the Micro-mesh (600, 800, 1200MX) to clean my NOS tube pins obtained from here with good results (OK, followed by Deoxit): http://micro-surface.com/


----------



## gibosi

Well, these 27s are not NOS. The vast majority of them have been pulled out of old radios and more often then not, the pins have considerable corrosion and baked-on grime. A wire-brush on a Dremel tool works pretty good. Which Micro-mesh product are you using?


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Well, these 27s are not NOS. The vast majority of them have been pulled out of old radios and more often then not, the pins have considerable corrosion and baked-on grime. A wire-brush on a Dremel tool works pretty good. Which Micro-mesh product are you using?



Just edited the previous post. HAVE FUN!


----------



## leftside

Wow - this is definitely the way to clean records. I have a few records that I thought were bad pressings, and I cleaned them today. With a lot of them, most of the pops and cracks have gone - almost totally quiet. Much better.

And these records were previously cleaned with a Spin Cleaner and rinsed/vacuumed with a HW-17. The US + Cleaner Vinyl + HW-17 is a much better combo.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Wow - this is definitely the way to clean records. I have a few records that I thought were bad pressings, and I cleaned them today. With a lot of them, most of the pops and cracks have gone - almost totally quiet. Much better.
> 
> And these records were previously cleaned with a Spin Cleaner and rinsed/vacuumed with a HW-17. The US + Cleaner Vinyl + HW-17 is a much better combo.


Hi leftside,
Now you just need a comparison with Jazz Vinyl's wood glue method to crown the champion record cleaner system!


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Hi leftside,
> Now you just need a comparison with Jazz Vinyl's wood glue method to crown the champion record cleaner system!


Whatever works


----------



## gibosi

A little eye candy. 

NOS NIB 27s tend to be expensive as they tend to be valued rather highly as a collectible. In 1932, in the depths of the great depression, the deForest Radio company went bankrupt so this tube was manufactured before that time.

When bidding on these tubes I am definitely not willing to compete with the collectors out there. But as they say, sometimes eBay sleeps, and I got this one cheap.

I have not had good luck with deForest 27s. Out of the five I have, three are too noisy, one is very quiet and one is tolerable, but not as quiet as I would like. I am hoping that I got lucky and this one will be nice and quiet. But otherwise, I have a nice collectible.


----------



## JazzVinyl

deForest being the inventor of the amplifying triode vacuum tube, easy to see how this brand would be collectible.


----------



## gibosi

Just a side note... Lee deForest sold out to a bunch of investors in 1923. So while the company was happy to use his name and the phrase "The Father of Radio", he was long gone by 1932....


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Just a side note... Lee deForest sold out to a bunch of investors in 1923. So while the company was happy to use his name and the phrase "The Father of Radio", he was long gone by 1932....



I'll bet most folks don't know the history of the deForest company and just know he invented the triode vacuum tube.  We are lucky to have your knowledge avail to us, gibosi...

Cheers...


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 14, 2018)

Any new tube discoveries, gibosi?


----------



## gibosi

Well... I am now off in another world... lol 

A Novis FW125* rectifier manufactured in Vienna, Austria, likely in the mid 1930's.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_fw125.html

However, I have no idea if the FW125*, with an asterisk, is significantly different than the FW125. Anyway, a very cool looking tube with that glass rod in the center.

I believe the FW125 is equivalent to the Telefunken RGN2004, but again, as this is labeled with an asterisk, I really don't know what I have...


----------



## gibosi (Mar 14, 2018)

And a heads up...

Old_Guy_Radiola changed his eBay name to bangybangtubes on March 11, although Old_Guy_Radiola is still in the text of all of the auctions. Many believe that he specializes in fakes. Be careful....


----------



## yates7592

gibosi said:


> And a heads up...
> 
> Old_Guy_Radiola changed his eBay name to bangybangtubes on March 11, although Old_Guy_Radiola is still in the text of all of the auctions. Many believe that he specializes in fakes. Be careful....



Oh crap I bought a set of 8 x RCA 6BX7 from that guy last month.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> And a heads up...
> 
> Old_Guy_Radiola changed his eBay name to bangybangtubes on March 11, although Old_Guy_Radiola is still in the text of all of the auctions. Many believe that he specializes in fakes. Be careful....


Fake dept?:




Philips Miniwatt 6AS7G tubes in original boxes. Did I see the inverted saucer getter?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-PA...271042?hash=item3f9657b902:g:nTcAAOSwVWFapkyk
UT - this seller is in Australia.....


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Well... I am now off in another world... lol
> 
> A Novis FW125* rectifier manufactured in Vienna, Austria, likely in the mid 1930's.
> 
> ...



Have you tried it with 6BX7 outputs??


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Well... I am now off in another world... lol
> 
> A Novis FW125* rectifier manufactured in Vienna, Austria, likely in the mid 1930's.
> 
> ...




Very cool construction!

Something about these globe tubes that I just love.


----------



## rnros

yates7592 said:


> Oh **** I bought a set of 8 x RCA 6BX7 from that guy last month.



Yes, I have seen some questionable tubes listed by this seller, in each case, a scarce, high price tube.
Don't think I would worry about 6BX7, why would anyone fake 6BX7s? Market value before and after the new paint job is about the same.
Not recommending this seller, prices are usually high. 
Did do a couple purchases with him, was a while back, but tubes were good NOS. Either 6SN7 or 6SL7, IIRC.
I remember having 1 out of a 6 tube lot that had a noise problem, seller replaced the tube on request, no problem.
However, IDK what the return privilege would have been if it were a high price fake. 
So care and common sense required, as usual.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 14, 2018)

yates7592 said:


> Oh **** I bought a set of 8 x RCA 6BX7 from that guy last month.



For sure, 6BX7 aren't worth enough money to justify the time it would take to make fakes.

But there are plenty of stories about taking cheap tubes, gold-plating the pins, relabeling them as rare and exotic and selling them for hundreds and even thousands of dollars. For me, there are just too many of these stories to ignore....

But as long as you didn't pay a premium for 6BX7 with gold-plated pins, you should be fine.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Have you tried it with 6BX7 outputs??



I have yet to clean the pins, so I haven't tried it. And I would really like to learn a bit more about it first.

With a quad of 6BX7, I try to use rectifiers that can provide at least 175ma. If this FW125 is equivalent to an RGN2004, it can provide at most 160ma. I think it would be OK to use it with a quad for a short test, but not for long...

On the other hand, until I know more about this tube, it might be safest to use it with just a pair of 6BX7 to try...


----------



## gibosi (Mar 15, 2018)

After consulting with Glenn, it seemed that there was a good chance that the FW125 would be fine with a quad of 6BX7s, so rolled it in....  so far so good....

And after listening to a few songs, it sounds great too (with Tung-Sol 6BX7 and Westinghouse 227). But given how rare this tube is, I am pretty reluctant to even consider using it as a daily driver....


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 15, 2018)

gibosi said:


> After consulting with Glenn, it seemed that there was a good chance that the FW125 would be fine with a quad of 6BX7s, so rolled it in....  so far so good....
> 
> And after listening to a few songs, it sounds great too (with Tung-Sol 6BX7 and Westinghouse 227). But given how rare this tube is, I am pretty reluctant to even consider using it as a daily driver....




Great pics Ken....stunning!!

Don't blame you for not wanting to use it as a daily driver.....looks like a special listening session tube  

What adapter is need for the   RGN2004 ?
RGN 1064 ?


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> What adapter is need for the RGN2004 ?
> RGN 1064 ?



Both these tubes use the B4 base, which is the same as the U18/20. As you already have this adapter, you are good to go.


----------



## davveswe

Do gleen have a homepage? where can i see models and prices?


----------



## gibosi

Glenn is a custom builder. He will build whatever you want, as long as it is feasible and you can afford it. So there is no warehouse with a bunch of amps on the shelves.

His most common builds are an OTL and two transformer coupled amps, one based on the EL3N and the other based on the 300B. But if you would prefer an OTC amp based on the 45 he can build that too. And in each case, he can tweak these builds any way you want.

So I encourage you to think about what kind of amp you want and how much you are willing to spend, and then send him a PM.


----------



## davveswe

gibosi said:


> Glenn is a custom builder. He will build whatever you want, as long as it is feasible and you can afford it. So there is no warehouse with a bunch of amps on the shelves.
> 
> His most common builds are an OTL and two transformer coupled amps, one based on the EL3N and the other based on the 300B. But if you would prefer an OTC amp based on the 45 he can build that too. And in each case, he can tweak these builds any way you want.
> 
> So I encourage you to think about what kind of amp you want and how much you are willing to spend, and then send him a PM.




Thanks for the info. I guess the waiting time is pretty long then. Is glenn based in the US?


----------



## Monsterzero

Yes in USA

Wait varies.When I ordered mine he told me two months minimum,and then messaged me a cpl weeks later and said he was ready to build.I had to ask him to skip me so I could get $ together.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Both these tubes use the B4 base, which is the same as the U18/20. As you already have this adapter, you are good to go.




Thanks Ken, I was hoping this to be the case.


----------



## leftside

ZMF Auteurs are in the house. I really like these headphones. I think I still prefer the LCD-3’s - they just have more of a bass punch on tracks like Blue Monday by New Order. But, I could gladly live with the Auteurs. They are more comfortable than the LCD-3’s, so might be better for longer sessions. The HE-6 will go up for sale.


----------



## Monsterzero

Im jealous.


----------



## TonyNewman

Nice pics. I'm curious about the weights on top of the transformers. Are these to reduce hum? Do they help?


----------



## leftside

I moved the amp to another room in the house. This room has always been problematic with power line noise and also affects my Lampizator GA (the transformer hum for that was fixed with a Ava Humdinger). 

The very slight hum with the 300B was indeed fixed with those weights. Of course it never bothered me with music playing, but you know how obsessive we can all get...


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> ZMF Auteurs are in the house. I really like these headphones. I think I still prefer the LCD-3’s - they just have more of a bass punch on tracks like Blue Monday by New Order. But, I could gladly live with the Auteurs. They are more comfortable than the LCD-3’s, so might be better for longer sessions. The HE-6 will go up for sale.




I bet that sounds sounds wonderful.
Those blackwoods and that amp are gorgeous.

I have been rockin this combo for the most part of last week.  
 
gibosi has this same little amp...maybe he will post a picture of his, in it's advanced state  
The RS1 sounds great out of this little guy, such an easy headphone to amp and the synergy here is really nice.
It sounds much better than I remember, so I am sure the dac is helping tremendously.

I am back to the OTL and Atticus  for the weekend.

The Atticus is much bigger than RS1...the RS1 is light as a feather and very comfy for me.
I am lucky the pads do not bother my ears like they do some people.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> gibosi has this same little amp...maybe he will post a picture of his, in it's advanced state



"Advanced state"? My Little Dot has been transformed into a Little "Monster" Dot. lol


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> "Advanced state"? My Little Dot has been transformed into a Little "Monster" Dot. lol



Ha!  Indeed it has.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> "Advanced state"? My Little Dot has been transformed into a Little "Monster" Dot. lol



Looks like amperex 6DJ8 or E88CC?
Nice tube


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Looks like amperex 6DJ8 or E88CC?
> Nice tube



Yes, it is an 6DJ8. 

The Little Dot is designed to use a pair of 6AK5 pentodes, strapped as triodes, very similar to the way that the C3g is used. The 6AK5 is cheap and plentiful, but strapped as a triode, it is not a great tube for audio.

So I wanted to run "better" tubes and cobbled together a crude adapter to allow me to run 6DJ8 (and other double triodes) in the Little Dot.

And speaking of the C3g, here is the Little "Monster" Dot running a pair.


----------



## jekjek

E88CC is one of my favorite tube
Did you try 6AT6 in the little dot?
I found some old square getter tubes


----------



## gibosi

Yes, I rolled through a number of 6AQ6, 6AT6 and 6AV6. And I especially liked a pair of GE 6AV6 with square getters and a metal box shield mounted on the top mica

(These are essentially one-half of a 12AX7 with a double diode, that is, a Double Diode-Triode, designed for use in car radios. To use in the Little Dot, it is necessary to disable the diodes)


----------



## 2359glenn

Another tube tike this that you could use is the 6BF6 it is also a dual diode triode but with less gain like a 6SN7.
I think it sounds good and have used it in the past.


----------



## gibosi

For some reason, I don't listen to my LD anymore (I wonder why? lol ), so I haven't tried the 6BF6. However, about a year ago, you suggested this tube and I passed the information along in the Little Dot rolling thread. Unfortunately, no one has posted any impressions so I don't know if anyone over there tried it....


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> ...The very slight hum with the 300B was indeed fixed with those weights. Of course it never bothered me with music playing, but you know how obsessive we can all get...



One thing I should mention that might be of interest to folks contemplating SS vs tube rectification - I have never had a hum problem since moving to SS rectification. I used to have some issues from time to time and did the usual things (swap tubes around, use a power regenerator ... etc). Nothing worked as effectively as the change to SS rectification.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

whirlwind said:


> I bet that sounds sounds wonderful.
> Those blackwoods and that amp are gorgeous.
> 
> I have been rockin this combo for the most part of last week.
> ...


Wow that cocobolo wood is GORGEOUS...


----------



## JazzVinyl

jekjek said:


> E88CC is one of my favorite tube
> Did you try 6AT6 in the little dot?
> I found some old square getter tubes



Agree about the ECC88 - terrific sounding tube!

.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Agree about the ECC88 - terrific sounding tube!
> 
> .



Just finished your OTL amp sounding great.


----------



## Redmetal1897

2359glenn said:


> Just finished your OTL amp sounding great.



Congrats @JazzVinyl !! @2359glenn does that mean I am 2 or 3 away


----------



## jekjek

JazzVinyl said:


> Agree about the ECC88 - terrific sounding tube!
> 
> .



Congrats on your amp!


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Just finished your OTL amp sounding great.


WOW

The clear fashion trend here is Little-dot to Elise to Euroria to Glen.

You guys had love the Feliks-Audio to death a year ago. What's wrong with them? LOL


----------



## 2359glenn (Mar 18, 2018)

Daanish said:


> Congrats @JazzVinyl !! @2359glenn does that mean I am 2 or 3 away



There is 3 ahead of you a EL3N amp and a 300B amp might get started on yours as I am still waiting for the screwing chassis for the two amps.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> There is 2 ahead of you a EL3N amp and a 300B amp might get started on yours as I am still waiting for the screwing chassis for the two amps.


----------



## yates7592

2359glenn said:


> Just finished your OTL amp sounding great.


Great news for Jazz!


----------



## UntilThen

Finally JV.


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> WOW
> 
> The clear fashion trend here is Little-dot to Elise to Euroria to Glen.
> 
> You guys had love the Feliks-Audio to death a year ago. What's wrong with them? LOL


Absolutely nothing wrong with them. Very fine amps. I also don't think there was anything wrong with my previous audio gear, but I prefer my current audio gear over my previous.

I was quite active Friday and Saturday, so today is an extended music session. Currently at hour 4. It's rare I listen for such a long period of time, and I haven't even got to the Glenn yet. Mixing it up between vinyl and digital. It's a techno/electronic kinda day. Charlotte de Witte, Ancient Methods, I Hate Models, Anetha, Dax J, Amelie Lens, etc. So much good new music around these days that it's tough to keep up. Will move to the Blues and whisky later.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> There is 3 ahead of you a EL3N amp and a 300B amp might get started on yours as I am still waiting for the screwing chassis for the two amps.


Another 300B? Damn. The rarity just went down by 10%


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Just finished your OTL amp sounding great.



Wow!!  Fantastic!  Thanks Glenn (and everyone).

Can't wait to get the GOTL here


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> Another 300B? Damn. The rarity just went down by 10%



Not much love for the 300B <sigh>.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Wow!!  Fantastic!  Thanks Glenn (and everyone).
> 
> Can't wait to get the GOTL here



Later this week!!!!
Been playing with it sounds best with the 1633 driver and six 6BX7s


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Later this week!!!!
> Been playing with it sounds best with the 1633 driver and six 6BX7s



Fantastic, Glenn....

I have a lot of glass that want to meet  'er!


----------



## lukeap69

So excited for JV!


----------



## Phantaminum

I’m going to slowly start purchasing tubes for the GOTL I requested from Glenn. 

From my understanding, and reading the thread, is that it doesn’t matter if you mix and match 6BX7s correct? As long as they’re strong or NOS?  Or should I be looking out for matched pairs?

I’ll have to go back and read more on 6336, 5998, and 6080 tubes.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 18, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> it doesn’t matter if you mix and match 6BX7s correct?



It depends on who you talk to...  Some say it doesn't matter.

However, I am easily able to hear the difference between the different manufacturers. GE, Sylvania and Tung-Sol have spent the most time in my amp and to my ears, these brands sound quite different.

That said, I suspect that as long as you keep the left and right channels the same, mixing different brands will sound just fine. 

For example, UntilThen is running four Tung-Sol and two Fivre and he seems to really like that combination.


----------



## yates7592

gibosi said:


> However, I am easily able to hear the difference between the different manufacturers. GE, Sylvania and Tung-Sol have spent the most time in my amp and to my ears, these brands sound quite different.



Could you please summarise the differences you hear between these types of 6BX7 (and maybe RCA?).


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> For example, UntilThen is running four Tung-Sol and two Fivre and he seems to really like that combination.



Yes I happen to be using a Ken Rad 1633 and 2 Fivre + 4 Los Gatos (Tung Sol) 6BX7gt. I remember you alerted me to the Los Gatos which happen to be Tung Sol rebrand and the seller was in Australia. If I could get 6 Tung Sol or 6 Fivre 6BX7gt I would but getting a sextet of NOS 6BX7 of one brand is getting very hard these days.

For those wanting to get 6 6BX7, I would suggest getting NOS and try to pair the left and right with the same brand. I don't share much now. I'm reverting to my old passion of cycling again. The Specialised Roubaix is out of the shed again and last Sat ride after a long absence reminded me how good it is to feel the wind in my face and the acceleration as I switch to high gear. I feel young again. 

I have been burning my good power tubes lately. Namely Gec 6as7g, Gec 6080, Tung Sol 5998. Today after I read Gibosi's post, I swapped in the sextet 6BX7 and for driver I chose the inexpensive Ken Rad 1633. As good as the 'good' power tubes are, these sextet of 6BX7gt have me smiling in incredulity because it is going head to head with the much more expensive power tubes. In fact it is my belief that the 6BX7 and 6BL7 in a Glenn OTL is what makes it so special. This OTL amp from Glenn with those tubes are in another league.

Which brings me to a point raise by attmci. Yes a little more than 2 years ago, I was giving high praises to first Elise, then Euforia then La Fiagaro 339. In fact my first amp was a JDS Lab o2/odac driving a HD650, bought new out of my own pocket. That sounded very good back in May 2015. Not long after I bought a 2nd hand Dark Voice 336 and that was my introduction to a tube amp and I 'LOVE' the tube sound. Fall madly in love with it. Then I bought Elise and that was my 1st serious tube amp. Then came Euforia and it's much better. Then came La Figaro 339. This chinese amp sounds so good that if it were made in USA or Europe, it would have surely gain more market share. Then I bought Yggdrasil and Ragnarok which is a lot more expensive but the SQ is right out of this world. All this while though, I wanted a really good tube amp and I took a pun on Glenn's OTL amp because there were some good serious layman reviews.

Glenn's OTL prove to be in another league compared to all the amps I've owned. It is even up there with some high calibre amps like the Woo Audio Wa5 and Wa22. Yes I've audition Wa22 at the shop and like it but Glenn OTL is so much more pulse generating. I will be trimming my head-fi gear. Ragnarok and 2 of the headphones will have to go but the question is which.

Enjoy your music and I'll be looking out for your impressions @JazzVinyl . I think your amp will be identical to mine.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Yes I happen to be using a Ken Rad 1633 and 2 Fivre + 4 Los Gatos (Tung Sol) 6BX7gt. I remember you alerted me to the Los Gatos which happen to be Tung Sol rebrand and the seller was in Australia. If I could get 6 Tung Sol or 6 Fivre 6BX7gt I would but getting a sextet of NOS 6BX7 of one brand is getting very hard these days.
> 
> For those wanting to get 6 6BX7, I would suggest getting NOS and try to pair the left and right with the same brand. I don't share much now. I'm reverting to my old passion of cycling again. The Specialised Roubaix is out of the shed again and last Sat ride after a long absence reminded me how good it is to feel the wind in my face and the acceleration as I switch to high gear. I feel young again.
> 
> ...



Yes JV's amp is identical to yours with a regular pot for volume and no 5998 switch.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Wow!!  Fantastic!  Thanks Glenn (and everyone).
> 
> Can't wait to get the GOTL here


 

Congrats, it won't be long now.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Yes I happen to be using a Ken Rad 1633 and 2 Fivre + 4 Los Gatos (Tung Sol) 6BX7gt. I remember you alerted me to the Los Gatos which happen to be Tung Sol rebrand and the seller was in Australia. If I could get 6 Tung Sol or 6 Fivre 6BX7gt I would but getting a sextet of NOS 6BX7 of one brand is getting very hard these days.
> 
> For those wanting to get 6 6BX7, I would suggest getting NOS and try to pair the left and right with the same brand. I don't share much now. I'm reverting to my old passion of cycling again. The Specialised Roubaix is out of the shed again and last Sat ride after a long absence reminded me how good it is to feel the wind in my face and the acceleration as I switch to high gear. I feel young again.
> 
> ...


Hi UT,

You did not mention the Prima Luna in your tube amp odyssey....

I like biking too, but on a much more modest level. Trying to get out every week for a few miles, even in the winter here. There are walking/cycling trails that are plowed in the winter and it is possible to ride, but I try to ride only when above freezing....And mostly on level trails; old railroad trails are the best because at most there is a 2% grade.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> You did not mention the Prima Luna in your tube amp odyssey....



I did not because the Primaluna Premium Dialogue HP is more of a stereo tube amp than a headphone amp. Even though it function very well as a headphone amp but it's impractical to have that 30kgs amp sitting on my desktop. It is very well made though with a switch to go from ultralinear to triode mode and another switch to go from stereo to headphone mode. Using 8 EL34 or KT88 or KT150 and 8 12AU7, the tube glow is fascinating and lovely to look at but it gets hot.

This is a picture when I was auditioning it with the Redgum and Ragnarok in the comfort of my home. The latter is not in the picture.


----------



## UntilThen

Using Ken Rad 1633 with 6 x 6BX7 there's a very soft hum so I switch out the 1633 for a ECC31 and it's magic and silent.

I can't believe that a ECC31 and 6 x 6BX7 sounds so good in my OTL amp and it's so quiet. I'll take quiet combinations first. That's my first priority.

So far, the 2 drivers that are quietest with 6 x 6BX7 in my OTL amp are ECC31 and Sylvania 6SN7w metal base. Fortunately they are 2 of my favourite drivers.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Yes I happen to be using a Ken Rad 1633 and 2 Fivre + 4 Los Gatos (Tung Sol) 6BX7gt. I remember you alerted me to the Los Gatos which happen to be Tung Sol rebrand and the seller was in Australia. If I could get 6 Tung Sol or 6 Fivre 6BX7gt I would but getting a sextet of NOS 6BX7 of one brand is getting very hard these days.
> 
> For those wanting to get 6 6BX7, I would suggest getting NOS and try to pair the left and right with the same brand. I don't share much now. I'm reverting to my old passion of cycling again. The Specialised Roubaix is out of the shed again and last Sat ride after a long absence reminded me how good it is to feel the wind in my face and the acceleration as I switch to high gear. I feel young again.
> 
> ...


I was not talking about u, but welcome back.  I believe JC, Mordy all jumped ship recently.


----------



## musicman59

UntilThen said:


> I did not because the Primaluna Premium Dialogue HP is more of a stereo tube amp than a headphone amp. Even though it function very well as a headphone amp but it's impractical to have that 30kgs amp sitting on my desktop. It is very well made though with a switch to go from ultralinear to triode mode and another switch to go from stereo to headphone mode. Using 8 EL34 or KT88 or KT150 and 8 12AU7, the tube glow is fascinating and lovely to look at but it gets hot.
> 
> This is a picture when I was auditioning it with the Redgum and Ragnarok in the comfort of my home. The latter is not in the picture.


I guess I might be crazy because I bought it with the sole objective to use it as headphones amp.
It is not on my desktop but in an audio rack with my 2 channel system.
I have it fitted with NOS Siemens EL-34 and NOS Millard 12AX7 tubes. 
Totally love the sound!


----------



## UntilThen

musicman59 said:


> I guess I might be crazy because I bought it with the sole objective to use it as headphones amp.
> It is not on my desktop but in an audio rack with my 2 channel system.
> I have it fitted with NOS Siemens EL-34 and NOS Millard 12AX7 tubes.
> Totally love the sound!



It did sound very good with HD800 but I was only using KT88. I believe EL34 would have sounded better.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Was at an antique store over the weekend and found this gem. Had to buy this pin and wanted to share it specifically with you guys!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Time to hot glue it to the front of that volume knob.


----------



## gibosi

yates7592 said:


> Could you please summarise the differences you hear between these types of 6BX7 (and maybe RCA?).



I am not all that skilled when it comes to describing sonic differences...

However, I would like to make an observation...

To my ears, there is something that might be described as a "house sound." That is, there is a Sylvania "house sound", a GE "house sound" and so on. For example, most if not all Sylvania tubes have a somewhat similar sound, which might be described as very lively with sparkly highs. Of course, a metal-based 6SN7W and a chrome-top 6SN7GTA do not sound identical, but they do share a Sylvania "house sound." Even a Sylvania 27 manufactured in 1930 shares this same "house sound." And accordingly, so does the Sylvania 6BX7...

So I would say that the 6BX7 that I have tried are good representatives of their respective manufacturer's "house sound". If you have some experience rolling GE, RCA, Tung-Sol and Fivre double triodes, then you can somewhat predict the general sound of 6BX7s from those manufacturers.

And I might add, this appears to be true for rectifiers as well. Mullard rectifiers and Mullard double triodes sound similar, that is, they share a Mullard "house sound."  And in my experience, the same can be said of rectifiers and double triodes from RCA, GEC, Telefunken, Valvo, Holland-made Philips and on and on....

Again, this is very general, but when it comes to the sound of rectifiers and double triodes, I find this concept of a "house sound" to be very useful...


----------



## leftside

JV you are going to love the Glenn with vinyl. I presume the OTL sounds similar to the 300B (more power in the 300B). Straight out the box you should find it very airy and spacious with excellent imaging. Combine that with the warmth of vinyl and you are going to be in for a treat.

UT - glad to see you are on the bike again. After another fabulous ski and snowboard season, the snow on the lower parts of the mountains is beginning to melt again and I too was back on the (mountain) bike this weekend.

Regarding the 6BX7's. I wasn't too bothered about brands, but the construction had to match. Beware - this is a never ending rabbit hole. There are many different slight variations......


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Using Ken Rad 1633 with 6 x 6BX7 there's a very soft hum so I switch out the 1633 for a ECC31 and it's magic and silent.
> 
> I can't believe that a ECC31 and 6 x 6BX7 sounds so good in my OTL amp and it's so quiet. I'll take quiet combinations first. That's my first priority.
> 
> So far, the 2 drivers that are quietest with 6 x 6BX7 in my OTL amp are ECC31 and Sylvania 6SN7w metal base. Fortunately they are 2 of my favourite drivers.



Holy crap, you only have two quiet drivers out of all of those drivers you have ?

Or are they the quietest ones when using the 6BX7...I would not think it would matter what power tubes were used.  ??


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Holy crap, you only have two quiet drivers out of all of those drivers you have ?
> 
> Or are they the quietest ones when using the 6BX7...I would not think it would matter what power tubes were used.  ??



I'm very picky. Tube combinations have to be really quiet for me. Those 2 drivers are very quiet with 6bx7. 

6 x 6bx7 in my OTL tend to be a bit erratic. With some of my other drivers, there are some noise. Drivers such as Tung Sol 6F8g, FDD20, ECC33, C3g. I have a pair of c3g that is pretty quiet with 6 x 6bx7. That is a relief for me because I have 3 pairs of NOS c3g but only one pair is quiet with 6 x 6bx7.

There's some consolation. All those other magnificent drivers (Tung Sol 6F8g, FDD20, ECC33, Gec B36) are quiet when paired with power tubes such as Gec 6as7g, Gec 6080, Tung Sol 5998 and Cetron 6336. Very quiet with Svetlana 6h13c too.

One of my favourite combo is FDD20 with a pair of Tung Sol 5998. 

Right now I'm using ECC31 with 6 x 6BX7gt using Eikon. Very quiet. Very well behaved and the sound is dripping with honey. This setup is vibrant and ALIVE. It's tantalising on the ears. Listening to music on such a setup is like an aphrodisiac.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I'm very picky. Tube combinations have to be really quiet for me. Those 2 drivers are very quiet with 6bx7.
> 
> 6 x 6bx7 in my OTL tend to be a bit erratic. With some of my other drivers, there are some noise. Drivers such as Tung Sol 6F8g, FDD20, ECC33, C3g. I have a pair of c3g that is pretty quiet with 6 x 6bx7. That is a relief for me because I have 3 pairs of NOS c3g but only one pair is quiet with 6 x 6bx7.
> 
> ...


Matt, how about 4x6bl7 or bx7?


----------



## wazzupi (Mar 20, 2018)

Glenn please check pms.


----------



## Phantaminum

wazzupi said:


> Please reply to pm



I’ve bought a few 6BX7s. Is there any difference between the GEs square-getters compared to the O-Getters?


----------



## wazzupi

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve bought a few 6BX7s. Is there any difference between the GEs square-getters compared to the O-Getters?


Lol hi


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 20, 2018)

wazzupi said:


> Lol hi



Oops didn’t mean to quote you, lol. Looks like we’re in the same tube purchasing journey.

 #tubebros


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve bought a few 6BX7s. Is there any difference between the GEs square-getters compared to the O-Getters?



Not that I have noticed. Still, I try to run sets that have the same construction, if possible.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Right now I'm using ECC31 with 6 x 6BX7gt using Eikon. Very quiet. Very well behaved and the sound is dripping with honey. This setup is vibrant and ALIVE. It's tantalising on the ears. Listening to music on such a setup is like an aphrodisiac.



Have had the ECC31 in the driver's seat for awhile now. Really enjoy this tube. 
Great with the 6BX7, but still prefer the Cetron 6336B with this tube. Outstanding and dead quiet.
Was always great at the lower half of the spectrum, after the long burn period, the ECC31 high end is improving also.
Tonal balance is now really fine with this combination, also clean, open, dynamic and natural. Surpasses C3g is some ways.
Looking forward to hearing the EL3N, but that won't happen until I get the GEL3N.
If I see one of the other drivers you have recommended, like the FDD20, I'll give those a try.
Overall, not having any noise issues with the drivers I have.


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 20, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I'm very picky. Tube combinations have to be really quiet for me. Those 2 drivers are very quiet with 6bx7.
> 
> 6 x 6bx7 in my OTL tend to be a bit erratic. With some of my other drivers, there are some noise. Drivers such as Tung Sol 6F8g, FDD20, ECC33, C3g. I have a pair of c3g that is pretty quiet with 6 x 6bx7. That is a relief for me because I have 3 pairs of NOS c3g but only one pair is quiet with 6 x 6bx7.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the reply, I may have to re-think my configuration.

Pretty much all of my driver tubes are silent in our current configuration of OTL...only noise is from a few microphonic tubes, other than that...back round black as midnight.  

I could pass on the six power tube sockets if it means extra noise with my drivers.

I will give this some thought.

Thanks UT.

That is the great thing about the EL3N amp in one tube mode...blackest of black back round, nothing in the signal path.


----------



## mordy

Regarding noise and hum it occurs to me that the electrical environment where you live plays a role - would not be surprised if the same amp that is dead quiet by somebody might exhibit hum in another location.
In other words, it may not be the fault of the amp if it is noisy in one place and quiet in another; what are your thoughts?
I am saying this because some people never seem to have noise and hum problems, and others always report problems, until they finally find the culprit  - or give up.....


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Regarding noise and hum it occurs to me that the electrical environment where you live plays a role - would not be surprised if the same amp that is dead quiet by somebody might exhibit hum in another location.
> In other words, it may not be the fault of the amp if it is noisy in one place and quiet in another; what are your thoughts?
> I am saying this because some people never seem to have noise and hum problems, and others always report problems, until they finally find the culprit  - or give up.....




Absolutely it does.

Many things can contribute/cause this.

I have had a cordless phone cause trouble in the past.

Thing is, still the more tubes the greater chance of noise in the back round...but if you listen with tubes you have to understand this is part of it...no way around it.


----------



## leftside

Different noises in different rooms in my house. The "noisiest" was the Lampizator GA in one particular room. In another room it is totally silent - so much so that you wouldn't even know it's on - even with the preamp at max volume (with no music playing). Funnily enough, more expensive, better made transformers seem more susceptible to hum type noises.

I have 5 pieces of tube gear with a total of 29 tubes (6 in the Glenn, 5 in the DAC, 8 in the preamp and 5 in each amp) in one room, and all running almost silent - with a few mods such as the Ava Humdinger for the DAC.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Regarding noise and hum it occurs to me that the electrical environment where you live plays a role - would not be surprised if the same amp that is dead quiet by somebody might exhibit hum in another location.
> In other words, it may not be the fault of the amp if it is noisy in one place and quiet in another; what are your thoughts?
> I am saying this because some people never seem to have noise and hum problems, and others always report problems, until they finally find the culprit  - or give up.....



Agree.


----------



## 2359glenn

Boxing up JV's amp for shipment tomorrow.
Supposed to snow hope the post office is open they usually are.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I could pass on the six power tube sockets if it means extra noise with my drivers.



I don't think it is simply the fact that there are six power tube sockets. The 6BL7 / 6BX7 have considerably more gain than a 6AS7, and therefore, they are more susceptible to picking up stray noise. In my experience with these tubes, I have found the best practice is to have on hand about twice as many as I need. I can then roll through them to build a quiet set.


----------



## lukeap69

IME, my 5998's have been the noisiest tubes I have and moving them to another pair of sockets lessen the noise to almost unnoticeable. My 6BX7' and 6BL7's have been all quiet and I have quite a few.


----------



## mordy

In a Glenn OTL with six power tube sockets, does it make a difference in which of the three positions you insert the tubes if you use just one pair - as an example the Cetron 6336B?


----------



## gibosi

My guess...  tubes installed in the position farthest from the transformer just might be quieter. But perhaps someone with 6 outputs can test this...


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Boxing up JV's amp for shipment tomorrow.
> Supposed to snow hope the post office is open they usually are.



Thanks, Glenn!

Hope the weather cooperates.  Will be an anxious few days....


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> In a Glenn OTL with six power tube sockets, does it make a difference in which of the three positions you insert the tubes if you use just one pair - as an example the Cetron 6336B?



Have been using the Cetron 6336B in the back or middle row. 
No difference with my pairs in this amp.


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> ... That is the great thing about the EL3N amp in one tube mode...blackest of black back round, nothing in the signal path.



Very much looking forward to this.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Thanks for the reply, I may have to re-think my configuration.
> 
> Pretty much all of my driver tubes are silent in our current configuration of OTL...only noise is from a few microphonic tubes, other than that...back round black as midnight.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't pass up on 6 x 6BL7 or 6BX7 in the OTL. When it mates well with a driver and it's quiet, this is a singing and dancing troupe. This configuration also gives you the utmost flexibility.

I have so many combinations that works and that are quiet. The few that does not work well does not perturb me. I will do a spreadsheet of the combinations that works for me and that are quiet. You will see that there are far too many good tones. GOTL sounds so good now I don't use Ragnarok anymore.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Matt, how about 4x6bl7 or bx7?



Attmci I have not really run with 4 x 6bl7 or 6bx7. I did it only once.

Will try it tonight.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> ... I did it only once...



That's what they all say.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I don't think it is simply the fact that there are six power tube sockets. The 6BL7 / 6BX7 have considerably more gain than a 6AS7, and therefore, they are more susceptible to picking up stray noise. In my experience with these tubes, I have found the best practice is to have on hand about twice as many as I need. I can then roll through them to build a quiet set.




Yeah, I have plenty...but UT is talking about the drivers being noisy when using the 6BX7/6BL7 ?
Not that the 6BX7 are noisy.

Usually I leave my power tubes in for quite a while before rolling them...I roll more drivers than powers.


2359glenn said:


> Boxing up JV's amp for shipment tomorrow.
> Supposed to snow hope the post office is open they usually are.




Snowing pretty hard here right now....maybe our biggest of the year...I have had enough!


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 21, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I wouldn't pass up on 6 x 6BL7 or 6BX7 in the OTL. When it mates well with a driver and it's quiet, this is a singing and dancing troupe. This configuration also gives you the utmost flexibility.
> 
> I have so many combinations that works and that are quiet. The few that does not work well does not perturb me. I will do a spreadsheet of the combinations that works for me and that are quiet. You will see that there are far too many good tones. GOTL sounds so good now I don't use Ragnarok anymore.




Maybe I misunderstood...I thought you said you only had *two* driver tubes that were quiet when using the 6BL7/6BX7 tubes.

So basically then, you have a few noisy 6BX7/6BL7 when using certain driver tubes.
maybe different 6BX7/6BL7 would fix that.


----------



## yates7592

JazzVinyl said:


> Oh, that one is easy for me....
> 
> Others not around: HP.
> Sociable / sharing with others: Speakers



Complete polar opposite for me. My missus f-in hates my music, so:
wife in = headphones
wife out = let music out of the box


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Maybe I misunderstood...I thought you said you only had *two* driver tubes that were quiet when using the 6BL7/6BX7 tubes.



When I talk about quietness I'm referring to _*total silence*_ when no music is playing. 2 drivers does that when paired with 6 x 6BX7. They are ECC31 and Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. A 3rd driver came very close to total silence with 6 x 6BX7. That's one Telefunken c3g and one Siemens c3g.

With the other drivers (FDD20, ECC33, Gec B36, Tung Sol 6F8G) paired with the same 6 x 6BX7, I get some noise. It's quite soft noise that are heard only when no music is playing. Most people probably wouldn't be too concerned with this but like I say, I'm picky.

Now these same drivers (FDD20, ECC33, Gec B36 and Tung Sol 6F8G) would be totally quiet with Gec 6as7g, Gec 6080, Tung Sol 5998 and Cetron 6336b, etc.

So it's clear that there are no problems with those drivers or power tubes because they are totally quiet in certain combinations. Why is it so I don't know but I know I have enough totally silent combinations to keep me happy.

Top of my favourite combinations:-

Telefunken c3g/s + Siemens c3g and 6 x 6BX7

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6BX7

Mullard ECC31 and 6 x 6BX7

ECC33 and Tung Sol 5998 or Cetron 6336b

FDD20 and Tung Sol 5998 or Cetron 6336b

Gec B36 and Gec 6as7g

Tung Sol 6F8g and Gec 6080 or Gec 6as7g

There are many other good combinations that are totally silent but I'm not going to list them all. Drivers would also include Brimar 13D1, Ken Rad 1633, Marconi B36 and power tubes include Bendix 6080wb, Tung Sol 7236, RCA 6as7g, Svetlana 6h13c.

I have 3 sets of 6BX7 and 6BL7. They are all NOS and totally quiet with ECC31, Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and c3g.

1. 2 x Fivre 6BX7 and 4 Los Gatos 6BX7
2. 6 x GE 6BX7
3. 6 x Sylvania 6BL7gt/gta


----------



## UntilThen

The truth is I get really tired talking about tubes now. All I want to do is power on the OTL and play some music but some tube combinations stirs my jollies more than others. The combination that is moving me now is c3g with 6 x 6BX7gt.


----------



## yates7592 (Mar 21, 2018)

I have the opportunity to buy some NOS NIB Fivre 6BX7GT, see photos below. I can see the Fivre logo on the other side of the tube, but what concerns me slightly is the 'Distributed by GBC' label. Does this mean they're not true Fivre and maybe a re-brand of some type? I have googled but nothing has come up for me. I'm guessing @gibosi will know if anybody here does!


----------



## mordy (Mar 21, 2018)

yates7592 said:


> I have the opportunity to buy some NOS NIB Fivre 6BX7GT, see photos below. I can see the Fivre logo on the other side of the tube, but what concerns me slightly is the 'Distributed by GBC' label. Does this mean they're not true Fivre and maybe a re-brand of some type? I have googled but nothing has come up for me. I'm guessing @gibosi will know if anybody here does!


These are the ones that UT has - look at the picture to compare if they are the same.




I also want to mention that there are Japanese made 6BX7 tubes that you sometimes can find, perhaps under the Channel Master label. Haven't heard them, but Japanse tubes many times are high quality and some of the tubes were made with Mullard derived equipment.


----------



## yates7592 (Mar 21, 2018)

To my untrained eye they do look quite similar internally, labelling aside. Regarding labelling, I have found quite a few different layouts and designs on Google, so it's clearly not a consistent finish tube to tube. Regarding the tube itself, all Fivre tubes I can find have the clear top rather than chrome top of GE/RCA et al. Maybe these are later versions with different labels?


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, I have plenty...but UT is talking about the drivers being noisy when using the 6BX7/6BL7 ?
> Not that the 6BX7 are noisy.
> 
> Usually I leave my power tubes in for quite a while before rolling them...I roll more drivers than powers.
> ...



The problem with noisy drivers is the gain of the output tubes.
6AS7 gain 2
6BX7 gain 10
6Bl7  gain  15
The gain of the output tube amplifies any noise from the driver tube. So the more gain in the output tube the quieter the driver has to be.
I recommend the 6BX7 over the 6BL7 due to lower gain these are very similar tubes and sound close.


----------



## 2359glenn

yates7592 said:


> I have the opportunity to buy some NOS NIB Fivre 6BX7GT, see photos below. I can see the Fivre logo on the other side of the tube, but what concerns me slightly is the 'Distributed by GBC' label. Does this mean they're not true Fivre and maybe a re-brand of some type? I have googled but nothing has come up for me. I'm guessing @gibosi will know if anybody here does!



They do not look like GE , RCA , or Sylvania.


----------



## 2359glenn

I think I am going to take tonight off mostly going to put @Monsterzero chassis together and then rest.
Just got back from shipping JV's amp.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> I think I am going to take tonight off mostly going to put @Monsterzero chassis together and then rest.



While I am looking forward to having my Monster Eleven amp,I do understand how it is to not feel well.Do not push yourself on my account.Work on it when youre up to it.


----------



## exdmd

2359glenn said:


> They do not look like GE , RCA , or Sylvania.



Take a look at https://tubeworldexpress.com/search?q=6BX7GT


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> I have the opportunity to buy some NOS NIB Fivre 6BX7GT, see photos below. I can see the Fivre logo on the other side of the tube, but what concerns me slightly is the 'Distributed by GBC' label. Does this mean they're not true Fivre and maybe a re-brand of some type? I have googled but nothing has come up for me. I'm guessing @gibosi will know if anybody here does!



They are Fivre 6BX7. Identical to mine. Clear sounding tubes. I like them. I have 3.


----------



## yates7592 (Mar 21, 2018)

Thanks very much! I was heading towards the conclusion they were legit but with confirmation will pull the trigger.


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 21, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> The problem with noisy drivers is the gain of the output tubes.
> 6AS7 gain 2
> 6BX7 gain 10
> 6Bl7  gain  15
> ...



OK...this makes sense
Thanks for the explanation Glenn.

I liked the HD800 with just 4  6BX7 tubes...seemed plenty for high impedance cans.

When I tried to use six 6BX7 it was hardly ever quiet....this was with the adapters though.
Noise always seemed to be from the 6BX7/6BL7 tubes though...never a driver tube.

I assumed the adapters may have been the problem, but I really have no idea.
Tubes that were noisy with six...were quiet with four.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> OK...this makes sense
> Thanks for the explanation Glenn.
> 
> I liked the HD800 with just 4  6BX7 tubes...seemed plenty for high impedance cans.
> ...



As Glenn points out, the 6BL7 and 6BX7 have significantly more gain than a 6AS7, that is, they provide more amplification. Therefore, when used as output tubes, they are going to be more sensitive to noise, be it circuit noise, driver noise, RF noise, or what have you. So it is not a surprise that a driver that is perfectly quiet with a 6AS7 might have a bit of background noise with a set of 6BX7.

For sure, those of us who use adapters often experience noise problems. However, when Glenn builds an amp to use six of these tubes, he adds extra circuitry to ensure that all the output tubes are balanced, and as a result, there are fewer problems. And they are quieter.


----------



## gibosi

yates7592 said:


> I have the opportunity to buy some NOS NIB Fivre 6BX7GT, see photos below. I can see the Fivre logo on the other side of the tube, but what concerns me slightly is the 'Distributed by GBC' label. Does this mean they're not true Fivre and maybe a re-brand of some type? I have googled but nothing has come up for me. I'm guessing @gibosi will know if anybody here does!



As others have verified, yes, these are Fivre with clear tops with bottom getters. The only major difference that I see among Fivre 6BX7 is that some have taller bottles, such as the ones in your pictures.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GOTL question for Glenn/all:

Can a pair of 7N7’s be used in the C3g sockets?


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> GOTL question for Glenn/all:
> 
> Can a pair of 7N7’s be used in the C3g sockets?



No. While the 7N7 and C3g both use the loctal base, the 7N7 is electrically identical to a 6SN7. And therefore, you need only one, plugged into the SN7 octal socket via an adapter

Also, sometimes you can find 14N7s fairly cheap and these are equivalent to the 12SN7. So again, an adapter, set the voltage switch to 12 volts and you are good to go.


----------



## UntilThen

Start of the weekend and time to spin a perfectly great sounding combo that is also deadly silent with ZMF Eikon closed back headphone. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and Tung Sol 5998. If I had no other tubes, I would have been totally content with just these. These are NOS tubes and I take utmost care with it.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 23, 2018)

Sophie has arrived - safe and sound. Compliments to Glenn, he really knows how to stabilize this heavy item for safe transit!!  Bomb proof shipping, thanks, Glenn!!

My amp functions perfectly.  No hums noises or problems of any kind. 

Running 6x 6BL7’s and my beloved FDD20 -

Glenn warned me that “what I thought I knew” about a particular tubes’ sound signature by listening to in another amp would not apply to listening to the same tube in his amp. 

And he was right!!!   I thought I knew 6x 6BL7 and FDD20.  But oh my, Glenn takes the other amps goodness and ups the game by a Saturn V rocket margin. 

More details
More layers
Thicker, more nuanced  and precise sound stage
More room between instruments
More authority and precision

Its like my headphones just got a hell of a lot better!!

Thanks, Glenn!  You are a national treasure, I am honored to own your amp.  I will care for it and enjoy it, for many years to come!!

Cheers !


----------



## ru4music

JazzVinyl said:


> Sophie has arrived - safe and sound. Compliments to Glenn, he really knows how to stabilize this heavy item for safe transit!!  Bomb proof shipping, thanks, Glenn!!
> 
> My amp functions perfectly.  No hums noises or problems of any kind.
> 
> ...



Off to the moon you go then!  Congrats on the new amp and try to keep your feet on the ground unlike a Tesla Roadster on a Falcon Heavy.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Sophie has arrived - safe and sound. Compliments to Glenn, he really knows how to stabilize this heavy item for safe transit!!  Bomb proof shipping, thanks, Glenn!!
> 
> My amp functions perfectly.  No hums noises or problems of any kind.
> 
> ...



JV glad you like your new amp!!!
Wasn't supposed to be there until tomorrow.
How do you like that multi voltage switch FDD20 just switch to 12 no external power supply neat ha.
Enjoy your music weekend
Glenn


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 23, 2018)

Listening to vinyl....OMG....










Name a song that mentions "tube glow" in the lyrics...

I just head Linda Ronstadt's "Carmelita" - which has the lyric:

"I hear Mariachi static on my radio
And the tubes,  they glow in the dark"


Cheers!!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 23, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> JV glad you like your new amp!!!
> Wasn't supposed to be there until tomorrow.
> How do you like that multi voltage switch FDD20 just switch to 12 no external power supply neat ha.
> Enjoy your music weekend
> Glenn



Hello Glenn!!

Yes, surprised it came a day early! How lucky am I?

I love the amp. I love the way it sounds, I love the Multi-Voltage driver switch, I love the dedicated C3g sockets, I love 6x 6BL7 as powers! I love the way it will not suffer from 'heat stroke' like another amp I know....I love the quality look of it, too.

The whole rig is genius! I truly feel like my life is greatly enhanced by owning this superb sounding deck,

Thank you, Glenn!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> The whole rig is genius! I truly feel like my life is greatly enhanced by owning this superb sounding deck,



An outstanding OTL amp in my opinion. Life changing properties are a bonus. 

You'll be tempted to roll in all your tubes just to hear how they sound and you as you've discovered for yourself, they sound much better than in other amps.

Enjoy and keep the impressions coming.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Glenn!!
> 
> Yes, surprised it came a day early! How lucky am I?
> 
> ...



Glad you like
And the tube rolling begins


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> An outstanding OTL amp in my opinion. Life changing properties are a bonus.
> 
> You'll be tempted to roll in all your tubes just to hear how they sound and you as you've discovered for yourself, they sound much better than in other amps.
> 
> Enjoy and keep the impressions coming.



Your absolutely right about the tubes sounding much better in this deck!

I am busy grabbing out vinyl from the vinyl vault.  I like jazz flautists and have some Yusef Lateef on now. Has NEVER sounded this life like.

I have had my youngest daughter living downstairs, the past year and a half (to save up for a house down payment) she is signing on her first house this weekend - so will be getting my analog den back to myself 

Because she has been down there for the past 1.5 years.....didn't get to play as much vinyl as I normally do, so I am like a man in the desert who has found water 

Glenn's amp does wonders for vinyl, so rather than tube roll, think I will be spinning the black waffles, for a good while. 

Life is good!!


----------



## leftside

Cough, cough.... told ya


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Glad you like
> And the tube rolling begins



Your amp produces beautiful, natural organic sound, Glenn!  Al Jarreau's "She's leaving home" - on vinyl,  incredible....sounds like am in in the studio with the band.

Tight, deep fat bass...just like when your at a show in an acoustically perfect club....


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Cough, cough.... told ya


 
Yeah man!, Good GOSH this is good!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Running 6x 6BL7’s and my beloved FDD20 -



I'm also running FDD20 with 6 x 6BX7 and it's quiet now ! 

Love this combo.


----------



## yates7592

Those FDD20 look beautiful. Enjoy your new toy JV!


----------



## lukeap69

leftside said:


> Cough, cough.... told ya



Hey, that's my line! 

Congrats JV. What a lovely looking (and I am sure sounding) amp Sophie is! Enjoy.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm thinking of a GEL3N or a Glenn 2A3 amp but first my Ragnarok has to go. It's in the aussie classified.

In the meantime, the LCD-2f is sounding incredible with this tube...


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 24, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Sophie has arrived - safe and sound. Compliments to Glenn, he really knows how to stabilize this heavy item for safe transit!!  Bomb proof shipping, thanks, Glenn!!
> 
> My amp functions perfectly.  No hums noises or problems of any kind.
> 
> ...




Congrats 

The authority and the ease of Glenns amps to make music is quite a wonderful thing...huh.

Enjoy!

It is great to see more people enjoying Glenn's amps.  They are so well deserving.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I will probably end up have to send Glenn a bill...

Keep having to pick by bottom jaw up off the floor...having landed there in sonic amazement....

It's prolly gonna break soon, in one of the falls...


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> I will probably end up have to send Glenn a bill...
> 
> Keep having to pick by bottom jaw up off the floor...having landed there in sonic amazement....
> 
> It's prolly gonna break soon, in one of the falls...


Your silly
Glad your still liking the amp. Makes me feel good when somebody loves the sound of one of my amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

You know you can use four 6AS7, 6080 or 5998s in the amp you have 13 amps of filament current to play with.
Don't try 6 though to much current


----------



## Hansotek

JazzVinyl said:


> I will probably end up have to send Glenn a bill...
> 
> Keep having to pick by bottom jaw up off the floor...having landed there in sonic amazement....
> 
> It's prolly gonna break soon, in one of the falls...



A great tube amp + vinyl is a tough combo to beat. Glad you are enjoying your new GOTL!


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> You know you can use four 6AS7, 6080 or 5998s in the amp you have 13 amps of filament current to play with.
> Don't try 6 though to much current



Yes thanks.  

I am aware of the many tube combinations that are enabled via 13 amps of heater current. And I have tried 4x 6AS7 and 6AS7/6080... However, it seems to me that after you have heard 6x 6BL7 that the 6AS7 and 6080 family...are missing a whole lot of something. They sound good and all, but something is scooped out that is there via the 6BL7's....solidity of bass? An area of upper bass?  A whole sub sonic octave below audible bass?  Not sure exactly what it is, but the 6AS7/6080 just don't do it for my 'phones the same way that 6BL7 does.

I do see that the six pack of 6BL7's and drivers that have a lot of gain can almost be too much gain.  Might have to consider padding down some sources to enjoy more room on the pot to adjust volume.

But, so far with every source the amp has proven that it is a big leap in clarity compared to what I was used to. 

My wife listened to Steve Tyrell - his rendering of "Close To You",  she grinned ear to ear and her foot tapped.  When the song was done, she pointed at the GOTL and said ."that did THAT?" Meaning...that tube amp thingy made that sound sooooooooo stinkin' good?  I said yes.  She walked around the house for two hours joyfully singing "Close To You"....

Amp makes all drivers sound good.  It's hard to decide what you like best, so many great options....


----------



## UntilThen

JV, I don't think you're going to get much done for a few weeks. Perhaps a few months.

I too wanted to listen to vinyl so I moved Yggdrasil and Ragnarok out to the lounge with the speakers so I can move the Rega and Pioneer into the room with GOTL. Then I got stuck in the lounge listening to Ragnarok belting out tunes hard and fast and loud on my tower speakers. It's incredible that Rag did this and it's a good contrast with the much more powerful Redgum amp. I think I have to withdraw the Rag from sale. 

Here's the lounge setup for now.

 

Then I move into the room and started listening to the Love Over Gold album and GOTL sounds really good with Atticus. I think I will spend today listening to my LPs.


----------



## UntilThen

Facepalm ! I put this picture up to sell my Ragnarok and got a reply. Not on the Rag but on the GOTL. Responder wants to know what that tube amp is and if it is good with the HD800.

Ok. If I can't sell the Rag, I might as well help to promote the GOTL. ... which happens to be the best sounding tube amp I've heard with HD800.... and my Eikon, Atticus and LCD-2f.


----------



## 2359glenn (Mar 24, 2018)

JV You might try six 6BX7 they have a little less gain and sound similar to the 6BL7.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UT - the GOTL and vinyl...is out of this world.  I just listened to Led Zeppelin III - loud, the way it is supposed to be heard.  This amp pulls out details in music I know like the back of my hand.  It is stunning. I become emotional listening to an album I have heard thousands of times before.

GOTL has enormous authority.  It brings it on, never clogs or sputters.  How is it possible that I have near heard this music this way, with this much drive and emotion.  That musical effort is laid at your feet.  You cannot deny thier charms, you must get aboard and go.  Go along the journey and be one with the musicians.

New Age, Rock, Blues, Jazz, World, it is all being laid open, bare chested, you can smell the sweat, feel that bass moving your chair, you feel the soul, the living breathing heartbeat....

The instruments sound natural, exactly the way they sound when played live in the room you are in.  Uncanny realism...

I am so pleased to own this magical tube amp!!!!

Thank you, Glenn!!!  You are a national treasure!!

Have fun with the vinyl, UT...!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> JV You might try six 6BX7 they have a little less gain and sound similar to the 6BL7.



Yes, but some of my BX's have horrid and strange noises.  Have ordered some more, but won't be here until next week.  

Amp is amazing!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

UT - listen to all 4 sites of The Who's "Quadrophenia" if you have time...that is a heck of a musical adventure.  
The vinyl is sooooo good.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> UT - the GOTL and vinyl...is out of this world.  I just listened to Led Zeppelin III - loud, the way it is supposed to be heard.  This amp pulls out details in music I know like the back of my hand.  It is stunning. I become emotional listening to an album I have heard thousands of times before.
> 
> GOTL has enormous authority.  It brings it on, never clogs or sputters.  How is it possible that I have near heard this music this way, with this much drive and emotion.  That musical effort is laid at your feet.  You cannot deny thier charms, you must get aboard and go.  Go along the journey and be one with the musicians.
> 
> ...



Hello JV.... Yggdrasil is no slouch either but In my unbiased opinion, Rega RP8 with Apetha cartridge is much better. Coupled with GOTL and your choice of headphone and it's high fidelity.

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one to go nuts when I received the GOTL. The tone is special irrespective of tubes used. It's vivid, vibrant and alive. It's flowing with details and layers upon layers of musical notes. Add a good source and you're in for a magic carpet ride.

Yup I have that Who album and several new copies of Led Zeppelin, Metallica, War On Drugs and a lot of unplayed classical LPs .......


----------



## Hansotek

Unofficial poll for the thread: what are your favorite power tubes for vocals and why?


----------



## leftside

Don't put the GOTL in the same pic as something else you are trying to sell. You'll never sell the Rag! Seriously, the Rag will sell. Keep lowering the price a little each week. My view is it's always better to sell a little under market price than have it sitting there doing nothing. 

Been listening to a Lampizator Euforia DSD DAC that I picked up last week for $1k. Rolled in a Mullard 6X5 rectifier and Telefunken 12AU7's. I'm really impressed! Much better than other DACs I've heard up to $2k. Even gives my Golden Atlantic a run for its money. I use Roon to output a DSD 128 signal.


----------



## gibosi

I realized today that I have never rolled the FDD20 with 6BX7. Intend to spend some quiet time with this configuration tonight before I sleep....


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> Unofficial poll for the thread: what are your favorite power tubes for vocals and why?



I don't have single favourite power tube. It's always in combination with a certain driver. There are just too many favourite power tubes for me to pick just one.

Listening with Tung Sol 6F8G and Cetron 6336b now. Not on vocals but ambience music. Tangerine Dream - Edgar Allan Poe's The Island of the Fay. Superb new vinyl. No pops and crackles at all.


----------



## UntilThen

Pink Floyd in the house.  I never get tired of listening to this album and the Atticus is the right headphone for classic rock. This package just delivers. I can't say which component contributes more. I think they all do. And those Tung Sol 6F8G and Cetron 6336b will be staying in there for a while. Gorgeous tone. See the Atticus wood colour is the same as the 6F8G adapter colour.


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 25, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Pink Floyd in the house.  I never get tired of listening to this album and the Atticus is the right headphone for classic rock. This package just delivers. I can't say which component contributes more. I think they all do. And those Tung Sol 6F8G and Cetron 6336b will be staying in there for a while. Gorgeous tone. See the Atticus wood colour is the same as the 6F8G adapter colour.




No such thing as a bad Pink Floyd album
I remember seeing the Animals tour live in Cleveland, Ohio many years ago. It is still fresh in my mind.

The sound will be as good as your weakest link, and you don't have a weakest link  

Better get your OTL amp out of that picture in the four sale thread...ha.
I have only ever seen about 3 of Glenns amps posted in the for sale thread since I have been on head-fi....none of them were there for long.
Hansotek, got the last one.

This in itself, speaks volumes for how good Glenn's gear is.


----------



## UntilThen

Joe I have that Pink Floyd Animals album but for now I'm really enjoying Tangerine Dream. Kind of similar to Pink Floyd style. I have 2 of their LPs and this album 'Out of this World' is really good. 

Rega RP8 with Apheta via GOTL and Atticus is a treat for the ears.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> I realized today that I have never rolled the FDD20 with 6BX7. Intend to spend some quiet time with this configuration tonight before I sleep....



Nice, Ken....

Will be interested in your impressions...


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Joe I have that Pink Floyd Animals album but for now I'm really enjoying Tangerine Dream. Kind of similar to Pink Floyd style. I have 2 of their LPs and this album 'Out of this World' is really good.
> 
> Rega RP8 with Apheta via GOTL and Atticus is a treat for the ears.



Thanks for the reminder on Pink Floyd! Have all thier LP's save for one or two.  Yes "The Wall" is perfect for an audiophile listening session.  Many wonderful tiny details. Can always hear something not noticed previously...

Love that T Dream tangerine colored vinyl 

I love albums that sound way better than the digital copies did.  One such is by the group Weather Report, album was Domino Theory....the LP has crazy good SQ, the CD never sounded as good.  Anyone can tell the difference, I have a lot of LP's that exceeded the sound quality of the CD release.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 25, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice, Ken....
> 
> Will be interested in your impressions...



Re: the FDD20. It sounded pretty good, but to my ears the Westinghouse 27s sound better, a bit more lively and 3-dimensional, even though they are noisier and with the external heater and adapter, a bit more of a hassle. Which reminds me, I still have a bunch of pins to clean. lol 

And I should also add: It's all about synergy. Perhaps with a different rectifier and/or output tubes, I would have liked the FDD20 more....


----------



## Monsterzero

A couple years ago I stumbled across a fan-made bootleg of The Wall,called "The Final Cut in the Wall".
Im not suggesting its better than the original like some folks claim,but its a refreshing way to hear an album that weve all heard a billion times. 
It is however worth seeking out IMHO.


----------



## 2359glenn

New larger chassis for the EL3N amp
Laid out with Yamamoto side pin sockets.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> New larger chassis for the EL3N amp
> Laid out with Yamamoto side pin sockets.




Very nice, Glenn.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> A couple years ago I stumbled across a fan-made bootleg of The Wall,called "The Final Cut in the Wall".
> Im not suggesting its better than the original like some folks claim,but its a refreshing way to hear an album that weve all heard a billion times.
> It is however worth seeking out IMHO.



I pick up this SACD version of Dark Side Of The Moon in a music shop for $10. This sounds as good as the vinyl copy that I have. It's a refreshing change to have the turntable and CD player sitting next to GOTL.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 26, 2018)

I have five drivers that I really like (so far):

1> FDD20 overall winner for me
2> 1940's Kentucky Radio VT-231 (pretty darn similar to FDD20)
3> Baldwin 12AU7 - green Baldwin lettering is just barely there, all other markings have rubbed off. 
I have owned this one for years, unknown orig manufacturer or date, but it's a great sounding tube, right behind the other two.
4> Sylvania 6SN7 mid to late 50's bottom getter version. Have a bunch of these, in Elise, these did not seem very special but in the GOTL, these sounds really nice! Way more bass than in Elise and way more controlled top end, not the typical "Sylvania bright house sound" as gibosi would say.
5> Raytheon 1960's 6SN7 - surprising sounding tube. More laid back than other drivers, but does so in an even handed way.  Mellow but does everything right. Very enjoyable tube for long listening sessions.  Liked it in Elise, too.

Biggest surprise:
Early 40's Visseaux 6N7 - great tube in Elise but a touch lacking in deep base in that amp.  Sounds very different in GOTL, way bassier and top end not so sharp and forward. Good sounding but so different from what I thought I knew...will take time to re-evaluate.

Lots more drivers to try. Hard not to get lost in the sound and spends hours enjoying what Sophie does with whatever driver is in.

All above enjoyed with 4x 6BL7 plus 2x 6BX7's.   Completely sold on 6BL/BX7's as powers.  6BL/BX7 is like having a giant pipe organ to play your compositions on, when all your friends only have a toy piano....it's so not fair!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Happy Happy Happy!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I have five drivers that I really like (so far):
> 
> 1> FDD20 overall winner for me
> 2> 1940's Kentucky Radio VT-231 (pretty darn similar to FDD20)
> ...


Hi JV,
Wishing you good luck on the discovery channel lol...
Do you have a picture of the Baldwin tube?
Is the Raytheon made in Japan?


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> I have five drivers that I really like (so far):
> 
> 3> Baldwin 12AU7 - green Baldwin lettering is just barely there, all other markings have rubbed off.


What other 12AU7's have you tried? My favorite's are the Telefunkens, though also quite like the new production Gold Lion's (with gold pins).


----------



## Xcalibur255

This thread is always so great when a new owner discovers bliss.

Kind of makes me want to get back into the spirit of things a little.

Congrats JV.  Welcome to the best club in audio.


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> This thread is always so great when a new owner discovers bliss.
> 
> Kind of makes me want to get back into the spirit of things a little.
> 
> Congrats JV.  Welcome to the best club in audio.



I know, right.
Great to see new owners enjoying Glenn's gear.


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> This thread is always so great when a new owner discovers bliss.
> 
> Kind of makes me want to get back into the spirit of things a little.
> 
> Congrats JV.  Welcome to the best club in audio.




Tyrell, are you still listening to your 45 amp ?

I am listening to four  6BL7 and 1633 Ken Rad this morning with Atticus headphones....synergy is off the hook.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> What other 12AU7's have you tried? My favorite's are the Telefunkens, though also quite like the new production Gold Lion's (with gold pins).



No other 12AU7's owned.  Classic ones seem pretty expensive these days.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Xcalibur255 said:


> This thread is always so great when a new owner discovers bliss.
> 
> Kind of makes me want to get back into the spirit of things a little.
> 
> Congrats JV.  Welcome to the best club in audio.



Thank you, Xcal....


----------



## gibosi

Well, after feeling a bit disappointed with the FDD20 (I was never as enamored with this tube as many in the Elise forums were, so I guess I shouldn't have been surprised...), last night I decided to spend some time with one of Mordy's recent discoveries.

This is a Foton 6H8C with ribbed plates, manufactured in 1952. It is my understanding that ribbed plates are seen only on Fotons manufactured in the early to mid 1950s, and that the earlier and later versions, with smooth plates, do not sound nearly as good.

Well, IMHO, Mordy may have found the best of the Russian 6H8C. I thoroughly enjoyed the hour I spent chilling out with this tube.


----------



## attmci (Mar 26, 2018)

gibosi said:


> Well, after feeling a bit disappointed with the FDD20 (I was never as enamored with this tube as many in the Elise forums were, so I guess I shouldn't have been surprised...), last night I decided to spend some time with one of Mordy's recent discoveries.
> 
> This is a Foton 6H8C with ribbed plates, manufactured in 1952. It is my understanding that ribbed plates are seen only on Fotons manufactured in the early to mid 1950s, and that the earlier and later versions, with smooth plates, do not sound nearly as good.
> 
> Well, IMHO, Mordy may have found the best of the Russian 6H8C. I thoroughly enjoyed the hour I spent chilling out with this tube.


Mordy highly recommended these.  How do these comparing to the other popular tubes?

I mean all those 6sn7gt, 6f8g, 6c8g, 6sl7gt, 6sc7gt, 6su7gt, 5691, 5692, 6188,7N7,...................too many tubes. Lol.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 26, 2018)

It depends on the maker... and a number of these are 6SL7GT-types, which have a bit too much gain, IMO. But, yes, too many tubes! lol

I spent only an hour with this tube... And as it was late, I was tired... So all I wanted to do was chill out.... And I wasn't making any comparisons, but I couldn't help but notice that it sounded very good. I think I will keep it in the amp and live with it for awhile.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> No other 12AU7's owned.  Classic ones seem pretty expensive these days.


Yes indeed. Which is why I went searching for new production tubes. The Gold Lions get good feedback from a lot of users on the McIntosh forums. I have the Gold Lions in the MC stage of my preamp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Yes indeed. Which is why I went searching for new production tubes. The Gold Lions get good feedback from a lot of users on the McIntosh forums. I have the Gold Lions in the MC stage of my preamp.



Interesting...mine uses 12AX7 there...(higher gain).


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Well, after feeling a bit disappointed with the FDD20 (I was never as enamored with this tube as many in the Elise forums were, so I guess I shouldn't have been surprised...), last night I decided to spend some time with one of Mordy's recent discoveries.



Not enamored with FDD20!!  

Got to be one of those "synergy" things.   I do think the ones labeled Philips Miniwatt are a bit more refined than the RVC ones.


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> Tyrell, are you still listening to your 45 amp ?
> 
> I am listening to four  6BL7 and 1633 Ken Rad this morning with Atticus headphones....synergy is off the hook.



Definitely still listening.  It's been my primary amp for music ever since I figured out the issues that were holding it back a couple of years ago, and it still is today.  I just don't 'tinker' anymore or tube roll.  

Then I saw UntilThen's enthusiastic posts after getting his amp and it kind of made me look at myself and go "what the hell happened to me, I used to enjoy this stuff.......?"

So on a whim last week I decided to drop some 46's into the amp.  The results were quite fascinating too.  I was thinking about writing about it here but I wasn't sure if there was any interest, particularly since I'm the only 45 amp owner.  That and it's a little weird for me to not say anything for the better part of a year and then suddenly dump a long-winded impression post out of the blue you know?  

I'm glad you are enjoying your setup still Whirlwind.  I found the 1633 really great when paired with the right outputs and headphones.  I used to roll mine in when I wanted to listen to my Beyer DT880-600's on the OTL, but the last time I tried the tube had become noisy somehow.


----------



## 2359glenn (Mar 26, 2018)

Write about it there may be some future #45 amp owners on at the time.
Your write ups are always interesting.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Interesting...mine uses 12AX7 there...(higher gain).


Sorry, 12AX7/ECC83 (Gold Lions) in the MC stage and 12AX7/ECC83 (Telefunkens) in the line stage of my preamp. 12AU7/ECC82 in the Lampizator Euforia.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Mordy highly recommended these.  How these comparing to the other popular tubes?
> 
> I mean all those 6sn7gt, 6f8g, 6c8g, 6sl7gt, 6sc7gt, 6su7gt, 5691, 5692, 6188,7N7,...................too many tubes. Lol.


Hi attmci,

I haven't listened to all of the tubes you enumerate, but from the little I know the Foton 6N8S 1952-55 ribbed anode sound very good, and they can compete with many of the top tubes. From a price/performance point they are hard to beat.
Listening to them now with the GEC6080 and the sound is perfectly satisfying with nothing missing.
I have no doubt that the price is going to go up once people discover them.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Then I saw UntilThen's enthusiastic posts after getting his amp and it kind of made me look at myself and go "what the hell happened to me, I used to enjoy this stuff.......?"



We do go through this phase sometimes. Take a back seat and listen to music quietly. However do come back and post because it was one of your posts that convince me to go with HEXFRED on my OTL.  It turn out to be a right decision for me.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Sorry, 12AX7/ECC83 (Gold Lions) in the MC stage and 12AX7/ECC83 (Telefunkens) in the line stage of my preamp. 12AU7/ECC82 in the Lampizator Euforia.



I was using six 12AU7 on the Primaluna when I had it. Was on the verge of getting Mullard 12AU7s then I sold off the amp.

JV, do you use the 12AU7 with a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter on the OTL? I doubt I'll buy more tubes though.

Just slip in a pair of Svetlana 6h13c on the OTL and it's super quiet and good sounding too. A bonus for such a cheap power tube. I'm running it with one of my fav driver - Tung Sol 6F8G.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think I'm going to try and get another pair of 46's before finalizing my thoughts.  The pair I have sound good musically but they have fairly serious noise/microphonic issues.  You can hear the plate structure rattle inside one of them.  I knew as soon as I handled it that it would hum, and I wasn't disappointed.

I know exactly what I'm looking for and so far I haven't come across it in my eBay adventures.

I'll say this though:  what I heard when trying out this tube was enough to make me seriously want to build an amp around it.  The primary issue with using them in the current amp is gain.  My 45 already has more gain that it really needs because of the C3g.  Even in triode mode C3gs are pretty high gain tubes.  I went from listening at 10 o'clock with the LCD-2s, to listening at 9 o'clock after moving to the more sensitive Ethers, to listening at 8 o'clock when the 46's were in the amp.  It's just too much gain at that point.

I got to thinking and had the thought that a 10Y driving the 46 might make an amazing all-DHT amp with just the right amount of gain.  I'm sure it's probably been done before somewhere...... I should do some googling........


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> 
> I haven't listened to all of the tubes you enumerate, but from the little I know the Foton 6N8S 1952-55 ribbed anode sound very good, and they can compete with many of the top tubes. From a price/performance point they are hard to beat.
> Listening to them now with the GEC6080 and the sound is perfectly satisfying with nothing missing.
> I have no doubt that the price is going to go up once people discover them.


Does 1956 count i see a pair for 60 bucks with a 1952 and 1956 matched nos


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I was using six 12AU7 on the Primaluna when I had it. Was on the verge of getting Mullard 12AU7s then I sold off the amp.
> 
> JV, do you use the 12AU7 with a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter on the OTL? I doubt I'll buy more tubes though.
> 
> Just slip in a pair of Svetlana 6h13c on the OTL and it's super quiet and good sounding too. A bonus for such a cheap power tube. I'm running it with one of my fav driver - Tung Sol 6F8G.



Yes, using the 12au7 via a 12au7->12SN7 adapter.  Hear ya on the 6h13c's...
Running this 12au7 in the GOTL was the first time I had ever heard it running at proper voltages.  I had always used it previously in a "starving student" type amp...meaning the plates were only getting 30 volts or so, instead of 240 volts.

It does sound...really good!


----------



## wazzupi

gibosi said:


> Well, after feeling a bit disappointed with the FDD20 (I was never as enamored with this tube as many in the Elise forums were, so I guess I shouldn't have been surprised...), last night I decided to spend some time with one of Mordy's recent discoveries.
> 
> This is a Foton 6H8C with ribbed plates, manufactured in 1952. It is my understanding that ribbed plates are seen only on Fotons manufactured in the early to mid 1950s, and that the earlier and later versions, with smooth plates, do not sound nearly as good.
> 
> Well, IMHO, Mordy may have found the best of the Russian 6H8C. I thoroughly enjoyed the hour I spent chilling out with this tube.


What power tubes ?


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> I think I'm going to try and get another pair of 46's before finalizing my thoughts.  The pair I have sound good musically but they have fairly serious noise/microphonic issues.  You can hear the plate structure rattle inside one of them.  I knew as soon as I handled it that it would hum, and I wasn't disappointed.
> 
> I know exactly what I'm looking for and so far I haven't come across it in my eBay adventures.
> 
> ...




I am always interested in reading peoples impressions of their amps and tubes, so I do hope you post your impressions.
The 45 tubes have always kind of interested me.

Who knows , maybe someone else will want Glenn to build them an amp around these tubes.


----------



## gibosi

wazzupi said:


> Does 1956 count i see a pair for 60 bucks with a 1952 and 1956 matched nos



What you are looking for are the ribbed plates. So if the 1956 tube has ribbed plates, it is good.



wazzupi said:


> What power tubes ?



In a Glenn, I am using Tung-Sol 6BX7 with a GEC U18/20. And above, Mordy has them installed in a different amp, a Feliks I believe, with GEC 6080 and solid-state rectification.


----------



## wazzupi

gibosi said:


> What you are looking for are the ribbed plates. So if the 1956 tube has ribbed plates, it is good.
> 
> 
> 
> In a Glenn, I am using Tung-Sol 6BX7 with a GEC U18/20. And above, Mordy has them installed in a different amp, a Feliks I believe, with GEC 6080 and solid-state rectification.


So 4 6bx7s 1 GEC U18/20 and 2 foton 6n8s ?
The u18/20 is a rectifier ?


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> I think I'm going to try and get another pair of 46's before finalizing my thoughts.  The pair I have sound good musically but they have fairly serious noise/microphonic issues.  You can hear the plate structure rattle inside one of them.  I knew as soon as I handled it that it would hum, and I wasn't disappointed.
> 
> I know exactly what I'm looking for and so far I haven't come across it in my eBay adventures.
> 
> ...



I use #10 globe tubes to drive my 300Bs really need a interstage transformer to do it right.
Or a EML20B with a input transformer to give 4X voltage boost with no driver at all.
Also I would consider a EML45 for your amp instead of noisy NOS45s.


----------



## gibosi

wazzupi said:


> So 4 6bx7s 1 GEC U18/20 and 2 foton 6n8s ?
> The u18/20 is a rectifier ?



The Glenn requires only one driver. So you need only one 6N8S. And yes, the U18/20 is a tube rectifier.


----------



## 2359glenn (Mar 26, 2018)

Xcalibur255 said:


> I think I'm going to try and get another pair of 46's before finalizing my thoughts.  The pair I have sound good musically but they have fairly serious noise/microphonic issues.  You can hear the plate structure rattle inside one of them.  I knew as soon as I handled it that it would hum, and I wasn't disappointed.
> 
> I know exactly what I'm looking for and so far I haven't come across it in my eBay adventures.
> 
> ...



Do you know the 26 was made to drive a 26 actually a pair of 26s in push pull.
The 26 is a odd tube not a triode and not a pentode it is a dual grid tube.
I have your adapter wired as a driver makes it closest to a 45.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Mar 26, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> I use #10 globe tubes to drive my 300Bs really need a interstage transformer to do it right.
> Or a EML20B with a input transformer to give 4X voltage boost with no driver at all.
> Also I would consider a EML45 for your amp instead of noisy NOS45s.



I've been thinking of doing EML off and on for a while, but there is a problem on that front.  After the switch to HEXFRED I found I had almost no room for adjusting plate current on the tubes.  I have a couple of pairs that bias to 34-36mA with the bias pot screwed turned completely down until they are bottomed out.  This isn't a problem right now with the tubes I have.  But, my fear is that the EML tubes might be a little stronger than a typical old stock tube.  I'm scared of plopping them in and seeing them bias to 40mA or more and having no way of turning it down.

If this should happen is there an easy way to fix this Glenn?


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> Does 1956 count i see a pair for 60 bucks with a 1952 and 1956 matched nos


Hi wazzupi,
To the best of my knowledge the Foton tubes with the ribbed anodes were only made between 1952 and 1955.
I bought my tubes for $34 including shipping for four tubes. The reason the seller ships four is that the postage structure changed in Ukraine, and he can only offer free shipping on a minimum of four tubes.
You can email the seller (Oleh Sydorow) at info@annaborn.com for availability and prices.
Supposedly there is a specific Russian made Melz tube in the 6SN7 family that is better, but they cost $25 a piece and from my reading I found out that the Melz tubes have quality problems.
Here is the eBay link to this seller:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-4-p...hash=item1edb1b2cdd:m:mpgAbFtOIoPkWboWGSID9sw


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> Hi wazzupi,
> To the best of my knowledge the Foton tubes with the ribbed anodes were only made between 1952 and 1955.
> I bought my tubes for $34 including shipping for four tubes. The reason the seller ships four is that the postage structure changed in Ukraine, and he can only offer free shipping on a minimum of four tubes.
> You can email the seller (Oleh Sydorow) at info@annaborn.com for availability and prices.
> ...



https://m.ebay.com/itm/RARE-VTG-FOT...-PAIR-1952y-/253480611755?txnId=2234770280015
Maybe you could tell me if this is legit ?


----------



## gibosi

wazzupi said:


> https://m.ebay.com/itm/RARE-VTG-FOT...-PAIR-1952y-/253480611755?txnId=2234770280015
> Maybe you could tell me if this is legit ?



Both tubes pictured have the same construction, including those distinctive ribbed plates. So yes, they are legit.


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> https://m.ebay.com/itm/RARE-VTG-FOT...-PAIR-1952y-/253480611755?txnId=2234770280015
> Maybe you could tell me if this is legit ?


Hi W,
Although the tubes look to have the same construction, I do not understand why you want to pay $61 for two tubes when you could pay $34 for four tubes, and these four would be from matching years.


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> Hi W,
> Although the tubes look to have the same construction, I do not understand why you want to pay $61 for two tubes when you could pay $34 for four tubes, and these four would be from matching years.


Lol i bought these before you posted


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> Lol i bought these before you posted


Look, it could be worse - I have one pair that were lost in the US Customs in August last year, and I never received them.


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> Look, it could be worse - I have one pair that were lost in the US Customs in August last year, and I never received them.


Damn


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> I've been thinking of doing EML off and on for a while, but there is a problem on that front.  After the switch to HEXFRED I found I had almost no room for adjusting plate current on the tubes.  I have a couple of pairs that bias to 34-36mA with the bias pot screwed turned completely down until they are bottomed out.  This isn't a problem right now with the tubes I have.  But, my fear is that the EML tubes might be a little stronger than a typical old stock tube.  I'm scared of plopping them in and seeing them bias to 40mA or more and having no way of turning it down.
> 
> If this should happen is there an easy way to fix this Glenn?



Hi Tyrell
I could do something maybe make you new HEXFRED rectifier adapters with a resistor to drop the B+
but this can affect the sound the amp will have the sag that the tube rectifiers had.
If you get them and the current is to high I will have to think about a cure.
They should be less microphonic but not sure if they will sound better?


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Hi Tyrell
> I could do something maybe make you new HEXFRED rectifier adapters with a resistor to drop the B+
> but this can affect the sound the amp will have the sag that the tube rectifiers had.
> If you get them and the current is to high I will have to think about a cure.
> They should be less microphonic but not sure if they will sound better?


Everybody says they sound better than any NOS, but the proof is in hearing it for ourselves I suppose.  The bias issue worries me though.  EML are 700 dollars if you get mesh plates.  Lots of money to take a gamble on.

I wish I could know ahead of time.  Why is it that a brand new tube needs less bias than an older one?  If it comes down to a specific value like maybe transconductance then maybe I can predict whether it will be a problem by comparing the data sheets.  I know the EML are not identical to NOS 45 tubes, there are electrical differences.


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Mar 27, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I was using six 12AU7 on the Primaluna when I had it. Was on the verge of getting Mullard 12AU7s then I sold off the amp.
> 
> JV, do you use the 12AU7 with a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter on the OTL? I doubt I'll buy more tubes though.
> 
> Just slip in a pair of Svetlana 6h13c on the OTL and it's super quiet and good sounding too. A bonus for such a cheap power tube. I'm running it with one of my fav driver - Tung Sol 6F8G.



So how is the Glen vs the Primaluna?


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Everybody says they sound better than any NOS, but the proof is in hearing it for ourselves I suppose.  The bias issue worries me though.  EML are 700 dollars if you get mesh plates.  Lots of money to take a gamble on.
> 
> I wish I could know ahead of time.  Why is it that a brand new tube needs less bias than an older one?  If it comes down to a specific value like maybe transconductance then maybe I can predict whether it will be a problem by comparing the data sheets.  I know the EML are not identical to NOS 45 tubes, there are electrical differences.



I wouldn't get mesh plate no benefit solid plate can handle more current don't know the difference in SQ.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> 
> I haven't listened to all of the tubes you enumerate, but from the little I know the Foton 6N8S 1952-55 ribbed anode sound very good, and they can compete with many of the top tubes. From a price/performance point they are hard to beat.
> Listening to them now with the GEC6080 and the sound is perfectly satisfying with nothing missing.
> I have no doubt that the price is going to go up once people discover them.



OK. I purchased these based on your recommendation. You may like some 5692 tubes. The price is reasonable now.


----------



## Hansotek

Hey, can you run a single 6BX7 per side in the power tube slot of the GOTL, or is that a bad idea?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hansotek said:


> Hey, can you run a single 6BX7 per side in the power tube slot of the GOTL, or is that a bad idea?



You can....but to power headphones...more per side is better.  If you want to use the Glenn as a tube buffer...one might be sufficient.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Enjoying 6x 6BL7 and the 1633 that Glenn sent with the amp as driver...

Listening to Jean Michael Jarre.


----------



## Hansotek

JazzVinyl said:


> You can....but to power headphones...more per side is better.  If you want to use the Glenn as a tube buffer...one might be sufficient.



Well, I have two that have shorter bottles and won’t play well with others, trying to determine if they are any good. Also just generally curious what only two sounds like.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hansotek said:


> Well, I have two that have shorter bottles and won’t play well with others, trying to determine if they are any good. Also just generally curious what only two sounds like.



Sure, give them a whirl.

I think the BL's sound better than BX's....


----------



## UntilThen

FunctionalDoc said:


> So how is the Glen vs the Primaluna?



At work now so I will be brief in my reply.

I have never had the Primaluna and GOTL side by side. I sold off the PL before the OTL arrived.

I have primarily audition the PL against the Redgum and Ragnarok as a stereo amp driving speakers but I remember I was very pleased with the PL on the occasions I tried it with HD800. It sounded spacious.

GOTL is addictive in being vivid and vibrant sounding with no trace of harshness. It has the uncanny ability to sound clear, precise in instruments separation with the right touch of tube euphony. It has my top recommendation as a headphone tube amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> GOTL is addictive in being vivid and vibrant sounding with no trace of harshness. It has the uncanny ability to sound clear, precise in instruments separation with the right touch of tube euphony. It has my top recommendation as a headphone tube amp.



I second that.  Extremely tight,  precision sound stage, instruments sound real, like they are in the room.  A delicate high end with superman powers in the bass dept (which I love).  

Made my headphones sound much much more expensive.  

Listening to a Jazz Trio working out on "My Favorite Things".....the Glenn is my favorite thing...


----------



## Hansotek

Not bad at all. These 6BX7s wouldn't work with any others, but it turns out they still sound great on their own, so here's a low-power, low-clearance roll for fun with my Grados. Sylvania 5U4G, GE smoked glass ECC88 and a single RCA 6BL7 short bottle in each power tube slot.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hansotek said:


> Not bad at all. These 6BX7s wouldn't work with any others, but it turns out they still sound great on their own, so here's a low-power, low-clearance roll for fun with my Grados. Sylvania 5U4G, GE smoked glass ECC88 and a single RCA 6BL7 short bottle in each power tube slot.



Very nice!

The ever versatile Glenn!


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> OK. I purchased these based on your recommendation. You may like some 5692 tubes. The price is reasonable now.


Hi attmci,

Hoping I steered you in the right direction with the Fotons - you may have to be patient waiting for them - some of my orders took 4-5 weeks to arrive.
Re the 5692, which brand etc is supposed to be better? Are they just a long life 6SN7 tube?


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> 
> Hoping I steered you in the right direction with the Fotons - you may have to be patient waiting for them - some of my orders took 4-5 weeks to arrive.
> Re the 5692, which brand etc is supposed to be better? Are they just a long life 6SN7 tube?


RCA/GE made most of the 5692. Many people don't like the 5692 due to their high price in the past.

They sound similar to your description of the 54-55 Fotons. You should get a pair to compare.


----------



## yates7592

JazzVinyl said:


> Sure, give them a whirl.
> 
> I think the BL's sound better than BX's....



JV, what do you like about BL's over BX's? They have higher gain right?


----------



## 2359glenn

Hansotek said:


> Hey, can you run a single 6BX7 per side in the power tube slot of the GOTL, or is that a bad idea?



Not a good idea one 6BX7 will be over current.


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 28, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> Not bad at all. These 6BX7s wouldn't work with any others, but it turns out they still sound great on their own, so here's a low-power, low-clearance roll for fun with my Grados. Sylvania 5U4G, GE smoked glass ECC88 and a single RCA 6BL7 short bottle in each power tube slot.




I was just getting ready to chime in about you can  use one per side...have done it with my Grado RS1....it works...but I usually go for a pair of RCA 6AS7G with my Grado cans.

The RS1 on the EL3N amp in one tube mode is some of the best transparency that I have ever heard.


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> 
> Hoping I steered you in the right direction with the Fotons - you may have to be patient waiting for them - some of my orders took 4-5 weeks to arrive.
> Re the 5692, which brand etc is supposed to be better? Are they just a long life 6SN7 tube?


He said he only has 1956 ribbed anodes soo i now dont know what the difference is haha


----------



## jekjek (Mar 28, 2018)

wazzupi said:


> He said he only has 1956 ribbed anodes soo i now dont know what the difference is haha


I ordered 2 pairs 1956 one from him


----------



## Phantaminum

Collecting a few tubes here and there. Bought a few pairs of the c3gs and the Russian tubes recommended earlier. Any other recommended driver tubes for the GOTL?


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> Not a good idea one 6BX7 will be over current.



Thanks. I’ll probably sell this pair then.


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> He said he only has 1956 ribbed anodes soo i now dont know what the difference is haha


Ask the seller if they sound the same - the construction seems to be the same.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> Collecting a few tubes here and there. Bought a few pairs of the c3gs and the Russian tubes recommended earlier. Any other recommended driver tubes for the GOTL?



We all have different ears and gear. So almost any tube might be recommended by someone... lol  

Does your GOTL have the 6/12/25 volt switch? If so, I would recommend that you look for inexpensive 12SN7. This will allow you to try a bunch of tubes for not much money. And you are bound to find some that you like.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> We all have different ears and gear. So almost any tube might be recommended by someone... lol
> 
> Does your GOTL have the 6/12/25 volt switch? If so, I would recommend that you look for inexpensive 12SN7. This will allow you to try a bunch of tubes for not much money. And you are bound to find some that you like.



Very true and what I may like you may not enjoy. I I love the Amperex house sound. Dynamic, punchy, and forgiving but I’m coming from 6922 tubes and may change my mind with other tubes. 

I asked Glenn for the 6/12/25 volt switch for the versatility and thanks for the recommendation. I’ll look into them.


----------



## gibosi

yates7592 said:


> JV, what do you like about BL's over BX's? They have higher gain right?



In my opinion, speaking very generally, I think the BL are a bit warmer than the BX.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> Very true and what I may like you may not enjoy. I I love the Amperex house sound. Dynamic, punchy, and forgiving but I’m coming from 6922 tubes and may change my mind with other tubes.
> 
> I asked Glenn for the 6/12/25 volt switch for the versatility and thanks for the recommendation. I’ll look into them.



For the most part, "Amperex" was primarily a marketing brand used exclusively in the US. While it is true that some E88CC/6922 and E188CC/7308 were manufactured in the Amperex factory located in Long Island, many tubes carrying the Amperex brand were manufactured in Philips factories located in England, Holland and elsewhere for distribution and sale in the US.

So I am curious... Could one call the Amperex house sound you like the Long Island sound? Or given that tons of 6922 carrying the Amperex brand were actually manufactured in Heerlen, could it be the Heerlen sound?


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> For the most part, "Amperex" was primarily a marketing brand used exclusively in the US. While it is true that some E88CC/6922 and E188CC/7308 were manufactured in the Amperex factory located in Long Island, many tubes carrying the Amperex brand were manufactured in Philips factories located in England, Holland and elsewhere for distribution and sale in the US.
> 
> So I am curious... Could one call the Amperex house sound you like the Long Island sound? Or given that tons of 6922 carrying the Amperex brand were actually manufactured in Heerlen, could it be the Heerlen sound?



You’re right that’s the sound I’m looking for. The Heerlen sound is just amazing to my ears.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I wouldn't get mesh plate no benefit solid plate can handle more current don't know the difference in SQ.


If I'm going to do it, I'd like to try something different.  I suspect there's no "bad" choice in the matter.

Did you have any thoughts about my question on the matter?


----------



## gibosi (Mar 28, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> You’re right that’s the sound I’m looking for. The Heerlen sound is just amazing to my ears.



The three major Philips factories located in Holland -- Eindhoven, Heerlen and Sittard -- all have what I might call the Philips "Holland sound" with that slightly forward, lush midrange. So you might want to try some of the following:

Philips manufactured the 6SN7GT in their Endhoven factory. Since they also manufactured this tube in their Brussels factory, look for the "4" in the second line of the production code. "4" is the factory code for Eindhoven.


 

Philips at Eindhoven and Sittard also manufactured the ECC40, which was developed by Philips as a replacement for the 6SN7. Unfortunately, the strange Rimlock base prevented this tube from having much if any acceptance outside of Europe, but to my ears, these are nice tubes.

If you decide to explore these tubes, it will be necessary to become comfortable with Philips production codes, as this tube was also manufactured at Hamburg, Chartres and Suresnes. Further, Tungsram of Hungary manufactured this tube as well



Also, there are two tubes that might be called "Super 12AU7s", the E80CC / 6085 and the E182CC / 7119.

These pinched-waist E182CC were manufactured in Heerlen. Later tubes were manufactured at the Amperex factory in Long Island. Unfortunately, these are not pin-compatible with the 6922 or the 12AU7, so a separate adapter is required. 



The E80CC was manufactured first in Eindhoven and then Heerlen. A pinched-waist Eindhoven on the left and a later Heerlen on the right. These are pin-compatible with the 12AU7 (which means that you could use a 6922 adapter and set the amp for 12 volts ) Early on, the E80CC was also manufactured in Hamburg and then later at the Amperex factory in Long Island. Further, Tungsram of Hungary manufactured this tube as well.



Given that the ECC40 and the 12AU7 and its derivatives were developed to replace the 6SN7, these tubes are very comfortable in a circuit designed to run 6SN7.

And if your GOTL will have tube rectification, a number of 4-volt rectifiers manufactured in Eindhoven can be found.

Have fun!


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Collecting a few tubes here and there. Bought a few pairs of the c3gs and the Russian tubes recommended earlier. Any other recommended driver tubes for the GOTL?



Any of the super 7 that I posted a picture of previously.

1. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
2. Mullard ECC31
3. Tung Sol 6F8G
4. Mullard ECC33
5. C3g
6. Gec B36
7. FDD20


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Any of the super 7 that I posted a picture of previously.
> 
> 1. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
> 2. Mullard ECC31
> ...


Hi UT,

What we need now is a good $5-10 tube to complete the super 8......


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Any of the super 7 that I posted a picture of previously.
> 
> 1. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
> 2. Mullard ECC31
> ...


Could you kinda describe sound for tubes ? Lol if you want of course


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> What we need now is a good $5-10 tube to complete the super 8......



Not in the same category in my opinion but these will do.

Brimar 13D1 - I'm sure Langrex still have these. I got it for $10

RCA 1633


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Could you kinda describe sound for tubes ? Lol if you want of course



Describing tone is hard. I can only provide some descriptions. Nothing like listening to it yourself. 

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base - clear, revealing, very good bass and soundstage.

Mullard ECC31 - the other spectrum of Sylvania 6sn7w. Emphasis on midrange and bass. Lush and warmer. Definitely not as sparkling in the top end as the 6sn7w.

Tung Sol 6F8G - the closest you get to the fame Tung Sol 6sn7gt black glass round plate. If you find the 6sn7w too revealing in the top end, this will fit nicely. Good texture and tone.

Mullard ECC33 - clearer than ECC31. Bass is more refined than strong but a splendid tone.

c3g - a Sylvania 6sn7w metal base on steroids. 

FDD20 - A tone that straddles the middle ground between Mullard ECC31 and Mazda 6N7G. Mids is projected more forward but less so than 6N7G. Clear definitely but not super clear as in c3g.


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 28, 2018)

gibosi said:


> The three major Philips factories located in Holland -- Eindhoven, Heerlen and Sittard -- all have what I might call the Philips "Holland sound" with that slightly forward, lush midrange. So you might want to try some of the following:
> 
> Philips manufactured the 6SN7GT in their Endhoven factory. Since they also manufactured this tube in their Brussels factory, look for the "4" in the second line of the production code. "4" is the factory code for Eindhoven.
> 
> ...



If I could like your post twice I would! Thank you for the breadthe of information provided. Very informative and now I’m on the hunt.



UntilThen said:


> Any of the super 7 that I posted a picture of previously.
> 
> 1. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
> 2. Mullard ECC31
> ...



Great googly moogly on those prices!* *Goes back to buying 100 Russian tubes**


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> If I'm going to do it, I'd like to try something different.  I suspect there's no "bad" choice in the matter.
> 
> Did you have any thoughts about my question on the matter?



The regular EML45 is about $500 should sound good maybe better then NOS. I think they will work fine in your amp.
Nice looking tubes.
http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML45.htm


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Describing tone is hard. I can only provide some descriptions. Nothing like listening to it yourself.
> 
> Sylvania 6sn7w metal base - clear, revealing, very good bass and soundstage.
> 
> ...


That'll do lol awesome and thank you for the descriptions makes my life easier in the end i got some tubes to purchase.


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 28, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Collecting a few tubes here and there. Bought a few pairs of the c3gs and the Russian tubes recommended earlier. Any other recommended driver tubes for the GOTL?



Looks like you already have some great recommendations.

Kens advice of looking for 12SN7 is exactly what I did...I own more 12SN7 than any other tubes.

Once you learn the construction of the really good tubes, you can sometimes find great bargins on the 12SN7 tubes.  Must be patient

I found this lot  once...and got it for a steal of a price and all of the tubes were rock solid.

Tung Sol 12SN7 Black Glass Round Plate - Rebranded RCA  this more than paid for what I paid for all of them.
Ken Rad 12SN7 Black Glass
Tung Sol 12SN7 mouse ear

I have also found a few  1952 Sylvania 12SN7GT Bad Boys...great alternative if you dont want to spend lots of cash for the more expensive Sylvania driver tubes.




The driver stage in the OTL is fantastic...you only need one tube so much easier and cheaper to find great deals.


The pics that gibosi post of tubes are great pics to study...his pictures are wonderful!


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> In my opinion, speaking very generally, I think the BL are a bit warmer than the BX.



Agree with gibosi, I think so, too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

7N7 and friends....sounding great....


----------



## mordy

Is this tube a GE?


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I have also found a few  1952 Sylvania 12SN7GT Bad Boys...great alternative if you dont want to spend lots of cash for the more expensive Sylvania driver tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have the 6 volt version of this 1950's Sylvania....and it is a terrific sounding tube in Glenn's amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Early 1940's Visseaux 6N7G...

 


 

Sounding good on some New Age tunes...


----------



## attmci (Mar 29, 2018)

gibosi said:


> Well, after feeling a bit disappointed with the FDD20 (I was never as enamored with this tube as many in the Elise forums were, so I guess I shouldn't have been surprised...), last night I decided to spend some time with one of Mordy's recent discoveries.u
> 
> This is a Foton 6H8C with ribbed plates, manufactured in 1952. It is my understanding that ribbed plates are seen only on Fotons manufactured in the early to mid 1950s, and that the earlier and later versions, with smooth plates, do not sound nearly as good.
> 
> Well, IMHO, Mordy may have found the best of the Russian 6H8C. I thoroughly enjoyed the hour I spent chilling out with this tube.


I believe some early 1956 tubes shared the same structure as we had discussed before.



BTY, they cannot be the best Russian 6SN7, because there are those crazy 1578 specials.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> I believe some early 1956 tubes shared the same structure as we had discussed before.
> 
> BTY, they cannot be the best Russian 6SN7, because there are those crazy 1578 specials.



Yes, it appears that the construction of the Fotons changed sometime in 1956. So again, look for construction, not year.

I have a 1578, with perforated plates and metal spring spacers, and to my ears, the Foton with ribbed plates is better.


----------



## wazzupi

What does lc45 or lc41 indicate on tubes ?


----------



## gibosi

wazzupi said:


> What does lc45 or lc41 indicate on tubes ?



We need more information. Different companies employed different codes. How about a picture?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Is this tube a GE?



In my opinion, if it doesn't have the typical sandblasted dot date codes and block lettering it is not a GE.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Yes, it appears that the construction of the Fotons changed sometime in 1956. So again, look for construction, not year.
> 
> I have a 1578, with perforated plates and metal spring spacers, and to my ears, the Foton with ribbed plates is better.


You must get a fake. LOL. Tons of fake tubes on the market.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> You must get a fake. LOL. Tons of fake tubes on the market.


According to the seller of my Fotons, this Melz 6N8S is a tad better:





I have a source with a price of $100 shipped for 4, but I am not willing to take the gamble. Read somewhere that the Melz tubes have quality problems.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> In my opinion, if it doesn't have the typical sandblasted dot date codes and block lettering it is not a GE.


Hi G,
Does it look like a round plate? Which Canadian maker could it be? Or just a fake country designation?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> I have a source with a price of $100 shipped for 4, but I am not willing to take the gamble. Read somewhere that the Melz tubes have quality problems.



Give me the source. I'm a gambling man.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 30, 2018)

No, I do not have a fake. While it is possible to fake the text and graphics, it is impossible to fake the construction. There is only one tube with this construction -- metal base, perforated plates, metal spring spacers and the bottom and top micas identical, rectangular with a tab at both ends:

 

Again, we all have different ears and gear. While some may like this tube a lot, I was very disappointed and felt relieved that I didn't pay much for it. The guide pin was missing so I got it cheap.

So I have both. And to my ears, the Foton is better. But of course, YMMV. 

I might add, the 1500 series of Russian tubes were premium versions. However, their intended purposes and uses are not known. Some speculate that they were to be used in MiG fighters, space or nuclear reactors, but at least here in the West, no documentation is known to exist. In the end, they were designed and constructed to be long-life, high-reliability vacuum tubes. In the audio community, the 1578, a specialized version of the 6SN7GT and the 1579, a specialized version of the 6SL7GT are most commonly known.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Give me the source. I'm a gambling man.


Here u r, UT:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-4-p...hash=item1edb1b2cdd:m:mpgAbFtOIoPkWboWGSID9sw

The same seller sold me the fabled ribbed anodes.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi G,
> Does it look like a round plate? Which Canadian maker could it be? Or just a fake country designation?



The picture is too blurry for me to see the construction, so I do not know. That said, a number of American manufacturers had factories in Canada. Plus there were a number of Canadian vacuum tube manufacturers as well. so I doubt that it is a fake. But I have no idea what it is....


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Here u r, UT:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-4-p...hash=item1edb1b2cdd:m:mpgAbFtOIoPkWboWGSID9sw
> 
> The same seller sold me the fabled ribbed anodes.



The picture shows a tube without perforated plates and metal spring spacers. So while this does appear to be a Melz metal base 6N8S, it is not a 1578.

And very frankly, if it was, he certainly wouldn't be selling them for $25 each.....


----------



## mordy (Mar 29, 2018)

gibosi said:


> No, I do not have a fake. While it is possible to fake the text and graphics, it is impossible to fake the construction. There is only one tube with this construction -- metal base, perforated plates and metal spring spacers:
> 
> Hi Gibosi.
> I think the Fotons were made for tanks. I dropped one, and nothing happened; something which I cannot say about my 1954 NU 6BL7. When I dropped it, I could easily visualize the internal construction since the gray glass was gone.....


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> The picture is too blurry for me to see the construction, so I do not know. That said, a number of American manufacturers had factories in Canada. Plus there were a number of Canadian vacuum tube manufacturers as well. so I doubt that it is a fake. But I have no idea what it is....


The seller says it is a Marconi. Does this mean  that it was made in Canada? Was Marconi a re-brander?


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> The picture shows a tube without perforated plates and metal spring spacers. So while this does appear to be a Melz metal base 6N8S, it is not a 1578.
> 
> And very frankly, if it was, he certainly wouldn't be selling them for $25 each.....


Hi G,

Now I get it. In the past the picture showed the tube with the holes in the plates, but now it is a different one!
So UT - don't gamble on this one!


----------



## UntilThen

Yes Mordy as Gibosi says the seller's photo is not a 1578. I want one that looks like this photo you posted.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1274#post-14136718

As a gambling man, I'd say that's not a Royal Flush.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> The seller says it is a Marconi. Does this mean  that it was made in Canada? Was Marconi a re-brander?



Marconi founded the Marconi Wireless Telegraph Company of Canada in 1903. It was renamed as the Canadian Marconi Company in 1925. And I often see Canadian Marconi tubes on eBay. So this real.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Marconi founded the Marconi Wireless Telegraph Company of Canada in 1903. It was renamed as the Canadian Marconi Company in 1925. And I often see Canadian Marconi tubes on eBay. So this real.


I was hoping it was a GEC....


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I was hoping it was a GEC....



A bit more info:

*The Radio Valve Company of Canada (RVC) was incorporated in November 1922 and it manufactured vacuum tubes under the trade name "Radiotron".  These tubes were distributed to the radio trade exclusively by the Canadian Marconi Company and Canadian General Electric.
*
http://www.jproc.ca/marconi/tubes.html


----------



## wazzupi

gibosi said:


> We need more information. Different companies employed different codes. How about a picture?


https://www.langrex.co.uk/?s=Ecc31&post_type=product


----------



## gibosi

wazzupi said:


> What does lc45 or lc41 indicate on tubes ?





wazzupi said:


> https://www.langrex.co.uk/?s=Ecc31&post_type=product



"LC45" and "LC41" appear to be internal inventory numbers used by Langrex....

Prior to WWII, the Army, Navy and Air Force each had different numbers for the same tube. So NR73 is Naval Receiving tube #73 which is the number the Royal Navy used for the ECC31. And APW1280 appears to be an old government store number for the ECC31. The D tells us it was manufactured by Mullard at the Blackburn factory and the arrow is another government mark.

I don't see a production code on that tube. But even if I did, I have yet to find a key to decipher Mullard production codes used prior to 1955.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Give me the source. I'm a gambling man.


Fack or real, should at least have 1578 printed on the tube like the ones in the pic I uploaded earlier. BTW, I don't have these tubes.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 29, 2018)

attmci said:


> Fack or real, should at least have 1578 printed on the tube like the ones in the pic I uploaded earlier. BTW, I don't have these tubes.



The silver ink "1578" stamped on the side of the glass in the older tubes is fairly soft and tends to scratch off easily. In the later mid-1980s production a purple "1578" stamp, placed on the the base, seems to be a bit more durable.

But again, even if all the markings on the outside of the tube have been rubbed off, the internal construction tells the truth.


----------



## attmci (Mar 29, 2018)

gibosi said:


> The silver ink "1578" stamped on the side of the glass in the older tubes is fairly soft and tends to scratch off easily. In the later mid-1980s production a purple "1578" stamp, placed on the the base, seems to be a bit more durable.
> 
> But again, even if all the markings on the outside of the tube have been rubbed off, the internal construction tells the truth.


I think those are the ones Matt wants to gamble.  Not the later purple-inked ones.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> I was hoping it was a GEC....


If it's _Canada_, it's not _GEC_.


----------



## UntilThen

These are the ones I want but they are $240 a pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PA...rentrq:738dea211620a993a7a11230fffb2cf0|iid:1

So when Mordy says he has a source that sells quad for $100, I'm willing to try it but it turn out they are not.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> These are the ones I want but they are $240 a pair.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-6N8S-6SN7-1578-MELZ-HOLE-PLATES-TUBES-METAL-BASE-DATE-1954-YEAR/182535378235?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=eb0495f0fb274070969b430148e542ad&pid=100675&rk=3&rkt=15&sd=311945352347&itm=182535378235&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:eb11795a-3393-11e8-bcf5-74dbd180496e|parentrq:738dea211620a993a7a11230fffb2cf0|iid:1
> 
> So when Mordy says he has a source that sells quad for $100, I'm willing to try it but it turn out they are not.



I would be all in if it was for those tubes also!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I would be all in if it was for those tubes also!



There would be more than just 2 of us wanting to buy it if it were those tubes. 

However this is the tube I would urge you to try. Paired with 5998, it's a killer tone.

Also Eikon has overtaken HD800 as my preferred headphone on the GOTL. Atticus is sounding real good too. So is Audeze LCD-2f. Choices, choices...


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> These are the ones I want but they are $240 a pair.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-6N8S-6SN7-1578-MELZ-HOLE-PLATES-TUBES-METAL-BASE-DATE-1954-YEAR/182535378235?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=eb0495f0fb274070969b430148e542ad&pid=100675&rk=3&rkt=15&sd=311945352347&itm=182535378235&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:eb11795a-3393-11e8-bcf5-74dbd180496e|parentrq:738dea211620a993a7a11230fffb2cf0|iid:1
> 
> So when Mordy says he has a source that sells quad for $100, I'm willing to try it but it turn out they are not.


Matt, I save you over 100 bucks.

At that price, they have to be very good.

Do you have the $8 tubes Mordy recommended? If so, how do you like it?


----------



## Autostart

Hello tube family. I'm in the market for an " endgame " tube amp. I really don't like using the who endgame thing because there really is no end in sight, but I've recently sold my WA22 tube amp and looking for something next level. I've heard so much about the 300B tube and would really like to give it a shot. Are there any members that have one of Glenn's 300B amps that could answers a few questions along with maybe posting some pictures?

Thank you


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> There would be more than just 2 of us wanting to buy it if it were those tubes.
> 
> However this is the tube I would urge you to try. Paired with 5998, it's a killer tone.
> 
> Also Eikon has overtaken HD800 as my preferred headphone on the GOTL. Atticus is sounding real good too. So is Audeze LCD-2f. Choices, choices...




I have never heard one and I was on the look out for one good while back, but i never pursued it.
I would not pay the going prices for one though to be honest...I would need to keep looking for a really good deal....at a certain price point, I would rather save my money and roll headphones 

Since I listen to mostly blues and rock and classic rock....90% blues these days...the two ZMF headphones occupy about 80% of my headtime...the HD800 & RS1 get the rest.

After I have not heard the HD800 for a long tme, I put it on and man, it sounds wonderful...so I will never get rid of it, it is just a great can.

That being said...the Atticus & Ori are loads more fun and they are wonderful with Glenns gear.

If I ever get any cash flow...I may look for an ECC33 again.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Do you have the $8 tubes Mordy recommended? If so, how do you like it?



No I don't have the ribbed version. Only the flat $4 version. 

So if you send me a ribbed version I'll tell you how it compares with my other drivers.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> These are the ones I want but they are $240 a pair.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-6N8S-6SN7-1578-MELZ-HOLE-PLATES-TUBES-METAL-BASE-DATE-1954-YEAR/182535378235?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=eb0495f0fb274070969b430148e542ad&pid=100675&rk=3&rkt=15&sd=311945352347&itm=182535378235&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:eb11795a-3393-11e8-bcf5-74dbd180496e|parentrq:738dea211620a993a7a11230fffb2cf0|iid:1
> 
> So when Mordy says he has a source that sells quad for $100, I'm willing to try it but it turn out they are not.



As these do not have steel leaf springs supporting the upper mica, these are not "real" 1578. Metal spring spacers are one of the essential features of the 1578. The 1578 was designed to be a low noise and low microphonic version of the 6N8S, and the choice to use extra sturdy metal bracing was likely very deliberate. As the eBay listing shows mica spacers instead of metal, these tubes should be considered ordinary 6N8S with perforated plates.

Of course, I have no idea if an ordinary 6N8S with perforated plates will sound the same as a real 1578, and at that price I am not willing to make that comparison for you. lol


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 29, 2018)

Autostart said:


> Hello tube family. I'm in the market for an " endgame " tube amp. I really don't like using the who endgame thing because there really is no end in sight, but I've recently sold my WA22 tube amp and looking for something next level. I've heard so much about the 300B tube and would really like to give it a shot. Are there any members that have one of Glenn's 300B amps that could answers a few questions along with maybe posting some pictures?
> 
> Thank you




If you look through the thread you will find plenty of pictures and impressions

If you don't feel like working your way through the thread, I am sure someone will help you out .

Here are a few pictures of one of Glenns 300B amps.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-903#post-12659707


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I would rather save my money and roll headphones



That is true. At some point all this tubes buying must stop.

It's tempting to buy a Utopia but I have another itch I need to scratch. I am going to buy a super monitor. The Axis VoiceBox S. Heard this 3 months ago in my system and it's the most ham fisted, tight bass, ultra revealing top end and a sound if you close your eyes, you would never have guess it's coming from a pair of small speakers.

And if you need ECC33, please do talk to Stavros, a fine gentleman.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> As these do not have steel leaf springs supporting the upper mica, these are not "real" 1578. Metal spring spacers are one of the essential features of the 1578. The 1578 was designed to be a low noise and low microphonic version of the 6N8S, and the choice to use extra sturdy metal bracing was likely very deliberate. As the eBay listing shows mica spacers instead of metal, these tubes should be considered ordinary 6N8S with perforated plates.
> 
> Of course, I have no idea if an ordinary 6N8S with perforated plates will sound the same as a real 1578, and at that price I am not willing to make that comparison for you. lol



With so many versions of 1578, I will just give up.


----------



## Autostart

whirlwind said:


> If you look through the thread you will find plenty of pictures and impressions
> 
> If you don't feel like working your way through the thread, I am sure someone will help you out .
> 
> ...



Thank you for this post. I have seen that amp and post before and a quick search reveals even more. I have been most curious as to the tube layout Glenn 300B amps take ( compatibility list ) and if it's possible to get the standard 300B, 5U4 and 6SN7 tubes in the kit? I do have to admit I am still learning / reading up on all Glenn's amp. I need to be out on the list but first must pick out an amp.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> With so many versions of 1578, I will just give up.



Rather, I would say that there is only one version of the 1578: perforated plates and metal spring spacers. And there are many versions of 6N8S.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> No I don't have the ribbed version. Only the flat $4 version.
> 
> So if you send me a ribbed version I'll tell you how it compares with my other drivers.


Deal. Send me the ECC33 so I can compare it to my version.

I can buy you the rib.


----------



## mordy

HI Gibosi,

Was scrolling through Marconi tubes - a virtual alphabet soup.
Was just wondering if you have this cool looking dual triode made by Marconi - Osram in your collection:


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> HI Gibosi,
> 
> Was scrolling through Marconi tubes - a virtual alphabet soup.
> Was just wondering if you have this cool looking dual triode made by Marconi - Osram in your collection:



lol... No, I don't have this one...

Judging by the datasheet, this appears to have been commonly used as a push-pull rf amplifier. I doubt that it would work well in the OTL, but until Glenn looks at it, I don't know.

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/139/d/DET19.pdf


----------



## leftside

Autostart said:


> Hello tube family. I'm in the market for an " endgame " tube amp. I really don't like using the who endgame thing because there really is no end in sight, but I've recently sold my WA22 tube amp and looking for something next level. I've heard so much about the 300B tube and would really like to give it a shot. Are there any members that have one of Glenn's 300B amps that could answers a few questions along with maybe posting some pictures?
> 
> Thank you


I have both amps. The WA22 and the Glenn 300B. I still really like the WA22, but there's a reason the Glenn is in the dedicated music room and the WA22 is in the living room.

I noticed in your other post that you were looking for the 6SN7 and perhaps tube rolling. In that case you might want to consider one of the other amps. From what I can tell from comments, the other amps have a similar sound signature to the 300B, but the 300B has more power and obviously it has those 300B tubes - which are a blessing and a curse. Fabulous tubes (perhaps my favorite) but expensive.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> If I ever get any cash flow...I may look for an ECC33 again.


ECC35 should be next on your shopping list.


----------



## UntilThen

My head-fi setup just got simpler and better. After 3.5 months, the OTL has stabilised. My head-fi setup takes up most of my time. I'm connected with it. The enjoyment factor is immense. 

Yggdrasil > Glenn Super 9 OTL amp > HD800 / Eikon with ECC33 and Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> ECC35 should be next on your shopping list.



I'm glad it's his shipping list and not mine.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Really enjoying the 12AU7 in the GOTL....talk about a well behaved tube, super quiet, sounds great,  and has just the right amount of gain to feed 
the six pack of 6BL7's....


----------



## Autostart

leftside said:


> I have both amps. The WA22 and the Glenn 300B. I still really like the WA22, but there's a reason the Glenn is in the dedicated music room and the WA22 is in the living room.
> 
> I noticed in your other post that you were looking for the 6SN7 and perhaps tube rolling. In that case you might want to consider one of the other amps. From what I can tell from comments, the other amps have a similar sound signature to the 300B, but the 300B has more power and obviously it has those 300B tubes - which are a blessing and a curse. Fabulous tubes (perhaps my favorite) but expensive.



I did like the WA22 also but was looking for that little something that everyone talks about. As for the 6SN7.... I was only wanting them in my amp build because that's what I know. It's not necessary and after speaking with Glenn I have come to realize they're not compatible in the Glenn 300B.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 29, 2018)

mordy said:


> HI Gibosi,
> 
> Was scrolling through Marconi tubes - a virtual alphabet soup.
> Was just wondering if you have this cool looking dual triode made by Marconi - Osram in your collection:



Since it would seem that you are looking for interesting GEC double triodes, you might be interested in the GEC BL63, also known by its Royal Air Force number, VR102. This tube draws 1.3 amps of heater current, so in that regard, it is more like a 6BL7 than a 6SN7. Some call it a 6F8G on steroids. lol.

Due to the required heater draw, not many amps can run this as a driver, but in the Glenn it is fine. It uses the same adapter as a 6F8G, but as it is taller, not all 6F8G adapters will work, the wire may not be long enough. In that case it might be necessary to pick up a BL63 to 6SN7 adapter, which of course, can also be used with 6F8G. BL63 are not common, but they do show up every so often on eBay.

Below, shown next to a 6F8G for scale.


----------



## mordy (Mar 30, 2018)

gibosi said:


> Since it would seem that you are looking for interesting GEC double triodes, you might be interested in the GEC BL63, also known by its Royal Air Force number, VR102. This tube draws 1.3 amps of heater current, so in that regard, it is more like a 6BL7 than a 6SN7. Some call it a 6F8G on steroids. lol.
> 
> Due to the required heater draw, not many amps can run this as a driver, but in the Glenn it is fine. It uses the same adapter as a 6F8G, but as it is taller, not all 6F8G adapters will work, the wire may not be long enough. In that case it might be necessary to pick up a BL63 to 6SN7 adapter, which of course, can also be used with 6F8G. BL63 are not common, but they do show up every so often on eBay.
> 
> Below, shown next to a 6F8G for scale.


HI g,

I just posted tongue-in-cheek because it reminded me of the Russian 6C33C tube.




Re the giant BL63 tube, the selling price is around $120-170 for one tube. My question is if the sound from it warrants such an expense, compared to less expensive good sounding tubes.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> I'm glad it's his shipping list and not mine.


Should be on yours too


----------



## UntilThen

ECC35 has a much higher gain. Similar to 6SL7. Not sure how that will work in Glenn's OTL.


----------



## whirlwind

Autostart said:


> Thank you for this post. I have seen that amp and post before and a quick search reveals even more. I have been most curious as to the tube layout Glenn 300B amps take ( compatibility list ) and if it's possible to get the standard 300B, 5U4 and 6SN7 tubes in the kit? I do have to admit I am still learning / reading up on all Glenn's amp. I need to be out on the list but first must pick out an amp.



The 300B amp takes two 3


leftside said:


> ECC35 should be next on your shopping list.



Maybe sometime down the road...but not anytime soon.
The next tube that I plan to buy will be rectifier tubes for the EL3N amp, and I don't see that happening any time soon.
I have enough tubes to last a life time for the OTL amp, so it is hard to make more tubes for it a priority....I will never say never though.

Sometimes you know what you want to do next, you can see it in the future, but what you see is at the end of a long straight road, on the way to the end of that road are a bunch of cross roads
If you have tunnel vision maybe you can get to the end of that long straight road quicker......but it is hard not to take a right or left turn at all of these crossroads, it is fun to take the turns, but they can be costly  

As far as gear goes, if i would have left my sons amp in his room and not stuck it on my desktop with the EL3N amp I would still be very happy...but that spoiled me and I loved having both at my finger tips.
So I am in line for an OTL amp.   After this, besides a few rectifier tubes that I want to try...I am all good.
Maybe exchange one headphone for another if I get the itch....there are some that I definitely would like to try with my gear, but no hurry.

Mainly I am just enjoying the hell out of my music at this point....probably as much as I did in my 20's and 30's and I am so  grateful for it.

Time to stop rambling, LOL


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Since it would seem that you are looking for interesting GEC double triodes, you might be interested in the GEC BL63, also known by its Royal Air Force number, VR102. This tube draws 1.3 amps of heater current, so in that regard, it is more like a 6BL7 than a 6SN7. Some call it a 6F8G on steroids. lol.
> 
> Due to the required heater draw, not many amps can run this as a driver, but in the Glenn it is fine. It uses the same adapter as a 6F8G, but as it is taller, not all 6F8G adapters will work, the wire may not be long enough. In that case it might be necessary to pick up a BL63 to 6SN7 adapter, which of course, can also be used with 6F8G. BL63 are not common, but they do show up every so often on eBay.
> 
> Below, shown next to a 6F8G for scale.



Can we use VR100 instead Ken?

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_vr100.html

VR100 is still quite cheap


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> HI g,
> 
> I just posted tongue-in-cheek because it reminded me of the Russian 6C33C tube.
> 
> Re the giant BL63 tube, the selling price is around $120-170 for one tube. My question is if the sound from it warrants such an expense, compared to less expensive good sounding tubes.



Are they going for that much now? As I have a self-imposed limit of $125 per tube, and at that price it has to be something I really, really want, I would say it probably isn't worth it. I gave something less than $100 for mine several years ago. It does have the typical GEC sound which I quite like, but it isn't that special. So I would say that if you can find one at a good price, go for it.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Can we use VR100 instead Ken?
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_vr100.html
> 
> VR100 is still quite cheap



Unfortunately, the VR100 is a tetrode. It is likely possible to strap it as a triode and then run a pair, but I doubt the results would be all that great....


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, the VR100 is a tetrode. It is likely possible to strap it as a triode and then run a pair, but I doubt the results would be all that great....



Thanks for your advice Ken


----------



## rnros

@UntilThen, IIRC you were looking for the Cetron 6528A last year. 
Very hard to find, I have also searched for these in the last 6 months.
Seller on eBay has these listed. Good tubes, good seller, good price.
Sound similar to the 6336B, but IMHO does not surpass them in any way. 
(However, only 30hrs on 6528s vs hundreds of hours on 6336Bs.)
May be different for someone with different gear/headphones.
Amplification factor is similar to 6BX7, 10 for 6BX7 vs 9 for 6528.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-Cetr...-Ruggedized-60-Watt-Twin-Triode/292472707406?


----------



## gibosi

rnros said:


> @UntilThen, IIRC you were looking for the Cetron 6528A last year.
> Very hard to find, I have also searched for these in the last 6 months.
> Seller on eBay has these listed. Good tubes, good seller, good price.
> *Sound similar to the 6336B, but IMHO does not surpass them in any way.*
> ...



(*Bold added by me*)  This is my experience as well. IMO, the only reason to run 6528 is the output impedance is lower and thus, they should be able to drive low-Z cans even better than the 6336.

A Raytheon-branded 6528, manufactured in 1962, about 20 years earlier than the Cetrons on eBay.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> (*Bold added by me*)  This is my experience as well. IMO, the only reason to run 6528 is the output impedance is lower and thus, they should be able to drive low-Z cans even better than the 6336.
> 
> A Raytheon-branded 6528, manufactured in 1962, about 20 years earlier than the Cetrons on eBay.


In preparation for my coming GOTL, I bought some Cetron 6336B tubes. They measured approximately 90% and to me look NOS. Paid less than $15 each.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> In preparation for my coming GOTL, I bought some Cetron 6336B tubes. They measured approximately 90% and to me look NOS. Paid less than $15 each.



Great find at that price


----------



## rnros (Mar 30, 2018)

gibosi said:


> (*Bold added by me*)  This is my experience as well. IMO, the only reason to run 6528 is the output impedance is lower and thus, they should be able to drive low-Z cans even better than the 6336.
> 
> A Raytheon-branded 6528, manufactured in 1962, about 20 years earlier than the Cetrons on eBay.



Yes, low-Z and perhaps low efficiency. For low-Z cans I use, the CTN 6336Bs are hard to beat.
Very happy to have a pair for comparison, will definitely give them more time at some point.

I have Raytheon versions of the 6336 from the '60s, look like the 6528 in your photo.
There is a sound difference between the earlier and later versions of these tubes.
(Later version meaning the last Cetron version.)


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> In preparation for my coming GOTL, I bought some Cetron 6336B tubes. They measured approximately 90% and to me look NOS. Paid less than $15 each.



When you last posted about these, I thought you may have been the one who won the eBay auctions at that price level.
I saw those but already had some. Only one bidder. Those were from the late '70s IIRC.
Seller had the different pairs described as 'small' and ' large' getters. Actually was referring to the amount of getter flashing.
Heard the late '70s CTN 6336B, identical to the '80s. (Last year of production may have been '87.)

Seems to be the case with these, not always available, but when they are, not many have amps that can use them.
Another reason GOTL is a great amp. : )
Guessing that if the demand was higher, we would see these listed more often.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> @UntilThen, IIRC you were looking for the Cetron 6528A last year.
> Very hard to find, I have also searched for these in the last 6 months.
> Seller on eBay has these listed. Good tubes, good seller, good price.
> Sound similar to the 6336B, but IMHO does not surpass them in any way.
> ...



Ros, thanks for letting me know. Very nice shining tubes. I've written to the seller asking for postage to Australia.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Ros, thanks for letting me know. Very nice shining tubes. I've written to the seller asking for postage to Australia.



Sure, you're welcome. Yes, pristine NOS quality. 
Also has the CTN 6336B, also perfect NOS quality.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Great find at that price





rnros said:


> When you last posted about these, I thought you may have been the one who won the eBay auctions at that price level.
> I saw those but already had some. Only one bidder. Those were from the late '70s IIRC.
> Seller had the different pairs described as 'small' and ' large' getters. Actually was referring to the amount of getter flashing.
> Heard the late '70s CTN 6336B, identical to the '80s. (Last year of production may have been '87.)
> ...


Hi mros,
You are right - I am the one. Also bought two individual 6336B tubes from a Florida seller. One is a Cetron and one a Raytheon. Even though the Cetron has a beefier construction, I could not hear any difference in the short listening test that I did to try out the tube.
Used a temporary setup with an external power source which is not ideal.
Once I have the GOTL I will be able to properly evaluate the tubes.


----------



## mordy (Mar 30, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi mros,
> You are right - I am the one. Also bought two individual 6336B tubes from a Florida seller. One is a Cetron and one a Raytheon. Even though the Cetron has a beefier construction, I could not hear any difference in the short listening test that I did to try out the tube.
> Used a temporary setup with an external power source which is not ideal.
> Once I have the GOTL I will be able to properly evaluate the tubes.





UntilThen said:


> Ros, thanks for letting me know. Very nice shining tubes. I've written to the seller asking for postage to Australia.





rnros said:


> Sure, you're welcome. Yes, pristine NOS quality.
> Also has the CTN 6336B, also perfect NOS quality.


Hi UT,

Maybe this seller has more:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/QUAD-CETRO...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Mordy.

Running Mullard ECC31 with Cetron 6336b. Very quiet combination in the OTL. Very good tone. I can give the 5998 a rest now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Thanks Mordy.
> 
> Running Mullard ECC31 with Cetron 6336b. Very quiet combination in the OTL. Very good tone. I can give the 5998 a rest now.




Nice!  I was running ECC31/5998's this morning   

I don't have any 6336b's...can't find deals like @mordy  gets!


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice!  I was running ECC31/5998's this morning
> 
> I don't have any 6336b's...can't find deals like @mordy  gets!



ECC31/5998 is very very nice tone. Leonard Cohen never sounded better. 

But ECC31/6336b is just as good to my ears. When you consider the price difference between 6336b and 5998, you should get yourself a pristine NOS pair of 6336b or 6528a.


----------



## rnros (Mar 30, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi mros,
> You are right - I am the one. Also bought two individual 6336B tubes from a Florida seller. One is a Cetron and one a Raytheon. Even though the Cetron has a beefier construction, I could not hear any difference in the short listening test that I did to try out the tube.
> Used a temporary setup with an external power source which is not ideal.
> Once I have the GOTL I will be able to properly evaluate the tubes.



Nice win, Mordy.
Look forward to your impressions when you get the GOTL.
Always IMHO, but there is a difference with these for me, on my gear.
IME, CTN 6336B needs 60 hrs to reach full potential and total consistent quiet.
I do have 3 matched pairs of the Raytheon, nice tubes, especially for the $40/pair price.
There are a lot of tubes to love with the GOTL : )


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Thanks Mordy.
> 
> Running Mullard ECC31 with Cetron 6336b. Very quiet combination in the OTL. Very good tone. I can give the 5998 a rest now.



I've been listening to that combination since I acquired the ECC31 on your recommendation. 
Fantastic.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> That is true. At some point all this tubes buying must stop.
> 
> It's tempting to buy a Utopia but I have another itch I need to scratch. I am going to buy a super monitor. The Axis VoiceBox S. Heard this 3 months ago in my system and it's the most ham fisted, tight bass, ultra revealing top end and a sound if you close your eyes, you would never have guess it's coming from a pair of small speakers.
> 
> And if you need ECC33, please do talk to Stavros, a fine gentleman.


What does a pair of those VoiceBox S speakers cost?  It looks like they're using a custom RAAL ribbon tweeter.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> That is true. At some point all this tubes buying must stop.
> 
> It's tempting to buy a Utopia but I have another itch I need to scratch. I am going to buy a super monitor. The Axis VoiceBox S. Heard this 3 months ago in my system and it's the most ham fisted, tight bass, ultra revealing top end and a sound if you close your eyes, you would never have guess it's coming from a pair of small speakers.
> 
> And if you need ECC33, please do talk to Stavros, a fine gentleman.



I will be talking to Stavros tomorrow morning on Skype
Will tell him to get in touch about the ECC33.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> What does a pair of those VoiceBox S speakers cost?  It looks like they're using a custom RAAL ribbon tweeter.



$2500. In US, distributor is colleencardasimports.com. It is using a custom ribbon tweeter. The designer, John Reilly brought a pair to my home for me to hear it about 3 months ago. I was very impressed.

There are some reviews.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/axis/1.html

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/axis-voicebox-s-loudspeaker/


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> I've been listening to that combination since I acquired the ECC31 on your recommendation.
> Fantastic.



The seller replied that he will post to Sydney but has to wait to Monday to find out the shipping charges. Bet it cost more than the tubes !!! 

However I'm excited and looking forward to the 6528 tubes. I had just purchased 4 Svetlana 6n13s power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I will be talking to Stavros tomorrow morning on Skype
> Will tell him to get in touch about the ECC33.



Tell him I say 'hi'. Stavros has supplied me with some really good tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

ECC31 seems a bit 'darker' to me in Glenn's GOTL than what it sounded like in Elise.  It does pair well with 5998 in the GOTL.  

But, it also does well with 4x 6BL7's (which I think are a tad less bass heavy than 6BL7's). 

ECC31 has more gain than 6SN7, so use 4x instead of 6x BX's...


----------



## gibosi

rnros said:


> Nice win, Mordy.
> Look forward to your impressions when you get the GOTL.
> Always IMHO, but there is a difference with these for me, on my gear.
> IME, CTN 6336B needs 60 hrs to reach full potential and total consistent quiet.
> ...



I have been wondering whether Raytheon actually manufactured the 6336 and 6528 or simply rebranded them. Based on your experience, among the US manufacturers, it is beginning to look like Raytheon, Chatham and perhaps RCA manufactured these tubes in the 1960s. But by the 1980s, only Cetron (which purchased Tung-Sol, which purchased Chatham) was making them. But this is still just a guess on my part.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Sound similar to the 6336B, but IMHO does not surpass them in any way.
> (However, only 30hrs on 6528s vs hundreds of hours on 6336Bs.)



Hi Ros again. You said that 6528 sounds similar to 6336b? Kind of surprising as the 6528 transconductance is so much higher at 37,000 umhos and a mu of 9. Btw the seller is offering the A version and there are 6528, 6528A, 6528B versions.

Here's some data 'borrowed' from another source.

6AS7G/6080 (et al.) u = 2.0 Gm = 7,000 umhos, Pd = 13 W/sect. 
5998 u = 5.4 Gm = 15,500 umhos, Pd = 13 W/sect. 
5998A u = 5.4 Gm = 15,500 umhos, Pd = 15 W/sect. 

6336 u = 2.7 Gm = 11,000 umhos, Pd = 30W/sect. 
6336A u = 2.7 Gm = 13,000 umhos, Pd = 30 W/sect. 

6528 u = 9.0 Gm = 37,000 umhos, Pd = 30 W/sect


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> So I am in line for an OTL amp.



What configuration? 

I've come a full circle. I started loving 6 x 6BX7 the most but now I realise that I like the other power tubes just as much. Tung Sol 5998, Gec 6as7g, Gec 6080, Bendix 6080wb, Svetlana 6h13c, Cetron 6336b. Plus all my favourite drivers.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> ...transconductance....



I don't know that transconductance has any relationship to sound.

In this case, rnros has 6336 and 6528, both manufactured at the about the same time and in the same factory. And in my experience, this is more important than transconductance, gain or any other measurement....


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 31, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> What configuration?
> 
> I've come a full circle. I started loving 6 x 6BX7 the most but now I realise that I like the other power tubes just as much. Tung Sol 5998, Gec 6as7g, Gec 6080, Bendix 6080wb, Svetlana 6h13c, Cetron 6336b. Plus all my favourite drivers.




Six power sockets
C3g
6/12/25 driver switch
Lundahl with 42EC4/PY500 rectifier
Gold Point Stepped Attenuator

It is very hard not to like all of the different tubes and enjoy them when you have many  and you have many great ones.

Have you tried four  6AS7 power tubes with your LCD 2 ?
 If so, how did you like the impact compared to a pair of 6336B powers ?

Like you, I could live with just a couple of my favorite combos, but it is very nice to be able to hear something a little different at times.

I may have to buy a few of the Svetlana 6H13C power tubes to lay around with...the price is right.

When I first started listening to headphones, I really liked the top end of the spectrum the most..it provides so much detail.
I have come to like the warmer sound as the years pass and I tend to love the bottom end of the spectrum more than ever before.
I like the bottom end of the warmer sound a lot now, as it seems to blend in seamlessly  with a lot of my blues music.   Glenns OTL is so transparent to tube rolling
and the bass it provides has impact and detail

It is hard to not go down the tube rabbit hole if you own one of Glenns OTL amps.  

This amp is also great for people who are just getting into tubes.  Glenn makes sure of that by making it use some very great sounding and cheaper tubes.
Heck if you want you can just grab  six 6BL7/6BX7 and a pair of C3g  and a rectifier of choice if needed and be done.
This combo will be a good as about anything you can buy tube wise for this amp, and will save a person "oodles" of cash.

My son and his girlfriend may just be living a couple of blocks away from us.
If this is the house they choose, then I know my wife will want to go over often.  I can just take a pair of my headphones over and my son and I can both plug into his amp, pretty cool.

My son has the Senn HD650 and a Grado 225i.
I may grab a SE to 4 pin XLR adapter and I can use my HD800 when over there.


----------



## 2359glenn

The best deal on tubes is the 1633 and Svetlana 6H13C.
This combo sounds great and might have a total cost of $25
For those that use a 5U4 type rectifier the Svetlana 5U3C is a great rectifier for a couple of dollars and the 3DG4 for a couple of dollars.


----------



## 2359glenn

My headphone amp uses two #27 drivers and 6H13C 
A 5U8C rectifier that can handle the large filter capacitor inrush. I use
massive filtering for B+ and the 2.5 volt DC for the #27s.
No noise is the most important thing that is why I exclusively use the 6H13C outputs.
And have a pair of noise free 27s hard to find.
Hard to believe I am not a tube roller.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 31, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> What configuration?
> 
> I've come a full circle. I started loving 6 x 6BX7 the most but now I realise that I like the other power tubes just as much. Tung Sol 5998, Gec 6as7g, Gec 6080, Bendix 6080wb, Svetlana 6h13c, Cetron 6336b. Plus all my favourite drivers.



Yes, I have found 6x 6BL/BX7 require very quiet driver tubes.

Less quiet drivers appreciate the much lower gain 6AS7/6080's...or 5998's by themselves.  My Chatham 6AS7's sound really dandy, paired with my Mullard 6080's.

My quietest drivers are the 12AU7, a Raytheon 12SN7 and the 1633 and some Raytheon and Sylvania 6SN7's.

Noisy drivers for me are C3g (mine are _very_ microphonic) FDD20 had development a lot of noises.  Many vintage 6SN7 are pretty noisy, too, as are my 2x ECC31's, all these are best used with the lower gain power tubes. 

But Glenn's amp makes sure you can find a tube combo to suit every driver....


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> My headphone amp uses two #27 drivers and 6H13C
> A 5U8C rectifier that can handle the large filter capacitor inrush. I use
> massive filtering for B+ and the 2.5 volt DC for the #27s.
> No noise is the most important thing that is why I exclusively use the 6H13C outputs.
> ...



You sent me a 5U8C rectifier and adapter with my EL3N amp.
It is a pretty huge rectifier tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> My headphone amp uses two #27 drivers and 6H13C
> A 5U8C rectifier that can handle the large filter capacitor inrush. I use
> massive filtering for B+ and the 2.5 volt DC for the #27s.
> No noise is the most important thing that is why I exclusively use the 6H13C outputs.
> ...



When you find your sweet combo....stay with it!


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> My headphone amp uses two #27 drivers and 6H13C
> A 5U8C rectifier that can handle the large filter capacitor inrush. I use
> massive filtering for B+ and the 2.5 volt DC for the #27s.
> No noise is the most important thing that is why I exclusively use the 6H13C outputs.
> ...


Saved you tons of hard-earn $$$$$$$$$$$$$.


----------



## attmci

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, I have found 6x 6BL/BX7 require very quiet driver tubes.
> 
> Less quiet drivers appreciate the much lower gain 6AS7/6080's...or 5998's by themselves.  My Chatham 6AS7's sound really dandy, paired with my Mullard 6080's.
> 
> ...


The quietest 12AU7s are those 7316s.
Did you use a 12au7 to 6sn7 adapter?


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> My headphone amp uses two #27 drivers and 6H13C
> A 5U8C rectifier that can handle the large filter capacitor inrush. I use
> massive filtering for B+ and the 2.5 volt DC for the #27s.
> No noise is the most important thing that is why I exclusively use the 6H13C outputs.
> ...



And of course it is possible to use 27s in the OTL. However, I strongly suspect that Glenn's personal amp, designed from the ground-up to use 27s, is quieter.


----------



## 2359glenn (Mar 31, 2018)

Yes I gone crazy to make it quiet. It uses the same Heybore transformer in your amp.
Has separate filament transformers for the 27s with 4 chokes and a multitude of 22,000 uf caps just for the 2.5 volt filament supply.
2 monster 4,700 uf filter caps for the B+ this is why I need to use the massive 5U8C I originally used a 5U4 and it blue up.
My utmost requirement is quiet I will have a problem if one of these 27s go bad.
I think that the 26 and 27 are the best sounding tubes if you can find quiet ones..


----------



## gibosi

If I ever find myself in your neck of the woods, I would sure like to have a listen.


----------



## rnros

gibosi said:


> I have been wondering whether Raytheon actually manufactured the 6336 and 6528 or simply rebranded them. Based on your experience, among the US manufacturers, it is beginning to look like Raytheon, Chatham and perhaps RCA manufactured these tubes in the 1960s. But by the 1980s, only Cetron (which purchased Tung-Sol, which purchased Chatham) was making them. But this is still just a guess on my part.



I think you are correct about Cetron and the 6336B in the 1980s. I read that Cetron acquired the Tung-Sol designs in 1975, yet I have seen photos of Cetron 6336Bs dated 1972, but those could be rebranded Tung-Sol. The earliest date I have seen on a 6336B spec sheet is the Tung-Sol dated 1965. Both the Tung-Sol and the Cetron have the same tall bottle design allowing for the revised construction/design below the first stage mica plates, along with other interior revisions. The TS 1965 spec sheet (and photos of 1970 TS 6336B) have ceramic plate stages/mounts, by 1972 the ceramic plates were changed to double stacked mica plates.

There are Raytheon 6336Bs with the earlier short bottle design and interior construction/design similar to the the 'A' version. Perhaps Raytheon was able to meet the military 'B' spec with a simpler revision to the 'A' design?

As far as the earlier 6336 and 6336A versions, there seem to be a number of different manufacturers, or labels, including at least two European brands.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> It is hard to not go down the tube rabbit hole if you own one of Glenns OTL amps.


These threads are reminding me of what I was like a couple of years ago. It was fun, but hurt my pocket. I now have a nice tube collection though.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> When you find your sweet combo....stay with it!


Yes.
On the Glenn 300B: Valvo PY500 + Siemen C3G Post + Tak 300B.
On the WA22: TS5998 + Mullard ECC33 + Cossor 53KU. 6BL7/6BX7 for power are also my favorites, but my wife and I don't like the ugly adapters in the living room. Fine in a dedicated music listening room though.

I also like other tubes in the WA22 like the ECC32, B65, and WE421A, but the price makes these more like museum items than something you might actually want to use/blow up.


----------



## leftside

rnros said:


> I think you are correct about Cetron and the 6336B in the 1980s. I read that Cetron acquired the Tung-Sol designs in 1975, yet I have seen photos of Cetron 6336Bs dated 1972, but those could be rebranded Tung-Sol.


I have a pair of Western Electric 421A's from 1985.


----------



## rnros (Mar 31, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Hi Ros again. You said that 6528 sounds similar to 6336b? Kind of surprising as the 6528 transconductance is so much higher at 37,000 umhos and a mu of 9. Btw the seller is offering the A version and there are 6528, 6528A, 6528B versions.
> 
> Here's some data 'borrowed' from another source.
> 
> ...





gibosi said:


> I don't know that transconductance has any relationship to sound.
> 
> In this case, rnros has 6336 and 6528, both manufactured at the about the same time and in the same factory. And in my experience, this is more important than transconductance, gain or any other measurement....



I have to agree with gibosi here, I think the SQ characteristics, that we would typically discuss, are more the result of the construction/design than the performance specs of gain and transconductance. The accuracy, or sonic characteristics, of the signal amplification always seem to have some relationship to the construction/design, brand, factory, etc. At least those sonic characteristics we judge by ear, rather than by instrument.

There are many tubes with the same gain and transconductance that have very different sound characteristics. And there are tubes from the same production run with variances in transconductance that still show the same sound characteristics. Also as the tube ages, or the operating points are changed, etc. True we are talking about a larger magnitude of variance with the 6528 vs the 6336, but the sonic characteristics are more similar than different, at least on my setup. Yes, there are some differences but not as great as I expected, and I suspect it will vary for different rigs and headphones.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> The quietest 12AU7s are those 7316s.
> Did you use a 12au7 to 6sn7 adapter?



12AU7 to 12SN7 adapter.


----------



## 2359glenn

There are many 12AU7s that sound better and are quieter then 6SN7s.
I have a old preamp with 12AU7s they are labeled Harman Kardon made in Germany that sound fantastic.
BTW I used to work for Harman Kardon.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Six power sockets
> C3g
> 6/12/25 driver switch
> Lundahl with 42EC4/PY500 rectifier
> ...



Good choice with that configuration. 6 x 6BX7 with a quiet combination is a very satisfying tone.

I've tried 4 x 6AS7 and 4 x 5998 but I find 2 x 6AS7 quieter and like most here, quiet is more important for me too. Both Cetron 6336b and Svetlana 6h13c sound very good on the OTL but my favourite is still Gec 6AS7G and Gec 6080. That is reserved for special occasions though. LCD-2f is quite easy to drive at 70 ohms. Even 2 x 6AS7 drives it well. However I might find 4 x 6as7 that is very quiet and I think I might prefer it. 4 does have a greater impact. That's why I've 4 Svetlana 6h13c on the way.

I've the best part of yesterday going through my headphones with ECC31 and 2 x Cetron 6336b. HD800, Eikon, Atticus and LCD-2f. I like them all. I find it hard to decide which 2 to cull from my collection. I might have to keep it all. 

_It is very hard not to like all of the different tubes and enjoy them when you have many  and you have many great ones._

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. You have a lot of tubes too and many good ones.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 31, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> There are many 12AU7s that sound better and are quieter then 6SN7s.
> I have a old preamp with 12AU7s they are labeled Harman Kardon made in Germany that sound fantastic.
> BTW I used to work for Harman Kardon.



Very nice, Glenn!!!  I keep an eye on CL and buy every HK table I can, and restore them.  Here is a T-55c that belonged to a heavy smoker...took it apart and cleaned it throughly with lighter fluid to get the tar and nicotine off of it....it is a daily user in the Analog Den.  Early 80's had the HK 201 amp...think it was 20 watts per channel...lasted years until my house was broken into and it was stolen....along with 2x Teac 4010s reel to reel decks DBX unit, and a Sansui 4 mike stereo mixer that had reverb in it.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

The 12AU7 and 6x 6BL7's...




May favorite feature of the GOTL, after the 6x power tube capability:



The 6/12/25 voltage driver switch...

Genius!!


----------



## UntilThen

Everyone have their favourite combo that is super quiet. This is one of mine. Good luck Wazzupi.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Very nice, Glenn!!!  I keep an eye on CL and buy every HK table I can, and restore them.  Here is a T-55c that belonged to a heavy smoker...took it apart and cleaned it throughly with lighter fluid to get the tar and nicotine off of it....it is a daily user in the Analog Den.  Early 80's had the HK 201 amp...think it was 20 watts per channel...lasted years until my house was broken into and it was stolen....along with 2x Teac 4010s reel to reel decks DBX unit, and a Sansui 4 mike stereo mixer that had reverb in it.....



It was neat working or Harman Kardon got to work with some of the best audio engineers in the world.
We got to buy any product at cost less then 1/2 price. Then they would raffle off prototype equipment could get stereos for $15
I have a HK ST7 inline tracking turntable with a _Ortofon Moving coil cartridge haven't used it in 7 years since I moved._


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Everyone have their favourite combo that is super quiet. This is one of mine. Good luck Wazzupi.


Lol, thanks man ! I appreciate everyones feedback, valuable info and suggestions & concerns it has helped me make my own decision on what I wanted in a tube amp especially a custom one when I have no knowledge of the matter. Tube rolling has been made easy, that's thanks to everyone in this thread. I hope to spread the knowledge as much as I can and add to this awesome, ongoing thread in the future. I'll also be doing my best in my local scene, as I am a part of ongoing meets in florida and hope to expand them going forward. Glenn otl is going to be on full display, in Florida this year !


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> $2500. In US, distributor is colleencardasimports.com. It is using a custom ribbon tweeter. The designer, John Reilly brought a pair to my home for me to hear it about 3 months ago. I was very impressed.
> 
> There are some reviews.
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/axis/1.html
> ...


$2,500 is a bit precious for how I would use them I'm afraid.  Thanks for the info though.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I will be talking to Stavros tomorrow morning on Skype
> Will tell him to get in touch about the ECC33.



Next time you talk to him say hi for me too.  The last few times I have messaged him he never replied to me.  I'm not sure what happened but if I can't wish him well then maybe somebody can do it for me instead.


----------



## whirlwind

Happy Easter.


----------



## UntilThen

Happy Easter and I'm happy to report that all my B36 tubes are quiet with 6 x 6BX7, including the black base, foreign made ones.


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 1, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Happy Easter and I'm happy to report that all my B36 tubes are quiet with 6 x 6BX7, including the black base, foreign made ones.




The 6 volt version of that driver tube will break the bank.
Gotta love the 12 volt.    

Nice pic.


Here are a couple of cool threads for the 6SN7 drivers may be some use to some folk.

/www.head-fi.org/threads/the-6sn7-identification-guide.209782/

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6sn7-tube-addicts.479031/page-411
@rosgr63  started this thread......AKA Starvos  

Great info in both.
These threads and gibosi's help and I identified most of my 6/12SN7 tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is the box for a Raytheon 12SN7 that an Ebay tube seller 'threw in' in an order for several 6BL7's - a couple of years ago.  
Had never heard it, but just tried it on the GOTL...and it sounded very good!



And I see that the tube is "so good" that it earned the seal of "Good Housekeeping" LOL:




Also, the cap came off my National Union (re-branded Ken-Rad)  6F8G, so I used 2 part epoxy to cement it back on...hope this works!


----------



## 2359glenn

You have to solder the wire too


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Here is the box for a Raytheon 12SN7 that an Ebay tube seller 'threw in' in an order for several 6BL7's - a couple of years ago.
> Had never heard it, but just tried it on the GOTL...and it sounded very good!



Good to know that the 12SN7 sounds good because the B36 sure does sound good.

I'm also very happy to report that the ECC33 is now super quiet with 6 x 6BX7. I'm on a quest to find out which of my drivers are quiet with 6BX7. The more the merrier because I do like using these power tubes. With 6 in the sockets, the texture of the tone is rich.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Happy Easter and I'm happy to report that all my B36 tubes are quiet with 6 x 6BX7, including the black base, foreign made ones.


Reason enough to get a GOTL if you can run B36 tubes. I have a matching pair of B65 metal base, but once I saw the rising prices I decided to never use them again. Shame really as they have a super silky smoothness. I also have a few B65 black base that are much cheaper and they sound fairly similar. 

BTW - UntilThen - I thought you were done with playing around with different tubes?  It's a tough habit to break, and you guys have got me wanting to roll in a few different tubes this weekend.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Reason enough to get a GOTL if you can run B36 tubes. I have a matching pair of B65 metal base, but once I saw the rising prices I decided to never use them again. Shame really as they have a super silky smoothness. I also have a few B65 black base that are much cheaper and they sound fairly similar.
> 
> BTW - UntilThen - I thought you were done with playing around with different tubes?  It's a tough habit to break, and you guys have got me wanting to roll in a few different tubes this weekend.



You must be very rich now because these Osram B65 have a asking price of US$3000.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/B65-6SN7GT...rentrq:8361fedc1620a9c10e0ff348fff904f5|iid:1 

Many reasons to buy a GOTL but only one stands out for me. That one reason is you can get so many different euphonic tones out of it. Right now, I cannot pinpoint which tube combinations has the best tone because they are all amazing. 

These 3 B36 came from Stavros and I cannot tell their tone apart. They sound very similar to me. I am using the black base now and it's a glorious rich tone. You only need to use one in the GOTL. How good is that.

Give up playing with tubes? That would be hard. Well maybe until the VoiceBox arrives next weekend. Now go and roll your tubes and show me your nice ECC3* collections.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> ....
> 
> These 3 B36 came from Stavros and I cannot tell their tone apart. They sound very similar to me. I am using the black base now and it's a glorious rich tone. You only need to use one in the GOTL. How good is that.
> 
> Give up playing with tubes? That would be hard. Well maybe until the VoiceBox arrives next weekend. Now go and roll your tubes and show me your nice ECC3* collections.



Again, the black base pictured above, labeled as a Marconi B36, is actually an Italian Fivre 12SN7GT. Yes, it is a very nice tube but it is not a British-made Marconi B36.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Again, the black base pictured above, labeled as a Marconi B36, is actually an Italian Fivre 12SN7GT. Yes, it is a very nice tube but it is not a British-made Marconi B36.



That being the case, the Fivre 12SN7gt does sound very nice and I have 2.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> You must be very rich now because these Osram B65 have a asking price of US$3000.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/B65-6SN7GT-Osram-made-in-England-Tested-on-Amplitrex-1676006-31/192324893423?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=50963&meid=3a62566bc6494491a8aedfa74b8a9b8f&pid=100675&rk=3&rkt=15&sd=253414822447&itm=192324893423&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:377a0994-35fe-11e8-9eaa-74dbd180fbe2|parentrq:8361fedc1620a9c10e0ff348fff904f5|iid:1
> 
> These 3 B36 came from Stavros and I cannot tell their tone apart. They sound very similar to me. I am using the black base now and it's a glorious rich tone. You only need to use one in the GOTL. How good is that.
> ...


Surely those B65's won't sell for that price. Mine are also Orsam.

Most of my ECC3* tubes are on the ECC31/32/33/34/35 thread.

"You only need to use one in the GOTL. How good is that."
Ordered


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> "You only need to use one in the GOTL. How good is that."
> Ordered



What did you exactly ordered?


----------



## UntilThen

Did you order this blues amp?


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Here is the box for a Raytheon 12SN7 that an Ebay tube seller 'threw in' in an order for several 6BL7's - a couple of years ago.
> Had never heard it, but just tried it on the GOTL...and it sounded very good!
> Hi JV,
> 
> Is it possible that your International Raytheon 12SN7 was made in Japan by Hitachi? The date code is a two letter code, for example 4A = January 1964 (?).


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mordy - 

There are no markings at all on the tube that came in the Raytheon 12SN7GTA box.  No lettering or etchings on the glass, nothing printed on the base.  Tube looks brand new and plays great and it super quiet.  But don't know anything about it, just assume it _is_ a Raytheon 12SN7GTA as the box says...but....?


----------



## UntilThen

Happiness !

My c3g and 6 x 6BX7 are quiet again. So quiet it's pitch black quietness. How? Well I have 4 NOS Siemens c3g and 2 NOS Telefunken c3g/s. I pull out the 4 Siemens and lay them on the table and like a magician I move them around. Then selected 2 and put it into the OTL amp. Viola it's quiet.

I've laid off c3g and 6bx7 for a while but now hearing it again, it's just an incredibly appealing tone.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Good choice with that configuration. 6 x 6BX7 with a quiet combination is a very satisfying tone.
> 
> I've tried 4 x 6AS7 and 4 x 5998 but I find 2 x 6AS7 quieter and like most here, quiet is more important for me too. Both Cetron 6336b and Svetlana 6h13c sound very good on the OTL but my favourite is still Gec 6AS7G and Gec 6080. That is reserved for special occasions though. LCD-2f is quite easy to drive at 70 ohms. Even 2 x 6AS7 drives it well. However I might find 4 x 6as7 that is very quiet and I think I might prefer it. 4 does have a greater impact. That's why I've 4 Svetlana 6h13c on the way.
> 
> ...




I know what you mean...once you get rid of a headphone....that is when you go to reach for it and it is gone   
I have bought the a few times because of this...the HD650 also.


----------



## blackrain139

Tempted to get a 300B from Glenn. For those of you who has an Abyss Phi and the 300B, how is the pairing?

I don’t mind giving up a bit of slam for sweeter mids


----------



## Oskari

JazzVinyl said:


> Here is the box for a Raytheon 12SN7 that an Ebay tube seller 'threw in' in an order for several 6BL7's - a couple of years ago.
> Had never heard it, but just tried it on the GOTL...and it sounded very good!





mordy said:


> Is it possible that your International Raytheon 12SN7 was made in Japan by Hitachi? The date code is a two letter code, for example 4A = January 1964 (?).





JazzVinyl said:


> Mordy -
> There are no markings at all on the tube that came in the Raytheon 12SN7GTA box.  No lettering or etchings on the glass, nothing printed on the base.  Tube looks brand new and plays great and it super quiet.  But don't know anything about it, just assume it _is_ a Raytheon 12SN7GTA as the box says...but....?


_International_ is kind of a hint that the tube in the box probably wasn't made by Raytheon in Massachusetts.


----------



## gibosi

Towards the end of the vacuum tube era, Raytheon was one of the first US companies to begin to outsource production to Japan. Once in a while you will see tubes labeled "Hit-Ray", which were a result of a joint venture between Raytheon and Hitachi. That said, Ratheon may well have outsourced production to more than one Japanese manufacturer....


----------



## Oskari

There are sources that mention NEC.


----------



## 2359glenn

Just bought ten 1633s for $4 each cant beat that. Figured I buy a bunch before they get found out how good they are.
I give them away with the amps so need a bunch.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I think Whirlwind was on to something when he said 12SN7's are the 'bargain' tubes.  Have bought a few recently...all for cheap, all in pristine condition, are nice and quiet and sound great. 

Not quite the bargain of Glenn's 1633's but not far off.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I think Whirlwind was on to something when he said 12SN7's are the 'bargain' tubes.  Have bought a few recently...all for cheap, all in pristine condition, are nice and quiet and sound great.
> 
> Not quite the bargain of Glenn's 1633's but not far off.


Hi JV,
Checked my inventory - I have two 12SN7 tubes. One is a Teletone (RCA) and the second a Westinghouse. The date code on the Westinghouse is 5R13 - don't know what it means (March 1965?)
I also have three 12SL7 tubes culled from the eBay 99c stores - would these have too much gain to use in the GOTL?


----------



## gibosi

I don't know that I have ever seen a 6SN7 or a 12SN7 actually manufactured by Westinghouse. All that I have seen so far are rebrands and thus I suspect that Westinghouse never made this tube. But I can't be sure....


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I also have three 12SL7 tubes culled from the eBay 99c stores - would these have too much gain to use in the GOTL?



The general consensus is that SL7s have too much gain for the GOTL. That said, a number of folks have rolled them and report that they sound fine.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I tried a 12ax7 with 6AS7 in GOTL and it was fine...so suspect the 12SL7 will work with 6AS7 but might be too much for 6BL/BX7's.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I don't know that I have ever seen a 6SN7 or a 12SN7 actually manufactured by Westinghouse. All that I have seen so far are rebrands and thus I suspect that Westinghouse never made this tube. But I can't be sure....


Hi G,

My tube has the EIA number 337 which indicates Westinghouse. I remember reading (but can't find the source ATM) that Westinghouse was an early producer of vacuum tubes but had to make a deal to stop producing them for a number of years. Only after a long hiatus did they resume vacuum tube production towards the end of the tube era.
Oskari can most likely shed light on this.....


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> I don't know that I have ever seen a 6SN7 or a 12SN7 actually manufactured by Westinghouse. All that I have seen so far are rebrands and thus I suspect that Westinghouse never made this tube. But I can't be sure....





mordy said:


> Hi G,
> 
> My tube has the EIA number 337 which indicates Westinghouse. I remember reading (but can't find the source ATM) that Westinghouse was an early producer of vacuum tubes but had to make a deal to stop producing them for a number of years. Only after a long hiatus did they resume vacuum tube production towards the end of the tube era.
> Oskari can most likely shed light on this.....



Yep, they entered (again) late and exited fast.

A bit of google searching makes me think that perhaps they did make the type. On the other hand they had a nasty habit of putting their 337 on other makers' tubes.


----------



## mordy (Apr 3, 2018)

Oskari said:


> Yep, they entered (again) late and exited fast.
> 
> A bit of google searching makes me think that perhaps they did make the type. On the other hand they had a nasty habit of putting their 337 on other makers' tubes.


Hi Oskari,

Here is a link to a an interesting article about tube origins from Vivatubes:
http://www.vivatubes.com/identifying-vintage-nos-vacuum-tubes-by-brand-country-and-eia-code/

The author claims that the EIA number may be the best clue to US made tubes.
He makes another statement: 
_Many but not all European tubes will briefly flash a bright white light when they are switched on._
I cannot remember seeing it, but my eyesight isn't the best any more. (Except for the fireworks displayed by an Ei tube on start-up which scared the heck out of me. Turned out to be a pre-heat feature and normal...)


----------



## wazzupi

The power tubes kinda confuse me lol i cant seem to find them and does it matter which 6 I get bl/x7. Ps i notice alot with a GT at the end does that matter ?


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Hi Oskari,
> 
> Here is a link to a an interesting article about tube origins from Vivatubes:
> http://www.vivatubes.com/identifying-vintage-nos-vacuum-tubes-by-brand-country-and-eia-code/


Generally good stuff. What he calls European code is the Philips code.


mordy said:


> The author claims that the EIA number may be the best clue to US made tubes.


EIA is good. Military codes, if available, are more trustworthy.


mordy said:


> He makes another statement:
> _Many but not all European tubes will briefly flash a bright white light when they are switched on._
> I cannot remember seeing it, but my eyesight isn't the best any more. (Except for the fireworks displayed by an Ei tube on start-up which scared the heck out of me. Turned out to be a pre-heat feature and normal...)


That's it. Many Euro preamp tubes do it.


----------



## yates7592

As far as am aware there is not supposed to be a significant difference between different types of 6BL7 or 6BX7. The different types may well have their own 'house' sound as it were, e.g. RCA, Sylvania, GE etc. I have been buying some of both 6BL and 6BX over the past few months and try to buy 8 of the same maker so a few spares. Although its probably perfectly fine to use 4 of one type and 2 of another. Try to get matched NOS pairs or quads if possible. GT types are fine and may be preferable (?).


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> The power tubes kinda confuse me lol i cant seem to find them and does it matter which 6 I get bl/x7. Ps i notice alot with a GT at the end does that matter ?


Hi W,
It matters if a tube is a 6BL7 or a 6BX7. These tubes may be very similar, but they have different amplification factors, and it may effect where they can be used. Sometimes it makes no difference, and at other times one of them may not be suitable with a negative effect on the sound.
_To oversimplify_, think of light bulbs of different wattage. For mood lighting in a den you would want a less powerful light, and in a kitchen a more powerful brighter light.

The G and GT (and GTA, GTB) describe different characteristics of the tube:

"G" means a glass version of a metal octal tube, typically in a larger bulb with shoulders (ST or Shoulder Type).  A good example is 6AS7G.

"GT" means a glass tubular version of a metal octal tube (just straight tubular glass such as the 6BL7 and 6BX7 tubes.
"A," "B," and "C" suffixes mean some modification of an original type. Examples of such modifications are things like controlled heater warm-up time and increased plate dissipation. 
I do not know what you mean when you say that you cannot find them. I just typed in 6BX7 tube, and separately 6BL7 tube, in the the eBay searchbar, and got 125 and 393 listings.


----------



## yates7592

Yes, when I said 'type', am talking about either 6BX7 or 6BL7, not some of both mixed together.


----------



## wazzupi

I mean i find them mostly under the GT tag at the end and finding nos pairs is harder


----------



## Oskari

wazzupi said:


> I mean i find them mostly under the GT tag at the end and finding nos pairs is harder


6BX7GT, 6BL7GT, 6BL7GTA. Those are the common types.


----------



## UntilThen

All I can say is that I'm enjoying c3g and 6 x 6BX7gt very much. Such extended high notes, rich and sweet vocals and powerful and deep bass. It's an intoxicating tone across the whole FR.

Wazzupi, you can mix the tubes to a certain degree.

With the 6BX7, I'm using 2 x Fivre 6BX7gt and 4 x Tung Sol 6BX7gt. Additionally I have 6 x GE 6BX7gt.

With the 6BL7, I'm using 2 x Sylvania 6BL7gta and 4 x Sylvania 6BL7gt.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> All I can say is that I'm enjoying c3g and 6 x 6BX7gt very much. Such extended high notes, rich and sweet vocals and powerful and deep bass. It's an intoxicating tone across the whole FR.
> 
> Wazzupi, you can mix the tubes to a certain degree.
> 
> ...


Which c3gs are those ?


----------



## UntilThen

Siemens.


----------



## UntilThen

@rnros I won't be buying those Cetron 6528.

Seller quoted US $80 for shipping plus insurance.


----------



## Phantaminum (Apr 3, 2018)

I feel comfortable saying that I’m at the end of my tube driver and power tube accruing journey. I have one last set to buy and I’ll be ready for the GOTL.

My poor wallet needs a break.

@wazzupi Did you end up getting those Cetron 6336bs?

I’ll also keep an eye out for 6BX7s for you.


----------



## rnros (Apr 3, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> @rnros I won't be buying those Cetron 6528.
> 
> Seller quoted US $80 for shipping plus insurance.



That's insane. As I said, not really missing anything if you already have the CTN 6336B.

Glad to see that your C3gs are quiet now. For me, so far all is good with those.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> I feel comfortable saying that I’m at the end of my tube driver and power tube accruing journey. I have one last set to buy and I’ll be ready for the GOTL.
> 
> My poor wallet needs a break.
> 
> ...


Hi P,
Since I am also waiting and preparing, curious to know what tubes you plan to use?


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi P,
> Since I am also waiting and preparing, curious to know what tubes you plan to use?



Heya Mordi! 

Off the top of my head.

Drivers:
-C3G (main driver)
-Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
-Sylvania 12sn7 black base 
-Sylvania 14n7
-Ken Rad 6C8G
-Few 6922s/2c51
-Fivre 12sn7 brown base
-Melz Russian tubes
-Ribbed Russians

Power tubes:
-TS 5998
-Chatham 6as7
-Cetron 6336b
-GE 6BX7s 
-Svetlana Power tubes

I’m sure I left a few out. Let me know if you need a contact for the Cetron tubes.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Heya Mordi!
> 
> Off the top of my head.
> 
> ...


Wow! Looks like you’ll be busy for a few months!
I have the power tubes you listed (including 7 Cetrons and 1 Raytheon 6336B) + some more. One of the unsung heroes is the RCA 6AS7G - did anyone try them in the GOTL?
Re the driver tubes I don’t have so many.
Curious how the Japanese 6SN7 are going to sound....


----------



## JazzVinyl

A "National' 12SN7 - sounds great, Pipe Organ / Rapturous bass with the 6 pack of 6BL7's...

The 'National' 12SN7 was less than $10.00 shipped.

Love this amp!


----------



## gibosi

National was a "box swapper", that is, they didn't make anything, but simply slapped their label on tubes purchased elsewhere. From the picture, it's not immediately apparent to me who actually manufactured this tube, but it's good to know it sounds great.


----------



## JazzVinyl

A number of my re-brands sound very nice.  It does appear that 12SN7's have seen far less duty, their 6 volt cousins.


----------



## wazzupi

I'm currently looking


Phantaminum said:


> I feel comfortable saying that I’m at the end of my tube driver and power tube accruing journey. I have one last set to buy and I’ll be ready for the GOTL.
> 
> My poor wallet needs a break.
> 
> ...


I did not at least not yet xD thx for looking out.

I think with my next two paychecks ill be buying the rest of my tubes.


----------



## gibosi (Apr 4, 2018)

In addition to the Russian 1578 and 1579, another tube in the 1500 series, the 1539, is also suitable for use in audio circuits. I haven't been able to find out much about this tube, other than it is said to be similar to the 6N1P and 6N5P. While these do not have Western counterparts, the 6N1P and 6N5P are often suggested as a replacement for a 6DJ8 / ECC88, albeit with a 600ma heater, almost twice that of the 6DJ8. and thus they cannot be considered direct plug-in replacements in all circuits. The 6N1P has an amplification factor of 35, the 6N5P, 27 and the 6DJ8, 33, and I assume that the 1539 is also in this range.



The early to mid 1960's construction is virtually identical for these three tubes, with flat black plates, three to four mica spacers and a silver shield.



Haven't had a chance to plug it in yet. But I can say that several years ago, a number of us tried the 6N1P and 6N5P and found the midrange to be somewhat harsh. To my ears, vocals sounded a bit raspy. So I am curious to see if the 1539 sounds better.

I should also note that these are a bit rare, but not expensive. However, I have seen some eBay vendors selling 6N5P as the same as 1539. But again, the 1539 is thought to be somewhat different.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Very nice, Ken. If they prove to be a good sonic competitor for ECC88, will be a great find, indeed.


----------



## UntilThen

So I have been away for a few days and for a good reason. The Axis Voicebox S monitors arrived and for the first time, I heard speakers sounding with equal superb midrange eloquence and spatial communicative top end as my great sounding head-fi system of Yggdrasil - Glenn's OTL amp - HD800. Except these speakers fills the size of my living room and plays to an astonishing loud level with such realism. Musical enjoyment has taken on a whole new world.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> So I have been away for a few days and for a good reason. The Axis Voicebox S monitors arrived and for the first time, I heard speakers sounding with equal superb midrange eloquence and spatial communicative top end as my great sounding head-fi system of Yggdrasil - Glenn's OTL amp - HD800. Except these speakers fills the size of my living room and plays to an astonishing loud level with such realism. Musical enjoyment has taken on a whole new world.


So what you're saying is.... Buy em ! Im actually quite interested but ive never owned any real speakers haha. Does it require a particular amp or anything ?


----------



## lukeap69

Time for a coffee break...


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 7, 2018)

Arnold....you are not messing around with a "cup of joe"

Very nice!

Woke up to snow on the ground this morning, seems spring will never get here.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Arnold....you are not messing around with a "cup of joe"
> 
> Very nice!
> 
> Woke up to snow on the ground this morning, seems spring will never get here.



Raining here supposed to change to snow this afternoon. What did I move south for could have got this in upstate New York.


----------



## 2359glenn

Did get the ten 1633s was hoping to get some Ken-Rad but they are all RCAs. Still a dam good tube the RCA grey glass 1940s SN7 type.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Did get the ten 1633s was hoping to get some Ken-Rad but they are all RCAs. Still a dam good tube the RCA grey glass 1940s SN7 type.



Yes they sure are...I like the Ken Rads better, but those 1940's RCA grey glass are real nice.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> Did get the ten 1633s was hoping to get some Ken-Rad but they are all RCAs. Still a dam good tube the RCA grey glass 1940s SN7 type.



Did you order it from Stan?


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> Did you order it from Stan?



Yes 1633 $4 each plus shipping.
Hard to get a tube this good for $4 great deal.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> Yes 1633 $4 each plus shipping.
> Hard to get a tube this good for $4 great deal.



nice tubes
Did you manage to get brimar 13d1 as well?


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have had a few quiet evenings to evaluate my favorite drivers....

And I have to award the crown to......drum roll.....

Sylvania 6SN7W

Lots of tubes sound great, but the 6SN7W makes magic of the sound stage.  There is more distance between instruments, and the placement of instruments is very precise.  Everybody lives in thier own space, introduction of more instruments come in and do not crowd out or interfere with those already in the mix. Soundstage is larger and extends east, west, north and south.

Massively impressive tube in an equally impressive amp.

6SN7W / 6x 6BX7....

I can listen, fatigue free, for hours.

Thank you Glenn, for my amp!

I love it!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> nice tubes
> Did you manage to get brimar 13d1 as well?



No have them on back order with a different vender.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> I have had a few quiet evenings to evaluate my favorite drivers....
> 
> And I have to award the crown to......drum roll.....
> 
> ...



Your welcome JV

What a crappy day perfect for building amps.  Working on @Sound Infinity EL3N amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Were having a frosty morning!


----------



## gibosi (Apr 9, 2018)

A small update regarding the 1539... It sounds great. 

While at first glance, the 1539 appears to be identical to the 6N5P, upon closer inspection, the 1539 has quite a bit more copper below the bottom mica spacer and there are a couple other small construction differences. That said, the 6N5P was manufactured in 1963 and the 1539 in 1960, so it is certainly possible that these differences could be the result of different manufacturing dates.



However, unlike the 6N5P, the 1539 resembles tubes manufactured using Philips equipment. Due to reflections, it is hard to photograph, but four glass seams can be seen which typically indicate Philips manufacture.

Edit: So it would seem that by 1960 NEVZ had acquired Philips equipment? Or perhaps simply tried to copy it? Either way, I don't think I have ever seen a Russian-made tube with four glass seams like this one. Has anyone else? @Oskari?


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> I have had a few quiet evenings to evaluate my favorite drivers....
> 
> And I have to award the crown to......drum roll.....
> 
> ...



Mine is a moving crown. Depends on the days. There's a new king every week. This week it's Lafayette masquerading as Tung Sol 6F8G with GEC 6080. This is a flat plate but it sounds as good as the pair of Tung Sol 6F8G round plates that I have.

I was enjoying HD800 so much with this setup until I tried on LCD-2f. The low and deep planar magnetic bass is really good on the OTL amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Pick up a new copy of DSOTM on 180gm vinyl and wow. 


 

Then I saw Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds Limited 40th Anniversary Version. Now I have to go back and get it.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Mine is a moving crown. Depends on the days. There's a new king every week. This week it's Lafayette masquerading as Tung Sol 6F8G with GEC 6080. This is a flat plate but it sounds as good as the pair of Tung Sol 6F8G round plates that I have.
> 
> I was enjoying HD800 so much with this setup until I tried on LCD-2f. The low and deep planar magnetic bass is really good on the OTL amp.



Nice


----------



## UntilThen

40th anniversary edition by Sony Music. Vinyl sounds so much better. Much better than the CD version I have.


----------



## mordy

Just saw that my Elac Debut B6 speakers went on sale again for $200/pair:


Following select merchants have a price drop on ELAC Debut B6 2-Way Bookshelf Speakers (Pair). Purchase it from your favorite merchant:


Amazon.com: $199.98 + Free Shipping
Walmart.com: $199.98 + Free Shipping
World Wide Stereo: $199.98 + Free Shipping
Sears.com: $199.98 + Free Shipping
Newegg.com: $199.98 + Free Shipping
Rakuten.com: $199.98 + Free Shipping
Crutchfield.com: $199.99 + Free Shipping
Highly recommended - there is a Stereophile review by Herb Reichert where they compare very well to the KEF LS50 at 1/7 of the price.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/elac-debut-b6-loudspeaker


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sounds good Mordy - great deal. That speaker designer, Andrew Jones.  Has a well deserved reputation for quality sound. 

I personally still love my DIY three way’s with dual 10’s dome mids and vifa tweeters.  A big part of the build cost was for top flight crossover components,  I think that iis where you get your biggest bang....the crossover design and implementation. 

Built mine in 2006...has 12 years really flown by?  Mine are powered by a 250 watts per channel Hafler amp w/musical fidelity mods...

Acoustic Suspension enclosure, bass that shakes the house 

I love it!!


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
You have my admiration - building your own speakers! The closest thing I've come to building something was as an eleven year old building a crystal radio from a kit......


----------



## UntilThen

This tube combination of Tung Sol 6F8G and GEC 6080 is so good, it deserves another photo. This combination is so quiet. I can turn the volume to the max with no music playing and there is dead silence. Incredible. And the tone is incredible too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> You have my admiration - building your own speakers! The closest thing I've come to building something was as an eleven year old building a crystal radio from a kit......



Hello Mordy...

I did follow plans published on the net.  The design goal was to emulate the sound of near TOTL Infinity RS speakers of that time, at a fraction of the cost.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> 40th anniversary edition by Sony Music. Vinyl sounds so much better. Much better than the CD version I have.



This reminds me of Sly and Family Stone....LP called "There's a riot goin' on"....the LP is warm and lush and addictive.  The CD is so bad it's unreal.

Same with Eric Clapton's "461 Ocean Blvd" the LP is somewhat sketchy, but the orig CD was just a hiss factory. They re-released the CD three more times...only the last one was worth buying.


----------



## UntilThen

What's different between this photo and my last photo of GOTL? 

Well I had a change of power tubes. From GEC 6080 to Mullard 6080. Let me tell you this. I have never heard Mullard 6080 sounded so good before. Aided by Tung Sol 6F8G which btw is the equivalent or better than Tung Sol 6sn7gt bgrp. This is the tone that gets us hooked on tubes. Tube warm, lushness, rich and riveting vocals and glorious mid bass thump. I need my daily fix of listening to music with this wonderful sounding tube amp. It's totally transformed HD800.

So if you can't find GEC 6080 anymore, not to worry. Get yourself a pair of Mullard 6080.


----------



## 2359glenn

I use #27 tubes driving Svetlana 6H13 like @gibosi But I don't use adapters the amp is made with 2.5 volt power for the #27s
and has 5 pin sockets.
I personally think the #26 and #27 are two of the best sounding preamp/driver tubes made. Use the #26 in my preamp.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> What's different between this photo and my last photo of GOTL?
> 
> Well I had a change of power tubes. From GEC 6080 to Mullard 6080. Let me tell you this. I have never heard Mullard 6080 sounded so good before. Aided by Tung Sol 6F8G which btw is the equivalent or better than Tung Sol 6sn7gt bgrp. This is the tone that gets us hooked on tubes. Tube warm, lushness, rich and riveting vocals and glorious mid bass thump. I need my daily fix of listening to music with this wonderful sounding tube amp. It's totally transformed HD800.
> 
> So if you can't find GEC 6080 anymore, not to worry. Get yourself a pair of Mullard 6080.


Mullard 6080 or Cetron6336B ? Ill have 6f8g c3g Russian ribbed tubes and Sylvania 6SN7W metal base


----------



## gibosi

wazzupi said:


> Mullard 6080 or Cetron6336B ? Ill have 6f8g c3g Russian ribbed tubes and Sylvania 6SN7W metal base



We all have different ears and different gear. And I suspect that you will prefer the Mullard 6080 with certain drivers and the Cetron6336B with others. So the only correct answer is both.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I use #27 tubes driving Svetlana 6H13 like @gibosi But I don't use adapters the amp is made with 2.5 volt power for the #27s
> and has 5 pin sockets.
> I personally think the #26 and #27 are two of the best sounding preamp/driver tubes made. Use the #26 in my preamp.



And since the #26 is essentially an AC version of the UX-201A, first introduced in 1925, these might be pretty good too.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Mullard 6080 or Cetron6336B ? Ill have 6f8g c3g Russian ribbed tubes and Sylvania 6SN7W metal base



They are both good sounding power tubes. I'm just re-visiting the Mullard 6080 which I haven't use for a while. Bought these used from someone in Australia for AUD $70 a pair about 2 years ago and even though it's not NOS, it's ultra quiet like the GEC 6080.

Whilst I like the Cetron 6336b, they are very hot tubes. For extended listening with these, I direct a fan over the OTL amp. I like to keep it cool.

Looks like you're well covered with the drivers. They are all very good drivers. It really depends on individuals on how much tubes they want to have. Jason who owns the super uber GOTL only ever mention using Sylvania 6SN7w metal base with 6 x 6BL7gt and it's clear he likes the GOTL with HD800.

With the tubes you have, you will really like how the GOTL sounds.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I use #27 tubes driving Svetlana 6H13 like @gibosi But I don't use adapters the amp is made with 2.5 volt power for the #27s
> and has 5 pin sockets.
> I personally think the #26 and #27 are two of the best sounding preamp/driver tubes made. Use the #26 in my preamp.



You did offer to have 2.5 volts added to my amp but I said no because I'm afraid with too many choices, I will be driven over the edge.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> You did offer to have 2.5 volts added to my amp but I said no because I'm afraid with too many choices, I will be driven over the edge.



Ha!  Enough choices that it will drive you crazy  

You have to admit though, that is one cool option!


----------



## mordy

Hi 2359glenn,
The option of #26 or #27 tubes is new to me. A quick look on eBay shows more 27s availble than 26s, and at lesser prices.
Is one type preferable over the other?
Is see that the 26 is 4 pin, 1.5V and 1.05A, and the 27 is 5 pin, 2.5V and 1.75A.
Are there any brands that sound better than others? Years?
Do you need a pair of them?
Are these the ones that gibosi is sifting through to get a quiet pair?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I cannot find a pair of 46 I like so I guess that whole thing is on the shelf for now.

Re-rolling all of the 45s did reveal that my noise problems are actually coming from one of the C3g, which I didn't think to suspect given their reputation.  It also revealed that I find literally every single 45 ST tube I own to be boring and missing that special something after spending nearly two years listening exclusively to the Ken Rad globe UX-245s.

Only place to go from here is EML I suppose.  I just wish I could know for sure that it will be safe for the tubes before spending $700.


----------



## Xcalibur255

@mordy 
The common feeling on the 26 and 27 is that it's a pain in the butt to find ones that aren't noisy.  Apparently the 26 is pretty fussy in terms of power supply design too.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> @mordy
> The common feeling on the 26 and 27 is that it's a pain in the butt to find ones that aren't noisy.  Apparently the 26 is pretty fussy in terms of power supply design too.


Thanks


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> And since the #26 is essentially an AC version of the UX-201A, first introduced in 1925, these might be pretty good too.



The 201A is a very good tube but it has a thinner filament making it much more microphonic and noisy


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Are there any brands that sound better than others? Years?
> Do you need a pair of them?
> Are these the ones that gibosi is sifting through to get a quiet pair?



I am rolling 27's. While the 27's are indirectly heated, the 26's are directly heated, and therefore, it is not possible to roll them in the OTL with just a simple adapter and external heater. But of course, in an amp designed to run them, they would be plug and play.

And yes, a pair of these single triodes is necessary, one for each channel. I quite like the Westinghouse 27s. But I find that it is hard to separate SQ from quiet. The Westinghouse 27's are the quietest I have found. But perhaps if other brands were just as quiet, I might prefer another brand....

So yes, I have certainly found it to be difficult to find quiet 27s. That said, the OTL was not designed to run 27's. And I suspect that some tubes that I find to be too noisy might be fairly quiet in a Glenn "27" OTL.

Years? My experience is with production from the late 1920's and into the early 1930's. By the mid 1930's, mesh plates had been phased out and replaced by sheet metal plates. And also by the mid 1930's the globe bottle had been replaced with the ST bottle. The later tubes may in fact sound great, I just don't know... I have confined myself solely to mesh-globes.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Apr 12, 2018)

Harman Kardon (Amperex} 12AU7 doing the honors for Stanley Clarke's "If This Bass Could Talk" album...

...Goodbye, Pork Pie Hat...


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Harman Kardon (Amperex} 12AU7



I'm quite interested in trying these 12au7. How would you characterise the tone? Bright or romantic? Sizzling or laid back?


----------



## JazzVinyl (Apr 12, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I'm quite interested in trying these 12au7. How would you characterise the tone? Bright or romantic? Sizzling or laid back?



They are super quiet, so no problems with popping or springy sounds.

They sound full and are a bit of both.  Full solid bass, and lively mids and well controlled high end.  The Amperex has a bit more growl in the bass than some of the Sylvania (again, gibosi's 'house sound' at play).  Lower gain, so play well with 6BL/BX7...

I do find that all drivers in the GOTL appreciate 30 mins in, before they really reveal what they can do. 

Some 12AU7's are priced too high.  Be like Mordy...be patient and wait for some good prices.


----------



## UntilThen

Greetings @DecentLevi . It's been a long time since we last spoke. I saw your questions on Euforia thread but I wouldn't want to derail that thread by answering in it.

Yes, Glenn is still actively making amps for many, many satisfied customers. In fact the queue is quite long now. 

As for how I felt about the Glenn OTL, I have enjoyed it every night since I got it 4 months ago. Yes exactly 4 months ago. I got it on the 12th of Dec 2017. Before Christmas !!! Best Christmas present ever.

Anyway, if you miss my mini review of the GOTL, here it is in comparison with the Woo Audio WA5LE.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1234#post-14048313


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Some 12AU7's are priced too high. Be like Mordy...be patient and wait for some good prices.



Thanks for the reply but patience is not my virtue. If I did go in on a 12au7, it would be either a Telefunken or a Mullard.


----------



## UntilThen (Apr 12, 2018)

Alright I have decided to go with good old Mullard and this M8136 is a special quality version of ECC82.
http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0263.htm

Now to order the adapter from Mrs Xuling..... slow boat from China. By the time it gets here, WW3 might have started.

And the seller's pitch for a faster sale...

"The NOS Mullard CV4003 (M8136) tube is a British military grade ECC82 / 12AU7 tube type.  This 12AU7 tube has box plates which seem to improve resistance to microphonics and noise.  They were produced in Mullard's Mitcham factory.


The Mullard CV4003/M8136 tube has a deep and expansive soundstage, with overall fantastic definition.  The lows are defined while the mids and highs are liquid smooth, just leaning to the warm side of neutral."


----------



## leftside

The great thing about the GOTL is that you only need to buy ONE of these tubes. Brent Jesse has loads of info on the 12AU7's:
http://www.audiotubes.com/12au7.htm

I really like the Telefunken 12AU7's that I run in my Euforia DAC. A local Canadian dealer had some NOS/NIB that I purchased a while back. I am going to try the Mullards at some point as well though.


----------



## gibosi

Another take on the 12AU7:

https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#12AU7

And it seems that "Joe" much prefers the 6DJ8, 6922 and 7308.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Alright I have decided to go with good old Mullard and this M8136 is a special quality version of ECC82.
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0263.htm
> 
> Now to order the adapter from Mrs Xuling..... slow boat from China. By the time it gets here, WW3 might have started.
> ...



Don't forget the 7316, one of my favorite.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> However, unlike the 6N5P, the 1539 resembles tubes manufactured using Philips equipment. Due to reflections, it is hard to photograph, but four glass seams can be seen which typically indicate Philips manufacture.
> 
> Edit: So it would seem that by 1960 NEVZ had acquired Philips equipment? Or perhaps simply tried to copy it? Either way, I don't think I have ever seen a Russian-made tube with four glass seams like this one. Has anyone else? @Oskari?


No, I don't think I have. On the other hand, those don't look quite like the typical Philips seams.


----------



## gibosi

Oskari said:


> No, I don't think I have. On the other hand, those don't look quite like the typical Philips seams.



I would agree. They don't look quite the same as typical Philips seams. So another mystery... how? and why? lol


----------



## Oskari

JazzVinyl said:


> Harman Kardon (Amperex} 12AU7 doing the honors for Stanley Clarke's "If This Bass Could Talk" album...


Philips, Heerlen? Or something else?


----------



## wazzupi (Apr 12, 2018)

You guys are making a new rabbit hole already ?


----------



## Phantaminum (Apr 12, 2018)

wazzupi said:


> You guys are making a new rabbit hole already



Take the red pill with me. We'll never get out, lol.

I've purchased a Dremel to help me clean the pins on these tubes. Most of them have mild cases of oxidation with the rest looking ok. I now have my weekend project down.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Take the red pill with me. We'll never get out, lol.
> 
> I've purchased a Dremel to help me clean the pins on these tubes. Most of them have mild cases of oxidation with the rest looking ok. I now have my weekend project down.


Here is a picture of my erzats Dremel tool to clean tube pins (I actually own a Dremel tool as well, but this tool is more in line with earlier technology lol):


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Here is a picture of my erzats Dremel tool to clean tube pins (I actually own a Dremel tool as well, but this tool is more in line with earlier technology lol):



Ah! I see you use a tool of finesse. 

I'm a bit of a brute and would of ended using the nail file in the Swiss army knife kit instead.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Ah! I see you use a tool of finesse.
> 
> I'm a bit of a brute and would of ended using the nail file in the Swiss army knife kit instead.


Hi P,
I'm afraid that the nail file isn't as suitable on this little pen knife because the blade is too wide to fit easily between the pins, and the edge is too blunt. The sides of the pins cannot be reached easily by the nail filing area on the blade.
I am really quite serious about scraping the pins gently with a somewhat dull blade. I got the idea from reading a scholarly paper from 1945 about the best methods for cleaning off corrosion from tube pins. The conclusion was that metal to metal contact was better than chemical means.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Another take on the 12AU7:
> 
> https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#12AU7
> 
> And it seems that "Joe" much prefers the 6DJ8, 6922 and 7308.



I prefer the larger 8 pin tubes over the 9 pin I think they sound better but maybe nosier.
But all my amplification is done with old #26 , #27 , and #10 globe driver for my 300Bs.
The older tubes sound best don't know why they were  used in static filled AM radios with a 5KHz band with.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> You guys are making a new rabbit hole already ?



I thought it's a small hole because these are small tubes but by George, there are so many rabbits !

Anyhoo this is what Kevin says about the Mullards CV4003.

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock


----------



## JazzVinyl

Oskari said:


> Philips, Heerlen? Or something else?



Amperex?


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Another take on the 12AU7:
> 
> https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#12AU7
> 
> And it seems that "Joe" much prefers the 6DJ8, 6922 and 7308.



Yes, I know "Joe" is not impressed.  But in what amp?


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 12, 2018)

The MadEar+HD amp that I owned used 12AX7 tubes

I settled on a 5751 sylvania triple mica black plate....was a great sounding tube in that amp, less gain than 12AX7 I believe.

Not sure the cost of one now...was fairly pricey back then....I bought from Brent Jesse


----------



## 2359glenn

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Tu...839822&hash=item5d7c659f36:g:0KQAAOSwrklVVOD9


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> The MadEar+HD amp that I owned used 12AX7 tubes
> 
> I settled on a 5751 sylvania triple mica black plate....was a great sounding tube in that amp, less gain than 12AX7 I believe.
> 
> Not sure the cost of one now...was fairly pricey back then....I bought from Brent Jesse



I used a Sylvania 5751 triple black back when I had the Icon HP8.  Then I tried the new production Genalex Gold Lion ECC83.  The Genalex wiped the floor with the old Sylvania.  Some of these new production tubes are truly making NOS unecessary now.  I'm not sure why nobody has managed to nail it with a new 6SN7 yet.


----------



## Oskari

JazzVinyl said:


> Amperex?


Dutch-made Amperex = Philips. Find the code on it and we'll see.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Don't forget the 7316, one of my favorite.



You have expensive taste. I will try a ECC83 or its 12ax7 equivalent first.


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> I used a Sylvania 5751 triple black back when I had the Icon HP8.  Then I tried the new production Genalex Gold Lion ECC83.  The Genalex wiped the floor with the old Sylvania.  Some of these new production tubes are truly making NOS unecessary now.  I'm not sure why nobody has managed to nail it with a new 6SN7 yet.



I owned one of these Gold Lion gold pin new tubes also, matter of fact i had a few of them because the bang for the buck was real nice.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi P,
> I'm afraid that the nail file isn't as suitable on this little pen knife because the blade is too wide to fit easily between the pins, and the edge is too blunt. The sides of the pins cannot be reached easily by the nail filing area on the blade.
> I am really quite serious about scraping the pins gently with a somewhat dull blade. I got the idea from reading a scholarly paper from 1945 about the best methods for cleaning off corrosion from tube pins. The conclusion was that metal to metal contact was better than chemical means.



This is a good idea. I'll try this with some of the tubes that don't need too much cleaning and try it with a dull blade. Thanks for the idea!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Oskari said:


> Dutch-made Amperex = Philips. Find the code on it and we'll see.



Says:
12AU7/ECC82
Harman Kardon by Amperex 
Made in Holland
2/27


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> I used a Sylvania 5751 triple black back when I had the Icon HP8.  Then I tried the new production Genalex Gold Lion ECC83.  The Genalex wiped the floor with the old Sylvania.  Some of these new production tubes are truly making NOS unecessary now.  I'm not sure why nobody has managed to nail it with a new 6SN7 yet.


Gold Lions are pretty good. I use them extensively in my Mac gear.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Says:
> 12AU7/ECC82
> Harman Kardon by Amperex
> Made in Holland
> 2/27



We need to know the Philips production code which indicates the factory and date of manufacture. "Amperex" was a brand used by Philips to sell tubes in the US. And an "Amperex" tube could have been manufactured in any of their many factories.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, I know "Joe" is not impressed.  But in what amp?



Oh, I am not taking sides here... But submit that Joe's site is a good read.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Oh, I am not taking sides here... But submit that Joe's site is a good read.



Agree, I enjoyed the read too


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> We need to know the Philips production code which indicates the factory and date of manufacture. "Amperex" was a brand used by Philips to sell tubes in the US. And an "Amperex" tube could have been manufactured in any of their many factories.



Yes, saw all the codes on Brent's site, but don't see them. Will look closer later this evening.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, saw all the codes on Brent's site, but don't see them. Will look closer later this evening.



If you haven't seen this, it might be helpful:

http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> You have expensive taste. I will try a ECC83 or its 12ax7 equivalent first.


CV 491, TS smoke 12au7??


----------



## JazzVinyl (Apr 12, 2018)

gibosi said:


> If you haven't seen this, it might be helpful:
> 
> http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf



Aha....with an 8x loop...I do see on the bottle side:
G (second letter rubbed off)
Symbol for Phillips Heerlen, 2C3


----------



## leftside

Through a friend who knows people who work in the headfi industry I've been trying out a lot of gear this year. Today I was given the chance to listen to and potentially buy a pair of basically new LCD4s that have only been demoed/shown at a few shows. I did indeed end up buying them (for much cheaper than used ones sell for on here). These are now my all time favorite headphones, but I'm not going to say they "kill" the LCD3s. Far from it. The LCD4s are simply a better LCD3, with a greater "wall of sound" and everything else seems to be about 10% better. One could argue used LCD3s are much better value. 

I totally appreciate we all have different tastes, but my "best value" headfi system is the following:
- LCD3
- Lampizator Euforia DSD
- Glenn GOTL or EL3N. This is based upon the many reviews on here, and what you guys have compared to what you've previously owned. I also have a GOTL on order. The temptation to be able to use 6 6BL7's with only one driver tube such as the B36 was too much for me...


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 13, 2018)

leftside said:


> Through a friend who knows people who work in the headfi industry I've been trying out a lot of gear this year. Today I was given the chance to listen to and potentially buy a pair of basically new LCD4s that have only been demoed/shown at a few shows. I did indeed end up buying them (for much cheaper than used ones sell for on here). These are now my all time favorite headphones, but I'm not going to say they "kill" the LCD3s. Far from it. The LCD4s are simply a better LCD3, with a greater "wall of sound" and everything else seems to be about 10% better. One could argue used LCD3s are much better value.
> 
> I totally appreciate we all have different tastes, but my "best value" headfi system is the following:
> - LCD3
> ...




Very nice...those look like cocobolo ?
I am in line for a GOTL also and I believe the line to be getting a bit long.

gibosi has sent me some Tung Sol 6BX7 to listen too and they sound quite good, from what time I have had to listen to them.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Glenn GOTL or EL3N. This is based upon the many reviews on here, and what you guys have compared to what you've previously owned. I also have a GOTL on order. The temptation to be able to use 6 6BL7's with only one driver tube such as the B36 was too much for me...



Several years from now, Glenn Super 9, 10 or 11 OTL amp will be an iconic classic and I'm glad you're getting one. The lure of tube rolling aside, it's the signature sound of this amp that is captivating. Dynamics, transients, superb imaging, it's all there. So good is the tone, I've finally sold off my Ragnarok.

Even LCD-2f sounds great with the GOTL with 6336 tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

This sure looks like mikey mouse and a pair of elephants. 

However the Voskhod 6N23P russian driver with 6336 power tubes proves that you can get great tone on a shoe string budget. Adapter is ECC88 to 6SN7 adapter. 6N23p bass is a knock out. It's unbelievable that such a small tube can churn out such bass. This combination is ultra quiet on the GOTL.

Now I have to look for another 6922 tube since I already have the adapter. Perhaps the Genalex Gold Lion ECC88 6922 tube as suggested by @Xcalibur255 ... 
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENALEX...336817?hash=item441a60f0b1:g:BGgAAOSwW3Vaud~Y


----------



## Oskari

JazzVinyl said:


> Aha....with an 8x loop...I do see on the bottle side:
> G (second letter rubbed off)
> Symbol for Phillips Heerlen, 2C3


OK. This must be a 1962 or 1972 tube. That's _Gf_. _Gf9_ would indicate 1972. _Gf-something-less-than-9_ would indicate 1962. A dimpled disc getter would make this a 1972 tube as well.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Very nice...those look like cocobolo ?
> I am in line for a GOTL also and I believe the line to be getting a bit long.
> 
> gibosi has sent me some Tung Sol 6BX7 to listen too and they sound quite good, from what time I have had to listen to them.


I really don't know in regard to the wood being cocobolo. I just took what they had without giving the wood too much thought.

Yes, the line for the GOTL is getting longer.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Yes, the line for the GOTL is getting longer



Perhaps Glenn can tell me exactly how long? My brother just received his Auteurs last night and is already asking whether or not to get in line for his own GOTL.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Perhaps Glenn can tell me exactly how long? My brother just received his Auteurs last night and is already asking whether or not to get in line for his own GOTL.



Your next in line as soon as I finish the EL3N amp I am building now. Hopefully I will have it finished this weekend.
A amp for your brother would be mid June before I can build a amp for him.

Glenn


----------



## JazzVinyl

Oskari said:


> OK. This must be a 1962 or 1972 tube. That's _Gf_. _Gf9_ would indicate 1972. _Gf-something-less-than-9_ would indicate 1962. A dimpled disc getter would make this a 1972 tube as well.



Looks like a regular halo getter....so let's make it a specimen of the 1962 run.

Thanks, Oskari...


----------



## Oskari

JazzVinyl said:


> Looks like a regular halo getter....so let's make it a specimen of the 1962 run.
> 
> Thanks, Oskari...


That seems plausible.


----------



## attmci

Oskari said:


> That seems plausible.


I agree. I have tons of these kind of 12au7s.


----------



## leftside (Apr 13, 2018)

Is there a list somewhere of all the different tubes the GOTL takes? I see there are 9 tube sockets. The 1 at the front is for the driver (6SN7, 12SN7?), 6 for power (6BL7?), 2 for different power (5998?) Also 2 solid state rectifiers? Thanks.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Is there a list somewhere of all the different tubes the GOTL takes? I see there are 9 tube sockets. The 1 at the front is for the driver (6SN7, 12SN7?), 6 for power (6BL7?), 2 for different power (5998?) Also 2 solid state rectifiers? Thanks.



+1


----------



## attmci

This is the best 12au7/ecc82 if you can afford.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LORENZ-ECC...-GTR-SIX-TUBES-ULTRA-ULTRA-RARE-/132569918419


----------



## UntilThen (Apr 13, 2018)

There are 9 sockets if you opt for solid state rectifiers. 10 if you choose tube rectifiers.

For the GOTL with 9 sockets (refer to the picture below), the sockets are for:-

1st socket
. 6sn7 / 12sn7 / 25sn7

Next 2 sockets
. c3g

Next 6 sockets are for power tubes:-
. 2 or 4 or 6 6BL7 / 6BX7
. 2 or 4 6as7 / 6h13c / 5998 / 7236
. 2 6336


----------



## UntilThen

6sn7 and all it's variants can be used including (set switch to 6.3 volts)

. 12au7, 12ax7 using 12au7 / 12ax7 to 6sn7 adapter.
. 6DJ8, ECC88, 6922, E88CC, 7308, 6N23p using ECC88 to 6SN7 adapter
. 7N7 using 7N7 to 6SN7 adapter
. 6F8G using 6F8G to 6SN7 adapter
. 6CG7 using 6CG7 to 6SN7 adapter
. ECC31, 6N7G using ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter

12sn7 and variants (set switch to 12.6 volts)
. 12sn7
. B36
. FDD20 using FDD20 to 6SN7 adapter

25sn7 and variants (set switch to 25.2 volts)
. 1633
. 13D1

I haven't covered everything. Please feel free to add on.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> There are 9 sockets if you opt for solid state rectifiers. 10 if you choose tube rectifiers.
> 
> For the GOTL with 9 sockets (refer to the picture below), the sockets are for:-
> 
> ...


Nice. Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> This is the best 12au7/ecc82 if you can afford.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LORENZ-ECC...-GTR-SIX-TUBES-ULTRA-ULTRA-RARE-/132569918419




That's el cheapo. 

I'm starting to feel that 6DJ8, ECC88, 6922, E88CC, 7308 family of tubes might be better but that is forming an opinion before I have even heard the 12au7. So I'll await the arrival of the Mullard 12au7.

However right now, I'm really enjoying Voskhod 6N23p with Cetron 6336. Incredible tone.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> That's el cheapo.
> 
> I'm starting to feel that 6DJ8, ECC88, 6922, E88CC, 7308 family of tubes might be better but that is forming an opinion before I have even heard the 12au7. So I'll await the arrival of the Mullard 12au7.
> 
> However right now, I'm really enjoying Voskhod 6N23p with Cetron 6336. Incredible tone.



CV4003 is a fine tube. The Lorenz welded is a much better tube. I agree it is just the best 12au7, and there are so many other nice driver tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

I have already bought the Genalex Gold Lion ECC88 6922.

Will be getting an Amperex 6922 later. These small tubes starting to appeal.


----------



## mordy (Apr 14, 2018)

attmci said:


> CV4003 is a fine tube. The Lorenz welded is a much better tube. I agree it is just the best 12au7, and there are so many other nice driver tubes.


Hi attmci,

What do you recommend in the 12AU7 family that sounds good and is inexpensive?
This is what I have (but I don't have the amp yet to listen to them):
Sylvania: 12AU7, 12AT7,12AZ7, 12AX7A, 12BH7A
Matsushita: 12AX7A - I see that this fine Japanese name is still censored LOL - Matsushiiiita
Sovtek: 12AX7WA/7025
Anything here that has potential?


----------



## attmci (Apr 15, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> 
> What do you recommend in the 12AU7 family that sounds good and is inexpensive?
> This is what I have (but I don't have the amp yet to listen to them):
> ...


Hi, Mordy, I don't have the tubes you listed.

The "expensive" tube can be cheap if you are patient.

Not sure if Glenn will recommend these miniature tubes for his design. These small tubes are cheaper and double the lifespan of their parents/grandparents.  But many people prefer the large tubes due to sq.

I am pretty sure you should take advantage of the Glenn amp and try these before 12au7:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6sn7-tube-addicts.479031/page-385#post-12661437


----------



## 2359glenn

They are fine if you like them. The 6CG7/6FQ7 and 12AU7 are close to being a 6SN7.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> 
> What do you recommend in the 12AU7 family that sounds good and is inexpensive?
> This is what I have (but I don't have the amp yet to listen to them):
> ...



Hi mordy,
Will be listening to some of the 12AU/T/X7s in the GOTL in the near future. Next on the list.
Had a pair of tubes from that group that got me excited...

Recently had been spending time with a 12ATX7A/7025A said to be '50s RCA, but it's made in Canada?
Not a common, or easy to find tube, not expensive, had been gifted to me. These look NOS.
7025A was a 12ATX7A variation with 'controlled' noise and hum. 
Identifying feature for this one is a unique top mica plate design... I looked, can't find any.
(Yes, I know that the 12ATX7 has an amplification factor of 100, but GOTL doesn't seem to care.)

Anyway, this unassuming little tube sounded fantastic! Honestly shocked me. LOL
Excellent tonal balance, nothing offensive, good soundstage, but had an added quality
of 'presence' or super-clear micro detail/texture. The tube almost disappeared.
Crazy good, reminded me of the FIVRE 6N7G. But can't be as good as the FIVRE...
Not finished yet, if there is a flaw... I will find it. Still new tube, maybe it will get worse with burn. : )

Moved on to a '70s GE 6FQ7, still early burn period. Back to a reasonable 20 amplification factor.
Had listened to these on other amps, not really impressed, plate voltage on those may have been too low.
On the GOTL, this is a beautiful tube. Impressed, we'll see where it goes.
Smooth, rich, lush, with no hollows or spikes, good resolution and dynamics, good extension.
Not an expensive tube, $20 or less.

All of these were with the CTN 6336B.


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> Hi mordy,
> Will be listening to some of the 12AU/T/X7s in the GOTL in the near future. Next on the list.
> Had a pair of tubes from that group that got me excited...
> 
> ...


Hi mros,
I have several Cetron 6336B tubes, and now I am waiting to receive one 6528A (only found one so far). Have a box full of 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes -  some are labeled Sears (Sylvania).......
I also have an alphabet mix of 6DJ8 family tubes: 6BC8, 6BZ8, 6BZ7, 6BS8 (not politically correct I fear), 6BQ7 (is a barbecue more correct?), and a tube that must have been made for rockets, the X155.
Also four 1974 6N23P with that famous bass that UT speaks about.
Seems that small signal tubes work well with the 5A tubes. I just have to be patient for my amp to be built, but it is fun to hear about other people's tube rolling experiences.
The 12ATX7WA tube I have has no manufacturer markings, but it has the tell tale Russian inverted saucer getter, and the box (not original) says Sovtek.
Have fun!


----------



## JazzVinyl

RIP - Art Bell. Dont know how many were fans here, but I really enjoyed his late night radio show in the 90’s...

I am converting a carpet covered staircase back to bare wood. It has proven to be a lot more involved than I thought.  Has really eaten into HP time!

But am getting in some quality time this evening on the Glenn with the 1962 Harman Kardon/Amprerex/Philips 12AU7 and 6x 6BX7’s...think I said it before but bears repeating....if you give 12AU7 a whirl - takes this tube a good 40 mins to sound its best. Frequency response and sound stage both improve with some run time.  

Cheers and happy headphoning to all.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> RIP - Art Bell. Dont know how many were fans here, but I really enjoyed his late night radio show in the 90’s...



Art inspired me to return to school and take public speaking and radio courses.One of a kind,often imitated,and never replicated.

RIP to a true legend.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Art inspired me to return to school and take public speaking and radio courses.One of a kind,often imitated,and never replicated.
> 
> RIP to a true legend.



Nice, Monsterzero...agree he was unique and had unique talents. 

I used to also listen to him chatting with friends on his personal amatuer HAM station and would sent in listening reports via a chat client. He would acknowledge his HAM listeners, on air...

Was a lot of fun.


----------



## UntilThen

My pick for the top of the class combo amongst my tubes are the Tung Sol 6F8G and Gec 6as7g. Truly sublime combo that makes me forget about the gear listening to Holly Cole.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> My pick for the top of the class combo amongst my tubes are the Tung Sol 6F8G and Gec 6as7g. Truly sublime combo that makes me forget about the gear listening to Holly Cole.




Yes sir, that combo is very good indeed.

Matter of fact, one that  I use on special occasions!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Yes sir, that combo is very good indeed.
> 
> Matter of fact, one that  I use on special occasions!



You sir have fine taste and I hope you have many special occasions.


----------



## wazzupi

Why Can't it be may already ?


----------



## UntilThen

That's a lovely pair of Tung Sol 6F8G rebranded as Westinghouse.


----------



## wazzupi

Its too bad none of these work with my la Figaro 339


----------



## wazzupi

These look legit ? And the rating on the box good ?


----------



## UntilThen

A very legit Sylvania 6sn7w metal base to me. Very likely NOS.

That 6F8G is flat plates but I could not detect any difference between my Tung Sol 6F8G flat and round plates. Both great sounding 6F8G tubes.


----------



## wazzupi

I keep reading round is best idk ?


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> My pick for the top of the class combo amongst my tubes are the Tung Sol 6F8G and Gec 6as7g. Truly sublime combo that makes me forget about the gear listening to Holly Cole.



Lookin’ good!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Yes sir, that combo is very good indeed.
> 
> Matter of fact, one that  I use on special occasions!



Joe...know you are an electric guitar fan...ever heard of these guys:

 

https://www.allmusic.com/album/if-four-was-one-mw0000073226


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 17, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Joe...know you are an electric guitar fan...ever heard of these guys:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.allmusic.com/album/if-four-was-one-mw0000073226




No I have not heard of them, until now.

I will check them out.....Thanks for the heads up.

I had a guest over this past weekend to listen to Glenn's amp....he had just bought a ZMF Auteur in teak wood.
He wanted to hear it with Glenns amp, he seemed to like it very well and just like I did when I first heard Glenn's amp, his first words were how much authority the amp has.

The Auteur is a very fine sounding headphone, the bass for an open dynamic can is wonderful.

Also had a quick listen to the Aeon Flow closed headphone.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> I keep reading round is best idk ?



Most people say the round plates sounds best but I don't hear any difference. I see you've got yourself a round plate. You can listen for yourself and see if there is a difference.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> No I have not heard of them, until now.
> 
> I will check them out.....Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> ...



Was it the GEL3N or the GOTL that got his attention?


----------



## UntilThen

After more than 4 months, I've a list of favourite combos. This is the 2nd combo after the Tung Sol 6F8G and Gec 6as7g that I'm listing. This is the Mullard ECC33 and Tung Sol 5998 combo. Spectacular tone and amazing tubes.


----------



## wazzupi

I have rca 6as7g lolz i wonder how they pair with the 6f8g.


----------



## Phantaminum (Apr 17, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> After more than 4 months, I've a list of favourite combos. This is the 2nd combo after the Tung Sol 6F8G and Gec 6as7g that I'm listing. This is the Mullard ECC33 and Tung Sol 5998 combo. Spectacular tone and amazing tubes.



I can’t wait to try out some of the combinations in the amp. I’m holding off a bit now before buying more tubes to see what sound I prefer and which tube combinations so I can stock up on those.

And the small Russian tubes are amazing. Reflektor 6n3p-E and Oktyabar 6n3ps are some of my favorite. Take a look at the JW 396As/2c51s they’re very smooth tubes and have a wide sound stage. Fanatastic little tubes.

I have a question on some of the power tubes i’ve purchased. What’s the life span (hours) for the 6as7g / 5998 / 6336s? I’ve done a search for the 6as7 and 5998s but I guess my google-fu isn’t strong enough.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Was it the GEL3N or the GOTL that got his attention?





UntilThen said:


> Was it the GEL3N or the GOTL that got his attention?



It was the OTL amp...he listened to a few tube combos

The GEL3N is back at Glenn's ...it is going to get a socket upgrade.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> I have rca 6as7g lolz i wonder how they pair with the 6f8g.



If all you have are the RCA 6as7g and Svetlana 6h13c, they actually sound very good on the GOTL. It's only when you have all the power tubes then you start to pick your preference. 

Well I haven't gotten to the 6bx7s and 6336s combos yet... 

So not all of my premier combos revolves around the Gec 6as7g and Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I can’t wait to try out some of the combinations in the amp. I’m holding off a bit now before buying more tubes to see what sound I prefer and which tube combinations so I can stock up on those.
> 
> And the small Russian tubes are amazing. Reflektor 6n3p-E and Oktyabar 6n3ps are some of my favorite. Take a look at the JW 396As/2c51s they’re very smooth tubes and have a wide sound stage. Fanatastic little tubes.
> 
> I have a question on some of the power tubes i’ve purchased. What’s the life span (hours) for the 6as7g / 5998 / 6336s? I’ve done a search for the 6as7 and 5998s but I guess my google-fu isn’t strong enough.



Definitely take your time and don't be in a rush to get as many tubes at once. When you get the OTL, go with the tubes you already have and you have a big collection now. It took me a long time before I lay my hands on the Gec 6080, 6as7g.

Unfortunately a lot of people are also looking for the better 6as7g and 5998. They are getting rare and expensive now. Well they were already rare and expensive a few years ago. They do show up sometimes though. And as I said, there are alternative power tubes that make it to my premier class combos - the 6bx7s, 6bl7s and 6336s.

If you buy your 6as7g, 5998 and 6336 new or nearly new, they will last a very long time. I've not expired any tubes yet but then I rotate my tubes and do not use one particular set exclusively.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> I can’t wait to try out some of the combinations in the amp. I’m holding off a bit now before buying more tubes to see what sound I prefer and which tube combinations so I can stock up on those.
> 
> And the small Russian tubes are amazing. Reflektor 6n3p-E and Oktyabar 6n3ps are some of my favorite. Take a look at the JW 396As/2c51s they’re very smooth tubes and have a wide sound stage. Fanatastic little tubes.
> 
> I have a question on some of the power tubes i’ve purchased. What’s the life span (hours) for the 6as7g / 5998 / 6336s? I’ve done a search for the 6as7 and 5998s but I guess my google-fu isn’t strong enough.


Hi P,
Re the life span of the larger ST octal tubes - they are rated for 5000-10000 hours. I cannot remember wearing out a tube yet (except for a couple I dropped by accident -ouch!), but on the other hand most tubes don't stay in forever due to tube rolling.....


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi P,
> Re the life span of the larger ST octal tubes - they are rated for 5000-10000 hours. I cannot remember wearing out a tube yet (except for a couple I dropped by accident -ouch!), but on the other hand most tubes don't stay in forever due to tube rolling.....



Roger that and thanks for the information. I’m trying to think on how many to keep in stock to last me for the long haul. With the way I use tubes my 6922s should last me 5-7 years per tube and I was trying to calculate the same for the power tubes.

@UntilThen I’m reaching for one last set of 6as7gs and 5998s. I think the current collection I have now should last me for a long time. I’m looking for back ups in case any decide to go bad. Thank you guys for the information.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The GEC 6AS7 and 6080 have become crazy expensive.  So has the 5998 now.  I feel a good alternative are the Chatham/Tung-Sol 6AS7s.  They sound nicer than the RCAs and the Soviet tubes and can still be bought for reasonable prices.  If you can find the 6520 version they're even better, kind of a poor man's GEC.


----------



## Phantaminum

Xcalibur255 said:


> The GEC 6AS7 and 6080 have become crazy expensive.  So has the 5998 now.  I feel a good alternative are the Chatham/Tung-Sol 6AS7s.  They sound nicer than the RCAs and the Soviet tubes and can still be bought for reasonable prices.  If you can find the 6520 version they're even better, kind of a poor man's GEC.



Agreed. The previous Chatham 6as7g I found on eBay and purchased them in a bid for $70 a pair. Lucked out on that pair for being almost NOS. I’m now working with someone else to acquire another pair. The 5998s have ticked up in price since I started looking in January. I’d rather buy another set now before they go even higher. 

I think that’s it for me then. Possibly just keep an eye out for nice tubes but hold off buying unless it’s a really great deal. I was looking at the 7138s for drivers but it seems you have to run two tubes into one 6sn7 socket converter. Now it’s the long haul wait for Glenn’s OTL.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> The GEC 6AS7 and 6080 have become crazy expensive.  So has the 5998 now.  I feel a good alternative are the Chatham/Tung-Sol 6AS7s.  They sound nicer than the RCAs and the Soviet tubes and can still be bought for reasonable prices.  If you can find the 6520 version they're even better, kind of a poor man's GEC.


Hi X,
From what I have seen there are two kinds of 6520 - one with regular plates and one with dimpled plates. Which one do you have in mind?
Also want to point out that the 6336 tube is an excellent, lower priced alternative for the 5998. Actually, a double 5998, but you need a suitable amp or gear to handle this 5A tube.


----------



## wazzupi

C3g the best daily driver ? Or should i just go with what i prefer sound wise.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> C3g the best daily driver ? Or should i just go with what i prefer sound wise.



You would be hard pressed to pick the best daily driver because there are quite a few really good ones. Listen to them all because you already have 3 very good ones.


----------



## whirlwind

wazzupi said:


> C3g the best daily driver ? Or should i just go with what i prefer sound wise.



it is really just what sound you like best.
That being said, I would definitely not buy a driver tube that cost more than a pair of C3g driver tubes, at least not until you own a pair of the  C3g tubes.
I believe they are 10,000 hour tubes.

It really does not take many tubes to get started, and Glenn will include some, I know he includes a 1633 driver, which is a 25 volt SN7 tube.


----------



## Monsterzero

Glenn is tackling my amp next...
@UntilThen 
I reached out to Andy at Vintage Tube Services and Brent Jesse looking for some of the tubes you suggested to me in the 339 thread,some of which are being suggested in this thread as well.

Both Andy and Brent had none of the tubes you are rocking and both agreed that they were ultra high end"unobtanium"...Can yall recommend some "bang for the buck tube combos that arent stupid hard to find?


----------



## Khragon

Glenn 300B owners rejoice:
http://www.westernelectric.com/products/300b.html

Hopefully this will become a reality, this time.


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> C3g the best daily driver ? Or should i just go with what i prefer sound wise.


There is no best; it is what you like the best.....
That said, there is a group of top tier tubes that will meet most peoples' expectations.


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Hi X,
> From what I have seen there are two kinds of 6520 - one with regular plates and one with dimpled plates. Which one do you have in mind?
> Also want to point out that the 6336 tube is an excellent, lower priced alternative for the 5998. Actually, a double 5998, but you need a suitable amp or gear to handle this 5A tube.



Mine have regular plates like a 6AS7.  The ones with domino plates like a 5998 are odd ducks, and may actually be 5998 tubes.  This got debated a lot by users but there isn't enough information to be sure one way or the other.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Khragon said:


> Glenn 300B owners rejoice:
> http://www.westernelectric.com/products/300b.html
> 
> Hopefully this will become a reality, this time.



I sure hope that wood box is optional.  This is my problem with high end audio.  There is so much money spent on things that have absolutely nothing to do with how the product sounds.


----------



## wazzupi

Khragon said:


> Glenn 300B owners rejoice:
> http://www.westernelectric.com/products/300b.html
> 
> Hopefully this will become a reality, this time.


Can i stick it on my glenn otl amp with some weird contraption ? Hehe


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> I sure hope that wood box is optional.  This is my problem with high end audio.  There is so much money spent on things that have absolutely nothing to do with how the product sounds.


Hi X,
Right on - reminds of the packaging of the various Psvane tubes. 
On the hand, I sort of expect a fancy box with a $1000 set of headphones and not a padded bubble bag.....


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Glenn is tackling my amp next...
> @UntilThen
> I reached out to Andy at Vintage Tube Services and Brent Jesse looking for some of the tubes you suggested to me in the 339 thread,some of which are being suggested in this thread as well.
> 
> Both Andy and Brent had none of the tubes you are rocking and both agreed that they were ultra high end"unobtanium"...Can yall recommend some "bang for the buck tube combos that arent stupid hard to find?


6BL7's - that's what I'll be running most of the time. Easy to get 6 of those. Shouldn't be too hard to get 4 7236's. The drivers are almost endless, but as you only need one in the GOTL, might check eBay for an ECC33 or ECC35. I know previous pages on here also mention a whole bunch more. The biggest problem I had with the WA22 was finding TWO of the best driver tubes that were as similar as possible (age, construction, wear, test results, etc) as it can be a little finicky. You don't have this problem with the GOTL - so as long as the tube isn't completely knackered you should be fine.


----------



## Khragon

Xcalibur255 said:


> I sure hope that wood box is optional.  This is my problem with high end audio.  There is so much money spent on things that have absolutely nothing to do with how the product sounds.



I like wooden box as it protect the tubes during shipping.  Doesn't need to be fancy, but something stronger than paper boxes that EML or Elrog uses for their tubes.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> 6BL7's - that's what I'll be running most of the time. Easy to get 6 of those. Shouldn't be too hard to get 4 7236's. The drivers are almost endless, but as you only need one in the GOTL, might check eBay for an ECC33 or ECC35. I know previous pages on here also mention a whole bunch more. The biggest problem I had with the WA22 was finding TWO of the best driver tubes that were as similar as possible (age, construction, wear, test results, etc) as it can be a little finicky. You don't have this problem with the GOTL - so as long as the tube isn't completely knackered you should be fine.



Thank you!


----------



## JazzVinyl

What I love about Glenn's amp..it feels "professional". 
Looks great, is built to last and built to do what it does, in a premium fashion.  Does not get too hot (which is what kills most tube amps).  
It is a very fine machine, I am honored, to own one.       

Enjoying the FDD20 with a pair of 5998's - sounds so good.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> 6BL7's - 7236's.  ECC33 or ECC35.


Which(if any) fit into the Glenn natively,and which require an adapter?


----------



## Sound Trooper (Apr 17, 2018)

Khragon said:


> Glenn 300B owners rejoice:
> http://www.westernelectric.com/products/300b.html
> 
> Hopefully this will become a reality, this time.



Looks great! I wonder how it would compare (sound/durability/price) to the taks.

I would love to get a 300B amp from Glenn in the near future but in the meantime, I'm eagerly waiting for my EL3N to be completed.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Which(if any) fit into the Glenn natively,and which require an adapter?



A pair of 7236 is plug and play in all his OTLs and if you have 6 output sockets, four 7236 and four or six 6BL7 are as well. And the ECC33 and ECC35 are also plug and play in a standard SN7 driver socket.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> A pair of 7236 is plug and play in all his OTLs and if you have 6 output sockets, four 7236 and four or six 6BL7 are as well. And the ECC33 and ECC35 are also plug and play in a standard SN7 driver socket.



Thanks,seems im more or less ready then...Heres another toob-noob question:

Do tube mgfrs have a "house sound"? E.g,are all Telfunken tubes bright and detailed,or is that over simplifying things?
I have a single Telefunken 12AU7 that totally transformed the mids of my Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks,seems im more or less ready then...Heres another toob-noob question:
> 
> Do tube mgfrs have a "house sound"? E.g,are all Telfunken tubes bright and detailed,or is that over simplifying things?
> I have a single Telefunken 12AU7 that totally transformed the mids of my Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum.



It is my experience that mgfrs have a "house sound." And yes, the Telefunken double triodes and rectifiers I have are all pretty bright. In fact, I find that Telefunken rectifiers work best in fairly dark systems. For example, to my ears, the darker embossed Lorenz C3g are a much better match than the Siemens C3g.


----------



## leftside

Can you run 4 5998s in the GOTL?


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Hi X,
> From what I have seen there are two kinds of 6520 - one with regular plates and one with dimpled plates. Which one do you have in mind?
> Also want to point out that the 6336 tube is an excellent, lower priced alternative for the 5998. Actually, a double 5998, but you need a suitable amp or gear to handle this 5A tube.


Thanks @mordy I'll have to check out the 6336.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> It is my experience that mgfrs have a "house sound." And yes, the Telefunken double triodes and rectifiers I have are all pretty bright. In fact, I find that Telefunken rectifiers work best in fairly dark systems. For example, to my ears, the darker embossed Lorenz C3g are a much better match than the Siemens C3g.


I really like having Telefunkens <somewhere> in the path of an all tube system.


----------



## leftside

Sound Infinity said:


> Looks great! I wonder how it would compare (sound/durability/price) to the taks.


I'm sure myself or @TonyNewman or @Khragon will let you know at some point


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi X,
> From what I have seen there are two kinds of 6520 - one with regular plates and one with dimpled plates. Which one do you have in mind?
> Also want to point out that the 6336 tube is an excellent, lower priced alternative for the 5998. Actually, a double 5998, but you need a suitable amp or gear to handle this 5A tube.



The 6520 appears to be a Chatham 6AS7. The industrial number, 6520, typically indicates such attributes as a longer life and/or more shock resistance. However, the Chatham 6AS7 and 6520 I have seen appear to be identical, so it is not clear to me if it is actually a different tube or a cherry-picked 6AS7.

And if the 6520 has domino plates, it is simply a 5998 labeled as a 6520.

Also, I think it is a bit of a stretch to claim that the 6336 is a double 5998. Most sources indicate that it is essentially a double 6080. That said, as Chatham manufactured 6080, 5998, 6336, 6520, 6528 and 7236, these tubes may well share a similar house sound....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Switched to C3g and 5998's playing Tangerine Dreams' 2 CD set "Booster"....
Best I have heard the C3g's...they have too much gain for 6BL7's the lower gain 5998's...much nicer.

Umm umm, good.


----------



## Khragon

leftside said:


> I'm sure myself or @TonyNewman or @Khragon will let you know at some point



Not me anymore, I no longer own Tak.  I have a pair of WE300B I'm using now as my one and only set, sold all the other 300B that I own.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Switched to C3g and 5998's playing Tangerine Dreams' 2 CD set "Booster"....
> Best I have heard the C3g's...they have too much gain for 6BL7's the lower gain 5998's...much nicer.
> 
> Umm umm, good.



I agree too. C3g and 5998 is another premier combo that sounds exceptional on the GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Can you run 4 5998s in the GOTL?



Yes you can but a pair of 5998 sounds so good I don't feel the need to use 4.


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 18, 2018)

leftside said:


> Can you run 4 5998s in the GOTL?




Yes you can  use 4 6AS7G tubes....cheaper options than 4 5998 tubes though .

There is probably going to be a consensus that the best power tubes are as follows:
No particular order...all four are good, depends on your ears.
GEC  6AS7G
Tung Sol 5998
Bendix 6080
GEC 6080
Any of the above are going to cost you some pretty big dollars, unless you are very patient and can find a good deal.

A notch below these are probably
Tung Sol 7236
Mullard 6080
Chatham 6AS7G with copper rods
6336A/B   I am putting this tube here, some may have it higher...I  do not use it much these days because of the heat...beware, this runs HOT!  Great with planar cans on the OTL though.
Using a set of socket savers helps get some heat away from the chasis.

Then maybe all the rest
RCA 6AS7G....I believe if a 6AS7G is labeled Sylvania it is still really a RCA
6080 various manufactures


Thing is running four or six 6BX7/6BL7 tubes....you get the sound that is in the top tier category...maybe even better
So instead thowings gobs of cash at the top tier tubes...the smart money is on the 6BX7/6BL7

For driver tubes the list would be much longer...but only one driver tube is needed


----------



## UntilThen

3rd premier combo in my list. Now we are getting towards more 'affordable' tubes but the sound is sterling.

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6bx7gt.


----------



## yates7592

Woo hoo, just found out my OTL will be delivered tomorrow following open heart surgery at Glenn's hospital.


----------



## wazzupi

yates7592 said:


> Woo hoo, just found out my OTL will be delivered tomorrow following open heart surgery at Glenn's hospital.


Bring out more of these responses so i inch closer to my amp xD


----------



## JazzVinyl

yates7592 said:


> Woo hoo, just found out my OTL will be delivered tomorrow following open heart surgery at Glenn's hospital.



Congrats, Yates!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Yes you can  use 4 6AS7G tubes....cheaper options than 4 5998 tubes though .
> 
> Thing is running four or six 6BX7/6BL7 tubes....you get the sound that is in the top tier category...maybe even better
> So instead of throwings gobs of cash at the top tier tubes...the smart money is on the 6BX7/6BL7



Completely agree with Joe.  
Only caveat is that the 6BX/BL7's have a lot of gain and require lower gain drivers...so some 6AS7G or equiv's may still be necessary when you want to run higher gain drivers (like the C3g/ECC31 etc).


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Completely agree with Joe.
> Only caveat is that the 6BX/BL7's have a lot of gain and require lower gain drivers...so some 6AS7G or equiv's may still be necessary when you want to run higher gain drivers (like the C3g/ECC31 etc).



My experience is different....  I run 6BX7 and C3g and to my ears it sounds great. And this is with the original US-made transformer. But again, my ears and gear... YMMV...


----------



## gibosi

Hey Glenn,

Found a British 'post' tube, 5A/152M, similar to the C3g. Unfortunately, the pin-out is different and they seem to be rather rare.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5a152m.html

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-5A-152M...E-TUBE-NOS-NIB-NEW-c3m-c3g-Phone/292203900229


----------



## Phantaminum

yates7592 said:


> Woo hoo, just found out my OTL will be delivered tomorrow following open heart surgery at Glenn's hospital.



‘Grats Yates! Post some unboxing pictures for us and the pool noodles. Can’t wait to see yours up and running.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> Hey Glenn,
> 
> Found a British 'post' tube, 5A/152M, similar to the C3g. Unfortunately, the pin-out is different and they seem to be rather rare.
> 
> ...



That’s really interesting. I wonder how’d they sound compared to the c3gs/c3ms. 

Along the same lines; were the Telefunken c3g (non embossed) made by Siemens as well? I think you also mentioned that the embossed Lorenz c3gs sounded a tad bit darker that the rest. I ended up with a pair of those for a reasonable price.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Khragon said:


> I like wooden box as it protect the tubes during shipping.  Doesn't need to be fancy, but something stronger than paper boxes that EML or Elrog uses for their tubes.



I completely understand wanting a sturdy container for an expensive item.  What I was criticizing was how needlessly expensive the particular box in that photo was.  The joinery on it is impressive, but do you really want to pay an extra $100 or more for your tubes to be in a *fancy* box instead of plain and functional one?  This hobby is full of things like this now, and it raises prices for everybody in the long run.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Apr 18, 2018)

gibosi said:


> The 6520 appears to be a Chatham 6AS7. The industrial number, 6520, typically indicates such attributes as a longer life and/or more shock resistance. However, the Chatham 6AS7 and 6520 I have seen appear to be identical, so it is not clear to me if it is actually a different tube or a cherry-picked 6AS7.
> 
> And if the 6520 has domino plates, it is simply a 5998 labeled as a 6520.
> 
> Also, I think it is a bit of a stretch to claim that the 6336 is a double 5998. Most sources indicate that it is essentially a double 6080. That said, as Chatham manufactured 6080, 5998, 6336, 6520, 6528 and 7236, these tubes may well share a similar house sound....



Excellent info as always gibosi.  I also want to chime in and clarify that it wasn't my intention to imply the 6520 is somehow superior to a 6AS7 by design or construction because I'm sure it's not.  I believe the 6520 designation was primarily to indicate a "computer rated" 6AS7.  They're just cherry picked 6AS7s with lower noise.  But this is exactly why I think they're worth finding.  American 6AS7 tubes very frequently have noise issues.

My personal experience between a pair of Tung Sol 6AS7 (which should be identical to Chathams except for early vintage ones) and a pair of Chatham/Tung-Sol 6520 is that the latter are slightly more resolving and seem to have a more refined top end with less grain.  I like the tone better too, but this could be attributable to anything since I wasn't making a specific attempt to control for this attribute.  For what they typically sell for I feel they are a much better value than GEC at this point when price is taken into consideration.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Yes you can  use 4 6AS7G tubes....cheaper options than 4 5998 tubes though .
> 
> There is probably going to be a consensus that the best power tubes are as follows:
> No particular order...all four are good, depends on your ears.
> ...


Hi W,
I would put the Cetron 6336B in the top tier. The internals run really hot, but I use socket savers and a salvaged 4" fan from an old PC. On the advice of an old A/V engineer friend I mounted the fan so that it draws air away from my amp rather than blowing on it. I have an inexpensive infrared thermometer (around $13 on Amazon) and I use it to check the temperatures on my amp and tubes.
Re Gibosi's comment that the 6336 is a double 6080 rather than 5998 I am not qualified to argue, but I fancy that the ST shape is still closer to the 5998 than the 6080......
I am using the 6336 in a modified setup in my FA Euforia amp, and I find that anything I throw at it in terms of drivers is enhanced with a superb bass presentation and instrument separation - the proverbial hearing new things in old well known recordings. Somehow what happens in the background of recordings is brought to more life and detail without being intrusive.
Right now I invited the WIRAG Corps to play with American Muscle lol (If you are allergic to Frankenstein pictures don't look LOL):




And finally, congratulations to Yates!


----------



## mordy

Hi Gibosi,
You can find the STM C3g clone(?) relatively inexpensively here and there, but since it has a different pinout (and no available adapters) I did not get it.
In addition, there is a whole bunch of C3 tubes in different voltages and pinouts. I once checked out perhaps at least 6 different variants with different alphabet characters, but with the exception of the 20V C3m I did not came across anybody using them. 
C3b and C3c 4V
C3d, C3e, C3f 18V
C3g we all know about 6.3V
C3h 6.3V
C3m 20V
C3o 6.3V (6.3 version of C3m but pinout of these different than the C3g)
The C3j is a thyrathron tube, but I think all the others above are pentodes (my head is spinning lol from all these variants so I may be wrong)


----------



## 2359glenn

yates7592 said:


> Woo hoo, just found out my OTL will be delivered tomorrow following open heart surgery at Glenn's hospital.



It's about time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rnros

yates7592 said:


> Woo hoo, just found out my OTL will be delivered tomorrow following open heart surgery at Glenn's hospital.



Congrats Yates!! You'll soon know it was Worth The Wait.


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Hi Gibosi,
> You can find the STM C3g clone(?) relatively inexpensively here and there, but since it has a different pinout (and no available adapters) I did not get it.
> In addition, there is a whole bunch of C3 tubes in different voltages and pinouts. I once checked out perhaps at least 6 different variants with different alphabet characters, but with the exception of the 20V C3m I did not came across anybody using them.
> C3b and C3c 4V
> ...



This raises an interesting thought.  There may be tubes in this list that sound the same as the C3g (or who knows, maybe better?) and are sitting around waiting to be bought for cheap because nobody uses them.  I don't know how difficult it is to work around the atypical heater voltages, but seeing how adaptable Glenn makes his designs I can't imagine it being too tall a ladder to climb.


----------



## Oskari

Tung-Sol about the 6520:


Oskari said:


> The datasheet (http://scottbecker.net/tube/sheets/127/6/6520.pdf) says this:


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> This raises an interesting thought.  There may be tubes in this list that sound the same as the C3g (or who knows, maybe better?) and are sitting around waiting to be bought for cheap because nobody uses them.  I don't know how difficult it is to work around the atypical heater voltages, but seeing how adaptable Glenn makes his designs I can't imagine it being too tall a ladder to climb.


Hi X255,
To me the difficulty is not changing the voltage (it is just turning a little set screw on a voltage regulator and measuring the voltage), but to me the main difficulty is getting non-standard adapters with different pinouts and different amount of pins.
EU Telephone 7 pin:












EU Telephone 9 pins:




Loctal 8 pin - our C3g:




C3m and C3o loctal 8 pin but different pinout









See what I mean?


----------



## whirlwind

yates7592 said:


> Woo hoo, just found out my OTL will be delivered tomorrow following open heart surgery at Glenn's hospital.




Ha!

Congrats, man this thing has been in customs or wherever for some time.

Good times ahead, enjoy.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> That’s really interesting. I wonder how’d they sound compared to the c3gs/c3ms.
> 
> Along the same lines; were the Telefunken c3g (non embossed) made by Siemens as well? I think you also mentioned that the embossed Lorenz c3gs sounded a tad bit darker that the rest. I ended up with a pair of those for a reasonable price.



To the best of my knowledge, Telefunken with shiny-black silkscreened cans were manufactured by Siemens. I did find a pair of shiny-black Telefunken that appeared to have tooling slightly different than the Siemens, but my ears couldn't detect any difference. So until I can get my  hands on a pair of embossed Telefunkens to compare, I am inclined to believe that all shiny-black silkscreened C3g, regardless of brand, were manufactured by Siemens,

But yes, to my ears, the flat-black embossed Lorenz, dated 1966, sound very different, darker, than either the earlier flat-black embossed Siemens or the later shiny-black Siemens.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> My experience is different....  I run 6BX7 and C3g and to my ears it sounds great. And this is with the original US-made transformer. But again, my ears and gear... YMMV...



Yes, sounds good w/6BX7's  -  but a lot of gain with C3g, either have to turn down the input signal (which I can do, and maybe you, but many cannot) or accept that a very small amount of the volume pot is usable....


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Hey Glenn,
> 
> Found a British 'post' tube, 5A/152M, similar to the C3g. Unfortunately, the pin-out is different and they seem to be rather rare.
> 
> ...



Were can I find the pin-out?
It does say it is a power amp so might not be good for a driver.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> Were can I find the pin-out?
> It does say it is a power amp so might not be good for a driver.



Pin-out:
http://www.hupse.eu/radio/tubes/5A152M.htm
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/144/5/5A-152M.pdf


----------



## 2359glenn

It is probably doable but would have to get one of those dual adapters 6SN7 to two 6J5 then build two octal to loctal adapters.
Don't have the time to do this at the moment.
Or get that woman in China to build a 6SN7 to two 5A/152M tubes.
A bit much to just try these tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Apr 18, 2018)

Look what just arrived!  Mordy’s Russian Wonders


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mordy's ribbed plate Russian tube, sounds *very* good.

Speaking of Russians...warnings went out yesterday and the day before that Russian sponsored hackers are on a campaign to install malware on your home router:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/04/16/russian_hackers_internet_routers/

To protect yourself, log in to your router, and have it download and install firmware updates.  And, make sure you change all the default passwords to something very hard to guess.

If someone gains control over your router, they "own" your network traffic.  Don't want that.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, sounds good w/6BX7's  -  but a lot of gain with C3g, either have to turn down the input signal (which I can do, and maybe you, but many cannot) or accept that a very small amount of the volume pot is usable....



Oh, I understand now.  As I use a preamp to keep the input signal at about the same level, I can easily compensate for drivers with very different amounts of gain. But it hadn't occurred to me before now that those who don't use preamps would have this problem.....


----------



## gibosi

Oskari said:


> Tung-Sol about the 6520:



This information posted by Oskari does indeed suggest that the Chatham 6520 is actually a different tube than their 6AS7G. And as the major difference is inter-electrodal, better insulation between the grid and plate, it would explain why these tubes appear to be identical to the naked eye. And it also explains why Xc has noticed that the 6520 and 6AS7G sound different. So it certainly seems that these tubes are worth chasing.

That said, the tube pictured below is a 5998. It is not a 6520.


----------



## gibosi

It has occurred to me that my current configuration is somewhat relevant to a number of recent topics. 

Lorenz embossed C3g, four Tung-Sol 6BX7GT and a Telefunken WE56 rectifier. Sounds great.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> It's about time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Well Yates, give me the good news.


----------



## jekjek

JazzVinyl said:


> Look what just arrived!  Mordy’s Russian Wonders



I ordered some too but have not receive ut yet


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi everybody, and @2359glenn - most of you probably know me from the Feliks Audio threads. Not quite yet ready / able to go the Glenn Amp route, my attention was brought here by @mordy who impressed me with his adaptation 6336 tubes on the Euforia amp. I thought I may give a go at one last tube experiment on my Euforia amp, which you can see here I'm currently basking in an EL3N + EL12 setup (thanks in part to UT), now wondering if I could still push it to the level of what Mordy describes.

While I've already found a good source for 6336 tube, I would be grateful for a bit of advice on configuring the rest of this custom setup. Here is how Mordy described his setup, with a few questions below:
_"I use a run-of-the mill 450W PC power supply that I had as a spare. Then connect the 12V lead to the 20A voltage regulator and setting it to 6.3V. (The previously used voltage regulator was rated at 15A but did not have enough juice for these 10A worth of tubes and sounded hollow.)"_

It seems Mordy is saying he uses the 12v output of a PC fan to power his voltage regulator. And although each 6336 tube only needs 5A, he gets better sound with double the aH current (correct me if I'm wrong). But for me, I'm hoping for more of an_ all-in-one_ approach.

- Would someone be able to recommend perhaps a 20ah power supply that can bet set to 6.3v? 
   (Maybe this can be used in place of a power supply*+*voltage regulator. However I'm all about sound quality so if the former method yields better sound, let me know)
- Is a fan vital to keep the 6336B tubes cool, or just advisable?

For the adapter, I have two existing dual 6SN7 to 6BL7 adapters from Xuling that I never use, and not enough time to order new adapters from China. Using this I would rewire the adapter's power connection instead to the new power supply (or) voltage regulator. I plan to display this modded Euforia (along with a more conventional setup as well) at a Seattle area meet soon, so am hoping to somehow get this all delivered and set up within about 10 days... so any advice including product links would be super helpful, even possibly so I can order today. And I'm trying to stay on a modest budget, yet still focusing on sound quality. Feel free to reply by PM if not here. THANKS in advance!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> - Would someone be able to recommend perhaps a 20ah power supply that can bet set to 6.3v?
> (Maybe this can be used in place of a power supply*+*voltage regulator. However I'm all about sound quality so if the former method yields better sound, let me know)
> - Is a fan vital to keep the 6336B tubes cool, or just advisable?




Hello DL...

PM sent


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> While I've already found a good source for 6336 tube, I would be grateful for a bit of advice on configuring the rest of this custom setup. Here is how Mordy described his setup, with a few questions below:
> _"I use a run-of-the mill 450W PC power supply that I had as a spare. Then connect the 12V lead to the 20A voltage regulator and setting it to 6.3V. (The previously used voltage regulator was rated at 15A but did not have enough juice for these 10A worth of tubes and sounded hollow.)"_
> 
> It seems Mordy is saying he uses the 12v output of a PC fan to power his voltage regulator. And although each 6336 tube only needs 5A, he gets better sound with double the aH current (correct me if I'm wrong). But for me, I'm hoping for more of an_ all-in-one_ approach.



RE: 6336's...
I thought most folks say 6336's sound like 5998's...don't you already have a pair of 5998's?  Thought I saw a a pair on your table pic:  

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...sheeps-clothing.831743/page-289#post-14181671

Comments from 5998/6336 owners?


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 19, 2018)

Yes I have a good 5998 pair, black domino plated well tested Tung Sol version. Find it do be somewhat too euphonic and (if memory serves me well) something amiss in the bass. While the 6336B may have some/all similarities, it also has a large carbon plate whereas the TS has only the black metal plate. Considering how different my carbon plate Bendix 6080's sound (for the better IMO) than the 5998, I would venture to say the 6336 may sound more suitable to me and quite different. I think @mordy either has or has tried 5998's, and I don't recall him praising them nearly as much as the 6336's...


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 19, 2018)

Update: for anyone who may be drafting a response on a power supply / transformer for my above question, disregard it... before I knew it, helpful member JazzVinyl offered to sell me his.

I am still interested in the above about a sound comparison from TS 5998 and Cetron 6336B however.

Also someone please tell me your opinion of whether the 6336s really need a fan?

And PS - I'll be saving all these fine gem tubes for potential use on a future Glenn amp too


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Update: for anyone who may be drafting a response on a power supply / transformer for my above question, disregard it... before I knew it, helpful member JazzVinyl offered to sell me his.
> 
> I am still interested in the above about a sound comparison from TS 5998 and Cetron 6336B however.
> 
> ...


Hi DL,
I have a "near pair" of TS 5998 tubes. One is a TS and the other branded IBM. Don't know much about their condition but I did not pay that much for them. Although they have good bass punch they didn't really catch my attention.
The 6336B carbon plates on the other hand continue to amaze me. They seem to lay a very solid detailed foundation in the bass ranges; after that they seem to stay neutral and take on the flavor of whatever driver tubes I throw at them in a way of enhancing them. The ribbed anode Fotons produced too much bass, but smaller signal tubes excel.
I had great results with the Russian 6N23P (1974). Now I am trying my box of 6DJ8 family tubes. ATM a pair of Sylvania 6BC8 and a Coronado 6BC8 (Sylvania?). 
This combination produces a full luscious sound. 
Again, I do not yet have a GOTL - YMMV.......


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> I have a "near pair" of TS 5998 tubes. One is a TS and the other branded IBM. Don't know much about their condition but I did not pay that much for them. Although they have good bass punch they didn't really catch my attention.
> The 6336B carbon plates on the other hand continue to amaze me. They seem to lay a very solid detailed foundation in the bass ranges; after that they seem to stay neutral and take on the flavor of whatever driver tubes I throw at them in a way of enhancing them. The ribbed anode Fotons produced too much bass, but smaller signal tubes excel.
> I had great results with the Russian 6N23P (1974). Now I am trying my box of 6DJ8 family tubes. ATM a pair of Sylvania 6BC8 and a Coronado 6BC8 (Sylvania?).
> ...



Nice report, Mordy!

I do hear as well, that the 6336's run quite hot?


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> I have a "near pair" of TS 5998 tubes. One is a TS and the other branded IBM. Don't know much about their condition but I did not pay that much for them. Although they have good bass punch they didn't really catch my attention.
> The 6336B carbon plates on the other hand continue to amaze me. They seem to lay a very solid detailed foundation in the bass ranges; after that they seem to stay neutral and take on the flavor of whatever driver tubes I throw at them in a way of enhancing them. The ribbed anode Fotons produced too much bass, but smaller signal tubes excel.
> I had great results with the Russian 6N23P (1974). Now I am trying my box of 6DJ8 family tubes. ATM a pair of Sylvania 6BC8 and a Coronado 6BC8 (Sylvania?).
> ...



That’s great information to hear Mordy. If the 6336Bs provide the sub bass but take on a driver tubes sound (like the mid-forward Tung-Sol 2c51s) then it’s going they’re both going to have great synergy. Thanks for the the feedback.


----------



## yates7592 (Apr 19, 2018)

My Glenn OTL arrived a few hours ago. Limited listening thus far, but it does sound amazing with HD800. Never heard these headphones sound so punchy and - that bass! Goes down low and impactful, like it can't be HD800. Just using Glenn stock rectifier and driver, with 6 x RCA 6BX7 (so far).


----------



## DecentLevi

Congrats, Yates. I've still never had the chance to audition a Glenn amp, even having visited at least 10 meet's & Can-Jam's... wishing some hobbyists or vendors would take the initiative to get these more into the limelight (I'm on the west coast).

Also thanks for the support on the last page, I've got the 6336's on the way (went for two of these), and looks like I'll be getting the power supply from a helpful member... just don't tell a 'certain someone' that I'm adapting my Euforia just yet, LOL


----------



## Monsterzero

yates7592 said:


> My Glenn OTL arrived a few hours ago. Limited listening thus far, but it does sound amazing with HD800. Never heard these headphones sound so punchy and - that bass! Goes down low and impactful, like it can't be HD800. Just using Glenn stock rectifier and driver, with 6 x RCA 6BX7 (so far).



Nice man,was wondering why you werent commenting on your amp these last few weeks,now I know.

Is that a balanced jack I spy on the right?


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> I thought most folks say 6336's sound like 5998's..



Not really. Nothing sounds like 5998. It's unique in it's own tone and I like it.

A lot of my fav combos revolves around the 5998. I like it with ECC33, FDD20, c3g, TS 6F8G, ECC31, Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, etc. As you can see, I like the 5998 with a lot of drivers.  There are a lot more drivers that I didn't name that also sound good with 5998 too. Voskhod 6N23P, Sylvania 6sn7wta, gtb. NU 6sn7gt black glass, Tung Sol 6sn7gt mouse ears.

That said, 6336 is pretty good too IMO but it's hot. It's also good with all the drivers named above. I use a fan when using 6336 just because I like to keep my amp cool.

6336 doesn't sound like Bendix 6080wb carbon plates. 6336 is brighter. Bendix 6080wb is more dense and heavier in the tone.

As usual, YMMV.


----------



## JazzVinyl

yates7592 said:


> My Glenn OTL arrived a few hours ago. Limited listening thus far, but it does sound amazing with HD800. Never heard these headphones sound so punchy and - that bass! Goes down low and impactful, like it can't be HD800. Just using Glenn stock rectifier and driver, with 6 x RCA 6BX7 (so far).



YEAH!!!!    Congrats to Yates (and Glenn) !!!


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Congrats, Yates. I've still never had the chance to audition a Glenn amp, even having visited at least 10 meet's & Can-Jam's... wishing some hobbyists or vendors would take the initiative to get these more into the limelight (I'm on the west coast).



Hi again DL. You will like a Glenn Super 9 or 10 OTL amp because then you would be able to run all these tubes easily. It has a switch for 6 / 12 / 25 volts. How cool is that.

But the one thing that endears me to the GOTL is Glenn's signature tone on this amp. I name 3 main attributes in my early impressions of this amp. Dynamics, clarity and damping. Damping because it's control of bass is superb.


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> My Glenn OTL arrived a few hours ago. Limited listening thus far, but it does sound amazing with HD800. Never heard these headphones sound so punchy and - that bass! Goes down low and impactful, like it can't be HD800. Just using Glenn stock rectifier and driver, with 6 x RCA 6BX7 (so far).



I take it that means it's all sounding good now? Sounds like it.  I'm glad you're finally able to sample the GOTL at it's best.

And that bass... I mean I am not a bass head. This is quality bass we are talking and it shows HD800 at it's best.


----------



## yates7592

Monsterzero said:


> Is that a balanced jack I spy on the right?



Not balanced, it is 4 pin XLR but all Glenn's builds are single ended.


----------



## Monsterzero

yates7592 said:


> Not balanced, it is 4 pin XLR but all Glenn's builds are single ended.



Yup,thats what I thought,just double checking that I didnt miss something....


----------



## felix3650

yates7592 said:


> My Glenn OTL arrived a few hours ago. Limited listening thus far, but it does sound amazing with HD800. Never heard these headphones sound so punchy and - that bass! Goes down low and impactful, like it can't be HD800. Just using Glenn stock rectifier and driver, with 6 x RCA 6BX7 (so far).



Very very nice. What rectifier and driver are those?

@2359glenn 
You got PM


----------



## UntilThen

The Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 arrived yesterday and I've been putting it through some preliminary listening. Never expected this pocket dynamite to sound this good. Thanks to @Xcalibur255  for mentioning the Gold Lion brand. I've used it with 6 x 6bx7gt, 5998 and Gec 6080. It's dead quiet with Gec 6080 and I like it with all these power tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

yates7592 said:


> My Glenn OTL arrived a few hours ago. Limited listening thus far, but it does sound amazing with HD800. Never heard these headphones sound so punchy and - that bass! Goes down low and impactful, like it can't be HD800. Just using Glenn stock rectifier and driver, with 6 x RCA 6BX7 (so far).



That is a real beauty and I spy a 3DG4 rectifier....another great bang for your buck tube.
Congrats again.


----------



## rnros

DecentLevi said:


> Yes I have a good 5998 pair, black domino plated well tested Tung Sol version. *Find it do be somewhat too euphonic and (if memory serves me well) something amiss in the bass.* While the 6336B may have some/all similarities, it also has a large carbon plate whereas the TS has only the black metal plate. Considering how different my carbon plate Bendix 6080's sound (for the better IMO) than the 5998, I would venture to say the 6336 may sound more suitable to me and quite different. I think @mordy either has or has tried 5998's, and I don't recall him praising them nearly as much as the 6336's...



Couple of comments on the 6336B SQ and heat:
I think you will enjoy the 6336 group, but I would recommend the Cetron 6336B version. This is the final, tall bottle version produced up to late '80s (87?). (Like Mordy's.)
There is an SQ difference. True, this last Cetron version is more expensive, but still a great value considering other top tier power tubes.

With regards to the 5998, definitely a beautiful tube, but with my ears/gear/music, I do prefer the Cetron 6336B, for reasons somewhat similar to what you describe above.
Although I suspect that the 5998 may sound better to you in the GOTL. That said, I have no idea what Cetron 6336B will sound like in your current amp.
Mordy's descriptions take the lead there. Great descriptions, and they also apply to the GOTL.

So my quick summary: Nothing lacking, or annoying, with CTN 6336B. Clean, accurate, dynamic, and natural from low end slam to high end subtleties, with rich, even handed mids.
Doesn't add anything to the various drivers, nothing carries over from one to another, subtleties for each driver are easily discernible. Yes, worth a try, don't think you would regret having a pair. 

With regards to heat, never thought it was an issue. Never thought of using a fan. The tube itself doesn't need it. And IMHO, not an issue for my GOTL (10 socket/large chassis).
At least, no more of an issue than using 4 6080/6AS7s or 6 6BX7s. Bottom line, equal or similar total BTUs with those combinations. (Wouldn't put any of these in a cabinet or tight space.)
Anyway, heater watts are all above deck, so no serious issue for the amp, actually checked temperature of the deck for each combination. Worst was the the 4 6080s. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1225#post-14025424   That was quick and easy with contact temperature reading, I'll have to find the temperature gun.  : )
No, you wouldn't try to keep your fingers on the 6336B, but that's also the case with a 5U4G!


----------



## UntilThen (Apr 19, 2018)

felix3650 said:


> Very very nice. What rectifier and driver are those?
> 
> @2359glenn
> You got PM



Do it Felik. If you didn't like the GOTL, I'll eat it. 

That driver is a RCA 1633 - a 25 volts tube.


----------



## rnros

yates7592 said:


> My Glenn OTL arrived a few hours ago. Limited listening thus far, but it does sound amazing with HD800. Never heard these headphones sound so punchy and - that bass! Goes down low and impactful, like it can't be HD800. Just using Glenn stock rectifier and driver, with 6 x RCA 6BX7 (so far).



Congratulations!! That. Is. Beautiful.
Looks EXACTLY like my GOTL. : )


----------



## whirlwind

For the people who like using the 6336 tubes...if you have the 5998 switch on the back of your amp, you can use it on these tubes also.


----------



## rnros

DecentLevi said:


> Congrats, Yates. I've still never had the chance to audition a Glenn amp, even having visited at least 10 meet's & Can-Jam's... wishing some hobbyists or vendors would take the initiative to get these more into the limelight (I'm on the west coast).
> 
> Also thanks for the support on the last page, I've got the 6336's on the way (went for two of these), and looks like I'll be getting the power supply from a helpful member... just don't tell a 'certain someone' that I'm adapting my Euforia just yet, LOL



Have a pair of those from that seller. Perfect tubes. 
Either '86 or '87, doesn't matter, they sound identical. '86s from that seller, '87s were previous purchase.


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> For the people who like using the 6336 tubes...if you have the 5998 switch on the back of your amp, you can use it on these tubes also.



And for full clarity on my comments, my GOTL does NOT have an optional bias switch.


----------



## 2359glenn

felix3650 said:


> Very very nice. What rectifier and driver are those?
> 
> @2359glenn
> You got PM



Rectifier is a 3DG4 a powerful rectifier for Zenith TVs driver 1633/25SN7 1940s RCA sane as 1940s RCA 6sn7 with a 25 volt filament.


----------



## gibosi

rnros said:


> Have a pair of those from that seller. Perfect tubes.
> Either '86 or '87, doesn't matter, they sound identical. '86s from that seller, '87s were previous purchase.



Mine are dated a few years earlier, 1980... I assume they look the same?


----------



## rnros

gibosi said:


> Mine are dated a few years earlier, 1980... I assume they look the same?



Yes.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> Do it Felik. If you didn't like the GOTL, I'll eat it.
> 
> That driver is a RCA 1633 - a 25 volts tube.



I don't like it when people starve but in this case I'll make an exception 



2359glenn said:


> Rectifier is a 3DG4 a powerful rectifier for Zenith TVs driver 1633/25SN7 1940s RCA sane as 1940s RCA 6sn7 with a 25 volt filament.



Thanks Glenn! I sent you a PM and you can reply when you have time. I know you're busy


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> Yes.


I have three pairs of Cetrons + 2 singles. Two pairs are from 1978, one pair from 1976 and a single from 1972. They all have carbon plates and look the same except for two different sizes of circular getters.
Then a single RCA carbon plate from 1971. Even though it lacks the four extra support rods of the Cetrons, I cannot hear a difference between the RCA and the Cetron.
All the tubes have copper rods with the exception of the single Cetron from 1972. (No difference in sound to me).


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> Yes.


I have three pairs + 2 singles. Two pairs are from 1978, one pair from 1976 and a single from 1972, all Cetrons. Except for the size of the circular getters they all look the same.
Then a single RCA from 1971. Even though it lacks the four extra support rods of the Cetrons, I cannot hear a difference between the RCA and the Cetron.
Another difference is that all of the above have copper rods with the exception of the 1972 Cetron - again, I cannot hear a difference.


----------



## mordy

Today I received one 6528A tube made by Raytheon. It looks almost identical to the Raytheon 6336B but the glass bottle is a drop shorter. People have reported that it is interchangeable with the 6336B even though the transconductance is 37000 vs 13500 for the 6336B. Lets take a look:



Plugged it in (many sellers don't seem to be able to test them). 
1) Turn on fan and power source with voltage regulator - yep, it lights up.
2) Turn on integrated amp.
3) Turn on tube amp.
Start playing music - it works and sounds fine. But, it seems to play louder than the 6336B. Why?
Went to Google and printed out the spec sheets for both tubes and found something people did not mention: The amplification factor for the 6336B is 2.7, and the amplification factor for the 6528A is 9.0. No wonder it is louder...
Don't know what this means in terms of synergy with drivers. Can somebody weigh in on this?


----------



## UntilThen

There's no shortage of good sounding tube combinations for the GOTL and this one is ticking all the boxes for my setup, including a beautiful orange glow.

A beautiful, beautiful tone with extended highs, lush mids and impactful bass. Oozing with details and clarity.

Genalex E88CC / 6922 Gold Lion and Cetron 6336b.


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 20, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Not really. Nothing sounds like 5998. It's unique in it's own tone and I like it.
> 
> A lot of my fav combos revolves around the 5998. I like it with ECC33, FDD20, c3g, TS 6F8G, ECC31, Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, etc. As you can see, I like the 5998 with a lot of drivers.  There are a lot more drivers that I didn't name that also sound good with 5998 too. Voskhod 6N23P, Sylvania 6sn7wta, gtb. NU 6sn7gt black glass, Tung Sol 6sn7gt mouse ears.
> 
> ...




I like the 5998 power tube big time also Matt.

Wonderful with many drivers.

One thing for sure....really good power tubes make most driver tubes sound pretty good.
Really good driver tubes make most power tubes sound good.

Best of all, you can put the cheapest tubes you can find in the OTL it and it still rocks!


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> There's no shortage of good sounding tube combinations for the GOTL and this one is ticking all the boxes for my setup, including a beautiful orange glow.
> 
> A beautiful, beautiful tone with extended highs, lush mids and impactful bass. Oozing with details and clarity.
> 
> Genalex E88CC / 6922 Gold Lion and Cetron 6336b.



That Gold Lion is a beautifully crafted tube. Haven't listened to them for awhile. I'll have to have a listen on GOTL.
Construction details on that tube have a strong resemblance to the later date NOS 6N23P-EVs from Reflector.
Always thought they were coming from the same factory.
Beautiful photo!


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Today I received one 6528A tube made by Raytheon. It looks almost identical to the Raytheon 6336B but the glass bottle is a drop shorter. People have reported that it is interchangeable with the 6336B even though the transconductance is 37000 vs 13500 for the 6336B. Lets take a look:
> 
> Plugged it in (many sellers don't seem to be able to test them).
> 1) Turn on fan and power source with voltage regulator - yep, it lights up.
> ...



There was a discussion about these not too long ago. Yes, the amplification factor is higher, similar to the 6BX7s.
Didn't think there was any SQ benefit over the 6336B.
Looking forward to your impressions on all of these on your future GOTL!


----------



## gibosi

rnros said:


> There was a discussion about these not too long ago. Yes, the amplification factor is higher, similar to the 6BX7s.
> Didn't think there was any SQ benefit over the 6336B.
> Looking forward to your impressions on all of these on your future GOTL!



The higher amplification factor contributes to a lower output impedance. And therefore, the major, and perhaps the only reason to run the 6528 over the 6336 is it can drive inefficient low-Z headphones better.


----------



## JazzVinyl

C3g and 4x 6AS7G - sounding great....


----------



## attmci

A


mordy said:


> Today I received one 6528A tube made by Raytheon. It looks almost identical to the Raytheon 6336B but the glass bottle is a drop shorter. People have reported that it is interchangeable with the 6336B even though the transconductance is 37000 vs 13500 for the 6336B. Lets take a look:
> 
> Plugged it in (many sellers don't seem to be able to test them).
> 1) Turn on fan and power source with voltage regulator - yep, it lights up.
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> That Gold Lion is a beautifully crafted tube. Haven't listened to them for awhile. I'll have to have a listen on GOTL.
> Construction details on that tube have a strong resemblance to the later date NOS 6N23P-EVs from Reflector.
> Always thought they were coming from the same factory.
> Beautiful photo!



Thanks rnros. I like the Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 and Voskhod 6N23P with Cetron 6336b a lot. My Mullard CV4003 M8136 12AU7 arrived but still awaiting on the adapter. With these small tubes sounding so good, there is no lack of good driver tubes for the GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> C3g and 4x 6AS7G - sounding great....



Nice ! I have to experiment with quad power tubes again. That's a great shot btw.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I like the 5998 power tube big time also Matt.



Then you should try something decadent like quad 5998 with a great driver such as the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. Now it not only rocks. It's an avalanche !!! 

I really love this GOTL. It sounds great with cheap tubes but feed it great tubes and watch it morphed into Godzilla.


----------



## UntilThen

6sn7w with quad 5998. This is rivalling 6 x 6bx7gt in power and authority. HD800 at it's best.


----------



## UntilThen (Apr 21, 2018)

Superb tone from the 6sn7w and quad 5998. I couldn't stop listening and I don't wish to swap the tubes. If I thought a pair of 5998 sounded good, a quad produces holographic details and textures. The tubes are so quiet too. I couldn't be happier.

For those who wish to splurge, Woo Audio sells a pristine pair of 5998 for $440. 
https://wooaudio.com/tubes/tungsol-5998-pair

I'll just await the arrival of the quad Svetlana 6h13c.


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 21, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Then you should try something decadent like quad 5998 with a great driver such as the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. Now it not only rocks. It's an avalanche !!!
> 
> I really love this GOTL. It sounds great with cheap tubes but feed it great tubes and watch it morphed into Godzilla.




Yes, I tried four 5998 tubes before, but I eventually went to four Chatham 6AS7G, due to the price of the tubes.
I was getting the Chatham 6AS7G tubes back then for $45 a set off of Etsy, so i bought a few sets and did not feel bad about running 4 5998 tubes at the same time....they sure sound good though.
I only used them for my planar cans same way with the 6336 tubes...I never felt the need with the high impedance cans.
Eventually I quit using them as I got the EL3N amp and really never used the OTL much for the planar cans again

Try four Bendix 6080, they are great too  

Wow...Woo has those tubes priced crazy....LOL!


----------



## 2359glenn (Apr 21, 2018)

I should order some bigger transformers so 6 X  5998 can be used.
Could get crazy and change the Heybore transformer to have a 6.3 volt 20 amp winding.
for very little extra money. 
Don't know why all these company's use wimpy transformers doesn't cost much for a
heftier one.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I should order some bigger transformers so 6 X  5998 can be used.




Ha!

Maybe six Russian or regular RCA 6AS7 tubes.

For the price of six 5998 tubes from Woo...I would say just grab the 300B amp


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 21, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> I should order some bigger transformers so 6 X  5998 can be used.
> Could get crazy and change the Heybore transformer to have a 6.3 volt 20 amp winding.
> for very little extra money.
> Don't know why all these company's use wimpy transformers doesn't cost much for a
> heftier one.





Yes, I believed we talked about this once, using that transformer so  6AS7 tubes could be run with no problem.

Kind of surprised someone has not wanted one of these.

This would be a great build for somebody....would not break the bank to get six Russian 6AS7G tubes
You would have the tube rectification and could also get a hexfred adapter.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I should order some bigger transformers so 6 X  5998 can be used.
> Could get crazy and change the Heybore transformer to have a 6.3 volt 20 amp winding.
> for very little extra money.
> Don't know why all these company's use wimpy transformers doesn't cost much for a
> heftier one.



Hahaha 6 x 5998... I'm still trying to digest quad 5998. Next I'll swap in a ECC31 with the quad 5998.

6.3 volt 20 amp ummmmh..... we could really go crazy with tube rolling here.


----------



## UntilThen

I was quite sure I have heard the best from this amp but it's only starting to get interesting with Mullard ECC31 and quad 5998. Now it's beyond holographic. It's surreal.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Try four Bendix 6080, they are great too



I can't afford 4 Bendix 6080 at Bangybangtubes price. Where does he gets all these new tubes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-...273153987692?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I can't afford 4 Bendix 6080 at Bangybangtubes price. Where does he gets all these new tubes.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-...273153987692?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10



Hey Starvos   

That e-bay auction is crazy money,I will borrow a quote that my Dad used to say, "that is where two fools meet"...LOL....that much cash could buy an OTL amp from Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Hey Starvos
> 
> That e-bay auction is crazy money,I will borrow a quote that my Dad used to say, "that is where two fools meet"...LOL....that much cash could buy an OTL amp from Glenn.



I just got off Skype with Stavros we Skype every Saturday.


----------



## yates7592

UntilThen said:


> I can't afford 4 Bendix 6080 at Bangybangtubes price. Where does he gets all these new tubes.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-...273153987692?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10



Yeah, and where does he get these prices?


----------



## Phantaminum

yates7592 said:


> Yeah, and where does he get these prices?



Previously he was selling a set of 5 c3gs for $250 with free shipping. Quite reasonable I thought but it also had the “Or Best Offer”. Declined several of my offers, which the last one was $240, and I forgot about them.

I guess they didn’t sell so he relisted them at $289. What?


----------



## leftside

Anyone find any difference between 5998 1960's with O-getters and black plates and 1950's with D getters and grey plates?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Cheap tubes, too!! 

6x 6BX7 and an inexpensive (less than $20.00 shipped) JAN 12SN7GT Sylvania (has the Navy anchor logo) ....sounds crazy good in this amp.

Jazz Fusion group: Weather Report is throbbing their album "Black Market" (via LP) and hoo-lee Toledo...power/control/authority and delicacy, with "I'm there" sound stage....can all be yours!


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Anyone find any difference between 5998 1960's with O-getters and black plates and 1950's with D getters and grey plates?



I have 3 1960s and 1 1950s 5998 and I don't find any difference tonally on the Darkvoice 336se.


----------



## Phantaminum

Going through and visually inspecting the tubes. Found a few bad tubes and separated them out to the left. 

Going to start with the 6bx7s and move my way up to the drivers. Hopefully i’ll have them all cleaned and repackaged in a few hours. The 6as7gs and 5998s are in great shape so i’m putting those up first. The c3gs have this yellow substance around the gold/steel pins and I’m not sure what it is. 


 

C3G Pins:


----------



## 2359glenn

My latest amp EL3N with speaker outputs.


----------



## 2359glenn (Apr 21, 2018)

In looking for a 3DG4 for the EL3N amp I found a matched quad of Tung-Sol   1963   7236 tubes that I didn't know I had.
Just to much junk lying around I don't know what I have.


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> Going through and visually inspecting the tubes. Found a few bad tubes and separated them out to the left.
> 
> Going to start with the 6bx7s and move my way up to the drivers. Hopefully i’ll have them all cleaned and repackaged in a few hours. The 6as7gs and 5998s are in great shape so i’m putting those up first. The c3gs have this yellow substance around the gold/steel pins and I’m not sure what it is.
> 
> C3G Pins:



If you are referring to the variation in the gold tone of the pin, that is just a difference in surface reflection.
Darker tone is where the gold surface has higher polish from insertion contact into socket.
OR, darker tone is where gold plating is lost. Hard to tell exactly from photo.
You can use your typical cleaner, nothing to worry about beyond that.
If the darker tone is the base metal, doesn't appear to be any corrosion.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> My latest amp EL3N with speaker outputs.



Glenn, I imagine you'd have to use very efficient speakers with this amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes only 2 watts like a #45 amp would be but a great sounding 2 watts. And rarely do you listen over 1 watt.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Yes only 2 watts like a #45 amp would be but a great sounding 2 watts. And rarely do you listen over 1 watt.



Looks great, Glenn...what is the center knob for, on front?


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> Yes only 2 watts like a #45 amp would be but a great sounding 2 watts. And rarely do you listen over 1 watt.



Interesting 2 watts. Need a decent full range speaker for this


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes only 2 watts like a #45 amp would be but a great sounding 2 watts. And rarely do you listen over 1 watt.



It could probably drive my Wharfedale Diamond 10.2


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Looks great, Glenn...what is the center knob for, on front?



Center knob volume left knob impedance 8 ohm or 32 ohm and right knob 1 tube or 2 tube mode.


----------



## lukeap69

Very nice looking EL3N amp! Great job Glenn. I don't suppose it can drive KEF LS50?


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Going to start with the 6bx7s and move my way up to the drivers. Hopefully i’ll have them all cleaned and repackaged in a few hours. The 6as7gs and 5998s are in great shape so i’m putting those up first.



That's a lot of nice sounding tubes for the OTL amp. Good collection of 6bx7s and I spy a 6sn7w metal base.

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with GE 6bx7gt. One of the best tones I've heard on the GOTL. Langrex is now selling the 6SN7A nude base version. Tempted to get another.


----------



## UntilThen

I finally found a combination that is cheap, silent and very good. This is using a foreign made Marconi B36, which I'm told is a Fivre 12sn7. This in combination with 6 x GE 6bx7gt is right up there with the above Sylvania 6sn7w metal base combination. I can retire the 6sn7w for special occasions now.

So get yourself some 12sn7.


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 22, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> My latest amp EL3N with speaker outputs.




Looks very nice Glenn. Hefty.
This should be a killer amp......speaker out and upgraded sockets, very cool


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> Very nice looking EL3N amp! Great job Glenn. I don't suppose it can drive KEF LS50?





lukeap69 said:


> Very nice looking EL3N amp! Great job Glenn. I don't suppose it can drive KEF LS50?



What is the sensitivity  of the KEF LS50??  Not familiar  with that speaker.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> What is the sensitivity  of the KEF LS50??  Not familiar  with that speaker.



As per the specs on the website
Sensitivity 85dB (2.83V/1m)


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Looks very nice Glenn. Hefty.
> This should be a killer amp......speaker out and upgraded sockets, very cool



Hi Joe
I guess I can squeeze in your EL3N amp and destroy it before I start the next amp.
Did get you a 8 pin Yamamoto socket for the rectifier too.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I finally found a combination that is cheap, silent and very good. This is using a foreign made Marconi B36, which I'm told is a Fivre 12sn7. This in combination with 6 x GE 6bx7gt is right up there with the above Sylvania 6sn7w metal base combination. I can retire the 6sn7w for special occasions now.
> 
> So get yourself some 12sn7.




Matt, could you post a picture of that  B36 Fivre tube ?
I would love to see plates and mica


----------



## 2359glenn (Apr 22, 2018)

lukeap69 said:


> As per the specs on the website
> Sensitivity 85dB (2.83V/1m)



It should be barely my speakers are 89 db and it does a OK job.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Hi Joe
> I guess I can squeeze in your EL3N amp and destroy it before I start the next amp.
> Did get you a 8 pin Yamamoto socket for the rectifier too.



It is whatever works for you Glenn

If it gets destroyed, no worries, toss it aside and we will deal with it at some point.
Thanks for getting the Yamamoto rectifier socket.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> That's a lot of nice sounding tubes for the OTL amp. Good collection of 6bx7s and I spy a 6sn7w metal base.
> 
> Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with GE 6bx7gt. One of the best tones I've heard on the GOTL. Langrex is now selling the 6SN7A nude base version. Tempted to get another.



Agree that this set of tubes is the best of the best in GOTL.  
That easy 6SN7W does something really magic and outstanding.  Other drivers interesting and very good.   
But 6SN7W is King.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> As per the specs on the website
> Sensitivity 85dB (2.83V/1m)



Are you still using the Rag with your speakers.
What all headphones have you tried with Darna ?


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Are you still using the Rag with your speakers.
> What all headphones have you tried with Darna ?


Hi Joe

Yes, the Rag is now only used as my speaker amp. The Darna is exclusively powering my headphones. HD800SD and HD650 gets the regular rotation. PM-2, THX-00 and I forgot what else are inside the cupboard slumbering...


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Hi Joe
> 
> Yes, the Rag is now only used as my speaker amp. The Darna is exclusively powering my headphones. HD800SD and HD650 gets the regular rotation. PM-2, THX-00 and I forgot what else are inside the cupboard slumbering...



The Fostex is not getting any love.....someday you will sell the slumbering cans in the closet and try something else with Darna.
I heard the Auteur last weekend, it was a small sample size but in quiet environment great synergy with the OTL.
Wonderful slam for an open dynamic.


----------



## attmci (Apr 22, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Agree that this set of tubes is the best of the best in GOTL.
> That easy 6SN7W does something really magic and outstanding.  Other drivers interesting and very good.
> But 6SN7W is King.


It's probably the most expensive US made 6SN7. But....I think it's just a fine tube.

For cheap replacement, have you guys tried those cheap 7N7s?


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Agree that this set of tubes is the best of the best in GOTL.
> That easy 6SN7W does something really magic and outstanding.  Other drivers interesting and very good.
> But 6SN7W is King.



Try to get it in the 12 volt version for cheep 12SN7W


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Matt, could you post a picture of that  B36 Fivre tube ?
> I would love to see plates and mica



Pictures.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Try to get it in the 12 volt version for cheep 12SN7W



That would be like finding a unicorn. 

I have not seen a 12SN7W before.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> It's probably the most expensive US made 6SN7. But....I think it's just a fine tube.
> 
> For cheap replacement, have you guys tried those cheap 7N7s?



Tung Sol 6sn7gt black glass round plates just as expensive.

I have a 7N7 and have tried it in GOTL. Essentially sounded like a Sylvania 6sn7gtb but it's branded Raytheon.

Sylvania 6sn7w is much better to my ears. It's unilke the other Sylvania 6sn7s that I have. Very extended top end and a very solid bass. Wide soundstage. Tung Sol 6sn7gt BGrp sounds lusher compared to it.


----------



## 2359glenn

There is always these.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-NIB-...195775?hash=item2f198df1bf:g:VywAAOSw8Sta14i-


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> There is always these.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-NIB-...195775?hash=item2f198df1bf:g:VywAAOSw8Sta14i-



That is a good find !!! Not exactly a 6sn7w but these are good too. You would be paying a lot more for a 6sn7gt equivalent.

Someone buys it before I do.


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks for the close up tube pic UT


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> That would be like finding a unicorn.
> 
> I have not seen a 12SN7W before.



I am not sure I have ever seen a 12SN7W labeled Sylvania.
I believe I have seen a few 12SN7 with a medal base tubes branded Philco or something
Not positive of the internals I can't remember.


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 22, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> There is always these.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-NIB-...195775?hash=item2f198df1bf:g:VywAAOSw8Sta14i-



I have many 12SN7GT Joint Army/Navy tubes  and being that they passed inspection to be used in the military most seem to have a wonderful black back round.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> The Fostex is not getting any love.....someday you will sell the slumbering cans in the closet and try something else with Darna.
> I heard the Auteur last weekend, it was a small sample size but in quiet environment great synergy with the OTL.
> Wonderful slam for an open dynamic.


I really don't like buying and selling stuff. I will eventually listen to the THX-00 and the PM-2. It's just the HD800 and HD650 are really good combo that I don't feel the urge to look at my othe cans. And I have been back to playing guitar after 20 years of hiatus so other things have to take a backseat. I just bought myself a Martin D-28 which is my new baby in the house.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> There is always these.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-NIB-...195775?hash=item2f198df1bf:g:VywAAOSw8Sta14i-



That will get you into the two-hole, three-hole badboy debate. LOL


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Tung Sol 6sn7gt black glass round plates just as expensive.
> 
> I have a 7N7 and have tried it in GOTL. Essentially sounded like a Sylvania 6sn7gtb but it's branded Raytheon.
> 
> ...


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> I really don't like buying and selling stuff. I will eventually listen to the THX-00 and the PM-2. It's just the HD800 and HD650 are really good combo that I don't feel the urge to look at my othe cans. And I have been back to playing guitar after 20 years of hiatus so other things have to take a backseat. I just bought myself a Martin D-28 which is my new baby in the house.



Congrats on picking the guitar back up.
Would love to see a pic of your Martin.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Congrats on picking the guitar back up.
> Would love to see a pic of your Martin.


Thanks Joe.

Here she is...


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> I really don't like buying and selling stuff. I will eventually listen to the THX-00 and the PM-2. It's just the HD800 and HD650 are really good combo that I don't feel the urge to look at my othe cans. And I have been back to playing guitar after 20 years of hiatus so other things have to take a backseat. I just bought myself a Martin D-28 which is my new baby in the house.



Buying and selling is a heartache. I just sold the Rag to someone in New Zealand. He's extremely happy but I told him my GOTL sounds better than the Rag. 

What a shame. A 8 months old Rag. Just don't ask me how much I lose on that.

Then I bought the Axis Voicebox S and got my Hi-Fi to where I want it. Sounds really good but somehow I'm spending more time on my head-fi setup instead. I may have found my ideal headphone setup because it's so articulate, nuanced and musical.

Yggdrasil > GOTL and my 4 headphones. I spend too much time listening to music.


----------



## UntilThen

@attmci  you must have a lot of tubes. What tube amp do you have?

I have the short bottle 7N7 btw. Never got around to buying a tall bottle. Too many tubes already.


----------



## attmci (Apr 22, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> @attmci  you must have a lot of tubes. What tube amp do you have?
> 
> I have the short bottle 7N7 btw. Never got around to buying a tall bottle. Too many tubes already.



I am very poor. Don't have fancy amp like yours. LOL


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I am very poor. Don't have fancy amp like you. LOL



The last I heard your address is Mars A Lago so don't tell me you are poor.

Anyhoo this is my Axis Voicebox S setup driven by the most powerful Redgum amp and with the Rega RP8 providing the needle fix. How is it I prefer my headphone setup? I must have gotten used to wearing headphones. It's closeting my head with music.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Thanks Joe.
> 
> Here she is...




Very nice Arnold


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Pictures.



Beautiful pictures as always. I had a B36 escape me in an eBay bid while I was walking the dogs. I can't wait to try out the tubes in the OTL.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Beautiful pictures as always. I had a B36 escape me in an eBay bid while I was walking the dogs. I can't wait to try out the tubes in the OTL.



Thank you. Half of my pictures were taken with a Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge. Only the night shots were captured by a cheap Nikon slr. If I had a Leica, I would have been Michelangelo. 

I've lost many auctions. I mean I won the ECC33 only to lose it in the mail. Then it was found again 2 weeks later. Now this ECC33 is an important tube. Stavros, in his humble opinion, told me that the ECC33 is the best sounding driver.


----------



## 2359glenn

Most if not all the loctal tubes in the US were made by Sylvania so your 7N7 is a Sylvania 6SN7 and the 14N7 is a Sylvania 12SN7.
And Philco loved to use them in there radios.


----------



## gibosi (Apr 22, 2018)

As Glenn notes, the vast majority of 7N7 were manufactured by Sylvania. However, once in a while you will run across a National Union. Typically, on the Sylvania, the chrome top covers about 1/3 of the bottle. And on the NU, round plates are visible just above the bottom mica spacer. These are early tall bottles. I don't believe I have ever seen a later NU with a short bottle.


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> I am very poor. Don't have fancy amp like you. LOL



Not so expensive the basic model is $750 only 2 output tube sockets but sounds the same as the one with all the sockets.


----------



## wazzupi

@2359glenn could you provide a list of next in line if it's not too much to ask ?


----------



## 2359glenn (Apr 22, 2018)

I will not do that maybe some people don't want to be mentioned.
You have to realize I am not a manufacture a little slow. Have a full time job and stage 4 cancer only build amps after work when I can.
Some days I can't do anything after work. Have patience it will get done.


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> I will not do that maybe some people don't want to be mentioned.
> You have to realize I am not a manufacture a little slow. Have a full time job and stage 4 cancer only build amps after work when I can.
> Some days I can't do anything after work. Have patience it will get done.



Take care Glenn and I'm really appreciative for the work which you have put in to build my GL3N. Can't wait for it to reach me!


----------



## wazzupi

2359glenn said:


> I will not do that maybe some people don't want to be mentioned.
> You have to realize I am not a manufacture a little slow. Have a full time job and stage 4 cancer only build amps after work when I can.
> Some days I can't do anything after work. Have patience it will get done.



I appreciate the answer, thank you.


----------



## felix3650

2359glenn said:


> I will not do that maybe some people don't want to be mentioned.
> You have to realize I am not a manufacture a little slow. Have a full time job and stage 4 cancer only build amps after work when I can.
> Some days I can't do anything after work. Have patience it will get done.


Stage 4 cancer... man I'm sorry for you


----------



## 2359glenn

felix3650 said:


> Stage 4 cancer... man I'm sorry for you


Actually the chemotherapy drug is worse then anything kicks my ass but keeps me alive.


----------



## 2359glenn

4:30am piece and quiet listening to the new EL3N amp . Love the sound of EL3N tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

I'll toast you. It's 6:58pm. After work, showered and had dinner. Listening to my favourite head-fi setup using Eikon. Life's good.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> 4:30am piece and quiet listening to the new EL3N amp . Love the sound of EL3N tubes.



I'm going to get the EL3N amp at some point. Really intrigued with it. 

Glenn, what's the rationale for the bigger chassis? Is it because it's also a speaker amp.


----------



## felix3650

2359glenn said:


> 4:30am piece and quiet listening to the new EL3N amp . Love the sound of EL3N tubes.



Chemiotherapy is devastating... Someone I know went through it and literaly lost her hair... 

What's the difference between the OTL and the EL3N? I mean between their sound signatures and/or power output.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I'm going to get the EL3N amp at some point. Really intrigued with it.
> 
> Glenn, what's the rationale for the bigger chassis? Is it because it's also a speaker amp.



Yes the larger chassis is to accommodate the 20 pole switch to switch impedance. The Lundahl output transformers are a pain to do multiple output impedances.
Each transformer has 8 secondary windings that get hooked in parallel and or series to create all the output impedances.
2 ohm 4 ohm 8 ohm 16 ohm 32 ohm and 120 ohm a real pain to do this and requires a large switch with many wires hooked to it.


----------



## 2359glenn

felix3650 said:


> Chemiotherapy is devastating... Someone I know went through it and literaly lost her hair...
> 
> What's the difference between the OTL and the EL3N? I mean between their sound signatures and/or power output.



The OTL has no output transformers the tubes go direct to the phones.
EL3N has output transformers and has lower output impedance. Both amps sound good to me the EL3N amp sounds more like a amp
that uses the #45 or PX4 output tubes if you ever heard one of those.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> The OTL has no output transformers the tubes go direct to the phones.
> EL3N has output transformers and has lower output impedance. Both amps sound good to me the EL3N amp sounds more like a amp
> that uses the #45 or PX4 output tubes if you ever heard one of those.



Does it have the almost unreal fat midrange Glenn?
I'm also keen with the same magic on my hd650


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> Not so expensive the basic model is $750 only 2 output tube sockets but sounds the same as the one with all the sockets.




Glenn..you have me intrigued. What tubes are used for your basic model? I enjoy tubes but don't really like the hassle of rolling too many combination of tubes..


----------



## 2359glenn

jekjek said:


> Does it have the almost unreal fat midrange Glenn?
> I'm also keen with the same magic on my hd650



The EL3N amp has the same magic as a direct heated triode amp.
And the benefit of using the same tube as driver and output is the two tubes will have the same distortion. 
The distortion from the driver is 180 deg out of phase from the output they will cancel each other out better.


----------



## felix3650

2359glenn said:


> The OTL has no output transformers the tubes go direct to the phones.
> EL3N has output transformers and has lower output impedance. Both amps sound good to me the EL3N amp sounds more like a amp
> that uses the #45 or PX4 output tubes if you ever heard one of those.


Unfortunately I've never heard those tubes. I'm new to tube rolling. The only audio experience I have is the Kenzie. I can guess that the EL3N has more output power


----------



## 2359glenn

Rossliew said:


> Glenn..you have me intrigued. What tubes are used for your basic model? I enjoy tubes but don't really like the hassle of rolling too many combination of tubes..



It normally has 4 tubes a rectifier 3DG4 or 5U4 type 6SN7 driver and two 6AS7 or one of the equivalents for the output.
But can be made with 3 tubes and use a HEXFRED SS rectifier.


----------



## 2359glenn

felix3650 said:


> Unfortunately I've never heard those tubes. I'm new to tube rolling. The only audio experience I have is the Kenzie. I can guess that the EL3N has more output power



The EL3N will have more output power to low impedance cans.
If you have high impedance cans the OTL is the best way to go for the price.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> The EL3N will have more output power to low impedance cans.
> If you have high impedance cans the OTL is the best way to go for the price.



What is the case dimension for GEL3N?


----------



## UntilThen (Apr 23, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> It normally has 4 tubes a rectifier 3DG4 or 5U4 type 6SN7 driver and two 6AS7 or one of the equivalents for the output.
> But can be made with 3 tubes and use a HEXFRED SS rectifier.



This would be an incredible value $750 OTL amp. Having heard what a single 6sn7 and 2 6as7 can sound like in GOTL, I would recommend this over any other competitor OTL amps out there. Add in the 6 / 12 / 25 volt switch and the choice of drivers would be numerous, cheap and good.

However, my present tubes of Marconi B36 and 6 x 6bx7gt is so quiet and incredible sounding, I wouldn't have it any other way.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> It normally has 4 tubes a rectifier 3DG4 or 5U4 type 6SN7 driver and two 6AS7 or one of the equivalents for the output.
> But can be made with 3 tubes and use a HEXFRED SS rectifier.



Nice. I have some 6SN7s and 6AS7s for my Elise. I have some EL3Ns and a pair of C3Gs as well. Possible to build an OTL using the EL3Ns and the C3G?


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> This would be an incredible value $750 OTL amp. Having heard what a single 6sn7 and 2 6as7 can sound like in GOTL, I would recommend this over any other competitor OTL amps out there. Add in the 6 / 12 / 25 volt switch and the choice of drivers would be numerous, cheap and good.
> 
> However, my present tubes of Marconi B36 and 6 x 6bx7gt is so quiet and incredible sounding, I wouldn't have it any other way.



That volt switch is a very good option to have...so does a single 6SN7 and a pair of 6AS7s


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The EL3N amp has the same magic as a direct heated triode amp.
> And the benefit of using the same tube as driver and output is the two tubes will have the same distortion.
> The distortion from the driver is 180 deg out of phase from the output they will cancel each other out better.



This article has a very favourable review of EL3N. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/1108/

I've obsessed for a long time running 6 x EL3N on Elise and have always wanted a properly design amp for the EL3N.


----------



## Rossliew

Just order the amp, Matt


----------



## yates7592

How does 2 x EL3N sound in the GOTL using a 6SN7>EL3N adapter?


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Possible to build an OTL using the EL3Ns and the C3G?



Glenn can build anything. Perhaps a pair of c3g driving 4 or 6 x EL3N power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> How does 2 x EL3N sound in the GOTL using a 6SN7>EL3N adapter?



I wouldn't be doing that on my GOTL. That would be ruining a Picasso. 

Besides I sold nearly all my EL3Ns and the double adapters to Ross.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Just order the amp, Matt



Some decision making process are not quite as simple as that. There's a lot of what ifs.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Some decision making process are not quite as simple as that. There's a lot of what ifs.



Maybe you could sell me the GOTL and there'd be less "what ifs"...


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Maybe you could sell me the GOTL and there'd be less "what ifs"...



No, just no. The GOTL is sacred now. Coupled with all the gold sucking vintage tubes that I have, it's even more sacred.


----------



## Rossliew

Hahahahahaha...i could not afford your holy grail tubes even if i wanted. Am listening to the Elise with 2x EL3N driving 4x EL3N powers...sounds delish!

Methinks an OTL with the EL3N tubes would be just perfect for my needs....lets see what @2359glenn says


----------



## UntilThen

Yates. haven't you tried the ECC32s on the GOTL yet? Go on, tell us how those holy gills sounds.


----------



## yates7592

UntilThen said:


> Yates. haven't you tried the ECC32s on the GOTL yet? Go on, tell us how those holy gills sounds.



Not yet no. I have got as far as Mullard ECC31, and it sounds mighty good - but only run with 6 x Fivre 6BX7 so far. I am however expecting very good music from the ECC32 though. All in good time. To be honest I've not had much time for serious headphone listening lately, just background over speakers whilst working. Need to get my life in correct order!


----------



## UntilThen

You got it all wrong. This is life's correct order.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

I was listening to the GOTL and this happened....


 
Thanks @2359glenn!!! Haha the GOTL has given me such happiness with music. 

P.S. I would share what song I was listening to when that happened but it’s too embarrassing... just know that it happened and it was ridiculous ha


----------



## 2359glenn

Rossliew said:


> Hahahahahaha...i could not afford your holy grail tubes even if i wanted. Am listening to the Elise with 2x EL3N driving 4x EL3N powers...sounds delish!
> 
> Methinks an OTL with the EL3N tubes would be just perfect for my needs....lets see what @2359glenn says



It would need 8 or 12  EL3Ns to work  craziness.


----------



## 2359glenn

bunnynamedfrank said:


> I was listening to the GOTL and this happened....
> 
> 
> Thanks @2359glenn!!! Haha the GOTL has given me such happiness with music.
> ...



Are you still using the original tubes?


----------



## wazzupi (Apr 23, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Are you still using the original tubes?


Lol ! Great response


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

2359glenn said:


> Are you still using the original tubes?


At that moment I had the original 1633 driver in, but I had 4 RCA 6bx7’s power tubes, and forget what rectifier was. This happened over the weekend and forgot to post it till now. 

I think the 6bx7’s are really good btw. You spoiled me Glenn with the noise floor of the original tubes though. The 6bx7’s were noticeably noisier.


----------



## 2359glenn (Apr 23, 2018)

bunnynamedfrank said:


> At that moment I had the original 1633 driver in, but I had 4 RCA 6bx7’s power tubes, and forget what rectifier was. This happened over the weekend and forgot to post it till now.
> 
> I think the 6bx7’s are really good btw. You spoiled me Glenn with the noise floor of the original tubes though. The 6bx7’s were noticeably noisier.



The Russian 6H13 are very quiet and don't sound bad for $6 each.
The 6H13 is really all I use hate noise.

You should have splurged and gotten the amp with the 6 output tube sockets.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Stavros, in his humble opinion, told me that the ECC33 is the best sounding driver.


I have always agreed with Stavros on this too.  My OTL never sounded better than it did than when I was testing one of his ECC33 for a short time.  The Marconi B65 might beat it in "magic" and perhaps in tone depending upon the user's taste, but it definitely can't beat the ECC33 for resolution and articulation.  The best US tubes are another rung down on the ladder from these two.

The problem is, unless you get lucky or have connections, a NOS ECC33 might well cost more than the amp itself, and maybe I'm just getting old and don't see the fun of it anymore but I just can't see the sense in that.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> 4:30am piece and quiet listening to the new EL3N amp . Love the sound of EL3N tubes.



We never did decide if these tubes are actually better than the 45.  Probably the truth is that they're just a different flavor of good and both have their merits.


----------



## yates7592

OK now we are talking......I'm listening to my favourite album ever (see avatar - 'This Heat' self titled 1979). I have heard this album so many times, but never sounding as organic, and rich, and spacious, as on my GOTL and HD800.  This record is the critically acclaimed missing link between 1970's prog/krautrock and 1980's post-punk. Not easy listening, but if you like your music on the edge and thought provoking, then you should take a listen, and you won't hear it better than on GOTL.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The EL3N amp has the same magic as a direct heated triode amp.
> And the benefit of using the same tube as driver and output is the two tubes will have the same distortion.
> The distortion from the driver is 180 deg out of phase from the output they will cancel each other out better.



The harmonics and distortion of the EL3N amp is wonderful....I guess because as you have explained the driver and output tubes are the same.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I have always agreed with Stavros on this too.  My OTL never sounded better than it did than when I was testing one of his ECC33 for a short time.  The Marconi B65 might beat it in "magic" and perhaps in tone depending upon the user's taste, but it definitely can't beat the ECC33 for resolution and articulation.  The best US tubes are another rung down on the ladder from these two.
> 
> The problem is, unless you get lucky or have connections, a NOS ECC33 might well cost more than the amp itself, and maybe I'm just getting old and don't see the fun of it anymore but I just can't see the sense in that.



I got lucky. Won mine in an ebay auction for half the price of what this is asking.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC33-MULL...rentrq:f448e4f91620a9cd74ca6509fffaeaae|iid:1

The seller from Australia was selling 2 but I needed only one.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> It would need 8 or 12  EL3Ns to work  craziness.



Well then is it possible to build such an amp with an OTL topology?


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> The harmonics and distortion of the EL3N amp is wonderful....I guess because as you have explained the driver and output tubes are the same.



I just keep getting more and more curious what a 10 Squared amp would sound like now..........


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> That would be like finding a unicorn.
> 
> I have not seen a 12SN7W before.



Not seen a 12SN7W either.  Early JAN 12SN7GT are plentiful, and inexpensive.  

Listening now to a JAN 12SN7GT  Ken-Rad that is exactly like its staggered plate 6 volt VT-231 cousin, paid less than 15.00 shipped for it, looks like it is brand new.   Sounds exactly like its expensive cousin.....bass city.


----------



## UntilThen

Quad Svetlana 6h13c have landed and quad ribbed eye juicy steak Fotons are on the way.

The sooner I get the EL3N amp the better. It will stop this tubes buying spree.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sylvania 6SN7W still better than others...every instrument lives in its own air and space.
Accept no substitute.  
Not a cheap tube, but worth the price of admission.


----------



## mordy

Does anybody have experience with the 2c50 tube?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Quad Svetlana 6h13c have landed and quad ribbed eye juicy steak Fotons are on the way.
> 
> The sooner I get the EL3N amp the better. It will stop this tubes buying spree.



But them tubes are cheep. The 6H13 best bang for the buck.
I love cheep tubes and the OTL sounds good with them.


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> But them tubes are cheep. The 6H13 best bang for the buck.
> I love cheep tubes and the OTL sounds good with them.



6h13 sound very good in OTL.
It is smooth and friendly on the treble

Btw i have pmed you Glenn


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> I just keep getting more and more curious what a 10 Squared amp would sound like now..........



You mean, like the Tango....by Larry Moore


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> But them tubes are cheep. The 6H13 best bang for the buck.
> I love cheep tubes and the OTL sounds good with them.



Probably the best value $40 I've spend on tubes. Love the impact of quad 6h13c but a pair is really quiet. So much so I'm using c3g with 6h13c now and loving it.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

The source you would recommend for 6h13 tubes? The only source I fund on web is http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6AS7-Tube-Types/Russian-6AS7G-6H13C

. If I am getting the 6 tube configuration on my OTL I can use 4 of these at one time or 6 ? 

Is this price good for these tubes? 

2359glenn you say this a  great  tube setup that is quiet and sounds awesome ? Is there  any  better source for these tubes ?  
What would be a great power tube to go with this combination ? 

Thanks to a new tubie and will be waiting patiently for my OTL .

Rick


----------



## 2359glenn

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N13S-6...169805?hash=item33e835c40d:g:s08AAOxyTjNSoHJD


----------



## 2359glenn

FunctionalDoc said:


> The source you would recommend for 6h13 tubes? The only source I fund on web is http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6AS7-Tube-Types/Russian-6AS7G-6H13C
> 
> . If I am getting the 6 tube configuration on my OTL I can use 4 of these at one time or 6 ?
> 
> ...



You can only use 4 of them even though it has 6 sockets due to the amount of filament current they draw.

$25 is to much for that tube


----------



## leftside

@2359glenn Any particular year/decade for the 6H13C? 1950's/1960's/1970's/1980's/etc or all about the same?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N13S-6...169805?hash=item33e835c40d:g:s08AAOxyTjNSoHJD



This is where I got my quad but they are down to a last pair now. There are a lot on ebay but selling in pairs only. 

Here's 6. 
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Six-6N1...152775065534?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> @2359glenn Any particular year/decade for the 6H13C? 1950's/1960's/1970's/1980's/etc or all about the same?



I think they are all the same. 

This is the first time I'm listening to Glenn's stock tubes using LCD-2f. RCA 1633 and a pair of Svetlana 6h13c. It's a pretty good tone and quiet too. The OTL signature tone is still ever present. 6h13c compared to 6bx7gt is lusher and airier. A good contrast.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

*A good source  to purchase *
Siemens C3G /



UntilThen said:


> This is where I got my quad but they are down to a last pair now. There are a lot on ebay but selling in pairs only.
> 
> Here's 6.
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Six-6N1...152775065534?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10


Thanks I just bought 6 of these tubes for my upcoming OTL . With shipping $66 from the UK .


----------



## UntilThen

Got my c3g from this seller. Gleaming new tubes with gold pins. You probably can get cheaper elsewhere.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-x-Mat...m=332261456287&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Or you can try these Lorenz and tell me how these ancient embossed ones sound. Gibosi mention this several times.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lorenz-...m=272761734052&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Apr 24, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Got my c3g from this seller. Gleaming new tubes with gold pins. You probably can get cheaper elsewhere.
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-x-Matched-Pair-2-Tubes-C3g-Gold-Pins-Siemens-NOS-NIB-German-Valve-Tubes/332261456287?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=20140106155344&meid=08329760f7444583bd0d3ab3757944e1&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=12&sd=323052792600&itm=332261456287&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
> 
> Or you can try these Lorenz and tell me how these ancient embossed ones sound. Gibosi mention this several times.
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lorenz-C3g-preamp-tubes-dual-triode-NOS-300B-driver-tu-11/272761734052?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=20140106155344&meid=e695863d107e468eb4af18630aa5f25c&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=12&sd=332261456287&itm=272761734052&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


Thanks ,bought from the first supplier in Germany . $126.00 for a pair. These tubes are little challenging to obtain but if they last 10,000 hours that will be awesome . I will be using 4 of Svetlana 6h13c when I get OTL form Glenn  in end of June or July.


----------



## UntilThen

But a change of driver to ECC33 and 2 worlds collide. 

Expensive driver with cheap power tubes. SQ jump through the roof. May this driver live forever. Smooth and very detail. Rarely does a tube does that.

Congrats @FunctionalDoc on your upcoming OTL amp and sorry Glenn for giving you more work.


----------



## UntilThen

One pair of my Svetlana 6h13c has some static noise. So here I'm mixing 2 x Svetlana 6h13c and 2 x RCA 6as7g. Perfect. Quiet. Nothing like quiet tubes and this blend of different power tubes is very nice.

I much prefer using quad 6as7 than a pair. Tone is more full on and impactful.


----------



## attmci (Apr 24, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> One pair of my Svetlana 6h13c has some static noise. So here I'm mixing 2 x Svetlana 6h13c and 2 x RCA 6as7g. Perfect. Quiet. Nothing like quiet tubes and this blend of different power tubes is very nice.
> 
> I much prefer using quad 6as7 than a pair. Tone is more full on and impactful.


Drop the noisy tube to the ground will cure it for sure.






























I mean clean the pins. Lol.


----------



## JazzVinyl

6SN7W and 5998



.


----------



## UntilThen (Apr 24, 2018)

I drop the 6h13c on the ground and it bounce up. 

It's a holiday - Anzac Day. So a little treat for myself. An all Gec combo. Thanks Glenn for a very lovely sounding amp. The tubes are nothing but this OTL sure makes them. The euphony. It's beyond goosebumps.

Gec B36, Gec 6080 & Gec 6as7g


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> 6SN7W and 5998



Yeah, killer combo.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Lightly snowing outside as darkness approaches. 

Will Benard (Elec Guitar extrodinaire) entertains vis his album “Party Hats”


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I drop the 6h13c on the ground and it bounce up.
> 
> It's a holiday - Anzac Day. So a little treat for myself. An all Gec combo. Thanks Glenn for a very lovely sounding amp. The tubes are nothing but this OTL sure makes them. The euphony. It's beyond goosebumps.
> 
> Gec B36, Gec 6080 & Gec 6as7g



Nice! All GEC - gotta love it.  
And plus 1 on: “thanks to Glenn” - he is a national treasure!!

Anzac day?


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> I drop the 6h13c on the ground and it bounce up.
> 
> It's a holiday - Anzac Day. So a little treat for myself. An all Gec combo. Thanks Glenn for a very lovely sounding amp. The tubes are nothing but this OTL sure makes them. The euphony. It's beyond goosebumps.
> 
> Gec B36, Gec 6080 & Gec 6as7g


You're running a pair of 6080's AND a pair of 6AS7G's at the same time? Didn't know you could do that. I've also ordered some GEC 6080 today and I already have a pair of GEC 6AS7G. The former are not exactly cheap, and the latter are darn expensive these days!


----------



## UntilThen

Anzac is Australia and New Zealand Army Corps. They fought in the Battle of Gallipoli in WWI.... 

and Glenn the national treasure should start a factory building these amps.


----------



## lukeap69

leftside said:


> You're running a pair of 6080's AND a pair of 6AS7G's at the same time? Didn't know you could do that. I've also ordered some GEC 6080 today and I already have a pair of GEC 6AS7G. The former are not exactly cheap, and the latter are darn expensive these days!



Nice. The GEC 6AS7Gs are still my favourite power slightly edging TS 5998 and 6BX7's. I mean it is difficult to point which tubes are really the best on Glenn's OTL amp because I cannot make my Darna sound bad unless the tube is noisy. She sounds good whatever tubes I roll.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Anzac is Australia and New Zealand Army Corps. They fought in the Battle of Gallipoli in WWI....
> 
> and Glenn the national treasure should start a factory building these amps.



Yeah for Australia and its brave soldiers.  

The scarcity of the Glenn...adds its its mystique 
And yes....an all GEC compliment of tubes = $$$

Spendable cash seems to come easy to you, Matt.  More power to ya.  

.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> You're running a pair of 6080's AND a pair of 6AS7G's at the same time? Didn't know you could do that. I've also ordered some GEC 6080 today and I already have a pair of GEC 6AS7G. The former are not exactly cheap, and the latter are darn expensive these days!



Mate, of course you can mix Gec 6080 with Gec 6as7g. The resultant tone makes me hug myself. Darn expensive these NOS tubes which I got way before I had GOTL. I blew serious $$$ on these tubes.

Go on, buy yourself a GEC B36 from Langrex now.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Spendable cash seems to come easy to you, Matt. More power to ya.



I got lucky. I was basking and singing and the people love what I sing and started throwing coins into my hat !!!


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Mate, of course you can mix Gec 6080 with Gec 6as7g. The resultant tone makes me hug myself. Darn expensive these NOS tubes which I got way before I had GOTL. I blew serious $$$ on these tubes.
> 
> Go on, buy yourself a GEC B36 from Langrex now.


I already have one  Also bought the Marconi one that was on eBay a few weeks ago. Expensive - but much cheaper than the B65's that I have...


----------



## attmci

_


UntilThen said:



			I drop the 6h13c on the ground and it bounce up. 

Click to expand...

_


UntilThen said:


> You shouldn't stop there.
> 
> It's a holiday - Anzac Day. So a little treat for myself. An all Gec combo. Thanks Glenn for a very lovely sounding amp. The tubes are nothing but this OTL sure makes them. The euphony. It's beyond goosebumps.
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Nice. The GEC 6AS7Gs are still my favourite power slightly edging TS 5998 and 6BX7's. I mean it is difficult to point which tubes are really the best on Glenn's OTL amp because I cannot make my Darna sound bad unless the tube is noisy. She sounds good whatever tubes I roll.



Exactly right. Too hard to pick the best sounding combo. There are so many good ones. Which is what makes me love this OTL amp.

I haven't shown you my russian combo.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I got lucky. I was basking and singing and the people love what I sing and started throwing coins into my hat !!!



Uh-huh 

Funny, most musicians I know were not audiophiles.  A crummy cassette deck perfectly suited thier music reproduction needs....


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I already have one  Also bought the Marconi one that was on eBay a few weeks ago. Expensive - but much cheaper than the B65's that I have...



Leftside, you are buying all the good B36. Now show me photos of the Gec and Marconi B36s. I'm jelly now.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Leftside, you are buying all the good B36. Now show me photos of the Gec and Marconi B36s. I'm jelly now.


Do you know he has tons of ECC3x??????


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Do you know he has tons of ECC3x??????



I know. He egged me on to buy the ECC33 and I'm resisting buying the ECC35. One of these days, I'll have to PM Stavros for the ECC35.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Leftside, you are buying all the good B36. Now show me photos of the Gec and Marconi B36s. I'm jelly now.


You’ll have to wait until I get a GOTL otherwise they will look “naked”


----------



## UntilThen

I didn't know what this means until I google translate it.

_Sie benötigen sechs von GEC 6as7g_

attmci !!!


----------



## Sound Trooper

My Glenn EL3N has finally been built and I believe that Glenn would be sending it out soon. I can't wait for it to arrive so that I can start enjoying the sweet sweet Glenn EL3N sound.

I have sent the Auteur back to ZMF as the right driver failed, I hope to have it back when the EL3N reaches me. In the meantime, I still have the Abyss, LCD-2 & HD6XX to play with.

PS: I also have a Atticus (rusted zebra) on order and I hope to have it with me before end April.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> My Glenn EL3N has finally been built and I believe that Glenn would be sending it out soon. I can't wait for it to arrive so that I can start enjoying the sweet sweet Glenn EL3N sound.
> 
> I have sent the Auteur back to ZMF as the right driver failed, I hope to have it back when the EL3N reaches me. In the meantime, I still have the Abyss, LCD-2 & HD6XX to play with.
> 
> PS: I also have a Atticus (rusted zebra) on order and I hope to have it with me before end April.



Nice. When I come to Singapore in August, I'll self invite myself for a listen.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> Nice. When I come to Singapore in August, I'll self invite myself for a listen.



Sure! Drop me a PM when you are in town


----------



## jekjek

Sound Infinity said:


> Sure! Drop me a PM when you are in town



Glenn clan is getting stronger in singapore. Can i also join to listen GEL3N?


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> Sure! Drop me a PM when you are in town



Thanks I will. I'm in Spore for 4 days before heading to Taiwan.


----------



## wazzupi

Sound Infinity said:


> My Glenn EL3N has finally been built and I believe that Glenn would be sending it out soon. I can't wait for it to arrive so that I can start enjoying the sweet sweet Glenn EL3N sound.
> 
> I have sent the Auteur back to ZMF as the right driver failed, I hope to have it back when the EL3N reaches me. In the meantime, I still have the Abyss, LCD-2 & HD6XX to play with.
> 
> PS: I also have a Atticus (rusted zebra) on order and I hope to have it with me before end April.


More i think about it atticus makes sense with the zebra wood i might order one or an hd800.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Exactly right. Too hard to pick the best sounding combo. There are so many good ones. Which is what makes me love this OTL amp.
> 
> I haven't shown you my russian combo.



Russian combo? Now that would be interesting. Which of your drivers are Russian?


----------



## lukeap69

jekjek said:


> Glenn clan is getting stronger in singapore. Can i also join to listen GEL3N?


Speaking of Singapore, any news on @jelt2359 ultimate Glenn's amp?


----------



## jekjek

lukeap69 said:


> Speaking of Singapore, any news on @jelt2359 ultimate Glenn's amp?


Not that i know of

Maybe he is busy


----------



## Sound Trooper

jekjek said:


> Glenn clan is getting stronger in singapore. Can i also join to listen GEL3N?



Sure.. why not? Are you also from Singapore?



wazzupi said:


> More i think about it atticus makes sense with the zebra wood i might order one or an hd800.



Atticus in rusted zebra looks mighty fine! I'll post some pictures when my set arrives.


----------



## jekjek

Sound Infinity said:


> Sure.. why not? Are you also from Singapore?
> 
> 
> 
> Atticus in rusted zebra looks mighty fine! I'll post some pictures when my set arrives.



Yes, from singapore also
I shall PM you 

Thank you


----------



## UntilThen (Apr 25, 2018)

Sound Infinity said:


> Atticus in rusted zebra looks mighty fine! I'll post some pictures when my set arrives.



How about Atticus in Padauk? 

Atticus with ECC33 + 2 x Cetron 7236 + 2 x Tung Sol 5998 sounds amazing.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> How about Atticus in Padauk?



Padauk looks sexy as well!


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> How about Atticus in Padauk?
> 
> Atticus with ECC33 + 2 x Cetron 7236 + 2 x Tung Sol 5998 sounds amazing.



You know, I've started collecting the pics you post along with descriptions on tube combos  
You can sue me later but in the mean time keep them coming!


----------



## jelt2359

lukeap69 said:


> Speaking of Singapore, any news on @jelt2359 ultimate Glenn's amp?



Hopefully the trafos arrive this year is what I told Glenn, heh.


----------



## lukeap69

Still waiting for the transformers? Are they like winding one rev per day? 

Glad to hear from you again.


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> You know, I've started collecting the pics you post along with descriptions on tube combos
> You can sue me later but in the mean time keep them coming!



As of this point in time, there are 3 combinations that I consider the sexist of them all. Here they are in no order of preference.

1. Gec B36 > Gec 6080 + Gec 6as7g
2. Mullard ECC33 > Cetron 7236 + Tung Sol 5998
3. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base > 6 x 6bx7gt

Have you ordered the GOTL yet? or you still deciding.


----------



## whirlwind

jelt2359 said:


> Hopefully the trafos arrive this year is what I told Glenn, heh.




Wow, these are taking a long time, hopefully they will be worth the wait.


----------



## 2359glenn

jelt2359 said:


> Hopefully the trafos arrive this year is what I told Glenn, heh.



Getting crazy now it has been over a year.
They better sound better then Lundahl to put up with this wait.


----------



## UntilThen

I love Lundahl.  I love Eikon and Atticus on the OTL amp. These 300 ohms dynamic headphones are a perfect match with this amp.

Well it's a day of listening to 3 of the most beautiful sounding combinations IMHO. Ending with Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x Sylvania 6BL7gta. That's right using 6BL7 this time. They are as superb as 6BX7. Louder naturally but with a 6sn7 driver, there's lots of volume to play with. This combination leaves me breathless. Such beautiful music from Atticus.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> As of this point in time, there are 3 combinations that I consider the sexist of them all. Here they are in no order of preference.
> 
> 1. Gec B36 > Gec 6080 + Gec 6as7g
> 2. Mullard ECC33 > Cetron 7236 + Tung Sol 5998
> ...


Nope not yet. Some "technical" stuff to take care of first  



UntilThen said:


> I love Lundahl.  I love Eikon and Atticus on the OTL amp. These 300 ohms dynamic headphones are a perfect match with this amp.
> 
> Well it's a day of listening to 3 of the most beautiful sounding combinations IMHO. Ending with Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x Sylvania 6BL7gta. That's right using 6BL7 this time. They are as superb as 6BX7. Louder naturally but with a 6sn7 driver, there's lots of volume to play with. This combination leaves me breathless. Such beautiful music from Atticus.


How much does a Sylvania 6SN7W cost? I see some of them on ebay but they go around 299 for a pair. I don't know if it's a fair price.


----------



## JazzVinyl

felix3650 said:


> Nope not yet. Some "technical" stuff to take care of first
> How much does a Sylvania 6SN7W cost? I see some of them on ebay but they go around 299 for a pair. I don't know if it's a fair price.



Last few I bought - have been $45,00 to $50,00 each.  Save a search for them and be patient.


----------



## wazzupi

JazzVinyl said:


> Last few I bought - have been $45,00 to $50,00 each.  Save a search for them and be patient.


Sylvania 6SN7W metal base ?


----------



## felix3650

JazzVinyl said:


> Last few I bought - have been $45,00 to $50,00 each.  Save a search for them and be patient.


Thanks! Is there much difference between metal base and a "normal" base? Seems the metal base variants are more rare


----------



## rnros

felix3650 said:


> Thanks! Is there much difference between metal base and a "normal" base? Seems the metal base variants are more rare



Have not heard the SYL 6SN7W metal base, but IME, the brown/black base does not perform above the better 6SN7.
Langrex had recently sold the metal base for about $250, the brown base for $45, both NOS. So that speaks to either rarity or performance, or both.
Don't overlook the C3g, Mullard ECC31, and FIVRE 6N7G. All great drivers, usually listen to one of those three.


----------



## 2359glenn

I have to disconnect @Sound Infinity EL3N amp going to miss it. Have been using it since last weekend.
Mostly with speakers sounds good on the speakers just not a lot of power but nice sound. I don't listen
loud much anymore.
It really makes my closed back phones sound good never really  liked them on the OTL but the 
EL3N makes them sing.
Just no time to build one for myself or I would have one by now.


----------



## UntilThen

Both 6sn7w metal base and black base are great but before I put too much emphasis on 6sn7w and make everyone buy out the world's last remaining 6sn7w, I want to put some perspective in tube buying.

1. You start slow and enjoy tubes at the cheaper end. If you're just getting into tubes, even a Sylvania 6sn7gtb will sound great to you. Or any of the 6sn7gtb. These are the garden variety. They are cheaper and can be bought NOS. Seriously they do sound very good. Try the different brands, Tung Sol, Raytheon, Hytron, RCA. They all have different unique sound.

2. An important consideration for me is the tubes have to be quiet in combination with the power tubes used. In my inventory, I know which driver tubes are dead quiet with 6 x 6BL7, so naturally I love them and talk about them. Now I notice that some of the cheaper Fotons are quiet too.

3. There are other superb drivers in my inventory that are quiet with 6 x 6BL7. Rnros mention Mullard ECC31. Not a cheap tube but this is very good with 6 x 6BL7.

4. Lastly the drivers that are noisy with 6 x 6BL7, are quiet with my 6as7 / 6080 / 5998. As have been pointed out earlier, 6BL7 have higher gain and amplify noise more. So don't toss away those drivers.

Now a joke. One day I put on my selected tubes, power on the amp and waited 5 minutes. DEAD QUIET. I could not believe my luck. Then I started the music and no sound. I had not plug in the headphone jack.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I have to disconnect @Sound Infinity EL3N amp going to miss it. Have been using it since last weekend.
> Mostly with speakers sounds good on the speakers just not a lot of power but nice sound. I don't listen
> loud much anymore.
> It really makes my closed back phones sound good never really  liked them on the OTL but the
> ...



If the designer likes a particular amp, it's time to pay attention.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> If the designer likes a particular amp, it's time to pay attention.



More to the point, time to get in line.


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> I have to disconnect @Sound Infinity EL3N amp going to miss it. Have been using it since last weekend.
> Mostly with speakers sounds good on the speakers just not a lot of power but nice sound. I don't listen
> loud much anymore.
> It really makes my closed back phones sound good never really  liked them on the OTL but the
> ...



@Sound Infinity Congrats man! Release the pool noodles and show us the drool worthy GEL3N amp when you receive it!


----------



## attmci

rnros said:


> Have not heard the SYL 6SN7W metal base, but IME, the brown/black base does not perform above the better 6SN7.
> Langrex had recently sold the metal base for about $250, the brown base for $45, both NOS. So that speaks to either rarity or performance, or both.
> Don't overlook the C3g, Mullard ECC31, and FIVRE 6N7G. All great drivers, usually listen to one of those three.


The brown base one could be a 6sn7wgt.


----------



## rnros (Apr 25, 2018)

attmci said:


> The brown base one could be a 6sn7wgt.



Yes, they are both the GT version, which is designation for Glass Tube format.
Edit: Triode placement is the same for both, opposing triodes with separate free-standing support rod.

Later design placed the triodes in an angled orientation, with support rod design simplified by placing the anode plate rods directly over two of the pins, appears to be no break between pin and anode support rods. Clever. Not sure how they accomplished that, since the triode/mica assembly was usually attached after completion to the glass button/pin base.


----------



## UntilThen

I have a pair of the 6sn7wgt brown base that I've not tried it on the GOTL yet.


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> I have to disconnect @Sound Infinity EL3N amp going to miss it. Have been using it since last weekend.
> Mostly with speakers sounds good on the speakers just not a lot of power but nice sound. I don't listen
> loud much anymore.
> It really makes my closed back phones sound good never really  liked them on the OTL but the
> ...



Thanks again Glenn for building such a wonderful amp! Now what’s left is the smalll matter of shipping it to me... 



Phantaminum said:


> @Sound Infinity Congrats man! Release the pool noodles and show us the drool worthy GEL3N amp when you receive it!



I will definitely do so! Stay tuned...


----------



## JazzVinyl

wazzupi said:


> Sylvania 6SN7W metal base ?



Mine are black base, but I promise...the glued on base,  does NOT make the sound


----------



## jekjek

2359glenn said:


> I have to disconnect @Sound Infinity EL3N amp going to miss it. Have been using it since last weekend.
> Mostly with speakers sounds good on the speakers just not a lot of power but nice sound. I don't listen
> loud much anymore.
> It really makes my closed back phones sound good never really  liked them on the OTL but the
> ...



Thank you to @2359glenn  for making this awesome amp.

Congratulations to @Sound Infinity for his new amp. Definitely will have a lot of fun with this


----------



## Sound Trooper

jekjek said:


> Thank you to @2359glenn  for making this awesome amp.
> 
> Congratulations to @Sound Infinity for his new amp. Definitely will have a lot of fun with this



Thanks! Let's gather to compare notes on the GOTL and GEL3N.


----------



## mordy

What should I look for in trying to get the right Sylvania 6SN7W? Year of manufacture? Color of base? 
Are there rebranded ones, and if so, which brands?
Which ones are likely to cost less?


----------



## UntilThen

Only Sylvania makes the 6sn7w. Sound differences are documented in the 6sn7 reference thread and having both the metal base and the black base, I agree with their assessments.

In short both are very good and the black base is cheaper.


----------



## attmci

rnros said:


> Yes, they are both the GT version, which is designation for Glass Tube format.
> Edit: Triode placement is the same for both, opposing triodes with separate free-standing support rod.
> 
> Later design placed the triodes in an angled orientation, with support rod design simplified by placing the anode plate rods directly over two of the pins, appears to be no break between pin and anode support rods. Clever. Not sure how they accomplished that, since the triode/mica assembly was usually attached after completion to the glass button/pin base.


Thanks. But those are not consider as a 6sn7w.


----------



## gibosi

There are three versions of the Sylvania 6SN7W, short and tall with black base and tall with metal base. Further, there are two versions of the short one, those with the bottom mica below the top of the base (the most common) and those with the bottom mica above the top of the base (fairly rare). Note that all have the extra support rod and the umbrella-like spokes descending down from the top mica. I find these tubes to sound very similar and highly recommend any of them.

Typically, the metal-base version is the one most people know and want, and therefore it usually goes for big bucks. The other two are much more affordable.




On top, they will be labeled 6SN7W or 6SN7A. From everything I have read, the "A" and "W" versions are identical.


----------



## attmci (Apr 25, 2018)

gibosi said:


> There are three versions of the Sylvania 6SN7W, short and tall with black base and tall with metal base. Further, there are two versions of the short one, those with the bottom mica below the top of the base (the most common) and those with the bottom mica above the top of the base (fairly rare). Note that all have the extra support rod and the umbrella-like spokes descending down from the top mica. I find these tubes to sound very similar and highly recommend any of them.
> 
> Typically, the metal-base version is the one most people know and want, and therefore it usually goes for big bucks. The other two are much more affordable.
> 
> ...


I won't recommend them. Too expensive. LOL

And many said the SQ degraded quickly from NOS to used. And....many of the NOS on the east bay are used. Unless they have the original box. There is only one guy has tons of these tubes (all three or four types).

This is the guy: https://www.ebay.com/usr/rcatube?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754

He had also been caught once for selling used-NOS tube.


----------



## gibosi (Apr 25, 2018)

attmci said:


> I won't recommend them. Too expensive. LOL
> 
> And many said the SQ degraded quickly from NOS to used. And....many of the NOS on the east bay are used. Unless they have the original box. There is only one guy has tons of these tubes (all three or four types).
> 
> ...



Yeah, people say lots of things... lol...

Do you have any experience with this tube?

I have two metal-base, five short black base and one tall black base, some new and some used. And to my ears they all sound great.

Of course, everyone has to decide how much he(she) is willing to spend on any particular tube. As for me, I am very patient and never pay top dollar. So again, if you can find these tubes at a price you are willing to pay, I highly recommend them.


----------



## attmci (Apr 25, 2018)

gibosi said:


> Yeah, people say lots of things... lol...
> 
> Do you have any experience with this tube?
> 
> ...



Ken, they want the one in your previous avatar.


----------



## gibosi

Yes, this is one of my "new" ones. Because the metal band split, I got it cheap! lol


----------



## attmci (Apr 25, 2018)

mordy said:


> What should I look for in trying to get the right Sylvania 6SN7W? Year of manufacture? Color of base?
> Are there rebranded ones, and if so, which brands?
> Which ones are likely to cost less?


Dear Mordy, these are very early 6sn7s produced in 1940s. The cheapest NIB is $88 for the most popular short bottles. Matt has a couple of those and love them. So he spent probably over  $180 for a nos metal base 6sn7w.
Used ones can be found at much cheaper price. If you're lucky like Ken, you can get them close to $20


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Dear Mordy, these are very early 6sn7s produced in 1940s. The cheapest NIB is $88 for the most popular short bottles. Matt has a couple of those and love them. So he spent probably over  $180 for a nos metal base 6sn7w.
> Used ones can be found at much cheaper price. If you're lucky like Ken, you can get them close to $20


Thanks for all the good advice and information. Now I need a class at 6SN7A/W Sylvania University about how to identify the rebranded ones - if I am not mistaken Gibosi's tube is a Delco.
So any brand that says 6SN7W or 6SN7A must be a Sylvania?


----------



## gibosi

Yes, both my metals are rebrands: Delco and Philco. In terms of the metal ones, no other tube looks like the Sylvania 6SN7W. In terms of the short bottles, the 6SN7GT and some of the early 6SN7GTA Sylvania chrome domes look very similar to the short bottle 6SN7W. However, they do not have the extra support rod and they do not have 6SN7W or 6SN7A etched into the top.

Raytheon also manufactured a 6SN7W. However, it looks significantly different than the Sylvania.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Yeah, people say lots of things... lol...
> 
> Do you have any experience with this tube?
> 
> ...



All of mine have been black base, short bottle and agree with gibosi, sound quite wonderful.  
They make something special of the soundstage that other tubes do not seem to be able to match, quite as elegantly, or with as much finesse.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Thanks for all the good advice and information. Now I need a class at 6SN7A/W Sylvania University about how to identify the rebranded ones - if I am not mistaken Gibosi's tube is a Delco.
> So any brand that says 6SN7W or 6SN7A must be a Sylvania?



Mordy, if you spend $45.00 to $50.00 on a good short bottle black base 6SN7W....you won't regret it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The included 1633 RCA grey glass that is included with Glenn's GOTL is a mighty fine tube in its own right, Mordy. Your going to like it.
I am listening to it now, with 6x 6BL7's....

Awfully good sounding.

Will keep you throughly entertained, while you patiently await your 6SN7W bargain tube


----------



## wazzupi

JazzVinyl said:


> Mine are black base, but I promise...the glued on base,  does NOT make the sound


So are you saying i spent 100 extra dollars for a glued on metal base ?


----------



## UntilThen

12au7 adapter arrived today. Let's see what the Mullard cv4003 can do.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> More to the point, time to get in line.



Ros what configuration did you have on your GEL3N ?

Did you have the better sockets? Did you have special caps?

Multiple input jacks?


----------



## UntilThen

The ritual of testing a new tube. Remove the Mullard CV4003 / 12au7 tube from the original Mullard box. Lettering on tube is still perfect. Brand new tube which I paid $70 aussie dollars. Insert tube into the brand new adapter from mrsxuling and then into the OTL amp. Power tubes are 6 x Sylvania 6BL7gta which I've use only a few times.

Power switch on and waited 5 minutes. Strapped on Eikon and make sure the headphone jack is inserted. Pure silence with no music playing. Amazing - totally happy. If I can get this silence when using drivers with 6 x 6BL7, that would my 1st smile and a very big smile.

Then the 1st listen and the 2nd smile broke out. This is good. Very articulate and rich tone. This Mullard cv4003 is famed for it's midrange glory. I'll put this tube through 50 hours before reporting further.


----------



## UntilThen

I love this hobby. The ability to tune your gear with a change of tube types or brand is just amazing. I would never have known that 12au7 would work so well in Glenn OTL until I tried it. In particular this Mullard M8136. There is a connect with the music. Female vocals are just so seductive and the sense of space in the soundstage.

Best of all, this combination with 6 x 6BL7gta works so well and it's very quiet combination. No noise at all. It's all very gear dependent though and one's preference.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I love this hobby. The ability to tune your gear with a change of tube types or brand is just amazing. I would never have known that 12au7 would work so well in Glenn OTL until I tried it.



Do I need to buy an adapter for the 12au7 to work in the GOTL,and how many of this type of tubes does it need ? Im particulary fond of my Telefunken,and most likely would want to pair it with something with some warmth.


----------



## yates7592

I have to say that bass on HD800 is on another level with my Glenn OTL. Listening with GZ37 fat bottle, ECC32, 6 x Fivre 6BX7. This is what these headphones are really capable of.


----------



## leftside

yates7592 said:


> I have to say that bass on HD800 is on another level with my Glenn OTL. Listening with GZ37 fat bottle, ECC32, 6 x Fivre 6BX7. This is what these headphones are really capable of.


Can you post some pics? I'd like to see the difference between the SS rectifier and tube rectifier versions.


----------



## yates7592

Leftside - Will do tomorrow, all switched off now!


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Do I need to buy an adapter for the 12au7 to work in the GOTL,and how many of this type of tubes does it need ? Im particulary fond of my Telefunken,and most likely would want to pair it with something with some warmth.



You will need only one tube as shown on my picture above and you need this adapter from my good friend in China. 
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-Gol...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

With this adapter, you can try both 12au7 and 12ax7, the latter has a much higher gain but JV finds it works with a pair of 6as7.

Telefunken 12au7 is another good brand but I think the tone is more clinical whilst the Mullard is more lush. However I would have to listen to know for sure.


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> I have to say that bass on HD800 is on another level with my Glenn OTL. Listening with GZ37 fat bottle, ECC32, 6 x Fivre 6BX7. This is what these headphones are really capable of.



Totally true. HD800 sounds so right with GOTL. However I'm starting to use my 'wooden' headphones more now. Eikon and Atticus bass is taken to another level. LCD-2f sounds splendid with it too.

Your tube combination will sound superb.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Ros what configuration did you have on your GEL3N ?
> 
> Did you have the better sockets? Did you have special caps?
> 
> Multiple input jacks?



Yes on the Yamamoto sockets. With tube rectifier. Single input. Caps not discussed yet. 

However...
Build on my EL3N not started yet, originally scheduled for Jan/Feb, but thought it might 
be a good idea for Glenn to move forward with some of the builds for first time customers.
Reason being that I have the GOTL, and already enjoying the Glenn Sound. : )
Not really a problem for me to wait a few months...
LOL, But I don't see the line getting shorter, at least, not in the near future!
Thus my comment to you about getting in line. : )

I purchased the Yamamoto sockets in January, after I had a chance to see the typical new 
production sockets on the 2xEL3N to 6SN7 adapter. No comparison, the Yamamoto are really fine.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> With this adapter, you can try both 12au7 and 12ax7, the latter has a much higher gain but JV finds it works with a pair of 6as7.
> 
> Telefunken 12au7 is another good brand but I think the tone is more clinical whilst the Mullard is more lush. However I would have to listen to know for sure.



I have also tried both the 12AU7 and the 12AX7 and agree that they are both fine with the lower gain power tubes.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Do I need to buy an adapter for the 12au7 to work in the GOTL,and how many of this type of tubes does it need ? Im particulary fond of my Telefunken,and most likely would want to pair it with something with some warmth.



In addition to as 12A-7 types, you can also roll E80CC / 6085. These were manufactured in Holland by Philips and in Hungary by Tungsram. Good sounding tubes.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> In addition to as 12A-7 types, you can also roll E80CC / 6085. These were manufactured in Holland by Philips and in Hungary by Tungsram. Good sounding tubes.



So all four types can be used with that specific adapter(already bought one)or do I need another?


----------



## gibosi

yates7592 said:


> I have to say that bass on HD800 is on another level with my Glenn OTL. Listening with GZ37 fat bottle, ECC32, 6 x Fivre 6BX7. This is what these headphones are really capable of.



Both the fat GZ37 and ECC32 have strong bass and putting these two together is like adding a subwoofer to the HD800. lol


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> So all four types can be used with that specific adapter(already bought one)or do I need another?



12A-7 is shorthand for 12AU7, 12AT7 and 12AX7. And the E80CC has the same pinout. So yes, that one adapter will work with all four types.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> 12A-7 is shorthand for 12AU7, 12AT7 and 12AX7. And the E80CC has the same pinout. So yes, that one adapter will work with all four types.



E80cc is a nice tube Ken, nice one

On top of E80CC you can also use 12BH7 which is my favorite 12AU7 tube


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Both the fat GZ37 and ECC32 have strong bass and putting these two together is like adding a subwoofer to the HD800. lol


ECC32 rocks. Just a shame they are so darn expensive. Also buyer beware - these tubes have been popular for a long time - so have probably been well used. Only buy from reputable sellers. I thought they were expensive when I was buying them, but I've looked at some recent prices. Ouch. Good job you only need one with the GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> In addition to as 12A-7 types, you can also roll E80CC / 6085. These were manufactured in Holland by Philips and in Hungary by Tungsram. Good sounding tubes.



Thanks for sounding out the E80CC. Also the 12BH7 mentioned by Jek. I know nothing about these tubes so might be worth trying.

Prices vary greatly on ebay.


----------



## jekjek

@gibosi 
Can we put 12B4 into GOTL as driver?


----------



## gibosi

While it is certainly possible, it might not be worth the trouble. This is a single triode, so it would be necessary to run a pair through the SN7 socket via some sort of an adapter. I do something similar with a pair of No. 27's but the 12B4 is a 9-pin all-glass miniature and I don't see a suitable adapter on eBay.


----------



## jekjek

Thank you @gibosi ,
By the way i just got a BL63
Looking forward for it to arrived 
I assume the U18/20 rectifier will be strong enough to for BL63 and a pair of 6h13c?


----------



## yates7592

leftside said:


> Can you post some pics? I'd like to see the difference between the SS rectifier and tube rectifier versions.



Here you go:


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 27, 2018)

^^ what driver tube is that  ^^


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> ^^ what driver tube is that  ^^



The fame ECC32.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> The fame ECC32.




Thanks, thought it might be an ECC31 and was thinking he should have an adapter...but ECC32 and all is good.


----------



## UntilThen

Yates what pads are you using on your HD800? I've never seen such thick pads.


----------



## yates7592 (Apr 27, 2018)

Dekoni sheepskin pads, really easy to put on, but a real bitch to put the old ones back though, so I'm staying with Dekoni. With the driver further away from the ear, there is a sense of even more spaciousness, hard as that may be with HD800. Plus I prefer leather to fabric pads.


----------



## UntilThen

Of the 4 headphones that I have, 3 have leather pads. They are Eikon, Atticus and LCD-2f. Lately I've been using these more than HD800. 

Day 2 with Mullard M8136 and 6 x Sylvania 6BL7gta. I'm super impressed with the sound. There's a naturalness to the tone. No glare when you turn up the volume and yet super clear. Mids are deliciously rich in tone. I'm on Audeze LCD-2f now.


----------



## gibosi

jekjek said:


> Thank you @gibosi ,
> By the way i just got a BL63
> Looking forward for it to arrived
> I assume the U18/20 rectifier will be strong enough to for BL63 and a pair of 6h13c?



Yes, the U18/20 is fine. In fact, any rectifier that can provide at least 250ma is fine. Enjoy.


----------



## lukeap69

yates7592 said:


> Here you go:


That's one helluva amp Paul. Glad that you are enjoying it now.


----------



## felix3650

yates7592 said:


> Here you go:


Very imposing with those big tubes. Care to take a shot during the dark hours when those tubes glow?


----------



## mordy

Hi felix3650,

Just for fun a couple of tube glow pictures:













Oops, I meant this:




I have to point out that some of my best sounding tubes don't have much tube glow....


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> Very imposing with those big tubes. Care to take a shot during the dark hours when those tubes glow?



As addictive it is to look at the glow, it's the sound of music from GOTL that will take you over. Close your eyes and listen. Glenn's OTL amp is at the pinnacle of OTL amps. I even prefer it over Woo Audio WA5.

Cetron 6336b looks great in night shots.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi felix3650,
> 
> Just for fun a couple of tube glow pictures:



I don’t know why but out of all the the pics this one has me doing this:


----------



## UntilThen

@Phantaminum  I thought you'd be doing this.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> @Phantaminum  I thought you'd be doing this.



Oh that’s a given. Replace the Orange Juice with Whiskey in that gif and you have me.


----------



## UntilThen

I can't believe how good this driver sounds with 6 x Sylvania 6BL7gta. So much so I've forgotten how Sylvania 6sn7w metal base sounds now. You know, this tone in imprinted in me now.


----------



## Phantaminum (Apr 27, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I can't believe how good this driver sounds with 6 x Sylvania 6BL7gta. So much so I've forgotten how Sylvania 6sn7w metal base sounds now. You know, this tone in imprinted in me now.



I remember you talking about purchasing 6922 drivers.

I was hoping to get your impressions on some of them in the GOTL. I have a pair of each of the HGs: Siemens CCas, Telefunken e188CCs, and Amperex Pinched Waist tubes. Sprinkled with several different Russian tubes. Keeping them because of how great those tubes sounded in the Mjolnir 2.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I remember you talking about purchasing 6922 drivers.
> 
> I was hoping to get your impressions on some of them in the GOTL. I have a pair of each of the tof the HGs: Siemens CCas, Telefunken e188CCs, and Amperex Pinched Waist tubes. Sprinkled with several different Russian tubes. Keeping them because of how great those tubes sounded in the Mjolnir 2.



You must have miss my posts on the Genalex Gold Lion E88CC / 6922. I like it but I could only get it to work with Cetron 6336b. It's reacting with some noise when I tried with 6 x 6BX7gt. Might be quiet in another person's setup. Who knows.

With 6336b and 6h13c, the Gold Lion sounded superb. I fear the small tubes may overtake my life. 

Now I need some advice for those with experience on E80CC.

Should I get this?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/263585054066

or this?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/262430388367


----------



## UntilThen

Well Phanta, with all those superb 6922s, you're going to have a ball with the OTL amp. You're going to love it.


----------



## felix3650

mordy said:


> Hi felix3650,
> 
> Just for fun a couple of tube glow pictures:
> 
> ...





UntilThen said:


> As addictive it is to look at the glow, it's the sound of music from GOTL that will take you over. Close your eyes and listen. Glenn's OTL amp is at the pinnacle of OTL amps. I even prefer it over Woo Audio WA5.
> 
> Cetron 6336b looks great in night shots.


Wow! And I'm like this




Patience is what I need. In time I'll hear it


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> I can't believe how good this driver sounds with 6 x Sylvania 6BL7gta. So much so I've forgotten how Sylvania 6sn7w metal base sounds now. You know, this tone in imprinted in me now.



Mullard CV4003
I've read people describing the Brimar CV4003 as an almost Mullard like mids with better air and smoothness up top.

https://m.ebay.it/itm/CV4003-12AU7-BRIMAR-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC28-/263289752838?nav=SEARCH


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> You must have miss my posts on the Genalex Gold Lion E88CC / 6922. I like it but I could only get it to work with Cetron 6336b. It's reacting with some noise when I tried with 6 x 6BX7gt. Might be quiet in another person's setup. Who knows.
> 
> With 6336b and 6h13c, the Gold Lion sounded superb. I fear the small tubes may overtake my life.
> 
> ...



Mullard never manufactured the E80CC. Both of these are Heerlen, Holland production, likely from the mid-1960s. So go for the best price.


----------



## leftside

Tried out the Lorenz C3g's tonight. Very nice. Don't seem to be quite as loud as the C3g POST's? But perhaps a little smoother. I'll keep them in for the next few weeks.

I've been running the LCD4s with the Glenn 300B for a few weeks now. Absolutely love the combo. The 300B seems to really like these headphones - amazing sound and completely black background. Can't ever imagine I'm going to change this combo.


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Yes, the U18/20 is fine. In fact, any rectifier that can provide at least 250ma is fine. Enjoy.



Thank you Ken for recommending us these awesome tubes


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> You mean, like the Tango....by Larry Moore



10 Squared is a pair of #10 DHTs driving another pair of #10s.  Glenn originally proposed using the 10 for the driver stage in my amp, but I got cold feet after spending 4 months looking on eBay for a pair and not seeing one.  Seemed too rare.  I was also worried about insufficient gain.  8 x 3.5 would have resulted in a situation like I have with the Inspire IHA-1 where you can turn the volume to max and it's not even all that loud.  

The way people talk about this tube really raises a person's curiosity.  The specs seem pretty ideal for a headphone amp too.  Right amount of power, right amount of total gain.  The distortion characteristics would be amazing with identical DHT stages, you'd get lots of cancellation, and the 10 is super low distortion to start with.  

I'm not familiar with the amp in your photo.  The front tubes have thoriated tungsten filaments so they're either 10, 10Y or 801A.  The rear tubes have regular oxide filaments though.  The funny thing about the 10 was that some of them *did* have oxide filaments, but most people agree the thoriated tungsten version sounds much better.  

I happened to be perusing eBay a little while ago and there were a whole bunch of them being sold.  It struck me as a little ironic that they are suddenly easy to find now that I don't need any.


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> 10 Squared is a pair of #10 DHTs driving another pair of #10s.  Glenn originally proposed using the 10 for the driver stage in my amp, but I got cold feet after spending 4 months looking on eBay for a pair and not seeing one.  Seemed too rare.  I was also worried about insufficient gain.  8 x 3.5 would have resulted in a situation like I have with the Inspire IHA-1 where you can turn the volume to max and it's not even all that loud.
> 
> The way people talk about this tube really raises a person's curiosity.  The specs seem pretty ideal for a headphone amp too.  Right amount of power, right amount of total gain.  The distortion characteristics would be amazing with identical DHT stages, you'd get lots of cancellation, and the 10 is super low distortion to start with.
> 
> ...



To get the gain the amp has to use inter stage transformers the transformers give the voltage boost in the driver stage.
This is the way it was done in the 1920s when there were only low gain tubes like the 01A then came the 26.
The tubes gave current gain to drive the transformers and the transformers gave the voltage boost.
To have good sound all transformers have to be high quality in a amp like this.


----------



## 2359glenn

One thing I just found out is that a low power amp can sound great with plenty of volume.
The EL3N amp I just built with speaker outputs has wonderful sound on my speakers
And while listening Lucy asked me to lower it.
This 1.5 watt amp is more then enough for headphones and speakers.
When I get time to build my EL3N it will have speaker outputs and I will get rid of my 300B
Speaker amps. I like $20 tubes had it with expensive 300Bs that burn out after a year.


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn, is it possible to have 300B tubes in an OTL configuration?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> One thing I just found out is that a low power amp can sound great with plenty of volume.
> The EL3N amp I just built with speaker outputs has wonderful sound on my speakers
> And while listening Lucy asked me to lower it.
> This 1.5 watt amp is more then enough for headphones and speakers.
> ...




I could not agree more that 1 and 1.5 watt of amp power is plenty.
For people who love the tube sound, and for the price of the tubes...the bang for the buck is just there when you can run a tube properly with an amp and the tube does not cost much. 

The cost of the tubes alone keeps me away from your 300B amp, I have no doubt that the sound must be incredible and the best of your amps so far.
To hear you say that the 1.5 watt amp is arriving and the 300B speaker amp will be departing speaks volumes.

For people with just half of the budget of the 300B amp amp...depending on the options they want.......this amp falls right in line.

The EL3N tubes can be finicky, but no denying the powerful and warm sound of the tube, if one loves that sort of thing.  



 When the lady says to lower the volume, then it is loud enough and you lower the volume  
Heck, I can't even listen to speakers here without disturbing anyone and at times my open cans leak too much noise.
I use closed headphones much more now days, and  everybody is happy and when the lady is happy...I am happy.

I love the intimacy of headphones though, and I enjoy my music now more than ever.
My journey has been about  9 or 10 years now and I have found my happy place.

I have never enjoyed bass more in my music than I am now, as I have never heard it sound so good.
I have found out that really good bass adds a much better depth of the sound stage and you not only listen to the sound you can feel it a small bit.  A great combo for blues and blues rock kind of stuff.

I really hope you can find the time to make yourself an amp to enjoy.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> For people who love the tube sound



Well I would be one to love the sound of tubes  and I find the GOTL to suit me perfectly. I can tune it to sound warm, lush and romantic or neutral and transparent or ...... somewhere in between.

Glenn mentioned that GOTL is about 1 watt and it certainly feels that there is power aplenty to me.

Still on Mullard cv4003 but with a pair of Svetlana 6h13c now. Very quiet and great tone.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Well I would be one to love the sound of tubes  and I find the GOTL to suit me perfectly. I can tune it to sound warm, lush and romantic or neutral and transparent or ...... somewhere in between.
> 
> Glenn mentioned that GOTL is about 1 watt and it certainly feels that there is power aplenty to me.
> 
> Still on Mullard cv4003 but with a pair of Svetlana 6h13c now. Very quiet and great tone.



I was 99% sure that you would love this amp, especially the way you liked rolling tubes in your previous OTL amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Everything falls in place nicely. I had bought most of my tubes, especially the power tubes before I even consider GOTL. I bought HD800, Eikon, Atticus and LCD-2f to go with Ragnarok. Those headphones did work very well with Rag. Then the fateful day when I decide to order GOTL and when I got it, the headphones sounded even better with the GOTL than Rag.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Everything falls in place nicely. I had bought most of my tubes, especially the power tubes before I even consider GOTL. I bought HD800, Eikon, Atticus and LCD-2f to go with Ragnarok. Those headphones did work very well with Rag. Then the fateful day when I decide to order GOTL and when I got it, the headphones sounded even better with the GOTL than Rag.



Already having the tubes is a big plus...because to get some of the best ones, it will hurt your wallet big time.

Great thing is, you don't need two driver tubes.
 Heck I have never heard an old 6/12/25 SN7 tube that I did not like the sound of  ....listening to an 1950's GE GT driver now, with four 6BX7 Tung Sol
Powering the ZMF Ori and it sounds really nice.

I am listening to BB King & Roger Daltry  together ..."Never Make Your Move Too Soon"........Fantastic!


----------



## leftside (Apr 28, 2018)

I know there's been some talk of the ECC82/12AU7 tubes on here. I rolled a NOS/NIB Telefunken into my Euforia DAC today. I'm not someone who tends to notice big differences with tubes, but I noticed straight away the extra detail over the stock JJ ECC802S. I know Telefunken's aren't cheap, but they are worth it. I run lightly used Telefunken ECC83s in my preamp (test as NOS) and lightly used can be found at better prices over genuine NOS. I'm also a big fan of Mullard tubes, and will try one of those ECC82's in the GOTL.

I also highly recommend the Euforia DAC. I can see why Lampizator stopped selling them as they give the higher end Lampizator DACs a run for their money. Mine uses a combo of 6X5, ECC99 and ECC82 tubes. http://www.lampizator.eu/Fikus/DSD-Euforia_DAC.html


----------



## leftside

Here's one from Brent Jesse:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BALANCED-T...SMOOTH-PLATE-MARK-VACUUM-BJR7017/382441677691


----------



## UntilThen

I've been fixated with Mullard cv4003 for 3 days but it's time for a treat on a Sunday. Leftside stop tempting me with more ECC82. I'm now contemplating a 300b amp. This hobby will drive me nuts.

Mullard ECC33 and 2 x Cetron 7236 / 2 x Tung Sol 5998. What a beautiful, sweet and vivid tone. Snaps of the finger in the song sounds so real. This is a blending of 7236 and 5998 tone. Makes my LCD-2f and Atticus sounds lively.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I also highly recommend the Euforia DAC. I can see why Lampizator stopped selling them as they give the higher end Lampizator DACs a run for their money. Mine uses a combo of 6X5, ECC99 and ECC82 tubes. http://www.lampizator.eu/Fikus/DSD-Euforia_DAC.html



I'm a Yggdrasil fan. My audio orbit revolves around it. It's a details and resolution animal but yet sounding natural and comfortable to my ears. My search for a top end dac ends here but of course everyone's mileage varies.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> I know there's been some talk of the ECC82/12AU7 tubes on here. I rolled a NOS/NIB Telefunken into my Euforia DAC today. I'm not someone who tends to notice big differences with tubes, but I noticed straight away the extra detail over the stock JJ ECC802S. I know Telefunken's aren't cheap, but they are worth it. I run lightly used Telefunken ECC83s in my preamp (test as NOS) and lightly used can be found at better prices over genuine NOS.



For another perspective, I often find Telefunkens to have a good bit of treble emphasis, and in some cases, at least to my ears, they can be a bit too thin and too airy. That said, in a rather dark system, they can add a welcome dose of treble energy and air. For example, with Lorenz C3g and Tung-Sol 6BX7, I find a Telefunken rectifier to have very good synergy. However, in systems that are already bright, adding a Telefunken might be a bit too much. 

But of course, as always, my ears and gear.... YMMV.


----------



## JazzVinyl

New arrival today, a12SN7 Tung Sol....no black glass, no round plates, but it does have mouse ears.  Inexpensive, less than $16.00 delivered. 

And sounds really good! 

Sneaking some HP time - still working on the carpeted steps to hardwood project.  Main steps are done on to the trim work.  Then hand rail at top of the stairs will be replaced....

Front and rear decks need stain...that will be next.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> For another perspective, I often find Telefunkens to have a good bit of treble emphasis, and in some cases, at least to my ears, they can be a bit too thin and too airy. That said, in a rather dark system, they can add a welcome dose of treble energy and air. For example, with Lorenz C3g and Tung-Sol 6BX7, I find a Telefunken rectifier to have very good synergy. However, in systems that are already bright, adding a Telefunken might be a bit too much.
> 
> But of course, as always, my ears and gear.... YMMV.


It’s all good gibosi. I really enjoy reading your thoughts and impressions.

The Lampizator DACs are quite warm sounding (especially for digital) so that might be a reason there is such good synergy with the teles. It’s also why I have the teles in the audio path for the vinyl input of my preamp. I wouldn’t add the teles to a bright system.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Sneaking some HP time - still working on the carpeted steps to hardwood project.  Main steps are done on to the trim work.  Then hand rail at top of the stairs will be replaced....
> 
> Front and rear decks need stain...that will be next.


Same project for me next year  I’ve promised my wife “I’m done” with the audio upgrades and it’s time to work on the house. Though you b uggers have me ordering the GOTL and buying more tubes again....


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> New arrival today, a12SN7 Tung Sol....no black glass, no round plates, but it does have mouse ears. Inexpensive, less than $16.00 delivered.



Mouse ears sounds good but I've my eyes and ears on the black glass round plates. So no one bid against me on it - especially you @attmci .


----------



## attmci (Apr 28, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Mouse ears sounds good but I've my eyes and ears on the black glass round plates. So no one bid against me on it - especially you @attmci .


I have no plan to bid on any 6SN7 tubes.

I did purchased a dozen Russian tubes Mr. M recommended.


----------



## 2359glenn (Apr 28, 2018)

Here are some 6SN7s auctions there might be some good ones. & 12AU7s

https://www.ebay.com/itm/43-GE-Raul...442472?hash=item2858cbca68:g:0GcAAOSwqoZa4R58

https://www.ebay.com/itm/46-Sylvani...726322?hash=item2f19f197b2:g:YccAAOSw1fha4R4E

https://www.ebay.com/itm/18-Mullard...774501?hash=item2f19f253e5:g:OacAAOSw2Yta4TU2


----------



## leftside (Apr 28, 2018)

Lot's of nice tubes there Glenn.

I can't believe how many tubes that guy has for sale. Thousands!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mickey has landed....

Fun with the Mouse Ears Tung Sol 12SN7GT and the trusty 6x 6BL7's....


----------



## mordy

From reading I have the impression that the Tung Sol 6F8G tubes sound similar to the 6SN7/12SN7 Tung Sol Round Plate tubes. 
Just bought a lot of four 6F8G tubes: Philco (Sylvania), Raytheon, Tung Sol and an unknown brand Radiocoin.



The Radiocoin looks exactly the same as the Tung Sol, so I assume that it is a TS.
Cannot listen to them yet - awaiting adapters (bought a pair from Poland; hope they are good and that they arrive faster than from China).
The TS tubes have flat plates and not round ones, but my impression from reading is that they sound the same.
Except for the brand names and 6F8G the tubes have no markings, except for the TS tube having the number 22 on the base. Could this be a date code? Feb 1942, 1952?
Does anybody now?
Paid around $22 each incl shipping - all are supposed to measure NOS or close to it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

They look great, Mordy.  Can't wait for the listening report...


----------



## wazzupi (Apr 29, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I can't believe how good this driver sounds with 6 x Sylvania 6BL7gta. So much so I've forgotten how Sylvania 6sn7w metal base sounds now. You know, this tone in imprinted in me now.


Every time this happens


----------



## UntilThen

Very nice looking 6fg8 Mordy. I will make you my purchasing officer.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Every time this happens



Fear not, my top 3 combinations have remain unchanged. 

And for Mordy's sake, I'm listening with Tung Sol combination. 6F8G and 5998. Simply stunning !

Mordy those maroon coloured adapters from Poland are top quality. You won't regret it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> I'm a Yggdrasil fan. My audio orbit revolves around it. It's a details and resolution animal but yet sounding natural and comfortable to my ears. My search for a top end dac ends here but of course everyone's mileage varies.


Yggy was endgame for me too.  

Have  you done your Analog B upgrade yet?  I've been meaning to get in the queue myself, along with the USB Gen 5 upgrade.  I'm betting the USB update will actually be the bigger improvement for me since I'm forced to use that input exclusively.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Mouse ears sounds good but I've my eyes and ears on the black glass round plates. So no one bid against me on it - especially you @attmci .



It's been my personal opinion for quite a few years now that the "earless" mouse ear Tung Sol is the best deal going in NOS 6SN7 tubes.  If you're patient you can find them quite cheap and they sound excellent, holding up against all but a handful of expensive and exotic competitors.  If a new owner is on a budget this is what I have always recommended as a first stop.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Yggy was endgame for me too.
> 
> Have  you done your Analog B upgrade yet?  I've been meaning to get in the queue myself, along with the USB Gen 5 upgrade.  I'm betting the USB update will actually be the bigger improvement for me since I'm forced to use that input exclusively.



I've not done the upgrades yet. At some point I will. I bought it from Addicted To Audio in Sydney. My Yggy is less than a year old.

You know my Yggy sounds so clear, detailed and revealing now. I am wondering how much better can the upgrades do?


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Mickey has landed....
> 
> Fun with the Mouse Ears Tung Sol 12SN7GT and the trusty 6x 6BL7's....



This is a really nice bang for the buck tube.


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 29, 2018)

I rolled tubes this morning
Bendix 6080 power tubes & Sylvania 12SN7 bad boy driver



This set of Bendix 6080 power tubes are not matched, I bought them as singles at different times...both tested near NOS
I got the one that has no markings for $15, as it was just listed as a 6080 tube  

As you can see the military version of the Bendix 6080 is a little different in its construction.

The military tung sol tube has a little more hefty hardware brackets holding the micas...the top mica is ceramic of the military version, where it is much thinner on the unbranded version.
Also the two rods running up through the middle are copper on the military version, so I  would say they are the more robust tube. Better for micophonics and such.
I have a military pair of red label Bendix that look the same as this military version, except these plates are solid and the red labels are slotted.

For what it is worth, I hear no difference in the sound and I would buy the unbranded version all day long for $15 a tube if I could find it  
No need for matched pairs, just need good test results from tubes.

Also polished both of my ZMF cans yesterday...I give them a polishing about every six weeks...keeps them looking new
 

Listening to Bonamassa's first album with the Ori.

All is good.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Xcalibur255 said:


> It's been my personal opinion for quite a few years now that the "earless" mouse ear Tung Sol is the best deal going in NOS 6SN7 tubes.  If you're patient you can find them quite cheap and they sound excellent, holding up against all but a handful of expensive and exotic competitors.  If a new owner is on a budget this is what I have always recommended as a first stop.



Which model is the "earless" mouse ear Tung Sol?


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> I am wondering how much better can the upgrades do?


I'm sure you're not the only person to say that. Myself included. There are countless posts on here and other hifi related forums where the owner says "I am wondering how much better it can get" And then... shiny new toy/upgrade arrives...


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> I'm sure you're not the only person to say that. Myself included. There are countless posts on here and other hifi related forums where the owner says "I am wondering how much better it can get" And then... shiny new toy/upgrade arrives...



Ha, so true.

A few years ago I would have told you that dac's don't matter as much as your other things in the chain.

I really want to hear the LCD 3  with my gear...I heard the Auteur a while back, small sample...but it could very easily replace my HD800 for blues, classic rock music.
I do not listen to classical, so the Auteur bass more than makes up for the wider sound stage , as the depth of the stage  is better with my gear with the Auteur and blues music.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Which model is the "earless" mouse ear Tung Sol?



It looks identical to the "mouse ears" version, same grey plates, same bottom getter, same top and bottom mica spacers, but it doesn't have "mouse ears". For example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNG-SOL-6...Getter-VACUUM-TUBE-Tested-6-5080/152815226062


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> This is a really nice bang for the buck tube.



I said less than $16.00 but was actually less than $14.00 and agree the big bargains appear to be in 12SN7 land, as you pointed out previously....


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> It looks identical to the "mouse ears" version, same grey plates, same bottom getter, same top and bottom mica spacers, but it doesn't have "mouse ears". For example:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNG-SOL-6...Getter-VACUUM-TUBE-Tested-6-5080/152815226062



Gotcha. And these sound better than the Mouse Ears version?  Seems like I have a pairs of these - have not tried them in the Glenn...but will do so.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I am listening to BB King & Roger Daltry  together ..."Never Make Your Move Too Soon"........Fantastic!



I was not aware these two ever collaborated!  On what album?


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 29, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> I was not aware these two ever collaborated!  On what album?




BB King & Friends   



Friends are Billy Gibbons, Mark Knopfler, John Mayer, Roger Daltry and more.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Gotcha. And these sound better than the Mouse Ears version?  Seems like I have a pairs of these - have not tried them in the Glenn...but will do so.



No, they sound the same. However, many folks don't realize that the "earless" version is identical and thus, they are often cheaper..


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Ha, so true.
> 
> A few years ago I would have told you that dac's don't matter as much as your other things in the chain.
> 
> ...


Same in regard to the DAC. Heck, I used to be a "vinyl only" guy and digital was only good for when on the move.

I prefer the LCD3 for blues and rock and the Auteur for classical. Both are great headphones, but one had to go. The Auteurs are more comfortable than the LCD3. My Blackwood Auteurs will sell, once ZMF sells that one remaining unit they have left on their site.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> It looks identical to the "mouse ears" version, same grey plates, same bottom getter, same top and bottom mica spacers, but it doesn't have "mouse ears". For example:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNG-SOL-6...Getter-VACUUM-TUBE-Tested-6-5080/152815226062


How does this short bottle TS 6SN7GTB side getter rate in the food chain?


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Friends are Billy Gibbons, Mark Knopfler, John Mayer, Roger Daltry and more.



Need to check out this album. All my fav singers and that Billy Gibbons on Perfectamundo will stress test your headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow a lot of sharing on tubes. That's good. 

Since yesterday, I've been using a couple of drivers with a pair of 5998. Both c3g and FDD20 are pretty amazing with the 5998.

And @attmci  didn't I say not to bid against me? Now the price has sky rocket with 3mins to go.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Wow a lot of sharing on tubes. That's good.
> 
> Since yesterday, I've been using a couple of drivers with a pair of 5998. Both c3g and FDD20 are pretty amazing with the 5998.
> 
> And @attmci  didn't I say not to bid against me? Now the price has sky rocket with 3mins to go.



It's Mordy. He pretends to be attmci. He is buying like crazy.


----------



## UntilThen

Won it. A Tung Sol 12SN7gt black glass round plates that tested new for $88. Should have been cheaper if @attmci and @mordy weren't bidding on it.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Won it. A Tung Sol 12SN7gt black glass round plates that tested new for $88. Should have been cheaper if @attmci and @mordy weren't bidding on it.


No Sir, if you are bidding on something I would not bid. 

The trick is to find a tube that is mislabeled by the seller, or under a rebranded name, or a tube that has no name on it and can be identified by it's construction.


----------



## UntilThen

Nah Mordy I was kidding. I know you won't bid against me. You are a good man. 

I wanted a TS BGRP so I can find out for myself if it's really similar sounding to TS 6F8G.


----------



## leftside

Can you use the 6SL7 in the GOTL?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> How does this short bottle TS 6SN7GTB side getter rate in the food chain?



I have no experience with this tube, so I will have to defer to others.....


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Can you use the 6SL7 in the GOTL?



If you search this forum, you will find that Glenn believes the 6SL7 has too much gain. That said, a number of folks report that it sounds great in a Glenn.


----------



## attmci (Apr 29, 2018)

Nothing.


----------



## attmci (Apr 30, 2018)

gibosi said:


> I have no experience with this tube, so I will have to defer to others.....


Deleted.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> This is better than TS RPBG. You should buy all of these when they are still available at very reasonable price. LOL


Hi attmci,

I am not sure if I understand your last two posts. Does nothing mean that you have no experience with this little shortie tube?
I have a box of about a dozen 6SN7 tubes which I bought several years ago in the old 99c stores on eBay - don't think I paid more than $1-4 for them. Mostly Sylvania and RCA, but this TS was in one of the lots.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> I have no experience with this tube, so I will have to defer to others.....



Have not heard that one, either, Mordy.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Apr 30, 2018)

gibosi said:


> It looks identical to the "mouse ears" version, same grey plates, same bottom getter, same top and bottom mica spacers, but it doesn't have "mouse ears". For example:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNG-SOL-6...Getter-VACUUM-TUBE-Tested-6-5080/152815226062


That one even has the copper grid posts.  This tube is about the only really good NOS 6SN7GT tube that hasn't had its prices severely inflated in recent years.  It seems to just keep flying under the radar.


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 30, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Won it. A Tung Sol 12SN7gt black glass round plates that tested new for $88. Should have been cheaper if @attmci and @mordy weren't bidding on it.



Great tube sound just like the 6F8G BGRP to my ears...I do not own any flat plates to compare.


----------



## attmci

Xcalibur255 said:


> That one even has the copper grid posts.  This tube is about the only really good NOS 6SN7GT tube that hasn't had its prices severely inflated in recent years.  It seems to just keep flying under the radar.


Because it's used? 
Results: 68/63.

Minimum Good = 50/50


----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> Great tube sound just like the 6F8G BGRP to my ears...I do not own any flat plates to compare.



I wonder what differences there are between 6F8G and the 6C8G. I have a few Tung Sol round plates of the 6C8Gs and they sound fantastic. 

Any big differences between the RPBG and the Mickey Ears TS?


@2359glenn Shot you a pm. Whenever you catch a break. Thanks!


----------



## gibosi (Apr 30, 2018)

attmci said:


> Because it's used?
> Results: 68/63.
> 
> Minimum Good = 50/50



No.  For one, the "mouse ears" is a very underappreciated tube. Most people do not know how good it is.
Two, the version without the ears is even more unappreciated. No one knows what it is...
And three, and this is my opinion, tube measurements on eBay should be taken with a grain salt. We can't be sure that the vendor's tube tester is properly calibrated or even if the vendor has the knowledge and skill to make good measurements. Further, I am not familiar with the HICKOK TV-7 and therefore, do not know what the readings would be for a new 6SN7.

My impression of this listing is that this is a very good tube with plenty of life left in it and it costs only $11.95.

Edit: Also my opinion, if you buy a NOS/NIB tube and burn it in for a couple hundred hours, it is a used tube, yes? As long as there is plenty of life left in a used tube, there is no sonic difference between it and one that has never been used.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> I wonder what differences there are between 6F8G and the 6C8G. I have a few Tung Sol round plates of the 6C8Gs and they sound fantastic.



The 6C8G has an amplification factor of 36 compared to 20 for the 6F8G/6SN7.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> The 6C8G has an amplification factor of 36 compared to 20 for the 6F8G/6SN7.



From what it seems like the amplification shouldn’t be an issue. Sound wise how do they compare? I’ve grown fond of the TS 6C8G sound and wouldn’t mind grabbing a few more TS 6sn7/12sn7 tubes. The Mickey Mouse ear (and similar tubes) TS look to be a great bargain.


----------



## gibosi

It's been a long time since I listened to either of these tubes, but as best as I can remember, the TS 6C8G sounds very similar to the TS 6F8G, and both sound very similar to the TS-BGRP 6SN7/12SN7.


----------



## UntilThen (Apr 30, 2018)

4:30am and I'm up. Need to sneak a listen and I'm using a Tung Sol 6F8G rebranded 'Art' and a pair of Tung Sol 5998 that I bought from a seller in Vietnam 2 years ago, who told me that it came from a military warehouse. When the 5998 came, I can see it's brand new. The green lettering is still gleaming. At that time I paid $239 for the pair. This pair is ultra silent. I have another pair that is not as quiet.

This Tung Sol combination is one of the reasons I fall head over heels over Glenn's OTL amp. It's vibrant, vivid, full bodied, crystal clear and a truly magical sound through the Eikon headphone.

..... and it's ultra quiet.


----------



## UntilThen

I have a Tung Sol mouse ears. Whilst I consider it to be good, it is not in the same league as what I consider my other top tier tubes. Take it with a grain of salt. It's just my opinion. 

For daily listening, it will suffice...


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> 4:30am and I'm up. Need to sneak a listen and I'm using a Tung Sol 6F8G rebranded 'Art' and a pair of Tung Sol 5998 that I bought from a seller in Vietnam 2 years ago, who told me that it came from a military warehouse. When the 5998 came, I can see it's brand new. The green lettering is still gleaming. At that time I paid $239 for the pair. This pair is ultra silent. I have another pair that is not as quiet.
> 
> This Tung Sol combination is one of the reasons I fall head over heels over Glenn's OTL amp. It's vibrant, vivid, full bodied, crystal clear and a truly magical sound through the Eikon headphone.
> 
> ..... and it's ultra quiet.



Some time ago. I bought a 12SN7 ART rebrand,  that is a TS BGRP....

But alas, it is too noisy to be used.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I have a Tung Sol mouse ears. Whilst I consider it to be good, it is not in the same league as what I consider my other top tier tubes. Take it with a grain of salt. It's just my opinion.
> 
> For daily listening, it will suffice...



Did you try it with 6x 6BL7's?


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have located a Tung Sol 12SN7 BGRP and have placed my order:

 

Hope to see how it compares to Sylvania 6SN7W in the GOTL (cost the same a good working 6SN7W - around $50.00).


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Did you try it with 6x 6BL7's?



Tried the mouse ears with 6 x 6BL7, 5998, Gec 6as7g.

Same opinion.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Tried the mouse ears with 6 x 6BL7, 5998, Gec 6as7g.
> 
> Same opinion.



Very Good.

Can't wait for you to compare 6SN7W to TS 12SN7 BGRP.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> No.  For one, the "mouse ears" is a very underappreciated tube. Most people do not know how good it is.
> Two, the version without the ears is even more unappreciated. No one knows what it is...
> And three, and this is my opinion, tube measurements on eBay should be taken with a grain salt. We can't be sure that the vendor's tube tester is properly calibrated or even if the vendor has the knowledge and skill to make good measurements. Further, I am not familiar with the HICKOK TV-7 and therefore, do not know what the readings would be for a new 6SN7.
> 
> ...



https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-Sylvania-6SN7GT-Bad-Boy-Audio-Tube-USA-1951-/202298548086

nos tested at 92/99. Min 50/50


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-Sylvania-6SN7GT-Bad-Boy-Audio-Tube-USA-1951-/202298548086
> 
> nos tested at 92/99. Min 50/50



OK. It appears that on a Hickok, an NOS tube measures above 90.

But again, $11.95 for a tube that is quite good, even if it is not top tier, and will provide somewhere around 1000 hours of use. Versus a new two-hole Sylvania, which is not even a true "Bad Boy", that might provide 2500 hours of use for $75? For my money, the Tung-Sol is the much better deal. But of course, YMMV.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> OK. It appears that on a Hickok, an NOS tube measures above 90.
> 
> But again, $11.95 for a tube that is quite good, even if it is not top tier, and will provide somewhere around 1000 hours of use. Versus a new two-hole Sylvania, which is not even a true "Bad Boy", that might provide 2500 hours of use for $75? For my money, the Tung-Sol is the much better deal. But of course, YMMV.


I didn't even notice it's a "bad boy". I just wanted to quote the readings.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> I didn't even notice it's a "bad boy". I just wanted to quote the readings.



And I knew that you wanted me to see those readings. But I decided to use this exchange to give those who are new to purchasing tubes something to think about. That is, purchasing only NOS tubes may not always be the best strategy. It just might make more sense to buy 5 used tubes with plenty of life left in them rather than one NOS tube, for the same cost.

Cheers


----------



## mordy

Hi gibosi,
Thanks for your insights! I am only speaking for myself, but with all the tubes I have and all the tube rolling I cannot remember wearing out a tube yet....
Yes, agree completely.


----------



## mordy (May 1, 2018)

Is it possible that Telefunken made this 6AS7 tube?





https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-VA...727323?hash=item3b082537db:g:BsQAAOSwYc5Z~Bn9
The same seller also has a similar tube labeled Haltron.
Well, perhaps these tubes were packaged by TFK and Haltron, but they are Russian tubes worth maybe $10 each shipped.
Yep - the give away are the inverted saucer getters - good old Svetlana 6H13C/6N13S.
Looks very real though:


----------



## leftside

Holy moly there are a lot of nice 12au7, 6DJ8, ECC88, 6922, E88CC, E188CC, 7308, etc tubes out there. Langrex has a lot of nice Mullards, but they seem to be selling quickly, even with a large stock. Quite a few sellers in Canada. Brent Jesse also has a lot of nice ones in stock, but $$$. Often can be found from other reputable sellers for less, but the guy has a lot of tubes that simply can't be found elsewhere. I picked up some of his discounted ones on eBay.

Thankfully, I already have drawers full of 6SN7's and related...


----------



## leftside (May 1, 2018)

mordy said:


> Is it possible that Telefunken made this 6AS7 tube?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-VA...727323?hash=item3b082537db:g:BsQAAOSwYc5Z~Bn9
> The same seller also has a similar tube labeled Haltron.


Can't answer your question, but I notice they are military spec as well. The guy has some nice tubes, but some very nice prices. Ouch. Gorgeous:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/CV2523-MARC...-6-13-6AS7-6-5-A1834-A4475-VALVE/253539703488

And look at some of those rectifiers.....

I was just reading about the CCA tubes:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/quartet-tub...D-PINS-PRE-AMPLIFIER-INPUT-VALVE/253544038166

Not sure why they are so expensive. They don't seem to be that rare. I used to collect records from a few bands, and their really rare records would hardly ever appear for sale - perhaps once a decade. That's rare. The ECC32 tubes do seem to be quite rare these days though. Don't seem to be many of those around.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Can't answer your question, but I notice they are military spec as well. The guy has some nice tubes, but some very nice prices. Ouch. Gorgeous:
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/CV2523-MARC...-6-13-6AS7-6-5-A1834-A4475-VALVE/253539703488
> 
> And look at some of those rectifiers.....
> ...


Hi leftside,
I almost fell for the listing, but then common sense kicked in - see my edit above.


----------



## leftside (May 1, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi leftside,
> I almost fell for the listing, but then common sense kicked in - see my edit above.


Well done! You can clearly see those inverted saucer getters in the pics. Makes you wonder about some of his other tubes.


----------



## Phantaminum

leftside said:


> I was just reading about the CCA tubes:
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/quartet-tub...D-PINS-PRE-AMPLIFIER-INPUT-VALVE/253544038166
> 
> Not sure why they are so expensive. They don't seem to be that rare. I used to collect records from a few bands, and their really rare records would hardly ever appear for sale - perhaps once a decade. That's rare. The ECC32 tubes do seem to be quite rare these days though. Don't seem to be many of those around.



The seller is simply overcharging for those CCas. You can find a great pair from $235 - 300 with the tube markings intact.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Very Good.
> 
> Can't wait for you to compare 6SN7W to TS 12SN7 BGRP.



If the Tung Sol 6F8G is any indication then picking a winner between these 2 tubes would not be easy. At the moment still listening to Tung Sol 6F8G and Tung Sol 5998 and it's almost a transcendental experience. It's one of those times where I don't want to change the tubes because they sounded so good. Clear and fast, wide soundstage and good bass. Lush and a magical midrange. 

It's certainly worthy of a place in Glenn's OTL amp which I consider a superbly well voiced OTL amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Holy moly there are a lot of nice 12au7, 6DJ8, ECC88, 6922, E88CC, E188CC, 7308, etc tubes out there. Langrex has a lot of nice Mullards, but they seem to be selling quickly, even with a large stock. Quite a few sellers in Canada. Brent Jesse also has a lot of nice ones in stock, but $$$. Often can be found from other reputable sellers for less, but the guy has a lot of tubes that simply can't be found elsewhere. I picked up some of his discounted ones on eBay.
> 
> Thankfully, I already have drawers full of 6SN7's and related...



Check out the "Baldwin Premium" line of 12AU7's.  They are Sylvania tubes, even the Baldwin packaging says they are "reference grade Sylvania" tubes:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-12AU7A-S...lus-Grade-High-End-Vintage-Tubes/302722319480

Sound very good...


----------



## JazzVinyl (May 1, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> If the Tung Sol 6F8G is any indication then picking a winner between these 2 tubes would not be easy. At the moment still listening to Tung Sol 6F8G and Tung Sol 5998 and it's almost a transcendental experience. It's one of those times where I don't want to change the tubes because they sounded so good. Clear and fast, wide soundstage and good bass. Lush and a magical midrange.
> 
> It's certainly worthy of a place in Glenn's OTL amp which I consider a superbly well voiced OTL amp.



Hear ya and will be interesting to find out if the Tung Sol 6F8G and TS 12SN7 BGRP sound identical!!  Your TS 6F8G is a rare beast...not seen very often these days.


----------



## mordy (May 1, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Hear ya and will be interesting to find out if the Tung Sol 6F8G and TS 12SN7 BGRP sound identical!!  Your TS 6F8G is a rare beast...maybe costs more, even, than a TS 6SN7BGRP....


Hi JV,

27 of the TS 6F8G were sold the last two months - the average price is $68 with prices ranging from $21 to $168.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...lete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684


----------



## mordy

Where are the dimples? 421A tube:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-4...990361?hash=item1a4cf0aa59:g:EakAAOSwDPNa3~yD




Looks shaky......


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> 27 of the TS 6F8G were sold the last two months - the average price is $68 with prices ranging from $21 to $168.
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Tung Sol 6F8G&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684



Have people gone crazy? These were going for $10 five years ago.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Have people gone crazy? These were going for $10 five years ago.


I guess they weren't called "meatball" tubes then either......


----------



## musicman59

2359glenn said:


> Have people gone crazy? These were going for $10 five years ago.


Unfortunately that's what a free market with limited supplies does to us....


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> I have a Tung Sol mouse ears. Whilst I consider it to be good, it is not in the same league as what I consider my other top tier tubes. Take it with a grain of salt. It's just my opinion.
> 
> For daily listening, it will suffice...



Haha, yeah, we're not trying to say these are better than a metal base Sylvania or anything.  It's just a smart buy and a really good recommendation to get new people started because they sound so good for what you have to pay for them and offer a balanced well-rounded sound that doesn't lean in any particular direction tone-wise.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Check out the "Baldwin Premium" line of 12AU7's.  They are Sylvania tubes, even the Baldwin packaging says they are "reference grade Sylvania" tubes:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-12AU7A-S...lus-Grade-High-End-Vintage-Tubes/302722319480
> 
> Sound very good...


Brent also highly recommends those on his site. Thanks for pointing them out JV.


----------



## whirlwind (May 1, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> If the Tung Sol 6F8G is any indication then picking a winner between these 2 tubes would not be easy. At the moment still listening to Tung Sol 6F8G and Tung Sol 5998 and it's almost a transcendental experience. It's one of those times where I don't want to change the tubes because they sounded so good. Clear and fast, wide soundstage and good bass. Lush and a magical midrange.
> 
> It's certainly worthy of a place in Glenn's OTL amp which I consider a superbly well voiced OTL amp.



I really like this combo also Matt.
I have listened to it for a couple of months before rolling tubes again


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Hear ya and will be interesting to find out if the Tung Sol 6F8G and TS 12SN7 BGRP sound identical!!  Your TS 6F8G is a rare beast...not seen very often these days.



It's quite cheap by today's standard.  Stavros pointed it out to me when I ask to buy some Tung Sol 6F8G round plates from his stable. Says this is a much lower price than his tubes, it's NOS NIB and from a seller in Australia.

TS 6F8G is still cheaper than TS 6sn7gt bgrp but price has shot up a lot. Certainly no longer $10, Glenn. 

This is how it came in. I paid US$135 for the pair.... or AUD$180.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Haha, yeah, we're not trying to say these are better than a metal base Sylvania or anything.  It's just a smart buy and a really good recommendation to get new people started because they sound so good for what you have to pay for them and offer a balanced well-rounded sound that doesn't lean in any particular direction tone-wise.



It's cool mate. I am not adverse to cheaper and good sounding tubes. 

That's why I ordered 4 Fotons 6n8s ribbed plates 1954 - 56 which is Mordy's recommendation and confirmed by quite a few that's it's good.

I think with the purchase of the TS 12SN7gt bgrp, that will be the end of my 6sn7 and 6as7 purchase. I have far too many tubes than I really need.


----------



## UntilThen

A bit off topic here but I'm quite keen on the Massdrop Dekoni pads for HD800 and HD800s going on now. I know a lot of people who bought it have been very happy with the comfort and say that it hardly changes the sound at all. @yates7592 can you confirm that? 

Did you get the Elite Velour, Sheepskin, Hybrid or Fenestrated sheepskin... what a name. 
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dekoni-premium-ear-pads-for-sennheiser-hd-800#description


----------



## yates7592

Matt I got the sheepskin version (non fenestrated). I certainly don't feel as if anything is missing compared to stock. If anything,imaging is improved although I havn't done A/B.


----------



## musicman59

UntilThen said:


> A bit off topic here but I'm quite keen on the Massdrop Dekoni pads for HD800 and HD800s going on now. I know a lot of people who bought it have been very happy with the comfort and say that it hardly changes the sound at all. @yates7592 can you confirm that?
> 
> Did you get the Elite Velour, Sheepskin, Hybrid or Fenestrated sheepskin... what a name.
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dekoni-premium-ear-pads-for-sennheiser-hd-800#description


I just bought the velour version at Axpona. I listened to both the leather and velour and the velour fit better my taste. IMO the leather ones brought out a little more of their highs. The think the Velour are closer to the original Alcantara pads so the sound did not change and yes the soundstage presentation got better.

I also bout a pair of their Utopia velour pads and really like them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I finally found the 46 tubes I was looking for and by the time I got logged in to buy them they were already gone.


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> I finally found the 46 tubes I was looking for and by the time I got logged in to buy them they were already gone.



That sucks


----------



## Phantaminum (May 2, 2018)

Xcalibur255 said:


> I finally found the 46 tubes I was looking for and by the time I got logged in to buy them they were already gone.



Dang! Sorry to hear that.

Recently, I almost had a B36 for a great price and totally forgot about it while I was walking the dogs. I didn’t even think of putting a bid in. Sold for $80 I think.

I’ve been reading the 6SN7 Addicts thread. Started at page 1 and currently at 180. Great information in that thread and funny how prices have shot up from then.

I see good group of people *Brain Trust* in that thread in here.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Dang! Sorry to hear that.
> 
> Recently, I almost had a B36 for a great price and totally forgot about it while I was walking the dogs. I didn’t even think of putting a bid in. Sold for $80 I think.
> 
> ...


Hi P,
I was once out biking and nailed a tube lot on eBay because they sent out a notification when five minutes were left of the auction. 
It should be possible to make bids on your cell phone but to get notified it means that you had previously made a bid on that item.
Come to think of it I won a bid on my Beyerdynamic T1 Gen1 while driving (I did stop to make the winning bid).


----------



## leftside

I used to use auctionsniper.com when I collected records. Put in your high bid and forget about it. Avoids getting into a bidding war. Most "auctions" on eBay these days are "buy it now" though. Most of us record collectors of certain bands got to know each other. Used to be fun, but I'm glad I sold up and managed to beat one addiction.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> I used to use auctionsniper.com when I collected records. Put in your high bid and forget about it. Avoids getting into a bidding war. Most "auctions" on eBay these days are "buy it now" though. Most of us record collectors of certain bands got to know each other. Used to be fun, but I'm glad I sold up and managed to beat one addiction.


Hi leftside,
What did you do with your record collection? I have some 150 LPs sitting for many many years and I never listen to them, but I have almost everything on CD of those records plus many more CDs (that I also never use - put everything on my harddrive).


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> I used to use auctionsniper.com when I collected records. Put in your high bid and forget about it. Avoids getting into a bidding war. Most "auctions" on eBay these days are "buy it now" though. Most of us record collectors of certain bands got to know each other. Used to be fun, but I'm glad I sold up and managed to beat one addiction.



Hello LS...must still have some LP's, with that turntable so prominently displayed in your avatar?


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi P,
> I was once out biking and nailed a tube lot on eBay because they sent out a notification when five minutes were left of the auction.
> It should be possible to make bids on your cell phone but to get notified it means that you had previously made a bid on that item.
> Come to think of it I won a bid on my Beyerdynamic T1 Gen1 while driving (I did stop to make the winning bid).



I’m kicking myself for not putting in a bid. Ciest la vie.

I did want to ask you guys what the consensus was on the RCA 6sn7gtbs with orange letterings.


----------



## gibosi

While I haven't tried every American 6SN7GTB out there, it has been my experience that 6SN7GT manufactured in the 1940's, that is the earliest production, are better than the later GTB. But of course, my ears and my gear... YMMV.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Hi leftside,
> What did you do with your record collection? I have some 150 LPs sitting for many many years and I never listen to them, but I have almost everything on CD of those records plus many more CDs (that I also never use - put everything on my harddrive).





JazzVinyl said:


> Hello LS...must still have some LP's, with that turntable so prominently displayed in your avatar?


I only sold the collectible/expensive ones. I had lot's of punk and new wave test pressings and rare foreign presses. I suffered a nasty injury a few years ago from mountain biking, so had lot's of time to scan the covers/records and list on eBay and Discogs. I still have about 300-400 LPs and about 100 12"/EPs for playing. Wasn't listening this evening though as I was out mountain biking  I no longer have a single CD or SACD as I burnt them all to FLAC and ISO/DSF.


----------



## UntilThen

yates7592 said:


> Matt I got the sheepskin version (non fenestrated). I certainly don't feel as if anything is missing compared to stock. If anything,imaging is improved although I havn't done A/B.





musicman59 said:


> I just bought the velour version at Axpona. I listened to both the leather and velour and the velour fit better my taste. IMO the leather ones brought out a little more of their highs. The think the Velour are closer to the original Alcantara pads so the sound did not change and yes the soundstage presentation got better.
> 
> I also bout a pair of their Utopia velour pads and really like them.



Thanks Yates and Musicman for the feedback.


----------



## UntilThen

All this talk of vinyl reminds me of my forgotten TT.


----------



## UntilThen

I read with interest someone's synopsis of the differences between Tung Sol 6F8G black glass...

Flat Plates vs Round Plates:
Round plates have boosted bass and mid-bass which covers a little bit of the midrange. Flat plates are flat but with better defined treble and more air. They're just flat across whole frequency range have the same super sonic quality with Round Plates but better holography and air. Round plates have boosted bass and because of that, more body - but are not as transparent and clear.

Whilst I've not suss out such differences, I do note that the round plates I'm listening to now with 5998, have a very smooth and boosted bass presentation. Now this could be because of 5998 or the Eikon headphone I'm using.

Which leads me to note the differences between 5998 and 6 x 6BL7. 5998 has a more boosted bass, more body and air. 6 x 6BL7 is flatter but more defined and precise. Both have impressed me with the sound presented to my ears.

5 months on with Glenn's OTL amp, I'm still discovering the best possible tone that appeals to me with certain tube combinations. This combination of Tung Sol 6F8G black glass round plates and 5998 is my current favourite. Coupled with the fact that each time I power the amp on with these tubes, I get the ultra black background with no noise at all, it's enough to make me give it a 5 stars ratings.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Phantaminum said:


> Dang! Sorry to hear that.
> 
> Recently, I almost had a B36 for a great price and totally forgot about it while I was walking the dogs. I didn’t even think of putting a bid in. Sold for $80 I think.
> 
> ...


The addicts thread is a great resource, but can be very dangerous for your wallet.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I read with interest someone's synopsis of the differences between Tung Sol 6F8G black glass...
> 
> Flat Plates vs Round Plates:
> Round plates have boosted bass and mid-bass which covers a little bit of the midrange. Flat plates are flat but with better defined treble and more air. They're just flat across whole frequency range have the same super sonic quality with Round Plates but better holography and air. Round plates have boosted bass and because of that, more body - but are not as transparent and clear.
> ...


I don't see you have socket protector on the amp. Any reason for that?

I believe you are the most active tube rolling guy on the head-fi. 

Hope you don't have to change the socket in the future. It's a pain in the neck.  Any Glenn like to do. LOL


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> I don't see you have socket protector on the amp. Any reason for that?
> 
> I believe you are the most active tube rolling guy on the head-fi.
> 
> Hope you don't have to change the socket in the future. It's a pain in the neck.  Any Glenn like to do. LOL



It's a good idea to use them!!!!!!!!!!
Costly to send the amp back to the US


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> It's a good idea to use them!!!!!!!!!!
> Costly to send the amp back to the US



In a year's time I would like to replace it with Yamamoto's sockets..... if you have time. In the meantime the sockets are still good and I've settle on a few select tubes for the long run.


----------



## Sound Trooper (May 4, 2018)

@2359glenn Look at what dropped in today!

  

Initial thots.... da bass on the EL3N is amazing! If you have a planar headphone, you need to hear them with Glenn’s EL3N!!


----------



## jekjek

Sound Infinity said:


> @2359glenn Look at what dropped in today!
> 
> 
> 
> Initial thots.... da bass on the EL3N is amazing! If you have a planar headphone, you need to hear them with Glenn’s EL3N!!


Congrats @Sound Infinity


----------



## UntilThen

It's a smart looking amp.


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> It's a smart looking amp.


Is it going to be your next amp UT?


----------



## Sound Trooper

jekjek said:


> Congrats @Sound Infinity



Thanks bro, I’ll wait for it run in a bit before inviting you over for a listen.


----------



## jekjek

Sound Infinity said:


> Thanks bro, I’ll wait for it run in a bit before inviting you over for a listen.


Take your time


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Infinity said:


> @2359glenn Look at what dropped in today!
> 
> 
> 
> Initial thots.... da bass on the EL3N is amazing! If you have a planar headphone, you need to hear them with Glenn’s EL3N!!




Yeah, the bass is off the hook!
That is a real beauty.
Congrats and buckle up and enjoy the ride


----------



## lukeap69

Sound Infinity said:


> @2359glenn Look at what dropped in today!
> 
> 
> 
> Initial thots.... da bass on the EL3N is amazing! If you have a planar headphone, you need to hear them with Glenn’s EL3N!!


Wow. Very lovely amp. Is that an Audio-gd DAC? What model is it?


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, the bass is off the hook!
> That is a real beauty.
> Congrats and buckle up and enjoy the ride



Thanks! My HD6XX sounds really nice out of the EL3N as well!



lukeap69 said:


> Wow. Very lovely amp. Is that an Audio-gd DAC? What model is it?



Thanks! The audio-gd is an amp. The model is NFB-1amp.


----------



## UntilThen

jekjek said:


> Is it going to be your next amp UT?



Only time will tell. 

The wide chassis makes it looks more grand and the silver knobs are a good contrast.


----------



## lukeap69

Sound Infinity said:


> Thanks! The audio-gd is an amp. The model is NFB-1amp.



Oh it's an amp. I have the DAC version. It used to be called NFB-1 only until they've introduced the amp version. Enjoy your GEL3N!


----------



## jekjek

I got new toys too


----------



## Phantaminum

jekjek said:


> I got new toys too



Niiiiiiiiiiiice! Is that a Marconi rebrand?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sound Infinity said:


> @2359glenn Look at what dropped in today!
> 
> 
> 
> Initial thots.... da bass on the EL3N is amazing! If you have a planar headphone, you need to hear them with Glenn’s EL3N!!



Beautiful....!!!

Congrats!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

My TS 12SN7 BGRP will arrive today as well.."...


----------



## jekjek

Phantaminum said:


> Niiiiiiiiiiiice! Is that a Marconi rebrand?


I think so
It sounds buttery smooth.....


----------



## jekjek

JazzVinyl said:


> My TS 12SN7 BGRP will arrive today as well.."...


show us some pictures


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> Niiiiiiiiiiiice! Is that a Marconi rebrand?



MWT = Marconi's Wireless Telegraph Company

Due to numerous changes, mergers and acquisitions over many years, the precise relationship between Marconi, Osram and GEC is a bit complicated. But to my mind it is simplest to consider them as the same company, just different brands. For example, since all U52 were manufactured in the same factory, tubes carrying the Marconi label, the Osram label or the GEC label are identical. However, generally speaking, one can say that earlier production carried the Marconi and Osram labels and after around 1967, the GEC label was more common.


----------



## jekjek

You are right Ken
Its Marconi Wireless Telegraph Company


----------



## Xcalibur255

That's a lovely looking EL3N.  Congrats SI.


----------



## mordy (May 4, 2018)

gibosi said:


> MWT = Marconi's Wireless Telegraph Company
> 
> Due to numerous changes, mergers and acquisitions over many years, the precise relationship between Marconi, Osram and GEC is a bit complicated. But to my mind it is simplest to consider them as the same company, just different brands. For example, since all U52 were manufactured in the same factory, tubes carrying the Marconi label, the Osram label or the GEC label are identical. However, generally speaking, one can say that earlier production carried the Marconi and Osram labels and after around 1967, the GEC label was more common.


Hi gibosi,
There was a discussion about a Gold Lion tube a short time ago, and it was claimed that it was not a reissue, but a brand on its own.
I got the impression that this 12AU7 is a Genalex reissue tube. From seeing a picture of a Genalex box it looked very similar to a GEC box. Is Genalex another GEC brand?


----------



## nathanoakes (May 4, 2018)

Sup guys!  Anyone know where I can get some of those 6SN7 -> 6DE7 adapters for my WA6SE?  And would I be making the right decision getting those really sexy looking Psvane ones? 

Also, take a four second exposure of my setup.


----------



## mordy

Hi n,

Is this what you are looking for?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...759377&hash=item2ee4dabf6b:g:MRYAAOSwd0BVzql1


----------



## nathanoakes

Hey Mordy.
I have seen those, but I don't know a great deal about them.  I've heard that there are special adapters that 2359glenn makes that allows the tubes to be used with the 6SE, otherwise it'll kill the amp or the tubes.
Will they do the same job as Glenn's?


----------



## mordy

nathanoakes said:


> Hey Mordy.
> I have seen those, but I don't know a great deal about them.  I've heard that there are special adapters that 2359glenn makes that allows the tubes to be used with the 6SE, otherwise it'll kill the amp or the tubes.
> Will they do the same job as Glenn's?


Hi n,
I am not familiar with this - why don't you PM Glenn directly?


----------



## nathanoakes

Oh, I didn't think I could do that yet because my account is very new. Still, seems like this forum was created so people weren't constantly harassing him for his work.  I'll wait and see if anyone else can point me in the right direction first, or if he has time to reply here.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> There was a discussion about a Gold Lion tube a short time ago, and it was claimed that it was not a reissue, but a brand on its own.
> I got the impression that this 12AU7 is a Genalex reissue tube. From seeing a picture of a Genalex box it looked very similar to a GEC box. Is Genalex another GEC brand?



I have never seen any of the common OTL tubes, such as 6AS7, 6080, B36, B65, B729, U52, and so on, manufactured by MO/GEC and carrying the Genalex label. Further, after casually searching the web, the only references claiming that Genalex-branded tubes were actually manufactured by MO/GEC in the 1950's are tube vendors. So I have my doubts... 

That said, perhaps a small number of tubes that were very popular in the audio world of the 1950's, such as the KT88 and 12AX7, were actually manufactured by MO/GEC and sold under the Genalex label, but I simply don't know....

Be that as it may, New Sensor Corp is currently manufacturing and selling a number of tubes under the Genalex Gold Lion label. And of course, these are "new stock" as opposed to "old stock"...

But again, since I simply don't know, I think it is best for me to leave this to others who might be more familiar with Genalex....


----------



## gibosi

nathanoakes said:


> Hey Mordy.
> I have seen those, but I don't know a great deal about them.  I've heard that there are special adapters that 2359glenn makes that allows the tubes to be used with the 6SE, otherwise it'll kill the amp or the tubes.
> Will they do the same job as Glenn's?



I can't see any reason why they wouldn't work. After all, building simple adapters to reroute pins is not rocket science. While I don't have these particular adapters, I do have a large number of adapters crafted by a variety of eBay vendors, and they have all worked without a hitch.


----------



## nathanoakes

gibosi said:


> I can't see any reason why they wouldn't work. After all, building simple adapters to reroute pins is not rocket science. While I don't have these particular adapters, I do have a large number of adapters crafted by a variety of eBay vendors, and they have all worked without a hitch.



Yeah, I see your point and mostly agree.  I'm being a little over-cautious if anything because I don't want to break my stuff.  From what I've heard, the ones Glenn builds cuts the voltage/current slightly so they don't get overpowered?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is the TS 12SN7 BGRP. 

Sounds wonderful - will report more when I have heard more of it.


----------



## gibosi

nathanoakes said:


> Yeah, I see your point and mostly agree.  I'm being a little over-cautious if anything because I don't want to break my stuff.  From what I've heard, the ones Glenn builds cuts the voltage/current slightly so they don't get overpowered?



You really need to send a PM to Glenn about this. After all, the vast majority of us in this forum use Glenn's amps and thus it is likely that there is no one here who has experience with an adapter allowing the use of 6SN7 in a 6DE7-based amp.


----------



## nathanoakes

gibosi said:


> You really need to send a PM to Glenn about this. After all, the vast majority of us in this forum use Glenn's amps and thus it is likely that there is no one here who has experience with an adapter allowing the use of 6SN7 in a 6DE7-based amp.



Fair enough.  I didn't realise most people used his own builds.  Cheers for the heads up


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Here is the TS 12SN7 BGRP.
> 
> Sounds wonderful - will report more when I have heard more of it.



Very good. Will look forward to your report. Mine is stuck somewhere in Siberia. 

Meanwhile, how have I not yet discovered this gem that is sitting right under my nose. Not wanting to burn out my Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp and Tung Sol 5998, I started looking around my stash for a combination that I can use through Autumn and Winter. Yeah it's starting to get cold. Weather is a funny thing. It's hot then it's cold.

Anyway my eyes rest upon the chunky Cetron 6336b. That's definitely a good candidate to heat the room and I also noticed the pair of Brimar 13D1 that I bought from Langrex on the 3rd of Oct 2017 for 20 pounds and have not use it much.

Pop the Brimar 13D1 and Cetron 6336b in and viola, they are very quiet tubes and crystal clear. Cymbals crash like they should and kick drums kick like they should too - with impact. I've found my tubes for the cold months ahead.

I suggest you write to Mr Langrex and ask for these Brimar 13D1. He might still have them. Hardly anyone uses these 25 volts tubes. At 10 pounds a tube, they are about the best bang for winter ..... and all the other seasons.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> But again, since I simply don't know, I think it is best for me to leave this to others who might be more familiar with Genalex.


Genalex was a brand used by GEC for tube sales in markets (read US) where GEC was deemed too close to an established brand (read GE).


----------



## UntilThen (May 4, 2018)

What a surprise. My TS 12sn7gt arrived. How did it get here so quickly from US?

Looks so new. Lettering in yellow.

It has the words Jan-Ctl-12sn7 and copper rods on top.


----------



## JazzVinyl (May 4, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> What a surprise. My TS 12sn7gt arrived. How did it get here so quickly from US?
> 
> Looks so new. Lettering in yellow.
> 
> It has the words Jan-Ctl-12sn7 and copper rods on top.



Mine says JAN-CTL12SN7GT
3228 52

1952?

The 322 is supposed to identify the manufacturer...322  = Tung Sol


----------



## gibosi (May 4, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Mine says JAN-CTL12SN6GT
> 3228 52
> 
> 1952?



I am assuming this is a TS Black Glass Round Plate? I don't think they were still making these as late as 1952...  I would guess 8 = 1948 and 52 equal the week.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> I am assuming this is a TS Black Glass Round Plate? I don't think they were still making these as late as 1952... I would guess 8 = 1948 and 52 equal the week.



Yes we both have the TS 12sn7gt black glass round plate but my numbering is not visible anymore. If it's 1948 that's a pretty old tube.

Mine is under going the mandatory cleaning and gold Deoxit before using it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Yes we both have the TS 12sn7gt black glass round plate but my numbering is not visible anymore. If it's 1948 that's a pretty old tube.
> 
> Mine is under going the mandatory cleaning and gold Deoxit before using it.



1948! Even better 

Mine is usable as is...looks like less than average use.  It's nice and quiet.

My impression this far is that it is super smooth.  Tons of deep deep bass.  Handles the sound stage very differently from 6SN7W but I like it.

Using 6 pack of 6BL7, will switch to TS 5998's and see what's what.


----------



## gibosi (May 5, 2018)

The BGRP were manufactured beginning in about 1942 through the late 1940's. So 1948 may well be one of the last ones. It was replaced with the mouse ears version. Here is a mouse ear's prototype, without the "ears", dated 1949.


----------



## UntilThen

1st listen with HD800. My go to headphone for tube evaluations. 

First thought is super quiet !!! Bonus !!! Second thought is that this sounded very similar to the Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp with 5998. How different or similar that I can't quantify because this tone at present is imprinted in my mind. 

Sound impressions.

Smooth and yet revealing. Rich and magical mids and bass done right. Not over emphasised nor weak. Great bass in fact. I would add lush but not creamy. Moist. Very linear. Very good tone with 5998.

Now for the obligatory photo and for @attmci , there are socket savers now.


----------



## JazzVinyl (May 5, 2018)

Beautiful thick even bass.   Has quite a bit more bass than 6SN7W.  Somewhat less air around instruments than the Sylvania.  But soundstage is wider, less tall on the BGRP, and that is a good thing.  Perhaps less nuetral,  warmer than 6SN7W as well but also a good trait in my book.

The bad thing: its addictive!
Want to hear everything as the TS 12SN7 BGRP interprets it!


----------



## UntilThen (May 5, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Beautiful thick even bass. Has quite a bit more bass than 6SN7W. Somewhat less air around instruments than the Sylvania. But soundstage is wider, less tall on the BGRP, and that is a good thing. Perhaps less nuetral, warmer than 6SN7W as well but also a good trait in my book.



You describe it correctly. Accurate descriptions of the 2 wonderful sounding 6sn7.

I have the TS 12sn7gt bgrp paired with 6 x 6BL7, Cetron 6336b and Gec 6as7g. Just such a lovely sounding tube. I can't stop listening. I bend MrsXuLing's arm to give me a discount on 5 addtional gold plated octal savers.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> 1st listen with HD800. My go to headphone for tube evaluations.
> 
> First thought is super quiet !!! Bonus !!! Second thought is that this sounded very similar to the Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp with 5998. How different or similar that I can't quantify because this tone at present is imprinted in my mind.
> 
> ...




Glad to see you threw some sockets savers in there 
Great idea for those who roll tubes often.

You & JV enjoy those 12SN7GT Tung Sol BGRP
You both got a nice military approved tube also, built for the Army/Navy


----------



## UntilThen

I did a back to back with Tung Sol 6sn7gt mouse ears and Tung Sol 12sn7gt black glass round plates..... with good ole Cetron 6336b for powers duties. 

The mouse ears went in first and I'm like  .... 'this is great. What am I missing !' Clear and infectious bass. Then the black glass went in and the difference is not subtle. It's obvious. BGRP is like a delicate fabric, intricately woven. It's like Chatham 6as7g and Gec 6as7g kind of difference.

Kicking back and enjoying Tung Sol 12sn7gt bgrp with Cetron 6336b now. Good combination. Happy that this 12sn7 tube didn't cost a bomb and would be amongst my favourite drivers in GOTL for years to come.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Day 2 with the EL3N

I have about close to 20 hours on the amp now and I couldn’t be happier. The amp is dead silent and the chassis doesn’t feel hot. In fact, my audio-gd feels warmer to touch than the EL3N. 

Da bass, it’s to die for. It’s very controlled and has a nice texture to it. So far, I feel the LCD-2 pairs very well with the EL3N and the bass on the Abyss gained another dimension as compared to the NFB1. The EL3N has plenty of power in 2 tube mode and drives the Abyss with authority. Another observation, the EL3N is really clean sounding. It sounds more like a big solid state amp than a tube amp.


----------



## whirlwind (May 5, 2018)

No worries about this amp running hot...it is not going to happen 

The rectifier gets a bit warm...but those EL3N tubes are the coolest running tubes , you can put your hand on the chassis and it will be cool/luke warm at most.

I  am going to grab me another pair of planars at some point, because the Ori bass is wonderful with this amp.
I want more planar bass!


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> No worries about this amp running hot...it is not going to happen
> 
> The rectifier gets a bit warm...but those EL3N tubes are the coolest running tubes , you can put your hand on the chassis and it will be cool/luke warm at most.
> 
> ...



Agreed! Even in hot Singapore (where the average temperature is 30degC) the EL3N runs only Luke warm.

Try the abyss, it’s the best bass I have ever heard.


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Infinity said:


> Day 2 with the EL3N
> 
> I have about close to 20 hours on the amp now and I couldn’t be happier. The amp is dead silent and the chassis doesn’t feel hot. In fact, my audio-gd feels warmer to touch than the EL3N.
> 
> Da bass, it’s to die for. It’s very controlled and has a nice texture to it. So far, I feel the LCD-2 pairs very well with the EL3N and the bass on the Abyss gained another dimension as compared to the NFB1. The EL3N has plenty of power in 2 tube mode and drives the Abyss with authority. Another observation, the EL3N is really clean sounding. It sounds more like a big solid state amp than a tube amp.



Hi Sam
You will be supprised how good speakers sound on this little amp.
I did forget to put the HEXFRED in the box I will send that next week.
Here is a pic of the underside of your amp.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Thanks Glenn, looks absolutely stunning!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Hi Sam
> You will be supprised how good speakers sound on this little amp.
> I did forget to put the HEXFRED in the box I will send that next week.
> Here is a pic of the underside of your amp.



Very nice Glenn...wish I could solder that well


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Infinity said:


> Thanks Glenn, looks absolutely stunning!



The hardest part building this amp was wiring the 8 ohm 32 ohm switch 16 wires from each output transformer.


----------



## musicman59

Sound Infinity said:


> Day 2 with the EL3N
> 
> I have about close to 20 hours on the amp now and I couldn’t be happier. The amp is dead silent and the chassis doesn’t feel hot. In fact, my audio-gd feels warmer to touch than the EL3N.
> 
> Da bass, it’s to die for. It’s very controlled and has a nice texture to it. So far, I feel the LCD-2 pairs very well with the EL3N and the bass on the Abyss gained another dimension as compared to the NFB1. The EL3N has plenty of power in 2 tube mode and drives the Abyss with authority. Another observation, the EL3N is really clean sounding. It sounds more like a big solid state amp than a tube amp.


Are the functions of the 3 knobs at the front Volume, Input Selector and Headphones/Speakers selector?


----------



## Sound Trooper

musicman59 said:


> Are the functions of the 3 knobs at the front Volume, Input Selector and Headphones/Speakers selector?



The left knob is for impedance (8 & 32ohms)
Center knob is for volume
Right knob is for single and 2 tube mode


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> The hardest part building this amp was wiring the 8 ohm 32 ohm switch 16 wires from each output transformer.



I’ll start to look around for speakers soon!


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> The EL3N has plenty of power in 2 tube mode and drives the Abyss with authority. Another observation, the EL3N is really clean sounding. It sounds more like a big solid state amp than a tube amp.



The GEL3N has a lot of grunt if it can drive the Abyss with authority. I have to crank up the volume on my Ragnarok with the Abyss.

This neutral and transparent sounding amp is totally different from what I heard on Elise with the self improvised 6 x EL3N - which is warm and lush.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> The GEL3N has a lot of grunt if it can drive the Abyss with authority. I have to crank up the volume on my Ragnarok with the Abyss.
> 
> This neutral and transparent sounding amp is totally different from what I heard on Elise with the self improvised 6 x EL3N - which is warm and lush.



Hi UT, let me know when you pass thru. You are welcome to come for a listen.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> Hi UT, let me know when you pass thru. You are welcome to come for a listen.


 
Thanks. Looking forward to listening to it. 

Let me know how it sounds when you do hook up a pair of speakers to it.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn, do you have a picture of my amp bottom?


----------



## Sound Trooper

It’s time for the LCD-2F to have some EL3N magic..


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Infinity said:


> It’s time for the LCD-2F to have some EL3N magic..



Great gear!


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Yes we both have the TS 12sn7gt black glass round plate but my numbering is not visible anymore. If it's 1948 that's a pretty old tube.
> 
> Mine is under going the mandatory cleaning and gold Deoxit before using it.



And there are three versions of this tube, one with a round mica spacer, one with an oval mica spacer and metal springs, and the third, with flat plates and square mica, like the similar 6F8G. I believe that the version with the round mica spacer was the latest.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> And there are three versions of this tube, one with a round mica spacer, one with an oval mica spacer and metal springs, and the third, with flat plates and square mica, like the similar 6F8G. I believe that the version with the round mica spacer was the latest.



Great info, Gibosi....

Mine appears to have the oval mica:


----------



## whirlwind (May 5, 2018)

6 and 12 volt versions here....both are oval mica
My 6F8G tubes have the same oval mica also

Great pics as always gibosi.


----------



## lukeap69

Sound Infinity said:


> I’ll start to look around for speakers soon!


Yes, try it with KEF LS50.


----------



## gibosi

I am pleased to report that embossed Telefunken C3g do in fact exist.


----------



## UntilThen (May 5, 2018)

Sound Infinity said:


> It’s time for the LCD-2F to have some EL3N magic..



I have the LCD-2f. How does it sound with the EL3N amp?

LCD-2f sounds natural and beautiful on the OTL amp. Great synergy. My volume is just shy of half way using Cetron 6336b tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> And there are three versions of this tube, one with a round mica spacer, one with an oval mica spacer and metal springs, and the third, with flat plates and square mica, like the similar 6F8G. I believe that the version with the round mica spacer was the latest.



Superb pictures and info. My TS 12sn7gt has the oval mica.

I have a pair of 6F8G with oval mica and round plates and a single 6F8G with square mica and flat plates.

Didn't even notice the square mica. Don't normally look from the top.


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Infinity said:


> I’ll start to look around for speakers soon!





Sound Infinity said:


> I’ll start to look around for speakers soon!



Try to get efficient speakers the amp is only 1.5 watts. Did sound good on my 89db speakers.
If you can get more efficient then that it would be better.
Even though Lucy asked me to lower the volume i did have it loud told her I testing the amp. 
It has good bass on speakers too as good as with the phones.


----------



## gibosi

On the left, with the yellow paper band, Siemens. In the center, with no paper band, Telefunken. And to the right, with the blue paper band, Lorenz. I would guess that all these embossed C3g were manufactured sometime between the mid 1950's and the mid-1960's.

I don't have the patience or the ears to do serious in-depth comparisons, but in summation, it is in the treble region where these tubes differ the most, with the Lorenz being more subdued and darker, the Siemens being in the middle, and the Telefunken being the brightest.

And this doesn't surprise me as the Telefunken house sound is pretty bright. Even so, with Glenn's HEXFRED plug-in rectifier and Tung-Sol 6BX7GT, the Telefunken's extra treble energy and air makes for a fun sound.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> On the left, with the yellow paper band, Siemens. In the center, with no paper band, Telefunken. And to the right, with the blue paper band, Lorenz. I would guess that all these embossed C3g were manufactured sometime between the mid 1950's and the mid-1960's.
> 
> I don't have the patience or the ears to do serious in-depth comparisons, but in summation, it is in the treble region where these tubes differ the most, with the Lorenz being more subdued and darker, the Siemens being in the middle, and the Telefunken being the brightest.
> 
> And this doesn't surprise me as the Telefunken house sound is pretty bright. Even so, with Glenn's HEXFRED plug-in rectifier and Tung-Sol 6BX7GT, the Telefunken's extra treble energy and air makes for a fun sound.



You found an embossed Telefunken c3g! Thanks for your impression on their differences.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> You found an embossed Telefunken c3g! Thanks for your impression on their differences.



Yes! These are pretty scarce.... I have been looking for over two years and finally found a pair!


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> Yes! These are pretty scarce.... I have been looking for over two years and finally found a pair!



I never see them before Ken
Great find!


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> Try to get efficient speakers the amp is only 1.5 watts. Did sound good on my 89db speakers.
> If you can get more efficient then that it would be better.
> Even though Lucy asked me to lower the volume i did have it loud told her I testing the amp.
> It has good bass on speakers too as good as with the phones.



Hi Glenn, yes I’ll be looking around for speakers in about 1-2months time. Will lug the EL3N to the different showrooms to try with different speakers. I’ll narrow my search to speakers which are 89db n above.



whirlwind said:


> Great gear!



Thanks!



lukeap69 said:


> Yes, try it with KEF LS50.



The LS50 has an efficiency of 85db, might be difficult to run with the EL3N, but I’ll still give it a go.



UntilThen said:


> I have the LCD-2f. How does it sound with the EL3N amp?
> 
> LCD-2f sounds natural and beautiful on the OTL amp. Great synergy. My volume is just shy of half way using Cetron 6336b tubes.



IMHO, the LCD-2F pairs wonderfully with the EL3N. It’s the best I have heard from the LCD-2F and this is coming from running them out of a burson Virtuoso, Cavalli liquid carbon V2 and audio-gd nfb-1amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> Hi Glenn, yes I’ll be looking around for speakers in about 1-2months time. Will lug the EL3N to the different showrooms to try with different speakers. I’ll narrow my search to speakers which are 89db n above.



Couple of efficient small speakers comes to mind.

Rega R1 - 8 ohms 90db
KEF Q60 - 8 ohms 90db
Klipsch Heresy III - 99db


----------



## UntilThen

Love the combination of Tung Sol 12sn7gt black glass round plates with Cetron 6336b. This is just so so enjoyable. What a tone !!

Also I've seen the bottom of the OTL amp. Amazing work there from a master craftsman. Point to point wiring, so neat, it's a work of art. It's pretty complex with a lot of wiring for the 6 x 6BL7 OTL amp. If you're waiting on one, be patient. I can see a lot of man hours goes into building this amp.


----------



## lukeap69

Sound Infinity said:


> The LS50 has an efficiency of 85db, might be difficult to run with the EL3N, but I’ll still give it a go.



Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> The LS50 has an efficiency of 85db, might be difficult to run with the EL3N, but I’ll still give it a go.



Would you also give the Axis Voicebox a go. They can be found in Spore at AudioRev. 

https://audiorev.net/


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Infinity said:


> Hi Glenn, yes I’ll be looking around for speakers in about 1-2months time. Will lug the EL3N to the different showrooms to try with different speakers. I’ll narrow my search to speakers which are 89db n above.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your going to lug that around at 20 Kilograms should have made it heavier only the 300B is heavier.


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> Your going to lug that around at 20 Kilograms should have made it heavier only the 300B is heavier.



20kgs is heavy enough... Those Lundahls are really heavy!


----------



## 2359glenn

Sam
Glad you are liking the amp!
Let me know when you try the EL3s maybe a different sound.


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> Sam
> Glad you are liking the amp!
> Let me know when you try the EL3s maybe a different sound.



Sure Glenn, I’ll be picking them up next week.


----------



## UntilThen

Just won this at an auction cheap. A Tung Sol 12sl7gt black glass round plates. This has an amplification of 70. The ECC35 has an amplification of 68.

Let's see how the 12sl7 sounds on the GOTL.

Meanwhile the TS 12sn7gt and 6336b sounds marvellous. Tight not bloomy, lively not dull and the bass is amazing with LCD-2f.


----------



## mordy (May 6, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Just won this at an auction cheap. A Tung Sol 12sl7gt black glass round plates. This has an amplification of 70. The ECC35 has an amplification of 68.
> 
> Let's see how the 12sl7 sounds on the GOTL.
> 
> Meanwhile the TS 12sn7gt and 6336b sounds marvellous. Tight not bloomy, lively not dull and the bass is amazing with LCD-2f.


Hi UT,

Perhaps I am experiencing somewhat of a similar sound with the Euforia using the 6336B and a pair of RCA 6N7 from 1942. 
After an hour or two these 6N7 tubes that are even older than me have woken up - WOW!!!!
I believe you have these tubes with the same pinout as the ECC31. If you do, and if they work in the Glenn OTL, please give them a try... You'll be in for a surprise!
Super detail top to bottom, open and airy, extremely lively and engaging - can't sit still!


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I'll give the 6N7 a whirl tonight. Mine is Marconi branded.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Just won this at an auction cheap. A Tung Sol 12sl7gt black glass round plates. This has an amplification of 70. The ECC35 has an amplification of 68.
> 
> Let's see how the 12sl7 sounds on the GOTL.
> 
> Meanwhile the TS 12sn7gt and 6336b sounds marvellous. Tight not bloomy, lively not dull and the bass is amazing with LCD-2f.


If you like the LCD2, you should try the LCD3. Especially if you like bass. Used prices are very good.


----------



## rnros

Sound Infinity said:


> Day 2 with the EL3N
> 
> I have about close to 20 hours on the amp now and I couldn’t be happier. The amp is dead silent and the chassis doesn’t feel hot. In fact, my audio-gd feels warmer to touch than the EL3N.
> 
> Da bass, it’s to die for. It’s very controlled and has a nice texture to it. So far, I feel the LCD-2 pairs very well with the EL3N and the bass on the Abyss gained another dimension as compared to the NFB1. The EL3N has plenty of power in 2 tube mode and drives the Abyss with authority. Another observation, the EL3N is really clean sounding. It sounds more like a big solid state amp than a tube amp.



Congrats, BEAUTIFUL GEL3N.


----------



## rnros (May 6, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Perhaps I am experiencing somewhat of a similar sound with the Euforia using the 6336B and a pair of RCA 6N7 from 1942.
> After an hour or two these 6N7 tubes that are even older than me have woken up - WOW!!!!
> ...



Have been listening to FIVRE and Ken Rad 6N7, also with CTN.6336B. Great tubes.

Some very reasonable '40s FIVRE 6N7, about $65/pair, auctions ending soon:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_PrefLoc=2&_sacat=293&_nkw=fivre+6n7g


----------



## mordy

Hi rnros,
The Fivre 6N7G have a market value currently of around $85 each shipped, but I was speaking about the 6N7 black metal tubes which are considerable less:





This Ken-Rad pair is currently for sale for around $14 including shipping.
Tried to get information on the 6N7 tubes in the past but did not find much. In summary: The amplification factor is 35, the current draw is 0.8A and they don't sell well because there is no tube glow....
But with the 6336B they sing beautifully.


----------



## leftside

300B owners: heard of the AVVT mesh plate 300B tubes? Any good?


----------



## rnros

Thanks @mordy, I'll give those a try.


----------



## JazzVinyl (May 6, 2018)

Syl 6SN7W and 6x 6BX7's for me...sounds like a million bucks!

Thanks again, Glenn...


----------



## 2359glenn

That is why the amp has six output tube sockets to use 6BX7/6BL7 great sound for the price but the price is going up.
Been using this tube about 50 years still have a amp I built when I was 12. Has 6SL7>6SN7>6BL7 has output transformer
and puts out 11 watts. Don't use it only mono I am a pac rat and save everything nostalgia.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Perhaps I am experiencing somewhat of a similar sound with the Euforia using the 6336B and a pair of RCA 6N7 from 1942.
> After an hour or two these 6N7 tubes that are even older than me have woken up - WOW!!!!
> ...



Wow Mordy, great tone indeed. 6N7 is sharper and leaner. In combination with 6336b, the focus snaps into place. I can see why you can't keep still. Unfortunately my pair of Marconi 6N7 has a soft hum. Apart from that, I really like this tone.



rnros said:


> Have been listening to FIVRE and Ken Rad 6N7, also with CTN.6336B. Great tubes.



I think you're referring to 6N7G instead of 6N7. I tried Fivre, Fivre brown base and Mazda ( Visseaux ) 6N7G with Cetron 6336b. I can't agree with you more. These are great sounding tubes and they pair so well with the Cetron 6336b.

Below are my 6N7 tubes:-

Fivre 6N7G, Fivre 6N7G brown base, Mazda 6N7G and Marconi 6N7.


----------



## musicman59

UntilThen said:


> Couple of efficient small speakers comes to mind.
> 
> Rega R1 - 8 ohms 90db
> KEF Q60 - 8 ohms 90db
> Klipsch Heresy III - 99db



In almost the same footprint than the Heresy I would go with the Forte III but if size is not an issue my personal Klipsch favorite is the Cornwall.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (May 7, 2018)

Sound Infinity said:


> I’ll start to look around for speakers soon!



I bet that amp would really love to meet a pair of Zu Audio Omens.

I personally wouldn't venture anywhere south of 95dB sensitivity with only 1.5 watts of output power on hand.  Glenn's amps are super quiet so I don't think you'll run into hum issues even with very sensitive speakers.


----------



## UntilThen

All this talk about speakers makes me want to listen to my speakers again.


----------



## UntilThen

Because of Mordy and Ros, I am listening to these tubes now. It's really good !

.... and it's really quiet. No noise at all.

There really is no shortage of great tubes for the OTL amp.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I think you're referring to 6N7G instead of 6N7. I tried Fivre, Fivre brown base and Mazda ( Visseaux ) 6N7G with Cetron 6336b. I can't agree with you more. These are great sounding tubes and they pair so well with the Cetron 6336b.
> 
> Below are my 6N7 tubes:-
> 
> Fivre 6N7G, Fivre 6N7G brown base, Mazda 6N7G and Marconi 6N7.



Thanks UT, yes I was. Haven't heard the metal case version yet. Nice photo of those beautiful tubes. : )
Have a good bit of time with the FIVRE 6N7Gs, definitely one of my favorites with CTN.6336B. Also great with 5998. Need to try them with the 6BX7.
My FIVRE gray glass and clear glass are different, but both very good.
Tried a couple of the 6A6 type, my FIVRE 6A6 has similar SQ to FIVRE 6N7G. Not surprising since construction is similar except for the base difference.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Because of Mordy and Ros, I am listening to these tubes now. It's really good !
> 
> .... and it's really quiet. No noise at all.
> 
> *There really is no shortage of great tubes for the OTL amp.*



THAT is definitely one of my top three tube combinations.  
(FIVRE grey glass/round mica 6N7G w/ CTN.6336B.)
But as you said, no shortage of great tubes for the GOTL. Seems to bring out the best in any tube.


----------



## UntilThen

Unfortunately my 6A6 hums like banshee. I think my adapters are defective. Need to get new ones.

I have many 6A6 including this nice pair of Fivre.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Unfortunately my 6A6 hums like banshee. I think my adapters are defective. Need to get new ones.
> 
> I have many 6A6 including this nice pair of Fivre.



Only have one of the FIVRE 6A6, clear glass/small decal, very quiet. And only one adapter. Other 6A6s also quiet with that adapter.
If both of those are noisy, makes sense, might be the adapter.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> All this talk about speakers makes me want to listen to my speakers again.





UntilThen said:


> All this talk about speakers makes me want to listen to my speakers again.



Now you need a nice tube amp to drive them with. Something with EL34s would sound good.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Now you need a nice tube amp to drive them with. Something with EL34s would sound good.


For sure!  KT88's or 6550's are not bad either. Don't need to spend big bux on the KT88 either as Genelex make a nice reissue.


----------



## UntilThen

Don't tempt me guys. I got rid of my Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP with a bit of remorse but the solid state Redgum seems to be doing a good job.

It's just that tubes are so much more alluring.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Don't tempt me guys. I got rid of my Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP with a bit of remorse but the solid state Redgum seems to be doing a good job.
> 
> It's just that tubes are so much more alluring.



@UntilThen

*Sennheiser HD800 SXC 18awg ALO Headphone Cable*

Release the FULL potential of your HD800 headphone! The HD800 is arguably the worlds finest production headphone you can buy today. However the headphone cable is easy the weakest link of this product. The cable is made using a very thin 36awg wire, which hamstrings the headphone from reaching its physical potential in sonics. The *stock HD800 cable is unable to produce the low end needed to fully balance the sound that the HD800 is capable of producing. Compounding the low end deficiencies the stock headphone cable also suffers from 'hot' treble, resulting in fatigue when listening for any length of time* . ALO eliminates this weak link with a proper audiophile headphone cable that will generate *a fuller warmer expanded bottom end bass, sound noticeably less shrill, with greater body vs. the stock headphone cable* .


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> @UntilThen
> 
> *Sennheiser HD800 SXC 18awg ALO Headphone Cable*
> 
> Release the FULL potential of your HD800 headphone! The HD800 is arguably the worlds finest production headphone you can buy today. However the headphone cable is easy the weakest link of this product. The cable is made using a very thin 36awg wire, which hamstrings the headphone from reaching its physical potential in sonics. The *stock HD800 cable is unable to produce the low end needed to fully balance the sound that the HD800 is capable of producing. Compounding the low end deficiencies the stock headphone cable also suffers from 'hot' treble, resulting in fatigue when listening for any length of time* . ALO eliminates this weak link with a proper audiophile headphone cable that will generate *a fuller warmer expanded bottom end bass, sound noticeably less shrill, with greater body vs. the stock headphone cable* .



Just plug the HD-800 into a proper amp and it will sound great whatever cable it has.


----------



## Khragon

Who's the lucky new owner for the Glenn OTL?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sol...mplifier-like-new-plus-a-lot-of-tubes.879166/

I tried to buy it but was too late.


----------



## attmci

@UntilThen     Guess who to blame?

"I have found myself spending more time rolling tubes than listening to music! I have reluctantly decided that tube amplifiers and tube rolling in general are just not for me and that I need to make things simple for myself again."


----------



## Phantaminum

Khragon said:


> Who's the lucky new owner for the Glenn OTL?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sol...mplifier-like-new-plus-a-lot-of-tubes.879166/
> 
> I tried to buy it but was too late.



Makes me wonder if Yates is moving to a GEL3N amp instead.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> @UntilThen     Guess who to blame?
> 
> "I have found myself spending more time rolling tubes than listening to music! I have reluctantly decided that tube amplifiers and tube rolling in general are just not for me and that I need to make things simple for myself again."



LOL guess I have been a bad influence but I have never seen a tube amp sold so quickly.


----------



## JazzVinyl

You can have my Glenn and 6x 6BX7's and Syl 6SN7W when you prey them from my.....

That is all I have to say.


----------



## UntilThen

I have a doberman guarding my OTL amp and don't even think of touching my tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I do understand.  Have been many times in my life when i wished I didn’t have the desire to “chase the sweet tone”.  

But on the other hand, it has been my constant companion and has ‘saved me’ many times, too. 

Hope Yates finds aural happiness. 

Back to Rebecca Pidgeon and Diana Krall, y’all...


----------



## Sound Trooper

Just as I was thinking about sending Yates a PM on the GOTL yesterday, it was gone. 

Well.. back to my EL3N then!


----------



## Monsterzero

Best of luck to Yates. I wish he'd posted it for sale here first,I do believe my brother wouldve jumped on it.

On a different front, can anyone provide a link for recommended,tried and true socket savers for my up coming GOTL.

TIA


----------



## yates7592 (May 8, 2018)

Hi guys,
Well I wouldn't blame UT, he has given me much help! But it's true, I found it very hard just to settle and listen and enjoy, rather than tinker and tweak and swap tubes. Maybe with time this would have settled down, or maybe not! I will say the lucky owner is a visitor to this forum, I will leave that to him to announce himself. Thanks also to Glenn for his amazing build, and the hassle free replacement of the original noisy Lundahl in my amp with a new silent one (at his cost as well, even though Lundahl should have paid IMO). And thanks to everyone else who has helped me in pm exchanges. I do have a few tubes left that I'm going to list separately.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tub...-ecc31-gz34-cossor-53ku-fb-fivre-6bx7.879251/


----------



## leftside

Surprised the amp was listed for so long (5 hours). My record selling on here was 5 mins for the HE6 headphones.

@yates7592 I can understand why you sold. I've recently gone down the tube rolling rat hole again with my Mac amp and preamps... And I might have also bought a few tubes for my upcoming GOTL... How about getting the 300B or the GELN? The price of tubes on the 300B will stop you from tube rolling, and there's not too many variations of the C3Gs.


----------



## 2359glenn

Khragon said:


> Who's the lucky new owner for the Glenn OTL?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sol...mplifier-like-new-plus-a-lot-of-tubes.879166/
> 
> I tried to buy it but was too late.



I am getting it back to switch it to 120 volts and change the fuse then ship to the new owner.


----------



## 2359glenn

yates7592 said:


> Hi guys,
> Well I wouldn't blame UT, he has given me much help! But it's true, I found it very hard just to settle and listen and enjoy, rather than tinker and tweak and swap tubes. Maybe with time this would have settled down, or maybe not! I will say the lucky owner is a visitor to this forum, I will leave that to him to announce himself. Thanks also to Glenn for his amazing build, and the hassle free replacement of the original noisy Lundahl in my amp with a new silent one (at his cost as well, even though Lundahl should have paid IMO). And thanks to everyone else who has helped me in pm exchanges. I do have a few tubes left that I'm going to list separately. Anybody interested pm me before I put them on general sale, all NOS and lightly/unused, shipped prices:
> Cossor 53ku fat bottle x2 (£100 each, no boxes)
> Mullard gz32 x2 (£40 each, Langrex)
> ...



You need a amp like the EL3N really no tube rolling with that other then the EL3 or the rectifier. Get it with HEXFREDS no rectifier tube


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> On a different front, can anyone provide a link for recommended,tried and true socket savers for my up coming GOTL.



This. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-Oct...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## UntilThen

You're welcome Yates. Whoever bought your amp has a great bargain with all those tubes and adapters thrown in.

In reality you don't need to tube roll to enjoy the Glenn Super 10 OTL amp. Just pop in the 6 x 6BX7 and a driver of your choice and let it go. 

Anyway good luck with your future audio journey. It's been a pleasure talking to you.


----------



## whirlwind

Khragon said:


> Who's the lucky new owner for the Glenn OTL?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sol...mplifier-like-new-plus-a-lot-of-tubes.879166/
> 
> I tried to buy it but was too late.




Well, looks like it lasted about 5 hours or so.

I have never seen one last very long when up for sale.

Good thing i did not see it...may have bought it.


----------



## attmci (May 8, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> Well, looks like it lasted about 5 hours or so.
> 
> I have never seen one last very long when up for sale.
> 
> Good thing i did not see it...may have bought it.


No, you should go to 300B ASAP. 

Looking at Yates tube collections makes me to think.

Yes, I want all those tubes, but should I spend that much $$$ in such a short time?

Hmmm


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> No, you should go to 300B ASAP.
> 
> Looking at Yates tube collections makes me to think.
> 
> ...



I think the EL3N is the way to go sounds as good as the 300B and the tubes cost $20 each.
I can't deal with tubes that cost over $1000 each. May change my 300B speaker amps to EL34s in parallel single ended.
Got pissed off when the filament in one of my KR globe 300Bs burned out $1000 down the drain. Now I am using
one KR and one Sovtek so I have something to listen to.


----------



## lukeap69 (May 8, 2018)

Glenn

How much would an EL34 amp for speaker cost?


----------



## Khragon

I shouldn't be asking this, as I'm saving up to get a set of Zu Soul Supreme, but yeah, how much for an EL34?


----------



## mordy

Just got the beautifully made Polish adapters for my TS 6F8G tubes and now listening to them with 10A worth of American Muscle 6336B tubes:




Gorgoeus sound stage and tone - a soundscape of majestic romantic beauty....
Not as hard hitting and punchy as some other combos but makes it up with it's beauty...
(This is an initial impression subject to change.)
Having these tubes, do I need the TS 6SN7/12SN7 black round plates?


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> I think the EL3N is the way to go sounds as good as the 300B and the tubes cost $20 each.
> I can't deal with tubes that cost over $1000 each. May change my 300B speaker amps to EL34s in parallel single ended.
> Got pissed off when the filament in one of my KR globe 300Bs burned out $1000 down the drain. Now I am using
> one KR and one Sovtek so I have something to listen to.


I don't have the EL3N or the GOTL (yet), but my WA22 with the right tubes drives the LCD3 with no problem, and of course the 300B does as well. But, the WA22 struggles a little with the LCD4. As soon as I plugged the LCD4 into the 300B it was like the 300B was saying to me "ok - now I'm really going to show you what I can do". The LCD4s are hard to drive, but the 300B doesn't even break a sweat and in fact seems to like the challenge.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Khragon said:


> Who's the lucky new owner for the Glenn OTL?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sol...mplifier-like-new-plus-a-lot-of-tubes.879166/
> 
> I tried to buy it but was too late.



I feel this is a good example of the double-edged sword that having all these tube rolling options becomes.  It can lead to some obsessive behavior and burn out the hobby.  It's fun in the short term, but long term I feel the KISS approach is wiser.

Nothing but my opinion of course.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Just got the beautifully made Polish adapters for my TS 6F8G tubes and now listening to them with 10A worth of American Muscle 6336B tubes:
> 
> Gorgoeus sound stage and tone - a soundscape of majestic romantic beauty....
> Not as hard hitting and punchy as some other combos but makes it up with it's beauty...
> ...



Your description of them, certainly reminds me of my TS 12SN7GT BGRP's!

Only UT has both, I'm sure he will weigh in.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy those are the adapters I'd recommend. Very well made. The TS 6F8G bgrp sounds similar to TS 12SN7gt bgrp. No need to go hunting for the latter.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Mordy those are the adapters I'd recommend. Very well made. The TS 6F8G bgrp sounds similar to TS 12SN7gt bgrp. No need to go hunting for the latter.


Looking forward to trying the 6F8G in the GOTL! They were always noisy in the WA22.

Had fun this weekend tube rolling with some of the newer tubes I've purchased for the GOTL. The WA22 accepts most of them, so I thought I'd give them a try there first. I was very impressed with the GEC 6080, but I'll report back properly later when the GOTL is build.

Like you UT, the first thing I do is clean the pins with deoxit and then clean up any remaining gunk with some IPA and then let the tubes settle over night.


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> I feel this is a good example of the double-edged sword that having all these tube rolling options becomes.  It can lead to some obsessive behavior and burn out the hobby.  It's fun in the short term, but long term I feel the KISS approach is wiser.
> 
> Nothing but my opinion of course.


Took me a couple of years until I "settled down" with the WA22. My newer main amps and upcoming GOTL have me purchasing again, but I'm hoping to stop the "one more tube" syndrome soon


----------



## attmci (May 8, 2018)

leftside said:


> Looking forward to trying the 6F8G in the GOTL! They were always noisy in the WA22.
> 
> Had fun this weekend tube rolling with some of the newer tubes I've purchased for the GOTL. The WA22 accepts most of them, so I thought I'd give them a try there first. I was very impressed with the GEC 6080, but I'll report back properly later when the GOTL is build.
> 
> Like you UT, the first thing I do is clean the pins with deoxit and then clean up any remaining gunk with some IPA and then let the tubes settle over night.


You may want to use an alternative adapter.  I bet you already make sure the lines are far away from the transformer.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> This. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-Octal-Gold-plated-tube-saver-tester-adapter-for-EL34-GZ34-KT88-6V6-5Z3P-6SN7/191119822335?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Thanks UT

Will these work with all the sockets in the GOTL,and should these go before or after any adapter I use?


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Looking forward to trying the 6F8G in the GOTL! They were always noisy in the WA22.
> 
> Had fun this weekend tube rolling with some of the newer tubes I've purchased for the GOTL. The WA22 accepts most of them, so I thought I'd give them a try there first. I was very impressed with the GEC 6080, but I'll report back properly later when the GOTL is build.
> 
> Like you UT, the first thing I do is clean the pins with deoxit and then clean up any remaining gunk with some IPA and then let the tubes settle over night.



Leftside, I guess it's different things for different folks but I've enjoyed immensely experiencing the many good tubes on the OTL amp. Some of the combinations are close to heaven. 

There will be another amp in a year's time but GOTL will always remain in my stable. One of a kind tone, this amp just sound so sweet, lively and engaging. The cream of the OTL crop - IMO.

I've returned to one of my favourite if not the 'chosen one'. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6BX7gt. This is the pinnacle of what the GOTL can sound like. I don't blame JV for liking it so much. Further more this combination is so quiet. Total bliss.


----------



## UntilThen (May 8, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> Will these work with all the sockets in the GOTL,and should these go before or after any adapter I use?



If you look at my picture in this link, I use a black bakelite socket saver. On top of it is the gold plated ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter then my Fivre 6N7G tube.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1331#post-14225142

You can get socket savers in black bakelite or the gold plated versions. The latter is supposedly better quality but it makes no difference to me.

Use the socket savers in all the 6 power tubes sockets and the single 6SN7 socket. I guess you don't need to use it in the rectifier socket. You won't be rolling rectifiers that much .... or will you?


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Leftside, I guess it's different things for different folks but I've enjoyed immensely experiencing the many good tubes on the OTL amp. Some of the combinations are close to heaven.
> 
> There will be another amp in a year's time but GOTL will always remain in my stable. One of a kind tone, this amp just sound so sweet, lively and engaging. The cream of the OTL crop - IMO.
> 
> I've returned to one of my favourite if not the 'chosen one'. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6BX7gt. This is the pinnacle of what the GOTL can sound like. I don't blame JV for liking it so much. Further more this combination is so quiet. Total bliss.


Yes I have 3/4 favorite combos as well. Be interesting to see if these are also my favorite combos in the GOTL. I can't argue with the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6BX7gt combo.

I find quietness can also depend upon the tube quality/age in addition to the brand. I'm having good luck lately with "gently used" at good prices.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks UT
> 
> Will these work with all the sockets in the GOTL,and should these go before or after any adapter I use?



Before any adapter and no socket savers for the Loctal sockets for the C3g not available.


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> I feel this is a good example of the double-edged sword that having all these tube rolling options becomes.  It can lead to some obsessive behavior and burn out the hobby.  It's fun in the short term, but long term I feel the KISS approach is wiser.
> 
> Nothing but my opinion of course.



We all come to this hobby from different backgrounds and often have different endpoints in mind. And for sure, KISS may well be the best route for some, and perhaps most.. But for me, having hundreds of tube rolling options is is a wonderful luxury and it makes this hobby so much more enjoyable. Roll on!


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Roll on!



Yeah roll on ! because life is about rolling on. 

I'm not only rolling tubes. I'm alternating my 4 headphones... and @attmci why would you ask me to change my HD800 cable. I thought my present Forza cable is the sexiest on the planet.


----------



## lukeap69

Xcalibur255 said:


> I feel this is a good example of the double-edged sword that having all these tube rolling options becomes.  It can lead to some obsessive behavior and burn out the hobby.  It's fun in the short term, but long term I feel the KISS approach is wiser.
> 
> Nothing but my opinion of course.


I agree with this 100%. When I asked Glenn to build my Darna, my main purpose is to make my HD800 sing like or better than what I heard on an earlier version of Glenn OTL amp. I didn't have any intentions of rolling tubes a lot. I eventually purchased tubes, rolled them, had fun, a lot of fun but also got a little tired of rolling. I slowed down but from time to time hunted exotic tubes which I didn't think of buying before. It is good that there a lot of options or tubes to roll on Glenn's very versatile amp. But I realised that I didn't need to roll tubes frequently. What is important to me is enjoy the lovely sound I get out of Darna-Holo Spring-HD800SD combo. This is something that makes me smile everytime I listen to this combo. Glenn's amps are special. Really special. Whatever (quiet) tubes I roll.


----------



## attmci (May 9, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Yeah roll on ! because life is about rolling on.
> 
> I'm not only rolling tubes. I'm alternating my 4 headphones... and @attmci why would you ask me to change my HD800 cable. I thought my present Forza cable is the sexiest on the planet.



Roll the HPs, roll the cables, roll the amps, the DACs,the transformers (expensive to roll but really the most important piece  ), the tubes, the pots, the caps, the....chassises. Roll on.

JK.

I love tube rolling too. But when I found the tube sound I like, I will leave them stay in the amp for weeks.


----------



## whirlwind

attmci said:


> No, you should go to 300B ASAP.
> 
> Looking at Yates tube collections makes me to think.
> 
> ...



No, I will not be venturing into the 300B land.
No speakers here, just headphone listening for me these days.
I like the intimacy, and I do not bother anybody with music that they do not wish to hear.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> I agree with this 100%. When I asked Glenn to build my Darna, my main purpose is to make my HD800 sing like or better than what I heard on an earlier version of Glenn OTL amp. I didn't have any intentions of rolling tubes a lot. I eventually purchased tubes, rolled them, had fun, a lot of fun but also got a little tired of rolling. I slowed down but from time to time hunted exotic tubes which I didn't think of buying before. It is good that there a lot of options or tubes to roll on Glenn's very versatile amp. But I realised that I didn't need to roll tubes frequently. What is important to me is enjoy the lovely sound I get out of Darna-Holo Spring-HD800SD combo. This is something that makes me smile everytime I listen to this combo. Glenn's amps are special. Really special. Whatever (quiet) tubes I roll.



There was a time when i rolled tubes like mad.

I would power my amp down and throw in new tubes...listen for a couple hours, power my amp down and roll in different tubes.
I still like to roll tubes, but I never power my amp down just to roll tubes anymore.

I only roll tubes before the next time that I turn my amp on.
I may leave the same tubes in for a week or two now before rolling.

The days of rolling many tubes in the same day are over for me now.

I already know what combos that I like , so I don't feel the need.

I just want to enjoy the music, which I have been doing everyday. 

Don't get me wrong, I still love rolling tubes and changing the tone of the amp when I get the urge....just that once the amp is on , those tubes are staying in at least until the next power up.

Seems like a lot of useless wear and tear on the amp and tubes with all of the power on's and off's.


----------



## mordy

I just find tubes, tube amps and tube rolling a very interesting hobby. After a while I settle in with a certain tube combination, but then somebody whose taste I am familiar with discovers some new types or combinations, and I am willing to try it, provided it does not break the bank.
ATM trying out a "pair" of 6F8G tubes; a Raytheon and a Philco. Looking at the boxes they are very early productions, and as you all know, older is better (which makes me feel good at 71 lol).
The codes on the Raytheon are C5 M-R. Easy (but only if you know the answers): 
C = first quarter Jan-March, and 5 is 1945.
M-R is interesting: It means Maintenance and Repair. This tube was made during WW2 and most of the tube production was earmarked for the military. A wartime board oversaw the production and rationed out the quantities that could be allocated for civilian use - hence the M-R designation.
The Philco tube was made by Sylvania and has the code 8
                                                                                            9
It could mean 1948 9th week.
Anyhow, the sound is sweet and expansive - good vinyl sound (vs ss) comes to mind. Paired with the mighty 6336B these tubes are winners.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I just find tubes, tube amps and tube rolling a very interesting hobby. After a while I settle in with a certain tube combination, but then somebody whose taste I am familiar with discovers some new types or combinations, and I am willing to try it, provided it does not break the bank.



I agree that when you first tube rolling, it can get a little hectic - but also agree that you tend to settle in, and hang with what you like.   

The secret to the whole hobby, for me, is "clearing the decks", having the uninterrupted time to really be able to sit down and carefully listen/explore your favorite genre.
Definitely, tubes bring a depth that is different than SS.  Something about that "be there" sound stage, almost a reverb kind of a thing, via tubes, that I find endlessly fascinating and entertaining.

It's kind of like vinyl, when you get vinyl singing perfectly, you wonder why we ever wanted to change to digital.  Same with tubes, done right, it's sooooo goooood that you wish everyone 'knew, understood and acknowledged' the magic.


----------



## wazzupi

I hate coming in here, since I don't have my Glenn otl amp yet xD I'll stare at my newly purchased tubes laying on the couch of my room. " and I'll whisper... Soon" lol


----------



## gibosi

My rolling practice is similar to Whirlwind. That is, I tend to keep the same configuration for weeks at a time. I think it takes considerable time to truely understand the sound of any given vacuum tube....

But of course, when I get new tubes, the drill changes. For example, when I popped in the "new" embossed Telefunken C3g, it was immediately clear that the rectifier already in the amp was too bright. So powered the amp down, swapped in a darker rectifier and powered it back up. And next, with a suitable rectifier installed, I powered the amp on and off a few more times, swapping between the Telefunkens and Siemens, as I attempted to understand the most obvious differences between the different sonic signatures.

Since then, the Telefunkens have remained in the amp to allow me to spend more time with them and they will likely stay in the amp until the next "new" tube comes along.


----------



## Sound Trooper (May 8, 2018)

Day 4 on my KISS EL3N

This sweet little amp just keeps impressing me. The mids and treble is just starting to settle down and the lows are blossoming beautifully, this wonderful EL3N amp which Glenn built is starting to sound more and more like a well resolved solid state amp. Its punchy and dynamic, with that touch of sweetness in the mids and lows. Drives my Phi (which is my hardest to drive headphones) with authority and sings well with my LCD-2F and HD6XX.

Speaking of my LCD-2F, I've reluctantly put it up for sale and it was sold in an instant. The reason is not because I don't like it, but I feel like I have too many overlaps in what I have. The HD6XX sounds like a warmer and less resolving version of the LCD-2F and I'll be getting my Auteurs back from ZMF anytime this week now. From memory, the Autuers just do everything nicer than the LCD-2F and it doesn't really make sense to keep both around. Anyway, I'll be missing my LCD-2F when then new owner comes to pick it up in the next couple of days.

On newer stuff, I will be getting a pair of Fostex TH900 mkII in as the demo pair left such a lasting impression. I will be reporting back on the pairing with the EL3N once I have it in. I will also be picking up a pair of NOS EL3 tubes tonight and the ebay seller told me that he is also selling a pair of straight bottle EL3 (pre WWII). I'll likely pick up the straight bottle EL3 for the novelty and chime in on how it sounds with the EL3N amp.

Instead of rolling tubes like most of you big boys here, the EL3N maintains the KISS concept and excels at what it is doing without the added complication of tube rolling. Looks like I'll have to roll headphones then (Phi, Auteur, TH900, HD6XX, + maybe more?)

PS: Now, it sounds kind of strange for me to keep referring to my EL3N as "the EL3N amp". I feel like this amp needs a name, what do you guess suggest? I'm open to suggestions.

Unfortunately no new pictures now as I'm sitting in my office and dreaming of the EL3N at home.

Happy listening guys!


----------



## mordy

I agree with all the above.
 And it takes time until you understand how a tube sounds.
Wazzupi, I am also waiting for my Glenn amp, but I have the luxury to try some of the new tubes in my present amp, the Feliks Audio Euforia. It was not designed for some of the tubes that I am using and requires various modifications such as an external power source.


Sound Infinity said:


> Day 4 on my KISS EL3N
> 
> This sweet little amp just keeps impressing me. The mids and treble is just starting to settle down and the lows are blossoming beautifully, this wonder EL3N amp which Glenn build is starting to sound more and more like a well resolved solid state amp. Its punchy and dynamic, with that touch of sweetness in the mids and lows. Drives my Phi (which is my hardest to drive headphones) with authority and sings well with my LCD-2F and HD6XX.
> 
> ...


My suggestion is to call it what you already did: KISS, or maybe just KIS (without any negative connotation).


----------



## Sound Trooper

mordy said:


> My suggestion is to call it what you already did: KISS, or maybe just KIS (without any negative connotation).



Wonderful suggestion! Thanks!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sound Infinity said:


> Instead of rolling tubes like most of you big boys here, the EL3N maintains the KISS concept and excels at what it is doing without the added complication of tube rolling. Looks like I'll have to roll headphones then (Phi, Auteur, TH900, HD6XX, + maybe more?)
> 
> PS: Now, it sounds kind of strange for me to keep referring to my EL3N as "the EL3N amp". I feel like this amp needs a name, what do you guess suggest? I'm open to suggestions



Rolling headphones instead of tubes...I like it 
I have some early EL3's...didn't hear any difference in them from EL3N (but it was a different amp). Be interested in what you hear.

The "No Roller" amp...EL3N...."EL No Roll"?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

lukeap69 said:


> I agree with this 100%. When I asked Glenn to build my Darna, my main purpose is to make my HD800 sing like or better than what I heard on an earlier version of Glenn OTL amp. I didn't have any intentions of rolling tubes a lot. I eventually purchased tubes, rolled them, had fun, a lot of fun but also got a little tired of rolling. I slowed down but from time to time hunted exotic tubes which I didn't think of buying before. It is good that there a lot of options or tubes to roll on Glenn's very versatile amp. But I realised that I didn't need to roll tubes frequently. What is important to me is enjoy the lovely sound I get out of Darna-Holo Spring-HD800SD combo. *This is something that makes me smile everytime I listen to this combo. Glenn's amps are special. Really special. Whatever (quiet) tubes I roll.*



This.

I can't agree more. I have never had such enjoyment of this hobby until I experienced listening to my GOTL. Thank you for the 50th time Glenn!

@lukeap69 I couldn't have said it better my self.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Infinity said:


> Day 4 on my KISS EL3N
> 
> This sweet little amp just keeps impressing me. The mids and treble is just starting to settle down and the lows are blossoming beautifully, this wonderful EL3N amp which Glenn built is starting to sound more and more like a well resolved solid state amp. Its punchy and dynamic, with that touch of sweetness in the mids and lows. Drives my Phi (which is my hardest to drive headphones) with authority and sings well with my LCD-2F and HD6XX.
> 
> ...




It will be interesting to hear your findings on the EL3 tubes.
Interested in how the TH900 mkll will sound on this amp also. I am thinking the lower end will be killer with this amp.


----------



## Sound Trooper (May 9, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> It will be interesting to hear your findings on the EL3 tubes.
> Interested in how the TH900 mkll will sound on this amp also. I am thinking the lower end will be killer with this amp.



Thanks to @2359glenn, I’ve managed to find a bunch of nos EL3/EL3N. There is also a strange straight bottle EL3 which the seller said that was produced during WWII.




Re: Fostex TH900 Mk2 on the EL3N

I have just collected the TH900 and ran as fast as I could to get home to try with the EL3N. Mannn.. daft punk never sounded so good! The bass and mid bass are both lush and euphoric, looks like it will be another sleepless night for me.


----------



## attmci

Sound Infinity said:


> Thanks to @2359glenn, I’ve managed to find a bunch of nos EL3/EL3N. There is also a strange straight bottle EL3 which the seller said that was produced during WWII.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hope you will enjoy the music instead of the sound. You can find speakers later which may cost much more than HD to satisfy your taste. Be cool.


----------



## Sound Trooper

attmci said:


> Hope you will enjoy the music instead of the sound. You can find speakers later which may cost much more than HD to satisfy your taste. Be cool.



@attmci , you are completely right. We are all into this hobby as for the musical enjoyment. Buying new toys can be fun, but musical enjoyment should be the end goal. 

Happy listening!


----------



## jekjek

attmci said:


> Hope you will enjoy the music instead of the sound. You can find speakers later which may cost much more than HD to satisfy your taste. Be cool.



Nice find @Sound Infinity 
let us know how it sounds


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> We all come to this hobby from different backgrounds and often have different endpoints in mind. And for sure, KISS may well be the best route for some, and perhaps most.. But for me, having hundreds of tube rolling options is is a wonderful luxury and it makes this hobby so much more enjoyable. Roll on!



Absolutely.  If you genuinely enjoy all the experimentation then there is no reason to stop.

I guess my viewpoint is pretty personal and sometimes I forget that.  It comes down to two issues:  things like this can flip an OCD switch on for me and inevitably it becomes more pain than fun at some point, and secondly once I have found the tubes I like the best I can't help but feel the rest of the collection is pointless afterwards.  It sort of turns "hollow" for me at that point, which is pretty sad really and I suspect other issues I have are coloring things as well.  Things don't "stay fun" for me, and sometimes I forgot most people aren't like that.  At least I hope they aren't........ for their sake.

For those who are able to keep their spark lit, good for you and keep enjoying.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> It will be interesting to hear your findings on the EL3 tubes.
> Interested in how the TH900 mkll will sound on this amp also. I am thinking the lower end will be killer with this amp.



If the EL3 sounds good we will have to buy some Stan has them for $20 each. I just bought all the $20 EL3Ns Stan had.
The EL3N is supposed to be the better tube has a upgraded cathode and draws less filament current then a EL3.


Sound Infinity said:


> Thanks to @2359glenn, I’ve managed to find a bunch of nos EL3/EL3N. There is also a strange straight bottle EL3 which the seller said that was produced during WWII.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't know there was a flat sided EL3N. Will have to look foe some maybe cheaper and sound as good.


----------



## felix3650

Can you guys compare the OTL vs the EL3N amp? I mean from a physical perspective (wheight, dimensions etc). 
By sound I presume the EL3N has the upper edge even though the OTL can be made to sound just as good (albeit with lower power)


----------



## mordy (May 9, 2018)

Sound Infinity said:


> @attmci , you are completely right. We are all into this hobby as for the musical enjoyment. Buying new toys can be fun, but musical enjoyment should be the end goal.


----------



## mordy (May 9, 2018)

Sound Infinity said:


> @attmci , you are completely right. We are all into this hobby as for the musical enjoyment. Buying new toys can be fun, but musical enjoyment should be the end goal.
> _Hi SI,
> 
> From experience I have learned that some people listen to the music, and some listen to their equipment. I assume that we all have a little (or a lot) of both these qualities in ourselves.
> ...


----------



## leftside

Sound Infinity said:


> Speaking of my LCD-2F, I've reluctantly put it up for sale and it was sold in an instant. The reason is not because I don't like it, but I feel like I have too many overlaps in what I have. The HD6XX sounds like a warmer and less resolving version of the LCD-2F and I'll be getting my Auteurs back from ZMF anytime this week now. From memory, the Autuers just do everything nicer than the LCD-2F and it doesn't really make sense to keep both around. Anyway, I'll be missing my LCD-2F when then new owner comes to pick it up in the next couple of days.


I found the same. I then found the LCD3 to be a step-up from the ZMF Auteur (as did my wife, and headphones were tried on both a WA22 and Glenn 300B), though I've had a quite a few conversations with people on this site and on other sites, and a few people prefer the Auteur.


----------



## Phantaminum

leftside said:


> I found the same. I then found the LCD3 to be a step-up from the ZMF Auteur (as did my wife, and headphones were tried on both a WA22 and Glenn 300B), though I've had a quite a few conversations with people on this site and on other sites, and a few people prefer the Auteur.



What was it that you enjoyed more on the LCD-3s than the Auteurs? I have the Auteurs but would love a pair of LCD-3s.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Infinity said:


> Thanks to @2359glenn, I’ve managed to find a bunch of nos EL3/EL3N. There is also a strange straight bottle EL3 which the seller said that was produced during WWII.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow, a straight bottle EL3N ...I would love to get my hands on a few of these...wonder if the price is the same.
thanks for the pic.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> If the EL3 sounds good we will have to buy some Stan has them for $20 each. I just bought all the $20 EL3Ns Stan had.
> The EL3N is supposed to be the better tube has a upgraded cathode and draws less filament current then a EL3.
> 
> 
> I didn't know there was a flat sided EL3N. Will have to look foe some maybe cheaper and sound as good.



Yes, I agree Glenn.  If Sound Infinity says they sound good I will invest in a set.

Would really like to try the little straight bottle, maybe cheaper than regular EL3N


----------



## Sound Trooper

leftside said:


> I found the same. I then found the LCD3 to be a step-up from the ZMF Auteur (as did my wife, and headphones were tried on both a WA22 and Glenn 300B), though I've had a quite a few conversations with people on this site and on other sites, and a few people prefer the Auteur.



Your comments makes sense. I recall that the LCD3 which I tried a long while ago is a much refined version of the LCD2. I will have to re-try the LCD3 side by side with the Auteur in order to make more comments on this.



whirlwind said:


> Wow, a straight bottle EL3N ...I would love to get my hands on a few of these...wonder if the price is the same.
> thanks for the pic.



I got the lucky, the straight bottle EL3 cost me only USD10 each and the buyer told me that they measured 90% new. No way for me to verify this thou. I will put those EL3 into the amp this weekend and report back on my observations.


----------



## leftside

Phantaminum said:


> What was it that you enjoyed more on the LCD-3s than the Auteurs? I have the Auteurs but would love a pair of LCD-3s.


I mainly listen to rock or electronic music genres and prefer the bass on the LCD3s. It would be ideal if you could take the Auteurs to your local hifi store and compare against the LCD3s. I'm sure the local hifi store would like to see your Auteurs. They look gorgeous and are so well made.


----------



## gibosi (May 9, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> If the EL3 sounds good we will have to buy some Stan has them for $20 each. I just bought all the $20 EL3Ns Stan had.
> The EL3N is supposed to be the better tube has a upgraded cathode and draws less filament current then a EL3.



It appears that most if not all Philips production of the EL3N came out of Wiener Radio Werke “WIRAG”, located in Austria. However, checking eBay, I also see tubes labelled Tungsram (Hungary, no doubt) and Visseaux (France). Further, I also see tubes carrying the La Radiotechnique (France) label.

Has anyone tried these?


----------



## Phantaminum

leftside said:


> I mainly listen to rock or electronic music genres and prefer the bass on the LCD3s. It would be ideal if you could take the Auteurs to your local hifi store and compare against the LCD3s. I'm sure the local hifi store would like to see your Auteurs. They look gorgeous and are so well made.



You know. I’m really surprised that living in the 4th populated city in the US we don’t have a real headphone audio enthusiast store. We have speaker stores but i’ve never been able to find a real headphone enthusiast store. I’ve listened to the LCD-4s and they sounded fantastic playing vinyls. Felt like I was there with the band.

I’lll have to wait on our next Head-Fi meet up and cross my fingers someone brings a pair.


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> Absolutely.  If you genuinely enjoy all the experimentation then there is no reason to stop.
> 
> I guess my viewpoint is pretty personal and sometimes I forget that.  It comes down to two issues:  things like this can flip an OCD switch on for me and inevitably it becomes more pain than fun at some point, and secondly once I have found the tubes I like the best I can't help but feel the rest of the collection is pointless afterwards.  It sort of turns "hollow" for me at that point, which is pretty sad really and I suspect other issues I have are coloring things as well.  Things don't "stay fun" for me, and sometimes I forgot most people aren't like that.  At least I hope they aren't........ for their sake.
> 
> For those who are able to keep their spark lit, good for you and keep enjoying.



Unlike some, I have yet to find one tube (for example, a driver) that I like the best. Rather, I have a handful that I like the best. When I compare these tubes, no one tube stands head and shoulders above the others. To my ears, they are all equally good, but they are also ever so slightly different. As a friend once pointed out, the differences are not black and white, but rather, different shades of gray...

And when rectifiers and output tubes are added into the mix, the result is that I have quite a few favorite combinations. Again just different shades of gray...

Further, when a new tube arrives, having a large collection at my disposal allows me to roll-in a variety of other system tubes in an attempt to find a combination that allows the new tube to sound its best. After all, even tubes that many consider to be top tier can sound awful in systems with poorly matched complementary tubes.

So for me, having hundreds (or is it thousands?) of tubes is a luxury... and a joy.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Unlike some, I have yet to find one tube (for example, a driver) that I like the best. Rather, I have a handful that I like the best. When I compare these tubes, no one tube stands head and shoulders above the others. To my ears, they are all equally good, but they are also ever so slightly different. As a friend once pointed out, the differences are not black and white, but rather, different shades of gray...
> 
> And when rectifiers and output tubes are added into the mix, the result is that I have quite a few favorite combinations. Again just different shades of gray...
> 
> ...


Glad you wrote that. I thought I was the only one who doesn't hear huge differences in the different tubes. Sure, I can tell a bad/noisy one, but with "good" tubes the differences are often subtle like you say. I was comparing GE 6AS7GA, GEC 6080 and Tung Sol 5998 at the weekend. The cheap GE 6AS7GA were good! The Tung Sols had a bit more of everything (but I won't say they "killed" the GEs) and the GEC 6080s weren't rocking it like the 5998s, but they had such a delightful warm/romantic tone to them that I can't wait to try them in the GOTL.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Glad you wrote that. I thought I was the only one who doesn't hear huge differences in the different tubes. Sure, I can tell a bad/noisy one, but with "good" tubes the differences are often subtle like you say. I was comparing GE 6AS7GA, GEC 6080 and Tung Sol 5998 at the weekend. The cheap GE 6AS7GA were good! The Tung Sols had a bit more of everything (but I won't say they "killed" the GEs) and the GEC 6080s weren't rocking it like the 5998s, but they had such a delightful warm/romantic tone to them that I can't wait to try them in the GOTL.


Yes - definitively true; the differences aren't really enormous among the better tubes, but this is how I react listening:
It takes time to adjust to a new tube or tube combination (in addition to the time it takes for the tubes to burn in, if new). After a while  you "get" the sound, and the initial impression may or may not stick. 
Then there may be something in the long term listening process that I call "Something Bothers Me." It is a quality to the sound that is missing or exaggerated or both or whatever, but something is bothering me when I am listening, and I don't want to continue listening to that combination. Tiring, grating, unpleasant in the long run....
And when I find tubes that leave me without that feeling - nothing bothers me and everything is just beautiful and thoroughly enjoyable; then I know I have found something special.
In the beginning of my tube amp/tube rolling experience I did not want to share my impressions with others, because I did not think that it would be possible for others to agree and hear what I am hearing, given all the differences in personal tastes, equipment and preferences. To my surprise I realized after some time that at least some people can hear exactly what I am hearing and are able to describe their impressions in the same way. I discovered that a small select group of tubes will be top tier for most people, and within this group of tubes most people can find true listening satisfaction.
There is no one best tube as Gibosi says, but there are several combinations that you can happily leave in your amp, forget about tube rolling, and just enjoy the music.
At least until the next discovery comes along......


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Glad you wrote that. I thought I was the only one who doesn't hear huge differences in the different tubes. Sure, I can tell a bad/noisy one, but with "good" tubes the differences are often subtle like you say. I was comparing GE 6AS7GA, GEC 6080 and Tung Sol 5998 at the weekend. The cheap GE 6AS7GA were good! The Tung Sols had a bit more of everything (but I won't say they "killed" the GEs) and the GEC 6080s weren't rocking it like the 5998s, but they had such a delightful warm/romantic tone to them that I can't wait to try them in the GOTL.



Maybe not huge differences, but for example, a Sylvania 6SN7W and a pair of Siemens C3g do not sound all that similar. But to my ears, one is not better than the other. In both cases, as Mordy points out, I can listen for long periods of time and nothing bothers me, everything seems right. And I can forget about the tubes and simply enjoy the music.


----------



## Oskari

2359glenn said:


> If the EL3 sounds good we will have to buy some Stan has them for $20 each. I just bought all the $20 EL3Ns Stan had.
> The EL3N is supposed to be the better tube has a upgraded cathode and draws less filament current then a EL3.



It is my understanding that only the very early tall & tubular EL3 is a true EL3 and that all the rest are EL3Ns whether they have the N or not. See photo and discussion at:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3.html



gibosi said:


> It appears that most if not all Philips production of the EL3N came out of Wiener Radio Werke “WIRAG”, located in Austria.



Agreed. Early ones might be Dutch (or something else), though.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Unlike some, I have yet to find one tube (for example, a driver) that I like the best. Rather, I have a handful that I like the best. When I compare these tubes, no one tube stands head and shoulders above the others. To my ears, they are all equally good, but they are also ever so slightly different. As a friend once pointed out, the differences are not black and white, but rather, different shades of gray...
> 
> And when rectifiers and output tubes are added into the mix, the result is that I have quite a few favorite combinations. Again just different shades of gray...
> 
> ...



Great post.  I agree that most tubes do not stand head and shoulders above most other tubes...very few exceptions in my experience, the 5998 power tube is one that I love dearly. This being said I also find that a cheaper driver tube can sound wonderful with this power tube.
At some point one has to say is a $200-$300 tube that much better than a cheaper tube. With Glenns amps , I would say no, since he has made the OTL sound wonderful with 6BX/6BL7 and C3g driver tubes.  while the price of these go up, still one of the best sounding combos for the amp.

I am all for the better tubes, but I never pay the going price for most.  If not careful one can spend $1000 on tubes in no time. There is nothing at all wrong with this, just something to be aware of when buying an amp with so many tube rolling options.
I would say that for $1000, new headphones is probably the better bang for the buck, or even upgrading something else in your chain like dac.

It is so very cool to have a bunch of tubes on hand for the very reasons that you mention  gibosi.
When I do buy NOS tubes  I still use the advice that you gave me long ago.  I have some cheap power tubes that I use for burn in of driver tube and cheap driver tubes that I use when burning in power tubes.

It is a very nice luxury to have a lot of tubes, even though when the glass keeps arriving in the mail and the wife calls you a hoarder  







Sound Infinity said:


> Your comments makes sense. I recall that the LCD3 which I tried a long while ago is a much refined version of the LCD2. I will have to re-try the LCD3 side by side with the Auteur in order to make more comments on this.
> 
> 
> 
> I got the lucky, the straight bottle EL3 cost me only USD10 each and the buyer told me that they measured 90% new. No way for me to verify this thou. I will put those EL3 into the amp this weekend and report back on my observations.



Thank you Sound Infinity and enjoy those new Fostex cans.






gibosi said:


> It appears that most if not all Philips production of the EL3N came out of Wiener Radio Werke “WIRAG”, located in Austria. However, checking eBay, I also see tubes labelled Tungsram (Hungary, no doubt) and Visseaux (France). Further, I also see tubes carrying the La Radiotechnique (France) label.
> 
> Has anyone tried these?



I have only ever tried the Phillips production...I think I may try the EL3 Tungsram at some point.
The straight bottle that Sound Infinity has posted a picture of....I did not even know that those existed.


----------



## whirlwind

Oskari said:


> It is my understanding that only the very early tall & tubular EL3 is a true EL3 and that all the rest are EL3Ns whether they have the N or not. See photo and discussion at:
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3.html
> 
> ...




If I ever come across some of these tall and tubular EL3 tubes...I will get them....thanks for the pic.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> If I ever come across some of these tall and tubular EL3 tubes...I will get them....thanks for the pic.


I saw Yates selling all his tubes at big lots. So sad. 

For Ken, who are the "unlike some",


----------



## Phantaminum

Pair of Phillips Miniwatts EL3N tubes up for bid. Right now at $49.00

eBay: Phillips EL3N


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Great post.  I agree that most tubes do not stand head and shoulders above most other tubes...very few exceptions in my experience, the 5998 power tube is one that I love dearly. This being said I also find that a cheaper driver tube can sound wonderful with this power tube.
> At some point one has to say is a $200-$300 tube that much better than a cheaper tube. With Glenns amps , I would say no, since he has made the OTL sound wonderful with 6BX/6BL7 and C3g driver tubes.  while the price of these go up, still one of the best sounding combos for the amp.
> 
> I am all for the better tubes, but I never pay the going price for most.  If not careful one can spend $1000 on tubes in no time. There is nothing at all wrong with this, just something to be aware of when buying an amp with so many tube rolling options.
> ...


----------



## mordy (May 10, 2018)

Hi Whirlwind,
_"It is a very nice luxury to have a lot of tubes, even though when the glass keeps arriving in the mail and the wife calls you a hoarder"_
Wife: Why do you have so many of those glass things?
Me: I am looking for sonic perfection...
And the excuse for buying more tubes is that they always go up in price - but it is not the case that I have sold that many of them....
Always looking for bargains of good tubes. Here is a good example (did not win it though because I don't really need it and the price went beyond my self imposed budget point):
You can pay this for a Bendix 6080WB (actually sold for $234.50!):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-JAN...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
or, you could buy from an inexperienced seller that advertised it as a Bendix 6AS7 and listed it as made by Svetlana from Russia:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-6AS...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
It sold for around $41.
Both the above tubes are the slotted variety which are said to be the best.


----------



## Oskari

whirlwind said:


> If I ever come across some of these tall and tubular EL3 tubes...I will get them....thanks for the pic.


Those might be pretty rare.


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> Those might be pretty rare.


Found this Telefunken EL3 on British eBay - seller has at least 10 but pricey:





https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EL3-TELE...484520?hash=item1a359ac2a8:g:ooUAAOSwP4ZZwBLB


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> You know. I’m really surprised that living in the 4th populated city in the US we don’t have a real headphone audio enthusiast store. We have speaker stores but i’ve never been able to find a real headphone enthusiast store. I’ve listened to the LCD-4s and they sounded fantastic playing vinyls. Felt like I was there with the band.
> 
> I’lll have to wait on our next Head-Fi meet up and cross my fingers someone brings a pair.



I lived in SE Asia for eleven years and there were several high end headphone shops scattered around Singapore and Bangkok,where one could literally go in and try out HP-amp-DACs for hours on end. The problem over there though is the actual cost of buying gear,which is outrageous.

I spoke to an owner of a headphone shop in NYC,and he had one word to describe why there isnt more shops around. "Amazon" was his response. That and I figure sheer consumer ignorance factors in as well


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Then there may be something in the long term listening process that I call "Something Bothers Me." It is a quality to the sound that is missing or exaggerated or both or whatever, but something is bothering me when I am listening, and I don't want to continue listening to that combination. Tiring, grating, unpleasant in the long run....
> And when I find tubes that leave me without that feeling - nothing bothers me and everything is just beautiful and thoroughly enjoyable; then I know I have found something special.



This is exactly how I've come to feel too.  I think rolling tubes every day or every few days is unproductive, at least for me it is, and creates false impressions.  The brain plays a lot of tricks when it comes to making short term comparisons.

I've found the only way to form impressions that feel trustworthy is to listen to the same sound for a long time before making a change.  Over the long haul the "gut feeling" I develop about a sound becomes very trustworthy and has helped me understand the qualities that I do and do not want to hear in my music.  I've found I can accurately compare these gut feelings to different sounds I have listened to for months at a time, but all of the times I've done short auditions over just a few days I have found that my impressions often don't hold true the next time I hear that sound and can't trust them to use for comparison.

Changing how I audition my system has actually helped me understand my own preferences a lot better.  After enough listening sessions eventually it will come down to a simple "it sounds right" or "it doesn't sound right" gut feeling and I trust that.  There is no rushing the process though.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> If not careful one can spend $1000 on tubes in no time.


Or more...


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> This is exactly how I've come to feel too.  I think rolling tubes every day or every few days is unproductive, at least for me it is, and creates false impressions.  The brain plays a lot of tricks when it comes to making short term comparisons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi X255,

Thanks for your words - was worried that people would not understand my feelings.
Now, do you find that your measured conclusions match other people's impressions?


----------



## whirlwind (May 10, 2018)

mordy said:


> Found this Telefunken EL3 on British eBay - seller has at least 10 but pricey:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting this.....I am thinking about springing for a pair of these, maybe try them in the front two sockets of the amp.

I have contacted seller about shipping.




mordy said:


> Hi Whirlwind,
> _"It is a very nice luxury to have a lot of tubes, even though when the glass keeps arriving in the mail and the wife calls you a hoarder"_
> Wife: Why do you have so many of those glass things?
> Me: I am looking for sonic perfection...
> ...



That tube for $41 is a steal.
It is a great sounding tube, but not worth the $234 for one tube that someone paid.








Oskari said:


> Those might be pretty rare.


I am quite sure that they are...but maybe some will show up at some point


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Found this Telefunken EL3 on British eBay - seller has at least 10 but pricey:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, I don't see any manufacturing codes on these, so it is not clear where they were manufactured.

However, from this site:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3.html

it appears that the EL3 was developed and first manufactured in Eindhoven, Holland, so that would be my first guess. And further, it seems doubtful that Telefunken ever made the EL3.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> And further, it seems doubtful that Telefunken ever made the EL3.


It seems that the production numbers for Tfk's tube factories in (West) Berlin and Ulm are actually known. They did make the EL3 in Berlin but only 1937–1947. Btw, they made the C3g in Ulm 1967–1968. See _Fertigung der Werke Teil 1_ at:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/rs15_rs152.html#7


----------



## attmci (May 15, 2018)

Oskari said:


> It seems that the production numbers for Tfk's tube factories in (West) Berlin and Ulm are actually known. They did make the EL3 in Berlin but only 1937–1947. Btw, they made the C3g in Ulm 1967–1968. See _Fertigung der Werke Teil 1_ at:
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/rs15_rs152.html#7


Hi, O, pls ignore those "Christmas tree" tube rollers on the other thread. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/off...16-2016-wikia-hq.806926/page-19#post_12681308
They have no idea of what they are doing. But that's OK. Take care.


----------



## gibosi

Oskari said:


> It seems that the production numbers for Tfk's tube factories in (West) Berlin and Ulm are actually known. They did make the EL3 in Berlin but only 1937–1947. Btw, they made the C3g in Ulm 1967–1968. See _Fertigung der Werke Teil 1_ at:
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/rs15_rs152.html#7



It's good to know that Tfk did make the EL3. However, the EL3 pictured above does not appear to have been manufactured by Tfk. I have WE56 and AZ12 manufactured by Tfk in the late 1930's and early 1940's and the production codes are printed on the bottom of the bases. As the pictured EL3 do not have Tfk production codes printed on the base, I am of the opinion that they were likely manufactured by Philips in Eindhoven. And EL3 manufactured by Tfk are probably even more rare.

And I wonder about the accuracy of the Fertigung der Werke document with respect to the C3g.... I have a pair of Telefunken C3g with Tfk production codes indicating they were made in September, 1966. While these C3g are not embossed, but silk-screened, the tooling on the base and the cans is different enough from Siemens to lead me to believe that Tfk did in fact make them. But this would have been slightly before the 1967-1968 time-frame indicated in the Tfk factory production document.

And if these silk-screened C3g were in fact manufactured by Tfk, then the embossed pair I have most likely would have been manufactured prior to 1966. Further, the tooling on the base and the cans of the embossed C3g differs significantly from the pair made in 1966 which suggests that it was not simply a case of swapping on a new black can. Plus the two Tfk C3g, silk-screened and embossed, sound different. So I am inclined to believe that the Fertigung der Werke document is incomplete with respect to the C3g...

But still, this is good information to have... one more piece of the puzzle...


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> So I am inclined to believe that the Fertigung der Werke document is incomplete with respect to the C3g...


Damn Germans and their lousy record keeping!


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Hi X255,
> 
> Thanks for your words - was worried that people would not understand my feelings.
> Now, do you find that your measured conclusions match other people's impressions?


I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean.  I don't do any instrumented testing myself.  I'm just speaking on the subject of listening impressions.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean.  I don't do any instrumented testing myself.  I'm just speaking on the subject of listening impressions.


What I meant is if you find that your impressions after extended listening correspond to how other people describe what they hear.


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> What I meant is if you find that your impressions after extended listening correspond to how other people describe what they hear.


I broadly agree with the way people describe most popular tubes, but we all tend to focus on different aspects that we value most.  I guess now that I think about it I don't really compare my impressions to other people's anymore.  My primary intent is finding what maximizes the music experience for me from what I already own, so it's all very internally focused.


----------



## attmci

@mordy https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNG-SOL-J...123127&hash=item56aef532ba:g:5PEAAOSw4WRa9Jrh


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> @mordy https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNG-SOL-J...123127&hash=item56aef532ba:g:5PEAAOSw4WRa9Jrh


Thanks - that's the carbon plate. Let's see how the bidding goes...
I have two Bendix and three Raytheon. Paid $80 for the Bendix pair and $50 for the three Ray's.


----------



## wazzupi

I received my Russian tubes today i forgot i bought like 2 months ago


----------



## Silent One (May 11, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> You know. I’m really surprised that living in the 4th populated city in the US we don’t have a real headphone audio enthusiast store. We have speaker stores but i’ve never been able to find a real headphone enthusiast store. I’ve listened to the LCD-4s and they sounded fantastic playing vinyls. Felt like I was there with the band.
> 
> I’lll have to wait on our next Head-Fi meet up and cross my fingers someone brings a pair.



Greetings Phantaminum!

Your post from “H-Town” caught my eye. No need to wait for the next head-fi meet! Contact the Houston Audio Society. Members have a wide variety of gear, knowlege and contacts.


----------



## wazzupi

Silent One said:


> Greetings Phantaminum!
> 
> Your post from “H-Town” caught my eye. No need to wait for the next head-fi meet! Contact the Houston Audio Society. Members have a wide variety of gear, knowlege and contacts.


is there a florida or miami audio society <.<


----------



## Xcalibur255

Silent One said:


> Greetings Phantaminum!



Good to see you here.  You've been absent even longer than I have.

Hope things are well?


----------



## Sound Trooper (May 12, 2018)

I’ll start this update with a pic. This weekend has been crazy, lots of running around to complete errands. Nevertheless, I’ve managed to find time to put in those straight bottle EL3 into the amp. First impressions: sounds very similar to the EL3N, but I think the top end might be slightly smoother. However I can’t be sure. Mids and Low end is still very impressive on either the EL3 or EL3N.

I’ve also been running single tube mode on the EL3N for the Fostex TH900 Mk2. The TH900 are easy to drive and single tube mode is enough to make the Fostex sing. The more I listen to the TH900, the more I feel it matches well with the EL3N amp.

Unfortunately I’ll not be able to do much listening on the EL3N next week as I’ll be traveling the entire week. I will surely miss it but I have the nifty ifi nano idsd BL to accompany me on the boring biz trip.


----------



## Phantaminum

Silent One said:


> Greetings Phantaminum!
> 
> Your post from “H-Town” caught my eye. No need to wait for the next head-fi meet! Contact the Houston Audio Society. Members have a wide variety of gear, knowlege and contacts.



Thanks for pointing me over to HAS. I’ll definitely look them up. My friends and coworkers don’t understand my hobby but luckily my SO is much more supportive.

When I tell them the price of my work equipment (MTCH, Mimby, E-Mu Teaks) they scoff at the amount. When I have them listen with Tidal master tracks and they close their eyes (or have a huge smile on their face) that’s when I know they’ve figured it out. Hard to find like minded people that are audiophiles.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> My friends and coworkers don’t understand my hobby but luckily my SO is much more supportive



If you have your SO in your corner youre ahead of the game.
Any tips on how to accomplish that would be most appreciated.


----------



## UntilThen

Temperature have plunge downunder - 13c !!! Well I have always wish for cooler weather, especially with the long listening sessions with the OTL amp but the heat from the amp is hardly enough to keep me warm.

Just ran my hand over the Lundahl transformer and it's cool. I am running Sylvania 6sn7w and 6 x 6BX7gt and have been for almost a week. I think the desire to swap tubes is gone. This tube combination is perfect for me. Perfect with LCD-2f which I'm using a lot lately. 4 Fotons 1950s tubes arrived together with another 3 Svetlana 6h13c, making it six 6h13c !!! I did not even roll them in. It's still sitting in the boxes. No desire to roll in the russian tubes. Them 6sn7w and 6bx7s just sound too good for me and would you believe it, it's really quiet.  So they will stay in Ulysses until the tubes burn out !

It's almost 6 months with Ulysses. I hate having to name my amp but it needs a name. Calling it the OTL amp is just too impersonal. There should really be an official names for the OTL and EL3N amps... for the 300b amps too. So anyway, here's a report card from my 6 months of using Ulysses.

This is a really good sounding OTL amp with HD800, LCD-2f. Period. Buy it without reservations. I would have gladly shown you the internals of the amp but I think Glenn needs to give his approval first. It's his intellectual rights. The internal is a work of art. So complex and yet so neatly laid out. I'm impressed. Above all, it's the sound that this amp produce that really impressed me. Simply lovely sounding.

Well I'm back to listening to music.... and to muse over my next amp.... no prize for guessing what it is but it will based on the 2a3 tubes. 

UT.


----------



## 2359glenn

You can post the insides if you want.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright, thanks Glenn. I would love prospective buyers to see this very neat point to point wiring. I am not a technical person but I am super impressed looking at it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Your amp has the jumpers to easily  change from 230 to 115 volts if you want to sell it to someone in the US or Canada.
Not that you do.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Your amp has the jumpers to easily  change from 230 to 115 volts if you want to sell it to someone in the US or Canada.
> Not that you do.



Huh that's good to know but this amp isn't going anywhere. I have never own an amp I love so much before. Everyday I am waiting to get home from work to listen to music with it. The emotional attachment is great and I think I capture it best with this photo.. may not be my preferred driver but the colour and tone of the picture. I just love looking at it. I really think Ulysses looks beautiful and sounds fantastic. No other ways to describe it.


----------



## UntilThen

Well the day has come. Tyll said goodbye. There wasn't supposed to be any goodbye. There's no 'THE END' in this hobby or is there 

and I can't believe he isn't having a high end system for his retirement. The story is supposed to end that way. You are supposed to have found audio nirvana and not Bose and Beats. 

Gonna miss you Tyll. All the best in your retirement and touring.




It's about holding on.... holding on to the ones you love, your hobby, your passion. I love this song and video. Dripping with reflections and nostalgia.


----------



## attmci (May 12, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Temperature have plunge downunder - 13c !!! Well I have always wish for cooler weather, especially with the long listening sessions with the OTL amp but the heat from the amp is hardly enough to keep me warm.
> 
> Just ran my hand over the Lundahl transformer and it's cool. I am running Sylvania 6sn7w and 6 x 6BX7gt and have been for almost a week. I think the *desire to swap tubes is gone*. This tube combination is perfect for me. Perfect with LCD-2f which I'm using a lot lately. 4 Fotons 1950s tubes arrived together with another 3 Svetlana 6h13c, making it six 6h13c !!! I did not even roll them in. It's still sitting in the boxes. _*No desire to roll*_ in the russian tubes. Them 6sn7w and 6bx7s just sound too good for me and would you believe it, it's really quiet.  _So they will stay in Ulysses until the tubes burn out !_
> 
> ...


  You really should try _*this*_ one last tube.......


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Temperature have plunge downunder - 13c !!! Well I have always wish for cooler weather, especially with the long listening sessions with the OTL amp but the heat from the amp is hardly enough to keep me warm.
> 
> 
> UT.


Anyone would think I live in Australia and you in Canada based upon the current weather:
https://weather.gc.ca/city/pages/bc-74_metric_e.html


----------



## UntilThen

Perfect weather in Vancouver 23c. That's when robins sings and flowers bloom. Springtime right?

It's still 13c now but that's ok during daytime. I like it cool.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> You really should try _*this*_ one last tube.......



I don't see no tube. You're right. There's one last tube to try before I retire like Tyll.

That's the yet to arrive Tung Sol 12SL7gt black glass round plates.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Infinity said:


> I’ll start this update with a pic. This weekend has been crazy, lots of running around to complete errands. Nevertheless, I’ve managed to find time to put in those straight bottle EL3 into the amp. First impressions: sounds very similar to the EL3N, but I think the top end might be slightly smoother. However I can’t be sure. Mids and Low end is still very impressive on either the EL3 or EL3N.
> 
> I’ve also been running single tube mode on the EL3N for the Fostex TH900 Mk2. The TH900 are easy to drive and single tube mode is enough to make the Fostex sing. The more I listen to the TH900, the more I feel it matches well with the EL3N amp.
> 
> Unfortunately I’ll not be able to do much listening on the EL3N next week as I’ll be traveling the entire week. I will surely miss it but I have the nifty ifi nano idsd BL to accompany me on the boring biz trip.




Thanks much for your first impression of the straight bottles Sound Infinity


----------



## 2359glenn

Sam needs to try these as the output tubes. I think they might make a bigger difference there.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I don't see no tube. You're right. There's one last tube to try before I retire like Tyll.
> 
> That's the yet to arrive Tung Sol 12SL7gt black glass round plates.



I can't believe you are going to retire buying new tubes.
Guess you have most of the good ones already. I like the idea of rolling headphones instead of rolling tubes.
Hard to believe I am not a tube roller but once I found tubes I like they will be in there for years.
The most tube rolling I have done was to find quite #26 tubes for my preamp and quiet #27 tubes for my headphone amp.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Sam needs to try these as the output tubes. I think they might make a bigger difference there.



Good point, I will wait and see what he has to say about them as outputs, before I think about any
Should be dead silent as outputs too.


----------



## attmci (May 13, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> I can't believe you are going to retire buying new tubes.
> Guess you have most of the good ones already. I like the idea of rolling headphones instead of rolling tubes.
> Hard to believe I am not a tube roller but once I found tubes I like they will be in there for years.
> The most tube rolling I have done was to find quite #26 tubes for my preamp and quiet #27 tubes for my headphone amp.



He won't quit. I have high confidence. 

Sadly the head-fi is still a very small society comparing to other hobbies.


----------



## UntilThen

The truth is I was pretty much over with tube rolling after one and a half years of doing that with Elise, Euforia and La Figaro 339. At the end of that I had enough - literally. I thought that by buying Ragnarok I would be ween of tube addictions. Little did I know that I would be getting Ulysses six months after Ragnarok. That restarted my tube rolling again. 

It was great fun and an eye opener though. I was able to experience first hand how the different drivers and power tubes sound on Ulysses. Boy what an eye and ear opener. I can't believe how good Ulysses sounded with different tubes. I can clearly hear the differences and it's not subtle. I know which combinations I like. I mean really like. 6 x 6bx7gt really stands out. Looking back, I don't need the other power tubes. I would have been thoroughly happy with 6 x 6bx7gt. It's picky with drivers though. Or rather my ears are picky. I really like Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6bx7gt. Fancy liking the expensive 6sn7w metal base that is almost unobtainable now..... and I'm going to burn it all the way. Why not. Why would you buy a tube and not use it. 

You know Glenn, of all people you should indeed have been a compulsive tube roller. 

Now headphones... rolling headphones is even more fun but alas truly sorry for our pockets. Over the last few days, I started to like the LCD-2f more and more. It's got great bass, lush mids and overall a very relaxing sound but still clear and details sufficient for me. I mean I like rock and electronica genres just like Leftside and the LCD-2f is perfect for it. However I believe Leftside when he says that LCD-3 is even better. So .... who knows I may sell all my wooden headphones and get a LCD-3 to compliment the HD800. 

Then I will retire...


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> The truth is I was pretty much over with tube rolling after one and a half years of doing that with Elise, Euforia and La Figaro 339. At the end of that I had enough - literally. I thought that by buying Ragnarok I would be ween of tube addictions. Little did I know that I would be getting Ulysses six months after Ragnarok. That restarted my tube rolling again.
> 
> It was great fun and an eye opener though. I was able to experience first hand how the different drivers and power tubes sound on Ulysses. Boy what an eye and ear opener. I can't believe how good Ulysses sounded with different tubes. I can clearly hear the differences and it's not subtle. I know which combinations I like. I mean really like. 6 x 6bx7gt really stands out. Looking back, I don't need the other power tubes. I would have been thoroughly happy with 6 x 6bx7gt. It's picky with drivers though. Or rather my ears are picky. I really like Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6bx7gt. Fancy liking the expensive 6sn7w metal base that is almost unobtainable now..... and I'm going to burn it all the way. Why not. Why would you buy a tube and not use it.
> 
> ...



Well you had to find out what tubes you liked the best. You wouldn't have believed me if I told you cheep 6BX7 would have sounded best.
And that Sylvania 6SN7 will last you 10 years + using it every day so use it if you like it.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> So .... who knows I may sell all my wooden headphones and get a LCD-3



Blasphemy!


----------



## mordy

Just got an old 1944 Ken-Rad 6N7 tube and I am trying it out. The tubes came in original JAN boxes that looked liked they were never opened. I was unable to get the tubes out without tearing the inserts holding the tubes in place.
Is there a way to do it without tearing the boxes?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Well you had to find out what tubes you liked the best. You wouldn't have believed me if I told you cheep 6BX7 would have sounded best.
> And that Sylvania 6SN7 will last you 10 years + using it every day so use it if you like it.



Huh !!! Pearly words of wisdom. It's like Yoda talking to Luke Skywalker.

But that last sentence I'm not so sure. I'd be very surprised if that brand new NOS 6sn7w last 10 years. That would justify spending 175 pounds and Langrex sells some of the nicest tubes. Not cheep but nice.

There's a reason why I like the 6sn7w so much. It's the quietest driver in my inventory with 6 x 6bx7 and also one of the best sounding tube. The other driver that I have that is super quiet with 6bx7s is the Mullard ECC31. It's another superb driver but it has a darker, warmer tone. There are other very good sounding superb drivers like the Mullard ECC33, Siemens c3g, Gec B36 and Tung Sol 12sn7gt bgrp but they are not dead quiet with 6bx7s and these are all brand new NOS tubes. I would have love them just as much if they exhibit the same level of quietness as the 6sn7w and ECC31. So I use these drivers with 5998 or 6336b and believe me these are seriously good killer tones too.

However it's the wonderful voicing of Ulysses that breathes life into these tubes. Thanks for a wonderful sounding amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy that's a rare find. If those are 6sn7w, the seller would be sitting on a fortune. However I am done with buying more tubes. I have to prove @attmci  wrong.


----------



## mordy

You all know that sinking feeling - one channel went dead....First thought is that I overdid my non-sanctioned experiments, I didn't listen to h1 and FA, and now I am suffering the consequences - running over-capacity tubes: The acrid smoke from you know where is engulfing me; well there was no smoke, so maybe no fire....

One channel is dead; well almost. If I turn up the volume all the way I can hear a faint sound. But you can't function/listen like that.

Yanked on all the connections and plugs and there are many. No improvement. Changed the tubes - did not help.
My tube amp is connected to the equalizer circuit on my integrated amp. Switched to all solid state - yep the speakers are both working. Terrible, it must be the tube amp.

All right, switched out the Euforia for the Elise that I know is working - same problem. Could not be the tube amp, must be the integrated amp. Finally I figured out that the switch for equalizer on/off gave out on one channel.

Reconnected the Euforia (sounds much better than the Elise) and bypassed the equalizer circuit. Phew, everything works and is back to normal!

Have to figure out how to connect all the sources to the line in to the tube amp (PC, CD, Laptop, Aux), but should be possible with an external switch box which I have.

I am relieved, everything is back to normal - I guess that my 38 year integrated Sony amp has the right to be a little grumpy because of age...

All is well that ends well.


----------



## UntilThen

If you need multi inputs you can ask Glenn to include multiple rca inputs for your OTL amp.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Huh !!! Pearly words of wisdom. It's like Yoda talking to Luke Skywalker.
> 
> But that last sentence I'm not so sure. I'd be very surprised if that brand new NOS 6sn7w last 10 years. That would justify spending 175 pounds and Langrex sells some of the nicest tubes. Not cheep but nice.
> 
> ...



Have you tried 4 X 6bl7 or 4X bx7 with the TS 12sn7gt BGRP? What's the problem with that if you had tested?


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Well you had to find out what tubes you liked the best. You wouldn't have believed me if I told you cheep 6BX7 would have sounded best.
> And that Sylvania 6SN7 will last you 10 years + using it every day so use it if you like it.



The only tube reported last longer than 10 years is the metal base GZ34. But I had one DOA. So it depends.


----------



## 2359glenn

Plenty of 6SN7s lasted over 10 years in TVs for the horizontal oscillator. TVs didn't crap out all the time and they were full of tubes.
When I was young there was a GE AM/FM radio that was on 24hrs a day for over 20 years then I moved out don't really know how long it kept on playing.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> The truth is I was pretty much over with tube rolling after one and a half years of doing that with Elise, Euforia and La Figaro 339. At the end of that I had enough - literally. I thought that by buying Ragnarok I would be ween of tube addictions. Little did I know that I would be getting Ulysses six months after Ragnarok. That restarted my tube rolling again.


Same with the WA22, but with the GOTL being built sometime this year I've been on a bit of a tube buying spree again...


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Plenty of 6SN7s lasted over 10 years in TVs for the horizontal oscillator. TVs didn't crap out all the time and they were full of tubes.
> When I was young there was a GE AM/FM radio that was on 24hrs a day for over 20 years then I moved out don't really know how long it kept on playing.


I remember reading on JACMusic about a Telefunken tube that lasted over 100,000 hours (don't know how many years that practically translates into when used).


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> You all know that sinking feeling - one channel went dead....First thought is that I overdid my non-sanctioned experiments, I didn't listen to h1 and FA, and now I am suffering the consequences - running over-capacity tubes: The acrid smoke from you know where is engulfing me; well there was no smoke, so maybe no fire....



Yeah! Glad it wasn’t you Tube Amp, Mordy!


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Same with the WA22, but with the GOTL being built sometime this year I've been on a bit of a tube buying spree again...



The joy of the OTL amp is the ability to use a large variety of tubes with it.

So yeah why not. Get your tubes ready and I look forward to your impressions.

Also looking forward to your impressions of your 300b amp compared to the OTL.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Have you tried 4 X 6bl7 or 4X bx7 with the TS 12sn7gt BGRP? What's the problem with that if you had tested?



You have just earn your stripes.

I've just tested using 4 x 6bx7 with Tung Sol 12sn7gt and Mullard ECC33. Total silence. I can't hear any noise with no music playing. I have very high regards for these 2 drivers and to have the quietness with 4 x 6bx7 really put a smile on my face.


----------



## whirlwind (May 14, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> You have just earn your stripes.
> 
> I've just tested using 4 x 6bx7 with Tung Sol 12sn7gt and Mullard ECC33. Total silence. I can't hear any noise with no music playing. I have very high regards for these 2 drivers and to have the quietness with 4 x 6bx7 really put a smile on my face.




Good chance that using only  four tubes instead of six tubes....a bunch of your other drivers will be quiet also.  

This is the case with my sons amp when using the adapters....four tubes are quiet with many more drivers.


----------



## UntilThen

There is hope indeed. 

c3gs still a bit of noise with quad 6bx7. I'll use c3g with 5998 because I know it's quiet there.

Gec B36 - totally quiet with quad 6bx7. Holy moly this is a big bonus. This is a NOS NIB tube from Stavros.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> There is hope indeed.
> 
> c3gs still a bit of noise with quad 6bx7. I'll use c3g with 5998 because I know it's quiet there.
> 
> Gec B36 - totally quiet with quad 6bx7. Holy moly this is a big bonus. This is a NOS NIB tube from Stavros.



Yeah, good news indeed and four  6BX7/6BL7 sound very good.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, good news indeed and four  6BX7/6BL7 sound very good.



I have to ..... agree. Quad 6bx7 does sound very good and the difference with six 6bx7 isn't that obvious. You're very close to full throttle. 

The amp is really cool running a 6sn7 and quad 6bx7. That's a total of 6.6a from an amp that can handle 13a. This Bentley is just cruising along.


----------



## UntilThen

Ken Rad 1633 with quad 6bx7 totally quiet !!! 

This combination will sing your blues. It has all the ingredients of a smokey blues bar. Cassandra Wilson will feel right at home here singing 'Time After Time'.


----------



## gibosi

And another benefit.... in amps equipped with a 5-volt rectifier, a quad of 6BX7 allows the use of rectifiers such as AZ4 and AZ12, which are too wimpy to use with six 6BX7.


----------



## UntilThen

That means I can use the quad Los Gatos 6bx7gt by themselves. 

The last hour have been magical with Tung Sol 12sn7gt black glass round plates with 4 x 6BX7gt. Zero noise and the euphonic sound of Glenn's OTL amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

4 will work but you will have more drive with 6 of them.
I guess if you don't have a sextet of the same tubes it might sound better with 4 if the headphones are not demanding.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> You have just earn your stripes.
> 
> I've just tested using 4 x 6bx7 with Tung Sol 12sn7gt and Mullard ECC33. Total silence. I can't hear any noise with no music playing. I have very high regards for these 2 drivers and to have the quietness with 4 x 6bx7 really put a smile on my face.


Nice!


----------



## UntilThen

The incredible has happened. I added 2 more 6bx7 to make it a sextet 6bx7 with Tung Sol 12sn7gt bgrp and it has remained silent. Totally silent now. Couldn't believe it. Had to pause the music so many times just to listen for noise / hum and there's none.

Going from quad to sextet 6bx7, I can hear the difference quite clearly now. The tone is more saturated and dense. There's more molecules in the layers. Incredibly the left and right channels each sounding their own instruments clearly and distinctly. The soundscape is projected three-dimensionally and I can appreciate now what three-dimensionally meant. Sextet 6bx7 is just incredible in it's tonal presentation.

I am not going to experiment further for a while because this combination is just so engaging and captivating. I'm just going to listen to music.


----------



## UntilThen

It's morning. Powered on the amp and the sound of silence greeted me. The euphony from the Black label and the Sextet swept me off my feet. I wasn't dreaming last night.

@DecentLevi glad you had a taste of 6 x 6BL7 but you should listen to it on Ulysses. I like Glenn's voicing of this amp. It's SURREAL.


----------



## Monsterzero

Glenn sent me a photo of my soon-to-be-finished Monster GOTL


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> Glenn sent me a photo of my soon-to-be-finished Monster GOTL



Congrats! Beautiful.
It is a Monster. In a good way.


----------



## Monsterzero

rnros said:


> Congrats! Beautiful.
> It is a Monster. In a good way.



Thanks...

WARNING!

Lots of tube noob posts forthcoming!


----------



## UntilThen

I'm excited for you Monster. Congrats.

I expect no less than lots of posts from you. Looking forward to the impressions.

And its a beautiful amp. More so in the flesh.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Glenn sent me a photo of my soon-to-be-finished Monster GOTL



Looking very nice...good times ahead
Congrats


----------



## DecentLevi (May 14, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> The incredible has happened. I added 2 more 6bx7 to make it a sextet 6bx7 with Tung Sol 12sn7gt bgrp and it has remained silent. Totally silent now. Couldn't believe it. Had to pause the music so many times just to listen for noise / hum and there's none.
> 
> Going from quad to sextet 6bx7, I can hear the difference quite clearly now. The tone is more saturated and dense. There's more molecules in the layers. Incredibly the left and right channels each sounding their own instruments clearly and distinctly. The soundscape is projected three-dimensionally and I can appreciate now what three-dimensionally meant. Sextet 6bx7 is just incredible in it's tonal presentation.
> 
> I am not going to experiment further for a while because this combination is just so engaging and captivating. I'm just going to listen to music.





UntilThen said:


> It's morning. Powered on the amp and the sound of silence greeted me. The euphony from the Black label and the Sextet swept me off my feet. I wasn't dreaming last night.
> 
> @DecentLevi glad you had a taste of 6 x 6BL7 but you should listen to it on Ulysses. I like Glenn's voicing of this amp. It's SURREAL.



So ironic we both discovered the POWAH of 6x 6BL7's on the same day, a combo we've both long known 'of', both with different amps and when I was not even browsing the Glenn thread at all. And actually I wasn't expecting very much before trying it. Yup, your description is like I heard it as an externally heated setup on my Euforia amp - yet seemingly enhanced a few notches! I've still yet to fully evaluate their sound and find the winning drivers to pair them with, and I've too had no desire to remove them yet either, even among literally hundreds of other combinations. You did seem to leave out one thing - their dynamic presentation. In my system, they're giving a superb reproduction of dynamics, with immaculate PRaT (speed), bass definition and 'slam'. There's something about 6x that really make them 'sing' together, as if that's what they were born to do, and something I NEVER heard with any iterations of 2x or 4x... though I would also like to hear it on the Ulyssess of course!

Also do the 6B*L*/B*X*7 differ only by the latter having a louder gain factor, or are there other sonic differences? Though if I had one nit-pick, I'd go for a slightly less euphonic tone.


----------



## DecentLevi (May 14, 2018)

PS - can you believe this morning's 'breaking news' was that maybe the father of a prince's wife won't make it to their wedding, LOL! But the breaking news for me was my sextet of 6BL7


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Levi, its hard to do a lengthy reply whilst at work on a coffee break.

I did not just discovered 6 x 6bx7 and 6bl7. I had Ulysses since 12th Dec 2017 and the first tubes I used were c3g and sextet 6bx7.

However I am now experiencing greater sonics using sextet 6bx7 and Tung Sol 12sn7gt bgrp.... and it's quiet.

If you read my 1st impressions of Ulysses with c3g and sextet 6bx7, I mention 3 attributes that stood out for me. Dynamics, clarity and optimum damping of bass.

I will have more to say on the differences between Ulysses and Euforia this evening when I get home.

Suffice to say now that I place Ulysses several leagues above Euforia... easily and the tone is not warm and lush. It's cutting edge dynamics, bite and prat.... and a killer bass.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Glenn sent me a photo of my soon-to-be-finished Monster GOTL



*Whistles* Ain’t she a looker. Please post away with pics of the amp and different combinations of tubes.


----------



## DecentLevi (May 14, 2018)

@UntilThen,  nice to see we agree on the sound of these tubes, and the strange thing is that while 2-4x 6BL7 to me always sounded overtly lush, it's not until adding 6 that they start to really shine and are more 'focused'. It seems like the longer you're around Head-Fi, the more people agree with your impressions... it really takes a few years in this hobby to finally figure 'everything' out and know what to listen for, how to listen and on what, but there's still new things to discover all the time! Now I know why I was scolded back around 2014 when I praised the performance of my free white Android earbuds 'amped' by an outdated phone, but FWIW I did say it was a good performance "for the cost", HAha.  And a side note, I started collecting hi-fi headphones/IEMs around 2008 and my first amp was in 2014.

Sure UT, feel free to give us more impressions between Euforia and Ulysses later, and anyone please let me know their opinion on _(any?)_ sonic difference between 6B*L*/*X*7's.

I must however note something I've mentioned before; while I truly would love a Glenn amp, not to mention my tubes would too - it's currently not feasible for me due to costs and since I'm still traveling intermittently. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed @2359glenn will still be around when I'm finally ready to pre-order.


----------



## 2359glenn

I could make it 120/230 volt switchable UT's is so it will work anywhere.


----------



## Silent One

Special acknowledgement going out to 2359glenn and the outstanding head-fiers following this thread. It is very satisfying returning to all things audio this month after a very extended hiatus. A very long story made quick - one fine day in sunny Southern California, my good health left the listening room and I ran down the street after it in hot pursuit!!! This took a while...(a few years, sadly) so for security purposes, I placed my entire system in storage.

But I made it! Last month saw me move in to a new place. Though, I'm not strong enough yet to move my furnishings (mid-June), only a few priorities matter right now: audio gear; three longboards; fridge. Everything else can wait!


----------



## Monsterzero

Silent One said:


> Special acknowledgement going out to 2359glenn and the outstanding head-fiers following this thread. It is very satisfying returning to all things audio this month after a very extended hiatus. A very long story made quick - one fine day in sunny Southern California, my good health left the listening room and I ran down the street after it in hot pursuit!!! This took a while...(a few years, sadly) so for security purposes, I placed my entire system in storage.
> 
> But I made it! Last month saw me move in to a new place. Though, I'm not strong enough yet to move my furnishings (mid-June), only a few priorities matter right now: audio gear; three longboards; fridge. Everything else can wait!



Welcome back.

BTW, digging the Godzilla on the board,but I need to ask,where is Monsterzero?


----------



## Silent One (May 15, 2018)

@ Monsterzero...New York, baby!!! haha

Seems images from NY always gets Godzilla riled up!

Add: the landscape orientation of first image I posted was by design. Also, a close look reveals one of the original OTL models from 2359glenn.


----------



## gibosi

DecentLevi said:


> @UntilThen,  ......anyone please let me know their opinion on _(any?)_ sonic difference between 6B*L*/*X*7's......



In my opinion, speaking very generally, I think the 6BL7 are a bit warmer than the 6BX7.....


----------



## Monsterzero

Silent One said:


> @ Monsterzero...New York, baby!!! haha
> 
> Seems images from NY always gets Godzilla riled up!
> 
> Add: the landscape orientation of first image I posted was by design. Also, a close look reveals one of the original OTL models from 2359glenn.



It might say New York,but im a SoCal transplant...Hope to get out to the desert within the next few years.

Dude,did you just post a pic of a Sansui 33000 in the vintage thread?!? That is Holy grail material man! 300wpc!!! I gotta ask,what did that set you back,and what in the world are you driving with that behemoth?


----------



## Silent One

Monsterzero said:


> It might say New York,but im a SoCal transplant...Hope to get out to the desert within the next few years.
> 
> Dude,did you just post a pic of a Sansui 33000 in the vintage thread?!? That is Holy grail material man! 300wpc!!! I gotta ask,what did that set you back,and what in the world are you driving with that behemoth?




I'm "SoCal" but moved to B'klyn for a time seeking work. Enjoyed it but came back to LA. may try again in the future but may not recognize it much after gentrification.
On ears: modded HiFiMAN HE-6 via speaker taps
@ ears: KEF Coda 9 speakings (6 ohms)


----------



## 2359glenn

Silent One said:


> Special acknowledgement going out to 2359glenn and the outstanding head-fiers following this thread. It is very satisfying returning to all things audio this month after a very extended hiatus. A very long story made quick - one fine day in sunny Southern California, my good health left the listening room and I ran down the street after it in hot pursuit!!! This took a while...(a few years, sadly) so for security purposes, I placed my entire system in storage.
> 
> But I made it! Last month saw me move in to a new place. Though, I'm not strong enough yet to move my furnishings (mid-June), only a few priorities matter right now: audio gear; three longboards; fridge. Everything else can wait!



Hi Silent One
Glad to see you back.
Hope you stay healthy now nothing worse then being sick.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> In my opinion, speaking very generally, I think the 6BL7 are a bit warmer than the 6BX7.....



My ears would call the 6BL7 a bit warmer than the 6BX7 also.
Both are wonderful tubes, can't go wrong with either.




Silent One said:


> Special acknowledgement going out to 2359glenn and the outstanding head-fiers following this thread. It is very satisfying returning to all things audio this month after a very extended hiatus. A very long story made quick - one fine day in sunny Southern California, my good health left the listening room and I ran down the street after it in hot pursuit!!! This took a while...(a few years, sadly) so for security purposes, I placed my entire system in storage.
> 
> But I made it! Last month saw me move in to a new place. Though, I'm not strong enough yet to move my furnishings (mid-June), only a few priorities matter right now: audio gear; three longboards; fridge. Everything else can wait!



Long time no see...welcome back.
I spy one of Glenns small footprint OTL amps in your pictures.
It is great to see the thread starter back .

Wishing you good health


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Silent One and welcome back. Thread is getting lively now and that is good.

Something incredible happened. Ecc33 and sextet 6bx7 is quiet now. So quiet I can use my most sensitive headphone Eikon. Total silence with no music playing. Such is my happiness because I have regarded the Ecc33 as the most revered of my drivers.


----------



## UntilThen

The unthinkable has happened. Gec B36 and sextet 6bx7 is quiet now. It's making my Atticus sound dynamic now. This headphone has one of the best midbass I've ever heard. 

So that's 40 years of bliss with 4 great sounding drivers, assuming they last 10 years each. .. haha.

Which of these will I love the most? 

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
Tung Sol 12sn7gt black glass round plate
Mullard Ecc33
Gec B36

that will take several months as I put them through long term listening sessions.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> My ears would call the 6BL7 a bit warmer than the 6BX7 also.
> Both are wonderful tubes, can't go wrong with either.
> 
> 
> ...



That is the 2nd or 3rd OTL amp I sold a oldie. same circuit same sound just smaller.
Had to go to the larger chassis when I changed transformer manufactures. Thoardason got crazy with there price and the Heybore is larger
wouldn't fit on the small chassis.


----------



## felix3650

Some questions (curiosity  ) beforehand: 

-Is the EL3N better sounding than the OTL? My primary headphones will be the ZMF Auteur & LCD2F.

-EL3N vs OTL dimensions, how do they differ? I know the former is heavier than the latter cause of the 3x lundahl vs 1x.

Thanks guys


----------



## 2359glenn

The EL3N and the OTL are the same size unless you want the larger chassis.
What tube sounds better you might be better off is someone on this thread answers.


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> -Is the EL3N better sounding than the OTL? My primary headphones will be the ZMF Auteur & LCD2F.



I wish I could answer the first part of the question but I can't. I've not heard the EL3N amp. The OTL amp on the other hand is such a classy act with LCD2f, Eikon, Atticus and HD800. Beautiful, beautiful sound that I can't get enough. I can only recommend it without reservations, especially now that my 4 chosen drivers are perfectly quiet with six cylinders 6BX7s.

See the picture below of the Gec B36 in action and the other 3 drivers on standby. Today I'm a very happy man because they are all quiet with 6 x 6bx7 now.

As an aside, I'm still deliberating between another EL3N or 2a3 amp. Life has some hard decisions.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Silent One said:


> But I made it! Last month saw me move in to a new place. Though, I'm not strong enough yet to move my furnishings (mid-June), only a few priorities matter right now: audio gear; three longboards; fridge. Everything else can wait!



Welcome back.  Hope things continue to improve for you.


----------



## UntilThen

@Sound Infinity this is a good write up and I enjoy the interactions with fellow audio enthusiasts on their systems.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1256#post-14092808

Last year I went a bit nuts on both HiFi and Head-Fi.  I think it has stabilised now. I hope.


----------



## gibosi

> ="felix3650, post: 14241611, member: 444906"]
> 
> -Is the EL3N better sounding than the OTL? My primary headphones will be the ZMF Auteur & LCD2F.



I would suggest that in terms of sound quality, both are topnotch. One is not better than the other, but given that they are designed around different tubes, they do sound somewhat different.

In my opinion, I think it is most useful to think about the EL3N as an output transformer-coupled amp suitable for low-impedance drivers, including loud speakers. That is, there is a transformer between the output tubes and your headphones and/or loudspeakers. And it is important to keep in mind that an output transformer adds some degree of distortion. However, the Lunsdahl brand is among the very best available and if you need to drive loud-speakers and/or inefficient, low-Z headphones the EL3N might very well be the best amp for you.

On the other hand, the OTL is an output transformer-less amp. That is, there is nothing between the output tubes and your headphones, and thus an OTL has lower distortion. On the other hand, since there is no output transformer, it cannot be used to drive loudspeakers and it might not match up well with very inefficient low-Z headphones.

Further, the tube-rolling options with the EL3N are very limited, while with the OTL, the sky is the limit. 

Hope this helps with your decision... but perhaps it would be best if you buy both.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> I wish I could answer the first part of the question but I can't. I've not heard the EL3N amp. The OTL amp on the other hand is such a classy act with LCD2f, Eikon, Atticus and HD800. Beautiful, beautiful sound that I can't get enough. I can only recommend it without reservations, especially now that my 4 chosen drivers are perfectly quiet with six cylinders 6BX7s.
> 
> See the picture below of the Gec B36 in action and the other 3 drivers on standby. Today I'm a very happy man because they are all quiet with 6 x 6bx7 now.
> 
> As an aside, I'm still deliberating between another EL3N or 2a3 amp. Life has some hard decisions.





gibosi said:


> I would suggest that in terms of sound quality, both are topnotch. One is not better than the other, but given that they are designed around different tubes, they do sound somewhat different.
> 
> In my opinion, I think it is most useful to think about the EL3N as an output transformer-coupled amp suitable for low-impedance drivers, including loud speakers. That is, there is a transformer between the output tubes and your headphones and/or loudspeakers. And it is important to keep in mind that an output transformer adds some degree of distortion. However, the Lunsdahl brand is among the very best available and if you need to drive loud-speakers and/or inefficient, low-Z headphones the EL3N might very well be the best amp for you.
> 
> ...



Thank you both guys! I won't be driving speakers. My main system would be headphones (at least for the time being). And both of my headphones are easily driven and quite efficient. Probably I would opt for preamp outputs with the OTL if Glenn offers that as an option and go with powered desktop speakers.

Can't afford both unfortunately


----------



## leftside

@felix3650 The GOTL could drive you insane or insanely happy with the amount of tube rolling options. With the ELN (and the 300B) you basically get your set of tubes and you are done. Look at our good friend UT on here. He keeps telling us he's "done" with tube rolling, and then the next day he's straight back at it again!  I have the 300B, and it's the best thing since sliced bread. But, I'm also getting the GOTL, and have a bunch of new tubes lined up and ready.

To my ears, the 300B has a very modern sound. Super airy, detailed, wide soundstage, clarity, and hint of warmth with the tubes - amazing! I've listened to a lot of headphone amps and headphones over the years, and it doesn't get better than this. You'll need to make sure you also have good headphones to get the most out of it. There are noticeable differences with this amp as you go up the chain with headphones - whereas with some other amps you might not notice these differences so easily.

With the right tubes in my existing WA22, I can tweak it to sound a little more laid back and romantic. Not sure if you're familiar with McIntosh gear. Their vintage gear has a very distinctive sound, more laid back and romantic. And the newer gear has that more modern sound. I sometimes miss the vintage Mac gear that I used to have, but with the right tubes in the headphone amp I can regain some of that sound without needing to buy a bigger house with a third music room  The GOTL will give me even more options - such as the fabulous B36!


----------



## UntilThen

UT's insanely happy. If you want that insane happiness you have to follow me. 

Here's a story worth telling. I almost put my order in for a DNA Stratus but I had a rethink about the EL3N amp and I know the thought will always haunt me as to how the EL3N will sound. Besides the Stratus is an insanely one year wait and rolling 2a3 tubes might kill me. 

So .... now I am in talks with Glenn about what I want in a EL3N amp. Here are my possible choices:-

. Joe's version with 3 rca input. (Whirlwind)

. Sam's version but with vitamin-Q caps

. Sam's version without speakers output but with 3 rca inputs.

Decisions, decisions....


----------



## Xcalibur255

I would spend my money on the best transformers you can fit in your budget UT.  I regret not spending the extra money to do amorphous core trannies on my 45 amp.  It's not just a question of resolution, they improve the tone too which is what really matters.  I would also have gotten speaker outputs on mine if I could do it all over again.  45s pushing a high sensitivity speaker like Zu or Tekton is probably the sound I've been looking for all this time and I could have left that door open for myself but didn't and now I regret it.  It's always good to give yourself options.

As for the stages, I wonder if it's possible to directly couple the two EL3N stages?  As they say the best cap is no cap at all.

If that's not possible and you are not shy about spending money then using interstage transformers for coupling is an option too, though one that will make your chassis size bigger.


----------



## Silent One

Xcalibur255 said:


> Welcome back.  Hope things continue to improve for you.



I've been touched and inspired by all of your comments...thanks kindly. For me, one of the great things about the audio community is my enthusiasm for the hobby isn't solely dependent on what I have or don't have because I still can share in other's joy and continue to learn from other's adventures. What a satisfying hobby!


----------



## UntilThen

Xcal, thanks for sharing your ideas. Having speakers output is appealing to me more now. I could use high efficiency near field monitors in my study. 

Amorphorous core trannies. Is this going to cost me my kidneys? Aren't the Lundahl transformers good enough? Glenn, what do you think?

I am not going to use the Duelund coupling caps. I will go with the more humble vitamin-Q caps. 

As for directly coupling the 2 stages, I await to be educated.

Interstage transformers. Isn't that what Jetl is going to do with his specially ordered transformers?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> UT's insanely happy. If you want that insane happiness you have to follow me.
> 
> Here's a story worth telling. I almost put my order in for a DNA Stratus but I had a rethink about the EL3N amp and I know the thought will always haunt me as to how the EL3N will sound. Besides the Stratus is an insanely one year wait and rolling 2a3 tubes might kill me.
> 
> ...



If you want I can build you a 2A3 amp or 45 amp with Lundahl transformers and use a 6SN7 driver with multi voltage switch.


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> I would spend my money on the best transformers you can fit in your budget UT.  I regret not spending the extra money to do amorphous core trannies on my 45 amp.  It's not just a question of resolution, they improve the tone too which is what really matters.  I would also have gotten speaker outputs on mine if I could do it all over again.  45s pushing a high sensitivity speaker like Zu or Tekton is probably the sound I've been looking for all this time and I could have left that door open for myself but didn't and now I regret it.  It's always good to give yourself options.
> 
> As for the stages, I wonder if it's possible to directly couple the two EL3N stages?  As they say the best cap is no cap at all.
> 
> If that's not possible and you are not shy about spending money then using interstage transformers for coupling is an option too, though one that will make your chassis size bigger.



If you get speakers 12 to 16 ohm you can plug them into the headphone jack


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> If you want I can build you a 2A3 amp or 45 amp with Lundahl transformers and use a 6SN7 driver with multi voltage switch.



Geezus, my excitement level just jump many notches.

So expand on this for me. How many 2a3 or 45 tubes involved? Single driver tube or dual. Any rectifiers in this?

Obviously this is transformer coupled right?


----------



## 2359glenn

Hi Matt

Have to decide push pull or single ended or parallel single ended I prefer the sound of single ended myself push pull = more power.
What tube a 2A3 is really parallel 45s even if you look inside the 2A3 you can see it is two 45s inside except mono plate.
There is also the 6A3 or 6B4 that is a 2A3 with a 6 volt heater these might be cheaper? easier to build the heater DC power supply
less current at 6 volts.
then what driver 6SN7 , C3g , EL3n ???

Think about it
Am I driving you crazy yet? most anything is doable.
Glenn


----------



## UntilThen

I'm trying to dig up Xcal 45 tube amp picture to see how it looks.


----------



## whirlwind (May 16, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Hi Matt
> 
> Have to decide push pull or single ended or parallel single ended I prefer the sound of single ended myself push pull = more power.
> What tube a 2A3 is really parallel 45s even if you look inside the 2A3 you can see it is two 45s inside except mono plate.
> ...




Ha ha...you are going to make Matts head explode if you keep it up  

Matt, cut through the chase...get the 300B amp and be done!


----------



## UntilThen

I like the idea of a 45 or 2a3 amp. If Glenn can make it sound great with a single 6sn7 with switchable 6 / 12 / 25 volt, ultra quiet and the looks as outstanding as this, then it's looking good. 

Speakers are not a primary consideration for me. This is first and foremost a headphone amp for me. Looks are a nice attributes but the main criteria are a great sounding amp and quiet with low noise floor.


----------



## whirlwind (May 16, 2018)

felix3650 said:


> Some questions (curiosity  ) beforehand:
> 
> -Is the EL3N better sounding than the OTL? My primary headphones will be the ZMF Auteur & LCD2F.
> 
> ...



I don't think you can say one sounds better than the other...both are great.
Only roll rectifier tubes in the EL3N amp, unless you want SS hexfred, then no tube rolling.

The EL3N has two different stages that you can listen to...one tube mode and two tube mode.
One tube mode has nothing in the signal path...dark as midnight back round.
Two tube mode has more dynamics and power, killer bass if you are into that sort of thing.

I always pick the EL3N for my planar cans...the ZMF Ori and I will add another planar headphone in time to listen to with the EL3N amp.  I also use my Grado RS1 with the EL3N amp in one tube mode, if you are into transparency, this combo is fantastic.

There is really not a bad choice here..either amp can drive most headphones very well.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I'm trying to dig up Xcal 45 tube amp picture to see how it looks.



It won't look the same will have a larger chassis.
Or just go with the 300B? But 45s and 2A3s are supposed to sound better maybe??
The EL3N supposed to sound like a 45 and is much easier to work with. And only $20 can't beat that.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> It won't look the same will have a larger chassis.
> Or just go with the 300B? But 45s and 2A3s are supposed to sound better maybe??
> The EL3N supposed to sound like a 45 and is much easier to work with. And only $20 can't beat that.



I don't mind a larger chassis. In fact I like it bigger. I haven't given up on EL3N amp yet. 

c3g with 300b - I have a some reservations. High cost, much longer start up time, also I didn't have a good outcome with c3g in my OTL amp. Not the quietest of my drivers and I have 3 pairs of NOS c3g that exhibit some level of noise.

45 amp - not sure how easy it is to get tubes now, even the new production EML. Can you still buy this?

2A3 - more choices if you consider EML, Sophia Princess, Psvane and Shuguang.

The reason I mention 6sn7 is because I already have 4 lovely sounding drivers.  But would 6sn7 drive 45 or 2a3 well? I wouldn't know so will be guided by you.


----------



## UntilThen

Whilst I'm discussing a new tube amp, I can't help but feel that the GOTL sounded so good right now listening to it. It's truly outstanding.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> The reason I mention 6sn7 is because I already have 4 lovely sounding drivers.  But would 6sn7 drive 45 or 2a3 well? I wouldn't know so will be guided by you.



Or adding an optional 6SN7 driver socket to the GEL3N... ?
Since EL3N is supposed to sound like the 45, and you already have those great 6SN7.
Choice of EL3N or 6SN7 driver with EL3N power. Is that doable?


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Or adding an optional 6SN7 driver socket to the GEL3N... ?
> Since EL3N is supposed to sound like the 45, and you already have those great 6SN7.
> Choice of EL3N or 6SN7 driver with EL3N power. Is that doable?



EL3N amp looks great now. Adding an extra socket would be like repainting Mona Lisa eyebrows.

Also Glenn mention about EL3N driving EL3N with equal distortion and that is the best outcome.... or something similar... how would I know.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> EL3N amp looks great now. Adding an extra socket would be like repainting Mona Lisa eyebrows.
> 
> Also Glenn mention about EL3N driving EL3N with equal distortion and that is the best outcome.... or something similar... how would I know.



GEL3N does look great. Not sure about Mona Lisa.


----------



## UntilThen

On the 4th day, Sound Infinity wrote:-

_This sweet little amp just keeps impressing me. The mids and treble is just starting to settle down and the lows are blossoming beautifully, this wonderful EL3N amp which Glenn built is *starting to sound more and more like a well resolved solid state amp.* Its *punchy and dynamic, with that touch of sweetness in the mids and lows.* Drives my Phi (which is my hardest to drive headphones) with authority and sings well with my LCD-2F and HD6XX.
_
I like that. I don't like a tone that's too warm, lush and romantic. I like a tone that's dynamic and electrifying. Not that I want to be electrocuted but you get my drift. That's my preference.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> Or adding an optional 6SN7 driver socket to the GEL3N... ?
> Since EL3N is supposed to sound like the 45, and you already have those great 6SN7.
> Choice of EL3N or 6SN7 driver with EL3N power. Is that doable?



No problem to make a EL3N amp with 6.3-12.6-25.2 SN7 driver
But the beauty of EL3N driving a EL3N is similar distortion that will be out of phase and cancels out the distortion.
But there is the fun of tube rolling SN7s.
Forget about the 300B unless you plan on using TAK's or the new WE's all the rest are total crap. Never tried the EML though.
I had it with 300Bs filaments burning out and for no reason blowing the fuse after on for awhile. Plan on redoing my 300B amps 
to use a EL34s.
.
If it was me I would make a EL3N with ether a EL3N or SN7 driver.


----------



## UntilThen

I don't think I want another amp that will start me tube rolling all over again. With 2 amps in full throttle with tube rolling, the rehab resort will refuse me entry.

Had another look at Sam's EL3N amp and it's really beautiful. Am leaning on getting that with speakers output but with Sprague vitamin-Q coupling caps.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I don't think I want another amp that will start me tube rolling all over again. With 2 amps in full throttle with tube rolling, the rehab resort will refuse me entry.
> 
> Had another look at Sam's EL3N amp and it's really beautiful. Am leaning on getting that with speakers output but with Sprague vitamin-Q coupling caps.



I will have to see if I can get some vitamin-Q caps getting rare. Or I can use the same Russian military paper and oil caps that I used in your OTL.
I think they sound good too.

Oh you can roll rectifier tubes I think a nice GZ37 fat bottle will look nice


----------



## UntilThen

Oh sure my OTL amp sounds wonderful so whatever caps is in there will do. I only mention Sprague vitamin-q caps because you told me it's in Joe's amp.

GZ37 fat bottle.... GEC MOV? Sure look veeery nice !


----------



## 2359glenn

Shouldn't have sold your EL3Ns guess you can get more.
The GEC MOV GZ37 is a little pricy but sounds wonderful and looks great. The amp will also be able to use the 3DG4 and with a modified 
adapter.. You can use all the 4 volt rectifiers Ken uses in his OTL. Some of them are really nice. The adapter has a internal resistors
that get the adapter really hot. I remove them and use a high power resistor in the amp for the 3DG4


----------



## gibosi

Just to clarify things a bit...  The so-called "Fat GZ37" was manufactured by Cossor and marketed by them as a 53KU. The British military number was CV378. However, I have also seen this tube labeled as a GZ33 and GZ37 from various resellers. Cossor quit the tube manufacturing business by the mid 1950's and Mullard's "Skinny GZ37" essentially took its place in the marketplace. And it too was sold to the military as a CV378.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> I like a tone that's dynamic and electrifying. Not that I want to be electrocuted but you get my drift. That's my preference.



With tube rolling with the GOTL and the different "other amp" configurations I think this is your only hope:


----------



## mordy

Question: The EL3N amp does not offer much in tube rolling - would EL6 tubes be feasible (same pinout)?
The EL6 is 1.3A and similar to the EL12, whereas the EL3N is 0.9A and similar to the EL11.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Silent One said:


> I've been touched and inspired by all of your comments...thanks kindly. For me, one of the great things about the audio community is my enthusiasm for the hobby isn't solely dependent on what I have or don't have because I still can share in other's joy and continue to learn from other's adventures. What a satisfying hobby!



I've always found your positivity towards things to be inspirational and a reminder that life's journey should be about expanding our viewpoints, not narrowing them.  I win some of those battles and lose others, but it's nice little reminders like this that help me stay in the fight.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Question: The EL3N amp does not offer much in tube rolling - would EL6 tubes be feasible (same pinout)?
> The EL6 is 1.3A and similar to the EL12, whereas the EL3N is 0.9A and similar to the EL11.



Yes it will work at least for the output stage.
Don't tell UT that there could be tube rolling on the EL3N amp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Yes it will work at least for the output stage.
> Don't tell UT that there could be tube rolling on the EL3N amp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hi 2359glenn,
Opening up Pandora's box:
If somebody could come up with a EL3N to EL11/12 or EL12 Spez adapter, would those tubes also be suitable?
BTW, IMHO, the best tube sockets I have come across are the German Steel Y8A sockets - they have a very positive easy to use click in feel to them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> I'm trying to dig up Xcal 45 tube amp picture to see how it looks.



You can specify the amorphous core version of most Lundahl output transformers for a hundred or so dollars more.  It depends on the model, sometimes the cost increase is higher.

Between 2A3 and 45 my personal opinion is that it's better to focus on 45.  The extra power from a 2A3 doesn't add anything for headphones in my experience.  Also, even though a 2A3 is basically two 45 tubes in the same glass bottle, they don't really sound identical.  My amp began life with the ability to use either tube.  When it had its accident and had to be repaired I asked Glenn to remove the feature because I had a clear preference for the 45 sound and was never going to use the 2A3 mode.

There are definitely things I would do differently today.  The choice of rectifier was probably the biggest one.

The big question is what is really the difference here between 45 and EL3N?  Glenn feels the EL3N sounds as good as the 45.  I'm sure the flavors are a little different, but both nice.  I really would have liked to have the chance to compare the EL3N directly to my 45 so I could answer this question for myself and others, but that didn't come to pass.

There is also another possibility you might want to consider:  basing your output stage around the 46 instead of the 45.  I was very, very impressed with the 46 tubes I was sampling the other month.  The most striking thing about them is the sense of air and space they put around the notes.  The 45 has a very "dense" sound that doesn't really breathe a lot, and not everybody loves the intimacy of it.  People talk about soundstage in terms of what "row" you are in....... well with the 45 you are literally in front of the microphone.  The 46 throws a bigger sound field and lets everything out to breathe, and manages to have better resolution than the 45 tubes I compared it to as icing on the cake.

You can run the 46 with adapters even if you don't design the amp for it, but they end up getting run very hard that way and I think this tube is good enough that it might be worth designing the amp's operating points for it specifically.  The major downside is there is no new production tubes available for the 46, and old stock is sometimes a pain to find.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm probably overwhelming you at this point UT....... sorry.  

If you find yourself leaning towards 45 don't hesitate to PM me.


----------



## Monsterzero

I have a pretty solid list of 6.3v tubes I can roll for my upcoming GOTL,but Hansotek was unable to provide info on the 12v and 25v options. Can anyone chime in and guide me? I want to poke my head down this rabbithole,but not fall completely in,if that makes sense.


----------



## leftside

UT posted this info a while back:

12sn7 and variants (set switch to 12.6 volts)
. 12sn7
. B36
. FDD20 using FDD20 to 6SN7 adapter

25sn7 and variants (set switch to 25.2 volts)
. 1633
. 13D1

One of the reasons I'm getting a GOTL is so I can use the B36. I have a bunch of B65 (metal base and regular black base), but I get nervous handling them as they are so expensive these days.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes it will work at least for the output stage.
> Don't tell UT that there could be tube rolling on the EL3N amp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Just woke up from sleep so I need to digest this a little.

So Glenn, are you saying that the EL6 tube will work in the EL3N amp? This is a light bulb moment.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'm probably overwhelming you at this point UT....... sorry.
> 
> If you find yourself leaning towards 45 don't hesitate to PM me.



Overwhelmed to the point of electrocution but seriously your posts are always informative and enlightening. Appreciate your views.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Shouldn't have sold your EL3Ns guess you can get more.



That's not a problem. I know Peter of Acoustics-Dimension well. I was the first to get in contact with him regarding the EL3N tubes.

The last time I corresponded with him, he told me there was a tapering off in demand for these tubes. I told him not to worry the demand will be coming soon.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Glenn, I have purchased a pair of this. NOS and new in box. So this will give me 8 watts of power in the EL3N amp? May drive my Voicebox now.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn will this work in the EL3N output stage? 
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Two-Val...029447&hash=item3b0a6031a5:g:YogAAOSwvApaEE3i

 

Now the rabbit hole is getting deeper...


----------



## 2359glenn

That is kind of expensive for not trying the EL6 yet? If the EL6 works they will.
I would still use the EL3N for the drivers. Maybe try the EL6 at some time.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> That is kind of expensive for not trying the EL6 yet? If the EL6 works they will.
> I would still use the EL3N for the drivers. Maybe try the EL6 at some time.


Hi UT,
Here are some EL6 Spez that cost less:
https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=EL6+Spez&_sacat=0&LH_PrefLoc=3


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> That is kind of expensive for not trying the EL6 yet? If the EL6 works they will.
> I would still use the EL3N for the drivers. Maybe try the EL6 at some time.



No worries. Not buying those straight tubes for that price. Will just try the red EL6.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Here are some EL6 Spez that cost less:
> https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=EL6+Spez&_sacat=0&LH_PrefLoc=3



Thanks Mordy. Again I won't be buying anymore until I can verify that the red EL6 works in the output stage.

Perhaps @Sound Infinity can try first. I haven't even ordered my amp.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
I have one each EL6 of Philips, Valvo and Tungsram - all bought used. They sound similar to the EL12 but without being temperamental - well behaved and polite.
Here is something to think about for your next amp (has EL6 tubes):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PHILIPS-TUBE-CINEMA-Amp-P-P-EL6-Metal-Base-100-original-Collection-Seldom-/222828637994?hash=item33e19f2f2a:g:suAAAOSwXOVaewGj&nma=true&si=pC%2BcpeA6VhPu6%2F8qiWP%2Fpiqa0W0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## UntilThen

Correct Mordy. The EL6 has the power of the EL12. They are just different base.

I will talk to Glenn about accomodating the EL6 to work in the output stage for my amp.


----------



## UntilThen (May 16, 2018)

My decision to get the EL3N amp is not dependant on EL6 working.

I am primarily using it as a headphone amp and if the 1.5 w drives a high efficiency speakers then that's a bonus.

Several factors help me with this decision. There are several who already owns the amp that gave very favourable reviews. Jetl and his friends in evaluating some top notch amps even gave mention of the EL3N that the sound signature bears some resemblance to the DNA Stratus.

Finally the reviews of several tubes in Jacmusic, gave a gold award to EL3N with the comment that it's the closest to the 2a3 in tone.

Lastly as if finally is not enough, Glenn the designer thinks it's close to the 45 tone and he likes it himself to want one.

And now with Yamamoto's sockets, the EL3N paddle feet has become happy feet.


----------



## UntilThen

Additionally I can go nuts rolling rectifiers. Nah I won't do that. 

I promise myself that I will have only 3 rectifiers.

So if you can only have 3 rectifiers, what would it be?


----------



## leftside

I think you can use the EL3N tubes with the GOTL:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-EL3N-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter/191769639044


----------



## UntilThen

I can but I won't. I like it neat and nice.

I sold 2 of those adapters to Ross.


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> Additionally I can go nuts rolling rectifiers. Nah I won't do that.
> 
> I promise myself that I will have only 3 rectifiers.
> 
> So if you can only have 3 rectifiers, what would it be?



53KU
U52
GZ34


----------



## UntilThen

jekjek said:


> 53KU
> U52
> GZ34



Do these need adapters. What about GZ37 fat bottle.

I heard about U52. That's a nice rectifier.


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> Do these need adapters. What about GZ37 fat bottle.
> 
> I heard about U52. That's a nice rectifier.



No they do not need any adapter. Its plug and play
Langrex have a nice GZ37 fat base for sale
Faster, act before its gone!


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Do these need adapters. What about GZ37 fat bottle.
> 
> I heard about U52. That's a nice rectifier.



No adapter needed.
Make it 4 rectifiers I will give a 3DG4 with the amp.


----------



## UntilThen

4 is a nice number. I won't rush into rectifiers just yet. Will use that 3DG4 first and see how I like it.

Patience is a good virtue.


----------



## Oskari

jekjek said:


> 53KU
> U52
> GZ34





UntilThen said:


> What about GZ37 fat bottle.





gibosi said:


> The so-called "Fat GZ37" was manufactured by Cossor and marketed by them as a 53KU.


----------



## UntilThen

Ah I see. Just starting to discover rectifiers.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> My decision to get the EL3N amp is not dependant on EL6 working.
> 
> I am primarily using it as a headphone amp and if the 1.5 w drives a high efficiency speakers then that's a bonus.
> 
> ...




Nice choice on the amp.
I am not to sure you will be able to keep it at four rectifiers though  
If it can drive your speakers, that would be a great plus for you.

I am hoping these Yamamoto sockets are well worth the price, Glenn says they are so I take him at his word.


----------



## UntilThen

Was there any EL3N built with preamp function? If the EL3N amp works well as a preamp, it could feed into my 165w 8 ohms Redgum amp. 

Also when referring to 1 stage, is that just using the 2 front tubes? and 2 stage using all the 4 tubes?


----------



## 2359glenn

It is a powerful rectifier.
I think I am going to stop making the amps to take the 3DG4 more work for me and I don't think anybody likes it. It don't look cool a plane Jane.
But one of the best rectifiers especially for the OTL only the SS rectifiers are more powerful.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Was there any EL3N built with preamp function? If the EL3N amp works well as a preamp, it could feed into my 165w 8 ohms Redgum amp.
> 
> Also when referring to 1 stage, is that just using the 2 front tubes? and 2 stage using all the 4 tubes?



No just the two back tubes buy the output transformers. Just the output tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Yamamoto Soundcraft is making sockets for the EL3N now?  That's a win.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> It is a powerful rectifier.
> I think I am going to stop making the amps to take the 3DG4 more work for me and I don't think anybody likes it. It don't look cool a plane Jane.
> But one of the best rectifiers especially for the OTL only the SS rectifiers are more powerful.



Yeah, for some reason it seems to be a hard sell most of the time.  It's a shame because these tubes are great with the low voltage drop.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> It is a powerful rectifier.
> I think I am going to stop making the amps to take the 3DG4 more work for me and I don't think anybody likes it. It don't look cool a plane Jane.
> But one of the best rectifiers especially for the OTL only the SS rectifiers are more powerful.



Oh don't drop off the 3DG4. If it sounds good and is cheap, I think that's cool. 

Some of the rectifiers like the Marconi GZ37 is as expensive as my pair of Gec 6as7g !!


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Yamamoto Soundcraft is making sockets for the EL3N now?  That's a win.



I think they have been making the Au8 sockets for a while but @rnros brought it to Glenn's attention. Some interesting writeup here about this socket type and the tubes made in that era. Also talk about the red paint providing RF shielding.

http://www.jacmusic.com/Tube-testers/L3/Improvements/AZ1-Socket/Index-AZ1.htm

I think this socket will provide a good and secure fit for the EL3N paddle feet. Only @Sound Infinity 's EL3N amp have it so far.


----------



## UntilThen

Listening again to Ulysses running Tung Sol 12sn7gt black glass round plates with 6 x GE 6bx7gt again. I have heard this combination many times now but I still can't believe the dynamics and power of this combination.

@DecentLevi  here's a brief comparison of Euforia and Ulysses for you. I write as I hear them and from my recollection. No owner's bias here. I don't get paid for these writeups. 
Euforia running EL11 and EL12 tubes has an enhanced clarity and dynamics. It's very engaging on the ears but wait till you hear Ulysses running traditional tube like the Tung Sol 12sn7gt bgrp and 6 x 6bx7. This takes dynamics to another upper level. It's a beautiful, powerful presentation. Scaringly beautiful.

For a start the voicing of both amps are different. Euforia is a very nice tone. Don't get me wrong. Very good clarity and details but it's overshadowed by Ulysses. Euforia's bass is good and doesn't offend but it doesn't stand out. Ulysses bass with rock music will put a smile on your face. Ulysses soundstage is wider than Euforia but La Figaro 339 soundstage is the widest of the 3. Of the 3 tube amps, Euforia has more warm and lushness. A fact pointed out to me by my son too. This was when he was listening to both Euforia and La Figaro 339. Sure all 3 amps can be tuned to a certain degree by tubes but the overall tone is as I described it.

I have to state that this is according to my ears and gear. Source is Tidal 16/44.1 via PC through Yggdrasil and headphones are HD800, LCD-2f, Eikon and Atticus.

Your mileage may vary.


----------



## UntilThen

jekjek said:


> No they do not need any adapter. Its plug and play
> Langrex have a nice GZ37 fat base for sale
> Faster, act before its gone!



Jekjek is it this one? 
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/U54-GZ3...m=273047493051&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Just to clarify things a bit... The so-called "Fat GZ37" was manufactured by Cossor and marketed by them as a 53KU. The British military number was CV378. However, I have also seen this tube labeled as a GZ33 and GZ37 from various resellers. Cossor quit the tube manufacturing business by the mid 1950's and Mullard's "Skinny GZ37" essentially took its place in the marketplace. And it too was sold to the military as a CV378.



Gibosi, do rectifiers have their own sound signature? You obviously have heard both the fat and skinny GZ37. How would you characterise their sound. Or do they sound the same.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Jekjek is it this one?
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/U54-GZ37-MARCONI-MOV-VINTAGE-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC49/273047493051?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=50923&meid=c66b5eb4b2bf4c7b8973c8d49e4d84f6&pid=100033&rk=4&rkt=8&sd=273047493051&itm=273047493051&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042



Have to be crazy to pay that for a rectifier tube I don't pay over $4.
Hell the 4 HEXFREDS in your OTL cost me $4 and they are better then any tube rectifier.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Gibosi, do rectifiers have their own sound signature? You obviously have heard both the fat and skinny GZ37. How would you characterise their sound. Or do they sound the same.



Yes, rectifiers have sound signatures. And in very general terms, rectifiers and double triodes manufactured in the same factory tend to "sound" similar. For example, a GEC U52 sounds very similar to a GEC 6AS7.

So no, the fat Cossor 53KU does not sound like the skinny Mullard GZ37. As to how they compare, I will defer to the Dubstep Girl:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/


----------



## rnros

@UntilThen The capacitor I'll be using for my GEL3N is the Jupiter Copper Foil Paper/Wax.
That is, unless Glenn has some objection to that cap.
http://jupitercondenser.com/product/copper-foil-paper-wax-capacitors/

Here is a review by DHTRob, who built the EL3N amplifier:
https://www.dhtrob.com/impressies/jupiter_copperfoil.php

About half the price of the Duelund CAST PIO, here is a comparative sound review:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0514/jupiter_copper_foil_paper_wax_capacitor.htm
The sound impressions here are probably closer to my own preferences, vs the Duelund.
(LOL, I'm sure I would be very happy with either one!)

Your friends at Acoustic Dimension carry this cap, they may have additional info.
IMHO, a good QPR, given that the cost is comparable to the premium one might pay for a 'better' tube,
yet the caps will be there for every tube you use.


----------



## jekjek

UntilThen said:


> Jekjek is it this one?
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/U54-GZ37-MARCONI-MOV-VINTAGE-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC49/273047493051?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=50923&meid=c66b5eb4b2bf4c7b8973c8d49e4d84f6&pid=100033&rk=4&rkt=8&sd=273047493051&itm=273047493051&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042



Yes thats the one
Thinking of getting one too


----------



## UntilThen

Now we are talking caps. Things just got more interesting.

But didn't Tyrell say the best cap is no cap at all? 

Alright I will look into caps.


----------



## UntilThen

jekjek said:


> Yes thats the one
> Thinking of getting one too



That makes 2 crazies or passionate rectifier lovers. Why not.

It's a very lovely looking tube.

Just to be sure. This the gz37 fat bottle and not the Gec u52 right? They are both featured in Dubstep girl thread.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Have to be crazy to pay that for a rectifier tube I don't pay over $4.
> Hell the 4 HEXFREDS in your OTL cost me $4 and they are better then any tube rectifier.



I agree the hexfred sound great in my OTL and did not regret it for a minute. Besides the amp looks great in that layout.

However with the EL3N, I need a bit of rectifiers in my life.


----------



## jekjek (May 17, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> That makes 2 crazies or passionate rectifier lovers. Why not.
> 
> It's a very lovely looking tube.
> 
> Just to be sure. This the gz37 fat bottle and not the Gec u52 right? They are both featured in Dubstep girl thread.



Yeah, they are not the same

And they sound completely different too


----------



## UntilThen

What    in    the    world    is   this?  

Makes all the other rectifiers look cheap !

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Wes...986154?hash=item2cd428846a:g:KncAAOSwYBta9n~u


----------



## UntilThen

Dubstep girl did a wonderful job with that compendium on rectifiers but some of those tubes are very expensive now.

Interesting her writeup of the 3DG4 that seems to be usable only in Glenn's amp. I'll start with this. Not going to rush headlong like a fast moving freight train into rectifiers.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks @rnros for the link on the Jupiter caps. Interesting read and nice looking caps. 

However I can't help thinking of the russian military caps that Glenn said is used in my OTL amp. The amp sounds great ! So I will leave it to the designer.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Listening again to Ulysses running Tung Sol 12sn7gt black glass round plates with 6 x GE 6bx7gt again. I have heard this combination many times now but I still can't believe the dynamics and power of this combination.


Why are you getting another amp? You have about 50 pages on here raving about the GOTL.


----------



## attmci (May 17, 2018)

OK


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Dubstep girl did a wonderful job with that compendium on rectifiers but some of those tubes are very expensive now.


Some of us don't believe rectifiers make that much of a difference. All they do is control the voltage drop. I'm in the minority here, but I believe that thread on rectifiers to be a wonderful work of fiction.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Why are you getting another amp? You have about 50 pages on here raving about the GOTL.


 
2 different flavours. I think they are both very nice presentation in tone.

The same way you're getting the OTL after you had the 300b amp.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> 2 different flavours. I think they are both very nice presentation in tone.
> 
> The same way you're getting the OTL after you had the 300b amp.


Fair enough. I'm getting the GOTL to tube roll. And with my experiments with the WA22 with certain tubes, there is a particular different sound I'm looking for.

Go for a bigger difference between the amps and get the 300B? Then we can compare 

As a side note, I've finally found some tubes for my Mac amps that I think beat the new production Gold Lions 12AT7's. I picked up a quad of 1952 spot welded metal plate Amperex from a guy in Canada. Super sweet tubes with a texture I can almost taste.


----------



## UntilThen

You don't think the OTL and EL3N will be a bigger difference in sound? I think it will be. At least from the descriptions of owners. When I hear that the EL3N sounds powerful and solid state like, I know that will be vastly different from the OTL. My guess is that the OTL will sound more tubey and warmer than the EL3N. This could make the OTL pair better with the HD800.

I wouldn't be getting the 300b. The overall cost of amp plus good 300b tubes will be substantial. When may friend loan me the WA5 with the EML 5U4G rectifier and Takaksuki 300b tubes, I thought to myself if I drop those tubes I'll be in deep crap.  I'll have to repay him with Shuguang 300b. 

And you know what after 2 weeks with WA5-LE and those tubes, I still prefer what I'm hearing from the GOTL. Granted Glenn's 300b will sound different and from Tony's comment, beat the crap out of it. 

Another amp that I muse about is the Cayin HA-300b but I've since forgotten about that. Not going to dwell on that any longer.

As I'm typing all this, I had Yggdrasil connected to my HiFi system in the lounge and I'm wondering why I'm not listening to the speakers more. This is another flavour and it's awesome.


----------



## UntilThen

Rolling speakers now. I think I still prefer the Axis LS88 floor standers. The bass extensions is on another level.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> You don't think the OTL and EL3N will be a bigger difference in sound? I think it will be. At least from the descriptions of owners. When I hear that the EL3N sounds powerful and solid state like, I know that will be vastly different from the OTL.


I doubt they'll sound vastly different. I guess we'll find out. But heck, I don't hear too much of a difference between modern tube gear and modern solid state gear by the same brands these days. Just subtle differences. YMMV.


----------



## lukeap69

leftside said:


> I doubt they'll sound vastly different. I guess we'll find out. But heck, I don't hear too much of a difference between modern tube gear and modern solid state gear by the same brands these days. Just subtle differences. YMMV.


@whirlwind Joe has both. He can tell us if the GEL3N and OTL sound very different. Can you chime in Joe?


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn obviously has heard both.  So he can tell us too.

Jetl and @Rossliew has had both amps at some point too. So they can tell us too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Rolling speakers now. I think I still prefer the Axis LS88 floor standers. The bass extensions is on another level.



I prefer my floor standers to my premium bookshelf speakers, too, for the same reason.  

There is no chance that a watt and a half or even eight watts would substitute for my 250 WPC Hafler amp, either...


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Glenn obviously has heard both.  So he can tell us too.
> 
> Jetl and @Rossliew has had both amps at some point too. So they can tell us too.



You will be in a good company then Matt.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> I prefer my floor standers to my premium bookshelf speakers, too, for the same reason.
> 
> There is no chance that a watt and a half or even eight watts would substitute for my 250 WPC Hafler amp, either...



That's what my Redgum has 265w into the 4ohms floor standers.

My house shoke when I played 'Stairways To Heaven'. 

Perhaps I should forget about speakers out on the EL3N amp.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> You will be in a good company then Matt.



I'm indeed in good esteem company.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn obviously has heard both.  So he can tell us too.
> 
> Jetl and @Rossliew has had both amps at some point too. So they can tell us too.



The EL3N amp drives low impedance phones better. My better half Lucy bought me Audio-Technica closed back phones for Christmas.
Never really liked them on the OTL they are 35 ohms on the EL3N they sound great. I would prefer to use the closed back because
I tend to listen to loud and disturb other people mainly Lucy when using the HD-800s or HD-650s.
The Audio-Technica really didn't have good base until I plugged them into the EL3N amp became a whole new phone.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn, there's no doubt that those 2 amps will drive certain headphones optimally. The EL3N low impedance headphones while the OTL high impedance headphone.

However aside from that, what would be beneficial is how different they sound. This is what I would love to hear from those who have heard these 2 amps because OTL and transformer coupled amps will not be similar sounding.


----------



## leftside

The LCD3 have an impedance of 110 ohms and the LCD4 have an impedance of 200 ohms. Even though the LCD4 has a higher impedance, it is much harder to drive (not for the 300B amp I hasten to add). The WA22 has no problem with the LCD3, but struggles with the LCD4.  The sensitivity of the LCD3 is 102dB/1mW and the LCD4 is 97dB/1mW.

For these Audeze headphones it appears the sensitivity is more relevant than the impedance.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Perhaps I should forget about speakers out on the EL3N amp.


Yes


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> There is no chance that a watt and a half or even eight watts would substitute for my 250 WPC Hafler amp, either...


Darn right!


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Yes, rectifiers have sound signatures. And in very general terms, rectifiers and double triodes manufactured in the same factory tend to "sound" similar. For example, a GEC U52 sounds very similar to a GEC 6AS7.
> 
> So no, the fat Cossor 53KU does not sound like the skinny Mullard GZ37. As to how they compare, I will defer to the Dubstep Girl:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/



I was always a bit bothered by that big review thread because it can be a little mis-leading IMO.  Those listening impressions are only really valid for the specific amp she used for the testing, but most people will treat the impressions as applicable to the tube in general and believe them valid regardless of the application.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Gibosi, do rectifiers have their own sound signature? You obviously have heard both the fat and skinny GZ37. How would you characterise their sound. Or do they sound the same.



Rectifiers in general can affect the sound of an amp in two ways:  1) Through the amount of voltage drop they exhibit, which varies from tube to tube and affects the operating points of the other tubes in the amp (thus changing their sound), and 2) by the properties and behavior of the diodes (recovery times, noise, etc.).

An amp is only as good as its power supply and the rectifier is part of the power supply.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (May 18, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Now we are talking caps. Things just got more interesting.
> 
> But didn't Tyrell say the best cap is no cap at all?
> 
> Alright I will look into caps.



If you have that option.  In many cases you don't.  Trust Glenn's advice on this subject, he knows more than all the rest of us combined.  I'm not an amp designer like he is, I don't fully understand which circumstances let you do direct stage coupling with no coupling cap.  I only know that people do it sometimes and that it's a plus when the option is available.  The fewer components you have in the audio signal path the better.  It's like a bucket brigade passing water to a fire:  the more buckets the water goes through the more sloshes out each time and less ends up on the fire.  Each cap and resistor adds a tiny bit more coloration/distortion/etc. to the sound and takes a tiny bite out of transparency.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (May 18, 2018)

For those looking into caps:  Duelund has a new product out called the JAM.  It's the successor the Duelund Alexander which I used in my amp.  The designer claims the JAM is built the same way as their top of the line CAST capacitor, only packaged in a less expensive aluminum can rather than the exotic pressed paper that CAST uses.  Some early reviews say it's pretty close to the CAST in most ways and better than the Alexander was.

They're doing initial release promotional pricing right now so you can get them for around $50 which is pretty good for what's being offered.  I think I bought my Alexanders on sale for 80-ish and that didn't feel like a waste of money at the time. 

The interstage coupling cap is one of the more important things in the amp for sound quality.  This is one place where it's best to splurge rather than skimp.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> There is no chance that a watt and a half or even eight watts would substitute for my 250 WPC Hafler amp, either...



Such comparison is pointless, There's the right amp for every system. Big inefficient speakers will require the right amp to drive. However the EL3N amp might just be capable of providing adequate level of enjoyment driving high efficiency speakers if you don't need floor moving experience. In the study, on the desktop, it may be all you need.

The lounge system on the other hand is different.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> If you have that option.  In many cases you don't.  Trust Glenn's advice on this subject, he knows more than all the rest of us combined.  I'm not an amp designer like he is, I don't fully understand which circumstances let you do direct stage coupling with no coupling cap.  I only know that people do it sometimes and that it's a plus when the option is available.  The fewer components you have in the audio signal path the better.  It's like a bucket brigade passing water to a fire:  the more buckets the water goes through the more sloshes out each time and less ends up on the fire.  Each cap and resistor adds a tiny bit more coloration/distortion/etc. to the sound and takes a tiny bite out of transparency.



I will certainly be guided by Glenn's suggestions. Having live with the OTL amp for 6 months, I know Glenn builds some of the nicest sounding headphone tube amps out there. I could not get enough of the OTL tone.

When I ordered my OTL amp, I did not discuss caps with Glenn because I know next to zero on the subject. I left it to him. Only a few days ago did he mentioned it was the Russian military caps that were used in my amp and it sounded like a million bucks ... the amp that is.

Glenn's philosophy of getting the best sound with cheap affordable tubes certainly makes sense. These low cost sextet 6BX7gt tubes are now permanently resident in the power slots. I am only rolling my different drivers now.


----------



## Phantaminum

I have to ask. Is anyone using the GOTL with preamps out —> solid state high power speaker amp —> Speakers? I’d love to hear what people think. If possible the sound changes they hear and pros / cons? 

I may just opt for it once and for all. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it right?


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Only a few days ago did he mentioned it was the Russian military caps that were used in my amp and it sounded like a million bucks ... the amp that is.


Probably the K40-Y9 if memory serves.  They sound very good.  It's possible to do better, but you have throw money at the situation.
I do think the new Duelund JAM would be worth their price.  I think the Alexanders are better than the K40's.  Not a lot better, but the tone is a little more true and the extension a bit better.  If the JAM is better than the Alexander, which is what people are saying, then $46 doesn't seem like too much to ask for that level of performance.

For reference I don't think you find the K40 for less than $20 a pair anymore either.  At least not on eBay.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Such comparison is pointless, There's the right amp for every system. Big inefficient speakers will require the right amp to drive. However the EL3N amp might just be capable of providing adequate level of enjoyment driving high efficiency speakers if you don't need floor moving experience. In the study, on the desktop, it may be all you need.
> 
> The lounge system on the other hand is different.




Not suggesting trying to power the floor standers with a GEL3N. 

I personally have never found effecient speakers to sound very good. 

If you purchase a GEL3N - you will enjoy it powering low Z cans but since you already have the floor standers and a “big power” amp...

I am suggesting you will be entertained via effecient speakers and a watt and a half headphone amp...for about......15 to 30 seconds...

After that, the idea will be forgotton.


----------



## gibosi (May 18, 2018)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Rectifiers in general can affect the sound of an amp in two ways:  1) Through the amount of voltage drop they exhibit, which varies from tube to tube and affects the operating points of the other tubes in the amp (thus changing their sound), and 2) by the properties and behavior of the diodes (recovery times, noise, etc.).



With all due respect, based on my experience, I think it is bit more complicated....

Over the years, I have been struck by the fact that rectifiers and double triodes manufactured in the same factory sound quite similar. That is, there is a Telefunken sound, a GEC sound, a Mullard sound, and so on. This suggests to me that many of the same variables are at play which affect the sound of rectifiers and double triodes. After all, a full-wave rectifier is simply a double triode without grids. In each case, there is a complex metal structure mounted inside a glass bottle that vibrates and even moves and sways. And it is my understanding that this vibration and movement is a significant source of harmonic distortion.

Again, rectifiers and double triodes manufactured in the same factory tend to sound very similar. An assembly line in a Mullard factory is designed and constructed differently than one in a GEC factory. And the mechanical differences in tubes produced on different assembly lines produce different harmonic distortion curves which result in a different "sound". Tubes manufactured in different factories sound different. Tubes manufactured in the same factory sound similar.

In my experience, voltage drop does not seem to affect the sound of a rectifier as much as harmonic distortion. For example, I have measured the voltage drop of several AZ50 manufactured in different factories. They measure the same, but sound different. And that difference in sound correlates directly with the factory of origin.

Anyway, this is just my two cents... YMMV....


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I have to ask. Is anyone using the GOTL with preamps out —> solid state high power speaker amp —> Speakers? I’d love to hear what people think. If possible the sound changes they hear and pros / cons?
> 
> I may just opt for it once and for all. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it right?



You have to ask @yates7592 . His amp has preamp out and he was using it with speakers.

... and we still don't know who the new owner of his amp is.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Probably the K40-Y9 if memory serves.  They sound very good.  It's possible to do better, but you have throw money at the situation.
> I do think the new Duelund JAM would be worth their price.  I think the Alexanders are better than the K40's.  Not a lot better, but the tone is a little more true and the extension a bit better.  If the JAM is better than the Alexander, which is what people are saying, then $46 doesn't seem like too much to ask for that level of performance.
> 
> For reference I don't think you find the K40 for less than $20 a pair anymore either.  At least not on eBay.



This is good info. I will mention the Duelund JAM to Glenn.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> I am suggesting you will be entertained via effecient speakers and a watt and a half headphone amp...for about......15 to 30 seconds...
> 
> After that, the idea will be forgotton.



I have to agree that you will be right, especially in my situation. I have tasted the apple and it's good. Redgum driving my Axis LS88 is like going to a party and discover you can salsa with the prettiest girl on the dance floor. .... without falling over.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> With all due respect, based on my experience, I think it is bit more complicated....



I have never roll a single rectifier in my entire life but I have a strong hunch that I agree with you Ken.

I was reading the DNA Stratus thread and those guys there are firmly convinced that different rectifiers contribute their own unique characteristics of warm, lush, bright, vivid, smooth, grainy etc. Some of them have the coveted WE 422a.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I have never roll a single rectifier in my entire life but I have a strong hunch that I agree with you Ken.
> 
> I was reading the DNA Stratus thread and those guys there are firmly convinced that different rectifiers contribute their own unique characteristics of warm, lush, bright, vivid, smooth, grainy etc. Some of them have the coveted WE 422a.



The WE-422 is the lowest voltage drop of any tube I tested so far. Only SS has a lower voltage drop of .7 volts
To be honest I have been surcharging for this tube at a some what reasonable price.
I do have a skinny GZ37 Mullard waiting for my EL3N amp to be built some day when I have time.
The GZ34 has a lower voltage drop but it is such a boring tube to look at.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> This is good info. I will mention the Duelund JAM to Glenn.



Capacitors have a large effect on the sound. Even larger then changing tubes.
As far as the Russian military cap they sound good for  a low price. I never done a A-B with a Duelund .
Both sound good to me don't know what one sounds better. The Jupiter copper foil paper and bees wax sounds good too.


----------



## attmci

*Laurel vs. Yanny*

1 vote for Yanny.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The WE-422 is the lowest voltage drop of any tube I tested so far. Only SS has a lower voltage drop of .7 volts
> To be honest I have been surcharging for this tube at a some what reasonable price.
> I do have a skinny GZ37 Mullard waiting for my EL3N amp to be built some day when I have time.
> The GZ34 has a lower voltage drop but it is such a boring tube to look at.



Glenn I have just found a reasonable price WE-422a for you.  
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Western...rentrq:7604bbf61630ab15e9e61474fffd76cb|iid:1


----------



## ru4music

Haven't posted for a while, reading all post (sometimes ~100/ day ), my only comment is ... it's all good!


----------



## UntilThen

ru4music said:


> Haven't posted for a while, reading all post (sometimes ~100/ day ), my only comment is ... it's all good!



Hello mate, where is the review of Scarlett you promise me.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (May 18, 2018)

gibosi said:


> With all due respect, based on my experience, I think it is bit more complicated....
> 
> Over the years, I have been struck by the fact that rectifiers and double triodes manufactured in the same factory sound quite similar. That is, there is a Telefunken sound, a GEC sound, a Mullard sound, and so on. This suggests to me that many of the same variables are at play which affect the sound of rectifiers and double triodes. After all, a full-wave rectifier is simply a double triode without grids. In each case, there is a complex metal structure mounted inside a glass bottle that vibrates and even moves and sways. And it is my understanding that this vibration and movement is a significant source of harmonic distortion.
> 
> ...



Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you at all.  I was just trying to offer a simple high level understanding for people who haven't looked into rectifiers much at all yet.  I see people argue in other threads that rectifiers can't affect the sound because of the role they play, and I hate to see people here read that and believe it.  I think one of the main reasons rectifiers seem to have their own unique flavors aside from Vdrop is due to differences in diode switching noise.  Much the same way SS power supplies can vary so much.

I'm sure you are on to something correlating the origin of manufacture of the tubes.  I was just trying to offer another angle on the discussion is all.  Also sometimes I have the bad habit of direct replying someone when what I'm really after is the quote snippet to base the reply off of and my reply isn't actually directed to any one particular person.  It makes sense conversationally in my head but I fail to realize another person reading has absolutely no way of knowing that was my intent.

When I quoted you I wasn't actually replying directly to you.  My post was meant to be informative for people in the thread learning about the topic.  I really should be more clear on things like that, that's my bad.


----------



## gibosi (May 18, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> The WE-422 is the lowest voltage drop of any tube I tested so far. Only SS has a lower voltage drop of .7 volts
> To be honest I have been surcharging for this tube at a some what reasonable price.
> I do have a skinny GZ37 Mullard waiting for my EL3N amp to be built some day when I have time.
> The GZ34 has a lower voltage drop but it is such a boring tube to look at.



In my OTL, the plug-in HEXFRED has a voltage drop of 1 (well 0.7). The GZ34 is 13 and the 3DG4 is 17. What is the voltage drop for the WE-422?


----------



## Monsterzero (May 18, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> I have to ask. Is anyone using the GOTL with preamps out —> solid state high power speaker amp —> Speakers? I’d love to hear what people think. If possible the sound changes they hear and pros / cons?
> 
> I may just opt for it once and for all. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it right?



If you can remind me later I can answer that question as my GOTL will come with outputs that i plan on running out to one of my vintage SS receivers,ranging from 50 to 125wpc. I will be feeding a pair of Focal 905 Aria. I can also try running into my GoldenEar T2s, but those arent going to be part of the intended system normally.


----------



## leftside

I see that *bangybangtubes* is having quite the sale. I picked up a bunch of power tubes for less than my refused offer prices from a few weeks ago.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I see that *bangybangtubes* is having quite the sale. I picked up a bunch of power tubes for less than my refused offer prices from a few weeks ago.



Well done. Keep building up the tubes in preparation for the OTL.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Capacitors have a large effect on the sound. Even larger then changing tubes.
> As far as the Russian military cap they sound good for  a low price. I never done a A-B with a Duelund .
> Both sound good to me don't know what one sounds better. The Jupiter copper foil paper and bees wax sounds good too.



Thanks for convincing me that capacitors have a larger effect on sound than changing tubes. With that in mind I started googling Dueland JAM and I came upon this thread. 
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/jam-by-duelund

It seems that Jupiters copper foil paper caps is even more highly regarded. So Glenn I will talk to you about Jupiters caps. If it's no good, I can blame @rnros . 

Anyway I had a rethink about what I want in the EL3N amp. The picture below where the HD800 sits is where I will put the GEL3N. Getting a large chassis isn't going to help, especially now that I don't want speakers output. Also I don't need 3 rca inputs. The only input will be from Yggdrasil. So I will keep it simple and smart.

So similar to this but with Yamamoto's sockets.

 

...and my music corner. The 2 amps side by side will be ideal.


----------



## rnros (May 19, 2018)

@UntilThen
Well, if your GELN is going to be the same as mine, maybe Glenn can build them side by side at the same time... 

Anyway until then, UntilThen, we have the GOTL.
Eight months and this one is still improving, either that or I'm in a constant state of amazement. Thanks Glenn.
6BX7s and FIVRE 6N7G, listening to Patricia Barber's beautiful piano work in Nightclub,
now over to Ishizaka's Well Tempered Clavier... Outstanding weight, tone, and presence to these pianos.

And yes, these tubes are dead quiet. Fed by a simple '54 Raytheon 5U4G.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> @UntilThen
> Well, if your GELN is going to be the same as mine, maybe Glenn can build them side by side at the same time...



Exactly the same down to the caps? I want the words '_UntilThen_' on the faceplate. 

It's true the OTL amp sounds really good. I wonder how the EL3N will measure against it. 

Just read that the Mullard GZ32 sounds very good and will work well in the EL3N amp.

Oh I'm going to ask Glenn to make me the plug in ss hexfred rectifier.


----------



## UntilThen

This should sticky on the 1st page for easy reference.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-942#post-12840892


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Exactly the same down to the caps? I want the words '_UntilThen_' on the faceplate.
> 
> It's true the OTL amp sounds really good. I wonder how the EL3N will measure against it.
> 
> ...



Looking forward to it for all those reasons, even if it does have 'UntilThen' on the faceplate.  : )

Don't have the GZ32. Do have the MUL GZ37 skinny.
Have maybe six rectifiers, all different shades of good. Although some are better to my ear.
Variations in tone, stage, presence. Assuming we all have preferences.
But also true that the GEL3N may have it's own preferences.
Yes, I have to get one of the Hexfred plugins.


----------



## whirlwind

Ken has been kind enough to send me a GZ32 to try in my EL3N amp.

 \


----------



## UntilThen

Very nice Joe. How does it sound? Is this Philips Miniwatt the same?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PHILIPS...329824?hash=item285a755160:g:b9QAAOSwFPda-DEF

but I like this from Langrex. Looks delicious.


----------



## whirlwind

Tubes all have very similar construction, at least as far as I can see.

My picture taking skills are poor in comparison to gibosi...he always captures the construction really well and I love checking out his tube pics.

As far as sound I can not comment, as I have not heard the GZ32 yet.


----------



## whirlwind

I can hardly keep up with the thread  

Time has been occupied with this album ever since my pre order arrived early this past week
Album has been on a continuous loop


----------



## UntilThen

Well here's a review of GZ34, GZ37 and GZ32 as used on the OTL amp.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-616#post-10401677


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Is this Philips Miniwatt the same?


Yes.


----------



## attmci

attmci said:


> *Laurel vs. Yanny*
> 
> 1 vote for Yanny.


Link:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/dont-rest-on-your-laurels/560483/


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Thanks for convincing me that capacitors have a larger effect on sound than changing tubes. With that in mind I started googling Dueland JAM and I came upon this thread.
> https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/jam-by-duelund
> 
> It seems that Jupiters copper foil paper caps is even more highly regarded. So Glenn I will talk to you about Jupiters caps. If it's no good, I can blame @rnros .
> ...



@rnros is right the Jupiters are very good maybe better then the Duelund. I have use more Duelund but that is on request.
I have some Jupiters waiting for @whirlwind new OTL to be built.
What I found as long as they are paper caps not any type of plastic foil no matter how expensive the paper sound better.
I have tried $200 V-caps and the $2 Russian paper in oil sounded much better.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> @rnros is right the Jupiters are very good maybe better then the Duelund. I have use more Duelund but that is on request.
> I have some Jupiters waiting for @whirlwind new OTL to be built.
> What I found as long as they are paper caps not any type of plastic foil no matter how expensive the paper sound better.
> I have tried $200 V-caps and the $2 Russian paper in oil sounded much better.


If it's of any help, I went with a combo of Jupiter Copper and Mundorf silver oil in my Lampizator GA DAC.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> Yes.



Thanks Oskari. That Miniwatt is cheaper than others.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Thanks Oskari. That Miniwatt is cheaper than others.


There's no point in paying for the brand.  The tube was made by Mullard at Blackburn.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> @rnros is right the Jupiters are very good maybe better then the Duelund. I have use more Duelund but that is on request.
> I have some Jupiters waiting for @whirlwind new OTL to be built.
> What I found as long as they are paper caps not any type of plastic foil no matter how expensive the paper sound better.
> I have tried $200 V-caps and the $2 Russian paper in oil sounded much better.



Joe should be very happy with his OTL amp because the Jupiter copper caps looks good too.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Joe should be very happy with his OTL amp because the Jupiter copper caps looks good too.



Nice cap only I will be using 600 volt ones.    .47 Uf  600 volt


----------



## UntilThen

Similar to this then. Look at the glowing review from Rob.
https://www.dhtrob.com/impressies/jupiter_copperfoil.php


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Nice cap only I will be using 600 volt ones.    .47 Uf  600 volt



Thank you for grabbing these for me Glenn, much appreciated.


----------



## JazzVinyl (May 20, 2018)

i used very expensive boutique caps for the crossovers in my DIY floor stander speakers, and never regretted it.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Hello folks, how's everyone doing? Sorry for the lack of updates as I have been away for the past week. I have managed to put in the straight bottom EL3 as the power tubes and honestly, it doesn't make much of a difference for me. However the EL3s are probably noisier when I have no music playing and on 2 tube mode. With music playing, it sounds really similar to the EL3N. I have since put back the EL3Ns which came with the amp as it was not my intention to roll EL3 tubes. Seriously, this amp is already beautiful sounding as it is and it is everything which I have expected it to be. Clean, drives my Abyss Phi with authority, has plenty of resolution for critical listening and is highly musical. I stand by my comment of the EL3N sounding really like a well-resolved SS amp with a touch of warmness. I agree with Glenn's comments on the EL3N matching really well with low Z headphones, the Abyss Phi (42 ohms) and TH900 Mk2 (25 ohms) sound fantastic with the EL3N. I think now I need an OTL to match with the higher Z cans (Auteur/HD6XX) but I can't wrap my head round the many tube combinations.

Running the EL3N with the different headphones which I have was really interesting and it is very easy to tell each headphone's strength thru the EL3N:
- Best HIghs: Abyss Phi
- Best Mids: ZMF Auteur
- Best Mid bass: ZMF Auteur
- Bass (Quantity): Fostex TH900 Mk2
- Bass (Quality): Abyss Phi
- Sound stage: Abyss Phi
- Resolution: Abyss Phi

I would also try to write a longer review down the road.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks SI. That's all I need to know... that the EL3N amp is like a well resolved ss amp with a touch of tube warmness.

That's the tone I'm after. Glenn's EL3N amp based on that description is the polar opposite of what I heard of the EL3N tubes in Elise, where it's warm and lush.


----------



## gibosi

Sound Infinity said:


> .......I agree with Glenn's comments on the EL3N matching really well with low Z headphones, the Abyss Phi (42 ohms) and TH900 Mk2 (25 ohms) sound fantastic with the EL3N. *I think now I need an OTL to match with the higher Z cans (Auteur/HD6XX) but I can't wrap my head round the many tube combinations.*



Not necessarily. Order an OTL with two sockets for C3g and six sockets for 6BL7 / 6BX7. Thus far fewer tube combinations. And enjoy.


----------



## UntilThen

I would also like to add that you don't need to tube roll in the OTL amp. Pop in a Tung Sol 6sn7gt black glass round plates with 6 x 6bx7gt and that's it. 

My Tung Sol 12SL7gt tube arrived today. If it sounded like the 6sn7, then that's 2 of those black pearl for me.


----------



## UntilThen

Ken thinks alike except I would rather use the 6sn7 slots because my c3g tubes are not quiet. If it's quiet I would use the c3g too.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> Thanks SI. That's all I need to know... that the EL3N amp is like a well resolved ss amp with a touch of tube warmness.
> 
> That's the tone I'm after. Glenn's EL3N amp based on that description is the polar opposite of what I heard of the EL3N tubes in Elise, where it's warm and lush.



In fact, I have heard SS amps which sound noticeable warmer than the GEL3N (eg. Cavalli Liquid Carbon). 8w with the EL6 sounds interesting for speakers as well, I'll probably look for a pair of EL6 to try when I hunt around for my speakers.



gibosi said:


> Not necessarily. Order an OTL with two sockets for C3g and six sockets for 6BL7 / 6BX7. Thus far fewer tube combinations. And enjoy.





UntilThen said:


> I would also like to add that you don't need to tube roll in the OTL amp. Pop in a Tung Sol 6sn7gt black glass round plates with 6 x 6bx7gt and that's it.
> 
> My Tung Sol 12SL7gt tube arrived today. If it sounded like the 6sn7, then that's 2 of those black pearl for me.



Thanks gibosi and UT, so a 8 socket (2 for drivers and 6 for outputs) will be good? What about rectifiers? SS or tube?


----------



## Sound Trooper

Oh! I forgot to mention that the EL3N amp will be known as KISSty from now on!


----------



## UntilThen

Sam don't buy the EL6. I have a mint pair arriving which I will send to you. If it sounds GREAT, you will return it to me when I come to Spore in Aug. Otherwise you may hang it on the christmas tree. 

I love my OTL with hexfred ss rectifier but since you have both the EL3N and possibly the OTL going with tube rectification might be good. You can share rectifiers between the 2 amps !


----------



## gibosi (May 20, 2018)

Sound Infinity said:


> Thanks gibosi and UT, so a 8 socket (2 for drivers and 6 for outputs) will be good? What about rectifiers? SS or tube?



Eight sockets for C3g as you need two of them. If you follow UT's suggestion 7 sockets, as you need only one 6SN7. Or you could get two C3g and one 6SN7, 9 sockets. But then, it would be too easy to lose your footing on the tube-rolling slippery slope. lol

And if the goal is to keep tube rolling to a minimum, SS rectification, of course.


----------



## UntilThen

My next amp shall be called 'UntilThen'. Great name.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> Sam don't buy the EL6. I have a mint pair arriving which I will send to you. If it sounds GREAT, you will return it to me when I come to Spore in Aug. Otherwise you may hang it on the christmas tree.
> 
> I love my OTL with hexfred ss rectifier but since you have both the EL3N and possibly the OTL going with tube rectification might be good. You can share rectifiers between the 2 amps !



Thanks UT, please don't send the EL6 first as I have still not got around looking for speakers yet. We can have a go with the EL6 in KISSty when you come by in Aug.



gibosi said:


> Eight sockets for C3g as you need two of them. If you follow UT's suggestion 7 sockets, as you need only one 6SN7. Or you could get two C3g and one 6SN7, 9 sockets. But then, it would be too easy to lose your footing on the tube-rolling slippery slope. lol
> 
> And if the goal is to keep tube rolling to a minimum, SS rectification, of course.



Thanks Ken. Between two C3g and one 6SN7, which would have the most gratification?

@2359glenn how long is the waiting line now?


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> My next amp shall be called 'UntilThen'. Great name.



The amp after UntilThen will be called UntilNow?


----------



## gibosi (May 20, 2018)

Sound Infinity said:


> Thanks Ken. Between two C3g and one 6SN7, which would have the most gratification?



I think it comes down to your tolerance for noise. The C3g and 6BX7 together have perhaps a bit too much gain, and therefore, this combination is not as quiet as a 6SN7 and 6BX7. That said, a little background noise doesn't bother me. The C3g and 6BX7 are one of my favorite combinations. In fact, this is what I am currently listening to - Telefunken C3g, Tung-Sol 6BX7 and Cossor 53KU. And I have the original transformer, so my amp is never as quiet as UT's. But, if you must have an absolutely quiet amp, the C3g may not be the best choice.....


----------



## jekjek

gibosi said:


> I think it comes down to your tolerance for noise. The C3g and 6BX7 together have perhaps a bit too much gain, and therefore, this combination is not as quiet as a 6SN7 and 6BX7. That said, a little background noise doesn't bother me. And I have the original transformer, so my amp is never as quiet as UT's. So, if you must have an absolutely quiet amp, the C3g may not be the best choice.....



@Sound Infinity use the 6h13c or 6080 if you using C3g as driver. Too much gain for c3g and 6bx7 together. Agree with gibosi on this one.
My GOTL is using the same transformer as gibosi


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> The amp after UntilThen will be called UntilNow?



No it will be called 'TheEnd'.


----------



## Sound Trooper

gibosi said:


> I think it comes down to your tolerance for noise. The C3g and 6BX7 together have perhaps a bit too much gain, and therefore, this combination is not as quiet as a 6SN7 and 6BX7. That said, a little background noise doesn't bother me. The C3g and 6BX7 are one of my favorite combinations. In fact, this is what I am currently listening to - Telefunken C3g, Tung-Sol 6BX7 and Cossor 53KU. And I have the original transformer, so my amp is never as quiet as UT's. But, if you must have an absolutely quiet amp, the C3g may not be the best choice.....



Hi Ken, when you say noise do you mean you hear it when music is not playing? You can't hear noise from the drivers when music is playing correct?


----------



## gibosi

Sound Infinity said:


> Hi Ken, when you say noise do you mean you hear it when music is not playing? You can't hear noise from the drivers when music is playing correct?



Yes, the only time I hear the noise is when there is no music playing. So for me, at least, it is very easy to ignore....


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> No it will be called 'TheEnd'.


Now.. that's a great name!


----------



## Sound Trooper

jekjek said:


> @Sound Infinity use the 6h13c or 6080 if you using C3g as driver. Too much gain for c3g and 6bx7 together. Agree with gibosi on this one.
> My GOTL is using the same transformer as gibosi



Hi Emil, will want to hear your OTL in comparison with the EL3N as well!


----------



## jekjek

Sound Infinity said:


> Hi Emil, will want to hear your OTL in comparison with the EL3N as well!



I will be away mid june and come back on 23 june
Let me know which driver you want to listen


----------



## Sound Trooper

gibosi said:


> Yes, the only time I hear the noise is when there is no music playing. So for me, at least, it is very easy to ignore....



I think it might be tolerable for me.

@gibosi @UntilThen , what tube combinations do you recommend for a lush and romantic sound.


----------



## Sound Trooper

jekjek said:


> I will be away mid june and come back on 23 june
> Let me know which driver you want to listen



Sure, take care and have a safe trip!


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> No it will be called 'TheEnd'.


I think that's what he meant by untilnow.


----------



## 2359glenn

Anyone that don't know this who have the OTl. If you leave the voltage switch in the wrong position and put a lower voltage tube in. 
The low voltage power supply will current limit and the blue light in the switch will go out.
This is to save expensive tubes if left in the wrong position.


----------



## UntilThen

I am aware of that Glenn. Have experience the dim blue light before. Now I double check the switch before I power on the amp.

Anyway wish me luck as I'm about to pop the Tung Sol 12SL7gt black glass round plates together with 6 x 6BX7gt in the amp. If you don't hear from me again, you will know I have gone to the other side.


----------



## 2359glenn

I am sure it will sound great cant beat BGRP as the driver.
So if we don't here from you you are in bliss.


----------



## UntilThen

Holy crap after 5 minutes warm up, it's as silent as a lamb and I'm still alive. Sounds like silence of the lamb !!! With no music playing of course.

After 2 minutes into the song, I'm in heaven. The TS 12sl7gt sounds just like the TS 12sn7gt. Both BGRP. Can't believe. !!! Furthermore I had thought that because the amplification of 6sl7 is 70, it's going to blast my eardrums. To my surprise, my volume level is the same as when using 12sn7. Same level of loudness.

Now this is the best part. The 12sn7gt cost me AU$117. The 12sl7gt cost me AU$30. Guess what I will be buying next?


----------



## whirlwind (May 21, 2018)

Sound Infinity said:


> Hello folks, how's everyone doing? Sorry for the lack of updates as I have been away for the past week. I have managed to put in the straight bottom EL3 as the power tubes and honestly, it doesn't make much of a difference for me. However the EL3s are probably noisier when I have no music playing and on 2 tube mode. With music playing, it sounds really similar to the EL3N. I have since put back the EL3Ns which came with the amp as it was not my intention to roll EL3 tubes. Seriously, this amp is already beautiful sounding as it is and it is everything which I have expected it to be. Clean, drives my Abyss Phi with authority, has plenty of resolution for critical listening and is highly musical. I stand by my comment of the EL3N sounding really like a well-resolved SS amp with a touch of warmness. I agree with Glenn's comments on the EL3N matching really well with low Z headphones, the Abyss Phi (42 ohms) and TH900 Mk2 (25 ohms) sound fantastic with the EL3N. I think now I need an OTL to match with the higher Z cans (Auteur/HD6XX) but I can't wrap my head round the many tube combinations.
> 
> Running the EL3N with the different headphones which I have was really interesting and it is very easy to tell each headphone's strength thru the EL3N:
> - Best HIghs: Abyss Phi
> ...



Thanks for the update on the EL3 tubes.
I always have called the EL3N amp warm and dynamic, this pretty much sums it up for me.
The warmness of the EL3N tube definitely shines through, no doubt that is in this tubes DNA...but the sound is big and dynamic.
I tend to like a warm sound with my music, very easy on the ears for long periods of time.
I am guessing being transformer coupled keeps it from sounding too warm..I like the transformer coupled sound, guessing the trannies need to be top notch though.

The Abyss bass must be killer!
Thanks again for the EL3 update.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Thanks for the update on the EL3 tubes.
> I always have called the EL3N amp warm and dynamic, this pretty much sums it up for me.
> The warmness of the EL3N tube definitely shines through, no doubt that is in this tubes DNA...but the sound is big and dynamic.
> I tend to like a warm sound with my music, very easy on the ears for long periods of time.
> ...



The Abyss Phi has some of the nicest bass out there. It hits low, hard and very cleanly. By comparison, the TH900 Mk2 has more bass (quantity wise) but is a tad muddy next to the Abyss. To me, the Abyss is like a hyper car, a lot of care needs to be taken to ensure that it is performing at its best. But when it all works, its simply sublime.


----------



## UntilThen (May 21, 2018)

Sound Infinity said:


> @gibosi @UntilThen , *what tube combinations do you recommend for a lush and romantic sound*.



If you don't mind spending (a bit ), I would recommend Gec B36 with a pair of Gec 6as7g. Strangely both these tubes came from Stavros. The pair of Gec 6as7g has perfect readings and I've never seen a newer pair of Gec 6as7g. The Gec B36 is also NOS NIB. I have to thank Stavros again. He parted with some jewels of the Nile.

Here I have Gec B36 as driver with Gec 6080 and Gec 6as7g as power tubes. Decadent sound. Never will I run it like this again. These tubes are too precious to burn up for normal listening. For normal listening get yourself some Tung Sol 12sl7gt bgrp. I can't stop listening now. Amazing tone with 6 x GE 6BX7gt. I just bought a NOS NIB pair for AU$99.




This is my new pair of TS 12sl7gt bgrp. - 1949 and has the suffix 2C52.


----------



## UntilThen

TS 12sl7gt bgrp in the driver's seat. TS 12sn7gt bgrp on the stand. This is the beauty of Glenn's OTL. You only need one of these beauties that cost just a fraction of their very expensive 6sn7 cousin.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> *I am guessing being transformer coupled keeps it from sounding too warm.*.I like the transformer coupled sound, guessing the trannies need to be top notch though.



I'm hoping that will be the case too. Slight warm is ok but I don't like it too warm. However it's all personal preference. In the ultimate scheme of things, it's the total package that counts. That means the source, amp, tubes, headphones... and the type of music of course.

EL3N being big in sound is something I can relate to. That is what I hear with the tubes in Elise. I call it the wall of sound. This is also what I hear with the Takasuki 300b tubes in the WA5 too. It's a big sound and the mids is really something. Vocals ! Really splendid.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> I would also like to add that you don't need to tube roll in the OTL amp. Pop in a Tung Sol 6sn7gt black glass round plates with 6 x 6bx7gt and that's it.
> 
> My Tung Sol 12SL7gt tube arrived today. If it sounded like the 6sn7, then that's 2 of those black pearl for me.



I like to expand on this because I wrote this quickly during lunchtime today.

In the 6 months of experimenting with tubes in the OTL amp, I heard some angelic tones. It's as good as it gets. Gec 6as7g, Gec 6080, Tung Sol 5998, Bendix 6080b, Cetron 6336b. All fabulous power tubes. However strangely, I'm gravitating towards 6 x 6bx7 more. There's something in these 6 nuggets tone that had me hook, line and sinker.

So in the last month of deliberation, these are my favourite of all time combination:-

6 x 6bx7 or 6bl7 (for me any brand. I'm not that fussy). Having said that I do prefer 6bx7 more than 6bl7. It's less vivid than 6bl7. The 'matte sheen' tone just appeal to me more than the 6bl7 more 'glossy' tone. This is how I would describe their differences. Maybe I'm subconsciously thinking of the much overdue deck painting !

However I'm very choosy when it comes to drivers. I have lots of drivers which sounds really good but these 4 are just so so special to my ears. I can't even rank them because I love them equally. So here they are one more time, in no order of preference:-

Tung Sol 12sn7gt or 12sl7gt black glass round plates
Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
Mullard ECC33
Gec B36


----------



## UntilThen

I've practically run out of steam buying good tubes. I mean how many superb drivers can you listen to? However if you're not yet crash and burn, you might want to try these. They are supposed to be the premium of all 6sl7. I've not heard them and I should just banished them from my mind.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-x-6SU...553103?hash=item545c2aab4f:g:8VEAAOSw46ha~vD~


----------



## gibosi

Sound Infinity said:


> I think it might be tolerable for me.
> 
> @gibosi @UntilThen , what tube combinations do you recommend for a lush and romantic sound.



It's hard to beat RCA for lush, warm and romantic, so six RCA 6BL7 or 6BX7 coupled with Siemens C3g, which pair up nicely with almost everything.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I've practically run out of steam buying good tubes. I mean how many superb drivers can you listen to? However if you're not yet crash and burn, you might want to try these. They are supposed to be the premium of all 6sl7. I've not heard them and I should just banished them from my mind.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-x-6SU...553103?hash=item545c2aab4f:g:8VEAAOSw46ha~vD~



Yes, if you are going to roll 6SL7 that Tung-Sol 6SU7GTY and the Sylvania Gold Brand 6SL7WGT with round plates are pretty great.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Yes, if you are going to roll 6SL7 that Tung-Sol 6SU7GTY and the Sylvania Gold Brand 6SL7WGT with round plates are pretty great.



Ken you have those tubes? Don't tempt me. You should pop in that TS 6su7gty and tell me how it sound. Having spend the last 3 hours listening to TS 12sl7gt bgrp and 6 x 6bx7, I can confidently say that 12sl7 works very well in the GOTL. Looking at some of the 12sl7 tubes on sale, it's 1st world tubes at 3rd world prices. This is the last time I'm saying this ...for obvious reasons.

Now I'm looking at @leftside because he will roll the mother of all 12sl7 tubes - the ECC35.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> @gibosi @UntilThen , what tube combinations do you recommend for a lush and romantic sound.



I don't know how lush and romantic you want it to be. If you combine drivers and power tubes as well as rectifiers that are warm and lush, you might get creamy chocolate. 

However off the top of my head these are warm and lush drivers:-
. Mullard ECC31
. RCA 6sn7gt vt231 smoke glass

power tubes:-
. for really warm and lush there's only one - RCA 6as7g


----------



## wazzupi

Ok got a bid going for ecc31 6 days left bid is at 10 dollars "stares intensely at screen"


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> Not necessarily. Order an OTL with two sockets for C3g and six sockets for 6BL7 / 6BX7. Thus far fewer tube combinations. And enjoy.


Except my Darna uses tube rectifiers, that is her configuration. I use preamp (Schiit Sys actually) to reduce the volume to have a little bit of play on the OTL when running 6BL7/6BX7. I think a set of 6BX7's and a pair of good 6AS7's will be what's needed and you"ll have a flexible setup already.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> If you don't mind spending (a bit ), I would recommend Gec B36 with a pair of Gec 6as7g.
> 
> Here I have Gec B36 as driver with Gec 6080 and Gec 6as7g as power tubes. Decadent sound.


Agreed. This is most likely the combo(s) I'll be running with the GOTL. I got my GEC 6AS7Gs for reasonable prices, and the GEC 6080's for cheap at 28 GBP each. The GEC 6080's have broken pin guides, but as they have the numbers on the bottom of the tube, they are easy to line up and sound great in my WA22. They seem to have a different tone to other 6AS7G equivalents. I'm a big fan of the GEC tubes, and am going to save for 4 KT88's for my main amps.

Unfortunately the GEC 6080's are getting harder and harder to find. Seems the GEC 6AS7G's come up for sale more often.


----------



## leftside

jekjek said:


> @Sound Infinity use the 6h13c or 6080 if you using C3g as driver. Too much gain for c3g and 6bx7 together. Agree with gibosi on this one.
> My GOTL is using the same transformer as gibosi


All the C3g's I've tried in the 300B have been dead silent.

I tried out the Russian 6H13C at the weekend. As Glenn has said, those are definitely great bang for the buck tubes! Obviously, not as much gain as the TS 5998, but still sound good.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> However I'm very choosy when it comes to drivers. I have lots of drivers which sounds really good but these 4 are just so so special to my ears. I can't even rank them because I love them equally. So here they are one more time, in no order of preference:-
> 
> Tung Sol 12sn7gt or 12sl7gt black glass round plates
> Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
> ...


Can't argue with that. On top of that also possibly ECC31, ECC32 and ECC35. I've also got some fairly exotic 12AX7 and 12AU7 including 1952 - 1954 welded plates that I'm looking forward to trying.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Ken you have those tubes? Don't tempt me. You should pop in that TS 6su7gty and tell me how it sound. Having spend the last 3 hours listening to TS 12sl7gt bgrp and 6 x 6bx7, I can confidently say that 12sl7 works very well in the GOTL. Looking at some of the 12sl7 tubes on sale, it's 1st world tubes at 3rd world prices. This is the last time I'm saying this ...for obvious reasons.
> 
> Now I'm looking at @leftside because he will roll the mother of all 12sl7 tubes - the ECC35.


6SL7


----------



## wazzupi

leftside said:


> 6SL7


I won the bid on two black glass round plate 6su7gty nos nib for 140$ was it worth ?


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Anyone that don't know this who have the OTl. If you leave the voltage switch in the wrong position and put a lower voltage tube in.
> The low voltage power supply will current limit and the blue light in the switch will go out.
> This is to save expensive tubes if left in the wrong position.


That's a pretty clever design feature Glenn.


----------



## wazzupi

I just read the 1951 was the best year but thats coming from 1 dude with a story. I find it hard to believe when i look at the design of all the tubes and the description of what makes the tube so good.


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> That's a pretty clever design feature Glenn.



Hey I was testing a amp and left the switch on 25.2 and plugged in a 12SN7 and it shut down.
Stavros has the only amp that don't have this feature just a transformer multi voltage. Not so good for the tube if left on the wrong higher setting.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> I won the bid on two black glass round plate 6su7gty nos nib for 140$ was it worth ?



It's a sought after tube. This is asking for $300 a pair. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rare-Vi...525177?hash=item467bf77339:g:d8cAAOSwzRlaLqjw

Looks like you're in for a hell of a ride when your OTL arrives.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> It's a sought after tube. This is asking for $300 a pair. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rare-Vi...525177?hash=item467bf77339:g:d8cAAOSwzRlaLqjw
> 
> Looks like you're in for a hell of a ride when your OTL arrives.


Imma go tone deaf


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Imma go tone deaf



You already have Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, Tung Sol 12SL7gt BGRP and now the TS 6su7gty bgrp. That's 2 of my personal favourites. Let's put it this way. I rather have just a few very nice drivers than a bunch of ordinary drivers.  By ordinary ones, I'm looking at my Ken Rad 6sn7gt black glass and Sylvania 6sn7wgt. These are very good drivers too but not anywhere close to my top 4.

ECC31 should have make it to my top list. I have a superb NOS brand new tube from Langrex that is super quiet. The reason I didn't include it is because it sounds warmer and lusher. Just a shade more than the others. It could be a very useful driver for a brighter system.


----------



## UntilThen (May 21, 2018)

leftside said:


> Can't argue with that. On top of that also possibly ECC31, ECC32 and ECC35. I've also got some fairly exotic 12AX7 and 12AU7 including 1952 - 1954 welded plates that I'm looking forward to trying.



You're going to have a ball of a time when your OTL arrives. I have heard the Woo WA22 at Addicted To Audio albeit for a short 2 hours audition with probably lack lustre tubes but I have a feel for it's tone signature. Not a bad tone. I was quite pleased with it. This transformer coupled amp has a more precise tone, ala the WA6-se but much better. That said I never like the WA6-se. Definitely different from the WA2 and WA5. I have heard all these Woo amps at some point, including the WA33.

From recollection the WA22 bass doesn't hit the way it does like the GOTL. For rock, blues and electronica, GOTL will make you cringe for joy. However I'm compartmentalising GOTL because I've also heard Jazz and classical with it and it's smooth as can be. Even Morzart wants one !

Off course I spelt Mozart wrongly. I sense a defamation lawsuit coming.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> You already have Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, Tung Sol 12SL7gt BGRP and now the TS 6su7gty bgrp. That's 2 of my personal favourites. Let's put it this way. I rather have just a few very nice drivers than a bunch of ordinary drivers.  By ordinary ones, I'm looking at my Ken Rad 6sn7gt black glass and Sylvania 6sn7wgt. These are very good drivers too but not anywhere close to my top 4.
> 
> ECC31 should have make it to my top list. I have a superb NOS brand new tube from Langrex that is super quiet. The reason I didn't include it is because it sounds warmer and lusher. Just a shade more than the others. It could be a very useful driver for a brighter system.



I can get 6SU7 tubes for $12 each not sure what brand but I bought some 6F8Gs from this guy for $12 and got TSBGRP and NU round plate
for cheep.


----------



## whirlwind

You got 6F8G TSBGRP  & NU 6F8G for $12 each ?

If so...you stole those


----------



## UntilThen

It's the TS 6SU7gty that is sought after. If you can get one for $12 let me know. TS BGRP for cheap? Joe beat me to it. You stole it. 

I have NU black glass. 2 of them. One labelled as Raytheon and was new. These are my 2nd rung tubes. Not in the calibre of the TS bgrp in my opinion.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> The Abyss Phi has some of the nicest bass out there. It hits low, hard and very cleanly.



I want to talk about this for a bit. I was at the Sydney local head-fi meet last year. I brought my Yggdrasil and Ragnarok. My friend brought his WA5-le with the glamorous Takasuki 300b tubes. Abyss and Focal Utopia were present.

I was eager to snap on the Abyss for an audition. It's a really funny shape. It's not going to win any visual contest for sure. I had it plug into Rag first. I had to turn the volume up and the gain switch was set at 3, which is for speakers. Pretty good. However it was when I had it plug into the WA5, that I was swooned by the Abyss. The funny shape was forgotten. It had a nice spread for soundstage and it's unlike anything I have heard.

Next I tried on the Utopia. This is the 2nd time I have tried Utopia. I like it on the Rag but I like it more on the WA5. At the end of the meet, I was pretty sure I prefer the Utopia over the Abyss. However I know this is a very personal preference thing. Both are great headphones IMO. Wish I could audition them on my GOTL now.

That said, I find the HD800 not lacking in anything. On the GOTL, HD800 is as enjoyable as can be. I am also starting to love my 'lowly' LCD-2f with GOTL. The bass weight is another kind of good.


----------



## wazzupi (May 21, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I want to talk about this for a bit. I was at the Sydney local head-fi meet last year. I brought my Yggdrasil and Ragnarok. My friend brought his WA5-le with the glamorous Takasuki 300b tubes. Abyss and Focal Utopia were present.
> 
> I was eager to snap on the Abyss for an audition. It's a really funny shape. It's not going to win any visual contest for sure. I had it plug into Rag first. I had to turn the volume up and the gain switch was set at 3, which is for speakers. Pretty good. However it was when I had it plug into the WA5, that I was swooned by the Abyss. The funny shape was forgotten. It had a nice spread for soundstage and it's unlike anything I have heard.
> 
> ...


My preference from 2018 canjam NYC was hd800>abyss>utopia>hd800s

Unfortunately i heard all of them on a different setup etc...


Ps I hated the diana, abyss, in design and shape and comfort.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I want to talk about this for a bit. I was at the Sydney local head-fi meet last year. I brought my Yggdrasil and Ragnarok. My friend brought his WA5-le with the glamorous Takasuki 300b tubes. Abyss and Focal Utopia were present.
> 
> I was eager to snap on the Abyss for an audition. It's a really funny shape. It's not going to win any visual contest for sure. I had it plug into Rag first. I had to turn the volume up and the gain switch was set at 3, which is for speakers. Pretty good. However it was when I had it plug into the WA5, that I was swooned by the Abyss. The funny shape was forgotten. It had a nice spread for soundstage and it's unlike anything I have heard.
> 
> ...



Ha! if the HD800 had the weight of the bass like the Audeze or ZMF cans...then I could get by with two headphones!


----------



## wazzupi

Soundaware p1 im on the tour right now sounds great with the auteurs makes them plenty dynamic in bass way bigger soundstage vs other SS amps and next level resolving i don't remember liking the rag/yggy as much as im enjoying the sonica/p1 but i did find the yggy to be awesome i still don't know if its worth spending 2500 on vs a cheaper r2r dac.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> My preference from 2018 canjam NYC was hd800>abyss>utopia>hd800s
> 
> Unfortunately i heard all of them on a different setup etc...
> 
> ...



Ha don't get me started on the HD800S. It was the 1st Sydney meet 3 years ago. HD800 and HD800S were there. I was at that time with my newly minted Elise. It got dwarf by Blue Hawaii with Stax SR-009 and 007.

Anyway I started listening to the HD800 on the Woo Wa2 sporting Gec 6as7g. Love it. That's when I know I could love the HD800. Then I tried on the HD800S. The bass became bloated and the treble got muted. Who mess up this headphone? Haha HD800S lovers will hate me for sure. However I then tried HD800S with a leaner and more clinical Audio-Gd top end dac and amp.... and it was good ! 

System matching is important. That said, I still prefer HD800 over HD800S by a mile.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Soundaware p1 im on the tour right now sounds great with the auteurs makes them plenty dynamic in bass way bigger soundstage vs other SS amps and next level resolving i don't remember liking the rag/yggy as much as im enjoying the sonica/p1 but i did find the yggy to be awesome i still don't know if its worth spending 2500 on vs a cheaper r2r dac.



I don't go on the Yggdrasil thread and talk about it non stop but I do like Yggy a lot. Better dacs could be found but 'better' is a definition that varies depending on who says it.  Of course you will probably spend a lot more to beat Yggy and even then it's a matter of interpretations. Yggy's level of details and clarity is incredible to my ears. Once I have this at the input source, I can find my matching amp and headphones.

Joe's HoloSpring level 3 dac is probably on the same level of goodness. I just never get the chance to hear it though.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I sort of feel like I'm at the end of my rope these days when it comes to this hobby.  I was trying to do some listening last night and everything just sounded harsh, edgy and shouty.  Like the treble has this piercing, screechy quality to it.  It's an issue that seems to come and go.  Sometimes it bothers me, and sometimes everything sounds great.  When the issue is there, though, it completely spoils things for me.  I can't concentrate on anything but the harshness.

I've spent every spare dime I've had on this hobby for years. 

Upgrading amps. 

Upgrading DACs. 

Upgrading cables. 

And this problem still will not go away.  My system has thousands of dollars invested in it and I'm haunted by the same problem I had when it was only worth a few hundred.

At this point I feel like there are only two explanations left.  Either the problem lies with me, as in my ears or something biological/psychological.  I have had issues with my ears for years now and have some reason to suspect this may be the difficult truth.  I hope it's not because that would mean the problem is not fixable.  Or, the other explanation would be that I have some kind of noise or interference I have failed to identify and control throughout all of this.

I'm thinking of getting a power conditioner, but this subject is even more crazy than cables.  Nobody seems to agree on anything, it's nearly impossible to know what's good and what opinions to trust or which products are not snake oil.  I keep throwing money at my dissatisfaction and coming up short, and at this point I honestly just don't know what to do anymore.....

I needed to get that off my chest guys.


----------



## Phantaminum

Xcalibur255 said:


> I sort of feel like I'm at the end of my rope these days when it comes to this hobby.  I was trying to do some listening last night and everything just sounded harsh, edgy and shouty.  Like the treble has this piercing, screechy quality to it.  It's an issue that seems to come and go.  Sometimes it bothers me, and sometimes everything sounds great.  When the issue is there, though, it completely spoils things for me.  I can't concentrate on anything but the harshness.
> 
> I've spent every spare dime I've had on this hobby for years.
> 
> ...



Not sure if it'll help but I've been glad with Furman's power conditioner. I didn't get anything fancy but by god it's helped me keep my sanity. The electrical grid at my place has caused blown fuses on my audio equipment several times over. Imagine switching the ceiling fan off and *poof* there goes the amp.

After purchasing the power conditioner I noticed it will click when it receives too much power (or too little) and keep it steady. Haven't had one issue after and its been keeping me happy. On the other hand I can't vouch for changes in sound signature. The higher end models could in theory change the sound sig for the better with its linear power supply.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> I want to talk about this for a bit. I was at the Sydney local head-fi meet last year. I brought my Yggdrasil and Ragnarok. My friend brought his WA5-le with the glamorous Takasuki 300b tubes. Abyss and Focal Utopia were present.
> 
> I was eager to snap on the Abyss for an audition. It's a really funny shape. It's not going to win any visual contest for sure. I had it plug into Rag first. I had to turn the volume up and the gain switch was set at 3, which is for speakers. Pretty good. However it was when I had it plug into the WA5, that I was swooned by the Abyss. The funny shape was forgotten. It had a nice spread for soundstage and it's unlike anything I have heard.
> 
> ...



Hey UT, the thing about the abyss is that you need to first constantly fiddle with it to find the optimum placement. I felt that the bass really changes in relation to how the ears are touching the pads. Sound stage, treble and mids don’t really change much. It sounds complicated but once you get the hang of it, it’s pretty straight forward. And when the stars align, you will start to understand the hype around these oddly shaped headphones. 

I didn’t really like the utopia as I thought it sounded flat, but that was a long time back and the demo was only 10mins. 

This all shows that we listen differently and have different preferences when it comes to sound.


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> I sort of feel like I'm at the end of my rope these days when it comes to this hobby.  I was trying to do some listening last night and everything just sounded harsh, edgy and shouty.  Like the treble has this piercing, screechy quality to it.  It's an issue that seems to come and go.  Sometimes it bothers me, and sometimes everything sounds great.  When the issue is there, though, it completely spoils things for me.  I can't concentrate on anything but the harshness.
> 
> I've spent every spare dime I've had on this hobby for years.
> 
> ...



Does it sound this way with all your amps?
I think power conditioners are a waist of money if there is high frequency getting in through the power line you need a filter.
Cables are another waist never could any cable be picked out in a A-B test.
Maybe a equalizer is needed to cut the treble??


----------



## Monsterzero

Xcalibur255 said:


> 'm thinking of getting a power conditioner, but this subject is even more crazy than cables. Nobody seems to agree on anything, it's nearly impossible to know what's good and what opinions to trust or which products are not snake oil. I keep throwing money at my dissatisfaction and coming up short, and at this point I honestly just don't know what to do anymore.....



I was often in the same situation...One day my system sounded good,the next it sounded dull and uninspiring. I bought a power conditioner and I have yet to have a  "bad day" sound wise since.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Does it sound this way with all your amps?
> I think power conditioners are a waist of money if there is high frequency getting in through the power line you need a filter.
> Cables are another waist never could any cable be picked out in a A-B test.
> Maybe a equalizer is needed to cut the treble??



Yeah, pretty much everything sounds this way to me.  It feels like the more resolution I get, the more glassy it sounds when it get harsh.  

I'm reading up on isolation transformers now since that sounds like it could be a possible solution to high frequency noise.  The ones people recommend that actually work (have low inter-capacitance) are definitely not cheap though so I'm trying to learn more before trying anything.

The thing is, it doesn't sound bright.  The tonal balance is fine.  It just sounds very hard sometimes.

I keep thinking back to how certain notes played on a piano always sounds bad to me.  Doesn't matter what amp or what headphones.  Without fail it sounds cring inducingly bad.  That's why I'm scared that the problem is actually in my ears.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Monsterzero said:


> I was often in the same situation...One day my system sounded good,the next it sounded dull and uninspiring. I bought a power conditioner and I have yet to have a  "bad day" sound wise since.



Hearing things like this helps me figure out which direction to go in.  Thanks.


----------



## Hansotek

Xcalibur255 said:


> Hearing things like this helps me figure out which direction to go in.  Thanks.



Same happened with me. My system would sound harsh and “sour” one day and great the next day. I got a PS Audio Duet power conditioner strip and the problem went away. Now it sounds pretty much the same all the time. The background noise also went way down, making dynamics much more punchy and apparent.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> You're going to have a ball of a time when your OTL arrives. I have heard the Woo WA22 at Addicted To Audio albeit for a short 2 hours audition with probably lack lustre tubes but I have a feel for it's tone signature. Not a bad tone. I was quite pleased with it. This transformer coupled amp has a more precise tone, ala the WA6-se but much better. That said I never like the WA6-se. Definitely different from the WA2 and WA5. I have heard all these Woo amps at some point, including the WA33.
> 
> From recollection the WA22 bass doesn't hit the way it does like the GOTL. For rock, blues and electronica, GOTL will make you cringe for joy. However I'm compartmentalising GOTL because I've also heard Jazz and classical with it and it's smooth as can be. Even Morzart wants one !
> 
> Off course I spelt Mozart wrongly. I sense a defamation lawsuit coming.


Agreed with the WA22. I really like the amp, but the first thing I notice when listening to the Glenn 300B is the improved bass. Then the airiness, then the detail, etc


----------



## leftside

@*Xcalibur255 I had a similar problem. The good news - I eventually cured it. The bad news - it cost me a lot of money. PM me and we can discuss your system and where I think the biggest differences might come from. Obviously I'm going to be biased towards the current components I have, but I like it when people are biased and sing the praises of their equipment. It means they are enjoying their systems - and that's a good thing. Let's see if we can do the same for you.*


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> Yeah, pretty much everything sounds this way to me.  It feels like the more resolution I get, the more glassy it sounds when it get harsh.
> 
> I'm reading up on isolation transformers now since that sounds like it could be a possible solution to high frequency noise.  The ones people recommend that actually work (have low inter-capacitance) are definitely not cheap though so I'm trying to learn more before trying anything.
> 
> ...



I try to listen to as much live music as I can as a way to calibrate what I hear though my system. For example, last Saturday night I went to a Rhiannon Giddens concert and I noticed that her voice sounded the same live as through my headphones. Sometimes I don't like the sound of her voice, it sounds a bit harsh to me, and it was the same live. So I figure it isn't my equipment, its me....


----------



## JazzVinyl

I don't like my Tube Amp to sound like SS,  My least favorite driver in the OTL are the C3g's...for just that reason, sounds too 'SS'.  

I don't roll power tubes in the OTL either, and use 6x 6BL/BX7 exclusively.   
For Driver, the Sylvania 6SN7W is definitely still king.  The Tung Sol 12SN7 BGRP, is my next favorite.

If I had it to do over again, I would forego the C3g sockets and add RCA outs on the back to use the OTL as a 'Tube Buffer' for SS amplified speakers (I can do this now via an adapter cord into the 1/4 inch Headphone out jack, but RCA's on the back would have been far more convenient). 

I am very happy with full wave SS rectification. 

Bear in mind my HP's are High Z and I feel the OTL was the best choice for me.  Very happy with the sound I get from Sophie....

Cheers, all...


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
Remember the straight glass EL3 tube with the Telefunken logo? Was able to obtain a picture of the two letter code in white on the tube base - it really looks like TFK made this tube.







It seems that the first letter is a k; the second is an a.
ka = January 1944. 
Would it be possible that a different manufacturer would use the TFK code?


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> Hey UT, the thing about the abyss is that you need to first constantly fiddle with it to find the optimum placement. I felt that the bass really changes in relation to how the ears are touching the pads. Sound stage, treble and mids don’t really change much. It sounds complicated but once you get the hang of it, it’s pretty straight forward. And when the stars align, you will start to understand the hype around these oddly shaped headphones.
> 
> I didn’t really like the utopia as I thought it sounded flat, but that was a long time back and the demo was only 10mins.
> 
> This all shows that we listen differently and have different preferences when it comes to sound.



I agree. Preference is an individual's sacred rights. I did like what I heard in Abyss but it thrives on power. The Woo Wa5 300b amp drives it quite effortlessly. You got my attention when you said that the EL3N amp drives the Abyss with authority.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Hi Oskari,
> Remember the straight glass EL3 tube with the Telefunken logo? Was able to obtain a picture of the two letter code in white on the tube base - it really looks like TFK made this tube.
> 
> It seems that the first letter is a k; the second is an a.
> ka = January 1944.


Interesting. Thanks! This sounds plausible to me. And we know that they did make the type:


Oskari said:


> It seems that the production numbers for Tfk's tube factories in (West) Berlin and Ulm are actually known. They did make the EL3 in Berlin but only 1937–1947. See _Fertigung der Werke Teil 1_ at:
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/rs15_rs152.html#7





mordy said:


> Would it be possible that a different manufacturer would use the TFK code?


Don't know. Perhaps not.

We do know that later on Tfk used a shorter version of their code on purchased tubes.

Tubes manufactured by Tfk (full code):


Audiofanboy said:


>


Tubes purchased by Tfk (only date code):


Iron58p said:


>


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> I agree. Preference is an individual's sacred rights. I did like what I heard in Abyss but it thrives on power. The Woo Wa5 300b amp drives it quite effortlessly. You got my attention when you said that the EL3N amp drives the Abyss with authority.



Yup, the abyss sounds wonderful out of the EL3N. As for more power, I might spring for a pair of EL6 to up the stakes.


----------



## mordy

Sound Infinity said:


> Yup, the abyss sounds wonderful out of the EL3N. As for more power, I might spring for a pair of EL6 to up the stakes.


Would it be possible to make an adapter German steel base to side contact base ? This would allow tubes such as the EL11 and EL12/EL12 Spez to be used in the place of EL3 tubes. Are the EL11/12 tubes suitable for the EL3N amp?


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Would it be possible to make an adapter German steel base to side contact base ?


Yes.  I give you the EL6E:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el6e.html


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> Yes.  I give you the EL6E:
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el6e.html








The EL6E is just an erzatz EL12N; I want to use the EL12 Spez with 425V plates.....
Made for movie house speaker systems


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> The EL6E is just an erzatz EL12N; I want to use the EL12 Spez


It's an EL12N with an attached P8A base. What you get is an EL6.

An EL12 Spez could be adapted as well but you need the top cap connection.


----------



## UntilThen

I try not to use adapters if I can help it. 

Glenn, would you consider making an amp using EL11 and EL12 or EL12 spez tubes? I still have pairs of Telefunken EL12 and RFT EL12n. I wouldn't even try to suggest how you would implement it. I'm clueless technically. Whether it's EL11 with EL12 or EL12 with EL12 or the spez version. You're the guru. You will know what's best.

The way I hear it with those tubes in Euforia:-
. EL11 and EL12 has a clearer and brighter sound than EL3N. Much better extensions at the top end. EL12 tubes were used in the Siemens Klangfilm amps of long ago.
. 6 x EL3N in Euforia or Elise is warm and lush. Some like it this way. Others thought it's bordering on darkness. EL3N in Glenn's transformer coupled amp will sound different though. It will be leaner and more precise. That's my guess and that's also the kind of sound signature that I prefer. 

The best part of using EL12 is the pins and sockets. These connections are the best I've encountered. It just clicks in with a swiss clock precision. Also EL12 is a powerful tube. The equivalent of EL6.

I think you're also considering experimenting with the new found pentode tube. Let me know how that goes. All these tubes really need to go into an amp specifically designed for it and you would know how to do it.


----------



## UntilThen

It would seem that I'm itching to try another new amp but in reality I'm very very content with my OTL amp. Yggdrasil + GOTL + HD800 is golden to my ears. This is end game for me. 

and the tubes that float my boat now.... cheap Tung Sol 12sl7gt black glass round plates with 6 x GE 6bx7gt. With these grotesque looking adapters of course, for the sake of preserving my amp's sockets.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> It would seem that I'm itching to try another new amp but in reality I'm very very content with my OTL amp. Yggdrasil + GOTL + HD800 is golden to my ears. This is end game for me.
> 
> and the tubes that float my boat now.... cheap Tung Sol 12sl7gt black glass round plates with 6 x GE 6bx7gt. With these grotesque looking adapters of course, for the sake of preserving my amp's sockets.


Hi UT,
You'll get used to the look of the socket adapters. However, some people painted them or shrink wrapped them in black.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I try not to use adapters if I can help it.
> 
> Glenn, would you consider making an amp using EL11 and EL12 or EL12 spez tubes? I still have pairs of Telefunken EL12 and RFT EL12n. I wouldn't even try to suggest how you would implement it. I'm clueless technically. Whether it's EL11 with EL12 or EL12 with EL12 or the spez version. You're the guru. You will know what's best.
> 
> ...



I can do that but it would be a amp with output transformers .  These tubes will sound totally different in a amp properly made for them
then they do in a Euforia.  The EL3N is far from warm and lush in a proper amp. They have a to high impedance to be used for the outputs
in a OTL amp. I know you guys use them but they will only work with high impedance phones and still not drive them properly.
Bottom line none of these tubes will  sound like they do in a Euforia it is not a good example how hey sound.


----------



## UntilThen (May 22, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> I can do that but it would be a amp with output transformers .  These tubes will sound totally different in a amp properly made for them
> then they do in a Euforia.  The EL3N is far from warm and lush in a proper amp. They have a to high impedance to be used for the outputs
> in a OTL amp. I know you guys use them but they will only work with high impedance phones and still not drive them properly.
> *Bottom line none of these tubes will  sound like they do in a Euforia it is not a good example how hey sound.*



I totally agree. That is why I am keen on you building a custom amp for me. That said I'm not dismissing the EL3N amp yet. My toes are in the water already. I have just gotten a Gz34 made in  Sittard Holland and a Cossor 53ku is incoming.

I'm now thinking a EL3N amp with preamp out.... in case I want to feed it to my Redgum amp. I'm quite excited about this idea.

EL3N will always hold some special memories for me. This is the picture of the Mazda EL3N that I first saw.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> I can do that but it would be a amp with output transformers .  These tubes will sound totally different in a amp properly made for them
> then they do in a Euforia.  The EL3N is far from warm and lush in a proper amp. They have a to high impedance to be used for the outputs
> in a OTL amp. I know you guys use them but they will only work with high impedance phones and still not drive them properly.
> Bottom line none of these tubes will  sound like they do in a Euforia it is not a good example how hey sound.


Hi 2359glenn,

Thanks for clarifying this.


----------



## UntilThen

I am going to mull over this today Glenn but the thought of using EL12 with Lundahl transformers and tube rectificaton is very appealing.

I.e with EL12 and equivalents instead of EL3N.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I am going to mull over this today Glenn but the thought of using EL12 with Lundahl transformers and tube rectificaton is very appealing.
> 
> I.e with EL12 and equivalents instead of EL3N.


Hi UT,
If you are going this route I think you are better off focusing on the EL12 Spez because the EL12 tubes (not EL12N) were very temperamental.


----------



## UntilThen

You are correct Mordy. It's not call EL12 Spez (for special) for nothing.

However if the amp is design around the EL12 then I could use EL11 EL12 EL12n and EL12 spez.


----------



## Sound Trooper (May 22, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I am going to mull over this today Glenn but the thought of using EL12 with Lundahl transformers and tube rectificaton is very appealing.
> 
> I.e with EL12 and equivalents instead of EL3N.



Sounds like a killer project UT, can't wait to see the end result.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I am going to mull over this today Glenn but the thought of using EL12 with Lundahl transformers and tube rectificaton is very appealing.
> 
> I.e with EL12 and equivalents instead of EL3N.



No problem I can build you anything you want. Think about it.


----------



## UntilThen (May 22, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> No problem I can build you anything you want. Think about it.



It's not a question of what I want. If you think it's not going to work, I want you to stop me in my tracks. 

However it does seem a very good idea. EL11 is the successor to EL3N. They are not that much different except tonally. On the other hand EL12 is twice the power of EL11.

These tubes are superbly constructed though and Telefunken quality. They are not that widely available. The EL12N is cheap.

I'm going ahead with this. Just the amp, no preamp, no speakers out. Just Russian caps. Lundahl transformers. 5 volt rectifier ala the GEL3N.

One other thing. The EL12 spez has a top cap. Will an adapter be required? Will need you to make them.

I already have one pair of EL12 and one pair of EL12N. I will get another pair of EL12 spez and send them to you. So you have the tubes to test the finished product.

Will pm you on down payment and cost.

Thanks Glenn.

As always very appreciative of your work.

UT


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> Sounds like a killer project UT, can't wait to see the end result.



It will either be a killer project or it will kill me.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> It's not a question of what I want. If you think it's not going to work, I want you to stop me in my tracks.
> 
> However it does seem a very good idea. EL11 is the successor to EL3N. They are not that much different except tonally. On the other hand EL12 is twice the power of EL11.
> 
> ...


EL11  0.9A
EL12  1.2A
(EL32  0.2A)


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> It will either be a killer project or it will kill me.



I have just pulled the trigger on a pair of EL6.


----------



## leftside

Finally managed to find another set of genuine WE 421A from the same era. This time from 1981. The other two are from 1985.

How do I know they are genuine WE421A and not rebranded TungSol? 1) The construction is completely different. Check out the clear top and bottom getters. 2) I believe TungSol no longer existed as a company in 1981.

Also check out the photo with the 3 TungSols. The top right is labelled WE421A, but I believe this one is actually a rebranded TungSol as the construction is exactly the same as TungSol next to it. They both have an extra piece of metal like a hook. Just for completeness I've included another TungSol without this extra piece of metal/hook. I have a bunch of other TungSols and I'll have to check those.

How do they sound? WE 421A all the way. Extra bass. Will report more when I get the GOTL. Going to be awesome running 4 of these babies.


----------



## 2359glenn (May 23, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> It's not a question of what I want. If you think it's not going to work, I want you to stop me in my tracks.
> 
> However it does seem a very good idea. EL11 is the successor to EL3N. They are not that much different except tonally. On the other hand EL12 is twice the power of EL11.
> 
> ...



I will build a amp specially made for these tubes. Only thing I have no idea how these tubes sound.
Suppose they will sound very good. Got to figure what transformers to use and what driver to use?
6SN7 EL3N C3g ???   You pick.


----------



## UntilThen

I was thinking EL11 as drivers and EL12 spez as power tubes. So it's all the same type of click sockets.

If you could make it such that I can use EL11, EL12, EL12n and EL12 spez as both drivers and power tubes, that would be preferable. I can swap those tubes around.

So I could perhaps use EL12 spez as drivers and EL12 spez as power tubes. So EL12 spez driving EL12 spez. Doable?


----------



## UntilThen

Push pull EL12 tube amp.


----------



## UntilThen (May 23, 2018)

This guy rolling EL12 spez and he's using E80cc as drivers.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ele...eaker-amp-review.722633/page-50#post-13518614


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I was thinking EL11 as drivers and EL12 spez as power tubes. So it's all the same type of click sockets.
> 
> If you could make it such that I can use EL11, EL12, EL12n and EL12 spez as both drivers and power tubes, that would be preferable. I can swap those tubes around.
> 
> So I could perhaps use EL12 spez as drivers and EL12 spez as power tubes. So EL12 spez driving EL12 spez. Doable?



Have to think about this will let you know.


----------



## UntilThen

Sure no rush but I'm excited with the idea. These EL11, EL12 and EL12 spez tubes are well like amongst Klangfilm amp fans and they are discussed in the review 33 forum.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Sure no rush but I'm excited with the idea. These EL11, EL12 and EL12 spez tubes are well like amongst Klangfilm amp fans and they are discussed in the review 33 forum.



Have to leave for work now will get back to you later.


----------



## UntilThen

EL11 amp


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Have to leave for work now will get back to you later.



Sure have a good day.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Infinity said:


> Sounds like a killer project UT, can't wait to see the end result.



Yeah, great project for Glenn.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Will report more when I get the GOTL. Going to be awesome running 4 of these babies.



Man running 4 WE421A is the killa. I thought running Gec 6080 and Gec 6as7g together is bad enough.

You are really going to have a blast of a time with your GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

Back when I was running EL11 and EL12 in Elise. In an amp designed for these tubes, I think it will sound really good.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Back when I was running EL11 and EL12 in Elise. In an amp designed for these tubes, I think it will sound really good.




Glenn can transform that sound for you.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Glenn can transform that sound for you.



I'm very confident he can. That's why I'm very excited. Simply because I have tasted the GOTL. Going by this alone I know there's better things to come. Someday I'll have to do a review of GOTL on Head-Fi. I need the inspiration to write and describe what I hear because I can't get enough of this tone. It's musical. It's rich, it's sweet, it resolves with finesse. It takes what Yggdrasil dish out and turns it into a heavenly voice. It elevates my HD800 to where it should have been.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Back when I was running EL11 and EL12 in Elise. In an amp designed for these tubes, I think it will sound really good.



I guess I can use these Yamamoto sockets.  Don't really want to use cheep sockets from China.  Jacmusic part # 320-041-28
http://www.jacmusic.com/


----------



## UntilThen

Excellent. Love Yamamoto sockets.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> I guess I can use these Yamamoto sockets.  Don't really want to use cheep sockets from China.  Jacmusic part # 320-041-28
> http://www.jacmusic.com/


With all due respect, even though I am sure the Yamamoto sockets are superior, the construction of the German steel sockets is such that even less expensive sockets make a very good positive contact. 
The tubes go in easily with a reassuring click, and they are easy to remove (something that you cannot say about the Chinese side contact sockets which can be extremely frustrating).




The bottom of the tube pin is tapered for easy insertion, and then there is a concave area that clicks into what I assume is a spring loaded socket.


----------



## UntilThen

They are the best contact pins but in a project like this I'll gladly use Yamamoto's gold version sockets. After all you're already using quality Lundahl's transformers so why use a few dollars chinese sockets. 

I've been looking at that rare 1951 Tesla EL12 spez too. Telefunken introduce the EL12 spez in 1938 but the tubes that I have still look so new. 8 pins. 5 at the top 3 at the bottom. Pincer like grip.


----------



## 2359glenn

I looked at the EL11 and the specs are close to a EL3N so the first stage will be the same as the EL3N amp.
I have to look at the EL12spez and see if it is the same as a EL12 except for the anode cap.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes EL11 is identical to EL3N except for base. Will I be able to use EL12, EL12N and EL12 spez on the first stage too? Or you think that's not a good idea.

I think EL12, EL12N and EL12 spez are similar in specs.

Didn't know that Langrex is selling EL12N at 15 pounds each NOS. 
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/el12n-rsd-nos-valvetube/


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Didn't know that Langrex is selling EL12N at 15 pounds each NOS.
> https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/el12n-rsd-nos-valvetube/


BTB (https://www.btb-elektronik.de) has them for about half that (but with potentially higher shipping cost).


----------



## mordy (May 23, 2018)

Oskari said:


> BTB (https://www.btb-elektronik.de) has them for about half that (but with potentially higher shipping cost).


When buying tubes from Germany, insist on Deutche Bundespost (German Post Office) instead of DHL or similar. The rates of the German Post Office are among the very lowest in Europe, so much so that some European sellers will cross the border to ship.

BTW, btb-elektronik has an EL6 tube with an anode cap (think EL12 Spez) - the EL54.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> They are the best contact pins but in a project like this I'll gladly use Yamamoto's gold version sockets. After all you're already using quality Lundahl's transformers so why use a few dollars chinese sockets.
> 
> I've been looking at that rare 1951 Tesla EL12 spez too. Telefunken introduce the EL12 spez in 1938 but the tubes that I have still look so new. 8 pins. 5 at the top 3 at the bottom. Pincer like grip.



I like your thinking here, not going to be as many sockets as OTL amp...so grab some primo sockets.


----------



## 2359glenn

The EL12SPEZ has the G2 were the anode is on the EL12. This creates a problem I use grid stopper resistors. Guess I
can just hook the two pins together but this can cause osculation and crazy stuff that happens with these tubes like
What happens in the FA amps.


----------



## UntilThen

No problem. I'll forget about EL12 spez. I'll just use EL12 or EL12N.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> BTB (https://www.btb-elektronik.de) has them for about half that (but with potentially higher shipping cost).



Thanks Oskari. Good to know there's supplies around. I actually quite like the cheaper EL12N too.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> No problem. I'll forget about EL12 spez. I'll just use EL12 or EL12N.



Good I don't have to put on plug in anode leads.


----------



## UntilThen (May 23, 2018)

So can I use EL12 in the first stage?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> So can I use EL12 in the first stage?



You can try it same pin out and see how it sounds.


----------



## UntilThen

Cool but I will essentially be using EL11 in the 1st stage and EL12 in the 2nd stage.

That's the plan.


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes I have to look up the transformers and get prices. I think it will be a little more then the EL3N amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok no worries.


----------



## UntilThen

All pistons fired up and ready. I have:-

Philips Miniwatt EL11 - 1 pair
Telefunken EL11 - 1 pair
Telefunken EL12
Siemens EL12 (identical looking as the Telefunken.)
RSD EL12n - 1 pair

Should last me a lifetime.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> All pistons fired up and ready. I have:-
> 
> Philips Miniwatt EL11 - 1 pair
> Telefunken EL11 - 1 pair
> ...



Nice project, UT. Looking forward to the future review and pics!


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Nice project, UT. Looking forward to the future review and pics!



I'm quite amazed at the change of events because I was going to get the same amp as you, right down to the same caps.

This is not going to be that much different from the EL3N amp. You could say they are close cousins except maybe Glenn is getting different transformers to accomodate the more powerful EL12.

EL3N from Holland. EL11 / 12 from Germany. Interesting variations.

Socket wise both using Yamamotos so both should be equally good.


----------



## 2359glenn

This amp will use the same transformers as the 300B that are really the same as the EL3N except for the primary impedance.
the power transformer has to be different then the EL3N because the EL12 draw more current. 
Power will be the same transformer as the OTL I think right now.
Output power will be 8 watts the same as the 300B.  With much cheaper tubes. I like that!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Drool. You are getting me excited now.


----------



## UntilThen

Nice looking Telefunken EL11, EL12 and EL12n.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> This amp will use the same transformers as the 300B that are really the same as the EL3N except for the primary impedance.
> the power transformer has to be different then the EL3N because the EL12 draw more current.
> Power will be the same transformer as the OTL I think right now.
> Output power will be 8 watts the same as the 300B.  With much cheaper tubes. I like that!!!!!



Yeah absolutely, much cheaper tubes than 300B.
Great project indeed.

This should be good at powering speakers also with the 8 watt output.


----------



## Contrails (May 24, 2018)

Glen, would it be beneficial to house the PSU in a separate chassis?  Interested in the EL12n amp.

Edit: what the benefit of having interstage transformers over caps?


----------



## UntilThen

I would want to run quad EL12n. Glenn make sure the transformer can handle 4 of these brutes.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I would want to run quad EL12n. Glenn make sure the transformer can handle 4 of these brutes.



I just hope these tubes sound as sweet as the EL3N.
The filament power supply can easily handle two EL12s per side.
Maybe I will have to change the driver stage. It is specific to the EL3N so I figured it would work fine with the EL11.
Has a SS constant current source on the plate maybe change this to a resistor if you want to use EL12 for a driver.
I think it will be better to use a EL11 but what do I know. I have no experience with these tubes.
UT you said you were going to send me some tubes to try the amp send four EL12s so I can try them as drivers.
And change the driver circuit if need be.


----------



## 2359glenn

Contrails said:


> Glen, would it be beneficial to house the PSU in a separate chassis?  Interested in the EL12n amp.
> 
> Edit: what the benefit of having interstage transformers over caps?



I can do a separate power supply but it will add at least $500 to the price of the amp maybe a little more then that.
people say IT's sound better then caps but the downside is they like to pick up hum from the power transformer.
The separate power supply is almost necessary and it be kept away from the amp.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I just hope these tubes sound as sweet as the EL3N.
> The filament power supply can easily handle two EL12s per side.
> Maybe I will have to change the driver stage. It is specific to the EL3N so I figured it would work fine with the EL11.
> Has a SS constant current source on the plate maybe change this to a resistor if you want to use EL12 for a driver.
> ...



EL11 and EL12 has better treble extension and clarity than EL3N. Well that's what I heard of those tubes in Elise but as you said, it's probably not the best way to evaluate those tubes in an amp not design for it. Suffice to say that EL11 will be just as sweet as EL3N if not more.

Here I feel Gibosi has a point. Telefunken tubes have a house sound. These tubes are brighter and clearer at the top end while maintaining a very nice mid and bass. I'm confident enough to make this move.

I've just bought another pair of RFT EL11 NOS tubes. That means I have 3 pairs of new EL11s. Should be enough for my needs. The reason I wanted to try quad EL12n is because EL12n are cheaper and more readily available. If subsequently, there are others who would want you to make this amp, there would be tubes available for it.

So.... I will send you four EL12 (2 EL12 and 2 EL12n) and a pair of EL11. That way you can test :-

. 2 x EL11  and  2 x EL12
. 2 x EL12n and 2 x EL12

Can you please check EL12n. I think the voltage is higher than EL12 which is 250v.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I'm quite amazed at the change of events because I was going to get the same amp as you, right down to the same caps.
> 
> This is not going to be that much different from the EL3N amp. You could say they are close cousins except maybe Glenn is getting different transformers to accomodate the more powerful EL12.
> 
> ...



By spec sheet and label, seems like more than one manufacturer for E11/12.
Different manufacturers or just rebrand? Nice if you can mix/match mfrs for sound.

Never before, until now.... UntilNow! 
I think you and Glenn are onto something here. Good things coming. : )


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> By spec sheet and label, seems like more than one manufacturer for E11/12.
> Different manufacturers or just rebrand? Nice if you can mix/match mfrs for sound.



As to who made these tubes, I would have to defer to those with more tube knowledge such as @gibosi and @Oskari .

There are quite a few brands such as Telefunkens, Siemens, RFT, Tesla, Tungsram, Philips Miniwatts, Valvo. I suspect they all originated from Germany.

There are 2 shapes of EL11. One is the bulbous shape and the other a slimmer shape. These shape applies to EL12 too.

Just bought a pair of these slimmer shape RFT EL11



I also bought a pair of these fat boy Philips Miniwatt EL11


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> I think you and Glenn are onto something here. Good things coming. : )



It's all Glenn's show. I'm just watching and waiting for the result. 

I feel very privileged that I have a master tube amp designer stepping me through his ideas in almost real time. Priceless.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> EL11 and EL12 has better treble extension and clarity than EL3N. Well that's what I heard of those tubes in Elise but as you said, it's probably not the best way to evaluate those tubes in an amp not design for it. Suffice to say that EL11 will be just as sweet as EL3N if not more.



No doubt that Glenn will draw the best sound from the EL11/12. 
As he has with the EL3N. Have been listening to these in the GOTL recently, via the 2fer adapter, with 6BX7.
Amazing slam, gorgeous mids, sweet extended top end. And outstanding micro detail/dynamics.
Hits a sweet spot, or the bullseye, between ECC31 and C3g... and then some.
Glenn will make it happen.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn the EL tubes are enroute to me from Ukraine and Belgium. Might take a few weeks. Once I get it I will send it to you. Presently I only have 1 pair of EL12 and 1 pair of EL12n.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn the EL tubes are enroute to me from Ukraine and Belgium. Might take a few weeks. Once I get it I will send it to you. Presently I only have 1 pair of EL12 and 1 pair of EL12n.



I am wondering if the EL34 sounds similar to the EL12 they are plentiful and use a octal socket. Specs are not that different from a EL12spez.
I don't think I would try the new production but plenty of NOS EL34 and 6CA7s out there.


----------



## UntilThen

Here's someone's take on EL12n vs EL34.

_There are many versions of EL12. Most of them will not work in EL34 or KT66 tube amp as the operating voltage exceed the design max rating for the EL12 (250-375V only). But the EL12N is the exception as it was designed to take max 425V.

The EL12N has different bias character compare to EL34 but it should bias correctly in most EL34 tube amp using self-bias circuit. And more importantly is that it sounds at least as good as Gold Lion KT77 and "Tall Feet Seven" EL34 and better than most other RR grade EL34._

Source - https://m.review33.com/forum_msg.php?db=1&topic=69040508132922&start=190&sort=


----------



## UntilThen

I would still like to progress with EL11 and EL12 configuration. Kind of like how those tubes look together plus I have a hunch - great sound.

I'm sure EL34 will sound great too but that is really stepping up into higher power territory. Blue Hawaii uses 4 EL34s. I am sure it will sound good. Perhaps someone will come along later and ask you to make them a EL34 amp.


----------



## UntilThen

If you believe them...... 

_Once you hear F2a11 and EL12, it is very very hard to get back to EL34/KT66._


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> If you believe them......
> 
> _Once you hear F2a11 and EL12, it is very very hard to get back to EL34/KT66._


Hi UT,
There are straight glass tubular EL11 tubes as well from Telefunken - the ones I have did not sound as good as the ST types.
Re the EL12N my impression is that regardless of brand they were all made by RFT.
The EL12 comes in 250V, 325V, 375V and 425V versions - don't  know what this means.


----------



## jekjek

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> There are straight glass tubular EL11 tubes as well from Telefunken - the ones I have did not sound as good as the ST types.
> Re the EL12N my impression is that regardless of brand they were all made by RFT.
> The EL12 comes in 250V, 325V, 375V and 425V versions - don't  know what this means.



I have the straight bottle one too
so it sounds no good?


----------



## mordy

Coming back to earth from EL skies are the limit lol:
Is this the real thing?









It sold to someone for $57 incl shipping.
In looking for Sylvania 6SN7W or 6SN7A tubes, which version(s) are supposed to the best sounding? Black base, metal base, short tube, tall tube etc?


----------



## mordy (May 24, 2018)

jekjek said:


> I have the straight bottle one too
> so it sounds no good?


Hi jj,
I would not say that they do not sound good, just that I like the ST shape sound better. On the other hand what I have are used tubes, and I did not evaluate them extensively.
Will give them a listen again.....
BTW, German eBay is a good source for EL11 TFK tubes.


----------



## lukeap69

If UT's EL


2359glenn said:


> This amp will use the same transformers as the 300B that are really the same as the EL3N except for the primary impedance.
> the power transformer has to be different then the EL3N because the EL12 draw more current.
> Power will be the same transformer as the OTL I think right now.
> Output power will be 8 watts the same as the 300B.  With much cheaper tubes. I like that!!!!!


Glenn

Does that mean this amp can power speakers with ease compared to GEL3N amp? This certainly gets my attention...


----------



## 2359glenn

I am thinking about converting my 300B speaker amps to EL34. But now I am thinking about the EL12N or EL12spez.
The B+ is 425 volts. Don't know if I want this crazy socket though guess I gone there with the EL3N.
The amp has 4 pin Amphenol sockets and the beauty of them they all mount in the same size hole 4 pin 5pin 6 pin 7 pin
8 pin 9pin mini and 7pin mini can all use the same chassis knockout hole.  Don't know if I want to change this


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> There are straight glass tubular EL11 tubes as well from Telefunken - the ones I have did not sound as good as the ST types.
> Re the EL12N my impression is that regardless of brand they were all made by RFT.
> The EL12 comes in 250V, 325V, 375V and 425V versions - don't  know what this means.



Pure speculation on my part....  After the war, RFT took possession of the Telefunken factory at Neuhaus and perhaps others as well. So it is possible that the RFT tubes were actually manufactured using Telefunken assembly line equipment. But again, I am just guessing...


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Coming back to earth from EL skies are the limit lol:
> Is this the real thing?
> 
> 
> ...



Yes it is the real thing. And in the recent past, it has not been uncommon for these to go for $50 or so. In my opinion, all of them sound so similar that I don't feel that one sounds better than the others. But I will defer to others with better ears and gear.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> Pure speculation on my part....  After the war, RFT took possession of the Telefunken factory at Neuhaus and perhaps others as well. So it is possible that the RFT tubes were actually manufactured using Telefunken assembly line equipment. But again, I am just guessing...


Yes, Erfurt as well. It is possible that the equipment took a one-way trip to the USSR. The knowledge survived, at least.


----------



## UntilThen (May 24, 2018)

I am just super excited at the prospect of using a warm sounding rectifier like the Cossor 53ku with the superb tubes of Telefunken EL11 and EL12. I think this will sound really good.

... not forgetting the Lundahl transformers. I have not heard Glenn's transformer coupled amp yet.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> I am thinking about converting my 300B speaker amps to EL34. But now I am thinking about the EL12N or EL12spez.
> The B+ is 425 volts. Don't know if I want this crazy socket though guess I gone there with the EL3N.
> The amp has 4 pin Amphenol sockets and the beauty of them they all mount in the same size hole 4 pin 5pin 6 pin 7 pin
> 8 pin 9pin mini and 7pin mini can all use the same chassis knockout hole.  Don't know if I want to change this



Hi Glenn.

When I pioneered the EL12 in Feliks-Audio's 'Euforia', I - and others - found the EL12 Spezial a good bit better performer than the 'ordinary' 12, and certainly than the (much cheaper!) EL12N..."you pays your money and takes your choice" lol! But it does indeed have the 'German Steel' base...much superior IMHO to the EL3N one!
You were also interested in the EL32/CV1052/VT52 (not the 4 -pin, direct-heated VT-52!). I'm glad to report that they perform incredibly well, both as driver and power...with less output than the EL11 and EL12 however. My ST-shape British military CV1052 are now not so easy to find, alas, but experiments are ongoing with the more available - and much cheaper - later straight-glass version. Both take the 8-pin octal socket...I don't envy you your choices lol!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Coming back to earth from EL skies are the limit lol:
> Is this the real thing?
> It sold to someone for $57 incl shipping.
> In looking for Sylvania 6SN7W or 6SN7A tubes, which version(s) are supposed to the best sounding? Black base, metal base, short tube, tall tube etc?



Yes, looks good.  Go for 6SN7W any flavor of tall/short/metal/plain base...all sound better than any 6SN7W you ever heard.  

Price for this one good, too...imho.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Colin (@hypnos1), great to hear from you here. Your pioneering of these tubes in Elise and Euforia has certainly produce some amazing amps under Glenn's magical touch. We need a master tube amp designer with these lovely sounding EL tubes.

Glenn's OTL amp which I now have for 6 months, have certainly sounded amazing. The voicing is superb. The best I have heard so far. If this is an indication of what's to come then I'm certainly looking forward to Glenn making a specialised EL11 / EL12 amp for me.


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Hi Colin (@hypnos1), great to hear from you here. Your pioneering of these tubes in Elise and Euforia has certainly produce some amazing amps under Glenn's magical touch. We need a master tube amp designer with these lovely sounding EL tubes.
> 
> Glenn's OTL amp which I now have for 6 months, have certainly sounded amazing. The voicing is superb. The best I have heard so far. If this is an indication of what's to come then I'm certainly looking forward to Glenn making a specialised EL11 / EL12 amp for me.



Hi to you too, UT.

These EL tubes certainly do have a magical quality...I've been in love with them (as you well know!) ever since you saw the 'pretty' red skirt of the EL3N and I was tempted to try them in Elise. If Glenn does indeed make an amp based on the EL11/12, I do hope he goes for the EL12 Spezial - it may be more expensive and harder to find, but it really is much better than the EL12N lol!.. GOOD LUCK!...


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, looks good.  Go for 6SN7W any flavor of tall/short/metal/plain base...all sound better than any 6SN7W you ever heard.
> 
> Price for this one good, too...imho.



Both the short bottle with black base and the metal base 6sn7w are good. I have both but it's hard to do a proper evaluation because my metal base is brand new and super quiet. It is just amazing in it's tone. My used pair of short back base 6sn7w on the other hand, has a bit of hum but nevertheless sound superb with or without hum.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi to you too, UT.
> 
> These EL tubes certainly do have a magical quality...I've been in love with them (as you well know!) ever since you saw the 'pretty' red skirt of the EL3N and I was tempted to try them in Elise. If Glenn does indeed make an amp based on the EL11/12, I do hope he goes for the EL12 Spezial - it may be more expensive and harder to find, but it really is much better than the EL12N lol!.. GOOD LUCK!...



I was in discussion with Glenn about using the EL12 spez but it seems the top anode cap might be a hassle to tame with oscillation and possible hum. Given that this will be transformer coupled with quality Lundahl, I'm quite happy to roll with Telefunken EL11 and EL12. My EL12n will provide as backup and who knows might even sound just as good in this custom designed amp.

Yeah I would never have imagine that my head-fi audio journey have come this far. It's certainly a long way since the days of Darkvoice 336se. Of course that pretty red skirt EL3N tube set me off on more tubes and amps buying. It's an incredible journey though meeting and talking to specialist tube amp manufacturers and designers. Not so incredible for my wallet though.


----------



## 2359glenn

No problem taming the tube but might be if you want to switch between the EL12spez and the EL12 it would have to be one or the  other.
I am thinking about using the EL12spez driven by a EL3N or Philips EL11. That should sound the same as there EL3N. I like the sound
of the EL3N.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> As to who made these tubes, I would have to defer to those with more tube knowledge such as @gibosi and @Oskari .
> 
> There are quite a few brands such as Telefunkens, Siemens, RFT, Tesla, Tungsram, Philips Miniwatts, Valvo. I suspect they all originated from Germany.


There are obvious reasons why the base type is called _German Steel_... Telefunken and RFT certainly made them. Let's look at some of the other makers (German unless mentioned otherwise) that I think I can identify. No claims about exhaustiveness.

*EL11 types*

Loewe-Opta
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111634802501

Tungsram (Hungary)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183149386192
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253338668870

Valvo
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352356538378

WIRAG (Austria)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372290505078
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183149392398
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292556436108

*EL12 types*

Loewe-Opta
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/855328603-172-2127

Tesla (Czechoslovakia)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161851511747

Tungsram (Hungary)
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/550782635-172-2033
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123107676570

Valvo
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132591179398
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222400047001


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> No problem taming the tube but might be if you want to switch between the EL12spez and the EL12 it would have to be one or the  other.
> I am thinking about using the EL12spez driven by a EL3N or Philips EL11. That should sound the same as there EL3N. I like the sound
> of the EL3N.



Alrighty. Let me think about this. I might go with EL11 and EL12spez.


----------



## UntilThen

I bought 6 beautiful pristine looking NOS NIB EL11 so instinctively I've chosen my drivers. No need to make EL12 work as drivers.

It's just the power tubes that I've to decide whether to use EL12 or EL12spez.


----------



## 2359glenn (May 24, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I bought 6 beautiful pristine looking NOS NIB EL11 so instinctively I've chosen my drivers. No need to make EL12 work as drivers.
> 
> It's just the power tubes that I've to decide whether to use EL12 or EL12spez.



Cool I can run at 425 volts then and use the transformer I use for the 300B.
Higher voltage= more power 11 watts


----------



## UntilThen

As with all hard decisions in life, I toss a coin.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Cool I can run at 425 volts then and use the transformer I use for the 300B.
> Higher voltage= more power



I like that !!!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Cool I can run at 425 volts then and use the transformer I use for the 300B.
> Higher voltage= more power 11 watts



11 watts !!! I may have to consider speakers out now.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari you are tempting me to buy more tubes from that list.

What I need is a pair of pristine NOS NIB EL12 spez now preferably Telefunken.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT and Glenn,
I do not have the EL12 Spez (yet) but from what I read from people who have them, they sound better than the EL12 and EL12N.
Just out of curiosity - what kind of speaker sensitivity would go with 11W?
Plenty of TFK EL12 Spez available, but I don't know which ones are 425V:
https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Telefunken+EL12+Spezial&_sacat=0&_sop=15


----------



## leftside

Anyone considered asking Glenn to build them an EL34 headphone amp? These are some of my favorite tubes - especially the GECs. This wouldn't be for me, as I'm also quite fond of the 300B's, but was just wondering.

Another of my favorite power tubes are KT88's and 6550's. 

Interested to see how this EL12/EL12N amp turns out. Normally when people get a new amp they say it "blows away" the old one, but I just call this the "new girlfriend syndrome" and wait to see if they still feel the same way 6 months later.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT and Glenn,
> I do not have the EL12 Spez (yet) but from what I read from people who have them, they sound better than the EL12 and EL12N.
> Just out of curiosity - what kind of speaker sensitivity would go with 11W?
> Plenty of TFK EL12 Spez available, but I don't know which ones are 425V:
> https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Telefunken+EL12+Spezial&_sacat=0&_sop=15



At the review 33 forum, they also praise the EL12 spez, saying it's the best of the EL12.

11 watts is nothing if you're used to 100+ watts integrated amps but it is certainly more than the GEL3N output.

I am going with EL11 and EL12 spez Glenn. Let me know if you're ok to work with EL12 spez before I commit to buying the tubes.

EL34 is not for me. If I wanted that I would have kept the Primaluna Dialogue Premiun HP that runs 8 x EL34 or 8 x KT88, 120, 150.

This will be headphone amp first and foremost. I expect it to be sweet just like the EL3N amp and I'm confident Glenn will create another wonderful sounding amp out of this.


----------



## UntilThen (May 25, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> I am thinking about converting my 300B speaker amps to EL34. But now I am thinking about the EL12N or EL12spez.



You're thinking right Glenn. The EL12 family are vintage tubes but I'm amazed at how new my 1950s Telefunken EL12 looks. It has preserved so well. Even the lettering is perfect.

Turn your stereo tube amp into the glory days of the Siemens Klangfilm amps that uses the the EL12 tubes.... and show us your creation.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Plenty of TFK EL12 Spez available, but I don't know which ones are 425V


They all are.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> 11 watts !!! I may have to consider speakers out now.



Yep...you should.


----------



## UntilThen (May 25, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> Yep...you should.



You are my adviser. I shall listen to you. So it will be a big black chassis like @Sound Infinity 's amp, with speakers output.

I bet it could drive my Whaferdale Diamond 10.1


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> You are my adviser. I shall listen to you. So it will be a big black chassis like @Sound Infinity 's amp, with speakers output.
> 
> I bet it could drive my Whaferdale Diamond 10.1




Ha, probably not a good idea to have me as an adviser....you should use Glenn for that.

I was just thinking that since you also listen to speakers and the amp having 11 watts, that this would be beneficial.
This amp should provide big sound without having to use 300B tubes.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> No problem taming the tube but might be if you want to switch between the EL12spez and the EL12 it would have to be one or the  other.
> I am thinking about using the EL12spez driven by a EL3N or Philips EL11. That should sound the same as there EL3N. I like the sound
> of the EL3N.



Hi Glenn.

You shouldn't indeed have any problem 'taming' the EL12 Spezial. I myself have adapted quite a few to work in a 6AS7G socket, and I've only ever used a single solid silver wire inside teflon tubing as anode (and no covering 'shield' wire)...with never any hint whatsoever of hum (or other noise!). I do believe it was therefore the Chinese adapters that in fact were the culprit for other folks lol!...remedied by use of a ferrite choke on said anode wire. And it certainly is better than either the 'ordinary' EL12 and definitely the EL12N...CJ


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Ha, probably not a good idea to have me as an adviser....you should use Glenn for that.
> 
> I was just thinking that since you also listen to speakers and the amp having 11 watts, that this would be beneficial.
> This amp should provide big sound without having to use 300B tubes.



Every amp that you get Glenn to make for you, is individually crafted to your request. Of course if you are not technically inclined, just take his advice. The OTL amp that I get is so beautifully crafted. It will stay with me forever. Sounds so good. I listen to it everyday !!

11 watts will drive any difficult to drive headphones and efficient speakers very well. Many have use 8 watts 300b amps driving efficient speakers with great results. Looking forward to how this is going to end up.


----------



## UntilThen (May 25, 2018)

I have a pair of NOS NIB Ultron EL6 for sale at 20% off, of what I paid for. Haven't even received it yet. Not going to use these now. If you have EL3N amp and want to have a go at these, PM me.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> You are my adviser. I shall listen to you. So it will be a big black chassis like @Sound Infinity 's amp, with speakers output.
> 
> I bet it could drive my Whaferdale Diamond 10.1



It will have the large chassis as it will have the 300B power transformer a bit larger and will not be able to use the small chassis.
Not sure if it will drive a Whaferdale speaker. Two in push pull at 47 watts would easily drive them.
Normally I like the sound of SE triode over push pull especially for headphones.


----------



## UntilThen (May 25, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> It will have the large chassis as it will have the 300B power transformer a bit larger and will not be able to use the small chassis.
> Not sure if it will drive a Whaferdale speaker. Two in push pull at 47 watts would easily drive them.
> Normally I like the sound of SE triode over push pull especially for headphones.



Superb Glenn. Love the large black big chassis. Driving speakers is secondary but I might just have it for fun experimentation and driving efficient speakers. Guess I will sell the inefficient Voicebox.

So are we ok with using EL12 spez as power tubes. If so let me know so I can buy a nice juicy pair for a start.

I agree I like SE triode and won't want push pull.


----------



## 2359glenn

The 20 pole Gold Point switch I use to switch to 8 ohm is almost $400 a lot to experiment a little.


----------



## 2359glenn

OK EL12spez it is go get them.
EL11 driver I will use a CCS for the plate load.  I know the horror SS in a tube amp but it sounds good.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The 20 pole Gold Point switch I use to switch to 8 ohm is almost $400 a lot to experiment a little.



You're the best advisor and you are absolutely right. I will end up not using the speakers output as I already have a beefy 165 watts Redgum.

So forget the speakers output.


----------



## 2359glenn

OK EL11 driving a EL12spez headphone only.
You know it will be August before I can build this.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> OK EL11 driving a EL12spez headphone only.
> You know it will be August before I can build this.



Superb. I might even be able to drive the HE-6 now and should be no problem for the Abyss.

And I am in absolutely no hurry to get this amp because the OTL is keeping me crazily happy. Last Christmas it was the OTL and this Christmas it will be the EL12 amp. What more can a man ask? I will go on the holiday in August to Taiwan and listen to Sam's amp in Singapore.


----------



## UntilThen

Tubes purchased and the seller even accepted my offer. NOS brand new ex military stock from a big ebay seller. I must be the only person wanting these tubes now. 
I'll send the EL11 and EL12 spez tubes to you Glenn, sometime in July.


 

This tube data make any sense?


----------



## UntilThen

Maybe I should get a pair of Tesla EL12 spez just to see if they sound different. What do you think @Oskari ?


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Maybe I should get a pair of Tesla EL12 spez just to see if they sound different. What do you think @Oskari ?



Both RFT and Tesla came into possession of Telefunken assets at the end of WWII. However, as Oskari notes, the actual assembly-line equipment may well have been shipped off to the USSR. But even so, the factory workers and their skill and knowledge remained behind...

In my experience with AZ12 rectifiers, both the RFT and Tesla versions look very similar to Telefunken, and in fact, they also sound very similar to the Telefunken. Based on this, I would guess that EL12 Spez manufactured by RFT and Tesla might also sound similar to Telefunken. But of course, this is pure speculation on my part....

Do we know if Valvo and/or WIRAG manufactured the Spez?  I don't see any datasheets....

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheetsE1.html

But if Valvo and WIRAG manufactured this tube, I would suggest they might be worth a try....


----------



## UntilThen

I've never seen a Valvo label EL12 Spez but I have seen it on the EL12.

There's datasheet for Philips, Telefunken and RFT on that frank.pocnet site for EL11 and I happen to have one of each brand for the EL11 but as you speculate, they could all have the same mole with the exception of the RFT. It has a slimmer shape than the other 2. Not sure if the shape makes any difference.

These Tesla looks nice. I'll get it.


----------



## UntilThen

Yet another brand. It's in German. Anyone knows German? Do they have stock? 
https://classic-tubeshop-kunisch.de/EL12-spez


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I've never seen a Valvo label EL12 Spez but I have seen it on the EL12.
> 
> There's datasheet for Philips, Telefunken and RFT on that frank.pocnet site for EL11 and I happen to have one of each brand for the EL11 but as you speculate, they could all have the same mole with the exception of the RFT. It has a slimmer shape than the other 2. Not sure if the shape makes any difference.
> 
> These Tesla looks nice. I'll get it.



Oskari posted a few listings for the EL11 and EL12.

Note that even though this is labeled Valvo, the production code: MY2 G71 indicated Loewe-Opta. "G" is the factory code.

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/855328603-172-2127

And this Valvo was actually manufactured by Valvo . Production code DP MXB. "D" is the factory code.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352356538378

So when you browse EL12 Spez, look for the Philips production code, specifically, D = Valvo and G = Loewe Opta.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Yet another brand. It's in German. Anyone knows German? Do they have stock?
> https://classic-tubeshop-kunisch.de/EL12-spez



"Röhrenwerk Neuhaus" (an old Telefunken factory) implies RFT to me. But Oskari probably knows more....


----------



## gibosi

Hey Glenn,

I'd like to have an amp built around a pair of Eimac VT-127A: 5 Volts, 10.5 amps, 100 watts.... What do you think? And of course I am joking... lol 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eimac-VT-1...-Amplifier-Transmitter-Modulator/173335873077


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> So when you browse EL12 Spez, look for the Philips production code, specifically, D = Valvo and G = Loewe Opta.



These are my tubes and code:-

1. Philips EL11          code - MX1 - G6A  (Loewe Opta)
2, Philips EL11          code - MX4 - A7A  (What's A? )
3. Telefunken EL11   code - nb                (?)
4. Telefunken EL11   code - 13035          (?)


----------



## UntilThen

Got 3 pairs of EL11 and 2 pairs of EL12 spez now. Bidding on another pair of EL12 spez. Then I will take a break on the EL tubes and go back to enjoying my OTL amp. 

Would you believe it @DecentLevi , I'm finally about to get an amp specially made for EL11 and EL12 spez that has the ability to put out 11 watts !!! These EL12 spez are almost as powerful as the successor EL34.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> These are my tubes and code:-
> 
> 1. Philips EL11          code - MX1 - G6A  (Loewe Opta)
> 2, Philips EL11          code - MX4 - A7A  (What's A? )
> ...


A = WIRAG, Vienna. "Philips Austria".

3. and 4. look like Tfk dates.

nb = Jan 58.

13035 = 31.05.?3; I guess 63. (Since this is just the date, not the full code, the tube might be a purchased one.)


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> "Röhrenwerk Neuhaus" (an old Telefunken factory) implies RFT to me. But Oskari probably knows more....


Yes. Sometimes you see them branded RWN, e.g., https://www.kalaydo.de/kleinanzeige...adio+verstaerkerbitte+kein+paypal/a/a04faf92/.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Yet another brand. It's in German. Anyone knows German? Do they have stock?
> https://classic-tubeshop-kunisch.de/EL12-spez


Nope (but they tell you to ask ).


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> Do we know if Valvo and/or WIRAG manufactured the Spez?


I don't remember having seen any…


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> Nope (but they tell you to ask ).



I wouldn't know how to ask in German. 

Now a question for Glenn. Are you having a cable out of the power socket to the EL12 Spez anode cap?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I wouldn't know how to ask in German.
> 
> Now a question for Glenn. Are you having a cable out of the power socket to the EL12 Spez anode cap?



No I will drill a hole in the transformer case and it will come out of the top of the transformer and right to the tube.
Keeping it as short as possible.
Like to the rectifiers on the 300B.


----------



## UntilThen

Ooo I like. I wouldn't even have thought of that but what would I know.


----------



## UntilThen

Using the same 5 volt rectifier like the EL3N yeah?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Using the same 5 volt rectifier like the EL3N yeah?



Yes it will be in the center of the power transformer.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes it will be in the center of the power transformer.



That's a relief to know because I just won this Gec U52 cheep !


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes you can use that tube.


----------



## UntilThen

I have the GZ34 and U52 rectifiers. That will do plus if you give me a 3DG4, that's 3. Should be sufficient.


----------



## UntilThen

The OTL amp is sounding so good now, it would be hard for the EL12 amp to better it. At most it's a different tone, that's my guess. It will be a very interesting variation though.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

UntilThen said:


> Yet another brand. It's in German. Anyone knows German? Do they have stock?
> https://classic-tubeshop-kunisch.de/EL12-spez


Google translate said out of stock.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I have the GZ34 and U52 rectifiers. That will do plus if you give me a 3DG4, that's 3. Should be sufficient.



No 3DG4 voltage to high for it. Tube should have a PRV rating of at least 850 volts or higher that means no GZ32 it will blow up.
I already had someone try to use a GZ32 in a 300B amp and it blew up and blew the fuse in the amp.


----------



## UntilThen

So GZ34 and U52 ok? Can I use GZ37 and 5U4G?


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes all these tubes will be fine.
5U4  PIV = 1550 volts
GZ34  PIV = 1500 volts
GZ37  PIV = 1600 volts


----------



## 2359glenn

Oh
U52 = PIV 1430 volts


----------



## 2359glenn (May 26, 2018)

Let me try to explain this made easy.
Output of power transformer 425 sine wave so it goes +425 then - 425 now the filter capacitor charges to 425 and the sign wave goes to -425.
The rectifier blocks this but the voltage across the rectifier 425 on the capacitor plus the 425 it is blocking or 850.
That is a simplified exclamation.
So the PIV is twice the operating voltage.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Oh
> U52 = PIV 1430 volts



So U52 will work right?


----------



## 2359glenn

Get a nice GZ37 I like them


----------



## UntilThen

I just got a nice GEC U52. I need to know if it is safe to use it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes the U52 will work


----------



## 2359glenn

The GZ34 is a great tube but not a looker plain little tube


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The GZ34 is a great tube but not a looker plain little tube



Yup the GZ34 that I got is as good as the metal base version. It will be a good contrast to the GEC U52. I will get a GZ37 later.


----------



## 2359glenn

The GZ34 metal base is a great tube I have one also have a GE that is almost as good.
I just prefer the looks of the GZ37.
The GZ34 and GZ37 have the lower voltage drop and I feel are the better tubes. Plus slow turn on they are not direct heated.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn are you referring to the fat or skinny GZ37? There are 2 different types.


----------



## 2359glenn

Electrically I like them both but the fat bottle looks so nice. The skinny Mullard might be better.


----------



## UntilThen

The skinny Mullard gz37 is less than half the price of the fat bottle 53ku. As I have already purchased a U52, I can make a concession and get the skinny instead. 

I'm getting a crash course in rectifiers here. Oh by the way, can a plug in hexfred ss rectifier work with this amp, since you said that the 3DG4 is too high.


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes I can make you a HEXFRED rectifier that will plug into the rectifier socket. They are great but don't look special 
Just a tube base with the diodes n it.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks I would like to try the hexfred too but I have a feeling the EL11 is more transparent and a warmer rectifier would do a better job. Pure speculation. Only hearing the finished amp would I be able to tell.

This is a history of EL34. You probably would have seen it. Shows all the EL type tubes, including EL11, EL12 Spez that precedes the EL34. Right click to translate to english.
http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/EL34-Story/EL34-Story.htm


----------



## gibosi

For those interested in the Raytheon CK 5694 double triode, there are a pair on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/173330819442

Current bid is 51 US dollars for the pair.


----------



## UntilThen

Similar to 6N7G but with different pins. Guess you will need another adapter? Have you use it before Ken?


----------



## UntilThen

Are you kidding me? 

Stolen from the net....

_The Raytheon CK-5694. Electronically similar to a British made ECC32 / CV-181. I am using them as 6SN7 GTB substitutes to drive a pair of 845s. They were ignored because they have a non-standard octal pin-out, which means that they require a small adapter. Professionally made adapters to convert them to a 6SN7 pin-out, are currently available on Ebay for $15.90 each. They feature lower noise, more dynamics, and are better across the entire frequency spectrum. Easily outperform the Mullard & Chelmer Valve ECC32 / CV-181, which go for $600 to $650 a pair at "Tube World", when available.. These tubes are be careful what you ask for, They will reproduce every thing that comes from your source, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Analog, in every sense of the word. If you like digital effects, these are not for you. I am listening to them through custom four-ways, using only first order cross-overs, they allow no room for error. The Raytheon CK-5694, easily the best NOS tube that I have ever owned. One matched & balanced pair available at $400. THESE ARE NOT DIRECT 6SN7 SUBSTITUTES, PLEASE CONSULT AN AUDIO TECHNICIAN BEFORE USING IN YOUR EQUIPMENT! I have a customer who is using them in place of a 6DJ8 / ECC88, in a DAC, with a vacuum tube based output stage, with great results!_


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> For those interested in the Raytheon CK 5694 double triode, there are a pair on eBay:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/173330819442
> 
> Current bid is 51 US dollars for the pair.



Nice...Ken


UntilThen said:


> Are you kidding me?
> 
> Stolen from the net....
> 
> _The Raytheon CK-5694. Electronically similar to a British made ECC32 / CV-181. I am using them as 6SN7 GTB substitutes to drive a pair of 845s. They were ignored because they have a non-standard octal pin-out, which means that they require a small adapter. Professionally made adapters to convert them to a 6SN7 pin-out, are currently available on Ebay for $15.90 each. They feature lower noise, more dynamics, and are better across the entire frequency spectrum. Easily outperform the Mullard & Chelmer Valve ECC32 / CV-181, which go for $600 to $650 a pair at "Tube World", when available.. These tubes are be careful what you ask for, They will reproduce every thing that comes from your source, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Analog, in every sense of the word. If you like digital effects, these are not for you. I am listening to them through custom four-ways, using only first order cross-overs, they allow no room for error. The Raytheon CK-5694, easily the best NOS tube that I have ever owned. One matched & balanced pair available at $400. THESE ARE NOT DIRECT 6SN7 SUBSTITUTES, PLEASE CONSULT AN AUDIO TECHNICIAN BEFORE USING IN YOUR EQUIPMENT! I have a customer who is using them in place of a 6DJ8 / ECC88, in a DAC, with a vacuum tube based output stage, with great results!_



This sounds pretty cool, auction is for a pair of tubes the OTL only need 1!


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Are you kidding me?
> 
> Stolen from the net....
> 
> _The Raytheon CK-5694. Electronically similar to a British made ECC32 / CV-181. I am using them as 6SN7 GTB substitutes to drive a pair of 845s. They were ignored because they have a non-standard octal pin-out, which means that they require a small adapter. Professionally made adapters to convert them to a 6SN7 pin-out, are currently available on Ebay for $15.90 each. They feature lower noise, more dynamics, and are better across the entire frequency spectrum. Easily outperform the Mullard & Chelmer Valve ECC32 / CV-181, which go for $600 to $650 a pair at "Tube World", when available.. These tubes are be careful what you ask for, They will reproduce every thing that comes from your source, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Analog, in every sense of the word. If you like digital effects, these are not for you. I am listening to them through custom four-ways, using only first order cross-overs, they allow no room for error. The Raytheon CK-5694, easily the best NOS tube that I have ever owned. One matched & balanced pair available at $400. THESE ARE NOT DIRECT 6SN7 SUBSTITUTES, PLEASE CONSULT AN AUDIO TECHNICIAN BEFORE USING IN YOUR EQUIPMENT! I have a customer who is using them in place of a 6DJ8 / ECC88, in a DAC, with a vacuum tube based output stage, with great results!_



The 5694 is essentially a 6N7G with separate cathodes. And given its powerful heater, it is most comparable to the ECC32. But as a result of the decision to use a non-standard pin-out, these were a flop in the market place. To the best of my knowledge, no major manufacturer included the 5694 in their radio sets. In the end, Raytheon simply didn't make all that many of them and they are pretty rare.

It seems that the guy quoted above who claimed the 5694 is the best double-triode ever made managed to round up a number of these rare tubes and evidently sold them for $400 a pair. But of course, this is largely marketing hype. Yes, I have this tube, and yes, I think it is very, very good, but no, I do not think it is the best double triode ever made. lol 

So I wouldn't encourage paying anywhere near $400 for the pair, but they are rare and they do sound good....


----------



## UntilThen

With $400 I will buy a juicy rectifier. The OTL amp is sounding incredible now. I'm in a state of zen. Pure calm and bliss. To prospective owners of the OTL amp, you've no idea what's coming your way.

But I need to visualise how my next amp will look. So I enlarge Sam's amp and picture it having the larger 300b transformers, with EL11 and EL12 spez in place. It's looking really good.


----------



## whirlwind

Oh heck, with $400 you can buy a few juicy rectifiers, lol.


----------



## UntilThen

Just one more Joe. Just one more rectifier..... 

After the rather intense bidding of the Osram U52 which I did when I was having dinner at a restaurant, I just need another gz37. Whether it's the fat bottle or the skinny Mullard remains to be seen.


----------



## UntilThen

I have 7 octal gold plated socket savers from mrsxuling for sale. It's been used only once. I'll take 10% off mrsxuling price. Don't need these now. My tube rolling on the OTL is over. I'm set on 6 x 6bx7gt as power tubes and they will remain there. Only the driver gets rolled now and even that isn't happening a lot now. I'm just enjoying music.

So if you need 7 golden socket savers, PM me.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I have 7 octal gold plated socket savers from mrsxuling for sale. It's been used only once. I'll take 10% off mrsxuling price. Don't need these now. My tube rolling on the OTL is over. I'm set on 6 x 6bx7gt as power tubes and they will remain there. Only the driver gets rolled now and even that isn't happening a lot now. I'm just enjoying music.
> 
> So if you need 7 golden socket savers, PM me.


Hi UT,
In addition to the ST type EL11 and straight glass TFKs, there is one more variant - a Loewe-Opta small size ST type tube.
IMHO the best sounding ones are the Telefunken ST type.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy are they on sale? Provide link please. I have a specialised EL11 / EL12 spez amp so I have to ensure I have enough tubes to last 3 lifetime.


----------



## mordy (May 26, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Mordy are they on sale? Provide link please. I have a specialised EL11 / EL12 spez amp so I have to ensure I have enough tubes to last 3 lifetime.


Hi UT,

The small Loewe-Opta are quite rare and I only have one. A quick search on eBay yielded a single offer:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEPRUFT-Ro...341415?hash=item5458479e27:g:XCoAAOSw--Fa-HEQ
It says that this tube has been in their warehouse since 2009 - could not be too much demand..
I have had good luck with Google translate in understanding offerings and in communicating with sellers.
GEPRÜFT: Röhre EL11 Loewe Opta
Wir verbürgen uns für die einwandfreie Funktion dieser mindestens "gut" geprüften Röhre mit der EAN-Nr. 4051154066424
sind Sie nicht vollends zufrieden, tauschen wir sie umgehend um oder erstatten Ihnen den Kaufpreis,
diese Röhre Nr. 7459 wurde mit einem Röhrenprüfgerät Funke W19 geprüft,
ggf. können aufgedruckte Beschriftungen teilweise unleserlich geworden sein.
Angebotsnummer 7459,
Ausführung und Lieferumfang wie abgebildet und beschrieben,
der Artikel ist voll funktionsfähig, sofern nicht in diesem Angebot 7459 ausdrücklich anders beschrieben,
wir haben den Artikel 7459 im Januar 2009 in unseren Lagerbestand aufgenommen.


VERIFIED: Tube EL11 Loewe Opta We vouch for the perfect function of this at least "well" tested tube with the EAN no. 4051154066424 If you are not completely satisfied, we will replace it immediately or refund you the purchase price, this tube No. 7459 was tested with a tube tester spark W19, possibly printed labels may have become partially illegible. Offer number 7459, Design and scope of delivery as shown and described, the article is fully functional, unless explicitly stated otherwise in this offer 7459, We have added item 7459 to our stock in January 2009.
As always, there are anomalies in the translation; as an example "Verified" should be translated "Tested." The Tube tester brand name is Funke which means "spark."
Tested "well" should be translated "good." etc etc
BTW, for you to complete your collection of EL12 Spez, I found a picture of a TFK "Plattfuss'" one:





Could be a mistake though - maybe EL6?
Plattfuss=flat foot=side contact


----------



## UntilThen

It's quite run down looking so I'll stay with minty looking tubes.


----------



## mordy

I also think that it is too expensive, and that the TFK EL11 sound better.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I have 7 octal gold plated socket savers from mrsxuling for sale. It's been used only once. I'll take 10% off mrsxuling price. Don't need these now. My tube rolling on the OTL is over. I'm set on 6 x 6bx7gt as power tubes and they will remain there. Only the driver gets rolled now and even that isn't happening a lot now. I'm just enjoying music.
> 
> So if you need 7 golden socket savers, PM me.



What driver are you using?


----------



## UntilThen

Currently Tung Sol 12sn7gt black glass round plates.


----------



## 2359glenn

Nice sounding tube.

This EL11 - EL12spez amp I am building for you will be the first amp that I sold that didn't listen to the tubes/amp first.
Except amps for Stavros but that is different I gave him most of my experiments. Your OTL with all the output tube sockets
Stavros was my Ginny Pig.
I do expect the EL11 - EL12spez amp to sound great!!


----------



## UntilThen

Didn't you do the same for the 45 amp for Tyrell?

It's ok. I'll let you keep the EL12 spez amp for a month to listen. Make sure you get to enjoy the fruit of your labour. 

I think it will be great. These are great tubes; Look at this vintage Telefunken tube amp using EL12 spez.

*One RARE vintage Telefunken ELA V300 tube amplifier. Made in Germany in the 1950s.  Made for PROFESSIONAL use. Output power is 25 Watt from 2x EL12 spez. PP and 3x ECC81. With high quality microphone transformer. For all common main voltages between 110V and 240V.  See pictures.*

https://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/TELEFUNKEN-vintage-TUBE-amplifier-ELA-V300-EL12-spez-PP-/311181038268


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I do expect the EL11 - EL12spez amp to sound great!!



If I hadn't listen to these tubes before I wouldn't dare plunge in but I have quite extensively. In an amp not design to run it but it sounded good. I've never tried EL12 spez but I've tried EL11, EL12, EL12n both as driver and power tubes. They sound dynamic, clear, bold and energetic. It's like EL3N with the heavens open.

What you do will be totally different though. Transformer coupled with quality Lundahl transformers that you use in your 300b amps. It will be special. I look forward to my 1st transformer coupled amp.


----------



## UntilThen

I was thinking of having preamp out instead of speakers out. Have you done any EL3N with preamp out?


----------



## 2359glenn

No but it would come off the EL11 do you want a switch preamp or power amp?
Or do you want to use both at the same time??


----------



## UntilThen

Coming off EL11 is good because it's a good sounding tube.

Probably a switch to either preamp or power amp. Guess I can't listen to both headphones and speakers at the same time.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> If I hadn't listen to these tubes before I wouldn't dare plunge in but I have quite extensively. In an amp not design to run it but it sounded good. I've never tried EL12 spez but I've tried EL11, EL12, EL12n both as driver and power tubes. *They sound dynamic, clear, bold and energetic. It's like EL3N with the heavens open.*



Now I'll have to try those. At least the EL11s. Project sounds exciting. And more every day.

Good idea to keep the tube rectifier. Definitely helps to shape the SQ. May be all you will ever want or need with those tubes.
Some good and inexpensive rectifiers available for experimentation. Previously recommended by Glenn on this thread.
Even if they never become a favorite, the experimentation is interesting. Less than $20.
Case in point, 5AW4 cleans up the little bit of extra bass diffusion I hear with the 6BL7s, makes them as good as the 6BX7s to my ear.
Another is the 5CU4, but that may not have the PIV you need. I think the 5AW4 is OK.
RK60 has rich low end, not excessive, only $40, may be nice with the Telefunken.


----------



## UntilThen

I was thinking RCA 5U4G. I'll have Gibosi suggest some more cheap rectifiers for me, that is suitable for this amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn I think I will need a durable Yamamoto socket for the rectifier.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I was thinking RCA 5U4G. I'll have Gibosi suggest some more cheap rectifiers for me, that is suitable for this amp.





UntilThen said:


> Glenn I think I will need a durable Yamamoto socket for the rectifier.



Two very good ideas.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn I think I will need a durable Yamamoto socket for the rectifier.



I agree they are a little pricey but may be worth it in the long run.
About $55 each plus shipping from Germany.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I agree they are a little pricey but may be worth it in the long run.
> About $55 each plus shipping from Germany.



Becaue knowing UntilThen there WILL be rectifiers rolling until THEEND comes along.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> Now I'll have to try those. At least the EL11s. Project sounds exciting. And more every day.
> 
> Good idea to keep the tube rectifier. Definitely helps to shape the SQ. May be all you will ever want or need with those tubes.
> Some good and inexpensive rectifiers available for experimentation. Previously recommended by Glenn on this thread.
> ...



May be a alternative to ridiculously expensive 300Bs.
And have better longevity.
I am excited about this project too.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Becaue knowing UntilThen there WILL be rectifiers rolling until THEEND comes along.



How true
Glad to see you stopped tube rolling on the OTL.  And you are staying with the cheep 6BX7s not the over priced GEC6AS7s
I made this amp to use cheep tubes but everyone goes for the GEC and it don't sound better. Maybe better then other 6AS7s
in amps that there are no choice.


----------



## UntilThen

I


2359glenn said:


> May be a alternative to ridiculously expensive 300Bs.
> And have better longevity.
> I am excited about this project too.



I feel safer when the designer is excited about the project.


----------



## UntilThen

Well I might be selling off my priceless power tube collection. GEC 6AS7G etc etc.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> No 3DG4 voltage to high for it. Tube should have a PRV rating of at least 850 volts or higher that means no GZ32 it will blow up.
> I already had someone try to use a GZ32 in a 300B amp and it blew up and blew the fuse in the amp.



As I read this RCA datasheet for the 3DG4, it has a PIV / PRV of 1050. Since this value exceeds 850, I would think that the 3DG4 is OK for the EL amp? Or am I missing something?

http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/HB-3/Receiving_Tubes_Part_1/3DG4.PDF


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> As I read this RCA datasheet for the 3DG4, it has a PIV / PRV of 1050. Since this value exceeds 850, I would think that the 3DG4 is OK for the EL amp? Or am I missing something?
> 
> http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/HB-3/Receiving_Tubes_Part_1/3DG4.PDF



Look under typical operation 550 volts plate to plate that is 275 volts per plate. And DC output voltage 300 volts.
It probably would work but risky.
It looks like a GZ32 will work too but don't try it. Somebody done that in a 300B amp and it blew up. It can work at 500 volts at reduced current
125 ma max at this voltage.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Look under typical operation 550 volts plate to plate that is 275 volts per plate. And DC output voltage 300 volts.
> It probably would work but risky.
> It looks like a GZ32 will work too but don't try it. Somebody done that in a 300B amp and it blew up. It can work at 500 volts at reduced current
> 125 ma max at this voltage.



I think I understand...  Having a PRV above 850 volts is not in itself sufficient. It is also necessary to look at AC Plate to Plate and DC Output voltage at full load to consider how it might perform at 425 volts.

Considering all these characteristics, electrically, the 5R4GY is much better:

http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/HB-3/Receiving-Type_Industrial_Tubes/5R4GY.PDF

PRV = 2800 (below 20,000 feet)

AC Plate to Plate value = 1800 volts
DC Output voltage at full load = 950 volts



UntilThen said:


> I was thinking RCA 5U4G. I'll have Gibosi suggest some more cheap rectifiers for me, that is suitable for this amp.



As my experience is with the GOTL, about 250 volts with two 6AS7G and 325 volts with four 6BX7, I just don't know which cheap rectifiers can handle 425 volts. For now, it is best to let Glenn guide you.


----------



## UntilThen (May 27, 2018)

Thanks gibosi you are a great guide that is for sure. 

But I will let master Yoda guide me. 

In other news, I will get a chance to have the EC Studio for one week in July to listen. I am looking forward to it. Before I call this hobby TheEnd, I want to listen to all the top tube amps and I believe the EC Studio is pretty much close to the end....

Unless someone lends me a Glenn's 300b amp.  

I won't be getting a Glenn 300b or an EC Studio amp. For my fairy tale ending it will be the EL11 / EL12 Spez amp. For better or for worst, like they say.


----------



## UntilThen (May 27, 2018)

I will just call the EL11 and EL12 spez amp as

'Spez'.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> I will just call the EL11 and EL12 spez amp as
> 
> 'Spez'.



Okay, I will watch for this spez then...


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Okay, I will watch for this spez then...



This is really funny because I didn't know what spez meant. Look if Schitt is acceptable who gives a spez what spez meant.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> This is really funny because I didn't know what spez meant. Look if Schitt is acceptable who gives a spez what spez meant.



All I know is that your amp will be spezial!


----------



## UntilThen

So tell me Arnold, do you think I should get Glenn to put 2 meters on Spez, like those on the 300b amps. Or is it too Spezzy?


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> So tell me Arnold, do you think I should get Glenn to put 2 meters on Spez, like those on the 300b amps. Or is it too Spezzy?


I think it will add some bling bling that will make it look even more spezial...


----------



## UntilThen

Nah I'll keep it a clean look like Sam's amp and put the money in Jupiter's caps instead.


----------



## UntilThen

A little over 5 months now with my OTL amp. Time to wrap up with another review. There can be no mistake that it is fully burn in and stabilised now. It is operating optimally now. I use it everyday. The sound is frightfully good. Any system that takes up more of my time from my stereo system must be good. There was a time when I was so wrapped with my stereo system and I still love it. Amazed by the sound when I listened to it. However listening to the headphone system now has just that slight edge over the stereo system. I find that quite a revelation.

A big part that contributes to my total enjoyment of the headphone system is Glenn's OTL amp. After 5 months, I'm still astonished at how good it's making the HD800 sound. No sibilance, no treble peak, HD800 soars and scales like never before with GOTL. It's unthinkable that HD800 bass would be enjoyable but it is now.

Which brings me to my favourite tubes with this amp. It is the Tung Sol black glass round plates with sextet 6bx7gt. It took me almost 2 years of my tube amp life to sample the TS bgrp. Now that I've spend some considerable time with the TS, I am starting to appreciate how good it sounds. However it is when it is paired with 6bx7, that the synergy starts to flow.  All that I'm seeking in the perfect tone, is embodied in this combination in GOTL. Total linearity that doesn't tilt the frequency scale in one direction or the other. This is when I stop thinking about treble, midrange and bass as different spectrum of the FR. Music is presented as a whole and what I hear is totally satisfying. This is hard to put in words but the GOTL makes my Ragnarok sounds flat and anemic. Surprising that I sold off the Ragnarok but I didn't miss it because GOTL is here and sounds like a high end system sound to me.

However all these adoration and praise would be meaningless if I didn't get a chance to compare it to other high end tube amps. I've already spend 2 weeks comparing it to the Woo Audio Wa5 and end up preferring the GOTL. If everything works out as planned, I will able to sit down with GOTL and EC Studio for a week. I'm looking forward to that session.

Finally, I'll be able to compare GOTL with Spez sometime later in the year. I have no idea how Spez will sound, other then it will be great. Until that day comes, my only thought is that GOTL has the sound that I'm looking for and is irreplaceable. It could easily form the back bone of my reference headphone system. That's how much I like it.

A picture of the amp with the tubes in it now as I listen with Sennheiser HD800.


----------



## UntilThen

See this Krell s300i integrated amp is mouth watering at 150w into 8 ohms and 300w into 4 ohms. It will cost less than half of what I will spend in Spez but ss amp just doesn't excite me as much as a well executed tube amp. I'm still more excited with the Spez project.

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/247181-krell-s300i-integrated-amp-in-exc-condition/


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> See this Krell s300i integrated amp is mouth watering at 150w into 8 ohms and 300w into 4 ohms. It will cost less than half of what I will spend in Spez but ss amp just doesn't excite me as much as a well executed tube amp. I'm still more excited with the Spez project.
> 
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/247181-krell-s300i-integrated-amp-in-exc-condition/



I can use cheaper transformers and bring the price way down use lower cost capacitors. Will it sound as good?
I am listening to my 300B speaker amps now with $100 One Electron transformers and it sounds dam good.
It is direct coupled with no coupling caps 850 volts B+. Some of my craziness from the past.


----------



## UntilThen

Don't change a thing with what you are doing Glenn. You choose your components carefully. They are not there just because they have a reputable name and a high price. Just looking at the OTL pricing, it makes the competition ridiculously expensive and they are not half as good as the OTL sound. Sometimes I think you're doing the community a service. As a custom specialist builder, your amps should have cost a lot more but they are not. It's a labour of love if I may say so.

Most specialist amp builder would have farm out the work to some apprentice but you do it all by yourself. It's incredible.


----------



## 2359glenn

I should raise the prices especially on the OTL takes weeks to build not really making much.

Right now I am streaming oldies all rock.
Brings bask memories of the 70s when I worked at Harman Kardon.
Each of us technicians had our own stereo and headphones got to listen to music and work on stereos all day.
And they paid me for it. Best job I ever had pay sucked though.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I should raise the prices especially on the OTL takes weeks to build not really making much.



Now the community will hate me. I'm gonna get rocks thrown through my screen any minute now.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Right now I am streaming oldies all rock.
> Brings bask memories of the 70s when I worked at Harman Kardon.
> Each of us technicians had our own stereo and headphones got to listen to music and work on stereos all day.
> And they paid me for it. Best job I ever had pay sucked though.



Ah the 70s.... brings back memories. Where the music's great, so was my body and looks. 

I don't work in Harman Kardon. I work in General Electric then. Not as an electronics technician like you. I am a computer programmer. That was the beginning of my career. It's more fun to build amps than to write codes and meet deadlines.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Now the community will hate me. I'm gonna get rocks thrown through my screen any minute now.



Not your fault. My ole lady and Stavros are telling me I am selling amps to cheep. And they are right.
Building a OTL now and been working on it for weeks. Takes awhile as my health is not good at this point.
Some days I cant do it after work useless in old age.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Ah the 70s.... brings back memories. Where the music's great, so was my body and looks.
> 
> I don't work in Harman Kardon. I work in General Electric then. Not as an electronics technician like you. I am a computer programmer. That was the beginning of my career. It's more fun to build amps than to write codes and meet deadlines.



You know I  sold amps to people that weren't even alive in the 70s.
We are old!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## whirlwind (May 28, 2018)

Right now I am streaming oldies all rock.
Brings bask memories of the 70s when I worked at Harman Kardon.
Each of us technicians had our own stereo and headphones got to listen to music and work on stereos all day.
And they paid me for it. Best job I ever had pay sucked though.[/QUOTE]

I loved the 70's for rock music, I was in high school and did not have a care in the world.

It is a shame that some of the recordings back then were less than stellar....I still always try any new digital version of Led Zep.
There is some wonderful stuff that is recorded good though ..Pink Floyd, Alan Parsons Project,Steely Dan.

I listen to Junior Wells debut album a lot.  Recorded in 1965.....just epic and the quality of the recording is out of sight.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I for one am excited that Glenn is a true crafstman and I am onlist for a OTL . I already have C3G's from Germany and 6 of Glenn's recommended 6Н13С Svetlana  coming slowly from Bulgaria and will be ordering 6 of the 6BLZ's  . I think this should do the trick for my ZMF Teak Auetur's . 

I was in high school in the 70's and yes Joe even the new remasters aren't always recorded great . 

This thread is contagious with enthusiasm. 

Thanks Glenn looking forward to a by product of your passion.


----------



## gibosi

FunctionalDoc said:


> I for one am excited that Glenn is a true crafstman and I am onlist for a OTL . I already have C3G's from Germany and 6 of Glenn's recommended 6Н13С Svetlana  coming slowly from Bulgaria and will be ordering 6 of the 6BLZ's  . I think this should do the trick for my ZMF Teak Auetur's .
> 
> I was in high school in the 70's and yes Joe even the new remasters aren't always recorded great .
> 
> ...



Welcome to the Glenn Club. That makes three members in Ohio, that I know of, Joe, you and I.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You know I  sold amps to people that weren't even alive in the 70s.
> We are old!!!!!!!!!!



Nah we're not old. We are baby boomers and we live through the best and most fascinating era of history. It's when I started listening to Deep Purple, Led Zep, Uriah Heep, Bad Company, Black Sabbath..... and Dire Straits. 

70s was when I went into the army, came out of the army, fell in love, bought my 1st stereo which is a Mitsubishi. Why Mitsubishi? It's the only thing I could afford at the audio shop and it cost $1100 then !!! A turntable, a receiver, a twin cassette deck and a pair of floor standing speakers. All house in a custom made cabinet. It was my pride and joy. Rock music never sounded better or at least I thought it sounded great.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
Here is a picture of my first stereo system - a KLH Model 11 Suitcase Stereo for my dormitory room in 1977:


----------



## UntilThen

FunctionalDoc said:


> This thread is contagious with enthusiasm.
> 
> Thanks Glenn looking forward to a by product of your passion.



You pick the 3 words that aptly describe this thread. Contagious, enthusiasm and passion. If the OTL amp is your first tube amp then you've shot straight to the top of class. It's labour intensive to build, sounds like a gem and a collector's item.

When I have Spez, I would want to change the OTL's sockets to Yamamoto's and replace the caps with Jupiter's.


----------



## mordy

Thinking back almost 60 years, I think I grew up with a Swedish Dux stereo that looked similar to this:




I sat in front of the radio with a microphone and a reel-to-reel Philips tape  recorder and built up my music library. There was a single government sponsored radio station which played all kinds of music of every genre. When I heard something I liked I hit the record button. Later on I found out that what I liked was 20's jazz.


----------



## whirlwind

FunctionalDoc said:


> I for one am excited that Glenn is a true crafstman and I am onlist for a OTL . I already have C3G's from Germany and 6 of Glenn's recommended 6Н13С Svetlana  coming slowly from Bulgaria and will be ordering 6 of the 6BLZ's  . I think this should do the trick for my ZMF Teak Auetur's .
> 
> I was in high school in the 70's and yes Joe even the new remasters aren't always recorded great .
> 
> ...



Hi Rick, nice to see you posting in the thread.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

My Yamaha CA-1010 amp I paid $475 of hard arned dollars mowing grass and busing tables but it is 20 watts class A and 90 watts AB  and weighs 43 lbs. I had not used the amp in like 15 years and the POTs whwere dirty and EE engineer brother cleaned them and the 2 days after using the right channel was going out. It is infor service with a veteran service person. 

Still have my orginal direct drive Sony PSX-5 with a Ortofon Concorde 10 MC cartiridge and will soon adding a RLS SPEEDWOOFER 10S for my small office room setup for 2 channel and headphone listening man cave. 

I went RMAF last year and just can't how absurdly 2 channel gear has gone up in price in 40 years. The priceshave  increased way more than just inflation. A comparabale intergrated amp today from Yamaha 3k. 

I love the abilty with headphones and great amps to have several flavors and it won't break the bank.


----------



## gibosi

Well.... I used to play guitar in a rock band in the 1960's.... So my first "music system" was an old Garrard turntable plugged directly into two Fender amplifiers, one for each channel. And if you are thinking... no phono equalization, you would be right. lol


----------



## UntilThen

We could have a Mike Jagger in our midst.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Well.... I used to play guitar in a rock band in the 1960's.... So my first "music system" was an old Garrard turntable plugged directly into two Fender amplifiers, one for each channel. And if you are thinking... no phono equalization, you would be right. lol



Funny I had a Garrard TT and I hooked left and right together for mono and ran with no equalization into a 11 watt push pull amp with 6BL7 output.
Sounded pretty good to me as a kid about 12.
Still have that amp I built as a kid in the shed.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> We could have a Mike Jagger in our midst.



Actually I would prefer to be an Eric Clapton... 

But it was very obvious to me that while I was pretty good, I didn't have anything special... Very capable journeymen guitarists are (and were) a dime-a-dozen. So I quit the band and finished up my college degree instead.



2359glenn said:


> Funny I had a Garrard TT and I hooked left and right together for mono and ran with no equalization into a 11 watt push pull amp with 6BL7 output.
> Sounded pretty good to me as a kid about 12.
> Still have that amp I built as a kid in the shed.



I thought my "system" was pretty good too. lol 
But the Garrard and Fenders are all long gone....


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Actually I would prefer to be an Eric Clapton...
> 
> But it was very obvious to me that while I was pretty good, I didn't have anything special... Very capable journeymen guitarists are (and were) a dime-a-dozen. So I quit the band and finished up my college degree instead.
> 
> ...




Talk about a good guitar player...Clapton sure is one.
The guy was in so many good bands....one of my favorites.


----------



## UntilThen

I prefer Mark Knopfler. 

Anyway the pair of NOS NIB Tung Sol 12SL7GT arrived from Phoenix Arizona. So gleaming new I can't believe they are just $99. If these were 6SN7GT it would have been $400.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> I prefer Mark Knopfler.
> 
> Anyway the pair of NOS NIB Tung Sol 12SL7GT arrived from Phoenix Arizona. So gleaming new I can't believe they are just $99. If these were 6SN7GT it would have been $400.



Too good for ol’ Slowhand? Lol


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Funny I had a Garrard TT and I hooked left and right together for mono and ran with no equalization into a 11 watt push pull amp with 6BL7 output.
> Sounded pretty good to me as a kid about 12.
> Still have that amp I built as a kid in the shed.



I had the Garrard Zero 100c table that I used for years.  Traded it for a Roberts Reel to Reel that had 2x mono tube amps in it to power internal speakers.  Kind of a heavy duty high quality boom box 

I see the Roberts R to R on Ebay selling for huge money these days....


----------



## UntilThen

All this talk of turntables is making me apprehensive. I am not using my Rega RP8 enough. The return on investment is not as great as the Yggdrasil which is used every day.

I have to admit though that when I spin my brand new 180gm copy of Dark Side Of The Moon it becomes the bright side. I hear everything !


----------



## UntilThen

Omg why did I bid on another pair of Gec u52. It looks like I might win it.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> Now the community will hate me. I'm gonna get rocks thrown through my screen any minute now.



Oh no. No need to throw rocks or any form of violence. I'll just have you sell me your GOTL like it or not mwuahaha


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I prefer Mark Knopfler.
> 
> Anyway the pair of NOS NIB Tung Sol 12SL7GT arrived from Phoenix Arizona. So gleaming new I can't believe they are just $99. If these were 6SN7GT it would have been $400.



Oh yeah, Knopfler can play too, I remember they had the first cd that was ever produced, Brother In Arms...I played that to death...all of their albums were top notch...shame they could not have continued.

For some good seventies stuff try this Clapton album

 
This is all live performances from 1974-1978  Four CD set
Much of the focus is on long renditions of electric blues.


----------



## UntilThen

Ah ha, no one is touching my


felix3650 said:


> Oh no. No need to throw rocks or any form of violence. I'll just have you sell me your GOTL like it or not mwuahaha



If you know how much I love Ulysses, you will know that is mission impossible.  

I got adventurous and am now running 3 Tung Sol 12SL7GT black glass round plates.  Incredible tone. The new pair of tubes have number 322926. Both tubes identical. I'm really good with drivers now. I have 4 of these BGRP.


----------



## UntilThen

Joe I have that Eric Clapton album of 4 CDs for about 20 years now. I haven't play it much. It is still in tip top condition. The cover is like a book with lots of pictures and narratives inside. It does sound very good but somehow I don't play it much but now I will. I love Eric Clapton and John Mayer's kind of blues.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Joe I have that Eric Clapton album of 4 CDs for about 20 years now. I haven't play it much. It is still in tip top condition. The cover is like a book with lots of pictures and narratives inside. It does sound very good but somehow I don't play it much but now I will. I love Eric Clapton and John Mayer's kind of blues.




Very nice Matt, same as I have....I love the 24 minute jam on disc two with Carlos Santana  ...Eyesight To The Blind/Why Does Love Got To Be So Sad


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Ah ha, no one is touching my
> 
> 
> If you know how much I love Ulysses, you will know that is mission impossible.
> ...




Ha, oh man...you are going to have peoples heads all messed up...thinking they can run three of those 12SL7GT's


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Ha, oh man...you are going to have peoples heads all messed up...thinking they can run three of those 12SL7GT's



Hahahaha it's a new Glenn OTL amp running three 6sn7s as drivers.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Very nice Matt, same as I have....I love the 24 minute jam on disc two with Carlos Santana  ...Eyesight To The Blind/Why Does Love Got To Be So Sad



I've these 4 CDs ripped to my hard drive and am now playing back via JRiver Mc24. Listening to Wonderful Tonight. I am really feeling wonderful tonight.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I've these 4 CDs ripped to my hard drive and am now playing back via JRiver Mc24. Listening to Wonderful Tonight. I am really feeling wonderful tonight.



I have mine ripped to hard drive also.
Enjoy sir...wish I could listen to mine right now...but it is off to work.
Later Matt.


----------



## UntilThen

Have a good day Joe. It's weird talking to you guys. It's night here but it's morning where you are. Kind of strange.


----------



## UntilThen

I lost out on the used Brimar U52 brown base but just as well as I have an Osram U52 inbound. Instead I'll turn my attention on a Cossor 53ku.

@Sound Infinity can you do another update of your EL3N amp. Presumably you have more hours on it now.


----------



## lukeap69

Before I practice the songs my uncle requested me to jam along with them, I play Wonderful Tonight and When The Smoke Is Going Down (by Scorpions). I basically grew up hearing these songs so they are deeply planted into my brain! 

PS - I like Dire Straits too!


----------



## UntilThen

Guess we can form a band. There's a drum set in my house and it's not too late for me to learn how to play it.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Guess we can form a band. There's a drum set in my house and it's not too late for me to learn how to play it.


Supercool. I have an electric guitar and an acoustic guitar. However, you are at the opposite side of  the globe.


----------



## mordy

lukeap69 said:


> Supercool. I have an electric guitar and an acoustic guitar. However, you are at the opposite side of  the globe.


Try Skype!


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> Ah ha, no one is touching my
> 
> 
> If you know how much I love Ulysses, you will know that is mission impossible.
> ...



Oh don't worry Matt! I will never take the GOTL from you. I know how much you love it. And those great pics you post everytime. If the opportunity presents I think I'll go with something similar to yours, 6x 6BX7GT plus those other drivers. Got my Auteur but still a bit tight on the money for the moment.. 

I too thought "what the heck, no way he can run 3 driver tubes and NO WAY he would mod his amp without refering to Glenn first"


----------



## UntilThen

Ah Felik you're cool, super cool. I like you. So you're an electronics engineer. I got to tell you that the LCD-2f sounds really good out of GOTL and I've no doubt Auteur too. The new pair of TS 12sl7gt bgrp is just incredible. Totally quiet and the more I listen to these bgrp the more I like them. That goes for GOTL too. The more I listen to GOTL the more I like it. So I hope someday you'll get a chance to hear or own this sweet sounding amp.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> Ah Felik you're cool, super cool. I like you. So you're an electronics engineer. I got to tell you that the LCD-2f sounds really good out of GOTL and I've no doubt Auteur too. The new pair of TS 12sl7gt bgrp is just incredible. Totally quiet and the more I listen to these bgrp the more I like them. That goes for GOTL too. The more I listen to GOTL the more I like it. So I hope someday you'll get a chance to hear or own this sweet sounding amp.



Yup electronics engineer here 

LCD2 traded for a pair of mint (10h head time) Sundara. Also the Auteur is very smooth sounding. It's only missing the magic that only tubes create, should be the same for your Eikon as it's essentially the same driver! These 300ohm headphones love tubes, especially OTL amps. 

I can't seem to find these tubes (TS 12sl7gt bgrp).. are they as good as the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base? This last one too is a bit tricky to find NOS.


----------



## UntilThen

EL6 tubes arrived. Boxes are brittle with age but the tubes are in the best of shape I've ever seen of any tubes. So new and well preserved. These must be very old tubes.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> EL6 tubes arrived. Boxes are brittle with age but the tubes are in the best of shape I've ever seen of any tubes. So new and well preserved. These must be very old tubes.


Possibly Hungarian Tungsram tubes - date codes?


----------



## Sound Trooper

Hey guys,

I believe the EL3N uses 5v rectifier tubes and I’m toying with the idea of rolling rectifiers. Can anyone recommend me a good 5v rectifier tube?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Possibly Hungarian Tungsram tubes - date codes?



From the seller's listing:-

*2x EL6 Ultron NIB Identical

Tested :

1) 71/14,5 code : wlfr

2) 64/13 code : wlfr

These tubes are never been used !

Testdata : 72/14,5 = 100%*


----------



## jekjek (May 30, 2018)

Sound Infinity said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I believe the EL3N uses 5v rectifier tubes and I’m toying with the idea of rolling rectifiers. Can anyone recommend me a good 5v rectifier tube?



How abt brimar 5r4gy
Cossor 53ku
And the famous u52


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Infinity said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I believe the EL3N uses 5v rectifier tubes and I’m toying with the idea of rolling rectifiers. Can anyone recommend me a good 5v rectifier tube?



Yes you can use most any 5 volt rectifier GZ34 GZ37 5U4G and many more


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> EL6 tubes arrived. Boxes are brittle with age but the tubes are in the best of shape I've ever seen of any tubes. So new and well preserved. These must be very old tubes.



What amp are you going to use them in ?


----------



## gibosi

Sound Infinity said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I believe the EL3N uses 5v rectifier tubes and I’m toying with the idea of rolling rectifiers. Can anyone recommend me a good 5v rectifier tube?



Just a comment...  While I can suggest lots of good rectifiers for use in a GOTL, I have no experience rolling rectifiers in a GEL3N. And further, the number of folks who are actually rolling rectifiers in an GEL3N is quite small. So collectively, we just don't have much experience in this matter. And thus, my advice is to start cheap.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> From the seller's listing:-
> 
> *2x EL6 Ultron NIB Identical
> 
> ...


Hi UT,
The Tungsram codes are all two digit combinations - maybe you can find something by looking at the tube.....


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> What amp are you going to use them in ?



Not going to use the EL6 now. I've sold it to Sam. He will put it to good use.


----------



## UntilThen (May 30, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> The Tungsram codes are all two digit combinations - maybe you can find something by looking at the tube.....



Well you're assuming it's Tungsram. It's possibly not.

The only code is at the front of the tube as seen in the picture (in white and small letters) and also as stated in the seller's listing.

*wlfr*


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Just a comment...  While I can suggest lots of good rectifiers for use in a GOTL, I have no experience rolling rectifiers in a GEL3N. And further, the number of folks who are actually rolling rectifiers in an GEL3N is quite small. So collectively, we just don't have much experience in this matter. And thus, my advice is to start cheap.



The EL3N amp draws low current about 100ma so any 5 volt rectifier would work and all those 4 volt rectifiers will also work with a adapter.


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> Yup electronics engineer here
> 
> LCD2 traded for a pair of mint (10h head time) Sundara. Also the Auteur is very smooth sounding. It's only missing the magic that only tubes create, should be the same for your Eikon as it's essentially the same driver! These 300ohm headphones love tubes, especially OTL amps.
> 
> I can't seem to find these tubes (TS 12sl7gt bgrp).. are they as good as the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base? This last one too is a bit tricky to find NOS.



In the last 2 months, I've come to the conclusion that the HD800 and LCD-2f sounds best on the GOTL, amongst 4 of my headphones. Eikon and Atticus sounds beautiful on Ragnarok and I love them a lot but on GOTL, I'm hearing some hiss, noise or hum. On HD800 and LCD-2f, it's silent. This is using the same tubes (my fav drivers) and 6 x 6bx7gt. Why it is that way with Eikon and Atticus, I haven't got a clue. I tested this over 2 months. So finally I sold off E & A on the weekend and I got inundated with replies from people who wants to buy it. I have never had an easier time selling any of my gear. It is astonishing. 

So now I'm left with 2 very contrasting headphones and I've to say that I'm very happy because they sound phenomenal with GOTL.

I happen to be on the scene looking for TS 12sl7gt bgrp at the right time. The tubes are just there and at a cheap price. So I bought it. That doesn't mean it's plentiful. All good tubes are scare now. You just have to keep looking.

As to whether it's better than Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, that's still a hard question for me to answer. I love both supremely. You're looking at the king and queen of 6sn7s.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Well you're assuming it's Tungsram. It's possibly not.


Tungsram with no Tungsram code. That's my guess.


----------



## gibosi (May 30, 2018)

Sound Infinity said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I believe the EL3N uses 5v rectifier tubes and I’m toying with the idea of rolling rectifiers. Can anyone recommend me a good 5v rectifier tube?





2359glenn said:


> The EL3N amp draws low current about 100ma so any 5 volt rectifier would work and all those 4 volt rectifiers will also work with a adapter.



Sound Infinity... To put Glenn's post in perspective, his OTL with two 6AS7 requires about 250ma, whereas, the EL3N requires only about 100ma. So there are tons of rectifiers that can be used in the EL3N compared to the relatively small number that can be used in the GOTL.

As I noted before, I think it is highly likely that rectifiers that many feel are top-tier in the GOTL will also be top-tier in the EL3N. But I just don't know...  And further, since there are tons of rectifiers out there that are not powerful enough for us to try in the GOTL, we simply have no idea how good they are....

I do know of one example: @whirlwind has tried a Type 80, which was originally introduced in 1927 by RCA. Again, this rectifier is nowhere near powerful enough to be used in a GOTL. And I seem to remember that he felt that it was pretty good in his EL3N. Perhaps he will comment further? Anyway,  since you are among a very small number who have the GEL3N, I would encourage you to think of yourself as a pioneer. Have fun! But watch your wallet! lol 

And if you are interested in trying 4-volt rectifiers, all of which require the use of adapters, pm me.


----------



## wazzupi

Im about to buy a local hd800 for 500 bucks on Friday !!!


----------



## Hansotek

Just received my Cossor 45IU today, which is the legendary 53KU with a 4V base (for about $200 less, if you have the US transformer). Anyway, holy crap! Where to start? Warmth, romance, intimacy, dynamics - so much tubey goodness! I still haven't tried the Western Electric, but going off Dubstep Girl's rectifier mega review thread, I now have tubes 2, 3 and 4 from the list (though the GEC and Cossor are 4V equivalents, but by all accounts, the same tubes). Anyway, my initial gut reaction is that I prefer the sound of the Cossor 53KU / 45IU and Miniwatt GZ34 to the GEC U18/20 / U52. The GEC has nice transparency, air and purity of tone, and sometimes the mids just get you, but the GZ34 and 45IU/53KU both have more powerful dynamics, impact, engagement, etc. The GEC seems a little polite in comparison. It's maybe a little more etherial, whereas the GZ34 and the Cossor are both more tactile - I, personally, connect with that a little more.


----------



## UntilThen

Though I will never use a tube rectifier in my OTL, I now have the Miniwatt gz34 and Osram u52.


----------



## Sound Trooper

gibosi said:


> Sound Infinity... To put Glenn's post in perspective, his OTL with two 6AS7 requires about 250ma, whereas, the EL3N requires only about 100ma. So there are tons of rectifiers that can be used in the EL3N compared to the relatively small number that can be used in the GOTL.
> 
> As I noted before, I think it is highly likely that rectifiers that many feel are top-tier in the GOTL will also be top-tier in the EL3N. But I just don't know...  And further, since there are tons of rectifiers out there that are not powerful enough for us to try in the GOTL, we simply have no idea how good they are....
> 
> ...



Thanks @gibosi , I'm starting my search for rectifiers!


----------



## 2359glenn

Hansotek said:


> Just received my Cossor 45IU today, which is the legendary 53KU with a 4V base (for about $200 less, if you have the US transformer). Anyway, holy crap! Where to start? Warmth, romance, intimacy, dynamics - so much tubey goodness! I still haven't tried the Western Electric, but going off Dubstep Girl's rectifier mega review thread, I now have tubes 2, 3 and 4 from the list (though the GEC and Cossor are 4V equivalents, but by all accounts, the same tubes). Anyway, my initial gut reaction is that I prefer the sound of the Cossor 53KU / 45IU and Miniwatt GZ34 to the GEC U18/20 / U52. The GEC has nice transparency, air and purity of tone, and sometimes the mids just get you, but the GZ34 and 45IU/53KU both have more powerful dynamics, impact, engagement, etc. The GEC seems a little polite in comparison. It's maybe a little more etherial, whereas the GZ34 and the Cossor are both more tactile - I, personally, connect with that a little more.



It don't have to have the US transformer it the amp can use the 3DG4 it can run the 4 volt rectifiers with the modified adapter.
The EL3N and OTL that will run the 3DG4 can run these 4 volt rectifiers


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> It don't have to have the US transformer it the amp can use the 3DG4 it can run the 4 volt rectifiers with the modified adapter.
> The EL3N and OTL that will run the 3DG4 can run these 4 volt rectifiers



Huh, I could swear you said these would damage the Lundahl transformer at one point. Maybe I was mistaken about that.


----------



## UntilThen

If you're looking for some excellent drivers for the GOTL, you can consider some of these tubes from LJ. A very keen head-fi enthusiast and a good friend.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6sl7-tubes-for-sale.880964/#post-14274836


----------



## Xcalibur255

A really cheap way to try an 80 is to buy a 5Y3.  They're everywhere.  A safe guess is they would have a soft, mellow sound.  These tubes have a ton of voltage drop, especially given their modest output capacity.

They sound nice in Dennis Had's Inspire IHA-1 for whatever that's worth.  That amp has very modest B+ requirements.  Not the most resolved sound but exceptionally musical with a certain sense of inner glow that's charming.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
Here is a link to "the ultimate EL12":
https://www.ebay.com/itm/KL73551-F2...291984?hash=item41be486dd0:g:Y-AAAOSw44BYJYnf


----------



## gibosi

I have no idea if it is the "ultimate", but in general, Klangfilm tubes are rare and expensive.

I have been watching this Klangfilm KI 76303 (RGN2504) rectifier with mesh plates, early to mid 1930's I would guess, but as usual, the price is climbing beyond my reach. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KLANGFILM-KI-76303-RGN2504-mash-Anode-3/222995031562


----------



## Sound Trooper

Returning to the subject of rectifier tubes, I'll be getting a GZ34 (made in Sittard Holland) from UT and also closing in on a Mullard GZ32. I'll report back once I have these tubes in the house.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Sound Infinity... To put Glenn's post in perspective, his OTL with two 6AS7 requires about 250ma, whereas, the EL3N requires only about 100ma. So there are tons of rectifiers that can be used in the EL3N compared to the relatively small number that can be used in the GOTL.
> 
> As I noted before, I think it is highly likely that rectifiers that many feel are top-tier in the GOTL will also be top-tier in the EL3N. But I just don't know...  And further, since there are tons of rectifiers out there that are not powerful enough for us to try in the GOTL, we simply have no idea how good they are....
> 
> ...




I have not begun to put my thoughts down on paper yet of the differences in rectifiers and I am early on in my rectifier rolling experience.
I don't roll them all that often as I tend to leave a tube in for sometime to really get a good feel for the sound...
All this being said I listend to my 80 globe a lot since receiving it from Glenn.
I liked the sound, the look and the idea that the tube was from the 1920's.
Also l like the price which is exceptionally good ...nice bang for the buck.

I can say that rolling rectifier tubes in the EL3N amp, while I can hear a difference in the sound {warmth, staging} it is not near as pronounced as rolling drivers in the OTL amp.
Or maybe I have just not found the right rectifier yet.
My journey will continue with rectifiers once I get my EL3N amp back.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> I have not begun to put my thoughts down on paper yet of the differences in rectifiers and I am early on in my rectifier rolling experience.
> I don't roll them all that often as I tend to leave a tube in for sometime to really get a good feel for the sound...
> All this being said I listend to my 80 globe a lot since receiving it from Glenn.
> I liked the sound, the look and the idea that the tube was from the 1920's.
> ...



Hi @whirlwind , I did not expect to be rolling rectifier tubes when I first got the EL3N, but look at where we are now. 

I have the GZ34 & GZ32 incoming and can't wait to start experimenting with the rectifiers. Those EL6 from UT are also on the way and I'm keen to see if it adds to the experience of the EL3N tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Sam if I'm wicked I could teased you into buying my Osram U52 but I think I will keep this rectifier. I'll forever remember I bid on the auction through my Sat night dinner and finally won it at GBP 160. 

It's an expensive dinner.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Infinity said:


> Hi @whirlwind , I did not expect to be rolling rectifier tubes when I first got the EL3N, but look at where we are now.
> 
> I have the GZ34 & GZ32 incoming and can't wait to start experimenting with the rectifiers. Those EL6 from UT are also on the way and I'm keen to see if it adds to the experience of the EL3N tubes.



Hi @Sound Infinity

I also have a GZ32 tube here, waiting to hear it ...it is on loan from @gibosi 
I will look forward to hearing your impressions of the EL6  

It is cool that you can use all 5 volt and also 4 volt rectifiers.....4 volt rectifiers can save some series cash

Here are a few rectifiers that I have tried....probably have not used any long enough to burn in, but I am not sure.
Amp sounds great with all of them.


----------



## UntilThen

Glad I'm not rolling rectifiers on the OTL because rolling drivers and power tubes almost drove me up the wall. Just when I say no more tubes, I bought a ECC35 and a RCA 5691 from LJ. Well this is it. Too many good drivers now. The amp sounds really sick now. Really really sick. If there's a better sounding headphone amp with HD800, I want to hear it.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Here is a link to "the ultimate EL12":



Ultimate.... ?  

I want you to listen to this song and when they sing 'Ready for love', you think of 'Ready for change'.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Hi @Sound Infinity
> 
> I also have a GZ32 tube here, waiting to hear it ...it is on loan from @gibosi
> I will look forward to hearing your impressions of the EL6
> ...



OMG!  More rectifiers!


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Ultimate.... ?
> 
> I want you to listen to this song and when they sing 'Ready for love', you think of 'Ready for change'.



Hi UT,
I was just quoting the advertising hype for this tube......

Which leads me to another possibility for the EL3N amp:




This is an EL54 tube, similar to the EL6:
https://www.btb-elektronik.de/artikel/523975
However, it may have an anode cap, but I can't see it in the picture.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el54.html


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> I was just quoting the advertising hype for this tube......
> 
> Which leads me to another possibility for the EL3N amp:
> ...


According to this, the EL54 (= 4699) is a higher spec EL6:

http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/short/054/2/225.pdf


----------



## JazzVinyl

Another guitar player recommendation for Joe:
Hiram Bullock (RIP):

Try Hiram’s song “Half Life” off his “Give it what you got” LP....

Crazy good SQ and dynamics.  And his incredible “make it seem easy” playing.  

Hiram had the gig of lead guitar for the “Late Night With David Letterman” band, for years....

Also worth a listen is his incredible playing on Carla Bley’s masterpiece: “Sextet”....

Cheers....


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Another guitar player recommendation for Joe:
> Hiram Bullock (RIP):
> 
> Try Hiram’s song “Half Life” off his “Give it what you got” LP....
> ...




Thank you @JazzVinyl

Yes, I have seen Hiram Bullock in the past on David Letterman, Joe Bonamassa's current drummer was also with David Letterman for years, Anton Fig.

I have no Hiram Bullock albums, but i will look into getting "Give It What You Got"

Thanks again!


----------



## whirlwind

I have the OTL for the whole weekend so I rolled some different power tubes this morning....Chatham 6AS7G, while these are not as good as my favorite power tubes..they are still really good.
I bought three sets from Leeds Radio a few years back and got them for $45 a set...a real steal at this price...all three sets had the copper rods.


----------



## Hansotek

Holy hell, listening to Roon>Yggy Analog 2 > GOTL (Cossor 45IU, C3G, 4X RCA 6BX7) > HD800... this combo is so %$#&ing good, I can't even handle it. I'm stuck listening to Broken Bells self titled debut album over and over again right now - the fine layering of Danger Mouse's production is blowing my mind.


----------



## UntilThen

Hans congrats on the Yggdrasil A2. That setup is almost the same as what I listen to on a daily basis. I've Roon (PC), Audirvana (Mac), JRiver MC24 (PC & Mac), Tidal Premium and of course Youtube. 

My current setup now is Audirvana Plus 3 > Yggy > GOTL (Gec B36, 6 x GE 6BX7) > HD800. My daily fix.

It's good to see Joe and you talking about the GOTL because she is such a great sounding amp in the right setup.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Hans congrats on the Yggdrasil A2. That setup is almost the same as what I listen to on a daily basis. I've Roon (PC), Audirvana (Mac), JRiver MC24 (PC & Mac), Tidal Premium and of course Youtube.
> 
> My current setup now is Audirvana Plus 3 > Yggy > GOTL (Gec B36, 6 x GE 6BX7) > HD800. My daily fix.
> 
> It's good to see Joe and you talking about the GOTL because she is such a great sounding amp in the right setup.



It’s not mine, it’s on long term loan for evaluation. I may have to buy one though.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> It’s not mine, it’s on long term loan for evaluation. I may have to buy one though.



I thought as much.  I will be upgrading Yggy when the queue becomes more reasonable. I'm hoping the brick and mortar shop where I bought Yggy in Sydney from, will have the capability to do the upgrade instead of sending it to USA. Not that I'm in a hurry because Yggy v1 sounds superb to me.... and it's almost one year old. How time flies...


----------



## wazzupi

Unrelated hd800 question do you guys use a different ear pads ? Which cable do you recommend? i need a xlr cable. 

I got my hd800 for 500 bucks on letgo yesterday i had to clean it up good but no physical damage and its working like new.


----------



## wazzupi

Once i get my glenn otl amp im thinking of getting the new yggy.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Unrelated hd800 question do you guys use a different ear pads ? Which cable do you recommend? i need a xlr cable.
> 
> I got my hd800 for 500 bucks on letgo yesterday i had to clean it up good but no physical damage and its working like new.



Why do you need a xlr cable? Mine is a xlr cable because I was using hd800 in balance mode on my previous setup of Yggy and Rggy. The only valid reason I got an aftermarket cable is because I need one with a 1.5m length. My amp is right next to me on the desktop. That and the lure of a sexy looking cable. I have a Forza Noir HPC Mk2 cable. Did I think it sounded better than stock cable? I don't know because I never really a/b it... because I don't want to a/b everything in life.

I didn't go ahead with buying the Dekoni pads for 2 reasons. 1. HD800 will not look like a HD800 with a thick pad. Classic HD800 will always be classic looking. 2. I don't want to change one iota how this headphone sound.... except with the other gear in the chain.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Why do you need a xlr cable? Mine is a xlr cable because I was using hd800 in balance mode on my previous setup of Yggy and Rggy. The only valid reason I got an aftermarket cable is because I need one with a 1.5m length. My amp is right next to me on the desktop. That and the lure of a sexy looking cable. I have a Forza Noir HPC Mk2 cable. Did I think it sounded better than stock cable? I don't know because I never really a/b it... because I don't want to a/b everything in life.
> 
> I didn't go ahead with buying the Dekoni pads for 2 reasons. 1. HD800 will not look like a HD800 with a thick pad. Classic HD800 will always be classic looking. 2. I don't want to change one iota how this headphone sound.... except with the other gear in the chain.


My Glenn otl amp will be in xlr. I also have a similar cheaper setup with my balance ss and dac.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Once i get my glenn otl amp im thinking of getting the new yggy.



Do it. A good dac + GOTL + HD800 is a killing combo. It doesn't have to be Yggy. It could be Holo Spring L3 or Hugo 2 or Pavane Metrum but I'm partial to Yggy because ..... well Yggy is just an easier name to say out loud.  That and the fact it cost me a wallet killing AUD$3800. Yeah now that I think about it, it's the most expensive audio gear that I have .... until the next amp comes along. Then it's the end. The finale.


----------



## wazzupi

I never thought to ask but Glenn will my amp be rca or xlr in ?


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Do it. A good dac + GOTL + HD800 is a killing combo. It doesn't have to be Yggy. It could be Holo Spring L3 or Hugo 2 or Pavane Metrum but I'm partial to Yggy because ..... well Yggy is just an easier name to say out loud.  That and the fact it cost me a wallet killing AUD$3800. Yeah now that I think about it, it's the most expensive audio gear that I have .... until the next amp comes along. Then it's the end. The finale.


Hmm idk about the holo spring lvl3  arent they more expensive someone said they have sweet highs while the yggy a2 has sweet mids.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Hmm idk about the holo spring lvl3  arent they more expensive someone said they have sweet highs while the yggy a2 has sweet mids.



LOL sweet tops, sweet mids. Perhaps there will be another dac with sweet bottoms. 

Once I audition Yggy at the shop with Rggy and HD800, I like it and I bought it. So the dac is settled. I don't go lusting after another dac and try to a/c dacs because as I said, I don't a/b everything in life.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> LOL sweet tops, sweet mids. Perhaps there will be another dac with sweet bottoms.
> 
> Once I audition Yggy at the shop with Rggy and HD800, I like it and I bought it. So the dac is settled. I don't go lusting after another dac and try to a/c dacs because as I said, I don't a/b everything in life.


i liked what i heard at canjam but I didn't a/b so yggy was my choice but I still wonder if there is a better r2r dac under or same price


----------



## Hansotek

wazzupi said:


> Unrelated hd800 question do you guys use a different ear pads ? Which cable do you recommend? i need a xlr cable.
> 
> I got my hd800 for 500 bucks on letgo yesterday i had to clean it up good but no physical damage and its working like new.



IMO, the DanaCable Lazuli is a must for the HD800. The upgrade is significant and easily discernible. Fuller bass, better rumble and impact, fuller mids, better separation and layering - it’s a very noticeable difference. In my experience, the DanaCables will improve pretty much any headphone, but the ones like HD800 and Utopia that are heavy on resolution and light on body benefit the most. There is also a 30-day risk-free money back guarantee on it, if you don’t like it.... though everyone I’ve ever recommended it to has been extremely happy with theirs.


----------



## wazzupi

Hansotek said:


> IMO, the DanaCable Lazuli is a must for the HD800. The upgrade is significant and easily discernible. Fuller bass, better rumble and impact, fuller mids, better separation and layering - it’s a very noticeable difference. In my experience, the DanaCables will improve pretty much any headphone, but the ones like HD800 and Utopia that are heavy on resolution and light on body benefit the most. There is also a 30-day risk-free money back guarantee on it, if you don’t like it.... though everyone I’ve ever recommended it to has been extremely happy with theirs.


Im not interested in 650 dollar cables I did notice a nice touch when i bought my 2k and cables for the auteurs but tgat was 350 I might go for his new 200 dollar cable.

Ps that cable cost more than what I paid for the hd800


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Im not interested in 650 dollar cables I did notice a nice touch when i bought my 2k and cables for the auteurs but tgat was 350 I might go for his new 200 dollar cable.
> 
> Ps that cable cost more than what I paid for the hd800



LOL I never laugh so much in one morning. I was going to reply to Hans that I could be persuaded to try the DanaCable Lazuli if I feel the itch (and his description is very compelling) but then I saw your reply. 

Of course you're not going to get a $650 cable if you only paid $600 for the HD800.


----------



## Hansotek

wazzupi said:


> Im not interested in 650 dollar cables I did notice a nice touch when i bought my 2k and cables for the auteurs but tgat was 350 I might go for his new 200 dollar cable.
> 
> Ps that cable cost more than what I paid for the hd800



Yeah, the difference is way bigger than that. But go ahead and don’t believe me if you want, I’m just telling you because I’ve compared more than my fair share of hd800 cables. FWIW, I also feel like the Wywires Red is pretty close to it and a little less expensive. I’ve seen those used on the sale forum from time to time for $200-250, if that’s your budget.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> LOL I never laugh so much in one morning. I was going to reply to Hans that I could be persuaded to try the DanaCable Lazuli if I feel the itch (and his description is very compelling) but then I saw your reply.
> 
> Of course you're not going to get a $650 cable if you only paid $600 for the HD800.



I mean look, there’s nothing in it for me if you buy the cable or not. The only thing on the line with the recommendation is my reputation, which I wouldn’t risk on recommending an expensive cable if I didn’t believe in it. I’ve had plenty of people laugh off that recommendation. I’m not surprised or offended, really makes no difference to me. But 100% of the people who have taken it have been happy with the cable because it’s really friggin good!

The only reason I even involve myself in the conversation is because of the sheer amount of false information, snake oil, charlatanism and straight-up bad engineering that continues to plague the cable market. It gives good engineers a bad name, prevents productive conversation on a valid topic and causes good people to waste their hard-earned dollars on crap that makes no difference whatsoever.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> I mean look, there’s nothing in it for me if you buy the cable or not. The only thing on the line with the recommendation is my reputation, which I wouldn’t risk on recommending an expensive cable if I didn’t believe in it. I’ve had plenty of people laugh off that recommendation. I’m not surprised or offended, really makes no difference to me. But 100% of the people who have taken it have been happy with the cable because it’s really friggin good!
> 
> The only reason I even involve myself in the conversation is because of the sheer amount of false information, snake oil, charlatanism and straight-up bad engineering that continues to plague the cable market. It gives good engineers a bad name, prevents productive conversation on a valid topic and causes good people to waste their hard-earned dollars on crap that makes no difference whatsoever.



Don't be offended Hans. I wasn't laughing at your recommendation. I only find it funny if wazzupi were to pay $650 for the cable when he has just bought the 2nd hand HD800 for $600. 

For me since I have a brand new hd800 and it's a headphone that I like very much with GOTL, I might just go ahead and try that cable based on your recommendation.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Don't be offended Hans. I wasn't laughing at your recommendation. I only find it funny if wazzupi were to pay $650 for the cable when he has just bought the 2nd hand HD800 for $600.
> 
> For me since I have a brand new hd800 and it's a headphone that I like very much with GOTL, I might just go ahead and try that cable based on your recommendation.



Oh, I wasn’t offended or anything at all. If it came across that way, I didn’t mean for it to. It was more meant as a candid, brutally honest aside. Should have probably started with a “Hahaha” to give the right emphasis to the word “look”, as you probably read that word more forcefully than I intended, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

I also heard from @musicman59 that the DanaCable is very good and he heard it on both HD800 and Focal Utopia. I am usually skeptical about spending lots on cables but when I heard from people whom I know have extensive exposure to gear, then it gets my attention.

When auditioning the HD800 at Addicted To Audio, the salesman slap the Cardas Clear balance cable on it for me to try. That's a $1000 cable. I like what I hear but that was the first time I was auditioning Yggy, Rggy, HD800 with an expensive aftermarket cable together. It's probably everything that contributes to the lovely tone that I hear. I bought Yggy, Rggy and HD800 and left the cable behind. It's either that or I have to join the soup kitchen. 

It's all good Hans. We're on the same page.


----------



## wazzupi

Hansotek said:


> I mean look, there’s nothing in it for me if you buy the cable or not. The only thing on the line with the recommendation is my reputation, which I wouldn’t risk on recommending an expensive cable if I didn’t believe in it. I’ve had plenty of people laugh off that recommendation. I’m not surprised or offended, really makes no difference to me. But 100% of the people who have taken it have been happy with the cable because it’s really friggin good!
> 
> The only reason I even involve myself in the conversation is because of the sheer amount of false information, snake oil, charlatanism and straight-up bad engineering that continues to plague the cable market. It gives good engineers a bad name, prevents productive conversation on a valid topic and causes good people to waste their hard-earned dollars on crap that makes no difference whatsoever.


If I had the money dont get me wrong I wouldn't care and buy it. but I don't and I feel its weird to even thing about buying a cable when I didn't invest much into th headphone to begin with if I feel it needs something I might look into it but for now I'll wait for my amp/new dac before going 650 on a cable I appreciate the suggestion and I took it as a possibility later on.


----------



## whirlwind

Oh no...not the dreaded cable debate  

J/K


----------



## Hansotek

wazzupi said:


> If I had the money dont get me wrong I wouldn't care and buy it. but I don't and I feel its weird to even thing about buying a cable when I didn't invest much into th headphone to begin with if I feel it needs something I might look into it but for now I'll wait for my amp/new dac before going 650 on a cable I appreciate the suggestion and I took it as a possibility later on.



Well now that I know more about your budget range, I’ll PM you if I happen to run across any steals that I think might interest you.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Oh no...not the dreaded cable debate
> 
> J/K



Until the fat lady sings, you are going to consider every aspect of your audio chain to improve it. 

Next I'll be looking for a piece of exotic wood to put my amp on for isolation and damping.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> Well now that I know more about your budget range, I’ll PM you if I happen to run across any steals that I think might interest you.



I have a great idea. I will sell wazzupi my Forza cable and I will buy the DanaCable. It's a win win.


----------



## UntilThen

Just to get you excited Wazzupi, this is my Forza cable - the black one. The copper one is for my LCD-2f.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Until the fat lady sings, you are going to consider every aspect of your audio chain to improve it.
> 
> Next I'll be looking for a piece of exotic wood to put my amp on for isolation and damping.




I was just joking...I own some 3rd party cables.

Was just making a funny about cables, in all my years here they have been some of the most entertaining reads for me...seems the topic just throws peoples minds in every direction.

I am in no way saying cables can't make a difference.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes Joe I totally understand you're making a funny just as I was. HiFi and Head-Fi will get expensive when you allow it to. Last year was an exhilarating year for me both in joy and spending money, trying to do both the stereo and headphone setups. So much so I'm still using the back ordinary power cable that came with Yggdrasil. At one stage I was still using the red and black rca cable. Horrors of horrors. 

Slowly. Takes time. It's a great hobby. Gears that makes music sound like you want to hear it all the time. In the process though there will be buying and selling.

Elise and Euforia has come and gone. Primaluna has come and gone. Ragnarok has come and gone. Voicebox super monitor speakers has come.... and will probably be gone because I just prefer the tower Axis LS88 speakers.

All that remains will stay. Head-Fi wise I couldn't be happier with Yggy > GOTL > HD800.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh well speak too soon. I am about to buy a mint condition Auralic Aries.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Oh well speak too soon. I am about to buy a mint condition Auralic Aries.


Lol wut


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 2, 2018)

I remember this picture which I took last year at Addicted To Audio when I was auditioning Auralic Aries, Yggy, Rggy and HD800. Told myself I will get the Aries someday. Well I have just bought it and will be selling the Auralic Aries Mini - the younger brother.

My purchase. https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/247462-auralic-aries-le-gieseler-lpsu/

Might give up vinyl. Don't use it enough to justify it. Hummm selling the Rega RP8 will be a tough one. I got it at a super price. Might sleep on it.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> I remember this picture which I took last year at Addicted To Audio when I was auditioning Auralic Aries, Yggy, Rggy and HD800. Told myself I will get the Aries someday. Well I have just bought it and will be selling the Auralic Aries Mini - the younger brother.
> 
> My purchase. https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/247462-auralic-aries-le-gieseler-lpsu/
> 
> Might give up vinyl. Don't use it enough to justify it. Hummm selling the Rega RP8 will be a tough one. I got it at a super price. Might sleep on it.


Argh if i sell my sonica+iha6 ill have 1.1k or 1.2k plus 100 from my audeze cable <.< but if i buy a used Yggy its still 1500-1600 gawd why so expensive i think imma just sell my iha for now see how much i can save up til im ready to sell the sonica. If i didn't buy like 900 dollars worth of tubes >.<.


----------



## UntilThen

Jebuz Wazzupi, don't do as I do because I will lead you deeper into the rabbit hole. No more tubes ok? In fact sell some. Just keep the TS bgrp, Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6bx7 or 6bl7. Don't need the rest. They are redundant. 

Now if Yggy is out of reach, buy Gumby. That's Gungnir Multibit. FWIW, I set out to buy Gumby at A2A but when I got there I was told Gumby is temporary out of stock but Yggy was there and waiting. Just my luck or lack of it. One listen to Yggy and I was hooked. So do yourself a favour. Buy Gumby and don't listen to Yggy. If Jason likes it, it can't be that bad.


----------



## wazzupi (Jun 2, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Jebuz Wazzupi, don't do as I do because I will lead you deeper into the rabbit hole. No more tubes ok? In fact sell some. Just keep the TS bgrp, Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6bx7 or 6bl7. Don't need the rest. They are redundant.
> 
> Now if Yggy is out of reach, buy Gumby. That's Gungnir Multibit. FWIW, I set out to buy Gumby at A2A but when I got there I was told Gumby is temporary out of stock but Yggy was there and waiting. Just my luck or lack of it. One listen to Yggy and I was hooked. So do yourself a favour. Buy Gumby and don't listen to Yggy. If Jason likes it, it can't be that bad.


I don't like the Gumby so I'll keep looking and keep saving lol 
Ps ive already heard the yggy cant unhear it haha.

Ill keep my favorite and sell the rest of tubes. XD


----------



## UntilThen

Take your time. I was using NAD 1050 dac for 2 years before stepping up to Yggdrasil. But what a step up that was.


----------



## Hansotek

wazzupi said:


> Hmm idk about the holo spring lvl3  arent they more expensive someone said they have sweet highs while the yggy a2 has sweet mids.



I forgot, I was going to respond to this earlier. IMO, the Holo Spring DAC has much more air, openness and transparency compared to Yggy. The comment about the treble is on point - Holo Spring is absolutely among the best. I haven’t compared to the Yggy Analog 2 board yet, so I couldn’t tell you about fine details and nuances like depth layering and stuff, but I’m absolutely sure the treble on the Holo is still better and the air and transparency are still a step ahead. The mids on the Yggy Analog 2 are great though, better than the Analog 1 board from memory... I always felt A1 was a little dry, A2 sounds more organic/natural/real to me. I’ve found myself replaying a ton of songs as soon as they are done - which tells me I’m connecting with it emotionally in a special way.

The great thing is, Glenn’s design is going to really let the special aspects of either one of these DACs shine, so I think you’ll be tremendously happy either way, if you end up getting one of these.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Oh well speak too soon. I am about to buy a mint condition Auralic Aries.



Guys,I think we need to do an intervention on UT.....


----------



## wazzupi

Monsterzero said:


> Guys,I think we need to do an intervention on UT.....


Lol someone intervene my tube buying addiction.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Guys,I think we need to do an intervention on UT.....



Too late I bought it but I can sell it to you.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Oh well speak too soon. I am about to buy a mint condition Auralic Aries.




Ha ha....congrats.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Joe. Now I need another DAC for the study so I can move Yggy to the lounge stereo system with the Auralic Aries... or the other way round. Which ever DAC goes where, to be decided.

I'm going to buy a mint condition AudioLab m-dac. This one's really mint and is an amp/dac and comes with a remote. And of course the Audiolab name.


----------



## whirlwind

Well, congrats again.

You make me feel like I have my budget under control ....as long as you still have your wife, house, car...all is good


----------



## UntilThen

Well I have to check if they are still there. Last I check it was. 

When I look up all I see is stars. The roof's gone but all's good. It's more airy now and the sound stage has open up.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow I love this song. I want to go for a drive now with the sunroof open and my hands in the air like this girl driver. Very catchy song through my Sennheiser !


----------



## UntilThen

Auralic Aries Mini sold for the same price I bought 9 months ago. Which means I get to use for 9 months free. What genius. 

I love this buying and selling.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Well I have to check if they are still there. Last I check it was.
> 
> When I look up all I see is stars. The roof's gone but all's good. It's more airy now and the sound stage has open up.



All this talk about buying things is contagious... I just bought a new pair of shoes!


----------



## gibosi

Hansotek said:


> I forgot, I was going to respond to this earlier. IMO, the Holo Spring DAC has much more air, openness and transparency compared to Yggy. The comment about the treble is on point - Holo Spring is absolutely among the best. I haven’t compared to the Yggy Analog 2 board yet, so I couldn’t tell you about fine details and nuances like depth layering and stuff, but I’m absolutely sure the treble on the Holo is still better and the air and transparency are still a step ahead. The mids on the Yggy Analog 2 are great though, better than the Analog 1 board from memory... I always felt A1 was a little dry, A2 sounds more organic/natural/real to me. I’ve found myself replaying a ton of songs as soon as they are done - which tells me I’m connecting with it emotionally in a special way.
> 
> The great thing is, Glenn’s design is going to really let the special aspects of either one of these DACs shine, so I think you’ll be tremendously happy either way, if you end up getting one of these.



Have you had a chance to compare either of these with the new R2R 7 DAC from Audio-gd?


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Wow I love this song. I want to go for a drive now with the sunroof open and my hands in the air like this girl driver. Very catchy song through my Sennheiser !




Thats pretty good. Reminds me of the Aussie band The Jezebels


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Have you had a chance to compare either of these with the new R2R 7 DAC from Audio-gd?




I would guess that this dac has to be right up there, but I have never heard one, hopefully @Hansotek has had the privledge


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Jebuz Wazzupi, don't do as I do because I will lead you deeper into the rabbit hole. No more tubes ok? In fact sell some. Just keep the TS bgrp, Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6bx7 or 6bl7. Don't need the rest. They are redundant.



Completely agree with this assessment in the GOTL. 6BL7/Syl 6SN7W for me, will switch to the TS 12SN7 BGRP if I want a warmer, deeper, more lush presentation.

Thinking seriously of selling my 5998's and other "near boutique" 6AS7G's and 6070's...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Guys,I think we need to do an intervention on UT.....



But on the other hand - UT never complains that his wallet is screaming mad at 'em...

So I am happy to let him spend like a rich man, while I watch from the sidelines.
I am glad I get to hear about his adventures with expensive gear...


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> All this talk about buying things is contagious... I just bought a new pair of shoes!



Make sure it test good and it's a matching pair !


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I would guess that this dac has to be right up there, but I have never heard one, hopefully @Hansotek has had the privledge



Add the Terminator to comparison. I would love to hear all 4 in an extended evaluation.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Make sure it test good and it's a matching pair !


Hi UT,
I once saw in a shoe store a pair of 7 and 71/2 advertised as a "near pair." Reminds me of many of my tube pairs......lol


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Completely agree with this assessment in the GOTL. 6BL7/Syl 6SN7W for me, will switch to the TS 12SN7 BGRP if I want a warmer, deeper, more lush presentation.
> 
> Thinking seriously of selling my 5998's and other "near boutique" 6AS7G's and 6070's...



Hello JV, how will I off load my Gec 6as7g now? Nobody will want it now.


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> I once saw in a shoe store a pair of 7 and 71/2 advertised as a "near pair." Reminds me of many of my tube pairs......lol


Lol


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> But on the other hand - UT never complains that his wallet is screaming mad at 'em...
> 
> So I am happy to let him spend like a rich man, while I watch from the sidelines.
> I am glad I get to hear about his adventures with expensive gear...



What wallet? Never heard of it.

Hey JV would you like to buy a minty Rega RP8? I will throw in Dark Side of The Moon.


----------



## Hansotek

whirlwind said:


> I would guess that this dac has to be right up there, but I have never heard one, hopefully @Hansotek has had the privledge



I have not, they don’t do any of the North American audio shows. I really enjoyed the DAC-19 with the old DSP firmware for a long time though, that thing hit really hard. I still have it, but there’s just no room on the audio desk right now. I believe Currawong gave that one a good long review on his YouTube channel though. 

The Metrum DACs also hit really hard - I remember feeling my jaw absolutely rattle to the bass line on “Fast Car” by Tracy Chapman on the Auteur and Milo Reference with one of the Metrum DACs @zach915m  had at the ZMF table at RMAF. I forget the model... if you ask him, he should know.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Hello JV, how will I off load my Gec 6as7g now? Nobody will want it now.


Hi UT and CF,
ATM there are only two individual GEC 6AS7 tubes for sale on eBay for around $260 each incl shipping.
The market value is $500-600/pair and up - should be no problem selling them. On the other hand, they may appreciate more in value than the stock market.....


----------



## UntilThen

That must be the Metrum Pavane. Where dacs are concerned, people will have their pet love. When I bought my HiFi shelf, the seller has a very nice stereo system and he insist his Bricasti M1 is the best. And others will insist it's the Dave.

I could only afford Yggdrasil but I also think it's the best.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> What wallet? Never heard of it.
> 
> Hey JV would you like to buy a minty Rega RP8? I will throw in Dark Side of The Moon.



No thank you sir...not really a Rega fan.  Will stick with my 80's Harman Kardon tables that lift the arm and stop the motor at the end of play.

Speaking of tables...just had a very special session with Joe Walsh's "The Confessor" LP....man o man...does not get better that that one


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT and CF,
> ATM there are only two individual GEC 6AS7 tubes for sale on eBay for around $260 each incl shipping.
> The market value is $500-600/pair and up - should be no problem selling them. On the other hand, they may appreciate more in value than the stock market.....



Yeah I know. These tubes still have a very strong demand. When I posted the Gec 6as7g and GeC 6080 on the 'Show your tubes' thread in our local Aussie forum, I had offers from people wanting to buy them. My pairs are matched to 99.999%


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> No thank you sir...not really a Rega fan.  Will stick with my 80's Harman Kardon tables that lift the arm and stop the motor at the end of play.
> 
> Speaking of tables...just had a very special session with Joe Walsh's "The Confessor" LP....man o man...does not get better that that one



I still have the Denon DP300f that starts and stops automatically. It's in the garage. I feel so guilty. It's a gift from the wife and has done less than 100 hours. Maybe I should bring it into the house again.


----------



## UntilThen

Back on topic. Subconsciously I get up every night just to listen to some tracks. This tone I'm hearing is so good. Never in the 3 years have I been so smitten with a single setup but Yggdrasil > GOTL > HD800 is nigh perfect for my ears. This should have been the swan song for me. It's as good as it gets.... for me at least.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Back on topic. Subconsciously I get up every night just to listen to some tracks. This tone I'm hearing is so good. Never in the 3 years have I been so smitten with a single setup but Yggdrasil > GOTL > HD800 is nigh perfect for my ears. This should have been the swan song for me. It's as good as it gets.... for me at least.



Subconsciously?  Your not aware that your getting up to listen to some tracks?


----------



## wazzupi

JazzVinyl said:


> Subconsciously?  Your not aware that your getting up to listen to some tracks?


Maybe he meant spontaneously, religiously, invariably etc ?


----------



## leftside

If anyone is seriously thinking of selling your GEC 6AS7G's then please PM me. 

I think the US stock market has gone up more than tubes the last few years. Especially an index ETF such as QQQ that tracks the Nasdaq. 

If you guys like tubes (which I think you do) then you should at least try and listen to a Lampizator DAC.


----------



## UntilThen

Don't disturb me here. I'm subconsciously getting myself ready to go to work.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Leftside let me think over it at work. I might pm you regarding my golden GEC 6as7g and GEC 6080. Both with very clear labels, original boxes and mint tubes of less than 50 hours.


----------



## leftside (Jun 4, 2018)

Surprised there haven't been more reports on here of rolling the 12AU7's or 12AX7's with the GOTL. These are some of my favorite tubes, perhaps more so than the 6SN7. I use the 12AX7's in my amps and preamp and the 12AU7 in one of my DACs. And obviously I'm looking forward to using them in my upcoming GOTL.

Anyway, here are my thoughts of rolling in some of the 12AU7's in my DAC this afternoon that I purchased recently from another guy in Canada. Perhaps I'll get the same results with the GOTL?

I noticed a few subtle differences with the tubes. All were very, very good. I think these are my favorites in order, even though I went back and forth between the top 3 a few times. Music listened to was a mixture of heavy electronic music, UK 80's/EDM/electronic and blues.

1) Amperex Copenhagen long welded plates, D getter, K6B, 1953. Wide sound stage. Beautiful sound. Seem to be a sound inbetween the two Mullards and Valvo and Philips from below. I just seemed to be able to pick out the detail with these tubes slightly better than the others.

2) Mullard 1953 CV491 long welded black plate. Super bass and lovely warm tone, but perhaps not as wide sound stage as the Amperex or Valvo?

3) Mullard 1955 Mitchum, long grey plates, square getter, goal post K61K51. Warm intoxicating sound without being muddy at all

4) Valvo/Siemens CV491 3 mica gold pins, long plates, halo getter. Super clear sound, but I prefer the slightly "heavier" sound of the above 3. Lovely detail. Similar to the Philips from below?

5) Philips/Amperex 6085 pinched waist, D getter A9D 1959. Super nice tube. Lower power (so increased the volume). Bit smoother than the teles from below.

6) My previous Telefunken ribbed smooth plates. Still good, but felt a bit lightweight compared to the others.

Here's a good track to test the bass Obviously the FLAC version and not the YouTube version though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9ET8aL-OWA


PS - this is the first day it's rained in Vancouver for weeks, so I had a chance for a full day of music listening rather than mountain biking  Also a  good chance to let a few bruises and grazes heal properly.


----------



## leftside

And when testing female vocals, I tend to listen to tracks from this fine lady. This is her latest track. I do also sometimes "listen" and not "test" though....  In reality it's much more the former than the latter, though when you have a bunch of new tubes arrive it's fun to compare.


----------



## Phantaminum

leftside said:


> Surprised there haven't been more reports on here of rolling the 12AU7's or 12AX7's with the GOTL. These are some of my favorite tubes, perhaps more so than the 6SN7. I use the 12AX7's in my amps and preamp and the 12AU7 in one of my DACs. And obviously I'm looking forward to using them in my upcoming GOTL.
> 
> Anyway, here are my thoughts of rolling in some of the 12AU7's in my DAC this afternoon that I purchased recently from another guy in Canada. Perhaps I'll get the same results with the GOTL?
> 
> ...



Nice review Leftside! I love the Amperex/Phillips house sound. I’m thinking of purchasing a single K6B and possibly an e80cc single as well. To try them out.


----------



## leftside

Very nice. Grab them if you can. The slightly later Mitcham plant K61 is also a very nice tube.

I also run 4 early Amperex welded plate 12AT7s in my amps (two in each amp)


----------



## UntilThen

Leftside the rolling of small tubes will be left to your charge. I rolled just 2. Then I stop because I find small tubes just.... small. I mean physically it's fiddly to hold and besides the gold plated adapter just doesn't look good. 

But I agree that the 2 tubes I rolled show me there's great sonics in those mighty mouse.

So I will sit back and watch for your impressions.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> the gold plated adapter just doesn't look good.


I'll do the following


----------



## UntilThen

Well the wheels of change will keep spinning for me. For my 2nd dac, I've decided that the Audiolab M-DAC just ain't good enough for me.  Now I can expect M-DAC fans to come after me with daggers. 

So out with the Audiolab M-DAC and in with NAD M51, an old favourite. It may be old but it's dripping with technology. Well what do I care about technology. The proof is in the pudding. I mean how will it sound. Hoping to find out this Queen's birthday long weekend.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Well the wheels of change will keep spinning for me. For my 2nd dac, I've decided that the Audiolab M-DAC just ain't good enough for me.  Now I can expect M-DAC fans to come after me with daggers.
> 
> So out with the Audiolab M-DAC and in with NAD M51, an old favourite. It may be old but it's dripping with technology. Well what do I care about technology. The proof is in the pudding. I mean how will it sound. Hoping to find out this Queen's birthday long weekend.



Would like to hear your thoughts on the NAD


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 4, 2018)

Ross when I'm done with my 6 months evaluation, I'll sell the M51 to you. In the spirit of brotherhood, I believe in sharing. 

I got it at a shoe string budget ! Still minty and glinty.

I'm going to connect it as follows:-

Auralic Aries Le > NAD M51 > GOTL > HD800

and

Auralic Aries Le > NAD M51 > Redgum Rgi120ENR > Axis LS88


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Well the wheels of change will keep spinning for me. For my 2nd dac, I've decided that the Audiolab M-DAC just ain't good enough for me.  Now I can expect M-DAC fans to come after me with daggers.
> 
> So out with the Audiolab M-DAC and in with NAD M51, an old favourite. It may be old but it's dripping with technology. Well what do I care about technology. The proof is in the pudding. I mean how will it sound. Hoping to find out this Queen's birthday long weekend.


When does the madness end !!


----------



## DaemonSire

UntilThen said:


> In the last 2 months, I've come to the conclusion that the HD800 and LCD-2f sounds best on the GOTL, amongst 4 of my headphones. Eikon and Atticus sounds beautiful on Ragnarok and I love them a lot but on GOTL, I'm hearing some hiss, noise or hum. On HD800 and LCD-2f, it's silent. This is using the same tubes (my fav drivers) and 6 x 6bx7gt. Why it is that way with Eikon and Atticus, I haven't got a clue. I tested this over 2 months. So finally I sold off E & A on the weekend and I got inundated with replies from people who wants to buy it. I have never had an easier time selling any of my gear. It is astonishing.
> 
> So now I'm left with 2 very contrasting headphones and I've to say that I'm very happy because they sound phenomenal with GOTL.
> 
> ...



That's really disappointing to hear about the GOTL and the Atticus/Eikon.  My end game was going to be the GOTL with the Atticus and HD800.

Really sad to hear about the noise with the Atticus.  I might be back at the drawing board again.


----------



## Redmetal1897

Would someone who has a similar set up to the one below be able to provide me with a rough idea of the dimensions/ weight of the OTL? Thanks!

US transformer
six output tube sockets
two C3g sockets


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Ross when I'm done with my 6 months evaluation, I'll sell the M51 to you. In the spirit of brotherhood, I believe in sharing.
> 
> I got it at a shoe string budget ! Still minty and glinty.
> 
> ...



Hahahaha..i've read good things about the M51 but i think i'm pretty much fine where i'm at now with 4 Dacs!


----------



## 2359glenn

Daanish said:


> Would someone who has a similar set up to the one below be able to provide me with a rough idea of the dimensions/ weight of the OTL? Thanks!
> 
> US transformer
> six output tube sockets
> two C3g sockets



320mm wide
293mm deep
Weight about 10 Kg or 22lbs


----------



## Redmetal1897

2359glenn said:


> 320mm wide
> 293mm deep
> Weight about 10 Kg or 22lbs



Thank you sir!


----------



## wazzupi (Jun 4, 2018)

@2359glenn hello, quick question i know the amps aren't balanced internally but is it possible to have dual 3 pin xlr input over rca ?


----------



## 2359glenn

wazzupi said:


> @2359glenn hello, quick question i know the amps aren't balanced internally but is it possible to have dual 3 pin xlr input over rca ?



Yes


----------



## UntilThen

DaemonSire said:


> That's really disappointing to hear about the GOTL and the Atticus/Eikon.  My end game was going to be the GOTL with the Atticus and HD800.
> 
> Really sad to hear about the noise with the Atticus.  I might be back at the drawing board again.



I need to clarify. We're not talking about hum / noise on an unbearable scale but very very soft and when no music is playing. This only evident when using 6 x 6bx7gt. With 2 x 6as7 / 5998 or 2 x Cetron 6336b, all 4 headphones are silent. However I am solely running 6 x 6bx7gt now because after 6 months, these are my preferred power tubes without any doubt. That doesn't mean the 5998, Gec 6as7g / 6080 aren't good on GOTL. They have similar goosebumps producing abilities on a different flavour. As has been noted by almost all who have sampled GOTL, almost all tubes sounded good on it.

So .... perhaps in someone's else setup, Eikon and Atticus will be as silent as a lamb with GOTL. These are mighty fine sounding headphones. In fact the HD800 and Eikon were vying for top spot on my wall of fame in GOTL where musicality and enjoyment is concerned. So I'm looking at @Monsterzero . He has Atticus and I would like to know what his experience would be.


----------



## wazzupi

Ive been thinking of getting the metrum pavane.... Any thoughts or suggestions the major improvements from the yggy analog 2 is stopping me tbh.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> When does the madness end !!



What I plan for my HiFi and Head-Fi setups are all very logical. It's quite evident that my music listening sessions are skewed towards digital source. Over a period of almost a year, my vinyl playback has not been used much and I know that would be the pattern as time goes on. I'm really thinking of getting rid of the turntable and accessories. Vinyl fans would be horrified. You will see some people going from digital to vinyl and some from vinyl to digital. I might keep the TT still. Not something I want to get rid of quickly because when I spin an LP, something magical happens. 

Also I've been carrying Yggy to and fro, from study and the lounge, to be used on the head-fi and lounge system. Having a 2nd dac is the obvious solution. Another thing is it's a bad past time to visit the stereonet classified because you will see really good stuff being sold for a very good price, from owners who have lost their love and their itch. That's how I pick up the Rega, Auralic Aries and now the M51.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> What I plan for my HiFi and Head-Fi setups are all very logical. It's quite evident that my music listening sessions are skewed towards digital source. Over a period of almost a year, my vinyl playback has not been used much and I know that would be the pattern as time goes on. I'm really thinking of getting rid of the turntable and accessories. Vinyl fans would be horrified. You will see some people going from digital to vinyl and some from vinyl to digital. I might keep the TT still. Not something I want to get rid of quickly because when I spin an LP, something magical happens.
> 
> Also I've been carrying Yggy to and fro, from study and the lounge, to be used on the head-fi and lounge system. Having a 2nd dac is the obvious solution. Another thing is it's a bad past time to visit the stereonet classified because you will see really good stuff being sold for a very good price, from owners who have lost their love and their itch. That's how I pick up the Rega, Auralic Aries and now the M51.


I was joking but thank you for the story behind the madness haha.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Ive been thinking of getting the metrum pavane.... Any thoughts or suggestions the major improvements from the yggy analog 2 is stopping me tbh.



When you're buying gear at that price point, you should get an audition first. Metrum Pavane cost a lot more than Yggdrasil. When you get to that level, the dacs are all very capable technically. What you need to do is to pick one that will have synergy with your setup. Some dacs are more neutral. Others have a warmer presentation. It's the same way with phono preamps and cartridges. Different flavours. Same with food. Will you have pizza for dinner tonight or curry? Haha... the choices in life.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Hahahaha..i've read good things about the M51 but i think i'm pretty much fine where i'm at now with 4 Dacs!



Huh what you have now are just earth, wind, fire and water. You need the 5th element for combustion and take off. So don't stop at 4 !!!


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> When you're buying gear at that price point, you should get an audition first. Metrum Pavane cost a lot more than Yggdrasil. When you get to that level, the dacs are all very capable technically. What you need to do is to pick one that will have synergy with your setup. Some dacs are more neutral. Others have a warmer presentation. It's the same way with phono preamps and cartridges. Different flavours. Same with food. Will you have pizza for dinner tonight or curry? Haha... the choices in life.


I read earphiles review and i like his recommendations as everything i take them with a pinch of salt. He couldn't justify pavane over Yggy that was with analog 1 it like to see more reviews or differences between 1 and 2.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Hahahaha..i've read good things about the M51



You read right ! I love layman's review. It has a different flavour from the professional reviewers. Here's this guy's impression of the M51 compared to the Audiolab M-DAC and even the Lampi DAC. 

Now I'm curious how the M51 would stack up against Yggdrasil. It shouldn't stack up at all because if it does, I'll take Yggy and feed it to the sharks.
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/40613-nad-m51-listening-impressions/


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> You read right ! I love layman's review. It has a different flavour from the professional reviewers. Here's this guy's impression of the M51 compared to the Audiolab M-DAC and even the Lampi DAC.
> 
> Now I'm curious how the M51 would stack up against Yggdrasil. It shouldn't stack up at all because if it does, I'll take Yggy and feed it to the sharks.
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/40613-nad-m51-listening-impressions/


----------



## wazzupi (Jun 4, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> You read right ! I love layman's review. It has a different flavour from the professional reviewers. Here's this guy's impression of the M51 compared to the Audiolab M-DAC and even the Lampi DAC.
> 
> Now I'm curious how the M51 would stack up against Yggdrasil. It shouldn't stack up at all because if it does, I'll take Yggy and feed it to the sharks.
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/40613-nad-m51-listening-impressions/


Nvm...


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 4, 2018)

I'm saying nothing because the unit will be sent off to me today and I have not heard it yet. Besides I bought it used and in mint condition for $730 aussie dollars, not american dollars. Both Auralic Aries Le and M51 are inbound to me and I hope to get it before this long weekend. Looking forward to it.

This is what I bought.
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/to...-m51-dac-silver/?tab=comments#comment-3912872


----------



## UntilThen

For some reason M51 is much cheaper in Australia than in USA. I don't know why. Also NAD has stopped manufacturing M51. It was the flavour 5 years ago and in the world of dacs, that's a long time.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> For some reason M51 is much cheaper in Australia than in USA. I don't know why. Also NAD has stopped manufacturing M51. It was the flavour 5 years ago and in the world of dacs, that's a long time.


You should get me one and ship it over I'll paypal you lol.


----------



## Monsterzero

DaemonSire said:


> Really sad to hear about the noise with the Atticus. I might be back at the drawing board again.





UntilThen said:


> So I'm looking at @Monsterzero . He has Atticus and I would like to know what his experience would be.



I will respectfully defer to @Hansotek as I dont actually have my GOTL quite yet. In addition he is much more ahead of the game than I when it comes to tubes. I believe I saw him post in the A&E thread that the noise culprit isnt the GOTL,rather certain tubes,but I will let him explain.


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 4, 2018)

DaemonSire said:


> That's really disappointing to hear about the GOTL and the Atticus/Eikon.  My end game was going to be the GOTL with the Atticus and HD800.
> 
> Really sad to hear about the noise with the Atticus.  I might be back at the drawing board again.



I would not worry about it...if it is a bit noisy with six 6BL7....just use four tubes instead of six or just switch power tubes...not worries at all.
I use the Atticus all the time with no issues....my HD800 has been seeing very little head time since the arrival of the Atticus.

You will be fine.


----------



## UntilThen

Hans doesn't use 6 x 6bx7. He use 4. Besides for the same tubes, hd800 and lcd2f were quiet but a & e were not. It is just more sensitive.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> You read right ! I love layman's review. It has a different flavour from the professional reviewers. Here's this guy's impression of the M51 compared to the Audiolab M-DAC and even the Lampi DAC.
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/40613-nad-m51-listening-impressions/


He seems to like the older Lampi Level 4. That DAC can be had on the used market these days for much cheaper than the original retail price. I still argue that the best value for money DAC from Lampizator is the Euforia. You'll just need to use something like Roon or JRiver to upsample to DSD. The DSD engine is the same as the one used in the higher end DACs. Whilst I've still got the cover off mine I thought I'd post a pic.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Hans doesn't use 6 x 6bx7. He use 4. Besides for the same tubes, hd800 and lcd2f were quiet but a & e were not. It is just more sensitive.



I always get noise with 6BX7 and even more with 6BL7. I believe my amp has more gain, since it just has the two power tube slots (and it’s also one of the oldest GOTLs).

With 2 or 4 GOOD 6080s, the Atticus (and pretty much any headphone) will have a quiet background. If background noise is your main concern, I’d go that route.

Regardless of noise, I still prefer the sound of the 4 RCA 6BX7s with the Atticus because the tone, dynamics and staging are absolutely excellent. I can’t hear the noise once the music starts (unlike some other more expensive amps), so that’s still my preferred roll. With the 6BL7s, I do get some noticeable noise in quieter passages, which I find bothersome. While I think the bl7s do some things better, I barely use them due to the hum.

I haven’t tried the Centron 6336B with the Atticus yet, but my pair is fairly quiet. I can roll them in and see how they sound.

With my RCA 6AS7Gs, I get a little bit of high pitched hum sometimes, which is a little annoying, but I payed like $20 for them, so what did I expect? I’m sure there are better pairs of those out there. They still sound really good, and I can get past the noise considering what I paid. I assume the higher end 6AS7Gs like the GECs and Chathams are probably dead quiet like my GEC and Chatham 6080s.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 4, 2018)

Which is what I said in my first post on E & A experience with GOTL.

With 6as7, 5998 or 6336, the ZMF headphones are quiet and lovely. Same quietness with HD800 and LCD 2f.

With 6 x 6bx7 / 6bl7, E & A exhibit some noise. With the same 6 x 6bx7 / 6bl7, hd800 and lcd2f are quiet.

Observe this over a period of 2 months.

I much prefer 6 x 6bx7 over 4 x 6bx7. Difference is not subtle. It's audible. Play 'Nothing Else Matters' and you will hear the impact with six like everything else matters.


----------



## UntilThen

Leftside, that review was done in 2012 so no doubt his experience was with an older Lampi 4 dac.

M51 was quite well regarded then but time marches on. I am sure it would be eclipse by newer and more capable dacs.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> *I much prefer 6 x 6bx7 over 4 x 6bx7. Difference is not subtle. It's audible. Play 'Nothing Else Matters' and you will hear the impact with six like everything else matters.*



And I would submit that if you run 4 x 6AS7 over 2 x 6AS7, the difference in impact is also not subtle....


----------



## leftside

Hansotek said:


> I always get noise with 6BX7 and even more with 6BL7. I believe my amp has more gain, since it just has the two power tube slots (and it’s also one of the oldest GOTLs).
> 
> Regardless of noise, I still prefer the sound of the 4 RCA 6BX7s with the Atticus because the tone, dynamics and staging are absolutely excellent. I can’t hear the noise once the music starts (unlike some other more expensive amps), so that’s still my preferred roll. With the 6BL7s, I do get some noticeable noise in quieter passages, which I find bothersome. While I think the bl7s do some things better, I barely use them due to the hum.


As you say, with quieter passages a slight noise can be an annoyance. I must have purchased over 50 6BL7's and 6BX7's attempting to get matching year and construction quads. Some have been noisy, some are dead quiet. I've thrown out the less than perfect ones. The only noise I'll tolerate from my tubes is a slight crackling or popping as the tube(s) warm up. And in fact I quite like that sound. As long as it goes away after a minute or so 

For sure tube gear will generate more noise than solid state if you crank the amp/preamp/whatever to ear bleeding levels, but at normal (or even house shaking) listening levels you shouldn't hear tube noise. Some tube amps are more susceptible to noise with various tubes and various tube combos. I know it took me awhile to find good tube combos with previous amps. 

Also, for some reason that I admit I don't quite understand, some headphones play better with some amps than others. For example, the LCD4 are absolutely dead quiet (with no music playing) even at ear bleeding levels with the 300B (and even in my "problem" power noise room), yet with the LCD3 I can hear the tiniest of hum in my "problem" power noise room (dead quiet in other rooms in the house). Ah the joys of tubes  Soooooooo worth it though when you find that perfect combo of tubes and gear.....


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> And I would submit that if you run 4 x 6AS7 over 2 x 6AS7, the difference in impact is also not subtle....



Oh yes 4 x 5998 will make Hercules weak.

When I did the comparison between GOTL and Woo WA5, I mention both amps have great impact. Those 300b tubes in full song will bounce your liver. Now GOTL with 4 x 5998 is not for the faint hearted. Similarly GOTL with 6 x 6BX7 is impactful but is more incisive in tone.

This is what I like about GOTL with six cylinders or quad 6as7 / 5998. It will rock your headphones either gently or with tornado force.


----------



## Althalus

Hello all.

I'm busy planning a new amp (otl). Glenn did ask me if I need an upgrade for the coupling capacitors....
I did search the forum but didn't find anything usefull regarding this subject. 
So do I need an upgrade here or can I stay with the standard ones and save the money for tubes? 

Althalus


----------



## UntilThen

Althalus said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I'm busy planning a new amp (otl). Glenn did ask me if I need an upgrade for the coupling capacitors....
> I did search the forum but didn't find anything usefull regarding this subject.
> ...



I'll make it simple for you. If spending a couple of hundred more isn't an issue, then ask for the Jupiters copper caps. Otherwise the cheap Russian military paper in oil caps used in my OTL sounds like a million bucks.

Still can't decide? Well then save the couple of hundred and go with the Russian. You wouldn't feel like you're missing anything. If anything, you'll be wondering how this OTL amp can sound so amazing with the cheapest of caps.


----------



## Althalus

UntilThen said:


> Still can't decide? Well then save the couple of hundred and go with the Russian. You wouldn't feel like you're missing anything. If anything, you'll be wondering how this OTL amp can sound so amazing with the cheapest of caps.



UT 
Thanks alot
I'm going to spend that money on tubes .


----------



## Althalus

My ideas for the new otl amp so far. 

rectifier and plugin hexfred. 
Lundahl transformer (I like it quiet) 
6 output tube sockets
Input socket + Multi voltage switch 
Alps blue velvet pot. 

Question .
Are the C3g input sockets standard for the OTL or an option? 

Recomendations always welcome. 
Althalus


----------



## UntilThen

Althalus said:


> UT
> Thanks alot
> I'm going to spend that money on tubes .



Ah here I'll be very specific in recommending tubes for you but that would be robbing you of the joy of experimentation. On hindsight though, if I was to start all over again, these are the tubes I would buy:-

Buy one or two of these lovely drivers. Not that I'll be paid commission for this recommendation but these are really very nice drivers for GOTL at very reasonable price. I'm surprised they are not snapped up yet.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6sl7-tubes-for-sale.880964/

Buy 6 x 6bx7gt or 6 x 6BL7gt or gta


----------



## UntilThen

Althalus said:


> My ideas for the new otl amp so far.
> 
> rectifier and plugin hexfred.
> Lundahl transformer (I like it quiet)
> ...



A wise and excellent configuration. I approve. 

Nothing is standard and everything is optional on the OTL amp. If you wanted flashing lights that pulse in timing with your music, you can request that too. But that will cost you !!!

c3g? Hmm even though I don't use c3g much now but I would still have those sockets there because the occasional use of c3g and Tung Sol 5998 power tubes would be a re-creation of the lady in red moment, where you'll feel how you could ever live without that experience.


----------



## Althalus

UT, I see 

You don't use c3g anymore, but sometimes you want to go back....

But actually you say, I can skip it because I don't have c3g tubes yet . The one driver socket with multivolt switch gives me acces to al the desired combinations.

 Or do I misunderstand you and do I need the c3g sockets? Even when I will use it seldom.


----------



## lukeap69

Althalus said:


> My ideas for the new otl amp so far.
> 
> rectifier and plugin hexfred.
> Lundahl transformer (I like it quiet)
> ...


I suggest you get the same exact configuration as Ulysses (Untilthen's amp).


----------



## Althalus

lukeap69 said:


> I suggest you get the same exact configuration as Ulysses (Untilthen's amp).



Arnold, I can understand and maybe it's the best option, but I'm somehow drawn to the rectifier tube. I however take the plugin hexfred too. So I can go in the direction of Ulysses if necessary .


----------



## UntilThen

Ok Athalus, I'm not being very specific with regards to c3g. Let me phrase it again. However this is my opinion. I can't speak for everyone. 

_C3g is nice to have but is not a necessity. _

Would I have c3g again if I were to order the OTL amp again? The answer is in @lukeap69 's reply. The answer is YES. I will have Ulysses as it is.


----------



## UntilThen

Althalus said:


> Arnold, I can understand and maybe it's the best option, but I'm somehow drawn to the rectifier tube. I however take the plugin hexfred too. So I can go in the direction of Ulysses if necessary .



Oh this is fine too. You can have Ulysses but with tube rectification instead of hexfred ss rectification built in. That way you can use plug in hexfred as well.


----------



## Hansotek

Althalus said:


> UT, I see
> 
> You don't use c3g anymore, but sometimes you want to go back....
> 
> ...



I’d get the C3G sockets. I use those about 50% of the time and a Mullard ECC31 about 50% of the time. The C3Gs are very transparent with nice layering and a beautiful, emotionally conducive sound. I basically use those whenever I want a neutral driver and the Mullard when I want a warmer sound.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> I’d get the C3G sockets. I use those about 50% of the time and a Mullard ECC31 about 50% of the time. The C3Gs are very transparent with nice layering and a beautiful, emotionally conducive sound. I basically use those whenever I want a neutral driver and the Mullard when I want a warmer sound.



Yes Hans hits it on the head. When ordering the OTL amp you want to have all the options available.

C3g and ECC31 is a very good example of different ends of the tone spectrum. C3g is transparent and dynamic. ECC31 leans towards warm and romantic.

In between you have all the lovely tones of some of the most superb 6sn7s and variants. By variants I mean B36, ECC33, ECC35.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Althalus said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I'm busy planning a new amp (otl). Glenn did ask me if I need an upgrade for the coupling capacitors....
> I did search the forum but didn't find anything usefull regarding this subject.
> ...


The regular caps Glenn uses are good caps.  I wouldn't sweat this decision too much.  Component level customization is something you pursue only after you've gotten pretty deep into the rabbit hole.


----------



## Althalus

Thanks everyone for the input so far.

My otl amp is slowly progressing. 

rectifier and plugin hexfred. 
Lundahl transformer (I like it quiet) 
6 output tube sockets
Input socket + Multi voltage switch 
C3g sockets .
Alps blue velvet pot (standard).
And I use the standard caps. 

What else do I need to think about?


----------



## rnros

Althalus said:


> My ideas for the new otl amp so far.
> 
> rectifier and plugin hexfred.
> Lundahl transformer (I like it quiet)
> ...



I also agree with the recommendations already offered.
Which means, what you have listed plus the C3g. It's a really fine tube, still easy to find in true NOS condition at a reasonable price.
True you won't know until you hear it, but at the least, it will be one of the finer tubes you have for comparison.
Since synergy with headphones is important, as you acquire different headphones, your preferences may change.
My GOTL is similar, no regrets. Still amazed. And, I use and appreciate all of the options.


----------



## rnros

Althalus said:


> Thanks everyone for the input so far.
> 
> What else do I need to think about?



Tubes.


----------



## mordy

Hi A,
I ordered mine with RCA jacks out so that the GOTL can be used as a preamplifier.


----------



## whirlwind

Hansotek said:


> I’d get the C3G sockets. I use those about 50% of the time and a Mullard ECC31 about 50% of the time. The C3Gs are very transparent with nice layering and a beautiful, emotionally conducive sound. I basically use those whenever I want a neutral driver and the Mullard when I want a warmer sound.



I agree with the transparency and the impact of the C3g tubes...my favorite drivers


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> The regular caps Glenn uses are good caps.  I wouldn't sweat this decision too much.  Component level customization is something you pursue only after you've gotten pretty deep into the rabbit hole.



Those old school Sprague paper in oil caps were very nice....the vitamin Q's were pretty special and much sought after for those types of caps.


----------



## UntilThen

Althalus said:


> What else do I need to think about?



You need to think about buying this Holo Spring Level 4 but don't think too long.....
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/247666-fs-holo-audio-spring-dac-~-level-4-wild-stage-edition/


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> Those old school Sprague paper in oil caps were very nice....the vitamin Q's were pretty special and much sought after for those types of caps.


I was referring to the Soviet PIOs, but the Spragues are supposed to be good too.  I've never personally heard the VitQ's so I can only go by reputation.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> You need to think about buying this Holo Spring Level 4 but don't think too long.....
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/247666-fs-holo-audio-spring-dac-~-level-4-wild-stage-edition/



Oh man, you will give

@Althalus sticker shock!

These are the upgrades over the L3 if interested

AudioNote Top Model Trans-280 Pure Silver digital isolation transformer(FOR AES USE ONLY) - HUGH improvement over ordinary pulse transformer on digital signal receive.
+AC input filter with Jensen Ceramic Tube Cap (TOP MODEL of Jensen) 
+ Xsymphony Classic 801 Pure Silver Wire IEC power supply connection
+ Direct soldering with HIGH QUALITY solder (Ag).


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm still surprised by how many people advocate the C3g on the OTL.  It's a very fine tube to be sure, but unless you pair it exclusively with 6AS7/6080 tubes the gain of the amp just becomes unreasonably high.  You are looking at a gain of, what, 400 when running the 6BX7 behind it?  That's way too much.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Oh man, you will give
> 
> @Althalus sticker shock!
> 
> ...



I'm tempted to get this dac too but I can't sell the family puppy.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> I'm tempted to get this dac too but I can't sell the family puppy.


Sell the ugliest child ! Jk jk


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I'm tempted to get this dac too but I can't sell the family puppy.



We lost our family dog last fall.

She was 14 years old and a dog we rescued from the pound.

Man do I miss her...we I retire I am going to get another for sure.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'm still surprised by how many people advocate the C3g on the OTL.  It's a very fine tube to be sure, but unless you pair it exclusively with 6AS7/6080 tubes the gain of the amp just becomes unreasonably high.  You are looking at a gain of, what, 400 when running the 6BX7 behind it?  That's way too much.



I'm inclined to agree with you. That's why I run my c3g with a pair of 5998 now.

C3g with 4 x 6bx7 is a bit better but the noise floor is still higher than with c3g and 2 x 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Sell the ugliest child ! Jk jk



Well according to my wife, the ugliest child is me.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Well according to my wife, the ugliest child is me.


Ya gotta go !!


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'm still surprised by how many people advocate the C3g on the OTL.  It's a very fine tube to be sure, but unless you pair it exclusively with 6AS7/6080 tubes the gain of the amp just becomes unreasonably high.  You are looking at a gain of, what, 400 when running the 6BX7 behind it?  That's way too much.



For sure, on paper, the numbers don't add up.... But C3g with 6BX7 is one of my favorite configurations. And in fact, in my amp, a pair of 5998's with the bias switch "on" are just as noisy. But then, I have the stock American-made transformer and the perfectly black and noiseless background that those with Lundahls are accustomed to is simply unobtainable ....


----------



## Althalus

UntilThen said:


> You need to think about buying this Holo Spring Level 4 but don't think too long.....
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/247666-fs-holo-audio-spring-dac-~-level-4-wild-stage-edition/



No!
Just a little bit out of budget, but just. Only the last zero.
Next months I will start searching for tubes. Pity, I noticed that 6h13c costs now $25,- a piece (only one supplier). But I don't worry, plenty of other options available for this amp. 
And they are all mentioned already, I just need to scroll back.


----------



## lukeap69

Althalus said:


> No!
> Just a little bit out of budget, but just. Only the last zero.
> Next months I will start searching for tubes. Pity, I noticed that 6h13c costs now $25,- a piece (only one supplier). But I don't worry, plenty of other options available for this amp.
> And they are all mentioned already, I just need to scroll back.


Just search all Untilthen's post and you will see all tubes that the OTL can possibly accept! Almost.


----------



## UntilThen

I am about to sell off my Russian tubes. I have 4 Fotons ribbed plates 1955. 6 x Svetlana 6h13c. They will cost no more than what's on ebay. I will probably make it less.

I have too many tubes. So I won't hoard them. I rather they go to someone who will use them.

So pm me if you're interested. These were bought new from ebay and I have not even use them.

Many 6sn7s, RCA 6as7, Mullard 6080, Tung Sol 7236. I am culling the tubes. Keeping only my favourites.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> We lost our family dog last fall.
> 
> She was 14 years old and a dog we rescued from the pound.
> 
> Man do I miss her...we I retire I am going to get another for sure.



Dogs are a man's best friend. This is Finn, my assistant tube roller. He has a sharp ear.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Dogs are a man's best friend. This is Finn, my assistant tube roller. He has a sharp ear.



Finn is a real cutie!

My son named our dog "Squirt"
He named her that because when she was a puppy she would get so excited when someone come to the house, she would pee by their feet.


----------



## Oskari

Althalus said:


> Next months I will start searching for tubes. Pity, I noticed that 6h13c costs now $25,- a piece (only one supplier).


Not true. Search for 6N13S as well.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> Dogs are a man's best friend. This is Finn, my assistant tube roller. He has a sharp ear.



Hi Finn,

Meet Dewy, she will be 13yrs old this July.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> Meet Dewy, she will be 13yrs old this July.



Haha I log on and thought I had join a dog forum.


----------



## UntilThen

As much as I would love to talk dogs, I'm very excited with what I'm hearing now. It's explosive. ! After months and years of listening to music in my study with the good ole PC as source, I managed to connect Auralic Aries Le after a few botched attempts. 

First song, 'Pain' by War On Drugs and OMG. How can changing source make so much difference ! I hear everything and anything. This is exciting now. It's seriously good. Micro details are swimming like a school of fishes. Vocals has that magical voicing and bass is as tight as a pair of skinny jeans. High frequencies shone like the sun but there's no sibilance, no uncomfortable peaks. It's like listening to vinyl on my Rega RP8. So excited was I that I couldn't put what I hear coherently in words.

Connection:-

Auralic Aries Le > streaming Tidal HiFi > AES connection into Yggdrasil > RCA connection to GOTL > 1/4 jack to HD800. 

Noise floor as black and silent as dead of night. The song just leap out of my headphone and sparkle in front of me. This is going to be a very long night.

That's my iPad controlling the song selection on Tidal via the Auralic's Lightning DS apps.


----------



## wazzupi (Jun 6, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> As much as I would love to talk dogs, I'm very excited with what I'm hearing now. It's explosive. ! After months and years of listening to music in my study with the good ole PC as source, I managed to connect Auralic Aries Le after a few botched attempts.
> 
> First song, 'Pain' by War On Drugs and OMG. How can changing source make so much difference ! I hear everything and anything. This is exciting now. It's seriously good. Micro details are swimming like a school of fishes. Vocals has that magical voicing and bass is as tight as a pair of skinny jeans. High frequencies shone like the sun but there's no sibilance, no uncomfortable peaks. It's like listening to vinyl on my Rega RP8. So excited was I that I couldn't put what I hear coherently in words.
> 
> ...


I like how the auralic looks , I'm still deciding between onyx and Yggy, for me its between when I'll receive the unit (yggy is backordered til the 29th) and the 6 month payment option without credit required or credit card (which i don't own a credit card anymore) swaying me to the onyx and id like to hear the metrum signature sound.


----------



## musicman59

I have been catching up on this thread and I see @UntilThen is in the buying-selling mood.. 
So UT I have one of my Bricasti M1 SE DACs (have 2) at a very attractive price for you! or if somebody else is interested (I am upgrading to the M21).


----------



## UntilThen

Mr Musicman, my transactions are but a fraction of what you're churning through. Bricasti is too rich for my blood. 

Really loving Auralic Aries into Yggdrasil via AES connection. Will try it with the speaker system this weekend. The last 3 hours have been pure musical bliss.


----------



## musicman59

UntilThen said:


> Mr Musicman, my transactions are but a fraction of what you're churning through. Bricasti is too rich for my blood.
> 
> Really loving Auralic Aries into Yggdrasil via AES connection. Will try it with the speaker system this weekend. The last 3 hours have been pure musical bliss.


I don't think at less than half the list price would be too bad..


----------



## UntilThen

musicman59 said:


> I don't think at less than half the list price would be too bad..



Less than half of the list price is still more than a new Yggdrasil.   Anyway congrats in advance on the Bricasti M21. Switchable between ladder dac and delta sigma. It featured in the Bricasti room at the AXPONA 2018 show. At $19000.

https://audiobacon.net/2018/04/21/axpona-2018-show-report-day-3/3/


----------



## musicman59

UntilThen said:


> Less than half of the list price is still more than a new Yggdrasil.   Anyway congrats in advance on the Bricasti M21. Switchable between ladder dac and delta sigma. It featured in the Bricasti room at the AXPONA 2018 show. At $19000.
> 
> https://audiobacon.net/2018/04/21/axpona-2018-show-report-day-3/3/


The $19,000 is the M21 Platinum series which is just the different finish. The Classic series is $15,000.


----------



## raybone0566

Guys just listed my el3n amp If anyone wants to avoid the wait. Fair price w/ plenty tubes


----------



## Sound Trooper

raybone0566 said:


> Guys just listed my el3n amp If anyone wants to avoid the wait. Fair price w/ plenty tubes



GLWS!

I noticed that the smaller chassis looks really different from mine.


----------



## UntilThen

Mullard ECC35 and RCA 5691 arrived today. These are pre-loved tubes so no doubt well burn in. Thanks LJ for these tubes. They are in pristine condition.

There was a time when I was worried I only had one good driver to use in GOTL. That is the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. Not anymore. With the arrival of ECC33, GecB36 and Tung Sol bgrp and now these 2 tubes, the driver slot is well and truly taken care of. Now listening to ECC35 and the contender for the best driver will be a very hotly contested position. I cannot categorically say which is the best driver but this ECC35 sure comes very close to it. Stunning sonics. I haven't tried the RCA 5691 yet.

Mullard ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7gt


----------



## whirlwind

raybone0566 said:


> Guys just listed my el3n amp If anyone wants to avoid the wait. Fair price w/ plenty tubes



That sold fast.


----------



## UntilThen

Not surprising at that price and there's a demand for Glenn's amp.


----------



## whirlwind

Yeah, they always sell fast.


----------



## raybone0566

Zach at  ZMF is the new owner


----------



## wazzupi (Jun 7, 2018)

raybone0566 said:


> Zach at  ZMF is the new owner


No way really ? Love it ! Zach is such an awesome dude ! Im glad i support zmf.


----------



## Phantaminum

raybone0566 said:


> Zach at  ZMF is the new owner



I can just imagine the slam from drum kicks and the bass on his Atticus. Those headphones are a beast at that and paired with the GEL3N...*whistles*


----------



## 2359glenn

raybone0566 said:


> Zach at  ZMF is the new owner



He should have waited until the new sockets were put in.


----------



## wazzupi

2359glenn said:


> He should have waited until the new sockets were put in.


Zach's a good guy I met him at canjam you should hit him up for a chat. he loves this kind of stuff !


----------



## Xcalibur255

What does he do/sell?


----------



## wazzupi

Xcalibur255 said:


> What does he do/sell?


Zach ? he is the owner of ZMF headphones. Atticus auteur eikon ori etc


----------



## UntilThen

Zach is the owner / director of ZMF headphones.  http://www.zmfheadphones.com/

An awesome guy to talk to. Professional, friendly, helpful and answers your messages very promptly. He told me in past conversations that he would like to have a Glenn's amp, despite the fact he already have many tube amps.

I've had 2 headphones, Eikon and Atticus that are really nice sounding headphones. The Auteur is finding a lot of happy owners and good reviews.

I'm glad he finally got a good Glenn amp.


----------



## mordy

Here is a question that came up that I have not seen mentioned before:
Certain tubes can be used both as driver and power tubes. Could the placement of the tube in the amp effect the burn in process, since even the same tubes tends to run hotter as power tubes than driver tubes?
Anybody?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Okay, thank you.  It's always good to know what people are about when they are name dropped.  I stopped keeping track of the headphone world after buying the Ether so I'm out of the loop.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Zach is the owner / director of ZMF headphones.  http://www.zmfheadphones.com/
> 
> An awesome guy to talk to. Professional, friendly, helpful and answers your messages very promptly. He told me in past conversations that he would like to have a Glenn's amp, despite the fact he already have many tube amps.
> 
> ...


I am one of those auteur owners i bought it on the spot at NYC canjam. I had to shove all my dirty clothes in my carry on , which was a sports bag, to fit it in my luggage, thankfully they allowed me to check it in for free at the gate so it didnt stink up the plane haha.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Zach is the owner / director of ZMF headphones.  http://www.zmfheadphones.com/
> 
> An awesome guy to talk to. Professional, friendly, helpful and answers your messages very promptly. He told me in past conversations that he would like to have a Glenn's amp, despite the fact he already have many tube amps.
> 
> ...



I IM’d Zach and tipped him off as soon as I saw the post. I brought the GOTL over to his house a few months ago, so it didn’t take a lot of convincing, lol. He had already sent Raybone an offer before I was done explaining the difference between 2 tube mode and 4 tube mode, hahaha!


----------



## wazzupi

Hansotek said:


> I IM’d Zach and tipped him off as soon as I saw the post. I brought the GOTL over to his house a few months ago, so it didn’t take a lot of convincing, lol. He had already sent Raybone an offer before I was done explaining the difference between 2 tube mode and 4 tube mode, hahaha!


Lol good job !


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 7, 2018)

Sometimes when you've found a headphone you really like, it's best to just stop looking and going to meets and shows because it's at such meets, I get to hear the Focal Utopia, Abyss. Special they are, so is the price.

However having heard all these headphones, I still find the Sennheiser HD800 with Glenn's OTL amp a combination I'd be glad to live with. It just sound so right to my ears. As usual your mileage may vary. For what it's worth, the Eikon is the most magical to my ears of all the headphones I've owned. Selling it would probably be one of the few regrets I've had in my head-fi journey but there's always the Auteur to look to later.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> I IM’d Zach and tipped him off as soon as I saw the post. I brought the GOTL over to his house a few months ago, so it didn’t take a lot of convincing, lol. He had already sent Raybone an offer before I was done explaining the difference between 2 tube mode and 4 tube mode, hahaha!



Well done Hans. 

Now if Zach were to take the EL3N amp to camjam(s) where he's exhibiting his ZMF headphones, that will really open Glenn's amps to the world.


----------



## 2359glenn

wazzupi said:


> Zach's a good guy I met him at canjam you should hit him up for a chat. he loves this kind of stuff !



I have the sockets for that amp purchased them for the old owner.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Sometimes when you've found a headphone you really like, it's best to just stop looking and going to meets and shows because it's at such meets, I get to hear the Focal Utopia, Abyss. Special they are, so is the price.
> 
> However having heard all these headphones, I still find the Sennheiser HD800 with Glenn's OTL amp a combination I'd be glad to live with. It just sound so right to my ears. As usual your mileage may vary. For what it's worth, the Eikon is the most magical to my ears of all the headphones I've owned. Selling it would probably be one of the few regrets I've had in my head-fi journey but there's always the Auteur to look to later.


If the eikon is your most magical headphone god bless you when you hear the auteurs.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> If the eikon is your most magical headphone god bless you when you hear the auteurs.



One day, I'll remember Steve Jobs and go back to my old iPod and white ear bud. Then I'll climb Mt Everest and when I get to the top, I'll listen to 'What a Wonderful World' by Louis Armstrong.


----------



## UntilThen

And that is the song I'm listening to as I try on the ECC35 and RCA 5691..... and I started singing 'what wonderful tubes'.


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> I have the sockets for that amp purchased them for the old owner.



I let him know. Raybone might have already told him too.


----------



## Hansotek

wazzupi said:


> If the eikon is your most magical headphone god bless you when you hear the auteurs.



^This. Auteur and the GOTL have totally messed up my review schedule because I don’t want to listen to anything else!


----------



## UntilThen

You should have seen how many people responded to my advert to sell the Eikon and Atticus in the classified. Some offered me more than what I ask for. It's like 'shut up and take my money'. 

You have to agree these look gorgeous as well as great sounding. A success story I would say. Now I just have to find some Australian Redgum wood to have the Auteur made in.


----------



## UntilThen

This will always be one of my fav pictures. I will have to frame it and put it on the wall.


----------



## wazzupi

Hansotek said:


> ^This. Auteur and the GOTL have totally messed up my review schedule because I don’t want to listen to anything else!


This doesn't help my patience ! Lol


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> You should have seen how many people responded to my advert to sell the Eikon and Atticus in the classified. Some offered me more than what I ask for. It's like 'shut up and take my money'.
> 
> You have to agree these look gorgeous as well as great sounding. A success story I would say. Now I just have to find some Australian Redgum wood to have the Auteur made in.


You're going on an adventure, to chop down some trees ?


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> ^This. Auteur and the GOTL have totally messed up my review schedule because I don’t want to listen to anything else!



Too right. Now we have to sell Zach the OTL amp because I am affirmative that this tube amp is a success story. GOTL needs to be at trade shows.


----------



## whirlwind

raybone0566 said:


> Zach at  ZMF is the new owner



So cool. 

 Zach is a great guy and a pleasure to do business with.

Congrats  Zach.


----------



## whirlwind

Hansotek said:


> ^This. Auteur and the GOTL have totally messed up my review schedule because I don’t want to listen to anything else!



Ha.

I listen to it for about 10 minutes on Glenns OTL.....just great stuff.

The owner of the  Auteur wanted to hear Glenn's amp...so he stopped by....was a wonderful day


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Too right. Now we have to sell Zach the OTL amp because I am affirmative that this tube amp is a success story. GOTL needs to be at trade shows.



As Glenn builds these amps by himself, one-by-one, there is a very real limit to how many amps he can build in a given period of time...   If the demand increases to the point that he has to add personnel and perhaps rent additional space, this may or may not be something he is prepared to do....  So we might want to consult with him first before trying to drum up considerably more demand....

Glenn?


----------



## Sound Trooper

Woah! It's nice to hear that Zach is a new owner of a GEL3N. I bet he is gonna love the Auteur + GEL3N combo.

Vanity pic of my cocobolo Auteur:


----------



## zach915m

I made the team!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> As Glenn builds these amps by himself, one-by-one, there is a very real limit to how many amps he can build in a given period of time...   If the demand increases to the point that he has to add personnel and perhaps rent additional space, this may or may not be something he is prepared to do....  So we might want to consult with him first before trying to drum up considerably more demand....
> 
> Glenn?



I am not trying to drum up sales but to get more to experience what the Glenn OTL amp sounds.

Specialist boutique tube amp makers will always have a steady stream of orders. As long as it doesn't get out of hand.


----------



## UntilThen

zach915m said:


> I made the team!!!!!



Welcome and we look forward to your impressions of the EL3N amp when you have sufficient time with it.


----------



## pippen99

Zach are you bringing it to St Louis Saturday?


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> With the arrival of ECC33, GecB36 and Tung Sol bgrp and now these 2 tubes, the driver slot is well and truly taken care of. Now listening to ECC35 and the contender for the best driver will be a very hotly contested position. I cannot categorically say which is the best driver but this ECC35 sure comes very close to it.


Agreed! Just the ECC32 to go now with the 6SL7/6SN7 varieties. 

This is an enabler group. I need to find a support group. I'm so far off the wagon with tube rolling again with 12ax7 and 12at7 in my amps and preamps. I'm in a deep, deep dark rabbit hole. My excuse? Well, I can also use the 12ax7s in the upcoming GOTL! Seriously, it's been a lot of fun. I'll stop soon. I promise.


----------



## leftside

And this evening in Canada, the senate passed bill C45 with only minor amendments. This means cannabis will be legal in Canada very soon. Then we can all legally roll something else when listening to music  Now cannabis is legal on the entire west coast from Alaska to California.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> Woah! It's nice to hear that Zach is a new owner of a GEL3N. I bet he is gonna love the Auteur + GEL3N combo.
> 
> Vanity pic of my cocobolo Auteur:



I look forward to listening to Auteur on the GEL3N in August, Sam.


----------



## wazzupi (Jun 8, 2018)

zach915m said:


> I made the team!!!!!


Lol


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> I look forward to listening to Auteur on the GEL3N in August, Sam.



No problem Matt. I think the HD58X will also be with me by then.


----------



## zach915m

pippen99 said:


> Zach are you bringing it to St Louis Saturday?



Won't have it yet unfortunately - going to have it sent to Glenn to get the latest sockets in first.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jun 8, 2018)

Will be shipping Monsterzero's amp today and will be changing the sockets on Joe's amp this weekend.
Joe you should have your amp back mid week.


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 8, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Will be shipping Monsterzero's amp today and will be changing the sockets on Joe's amp this weekend.
> Joe you should have your amp back mid week.




Thanks for the update Glenn.

I will clear a spot on the desk  

I will look forward to it.

Congrats to Monsterzero, I look forward to hearing your first impressions.


----------



## 2359glenn

Zach is sending the EL3N to me to have the sockets changed. I already bought the sockets for that amp to change them when I bought your sockets.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Will be shipping Monsterzero's amp today



My Atticus thanks you Glenn! Cant wait!


----------



## wazzupi (Jun 8, 2018)

To the left Oreo to the right is wazzupi !

Soo to get back on topic !!


----------



## Phantaminum

Yes! Dog pics. Here’s my contribution:

Our Border Collie Spotty:


The half Dauschund / half Jack Russel Kubo:


----------



## Monsterzero

The other day I asked my wife and stepson what would I grab if there were to be a fire in my home. My son said "your headphones". My wife said "your girls". She had the right answer.

My Thai Soi Dog,Shy,rescued off the streets of Thailand. Wild born dog.





My heart and soul, ChooChoo,rescued off the streets of Buenos Aires. Took her in short term during a horrific hail storm....Eight years later shes still with me


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Monster Zero you must be getting excited on your OTL coming very soon. I am on the lise for my OTL and can;t wait to use with  my Teak Auteurs . Whirlwind and CMTE got me intriduce to Glenn;s great work . I started purchasing a few tubes for the delivery of my new baby. 

Nick looking dogs that let them be part of are lives.


----------



## 2359glenn

How about a old Beagle in her doggie bed


----------



## wazzupi

2359glenn said:


> How about a old Beagle in her doggie bed


Touche Glenn !!


----------



## Hansotek

I’m so pumped for @Monsterzero to get his amp!!!


----------



## wazzupi

Hansotek said:


> I’m so pumped for @Monsterzero to get his amp!!!


I think this whole thread following is pumped ! great peeps !


----------



## UntilThen

Great peeps indeed. Lovely pictures of dogs and orchids !

Congrats Monster. It's been a while since you enquired here about the OTL amp. Well you are about to get it. Whilst everyone would have notice yours dogs in the picture, I noticed the orchids. This is one of my few surviving plants from a hobby many years ago.


----------



## Xcalibur255

zach915m said:


> I made the team!!!!!


Welcome.


----------



## UntilThen

NAD M51 sounding great with GOTL. Amazing clarity and details. Having been so accustomed with Yggdrasil, I find M51 just as enjoyable feeding GOTL and HD800.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Agreed! Just the ECC32 to go now with the 6SL7/6SN7 varieties.



My tubes buying stops here. From here on, it will be left to others and you to show your tubes in GOTL. Not going to get the ECC32 because if the ECC31 is a close cousin, then that's good enough for me.

On the other hand, I think the ECC35 is really special. Much more so than ECC33 to my ears. Perhaps it's the much higher gain but it's more than gain that I heard. So it's fitting that I stop at ECC35.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 8, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Great peeps indeed. Lovely pictures of dogs and orchids !
> 
> Congrats Monster. It's been a while since you enquired here about the OTL amp. Well you are about to get it. Whilst everyone would have notice yours dogs in the picture, I noticed the orchids. This is one of my few surviving plants from a hobby many years ago.



Thanks UT! I used to grow orchids when I lived in Thailand,which is where that photo was taken. Shy lives up to her name so shes quite camera shy so not any recent pics of her. Unfortunately orchids dont grow too well in New York. 

You and Hansotek were the main motivators to get a GOTL,so thanks for the inspiration.


----------



## UntilThen

Orchids might not grow too well in New York but Camjams do. It's a pity they don't hold Camjam in Sydney. They even have it in the country of my birth Singapore. This head-fi thingy sure brings people together. We were talking in La Figaro 339 thread sometime ago. Now we are here.


----------



## wazzupi

I ordered the onyx !


----------



## UntilThen

I must be behind the times. What the onyx?


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> I must be behind the times. What the onyx?


Oh metrum acoustics onyx with the payment plan no credit check required lolz


----------



## felix3650

This thread is really getting exciting! Even Zach's onboard! Yay


----------



## wazzupi

@zach915m what do you think of the Metrum onyx dac vs pavane lvl3 ?


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Orchids might not grow too well in New York but Camjams do. It's a pity they don't hold Camjam in Sydney. They even have it in the country of my birth Singapore. This head-fi thingy sure brings people together. We were talking in La Figaro 339 thread sometime ago. Now we are here.



You may not have CanJams, but you do have all those lovely tall, blonde Australian women. I think we’re more than even.


----------



## wazzupi

Hansotek said:


> You may not have CanJams, but you do have all those lovely tall, blonde Australian women. I think we’re more than even.


Kangaroos ?

Ps bad joke


----------



## zach915m

2359glenn said:


> How about a old Beagle in her doggie bed



Oh man - now that I know you have a Beagle Glenn I will have to get my Beagle posing with your amp.  She's a oldy too, 8 years old!



Hansotek said:


> I’m so pumped for @Monsterzero to get his amp!!!



YEahhhhhhhhhhgffhghs!!!!!!  



wazzupi said:


> @zach915m what do you think of the Metrum onyx dac vs pavane lvl3 ?



I love them both but use the Onyx as my go-to DAC.  They remind me a little of the EAD stuff from the 90's but a little smoother and more refined.  The Pavane mainly has a little space, weight and black-background over the Onyx, but the Onyx is easily 90-95% of what the Pavane is if not more.  On some tracks I prefer the slightly more forward mids of the Onyx vs the Pavane as well.  They are both great.


----------



## whirlwind

Hansotek said:


> I’m so pumped for @Monsterzero to get his amp!!!



Me too, especially since he owns the Atticus.



Love all of these dog pictures also....I will have to find one of Squirt to post.


----------



## 2359glenn

zach915m said:


> Oh man - now that I know you have a Beagle Glenn I will have to get my Beagle posing with your amp.  She's a oldy too, 8 year
> 
> Cant wait for Pix


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> How about a old Beagle in her doggie bed



Once I retire, then we are going to get another dog.

I am thinking a beagle is the dog  we will get.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Oh metrum acoustics onyx with the payment plan no credit check required lolz



Ah see I am indeed behind the times. I have just read the review on Jade and Onyx. They have Pavane pedigree. Well done. Now send the Onyx to me so I can do a 3 way shoot between Yggdrasil, M51 and Onyx.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> You may not have CanJams, but you do have all those lovely tall, blonde Australian women. I think we’re more than even.



Now that you've put it this way I feel much better. As a matter of fact, I regularly go running on the beach with Elle Macpherson. I need a photo shoot of her and GOTL together.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Now that you've put it this way I feel much better. As a matter of fact, I regularly go running on the beach with Elle Macpherson. I need a photo shoot of her and GOTL together.




Ha!

If you pull that off get the damn photo in high rez...I need a new wallpaper!


----------



## UntilThen

Ok Joe so you need a new wallpaper. Today I'll move GOTL and Aries to the HiFi rack in the lounge. I'll set up everything properly and get my pooch to sit in front of it for a photo shoot and for a lovely day of music. Sorry a pooch is all I can get now. I can't afford the fees of a super model.

And tomorrow, 2 friends are coming over for a mini audio get together. It will be a fun filled long weekend and they will get a chance to listen to Elle Macpherson... I mean GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

I need to sing the praise of this driver one more time. This is truly a super driver. Not too bright, not too warm, just right. Treble extension, low frequencies extension, midrange supremacy, soundstage ideal width, height and depth and a killer tone. It get 6 stars out of 5 from me.

Look at the very elaborate internal construction of the ECC35. The ECC33 looks identical to it but I find the ECC35 just an atom better sounding and at this level an atom makes a difference.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Once I retire, then we are going to get another dog.
> 
> I am thinking a beagle is the dog  we will get.



They are nice dogs but don't think they are wimpy. About 8 years ago I came home from work somebody was trying to break in the house.
Not with Sassy the beagle in there she went right after the guy he came running from the house when I got home.
He won't try my house again. The police done nothing when I called them.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn, you should have call the GOTL - Sassy ! Beautiful name.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn, you should have call the GOTL - Sassy ! Beautiful name.



How about BB  beautiful beagle .


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> How about BB  beautiful beagle .



Alright we finally have a name from you, so it's official. However BB by itself is only an acronym.

So we will call your OTL amp as Bbeagle.


----------



## UntilThen

The EL tubes have arrived but not all of it. 4 more on the way. But this project is on hold until I hear Sam's EL3N in Singapore.

Very old boxes. Flaps falling apart but I've never seen such new pristine looking tubes. There are the best specimens ever.


 

2 x Telefunken EL11, 2 x Philips Miniwatt EL11 (not the same shape... what the spez !!!), 1 x Philips Miniwatt EL12, 2 x Telefunken EL12 Spez.


----------



## leftside

Tried out the Telefunken C3g's tonight. Honestly didn't think I'd hear much of a difference over the Siemens or Lorenz. It's not often I hear too much of a difference with tubes with all the moving parts (DAC + tubes, preamp + tubes, amp + tubes, headphones), but when I do it's a pleasant surprise. The sound definitely seemed to open up a little with the Telefunkens. Worth a try. Thanks to @gibosi for first mentioning.


----------



## gibosi

Glad you like them. Of course, the OTL is a very different amp, but with the Cossor 53KU and Tung-Sol 6BX7, these old, embossed Telefunkens are pretty special.


----------



## Sound Trooper

I started out by looking for a cheap OTL amp (ie darkvoice 336se) and somehow I ended up specc-ing and OTL from Glenn. It now looks very likely that I'll be a GOTL owner by August (depending on Glenn's schedule).

I'm in no hurry whatever so as the EL3N is still very enjoyable. The EL6 tubes which I bought on ebay also arrived and I will collect it from the post office tomorrow.


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats Sam. It's a decision you won't regret. BB with ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7gt is a treat for the ears.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Congrats Sam. It's a decision you won't regret. BB with ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7gt is a treat for the ears.


Are the ecc31 and 35 similar in tonality ?


----------



## UntilThen

Nope. 35 and 33 are much better than 31 to my ears.... my preference. YMMV. 31 is much warmer and lusher and a bit relaxed on the top end. 33 and 35 is more linear and you hear a lot more of the top end and bass has superb control and not over done. They all have that classic British Mullard sound. Rich in euphony, clear as a Robin and as super model as Elle Macpherson.


----------



## UntilThen

I started off with a Darkvoice 336se and it was my 1st love with a tube amp. So I was talking merrily in the DV336se thread and one day a voice pop in and said '....Darkvoice 336se is a very bad boy because it got me to where I'm at with a EC445'. At that time, I didn't know what he was on about or what he was smoking but now I know. Start with a Darkvoice 336se and you'll make your way to the top.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Nope. 35 and 33 are much better than 31 to my ears.... my preference. YMMV. 31 is much warmer and lusher and a bit relaxed on the top end. 33 and 35 is more linear and you hear a lot more of the top end and bass has superb control and not over done. They all have that classic British Mullard sound. Rich in euphony, clear as a Robin and as super model as Elle Macpherson.


For someone with the tube collection I've built.. Which would complement my collection most ? Do i have alot of the same tube sounding tubes or does the ecc31 come as a nice change of pace vs the ecc35 ?


----------



## UntilThen

Hmmm.... let's see what you've got.

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
Tung Sol 12sn7gt black glass round plate
Tung Sol 6su7gty black glass round plate

I haven't tried the 6su7gty but I think that's special. So you really have very good tubes already. Just sit tight with those and see how you feel because those tubes will keep you up all night long like Lionel Richie would say.

and when you want more then the ECC31, 32, 33 & 35 will be there waiting for your blank cheque.


----------



## UntilThen

What's more you've a Metrum Onyx coming. That's more exciting than the sum of all those tubes. So just PM me your address because I want to pay you a visit.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Nope. 35 and 33 are much better than 31 to my ears.... my preference. YMMV. 31 is much warmer and lusher and a bit relaxed on the top end. 33 and 35 is more linear and you hear a lot more of the top end and bass has superb control and not over done. They all have that classic British Mullard sound. Rich in euphony, clear as a Robin and as super model as Elle Macpherson.



But which one is the real Margot Robbie?


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> Congrats Sam. It's a decision you won't regret. BB with ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7gt is a treat for the ears.



Thanks Matt, I have not officially placed in my order yet. Will do so once Glenn comes back with the build slot.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> But which one is the real Margot Robbie?



Ah now that's a more specific question. The real Margot Robbie is undoubtedly the ECC35.

See the seller who sold me the ECC35 has a EC Zana Duex Super or the latest model whatever you call it and she too told me the ECC35 is the fairest of them all in her collection. After 5 hours with this tube I too agree. I am ready to run the mile with Margot Robbie. Elle Macpherson all forgotten now.


----------



## Hansotek

gibosi said:


> Glad you like them. Of course, the OTL is a very different amp, but with the Cossor 53KU and Tung-Sol 6BX7, these old, embossed Telefunkens are pretty special.



I think everything is a little more special with the Cossor in tow. Rolling my 45IU tonight with the Centron 6336Bs and Siemens C3Gs. The bass is freakin unreal.


----------



## UntilThen

I haven't roll in c3g with Cetron 6336b for a long time now. Probably a month. I think I have to do that now at the expense of making the sockets more loose. However one of the 2 guys coming on Monday to my place for the mini meet is an expert solderer. So I will get him to replace my sockets at some point in time.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright let me show you how Super 9 looks like with c3g and Cetron 6336b. First of all, this is totally silent. It passed UT's silence test 100%. Secondly, c3g just sound so special in Beautiful Beagle when it's quiet. As Hans said, the bass is 'unprintable' unreal and the clarity, you will see through the smog. If you are taking a walk at dead of night, you want the c3g with you. Look I'm a details guy. I love details and c3g is the master of them all in details.

I'm listening to Sade btw. Good bass !!!


----------



## UntilThen

@Althalus  the above is the reason you want c3g sockets. The thing with c3g in Glenn's OTL amp is it's not fatiguing despite being very clear. I'm using LCD-2f now and the c3g illuminates it. This is very enjoyable.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Alright let me show you how Super 9 looks like with c3g and Cetron 6336b. First of all, this is totally silent. It passed UT's silence test 100%. Secondly, c3g just sound so special in Beautiful Beagle when it's quiet. As Hans said, the bass is 'unprintable' unreal and the clarity, you will see through the smog. If you are taking a walk at dead of night, you want the c3g with you. Look I'm a details guy. I love details and c3g is the master of them all in details.
> 
> I'm listening to Sade btw. Good bass !!!



“Unprintable” LMAO!


----------



## Althalus

UntilThen said:


> @Althalus the above is the reason you want c3g sockets. The thing with c3g in Glenn's OTL amp is it's not fatiguing despite being very clear. I'm using LCD-2f now and the c3g illuminates it. This is very enjoyable.



I already did include the c3g sockets in my order. Just to make the amp as versatile as possible.


----------



## Althalus

I have just one question. 
I went for the otl with 6 output sockets. What are the tubes I can use here without using an adapter. People mention so many tubes in this forum that I loose track about when an adapter is needed for the output tubes and when not.
I know that the question sounds stupid but better asked than buying some tubes and when the amp arrives finding out they won't fit or worse, they do fit but the pin lay-out of the tube is different..... That would be really stupid. Not asking.


----------



## whirlwind

The C3g driver tubes seem to make all power tubes sound good.
They seem to make all around them better  

Transparency in spades

Listening with the Ori
Four Tung Sol 6BX7
Siemens C3g Drivers


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 9, 2018)

*Drivers and power tubes in GOTL*

Alright @Althalus I'll explain one more time for you or for anyone who needs to know. If you forget, just search for those words in bold in this thread or you are going to remember post #20903.

For illustration I'll post this picture again. For those OTL with tube rectification, there will be another socket to the front left.

Looking from the front of the amp to the back...
. 1st socket - this is for 6sn7 / 12sn7 / 25sn7
. 2nd & 3rd sockets - strictly for c3g (have to use in pairs)
. 4th & 5th sockets - 1st pair of power tubes
. 6th & 7th sockets - 2nd pair of power tubes
. 8th & 9th sockets - 3rd pair of power tubes



*Now what to use in those sockets:-*
*( None of these need any adapters but you can optionally use socket savers to preserve the sockets )*

*1st socket*:- 6sn7 / 12sn7 / 25sn7

. 6sn7 - 6sn7gt, 6sn7gta, 6sn7gtb ( set switch to 6.3 volts)

. 12sn7 - 12sn7gt, 12SL7gt, B36 (set switch to 12.6 volts)

. 25sn7 - 13D1, 1633 (set switch to 25.2 volts)

*2nd & 3rd sockets* - c3g (any brand)

*4th to 9th sockets* are strictly for power tubes. So what power tubes can you use?
(one of the combinations below)

. 6 x 6BX7gt or 6BL7gt / gta (use either 6BX7 or 6BL7 any brand - don't mix the type but you can mix brands - these go in 4th to 9th sockets)

. 2 x 6336, 6336a, 6336b (brands can be Tung Sol, Chatham, RCA, Raytheon or Cetron - can ONLY use one pair of these tubes - they can go into either 4th & 5th sockets or 6th & 7th sockets or 8th & 9th sockets)

. 2 x 6as7 or 6080 (they can go into either 4th & 5th sockets or 6th & 7th sockets or 8th & 9th sockets)

. 4 x 6as7 or 6080 (these go into either 1st, 2nd or 3rd power tube slots)

. 2 x Tung Sol 5998 or 7236 (same as per 2 x 6as7 or 6080)

. 4 x Tung Sol 5998 or 7236 (same as per 4 x 6as7 or 6080)

**NOTE:-* All these are for the most common type of tubes used in GOTL. Ones that are special and that needs adapters will be addressed separately.


----------



## Althalus

Thank you UT 

Post 20903 is the most usefull post.
And printable 
Thank you


----------



## UntilThen

I thought post 20873 is my most useful post.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1392#post-14292191


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Glad you like them. Of course, the OTL is a very different amp, but with the Cossor 53KU and Tung-Sol 6BX7, these old, embossed Telefunkens are pretty special.


Still looking for the embossed


----------



## UntilThen

Ever since I watch Michael Fremer's video of the CD vs Vinyl, I've become more engaged...... not with CD or Vinyl...... but the music he chose to play in it. It's the album 'Avalon' by Roxy Music. Love it and I only got to know Brian Ferry since then. Ok this is the 80s but it's good music. Good lyrics, good voice and..... in the video below I actually notice the female backup singer more.


----------



## UntilThen

In this rendition of 'Jealous Guy', Brian shows us what a voice he's got. Beautiful. Watch this... then watch John Lennon's version that came much later and tell me which is better.


----------



## UntilThen

Now John's version.


----------



## Sound Trooper

I have a confession to make..

.. I have not been using the Auteur much after I got it back. There, I said it.

I have been seduced by da bass on the TH900mk2, it just makes listening to music.. fun. Another bonus of the TH900mk2 is that it is closed (or semi closed) and it allows me to listen to my music without disturbing my wife (or my wife disturbing me). However seeing that Zach had just joined the Glenn clan, I dusted off the Auteurs, plugged in the 2K cables and fired up the EL3N. And man, what a difference from the TH900mk2. Vocals sound fantastic with the Auteurs being smooth yet detailed at the same time. Mids are slightly forward and the highs are all velvet. Even though the bass doesn’t punch as hard as the TH900mk2, it still sounds really nice and coherent. I love listening to tracks from Shawn Mendes, Jody Chiang, Lala Hsu, Adele on the Auteurs, they just seem so full of emotion. Needless to say, the EL3N matches wonderfully with the EL3N, no noise whatever so and the background is as black as night.

I can’t help but think of this, the TH900mk2 is like Thor’s hammer, it has a sense of heft about it sounds and the bass is the main selling point here. The Auteurs are on the opposite end of the spectrum. They are super smooth and present the music in a comforting way, however please don’t confuse comfortable with boring as the Auteur entertains in its own way. Vocals, mids and instruments simply sound fantastic on the Auteur.

Customary vanity pictures:


----------



## Phantaminum

Sound Infinity said:


> I have a confession to make..
> 
> .. I have not been using the Auteur much after I got it back. There, I said it.
> 
> ...



My curiosity is getting the better of me. Are you using the Auteur pads or the Eikon pads? And if you’re using the Auteur pads I’d love to read your thoughts on the perforate Eikon pads.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Phantaminum said:


> My curiosity is getting the better of me. Are you using the Auteur pads or the Eikon pads? And if you’re using the Auteur pads I’d love to read your thoughts on the perforate Eikon pads.



Hey! I have been using the stock (Auteur) pads and have not used the Eikon pads so I can't comment much on those (Eikon) pads.


----------



## Phantaminum

Sound Infinity said:


> Hey! I have been using the stock (Auteur) pads. I have not used the Eikon pads so I can't comment much on those pads.


 
I have the MTCH paired with the Aureurs while I wait on the GOTL but it’s a discernible difference when I use the Auteur pads (wider sounding and much more neutral) compared to the perforated Eikon pads which is more closed in but much warmer. 

I was thinking the pads swap could get you close to the sweet Fostex sub bass sound signature without sacrificing much.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Phantaminum said:


> I have the MTCH paired with the Aureurs while I wait on the GOTL but it’s a discernible difference when I use the Auteur pads (wider sounding and much more neutral) compared to the perforated Eikon pads which is more closed in but much warmer.
> 
> I was thinking the pads swap could get you close to the sweet Fostex sub bass sound signature without sacrificing much.



Thanks! I’ll try it this evening and report back.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Sam. This thread needs picture. Good to see others gear.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> Thanks Sam. This thread needs picture. Good to see others gear.



Always glad to share (pics of) my humble gear.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Thanks Sam. This thread needs picture. Good to see others gear.



Speaking of pictures of humble gear, one of the ear pads on my HD700 has ripped open.  
Waiting for a replacement to arrive.....


----------



## Sound Trooper

gibosi said:


> Speaking of pictures of humble gear, one of the ear pads on my HD700 has ripped open.
> Waiting for a replacement to arrive.....



Those yellow pads reminds me of an old HD414 which I had many many moons ago. Sadly I had to let those go as I was not in a financially sound position then. I still miss those headphones.


----------



## mordy

Sound Infinity said:


> Those yellow pads reminds me of an old HD414 which I had many many moons ago. Sadly I had to let those go as I was not in a financially sound position then. I still miss those headphones.


Hi SI,




I, too, had a pair of those but in white. And yes, the earpads tore. That was in the early 70's - something tells me that the current models sound better...
(If you want to relive your past, there are two for sale on eBay.)


----------



## UntilThen

This is my highest fi ever - the headphones I mean.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> This is my highest fi ever - the headphones I mean.


Monk earbuds by Venture Electronics?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Monk earbuds by Venture Electronics?



Yes and would you believe it I was listening to it powered by Ragnarok. This was a while ago.


----------



## UntilThen

However this is my pleasure man cave now. Neat and tidy as I stole someone's shelf and it sits above M51 nicely. I now have Auralic Aries Le connected to M51 via AES/EBU and PC connected to M51 via USB. All I have to do is select the source on the M51 as required. 

Neat and nice, not to mention incredible sound. Love this setup. Once in a while I'll swap out the M51 for Yggdrasil.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Yes and would you believe it I was listening to it powered by Ragnarok. This was a while ago.


Just checked their product offerings - would love to see them make a full sized headphone to compete with the best for a fraction of the price, but it does not look like it is happening.
However, I found a tube electrostatic headphone amp for Stax headphones for a mere $2650:
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=22


----------



## UntilThen

Stax is a different ball game. It's exquisite sounding and a Blue Hawaii drives the Stax SR-009 and 007 with finesse. I heard this setup in the Sydney meet 2 years ago on the Pink Panther song and several jazz songs. It's indecently good and articulate. It's a goosebumps moments.

However when I want to rock it with some classic rock and roll, a good dac + GOTL + the dynamic headphone of your choice is the way to go. Don't get me wrong, the BHSE and Stax will rock too but you should hear GOTL rock. It is born to rock in a frightening manner. Put simply it has balls. Excuse the crudeness.


----------



## Sound Trooper

mordy said:


> Hi SI,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Mordy,

I had 2 HD414s, one which I normally listen to and another 50th anniversary version which is mint in box. I'll probably start looking out for a boxed HD 414 50th anniversary.

Just collected the EL6 tubes from the post office and they are now in the amp. Will let them run for a while before coming back to listen and post impressions.


----------



## UntilThen

They sure look bigger than EL3N.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> They sure look bigger than EL3N.



They sure do, looks to be in pretty good shape as well.


----------



## UntilThen

Something happen.... music sound so good now. Big, bold and pounding. Enigma is mesmerising. There are only 2 changes. I'm using Auralic Aries Le via AES/EBU to NAD M51. Can't be the M51 because that can't be better than Yggy.... or can it? 

So it has to be Aries. This is sounding so good now. Oh love the ECC35 so much it goes back in after the short session with c3g. The tubes will remain there now. When the magic is there, I don't want to change anything now. Preferred headphone is still HD800 by far.... well in this setup.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> So it has to be Aries.



I stand corrected. It's not just Aries Le. It's the Gieseler linear power supply. This is a no nonsense LPSU. No fancy casework but what's inside is solid.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow some serious schitt is happening in the Yggdrasil thread.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Speaking of pictures of humble gear, one of the ear pads on my HD700 has ripped open.
> Waiting for a replacement to arrive.....


Are those the original pads Ken ?
You have listened to this headphone for a good long time.
I listened to the HD800 for over a year ,  every single day without using anything else

My HD800 pads are showing a small amount of wear
At some point I am going to order a new pair.
Last I checked I think they were near $100 for a set

The Senn HD600/HD650/HD700/HD800 have stood the test of time, great headphones








Sound Infinity said:


> Hi Mordy,
> 
> I had 2 HD414s, one which I normally listen to and another 50th anniversary version which is mint in box. I'll probably start looking out for a boxed HD 414 50th anniversary.
> 
> Just collected the EL6 tubes from the post office and they are now in the amp. Will let them run for a while before coming back to listen and post impressions.



Thanks Sound Infinity, I will be looking forward to your impressions.
I have never heard the Fostex TH900mk2, but I would assume the bass is very addicting and textured.


Like you I have mainly been using closed headphones so I do not bother my wife.
Both closed/open cans have their pros and cons.
After a couple two or three stouts/porters....I sometimes listen a bit loud.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Something happen.... music sound so good now. Big, bold and pounding. Enigma is mesmerising. There are only 2 changes. I'm using Auralic Aries Le via AES/EBU to NAD M51. Can't be the M51 because that can't be better than Yggy.... or can it?
> 
> So it has to be Aries. This is sounding so good now. Oh love the ECC35 so much it goes back in after the short session with c3g. The tubes will remain there now. When the magic is there, I don't want to change anything now. Preferred headphone is still HD800 by far.... well in this setup.




Those shelves look nice.


----------



## UntilThen

My son left those shelves behind. He was using it to raise his PC Monitor. I had no use for it previously but now it's fits the slim M51 and Aries.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I have never heard the Fostex TH900mk2, but I would assume the bass is very addicting and textured.



I have.... at the Sydney HiFi Show last year. I heard 3 headphones that day at the Addicted To Audio booth. Those guys greeted me like old friends because I had just bought Yggdrasil, Ragnarok, HD800 and LCD-2f from them a week before.

First headphone I listen to was HiFiMan Susvara driven by Woo Audio WA33. Man this is one crazy combo. I have never heard bass so deep and authoritative. It's deeper than middle earth and the whole tonality is surreal. I don't know what to make of it. Impressed definitely because it's unlike anything I've heard before. 

Second headphone I listen to was Grado GS2000e. I have never been a fan of those small cup Grados but this Grado is different. It has big ear cups and it sounded great !!! I make a mental note that I might buy it later but then I saw the price. This is Grado statement headphone and it sure has a statement price too.

Third I listen to the Fostex th900 mk2. Bass is strong, very strong and the whole FR is skewed that way. I find the treble diminished as a result. However I had just listen to 3 headphones in quick succession. So ... take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## mordy (Jun 10, 2018)

What is this beast used for? A triple triode 7.5A Graphite Plate tube:


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Wow some serious schitt is happening in the Yggdrasil thread.


Its all schiit related


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> What is this beast used for? A triple triode 7.5A Graphite Plate tube:


https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_7242.html:

"Power triple cathode triode designed as series regulator for power supplies. Similar to 7241 with higher mu. 100W total anode dissipation, mu 9, current limited to 300mA per cathode, 900mA total. Three cathodes with single grid and plate connections; hard glass bulb, 7 pin giant base."

https://tubedata.tubes.se/sheets/127/7/7242.pdf:

"In many circuits, one 7242 can replace four type 5998 regulator tubes."


----------



## Sound Trooper

Phantaminum said:


> I have the MTCH paired with the Aureurs while I wait on the GOTL but it’s a discernible difference when I use the Auteur pads (wider sounding and much more neutral) compared to the perforated Eikon pads which is more closed in but much warmer.
> 
> I was thinking the pads swap could get you close to the sweet Fostex sub bass sound signature without sacrificing much.



I’ve tried the Eikon pads and indeed it brings more warmth to the Auteurs. However I felt that the “airy-ness” magic is slightly gone and it is replaced by a more energy in the bottoms. Despite this, sub-bass is still no where near TH900Mk2 levels. Sound stage also suffers slightly. Overall, I still preferred the Auteur pads and thank you very much for the suggestion.

I think it’s great that Zach includes both pads in the package and owners can swap pads to find their preferred sound signature.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Thanks Sound Infinity, I will be looking forward to your impressions.
> I have never heard the Fostex TH900mk2, but I would assume the bass is very addicting and textured.
> 
> Like you I have mainly been using closed headphones so I do not bother my wife.
> ...





UntilThen said:


> Third I listen to the Fostex th900 mk2. Bass is strong, very strong and the whole FR is skewed that way. I find the treble diminished as a result. However I had just listen to 3 headphones in quick succession. So ... take it with a grain of salt.



To my ears, the TH900mk2’s main strength is it’s exceptional bass and sub-bass performance. Bass is both fast and textured while sub-bass extends low and cleanly. Mids (compared to the Auteurs) are a tad recessed while treble is not as smooth as the Auteur. I think the TH900mk2 will be a marmite headphone (ie either u love it or you will hear it) for many. It is also remarkable that both TH900mk2 and Auteur are 50cm bio-cellulose drivers with wooden cups however they sound totally different.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Sound Infinity said:


>



First impressions of the EL6:
1) they are as quiet as the EL3N (used them with the Auteur and Abyss and there was no background noise)
2) I needed slightly less gain to drive the Abyss
3) Sound signature is very similar to the EL3N (ie. clean, fast, life like vocals, bass extends deep)

I’ll try to post more impressions along the way.


----------



## UntilThen

Pictures please 

That sounds promising - the EL6.


----------



## UntilThen

I am having a different meet at my place. Got out the old receivers to clean and sell them cheap but found that they still drives all my speakers very well.. not as well as the Redgum but good enough.

My 2 friends will get to hear the GOTL for the 1st time.


----------



## Phantaminum

Sound Infinity said:


> I’ve tried the Eikon pads and indeed it brings more warmth to the Auteurs. However I felt that the “airy-ness” magic is slightly gone and it is replaced by a more energy in the bottoms. Despite this, sub-bass is still no where near TH900Mk2 levels. Sound stage also suffers slightly. Overall, I still preferred the Auteur pads and thank you very much for the suggestion.
> 
> I think it’s great that Zach includes both pads in the package and owners can swap pads to find their preferred sound signature.



It was definitely worth a try and thanks for your thoughts. I come from mostly closed in headphones so the Eikon pads sound is still wider than most and it tones down the treble for me but the Auteurs are much more open and instruments do have more air. 

I’m glad Zach shipped both earpads since I love them with the Eikon pads. I wonder how the LCD-2C sounds paired with the GEL3N.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Phantaminum said:


> It was definitely worth a try and thanks for your thoughts. I come from mostly closed in headphones so the Eikon pads sound is still wider than most and it tones down the treble for me but the Auteurs are much more open and instruments do have more air.
> 
> I’m glad Zach shipped both earpads since I love them with the Eikon pads. I wonder how the LCD-2C sounds paired with the GEL3N.



I used to have the LCD2F and it pairs really well with the EL3N. The LCD2C being darker in signature would probably pair well with the GEL3N as well.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Are those the original pads Ken ?
> You have listened to this headphone for a good long time.
> I listened to the HD800 for over a year ,  every single day without using anything else



Yes, these are the original pads. And as the HD700 is the only decent headphone I have, I use it every single day. So it isn't too surprising that the pads are finally starting to wear out....


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Infinity said:


> To my ears, the TH900mk2’s main strength is it’s exceptional bass and sub-bass performance. Bass is both fast and textured while sub-bass extends low and cleanly. Mids (compared to the Auteurs) are a tad recessed while treble is not as smooth as the Auteur. I think the TH900mk2 will be a marmite headphone (ie either u love it or you will hear it) for many. It is also remarkable that both TH900mk2 and Auteur are 50cm bio-cellulose drivers with wooden cups however they sound totally different.



Sounds like these headphones compliment each other very well.





Sound Infinity said:


> First impressions of the EL6:
> 1) they are as quiet as the EL3N (used them with the Auteur and Abyss and there was no background noise)
> 2) I needed slightly less gain to drive the Abyss
> 3) Sound signature is very similar to the EL3N (ie. clean, fast, life like vocals, bass extends deep)
> ...



Thanks for the first impressions.
I will have my amp back Wednesday with the new sockets...I can't wait to plug my Ori into it .






gibosi said:


> Yes, these are the original pads. And as the HD700 is the only decent headphone I have, I use it every single day. So it isn't too surprising that the pads are finally starting to wear out....



Not a surprise at all, matter of fact, for as much as you have used them, I would say they have lasted quite well.


----------



## UntilThen

The blues brothers have invaded my house. 

These are 2 of my young mates that visited me yesterday to listen to my stereo and head-fi system. The guy on the right is an electronics engineer who does measurements for amps and headphones. They are also classical and jazz lovers. They brought brought their own original recordings LPs. Miles Davis and John Coutrane plus a selection of classicals. I was told these old recordings LP cost between $500 to $1000 each. I can't believe it. 

One of them brought his own HD800 with Cardas cable and it has a Inner Fidelity mod. Honestly I still prefer my stock HD800. Perhaps my copy has the last tweak by Sennheiser because it sounded so right to me.

At the end, I ask them what they think of the GOTL. These guys love their music and gear and they are not very expressive. All they told me was the GOTL sounded good, very good. I can only agree wholeheartedly.

Here they are listening to Vivaldi's 'Four Seasons'.


----------



## Monsterzero

GOTL is in the house! 
Anyone care to help me out so I dont blow it up? LOL!

I have the tubes Glenn included,which are a 25sn7,which im guessing goes in slot #1?
Then there is one of these,which slot does this belong in?


 
And two of these. These go in which slots?


----------



## 2359glenn

Just get the 3DG4 in the REC socket if you mix up the other tubes no harm done.
I did send spare fuses!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> GOTL is in the house!
> Anyone care to help me out so I dont blow it up? LOL!



Congrats, Monster! 

Don't forget to set the voltage selector for the 25V driver. 
The 2 power tubes can go in any one of the 3 power socket pairs.
And we'll be looking forward to your first impressions.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 11, 2018)

rnros said:


> Congrats, Monster!
> 
> Don't forget to set the voltage selector for the 25V driver.
> The 2 power tubes can go in any one of the 3 power socket pairs.
> And we'll be looking forward to your first impressions.



Yep have that dialed in... 
For my first tube set I want to build around a Telefunken 12au7,cuz I love the detailed mids of that tube. I purchased an adapter for it





For that i would switch the voltage to 6v or 12v?


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Yep have that dialed in... I do believe I need to grab a pair of c3g tubes first though,right?
> For my first tube set I want to build around a Telefunken 12au7,cuz I love the detailed mids of that tube. I purchased an adapter for it
> 
> 
> ...




12V

Congrats on a beautiful amp!

I love hearing first impressions.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Monster one thing at a time. For now leave aside the 12au7 12ax7.

Put the 3dg4 in the front left rectifier socket.

Put the 25sn7 in the 1st socket.

Put the pair of Svetlana 6n13s in sockets 8 & 9.

Set the back switch to 25v.

Now power on.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Yep have that dialed in... I do believe I need to grab a pair of c3g tubes first though,right?
> For my first tube set I want to build around a Telefunken 12au7,cuz I love the detailed mids of that tube. I purchased an adapter for it
> 
> 
> ...



Why don't you just try the amp with the tubes i gave you with the amp first!!!!!!!!
Before using crazy adapters.
Here what the amp sounds with the right tubes first.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes Monster, start with the tubes Glenn gave you first. I know you are new to these so don't be afraid to ask questions.

Now just use Glenn's supplied tubes and start listening. It should be a good start.

It's a really beautiful looking amp. Congrats.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Yes Monster, start with the tubes Glenn gave you first. I know you are new to these so don't be afraid to ask questions.
> 
> Now just use Glenn's supplied tubes and start listening. It should be a good start.
> 
> It's a really beautiful looking amp. Congrats.


Congrats on the new amp!


----------



## UntilThen

Monster after you have listen to the 'stock' tubes for a while and when you are ready to experiment - which I hope in at least a few days time, this is what you do:-

You can put a 12au7 or 12ax7 in the adapter, then replace the 25sn7 tube with it.

Set the back switch to 6.3 volt.

All the others tubes stay as is.

... and power on. 

So basically you can use 25sn7 or 12au7 as drivers. Just set the back switch accordingly.


----------



## UntilThen

Are we getting music yet???


----------



## Monsterzero

Hooray!!! Plugged it in and nothing exploded! Trying it out on my HD6xx(so if it did explode id only be out 200.00  )

Will try my Atticus after the tubes are warmed...rockin a 24/96 version of L.A. Woman.... Oh that separation,and the bass is super tight!!! 
I cant wait to try out some different tube rolls!


----------



## rnros

@Monsterzero Definitely listen to the tubes you have now... Immediately!
Think you will be surprised how good the sound is.  : )

Yeah, the C3g will be another surprise whenever you get those.

Haven't heard the Telefunken 12AU7 yet, I'm sure it's very good.
That said, I have yet to hear a 9 pin tube that competes with the larger tubes for soundstage projection.
The RCA clear top 12AU7 and 12AX7 are a couple of the better 9 pin tubes I've heard.
So, lots of promise in that group, haven't ventured into the Euro brands yet.
But, still have my doubts that any will match the larger tubes I've heard.
I have that same adapter. Set the V selector for 6V. That adapter runs the heaters in parallel at 6V/300mA.


----------



## Monsterzero

rnros said:


> I have that same adapter. Set the V selector for 6V.



Thank you sir!


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats again Monster. Go slow on tube rolling. Don't wear out the sockets.

Enjoy!


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Monster after you have listen to the 'stock' tubes for a while and when you are ready to experiment - which I hope in at least a few days time, this is what you do:-
> 
> You can put a 12au7 or 12ax7 in the adapter, then replace the 25sn7 tube with it.
> 
> ...



Great thanks so much... So im running the two power tubes that Glenn provided. Adding two (or four) more will have what benefit? more volume/impact,or?
Also is it a no-no to mix 2 power tubes of one brand with 2 or 4 more of a different maker? Thinking of scavenging my La Figaro 339 tubes (2 Chathams and 2 RCAs)


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Great thanks so much... So im running the two power tubes that Glenn provided. Adding two (or four) more will have what benefit? more volume/impact,or?
> Also is it a no-no to mix 2 power tubes of one brand with 2 or 4 more of a different maker? Thinking of scavenging my La Figaro 339 tubes (2 Chathams and 2 RCAs)


No harm in mixing tubes - you have to determine if it sounds better. You can only use up to 4 x 2.5A power tubes such as the Chatham/RCA  6080/6AS7 in the GOTL.


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> Also is it a no-no to mix 2 power tubes of one brand with 2 or 4 more of a different maker? Thinking of scavenging my La Figaro 339 tubes (2 Chathams and 2 RCAs)



Yes, do that, no problem mixing brands, but you are limited to 2 pairs of 6AS7Gs. Has to do with heater current limitation.


----------



## leftside (Jun 11, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> Yep have that dialed in...
> For my first tube set I want to build around a Telefunken 12au7,cuz I love the detailed mids of that tube. I purchased an adapter for it





rnros said:


> @Monsterzero Definitely listen to the tubes you have now... Immediately!
> Think you will be surprised how good the sound is.  : )
> 
> Yeah, the C3g will be another surprise whenever you get those.
> ...



I want to know what the amp sounds like with the Telefunken 12au7! 

RCA made a lot of different 12au7 and 12ax7. Black plates with square getter from the 1940's are the best. One of the better US brands of those tubes for sure. Nice warmth. I have a slight preference for the Euros though - again earlier the better. Some people will argue the best 12au7s and 12ax7s are better than the best 6SN7s. Some current vendors such as McIntosh only use 12ax7, 12at7, 12au7 (and KT88/6550) tubes.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> No harm in mixing tubes - you have to determine if it sounds better. You can only use up to 4 x 2.5A power tubes such as the Chatham/RCA  6080/6AS7 in the GOTL.



Hi Mordy, I see we are typing in the same moment... Imagine you are getting close to having your GOTL built.
Or maybe it should be called GLOTL, Glenn Lundhal OTL?


----------



## 2359glenn

I have a builtin current limit circuit if the switch is left in the wrong position but it won't work with the little 9 pin tubes.
They will burn out if the switch is left on 12 volt or 25 volt.
With the octal tubes if the switch is left in 12 or 25 the amp will current limit and the pilet light in the switch will go out.


----------



## rnros (Jun 11, 2018)

leftside said:


> RCA made a lot of different 12au7 and 12ax7. Black plates with square getter from the 1940's are the best. One of the better US brands of those tubes for sure. Nice warmth. I have a slight preference for the Euros though - again earlier the better. Some people will argue the best 12au7s and 12ax7s are better than the best 6SN7s. Some current vendors such as McIntosh only use 12ax7, 12at7, 12au7 (and KT88/6550) tubes.



Thanks, I will look for those. No doubt the tube performance also depends on the amp in question.
Lots of spectacular drivers available for GOTL! The better 25/12/6SN7s are very, very good.
But my favorites, in terms of actual play time, are C3g, ECC31, FIVRE 6N7G.
And recently have been listening to the EL3N via the 2fer adapter, and it is outstanding in the GOTL design.
Has me very excited about the GEL3N.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

@Monsterzero  Congratulations . I am getting excited for my amp . I want to let me know if you find a tube setup that works with your Aeon"s?

@2359glenn  I was wondering how many people are ahead me on the build list?


----------



## Monsterzero

FunctionalDoc said:


> @Monsterzero  Congratulations . I am getting excited for my amp . I want to let me know if you find a tube setup that works with your Aeon"s?



Unfortunately I no longer have the AFC in my possession. They were loaned to me for a review. I liked them very much,just wish they had more texture and thump,otherwise the tonality is stellar.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Monster you're asking questions and that's good. All the correct answers have been given to you.

Continue using the stock for a while and get to know Glenn's amp sound signature.

Lots of exciting tubes to try but don't rush it. Get a pair of Cetron 6336b and 6 x 6bx7 for power tubes.

Don't try any tubes if you are unsure. Check with me or anyone here first. 

For drivers I tend to prefer those octal pins tubes such as 6sn7, b36, ecc33, ecc35.

Enjoy.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Don't try any tubes if you are unsure. Check with me or anyone here first.



Careful what you ask for,LOL!!!
Seriously thanks guys for enduring my questions


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Careful what you ask for,LOL!!!
> Seriously thanks guys for enduring my questions



Wait till you get my consultancy fees bill.


----------



## Monsterzero

I just spit out my beer


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> Hi Mordy, I see we are typing in the same moment... Imagine you are getting close to having your GOTL built.
> Or maybe it should be called GLOTL, Glenn Lundhal OTL?


Hi rnros,
What's in a name?
Glenn is a Gaelic name meaning valley.
Lund in Swedish means grove or stand of trees.
Dahl in Swedish means valley as well.

Anyhow, I am excited to learn that I am number three in line for a GOTL.


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> Thanks, I will look for those. No doubt the tube performance also depends on the amp in question.
> Lots of spectacular drivers available for GOTL! The better 25/12/6SN7s are very, very good.
> But my favorites, in terms of actual play time, are C3g, ECC31, FIVRE 6N7G.
> And recently have been listening to the EL3N via the 2fer adapter, and it is outstanding in the GOTL design.
> Has me very excited about the GEL3N.


Can you elaborate on using the EL3N tubes in the GOTL? I have the EL3N tubes and the dual adapters. Are you using one pair on a dual adapter as drivers? Or are you using 4 tubes on two dual adapters as power tubes?


----------



## wazzupi

Monsterzero said:


> I just spit out my beer


I hope not on the Glenn otl amp !


----------



## wazzupi (Jun 11, 2018)

Who do i hold responsible for my 1060.63 dollars worth of tubes in a few months ?
My addiction!


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Can you elaborate on using the EL3N tubes in the GOTL? I have the EL3N tubes and the dual adapters. Are you using one pair on a dual adapter as drivers? Or are you using 4 tubes on two dual adapters as power tubes?



One pair, dual adapter as driver. 
Used with any of several good rectifiers, and 4 6BX7s, RCA or Tung Sol. 
With the EL3N, actually prefer 4, rather than 6, of the 6BX7.
My best description would be that it combines the better qualities of the C3g and the ECC31.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Can you elaborate on using the EL3N tubes in the GOTL? I have the EL3N tubes and the dual adapters. Are you using one pair on a dual adapter as drivers? Or are you using 4 tubes on two dual adapters as power tubes?



The EL3N make a good sounding driver in the 6SN7 socket but not good as output tubes in the OTL.
Used as outputs the amp will be wimpy and only be able to drive high impedance phones maybe.
Not recommended as outputs I have a amp designed to use these as output tubes not the OTL.


----------



## Monsterzero

When using c3g tubes what is the correct setting for the voltage switch? Gonna order a pair tonight.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> When using c3g tubes what is the correct setting for the voltage switch? Gonna order a pair tonight.



It don't matter the C3g sockets only get 6.3 volts
When using the C3g there is no tube in the 6SN7 socket. You cannot have a tube in the 6SN7 socket and use a C3g.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Who do i hold responsible for my 1060.63 dollars worth of tubes in a few months ?
> My addiction!



Monster and Hans naturally. Blame it on them.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Monster and Hans naturally. Blame it on them.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Monster and Hans naturally. Blame it on them.



Huh, that’s weird... it must have autocorrected “Me” to “Monster” in your post, Mr. Enablerpants, lol!


----------



## Monsterzero

Out of the box this amp is _really_ good! Thank you Glenn!!!

Just pulled the trigger on a pair of c3g. Tomorrow will look into grabbing some 6BL7s,does anyone have some suggestions on some that will pair well with the c3g and my mostly warm headphone collection?


----------



## Hansotek

Monsterzero said:


> Out of the box this amp is _really_ good! Thank you Glenn!!!
> 
> Just pulled the trigger on a pair of c3g. Tomorrow will look into grabbing some 6BL7s,does anyone have some suggestions on some that will pair well with the c3g and my mostly warm headphone collection?



I don’t think you’ll have to worry too much about synergy with the C3G, they’re pretty neutral and tend to work with anything. 

As for the 6BL7s, I’ve only heard the Sylvania, so I can’t give much input on how brands compare.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 11, 2018)

Im running a a pair of RCA 6AS7 at the moment. If I grab 6 of 6BL7s from RCA do you think it will sound redundant to the single pair that I currently have? Further the Sylvania seem to be pretty clear and neutral,would that be too much of a clear neutral thing paired with the C3Gs?


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> The EL3N make a good sounding driver in the 6SN7 socket but not good as output tubes in the OTL.
> Used as outputs the amp will be wimpy and only be able to drive high impedance phones maybe.
> Not recommended as outputs I have a amp designed to use these as output tubes not the OTL.



Hi 2359glenn,
The EL3N draws 0.9A. The EL6 has the same pinout and the same side contact base, but draws 1.3A. Can this tube be used in the GOTL as driver and or power?


----------



## Hansotek

Monsterzero said:


> Im running a a pair of RCA 6AS7 at the moment. If I grab 6 of 6BL7s from RCA do you think it will sound redundant to the single pair that I currently have? Further the Sylvania seem to be pretty clear and neutral,would that be too much of a clear neutral thing paired with the C3Gs?



I don’t think the RCAs would be redundant at all. I have RCA 6AS7G and RCA 6BX7 and they don’t sound alike at all, save for some characteristic signatures of the RCA house sound, but even those are relative to the tube type. Personally, I feel they are the best bang for buck brand.

I also don’t feel pairing the more neutral C3G with the more neutral Sylvania is going to be a problem. Neither one is bright or boring. If you want a little extra warmth, you can always get it from the rectifier. A good cheap option there is the tall bottle RCA 5U4GB, which is too warm to match with any warm tubes, but will add big punch and warmth with a neutral or slightly bright driver and power tube compliment.


----------



## stax#1 (Jun 11, 2018)

You're right on track about the Mullard CV491. I am currently using 1955-1957 Mullard CV491 in my LAMM LL2 Deluxe. They do perform extremely well with Bass, the clarity on the lows are outstanding and the mids are smooth and very warm tone but the soundstage is not quite as wide as with other tubes. I also have a pair of Mullard CV4034 that are slightly less on the bass but the soundstage is slightly better. I am currently burning in my new ZMF Auteur cans. The first three weeks I use the Mullard CV4034 and tonight I rolled over to the Mullard CV491's. Then in a few weeks, I will roll over to a set of ECC802s. Then I will go back to my preferred tubes, the Mullard CV491's. This should wrap up burning in the ZMF cans.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Im running a a pair of RCA 6AS7 at the moment. If I grab 6 of 6BL7s from RCA do you think it will sound redundant to the single pair that I currently have? Further the Sylvania seem to be pretty clear and neutral,would that be too much of a clear neutral thing paired with the C3Gs?


You'll be rocking it with 6 RCA 6BL7s and 2 C3Gs!


----------



## lukeap69 (Jun 12, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> Out of the box this amp is _really_ good! Thank you Glenn!!!
> 
> Just pulled the trigger on a pair of c3g. Tomorrow will look into grabbing some 6BL7s,does anyone have some suggestions on some that will pair well with the c3g and my mostly warm headphone collection?



Congrats on your GOTL. It's a monster amp!  

I would suggest 6BX7's instead of 6BL7's. Paired with C3g's, these will have very high gain. 6BX7's have a teeny weeny bit lower gain. RCA, GE, and IEC Mullard are all very good. The Sylvania's are my least favourite because of the spikey high. Happy rolling!


----------



## Monsterzero

lukeap69 said:


> I would suggest 6BX7's instead of 6BL7's. Paired with C3g's, these will have very high gain. 6BX7's have a teeny weeny bit lower gain. RCA, GE, and IEC Mullard are all very good. The Sylvania's are my least favourite because of the spikey high. Happy rolling!



Thanks for that tip,I will look around for those instead.

Another question to throw out there... With the C3Gs already ordered and grabbing 4/6 of the 6BX7s what is everyones thoughts on adding a Mullard GZ32 in the rectifier spot? Yea? Nay?


----------



## lukeap69

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks for that tip,I will look around for those instead.
> 
> Another question to throw out there... With the C3Gs already ordered and grabbing 4/6 of the 6BX7s what is everyones thoughts on adding a Mullard GZ32 in the rectifier spot? Yea? Nay?



Rectifiers you say, Ken (@gibosi) is your man!


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> Congrats on your GOTL. It's a monster amp!
> 
> I would suggest 6BX7's instead of 6BL7's. Paired with C3g's, these will have very high gain. 6BX7's have a teeny weeny bit lower gain. RCA, GE, and *IEC Mullard* are all very good. The Sylvania's are my least favourite because of the spikey high. Happy rolling!



IEC Mullard did not manufacture the 6BX7 / 6BL7. IEC Mullard procured these tubes from others. I have seen GE and Toshiba tubes with this brand, and there may well be others...


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> IEC Mullard did not manufacture the 6BX7 / 6BL7. IEC Mullard procured these tubes from others. I have seen GE and Toshiba tubes with this brand, and there may well be others...



I think you have mentioned this already in the past. I just go with the box label. Whoever manufactured them, they sound good.


----------



## gibosi

In my opinion, the GZ32 is the best of the 5-volt Mullard rectifiers -- GZ32, GZ33, GZ34 and GZ37 (skinny bottle). But make sure you get a real Mullard. Unfortunately, Brimar 5V4G / CV729 were often labeled as GZ32, and the Brimar is not powerful enough for use in the OTL.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> In my opinion, the GZ32 is the best of the 5-volt Mullard rectifiers -- GZ32, GZ33, GZ34 and GZ37 (skinny bottle). But make sure you get a real Mullard. Unfortunately, Brimar 5V4G / CV729 were often labeled as GZ32, and the Brimar is not powerful enough for use in the OTL.



Yes I have read of such trickery. Anyway to correctly ID for this novice?


----------



## lukeap69

Monsterzero said:


> Yes I have read of such trickery. Anyway to correctly ID for this novice?



So you have discreetly named your new amp *Monster GOTL*! What a fitting name. I like it.


----------



## Monsterzero

lukeap69 said:


> So you have discreetly named your new amp *Monster GOTL*! What a fitting name. I like it.



Actually @Hansotek mentioned waaaay back when my amp was a "monster".
It stuck.


----------



## lukeap69

Monsterzero said:


> Actually @Hansotek mentioned waaaay back when my amp was a "monster".
> It stuck.


Ah, so Hans must be the godfather of this monster then.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Yes I have read of such trickery. Anyway to correctly ID for this novice?



The Brimar 5V4G to the left has very distinctive plates with holes. Also, the Brimar tends to have a taller base. If at all possible, make sure you can see the Mullard production code. Although this one is labeled as a Valvo, the code: R71 B9E reveals its origin:

R7 = GZ32
1 = Revision #
B = Mullard / Blackburn
9E = 1959, May.


----------



## Althalus

Monsterzero said:


> GOTL is in the house!
> Anyone care to help me out so I dont blow it up? LOL!



Congrats.
Your amp looks good. 
And I have an Impression how my amp will look like 

But I still have to wait till the leaves start to change colour. Maybe I will call mine "the fall".

Enjoy listening.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks for that tip,I will look around for those instead.
> 
> Another question to throw out there... With the C3Gs already ordered and grabbing 4/6 of the 6BX7s what is everyones thoughts on adding a Mullard GZ32 in the rectifier spot? Yea? Nay?



If you are planing to use C3g drivers the 6BX7 is the best choice lower gain go along with the high gain C3g.
Sometimes with 6BL7 picks up noise from the C3g to much gain.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi 2359glenn,
> The EL3N draws 0.9A. The EL6 has the same pinout and the same side contact base, but draws 1.3A. Can this tube be used in the GOTL as driver and or power?



Never tried this tube as a driver. Not to keen on using it as a output tube in this amp. These are more high impedance tubes requiring output transformers 
to run properly.
You would have to buy at least 4 of them better 8 really not worth the experiment.
There are plenty of tubes you can use in this amp without using these.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> There are plenty of tubes you can use in this amp without using these.



I agree totally. With Glenn's OTL amp, I really don't see the need to roll in other pentode tubes because there are simply so many good tubes to choose from. 

This amp is good not just for rock music btw. When my friends were here on Monday, I had on Mullard ECC35 with 6 x 6bx7gt. They were listening to classical music which really test an amp finesse, details and control. These guys turn to me and said that GOTL sounded very good. Very nice tone. That's what they said. I nodded in agreement.

I've said several times that GOTL is a success story to me. This amp will stay with me always. I will cherish and love it. I will get another more expensive tube amp in future but whatever amp comes my way, I'll see it as a side grade, not as an upgrade to GOTL. I'm just in love with the tone of this OTL amp.

In particular, I love how 6 x 6bx7 sounds. Running 4 x 5998 is very good but I feel that running 6 x 6bx7 is even better to my ears. Tone is tighter, more precise and have a better focus. I can't get enough of this tone. To think that 6 of these cheap power tubes can sound so good is a mystery. Those who own this Super 9 or 10 OTL amp should appreciate that many long man hours go into building one of these. It's an amp specially crafted for you. Take good care of it.


----------



## lukeap69

Try pairing GOTL with 6BX7's, HD800 SD and play music with mostly acoustic guitar. Heavenly!!!


----------



## Monsterzero

So here is my thoughts after a long night of non-stop listening(was up til 3:15am)

When I first got my GOTL up and running yesterday it sounded good,but not necessarily "better" than my La Figaro 339. I wasnt  disappointed really as I always try to keep my expectations in check,but I felt a bit underwhelmed. But after a few hours my GOTL really began to open up and by 9pm I could not stop listening. The Atticus became very deep and the midbass began to emerge like I know it can. Song after song that I know quite well sounded better than I have ever heard before. *Mind officially blown*

This amp is pure magic and worth every penny,and more!


----------



## Hansotek

Monsterzero said:


> So here is my thoughts after a long night of non-stop listening(was up til 3:15am)
> 
> When I first got my GOTL up and running yesterday it sounded good,but not necessarily "better" than my La Figaro 339. I wasnt  disappointed really as I always try to keep my expectations in check,but I felt a bit underwhelmed. But after a few hours my GOTL really began to open up and by 9pm I could not stop listening. The Atticus became very deep and the midbass began to emerge like I know it can. Song after song that I know quite well sounded better than I have ever heard before. *Mind officially blown*
> 
> This amp is pure magic and worth every penny,and more!



Just wait til you get those 6BX7s in there. @UntilThen ain’t lying man - those are really the ticket. You’ve only begun to scratch the surface.


----------



## mordy

Hi Althalus,
_Maybe I will call mine "the fall"._
_UT: I've said several times that GOTL is a success story to me. This amp will stay with me always. I will cherish and love it.
Mzero:*Mind officially blown*

_
Like fall in love....


----------



## Monsterzero

Does anyone have a reliable and reasonable source for the 6BX7s? Brent Jesse does not carry them.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> So here is my thoughts after a long night of non-stop listening(was up til 3:15am)
> 
> When I first got my GOTL up and running yesterday it sounded good,but not necessarily "better" than my La Figaro 339. I wasnt  disappointed really as I always try to keep my expectations in check,but I felt a bit underwhelmed. But after a few hours my GOTL really began to open up and by 9pm I could not stop listening. The Atticus became very deep and the midbass began to emerge like I know it can. Song after song that I know quite well sounded better than I have ever heard before. *Mind officially blown*
> 
> This amp is pure magic and worth every penny,and more!



The amp needs more burning in I only ran it for about 16 hrs wanted to get it shipped out to you.
Normally I burn in 48 hrs for amps going out of the country to make sure there are no problems. Never had one but I like to make sure.


----------



## wazzupi

Monsterzero said:


> Does anyone have a reliable and reasonable source for the 6BX7s? Brent Jesse does not carry them.


http://www.vacuumtubes.net email and ask which brand you want and how many they also have 6bl7s


----------



## Monsterzero

wazzupi said:


> http://www.vacuumtubes.net email and ask which brand you want and how many they also have 6bl7s



Thanks. I found some at vintagetubeservices.com


----------



## wazzupi (Jun 12, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks. I found some at vintagetubeservices.com


How much per tube ?

It was $12 per bx7 $8 per bl7


----------



## Monsterzero

He was asking 18.00 for GE and 28.00 for the RCAs and others...not the best prices Ive seen but I wanted to get them ordered and on their way


----------



## wazzupi

Monsterzero said:


> He was asking 18.00 for GE and 28.00 for the RCAs and others...not the best prices Ive seen but I wanted to get them ordered and on their way


Damn... lmao why rcas cost more ?


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> The Brimar 5V4G to the left has very distinctive plates with holes. Also, the Brimar tends to have a taller base. If at all possible, make sure you can see the Mullard production code. Although this one is labeled as a Valvo, the code: R71 B9E reveals its origin:
> 
> R7 = GZ32
> 1 = Revision #
> ...


Isn't the tube on the left a 5Z4G?  Or do Brimar's actual 5V4G tubes also have these unusual plates with the holes in them?  I don't remember where I read it, but I recall reading at some point that this is considered a "low voltage drop" version of a 5Y3.  Which cannot be right because it's indirectly heated while a 5Y3 is directly heated.

I've never liked the 5V4G in any amp I've tried them in.  Something about the tone just always sounds wrong to my ears.


----------



## Monsterzero

Andy seems to really dislike the GEs,but based upon suggestions from Gibosi and UT they like em...The Tung Sols are damn near impossible to find so I went with the next best suggestion from guys who own and know this amp.

Why so expensive for RCAs? I have no clue.


----------



## wazzupi

Monsterzero said:


> Andy seems to really dislike the GEs,but based upon suggestions from Gibosi and UT they like em...The Tung Sols are damn near impossible to find so I went with the next best suggestion from guys who own and know this amp.
> 
> Why so expensive for RCAs? I have no clue.


I bought the GE's at 12 dollars each


----------



## lukeap69

Monsterzero said:


> He was asking 18.00 for GE and 28.00 for the RCAs and others...not the best prices Ive seen but I wanted to get them ordered and on their way


I got my 6BX7's mostly from ebay. 5 pcs set for around 40 to 55 bucks per set. Then I hunted 1 pc to complete the sextet. Goodluck hunting.


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> Isn't the tube on the left a 5Z4G?  Or do Brimar's actual 5V4G tubes also have these unusual plates with the holes in them?  I don't remember where I read it, but I recall reading at some point that this is considered a "low voltage drop" version of a 5Y3.  Which cannot be right because it's indirectly heated while a 5Y3 is directly heated.
> 
> I've never liked the 5V4G in any amp I've tried them in.  Something about the tone just always sounds wrong to my ears.



The one I have is clearly marked 5V4G, but from your comment, it would appear that the Brimar 5V4G and 5Z4G plates look very similar. As I don't  have an amp that can use the 5Z4G I don't own one.... (But the 5Z4G should be fine in Glenn's EL3N amp.)

The published vdrop numbers I have are 25 for the 5V4G and 20 for the 5Z4G, versus 60 for the 5Y3, so it appears your memory is correct.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Andy seems to really dislike the GEs,but based upon suggestions from Gibosi and UT they like em...The Tung Sols are damn near impossible to find so I went with the next best suggestion from guys who own and know this amp.
> 
> Why so expensive for RCAs? I have no clue.



Now that you got the 6BX7s get a B36 or Tung-Sol BGRP 12SN7 and be done with it no need to roll any further.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> So here is my thoughts after a long night of non-stop listening(was up til 3:15am)
> 
> When I first got my GOTL up and running yesterday it sounded good,but not necessarily "better" than my La Figaro 339. I wasnt  disappointed really as I always try to keep my expectations in check,but I felt a bit underwhelmed. But after a few hours my GOTL really began to open up and by 9pm I could not stop listening. The Atticus became very deep and the midbass began to emerge like I know it can. Song after song that I know quite well sounded better than I have ever heard before. *Mind officially blown*
> 
> This amp is pure magic and worth every penny,and more!



After the first long night and your mind is officially blown is a good start. Let me pen a few observations here. First of all, unbeknown to most people, the La Figaro 339 is a pretty good sounding tube amp. It is clear, has a very wide soundstage, bass weight like king kong but a bit 'sharp' to me, at least the old version that I had. GOTL on the other hand, has a different sound signature. Even using Svetlana 6N13S as power tubes in both amps, the difference in tone is still there but not as wide as comparing GOTL with Euforia, the latter sounded more lush and warmer. Besides both GOTL and LF339 uses different drivers. You MUST NOT use LF339 drivers in GOTL. Those 6sj7 are pentodes use as strapped triodes in LF339. Likewise the EF86 are pentodes too.

2nd point I like to make is that the Russian 6N13S power tubes though sounding good in GOTL are just the entry level tubes (IMO) of power tubes I've heard in GOTL. There are many other power tubes that I prefer over those, such as Chatham 6as7g, Mullard 6080, Gec 6080, Gec 6as7a, Tung Sol 5998, 7236, Bendix 6080, Cetron 6336b. Of course the price difference is great and I still think that 6N13S is great bang for your dollar.

Lastly, the arrival of 6 x 6bx7 is like the turning of the tide or the war.  If there's a single tube that defines GOTL, it would be the 6bx7 or 6BL7 and we're talking about using 4 or 6 of them. 2 isn't that remarkable. Stepping up to 4 is good. Stepping up to 6 is the turning of the tide of war.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Now that you got the 6BX7s get a B36 or Tung-Sol BGRP 12SN7 and be done with it no need to roll any further.



I picked up a a pair of c3g recommended to me by UT and a Mullard GZ32 that came highly recommended from Gibosi and Hansotek. I wasnt even going to bother with rectifier tubes but I figured while im waiting for the HEXFRED to arrive I might as well pickup a decent one to have something to compare the SS option to.

Do you think I should still grab the tubes you recommended,or is what I have coming going to sound as good as I think it will?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Now that you got the 6BX7s get a B36 or Tung-Sol BGRP 12SN7 and be done with it no need to roll any further.



I can't agree more with this. This is where GOTL will leave LF399 miles behind and the difference is not subtle. I had LF339 back with me twice for comparison and after 2 weeks, I gladly return them to my son. 

Tung Sol BGRP whether in 12SN7 or 12SL7 is the best kept secret. I'm currently using the 12SL7 version now and I've also swap the power tube from 6 x GE to a mixture of 4 x Los Gatos (Tung Sol - that's what Gibosi told me) and 2 x Fivre 6BX7gt. I find the swap sounding better. It's slightly more sparkling. The slight change in tone is obvious to me because I've listened to the GEs for a while.

LJ in that FS link that I made has some Tung Sol 6su7gty black glass round plates. She also has a NOS ECC35 for $200. If you know the market price of ECC35, you will know this is cheep. I think this is worth trying. Wazzupi has a nice NOS pair. Even the RCA 5961 she has there is worth trying. I bought one and it's good.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks to Wazzupi and Monster, I now know where to get NOS 6bx7 or 6bl7 tubes. I got GE not because I like GE. They were the only 6bx7 I could get 6 of from one seller on ebay. I wanted to get the 6 Fivre 6bx7gt from Yates but I hesitated and when I wanted to buy it, it's gone. 

Eh... btw guys don't you buy up all the 6bx7s. Leave some for future generations of GOTL owners.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> So here is my thoughts after a long night of non-stop listening(was up til 3:15am)
> 
> When I first got my GOTL up and running yesterday it sounded good,but not necessarily "better" than my La Figaro 339. I wasnt  disappointed really as I always try to keep my expectations in check,but I felt a bit underwhelmed. But after a few hours my GOTL really began to open up and by 9pm I could not stop listening. The Atticus became very deep and the midbass began to emerge like I know it can. Song after song that I know quite well sounded better than I have ever heard before. *Mind officially blown*
> 
> This amp is pure magic and worth every penny,and more!




You are going to love your amp......the Atticus is killer with this amp....mid bass is so addicting and the slam is to die for.
The OTL is very transparent to tube rolling and has more options for rolling than you care to know about 

Congrats again Monster....enjoy that setup!


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Thanks to Wazzupi and Monster, I now know where to get NOS 6bx7 or 6bl7 tubes. I got GE not because I like GE. They were the only 6bx7 I could get 6 of from one seller on ebay. I wanted to get the 6 Fivre 6bx7gt from Yates but I hesitated and when I wanted to buy it, it's gone.
> 
> Eh... btw guys don't you buy up all the 6bx7s. Leave some for future generations of GOTL owners.




I have a couple sets of GE 6BL/X 7...I like them.

I have a set of Tung Sols here on loan and they are wonderful.

I have never heard a bad one to be honest...much like the RCA's also.

The bang for the buck with any brand of these tubes is outstanding...considering the price of some of the better power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Do you think I should still grab the tubes you recommended,or is what I have coming going to sound as good as I think it will?



Yes. Re-read the tubes Glenn mention. These are the tubes that finally had me stop rolling in the deep. 

You're on the right track with buying c3g and gz32 rectifier. Pair the c3g with 6 x 6bx7. If that is too much vividness then use the c3g with the pair of Svetlana 6n13s.

Continue to get 6 x 6bx7. Then buy a Tung Sol 6su7gty for $30 from LJ. I am going on intuition here. I have not heard this tube but it's supposed to be the premier version of 6SL7 tubes. I think it will be similar sounding to my Tung Sol 12SL7gt bgrp.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Wait till you get my consultancy fees bill.





UntilThen said:


> Thanks to Wazzupi and Monster, I now know where to get NOS 6bx7 or 6bl7 tubes. I got GE not because I like GE. They were the only 6bx7 I could get 6 of from one seller on ebay. I wanted to get the 6 Fivre 6bx7gt from Yates but I hesitated and when I wanted to buy it, it's gone.
> 
> Eh... btw guys don't you buy up all the 6bx7s. Leave some for future generations of GOTL owners.


So you don't actually like the GE tubes?
Do you think it's worth the extra sixty bucks to opt for the RCAs?


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> So you don't actually like the GE tubes?
> Do you think it's worth the extra sixty bucks to opt for the RCAs?



Oh no no I did not say I didn't like the GE 6bx7. If they are the only 6bx7 I have I'd be happy. I have not heard the RCA brand of 6bx7.

There isn't that much difference between my Fivre + Los Gatos and GE 6bx7 in tone. It's not something I could pick up easily. I think you will be pleased with any brand and since the GE is so much cheaper, go for it. I love it.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Oh no no I did not say I didn't like the GE 6bx7. If they are the only 6bx7 I have I'd be happy. I have not heard the RCA brand of 6bx7.
> 
> There isn't that much difference between my Fivre + Los Gatos and GE 6bx7 in tone. It's not something I could pick up easily. I think you will be pleased with any brand and since the GE is so much cheaper, go for it. I love it.


I like that answer. So does my wallet


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I have a couple sets of GE 6BL/X 7...I like them.
> 
> I have a set of Tung Sols here on loan and they are wonderful.
> 
> ...



This is worth quoting and Joe has stated what I believe too. I don't even mind the 6 x Sylvania 6BL7gt / gta.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Oh no no I did not say I didn't like the GE 6bx7. If they are the only 6bx7 I have I'd be happy. I have not heard the RCA brand of 6bx7.
> 
> There isn't that much difference between my Fivre + Los Gatos and GE 6bx7 in tone. It's not something I could pick up easily. I think you will be pleased with any brand and since the GE is so much cheaper, go for it. I love it.



Just as an aside, there is a lot of cross branding of the 6BL7 and 6BX7 tubes. I have 6BL7 Tung Sol made by GE (the sandblasted dots are the giveaway), and RCA made by Sylvania.
Did anybody try Japanese made tubes under the Raytheon brand?
And did anybody mix different brands since it may be difficult to get six of the same?


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Just as an aside, there is a lot of cross branding of the 6BL7 and 6BX7 tubes. I have 6BL7 Tung Sol made by GE (the sandblasted dots are the giveaway), and RCA made by Sylvania.
> Did anybody try Japanese made tubes under the Raytheon brand?
> And did anybody mix different brands since it may be difficult to get six of the same?



Yes, it seemed everybody made tubes for each other...so if somebody wants all tubes of the same brand...go by the construction  of the tubes and not the name on the tube.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Just as an aside, there is a lot of cross branding of the 6BL7 and 6BX7 tubes. I have 6BL7 Tung Sol made by GE (the sandblasted dots are the giveaway), and RCA made by Sylvania.
> Did anybody try Japanese made tubes under the Raytheon brand?
> And did anybody mix different brands since it may be difficult to get six of the same?



It appears that Tung-Sol and RCA did not begin to manufacture 6BL7 and 6BX7 until around 1960. On the other hand, Sylvania and GE manufacture dates back to the early 1950's. So a large number of the Tung-Sol and RCA you will see were in fact manufactured by either GE or Sylvania. As Whirlwind points out, it is necessary to go by construction, rather than the name painted on the tube, when purchasing these tubes.

I have yet to acquire enough Toshiba to try them. And... mixing different brands is against my religion... lol


----------



## 2359glenn

Tung-Sol BGRP 12SN7 pair sell one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...820688?hash=item5d7dfefa10:g:8~oAAOSwFtZamdRP


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Tung-Sol BGRP 12SN7 pair sell one
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...820688?hash=item5d7dfefa10:g:8~oAAOSwFtZamdRP


The trick is to find one under a rebranded name - I believe that somebody picket up one such tube for $13......
(OK - this seller knew that TS made the Fordom tube)


----------



## UntilThen

I mix brands of 6bx7 not by choice or religion. 

I had to since I have 4 Tung Sol 6bx7 and 3 Fivre but I think I have discovered a new Mexican brew.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Tung-Sol BGRP 12SN7 pair sell one
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...820688?hash=item5d7dfefa10:g:8~oAAOSwFtZamdRP



That's a lovely NOS pair of TS 12SN7. I did get my NOS pair of TS 12SL7 for just $99.

Surprisingly I don't find much difference in tone between 12SN7 and 12SL7.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> So a large number of the Tung-Sol and RCA you will see were in fact manufactured by either GE or Sylvania. As Whirlwind points out, it is necessary to go by construction, rather than the name painted on the tube, when purchasing these tubes.


 Andy did mention that the some of the tubes were labeled GE and some were labeled RCA,but they were all the same tube.

He really dislikes the GEs,but he has a 14 day return policy,so if I dont like them I can ship em back and get a different brand.


----------



## UntilThen

Why does he dislike GE? That's the 1st company I work in.


----------



## leftside

@2359glenn who's next in line for a build?


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn needs to recruit me as an apprentice now.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> The one I have is clearly marked 5V4G, but from your comment, it would appear that the Brimar 5V4G and 5Z4G plates look very similar. As I don't  have an amp that can use the 5Z4G I don't own one.... (But the 5Z4G should be fine in Glenn's EL3N amp.)
> 
> The published vdrop numbers I have are 25 for the 5V4G and 20 for the 5Z4G, versus 60 for the 5Y3, so it appears your memory is correct.


I have a 5Z4G and the plates look just like the one in your photo.  Looks like something to keep an eye on for buyers interested in these tubes.


----------



## Hansotek

gibosi said:


> It appears that Tung-Sol and RCA did not begin to manufacture 6BL7 and 6BX7 until around 1960. On the other hand, Sylvania and GE manufacture dates back to the early 1950's. So a large number of the Tung-Sol and RCA you will see were in fact manufactured by either GE or Sylvania. As Whirlwind points out, it is necessary to go by construction, rather than the name painted on the tube, when purchasing these tubes.
> 
> I have yet to acquire enough Toshiba to try them. And... mixing different brands is against my religion... lol



I actually mixed a pair of Sylvania 6BL7s and a pair of RCA 6BX7s one time and I was surprisingly good.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn needs to recruit me as an apprentice now.



Are you ready to start?


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> Are you ready to start?



Dang! Got room for two?


----------



## UntilThen

There's always room for 2 apprentices so I can blame the other apprentice. 

I need to complete Soldering For Dummies real quick.

So whose OTL shall I start with first?


----------



## mordy

You could start practicing on an OTL using a quad of Tung Sol Graphite Plate 7242 tubes as powers. 
But wait, first I have to call in an electrician to install a 30A line to my listening room.....


----------



## 2359glenn

So whose OTL shall I start with first?[/QUOTE]

Mordy's is a good start.  All you have to do is copy yours.
Need the first giney pig.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> You could start practicing on an OTL using a quad of Tung Sol Graphite Plate 7242 tubes as powers.
> But wait, first I have to call in an electrician to install a 30A line to my listening room.....



Get 15 amp 240 volt .  240 volt in the US is balanced power cancels hum.  Most equipment is multi voltage now.
I have 240 behind my stereo equipment


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Need the first giney pig.



Haha guinea pig. Nobody wants to be my guinea pig. 

Such a lovely tone from GOTL running TS 12SL7 bgrp and 6 x 6bx7gt. I think I will get the Tung Sol 6su7gty bgrp from LJ. I just need to hear this tube.


----------



## UntilThen

That's how expensive a NOS pair of TS 6sn7gt vt-231 bgrp cost.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-V...um-tubes-matched-and-guaranteed-/113015654936


----------



## 2359glenn

Crazy expensive
The 12SN7 is so much cheaper.
The beauty of being to use 12 v and 25 v tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Haha guinea pig. Nobody wants to be my guinea pig
> 
> Nobody minds a small fire.


----------



## UntilThen

As much as I like the 6 x 6bx7, I find the below setup beyond incredible.

ECC35 + Cetron 7236 + Tung Sol 5998. This has just cause a sonic explosion of the wunderkind. @leftside  I want to see you roll in ECC35 + 4 x WE421a. I have a very good idea what that sounds like.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> As much as I like the 6 x 6bx7, I find the below setup beyond incredible.
> 
> ECC35 + Cetron 7236 + Tung Sol 5998. This has just cause a sonic explosion of the wunderkind. @leftside  I want to see you roll in ECC35 + 4 x WE421a. I have a very good idea what that sounds like.


Hi UT,
You are breaking Gibosi's rule here lol. But seriously, is there any valid reason why you can't mix tubes?
After all, driver and power tubes are almost always mixed......


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Get 15 amp 240 volt .  240 volt in the US is balanced power cancels hum.  Most equipment is multi voltage now.
> I have 240 behind my stereo equipment


Hi 2359glenn, 
Always learning new things-thanks. Are you saying that a dedicated 240V line is better than power line conditioning for 120V?


----------



## mordy

In looking for TS 12SL7 Black Round Plates I find some listed as gray round plates. Are these the same as the BRP or different?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> You are breaking Gibosi's rule here lol. But seriously, is there any valid reason why you can't mix tubes?
> After all, driver and power tubes are almost always mixed......



In the end, this is simply a hobby, and therefore, one can do whatever one wants with his/her equipment. 

As you well know, one of the major things to consider is total heater current, that is, can the amp provide enough. Two Cetron 7236 + two Tung Sol 5998 is certainly well within spec. Another variable to consider is the amplification factor. The purist in me believes that all power tubes should have the same AF. However, in this case, the AF for the 7236 is 4.8 and that for the 5998 is 5.5, so maybe not enough of a difference to worry about.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> In the end, this is simply a hobby, and therefore, one can do whatever one wants with his/her equipment.
> 
> As you well know, one of the major things to consider is total heater current, that is, can the amp provide enough. Two Cetron 7236 + two Tung Sol 5998 is certainly well within spec. Another variable to consider is the amplification factor. The purist in me believes that all power tubes should have the same AF. However, in this case, the AF for the 7236 is 4.8 and that for the 5998 is 5.5, so maybe not enough of a difference to worry about.


More questions:
When calculating the current draw of tubes used in the GOTL, is it the total amperage that counts, or are the driver and power slots rated with two different maximums?
And based on what you say, the same tube from different manufacturers with the same specs should not matter?
It seems to me that the AF for suitable driver tubes has a much greater range - say from 20 to 40.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi 2359glenn,
> Always learning new things-thanks. Are you saying that a dedicated 240V line is better than power line conditioning for 120V?



Yes but your stereo equipment has to be able to run on 230 to 240 volts not just 120.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> More questions:
> When calculating the current draw of tubes used in the GOTL, is it the total amperage that counts, or are the driver and power slots rated with two different maximums?
> And based on what you say, the same tube from different manufacturers with the same specs should not matter?
> It seems to me that the AF for suitable driver tubes has a much greater range - say from 20 to 40.



Yes, the driver and output slots are added together. The maximum the amp can provide varies somewhat depending on which transformer you have, Lundahl or American, and whether or not you have tube rectification.

And in terms of AF, yes for example, all 6AS7G are the same.

And yes, the AF for output tubes runs from 2 for the 6AS7 to 15 for the 6BL7, whereas, suitable drivers can be as low as 9 for a 27 to as high as 70 for a 6SL7, or even 100 for a 12AX7.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Yes but your stereo equipment has to be able to run on 230 to 240 volts not just 120.





gibosi said:


> Yes, the driver and output slots are added together. The maximum the amp can provide varies somewhat depending on which transformer you have, Lundahl or American, and whether or not you have tube rectification.
> 
> And in terms of AF, yes for example, all 6AS7G are the same.
> 
> And yes, the AF for output tubes runs from 2 for the 6AS7 to 15 for the 6BL7, whereas, suitable drivers can be as low as 9 for a 27 to as high as 70 for a 6SL7, or even 100 for a 12AX7.


Thanks - based on the above, I take it that when you say not to mix tubes, you mean tubes of very different AF being used together. Would an example of this be 6AS7 and 6BL7?
On the other hand, using two each of Sylvania, GE and Tung Sol 6BX7 should not be a problem ? (Chocolate, Vanilla and Strawberry lol....)


----------



## UntilThen

What I am rolling here is totally within the acceptable limits and I am also aware that 7236 and 5998 have slight variance in amplification factor but they combine wonderfully. Don't mix a 6as7 and a 5998 together though. Those who roll tube must know what they are doing. This is not an experiment where you can throw in any tubes together. You should never combine tubes if you aren't sure of the total current draw or compatibility.

I would have roll 4 x 5998 but one of my 5998 has a slight noise so I switch in a pair of 7236. 

ECC35 + 7237 + 5998 is a killer tone. The 7236 tightens up the tone which I like.


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Thanks - based on the above, I take it that when you say not to mix tubes, you mean tubes of very different AF being used together. Would an example of this be 6AS7 and 6BL7?
> On the other hand, using two each of Sylvania, GE and Tung Sol 6BX7 should not be a problem ? (Chocolate, Vanilla and Strawberry lol....)





UntilThen said:


> What I am rolling here is totally within the acceptable limits and I am also aware that 7236 and 5998 have slight variance in amplification factor but they combine wonderfully. Don't mix a 6as7 and a 5998 together though. Those who roll tube must know what they are doing. This is not an experiment where you can throw in any tubes together. You should never combine tubes if you aren't sure of the total current draw or compatibility.
> 
> I would have roll 4 x 5998 but one of my 5998 has a slight noise so I switch in a pair of 7236.
> 
> ECC35 + 7237 + 5998 is a killer tone. The 7236 tightens up the tone which I like.


Is there any rule for figuring out compatibility? How close should the tubes be regarding the amplification factor? 
Or is it just trial and error?


----------



## UntilThen

The other combination that works and works well is GEC B36 + GEC 6080 + GEC 6AS7G. I've previously posted pictures of this combination. A bit rich though - in price of tubes I mean but it sounds wonderful.

6080 + 6as7 = ok

6as7 + 5998 = not ok. How do I know? Don't worry trust me I know.

Regarding 6SL7 and 12SL7 and ECC35 which have an amplification of 70 and 68. I was rather surprised at how well they performed in GOTL. No untoward effects and no crazy high volume. I haven't touch 12ax7 (100) though and have no intention to. I did like the Mullard M8138 and Gold Lion 6922 but have since given up on them because I simply didn't like handling small tube mounted on those adapters. Aesthetically they just don't look good. In fact I try to avoid adapters where possible. Of course this is up to individuals. If you like small tubes (and they can sound very good) then go for it.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Is there any rule for figuring out compatibility? How close should the tubes be regarding the amplification factor?
> Or is it just trial and error?



Unfortunately you usually discover it only by trying. What I would caution is to play it safe and roll with 'standard' tubes or combination. GOTL sounds beautiful with standard combination and there are far too many tubes that are safe and sound wonderful. No need to be wild with experimentation.


----------



## UntilThen

Another tube that defines GOTL is 6336 specifically the A and B version. This is a gorgeous sounding power tube in this amp but you must know that a pair of these is 10 amperes. GOTL with Lundahl transformer max current allowable is 13a. 

So 6336 must only be used as a pair with the driver. That's all it needs though because this is a premier sound in my opinion.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> The other combination that works and works well is GEC B36 + GEC 6080 + GEC 6AS7G. I've previously posted pictures of this combination. A bit rich though - in price of tubes I mean but it sounds wonderful.
> 
> 6080 + 6as7 = ok
> 
> ...



Sheesh UT, it’s not about the size but how you use it.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Sheesh UT, it’s not about the size but how you use it.



This is going to be highly debatable but I won't go into 'mine is bigger than yours' argument lol.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I must concede that a Mullard M8136 with a pair of Cetron 6336b sounds very good. I have a good chuckle looking at this combination because it looks like a mouse and a pair of elephants but the sound.... is like mating Mighty Mouse with Godzilla. I'll leave that to your imagination.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> That's how expensive a NOS pair of TS 6sn7gt vt-231 bgrp cost.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-V...um-tubes-matched-and-guaranteed-/113015654936


That's what they cost when I bought my pair 7 or 8 years ago.  I'm actually kind of amazed at how stable it has been considering the economics behind their supply situation.  Either there are a lot of these things squirreled away being found all the time, or some particularly clever people are sitting on a pile of them and releasing them into the wild at a controlled rate over time.  Yes, I know that's highly unlikely, but audiophiles do highly unlikely things sometimes.


----------



## Monsterzero

Man this amp takes the HD250s to whole next level. The La Figaro 339 does wonders for them over SS,but this is just stellar.
Highly underrated/unknown headphone,highly recommended


----------



## UntilThen

Actually it didn't look too bad. It's rather cute.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> That's what they cost when I bought my pair 7 or 8 years ago.  I'm actually kind of amazed at how stable it has been considering the economics behind their supply situation.  Either there are a lot of these things squirreled away being found all the time, or some particularly clever people are sitting on a pile of them and releasing them into the wild at a controlled rate over time.  Yes, I know that's highly unlikely, but audiophiles do highly unlikely things sometimes.



Seriously? I would have thought that 7 years ago they would be much cheaper. Well Tung Sol black glass round plates have that mytical powers. It's not all hype. This is an outstanding driver but everyone knows that.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Is there any rule for figuring out compatibility? How close should the tubes be regarding the amplification factor?
> Or is it just trial and error?



Well if you think about it, within the same tube you can have two triodes that differ by 10 or 15%. 
Referring here to circuits where a dual triode is serving the same channel, whether it's driver stage or power stage.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Thanks - based on the above, I take it that when you say not to mix tubes, you mean tubes of very different AF being used together. Would an example of this be 6AS7 and 6BL7?
> On the other hand, using two each of Sylvania, GE and Tung Sol 6BX7 should not be a problem ? (Chocolate, Vanilla and Strawberry lol....)



Again, I am a bit of a purist...  While I would never mix 6AS7 and 6BL7, if you really want to do it, it shouldn't hurt anything....

And when it comes to mixing tubes of the same type, but different brands, I tend to be very deliberate. For example, with some drivers, I find the Sylvania 6BX7 to have a bit more treble than I like. My standard practice is to simply roll in a darker rectifier. After all, I have a bunch of them. But as Hansotek suggests, mixing Sylvania and RCA 6BX7 would likely tone down the treble a bit and might just sound quite good.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Now that I think about it, it must have been 9 ago I bough the TS BGRP.  Whenever I had the Woo Audio 6.

Gosh time flies.........


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Actually it didn't look too bad. It's rather cute.


Hi UT,
I did sample the sound of a pair of 6336B in the Euforia using external power, and it was absolutely stunning, just enhancing every driver tube. However, I was warned that I could damage my amp so I stopped using them. One of the reasons I want the GOTL since they can be used there without any problems.

Now, you think that that little Mullard looks cute - wait until you see a subminiature 6SN7 tube (6021 and others) driven by a pair of 5A Cetrons:




This tube is maybe 3/8" tall and the end of the 6SN7 development chain. I assume that it will not break if you drop it since it is made to withstand and impact of 450 G. Made for ICBMs and good to operate up to 80,000 feet. 
I am curious why these types of tubes aren't used in portable equipment since they are very small and not expensive.


----------



## 2359glenn

This tube can be soldered into a 8 pin tube base and it will work fine in the OTL.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> This tube can be soldered into a 8 pin tube base and it will work fine in the OTL.


I am ready lol:


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> I did sample the sound of a pair of 6336B in the Euforia using external power, and it was absolutely stunning, just enhancing every driver tube. However, I was warned that I could damage my amp so I stopped using them. One of the reasons I want the GOTL since they can be used there without any problems.
> 
> Now, you think that that little Mullard looks cute - wait until you see a subminiature 6SN7 tube (6021 and others) driven by a pair of 5A Cetrons:
> ...



One of my favorite power tubes, the 6336B. It is absolutely stunning in the GOTL also.
If you have a tube rectifier, you can warm or cool it a bit with the rectifier choice.
Using it now with the 1641/RK60, listening to a BIS label solo lute recording, beautiful texture and precision.

That 6021 looks interesting. And you're ready to go!
I see it has a different pinout than the 6SN7. Have some extra 6SN7 bases laying around here, I'll have to give it a try.
Is the plate V max OK, or do you need the WA version for GOTL?


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> One of my favorite power tubes, the 6336B. It is absolutely stunning in the GOTL also.
> If you have a tube rectifier, you can warm or cool it a bit with the rectifier choice.
> Using it now with the 1641/RK60, listening to a BIS label solo lute recording, beautiful texture and precision.
> 
> ...



I do not have the 6021, but the Raytheon 6832. I think that we compared a bunch of US and Russian sub miniature 6SN7 type tubes on the Little Dot thread, and if I remember correctly, the Sylvania 7963 came out as best sounding.
Gibosi would have more information I think.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> I am ready lol:



That looks like Jelly fish with long tentacles... besides a whale.


----------



## gibosi

A pic showing relative size:




And as usual, I likely win the prize for quick and crude:



I happened to have some 14/2 American indoor copper building wire and noticed that the bare wire fit perfectly into the hollow octal base pins. So I simply soldered the sub-minature leads to sections of building wire and jammed them into the hollow pins. I didn't have any heat shrink tubing when I did the first one, so wrapped each wire in white electrical tape. For the others, I used 3/64 inch heat shrink tubing to insulate the wires. Again, crude and quick. lol 

And I agree with Mordy that those of us who tried these sub-miniatures preferred the Sylvania 7963. However, it has been a very long time since I tried it in the OTL, so I can't really say how it sounds.....


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> A pic showing relative size:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Time to try the 7963 with a pair of 6336!
At least it will be a photo op!


----------



## leftside

Here's some neater looking flying leads adapted for regular use


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Here's some neater looking flying leads adapted for regular use



Those look great! So if all of us send you our sub-miniatures, will you put octal bases on them and make them look really neat like yours?


----------



## mordy

Looks great! Is this what you used?


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Looks great! Is this what you used?


That’s right. But I admit, someone else did the actual work. I just supplied the parts.


----------



## UntilThen

Finally spending some time with 4 x Svetlana 6N13S with ECC35.

Simply sensational that the OTL amp can sound so good with these cheap Russian power tubes.

4 of these power tubes opens up the soundstage and project a holographic portrait. What's incredible is how quiet this setup is. With no music playing and volume to the max, there is not even a murmur.


----------



## 2359glenn

I use the Svetlana tubes exclusively due to them being quiet most important to me.
I had GEs and RCAs that are to noisy to use and two 5998s that arced over and blue my headphones. 
I will not use 5998s at all not worth the risk. JUNK!!!!


----------



## lukeap69

Fortunately, my 5998's have been very good to me. They have been with Darna since I got them. I don't remember how many months now. I am really pleased with them. They are 2nd to my GEC 6AS7's for versatility.  I still like the 6BX7's the most for my HD800 but not for my HD650.


----------



## UntilThen

Ah yes this is not a case of Svetlana 6N13S vs 5998 because there is no comparison. 

My pair of 5998 and the single from Langrex are excellent and these are super sounding tubes. I just wish there are more NOS ones and at cheaper price but that's like wishing GEC 6as7g is plentiful and cheap too. 

Quad Svetlana 6n13s on its own is quite amazing in the GOTL but quad 5998 is a whole lot better. Different degrees of goodness.


----------



## UntilThen

The only cheap power tubes that are on par or better than 5998 are the sextxt 6bx7... and that's saying a lot for those cheaper tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Ah yes this is not a case of Svetlana 6N13S vs 5998 because there is no comparison.
> 
> My pair of 5998 and the single from Langrex are excellent and these are super sounding tubes. I just wish there are more NOS ones and at cheaper price but that's like wishing GEC 6as7g is plentiful and cheap too.
> 
> Quad Svetlana 6n13s on its own is quite amazing in the GOTL but quad 5998 is a whole lot better. Different degrees of goodness.



4X 5998
That's great 4X the likelihood of blowing up your headphones and maybe ears.
These tubes are JUNK I don't care how good they supposedly sound.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's hard to convince anybody until it happens to them.  So far Glenn you and I are the only two people who have had their headphones blown up by 5998 tubes.  Although you're the only one of us who was also unlucky enough to be wearing them at the time too.  This is why I always start the OTL with nothing plugged into the jack now.  After it's been on 5 minutes I plug in the phones.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> It's hard to convince anybody until it happens to them.  So far Glenn you and I are the only two people who have had their headphones blown up by 5998 tubes.  Although you're the only one of us who was also unlucky enough to be wearing them at the time too.  This is why I always start the OTL with nothing plugged into the jack now.  After it's been on 5 minutes I plug in the phones.


Do you think that your bad experiences are limited to a certain batch? If so, maybe you could provide date codes or similar identifying information.


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> It's hard to convince anybody until it happens to them.  So far Glenn you and I are the only two people who have had their headphones blown up by 5998 tubes.  Although you're the only one of us who was also unlucky enough to be wearing them at the time too.  This is why I always start the OTL with nothing plugged into the jack now.  After it's been on 5 minutes I plug in the phones.


I do the same these days.

Glenn, don't hate me when I plug in 4 5998's into the OTL


----------



## lukeap69

Xcalibur255 said:


> It's hard to convince anybody until it happens to them.  So far Glenn you and I are the only two people who have had their headphones blown up by 5998 tubes.  Although you're the only one of us who was also unlucky enough to be wearing them at the time too.  This is why I always start the OTL with nothing plugged into the jack now.  After it's been on 5 minutes I plug in the phones.


You also had 5998 blown up? Wow. Scary. I don't worry however because I always have my amp running for a while before plugging in my phones. Being an engineer, I almost always follow some procedures when I do things. The same as my guitar amps, turn them on for say 10 minutes before I plug my guitar in.


----------



## whirlwind

The GELN


lukeap69 said:


> You also had 5998 blown up? Wow. Scary. I don't worry however because I always have my amp running for a while before plugging in my phones. Being an engineer, I almost always follow some procedures when I do things. The same as my guitar amps, turn them on for say 10 minutes before I plug my guitar in.



I always do the same, never plug my headphones in right away.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> I do the same these days.
> 
> Glenn, don't hate me when I plug in 4 5998's into the OTL



It's your phones and ears.
Not going to do anything to the amp.


----------



## whirlwind

The EL3N amp has made its way back to me with the new Yamamoto sockets







I have also installed a couple of more SS hard drives in this old Coolermaster server case....this behemoth must be 15 years old....it has transformed from a gaming machine into holding all of my music files...it is ugly, but a very effective case.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> The EL3N amp has made its way back to me with the new Yamamoto sockets
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How did you like how the side pin tubes went into those Yamamoto  sockets.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> How did you like how the side pin tubes went into those Yamamoto  sockets.



Pretty sweet, no force required ...great upgrade to the amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Do you think that your bad experiences are limited to a certain batch? If so, maybe you could provide date codes or similar identifying information.



Anything is possible, but what you are asking for seems like it would be difficult if not impossible to find information on.

To be both fair and clear, this isn't something that's limited to the 5998.  Any power tube has the potential to short or arc if it has an issue.  It just seems to happen more often with these voltage regulating tubes, and more often still with the 5998 in particular.  But, this could happen with a 6AS7 or the like just as easily.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Pretty sweet, no force required ...great upgrade to the amp.



You can wiggle the tube in the socket with the amp on no static or nothing heard in the phones.
Worth the price.
Will only use Yamamoto sockets on the EL3N amp for now on will be a price increase but it is worth it.


----------



## wazzupi

2359glenn said:


> You can wiggle the tube in the socket with the amp on no static or nothing heard in the phones.
> Worth the price.
> Will only use Yamamoto sockets on the EL3N amp for now on will be a price increase but it is worth it.


Do you tube roll alot on a EL3N amp ? If not wouldnt a otl amp be a better fit since everyone loves to tube roll with it ?


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> The EL3N amp has made its way back to me with the new Yamamoto sockets
> 
> [



Do you prefer one amp over the other? Or maybe it's a mood thing and one day you prefer one over the other? Or maybe the EL3N is your preferred amp and you use the GOTL when you want to tube roll?

Is there much of a difference in sound to the amps? If so, if you roll in the EL3N tubes to the GOTL does that make the GOTL sound more like the EL3N amp?​


----------



## gibosi (Jun 14, 2018)

leftside said:


> Do you prefer one amp over the other? Or maybe it's a mood thing and one day you prefer one over the other? Or maybe the EL3N is your preferred amp and you use the GOTL when you want to tube roll?
> 
> Is there much of a difference in sound to the amps? If so, if you roll in the EL3N tubes to the GOTL does that make the GOTL sound more like the EL3N amp?​



Apart from the sonics, I think it is important to remember that the EL3N amp is a transformer-coupled amp while the OTL has no output transformer. Hence the EL3N will be much better with low-impedance and/or inefficient headphones, while the OTL excels with high-impedance and/or efficient headphones. So different amps for different jobs, so to speak.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Apart from the sonics, I think it is important to remember that the EL3N amp is a transformer-coupled amp while the OTL has no output transformer. Hence the EL3N will be much better with low-impedance and/or inefficient headphones, while the OTL excels with high-impedance and/or efficient headphones. So different amps for different jobs, so to speak.


Understood. My questions are more around the sound signatures of the amps, say perhaps with an efficient headphone such as the HD800. I can't imagine something like the HD800 sounds bad with the EL3N just because it has sensitivity of 102 dB/1V and impedance of 300 ohms at 1Khz.

I also appreciate the GOTL might not be the best amp for the LCD-4. Those are really power hungry headphones, but the 300B seems to mate with those headphones better than any other headphone I've tried with that amp. Not just the sound quality, but the black background quietness.

When I get the GOTL, I'll invite my friend to come over with his high-impedance headphones and we'll give them a try.


----------



## leftside (Jun 14, 2018)

@gibosi what would you say makes a headphone inefficient? For example if I look at the specs of the Focal Utopia:
Impedance: 80 Ohms
Sensitivity: 104dB SPL / 1mW @ 1kHz

The impedance is quite low, but the sensitivity is quite high and therefore will probably be quite efficient and easy to drive.

The LCD-3 are quite hard to drive:​Impedance: 110 ohms
Sensitivity: 102dB/1mw

The LCD-4 are very hard to drive (I need to turn up the volume more on my preamp with the LCD-4 than the LCD-3 to get the same output level):
Impedance: 200 ohms
Sensitivity: 97 dB/1mW

From my experience, I believe the sensitivity is more important than the impedance in determining if a headphone is easier to drive or not.  But perhaps there is more at play? I'm certainly not an expert in this area - this is just from my own experience with headphones I've listened to (both my own and friends)


----------



## gibosi (Jun 14, 2018)

leftside said:


> @gibosi what would you say makes a headphone inefficient? For example if I look at the specs of the Focal Utopia:
> Impedance: 80 Ohms
> Sensitivity: 104dB SPL / 1mW @ 1kHz
> 
> ...



I tend to believe that you are correct, sensitivity is more important than impedance in determining if a headphone is easier to drive or not. But I can only speak generally as I don't have experience with lots of headphones. In fact, I have only the HD700. But I think some of the others here, who "roll" headphones, should be able to provide a better answer....


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 15, 2018)

leftside said:


> Do you prefer one amp over the other? Or maybe it's a mood thing and one day you prefer one over the other? Or maybe the EL3N is your preferred amp and you use the GOTL when you want to tube roll?
> 
> Is there much of a difference in sound to the amps? If so, if you roll in the EL3N tubes to the GOTL does that make the GOTL sound more like the EL3N amp?​



I prefer the EL3N amp with My planar headphones ZMF Ori and I also like it in one tube mode with my Grado RS1

No need to roll the EL3N tubes in the OTL amp...they sound good in the OTL amp as driver tubes...but they sound much better in the transformer coupled amp.

With my ZMF Ori the EL3N amp has much better control of the drivers and this delivers much better bass IMO.


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> I have also installed a couple of more SS hard drives in this old Coolermaster server case....this behemoth must be 15 years old....it has transformed from a gaming machine into holding all of my music files...it is ugly, but a very effective case.



I really want to build one of those cute little cube shaped ITX computers, but I want it to be SSD storage only and the capacities aren't quite there yet for me.


----------



## 2359glenn

With my ZMF Ori the EL3N amp has much better control of the drivers and this delivers much better bass IMO.[/QUOTE]

The beauty of the low impedance output of a transformer coupled amp. This amp can be wired to drive speakers it is barley being used
driving most headphones.


----------



## SonicTrance

gibosi said:


> I tend to believe that you are correct, sensitivity is more important than impedance in determining if a headphone is easier to drive or not. But I can only speak generally as I don't have experience with lots of headphones. In fact, I have only the HD700. But I think some of the others here, who "roll" headphones, should be able to provide a better answer....


It’s a combination of the two. Low sensitivity makes the headphone inefficient, takes more power to drive. Low impedance puts a higher load on the amp. It’s ohms law, lower resistance equals more current through the load (headphones)


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> I tend to believe that you are correct, sensitivity is more important than impedance in determining if a headphone is easier to drive or not. But I can only speak generally as I don't have experience with lots of headphones. In fact, I have only the HD700. But I think some of the others here, who "roll" headphones, should be able to provide a better answer....



Ken, you have to join the headphone rolling club. There is no way to switch, i.e. the HD 800 (very bright) and LCD-3/4 (very dark), sound signature by tube or amp rolling.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Ken, you have to join the headphone rolling club. There is no way to switch, i.e. the HD 800 (very bright) and LCD-3/4 (very dark), sound signature by tube or amp rolling.



I am honored to be invited into such a prestigious club, and maybe if I was younger and still working, I could accept your kind invitation. However, now that I am an old geezer living on a fixed income, rolling headphones is way more than my wallet can handle...  lol


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 17, 2018)

.


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> Ken, you have to join the headphone rolling club. There is no way to switch, i.e. the HD 800 (very bright) and LCD-3/4 (very dark), sound signature by tube or amp rolling.



The HD-800s are not bright hooked to the right amplifier.


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy fathers day.


----------



## whirlwind

Happy Fathers Day


----------



## wazzupi

Happy Fathers day !


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Happy Fathers Day


Happy GEC 6AS7G Joe.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Ken, you have to join the headphone rolling club. There is no way to switch, i.e. the HD 800 (very bright) and LCD-3/4 (very dark), sound signature by tube or amp rolling.


Happy grandfathers day! One of my grandsons has a LCD3. Even though the bass was the best I've heard, I did find it dark.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Happy GEC 6AS7G Joe.



Yes, same to you Arnold.
Special days like this is when I like to put these tubes in and enjoy my favorite albums.


----------



## attmci (Jun 18, 2018)

mordy said:


> Happy grandfathers day! One of my grandsons has a LCD3. Even though the bass was the best I've heard, I did find it dark.



Nope, not there yet.

I love the LCD-3F with cheap aftermarket cable. I like the HD 800 with either black dragon or ALO cable.

Bright/dark are all relative. I am not going to replace these with something in the "middle". All personal preference.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> The HD-800s are not bright hooked to the right amplifier.


The airiness and detail of the 300B opens up the LCD-4's (and LCD-3's) beautifully. Every other headphone I've listened to sounds a little empty or hollow compared to these, or perhaps it's just the darkness I hear/like with the Audeze. I have to admit I do have a certainly affinity to the dark things in life.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I have found the Ether to be a nice middle of the road solution that works well enough for everything.  It's fast by planar standards so you don't feel like you are missing out on the strengths of the HD800 all that much, and it has most of the bass and some of the more mellow presentation of the LCDs.  After upgrading the cable I found the voicing pretty close to ideal for most material.  This put an end to switching between different headphones for me.  Until recently I think I went almost two years without pulling the Ether cable plug from the jack of the 45.  A need to track down the source of an ongoing channel imbalance issue broke the streak finally.  I thought maybe that cable I like so much might have been the cause, but discovered to my dismay the actual cause might be much worse than that.


----------



## Phantaminum

Xcalibur255 said:


> I have found the Ether to be a nice middle of the road solution that works well enough for everything.  It's fast by planar standards so you don't feel like you are missing out on the strengths of the HD800 all that much, and it has most of the bass and some of the more mellow presentation of the LCDs.  After upgrading the cable I found the voicing pretty close to ideal for most material.  This put an end to switching between different headphones for me.  Until recently I think I went almost two years without pulling the Ether cable plug from the jack of the 45.  A need to track down the source of an ongoing channel imbalance issue broke the streak finally.  I thought maybe that cable I like so much might have been the cause, but discovered to my dismay the actual cause might be much worse than that.



I have Mr.Speakers Aeon Flow Open and love the way he voiced those headphones. I’ve been thinking of possibly selling the AFO and using the funds towards the Ether Flows. I may just wait until I receive the amp to see how well it runs the AFO but I have the notion that I may be doubling on my Auteurs with a similar sounding headphone.


----------



## Monsterzero

So good im listening on a bright sunny afternoon,something I never do.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> So good im listening on a bright sunny afternoon,something I never do.



What tubes are you using?


----------



## Monsterzero

All the tubes Ive purchased havent arrived yet,so currently using

Mullard GZ32 rectifier
Tung Sol 6su7gty driver
 pair of Chathams & RCAs in rear

Its extremely detailed and clear...massive soundstage,both in width and depth. The RCAs are imparting a bit of grain on the lower end,but its not a deal breaker.
When I have more funds I might add some other warm tubes to mix and match for my brighter headphones.


----------



## wazzupi

Monsterzero said:


> All the tubes Ive purchased havent arrived yet,so currently using
> 
> Mullard GZ32 rectifier
> Tung Sol 6su7gty driver
> ...


Just remember don't be like me and buy almost 1100 dollars worth of tubes (especially before you get your amp).


----------



## wazzupi

Phantaminum said:


> I have Mr.Speakers Aeon Flow Open and love the way he voiced those headphones. I’ve been thinking of possibly selling the AFO and using the funds towards the Ether Flows. I may just wait until I receive the amp to see how well it runs the AFO but I have the notion that I may be doubling on my Auteurs with a similar sounding headphone.


Afo and ethers don't sound alike.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> All the tubes Ive purchased havent arrived yet,so currently using
> 
> Mullard GZ32 rectifier
> Tung Sol 6su7gty driver
> ...



Might try the six 6BX7s these are good sounding tubes for cheap. At least compared to good 6AS7 types.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Might try the six 6BX7s these are good sounding tubes for cheap. At least compared to good 6AS7 types.



Yep,theyre en route,taking longer to arrive from here in the states than it took for the Mullard did all the way from the UK.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Yep,theyre en route,taking longer to arrive from here in the states than it took for the Mullard did all the way from the UK.



Makes no sense USPS hard at work.


----------



## wazzupi

2359glenn said:


> Makes no sense USPS hard at work.


It took over a month for usps to deliver my eikons from zmf in chicago.

It took my mouse feet(its a gaming thing) to arrive in the United states and to my city 2 days ! It took customs 3 weeks to release my package. Which was literally an envelope with a small plastic bag. I clearly bought a bag of cocaine from EU you assholes !! Sorry for the rant. I hate usps.


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> When I have more funds I might add some other warm tubes to mix and match for my brighter headphones.



Mullard ECC31 has great low end capability, and resolution, along with sweet but controlled high end.
Highly recommended for bright recordings and/or headphones.
But I use it often for anything and everything. IMO, top notch driver for GOTL.


----------



## Monsterzero

rnros said:


> Mullard ECC31



What is a fair price for one,and what voltage setting do they require?


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> What is a fair price for one,and what voltage setting do they require?



Typically $110 to $130 for NOS, 6 volt, ECC31/6N7 adapter.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> So good im listening on a bright sunny afternoon,something I never do.



Nice pic Monster.

I have a GZ32 Mullard in my EL3N amp as a rectifier right now, but have not listened my amp much because of being sick....maybe tonight I will get some listening time.

The HD250 looks interesting, I know nothing about it....what is its sound signature like ?


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 18, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> Nice pic Monster.
> 
> I have a GZ32 Mullard in my EL3N amp as a rectifier right now, but have not listened my amp much because of being sick....maybe tonight I will get some listening time.
> 
> The HD250 looks interesting, I know nothing about it....what is its sound signature like ?


Hope you feel better.
It's a very balanced sound with great extension on both ends, digs down deep.
Tonally solid  very wide and deep staging  especially for a closed back.
Sennheiser announced they're bringing it out of retirement, but not many details have surfaced yet .
There's a dedicated HD250 thread, should be on the first page in headphone section.
IMO it's the biggest sleeper headphone I have heard, and it scales very well, as I'm learning.

Its a great all-arounder,enjoy it much more than HD650/6xx


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks for all of the info.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Sittard/Holland GZ34 in the house! I have been listening to it for the last 3 hours and it is super addictive, this really brings the the EL3N up a few notches. I have another Mullard GZ32 which I still have not tried.


----------



## 2359glenn

Are those EL6 you are using for outputs?? How does it sound with the EL6?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Are those EL6 you are using for outputs?? How does it sound with the EL6?



Yep, those look like EL6 to me also...wondering the same...how do they sound.


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> Are those EL6 you are using for outputs?? How does it sound with the EL6?





whirlwind said:


> Yep, those look like EL6 to me also...wondering the same...how do they sound.



Yup, those are EL6. They sound really similar to the EL3N (clean, dynamic, great vocals, punchy bass & sub bass) but I feel they add slightly more body to the sound. I use slightly less gain when driving the Abyss Phi.

GZ34 + EL3N + EL6 + Abyss Phi =  Audio bliss..


----------



## Sound Trooper

All of the sudden I now have the following tubes:

- 8 x EL3N
- 2 x EL3 (straight bottle)
- 4 x EL6
- 1 x Sittard/Holland Philips GZ34
- 1 x Mullard GZ32 brown base
- 1 x 3DG4 (came with the amp)

I’ll stop the tube spree at such but will still be on the look out if something special comes along.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Infinity said:


> All of the sudden I now have the following tubes:
> 
> - 8 x EL3N
> - 2 x EL3 (straight bottle)
> ...




Thanks for the info.
I have the GZ32 in my amp at the moment and it sounds very good also.

I may at some time try a pair of EL6


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Thanks for the info.
> I have the GZ32 in my amp at the moment and it sounds very good also.
> 
> I may at some time try a pair of EL6



I would expect the GZ32 to have a warmer/tubish signature?


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 19, 2018)

I do not have a GZ34...but you hit the nail on the head as far as the sound of the GZ32   

Warm, no hint of any brightness, yet very, very detailed.

Listening to the new Buddy Guy album.  Featuring Jeff Beck, Keith Richards, Mick Jagger, James Bay
If there is a better 81 year old player...I want to hear him.  Epic album.


----------



## mordy

Sound Infinity said:


> Yup, those are EL6. They sound really similar to the EL3N (clean, dynamic, great vocals, punchy bass & sub bass) but I feel they add slightly more body to the sound. I use slightly less gain when driving the Abyss Phi.
> 
> GZ34 + EL3N + EL6 + Abyss Phi =  Audio bliss..


Agree with the description of the sound of the EL6 (which sounds similar to the EL12 which uses a different base).
What's left to explore is the EL54:
https://www.btb-elektronik.de/search?filter=EL54
and maybe some EL side contact variants with anode caps such as the Telefunken EL6 Spez:




What is intriguing is that the EL12 Spez is considered superior to the EL12.
Did anybody compare the Telefunken straight glass EL3 tubes to the ST EL3N?


----------



## 2359glenn

Guess there are more tube rolling options with the EL3N amp then I originally thought.


----------



## mordy (Jun 19, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Guess there are more tube rolling options with the EL3N amp then I originally thought.


Could the EL3N handle this?




6.3V, 1.9A, 45W
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el51.html


----------



## 2359glenn

Probably would work but no tube base available to make a adapter with the anode lead.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> I do not have a GZ34...but you hit the nail on the head as far as the sound of the GZ32
> 
> Warm, no hint of any brightness, yet very, very detailed.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your description on the GZ32. 

Treble on the GZ34 sounds smoother (but not rolled off) when compared to the 3DG4.


----------



## mordy (Jun 19, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Probably would work but no tube base available to make a adapter with the anode lead.


I would not be surprised of Mrs Xuling could make up these adapters in a day or so - she did just that with custom adapters for the EL32/CV1052 anode cap tubes that's all the rage on the Euforia thread..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...843738?hash=item2ee5db33da:g:DjQAAOSwgNRV8DUh

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...624920?hash=item2f1ad4ed58:g:xD4AAOSwPN9a-j-g


These adapters will not be the same quality as the Yamamoto but acceptable, in case somebody wants to try these tubes.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jun 20, 2018)

wazzupi said:


> Afo and ethers don't sound alike.



Throw me a line here, lol. In your experience what are the differences between the headphones other than the Ether Flows being more open and faster?


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jun 20, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> Listening to the new Buddy Guy album.  Featuring Jeff Beck, Keith Richards, Mick Jagger, James Bay
> If there is a better 81 year old player...I want to hear him.  Epic album.




WOW!!!

Heading over to buy this CD right NOW   

,


----------



## mordy (Jun 20, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> WOW!!!
> 
> Heading over to buy this CD right NOW
> 
> ,



Is there a marked difference in sound quality between YouTube and the CD?


----------



## gibosi (Jun 21, 2018)

Adapters for European B4 based 4-volt rectifiers:

If you simply plug a 4-volt rectifier into a 5-volt circuit, the tube will likely burn out in short order. And therefore, in order to use them in 5-volt circuits, these 4-volt rectifiers require adapters incorporating power resisters to reduce the 5 volts provided by the amp down to 4. For each rectifier, the size of the power resister can be calculated based on the heater current. Unlike AZ4 and AZ12 rectifiers, all of which draw 2.2 amps, the B4 based rectifiers I have range from 2.0 amps to 4.0 amps. And this presents a problem: It is impossible to size one power resister that will work for all of them.

Most of the Chinese-made B4 adapters I see on eBay are labeled U18 to 5U4G. But since the U18, which draws 3.75 amps is very rare, I wonder if the vendor has actually sized it for the U18/20, which draws 2.8 amps. Regardless, since the heater current for the B4 rectifiers I own ranges from 2.0 amps to 4.0 amps, this adapter is not optimal for most of them.

Fortunately, it just so happens that a Glenn amp with the American transformer has a 3.8V tap which is used for the 3DG4. And thus, a simple pin-adapter, translating a B4 rectifier to a 3DG4, will provide any 4.0 volt B4 rectifier with 3.8 volts, within 5% of spec, that is, very close. And furthermore, it is safer.

I believe the situation is a little different for those using 5-volt recitifiers with Lundahl transformers, so if you have this configuration, you might want to touch base with Glenn.

In order to build these adapters, it is necessary to have round B4 sockets that fit nicely into an octal base, but finding these has proven to be difficult. As these are European bases, they are scarce to non-existent in the US and in China. Fortunately, @attmci found a vendor on eBay, "ein_sof", based in Yahinivo, Bulgaria, who appears to have ready access to these sockets and he made me a couple adapters.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-FW4-500-to-3DG4-Tube-socket-converter-adapter/283001858447

I have tried these in my amp and they are working fine.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> Guess there are more tube rolling options with the EL3N amp then I originally thought.



Assuming then that the EL5 would also be an option?


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> I would not be surprised of Mrs Xuling could make up these adapters in a day or so - she did just that with custom adapters for the EL32/CV1052 anode cap tubes that's all the rage on the Euforia thread..
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...843738?hash=item2ee5db33da:g:DjQAAOSwgNRV8DUh
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...624920?hash=item2f1ad4ed58:g:xD4AAOSwPN9a-j-g
> ...



Or, might be easier to remove and rewire the existing base.
If the base is already loose, it would be, if the adhesive bond is still solid, maybe not.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jun 21, 2018)

gibosi said:


> Adapters for European B-4 based 4-volt rectifiers:
> 
> If you simply plug a 4-volt rectifier into a 5-volt circuit, the tube will likely burn out in short order. And therefore, in order to use these in 5-volt circuits, these 4-volt rectifiers require adapters incorporating power resisters to reduce the 5 volts provided by the amp down to 4. For each rectifier, the size of the power resister can be calculated based on the heater current. Unlike AZ4 and AZ12 rectifiers, all of which draw 2.2 amps, the B-4 based rectifiers I have range from 2.0 amps to 4.0 amps. And this presents a problem: It is impossible to size one power resister that will work for all of them.
> 
> ...



In OTL and EL3N amps that use a Lundahl transformer I use resistors that drop 6.3 to 5 and 3.3 that should work with this rectifier adapter.
But I might discontinue the option to use the 3DG4. There is no Love for the 3DG4 so I am wasting time and money putting this option in future amps.
Amps that have the US transformer will still have the 3DG4 option as the tap on the 5 volt winding is already there.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> In OTL and EL3N amps that use a Lundahl transformer I use resistors that drop 6.3 to 5 and 3.3 that should work with this rectifier adapter.
> But I might discontinue the option to use the 3DG4. There is no Love for the 3DG4 so I am wasting time and money putting this option in future amps.
> Amps that have the US transformer will still have the 3DG4 option as the tap on the 5 volt winding is already there.




Trivia or not?
Massdrop has sold almost 48,000 of their Sennheiser HD650 headphones.
I am one of the customers and very happy with it.


----------



## jekjek

mordy said:


> Trivia or not?
> Massdrop has sold almost 48,000 of their Sennheiser HD650 headphones.
> I am one of the customers and very happy with it.


Its a very good headphone mordy
Two thumbs up


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Trivia or not?
> Massdrop has sold almost 48,000 of their Sennheiser HD650 headphones.
> I am one of the customers and very happy with it.





jekjek said:


> Its a very good headphone mordy
> Two thumbs up



It's a fantastic headphones and one of my favorites. Out of all the headphones that have gone and come only the HD650 and the E-Mu Teaks have been a mainstay. I've never had a chance to listen to them on an OTL but they sound great out of a Jotunheim and Massdrops Cavalli Tube Hybrid.

I'm sure they will sound heavenly out of Glenn's OTL amp.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> It's a fantastic headphones and one of my favorites. Out of all the headphones that have gone and come only the HD650 and the E-Mu Teaks have been a mainstay. I've never had a chance to listen to them on an OTL but they sound great out of a Jotunheim and Massdrops Cavalli Tube Hybrid.
> 
> I'm sure they will sound heavenly out of Glenn's OTL amp.



Yes, you will indeed like the HD650 from Glenn's OTL


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Yes, you will indeed like the HD650 from Glenn's OTL


Thanks for all the encouragement. These headphones are held in such a high regard that the Massdrop version sells for much more on eBay than what you could buy it for from Massdrop. Their price is $200 shipped, and some people are paying over $300 for the same thing.
Sounds like tube prices, eh?


----------



## Sound Trooper (Jun 21, 2018)

I have a pair of the Massdrop HD 6XX as well and love them, I also feel that they are less veiled as compared to the old HD 650. I love listening to vocal tracks on the HD 6XX as they are so intimate and relaxing, the weight (or lack of it) makes it super comfortable to wear. I’m definitely keeping my pair for a long time.

The new HD 58X is also interesting, it has a bit more sub-bass than the HD 6XX and what looks like a cleaner treble. I’m eager to see how it compares with the HD 6XX. 

I reckon Massdrop would eventually launch a HD 8XX as well and that would be Super interesting!


----------



## Sound Trooper

I spent 2 mesmerising hours last night listening to the GEL3N last night with the TH900 Mk2. The Fostex sounds effortless when driven by the EL6 and GZ34 combination and this setup is super dynamic with punchy bass and clean/controlled highs, I have not heard the TH900 Mk2 sound better. Electronic music from Clean Bandit, Jamiroquai and Daft Punk sounds wonderful and I was transported into a land of electronica.. 

I honestly couldn’t be happier with the GEL3N.


----------



## wkahwkah

Hello guys
I'm finally joining the club!!! Purchased Yates7592's OTL and it was sent to Glenn to get voltage changed to 110v. Amp finally arrived yesterday! Very impressed looking amp!
I still have alot to learn about tubes so will be asking lots of questions as it is my first true OTL tube amp.
Having tube rectifier does add bit of complication with tube choices when using with Lundahl transformer. it seems fine with 6x 6bx7 but with 6080, 6AS7, or 6336 amp draw is close or over 13 amps.

Currently rocking with Cossor 53ku fat bottle, Foton 6H8C (6SN7GT), and 6x RCA 6BX7GT


----------



## mordy

wkahwkah said:


> Hello guys
> I'm finally joining the club!!! Purchased Yates7592's OTL and it was sent to Glenn to get voltage changed to 110v. Amp finally arrived yesterday! Very impressed looking amp!
> I still have alot to learn about tubes so will be asking lots of questions as it is my first true OTL tube amp.
> Having tube rectifier does add bit of complication with tube choices when using with Lundahl transformer. it seems fine with 6x 6bx7 but with 6080, 6AS7, or 6336 amp draw is close or over 13 amps.
> ...


Hi wk,
Welcome to the thread and congrats on your purchase! So the mystery is finally solved where the amp went!
As long as you stay with not more than 13A current draw of tubes you should have no problems with the Lundahl transformer.
The 6BX7 are 1.5A; the 6080/6AS7 are 2.5A, the 6336 5A, and the 6H8C/6SN7 are 0.6A.


----------



## wkahwkah

mordy said:


> Hi wk,
> Welcome to the thread and congrats on your purchase! So the mystery is finally solved where the amp went!
> As long as you stay with not more than 13A current draw of tubes you should have no problems with the Lundahl transformer.
> The 6BX7 are 1.5A; the 6080/6AS7 are 2.5A, the 6336 5A, and the 6H8C/6SN7 are 0.6A.



Hi Mordy, thanks very much.
My understanding is 13A current draw includes the rectifier. 5AW4 draws 3.7A, 5U4GB draws 3A, 53ku draws 2.8A, and gz32 draws 2A, etc but since they're 5V, not sure what the actual draw at 6.3V.
with 6x 6bx7= 9A, 4A should be enough for the driver+ rectifier but with 4x 6080/6AS7 or 2x 6336 puts at 10A so only leaves 3A for the driver and rectifier. Probably could use hexfred rectifier and
not worry about the tube rectifier.


----------



## rnros

wkahwkah said:


> Hi Mordy, thanks very much.
> My understanding is 13A current draw includes the rectifier. 5AW4 draws 3.7A, 5U4GB draws 3A, 53ku draws 2.8A, and gz32 draws 2A, etc but since they're 5V, not sure what the actual draw at 6.3V.
> with 6x 6bx7= 9A, 4A should be enough for the driver+ rectifier but with 4x 6080/6AS7 or 2x 6336 puts at 10A so only leaves 3A for the driver and rectifier. Probably could use hexfred rectifier and
> not worry about the tube rectifier.



First, congrats on the GOTL, looks good to the eye, sounds even better to the ear.
I have nothing but good things to say about GOTL. Enjoy!  : )

On the 13A max current draw, I had asked a similar question, here is Glenn's response:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1143#post-13912667


----------



## 2359glenn

wkahwkah said:


> Hello guys
> I'm finally joining the club!!! Purchased Yates7592's OTL and it was sent to Glenn to get voltage changed to 110v. Amp finally arrived yesterday! Very impressed looking amp!
> I still have alot to learn about tubes so will be asking lots of questions as it is my first true OTL tube amp.
> Having tube rectifier does add bit of complication with tube choices when using with Lundahl transformer. it seems fine with 6x 6bx7 but with 6080, 6AS7, or 6336 amp draw is close or over 13 amps.
> ...



The Amp will be fine if you use
six 6BL7/6BX7s
Four 6AS7 types
or two 6336

This amp has two $200 Duelund coupling capacitors Nice


----------



## whirlwind

wkahwkah said:


> Hello guys
> I'm finally joining the club!!! Purchased Yates7592's OTL and it was sent to Glenn to get voltage changed to 110v. Amp finally arrived yesterday! Very impressed looking amp!
> I still have alot to learn about tubes so will be asking lots of questions as it is my first true OTL tube amp.
> Having tube rectifier does add bit of complication with tube choices when using with Lundahl transformer. it seems fine with 6x 6bx7 but with 6080, 6AS7, or 6336 amp draw is close or over 13 amps.
> ...




Congrats .

Enjoy your amp.


----------



## wkahwkah

rnros said:


> First, congrats on the GOTL, looks good to the eye, sounds even better to the ear.
> I have nothing but good things to say about GOTL. Enjoy!  : )
> 
> On the 13A max current draw, I had asked a similar question, here is Glenn's response:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1143#post-13912667



I thought I read somewhere going little over 13A was okay, definitely putting in my note. This thread contains so much information!



2359glenn said:


> The Amp will be fine if you use
> six 6BL7/6BX7s
> Four 6AS7 types
> or two 6336
> ...



Thanks Glenn, I was just little worried when paring 5AW4 with 2x6336b since it will be 13.7A + driver.



whirlwind said:


> Congrats .
> 
> Enjoy your amp.



Thank you very much!


----------



## 2359glenn

A little over is no big deal.
Figure four 6AS7 = 10 amps + rectifier = 13 and the 6SN7 .6 so 13.6 no big deal.
The high voltage secondary is 830 ma the electronics of the amp will not draw no were near that so it leaves a little more for the filaments.


----------



## mordy

wkahwkah said:


> Hi Mordy, thanks very much.
> My understanding is 13A current draw includes the rectifier. 5AW4 draws 3.7A, 5U4GB draws 3A, 53ku draws 2.8A, and gz32 draws 2A, etc but since they're 5V, not sure what the actual draw at 6.3V.
> with 6x 6bx7= 9A, 4A should be enough for the driver+ rectifier but with 4x 6080/6AS7 or 2x 6336 puts at 10A so only leaves 3A for the driver and rectifier. Probably could use hexfred rectifier and
> not worry about the tube rectifier.


I am sure than the designer, 2359glenn, will be happy to answer all your questions. After all, he is the best one to ask about his amp.


----------



## Monsterzero

Has anyone else tried a Tung-Sol 6SU7GTY? 
Coupled with the Mullard GZ32 and 6 6bx7s its an awesome combo. I actually prefer it to c3g,though they sound quite similar. The TS has slightly better soundstage. It also has zero grain on the bottom end with my Atticus,which I was picking up slightly with the c3g. Both hit like a truck and are very detailed.

Got mine here
I believe she has at least one left.


----------



## 2359glenn

In the 50+ years of building amps I have never tried a 6SU7 going to have to try one.


----------



## Monsterzero

@2359glenn

My brother wants to have a GOTL built,but he knows much less about tubes than I and he feels my build is "overkill".
His main headphone is the ZMF Auteur(lucky S.O.B.) He also says he doesnt have a lot of time to roll tubes.

With all that said can you recommend a build for him? Im guessing he will want the Lundahl option for sure.

He isnt a member here but I will email him the link to your response. Also what is the current wait time?


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> @2359glenn
> 
> My brother wants to have a GOTL built,but he knows much less about tubes than I and he feels my build is "overkill".
> His main headphone is the ZMF Auteur(lucky S.O.B.) He also says he doesnt have a lot of time to roll tubes.
> ...



He needs the basic model just  3 or 4 tubes. 2 output tube sockets one 6SN7 and maybe a rectifier tube or maybe SS HEXFREDs
So 2 output tubes 6AS7 types and a 6SN7 type driver. This is all that's needed to have a good sounding amp.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I own a pair Teak Auteur and going Lundahl option 3Cg option, and pla on using stock setup and 6BL7GTA  or 4 or  Glenn's affordable favorite's 6H13C.

I believe you don't have go crazy with expensive tubes to get great sound. I heard some great affordable tubes at whirlwind's setup.


----------



## 2359glenn

FunctionalDoc said:


> I own a pair Teak Auteur and going Lundahl option 3Cg option, and pla on using stock setup and 6BL7GTA  or 4 or  Glenn's affordable favorite's 6H13C.
> 
> I believe you don't have go crazy with expensive tubes to get great sound. I heard some great affordable tubes at whirlwind's setup.



I don't believe that expensive tubes like GEC sound that much better to justify the price.
Cheep 6BX7s can sound better.


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 23, 2018)

Great way to start your Saturday morning.


----------



## 2359glenn

What is that nice rectifier you are using?


----------



## gibosi

I believe it is a Loewe Radio AZ12.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> What is that nice rectifier you are using?



Just as Ken says.
Loewe Radio AZ12


----------



## Monsterzero

Does anyone with the GOTL have a Western Electric 422A rectifier,and if so is it really that much better than say,for example a Mullard GZ32 to warrant the price difference?


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Does anyone with the GOTL have a Western Electric 422A rectifier,and if so is it really that much better than say,for example a Mullard GZ32 to warrant the price difference?


Go with the WE 422A. 

This is the lowest price for a 422A: https://www.ebay.com/itm/173369443512?rmvSB=true


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Does anyone with the GOTL have a Western Electric 422A rectifier,and if so is it really that much better than say,for example a Mullard GZ32 to warrant the price difference?



The WE422A blows the GZ32 away the best sounding rectifier I ever heard!!
That WE422A for $61.38 is not a 422A it is just a 5U4 the WE422A is indirect heated and has dimples on the plates like the 421A.
Here is a real one but a crazy price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-We...984345?hash=item23a31603d9:g:RkUAAOSwpzVaq0bh


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> Go with the WE 422A.
> 
> This is the lowest price for a 422A: https://www.ebay.com/itm/173369443512?rmvSB=true



Im guessing the link you shared has to be somewhat different in sound vs. the WE 422a that goes for $500.00?

I already have the GZ32 and am enjoying it very much. More of a curiosity mainly piqued by reading DubStep girl's rectifier thread.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> The WE422A blows the GZ32 away the best sounding rectifier I ever heard!!
> 
> Here is a real one but a crazy price.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-We...984345?hash=item23a31603d9:g:RkUAAOSwpzVaq0bh



OK,so is the difference in SQ worth the price tag?


----------



## gibosi

There is no guarantee that it will be worth $500 to YOU. And if you are willing to pay that price there are other worthy contenders. For example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-TELEFUNKEN-RGN4004-mesh-plates-used-Rare/202331816602

I for one would be very grateful if you purchase both the WE422A and the Telefunken RGN4004 and post your impressions.


----------



## Rossliew

I've had the WE422A (dimpled plates) in my ex-GOTL before and i find the sound very minty cool..not something i particularly enjoyed with the amp. And for the price, it was kinda disappointing. Having said that, other ears may find it enjoyable.


----------



## Monsterzero

Rossliew said:


> I've had the WE422A (dimpled plates) in my ex-GOTL before and i find the sound very minty cool..not something i particularly enjoyed with the amp. And for the price, it was kinda disappointing. Having said that, other ears may find it enjoyable.



Thats interesting. DSG describes the GZ34 as "minty cool" but not the WE422a. The GZ34 is the other tube im interested in getting to brighten up my warmer headphones.
If I may ask,what headphones were you driving when you owned the GOTL+WE422a?


----------



## Rossliew

Monsterzero said:


> Thats interesting. DSG describes the GZ34 as "minty cool" but not the WE422a. The GZ34 is the other tube im interested in getting to brighten up my warmer headphones.
> If I may ask,what headphones were you driving when you owned the GOTL+WE422a?



Was using my HD600s. Didn't really like the WE422 but have since sold off all my tubes and amp.


----------



## mordy

I have no experience with rectifiers - the GOTL amp I ordered has a solid state HEXFRED rectifier.
Somebody compared the HEXFRED sound to a certain Cossor tube. Can the HEXFRED rectifiers be tuned to sound a certain way?


----------



## leftside

@Monsterzero Might want to try rolling the driver tube and power tubes before the rectifier tube. I find the rectifier tube to make the least difference. Perhaps try a Telefunken 12au7 or Telefunken 12ax7. You can pay crazy prices for early and mid 1950's versions of these tubes, but the 1960's versions are still very good. My main system tends to be quite warm, so I like to have a Telefunken somewhere in the tube chain.

Take a look on Brent Jessee's site for details, and then see if you can find these tubes (cheaper usually) elsewhere:
http://www.audiotubes.com/12au7.htm
http://www.audiotubes.com/12ax7.htm


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> OK,so is the difference in SQ worth the price tag?


I was kidding . I cannot believe a guy has 100% rating at eBay sale those tubes as 422A. The prices of tubes are mainly determined by market. The WE 422A (as well as 474A/474B) are very rare tubes.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> @Monsterzero Might want to try rolling the driver tube and power tubes before the rectifier tube. I find the rectifier tube to make the least difference. Perhaps try a Telefunken 12au7 or Telefunken 12ax7. You can pay crazy prices for early and mid 1950's versions of these tubes, but the 1960's versions are still very good. My main system tends to be quite warm, so I like to have a Telefunken somewhere in the tube chain.



In the Glenn OTL, I find that rectifiers can make a significant difference. However, it is my understanding that this is not true with respect to some other amps...

And speaking of Telefunken, initially I considered the Cossor 53KU to be a good match for the embossed Telefunken C3g, but recently have begun to notice that the midrange, especially vocals, is too subdued. So I figured I needed to switch to a rectifier with a more forward midrange than the Cossor, but still a bit dark, and decided to pop in a Mullard GZ32. So far so good.


----------



## Monsterzero

I really like the GZ32 as well,but im saving my nickels for WE 422a....might take awhile


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> In the Glenn OTL, I find that rectifiers can make a significant difference. However, it is my understanding that this is not true with respect to some other amps...
> 
> And speaking of Telefunken, initially I considered the Cossor 53KU to be a good match for the embossed Telefunken C3g, but recently have begun to notice that the midrange, especially vocals, is too subdued. So I figured I needed to switch to a rectifier with a more forward midrange than the Cossor, but still a bit dark, and decided to pop in a Mullard GZ32. So far so good.


Damn - so, I need to order my GOTL with a tube rectifier then and not the solid state. Well, I do have plenty of rectifiers, so this does seem the obvious choice...


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> I really like the GZ32 as well,but im saving my nickels for WE 422a....might take awhile



Or how about this beauty, from the mid-1930s, with mesh plates?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KL77305-KL...RGN4004-TELEFUNKEN-NOS-KL-77-305/253680694629


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Or how about this beauty, from the mid-1930s, with mesh plates?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/KL77305-KL...RGN4004-TELEFUNKEN-NOS-KL-77-305/253680694629


Yeah I saw the last uber expensive tube you posted but couldn't find any mention of it in any thread.
I guess if I knew for sure that an 800.00 tube was head and shoulders above the Western Electric I might be inclined, but I think the WE will be the one, besides I need to get back into salt water aquariums  and that's no cheap hobby either


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah I saw the last uber expensive tube you posted but couldn't find any mention of it in any thread.
> I guess if I knew for sure that an 800.00 tube was head and shoulders above the Western Electric I might be inclined, but I think the WE will be the one, besides I need to get back into salt water aquariums  and that's no cheap hobby either



Both the Telefunken and Klangfilm tubes are B4-based 4-volt rectifiers, and thus they require an adapter:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1412#post-14315557

Given their sky-high price and the fact that they require adapters to be used in 5-volt amps, it could very well be that no one on head-fi has tried them. Wouldn't you like to be the first?


----------



## gibosi

All joking aside, my two cents: There is no one rectifier that is the best in all systems, just as there is no one driver or no one output tube that is the best. In the end, it comes down to synergy. How well does the sound of the rectifier complement the sound of the rest of the system. So if I were to spend $500, or even $800, for one rectifier, I know that in some configurations it simply won't sound all that good. For example, while both the U52 and the Cossor 53KU are considered among the very best rectifiers, neither sounds all that good with the Telefunken C3g. The relatively cheap GZ32 sounds much better.

So if you want to obtain the most benefit from rolling rectifiers, my advice is to get lots of them. And of course, this means not spending all your money on only one or two. And then, when you make changes in the rest of your system, be it a new driver or new headphones, as long as you have a decent assortment of rectifiers, you can probably find one that makes your system shine on.


----------



## whirlwind

I am guessing here, but I am thinking you have heard more 4 volt rectifiers than anybody Ken.


----------



## gibosi

Well... I own more than 30 different 4-volt rectifiers, so that just might be true.


----------



## wazzupi

I can't wait to hear my onyx through the Glenn OTL AMP !!!!!! OMG this thing makes my SS cayin IHA-6 SING so musical so spacious so detailed and yet the music is softer sounding its insane how this dac works...... ! I think I'm in love... *stares at the pavane level 3* Im running it through Monoprice USB cable Eitr Monster M850 Coaxial to Onyx ZMF 2k XLR balanced to Cayin iha-6 ZMF Balanced 2k cable to BLackwood Auteurs/ SE HD800 *impressions are from my hd800* this dac alone tamed the HD800 and Cayin iha-6 which can be quite bright and creates sibilance in already bright headphones I have yet to hear any resemblance of it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

[QUOTE="mordy, post: 14314622, member: 157386
Is there a marked difference in sound quality between YouTube and the CD?[/QUOTE]

Yes, the CD sounds better.  Does anyone listen to actual CD's anymore?

I do....but I realize that I am "old, and in the way"


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jun 27, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> Great way to start your Saturday morning.



I love love love J J Cale...may his sweet soul rest in everlasting peace.

Thanks for alerting me to the new Buddy Guy album, too, Joe.  Absolutely love it, makes me want to buy a $200.00 bottle of cognac, Wink Wink!!


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> [QUOTE="mordy, post: 14314622, member: 157386
> Is there a marked difference in sound quality between YouTube and the CD?



Yes, the CD sounds better.  Does anyone listen to actual CD's anymore?

I do....but I realize that I am "old, and in the way"  [/QUOTE]

I listen to CDs too but I am also old, and in the way.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> I listen to CDs too but I am also old, and in the way.



Three cheers for us old guys, Glenn


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

is there a website to check out these amps or are they each built as ordered?


----------



## 2359glenn

No website built to order.
What kind of a amp would you want a OTL or one with a transformer output?


----------



## wazzupi

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> is there a website to check out these amps or are they each built as ordered?


I was planning on bringing mine to the Florida meet july 14th in Orlando but it doesn't look like mine will be done by that time. I also purchased 1100 dollars worth of tubes to play around with  you should check out the thread !


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

I'm trying to read this monster thread but it will take a year lol. how is the Florida meet size wise usually? I'd so love to hear one of these.


----------



## Monsterzero

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> I'm trying to read this monster thread but it will take a year lol. how is the Florida meet size wise usually? I'd so love to hear one of these.


I had essentially the same questions before I decided to buy my GOTL without hearing it prior. 
I have zero regrets. Buy it now. Trust me  Glenn's amps are that good


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> I had essentially the same questions before I decided to buy my GOTL without hearing it prior.
> I have zero regrets. Buy it now. Trust me  Glenn's amps are that good



Same. 

Glenn's amps look amazing and the love he puts behind is is outstanding. 

While you're waiting you can just read this thread like me and the Soon hamster.


----------



## wazzupi (Jul 1, 2018)

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> I'm trying to read this monster thread but it will take a year lol. how is the Florida meet size wise usually? I'd so love to hear one of these.


Well i think we have like 10-20 people showing up do you need a link to the thread ?


----------



## whirlwind

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> I'm trying to read this monster thread but it will take a year lol. how is the Florida meet size wise usually? I'd so love to hear one of these.



Yeah, it is a large thread to go through.
When I bought my first amp from Glenn, I went through the whole thread, it took quite some time, but I got some great info out of it.
On a side note, if you like good food, this thread can curb your appetite at times.


----------



## Brooklyn70

I was told the EL3N will drive my Fostex t50rp mk2,he-500,lcd-x.   I was wondering if I can get it with a 4 pin XLR instead of 1/4 inch jack.   How do I go about getting in touch with Glenn?


----------



## 2359glenn

Brooklyn70 said:


> I was told the EL3N will drive my Fostex t50rp mk2,he-500,lcd-x.   I was wondering if I can get it with a 4 pin XLR instead of 1/4 inch jack.   How do I go about getting in touch with Glenn?



I make all my amps with a 4 pin XLR and a 1/4" TRS

Glenn


----------



## Brooklyn70

2359glenn said:


> I make all my amps with a 4 pin XLR and a 1/4" TRS
> 
> Glenn


Where do I go get more info on your stuff


----------



## whirlwind

Brooklyn70 said:


> I was told the EL3N will drive my Fostex t50rp mk2,he-500,lcd-x.   I was wondering if I can get it with a 4 pin XLR instead of 1/4 inch jack.   How do I go about getting in touch with Glenn?




Glenns amps will have 4 pin XLR and 1/4 inch......like this.


----------



## gibosi

Brooklyn70 said:


> Where do I go get more info on your stuff



Every amp is custom made. As long as it is feasible (and you have enough money), he will build whatever you want. So the first step is to send a pm to Glenn indicating what you want and how much you are willing to spend.


----------



## Silent One

The _only_ thing stopping me from ordering another project from Glenn right now is money!  A few years ago, I lost a good number of tubes in a freak accident inside storage unit. I remember having about 6-8 National Union UX-245 Globes, certainly looked nice...until broken. Found one Sunday night, maybe another one or two survived, will be looking. Now thinking maybe commissioning a pair of 45 monaural amps from Glenn...

Finally completed my listening room at new residence yesterday. Still need to connect cables ect tonight; tomorrow:



 

 

 

In bottom photo, the 2359glenn OTL isn't driving the Kef's in the rear. They're all in the corner waiting to be pressed in to service as needed to save space in front of main audio rack.


----------



## 2359glenn

Silent One said:


> The _only_ thing stopping me from ordering another project from Glenn right now is money!  A few years ago, I lost a good number of tubes in a freak accident inside storage unit. I remember having about 6-8 National Union UX-245 Globes, certainly looked nice...until broken. Found one Sunday night, maybe another one or two survived, will be looking. Now thinking maybe commissioning a pair of 45 monaural amps from Glenn...
> 
> Finally completed my listening room at new residence yesterday. Still need to connect cables ect tonight; tomorrow:
> 
> ...



Hi SO
Nice setup


----------



## mordy

Silent One said:


> The _only_ thing stopping me from ordering another project from Glenn right now is money!  A few years ago, I lost a good number of tubes in a freak accident inside storage unit. I remember having about 6-8 National Union UX-245 Globes, certainly looked nice...until broken. Found one Sunday night, maybe another one or two survived, will be looking. Now thinking maybe commissioning a pair of 45 monaural amps from Glenn...
> 
> Finally completed my listening room at new residence yesterday. Still need to connect cables ect tonight; tomorrow:
> 
> ...


Hi SO,
Very impressive - could you tell me what the different components are? Don't envy you in the work of connecting all those pieces.....


----------



## whirlwind

Happy July 4th!


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> Hi SO
> Nice setup


Thanks kindly. Realizing I wouldn’t be able to do any meaningful headphone listening earlier in the evening, I left “cabling” for the day after. It’s now after midnight out here in LA and still lots of gatherings, parties and explosions. Now that I think about it, Lebron James might have more to do with people’s excitement tonight than “The 4th!”


----------



## Silent One (Jul 5, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi SO,
> Very impressive - could you tell me what the different components are? Don't envy you in the work of connecting all those pieces.....


Thanks mordy. Starting at top of rack, left to right:

- Vintage Monster Receiver
1978 Sansui G-22000 (rare); 265wpc @ 8 or 16 ohms

- Mac mini music server; Amarra software

- Music Hall mmf-7 turntable

Leftside - bottom & middle shelf:
Pair of Shindo Laboratory Sinhonia F2a monaural amps (rare); 40wpc @ 16 ohms (modeled after Marantz Model 2 monarual amp 1956; further refined by Shindo-san)

- Rightside - middle shelf:
Sacd/Dvd Sony S9000es player

- Bottom shelf center; rightside:
APC Power conditioner; Wyred4Sound Dac w/low ESR caps

- across room:
Heritage 2359glenn OTL amp

- Pair Kef Coda 9 floorstanding speakers
- Modded HiFiMAN HE-6 cans - via speaker taps on all amps.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 5, 2018)

Silent One said:


> The _only_ thing stopping me from ordering another project from Glenn right now is money!  A few years ago, I lost a good number of tubes in a freak accident inside storage unit. I remember having about 6-8 National Union UX-245 Globes, certainly looked nice...until broken. Found one Sunday night, maybe another one or two survived, will be looking. Now thinking maybe commissioning a pair of 45 monaural amps from Glenn...
> 
> Finally completed my listening room at new residence yesterday. Still need to connect cables ect tonight; tomorrow:
> 
> ...



Wow that is the first or second amp I built
Ether that one is the first or the one Clayton has is.
Pretty sure that is the first.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Wow that is the first or second amp I built
> Ether that one is the first or the one Clayton has is.
> Pretty sure that is the first.



I knew this had to be an older OTL because of the small footprint size....small chassis.
Am I correct thinking that I see the monstrous 5U8C as the rectifier tube in Silent's amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I knew this had to be an older OTL because of the small footprint size....small chassis.
> Am I correct thinking that I see the monstrous 5U8C as the rectifier tube in Silent's amp.



Yes pretty sure this is the first and that is a 5U8C.
Kind of neat to see it.
He did send it back to add the 5998 switch pretty sure those are 5998s.
The real first one I sold on E-Bay with a 1633 driver that transformer has a 25 volt winding that is not being used.
I originally designed the amp to use the 13D1 or 1633 as a driver but after the first one every one wanted to use a 6SN7.


----------



## parbaked

I had Clayton's OTL for a while. I think it was the 2nd sold on HF...OG OTL!
It sounded really great with $30 worth of tubes. 







Silent One...good to see you back with your rig.
Trade the KEFs for some monitors and set up a near field rig. Your Shindos need to sing!


----------



## Silent One (Jul 5, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Yes pretty sure this is the first and that is a 5U8C.
> Kind of neat to see it.
> He did send it back to add the 5998 switch pretty sure those are 5998s.
> The real first one I sold on E-Bay with a 1633 driver that transformer has a 25 volt winding that is not being used.
> I originally designed the amp to use the 13D1 or 1633 as a driver but after the first one every one wanted to use a 6SN7.



Since selling my special pair of TS 6SN7s, I mainly feature the 13D1 with adapter.

@parbaked
Great to see you too...miss having exchanges with you and seeing your contributions around the site. We seem to have a few links in common if memory serves: Matt (pitch perfect audio; clayton; appreciation for Japanese Art & Culture; A-u-d-i-o !!!








UX-245 Globe - RCA Radiotron


----------



## wazzupi

You can add me to that list hehe


Silent One said:


> Since selling my special pair of TS 6SN7s, I mainly feature the 13D1 with adapter.
> 
> @parbaked
> Great to see you too...miss having exchanges with you and seeing your contributions around the site. We seem to have a few links in common if memory serves: Matt (pitch perfect audio; clayton; appreciation for Japanese Art & Culture; A-u-d-i-o !!!
> ...


----------



## parbaked

SO...bikes too...I moved to Oakland so I almost never have to drive anymore!!!

This is the only place I check in on HF...and that's just to see if Stavros or any other OG's check in. 
I do also love seeing how even more awesome Glenn's amps are evolving. Really some of the best stuff in hifi.

As I mature I realize that I really prefer speakers to cans and that tube rolling is not for me compared to spending that money on pizza and beer; so I just don't have that much to contribute here anymore...unless peeps really want to see pics of all the pizza I'm eating...


----------



## parbaked

I do still see Clayton, but our lawyers told us it's better not to post about any of our activities....


----------



## gibosi

Silent One said:


> .....appreciation for Japanese Art & Culture.....



私も。。。


----------



## Monsterzero

Silent One said:


> appreciation for Japanese Art & Culture



Does this guy count as Japanese culture? Im named after him after all...


----------



## Silent One (Jul 5, 2018)

parbaked said:


> SO...bikes too...I moved to Oakland so I almost never have to drive anymore!!!
> 
> This is the only place I check in on HF...and that's just to see if Stavros or any other OG's check in.
> I do also love seeing how even more awesome Glenn's amps are evolving. Really some of the best stuff in hifi.
> ...



O!!! that's right, how could I forget my cycling brother?! I wonder if my doctor is getting an undisclosed cut from all the Rx she has me on...having difficulty remembering things last couple of months. Lol

I use to live in E.Oakland. Worked in and around Grand & Madana and always got my pizza, cafe & other drinks "on" up and down Grand, Lake Shore. Ahhh and then there was Berkeley! I miss both sides of the Bay but deep fondness for the Eastbay. Now you have me thinking about the record shops around Telegraph & Durant, Blondies...I use to play chess across the street from Cal (UC Berkeley) @ Togo's. Shoot! Next time I come up, gonna have to hit you and Clayton up!

Yup, pizza is simply one of those eats I will never tire of...ever! Also, I'm really looking forward to climbing aboard my Cervelo this September, should be off disability by Sep/Oct. That "Canadian" makes for a thrilling ride!


----------



## Silent One

gibosi said:


> 私も。。。


I find all the regular members here in this thread inspiring...what a great group of enthusiasts!


----------



## gibosi

Actually, I am planning on spending a couple weeks in Japan, either later this year or early next. Tentatively, I am thinking a week in Tokyo and a week in Osaka, as I have friends in both cities. However, my Japanese friends are not into audio, so if anyone knows of places I should check out, especially places of interest to vacuum tube addicts, I am all ears.


----------



## Silent One

Modified HiFiMAN HE-6; WireWorld Silver Eclipse 7 headphone cable; 4-pin xlr
Flanked by twin Nomad 36" longboards - bustin boards, bklyn, ny


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> Actually, I am planning on spending a couple weeks in Japan, either later this year or early next. Tentatively, I am thinking a week in Tokyo and a week in Osaka, as I have friends in both cities. However, my Japanese friends are not into audio, so if anyone knows of places I should check out, especially places of interest to vacuum tube addicts, I am all ears.


When I went to Kyoto two years ago, I forgot all about headphones, I just enjoyed the place, the food and the culture. So I wouldn't be of any help. My only tip is to enjoy your trip.


----------



## wazzupi

i too wish to go for 2 weeks  i'd love some insight !


----------



## mordy

Silent One said:


> Thanks mordy. Starting at top of rack, left to right:
> 
> - Vintage Monster Receiver
> 1978 Sansui G-22000 (rare); 265wpc @ 8 or 16 ohms
> ...


Ho SO,
Thanks for the description - a very impressive collection of Hi Fi gear that must have taken you many years to put together....
Looking at your 70's monster receiver I wonder if power amps really have changed that much over the years in terms of performance. 
Speaking of amps, my sonic journey started out in the late 70's with a 100W Dunlap-Clarke Dreadnaught 250 power amp  (in storage), then an Acurus DIA100 100W integrated amp upgraded to MKII (still use it in secondary system), then an Outlaw RR2150 100W receiver from 2004 (blew a channel from bad speaker; repaired, in storage), then a Sony 1980's 110W integrated amp that became a little ratty. Now I am using a Tandberg 1980's 3006A 150W power amp. Seems I am stuck in the 80's lol...
However, I need an integrated amp with tone controls etc - 100W is enough. Does anybody have any good suggestions on inexpensive older gear that is good sounding and reliable?


----------



## Monsterzero

Im really fond of pre-1980s Sansui gear...That bass! I have several vintage receivers(named in my sig) They each sound different from one another. 
I'd like to get my hands on a McIntosh 4100,just because,though theyre far from  "inexpensive".

I dunno the technical reasons behind the fact,but even my GOTL doesnt do to the mids of my K240 sextetts what vintage receivers do. Theyre the only headphones I run from my vintage gear these days.


----------



## Monsterzero

For the members who were inquiring about my HD250s,theres a NOS pair for sale now

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd250-linear-1-600ohm.883427/

No affiliation.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I was wondering where has @UntilThen been ? Not a single post for weeks is he OK?  I love the quality of people on this thread  and awaiting my OTL to arrive.


----------



## Monsterzero

FunctionalDoc said:


> I was wondering where has @UntilThen been



I saw him post here recently. Apparently he is grabbing a Stratus now.


----------



## whirlwind

FunctionalDoc said:


> I was wondering where has @UntilThen been ? Not a single post for weeks is he OK?  I love the quality of people on this thread  and awaiting my OTL to arrive.



Hopefully he has just been working a bunch of hours or something, or maybe just kicking back and enjoying his music.
I really hope he is not having  any health issues.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I saw him post here recently. Apparently he is grabbing a Stratus now.



Can't ever have too many tubes


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> Can't ever have too many tubes



You clearly havent met my wife. She would beg to disagree under no uncertain terms. Why heres a screenshot from our dinner table just last night....


----------



## UntilThen

FunctionalDoc said:


> I was wondering where has @UntilThen been ? Not a single post for weeks is he OK?  I love the quality of people on this thread  and awaiting my OTL to arrive.



I was sitting cross legged on a hill in Australia, with hd800 on my head powered by GOTL, source by the TREE (Yggdrasil), listening to End of the World’ album by Tangerine Dream.... 

And I hit Nirvana. Smack right through my body.

It’s a great experience but frightening. So be forewarn when you get your amp. Remember to sit cross legged.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> istening to End of the World’ album by Tangerine Dream....



Lifelong TD fan here,never heard of this album...what are some of the titles of tracks on it(thinking maybe it has an alt title)


----------



## UntilThen

Sorry album is called Out of this World. 

Also bought another TD album ‘Island of Fay’. Love it.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jul 6, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> You clearly havent met my wife. She would beg to disagree under no uncertain terms. Why heres a screenshot from our dinner table just last night....



This is how I pictured it:


----------



## Monsterzero (Jul 6, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Sorry album is called Out of this World.
> 
> Also bought another TD album ‘Island of Fay’. Love it.



Check out the "The Virgin Years" box set. I used to have it on vinyl,back when I was 14...its *soo *good!

Sorry,not the Virgin Years(although its good as well)

Its this one

https://www.bonanza.com/listings/Bo...FXpDNQqRFkjYmHqSvvavaKyhjSIVNQVAaAliJEALw_wcB


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks for the recommendation. It’s time to get a new LP. I like brand new album. It’s as quiet as digital and on the RP8, it’s details galore.


----------



## UntilThen

Silent One said:


> Finally completed my listening room at new residence yesterday. Still need to connect cables ect tonight; tomorrow:



Always like to see others setup, whatever it maybe. I love a vinyl setup. It's hard to describe but it just sounds better to my ears. I've recently acquired an Auralic Aries Le and NAD M51 for the stereo system in the lounge. So I've Rega RP8 TT, Auralic network streamer and a Pioneer SACD player for source. All are excellent sounding but the turntable with a new or clean LP just sound so much more natural to me.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Actually, I am planning on spending a couple weeks in Japan, either later this year or early next. Tentatively, I am thinking a week in Tokyo and a week in Osaka, as I have friends in both cities. However, my Japanese friends are not into audio, so if anyone knows of places I should check out, especially places of interest to vacuum tube addicts, I am all ears.



Japan's a lovely place. Took my family there in 2010 for a 13 days trip covering Tokyo, Kyoto, cable car past Mt Fuji, Yokohama, Osaka, Hiroshima. Went to Tokyo's Akihabara Electric Town, where all the Japanese brand names are flashing in neon signs. It's probably home to the largest electronics store in the world.
Too much audio in the last few years so I am glad to take a break and will be going to Spore and Taiwan in August with my wife. Perhaps I can check out the audio scene in Taiwan.


----------



## UntilThen

Too much distractions in the last few weeks. Upgraded to a bigger 65” TV to watch the World Cup.

Also I started listening with the stereo system more using vinyl. Never got tired of listening to War On Drugs ‘A Deeper Understanding’ double LP on green coloured vinyl.


----------



## Silent One

UntilThen said:


> Always like to see others setup, whatever it maybe. I love a vinyl setup. It's hard to describe but it just sounds better to my ears. I've recently acquired an Auralic Aries Le and NAD M51 for the stereo system in the lounge. So I've Rega RP8 TT, Auralic network streamer and a Pioneer SACD player for source. All are excellent sounding but the turntable with a new or clean LP just sound so much more natural to me.


Very nicely presented. You're doing quite well inside the listening room. For me, one thing about vinyl that never gets old - browsing record shops. In _real time. _Feelin' the local vibe from shop's location and pickin' up on the vibes others nearby bring while browsing. Shopping online has its place but...

On "Japan," I scheduled my very first vacay there summer 2013, reservations for three weeks - attending the Tokyo Electronics Festival that October. Then running around Japan sight-seeing. Sadly, I never left LA! Dems & R'pubs had a bitter spat that summer and shut Congress down - could not get my passport. And balked at private broker fees. My work/play schedule was really tight, so if I wasn't able to get that sorted in a timely manner, needed to reschedule my vacay and get back to work!


----------



## Silent One

Here's a vinyl treat for you UntilThen!
My Music Hall tracking "Session III" - Yamaha R&D Studio, LA


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks SO. Glad to find someone just as passionate in sharing their audio gear and vinyl ! 

Pretty sure @JazzVinyl and @leftside will chime in too. They are vinyl lovers too.

Am at a Bavarian Beer Cafe for dinner now and the crowd here has started drinking in preparation for the England vs Sweden game. Go England !!!


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Thanks SO. Glad to find someone just as passionate in sharing their audio gear and vinyl !
> 
> Pretty sure @JazzVinyl and @leftside will chime in too. They are vinyl lovers too.
> 
> Am at a Bavarian Beer Cafe for dinner now and the crowd here has started drinking in preparation for the England vs Sweden game. Go England !!!


Belgium's gonna win


----------



## Althalus

UntilThen said:


> Am at a Bavarian Beer Cafe for dinner now and the crowd here has started drinking in preparation for the England vs Sweden game. Go England !!!



They did go. 
You happy, but our Scandinavian friends not so happy ....
But it's just a game.. .....wait....did you mention food and beer?......


----------



## UntilThen

England won. 

Now Russia and Croatia at 1 : 1 in extra time. Looks like another penalty shootout coming up.


----------



## UntilThen

Nope not going to happen. Croatia scored in the dying minutes of extra time....


----------



## UntilThen

What the fish.... Russia equalised !!!

Look at the faces of the spectators before the free kick.


----------



## UntilThen

I was right. It’s penalties now. Oh goodness who’s going to win. 

Watching soccer is more exhausting than shopping for head-fi.


----------



## UntilThen

Silent One said:


> Also, I'm really looking forward to climbing aboard my Cervelo this September, should be off disability by Sep/Oct. That "Canadian" makes for a thrilling ride!



Started back reading some of the posts and came across this which caught my eye. A Cervelo? Nice!  One of the bikes I look at when deciding to buy one but I end up with a Specialised Roubaix.

Back to an hour of headphone listening with my 'usual' setup of Yggdrasil > GOTL > HD800 - tubes are ECC35 + 6 x 6BX7. Listening to Tangerine Dream - 'Ricochet'. Lovely. Beautiful. Will have to buy the vinyl version.


----------



## whirlwind

Glad you are not having any health problems UT and congrats on your DNA amp.

I have been having a battle with ulcerative colitis for about a month now and it has kicked my butt!

For the rectifier people out there, I just rolled in the 80 Globe this morning.
The EL3N amp, just like Glenns OTL....sounds great with all rectifiers that I have tried.

I am not sure if the 80 globe would be considered a wimpy rectifier or not, maybe Glenn and Ken can answer this ?
I hope not...lol.

It is just amazing to me that these tubes this old can produce sound like this..i am listening to the Ori and listening to 

 

Good lord this is just a sublime sound, it makes your head bob and it puts a smile on your face......bass is killer.

I think at some point I will just get a GZ32   GZ34   and GZ37 and I can be done with rectifiers...I may grab a couple more 80 globes.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> For the rectifier people out there, I just rolled in the 80 Globe this morning.
> The EL3N amp, just like Glenns OTL....sounds great with all rectifiers that I have tried.
> 
> I am not sure if the 80 globe would be considered a wimpy rectifier or not, maybe Glenn and Ken can answer this ?
> I hope not...lol.



Unfortunately, the 80 is too wimpy to use in the GOTL, even with only four 6BX7. Otherwise, I would have one, or maybe even two! 

But it is perfectly fine in the EL3N.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I have been having a battle with ulcerative colitis for about a month now and it has kicked my butt!



Hope you feel better.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, the 80 is too wimpy to use in the GOTL, even with only four 6BX7. Otherwise, I would have one, or maybe even two!
> 
> But it is perfectly fine in the EL3N.



Thanks Ken. I know Glenn assured me that I could use pretty much any rectifier in the amp.
I guess I just wonder about the rectifiers that are not as robust as others, if they may have a greater chance of failure at start up.
I guess I need to just not worry about it and use what I like...which is really what I want to do.

The 80 globe also seems to run rather cool, adapter does not really even seem to get warm.
When I use my GEC U18/20 rectifier the adapter gets scorching hot, the sound is beautiful...but man does that adapter get hot.
I believe Glenn said no worries as the adapter would go bad before anything happening to the amp...still...it makes me a tad on edge, lol..
The amp itself runs very cool, it can be on all day log and the chassis never gets above barely warn to the touch.






Monsterzero said:


> Hope you feel better.



Thank you Monster, much appreciated.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Thanks Ken. I know Glenn assured me that I could use pretty much any rectifier in the amp.
> I guess I just wonder about the rectifiers that are not as robust as others, if they may have a greater chance of failure at start up.
> I guess I need to just not worry about it and use what I like...which is really what I want to do.
> 
> ...



Wimpy is a relative term. For example, the 80 can provide 125ma. Given that the EL3N draws around 100ma, the 80 has capacity to spare, and cannot be described as "wimpy' in this application. The GOTL with six 6BX7 or a pair of 6AS7 draws about 220ma. Obviously, the 80 is way too "wimpy" and would fail relatively quickly. On the other hand, the U18/20, rated for 250ma, has capacity to spare when used in either the EL3N or the GOTL.

The reason the U18/20 adapter gets so hot is there is a power resister inside which drops the 5 volts provided by the amp down to 4 volts. With 2 amps of heater current running through it, yes indeed, it gets hot. However, as long as the resister is sized correctly there shouldn't be anything to worry about. On the other hand, for those of us who can use a 3DG4, a simple B4 to 3DG4 adapter, which doesn't require a power resister, stays cool.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Glad you are not having any health problems UT and congrats on your DNA amp.



Thanks WW. I was told my Stratus will be ready in a year's time. So take comfort for those who think their wait for a Glenn's amp is a long time. I'm not in a hurry anyway because what I have now is sublime - both in HiFi and Head-Fi.

I'm returning to Bicycle-Fi now. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bicycle-fi.334563/page-263#post-14347392


----------



## mordy

Would you pay $111.25 for a GE 6SN7GT tube?








Unfortunately for me,  I wasn't the only one who recognized this as a Tung Sol BGRP....


----------



## UntilThen

The Tung Sol bgrp is the driver I use mainly now. In fact, I hardly roll my tubes now. Just the Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp with 6 x 6bxtgt. In my system and according to my ears, this is the best tone - for me.  When I refer to Tung Sol bgrp, I mean all the different variations, 6sn7gt, 12sn7gt, 6sl7gt, 12sl7gt, 6su7gty, 6f8g. The 6su7gty is the only one I didn't have the pleasure of sampling. So many times I wanted to get one but in the end, I told myself I don't have to listen to every tube.

That's a big endorsement for the TS black glass round plates, especially in the company of my other drivers namely:-

Mullard ECC35
Mullard ECC33
Mullard ECC31
Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
GEC B36
RCA 5691

Only the best are listed here. There are a lot more in the drawer.....


----------



## gibosi

Which six 6BX7 are you using? To my ears, it does make a difference...


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Thanks Ken. I know Glenn assured me that I could use pretty much any rectifier in the amp.
> I guess I just wonder about the rectifiers that are not as robust as others, if they may have a greater chance of failure at start up.
> I guess I need to just not worry about it and use what I like...which is really what I want to do.
> 
> ...



What you need is a B4 to 3DG4 adapter and then it will be using the 20watt internal resistor instead of the two 2 watt resistors in the adapter.
Gibosi knows were to get these.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I have been having a battle with ulcerative colitis for about a month now and it has kicked my butt!



Sorry to hear this, Joe.  My ex wife had it as does an old friend.   The good news is that great strides have been made in treatment in the last few years,  Hope you are seeing a good doc for this,

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> The Tung Sol bgrp is the driver I use mainly now. In fact, I hardly roll my tubes now. Just the Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp with 6 x 6bxtgt. In my system and according to my ears, this is the best tone - for me.  When I refer to Tung Sol bgrp, I mean all the different variations, 6sn7gt, 12sn7gt, 6sl7gt, 12sl7gt, 6su7gty, 6f8g. The 6su7gty is the only one I didn't have the pleasure of sampling. So many times I wanted to get one but in the end, I told myself I don't have to listen to every tube.
> 
> That's a big endorsement for the TS black glass round plates, especially in the company of my other drivers.



I still favor the Sylvania 6SN7W overall.  I do like my TS 12SN7GT BGRP and agree that it is a fine tube.  It is darker/deeper than the Sylvania, which I like but less distinct in that sound stage presentation/separation...

Still prefer 6x 6BL7's here, having only high Z cans...

Cheers...


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jul 10, 2018)

Lots Vinyl listened too, lately:

Jackson Browne, Supertramp, Joe Walsh, Steppenwolf, Yes, Deep Purple, Donovan, Wishbone Ash, Jefferson Starship/Airplane, David Crosby, Stephen Stills, Neil Young, Pet Shop Boys, Eurogliders, Eurythmics, Joe Zawinul, Ernie Watts, Santana, David Bromberg, Jeff Beck, George Harrison, Badfinger, Jethro Tull, Joe Cocker, Humble Pie, Uriah Heep, Steve Miller Band, Grand Funk Railroad, Bob Dylan, Phoebe Snow, Paul McCartney, Pete Townshend....etc

For a mind blowing "details are amazing" experience....may I suggest:

Band: Supertramp
Album: In The Quietest Moments
Song: From Now On...

Amazing song with details and musicianship that was at its absolute peak.

I have studied this song for years, and it still generates enormous energy/excitement and wonder...

How do you hear _that_ in your head, get others to to hear it, and help you bring it to an amazingly exuberant life?

Cheers!!!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I still favor the Sylvania 6SN7W overall.  I do like my TS 12SN7GT BGRP and agree that it is a fine tube.  It is darker/deeper than the Sylvania, which I like but less distinct in that sound stage presentation/separation...
> 
> Still prefer 6x 6BL7's here, having only high Z cans...
> 
> Cheers...


Looking for a TS 12SN7BGRP - a pair just went for $120. Have to look for a rebranded one for less money.
Bought a TS BGRP 6SL7GT for $29 (labeled Motorola) and a Sylvania 6SN7WGT for $18, but I don't think the Syl GT is as desirable as the 6SN7W. 
It's strange, but the 1940-50's Sylvania 6SN7W/6SN7A seem to be in good supply and are popping up all the time. The prices are all over the map - from $25 to $175 and higher.
Does a TS 6F8G  BGRP sound the same as the TS 6SN7 BGRP?


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Looking for a TS 12SN7BGRP - a pair just went for $120. Have to look for a rebranded one for less money.
> Bought a TS BGRP 6SL7GT for $29 (labeled Motorola) and a Sylvania 6SN7WGT for $18, but I don't think the Syl GT is as desirable as the 6SN7W.
> It's strange, but the 1940-50's Sylvania 6SN7W/6SN7A seem to be in good supply and are popping up all the time. The prices are all over the map - from $25 to $175 and higher.
> Does a TS 6F8G  BGRP sound the same as the TS 6SN7 BGRP?



They do to my ears mordy


----------



## gibosi

And to my ears, the black glass ladder-plate TS 6F8G also sounds the same.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> They do to my ears mordy


Next question: I only have TS 6


gibosi said:


> And to my ears, the black glass ladder-plate TS 6F8G also sounds the same.


Thanks, just checked, and I have the ladder plates.


----------



## wazzupi

Could someone help me find out if my tubes are good in terms of design and price match i mean i kinda went with the more expensive tube sets. Ill try to post pics when i get home or i might have them actually.


----------



## Silent One (Jul 12, 2018)

You know how it's often said "Adapt or die?"..."Die or adapt" or something like it." Well, 6SN7 prices were killing me! Fortunate for me - BIG thanks to Xcalibur's guidance - I already secured a pair TS-BGRP 6SN7W's. And they sounded sooo good.

Anyway, rather than contribute to runaway prices, with Glenn's support adapt I did! And happily went 12V.

Below is a fresh shot taken tonight of my sacd/dvd player - Sony 9000es, which will see a greater playback role along side my time-honored mac-mini music server to close out 2018. I'm hoping to mate the Sony with the 2359Glenn OTL driving the Senn HD650. This match should prove warm, alluring...down right inviting. Nooo...not like a "Chat-line!" Okay, maybe. Lol

But June saw Misfortune inside the listening room just days apart. Headphone cable for the HD650 shorted out on R/side. Using L/side cable for testing and both drivers are fine, need new cable. A few days later, I unplugged iPod adapter from rca input on OTL and a jack broke - half inside amp, and outside. Now amp awaiting soldering repair. This three piece ensemble should make for great listening when I can get them together.


----------



## whirlwind

Silent One said:


> You know how it's often said "Adapt or die?"..."Die or adapt" or something like it." Well, 6SN7 prices were killing me! Fortunate for me - BIG thanks to Xcalibur's guidance - I already secured a pair TS-BGRP 6SN7W's. And they sounded sooo good.
> 
> Anyway, rather than contribute to runaway prices, with Glenn's support adapt I did! And happily went 12V.
> 
> ...



That is going to sound wonderful.
When I first received my OTL amp from Glenn, it was soon after that I realized how good the Senn HD650 was.
I have owned it on three separate occasions.

Can't wait to hear your impressions once you get everything straightened around.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I decided to take the OTL to work.


----------



## 2359glenn

Another oldie glad to see you still have it.
What headphones are you using at work?


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> I decided to take the OTL to work.



I seem to remember that you were a fan of the early Sylvania Chrome Domes, so I am surprised to see a different driver?


----------



## leftside

There’s a bunch of GEC B36 brown base black plates on eBay right now. These are quite rare. I just grabbed one, so have a few now of metal base, brown base (just the one) and black base.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Another oldie glad to see you still have it.
> What headphones are you using at work?


I brought the Beyer DT880s with me.  They're open and my work environment is noisy so I'm not expecting the best results, but wearing the big heavy orthos isn't going to work either.

I may go looking for an affordable closed back headphone.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Jul 13, 2018)

gibosi said:


> I seem to remember that you were a fan of the early Sylvania Chrome Domes, so I am surprised to see a different driver?



I have actually waned a little on that Sylvania.  I found it to pair really well with the AKG K701 that I used almost exclusively at that time.  The tone balance isn't as good with my other headphones.  There is something about the tone that feels....... maybe ingenuine is the word, when using the orthos.  Right now there is a VT-231 Raytheon in the amp.  I've never really used this tube so I thought I would start there and roll to something else if it wasn't clicking.  The Raytheon sounded great while watching movies at home so I decided to leave it in for the time being.

I don't think the DT880s work all that well with the 5998 either.  The 6520s suit them much better, but it gets hot in here in the summer and the amp runs a lot cooler with the 5998s.


----------



## Monsterzero

Xcalibur255 said:


> I may go looking for an affordable closed back headphone.



The HD250s are excellent w/ the Glenn. Theres a NOS pair for sale in the classifieds,a bit steep price wise,but the seller invested quite a bit in them apparently.
Very detailed highs,but non sibilant.
Warm,sweet,slightly recessed mids
Deep,deep,deep textured bass w/ pretty good slam about them.
Wide and deep staging,with very good imaging.

I think they sound the way the LCD-2s shouldve sounded.

Very light and comfortable.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Thanks for the heads up.  I'm trying to avoid buying anything right now but I may end up doing it anyway.  The idea is to actually use what I already own.  I have 3 amps and 4 headphones at home, and honestly 95% of the time if I want to listen only one of each gets used:  the Glenn 45 and the Ethers.  I told myself I either need to use this stuff or sell it.  Selling things Glenn made for me is not an option IMO, but I got sentimental thinking about unloading my headphones and the Inspire IHA-1 so now I'm just messing around with it all to see what is worth doing.

I took a quick listen to the setup just now.  As I suspected the Raytheon is a little too hot sounding in the upper range with the DT880.  The 5998 are contributing to that too no doubt.  I think the KenRad 1633 will get things where I want them, but the last time I tried that tube it had gotten noisy.  I'll just have to put it in and see what happens.

It doesn't help that I have a noisy old air conditioner over my head either.  You can hear it clear as day through the open back DT880s.


----------



## gibosi (Jul 13, 2018)

Or if have a quiet RCA 1633, it might do the trick.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Or if have a quiet RCA 1633, it might do the trick.


Maybe cheaper to change the air conditioner than getting new stuff lol......


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Maybe cheaper to change the air conditioner than getting new stuff lol......



I can't exactly control that.  The work environment is what it is.  I'm just thankful it's there really.  It's a metal building.  Any A/C is a blessing no matter what form it takes.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> There’s a bunch of GEC B36 brown base black plates on eBay right now. These are quite rare. I just grabbed one, so have a few now of metal base, brown base (just the one) and black base.





leftside said:


> There’s a bunch of GEC B36 brown base black plates on eBay right now. These are quite rare. I just grabbed one, so have a few now of metal base, brown base (just the one) and black base.


Hi ls,
Can't find these on eBay -can you send a link?


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Hi ls,
> Can't find these on eBay -can you send a link?




https://www.ebay.com/itm/B36-12SN7-...Loc=2&_sacat=0&_nkw=B36+tubes&_from=R40&rt=nc

https://www.ebay.com/itm/B36-12SN7-...Loc=2&_sacat=0&_nkw=B36+tubes&_from=R40&rt=nc

https://www.ebay.com/itm/B36-12SN7-...pgn=3&_sacat=0&_nkw=B36+tubes&_from=R40&rt=nc

https://www.ebay.com/itm/B36-12SN7-...pgn=4&_sacat=0&_nkw=B36+tubes&_from=R40&rt=nc

https://www.ebay.com/itm/B36-12SN7-...pgn=4&_sacat=0&_nkw=B36+tubes&_from=R40&rt=nc


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Hi ls,
> Can't find these on eBay -can you send a link?


Try this. GEC are probably my favourite brand of tubes and I usually really like the black plates.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.ca/ulk/itm/372366751919

I’ve slowly but surely been picking up early GEC B309 and A2900 12at7 variations for my amps. Combined with mid-50’s Mullard 12ax7s and GEC KT88s give me the best sound with these amps.


----------



## Phantaminum

leftside said:


> Try this. GEC are probably my favourite brand of tubes and I usually really like the black plates.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.ca/ulk/itm/372366751919
> 
> I’ve slowly but surely been picking up early GEC B309 and A2900 12at7 variations for my amps. Combined with mid-50’s Mullard 12ax7s and GEC KT88s give me the best sound with these amps.



Thanks for the heads up. Got me a single and was thinking about returning some other tubes that I purchased to buy me another to complete a pair.


----------



## leftside

I think someone awhile back posted a pic of Lake Louise? Guess where I was today with my wife! Heading back from a long road trip around BC and Alberta.


----------



## gibosi

Very nice! I had some spectacular mud-puddles here recently, but they have all dried up...


----------



## Althalus

leftside said:


> I think someone awhile back posted a pic of Lake Louise? Guess where I was today with my wife! Heading back from a long road trip around BC and Alberta.


Very nice pictures, when I see them I wish I was sitting in the back of that canoe. You have a good eye for photography, well done.


----------



## 2359glenn

Just got nine 13D1s for $7 each great sounding tube a 25SN7.
Was looking at the B36 and found these.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Just got nine 13D1s for $7 each great sounding tube a 25SN7.
> Was looking at the B36 and found these.



Wow, that was a great score...congrats.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> I think someone awhile back posted a pic of Lake Louise? Guess where I was today with my wife! Heading back from a long road trip around BC and Alberta.


Hi ls,
The picture was from Lake Moraine which isn't far from Lake Louise - stunning scenery.
Did you know that grizzly bears know how to count? There were signs at Lake Moraine not to walk on trails in groups of less than six people since there were no recorded incidents of grizzly bears attacking groups of six or more!


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Hi ls,
> The picture was from Lake Moraine which isn't far from Lake Louise - stunning scenery.
> Did you know that grizzly bears know how to count? There were signs at Lake Moraine not to walk on trails in groups of less than four people since there were no recorded incidents of grizzly bears attacking groups of four or more!


----------



## leftside

Also went to Lake Moraine. The first pic looks like early snowfall, so probably October sometime.

I've only come across a grizzly once (and thankfully just a young one), but plenty of black bears. Almost hit two whilst mountain biking coming around corners - once on the Sunshine Coast and once high up on Burke Mountain near to Vancouver! Both were this year. You'll see brown bears and black bears all the time in Whistler. Watched baby cubs playing in the snow whilst the mother kept a careful eye on them a couple of months ago. Pretty cute.



 


Ok, back OT. I purchased a selection of tube boxes/sleeves. I'll be going through them today. Look like mainly US manufacturers like RCA, Sylvania, etc. Will help to organize the collection of 6BL7 and 6BX7's!


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 16, 2018)

I just replaced my ear pads on the HD800.  $70 to replace.
They are a bit tricky to get on, but after you figure it out the 2nd one goes on much easier.

I bought new head band padding also...it will be awhile before it arrives as it is coming from UK.
$120 for all new padding....they look and sound like new


 

Listening to John Mayall on the EL3N amp and the sound is just stunning, what a wonderful big sound........Life is good!


----------



## wazzupi

whirlwind said:


> I just replaced my ear pads on the HD800.  $70 to replace.
> They are a bit tricky to get on, but after you figure it out the 2nd one goes on much easier.
> 
> I bought new head band padding also...it will be awhile before it arrives as it is coming from UK.
> ...


I need to replace mine as well >_<


----------



## whirlwind

wazzupi said:


> I need to replace mine as well >_<



the price for both the pads and the headband padding seem a little high to me, especially for what they are...but it is what it is and the headphones sound great and look new.


----------



## leftside

A few tube sleeves. Will put some of them to good use next weekend.


----------



## gibosi

Just for grins I rolled in a quad of Fivre 6BX7 last night with the Telefunken C3g and Cossor 53KU. The Fivre are somewhat rare but easy to recognize. On the glass, "FIVRE" is etched below the octagon and the paper decal is common. In terms of internal construction, there are two rectangular getters below the bottom mica and the copper grid posts with heat radiators extend above the top mica.

Similar to the Fivre 6SN7, these have a rather forward midrange and to my ears, given that the Telefunkens are also rather forward, the whole presentation is bit too forward, even with the somewhat dark Cossor. So the Tung-Sol 6BX7 are back in for now.... yes better.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Just for grins I rolled in a quad of Fivre 6BX7 last night with the Telefunken C3g and Cossor 53KU. The Fivre are somewhat rare but easy to recognize. On the glass, "FIVRE" is etched below the octagon and the paper decal is common. In terms of internal construction, there are two rectangular getters below the bottom mica and the copper grid posts with heat radiators extend above the top mica.
> 
> Similar to the Fivre 6SN7, these have a rather forward midrange and to my ears, given that the Telefunkens are also rather forward, the whole presentation is bit too forward, even with the somewhat dark Cossor. So the Tung-Sol 6BX7 are back in for now.... yes better.




Have you tried the Fivre 6BX7 with any other C3g tubes Ken ?
Wonder what using Lorenz C3g would do.


----------



## gibosi

No,  I haven't tried the Fivre with the Lorenz. But it's a good idea so will try to find some time soon....


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> Just for grins I rolled in a quad of Fivre 6BX7 last night with the Telefunken C3g and Cossor 53KU. The Fivre are somewhat rare but easy to recognize. On the glass, "FIVRE" is etched below the octagon and the paper decal is common. In terms of internal construction, there are two rectangular getters below the bottom mica and the copper grid posts with heat radiators extend above the top mica.
> 
> Similar to the Fivre 6SN7, these have a rather forward midrange and to my ears, given that the Telefunkens are also rather forward, the whole presentation is bit too forward, even with the somewhat dark Cossor. So the Tung-Sol 6BX7 are back in for now.... yes better.



I can imagine these would work well with NU 6C8Gs as those have a flat FR to the point of being boring. Not sure if the 6SN7s sound the same as the 6C8Gs but looks like it would be a fun experiment.


----------



## gibosi

While I have the NU 6F8G as well as both the older gray glass and the newer black glass NU 6SN7, I don't have the NU 6C8G, so I don't know how it compares. But I would agree, any of the several NU varieties as well as the early Hytrons might be interesting to try.


----------



## gibosi

Popped the Lorenz C3g in with the Fivre 6BX7, and on a whim swapped out the Cossor for a GEC rectifier. And even though I haven't listened all that long, after a few tracks, it sounds really good to my ears. In fact, I am thinking that I will keep this combination in the amp for a while....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Looks great Ken!! A marvel of amplification!!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jul 18, 2018)

Here is Sophie....she is feeling good,  and helping me enjoy some Jethro Tull...bought the Steven Wilson remasters for:

Aqualung
Thick As A Brick
Minstrel In The Gallery
Songs From The Wood
Heavy Horses

They are all really great!!, Aqualung and Songs From The Wood, so good, makes ya wanna slap your milkman (whatever that means).

Tomorrow, the Vinyl for remastered Aqualung arrives...I need a new roof on the house anyway...so....

Cheers!,


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Here is Sophie....she is feeling good,  and helping me enjoy some Jethro Tull...bought the Steven Wilson remasters for:
> 
> Aqualung
> Thick As A Brick
> ...




 I agree with the Steven Wilson remasters.  I have Aqualung and Minstrel In The Gallery.  Great stuff.
 I may have to get the others eventually.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I agree with the Steven Wilson remasters.  I have Aqualung and Minstrel In The Gallery.  Great stuff.
> I may have to get the others eventually.



Hello Joe...

Songs From The Wood - the remaster really breathes new life into this set.  I liked the album back in the day.  This remaster adds space/air/depth to the mix.  Hear voices doing harmonies never noted before and even hand percussion and whistles that are barely hinted at (very buried) in the original mix.  The new version takes my breath away.

Heavy Horses - I didn't buy this one on Vinyl, back in the day and "took a chance" on the remaster. The more I hear it, the more I LOVE it.  More dynamics than we usually get in a Tull album (even remastered).  The Bass is endlessly deep as are the bass drum and toms.  I think this one really shows how important the underlying rhythm section was to Tull.  Ian and Martin were always out in front sucking up the limelight.  Remastered Heavy Horses shows off the "turn on a dime" importance of the rest of the band.  Must have been a much better recording to start with, because the remaster is positively stunning.

Cheers...


----------



## Monsterzero

Tube suggestions request:

My current(and fav) roll of GZ32 Rectifier ,a pair of C3Gs,and a half dozen 12ax7s is very detailed,clear and revealing.
Im looking for something to make my system warm(not overly so) for a nice change of pace. What tube(s) do you suggest I look into,hopefully nothing big$ and unobtanium.


----------



## JazzVinyl

6sn7 instead of c3g should warm things up considerably. 

I like to look for Baldwin 6sn7's most are sylvania, can be bought, for far less money than thier Syl branded cousins. 

Also like Raytheon 6sn7 for inexpensive, but sounds good.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> 6sn7 instead of c3g should warm things up considerably.
> 
> I like to look for Baldwin 6sn7's most are sylvania, can be bought, for far less money than thier Syl branded cousins.
> 
> Also like Raytheon 6sn7 for inexpensive, but sounds good.



Thanks!
My GOTL has the 6/12/25v switch. Any 12 or 25v suggestions?


----------



## whirlwind

RCA  6/12/25 SN7 should definitely warm up the sound.....I like them for my genre of music.....some may find them too warm.

They can be found dirt cheap

For 25 volt tubes...check 1633 tubes


----------



## Monsterzero

GOTL noob question,would any of those suggestions conflict with the rest of my rolls(popping a fuse from too much power,etc... )


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> GOTL noob question,would any of those suggestions conflict with the rest of my rolls(popping a fuse from too much power,etc... )




No sir, not at all....just set your 6/12/25 volt switch accordingly to what driver you use.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> GOTL noob question,would any of those suggestions conflict with the rest of my rolls(popping a fuse from too much power,etc... )



You should have a 1633/25SN7 that I gave you with the amp.
There is also the 13D1/25SN7.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> You should have a 1633/25SN7 that I gave you with the amp.


Indeed. Just plugged it in and letting it warm up. Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

I am not a big fan of the 9 pin miniature tubes except some 12AU7s are OK


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Tube suggestions request:
> 
> My current(and fav) roll of GZ32 Rectifier ,a pair of C3Gs,and a half dozen 12ax7s is very detailed,clear and revealing.
> Im looking for something to make my system warm(not overly so) for a nice change of pace. What tube(s) do you suggest I look into,hopefully nothing big$ and unobtanium.


Are you using 6 12ax7s as power tubes?

I strongly disagree with Glenn in regards to the 9 pin miniature tubes  Early Mullard, Valvo's, Amperex, Telefunken, RCA, Brimar and Raytheon 12ax7's are some of my favorites in my preamp and amp (I haven't tried Sylvania, Baldwin, etc). Usually square getter, and long black plates. Also really like the early welded plate Amperex 12at7 and GEC B309 and A2900 12at7 variants in my main amps.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Are you using 6 12ax7s as power tubes?



Umm...I think thats what they are...lol. Now im paranoid.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Umm...I think thats what they are...lol. Now im paranoid.


Those look like top getter GE (not sure if O or D getter) 6BL7 or 6BX7. 12AX7's are smaller with a dimple on the top.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Those look like top getter GE (not sure if O or D getter) 6BL7 or 6BX7. 12AX7's are smaller with a dimple on the top.



Youre correct GE 6BX7s...can never keep these damn numbers and letters straight.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 20, 2018)

leftside said:


> Are you using 6 12ax7s as power tubes?
> 
> I strongly disagree with Glenn in regards to the 9 pin miniature tubes  Early Mullard, Valvo's, Amperex, Telefunken, RCA, Brimar and Raytheon 12ax7's are some of my favorites in my preamp and amp (I haven't tried Sylvania, Baldwin, etc). Usually square getter, and long black plates. Also really like the early welded plate Amperex 12at7 and GEC B309 and A2900 12at7 variants in my main amps.



Yes in a preamp but not driving output tubes. This amp driver circuit is not right for a 12AX7 a 12AU7 or 12AT7 will be OK. No wonder it sounded thin and crappy.
This amp can take so many tubes why a 12AX7?????. A very high impedance tube that should have a plate resistor  of at least 100,000 ohms.
A 12AX7 really cannot drive the miller capacitance of the output tubes. In many amps the 12AX7 will drive a 12AU7 or 12AT7  to drive the output tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 20, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> Umm...I think thats what they are...lol. Now im paranoid.






Monsterzero said:


>



I see you put in the 1633 how does it sound??  If you want I will sell you a nice 13D1/25SN7 these tube sound great. 12AX7s are not right for this amp at all.
If you must use these 9 pin miniature tubes use a 12AU7.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Added Steven Wilson's remastered "Minstrel In The Gallery" to the digi Tull Collection.

One White Duck On our Wall, Yall...!!

Sylvania 6SN7W remains the favorite driver here. Details in, around, above and below, along the edges and sides of notes...can't beat it!

Cheers to all the Lucky Glenn owners!


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Added Steven Wilson's remastered "Minstrel In The Gallery" to the digi Tull Collection.
> 
> One White Duck On our Wall, Yall...!!
> 
> ...




Very nice JV.

I found this one, but have not listened yet

  


I think this is going to be loads of fun  11 album set
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Guitars


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Yes in a preamp but not driving output tubes. This amp driver circuit is not right for a 12AX7 a 12AU7 or 12AT7 will be OK. No wonder it sounded thin and crappy.
> This amp can take so many tubes why a 12AX7?????. A very high impedance tube that should have a plate resistor  of at least 100,000 ohms.
> A 12AX7 really cannot drive the miller capacitance of the output tubes. In many amps the 12AX7 will drive a 12AU7 or 12AT7  to drive the output tubes.


Totally agree 

In my mono amps the 12AX7 is a phase splitter, then 2 12AT7s to drive the two KT88 output tubes.

I think we confirmed that @Monsterzero wasn't using 12AX7's anyway and was indeed using 6BX7's.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Very nice JV.
> 
> I found this one, but have not listened yet



Hello Joe...yes I have Benefit on Vinyl and CD and love it (except for the song "Son").

I do find most folks "missed" Benefit, but it is a fine album.  Tull stretched studio technique on this album, they used some backwards guitar and flute, unheard of at the time.  And some other interesting studio techniques that many adopted, after it came out.  Loved the band lineup in these days, too.

"Blue Guitars" looks great, too!!

Cheers!


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> I see you put in the 1633 how does it sound??



Very nice with my HD250s,but too warm for my Atticus. I have read many times that some tube amp owners have specific rolls for specific headphones. I dont want to go that far down the rabbit hole,but I can understand why.



leftside said:


> I think we confirmed that @Monsterzero wasn't using 12AX7's anyway and was indeed using 6BX7's.



Yes. Sorry to trigger the alarm. My memory is shot due to medical reasons. This isnt the first time it has betrayed me,wont be the last.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Totally agree
> 
> In my mono amps the 12AX7 is a phase splitter, then 2 12AT7s to drive the two KT88 output tubes.
> 
> I think we confirmed that @Monsterzero wasn't using 12AX7's anyway and was indeed using 6BX7's.



No he must have been using the 12AX7 he switched it to a 1633 the six output tubes are 6BX7.
Don't know why he thought he could use a wimpy 12AX7 in the first place.  I gave him a 1633/25SN7 with the amp why 12AX7
This is why I cut back on supplying tubes with the amp.  Nobody uses them because somebody said this tube or that tube is better usually NOT.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> No he must have been using the 12AX7 he switched it to a 1633 the six output tubes are 6BX7.
> Don't know why he thought he could use a wimpy 12AX7 in the first place.  I gave him a 1633/25SN7 with the amp why 12AX7
> This is why I cut back on supplying tubes with the amp.  Nobody uses them because somebody said this tube or that tube is better usually NOT.



The only driver tubes I own are the 25v RCA you sent with the amp,a pair of Siemens C3g and a Tung Sol 6SU7GTY. Thats all I own at this point. 
The TS and c3g are very,very similar sounding.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> The only driver tubes I own are the 25v RCA you sent with the amp,a pair of Siemens C3g and a Tung Sol 6SU7GTY. Thats all I own at this point.
> The TS and c3g are very,very similar sounding.



If you haven't already, you might want to check out the 6SN7 reference thread

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/

to help you decide which tubes to try next. Off hand, the KenRad and the black-glass Brimar might be worth trying. IMO, these are certainly not as warm as the RCA, but still quite euphonic.


----------



## 2359glenn

Wow
Just got home from work and a pair of Auteur phones in Cocabolo wood were at the door that Zach sent me.
These are great looking phones.
Have to go out with my lady will give sound impressions later when I get home.
They will be hooked to a EL3N amp.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Wow
> Just got home from work and a pair of Auteur phones in Cocabolo wood were at the door that Zach sent me.
> These are great looking phones.
> Have to go out with my lady will give sound impressions later when I get home.
> They will be hooked to a EL3N amp.


Those are probably the best looking headphones I've seen. I had the blackwood, and considered them to be one of the best headphones I've listened to when connected to the 300B. I've spoken to other people and they preferred the Auteur to the LCD-3. My lady and my preference was the LCD-3, but I think it's purely a matter of taste rather than saying one is "better" than the other.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> They will be hooked to a EL3N amp



Out of curiosity,why an EL3N as opposed to an OTL?
Im saving up for an Ash Auteur that I plan on pairing with my GOTL..


----------



## 2359glenn

Actually this amp is Zach's amp want to try his phones on it.
Will also try with the OTL over the weekend.
My OTL is different it has #27 tubes as drivers and 6H13C outputs.
The only other nut that uses 27s is @gibosi


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Wow
> Just got home from work and a pair of Auteur phones in Cocabolo wood were at the door that Zach sent me.
> These are great looking phones.
> Have to go out with my lady will give sound impressions later when I get home.
> They will be hooked to a EL3N amp.



Oh man, I can't wait to hear your impressions....and please post some pics of those beauties.
EL3N & Auteur....hang on Glenn it's gonna be a fun ride


----------



## Althalus

2359glenn said:


> This is why I cut back on supplying tubes with the amp. Nobody uses them because somebody said this tube or that tube is better usually NOT.


Don't Glenn, I really think it's good you give me (and others) some tubes to start with (for me somewhere in autumn ) not everyone owns large tubecollections.

And when I buy let's say a 1633, and then complain that the amp doesn't sound good I can switch to your 1633 and then I know it's actually the new tube that doesn't sound well. So I think it's good you give some tubes with the otl to start with.

I am now reading this forum again ,and the 6bl7 forum. Searching for tubes I want and searching the web to find them.
On my list so far, 6bx7, 6bl7, 6336, 6h13c, maybe C3g and even 1633 and 3dg4 (as backup for the future).


----------



## gibosi

Althalus said:


> ....and 3dg4 (as backup for the future).



I am pretty sure that GE, Sylvania and Tung-Sol all manufactured this tube. I assume Glenn sent you one, so I encourage you to figure out which company manufactured it, and then pick up tubes from the other companies.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> ...The only other nut that uses 27s is @gibosi



ahaha...


----------



## Althalus (Jul 21, 2018)

gibosi said:


> I am pretty sure that GE, Sylvania and Tung-Sol all manufactured this tube. I assume Glenn sent you one, so I encourage you to figure out which company manufactured it, and then pick up tubes from the other companies.



Thanks Gibosi ,Glenn said indeed he will include one . And I will do as you say, pick tubes, each from different brands, or at least different brandnames on them. This because I first need to learn the differences because of all rebranding.

Mmmm, I just realised who does rectifier rolling.


----------



## 2359glenn

Althalus said:


> Thanks Gibosi ,Glenn said indeed he will include one . And I will do as you say, pick tubes, each from different brands, or at least different brandnames on them. This because I first need to learn the differences because of all rebranding.
> 
> Mmmm, I just realised who does rectifier rolling.



Maybe a 13D1/25SN7 instead of the 1633. A great sounding tube. Haltron made by Brimar.


----------



## Althalus

2359glenn said:


> Maybe a 13D1/25SN7 instead of the 1633. A great sounding tube. Haltron made by Brimar.



I will search for one.


----------



## whirlwind

Althalus said:


> I will search for one.




I am almost positive that this is the tube Glenn is talking about, and it is a very nice sounding tube and much harder to find then say an RCA 1633 tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I am almost positive that this is the tube Glenn is talking about, and it is a very nice sounding tube and much harder to find then say an RCA 1633 tube.



I didn't know you had one of the 13D1s.
Good luck finding one.


----------



## gibosi

Yes indeed, the 13D1 / CV423 is a great sounding tube.


----------



## Silent One

Solid state amplification on the left, Tube/Valve amplification on the right.
Additionally, the 'Heritage 2359glenn OTL' quietly awaiting a soldering iron; tlc.


----------



## whirlwind

Looks great, such a nice and clean looking set-up.

Why no feet on your Glenn amp ?


----------



## Silent One (Jul 22, 2018)

Thanks kindly whirlwind. I'm only a few weeks in with the new listening room and quickly discovered flaws with gears being out of reach in-session; bad resonance. With tonight's new config, finally dialed-in!

The OTL is awaiting repair - I got as far as removing the feet. I need to re-solder rca input jacks. Don't have funds yet to buy iron; solder. Want to buy a decent one along with quality solder...perhaps Sep/Oct.

My next big project this autumn is to retrofit my HE-6 for banana plugs and use my delicious sounding Auditorium A23 speaker cables as headphone cable.


----------



## whirlwind

Silent One said:


> Thanks kindly whirlwind. I'm only a few weeks in with the new listening room and quickly discovered flaws with gears being out of reach in-session; bad resonance. With tonight's new config, finally dialed-in!
> 
> The OTL is awaiting repair - I got as far as removing the feet. I need to re-solder rca input jacks. Don't have funds yet to buy iron; solder. Want to buy a decent one along with quality solder...perhaps Sep/Oct.
> 
> My next big project this autumn is to retrofit my HE-6 for banana plugs and use my delicious sounding Auditorium A23 speaker cables as headphone cable.




Thanks for the explanation.

How long is that table with your tube amps on it...it looks very sturdy.  Is it aluminum ?

My son will be moving shortly and I will be taking over his room for my listening area.
I am pretty excited to get started on it...it will feel so good to get all my gear together and to get a nice comfy recliner so I can relax in the evening and enjoy a couple of albums.
It is a small room, but it will do the trick and give me my own space.

Everytime I see that old receiver of yours it brings a smile to my face....what a beast.


----------



## Althalus

Silent One said:


>





whirlwind said:


> How long is that table with your tube amps on it...it looks very sturdy. Is it aluminum ?



I think it's a small platform people use when they do work indoors, like painting, or put plaster on the wall .
I like the (re)use of it as amp-table. Good thought of you Silent One .


----------



## Silent One

That's my aluminum foldable & _feather-light_ workbench (Germany). Have used it magnificently around the home/garage for many years...continues to see multi-purpose duties. Recently, my gears crushed my second audio rack and a coffee table (for overflow gears) within a couple of months of each other (sigh). A closer look reveals current wooden rack caving in the center on all three shelves..._uh-oh! 
_
Beyond its use for standing, sitting, to clean ect., I absolutely love it for projects and temporary shelve space - reading books, magazines, artwork, where I can meticulously leave things as they are for a couple hours/days/weeks, fold up and put away when done.

Measures 40"x12" on top; 53" kicked-out; 19" in height. 

Congrats! on earning your forthcoming listening space whirlwind. My _vintage lovely_ (1978 Sansui G-22000) brings a smile to my face whether on or off.


----------



## mordy

Silent One said:


> That's my aluminum foldable & _feather-light_ workbench (Germany). Have used it magnificently around the home/garage for many years...continues to see multi-purpose duties. Recently, my gears crushed my second audio rack and a coffee table (for overflow gears) within a couple of months of each other (sigh). A closer look reveals current wooden rack caving in the center on all three shelves..._uh-oh!
> _
> Beyond its use for standing, sitting, to clean ect., I absolutely love it for projects and temporary shelve space - reading books, magazines, artwork, where I can meticulously leave things as they are for a couple hours/days/weeks, fold up and put away when done.
> 
> ...


Always room to upgrade LOL:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SANSUI-G-3...ui+G-22000&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313
PS: Make sure to read the end of the description.....


----------



## Silent One

*Silent notes made audible...*_*and visible!* _(audio musings from Silent One's listening room)

I've one hour to decide how to close-out my weekend. Either a three hour listening session or Netflix. Currently inside the LR and reflecting over my journal. Thought I'd share my run-time table for active gears in current use - notes from impressions remain unavailable at this writing. Just because none of you invited the 'silent one' over for breakfast -_ lovely cinnamon brown pecan waffles topped w/French butter or Ghee and pure Canadian Maple Syrup flowing down the sides, perhaps? Yes, please!_ - doesn't mean you can't share in my joy looking over my runtimes while enjoying your own breakfast. 

A bit of clarity - not shown are gears that were sold or gifted last few years with the Denon's being the exception for contrast at-a-glance when looking at the HE-6; HD650. And not tracking the music server any longer since I use it in many different ways outside the sessions. Further, these hours do not represent totals on the gears themselves. Rather, hours of use inside _dedicated_ listening sessions with each piece.

 22 juillet 2018

HE-6 (modded): 961 hrs
HD650: 588 hrs
D7000 @ 1,809 hrs (retired)
D5000 @ 1,926 hrs (retired)
Sansui G-22000: 562 hrs
Shindo Lab F2a Sinhonia: 544 hrs
Shindo Lab Aurieges MM @ 511 hrs

Wyred4Sound DAC-1 w/Low ESR caps: 2,340 hrs
Music Hall MMF-7: 82 hrs
2359glenn OTL _Silver Hawk_: 734 hrs
Sony SACD/DVD Player S9000ES: 73 hrs


----------



## mordy

So the day has come - my new GOTL arrived a few days ago, but first now I have been able to spend time with it.



This amp is totally different to what I am used to (Little Dot MKIII, Feliks Audio Elise and Euforia). It likes different tubes and tube combinations and headphones compared to the other amps, and it is so much more sensitive, like a tube magnifying glass. 
If a tube isn't just perfect it will let you know. Loudly.
Started out with 6 x 6BX7. How do you figure out a bad tube among 7? In addition, when turning on the amp, there was a whole plethora of sounds that I did not hear before: pops, ticks, tinkling, howling and something that sounded like crumpling cellophane paper. And microphonics - just touching the volume knob sent the speakers into a tizzy....( Used a Tung Sol 6F8G as driver)
Oh my gosh, what did I get myself into? How can I find the offending tubes? 
At first I just shook my head, then shut the thing off and went to sleep for the night. Yeah - that's the punishment for buying bargain lots of mixed tubes 6BX7 - GE, Philco (Sylvania) and RCA.
OK - next day: Time to try again. Looked over the tubes, checked for corrosion on the pins. And discovered that all of the 6BX7 tubes, no matter what brand, were made by GE. The sandblasted dots are the telltale signs.
Turned on the amp, and based on JV's advice, I just let it sit 20 minutes to warm up without headphones or speakers plugged in - the amp has to keep the pops and ticks to itself....
Turned it on with my $12 headphones plugged in. Just in case. Much more quiet, but not good. Used the balance control to confirm that the noise was in one channel. At least I just need to check out three instead of six tubes.
Tried tapping on the tubes and found one offender. Luckily, I have eight 6BX7, and put in a different one. Finally quiet. Until I touched the volume knob. Microphonics galore - must be the driver tube. Tapped on the driver tube - ouch! Tapped on the chassis, tapped on the volume knob - NYET. How can such a gorgeous looking tube misbehave?



Luckily I have another rebranded one (both are ladder plate, not RP). It did rattle, but I put it in, and no microphonics.
Finally, the GOTL showed what it can do - the best sound I have heard to date. Full bodied, great bass slam and very natural sounding - it just sounds right.
I am just getting used to the amp now. Decided on a very simple set up - a Sylvania 6SN7WGT and a pair of Cetron 6336B. Them big tubes get superhot - measured over 350F! Amazing that the chassis does not have any ventilation holes and only gets fairly warm but not hot with these tubes. As ugly as they are, I am using the socket savers to cool down the chassis (and I turned on my fan for the 6336s - the chassis is barely warm with the fan pulling away hot air).
This combination is totally silent at even loud normal listening levels and very little hum even at full tilt.
And here is today's question: How can I save the TS microphonic tube from the garbage heap? Any tricks to get rid of the microphonics? (The less expensive the better.) I read about high temperature silicon tube rings, but I'll rather buy them from a car parts shop than a Hi Fi web site - any suggestions? Or something else - heard about heat resistant silicone tape as well.
Have fun!


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Jul 23, 2018)

Unfortunately you have found the downside to having a setup that uses a large number of tubes.  Getting everything quiet is a patient process of trial and error.  I  might suggest gently (very gently ) tapping each one of your tubes with a wooden pencil with your headphones on (and the amp powered up) to see what kind of microphonics/noise each is emitting.  The major offenders will become obvious pretty quickly.

This is why I basically stopped tube rolling.  It stopped being fun and started becoming stress.  Once you find a combination you like that works just set the cruise control and leave it in the amp.  It will be years before you actually need to replace them because they are worn out (unless you use your amp all day every day).

I'm not very popular around here for stating that having a gazillion tube rolling options is a double-edged sword, but so far I've seen several people buy and then sell their amp because they were intimidated by the amount of choices or were stressed out about finding the "perfect" combo.  I can't be completely talking out my ass if it's causing people to walk away.......

I think the original configuration of this amp is still a great sweet spot and highlights the strengths of the KISS ideology.  3DG4 for the rectifier, no need to mess around with anything else there.  You can basically start and end with the Brimar 13D1 for a driver for 90% of headphones and music genres.  Track down a quiet pair of 6520s for outputs and voila you have a great sounding amp that works well with a variety of headphones.  If the 6520 is proving hard to find then any 6AS7 type that isn't noisy is not going to do you wrong at the end of the day.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> So the day has come - my new GOTL arrived a few days ago, but first now I have been able to spend time with it.
> 
> This amp is totally different to what I am used to (Little Dot MKIII, Feliks Audio Elise and Euforia). It likes different tubes and tube combinations and headphones compared to the other amps, and it is so much more sensitive, like a tube magnifying glass.
> If a tube isn't just perfect it will let you know. Loudly.
> ...



Allot of 6F8G tubes tend to be micro phonic nothing you can really do about it other then trash it.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> Unfortunately you have found the downside to having a setup that uses a large number of tubes.  Getting everything quiet is a patient process of trial and error.  I  might suggest gently (very gently ) tapping each one of your tubes with a wooden pencil with your headphones on (and the amp powered up) to see what kind of microphonics/noise each is emitting.  The major offenders will become obvious pretty quickly.
> 
> This is why I basically stopped tube rolling.  It stopped being fun and started becoming stress.  Once you find a combination you like that works just set the cruise control and leave it in the amp.  It will be years before you actually need to replace them because they are worn out (unless you use your amp all day every day).
> 
> ...


Hi X255,
Thanks for your comments - I can certainly see your points. However, there is so much gain in my system that even with very low volume settings on my preamp and GOTL I get very good volume, and at these low volume settings hum isn't a problem.
In addition, I generally don't find tube rolling stressful, and rather enjoy trying different things. Of course, there are times when you get enough, but on the whole I look at it as an interesting and rewarding experience, especially finding inexpensive, good sounding tubes (and finding expensive tubes at bargain prices, but that's another story).
And as you say, when you find what you really like, you just leave the same tubes in, sit back, and enjoy listening.
Re keeping it simple, I choose not to have an option of rectifier rolling and just going with HEXFRED ss rectification.
I find it interesting that the same tube that  is quiet in a different amp becomes microphonic in the GOTL but I attribute it to the increased sensitivity and performance of the GOTL.
I don't have the 6520, but I have Chatham 6AS7G and TS 5998 in addition to a number of others (Svetlana, GEC, RCA etc). And the Brimar 13D1 is on my list. Funny, can't find much to choose from in 25V dual triodes.


----------



## Althalus

mordy said:


> So the day has come - my new GOTL arrived a few days ago, but first now I have been able to spend time with it.



Congrats Mordy, enjoy your gotl. 

Thank you for your advice to keep it simple in the beginning. 

I choose for the option 3dg4 and plugin hexfred. One additional cause of problems more, although I don't think that the rectifier tube will give any trouble. 

Now I'm getting more restless, one amp more finished but still two months before Glenn starts building mine. I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> And here is today's question: How can I save the TS microphonic tube from the garbage heap? Any tricks to get rid of the microphonics? (The less expensive the better.) I read about high temperature silicon tube rings, but I'll rather buy them from a car parts shop than a Hi Fi web site - any suggestions? Or something else - heard about heat resistant silicone tape as well.
> Have fun!



Very nice post, Mordy  

I am with Glenn on this one.   The GOTL will bring forth so much goodness with such a variety of SN7's (6/12/25v) why bother trying to get one gorgeous
Tung Sol 6F8G to behave itself?

I like your 6SN7WGT, and bet it sounds very very nice, indeed.

Would be interested in your thoughts regarding the 6336's vs the quiet set of 6BX7's.  I never went for the 6336's...too much heat for me 

Cheers, Mordy!  Hope _you_ have fun trying all your many drivers in your beautiful GOTL.


----------



## whirlwind

Congrats Mordy!


----------



## leftside

Congrats Mordy. Another one off the list, which means all of us on the list now move up a place! 

Regarding the 6F8G. I've never had so many microphonic problems as I have with this particular tube. 

Regarding the 6BX7 or 6BL7. These are tough tubes, and as such will often test high even when abused. Yes, sometimes one of them can be noisy - throw them out. I've had better success when I've combined 4 (or 6) with the same matching construction - i'e top square getter vs top circle getter, side square getter vs side circle getter, flat plates vs "t" plates, 3 mica vs 2 mica, etc. Also even some of the plates have slight differences - 3 holes vs 2 holes. 

I have 29 tubes combined in my system that uses the Glenn 300B, and it's perfectly silent when using the DAC. Sure, it might need a few minutes to settle down (tubes with slight popping), but that's not a problem.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Congrats Mordy. Another one off the list, which means all of us on the list now move up a place!
> 
> Regarding the 6F8G. I've never had so many microphonic problems as I have with this particular tube.
> 
> ...



I am building another 300B amp yours was the last one I built.  This one will use HEXFRED rectifiers and a timer for soft start of B+. I would prefer to use the 42EC4 Damper diodes
but Tony had one fail and the circuit breaker in his house blew before the 2 amp fuse in the amp did. I never had a problem with these tubes before just a bad tube and maybe
a weak breaker. Now this tube has a bad rep. I did have a 6EC4 fail really the same tube but it was in a SV572-3 amp running at 1200 volts that would be 2400 or more PIV
across the tube. Only the fuse in the amp blew.
Will see how this one sounds all else will be the same with C3g drivers. Making the most neutral sounding amp.  Maybe better sounding who knows.

I am waiting for the new WE300Bs to be on sale I need a pair as the filament in one of my KR globe 300Bs burned out now have one KR and one Sovteck
TAKs are way to expensive.


----------



## Phantaminum

Purchased some tubes from a UK seller who listed them as B36. I can imagine that these are relabeled Phillips 12sn7gts but sold as Mullard/Osram. Along the same type as the Pope 6sn7s but one is a gray plate and the other is a black plate. They are obviously not real B36 as those have totally different insides. What do you guys think? @gibosi


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> I am building another 300B amp yours was the last one I built.  This one will use HEXFRED rectifiers and a timer for soft start of B+. I would prefer to use the 42EC4 Damper diodes
> but Tony had one fail and the circuit breaker in his house blew before the 2 amp fuse in the amp did. I never had a problem with these tubes before just a bad tube and maybe
> a weak breaker. Now this tube has a bad rep. I did have a 6EC4 fail really the same tube but it was in a SV572-3 amp running at 1200 volts that would be 2400 or more PIV
> across the tube. Only the fuse in the amp blew.
> ...


"Neutral" is the perfect expression for the 300B amp. I have a bunch of tubes waiting for when you get around to my GOTL.

Let's see how expensive the new WE300Bs are...


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> Purchased some tubes from a UK seller who listed them as B36. I can imagine that these are relabeled Phillips 12sn7gts but sold as Mullard/Osram. Along the same type as the Pope 6sn7s but one is a gray plate and the other is a black plate. They are obviously not real B36 as those have totally different insides. What do you guys think? @gibosi



They don't look like any GEC B36 I have seen before. And while I seen Fivre 12SN7 labeled as GEC B36, they don't look like Fivre either. I am inclined to think that these were manufactured by Philips, either in Eindhoven or Bruxelles. If so, there should be a production code printed on the bottom around the pins, similar to the picture below. However, instead of "r9", which is for a 6SN7GT, it should read "0K" for a 12SN7GT. In the second line, "4" indicates Eindhoven where as "L" would indicate M.B.L.E., Bruxelles (Mazda). So do you see such a code?


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> They don't look like any GEC B36 I have seen before. And while I seen Fivre 12SN7 labeled as GEC B36, they don't look like Fivre either. I am inclined to think that these were manufactured by Philips, either in Eindhoven or Bruxelles. If so, there should be a production code printed on the bottom around the pins, similar to the picture below. However, instead of "r9", which is for a 6SN7GT, it should read "0K" for a 12SN7GT. In the second line, "4" indicates Eindhoven where as "L" would indicate M.B.L.E., Bruxelles (Mazda). So do you see such a code?



The Mullard has a code at the bottom: OK3 L81
The Osram doesn't have any code...

Bottom Getters are also at different angles. The Mullard is a square getter that's horizontal while the Osram is vertical. Mullard has teeth on the bottom mica while the Osram doesn't. Hmm.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> The Mullard has a code at the bottom: OK3 L81
> The Osram doesn't have any code...
> 
> Bottom Getters are also at different angles. The Mullard is a square getter that's horizontal while the Osram is vertical. Mullard has teeth on the bottom mica while the Osram doesn't. Hmm.



With later tubes, Philips moved the production code from the bottom of the base to the side of glass bottle, near the base. If you can't find any codes, either they have been rubbed off or it wasn't manufactured by Philips....


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> The Mullard has a code at the bottom: OK3 L81
> The Osram doesn't have any code...
> 
> Bottom Getters are also at different angles. The Mullard is a square getter that's horizontal while the Osram is vertical. Mullard has teeth on the bottom mica while the Osram doesn't. Hmm.



The real ones should have rounded or oval plates. The 13D1s I just got are lie that .


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> With later tubes, Philips moved the production code from the bottom of the base to the side of glass bottle, near the base. If you can't find any codes, either they have been rubbed off or it wasn't manufactured by Philips....





2359glenn said:


> The real ones should have rounded or oval plates. The 13D1s I just got are lie that .



Think I'll be returning these for a refund. I wouldn't have minded if I could verify that both were Philips made tubes but the Osram looks to be a fake which doesn't instill much confidence in me. Thanks for getting back to me guys and I'll buy a few 13D1s if I can find some.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> ...the Osram looks to be a fake...



"Fake" implies the intention to deceive. A B36 simply isn't worth enough money to be worth the time and energy to make a fake. Rather, obtaining comparable products from competitors and relabeling was standard operating procedure back in the day. If a company didn't have enough stock to satisfy a customer's order, they would simply get on the phone and purchase comparable products from a competitor. Keeping customers happy was of utmost importance.

And so we commonly see rebranded and relabeled tubes from all the manufacturers. I routinely see product from Mullard and Fivre relabeled as GEC / Osram / Marconi. So no, it is not a fake. Even though it was not manufactured by Osram, the tube is legitimate. A customer needed a 12SN7GT and got one.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> So the day has come - my new GOTL arrived a few days ago, but first now I have been able to spend time with it.
> 
> This amp is totally different to what I am used to (Little Dot MKIII, Feliks Audio Elise and Euforia). It likes different tubes and tube combinations and headphones compared to the other amps, and it is so much more sensitive, like a tube magnifying glass.
> If a tube isn't just perfect it will let you know. Loudly.
> ...



Congrats, mordy! Glad to hear that it was worth the wait for you.  And it's a beauty.
As you know, it will only get better as all the components run and settle in the coming months.

Yep, had the same problem with noisy GE 6BX7s, don't bother with them any more.
Also, the batch I have, IMO, don't sound as good as the other brands, TS, RCA, SYL, which sound really good.

Last couple of weeks have gone back to 596/C3g/CTN6336B, still one of the best trios for me. And Dead Quiet.
But so many great possibilities with GOTL.
I don't worry about the heat on any of the tubes, the heat we're discussing is all above deck. 
As I sit, the 6336Bs are about 325F top of glass but only about 135F at the metal base. Deck surface is not even warm.
Even the 596 can go to 260F @ top of bulb.

Also excited that Glenn is one amp closer to my GEL3N.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> "Fake" implies the intention to deceive. A B36 simply isn't worth enough money to be worth the time and energy to make a fake. Rather, obtaining comparable products from competitors and relabeling was standard operating procedure back in the day. If a company didn't have enough stock to satisfy a customer's order, they would simply get on the phone and purchase comparable products from a competitor. Keeping customers happy was of utmost importance.
> 
> And so we commonly see rebranded and relabeled tubes from all the manufacturers. I routinely see product from Mullard and Fivre relabeled as GEC / Osram / Marconi. So no, it is not a fake. Even though it was not manufactured by Osram, the tube is legitimate. A customer needed a 12SN7GT and got one.



Gotcha. I’ll probably still return them to get a full on B36 or a few 13D1s. I would of kept these if I could readily identify the second tube.


----------



## mordy

Trudging along the tube rolling path with my new GOTL. ATM I am trying out different drivers that I haven't tried before and bought for the GOTL - power tubes are 10A of American Muscle (Cetron 6336B). 
It would be easy to buy the expensive tubes with the best reputations, but that's not for me. You can buy a 40's Sylvania 6SN7W for $25 if you luck out, or for $350. Mind you, the same tube, so am I holding out for a lower price range, but it takes patience.
Meanwhile I got a Sylvania 6SN7WGT from June 1955 ($18). This is a very nice sounding tube with a somewhat bright, brassy presentation in my system with the Cetrons.
Jumped on the Tung Sol BGRP bandwagon. The 6F8G had problems with microphonics. My engineering staff is working overtime to find an antidote (not true). The TS 6SN7 BGRP is too expensive at the moment and I can't find the 12SN7 BGRP at the right price, so I got a TS 6SL7 BGRP relabeled Motorola for $29. Cannot find anything on the tube that says 6SL7 so I have to trust the seller. Sounds similar to the above Sylvania but not as bright.
A long time ago I read an article on the website of JACMusic about a very good sounding tube that isn't so well known - the 12SX7. 
Thanks to myphone I am now able to listen to this 12V tube. The tubes I have are made by RCA, but there are a several manufacturers that made them (unless they all are rebranded).




Look at that - a 2018 tube! Well, January 1953 is more like it:



IMHO a great sounding tube and that can hold it's own and more to the Sylvania 6SN7WGT and the TS BGRP 6SL7.
There is a Taiwanese seller on eBay that has the RCAs for less $15 in the event that you think that you don't have enough tubes lol....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-RCA-1...nkw=12SX7+tube&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0

Again, YMMV, and so far I have not tried drivers with the six pack of 6BX7 tubes, but that's next on the list. But with this great sounding combination there is no rush......


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Hi X255,
> I find it interesting that the same tube that  is quiet in a different amp becomes microphonic in the GOTL but I attribute it to the increased sensitivity and performance of the GOTL.
> I don't have the 6520, but I have Chatham 6AS7G and TS 5998 in addition to a number of others (Svetlana, GEC, RCA etc). And the Brimar 13D1 is on my list. Funny, can't find much to choose from in 25V dual triodes.



One possible explanation for why noisy tubes are more of an issue for our amps is the operating points used.  Glenn tends to push the tubes hard or run them at "full spec" to get the best sound out of them.  A lot of commercial designs, on the other hand, actually operate the tubes very conservatively; often with some degree of sound quality penalty.  I honestly don't blame them either.  They are shooting for a quiet and reliable product that may be sold to somebody who knows nothing about tubes and won't be understanding of some of the quirks that can come along with this type of amp.  This is one of the major areas of gain by having a custom or DIY amp, you can push the design for performance because you don't have to worry about your customer service department getting angry emails.    Of course who knows maybe Glenn has gotten angry emails...... I certainly hope not!  That's just my take on it anyway.

As for the 6520, I would not stress about it too much.  It sounds very similar to the Chatham 6AS7.  IMO the 6520 *is* better, but not so much so that you need to go on a whale hunt for a pair.  I just find them a little more refined sounding with a slightly more pleasant upper range, otherwise they are largely similar to the Chatham/TungSol 6AS7.

Just a quick note about my last post:  I'm not trying to be a downer for anybody here.  Nobody is more proud or supportive of what Glenn accomplishes in these pages than I am.  I just see some people really running away with the tube buying and I feel like it's healthy to offer some perspective sometimes that I don't really see anybody else offering, even if it means being the Gloomy Gus sometimes.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> One possible explanation for why noisy tubes are more of an issue for our amps is the operating points used.  Glenn tends to push the tubes hard or run them at "full spec" to get the best sound out of them.  A lot of commercial designs, on the other hand, actually operate the tubes very conservatively; often with some degree of sound quality penalty.  I honestly don't blame them either.  They are shooting for a quiet and reliable product that may be sold to somebody who knows nothing about tubes and won't be understanding of some of the quirks that can come along with this type of amp.  This is one of the major areas of gain by having a custom or DIY amp, you can push the design for performance because you don't have to worry about your customer service department getting angry emails.    Of course who knows maybe Glenn has gotten angry emails...... I certainly hope not!  That's just my take on it anyway.
> 
> As for the 6520, I would not stress about it too much.  It sounds very similar to the Chatham 6AS7.  IMO the 6520 *is* better, but not so much so that you need to go on a whale hunt for a pair.  I just find them a little more refined sounding with a slightly more pleasant upper range, otherwise they are largely similar to the Chatham/TungSol 6AS7.
> 
> Just a quick note about my last post:  I'm not trying to be a downer for anybody here.  Nobody is more proud or supportive of what Glenn accomplishes in these pages than I am.  I just see some people really running away with the tube buying and I feel like it's healthy to offer some perspective sometimes that I don't really see anybody else offering, even if it means being the Gloomy Gus sometimes.


Hi X255,
When you speak of the TS 6520, do you mean dimpled plates or regular plates? I think I read that there are two variants. How close are the 6520s to the 5998s?
Re the Chathams I never really liked them, but that was in different amps. Got to try them again in the GOTL.

Hi rnros,
Also have to try the C3g tubes. Do I have to be extra careful when pulling them out not to break the glass inside the cover, or are the GOTL sockets easy to use?

Hi 2359glenn,
Since the amp did not come with a manual, could you please tell us which tubes NOT to use in the GOTL? So far I only know about the 12AX7. I also seem to remember that you said that the safety feature for using the wrong voltage tubes does not work for certain tubes.
Thanks,


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi X255,
> Hi rnros,
> Also have to try the C3g tubes. Do I have to be extra careful when pulling them out not to break the glass inside the cover, or are the GOTL sockets easy to use?



The C3g sockets are very easy to use, no difficulty or danger to tube.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Jul 24, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi X255,
> When you speak of the TS 6520, do you mean dimpled plates or regular plates? I think I read that there are two variants. How close are the 6520s to the 5998s?
> Re the Chathams I never really liked them, but that was in different amps. Got to try them again in the GOTL.



Mine do not have dimple plates, they look the same as the plates you would see on a Tung Sol 6AS7G.  I can't speak to the dimple plate version because I only own the one pair.  IMO these tubes sound very different from a 5998 both tonally and in presentation.  They are a smoother and less aggressive sound with more presence in the midrange and a warm glow to the upper range that's sweet and detailed but not bright at all.  If you have ever compared a good RCA 6SN7 tube to a good Tungsol 6SN7 the difference in tonality you would hear in that comparison is fairly similar to the 6520 - 5998 comparison I'm trying to make here.

FWIW over the years I have gravitated away from liking the 5998 sound and have begun to prefer the sound of the 6520 more and more.  They're the only output tubes I own that actually make me like the sound of my Beyer DT880s too.  The only reason the 5998s are in my OTL right now is due to heat.  The chassis is getting alarmingly hot at work and the 5998 helps a bit with that.


----------



## Xcalibur255

@mordy 
The only handling concern you have with the C3g is when they are warm.  The filaments break easily when exposed to shock in this state.  It's best to wait until they cool down before inserting/removing.  Otherwise they are no more fragile than any other tube and you don't have to tip-toe around them.  If you have the Yamamoto sockets the insertion feels like a mechanical "click" when the center pin locks.  It doesn't take all that much force to get them in, and when they are in you will know it.  They're good sockets.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi X255,
> When you speak of the TS 6520, do you mean dimpled plates or regular plates? I think I read that there are two variants. How close are the 6520s to the 5998s?
> Re the Chathams I never really liked them, but that was in different amps. Got to try them again in the GOTL.



I do have the dimple plate 6520 that resembles the 5998, and those do have a similar sound to 5998. 
IMO, if you have the 5998 you don't really need the dimple plate 6520. 
But the 6520 does have a different amplification factor and transconductance than 5998. (6520 AF is 2, same as 6AS7, 5998 AF is 5.5.)
Not familiar with the TS 6520 that Xcal is describing.


----------



## Xcalibur255

A really easy way to put it would be that the TS 6520 is a more refined sounding TS/Chatham 6AS7G.  The tone is a bit sweeter, in a good way, but you can clearly tell the tubes are related.

IMO the worst thing about the 5998 was always the higher amplification factor, which the amp didn't need.  All it does is draw out any noise issues.  The only time I can hear hum on my OTL is when the 5998 are in, it has always been silent using 6080/6AS7 tubes unless the tubes themselves have something weird going on.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I am building another 300B amp yours was the last one I built.  This one will use HEXFRED rectifiers and a timer for soft start of B+. I would prefer to use the 42EC4 Damper diodes
> but Tony had one fail and the circuit breaker in his house blew before the 2 amp fuse in the amp did. I never had a problem with these tubes before just a bad tube and maybe
> a weak breaker. Now this tube has a bad rep. I did have a 6EC4 fail really the same tube but it was in a SV572-3 amp running at 1200 volts that would be 2400 or more PIV
> across the tube. Only the fuse in the amp blew.
> ...




I won't be getting a 300B amp, but in my upcoming OTL I will be using the 42EC4 damper diodes....love the soft start of these not to mention that they sound great and are dirt cheap.


----------



## gibosi

rnros said:


> I do have the dimple plate 6520 that resembles the 5998, and those do have a similar sound to 5998.
> IMO, if you have the 5998 you don't really need the dimple plate 6520.
> But the 6520 does have a different amplification factor and transconductance than 5998. (6520 AF is 2, same as 6AS7, 5998 AF is 5.5.)
> Not familiar with the TS 6520 that Xcal is describing.



I have seen 6520's that look identical to the TS-6AS7 and others that look identical to the TS-5998. Given that the spec sheet for the 6520 states that it has the same characteristics as the 6AS7, but with a few tweaks, I am inclined to believe that a real 6520 looks identical to the TS-6AS7. The version that looks like a TS-5998 is likely just a 5998 that was labeled as a 6520 at the factory. After all, the 5998 and 6520 are similar enough that in many situations one can be substituted for the other. And back in the day, this sort of deliberate mislabeling at the factory was not uncommon....


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Trudging along the tube rolling path with my new GOTL. ATM I am trying out different drivers that I haven't tried before and bought for the GOTL - power tubes are 10A of American Muscle (Cetron 6336B).
> It would be easy to buy the expensive tubes with the best reputations, but that's not for me. You can buy a 40's Sylvania 6SN7W for $25 if you luck out, or for $350. Mind you, the same tube, so am I holding out for a lower price range, but it takes patience.
> Meanwhile I got a Sylvania 6SN7WGT from June 1955 ($18). This is a very nice sounding tube with a somewhat bright, brassy presentation in my system with the Cetrons.
> Jumped on the Tung Sol BGRP bandwagon. The 6F8G had problems with microphonics. My engineering staff is working overtime to find an antidote (not true). The TS 6SN7 BGRP is too expensive at the moment and I can't find the 12SN7 BGRP at the right price, so I got a TS 6SL7 BGRP relabeled Motorola for $29. Cannot find anything on the tube that says 6SL7 so I have to trust the seller. Sounds similar to the above Sylvania but not as bright.
> ...



Mordy
Here are a pair of Tung-Sol round plate tubes not so bad if you sell one to someone that has a GOTL and wants one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...&_sacat=0&_nkw=tung+sol+12SN7&_from=R40&rt=nc
Who knows maybe Santa will send you a 13D1/25SN7


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Mordy
> Here are a pair of Tung-Sol round plate tubes not so bad if you sell one to someone that has a GOTL and wants one.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Tung-Sol-Fordom-MR-12SN7-GT-Black-Glass-Vacuum-Tubes-Very-Strong/183299486656?hash=item2aad8033c0:g:8~oAAOSwFtZamdRP&_pgn=1&_sacat=0&_nkw=tung+sol+12SN7&_from=R40&rt=nc
> Who knows maybe Santa will send you a 13D1/25SN7


Hi 2359glenn,
Have been eyeing those for a while - looks like the seller greengirl likes green...
I'd rather look for a different rebranded TS 12SN7 BGRP that was bought for $13 shipped not long ago.
Did you say EF86 was a no-no?


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> @mordy
> The only handling concern you have with the C3g is when they are warm.  The filaments break easily when exposed to shock in this state.  It's best to wait until they cool down before inserting/removing.  Otherwise they are no more fragile than any other tube and you don't have to tip-toe around them.  If you have the Yamamoto sockets the insertion feels like a mechanical "click" when the center pin locks.  It doesn't take all that much force to get them in, and when they are in you will know it.  They're good sockets.


Hi X255,
Today is See Tree day. Went through my inventory and realized that I have ten C3g tubes - how did I get so many? Must have been irresistible prices....All are labeled Siemens. 
Three are of the old embossed variety, the rest are smooth encasings. Of these five are regular and one pair is the pic of the crop S version.
The S version means that it comes from the top ten % in measurements. The S is just written with a marker on the tube base - hope it is genuine.
Used these in my old amps with less than optimal sockets and learned the hard way (together with others) that you cannot rock these tubes back and forth to release them from the sockets. Doing this resulted in a ping and a cracked glass envelope inside the tube. Perhaps these tubes that were used for undersea transatlantic cables had tempered glass to withstand the underwater pressures, making them fragile.
These  were very expensive when they came out - around DM200 in the 60's which I think would translate into several hundred dollars in today's currency.
This is my favorite tube picture - found it somewhere on the net:




I think the blue light is from Beryllium.
The GOTL sockets are much better quality than what I had in the past - easy to use.
Turned on the amp and let things settle in for 20 min. Then a noise test without music - some hum above the highest listening levels, but quiet at normal levels.
Saw this on a tube forum: "If they build it, it hums." Feel free to disagree....
Turned on the preamp and power amp. Excellent sound with a meaty, full bass. This is the first time I am using the C3g in an amp specially designed for them.

Next is C3gS - have fun.
(All impressions with a pair of Ctn 6336B as powers.)


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> A really easy way to put it would be that the TS 6520 is a more refined sounding TS/Chatham 6AS7G.  The tone is a bit sweeter, in a good way, but you can clearly tell the tubes are related.
> 
> IMO the worst thing about the 5998 was always the higher amplification factor, which the amp didn't need.  All it does is draw out any noise issues.  The only time I can hear hum on my OTL is when the 5998 are in, it has always been silent using 6080/6AS7 tubes unless the tubes themselves have something weird going on.


Hi X255,
Another question: I like the 6336. There is another 5A tube, the 6528, that is similar, but with a higher amplification factor. I only have one 6528A. The amplification factor for the 6336B is 2.7 (the 6AS7/6080 family is 2.5), and the amplification factor for the 6528A is 9.0.
Should I not bother with finding another 6528A?
I must confess that I don't understand the relationship of amplification factor between different driver tubes and how they synergize with power tubes. How is the overall amplification factor affected when using multiple power tubes?


----------



## gibosi

Mordy, IMO, 6336 and 6528 manufactured by the same company sound very similar. And as one might expect, those manufactured by different companies can sound quite different. I have a pair of Raytheon 6528 and they sound quite different than the Chatham / Cetron. Personally, I prefer the Cetron over the Raytheon.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Jul 24, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi X255,
> Another question: I like the 6336. There is another 5A tube, the 6528, that is similar, but with a higher amplification factor. I only have one 6528A. The amplification factor for the 6336B is 2.7 (the 6AS7/6080 family is 2.5), and the amplification factor for the 6528A is 9.0.
> Should I not bother with finding another 6528A?
> I must confess that I don't understand the relationship of amplification factor between different driver tubes and how they synergize with power tubes. How is the overall amplification factor affected when using multiple power tubes?



You just add it all together.  For example a 6SN7 is a Mu (amplification factor) of 20.  A 6AS7G is 2.  A 5998 is 5.  So you get 20 x 2 = 40 running 6SN7 + 6AS7.  You get 20 x 5 = 100 running 6SN7 + 5998.  For your amp you would treat all of the output tube sockets as a single value because they are wired in parallel, not series.  So if you have 4 x 6AS7 in the sockets your gain for that stage of the amp is still only 2, not 4 if that makes sense.  It's possible to get a lot of Mu depending on tube choice.  C3g + 6BX7 for example is 40 x 10 = 400.  You now have 10x more amplification factor than the base setup.  The relationship isn't linear though, you don't literally have 10x more volume output.

Any electrical noise in the amp such as transformer hum gets amplified more as the Mu factor goes up, so having more gain than you need results in a noisier amp in general.  It also makes most of your volume control unusable for no good reason.  IMO most commercial amps have way more gain than they need.  Glenn's OTL when operating with 6AS7 tubes is the perfect gain.  Enough for any headphone but doesn't have tons of worthless headroom.

I can't tell you if you should pursue the 6528 or not.  Your preferences are bound to be different from mine, and if the the amp is quiet enough for your needs in that configuration and you like the sound then there is certainly no harm in it.  C3g + 6528 might bring out a lot of hums and buzzes that used to be silent though.


----------



## Xcalibur255

On the subject of C3g:  if there is a sonic difference in the 'S' high transconductance version I couldn't hear it.  I wasn't trying to very hard or for very long though admittedly.  I only ran mine long enough to confirm they were good tubes that didn't make noise.

I own a pair of bare glass C3g tubes myself.  Getting the metal cans off was a miserable PITA that I will not do again.  I made two pairs, and sold one pair to somebody else here in the Glenn amp club.  It looks cool, but you're honestly better off leaving the cans on.  They provide electrical grounding and are part of the tube's design.  I couldn't keep the bases on mine either, the glue would become brittle from heat and stay stuck in the socket when I pulled the tubes up.  Getting the pin orientation correct without those bases is a bit stressful too.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> ...Went through my inventory and realized that I have ten C3g tubes - how did I get so many? Must have been *irresistible* prices....All are labeled Siemens.
> Three are of the old embossed variety, the rest are smooth encasings. Of these five are regular and one pair is the pic of the crop S version.
> The S version means that it comes from the top ten % in measurements. The S is just written with a marker on the tube base - hope it is genuine.
> Used these in my old amps with less than optimal sockets and learned the hard way (together with others) that you cannot rock these tubes back and forth to release them from the sockets. Doing this resulted in a ping and a cracked glass envelope inside the tube. Perhaps these tubes that were used for undersea transatlantic cables had tempered glass to withstand the underwater pressures, making them fragile.
> These  were very expensive when they came out - around DM200 in the 60's which I think would translate into several hundred dollars in today's currency.



Speaking of _irresistible_ prices how are these for *resistible* prices: TFK C3gS at 999Euro/$1169 for a pair, 499Euro/$584 for a single!
LOL Crazy. Seems like the seller is playing eBay Lotto... Worth a try, I guess.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Paar-Postr...ken-C3g-s-C-3-g-s-NOS-OVP-11-12/223021198676?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Postrohre-...-C3g-s-Gepruft-Sehr-gut-NOS-OVP/263219251742?

Although, TFK C3gS is priced higher sometimes, Jac-Music prices them at 201Euro for a single. 
I think it just reflects the supply and Telefunken reputation, not actual quality/SQ difference. IMHO.
On quick compare, I haven't heard a significant, or even noticeable, difference between the 'S' and the standard version, or between TFK and Siemens.
The least expensive pair of NOS Siemens C3g I have sounds as good as the NOS TFK C3gS I have.

Don't think the glass is tempered, that would make it tougher, not fragile. 
Tempered can handle higher impact, and when it does fail/break, it shatters into smaller (safer) pieces, thus it's use as safety glass.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi X255,
> Another question: I like the 6336. There is another 5A tube, the 6528, that is similar, but with a higher amplification factor. I only have one 6528A. The amplification factor for the 6336B is 2.7 (the 6AS7/6080 family is 2.5), and the amplification factor for the 6528A is 9.0.
> Should I not bother with finding another 6528A?
> I must confess that I don't understand the relationship of amplification factor between different driver tubes and how they synergize with power tubes. How is the overall amplification factor affected when using multiple power tubes?



My experience with the Cetron 6528A is good, but not anything that surpasses the CTN 6336B.
There is a link for the tube in this previous post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1278#post-14138919


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi X255,
> Another question: I like the 6336. There is another 5A tube, the 6528, that is similar, but with a higher amplification factor. I only have one 6528A. The amplification factor for the 6336B is 2.7 (the 6AS7/6080 family is 2.5), and the amplification factor for the 6528A is 9.0.
> Should I not bother with finding another 6528A?
> I must confess that I don't understand the relationship of amplification factor between different driver tubes and how they synergize with power tubes. How is the overall amplification factor affected when using multiple power tubes?



Tyrell is right with the gain of the tubes you are better off with the lowest gain output tubes.
You are not used to a amp with gain in the output stage. FA amps are cathode follower output stage and has 0 gain no matter what the gain of the output tube is.
Also that is why my amp runs so much cooler then your old amps. My amps the heat is dissipated in the tubes not under the chassis in screaming hot cathode 
resistors.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jul 24, 2018)

My C3g's are pretty microphonic in the GOTL.  Quietest driver has been the 12AU7's from the 1970's. 
Really think a good 12AU7 and the six pack of 6BX7's are hard to beat in Glenn's GOTL.
Glenn says "quiet is most important to him"...

I have come to appreciate that sentiment, too. 

With a 12AU7 in the drivers' seat...quiet is easily obtained.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Saw this on a tube forum: "If they build it, it hums." Feel free to disagree....



Here is an observation and a question for Glenn.

Observation: Running my 12au7 and a six pack of 6bx7, music paused, SENN hi-Z cans and GOTL turned up all the way, there is just BARELY a little hum. This is Vastly beyond listening levels.  At any listenable level....no hum is heard.

Glenn Question: I know Mordy's GOTL has the RCA outs.  Is this simply a copy of the output that normally goes to the headphones?

.


----------



## leftside

Turns out I have some 13D1 tubes as well. Very tough to find, but cheap when/if you do find them. Looking forward to trying them in the GOTL one day.


----------



## Monsterzero

Are Mullard 12AU7s recommended for the GOTL,and if so which one?
I have read that theyre warm but still detailed,true?


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jul 24, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> Are Mullard 12AU7s recommended for the GOTL,and if so which one?
> I have read that theyre warm but still detailed,true?



I have a few, a couple of "Harman Kardon" branded ones, which I think were found to be Philips, made in Holland around 1970.  Love these and some other same era Amperex (also Philips).

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1287#post-14168014

Yes, warm and detailed and as stated, very nice and quiet in the GOTL.   No weird pops/tingles, springy noises...


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Are Mullard 12AU7s recommended for the GOTL,and if so which one?
> I have read that theyre warm but still detailed,true?


Very early ones are the best. Pre 1957 - only with a hint of warmness and excel at everything else. 1957 and onwards they are still very good tubes, but as they get newer then tend to get a little warmer and lose a little of everything else. Same with the 12AX7's. I run a 1955 Mullard 12AU7 in one of my DACs.


----------



## Monsterzero

How does one I.D. a pre-1957 from the rest?


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> How does one I.D. a pre-1957 from the rest?



When dealing with tubes manufactured by Philips and its subsidiaries, the production code will reveal the date, factory, type and revision number:

https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf


----------



## JazzVinyl

Good 12AU7's are like the better 6SN7's...thier reputation precedes them, and they command high prices.  Be like Mordy, be patient, put your search / email alerts in....wait it out and pay a lower price for one.

I don't think I have any pre 1957 examples, but going by leftside's description, I think i would prefer a warmer/less treble one anyway, as I tend to be treble sensitive and bass appreciative.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Good 12AU7's are like the better 6SN7's



I have a Tung-Sol 6SN7GT VT-231 round plate and a 6SN7GT Ken-RAD incoming. How would those stack up vs. pre '57 12AU7s?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> I have a Tung-Sol 6SN7GT VT-231 round plate and a 6SN7GT Ken-RAD incoming. How would those stack up vs. pre '57 12AU7s?



No pre 1957 12AU7 here...but the 1940's Ken Rad VT-231 is a favorite of mine....I love bass and the Ken Rad has it, in spades 

All are great tubes that you will love in the GOTL.  Not to worry, you will be a happy "inner space" (Vacuum tube) explorer....


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Good 12AU7's are like the better 6SN7's...thier reputation precedes them, and they command high prices.  Be like Mordy, be patient, put your search / email alerts in....wait it out and pay a lower price for one.
> 
> I don't think I have any pre 1957 examples, but going by leftside's description, I think i would prefer a warmer/less treble one anyway, as I tend to be treble sensitive and bass appreciative.


It's not really warmness vs treble we're talking about here. It's better defined clarity, bass, soundstage, depth, etc. The better 12AX7 and 12AU7 tubes reveal more of the sound - like lifting a veil. It's subtle, but it's there. If you listen for a week or two and then go back to some of the newer tubes you'll hear the difference - especially with amps or preamp that take more than one of these tubes. I'll be very interested to see how much of an impact they have on the GOTL - especially when compared to the C3G and 12/6SN7's. Maybe the impact won't be detectable on the GOTL.

I paid $100 for a good Mullard Mitcham 1955 12AU7 long plates square getter. You can pay double (or more) for a similar Mullard 1955 12AX7.

Yes - they command high prices, but I find it truly amazing these 60-70 year old tubes still come up for sale. One day they won't. Perhaps then we'll have DACs that we can program to sound as if they were running these old tubes.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> I have a Tung-Sol 6SN7GT VT-231 round plate and a 6SN7GT Ken-RAD incoming. How would those stack up vs. pre '57 12AU7s?


Those are great tubes. Get a Mullard 12AU7 and tell us


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Those are great tubes. Get a Mullard 12AU7 and tell us



Haha I was hoping yall could tell _me_!


JazzVinyl said:


> No pre 1957 12AU7 here...but the 1940's Ken Rad VT-231 is a favorite of mine....I love bass and the Ken Rad has it, in spades
> 
> All are great tubes that you will love in the GOTL.  Not to worry, you will be a happy "inner space" (Vacuum tube) explorer....



Perhaps a better way to pose my question would be,is there a wide enough difference in their sound sig that keeps it from being redundant? Im on a pretty tight budget and cannot afford redundancy at this point.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> When dealing with tubes manufactured by Philips and its subsidiaries, the production code will reveal the date, factory, type and revision number:
> 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf


Thanks for sharing. I'm going to have to study that in more detail. The GEC KT88 date codes are much easier to understand


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Haha I was hoping yall could tell _me_!
> .


Well the GOTL is one of the very few amps in the world that takes such a variety of tubes. Most people on here tend to stick to the 12/6SN7 varieties. When @2359glenn builds my GOTL I'll be able to tell you, as I have a few 12AU7's (and lot's of 6SN7's).


----------



## Xcalibur255

JazzVinyl said:


> Glenn Question: I know Mordy's GOTL has the RCA outs.  Is this simply a copy of the output that normally goes to the headphones?
> 
> .


As originally built my OTL's RCA output jacks were actually an active pre-amp stage using the 6SN7 driver.  When I returned the amp to Glenn to have him try the at-the-time experimental "5998 switch" modification I asked him to convert it to a simple line output so I could daisy-chain another amp onto a DAC whose outputs were already all in use.

The former is cooler and more valuable, but the latter probably useful in more setups.  I'm also curious what most of the Glenn amps built afterward were setup for in this regard.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Monsterzero said:


> I have a Tung-Sol 6SN7GT VT-231 round plate and a 6SN7GT Ken-RAD incoming. How would those stack up vs. pre '57 12AU7s?



If you have a black glass round plate Tung Sol 6SN7, then you have more or less reached the end of the 6SN7 road.  There are a few other tubes out there that are on the same level and might offer a different tonal flavor, such as the metal base Sylvanias, but generally speaking the BGRP does most things better than most tubes and is very easy to like.  The only 6SN7 tube I personally consider to be clearly superior is the Marconi Osram B65 and those things are terrifyingly expensive.  Actually I might be tempted to add the ECC33 to that list too, but they're also very expensive and I only listened to one on loan so I don't have a firm set of listening impressions.  I was extremely impressed the one time I heard it though.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> I have a few, a couple of "Harman Kardon" branded ones, which I think were found to be Philips, made in Holland around 1970.  Love these and some other same era Amperex (also Philips).
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1287#post-14168014
> 
> Yes, warm and detailed and as stated, very nice and quiet in the GOTL.   No weird pops/tingles, springy noises...



I have a old preamp I built that uses Harman Kardon 12AU7s compleatly quiet. Don't know who made them only
Says made in Germany. At the time I worked for Harman Kardon so they were easy for me to get.
Should have gotten some KT88s but I would have used them up by now.
So if you can find some 12AU7s labeled Harman Kardon cheep get them.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I have a Tung-Sol 6SN7GT VT-231 round plate and a 6SN7GT Ken-RAD incoming. How would those stack up vs. pre '57 12AU7s?



Both the Tung Sol  6SN7GT VT-231 & the Ken Rad 6SN7GT with staggered plates are wonderful sounding tubes.

The Tung Sol black glass round plate is my favorite driver tube that does not have a metal shield around it!

I can't comment on 12AU7 as I do not use any of these in my OTL.

I really have not heard very many 6/12  SN7 tubes from the 1940's that I did not like...most are wonderful.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> It's not really warmness vs treble we're talking about here. It's better defined clarity, bass, soundstage, depth, etc. The better 12AX7 and 12AU7 tubes reveal more of the sound - like lifting a veil. It's subtle, but it's there. If you listen for a week or two and then go back to some of the newer tubes you'll hear the difference - especially with amps or preamp that take more than one of these tubes. I'll be very interested to see how much of an impact they have on the GOTL - especially when compared to the C3G and 12/6SN7's. Maybe the impact won't be detectable on the GOTL.



I hear ya, leftside...

Speaking of clarity and lifted veils...I have a fully balanced DAC and fully balanced SS Amp, and that is exactly what I hear in that rig.  A huge thick veil is lifted.  It is anything _but_ subtle.  Details not even hinted at via a non balanced source are brought forward.  

The most amazing thing is...even on non hi-res, just regular old redbook 16 bit/44.1 kHz lossless files, there lies details, and clarity you never knew was possible from those 1's and 0's.

Makes ya wonder why it took 35 years to bring forth this level of audio quality from a format that was introduced to the public in 1983.

Cheers...


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> I have a Tung-Sol 6SN7GT VT-231 round plate and a 6SN7GT Ken-RAD incoming. How would those stack up vs. pre '57 12AU7s?



While the 12AU7 is a good tube, if you are considering the use of all-glass miniatures, there are others that are at least as good and maybe even better in the GOTL:

For example:

6DJ8 / ECC88 plus premium versions
6N23P
ECC40
E80CC / 6085
E182CC / 7119


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> While the 12AU7 is a good tube, if you are considering the use of all-glass miniatures, there are others that are at least as good and maybe even better in the GOTL:
> 
> For example:
> 
> ...


I have a few of those to try as well!


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> I hear ya, leftside...
> 
> Speaking of clarity and lifted veils...I have a fully balanced DAC and fully balanced SS Amp, and that is exactly what I hear in that rig.  A huge thick veil is lifted.  It is anything _but_ subtle.  Details not even hinted at via a non balanced source are brought forward.
> 
> ...


Yes better equipment will effect the sound more than tubes. I used to believe digital was good for on-the-go or for convenience only. But now, I can quite happily listen to digital with the lights off and "enjoy". DACs have come a long way. Actually I've had no choice the last 10 weeks as my cartridge has been at Soundsmith getting serviced/retipped - but it should be back this week!


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Yes better equipment will effect the sound more than tubes. I used to believe digital was good for on-the-go or for convenience only. But now, I can quite happily listen to digital with the lights off and "enjoy". DACs have come a long way. Actually I've had no choice the last 10 weeks as my cartridge has been at Soundsmith getting serviced/retipped - but it should be back this week!



Agree with all you say, leftside!!

Hope you get your cart back, soon.  I listened to some Tangerine Dream via vinyl, this AM, as I prepared for work


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> he Tung Sol black glass round plate is my favorite driver tube that does not have a metal shield around it!



Sorry if this a dumb question,but the way you worded that has me wondering if there is significance with metal shields. Do those shields improve the sound? And when mention the shields are you referring to the body of the tube,or is that a reference to an internal design?

Trying to learn.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Sorry if this a dumb question,but the way you worded that has me wondering if there is significance with metal shields. Do those shields improve the sound? And when mention the shields are you referring to the body of the tube,or is that a reference to an internal design?
> 
> Trying to learn.



Some tubes have metal-wrapping around the base. This metal wrapping has no effect on the sound, but it just so happens that two of the most coveted 6SN7s, the GEC B65 and Sylvania have this wrapping. And on the left is a Russian Melz 1578, a premium 6SN7, which some rave over, but not me. 




And sometimes this wrapping cracks...

 

But it's easily fixed! lol


----------



## gibosi (Jul 25, 2018)

An interesting tube arrived in the mail today: An RCA Radiotron UV-200.



This is the first RCA tube. When RCA was first established in 1919 it had no manufacturing facilities. So RCA turned to GE to manufacture and furnish a vacuum tube to be used as a detector. GE dusted off the VT-13, which it had developed for the US Army in 1918, changed the filament voltage, and the UV-200 was born.

No, I am not going to try to use this in the GOTL. lol. In fact, this is the very first tube I have ever purchased purely as a collectible. It wasn't much money and it is kind of neat to hold in my hands a 100 year-old tube, the first RCA.


----------



## mordy

Walking down the rabbit hole strewn tube rolling lane...
What sounds better, the old embossed C3g or the newer C3gS?



In this case the new ones sounded better with better bass and treble extension. However, it could be because the S version I bought new, and all the others were used and possibly very tired tubes - figured I could not go too wrong with tubes with a 10,000 hour life.
In any case, I could stop the tube rolling with this combo of C3gS/6336B - it is that good. But you know what the answer is to that....


----------



## mordy (Jul 25, 2018)

Speaking about the high prices for the C3g tubes, there is a lower priced alternative:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/4x-5A-152M-...900229?hash=item4408b5ad45:g:7NwAAOSwXaRaAGOB
This is a British made 5A/152M. It is also a loctal tube, but it has a different pinout than the C3g, and I don't know of anybody who used it, but the price is right. It was made by STC which may be connected with GEC(?)


----------



## leftside

ITT and STC one and the same:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Telephones_and_Cables


----------



## leftside (Jul 25, 2018)

How about Telefunken C3g embossed vs non-embossed?  Yes always hard to say if one particular make of tube is better than the other - unless both have been tested and/or have some idea of how many hours are on them.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 25, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> Sorry if this a dumb question,but the way you worded that has me wondering if there is significance with metal shields. Do those shields improve the sound? And when mention the shields are you referring to the body of the tube,or is that a reference to an internal design?
> 
> Trying to learn.



That was my bad @Monsterzero..I should not have worded my post that way...I should have just said what I meant.
I was referring to the C3g driver tubes, when I said metal shields.

What I should have said was the Tung Sol Black Glass Round plate is my favorite driver tube..other than the C3g driver tubes.

And to my ears the 6SN7 Tung Sol sounds the same as the 6F8G version


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> An interesting tube arrived in the mail today: An RCA Radiotron UV-200.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





whirlwind said:


> That was my bad @Monsterzero..I should not have worded my post that way...I should have just said what I meant.
> I was referring to the C3g driver tubes, when I said metal shields.
> 
> What I should have said was the Tung Sol Black Glass Round plate is my favorite driver tube..other than the C3g driver tubes.
> ...





gibosi said:


> An interesting tube arrived in the mail today: An RCA Radiotron UV-200.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Then there is the UV-201 the next tube from RCA amplifier I have some that are RCA on one side and GE on the other.
Supposed to sound better then the #26 but try to find one that is not microphonic.
I have some old radios 3 tube that uses 3 of these tubes battery radios as most of the country did not have power yet.
The radios work have a power supply 6 volt and 68 volt the radios only work with 300 ohm headphones. 
Kind of neat though.


----------



## 2359glenn

I called Stavros today to see if he was OK
That hole airier of Greece was burning couldn't get in touch but kept on calling until the call went through.
The hole town of Mati burned down in 2 hrs. There was 60 fires burning out of control in 50mph winds
That is where we stayed the first time we went there.
Stayed in a hotel overlooking the Again sea The most beautiful place I ever stayed. It is all gone now
nothing left 72 people killed there.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I called Stavros today to see if he was OK
> That hole airier of Greece was burning couldn't get in touch but kept on calling until the call went through.
> The hole town of Mati burned down in 2 hrs. There was 60 fires burning out of control in 50mph winds
> That is where we stayed the first time we went there.
> ...




I hope Starvos is ok.

After you posted this I went to read up on it...what a shame.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/n...he-fires-in-mati-greece-spread-a-visual-guide


----------



## leftside

That's terrible news for Greece.

1.2 million hectares burned in BC Canada last year. About 1/10th the size of England.
https://globalnews.ca/news/3921710/b-c-year-in-review-2017-wildfires/


----------



## 2359glenn

Western North America is terrible for fires USA and Canada.
Guess the weather is to dry and Beatles are killing all the pine trees. This has spread to the east too.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> I called Stavros today to see if he was OK
> That hole airier of Greece was burning couldn't get in touch but kept on calling until the call went through.
> The hole town of Mati burned down in 2 hrs. There was 60 fires burning out of control in 50mph winds
> That is where we stayed the first time we went there.
> ...


Oh, no.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Western North America is terrible for fires USA and Canada.
> Guess the weather is to dry and Beatles are killing all the pine trees. This has spread to the east too.



You didn't say if Starvos was okay, guess he was.  Does he live in the town that burned? His home escape the flames?

Yes, the west has been burning up for years.  Rained ashes here for a week in 2003 and 2012 as human caused fires burned to our south and west. Scary stuff.

The Pine beetles killing the trees....they lay eggs in the soft membrane between the bark and the wood trunk of the three, the part that carries water and nutrients up the tree from the ground.  The eggs hatch and the larvae eat the membrane, starving and killing the tree.

Natures pest control for the beetles is bitter cold.  If it gets to around minus 20 F and stays there longer than 3 days, most of the beetles die.  But it has not been that cold that long,  in decades...


.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> You didn't say if Starvos was okay, guess he was.  Does he live in the town that burned? His home escape the flames?
> 
> Yes, the west has been burning up for years.  Rained ashes here for a week in 2003 and 2012 as human caused fires burned to our south and west. Scary stuff.
> 
> ...



Yes Stavros is OK he doesn't live right there but not far away
The pine trees started dying in Upstate New York of this too.
Now that I moved to North Carolina I see it here too but it never gets that cold here in NY it did.
So I guess this beetle goes unchecked until no pine trees left.


----------



## Althalus

2359glenn said:


> Yes Stavros is OK he doesn't live right there but not far away



Thanks Glenn, that's good news in these dark days .


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Jul 26, 2018)

Well, it's good to know Stavros and his family are safe at least.  Maybe it's just the times we live in, where everybody is supposed to be scared about everything, but it seems like more and more bad things happen than they used to.

The beetles are killing all the trees in our forest too, except for the one mountain the burned down a couple of years ago from fire.  That was just a few miles from town.  It felt surreal to watch it.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> Well, it's good to know Stavros and his family are safe at least.  Maybe it's just the times we live in, where everybody is supposed to be scared about everything, but it seems like more and more bad things happen than they used to.
> 
> The beetles are killing all the trees in our forest too, except for the one mountain the burned down a couple of years ago from fire.  That was just a few miles from town.  It felt surreal to watch it.


I am not so sure that more bad things happen today, but the technology and communications are there to instantly transmit what is happening, most anywhere on the globe.
And unfortunately I think that bad news sell better than good news....


----------



## Monsterzero

Xcalibur255 said:


> If you have a black glass round plate Tung Sol 6SN7, then you have more or less reached the end of the 6SN7 road.



Man,you werent kidding! This thing sounds SICK! And I mean that in the positive way(kids these days and their slang) I dont think Ive ever heard such a combination of bass(not quite as slammin as the C3G) tonality and especially soundstage both width,depth and layering and 3D holograhic imaging.

Now if I could just track down the source of this grain in my system I'd be a happy camper!


----------



## mordy

Rolled a number of drivers in rapid succession with Cetron 6336B as power tubes:
Siemens C3g
Tung Sol 6SL7 BGRP
Tung Sol 6F8G BGLP (ladder plate)
Sylvania 6SN7WGT
RCA 12SX7
Foton 6H8C 1967
Foton 6H8C ribbed anode 1955

Is it my imagination that the differences  between tubes with the GOTL are more subtle than compared to my other Feliks Audio amps?
Everything sounds good, even a plebeian $2 Foton tube. In the past I felt that the Cetrons brought out the best in the tubes, but that cannot account for there being such subtle differences.
Some tubes are a little brighter, some a little darker, some emphasize the bass or treble a little more, but on the whole the differences are not as noticeable as in the past, and much more difficult to quantify.
Am I hearing right?


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for sharing, Glenn. Silently grieving over the loss of lives and living areas. Very relieved our brother - _and his most wonderful family_ - are still with us.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Rolled a number of drivers in rapid succession with Cetron 6336B as power tubes:
> Siemens C3g
> Tung Sol 6SL7 BGRP
> Tung Sol 6F8G BGLP (ladder plate)
> ...



When the operating points are right most of the tubes sound good.
I make this amp to sound good with cheep tubes my motto.


----------



## 2359glenn

Silent One said:


> Thanks for sharing, Glenn. Silently grieving over the loss of lives and living areas. Very relieved our brother - _and his most wonderful family_ - are still with us.



I will know more on Saturday morning after I Skype Stavros.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Monsterzero said:


> Man,you werent kidding! This thing sounds SICK! And I mean that in the positive way(kids these days and their slang) I dont think Ive ever heard such a combination of bass(not quite as slammin as the C3G) tonality and especially soundstage both width,depth and layering and 3D holograhic imaging.
> 
> Now if I could just track down the source of this grain in my system I'd be a happy camper!


Grain as in grainy highs or harshness?  This has been my eternal struggle.  Paying attention to cables, both interconnects and headphone cables, has helped quite a bit, but the battle still isn't won for me.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jul 27, 2018)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Grain as in grainy highs or harshness?  This has been my eternal struggle.  Paying attention to cables, both interconnects and headphone cables, has helped quite a bit, but the battle still isn't won for me.



The grain actually migrates. It started in the highs,then I messed around with cables and that cleared up the highs,but then it went into the bass! It was so bad I thought my Atticus were blown,but no,but since the Atticus has such pronounced mid bass it accentuated the issue more than other headphones. So the other night I tore down my entire system,Deox'd dirty plugs,connects,pins. That really helped open up the staging and detail,but now the grain is in the mids(I Schiit you not). Im very frustrated.

Ive tried two diff computers,two different player software,checked that the settings were correct on computer,two different DACs,bought all new cables(RCAs,USB,Coax and power) three diff amps,with and without Schiit Eitr....all the same issues.

If anyone has any ideas,im open to suggestions.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> When the operating points are right most of the tubes sound good.
> I make this amp to sound good with cheep tubes my motto.


Thanks.
I am planning a shootout between C3g + 4xGEC (just need bank manager's approval to access the safety box) compared to $10 worth of tubes - maybe Foton + 4xRCA 6080 bought a couple of years ago.
It is incredible that when buying the C3g and GEC 6AS7 you could pay more than what the amp cost.....

When I wrote that I changed the tubes in rapid succession I meant that I swapped them out very quickly. Glenn told me that as long as headphones or speakers are not connected, you can even hot swap the tubes without damaging the amp (but the pops could damage the HPs or speakers if left connected). I was afraid to do a hot swap, so I shut off the amp, waited until I could not hear any sounds (about 30 seconds, although it takes about 5 minutes for the capacitors to discharge)  unplugged the HPs, and switched out the tubes.

Now, if all tubes sound good in the GOTL, the time has come for this:
MOUSE DANCING WITH ELEPHANTS
or
SPIDERMAN COMES TO GOTL, or whatever......
Tube rolling is supposed to be fun, right?
I just had do it - pairing the smallest subminiature double triode with the gigantic 6336 tubes. The results are really pleasing - a nice, mellow sound. 
WHY? Why not? 
Meet the indomitable Raytheon JAN CK6832:



 
These 6.3V 0.4A tubes are still available for $3.50 each if bought as a pair:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Raytheon-J...=6832+tube&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313




Have fun!


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> Thanks.
> I am planning a shootout between C3g + 4xGEC (just need bank manager's approval to access the safety box) compared to $10 worth of tubes - maybe Foton + 4xRCA 6080 bought a couple of years ago.
> It is incredible that when buying the C3g and GEC 6AS7 you could pay more than what the amp cost.....
> 
> ...


That looks like the spaghetti monster on your tube amp


----------



## mordy (Jul 27, 2018)

Having fulfilled my childhood fantasies, and being prompted by heat expansion clicks from my non-soldered wires in the 9pin CK6832 adapter, I took out this tube. Realizing that the adapter accommodates 6DJ8 family tubes I plugged in a tube that has a good reputation: the 1974 Voskhod 6N23P.



The results were, as my grand children say, "gooder." Quite good sounding with a nice even FR and good bass.
The amp sits on a Standesign equipment rack. If you look at the top right you can see the grill of a 4" PC fan hanging there. The fan is placed so that that it pulls air away from the amp. Glenn tells me that this amp (without ventilation holes!) doesn't get very hot and that the heat is dissipated by the tubes and not through resistors and that it can handle even 10A power tubes without a problem, being on 24/7. After the amp warms up I turn on the fan as a precaution, and it definitively makes the chassis feel cooler.
Great sounding tube with excellent bass! And quiet too. It took several tries with Google Translate to convince the Russian seller to send me 1974 tubes. They were slightly used and cost $4 each shipped in a lot of four ($16).
Just checked - the price today is $18 for a four-pack shipped (but don't know the year).....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-Lot-4-pcs-USSR/253755135827?hash=item3b14fc1753:g:gZYAAOSwNURbSvCE&_sacat=0&_nkw=6n23p&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR6.TRC1.A0.H0.X6n23p.TRS0.TSS0


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Having fulfilled my childhood fantasies, and being prompted by heat expansion clicks from my non-soldered wires in the 9pin CK6832 adapter, I took out this tube. Realizing that the adapter accommodates 6DJ8 family tubes I plugged in a tube that has a good reputation: the 1974 Voskhod 6N23P.
> 
> The results were, as my grand children say, "gooder." Quite good sounding with a nice even FR and good bass.
> The amp sits on a Standesign equipment rack. If you look at the top right you can see the grill of a 4" PC fan hanging there. The fan is placed so that that it pulls air away from the amp. Glenn tells me that this amp (without ventilation holes!) doesn't get very hot and that the heat is dissipated by the tubes and not through resistors and that it can handle even 10A power tubes without a problem, being on 24/7. After the amp warms up I turn on the fan as a precaution, and it definitively makes the chassis feel cooler.
> ...



I'm case you're looking for anymore tubes get a hold of Auditory Canvas. He buys, tests, and sells many great Russian 6n23ps and 6n3ps. He's a good guy.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Monsterzero said:


> The grain actually migrates. It started in the highs,then I messed around with cables and that cleared up the highs,but then it went into the bass! It was so bad I thought my Atticus were blown,but no,but since the Atticus has such pronounced mid bass it accentuated the issue more than other headphones. So the other night I tore down my entire system,Deox'd dirty plugs,connects,pins. That really helped open up the staging and detail,but now the grain is in the mids(I Schiit you not). Im very frustrated.
> 
> Ive tried two diff computers,two different player software,checked that the settings were correct on computer,two different DACs,bought all new cables(RCAs,USB,Coax and power) three diff amps,with and without Schiit Eitr....all the same issues.
> 
> If anyone has any ideas,im open to suggestions.



Yeah, it's a tough battle to win.  If you are anything like me then your own hearing also plays a significant role.  Sometimes my setup sounds wonderful, and sometimes it's a harsh screeching mess and what I've come to believe is that the problem is either attach to or inside of my head.

But there are things like power conditioning I haven't explored yet that may or may not help.  Money is a problem so it's all on hold for now.  I'd like to stop being an apartment renter and actually live in something I own at some point before I die so I can't keep throwing every spare dime into this hobby.


----------



## Monsterzero

Xcalibur255 said:


> But there are things like power conditioning I haven't explored yet that may or may not help.



Odd you should mention that. I have a low$ power conditioner,nothing fancy,but better than your run of the mill Walmart power bar. I just swapped that out and put in one that was even cheaper. Yep,that didnt help at all.

Its odd,on some songs I cannot detect the issue,and then on other songs it makes them unlistenable.


----------



## wazzupi

Monsterzero said:


> Odd you should mention that. I have a low$ power conditioner,nothing fancy,but better than your run of the mill Walmart power bar. I just swapped that out and put in one that was even cheaper. Yep,that didnt help at all.
> 
> Its odd,on some songs I cannot detect the issue,and then on other songs it makes them unlistenable.


You hear it in different headphones too ?


----------



## Monsterzero

Yeah,when it was in the bass  The Atticus were horrid! I messed around with my system as I outlined above,and it went into the mids. So yes,all headphones and speakers.


----------



## wazzupi

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,when it was in the bass  The Atticus were horrid! I messed around with my system as I outlined above,and it went into the mids. So yes,all headphones and speakers.


Damn that's strange..


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jul 27, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> The grain actually migrates. It started in the highs,then I messed around with cables and that cleared up the highs,but then it went into the bass! It was so bad I thought my Atticus were blown,but no,but since the Atticus has such pronounced mid bass it accentuated the issue more than other headphones. So the other night I tore down my entire system,Deox'd dirty plugs,connects,pins. That really helped open up the staging and detail,but now the grain is in the mids(I Schiit you not). Im very frustrated.
> 
> Ive tried two diff computers,two different player software,checked that the settings were correct on computer,two different DACs,bought all new cables(RCAs,USB,Coax and power) three diff amps,with and without Schiit Eitr....all the same issues.
> 
> If anyone has any ideas,im open to suggestions.



I had a similar issue when accessing files via a Raspberry Pi (that was using WiFi) to fetch files that were on an external hard drive that connects to the router.

The Raspberry Pi is a credit card sized Linux computer with one gig of RAM.  My "grain" came after hours of accessing the files.  The Pi was running VLC, a nice media player that is NOT "data base" enabled, you just browse the file system and add individual files or whole directories to the playlist.

The chain is:
Raspberry Pi using WiFi->USB->DAC->Amp->HP

I was convinced that the problem MUST have been the one gig of RAM in the Raspberry Pi...

So I switched to an 8 gig Laptop and same, starts out fine, after a lot of songs played, here comes the stinkin' "grain".

Switched to Laptop and LOCAL external hard drive (took WiFi out of the chain) and the exact same, except it took longer for the grain invasion.

So...looked at the player software, in my case VLC for Linux...and found in the listing of "Audio Devices" to use something that said "Name of my DAC plus all software enhancements".  I selected that one, saved it to the config...(there were about a 3/4 dozen different modes listed for my DAC. I had previously always selected: "Name of my DAC - 2 channel default".

I have enjoyed totally clear, grain free tunes, ever since. Wasn't the Pi wasn't WiFi, it was the "mode" of the device I told the media player software to use.

Cheers...


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Now, if all tubes sound good in the GOTL, the time has come for this:
> MOUSE DANCING WITH ELEPHANTS
> or
> SPIDERMAN COMES TO GOTL, or whatever......
> ...



That is a wild roll, Mordy!!


----------



## attmci

No one play with these?
https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/236-7n7-tubes/


----------



## gibosi

Yes. 

It's been four or five years since I last rolled them, but as best as I can recall, no problems. So it seems that I had better luck than that poster.


----------



## JazzVinyl

My GOTL is appreciating the avant garde artist “John Hassel” (trumpet player/composer) and his album on ECM records:

Last Night the Moon Came, Dropping Its Clothes in the Street. 
Via a pair of 1970 Mullard 6080’s and a 1970’s Harmsn Kardon (Philips) 12AU7.  

This is the combo one if the more popular Bottlehead amps use......

Sounds good.  Love live the 1970’s


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> No one play with these?
> https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/236-7n7-tubes/



I have a half dozen or so 7N7’s...

Like them! Have not used them in a while either but might roll one in again, soon.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Yes.
> 
> It's been four or five years since I last rolled them, but as best as I can recall, no problems. So it seems that I had better luck than that poster.


I don't recall I had the microphonic problem either.




9


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> I don't recall I had the microphonic problem either.



I don't remember microphonic problems with 7N7 either...will try them again soon.  Seems like I thought they were a tad light on bass...?


----------



## whirlwind

I was going to try the 7N7 tubes at one time, but I got side tracked and never did...I doubt that I ever try them now, but you never know I guess.

On a side note, my chiropractor has been telling me for some time now to invest in a good chair and that it would help alot of my lower back pain that I get after sitting at my desk listening to music for long periods of time.
i have pretty much ignored his advice as I did not want to spend a lot of money on a chair.

Since I am getting a little listening room now, my wife talked me into taking his advice. He recommended a  Ekornes Stressless Recliner..I was a bit skeptic, but my wife and I took a trip to a furniture store today in Amish country and we tried quite a few of these out...we were pretty astonished at the comfort level of these chairs and besides getting a gallon of white paint for the listening room, I also secured this.
I must say that I am getting pretty excited.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 28, 2018)

That chair looks darn comfortable if I sat back in that with good music playing I think I would fall asleep.

The 7N7 most all made by Sylvania so that is what they sound like a good Sylvania 6SN7 or 12SN7 if using the 14N7.

Right now listening to the Auteur phones driven with six 6BX7s and 13D1 driver sounds dam good I like this combo.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jul 28, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> I was going to try the 7N7 tubes at one time, but I got side tracked and never did...I doubt that I ever try them now, but you never know I guess.
> 
> On a side note, my chiropractor has been telling me for some time now to invest in a good chair and that it would help alot of my lower back pain that I get after sitting at my desk listening to music for long periods of time.
> i have pretty much ignored his advice as I did not want to spend a lot of money on a chair.
> ...



Hello Joe....

I have been an Ekornes Stressless aficionado for number of years.  It is my Full Sized Sennheiser listening chair.   They are indeed fantastic and worth every single penny they cost and as you now know....they ain't cheap.  But will last a lifetime with a little care.  Thinking of getting the Laptop side table attachment for mine.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

whirlwind said:


> I was going to try the 7N7 tubes at one time, but I got side tracked and never did...I doubt that I ever try them now, but you never know I guess.
> 
> On a side note, my chiropractor has been telling me for some time now to invest in a good chair and that it would help alot of my lower back pain that I get after sitting at my desk listening to music for long periods of time.
> i have pretty much ignored his advice as I did not want to spend a lot of money on a chair.
> ...



I love that chair had one that I got used  for my mother in-law but after 30 years the leather failed. I will have spring for one soon .


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Joe....
> 
> I have been an Ekornes Stressless aficionado for number of years.  It is my Full Sized Sennheiser listening chair.   They are indeed fantastic and worth every single penny they cost and as you now know....they ain't cheap.  But will last a lifetime with a little care.  Thinking of getting the Laptop side table attachment for mine.



We sat in 5 different styles this morning, and every one of them was comfort in spades. 
I saw a few of those attachments in the store, the laptop side table did look pretty neat.
What different models have you had ?

I should have taken the chiropractors advise a couple years ago.






FunctionalDoc said:


> I love that chair had one that I got used  for my mother in-law but after 30 years the leather failed. I will have spring for one soon .



Ha.  That is pretty good mileage........I bought mine used also....my wallet could not afford a new one.

I am so looking forward to some late night weekend listening time and being totally relaxed..my pc chair is not to comfortable, as you well know


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> That chair looks darn comfortable if I sat back in that with good music playing I think I would fall asleep.
> 
> The 7N7 most all made by Sylvania so that is what they sound like a good Sylvania 6SN7 or 12SN7 if using the 14N7.
> 
> Right now listening to the Auteur phones driven with six 6BX7s and 13D1 driver sounds dam good I like this combo.



Yeah, I bet that sounds wonderful.
What 6BX7 are you using ?


----------



## Monsterzero

Nothing beats a comfy chair!

So today I tore down my entire system....again. Took each component upstairs to my den and integrated it into my den system,piece by piece,trying to replicate the grain in my main system. First I was convinced it was my Eitr. Nope played flawless upstairs. Then took my DAC,same story. Then took my GOTL,again same story. So it was good news as all my gear was working as intended.

Came back downstairs,tore out every inter-connect,every power cable,every speaker cable. Re-connected everything and.....

Grain seems to be gone! Its only been fired up for about an hour,but so far so good. Keeping my fingers crossed that I can finally enjoy music again. This has been,by far,the most frustarting electronics issue Ive ever encountered. I've literally not been sleeping.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Nothing beats a comfy chair!
> 
> So today I tore down my entire system....again. Took each component upstairs to my den and integrated it into my den system,piece by piece,trying to replicate the grain in my main system. First I was convinced it was my Eitr. Nope played flawless upstairs. Then took my DAC,same story. Then took my GOTL,again same story. So it was good news as all my gear was working as intended.
> 
> ...



It can be such a pain to track down problems like this.
Happy for you that all is well as of now.
Sounds as if you can enjoy the music again.


----------



## exdmd

whirlwind said:


> I was going to try the 7N7 tubes at one time, but I got side tracked and never did...I doubt that I ever try them now, but you never know I guess.
> 
> On a side note, my chiropractor has been telling me for some time now to invest in a good chair and that it would help alot of my lower back pain that I get after sitting at my desk listening to music for long periods of time.
> i have pretty much ignored his advice as I did not want to spend a lot of money on a chair.
> ...



Pro-tip: get the leather conditioner Ekornes recommends and use it yearly. I have a twenty year old Stressless that is developing some cracks in the leather because I did not keep the leather properly conditioned. Can't really complain: lasting twenty years attests to the quality even if I neglected the leather.


----------



## whirlwind

exdmd said:


> Pro-tip: get the leather conditioner Ekornes recommends and use it yearly. I have a twenty year old Stressless that is developing some cracks in the leather because I did not keep the leather properly conditioned. Can't really complain: lasting twenty years attests to the quality even if I neglected the leather.



Point taken, I will do as you say.  
Thank you.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, I bet that sounds wonderful.
> What 6BX7 are you using ?



CBS but they are really GE Sounds good and they are quiet.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> We sat in 5 different styles this morning, and every one of them was comfort in spades.
> I saw a few of those attachments in the store, the laptop side table did look pretty neat.
> What different models have you had ?
> 
> ...




Joe...my Ekornes is the "Toro" model...older than the ones they offer now that you looked at. I love the newer ones and think they have this model beat for ultimate comfort. 

Before the Toro, I had a 1970's model with the metal base and it was tremendously comfy, I gave it to a gal at my work for her aging mother, who had severe back pain, the Ekornes Stressless was her one relief, but she could not afford one....so....


----------



## Althalus

whirlwind said:


> I was going to try the 7N7 tubes at one time, but I got side tracked and never did...I doubt that I ever try them now, but you never know I guess.
> 
> On a side note, my chiropractor has been telling me for some time now to invest in a good chair and that it would help alot of my lower back pain that I get after sitting at my desk listening to music for long periods of time.
> i have pretty much ignored his advice as I did not want to spend a lot of money on a chair.
> ...



Hi Whirlwind ,
I can only agree with the other comments.
They do make great chairs, and make sure you feed the leather to make it last longer. 
Needless to say,  I own one too. 
For people who don't know it, test the chair before you buy, they have many models and they come in s/m/l sizes. I noticed that I didn't like sitting in a same model chair that had a wrong size for me. And some models are more comfortable than others (person dependend). 

And now back to tubes.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 29, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> CBS but they are really GE Sounds good and they are quiet.



I have a set of GE 6BX7, I believe mine are labeled Westinghouse.
GE 6BL7GT
 RCA 6BX7 & 6BL7GTA
Tung Sol 6BX7 {Thanks Ken}
I have four Sylvania 6BL7 flat plates, I need to get a couple more
Look like this








Althalus said:


> Hi Whirlwind ,
> I can only agree with the other comments.
> They do make great chairs, and make sure you feed the leather to make it last longer.
> Needless to say,  I own one too.
> ...



Good point about the sizes...small was right for my wife and medium was right for me.
I sat in a large and reclined it back and laid the headrest back..my body was not quite wide enough and my arms did not naturally fit the arm rest.
I will probably grow into one of these


----------



## mordy (Jul 29, 2018)

error


----------



## mordy

Strolling down tube rolling lane - came across a tube that I labelled as good sounding when I tried it in the past:





I think it belongs in the 6DJ8 family of dual triodes. It also goes under the designation 6BZ8 and X155 and is similar to ECC180.
Must be less known since there are at least 20 listings for $10 shipped and under. 
This tube shines in the GOTL and sounds just as good as the 6N23P but slightly different. Tried the Sylvania 6BC8 - a little bright ; Tung Sol X155 more bright; then put in a GE 6BC8 - sounds excellent and as clear as this tube looks, with great bass.




Does anybody have experience with the 6BC8, 6BZ8 or X155 tubes?


----------



## mordy (Jul 29, 2018)

erorr


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Strolling down tube rolling lane - came across a tube that I labelled as good sounding when I tried it in the past:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This tube is a VHF amplifier for use in TV tuners didn't know it would sound good as a audio amplifier.
Good for over 200mhz.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Monsterzero said:


> Nothing beats a comfy chair!
> 
> So today I tore down my entire system....again. Took each component upstairs to my den and integrated it into my den system,piece by piece,trying to replicate the grain in my main system. First I was convinced it was my Eitr. Nope played flawless upstairs. Then took my DAC,same story. Then took my GOTL,again same story. So it was good news as all my gear was working as intended.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear you are on the right track now.  Some people advocate unplugging every single cable once a year, often to clean with something like Deoxit Pro Gold.  These connections must have electrical interactions that affect resistance and capacitance of the signal somehow.

Weirdly I often experience the opposite.  Whenever I "upset" my setup by changing something it always sound bad to me for a while until it re-settles.  The exception being when I had a bad interconnect going to the 45.  That basically ruined a year's worth of listening.  I don't know how it took me that long to finally suspect that cable.


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> I was going to try the 7N7 tubes at one time, but I got side tracked and never did...I doubt that I ever try them now, but you never know I guess.
> 
> On a side note, my chiropractor has been telling me for some time now to invest in a good chair and that it would help alot of my lower back pain that I get after sitting at my desk listening to music for long periods of time.
> i have pretty much ignored his advice as I did not want to spend a lot of money on a chair.
> ...


Hope it treats your back well.

I've literally given up trying to find chairs that don't make me hurt.  For at least 10 years now no chair has been comfortable for me, regardless of size or shape.  What's worse I bought a new car last December and the seat in it is the most painful chair to sit in I have ever encountered in my life.  Nothing more satisfying than making payments on something that makes me miserable.  It didn't bother me until the 2nd month I had it, didn't show up on the test drive.  But now it makes my hip bones throb in pain within seconds of sitting down.


----------



## Monsterzero

Xcalibur255 said:


> Glad to hear you are on the right track now.  Some people advocate unplugging every single cable once a year, often to clean with something like Deoxit Pro Gold.  These connections must have electrical interactions that affect resistance and capacitance of the signal somehow.
> 
> Weirdly I often experience the opposite.  Whenever I "upset" my setup by changing something it always sound bad to me for a while until it re-settles.  The exception being when I had a bad interconnect going to the 45.  That basically ruined a year's worth of listening.  I don't know how it took me that long to finally suspect that cable.



I had previously used Deoxit(non Gold version,though I have that too) and it didnt help. I dunno what was the culprit,but it all sounds good now,finally!
Yeah when using Deoxit my system seems to lose bass and get bright and tinny sounding for a cpl days before,as you said,it settles back down.


----------



## leftside

Looks like a popular type of chair!


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> Hope it treats your back well.
> 
> I've literally given up trying to find chairs that don't make me hurt.  For at least 10 years now no chair has been comfortable for me, regardless of size or shape.  What's worse I bought a new car last December and the seat in it is the most painful chair to sit in I have ever encountered in my life.  Nothing more satisfying than making payments on something that makes me miserable.  It didn't bother me until the 2nd month I had it, didn't show up on the test drive.  But now it makes my hip bones throb in pain within seconds of sitting down.


Have you tried an external car seat such as this?
https://www.amazon.com/Everlasting-Comfort-Orthopedic-Sciatica-Tailbone/dp/B01EBDV9BU/


----------



## felix3650

leftside said:


> Looks like a popular type of chair!



Wow! That looks very comfy. I'll have to dig something like that too from my local furniture store. My TMJ could benefit from such a relaxed posture during music listening and movie watching..


----------



## leftside

Also try Craigslist


----------



## Xcalibur255

leftside said:


> Have you tried an external car seat such as this?
> https://www.amazon.com/Everlasting-Comfort-Orthopedic-Sciatica-Tailbone/dp/B01EBDV9BU/


They change the location of the seatback lumbar in a bad way (due to the added seat bottom height), so it just moves the problem around.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Strolling down tube rolling lane - came across a tube that I labelled as good sounding when I tried it in the past:
> 
> I think it belongs in the 6DJ8 family of dual triodes. It also goes under the designation 6BZ8 and X155 and is similar to ECC180.
> Must be less known since there are at least 20 listings for $10 shipped and under.
> This tube shines in the GOTL and sounds just as good as the 6N23P but slightly different. Tried the Sylvania 6BC8 - a little bright ; Tung Sol X155 more bright; then put in a GE 6BC8 - sounds excellent and as clear as this tube looks, with great bass.



Hello Mordy...

I am interested in the report on your GEC 6080's and how they sound in your GOTL....


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Mordy...
> 
> I am interested in the report on your GEC 6080's and how they sound in your GOTL....


Waiting for permission from the bank manager to unlock the vault with the GEC 6AS7/6080 and C3gS.
Just kidding, all I have to do is to take off the rubber band around my shoe box storage.....


----------



## mordy

Is this it?
First impression is the unique quality of the GEC 6AS7 tubes of a special energy and vividness. Very punchy bass, maybe too much impact. Extremely detailed and clear presentation. Everything sounds very good with a touch of brightness, probably from the C3g tubes. The background information is exquisite.

Second impression, and I would never have thought that I would ever say such a thing!

Given a very good recording, there is too much information - I am being bombarded with musical clues and details and although the presentation is fantastic. it is not relaxing at all. Like somebody is being cross examined and  peppered with questions....It is one thing to hear the proverbial new things in old recordings compared to them being thrown at you at a rapid pace.
Analytical vs musical; laser picture vs French impressionism. 
This wasn't expected - need more time to digest it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Put in the 1633 instead of the C3g


----------



## JazzVinyl

I say:  dump the 6AS7's behind the 6080's...

Then try your 6N23P as the driver...


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Put in the 1633 instead of the C3g


Thanks - will give it a try.
Meanwhile I substituted a TS ladder plate 6F8G for the C3g, and that combination was easier to listen to, but not it; something still bothers me.
Pulled out the GEC 6AS7 and substituted with a pair of 7236 together with the GEC 6080 - too bright.
Then just the 6080 and the TS - OK, but not there yet.
Need a break.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
Will try that too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mordy at the helm...

*STR*:
*S*erious *T*ube *R*ollin' is upon us, y'all...everyone needs to buckle up  

.


----------



## mordy

Was going to try the 1633 first but didn't remember where I put it (but found it now-when I organize things I can't find anything lol), so tried JV's recipe 0.31 of Russian spice and 5 drams of British fire.
The 6N23P and GEC 6080 sound excellent together - a great combination that just sounds right. Sweet, musical, with great timbre and plenty of detail. Easy to listen to and relaxing.
Thanks JV.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Was going to try the 1633 first but didn't remember where I put it (but found it now-when I organize things I can't find anything lol), so tried JV's recipe 0.31 of Russian spice and 5 drams of British fire.
> The 6N23P and GEC 6080 sound excellent together - a great combination that just sounds right. Sweet, musical, with great timbre and plenty of detail. Easy to listen to and relaxing.
> Thanks JV.



Very good description of the sound, Mordy!!

I am really liking the 12AU7's and Mullard (Philips made?) 6080's, too...


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> ...Mullard (Philips made?) 6080's....



All that I have seen were manufactured by Mullard in their Mitcham factory.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> All that I have seen were manufactured by Mullard in their Mitcham factory.



Ah, Good!  I am glad I have that wrong


----------



## mordy

I have an alphabet soup of 12xx7 - AU, AT, AZ and BH, but I am waiting for the adapter to arrive on a slow boat from China. (AT too, but Glenn said that that one is a no-no.)
Have the Mullards 6080. 
Hope to try the 1633 tomorrow with the GECs.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Very nice, Mordy.  Have fun rolling the 12 volt 9 pin tubes.  What other amp gives you the ability to run a driver in 6/12/25 volts with the simple flick of a switch?  Genius, I tell you!!

After a couple of weeks of rolling, I am back to what I think is perfection in Sophie...

She has her 6 pack of 6BL7's and her "by far" favorite driver...an early 40's Sylvania 6SN7W.

This provides tremendous space/air/details and clarity (a special emphasis on space/air/separation between instruments) that is just not quite as good with any other tube combination I tried.

Bottom end thunder, and a richly detailed, and clarified sparkle up top....

What a great amp, she is.   Thanks to Glenn!


----------



## mordy

Meanwhile I am running on two or four cylinders. When I tried 6 cyls it was difficult to get the 6BL7 tubes to behave together, no doubt because I picked them off the bargain sites a couple of years ago and they may be poorly matched.
But I have a whole bunch of 6BL7 tubes, so I should be able to pick six tubes that work well together. Re the BX tubes I have just 7 that work.
But one thing at a time.....
It appears to me that the amp is more quiet now compared to when I got it. I am still getting used to it - totally different than my previous Chinese/Polish experiences......


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have lots and lots of 6BL7's as well.  And also had a few that didn't play well together, do have mine sorted. 
And had some BX's that didn't play well too.  Think I also have 7, maybe 8 BX's now that behave. 

I continue to think with my cans, the 6BL7's are preferred.  I am really tempted now to buy SENN HD800's. 

Hear ya loud and clear on all of your expirences, Mordy. I had the same, can relate.

You will have a blast rolling.  Will be fun to see where your preferences land.  I am squarely settled on mine.

Cheers!!


----------



## lukeap69

@mordy what cans have you been pairing your GOTL with? Sorry if you have mentioned it before. I do not have the luxury to roll drivers other than c3g, however with my HD800SD and HD650, I could not hear the tube noise with my 6BL7s and 6BX7s. I have one 5998 which is a bit noisy, but my other 4 are relatively quiet. My pair of GEC 6AS7 though are excellent and very musical. I don't find them analytical at all.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Very nice, Mordy.  Have fun rolling the 12 volt 9 pin tubes.  What other amp gives you the ability to run a driver in 6/12/25 volts with the simple flick of a switch?  Genius, I tell you!!
> 
> After a couple of weeks of rolling, I am back to what I think is perfection in Sophie...
> 
> ...



To me the beat sound is six X 6BX7 and a 13D1 driver.
This is with the Auteur and HD-800s


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> To me the beat sound is six X 6BX7 and a 13D1 driver.
> This is with the Auteur and HD-800s



Yes everyone seems to love the BX's but here the BL's win with my older Sennheiser cans.  
I am really tempted to go for the HD800. 
You like 13D1 over Syl 6SN7W...that is really saying something.  Here the 6SN7W seems way out in front.


----------



## mordy

lukeap69 said:


> @mordy what cans have you been pairing your GOTL with? Sorry if you have mentioned it before. I do not have the luxury to roll drivers other than c3g, however with my HD800SD and HD650, I could not hear the tube noise with my 6BL7s and 6BX7s. I have one 5998 which is a bit noisy, but my other 4 are relatively quiet. My pair of GEC 6AS7 though are excellent and very musical. I don't find them analytical at all.


Hi l69,
Up til now I have mainly listened through speakers, but lately I am starting to use headphones more. I have the Massdrop HD650 and the Beyerdynamic T1 Gen 1 as well a couple of inexpensive "travelling" headphones: a pair of Senn HD201 and a Nakamichi noise suppressing set. Previously I liked the HD650, but with the GOTL the T1 sounds better.
My listening room is a snakepit of wires and ground loops and I usually get some kinds of noise but those noises really don't intrude on my listening pleasure at practical volume levels. Some people are lucky that they don't have much electrical noise in their settings; others have big problems, even varying from room to room.
My old amps were nowhere near as sensitive as the GOTL, and I am noticing microphonics in some tubes that previously were quiet.
The GEC 6AS7 and 6080 are wonderful tubes and not at all analytical. However, using both the GEC pairs I have, paired with C3gS in my set up, they accentuated the analytical qualities of the C3g to the point of distraction in my subjective evaluation. YMMV.

Hi 2359glenn,
This morning I tried the 1633 instead of the C3g with the aforementioned four GEC power tubes. The sound is much better but have to listen more to firm up my preliminary impressions. 
Don't know how to explain what I am hearing that bothers me:
In a traditional jazz band normally the horns are in the front, and the rhythm section in the back. With these four GECs together it accentuates the rhythm section and brings it up more to the front and puts the horn section more to the back. Strange....
Four GECs may be too much of a good thing - the sweetness of a single pair of GECs is missing.
Next up will be 6BX6/6BL7 + whatever.....


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Aug 1, 2018)

mordy said:


> Thanks - will give it a try.
> Meanwhile I substituted a TS ladder plate 6F8G for the C3g, and that combination was easier to listen to, but not it; something still bothers me.
> Pulled out the GEC 6AS7 and substituted with a pair of 7236 together with the GEC 6080 - too bright.
> Then just the 6080 and the TS - OK, but not there yet.
> Need a break.



The 7236 is the brightest of all the tubes in this family.  Unless you need to wake up a very dark sounding headphone they usually upset the tonal balance too much.

Try running just the GEC 6AS7G by themselves without the 6080s too.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi l69,
> Up til now I have mainly listened through speakers, but lately I am starting to use headphones more. I have the Massdrop HD650 and the Beyerdynamic T1 Gen 1 as well a couple of inexpensive "travelling" headphones: a pair of Senn HD201 and a Nakamichi noise suppressing set. Previously I liked the HD650, but with the GOTL the T1 sounds better.
> My listening room is a snakepit of wires and ground loops and I usually get some kinds of noise but those noises really don't intrude on my listening pleasure at practical volume levels. Some people are lucky that they don't have much electrical noise in their settings; others have big problems, even varying from room to room.
> My old amps were nowhere near as sensitive as the GOTL, and I am noticing microphonics in some tubes that previously were quiet.
> ...



I was going to say why 2 pairs of GEC 6AS7? unless you have hard to drive phones like planners just use one pair.
One pair might cure the problem. Why burn 2 sets of these ridiculously expensive tubes at the same time?


----------



## wazzupi

Oh my god no way am i listening to an hd800 these don't sound like hd800s they have soul, they have body like what is happening I haven't even begun to roll tubes ! Thank you Glenn !!! More to come later !!


----------



## mordy

HiX255 and 2359glenn,
As you know all tubes divide into two groups: GEC and "GEC savers." I only have one pair each of the 6080 (actually three tubes) and one pair of the 6AS7. The GEC 6AS7 are the most expensive tubes I have (although Stavros gave me a good price).
After seeing the current ridiculous prices for C3g and GEC tubes I decided for fun to just put them all together, and as you know, it resulted in auditory overload.
I always feel guilty using the GEC 6AS7, hence using other tubes, saving them
 lol.

Now I am trying the 6 x 6BL7. The closest I have to a Sylvania 6SN7W is a Syl 6SN7WGT. Tried this now, but I am getting frustrated. First one of the 6BL7 tubes was bad and put out a subsonic thumping, and I had to find which one. I knew that it was one channel, so I had 33% of finding it. I think I nailed it, exchanged it, but now I have a channel imbalance.
How do you find out which tube of 7 is causing the channel imbalance? I feel like I am in a wrestling match with my amp......


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> Oh my god no way am i listening to an hd800 these don't sound like hd800s they have soul, they have body like what is happening I haven't even begun to roll tubes ! Thank you Glenn !!! More to come later !!


Congrats wazzupi and welcome to the club!


----------



## 2359glenn

wazzupi said:


> Oh my god no way am i listening to an hd800 these don't sound like hd800s they have soul, they have body like what is happening I haven't even begun to roll tubes ! Thank you Glenn !!! More to come later !!



The HD800s like this amp especially if you are running six 6BX7 driven by a 13D1. They sound good with almost any tubes
The Auteur's like this amp too with that same combo of tubes.  The best thing these tubes are cheap.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> HiX255 and 2359glenn,
> As you know all tubes divide into two groups: GEC and "GEC savers." I only have one pair each of the 6080 (actually three tubes) and one pair of the 6AS7. The GEC 6AS7 are the most expensive tubes I have (although Stavros gave me a good price).
> After seeing the current ridiculous prices for C3g and GEC tubes I decided for fun to just put them all together, and as you know, it resulted in auditory overload.
> I always feel guilty using the GEC 6AS7, hence using other tubes, saving them
> ...



Cut it down to four 6BL7s then it will be easier to find a bad one.
You got to watch buying used 6BL7/6BX7s these tubes were used in the vertical output of TVs and were Beaton to death.
In a brutal circuit running at full power at 60Hz sawtooth wave continually.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Cut it down to four 6BL7s then it will be easier to find a bad one.
> You got to watch buying used 6BL7/6BX7s these tubes were used in the vertical output of TVs and were Beaton to death.
> In a brutal circuit running at full power at 60Hz sawtooth wave continually.


That's right. And even after being abused they can still test well. Trial and error getting 4 or 6 that are quiet. First step is to try and find matching construction. I find they play better together like that - but as I've mentioned before - there are lot's of different constructions of these tubes.

Wazzupi has his amp. We all now move up the list


----------



## Phantaminum

wazzupi said:


> Oh my god no way am i listening to an hd800 these don't sound like hd800s they have soul, they have body like what is happening I haven't even begun to roll tubes ! Thank you Glenn !!! More to come later !!



Congrats man! Can't wait for mine to be made. Give us some thoughts on pairing with the Auteurs.


----------



## felix3650

@wazzupi 
Beautiful!! Enjoy it. I too am curious for the Auteur 

@2359glenn 
Can the chassis be made slightly smaller if one doesn't go for the C3G sockets? Also a black frontal plate would look really slik!


----------



## whirlwind

wazzupi said:


> Oh my god no way am i listening to an hd800 these don't sound like hd800s they have soul, they have body like what is happening I haven't even begun to roll tubes ! Thank you Glenn !!! More to come later !!



Congrats...good times ahead


----------



## 2359glenn

felix3650 said:


> @wazzupi
> Beautiful!! Enjoy it. I too am curious for the Auteur
> 
> @2359glenn
> Can the chassis be made slightly smaller if one doesn't go for the C3G sockets? Also a black frontal plate would look really slik!



Not really unless you want to go to the basic model with just 2 output tube sockets


----------



## Althalus (Aug 1, 2018)

wazzupi said:


>


Congrats Wazzupi, nice tubecollection in front of a good looking amp. Enjoy.
And as you noticed, with you of the list , Phantaminum, leftside and me are are getting more restless.

@2359glenn , a question for you. Because I have ordered an amp with rectifier and plugin hexfred. Where is room for the 3dg4 tube? It looks pretty full.


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 1, 2018)

Althalus said:


> Congrats Wazzupi, nice tubecollection in front of a good looking amp. Enjoy.
> And as you noticed, with you of the list , Phantaminum, leftside and me are are getting more restless.
> 
> @2359glenn , a question for you. Because I have ordered an amp with rectifier and plugin hexfred. Where is room for the 3dg4 tube? It looks pretty full.








Here it is with the rectifier socket
I am good at putting 100lbs of crap in a 10lb bag


----------



## mordy

Hi 2359glenn,
Thanks to your help a Brimar 13D1 arrived now - much appreciated.
Got together my 6BX7 tubes and was even able to identify the source for the channel imbalance - a loose socket saver.
With Captain 13D1 at the helm, and the platoon of 6BX7 soldiers doing their best, the GOTL positively sings! Man, this is the best sound yet!
Thanks Glenn!


----------



## mordy (Aug 1, 2018)

Don't worry; all the tubes are made by GE, no matter if it says RCA, Philco(Sylvania) or Westinghouse.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Don't worry; all the tubes are made by GE, no matter if it says RCA, Philco(Sylvania) or Westinghouse.



Nice did you tame the 6BL7s?
How does it sound?


----------



## Althalus

2359glenn said:


> Here it is with the rectifier socket
> I am good at putting 100lbs of crap in a 10lb bag



Thanks Glenn,


----------



## mordy (Aug 1, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Nice did you tame the 6BL7s?
> How does it sound?


Now when I know why I had the channel imbalance I can go back to the 6BL7 tubes. However, it sounds so nice that I can't tear myself away from the 13D1/6x6BX7 at the moment. Sweet, tons of detail and non-fatiguing with just the right amount of bass and treble.
6BL7 has to wait until tomorrow....
Did you say that the 13D1 sounds better than the B36?


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> HiX255 and 2359glenn,
> As you know all tubes divide into two groups: GEC and "GEC savers." I only have one pair each of the 6080 (actually three tubes) and one pair of the 6AS7. The GEC 6AS7 are the most expensive tubes I have (although Stavros gave me a good price).
> After seeing the current ridiculous prices for C3g and GEC tubes I decided for fun to just put them all together, and as you know, it resulted in auditory overload.
> I always feel guilty using the GEC 6AS7, hence using other tubes, saving them
> ...



Don't ever feel guilty trying out things you are curious about.  I'm just suggesting that running the GEC 6AS7G pair by themselves in the output stage might sound better to you than what you already tried (having another set of tubes in front of them).  You might want to just leave the GEC in there for a while.

I used to do this too.  "Save" my best tubes for later.  Forget that man.  Life is short.  You paid for those tubes, you should get some enjoyment out of them.


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 1, 2018)

mordy said:


> Now when I know why I had the channel imbalance I can go back to the 6BL7 tubes. However, it sounds so nice that I can't tear myself away from the 13D1/6x6BX7 at the moment. Sweet, tons of detail and non-fatiguing with just the right amount of bass and treble.
> 6BL7 has to wait until tomorrow....
> Did you say that the 13D1 sounds better than the B36?





mordy said:


> Now when I know why I had the channel imbalance I can go back to the 6BL7 tubes. However, it sounds so nice that I can't tear myself away from the 13D1/6x6BX7 at the moment. Sweet, tons of detail and non-fatiguing with just the right amount of bass and treble.
> 6BL7 has to wait until tomorrow....
> Did you say that the 13D1 sounds better than the B36?


 
The 13D1 sounds about the same as the B36 and B65 but for only $7.50 cheep because no other amps can use a 25SN7.
Truly a great tube.
I originally made the amp to only use the 13D1 and 1633 but had complaints that they couldn't use 6SN7s why would you want to?
13D1 and the 6BX7 is the best combo for this amp unless you are driving high impedance phones. 6AS7 or better yet 6336 for low impedance planners.


----------



## wazzupi

2359glenn said:


> The HD800s like this amp especially if you are running six 6BX7 driven by a 13D1. They sound good with almost any tubes
> The Auteur's like this amp too with that same combo of tubes.  The best thing these tubes are cheap.


I am, i haven't tube rolled yet and it sounds great ! I probably will later tonight or this weekend. I think the tubes are burning in because throughout the day im hearing noise( a variety of different noises but they literally last for a few minutes and go away) but i think that's normal after a period of time.


----------



## 2359glenn

wazzupi said:


> I am, i haven't tube rolled yet and it sounds great ! I probably will later tonight or this weekend. I think the tubes are burning in because throughout the day im hearing noise( a variety of different noises but they literally last for a few minutes and go away) but i think that's normal after a period of time.



Probably the 6BX7s they been asleep for 60 years let them burn in.


----------



## Althalus

2359glenn said:


> The 13D1 sounds about the same as the B36 and B65 but for only $7.50 cheep because no other amps can use a 25SN7.
> Truly a great tube.
> I originally made the amp to only use the 13D1 and 1633



Good to know , because I don't find any 13d1/cv423 /25sn7 but there are many B36 tubes at this moment .


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> The 13D1 sounds about the same as the B36 and B65 but for only $7.50 cheep because no other amps can use a 25SN7.
> Truly a great tube.
> I originally made the amp to only use the 13D1 and 1633 but had complaints that they couldn't use 6SN7s why would you want to?
> 13D1 and the 6BX7 is the best combo for this amp unless you are driving high impedance phones. 6AS7 or better yet 6336 for low impedance planners.



Well wait a second now...as a big fan of the 1940's 6SN7W...I think I can understand why customers wanted to be able to run that tube.  For me, the Syl 6SN7W exceeds every other driver I have tried in the GOTL..

I believe you when you say 13D1 and 6BX7 is best in this amp.  But the 13D1 has some very large shoes to fill, if it will de-throne  the 6SN7W for me and my Sennheiser cans.

BTW, I find the 1633 too "thin" on my cans (always felt the same way about the 6SN7 Gray Glass RCA's too),  can't seem to enjoy them.  Hope the 13D1 is a 'deeper and darker' tube.


----------



## gibosi

For those who enjoy rolling 9-pin miniatures, the ECC804, which can also be found labeled as 6/30L2, 6GA8 and B729, is a nice tube. To the best of my  knowledge, it was manufactured only by British Mazda and GEC, and personally, I like the Mazda best. To my ears, the Mazda has a sonic signature quite close to the 13D1. And in fact, I would say that both the 13D1 and the ECC804 are improved versions of the black-glass Brimar 6SN7GTY.



Per @Seamaster " ECC804 are fast tube loaded with bass, they are semi warm, more liquid than 12au7 type."

It shares the same pinout as the 6DJ8 and 6CG7, so some of you might already have a suitable adapter.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> For those who enjoy rolling 9-pin miniatures, the ECC804, which can also be found labeled as 6/30L2, 6GA8 and B729, is a nice tube. To the best of my  knowledge, it was manufactured only by British Mazda and GEC, and personally, I like the Mazda best. To my ears, the Mazda has a sonic signature quite close to the 13D1. And in fact, I would say that both the 13D1 and the ECC804 are improved versions of the black-glass Brimar 6SN7GTY.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sounds good. g...

Have one (Mazda) inbound, will file a report when I hear it.

Thx...


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 1, 2018)

Mordy...

Sounds good on the brimar 13D1...can't wait to hear it for myself


----------



## gibosi

Mordy asked to take a look at this listing for an ECC804:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC804-International-Vacuum-Tube-NOS-NIB-Tested-Strong-LAST-29/172958012834

It doesn't look like any ECC804 I have seen. And specifically, it doesn't look like either the GEC or the Mazda. So I have no idea who manufactured that tube. And for example, if the ECC804 was manufactured by Japanese maker, I am not aware of it...

On the other hand, it's cheap. So I hope someone tries it.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Well wait a second now...as a big fan of the 1940's 6SN7W...I think I can understand why customers wanted to be able to run that tube.  For me, the Syl 6SN7W exceeds every other driver I have tried in the GOTL..
> 
> I believe you when you say 13D1 and 6BX7 is best in this amp.  But the 13D1 has some very large shoes to fill, if it will de-throne  the 6SN7W for me and my Sennheiser cans.
> 
> BTW, I find the 1633 too "thin" on my cans (always felt the same way about the 6SN7 Gray Glass RCA's too),  can't seem to enjoy them.  Hope the 13D1 is a 'deeper and darker' tube.



To me the 13D1 , B36 , and B65 are the best sounding SN7 types. Maybe just me and they are quiet too the most important thing.
I would never buy a B65 at those prices no mater how good it sounds.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> Mordy asked to take a look at this listing for an ECC804:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC804-International-Vacuum-Tube-NOS-NIB-Tested-Strong-LAST-29/172958012834
> 
> ...


I get USSR vibes. 6N23P perhaps?


----------



## gibosi

Oskari said:


> I get USSR vibes. 6N23P perhaps?



I just pulled out a 6N23P and it looks very similar, especially the micas. And now that I think about it, I have seen a lot of Russian tubes in Service Master boxes, so a good guess I think.


----------



## 2359glenn

13D1 tubes for sale
https://www.tubedepot.com/products/13d1


----------



## Althalus

2359glenn said:


> 13D1 tubes for sale
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/13d1



Mmm, I don't know  
it says on backorder.
And it says a replacement for for any 13d1, so it can be any 25sn7, or do I misunderstand the tekst.


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 2, 2018)

It will be a 13d1 they don't know it is a 25SN7.
I got some from there you have to order them then they get them from Europe.

Or you can get them from here. They have 90 in stock.
https://www.langrex.co.uk/


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Aug 2, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> It will be a 13d1 they don't know it is a 25SN7.
> I got some from there you have to order them then they get them from Europe.
> 
> Or you can get them from here. They have 90 in stock.
> https://www.langrex.co.uk/



I am looking this up on their site and no listings for 13d1. So what other tube that is the same as this tube Glenn? I plan on getting 6-6BXZ's with this driver tube as option.

I am looking forward to getting my amp hopefully at end of this month.


----------



## 2359glenn

FunctionalDoc said:


> I am looking this up on their site and no listings for 13d1. So what other tube that is the same as this tube Glenn? I plan on getting 6-6BXZ's with this driver tube as option.
> 
> I am looking forward to getting my amp hopefully at end of this month.



Look under stock list they have 90 of them.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

2359glenn said:


> Look under stock list they have 90 of them.


 
I found on the stock list but can't find the price in British pounds?


----------



## 2359glenn

You have to send them a E-Mail


----------



## mordy (Aug 2, 2018)

Hi Doc,
Here are the prices:
13D1 will cost 15 GBP each plus 6 GBP shipping. These are made by Brimar.

If you want tracked shipping this will be 12 GBP


----------



## FunctionalDoc

mordy said:


> Here is a link to a download for a site that will tell you about pinouts for different tubes. You type in the tube designation, and then you click on a tab that tells you about all the tubes that have the same pinout.
> https://en.freedownloadmanager.org/Windows-PC/TDSL-Personal-Edition-FREE.html
> Thanks for the offer - looking forward to try it.
> Question: Are the explosions bad for your ears and/or phones?
> ...



Thanks for the info .


----------



## mordy

FunctionalDoc said:


> Thanks for the info .


Here is another British seller that has the 13D1 used for GBP 9.-
https://web211.secure-secure.co.uk/tube-and-valve-electronics.co.uk/wholesale/product.asp?ID=2026


----------



## wazzupi (Aug 2, 2018)

im trying out the sylvania 6sn7w metal base, wow what a difference it changed the sound signature quite a bit. I want to say micro detail, transients and the neutral sound are the headliners with these tubes I also think the soundstage got wider and deeper over the 13d1. i swear im going to have to roll tubes for difference genres of music because of this amp/ the tubes i own...


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 3, 2018)

wazzupi said:


> im trying out the sylvania 6sn7w metal base, wow what a difference it changed the sound signature quite a bit. I want to say micro detail, transients and the neutral sound are the headliners with these tubes I also think the soundstage got wider and deeper over the 13d1. i swear im going to have to roll tubes for difference genres of music because of this amp/ the tubes i own...



The Sylvania 6SN7W is very special in this amp.  Separates out instruments such that there is space between them.  Lots of space between them!
And yes, lots of micro detail and textures.

An old friend of mine....an early 1940's Vissaux 6N7G also sounds really fantastic in the GOTL. 
Better than anticipated.  It was a bit bass shy in my previous amp, hits deep and solid in Glenn's amp.

Joy, joy!


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Here is another British seller that has the 13D1 used for GBP 9.-
> https://web211.secure-secure.co.uk/tube-and-valve-electronics.co.uk/wholesale/product.asp?ID=2026


Ah Billington Export.... I've spent thousands of $'s shopping there! Got to know Martin quite well. Great company to deal with. Their grade 1 tubes are like most NOS tubes elsewhere. It was actually those guys who sent me my 13D1's as freebies with another order. Purchased a lot of different GEC tubes from those guys.


----------



## wazzupi

JazzVinyl said:


> The Sylvania 6SN7G is very special in this amp.  Separates out instruments such that there is space between them.  Lots of space between them!
> And yes, lots of micro detail and textures.
> 
> An old friend of mine....an early 1940's Vissaux 6N7G also sounds really fantastic in the GOTL.
> ...


ya thats exactly what it is crazy seperation like on the 13d1 is more in my face and i kinda am torn on which vocals i prefer its very close. I feel like the vocals have more texture and grit on the 13d1.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

mordy said:


> Here is another British seller that has the 13D1 used for GBP 9.-
> https://web211.secure-secure.co.uk/tube-and-valve-electronics.co.uk/wholesale/product.asp?ID=2026



I see on this site they have a box says OB and WB and what does this mean and which should I chose ?

A used 13d1 is fine ?  

Thanks Mordy and Leftside for the source at Billington in UK as reliable source of tubes. Leftside if I new your name should I use  your name with Martin at Billington's ? You can PM your name if that is OK . 

Thanks for helping the neophyte to tubes for the Glenn.


----------



## leftside

OB = original box. WB = white box. I'll pm you. I don't think they have any 13D1's in stock right now, but doesn't hurt to ask.


----------



## gibosi

For anyone who has been waiting to score a 5CU4 rectifier:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Raytheon-5...-4325-LOT-OF-THREE-New-Old-Stock/312205974872

The 5CU4 will work in any GOTL configured to run the 3DG4. A good sounding rectifier I think, and quite powerful, 385ma.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> OB = original box. WB = white box. I'll pm you. I don't think they have any 13D1's in stock right now, but doesn't hurt to ask.



On that big amp I am making if you want a tube rectifier you will need 2 in parallel.  2 of these 5CU4 will handle 500ma easily or 2 3DG4s
https://www.ebay.com/itm/312205974872


----------



## Althalus

gibosi said:


> For anyone who has been waiting to score a 5CU4 rectifier:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Raytheon-5...-4325-LOT-OF-THREE-New-Old-Stock/312205974872
> 
> The 5CU4 will work in any GOTL configured to run the 3DG4. A good sounding rectifier I think, and quite powerful, 385ma.



Hi gibosi ,
A question for you,  Forgive me my ignorance with rectifiers, but I thought that 3dg4 is 3V and 5cu4 is 5V. Can you explain to me why all 3dg4 amps can use the 5cu4. I ordered an amp with lundahl transformer and rectifier and plugin hexfred. I thought this combo is only possible with 3dg4 rectifier. Does this means that I can also use the 5cu4?

PS I followed your advice and have some 3dg4's (different brands) incoming.


----------



## mordy

Hi gibosi,
Another question for you: Is this a new production ECC804?
https://brimaruk.com/valves/triodes/brimar-ecc804/
The web site claims that the tube is made in the UK but they don't divulge the manufacturer.


----------



## mordy (Aug 3, 2018)

Hi gibosi,
Another question for you: Is this a new production ECC804?
https://brimaruk.com/valves/triodes/brimar-ecc804/
The web site claims that the tube is made in the UK but they don't divulge the manufacturer.




PS: Indeed, this looks like a new production. A couple of years ago The Great British Valve Project was started, and it appears that these people are trying to refurbish Mullard equipment and make new tubes. There are 14 tubes currently listed for sale:
https://brimaruk.com/shop/
Don't know why I never heard about this before.


----------



## Oskari

It seems that they are trying to start production but aren't there yet.

I assume that the ECC804s are old stock.


----------



## 2359glenn

Althalus said:


> Hi gibosi ,
> A question for you,  Forgive me my ignorance with rectifiers, but I thought that 3dg4 is 3V and 5cu4 is 5V. Can you explain to me why all 3dg4 amps can use the 5cu4. I ordered an amp with lundahl transformer and rectifier and plugin hexfred. I thought this combo is only possible with 3dg4 rectifier. Does this means that I can also use the 5cu4?
> 
> PS I followed your advice and have some 3dg4's (different brands) incoming.




Only my amps can do this 3 volt and 5 volt the tube pinout is different. So i wire the socket so if a 3DG4 is plugged in it gets 3 volts and a 5U4 will get 5  volts.


----------



## wazzupi

Tubes have microphonics ? Catches the vibration of my desk and plays the sound through the headphone type of deal ? The 13d1 seems like it does.


----------



## Althalus

2359glenn said:


> Only my amps can do this 3 volt and 5 volt the tube pinout is different. So i wire the socket so if a 3DG4 is plugged in it gets 3 volts and a 5U4 will get 5 volts.



Thank you Glenn for the explanation. I thought that only the amps with the American transformer could do that. I didn't know that amps with the lundahl transformer could do the same trick. I must have missed it while reading more than 20000 posts in this thread. 

This is usefull in the future but when my amp arrives I will first use it with 3dg4 for some long time.


----------



## mordy

Siblings?










"Each tube is scrupulously tested and only the best get badged with the Brimar thermionics logo. We hope you enjoy our selected products and with each purchase you will be bringing us closer to British valve manufacturing again."
Shuguang Made in China.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Siblings?


Seems that way.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Aug 3, 2018)

If you want to try a new production tube the TJ Full Music 6SN7s are reported to sound very similar to a mouse ear Tung Sol (which I would call fairly high praise) and don't cost a fortune.

These are sold under other brands too, like Northern Electric, Sophia, etc. but they are all from* Tianjin.
*
Heck I even saw a David Shaw Signature Edition version being sold with some of the Icon Audio amps.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> Another question for you: Is this a new production ECC804?
> https://brimaruk.com/valves/triodes/brimar-ecc804/
> The web site claims that the tube is made in the UK but they don't divulge the manufacturer.
> ...



I certainly don't know for sure if it is new production, but I can say the shape of the bottle, especially the base, is slightly different than the old-stock GEC and Mazda variants. That said, there is so little demand for this tube that I can't imagine that it would be profitable to establish a new assembly line to manufacture it. Or perhaps they were able to procure an old assembly line from GEC or Mazda? But even then, there is little to no demand for this tube.....


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> I certainly don't know for sure if it is new production, but I can say the shape of the bottle, especially the base, is slightly different than the old-stock GEC and Mazda variants. That said, there is so little demand for this tube that I can't imagine that it would be profitable to establish a new assembly line to manufacture it. Or perhaps they were able to procure an old assembly line from GEC or Mazda? But even then, there is little to no demand for this tube.....


I agree that making new ECC804s would be kind of pointless. I also agree that the shape of the bottle is kind of unusual. But what else could it be? There are Brimar tubes with rather uncommon bottle shapes after all.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Oh my god no way am i listening to an hd800 these don't sound like hd800s they have soul, they have body like what is happening I haven't even begun to roll tubes ! Thank you Glenn !!! More to come later !!



Congrats wazzupi. After investing in all those tubes I hope you like it. 

Well there is no need to hope. I know you will like it.


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats mordy on the GOTL. Can’t find your first impression but I know you will have a ball of a time.


----------



## gibosi

Oskari said:


> I agree that making new ECC804s would be kind of pointless. I also agree that the shape of the bottle is kind of unusual. But what else could it be? There are Brimar tubes with rather uncommon bottle shapes after all.



Yeah, I am inclined to think that that Brimar is in fact old stock. While the picture isn't all that good, from what I can see, the plates and micas appear to closely resemble  the GEC and Mazda I have. But given that very flat base, almost Innoval-like, it may well be that it was manufactured later than mine. Like you say, what else could it be? lol


----------



## whirlwind

Some 80 Globe tube love.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Some 80 Globe tube love.



Nice looking tube!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Nice looking tube!




Thanks, looks great and sounds great...Santa sent it to me this past Christmas.

My chair arrived Friday after I got off work.  I put it together and drug it to my computer desk to give it a good test drive. 
I can't wait to get my little room finished...we did get it painted last weekend and have bought some materials to make a couple of tables.


----------



## 2359glenn

Looks comfortable if I sat in that after work I would be asleep in 10 minuets.
IT looks great to setback with the headphones on listening to music wow!


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
You are right - having a lot of fun with the new GOTL amp. However, it is such a different experience from what I am used to, and we are still getting acquainted.
At first I had some trouble getting it to run cleanly on all six cylinders. Tracked it down to one bad tube, and then to one bad socket saver, but finally sorted it out (nothing wrong with the amp).
Today I went exploring my box of 6SL7 tubes - found all kinds of Tung Sol, Sylvania and National Union tubes. Although the multiplification factor is much higher than the 6SN7 they seem to work fine with 6x6BX7.
Discovered a tube I did not know I had, a Crosley 6SL7GT:



Here is a photograph from my new desktop photo studio. The tube holder is a roll of Scotch tape, the background is a check book cover and the back of a shipping label.
As  you can see this tube has round plates and was manufactured by Sylvania (EIA code 312) and was manufactured the 39th week (September) of 1960 (I don't think it is 1950).
Anyhow, the tube rolling possibilities with the GOTL are dizzying. ATM I am trying a Sylvania 12SN7GT that I just bought under the Westinghouse label. Somehow I also found the same tube made by Westinghouse in my stash - curious to see how it compares.
In general it is much more difficult to hear the differences between different tubes with 
the GOTL - just about everything sounds good. 
But I notice now that the Sylvania 12SN7 sounds better than the Sylvania 6SL7 I tried...


----------



## UntilThen

Enjoy exploring the potentials of your new amp Mordy.

I didn’t think I would stop rolling tubes. There are more tubes to experiment but stop I did. Still listen to my headphone setup regularly but I don’t change the tubes anymore. I have so many lovely drivers but I am just content to use Tung Sol 12SN7gt and 6 x GE 6bx7gt.

That’s a lovely chair Whirlwind. You want that to watch TV. 

Anyhoo I am on holidays in Singapore now and leaves for Taiwan on Wed. Cheers and enjoy your music.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Thanks, looks great and sounds great...Santa sent it to me this past Christmas.
> 
> My chair arrived Friday after I got off work.  I put it together and drug it to my computer desk to give it a good test drive.
> I can't wait to get my little room finished...we did get it painted last weekend and have bought some materials to make a couple of tables.



Congrats on your Ekornes Stressless Recliner, Joe...I am sure it will serve you well for decades to come.  I love mine to bits


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Enjoy exploring the potentials of your new amp Mordy.
> 
> I didn’t think I would stop rolling tubes. There are more tubes to experiment but stop I did. Still listen to my headphone setup regularly but I don’t change the tubes anymore. I have so many lovely drivers but I am just content to use Tung Sol 12SN7gt and 6 x GE 6bx7gt.



6 Pack 6 BL (or BX) 7's and Syl 6SN7W or a Sylvania or Philips 12AU7 here...

Think Mordy is right about the GOTL, makes everything sound good.  A few drivers will stand out above the rest of the pack....just leave 'em in,  and enjoy the music


----------



## gibosi

I still roll... There are just too many great combinations.

For the time being, a wonderful European combination: GEC U18/20, Lorenz C3g and Fivre 6BX7.  But it occurs to me that maybe if I can stop buying tubes for awhile I could join the Ekornes Stressless Recliner club. lol


----------



## wazzupi

im getting constant hum/noises on my right ear only, I tried swapping the right side tubes and the driver but im still getting it, does it matter if its left or right or should i check all the tubes ?


----------



## leftside

wazzupi said:


> im getting constant hum/noises on my right ear only, I tried swapping the right side tubes and the driver but im still getting it, does it matter if its left or right or should i check all the tubes ?


Check with Glenn. You'll need to determine if the right side of the amp (when facing the amp) impacts the right side of your headphones (when listening). I'd swap all tubes anyway. And then I'd swap them again a third time.


----------



## 2359glenn

wazzupi said:


> im getting constant hum/noises on my right ear only, I tried swapping the right side tubes and the driver but im still getting it, does it matter if its left or right or should i check all the tubes ?



Yes facing the front of the amp the tubes on the right side are for the right. Except for the 6SN7 type it is used for left and right.
But it is possible for the 6SN7 to pickup hum on one side only.


----------



## wazzupi (Aug 6, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Yes facing the front of the amp the tubes on the right side are for the right. Except for the 6SN7 type it is used for left and right.
> But it is possible for the 6SN7 to pickup hum on one side only.


Ok im using 4x or 6x 6bx7gt I bought a few more to swap around more,  I swapped right to left now,  im getting a channel inbalance the right sounds off(lower volume i guess). Lmao i guess its harder to find 6 tubes that play well with each other heh.

Ps i didnt hear the right hum when I did this ill test more later.


----------



## 2359glenn

@mordy had this problem with 6BX7s then channel imbalance that was a loose socket saver. He had some used tubes and one was bad.
When you buy these you have to make sure they are really new not used. When in TVs these tubes really got beat up in the vertical circuit.


----------



## leftside

Trial and error with the 6BL7s. I had the same problem with my WA22. Throw the bad ones out.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Trial and error with the 6BL7s. I had the same problem with my WA22. Throw the bad ones out.


Another possible remedy is that the tube pins have oxidized sitting around for decades. IMHO the easiest, cheapest and best method is to take a small pen knife blade (or similar-does not have to be sharp) and gently scrape all around the pins.
Sometimes this is all it takes.


----------



## gibosi

Another easy and cheap method to clean octal pins is sandpaper. I use 220 grit.


----------



## mordy (Aug 6, 2018)

Strolling down tube rolling lane - today is 12V day, backed up by a platoon of 6BX7 tubes.
First I tried a Sylvania 12SN7GT. It sounds quite nice.
Then I tried a 12SN7GT side getter Westinghouse - also good sounding.Next on to
12SL7GT tubes. Discovered that I have three date matched GE 12SL7GT from June 1964. Where did these tubes come from? Don't know, but they are there.
Quite an impressive looking tall tube with a beautiful interior reminding of Greek Neo-Classic design or Early American Basement with stately round pillar like plates.




I refurbished the desktop photo studio with a clean tape roll tube holder and furnished an expensive British background. These large boxes once housed Mullar 5R4WGB tubes but my Cetrons arrived in them.
As you all know black plates sound best, followed by gray plates, and, perish the thought, silver plates.
Discovered that two of the tubes have silver plates, and the third gray plates. Is there a difference in sound?
But first, what is the difference in this set-up between 12SN7 and 12SL7 tubes? It seems to me that the 12SL7 tubes hit harder and bring up the background a little more for a more analytical sound. It is as if the 12SL7 is more high strung and less relaxed than the 12SN7 tube.
Is there a difference between silver plate and gray plate in the identical tube? Maybe my imagination, but the gray plate tube sounds softer and less edgy. (Of course, it could just be an individual variation, but...)
I was supposed to try 6BL7 tubes instead of the BX tubes, but I just can't tear myself away from this set-up yet. If it ain't broke, why fix it?
Did I mention that the GOTL runs very cool with 9A of power tubes, whereas two Cetrons (10A) made it run much hotter.
Have fun!
PS: It is not my imagination that the gray plate sounds better in this case. I really like it.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Strolling down tube rolling lane - today is 12V day, backed up by a platoon of 6BX7 tubes.
> First I tried a Sylvania 12SN7GT. It sounds quite nice.
> Then I tried a 12SN7GT side getter Westinghouse - also good sounding.Next on to
> 12SL7GT tubes. Discovered that I have three date matched GE 12SL7GT from June 1964. Where did these tubes come from? Don't know, but they are there.
> ...



The two 6336 tubes draw more current through the internal resistors causing more heat.
Doesn't get that hot I usually burn in with 6336 tubes to put the most stress on internal parts. If something is going to fail I want it to happen before I ship.
Never had any parts fail so far.


----------



## mordy (Aug 6, 2018)

Found a nice article about the effect of the color of the plate on sound (but the author does not discuss silver colored plates):





New old stock RCA 12AV7 dual triode manufactured in 1950s and fitted with black plates.



Have you ever questioned why some new old stock tubes have black plates and others have grey plates? Or why black plate tubes command higher prices and are sought after by some audiophiles? Do black plate tubes possess superior tone or perhaps better reliability or is their coveted status simply the result of sales hype created by some tube vendors to make a few extra bucks? Effectrode undertakes a thorough investigation of this topic and tells it how it is!

During the early development of the tube, engineers understood that the plates of receiving tubes had to be kept cool in order to reduce secondary emission to extend tube life. Secondary emission occurs when electrons from the cathode strike the plate at high velocity, causing electrons (secondary emission electrons) to be dislodged from metal atoms in the plate. This process causes outgassing of the metals from the plate, shortening the tubes’ operational life.

Secondary emission isn’t a huge problem in triode tubes (12AX7, 12AY7, etc) used as voltage signal amplifers as only small currents flow and the plate stays relatively cool. However, in a current amplifier – such as in a tube guitar amp output stage – higher currents flow and the plate gets much hotter. In this case, the collective kinetic energy of all those electrons striking the plate causes additional heating – in some cases the plate can literally run red-hot and can glow dull red. The elevated temperature of the plate means that electrons are more easily dislodged and the plate undergoes more wear and deterioration due to outgassing.

Because the plate is enclosed within an evacuated glass envelope it can only cool by dissipating heat as radiation or conduction through the pins. In an effort to improve heat dissipation (emissivity) engineers figured out processes to manufacture plate material that was darker in colour – a truely black surface has the highest emissivity. Emissivity is the ratio of radiation emitted by a surface to the radiation emitted by a complete radiator (black body) at the same temperature and under the similar conditions. The emissivity can never be greater than unity. Listed below are a selection of emissivity values for metals from the _Color Scale of Temperature Handbook_ 1955, page 2692:


Silver, highly polished 0.02
Aluminum, highly polished 0.08
Nickel, polished 0.12
Cast iron 0.25
Monel metal, oxidised 0.43
Brass, polished 0.60
Oxidised steel 0.70
Black gloss paint 0.90
Lampblack 0.95
Practically all commercial receiving tubes manufactured before World War II were constructed with nickel or nickel alloy plates. Low power signal tubes, such as types used in portable radio sets, had natural colour plates as there was no need to dissipate large amounts of heat. In higher power applications where high emissivity darkened plates were required, the plates would be first treated by heating them to high temperatures and then placed in a hydrocarbon-rich atmosphere prior to assembly. This process would carbonise the plate giving its surface a charcoal black colour.

During World War II, nickel was in very short supply in Germany, so the German electrical industry developed composite plates which consisted of a very thin layer of aluminum pressed onto a steel or iron substrate. When heated sufficiently, the aluminum bonded to the steel and formed a very dark grey surface which worked about as well as carbonised nickel in tubes. Following the war, the process was adopted and refined by American tube companies, where it gradually displaced carbonised nickel. In the mid 1950s, General Electric developed a five-layer anode metal which had an inner copper layer. This became widely adopted for awhile as copper is a good conductor and distributed the heat over the surface of the plate more evenly preventing hotspots.

However, just to get a perspective on the significance of plate colour as a means for cooling the tube it should be noted that the transparency of the glass envelope to infrared radiation has nearly as much to do with plate temperature as the colour of the plate itself. Therefore, ensuring good air circulation, and avoiding shields whenever possible, make a lot *more difference* to the performance and longevity of tubes than the specific colours of their plates. So it’s could be questioned whether all these R & D efforts into plate emissivity were perhaps mis-directed, however the engineers were doing best practice – applying physics theory and experimentation to build tubes as well as they possibly could.

*Conclusion*
For low power preamplifier tubes and even power amplifier tubes in the application of guitar amps I question whether the plate colour has any real, practical benefit on tube life. Other variables such as ambient cooling due to airflow, tube orientation and correct biasing in power tubes have a greater influence on the plate temperature than the colour of the plate. Regarding sonic differences between black and grey plate tubes, I’m skeptical that there are any differences, however, although I’ve been unable to discern between the tubes I have tested and listened to, it’s possible that plate material might have some fundamental effect on the tone. Or perhaps something else in manufacture of black plate tubes affects inter-electrode capacitances, transconductance, plate resistance or leakage – all real measureable effects. It seems more likely that there is a measure of spread of these parameters in black and grey plate tubes and arbitarily swapping tubes in and out of an amplifier can yield subjectively better (or worse) tone. Any guitarist or engineer swapping out a tube in an amp might get lucky and hit the tone jackpot where the tube delivers what they consider to be a subjectively pleasing tone. They might then go on to make a broad generalisations about black or grey plate tubes based on this single, unique ‘happy accident’. Imagine this being repeated again and again by thousands of musicians and experimenters creating a ‘sea’ of subjective opinions based on all those variables – totally unscientific because it’s impossible to reduce all this data down to causes and effects and quantify what phyiscal parameters within the tube affect its tone in a beneficial way.

It is my view that a dominant factor affecting the tone of black plate tubes could simply be nostalgia. Although I regard myself as being scientifically objective I have to confess that I get nostalgic about old amps and tubes – old gear has a straight-forwardness, an honesty about it, harking from an idyllic, golden age in western manufacturing. Just the the look and smell of vintage ampifiers, new old stock tubes still in their original packaging, knowing those engineers from and bygone, better time and place used best practice in the design, that manufacturers built gear to last (and be serviced by a repairman) puts me in a great frame of mind when playing and that has to be something worth having!





Come to think of it, I never encountered a tube with silver colored plates that I really liked. I have also seen gold colored plates (brass) that sounded fine.
What do you think?


----------



## leftside

If it was considered that black plates were a "best practice" at the time then one can concur that the engineers probably used best practices for the rest of the tube.

I used to clean the tube pins with de-oxit, and although it works, I found it was too much of a pain to remove the de-oxit residue. I now too use sand paper (400), though also like the idea of using 220.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> @mordy had this problem with 6BX7s then channel imbalance that was a loose socket saver. He had some used tubes and one was bad.
> When you buy these you have to make sure they are really new not used. When in TVs these tubes really got beat up in the vertical circuit.



When I get a new (to me) 6BX7, I always run it as a driver to make sure it is OK. Interestingly, just because it is quiet as a driver, this does not guarantee that it will be quiet when used as an output tube. So I would guess that running two or three in parallel as output tubes is more demanding than running one as a driver...


----------



## mordy (Aug 7, 2018)

Today we are going into a gray area of tube rolling:



Here is a 1964 GE gray plate 12SL7GT tube. (The background is a very hot place.)
This tube is worth trying. The midrange is nice (slightly cool) and the sound stage is very wide, but what make this tube stand out is the great amount of detail in the lower and higher ends of the FR - almost like an etched quality.
When listening you can concentrate on an instrument in the background and clearly hear it, but this detailed information is not overwhelming or overpowering.
Power tubes are 6x GE 6BX7.
As always YMMV.


----------



## wazzupi

Is there a newb guide on tube amps or particularly glenns otl tube amp


----------



## lukeap69

wazzupi said:


> Is there a newb guide on tube amps or particularly glenns otl tube amp



Ha! After owning my GOTL (Codename Darna) for quite some time, I still consider myself as a tube amp noob!


----------



## mordy

Hi wazzupi,
Seriously, I would like to have a manual for the GOTL and especially a list of tubes or tube combinations NOT to use, especially since this amp allows enormous flexibility in tube choices.
I would also like to know what the technical name of the circuitry is - I know that it is not a cathode follower. 
I really don't know what that means either, but Glenn said that his circuitry dissipates the heat of the tubes through the tubes and not into resistors, and this accounts for the amp running cool without the aid of ventilation slots and fans. And since heat is the enemy of electronics, this is a very welcome feature.
I keep on getting acquainted with the GOTL and I am really enjoying it.
Now I tried that beautiful Tung Sol Ladder Plate 6F8G that was so microphonic the other day that I could not use it, and today it is perfectly quiet. There are lots of things that I don't understand, and this is one of them.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> ....I would also like to know what the technical name of the circuitry is - I know that it is not a cathode follower.....



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1052#post-13749687

"This circuit has many names: SRPP, SEPP, Totem Pole, Mu Follower, Mu amplifier, Cascoded Cathode Follower, and its original name, the Series-Balanced amplifier (Feb. 1943, US patent 2,310,342. Just what "SRPP" means is uncertain; maybe it stands for Series  Regulated Push-Pull amplifier or Single-Ended Reflexive  Push-Pull amplifier."

http://www.tubecad.com/may2000/


----------



## JazzVinyl

http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/SRPP_Blencowe.pdf

I did not know Glenn was a Radar tech at one time! My electronics teacher (who hated rectal-flyer tubes) was a Radar tech for the US Army when Radar was a brand new technology...


----------



## 2359glenn

I think the SRPP is a  good sounding output stage. It has a fast slew rate and a perfect square wave and with the right tubes can go over 1 Mhz.
I know nobody listens to a square wave but a amp better be able to do it If it is going to sound decent.
A square wave is also a good test fore testing role off. If it is tilted one way or the other the amp is ether rolling off the highs or the lows.
Think I am the only one using this circuit in a OTL output stage.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> I think the SRPP is a  good sounding output stage. It has a fast slew rate and a perfect square wave and with the right tubes can go over 1 Mhz.
> I know nobody listens to a square wave but a amp better be able to do it If it is going to sound decent.
> A square wave is also a good test fore testing role off. If it is tilted one way or the other the amp is ether rolling off the highs or the lows.
> Think I am the only one using this circuit in a OTL output stage.



Square Wave measurement!!!

From your Harman Kardon days, no doubt!


----------



## wazzupi

Any power tubes worth getting other than 4 or 6 bx7gts ?


----------



## Phantaminum

wazzupi said:


> Any power tubes worth getting other than 4 or 6 bx7gts ?



Were you able get any of the 6336a/b tubes? Could be those are quieter than the 6bx7s.


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## rnros (Aug 8, 2018)

wazzupi said:


> Any power tubes worth getting other than 4 or 6 bx7gts ?



CETRON 6336B. Pair is about $100, maybe less.
TUNG SOL 5998. Pair is about $250. Price varies, takes awhile to find a pair.

Lots of less expensive choices that sound very good.


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## 2359glenn (Aug 8, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Square Wave measurement!!!
> 
> From your Harman Kardon days, no doubt!



Of course I learned a few things there.
You wouldn't believe how many expensive amps out there can't produce a good square wave.
Rolled off on the leading edge or falling edge over priced junk.
Talk about colored amps.


----------



## wazzupi

Phantaminum said:


> Were you able get any of the 6336a/b tubes? Could be those are quieter than the 6bx7s.


I never did buy them i forgot


----------



## gibosi

wazzupi said:


> Any power tubes worth getting other than 4 or 6 bx7gts ?



As others have suggested, 6336B and 5998. But a pair of Chatham/Tung-Sol 6AS7 are also quite good, especially for the price. And even the lowly RCA 6AS7 can sound quite good with a fairly lively driver. And then there is the 6080...  Your journey has just begun.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> As others have suggested, 6336B and 5998. But a pair of Chatham/Tung-Sol 6AS7 are also quite good, especially for the price. And even the lowly RCA 6AS7 can sound quite good with a fairly lively driver. And then there is the 6080...  Your journey has just begun.



To add to this I've been curious as well about the 6AS7GAs. I think you mentioned in the 6AS7G thread that they are cheap and sound great.


----------



## mordy

Here is a tube that arrived today:




Except for what you see it has no markings. The two bottom letters possibly say S 4. The seller claims it is a TS 12SN7GT. It has the round black plates and works on 12V so I am sure that this is correct. 
It looks quite old but I don't know how to date it. 
Sounds very good but I need more time with it.


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## 2359glenn

wazzupi said:


> I never did buy them i forgot



You can try the lowly Svetlana 6N13 usually quiet and can run two or four of them to drive lower impedance phones.
+ cheep.Just have to wait for delivery.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N5S-6N13S...80057.m570.l1312.R1.TR3.TRC0.A0.H1.X6n13.TRS1


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## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> To add to this I've been curious as well about the 6AS7GAs. I think you mentioned in the 6AS7G thread that they are cheap and sound great.



No that wasn't me....  I don't own any 6AS7GA so I can't comment on the sound.... But they are cheap, and as you are finding out, everything sounds better in a Glenn, so they are definitely worth a try.


----------



## attmci

https://www.ebay.com/itm/352424409604


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## mordy

attmci said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/352424409604


Is the 6C8G with an amplification factor of 38 suitable for the GOTL?


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## rnros (Aug 9, 2018)

mordy said:


> Is the 6C8G with an amplification factor of 38 suitable for the GOTL?



Yes, I have used 6C8Gs in GOTL. It's fine. (KenRad,TungSol,National,Sylvania)
C3g has an amplification factor of 40.


----------



## JazzVinyl

And Mordy already has approved his SL7's with an mu of 70...

Tonight, I put my favorite driver from previous amps FDD20, in Glenn's magic machine...
And am blown away by the absolute wonderful sonics.

I had tried the FDD20 early on when I got Glenn's amp but felt like the FDD20 did not shine in it as I had hoped. 
But many hours later of run time on the GOTL...the FDD20 has all the attributes I remembered...and then some! 
Really loving this tube!!

6 pack of 6BL7's rarely come out the power positions....they are dependable and wonderful...

Such a 3D shimmer to cymbals close personal vocals, and a deep deep bottomless bass note. A sense of "being there"...

Once again, I say....thank you, Glenn for this amp!!!!!


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> Yes, I have used 6C8Gs in GOTL. It's fine. (KenRad,TungSol,National,Sylvania)
> C3g has an amplification factor of 40.


Thanks


JazzVinyl said:


> And Mordy already has approved his SL7's with an mu of 70...
> 
> Tonight, I put my favorite driver from previous amps FDD20, in Glenn's magic machine...
> And am blown away by the absolute wonderful sonics.
> ...


Hi JV,
Are you running the FDD20 on external power? I only have one, and it is connected to a custom h1 adapter that uses an external 12V power supply.
Did you try the ECC31?


----------



## Monsterzero

Slightly off topic post,but my GOTL lingers in the background and is referenced a cpl times in my Sennheiser HD250 review.


----------



## mordy

Right now I am trying UT's favorite combination of TS 12SN7GT BGRP and 6x6BX7. This sounds great with a powerful bass and great timbre. Delicious!


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> Right now I am trying UT's favorite combination of TS 12SN7GT BGRP and 6x6BX7. This sounds great with a powerful bass and great timbre. Delicious!


I get 3 new 6bx7s today i really hope it fixes the noise issues if not cleaning the tubes or something might be in order ?!?


----------



## gibosi

> Hi JV,
> Are you running the FDD20 on external power? I only have one, and it is connected to a custom h1 adapter that uses an external 12V power supply.
> Did you try the ECC31?



If you have the 6/12/25 switch, all that is necessary is a simple pin adapter, side-contact base to octal. Set the driver voltage switch to 12 volts and play.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> If you have the 6/12/25 switch, all that is necessary is a simple pin adapter, side-contact base to octal. Set the driver voltage switch to 12 volts and play.


My FDD20 has a custom adapter soldered on to it with an octal socket and wires for external power.
Can the GOTL be used with an external power source? (Not that it needs it, but necessitated by the wiring and custom adapter of this specific tube.)


----------



## Hansotek

wazzupi said:


> Any power tubes worth getting other than 4 or 6 bx7gts ?



Yeah, I'd definitely pick up the Centron 6336B's, as a couple people mentioned. You'll want to pick up a Raytheon 5CU4 rectifier ($20-ish) to run with those so they have enough juice (assuming you have tube rectification).... they won't sound right without a powerful rectifier. But that's a monster roll and not too pricey.

There is a lot of other stuff out there that is fun too... cheap RCAs are great, etc. I'd make the Centron/Raytheon combo a top priority though.


----------



## wazzupi

Hansotek said:


> Yeah, I'd definitely pick up the Centron 6336B's, as a couple people mentioned. You'll want to pick up a Raytheon 5CU4 rectifier ($20-ish) to run with those so they have enough juice (assuming you have tube rectification).... they won't sound right without a powerful rectifier. But that's a monster roll and not too pricey.
> 
> There is a lot of other stuff out there that is fun too... cheap RCAs are great, etc. I'd make the Centron/Raytheon combo a top priority though.


I have hex rectifier


----------



## gibosi

Yes, drivers requiring external power supplies can be used  with the GOTL. I often use an external 2.5V DC power supply to provide 3.5A to run a pair of UY227s.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Yes, drivers requiring external power supplies can be used  with the GOTL. I often use an external 2.5V DC power supply to provide 3.5A to run a pair of UY227s.



Holy Moly! That looks like a mad scientist went loco!


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Yes, drivers requiring external power supplies can be used  with the GOTL. I often use an external 2.5V DC power supply to provide 3.5A to run a pair of UY227s.


Thanks


----------



## Hansotek

wazzupi said:


> I have hex rectifier



The HEXFRED will have more than enough juice to drive them, so no need to worry about the rectifier then.


----------



## Hansotek

Monsterzero said:


> Holy Moly! That looks like a mad scientist went loco!



We're all a little loco here.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 9, 2018)

mordy said:


> Thanks
> 
> Hi JV,
> Are you running the FDD20 on external power? I only have one, and it is connected to a custom h1 adapter that uses an external 12V power supply.
> Did you try the ECC31?



Hello Mordy...

No sir...I  bought the FDD20->12SN7 adapter and just switch the driver voltage to 12v and presto  

Yes, I have tried ECC31, like it but not as much as the FDD20.

Also use the *"Joybringer"*....the early 1940's French made Visseaux 6N7G and it sings better than it did in previous amps, great tonality/separation and bass that is fantastic (was a bit thin in the FA offerings).

FDD20 is supposed to be a "flavor" of 6N7G and I will say the 6N7G family does really well in the GOTL...and should be considered a "fairly priced" driver that preforms like a premium priced one in this amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Thanks
> 
> Hi JV,
> Are you running the FDD20 on external power? I only have one, and it is connected to a custom h1 adapter that uses an external 12V power supply.
> Did you try the ECC31?



What you need is a 12SN7 to FDD20 adapter no external power supply needed.


----------



## mordy (Aug 9, 2018)

Meanwhile I put in a driver tube that sounds very similar to the FDD20 - the Mullard ECC31. This tube is a real oldie and certainly looks it with it's ST shape.
It has that rich mellow mid range of the Mullard tubes and sounds great.




Which reminded me to try the Mazda 6N7G (1948) from the French Air Force. This tube puts on a nice matching fireworks display together with the 6BX7. It does not disappoint in the GOTL and sounds more energetic and in the face than the Mullard, and it has what JV describes as a "wall of sound".



These two old timers seem to feel very much at home in the GOTL, much more so than in my old amps.



TS 12SN7GT BGRP, Mullard ECC31, Mazda 6N7G - each one sounds a little different but all sound excellent.
When I turned on the power for the Mullard there was a flash in the tube and at first I thought that I had left the voltage switch in the back of the amp at 12V. Then the tube started to glow weakly and I got scared. But not to worry; it worked fine, and the switch was set at 6V, so it must be that this tube has a quick heat feature which apparently is not uncommon.
PS: Funny that JV also noticed that the ECC31/FDD20/6N7G sound better in the GOTL....
Unfortunately the prices have gone up on these. Come to think of it, I have three US made ST 6SN7G - Arcturus, GM Delco and Sylvania. In my old amps they did not sound that great, but maybe the GOTL will reform them?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Yes, drivers requiring external power supplies can be used  with the GOTL. I often use an external 2.5V DC power supply to provide 3.5A to run a pair of UY227s.



Those 27s sound sweet the only driver I can use.


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 9, 2018)

Here is a odd ball tube that I am using in a 300B amp I am building. A Amperite 115NO30 time delay tube.
I am building this amp With HEXFRED rectifiers and they don't have the slow start of tube rectifiers.
Being 300Bs are direct heated they are instant on if The B+ comes up fast before the bias voltage
the 300Bs will go over current for a few seconds.
I am going to slow charge the filter capacitors through a large resistor then this time delay tube
will jump out the resistor after 30 seconds.
I am going to switch to the 9 pin version I can lock out the B+ if the delay tube is not in the socket.
Now have to get a 9 pin socket that fits in a octal hole as I have already drilled the holes.

Funny thing these tubes are still in production by Amperite as are there ballast tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Here is a odd ball tube that I am using in a 300B amp I am building. A Amperite 115NO30 time delay tube.
> I am building this amp With HEXFRED rectifiers and they don't have the slow start of tube rectifiers.
> Being 300Bs are direct heated they are instant on if The B+ comes up fast before the bias voltage
> the 300Bs will go over current for a few seconds.
> ...



I get it!!  It's a single pole/single throw ON/OFF switch that uses thermal action to throw the switch! 
Starts ON, uses heat to turn OFF.  Resets when voltage is interrupted...

An analog timer switch...specs say adjustable timer of 1 to 300 seconds.

Very cool!


----------



## mordy

Quote from JV:
_"I will say the 6N7G family does really well in the GOTL...and should be considered a "fairly priced" driver that preforms like a premium priced one in this amp."_ 
I wholeheartedly agree. These are real sleepers for the GOTL. All you need an adapter ECC31 to 6SN7 and the rest is plug and play. These tubes are on a par with the expensive drivers for a fraction of the cost. 
In addition, the shoulder type 6N7G tubes look beautiful, and some have a very nice tube glow. Also, these tubes are unusually quiet.

Now I have tried four different 6N7G drivers in the GOTL backed by a sextet of 6BX7 tubes. Mazda, Arcturus, GM (don't know who made it for them - Sylvania?) and a different Sylvania. With the exception of the last Sylvania which is very microphonic, they all sound fabulous with a very satisfying bass. The sound stage is very wide and has that wall of sound effect without any holes in the middle. IMHO these tubes sound better than the Mullard ECC31 in the GOTL. (The ECC31 is supposed to sound similar to the ECC32/34.)

PS: Even the Sylvania which has a very strong acoustic feedback as soon as I turn up the volume control on my preamp, I am able to use. I have to keep the preamp volume quite low and turn up the GOTL volume.
Are there any tricks to tame acoustic feedback?

There are cousins to the 6N7G tubes: The black all metal Top Hat 6N7 and the 6N7GT(glass tubular) which looks like a regular octal tube. I don't expect these tubes to sound as good as the ST tubes, but you cannot take anything for granted - hope to  try them soon - have a bunch.


----------



## leftside

Maybe you have a bad Mullard ECC31 Mordy!


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> I get it!!  It's a single pole/single throw ON/OFF switch that uses thermal action to throw the switch!
> Starts ON, uses heat to turn OFF.  Resets when voltage is interrupted...
> 
> An analog timer switch...specs say adjustable timer of 1 to 300 seconds.
> ...



Actually starts off turns on after 30 seconds jumping the resistor.
Will see how the HEXFREDS sound in a 300B amp. I still would prefer tube rectification that does the soft start.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Maybe you have a bad Mullard ECC31 Mordy!


Or maybe a good 6N7G lol....I don't know about the condition of the Mullard ECC31, but I think that it is OK. In the past I used it together with the FDD20 and it was fine.
Just plugged in an all metal 6N7 tube - a 1942 RCA. This is an interesting tube, The only glass in this tube is the bottom disc that holds the pins; everything else is metal. It has zero visual appeal and no tube glow and perhaps this accounts for the low prices. I used to pay $2 each, but now I think that they are up to $5-6. I have RCA, NU and K-R tubes.The nod goes to the K-R tubes in the GOTL.
Funny that all these old tubes crackle and groan from being woken up after sleeping 50-70 years, but once they start going the noises go away.




To my surprise they sound very similar to the ST 6N7G tubes. Probably the best bang for the buck that you can get for the GOTL. (You hear that , bangybangtubes)
I had in mind to listen to the glass version of this tube, the 6N7GT, but ATM I can't find them. I am probably the only one that cannot always find the tubes I am looking for.....
I am using a very elaborate low cost filing and storage system consisting of some 35-40 shoeboxes with descriptive labels.
Where is that French Neosonic 6N7GT????


----------



## Althalus

mordy said:


> I am using a very elaborate low cost filing and storage system consisting of some 35-40 shoeboxes



You call that low cost storage? And on top of that your wife needs a storage system for 40 minus one pair of shoes .


----------



## mordy

Althalus said:


> You call that low cost storage? And on top of that your wife needs a storage system for 40 minus one pair of shoes .


I get the shoe boxes for free - my family has a retail shoe store.


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> Any power tubes worth getting other than 4 or 6 bx7gts ?


Hi wazzupi,
You did not ask about driver tubes, but after listening to the Ken-Rad 6N7 with six 6BX7 tubes, I can really recommend the K-R tube. It is very inexpensive and you need an adapter ECC31 to 6SN7, but it is well worth the effort. 
Great full bodied sound and sound stage. Does anybody have experience with this tube?


----------



## Althalus

mordy said:


> Hi wazzupi,
> You did not ask about driver tubes, but after listening to the Ken-Rad 6N7 with six 6BX7 tubes, I can really recommend the K-R tube. It is very inexpensive and you need an adapter ECC31 to 6SN7, but it is well worth the effort.
> Great full bodied sound and sound stage. Does anybody have experience with this tube?



Mordy,
does the RCA also sound better in the gotl, just as in the Elise, or did you so far only test the KenRad? 

For those who don't understand my question, a couple of day's ago KenRad 6N7 was discussed in the Elise thread. 

I will at least put this tube on my wanted list including an adapter.


----------



## mordy

Althalus said:


> Mordy,
> does the RCA also sound better in the gotl, just as in the Elise, or did you so far only test the KenRad?
> 
> For those who don't understand my question, a couple of day's ago KenRad 6N7 was discussed in the Elise thread.
> ...


Hi Althalus,
Yes, the RCA also sound better in the GOTL - I would venture to say that almost all tubes sound better in the GOTL.
However, the RCA sounded better in my Euforia/Elise than the K-R, but in the GOTL it is the opposite. Don't ask me why, but different tubes sound different in the GOTL than in other amps - it must have to do with the topology of the circuitry.
On the Elise thread I suggested for Octavian to try the RCA since he already had the K-R, and these tubes are cheap enough that you can acquire more without breaking the bank.
Have been playing the 1944 Ken-Rad 6N7 all day. When I received them it looked like the box had been unopened since it was packed. It just keeps on getting better and better....


----------



## wazzupi

I have quite a collection of driver tubes i think hehe plus i like the driver Glenn shipped to me. I have broken 2 guides on my 6bx7 collection all from the same socket. I just got a huge popping sound on my right channel and nothing is playing from it just noise, it was loud as hell...


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> I have quite a collection of driver tubes i think hehe plus i like the driver Glenn shipped to me. I have broken 2 guides on my 6bx7 collection all from the same socket. I just got a huge popping sound on my right channel and nothing is playing from it just noise, it was loud as hell...


I also managed to break a guide pin on a 6BX7 tube. If you look carefully you can see a little notch in the circle of the guide pin which indicated where the ridge was. Than I stick on a little arrow on the base of the tube to indicate the location so that I don't insert the tube the wrong way.
Maybe the easiest way to identify a bad tube is to just try one pair at a time and determine which channel is bad.


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> I also managed to break a guide pin on a 6BX7 tube. If you look carefully you can see a little notch in the circle of the guide pin which indicated where the ridge was. Than I stick on a little arrow on the base of the tube to indicate the location so that I don't insert the tube the wrong way.
> Maybe the easiest way to identify a bad tube is to just try one pair at a time and determine which channel is bad.


I think one of my tubes just fried or something i can't hear from my right channel and it made a huge popping sound that i thought was an explosion for a second XD.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Quote from JV:
> _"I will say the 6N7G family does really well in the GOTL...and should be considered a "fairly priced" driver that preforms like a premium priced one in this amp."_
> I wholeheartedly agree. These are real sleepers for the GOTL. All you need an adapter ECC31 to 6SN7 and the rest is plug and play. These tubes are on a par with the expensive drivers for a fraction of the cost.
> In addition, the shoulder type 6N7G tubes look beautiful, and some have a very nice tube glow. Also, these tubes are unusually quiet.
> ...



Just a reminder that we all have different ears and gear... To my ears, I don't find the FDD20 to be nearly as good as it seems many others do. And while I haven't rolled all that many 6N7G, I do have a bunch of 6A6, which was the predecessor of the 6N7G. In most cases the only difference between the 6A6 and 6N7G is the base, with the 6A6 having the older 7-pin base with fat pins. Unfortunately, I have yet to try the Mazda and Visseaux versions, but so far, to my ears, the Mullard ECC31 is still the best of these common cathode types.


----------



## attmci

wazzupi said:


> I think one of my tubes just fried or something i can't hear from my right channel and it made a huge popping sound that i thought was an explosion for a second XD.


I assume you were using a pair of sacrifice headphone. Otherwise..........


----------



## wazzupi

attmci said:


> I assume you were using a pair of sacrifice headphone. Otherwise..........


Umm I was using my hd800 but they work


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 10, 2018)

wazzupi said:


> I think one of my tubes just fried or something i can't hear from my right channel and it made a huge popping sound that i thought was an explosion for a second XD.



Did you put the tube in the wrong way after breaking the guide pin off????
Was the explosion inside the amp??


----------



## wazzupi (Aug 10, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Did you put the tube in the wrong way after breaking the guide pin off????
> Was the explosion inside the amp??


No it sounded like one but nothing exploded it was just such a massive pop and a constant loud buzz noise afterwards and no i didn't put the broken tubes back it happened 30 mins after i turned it on. I have 9 bx7s.


----------



## wazzupi

2359glenn said:


> Did you put the tube in the wrong way after breaking the guide pin off????
> Was the explosion inside the amp??


Ill be home soon everything keeps happening on the right channel though I'm going to put 2 at a time until i figure out whats up. I was mainly removing one at a time until i got a normal channel balance.


----------



## attmci

wazzupi said:


> Umm I was using my hd800 but they work


Pls don't, it will damage the driver.


----------



## wazzupi

attmci said:


> Pls don't, it will damage the driver.


Don't use the hd800 for what purpose ?


----------



## attmci (Aug 10, 2018)

wazzupi said:


> Don't use the hd800 for what purpose ?


Don't use your HD800.Or you may have to buy new driver for it.


----------



## 2359glenn

wazzupi said:


> Ill be home soon everything keeps happening on the right channel though I'm going to put 2 at a time until i figure out whats up. I was mainly removing one at a time until i got a normal channel balance.



Do you have 6AS7 type tubes???
For now remove all the 6BX7s put one 6AS7 per channel and see how it works?


----------



## wazzupi

2359glenn said:


> Do you have 6AS7 type tubes???
> For now remove all the 6BX7s put one 6AS7 per channel and see how it works?


Like every time i swap tubes the sound is less or more or no noise or a channel imbalance. After the unit is on a while 30mins to a few hours I'll get a buzz on the right channel i feel like its the tubes and i think one of the tubes blew. Omg its my Sylvania 6sn7w metal base my favorite tube nooo the right channel isn't working imma try reseating it crosses finger !!


----------



## attmci

wazzupi said:


> Like every time i swap tubes the sound is less or more or no noise or a channel imbalance. After the unit is on a while 30mins to a few hours I'll get a buzz on the right channel i feel like its the tubes and i think one of the tubes blew. Omg its my Sylvania 6sn7w metal base my favorite tube nooo the right channel isn't working imma try reseating it crosses finger !!


No worries, just sale it: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-J...d=p3692.m570.l1313.TR6.TRC1.A0.H0.X6sn7w.TRS0


----------



## wazzupi (Aug 10, 2018)

lol, does this look like a good tube ? XD

PS yep its my sylvania 6sn7w its short lived 2 weeks  thats 150 bucks gone !


attmci said:


> No worries, just sale it: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-JAN-CHS-6SN7W-Metal-Base-Audio-Tube-One-Side-Bad/382538892386?hash=item5911184462:g:rYEAAOSw53dbbGaU&_sacat=0&_nkw=6sn7w&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p3692.m570.l1313.TR6.TRC1.A0.H0.X6sn7w.TRS0


----------



## UntilThen

The up side is you can still get $9.99 for it. 

I am on holiday now but when I get home I will have 2 more weeks off to spin my tubes. All 2 sets of sextet 6bx7 and 1 sextet of 6bl7 are working flawlessly with not a hum or any noise.

I will go through all my fav drivers again... and all those gorgeous power tubes.

Wazzupi so sorry to hear of your troubles. Hope you get the help to have it sorted soon.


----------



## Monsterzero

wazzupi said:


> lol, does this look like a good tube ? XD
> 
> PS yep its my sylvania 6sn7w its short lived 2 weeks  thats 150 bucks gone !



That sucks! Have you been able to get your amp to work right yet?


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 11, 2018)

gibosi said:


> Just a reminder that we all have different ears and gear... To my ears, I don't find the FDD20 to be nearly as good as it seems many others do. And while I haven't rolled all that many 6N7G, I do have a bunch of 6A6, which was the predecessor of the 6N7G. In most cases the only difference between the 6A6 and 6N7G is the base, with the 6A6 having the older 7-pin base with fat pins. Unfortunately, I have yet to try the Mazda and Visseaux versions, but so far, to my ears, the Mullard ECC31 is still the best of these common cathode types.



This is the very reason why I never say that a certain tube is better than another, it all depends on the rest of the chain, the headphones, the type of music that the user is listening to along with other things, just as you say Ken...different gears and ears

I would say that if you listed 10 really good driver tubes, most would agree that they are all really good, but to say what one is the best is nothing more than someones own personal preference.

I would agree that the ECC31  is a nice sounding tube, probably one of my ten favorites that I own.  I tend to prefer the more lush type of sound for most of the music that I listen to and with the rest of my gear.

For people on the bubble about what amp to get and not wanting to spend lots of cash on the most expensive tubes....just grab the EL3N amp....you will get as good or better sound than you get with the most expensive tubes for the OTL amp and not have to roll any tubes...you can roll rectifier tubes if you wish, you will save lots of money in the end.


----------



## wazzupi

ok soo so far I love the 12sl7 gt, 13D1, sylvania 6sn7w metal base (left side works only) , LOL im really bummed about it breaking man... It was my favorite overall. 6f8g are passable but as the 2nd most expensive individual tube I would of rather stock piled sylvania 6sn7w's . i dont know whats up with my c3gs but I didn't hear it before they have a channel inbalance, I also found my combo of 6bx7s with 0 noise and 0 channel inbalance except with the c3gs i have, which im assuming are the c3gs themselves i tried swapping them and it still does it on the same side so I don't know what it could be exactly.


----------



## whirlwind

wazzupi said:


> lol, does this look like a good tube ? XD
> 
> PS yep its my sylvania 6sn7w its short lived 2 weeks  thats 150 bucks gone !




Sorry to hear this, but it does happen


----------



## 2359glenn

Buy cheep tubes not worth spending $150 for a 70 year old device. The 13D1 is good enough $7.50 never had a bad one.
But 6BX7s have to be NOS don't get used ones or you will have nothing but problems.


----------



## attmci (Aug 11, 2018)

wazzupi said:


> lol, does this look like a good tube ? XD
> 
> PS yep its my sylvania 6sn7w its short lived 2 weeks  thats 150 bucks gone !



It looks like a 7N7......

I have a bunch of dead/half tubes........metal base gz34, GEC 6AS7G,shorted 5998, weak Bendix 6080wb...............


----------



## 2359glenn

Another thing use cheep headphones let the tubes burn for awhile then go to your good ones!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I blew headphones with bad tubes mostly 5998s now i have nothing to do with 5998s. People love them expensive junk to me.


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> I have a bunch of dead/half tubes........metal base gz34, GEC 6AS7G,...............



You have 1/2 dead GEC 6AS7s odd they are usually good tubes. But any tube can be bad they are old now and you don't know if they are really new.


----------



## attmci (Aug 11, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> You have 1/2 dead GEC 6AS7s odd they are usually good tubes. But any tube can be bad they are old now and you don't know if they are really new.



"Physical" damage. I can see it.I am using a pair of clear-top 5998 all the time. TO ME, they are very close to 421A. I know you hate them.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The 13D1 tube arrived (thanks, Glenn) - great sounding tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

The best sounding $7.50 tube you can buy. As good as a B65 or B36 for 10X less money I love this driver.


----------



## Althalus

Hi Wazzupi,

Sorry to hear about your problems with the driver. It's somehow a crazy thing, you were focussed on the power tubes and then POP.... you were told very loud that you were searching in the wrong direction.

I hope nothing else is damaged and that you can still enjoy your amp.

I think that when Glenn has finished my amp, I will first use the tubes Glenn send with it before I insert the 6bl7's I ordered. And maybe buy a cheap headphone. But I have to keep my wishlist small. Cheap headphone, socket savers , a lot of tubes everyone recommends , and so on.


----------



## wazzupi

What socket savers does everyone use XD


----------



## wazzupi

Althalus said:


> Hi Wazzupi,
> 
> Sorry to hear about your problems with the driver. It's somehow a crazy thing, you were focussed on the power tubes and then POP.... you were told very loud that you were searching in the wrong direction.
> 
> ...


My amp is working fine I just bought my tubes months before so i can't even return them I don't know what caused them to pop and lose sound on 1 side or if it's fixable but i still got some great sounding tubes and my 6bx7s are finally set


----------



## leftside

@wazzupi I want to help, but your posts have been a little tricky to follow.

It appears the amp is fine, you have sound coming out of both channels, and you've now found good sets of tubes?

I'd throw out any tubes that are causing loud popping noises. They are not fixable.


----------



## wazzupi

leftside said:


> @wazzupi I want to help, but your posts have been a little tricky to follow.
> 
> It appears the amp is fine, you have sound coming out of both channels, and you've now found good sets of tubes?
> 
> I'd throw out any tubes that are causing loud popping noises. They are not fixable.


ya i think it's the fact i have 6 tubes plus driver tube connected and it was my first time using them, so i had to find the balance to make it sound great, make sure the driver tubes were functioning it appears some were not. I wasn't expecting alot of my tubes to not work. Anyone know where i can buy a tube tester


----------



## 2359glenn

The problem with tube testers is they don't run the tubes in real operating conditions. You had that 6SN7 fail a tube tester probably wouldn't have caught that.
Maybe it would have found the 6BX7s with different gain though.
Other then noise 6SN7s are rarely a problem. 6BX7/6BL7s are a pain in the ass but sound so good with a 300 ohm headphone like the Auteur and HD-800.


----------



## wazzupi

2359glenn said:


> The problem with tube testers is they don't run the tubes in real operating conditions. You had that 6SN7 fail a tube tester probably wouldn't have caught that.
> Maybe it would have found the 6BX7s with different gain though.
> Other then noise 6SN7s are rarely a problem. 6BX7/6BL7s are a pain in the ass but sound so good with a 300 ohm headphone like the Auteur and HD-800.


Thank you now i don't have to buy one hehe, yes because i bought 3 new 6bx7s and the person put the gain on the tubes i was actually some how able to arrange the tubes easier .


----------



## gibosi

wazzupi said:


> What socket savers does everyone use XD



I don't use socket savers. In principle, I think they are a good idea, but I am not sure that they work all that well in the real world, or at least not in "my" real world. lol. I find it difficult to insert and remove tubes without having to remove the socket saver as well. And of course, this defeats the purpose. Ideally, it would be great if I could somehow fasten the socket saver directly to the socket so it can't be pulled out, but I don't see an easy way to accomplish this. In the end, I do a fair amount of tube rolling and so far, my sockets are holding up well.


----------



## wazzupi

gibosi said:


> I don't use socket savers. In principle, I think they are a good idea, but I am not sure that they work all that well in the real world, or at least not in "my" real world. lol. I find it difficult to insert and remove tubes without having to remove the socket saver as well. And of course, this defeats the purpose. Ideally, it would be great if I could somehow fasten the socket saver directly to the socket so it can't be pulled out, but I don't see an easy way to accomplish this. In the end, I do a fair amount of tube rolling and so far, my sockets are holding up well.


good to know i found some cheap 2.50 dollars each on tubedepot.com so i was curious.


----------



## 2359glenn

What you need is socket savers like these they can't pull out of the amp socket after screwed down.




https://www.ebay.com/itm/5PC-8-PIN-...aver+8+pin&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313


----------



## wazzupi

2359glenn said:


> What you need is socket savers like these they can't pull out of the amp socket after screwed down.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5PC-8-PIN-TEST-TUBE-SOCKET-SAVER-WITH-FIXTURES-FOR-6L6-EL34-KT88-6550-AUDIO-AMP/261901275398?hash=item3cfa885106:g:CNoAAOxyrYFR14P2&_sacat=0&_nkw=tube+tester+socket+saver+8+pin&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313


that requires one to open the amp ?


----------



## wazzupi

quick question, anyone have trouble with microphonics from very sensitive vibrations(like picking up my mouse and moving it or typing hard) ? im looking to either put the amp on a small table or a stand that reduces vibrations any suggestions ?


----------



## 2359glenn

wazzupi said:


> that requires one to open the amp ?



Yes you have to take the bottom off.


----------



## JazzVinyl

wazzupi said:


> PS yep its my sylvania 6sn7w its short lived 2 weeks  thats 150 bucks gone !



Sorry Wazzupi.....I have had a tall bottle, non metal based Sylvania 6SN7W go out on one side too.
Does break your heart...such great sounding tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Buy cheep tubes not worth spending $150 for a 70 year old device. The 13D1 is good enough $7.50 never had a bad one.
> But 6BX7s have to be NOS don't get used ones or you will have nothing but problems.



Listening to the 13D1 now with a 6 pack of 6BL7's on 'new to me' HD650 (latest edition) that just arrived (thanks Monsterzero) and 
heck yeah, the 25 volt 13D1 is a fantastic driver.  

I still prefer BL's to BX's but wow, the value in this amp....and its ability to natively run a 25v tube....

This is an important feature.  The 13D1 is NOS and are still around as new, because almost no one runs a 25 volt tube anymore. 

 Wazzupi, go for the 13D1....!!!

Glenn for President!!


----------



## mordy

So here is a question: If I have a Sylvania 6SN7W with a bad left channel, can I pair it with another Sylvania 6SN7W with a bad right channel?
Re socket savers, I use the least expensive ones, and by holding it down with one hand I am usually able to pull out the tube with the other hand and the socket saver staying in place.
Regarding stating that a specific tube sounds very good, I first thought when I started with tube amps that it would not be possible to to arrive at a consensus, given that everybody have different equipment and different ears and taste.
To my surprise, however, and through the input of many forum members, I came to the realization that it is quite possible to come up with a small, select group of tubes that will please many people. There is no best tube, but there are a some tubes that will make most people very happy.
Then I discovered that several people would hear the same things that I hear, and over time it made me more confident in evaluating a certain tube as good sounding.
And I get a kick out of finding inexpensive tubes that can compete with the well known expensive ones. Another new experience is that the tubes that I am familiar with may sound different in the GOTL (usually for the better).
Gibosi, did you listen to the K-R 6N7 with 6BX7? I am listening to it again now, and IMHO this is really great sounding, right up there with the best.
A final note on a bad eBay purchase: It is my impression that you have up to 180 days to file a claim.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> ...Gibosi, did you listen to the K-R 6N7 with 6BX7? I am listening to it again now, and IMHO this is really great sounding, right up there with the best....



How about a picture of your K-R? I see several K-R with different construction and I have no idea which one you have....


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> How about a picture of your K-R? I see several K-R with different construction and I have no idea which one you have....


Hi G,
It ain't got any looks -









My pair is from 1944


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi G,
> It ain't got any looks -
> 
> 
> ...



As you might remember, I rolled 6A6 from the 1930's rather than 6N7/G, but I don't have a K-R. Given that they are cheap, will pick up one of these metal 6N7s and check it out.


----------



## mordy

Hopefully you will not be disappointed. I bought them from a seller icerope that accepted a real lowball offer of $4.50/pair + shipping, but I do not see him offering these tubes now - maybe contact him:
https://www.ebay.com/usr/icerope3434?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754


----------



## JazzVinyl

I just popped in a metal envelope RCA 6N7 and am surprised at how good it sounds.  Had not been impressed with it in the FA offering.
It's DEAD silent...

Just ordered a 1940's K-R metal envelope 6N7 for less than $7 shipped.  Can't wait to see what the K-R sounds like...

Thanks, Mordy!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

The Gibosi suggested ECC804 arrived from England today, too....but still waiting on the adaptor....


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> The Gibosi suggested ECC804 arrived from England today, too....but still waiting on the adaptor....





JazzVinyl said:


> I just popped in a metal envelope RCA 6N7 and am surprised at how good it sounds.  Had not been impressed with it in the FA offering.
> It's DEAD silent...
> 
> Just ordered a 1940's K-R metal envelope 6N7 for less than $7 shipped.  Can't wait to see what the K-R sounds like...
> ...


It surprised me too - just watch out; they run quite hot. And yes, the 6N7 and 6N7G are unusually quiet in my setup as well.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> The Gibosi suggested ECC804 arrived from England today, too....but still waiting on the adaptor....


It uses the same adapter as the 6DJ8 or 6N23P. Curious to know how it compares to the Russian 6N23P.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 12, 2018)

I had a metal 6N7 once, but it arrived DOA and i never replaced it...may get one since the price is right.

Wanted to listen to the Atticus this morning so I fired up the OTL amp......Bendix 6080 power tubes and the 13D1 driver....sounds great, like most tube combos in this amp.
I agree with Glenn, this is a great driver tube for the money....no diminishing return here.


Been working on my listening room when I get the time, it is not done,taking baby steps for sure...but little by little.
I do have my gear all moved now and I am listening in there
The table is made from some in store stock kitchen countertop that I found a good deal on .

 



I need to do some refinishing work on the floor and get some pics hung on the wall and replace some wall  face plates and find a way to hide my wires so it looks better.

I did take a few hours and go through numerous tubs and boxes of tubes and finally sort them out and made three tubes that are tubes that I know are quiet.


Soon I can just relax and enjoy the music.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> It surprised me too - just watch out; they run quite hot. And yes, the 6N7 and 6N7G are unusually quiet in my setup as well.



Yes I did see how the metal envelope 6N7 was hot to the touch....

New Phones have re-evaluating the top driver tubes....

TS BGRP (mine is 12SN7) has moved up a notch.  
Syl 6SN7 down a notch. 
13D1 is in the top 5 (like it a lot).  
TS Mouse Ears have moved up a couple of notches...
And all the 6N7 family are top preformers...


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> go for the 13D1



Can you share what the characteristics are of this tube?




JazzVinyl said:


> HD650 (latest edition) that just arrived (thanks Monsterzero)


You're welcome. You have assisted in contributing to my Auteur funds!


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I had a metal 6N7 once, but it arrived DOA and i never replaced it...may get one since the price is right.
> 
> Wanted to listen to the Atticus this morning so I fired up the OTL amp......Bendix 6080 power tubes and the 13D1 driver....sounds great, like most tube combos in this amp.
> I agree with Glenn, this is a great driver tube for the money....no diminishing return here.
> ...



Wow!!

Everything is looking really great, Joe!!!

Get you some decor and some "mood lighting" and you will be all set!!

Love your gear too...!!! Great stuff!!  
In your room...relaxing and enjoying...you won't be in wifey's way


----------



## pippen99

"I need to do some refinishing work on the floor and get some pics hung on the wall and replace some wall  face plates and find a way to hide my wires so it looks better."

Get some golf club tubes. We used them at a stereo shop I used to work for and also at home.  Worked great!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Can you share what the characteristics are of this tube?



Hello MZ....

13D1 has three outstanding attributes that I look for in a driver:

1> Bass...lots of it.  I have always been partial to a thick bass note.  13D1 delivers. 

2> Details....love rich details...that un-crowded,  space that allows tiny details to come through.  

3> Sound Stage - 13D1 appears to take some of these wonderful details (in the treble area) and places them higher up and further back in the soundstage than my other top flight drivers. Really interesting that it does this. Makes me take notice and flavors very familiar works in a new way that I like and find interesting.


----------



## Monsterzero

Cant locate any on eBay,does anyone have a link or two for a 13D1?


----------



## gibosi

The story of  metal tubes might be interesting to some here....

As a result of an anti-trust lawsuit brought against RCA, GE and Westinghouse, GE and Westinghouse ceased production of radio receiving tubes for 5 years, beginning in 1930. During that 5 year period, GE began to develop metal tubes with the intent of making a big splash in the market place when they re-entered the radio business in 1935. Also of note, these were the first tubes to use the octal base. Unfortunately for GE, while their laboratory and engineering facilities were up to the task, their production facilities were not. These facilities had reverted back to the manufacture of light bulbs and GE ended up turning to RCA to arrange for the manufacture of the first metal tubes.

As you might imagine, other radio receiver and vacuum tube manufacturers were not exactly thrilled with the prospect that glass tubes might be made obsolete by these new metal tubes. And this was especially true of Philco, who claimed at that time to be the world's largest radio receiver manufacturer. In fact, Philco loudly belittled the metal tubes, claiming that they were not as good as glass tubes, and refused to use metal tubes in any of their equipment.

Further, Philco pushed other vacuum tube manufacturers, especially Sylvania and Raytheon to develop octal-based glass tubes to compete with the metal types. By the end of 1936, one year after the introduction of the metal tube, there were 34 types of octal-based glass tubes in production. For example, slapping an octal base on a 6A6 resulted in a 6N7G. Two years later, in 1938, the GT was born. GT glass tubes were about the same size as the GE/RCA metal tube and could be used as replacements without any modifications to the receiver. And by the mid-1940's, GT production was twice that of metal tubes.


----------



## wazzupi

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello MZ....
> 
> 13D1 has three outstanding attributes that I look for in a driver:
> 
> ...


I think thats why I loves how it complemented my Sylvania 6sn7 metal base but i felt the soundstage was significantly larger with the sylvania.(when i say complement i mean they have such a difference in tone that it provides a great alternative to different genres of music and encourages me to tube roll)


----------



## mordy

Finally found my stash of 6N7GT tubes. Of course, it was in a box right under my nose covered with a layer of TS 7236 tubes.
Anyhow, just inventoried this lot bought from Germany: 2 RCA, Tung Sol, National Union, Sylvania and a French Neotron from August 1957. It is quite a tall tube with an interesting construction with some kind of bracket reinforced plate. However, upon checking the other 6N7GT tubes they all have this type of brackets added in different forms.










These tubes should keep me busy for a little while.
One RCA has a date code NG (7/63) - don't think such a code is politically correct today lol.....


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> The story of  metal tubes might be interesting to some here....
> 
> As a result of an anti-trust lawsuit brought against RCA, GE and Westinghouse, GE and Westinghouse ceased production of radio receiving tubes for 5 years, beginning in 1930. During that 5 year period, GE began to develop metal tubes with the intent of making a big splash in the market place when they re-entered the radio business in 1935. Also of note, these were the first tubes to use the octal base. Unfortunately for GE, while their laboratory and engineering facilities were up to the task, their production facilities were not. These facilities had reverted back to the manufacture of light bulbs and GE ended up turning to RCA to arrange for the manufacture of the first metal tubes.
> 
> ...



Philco also pushed Sylvania to make Loctal tubes Many Philco radios from the 1940s had Loctal tubes. Most all Loctal tubes were made by Sylvania.
I have a nice philco radio that would cut vinyl on the phonograph .pretty cool you could record from the radio by cutting a record.
This radio still works but cant get blank 78s. This radio is almost all loctal tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Back to my Philips (branded Harman Kardon) 12AU7....backed by 6 pack of 6BL7's...

Ummmm ummmm good...!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Finally found my stash of 6N7GT tubes. Of course, it was in a box right under my nose covered with a layer of TS 7236 tubes.
> Anyhow, just inventoried this lot bought from Germany: 2 RCA, Tung Sol, National Union, Sylvania and a French Neotron from August 1957. It is quite a tall tube with an interesting construction with some kind of bracket reinforced plate. However, upon checking the other 6N7GT tubes they all have this type of brackets added in different forms.
> 
> 
> ...



Will be interested to see what you think of these Mordy...another inexpensive driver tube....


----------



## mordy (Aug 13, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Will be interested to see what you think of these Mordy...another inexpensive driver tube....


Hi JV,
Here goes - bought a lot of some eight tubes from a seller in Germany for less than $20 if I remember correctly.
There were two metal 6N7 RCA tubes from 1942-43 in this lot; the rest were 6N7GT tubes.
Neotron 6N7GT: Laid back, no bass punch, nice midrange. Just an OK tube.
National Union 6N7GT: Gray glass, horrible hum, unusable.
Tung Sol 6N7GT 11/55 Gray glass. This tube sounds excellent with punchy bass and although a little more laid back, very similar to the Ken-Rad metal 6N7.
RCA 6N7G 7/63. Clear glass and no getter flash visible; just two black dots above the top mica. The sound is somewhat off timbre and harsh sounding - think early bluish LED lights that renders a cold glare.
RCA 6N7GT JAN 6/74 gray glass. Constant crackling sound in the background. By now I know that this cannot be fixed...
Super Silvertone 6N7GT/G. Gray glass. Has code ICX. Came in a Sylvania box, but I think that this was a Radio Shack label. Don't know who made it: RCA? Sylvania?
It sounds very good, similar to the Tung Sol above, but a little more light weight.

Conclusion: Mid-western swagger wins; Ken-Rad 6N7(Kentucky Radio, later bought by GE).
Gibosi: Thanks for the very interesting article about the metal tubes. The only thing I remember reading was that it was cheaper to manufacture glass tubes, and most factories switched to glass.
If I remember correctly Westinghouse had to sign an anti-trust agreement for a longer time and that's why you can't find Westinghouse labeled tubes for an extended time period.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> ....If I remember correctly Westinghouse had to sign an anti-trust agreement for a longer time and that's why you can't find Westinghouse labeled tubes for an extended time period.....



The terms for Westinghouse and GE were the same. And even though GE hoped to make a splash with their metal tubes, in the end, GE and Westinghouse both got the short end of this deal. RCA owned and controlled literally thousands of patents, and their cross-licensing terms provided inadequate incentive for either of these companies to press forward with original radio research. They simply couldn't make enough money to justify bringing their large vacuum-tube factories back online. While both companies continued to work on developing and providing tubes for non-radio industrial applications, such as motor control, railway signaling and medical applications, compared to the radio business, these endeavors were not a significant source of income, and multiple large vacuum-tube factories were no longer necessary. By the end of WWII, many of the most restrictive patents had expired, enabling GE and Westinghouse to return to the radio business. While Westinghouse slowly rebuilt their vacuum-tube factories, GE jump-started the process by purchasing Ken-Rad.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> The terms for Westinghouse and GE were the same. And even though GE hoped to make a splash with their metal tubes, in the end, GE and Westinghouse both got the short end of this deal. RCA owned and controlled literally thousands of patents, and their cross-licensing terms provided inadequate incentive for either of these companies to press forward with original radio research. They simply couldn't make enough money to justify bringing their large vacuum-tube factories back online. While both companies continued to work on developing and providing tubes for non-radio industrial applications, such as motor control, railway signaling and medical applications, compared to the radio business, these endeavors were not a significant source of income, and multiple large vacuum-tube factories were no longer necessary. By the end of WWII, many of the most restrictive patents had expired, enabling GE and Westinghouse to return to the radio business. While Westinghouse slowly rebuilt their vacuum-tube factories, GE jump-started the process by purchasing Ken-Rad.


Thanks - very interesting. A lot of GE tubes show their EIA code 188 followed by 5. Is the 5 the Owensboro, Kentucky  K-R plant?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Guys I should have downloaded this a long time ago, but I finally got to it now, and its uploaded in HD!  Here is my unboxing of the Glenn GOTL.

Glenn GOTL unboxing video

Hope you enjoy friends


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Thanks - very interesting. A lot of GE tubes show their EIA code 188 followed by 5. Is the 5 the Owensboro, Kentucky  K-R plant?


Re the Silvertone 6N7GT/G I erroneously stated that I thought it was Radio Shack. However, Silvertone was the name Sears used on their tubes. Most of them appeared to have been made by Sylvania, followed by RCA.


----------



## whirlwind

MTMECraig said:


> Guys I should have downloaded this a long time ago, but I finally got to it now, and its uploaded in HD!  Here is my unboxing of the Glenn GOTL.
> 
> Glenn GOTL unboxing video
> 
> Hope you enjoy friends




Ha, very cool....great job.


----------



## wazzupi

sylvania 6sn7w Metal base come to daddy ! Hehe (75 dollars) tung sol 12SL7GT black glass round plates 10 bucks a good price ?


----------



## 2359glenn

wazzupi said:


> sylvania 6sn7w Metal base come to daddy ! Hehe (75 dollars) tung sol 12SL7GT black glass round plates 10 bucks a good price ?



Great price you stole it.


----------



## whirlwind

Anybody know of anywhere that sells  cardboard tube sleeves....the long narrow sleeve that holds 5 tubes


----------



## wazzupi

whirlwind said:


> Anybody know of anywhere that sells  cardboard tube sleeves....the long narrow sleeve that holds 5 tubes


I need something to hold all these tubes i have !!!


----------



## 2359glenn

wazzupi said:


> I need something to hold all these tubes i have !!!



I know send them to me especially that 12SN7 BGRP you just bought.


----------



## gibosi

wazzupi said:


> I need something to hold all these tubes i have !!!



And how many do you have?

I generally keep mine in boxes. Some on shelves and some in pull-out drawers:


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Thanks - very interesting. A lot of GE tubes show their EIA code 188 followed by 5. Is the 5 the Owensboro, Kentucky  K-R plant?



I'm not sure what the meaning of the number 5 is. Again, GE did not manufacture any radio tubes from roughly 1932 until around 1944, when it purchased Ken-Rad. Evidently, a small number of the earliest metal tubes were manufactured by GE in its Nela Park (Cleveland) plant in 1935-36, but production ceased as soon as RCA got up to speed in the summer of 1936. Other than that, it is my understanding that all of GE's radio tube production was based in Ken-Rad's Owensboro plant after 1944. And if I had to guess, 5 might indicate a certain assembly line, or perhaps a floor in a factory building, or perhaps a separate factory bulding #5, but I don't know....

Given that your metal Ken-Rad 6N7 are dated 1944, they were likely manufactured at about the time GE acquired Ken-Rad, but before changes were implemented on the factory floor. Ken-Rad had a very solid reputation and it appears that GE wisely chose to leave well enough for a while.


----------



## wazzupi

gibosi said:


> And how many do you have?
> 
> I generally keep mine in boxes. Some on shelves and some in pull-out drawers:


Boxes are so flimsy and yeah i kinda have mine in drawers like urs


----------



## wazzupi

wazzupi said:


> Boxes are so flimsy and yeah i kinda have mine in drawers like urs


But i have like 30 tubes total nothing like yours


----------



## wazzupi

2359glenn said:


> I know send them to me especially that 12SN7 BGRP you just bought.


XD i haven't even received it yet ! Hehe


----------



## JazzVinyl

wazzupi said:


> But i have like 30 tubes total nothing like yours



Inverted Egg cartons:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1181#post-13958376

.


----------



## gibosi

wazzupi said:


> But i have like 30 tubes total nothing like yours



Yeah, just counting 4-volt rectifiers alone, I've got more than 30... don't know for sure how many tubes total... last count about 2000... but a lot of those are Little Dot tubes...


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> don't know for sure how many tubes total... last count about 2000.



Holy Schiit man...Intervention time!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Holy Schiit man...Intervention time!



LOL....

One day, gibosi will a find a tube he likes....  

He loves it...its his hobby.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> LOL....
> 
> One day, gibosi will a find a tube he likes....
> 
> He loves it...its his hobby.



Ken Never will always be trying new tubes.
There are old dual triodes 7 pin with the big pins to try but I will keep my mouth shut and save him money.


----------



## Monsterzero

wazzupi said:


> XD i haven't even received it yet ! Hehe



I have the six volt version...you will be quite happy,especially for ten bucks!


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Thanks - very interesting. A lot of GE tubes show their EIA code 188 followed by 5. Is the 5 the Owensboro, Kentucky  K-R plant?


There's a key here http://pax-comm.com/pa01017.htm but I don't know how reliable it is.


> GE EIA/RETMA LOCATION CODES
> 188-4 OWENSBORO, KY.
> 188-5 OWENSBORO, KY. This is most predominate. See note.
> 188-6 SCHENECTADY, NY
> ...


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Ken Never will always be trying new tubes.
> There are old dual triodes 7 pin with the big pins to try but I will keep my mouth shut and save him money.



In addition to the 6A6? Common cathode? I think dual triodes with separate cathodes require 8 pins, or 7 with a top cap?

Parenthetically, separate cathode dual triodes like the 6SN7 and 6SL7 are not possible in the metal tube format due to the fact that one of the 8 pins has to be used to ground the metal casing. So we see the 6N7, a common cathode dual triode in metal, but no dual triodes, like the 6SN7, with separate cathodes. A glass bottle with an octal base makes the 6SN7 and 6SL7 possible.

A 7-pin Sylvania 6A6, dated February, 1938


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 13, 2018)

There are other single cathode 7 pin glass tubes like the 6E6 and the 8 pin 6Y7G and don't forget the 6AH7 and 12AH7 dual triode separate cathodes
needs a adapter. Well all of these need a adapter.
Ken I can drive you crazy with tubes that will work don't know how they sound though.
I wasn't thrilled with the 6AH7 but people swear by it.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> There are other single cathode 7 pin glass tubes like the 6E6 and the 8 pin 6Y7G and don't forget the 6AH7 and 12AH7 dual triode separate cathodes
> needs a adapter. Well all of these need a adapter.
> Ken I can drive you crazy with tubes that will work don't know how they sound though.
> I wasn't thrilled with the 6AH7 but people swear by it.



i have tried the 12AH7 (Tung-Sol and National Union), as well as the loctal versions, 7AF7 and 14AF7. For some reason, the 6AH7 appears to be very rare. The Tung-Sol 12AH7 (VT-207) is very similar to the TS 12SN7, a really nice tube. And I liked the loctal versions, Sylvania, better than the 7N7 and 14N7. So for the more adventurous souls out there, these might be worth a try. 

I haven't tried the 6E6, but as it has the same pinout as the 6A6, maybe I will see if I can grab a few. But since the 6Y7G will require yet another adapter, maybe I will hold off... at least for now...  lol


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> i have tried the 12AH7 (Tung-Sol and National Union), as well as the loctal versions, 7AF7 and 14AF7. For some reason, the 6AH7 appears to be very rare. The Tung-Sol 12AH7 (VT-207) is very similar to the TS 12SN7, a really nice tube. And I liked the loctal versions, Sylvania, better than the 7N7 and 14N7. So for the more adventurous souls out there, these might be worth a try.
> 
> I haven't tried the 6E6, but as it has the same pinout as the 6A6, maybe I will see if I can grab a few. But since the 6Y7G will require yet another adapter, maybe I will hold off... at least for now...  lol


Got confused from the alphabet soup of tube designations and ended up looking for a T50, but it does not look like a tube....


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Anybody know of anywhere that sells  cardboard tube sleeves....the long narrow sleeve that holds 5 tubes


I might have some GE, Sylvania and RCA left. I'll post up what I have by the end of the week.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The adaptor for ECC88->6SN7 arrived in today's mail, as did a silver XLR cable for the HD650's...

So, was able to try the Mazda ECC804 that came in from England...

I am very impressed with this tube.  Consider it a gigantic bargain tube.  Big performance for small money.  
Super happy with it, thanks for the suggestion, gibosi..!

Will report more, whenI have heard more of it....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Also very very pleased with the 13D1 that Glenn sent.  I find it irresitqble, with is fantastic tonal balance and the surprising sound stage presentation.  
I pop in other drivers, enjoy them , but find myself wanting to go back to the 13D1.

It is a very fine driver.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> The adaptor for ECC88->6SN7 arrived in today's mail, as did a silver XLR cable for the HD650's...
> 
> So, was able to try the Mazda ECC804 that came in from England...
> 
> ...


Hi JV,
Is the Mazda ECC804 an improvement over the Voskhod 6N23P?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> Is the Mazda ECC804 an improvement over the Voskhod 6N23P?



I don't have the Voskhod 6N23P, Mordy...


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> There are other single cathode 7 pin glass tubes like the 6E6 and the 8 pin 6Y7G and don't forget the 6AH7 and 12AH7 dual triode separate cathodes
> needs a adapter. Well all of these need a adapter.
> Ken I can drive you crazy with tubes that will work don't know how they sound though.
> I wasn't thrilled with the 6AH7 but people swear by it.



The 6AH7 was very underwhelming.  Neat looking tube, but I would take any 6SN7 over it.  Maybe it needed a different operating point?


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> i have tried the 12AH7 (Tung-Sol and National Union), as well as the loctal versions, 7AF7 and 14AF7. For some reason, the 6AH7 appears to be very rare. The Tung-Sol 12AH7 (VT-207) is very similar to the TS 12SN7, a really nice tube. And I liked the loctal versions, Sylvania, better than the 7N7 and 14N7. So for the more adventurous souls out there, these might be worth a try.
> 
> I haven't tried the 6E6, but as it has the same pinout as the 6A6, maybe I will see if I can grab a few. But since the 6Y7G will require yet another adapter, maybe I will hold off... at least for now...  lol



As a driver in the OTL the 6E6 was the worst sounding tube I've ever listened to.  The 6AH7 was just flat and thin sounding, the 6E6 flat-out sounded bad.  If I had known you were interested I could have sent them to you.  I just threw them away during some aggressive spring cleaning a week ago.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

mordy said:


> Got confused from the alphabet soup of tube designations and ended up looking for a T50, but it does not look like a tube....


Funny, that picture is how I like to describe the build quality of my GOTL.

The Ken-Rad VT-231 was being talked about earlier. I'm curious what other tubes people like to pair with it? I have one and I am not blown away by it. Thought maybe I am not using the right combination with it. Any thoughts on the matter will be appreciated 

Might just leave the 13D1 in and switch it with the Ecc31 when the time arrises!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Craig, IMO it's less about what output tube it is paired with and more about what headphone you are using.  The Ken Rads are great for putting some meat on the bones of phones that sound a bit bass shy or are bright.

FWIW I thought it always had good synergy with 5998 tubes.  6AS7s and KenRad VT-231s seem to share a similar sense of 'sweetness' in the midrange that becomes a bit too embellished when added together.  The 5998 balances it out.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Xcalibur255 said:


> Craig, IMO it's less about what output tube it is paired with and more about what headphone you are using.  The Ken Rads are great for putting some meat on the bones of phones that sound a bit bass shy or are bright.
> 
> FWIW I thought it always had good synergy with 5998 tubes.  6AS7s and KenRad VT-231s seem to share a similar sense of 'sweetness' in the midrange that becomes a bit too embellished when added together.  The 5998 balances it out.


Interesting! Thanks for the input. I'm thinking the VT-231 would benefit my HD800 then. I actually  don't think I own any 5998's... Maybe should put them on the short list. My tube budget has slowed down the last couple of months. Time to ruin the wallet guys??


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> Craig, IMO it's less about what output tube it is paired with and more about what headphone you are using.  The Ken Rads are great for putting some meat on the bones of phones that sound a bit bass shy or are bright.
> 
> FWIW I thought it always had good synergy with 5998 tubes.  6AS7s and KenRad VT-231s seem to share a similar sense of 'sweetness' in the midrange that becomes a bit too embellished when added together.  The 5998 balances it out.


Hi X255,
The way you describe the K-R 6SN7/VT-231 is the way I would describe the K-R 6N7 - great bass and sweet mid range. But I am mainly listening to speakers - my KEF LS50 substitutes - Elac Debut B6.


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> Hi X255,
> The way you describe the K-R 6SN7/VT-231 is the way I would describe the K-R 6N7 - great bass and sweet mid range. But I am mainly listening to speakers - my KEF LS50 substitutes - Elac Debut B6.


Is that the all metal tube(k-r 6n7) ? Are they driver tubes or power ?


----------



## mordy

These 6N7 are all metal and driver tubes - need a  adapter ECC31 to 6SN7:


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> These 6N7 are all metal and driver tubes - need a  adapter ECC31 to 6SN7:


These are cheap tubes from what i saw.


----------



## attmci

https://www.adorama.com/aulcd3lzwtc...t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> https://www.adorama.com/aulcd3lzwtc...t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905


Good price for a new pair. Not far off what I paid for a used pair a few years ago.


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> As a driver in the OTL the 6E6 was the worst sounding tube I've ever listened to.  The 6AH7 was just flat and thin sounding, the 6E6 flat-out sounded bad.  If I had known you were interested I could have sent them to you.  I just threw them away during some aggressive spring cleaning a week ago.



In my experience, the Sylvania loctal versions of the 6AH7 and 12AH7, the 7AF7 and 14AF7, are the best of the bunch. In fact, I prefer these to the loctal versions of the 6SN7 and 12SN7, the 7N7 and 14N7, also manufactured by Sylvania.

Fortunately, the 6E6 are cheap so I will still pick up a few. But as it looks to be similar to the 6A6, which haven't impressed me all that much, my expectations are pretty low. And now that I read your impressions, my expectations are even lower. lol


----------



## JazzVinyl

Have you tried this Mazda ECC804, Ken?


----------



## attmci

leftside said:


> Good price for a new pair. Not far off what I paid for a used pair a few years ago.


So true.


----------



## JazzVinyl

9 pin driver shootout:
ECC804 vs 12AU7

ECC804 is a great sounding tube with an amazing bass note and super crystal clear treble.
Gives the 12AU7 a good run for its money.

But the 12AU7 is less forward and for me, wins, overall.

12AU7 has more L/R separation and a wider/deeper soundstage.  A little less bass and a less aggressive high end, but I like the mellower presentation of the 12AU7 a little more than than the more forward/aggressive ECC804. 

Of course, your ears, your gears and choice of Genre may make you like the ECC804 more...(I am spinning 90's Jazz).

Glenn's amp makes the most of both tubes.

12AU7 is a Philips, (Harman Kardon branded) from the 1970's
ECC804 is a Mazda, mfg date unknown, appeared to be a brand new tube, it changed a LOT during the first 10 minutes in,
but then settled down, sounded good and stayed good.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Have you tried this Mazda ECC804, Ken?



Of course I have!

I picked up a pair in 2015 and it's been few years since I last rolled them in....


----------



## attmci

JazzVinyl said:


> 9 pin driver shootout:
> ECC804 vs 12AU7
> 
> ECC804 is a great sounding tube with an amazing bass note and super crystal clear treble.
> ...


Do you think it could be *an*  Amperex Holland 12au7? Have you tried a 7316? U may love it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> Do you think it could be *an*  Amperex Holland 12au7? Have you tried a 7316? U may love it.



Now when I bought the Harman Kardon 12AU7 it was advertised as "Amperex".  

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1289#post-14170103

So Amperex and Harman Kardon, are both Phillips made...mine was made in Holland...

No 7316 here...Brent Jesse site says these are rare and expensive...so doubt I will get one unless I fall into a good deal.  Glenn's amp makes inexpensive drivers sound great...so....


----------



## attmci (Aug 15, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Now when I bought the Harman Kardon 12AU7 it was advertised as "Amperex".
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1289#post-14170103
> 
> ...


OK, forget about it. They are so overpriced now.

I am afraid the rising tube price, someday, will put an end to the old-school tube amps.............


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> We need to know the Philips production code which indicates the factory and date of manufacture. "Amperex" was a brand used by Philips to sell tubes in the US. And an "Amperex" tube could have been manufactured in any of their many factories.


Ken, most of mine are these: Δ = Manufactured in Heerlen Holland

https://www.tubemuseum.org/SearchResults.asp?Cat=20


----------



## gibosi

Yes, the triangle indicates Heerlen: ⊿

Heerlen-made tubes tend to be somewhat warm with a lush midrange. Lots of folks really like their sound....

To those who are into 12AU7, have you tried the E80CC / 6085? Some call these a souped up 12AU7. They have the same pinout and thus, can be run in both 6 and 12 volt circuits.

In the 1950's the ECC80 was manufactured in Eindhoven, Holland and Hamburg, Germany. These early tubes are easily recognized due to their "pinched waist". Production was then shifted to Heerlen around 1960 until that factory was decommissioned, sometime in the 1970's I think. And finally, production was shifted to the Amperex factory in Long Island, NY. All sound great to my ears.


----------



## mordy

Just got my adapter for 12AU7 family tubes to 6SN7. At first I got terrible hum making the tubes unlistenable. Tried several tubes with the same sorry results. To make a long story short, the problem turned out to be the socket saver. With the 12AU7 adapter in place it hummed very badly, but without the socket saver everything is fine. Don't understand why there was no hum with this socket saver and other tubes and tube adapters....
Going through my motley collection of 12XX7 tubes. Sylvania 12AU7A, 12AZ7A - did you know that red print tube designation on the boxes means replacement tubes?
Anyhow, they sound quite good with a certain clarity and very good instrument separation.
Now I am trying a Japanese Matsushiiiita (censored by Head-Fi) 12AX7A - similar sound to the above. I have couple of more to try - the differences in the GOTL are more subtle than in my previous amps and require more time to sort out. Most everything sounds very good.
Auditory overload....
If I wanted to try to find some of the best sounding 12AU7/ECC82 type tubes, what should I look for that is priced very reasonably?
Somebody mentioned Lorenz ECC82 welded long plate, but at $250 each in a lot of six they are way too pricey......


----------



## leftside

The Lorenz are very nice tubes, but you're paying a premium for the rarity value and not necessarily their sonic qualities.

These are my 5 favorite 12AU7's with the prices I paid:

1) Amperex Copenhagen long welded plates, D getter, 1953. ($100)
2) Mullard 1953 CV491 long welded black plate. (silly price - again paying for the rarity value)
3) Mullard 1955 Mitchum, long grey plates, square getter ($100)
4) Valvo/Siemens CV491 3 mica gold pins, long plates, halo getter. ($100)
5) Philips/Amperex 6085 E80CC pinched waist, D getter 1959 ($150 - pinched waist are rare and attract a premium price)

Glenn says not to bother with the 12AX7 in the GOTL.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> OK, forget about it. They are so overpriced now.
> 
> I am afraid the rising tube price, someday, will put an end to the old-school tube amps.............



That is a long way off for a Glenn owner, as he gives you "the world" with inexpensive tubes...


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> The Lorenz are very nice tubes, but you're paying a premium for the rarity value and not necessarily their sonic qualities.
> 
> These are my 5 favorite 12AU7's with the prices I paid:
> 
> ...



What was the 'silly price' of #2?


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> OK, forget about it. They are so overpriced now.
> 
> I am afraid the rising tube price, someday, will put an end to the old-school tube amps.............


I don't think so. The new production gold pin Gold Lion 12AT7, 12AX7 and KT88 I've tried are pretty good at reasonable prices.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> 5) Philips/Amperex 6085 E80CC pinched waist, D getter 1959 ($150 - pinched waist are rare and attract a premium price)



"Philips/Amperex" doesn't tell us where the tube was manufactured. And the Hamburg and Eindhoven tubes sound very different to my ears.

The tube on the left was manufactured in Eindhoven, 1955 (WK3-45B). Notice it has smooth plates and the top and bottom of the "pinch" are very well defined.

The tube on the right was manufactured in Hamburg, 1956 (WK2-D6J). Notice it has ribbed plates and the pinch is more subtle.


----------



## wazzupi

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base chrome dome sounds amazing on my Blackwood auteur !! and hd800... !! Omg if i could afford 150 dollars every 2 weeks for this tube I'd do it ! Now to find the closest cousin and cheapest so i can have it as a daily driver ive gotta put this tube in a treasure box for special days. I have yet to try the tung sol 12sl7gt black glass


----------



## wazzupi

Where is the best place(website) to find info on tubes mostly sound characteristics ?


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> The Tung Sol bgrp is the driver I use mainly now. In fact, I hardly roll my tubes now. Just the Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp with 6 x 6bxtgt. In my system and according to my ears, this is the best tone - for me.  When I refer to Tung Sol bgrp, I mean all the different variations, 6sn7gt, 12sn7gt, 6sl7gt, 12sl7gt, 6su7gty, 6f8g. The 6su7gty is the only one I didn't have the pleasure of sampling. So many times I wanted to get one but in the end, I told myself I don't have to listen to every tube.
> 
> That's a big endorsement for the TS black glass round plates, especially in the company of my other drivers namely:-
> 
> ...


The 6su7gty i didn't like and i broke one it slipped out of my hand and onto the corner of the transformer rip 60 dollars. ( i was actually trying to remove it and it was all up in there lol)


----------



## Phantaminum

wazzupi said:


> The 6su7gty i didn't like and i broke one it slipped out of my hand and onto the corner of the transformer rip 60 dollars. ( i was actually trying to remove it and it was all up in there lol)



Didn't like that tube either compared to the 6SN7 Tung Sol or Sylvania 6SN7W. In all fairness I didn't give it the full burn in time for it settle in but it started out sounding muted and flat. Hope that the tube opens up and flexes it's muscles after a good burn in.


----------



## gibosi

wazzupi said:


> Where is the best place(website) to find info on tubes mostly sound characteristics ?



The 6SN7 Reference thread. It hasn't been updated in years, but still, there is a lot of good info.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/

But again, it is important to remember that everyone has different ears and different gear. These tubes do not sound the same in every amp, with every output tube and with every headphone....


----------



## wazzupi

gibosi said:


> The 6SN7 Reference thread. It hasn't been updated in years, but still, there is a lot of good info.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/
> 
> But again, it is important to remember that everyone has different ears and different gear. These tubes do not sound the same in every amp, with every output tube and with every headphone....


Thx !!


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> The 6su7gty i didn't like and i broke one it slipped out of my hand and onto the corner of the transformer rip 60 dollars. ( i was actually trying to remove it and it was all up in there lol)



I didn't try the 6su7gty. I thought it's the premium 6sl7gt. What didn't you like about the 6su7gty?

Looking at all the driver tubes I wrote there, they are still the premier drivers ... for me. Especially ecc33 and ecc35.

So you haven't had much luck with your tubes. Broke one 6su7gty and the 6sn7w blew one channel. That Sylvania 6sn7w metal base is a mighty fine tube. It's a details king, wide soundstage and a solid hard hitting bass.


----------



## Monsterzero (Aug 16, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I didn't try the 6su7gty. I thought it's the premium 6sl7gt. What didn't you like about the 6su7gty?
> 
> Looking at all the driver tubes I wrote there, they are still the premier drivers ... for me. Especially ecc33 and ecc35.
> 
> So you haven't had much luck with your tubes. Broke one 6su7gty and the 6sn7w blew one channel. That Sylvania 6sn7w metal base is a mighty fine tube. It's a details king, wide soundstage and a solid hard hitting bass.



I have a 6SU7GTY,and liked it,but to my ears it was tonally very,very similar to the c3gs,with less gain,...clear,highly detailed,transparent.

Unfortunately the last time I tried rolling it in I had no sound whatsoever out of my amp,so I guess its now a dead soldier.

EDIT: Is there any difference between a Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and a black base?


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks for the feedback on 6su7gty Monster. That's a surprise because I didn't think there are any drivers sounding very very close to c3g. 6sn7w comes close but it's still far from it. C3g is details king on stereoids.

I would use c3g occasionally because it's unique. Only reason I don't use it much is because it exhibit noise when use with 6 x 6bx7gt... in my setup.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> I have yet to try the tung sol 12sl7gt black glass



We can fix that.... only because I feel so sorry that your 6sn7w has gone mono 

When I get back to Sydney we will talk about getting a 12sl7gt to you.

Still in Taiwan. 2 weeks without using my head-fi gear. This is the longest I have been without listening to music with my headfi and hifi. I miss it.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Thanks for the feedback on 6su7gty Monster.



Yup,I bought it from LJ upon your recommendation. Im not too bummed about it dying on me as I felt that the C3g did essentially the same job,with a bit more oomph.


----------



## wazzupi

Phantaminum said:


> Didn't like that tube either compared to the 6SN7 Tung Sol or Sylvania 6SN7W. In all fairness I didn't give it the full burn in time for it settle in but it started out sounding muted and flat. Hope that the tube opens up and flexes it's muscles after a good burn in.


Umm im not sure the length of time needed.


UntilThen said:


> I didn't try the 6su7gty. I thought it's the premium 6sl7gt. What didn't you like about the 6su7gty?
> 
> Looking at all the driver tubes I wrote there, they are still the premier drivers ... for me. Especially ecc33 and ecc35.
> 
> So you haven't had much luck with your tubes. Broke one 6su7gty and the 6sn7w blew one channel. That Sylvania 6sn7w metal base is a mighty fine tube. It's a details king, wide soundstage and a solid hard hitting bass.


I blew out two tubes, opposite channels lmao but w/e one of them was my dear Sylvania 6sn7w metal base but the guy gave me a deal on half price even though i bought it 3 months + ago and he actually gave me a better testing unit. I also got 3 12sl7gt black glass roundplates for 10 bucks each


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> We can fix that.... only because I feel so sorry that your 6sn7w has gone mono
> 
> When I get back to Sydney we will talk about getting a 12sl7gt to you.
> 
> Still in Taiwan. 2 weeks without using my head-fi gear. This is the longest I have been without listening to music with my headfi and hifi. I miss it.


Oh i have 3 because reason above this post i went ahead and just paid 120 for shipping and tax for 3 12sl7gt black glass round plates and 1 Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. Ive spent roughly 1300 on tubes alone...  I lost a Sylvania 6sn7 metal base, 1 6su7gty still have 1 left, both of my VTG FOTON VERSION 6N8S / 6SN7 had some terrible noise(s) it was unlistenable.  I broke 2 guides on my 6bx7s now 9 in total i had to do alot trial and error to get the correct combo to match channel balance. But in the end all that matters is this Sylvania 6sn7 lasting 10 years+ lol.


----------



## Phantaminum

wazzupi said:


> Umm im not sure the length of time needed.
> 
> I blew out two tubes, opposite channels lmao but w/e one of them was my dear Sylvania 6sn7w metal base but the guy gave me a deal on half price even though i bought it 3 months + ago and he actually gave me a better testing unit. I also got 3 12sl7gt black glass roundplates for 10 bucks each



Give them each minimum of 40 hours or more of burn in before making a decision on them. Usually they settle in to their final sound signature by then. Good price on those TS 12sl7s.


----------



## UntilThen

Ah I see. So you have a good 6sn7w and 3 TS 12sl7gt bgrp. All's good then.

Rule number 1 in tube rolling :-

. You never count the cost you spend on tubes.

I mean do you count how much you spend on coffee ever since you started drinking it? Or whisky?

I just bought a Kavalan blue label whisky and I hope I can get it home in one piece. This was awarded the best single mart whisky in the world in 2013.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I just bought a Kavalan blue label whisky



Theres a vice im glad I never developed a taste for. Gave up Cuban cigar (all cigars) a couple years ago too. So now its just my audio gear and salt water aquariums.
Im getting old!


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Theres a vice im glad I never developed a taste for. Gave up Cuban cigar (all cigars) a couple years ago too. So now its just my audio gear and salt water aquariums.
> Im getting old!



Yeah right. Salt water aquariums cost a bomb esp if you collect those rare fishes.

I have been keeping those rare whisky for I don't know what. The Samurai whisky bought in Japan in 2010 is still unopened and displaying in the cabinet. I drink my reds in the meantime.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Salt water aquariums cost a bomb esp if you collect those rare fishes



Indeed! I have a fetish for rare angels,wrasses and still looking for the unobtanium small crosshatch trigger. Big $$$$


----------



## wazzupi (Aug 16, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Ah I see. So you have a good 6sn7w and 3 TS 12sl7gt bgrp. All's good then.
> 
> Rule number 1 in tube rolling :-
> 
> ...


Do i count it no, but i know the rough estimate lol but i get your point im just saying i think i went overboard buying the tubes before the amp arrived is all. I would of been able to return them.


UntilThen said:


> Yeah right. Salt water aquariums cost a bomb esp if you collect those rare fishes.
> 
> I have been keeping those rare whisky for I don't know what. The Samurai whisky bought in Japan in 2010 is still unopened and displaying in the cabinet. I drink my reds in the meantime.


I've been interested in collecting Japanese whisky i might go to japan in november or next cherry blossom season XD.


----------



## wazzupi (Aug 16, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Yeah right. Salt water aquariums cost a bomb esp if you collect those rare fishes.
> 
> I have been keeping those rare whisky for I don't know what. The Samurai whisky bought in Japan in 2010 is still unopened and displaying in the cabinet. I drink my reds in the meantime.


I just realized i have a 12sl7gt black glass round plate but i paid like 58 dollars for it... Lol

I think im going to make it my main driver for now i actually really liked it it was my only 12volt so when i heard it i was surprised and enjoyed it 2nd or 3rd best but now having 4 of them i can kinda use them at my leisure.


----------



## 2359glenn

wazzupi said:


> I just realized i have a 12sl7gt black glass round plate but i paid like 58 dollars for it... Lol
> 
> I think im going to make it my main driver for now i actually really liked it it was my only 12volt so when i heard it i was surprised and enjoyed it 2nd or 3rd best but now having 4 of them i can kinda use them at my leisure.



You don't like the 13D1??


----------



## wazzupi

2359glenn said:


> You don't like the 13D1??


I do i can't find where to get more only complaint is the smaller soundstage at least in comparison to the other 2 but like i said 12sl7gt is either my 2nd or 3rd favorite. 1 more thing im getting microphonics from the one you sent me just moving my mouse across my mousepad i can hear it in my headphones.


----------



## Monsterzero

wazzupi said:


> I do i can't find where to get more only complaint is the smaller soundstage



I noticed the smaller staging as well. Otherwise a nice warm sound.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I have a 6SU7GTY,and liked it,but to my ears it was tonally very,very similar to the c3gs,with less gain,...clear,highly detailed,transparent.
> 
> Unfortunately the last time I tried rolling it in I had no sound whatsoever out of my amp,so I guess its now a dead soldier.
> 
> EDIT: Is there any difference between a Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and a black base?


Hi Mzero,
I think the only difference is price. The tube below yesterday sold for $273(!)





while this black base went for $39:




Amazing, isn't it?


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Hi Mzero,
> I think the only difference is price. The tube below yesterday sold for $273(!)
> 
> 
> ...



Hmmm....

Called Brent Jesse today and he didnt have the metal base,but had a single black base available,for 200.00 bones!
I asked him if there were any sonic differences,and he replied that he did not know.

So to your ears theres no difference?


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I noticed the smaller staging as well. Otherwise a nice warm sound.


I am listening now to the 13D1 with 6xBX - no problem at all with sound stage, but  I am listening via speakers. Love the sound; everything just sounds right.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Hmmm....
> 
> Called Brent Jesse today and he didnt have the metal base,but had a single black base available,for 200.00 bones!
> I asked him if there were any sonic differences,and he replied that he did not know.
> ...


Did not hear the metal base yet. Black base is available on eBay from $68 and up ATM.


----------



## Monsterzero (Aug 16, 2018)

mordy said:


> Did not hear the metal base yet. Black base is available on eBay from $68 and up ATM.



Ive heard neither,hence the question. Im pretty happy with my modest tube collection,but if theres room for improvement/a different take on sound im all ears,literally.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Hmmm....
> 
> Called Brent Jesse today and he didnt have the metal base,but had a single black base available,for 200.00 bones!
> I asked him if there were any sonic differences,and he replied that he did not know.
> ...



Some claim to be able to hear a difference between the three versions of the Syl 6SN7W. In my opinion, the differences must be subtle because I don't hear any. But then, my ears are old and worn out and my gear isn't in the same league as most here....


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Some claim to be able to hear a difference between the three versions of the Syl 6SN7W. In my opinion, the differences must be subtle because I don't hear any. But then, my ears are old and worn out and my gear isn't in the same league as most here....



In your opinion is there a reason to grab a black base if I already have the c3gs and round plates,both of which I like very much,depending upon my headphones?


----------



## gibosi

Yes. The 6SN7W is a top tier tube and it is different enough from the TS and C3g to justify getting one, especially given the fact that the short bottles are still very affortable. The 6SN7W spends a lot of time in my amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Yes. The 6SN7W is a top tier tube and it is different enough from the TS and C3g to justify getting one, especially given the fact that the short bottles are still very affortable. The 6SN7W spends a lot of time in my amp.



+1

Completely agree here, as well and ditto "time in".


----------



## UntilThen

Monster the question should be how many fishes you want in your salt water aquarium. The 6sn7w is a rare blue angel though.


----------



## wazzupi (Aug 16, 2018)

mordy said:


> I am listening now to the 13D1 with 6xBX - no problem at all with sound stage, but  I am listening via speakers. Love the sound; everything just sounds right.


Nothing is wrong with soundstage it's just smaller.


----------



## wazzupi

I like the 12sl7gt bgrp alot perfect complement to the 13d1.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Monster the question should be how many fishes you want in your salt water aquarium. The 6sn7w is a rare blue angel though.



Oh,you have no idea. At one point in time I had five aquariums,because some fish do not do well in certain water chemistry. Others do not co-exist with other fish,so the logical solution is: Screw it,lemme get another tank.

I will look into the black base on eBay,Brent Jesse price is too steep for me at the moment.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Did not hear the metal base yet. Black base is available on eBay from $68 and up ATM.



Used? NIB? tested "nos"? 

It was known the tube degrades from NOS after a shot time.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> "Philips/Amperex" doesn't tell us where the tube was manufactured. And the Hamburg and Eindhoven tubes sound very different to my ears.
> 
> The tube on the left was manufactured in Eindhoven, 1955 (WK3-45B). Notice it has smooth plates and the top and bottom of the "pinch" are very well defined.
> 
> The tube on the right was manufactured in Hamburg, 1956 (WK2-D6J). Notice it has ribbed plates and the pinch is more subtle.



Look like Hamburg tubes then, even though they both have "triangle symbol 9D" etched into the glass:


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Oh,you have no idea. At one point in time I had five aquariums,because some fish do not do well in certain water chemistry. Others do not co-exist with other fish,so the logical solution is: Screw it,lemme get another tank.
> 
> I will look into the black base on eBay,Brent Jesse price is too steep for me at the moment.



You nail it. You even use the right words. Water chemistry !

There needs to be a right chemistry between driver, power tubes and headphone... source as well. So don't just focus on the driver.


----------



## attmci (Aug 16, 2018)

Philips SQ/ by Siemens 5814A -3 mica- DE- NOS
Brimar ECC82 cleartop- GB- NOS
_*TS Smoke Glass*_
HP/ Amperex-- NOS
HP/ RCA- cleartop- NOS
RCA- 5814A- black plate 2 mica- NOS
RCA/ Textronix 2-matched prs "cleartop" NOS
Valvo/ Philips ECC82- dimp disc-Holland -NOS
Valvo/ Siemens E82CC- NOS
_*CBS 5814A- JHS blk plate- stirrup gtr- NOS *_
RCA cleartop- USED
_*Amperex Bugle Boy 7316- Holland- NOS *_
RCA “Command” 5814A- NOS
_*CBS 5814A- blk pl- sq gtr- NOS/Used?*_
Sylvania 5814A- USA- c.1970
National by RCA- 5814WA- black pl- US- NOS
Siemens- E82CC/6189- 2mica, halo- DE- NOS
Siemens 5814A -3 mica- USED [25
Valvo 6189- RTC- France- db gtr sup- NOS
Valvo ECC186/7316- Holland- 1965- NOS
Siemens/H E82CC/6189- 3 mica- DE-NOS


Overall my favourite:

*1.* Philips / Amperex/ Valvo ECC186 / 7316 : The Philips 7316 I think is the best all round 12AU7- superb natural refined sound, balanced, detailed, dynamic, effortless transparent bass, while not too forward. There are three versions of the 7316, and by reputation they are all good. Getting expensive. I liked the 7316 so much I bought enough of these to use in every place I use the 12AU7.

*2.* Siemens triple mica 5814A : The Siemens is energetic, precise, and dynamic, the tube I like to wake up sleepy or softish vintage. Very quiet, with an extended powerful bass. Getting expensive.

*3.* CBS 5814A: The old black plate CBS 5814A is another nice one everywhere I've tried it- vintage nad newer stuff- with a clean, detailed and dynamic sound, excellent, open bass and natural treble. Not expensive.

*4.* RCA "Command" black plate 5814A: This is surprisingly good - like most RCA tubes does everything well, with a good natural timbre and sense of authority through the whole range, while also open and quiet. Better in modern gear-as it's not as fast as the Siemens These are for me a kind of "sleeper" as they are so good, but still very inexpensive for the sound.

*5.* The ordinary early to mid 60's Philips/ Amperex/ Valvo ECC82 is really good : smooth, detailed, nice sense of openness, quiet.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Look like Hamburg tubes then, even though they both have "triangle symbol 9D" etched into the glass:



Oh, the production code doesn't lie. Either I didn't know or had forgotten that the earliest Heerlen E80CC have pinched waists. 1959 was the last year as this practice was discontinued in 1960.

Some time in the 1970s production was shifted to Long Island, NY. The distinguishing characteristic is the gold-pins were discontinued.

Also, for anyone who might be interested, Hungarian Tungsram also manufactured the E80CC. Note the holes in the sides of the plates and the rhodium pins. It is a bit more airy and not as warm as the Holland and Long Island tubes.

To the left, Amperex (Long Island), 1977. And to the right, Tungsram, 1961.


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> Philips SQ/ by Siemens 5814A -3 mica- DE- NOS
> 
> 
> *4.* RCA "Command" black plate 5814A: This is surprisingly good - like most RCA tubes does everything well, with a good natural timbre and sense of authority through the whole range, while also open and quiet. Better in modern gear-as it's not as fast as the Siemens These are for me a kind of "sleeper" as they are so good, but still very inexpensive for the sound.
> ...



The RCA black plate Command tubes are generally very good whenever I've listened to them.

Do you know the year of all those tubes you listed above? Just one year can make a lot of difference. Sometimes the company might have moved factory, or used different components between each years. For example, there are reasons why the Mullard 12AX7 goes up up up in price from 1958 to 1954.....


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Aug 17, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi Mzero,
> I think the only difference is price. The tube below yesterday sold for $273(!)
> 
> 
> ...



Don't be mislead by the fact that they are both "W" tubes.  These are different tubes internally and they do sound different.  I had a shorty black base W like the one in your bottom picture and gave it away a long time ago because I didn't think it sounded very good.

Sylvania had more variants than any other maker, including some that are nearly impossible to tell apart visually.  I would wager 75% of the tubes sold on eBay as "Bad Boys" are not, for example.


----------



## mordy

Here is a very good sounding bargain 6SN7 tube that nobody talks about. It is a mid 60's RCA 6SN7GTB. Just listened to it in the GOTL and it sounds better than the Sylvania Bad Boy 6SN7GT (don't know if mine is the real thing-will show a picture below).
I always liked this tube and it does not disappoint in the GOTL. What makes it visually different than other similar RCA tubes is a thin horizontal heater wire that is kind of hard to spot in many of the seller's pictures:






Found a current ad - if you feel adventurous try a low ball offer; I'll really like to hear from somebody else what they think about these unsung heroes:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RC...033131?hash=item1a409abfab:g:WWMAAOSws0JaWhRI
Here is a picture of a 1953 Sylvania 6SN7GT. Most of the glass is covered by the getter flash. It has black plates with three holes. Is this the real thing?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> .....the Sylvania Bad Boy 6SN7GT (don't know if mine is the real thing-will show a picture below).
> I always liked this tube and it does not disappoint in the GOTL.
> Here is a picture of a 1953 Sylvania 6SN7GT. Most of the glass is covered by the getter flash. It has black plates with three holes. Is this the real thing?



No.



According to the 6SN7 Identification thread:  
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-6sn7-identification-guide.209782/

*Sylvania 6SN7GT 1952 “Bad Boy” *
_Also JAN-CHS-6SN7GT
Made only from late 1951 (‘1-48’ examples seen) to 1952. Differs slightly in construction from ‘regular’ Sylvania rectangular top mica 6SN7GTs. Re-labeled bad boys are known to exist. [I have seen this tube with early 1953 dates]_
Base: black, green labels marked ‘2-XX’ (where XX is the week of the year)
Glass: clear
Plates: black, T-plate with 3 holes per plate
Getter: bottom, foil, flashing can extend up to 1/3 of way up tube
Top mica: rectangular with 3 spikes on each of the shorter edges
Other significant features: bottom mica is rectangular. When seen, date codes are vertically arranged (from top to bottom) ‘YWW’ with Y underlined. Y = last digit of year, WW = week number of year.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Here is a very good sounding bargain 6SN7 tube that nobody talks about. It is a mid 60's RCA 6SN7GTB. Just listened to it in the GOTL and it sounds better than the Sylvania Bad Boy 6SN7GT (don't know if mine is the real thing-will show a picture below).
> I always liked this tube and it does not disappoint in the GOTL. What makes it visually different than other similar RCA tubes is a thin horizontal heater wire that is kind of hard to spot in many of the seller's pictures:
> 
> 
> ...



That RCA with the filament jumped across the top might be made by GE they made many 6SN7s like this.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> That RCA with the filament jumped across the top might be made by GE they made many 6SN7s like this.


I have a pair of these tubes. One is labeled RCA with date code BP (7/67),  and the other one is labeled Hoffman Easy-Vision with EIA code 274 (RCA) and dated 2/65.
No sand blasted dots on glass.


----------



## mordy (Aug 17, 2018)

gibosi said:


> No.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Gibosi,
Thanks for the answer. I think Oskari would appreciate the brevity.....
I guess that I just have a "good boy" Sylvania then. Where does the term "bad boy" come from? Sounds like some kind of marketing hype....


----------



## myphone

mordy said:


> Hi Gibosi,
> Thanks for the answer. I think Oskari would appreciate the brevity.....
> I guess that I just have a "good boy" Sylvania then. Where does the term "bad boy" come from? Sounds like some kind of marketing hype....



Mordy, the Sylvania 6SN7GT is the "real Sylvania chrome top" .


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Aug 17, 2018)

@mordy

Your third picture, of the Sylvania with the getter flash reaching the base of the tube, is a personal favorite of mine.

Not everybody agrees with me that it's good though.  It seems to change behavior quite a bit depending on the amp it is in too, more so than most 6SN7 I have heard.  As always trust your own ears.  You can get these fairly cheap though.  They are worth trying.

I did some research into these once upon a time on the suspicion that these might have been made on the same factory tooling as the metal base W tubes, but it's just a hypothesis of mine that's unproven.

Another characteristic of these is they have shorter than normal bases, which makes the glass appear taller.  But unless the getter flash actually reaches the bottom of that short base and the tube has a dirty smoky appearance you don't have the one I'm thinking of.  There are similar looking tubes that have a somewhat "cleaner" looking getter flash that are very easy to mistake for these, and IMO they do not sound nearly as good.  Don't sound very good period in fact.


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


> Mordy, the Sylvania 6SN7GT is the "real Sylvania chrome top" .


Hi MP,
I have other Sylvania 6SN7 tubes with an even, large getter flash - this is also some kind of a chrome top - what are they called?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Yup.  Just like there are "real" BadBoys there are also "real" ChromeTops.  It all becomes kind of exhausting after a while to be honest.  If you have a few tubes you enjoy that make you happy then my advice is to not sweat it.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Can’t believe I was so close to another Glenn lover!!!


----------



## mordy (Aug 17, 2018)

Xcalibur255 said:


> @mordy
> 
> Your third picture, of the Sylvania with the getter flash reaching the base of the tube, is a personal favorite of mine.
> 
> ...





Xcalibur255 said:


> @mordy
> 
> Your third picture, of the Sylvania with the getter flash reaching the base of the tube, is a personal favorite of mine.
> 
> ...



Hi X255,
It appears to me that the one I have matches your description. The getter flash sort of runs all the way down, and there are parts of the glass that have a milky appearance.
And after I got the GOTL, I realize that the same tube can sound different in different amps. And the same goes for headphones. With my other amps I preferred the HD650
but with the GOTL I like the T1 better.
Had a scare with the T1 today. Usually when I put in a new tube to roll there is this protest of being woken up after slumbering for many decades - creaks, pops, pings and hummmming. I had the T1s on and after a loud pop there was no sound in the left channel in the headphone. I was berating myself why I wasn't careful and could have used my $12 headphones. A couple of hundred bucks down the drain....Went to the Beyerdynamic site to see how much a left driver would cost. When they would not quote a price I got nervous.
Plugged in the phones again - same problem. Oh well.
Plugged them in again and everything worked - yippeee! Until I realized I was listening to the HD650!
T1 again - no luck....
Waited some more, looked intently at the earcup, and gave it a tender spanking. Plugged it in, and it is working again - phew, what an ordeal....
I guess that anybody using tube amps for a couple years have traveled a road littered with smashed tubes (that just fell out of your hand or rolled off a desk), broken guide pins, blown fuses, or worse, fried amps, and blown headphones. Or is it only me?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Or is it only me?



It's only you. lol


----------



## Xcalibur255

I highly recommend plugging in cheap guinea pig headphones after you have just rolled in new tubes before you plug in anything nice; to make sure the tubes are behaving themselves.  Both Glenn and I have had nice headphones permanently destroyed by mis-behaving tubes (the 5998).  When my AKG K701 when "pop" I pulled the earpad cover off to find that the driver had been _stuffed into the plastic slots of the driver guard cover_.  There was no gently spanking it back out.    I was really thankful I wasn't wearing them at the time.  Glenn was not so lucky when it happened to him.


----------



## gibosi

A metal Ken-Rad 6N7 arrived here recently, so I pulled out the Lorenz C3g and rolled it in. On first impression, I don't like it as much as the Lorenz. And it just may be that it doesn't get along all that well with the currently installed Fivre 6BX7GT and GEC U18/20. But to be fair, I need to give it more time.


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> I highly recommend plugging in cheap guinea pig headphones after you have just rolled in new tubes before you plug in anything nice; to make sure the tubes are behaving themselves.  Both Glenn and I have had nice headphones permanently destroyed by mis-behaving tubes (the 5998).  When my AKG K701 when "pop" I pulled the earpad cover off to find that the driver had been _stuffed into the plastic slots of the driver guard cover_.  There was no gently spanking it back out.    I was really thankful I wasn't wearing them at the time.  Glenn was not so lucky when it happened to him.



I don't promote the use of 5998s  no matter how good they sound I had another one do it but it didn't damage the head phone.
This was a 2399/5998 maybe bad luck but to many of these tubes arc over. I don't even like putting the 5998 switch in amps anymore
because it promotes the use of them.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> I don't promote the use of 5998s  no matter how good they sound I had another one do it but it didn't damage the head phone.
> This was a 2399/5998 maybe bad luck but to many of these tubes arc over. I don't even like putting the 5998 switch in amps anymore
> because it promotes the use of them.



I am using a pair of clear-top 5998 all the time. Let's see when they will destroy my 800/lcd-3/..... 

I did have bad 5998 before I put them in the amp. For you tube rollers, you need a cheap tube tester.


----------



## gibosi

For sure, if you are going to use the 5998, give them plenty of time to heat up to their normal operating temperature and stabilize before connecting your headphones. I figure you can't be too careful when it comes to protecting your ears and gear.

And a bit of information that might be interesting to some...  "No. 3002399", or "2399" for short, was an IBM part number. IBM used tons of these tubes in their early vacuum tube computers. And the least that Tung-Sol/Chatham could do was put IBM's internal part number on them before shipping them out.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> I don't promote the use of 5998s  no matter how good they sound I had another one do it but it didn't damage the head phone.
> This was a 2399/5998 maybe bad luck but to many of these tubes arc over. I don't even like putting the 5998 switch in amps anymore
> because it promotes the use of them.


I want the 5998 switch  I have 6 of these to try out with the amp. Like gibosi, I turn the amp on first, and then leave for a few minutes before plugging in the headphones - especially with newly purchased tubes.


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> I am using a pair of clear-top 5998 all the time.


The clear-top/bottom getters appear to be rarer than the chrome top/top getter version.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 19, 2018)

I leave my amp on for about 20-30 minutes before plugging my headphone in when using the 5998 tubes.
These tubes will make a pinging noise for awhile when you first turn the amp on.
I have been very lucky with these tubes so far...I have three sets and all are very quiet in my amp and they are also just about the best sounding power tubes for me.
The 5998 power tubes and the C3g driver tubes will power my planar cans really well...the ZMF Ori.

The 6336A/B tubes power them well also, but the tone of the tubes does not come close to the 5998 tubes IMO....YMMV

If one is afraid of the 5998 tubes however and this is completely justified, I can use the Chatham 6AS7G tubes with the C3g tubes and power the Ori just fine and it still sounds very good.
 


I would rate the Chatham 6AS7G tubes a notch above the RCA 6AS7G...but the RCA 6AS7G is pretty good in its own right....warmer sounding.
If it is branded Sylvania or GE it is still made by RCA I believe.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> No.





mordy said:


> Hi Gibosi,
> Thanks for the answer. I think Oskari would appreciate the brevity.....


Yes.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> I have been very lucky with these tubes so far...I have three sets and all are very quiet in my amp and they are also just about the best sounding power tubes for me.
> The 5998 power tubes and the C3g driver tubes will power my planar cans really well...the ZMF Ori.


Glad to hear!


----------



## leftside

Yesterday evening, and this morning I reinstalled my cart after getting it back from Soundsmith, and setup the turntable. I used to be a total newbie at this, but after reading the manual, watching lot's of YouTube videos and asking questions on the forums, I think I've finally got the hang of setting the VTF, VTA, azimuth, antiskate, etc. With 16 tube upgrades (2 in the MC stage of the preamp, 4 in the linestage of the preamp and 5 in each amp) I can honestly say I've never been happier with my analog rig - even if it takes a lot of work to setup. 

When using the DAC for the first month of the cart being away serviced, I thought I could handle not having a turntable. But, after a couple of months I started to miss it, and after 3 months I really missed it. There are still some albums that sound better on vinyl than digital. Especially some of the older LPs. They just don't seem to have done a good job of transferring to digital for some of these releases. The depth and bass in particular.

Looking forward to the sun going down and pulling out the headphones and the Glenn 300B


----------



## UntilThen

There's nothing wrong with 5998. Like any tubes, there will be ones that are lemons. Unfortunately for 5998 because they are popular and in demand, you will find some dud ones for sale. My first 5998, I saw a flash of fire go up in the tube and it died before my eyes. That was on a Darkvoice 336se. Got a refund promptly. That was a used tube and being the first I didn't want to spend much so chose a cheap but very used tube. Then I bought a brand new pair for USD$239 and that is an amazing pair. Still use it occasionally now. Great tone. I love the 5998 and I use the switch always. To do away with this switch would be a pity because it works well with 6336b tubes too. I reckon it's one of Glenn OTL amp speciality.

Oh ... the sextet 6bx7 / 6bl7 power tubes are the reason I don't use my other expensive and very good power tubes much now because 6 of these 6b*7 provide the right blend of definition, slam, refinement and power for all the headphones I've used, namely HD800, LCD-2f, Eikon and Atticus. The last 2 I've since sold. Regret I did selling them but I can't possibly use 4 headphones, so now down to HD800 and LCD-2f but really for me, esp with Glenn OTL, I only need the HD800. This is a magical pairing. I await the arrival of the DNA Stratus to hear for myself which of these 2 amps is better with HD800. I suspect they will be both very good with HD800 but with different flavours.

After 2 weeks away from using my head-fi setup, I came home yesterday and in the evening, I swapped the driver tube to my cherished Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. My power tubes are 6 x GE 6bx7gt. The music that hits my ears are incredible sounding. The SIA earbuds that I have been using on the plane is rubbish compared to this. A very simple setup I have now. Just Yggdrasil > Glenn OTL amp with the aforementioned tubes > HD800. This is pretty much an end game setup. To my ears at least. It's gorgeous sounding.

Enjoy your music !

This amp is not even one year old. It sounds so good I still recommend it to anyone wanting a top notch OTL amp. Someone from the DNA Stratus camp wanted to buy it from me but I am not selling. Not when I have all my favourite drivers to use it with.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> There are still some albums that sound better on vinyl than digital. Especially some of the older LPs. They just don't seem to have done a good job of transferring to digital for some of these releases. The depth and bass in particular.



Amen!

I have been saying exactly this, for DECADES....


----------



## UntilThen

If I thought that the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base is the queen of 6sn7 drivers and it did indeed knock me out with it's stunning sound quality, I was speechless when I swap in the Mullard ECC33. It's been a while since I tube roll my drivers.

It's hard to articulate the sound of ECC33 but it sounds better than the 6sn7w to my ears. 3 dimensional and more forward. Clarity and details and the seductive tone. 

All this while I am using 6 x GE 6bx7gt. Had the Tung Sol and Fivre 6bx7gt still but I am quite content to use the GEs. 

This OTL amp is a classic in it's ability to produce such tones with these tubes.

Note:- I have 2 Brimar 13D1 and they sounded very good to me but in these other drivers' company......  ..... there is no comparison.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Amen!
> 
> I have been saying exactly this, for DECADES....



I'll be saying this for the next 2 weeks. Half way mark of my vacation. The hard part of travelling is over. Now for the relaxing part of listening to my LPs.

I am very content using Yggdrasil with GOTL for headphones but with speakers, that's where I will crank up the Rega. Vinyl sounds special and I've been very selective with my LP purchase. I reckon I have the good ones but my friend who came over with his original recordings of Miles Davis .... with it's pops and crackles and that cost $800 to $1000 an album... well he thinks that's the real deal. I am not so extravagant. I'm happy with my $68 special edition of War On Drugs - A Deeper Understanding. Plus the 20 odd classical albums bought from a friend in mint condition.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 20, 2018)

After spending a few days at this cabin, in Grand Lake, Colorado....




I came home and decided it was time to try something different in the GOTL...

Went for C3gS and Mullard 6080's....

Very nice!


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I only need the HD800. This is a magical pairing. I await the arrival of the DNA Stratus to hear for myself which of these 2 amps is better with HD800. I suspect they will be both very good with HD800 but with different flavours.



Hello UT...

The Beyerdynamic T1 is now completely off your radar?


----------



## UntilThen

I sold off the T1 before I got GOTL. It's probably a good pairing with the amp too but HD800 sounds just right to my ears now. If you love details and I know you do, these are probably the best 2 headphones ..... barring Focal Utopia.  Ah I forgot the ZMF Eikon and probably the Auteur too but it's hard to match the HD800 for details and soundstage ..... and now with GOTL, it's got real bass. No kidding.

I sold off my T1 for $400 but it's a used unit. It's sold off very quickly. 

Now I'm trying to sell my Axis Voicebox S super monitor speakers. Then I'm going to offload Auralic Aries Le and NAD M51. Good gear but I hate to see them used lightly.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> After spending a few days at this cabin, in Grand Lake, Colorado....



I tell you what. I'm willing to trade all my gear for that cabin. Then I will put some really big tower speakers and megawatts amp there and I'll crank up the volume and let it rip.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I tell you what. I'm willing to trade all my gear for that cabin. Then I will put some really big tower speakers and megawatts amp there and I'll crank up the volume and let it rip.



It is quite remote...you won't have any upset neighbors


----------



## Redmetal1897

Been avoiding this thread to avoid tube temptation while my OTL was being built  Seem's like I am getting close now though! 

Quick question for ZMF Auteur user's, from what I can gather the 6bx7's seems the way to with the OTL and the Auteurs? I am planning to stick to what Glenn sends me (3DG4 rectifier, two 6H13C output tubes and a 13D1 driver) and maybe one more set of tubes. The 2xC3G+6x6BL7's were pretty popular here when I was around earlier in the year. Is that still the case? Any other recommended combo's for the Auteurs?

Thanks!


----------



## 2359glenn

I am not one to spend big bucks on tubes. I have been listening to the Auteurs with the 13D1 and six 6BX7s sounds great maybe bested buy
C3gs driving the six 6BX7s. These are all low cost tubes C3g being the most expensive $50 each.


----------



## gibosi

Since you wish to keep it simple, I suggest following Glenn's advice. For drivers, 13D1 and C3g, and for output tubes, six 6BX7 or 6BL7. I find the 6BL7 to be a bit warmer than the 6BX7, but since they are inexpensive, try both to see which you prefer. In terms of brand, you really can't go wrong with GE, cheap and sound great.

Enjoy!


----------



## gibosi

But of course, I am not one who tries to keep things simple... lol 

Given that Mordy considers the metal Ken-Rad 6N7 to be a best buy, I thought I would pick up an earlier Ken-Rad 6A6 for comparison. Yes, these are the same tubes, electrically, just different envelopes and bases. In fact, this 6A6 was manufactured in 1941 and the 6N7 in 1943. So Ken-Rad was manufacturing these, plus the 6N7G, all at about the same time, but of course, for different customers.

And a bit of trivia. You might be able to make out "13-" embossed into the side of the 6N7 base. This was Ken-Rad's code for "6N7". Given that the metal tubes all looked essentially the same, these codes could be very useful in figuring out the type number and origin of a repainted, rusty or rebranded tube.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> But of course, I am not one who tries to keep things simple... lol
> 
> Given that Mordy considers the metal Ken-Rad 6N7 to be a best buy, I thought I would pick up an earlier Ken-Rad 6A6 for comparison. Yes, these are the same tubes, electrically, just different envelopes and bases. In fact, this 6A6 was manufactured in 1941 and the 6N7 in 1943. So Ken-Rad was manufacturing these, plus the 6N7G, all at about the same time, but of course, for different customers.
> 
> And a bit of trivia. You might be able to make out "13-" embossed into the side of the 6N7 base. This was Ken-Rad's code for "6N7". Given that the metal tubes all looked essentially the same, these codes could be very useful in figuring out the type number and origin of a repainted, rusty or rebranded tube.


Hi Gibosi,
Interesting - just checked my tube and it says 13-M embossed on the base. M probably means Military(?).
Remember my joke about the T-50? Got me interested in the communication system in a WW2 tank. All tubes of course. In this video you can see that most tubes are metal, and the ST tube is a direct heated 807.


Anyhow, how do you like the sound now of the K-R 6N7 and it's big brother 6A6? Did you find a good match?


----------



## mordy

Band-aid for microphonic tubes and humming?

The GOTL is much more sensitive than my previous tube amps and you need good tubes. Some tubes that never exhibited problems in the past are microphonic in the GOTL.
Did some research. Some people claim that those little silicon rings help (a couple of bucks a piece for audio use, but should cost much less for say automotive use), while others claim that they don't work. Then there are fancy tube damper set ups that cost much more. Some swear by them and others at them....
Found a youtube video where a guy claims that a high temperature silicon repair tape helps better than rings for microphonic tubes, and besides, it is much cheaper.




And if it didn't work, maybe I could use it for fixing something in the house or in the car. Paid less than $2 from China for a roll.
This tape is not really sticky, but if you peel off the backing it sort of fuses and melts together with the other end of the tape. It is flexible and stretchable. To use it on a tube you measure out the circumference of the tube and cut off a piece smaller than that since you want to stretch it for a tight fit on the glass.



No, this is not a BGRP tube, but a 12AT7 with the tape applied.
This tube hummed audibly, and after applying the tape, the hum was reduced. Did not disappear, but only appeared at a higher volume, making the tube usable.
On other larger tubes it did not help, but there were different problems with those - not hum, but large popping noises and crackling.
So this method of using high temperature silicone rubber repair tape may have some uses. A roll should last a long time and is much cheaper than silicone rings.
Even Mrs Xuling suggested using silicone damping.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Even Mrs Xuling suggested using silicone damping.



You mean:  Mrs Ling Xu...

"Ling" is her first name and her surname is "Xu"

"The *Chinese* will state their *last name first*, followed by the given name (may be one or two syllables). For example, Liu Jianguo, in *Chinese* would be Mr. Jianguo Liu using the Western style. Never call someone by only his or her *last name*. Unless specifically asked, do not call someone by his or her *first* name."


...says: VinylJazz...


----------



## mordy

Mrs Ling Xu works for Samsung and the adapters are a side line.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Mrs Ling Xu works for Samsung and the adapters are a side line.



Is that right?   Wow, she sells so many, I figured she was full time!


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Anyhow, how do you like the sound now of the K-R 6N7 and it's big brother 6A6? Did you find a good match?



The 6A6 arrived this morning and I haven't had a chance to try it. Hope get to it in the next several days.

Unfortunately, the last several days have been rather hectic, so for now, I just want to chill out to the enchanting sound of the Lorenz/Fivre/GEC trio.


----------



## gibosi

Hey Glenn,

Have you ever played around with the 6JD5, a high power, high mu triode? I recently read an article suggesting that when configured in a "forward-grid-bias" operation, using a small cathode follower to drive the forward-biased grid, these just might work quite well in audio applications. And perhaps most importantly for a Glenn amp, they are cheap.


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 20, 2018)

These  tubes similar to 6HV5 beam triode do sound good but need high voltage to operate.
I was going to build a amp that uses 2 of these with no driver. they have high gain 300 so was going to make 1 tube amps.
Just a 6HV5 and a output transformer. Never built it I have the output transformers with a 10K ohm primary.
No time for experiments anymore maybe some day fun 1000 volts on the plate.


----------



## JazzVinyl

ECC31 and Mullard 6080's get tonight's official 'stamp of approval' 

Jazz guitarist John Abercrombie also approves.

Big bass, super warm, intimate and involving, soundstage...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mr Scofield and alumni also dig the tube compliment, this evening.....


----------



## mordy

Does anybody know if there is a 12V version of the Sylvania 6SN7W?

Do you think these 1945 tubes are similar?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Awfully quiet in here.  Hope everyone is okay.

Switched to the Philips 12AU7 w/the Mullard 6080's tonight...not as syrupy as with the ECC31 but a more expansive soundstage and a more even freq curve, overall...

Mr Beckenstein thinks it's alright....


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 22, 2018)

mordy said:


> Does anybody know if there is a 12V version of the Sylvania 6SN7W?
> 
> 
> Do you think these 1945 tubes are similar?



I have had a search in place for years...never had a hit ion a Syl 12SN7W...so if they exist, none have been for sale on that Auction site, for a long time.

The others depicted - I have a couple of these.  They are very good tubes (I have both the 6 and 12v versions) but they are not quite in the same league as the Syl 6SN7W.....


----------



## UntilThen

I am onto ECC35 and 6 x GE 6bx7gt now. This seems to be a bit better than ECC33 to my ears.

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base is quite comfortable in these company. A bit leaner but the details is first class.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I am onto ECC35 and 6 x GE 6bx7gt now. This seems to be a bit better than ECC33 to my ears.
> 
> Sylvania 6sn7w metal base is quite comfortable in these company. A bit leaner but the details is first class.



Of these three drivers....which one is the most rare?


----------



## UntilThen

ECC33 and ECC35 are equally rare. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base NOS are just as rare now. ECC33 commands the highest price though. Langrex has some for sale at a staggering GBP 250 each. 
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ECC33-M...253320?hash=item48b189f388:g:NwEAAOSweUVbdBJM

In comparison, I paid GBP 175 for the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base from Langrex.

I got mine ECC35 used, at an affordable price of $90 from LJ and it turn out to be the prime cut of the lot. I paid a lot less on the ECC33 than Langrex's price from an Aussie seller. It's not Mullard but branded Haltron but essentially the same.

I am using the Tung Sol 12sn7gt bgrp now. Cost is $32. Tube is in mint condition. This is great sounding tube. One of the best. If you look at those who gave their opinions on the first page of the 6SN7 Reference, most prefer the bgrp over the Svylania 6sn7w. I think that they are equally good. You can clearly hear they are different. Any differences I described are minutely different but discernible nonetheless. 6sn7w is leaner and more vivid sounding. Details stands out more. Bgrp is lusher and more saturated in it's presentation.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> ECC33 and ECC35 are equally rare. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base NOS are just as rare now. ECC33 commands the highest price though. Langrex has some for sale at a staggering GBP 250 each.
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ECC33-M...253320?hash=item48b189f388:g:NwEAAOSweUVbdBJM
> 
> In comparison, I paid GBP 175 for the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base from Langrex.
> ...


Agreed, now i must buy ecc35


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> Agreed, now i must buy ecc35


https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-OB-SYL...834259?hash=item4b4b4c3b13:g:RP0AAOSw2xRYUAVL


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 22, 2018)

Wow Mordy how is that so expensive.

That is what the seller says 

Mei Li means beautiful.

*Sylvania 6SN7A / W Metal Base kingly, There was a lovely midrange, extended high-frequency and special "Mei Li", regardless of location, dynamic, analytical and hierarchical interpretation of the sound field, and the performance of the human voice charm and sense of the scene, are sufficient to exemplary, which is the production of tubes Sylvania detached arcane.*


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> Agreed, now i must buy ecc35



I see you're still in the buying mood.  

Message @Liu Junyuan . She might have a NOS ECC35 for $200 if that is not already sold.


----------



## UntilThen

I will listen to my RCA 5691 again. Didn't spend too much time with it.

This is TubeDepot's review of it. 

The 5691 RCA Red Base is the Holy Grail of 6SL7 tube types. Built to last 10,000+ hours, this tube is rich and melodic with an overall smoothness that can't be beat. Take this chance to own the best 6SL7 variant on the planet. We have multiple brands on hand, but all are RCA *made* Red Base 5691.


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-OB-SYL...834259?hash=item4b4b4c3b13:g:RP0AAOSw2xRYUAVL


But that isn't a ecc35 is it ?


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I will listen to my RCA 5691 again. Didn't spend too much time with it.
> 
> This is TubeDepot's review of it.
> 
> The 5691 RCA Red Base is the Holy Grail of 6SL7 tube types. Built to last 10,000+ hours, this tube is rich and melodic with an overall smoothness that can't be beat. Take this chance to own the best 6SL7 variant on the planet. We have multiple brands on hand, but all are RCA *made* Red Base 5691.


Hi UT,
Speaking about expensive tubes, I am thoroughly enjoying my Baldwin/Sylvania 12AU7A (JV's recommendation) with 6xBX. Paid $11.50 for a pair including shipping a few days ago.
In Oskari's spirit, here is my "verbose" review:
*Sweet and Silky.



*


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> But that isn't a ecc35 is it ?


Hi W,
Not at all, just another kingly tube (Sylvania 6SN7W) found in the upper price stratosphere.....But as you can see from my previous post, a great sounding tube in the GOTL does not have to be expensive at all.
I think Glenn stated that he designed his amp to sound good with inexpensive tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-OB-SYL...834259?hash=item4b4b4c3b13:g:RP0AAOSw2xRYUAVL



$459 for a 6SN7 has everyone gone crazy.


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> Hi W,
> Not at all, just another kingly tube (Sylvania 6SN7W) found in the upper price stratosphere.....But as you can see from my previous post, a great sounding tube in the GOTL does not have to be expensive at all.
> I think Glenn stated that he designed his amp to sound good with inexpensive tubes.


I agree i have 10-20 dollar tubes that sound great but i love my Sylvania 6sn7w chrome top metal base nothing sounds like it.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> $459 for a 6SN7 has everyone gone crazy.


Yes.
How about this anode cap?




https://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-Valv...U32-832-FU32/253824768863?hash=item3b19229b5f


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> Yes.
> How about this anode cap?
> 
> 
> ...


Wt f


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Yes.
> How about this anode cap?
> 
> 
> ...



What???? not even insulated a death trap for tubes running on high voltage.


----------



## myphone

mordy said:


> Does anybody know if there is a 12V version of the Sylvania 6SN7W?
> 
> Do you think these 1945 tubes are similar?



Mordy, I believe these are 12 V version of Sylvania 6SN7GT. I have never seen a 12SN7W.


----------



## myphone

2359glenn said:


> I don't promote the use of 5998s  no matter how good they sound I had another one do it but it didn't damage the head phone.
> This was a 2399/5998 maybe bad luck but to many of these tubes arc over. I don't even like putting the 5998 switch in amps anymore
> because it promotes the use of them.



So far I have been lucky with 5998/421A/6089/6AS7 tubes, I treat them with heater current on only for 3 days before turn on high voltage. A process I learn from owning Atma-sphere OTL power amplifier.


----------



## UntilThen

First and foremost, tubes must be quiet for me. Like dead silence. 

I had Brimar 13D1 with 6 x GE 6bx7gt and there's an annoying hum. Quite loud. These same 6 x GE 6bx7gt were quiet with my other drivers. So it's not the power tubes problem.

It's not the Brimar 13D1 problem either. I have 2 bought from Langrex at a cheap price. So I have the 13D1 paired with a pair of equally cheap Svetlana 6h13c. It's dead silent now and good tone too.


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


> Mordy, I believe these are 12 V version of Sylvania 6SN7GT. I have never seen a 12SN7W.


Hi my phone,
Is there any possibility that these tubes will sound as good as the 6SN7W?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Daanish said:


> Been avoiding this thread to avoid tube temptation while my OTL was being built  Seem's like I am getting close now though!
> 
> Quick question for ZMF Auteur user's, from what I can gather the 6bx7's seems the way to with the OTL and the Auteurs? I am planning to stick to what Glenn sends me (3DG4 rectifier, two 6H13C output tubes and a 13D1 driver) and maybe one more set of tubes. The 2xC3G+6x6BL7's were pretty popular here when I was around earlier in the year. Is that still the case? Any other recommended combo's for the Auteurs?
> 
> Thanks!


I was very impressed with the 6bx7's, and that was with the HD800. I now want to buy some C3G's and those now for my Auteurs. Thanks a lot for making me think about it again! ha

Tubes are a slippery slope for sure. You can't ever un hear some tube combos.... You just forget until it gets brought up again, then BAM, you're on Ebay breakin the bank.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 23, 2018)

Tonight we're back to 6x 6BL7 and the TS 12SN7 BGRP and a wonderfull Polish Trio with guest saxophone player:

*Marcin Wasilewski Trio W/ Joakim Milder: Spark Of Life*

*Wow, what a presentation...bass to die for.

Can hear the gents breathing as they transcribe the Jazz charts.  I am transfixed by the realism of the illusion that I am in the room, I can "see them" as well as hear them.  Precise soundstage is well controlled and the tension mounts and ebbs as the chart indicates...

Stand out tunes are:
The Spark Of Life
Do Rycerzy, Do Szlachty, Do Mieszcan
Sleep Safe and Warm
and
Actual Proof

You can tell that Marcin has a piano with cold rolled hammers, as he has a range of timbre in the low notes...an attribute absent In Pianos with hot rolled hammers (which are far more common due to lower manufacturing costs).  

What a way to relieve the stress of the work day than listening to a group of young Polish jazz genius'...

Thank you, Glenn!!






 



*


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> $459 for a 6SN7 has everyone gone crazy.



Ha....whenever two of these tubes cost more than your amp, there is something really wrong.
So hard for me to believe someone would buy that for that price.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Ha....whenever two of these tubes cost more than your amp, there is something really wrong.
> So hard for me to believe someone would buy that for that price.



Guess the seller is testing the "money is no object" theory    

.


----------



## Monsterzero

MTMECraig said:


> I was very impressed with the 6bx7's, and that was with the HD800. I now want to buy some C3G's and those now for my Auteurs.



C3Gs are very detailed. They sound really good with the Atticus,but I find that with other headphones that already have some energy up top things can get a bit bright.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
It is really strange that not only do you need good synergy between tubes for good sound, you also need good synergy that it should not hum.
Saw this slogan somewhere:
_*"If they make it, it hums."
*_


----------



## Redmetal1897 (Aug 23, 2018)

I caved and bought the 6BX7's lol. They are on their way. I knew I should have stayed away from this thread!!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 23, 2018)

Daanish said:


> I caved and bought the 6BX7's lol. They are on their way. I knew I should have stayed away from this thread!!



Down the rabbit hole, you go!   I like the 6BL7's better than 6BX7's   

.


----------



## wazzupi

JazzVinyl said:


> Down the rabbit hole, you go!   I like like 6BL7's better than 6BX7's
> 
> .


Any brand in particular


----------



## Althalus

2359glenn said:


> $459 for a 6SN7 has everyone gone crazy.



It's not that crazy, searching for 3dg4's, I found on ALIE someone asking 699,81 Euro for a 3dg4. I made a Screenshot. 








wazzupi said:


> Any brand in particular



Wazzupi, I can not help you, I have bought 6 Sylvania plates but now have to wait till Glenn tells me that he wants to build my gotl. However I do remember that it's your chain that is important. Gibosi likes them , others are no fan and prefer GE.


----------



## Althalus

Althalus said:


> It's not that crazy, searching for 3dg4's, I found on ALIE someone asking 699,81 Euro for a 3dg4. I made a Screenshot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Althalus

Something went wrong,  open the picture ,press the link and than click on the top picture, Google will then show you the original post on ALIE .


----------



## Redmetal1897

wazzupi said:


> Any brand in particular



RCA Black plates from vacuumtubes.net. I think you may have got yours from there too!


----------



## 2359glenn

Althalus said:


> It's not that crazy, searching for 3dg4's, I found on ALIE someone asking 699,81 Euro for a 3dg4. I made a Screenshot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



699 E for a 3DG4 these tubes should cost about $3 I used to get them for $1
And replacement for 5U4 is a lie they will not work except for in my amps were the socket is wired to take them and 5U4s.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> C3Gs are very detailed. They sound really good with the Atticus,but I find that with other headphones that already have some energy up top things can get a bit bright.



Yes, but not a good enough reason to avoid the C3g. A darker rectifier and/or output tubes can often tone down the brightness.


----------



## Monsterzero

Im running a Mullard GZ32 and 6x 6bl7s...dunno how you would categorize that roll,bright/warm/neutral.


----------



## mordy

Daanish said:


> RCA Black plates from vacuumtubes.net. I think you may have got yours from there too!


You really have to look carefully at those 6BX7 tubes. I have Westinghouse, RCA and Philco(Sylvania), and all of them have the tell tale little sandblasted dots on the glass, which means that they were made by GE.
Have not compared the GE tubes to other brands, but they sound excellent in the GOTL.


----------



## JazzVinyl

wazzupi said:


> Any brand in particular



Nope - all good.


----------



## UntilThen

Giving the 6 x 6bx7gt a break. Using a pair of Svetlana 6h13c now. Put in the c3g/s and there's noise at all. These same c3g/s with 6 x 6bx7gt hums to the point that I stop using them. In all I have 3 pair of NOS c3gs. Glad I can still use the c3g now and that it's not the tubes. The c3gs has clarity none can come close. If you find your setup too bright, it's best to pick other drivers. I have no problem with the c3gs in my setup though.


----------



## wazzupi

Daanish said:


> RCA Black plates from vacuumtubes.net. I think you may have got yours from there too!


Ya i do I pay tax but i get 1 day shipping hehe


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 23, 2018)

Daanish said:


> I caved and bought the 6BX7's lol. They are on their way. I knew I should have stayed away from this thread!!



It’s a good move. 6 x 6bx7 or 6bl7 is a signature tone in the GOTL.

Now try and get a cheap Tung Sol 12sn7gt bgrp with it. You will have a very good premier tone.

A Tung Sol 12sl7gt bgrp will do too.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Im running a Mullard GZ32 and 6x 6bl7s...dunno how you would categorize that roll,bright/warm/neutral.



For sure, the Mullard GZ32 is not at all bright, but the different brands of 6BL7 do have different sonic signatures. Which brand are you using? You might want compare RCA, Sylvania, GE and Tung-Sol to see how well they complement the C3g in your system. (I assume you have the Siemens.). In my experience, Sylvania 6BX7 have the most treble energy, next the GE, and then Tung-Sol and RCA.

And then, we all have different ears. My old and wornout ears are pretty sensitive to treble and I use a pair of HD700's. While my headphones have been modified to smooth out and attenuate the treble, they are still rather bright. I have found the combination of Tung-Sol 6BX7,  GEC U18/20 and Siemens C3g to be magical. However, when I roll in the Lorenz C3g, the sound becomes rather dull and flat. Swapping in the brighter Fivre 6BX7 in place of the Tung-Sol 6BX7 brings the magic back.


----------



## Monsterzero (Aug 23, 2018)

gibosi said:


> For sure, the Mullard GZ32 is not at all bright, but the different brands of 6BL7 do have different sonic signatures. Which brand are you using? You might want compare RCA, Sylvania, GE and Tung-Sol to see how well they complement the C3g in your system. (I assume you have the Siemens.). In my experience, Sylvania 6BX7 have the most treble energy, next the GE, and then Tung-Sol and RCA.
> 
> And then, we all have different ears. My old and wornout ears are pretty sensitive to treble and I use a pair of HD700's. While my headphones have been modified to smooth out and attenuate the treble, they are still rather bright. I have found the combination of Tung-Sol 6BX7,  GEC U18/20 and Siemens C3g to be magical. However, when I roll in the Lorenz C3g, the sound becomes rather dull and flat. Swapping in the brighter Fivre 6BX7 in place of the Tung-Sol 6BX7 brings the magic back.



I bought mine from Andy at vintagetubeservices.com
He says that even though two of mine say RCA,they are in fact all GE,and he hates them. So I dunno what to think other than theyre all GEs. When I roll in a different driver ,like 25v that Glenn included with the GOTL there is nothing bright about the way the amp makes any of my headphones sound,but when the C3Gs go in,they become a bit treble happy with neutral headphones


----------



## gibosi (Aug 23, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> I bought mine from Andy at vintagetubeservices.com
> He says that even though two of mine say RCA,they are in fact all GE,and he hates them. So I dunno what to think other than theyre all GEs. When I roll in a different driver ,like 25v that Glenn included with the GOTL there is nothing bright about the way the amp makes any of my headphones sound,but when the C3Gs go in,they become a bit treble happy with bright headphones



Generally speaking, tubes manufactured in the German sphere tend to be brighter: Siemens, Telefunken, Valvo, Hungarian Tungsram and others. In my experience, this is true of double triodes and rectifiers as well as the C3g. On the other hand,  tubes manufactured in British and western European factories, such as Mullard, British Mazda, Brimar, Cossor, La Radiotechnique, and Philips tend to be warmer and darker.

Tubes manufactured in different factories have different sonic signatures. And further, tubes manufactured in the same factory tend to have similar sonic signatures.

So, it is the "nature" of the Siemens C3g to be brighter than a Brimar 25SN7. They were manufactured in different factories, owned by different companies, and located in different countries.

So again, it is likely that the GE 6BL7 with the Siemens are just a bit too bright for your system. I would encourage you to pick up some RCA 6BL7. Now, RCA did not begin to manufacture the 6BL7 until around 1960. And therefore, there are lots of Sylvanias and GEs masquerading as RCA. Fortunately, it is easy to recongize "real" RCA as they have clear tops and side getters. If the tops are shiny, they are either GE or Sylvania. An example of a real RCA:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RC...s-Electronics-New-Old-Stock-C583/173458689779

Have fun!


----------



## Monsterzero

Yup all mine,even the ones labeled RCA,have shiny tops.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I bought mine from Andy at vintagetubeservices.com
> He says that even though two of mine say RCA,they are in fact all GE,and he hates them. So I dunno what to think other than theyre all GEs. When I roll in a different driver ,like 25v that Glenn included with the GOTL there is nothing bright about the way the amp makes any of my headphones sound,but when the C3Gs go in,they become a bit treble happy with neutral headphones



Just use the 25SN7 and forget the C3gs if they are to bright.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Generally speaking, tubes manufactured in the German sphere tend to be brighter: Siemens, Telefunken, Valvo, Hungarian Tungsram and others. In my experience, this is true of double triodes and rectifiers as well as the C3g. On the other hand,  tubes manufactured in British and western European factories, such as Mullard, British Mazda, Brimar, Cossor, La Radiotechnique, and Philips tend to be warmer and darker.
> 
> Tubes manufactured in different factories have different sonic signatures. And further, tubes manufactured in the same factory tend to have similar sonic signatures.
> 
> ...


And year and construction also make a big difference. My Mullard 12AX7 1955's sound quite different to the 1965's. I don't think you'd call the 1955's warm, but you would the 1965's. I'd simply call the better tubes as more revealing. They reveal more of the sound without any coloring (warm or bright).

What about GEC tubes? Warm or bright? I'd say the 1950's are perfect


----------



## leftside

Oh - and see if you can try a set of LCD-3's. They can be had for very reasonable prices these days. I doubt you'll have any issues with treble with those.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> And year and construction also make a big difference. My Mullard 12AX7 1955's sound quite different to the 1965's. I don't think you'd call the 1955's warm, but you would the 1965's. I'd simply call the better tubes as more revealing. They reveal more of the sound without any coloring (warm or bright).
> 
> What about GEC tubes? Warm or bright? I'd say the 1950's are perfect



I was speaking in very general terms. But of course, tubes manufactured in the same factory, but at different times, often sound different.

Still, there is no mistaking a Mullard ECC88 for a Siemens ECC88, regardless of the date of manufacture. The sonic signatures of tubes manufactured by these two companies are very different. And I would assume that this is also true if comparing 12AX7.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Im running a Mullard GZ32 and 6x 6bl7s...dunno how you would categorize that roll,bright/warm/neutral.


Your youtube channel is very cool.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> Your youtube channel is very cool.



Thank you!


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I was speaking in very general terms. But of course, tubes manufactured in the same factory, but at different times, often sound different.
> 
> Still, there is no mistaking a Mullard ECC88 for a Siemens ECC88, regardless of the date of manufacture. The sonic signatures of tubes manufactured by these two companies are very different. And I would assume that this is also true if comparing 12AX7.


And to make things more complicated, I have found that the same tube sounds different listening through headphones directly through the GOTL, compared to listening via speakers instead. 
Probably processing the signal through the power amp and speakers has an impact on the sound.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> For sure, the Mullard GZ32 is not at all bright, but the different brands of 6BL7 do have different sonic signatures. Which brand are you using? You might want compare RCA, Sylvania, GE and Tung-Sol to see how well they complement the C3g in your system. (I assume you have the Siemens.). In my experience, Sylvania 6BX7 have the most treble energy, next the GE, and then Tung-Sol and RCA.
> 
> And then, we all have different ears. My old and wornout ears are pretty sensitive to treble and I use a pair of HD700's. While my headphones have been modified to smooth out and attenuate the treble, they are still rather bright. I have found the combination of Tung-Sol 6BX7,  GEC U18/20 and Siemens C3g to be magical. However, when I roll in the Lorenz C3g, the sound becomes rather dull and flat. Swapping in the brighter Fivre 6BX7 in place of the Tung-Sol 6BX7 brings the magic back.


You need to get rid of a couple of tubes and the HD-700. Then......... LOL


----------



## UntilThen

ECC31 and 5998 is in the house. 

There are good combinations and there are great combinations. This is a great combination.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> You need to get rid of a couple of tubes and the HD-700. Then......... LOL



After modding, my 700s now sound like a cross between the 650 and 800. I am very happy with them, so no, I am not going to get rid of them.

And why would I want to get rid of any tubes? From my viewpoint, having lots of tubes is a luxury. For example, for any driver, I can roll through a large number of output tubes and rectifiers until I find a magical combination. (That said, I am more than willing to get rid of my Little Dot tubes, but it seems that no one wants them....)

So I am keeping the 700s and I will keep buying more tubes.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> I was speaking in very general terms. But of course, tubes manufactured in the same factory, but at different times, often sound different.
> 
> Still, there is no mistaking a Mullard ECC88 for a Siemens ECC88, regardless of the date of manufacture. The sonic signatures of tubes manufactured by these two companies are very different. And I would assume that this is also true if comparing 12AX7.


You're probably right. My mate who has a lot more rare/exotic tubes says the following about the early 12AX7 tubes (1953 - 1956):

"Siemens first version and first two versions of Valvo are all my fav 12ax7 with the early mullards. The mullards have the most rounded highs (warmth) the Valvo and Siemens are the most linear with the Valvo having the greatest extension. The Amperex are the most holographic, Valvo have the biggest bass, Siemens have the best sound stage. So depending of your system each tube has its best place and when used in combos, line stage/phono stage the best combo is often one pair of each depending on your system. My preference is the second version Valvo with the first version Siemens for my system. "


----------



## JazzVinyl

Kept the TS 12SN7 BGRP but returned to the Mullard 6080's for a deep syrupy dive into tonight's "Illusion of real", via another Jazz Trio album

*John Taylor Trio: Rosslyn*

The traditional trio, Piano/Bass/Drums...This album is recorded to an unusually high standard.  Everything is close miked, and you hear the slightest nuance that happened in the studio 

The "drummer" is especially fascinating - a subtle yet intricate percussive conversation adheres to the fabric laid down by piano and bass.

Interplay between Mr Taylor and his band mates, Marc Johnson, on bass and Joey Baron on drums.
Is outstanding.  Jazz played like this is a language, a dialect of art, expressed via sound waves. 

The album is outstanding, all the tunes are great, my personal favorites are:

The Bowl Song, and How Deep Is The Ocean.

I do think there is a special "Kid Glove" handling of the low frequencies via the 6080's that makes this sound so incredibly realistic. 

i say again...."Thank you, Glenn"!


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 24, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Kept the TS 12SN7 BGRP but returned to the Mullard 6080's for a deep syrupy dive into tonight's "Illusion of real", via another Jazz Trio album
> 
> *John Taylor Trio: Rosslyn*
> 
> ...




This is a great tube combo and one that I use quite often for certain blues music....nothing sounds bright from this tube combo, you can listen to guitar oriented music for hours with no fatigue from brightness.
It is funny how some people call something more detailed others call bright, lol.
The HD800 is the brightest headphone that I own at the moment.

I am much more a warm and musical type of listener most of the time.


----------



## attmci (Aug 24, 2018)

leftside said:


> You're probably right. My mate who has a lot more rare/exotic tubes says the following about the early 12AX7 tubes (1953 - 1956):
> 
> "Siemens first version and first two versions of Valvo are all my fav 12ax7 with the early mullards. The mullards have the most rounded highs (warmth) the Valvo and Siemens are the most linear with the Valvo having the greatest extension. The Amperex are the most holographic, Valvo have the biggest bass, Siemens have the best sound stage. So depending of your system each tube has its best place and when used in combos, line stage/phono stage the best combo is often one pair of each depending on your system. My preference is the second version Valvo with the first version Siemens for my system. "


I was trying to persuade Ken to purchase a pair of nicer cans. Which is much needed for him to tube rolling. He will be able to contribute more valuable advice than what he is doing now. But everyone makes his own decision and we always appreciate Ken's help to many head-fiers.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> I was trying to persuade Ken to purchase a pair of nicer cans. Which is much needed for him to tube rolling. He will be able to contribute more valuable advice than what he is doing now. But everyone makes his own decision and we always appreciate Ken's help to many head-fiers.



Ha! I don't need new cans! I need new ears!! lol


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> The HD800 is the brightest headphone that I own at the moment.
> 
> I am much more a warm and musical type of listener most of the time.



Me too brother!  Give that that warm/lush/tubey "big fat round round tone" any day


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> ECC31 and 5998 is in the house.
> 
> There are good combinations and there are great combinations. This is a great combination.



Bet that bass is fantastic!  I am "shy" of the 5998's now - with 2 reports of blown headphones....


----------



## Althalus

A 3dg4 post.

I followed gibosi's advice and managed to get 7 3dg4's. Lucky enough all from the same seller, this reduces the shipping cost's for me, altough shipping, taxes and handling at customs made them twice as expensive. .
By luck I ended up with 5 different brands. However I'm not sure who manufacterd each tube and when.






The box of the Tung-Sol is slightly wider than the rest and the boxes of the RCA's are shorter.






As you can see, the Tung-Sol and GE are identical tubes. Both have two mica with each 16 spikes. A top halo getter and two D? side getters.

The Tung-Sol has the stop logo on the glass with underneath usa3, on the base is the code 322NC3. 
322 is Tung-Sol, NC3 is meaningless for me, what does it stand for?





The GE has the dot's on the glass and on the base 63-26 and 188-5. I think this stands for 1963-june. 188 is GE, the 5, again not a clue.

The manufacturercodes are not helping me either, from the pictures on the internet I think both are Tung-Sol.


The Sylvania has 2 halo side getters, a bottom mica with no spikes and a top mica with 10 spikes. The tube has also a lot of free space in the head. The codes on the base say bh and AFG, but i cannot find what it stands for. From pictures on the internet I think this is a true Sylvania.

The westinghouse is slightly shorther than the Sylvania. Has two mica with both 12 spikes and 2 D? side getters. On the base is written 337 and 63-52.
337 is Westinghouse, 63 is 1963 and 52 i'm not sure about, or a month code (december) or a week code (week 52). I think this tube is a GE because it looks like the second GE tube i have and because accoring to Gibosi only TS, GE, Sylvania and RCA produced this tube. However confirmation always welcome.






The sylvania in this picture was only for size comparison, but I should have used the westinghouse because I think it's identical to the GE on this picture.
The GE on this picture has a clear base. 2 mica's with both 12 spikes and 2 D? getters. The code on the glass says RI and 165-5. A.gain no idea what it stands for. Maybe I should start to learn the dot's (if they are not from the meaningless period)





The two RCA labeld tubes are the shortest of them all. Each both mica 12 spikes, but different getters. And simple but differently labeled.
One RCA DG on the base and stopsign at side of glass, and 2 rectangular side getters. I think this one might be februari 1971.
The other RCA FB on the glass and a stopsign on top of het glass. And 2 round (halo?) side getters. The code has a mirrored L, but i think its an F, Thus FB is januari 1975.

When I'm correct I managed, by luck, to get a tube from each manufacturer. and from RCA even different (getter) versions. Now waiting for the gotl and then listen if there are differences in soundquality.

Sorry for those who have only hexfred, but I wanted today add something usefull to this site.

And for Glenn, I would still apreciate it when you include a tested rectifier tube with the amp. Just as comparison


----------



## mordy

Hi Athalus,
_322 is Tung-Sol, NC3 is meaningless._ As far as I know, nobody has been able to come up with an explanation what the three symbol code means on TS tubes.
_The GE has the dot's on the glass and on the base 63-26 and 188-5._ The GE tubes usually have the sand blasted dots. If those dots are there, it means GE regardless of what the name is on the tube.
All date codes like 63-26 refer to the year (in some cases different decades like 1963 or 1973 etc), and the following two digits always refer to week. 26:4=June. But see link below:
The GE  EIA (Electrical Industry Association) code is 188.
The 5 refers to a factory. The most common is 5, which means Owensboro, Kentucky. This factory started out as Ken-Rad (Kentucky Radio) and was bought up by GE.
Here is a link to decipher GE codes and dots:
http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=230932
Here is a chart of GE factory codes:
*GE EIA/RETMA LOCATION CODES
188-4 OWENSBORO, KY.
188-5 OWENSBORO, KY. This is most predominate.
188-6 SCHENECTADY, NY
188-20 SCHENECTADY, NY
188-21 SCHENECTADY, NY
188-22 SCRANTON, PA*
Re the Sylvania tube, the codes are a mystery:
The 3 letter Sylvania markings are not date codes. They are production lot codes. 
http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=330504
Some Sylvania tubes have a 3 symbol combination:
L7V as an example. The following is an educated guess:
The first letter refers to the month; A=January, B=February etc.
Thus L means December.
7 refer to the year, but you have to guess the decade based on construction or whatever - could be 1957 or 1967.
The V in the three symbol code is some kind of factory code.
Test yourself: What does B9C mean? 
Here is a comprehensive link to RCA date codes:
http://pax-comm.com/rcadates.pdf
I am sure Oskari can shed more light on this and correct me if needed.
Have fun!


----------



## gibosi

As Mordy notes, the sandblasted lettering and dot pattern indicates GE regardless of the branding. Always. The dot-pattern is a date code.

And as you noticed, an octagon with USA 3 printed below indicates 1960's era Tung Sol.  "NC3" appears to be a date code but to my knowledge there is no information in the public domain to enable us to decipher this code.

On the two Sylvania 3DG4 in my collection, there is no octagon, only text: 3DG4 on the first line and USA on the second. If yours have similar marking, I would judge them to be true 1960's era Sylvania.

Unfortunately, I do not own any RCA 3DG4. However, RCA did use the octagon on their tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Bet that bass is fantastic!  I am "shy" of the 5998's now - with 2 reports of blown headphones....



Good NOS 5998 are the last of the Mohicans now. That is true of all the classic power tubes such as the GEC 6as7g. Stay away from old used 5998. That applies to any tubes.

It's good to have a wide range of tubes. You get to vary your tones. Now running Siemens c3gs and 5998. It's an eye opener.  Dynamics, clarity with a hint of warmth and deep bass.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Question for Glenn:

Kosher to use a single pair of 6080 and a single pair of 6BX7's as output tubes in the GOTL?

.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Question for Glenn:
> 
> Kosher to use a single pair of 6080 and a single pair of 6BX7's as output tubes in the GOTL?
> 
> .


And another question for Glenn: Is it safe to leave only a driver tube with the amp turned on (without any power tubes) to let it burn in? I am a little paranoid of new tubes after ruining one of the drivers in my T1 headphones. I found that most old tubes resent being woken up after of decades of sleep and protest with all kinds of sounds. Usually these sounds disappear, but when they don't  and sound like loud pops or explosions your headphones could be at risk.....
Is it possible that headphones are more sensitive than speakers?


----------



## 2359glenn

One 6080 per side fine the are similar to a 6AS7
One 6BL/BX7 not so much use at least two or it will be over current.

Running just the driver is fine no problem but most bad things happen with the output tubes arc over.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> One 6080 per side fine the are similar to a 6AS7
> One 6BL/BX7 not so much use at least two or it will be over current.
> 
> Running just the driver is fine no problem but most bad things happen with the output tubes arc over.



Meant one 6080 plus one 6BX7 per side....


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Meant one 6080 plus one 6BX7 per side....



I am sure that Glenn will correct me if I am wrong. It probably won't hurt anything. However, you need to remember that the 6BX7 has an amplification factor of "10", whereas the 6080 has an amplification factor of "2". Very frankly, mixing output tubes with different amplification factors doesn't seem to be a good idea. But again, I doubt that it would hurt anything.....


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Meant one 6080 plus one 6BX7 per side....



That will be OK  Don't know how it will sound though.


----------



## Phantaminum

Welcoming the new addition to the family:

The Caesar:


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 24, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Welcoming the new addition to the family:
> 
> The Caesar:



How does it sound ?  What tubes are you using?
I used a 13D1 and six 6BX7s driving the Auteur to test sounded wonderful.


----------



## Phantaminum (Aug 24, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> How does it sound ?
> I used a 13D1 and six 6BX7s driving the Auteur to test sounded wonderful.



Sounds fantastic right off the bat with the 5998s and TS 12SL7. Since I'm in the middle of packing up our place I reached for the easiest to get power tubes. Tomorrow I'll be digging through the box for the 6BX7s and pairing it with the 13D1.

The biggest take away from the amp is the layers. So many different layers in songs I knew were there but were never separated like this. Thanks for working hard on the amp Glenn!


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> Welcoming the new addition to the family:
> 
> The Caesar:



Congrats, Phantaminum. Beautiful amp. Enjoy!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 24, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Welcoming the new addition to the family:
> 
> The Caesar:



Looks great!!  BIG CONGRATS!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Sounds fantastic right off the bat with the 5998s and TS 12SL7. Since I'm in the middle of packing up our place I reached for the easiest to get power tubes. Tomorrow I'll be digging through the box for the 6BX7s and pairing it with the 13D1.
> 
> The biggest take away from the amp is the layers. So many different layers in songs I knew were there but we're never separated like this. Thanks for working hard on the amp Glenn!



Looks exactly like my amp.  Congrats.

TS 12SL7gt bgrp with 5998 or 6 x 6bx7gt sounds incredible. You could practically stop tube rolling there but in the interest of this hobby, you must discover more for yourself.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Sounds fantastic right off the bat with the 5998s and TS 12SL7. Since I'm in the middle of packing up our place I reached for the easiest to get power tubes. Tomorrow I'll be digging through the box for the 6BX7s and pairing it with the 13D1.
> 
> The biggest take away from the amp is the layers. So many different layers in songs I knew were there but we're never separated like this. Thanks for working hard on the amp Glenn!



Glad you like!


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Looks exactly like my amp.  Congrats.



No no no!! Looks exactly like MY amp....!


----------



## leftside

Nice one @Phantaminum 

And the rest of us on the list all move up a place


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Good NOS 5998 are the last of the Mohicans now. That is true of all the classic power tubes such as the GEC 6as7g. Stay away from old used 5998. That applies to any tubes.
> 
> It's good to have a wide range of tubes. You get to vary your tones. Now running Siemens c3gs and 5998. It's an eye opener.  Dynamics, clarity with a hint of warmth and deep bass.



I don't think so. Most of the bad 5998s are NIB. It cannot be NOS, because it won't past the leak or short tests.

I could be wrong.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> No no no!! Looks exactly like MY amp....!



There will be a lot more looking like it. I call it the Glenn Super 9 OTL amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Not exactly maybe it is the same.


----------



## 2359glenn

This weekend pack up a EL3N amp
I am building a 300B amp now nice sounding amp only the tubes are to expensive for good ones.
Maybe WE will start selling them soon I need a pair.
+ building a OTL for @Daanish.


----------



## UntilThen

Put up my NAD M51 dac for sale but someone is asking about my GOTL instead !  

Anyway someone is coming over to get the M51 in an hour. Must be the fastest sale. Got a response within 5 mins of putting it up.
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/252551-fs-nad-m51-dac/


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Put up my NAD M51 dac for sale but someone is asking about my GOTL instead !
> 
> Anyway someone is coming over to get the M51 in an hour. Must be the fastest sale. Got a response within 5 mins of putting it up.
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/252551-fs-nad-m51-dac/



Sell the OTL for more money then you paid for it and I will build you another one.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Sell the OTL for more money then you paid for it and I will build you another one.



Why? Are you building me a better one? Which one? 

Selling the GOTL is hard. I really like it a lot especially with all the tubes I've got.


----------



## 2359glenn

The same.  Do you think you need something crazier?
Am planing on building a better one for @leftside have to get a custom transformer made to run 6 6AS7s


----------



## attmci (Aug 24, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> The same.  Do you think you need something crazier?
> Am planing on building a better one for @leftside have to get a custom transformer made to run 6 6AS7s


I need one to run a dozen. 

Have a nice weekend!


----------



## zach915m

Phantaminum said:


> Sounds fantastic right off the bat with the 5998s and TS 12SL7. Since I'm in the middle of packing up our place I reached for the easiest to get power tubes. Tomorrow I'll be digging through the box for the 6BX7s and pairing it with the 13D1.
> 
> The biggest take away from the amp is the layers. So many different layers in songs I knew were there but were never separated like this. Thanks for working hard on the amp Glenn!



Congrats!!!!

Will have to steal some of your guys tube choices.  =)


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The same.  Do you think you need something crazier?
> Am planing on building a better one for @leftside have to get a custom transformer made to run 6 6AS7s



What a busy morning. NAD M51 sold !

Glenn, in my opinion, the GOTL which I have is perfect. I did toy with getting tube rectification but I am glad I chose hexfred. Good 'ole' Fred. 

Very interesting with the 6 x 6AS7s for power tubes but I can't see myself using 6 of those. A pair is sufficient for me and my HD800. Even the LCD-2f. Even the Eikon and Atticus. I did miss those headphones. Maybe I should order a ZMF Auteur.


----------



## UntilThen

zach915m said:


> Congrats!!!!
> 
> Will have to steal some of your guys tube choices.  =)



But first you need the Super 9. 

How's the GEL3N going for you by the way. We need a headphone specialist opinion on it.


----------



## Sonic Defender

UntilThen said:


> What a busy morning. NAD M51 sold !
> 
> Glenn, in my opinion, the GOTL which I have is perfect. I did toy with getting tube rectification but I am glad I chose hexfred. Good 'ole' Fred.
> 
> Very interesting with the 6 x 6AS7s for power tubes but I can't see myself using 6 of those. A pair is sufficient for me and my HD800. Even the LCD-2f. Even the Eikon and Atticus. I did miss those headphones. Maybe I should order a ZMF Auteur.


I sold my M51 about 6 months ago. Great DAC, still miss it.


----------



## UntilThen

Sonic Defender said:


> I sold my M51 about 6 months ago. Great DAC, still miss it.



 3 persons wanted to buy it in the first 10 mins ! AUD$730 is cheap and agree, it is a great dac. Transparency, details and clarity but it's not sharp nor annoying.

Anyway back to tubes sampling. In the world of 6sn7 and 6as7, you can't do better than Tung Sol black glass round plates and Gec 6as7g. I am running those tubes now and it's caviar of the best quality.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I need one to run a dozen.
> 
> Have a nice weekend!



Get Glenn to build you a Atma-sphere equivalent.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 25, 2018)

So many tubes so little time. Only because I'm still on holiday that I get to roll quite a lot more. I had thought that my tube rolling days are over. There are still so many more combinations I have not tried.

Ken Rad 1633 - this is a 25 volt tube. Similar sounding to a Ken Rad 6sn7gt, of which I have one too. I think of this tube as being on the slight warm side of neutral with a kick ass bass.

My pair of Cetron 7236 has not seen duty for a long time and I thought it would be a good pairing with the KR 1633. It did not disappoint. The chemistry is there. The more vivid and leaner tone of the 7236 is compensated by the Ken Rad. This is a beautiful tone !

It goes without saying that this combination is super quiet. Noisy combinations are not featured by me.


----------



## UntilThen

That listening session was done with HD800. Switching headphones to LCD-2f, the bass is unbelievable. I like it. Now to find some blues songs.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright you need to buy this Super 9 amp because there is only one word to describe the bass - authoritative ! This is not some doof doof bass you hear from some street cars. This is well defined bass that goes super deep and move your ear drums - esp with a planar headphone.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> What a busy morning. NAD M51 sold !
> 
> Glenn, in my opinion, the GOTL which I have is perfect. I did toy with getting tube rectification but I am glad I chose hexfred. Good 'ole' Fred.
> 
> Very interesting with the 6 x 6AS7s for power tubes but I can't see myself using 6 of those. A pair is sufficient for me and my HD800. Even the LCD-2f. Even the Eikon and Atticus. I did miss those headphones. Maybe I should order a ZMF Auteur.



I only had a brief listen to these, but I was able to listen to them with my gear....for my favorite genre , blues, these trump my HD800...much better bass...nice soundstage depth with great texture







Phantaminum said:


> Welcoming the new addition to the family:
> 
> The Caesar:


Congrats man....great times ahead for you.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The same.  Do you think you need something crazier?
> Am planing on building a better one for @leftside have to get a custom transformer made to run 6 6AS7s




Ha, talked about this once....using a 20 amp transformer!


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Phantaminum said:


> Welcoming the new addition to the family:
> 
> The Caesar:



Congratulations on your new Glenn. I will hopefully get at end of September  fingers crossed. All good things are worth the wait. Reading this thread of knowledgeable tube rollers really gets me excited to hear what my ZMF teak Auteurs can sound like. I hear my Auteurs on Whirlwinds amp and that was sound that closed the deal for me on getting a  Glenn OTL. 

Enjoy and don't wear out your ears.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Welcoming the new addition to the family:
> 
> The Caesar:



Welcome to the club! Congrats!


----------



## Phantaminum

Thanks everyone! Glad to be part of the Glenn group.

Sat down this morning with a big cup of coffee, some toast, and started to roll a few tubes.

Powered by a sixtet of GE B6X7s.

Favorite tube so far:
*GEC B36* - It does vocals and mids so well. *Frank Sinatra's - Fly Me To The Moon* is a pleasure to listen to. His voice and instruments have a meaty weight behind them. This song is also notoriously dynamic. You have to turn up the volume to get Frank's voice to a reasonable level and midway the instruments really kick in. Had too many instances where I had to yank the headphones off my head when the instruments blare in. Not with this tube. Don't get me started at how sublime Norah Jone's voice sounds from this tube.

Followed up by:
*6SN7W Metal Base* -  This tube throws out a huge and holographic sound stage. *Tennyson's - Like What* has a section towards the end where it sounds like someone is walking up stairs and opens several doors with different music playing behind each of them. Freaked me out a little. Felt like I was there and could visually see the person opening doors and closing them.

*13D1 *- Is just buttery smooth. This tube reminds me of Philip tubes ala Amperex D-Getter E88CCs. Top slightly rolled off. Full sound and good heft behind music. Sound stage is smaller than the other tubes. None fatiguing at all. I can see myself using this tube as my daily driver. Save the rest of tubes when I want to be spoiled.

*Tung-Sol 12SN7* - The all arounder. Wide sound stage, holographic, great tonality. I'll be using this as my second daily driver.

I'm still impressed with the layering of the amp. I'll stop there since we're still packing but can't wait to set up the amp once we settle in.


----------



## rnros

@Phantaminum Thanks for the additional impressions and Good Luck with the move.
Good news is you already have the perfect packing box for the GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

@Phantaminum  you are well served with all the good drivers and good impressions.

GEC B36 - did you have the metal base or the brown base? They are both just as desirable and my bet is that they would be similar sounding. I have the brown base with the code 'LM 4' on the glass and the GEC Valve label. This came in the original box and Stavros told me it's a new unused tube.


----------



## UntilThen

These were my 'magnificent 7'.

L to R - Telefunken c3g/s, Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, Tung Sol 6F8G, ECC31, Gec B36, Marconi B36, Ken Rad 1633.
 

These arrived later - ECC33, ECC35, Tung Sol 12SN7gt and 12SL7gt bgrp, RCA 5961.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> @Phantaminum  you are well served with all the good drivers and good impressions.
> 
> GEC B36 - did you have the metal base or the brown base? They are both just as desirable and my bet is that they would be similar sounding. I have the brown base with the code 'LM 4' on the glass and the GEC Valve label. This came in the original box and Stavros told me it's a new unused tube.



Thanks UT,

I have the brown base GEC with the umbrella spokes. My box came in a little beat up and looks quite old the tube sounds fantastic. That’s all I ask for. I’ll be buying me one more down the road. 

I found myself packing and throwing in a tube, leaving it on for 30 minutes the sitting down for a quick session. The SO is not amused.


----------



## UntilThen

I haven't roll in my GEC B36 since a few months. Now it's in with the same humble pair of Cetron 7236. What a contrast with the Ken Rad 1633. Details comes flooding in now. B36 is not as bright as 6sn7w but certainly much more clearer than the KR 1633. Sort of hit the sweet spot. These GEC B36 are sweet and beautiful sounding.

Between packing to move and listening to a new amp and tubes, I know what I will do.


----------



## UntilThen

Need more tubes? Visit the Vacuum Tube Audio Fair this Oct in Tokyo Akihabara. 
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/to...-tube-audio-fair-october-7-8-tokyo-akihabara/


----------



## leftside

@UntilThen Your B65 is from 1955 - a very good vintage  There are meant to be subtle sonic differences between the various B636 tubes and I don't think it's due to the base. It's just that the metal base tubes were earlier editions (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), and as with most tubes - the earlier the better - but of course condition/abuse also apply.

GEC tubes are my favorites. The main reason I ordered the GOTL in the first place was to be able to use the GEC B36!


----------



## mordy

Hi Phantaminum,
Congrats on your new amp! Mine looks exactly the same, but I am not sure if you have the preamp out jacks on the back that I have.
IMHO I think it sounds even better now than in the beginning, and I think that it benefits from breaking in - how long time you need I don't know. In addition, every tube sounds good with the GOTL and 6x6BX7, and I find the differences subtle between some tubes where I was able to hear big difference with other amps.
Everybody seems to rave about the TS 12SN7GT BGRP. I managed to snag a TS 6SN7 BGRP - does it sound the same?
Does anybody know if there is a formula for calculating the amplification factor when you mix power tubes? As an example, a pair of 6080 with a pair of 6SN7 or 4x6SN7? Even with 6080 and 4x6SN7 with current draw is less than 8A.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> @UntilThen Your B65 is from 1955 - a very good vintage  There are meant to be subtle sonic differences between the various B636 tubes and I don't think it's due to the base. It's just that the metal base tubes were earlier editions (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), and as with most tubes - the earlier the better - but of course condition/abuse also apply.
> 
> GEC tubes are my favorites. The main reason I ordered the GOTL in the first place was to be able to use the GEC B36!



1955 is a good year. That's 63 years. 

I have tubes that are older. FDD20 is 23 Mar 1942. The Sylvania 6sn7w metal base is in the 1940s. That's 70 plus years. Still in such good condition. How do they preserve so well?

I ordered the GOTL because I have most of the good power tubes already, including the Gec 6as7g and 6080. Yeah I was obsessed with my power tubes then but I didn't know that the love has now shifted to drivers instead. My collection of good drivers have outnumbered the power tubes now. I could only do that because I only need one of each drivers.

I'm running Gec B36 and a pair of Gec 6080 now. There's a lot to like about the Gec tubes. They are going to be extinct soon like the dinosaurs.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy I believe the TS 6sn7gt bgrp is similar to the TS 12sn7gt bgrp. Almost certain it is. I even find the TS 12sn7gt bgrp to be similar in tone to the TS 12sl7gt bgrp except the latter sounds louder because of the higher gain.

You can experiment with 2 x 6080 and 4 x 6sn7. I never did but I did try with 6 x 6sn7 and a 6sn7 as driver. That's your Super 7.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm burning up 25 cents every minute with this combo. It's the best blend. The Gec 6080 is brighter and clearer than the Gec 6as7g and together, the tone is decadently rich and alluring. Add the Gec B36 and you have coffee of the most exotic kind.

Wow songs takes on a new dimension now. 

See the volume knob. It's at noon with this combo using HD800, dac is Yggdrasil.


----------



## zach915m

UntilThen said:


> But first you need the Super 9.
> 
> How's the GEL3N going for you by the way. We need a headphone specialist opinion on it.



Getting it back this week with some special tweaks for the ZMF's from Glenn.  I'll be getting an OTL later, and will bring one of them to RMAF.


----------



## UntilThen

That will give Glenn's amps the exposure it deserves, except he will be even more busy making amps, let alone making one for himself.


----------



## UntilThen

Suddenly there are a few Gec B36 on ebay. GBP 86 new - pretty good price for such a classy driver.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/B36-12S...827695?hash=item5b49e5e76f:g:rDAAAOSw7yZbR5ef


----------



## mordy (Aug 26, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I'm burning up 25 cents every minute with this combo. It's the best blend. The Gec 6080 is brighter and clearer than the Gec 6as7g and together, the tone is decadently rich and alluring. Add the Gec B36 and you have coffee of the most exotic kind.
> 
> 
> Wow songs takes on a new dimension now.
> ...


Hi UT,
I tried the GEC 6080 and the GEC 6AS7 together with the C3g as drivers in the past in the GOTL.
The result was unexpected - too much auditory information. I felt that I was barraged with details and cues; it was as if all the background information on the recording was brought into the front. Never dreamed that I would say such a thing as too much details...
After that I switched to the 6x6BX7 and have stayed with it, changing drivers only. It takes me a long time to get used to the GOTL. The tubes have to be perfect in this amp, and any tube that that is not top notch doesn't make it.
I have been battling the crackle, pop, hum and microphonics of some tubes. These are my observations so far:
A lot of old tubes have to be allowed to sit and cook for 20 minutes or so before turning on the sound or plugging in the headphones. Often there is crackling, pinging and ticking sounds. I imagine that the electronic cobwebs have to be cleared out.
If after warming up for an extended period the tube exhibits LOUD POPS OR GUNSHOT LIKE SOUNDS, throw in the towel and stop using it - it's not going to get better and you could damage your equipment.
If it HUMS I have found an inexpensive solution. First of all, I found that the el cheapo socket savers I have could contribute to hum. If you use them, and a driver tube hums, try without the socket saver - it may reduce or take away the hum.
The other step with a tube that only hums (no crackling or pops) is to take a little piece of self-fusing high temperature silicon tape. Then measure out the circumference of the tube on the tape, and cut it 3/8" shorter. The tape is flexible and stretches easily. Unpeel the clear backing of the tape (does not feel sticky) and stick this side to the tube. Pull and stretch it tight around the tube so that it overlaps a little and press down. It sort of melts together, and you now how a tight black silicon rubber band around the tube. Another plus is that it makes the tube look like an expensive BGRP tube (unless it was that to begin with, in which case the tube designation isn't visible any more lol).
Anyhow, I have tried it on tubes that hum and it works.
ATM listening to my new acquisition - a Tung Sol 6SN7 BGRP (with the abdominal band treatment). Sounds nice, but does not have the full impact bass; maybe needs burning in. The code is 3228-39. 322 = Tung Sol. The 8 is possibly 1958, and 39 is the 39th week = September.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> ATM listening to my new acquisition - a Tung Sol 6SN7 BGRP (with the abdominal band treatment). Sounds nice, but does not have the full impact bass; maybe needs burning in. The code is 3228-39. 322 = Tung Sol. The 8 is possibly 1958, and 39 is the 39th week = September.



Tung Sol stopped making the BGRP way before 1958. So 1948 is much more likely.


----------



## mordy (Aug 26, 2018)

Thanks - you made my day. Got it for much less than the going rate, so I was not sure if I hit the jackpot.
Does the same apply to 6SL7/12SL7 BGRP?
PS: Traced the lack of bass to a loose RCA plug - bass is good now.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy if you are getting too much ‘details’ don’t use the c3g as drivers. Use the TS 6sn7gt bgrp instead.

I don’t use the GOTL as preamp. I use it as an amp with a very revealing headphone. It function amazing as an OTL amp.

Also I have mention about the GOTL as being less tolerant of some tubes with regards to noise. I know which combos are silent now and there are many. Those are the ones I use.

Speakers listening is a totally different experience. I have revert to playing vinyl now on my stereo system now. Eva Cassidy on double 180gm LPs. Exquisite.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Does the same apply to 6SL7/12SL7 BGRP?
> PS: Traced the lack of bass to a loose RCA plug - bass is good now.



That's good to know because the TS 6sn7gt bgrp cannot be accused of lacking in bass. On the contrary, it's exemplary in bass control and output.

I very much believe that the TS 6sl7gt bgrp and TS 12sl7gt bgrp are similar in tone.


----------



## UntilThen

I am onto 6 x 6BL7gt with Gec B36. Well I have a mixture of brands here but they are all supposed to be Sylvania.

2 x Sylvania 6BL7gta
2 x Sylvania 6BL7gt
1 x Tung Sol 6BL7gta
1 x Westinghouse 6BL7gta

All new tubes and there is zip noise. Total silence. Remarkable indeed.

I was quite blown away by the complete Gec tubes combo mentioned above. Switching to these 6 x 6BL7gta/gt, what do I expect? I was equally blown away by these much cheaper tubes, if not more.  

What's the difference? The Gec combo is lusher, airier and very good layers. It's mistle, holographic tone is mesmerising. The 6BL7s are tighter, more dynamic and precise, more cutting edge. I cannot equate these to solid state amp sound because the tube tone is ever present and sweet. However it feels more alive and agile than the Gec combo. I really love the 6BL7s (that applies to the 6BX7s too). I am not even talking about price because I'm evaluating strictly on how I like the tone of these 2 sets. So ... both are really gorgeous tone but I prefer the 6BL7s and that's quite remarkable. As usual, your mileage may vary.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> GEC tubes are my favorites. The main reason I ordered the GOTL in the first place was to be able to use the GEC B36!



It can't be because of just the Gec B36 because you have a lot of other lovely drivers. Ecc33 and ecc35 will make you weep for joy. Did you not also have quad WE 421A power tubes? Careful, when you are done listening, you might relegate the 300b amp to 2nd place.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> Congrats on your new amp! Mine looks exactly the same, but I am not sure if you have the preamp out jacks on the back that I have.
> IMHO I think it sounds even better now than in the beginning, and I think that it benefits from breaking in - how long time you need I don't know. In addition, every tube sounds good with the GOTL and 6x6BX7, and I find the differences subtle between some tubes where I was able to hear big difference with other amps.
> _Everybody seems to rave about the TS 12SN7GT BGRP. I managed to snag a TS 6SN7 BGRP - does it sound the same?_
> Does anybody know if there is a formula for calculating the amplification factor when you mix power tubes? As an example, a pair of 6080 with a pair of 6SN7 or 4x6SN7? Even with 6080 and 4x6SN7 with current draw is less than 8A.



You need to grab a 12SN7 and let the society know.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I am onto 6 x 6BL7gt with Gec B36. Well I have a mixture of brands here but they are all supposed to be Sylvania.
> 
> 2 x Sylvania 6BL7gta
> 2 x Sylvania 6BL7gt
> ...



I think these may sounds great in your amp. Too bad it's very difficult to find batch of 6bl7s now.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> Congrats on your new amp! Mine looks exactly the same, but I am not sure if you have the preamp out jacks on the back that I have.
> IMHO I think it sounds even better now than in the beginning, and I think that it benefits from breaking in - how long time you need I don't know. In addition, every tube sounds good with the GOTL and 6x6BX7, and I find the differences subtle between some tubes where I was able to hear big difference with other amps.
> Everybody seems to rave about the TS 12SN7GT BGRP. I managed to snag a TS 6SN7 BGRP - does it sound the same?
> Does anybody know if there is a formula for calculating the amplification factor when you mix power tubes? As an example, a pair of 6080 with a pair of 6SN7 or 4x6SN7? Even with 6080 and 4x6SN7 with current draw is less than 8A.



Hey Mordy! It's exactly the same as yours and the Glenn Super 11.  

I unfortunately don't have the preamp out (which I was thinking of requesting) but only because we haven't settled down on a home yet. Job is taking me everywhere.  I think I may request it next year once we zero in on a place. I'd love to hear how it sounds as a preamp to speakers.

The Tung Sol BGRP 6C8G variants were my favorite when I owned Mjolnir 2 and currently owned MCTH but I find that I'm really enjoying the Sylvanias more in the GOTL. I mean I really fell in love with the TS sound and feel like I'm cheating on it. Definitely sounds different in the GOTL. 

@rnros Thanks for making me go down the rabbit hole. I was happily content with the MJ2 and then you had me try the Ken-Rad 6C8Gs which opened my eyes to how big a tube can sound. After than it was all downhill. Thanks for answering all my questions as well and everyone else in this thread that keep providing great information.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I am onto 6 x 6BL7gt with Gec B36. Well I have a mixture of brands here but they are all supposed to be Sylvania.
> 
> 2 x Sylvania 6BL7gta
> 2 x Sylvania 6BL7gt
> ...



6BL7 better then 6BX7 sound???


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> @rnros Thanks for making me go down the rabbit hole. I was happily content with the MJ2 and then you had me try the Ken-Rad 6C8Gs which opened my eyes to how big a tube can sound. After than it was all downhill. Thanks for answering all my questions as well and everyone else in this thread that keep providing great information.



You're welcome! Hard to believe now, but the GOTL will continue to improve over the next 6 to 9 months.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Hey Mordy! It's exactly the same as yours and the Glenn Super 11.
> 
> I unfortunately don't have the preamp out (which I was thinking of requesting) but only because we haven't settled down on a home yet. Job is taking me everywhere.  I think I may request it next year once we zero in on a place. I'd love to hear how it sounds as a preamp to speakers.
> 
> ...


Hi P,
You may be able to use the headphone out as a preamp output, but better ask Glenn first.


----------



## myphone (Aug 26, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi my phone,
> Is there any possibility that these tubes will sound as good as the 6SN7W?



Mordy, my impression is based on listening on a different amp.

Both sylvania 12SN7GT and 6SN7w (short bottle) are great tubes, different sounding. 12SN7GT sounds just like 6SN7GT, refine and sweat; 6SN7w is detail and immediate.

Depends on phone pairing and music, one may prefer one tube over another.

Somewhat similar to GEC 6AS7 and GEC 6080. To my ears, GEC 6AS7s pair better with HD 800 and HD600, while GEC 6080s pair better with T1 and HD6XX.


----------



## mordy

No, I did not snag this pair of Tung Sol 6SN7BGRP for $14 shipped....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-TUNG-SOL...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

And not this one either - a 12SN7GT BGRP for $10.50 shipped?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-1...812903?hash=item3d6e8e1f27:g:eh4AAOSw1ktbX04O
Does anybody have any suggestion on how to monitor eBay for good buy- it -now deals? If you sign up for notifications they will email you once a day during the night - can't check up all the time......


----------



## myphone

attmci said:


> "Physical" damage. I can see it.I am using a pair of clear-top 5998 all the time. TO ME, they are very close to 421A. I know you hate them.



attmci, concur. I like 421a better. Did some comparison today 1964 d-getter 421a is structurally different from clear top 5998 (1958 and 1959, d-getter).


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


> Mordy, my impression is based on listening on a different amp.
> 
> Both sylvania 12SN7GT and 6SN7w (short bottle) are great tubes, different sounding. 12SN7GT sounds just like 6SN7GT, refine and sweat; 6SN7w is detail and immediate.
> 
> ...





myphone said:


> Mordy, my impression is based on listening on a different amp.
> 
> Both sylvania 12SN7GT and 6SN7w (short bottle) are great tubes, different sounding. 12SN7GT sounds just like 6SN7GT, refine and sweat; 6SN7w is detail and immediate.
> 
> ...


Hi mp,
I have a Sylvania 6SN7WGT. Would you know how it sounds in relation to the above Sylvania variants?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> 6BL7 better then 6BX7 sound???



I have a slight preference on the 6bx7 over the 6bl7 but I get to the point where I don't mind using either sets. The main problem is being able to get a complete set but as I have shown in my 6bl7 set, it doesn't have to be the same brand. I even have gta mixed with gt. It sounds coherent and there are no anomaly in the resultant tone.

The most obvious difference is the 6bl7 is louder and as a consequence, it feels sharper and more vivid than the 6bx7. Here is where the partnering choice of driver is important.  If you're using c3g, it's best to select 6bx7.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi mp,
> I have a Sylvania 6SN7WGT. Would you know how it sounds in relation to the above Sylvania variants?



Allow me to chime in here. I have the 6sn7wgt as well, way before I own the 6sn7w. They do not sound similar at all. Most Sylvania 6sn7 are quite pronounced in the high notes but the 6sn7wgt seems a bit more dialled back. Sylvania 6sn7 are never prominent in their bass. In fact one could say that it's a bit lacking there but the 6sn7w is different. It's detailed, dynamic, wide soundstage and great bass. None of the Sylvania 6sn7 will ever come close to the 6sn7w.


----------



## 2359glenn

Thanks that is what I thought I do prefer the 6BX7. Mostly due to it's less gain not amplifying noise from the driver as much.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Allow me to chime in here. I have the 6sn7wgt as well, way before I own the 6sn7w. They do not sound similar at all. Most Sylvania 6sn7 are quite pronounced in the high notes but the 6sn7wgt seems a bit more dialled back. Sylvania 6sn7 are never prominent in their bass. In fact one could say that it's a bit lacking there but the 6sn7w is different. It's detailed, dynamic, wide soundstage and great bass. None of the Sylvania 6sn7 will ever come close to the 6sn7w.


Hi UT,
Thanks for your clarification. Is the sound of the Sylvania 6SN7W similar to the Tung Sol 6/12SN7GT BGRP?


----------



## UntilThen

These 2 tubes are unlikely cousins.  Some tubes you might say there are just slight subtle differences but not these 2.

6sn7w is leaner, more defined and dynamic. Bgrp is lusher and more all rounder. Both great tubes in the GOTL. However given the price of a NOS 6sn7w now, I'd rather pick up the Gec B36 new.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> These 2 tubes are unlikely cousins.  Some tubes you might say there are just slight subtle differences but not these 2.
> 
> 6sn7w is leaner, more defined and dynamic. Bgrp is lusher and more all rounder. Both great tubes in the GOTL. However given the price of a NOS 6sn7w now, I'd rather pick up the Gec B36 new.


Thanks.


----------



## JazzVinyl

All this chatter about Syl 6SN7GT vs 6SN7W made me fire up my 12SN7GT that is almost new, bought for peanuts (because it is a 12v tube).

While I agree with UT that is has a more compact soundstage and a little less treble sparkle than 6SN7W, I do think it 
is an awful nice sounding tube.  The additional bass it has over the 6SN7W is appreciated. 

I also think this is one of those tubes that takes a while to sound it's best. Let it run for 10 minutes before listening and I'll bet you like it better than if you listen just after it's been rolled in. 

Also seems to have a touch of a 'reverb' sound that is more pronounced than in 6SN7W as well.

I would say it leans more towards TS BGRP sound but less bass and less "fat tubey"...


----------



## mordy

Just picked up a tube that I did not know existed - the 6S78:





Is this a tube* s*pecially developed for 78RPM records? Just kidding - it is a high powered long lasting 6SN7GT made by RCA for use in TV sets.



The main difference that I can see from the enclosed spec sheet is that the current draw i 0.8A compared to 0.6A for a regular 6SN7 tube.The amplification factor is the same - 20.
This tube is NOS and it sounds just fine in the GOTL. Need more time to evaluate the sound.
Bet you never heard about the Sheldon 6S78 lol.......Not listed by Radiomuseum.


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> All this chatter about Syl 6SN7GT vs 6SN7W made me fire up my 12SN7GT that is almost new, bought for peanuts (because it is a 12v tube).
> 
> While I agree with UT that is has a more compact soundstage and a little less treble sparkle than 6SN7W, I do think it
> is an awful nice sounding tube.  The additional bass it has over the 6SN7W is appreciated.
> ...



Agreed. The 6SN7Ws is a beautiful sounding tube. It sounds fantastic with pretty much any output tube. 

Now, I popped in the Cetron 6336B power tube and I was awed with how hard it hit with the HD650s. I decided to try out the Green Label Sylvania 12SN7GT with a vertical date code. Great synergy between those two tubes. Extended treble and the Sylvanias still resolves small details. They compliment each other well and shore up eachs other's deficiencies.


----------



## UntilThen

Auralic Aries Le sold ! 

Just saw in the pictures that I had both the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and Mullard ECC35 in GOTL. That's a selling point. 
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/252552-sold-fs-auralic-aries-le-plus-gieseler-lpsu/


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 26, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Agreed. The 6SN7Ws is a beautiful sounding tube. It sounds fantastic with pretty much any output tube.
> 
> Now, I popped in the Cetron 6336B power tube and I was awed with how hard it hit with the HD650s. I decided to try out the Green Label Sylvania 12SN7GT with a vertical date code. Great synergy between those two tubes. Extended treble and the Sylvanias still resolves small details. They compliment each other well and shore up eachs other's deficiencies.



I don't have the 6336B's but have spent the week with a pair of Mullard 6080's in the power slots.  After an hour of the 12SN7GT - I also switched in a Green Label Syl 6SN7GT and was very pleasesd. listening to Rick Wakemen's "Six wives Of Henry The Eighth"...really impressed, a great sounding tube, think I will try a Raytheon 6SN7 next...


----------



## gibosi (Aug 26, 2018)

mordy said:


> Just picked up a tube that I did not know existed - the 6S78:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sheldon advertising for the 6S78 is considered by many to be hyperbole. At the very least, if the tube actually had 0.8A heaters, there should have been a warning about using this tube in TV sets designed for 0.6A heaters. And most of the other claims are equally questionable, such as increasing height and width of the picture, increasing stability, and eliminating "SNOW". The 6S78 looks to my eyes like an ordinary Sylvania 6SN7GT. And in fact, there is some evidence that Sheldon was in the business of marketing "used or factory seconds" (UOFS). So while it may sound good (or at least as good as a Sylvania) I wouldn't encourage anyone to pay top dollar for it.


----------



## mordy (Aug 26, 2018)

gibosi said:


> Sheldon advertising for the 6S78 is considered by many to be hyperbole. At the very least, if the tube actually had 0.8A heaters, there should have been a warning about using this tube in TV sets designed for 0.6A heaters. And most of the other claims are equally questionable, such as increasing height and width of the picture, increasing stability, and eliminating "SNOW". The 6S78 looks to my eyes like an ordinary Sylvania 6SN7GT. And in fact, there is some evidence that Sheldon was in the business of marketing "used or factory seconds" (UOFS). So while it may sound good (or at least as good as a Sylvania) I wouldn't encourage anyone to pay top dollar for it.


Hi G,
Interesting to read about the snow job by Sheldon. But you should know me by know - I paid $3 for this tube + $3.80 shipping. (A similar looking Sylvania tube on eBay today is listed for around $20).


----------



## JazzVinyl

The Sheldon is the fountain of youth for old wors out TV sets....so it says 

Exceptionally valuable!


----------



## UntilThen

The only fountain of youth I know is to ride like the wind. So I am off on my racing bike !


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> The only fountain of youth I know is to ride like the wind. So I am off on my racing bike !



Works until your knees wear out....

Have fun


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi G,
> Interesting to read about the snow job by Sheldon. But you should know me by know - I paid $3 for this tube + $3.80 shipping. (A similar looking tube on eBay today is listed for around $20).



I have a Sheldon HI-PO 567 that I paid $1 for new in box just looks like a 5U4G
Cant beat that price for a 5U4.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Works until your knees wear out....
> 
> Have fun



My knees are built like Bendix 6080. Anyway stopping for a photo shoot.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Back to 6x 6BX7 and an early 60's Raytheon 6SN7....the Raytheon delivers! Always liked this driver. don't hear folks talking about the Raytheons much anymore but this one hits a lot so sweet spots.  Lots of bass, nice soundstage, non fatiguing treble, and detail city.

HD650's love it.


----------



## gibosi

Not much has been posted recently regarding tube rectifiers... But there are quite a few GOTL out there designed to use 5-volt rectifers. So even though I am admittedly very far out in vacuum-tube rectifier left field, I thought this might be of interest to some...

With the plug-in HEXFRED, I haven't been all that impressed with the old embossed Lorenz C3g no matter which output tubes they were paired with. To my ears, the Lorenz are simply too subdued. One of my go-to tracks is Nora Jones, "Come Away With Me," and even with the mid-range forward Fivre 6BX7, the Lorenz are still too subdued, Something is still missing. But if I add in a touch of GEC magic (U18/20), her voice really comes alive. It is almost palpable.

With the more neutral Tung-Sol 6BX7, even adding a bit of GEC magic doesn't have the desired affect. But if I add in a touch of Telefunken magic (WE56), which seems a bit more powerful, her voice again comes alive. And I am ready to grab her hand and go! lol 

With either of these rectifiers, the Lorenz C3g is one of my favorite drivers.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Not much has been posted recently regarding tube rectifiers... But there are quite a few GOTL out there designed to use 5-volt rectifers. So even though I am admittedly very far out in vacuum-tube rectifier left field, I thought this might be of interest to some...
> 
> With the plug-in HEXFRED, I haven't been all that impressed with the old embossed Lorenz C3g no matter which output tubes they were paired with. To my ears, the Lorenz are simply too subdued. One of my go-to tracks is Nora Jones, "Come Away With Me," and even with the mid-range forward Fivre 6BX7, the Lorenz are still too subdued, Something is still missing. But if I add in a touch of GEC magic (U18/20), her voice really comes alive. It is almost palpable.
> 
> ...


Which leads me to an unanswered question: Can Hexfred rectifiers be tuned for different sounds?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Which leads me to an unanswered question: Can Hexfred rectifiers be tuned for different sounds?



Well, I do not understand this well enough to use "engineering speak" but I can try to appeal to your intuition....

It may well be possible, But I doubt it is worth the time and effort to literally create and add in complex harmonic wave forms to mimic a desired tube rectifier.

And I should note that solid state rectifiers are not free of harmonic distortion. Different solid state rectifiers have different sounds due to the fact that they all have different distortion products. One of the most desirable features of the HEXFRED is that it's distortion products resemble those of a vacuum tube. To my ears, the HEXFRED has a sound similar to the Cossor 53KU. So anyway, it would be necessary to somehow "erase" the sound of the HEXFRED and add in a different sound. And it certainly seems to me that this would not be a trivial thing to do....


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Not much has been posted recently regarding tube rectifiers... But there are quite a few GOTL out there designed to use 5-volt rectifers. So even though I am admittedly very far out in vacuum-tube rectifier left field, I thought this might be of interest to some...
> 
> With the plug-in HEXFRED, I haven't been all that impressed with the old embossed Lorenz C3g no matter which output tubes they were paired with. To my ears, the Lorenz are simply too subdued. One of my go-to tracks is Nora Jones, "Come Away With Me," and even with the mid-range forward Fivre 6BX7, the Lorenz are still too subdued, Something is still missing. But if I add in a touch of GEC magic (U18/20), her voice really comes alive. It is almost palpable.
> 
> ...




The GEC U18/20 is one of my favorite rectifiers.
If i want a more warmer sound from the C3g tubes, Lorenz fills that spot....Siemens are more dynamic....I compare the Lorenz sound to an RCA driver tube in its more laid back approach


----------



## leftside

I sometimes run early 1950's black plate RCA 12AX7 in my main amps if I have some particularly bright music I want to tame. I find them to be amongst the warmest (even almost dark) tubes I have. Not sure if the early 1950's black plate 6SN7's are the same?


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> I sometimes run early 1950's black plate RCA 12AX7 in my main amps if I have some particularly bright music I want to tame. I find them to be amongst the warmest (even almost dark) tubes I have. Not sure if the early 1950's black plate 6SN7's are the same?



While I have no experience with any 12AX7, I think it is safe to say that the 1940's gray glass RCA 6SN7GT can be described as warm and dark, but also, very musical with a rich, lush midrange. With a little effort to select complimentary output tubes and a rectifier, it can be quite splendid.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> While I have no experience with any 12AX7, I think it is safe to say that the 1940's gray glass RCA 6SN7GT can be described as warm and dark, but also, very musical with a rich, lush midrange. With a little effort to select complimentary output tubes and a rectifier, it can be quite splendid.


Ken, Left is one of the unbelievers of rectifier tubes. 

How about 1940's RCA 6F8Gs? I like those.


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> Ken, Left is one of the unbelievers of rectifier tubes.


It maybe because I have so many other components and tubes in the rest of my system, that with a single rectifier tube change I don't notice much of a difference. I'm ready to try again with the GOTL


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Ken, Left is one of the unbelievers of rectifier tubes.
> 
> How about 1940's RCA 6F8Gs? I like those.



As Leftside points out, in a very complex system it may well be that swapping out rectifiers has little impact. But since my system is very simple, swapping out rectifiers can indeed make a substantial difference.

I haven't listened to an RCA 6F8G in a very long time. I seem to remember that it sounded very similar to the very early gray glass RCA 6SN7GT. What do you think?


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> It maybe because I have so many other components and tubes in the rest of my system, that with a single rectifier tube change I don't notice much of a difference. I'm ready to try again with the GOTL



Your OTL will have to use massive rectifier tubes 5CU4s unless you put in less output tubes or go to 6BX7s for outputs.


----------



## leftside (Aug 27, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Your OTL will have to use massive rectifier tubes 5CU4s unless you put in less output tubes or go to 6BX7s for outputs.


Already purchased! And really given the choice, I'd rather go with the extra power. I also have many more power and driver tubes than rectifiers to roll.


----------



## attmci

leftside said:


> Already purchased! And really given the choice, I'd rather go with the extra power. I also have many more power and driver tubes than rectifiers to roll.


Don't forget to purchase a box of fuses too. LOL


----------



## leftside

Have them for all my amps


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Already purchased! And really given the choice, I'd rather go with the extra power. I also have many more power and driver tubes than rectifiers to roll.



I really just use 5CU4 and 3DG4 but have been using the GZ37


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Have them for all my amps


Just opened up Pandora's box on the impact of fuses on sound. After reading post after post of people who are, shall we say, "politely criticizing" each other, I have a head ache.





A bargain for $61. All metal parts treated with Furutech’s patented Alpha Super Cryogenic and Demagnetizing process. These beautifully made audiophile fuses are engineered to withstand 1 nanosecond at a full 1500 watts, and rated at 125mA/6.3A.

I am really convinced that these fuses make a big difference. In the cash register....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Just opened up Pandora's box on the impact of fuses on sound. After reading post after post of people who are, shall we say, "politely criticizing" each other, I have a head ache.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




NICE!!

You had me goin' good  

In the cash register....hahahahaha!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> NICE!!
> 
> You had me goin' good
> 
> In the cash register....hahahahaha!!!



A rip off do you think the fuse makes a difference.
After the $61 fuse get a $1000 power cord that will make a difference in sombody's wallet not in the sound.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 27, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> A rip off do you think the fuse makes a difference.
> After the $61 fuse get a $1000 power cord that will make a difference in sombody's wallet not in the sound.



Haha!  No, I was laughing at the thought that someone thinks the fuse would make a difference!

Power cord too...electricity gets made miles and miles away - gets transmitted through goodness knows WHAT kind of wires and the last 3 feet is gonna make it "magic"...don't think so!



Most folks also do not realize that 60hz electricity, means...the voltage swings between the source (generator) and every outlet served by that generator....60 times....per second!


----------



## rnros (Aug 27, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> A rip off do you think the fuse makes a difference.
> After the $61 fuse get a $1000 power cord that will make a difference in sombody's wallet not in the sound.



Glenn, check your PM.

Know anything about the Valvo EL8 tube?
Same pinout as EL3N, 6V/500mA heater, small bottle like the EL2/EL32, but different pentode design, not a revision of those.
Not a true pentode, third screen has support rods but no grid wire. Huge anode plates for that size bottle.
1949 design, 6V version of the 1948 Valvo UL2. Have only seen Valvo label.
Excellent tube, using two as GOTL driver. With my ear and gear, same league as C3g and ECC31.
Cheap! About $10, seen it for less than that. All Valvo gray glass, no red/gold paint like other ELs.

If anyone knows where to find datasheet, post a link.
Have info on various sites but no full spec sheet. Thanks.


----------



## rnros (Aug 27, 2018)

Go down the page to find info and pics on UL2 and EL8:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/the_philips_red_valves_series_part_iii.html?language_id=4

According to this source, Telefunken and TeKaDe also made these. 
Catalog page linked with line item for EL8.

http://www.hupse.eu/radio/tubes/EL8.htm


----------



## gibosi

rnros said:


> Go down the page to find info and pics on UL2 and EL8:
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/the_philips_red_valves_series_part_iii.html?language_id=4
> 
> ...



TeKaDe did manufacture their own tubes in the 1920's and 30's, but by the late 1940's they were sourcing their tubes from Philips. So I think it is likely that that TeKaDe is a rebranded Valvo. And a little trivia, currently, TeKaDe is now part of Alcatel Lucent.


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 27, 2018)

rnros said:


> Glenn, check your PM.
> 
> Know anything about the Valvo EL8 tube?
> Same pinout as EL3N, 6V/500mA heater, small bottle like the EL2/EL32, but different pentode design, not a revision of those.
> ...



You are using a dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter I suppose.
This tube is closer to a beam pentode like the US 6V6 but much less power.
Might make a good driver in the El3N amp? But I use two EL3Ns so heay have the same distortion 180 deg out of phase to cancel it.
No adapter would be needed.
Good find I love cheep tubes that sound good.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el8.html


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> You are using a dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter I suppose.
> This tube is closer to a beam pentode like the US 6V6 but much less power.
> Might make a good driver in the El3N amp? But I use two EL3Ns so heay have the same distortion 180 deg out of phase to cancel it.
> No adapter would be needed.
> ...





2359glenn said:


> You are using a dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter I suppose.
> This tube is closer to a beam pentode like the US 6V6 but much less power.
> Might make a good driver in the El3N amp? But I use two EL3Ns so heay have the same distortion 180 deg out of phase to cancel it.
> No adapter would be needed.
> ...



Hi Glenn,
Some time back you asked me for my impression on 6x6BL7 vs 6x6BX7. It took me a while to get things sorted out with the GOTL - no fault by the amp, but all kinds of gremlins re tubes and adapters.
Finally got it to run clean on all six cylinders using 6 6BX7 tubes. It was so nice that I didn't want to change - what if I couldn't get everything to work well again?
Anyhow, with foreboding I took the plunge today and switched to 6x6BL7. I have some 25 such tubes, and picked the ones that looked newish and close enough to be called pairs. 
Also decided not to use socket savers since I found that they could introduce hum. No need for them to act as insulators since the amp does not get hot. Maybe I will use them with 5A tubes for this purpose, though. Managed to break off one guide pin on a socket saver - hopefully a little crazy glue will fix it.
Found 4 GEs and a pair of shorter RCA side getter tubes. GTA and GTB tubes. Figured out that if they were a little different they would get lost in the crowd.




At first I tried with a Sylvania/Baldwin 12AU7A driver that sounded great with the 6x6BX7 tubes.



How do I know if this tube is from 1952 or 1962? 
But it sounded too harsh and sharp with the BLs. How to tame them? Decided to try a lush and softer sounding tube - the TS 6F8G.
I am just sitting here smiling from ear to ear - it sounds delicious! There is more energy in the bass, which is more powerful and detailed than with the 6BX7 tubes, and a beautiful mid range and very clear presentation. Sounds livelier too. On my ss preamp I have to dial back bass and treble a little bit, but I really enjoy this sound.
So far first happy impressions.....


----------



## leftside (Aug 27, 2018)

Are the GE 6BL7's all halo/ring getters or square getters and T plates?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yeppers...what I have been saying...the BL's have more guts in the bass dept.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The BX's work better with C3g...

Everybody else, give me BL's please....


----------



## UntilThen

I am willing to trade my 6bl7s for your 6bx7s.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> You are using a dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter I suppose.
> This tube is closer to a beam pentode like the US 6V6 but much less power.
> Might make a good driver in the El3N amp? But I use two EL3Ns so heay have the same distortion 180 deg out of phase to cancel it.
> No adapter would be needed.
> ...



Yes, dual EL3N adapter. Using the adapter is not so bad with this tube. Smaller tube, not as clumsy as with the EL3N.
And lower current draw. Listening to these for weeks now. Sound was a big surprise. I'll post some comparison notes later.

More importantly, looking forward to hearing the EL3N in your 180 out of phase GEL3N design!!


----------



## whirlwind

I have two Joe Bonamassa Blu Ray concerts.

Anybody wanting one shoot me a pm...the first two pm's will each get one, you just pay shipping only.

USA shipping only....thanks.

  

These two are extras now as I just received the whole set with tickets and meet and greet passes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I am willing to trade my 6bl7s for your 6bx7s.



Thx, but I shall retain mine, exclusively for use witht my C3g's


----------



## Phantaminum (Aug 28, 2018)

I'm really enjoying my HD650s with quad power tubes Chatham 6AS7Gs and a Sylvania 12SN7GT. The headphones sounds wide, punchy, and produces bass! I didn't think the HD650s could sound this great. The E-Mu Teaks almost sound like the Atticus from memory and I can just imagine what the Atticus would sound like from this amp.

I like the Auteurs from the 6336Bs. I find the 6 x 6BX7 works well with other headphones but makes the Auteurs sounds lean. Even with a warm driver tube. Anyone have a combination they enjoy with the Auteurs?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Tube Army:


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> I'm really enjoying my HD650s with quad power tubes Chatham 6AS7Gs and a Sylvania 12SN7GT. The headphones sounds wide, punchy, and produces bass! I didn't think the HD650s could sound this great. The E-Mu Teaks almost sound like the Atticus from memory and I can just imagine what the Atticus would sound like from this amp.
> 
> I like the Auteurs from the 6336Bs. I find the 6 x 6BX7 works well with other headphones but makes the Auteurs sounds lean. Even with a warm driver tube. Anyone have a combination they enjoy with the Auteurs?



No Auteurs here, but would encourage 6BL7 for headphones that need a punchier bass note.

I too am amazed at HD650 in this amp....6BX7 with C3g is really something....I was not so in love with C3g when I first got the amp...but many hours in, and they are sounding much less "sterile" to me, now....


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> No Auteurs here, but would encourage 6BL7 for headphones that need a punchier bass note.
> 
> I too am amazed at HD650 in this amp....6BX7 with C3g is really something....I was not so in love with C3g when I first got the amp...but many hours in, and they are sounding much less "sterile" to me, now....



I'm very impressed with the HD650s. I knew they scaled but not like this. 

I tried the Lorenz c3g paired with the 6BX7s but they sounded closed in. I'll burn them in so I can feel out the tube. I haven't tried the Seimens c3g yet which is on a long burn in to-do list. 

Also are those naked c3gs? You have to take pic of it in the dark. I love the purplish/bluish hue those give off.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> I'm really enjoying my HD650s with quad power tubes Chatham 6AS7Gs and a Sylvania 12SN7GT. The headphones sounds wide, punchy, and produces bass! I didn't think the HD650s could sound this great. The E-Mu Teaks almost sound like the Atticus from memory and I can just imagine what the Atticus would sound like from this amp.
> 
> I like the Auteurs from the 6336Bs. I find the 6 x 6BX7 works well with other headphones but makes the Auteurs sounds lean. Even with a warm driver tube. Anyone have a combination they enjoy with the Auteurs?



Have you tried the Auteurs with a good set of 6AS7 or 5998?


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> Have you tried the Auteurs with a good set of 6AS7 or 5998?



I’ve rolled 4 x Chatham 6AS7Gs with a few tubes but I find them fatiguing. Most were warm tubes and darker tubes: RCA 12SX7/RCA 12SN7/KR 12SN7. I don’t find the 6BX7s fatiguing just a little lean. The 6336Bs sound fantastic to me with the Auteurs. What’s your go to tube pairing with the Auteurs Glenn?

You spoiled from the sound the HD650s and E-Mu Teaks produced matched with the GOTL.

I need to take my advice and circle back later. I need to put in time with the current tubes I have. See what’s a good synergy with the Autuers and purchase those tubes or try out other tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> I'm very impressed with the HD650s. I knew they scaled but not like this.
> 
> I tried the Lorenz c3g paired with the 6BX7s but they sounded closed in. I'll burn them in so I can feel out the tube. I haven't tried the Seimens c3g yet which is on a long burn in to-do list.
> 
> Also are those naked c3gs? You have to take pic of it in the dark. I love the purplish/bluish hue those give off.



Yes, naked Seimens C3g's...I have seen the picture of the C3g's and the blue light....but I have never seen anything even close to that in mine.  Mine look like regular filaments, alit  

And as I said...seems like the amp needs generous burn in time before C3g's come alive....my C3g's are not new - been around for years.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve rolled 4 x Chatham 6AS7Gs with a few tubes but I find them fatiguing. Most were warm tubes and darker tubes: RCA 12SX7/RCA 12SN7/KR 12SN7. I don’t find the 6BX7s fatiguing just a little lean. The 6336Bs sound fantastic to me with the Auteurs. What’s your go to tube pairing with the Auteurs Glenn?
> 
> You spoiled from the sound the HD650s and E-Mu Teaks produced matched with the GOTL.
> 
> I need to take my advice and circle back later. I need to put in time with the current tubes I have. See what’s a good synergy with the Autuers and purchase those tubes or try out other tubes.



Generally, the 6BL7 is a bit warmer than the 6BX7 and might match up better with the Autuers.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I'm really enjoying my HD650s with quad power tubes Chatham 6AS7Gs and a Sylvania 12SN7GT. The headphones sounds wide, punchy, and produces bass! I didn't think the HD650s could sound this great. The E-Mu Teaks almost sound like the Atticus from memory and I can just imagine what the Atticus would sound like from this amp.
> 
> I like the Auteurs from the 6336Bs. I find the 6 x 6BX7 works well with other headphones but makes the Auteurs sounds lean. Even with a warm driver tube. Anyone have a combination they enjoy with the Auteurs?



That simplistically is the difference between (2 or 4 x 6as7) and (6 x 6bx7 or 6bl7). The former lusher and airier, the latter leaner, tighter and more dynamic. I prefer the latter. In the long run, you will determine for yourself which you prefer, irrespective of headphones.

6336 and 5998 again are different. These are marvellous tones. Remember the 5998 is the benchmark of premier tone. I'm quite content to run with 6 x 6bx7 without worrying about the others but the more I talk about the 6bx7, the more I drive it to extinction and higher price.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> That simplistically is the difference between (2 or 4 x 6as7) and (6 x 6bx7 or 6bl7). The former lusher and airier, the latter leaner, tighter and more dynamic. I prefer the latter. In the long run, you will determine for yourself which you prefer, irrespective of headphones.
> 
> 6336 and 5998 again are different. These are marvellous tones. Remember the 5998 is the benchmark of premier tone. I'm quite content to run with 6 x 6bx7 without worrying about the others but the more I talk about the 6bx7, the more I drive it to extinction and higher price.



Ah, so 6AS7Gs are lusher and have more air. 6BX7s are leaner, tighter and more dynamic. 

Good information concerning the sound of the power tubes. I’ll be trying out 6080s and 7236s once I move. Half the fun of this amp is find out what sounds good to myself.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> Ah, so 6AS7Gs are lusher and have more air. 6BX7s are leaner, tighter and more dynamic.
> 
> Good information concerning the sound of the power tubes. I’ll be trying out 6080s and 7236s once I move. Half the fun of this amp is find out what sounds good to myself.



And if your amp uses tube rectifiers, it is possible to add a bit of lushness and/or air to the 6BX7 presentation.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve rolled 4 x Chatham 6AS7Gs with a few tubes but I find them fatiguing. Most were warm tubes and darker tubes: RCA 12SX7/RCA 12SN7/KR 12SN7. I don’t find the 6BX7s fatiguing just a little lean. The 6336Bs sound fantastic to me with the Auteurs. What’s your go to tube pairing with the Auteurs Glenn?
> 
> You spoiled from the sound the HD650s and E-Mu Teaks produced matched with the GOTL.
> 
> I need to take my advice and circle back later. I need to put in time with the current tubes I have. See what’s a good synergy with the Autuers and purchase those tubes or try out other tubes.



With the HD50 and HD800s I used el cheapo Russian 6H13 have been using 6336 with the Autuers I think they need more drive for some reason.
My amp is a little different it only uses two #27 drivers.


----------



## UntilThen

Yesterday Juri of Germany contacted me. Said he read 170 pages of the Euforia thread, much of it from me - his words. Also said he followed my audio journey here. He wanted a headphone amp to drive his LCD-3 optimally. Showed me a picture of his main stereo system with Lampizator Golden Gate dac, Air Tight ATE 2001 Pre, etc. Quality stuff.

I said the Glenn OTL amp will drive the LCD-3 optimally. It drove my LCD-2f optimally. Then he ask me which Glenn OTL model. I said to tell Glenn this.


I think he has ordered a GOTL. Juri feel free to come on here and talk. You will find a lot more like minded people here.


----------



## attmci (Aug 28, 2018)

gibosi said:


> And if your amp uses tube rectifiers, it is possible to add a bit of lushness and/or air to the 6BX7 presentation.



Use which one?

This?(BTW, I bet the seller is UT. )
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-GZ34-Vintage-Mullard-Holland-Rare-Metal-base-Strong-Testing-/142912164584?hash=item21463a92e8:g:-zYAAOSw0INbe9Bk&nma=true&si=IRUVMrpPU1TezU9tHw1SwmYvKq8%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Or this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Good-GE-...vip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l44720

Have anyone tried the 1641/RK-60? Glenn used to give it away.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Use which one?
> 
> This?(BTW, I bet the seller is UT. )
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-GZ34-Vintage-Mullard-Holland-Rare-Metal-base-Strong-Testing-/142912164584?hash=item21463a92e8:g:-zYAAOSw0INbe9Bk&nma=true&si=IRUVMrpPU1TezU9tHw1SwmYvKq8%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> ...



Yes, Holland-made Philips rectifiers, like the metal-based GZ34, or if you want to live on the wild side, the 4-volt 1817, will add a bit of lushness to the sound. For air, it is hard to beat GEC / Marconi-Osram rectifiers, although for considerably less money, there are two European-made 5R4GY that are really very nice. My favorite of the two is the Brimar, but the French-made La Radiotechnique / Dario is a close second.

I don't have the 1641. Maybe someday....  But I already have too many tubes and not enough time.... lol


----------



## UntilThen

Attmci you mean this? 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-Base...m=192633493510&_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985

Hurry up you have 56 mins left.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Yesterday Juri of Germany contacted me. Said he read 170 pages of the Euforia thread, much of it from me - his words. Also said he followed my audio journey here. He wanted a headphone amp to drive his LCD-3 optimally. Showed me a picture of his main stereo system with Lampizator Golden Gate dac, Air Tight ATE 2001 Pre, etc. Quality stuff.
> 
> I said the Glenn OTL amp will drive the LCD-3 optimally. It drove my LCD-2f optimally. Then he ask me which Glenn OTL model. I said to tell Glenn this.
> 
> ...




Yes he contacted me
Thanks UT


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Attmci you mean this?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-Base-MULLARD-5AR4-GZ34-Tests-NOS-with-balanced-sides-1957/192633493510?_trkparms=aid=777003&algo=DISCL.MBE&ao=2&asc=52935&meid=d00466084e1f4cedbb37aec382e66ff6&pid=100012&rk=3&rkt=12&mehot=es&sd=142912164584&itm=192633493510&_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985
> 
> Hurry up you have 56 mins left.



Hey, Matt, you have another one for sale?  I believe I got eBay message earlier today, everything is 15% off. Good luck!


----------



## JazzVinyl

This little Mazda ECC804 that was shipped from the UK....very very close to my c3g's!!

C3g's have a bit more texture to lower mids and more separation in the treble. 

But surprised how close in tonality these are.  

Listening:


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Yesterday Juri of Germany contacted me. Said he read 170 pages of the Euforia thread, much of it from me - his words. Also said he followed my audio journey here. He wanted a headphone amp to drive his LCD-3 optimally.


Lampizator + Glenn + LCD-3 is a good combo


----------



## JazzVinyl

Wow...ECC804 make Bobo...GoGo..!!  Great driver in this amp! Poor man C3g's


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes he contacted me
> Thanks UT



A pleasure Glenn. I have to recommend the best cigar.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Hey, Matt, you have another one for sale?  I believe I got eBay message earlier today, everything is 15% off. Good luck!



I am not buying a GZ34 metal base. I sold off my black base.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Lampizator + Glenn + LCD-3 is a good combo



Oh well you have already sampled it in that configuration but with Glenn 300b. That should be amazing.

Where’s @Gkar?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mazda ECC804...does:


----------



## Xcalibur255

That's interesting your C3gs would give off a blue glow.  My pair is the typical orange color.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Xcalibur255 said:


> That's interesting your C3gs would give off a blue glow.  My pair is the typical orange color.



There is that picture of C3g's doing a blue glow but mine have never done any such thing either.  Think the picture from "somewhere on the net' not anyone's original photography in here....correct me if wrong.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Trio heaven, peeps.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> There is that picture of C3g's doing a blue glow but mine have never done any such thing either.  Think the picture from "somewhere on the net' not anyone's original photography in here....correct me if wrong.



C3g's will do that in the 300B amp when fed with  425 volts and your amps have a max of 250.


----------



## mordy (Aug 29, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> C3g's will do that in the 300B amp when fed with  425 volts and your amps have a max of 250.


I found that glorious picture somewhere on the net from somebody in Sweden:



My favorite tube picture


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I found that glorious picture somewhere on the net from somebody in Sweden:
> 
> My favorite tube picture



But here is the question Mordy....

Ever seen YOUR C3g's glow blue like that?


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> But here is the question Mordy....
> 
> Ever seen YOUR C3g's glow blue like that?


No.
First of all I leave the shields on on my C3g tubes, and secondly, I don't own a 300B amp with the higher plate voltage that produces that beautiful blueish glow.


----------



## gibosi

You want blue?

Get a mercury-vapor rectifier. In this case, a Philips AX 50

 

Or just get a pair with blue glass: Arcturus #27.

.


----------



## Althalus

@gibosi 

Some questions. 
1) Am I correct that we need an adapter in the gotl for the ax50. 
2) what tubes can we use as powers if we use the ax50 as rectifier instead of the 3dg4. 

PS, I know that your #27 need 2,5v.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> You want blue?
> 
> Get a mercury-vapor rectifier. In this case, a Philips AX 50
> 
> ...


All you want to know and more about blue glow in vacuum tubes:
http://www.jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/blueglow/blueglow.htm


----------



## Xcalibur255

I have a single pair of 45 tubes that exhibit fluorescence.  Sadly they are the worst sounding pair and I never use them.  I have put them in a couple of times just to see the light show.


----------



## gibosi (Aug 29, 2018)

Althalus said:


> @gibosi
> 
> Some questions.
> 1) Am I correct that we need an adapter in the gotl for the ax50.
> ...



Yes, the AX 50 is a 4-volt rectifier on a European B4 base. See an earlier post regarding a suitable adapter for use in Glenn's amps:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1412#post-14315557

The AX 50 can provide up to 275ma, and thus, in a typical Glenn OTL, there are no caveats. It can be used in place of the 3DG4 with two 6336, four 6AS7 or six 6BL7. However, I would encourage you to do a little research regarding mercury-vapor rectifiers. There is a certain degree of risk. Hot mercury-vapor is a poison. So I encourage you to do your due diligence before lighting one of these up.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot....   It is best if you can pre-heat this rectifier. Otherwise, it tends to arc. To preheat, apply 3.75A at 4V to the cathode for a few minutes before applying any voltage to the anode. I use a separate external socket with the cathodes connected to an external heater power supply. There are no other connections. And after a few minutes, I immediately insert it into the Glenn and turn it on as usual.

Given the need for preheating and the health risk, albeit very small, I confess that this rectifier has been stored away on a shelf for the last several years.


----------



## Althalus

gibosi said:


> Yes, the AX 50 is a 4-volt rectifier on a European B4 base. See an earlier post regarding a suitable adapter for use in Glenn's amps:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1412#post-14315557
> 
> The AX 50 can provide up to 275ma, and thus, in a typical Glenn OTL, there are no caveats. It can be used in place of the 3DG4 with two 6336, four 6AS7 or six 6BL7. However, I would encourage you to do a little research regarding mercury-vapor rectifiers. There is a certain degree of risk. Hot mercury-vapor is a poison. So I encourage you to do your due diligence before lighting one of these up.



Thank you for the complete answer. And it's good to know that we can use it with all the tubes we use with the "standard" rectifier. 

Not that I want to use the tube (but who knows the future). First, for me, start with the 3dg4 and in the future maybe a 5v rectifier.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> You want blue?
> 
> Get a mercury-vapor rectifier. In this case, a Philips AX 50
> 
> ...





FDD20 also has beautiful blue glass....


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> C3g's will do that in the 300B amp when fed with  425 volts and your amps have a max of 250.


I'm going to undress a couple of my C3g's. I have lot's of them, so can afford to lose a couple with this little experiment.


----------



## UntilThen

It's 2 degrees centigrade now so I don't mind any colour as long as it's hot. Amp's been running for an hour now. Putting my hand on the top plate and it's still cold.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> It's 2 degrees centigrade now so I don't mind any colour as long as it's hot. Amp's been running for an hour now. Putting my hand on the top plate and it's still cold.



Hot as dripping asphalt, in the USA....


----------



## attmci (Aug 29, 2018)

gibosi said:


> Yes, Holland-made Philips rectifiers, like the metal-based GZ34, or if you want to live on the wild side, the 4-volt 1817, will add a bit of lushness to the sound. For air, it is hard to beat GEC / Marconi-Osram rectifiers, although for considerably less money, there are two European-made 5R4GY that are really very nice. My favorite of the two is the Brimar, but the French-made La Radiotechnique / Dario is a close second.
> 
> I don't have the 1641. Maybe someday....  But I already have too many tubes and not enough time.... lol


1641/RK-60 is a good rectifier tube. You should have at least one.


----------



## Xcalibur255

leftside said:


> I'm going to undress a couple of my C3g's. I have lot's of them, so can afford to lose a couple with this little experiment.



Hopefully you don't stab yourself (twice) like I did.  It's a lot like opening a can without a can-opener, only the inside of the can is also lined with glass.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It's 2 degrees centigrade now so I don't mind any colour as long as it's hot. Amp's been running for an hour now. Putting my hand on the top plate and it's still cold.



It was 40 deg C here today want some of that!!!


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> FDD20 also has beautiful blue glass....



Yes the FDD20 is blue, subtle and delicate... and then there is BLUE!


----------



## JazzVinyl

My miniwatt FDD20 is a bit bluer than yours, g...  

But we are not talking about blue glass here, were talking about a blue glow instead of an amber glow....


----------



## gibosi (Aug 29, 2018)

attmci said:


> 1641/RK-60 is a good rectifier tube. You should have at least one.



I admit that I allowed myself to be influenced by DubstepGirl's review, maybe overly so, and when faced with the choice between the 596 and the 1641, I went with the 596, for sure, a very good rectifier.


----------



## Phantaminum

Trying out different combinations in the amp. 

Plug back in the 4 x Chatham 6AS7Gs and loving the synergy it has with HD650s. 

Take out the 12SN7 Sylvania and think it couldn't get better. 

Go back into the box of goodies and finally decide to pop in the Siemens c3gs. All I have to say is:


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> Hopefully you don't stab yourself (twice) like I did.  It's a lot like opening a can without a can-opener, only the inside of the can is also lined with glass.


Funny that I also stabbed my finger prying off the aluminum cover. Some people used sand paper or a file to file off the bottom circumference of the shroud- seems safer.
Then you have the problem of loose parts in the base and you have to mark off the guide pin location in the base, not to speak of the fragile glass envelope.
There are detailed posts about how to take off the cover and reassemble the tube base.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> I admit that I allowed myself to be influenced by DubstepGirl's review, maybe overly so, and when faced with the choice between the 596 and the 1641, I went with the 596, for sure, a very good rectifier.



A very serious looking  device you have there, to saw off 1/2 the voltage swing of alternating current, gibosi!

Very cool...!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 29, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Trying out different combinations in the amp.
> 
> Plug back in the 4 x Chatham 6AS7Gs and loving the synergy it has with HD650s.
> 
> ...



Which  model of  Syl 12SN7?

Now that you have c3g fresh in mind....compare to Syl 6SN7W...

I am staying with 6x 6BX7 and British made Mazda ECC804 (little dual C3g...) tonight and:



I know, I know...there are MORE than 3 musicians.....

I am digging the HD580's w/aftermarket silver cable...more midrange tha HD650's...


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Funny that I also stabbed my finger prying off the aluminum cover. Some people used sand paper or a file to file off the bottom circumference of the shroud- seems safer.
> Then you have the problem of loose parts in the base and you have to mark off the guide pin location in the base, not to speak of the fragile glass envelope.
> There are detailed posts about how to take off the cover and reassemble the tube base.



Was surprised when I had to glue the base cover back on


----------



## UntilThen

I'm gonna play the blues for you. Through these Gold Lion Genalex E88CC/6922 driver with a pair of gorgeous Cetron 6336b. I'm going to use the Audeze LCD-2f. The rest of my gear you know. Yggdrasil and the amp of many talents - Glenn Super 9 OTL amp.

So many good tones from so many tube combinations. So sit back and relax.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I'm gonna play the blues for you. Through these Gold Lion Genalex E88CC/6922 driver with a pair of gorgeous Cetron 6336b. I'm going to use the Audeze LCD-2f. The rest of my gear you know. Yggdrasil and the amp of many talents - Glenn Super 9 OTL amp.
> 
> So many good tones from so many tube combinations. So sit back and relax.




No 6336 here at 40 deg C the AC is struggling to keep up with out 6336s


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> No 6336 here at 40 deg C the AC is struggling to keep up with out 6336s



6336 is a winter tube. 

Swap the Gold Lion for a Mullard M8136. More ooomph now. More meaty. Gold Lion 6922 is tighter and leaner. Both nice. Different presentation. The Mullard sounds better to my ears. The 6336s has drive. It's moving the planar headphones like a hurricane. These tubes are like indestructible.

And for a night time shot. The OTL amp looks very photogenic. It's a very good looking headphone amp to my eyes. It looks as good as it sounds.


----------



## zach915m

gibosi said:


> I admit that I allowed myself to be influenced by DubstepGirl's review, maybe overly so, and when faced with the choice between the 596 and the 1641, I went with the 596, for sure, a very good rectifier.



@Dubstep Girl's rectifier thread is one of the great contributions in head-fi history IMHO, whether you agree with the notes or not, it's a great resource for those getting involved in swapping those rectifier's!

Gel3n came in yesterday - it's fabulous.  Some pics and more later.  Been having fun swapping out those rectifiers.


----------



## rnros

zach915m said:


> @Dubstep Girl's rectifier thread is one of the great contributions in head-fi history IMHO, whether you agree with the notes or not, it's a great resource for those getting involved in swapping those rectifier's!
> 
> Gel3n came in yesterday - it's fabulous.  Some pics and more later.  Been having fun swapping out those rectifiers.



Congrats on the GEL3N, Zach. Will look forward to your pics and further impressions.
EL3N is a great sounding tube, looking forward to hearing it in my own GEL3N soon.
So tell us more about how those rectifiers sound in GEL3N as you roll them.

Enjoy!


----------



## 2359glenn

zach915m said:


> @Dubstep Girl's rectifier thread is one of the great contributions in head-fi history IMHO, whether you agree with the notes or not, it's a great resource for those getting involved in swapping those rectifier's!
> 
> Gel3n came in yesterday - it's fabulous.  Some pics and more later.  Been having fun swapping out those rectifiers.



GZ37  !!!!!!!


----------



## mordy

Haven't gotten any word on how long it takes for the GOTL to burn in, but definitively something changed by now and there is more energy in the bass. Maybe because I am using a platoon of 6BL7 tubes - the 6BL7 have more low end grunt than the 6BX7, but I also think that the amp itself contributes to the increased bass by now.
Tried several drivers with the 6BL7 which all turned out to be too bright. Then I put in the OEM 1633 tube. It did not impress me before, but now it sings!
I figured that it has been sleeping since 1943 so needs to burn in. Probably at least some (or all) of the 6BL7 tubes as well. So I left the amp on for 36 hours straight - hope it doesn't void the warranty LOL. Left a 4" PC fan on, just in case - the amp barely gets warm in 76F room temperature.
Using speakers it really sounds splendid with great low bass. What do they call it - palpable bass.....
My HD650 sounds better than ever now as well.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Aug 30, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Was surprised when I had to glue the base cover back on


You'll be surprised again when you try to take the tubes out some months later and the base stays in the socket when the tube comes out.  I completely gave up on the bases...... just put a red dot on the glass to indicate where the guide pin was so I could get the pins in the right place still.  I also haven't used these tubes since I gave up on those bases (they're a real pain to get out of the locking socket without the tube itself to hold onto), so I have no idea if it's an issue to operate the tubes without them.  My understanding is that the guide pin is used for electrical grounding, but I don't think it is mandatory.


----------



## Xcalibur255

zach915m said:


> @Dubstep Girl's rectifier thread is one of the great contributions in head-fi history IMHO, whether you agree with the notes or not, it's a great resource for those getting involved in swapping those rectifier's!
> 
> Gel3n came in yesterday - it's fabulous.  Some pics and more later.  Been having fun swapping out those rectifiers.


I respect the effort that was put into it, but I still feel that article was misleading for a lot of people.  The results of that testing are only valid for the amp she was using to do the listening/testing IMO.  It would have been better to post it in the owners thread for that amp where it would be directly applicable and helpful, rather than apply the impressions generically to the rectifiers themselves.


----------



## mordy

Hi X255,
It seems to me that the metal casing on the C3g tubes has a function; maybe similar to the black coating inside the glass on the TS BGRP tubes - shielding against RF interference?
I have also come to the realization that the same tube may sound different in different amps. And then synergy with other tubes is very important. 
I still would like to think that a certain select group of tubes has the potential to sound good across the board in all amps...


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Which  model of  Syl 12SN7?
> 
> Now that you have c3g fresh in mind....compare to Syl 6SN7W...
> 
> ...



Hey JV,

It’s a Sylvania chrome top, getter flash doesn’t extend to the bottom, green label with a vertical date 12sn7. With the HD650s and four Chatham 6as7gs it gives it extension on both ends while having great mids.

I think I got them pretty cheap. Here’s an eBay listing of exactly what they look like:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192633558766

Comparing both the c3g to the Sylvania 6SN7W is a bit harder. I’ll keep try to keep it simple and as a mesurement stick I lean towards a lush sound.

With that said, I enjoy the HD650 with the c3g compared to the 6sn7w. The Siemens is tighter, a tad bit faster, and more forceful. The 6sn7w is not as forceful but has a slightly larger sound stage (it’s a HD650) and leaner. The c3g bring some type of magic in this combination. It feels like the headphones are removed and you just get music.

With the Auteurs I enjoy the 6sn7w with a sixtet of 6bx7s. Just sounds very natural and smooth. The c3gs still sound great but the 6sn7w has even greater synergy with these headphones. Huge sound stage with the Auteurs, smooth/liquid, and same detail as the c3g. I can turn up the volume more in this combination. 

I love the Sylvania but the Siemens really surprised me.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Hey JV,
> 
> It’s a Sylvania chrome top, getter flash doesn’t extend to the bottom, green label with a vertical date 12sn7. With the HD650s and four Chatham 6as7gs it gives it extension on both ends while having great mids.
> 
> ...



I was listening to your amp with Auteurs driven by six 6BX7 and a 13D1. I don't have a 6SN7W
Sounded great to me!


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> I was listening to your amp with Auteurs driven by six 6BX7 and a 13D1. I don't have a 6SN7W
> Sounded great to me!



That’s another great combination. I’ve enjoyed the Auteurs with the 6sn7ws, the 13D1, and the Osram B63. All great sounding tubes. 

With the HD650 the c3g really just wow me.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Hey JV,
> 
> It’s a Sylvania chrome top, getter flash doesn’t extend to the bottom, green label with a vertical date 12sn7. With the HD650s and four Chatham 6as7gs it gives it extension on both ends while having great mids.
> 
> ...


Hi P,
I think that I have the same tube, but labeled Honeywell. The number 312 indicates Sylvania, and this tube was made in 1957:




And as a rebranded tube it fetches a lower price.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi P,
> I think that I have the same tube, but labeled Honeywell. The number 312 indicates Sylvania, and this tube was made in 1957:
> 
> And as a rebranded tube it fetches a lower price.



Hey Mordy,

Looks like the same tube. There’s is also the Sylvania 6sn7gtb/12sn7gtb that look exactly like the GT versions.

Like these:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/123224250887

Maybe @gibosi can tell us how to tell a difference? They look the same to my eyes.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I think I got them pretty cheap. Here’s an eBay listing of exactly what they look like:
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192633558766



I was going to buy these but then I ask myself, ‘Don’t I have enough drivers already?’

My amp is on my screen. Going interstate for a few days. Will miss my head-fi.


----------



## myphone

Phantaminum said:


> Hey Mordy,
> 
> Looks like the same tube. There’s is also the Sylvania 6sn7gtb/12sn7gtb that look exactly like the GT versions.
> 
> ...



These are later year GT/GTA/GTB tubes. There are 5 holes. Earlier ones have either 2 holes or 3 holes (1952, badboy).


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


> These are later year GT/GTA/GTB tubes. There are 5 holes. Earlier ones have either 2 holes or 3 holes (1952, badboy).


The GT, GTA and GTB all are slightly different in their electrical characteristics but the audible difference may be very small between the GTA and GTB, if any. 
The GT was the earliest version and some people prefer those. Older is better - no?


----------



## Phantaminum

myphone said:


> These are later year GT/GTA/GTB tubes. There are 5 holes. Earlier ones have either 2 holes or 3 holes (1952, badboy).



For rebrands how do you tell if they are GTs or GTA/Bs? I also thought the Bad Boys had the flash getter at the bottom of the tube?


----------



## myphone (Aug 30, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> For rebrands how do you tell if they are GTs or GTA/Bs? I also thought the Bad Boys had the flash getter at the bottom of the tube?



Yes, early GTs/VT231 (before 1953) have bottom getter, including bad boy.  The only early top getter tubes i have seen are W's (6SN7W or 6SN7WGT).

There are two types of GTAs (3 holes and 5 holes). I have not seen 3 hole GTB yet.


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


> Yes, early GTs (VT231) have bottom getter, including bad boy.  The only early top getter tubes i have seen are W's (6SN7W or 6SN7WGT)





Phantaminum said:


> For rebrands how do you tell if they are GTs or GTA/Bs? I also thought the Bad Boys had the flash getter at the bottom of the tube?


Normally Sylvania tubes have markings on the top of tube and here you can see which revision it is. My tube (pictured above) says GT. It may also say on the glass. Sometimes the print is very faint and you have to hold the tube at different angles and in different light to be able to read the markings.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> Hey Mordy,
> 
> Looks like the same tube. There’s is also the Sylvania 6sn7gtb/12sn7gtb that look exactly like the GT versions.
> 
> ...



In 1954, Sylvania introduced their 6SN7GTA with ribbed obliquely oriented plates and a wafer stem. The earlier GT had "t"-plates, with two or three rivet holes, oriented parallel, and a flat pressed glass stem. The new, more compact GTA design was said to be less microphonic and able to accommodate larger peak plate voltages with better heat dissipation. And finally, the GT has a rectangular top mica with teeth, whereas, the GTA has an oversize round top mica with teeth

To the best of my knowledge, there are no easy to see construction differences between the GTA and the later GTB, when it was first introduced.


----------



## UntilThen

Don’t forget to get some el cheapo Sylvania 7n7.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Don’t forget to get some el cheapo Sylvania 7n7.



And you will find Sylvanai 7N7 with the older GT plates as well as the newer GTA plates....


----------



## UntilThen

And the 7F7 if you can find it.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> And the 7F7 if you can find it.



And don't forget the 12 volt versions:

14N7, 14F7 and also, 14AF7


----------



## UntilThen

Alright getting an overdose.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> Trying out different combinations in the amp.
> 
> Plug back in the 4 x Chatham 6AS7Gs and loving the synergy it has with HD650s.
> 
> ...




I have a few sets of the Chatham 6AS7G tubes and I will definitely be trying four of these in my amp.


----------



## Althalus

Back to an earlier discussion. 

After the discussion a while ago about the 6n7 I decided to buy some for my coming gotl. 
I got today 2 metal ones, labelled Sylvania and three cokebottles. 2 different labelled, but identical looking with 4 pairs of pins on top and the stopsign on the glass. One says Ken-Rad with the Code 08 the other GM, genuine parts and Code S7. The third one reads Ken-Rad with code TD and has no markings on the glass and the 4 pairs of pins on top have small plates attached to them. 
Does anybody know how I can see who manufactured them?


----------



## Althalus




----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> I have a few sets of the Chatham 6AS7G tubes and I will definitely be trying four of these in my amp.



I like it more lush than neutral. With Chathams and c3g it gives the best of both worlds on the HD650. Very detailed, tight, with a full body. I’ve been wondering how this combination sounds with the Atticus. I can imagine feeling those snare hits and kick drums as if your were there.


----------



## gibosi

Althalus said:


> Back to an earlier discussion.
> 
> After the discussion a while ago about the 6n7 I decided to buy some for my coming gotl.
> I got today 2 metal ones, labelled Sylvania and three cokebottles. 2 different labelled, but identical looking with 4 pairs of pins on top and the stopsign on the glass. One says Ken-Rad with the Code 08 the other GM, genuine parts and Code S7. The third one reads Ken-Rad with code TD and has no markings on the glass and the 4 pairs of pins on top have small plates attached to them.
> Does anybody know how I can see who manufactured them?



The only way to know the manufacturer for sure is to compare construction. For me, this usually involves comparing the tube I have in my hands to lots of pictures on the web. However, I don't have any 6N7G and therefore, I haven't studied them...

Ken-Rad's prewar date codes were one letter and one number. The code "08" is strange. The letter "O" was omitted given that it could be confused with the number "0". So this code combination wasn't used. Further, the Delco with Code S7, also doesn't fit. The codes for 1937 went from A7 to L7. By 1947, GE had purchased Ken-Rad and I am not sure if they were still using this date code after the war. And your third tube, with Code TD also doesn't fit. Maybe some of the others here, who actually have some 6N7G might be able to help.

As for the Sylvania metal tubes. Look for letters and numbers embossed on the side of the base. For example, the RCA pictured below, on the left, "6N7" and "H4". The Ken-Rad on the right, "13-". I am not positive that Sylvania even manufactured the metal 6N7, but if they did I would assume that they too would have embossed identifying marks of some kind in the event that all the painted markings were missing.

Good luck!


----------



## Althalus

gibosi said:


> The only way to know the manufacturer for sure is to compare construction. For me, this usually involves comparing the tube I have in my hands to lots of pictures on the web. However, I don't have any 6N7G and therefore, I haven't studied them...
> 
> Ken-Rad's prewar date codes were one letter and one number. The code "08" is strange. The letter "O" was omitted given that it could be confused with the number "0". So this code combination wasn't used. Further, the Delco with Code S7, also doesn't fit. The codes for 1937 went from A7 to L7. By 1947, GE had purchased Ken-Rad and I am not sure if they were still using this date code after the war. And your third tube, with Code TD also doesn't fit. Maybe some of the others here, who actually have some 6N7G might be able to help.
> 
> ...



Hi Gibosi, Thank you.
I did take a look at the metal Sylvania .
The base shows nothing exept small traces of oxidation of the metal.
On the tubes itself is in green the leaf, the name Sylvania with underneath made in USA , a stopsign with 6n7. And a code , Z1 for one tube, VOR for the other .
Under the base is the text "licenced only to extent   indicated on carton".

And one tube came in original box, but I can't see anything as the standard printing, no numbers or dates.

I checked the cokebottles again .TD might be TO or T0
For the identical GM/Ken-Rad I do include these pictures, showing the stopsign and the codes on the base.


----------



## Thaddy

Is Glenn still taking order for tube amps?  What's the process to go about acquiring one?


----------



## 2359glenn

Thaddy said:


> Is Glenn still taking order for tube amps?  What's the process to go about acquiring one?



Send me a PM
Glenn


----------



## gibosi (Aug 31, 2018)

Althalus said:


> I did take a look at the metal Sylvania .
> The base shows nothing exept small traces of oxidation of the metal.
> On the tubes itself is in green the leaf, the name Sylvania with underneath made in USA , a stopsign with 6n7. And a code , Z1 for one tube, VOR for the other .
> Under the base is the text "licenced only to extent indicated on carton".
> ...



T0 is a valid Ken-Rad date code, May, 1941. However, this was not the date of manufacture, it was the date the manufacturer's warrantee expired. So the tube was likely manufactured about 12 months earlier.

The Sylvania codes are also valid. Z1 indicates the second quarter of 1941. And V0R indicates the third quarter of 1940. R indicates that it was sold as a replacement tube. That is, it was not installed in a radio at the time of purchase.

And regarding the other two, 08 and S7, even though they do not conform to Ken-Rad's prerwar code, given that the bases are not hot-stamped, but silk-screened, I would guess 08 = 1948 and S7 = 1947. GE took control of Ken-Rad in 1945, but continued to use the Ken-Rad brand for replacement tubes until at least 1950. It is my understanding that in 1948, GE began to use Y-MM pattern for dating, but between 1945 to 1948, it would seem that something different was being used on Ken-Rad tubes. But of course, I don't know for sure, I can only speculate....


----------



## Althalus

gibosi said:


> T0 is a valid Ken-Rad date code, May, 1941. However, this was not the date of manufacture, it was the date the manufacturer's warrantee expired. So the tube was likely manufactured about 12 months earlier.
> 
> The Sylvania codes are also valid. Z1 indicates the second quarter of 1941. And V0R indicates the second quarter of 1940. R indicates that it was sold as a replacement tube. That is, it was not installed in a radio at the time of purchase.
> 
> And regarding the other two, 08 and S7, even though they do not conform to Ken-Rad's prerwar code, given that the bases are not hot-stamped, but silk-screened, I would guess 08 = 1948 and S7 = 1947. GE took control of Ken-Rad in 1945, but continued to use the Ken-Rad brand for replacement tubes until at least 1950. It is my understanding that in 1948, GE began to use Y-MM pattern for dating, but between 1945 to 1948, it would seem that something different was being used on Ken-Rad tubes. But of course, I don't know for sure, I can only speculate....



Thanks a lot gibosi, your knowledge is very usefull for me. You know more than I could find on the net. 

Second quarter of 1940 and May 1940, that's when ww2 started. These must be my oldest tubes so far.


----------



## mordy

I would like to tell about an amazing customer service experience. My Beyerdynamic T1 Gen1 headphones got damaged from a bad tube and the left driver went out.
I contacted the Beyerdymanic aurthorized factory service United Sound Services in MA. They told me that a new set of drivers out of warranty would cost $250. However,
"For the budget minded we do have some left over used ones from previous repairs that we can try and match to your right side."
Mailed out the headphones Monday and they just came back today Friday. The invoice stated that the technician found a good match.The total bill parts and labor including shipping both ways, was less than $60.
Super nice people and extremely quick turn around.


----------



## Phantaminum

Packed up the amp but before I did I tried the Svetlana 6H13Cs and a Fivre 12sn7 I purchased from another Head-Fier. 

I’ve tried the brown base before and found them ok but these black bases sounded fantastic. I noticed that the black base doesn’t look at all like the brown base. After a little google search I found them to be a Brimar 12sn7.

Great synergy with cheap Russian power tubes and the Auteurs. Anyone know where I could buy more?


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 2, 2018)

6x 6BL7 and ECC804...

And another Trio:




These gents sound best on the HD650's...


Mazda ECC804 remains the "C3g like tone" tube..remarkably so, loving it. 

Thanks to gibosi for suggesting the ECC804...


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Packed up the amp but before I did I tried the Svetlana 6H13Cs and a Fivre 12sn7 I purchased from another Head-Fier.
> 
> I’ve tried the brown base before and found them ok but these black bases sounded fantastic. I noticed that the black base doesn’t look at all like the brown base. After a little google search I found them to be a Brimar 12sn7.
> 
> Great synergy with cheap Russian power tubes and the Auteurs. Anyone know where I could buy more?



Best to get the Svetlana tubes
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N13S-S...600030&hash=item48b13e1af8:g:shwAAOSwZthbbA4n


----------



## 2359glenn

This is not a bad price on a TSBGRP 12SN7
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-TUNG...545529?hash=item2cda26ee79:g:FjoAAOSwBP9bg0hm


----------



## 2359glenn

Not sure about these B36 they look different so who knows who made them.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-MARCON...623994?hash=item41eb8aea7a:g:GGMAAOSwgEhbgq07


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> This is not a bad price on a TSBGRP 12SN7
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-TUNG...545529?hash=item2cda26ee79:g:FjoAAOSwBP9bg0hm



This is a nice deal for Glenn amp owners, a lot of people can't use the 12SN7


----------



## attmci (Sep 2, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> This is a nice deal for Glenn amp owners, a lot of people can't use the 12SN7



Most of the tube amp manufactures are not as smart as Glenn. 

They also afraid the customers may forget to switch  the voltage when switching tubes (like Matt. LOL).


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> Best to get the Svetlana tubes
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N13S-S...600030&hash=item48b13e1af8:g:shwAAOSwZthbbA4n



Thanks for the link Glenn! I'll be stocking up on these especially considering the price.


----------



## zach915m

2359glenn said:


> This is not a bad price on a TSBGRP 12SN7
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-TUNG...545529?hash=item2cda26ee79:g:FjoAAOSwBP9bg0hm



I bought these. =)  The guy actually took a VERY reasonable best offer price.  Just you know...prepping for my OTL!!!!

In the meantime:

 

Been loving my time with the Gel3n.  After sending Glenn the auteur he really brought out the most from it with the Gel3n.  The impact, space and timbre is just a ton of fun and so life-like.  As you can sorta see in the pic, I am running an old Brimar 5U4G that was made by GEC with the rounded base. I also have a skinny Mullard GZ37 that sounds wonderful per Glenn's suggestion!  I have used a few rectifier's so far but to be honest they all sound so good in the amp that I'm just going to let this one sit for a bit before I really try to pick apart the differences.  I'll probably go to the metal base GZ34 soon.

Also I am running it from a vintage Sonic Frontiers SFD-2 MK II which is just awesome.  The combo is incredibly musical and lush without losing any air or space.  I have a bit of a vintage DAC problem as well as the tubes too.  My favorites are the EAD dac's and Sonic Frontiers SFD stuff.

I'll try to chime in more as I get more time with it!


----------



## 2359glenn

The TSBGRP is just about the best sounding driver for the OTL good purchase.


----------



## Phantaminum

zach915m said:


> I bought these. =)  The guy actually took a VERY reasonable best offer price.  Just you know...prepping for my OTL!!!!
> 
> In the meantime:
> 
> ...



That's a fantastic tube Zach and even for a great price! It'll sound good once you pop it in but after you put in a good amount of hours it'll sound fantastic once it  opens up. One of my favorite by far.

That picture is making me lust after the geL3n once again. I bet that amp sounds fantastic with the Auteurs and the ZMF planars.


----------



## JazzVinyl

These are baseballs:

 


But this, has 'Bass Balls':

 

I just compared the Mazda ECC804 to the 1633, 13D1 and the TS BGRP...

This little tube has more bass tha any of the others....

Eye........like it!!!!


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> I just compared the Mazda ECC804 to the 1633, 13D1 and the TS BGRP...
> 
> This little tube has more bass tha any of the others....
> 
> Eye........like it!!!!



I assume you have the RCA 1633? As in the case of the 6SN7GT, the Ken-Rad 1633 has a bit more bass... 

But again, the ECC804 is largely unknown and under appreciated. Glad you are liking it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yes, RCA 1633, which is a fine sounding tube on its own.  Believe ya when you say Ken Rad has more bass as thier VT-231's are wonderful. 

I am rather amazed at the ECC804, Ken....it's a jewel of a tube....so glad you alerted me to it


----------



## JazzVinyl

Spectacular!!!!

 

Mazda ECC804 6x 6BL7's.....

Thank you, Glenn!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Wow! Listening to sessions I know well..and brother lemme tell ya...it ain't never sounded this good!

It's fairly upsetting that some are soooooo talented!!

But oh Lordy...we are traveling the train together.   Me...Kenny and the gang...up in front is the engine...its steam powered, and who is that...with his engineer hat on and just pouring on the steam?

Why it's engineer Glenn...!!!

Hold on, y'all...!!!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Wow! Listening to sessions I know well..and brother lemme tell ya...it ain't never sounded this good!
> 
> It's fairly upsetting that some are soooooo talented!!
> 
> ...


Is this the one?


----------



## JazzVinyl

He is the man....just a monster sax player


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 3, 2018)

Listening to the HD800 this morning with the GEC U18/20 rectifier. This was recommended to me by gibosi and it is one of the best rectifiers I own.
It has no faults really. It is a 4 volt rectifier.

The listening room has made it very nice for me as I can enjoy my open cans much more without disturbing the wife while she is watching tv.




  
As you can see the U18/20 looks very much like the much more expensive GEC U52


I have also received my first two concert posters to hang in my room. I found a company that makes reproductions of concert posters in the Ohio and surrounding areas.
If they made the original concert poster, then they can make reproductions of those same posters.  The originals can get quite expensive, but these reproductions can be picked up for a very reasonable price.
They measure 11x17 or 12x18

This one is from 1976 and was one day before my birthday. I has just graduated from high school and my brother bought tickets to this for my girl friend and me.
He even splurged for the advanced tickets...looks like he spent a couple of dollars more  Poster says $5.50 for advanced tickets and $6.50 for the day of the show.


This one was purchased for me by my son as a birthday present on 2008...It was the first of about 10 shows that we have seen together...we try to see one every year or two.


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 3, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> Listening to the HD800 this morning with the GEC U18/20 rectifier. This was recommended to me by gibosi and it is one of the best rectifiers I own.
> It has no faults really. It is a 4 volt rectifier.
> 
> The listening room has made it very nice for me as I can enjoy my open cans much more without disturbing the wife while she is watching tv.
> ...



Great posters!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't know you were almost as old as me I graduated in 1975.


----------



## whirlwind

I turned 60 on June 29th. I sit here wondering where the hell the time went.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I turned 60 on June 29th. I sit here wondering where the hell the time went.




I know 61 on June 16 life is flying by now


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I know 61 on June 16 life is flying by now



It sure is flying by, if you figure out how to slow it down, please let me know!  

You know what though, I feel very fortunate and blessed. I have great family and friends that I have made through the years, both in real life and now online.
A wife that has been pretty great and understanding for the most part for 30 years.
I now find myself thinking about retirement and I look forward to it.

I am enjoying my music as much as I did when I was 20 years old, heck, maybe even more as I just love the intimacy of headphone listening.
It started out as a necessity and now I could not do without it. I credit your gear as a big part of that.
Life is good!


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I know 61 on June 16 life is flying by now



A couple of young whippersnappers... lol


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> A couple of young whippersnappers... lol


Yeah - the septuagenarian club!


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> A couple of young whippersnappers... lol




You sir, are all so kind


----------



## mordy

Going through my stash of 6BL7 tubes. Today is Tung Sol day. All the tubes say Tung Sol, but I am not really sure if they are. One has the three digit letter/number code on the cap below the tube designation which may indicate Sylvania, and one has the GE dots.
This batch sounds a little different than batch of GE 6BL7 tubes, but I need more time to articulate the differences.
The driver is a 12V (exotic?) RCA 12SX7GT. If you are interested they are available in Taiwan.
Next I am going to try the Sylvania 6BL7.
In addition, I have a US made tube labeled Regency from October, 1962. Don't know who made it, but the top mica has a distinct cutout pattern.
Well, had such a tube.



It looks like it died in it's sleep. The white getter flash indicates loss of vacuum. I think I fumbled and dropped it when I looked at it last.
You can say what you want about the look of Foton tubes, but if you drop them nuttin' happens..........
PS: Well, after listening a little while, I noticed that the tube glow was different in one of the tubes. Checked it out - this tube is a little schizophrenic:



The shrink said that the real personality is GE and not TS.
Found another TS tube for a more pure listening experience lol.....


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Yeah - the septuagenarian club!



I thought it was a geriatrics club.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hey Ken

We might mention the 6JD5 , 6HV5 , 6HS5 and see if any interest in a amp using these tubes.


----------



## gibosi (Sep 3, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Hey Ken
> 
> We might mention the 6JD5 , 6HV5 , 6HS5 and see if any interest in a amp using these tubes.



Well, I know only a little about the 6JD5, but if I understand correctly, this power beam triode can provide up to 35 watts, transformer-coupled, and virtually any small double triode, for example, a 6SN7 can drive it. So instead of using very expensive and rare pairs of 300B, 2A3 or 45, a pair of these are much cheaper, and likely will sound just as good, if not better.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Another evening, another revelation....this time it is:




And album I know well...heard stuff I never knew were in, them there ones and zeros'....

6x 6BL7's and Mazda ECC804....

Fantastic combo in this amp.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Well, I know only a little about the 6JD5, but if I understand correctly, this power beam triode can provide up to 35 watts, transformer-coupled, and virtually any small double triode, for example, a 6SN7 can drive it. So instead of using very expensive and rare pairs of 300B, 2A3 or 45, a pair of these are much cheaper, and likely will sound just as good, if not better.


Here is a long article about the 6JD5 tube, but it is too technical for me. However, it appears to me that this could be a good audio tube.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6jd5.html


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Here is a long article about the 6JD5 tube, but it is too technical for me. However, it appears to me that this could be a good audio tube.
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6jd5.html



If I get some time I will build a amp that uses these tubes for outputs.
I already have all the parts the Lundahl output transformers I use in the EL3N amp will be perfect only I will have to get the air gap set for a higher current.
These tubes are plentiful and cheep.


----------



## smodtactical

zach915m said:


> I bought these. =)  The guy actually took a VERY reasonable best offer price.  Just you know...prepping for my OTL!!!!
> 
> In the meantime:
> 
> ...



How does it compare to ampsandsound stuff like Pendant?


----------



## Monsterzero

smodtactical said:


> How does it compare to ampsandsound stuff like Pendant?



You might want to drop Zach a PM and ask him. I have found Zach to give unbiased opinions on gear,regardless of whether he sells them or not.


----------



## zach915m

smodtactical said:


> How does it compare to ampsandsound stuff like Pendant?



They're both great but very very different.  The Gel3n is more alike the Mogwai SE than Pendant - I have only directly compared those two as the Pendant is a bit different in design (they all are really).  When you're looking at the absolute best of the best tube amps there's no right answer.  The Gel3n and Mogwai SE are two of the top tube amps I've ever heard, it's going to come down to personal preference.

A big part of the answer also comes down to how much tube rolling you want to do.  

What is absolutely true is that Glenn and Justin (ampsandsound) are in their prime and we are witnessing master's at work!


----------



## smodtactical

zach915m said:


> They're both great but very very different.  The Gel3n is more alike the Mogwai SE than Pendant - I have only directly compared those two as the Pendant is a bit different in design (they all are really).  When you're looking at the absolute best of the best tube amps there's no right answer.  The Gel3n and Mogwai SE are two of the top tube amps I've ever heard, it's going to come down to personal preference.
> 
> A big part of the answer also comes down to how much tube rolling you want to do.
> 
> What is absolutely true is that Glenn and Justin (ampsandsound) are in their prime and we are witnessing master's at work!



How much does the Gel3N cost?


----------



## gibosi

A new (to me) rectifier arrived in today's mail:

Shown next to a GE 3DG4 for scale.


It was listed as a Klangfilm 76303, which is equivalent to a Telefunken RGN2504. That is, a full-wave rectifier, with a 4 volt / 2.5 amp heater, capable of providing 180ma. I have some doubt that it really is a Klangfilm, but it was so cool looking, with those shiny plates, and the price was right, so I couldn't resist lol. Judging from construction, I would guess this was manufactured in a factory located in Germany or Austria in the late 1930's.

Again, this rectifier is fine in the GOTL with four 6BL7 and of course, it is more than adequate in the GEL3N. However, it is not powerful enough to handle six 6BL7 or two 6AS7/6080/5998.

Hope to pop it in later today....


----------



## zach915m

smodtactical said:


> How much does the Gel3N cost?



I actually have no idea - probably worth sending @2359glenn a PM.  I got mine second hand.


----------



## 2359glenn

smodtactical said:


> How much does the Gel3N cost?



 The EL3N amp costs $2000 the 3 Lundahl transformers cost me $1000 by themselves.
The OTL starts at $700 and goes up to $1600 with upgrades.


----------



## zach915m

2359glenn said:


> the 3 Lundahl transformers cost me $1000 by themselves.



There is some serious copper in those transformers!!!! By far the largest/heaviest on any amp that I have.


----------



## 2359glenn

zach915m said:


> There is some serious copper in those transformers!!!! By far the largest/heaviest on any amp that I have.



The output transformers are a little overkill but they sound great.


----------



## mordy

Trudging down tube rolling lane. Assembling the next platoon of 6BL7 with military precision.
Today is Sylvania flat parallel plate day - the recruits were born between 1951 and 1953. Now have to check if there are any duds...
1) Amp off, speakers off, no headphones, driver in place. Insert two tubes. 
2) Turn on amp.
3) Wait a couple of minutes.
4) Plug in sacrificial headphones. (Koss Porta Pro with a lifetime warranty, just in case.)
5) Put on headphones and turn up the volume, listening for noise and any untoward pops etc.
6) Listening to music via headphones
7) Turn on speakers 
Surprised at the volume and sound with just a driver and two 6BL7 tubes. Sounds fine.
8) Repeat procedure with an additional two tubes.
9) Everything OK.
10) Repeat procedure with another two tubes.
Putting on the analytical hat and listening to the system. I think that Sylvania tubes in general have a wide sound stage; it is certainly evident here.
First impression: Very vivid and engaging presentation. Sounds better to me than the GE and Tung Sol 6BL7 combinations that I tried. The GE and TS sounded similar but with more bass extension from the TS.

Tried several drivers - so far the best one with the 6BL7 to my ears is the RCA 1633.
I also have Sylvania 6BL7 with X plates but I am reluctant to change anything now since it sounds so nice.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Trudging down tube rolling lane. Assembling the next platoon of 6BL7 with military precision.
> Today is Sylvania flat parallel plate day - the recruits were born between 1951 and 1953. Now have to check if there are any duds...
> 1) Amp off, speakers off, no headphones, driver in place. Insert two tubes.
> 2) Turn on amp.
> ...



The Sylvania flat plate are the best sounding of the 6BL7s
I use one for the output cathode follower in my #26 tube preamp the only 6BL7 I will use.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> The Sylvania flat plate are the best sounding of the 6BL7s
> I use one for the output cathode follower in my #26 tube preamp the only 6BL7 I will use.


Thanks - good to hear. And you saved me from rolling the X-plate Syl 6BL7 lol.....
A few years ago I was rolling these tubes in the Little Dot MKIII amp. At that time you could buy small lots of tubes very cheap, and I altogether bought some 25 or more of 6BL7/6BX7 tubes.
Today things have changed, and it seems that many more tubes are sold individually and small inexpensive lots are not so common.
Another 6BL7 tube that I liked is a Raytheon labeled tube made in Japan (Hitachi?) , but I only have one.


----------



## m17xr2b

gibosi said:


> In addition to the Russian 1578 and 1579, another tube in the 1500 series, the 1539, is also suitable for use in audio circuits. I haven't been able to find out much about this tube, other than it is said to be similar to the 6N1P and 6N5P. While these do not have Western counterparts, the 6N1P and 6N5P are often suggested as a replacement for a 6DJ8 / ECC88, albeit with a 600ma heater, almost twice that of the 6DJ8. and thus they cannot be considered direct plug-in replacements in all circuits. The 6N1P has an amplification factor of 35, the 6N5P, 27 and the 6DJ8, 33, and I assume that the 1539 is also in this range.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you still have the 1539? Does the shield between the triodes look coarse? Curious if this sets it apart from both 6N1P-E and 6N5P, on all of mine it's shiny.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rarity-spe...vip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137


----------



## mordy

Since my Sylvania 6BL7 flat plate tubes reached an elevated status in the GOTL, I looked to see if I have any more in addition to the 6-pack.
Found one more - a rebranded Micro and dated April, 1962.




On the top of the tube it says 6BL7GT and a date code L0E which I think is Sylvania speak for November, 1950.
Would you be afraid to use it?
Well, it says Garanteed.....


----------



## 2359glenn

I would try it it should be OK
All flat plate 6BL7s are Sylvania


----------



## gibosi

m17xr2b said:


> Do you still have the 1539? Does the shield between the triodes look coarse? Curious if this sets it apart from both 6N1P-E and 6N5P, on all of mine it's shiny.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rarity-spe...vip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137



I don't see any significant difference in the appearance of the shields among the 6N5P, 6N1P-E and 1539 in my possession. However, after further examination, I did notice some construction differences.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1285#post-14157018

In summary, there is quite a bit more copper wire used below the lower mica of the 1539 than in the 6N5P, which suggests a more premium tube. And most distinctive and unique, there are what appear to be four glass seams on top of the 1539, somewhat similar to those found in Philips production. They are not identical to those found on Philips tubes, so it seems doubtful that they were manufactured using Philips equipment that might have somehow made it's way to NEVZ. However, I have never seen similar seams on any of the other commonly found Russian double triodes.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> A new (to me) rectifier arrived in today's mail:
> 
> Shown next to a GE 3DG4 for scale.
> 
> ...



Have you tried the 76303? How does it sound ?


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Have you tried the 76303? How does it sound ?



It's been in the amp for less ten minutes, but so far, it sounds great. 

However, the more I look at it, the more I am convinced that it isn't a Klangfilm. I see "2.5" written on the glass pinch which suggests to me that it is indeed equivalent to the Klangfilm 76303 and Telefunken RGN2504, that is 2.5 amps, 4 volts. And it does have a sound signature typical of German manufacture, with a somewhat pronounced mid-range and treble, but I have no idea which company. Again, I have over 30 of these 4 volt rectifiers, and it doesn't look like anything else in my collection. The construction of the pins, especially, is unique in my experience. Another mystery...  

With four Fivre 6BX7GT and a British Mazda ECC804.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Just picked up a tube that I did not know existed - the 6S78:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i had a Sheldon HIPO 567 rectifier but never tried it was a dud


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> It's been in the amp for less ten minutes, but so far, it sounds great.
> 
> However, the more I look at it, the more I am convinced that it isn't a Klangfilm. I see "2.5" written on the glass pinch which suggests to me that it is indeed equivalent to the Klangfilm 76303 and Telefunken RGN2504, that is 2.5 amps, 4 volts. And it does have a sound signature typical of German manufacture, with a somewhat pronounced mid-range and treble, but I have no idea which company. Again, I have over 30 of these 4 volt rectifiers, and it doesn't look like anything else in my collection. The construction of the pins, especially, is unique in my experience. Another mystery...
> 
> With four Fivre 6BX7GT and a British Mazda ECC804.



Beautiful tube, for sure, gibosi....

Got that Mazda ECC804 in there...hopefully that makes up for any lack of bass from the rectifier...


----------



## MIKELAP

gibosi said:


> I admit that I allowed myself to be influenced by DubstepGirl's review, maybe overly so, and when faced with the choice between the 596 and the 1641, I went with the 596, for sure, a very good rectifier.


I have a few RK60'S using one of Glenns very nicely made adapter


----------



## mordy

MIKELAP said:


> I have a few RK60'S using one of Glenns very nicely made adapter


Hi Mikelap,
Good to hear from you! I think that you have some kind of Canadian made tube amp....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mazda ECC804 as driver plus Mullard 6080's / one 6BL7 flat plate, per side  as powers...

HD650's and the incredible band:


 


Thank you, Glenn!!


----------



## whirlwind

zach915m said:


> There is some serious copper in those transformers!!!! By far the largest/heaviest on any amp that I have.



Yes, these transformers are the real deal, for sure.
I have a pretty small mail lady, I would guess she does not weigh over 110 pounds.
When she came to delivery my amp she knocked on my door and asked if I would not mind taking it out of the truck myself as it was a lot for her to carry.
Not a wimpy amp for sure.  Even more robust now that Glenn is using the bigger chassis.

The Auteur must sound wonderful with this, enjoy Zach.
I need to start throwing my change in a jar and call it my Auteur savings jar.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Yes, these transformers are the real deal, for sure.
> I have a pretty small mail lady, I would guess she does not weigh over 110 pounds.
> When she came to delivery my amp she knocked on my door and asked if I would not mind taking it out of the truck myself as it was a lot for her to carry.
> Not a wimpy amp for sure.  Even more robust now that Glenn is using the bigger chassis.
> ...



Get the Auteur you won't be disappointed they sound great.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Get the Auteur you won't be disappointed they sound great.



I heard it with the OTL amp, it was a small sample size...but I thought at the time that it could replace my HD800, and I like the HD800.
I have not heard it on the EL3N amp.
Which amp do you prefer it with Glenn ?


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi Mikelap,
> Good to hear from you! I think that you have some kind of Canadian made tube amp....


Actually using the RK  tubes with the WA22 the Canadian made SET speaker amp uses a pair 6C33C


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I heard it with the OTL amp, it was a small sample size...but I thought at the time that it could replace my HD800, and I like the HD800.
> I have not heard it on the EL3N amp.
> Which amp do you prefer it with Glenn ?



That is a good question.
The EL3N sounds great with the Auteur it's power and authority takes control of the headphone.
But I have just tried the OTL with six 6BX7s driven by C3g's the sound was so good it is hard to explain.
If you have both of these amps with the Auteur you have every type of music covered.
These phones are so good I haven't been listening to my HD-800s at all and they were my favorite phones.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

UntilThen said:


> Yesterday Juri of Germany contacted me. Said he read 170 pages of the Euforia thread, much of it from me - his words. Also said he followed my audio journey here. He wanted a headphone amp to drive his LCD-3 optimally. Showed me a picture of his main stereo system with Lampizator Golden Gate dac, Air Tight ATE 2001 Pre, etc. Quality stuff.
> 
> I said the Glenn OTL amp will drive the LCD-3 optimally. It drove my LCD-2f optimally. Then he ask me which Glenn OTL model. I said to tell Glenn this.
> 
> ...


  he's got a fellow Pittsburgher sitting next to him! Where was this shot you know?


----------



## mordy

MIKELAP said:


> Actually using the RK  tubes with the WA22 the Canadian made SET speaker amp uses a pair 6C33C





JazzVinyl said:


> Mazda ECC804 as driver plus Mullard 6080's / one 6BL7 flat plate, per side  as powers...
> 
> HD650's and the incredible band:
> 
> ...


Hi JV,
The closest I can come to your setup is this:




Driver is a 1974 Voskhod 6N23P (don't have a Mazda ECC804 yet but should be close), a pair of Mullard 6080 and a pair of Sylvania 6BL7 flat plates.
It does indeed sound great! 
At first I tried with 11.3A of fire power (Voskhod, Mullard and 4 6BL7) but it did not sound good, which shows that too much of something may be too much....
With two 6BL7 the sound is punchy, quick, lively and engaging with very good detail, especially in the treble. The sound of a 1633 with 6x6BL7 has a sweeter mid range and is more laid back, but both combinations are tops.
So many choices.....


----------



## Phantaminum

.


mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> The closest I can come to your setup is this:
> 
> Driver is a 1974 Voskhod 6N23P (don't have a Mazda ECC804 yet but should be close), a pair of Mullard 6080 and a pair of Sylvania 6BL7 flat plates.
> ...



Nice combination! I was thinking of combining two Chathams 6as7gs and two GE BX7s and see what sound came from them. 

I feel like Dr.Frakenstein when I mix and match tubes like these. 

How’s the Voshkod 6n23p?


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 5, 2018)

You guys are crazy you know I have never tried this.
Will have to.   To see how it sounds nothing can be harmed so why not.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> .
> 
> 
> Nice combination! I was thinking of combining two Chathams 6as7gs and two GE BX7s and see what sound came from them.
> ...


Hi P,
There is only one way to find out how something sounds, and that is to try it lol.
As long as the total current draw does not exceed the capacity of the amp (in my case 13A) it should be OK. (Of course, the tubes have to compatible with the amp)
The 6N23P belongs in the 6DJ8 family. It has a good reputation for strong bass.
The reason I am using it instead of the ECC804 (which I don't have) is that one seller advertises an ECC804 that we think is a Russian made 6N23P; this tube does not look like it's European made namesakes:




https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC804-Int...BEAAOSwz~pZ-MHX:sc:USPSFirstClass!10952!US!-1




Note the four giant tubes on the right from the 1931 Frankenstein movie.


----------



## mordy (Sep 5, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> You guys are crazy you know I have never tried this.
> Will have to.   To see how it sounds nothing can be harmed so why not.


Waiting with bated breath to hear your reaction......
On further listening, this combination has something new to me. Sometimes you hear tubes that have real slam and attack in the bass; well this combo has it in the bass, but also the same in the mid range and the treble, if there is such a thing.... 
After listening to this I think that it is possible.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> The closest I can come to your setup is this:
> 
> Driver is a 1974 Voskhod 6N23P (don't have a Mazda ECC804 yet but should be close), a pair of Mullard 6080 and a pair of Sylvania 6BL7 flat plates.
> ...




Yes, very nice Mordy!! Love your picture 

And am loving this combo in my amp too.  Just Right, on many levels!! Not sure how close your V 6N23P is to the ECC804, but construction sure looks similar...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mordy...

I do see that the ECC804 has a shield between the two triode sections.  Don't know if the V  6N23P also has a screen, or not?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> That is a good question.
> The EL3N sounds great with the Auteur it's power and authority takes control of the headphone.
> But I have just tried the OTL with six 6BX7s driven by C3g's the sound was so good it is hard to explain.
> If you have both of these amps with the Auteur you have every type of music covered.
> These phones are so good I haven't been listening to my HD-800s at all and they were my favorite phones.



Thanks for the response Glenn....looks like I will have the best of both worlds once I get the new OTL amp.
I agree with you about the Auteur....even though my listening to it did not amount to much time, I really liked it...I thought the bass easily trumped that of the HD800


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Mordy...
> 
> I do see that the ECC804 has a shield between the two triode sections.  Don't know if the V  6N23P also has a screen, or not?


There is some kind of metal divider between the two triode sections.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Thanks for the response Glenn....looks like I will have the best of both worlds once I get the new OTL amp.
> I agree with you about the Auteur....even though my listening to it did not amount to much time, I really liked it...I thought the bass easily trumped that of the HD800



The bass kills the base in the 800s and I am a bass head this is why the 800s are put aside.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> The bass kills the base in the 800s and I am a bass head this is why the 800s are put aside.



Right on to "bass head" !

Me too....

And why I stayed HD650 instead of going HD800...I can dream about the Auteur's...


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> There is some kind of metal divider between the two triode sections.



If that is the case...I think they are the same tube!


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> If that is the case...I think they are the same tube!



Not really. The Russian 6N23P is electrically equivalent to the E88CC or 6922. One significant difference is the amplification factor, 33 for the 6N23P/E88CC and 18 for the ECC804. And for comparison purposes, the 6SN7GT has an amplification factor of 20.

A typical double triode needs only 8 of the 9 pins available on a miniature all-glass 9-pin bottle. So you commonly see the 9th pin connected to a shield, as in the 6N23P and ECC804, or connected to the heater circuit, as in a 12AU7, allowing its use in either 6 or 12 volt devices.

Again, that listing of a 6N23P labeled as an ECC804 on eBay was just another example of mislabeling, which was and still is common, unfortunately. As always, Buyer Beware....


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Right on to "bass head" !
> 
> Me too....
> 
> And why I stayed HD650 instead of going HD800...I can dream about the Auteur's...



JV,

Bass head checking in. Give the quad Chatham 6as7gs + Semeins c3g a spin. I was highly impressed with the bass it was out putting and the amount of detail coming through. Felt like they removed the headphones from my head.


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 5, 2018)

I just got four tung-sol 7236 in the mail see how these sound as outputs in the OTL
Has anyone tried these as outputs?


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> I just got four tung-sol 7236 in the mail see how these sound as outputs in the OTL
> Has anyone tried these as outputs?


In my other amps the 7236 always sounded ss like, but things could be different in the GOTL. Which driver are you using? (Happen to have several 7236 tubes).


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> I just got four tung-sol 7236 in the mail see how these sound as outputs in the OTL



Can’t wait to hear your thoughts. Sounds like a good time Glenn!

By the way, after reading through this thread it seems that pictures of food are scarce now. I’ll be posting some soon from the Dominican Republic to remedy that.

Here’s a picture of Bahamas as we were flying over it:


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> Can’t wait to hear your thoughts. Sounds like a good time Glenn!
> 
> By the way, after reading through this thread it seems that pictures of food are scarce now. I’ll be posting some soon from the Dominican Republic to remedy that.
> 
> Here’s a picture of Bahamas as w



The band "Food" posted recently, right here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1482#post-14465281


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 5, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> JV,
> 
> Bass head checking in. Give the quad Chatham 6as7gs + Semeins c3g a spin. I was highly impressed with the bass it was out putting and the amount of detail coming through. Felt like they removed the headphones from my head.



Thanks,   Will give it a whirl, later this evening


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Right on to "bass head" !
> 
> Me too....
> 
> And why I stayed HD650 instead of going HD800...I can dream about the Auteur's...


The major reason we sold the Auteur's was my wife and I preferred the bass with the LCD-3. It might be that we are simply "more used" to the bass with the Audeze headphones though.



2359glenn said:


> I just got four tung-sol 7236 in the mail see how these sound as outputs in the OTL
> Has anyone tried these as outputs?


I have six. Waiting


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> The major reason we sold the Auteur's was my wife and I preferred the bass with the LCD-3. It might be that we are simply "more used" to the bass with the Audeze headphones though.
> 
> 
> I have six. Waiting


Tried the GOTL with 4x7236 tubes. These were made by Tung Sol for IBM  - "computer grade" tubes, as indicated by the numbers on the base with numeral 3 and a lot of 9s  (IBM part numbers) in addition to IBM stickers.
Tried with a couple of drivers. First Tung Sol 6F8G, then Sylvania 12AU7. Doesn't sound right with a flabby and boomy bass.
Let's call in the Mighty Mini Russian 6N23P. It proves itself again - the sound tightens up and it has a quick and alert quality to it.
It sounds very good, but these tubes are probably new and I need more time to get to know this combination.



Each IBM sticker has a serial number on it and the following message:



So far I did not have to return any tube for failure analysis lol. Times has changed - nobody would use the name "Failure Analysis Group" today. It would be called "Quality Improvement Team" or something similar.
Try to look up Junk Yard in the phone book. Can't find it - you have to look under Automotive Recycler or Auto Salvage.
The sound is changing - it is more laid back and mellow now; quite nice.
Question for Glenn: If I added in two 6BX7 tubes, could the amp handle 13.3A?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hi, could someone please post Glenn’s website, I'd love to learn more about his amps.


----------



## rnros (Sep 6, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Hi, could someone please post Glenn’s website, I'd love to learn more about his amps.



No website, just drop @2359glenn a PM for models, options and prices.
His three typical amps would include an OTL, an EL3N transformer coupled, and a 300B.
For more detailed info and pics, search this thread for each of those.

_Edit: If you do search the thread, the OTL and EL3N are also referred to as GOTL and GEL3N.
Those might get you more hits._


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Can’t wait to hear your thoughts. Sounds like a good time Glenn!
> 
> By the way, after reading through this thread it seems that pictures of food are scarce now. I’ll be posting some soon from the Dominican Republic to remedy that.
> 
> Here’s a picture of Bahamas as we were flying over it:



That is what we need here more food pictures!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The bass kills the base in the 800s and I am a bass head this is why the 800s are put aside.



The bass slam on all of the ZMF headphones that I own or that I have heard is killer when paired with your amps....it is why I like the ZMF cans also.


----------



## smodtactical

For those of you with a Glenn amp, how do you compare them to other tube amps you've tried, especially TOTL amps like EC ZDS, aficionado, DNA stratus, bottlehead mainline, WA5, WA22. Tried to search for comparative reviews but couldn't find any.


----------



## leftside

300B compared to WA22 and WA5 (which I consider very fine amps) is more detail and a magical airiness that I haven't heard in any other amp. More neutral and revealing. The revealing is a great aspect for good recordings. Not so good for poor recordings - and I'm ok with that. I also found both the WA22 and Glenn 300B don't tolerate poor tubes - and so they shouldn't. I've thrown out a few tubes since owning these amps.

The 300B is the only headphone amp I've come across that drives my LCD-4's sufficiently well. I honestly believe this pairing will never be replaced by anything else.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Tried the GOTL with 4x7236 tubes. These were made by Tung Sol for IBM  - "computer grade" tubes, as indicated by the numbers on the base with numeral 3 and a lot of 9s  (IBM part numbers) in addition to IBM stickers.
> Tried with a couple of drivers. First Tung Sol 6F8G, then Sylvania 12AU7. Doesn't sound right with a flabby and boomy bass.
> Let's call in the Mighty Mini Russian 6N23P. It proves itself again - the sound tightens up and it has a quick and alert quality to it.
> It sounds very good, but these tubes are probably new and I need more time to get to know this combination.
> ...



13.3 A is really not that much over to cause  a problem I wouldn't worry it is a 250watt transformer.
You have the LL1651 They say you can go a little over.

Mains Transformers for Tube Amplifiers
LL1648, LL1649, LL1650, LL1651
C core mains transformers. The core is assembled with a small air
gap to compensate for any mains DC
unbalance. Estimated power rating 250 VA which can be increased with good cooling.
Magnetic stray is
extremely small if secondaries of the two coils are loaded identically.


----------



## UntilThen

MTMECraig said:


> he's got a fellow Pittsburgher sitting next to him! Where was this shot you know?



No idea. It’s a YouTube clip.


----------



## UntilThen

smodtactical said:


> For those of you with a Glenn amp, how do you compare them to other tube amps you've tried, especially TOTL amps like EC ZDS, aficionado, DNA stratus, bottlehead mainline, WA5, WA22. Tried to search for comparative reviews but couldn't find any.



I have a short comparison / impressions of my Glenn Super 9 OTL amp against the WA5 Le... in this thread somewhere. 

Would love to hear a EC ZDS sometime. This is an amp I am curious about.

Heard the WA22 at the shop briefly before I got hold of the GOTL. Can’t remember to post much impressions.

I have a DNA Stratus on order to arrive next year. This is the one I would like to test against the GOTL. Remember Glenn’s OTL is much cheaper in price to the Stratus but the GOTL is right up there in entertainment value against the WA5 Le. In my opinion as usual.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I just got four tung-sol 7236 in the mail see how these sound as outputs in the OTL
> Has anyone tried these as outputs?



I have tried T.S. 12sn7gt with 2 x 7236 and 2 x 5998.

A premier tone !


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I have six. Waiting



Heh. Give it a whirl. Should be a hurricane force.


----------



## UntilThen

Bass head should be right at home with GOTL. It’s not a boomy bass. The OTL bass is dynamic and punchy. That’s how I like it. Tubes can vary the tone.


----------



## UntilThen

In my early days of head-fi, I've always wanted to sample as many amps as possible, tube amps in particular. I've been through quite a few now. The urge to experiment more now is diminishing basically because I'm at a stage where what I'm hearing is kind of right to my ears. It doesn't grow old. Everything I look for in a setup is there. It's vivid, clear, extended and the listening sessions just draws me in. This contentment is a good place to be.

That goes for tube rolling too. I'll occasionally still change my tubes but I'm totally happy with Mullard ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7gt which is my what I'm using for a while now.

Yggdrasil > GOTL > HD800. Listening to Norah Jones and the splendid musicians.


----------



## mordy

Yes, there comes a time when you find what you want and you are content to leave things where they are. At least that's how I felt with my old amp.
Enter GOTL - it is different ballgame. Tried different things, and at least I know now where NOT to go, more or less lol.
Tried 13.3A of fire power after Glenn OK'd it: Driver 0.3A 6N23P, 2x1.5A 6BL7 and 4x2.5A 7236.




The 7236 tubes run hot, around 240F. This is the first time I felt that the amp got fairly warm (but not hot). Maybe those silicone mittens for barbecuing are a good idea for changing the tubes....
So I am running the amp flat out, and it just doesn't sound right. It is as if the 7236 tubes are overpowering the other players, and they are not allowed to make themselves heard fully. The lightness,attack, speed and vividness are compromised. There is a little more bottom punch, but the musicality is suffering.
Don't know if I can express my self clearly. Think elephants dancing - powerful maybe, but clumsy and not elegant.
Pulled out one pair of the 7236 tubes. Now we are talking - similar in sound to the same combination using a pair of Mullard 6080. 
This is special, magical. From memory the Mullards have an edge with a more lively presentation, but this is close.
Will gather more impressions.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Yes, there comes a time when you find what you want and you are content to leave things where they are. At least that's how I felt with my old amp.
> Enter GOTL - it is different ballgame. Tried different things, and at least I know now where NOT to go, more or less lol.
> Tried 13.3A of fire power after Glenn OK'd it: Driver 0.3A 6N23P, 2x1.5A 6BL7 and 4x2.5A 7236.
> 
> ...



Nice post, Mordy, I followed your sound description perfectly.  That 6N23P is indeed a dandy driver in this amp.  
I also find that 4x of the 6AS7G can get a bit 'swampy' with some drivers....


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 6, 2018)

Tonight it is 2x Mullard 6080's plus 2x of my special 'red base' 6BX7's for powers and the famous Sylvania 6SN7W...as driver. 

After almost a week with the ECC804, wanted to see how the old standard driver fared.

It fares very well, indeed.  It is special in its ability to spread out the soundstage and let tiny minor details surrounding each instrument be brought to the top of the well head

Tonight's musical selection is (astonishingly) from 32 years ago, when digital recording was young.  The year was 1986.  A quirky group of studio musicians banded together to embrace the new digital recording technology.  They called themselves "Flim and the BB's"... Now if you can come up with a worse name than that for a group of very talented studio musicians...please do share!

Credits say DDD (all digital recording...no analogue tape was used) and the location for the recording event was "Billy's garage"!

These guys set the bar for recording technique / soundquality and is still hailed today as a SQ level of excellence,  to strive for.

Lots of bass thanks to the power compliment and the 6SN7W makes magic of the soundstage depth, width, and clarity.

Thank you, Glenn!!!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Tonight it is 2x Mullard 6080's plus 2x of my special 'red base' 6BX7's for powers and the famous Sylvania 6SN7W...as driver.
> 
> After almost a week with the ECC804, wanted to see how the old standard driver fared.
> 
> ...





JazzVinyl said:


> Tonight it is 2x Mullard 6080's plus 2x of my special 'red base' 6BX7's for powers and the famous Sylvania 6SN7W...as driver.
> 
> After almost a week with the ECC804, wanted to see how the old standard driver fared.
> 
> ...


Found the album on YouTube - the sound quality is excellent!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 6, 2018)

mordy said:


> Found the album on YouTube - the sound quality is excellent!



Yes, back in the day, they made a big splash.  When CD was new, it was mostly old recordings, sloppily slapped onto CD and rushed to market.  Much of it didn't sound too dandy!

These guys, and the all digital, no analog tape, showed what was capable from the new format.

I remember being none too happy that an LP new, back then, cost 5 bucks and for years and years, CD's were $19.95...which I could not afford many of...at the time.

I continued to buy LP's and had fun buying LP lots from folks dumping the LP format, for the "promise" of the "light of the laser".....

Cannot tell you how many people who have expressed to me, regret, in dumping all thier LP's.


----------



## mordy

Rolling "auxiliary" power tubes with 6N23P and a pair of 6BL7 Syl FP.
Mullard 6080: Excellent with special energy across FR.
Tung Sol 7236: Very good with special emphasis on bass.
GEC 6080: Too polite and proper.
Bendix 6080: Very good bass and lots of detail, but too bright.The Bendix tubes haven't gotten too much publicity on this forum. They have graphite plates and are very heavy - feels like little hand grenades. Take a long time to warm up.

Maybe time for some 6AS7 tubes?

Observation: Those tubes that respond with a wide range when adjusting the tone controls on my ss preamp (for speaker listening) usually sound better. And tubes where changing the bass/treble controls don't have much impact usually don't sound as good.

Question for Glenn: Does it make any difference where the power tubes are placed in the six sockets if you are only using two or four of them? Is it better to put them in the back? Front? Space them out?
The only thing I know is that there is some kind of relationship between tubes (and drivers) re positioning because some people report that a problem with hum was resolved by changing the positions of tubes.
And sometimes normally quiet tubes start to hum in combination with other normally quiet tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

It does not matter the socket they are all in parallel of course left and right sides have to be the same.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I have a DNA Stratus on order to arrive next year. This is the one I would like to test against the GOTL. Remember Glenn’s OTL is much cheaper in price to the Stratus but the GOTL is right up there in entertainment value against the WA5 Le. In my opinion as usual.



Hi UT, I'll look forward to your comparison notes on the Stratus and GOTL. Congrats on your purchase.
Although, would also be interesting to hear comparison comments on the Stratus and GEL3N since they are both OTCs.
Are you still planning to get some version of the GEL3N?
Now why do I think you will also be posting some of the first rolling notes of 6SN7s in the Stratus in lieu of the 6N1P?


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Hi UT, I'll look forward to your comparison notes on the Stratus and GOTL. Congrats on your purchase.
> Although, would also be interesting to hear comparison comments on the Stratus and GEL3N since they are both OTCs.
> Are you still planning to get some version of the GEL3N?
> Now why do I think you will also be posting some of the first rolling notes of 6SN7s in the Stratus in lieu of the 6N1P?



Thank you rnros. I too look forward to your comparison of the GOTL vs GEL3N. 

In deciding on my next tube amp, I have to make a choice. It will be my last purchase and it's not famous last words. I know it. 

I have been blessed in meeting Glenn and the many interactions we had. He's been a delight to deal with and a real gentleman. More blessed in that I now own the Glenn OTL amp, which I think highly of. I wanted to sample amps made by some of the best designers of tube amps known in Head-fi. Craig, Donald and Glenn comes to mind. I thought of DNA Stratus and EC ZDS. Well I have the GOTL already. So the choice of the next amp is the Stratus. I have not heard it. Neither have I heard the GOTL when I order it and it turn out to be an end -game capable tube amp.

Part of the reason for going with the Stratus is the 2A3 tubes. This article has my interest. It is well written. 
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/1108/

In it, the author stated that his gold standard is still the 2A3 but that the evaluation sessions showed him that the EL3N is very close. I may never get to hear the GEL3N but we could both be hearing a sound signature that is in some ways similar. Speculations of course.  

No 6SN7s in the Stratus. It's the cheap 6N1P drivers instead. I have a Philip Miniwatt 6BQ7A and a pair of Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV already.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 8, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Thank you rnros. I too look forward to your comparison of the GOTL vs GEL3N.
> 
> In deciding on my next tube amp, I have to make a choice. It will be my last purchase and it's not famous last words. I know it.
> 
> ...



Congrats on the DNA Stratus UT.  I have never heard one but from all I have read it is a very good amp indeed.
I am listening to the HD800 right now with the EL3N amp in two tube mode....impact and dynamics are killer!

Listening to this 7 cd set....some great stuff!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Congrats on the DNA Stratus UT. I have never heard one but from all I have read it is a very good amp indeed.
> I am listening to the HD800 right now with the EL3N amp in two tube mode....impact and dynamics are killer!
> 
> Listening to this 7 cd set....some great stuff!



Thank you thank you Joe. For us addicts, we thrive on rich harmonic sound and quality music. I have no doubt what you are hearing is killer indeed.

I never thought of another headphone in my life today. Never dream of it but fate would rule otherwise. One look at the Aussie classifieds and I saw this spanking new Beyer T90 for sale at $290 .... that's in aussie dollars not american.

The rest is history or my audio history. I bought it and it's now on my head and I'm doing a comparison with the HD800.

Beyer T90 use the same Tesla technology employed in their flagship T1. These are very strong neodymium magnets. Strong enough to take you to Mars and back. I am still familiar with the T1 tone having own it for one and a half year.

First impressions of this T90 is that .... get out of here ! At $290, it can't sound this good. More impressions to follow. For now, I have both HD800 and T90 plug into GOTL and I'm going through all my favourite songs like precision clock work.

Look at the hard case it came in. Do they even make these T90 anymore?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Nice find on the Beyers, UT...

All I see these days in our local classifieds are wireless Sennheisers.  Lots of them.

Also see many dozens of turntables.   10 years ago, zero turntables.  I arribute this to the advances in DAC's in the last few years.  Digi is sounding more and more natural, so it's goodbye to turntables


----------



## leftside

Or it could be because more turntables have been purchased the past 10 years, so more come up for sale 

"In 2017, 14 million LPs were sold in the United States, up more than 1,000 percent from 10 years earlier"
https://www.statista.com/chart/7699/lp-sales-in-the-united-states/


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 8, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> Congrats on the DNA Stratus UT.  I have never heard one but from all I have read it is a very good amp indeed.
> I am listening to the HD800 right now with the EL3N amp in two tube mode....impact and dynamics are killer!
> 
> Listening to this 7 cd set....some great stuff!



Very nice, Joe....

Did you know that Duane Allman played guitar on an iconic Jazz album from 1971 when he was just 26 years old? 

The album was "Push Push" by the Jazz flautist: Herbie Mann.

It was a monster hit for Mann:




Cheers


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Or it could be because more turntables have been purchased the past 10 years, so more come up for sale
> 
> "In 2017, 14 million LPs were sold in the United States, up more than 1,000 percent from 10 years earlier"
> https://www.statista.com/chart/7699/lp-sales-in-the-united-states/



And yet, still an incredibly tiny fraction of overall music sales.

I really think it is because the hipster generation is done with them.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 8, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Very nice, Joe....
> 
> Did you know that Duane Allman played guitar on an iconic Jazz album from 1971 when he was just 26 years old?
> 
> ...



Yes, the song "Push Push" is actually on one of the cd's in the set, along with "Spirit in the Dark" and  "What'd I Say"

Duane was one of the best guitarist ever.
He died in 1971 right before his 25th birthday.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Thank you rnros. I too look forward to your comparison of the GOTL vs GEL3N.
> 
> In deciding on my next tube amp, I have to make a choice. It will be my last purchase and it's not famous last words. I know it.
> 
> ...



That makes perfect sense, the decision to explore the 2A3 as your next step. And DNA Stratus is a great choice.
Not that I've heard the Stratus, I haven't, but I'm aware of the rep and the general build aspects.

So I will definitely enjoy your comparison notes, especially since we have GOTL experience in common. A bit of vicarious audio adventure for all of us.
Yes, I will definitely post comparative notes for the GOTL vs GEL3N. Although I admit to being already biased in thinking that, side by side, it will be less of a competition and more of a display of their own unique characteristics. I continue to be impressed, and in a serious relationship, with the GOTL. : )

Thanks for the article link, read that one before but read it again since it's been awhile. And, LOL, it increased my excitement level for the GEL3N again.

Joking (just a little) about the 6SN7s, I know Stratus is designed for the 6N1P as the driver. 
Not familiar with the two other 9 pin tubes you mention, but there are many SQ variations within the 6N1P group, in addition to all the other 9 pin options available. 
But I am sure you will have enough on your hands with the 2A3 options, not to mention rectifiers. Best of luck with the new amp adventure.


----------



## UntilThen

A tale of 2 headphones. A $1000 apart but it didn't seem that way in the enjoyment stakes. I like it when a gear is cheap yet sounds good. The T90 can be my daily driver. Fancy discovering it after it has faded from the horizon. There's even a dedicated thread for it and many fans.

I needn't give my thoughts on these 2 headphones because I think atomicbob captures it well here. Except when you listen to them on the GOTL, there's a special magic. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bey...nd-support-thread.607079/page-70#post-9872653


----------



## Phantaminum

Here you go guys:


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Here you go guys:



Looks good
My last job I traveled all over the world nothing better then trying different food.
But all the traveling got to be old and had to go to places I didn't want to be so I moved on.


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> Looks good
> My last job I traveled all over the world nothing better then trying different food.
> But all the traveling got to be old and had to go to places I didn't want to be so I moved on.



Spot on with trying food in different locations. This is in Puerto Plata Dominican Republic. Good food and friends.


----------



## UntilThen

Stop press. Osaka wins the US Open and the T90 gets to sit on the Omega.


----------



## attmci

Guys, after you received the Glenns, where is/are your *FELIKS?? Just curious.*


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 11, 2018)

My latest acquisition:



Tord Gustavsen Trio - "Being There"
Traditional jazz trio: Piano Drums, Acoustic Bass

The piano is a universe all to itself.  Miked in such a way that it expands across the entirety of the sound stage, as if you are inside the piano...hovering just over the harp.

The drummer is one of those guys who can get 6000 different sounds out of just the snare drum....

And bass as solid and dependable as the eastern rising sun...keeps everyone grounded in faithful purpose.

Tubes tonight are 1x Flat Plate 6BL7 and 1x 6N13S per side, for powers (for an unknown reason my amp gets quite hot under the deck when I run my Mullard 6080's all other power tubes run much much cooler) and the TS 12SN7 BGRP as driver. 

If I never rolled another tube, I could live happily,  with this compliment....


----------



## 2359glenn

Well it looks like us in North Carolina are going to get a direct hit from hurricane Florence going to make a mess.
The power company is already saying be prepared for the power to be out for two weeks.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Be safe Glenn and dry . I sent you a Pm recently.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Well it looks like us in North Carolina are going to get a direct hit from hurricane Florence going to make a mess.
> The power company is already saying be prepared for the power to be out for two weeks.



TWO WEEKS w/o electricity!!!  Hope there are stores that still have emergency supplies.  My sister lives 30 miles inland from Wilmington, sent photos yesterday of bare shelves!

Hunker down Glenn...we will be thinking of you.


----------



## Phantaminum

Stay safe Glenn! Let us know how it goes after in case we need to pitch in to help you out. 

I’m really praying it doesn’t cause too much destruction.


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> Well it looks like us in North Carolina are going to get a direct hit from hurricane Florence going to make a mess.
> The power company is already saying be prepared for the power to be out for two weeks.



Stay safe Glenn!


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Well it looks like us in North Carolina are going to get a direct hit from hurricane Florence going to make a mess.
> The power company is already saying be prepared for the power to be out for two weeks.



I was seeing that on the news last night and I immediately thought about you.  Hopefully that storm weakens before it hits, right now they don't know what it will do.


----------



## 2359glenn

It's gone crazy here can't even buy gas for your car most stations are out I managed to get hi-test. Arguments are breaking out over who was in line first.
There is no bottled water in the stores were sold out yesterday.
You think it is Armageddon the world is coming to a end. Guess for the people that live on the coast it is there will be nothing left of there homes.
This is the strongest storm to hit NC since 1954.


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 11, 2018)

Glenn,

Dont be a Hurricane Cowboy and try to ride it out. Get your valuables to as high a spot as you can and get the hell outta Dodge.
After living in the Caribbean for nearly five years,I know firsthand hurricanes are nothing you wanna mess with.

Be safe.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Glenn,
> 
> Dont be a Hurricane Cowboy and try to ride it out. Get your valuables to as high a spot as you can and get the hell outta Dodge.
> After living in the Caribbean for nearly five years,I know firsthand hurricanes are nothing you wanna mess with.
> ...



It will be OK I am high enough that flooding won't get me that bad.
They are saying 20" of rain.
Were I work are talking about closing on Friday.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I was going to say the same as MZ...drive West, Glenn...don't ride it out!


----------



## parbaked

Glenn...you and Lucy can always come visit Clayton and me in the Bay Area.
We have plenty of sunshine, pizza and tequila...
Stay Safe!


----------



## 2359glenn

parbaked said:


> Glenn...you and Lucy can always come visit Clayton and me in the Bay Area.
> We have plenty of sunshine, pizza and tequila...
> Stay Safe!



What do I do with the dogs can't really take them on a plane.
But the pizza sounds good can't get good pizza here.


----------



## whirlwind

Stay safe Glenn.

I thought about you when I heard the new of the hurricane.

Hopefully you will not be without electric for two weeks!

Do you have a generator ?


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Stay safe Glenn.
> 
> I thought about you when I heard the new of the hurricane.
> 
> ...



Yes I have a generator enough gas for 2 days should have gotten more. Can't even buy gas now most stations are out.


----------



## whirlwind

Hoping for the best for you.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Hoping for the best for you.



I live far enough from the coast so it shouldn't be that bad maybe allot of flooding. On the way back from work seen
the power company cutting back trees a little late.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Look at that!!!   Thurs 2pm 140 MPH....24 hours later...Fri 2pm...still 115 MPH!!

Good lord!

.


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 11, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Look at that!!!   Thurs 2pm 140 MPH....24 hours later...Fri 2pm...still 115 MPH!!
> 
> Good lord!
> 
> .



Direct hit can't get any worse. Now they are saying might go up to category 5.


----------



## UntilThen

Monster of a hurricane. I hope you will be alright Glenn.


----------



## gibosi

Not to make light of this hurricane, but Glenn lives far enough inland that for him it will likely be more of a rain event than a wind event. But even so, the total amount of rain may well be measured in feet rather than inches, so severe flooding is a real concern.

Glenn, I hope you stay safe and dry.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yes, too much water will be Glenn's peril - but he will get some winds too, looks like.

Here is an interesting ditty for Glenn:

https://www.wral.com/lifestyles/travel/video/8150131/


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, too much water will be Glenn's peril - but he will get some winds too, looks like.
> 
> Here is an interesting ditty for Glenn:
> 
> https://www.wral.com/lifestyles/travel/video/8150131/



Funny I live right next to Kerr lake and figure most roads will be closed as the lake rises with 20" of rain.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Well it looks like us in North Carolina are going to get a direct hit from hurricane Florence going to make a mess.
> The power company is already saying be prepared for the power to be out for two weeks.


Hmm, reminds me of Sandy, 6 yrs ago.....


----------



## mordy

Hi Glenn,
Hoping everything will be fine. Where I live we were out of electricity for 8 days after Sandy hit. I think the safest way to have a generator is for it to run on natural gas, but pricey with installation.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Funny I live right next to Kerr lake and figure most roads will be closed as the lake rises with 20" of rain.



The John K Kerr Dam, Buggs Island, etc, my family went camping in this area many times, when I was a kid  

.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Guys, after you received the Glenns, where is/are your *FELIKS?? Just curious.*


My Elise and Euforia are collecting dust....


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> My Elise and Euforia are collecting dust....



...........................


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> Hoping everything will be fine. Where I live we were out of electricity for 8 days after Sandy hit. I think the safest way to have a generator is for it to run on natural gas, but pricey with installation.


We lost power for a couple of days. Really enjoy the time with my family. 

I got stuck on Rt. 1 for more than 5 mins before I realized that's the line for GAS.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Tonight's selection of study:

 

Manu Katche is a drummer of French and African dissent.  He will have your foot tapping to the rhythm while his mates sound out the language of love.  Love of jazz music, that is.

Released March of 2010, this features a number of expirenced sessioneers who interact superbly together. They intermingle among the daring drumming that contains surprises...often enough to keep you guessing as to what will happen next.

I stayed with the Russian 6N13S / 6BL7 Flat Plate on each side for powers and the Tung Sol 12SN7 BGRP for driver.  This is absolute perfection and magic for my HD650's.  Can't imagine a single ended signal sounding better.  Maybe it's my Genre or my particular pair of HD650's (that I bought an XLR terminated silver cable for) but...to my great surprise the GOTL really works some wonders with this tube combo.

Fat fat bass by Pino Pallidino and breathy saxophone playing by Tore Brunborg, sounds so real that you will want to scoot over in your seat to give him some more room to "stretch out"...

Glenn said when I ordered this amp "Forget what you think you know about tube sound via other amps, different circuit in mine, you will have to rediscover what sounds best, all over again"...

And wow...was he ever right 

Thanks, Glenn.

Cheers all...

Hunker down Glenn, may the storm blow over and leave you and yours,  unscathed....

.


----------



## lukeap69

Stay safe Glenn!

There is also a supertyphoon in my parent's area in the Philippines and here I am in Dubai avoiding going out due to hot weather (40+ deg C).


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> ...........................


Are those dust particles?
Truth is that I should sell at least the Elise. The silver lining is that the price more than doubled since I bought it, so maybe I can get back what I paid for it.
Although my amp is in very good working order, several owners experienced heat related problems, and I am worried that a new owner might experience problems with the amp. 
One of the owners sent in his amp to FA for an overhaul, and was told that the internals were pretty much burnt up, but it was blamed on using non-recommended tubes.
Another owner sold his amp, but the new owner claimed that it arrived non-working and had to send it back to Poland for repair.
Maybe just try to sell it locally and demonstrate that everything works, but that limits the exposure to potential buyers.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've been considering selling my Inspire IHA-1 for similar reasons.  I like it and think it's a great amp, but I like Glenn's amp better and the IHA-1 just isn't getting used.  Hate making decisions like this.


----------



## 2359glenn

Now it looks like the storm is more in South Carolina so might be spared the mess here in northern North Carolina.
But who really knows were it is going to go?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Like large forest fires out west....these monsters go where they want. 

Here is latest rain predictions:


----------



## JazzVinyl

And 7 day rain prediction...


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> I've been considering selling my Inspire IHA-1 for similar reasons.  I like it and think it's a great amp, but I like Glenn's amp better and the IHA-1 just isn't getting used.  Hate making decisions like this.


Easy decision when one is better than the other and the other isn't getting used


----------



## whirlwind

Rolled in the United Electric 596 rectifier this afternoon and enjoying this tremendously 
with ZMF Ori.


----------



## mordy

I get it - the pink anode wires.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Rolled in the United Electric 596 rectifier this afternoon and enjoying this tremendously
> with ZMF Ori.



Wild looking rectifier, Joe!

What sonic attributes does it bring to the party?

I returned to 6x 6BL7 for powers....along with TS 12SN7 BGRP driving...getting enormous bass.  Maybe the 6x BX/BL's are best for the GOTL...


----------



## JazzVinyl

A Tweet from the International Space Station:


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Easy decision when one is better than the other and the other isn't getting used



It's why I sold off the Ragnarok which I like a lot until GOTL came.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 13, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Wild looking rectifier, Joe!
> 
> What sonic attributes does it bring to the party?
> 
> I returned to 6x 6BL7 for powers....along with TS 12SN7 BGRP driving...getting enormous bass.  Maybe the 6x BX/BL's are best for the GOTL...



Great mid range..tilted a little toward the warm side maybe....imaging is top notch...such a nice clean sounding rectifier and one of my favorites.

The bass is killer with the ZMF Ori...seems a bit light with the HD800...probably more about the headphone than the rectifier.


----------



## mordy

Thoroughly enjoying my GOTL with a 6N23P as driver and a pair each of Sylvania 6BL7 FP and Mullard 6080.
The C3g tubes sound bright in some combinations - maybe these power tubes will work well with them?



These Siemens C3g tubes are supposed to be older variants with an embossed name and tube designation on the top of the casing.
Got several used ones at one time and tried to grade them in the Little Dot MKIII. I used some stickers from my grandchildren - this time it is not a smiley but it says Star Student. Anyhow, all the rules are out with the GOTL, and the tubes don't sound the same as before, and almost nothing sounds bad.
The sound is very good and no trace of being too bright. They do sound a little different than the 6N23P, but I find it hard to describe the difference. Like the difference between Cherry-Vanilla ice cream and Cherry-Vanilla ice cream with chocolate chips.
There IS a difference, maybe more chocolaty if you know what I mean - I don't know lol.......
OK, let me try to describe the difference. Putting on my analytical hat. Gives me a headache to try - forget it!
Just enjoying the warm Mullardesque mid range and the mesquital upper range (these words are not in Websters yet but give subtle hints to the cognoscenti).


----------



## Xcalibur255

leftside said:


> Easy decision when one is better than the other and the other isn't getting used



I get emotionally attached to things.  Logically the decision is easy.  In reality nothing in life ever is.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Thoroughly enjoying my GOTL with a 6N23P as driver and a pair each of Sylvania 6BL7 FP and Mullard 6080.
> The C3g tubes sound bright in some combinations - maybe these power tubes will work well with them?
> 
> These Siemens C3g tubes are supposed to be older variants with an embossed name and tube designation on the top of the casing.
> ...



The C3g also sounds good with all 6BX7/6BL7s.
I will try a 6BX7 or 6BL7 along with 6AS7 types never done mix matched tubes before.
You guys are crazy but might be on to something good.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Thoroughly enjoying my GOTL with a 6N23P as driver and a pair each of Sylvania 6BL7 FP and Mullard 6080.
> The C3g tubes sound bright in some combinations - maybe these power tubes will work well with them?
> 
> These Siemens C3g tubes are supposed to be older variants with an embossed name and tube designation on the top of the casing.
> ...



Nice Mordy! I can’t wait to try some of those combinations. I have to ask, are those star stickers on the c3gs? I also found that the c3gs really get in there with layers and depth. They make my HD650s disappear.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Nice Mordy! I can’t wait to try some of those combinations. I have to ask, are those star stickers on the c3gs? I also found that the c3gs really get in there with layers and depth. They make my HD650s disappear.


Hi P,
The first row of tubes with metal enclosures are the C3g tubes. Underneath is a glass tube but I assume that the aluminum casing has a function, maybe to protect from RF interference.
These tubes were made for transatlantic telephone transmissions and were very expensive when new - around DM195. My guess is that that would translate into around $800 in today's money, but I could not found a good inflation calculator since the currency has changed to Euros.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi P,
> The first row of tubes with metal enclosures are the C3g tubes. Underneath is a glass tube but I assume that the aluminum casing has a function, maybe to protect from RF interference.
> These tubes were made for transatlantic telephone transmissions and were very expensive when new - around DM195. My guess is that that would translate into around $800 in today's money, but I could not found a good inflation calculator since the currency has changed to Euros.



Hey Mordy,

I was asking about this bit  :


----------



## mordy

Don't remember what the stickers mean any more, but it doesn't matter in the GOTL....


----------



## 2359glenn

All the tubes sound good when the operating points are what the manufactures say to use.
Some people/company's think they smarter then the engineers that designed the tubes they are not.
It is simple just do what they say and it will sound great.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> Hey Mordy,
> 
> I was asking about this bit  :



Thought he explained in the Orig Post?



mordy said:


> These Siemens C3g tubes are supposed to be older variants with an embossed name and tube designation on the top of the casing.
> Got several used ones at one time and tried to grade them in the Little Dot MKIII. *I used some stickers from my grandchildren - this time it is not a smiley but it says Star Student.*


----------



## JazzVinyl

I vote for:

6x 6BL7's  (four flat plates and two RCA side getter/clear tops)
TS 12SN7 BGRP

HD650 with XLR terminated silver cable...

For musical nirvana from the GOTL


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Thought he explained in the Orig Post?



I didn’t even notice the original post. That’s an oversight on my part. Thanks JV.

Mordy, that’s hilarious on the stickers. Super cool to have your kids stickers on the tubes. Made me crack a smile!


----------



## mordy

I am the old school - don't like to waste anything. After the grandchildren stopped playing and left some stickers I had to find some use for them.
The best use was to paste two stickers over an overly bright PC light to dim it.
Trying to figure out what to do with a couple of broken tubes....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I am the old school - don't like to waste anything. After the grandchildren stopped playing and left some stickers I had to find some use for them.
> The best use was to paste two stickers over an overly bright PC light to dim it.
> Trying to figure out what to do with a couple of broken tubes....



Attach battery and led underneath, and make Christmas tree ornaments out of them!

Oops!  Just gave away my million dollar idea!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Attach battery and led underneath, and make Christmas tree ornaments out of them!
> 
> Oops!  Just gave away my million dollar idea!







But the glass broke on my Chatham 6AS7G.....

Here is an idea - would work for my Sylvania 6BL7 without vacuum :




This looks like a good use for the unused 6AK5 tubes:




OK - let's get serious. How about a 64GB tube flash drive? Only $69 (The Genalex version costs more):




https://www.amazon.com/Handmade-ORANGE-Pentode-Steampunk-Industrial/dp/B00NB0QYPQ
Have fun!


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's getting close now.  Stay safe Glenn.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> But the glass broke on my Chatham 6AS7G.....
> 
> Here is an idea - would work for my Sylvania 6BL7 without vacuum :
> 
> ...


Haha, you need a couple boxes of these to go with your new amp. Check with Glenn to see if you can use these.

https://www.amazon.com/BCP-Slow-Blow-3-15A-Glass-Fuses/dp/B01ANBZV18?th=1


----------



## gibosi (Sep 14, 2018)

Those with GOTL's using vacuum tube rectification should definitely have spare fuses: 3.15 Amp, 250 volt, 5mm x 20mm, slow blow (as above).  I've probably gone through a half a dozen so far, but then I roll more off-the-wall rectifiers than most. lol.

And perhaps even those with HEXFRED's might want to have a couple spares just in case, but I don't know if these amps use the same fuse.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I have never blown a fuse in my OTL, it's still running the one Glenn installed when he built it.  I've even had that high amp Soviet missile shaped rectiifer in it and had no issues.

My 45 blew its fuse when the rectifier arced and fried all the resistors in the power supply, but since that unfortunate incident it too has never consumed a fuse.


----------



## Redmetal1897 (Sep 14, 2018)

Got my GOTL this week. Unfortunately very limited listening time so far (about 3 hours total). Set up with the  3DG4 rectifier/ 13D1 driver/ 2x 6H13 output that Glenn sent me. Source from my laptop, DAC chord Mojo. HP's are the Auteur Teak with the Auteur pads.

After the initial brain burn in/system warming/whatever you want to call it, I was blown away by how much better my Auteurs were capable of sounding. The bass/sub bass has been elevated to a different level altogether. There was sub bass in songs I didn't know existed, and in some songs the Auteur threatened to come off my head from the rumble! The bass is tight, dynamic, punchy, never overpowering the other frequencies.

In terms of separation,  I can literally feel the air between instruments and the overall sound is enveloping. Alot of the music I listen to can get busy at times, but the OTL presented everything clearly yet cohesively, never sounding artificially separated. Vocals reached out and grabbed you. That feeling of being in the venue or being there for the performance becomes more real.

The only thing I have found with the Auteur pads is the heat from the upper mids can edge into fatiguing territory. I tend to listen to my music quite loud so that is partly to blame. I switched to the Eikon pads, and that seems to have resolved the issue for the most part. I am yet to try out the 6 6BX7 combo (though I have them in house). 

Overall - the sonic performance has been elevated to a level I didn't think was possible. Great work Glenn, very happy with the amp. Build quality is awesome and it feels like a premium product. Well worth the wait!


----------



## FunctionalDoc

You are making me excited to get my OTL from Glenn . I think I might be next on the  list for a build. 

I have Teak Auteur's also and I can't hardly wait.


----------



## Redmetal1897

It is well worth the wait!!

Just need to figure out a way to sneak in more listening time this weekend...


----------



## UntilThen

I was quite sure that would be your experience Daanish. It seems a very long time ago when you spoke to me about the GOTL.

Enjoy, the journey's ahead.


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> I have never blown a fuse in my OTL, it's still running the one Glenn installed when he built it.  I've even had that high amp Soviet missile shaped rectiifer in it and had no issues.
> 
> My 45 blew its fuse when the rectifier arced and fried all the resistors in the power supply, but since that unfortunate incident it too has never consumed a fuse.



You just never know...

The first rectifier I bought for the GOTL was a Tung-Sol 3DG4. Glenn gave me a Sylvania, but some here felt that the TS was better, so I purchased one and it immediately shorted out. And of course, as designed, the fuse blew too. I didn't have any spare fuses and had to wait until the next day to get one. So much for my plans to listen to music that night....  

So again, if your GOTL has tube rectification, pick up a few spare fuses. In the unlikely event that you do have a rectifier blow, toss it out, install a new fuse, and you can go back to listening to music without hardly missing a beat.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> You just never know...
> 
> The first rectifier I bought for the GOTL was a Tung-Sol 3DG4. Glenn gave me a Sylvania, but some here felt that the TS was better, so I purchased one and it immediately shorted out. And of course, as designed, the fuse blew too. I didn't have any spare fuses and had to wait until the next day to get one. So much for my plans to listen to music that night....
> 
> So again, if your GOTL has tube rectification, pick up a few spare fuses. In the unlikely event that you do have a rectifier blow, toss it out, install a new fuse, and you can go back to listening to music without hardly missing a beat.



I now send a few spare fuses with the amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

The storm here is mostly over still supposed to rain for the next couple of days.
Still have power for some reason.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The storm here is mostly over still supposed to rain for the next couple of days.
> Still have power for some reason.



That is some great news.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> The storm here is mostly over still supposed to rain for the next couple of days.
> Still have power for some reason.



Good news, hope your home is on high ground and you can avoid any of the serious flooding.
Keeping the power makes it a lot easier. Sitting it out with no communication or information is the worst.
Stay safe and dry.


----------



## rnros

Daanish said:


> Overall - the sonic performance has been elevated to a level I didn't think was possible. Great work Glenn, very happy with the amp. Build quality is awesome and it feels like a premium product. Well worth the wait!



Congrats on the GOTL, Daanish. 
Not surprised that you're immediately impressed. And there's more to come as you explore some of the great tube options available.
Agree with you on the ability of GOTL to handle complex recordings. The amp is so transparent, it easily shows not only recording quality, but also the subtle differences in the best of the available drivers and power tubes. Lots to explore. Enjoy!


----------



## mordy

_Hi Glenn,
"Sitting it out with no communication or information is the worst"_
Glad to hear that everything is all right. When Sandy hit the worst thing was acute internet withdrawal for 8 days....And the lack of heat in the house.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> _Hi Glenn,
> "Sitting it out with no communication or information is the worst"_
> Glad to hear that everything is all right. When Sandy hit the worst thing was acute internet withdrawal for 8 days....And the lack of heat in the house.



We do have a generator bought $40 of gas for it didn't need to use it. Have the gas for the winter ice storms now.


----------



## Xcalibur255

There's always something.

Nice to hear you didn't get hit too hard.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Daanish said:


> It is well worth the wait!!
> 
> Just need to figure out a way to sneak in more listening time this weekend...



Congrats Daanish!


----------



## UntilThen

Anyone using Audio Gd NFB 2.1 dac ?


----------



## JazzVinyl

C3g and six pack of 6BX7's..

Enjoying Johnny Clegg and Savuka...

Kind of a new age-ish band with international flavor doing politically inspired themes..


 

Very enjoyable via C3g's...detail city and generous bass, and a very distinct soundstage...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Now it's Michael Manring: "Book Of Flame"...

Manring is a New Age Bass player, this is a great album.  Lots of hidden gems that the C3g's dig out...


----------



## UntilThen

GOTL has a new partner and it sounds beautiful.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> GOTL has a new partner and it sounds beautiful.


Does it reproduce bass well?


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 17, 2018)

It produces everything well.  More importantly it's cheap because it's yesteryear star.

On the weekend, I drop into Addicted To Audio and enquired about upgrading Yggy to Analog 2 and USB Gen 5. I was told it will cost me AUD $1168 - they will send it to Melbourne headquarters for the upgrade. Freight free but for that price !!! I have to chew on it for a bit.

So in the meantime, I bought this Audio Gd dac and was pleasantly surprise at how good it sounded and it cost me AUD $260.


----------



## UntilThen

System matching is important and tubes in the scheme of things, plays only a small part. Change the source and headphone, the resultant sound will change quite dramatically. 

Audio Gd NFB 2.1 compared to Yggy is slightly warmer and has less details but only just. Bass more pronounced and soundstage is still comparatively wide. I'm still using Beyer T90 which I've grown quite fond of in the last 2 weeks. So I just found that I can still enjoy my music as much with a cheap headphone and dac.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> System matching is important and tubes in the scheme of things, plays only a small part. Change the source and headphone, the resultant sound will change quite dramatically.
> 
> Audio Gd NFB 2.1 compared to Yggy is slightly warmer and has less details but only just. Bass more pronounced and soundstage is still comparatively wide. I'm still using Beyer T90 which I've grown quite fond of in the last 2 weeks. So I just found that I can still enjoy my music as much with a cheap headphone and dac.



Audio-gd make good DACs. I still have NFB-1 DAC and R-19.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> It produces everything well.  More importantly it's cheap because it's yesteryear star.
> 
> On the weekend, I drop into Addicted To Audio and enquired about upgrading Yggy to Analog 2 and USB Gen 5. I was told it will cost me AUD $1168 - they will send it to Melbourne headquarters for the upgrade. Freight free but for that price !!! I have to chew on it for a bit.
> 
> So in the meantime, I bought this Audio Gd dac and was pleasantly surprise at how good it sounded and it cost me AUD $260.



That's almost the cost of an arm and a leg! I stay stick with what you have and enjoy the Audio Gd for now. Do you use USB or coax as input?


----------



## gibosi

And I'll add my voice to the chorus.... I've had two Audio Gd DACs, currently an R2R1, and I continue to be very pleased.


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> And I'll add my voice to the chorus.... I've had two Audio Gd DACs, currently an R2R1, and I continue to be very pleased.



Would you say the sound of the DAC is inherently smooth?


----------



## gibosi

In a nutshell, yes, the R2R1 is very smooth. To my ears, it sounds like analog. I like it.


----------



## Rossliew

I've listened to their headphone amps and i find it a tad too smooth such that songs seems to lose that PRAT..perhaps its the type of music i listen to, which requires a fair bit of aggression in them


----------



## gibosi

Rossliew said:


> I've listened to their headphone amps and i find it a tad too smooth such that songs seems to lose that PRAT..perhaps its the type of music i listen to, which requires a fair bit of aggression in them



It may well be that Audio-gd sonics are not your cup of tea. But I was coming at this from a different direction. The R2R1 is a ladder dac. And similar to what others have noted, it has a rather different sound. That is, compared to my previous Audio-gd dac, it doesn't sound digitized, it sounds closer to analog, "smoother".

Ah, but describing sound with words always comes up short...


----------



## leftside

The talk of DACs sounding analog.... does anyone else have their turntable and DAC connected to a preamp? 

The differences can be quite revealing. I drop the needle on the turntable and as soon as music is playing I also hit the "play" button on the computer music player (JRiver or Roon) connected to the DAC. Then with a simple button press on the remote of the preamp I can switch between DAC and turntable. It soon becomes very obvious how "good" a remastered digital file is (or not...). Some music I prefer on vinyl, others digital. Obviously, the analog and digital setups should be of similar quality/price for a fair comparison. Too many times I see vinyl enthusiasts saying their (cheap) digital setup doesn't compare to their (expensive) analog rig.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> GOTL has a new partner and it sounds beautiful.



That is the right combo of tubes, to make things SMOOTH out too  

I love the TS BGRP and a 6 pack of BX's or BL's (even better)


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> That is the right combo of tubes, to make things SMOOTH out too
> 
> I love the TS BGRP and a 6 pack of BX's or BL's (even better)



Tung Sol black glass round plates are truly outstanding indeed but in this setup, I prefer using the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. Every base is covered here very well. High frequencies extensions, dynamics, airiness, mid-range tonal richness and impactful bass that is hard and fast. It's an exciting sound. Makes me explore my music again.


----------



## UntilThen

Plug Yggdrasil in again and WOW ..... details, details and mother of all details.   Details to make you intoxicated. The saying, "I can hear everything now" has never been more true but Audio Gd has more heft and puff. Bass is fuller. Overall tone is more meat to the bones.

But here's the rub. Yggy cost me AUD $3850 and Audio Gd NFB 2.1 cost me AUD $260 2nd hand. If I am honest with myself, I could really live with Audio Gd although Yggy is truly a class act. The question is how much better the analog 2 and USB Gen 5 upgrade is.


----------



## Rossliew

Go for the yggy upgrade and sell me the Audio gd lol..


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Go for the yggy upgrade and sell me the Audio gd lol..



Maybe. Stay tuned.   After all I did sell off the NAD M51. Another great sounding dac. At AUD $730, you should have bought it.  Another very details orientated dac.


----------



## UntilThen

Notice that my amp is constant while I toy around with other dacs and headphones. It would be hard to replace the amp. It's a superb sounding amp, especially with all the lovely drivers that I have. It will be next June when the DNA Stratus arrive. Then I will have another fun time comparing amps.


----------



## UntilThen

I've narrowed down to 5 favourite drivers. 

Left to right:  Sylvania 6sn7w metal base in the GOTL, Ecc33, Ecc35, Gec B36 and TS bgrp.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Maybe. Stay tuned.   After all I did sell off the NAD M51. Another great sounding dac. At AUD $730, you should have bought it.  Another very details orientated dac.



I need me a balanced dac for my gsx as I've two single ended ones already - Bifrost multibit and the Hugo 2


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I've narrowed down to 5 favourite drivers.
> 
> Left to right:  Sylvania 6sn7w metal base in the GOTL, Ecc33, Ecc35, Gec B36 and TS bgrp.


Hi UT,
Since we have the same amp, I am just curious how this setup will sound in comparison:



Pairs of Siemens C3g, Syl FP 6BL7, GE 6BX7 and Mullard 6080
Put on my T1 headphones and I hear this crackling sound - what's going on?
LOL - a tropical parting downpour hitting my roof of what's left of the the storm Florence.....
Anyhow, this tube combination sounds just right to my ears.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Since we have the same amp, I am just curious how this setup will sound in comparison:
> 
> Pairs of Siemens C3g, Syl FP 6BL7, GE 6BX7 and Mullard 6080
> ...



Between you and UT posting great pics it’s making it hard for me to keep the amp in the box. I moved but it’s temporary and I’m itching to bring out the GOTL. Packing it up for the move itself hurt as I just wanted to sit and listen to music for hours on end. I think I’ll unpack it as sooner or later i’ll do it.

I see the c3gs, the Sylvania 6BL7s(?), but what brand are those 6080s? I’m sure it sounds fantastic.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Between you and UT posting great pics it’s making it hard for me to keep the amp in the box. I moved but it’s temporary and I’m itching to bring out the GOTL. Packing it up for the move itself hurt as I just wanted to sit and listen to music for hours on end. I think I’ll unpack it as sooner or later i’ll do it.
> 
> I see the c3gs, the Sylvania 6BL7s(?), but what brand are those 6080s? I’m sure it sounds fantastic.


Pairs of old embossed Siemens C3g, Sylvania flat plate  6BL7, General Electric 6BX7 and British Mullard 6080


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Pairs of old embossed Siemens C3g, Sylvania flat plate  6BL7, General Electric 6BX7 and British Mullard 6080



Thanks Mordy! I’ve always wanted to hear those 6080 Mullards as they’re highly praised.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> I need me a balanced dac for my gsx as I've two single ended ones already - Bifrost multibit and the Hugo 2



Ross, you're assembling nice gear.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Since we have the same amp, I am just curious how this setup will sound in comparison:



Mordy, I stop experimenting mixing tubes otherwise there'll be no end. You go on though and enjoy.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Between you and UT posting great pics it’s making it hard for me to keep the amp in the box. I moved but it’s temporary and I’m itching to bring out the GOTL. Packing it up for the move itself hurt as I just wanted to sit and listen to music for hours on end. I think I’ll unpack it as sooner or later i’ll do it.
> 
> I see the c3gs, the Sylvania 6BL7s(?), but what brand are those 6080s? I’m sure it sounds fantastic.



You know you are going to take it out. Then comes the DAC . Then you are in trouble so keep the boxes close.


----------



## 2359glenn

I an listening to Zach's amp with six X 6BX7 and C3g drivers using the Auteur.
You know I don't even use my HD-650s or HD800s anymore go right to the Auteur's


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
One reason I am doing it is because I am trying to find great sounding inexpensive tubes. Paid less for all eight tubes than the current price for one of the drivers you use. On the other hand, the tube prices now are starting to go into the stratosphere, and it gets harder and harder to find good buys - most of the tubes I use were bought a few years back.
However, one of the tubes in the picture I just bought (Sylvania 6BL7) for $5 including shipping.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Ooo La La, with 6 pack of 6BX7 and 1940’s Visseaux 6N7G....

Wanted 6BL7’s but was too lazy to change them after a long day at work...

Hey....Mordy...all these tubes pretty inexpensive

And sound great....


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 19, 2018)

Changed driver to 1970 “Harman Kardon” (actually Philips) 12AU7...

Can’t beat the 12AU7 and ECC804 for a completely quiet/black background...

Really sounds great!!

Thank you Glenn for letting me run a 12v tube, without a hassle


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Changed driver to 1970 “Harman Kardon” (actually Philips) 12AU7...
> 
> Can’t beat the 12AU7 and ECC804 for a completely quiet/black background...
> 
> ...



Makes it more fun!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Coupla tunes before work...


----------



## JazzVinyl

All excited y'all...

Bought a ticket to see the Pharoah Sanders Quartet at a local theater, Sept 28th - 7:30pm, the show will be professionally video'ed for an upcoming documentary on Pharoah's life,

He is a big time Jazz Legend...77 years young, and he played with all the big big names in Jazz back in the 60's when America was experiencing great turmoil, and changes.  

This is right down my alley!



Can't wait!!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> All excited y'all...
> 
> Bought a ticket to see the Pharoah Sanders Quartet at a local theater, Sept 28th - 7:30pm, the show will be professionally video'ed for an upcoming documentary on Pharoah's life,
> 
> ...


Listened to the beginning of the Karma album. Not for me, just as the music I listen to isn't your taste at all:

Your stuff is from the late 60's and early 70's - my stuff is from the 20's LOL....


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> All excited y'all...
> 
> Bought a ticket to see the Pharoah Sanders Quartet at a local theater, Sept 28th - 7:30pm, the show will be professionally video'ed for an upcoming documentary on Pharoah's life,
> 
> ...





mordy said:


> Listened to the beginning of the Karma album. Not for me, just as the music I listen to isn't your taste at all:
> 
> Your stuff is from the late 60's and early 70's - my stuff is from the 20's LOL....




I wont even torture you guys with the stuff I listen to!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Listened to the beginning of the Karma album. Not for me, just as the music I listen to isn't your taste at all:
> Your stuff is from the late 60's and early 70's - my stuff is from the 20's LOL....



Understand Mordy!

And agree - you and I are diametrically opposed when it comes to musical selections 

But I would say "my stuff" *starts* in the 60's and 70's and runs right up to *today*, in the *same Genre*...


----------



## JazzVinyl

I am at work, listening to my portable rig, Mordy....this might be a bit more accessible for you:



Listen to the title track "All Blues"....

Cheers, my friend!


----------



## mordy (Sep 20, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> I am at work, listening to my portable rig, Mordy....this might be a bit more accessible for you:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nyet, not for me either. Now, the music I listen to is from the past, but played by present day people. Here is a beautiful bluesy recording of the foremost New Orleans band of today, recorded 3 months ago.
Maybe it will strike a chord.....

BTW, the band leader is women trumpet player, Shaye Cohn, who plays in the idiom of the classic jazz trumpeters but in her own style.
It's fun to watch how she indicates who should play a solo or in unison with hand and foot signals and nods.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> I wont even torture you guys with the stuff I listen to!


Thin Lizzy? I like some of their stuff. Currently listening to Amelie Lens (and I'm pretty sure no one on here will like her style of techno). The wife is away, so the amps and speakers are getting a really good work out.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 20, 2018)

mordy said:


> Nyet, not for me either. Now, the music I listen to is from the past, but played by present day people. Here is a beautiful bluesy recording of the foremost New Orleans band of today, recorded 3 months ago.
> Maybe it will strike a chord....
> BTW, the band leader is women trumpet player, Shaye Cohn, who plays in the idiom of the classic jazz trumpeters but in her own style.
> It's fun to watch how she indicates who should play a solo or in unison with hand and foot signals and nods.



Hear Ya Mordy...

Mine ain't for you, and yours ain't for me...

Just the way it is...cheerio...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mordy...you might like "Trombone Shorty" - the current New Orleans musician...although he is not playing the 1920s era stuff...


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Mordy...you might like "Trombone Shorty" - the current New Orleans musician...although he is not playing the 1920s era stuff...


Hi JV,
Found a Trombone Shorty when he was 13 with Wynton Marsalis - not bad:

But this nine year old is much cuter:

This little girl blows her heart out......
The tune was originally recorded 100 years ago - one of the first jazz recordings.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 20, 2018)

Haha...there was an old guy where I grew up that drove a faded green Rambler (remember those) that had a bumper sticker that read in BIG red letters: "Bix Beiderbecke Lives"...

This was in the mid 70's when Led Zeppelin ruled most FM radio waves...

Bix died:  August 6, 1931


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 21, 2018)

leftside said:


> Thin Lizzy? I like some of their stuff.



Thin Lizzy is prolly my alltime fav band,but I listen to everything from Johnny Cash to Motorhead to The Ramones to Goa trance.

Heres some Melodeath I like


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Thin Lizzy is prolly my alltime fav band,but I listen to everything from Johnny Cash to Motorhead to The Ramones to Goa trance.
> 
> Heres some Melodeath I like



"The Pulse Of The Dead..."

But gee, guys, the dead have no pulse...


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> "The Pulse Of The Dead..."
> 
> But gee, guys, the dead have no pulse...



These days,metal has become less about sex,drugs and R&R and replaced those themes with Vikings,Norse mythology,pirates(yes,really)darkness and in this case,social commentary.

"Dead" refers to a broken soul.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 21, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> These days,metal has become less about sex,drugs and R&R and replaced those themes with Vikings,Norse mythology,pirates(yes,really)darkness and in this case,social commentary.
> 
> "Dead" refers to a broken soul.



Gotcha...

They do make it look easy...and I know it is not.

Watched a documentary on the metal band "Disturbed" and they too...made it look like falling off a log.  Always the mark of great musicians...when they can make it look easy ...


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 21, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Gotcha...
> 
> They do make it look easy...and I know it is not.
> 
> Watched a documentary on the metal band "Disturbed" and they too...made it look like falling off a log.  Always the mark of great musicians...when they can make it look easy ...



Yeah,I think a lot of people when they think about "metal" they think Kiss or Motley Crue or some other not really metal band(Im sounding like a metal elitist)
There are some seriously good musicians and talented metal bands out there,but with literally 50-75 sub-genres of metal around its really become a fractured community. For example,I do not consider Disturbed to be a metal band. Ive seen them live,and theyre excellent,but to me,theyre not "metal". Others may disagree.

Speaking of making it look easy....



On a side note,I really enjoy mellow jazz,like Bill Evans. Do you have any recommendations for other artists similar? My jazz IQ is quite limited.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Haha...there was an old guy where I grew up that drove a faded green Rambler (remember those) that had a bumper sticker that read in BIG red letters: "Bix Beiderbecke Lives"...
> 
> 
> This was in the mid 70's when Led Zeppelin ruled most FM radio waves...
> ...


Bix lives:


----------



## leftside (Sep 21, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> Thin Lizzy is prolly my alltime fav band,but I listen to everything from Johnny Cash to Motorhead to The Ramones to Goa trance.
> 
> Heres some Melodeath I like


We have certain similarities in music tastes. Motorhead or earlier Ministry is about as heavy as I like it tho - no thrash metal for me. Saw Motorhead a few times in England, and once in Toronto. Also saw The Ramones in Newcastle England, and I've been to more than my share of Goa Trance parties...

Without looking, I presume you know who did the original of this song? The band who did the original used to be great live back in their day. Kinda suck live now.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 21, 2018)

leftside said:


> We have certain similarities in music tastes. Motorhead or earlier Ministry is about as heavy as I like it tho - no thrash metal for me. Saw Motorhead a few times in England, and once in Toronto. Also saw The Ramones in Newcastle England, and I've been to more than my share of Goa Trance parties...
> 
> Without looking, I presume you know who did the original of this song? The band who did the original used to be great live back in their day. Kinda suck live now.



The Johnny Cash rendering of this Nine Inch Nails song is outstanding!

Nine Inch Nails was just in Denver (actually Morrison Colorado) at the famous Red Rocks Amphitheater...last Wednesday night.

We didn't go...but we did babysit a 4 month old, so that a young couple we know...could go  

I didn't know they "sucked these days"....


----------



## leftside

Suck


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 21, 2018)

leftside said:


> We have certain similarities in music tastes. Motorhead or earlier Ministry is about as heavy as I like it tho - no thrash metal for me. Saw Motorhead a few times in England, and once in Toronto. Also saw The Ramones in Newcastle England, and I've been to more than my share of Goa Trance parties...
> 
> Without looking, I presume you know who did the original of this song? The band who did the original used to be great live back in their day. Kinda suck live now.




I dont like much thrash metal either,though some melodeath,speed,pagan,doom,stoner and of course traditional metal are my go to genres.

My son layed a good one on me the other day:

What do metal and apples have in common?

Always avoid the cores. 

@Hansotek  will prolly hate me for that one.

J.C.s version of Hurt is the best cover ever IMO....and I hate NIN.

I also love early Uncle Al,but his newer stuff is awful.

@JazzVinyl  Did you see my request a few posts up?


----------



## Hansotek

Monsterzero said:


> I dont like much thrash metal either,though some melodeath,speed,pagan,doom,stoner and of course traditional metal are my go to genres.
> 
> My son layed a good one on me the other day:
> 
> ...



Ha! If I actually cared about other people liking the music I do, I'd be in big trouble, as my tastes tend to be pretty baroque.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> @JazzVinyl  Did you see my request a few posts up?



No, MZ, I am afraid I missed it....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> On a side note,I really enjoy mellow jazz,like Bill Evans. Do you have any recommendations for other artists similar? My jazz IQ is quite limited.



Oh, see it now.  

Pretty much any Trio on the ECM label that has a piano...pays homage to Bill Evans.


----------



## JazzVinyl

6 pack 6BL7's and Philips 12AU7

Tomasz Stanko New York Quartet: "Wialawa"


 

And life is truly good...


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 22, 2018)

I can get in to some metal, mostly older stuff I use to listen to.
I definitely liked Thin Lizzy. Not even so sure what they call metal today, too many different types of it .

Just got this yesterday and I am enjoying it with the GEL3N & the ZMF Ori


----------



## JazzVinyl

Look at my new radio!  Just picked it up today!!

 

It's a 1941 Montgomery Wards...

Works great!!  And it has a working Magic Eye tube!


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Look at my new radio!  Just picked it up today!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Neat
I have a old Philco that will cut 78rpm records off the radio. Early recording but don't know were to get 78 blanks.
Have a bunch o old radios.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Neat
> I have a old Philco that will cut 78rpm records off the radio. Early recording but don't know were to get 78 blanks.
> Have a bunch o old radios.



Ha! How cool...mine says radio/phono but I don't see the phono input.  Manual says a few models up from this one offered the "recording arm turntable" as an option, you had to switch out the playback arm for a "recording arm" 

Montgomery Wards catalog page for mine in 1941 says $47.95...or $5.00 down and $5.00 a month.

Inflation calc says 47.95 in 1941 is equivalent to $857.48 today!!! 

So a console radio like this was a major $$$ investment in Entertainment for its day!!! Can imagine what your Recording Philco must have run..!!

Thinking about converting this one to be a fun Bluetooth Speaker


----------



## 2359glenn

There should be a phono input to fed audio in. Most of these radios sound pretty good when fed with a good clean signal.
You should be able to find a RCA input but it might be some thing different think the RCA jack came out in the 40s 
My Philco has 2 arm's one for recording and one for playback.  
Actually the Philco was my parents I can remember playing records on it and it falling over on me when I was little.
The phono graph opened out the front and I leaned on it and the radio fell forward on me. Didn't get heart but it scad me.
Yours might be older the Philco has two 6K6 output tubes and a 6J5 phase inverter 5Y3 rectifier all other tubes were locktal.


----------



## attmci (Sep 23, 2018)

Anyone wanna try this interesting plugin?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/reveal-plugins-dsp-for-audeze-headphones.864146/

You don't have to have a *Audeze. *


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> There should be a phono input to fed audio in. Most of these radios sound pretty good when fed with a good clean signal.
> You should be able to find a RCA input but it might be some thing different think the RCA jack came out in the 40s
> My Philco has 2 arm's one for recording and one for playback.
> Actually the Philco was my parents I can remember playing records on it and it falling over on me when I was little.
> ...



We had a German Grundig console with turntable and AM/SW radio when I was growing up. In a really pretty cabinet.  And we almost had it fall over on us too, but a big sister saved the day 

Definitely cannot find an RCA input anywhere...have asked the gentlemen who sold it to me if he knows anything about where and what kind of input Jack it would be. 

Don't know if any caps have been replaced in it.  Seller said he restrung the dial/pointer, not sure if he did anything else.

Here is the specs:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/montgomery_04br907a.html


----------



## whirlwind

A bit off topic, but I framed a few more and hung some concert posters on my wall yesterday, the wall does not look so bare now and the concert posters look damn cool all framed up.


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 23, 2018)

The RCA jack is on the right


JazzVinyl said:


> We had a German Grundig console with turntable and AM/SW radio when I was growing up. In a really pretty cabinet.  And we almost had it fall over on us too, but a big sister saved the day
> 
> Definitely cannot find an RCA input anywhere...have asked the gentlemen who sold it to me if he knows anything about where and what kind of input Jack it would be.
> 
> ...



JV
The RCA jack is on the Right side of the chassis.  The left has the power transformer and 5Y3 rectifier. Right has the audio output transformer.
It is not on the back it is on the side of the chassis. On the schematic it says phono/TV audio input.
http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Resources/download.asp?FN=\M0011000.pdf
It should sound pretty good no tweeter though. Electromagnetic speaker there weren't magnets
powerful enough for big speakers so it had a electromagnet that doubled as the choke.
A 6J5 phase inverter (1/2 a 6SN7) two 6F6 audio outputs in push pull,


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> A bit off topic, but I framed a few more and hung some concert posters on my wall yesterday, the wall does not look so bare now and the concert posters look damn cool all framed up.



Loving it Joe, Looks great!  Your two awesome amps and fancy DAC and fancy chair....!!!

A wonderful space!!!  Well done, now for some mood lighting.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> The RCA jack is on the right
> 
> 
> JV
> ...



Hello Glenn...

Right-o!  It was right there on the right all along, I had just missed it.  It does work.  Sounds OK, thinking some caps may need a refresh.  
Hear ya on the speaker having an electro magnet that does double duty as the choke doing double duty.

Thank you *very* much for the schematic!!


----------



## gibosi

Those of you who have been patiently waiting for new-production Western Electric 300B will have to wait even longer...

http://westernelectric.com/news/rossville-works-update.html

On the other hand, Glenn could build you an amp with a pair of 6JD5 beam triodes, which are plentiful and cheap.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Those of you who have been patiently waiting for new-production Western Electric 300B will have to wait even longer...
> 
> http://westernelectric.com/news/rossville-works-update.html
> 
> On the other hand, Glenn could build you an amp with a pair of 6JD5 beam triodes, which are plentiful and cheap.



My next amp to design.
I found a couple of 5 packs of 6HV5s left over from my TV store will start with them.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Glenn...
> 
> Right-o!  It was right there on the right all along, I had just missed it.  It does work.  Sounds OK, thinking some caps may need a refresh.
> Hear ya on the speaker having an electro magnet that does double duty as the choke doing double duty.
> ...



I can tell you what caps likely to be bad I used to restore old radios.

You fed audio into the phono input??


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 23, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> I can tell you what caps likely to be bad I used to restore old radios.
> 
> You fed audio into the phono input??



Hello Glenn...

Spoke to the seller, he said it worked after replacing a couple of tubes, and restringing it, so he was happy and didn't do anything else.  So yes, I would appreciate a list of caps that are routinely wise to replace.

Yes, fed an MP3 player to the phono input. worked ok.  Pretty good amount of HUM is apparent, but it has that audio character typical for the time..where the low mids are emphasized.

Appreciate!!


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Glenn...
> 
> Spoke to the seller, he said it worked after replacing a couple of tubes, and restringing it, so he was happy and didn't do anything else.  So yes, I would appreciate a list of caps that are routinely wise to replace.
> 
> ...



First thing is change the filter capacitor and get rid of that hum. It is a 15-15-10 a 20-20-20 @ 450 volts would be fine.
Problem is getting the can out and the new one being the same size. Easier to jump singles in 20uf 450 volt.
Can you solder??


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> First thing is change the filter capacitor and get rid of that hum. It is a 15-15-10 a 20-20-20 @ 450 volts would be fine.
> Problem is getting the can out and the new one being the same size. Easier to jump singles in 20uf 450 volt.
> Can you solder??



Yes, I solder.

Do you approve of this method?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hope everyone is feeling okay, this evening...


----------



## 2359glenn

That is a good idea but some of these caps don't have that mounting plate the twist lock ground pins are right in the chassis.
You need a high wattage soldering iron.

The best was old military stuff the caps had a octal base and plugged into a tube socket. Caps were to expensive for commercial
radios.


----------



## whirlwind

Those twist and lock ground pins were the way that most tv's were back in the day.
You stuck the pins through the chasis, then twisted them to lock them in.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Those twist and lock ground pins were the way that most tv's were back in the day.
> You stuck the pins through the chasis, then twisted them to lock them in.



Yes and were soldered to the chassis with a 100 watt soldering iron.
Good luck getting them out if you are not experienced at it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Yes and were soldered to the chassis with a 100 watt soldering iron.
> Good luck getting them out if you are not experienced at it.



Million ways to skin a cat...

This guy has another idea:

https://www.instructables.com/id/Tube-Radio-Capacitor-Can-Replacement/


----------



## 2359glenn

That will work!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 27, 2018)

Hope all are well this evening....

I have the WiFi served Jazz coming to me via a Rasperrry Pi (credit card sized computer) which feeds my dual mono DAC which outputs to the Glenn OTL which happily feeds my SENN 650's via 6X 6 BL7's the the "crazy good" Mazda ECC804...

The Rasperry Pi runs Linux, who uses a program called "VLC" to play the lossless files on a large USB hard drive connected to the router down the hall. 

My iPhone has a "VLC Remote app"...I can load playlists, songs, albums, do the skip, shuffle, repeat, and control volume etc...all from my phone...

Ain't technology grand   




Cheers, all...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Where is Mordy?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Tonight is the big night for the 77 year old Saxophone player: "Pharoah Sanders"...

Last time I went and saw a horn player this age...he had some really good 30 somethings from the big city, who played like mad, while the elderly horn player stood behind the stage curtain just out of view of the audience, and enjoyed the musicianship of the youngsters, only playing a little bit.

Kind of expect the same tonight.

But since it is being filmed for a documentary...might get more.

Cheers


----------



## Phantaminum

The ribbed Fotons that I think Mordy mentioned earlier in this thread sound fantastic paired with Tung Sol 5998 power tubes and the Auteurs. Very nice combo.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Where is Mordy?


Hi JV,
Fear not, I am around but not home and far away from my beloved GOTL - visiting my daughter in Canada. My sound system is YouTube via an old Chromebook, using Nakamichi noise reduction headphones.
Somehow, this "system" does not invite extended listening sessions, and the wow factor is noticeable absent....

Not much activity on the forums I check....

Will be back middle of coming week - meanwhile concentrating on family and grandchildren.

Curious if a pair of EL32 or EL11/EL12N could be used in the C3g slots if suitable adapters could be made - I think all these tubes are pentodes.
On the other hand, why bother? The GOTL sounds great with the "regular" tubes.
BUT.......


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> Fear not, I am around but not home and far away from my beloved GOTL - visiting my daughter in Canada. My sound system is YouTube via an old Chromebook, using Nakamichi noise reduction headphones.
> Somehow, this "system" does not invite extended listening sessions, and the wow factor is noticeable absent....
> 
> ...



Pretty sure the C3g Pentode sockets are configured in strapped triode mode...but a good question for Glen.

Sounds good on family, Mordy...


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 29, 2018)

Back from the show.  Pharoah did much better than expected.  Took him a while to get up a full head of steam and he walked like an old man, for sure,  But once he got goin'...

  

But man o man...the guy below STOLE the show...a heck of a drummer "Jonathan Blake" had the crowd on their feet multiple times...he was really outstanding.  Will be buying some CD's featuring him...



Cheers, all!!!

   

.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> Fear not, I am around but not home and far away from my beloved GOTL - visiting my daughter in Canada. My sound system is YouTube via an old Chromebook, using Nakamichi noise reduction headphones.
> Somehow, this "system" does not invite extended listening sessions, and the wow factor is noticeable absent....
> 
> ...



You cannot get a adapter made with a Loctal base on it none are made.
Best get that woman in China make a dual adapter for these tubes to 6SN7 and use them there.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Does it get any better than this, peoples?

You GO, GOTL...


----------



## UntilThen

GOTL with the Mac on Audirvana 3.2.10. Chill Sunday.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> You cannot get a adapter made with a Loctal base on it none are made.
> Best get that woman in China make a dual adapter for these tubes to 6SN7 and use them there.


Hi Glenn,
I have adapters for both the EL11/12 to 6SN7 and EL3N to 6SN7, as well as a dual adapter for two octal tubes into one (6SN7 pinout). However, the EL11/EL3N adapters are made for the Feliks amps, and I am not sure if two of them on a dual adapter would work in the GOTL.
Will it work?


----------



## wazzupi

i know this might be a silly question to ask, but having any driver tube, 6x 6BX7GT power tubes my left channel is lacking bass compared to the right channel, I attempted many tests, switched the cable from right to left connected to my headphones, switched drivers used different headphones, tried both SE and XLR and i come to the same conclusion it must be something with the power tubes, I just wish I could find some reliable consistent power tubes  so my conclusion is obviously the power tubes are causing an imbalance or lack of bass from my left channel ?!?! well any feedback will be greatly appreciated thanks


----------



## wazzupi

PS oh hi everyone im still alive and enjoying music, my HD800 ZMF Auteurs Black Wood and of course my GLenn OTL amp/Metrum Accoustic Onyx when the tubes behave XD.


----------



## UntilThen

@wazzupi to determine if it’s the 6bx7 problem, did you swap the left and right tubes around and if you did, did the channel imbalance switch to the other channel?

Secondly try just one pair of 6as7g or the Svetlana 6h13c that Glenn supply. Did you get channel imbalance with this?


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> @wazzupi to determine if it’s the 6bx7 problem, did you swap the left and right tubes around and if you did, did the channel imbalance switch to the other channel?
> 
> Secondly try just one pair of 6as7g or the Svetlana 6h13c that Glenn supply. Did you get channel imbalance with this?


I have a few pairs of both and I was actually about to do that now for the 6bx7 swap I have them currently seperated and removed from the amp, I will try this later for now i wanted to try different power tubes.


----------



## wazzupi

@UntilThen it doesn't matter the placement im assuming back, middle or front power sockets ?


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> @UntilThen it doesn't matter the placement im assuming back, middle or front power sockets ?



No it doesn’t matter where you slot your pair of 6as7g. It can be in the front, middle or back row.

If using a single pair of 6as7g doesn’t give you channel imbalance then some of the 6bx7 in the sextet has problems.


----------



## wazzupi

so far so good :


UntilThen said:


> No it doesn’t matter where you slot your pair of 6as7g. It can be in the front, middle or back row.
> 
> If using a single pair of 6as7g doesn’t give you channel imbalance then some of the 6bx7 in the sextet has problems.


bass sounds balanced so far with the 6as7g but the bx7 has more bass


----------



## UntilThen

How many 6bx7 do you have? Use similar pairs in each row.


----------



## wazzupi

wazzupi said:


> so far so good :
> 
> bass sounds balanced so far with the 6as7g but the bx7 has more bass


well besides the annoying hum on the left channel atm.... it sounds good


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> How many 6bx7 do you have? Use similar pairs in each row.


umm i had 9 now 7  all GE not sure what you mean by similar besides brand.


----------



## UntilThen

Generally keep the pairs to same brands and physical constructions. The latter is more important because rebranding is quite common.


----------



## UntilThen

Now you may use a pair of 6as7g and a pair of 6080 for a more full on sound.


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Generally keep the pairs to same brands and physical constructions. The latter is more important because rebranding is quite common.


the 6g13c is perfect dead silent, the imbalance was present but sounds great when i just reversed the tubes and it sounds awesome now  I might just leave these in for a while to test etc.


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> well besides the annoying hum on the left channel atm.... it sounds good



Ok this is not good. You have to troubleshoot to find out what's causing the left channel hum. Make sure the RCA connector is pushed in fully behind GOTL. Swap the same pair of power tubes around and see if the hum switches to the right?


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Now you may use a pair of 6as7g and a pair of 6080 for a more full on sound.


I don't own 6080 any recommendations ? but I do have a pair of 6as7g but they hum annoyingly


----------



## wazzupi

UntilThen said:


> Ok this is not good. You have to troubleshoot to find out what's causing the left channel hum. Make sure the RCA connector is pushed in fully behind GOTL. Swap the same pair of power tubes around and see if the hum switches to the right?


i didn't but it was only apparent with the 6as7gs tubes and it's dead silent with the 6h13c i'll test it later


----------



## UntilThen

wazzupi said:


> i didn't but it was only apparent with the 6as7gs tubes and it's dead silent with the 6h13c i'll test it later



Alright if your 6h13c is dead silent and balanced, then it's very obvious you have problems with some of your 6bx7s and 6as7g. Just use the 6h13c for now and enjoy. Too much swapping in a short period of time does no favours for those sockets.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> I have adapters for both the EL11/12 to 6SN7 and EL3N to 6SN7, as well as a dual adapter for two octal tubes into one (6SN7 pinout). However, the EL11/EL3N adapters are made for the Feliks amps, and I am not sure if two of them on a dual adapter would work in the GOTL.
> Will it work?



This will not work and will likely harm the amp.

I know @whirlwind has tried this with dual EL3Ns as driver in his GOTL and it does work.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-Gol...639044?hash=item2ca65c7884:g:-W4AAOSw5IJWggQB

For EL11 or EL12, you will have to use this but not knowing how this is adapted, I cannot wholeheartedly recommend it. It's probably ok. What's his name who got this made, use 2 of these in Elise power sockets. So I believe this dual adapter is adapted similarly to the dual EL3N above.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-Gol...623692?hash=item2cb7a5490c:g:aC4AAOSwJ7RYW8eI

You will use the dual adapter in the 6sn7 driver slot. Probably could use it in the power slots too but there wouldn't be room to use 2 x dual adapters in any given row of the power slots. 

Just hypothetically assuming that you can use dual 2 EL11 as drivers in GOTL and 4 x EL12 spez as powers, I wouldn't know how that would sound. This is bothering on the frankenstein realm. Perhaps it might sound awesome but who knows...


----------



## UntilThen

I was the pioneer to use 6 x EL3Ns in Elise so I know very well how that sound. I'm also very familiar with how GOTL sound with ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7gt.

I will take the GOTL setup with those tubes, any time, any day, any song over the 6 x EL3Ns in Elise.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> I have adapters for both the EL11/12 to 6SN7 and EL3N to 6SN7, as well as a dual adapter for two octal tubes into one (6SN7 pinout). However, the EL11/EL3N adapters are made for the Feliks amps, and I am not sure if two of them on a dual adapter would work in the GOTL.
> Will it work?



None of the single pentode tube adapters for Feliks amps will work.
This will work
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-D...623692?hash=item2cb7a5490c:g:aC4AAOSwJ7RYW8eI
You can also use this on the outputs if you stagger them. Don't know how it will sound the impedance of these tubes might be to high.
Maybe with high impedance phones? But you will need 4 of these tubes and 2 adapters just to try.


----------



## 2359glenn

wazzupi said:


> i know this might be a silly question to ask, but having any driver tube, 6x 6BX7GT power tubes my left channel is lacking bass compared to the right channel, I attempted many tests, switched the cable from right to left connected to my headphones, switched drivers used different headphones, tried both SE and XLR and i come to the same conclusion it must be something with the power tubes, I just wish I could find some reliable consistent power tubes  so my conclusion is obviously the power tubes are causing an imbalance or lack of bass from my left channel ?!?! well any feedback will be greatly appreciated thanks



When buying 6BX7/6BL7s usually have to be bought as singles. You have to make sure they are NOS not used!!!!
In TVs 1/2 of the tube was used as the vertical oscillator and the other 1/2 the vertical output. that is why only one side is cooked.

True NOS is more important then matched tubes. Usually you can find six single GE 6BX7s that are NOS.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I was the pioneer to use 6 x EL3Ns in Elise so I know very well how that sound. I'm also very familiar with how GOTL sound with ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7gt.
> 
> I will take the GOTL setup with those tubes, any time, any day, any song over the 6 x EL3Ns in Elise.


You are also one of the first to send your E-amp all the way back for service. LOL


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> When buying 6BX7/6BL7s usually have to be bought as singles. You have to make sure they are NOS not used!!!!
> In TVs 1/2 of the tube was used as the vertical oscillator and the other 1/2 the vertical output. that is why only one side is cooked.
> 
> True NOS is more important then matched tubes. Usually you can find six single GE 6BX7s that are NOS.


Good point. However, many sellers sell used tubes as "NOS"/"NIB".


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> You are also one of the first to send your E-amp all the way back for service. LOL



That's FA reward to me. No charge.


----------



## gibosi

wazzupi said:


> i didn't but it was only apparent with the 6as7gs tubes and it's dead silent with the 6h13c i'll test it later



Sometimes the noise and hum is due to corrosion on the pins so I suggest that you clean them. I use fine sandpaper.
And sometimes the noise and hum is due to sitting unused for 60 years or so. If so, they might quiet down after burning in for several hours.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Good point. However, many sellers sell used tubes as "NOS"/"NIB".



There is a German seller that sold EL12 tubes as NOS at a high price. Angpsi is now selling off his tubes and had them measured and double checked. On a scale of 0-100, the "NOS" EL12 tubes measured 36 and 12 respectively. This may explain why UT had so much trouble with his EL12 tubes bought from the same seller.

Come to think about it, any recommendation for an inexpensive tube tester that will do the job?

On the other hand, I get the impression from my reading that test results may not indicate the true condition of a tube. In other words, a tube may measure well and still be unusable because of noise and hum. True?


----------



## mordy (Sep 30, 2018)

gibosi said:


> Sometimes the noise and hum is due to corrosion on the pins so I suggest that you clean them. I use fine sandpaper.
> And sometimes the noise and hum is due to sitting unused for 60 years or so. If so, they might quiet down after burning in for several hours.



Except for cleaning he pins and letting the tube burn in  I have not yet found a cure for persistent loud crackling and popping after giving the tube time to burn in. However, I have found that using inexpensive high temperature self sealing silicone tape around a tube can cut down or even eliminate hum.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> None of the single pentode tube adapters for Feliks amps will work.
> This will work
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-D...623692?hash=item2cb7a5490c:g:aC4AAOSwJ7RYW8eI
> You can also use this on the outputs if you stagger them. Don't know how it will sound the impedance of these tubes might be to high.
> Maybe with high impedance phones? But you will need 4 of these tubes and 2 adapters just to try.


It sounds too complicated and expensive to try. Since I am very happy with the tubes I have and use in the GOTL, I think I just have to let go of the idea of trying these tubes.


----------



## wkahwkah (Sep 30, 2018)

mordy said:


> Except for cleaning he pins and letting the tube burn in  I have not yet found a cure for persistent loud crackling and popping after giving the tube time to burn in. However, I have found that using inexpensive high temperature self sealing silicone tape around a tube can cut down or even eliminate hum.



Hi Mordy, do you have recommendation or link for the silicone tape? I have couple of tube that hums, especially 6BX7. I would like to try to see if it helps with hum. Thanks


----------



## mordy (Sep 30, 2018)

wkahwkah said:


> Hi Morday, do you have recommendation or link for the silicone tape? I have couple of tube that hums, especially 6BX7. I would like to try to see if it helps with hum. Thanks


Hi W,
You can try this:
ttps://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-150cm-Waterproof-Silicone-Rubber-Repair-Tape-Bonding-Rescue-Self-Fusing-Wire/232451464568?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649







They accepted my offer of CAD2. If you don't have the patience to wait for an order from China, you could find it in places that sell automotive supplies; it will cost perhaps $6 for a roll.

It looks like a roll of a little thicker electrical tape. Roll out a piece and fit it around the tube. Then mark off the circumference and cut it off about 1/2" smaller than what you measured. Peel off the see through backing and attached that side to the tube. The tape is stretchy, and after sticking it on the tube in one spot, pull on it until it is tight and overlaps the ends. Press together and it glues itself together.
I found that it actually helps for hum, either reducing the hum to a tolerable level, or eliminating it. YMMV.

This is a cheaper alternative to the expensive silicone rings that you can find from various sellers. This tape supposedly works better according to one source.

And if it doesn't work, you could always use this tape to fix a leak on a pipe or automotive hose....


----------



## attmci (Sep 30, 2018)

mordy said:


> There is a German seller that sold EL12 tubes as NOS at a high price. Angpsi is now selling off his tubes and had them measured and double checked. On a scale of 0-100, the "NOS" EL12 tubes measured 36 and 12 respectively. This may explain why UT had so much trouble with his EL12 tubes bought from the same seller.
> 
> Come to think about it, any recommendation for an inexpensive tube tester that will do the job?
> 
> On the other hand, I get the impression from my reading that test results may not indicate the true condition of a tube. In other words, a tube may measure well and still be unusable because of noise and hum. True?


Very true. If you have more than, say 6000 tubes, you'd better get a tube tester.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Very true. If you have more than, say 60 tubes, you'd better get a tube tester.



I guess that's me. 

Now I need some advice from those in the know. Are these testers any good?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Valve-T...338938?hash=item468653a33a:g:xhEAAOSwnhJbre77

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Valve-T...665286?hash=item4684ea6806:g:-4cAAOSwn6RblcMZ


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 30, 2018)

Today the sound from my setup is crisp, sparkling and very refreshing. I am in love with this tone. Yggdrasil pair very very well with the Glenn OTL and the HD800, what can I say. Details, soundstage, dynamics and transients are top notched.

Not forgetting Audirvana 3 plus


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> Very true. If you have more than, say 60 tubes, you'd better get a tube tester.



Tube testers don't test the tubes at true operating conditions might test good and still be bad. 
Try to get NOS tubes and take the risk try to buy from a reputable dealer instead of E-Pay


----------



## attmci (Sep 30, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I guess that's me.
> 
> Now I need some advice from those in the know. Are these testers any good?
> 
> ...


No Matt. That's Mordy. 

BTW, where is our friend, Stavros. He collects tube tester, and can give you better suggestions.

I have no idea of these two tube testers.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Tube testers don't test the tubes at true operating conditions might test good and still be bad.
> Try to get NOS tubes and take the risk try to buy from a reputable dealer instead of E-Pay


Tube tested bad are always bad.


----------



## gibosi (Sep 30, 2018)

attmci said:


> Very true. If you have more than, say 60 tubes, you'd better get a tube tester.



I've got something like 2000 tubes (including a bunch for the Little Dot), most from eBay, and while I think it might be nice to have a tube tester, I'm not sure that getting a good one, that is, one that has been rebuilt and tested, is worth the money. After all, I already have a superb tube tester:

If it works in the GOTL, it is good. And if it doesn't work in the GOTL, it is bad. End of story. lol


----------



## UntilThen

As I walk along the beach, I am wondering who gave me the idea to buy a tube tester !!!


----------



## attmci (Sep 30, 2018)

gibosi said:


> I've got something like 2000 tubes (including a bunch for the Little Dot), most from eBay, and while I think it might be nice to have a tube tester, I'm not sure that getting a good one, that is, one that has been rebuilt and tested, is worth the money. After all, I already have a superb tube tester:
> 
> If it works in the GOTL, it is good. And if it doesn't work in the GOTL, it is bad. End of story. lol


2000 tubes (BTW, I had to modify my previous post. LOL The "60" should be read as "6000")? How about this?

https://www.ebay.com/p/Hickok-539C-Tube-Tester-Fair-Working-100/1001736320?iid=192540450182


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> 2000 tubes (BTW, I had to modify my previous post. LOL The "60" should be read as "6000")? How about this?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/p/Hickok-539C-Tube-Tester-Fair-Working-100/1001736320?iid=192540450182



That model would work for most of my tubes. However, $1800 isn't cheap. And even though the seller claims it works, I would still want to have it checked by a technician, so that would be an added cost. But I also have something like 50 European 4-volt rectifiers with four different bases. Perhaps there is a way to test these with the Hickok using adapters? I certainly don't know. So I might need two testers? Or perhaps one of the better European testers can test all my tubes? Regardless, I think I will wait until I win the lottery. lol


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> That model would work for most of my tubes. However, $1800 isn't cheap. And even though the seller claims it works, I would still want to have it checked by a technician, so that would be an added cost. But I also have something like 50 European 4-volt rectifiers with four different bases. Perhaps there is a way to test these with the Hickok using adapters? I certainly don't know. So I might need two testers? Or perhaps one of the better European testers can test all my tubes? Regardless, I think I will wait until I win the lottery. lol



http://tone-lizard.com/category/tube-testers/

There  is a summary of various tube testers somewhere on this site.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> None of the single pentode tube adapters for Feliks amps will work.
> This will work
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-D...623692?hash=item2cb7a5490c:g:aC4AAOSwJ7RYW8eI
> You can also use this on the outputs if you stagger them. Don't know how it will sound the impedance of these tubes might be to high.
> Maybe with high impedance phones? But you will need 4 of these tubes and 2 adapters just to try.



I think I will try this since I have all the tubes sitting here. I will need 1 dual adapter for the driver and 2 dual adapters for the powers.

I am not sure whether to run EL12 or EL12spez. If the latter than I need the adapters with the cable for the top anode.


----------



## UntilThen

I will tell Mrs Xuling to orientate the adapters so that it’s streamlined for the GOTL.


----------



## rnros

To anyone with a new interest in tube testers, this a good source for information, both overview and tester-specific.
There are also some testers for sale, but more importantly, information that can help in making a purchase decision anywhere.
Starts with a general introduction, but scroll down to see the table of contents:

http://www.jacmusic.com/Tube-testers/index.html


----------



## UntilThen

C3g is back in action with 6 x 6bx7gt. I have quarantined it for a while because it's not as quiet as my other favourite drivers. However it is now dead silent and has the slam and punch to make any music exciting and dynamic. Driving the LCD-2f here to perfection.

@wazzupi this is more balanced than a tight rope walker.


----------



## UntilThen

^^ as good and as dynamic as the above combo sounds, the idea of running EL11 and EL12 tubes in GOTL has set in..... but I won't have any frankenstein pile up.... so I wrote to xulingmrs and told her that the adapters must face a certain direction otherwise it's bad karma.

So this is how these dual adapters will sit in GOTL.

This is the adapter.
 

This is how the 2 x EL11 drivers will face.
 

and this is how the 4 x EL12 power tubes will sit.


----------



## 2359glenn

If you move them back probably can put another adapter in the front output sockets letting you use 8 tubes.
Craziness


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> If you move them back probably can put another adapter in the front output sockets letting you use 8 tubes.
> Craziness



Ummm you read my mind. I like this craziness. I have to run 8 x EL12 / EL12 spez. It should all be within the Lundahl transformer limit right? I think the EL12 is only 1.2a. and EL11 is only 0.9. Total is only 11.4.  

I'm just assembling my EL tubes for a photoshoot. I have so many all NOS NIB. This is crazy.


----------



## UntilThen

Well not that many. 

4 x EL12 spez
2 x EL12
2 x EL12n

6 x EL11


----------



## felix3650

Wow all those tubes...it will look like those Russian nuclear plants of old lol
Keep the pics coming UT


----------



## 2359glenn

Cool who knows it might sound good.


----------



## UntilThen

Will run 4 x EL12 as powers first. That's already massive. Don't know what 8 would be like.


----------



## wazzupi

Lol let us know @UntilThen


----------



## UntilThen

12th Dec 2017 was the day I got GOTL and the first set of tubes used were these. GOTL basically sounds wet and powerful. That's right wet. In the last 2 days, I've been trailing Sonarworks Reference 4 for headphones. There's a switch to dial in dryness or wetness. Goes without saying I prefer wetness and this is one of GOTL's attributes. A beguiling moist tone that is dynamic, rich and powerful with C3g and 6 x 6bx7gt.


----------



## UntilThen

Communicated with xulingmrs through pictures .... I think she gets what I want.  China is on holidays now so it won't be until 10th Oct before they can start producing that for me.

The EL12 and EL12 spez adapters will be at 45 degrees angle but can be rotated slightly by loosening the centre screw. EL11 and EL12 use the same adapters.

Then @felix3650 it will be nuclear meltdown.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> Communicated with xulingmrs through pictures .... I think she gets what I want.  China is on holidays now so it won't be until 10th Oct before they can start producing that for me.
> 
> The EL12 and EL12 spez adapters will be at 45 degrees angle but can be rotated slightly by loosening the centre screw. EL11 and EL12 use the same adapters.
> 
> Then @felix3650 it will be nuclear meltdown.


Please don't melt that part of the globe till I come for a visit


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Communicated with xulingmrs through pictures .... I think she gets what I want.  China is on holidays now so it won't be until 10th Oct before they can start producing that for me.
> 
> The EL12 and EL12 spez adapters will be at 45 degrees angle but can be rotated slightly by loosening the centre screw. EL11 and EL12 use the same adapters.
> 
> Then @felix3650 it will be nuclear meltdown.



S0 you are going to use 8 of them for outputs. Maybe will work with 8 will get there internal impedance down. These tubes were meant to run at over 400 volts.
Not so high in your amp.  
How did they sound in FA amps?  Different circuit there just a cathode follower with no gain most anything will work to some degree.
Let us know how the sound is.


----------



## UntilThen

I'll run with 4 first then 8. No clue how it's going to sound but there's only one way to find out and that's to try it. This way I get to try EL12 and EL12spez separately and together.

On Elise, I use 2 x EL12n as drivers and 2 x EL12 as power tubes. It's a powerful sound, tons of clarity and dynamics.


----------



## 2359glenn

Maybe just 4 and 2 for the driver will work fine. You might as well try with different drivers too.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Oct 1, 2018)

gibosi said:


> If it works in the GOTL, it is good. And if it doesn't work in the GOTL, it is bad. End of story. lol



Yup.  This is how I test tubes too.  If a tube behaves in the OTL I feel there is a very high chance it will behave in any amp (that uses those tubes of course).

One thing that's often overlooked is the opportunity to buy tubes from other Head-fi'ers too.  Tubes I sold here in the past went very fast because I operated them in a real amp and could assert for fact that they were noise free.  People like having that assurance.  It's hard to get that kind of assurance from a bulk seller who doesn't have the time or possibly the amp to check each tube for noise.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 1, 2018)

UT - good luck with the EL tubes.  Interesting that Glenn said they were designed to be run at 150 more volts to the plate that the GOTL (or the FA amps) supplied.  Maybe that is one reason they run so cool.

You said in an earlier message that you were going to sell the expensive set of bookshelf speakers you bought.  Did that happen?

I ran across a beautiful pair of NHT SB3 bookshelf speakers (black piano finish) at a tiny little second hand store, here, today.  Bought them for $100 USD, remembered much bragging on the NHT line.  They are unusual in that they are built as acoustic suspension (no port) and are thus inefficient (meaning they need lots of watts, to sound good).  Figured my monster Hafler @ 250 watts per was enough 

Just got through comparing them to my big DIY dual 10's / Dome Mid / Vifa XT-25 speakers...

The little NHT's (compared to my DIY speakers) sound really good!  Sound amazingly good and remarkably similar to my (also acoustic suspension) DIY 3-ways.

I slightly prefer my DIY's but will retain these NHT's in case I ever have to downsize my listening space.

At the same store was a pair of psb Alpha 1's for $20 USD for the pair...bought those too.  They were very VERY dirty, after spending an hour cleaning them up....hooked them up to a 20 watts per amp that also has a DIY sub that I made long ago and have not used in years...put that set around my "Hobby Table" where I plan to get back into the DIY electronic kit hobby that I have not messed with in a long while, as well...

The psb's sound really good in this nearfield environment, the sub shakes the table...won't have to wear my "subwoofer" backpack  



Oh, and am enjoying Seal:





His "Soul" album, bunch of covers of the great Soul hits, of the past.  He does a great job!



Cheers, peeps and happy listenin'...!!


----------



## UntilThen

Hi JV, glad you got yourself a NHT - Now Hear This  

You have to remind me that I do have a HiFi system and I have not heard it for a while.  So I sat and listen for 30 mins ..... and it was GOOD.  My Axis VoiceBox S is still around. Guess I will keep it. 

Then I move back to the study and warm up GOTL with Gec B36 and 6 x 6bx7gt. Glory this is good too. Head-fi is more intimate. You're in your own world with micro details swimming in their zillions around your head. It's a sensory delight. 

All this while, I ponder about the possibility of listening to EL11 / EL12 spez tubes again. This time on GOTL. If EL3N in OTL mode sounded a bit warm, EL11 is more neutral and cutting edge. It's a nice variation. EL12 is very powerful tube. It's a 18w power output pentode.

So Glenn, if I were to use 2 x EL12 in a dual adapter plugged into a single 6as7 socket, what mode am I running these EL12 tubes in? As pentode or triode?


----------



## UntilThen

Ever feel that your preferences changes according to how you feel physically? Like when you're not tip top, you would want a tone that is warmer, more enveloping, more soothing, more relaxing. Well that is how I feel tonight and the cure is to use a Mullard ECC31. Listening with LCD-2f.

These GE 6 x 6bx7gt were bought from a seller in Thailand and they sound so perfect. Glow perfect too.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Hi JV, glad you got yourself a NHT - Now Hear This
> 
> You have to remind me that I do have a HiFi system and I have not heard it for a while.  So I sat and listen for 30 mins ..... and it was GOOD.  My Axis VoiceBox S is still around. Guess I will keep it.
> 
> ...



They have to be wired as triode's to work.
 It was the same in your FA amp except it would run on single triodes.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> S0 you are going to use 8 of them for outputs. Maybe will work with 8 will get there internal impedance down. These tubes were meant to run at over 400 volts.
> Not so high in your amp.
> How did they sound in FA amps?  Different circuit there just a cathode follower with no gain most anything will work to some degree.
> Let us know how the sound is.



The EL12 comes in several voltages: 250, 325, 350 and 375 volt. The voltages higher than 250 are indicated on the tube.The EL12 Spezial I think was intended for film projectors and rated at 425V.
Don't know what these values mean in terms of running them in the GOTL.

When we tried the EL12 tubes in the FA amps (not 12N or 12Spez) they were very temperamental and there were a number of them that did not work.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn, EL12 se tube amp. Sounds good even on Youtube.


----------



## 2359glenn

I was going to build one of these amps. Then I was thinking would it be better to use EL34 more available.
The EL12 was the predecessor of the EL34.
Just wondering which one would sound better before _ build._


----------



## UntilThen

Go EL34. New production EL34s are readily available and cheap. I was going to get 8 of these for the Prima Luna but I never got around to it as I replace the PL with the Redgum solid state amp. Selling the Prima Luna was one my regret in my head-fi journey.


----------



## UntilThen

I have no doubt you will build a nice EL34 se amp.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 3, 2018)

Coming up to a year now and I am still getting total satisfactions from my tube amp. The best tube amp tone I've heard to date and JV for you, this is another shot of Tung Sol bgrp in action.

 

Listening to Angus and Julia Stone


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Go EL34. New production EL34s are readily available and cheap. I was going to get 8 of these for the Prima Luna but I never got around to it as I replace the PL with the Redgum solid state amp. Selling the Prima Luna was one my regret in my head-fi journey.




I was thinking NOS EL34 a little pricey but many available.


----------



## UntilThen

AH yes NOS EL34. Very tasty, lots available and expensive.

I reckon Glenn, you should make the EL34 amp for both stereo and headphone usage. You'll have people interested.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> AH yes NOS EL34. Very tasty, lots available and expensive.
> 
> I reckon Glenn, you should make the EL34 amp for both stereo and headphone usage. You'll have people interested.



Better to have the octal socket. probably could also use 6L6 5881 KT88 KT66 and so on.
I think the EL34 will sound the best a nice sounding tube.

Was going to make a amp for someone with 3 EL34s paralleled SE output 21 watts per Chanel but he backed out
due to cost.


----------



## leftside

Are these the Tung-Sol 12SN7GT that you guys like?
http://www.ebaystores.com/COLOMOR-V...tung-sol+12SN7GT+&submit=Search&_sid=18843948


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Are these the Tung-Sol 12SN7GT that you guys like?
> http://www.ebaystores.com/COLOMOR-V...tung-sol+12SN7GT+&submit=Search&_sid=18843948



Yes and they are NOS from UK.


----------



## UntilThen

JV are you still enjoying your NHT?

I am spinning Tangerine Dream now and listening to this monitor as well as it’s big brother next to it.

Speakers listening is a wholesome experience. This is soundstage.  Details lovers will like this monitor.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Yes and they are NOS from UK.



And a good price for TSBGRP


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> JV are you still enjoying your NHT?
> 
> I am spinning Tangerine Dream now and listening to this monitor as well as it’s big brother next to it.
> 
> Speakers listening is a wholesome experience. This is soundstage.  Details lovers will like this monitor.



Hello UT...

No the NHT's are on the floor not hooked up.  They are great but I like my DIY towers, a bit more.  Said I would keep the NHT's in case I ever have to downsize my Analog Den 

I rather love "Speaker Listen'in..."  myself.

I listened to a bunch T Dream yesterday...


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> And a good price for TSBGRP



That is a great price.  I paid the same for a well used (but still good) one.


----------



## leftside

Picked up a couple. Surprised those other B36 haven’t sold. I was tempted to get another, but I have enough.


----------



## UntilThen

Imagine buying a Tung Sol 6SN7gt bgrp. How much would that cost NOS?


leftside said:


> Picked up a couple. Surprised those other B36 haven’t sold. I was tempted to get another, but I have enough.



B36 are at $111 each. Mullard ECC33 are at $357 each. 

I just told myself 'no more tubes'.

I even told myself no to the Yamamoto HA-02 tube amp that was locally advertised.

I'm spinning vinyl today. Gorgeous sounding from the RP8.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Imagine buying a Tung Sol 6SN7gt bgrp. How much would that cost NOS?
> 
> 
> B36 are at $111 each. Mullard ECC33 are at $357 each.
> ...


Hi UT,
Missed this opportunity:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-1...812903?hash=item3d6e8e1f27:g:eh4AAOSw1ktbX04O
But with patience these deals come up. 
I managed to acquire a TS 6SN7GT BGRP that was humming badly. After bariatric surgery using a band of high temperature silicon tape it is almost completely silent now at max volume and no noticeable hum at any normal listening level.



I magnified the picture so that you can see the silicone band stretched around the tube. The only drawback is that the silicone tape seems to attract dust particles.


----------



## gibosi

What follows probably isn't of any interest to those with built-in HEXFRED.... 

For some time I have trying to find a configuration that best compliments the Lorenz C3g. And I have finally settled on Tung-Sol 6BX7 and Telefunken WE56. To my old ears, this is as good as it gets.


----------



## mordy (Oct 4, 2018)

gibosi said:


> What follows probably isn't of any interest to those with built-in HEXFRED....
> 
> For some time I have trying to find a configuration that best compliments the Lorenz C3g. And I have finally settled on Tung-Sol 6BX7 and Telefunken WE56. To my old ears, this is as good as it gets.


Right now I am also using the C3g with a mix of power tubes - I am thrilled with the sound. However, so far nobody has reported trying this recipe:
Siemens C3g, Syl FP 6BX7, GE 6BL7 and Mullard 6080. The amp runs quite warm with these tubes and I use a small fan to lower the temp to barely warm.


----------



## UntilThen

Nice one Mordy. It's a great tone indeed with lots of slam and weight. Imaging is still very good. Details are crystal. It's airier and weightier in the lower bass frequencies. I'm usually not keen on mix and match but since I'm going to run EL11 and EL12 tubes on GOTL, I might as well try what you're raving about. This just goes to show the 101 tones you can get out of this amp. 

Listening to some hardcore stuff - AC/DC Thunderstruck.... and it's great.


----------



## UntilThen

C3g, 2 x 6bx7, 2 x 6BL7 2 x Mullard 6080 is a bright and powerful tone. I don't find it sibilant or unpleasant though. 

Back in Elise land, Suuup ask me what tubes to use to brighten up a dark, gloomy music and I told him to use c3g and Mullard 6080.

Use this combo as you please. As always, to each their own. Other partnering gear has to be taken into consideration too.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> C3g, 2 x 6bx7, 2 x 6BL7 2 x Mullard 6080 is a bright and powerful tone. I don't find it sibilant or unpleasant though.
> 
> Back in Elise land, Suuup ask me what tubes to use to brighten up a dark, gloomy music and I told him to use c3g and Mullard 6080.
> 
> Use this combo as you please. As always, to each their own. Other partnering gear has to be taken into consideration too.


Hi UT,
Thanks for verifying my impressions. You nailed it - bright and powerful without a hint of sibilance.
Truth is that it sounds even better after a while - it is as if the tubes have to get used to each other. I also suspect that the GOTL needs to be on at least 1/2 hour or more before it comes up to full steam.
Listened for several hours last night - the midrange is spot on with a delicious warmth. With the T1s it felt like the musicians were in the room with me.......


----------



## mordy

How much do you think that this pristine 1942 TS 6SN7GT BGRP in original box will sell for?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-NOS-Tu...-Sol-6SN7-December-1942-Tungsol/113276992162?
hash=item1a5fd5baa2:g:8Q8AAOSwq2JboCvF&autorefresh=true





Is Dec 1942 one of the earliest ones?


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Was going to make a amp for someone with 3 EL34s paralleled SE output 21 watts per Chanel but he backed out
> due to cost.


Which would you prefer in this setup Glenn?  Triple paralleled EL34 or quad paralleled 6V6?


----------



## 2359glenn

$400
Sell it and get a 12SN7 BGRP


----------



## 2359glenn

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNGSOL-RO...m=142955829437&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Which would you prefer in this setup Glenn?  Triple paralleled EL34 or quad paralleled 6V6?



I think the EL34 would have best sound.
Or maybe the older EL12 different socket.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNGSOL-ROUND-PLATE-6SN7-GT-A10/142955829437?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=1&asc=20131231084308&meid=781e13d68a9c4d46b2c73868bfaf900f&pid=100010&rk=3&rkt=12&sd=113276992162&itm=142955829437&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109


  How do you interpret this description of the above tube?       
*****ONE TUNGSOL ROUND PLATE 6SN7 GT.THERE SI A HAIRLINE CRACK ON THE BASE BUT THE BASE IS TIGHT,.
*****TWICE TESTED;
*****1st) NO SHORTS  NO GAS AND VERY STRONG TRANSCONDUCTANCE.
*****2nd) LIVE AUDIO TESTED,NO HUM & NON-MICROPHONIC WITH MODIFIED DYNACO PAS II & TUBE OTL.EVEN THE READING IS A LITTLE BIT LOW BUT SOUNDS BEAUTIFUL.
HAVING,60/66
WHERE 50/50 IA MINIMUM WITH DAN NELSON CALIBRATED TV7 TUBE TESTER.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I think the EL34 would have best sound.
> Or maybe the older EL12 different socket.



Or maybe the 6JD5?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Or maybe the 6JD5?



Thinking about it with 650 volts on the plate


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I think the EL34 would have best sound.
> Or maybe the older EL12 different socket.



Haha, I thought you might say that.  I am drawn to the 6V6 for some reason.  I don't even know why and have no basis for the feeling.  I imagine both are fine tubes when the amp is designed right.


----------



## 2359glenn

The 6V6 is a good sounding tube. And if the amp can run on a 6V6 you can also use a 6K6 a true pentode.
About 12 years ago I tried using the 6V6 as a cathode follower for the output of my preamp they were way to noisy.
So I went to a 6BL7 that is better suited as a cathode follower with a transconductance of 7000.
That is why I have a bad taste for the 6V6 even though it might be great as a output tube.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> $400
> Sell it and get a 12SN7 BGRP


It went for $163.50.
I am thinking on making a TS 6SN7GT BGRP spotters guide, but the condition is that if you a snag a pair for $20 I get to keep one of the tubes lol.
The trick is to look for rebranded ones.


----------



## attmci (Oct 4, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNGSOL-ROUND-PLATE-6SN7-GT-A10/142955829437?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=1&asc=20131231084308&meid=781e13d68a9c4d46b2c73868bfaf900f&pid=100010&rk=3&rkt=12&sd=113276992162&itm=142955829437&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109


HAVING,60/66
WHERE 50/50 IA MINIMUM WITH DAN NELSON CALIBRATED TV7 TUBE TESTER.

Worth about $50.

How about this batch?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/9-6SN7GT-K...m=202454462932&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> HAVING,60/66
> WHERE 50/50 IA MINIMUM WITH DAN NELSON CALIBRATED TV7 TUBE TESTER.
> 
> Worth about $50.
> ...


Hi attmci,
Like my late father-in-law used to say:
I can't afford to save so much...


----------



## mordy

OK - here I will try to gather together a 6SN7GT *Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plate Spotters Guide*. Remember, if you pick up a pair for around $20, I get one...
Emerson rebranded (obviously boxes aren't original):




GE rebranded:




Hyvac rebranded:




I am pretty sure that there are ART rebranded TS 6SN7 BGRP as well, but I could not find a picture.
If you know of more rebranded ones, please let me know.
The good thing, or problem if you will, is that the black RF shield inside the tube glass that starts at the tube base but doesn't reach the top, is very distinctive and easy to spot.
Sometimes a seller lists a bunch of tubes which may include one of these tubes:




The top right one sold for $10 including shipping.
But don't despair. there seems to be lots of these around:




Only $749 for this pair from July 1942.


----------



## UntilThen

I reckon I have enough Tung Sol BGRP. 

Incidentally I am using a TS 12SL7GT bgrp with higher gain.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 5, 2018)

mordy said:


> I am pretty sure that there are ART rebranded TS 6SN7 BGRP as well, but I could not find a picture.
> If you know of more rebranded ones, please let me know.



I have an "Art" rebranded TS 12SN7 BGRP - only $13.00 shipped and it was 100% no good.  Never got a single minutes' listening enjoyment out of it.

One might be better off paying $50.00 for a properly operating example


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> I have an "Art" rebranded TS 12SN7 BGRP - only $13.00 shipped and it was 100% no good.  Never got a single minutes' listening enjoyment out of it.
> 
> One might be better off paying $50.00 for a properly operating example



Even though it was bought for cheap it’s always a sad day when a tube comes in and it’s not useable. I’ve been lucky with driver tubes not so much with the 6BX7 power tubes. 

If I may ask is the tube not outputting sound, crackling, hums?


----------



## Althalus

I made this one and it's not for sale.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I have an "Art" rebranded TS 12SN7 BGRP - only $13.00 shipped and it was 100% no good.  Never got a single minutes' listening enjoyment out of it.
> 
> One might be better off paying $50.00 for a properly operating example


I found a TS BGRP rebranded Arcturus 12SN7GT that I bought for around $29. This tube was not usable - made loud popping noises which ultimately ruined one driver on my T1 headphones.
Contacted the seller and asked if he had another one or maybe a 6SN7GT TS BGRP.
He did have a TS 6SN7GT BGRP which he sent me without charge. It had a lot of hum, but with silicone tape the hum went away.
To my luck the Beyerdynamic factory repair center was very cooperative and installed a used driver to replace the bad one at a fraction of the cost of putting in two new drivers. The whole thing, including shipping both ways, cost me $60.
So I have a story, learned to try new tubes with cheap sacrificial headphones, and had a harrowing experience of ruining expensive headphones.
Who said that tube rolling isn't exciting?


----------



## UntilThen

I have a pair of ART branded TS 6F8G black glass.


----------



## UntilThen

A back to back 'ear' test of the Tung Sol 6F8G and 12SL7GT black glass round plates. They sound the same. 

I would urge you to use socket savers if you're going to do much tube rolling. I have 7 of these gold nuggets.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> One might be better off paying $50.00 for a properly operating example



I agree. It's worth paying $50 for a TS BGRP example that Leftside linked. All you need is one good tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 5, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Even though it was bought for cheap it’s always a sad day when a tube comes in and it’s not useable. I’ve been lucky with driver tubes not so much with the 6BX7 power tubes.
> 
> If I may ask is the tube not outputting sound, crackling, hums?



Most of my tubes purchases have been fine, too.  But this one...it has tremendous crashes and explosions.  It _might_ be okay in both channels for a few seconds....then - lookout!  I tried hooking the heaters up to an external power supply for a few months....to see if it would settle down.
It did not.

I bought it before I had an amp that could use it, and did not try it for many months after the purchase, else, I would have returned it.

I have also come across some bad Sylvania 6SN7W's (that were sold as 'good' according to calibrated tube testers) but I did get my money back for those.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> A back to back 'ear' test of the Tung Sol 6F8G and 12SL7GT black glass round plates. They sound the same.
> 
> I would urge you to use socket savers if you're going to do much tube rolling. I have 7 of these gold nuggets.


Which socket savers do you have? From Mrs Ling Xu?
In the past I used cheap ones without much problems, but in the GOTL they act up and cause hum, so I need to get better ones.
I have a TS and ART 6F8G but they both have parallel plates. From what I read, they should sound very close to the round plates.
The Tung Sol was extremely noisy and microphonic in the beginning, part of it traceable to the cheap socket adapter (not the anode cap adapter). I left it on for a while but no change.
Figured I at least have one good TS ART 6F8G. However, a few days later I tried the TS again, and it became quiet. Go figure.....


----------



## UntilThen

These ones. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-...289479?hash=item2c7f005607:g:gsQAAOSwPcVVmj7t


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Most of my tubes purchases have been fine, too.  But this one...it has tremendous crashes and explosions.  It _might_ be okay in both channels for a few seconds....then - lookout!  I tried hooking the heaters up to an external power supply for a few months....to see if it would settle down.
> It did not.
> 
> I bought it before I had an amp that could use it, and did not try it for many months after the purchase, else, I would have returned it.
> ...



Too bad on the tube JV. Speaking on the Sylvanias.

I have a Sylvania black base 6SN7W that really starts off with some incredibly loud crackles then settles down. Luckily the Auteur has robust damping and hasn’t blown a side. I’m going to try cleaning the pins with an eraser and then wiping it down with alcohol. If that doesn’t alleviate the issue the possibly use a heating iron to touch all of the pins. 

It’s a great tube and would hate to throw it away. Same issue with a beautiful pair of Tung-Sol 6520s.


----------



## UntilThen

Sylvania 6sn7w if you get a good working tube, will keep you grinning from ear to ear. I have a chance to test the short black base against the tall metal base 6sn7w. There is quite a distinct difference. Whether that difference is attributed to the age of the tubes or are just characteristics of the tubes themselves. that is debatable. My metal base is NOS and I mean NOS ie brand new from Langrex. My pair of black base ones were purchased used for $100 for the pair from e-pay.

Black base short tube:-
. more full on sound, rounder, fuller at the mids, gorgeous bass weight and slam, high notes are not as pronounced but still very extended. 

Metal base tall tube:-
. leaner, tighter, more chiselled at all frequencies. The level of details is intoxicating. Bass slam is there but tighter and high frequencies are more extended and more sparkling.

Fabulous tubes. These make it to my premier list of driver tubes for GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow this combination of Sylvania 6sn7w short black base with 6 x GE 6bx7gt would be the reason to buy this Glenn OTL amp. Forget the sunrise, I know it's coming up but I just need one more song. This is a killer tone. If you buy no other tubes, just make sure you get a good working set of these tubes that is humphrey.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 5, 2018)

My short black base 6sn7w has a code of 'I 9'. According to this source, that should be Sept 1949. Is that correct @Oskari  ?

Tall metal base has 'L 4'.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=116611.0


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> My short black base 6sn7w has a code of 'I 9'. According to this source, that should be Sept 1949. Is that correct @Oskari  ?
> 
> Tall metal base has 'L 4'.
> 
> https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=116611.0



This is etched into the glass on top of the tube? I would not have thought the 7W was manufactured that late. I have a bunch of these short W7's and they were all manufactured in 1945.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> This is etched into the glass on top of the tube? I would not have thought the 7W was manufactured that late. I have a bunch of these short W7's and they were all manufactured in 1945.



The pair of short black base has the 'I 9' printed on the black base. The metal base has 'L 4' etched on the top of the chrome glass.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh no... the black base has additionally 'C 5' etched on top of the glass.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Oh no... the black base has additionally 'C 5' etched on top of the glass.



Etching was applied at the time of manufacture, so I always treat it as the true date of manufacture. Dates on the base are likely packaging dates.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Etching was applied at the time of manufacture, so I always treat it as the true date of manufacture. Dates on the base are likely packaging dates.



On closer examination, the 'I 9' is actually 'I 5'. The wording is a bit blurred. So you are right they are 1945 tubes. That will put the metal base at 1944.


----------



## UntilThen

@Gkar  bought a pair of these for his GOTL. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-NEW-Sy...vip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l44720

You no idea how good these sound on GOTL ... with 6 x 6bx7gt.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I have a pair of ART branded TS 6F8G black glass.


Seems all bad tubes had been sent to "Art" for display. LOL


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Seems all bad tubes had been sent to "Art" for display. LOL



These tubes are so perfect they are used by Simon and Art Garfunkel to sing 'Sound of silence'. 

Incidentally they were sounded out to me by Stravros and they came from an Australian seller which means I don't have to pay expensive shipping. These are with black glass round plates. Tung Sol basically.


----------



## UntilThen

And the encore performance. Simon and Art like vintage tubes, just gets better with age.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> This is etched into the glass on top of the tube? I would not have thought the 7W was manufactured that late. I have a bunch of these short W7's and they were all manufactured in 1945.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> My short black base 6sn7w has a code of 'I 9'. According to this source, that should be Sept 1949. Is that correct @Oskari  ?
> 
> Tall metal base has 'L 4'.
> 
> https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=116611.0


It seems that I'm late to the game…


UntilThen said:


> On closer examination, the 'I 9' is actually 'I 5'. The wording is a bit blurred. So you are right they are 1945 tubes. That will put the metal base at 1944.


… but you got your answer.


----------



## UntilThen

You're just in time O. 

I am glad I kept the pair of 6sn7w. For some reason, they are very quiet tubes now. Really lovely sweet tone. I'll be enjoying it for a while.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Seems all bad tubes had been sent to "Art" for display. LOL


Have to make a correction - the TS 6F8G I have is not labeled ART but Radiocoin.
The TS 12SN7GT labeled Arcturus was a dud.

Re the noisy popping explosive sounds from certain tubes - does it help to heat up the pins with a soldering iron??


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Have to make a correction - the TS 6F8G I have is not labeled ART but Radiocoin.
> The TS 12SN7GT labeled Arcturus was a dud.
> 
> Re the noisy popping explosive sounds from certain tubes - does it help to heat up the pins with a soldering iron??



Some times that works.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Some times that works.


Could you describe how to do it? How long do you apply the heat? Low or high wattage soldering iron?


----------



## mordy

From my old LD MKIII days there was a tube that sounded very good but it seems to me with a unique 9pin pinout - the 5687 dual triode. Designed for 12/6V, 0.45A and a multiplication factor of 18 it was supposed to be a very high quality tube.
Does anybody have experience with it?


----------



## gibosi (Oct 6, 2018)

Yes, a number of us have run the 5687 in the Glenn. And as you might expect, it sounds great. 

And the E182CC has the same pinout and it too sounds great.


----------



## gibosi

And on the topic of running 9-pin miniature double triodes, I have been thinking of digging through my collection of 2C51/5670/396A. It's been a long time since I have rolled any of these....


----------



## UntilThen

Sunday afternoon chilling with some of my 6SN7s that don't normally get a work out. 

Listening to a Ken Rad 6SN7gt now.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Yes, a number of us have run the 5687 in the Glenn. And as you might expect, it sounds great.
> Can you comment on how it sounds in comparison to the ECC804 and 6N23P?
> I have eight of these 5687 tubes and remember that the bass was very good when I tried them in the LD MKIII.


----------



## gibosi

Unfortunately, it's been a couple years since I last rolled these tubes and I no longer remember in detail their sound. And further, in my experience, drivers are very dependent on the other tubes in the amp. So in order to provide a somewhat useful answer to your question, I should probably compare 5687, ECC804 and 6N23P installed in an amp with a plug-in HEXFRED and GE 6BX7.... Sorry... but there are just not enough hours in a day... lol

But you have eight 5687! And you have a 6N23P! So it seems to me that you have everything you need to answer this question for yourself. 

Cheers


----------



## 2359glenn

I wanted to go to RMAF but couldn't but one of my amps made it there.
Zach brought a OTL there to run his new headphones Verite and Aeolus


----------



## UntilThen

Nice, I hope Zach will post some pictures here. Meanwhile I have a Jotunheim sitting next to GOTL fed from Yggy with balanced xlr.

xulingmrs also wrote and said they have finished making the dual EL12 and EL12 spez to 6sn7 adapters for me. I should be able to order tomorrow.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I wanted to go to RMAF but couldn't but one of my amps made it there.
> Zach brought a OTL there to run his new headphones Verite and Aeolus



I read this on the RMAF thread....congrats....I bet the Zach's new cans sound great on this OTL
A few new changes in this OTL I would assume.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Nice, I hope Zach will post some pictures here. Meanwhile I have a Jotunheim sitting next to GOTL fed from Yggy with balanced xlr.
> 
> xulingmrs also wrote and said they have finished making the dual EL12 and EL12 spez to 6sn7 adapters for me. I should be able to order tomorrow.



New toy the Jotunheim?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Nice, I hope Zach will post some pictures here. Meanwhile I have a Jotunheim sitting next to GOTL fed from Yggy with balanced xlr.
> 
> xulingmrs also wrote and said they have finished making the dual EL12 and EL12 spez to 6sn7 adapters for me. I should be able to order tomorrow.



Waiting to see how they sound.


----------



## m17xr2b

2359glenn said:


> I wanted to go to RMAF but couldn't but one of my amps made it there.
> Zach brought a OTL there to run his new headphones Verite and Aeolus


Most impressive that your amp can run two 6336 tubes. 10 amps is really something. What's the output impedance with those? Would it go even lower with the 6528A?


----------



## 2359glenn

m17xr2b said:


> Most impressive that your amp can run two 6336 tubes. 10 amps is really something. What's the output impedance with those? Would it go even lower with the 6528A?



Never tried it with 6528As but It probably would be under 32 ohms.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> New toy the Jotunheim?



Yup. Someone sold it at a reasonable price. He had a EC Aficionado setup when I went there. I should have ask for a listen but I missed the opportunity.


----------



## UntilThen

m17xr2b said:


> Most impressive that your amp can run two 6336 tubes. 10 amps is really something. What's the output impedance with those? Would it go even lower with the 6528A?



It's a most impressive amp. Tell me what you think if you get a chance to listen to it. I'm much more in favour of 6 x 6bx7gt. Tight, dynamic tone with weight and punch.


----------



## mordy

Rossliew said:


> New toy the Jotunheim?


One of my grandsons has the Jutenheim with the latest USB upgrade (with a LCD3). Some time ago I listened to it at my home on my HD650 and T1, fed by USB from a PC, but I was not impressed.


----------



## mordy

Decided to look closer to my unusable Arcturus (nee Tung Sol) 12SN7GT tube. When you plug it in, there are loud popping noises and explosive sounds.
I discovered that one of the little clamps (against vibrations?) above the top mica that clamps onto two rods was missing. A little shaking of the tube produced the missing piece.







Do you think that it is dangerous to use this tube with this loose piece that can wander around the tube?
I had in mind to use a shock treatment to try to cure the popping noises....


----------



## mordy

This post is guaranteed to generate a chuckle......
How can I try out my Tung Sol BGRP (Arcturus 12SN7GT) with the little metal clip floating around in the tube?
Tried a small rare earth neodymium magnet to hold the clip to the top of the glass in the tube; yes - the clip is magnetic.



Plugged in the tube after shock treatment (more about that later), and it sound fabulous. Quiet as a mouse, maybe the quietest tube I tried so far.
Put a piece of tape over the magnet so that I should not move it accidentally. Although the tube glow is normal, seen from above the tape exaggerates the fires burning.



Am I crazy? But it does sound great......


----------



## 2359glenn

A little crazy but it worked now you have a great tube.


----------



## attmci

Do you have tubes (i.e. 6SN7A/^SN7W) with loose/broken base?

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...oose-bases-repair-with-aluminum-tape.1258667/

Ken?


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Do you have tubes (i.e. 6SN7A/^SN7W) with loose/broken base?
> 
> https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...oose-bases-repair-with-aluminum-tape.1258667/
> 
> Ken?



I have been using clear nail polish for several years and it works fine. And I like the fact that nail polish remover can be used to dissolve the glue In the event that I would ever need to remove the base.

I got this Cossor 53KU cheap because the glue had completely failed. Only the wires kept the base and tube from separating. A couple rubber bands held everything tight until the nail polish dried. I usually wait at least 24 hours.


----------



## mordy (Oct 7, 2018)

Now is the time to reveal the other part of the equation - how do you change a tube that is unusable because of constant loud pops, crackles and "explosions' into a quiet tube?
As mentioned before, somebody suggested using a soldering iron on the tube pins. Glenn said that it works sometimes, but I could not find any information on how to do it practically - how much heat and how long to apply it.
To make a long story short, I tried applying heat to the tube pins for a few seconds, 3 sec, then 7 sec, but no change.
I have an old 50W soldering iron. Using a thin tip, I took a chance, warmed it up, applied heat to each tube pin for 30 seconds. Nothing to lose; the tube is shot anyhow.
And guess what? IT WORKED!!!
So now I have a Sylvania 6SN7W short bottle from 1945 and and old 40's Arcturus Tung Sol 12SN7GT BGRP that work flawlessly!
Did not want to publish this until somebody else could verify that it works. Contacted JV, who took his unusable ART (Tung Sol) 12SN7GT BGRP and used a 35W soldering iron to heat up the pins. 4 minutes to a renewed lease on life - it worked on a tube that never worked before!
I am cautiously mentioning this method of fixing a totally noisy tube because I do not know how it will work in the long run, but so far it looks promising.
Attmci,
I have another suggestion for fixing lose bases, but it is going to cost money:




This 5g tube has a brush in the cap. Just dip the brush in the glue and dab on around the base a little bit here and there, sticking the brush hairs inside the base. Push it together and hold it for one minute. Then let it dry overnight.
Have used this a number of times with excellent results. And the price?
$3 in Shoprite, a supermarket chain.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> I have been using clear nail polish for several years and it works fine. And I like the fact that nail polish remover can be used to dissolve the glue In the event that I would ever need to remove the base.
> 
> I got this Cossor 53KU cheap because the glue had completely failed. Only the wires kept the base and tube from separating. A couple rubber bands held everything tight until the nail polish dried. I usually wait at least 24 hours.



Cool. It's a good idea to let it dry for at least 24 hrs. The nail polish has tons of flammable organics in it.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Now is the time to reveal the other part of the equation - how do you change a tube that is unusable because of constant loud pops, crackles and "explosions' into a quiet tube?
> As mentioned before, somebody suggested using a soldering iron on the tube pins. Glenn said that it works sometimes, but I could not find any information on how to do it practically - how much heat and how long to apply it.
> To make a long story short, I tried applying heat to the tube pins for a few seconds, 3 sec, then 7 sec, but no change.
> I have an old 50W soldering iron. Using a thin tip, I took a chance, warmed it up, applied heat to each tube pin for 30 seconds. Nothing to lose; the tube is shot anyhow.
> ...



"But then a seller in England told me that these "cement" type glues that are heat resistant will eventually result in braking the glass!"


----------



## mordy (Oct 7, 2018)

attmci said:


> "But then a seller in England told me that these "cement" type glues that are heat resistant will eventually result in braking the glass!"



I am not aware that the Elmer's Crazy Glue Color Change is advertised as heat resistant. I just brush on a very small amount, hold the parts together for a minute, and then let it dry.
Have not had any problems.

Or, are you referring to the stretchy self sealing silicone tape?


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> I am not aware that the Elmer's Crazy Glue Color Change is advertised as heat resistant. I just brush on a very small amount, hold the parts together for a minute, and then let it dry.
> Have not had any problems.
> 
> Or, are you referring to the stretchy self sealing silicone tape?



The original glue can be dissolved in acetone (not available for most of us) or nail polish to make it "fresh" again.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> The original glue can be dissolved in acetone (not available for most of us) or nail polish to make it "fresh" again.


I have bought Acetone in Walmart for less $5/quart


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Now is the time to reveal the other part of the equation - how do you change a tube that is unusable because of constant loud pops, crackles and "explosions' into a quiet tube?
> As mentioned before, somebody suggested using a soldering iron on the tube pins. Glenn said that it works sometimes, but I could not find any information on how to do it practically - how much heat and how long to apply it.
> To make a long story short, I tried applying heat to the tube pins for a few seconds, 3 sec, then 7 sec, but no change.
> I have an old 50W soldering iron. Using a thin tip, I took a chance, warmed it up, applied heat to each tube pin for 30 seconds. Nothing to lose; the tube is shot anyhow.
> ...



Woohoo! Sounds like you got brought those dead tubes back from the dead and now are breathing music into those headphones. Congrats!

I did the same for my Sylvania 6sn7w, Foton 6n8s, and revived 3 out of 4 6BX7s. All in all I'm happy with the results. I'm a tad scare of doing the same to one pair of c3gs. They're a bit microphonic but are harder to find than other tubes. Well, no risk no reward.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> I have bought Acetone in Walmart for less $5/quart


That's a lot. Keep it safe.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Woohoo! Sounds like you got brought those dead tubes back from the dead and now are breathing music into those headphones. Congrats!
> 
> I did the same for my Sylvania 6sn7w, Foton 6n8s, and revived 3 out of 4 6BX7s. All in all I'm happy with the results. I'm a tad scare of doing the same to one pair of c3gs. They're a bit microphonic but are harder to find than other tubes. Well, no risk no reward.



Did you try the silicone tape for microphonics on the C3g tubes?
After a couple of hours there is an occasional mild crackle or mild pop from my Sylvania 6SN7W. Perhaps give it another treatment?
It also seems to help to tilt the tube a little.
Could you describe the method you use to revive the tubes?


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> That's a lot. Keep it safe.


On the top shelf in my garage.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Woohoo! Sounds like you got brought those dead tubes back from the dead and now are breathing music into those headphones. Congrats!
> 
> I did the same for my Sylvania 6sn7w, Foton 6n8s, and revived 3 out of 4 6BX7s. All in all I'm happy with the results. I'm a tad scare of doing the same to one pair of c3gs. They're a bit microphonic but are harder to find than other tubes. Well, no risk no reward.


Hi Phantaminum,
Did you try a second time with the 6BX7 that you could not revive?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> One of my grandsons has the Jutenheim with the latest USB upgrade (with a LCD3). Some time ago I listened to it at my home on my HD650 and T1, fed by USB from a PC, but I was not impressed.



I smile when I read your comment. I also smile when I read this comment from someone on the CanJam @ RMAF 2018 impressions thread... 
'_By the way if you ever thought the HD 6XX lacked clarity and detail listen to them through the Jotunheim. I was really impressed with that amp_.'

That just go to show that there will be differing opinions where gear is concerned. Me? I'll just take my time and find out for myself in the comfort of my own home.


----------



## mordy (Oct 8, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I smile when I read your comment. I also smile when I read this comment from someone on the CanJam @ RMAF 2018 impressions thread...
> '_By the way if you ever thought the HD 6XX lacked clarity and detail listen to them through the Jotunheim. I was really impressed with that amp_.'
> 
> That just go to show that there will be differing opinions where gear is concerned. Me? I'll just take my time and find out for myself in the comfort of my own home.


Hi UT,
I trust your judgement and usually my hearing impressions are similar to yours.I am curious what your longer term impression will be of the Jutenheim.
When I listened to it I did not use any ancillary equipment-just straight USB from my PC.
As I remember there was no problem with clarity and detail, the bass was very good, but the sound was thin and not fleshed out compared to my FA Euforia.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Did you try the silicone tape for microphonics on the C3g tubes?
> After a couple of hours there is an occasional mild crackle or mild pop from my Sylvania 6SN7W. Perhaps give it another treatment?
> It also seems to help to tilt the tube a little.
> Could you describe the method you use to revive the tubes?



Thanks for the suggestion and I had totally forgotten about it. Going to order some through Amazon and report back once I've applied it.

Here's the process that I took to fix some of the crackling/hum that I was experiencing. 
1. Took an eraser and went through all of the pins. The amount of dirt and grime build up was pretty surprising. 
2. Grabbed some 99% alcohol and wiped all of the pins down after and to clean any eraser debris left.
3. I used an old 15/30w Radio Shack pencil soldering iron and set it around 20-30 seconds on each pin. 
4. Redid step 3 for the 6BX7s twice. 

The Sylvania hasn't experienced any loud crackling noise since I've done this. I can only hear a few *ting* noises after 10 minutes then it settles down. The Foton doesn't hum or has random static noises after I put it through a good 4 hour session yesterday. The 6BX7s crackle went away but the hum has been improved. Had to throw one away since the volume level was still too low and it wouldn't stop humming.

Hope this helps Mordy!


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Thanks for the suggestion and I had totally forgotten about it. Going to order some through Amazon and report back once I've applied it.
> 
> Here's the process that I took to fix some of the crackling/hum that I was experiencing.
> 1. Took an eraser and went through all of the pins. The amount of dirt and grime build up was pretty surprising.
> ...


Thanks- very helpful.
The silicon tape will help for hum.
I am going to try heat again on the Sylvania 6SN7W because it occasionally crackles and pops but not as loud as before and with much longer intervals.
I am a little paranoid about loud pops ever since I blew a driver in my T1.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I used Mordy's and Phantanium's  "heat delivered to each pin" method of tube restoration on my "completely unusable from day one" ART TS12SN7 BGRP and to my great surprise, it worked!

I used a 35watt soldering iron, held the hot tip to each pin for 30 seconds.

Tried the tube, and Was astonished to find that it works, both channels - no crashes/explosions or lightning storms (which was 95% of alI you heard, before).

There is a "white noise" in both channels when first turned on. "White noise" unlike anything I have heard from a tube previously. But the white noise slowly diminishes over about 20 mins and the tube sounds like my good working TS 12SN7 BGRP. Listened last night for an hour (after allowing the white noise to dissipate) and again today. No more crashes/explosions from this tube.

Amazing!

Thanks, Mordy and Phantanium!


----------



## 2359glenn

You need a Fairley hot iron to do this at least 30 watts some of the tubes were soldered with hard solder. Actually dipped in a solder pot.
You can also add some solder if you can get the pin to the melting point.

Great you got it fixed


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> You need a Fairley hot iron to do this at least 30 watts some of the tubes were soldered with hard solder. Actually dipped in a solder pot.
> You can also add some solder if you can get the pin to the melting point.
> 
> Great you got it fixed


Hi Glenn,
Would you venture any explanation why this method may work?


----------



## 2359glenn

Some times when they dipped the tube in the solder pot not that much solder went into the pin.
So sometimes it is better to add a little solder to the bottom of the pin.


----------



## mordy (Oct 8, 2018)

The now revived Sylvania 6SN7W (BTW just slightly older than me) was working OK yesterday with an occasional mild crackle and a single little pop. Decided to give it another heat treatment and made a morning appointment.

After the 4 minute treatment session the tube initially cleared it's throat with a soft crackle, but after that, for more than 4 hours, it has been quiet.

Just did a noise test: Without any music playing turned the volume to max - almost total silence. At full tilt just the slightest hint of hum. (Maybe due to wrapping most of the the tube in silicone tape as well.)

Hopefully I will be able to give it a clean bill of health after another few hours.
Regards from Mordy's Tube Rejuvenation Center.


----------



## Phantaminum

I was going through a few of our moving boxes and finally found my Aeon Open Flow and the Phillips FDD20 tube + adapter box. Decided to give them a go in the GOTL with the sixtuplet 6BX7s but the sub and mid bass were too disjointed. It was also picking up a good bit of hiss that you could hear in the background.

Glenn did mention that the 6336 would be the best match for the AFOs. Left the FDD20 in and swapped out the output tubes for the 6336. 

*First thing that struck me:* Quiet. A black background without any hissing or internal tube noises. 

*Second:* How the amp can push the headphones. The GOTL can drive these headphones to pretty loud levels. They're 14ohms so I was expecting having to crank the knob all the way around. Instead it sat between one - two o'clock with room to spare. 

*Last:* It sounds fantastic! The GOTL gives much need layering compared to the Gilmore Lite MK2 and expands the headphone around while widening it more.

So for anyone who's wondering if they can push planars like the AFO or HEX V2s they definitely can!


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> I was going through a few of our moving boxes and finally found my Aeon Open Flow and the Phillips FDD20 tube + adapter box. Decided to give them a go in the GOTL with the sixtuplet 6BX7s but the sub and mid bass were too disjointed. It was also picking up a good bit of hiss that you could hear in the background.
> 
> Glenn did mention that the 6336 would be the best match for the AFOs. Left the FDD20 in and swapped out the output tubes for the 6336.
> 
> ...



The 6336 has lower gain then the 6BX7 so it is not amplifying the noise from the FDD20 as much.
This amp has great drive into low impedance with the 6336.
It looked like Zach was using the 6336 at the RMAF the 6BX7 might sound better driving the Auteur though. but into low impedance the 6336 can't be beat.
He could have been using the 6336 because it will drive anything plugged into the amp. 
You can also try four 6AS7s this has good drive too.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 8, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> I was going through a few of our moving boxes and finally found my Aeon Open Flow and the Phillips FDD20 tube + adapter box. Decided to give them a go in the GOTL with the sixtuplet 6BX7s but the sub and mid bass were too disjointed. It was also picking up a good bit of hiss that you could hear in the background.
> 
> Glenn did mention that the 6336 would be the best match for the AFOs. Left the FDD20 in and swapped out the output tubes for the 6336.
> 
> ...



I love the FDD20...!!   You have inspired me to give mine another whirl...but with a set of 6BX7's...

Hey Joe...the Jimi Hendrix song...been covered by a lot of bands.  Had on one of my "All Day" playlists today, and here came Hey Joe, played somewhere between Rock and Jazz by a female Japanese organ player named Junko Onishi....it's off her album "Fragile" and she rock/jazzes some other interesting rock classics too


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> One of my grandsons has the Jutenheim with the latest USB upgrade (with a LCD3). Some time ago I listened to it at my home on my HD650 and T1, fed by USB from a PC, but I was not impressed.



Have you tried the LCD-3 on your new toy?


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> I love the FDD20...!!   You have inspired me to give mine another whirl...but with a set of 6BX7's...
> 
> Hey Joe...the Jimi Hendrix song...been covered by a lot of bands.  Had on one of my "All Day" playlists today, and here came Hey Joe, played somewhere between Rock and Jazz by a female Japanese organ player named Junko Onishi....it's off her album "Fragile" and she rock/jazzes some other interesting rock classics too



Searched for her on Tidal and I'm digging it! Switched over to the Auteurs to give the instruments more room to play in but her piano work is beautiful.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Have you tried the LCD-3 on your new toy?[/QUOTE
> Not yet - he is away in college. But when I listened to the LCD3 I thought it had the best  bass that I have heard.


----------



## attmci (Oct 8, 2018)

A very nice headphone. However, this bothers me all the time:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how...-returned-to-audeze-for-servicing-rma.771760/

could I be paranoid?


----------



## gibosi (Oct 8, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> Would you venture any explanation why this method may work?



I will take a stab at this. First, keep in mind that these symptoms may be due to problems inside the glass bottle. And if so, this method will be of no use.

Further, this method works only on octals and older tubes with hollow pins. It will not work on loctals and 9-pin all glass miniatures. And if fact, if you do try this on a loctal or glass miniature,  there is a real possibility that pins will get too hot and cause the glass to crack.

If you stop and think about how tubes with hollow pins are constructed, you will recall that there are very thin wire leads which pass through the glass after evacuation and sealing. When the tube is mounted on a base, these leads are threaded down into the appropriate hollow pins and soldered into place. And unfortunately, once in a while, a solder joint is defective. As Glenn pointed out, sometimes not enough solder is applied. And sometimes, the joint doesn't get hot enough resulting in a cold solder joint. The tube may have tested fine before it left the factory, but time and usage can exacerbate the problem. So reheating the pins until the solder reflows and even adding a bit more solder sometimes does the trick.


----------



## mordy

Hi gibosi,
Thanks for your clarification of why heating the pins work. The only problems I have encountered with loud popping noises and explosions are with the Sylvania 6SN7W and Tung Sol/Arcturus 12SN7GT, both octals from the 40's.
The TS 12SN7GT seems to be behaving just fine now, and the Sylvania 6SN7W worked very well for about 6 1/2 hours before it got a mild to moderate crackle attack.
I don't think that I heated the pins to the point that the solder really started flowing. How do I add the right amount of solder? Should I hold the tube upside down?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> Thanks for your clarification of why heating the pins work. The only problems I have encountered with loud popping noises and explosions are with the Sylvania 6SN7W and Tung Sol/Arcturus 12SN7GT, both octals from the 40's.
> The TS 12SN7GT seems to be behaving just fine now, and the Sylvania 6SN7W worked very well for about 6 1/2 hours before it got a mild to moderate crackle attack.
> I don't think that I heated the pins to the point that the solder really started flowing. How do I add the right amount of solder? Should I hold the tube upside down?



I haven't tried to add solder... But I suspect that holding the tube upside down might not be a good idea. Solder might run down the wire lead and could cause a short. So holding the tube sideways and essentially pushing the solder into the bottom of the pin might be best. But again, I haven't tried this....


----------



## rnros (Oct 8, 2018)

mordy said:


> I don't think that I heated the pins to the point that the solder really started flowing. How do I add the right amount of solder? Should I hold the tube upside down?



Hi Mordy,
Upside down, hold iron on side of pin closer to top for a little while, then touch solder to pin tip.
If it's hot enough, solder will flow, if not, keep applying heat until solder flows.
Flat tip iron is best, more surface contact, but conical can work if you tip it slightly vertical for more surface contact.
Won't hurt or damage anything, just a matter reaching the right temperature.

If you want to remove the existing solder in the pin, use some of the fine copper mesh made for that purpose.
Place copper mesh on top of pin, hold the iron on the mesh until solder flows up into the mesh.
That's the first step if you ever want to change the base on a tube.

Edit: Solder will solidify when it contacts the cooler section of the pin, so unless you're using a very large, or very hot iron, solder flowing all the way through the pin is unlikely. Most DIY irons are on the small side. Try it on an old tube for practice.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Searched for her on Tidal and I'm digging it! Switched over to the Auteurs to give the instruments more room to play in but her piano work is beautiful.


Hi Phantaminum and JV,
I have one FDD20 that was adapted by h1 and needs an external 12V power source. Couldn't find the tube ATM and anyhow did not want to bother to hook up everything so decided to try the FDD20 sound-alike Mullard ECC31 (ECC33 substitute with adapter).
Here it presides over the power tube minions - nothing like a ST tube for visual appeal:




It sounds great with these power tubes: A warm, voluptuous sound with that famous Mullard mid range in addition to a lot of energy in the mid bass.
To celebrate I played a 1918 recording called "That Teasin' Rag" by the Original Dixieland Jazz Band. This is a high fidelity direct-to-disc acoustic recording. The recording engineer must have been a genius because you can clearly hear drums and cymbals; instruments that were absent from most jazz recordings in the early 20's up to say 1926.
Here is a 1925 picture of an acoustic recording studio - no microphones and no room for error - direct to disc.


----------



## rnros

Nice looking pairing at RMAF, ZMF Verite and GOTL.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/can...ons-oct-5-7-2018.890427/page-10#post-14528793


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> Hi Mordy,
> Upside down, hold iron on side of pin closer to top for a little while, then touch solder to pin tip.
> If it's hot enough, solder will flow, if not, keep applying heat until solder flows.
> Flat tip iron is best, more surface contact, but conical can work if you tip it slightly vertical for more surface contact.
> ...




This copper mesh works well for sucking up solder.  Used this quite a bit in my fathers TV repair shop.
Also used something similar to this for unsoldering joints on PCB
https://www.showmecables.com/desold...MI6ffE84j53QIVUrbACh0HoAKsEAQYAiABEgIqAfD_BwE


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> This copper mesh works well for sucking up solder.  Used this quite a bit in my fathers TV repair shop.
> Also used something similar to this for unsoldering joints on PCB
> https://www.showmecables.com/desold...MI6ffE84j53QIVUrbACh0HoAKsEAQYAiABEgIqAfD_BwE


I want to thank everybody who contributed knowledge about how to solder the pins on octal tubes - thanks.
Another problem: Plugged in a 6336 Raytheon tube. It lights up but no sound. Checked all the pins - clean. Any advice on how to revive it?
Luckily I have other pairs of the 6336B. Enjoying a pair of Cetron 6336B with the Mullard ECC31. It makes even my $13 tube testing headphones (Sennheiser HD201) sound good.


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> I want to thank everybody who contributed knowledge about how to solder the pins on octal tubes - thanks.
> Another problem: Plugged in a 6336 Raytheon tube. It lights up but no sound. Checked all the pins - clean. Any advice on how to revive it?
> Luckily I have other pairs of the 6336B. Enjoying a pair of Cetron 6336B with the Mullard ECC31. It makes even my $13 tube testing headphones (Sennheiser HD201) sound good.



This is magical sound - ECC31 and Cetron 6336B. If I had to do it again, I might just order the basic $700 GOTL with three sockets for a driver and a pair of power tubes.


----------



## leftside

rnros said:


> Nice looking pairing at RMAF, ZMF Verite and GOTL.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/can...ons-oct-5-7-2018.890427/page-10#post-14528793


What's the tube configuration being used?


----------



## 2359glenn

6336 outputs 12SN7 Tung-Sol BGRP and I think a 5AR4/GZ34 rectifier.


----------



## rnros

leftside said:


> What's the tube configuration being used?



Driver looks like TS BGRP with 6336 (metal plate) power tube. Not sure about rectifier.

Edit: You beat me to it...


----------



## rnros

@2359glenn Should I be sending you the sockets and caps for the GEL3N now?
Also picked up a pair of Yamamoto RCA jacks, just curious about them, look nice.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> This is magical sound - ECC31 and Cetron 6336B. If I had to do it again, I might just order the basic $700 GOTL with three sockets for a driver and a pair of power tubes.



Really sounds the same except you can't use 6 X  6BX/BL7.
Building one now the only extra is the 6.3-12.6-25.2 volt switch for the driver.


rnros said:


> @2359glenn Should I be sending you the sockets and caps for the GEL3N now?
> Also picked up a pair of Yamamoto RCA jacks, just curious about them, look nice.



Yes I got the transformers last week.
Did you get a Yamamoto octal socket for the rectifier??


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> Yes I got the transformers last week.
> Did you get a Yamamoto octal socket for the rectifier??



Yes. Thanks.


----------



## gibosi

A pair of Raytheon CK5694 have popped up on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-...CC32-Matched-Amplifier-Tube-Pair/223181106023

And I realized that I hadn't listened to this tube in a long time, so rolled it in (Tung-Sol 6BX7 and GEC U18/20):




Generally, I'm not a big fan of the Raytheon sound, but the 5694 is an exception. This is a very good tube.


----------



## gibosi

Received a nice Eimac VT-127A here recently, 5 volts, 10.4 amps. Think it might make a nice driver for the Glenn with an external heater power supply. And yes, I am joking. lol 

http://www.tubecollectors.org/eimac/archives/vt127a.pdf

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa1126.htm

The yellow Uranium glass seals around the connecting pins are kind of neat.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> A pair of Raytheon CK5694 have popped up on eBay:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-...CC32-Matched-Amplifier-Tube-Pair/223181106023
> 
> ...



Nice!  I would love one of these...would be able to use one of my 2x 5694 to 6SN7 adapters 

What is it about Raytheon that you don't care for, g?  Just curious...


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> A pair of Raytheon CK5694 have popped up on eBay:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-...CC32-Matched-Amplifier-Tube-Pair/223181106023
> 
> And I realized that I hadn't listened to this tube in a long time, so rolled it in (Tung-Sol 6BX7 and GEC U18/20):



The last 5694 seen on Ebay sold for 199.00 plus 8 bucks shipping!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-CK5694-Vacuum-Tube-/173522119614

Be interesting to see how much $$$ this pair go for.

.


----------



## attmci

This naked 6SN7W has been on the east bay for a long time. You may be able to negotiate a better price. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/STRONG-coi...h=item28694a4920:g:BZwAAOSwtLxbjRPh:rk:4:pf:0


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice!  I would love one of these...would be able to use one of my 2x 5694 to 6SN7 adapters
> 
> What is it about Raytheon that you don't care for, g?  Just curious...



Since my hearing isn't all that good anymore, it's all about the mid-range for me, especially vocals. And while I can't quite put it into words, the mid-range on most Raytheon tubes seems a bit off to me. However, I quite like the 5694.



JazzVinyl said:


> The last 5694 seen on Ebay sold for 199.00 plus 8 bucks shipping!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-CK5694-Vacuum-Tube-/173522119614
> 
> ...



Yeah, I am very thankful that I picked mine up when it was still largely unknown. I am almost embarrassed to admit that I paid only $25. I doubt that we will ever see that price again....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Love the 12AU7 as driver in this amp and the ECC804...wow...

Just switched to the Haltron 13D1 and I must say, that is one sweet sounding driver in this amp, too!!

Gotta love the ability to sail around and switch from 6v to 12v to 25v so easily!  Makes this amp really special. 

And I can run specially biased C3g's too?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Craig Chaquico...played guitar for Jeffersin Starship for a few years,  mid to late 70's. 

Then enjoyed a solo career as a New Age guitarist.   This Album is so fine, in studio engineering, makes you wish everything
you own, sounded this crisp...


----------



## mordy (Oct 10, 2018)

rnros said:


> Nice looking pairing at RMAF, ZMF Verite and GOTL.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/can...ons-oct-5-7-2018.890427/page-10#post-14528793


Hi rnros,
Since I have the TS BGRP 12SN7GT and the Cetron 6336B I decided that if it is good for the RMAF it should sound good in my GOTL as well.
Said and done - very nice sound. Then I pulled out the TS 12SN7 and moved the rear voltage switch back to 6.3V and plugged in a Mullard ECC31.
Wow! This is a full bodied sound with a beautiful everything you can want. This could be perhaps the best sounding combination I have come across so far. Just sitting hear with my T1s and grinning from ear to ear and hearing the proverbial new things in familiar recordings. The micro details and sound stage are absolutely astounding.
Magical.
Put the 6336 in the back seat so they should cool better from my fan mounted above them - the amp is barely warm.



Here is a picture of the 4" PC fan mounted underneath the shelf above the GOTL. The air flow draws away heat from the amp. The fan is powered by a 12V 1A adapter from somewhere.



If somebody wants to try the ECC31 it goes by two other names that may fetch less money: NR73 and CV1285 but all are the same and made by Mullard.
Probably the best place to get them is from a UK source.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Andy Summers...guitarist for the Police, put out several solo albums...one "The Golden Wire" is quite New Age, and an album I have enjoyed for years, never tiring of it. It's a treat, if you've never heard it.   That Haltron 13D1 is really taking care of business:


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi rnros,
> Since I have the TS BGRP 12SN7GT and the Cetron 6336B I decided that if it is good for the RMAF it should sound good in my GOTL as well.
> Said and done - very nice sound. Then I pulled out the TS 12SN7 and moved the rear voltage switch back to 6.3V and plugged in a Mullard ECC31.
> Wow! This is a full bodied sound with a beautiful everything you can want. This could be perhaps the best sounding combination I have come across so far. Just sitting hear with my T1s and grinning from ear to ear and hearing the proverbial new things in familiar recordings.
> ...



I like it, Mordy!! I have the ECC31 but no 6336B's...

Last time ai tried the ECC31, it was with the Mullard 6080's definitely a quality outfit.  Love your fan, too...very smart.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I like it, Mordy!! I have the ECC31 but no 6336B's...
> 
> Last time ai tried the ECC31, it was with the Mullard 6080's definitely a quality outfit.  Love your fan, too...very smart.


Hi JV,
The best 6336 tube is supposed to be the Cetron 6336B. Highly recommended.
Keep on looking and you should be able to pick up a pair for not too much money. I paid less than $15/tube a couple of months ago.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> The best 6336 tube is supposed to be the Cetron 6336B. Highly recommended.
> Keep on looking and you should be able to pick up a pair for not too much money. I paid less than $15/tube a couple of months ago.



Looked earlier today...much higher than that, at the moment.  As my friend Mordy says:    Patience!!

I did switch to ECC31 and Mullard 6080's....and yes! Sooooo professional sounding!!  Female vocals...Wow!!


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi rnros,
> Since I have the TS BGRP 12SN7GT and the Cetron 6336B I decided that if it is good for the RMAF it should sound good in my GOTL as well.
> Said and done - very nice sound. Then I pulled out the TS 12SN7 and moved the rear voltage switch back to 6.3V and plugged in a Mullard ECC31.
> *Wow! This is a full bodied sound with a beautiful everything you can want.* This could be perhaps the best sounding combination I have come across so far. Just sitting hear with my T1s and grinning from ear to ear and hearing the proverbial new things in familiar recordings. *The micro details and sound stage are absolutely astounding.
> ...



Completely agree with you. The CET 6336B shows the best that the MUL ECC31 has to offer. IMHO, it surpasses the C3g in low end control and detail adding another level of precision to the projected soundstage.


----------



## rnros (Oct 10, 2018)

@mordy
If you like the CET 6336B with the ECC31, you might also like it with the EL8, but you need the 2fer EL3N adapter.
So if you have that adapter from a previous amp... might be worth a try. Great tube that can still be found for $10.
Don't really like using the adapter, but the EL8 is very good. It's a 1949 post war Valvo tube.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-EL8-Valvo-TELEFUNKEN-Rohre-NOS-NIB/223165419511?
https://classic-tubeshop-kunisch.de...ef9e-ace6-43b4-afb5-afc7dc707193/Products/587

Short description is that the tonal balance hits the middle ground between the ECC31 and C3g, meaning slightly more neutral than either.
Same dynamic and extension capability of those two, but with that magical level of subtle and precise soundstage detail across the entire FR.
At first it just sounds so good and easy, non-fatiguing, then you begin to hear all the subtle low amplitude cues you haven't heard before.
Might not be as well suited for some genres, because it doesn't accent or emphasize any area of the FR, so YMMV.
But for me, with especially good recordings, orchestra, jazz, solo instrument, or voice, this tube has become a favorite.


----------



## rnros (Oct 10, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Looked earlier today...much higher than that, at the moment.  As my friend Mordy says:    Patience!!
> 
> I did switch to ECC31 and Mullard 6080's....and yes! Sooooo professional sounding!!  Female vocals...Wow!!



Mordy was very lucky to find those auctions, I saw the listings but already had some. So if you can wait, you never know!
If not, there is a seller on eBay that has them for $45 each, NOS and original box. Best price I've seen for true NOS versions of these.
I did buy from this guy when he first listed at $54, but... LOL, some earlier pairs I paid $160! And I thought that was good. : )

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CETRON-JAN...095461&hash=item442898abce:g:OsMAAOSwkxRatVn6


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> If you like the CET 6336B with the ECC31, you might also like it with the EL8



EL8 looks like a smaller EL12. 3 dual EL11 and 2 dual EL12 spez adapters are on it's way to me.

Did you use dual EL8 as drivers and / or powers?


----------



## UntilThen

I'll play along with the current interest in 6336 power tubes but I will use ECC35 as a driver with it. Amazing tone. ECC31 is nice but warmer. ECC35 is airer, clearer at the top and opens up the stage - width, depth and height.


----------



## 2359glenn

I am switching from two # 27 tubes to two 6J5s  1/2 a 6SN7   Just bought two GEC L63 VT-154 from Langrex these are equivalent to a 6J5.
Should sound nice.  Got to get a pair of GEC  6AS7s then it will be all GEC amplification .


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I'll play along with the current interest in 6336 power tubes but I will use ECC35 as a driver with it. Amazing tone. ECC31 is nice but warmer. ECC35 is airer, clearer at the top and opens up the stage - width, depth and height.




Sounds good! I like "warm" and am really happy with ECC31 / Mullard 6080.  

Read with interest your comparison of the black base Syl 6SN7W vs the metal base.  And sounds like the black base would be more my cup of tea...warmer less bright. Bought the right version for me, sounds like.

Don't have the 6336 and not in the mood to pay $100.00 to hear them.   Will be patient


----------



## JazzVinyl

rnros said:


> Mordy was very lucky to find those auctions, I saw the listings but already had some. So if you can wait, you never know!
> If not, there is a seller on eBay that has them for $45 each, NOS and original box. Best price I've seen for true NOS versions of these.
> I did buy from this guy when he first listed at $54, but... LOL, some earlier pairs I paid $160! And I thought that was good. : )
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/CETRON-JAN-6336B-Vintage-Military-Spec-Vacuum-TUBE/292738870222



Sounds good...

Since I have 5998's will probably wait for a cheaper pair of 6336's...I do have the EL3N to 6SN7 adaptors, so maybe will give the EL8's a whirl.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> I am switching from two # 27 tubes to two 6J5s  1/2 a 6SN7   Just bought two GEC L63 VT-154 from Langrex these are equivalent to a 6J5.
> Should sound nice.  Got to get a pair of GEC  6AS7s then it will be all GEC amplification .



All GEC!! Will be awesome, Glenn!

.


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> Completely agree with you. The CET 6336B shows the best that the MUL ECC31 has to offer. IMHO, it surpasses the C3g in low end control and detail adding another level of precision to the projected soundstage.



I will try to express what I find so beguiling with the ECC31/6336 tubes.
Some time ago I decided to plug in the most expensive tubes I have in the GOTL, which if bought at the wrong prices today, would cost more than the amp - C3gS, GEC 6080 and GEC 6AS7.
The result was an overload of musical information and details. It was as if all the subtle background clues ended up in the front together with everything else going on in the recording. TOOOO MUCH!
Well, the ECC31/6336 combination has all this information but puts it in perspective.
Suddenly, I hear voices....No, not that kind.
I can hear one of the musicians saying something to another musician while playing, or I can clearly hear people talking in the audience.
When people show their appreciation by clapping their hands it is sort of many individual hand claps and not just a roar (or just ignored by other tube combinations). 
You hear subtle musical clues that get lost with other tubes but in a way that it does not overload your perception and instead enhances it.
And with live recordings you get much more of the action going on with the audience.
Very special!


----------



## mordy

Just found what looks like a good deal on a pair of C3gS tubes. Although they are used for 800 hours, these tubes are rated at 10,000 hours.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pair-s-o...983236?hash=item4b51075904:g:1tYAAOSw5ENbq4Um
Sometimes listings that start with words not mentioning brand name or designation get lost on eBay such as this one starting with " 2 pair's of..."


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I am switching from two # 27 tubes to two 6J5s  1/2 a 6SN7   Just bought two GEC L63 VT-154 from Langrex these are equivalent to a 6J5.
> Should sound nice.  Got to get a pair of GEC  6AS7s then it will be all GEC amplification .



I bet Starvos has a nice pair


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Just found what looks like a good deal on a pair of C3gS tubes. Although they are used for 800 hours, these tubes are rated at 10,000 hours.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pair-s-o...983236?hash=item4b51075904:g:1tYAAOSw5ENbq4Um
> Sometimes listings that start with words not mentioning brand name or designation get lost on eBay such as this one starting with " 2 pair's of..."



Yes, that is a good deal considering how the C3g's have gone up in price. Great deal, actually.
I think it is the most transparent driver that I have heard.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I am switching from two # 27 tubes to two 6J5s  1/2 a 6SN7   Just bought two GEC L63 VT-154 from Langrex these are equivalent to a 6J5.
> Should sound nice.  Got to get a pair of GEC  6AS7s then it will be all GEC amplification .



So I guess now I am the only one crazy enough to roll 27s? lol

And regarding the GEC sound...  I rolled GEC 6AS7, B36 and U18/20, and for me, it was too much of a good thing.... too thin and too airy. So based on my experience, if one is going to roll GEC drivers and outputs together, I would recommend using a different rectifier, something darker and fuller.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

whirlwind said:


> Yes, that is a good deal considering how the C3g's have gone up in price. Great deal, actually.
> I think it is the most transparent driver that I have heard.


That's a bargain price since I paid $120 for new old stock from Germany . I am just waiting to use them in my Glenn hopefully by the end of the month .


----------



## whirlwind

FunctionalDoc said:


> That's a bargain price since I paid $120 for new old stock from Germany . I am just waiting to use them in my Glenn hopefully by the end of the month .



Happy for you that you are going to finally get your amp.....worth the wait...I am sure you will love it!


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> EL8 looks like a smaller EL12. 3 dual EL11 and 2 dual EL12 spez adapters are on it's way to me.
> 
> Did you use dual EL8 as drivers and / or powers?



Will look forward to your post on those tubes in the GOTL.

Only used EL8 as drivers. It was designed as an output pentode/tetrode, but at a lower power output level, similar to the EL2/EL32.
So not in the same power category as the EL11/EL12, or even the EL3N.
A new design at the time with higher sensitivity, originally the UL2 with 35V heater, then the 6V/500mA EL8 version. 
Huge plates for a tube that size. Posted a little while ago with some links for info.


----------



## rnros

FunctionalDoc said:


> That's a bargain price since I paid $120 for new old stock from Germany . I am just waiting to use them in my Glenn hopefully by the end of the month .



Congrats on the incoming GOTL! C3g is a beautiful sound in this amp.


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 10, 2018)

rnros said:


> @mordy
> If you like the CET 6336B with the ECC31, you might also like it with the EL8, but you need the 2fer EL3N adapter.



I think I may just give this a whirl. I find the TS 6AS7G at times with too much body and with the C3Gs a bit too much of a good thing. I usually use tubes that are leaner with the TS power tubes. Totally the opposite when using the 5998s.

I found that the cheap ribbed 50s Foton 6n8s sounds beautiful with 6bx7s and the Auteurs with Auteur pads. Now if I can find some more of those tubes i’ll be set.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> So I guess now I am the only one crazy enough to roll 27s? lol
> 
> And regarding the GEC sound...  I rolled GEC 6AS7, B36 and U18/20, and for me, it was too much of a good thing.... too thin and too airy. So based on my experience, if one is going to roll GEC drivers and outputs together, I would recommend using a different rectifier, something darker and fuller.


I run GEC KT88's, GEC A2900 (12AT7) and Mullard 1956 12AX7 or RCA 1940's 12AX7 in my amps.


----------



## Althalus

FunctionalDoc said:


> That's a bargain price since I paid $120 for new old stock from Germany . I am just waiting to use them in my Glenn hopefully by the end of the month .



Congrats too, FD.


----------



## mordy

Just received a couple of ECC804 tubes. Some say Mullard and some say BVA - are they different or all made by Mullard?


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I bet Starvos has a nice pair



I will be asking him tomorrow. But I hate to ask a friend for things.
We probably will get into a argument if he don't charge me enough


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> I think I may just give this a whirl. I find the TS 6AS7G at times with too much body and with the C3Gs a bit too much of a good thing. I usually use tubes that are leaner with the TS power tubes. Totally the opposite when using the 5998s.
> 
> I found that the cheap ribbed 50s Foton 6n8s sounds beautiful with 6bx7s and the Auteurs with Auteur pads. Now if I can find some more of those tubes i’ll be set.



So many good tube options available for this amp, for any size budget. Enough to make any DAC and headphone happy.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> I will be asking him tomorrow. But I hate to ask a friend for things.
> We probably will get into a argument if he don't charge me enough


Email me if that happens


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Just received a couple of ECC804 tubes. Some say Mullard and some say BVA - are they different or all made by Mullard?



As best I can tell, 90% of these were manufactured by British Mazda and about 10% by GEC. Mullard/Philips never made this tube. And in my opinion, the Mazda is the best.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> As best I can tell, 90% of these were manufactured by British Mazda and about 10% by GEC. Mullard/Philips never made this tube. And in my opinion, the Mazda is the best.


Got five of these today:



The left one only says Made in England, the middle one Mullard L/30L2 ECC 804 Made in Great Britain, and the right one Made in England BVA.
All appear to have the same construction.




Are they all Mazda tubes?
Paid about $5.60 each incl shipping.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Got five of these today:
> 
> The left one only says Made in England, the middle one Mullard L/30L2 ECC 804 Made in Great Britain, and the right one Made in England BVA.
> All appear to have the same construction.
> ...



Yep, they are all Mazda. And again, only British Mazda and GEC manufactured this tube. Mullard simply sourced them from Mazda and relabeled them. Standard practice.


----------



## gibosi

Hope to find some time soon to spend with a few 2C51/5670/396A:

From left to right, Bendix, Sylvania and Western Electric.


----------



## Althalus

I hope everyone lives far away from the area where the storm hit. I just saw some images, it's a big mess (again).


----------



## m17xr2b

gibosi said:


> So I guess now I am the only one crazy enough to roll 27s? lol
> 
> And regarding the GEC sound...  I rolled GEC 6AS7, B36 and U18/20, and for me, it was too much of a good thing.... too thin and too airy. So based on my experience, if one is going to roll GEC drivers and outputs together, I would recommend using a different rectifier, something darker and fuller.


Try the ECC32 with the GEC 6AS7G, a much better combo with just the right amount of weight.


----------



## 2359glenn

These are the 6J5 or GEC  L63  VT-154 I have on the way


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> These are the 6J5 or GEC  L63  VT-154 I have on the way



Nice Glenn, these are 1/2 a 6SN7 ?

Was it to hard to find quiet 27 tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Nice Glenn, these are 1/2 a 6SN7 ?
> 
> Was it to hard to find quiet 27 tubes.



I Have a good pair of 27s  but one of them is loosing it's getter. It will take forever to find another pair.
So switch sockets from 4 pin to 8 pin and I am good to go. The good thing they are Amphenol sockets and all there sockets are the same size.
4 pin 8 pin even 9&7 pin mini can be in the same size makes it easy to do.


----------



## whirlwind

That makes it nice, no need to mod the chassis.

Can't wait to hear your impressions once it is complete and you have all the tubes you need.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Just received a couple of ECC804 tubes. Some say Mullard and some say BVA - are they different or all made by Mullard?



Don't know if BVA is made by Mullard or not but I am super happy with my "Mazda" - made in Europe, somewhere....


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Don't know if BVA is made by Mullard or not but I am super happy with my "Mazda" - made in Europe, somewhere....


Hi JV,
Gibosi clarified that all five tubes I bought are


JazzVinyl said:


> Don't know if BVA is made by Mullard or not but I am super happy with my "Mazda" - made in Europe, somewhere....


Hi JV,
Gibosi clarified that all 5 tubes I bought are made by (British?) Mazda. BVA stands for British Valve Association. It was not a manufacturer but a trade group formed to protect British tube manufacturing from US companies that charged significantly less for their tubes.
One of the tactics of this trade group was to institue different tube designations so that it should be difficult to compare US tubes to British ones.
Be it as it may, these Mazda tubes have no date codes or factory codes at all (the two Mullard labeled tubes have this symbol: I_I).
My guess is 60's production.
They sound very nice, but the ECC31 spoiled me with it's fantastic detail when supported by the 6336B tubes.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Don't know if BVA is made by Mullard or not but I am super happy with my "Mazda" - made in Europe, somewhere....



BVA British Valve Association - a cartel of valve manufacturers in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (UK) that was designed to protect their interests from foreign competition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Valve_Association


----------



## Oskari (Oct 11, 2018)

mordy said:


> Just received a couple of ECC804 tubes. Some say Mullard and some say BVA - are they different or all made by Mullard?


Not enough information. BVA = British Valve Association, a cartel of which Mullard was a member.

Oops. Didn't see the latest messages for some reason. 

And the editor is dääm slow, too.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 11, 2018)

Anyone have one of these they are not using:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-EL3N-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter/191769639044


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 11, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> Gibosi clarified that all 5 tubes I bought are made by (British?) Mazda. BVA stands for British Valve Association. It was not a manufacturer but a trade group formed to protect British tube manufacturing from US companies that charged significantly less for their tubes.
> One of the tactics of this trade group was to institue different tube designations so that it should be difficult to compare US tubes to British ones.
> Be it as it may, these Mazda tubes have no date codes or factory codes at all (the two Mullard labeled tubes have this symbol: I_I).
> ...



I certainly enjoyed the ECC31 / Mullard 6080 combo...

Then went back to Syl 6SN7W / 6x 6BL7's....

I dunno....maybe the latter is best w/my gear....



PS - I thought the Mazda ECC804 sounded a lot like the pair of C3g's...


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> the two Mullard labeled tubes have this symbol: I_I


That would seem to match the "Purchases from third parties by Mullard" factory code in the Philips code system.


----------



## 2359glenn

Sending this off generator power This storm was worse then the last one.
Poring rain and 50 mph wind trees are down one fell on my barn.
Just a mess.
Lucy is at work they are working with flashlights crazy just should shut down.


----------



## 2359glenn

Couldn't get a GEC 6AS7 from Stavros he sold them all.
Will see what I can come up with not many on E-Bay only from India don't trust it..
Langrex don't have any.


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> Sending this off generator power This storm was worse then the last one.
> Poring rain and 50 mph wind trees are down one fell on my barn.
> Just a mess.
> Lucy is at work they are working with flashlights crazy just should shut down.



Stay safe Glenn! Florida and the bottom half of the East coast has just been getting battered by all of these Hurricanes.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Couldn't get a GEC 6AS7 from Stavros he sold them all.
> Will see what I can come up with not many on E-Bay only from India don't trust it..
> Langrex don't have any.


Ken has a couple. He don't like it at all. LOL


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Stay safe Glenn! Florida and the bottom half of the East coast has just been getting battered by all of these Hurricanes.



Still running on generator noisy but works good running the hole house.


----------



## mordy

Re the GEC 6AS7G the trick is to look for other designations as well (A1834 and CV2523) and rebranded ones such as MOV, Osram, Haltron and Marconi, Genelex and others.
Some time back rebranded Haltron GEC 6AS7 with the curved base were sold at reasonable prices by a seller in Poland, but they are long gone.
Lately there are counterfeit 6AS7 tubes being sold under famous names. As far as I have seen they are all Svetlana tubes. The give away are the dual inverted saucer getters. Many times the seller uses camera angles that you cannot see them, but here is a good picture of a Haltron/Telefunken 6AS7G (Western Germany Production) that really is a Svetlana 6H13C or similar.
The Svetlana tubes can be found for $30/pair - here a dishonest seller wants 11 times more for them:





https://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-TUBE...=item3b10569940:g:ZTEAAOSwdSRZ-5XN:rk:13:pf:0


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Sending this off generator power This storm was worse then the last one.
> Poring rain and 50 mph wind trees are down one fell on my barn.
> Just a mess.
> Lucy is at work they are working with flashlights crazy just should shut down.



Sorry to hear this Glenn. Working with flashlights is just insane!
Nice that you have that generator.
Is this the barn that houses Lucy horse?


----------



## UntilThen

Mullard ECC31 and GEC 6as7g. A treat for the ears. 

Glenn, stay safe !


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Mullard ECC31 and GEC 6as7g. A treat for the ears.
> 
> Glenn, stay safe !



That is a great combo indeed.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> That is a great combo indeed.



Yes there are good combos and there are great combos and this is as you said a great combo.

These tubes are so perfect that I hear no hiss or noise when I turn the volume knob to maximum with no music playing. Pitch silence. With 6 x 6bx7gt, I hear noise when the volume gets past 3pm.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Sorry to hear this Glenn. Working with flashlights is just insane!
> Nice that you have that generator.
> Is this the barn that houses Lucy horse?



Not a big problem we got rid of the horses.
Ran on generator all night still running on it. After 4 hrs the internet went dead then the phone there battery backup must have gone dead.
I could remember the power being out for a week and the phone still worked. Now they got new equipment fed with fiber optic guess it 
has ben determined that 4 hrs is good enough backup. What about emergency's we have no cell service there out in the boonies.  
Get the cell service off the internet with a AT&T micro cell.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Mullard ECC31 and GEC 6as7g. A treat for the ears.
> 
> Glenn, stay safe !



Look at those beauty's


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> Look at those beauty's



Really. Those shoulder type tubes with the brown bases look like they belong in a museum.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Really. Those shoulder type tubes with the brown bases look like they belong in a museum.


Yes - the Museum of Great Sound!
BTW, the build quality of the 6AS7G GEC that I have is outstanding-museum quality.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> Sending this off generator power This storm was worse then the last one.
> Poring rain and 50 mph wind trees are down one fell on my barn.
> Just a mess.
> Lucy is at work they are working with flashlights crazy just should shut down.



Hope the damage to the barn isn't too severe. Great to have a generator in a situation like that.
This went one came up so quick, only good thing was that it traveled so fast.
Best of luck with all the cleanup. Be careful with the tree removal if you do it yourself.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Look at those beauty's



Nature's ain't kind to you. It's a pain to see what you've to go through. Despite this, you're still producing these gorgeous sounding amps at really reasonable price for tube amps aficionados. The community here appreciates what you do despite the odds. Thanks Glenn.

When I approached Starvos for a pair of GEC 6as7g, he told me he has only one NOS NIB pair left. It was his best and he kept it to the last.... but said he will sell it to me nevertheless. It's not cheap but still he sold it lower than market price compared to Langrex. He sent me these pictures and the tubes statistics. I was really impressed. So yeah after 2 years of tube rolling on Elise and Euforia, I finally splurge on a pair of the best GEC 6as7g. I had use it sparingly but on those occasions like now when I am listening to it, it's just so amazing in it's tone.


----------



## UntilThen

It's the most photogenic of all the tubes for tube glow.


----------



## UntilThen

This picture captures it best. It's an incredible glow.


----------



## gibosi

Actually, I have three pairs of GEC 6AS7G. And contrary to some rumors, these are my favorite 6AS7-type output tube. As above, with the Mullard ECC31, they are simply superb.

December, 1949. Notice that  there are two cup getters. Later tubes have only one. Also, brown bases were not introduced until the 1950's, so these older tubes have black bases.



March, 1956. I don't know the significance of rounded base versus square base. Contrary to what some say, the shape and color of the base has absolutely no affect on the sound. My best guess is that rounded-base tubes were intended for use in equipment with bottom-mounted sockets and square-base tubes with top-mounted sockets, but again, this is just a WAG on my part. 



February, 1961


----------



## attmci (Oct 12, 2018)

gibosi said:


> Actually, I have three pairs of GEC 6AS7G. And contrary to some rumors, these are my favorite 6AS7-type output tube. As above, with the Mullard ECC31, they are simply superb.
> 
> December, 1949. Notice that  there are two cup getters. Later tubes have only one. Also, brown bases were not introduced until the 1950's, so these older tubes have black bases.
> 
> ...




Have a nice weekend.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Actually, I have three pairs of GEC 6AS7G. And contrary to some rumors, these are my favorite 6AS7-type output tube. As above, with the Mullard ECC31, they are simply superb.
> 
> December, 1949. Notice that  there are two cup getters. Later tubes have only one. Also, brown bases were not introduced until the 1950's, so these older tubes have black bases.
> 
> ...




I remember when you found the black base pair and for one heck of a deal too


----------



## gibosi (Oct 13, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> I remember when you found the black base pair and for one heck of a deal too



Yeah, the seller didn't know what he had, so I really lucked out. 

Last night I spent some time with a Sylvania 5670, which is the industrial, or premium, version of the 2C51. This is a deceptively small tube with an amplification factor of 35, similar to a 6DJ8. If you like the Sylvania house sound, this little guy is a keeper.

Unfortunately, the 2C51 requires a special adapter as the pin-out is different than the 6DJ8, 12AU7 or 5687. That said, in addition to the standard American manufacturers, both Bendix and Western Electric also made this tube, which gives those into tube rolling a nice variety.


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 12, 2018)

Really enjoying the FDD20 after it opened up. At first it was bit bright and the treble was harsh.

After running it for a two days it really has come into its own. It reminds me of the c3gs but to me it's such a distortion free and very clean sound. It’s warmed up and lots of detail coming through. Now if can get a good 6bx7 combination without a slight hiss it would be perfect.



Soon.


----------



## UntilThen

G you have an amazing collection of GEC 6as7g. That is worth a lot now.


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> Really enjoying the FDD20 after it opened up. At first it was bit bright and the treble was harsh.
> 
> After running it for a two days it really has come into its own. It reminds me of the c3gs but to me it's such a distortion free and very clean sound. It’s warmed up and lots of detail coming through. Now if can get a good 6bx7 combination without a slight hiss it would be perfect.
> 
> ...



For quiet 6BX7s, I've had very good luck with the '60s RCA clear tops, also my favorite for SQ.
(And the Tung Sols.)
My FDD20 has not performed that well yet, will have to give it more time.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6BX7GT-5-RCA-NOS-NIB-MATCHED-DATE-TESTED-VACUUM-TUBE-Q84/273504097480?


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> For quiet 6BX7s, I've had very good luck with the '60s RCA clear tops, also my favorite for SQ.
> (And the Tung Sols.)
> My FDD20 has not performed that well yet, will have to give it more time.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6BX7GT-5-RCA-NOS-NIB-MATCHED-DATE-TESTED-VACUUM-TUBE-Q84/273504097480?



I bid on these the other day and lost. How did these come up again? Unless they are another lot.... very strange.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I bid on these the other day and lost. How did these come up again? Unless they are another lot.... very strange.



Another opportunity! 
I have 7 or 8 of these, mixed pairs and singles, all mid '60s. Very nice.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Another opportunity!
> I have 7 or 8 of these, mixed pairs and singles, all mid '60s. Very nice.



I'm sure they are very nice but I'm saturated with tubes. The motivation to get more tubes are not as great now. I have so many power tubes to rotate. 

Today's spotlight is my pair of Bendix 6080wb which I've just brought home from my son's place. I've missed it for several months. Stoned cold they took 15 mins to warm up.


----------



## UntilThen

Bendix 6080wb tone is one of warm and colossus bass weight and wide soundstage. To counter that I've decided to pair it with a Haltron ECC33 which is clear, detailed and breezy. The combination is a very good tone. The Bendix is a very good power tube in the right combination.

I'm also interested to test out the FDD20 again and I'll compare it against the ECC33 with the same Bendix 6080wb.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I'm sure they are very nice but I'm saturated with tubes. The motivation to get more tubes are not as great now. I have so many power tubes to rotate.
> 
> Today's spotlight is my pair of Bendix 6080wb which I've just brought home from my son's place. I've missed it for several months. Stoned cold they took 15 mins to warm up.



Same here, very happy with what I have, looking forward to GEL3N.
Nice Bendix 6080s.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> looking forward to GEL3N.



That's something to look forward to.

I'm just unable to swap the driver yet because ECC33 and Bendix 6080wb packs a knockout punch in the sonic stakes. I'm afraid the FDD20 will have big shoes to fill but we shall see.....


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> For quiet 6BX7s, I've had very good luck with the '60s RCA clear tops, also my favorite for SQ.
> (And the Tung Sols.)
> My FDD20 has not performed that well yet, will have to give it more time.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6BX7GT-5-RCA-NOS-NIB-MATCHED-DATE-TESTED-VACUUM-TUBE-Q84/273504097480?



I like these tubes also, the clear tops give off a nice glow as well as sounding wonderful.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 13, 2018)

rnros said:


> Same here, very happy with what I have, looking forward to GEL3N.
> Nice Bendix 6080s.



For people who can not stand any back round noise what so ever from tubes, the one tube mode in this amp is the ticket, especially if you are not a really loud listener.
Back round is always black as midnight, volume dial up all the way......at times I have the dial all the way to the right while listening.

Amp runs super cool and the tubes are rated for like 10,000 hours.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> For people who can not stand any back round noise what so ever from tubes, the one tube mode in this amp is the ticket, especially if you are not a really loud listener.
> Back round is always black as midnight, volume dial up all the way......at times I have the dial all the way to the right while listening.
> 
> Amp runs super cool and the tubes are rated for like _*10,000 hours*_.



Not the power tube. The tube lifespan also depends on the amp design. So ask Glenn.


----------



## UntilThen

FDD20 is in the driver's seat. I'm very very surprised that the tube is very quiet now. In the past, there's always some noise but it's very quiet now, even at max volume with no music playing. This is also true of the Bendix 6080wb tubes. 

Been listening to this combo since last night and it's a very good tone. FDD20 is more mid-centric and has a narrower stage compared to ECC33 but the tone is very engaging. Brings out the best in vocals.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> FDD20 is in the driver's seat. I'm very very surprised that the tube is very quiet now. In the past, there's always some noise but it's very quiet now, even at max volume with no music playing. This is also true of the Bendix 6080wb tubes.
> 
> Been listening to this combo since last night and it's a very good tone. FDD20 is more mid-centric and has a narrower stage compared to ECC33 but the tone is very engaging. Brings out the best in vocals.



Hey UT,

I found my experience with the FDD20 different. I hear them more neutral when combined with the 6BX7s and the Auteurs compared to the rest of my tubes. Vocals were pushed back in stage (more in line with the rest of the instruments) but in turn made it sound like there was more depth. Mid bass has good slam but its treble really makes it shine. It's grain free, clear, and brings through lots of detail without being harsh. I wouldn't be able to compare it to the ECC33 as I don't own one but I agree the sound stage is narrower. 

This is a good metric through. It could be the Mullard 6080s are giving it that extra mid range (which I love) and may have to look for a pair.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It's the most photogenic of all the tubes for tube glow.



You are teasing me.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hey just got my internet and phone back bout a 1/2 hour ago power came back last night.
Did have the generator that can run the hole house. It was like the power wasn't out. But was expensive feeding it with gas used 5 gal every 10 hrs.
Could watch TV as I have a antenna but no internet.


----------



## Phantaminum

Tungsram CV925 joined the acapella group.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Hey just got my internet and phone back bout a 1/2 hour ago power came back last night.
> Did have the generator that can run the hole house. It was like the power wasn't out. But was expensive feeding it with gas used 5 gal every 10 hrs.
> Could watch TV as I have a antenna but no internet.



Welcome back!


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> Tungsram CV925 joined the acapella group.



So how are you liking the British Tungsram? I have a grey glass 6SN7GT, but I haven't listened to it in a long time...


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> So how are you liking the British Tungsram? I have a grey glass 6SN7GT, but I haven't listened to it in a long time...



It's a warm and inviting tube. Good low end and the top is slightly rolled off to my ears so it makes for easy listening.


----------



## gibosi

As one person put it, and I agree, British Tungsram is a rather delicate sound, quite nice.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Hey UT,
> 
> I found my experience with the FDD20 different. I hear them more neutral when combined with the 6BX7s and the Auteurs compared to the rest of my tubes. Vocals were pushed back in stage (more in line with the rest of the instruments) but in turn made it sound like there was more depth. Mid bass has good slam but its treble really makes it shine. It's grain free, clear, and brings through lots of detail without being harsh. I wouldn't be able to compare it to the ECC33 as I don't own one but I agree the sound stage is narrower.
> 
> This is a good metric through. It could be the Mullard 6080s are giving it that extra mid range (which I love) and may have to look for a pair.



We are using quite different setup and hence we won't be hearing the same.

You are using FDD20 with 6 x 6bx7s and Auteur. I'm using FDD20 with Bendix 6080wb and Audeze LCD-2f.

Bendix 6080wb will sound quite different to 6bx7s. It's also very different from the Mullard 6080.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Tungsram CV925 joined the acapella group.



That picture does look very neat and nice.


----------



## UntilThen

A lot of nice tubes here.
https://www.ebay.it/sch/i.html?_pgn=1&LH_Complete=1&_sop=3&isRefine=false&_nkw=12sn7


----------



## UntilThen

Happiness is when a noisy tube becomes quiet. When I saw several of the Marconi B36 for sale on the above link, I decided to try and clean the pins of my tube. A light sanding then apply Red Deoxit, followed by Gold Deoxit. Gave the metal base and glass a thorough clean and viola it's like a new tube again. No noise at all. This tube is also from Starvos.


----------



## gibosi

Have been spending time with a Bendix 5670. The only other Bendix tube I have any experience with is the 6080, so didn't know what to expect. Compared to the Sylvania, the Bendix has too much treble and air with my default rectifier, the GEC U18/20. I instinctively rolled in the Cossor 53KU, but the result was too bland, no sweetness. Currently with the Mullard GZ32 installed it sounds great. Just for grins, next, I plan to roll in a Holland-made GZ34, but for now, it's all good.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> Have been spending time with a Bendix 5670. The only other Bendix tube I have any experience with is the 6080, so didn't know what to expect. Compared to the Sylvania, the Bendix has too much treble and air with my default rectifier, the GEC U18/20. I instinctively rolled in the Cossor 53KU, but the result was too bland, no sweetness. Currently with the Mullard GZ32 installed it sounds great. Just for grins, next, I plan to roll in a Holland-made GZ34, but for now, it's all good.



I have a 6n3p to 6sn7 adapter and have several Russian 6n3p and 5670 tubes. I should give them a try. One of my favorites were the GE 5 Star 5670s. Great bottom end, wide sound stage, extended highs, and ok mids. Sub bass can be a bit flubby but I love the sound signature.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Have been spending time with a Bendix 5670. The only other Bendix tube I have any experience with is the 6080, so didn't know what to expect. Compared to the Sylvania, the Bendix has too much treble and air with my default rectifier, the GEC U18/20. I instinctively rolled in the Cossor 53KU, but the result was too bland, no sweetness. Currently with the Mullard GZ32 installed it sounds great. Just for grins, next, I plan to roll in a Holland-made GZ34, but for now, it's all good.



Sounds good on the 5670 and tailoring it via the rectifier.  

I bought an inexpensive 12AU7 - branded "Baldwin" but made by Raytheon...and I am really surprised at how wonderful it sounds with the six pack of 6BL7's....

 

I have also enjoyed the sight of the many exotic tubes that have been shown lately...some very fine tubes owned by members of this group.  It's rather amazing 

Cheers all...


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> For people who can not stand any back round noise what so ever from tubes, the one tube mode in this amp is the ticket, especially if you are not a really loud listener.
> Back round is always black as midnight, volume dial up all the way......at times I have the dial all the way to the right while listening.
> 
> Amp runs super cool and the tubes are rated for like 10,000 hours.



I like having the option of one or two tube mode with GEL3N. What a great idea. It's like having two amps in one.
Extra benefit that the single tube stage is so quiet. Any limitation on headphones with the single tube stage? 
Haven't seen any lifetime hour ratings for the EL3N, but the cost is so reasonable, not a problem to keep backup pairs.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> I bought an inexpensive 12AU7 - branded "Baldwin" but made by Raytheon...and I am really surprised at how wonderful it sounds with the six pack of 6BL7's....



GOTL is so versatile. So many drivers you can roll in. Makes me want to roll in the Gold Lion 6922, Mullard M8136 and Voskhod 6n23p again.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> I like having the option of one or two tube mode with GEL3N. What a great idea. It's like having two amps in one.
> Extra benefit that the single tube stage is so quiet. Any limitation on headphones with the single tube stage?
> Haven't seen any lifetime hour ratings for the EL3N, but the cost is so reasonable, not a problem to keep backup pairs.



EL3N tubes should last a long time. I still have 2 tubes which I have stripped off the red paint. The other 8 red ones have gone to RossLiew. 

Tracking shows that the EL12 adapters will be here tomorrow. 5 of those dual adapters cost me $300. It's an expensive exercise but I've already spent quite a lot on those tubes so might as well try it. I have a feeling these EL tubes will outlive us.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> EL3N tubes should last a long time. I still have 2 tubes which I have stripped off the red paint. The other 8 red ones have gone to RossLiew.
> 
> Tracking shows that the EL12 adapters will be here tomorrow. 5 of those dual adapters cost me $300. It's an expensive exercise but I've already spent quite a lot on those tubes so might as well try it. I have a feeling these EL tubes will outlive us.



Should be interesting, GOTL seems able to take on any tube challenge. Worth the expense for the adapters.
Looking forward to your report on this.


----------



## UntilThen

Until the adapters arrive, here's to the trio of small tubes again. A revisitation.

Voshkod 6n23p with Bendix 6080wb. Don't ask me why I pair the 6n23p with the Bendix and not the 5998 or Gec 6as7g or Cetron 6336b or Tung Sol 7236 or 6 x 6bx7gt. Life is about choices and I chose the Bendix for these listening sessions. I am not going to step through all those power tubes. 

This combo is about bass, bass and more bass, especially with the planar magnetics LCD-2f, this should satisfy any bass lover. It's a solid thumping bass but not at the expense of very clear treble or the front row seats midrange. Details are projected stunningly clear and you get the gut churning bass. Solid stuff and very enjoyable. The intro to Hotel California, I'm afraid those bongo drums might explode with impact...


----------



## UntilThen

@gibosi  are these any good? and @2359glenn can I use these in GOTL? They are 12AT7 / ECC801s variant.

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/to...01-gold-pin-blue-label-12at7-ecc801s-variant/


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 14, 2018)

rnros said:


> I like having the option of one or two tube mode with GEL3N. What a great idea. It's like having two amps in one.
> Extra benefit that the single tube stage is so quiet. Any limitation on headphones with the single tube stage?
> Haven't seen any lifetime hour ratings for the EL3N, but the cost is so reasonable, not a problem to keep backup pairs.



You may be limited on one tube mode with headphones , depending on the headphone and how loud you listen.
I can listen with one tube mode with my Ori, but I have the volume maxed out....it sounds nice.

With the HD800 and the Atticus I can listen between 2 and 3  o'clock

You can switch between the two modes on the fly without hearing any noises, no clicking or noise of any kind when switching on the fly.
Just make sure you turn down the volume before switching to the two tube mode or you will blow your ears out.

The amp can be sensitive to back round noise in two tube mode, since one tube mode is dead silent, it makes you notice any noise, lol.


----------



## attmci (Oct 14, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> @gibosi  are these any good? and @2359glenn can I use these in GOTL? They are 12AT7 / ECC801s variant.
> 
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/to...01-gold-pin-blue-label-12at7-ecc801s-variant/


You had asked similar q before. Do You wanna a lot more gains? Can you use 6sl7? 

If the answer is yes. You will be fine.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 14, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> EL3N tubes should last a long time. I still have 2 tubes which I have stripped off the red paint. The other 8 red ones have gone to RossLiew.
> 
> Tracking shows that the EL12 adapters will be here tomorrow. 5 of those dual adapters cost me $300. It's an expensive exercise but I've already spent quite a lot on those tubes so might as well try it. I have a feeling these EL tubes will outlive us.



My Montgomery Wards radio from 1941 uses 9 tubes.  All but two are the original "Wards Airline" brand.  Radio needed about a dozen electrolytic and wax & paper capacitors replaced, but 77 years later....the tubes still work!   Six of the nine tubes btw, have metal jackets like the metal 6N7's discussed here recently.

So yes, expect your tubes to "way" outlast you 

Foul caps:



Radio has an mp3 player as input (I added a 3.5mm stereo panel jack turns that into mono and goes to 5 watt tube push-pull audio amp, skips radio stages) sounds good in the LR - makes everything “pleasant sounding” wife really likes it


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> @gibosi  are these any good? and @2359glenn can I use these in GOTL? They are 12AT7 / ECC801s variant.
> 
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/to...01-gold-pin-blue-label-12at7-ecc801s-variant/



yes the 12AT7 will be fine. Don't know how it will sound but sure it will sound good it is a good sounding tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 14, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Until the adapters arrive, here's to the trio of small tubes again. A revisitation.
> 
> Voshkod 6n23p with Bendix 6080wb. Don't ask me why I pair the 6n23p with the Bendix and not the 5998 or Gec 6as7g or Cetron 6336b or Tung Sol 7236 or 6 x 6bx7gt. Life is about choices and I chose the Bendix for these listening sessions. I am not going to step through all those power tubes.
> 
> This combo is about bass, bass and more bass, especially with the planar magnetics LCD-2f, this should satisfy any bass lover. It's a solid thumping bass but not at the expense of very clear treble or the front row seats midrange. Details are projected stunningly clear and you get the gut churning bass. Solid stuff and very enjoyable. The intro to Hotel California, I'm afraid those bongo drums might explode with impact...



Looks really good, UT! I like lots of bass and super clear treble 

I have been really thrilled with the 12AU7’s and that Mazda ECC804 in the GOTL. 

Glenn’s circuitry really makes the most of these drivers that can run so easily via a flip ‘o the switch


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 14, 2018)

@gibosi

Awhile back I had purchased two tubes from the UK and one of them had an OSRAM BVA sticker. Designation under the sticker has it as 12SN7/B36. What’s a good guess in your experience on who the original manufacturer is? It has black ladder plates and sounds fantastic with the 6BX7s. I’m hoping to purchase another one. Glad I didn’t return them.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> @gibosi
> 
> Awhile back I had purchased two tubes from the UK and one of them had an OSRAM BVA sticker. Designation under the sticker has it as 12SN7/B36. What’s a good guess in your experience on who the original manufacturer is? It has black ladder plates and sounds fantastic with the 6BX7s. I’m hoping to purchase another one. Glad I didn’t return them.



To my eyes it looks like a Philips 12SN7GT. Philips manufactured this tube at Endhoven, Holland, and Bruxelles, Belgium. Typically, the production code was printed on the bottom of the base between the pins.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> To my eyes it looks like a Philips 12SN7GT. Philips manufactured this tube at Endhoven, Holland, and Bruxelles, Belgium. Typically, the production code was printed on the bottom of the base between the pins.



Thanks @gibosi


----------



## mordy

Things move fast here, by I am trying to catch up.Here is another Osram BVA stickered tube:



It is a GEC A1834/6AS7G. Tried to imitate UT's tube glow picture, but even though these came from Stavros, they light up a little less:



The GEC 6AS7 has a lot of energy and sound beautiful with a luscious mid range as well as being extremely detailed with the Mullard ECC31.
But based on a short listen I find the Cetron 6336B/ECC31 more relaxing to listen to.
Both are top tier tube combinations in the GOTL. However, due to the expense and rarity of the GEC 6AS7 they will be reserved for a sunny Sunday afternoon drive, and I will use the 6336B as a daily driver (oops, I meant power).
I know people will tell me to just enjoy them and don't worry, but something is bothering me when listening - don't know exactly what.
Too much emphasis on detail?
Next: To try to revive a silent Raytheon 6336B that lights up but does not produce sound any more. I asked before for advice but nobody answered - any suggestions?


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> You had asked similar q before. Do You wanna a lot more gains? Can you use 6sl7?
> 
> If the answer is yes. You will be fine.



I've not ask about 12AT7 before. 

I've been using Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp for a good while now and it didn't sound much louder than a regular 6sn7. It's one of my fav tubes.

Amplification
6sn7 - 20
6SL7 - 70
12AT7 - 60
12AX7 - 100


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> yes the 12AT7 will be fine. Don't know how it will sound but sure it will sound good it is a good sounding tube.



Thanks Glenn. It is a very rare and well known tube but not sure if I want to chase more expensive tubes.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Thanks Glenn. It is a very rare and well known tube but not sure if I want to chase more expensive tubes.


Hi UT,
Did not know that I had such a rare tube:



A quick look at eBay shows a whole bunch of them for $10 and less.
Did you know that the red print on a Sylvania box means replacement tube?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Thanks Glenn. It is a very rare and well known tube but not sure if I want to chase more expensive tubes.



They are not expensive and not rare easy to get


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy, it's not just any 12AT7. The Valvo 6201 blue label gold pins are the rare ones.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, it's not just any 12AT7. The Valvo 6201 blue label gold pins are the rare ones.


Not familiar with that one, but I have heard of Johnny Walker Blue Label lol.


----------



## UntilThen

Correct. Not all Johnny Walker are the same.  Check out the 6201 Valvo blue label here.

http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/ECC81.htm


----------



## mordy

Seriously though, I would like to report on three patients successfully treated at MTRC that all seems to have regained full health:
Patient A (TS 6BGRP): Suffered from severe Hummings Disease. Treated with pressurized abdominal wrap and localized heat treatment.
After applying the wrap and two heat treatments totally free of symptoms.
Patient B: (Syl 6W) Suffered from Schizophrenia with periods of calm and then uncontrollable explosive outbursts and loud noisemaking. After three intensive heat treatments returned to normal behaviour.
Patient C: (TS Arcturus 12BGRP) Suffered from Kellog's Disease of Snap, Crackle and Pop. After three heat treatments with increasing heat, returned to normal.
Unfortunately, Patient D (Ray 6336) continues to baffle the staff. The patient looks perfectly normal and red, but refuses to talk. Heat treatments did not cause any improvement - as silent as before, although patient history indicates full recent control of all communicative facilities.
We will endeavour to consult with other specialists in the field to see if we can cure this (not so rare?) condition. 



.


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> You may be limited on one tube mode with headphones , depending on the headphone and how loud you listen.
> I can listen with one tube mode with my Ori, but I have the volume maxed out....it sounds nice.
> 
> With the HD800 and the Atticus I can listen between 2 and 3  o'clock
> ...



Thanks, whirlwind. Good info!


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I've not ask about 12AT7 before.
> 
> I've been using Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp for a good while now and it didn't sound much louder than a regular 6sn7. It's one of my fav tubes.
> 
> ...


Oops. My bad. Getting old?


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, it's not just any 12AT7. The Valvo 6201 blue label gold pins are the rare ones.


I agree. Go for it!


----------



## Phantaminum

`


mordy said:


> Things move fast here, by I am trying to catch up.Here is another Osram BVA stickered tube:
> 
> It is a GEC A1834/6AS7G. Tried to imitate UT's tube glow picture, but even though these came from Stavros, they light up a little less:
> 
> ...



I hear you on tubes complimenting each other. I've been jotting down tube combinations that zero in on the sound I enjoy. I found that I have an abundance of warm sounding tubes and in need of a few brighter tubes. The amp is just fantastic giving you the flexibility to tailor the sound the way you want it with different combinations.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> yes the 12AT7 will be fine. Don't know how it will sound but sure it will sound good it is a good sounding tube.


Good to hear. I have a lot of 12AT7s and variations, as my main mono amps take 4 of these (two in each amp). Looking forward to trying them out in the GOTL. One day...… 



UntilThen said:


> Thanks Glenn. It is a very rare and well known tube but not sure if I want to chase more expensive tubes.


You already have an amazing collection of tubes, and I'd hate to persuade you to part with more $'s... but I tend to mainly use GEC A2900 triple mica square getter aor GEC B309 four teeth mica tubes. For fun, I sometimes mix them up with my amps (i.e. 1 A2900 and 1 B309 in each). As with most tubes, the earlier the manufacture years the better. The 1970's A2900 and B309 GEC tubes are not as good as the earlier ones. They are easy to identify as the construction is different.

GEC are my favorite tubes, so I'm biased. I think they have the perfect balance between bass/treble/brightness/warmth, but, I do agree that on some tracks the detail can be too much. With my amps, I tame that a little by also using a warmer sounding early RCA 12AX7 or mid 1950's Mullard 12AX7 (later Mullards are too warm for my liking). The GEC late 1950's KT88 single top mica always stay put in my amps


----------



## gibosi (Oct 14, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Correct. Not all Johnny Walker are the same.  Check out the 6201 Valvo blue label here.
> 
> http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/ECC81.htm



In my experience the Valvo Hamburg sound is quite cool and thin. And therefore, before you chase after that one, I would encourage you to try some less expensive Hamburg-made tubes to see if you even like that sound.

(I don't have a Valvo 12AT7, so my understanding of this sound is derived from Hamburg-made E88CC, E80CC, ECC40 and AZ12.)


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 14, 2018)

gibosi said:


> To my eyes it looks like a Philips 12SN7GT. Philips manufactured this tube at Endhoven, Holland, and Bruxelles, Belgium. Typically, the production code was printed on the bottom of the base between the pins.



@gibosi

I've kept the tube in pretty much all day just enjoying music and how musical this particular tube is. But, after searching for Philips 12SN7s I just kept hitting different results on different constructions and wanted to make sure I educated myself on what I'm looking for.

After looking at the bottom as you requested I didn't find a Philips factory code. I put it aside for a moment while I kept going through my box of tubes and pulled out a RCA 12SX7. While I was looking at it a light bulb went off. I checked the Osram labeled tube and back to the RCA 12SX7 and they both look almost identical. I think what I have here is a RCA 12SN7 and not a Philips tube. They almost have the same build type except for a small variance of the D-Getter.

The Mullard (Philips) that I own has the D-getter bent out and down (vertical). The other two have the D-getter bent out and horizontal.

Left: Philips (Mullard label), Middle: RCA 12SX7, Right: Unsure (Osram label) with 12SN7 in a stop sign.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> @gibosi
> 
> I've kept the tube in pretty much all day just enjoying music and how musical this particular tube is. But, after searching for Philips 12SN7s I just kept hitting different results on different constructions and wanted to make sure I educated myself on what I'm looking for.
> 
> ...



I suspect you are correct. All my RCA and Philips 6SN7 have gray glass so it's hard to get a good view of the internal construction. So I missed the difference in the getters. And I also missed the fact that the Philips has teeth on the shorter ends of the bottom mica, whereas, the RCA and your GEC are smooth. 

And can I assume that the GEC sounds like your RCA?


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Leftside for recommending the Gec A2900. I found out about this tube while researching the Valvo 6201 blue label gold pins. Thanks Gibosi too on considering the cheaper options first but my mind is far from 12AT7 tubes and it's variants right now.

The adapters have arrived and it's time for the moon landing....


----------



## UntilThen

First the good news. It works with dual EL11 as drivers and Gec 6080 as power tubes. Works brilliantly.


----------



## UntilThen

Next dual EL11 as drivers and 2 x EL12 + 2 x EL12n as powers tubes. Brilliant !!! 

Glenn you should build an OTL amp to run these tubes. These German tubes sound amazing and they are not even burn in yet.


----------



## UntilThen

Next I tried dual EL11 as drivers and quad EL12 spez as power tubes. This is the bad news. Staccato fire sound spew from my headphones. Not good ! Not sure why because it's not the adapter or the EL12 spez tubes. The following 2 pictures will show why it's not the adapters or the EL12 spez tubes problem.


----------



## UntilThen

Dual Tesla EL12 spez as drivers and 2 x EL12 + 2 x EL12n as power tubes. This is even better. The Tesla tubes are cheap but amazing tone. I really like it. Bear in mind these are initial impressions of these tubes on the GOTL.

The best part is these tubes are quiet and well behaved. This surprised me because I have no such luck with these tubes on Elise but admittedly I did spend and got the best tubes for this trial.


----------



## UntilThen

Finally I'm settling on dual Telefunken EL12 spez as drivers and 2 x EL12 + 2 x EL12n as power tubes for the longer term listening. Going to let the tubes burn in good for 150 hours before I post any meaningful impressions.


----------



## UntilThen

My first thoughts are that GOTL with these tubes sound BIG ad BOLD. My LCD-2f takes on a different meaning.

It's like I'm listening to a JBL 4355.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Next I tried dual EL11 as drivers and quad EL12 spez as power tubes. This is the bad news. Staccato fire sound spew from my headphones. Not good ! Not sure why because it's not the adapter or the EL12 spez tubes. The following 2 pictures will show why it's not the adapters or the EL12 spez tubes problem.



I don't know what the problem was?  Maybe the tubes were oscillating don't know why.
What do you mean fire sound??


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Finally I'm settling on dual Telefunken EL12 spez as drivers and 2 x EL12 + 2 x EL12n as power tubes for the longer term listening. Going to let the tubes burn in good for 150 hours before I post any meaningful impressions.



That looks amazing and scary at the same time. Looks like it's a winner right off the bat from your description and the tubes haven't even been burned in.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> I suspect you are correct. All my RCA and Philips 6SN7 have gray glass so it's hard to get a good view of the internal construction. So I missed the difference in the getters. And I also missed the fact that the Philips has teeth on the shorter ends of the bottom mica, whereas, the RCA and your GEC are smooth.
> 
> And can I assume that the GEC sounds like your RCA?



The GEC (RCA) tube sounds a tad bit more refined but I've given the tube minimum of 40 hours so it's opened up compared to the RCA 12SX7 which still sounds a bit flabby. Personally I think they sound the same but it's a sad day for me (I over payed for a tube and need to educate myself more on construction types) and a good day being as the RCA 12SN7s are very cheap. I just purchased 3 of them for $30 and still have the 1633 smoked glass and the 12SX7. This should hold me over as day to day listening tubes and switch over to the more refined tubes on the weekend.


----------



## gibosi

Here, back on earth, I continue to sample the 2C51. lol 

Next up is a Western Electric 396A. Given their sky-high prices, it is likely that I will never own a pair of WE 421A output tubes or a WE 422A rectifier, so I can't help but wonder if this little 396A might provide a hint of the fabled Western Electric sound. Unfortunately, since I have no experience with the 421A and 422A, I really don't know, but I can say that this 396A sounds mighty good.


----------



## 2359glenn

Maybe a good deal.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-6336A-...307176?hash=item48b3ed1fe8:g:WicAAOSwhN5bt7di


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> The GEC (RCA) tube sounds a tad bit more refined but I've given the tube minimum of 40 hours so it's opened up compared to the RCA 12SX7 which still sounds a bit flabby. Personally I think they sound the same but it's a sad day for me (I over payed for a tube and need to educate myself more on construction types) and a good day being as the RCA 12SN7s are very cheap. I just purchased 3 of them for $30 and still have the 1633 smoked glass and the 12SX7. This should hold me over as day to day listening tubes and switch over to the more refined tubes on the weekend.



I had not seen RCA 6SN7/12SN7 relabeled as GEC before now, but I have seen Fivre, so one should be careful when purchasing this tube. While I believe the gray-glass metal-based tubes are definitely GEC, the clear glass versions are trickier. Personally, I won't buy a clear-glass GEC B36 or B65 unless I see these "umbrella" spokes hanging down from the top round mica. I think there might be a later GEC version without the spokes, but I am not sure. So again, I always go for the spokes.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> I had not seen RCA 6SN7/12SN7 relabeled as GEC before now, but I have seen Fivre, …


I also had Italian thoughts. 

One possibility, especially if a tube is very RCA-like, is ATES "RCA license".


rosgr63 said:


>


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I don't know what the problem was?  Maybe the tubes were oscillating don't know why.
> What do you mean fire sound??



It goes 'thud thud thud thud' like machine gun  That was using quad EL12 spez as power tubes.

Running dual EL11 as drivers now with 2 x EL11 + 2 x EL12 as power tubes. Beautiful sound. Mid range sounds full and opens up. Reminds me of the 300b tubes in WA5le that I heard.


----------



## UntilThen

You could use 3 of these dual EL3N adapters and run 6 EL3N tubes, similar to the above setup. That will work too. EL3N sounds warmer. EL11 and EL12 sounds clearer and airier. Less warm.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> You could use 3 of these dual EL3N adapters and run 6 EL3N tubes, similar to the above setup. That will work too. EL3N sounds warmer. EL11 and EL12 sounds clearer and airier. Less warm.
> Is there room for 6 EL12 tubes as power tubes?


----------



## mordy

IMHO the GOTL has enormous potential and I think that there are more tube possibilities that are worthy of exploring in addition to the great EL11/12 tubes, such as the EL32 which gets very high praise on the Euforia thread.
Just wish that the adapters were less expensive....


----------



## UntilThen

You wouldn't be using 6 EL12 as power tubes. It's either 4 or 8. Each power row of GOTL takes 4. There is room for 8 but just.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> IMHO the GOTL has enormous potential and I think that there are more tube possibilities that are worthy of exploring in addition to the great EL11/12 tubes, such as the EL32 which gets very high praise on the Euforia thread.
> Just wish that the adapters were less expensive....





Phantaminum said:


> That looks amazing and scary at the same time. Looks like it's a winner right off the bat from your description and the tubes haven't even been burned in.



It is amazing and scary. EL tube sound is a shift away from 6sn7 which sounds smaller and more precise. EL tube sounds bigger and more flesh out. I am trying to provide a very simplistic description of what I hear. It is not easy to describe tube sound.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It goes 'thud thud thud thud' like machine gun  That was using quad EL12 spez as power tubes.
> 
> Running dual EL11 as drivers now with 2 x EL11 + 2 x EL12 as power tubes. Beautiful sound. Mid range sounds full and opens up. Reminds me of the 300b tubes in WA5le that I heard.



When using the 2 tube to 6AS7 adapter you should have both the tubes the same.
It is not like putting different tubes in the row like a 6080 and a 6BL7 those the two sides are identical.   Here it is single tubes put together like a dual tube.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> When using the 2 tube to 6AS7 adapter you should have both the tubes the same.
> It is not like putting different tubes in the row like a 6080 and a 6BL7 those the two sides are identical.   Here it is single tubes put together like a dual tube.



Yes I am using one EL11 and one EL12 in the dual adapter at the moment but I don't hear any anomalies. 

As I don't have 4 EL12, I'll switch to running quad EL11s as power tubes. Using EL11s as drivers. So using 6 EL11s.


----------



## UntilThen

Here I have quad EL11 aligned in the 2nd row power slots. 2 x Philips Miniwatts EL11 and 2 x RFT EL11


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 15, 2018)

Now I have 6 EL11s running and it's just as powerful. Don't need 10 tubes. 6 tubes more than enough. Strange running 6 EL11 is louder than a mixture of EL11 and EL12. Now my volume is only at 9am. Previously it was at 11 am.

I've aligned the power tubes straight for a more streamlined look. 

The front 2 EL11 are Telefunkens.


----------



## mordy

You have all eyes on you:
How does it sound? And how does it compare to your best previous setup?

mordy
m17xr2b
Phantaminum
Xcalibur255
UntilThen
Oskari
2359glenn
pippen99


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> You have all eyes on you:
> How does it sound? And how does it compare to your best previous setup?



I'm oblivious of eyes on me. My ears are getting more than a earful. 

Glenn gave a very important pointer - using same type tubes in the one dual adapter. 6 EL11 now sounds powerful, clear, stunningly flesh out. It's got the ooomph. I love it. I've forgotten about my best previous setup. This EL11 tubes sounds dazzling and mesmerising.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm confused.


----------



## mordy

Did a cursory inventory - must like the EL11, EL12N and EL12 tubes. I have a bunch of EL11, EL12N and EL12 (No EL12 Spez).
The EL12 is very temperamental but the others are no problem. 
Telefunken sounds the best - there is Philips,Valvo, Loewe-Opta and Tungsram, among others.
Most are ST tubes except for the 12N (and an EL11 TFK variant) and cool running.


----------



## m17xr2b

@mordy, I don't have the glenn OTL but I enjoy the tube rolling talk. Still I'll hold off for as long as I can but I know eventually I'll order one with SS rectification. Currently I have the Teton with 422A/GEC 6AS7G/ECC32 and it's the combo I would try first on the glenn minus the rectifier. The 6AS7G/6080 tubes I've acquired need to be put to work at some point as I'm not rolling tubes in the Teton anymore (except for the input from time to time based on my mood). My other amp is the DNA Stellaris(SET).


----------



## mordy

Hi m1,
Is this the one?


----------



## UntilThen

m17xr2b said:


> @mordy, I don't have the glenn OTL but I enjoy the tube rolling talk. Still I'll hold off for as long as I can but I know eventually I'll order one with SS rectification. Currently I have the Teton with 422A/GEC 6AS7G/ECC32 and it's the combo I would try first on the glenn minus the rectifier. The 6AS7G/6080 tubes I've acquired need to be put to work at some point as I'm not rolling tubes in the Teton anymore (except for the input from time to time based on my mood). My other amp is the DNA Stellaris(SET).



You have a lot of nice headphone amps. Similar to @jelt2359 and he both the Glenn OTL and Glenn EL3N amp as well, in addition to the Teton.


----------



## mordy

Hi m17,
What are you waiting for? The GOTL can drive all your headphones and is very reasonably priced, especially compared to other gear.


----------



## m17xr2b

That's the one, there is only one Teton, trying the B65 tonight but it's just too focused compared to the ECC32, impressive but no cigar. Would kill to be able to run 12V tubes in it. I was lucky enough to get a 13D2 based on the impressions from glenn and I agree it's exquisite if the 12V and 25V version sounds the same.


----------



## m17xr2b

The thing is I don't need another amp, but once I get used to the Stellaris and I'm done doing final tuning on my system I'll jump on it just for the experience. I've had most of the heavy hitters but this is the only one that draws me in a way I can't explain. Could be the simplicity and that I can try all sorts of cheap tubes in ridiculous combinations. Plus two 6528A would look amazing.


----------



## mordy

m17xr2b said:


> The thing is I don't need another amp, but once I get used to the Stellaris and I'm done doing final tuning on my system I'll jump on it just for the experience. I've had most of the heavy hitters but this is the only one that draws me in a way I can't explain. Could be the simplicity and that I can try all sorts of cheap tubes in ridiculous combinations. Plus two 6528A would look amazing.


Hi m17,
You get the same amazing look with a pair 6336B as the 6528A, but the 6336B may be a better match for the amp. The multiplication factor for the the 6528 compared to the 6336 is 9.5/2.7.
The higher multiplication factor may accentuate noise from the driver tube - otherwise both tubes should perform similarly.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Now I have 6 EL11s running and it's just as powerful. Don't need 10 tubes. 6 tubes more than enough. Strange running 6 EL11 is louder than a mixture of EL11 and EL12. Now my volume is only at 9am. Previously it was at 11 am.
> 
> I've aligned the power tubes straight for a more streamlined look.
> 
> The front 2 EL11 are Telefunkens.



You are crazy but if it sounds good maybe a good idea.
So how is the sound of all EL11s??  Is it worth the cost of the adapters?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You are crazy but if it sounds good maybe a good idea.
> So how is the sound of all EL11s??  Is it worth the cost of the adapters?



Definitely worth experimenting and getting the adapters. Really only need 3 dual EL11 to 6sn7 adapters. I got the dual EL12 spez to 6sn7 adapters to try out the EL12 spez tubes and they work fine as drivers. It's only when using quad EL12 spez as power tubes that I get scary sound out of my headphones.

I can only compare the sound of 6 EL11 with 6 EL3N, the latter when I was using it on Elise. I know different amps, not necessary same tone. As I recalled, all EL3Ns sounded warmer which in a way is good but I prefer all EL11 in GOTL now. It's sweet and clear. Details are much better. Tube warm is just ideal. A very good tone.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Definitely worth experimenting and getting the adapters. Really only need 3 dual EL11 to 6sn7 adapters. I got the dual EL12 spez to 6sn7 adapters to try out the EL12 spez tubes and they work fine as drivers. It's only when using quad EL12 spez as power tubes that I get scary sound out of my headphones.
> 
> I can only compare the sound of 6 EL11 with 6 EL3N, the latter when I was using it on Elise. I know different amps, not necessary same tone. As I recalled, all EL3Ns sounded warmer which in a way is good but I prefer all EL11 in GOTL now. It's sweet and clear. Details are much better. Tube warm is just ideal. A very good tone.



UT - 

You said earlier that you spent $300 on adapters...

Was that AUD or USD?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Definitely worth experimenting and getting the adapters. Really only need 3 dual EL11 to 6sn7 adapters. I got the dual EL12 spez to 6sn7 adapters to try out the EL12 spez tubes and they work fine as drivers. It's only when using quad EL12 spez as power tubes that I get scary sound out of my headphones.
> 
> I can only compare the sound of 6 EL11 with 6 EL3N, the latter when I was using it on Elise. I know different amps, not necessary same tone. As I recalled, all EL3Ns sounded warmer which in a way is good but I prefer all EL11 in GOTL now. It's sweet and clear. Details are much better. Tube warm is just ideal. A very good tone.


.
Cool
Might have to try something.
My amp is old 10 years and only has 2 output tube sockets.  I am switching the #27 drivers to 6J5 they are 1/2 a 6SN7 and I just got two GEC L63 VT-154 6J5.
Also a little different and a lot bigger lots of chokes the filaments of all tubes run on DC for total silence. Ways a tun steel top plate to shield magnetic field.
Went crazy who in there right mind would run 5 amp 6336s on DC
Wanted to get a pair of GEC 6AS7s to go with them but almost impossible to find.  I have to be on the look out and take my time.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 15, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> UT -
> 
> You said earlier that you spent $300 on adapters...
> 
> Was that AUD or USD?



AUD mate.

They are US $37 each.


----------



## felix3650

UT

Quite the bold step there. Congrats on the achievement 
How do you find the bass compared to the 6x6BX7 + other drivers?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Look Ma....no hands!!

No wait, It's Yo-Yo Ma and the Silk Road Ensemble playing "Kor Arab" (The Blind Arab)...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Neil Young's "Harvest Moon"...

Great song....for a couple of interesting covers, check out:

Cassandra Wilson's cover. On her 
And
The Ed Palermo Big Band...they do a wonderful cover, too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

If you love Acoustic Guitar....


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 16, 2018)

felix3650 said:


> UT
> 
> Quite the bold step there. Congrats on the achievement
> How do you find the bass compared to the 6x6BX7 + other drivers?



I'm pleased that 6 EL11s is very quiet and cool running. I spend last night listening again for a few hours. The time just goes by so quickly. It's enjoyable listening to GOTL with these tubes and I'm using HD800. I'll have to post differences with other power tubes later.

Listening to Fourplay - Heartfelt album.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes Mordy. Everything is fine. I was a little tired from staying up listening the previous night.

6 EL11s sounds very good. It's obviously different from ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7gt. Both sound gorgeous on GOTL but the EL11s is a new sound that I'm still captivated and getting used to, plus letting the tubes burn in.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> 6 EL11s sounds very good. It's obviously different from ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7gt. Both sound gorgeous on GOTL but the EL11s is a new sound that I'm still captivated and getting used to, plus letting the tubes burn in.



Awesome, looking forward to hearing more about the sound, once you get all the nuances clarified...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Went ahead and ordered the dual EL8->6SN7 adapter from Mrs Ling in China.   The description by @rnros and the "layers of detail" all living in their own space, was enough to push me over the edge  

The pair of EL8's themselves have been lingering in NYC for a few days, hope they giddy-up, and head my way soon, so that I can pine over the adapters' arrival.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> I'm pleased that 6 EL11s is very quiet and cool running. I spend last night listening again for a few hours. The time just goes by so quickly. It's enjoyable listening to GOTL with these tubes and I'm using HD800. I'll have to post differences with other power tubes later.
> 
> Listening to Fourplay - Heartfelt album.





JazzVinyl said:


> Went ahead and ordered the dual EL8->6SN7 adapter from Mrs Ling in China.   The description by @rnros and the "layers of detail" all living in their own space, was enough to push me over the edge
> 
> The pair of EL8's themselves have been lingering in NYC for a few days, hope they giddy-up, and head my way soon, so that I can pine over the adapters' arrival.



Keep your impressions coming guys. This thread is one of my go-to almost daily now


----------



## UntilThen

After 2 and a half nights of listening to 6 EL11s, I make myself roll in the ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7gt again. Just to get a feel for the difference.

6bx7s are more vivid, transparent, more dynamic and a sharper tone. This is coming immediately from a few days with EL11s. Quite a contrast.

EL11s has the layers, density of tone, more saturated and more comforting with HD800. Superb imaging and clarity. Compared to the 6bx7s, it's warmer - which suits the HD800 very well.

That's all I have to report for now. My EL11 tubes are about to be rolled in again. I'm very drawn to it now.


----------



## 2359glenn

Now I don't know if I want to try them?

UT have you talked to JV about using C3G's and a 6SN7 type at the same time.
He said it sounds better then ether one buy itself.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I am using Ken-Rad VT-231 and the C3g's for drivers...and Tung-Sol 5998 for powers...SENN 580's like this better than SENN 650's, so it may, or may not suit your headphones.

I get:  Bass Plus, with the C3g details....

I like it!


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 17, 2018)

Day off, sitting down with coffee, a small pound cake while listening to GOTL.

I usually don't post any type of music I listen to since it's all over the map. It'll swing from Frank Sinatra to Aretha Franklin, then to Michael Jackson, sprinkled in with John Mayer, some Taylor Swift, Daft Punk and I'll end up with Wu-Tang.

I'm really digging Bondax's new album.  They're an eclectic duo from the UK and have different styles so it'll go from atmospheric to vocal acoustical and then into rap. A bit like my tastes, lol. Their song *What You Do *is fantastic with lots of guitars, instruments, and smooth jazzy vocals.





Paired now with a Fivre 12SN7:


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> Day off, sitting down with coffee, a small pound cake while listening to GOTL.
> 
> I usually don't post any type of music I listen to since it's all over the map. It'll swing from Frank Sinatra to Aretha Franklin, then to Michael Jackson, sprinkled in with John Mayer, some Taylor Swift, Daft Punk and I'll end up with Wu-Tang.
> 
> I'm really digging Bondax's new album.  They're an eclectic duo from the UK and have different styles so it'll go from atmospheric to vocal acoustical and then into rap. A bit like my tastes, lol. Their song *What You Do *is fantastic with lots of guitars, instruments, and smooth jazzy vocal



Hello Phantaminum...

Listened you your suggested "What You Do"...

I have a lot of 'World Beat" genre, that sounds very similar.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 17, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Now I don't know if I want to try them?
> 
> UT have you talked to JV about using C3G's and a 6SN7 type at the same time.
> He said it sounds better then ether one buy itself.



Try it anyway. EL11's is a very good tone.

I didn't know you can use both 6sn7 and c3gs at the same time. That will have to happen at a later stage.

I'm listening to Archie Shepp Quartet - Blue Ballads. Piano, trumpets and drums.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 17, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Try it anyway. EL11's is a very good tone.
> 
> I didn't know you can use both 6sn7 and c3gs at the same time. That will have to happen at a later stage.
> 
> I'm listening to Archie Shepp Quartet - Blue Ballads. Piano, trumpets and drums.



Excellent musical selection!  Pretty sure Shepp played Sax


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Phantaminum...
> 
> Listened you your suggested "What You Do"...
> 
> I have a lot of 'World Beat" genre, that sounds very similar.



Hey JV,

If you have any recommendations for World Beat please share. I love to explore new music!


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I'm pleased that 6 EL11s is very quiet and cool running. I spend last night listening again for a few hours. The time just goes by so quickly. It's enjoyable listening to GOTL with these tubes and I'm using HD800. I'll have to post differences with other power tubes later.
> 
> Listening to Fourplay - Heartfelt album.



Hi UT,
Enjoyed reading your notes on the EL11s. 
Any comparative impressions on the three different labels you have of the EL11s?
I understand that the plate structures differ by brand. I assume the sound also.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> Hey JV,
> 
> If you have any recommendations for World Beat please share. I love to explore new music!



Try:  Mickey Hart "At The Edge" and I love all the Jai Uttal albums...


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Excellent musical selection!  Pretty sure Shepp played Sax



Ah ya it’s sax not trumpet hehehe.

I am big time fan now. Both True Ballad and Blue Ballard are very good.... on the EL11s


----------



## UntilThen

Here’s another.

Ginger Baker Trio - Going Back Home album.


----------



## mordy

Hi rnros,
I have a collection of EL11 tubes - 17 tubes. Valvo, Loewe-Opta, RFT, Philips and Telefunken. All are ST shaped with the exception of one pair of TFK tubular tubes. All are fairly large, but one Loewe-Opta is a smaller ST type.
I have not heard them in the GOTL, but in the FA amps the Telefunken ST EL11 sounded the best. That seems to be the overall consensus, also regarding the EL12 tubes.
In my experience the Telefunken EL11 tubes were the best sounding.
On the other hand, the GOTL is a different amp, and maybe another brand will shine there.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Yo Glenn-a-nites-

I just bought 6 6bx7’s and I  want  to get the proper adaptors for it.

I didn’t know what they were asking in regards to this option.... any help will  be appreciated!

I think this is correct?



Thanks friends


----------



## mordy

MTMECraig said:


> Yo Glenn-a-nites-
> 
> I just bought 6 6bx7’s and I  want  to get the proper adaptors for it.
> 
> ...


What kind of amp do you want to use the 6BX7 tubes in?
I have a six strip adapter for external power for the Feliks Audio Elise/Euforia but it will only fit those two amps:




https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...h=item2ca8ed3fda:g:FEYAAOSwG-1WzSQL:rk:7:pf:0


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

mordy said:


> What kind of amp do you want to use the 6BX7 tubes in?
> I have a six strip adapter for external power for the Feliks Audio Elise/Euforia but it will only fit those two amps:
> 
> 
> ...


I got the Glenn OTL 4 socket


----------



## mordy

MTMECraig said:


> I got the Glenn OTL 4 socket


You have to take the measurements of the adapters and see if they fit - also order the ones that you can rotate in the sockets.
I am not familiar with the specs of your amp; it has to be able to handle the total current draw.
Perhaps Gibosi has a similar amp and can advise you.


----------



## 2359glenn

MTMECraig said:


> Yo Glenn-a-nites-
> 
> I just bought 6 6bx7’s and I  want  to get the proper adaptors for it.
> 
> ...



Can you send a link to this adapter?
You don't need external power for filaments you have plenty of power in your amp.
Also they should be adjustable so they can be turned on the base to allow them to fit.

(Should have paid the extra $100 for the 6 sockets)


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Hi UT,
> Enjoyed reading your notes on the EL11s.
> Any comparative impressions on the three different labels you have of the EL11s?
> I understand that the plate structures differ by brand. I assume the sound also.



Ros, I love them all. RFT, Philips Miniwatt and Telefunkens. However I have only use them together.

BUT tonight I told myself that Glenn has planted this idea of using c3gs with 6sn7 as drivers, so I am going to try it. So I debated on using c3gs with the dual RFT EL11s as drivers. It's either I blow up Ulysses or make him sing !

And the result? Holy @#$%. This amp just got better by a mile. What have you created Glenn? Why didn't you tell me that we can use c3gs with 6sn7.

So I was listening to Jeff Beck sing 'A Change is Gonna Come' and I believe him 100% !  GOTL has just change before my eyes and ears. 

Can you see the pair of c3gs sandwiched between the EL11s?


----------



## UntilThen

I'd speculate that switching EL11s with EL3Ns and c3gs in the above combinations would make for a splendid tone.


----------



## whirlwind

I had no idea that you could use three driver tubes at the same time either.

I thought it was one or the other....maybe I am misunderstanding something.
The C3g's are my favorite driver tubes and I can only imagine the dynamics and slam when adding a Ken Rad to the mix!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

2359glenn said:


> Can you send a link to this adapter?
> You don't need external power for filaments you have plenty of power in your amp.
> Also they should be adjustable so they can be turned on the base to allow them to fit.
> 
> (Should have paid the extra $100 for the 6 sockets)


Hindsight’s 20/20 Glenn!!
(But yeah you’re right.... lol)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...cket type:Rotatable socket&varId=500725372688


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 18, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Ros, I love them all. RFT, Philips Miniwatt and Telefunkens. However I have only use them together.
> 
> BUT tonight I told myself that Glenn has planted this idea of using c3gs with 6sn7 as drivers, so I am going to try it. So I debated on using c3gs with the dual RFT EL11s as drivers. It's either I blow up Ulysses or make him sing !
> 
> ...




Wow! That is a bunch of tubes UT....LOL!
I am guessing the sound would even be bumped up a notch with power output transformers.

The C3g and 6SN7 drivers really excites me.  Did Glenn say this is fine to do ?

Much calmer set-up here this morning...I am off work today so I will be getting in some listening today.



Listening to the John Mayall 70th Birthday Bash with friends......highly recommended...great stuff.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> The C3g and 6SN7 drivers really excites me.  Did Glenn say this is fine to do ?



Hello Joe....
I tried it initially, and thought it was great, kept my own eye on "driver heat", seemed fine.  I told Mordy who asked Glenn if it was okay to do.  

Then Glenn walked me through taking the bottom off the amp and inspecting a couple of resistors, that might have gotten too warm using "driver triplets", as I call it.  Also ran driver triplets with the bottom off for an hour and inspected the heat situation,  

All was well and Glenn approves using C3g + SN7.

  

PS - my fave combo is Ken-Rad VT-231 + C3g and a pair of 5998's for powers.  I found 6BX7's to be too much gain, since you have so much driver gain.  Sounded good but can barely turn the volume pot before too loud. Did not love 6080 or 6H13C as powers either.  Senn 580 likes this better than Senn 650.  So each piece of the puzzle needs to be considered when trying Driver Triplets.

Cheers!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Joe....
> I tried it initially, and thought it was great, kept my own eye on "driver heat", seemed fine.  I told Mordy who asked Glenn if it was okay to do.
> 
> Then Glenn walked me through taking the bottom off the amp and inspecting a couple of resistors, that might have gotten too warm using "driver triplets", as I call it.  Also ran driver triplets with the bottom off for an hour and inspected the heat situation,
> ...


The credit for discovering triple drivers in the GOTL goes to JV.
IMHO we have only begun to scratch the surface of all the potential that the GOTL has......
I am waiting for someone to try the EL32 tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I debated on using c3gs with the dual RFT EL11s as drivers. It's either I blow up Ulysses or make him sing !
> 
> And the result? Holy @#$%. This amp just got better by a mile. What have you created Glenn? Why didn't you tell me that we can use c3gs with 6sn7.



Exciting news!  I can't wait to try a pair of EL8's plus C3g's (in a couple three weeks).


----------



## 2359glenn

MTMECraig said:


> Hindsight’s 20/20 Glenn!!
> (But yeah you’re right.... lol)
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-tube-converter-adapter-for-3-6BL7-instead-6AS7-6080-/201533519050?skus=6AS7/6080 heat wire typein7/8 Disconnect from external power supply|6AS7/6080 Male socket type:Rotatable socket&varId=500725372688



Yes that is the wright one. Just order it rotatable and run filaments off amps internal transformer.
This should work fine


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Wow! That is a bunch of tubes UT....LOL!
> I am guessing the sound would even be bumped up a notch with power output transformers.



The sound is pretty bumped up. I've since removed the c3gs in the mix as I prefer the tone with just EL11s.

It does opens up the possibilities of even more tube rolling. Good work on the discovery JV.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

2359glenn said:


> Yes that is the wright one. Just order it rotatable and run filaments off amps internal transformer.
> This should work fine



Thanks so much Glenn! I buy them when I get home


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


>



That’s really very interesting JV! I didn’t know you could run c3gs and have a 6sn7 or equivalent driver tube all at the same time. This has given me a good idea.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes that is the wright one. Just order it rotatable and run filaments off amps internal transformer.
> This should work fine



Do not rotate the adapters too much. Slight adjustments allowed and should do.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Do not rotate the adapters too much. Slight adjustments allowed and should do.


Something nice just happened to my GOTL - it suddenly sounds much better than before. It sounds more engaging and lively with more energy.  As if it got vitaminized (just made up that word - think caffeine).
Don't know why - I am running a Mullard ECC31 that should have been burnt in and a pair of Cetron 6336B. Could be that the heavy duty Cetron tubes with the heavy graphite plates reached some kind of new level of burn-in.
I am sure than anybody who is passionate about tube amps has experienced such moments - everything suddenly has reached a new sustainable level of musicality etc.
Have fun!
PS: Just checked - the word vitaminized does exist and I didn't make it up LOL.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Much calmer set-up here this morning...



Looking at the picture of your EL3N amp makes me think that I'm slowly transitioning to the likes of EL3N, 2A3 tube amps because I really love what I hear from the EL11s in the OTL amp.

By way of analogy, where the 6bx7s sounds like my super monitor speakers, the EL11s sounds like my big tower speakers. Today is the 5th night I'm listening to the EL11s. Listening to Pink Floyd 'The Wall' album for sheer impact, bass weight, texture, the grand scale projected by the songs is breathtaking. Tonight being a Friday night, I'm savouring a long night of music listening with the EL11s.

My Millennium Falcon is here to stay.


----------



## gibosi

While much less exciting than EL8s and EL11s, I hope that there might be at least one or two here who are interested in 2C51/396A/5670. I have finished rolling Sylvania, Bendix and Western Electric production, and of these three, I prefer the Western Electric. The tone is very balanced and I especially like that the head-stage is wide and deep.

And for those who roll tube rectifiers, I found the GEC U18/20 to be a bit too airy and thin, but the Cossor 53KU, Mullard GZ32 and the Holland-made GZ34 are all very good. Currently, I have the GZ34 installed with Tung-Sol 6BX7, and I figure to keep this configuration in the amp for the time being.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 20, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Looking at the picture of your EL3N amp makes me think that I'm slowly transitioning to the likes of EL3N, 2A3 tube amps because I really love what I hear from the EL11s in the OTL amp.
> 
> By way of analogy, where the 6bx7s sounds like my super monitor speakers, the EL11s sounds like my big tower speakers. Today is the 5th night I'm listening to the EL11s. Listening to Pink Floyd 'The Wall' album for sheer impact, bass weight, texture, the grand scale projected by the songs is breathtaking. Tonight being a Friday night, I'm savouring a long night of music listening with the EL11s.
> 
> My Millennium Falcon is here to stay.



That is a great analogy UT, and what a fantastic album to listen to...Pink Floyd - The Wall  

It is pretty awesome to have an amp that can use so many wonderful tubes. I have pretty much used my EL3N amp exclusively for quite a while, but I am sure once I receive my new OTL amp
that I will be back to rolling a few tubes again, but probably nothing like in the past.

The GS-X MKII has also been on my radar and it is the only SS amp that has ever really gotten my attention....not sure where that will go...lol.

I really do believe that Glenn's amps are the best bang for the buck in head-fi...built to last a life time and the tone is to die for IMO.

I have not bought any new tubes for quite some time, I have spent some money completing my listening room and am quite enjoying it.
Here is the completed concert posters on the walls.

I will probably spend the rest of my days rolling headphones.

You have gotten me in the mood for some Pink Floyd, so I think I will listen to the Animals album.
It is another great Floyd album to listen to with your Millennium Falcon, as well as just about any of their albums.

Hope you enjoyed your long session of listening last night, and keep posting your impressions, I for one love reading them.

By the way...Billy Gibbons new album..."The Big Bad Blues' is well worth a listen.


----------



## UntilThen

Joe, love your room ! The ceiling fan will keep you cool with all that nice gear there.  Love the posters too. Well done. I need to revamp my listening room too. 

I have the Animals albums. I think I played it once after buying it. Will have to listen to it in the lounge stereo system. Am listening to the digital version now. It's good with the EL11s. After 30 hours, these tubes are sounding even better. There's the 'body' in the tone and the clarity is starting to shine through. It's transformed the HD800, putting meaty flesh to the bones. Good stuff.

Billy Gibbons .... can't forget the hard hitting 'Perfectamundo' album.  Listening to the 'Big Bad Blues' album now. Good change after a few hours of listening to jazz.

Rolling headphones is great. Saw that ZMF has the new Verite now, with the really lovely looking wood. Nice.

Good luck with the GS-X MkII. It could be the ss amp to complete your setup. This hobby can cost a fair bit of money.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

whirlwind said:


> That is a great analogy UT, and what a fantastic album to listen to...Pink Floyd - The Wall
> 
> It is pretty awesome to have an amp that can use so many wonderful tubes. I have pretty much used my EL3N amp exclusively for quite a while, but I am sure once I receive my new OTL amp
> that I will be back to rolling a few tubes again, but probably nothing like in the past.
> ...



The room is looking great Joe. I guess one of these days will have make a road trip up to see it. I am going get the Verite from Zach after hearing them at RMAF out of this Glenn. Glenn says just couple weeks and mine will be here.

I will check out the new Billy Gibbons album on Tidal.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Joe, love your room ! The ceiling fan will keep you cool with all that nice gear there.  Love the posters too. Well done. I need to revamp my listening room too.
> 
> I have the Animals albums. I think I played it once after buying it. Will have to listen to it in the lounge stereo system. Am listening to the digital version now. It's good with the EL11s. After 30 hours, these tubes are sounding even better. There's the 'body' in the tone and the clarity is starting to shine through. It's transformed the HD800, putting meaty flesh to the bones. Good stuff.
> 
> ...




Thanks UT.

The Perfectamundo album has a hard hitting bass to go along with the overall Cuban flavor.
I just imagine those EL11 tubes will get better the longer they burn.


----------



## whirlwind

FunctionalDoc said:


> The room is looking great Joe. I guess one of these days will have make a road trip up to see it. I am going get the Verite from Zach after hearing them at RMAF out of this Glenn. Glenn says just couple weeks and mine will be here.
> 
> I will check out the new Billy Gibbons album on Tidal.




Thank Rick.
I can imagine that you are getting quite excited to receive your amp.  I look forward to seeing some pictures and hearing your impressions. Two weeks will be here before you know it.

So you have already heard the Verite out of Glenn's OTL....very nice!

You will be getting a new amp and new cans...big congrats on that sir.

I see on Zach's website that his new cans, the first batch have sold out already. I would imagine they sound as good as they look.

Would love to have you come up again, you are always welcome,.....just be sure to bring those new cans  and to let me know a bit in advance so I will be sure to be here.


----------



## attmci (Oct 20, 2018)

gibosi said:


> While much less exciting than EL8s and EL11s, I hope that there might be at least one or two here who are interested in 2C51/396A/5670. I have finished rolling Sylvania, Bendix and Western Electric production, and of these three, I prefer the Western Electric. The tone is very balanced and I especially like that the head-stage is wide and deep.
> 
> And for those who roll tube rectifiers, I found the GEC U18/20 to be a bit too airy and thin, but the Cossor 53KU, Mullard GZ32 and the Holland-made GZ34 are all very good. Currently, I have the GZ34 installed with Tung-Sol 6BX7, and I figure to keep this configuration in the amp for the time being.


That little guy is so powerful(gz34). And should last forever if you don't drop it.


----------



## attmci

Any person like clear top 5998 needs one of this.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Color-Ri...MIk5D19oaV3gIVDlYNCh0JhQFoEAYYASABEgIxsfD_BwE


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> Any person like clear top 5998 needs one of this.
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Color-Ri...MIk5D19oaV3gIVDlYNCh0JhQFoEAYYASABEgIxsfD_BwE



Makes them nice and they shine.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> That is a great analogy UT, and what a fantastic album to listen to...Pink Floyd - The Wall
> 
> It is pretty awesome to have an amp that can use so many wonderful tubes. I have pretty much used my EL3N amp exclusively for quite a while, but I am sure once I receive my new OTL amp
> that I will be back to rolling a few tubes again, but probably nothing like in the past.
> ...




Great job on the posters, Joe!!

Looking good!


----------



## FunctionalDoc

whirlwind said:


> Thank Rick.
> I can imagine that you are getting quite excited to receive your amp.  I look forward to seeing some pictures and hearing your impressions. Two weeks will be here before you know it.
> 
> So you have already heard the Verite out of Glenn's OTL....very nice!
> ...



No none of the new headphones are sold out . They go on sale on November 16th.


----------



## whirlwind

FunctionalDoc said:


> No none of the new headphones are sold out . They go on sale on November 16th.



My bad, I thought I seen where it said sold out....sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> That is a great analogy UT, and what a fantastic album to listen to...Pink Floyd - The Wall
> 
> It is pretty awesome to have an amp that can use so many wonderful tubes. I have pretty much used my EL3N amp exclusively for quite a while, but I am sure once I receive my new OTL amp
> that I will be back to rolling a few tubes again, but probably nothing like in the past.
> ...



The room looks so inviting and comfy WW! Love the musical posters. Glenn amps on the table and ready to rock.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> While much less exciting than EL8s and EL11s, I hope that there might be at least one or two here who are interested in 2C51/396A/5670. I have finished rolling Sylvania, Bendix and Western Electric production, and of these three, I prefer the Western Electric. The tone is very balanced and I especially like that the head-stage is wide and deep.
> 
> And for those who roll tube rectifiers, I found the GEC U18/20 to be a bit too airy and thin, but the Cossor 53KU, Mullard GZ32 and the Holland-made GZ34 are all very good. Currently, I have the GZ34 installed with Tung-Sol 6BX7, and I figure to keep this configuration in the amp for the time being.



I’ll give the 2c51s variants a try today. I have several Russian 6n3ps I love and several US version of the tubes. I enjoyed the 6n3ps more but you could not beat how wide the WE 396As sound. Cavernous.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> I’ll give the 2c51s variants a try today. I have several Russian 6n3ps I love and several US version of the tubes. I enjoyed the 6n3ps more but you could not beat how wide the WE 396As sound. Cavernous.



I haven't tried any of the 6n3p. I assume that these were manufactured in more than one factory... which ones do you recommend I get?


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 20, 2018)

gibosi said:


> I haven't tried any of the 6n3p. I assume that these were manufactured in more than one factory... which ones do you recommend I get?



I’ll go through my tubes today and let you know which ones are my favorites. Right off the bat the Foton triple mica 6n3ps were fantastic but they’re now are hard to find.

Edit: AuditoryCanvas has acquired and tested several batches of Russian tubes. Great seller and they are priced very reasonable. Most of my Russian tubes were purchased from him.


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 20, 2018)

@gibosi

Here’s the Foton Triple Mica 6n3p. It’s a fantastic tube that puts meat on music. The only drawback would be that the bass may not be tight but it’s impactful. While music the music may sound slightly bloated; other instruments take up space and come through without any issue. It’s very good at pulling out micro detail, having textured notes, while still having a full sound.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> @gibosi
> 
> Here’s the Foton Triple Mica 6n3p. It’s a fantastic tube that puts meat on music. The only drawback would be that the bass may not be tight but it’s impactful. While music the music may sound slightly bloated; other instruments take up space and come through without any issue. It’s very good at pulling out micro detail, having textured notes, while still having a full sound.



Thanks for the recommendation. Will keep an eye out for a Foton Triple Mica 6n3p. Even if they are hard to find, I am in no hurry. And after all, many would say that the last thing I need is more tubes. lol 

And I took a quick look at what AuditoryCanvas currently has for sale, but since I have zero experience with the 6N3P, will hold off until I learn more.

Thanks again!


----------



## mordy (Oct 21, 2018)

Has anybody tried using dual 6AK5 tubes in a 6SN7 socket? I see that one such adapter is available.
The reason I am asking is since I have some 200 6AK5/EF95/5654 etc etc tubes that I am not using.
Is there any good reason to try these as driver tubes?
I should really ask Gibosi since I know that you have lot of these "peanut" tubes......


----------



## UntilThen

One of my 'NOS' EL11 died and I had to fall back on EL12 as power tubes until I get another EL11. Same majestic scale but more power. Volume no more than 10am.

These EL11 and EL12 sounds so good on the GOTL. I think I had a glimpse of what the GEL3N sounds like and I reckon I would like that too.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Has anybody tried using dual 6AK5 tubes in a 6SN7 socket? I see that one such adapter is available.
> The reason I am asking is since I have some 200 6AK5/EF95/5654 etc etc tubes that I am not using.
> Is there any good reason to try these as driver tubes?
> I should really ask Gibosi since I know that you have lot of these "peanut" tubes......



6AK5 for audio why???? This is a RF pentode for VHF/UHF amplifier. I have a HH-Scott FM tuner with this tube as the fm RF amp at 88 to 108 Mhz.
I don't know it might sound OK but I wouldn't use it. With a adapter with long leads that tube can osculate at high frequency and you wouldn't know it.
Maybe you would know it when your headphones burned out being over driven by high frequency that you cant here.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> One of my 'NOS' EL11 died and I had to fall back on EL12 as power tubes until I get another EL11. Same majestic scale but more power. Volume no more than 10am.
> 
> These EL11 and EL12 sounds so good on the GOTL. I think I had a glimpse of what the GEL3N sounds like and I reckon I would like that too.


Do you guys have same issue with the EL11 on FA? This is too early for a NOS tube went south. 

You should get a GEL3N instead of doing this kind of DLevi things..............


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> Do you guys have same issue with the EL11 on FA? This is too early for a NOS tube went south.
> 
> You should get a GEL3N instead of doing this kind of DLevi things..............



Just a bad tube nothing they are doing would damage the tube in any way.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Just a bad tube nothing they are doing would damage the tube in any way.


U mean the amp. Sure. It's their amp. 

Time to try some 5998s? Come on.


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> U mean the amp. Sure. It's their amp.
> 
> Time to try some 5998s? Come on.



I mean the amp would not damage the tube he just has a bad one


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> 6AK5 for audio why???? This is a RF pentode for VHF/UHF amplifier. I have a HH-Scott FM tuner with this tube as the fm RF amp at 88 to 108 Mhz.
> I don't know it might sound OK but I wouldn't use it. With a adapter with long leads that tube can osculate at high frequency and you wouldn't know it.
> Maybe you would know it when your headphones burned out being over driven by high frequency that you cant here.


Hi Glenn,
The reason why I have the 6AK5 en masse is because my tube odyssey started with a Little Dot MKIII amp that uses these tubes as drivers. There must be thousands of owners of this little amp that use them.
But I will certainly listen to your advice and not use them in the GOTL.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
Looks like you are using two EL12 and two EL12N as power tubes now. Is the sound different than using EL11?


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Do you guys have same issue with the EL11 on FA? This is too early for a NOS tube went south.
> 
> You should get a GEL3N instead of doing this kind of DLevi things..............


Hi attmci,
I never had any problems with the EL11 tubes or the EL12N tubes in the FA amps.
But the EL12 is a different story - could be that the tubes were bad to start with but found them very temperamental.
However, it appears that one of the major sellers of the EL12 tubes sold poor condition or worn out tubes as NOS (at top prices) and this could account for part of the problems we encountered as a group.

Anyhow, you would appreciate the esthetics of my current favorite setup of only three tubes in the GOTL - ECC31 and 6336B. (But then the spec sheet for the 6336B states that a pair could be used in the place of 4 or 6 6AS7 tubes:  _*"one 6336B will replace two or three 6080WB or 6AS7G").*_


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> The reason why I have the 6AK5 en masse is because my tube odyssey started with a Little Dot MKIII amp that uses these tubes as drivers. There must be thousands of owners of this little amp that use them.
> But I will certainly listen to your advice and not use them in the GOTL.



I am saying not a good idea to use them with a adapter with long leads to the amp


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> I am saying not a good idea to use them with a adapter with long leads to the amp


Does this qualify for long leads:


----------



## 2359glenn (Oct 21, 2018)

Hell year 1" is to long with some high frequency tubes.
You can try it if you want.  But you won't know if it is oscillating unless you have a oscilloscope.
The amp does have grid stopper resistors but they should be right at the tube with the leads as
short as possible.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Do you guys have same issue with the EL11 on FA? This is too early for a NOS tube went south.
> 
> You should get a GEL3N instead of doing this kind of DLevi things..............



Non owners makes the most noise and that's you.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Looks like you are using two EL12 and two EL12N as power tubes now. Is the sound different than using EL11?



I don't hear it much different. More power as indicated on the volume knob placement.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Non owners makes the most noise and that's you.


True. I just cannot afford anything. But does that mean I cannot question here?


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I don't hear it much different. More power as indicated on the volume knob placement.


I think that I have 6 EL12N....


----------



## Phantaminum

@gibosi

Going through several of my 5670s and I had totally forgotten about one that I really enjoy. The GE 5* Triple Mica Square Getter tube is (personally) fantastic and I've always enjoyed them. Think WE 2c51s except not as refined with much more extension on both ends. It has a U shaped sound with a really nice hitting bottom end and more extended treble. I feel that the WE 2c51s does slightly better at busy passages but really it's a great tube. They would pair up well with warmer power tubes like the RCA 6AS7s or even the GE 6BX7s.

Looks like they've gone up in price but this seller is selling them for a very reasonable price:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Match-1-Pa...=item3a847465da:g:KeEAAOSwy4hUUeVs:rk:10:pf:0


----------



## leftside

Those GE 5670's are great. Good value as well.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Those GE 5670's are great. Good value as well.



From China ?


----------



## gibosi

@Phantaminum

I shuffled through my collection and found one of these 5* GEs with three mica spacers and a rectangular getter. Mine was manufactured in 1957, week 32. The next month or so promises to be a very busy time for me but will try to check it out soon. Thanks!


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> From China ?





2359glenn said:


> From China ?


Made in the US and sold in China lol......


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> From China ?



It depends on who you ask....  Typically folks from Taiwan say no. But folks from China say yes.....


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> From China ?


Can be had from US sellers as well for similar prices


----------



## 2359glenn

Listening to the Auteur with all Brimar amplification sounds sweet    Brimar 13D1>two Brimar 6080 outputs with Mulard GZ37
Best sound yet!!!!!!!!!!!!
My good camera died pic from cheap cam.


----------



## felix3650

Is it my impression or the amp looks smaller Glenn? Btw what are those blue caps? I see others have them black


----------



## Hansotek

Nice! I’ve been rocking this roll lately with Auteur and Atticus:

Rectifier: Cossor 45iu 
Driver: Mullard ECC31 
Power: 4x RCA 6BX7 



It’s a rare combo that is super warm and punchy across the board, but doesn’t sacrifice stage size or airy extension up top. Actually makes Atticus sound more open than a lot of open headphones!


----------



## 2359glenn

Different brand Nippon chemi con good caps some come in black some blue.
I am very picky of the capacitors I use only use Nippon and BHC for filters and all Sprague Atom under the hood.
Not smaller less tube sockets.


----------



## 2359glenn (Oct 22, 2018)

This amp kicks ass with all Brimar
Next is my amp with GEC 6J5s and Brimar 6080s.
Will see don't know how anything can sound better with the Auteur than this.
Now can't wait until i get the Aeolus !!!!!


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 22, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Different brand Nippon chemi con good caps some come in black some blue.
> I am very picky of the capacitors I use only use Nippon and BHC for filters and all Sprague Atom under the hood.
> Not smaller less tube sockets.



You’ve been meaning to build yourself a bigger amp. What would you build if money was no object?

*Whatever it is I want one*


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> You’ve been meaning to build yourself a bigger amp. What would you build if money wasn’t an option?
> 
> *Whatever it is I want one*



Not sure if this sound can be beat.
Was thinking about playing with EL34s the EL3N was the original predecessor they sound so good with Lundahl output
transformers.
More power but will the EL34 sound similar??


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> Not sure if this sound can be beat.
> Was thinking about playing with EL34s the EL3N was the original predecessor they sound so good with Lundahl output
> transformers.
> More power but will the EL34 sound similar??



The EL34 sounds interesting. Excuse my ignorance but it looks like the EL34s power tubes would be a great match for planars like the EL3N. I’m sure if you build one it’ll sound fantastic.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hansotek said:


> Nice! I’ve been rocking this roll lately with Auteur and Atticus:
> 
> Rectifier: Cossor 45iu
> Driver: Mullard ECC31
> ...



Does the ECC31 sound as good as a ECC32 or ECC33 no adapter needed. Pricey though.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> The EL34 sounds interesting. Excuse my ignorance but it looks like the EL34s power tubes would be a great match for planars like the EL3N. I’m sure if you build one it’ll sound fantastic.



Still can get Mullard EL34s not that high priced.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Does the ECC31 sound as good as a ECC32 or ECC33 no adapter needed. Pricey though.


I love the ECC31 with a pair of 6336B. The ECC31 is supposed to be very similar to the ECC32 but needs an adapter in the GOTL..
I believe UT has all three so he could tell us about the differences in sound.


2359glenn said:


> Listening to the Auteur with all Brimar amplification sounds sweet    Brimar 13D1>two Brimar 6080 outputs with Mulard GZ37
> Best sound yet!!!!!!!!!!!!
> My good camera died pic from cheap cam.


Hi Glenn,
Who made your Brimar tubes? They are not British made. Sylvania?


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Listening to the Auteur with all Brimar amplification sounds sweet    Brimar 13D1>two Brimar 6080 outputs with Mulard GZ37
> Best sound yet!!!!!!!!!!!!



Well, not quite all Brimar...  Brimar never made the 6080. And notice the word "foreign" which indicates that they were not manufactured in Britain. I agree with Mordy.... To my eyes, three mica spacers, the bottom two with teeth and the top one smooth, and copper grid posts suggests Sylvania.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I love the ECC31 with a pair of 6336B. The ECC31 is supposed to be very similar to the ECC32 but needs an adapter in the GOTL..



The ECC32 was originally listed as a modified ECC31 in old Mullard literature. Construction-wise they appear to be identical and to the best of my knowledge, the only difference is the common cathode. Apparently, the strapping connecting the two cathodes was snipped and the result was the ECC32. However, I have not had the opportunity to "dissect" one of each to test this hypothesis. lol


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Well, not quite all Brimar...  Brimar never made the 6080. And notice the word "foreign" which indicates that they were not manufactured in Britain. I agree with Mordy.... To my eyes, three mica spacers, the bottom two with teeth and the top one smooth, and copper grid posts suggests Sylvania.


Looked over the pictures again - it says USA. So now we can argue if it is a 6080, 6080WA, 6080WB or 6080WC (I vote for the latter).


gibosi said:


> Well, not quite all Brimar...  Brimar never made the 6080. And notice the word "foreign" which indicates that they were not manufactured in Britain. I agree with Mordy.... To my eyes, three mica spacers, the bottom two with teeth and the top one smooth, and copper grid posts suggests Sylvania.


Here is a single Brimar 6080 for sale on eBay - it says USA:


----------



## Phantaminum

I purchased a pair of cheap Tung Sol 12AH7s and I'm really enjoying them. I read through the thread and it seems like they start out fine (which they have) and seems to lose it's body the TS are known for. Right now I'm pretty impressed with what I hear right off the bat. I'm around 10 hours in so I'll report back after 40+ hours.

Glenn your amp and the 6BX7s have really opened up. At first I didn't care for their sound too much but I'm glad I stuck through it. I was rolling power tubes for a good bit but they've been going strong for close to a month without being swapped out.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Listening to the Auteur with all Brimar amplification sounds sweet    Brimar 13D1>two Brimar 6080 outputs with Mulard GZ37
> Best sound yet!!!!!!!!!!!!
> My good camera died pic from cheap cam.



Whose amp is this? Looks neat and nice with just a 6sn7 and a pair of power tubes with a rectifier.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> I love the ECC31 with a pair of 6336B. The ECC31 is supposed to be very similar to the ECC32 but needs an adapter in the GOTL..
> I believe UT has all three so he could tell us about the differences in sound.



I don’t have ecc32 and have no plans to get. Have to save up for 2a3 tubes. 

Ecc31 is quite different to ecc33 tonally.

In a very crude analogy, if ecc31 is the Atticus, then the ecc33 is the Eikon.


----------



## Hansotek

2359glenn said:


> Does the ECC31 sound as good as a ECC32 or ECC33 no adapter needed. Pricey though.



I’d be interested to hear those others, I have not. From what I heard 31 & 32 are similar, but 31 can be acquired more cheaply because it requires that adaptor. Can’t confirm that with any impressions of my own... just heresay. Still, it has been one of my favorite drivers. I pretty much roll either this or a pair of C3Gs.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Looked over the pictures again - it says USA. So now we can argue if it is a 6080, 6080WA, 6080WB or 6080WC (I vote for the latter).
> 
> Here is a single Brimar 6080 for sale on eBay - it says USA:



Mine don't say USA but they might be. Whatever they are they sound good.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Whose amp is this? Looks neat and nice with just a 6sn7 and a pair of power tubes with a rectifier.



@sealykojac amp it does have the 6.3-12.6-25.2 volt switch.
A nice little amp.


----------



## sealykojac

Looking forward to it's arrival. I wanted to keep things simple and not get crazy with tube rolling.


----------



## mordy (Oct 22, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Mine don't say USA but they might be. Whatever they are they sound good.





sealykojac said:


> Looking forward to it's arrival. I wanted to keep things simple and not get crazy with tube rolling.


Hi Sealykojac,
Here is my imitation of your amp that Glenn pictured - using the same tubes but HEXFRED rectifier.
Sounds very nice with a meaty, brassy bass.




Sounds even better after warming up with a very clear presentation. Five star toe tapping index....


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Hi Sealykojac,
> Here is my imitation of your amp that Glenn pictured - using the same tubes but HEXFRED rectifier.
> Sounds very nice with a meaty, brassy bass.
> 
> Sounds even better after warming up with a very clear presentation. Five star toe tapping index....


PS: Could not resist plugging in a second pair of Syl 6080. These are rebranded Electronic Enterprises and bought in the hope that they were rebranded Bendix 6080WB which would have been a true bargain at $7 each. But they weren't- Sylvania 6080WB.
The character of the sound changed - harder hitting, more detailed but lacking the musicality of  a single pair of Syl 6080. Prefer the original setup.


----------



## gibosi

And for those who are a little more adventurous, this tiny Western Electric 396A continues to captivate me, matched up with Tung-Sol 6BX7 and a Holland-made GZ34.


----------



## whirlwind

Hansotek said:


> Nice! I’ve been rocking this roll lately with Auteur and Atticus:
> 
> Rectifier: Cossor 45iu
> Driver: Mullard ECC31
> ...



I agree that the Atticus can sound more open than some open headphones.
Have you heard the  Aeolus yet ?
If so, how is the bass slam and impact compared to the Atticus ?


----------



## rnros

sealykojac said:


> Looking forward to it's arrival. I wanted to keep things simple and not get crazy with tube rolling.



Congrats! Nice GOTL. Worth the wait for one of Glenn's amps. Enjoy.


----------



## Hansotek

whirlwind said:


> I agree that the Atticus can sound more open than some open headphones.
> Have you heard the  Aeolus yet ?
> If so, how is the bass slam and impact compared to the Atticus ?



Only briefly so far. I should have it here next week. I don't think it has quite as much bass slam as the Atticus, but it probably has more linear extension in both directions. Very easy headphone to listen to. Keeps that same natural sounding timbre and engulfing sound that you get from the Atty.


----------



## Phantaminum

Hansotek said:


> Only briefly so far. I should have it here next week. I don't think it has quite as much bass slam as the Atticus, but it probably has more linear extension in both directions. Very easy headphone to listen to. Keeps that same natural sounding timbre and engulfing sound that you get from the Atty.



I’m really torn between the Verite and Aeolus. I’m waiting in anticipation of your thoughts with it paired with the GOTL.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Not sure if this sound can be beat.
> Was thinking about playing with EL34s the EL3N was the original predecessor they sound so good with Lundahl output
> transformers.
> More power but will the EL34 sound similar??



My vote is for 6V6GT.  Every time I google this and the EL34 all I get are threads about guitar amps which makes researching a little hard, but the 6V6 gives me that "gut feeling" somehow.


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> My vote is for 6V6GT.  Every time I google this and the EL34 all I get are threads about guitar amps which makes researching a little hard, but the 6V6 gives me that "gut feeling" somehow.



Tyrell

You want me to build you a nice 6V6 headphone amp with Lundahl transformers??
It wiuld work with 6V6 6K6 6L6 5881 El34 KT66 and more tubes.


----------



## rnros

@2359glenn You have priority mail with sockets and caps headed your way.
Check PM for details. Thanks.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Tyrell
> 
> You want me to build you a nice 6V6 headphone amp with Lundahl transformers??
> It wiuld work with 6V6 6K6 6L6 5881 El34 KT66 and more tubes.



Not headphone my friend.  Very happy with the 45.  

But, I have thought about asking you if you're interested in making me an integrated amp for speaker drive only.

It's just a thought for right now......... I'm not really sure what I want to do.  It would be fun to discuss ideas for it though.


----------



## mordy

Brimar 13D1/Sylvania 6080WB sounds great. Thanks to Glenn for mentioning this combination. It is becoming one of my favorites.

It is very hard to find the 13D1 tubes - when I search i just get shoe items lol. And again I want to thank Glenn for sending me a 13D1 tube.

I am thoroughly enjoying the GOTL. Almost everything sounds good in this amp. At this time I am only looking for great sounding tubes....


----------



## 2359glenn

OK think about it.
The 6V6 is a good sounding tube


mordy said:


> Brimar 13D1/Sylvania 6080WB sounds great. Thanks to Glenn for mentioning this combination. It is becoming one of my favorites.
> 
> It is very hard to find the 13D1 tubes - when I search i just get shoe items lol. And again I want to thank Glenn for sending me a 13D1 tube.
> 
> I am thoroughly enjoying the GOTL. Almost everything sounds good in this amp. At this time I am only looking for great sounding tubes....



I got some more from Langrex but the price went way up 25 Euro each but still a lot less then a Brimar 6SN7.


----------



## mordy (Oct 23, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> OK think about it.
> The 6V6 is a good sounding tube
> 
> 
> I got some more from Langrex but the price went way up 25 Euro each but still a lot less then a Brimar 6SN7.


Just checked Langrex - all the 90 tubes are gone!
Billington claims to have used ones for GBP 12 but that has to be verified.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Just checked Langrex - all the 90 tubes are gone!
> Billington claims to have used ones for GBP 12 but that has to be verified.



Dam I should have bought more then 10 .  There were 90 when I bought the 10.
Guess I will have to start hoarding the ones I have left and stop giving them away.
Somebody must have found out how good they sound and making amps that use them.
This happened before the 3DG4s I give with the amp I got from ESRC for $1.
Stan had thousands of them was giving them away. Then somebody from China
bought all he had.
Guess I have to stop giving away 13D1s with the amp switch back to the 1633.
Still a good sounding tube for cheap.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Dam I should have bought more then 10 .  There were 90 when I bought the 10.
> Guess I will have to start hoarding the ones I have left and stop giving them away.
> Somebody must have found out how good they sound and making amps that use them.
> This happened before the 3DG4s I give with the amp I got from ESRC for $1.
> ...



Yes, those 1633 tubes still sound good and they are also much more plentiful, especially the RCA


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Yes, those 1633 tubes still sound good and they are also much more plentiful, especially the RCA



Sound pretty dam good for $4


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Sound pretty dam good for $4


I have been looking for the Ken-Rad 1633 but also very hard to find.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> I have been looking for the Ken-Rad 1633 but also very hard to find.



Same. I am in touch with someone who’s selling 13D1s for $30 each but the caveat was I’d have to buy at minimum $120 worth of tubes before they sold them to me. Let me know if you want to split 4 with me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Brimar and Sylvania tubes balance each other nicely in terms of tone.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Same. I am in touch with someone who’s selling 13D1s for $30 each but the caveat was I’d have to buy at minimum $120 worth of tubes before they sold them to me. Let me know if you want to split 4 with me.



That is as much as I paid once you convert Euros to dollars plus I paid shipping from UK.
Actually that isn't a bad deal you should be able to sell the other 3 or keep 2 and sell 2.


----------



## 2359glenn

I just looked Langrex still has them there stocklist say they have 90 but maybe they haven't updated.
You should be able to buy 1 or 2 from them @ 25E convert to dollars is X1.14 = 28.49 each tube not that bad when you think about it.
What does a TSBGRP cost??


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> I just looked Langrex still has them there stocklist say they have 90 but maybe they haven't updated.
> You should be able to buy 1 or 2 from them @ 25E convert to dollars is X1.14 = 28.49 each tube not that bad when you think about it.
> What does a TSBGRP cost??



The prices of the TS 6SN7GT BGRP are all over the map - from $7 to $375 each incl shipping:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/2-Tung-Sol-...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NEW-Tung...lzte:sc:USPSFirstClass!10952!US!-1:rk:67:pf:0


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> The prices of the TS 6SN7GT BGRP are all over the map - from $7 to $375 each incl shipping:
> https://www.ebay.de/itm/2-Tung-Sol-6SN7GT-Radio-Vacuum-Tubes-tested-/292662990208?hash=item442412d580:g:uHUAAOSwOGlbYJtS&nma=true&si=yu6WrKAObEdlCIVF6hdW4Lkgrc4%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NEW-Tung...lzte:sc:USPSFirstClass!10952!US!-1:rk:67:pf:0



That second eBay link made me spit my coffee out. $700+ for a pair? There are still the 6SL7s and 6SU7GTYs for around $150 for a pair but obviously dependent on the system/power tube pairing. 

@2359glenn I’ll take your advice and buy all four. In case one of you guys in the future need a pair I can let them go. Luckily the amp uses adapters for almost any triode under the sun.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> That second eBay link made me spit my coffee out. $700+ for a pair? There are still the 6SL7s and 6SU7GTYs for around $150 for a pair but obviously dependent on the system/power tube pairing.
> 
> @2359glenn I’ll take your advice and buy all four. In case one of you guys in the future need a pair I can let them go. Luckily the amp uses adapters for almost any triode under the sun.



Does your amp have the 6.3-12.6-25.2 volt switch I can't remember.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> I have been looking for the Ken-Rad 1633 but also very hard to find.



I always keep my eye out for these, but they are getting harder than ever to find.


----------



## 2359glenn

Most people with my amp can use this.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-excellen...=item3d773fc147:g:l94AAOSwLKNbs--9:rk:19:pf:0


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> Does your amp have the 6.3-12.6-25.2 volt switch I can't remember.



Hey Glenn. Yes it does. Couldn’t go without it since I like the option for flexibility. Great to find 12SN7s, 12SL7s, and 25v on the cheap.

I’ll be testing out a few 12SL7 tubes from Russia and see if any of them are good replacements for some of the other tubes. I really enjoy the Foton ribbed 6n8s. They have great rhythm, bass, and treble. Only draw back is they can be grainy but i’m not sure if that goes away after a 100 hour burn in.


----------



## 2359glenn

I tell people that is the best upgrade to get in the amp.
The last batch of 13D1s cost me $7.50 each couldn't beat that got them from a surplus airplane supply they were for old avionics.
Got 14 of them all but 1 are gone now. so I got 10 more from Langrex  these are great sounding tubes.


----------



## sealykojac

My office just got a lot hotter..


----------



## gibosi

It looks like the upgraded transformer with a Mullard GZ32, Sylvania 6080 and the 25V Brimar.

Of course, it's getting cold in Michigan, so I am sure the extra heat is welcome... But how does it sound?


----------



## 2359glenn

Cool glad you like.
Might need some burning in I only ran it about 14hrs.


----------



## UntilThen

I like the look of that amp. Been running a Brimar 13d1 with Tung Sol 5998 for a few days and it’s a very very good tone.


----------



## gibosi

Mine, with the original transformer and the addition of two C3g sockets, looks pretty similar.



But as I have said many times in the past, if I were to ask Glenn to build another OTL for me today, I would definitely get six output sockets. The ability to run four or six 6BX7/6BL7 adds so much to this amp. And I would be very happy if I could throw away these rickety adapters...


----------



## UntilThen

I spy a Marconi B36 with a pair of 5998 and a Cossor 53ku rectifier. Good choice. That should sound great. I too pack up my rickety adapters and EL tubes. Aesthetics is important. 

Sylvania 6sn7w and 5998. Simple but incredible music from this setup.


----------



## UntilThen

I miss reading this completely. So that's where Yates amp went. That is a very nice OTL amp with xlr in and out connectors and dual duelands caps.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1413#post-14317531


----------



## sealykojac

gibosi said:


> It looks like the upgraded transformer with a Mullard GZ32, Sylvania 6080 and the 25V Brimar.
> 
> Of course, it's getting cold in Michigan, so I am sure the extra heat is welcome... But how does it sound?



Well you really know your tubes. I've got a bunch of tubes from past amps to try out but this setup sounds great right out of the gate. You know how you sometimes buy something expensive and immediately have buyers remorse. This is not one of those cases. It's surely outclassed my previous tube headphone amp which never really won me over.. 

 
and then there are amps you always regret selling.. _(not headphones)_


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I spy a Marconi B36 with a pair of 5998 and a Cossor 53ku rectifier. Good choice. That should sound great. I too pack up my rickety adapters and EL tubes. Aesthetics is important.
> 
> Sylvania 6sn7w and 5998. Simple but incredible music from this setup.



It sure looks better this way than with EL’s and adaptors.  Will you sell off the adaptors and EL tubes, UT?

Still running K-R VT-231 + C3g’s with 5998’s here.  After a 20 min warm up...its dynamite with the SENN 580’s.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Switched to a 1954 Toshiba 12AU7 - made in Japan plus the C3g’s and the 5998’s.  

Very humbling experience with Brad’s Trio...your in the room when the music was created.  Can hear the gents breathe...between the notes played.  

Awesome!


----------



## UntilThen

No plans to sell the adapters and EL tubes yet unless I get an interested buyer.

I was rolling in a Ken Rad 1633 with 5998 earlier. Nice bass.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> No plans to sell the adapters and EL tubes yet unless I get an interested buyer.
> 
> I was rolling in a Ken Rad 1633 with 5998 earlier. Nice bass.



Oh
You got a Ken-Rad 1633 the best if it is not noisy.


----------



## UntilThen

Bought it sometime back for $13 NOS. I mention about the sale here. I think Joe bought one too. I save this picture from the seller.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Bought it sometime back for $13 NOS. I mention about the sale here. I think Joe bought one too. I save this picture from the seller.



Yes, I bought one as soon as you posted that great deal UT....great deal for that tube, the 6 volt version is much more expensive
I have all three 6/12/25 volt versions and they all sound the same.


----------



## 2359glenn

They are hard to find now that is why I went to the 13D1.
I do have about 10 RCA 1633s


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> They are hard to find now that is why I went to the 13D1.
> I do have about 10 RCA 1633s



Yes, they seem to be a pretty tough find these days, the Brimar 13D1 if you can get them for the price you did is a steal and the RCA 1633 is a bargain also.
It is probably the tube of the three that most would like least, but I like the wonderful warm sound that most RCA tubes bring to the table.
It may not have the strongest bass, but when paired with power tubes that do it can sound pretty damn good.


----------



## 2359glenn (Oct 27, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> Yes, they seem to be a pretty tough find these days, the Brimar 13D1 if you can get them for the price you did is a steal and the RCA 1633 is a bargain also.
> It is probably the tube of the three that most would like least, but I like the wonderful warm sound that most RCA tubes bring to the table.
> It may not have the strongest bass, but when paired with power tubes that do it can sound pretty damn good.



For the price a 1940s RCA smoke glass for $4 cant be beat
The last bach of Brimar 13D1s were not that cheep 25 Euro each plus shipping from UK


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> For the price a 1940s RCA smoke glass for $4 cant be beat
> The last bach of Brimar 13D1s were not that cheep 25 Euro each plus shipping from UK



For sure, at $4 each buy enough to last a lifetime.

I listen to mostly guitar oriented music these days and some players can have a bright sound to their house sound....for instance Gary Moore.  I love listening to some of his albums that have the brightest sound with the RCA driver tubes, they tone down that brightness.

I have never had a problem making music sound brighter....taking the shrillness and brightness down is a bit tougher in my experience.


----------



## UntilThen

I bought my Brimar 13D1 for 10 pounds each, from Langrex.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I bought my Brimar 13D1 for 10 pounds each, from Langrex.



Definitely a bargain


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Bought it sometime back for $13 NOS. I mention about the sale here. I think Joe bought one too. I save this picture from the seller.



Looks great and yes a fantastically attractive price 


Now plug in the C3g’s too, and your all set


----------



## JazzVinyl

The EL8’s have arrived fresh from Germany  
They smell like 3-in1 oil


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 27, 2018)

The EL8's are a fraction of the size of EL3n / EL11 / EL12..


----------



## felix3650

Let us know how they sound! I'm really curious


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 27, 2018)

Yes it will be interesting to see how the EL8 pair does against Driver Triplet...1954 Toshiba 12AU7 plus C3g and 5998’s:


----------



## JazzVinyl

Another stunning Trio presentation by the Glenn GOTL.  

Can hardly believe how great it sounds.


----------



## 2359glenn

I got a wood chassis black walnut to sort of go along with Zach's headphones.
Has to be the simple amp not enough room for 6 output tube sockets.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> I got a wood chassis black walnut to sort of go along with Zach's headphones.
> Has to be the simple amp not enough room for 6 output tube sockets.



Too bad not enough room, but bet it will be a nice looker...


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Too bad not enough room, but bet it will be a nice looker...



It will be like @sealykojac amp 4 tubes


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> It will be like @sealykojac amp 4 tubes



Still a killer amp. You can run 4 x 6AS7s or equivalent tubes to power planars or two 6336Bs. Plenty of power there. I bet it’ll be beautiful once it’s completed.


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> Still a killer amp. You can run 4 x 6AS7s or equivalent tubes to power planars or two 6336Bs. Plenty of power there. I bet it’ll be beautiful once it’s completed.



Did he mean 4 tubes...

2x power
1x driver
1x rectifier

Plenty to drive SENN High Impedance phones.  I don't know about low impedance or planer 'phones (since I don't have any).


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Did he mean 4 tubes...
> 
> 2x power
> 1x driver
> ...



Ah, you could be right JV! You could still run planars off 6336Bs with two power sockets. High Z cans definitely don't need much more than two 6AS7s from what I realized.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Still a killer amp. You can run 4 x 6AS7s or equivalent tubes to power planars or two 6336Bs. Plenty of power there. I bet it’ll be beautiful once it’s completed.



Yes it will be able to run two 6336 to drive planars


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Did he mean 4 tubes...
> 
> 2x power
> 1x driver
> ...



Wonder if simpler is better? Three tubes. Running a pair of 6336B with the Brimar 13D1 - sounds great.


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> For sure, at $4 each buy enough to last a lifetime.
> 
> I listen to mostly guitar oriented music these days and some players can have a bright sound to their house sound....for instance Gary Moore.  I love listening to some of his albums that have the brightest sound with the RCA driver tubes, they tone down that brightness.
> 
> I have never had a problem making music sound brighter....taking the shrillness and brightness down is a bit tougher in my experience.



I've found that the tubes themselves aren't a very effective place to wage this fight ultimately.  It's everything else before them, especially the DAC and level of source jitter.  Once everything upstream is sorted I find it's pretty hard to find bad sounding tubes.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> I've found that the tubes themselves aren't a very effective place to wage this fight ultimately.  It's everything else before them, especially the DAC and level of source jitter.  Once everything upstream is sorted I find it's pretty hard to find bad sounding tubes.


Hi X,
You are reading my mind - I mean thinking about bright sounding tubes.
Many of the tubes and tube combinations I have sound on the brighter side. In my experience the 13D1 and 1633 often tame the brightness in my system.
But I have another way of doing it - I use the tone controls of the preamp section of an integrated amp, (but only when listening through speakers which is my main listening mode).
Just simple treble and bass controls. (I also find the balance control useful in identifying a bad tube in a multi-tube set-up.)
Don't know if having a ss preamp in the chain degrades the sound - sounds pretty good even compared with headphones straight out of the GOTL. 
My "components" are old; an Outlaw RR2150 receiver and a Tandberg 3006A 150W amp. The speakers are new: Elac Debut 6 with an Elac S10 100W powered subwoofer.
Before this I used a 1980's Sony 110W receiver. It sounded sweeter but has an intermittent problem that one channel cuts out so I pulled the other stuff out of the parts bin.
I have a matching Tandberg 3008A Control Preamplier which probably would sound better, but only one channel is working. Thinking of having it fixed, but I am afraid of the cost - all the soldering points have to be resoldered.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's funny how the audiophile journey takes you away from tone controls, and then after spending a fortune you finally realize they could have been a much cheaper and less painful path to satisfaction.

I'm still doing in the hard way, but I think I'm pretty much there now at least.  It would have been nice to get there _before_ my hearing decided to take a crap, but......


----------



## mordy

What a coincidence! 
I think Whirlwind mentioned that all the Ken-Rad 1633, 12SN7 and 6SN7 tubes sound the same with very good bass.
Can't find the K-R 1633 or the 12SN7, and the 6SN7 are too expensive, so I decided to try the Ken-Rad 6F8G which I have courtesy of Glenn - thanks!
So what is the coincidence:



Look at the date - exactly 78 years ago, on the day!
Sounds good with strong bass, but I don't know if it has the "house sound" of the K-R 1633 et al.


----------



## gibosi

In my experience, 4 and 5 volt rectifiers work rather well as "tone controls". But I understand that many here do not have that option....


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> What a coincidence!
> I think Whirlwind mentioned that all the Ken-Rad 1633, 12SN7 and 6SN7 tubes sound the same with very good bass.
> Can't find the K-R 1633 or the 12SN7, and the 6SN7 are too expensive, so I decided to try the Ken-Rad 6F8G which I have courtesy of Glenn - thanks!
> So what is the coincidence:
> ...



You got that tube from me?


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> In my experience, 4 and 5 volt rectifiers work rather well as "tone controls". But I understand that many here do not have that option....



My Linux digital player software has tone control (12 band EQ) and the ability to increase or decrease signal strength...

So I am covered, even minus a rectifier tube....

But I am sure it's fun to see what the rectifier tube will do to the sound...


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I got a wood chassis black walnut to sort of go along with Zach's headphones.
> Has to be the simple amp not enough room for 6 output tube sockets.



A 4 tubes Glenn OTL amp in black walnut wood would be a very tempting proposition. In the last 2 weeks I have been listening to the EL11s and 6sn7w with 5998. I also tried the usual favourite power tubes of Gec 6as7g, Bendix 6080wb, Cetron 6336b, Gec 6080 with all my favourite drivers. In essence, the OTL amp can sound staggeringly wonderful with a single driver and a pair of 'choice' power tubes. So won over by what I heard that I question the wisdom of getting the Glenn Super 9 OTL amp.

Then after a 2 weeks absence with these tubes, I pop in the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x GE 6bx7gt. In that moment, I know for certainty that this is the 'defining' signature sound of the OTL amp. Many tube combinations sounds wonderful but the sextet 6bx7gt with a choice driver is without doubt my favourite.

So for me, my matching setup (in both looks and sound) is already set in concrete stone many months ago - the silver facial of Yggdrasil, Glenn Super 9 OTL amp and Sennheiser HD800.

Sound description of this setup - dynamic, punchy, super clarity (thanks to Yggdrasil), widest soundstage (thanks to HD800), tight and impactful bass that is neither bloomy or thin. Tube coloration in the right dosage that makes you want to listen to music with this tube amp every night. That's right - every night.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 30, 2018)

Xcalibur255 said:


> I've found that the tubes themselves aren't a very effective place to wage this fight ultimately.  It's everything else before them, especially the DAC and level of source jitter.  Once everything upstream is sorted I find it's pretty hard to find bad sounding tubes.



I agree...but when you are settled with your dac/headphones/amp....I have found that warmer tubes definitely help with taming brightness...especially if the rest of your chain is pretty transparent
I agree with you that if your dac is a bright sounding dac then you have a problem on the ground floor if you want to tame brightness.

Glenns OTL amp is so transparent to tube rolling that just rolling a warm driver tube works wonderful with a Grado RS1

With the two ZMF headphones that I have....brightness is pretty much never an issue....but the HD800 and Grado RS1 definitely have a brighter sound


----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> I agree...but when you are settled with your dac/headphones/amp....I have found that warmer tubes definitely help with taming brightness...especially if the rest of your chain is pretty transparent
> I agree with you that if your dac is a bright sounding dac then you have a problem on the ground floor if you want to tame brightness.
> 
> Glenns OTL amp is so transparent to tube rolling that just rolling a warm driver tube works wonderful with a Grado RS1
> ...



I found that RCAs work well with revealing headphones like the Auteurs but on well mastered tracks I usually swap it out with a tube that’s not rolled off at the top. Because of this i’ve gone through and grouped up albums on my play list that are badly mastered or are etched vs great mastered albums / albums that are not etched. 

I’ve left in a single National Union paired with my 6BX7s and it has great synergy. Don’t want to take it out in the close or near future.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Proud owner of the Glenn recommended Auteur tubes setup. I bought 4 of these for $150 with shipping. They are scarce as hen's teeth and even the UK sites don't show any. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-PIECES-B...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
He has 1 set of 4 tubes left and I offered him $150 including shipping. 

I am next on the build list and I am tube ready  to feel some toasty warmth this winter from my Glenn.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> A 4 tubes Glenn OTL amp in black walnut wood would be a very tempting proposition. In the last 2 weeks I have been listening to the EL11s and 6sn7w with 5998. I also tried the usual favourite power tubes of Gec 6as7g, Bendix 6080wb, Cetron 6336b, Gec 6080 with all my favourite drivers. In essence, the OTL amp can sound staggeringly wonderful with a single driver and a pair of 'choice' power tubes. So won over by what I heard that I question the wisdom of getting the Glenn Super 9 OTL amp.
> 
> Then after a 2 weeks absence with these tubes, I pop in the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x GE 6bx7gt. In that moment, I know for certainty that this is the 'defining' signature sound of the OTL amp. Many tube combinations sounds wonderful but the sextet 6bx7gt with a choice driver is without doubt my favourite.
> 
> ...



Looks fantastic, UT...like the absence of the socket savers  

I am still driver triplet...and the EL8 adapter should arrive today, was due in yesterday but did not arrive.  

Glad this set sounds the best, cause it sure does look the best, too


----------



## sealykojac (Oct 30, 2018)

FunctionalDoc said:


> Proud owner of the Glenn recommended Auteur tubes setup. I bought 4 of these for $150 with shipping. They are scarce as hen's teeth and even the UK sites don't show any.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-PIECES-BRIMAR-NOS-QUAD-VINTAGE-QUAD-6080-6080WA-6AS7G-5998-WE-421-A-RARE/273109266875?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> He has 1 set of 4 tubes left and I offered him $150 including shipping.
> 
> I am next on the build list and I am tube ready  to feel some toasty warmth this winter from my Glenn.



Both @2359glenn and I bought these same set of tubes from this auction. I believe that Glenn's tubes are all fine. I'm less than happy with the tubes I ended up with. Only 1 of the 4 is quiet in my GOTL, 1 has the metal base at the bottom that is loose, one of the tubes pops insanely loudly as its warming up that I fear it could toast a headphone driver. The only quiet one is glowing much brighter than the others...


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Well I hope that I get at least 2 ones out of them.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> I found that RCAs work well with revealing headphones like the Auteurs but on well mastered tracks I usually swap it out with a tube that’s not rolled off at the top. Because of this i’ve gone through and grouped up albums on my play list that are badly mastered or are etched vs great mastered albums / albums that are not etched.
> 
> I’ve left in a single National Union paired with my 6BX7s and it has great synergy. Don’t want to take it out in the close or near future.


NU 6F8G?


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 30, 2018)

mordy said:


> NU 6F8G?



Close but I'm using the 6C8G version of the tube and they're much cheaper than the 6F8Gs. I looked at the prices for them and my goodness they're being for almost $100 a pop. The 6C8Gs are much cheaper and I assume they sound the same.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/JAN-6C8-G-...ahJd0:sc:USPSFirstClass!77073!US!-1:rk:5:pf:0

It works really well with the warmer, full sounding, GE 6BX7s while adding a bit more to the top end that I find missing. It also, to my ears, has great PRaT compared to some of my other tubes that sound a bit slow on rythmic heavy pieces. Funny that I enjoy these now as I thought they were very boring on the Mjolnir 2.


----------



## Xcalibur255

sealykojac said:


> Both @2359glenn and I bought these same set of tubes from this auction. I believe that Glenn's tubes are all fine. I'm less than happy with the tubes I ended up with. Only 1 of the 4 is quiet in my GOTL, 1 has the metal base at the bottom that is loose, one of the tubes pops insanely loudly as its warming up that I fear it could toast a headphone driver. The only quiet one is glowing much brighter than the others...


Don't use the one that's producing the loud popping sound.  That can damage your headphones.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> Don't use the one that's producing the loud popping sound.  That can damage your headphones.



I have had good luck in salvaging tubes that make loud popping sounds by taking a 35W soldering iron and applying heat to the tube pins for 30 seconds.
And as X255 says, these popping sounds can blow headphone drivers, and therefore I also always try out new tubes with a pair of inexpensive headphones, just in case....
Speaking from experience - a bad tube, making popping and explosive sounds, ruined one of the drivers of my Beyerdynamic T1 headphones. 
But now this tube (an Arcturus/Tung Sol 12SN7GT) sings after reheating the pins and does not pose any threat to my headphones any more.


----------



## 2359glenn

sealykojac said:


> Both @2359glenn and I bought these same set of tubes from this auction. I believe that Glenn's tubes are all fine. I'm less than happy with the tubes I ended up with. Only 1 of the 4 is quiet in my GOTL, 1 has the metal base at the bottom that is loose, one of the tubes pops insanely loudly as its warming up that I fear it could toast a headphone driver. The only quiet one is glowing much brighter than the others...



I think they are warranted contact the seller and get your money back or new ones. 

Seller Notes: “YOU GET ALL 4 TUBES . EACH TUBE IS 100% BRAND NEW VINTAGE 1960'S MADE SUPER TUBES EACH TUBE IS 100% GUARANTEED TO WORK EXCELLENT FOR YOU IN YOUR AMPLIFIER AUDIO TUBE GEAR ALL 4 TUBES ARE BEAUTIFUL VERY CLEAN 100% BRAND NEW VINTAGE VALVES”


----------



## FunctionalDoc

2359glenn said:


> I think they are warranted contact the seller and get your money back or new ones.
> 
> Seller Notes: “YOU GET ALL 4 TUBES . EACH TUBE IS 100% BRAND NEW VINTAGE 1960'S MADE SUPER TUBES EACH TUBE IS 100% GUARANTEED TO WORK EXCELLENT FOR YOU IN YOUR AMPLIFIER AUDIO TUBE GEAR ALL 4 TUBES ARE BEAUTIFUL VERY CLEAN 100% BRAND NEW VINTAGE VALVES”


I  just bought 4 from the same seller so it is good to know that he guarantees them to work in my amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

FunctionalDoc said:


> I  just bought 4 from the same seller so it is good to know that he guarantees them to work in my amp.



All 4 of mine are completely silent perfect.  Maybe just lucky.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The 70 USD spent on EL8 plus adaptor - wasted.

The base of one EL8 came apart trying to get it in the socket...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Its probably synergy with my SENN 580’s but driver triplet (either K-R VT-231 or a good 12AU7) plus C3g and 5998 seem tough to beat in my amp. 
3D / Holographic presentation....

Addictive!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> The 70 USD spent on EL8 plus adaptor - wasted.
> 
> The base of one EL8 came apart trying to get it in the socket...



Those Chinese sockets suck to hard to get the tube in then later bad connection the tube is loose .


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> The 70 USD spent on EL8 plus adaptor - wasted.
> 
> The base of one EL8 came apart trying to get it in the socket...



Sorry to hear about the adapter JV! They remind me of the FDD20 tube and adapter. The pins on those tubes are a pain to plug in. I had to finagle it around while applying some serious pressure to get it in. 

Is there anyway to get a replacement or money back from the seller?


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Sorry to hear about the adapter JV! They remind me of the FDD20 tube and adapter. The pins on those tubes are a pain to plug in. I had to finagle it around while applying some serious pressure to get it in.
> 
> Is there anyway to get a replacement or money back from the seller?


Is it possible to use crazy glue to get the socket back in place?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Is it possible to use crazy glue to get the socket back in place?



No, unfortunately broke apart in several places and connections are gone.  Not worth any more time or effort imho. 

Driver triplet/5998 is dandy.  

Like other recent Mrs Xu purchased 12au7 and ecc403 adaptors...sockets are terribly tight...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> Sorry to hear about the adapter JV! They remind me of the FDD20 tube and adapter. The pins on those tubes are a pain to plug in. I had to finagle it around while applying some serious pressure to get it in.
> 
> Is there anyway to get a replacement or money back from the seller?



I doubt it.  i broke it.  Adaptor was a bit more expensive than the two tubes...

My FDD20 adaptor is not so tight.  
This new adaptor...ugh,  way too tight.


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> Sorry to hear about the adapter JV! They remind me of the FDD20 tube and adapter. The pins on those tubes are a pain to plug in. I had to finagle it around while applying some serious pressure to get it in.
> 
> Is there anyway to get a replacement or money back from the seller?





JazzVinyl said:


> I doubt it.  i broke it.  Adaptor was a bit more expensive than the two tubes...
> 
> My FDD20 adaptor is not so tight.
> This new adaptor...ugh,  way too tight.



You're not the first, doubt you'll be the last, to break a tube in one of the bad Chinese EL/AZ sockets.
Sure you can get a refund. And you won't be the first on that either.

Bottom line is that Mrs X had some adapters fabricated with a bad batch of these EL/AZ/FDD adapters.
Someone, or several people, along the supply and fabrication chain, have to take responsibility.
Someone will lose a few dollars, or yuan. That's the price of failing to quality check the parts being used.
But it shouldn't be you, or any of us. She IS aware of the problem, and SHOULD be checking each adapter before sending.

You can can initiate the return process by simply using the 'More Actions' drop down menu for the item on your Purchase History.
Select 'Return Item' and you have started the process, eBay will back you up. 
If you want to give her the option of doing a voluntary refund, you can message her first. 
Since all her other types of adapters have been good, I gave her the option to do the voluntary refund.
Took a few exchanges, but she did do it, and it is the kinder way to go. Of course, she wants to maintain good feedback. 

I found the EL8s to be as tough or fragile as any other typical tube of that period.
No, I did not try to use excessive force with one of those bad adapters. Refused to do that.
But I did purposely break one to see what was inside... well it was only $9.
Took a few whacks in a freezer bag against a concrete curb... 
LOL Thought it would take a lot less force than it did. Glass broke, but base remained firmly attached.
Sorry for your bad experience. Hate when stuff like that happens.


----------



## rnros

gibosi said:


> Well, not quite all Brimar...  Brimar never made the 6080. And notice the word "foreign" which indicates that they were not manufactured in Britain. I agree with Mordy.... To my eyes, three mica spacers, the bottom two with teeth and the top one smooth, and copper grid posts suggests Sylvania.



And looks like this tube was still being made into the mid '80s after Philips bought Sylvania. Labeled then as PhilipsECG 6080WC. Have some, nice tube.
But, the copper grid posts were changed along the way. 

These were one of the last years labeled as Sylvania, sold by same seller:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-QU...LVANIA-VINTAGE-3-MICA-TUBES-NEW/273080189051?


----------



## Oskari (Oct 31, 2018)

rnros said:


> These were one of the last years labeled as Sylvania, sold by same seller:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-QU...LVANIA-VINTAGE-3-MICA-TUBES-NEW/273080189051?


"Thank You,
Old Guy Radiola"

I'd avoid bangybang like the plague.


----------



## gibosi

Sylvania also marketed these 6080 under their Gold Brand label. It is the same exact tube, whether labeled as Sylvania mil-spec, Sylvania Gold Brand, Philips, Brimar or various other rebrands. My advice is to go for the ones with the best price.


----------



## mordy

The Gold Brand were supposed to be 10,000 hour tubes. Are all the Sylvania 6080 the same quality?


----------



## gibosi

It is my understanding that the Gold Brand label was placed on military and industrial tubes for sale to the general public. So Sylvania did not create new and special tubes for the Gold Brand designation. In this case, it is simply a regular 6080WC, which is in fact a premium tube, relabeled for sale to the general public. Again, in this case, these are all the same tubes, just different labels.


----------



## rnros

Oskari said:


> "Thank You,Old Guy Radiola"
> 
> I'd avoid bangybang like the plague.



He's been known to have that effect on people. 



gibosi said:


> Sylvania also marketed these 6080 under their Gold Brand label. It is the same exact tube, whether labeled as Sylvania mil-spec, Sylvania Gold Brand, Philips, Brimar or various other rebrands. My advice is to go for the ones with the best price.



I honestly don't know if the earlier production years, like those relabeled by Brimar, sound any better than the later years.

So, the link I posted was not intended as a recommendation for BB's listing, but to show similar construction of the Sylvania.
Taking the next step and doing some comparative shopping for the '80s, you would find them for much, much less.
Several thousand of the '80s Philips were released into the market earlier this year at some very low prices.


----------



## mordy

A few years ago I acquired a bunch of the Sylvania 6080 tubes (6080, 6080WB and WC as well as Gold Brand and Philips). In my old FA amps I preferred the older late 1960 to early 1970 tubes. However, I do not know if this applies to the GOTL which makes the tubes sound different than my old amps.
Some have double micas and some triple micas - I would just look for the triple mica tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Oskari said:


> "Thank You,
> Old Guy Radiola"
> 
> I'd avoid bangybang like the plague.



I've seen that name before, but I'm not aware of the baggage you are apparently referring to.


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> I've seen that name before, but I'm not aware of the baggage you are apparently referring to.



https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubes&m=275412


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> A pair of Raytheon CK5694 have popped up on eBay:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-...CC32-Matched-Amplifier-Tube-Pair/223181106023
> 
> ...




Those two 5694's sold for $338.00 USD plus $9 shipping  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-...C32-Matched-Amplifier-Tube-Pair-/223181106023


----------



## mordy

Looks like bangybangtubes AKA Old Guy Radiola is following the Glenn thread:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-PIECES-B...266875?hash=item3f9694b1bb:g:UcMAAOSwuWJaqKja
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-QU...189051?hash=item3f94d9007b:g:0D0AAOSwf81ajokr
But you can buy the Philips-Sylvania 6080WC triple mica for around $11/tube + shipping:
https://www.tubedepot.com/products/6080wc


----------



## mordy (Oct 31, 2018)

Started to roll 6F8G tubes which are a predecessor to the 6SN7 tubes. These are ST tubes with an anode cap, necessitating a special adapter.
Bought my adapters from somebody in Poland and they seem to be good quality.
For the past two days i listened to my prairie companion - the Kentucky Radio 6F8G. The Ken-Rad is among the oldest tubes I have - from 1940. Nice sound with a pleasant emphasis on the mid bass.
Today I put in a 1945 RCA 6F8G. This tube has an even, sweet frequency response with very clear vocals, and it is also very pleasant to listen to.
Two red hot 500 HP engines in the boiler room.....




The RCA tube gets the award for the least tube glow - even with the room darkened I can barely detect it. The plus side is that it doesn't get hot at all, and it is perfectly safe to touch it; something which you cannot say about the 6336B tubes. I am reminded of this when I change the voltage switch in the back of the amp lol......

Trivia question: If a tube has the letters MR on the base, when was it made?


----------



## mordy

Does anybody have any experience with the 6N22P tube?


----------



## rnros

6N22P? No.

Designation would make it a 6V dual triode, 7 or 9 pin small bottle, but the 22,,, IDK.

Always found this to be a reliable data source but not listed here either:
http://www.russiantubes.com/tubes.php?r=12


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Started to roll 6F8G tubes which are a predecessor to the 6SN7 tubes. These are ST tubes with an anode cap, necessitating a special adapter.
> Bought my adapters from somebody in Poland and they seem to be good quality.
> For the past two days i listened to my prairie companion - the Kentucky Radio 6F8G. The Ken-Rad is among the oldest tubes I have - from 1940. Nice sound with a pleasant emphasis on the mid bass.
> Today I put in a 1945 RCA 6F8G. This tube has an even, sweet frequency response with very clear vocals, and it is also very pleasant to listen to.
> ...



Do try out some of the 6C8Gs. Mostly cheaper and pretty much sound the same as the 6SN7/6F8Gs. I think the only caveat with them is that they may not last as long as the 6F8Gs but i’m not sure if that holds true. 

How did you like the 6336b + RCAs?

 I’d love to send you my FDD20. They sound powerful with the 6336Bs. It’s hard to find them now.


----------



## 2359glenn

OK here is were I get most of my tubes from. Good pricing  6F8G  $18   6C8G  $7   1633 $4  And Stan is a great guy
http://www.esrcvacuumtubes.com/vacuumtubes_tubelist_tubes_6d4-6jz8.html
http://www.esrcvacuumtubes.com/vacuumtubes_tubelist_tubes_6A3-6CZ5.html
http://www.esrcvacuumtubes.com/vacuumtubes_tubelist_tubes_FM1000-9006.html


----------



## JazzVinyl

rnros said:


> You're not the first, doubt you'll be the last, to break a tube in one of the bad Chinese EL/AZ sockets.
> Sure you can get a refund. And you won't be the first on that either.
> 
> Bottom line is that Mrs X had some adapters fabricated with a bad batch of these EL/AZ/FDD adapters.
> ...



Sent a note to the guy in Germany who I bought the EL8's from...that one base was a bit loose and then fell apart trying to get it in the socket.
He said no problem, and is sending a repl tube.

So, great service from seller:  Juppi2222


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> OK here is were I get most of my tubes from. Good pricing  6F8G  $18   6C8G  $7   1633 $4  And Stan is a great guy
> http://www.esrcvacuumtubes.com/vacuumtubes_tubelist_tubes_6d4-6jz8.html
> http://www.esrcvacuumtubes.com/vacuumtubes_tubelist_tubes_6A3-6CZ5.html
> http://www.esrcvacuumtubes.com/vacuumtubes_tubelist_tubes_FM1000-9006.html



Thanks!


----------



## rnros (Oct 31, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Sent a note to the guy in Germany who I bought the EL8's from...that one base was a bit loose and then fell apart trying to get it in the socket.
> He said no problem, and is sending a repl tube.
> 
> So, great service from seller:  Juppi2222



Nice. Good seller indeed.

Hopefully Mrs X will also come through quickly and without hassle.
She did for me. I did tell her how much I appreciated her good work on all the other adapters I bought.


----------



## mordy (Oct 31, 2018)

rnros said:


> 6N22P? No.
> 
> Designation would make it a 6V dual triode, 7 or 9 pin small bottle, but the 22,,, IDK.
> 
> ...


Hi rnros,
Here are my research sources: Radiomuseum and eBay.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6n22p.html
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=6n22p&_sacat=0

It looks like this is a Chinese made 6080 clone - triple mica.
Based on my reading, Chinese tubes, with the exception of some PSvane variants, don't get much love.


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> Thanks!





Phantaminum said:


> Do try out some of the 6C8Gs. Mostly cheaper and pretty much sound the same as the 6SN7/6F8Gs. I think the only caveat with them is that they may not last as long as the 6F8Gs but i’m not sure if that holds true.
> 
> How did you like the 6336b + RCAs?
> 
> I’d love to send you my FDD20. They sound powerful with the 6336Bs. It’s hard to find them now.


Hi Phantaminum,
I have one FDD20 that was adapted with an octal socket with leads for 12V external power - have been lazy to connect it, especially since I have a Mullard ECC31 that sounds very similar and is just plug and play with an adapter.
I really enjoy the RCA 6F8G with the 6336B tubes. A very clear presentation with an even FR across and some sub bass.
Re tubes lasting, I cannot remember wearing out a tube yet. A few were lost being defective, or broke when dropping them on the floor.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi rnros,
> Here are my research sources: Radiomuseum and eBay.
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6n22p.html
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?
> ...



OK, and I just assumed it was Russian! So far, I have zero experience with Chinese tubes. Thanks for info.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 31, 2018)

Early 1940’s Visseaux 6N7G and 5998’s...

I loved my Visseaux 6N7G’s in my old amp, but lordy...I had not _even_ heard what they were capable of....

In Glenn’s amp...

WAY BETTER, Y’ALL...!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Trivia question: If a tube has the letters MR on the base, when was it made?



I always thought MR meant somthing else:

“tubes with the M-R code which is generally accepted as Maintenance & Repair”


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Just got the 6bx7’s and there is punch, Smack and blam for days


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I always thought MR meant somthing else:
> 
> “tubes with the M-R code which is generally accepted as Maintenance & Repair”


The question was what years you can find the letters MR on the tube bases?
(I may have to tell Google...)


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> The question was what years you can find the letters MR on the tube bases?
> (I may have to tell Google...)



I thought the question was what date does MR signify


----------



## JazzVinyl

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> Just got the 6bx7’s and there is punch, Smack and blam for days



Have you tried flat plate 6BL7's?  More Slam, plus blam and smack


----------



## Oskari

Xcalibur255 said:


> I've seen that name before, but I'm not aware of the baggage you are apparently referring to.





gibosi said:


> https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubes&m=275412


Also: https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=tubes&m=271138


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> I have one FDD20 that was adapted with an octal socket with leads for 12V external power - have been lazy to connect it, especially since I have a Mullard ECC31 that sounds very similar and is just plug and play with an adapter.
> I really enjoy the RCA 6F8G with the 6336B tubes. A very clear presentation with an even FR across and some sub bass.
> Re tubes lasting, I cannot remember wearing out a tube yet. A few were lost being defective, or broke when dropping them on the floor.



Agreed.

I find the 6336Bs a little bright and like to pair them with the more laid back RCAs. I haven’t burned in the 6336Bs to the extent that you have but i’m hoping for a good change. What did you experience with once they’re were burned in?


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I find the 6336Bs a little bright and like to pair them with the more laid back RCAs. I haven’t burned in the 6336Bs to the extent that you have but i’m hoping for a good change. What did you experience with once they’re were burned in?


In general I find the Cetron 6336B tubes very neutral. They have the ability to serve as a platform for almost anything you throw at them, and bring out the best characteristics of the driver tube.
With some tubes they are brighter and with others more mellow - depends on the tube. And if the sound is too bright, I turn down my treble control a little (only works with my speakers).
I also find that the sound is a little different through speakers than directly to my headphones (mainly using T1 one), but I guess that this is expected since the signal from the GOTL then goes through a ss preamp  section and power amp. 
Ordered several 6CF8 tubes to try - NU, K-R, RCA, Syl and maybe a GE (Dumont).


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Nov 1, 2018)

Your amp looks pretty darn cool like that Craig.


----------



## felix3650

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> Just got the 6bx7’s and there is punch, Smack and blam for days


That's some major kick-a** amp you got there Craig! Just love the ambience and how it blends with it  



JazzVinyl said:


> Have you tried flat plate 6BL7's?  More Slam, plus blam and smack



Better 6x 6BX7 or 4x 6BL7? How much does the sound differ? Yup I'm debating if going for a wooden base with only 4 tube slots or the full blown 9 slots "get crazy rolling or get lost" variant!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Xcalibur255 said:


> Your amp looks pretty darn cool like that Craig.





felix3650 said:


> That's some major kick-a** amp you got there Craig! Just love the ambience and how it blends with it
> 
> 
> 
> Better 6x 6BX7 or 4x 6BL7? How much does the sound differ? Yup I'm debating if going for a wooden base with only 4 tube slots or the full blown 9 slots "get crazy rolling or get lost" variant!



Thanks guys! That’s my salt lamp making that ambience. I always put it on the nights I fire the Glenn up. It’s like a Pavlov’s dog thing to get my brain ready for sweet tuneage

I believe I tried my buddies  6BL7’s but they were noiser then the 6BX7’s he had. Maybe I gotta give em a shot again!


----------



## felix3650

Oh yeah please do and report back. I'm really curious now and also gathering info!


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> In general I find the Cetron 6336B tubes very neutral. They have the ability to serve as a platform for almost anything you throw at them, and bring out the best characteristics of the driver tube.
> With some tubes they are brighter and with others more mellow - depends on the tube. And if the sound is too bright, I turn down my treble control a little (only works with my speakers).
> I also find that the sound is a little different through speakers than directly to my headphones (mainly using T1 one), but I guess that this is expected since the signal from the GOTL then goes through a ss preamp  section and power amp.
> Ordered several 6CF8 tubes to try - NU, K-R, RCA, Syl and maybe a GE (Dumont).



I've been thinking about purchasing a Loki for a while now and maybe I should just finally do it. It'll help me with controlling bass, mids, and highs better. 

Did you mean the 6C8Gs Mordy? If you did hope you enjoy them! Good tubes at a cheap price.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I've been thinking about purchasing a Loki for a while now and maybe I should just finally do it. It'll help me with controlling bass, mids, and highs better.
> 
> Did you mean the 6C8Gs Mordy? If you did hope you enjoy them! Good tubes at a cheap price.



The Loki mini got me interested too.


----------



## mordy

Hi P,
Sorry for the typo - must have been thinking about the multiplication factor difference between the 6F8G and 6C8G. Yes, I ordered a couple of 6C8G tubes.
I have an old Outlaw Receiver RR2150 and you can disconnect the preamp from the amp by removing two jumpers. I am using the preamp section for tone controls but I don't know how to connect it to work for headphones directly out of the GOTL (the headphone jack on the RR2150 does not sound anywhere as good as out from the GOTL).
Read up on the Loki and it seems like a good idea but I don't know how much of a difference it makes compared to what I have now.
I am very aware that for years purists have been saying that tone controls are verboten, but I have used tone controls for years because a lot of the music I like (old jazz)  is not well recorded and I need to make adjustments.


----------



## mordy

Here is the next 6F8G tube I am trying out:




On the tube base on the bottom are the letters M-R  -  Manufacturer Replacement.
During WW2 most of the electronic production went for the war effort. A War Production Board was established that issued quotas for consumer goods use, and this is what M-R signifies - a tube that was meant for civilian use. This board existed between 1942-1945.
The designation C5 probably means March 1945, but sometimes the monthly code spanned two months, so it may mean May-June 1945.
If a tube says M-R it was made between 1942-45.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Production_Board


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> The Loki mini got me interested too.



Why not use the software EQ that many digital players have? Some digital players also offer many other types tweaks to the stream of ones and zeros, too.


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> Better 6x 6BX7 or 4x 6BL7? How much does the sound differ? Yup I'm debating if going for a wooden base with only 4 tube slots or the full blown 9 slots "get crazy rolling or get lost" variant!



Forgone conclusion. You will get the 6 x 6bx7gt and a Mullard ECC35 and be prepared to be very very afraid because your music will never be the same again.

This is my best pic.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Why not use the software EQ that many digital players have? Some digital players also offer many other types tweaks to the stream of ones and zeros, too.



Because physical knobs are just more satisfying than digital buttons. 

On the other hand, I like what I am hearing now so I don't know if I wanted tone controls. I tried Sonarworks for a while and decided that I like it without.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> Forgone conclusion. You will get the 6 x 6bx7gt and a Mullard ECC35 and be prepared to be very very afraid because your music will never be the same again.
> 
> This is my best pic.



Oh I like that!! I like it but sh** isn't that tube expensive..


----------



## mordy

felix3650 said:


> Oh I like that!! I like it but sh** isn't that tube expensive..


How about this seller from Peru:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-ECC35-...=item33f86e3622:g:-rAAAOSwY2Jb2Tlm:rk:19:pf:0
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-ECC35-...=item33f86e3622:g:-rAAAOSwY2Jb2Tlm:rk:19:pf:0
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-ECC35-...=item33f86e3622:g:-rAAAOSwY2Jb2Tlm:rk:19:pf:0
The first two offers are for pairs - $170 and $160
The third offer is for three tubes for $90 - don't know if these are the real thing.
Caveat Emptor


----------



## mordy

Continuing our tube rolling exercise. But first a word about the 1945 Raytheon 6F8G:
_*Unremarkable*_.
That sums it up - not bad and not special; just doing it's job.
Next up is a gorgeous looking tube that looks like it was made yesterday - a Philco (Sylvania) 6F8G. The date code is 89. If nobody tells me anything different my guess is August 1949.
First impression is full bodied sound with good bass.


----------



## mordy

Looks like somebody just bought one of the ECC35 pairs.....


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Looks like somebody just bought one of the ECC35 pairs.....


Good price from a good seller for those 60's tubes. The 50's will usually cost you a lot more.


----------



## 2359glenn

Got a pair of EL8s today that @rnros sent me today. Surprised how small they are will try them over the weekend.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Good price from a good seller for those 60's tubes. The 50's will usually cost you a lot more.



It would be very hard to beat Ecc35 and 6 x 6bx7gt. I await your getting the GOTL because I want to your impressions on the Ecc** tubes in the OTL amp. 

Everything was fine with my listening session until I decide to use Jotunheim as preamp to GOTL. It is now electrifying with tons of PRAT. 

Yggdrasil (dac) > Jotunheim (preamp) > GOTL.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> It would be very hard to beat Ecc35 and 6 x 6bx7gt. I await your getting the GOTL because I want to your impressions on the Ecc** tubes in the OTL amp.
> 
> Everything was fine with my listening session until I decide to use Jotunheim as preamp to GOTL. It is now electrifying with tons of PRAT.
> 
> Yggdrasil (dac) > Jotunheim (preamp) > GOTL.



So more Schiit feeding the GOTL now hahahha


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 3, 2018)

Nice to see folks determining thier favorite tube combo in GOTL. 

For me, it is Ken-Rad VT-231 plus C3g’s for drivers and 5998 for powers.  This is with SENN 580’s w/silver cable. 

Like this so much better than SENN 650’s that I think the 650’s will be sold off. 

  

.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice to see folks determining thier favorite tube combo in GOTL.
> 
> For me, it is Ken-Rad VT-231 plus C3g’s for drivers and 5998 for powers.  This is with SENN 580’s w/silver cable.
> 
> ...


You know what, I don’t find the Ken Rad to be too special. I wonder if it needs the right combo to shine?

Never used it with C3g’s (have yet to get some) or 5998’s though. 

Any other rolls that people seem to like with the Ken Rad VT-231?

(By the way I prefer the ecc31 over the VT-231)


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Because physical knobs are just more satisfying than digital buttons.



Sounds like you should try a media player that enables remote operation via a phone app...


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 3, 2018)

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> You know what, I don’t find the Ken Rad to be too special. I wonder if it needs the right combo to shine?
> 
> Never used it with C3g’s (have yet to get some) or 5998’s though.
> 
> ...



Hello BNC -

Yes, the "special" in the VT-231 in GOTL (for me) came when I combined it with the C3g's and 5998's.

I did not use it when I had the six pack of BX/BL7's.  In that case the Sylvania 6SN7W reigned supreme.  If I listen via ECC31, I like the Mullard 6080's or 5998's better than the six pack as well.

Also, as I have been saying, this particular combo just happens to favor a pair of 'phones that I own.  Would not be surprised it every other quality HP is not as impressed. 

In my case, this is heaven with the Senn 580's but not so with the Senn 650's...the Senn 580 being much flatter than the V-Shaped response of the 650's.

I supposed this tube combo is V-Shaped and works well with the flatter response phones but is TOO MUCH VEE for V-Shaped 'phones??

In the end, it is what works with your gear that counts, 'eh?

Cheers


----------



## attmci (Nov 3, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello BNC -
> 
> Yes, the "special" in the VT-231 in GOTL (for me) came when I combined it with the C3g's and 5998's.
> 
> ...



Senn 580? You must be ....... LOL

I won't get rid of the 650. It's a very very nice headphone (with after market cable like "silver dragon") I can live with if my other toys failed.

Sorry, I try to avoid post here because I am a non-owner.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 3, 2018)

attmci said:


> Senn 580? You must be ....... LOL
> 
> I won't get rid of the 650. It's a very very nice headphone (with after market cable like "silver dragon") I can live with if my other toys failed.
> 
> Sorry, I try to avoid post here because I am a non-owner.



I didn't say the 650's were not quality headphones, I said I preferred my highly modded / 99.7% pure silver cabled,  HD580's...


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> It would be very hard to beat Ecc35 and 6 x 6bx7gt. I await your getting the GOTL because I want to your impressions on the Ecc** tubes in the OTL amp.
> 
> Everything was fine with my listening session until I decide to use Jotunheim as preamp to GOTL. It is now electrifying with tons of PRAT.
> 
> Yggdrasil (dac) > Jotunheim (preamp) > GOTL.


Got plenty of tubes waiting for the GOTL. 

In regards to preamps, I've been waiting for a rainy day to open up my preamp and roll in some 12AX7 tubes into the MC and line stages. Today is the day.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Got plenty of tubes waiting for the GOTL.
> 
> In regards to preamps, I've been waiting for a rainy day to open up my preamp and roll in some 12AX7 tubes into the MC and line stages. Today is the day.



Just snowed here. But has stopped and the sun is out.  

A good quality 12AU7 and six pack of 6BL7 is superb in this amp, also:




You are a 12AU7 Guru, Leftside...what do you think of Japanese made 12AU7’s that were made in the mid 1950’s?


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> You are a 12AU7 Guru, Leftside...what do you think of Japanese made 12AU7’s that were made in the mid 1950’s?


I'm no expert - but my friend is. He highly recommends Matsushita although I don't have any. This "friend" has had me spending way too much on tubes this year... but thankfully I've slowed down again recently.


----------



## rnros (Nov 3, 2018)

mordy said:


> Next up is a gorgeous looking tube that looks like it was made yesterday - a Philco (Sylvania) 6F8G. The date code is 89. If nobody tells me anything different my guess is August 1949.
> First impression is full bodied sound with good bass.



Hi Mordy,
Had similar impression of the Sylvania 6C8G, both looks and sound, but never did give it enough time to see if there was more there.

Speaking of giving tubes enough time... I know they are not all the same, some only need 20 hrs to settle and shine, others are still dumb at 100 hrs.
You had mentioned the EL32s previously, I have those, but still no adapters. However, by all accounts and visual comparison, the EL2s are the same tube with different base.
(EL2 has the same base as EL3N and EL8.) Put the EL2s in the GOTL determined to leave them there long enough for a fair evaluation.
Very nice tube, even handed across the FR, reaches deep into sub bass with excellent control, nice top end, shows a lot of potential.
Had some issues with instrument timbre, especially string and brass, but assumed that would change.
But after about 90 hrs, still waiting for it to deliver top tier performance. It was getting boring... just waiting, let it play on and on, without listening.

Finally, pulled it out, put in a FIVRE 6N7G GrayGlass. And immediately stunned by the difference.
Of course, I already knew what the FIVRE could do, but the comparison was shocking.
To double check my perception, pulled out the FIVRE and put in an EL8 duo. Again, stunning, concert hall realism, in all it's force and nuance.

Not giving up on the EL2s, I know the EL32s have performed well for some folks with different amps, and after hundreds of hours.
Maybe the best way is set up a dedicated burning station, so you still have an amp for listening.
I'll get back to them. Maybe will also find adapters for the EL32s.


----------



## rnros

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> You know what, I don’t find the Ken Rad to be too special. I wonder if it needs the right combo to shine?
> 
> Never used it with C3g’s (have yet to get some) or 5998’s though.
> 
> ...



Also a big fan of the ECC31, I do think it depends a lot on the gear, music and recording preferences, and also expectations.
Lost an ECC31 recently, very upsetting, had lots of time on the tube, sounded great.
Happy to have a backup!


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Senn 580? You must be ....... LOL
> 
> I won't get rid of the 650. It's a very very nice headphone (with after market cable like "silver dragon") I can live with if my other toys failed.
> 
> Sorry, I try to avoid post here because I am a non-owner.


Hi attmci,
I don't think that you have to be an owner to post - on the contrary, I think that there are many common themes and we can all learn from each other.


----------



## mordy

Speaking of giving tubes enough time... I know they are not all the same, some only need 20 hrs to settle and shine, others are still dumb at 100 hrs.
You had mentioned the EL32s previously, I have those, but still no adapters. However, by all accounts and visual comparison, the EL2s are the same tube with different base.
(EL2 has the same base as EL3N and EL8.) Put the EL2s in the GOTL determined to leave them there long enough for a fair evaluation.
Very nice tube, even handed across the FR, reaches deep into sub bass with excellent control, nice top end, shows a lot of potential.
Had some issues with instrument timbre, especially string and brass, but assumed that would change.
But after about 90 hrs, still waiting for it to deliver top tier performance. It was getting boring... just waiting, let it play on and on, without listening.

Finally, pulled it out, put in a FIVRE 6N7G GrayGlass. And immediately stunned by the difference.
Of course, I already knew what the FIVRE could do, but the comparison was shocking.
To double check my perception, pulled out the FIVRE and put in an EL8 duo. Again, stunning, concert hall realism, in all it's force and nuance.

Not giving up on the EL2s, I know the EL32s have performed well for some folks with different amps, and after hundreds of hours.
Maybe the best way is set up a dedicated burning station, so you still have an amp for listening.
I'll get back to them. Maybe will also find adapters for the EL32s.[/QUOTE]
Hi rnros,
I agree with you that you have to give the tubes time to burn in to be able to make a fair comparison. But I don't have the patience to wait 50 hours with each tube.....Some tubes really change a lot after an extended time, but IMHO most tubes come into their own after 30-50 hours. But there are always exceptions - could be that larger tubes that draw very little current need much more time, measured in hundreds of hours.
When I try out a new promising tube, I usually purchase a couple of different ones to see which brand I like. Looking in the bargain bins I never know if the tubes are NOS are used. There does not seem to be much demand for 6C8G tubes, and I just paid around $5.50 each incl shipping for a lot of four, but they did not arrive yet.
In general, the 6F8G/6C8G tubes look very well made. I must say that I am predisposed to expect better sound from ST tubes (maybe a myth). 
Also find it fascinating to decode the information on the tubes and the boxes (if supplied).
ATM I took a break from the 6F8G tubes and I am listening to a National Union 6C8G from March, 1945 ($18 shipped - bought it because I think Glenn mentioned that he liked the 6F8G NU if I remember correctly). 
The box has a square printed on it that says 
                       S C
                       359
                         A
Some people have suggested that SC means Signal Corps. The 359A is the code for a quality control inspector (think OTK as in Russian tubes).
Then it says Order No. 30352-P-45-72. Don't know what the beginning of this line means, but my guess is that 45-72 means the 72nd day of 1945, which comes out to March 13, if I am correct.
VT-163 is a military bookkeeping designation for 6C8G. Then it say Stock #2J 6C8G - don't know what 2J means.
This tube sounds very good with a strong non-intrusive well articulated bass.
Have fun!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

rnros said:


> Also a big fan of the ECC31, I do think it depends a lot on the gear, music and recording preferences, and also expectations.
> Lost an ECC31 recently, very upsetting, had lots of time on the tube, sounded great.
> Happy to have a backup!


Ugh  that would hurt my heart if that happened to me! 

Glad you had a spare


----------



## mordy

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> Ugh  that would hurt my heart if that happened to me!
> 
> Glad you had a spare


I assume it happens to all of us - you drop a tube or it rolls off the table etc.
I know somebody who dropped a GEC 6AS7G....
Makes you appreciate the Russian Fotons - I dropped one and nothing happened. Not the same with the NU 6SN7 or Chartham 6AS7 etc. etc.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I assume it happens to all of us - you drop a tube or it rolls off the table etc.
> I know somebody who dropped a GEC 6AS7G....
> Makes you appreciate the Russian Fotons - I dropped one and nothing happened. Not the same with the NU 6SN7 or Chartham 6AS7 etc. etc.....



Have not broken a tube in more than a year (Knock On Wood).

But, will say, there is a nice advantage to the 9 pin miniatures...they almost never bust open if ya butter finger them  

...
Listening to Zappa's classic 3-CD set: "Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar"


----------



## 2359glenn

Just replaced EL3N with EL8 in preamp duty.
The EL3N has more gain and I think the EL3N sounds better but only been listening to the EL8s for a 1/2 hour.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Just replaced EL3N with EL8 in preamp duty.
> The EL3N has more gain and I think the EL3N sounds better but only been listening to the EL8s for a 1/2 hour.



Over on the Feliks thread the latest wunder tube, after the EL32, is the EL38/CV450/6CN6 at 1.4A. But whereas the EL32 is easy to find and less than $6, the EL38 is rare and costs from $63-100.
When does it end?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Over on the Feliks thread the latest wunder tube, after the EL32, is the EL38/CV450/6CN6 at 1.4A. But whereas the EL32 is easy to find and less than $6, the EL38 is rare and costs from $63-100.
> When does it end?



There is no end many many tubes that can be used for audio but to find the ones that sound good.
EL8 still sounding thin will give it a few days.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi rnros,
> I agree with you that you have to give the tubes time to burn in to be able to make a fair comparison. But I don't have the patience to wait 50 hours with each tube.....
> _....._
> There does not seem to be much demand for 6C8G tubes, and I just paid around $5.50 each incl shipping for a lot of four, but they did not arrive yet.
> ...



Hi mordy,
LOL Well, that pretty much describes me also, not one to give a new tube much time if it doesn't impress in the first day or so.
But since this one has had some good reviews with more than a few folks, curiosity and due diligence pushed me on.
And it obviously is a great tube for those individuals, my time so far is just one data point on my own setup with one pair of tubes.
Tubes look good, like true NOS, who knows. Add it to the mystery list. Major point is that it is a different amp.

On the National Union, below is a pic of the couple I have, one mil spec, the other civilian. Also shown next to a civilian NU 6F8G.
I think the Order No. identifies the contract the tube was purchased under. I have some Ken Rads that have the same box and Order No., but the tubes inside vary by the date stamp on the tube base. In this case, by a year. But that is just a guess.
Note that the Mil Spec 6C8G and the 6F8G both have the separate support rods (which are also the anode rods, but tied to the plates above the top mica).


----------



## rnros

A few different 6C8Gs: Ken-Rad, National Union, Sylvania, Tung Sol, RCA.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> I assume it happens to all of us - you drop a tube or it rolls off the table etc.
> I know somebody who dropped a GEC 6AS7G....
> Makes you appreciate the Russian Fotons - I dropped one and nothing happened. Not the same with the NU 6SN7 or Chartham 6AS7 etc. etc.....



Honest, I didn't break it! Someone went into the driver tube box and... 
Seriously, I went to fetch the tube, wrapped carefully in bubble wrap and I felt it was broken. AAAGH!
Only 6 or 8 driver tubes in a small box. LOL Worse when you have no idea how it happened!
Almost looks like it decided to split perfectly all around the tube. Odd.


----------



## mordy

Rounding up my 6F8G odyssey. Today is TS day. I have two such tubes, both flat plates (and not BRP, but they are supposed to sound the same).
One is branded Tung Sol, the other Radiocoin. The TS has a date code of 22 (Feb 1942? - I really don't know), and the Radiocoin has no markings.
This tube is the reason I bought the 6F8G tubes. It is supposed to be a predecessor of the 6SN7GT BGRP and sound the same. In order to get this pair of TS tubes I had to buy the Raytheon and Sylvania since they were sold as a lot. I also acquired a Ken-Rad and RCA 6F8G.
In my old amp the TS sounded great, but in the GOTL I found it to be too polite and laid back. It is a buttery, creamy presentation, but lacks slam at the bottom and bite in the treble.
I really thought that the Tung Sols would win this shootout - maybe they would pair better with 6x6BX7 than 2x6336B - that will be another project.
So which tube became the winner in this trial? The RCA 6F8G - with the best combination of FR and timbre, slam and bite. 
Just to be sure, I briefly revisited the tubes. The K-R had the strongest bass but was too bright in the treble. The Sylvania is very nice and a strong 2nd place. Raytheon is last.
*YMMV*


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> Just replaced EL3N with EL8 in preamp duty.
> The EL3N has more gain and I think the EL3N sounds better but only been listening to the EL8s for a 1/2 hour.





2359glenn said:


> There is no end many many tubes that can be used for audio but to find the ones that sound good.
> EL8 still sounding thin will give it a few days.



Don't think it will change much, pretty much shows it's stuff from the beginning. Plus, I checked that pair, so they already some time on them.
EL3N is definitely a harder driving tube. Love them both driving Cetron6336Bs in the GOTL. 
But EL3Ns as drivers in the GOTL/CTN 6336B are pushing the current demand too far, unfortunately.
(OK, if you have SS rectification.)


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> Hi mordy,
> LOL Well, that pretty much describes me also, not one to give a new tube much time if it doesn't impress in the first day or so.
> But since this one has had some good reviews with more than a few folks, curiosity and due diligence pushed me on.
> And it obviously is a great tube for those individuals, my time so far is just one data point on my own setup with one pair of tubes.
> ...


Hi rnros,
My NU 6C8G looks identical to yours but the box is stamped 1945. Is this what you mean about the anode rods tied to the plates?



(Just figured out how to use the red markers on my phone - pardon the appearance....)


----------



## rnros

@mordy 
Yes, my box also 1945. Yes, on connection.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> Don't think it will change much, pretty much shows it's stuff from the beginning. Plus, I checked that pair, so they already some time on them.
> EL3N is definitely a harder driving tube. Love them both driving Cetron6336Bs in the GOTL.
> But EL3Ns as drivers in the GOTL/CTN 6336B are pushing the current demand too far, unfortunately.
> (OK, if you have SS rectification.)



They are sounding pretty good right now. They have been on all afternoon.

I am not a believer in burn in I think your brain gets used to the sound and the sound of the parts don't change.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> They are sounding pretty good right now. They have been on all afternoon.
> 
> I am not a believer in burn in I think your brain gets used to the sound and the sound of the parts don't change.



You could be right about burn in, except when it BUZZZEZ.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> They are sounding pretty good right now. They have been on all afternoon.
> 
> I am not a believer in burn in I think your brain gets used to the sound and the sound of the parts don't change.


I am trying to understand what you are saying. Leaving burn-in on the side, do you think that a tube may need to warm up to sound it's best?
A an example, I get the impression that the heavy graphite 6336 need to be on 20-30 minutes before they sound good; other tubes need less time.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> I am trying to understand what you are saying. Leaving burn-in on the side, do you think that a tube may need to warm up to sound it's best?
> A an example, I get the impression that the heavy graphite 6336 need to be on 20-30 minutes before they sound good; other tubes need less time.



I think Glenn meant that burn in (40+ hours) is really a mental thing. Your ears and mind get used to the sound.

From experience I’ve had Tung Sols that have sounded closed in and shrill right off the bat. After about 40 hours they open up and just sound so better. Holographic and easier on the ears. 

Same with the 6BX7s. Did not like them at first but kept them in to roll tubes. After a good amount of time they just sounded so much smoother and became punchy. Was not expecting that. 

I do find that the nuclear reactors (6336Bs) do need at least 20 minutes before they sound their best. They sound a little bright to me before they settle down at the top end.

Could be pyschoaucostic at play here.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm glad the days of tube rolling is over for me. I'm still using my OTL amp every night but I'm listening to music now rather than try to suss out the tonality of tubes.

I too don't believe in excessive tubes burn in. Some hours of burn in is required but if you're saying 100s of hours, I'd agree that's more of your brain being burn in to the sound.

My 6 x 6bx7gt tubes are sufficiently 'burn in'. I'm at a stage where I just enjoy my music and the GOTL is amazing at producing that - music to my ears. Using the Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp and this is an incredible driver in GOTL. 

I love my GOTL. It's a very powerful amp. It will drive my hd800, lcd-2f and my previously Eikon and Atticus to very loud insane level. I definitely won't call this amp neutral. It's has sufficient tube warmth and lushness but it's not overly so. In fact, it's leaning towards more slam and impact rather than outright euphony. I like it this way. There's bite to the tone. There's excitement.

Enjoy your GOTL !


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I'm glad the days of tube rolling is over for me. I'm still using my OTL amp every night but I'm listening to music now rather than try to suss out the tonality of tubes.
> 
> I too don't believe in excessive tubes burn in. Some hours of burn in is required but if you're saying 100s of hours, I'd agree that's more of your brain being burn in to the sound.
> 
> ...



Maybe when the amp is new some of the electrolytic capacitors need time to form and sound crappy. But I do at least a 24hr burn in before I ship and that should have taken care of it.
Tubes maybe some of them the 6336 does sound best when it is HOT HOT.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Nov 5, 2018)

Schiit Yggdrasil owners:  if you haven't upgraded to Analog B yet I highly recommend it.  It's a more organic sound than before.  Instrument timbres improved a lot and on the whole it just brought the overall realism to new level.

I got mine back a few weeks ago, and it feels like it is fully settled in now.  I also got the Gen 5 USB card (mine had the Gen 3), and since that is my primary input (I know, I know, but the library on the PC is too convenient) it definitely is a contributor to the new sound too.  Honestly it may have been a bigger influence than the analog card upgrade.  There were obvious issues with the old USB card.  I don't know if it was jitter or something else, but it sounded harsh and had a lot of glare in the treble range compared to playing a CD through coax.

Now, though........... oh man.  I've been fighting a war against harshness and glare in audio for most of my life and now I'm trying to wrap my head around how it feels to have finally won it.  I hate to use the term "smooth" because I think the goal should be "real."  If the music sounds real then neither harsh nor smooth should be applicable words.  Real is real.

After upgrading the Yggdrasil the music sounds real to me now.  Finally.  

I know there are a couple other Yggy owners around here so I thought I would offer some thoughts on the value of the upgrade.


----------



## UntilThen

I was hoping the upgrade wouldn't be as significant as spending $1165 aussie dollars for both those 2 upgrades isn't just a penny drop.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Nov 5, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I was hoping the upgrade wouldn't be as significant as spending $1165 aussie dollars for both those 2 upgrades isn't just a penny drop.



Yeah, it's a lot.  Even domestically it cost me around $750.  I think it was well worth that price.  If the difference were subtle I wouldn't recommend it to others, not for that much money.  But the improvement was very substantial for me.  This is why I made a point of mentioning the USB as well, because that might have been the smoking gun for me, not the Analog card.  Since I upgraded everything at once there's no way to know, but the combined effect of both upgrades really made a difference and put the whole system where I have always wanted it to be.  If I'm left wanting for anything, I haven't realized what that might be yet.

Harshness aside I do find the reproduction of timbre to be quite a bit better now, and that was probably the analog upgrade.  I didn't have a problem with the way it sounded before, but after hearing this I wouldn't be able to go back.


----------



## UntilThen

Tyrll what about details and clarity. Any noticeable differences after upgrade?


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> I think Glenn meant that burn in (40+ hours) is really a mental thing. Your ears and mind get used to the sound.
> 
> From experience I’ve had Tung Sols that have sounded closed in and shrill right off the bat. After about 40 hours they open up and just sound so better. Holographic and easier on the ears.
> 
> ...


Hi Phantaminum,
Been thinking about what Glenn, you, UT and others have said about burning in tubes.
First, I will try to put down some parameters that I think most everybody will agree with.
1) Some tubes need to warm up to sound their best.
2) Some tubes need to stay on for a while so that noises like pinging          and hum at start-up go away.
Now comes the gray area: Do tubes improve in sound over the first 20-50 hours?
My personal impression has been that some tubes change in this time period, and some very significantly. At times you reach that AHA moment when suddenly there is a noticeable difference for the better in sound.
At the same time there is definitively a psychoacoustic component where you need to take (a lot of) time to get used to a certain, preferred sound. 
Some tubes sound great at first, and then there is something niggling that bothers you, but hard to explain or pinpoint. 
Then there are other combinations that just sound right, hour after hour.
Go figure....
There are times when I feel that my humble system sounds better than at other times. You know those days when everything sounds bad and not satisfying....And those magical moments when it sounds so beautiful that you don't want to go to sleep......


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> Been thinking about what Glenn, you, UT and others have said about burning in tubes.
> First, I will try to put down some parameters that I think most everybody will agree with.
> 1) Some tubes need to warm up to sound their best.
> ...



I couldn't have put it in better words Mordy!


----------



## mordy

Fall foliage in tube glow colors:


----------



## JazzVinyl

Xcalibur255 said:


> Oh man.  I've been fighting a war against harshness and glare in audio for most of my life and now I'm trying to wrap my head around how it feels to have finally won it.  I hate to use the term "smooth" because I think the goal should be "real."  If the music sounds real then neither harsh nor smooth should be applicable words.  Real is real.
> 
> After upgrading the Yggdrasil the music sounds real to me now.  Finally.




WOW!  You sound like me, when I talk about Vinyl Reproduction!!


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> After upgrading the Yggdrasil the music sounds real to me now. Finally.



Yggdrasil is an incredible sounding dac. I had to hear it for myself and after living with it for almost a year, it is the building block of my setup. There have been lots of favourable reviews of the analog 2 and usb gen 5 upgrade. It has been my plan to have that upgrade, in addition to one more tube amp.

Looks like the upgrade will happen sooner rather than later for me.


----------



## 2359glenn

4:30am here listening to the Auteur good time for this. I get up for work at 3:30am to get a hour to drink coffee and listen to music.
First time listening to the phones with the EL8s in the chain and sounding good. I am surprised how good these sound.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn, you're using dual EL8 as drivers? What do you use for power tubes?

I'm using dual EL11s as drivers here with 6 x GE 6bx7gt and I'm just as surprised at how good they sound. Best of all, no noise.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn, you're using dual EL8 as drivers? What do you use for power tubes?
> 
> I'm using dual EL11s as drivers here with 6 x GE 6bx7gt and I'm just as surprised at how good they sound. Best of all, no noise.



Right now using Brimar 6080s sounding good. Just don't like that stupid dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter I am using for the EL8s looks like crap but works good.
Really surprised how good these power output pentodes sound as a driver. Really under utilizing them they should last forever in this service.


----------



## UntilThen

The dual EL** to 6sn7 adapters looks dreadful to me. I am wearing Zorro's mask because I can't bear to look at it. 

If I had to start over again, I would have ask you to build EL11 slots in place of the c3g slots because these Telefunken EL11s sounds amazing after 50 hours of usage.


----------



## lukeap69

Can't the EL8 be used in place of the C3g's with adapter?


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> 4:30am here listening to the Auteur good time for this. I get up for work at 3:30am to get a hour to drink coffee and listen to music.
> First time listening to the phones with the EL8s in the chain and sounding good. I am surprised how good these sound.



That's mighty early. Glenn!!

Waiting for a replacement EL8 here, still have not heard them. 

Agree that EL to 6SN7 adaptor is boooooo....and EL sockets instead of C3g would have been good option in GOTL.  

Here is the question for you, Glenn:  What DAC do you use?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Since UT announced a few messages ago, that he was no longer rolling anymore, was going to ask him which driver took the crown...ECC35?
But now he says EL11's are in....

Roll Roll Roll your boat, gently up the stream......merrily merrily merrily merrily - life is but a dream...


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Can't the EL8 be used in place of the C3g's with adapter?



Good question. Glenn can such an adapter be created? Worth talking to mrsxuling? Any special pins configuration?

Although another adapter for me might just tip me over the hill.


----------



## UntilThen (Nov 6, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Since UT announced a few messages ago, that he was no longer rolling anymore, was going to ask him which driver took the crown...ECC35?
> But now he says EL11's are in....
> 
> Roll Roll Roll your boat, gently up the stream......merrily merrily merrily merrily - life is but a dream...



I'm only changing drivers and that's like changing headphones for me.  So no, it's not tube rolling anymore.

Going from Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp to dual EL11s as drivers, I get a wall of sound. There's a big presence in the musical notes. High frequencies are also more subdue but not lacking. EL11s has similar traits to EL3Ns from memory of the EL3Ns but brighter, more details and clarity in the high frequencies.

ECC35 is still king as far as I'm concerned but there are others that are quite close behind and they are:-

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
GEC B36
ECC33
Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp (other TS bgrp included here)
ECC31
RCA 5691


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Good question. Glenn can such an adapter be created? Worth talking to mrsxuling? Any special pins configuration?
> 
> Although another adapter for me might just tip me over the hill.



This would be great. My adapter came in yesterday and the EL8s should be here today but the thing is quite....ugly. If there were c3gs to el8s that would keep the look clean instead of the amp looking like a Penrose staircase.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> 4:30am here listening to the Auteur good time for this. I get up for work at 3:30am to get a hour to drink coffee and listen to music.
> First time listening to the phones with the EL8s in the chain and sounding good. I am surprised how good these sound.


Hi Glenn,
Not sounding thin anymore?
Now, here is my question: Since I have the C3g pentode sockets in my GOTL, is there any technical/electrical limitation that prevents me from using pentodes such as EL2, EL3N, EL8, EL11/12, EL32 and EL38? The C3g draw 0.4A; some of the others up to 1.4A
I realize that side contact to loctal adapters and german steel to loctal adapters etc don't exist (yet), but I am sure that they could be made.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> This would be great. My adapter came in yesterday and the EL8s should be here today but the thing is quite....ugly. If there were c3gs to el8s that would keep the look clean instead of the amp looking like a Penrose staircase.



Now that you have the dual adapters, you can also try the EL3N tubes. Going from 6sn7 to EL11 or EL3N is like a shift from 6sn7 to 6n7g or FDD20 except it's a lot more change in tone.

Dual EL11 with 6 x 6bx7gt and hd800 sounds very good. It's a calming tone that I find very relaxing. I call it the 3am tone.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Now that you have the dual adapters, you can also try the EL3N tubes. Going from 6sn7 to EL11 or EL3N is like a shift from 6sn7 to 6n7g or FDD20 except it's a lot more change in tone.
> 
> Dual EL11 with 6 x 6bx7gt and hd800 sounds very good. It's a calming tone that I find very relaxing. I call it the 3am tone.



Hey UT,

I’d love to try the EL3Ns and EL11s. Do you happen to have the EL8s and if you do how to they compare to the other ELs?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> Not sounding thin anymore?
> Now, here is my question: Since I have the C3g pentode sockets in my GOTL, is there any technical/electrical limitation that prevents me from using pentodes such as EL2, EL3N, EL8, EL11/12, EL32 and EL38? The C3g draw 0.4A; some of the others up to 1.4A
> I realize that side contact to loctal adapters and german steel to loctal adapters etc don't exist (yet), but I am sure that they could be made.



you might have to put them into the 6SN7 socket. I highly dought you will get a adapter with a Loctal base. Heater current is not a issue.


----------



## 2359glenn

Look at these beauties I just won on E-Pay. Now I can convert my amp to all GEC amplification.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Tyrll what about details and clarity. Any noticeable differences after upgrade?



Yes it's better.  I just didn't find that to be the most significant change compared to the more organic presentation.  I think it creates a blacker background now which helps low level details come out better.  I'm hearing things in familiar recordings I haven't heard before.  It's funny how that can still happen no matter how expensive your system becomes.  There's always room for more improvement.  But like I said before it's timbre that jumps out at me as the best improvement.  Everything has more texture to it now, it makes it more true to life.

The way I judge gear is pretty simple these days:  how good a job does it do of making me forget I'm listening to a recording?  Glenn's 45 and the Yggy A2 do a really damn good job of that together.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Nice score Glenn.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Hey UT,
> 
> I’d love to try the EL3Ns and EL11s. Do you happen to have the EL8s and if you do how to they compare to the other ELs?



I don't have EL8. I won't be getting them or the EL3N adapters. Too many tubes in my life now. I'll get Yggy upgraded instead. 

I'll leave the comparison for you guys to do. I think rnros has already given some impressions of the EL8 vs EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Look at these beauties I just won on E-Pay. Now I can convert my amp to all GEC amplification.



I saw this and was going to alert you to it but you're aware of it no doubt. It was a good price when I saw it but the ending bid would have shot up. It looks to be in a very good shape physically. Congrats.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Yes it's better.  I just didn't find that to be the most significant change compared to the more organic presentation.  I think it creates a blacker background now which helps low level details come out better.  I'm hearing things in familiar recordings I haven't heard before.  It's funny how that can still happen no matter how expensive your system becomes.  There's always room for more improvement.  But like I said before it's timbre that jumps out at me as the best improvement.  Everything has more texture to it now, it makes it more true to life.
> 
> The way I judge gear is pretty simple these days:  how good a job does it do of making me forget I'm listening to a recording?  Glenn's 45 and the Yggy A2 do a really damn good job of that together.



Thanks for the impressions. Sounds like the upgrade is making Yggdrasil much better though that would be hard to imagine as I like Yggy as it is now. Will make arrangement with Addicted To Audio for the upgrade.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Look at these beauties I just won on E-Pay. Now I can convert my amp to all GEC amplification.


Congrats on getting a beautiful pair GEC 6AS7G!
I only use my pair on a sunny Sunday afternoon in the summer.....lol.
Curious of your listening impressions - these tubes have a very special energy to them.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi mordy, contrary to your impressions, I don't find the Gec 6as7g to be energised. Well I don't find them energised like the 5998. To my ears, they are very smooth, a very good texture, a slight tilt to a warm tone but never bright. They are very good tubes and if you find a good pair, it's never microphonic and without noise.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I saw this and was going to alert you to it but you're aware of it no doubt. It was a good price when I saw it but the ending bid would have shot up. It looks to be in a very good shape physically. Congrats.



After the bidding started I realized I know him he has one of my OTLs and the first 300B amp I sold.
I asked if they were new and he said they were and I can trust him so didn't  mind spending a bit.
They went for $400 a little steep more then I wanted to pay.
But I have seen that much for one.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Look at these beauties I just won on E-Pay. Now I can convert my amp to all GEC amplification.




Congrats


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Congrats



Thanks I hope they are worth it?


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> After the bidding started I realized I know him he has one of my OTLs and the first 300B amp I sold.
> I asked if they were new and he said they were and I can trust him so didn't  mind spending a bit.
> They went for $400 a little steep more then I wanted to pay.
> But I have seen that much for one.


Ah they went higher than I predicted. Great story that he has your first 300B. 

I now have my full allotment of GEC 6AS7G's and one to spare. Looking forward to being able to use them all together.

I sustained a concussion a few weeks ago in the Whistler bike park (cracked a helmet!), so haven't been listening to music too much lately. With the clocks going back and shorter days (I like listening at night) and the head recovered (just about!) I hope that soon changes.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> After the bidding started I realized I know him he has one of my OTLs and the first 300B amp I sold.
> I asked if they were new and he said they were and I can trust him so didn't  mind spending a bit.
> They went for $400 a little steep more then I wanted to pay.
> But I have seen that much for one.



$400 for a new pair is cheap by today’s standard.

Still much cheaper than a pair of Takasuki 300b


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> $400 for a new pair is cheap by today’s standard.
> 
> Still much cheaper than a pair of Takasuki 300b



I know cheaper then one Takasuki 300B cheaper then one Takasuki 274B when two HEXFREDS cost $2 and preform better.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Hi mordy, contrary to your impressions, I don't find the Gec 6as7g to be energised. Well I don't find them energised like the 5998. To my ears, they are very smooth, a very good texture, a slight tilt to a warm tone but never bright. They are very good tubes and if you find a good pair, it's never microphonic and without noise.


Hi UT,
Truth is that my impression pertained to the FA amps, and I have not used it much in the GOTL. And I only have a mediocre pair of the 5998 and don't use it much either.
But I do like very much the double/triple 6AS7 (6336B Cetron).
BTW, the build quality of the GEC 6AS7 is among the best that I have seen - oozing quality.


----------



## UntilThen

I wrote to mrsxuling about el11 to c3g adapter and this is her reply....

hi,please waiting few days i will design special circuit board for EL11 instead C3G adapter.but the adapter bottom have not key guide,i was fond China not have C3G base socket.
Thanks!

So there is hope for a key guideless adapter !


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I wrote to mrsxuling about el11 to c3g adapter and this is her reply....
> 
> hi,please waiting few days i will design special circuit board for EL11 instead C3G adapter.but the adapter bottom have not key guide,i was fond China not have C3G base socket.
> Thanks!
> ...



She will make it with the pins coming out of a circuit board.
So there is hope for this Just have to plug it in right.


----------



## UntilThen

If this works, I wouldn’t mind running EL11, EL3N, EL8. 

Just hope it will be a smart looking adapter not one with exposed circuit board and pins coming out.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> If this works, I wouldn’t mind running EL11, EL3N, EL8.
> 
> Just hope it will be a smart looking adapter not one with exposed circuit board and pins coming out.



This is a single EL11 to C3g adapter?
It should look OK most of her single tube adapters look good the two and 3 tube adapters look a little funky in the amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I'm only changing drivers and that's like changing headphones for me.  So no, it's not tube rolling anymore.
> 
> Going from Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp to dual EL11s as drivers, I get a wall of sound. There's a big presence in the musical notes. High frequencies are also more subdue but not lacking. EL11s has similar traits to EL3Ns from memory of the EL3Ns but brighter, more details and clarity in the high frequencies.
> 
> ...



Sounds good to me, UT...

Here is a triplet to try:


----------



## JazzVinyl

RIP to Roy Hargrove..

Passed last Friday...only 49 years old.  Was in a hosp in NYC, said he had kidney troubles for years but a heart attack took him.

Playing his "Habana" CD via the above mentioned triplet tube compliment...

Gets no better than this, people's...



.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> I wrote to mrsxuling about el11 to c3g adapter and this is her reply....
> 
> hi,please waiting few days i will design special circuit board for EL11 instead C3G adapter.but the adapter bottom have not key guide,i was fond China not have C3G base socket.
> Thanks!
> ...



That is a good news Matt. Thanks.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I wrote to mrsxuling about el11 to c3g adapter and this is her reply....
> 
> hi,please waiting few days i will design special circuit board for EL11 instead C3G adapter.but the adapter bottom have not key guide,i was fond China not have C3G base socket.
> Thanks!
> ...





UntilThen said:


> I wrote to mrsxuling about el11 to c3g adapter and this is her reply....
> 
> hi,please waiting few days i will design special circuit board for EL11 instead C3G adapter.but the adapter bottom have not key guide,i was fond China not have C3G base socket.
> Thanks!
> ...


Hi UT et al,
Funny, I emailed her the same question today and got the identical answer, but my query was more comprehensive:


"I have an amp (Glenn OTL) that uses either a single dual triode or two C3g tubes for drivers. Is it possible to make adapters for the C3g sockets for pentodes such as EL3 (side contact), EL11/12 (German Steel) and for other EL tubes such as EL2, EL3, EL 32, EL38?
In other words, as an example, EL11 top and loctal C3g on bottom? Or EL32 top and loctal C3g on bottom?"
There are two guys in Europe (Bulgaria and Poland) that make good adapters and at competitive prices; maybe I should ask them as well...
Perhaps they have access to C3g bases.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Thanks I hope they are worth it?



They are great tubes, sound is great with them across the whole spectrum.
I have not listened to mine in a long time, only used them for special listening sessions.
Glad you were able to find yourself a nice pair.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> This is a single EL11 to C3g adapter?
> It should look OK most of her single tube adapters look good the two and 3 tube adapters look a little funky in the amp.



Yes single EL11 to c3g adapter.

Really liking EL11 with 6bx7s now. Vocals have grown in size and stature. Not sure what's drawing me to this tone so much. A case of mids is king and everything? Stage have grown in height, depth and to a lesser extent width.


----------



## 2359glenn

The EZL11 will sound a little different in the C3g socket it is biased different then the 6SN7. Actually should sound better.
Listening to Jimi Hendrix Electric Lady Land what a way to start the morning.


----------



## UntilThen

I waited all day to come home to listen to these tubes and now you tell me they will sound even better in the c3g sockets. Mrs X better produce the adapters !


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I waited all day to come home to listen to these tubes and now you tell me they will sound even better in the c3g sockets. Mrs X better produce the adapters !



Might sound better?  The cathode resistor will be closer to being right. And have her wire it straight through as
a pentode. This way it will use the resistors i have in there for the C3g.


----------



## UntilThen

It will look better than this.  The sound as it is, is foot stomping good. For me, none of this would have meant anything if it isn't quiet and this combination is very quiet.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Loctal sockets are avail.  Loctal bases...not seeing them.  
Might have to bust open loctal tubes to get the bases. This will be labor intensive for Mrs Xu.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 7, 2018)

5998 and C3g sounds so good in this amp....Will be interesting to see if an EL anything can improve things...

C3g is presenting subtle details, with carefully crafted, custom fitted velvet gloves.


----------



## felix3650

Ooo, interesting new combos here (2x EL11 + 6x 6BX7GT). Keep the impressions coming UT. I'm intrigued by this setup.

Three drivers I've written down as must try (have):
· Sylvania 6SN7W metal base
· Mullard ECC35
· 2x EL11

I lean more on the dynamic driver side of headphones so high power tubes I can skip easily. Btw guys/Glenn, do the preamp out impart the same tube sound or it's just a passthrough?

Also for Glenn, what dimensions does the wooden base have? Smaller than the metal one?


----------



## mordy

felix3650 said:


> Ooo, interesting new combos here (2x EL11 + 6x 6BX7GT). Keep the impressions coming UT. I'm intrigued by this setup.
> 
> Three drivers I've written down as must try (have):
> · Sylvania 6SN7W metal base
> ...


I have the GOTL with preamp out - it is the same sound.


----------



## 2359glenn

felix3650 said:


> Ooo, interesting new combos here (2x EL11 + 6x 6BX7GT). Keep the impressions coming UT. I'm intrigued by this setup.
> 
> Three drivers I've written down as must try (have):
> · Sylvania 6SN7W metal base
> ...



It is smaller then the metal one but I can't put as many options like 6 output tube sockets for 6BX7s not enough room.


----------



## felix3650

2359glenn said:


> It is smaller then the metal one but I can't put as many options like 6 output tube sockets for 6BX7s not enough room.


Do you have any approx. dimensions? I'm thinking of stacking it with my (upcoming) Holo Cyan which is 10.2" x 11".
If you put two sockets for the output tubes would those 3-to-1 adapters work with 3x 6BX7s per channel? Can 5 sockets in total fit? Like 1 for the driver, 2 for C3g and 2 for outputs.


----------



## 2359glenn (Nov 7, 2018)

here are the outer dimensions.

Metal chassis
Wide  12.59"
Deep  12"
High 2.75"  not including height of tubes and transformer

Wood
Wide  13"
Deep  10"
High   3"  not including height of tubes and transformer

Even though they are close to the same size the wood is allot smaller inside due to the thickness of the wood.
It is best to not use adapters
Also I can change the Loctal socket for the C3g to a socket for the EL11. But I have no idea how the EL11 sounds and know the C3g sounds great.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> here are the outer dimensions.
> 
> Metal chassis
> Wide  12.59"
> ...



And I too encourage built-in sockets rather than 6BL7/6BX7 adapters. The adapters are rather flimsy. And further, I suspect that built-in sockets will also sound better.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> And I too encourage built-in sockets rather than 6BL7/6BX7 adapters. The adapters are rather flimsy. And further, I suspect that built-in sockets will also sound better.



Yes the adapters don't have the grid stopper resistors or balance resistors. All the tube elements are just hooked in parallel.
So the built in sockets are better.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Been thinking on the EL to Loctal adapter....Loctal bases are not avail, because...

The pins for Loctal come right out of the glass envelope, do they not?

 

Not impossible to overcome in an adaptor...but will be a fancy problem to solve...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Awfully treble sensitive tonight...need to tame those highs...

5998 and a Ken-Rad VT-231 fit the bill, much better then other combos I tried.

Juicy, Fat Bass, and suppressed highs...


----------



## rnros

JazzVinyl said:


> Been thinking on the EL to Loctal adapter....Loctal bases are not avail, because...
> 
> The pins for Loctal come right out of the glass envelope, do they not?
> 
> ...



Same approach as used for 9 pin tube adapters, only thing is with the 9 pin you have the pin gap for alignment, with the loctal you'll have to do it carefully with a mark on the base side wall, corresponding to the loctal key.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 8, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> 5998 and C3g sounds so good in this amp....Will be interesting to see if an EL anything can improve things...
> 
> C3g is presenting subtle details, with carefully crafted, custom fitted velvet gloves.




Probably my favorite combo, dynamic and detailed and very musical with tons of authority.



Ten bonus points to anyone who can guess where we were last night.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Probably my favorite combo, dynamic and detailed and very musical with tons of authority.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> That's the combo I have in my Darna for many months now. I never felt the urge to roll other tubes (yet for now.)


----------



## felix3650

2359glenn said:


> here are the outer dimensions.
> 
> Metal chassis
> Wide  12.59"
> ...





2359glenn said:


> Yes the adapters don't have the grid stopper resistors or balance resistors. All the tube elements are just hooked in parallel.
> So the built in sockets are better.



Thanks Glenn. I'll have to go for the metal chassis then. Probably I'll wait a bit more impressions before deciding for the EL sockets.



gibosi said:


> And I too encourage built-in sockets rather than 6BL7/6BX7 adapters. The adapters are rather flimsy. And further, I suspect that built-in sockets will also sound better.



Thanks gibosi


----------



## JazzVinyl

If you like bass you can feel.....don't buy one of those Subwoofer Backpacks...

Buy the GOTL instead and buy some cheap tubes:

Six Pack of 6BL7's...
and
Ken-Rad metal jacket 6N7 (no glow, therefore they almost give them away).

Massive bass, no backpack necessary...

And I mean MASSIVE bass


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Probably my favorite combo, dynamic and detailed and very musical with tons of authority.
> 
> Ten bonus points to anyone who can guess where we were last night.



Indeed 5998/C3g is sooooo good!!

I see that great and cool guitar player....with the funny name


----------



## 2359glenn (Nov 8, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> Probably my favorite combo, dynamic and detailed and very musical with tons of authority.
> 
> 
> 
> Ten bonus points to anyone who can guess where we were last night.



Only could be a Joe Bonamassa concert !!!!!!!!!
Assume Guitarist maybe todays best.


----------



## UntilThen

It's been 5 days with EL11s and 6bx7s. Last night, I roll in ECC35 in place of EL11s and was quite shocked that I prefer EL11s now. I also paired EL11s with 5998s. Whilst it's a great tone but I prefer EL11s with 6 x 6bx7gt. It's a great pairing with hd800 original.

Also I find the tone much better now than when I started 5 days ago on Monday.

Problem is EL11 is difficult to find now, especially NOS ones. If you find them it will be expensive. I may have to experiment with EL3Ns and EL8 to see if they are also as engaging to my ears.


----------



## wazzupi

JazzVinyl said:


> If you like bass you can feel.....don't buy one of those Subwoofer Backpacks...
> 
> Buy the GOTL instead and buy some cheap tubes:
> 
> ...


Any reliable place to buy 6 noiseless matching 6bl7s ?


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> It's been 5 days with EL11s and 6bx7s. Last night, I roll in ECC35 in place of EL11s and was quite shocked that I prefer EL11s now. I also paired EL11s with 5998s. Whilst it's a great tone but I prefer EL11s with 6 x 6bx7gt. It's a great pairing with hd800 original.
> 
> Also I find the tone much better now than when I started 5 days ago on Monday.
> 
> Problem is EL11 is difficult to find now, especially NOS ones. If you find them it will be expensive. I may have to experiment with EL3Ns and EL8 to see if they are also as engaging to my ears.


How's the difference in between both types of drivers? Those EL3Ns look great too


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It's been 5 days with EL11s and 6bx7s. Last night, I roll in ECC35 in place of EL11s and was quite shocked that I prefer EL11s now. I also paired EL11s with 5998s. Whilst it's a great tone but I prefer EL11s with 6 x 6bx7gt. It's a great pairing with hd800 original.
> 
> Also I find the tone much better now than when I started 5 days ago on Monday.
> 
> Problem is EL11 is difficult to find now, especially NOS ones. If you find them it will be expensive. I may have to experiment with EL3Ns and EL8 to see if they are also as engaging to my ears.



Yea but they should last forever they are power output tubes being used as a driver at low current.


----------



## 2359glenn

The GEC 6AS7s I won came in the mail today what a nice set of tubes true NOS with matching date on the box  1 AUG 1969.
Once I figured out who the seller was @dminches I went for them. He has a couple of my first amps.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> The GEC 6AS7s I won came in the mail today what a nice set of tubes true NOS with matching date on the box  1 AUG 1969.
> Once I figured out who the seller was @dminches I went for them. He has a couple of my first amps.



I originally bought them for the OTL you built for me and I still have. I actually have 2 other pairs of GEC 6AS7Gs.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> I originally bought them for the OTL you built for me and I still have. I actually have 2 other pairs of GEC 6AS7Gs.



That OTL is quite old now.
I am retro fitting a OTL to use two GEC L63/6J5 1/2 a 6SN7 driving the two GEC 6AS7s. It will have all GEC amplification should sound good.


----------



## leftside

@dminches - you not only have good taste in amps - but also DACs and headphones 

How do you like the 300B compared to the OTL? I have the 300B and it's the best headphone amp I've ever listened to, but I don't tube roll with it. I'm getting the OTL to tube roll (with tubes such as the 6AS7Gs which I also have a few of).

Post up a pic of your 300B! They are few and far between on here.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Problem is EL11 is difficult to find now, especially NOS ones. If you find them it will be expensive. I may have to experiment with EL3Ns and EL8 to see if they are also as engaging to my ears.


Think I saw 2 Telefunken EL11's on eBay for $50?

Glad to see your "not tube rolling anymore" going well  Seriously, keep on rolling. I'm sure we all love to see how more varied you can make the GOTL.


----------



## dminches

leftside said:


> @dminches - you not only have good taste in amps - but also DACs and headphones
> 
> How do you like the 300B compared to the OTL? I have the 300B and it's the best headphone amp I've ever listened to, but I don't tube roll with it. I'm getting the OTL to tube roll (with tubes such as the 6AS7Gs which I also have a few of).
> 
> Post up a pic of your 300B! They are few and far between on here.



The OTL is very good but the 300B is the best amp I have ever heard.


----------



## 2359glenn

Glad you guys like my amps makes me feel good
Thanks


----------



## gibosi

wazzupi said:


> Any reliable place to buy 6 noiseless matching 6bl7s ?



I doubt it. But it is perfectly fine to purchase these one at a time. I would suggest that you get 8 or 10 or even 12. Most important, buy NOS. While not 100% reliable, if the vendor claims it tests NOS and it still has the original box, there is a very good chance the tube is NOS. 

Further, in my experience it is sometimes a challenge to get 6 tubes that are quiet together. I usually run each tube as a driver first, to make sure it isn't a dud. And I have had 6 tubes work fine as drivers, but when installed together as output tubes, there is a strong ground hum. I have no idea why... So if you have a few extras, you can mix and match until you get a quiet set.


----------



## wazzupi

gibosi said:


> I doubt it. But it is perfectly fine to purchase these one at a time. I would suggest that you get 8 or 10 or even 12. Most important, buy NOS. While not 100% reliable, if the vendor claims it tests NOS and it still has the original box, there is a very good chance the tube is NOS.
> 
> Further, in my experience it is sometimes a challenge to get 6 tubes that are quiet together. I usually run each tube as a driver first, to make sure it isn't a dud. And I have had 6 tubes work fine as drivers, but when installed together as output tubes, there is a strong ground hum. I have no idea why... So if you have a few extras, you can mix and match until you get a quiet set.


Thats what i did basically I bought 9 and used the best combo


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> It's been 5 days with EL11s and 6bx7s. Last night, I roll in ECC35 in place of EL11s and was quite shocked that I prefer EL11s now. I also paired EL11s with 5998s. Whilst it's a great tone but I prefer EL11s with 6 x 6bx7gt. It's a great pairing with hd800 original.
> 
> Also I find the tone much better now than when I started 5 days ago on Monday.
> 
> Problem is EL11 is difficult to find now, especially NOS ones. If you find them it will be expensive. I may have to experiment with EL3Ns and EL8 to see if they are also as engaging to my ears.



Hello UT...

Do me a favor please, and revisit FDD20 and see how it does against the EL11 pair...


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello UT...
> 
> Do me a favor please, and revisit FDD20 and see how it does against the EL11 pair...



Alrighty.... this weekend. I have 5 fdd20. If I get 4 more adapters, I can run an all fdd20 setup lol.

I will post some impressions of c3g, fdd20 and EL11s all with 6 x 6bx7.

However that Glenn 300b amp looks so juicy.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Alrighty.... this weekend. I have 5 fdd20. If I get 4 more adapters, I can run an all fdd20 setup lol.
> 
> I will post some impressions of c3g, fdd20 and EL11s all with 6 x 6bx7.
> 
> However that Glenn 300b amp looks so juicy.



You won't find a better sounding amp but good 300Bs are expensive.
It still sounds great with cheap 300Bs they just go bad in less then a year.
I am waiting for WE to finally resume production so I can buy a new pair. I stupidly sold my pair when I was told I had 18 months to live that was 6 years ago.DA. 
Got $8000 for them but wish I ddn't do it.


----------



## 2359glenn

wazzupi said:


> Thats what i did basically I bought 9 and used the best combo



Just buy multiples like this you can't go wrong at this price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-GE-6BX...1:g:9ZcAAOSwBE1bosTo:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true


----------



## whirlwind

dminches said:


> The OTL is very good but the 300B is the best amp I have ever heard.




dminches......What PY500 tubes are those ?


----------



## mordy

I found that the German eBay site is the best one for EL11 tubes. Here is a pair NIB for $39 shipped:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/2x-EL11-Adz...=item2aba1b2d9f:g:PRsAAOSw7wxauiBB:rk:31:pf:0
Most of the EL11 tubes I have were bought used at good prices, but it looks like there are fewer offerings now, but still possible to find good deals.


----------



## JazzVinyl

That's better,,,

Found my good FDD20...the one that is nice and quiet.  Have 3 out and two of the three make noises, sounds like someone trying to claw his way out of the submarine...

Have two NEW FDD20's still in factory wrappers, but didn't want to break them out, just yet.

This quiet one...is so "Aaaahhhhhhhhhhhh that's nice"...so glad I found the good one.  Restores my faith in this absolutely wonderful "getting harder to find" driver.

It's "just right" on so many levels....using it with a six pack of 6BL7.

Cheers all, and........Thank You, Glenn...!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I found that the German eBay site is the best one for EL11 tubes. Here is a pair NIB for $39 shipped:
> https://www.ebay.de/itm/2x-EL11-Adz...=item2aba1b2d9f:g:PRsAAOSw7wxauiBB:rk:31:pf:0
> Most of the EL11 tubes I have were bought used at good prices, but it looks like there are fewer offerings now, but still possible to find good deals.



Nice find, Mordy!! 

There is a fine looking FDD20 on the German site too:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Zwei-Stuck-...Triode-FDD20-ungepraucht-gepruft/132821386861

Amazingly....the tax stamp appears to be the same day and number, as the one I have in my amp....now!!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice find, Mordy!!
> 
> There is a fine looking FDD20 on the German site too:
> 
> ...


Good price for a pair!


----------



## JazzVinyl

An @attmci suggested driver, the tall bottle, T Plate (flat sides facing each other), oval bottom mica,  7N7 is also a superb driver in the GOTL.  

Has a smoother high end than its short bottled cousins, and superb mids plus great bass.  

I like it...

Many a driver shines, in Glenn’s tube amplifier architecture.


----------



## wazzupi

JazzVinyl said:


> An @attmci suggested driver, the tall bottle, T Plate (flat sides facing each other), oval bottom mica,  7N7 is also a superb driver in the GOTL.
> 
> Has a smoother high end than its short bottled cousins, and superb mids plus great bass.
> 
> ...


https://www.ebay.com/itm/7N7-loctal...614896?hash=item363f61e7b0:g:nkEAAOSwFURb3Wjk these ?


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/7N7-loctal...614896?hash=item363f61e7b0:g:nkEAAOSwFURb3Wjk these ?


Hi W,
No, not those. Here is what to look for (courtesy attmci and the Lyr thread):
1) Tall bottle with unique 'squared-off' top shape. (Flat head)
2) Top getter with flashing that completely covers the inside of the bottle at least a 3rd of the way down, and usually half way down.
3) T-Plates where the flat part of the plates face each other. There are gray plate and black plate versions. I have both, and can't honestly tell much difference between them.
4) True racetrack mica supports, top and bottom. By that I mean that the shape is a true oval, and not like a rectangle with ends that are rounded (see below).
5) Square (or slightly rectangular) pan-type getter tray (or support).
This is the real one - 





The one below is NOT the real one (sorry for the double picture - don't know how to remove it)









Here is a photo with the real one on the left - notice flat head:




And you don't have to pay a high price. ANY 7N7 was made by Sylvania, no matter what it says on it. Look for rebranded ones with the right characteristics.


----------



## felix3650

mordy said:


> I found that the German eBay site is the best one for EL11 tubes. Here is a pair NIB for $39 shipped:
> https://www.ebay.de/itm/2x-EL11-Adz...=item2aba1b2d9f:g:PRsAAOSw7wxauiBB:rk:31:pf:0
> Most of the EL11 tubes I have were bought used at good prices, but it looks like there are fewer offerings now, but still possible to find good deals.



I also came across that when looking for EL11s. Are the Adzams as good as say the Philips or Telefunken ones?

Also are these Tungsol 12SL7GT BGRP any good?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12SL7GT-ra...m=232990306627&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> I also came across that when looking for EL11s. Are the Adzams as good as say the Philips or Telefunken ones?
> 
> Also are these Tungsol 12SL7GT BGRP any good?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12SL7GT-radio-Tung-Sol-black-glass-round-plates-vacuum-tubes-2-valve-VT-289/232990306627?_trkparms=aid=888007&algo=DISC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20131227121020&meid=cd0334cb763e47c18a8646dcf774a896&pid=100009&rk=1&rkt=1&sd=372449808146&itm=232990306627&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982



Felix, I don't get down to comparing EL11s between brands even though I have RFT, Philips Miniwatt and Telefunken. I chose to use Telefunken now because they are the best pair physically and they sound really good with each passing day.

Those Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp looks alright to me and they are one of my fav drivers.


----------



## UntilThen (Nov 9, 2018)

I found a pair of Telefunken EL13 and bought it. They are identical electrically to the EL8 but with different base.
http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0177.htm

They are NOS and NIB. Very cheap.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1x-EL13...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I found a pair of Telefunken EL13 and bought it. They are identical electrically to the EL8 but with different base.
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0177.htm
> 
> They are NOS and NIB. Very cheap.
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1x-EL13-Telefunken-Röhre-tube-NOS-NEW-NEU/332859429024?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Interesting base.  Another custom adapter will be needed.  Adapting to SN7? OR the Loctal sockets?

I am enjoying six pack 6BL7's driven by an Amperex Orange Label ECC88, from 1971...
Sounds great and love how QUIET these 9 pin minature tubes are...


----------



## UntilThen

EL13 has same pins as EL11.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I broke a C3g this morning...was pulling it straight up out of the socket...no rocking...the way you are supposed to remove them...

When it released itself from my grasp, and went flying...

Worse part is....Mordy made me do it!!! Jinxed me, talking about not having broken a tube in a _long_ time!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

That's a bummer.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Xcalibur255 said:


> That's a bummer.



Fortunately, I have a working spare


----------



## UntilThen

JV, now you can donate that c3g base to a worthy cause.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> JV, now you can donate that c3g base to a worthy cause.



Right!! First thing I thought about!! 

The base is glued on, from when I removed the shield...


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> I found that the German eBay site is the best one for EL11 tubes. Here is a pair NIB for $39 shipped:
> https://www.ebay.de/itm/2x-EL11-Adz...=item2aba1b2d9f:g:PRsAAOSw7wxauiBB:rk:31:pf:0
> Most of the EL11 tubes I have were bought used at good prices, but it looks like there are fewer offerings now, but still possible to find good deals.





felix3650 said:


> I also came across that when looking for EL11s. Are the Adzams as good as say the Philips or Telefunken ones?


Code MX4 A7E, so it is a Philips tube made by WIRAG, "Philips Austria".


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> I broke a C3g this morning...was pulling it straight up out of the socket...no rocking...the way you are supposed to remove them...
> 
> When it released itself from my grasp, and went flying...
> 
> Worse part is....Mordy made me do it!!! Jinxed me, talking about not having broken a tube in a _long_ time!!!



You have to stop throughing tubes across the room gets expensive.
Guess you should have left the shield/armor plate on the tube!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> You have to stop throughing tubes across the room gets expensive.
> Guess you should have left the shield/armor plate on the tube!!!



Indeed!!

The glass on C3g is particularly fragile...

But what a tube it is (was).


----------



## wazzupi

2359glenn said:


> You have to stop throughing tubes across the room gets expensive.
> Guess you should have left the shield/armor plate on the tube!!!


lol this happened to me too ! but it wasn't with a c3g.


----------



## UntilThen

I said that I will post some impressions of 3 different drivers paired with 6 x GE 6bx7gt. Well here it is. As always, they are my impressions, my ears and my gear, which is Yggdrasil and HD800. As a matter of interest, I also use my modded HD650.

Siemens c3g - The most revealing of the lot. There is an emphasis on treble sweetness and mid-bass punch. Very dynamic and energised. It's a very engaging tone but I don't think you want to live with just this set of tubes alone. You probably wouldn't because if you have GOTL, you would want at least a few sets of different tubes because our ears crave a change of tone every now and then.

Philips Miniwatt FDD20 - a very good driver. One that I have not highlight enough because I have far too many good drivers. It's quite similar to a Visseaux 6n7g but is more 'full' in tone and the texture is more organic. Treble extension is very good but it can sound sharp at times. Bass punch is good. All the ingredients for a good driver.

Telefunken EL11 - having listening to the above 2 drivers, the most apparent change when listening to the EL11 is the dip in treble sharpness. making my hd800 very comfortable to listen to. There's no lost in details, just not as sharp as the other 2. Vocals sound bigger and mids are more focused. I said before that EL11 sounds like big speakers whereas my Sylvania 6sn7w metal base sounds like my small super monitors. This gives some idea of the change in soundscape. FDD20 sounds bigger than 6sn7 but is never anywhere near the EL11.

Bottom line is I like the EL11 but I would not be satisfied to live with that as the only driver because there are just too many good sounding tubes for the OTL amp.... and my ears likes a change of tone every now and then. I suspect most of us do.


----------



## felix3650

Oskari said:


> Code MX4 A7E, so it is a Philips tube made by WIRAG, "Philips Austria".



Good to know! Thanks Oskari.



UntilThen said:


> I said that I will post some impressions of 3 different drivers paired with 6 x GE 6bx7gt. Well here it is. As always, they are my impressions, my ears and my gear, which is Yggdrasil and HD800. As a matter of interest, I also use my modded HD650.
> 
> Siemens c3g - The most revealing of the lot. There is an emphasis on treble sweetness and mid-bass punch. Very dynamic and energised. It's a very engaging tone but I don't think you want to live with just this set of tubes alone. You probably wouldn't because if you have GOTL, you would want at least a few sets of different tubes because our ears crave a change of tone every now and then.
> 
> ...



I have "similar" headphones, Auteur and HD58X plus a multibit R-2R DAC/Amp (Holo Cyan). Btw other than gain, what's the difference in sound between 6BX7 vs 6BL7?

Drivers on my "want to try" list:
· Sylvania 6SN7W metal base
· Tungsol 12SL7GT BGRP
· Mullard ECC35
· Siemens C3g
· EL11

Last question: tube rectifier or HEXFRED (solid state)?


----------



## UntilThen

6BL7 has a metallic sheen. 6bx7 is more of a matte finish. 

Tube or hexfred is entirely up to you.

One other thing not often talked about is the optional Gold Point attenuator. I like it. You can feel the click. It’s precise and smooth.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I found a pair of Telefunken EL13 and bought it. They are identical electrically to the EL8 but with different base.
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0177.htm
> 
> They are NOS and NIB. Very cheap.
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1x-EL13-Telefunken-Röhre-tube-NOS-NEW-NEU/332859429024?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Thanks for initiating the Loctal adapter for the Tele base, I'll have to try the EL13s when the adapters are available.


----------



## rnros

felix3650 said:


> ...
> Last question: tube rectifier or HEXFRED (solid state)?



Depends on what you want, both sound good.

Hexfred: More heater current available for driver and power tubes. Less SQ variation and control. Less money. Less noise potential.
Tube: Less heater current available for driver and power tubes. More SQ variation and control. More money. More noise potential.


----------



## whirlwind

Great way to start off a Saturday morning  


  

  

Stevie Ray Vaughan DSD & Glenn EL3N is just plain sublime......listening with ZMF Ori and the EL3N amp in two tube mode has gobs of authority with the planar headphone....volume control between 10-11 o'clock.
Sub bass that you can feel


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> 6BL7 has a *metallic sheen*. 6bx7 is more of a *matte finish*.
> 
> Tube or hexfred is entirely up to you.
> 
> One other thing not often talked about is the optional *Gold Point attenuator*. I like it. You can feel the click. It’s precise and smooth.





rnros said:


> Depends on what you want, both sound good.
> 
> Hexfred: More heater current available for driver and power tubes. Less SQ variation and control. Less money. Less noise potential.
> Tube: Less heater current available for driver and power tubes. More SQ variation and control. More money. More noise potential.



Roger that! 

Everything noted down. Might consider the Gold Point attenuator when ordering. I'm leaning towards this OTL config:
- Lundahl transformer
- 6 output sockets
- C3g sockets
- 6/12/24 volts switch
- RCA pre-out
- HEXFRED rectifier
- Probably the stepped attenuator

I don't have planars in my stable and don't plan in the near future so no bias switch for the 5998 (or lower impandance for the 6336s).


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 10, 2018)

felix3650 said:


> Roger that!
> 
> Everything noted down. Might consider the Gold Point attenuator when ordering. I'm leaning towards this OTL config:
> - Lundahl transformer
> ...




That will be a killer amp.
If you do get planars, no worries you can still use 6336 tubes, and 5998 tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Great way to start off a Saturday morning
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Joe did I win the 10 points?
You can easily plug two headphones in the EL3N amp with no degrading of the sound it has power to spare. It drove my speakers just fine


----------



## lukeap69

felix3650 said:


> Roger that!
> 
> Everything noted down. Might consider the Gold Point attenuator when ordering. I'm leaning towards this OTL config:
> - Lundahl transformer
> ...


With all these ELXX adapters discussion in previous post, I wonder if these can be added without high increase in cost. I think your OTL will be unique and the first of its kind...


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I said that I will post some impressions of 3 different drivers paired with 6 x GE 6bx7gt. Well here it is. As always, they are my impressions, my ears and my gear, which is Yggdrasil and HD800. As a matter of interest, I also use my modded HD650.
> 
> Siemens c3g - The most revealing of the lot. There is an emphasis on treble sweetness and mid-bass punch. Very dynamic and energised. It's a very engaging tone but I don't think you want to live with just this set of tubes alone. You probably wouldn't because if you have GOTL, you would want at least a few sets of different tubes because our ears crave a change of tone every now and then.
> 
> ...




Sounds good, UT...

Hoping for similar results as your EL11 from the EL8 pair, once I finally get them going.

My SENN 580's do not get the sharp treble from FDD20 that you describe, but the HD650's can show that (no HD800's here).

Appreciate you time.

Still running the ECC88 and six pack of 6BL7 here...w/crazy good results.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Joe did I win the 10 points?
> You can easily plug two headphones in the EL3N amp with no degrading of the sound it has power to spare. It drove my speakers just fine





2359glenn said:


> Joe did I win the 10 points?
> You can easily plug two headphones in the EL3N amp with no degrading of the sound it has power to spare. It drove my speakers just fine



Ha.  Yes you did...and extra credit for correct spelling, LOL.

So here are 11 points to you


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Great way to start off a Saturday morning
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Beautiful amp and superb choice of tunes, Joe.  
Love that you have the DSD visions of these two...bet it DOES sound super fantastic!!


----------



## whirlwind

All of Glenn's amps are beautiful and I love the chassis he uses, and as he says he can fit   " Ten pounds of $hit in a five pound bag"
Ha, gotta love that!


----------



## felix3650

whirlwind said:


> That will be a killer amp.
> If you do get planars, no worries you can still use 6336 tubes, and 5998 tubes





lukeap69 said:


> With all these ELXX adapters discussion in previous post, I wonder if these can be added without high increase in cost. I think your OTL will be unique and the first of its kind...



Thanks guys! All of Glenn's work is unique 



whirlwind said:


> All of Glenn's amps are beautiful and I love the chassis he uses, and as he says he can fit   " Ten pounds of $hit in a five pound bag"
> Ha, gotta love that!



Yeah I agree. That's some awesome sounding and looking schiit however!
If the wooden chassis was roomier inside I would've gone with that just so I can have a nice set of audio chain: Auteurs (wooden headphones) - Silvergarde S3 (with wooden splitter) - Glenn's OTL (with wooden base)


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Great way to start off a Saturday morning



I have a feeling I will love how the EL3N amp sound because the EL3N is a close cousin of EL11. It's timbre we chase and when we find the right timbre to our ears, we will know it.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> I have a feeling I will love how the EL3N amp sound because the EL3N is a close cousin of EL11. It's timbre we chase and when we find the right timbre to our ears, we will know it.



Did you order one from Glenn? I can imagine the other tubes in the family also sound great. I have the dual EL8 adapter to 6SN7 and the sound stage is expansive with the 6BX7s and even moreso with the 5998s. I think Glenn mentioned that he’s able to add a 6SN7 socket to the EL3N amp as well. Choices and options.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Did you order one from Glenn? I can imagine the other tubes in the family also sound great. I have the dual EL8 adapter to 6SN7 and the sound stage is expansive with the 6BX7s and even moreso with the 5998s. I think Glenn mentioned that he’s able to add a 6SN7 socket to the EL3N amp as well. Choices and options.



The beauty of the EL3N is how it looks as it is. Adding more sockets will just ruin the Piccaso. 

I did not order the EL3N amp because I ordered the DNA Stratus and that's something I think about quite a lot lately.... maybe a change of mind?


----------



## rnros (Nov 10, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> ...
> Hoping for similar results as your EL11 from the EL8 pair, once I finally get them going.



Hi JV,
I still owe you that comparison, EL3N vs EL8, took me awhile to get around to it, and then I just plain forgot to get back to you.
So, my apologies for being slow and absent minded. My wife keeps me keenly aware of these faults!

Again, IMHO, these are both great tubes, so any comparative note is not meant to diminish either of these tubes.
My honest recommendation would be to get both because fortunately both are _low_ cost but _very_ _high_ caliber.

As experienced in the GOTL:
Tonal balance - Both are very fine here, no complaints with either, the EL3N does have just a bit more energy in the upper bass.
And just as important as Neutral is Natural. Timbre - Both excel here, as natural sounding as any tube I've heard.

Drive/Power - The EL3N is the harder driving tube, both actual power and also perhaps, the user's initial perception.
EL3N has a higher amplification factor and higher power output, but either has more than enough to drive the GOTL.
On my GOTL, the EL8 has about the same volume pot setting as the ECC31.
Yes, EL3N presents a "wall of sound" as UT describes it, in a good way, but they are equally capable of high dynamic extremes, with control.

The defining difference would be in how they balance the low to high amplitude sound range, that is dynamic range, not frequency.
If you wanted to rock the house in glorious sound, choose the EL3N. (And that is not meant to diminish the refinement of the EL3N.)
If you want to close your eyes and transport yourself to one of the world's great concert halls, choose the EL8.
You will not be overly impressed with your first moments listening to the EL8. I just found it to be so relaxing, effortless, and immersive.
THEN I started to notice subtleties, nuances that were never heard before on recordings that were very familiar to me.
Additional low level spacial cues precisely placed, enhanced instrument timbre, lower level decay that was lifelike.
I really could go on about this, but I won't, but will add that it's the same with small ensemble groups, depending on how it's mic'd and/or mixed.
Really does depend on what's in the recording, what the DAC delivers, and what's reproducible by the headphone.

Anyway.. This added sensitivity impressed me and I looked for information on the tube, not much available.
But what I did find noted that the tube was designed for, you guessed it, increased sensitivity.
The usual YMMV.
And I just can't wait to hear the EL3N in the GEL3N. And continuous thanks to Glenn for the amazing GOTL.


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> Great way to start off a Saturday morning
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just a beautiful amp, thanks for posting pics again. Don't see enough about the GEL3N. : )
Soon. Fairly soon, Well, soon enough. Joking aside, I feel fortunate to be on Glenn's list.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I have a feeling I will love how the EL3N amp sound because the EL3N is a close cousin of EL11. It's timbre we chase and when we find the right timbre to our ears, we will know it.



Indeed.



UntilThen said:


> The beauty of the EL3N is how it looks as it is. Adding more sockets will just ruin the Piccaso.
> 
> I did not order the EL3N amp because I ordered the DNA Stratus and that's something I think about quite a lot lately.... maybe a change of mind?



The DNA Stratus is a beautiful amp with a great reputation. I hope to hear it some day, I'm sure I will be impressed.
I have an awful LOT of 6N1Ps, I think every Russian factory, every designation, every decade. And the listening hours also.
So I would first have to hear what DNA does with it in the Stratus. 
(Still, 6N1P has a 600mA heater, so many possibilities in both 9 pin and octals.)


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> You will not be overly impressed with your first moments listening to the EL8. I just found it to be so relaxing, effortless, and immersive.
> THEN I started to notice subtleties, nuances that were never heard before on recordings that were very familiar to me.
> Additional low level spacial cues precisely placed, enhanced instrument timbre, lower level decay that was lifelike.



Well described rnros. All these qualities I can relate to EL11 as well. I did spend considerable time with EL3N in my previous Elise amp. I still have a pair of EL3N with me but no adapter to use it with on the OTL amp. EL11 is brighter than EL3N and is airier, presenting a lighter texture in tone.

I too could not find much info on EL8 and EL13.


----------



## JazzVinyl

C3g innards:


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Well described rnros. All these qualities I can relate to EL11 as well. I did spend considerable time with EL3N in my previous Elise amp. I still have a pair of EL3N with me but no adapter to use it with on the OTL amp. EL11 is brighter than EL3N and is airier, presenting a lighter texture in tone.
> 
> I too could not find much info on EL8 and EL13.





UntilThen said:


> Well described rnros. All these qualities I can relate to EL11 as well. I did spend considerable time with EL3N in my previous Elise amp. I still have a pair of EL3N with me but no adapter to use it with on the OTL amp. EL11 is brighter than EL3N and is airier, presenting a lighter texture in tone.
> 
> I too could not find much info on EL8 and EL13.



I have only heard the EL3N tubes,  I would guess that all of the EL tubes will sound very good

Views seem to vary on the sound of the EL3N tubes in Glenns amp.
To me they are a warmer sound than say the 5998 tubes with the C3g.  The wall of sound is huge, but they do not sound over dynamic or in your face sound.
The notes seem to appear more out of nowhere. 

The C3g drivers are the most transparent drivers I own...the EL3N drivers are more musical....I like both....YMMV depending on cans/genre/rest of chain
I would love to hear a DNA Stratus.  






JazzVinyl said:


> C3g innards:
> 
> [ATTAC



Great pictures JV!!!!

The C3g's look great naked, but I leave the skirts on mine....just because of the extra benefit from the shielding.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Great pictures JV!!!!
> 
> The C3g's look great naked, but I leave the skirts on mine....just because of the extra benefit from the shielding.



Agree that shields on, is the best way to go with them.


----------



## mordy

felix3650 said:


> Roger that!
> 
> Everything noted down. Might consider the Gold Point attenuator when ordering. I'm leaning towards this OTL config:
> - Lundahl transformer
> ...


Hi Felix3650,
I was in the same quandary as you re the GOTL. I ended up with the almost identical amp to the one that you listed, but not with the stepped attenuator. The advice I got was to skip the rectifier and use Hexfred instead, and that the bias switch for 5998 tubes and the attenuator weren't essential.

I am running 6336 tubes all day long with excellent results. Re people who have Hexfred I cannot remember a single person complaining that  they cannot use a rectifier instead.
All in all I am extremely happy with the GOTL and I want to thank Glenn for making it available.


----------



## mordy

felix3650 said:


> I also came across that when looking for EL11s. Are the Adzams as good as say the Philips or Telefunken ones?
> 
> Also are these Tungsol 12SL7GT BGRP any good?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12SL7GT-radio-Tung-Sol-black-glass-round-plates-vacuum-tubes-2-valve-VT-289/232990306627?_trkparms=aid=888007&algo=DISC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20131227121020&meid=cd0334cb763e47c18a8646dcf774a896&pid=100009&rk=1&rkt=1&sd=372449808146&itm=232990306627&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982


Hi felix3650,
In the past I tried out several different EL11 tubes from various manufacturers. The Adzam is Mazda backwards. If I am correct Mazda was an independent company (Trivia: There was a time when light bulbs were called mazdas) that later became part of Philips.
As a rule, the consensus was that the Telefunken tubes sounded the best. However, tubes sound different in the GOTL, and I haven't had the opportunity to compare different EL11 tubes in the GOTL yet.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Interesting base.  Another custom adapter will be needed.  Adapting to SN7? OR the Loctal sockets?
> 
> I am enjoying six pack 6BL7's driven by an Amperex Orange Label ECC88, from 1971...
> Sounds great and love how QUIET these 9 pin minature tubes are...


Hi JV,
Using the EL3N/EL11 in the C3g sockets may sound better than using them in the 6SN7 socket since the biasing of the C3g is closer to the EL3/11 than the 6SN7.


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> Code MX4 A7E, so it is a Philips tube made by WIRAG, "Philips Austria".


There was a lot of cross branding. I found an unusual looking tubular EL3N for sale by Billings in England. After a lot of back and forth I was able to identify it as a real Telefunken tube. (Didn't buy it {yet})


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Well described rnros. All these qualities I can relate to EL11 as well. I did spend considerable time with EL3N in my previous Elise amp. I still have a pair of EL3N with me but no adapter to use it with on the OTL amp. EL11 is brighter than EL3N and is airier, presenting a lighter texture in tone.
> 
> I too could not find much info on EL8 and EL13.



Thanks for that comparison of E11 vs EL3N. Hope to hear the E11 someday. 

This is the only full data sheet I found:

http://www.4tubes.com/DATASHEETS/SCANS-Original/E/EL8.pdf


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> Roger that!
> 
> Everything noted down. Might consider the Gold Point attenuator when ordering. I'm leaning towards this OTL config:
> - Lundahl transformer
> ...



Good choice with that OTL configuration.... except if my EL11s develops further and I like it for the long run, I might send it back to Glenn to get the c3g sockets replaced with EL11's. 

This OTL amp will drive a planar headphone without breaking a sweat. Drives my LCD-2f with absolute ease and I'm using EL11s with 6 x 6bx7gt. I also have both hd800 and lcd-2f plug in now together and the amp has enough power and control to drive both simultaneously. 

I'm not using the 5998 boost switch. It's there. It's nice to have but I am not using it.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> There was a lot of cross branding. I found an unusual looking tubular EL3N for sale by Billings in England. After a lot of back and forth I was able to identify it as a real Telefunken tube. (Didn't buy it {yet})


Like their tubular EL11? Must be pretty rare.


----------



## mordy

Been digging in the bargain bins lately - I love inexpensive good tubes!
I have acquired 5 6C8G tubes with the average price under $8 shipped.
I am biased towards older tubes, but cannot date these two tubes:




The left tube is an older Sylvania with the green leaf and a code that reads T 3(?). Haven't been able to date it - does anybody know?
The right tube is a RCA. It has much more information on it. Joint Army & Navy CRC, SC71 (Signal Corps inspector #71?) and date code O-43.
Don't know how to date it or even if it was made by RCA. 43rd week 1950? Secret *O*perations 1943? Anybody?
Of the five tubes the National Union and above two tubes sound the best.
These tubes (and 6F8G) really sound very good and could be great and inexpensive 6SN7/6SL7 substitutes (but need a special adapter).


----------



## mordy (Nov 10, 2018)

Oskari said:


> Like their tubular EL11? Must be pretty rare.


Yes - tubular.
Did not buy because I have a lot of EL3N tubes and I cannot use them right now in my GOTL until I find a suitable adapter that doesn't exist yet (EL3 to C3g).
But you are right, they must be very rare. I didn't believe that TFK made them, but I asked them to turn the actual tube upside down and look for two letters next to the pins. They were there, and I think I remember a 1944 date.
Found the UK eBay offering but I don't know if they still are available.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/112568484520?ul_noapp=true




Test your Swedish: What does Ror mean?


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> In the past I tried out several different EL11 tubes from various manufacturers. The Adzam is Mazda backwards. If I am correct Mazda was an independent company (Trivia: There was a time when light bulbs were called mazdas) that later became part of Philips.





Oskari said:


> Adzam was the tube brand of MBLE, a Belgian manufacturer.
> 
> Mazda was originally a GE light bulb brand. They had subsidiaries and licensees in various markets. That's why the name Mazda appears here and there, also in Belgium for MBLE's light bulbs.


Yes, MBLE (aka Adzam aka Belgian Mazda) was in Philips's camp.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Test your Swedish: What does Ror mean?


Thanks, Mordy. I'll leave the test for others.


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> Thanks, Mordy. I'll leave the test for others.


The word means valve, valvola, rohre or tube, but ror is Swedish - don't know if these TFK tubes originally were destined for Sweden or bought there.
Any ideas about the dates on my 6C8G tubes?


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Any ideas about the dates on my 6C8G tubes?


Getting there… if my browser would stop freezing.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> The right tube is a RCA. It has much more information on it. Joint Army & Navy CRC, SC71 (Signal Corps inspector #71?) and date code O-43.
> Don't know how to date it or even if it was made by RCA. 43rd week 1950?


That should be correct. CRC = RCA.

Sylvania T3: According to Sibley (Tube Lore), guarantee ends Beginning of 1944, shipment interval Nov 1942—Jan 1943.


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> That should be correct. CRC = RCA.
> 
> Sylvania T3: According to Sibley (Tube Lore), guarantee ends Beginning of 1944, shipment interval Nov 1942—Jan 1943.


Thanks. If the Sylvania is for civilian use, why does it not say M-R? (Maybe worn off?)
Any luck with the RCA O-43 code?


----------



## leftside

I know you guys like GEC tubes, tube amps and adapters, so thought I'd post a few pics of my amps with GEC TT21s with adapters. I like these tubes just as much, if not more so than the GEC KT88s.

Steampunk amps.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Thanks. If the Sylvania is for civilian use, why does it not say M-R? (Maybe worn off?)
> Any luck with the RCA O-43 code?



Don't know.
I meant that what I quoted was all correct.


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> Don't know.
> I meant that what I quoted was all correct.


Thanks for your information.
Re warranty - I have a 1942 RCA 6F8G tube that has printed on the box "Guaranteed for 50 hours."


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> I know you guys like GEC tubes, tube amps and adapters, so thought I'd post a few pics of my amps with GEC TT21s with adapters. I like these tubes just as much, if not more so than the GEC KT88s.
> 
> 
> Steampunk amps.


Hi leftside,
Stunning display - I can only imagine how it sounds!
Maybe an idea for a spare GEC TT21?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-TT21-GE...h=item2abac9886c:g:rhwAAOSwfONb4cgv:rk:1:pf:0


----------



## leftside

I imagine that TT21 will sell for a lot higher. I got my TT21s this week from Billington in the UK. Made quite a few purchases from them this year... Ordered the TT21 to KT88 adapters last weekend from our friends in China. Usually it takes about 6 weeks for goods to arrive from there to Canada. Amazed (and very happy) these only took a week. Work great.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> .........Re people who have Hexfred I cannot remember a single person complaining that  they cannot use a rectifier instead.



With all due respect, I would point out that those who have built-in Hexfred rectification cannot even try 5-volt tube rectifiers in a GOTL. And thus, it is impossible for them to know if they might in fact prefer vacuum tube rectification. Whereas, those of us who use 5-volt rectifiers can also use one of Glenn's Hexfred plug-ins, and therefore, we can directly compare Hexfred to tube.

So it might be more valid to ask those who use tube rectifiers in the GOTL if any of us would complain if that ability was taken away. And I am willing to be the first to go on record: I can not imagine being limited to using only the plug-in Hexfred. No way! 

Now don't get me wrong... the Hexfred is a very fine rectifier. And I freely admit that chasing after tube rectifiers can be a very slippery slope. But losing the ability to use tube rectifiers as precision tone controls is a wonderful luxury that I would be very loathe to give up.

But of course, my ears and my gear.... YMMV.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Steampunk amps.



Very nice system Leftside.


----------



## felix3650

JazzVinyl said:


> C3g innards:



Really nice pics JV. It reminds me of an old electric filament heater I used to have.


----------



## felix3650 (Nov 11, 2018)

rnros said:


> Hi JV,
> I still owe you that comparison, EL3N vs EL8, took me awhile to get around to it, and then I just plain forgot to get back to you.
> So, my apologies for being slow and absent minded. My wife keeps me keenly aware of these faults!
> 
> ...





UntilThen said:


> Well described rnros. All these qualities I can relate to EL11 as well. I did spend considerable time with EL3N in my previous Elise amp. I still have a pair of EL3N with me but no adapter to use it with on the OTL amp. EL11 is brighter than EL3N and is airier, presenting a lighter texture in tone.
> 
> I too could not find much info on EL8 and EL13.





whirlwind said:


> I have only heard the EL3N tubes,  I would guess that all of the EL tubes will sound very good
> 
> Views seem to vary on the sound of the EL3N tubes in Glenns amp.
> To me they are a warmer sound than say the 5998 tubes with the C3g.  The wall of sound is huge, but they do not sound over dynamic or in your face sound.
> ...



Thanks for the impressions guys. Keep them coming!


----------



## felix3650

mordy said:


> Hi Felix3650,
> I was in the same quandary as you re the GOTL. I ended up with the almost identical amp to the one that you listed, but not with the stepped attenuator. The advice I got was to skip the rectifier and use Hexfred instead, and that the bias switch for 5998 tubes and the attenuator weren't essential.
> 
> I am running 6336 tubes all day long with excellent results. Re people who have Hexfred I cannot remember a single person complaining that  they cannot use a rectifier instead.
> All in all I am extremely happy with the GOTL and I want to thank Glenn for making it available.





gibosi said:


> With all due respect, I would point out that those who have built-in Hexfred rectification cannot even try 5-volt tube rectifiers in a GOTL. And thus, it is impossible for them to know if they might in fact prefer vacuum tube rectification. Whereas, those of us who use 5-volt rectifiers can also use one of Glenn's Hexfred plug-ins, and therefore, we can directly compare Hexfred to tube.
> 
> So it might be more valid to ask those who use tube rectifiers in the GOTL if any of us would complain if that ability was taken away. And I am willing to be the first to go on record: I can not imagine being limited to using only the plug-in Hexfred. No way!
> 
> ...



HEXFRED should take on variable out of the equation even though I would've gone for a Cossor 53KU. Reading around seems this is a prefered choice for most.



mordy said:


> Hi felix3650,
> In the past I tried out several different EL11 tubes from various manufacturers. The Adzam is Mazda backwards. If I am correct Mazda was an independent company (Trivia: There was a time when light bulbs were called mazdas) that later became part of Philips.
> As a rule, the consensus was that the Telefunken tubes sounded the best. However, tubes sound different in the GOTL, and I haven't had the opportunity to compare different EL11 tubes in the GOTL yet.





Oskari said:


> Yes, MBLE (aka Adzam aka Belgian Mazda) was in Philips's camp.



In fact I did notice that it was MAZDA spelled backwards, but then I thought coincidence?  



UntilThen said:


> Good choice with that OTL configuration.... except if my EL11s develops further and I like it for the long run, I might send it back to Glenn to get the c3g sockets replaced with EL11's.
> 
> This OTL amp will drive a planar headphone without breaking a sweat. Drives my LCD-2f with absolute ease and I'm using EL11s with 6 x 6bx7gt. I also have both hd800 and lcd-2f plug in now together and the amp has enough power and control to drive both simultaneously.
> 
> I'm not using the 5998 boost switch. It's there. It's nice to have but I am not using it.



Noted! I have a Holo Cyan which has a very competent headphone amp section with balanced output. If I do get a planar again (had the ZMF Ori, LCD2F, HE500 and Sundara) I'll have some tube flavors to play with then


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> I know you guys like GEC tubes, tube amps and adapters, so thought I'd post a few pics of my amps with GEC TT21s with adapters. I like these tubes just as much, if not more so than the GEC KT88s.
> 
> Steampunk amps.




Great stuff!


----------



## 2359glenn

I was looking at the specs of the EL11 and they are about the same as the EL3N.
So close it seems to be a EL3N with a different base.
Somebody asked about making a amp with sockets fore a EL11 might have to change the plate resistor
to make these tubes sound there best. That would work for the EL3N also.
I really don't know why these tubes sound so good with the parameters of a 6SN7.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> I know you guys like GEC tubes, tube amps and adapters, so thought I'd post a few pics of my amps with GEC TT21s with adapters. I like these tubes just as much, if not more so than the GEC KT88s.
> 
> Steampunk amps.



Crazy Nice Gear, LS...!!  

Congrats!


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> With all due respect, I would point out that those who have built-in Hexfred rectification cannot even try 5-volt tube rectifiers in a GOTL. And thus, it is impossible for them to know if they might in fact prefer vacuum tube rectification. Whereas, those of us who use 5-volt rectifiers can also use one of Glenn's Hexfred plug-ins, and therefore, we can directly compare Hexfred to tube.
> 
> So it might be more valid to ask those who use tube rectifiers in the GOTL if any of us would complain if that ability was taken away. And I am willing to be the first to go on record: I can not imagine being limited to using only the plug-in Hexfred. No way!
> 
> ...


Hi hibosi,
You are right, I forgot that you can eat your cake and have it, too. You could order the amp with the rectifier socket, and then use a plug-in Hexfred.
So in my case I guess ignorance is bliss lol. It seems to me through my reading that rectifier tubes can be temperamental and that they sometimes blow up, more so than regular tubes.
For tone controls I use the tone controls in my ss preamp section, or sometimes cables. And with the Hexfred you can load in more tubes since the current draw is less from a Hexfred than a rectifier.


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes and no still loose 1/4 of filament current the Lundahl transformer has 4 filament winding's that I parallel if it has a rectifier tube 
I use one for that tube. Then only 3 winding's are paralleled for the rest of the tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Here is a 300B amp I am finishing up it has 8 ohm speaker outputs.
The small tube in the middle is a Amperite time delay tube to do a slow start. Needed because the amp has HEXFREDS instead of a rectifier tube.


----------



## SonicTrance

@2359glenn 
Do you mind sharing a pic of the insides of the 300b amp? It looks very nice!


----------



## UntilThen (Nov 11, 2018)

What a beauty. Frontal shot please Glenn.

What are the 2 metal knobs beside the power tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

SonicTrance said:


> @2359glenn
> Do you mind sharing a pic of the insides of the 300b amp? It looks very nice!



Here is a pic of the last one I built that has rectifier tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn (Nov 11, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> What a beauty. Frontal shot please Glenn.
> 
> What are the 2 metal knobs beside the power tube.



I will shortly back to working on it now.

The 2 knobs are bias adjustment to set the 300B current.


----------



## felix3650

2359glenn said:


> Here is a pic of the last one I built that has rectifier tubes.



As an electronics engineer I can only say good things at the sight of an old school wiring style.


----------



## 2359glenn (Nov 11, 2018)

felix3650 said:


> As an electronics engineer I can only say good things at the sight of an old school wiring style.



No circuit boards I work with them at work and no SS in that amp.
Except for the LM338 adjustable regulator for the 300B filament and rectifier for the filaments.


----------



## felix3650

2359glenn said:


> No circuit boards I work with them at work and no SS in that amp



I do see a lot of circuit boards at my work too (mostly digital electronics except for some HPAs that have tuning oscillators, RC filters, schottky diodes etc). Still nice to see some manual wiring


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> What a beauty. Frontal shot please Glenn.
> 
> What are the 2 metal knobs beside the power tube.


You can adjust those knobs to set the bias for the power tubes. Let Glenn know what power tubes you are running, and he will tell you what the bias settings should be.

Thanks all for the kinds words regarding my tube system. It's literally taken me decades of purchasing/upgrading and lot's of trips to the post office to collect/drop off various pieces of gear over the years. All pieces are used or demo. 

Shame I couldn't also squeeze in a pic of the Glenn 300B - but rest assured it's in the same room just around the corner on the left hand side.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> You can adjust those knobs to set the bias for the power tubes. Let Glenn know what power tubes you are running, and he will tell you what the bias settings should be.
> 
> Thanks all for the kinds words regarding my tube system. It's literally taken me decades of purchasing/upgrading and lot's of trips to the post office to collect/drop off various pieces of gear over the years. All pieces are used or demo.
> 
> Shame I couldn't also squeeze in a pic of the Glenn 300B - but rest assured it's in the same room just around the corner on the left hand side.



The under side picture I posted is your Amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi hibosi,
> You are right, I forgot that you can eat your cake and have it, too. You could order the amp with the rectifier socket, and then use a plug-in Hexfred.
> So in my case I guess ignorance is bliss lol. It seems to me through my reading that rectifier tubes can be temperamental and that they sometimes blow up, more so than regular tubes.
> For tone controls I use the tone controls in my ss preamp section, or sometimes cables. And with the Hexfred you can load in more tubes since the current draw is less from a Hexfred than a rectifier.



Actually, Mordy...
A full wave bridge of solid state rectifiers, offer more rectified current than tubes, therefore you have more current available to draw from.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Here is a 300B amp I am finishing up it has 8 ohm speaker outputs.
> The small tube in the middle is a Amperite time delay tube to do a slow start. Needed because the amp has HEXFREDS instead of a rectifier tube.



Are those Transistors, heat sync'ed on the back, Glenn?


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Are those Transistors, heat sync'ed on the back, Glenn?



Yes they are heat sink actually they are LM338 5 amp adjustable regulators used for 5 volt regulated for the 300Bs filaments.
I run the C3g's on DC voltage too in this amp. A $4000 amp has to be quiet.


----------



## gibosi (Nov 11, 2018)

A little more news about the new Western Electric

Keep in mind that 300B were $800 a pair when the same fellow was making them in Kansas City 20 years ago.  I suspect that this batch will cost quite a bit more.

~~~~~~~~
The anticipation grows each day with progress at the Rossville Works in full swing. Before long, fresh tubes will be available for pre-order.

We're checking big items off the to-do list each week that bring us closer to our December goal. Process coolant lines were installed, we ran a complete test of our new reduction ovens, two anode presses were serviced and cleaned, more electrical, hydrogen, nitrogen, CO2, and deionized water lines were run, and two degreaser units were switched on. See the latest factory reel below.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> A little more news about the new Western Electric
> 
> Keep in mind that 300B were $800 a pair when the same fellow was making them in Kansas City 20 years ago.  I suspect that this batch will cost quite a bit more.
> 
> ...



Hi gibosi,
That WE clip did not tell you much about the new tube and how it is made. Found an old 1940 reel produced by Western Electric that is both informative and funny about how vacuum tubes work and how the WE tubes are made. It is also very interesting to be taken back in time almost 80 years.
I learned new things, such as about "the atomic community", midgets running in a crowded subway, and monkeys throwing pebbles.
And I learned that the official burn-in period of WE tubes was 8-16 hours and that their (broadcast) tubes were designed to last 50,000 hours!
If you have 21 minutes I recommend this movie.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> That WE clip did not tell you much about the new tube and how it is made. Found an old 1940 reel produced by Western Electric that is both informative and funny about how vacuum tubes work and how the WE tubes are made. It is also very interesting to be taken back in time almost 80 years.
> I learned new things, such as about "the atomic community", midgets running in a crowded subway, and monkeys throwing pebbles.
> And I learned that the official burn-in period of WE tubes was 8-16 hours and that their (broadcast) tubes were designed to last 50,000 hours!
> If you have 21 minutes I recommend this movie.




Thanks for the video Mordy. I had a good laugh at the monkey's throwing rocks (coconuts?) at the bullseye. Really interesting manufacturing process.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I was looking at the specs of the EL11 and they are about the same as the EL3N.
> So close it seems to be a EL3N with a different base.



Same DNA. https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el11.html
with exception of its Y8A "steel-tube" base, the EL11 is fully identical with the EL3N of the Philips red series

Aside from base difference, EL3N is slightly warm whereas EL11 is more neutral.

Tubedepot has this to say about EL3N -
Longer lasting and great sounding, connected as triode this is the perfect driver for a 2A3 or 300B SE amplifier.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Same DNA. https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el11.html
> with exception of its Y8A "steel-tube" base, the EL11 is fully identical with the EL3N of the Philips red series
> 
> Aside from base difference, EL3N is slightly warm whereas EL11 is more neutral.
> ...



Wow Tubedepot wants $99 for the EL3N I was getting them for $20


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> That WE clip did not tell you much about the new tube and how it is made. Found an old 1940 reel produced by Western Electric that is both informative and funny about how vacuum tubes work and how the WE tubes are made. It is also very interesting to be taken back in time almost 80 years.
> I learned new things, such as about "the atomic community", midgets running in a crowded subway, and monkeys throwing pebbles.
> And I learned that the official burn-in period of WE tubes was 8-16 hours and that their (broadcast) tubes were designed to last 50,000 hours!
> If you have 21 minutes I recommend this movie.




Great Mordy!!!

"Freeing those electrons from the atoms that bind them"....


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Great Mordy!!!
> 
> "Freeing those electrons from the atoms that bind them"....


I guess using vacuum tubes I am a member of the Atomic Community.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> I guess using vacuum tubes I am a member of the Atomic Community.



Or a monkey.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I guess using vacuum tubes I am a member of the Atomic Community.



Yes, certainly touted as a big futuristic breakthrough.

I liked the 10 and 99 zeros to describe how many times your voice was amplified, to be able to push that analog signal through that much copper wire (NYC to SFC).


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Or a monkey.


I see that you like what's going on in a vacuum tube:


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> I see that you like what's going on in a vacuum tube:



Your amp is full of monkeys. Don't take the bottom off or they will all get out and be running around your house throughing coco nuts.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Love this, too:

Without Western Electric vacuum tubes...the simple transmission of your voice across the US would require 150,000 hog callers...standing within earshot of one another, and 5 hours to get an utterance across the great nation...


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Love this, too:
> 
> Without Western Electric vacuum tubes...the simple transmission of your voice across the US would require 150,000 hog callers...standing within earshot of one another, and 5 hours to get an utterance across the great nation...



Maybe the pony express was the only way


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Maybe the pony express was the only way


This movie was made in 1940 and the announcer said that 100 million tubes had been produced if I heard correctly.
Where are they? And no wonder why new tubes constantly pop up for sale......


----------



## UntilThen

Heard from Mrs Xu today that she tried many times to make the EL11 to c3g adapter but fail. 

Hello,friend today i was try make el11 to c3g adapter,but very difficult fixed solder guide key.broken 10pieces nos tube got guide key but can't use.see photos.
thanks!


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Heard from Mrs Xu today that she tried many times to make the EL11 to c3g adapter but fail.
> 
> Hello,friend today i was try make el11 to c3g adapter,but very difficult fixed solder guide key.broken 10pieces nos tube got guide key but can't use.see photos.
> thanks!



Well at least she tried. I was hoping to have a nicer solution for the EL8/11s but I don’t mind the current adapter I have. Thanks for looking into it UT.


----------



## mordy

Going through my boxes of tubes. Everything goes better with Coke, I mean, sounds better with the GOTL, so I have to revisit my stash to hear how it sounds in the GOTL.
Today I listened to 6N7G tubes. I have a couple - all from the 40's: Arcturus, Sylvania, Delco and a 1948 French Mazda(Visseux?) with the logo of the French Air Force.



All sound good, but the Mazda (pictured) sounds special, and beautiful tube glow. The Delco is also very good sounding.
The EEC31 is in the same family. Did not compare it today, but from memory it should trump the others.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Heard from Mrs Xu today that she tried many times to make the EL11 to c3g adapter but fail.
> 
> Hello,friend today i was try make el11 to c3g adapter,but very difficult fixed solder guide key.broken 10pieces nos tube got guide key but can't use.see photos.
> thanks!



I don't know what to do other then the SN7 socket.
The C3g sockets would be better they have the right cathode resistor for the EL11


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Going through my boxes of tubes. Everything goes better with Coke, I mean, sounds better with the GOTL, so I have to revisit my stash to hear how it sounds in the GOTL.
> Today I listened to 6N7G tubes. I have a couple - all from the 40's: Arcturus, Sylvania, Delco and a 1948 French Mazda(Visseux?) with the logo of the French Air Force.
> 
> All sound good, but the Mazda (pictured) sounds special, and beautiful tube glow. The Delco is also very good sounding.
> The EEC31 is in the same family. Did not compare it today, but from memory it should trump the others.



I am jealous!! All of my 6N7's have hum...to one degree or another.   Unable to unhear it...so I don't use them...

Visseaux 6n7 has the least...and I could live with it, if I had to.  They do sound really good in the GOTL....


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Heard from Mrs Xu today that she tried many times to make the EL11 to c3g adapter but fail.
> 
> Hello,friend today i was try make el11 to c3g adapter,but very difficult fixed solder guide key.broken 10pieces nos tube got guide key but can't use.see photos.
> thanks!



I figured this would be a really tough one to solve.  Base for EL11 is different than EL3N, but sound very similar, wonder if she can make Loctal to side contact?


----------



## UntilThen

She did it after all though not pretty at all.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1Piece-...682030?hash=item2f260a736e:g:T1QAAOSwHjtb63fW


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> She did it after all though not pretty at all.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1Piece-...682030?hash=item2f260a736e:g:T1QAAOSwHjtb63fW



Yeah for you and Mrs Xu....looks like it wil go in okay, but might be a little tricky to get it out of the socket, again?


----------



## JazzVinyl

The monkeys chuck'n the coconuts through the screen at the target...are hitting the target, 100% of the time, in my Amperex ECC88...

Teamed up with the monkey chuckers in a six pack of 6BL7's...

Is really good stuff in the GOTL....


----------



## 2359glenn

Looks OK.
JV will come out easy no locking key way.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Looks OK.
> JV will come out easy no locking key way.



Gotcha.

How about side contact to Loctal, thinking EL8 to C3g socket.  How is the cathode resistor value for that conversion, Glenn?


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Gotcha.
> 
> How about side contact to Loctal, thinking EL8 to C3g socket.  How is the cathode resistor value for that conversion, Glenn?



It is fine for the EL3N EL8 close to same resistor


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> She did it after all though not pretty at all.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1Piece-...682030?hash=item2f260a736e:g:T1QAAOSwHjtb63fW



Hi @UntilThen 

Which EL11 tubes can you recommend with reasonable price?


----------



## UntilThen

I have 2 of those adapters ordered and will test it out first. I will enquire if they can also make the EL3N / EL8 to c3g adapter.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> She did it after all though not pretty at all.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1Piece-...682030?hash=item2f260a736e:g:T1QAAOSwHjtb63fW



Really cheep $10.50 why shch a low price?


----------



## whirlwind

I have a few of the rectifier tubes for the EL3N amp that have the same pins, depends on the tube as to how nice they fit into my adapter.
A couple of them really don't seat well, but they work fine.


----------



## rnros (Nov 14, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> I have 2 of those adapters ordered and will test it out first. I will enquire if they can also make the EL3N / EL8 to c3g adapter.



Might be a good idea to ask if she can get the Yamamoto sockets. She might be able to find a convenient source from Japan.
From JV's recent experience, seems she hasn't solved the problem yet. Just a lot of wasted time and money if she uses the same lot of sockets.
Hard to believe China can't make a good EL3N socket. Of course they can, they make all the Apple gear.


----------



## whirlwind

The Yamamoto sockets are leaps and bounds better than the Chinese version.
No comparison, really.


----------



## rnros (Nov 14, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> The Yamamoto sockets are leaps and bounds better than the Chinese version.
> No comparison, really.



Indeed. No. Comparison.

And there have to be suppliers in Hong Kong who carry them.
Probably at a good price.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Update on 6N7 and hum in my GOTL...

Mordy PM'ed and suggested I try a pair of power tubes furthest away from SN7 socket to see if the hum from 6N7 would be less or gone.  He was right, 6080's farthest away from 6N7 and the hum was gone.  But I didn't think sounded as good as with 6x 6BL7's...

So I tried 4x 6BL7's farthest back, and the metal Ken-Rad 6N7... Success! Hum is gone, and it sounds great.


----------



## felix3650

Guys, any difference between Lorentz C3g and Siemens C3g? Intuition tells me no and reading around seems like they're made from the same factory in Ulm (I think?). The more opinions the better


----------



## Phantaminum

felix3650 said:


> Guys, any difference between Lorentz C3g and Siemens C3g? Intuition tells me no and reading around seems like they're made from the same factory in Ulm (I think?). The more opinions the better



I have both and I have to say that the Lorenz are darker than either Siemens or Telefunken c3gs. When I first popped them in I thought something was wrong. It’s just they’re dark. I haven’t had time to burn them in so I’m not sure if they ever do change after time.


----------



## mordy

Was able to find somebody who could make C3g adapters for EL11 and EL3N tubes:













No circuit boards here, but looks like old world craftsmanship. I have not received these adapters yet, but should have them within two weeks time and will report then.
They are made by seller ein_sof in Bulgaria. He has been very cooperative, quick, and responsive, and seems very knowledgeable. 
I do not have experience with him from before, but I think somebody mentioned him and had positive experiences.
He seems to have the ability, equipment and know how to make any custom adapters. Here is a link if you want to contact him:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-7N7-7F...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## UntilThen

That's a much better option Mordy. How much are they?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Was able to find somebody who could make C3g adapters for EL11 and EL3N tubes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They look nice!!
I looked on his E-Bay store and didn't see any. Did you buy all he had??


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> They look nice!!
> I looked on his E-Bay store and didn't see any. Did you buy all he had??


These were custom made at my request and not something that he had done before. I am sure that he can make more if people are interested.
He seems to have a good knowledge of what he is doing and access to a machine shop as well. Responds very quickly to any questions or emails, and produces the stuff very quickly.
I also ordered some other adapters and socket savers that he made to order.
Will let you know how everything works out once I get them.


----------



## mordy (Nov 14, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> That's a much better option Mordy. How much are they?


I ordered a bunch of stuff and got a package deal but just email him and he will answer your questions. All shipping was free.
The prices were competitive.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> These were custom made at my request and not something that he had done before. I am sure that he can make more if people are interested.
> He seems to have a good knowledge of what he is doing and access to a machine shop as well. Responds very quickly to any questions or emails, and produces the stuff very quickly.
> I also ordered some other adapters and socket savers that he made to order.
> Will let you know how everything works out once I get them.



Thanks, Mordy. They look nice. Will give these a try.


----------



## gibosi

felix3650 said:


> Guys, any difference between Lorentz C3g and Siemens C3g? Intuition tells me no and reading around seems like they're made from the same factory in Ulm (I think?). The more opinions the better



Later tubes, shiny-black and white lettering were all made by Siemens. But the earlier ones, flat-black and embossed tops, were actually made by Lorenz. And in my experience, the Lorenz are indeed darker.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Was able to find somebody who could make C3g adapters for EL11 and EL3N tubes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is the same vendor who custom-made B4 to 3DG4 rectifier adapters for me. And yes, based on my experience with him, I would recommend him.


----------



## Phantaminum

rnros said:


> Hi JV,
> I still owe you that comparison, EL3N vs EL8, took me awhile to get around to it, and then I just plain forgot to get back to you.
> So, my apologies for being slow and absent minded. My wife keeps me keenly aware of these faults!
> 
> ...


.
I've been running the EL8s for several days now and I found that I agree with all of your thoughts. Most tubes on Glenn's OTL have a pretty wide sound stage but the EL8s give me the feeling as if i'm sinking into a deep sound stage. Low level cues and reverb are making me smile and with great extension on at both ends. These and the synergy of the c3gs with the HD650s really surprised me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

F question for Glenn...the EL8 is a single triode.  The


mordy said:


> Was able to find somebody who could make C3g adapters for EL11 and EL3N tubes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very nice Mordy...

Certainly appears that he cut off the bottoms of local based tubes to get the Loctal bases....looks excellent! 
Now for some Yamamoto side contact sockets on top 

Great job, finding this fellow!


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> .
> I've been running the EL8s for several days now and I found that I agree with all of your thoughts. Most tubes on Glenn's OTL have a pretty wide sound stage but the EL8s give me the feeling as if i'm sinking into a deep sound stage. Low level cues and reverb are making me smile and with great extension on at both ends. These and the synergy of the c3gs with the HD650s really surprised me.



I have the EL8s in for over a week now and really liking them. At first I thought the EL3N was better but I am really liking the sound
from these EL8s leaving them in.


----------



## dminches

whirlwind said:


> dminches......What PY500 tubes are those ?



Telefunken


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> .
> I've been running the EL8s for several days now and I found that I agree with all of your thoughts. Most tubes on Glenn's OTL have a pretty wide sound stage but the EL8s give me the feeling as if i'm sinking into a deep sound stage. Low level cues and reverb are making me smile and with great extension on at both ends. These and the synergy of the c3gs with the HD650s really surprised me.



Your running EL8's and C3g's PH?   What for powers?

I have the C3g's and VT-231 in...and six Pack of 6BL7.. 
You better be sitting down when you hear these...or the bass might knock you down...


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> This is the same vendor who custom-made B4 to 3DG4 rectifier adapters for me. And yes, based on my experience with him, I would recommend him.


Ken knew who had referred this guy to him.


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Your running EL8's and C3g's PH?   What for powers?
> 
> I have the C3g's and VT-231 in...and six Pack of 6BL7..
> You better be sitting down when you hear these...or the bass might knock you down...



Hey JV,

The c3gs with a six pack of GE 6BX7s really pack a punch on the HD650s. I can't imagine taking much more force! Which VT-231s are you using JV?


----------



## felix3650

Phantaminum said:


> I have both and I have to say that the Lorenz are darker than either Siemens or Telefunken c3gs. When I first popped them in I thought something was wrong. It’s just they’re dark. I haven’t had time to burn them in so I’m not sure if they ever do change after time.





gibosi said:


> Later tubes, shiny-black and white lettering were all made by Siemens. But the earlier ones, flat-black and embossed tops, were actually made by Lorenz. And in my experience, the Lorenz are indeed darker.



Thanks 

By darker you guys mean rolled off highs and elevated bass and low-mids (comonly used definition of dark)? If so I think I'll go for the Siemens. Don't want any detail to be lost even though sometimes I'm a bit more sensible to the upper-mid lower-treble region of 2-6Khz some masterings emphasise to make the impression of a high quality recording.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Really cheep $10.50 why shch a low price?



No frills.


----------



## whirlwind

dminches said:


> Telefunken



Thanks. I don't have any Telefunkens, but I do have some that seem to have a similar construction.
Since they all seem to sound the same or very similar, I like the RCA, just because i am addicted to their glow.
I need to find a couple more sets for the upcoming OTL.

Love that these tubes are so cheap.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 15, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Hey JV,
> 
> The c3gs with a six pack of GE 6BX7s really pack a punch on the HD650s. I can't imagine taking much more force! Which VT-231s are you using JV?



Hello PH...
Ken-Rad for VT-231
Using 6BL not 6BX, BL's even more gain than BX, have to turn the input down a bit not to have too much gain.

But that said...one of my absolute favorite combo's in the GOTL is:

Six pack 6BL7
and
ECC88 Amperex (Phillips) as driver

Just right, for my tastes/phones.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> That's a much better option Mordy. How much are they?


The adapters are $25 each, including shipping. Each one is made to order. If you have any special requests he will accommodate you.


----------



## Phantaminum (Nov 15, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello PH...
> Ken-Rad for VT-231
> Using 6BL not 6BX, BL's even more gain than BX, have to turn the input down a bit not to have too much gain.
> 
> ...



Yesterday I got into a roll frenzie and listened to all three of the Amperex 6922s I had. One is from Holland, the other two from the US but one is a pinched waist. While I really enjoyed he smoothness of the Holland (very liquid) it had a rolled off bottom end. I more enjoyed the US Amperex. Good taste in tubes JV.

Is the Ken-Rad VT231 the same as a Sylvania Badboy? I like that tube as well.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Thanks. I don't have any Telefunkens, but I do have some that seem to have a similar construction.
> Since they all seem to sound the same or very similar, I like the RCA, just because i am addicted to their glow.
> I need to find a couple more sets for the upcoming OTL.
> 
> Love that these tubes are so cheap.



I will send you a bunch of them really don't use them anymore and I have like 20 of them.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> Yesterday I got into a roll frenzie and listened to all three of the Amperex 6922s I had. One is from Holland, the other two from the US but one is a pinched waist. While I really enjoyed he smoothness of the Holland (very liquid) it had a rolled off bottom end. I more enjoyed the US Amperex. Good taste in tubes JV.
> 
> Is the Ken-Rad VT231 the same as a Sylvania Badboy? I like that tube as well.




The Ken Rad’s have pronounced bass and rolled off highs, which just happens to match well with the C3g’s that I own....


 


Interesting about your rolled off 6922 bass.   
Like my ECC88 for the opposite reason...big fat bass 

.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> The adapters are $25 each, including shipping. Each one is made to order. If you have any special requests he will accommodate you.



$25 for a custom made adapter is reasonable. To fit the c3g base is not easy. I'll try out the adapters from Mrs Xu first to see if the EL11s sound any different from what they are as dual in the 6sn7 slot.

I had the EL11s and 6bx7s in the OTL amp for 2 weeks already.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> $25 for a custom made adapter is reasonable. To fit the c3g base is not easy. I'll try out the adapters from Mrs Xu first to see if the EL11s sound any different from what they are as dual in the 6sn7 slot.
> 
> I had the EL11s and 6bx7s in the OTL amp for 2 weeks already.


According to Glenn the bias setting for the C3g should be closer to the bias of EL tubes than the bias for the 6SN7.
Ein_sof also can make C3g to EL3 adapters for the same price.
Did you try EL12N instead of EL11?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I will send you a bunch of them really don't use them anymore and I have like 20 of them.



Thanks Glenn!


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> $25 for a custom made adapter is reasonable. To fit the c3g base is not easy. I'll try out the adapters from Mrs Xu first to see if the EL11s sound any different from what they are as dual in the 6sn7 slot.
> 
> I had the EL11s and 6bx7s in the OTL amp for 2 weeks already.



The EL11s should sound better in the C3g socket as long as she wired them straight through as a pentode.
And they are not triode wired like in a FA amp.  Looking at the circuit board I see trace jumping a couple of pins maybe I am seeing something that isn't there.


----------



## 2359glenn

Going through junk looking for something else I found two of these tubes 95397. They look like a 9 pin tube in a Loctal adapter but they are not.
They are Loctal tubes Philips SQ tube special quality. Have no idea what the pin configuration is can't find anything.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Going through junk looking for something else I found two of these tubes 95397. They look like a 9 pin tube in a Loctal adapter but they are not.
> They are Loctal tubes Philips SQ tube special quality. Have no idea what the pin configuration is can't find anything.



They look fantastic!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 15, 2018)

Another fine combo in Glenn's magic lantern...



P.S. - See below...actually like FDD20/6AS7 better...


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 15, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Going through junk looking for something else I found two of these tubes 95397. They look like a 9 pin tube in a Loctal adapter but they are not.
> They are Loctal tubes Philips SQ tube special quality. Have no idea what the pin configuration is can't find anything.



https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_95397.html

http://www.vintageradio.nl/buizen/95397.htm

Same as this except Loctal Base:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e83f.html

"Special quality valve designed for stability and long life."

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Question for Glenn...

Why is it desireable to tie the cathode and grid3 together,  in a C3g?


 P


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 15, 2018)

Also, for @UntilThen -

After tubes had been in for 20 mins....I heard what you reported with FDD20, the "sharp" upper mids/lower treble. 
Had in FDD20/6BX7/6AS7...

Removed 6BX7 a no more sharpness from FDD20/6AS7...

Also more gain, so looks like FDD20 Is not a perfect match for 6BX7...


----------



## 2359glenn

The E83F is a good sounding tube to bad the pinout is different from The C3g I would try it if it was the same.
Have no time to play with these nice tubes. I don't even know were I got them from.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> The E83F is a good sounding tube to bad the pinout is different from The C3g I would try it if it was the same.
> Have no time to play with these nice tubes. I don't even know were I got them from.



Yes, not quite the same...looks like grid3 and grid2 are swapped and grid3 is not tied to cathode as in C3g...

.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, not quite the same...looks like grid3 and grid2 are swapped and grid3 is not tied to cathode as in C3g...
> 
> .



Yes grid 3 is tied to the cathode.
  In the pentode valve / vacuum tube, the suppressor grid is generally maintained at a low voltage, often connected directly to the cathode. Its function is to create a lower voltage region between the screen grid and the anode. It suppresses the secondary emission where high energy electrons hitting the anode at high speed have a tendency to bounce off. This effect causes a kink in the response curve of tetrode valves. In this way it enables the pentode to provide a high amplification factor along with the ability to operate at high frequencies.


----------



## mordy (Nov 15, 2018)

Looks like Mrs Xuling is following the Glenn thread:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1Piece-EL3...=item2f260a7797:g:QZIAAOSw5wVb63hW:rk:20:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1Piece-6SJ...=item2f260a78f2:g:3~MAAOSwfX9b63i7:rk:21:pf:0

I am going to try the $5 EL32 tubes and the no frills adapters......

Also looking for an inexpensive source for the GE 5star 5670 with the *triple* mica.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Tube basics vid:


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Yes grid 3 is tied to the cathode.
> In the pentode valve / vacuum tube, the suppressor grid is generally maintained at a low voltage, often connected directly to the cathode. Its function is to create a lower voltage region between the screen grid and the anode. It suppresses the secondary emission where high energy electrons hitting the anode at high speed have a tendency to bounce off. This effect causes a kink in the response curve of tetrode valves. In this way it enables the pentode to provide a high amplification factor along with the ability to operate at high frequencies.



Very nicely explained!  Thank you.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Looks like Mrs Xuling is following the Glenn thread:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1Piece-EL3...=item2f260a7797:g:QZIAAOSw5wVb63hW:rk:20:pf:0
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1Piece-6SJ...=item2f260a78f2:g:3~MAAOSwfX9b63i7:rk:21:pf:0
> ...



6SJ7 another good sounding tube for cheep.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The EL11s should sound better in the C3g socket as long as she wired them straight through as a pentode.
> And they are not triode wired like in a FA amp.  Looking at the circuit board I see trace jumping a couple of pins maybe I am seeing something that isn't there.



Yup I wrote to confirm and they understood what is required.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> 6SJ7 another good sounding tube for cheep.



6sj7 is the driver used in La Figaro 339.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> 6sj7 is the driver used in La Figaro 339.


Which type is the best one?  Metal tube tube? Russian metal tube?  Glass tube? Glass with mesh plate?
RCA 5693




Ken-Rad 6SJ7




Sovtek 6SJ7




Glass Sylvania 6SJ7GT - VT116




Triangle 6SJ7 with mesh plate




Lots of choices at very low prices.


----------



## felix3650

Can you tell me if these Ken-Rad VT-231 are any good? I mean quality and price wise which link is more preferable:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-KEN-RAD-JAN-CKR-6SN7GT-VT-231-Military-tube-SC961A-NIB-/183407226916

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-HD-MI...233955?hash=item214851b0a3:g:olwAAOSwHMhbpOz3

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ke...840742&hash=item2abace50f6:g:1sIAAOSwa6ZbumXb

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ke...884423&hash=item5d82aad0e3:g:D5cAAOSwDrpbq-5r

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1MP-JAN-6S...804938?hash=item2ccde3944a:g:qfsAAOSwLs9bBoLu


----------



## mordy

And while we are on the topic of pentodes and mesh plates, what about this beautiful 1952 National Union JAN tube 6SG7GT?




Looks beautiful and $4.50 each.
But I think that both of these mesh plates are just stamped mesh and not true metal wire mesh - don't know, but some people say that real mesh sounds better (don't know if that is true either).


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Which type is the best one?  Metal tube tube? Russian metal tube?  Glass tube? Glass with mesh plate?
> RCA 5693
> Ken-Rad 6SJ7
> 
> ...



Get your wallets' out, Gents...


----------



## Phantaminum (Nov 15, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> The Ken Rad’s have pronounced bass and rolled off highs, which just happens to match well with the C3g’s that I own....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey JV,

There are two versions of the Amperex PQs. One is made in Holland and the other was made in the good old US. The Holland has very sweet mids and highs but the bottom is rolled off. The USA version of the tube has much more impact, great bottom end, but the mids are not as smooth as the Holland version. All around great tubes.

I received my '52 6H8C Russian Melz today and put them in to test them out. I forgot how great these Russian tubes can be and fit right in with the sound signature I'm looking for. They sound fantastic with the Auteurs and GE 6BX7s. Great extension on both ends, very nice bass, with a wide sound stage. Not as deep as the EL8s and doesn't pull out those little cues but sounds like an RCA and TS BGRP had a baby. Doesn't fatigue me like the Tung-Sols, Hollands, Ken-Rads, or National Union (but this one has really been getting a lot of head time).

Edit: I think I have two of those KRs. I'm going to try them this weekend.


----------



## JazzVinyl

felix3650 said:


> Can you tell me if these Ken-Rad VT-231 are any good? I mean quality and price wise which link is more preferable:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-KEN-RAD-JAN-CKR-6SN7GT-VT-231-Military-tube-SC961A-NIB-/183407226916
> 
> ...



Thank goodness you only need one for the GOTL...

If it's a 1940's Ken-Rad VT-231 and not noisey...they should all sound good (deep bass recessed treble).  Save a search for them, and be patient, wait for a deal...think I paid more like $49 for one...

Black glass or clear glass are said to sound the same...don't pay more for a black glass one


----------



## mordy (Nov 15, 2018)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KEN-RAD-VT...=item3d79a6827b:g:kAsAAOSwlypb2lhP:rk:40:pf:0

What about this pair? I don't have experience with these tubes myself, but maybe somebody can comment?


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 15, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Hey JV,
> 
> There are two versions of the Amperex PQs. One is made in Holland and the other was made in the good old US. The Holland has very sweet mids and highs but the bottom is rolled off. The USA version of the tube has much more impact, great bottom end, but the mids are not as smooth as the Holland version. All around great tubes.
> 
> ...



Hello PH...

I have two Amperex (Philips) ECC88's and both say "Made in Holland" but I think they have tremendous bass in my system paired with the six pack of 6BL7's.  They are really great sounding throughout the range.  Maybe a little bit smaller soundstage than some others (like the FDD20) but...they are dead quiet and rock solid dependable. And the right amount of mu to use with the six pack of 6BL7's.  They are easy to live with.

Do have a question...several times you have said the EL8's present "cues" - can you elaborate, please, on what you mean by that?

Happy for your Melz' tubes


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Which type is the best one? Metal tube tube? Russian metal tube? Glass tube? Glass with mesh plate?
> RCA 5693



I have a pair of relatively new RCA 5693. They are pretty good. The 6s7j mesh plates are supposed to be good.

Other pentodes that I have used in LF339 are the EF80 and EF86 pentodes.

I fear you have open the Pandora's box. The Martians have landed.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Did you try EL12N instead of EL11?



No I did not... yet. I was too pre-occupied with the Telefunkun EL11s. The last tube change was 2 weeks ago and that was with the 175 British pounds Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, a tube that I admired like it was a golden nugget that fell from the sky but the German Telefunken EL11s smash it. Well musically for me. 

I thought I paid a lot for the TFK EL11 but I checked and I only paid $42 aussie dollars each and it was NOS and came with the original TFK box. I am hoping it will last forever because EL11s just lock it in with the 6bx7s. Of course I am happy that I will be able to use these tubes in the OTL's c3g slots.

And I am also very curious at how the incoming TFK EL13s will perform.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 16, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Going through junk looking for something else I found two of these tubes 95397. They look like a 9 pin tube in a Loctal adapter but they are not.
> They are Loctal tubes Philips SQ tube special quality. Have no idea what the pin configuration is can't find anything.



I wish that I had a junk pile to go through like that  
Small amount of snow on the ground here.






JazzVinyl said:


> Thank goodness you only need one for the GOTL...
> 
> If it's a 1940's Ken-Rad VT-231 and not noisey...they should all sound good (deep bass recessed treble).  Save a search for them, and be patient, wait for a deal...think I paid more like $49 for one...
> 
> Black glass or clear glass are said to sound the same...don't pay more for a black glass one



So true, as long as they clear glass has the staggered plates, you can save some nice cash.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kenrad-vt-231-staggered-plates-clear-glass.893375/


----------



## mordy

Unexpected 6” of snow here - chaos on roads. Some kids needed 6 hours to get home with school buses.


----------



## JazzVinyl

We got 7 inches last Sunday...

But no panic...


----------



## leftside

Where are you guys located with snow? I'm still mountain biking here out west. Been an unusually dry November. That's sure to change soon...


----------



## lukeap69

Snow? What is that? LOL


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Unexpected 6” of snow here - chaos on roads. Some kids needed 6 hours to get home with school buses.



Here in NC if there was 6" of snow yesterday every one would still be stuck. 2" will have everything closed couldn't even get McDonalds pitiful.


----------



## mordy

I am in the New York City northern suburbs. What was unusual yesterday was that only a little snow was forecast, and suddenly a lot came down very  very quickly, in the middle of rush hour. It was so slippery that cars and busses couldn't get up even small hills. Everything ground to a standstill for hours.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Denver, CO

Snow is our drinking water.  
We panic if it does NOT snow.


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello PH...
> 
> I have two Amperex (Philips) ECC88's and both say "Made in Holland" but I think they have tremendous bass in my system paired with the six pack of 6BL7's.  They are really great sounding throughout the range.  Maybe a little bit smaller soundstage than some others (like the FDD20) but...they are dead quiet and rock solid dependable. And the right amount of mu to use with the six pack of 6BL7's.  They are easy to live with.
> 
> ...



Hey JV,

Just small things in the background that I did not know were there. For example, the clicks on a trumpet when any of the valves are depressed or the guitar player sliding his palm across the guitar (not the strings). Small little cues in the background that were not apparent before. 

I'm hoping the '52 Melz pair don't turn bright like the '60s Melz I think have a different getter build compared to the '50s.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Snow? What is that? LOL



You are spoiled Arnold!


----------



## Monsterzero

Rectifier question:

As some of you know I have the new ZMF headphones here with me. With the C3Gs and Mullard GZ32 the bass on the Verite was too over powering at times. I swapped those tubes out and put in a Tung Sol Round plate and the 3DG4 that came with the GOTL. Now the bass is much more in line with the rest of the sound.

Do you guys have any suggestions on reasonably priced rectifiers that have bass somewhere in the middle,not too much like the GZ32,but a bit more punchy than the 3DG4?

The other tubes are the GE 6BX7s .


----------



## rnros (Nov 16, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> Rectifier question:
> 
> As some of you know I have the new ZMF headphones here with me. With the C3Gs and Mullard GZ32 the bass on the Verite was too over powering at times. I swapped those tubes out and put in a Tung Sol Round plate and the 3DG4 that came with the GOTL. Now the bass is much more in line with the rest of the sound.
> 
> ...



Haven't heard 3DG4, so can't comment on a comparative basis, but the following are all capable of providing full, realistic, and controlled bass dependent, of course, on the driver and power tube selection.

Very low cost, $10-$20: 5CU4, 5AW4
Low cost, ~$40, adapter req'd: 1641/RK60
Higher cost, ~$100: Mullard GZ37
Higher cost, $150-$200, adapter req'd: 596

Because of tonal and stage characteristics, I usually have the 1641 or 596 installed.
There is also a frequently mentioned rectifier review thread, just do a HeadFi search.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> Hey JV,
> 
> Just small things in the background that I did not know were there. For example, the clicks on a trumpet when any of the valves are depressed or the guitar player sliding his palm across the guitar (not the strings). Small little cues in the background that were not apparent before.
> 
> I'm hoping the '52 Melz pair don't turn bright like the '60s Melz I think have a different getter build compared to the '50s.



Thanks for the explanation PH, I call those "minute details" instead of "cues",  I still do not have my EL8's going, looking forward (eventually) to comparing them to my current favorite drivers.

I have done a lot of driver rolling lately, keep coming back to the 9 pin miniatures...the 12AU7's (ECC82) and ECC804 and ECC88...powered by the six pack of 6BL7's...

Think these 9 pins are hard to beat in this amp, with these drivers. Sweet bonus is how quiet and well behaved they are.

Luck with the new Melz', PH...


----------



## Monsterzero

rnros said:


> Very low cost, $10-$20: 5CU4, 5AW4
> Low cost, ~$40, adapter req'd: 1641/RK60
> Higher cost, ~$100: Mullard GZ37
> Higher cost, $150-$200, adapter req'd: 596



Ive been told the 5CU4 is hard to come by. Do you know of a source?
The GZ37 has less bass than the GZ32?


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Ive been told the 5CU4 is hard to come by. Do you know of a source?
> The GZ37 has less bass than the GZ32?



The 5CU4 is somewhat rare, but not expensive. The best way to find one is to save a search on eBay and then be patient.

Also, keep in mind that the Cossor 53KU is often labeled as a GZ37. Vendors often call it a "Fat GZ37". However, I suspect that it has more bass than you want and it tends to be expensive as well. The Mullard GZ37, or "Skinny GZ37", is likely what mross is referring to.

The following thread might be helpful:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> The following thread might be helpful:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/



Ive read that thread quite a few times. The RCA 5U4G by description sounds like it might be a good fit. Thoughts?

And,if so, are these legit?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-5U4G-B...h=item2cdf41c2d8:g:e8gAAOSwiwZb7K5J:rk:4:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OLD-ADMIRA...h=item1cc030a439:g:d9MAAOSwv-xbzi8h:rk:9:pf:0


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Ive read that thread quite a few times. The RCA 5U4G by description sounds like it might be a good fit. Thoughts?
> 
> And,if so, are these legit?
> 
> ...



Both appear to be RCA. However, they were manufactured later than the one that Dubstep Girl reviewed. The tube she reviewed was from the mid-1940's and had those metal umbrella spikes hanging down from the top mica. While I have one of the earlier ones, I do not have one like those listed in the links you posted, so can't say how they compare.

Also, it is important to remember that the older coke-bottle 5U4Gs cannot provide enough current to properly run the GOTL with 6336. 6AS7 or six 6BX7 as outputs. However, they will work fine with four 6BX7. The later 5U4GB, with the skinny tubular bottle will work with six 6BX7, but they might sound different than the older 5U4G's. I can't say....


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Both appear to be RCA. However, they were manufactured later than the one that Dubstep Girl reviewed. The tube she reviewed was from the mid-1940's and had those metal umbrella spikes hanging down from the top mica. While I have one of the earlier ones, I do not have one like those listed in the links you posted, so can't say how they compare.
> 
> Also, it is important to remember that the older coke-bottle 5U4Gs cannot provide enough current to properly run the GOTL with 6336. 6AS7 or six 6BX7 as outputs. However, they will work fine with four 6BX7. The later 5U4GB, with the skinny tubular bottle will work with six 6BX7, but they might sound different than the older 5U4G's. I can't say....



OK,glad I asked before hitting the "BUY" button.


----------



## rnros (Nov 17, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> Ive been told the 5CU4 is hard to come by. Do you know of a source?
> The GZ37 has less bass than the GZ32?



Here's one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/one-Raytheon-Black-Plate-5CU4-Tubes/223234070406?

Never heard the GZ32, so can't answer that question, but IMO,  the Mullard GZ37 does not have excessive bass.

Here's another:
https://vacuumtubesinc.com/index.php/5cu4.html


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 17, 2018)

Starting off the weekend with Gregg Allman Live...EL3N.....ZMF Ori
Head bobbin'...foot tappin' stuff.

Using the Loewe Radio AZ12 Mesh plate rectifier....this is a 4 volt rectifier manufactured between 1938 and 1942 I believe and they are pretty rare.....After I seen gibosi's, I just had to have one.
Sounds nice, and looks wonderful too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Starting off the weekend with Gregg Allman Live...EL3N.....ZMF Ori
> Head bobbin'...foot tappin' stuff.
> 
> Using the Loewe Radio AZ12 Mesh plate rectifier....this is a 4 volt rectifier manufactured between 1938 and 1942 I believe and they are pretty rare.....After I seen gibosi's, I just had to have one.
> Sounds nice, and looks wonderful too.



Awesome looking device you have there, Joe!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Expecting another snow dump, today...

So.....

 

And....


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Expecting another snow dump, today...
> 
> So.....
> 
> ...



The 6BL7s will keep you warm JV.  Great pics as always.


----------



## mordy (Nov 18, 2018)

Would you be afraid to buy this RCA 6F8G tube?
This tube was made in 1944 as a manufacturer's replacement for civilian use. It did not measure up to standard and was sold at a reduced price of 98c as sub standard (see note on OPA in the next post):








https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-19...=item1a5fc5fa7f:g:HnsAAOSwJtVbrMtz:rk:20:pf:0

On another note, I just bought a Ken-Rad 6N7G tube that looks like this one:




Is it possible that it was made by Tung Sol? Here is a similar looking Tung Sol 6F8G tube:


----------



## mordy

Another piece of American history: The OPA (Office of Price Administration) was established during the war years to control prices and rents. It existed between 1941 and 1947.





If the tube box says OPA on it you can use it to roughly date the tubes from 1942 to 1946 (the OPA was established in 1941 but became independent in 1942 and was gradually dissolved and abolished in 1947).


----------



## Xcalibur255

That's a cool piece of history.


----------



## mordy

If somebody is interested in these LS50 killers, the price dropped to $150 (!)/pair:
https://www.amazon.com/ELAC-Debut-B...=B07B4Q5587&psc=1&refRID=CH9E02BK96NB8Y7ZPAVG


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> If somebody is interested in these LS50 killers, the price dropped to $150 (!)/pair



Hello Mordy...

Great price but no room here.  Have 3 sets of quality bookshelf speakers that I would love to sell 

In the meantime:


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Mordy...
> 
> Great price but no room here.  Have 3 sets of quality bookshelf speakers that I would love to sell
> 
> In the meantime:



Hey JV,

Are those brown/red bases on the 6BX7s? I've never seen the bases in that color for those tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 19, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Hey JV,
> 
> Are those brown/red bases on the 6BX7s? I've never seen the bases in that color for those tubes.



Yes, Special Issue “Red Base” 6BX7’s 

No, actually, I painted the bases red w/high temperature spray paint...

Because...i have a bunch of BX7’s...but many do not play well together and go into oscillation.

When I finally identified 9 or so that play nice together...painted the bases so that I can fish out a good six pack when needed.

Oscillation is much less of a problem with 6BL7’s but can still happen...

I have blue high temp paint for well behaved 6BL7 bases, but have not gotten around to the task.

Also, PH....I do get scads and scads of micro details from 12AU7....do you have one to compare to your EL8’s?


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, Special Issue “Red Base” 6BX7’s
> 
> No, actually, I painted the bases red w/high temperature spray paint...
> 
> ...



That’s a great idea! I was thinking of marking the base with a specific color paint (just a dab) to signal that the set is quiet. Never thought of painting it. Looks classier than my idea. 

I have the adapter on order and should be getting here next week. The Mullard and a pair of Hollands/Philips tube will be here in two. I’ll let you know what I think about the combination. The Melz has been treating me well and has not changed to the brighter side. I’m really enjoying it. I’ll post pics later today.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> That’s a great idea! I was thinking of marking the base with a specific color paint (just a dab) to signal that the set is quiet. Never thought of painting it. Looks classier than my idea.
> 
> I have the adapter on order and should be getting here next week. The Mullard and a pair of Hollands/Philips tube will be here in two. I’ll let you know what I think about the combination. The Melz has been treating me well and has not changed to the brighter side. I’m really enjoying it. I’ll post pics later today.



Sounds good, PH....
Will be interested in your thoughts: 12AU7 vs EL8...

I have ordered the custom EL8 to C3g adapters that Mordy has coming from the fellow in Bulgaria.  Looking forward to the shootout of these two tubes myself 

If the EL8's outshine the 12AU7's that I have....it will be "Oh Happy Day" indeed...as I am very pleased with 12AU7 in the driver seat in this amp.

Cheers


----------



## JazzVinyl

Son of a biscuit eater...

The Baldwin 12AU7's....ummmm ummmm good!  Think they were made by Toshiba, look very similar to two Toshiba branded 12AU7's I have, but the Toshiba's have ladder plates, the Baldwins have T-plates...

Been comparing the 12AU7's all night...

After inserting the Baldwin, gotta go find some socks to put on...stunning clarity and huge yet distinct sound stage..."JV Approved" bass response...

The Baldwins were the least expensive of the lot, too (go figure).


----------



## felix3650

JazzVinyl said:


> Son of a biscuit eater...
> 
> The Baldwin 12AU7's....ummmm ummmm good!  Think they were made by Toshiba, look very similar to two Toshiba branded 12AU7's I have, but the Toshiba's have ladder plates, the Baldwins have T-plates...
> 
> ...


I'm reading online that Baldwin's 12AU7 was made in the US by Raytheon around the 1959. Correct me if I'm wrong.
And yeah they are quite cheap indeed, around 30$ a pair


----------



## m17xr2b

Can the E80CC be used as an input?


----------



## gibosi

m17xr2b said:


> Can the E80CC be used as an input?



It certainly can. In fact, it is one of my favorite drivers.


----------



## rnros (Nov 20, 2018)

m17xr2b said:


> Can the E80CC be used as an input?



On the GOTL? Sure, same 12AU7 pinout, bit higher amplification, 600mA heater, but twice the size and higher spec standard.
(12AU7/6SN7 adapter.)

Edit: Sorry @gibosi, we're typing at the same time this morning. : )


----------



## rnros

felix3650 said:


> I'm reading online that Baldwin's 12AU7 was made in the US by Raytheon around the 1959. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> And yeah they are quite cheap indeed, around 30$ a pair



Baldwin purchased tubes from multiple manufacturers.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 20, 2018)

rnros said:


> Baldwin purchased tubes from multiple manufacturers.



Yes, that is my understanding as well. 

Mine Say
Made in U.S.A.
AKL


Have numbers:

30
15
22

Green lettering...

T-plates, two Micas, Halo Getter


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, that is my understanding as well.  Whoever made mine...
> 
> Did good.



They were used as oscillators in the organs I worked on one that had over 80  6SN7s easy problem a hole bank of 6SN7s were out.
A wire to the filaments burned off.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The Baldwin 12AU7 box has label: "Guaranteed Premium Quality" and says manufactured by Sylvania...


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> They were used as oscillators in the organs I worked on one that had over 80  6SN7s easy problem a hole bank of 6SN7s were out.
> A wire to the filaments burned off.



My neighbors growing up had a Baldwin organ....don't seem them very often, these days.


----------



## JazzVinyl

NOS 1950 Sylvania...

Also have a Baldwin labeled 12AU7, gold letters and is a Toshiba w/Ladder plates, exact same construction as another I have that is labeled Toshiba...


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> NOS 1950 Sylvania...
> 
> Also have a Baldwin labeled 12AU7, gold letters and is a Toshiba w/Ladder plates, exact same construction as another I have that is labeled Toshiba...


Does it say Japan on the glass?


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> My neighbors growing up had a Baldwin organ....don't seem them very often, these days.



The older organs used 6SN7s then they went to 6FQ7s then 12AU7s
These things had allot of tubes and usually a 50 watt amplifier using 6L6s and a giant power transformer to power all the tubes.
I could fix them but couldn't tune them.


----------



## Phantaminum

There's been several recommendations concerning Mullard's ECC35. I have to say that it's probably the best tube I've heard in the GOTL paired with the Auteurs. As UT mentioned before, it's a very clear, articulate, dynamic, tube without any treble sharpness I hear in other tubes. Fantastic mids, timbre, and tone. 

Thank you guys for steering me to them. I'll be putting these aside for the weekends when I can sit down with the Ceasar, my Auteurs, and a nice glass of whiskey.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> There's been several recommendations concerning Mullard's ECC35. I have to say that it's probably the best tube I've heard in the GOTL paired with the Auteurs. As UT mentioned before, it's a very clear, articulate, dynamic, tube without any treble sharpness I hear in other tubes. Fantastic mids, timbre, and tone.
> 
> Thank you guys for steering me to them. I'll be putting these aside for the weekends when I can sit down with the Ceasar, my Auteurs, and a nice glass of whiskey.



Why not use it all the time? It probably will last 10,000 hrs.


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> Why not use it all the time? It probably will last 10,000 hrs.



If these tubes can last me 10,000 hours I'd be as happy as a clam at high tide. I find myself listening to music while working on an Excel document or another attention consuming task. I'm not really paying attention to the music and I feel that's a waste of a fantastic tube. I'll settle with an good sounding Russian tube or even better the NU 6C8Gs.


----------



## leftside

Who else is using a U18 to 5U4G rectifier adapter? Ken? I have these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-U18-U2...um-tube-adapter-socket-converter/291940484989

Glenn would like to take them apart to remove the resistor and wire them as a 3DG4. This would run them on the transformer instead of the resistor to prevent the the adapter getting hot. But, Glenn doesn't think he can get mine apart as they are filled with epoxy.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Who else is using a U18 to 5U4G rectifier adapter? Ken? I have these:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-U18-U2...um-tube-adapter-socket-converter/291940484989
> 
> Glenn would like to take them apart to remove the resistor and wire them as a 3DG4. This would run them on the transformer instead of the resistor to prevent the the adapter getting hot. But, Glenn doesn't think he can get mine apart as they are filled with epoxy.


Why don't you contact seller ein_sof in Bulgaria and ask him to make the adapters to your specifications?


----------



## gibosi

As Mordy suggests, ein_sof built the adapters I am using:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1412#post-14315557


----------



## leftside

Thanks guys. Will order a couple of EL11 to C3g adapters as well.


----------



## leftside

@2359glenn can we also use the EL11 tubes with EL11 to C3g adapter in the 300B amps?


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> @2359glenn can we also use the EL11 tubes with EL11 to C3g adapter in the 300B amps?



I don't see why not actually should work better in the 300B amp with higher B+ voltage.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> I don't see why not actually should work better in the 300B amp with higher B+ voltage.


I'll give it a try and report back when I get the adapters from Bulgaria.

All tubes with an EL11 base can also be used? I also have a pair of EL3N.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> I'll give it a try and report back when I get the adapters from Bulgaria.
> 
> All tubes with an EL11 base can also be used? I also have a pair of EL3N.



Try them the only thing that can happen is they don't sound good.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I'll give it a try and report back when I get the adapters from Bulgaria.
> 
> All tubes with an EL11 base can also be used? I also have a pair of EL3N.



I was just thinking that. You 300b amp will light up the southern skies. 

I will report on the EL13 tonight. Have been listening to it for a few days already.


----------



## felix3650

With all these EL11, EL8, EL13, EL3N drivers, would you say it's starting to sound close to the GEL3N amp but without the additional power?


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> With all these EL11, EL8, EL13, EL3N drivers, would you say it's starting to sound close to the GEL3N amp but without the additional power?



I can’t answer that because I have not heard GEL3N but I doubt it’s similar sounding because I am using EL13s with 6 x 6bx7 and that’s dynamic sounding.

I am listening to these tubes in an OTL amp and GEL3N isn’t an OTL amp.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> I can’t answer that because I have not heard GEL3N but I doubt it’s similar sounding because I am using EL13s with 6 x 6bx7 and that’s dynamic sounding.
> 
> I am listening to these tubes in an OTL amp and GEL3N isn’t an OTL amp.


Crap yeah, you're right. I forgot that the GEL3N is transformer coupled...stupid me.
Thanks UT


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> Crap yeah, you're right. I forgot that the GEL3N is transformer coupled...stupid me.
> Thanks UT



That's not to take anything away from a transformer coupled amp because I think the GEL3N is brilliantly voiced. Just going with other's impressions of Glenn's 300b and EL3N amp, I think their trademarks are dynamics, slam and agility. This is certainly true of the GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> There's been several recommendations concerning Mullard's ECC35. I have to say that it's probably the best tube I've heard in the GOTL paired with the Auteurs. As UT mentioned before, it's a very clear, articulate, dynamic, tube without any treble sharpness I hear in other tubes. Fantastic mids, timbre, and tone.
> 
> Thank you guys for steering me to them. I'll be putting these aside for the weekends when I can sit down with the Ceasar, my Auteurs, and a nice glass of whiskey.



I am glad you get to sample the ECC35. A fabulous driver in the GOTL. One that has captivated me until the arrival of the pentodes as strapped triodes. I really love EL11s with 6bx7gt. So much so I didn't change the tubes for 2 whole weeks. That's unusual for me. 

Then the EL13s arrived....


----------



## UntilThen

The boxes are still new and so are the tubes. These EL13s are presented as NOS NIB in the truest sense of the word. How do they preserve so well. These are from the 40s and 50s. Even the boxes are in immaculate condition.


----------



## UntilThen

The first listen and the EL13s sound as sparkling as the EL11s.... if not more so. That is a surprise because the EL13 are supposed to be half the power of the EL11.

It certainly doesn't sound like it's half the power because with the volume at 10am, it's as loud as the EL11s. With fast transients, great treble extensions, sparkling midrange and a bass that only strapped triodes can dish out, I'm loving the BIG presence with all the details and clarity that makes me love these EL13s in combination with 6 x 6bx7gt. 

I have just ordered a pair of EL8. I need to hear for myself how different or similar the EL8 is to the EL13. Likewise I'm waiting on the adapters to test out EL11 vs EL3N.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> That's not to take anything away from a transformer coupled amp because I think the GEL3N is brilliantly voiced. Just going with other's impressions of Glenn's 300b and EL3N amp, I think their trademarks are dynamics, slam and agility. This is certainly true of the GOTL.



No no I didn't meant that in a bad way. I too consider the GEL3N a step-up from the GOTL. How big of a step-up depends on what tubes are used on the OTL. And both are killer amps!! I can just imagine what a 300B can sound like...



UntilThen said:


> The first listen and the EL13s sound as sparkling as the EL11s.... if not more so. That is a surprise because the EL13 are supposed to be half the power of the EL11.
> 
> It certainly doesn't sound like it's half the power because with the volume at 10am, it's as loud as the EL11s. With fast transients, great treble extensions, sparkling midrange and a bass that only strapped triodes can dish out, I'm loving the BIG presence with all the details and clarity that makes me love these EL13s in combination with 6 x 6bx7gt.
> 
> I have just ordered a pair of EL8. I need to hear for myself how different or similar the EL8 is to the EL13. Likewise I'm waiting on the adapters to test out EL11 vs EL3N.



That is nice to hear! Can't wait to read your impressions


----------



## 2359glenn

felix3650 said:


> No no I didn't meant that in a bad way. I too consider the GEL3N a step-up from the GOTL. How big of a step-up depends on what tubes are used on the OTL. And both are killer amps!! I can just imagine what a 300B can sound like...
> 
> 
> 
> That is nice to hear! Can't wait to read your impressions



Me to!


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Who else is using a U18 to 5U4G rectifier adapter? Ken? I have these:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-U18-U2...um-tube-adapter-socket-converter/291940484989
> 
> Glenn would like to take them apart to remove the resistor and wire them as a 3DG4. This would run them on the transformer instead of the resistor to prevent the the adapter getting hot. But, Glenn doesn't think he can get mine apart as they are filled with epoxy.


 

I have an adapter just like this....mine runs really hot .
If you get someone to make you another adapter that does not run hot...give me a heads up and I will get one.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> The first listen and the EL13s sound as sparkling as the EL11s.... if not more so. That is a surprise because the EL13 are supposed to be half the power of the EL11.
> 
> It certainly doesn't sound like it's half the power because with the volume at 10am, it's as loud as the EL11s. With fast transients, great treble extensions, sparkling midrange and a bass that only strapped triodes can dish out, I'm loving the BIG presence with all the details and clarity that makes me love these EL13s in combination with 6 x 6bx7gt.
> 
> I have just ordered a pair of EL8. I need to hear for myself how different or similar the EL8 is to the EL13. Likewise I'm waiting on the adapters to test out EL11 vs EL3N.



Good News. Thanks, UT. 
Looking forward to the developing story. Definitely will have to try the EL13, with the C3g adapters.
I imagine there will be some differences between the EL8 and EL13, as you would normally find between factories/brands.
Been listening to the EL8 since July, still loving them months later. Don't like the 2fer adapter, eh, easy to ignore.
Maybe they will sound just as good in the C3g slots. Maybe better!  
BTW, the EL8s are some of the quietest tubes, totally black, nothing, and that's with several pairs. Assume EL13s are the same.

Amazing that GOTL is so transparent and capable with all these tubes.


----------



## lukeap69

Do the EL3N and EL8 have the same pin layout? EL11 and EL13 as well?
If this is the case, then probably two sets of adapters are enough to try the EL family of tubes. A pair of adapters from Bulgaria costs 50 bucks shipped. Is that a fair price?


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Do the EL3N and EL8 have the same pin layout? EL11 and EL13 as well?
> If this is the case, then probably two sets of adapters are enough to try the EL family of tubes. A pair of adapters from Bulgaria costs 50 bucks shipped. Is that a fair price?



Arnold, same pin layout for EL3N and EL8 as well as EL11 and EL13. I use the same dual adapters for both EL11 and EL13.

$50 for a pair shipped is what Mordy says. Seems ok to me for a custom made adapter, considering the c3g base is very difficult to make.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Good News. Thanks, UT.
> Looking forward to the developing story. Definitely will have to try the EL13, with the C3g adapters.
> I imagine there will be some differences between the EL8 and EL13, as you would normally find between factories/brands.
> Been listening to the EL8 since July, still loving them months later. Don't like the 2fer adapter, eh, easy to ignore.
> ...



There aren't many EL13s left. You have to be fast to get yourself a pair. 

The EL13s are very quiet. As quiet as my best Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. Incredible. When I power up the amp, a flash of light appears in the middle of the EL13s. Then it disappears and only the top is lighted. It's quite mesmerising. Nothing wrong with the tube. It seems to be a characteristic of the tube.

So it's the Valvo EL8 vs the Telefunken EL13. Love both brands.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> There aren't many EL13s left. You have to be fast to get yourself a pair.
> 
> The EL13s are very quiet. As quiet as my best Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. Incredible. When I power up the amp, a flash of light appears in the middle of the EL13s. Then it disappears and only the top is lighted. It's quite mesmerising. Nothing wrong with the tube. It seems to be a characteristic of the tube.
> 
> So it's the Valvo EL8 vs the Telefunken EL13. Love both brands.





UntilThen said:


> Arnold, same pin layout for EL3N and EL8 as well as EL11 and EL13. I use the same dual adapters for both EL11 and EL13.
> 
> $50 for a pair shipped is what Mordy says. Seems ok to me for a custom made adapter, considering the c3g base is very difficult to make.



How do both EL13 & EL8 compare to each other? Seems like the same tube but with a different base:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el8.html
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el13.html

Just like the EL3N and EL11:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3n.html
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el11.html

When you get all adapters please do a comparison/shoot-out between EL3N/EL11/EL13/EL8. It will really be interesting!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Does it say Japan on the glass?



The gold lettered Bladwin tube has a partially rubbed off "U.S.A." under Baldwin, but internal construction looks identical to the Toshiba...

These gold label "Baldwin" 12AU7's are often sold as Raytheon's.

The gold label Toshiba 12AU7 does says "Tokyo Shibaura Electric 2H"
Only difference I see in the two internally, is the plates are dull in the Toshiba and Shiny in the unspecified origin gold labeled Baldwin.

We do know Raytheon went "International" in the early 1970's - maybe Toshiba was the actual tube manufacturer for Raytheon, in Japan?


----------



## gibosi

Raytheon was among the first of the major American manufacturers to off-shore their production to Japan. They also had an arrangement with Hitachi. And in fact, sometimes you will see the "Hit Ray" brand


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Raytheon was among the first of the major American manufacturers to off-shore their production to Japan. They also had an arrangement with Hitachi. And in fact, sometimes you will see the "Hit Ray" brand



Ah yes...Hit-Ray.  Wonder if the Hitachi and Toshiba factories were one and the same?


----------



## JazzVinyl

felix3650 said:


> How do both EL13 & EL8 compare to each other? Seems like the same tube but with a different base:
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el8.html
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el13.html
> 
> ...



Nice to know about "Same but different bases".  Hopefully UT will confirm they sound the same, as well....


----------



## leftside

leftside said:


> Who else is using a U18 to 5U4G rectifier adapter? Ken? I have these:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-U18-U2...um-tube-adapter-socket-converter/291940484989
> 
> Glenn would like to take them apart to remove the resistor and wire them as a 3DG4. This would run them on the transformer instead of the resistor to prevent the the adapter getting hot. But, Glenn doesn't think he can get mine apart as they are filled with epoxy.


I've emailed Deyan in Bulgaria to see if he can make these adapters without the resistor and wired as a 3DG4 for our amps.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have Deyan in Bulgaria making me a pair of EL8 to C3g adapters.  He was very responsive and sends progress reports.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Six pack of 6BL7's makes a gigantic difference in bass weight vs the 6x of 6BX7's with the 1950 Sylvania (Baldwin) 12AU7.

For my tastes and phones, this is much more desireable. I rarely run my 6BX7's for this reason.
Of course, as gibosi says: YMMV

Cheers all...


----------



## gibosi (Nov 21, 2018)

leftside said:


> I've emailed Deyan in Bulgaria to see if he can make these adapters without the resistor and wired as a 3DG4 for our amps.



Again, he made these adapters for me last spring, FW4/500 to 3DG4. It will work with any B4 rectifier.


----------



## leftside

I wasn’t sure if they had the resistor or not, but now confirmed they don’t have the resistor. Thanks.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
_The gold label Toshiba 12AU7 does says "*To*kyo *Shiba*ura Electric 2H_
Here you see the origin of the name Toshiba.
2H = August 1952/62
Toshiba and Hitachi were different companies.
In general I have found that the Japanese tubes are of good quality.


----------



## Monsterzero

rnros said:


> Here's one:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/one-Raytheon-Black-Plate-5CU4-Tubes/223234070406?



Ended up grabbing that tube.Very clean pins and sounds fantastic with the Auteur. Theres still too much mid-bass reflection with the Verite for my tastes/collection.
Its early,but I think I prefer the Auteur vs. Verite.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Ended up grabbing that tube.Very clean pins and sounds fantastic with the Auteur. Theres still too much mid-bass reflection with the Verite for my tastes/collection.
> Its early,but I think I prefer the Auteur vs. Verite.



Did you try the 13D1 driver with the Verite?


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Did you try the 13D1 driver with the Verite?



Not yet. I like to do one tube swap at a time so I know what tube is doing what. Im currently using a Tung Sol 6SU7GTY ,which to my ears is a pretty neutral,detailed tube,so I dont know how much more mid bass I can subtract from the equation before the Verite sounds neutered.

Will roll the 13D1 in tonight.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Not yet. I like to do one tube swap at a time so I know what tube is doing what. Im currently using a Tung Sol 6SU7GTY ,which to my ears is a pretty neutral,detailed tube,so I dont know how much more mid bass I can subtract from the equation before the Verite sounds neutered.
> 
> Will roll the 13D1 in tonight.



Let me know how it turns out with the 13D1.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> _The gold label Toshiba 12AU7 does says "*To*kyo *Shiba*ura Electric 2H_
> Here you see the origin of the name Toshiba.
> 2H = August 1952/62
> ...



Nice on the Toshiba name origin.  Agree that the Japan tubes sound good.

Trying one of my three 1633 tubes...and it is sounding good.  This one not too bright (yeah).


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice on the Toshiba name origin.  Agree that the Japan tubes sound good.
> 
> Trying one of my three 1633 tubes...and it is sounding good.  This one not too bright (yeah).



You know my first amps only used the 25 volt 1633 and 13D1. But changed it to 6SN7 only for awhile due to people wanting to use 6SN7.
I thought $4 tubes that sounded good were great idea. What do I know.


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> Ended up grabbing that tube.Very clean pins and sounds fantastic with the Auteur. Theres still too much mid-bass reflection with the Verite for my tastes/collection.
> Its early,but I think I prefer the Auteur vs. Verite.



Interesting, describing it as 'mid-bass reflection' would put it in the boomy and/or atmospheric category rather than impactful and controlled/detailed.
If so, that's not the rectifier, I would look to the driver, power tube, or headphone. Process of elimination.
If you know the driver is clean, try different power tubes. Some power tubes can definitely overlay an 'atmospheric' bass quality.
Then again, different headphones can react differently to a particular power tube, some are more sensitive to subtle tube colorations.
All I know about Verite is that it's supposed to be cleaner/faster, that doesn't sound like what you're hearing.
Could also be a burn in issue, or a cup resonance, or just a bad driver.


----------



## gibosi

Well, a bit more than $4 each, but still, not all that expensive. Tung-Sol 6BX7, Lorenz C3g and Telefunken WE56. To my old ears, this is pretty great.


----------



## Monsterzero

rnros said:


> a cup resonance



This.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Well, a bit more than $4 each, but still, not all that expensive. Tung-Sol 6BX7, Lorenz C3g and Telefunken WE56. To my old ears, this is pretty great.


Just had a tune-up of my old ears. Slight imbalance corrected in the right channel, better definition and slam.
(The ENT doc removed some ear wax buildup)


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> You know my first amps only used the 25 volt 1633 and 13D1. But changed it to 6SN7 only for awhile due to people wanting to use 6SN7.
> I thought $4 tubes that sounded good were great idea. What do I know.



And indeed it was and is a great idea!

Your whole amp is incredibly well thought out. 

It’s a marvel


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Well, a bit more than $4 each, but still, not all that expensive. Tung-Sol 6BX7, Lorenz C3g and Telefunken WE56. To my old ears, this is pretty great.



I dont have the Lorenz versions of C3g but hearing everyone say they less bright than the Siemens’...makes me want them.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Ended up grabbing that tube.Very clean pins and sounds fantastic with the Auteur. Theres still too much mid-bass reflection with the Verite for my tastes/collection.
> Its early,but I think I _prefer the Auteur vs. Verite_.


Oh, no.


----------



## Monsterzero (Nov 21, 2018)

attmci said:


> Oh, no.



Allow me to elaborate a bit. I already own a very warm,bass heavy headphone(Atticus) and while the mids,highs,staging,and imaging are quite different between the two,the midbass,for me,is too similar to the Atticus to warrant a purchase. The Auteur is very different,and thats what I want.

To my ears and in a very rudimentary way the Verite sounds like the Atticus and Auteur had a love child. I think the Verite is a fantastic sounding headphone,and on many songs it is truly mindblowing. I just would prefer the midbass to be less intrusive on certain songs.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I dont have the Lorenz versions of C3g but hearing everyone say they less bright than the Siemens’...makes me want them.


Did somebody say that older Siemens versions of the C3g with embossed letters were made by Lorenz?


----------



## mordy

Today's trivia:
What does Brimar stand for?
*Bri*tish *ma*de American *r*atings.
Don't know what that means - maybe gibosi can elucidate?


----------



## gibosi (Nov 21, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> I dont have the Lorenz versions of C3g but hearing everyone say they less bright than the Siemens’...makes me want them.



They are definitely darker than the Siemens. The Telefunken rectifier is too bright with the Siemens, but sounds great with the Lorenz. If I roll in the HEXFRED, I prefer a brighter output tube, such as the Fivre 6BX7.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Did somebody say that older Siemens versions of the C3g with embossed letters were made by Lorenz?



Someone might have said that, but it wasn't me. Rather, I would say that older embossed C3g were in fact manufactured by the company whose name is on the tube.


----------



## dibias

Is there any glenn studio otl left to buy?


----------



## UntilThen

dibias said:


> Is there any glenn studio otl left to buy?



It's custom made. You order it from Glenn. Message or talk to him here. 

There is always Glenn Studio OTL amp to buy and going by the fans here, there will be more and more Glenn OTL amps.


----------



## UntilThen

It's here... adapters from China. 

Works beautifully and I'm excited by what I hear.


----------



## UntilThen

Including the EL3N / EL8 to c3g adapters.

I've not heard EL3N in Glenn OTL amp before. Only in Elise and Euforia but what a difference it is in Glenn OTL amp. What I hear puts a broad grin on my face. I could not stop smiling. Must be the combination with 6 x 6bx7gt because I don't remember EL3N being this clear and details galore. The tone.... love at first hearing.

This pair of EL3N is burnt in from before (I've spent lots of hours with it on Elise) and I remove the red paint. 

Well I've not drawn any conclusions yet on which I like most - EL11, EL13, EL3N, EL8. I think I will just enjoy listening to music with these tubes for a while...


----------



## UntilThen

Finally EL11s with 6bx7gt. Now this is noice ! I really think that it sounded even more precise in the c3g slots. Strange one year after I got the Glenn OTL, I'm still as fascinated with it as day one. The tone is so good .... especially with these tubes.

Love the EL11, love the EL13 (both EL11 and EL13 very quiet), love the EL3N but there is a very soft hum during change of songs but that didn't bother me because I simply love the tone. Haven't heard the EL8 yet. Still yet to arrive.

Now I'll get in touch with the adapter maker from Bulgaria. It's time to get nice adapters, seeing that it works perfectly in the c3g slots.


----------



## whirlwind

*Happy Thanksgiving to all  *


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Including the EL3N / EL8 to c3g adapters.
> 
> I've not heard EL3N in Glenn OTL amp before. Only in Elise and Euforia but what a difference it is in Glenn OTL amp. What I hear puts a broad grin on my face. I could not stop smiling. Must be the combination with 6 x 6bx7gt because I don't remember EL3N being this clear and details galore. The tone.... love at first hearing.
> 
> ...



Well done. Again! Thanks. : )
Great to hear the sound via the C3g sockets is as good or better.

Now, THAT sounds like the first impression I had of the EL3N in the GOTL. Beautiful tube.
Could never choose between EL8 and EL3N, they are different, both fantastic to my ear. 
Very happy and fortunate to have both. Not to mention the incredibly reasonable prices.
My thanks to the good folks who resurrected the EL3N. 

Saw some TFK production numbers for EL13 in documents archived with radiomuseum. 
Not a lot, only 100K versus 1.2M for another tube like EL11. EL13 only made in Ulm, EL11 in both Berlin and Ulm.
Almost all of the production for EL13 was 1950-52, just a few hundred in 1953-54.
That TFK production document was conveniently linked in the Philips Red Series article I posted previously.
No idea of production numbers for the EL8, but seem to be more easily available from a few German eBay sellers.

Looks like you will enjoy the next few months sorting through these great tubes!


----------



## rnros

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Looks like you will enjoy the next few months sorting through these great tubes!



You're right. I'll be spending a lot of time with these tubes in the next few months. Even roll in the EL12N as drivers .... just for Mordy. Very very hard hitting. You want slam, you have it. 

The EL** family of tubes all have their own signature tone but they share a family resemblance in how they sound.


----------



## UntilThen

Never would I have thought that Glenn in putting in the c3g slots would open up the amp to the world of pentodes as strapped triodes. I just love the OTL amp a whole lot more now.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Never would I have thought that Glenn in putting in the c3g slots would open up the amp to the world of pentodes as strapped triodes. I just love the OTL amp a whole lot more now.



Pretty cool amp, isn't it    and built to last a lifetime!


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Never would I have thought that Glenn in putting in the c3g slots would open up the amp to the world of pentodes as strapped triodes. I just love the OTL amp a whole lot more now.


Hey, don't forget whose idea is that.


----------



## lukeap69

Happy Thanksgiving Joe and to all our friends in the US of A.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Allow me to elaborate a bit. I already own a very warm,bass heavy headphone(Atticus) and while the mids,highs,staging,and imaging are quite different between the two,the midbass,for me,is too similar to the Atticus to warrant a purchase. The Auteur is very different,and thats what I want.
> 
> To my ears and in a very rudimentary way the Verite sounds like the Atticus and Auteur had a love child. I think the Verite is a fantastic sounding headphone,and on many songs it is truly mindblowing. I just would prefer the midbass to be less intrusive on certain songs.




Understandable.
Eventually I will be getting an open ZMF headphone...just not sure what yet.

Have the Ori & Atticus.....I am totally addicted to the Ori's overall bass, and especially the sub bass


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Including the EL3N / EL8 to c3g adapters.
> 
> I've not heard EL3N in Glenn OTL amp before. Only in Elise and Euforia but what a difference it is in Glenn OTL amp. What I hear puts a broad grin on my face. I could not stop smiling. Must be the combination with 6 x 6bx7gt because I don't remember EL3N being this clear and details galore. The tone.... love at first hearing.
> 
> ...



Nice, UT!!

Sure look a lot nicer in the C3g sockets!


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Allow me to elaborate a bit. I already own a very warm,bass heavy headphone(Atticus) and while the mids,highs,staging,and imaging are quite different between the two,the midbass,for me,is too similar to the Atticus to warrant a purchase. The Auteur is very different,and thats what I want.
> 
> To my ears and in a very rudimentary way the Verite sounds like the Atticus and Auteur had a love child. I think the Verite is a fantastic sounding headphone,and on many songs it is truly mindblowing. I just would prefer the midbass to be less intrusive on certain songs.




Thanks for the quick review.



Happy Thanksgiving to all!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Thanksgiving everyone
Can smell the food cooking already.


----------



## Monsterzero (Nov 22, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> Understandable.
> Eventually I will be getting an open ZMF headphone...just not sure what yet.
> 
> Have the Ori & Atticus.....I am totally addicted to the Ori's overall bass, and especially the sub bass



I havent heard the Ori,but I used to own the Blackwood. TBH Im not a fan of that driver,but thats just me.

If I had to break it down in simple terms,both the Verite and Auteur are detailed and offer their own unique ability to get way into the music. Great placement and 3D imaging.
Where they differ is the Auteur is airy and neutral w/o being dull nor bass light. The first set of songs I tried the Auteur on was some older rock music and the bass wasnt thumping like im used to,so my initial impression was okay these are a bit bass light,but then when I tried some psy trance the slam coming from the Auteur startled me with its impact and force.

On the other hand,the Verite is quite warm but with all the aspects in place of the Auteur. The bass however isnt subtle. Its omni-present,at least with tubes. Think slightly less midbass than the Atticus,but a lot more sub bass. 
I think I actually prefer the cleaner,less romantic presentation of solid state for the Verite that I get from my old receivers. On the GLM2 the bass all but goes into neutral form,but I didnt like the overall sound from it...kinda dull. I would like to see what a HEXFRED does with the Verite,but @2359glenn forgot to send me one.

So in simple speak-If you want a neutral-ish revealing,clean,open but not boring sound you probably would prefer the Auteur.
If you prefer warm yet still revealing and bass in spades you'd prolly enjoy the Verite.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Happy Thanksgiving to all the USA peeps!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Deyan is shipping my EL8 to C3g adaptors today:

 

Oh Happy Day 

.


----------



## Monsterzero (Nov 22, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Did you try the 13D1 driver with the Verite?



OK,

13D1  C3G+the two power tubes you included with the amp+a 5CU4 is the best combo thus far for the Verite. The bass is brought down to an unobtrusive state without it sounding gutted. I broke my own rule of only rolling one tube at a time,so not sure if the driver or power tube change is having more of an impact. Being Thanksgiving and all I will be busy for a good chunk of the day,but will try to keep these power tubes in place and see how my other drivers sound.

EDIT: The TS RP wasnt that great.

Now im really confused as to which I open back ZMF I prefer.

EDIT: The C3G is a huge leap ahead vs. the 13D1 w/ the 5CU4....better detail,staging and tight impact.

I will roll the 6BX7s back in and try 4 instead of a six pack,and report back.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> OK,
> 
> 13D1  C3G+the two power tubes you included with the amp+a 5CU4 is the best combo thus far for the Verite. The bass is brought down to an unobtrusive state without it sounding gutted. I broke my own rule of only rolling one tube at a time,so not sure if the driver or power tube change is having more of an impact. Being Thanksgiving and all I will be busy for a good chunk of the day,but will try to keep these power tubes in place and see how my other drivers sound.
> 
> ...



Cool
You can try putting 1 tube back to original at a time to see what one fixed the problem.
The C3g is a great tube for detail that is why I use it for the driver in the 300B amp.

Let me know how C3g and 6BX7s sound.
The Russian 6H13 output tubes I gave with the amp are pretty good sounding tubes.


----------



## Monsterzero

I know the six pack of 6BX7+C3Gs sound spectacular with the Auteurs,but too much bass for the Verite. Perhaps only 4 instead of six will be the goldilock zone. 

Zach is going to strangle me,but now im considering selling my Atticus and getting the Verite and the Auteur :/


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> You can try putting 1 tube back to original at a time to see what one fixed the problem.



Is it safe to roll with C3G+5CU4+ 2 or 4 6BX7s instead of six? Same question for the Mullard GZ32?


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I know the six pack of 6BX7+C3Gs sound spectacular with the Auteurs,but too much bass for the Verite. Perhaps only 4 instead of six will be the goldilock zone.
> 
> Zach is going to strangle me,but now im considering selling my Atticus and getting the Verite and the Auteur :/



Why would he strangle you if you are going to buy 2 sets of headphones. I guess you are liking the Verite with the right tube combo.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Why would he strangle you if you are going to buy 2 sets of headphones. I guess you are liking the Verite with the right tube combo.



Cuz Ive sent him like 1000 PMs recently...ok maybe thats a slight exaggeration 

Can you comment on my above post?




Monsterzero said:


> Is it safe to roll with C3G+5CU4+ 2 or 4 6BX7s instead of six? Same question for the Mullard GZ32?


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Is it safe to roll with C3G+5CU4+ 2 or 4 6BX7s instead of six? Same question for the Mullard GZ32?



Only two 6BX7 is not a good idea. It is just too far out of spec. However, four 6BX7 is perfectly fine with all the standard rectifier tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Is it safe to roll with C3G+5CU4+ 2 or 4 6BX7s instead of six? Same question for the Mullard GZ32?



I wouldn't use just 2 6BX7s will be putting a straine on them. The rectifier don't really matter using 6BX7s just use what sounds best.
The rectifier changes the sound the least changing tubes.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Only two 6BX7 is not a good idea. It is just too far out of spec. However, four 6BX7 is perfectly fine with all the standard rectifier tubes.





2359glenn said:


> I wouldn't use just 2 6BX7s will be putting a straine on them. The rectifier don't really matter using 6BX7s just use what sounds best.
> The rectifier changes the sound the least changing tubes.



Thanks guys.


----------



## Monsterzero

Even 4 6BX7s brings too much bass back into the equation.

Can anyone recommend some power tubes that dont cost a fortune? Tight bass,excellent imaging and holographic imaging is priority.


----------



## mordy

Is it possible that this Standard Telephone and Cable Ltd (STC) tube  could be a substitute for the C3g? It has a different pin-out (can't find spec sheet with pin-out but I seem to remember that the pinout is different); the 5A-512M:





I think that STC later was called Brimar, so chances are that this is a good sounding tube that could possibly be a substitute for the C3g if a suitable adapter could be found. (Just thinking aloud....)
These tubes are not expensive if you can find them. It draws 0.47A compared to the C3g with 0.37A current draw.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Even 4 6BX7s brings too much bass back into the equation.
> 
> Can anyone recommend some power tubes that dont cost a fortune? Tight bass,excellent imaging and holographic imaging is priority.


Try some RCA 6080 tubes from the early 60's:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-RC...=item48b80a17f2:g:qw8AAOSwD9dbbhuU:rk:28:pf:0
Make a low ball offer of less than $15 for the pair if you are interested. 
Very nice mid bass.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Try some RCA 6080 tubes from the early 60's:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-RC...=item48b80a17f2:g:qw8AAOSwD9dbbhuU:rk:28:pf:0
> Make a low ball offer of less than $15 for the pair if you are interested.
> Very nice mid bass.



Done. Thank you.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Even 4 6BX7s brings too much bass back into the equation.
> 
> Can anyone recommend some power tubes that dont cost a fortune? Tight bass,excellent imaging and holographic imaging is priority.



Before you give up on 6BX7, I would like to remind you that GE, RCA, Sylvania, Tung-Sol, Fivre and Toshiba do not all sound the same....


----------



## Monsterzero

Yep,I recall reading that before in this thread. Unfortunately for me though I dont have the funds to hunt down singles or pairs of the various 6BX7s,try them out,and see if theyre noisy and then go buy more until I have a good sounding 4 or 6 pack. As it is im looking at upwards of a lot of cash for the Verite and Auteur and one of Zachs upgraded OCC cables.

Perhaps down the road I can afford to track down some good sounding non GE 6BX7s,but for now I will run the Russians and the 6080s and see how it goes.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Hey, don't forget whose idea is that.



Asking the question at the right time is important so kudos to you. Although many of us thought that making an adapter for the c3g base is difficult, it's the adapter makers who once again make it possible. Thanks to Mrs Xu for ever being so obliging with all our requests.


----------



## Hansotek

Happy Thanksgiving dudes! 

Holy moley, I’m like 600 posts behind in here! Hope everyone is having a great holiday.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Is it possible that this Standard Telephone and Cable Ltd (STC) tube  could be a substitute for the C3g? It has a different pin-out (can't find spec sheet with pin-out but I seem to remember that the pinout is different); the 5A-512M:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/144/5/5A-152M.pdf
http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/short/054/1/170.pdf
STC was the parent company of Brimar (until it wasn't anymore).


----------



## attmci (Nov 22, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> I havent heard the Ori,but I used to own the Blackwood. TBH Im not a fan of that driver,but thats just me.
> 
> If I had to break it down in simple terms,both the Verite and Auteur are detailed and offer their own unique ability to get way into the music. Great placement and 3D imaging.
> Where they differ is the Auteur is airy and neutral w/o being dull nor bass light. The first set of songs I tried the Auteur on was some older rock music and the bass wasnt thumping like im used to,so my initial impression was okay these are a bit bass light,but then when I tried some psy trance the slam coming from the Auteur startled me with its impact and force.
> ...


Nice summary.

BTY for anyone who is looking for a new pair of Zack's headphone:

Ori--Planar phone--from $899
Verite--Dynamics--just introduced--$2199 on sale
Auteur--Dynamics--$1599-1899








































































I don't think the tube rolling will change how a headphone sounds like your goal. So sorry, no comment.


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/144/5/5A-152M.pdf
> http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/short/054/1/170.pdf
> STC was the parent company of Brimar (until it wasn't anymore).


Hi Oskari,
Thanks for finding the information. It appears to me the the 5A-512M (tongue twister) could be a substitute for the C3g because it is called a Coaxial Repeater Pentode and the C3g tubes were used as repeater tubes for transatlantic telephone cables.
The pinout is indeed different.
I am getting a little confused because Radiomuseum shows yet another C3g with a missing 5th pin, although all my C3g tubes have 8 pins.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_c3g_newi.html
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_c3g.html
It looks like the C3g tubes with serial numbers under 10,000 have 7 pins, and the ones with serial numbers above 10,000 are the ones we are using. I have tubes with serial numbers around 25,000-35,000 and also 350,000 so I should be safe.


----------



## 2359glenn

Pin 5 is hooked to pin 7 in the tube.
I hope the person making the adapters hook the cathode to both of these pins. I use both of them sometimes I use pin 5 ans some times I use pin 7.
Never thought it mattered I just used the pin with the shortest connection..
Never thought adapters would be used in these sockets.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Allow me to elaborate a bit. I already own a very warm,bass heavy headphone(Atticus) and while the mids,highs,staging,and imaging are quite different between the two,the midbass,for me,is too similar to the Atticus to warrant a purchase. The Auteur is very different,and thats what I want.
> 
> To my ears and in a very rudimentary way the Verite sounds like the Atticus and Auteur had a love child. I think the Verite is a fantastic sounding headphone,and on many songs it is truly mindblowing. I just would prefer the midbass to be less intrusive on certain songs.


Sounds like the Verite would be more to my liking. I'll have to try and find a pair to listen to next year.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Even 4 6BX7s brings too much bass back into the equation.
> 
> Can anyone recommend some power tubes that dont cost a fortune? Tight bass,excellent imaging and holographic imaging is priority.



Try the Super 7.

One 6sn7 as driver and 6 x 6sn7 as power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

I’m not a bass head but I have never felt Sylvania 6sn7w with 6 x 6bx7 gives me too much bass with Eikon or Atticus.

It’s tight bass and impactful but never too much.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Too much bass! Would be an interesting problem to have!  I am always looking for MORE on high impedance SENN's 

.


----------



## Monsterzero

You really do need to get an HD250.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Pin 5 is hooked to pin 7 in the tube.
> I hope the person making the adapters hook the cathode to both of these pins. I use both of them sometimes I use pin 5 ans some times I use pin 7.
> Never thought it mattered I just used the pin with the shortest connection..
> Never thought adapters would be used in these sockets.



Good to know Glenn...appreciate this information.

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> You really do need to get an HD250.



Love my 'phones...but "too much bass" is not generally on the radar.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Love my 'phones...but "too much bass" is not generally on the radar.



It doesnt have "too much" bass. Think LCD-2 sub bass and tighter slam than the HD650,not to mention the great treble extension,better imaging and soundstage. The only spot where the HD650 beats the HD250 is the mids,but its def no slouch in that department either.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Asking the question at the right time is important so kudos to you. Although many of us thought that making an adapter for the c3g base is difficult, it's the adapter makers who once again make it possible. Thanks to Mrs Xu for ever being so obliging with all our requests.



Hahaha. I'm just kidding Matt. I am glad that you have pursued this with Mrs Xuling and that we found another adapter maker in Bulgaria. My Darna is limited in terms of driver as she does not have socket for 6SN7. Now I will have change to hear other drivers beside C3g. My adapters will be built next week.


----------



## lukeap69

This too much problem is an interesting one. I thought quite a few people wish for more bass and here we are asking to cut some of it... 

Have you tried the 'cheap' 6AS7 tubes that Glenn usually includes in the OTL amp? I thought that the 6AS7 tubes have 'lesser' bass but wider sound and more midrange that the 6BL7/6BX7 tubes that is why I preferred them when using my HD650. The GEC 6AS7 and to some effect the 5998 closed the gap a bit. All, of course, is IMO and YMMV. I guess it's time to roll tubes more, the 5998 have been sitting in my Darna for many months now.


----------



## Monsterzero (Nov 23, 2018)

I have those tubes that Glenn included in my amp currently,and im telling you,the Verite is slammin my head at the moment,but in a controlled,epic way. The 6BX7s were just too much for me on some songs. The deal with the Verite is that it has some pretty spectacular 3D imaging,almost like its coming at you from in front of your face and feeds in at an angle into your head. Its hard to describe,but its damn sweet. With 6BX7s the bass,on some songs,was,to my ears bouncing off the cup and coming back in and impeding on that 3D effect.

IMO if youre going to grab the Verite,and I highly suggest you do,have some bright/neutral tubes on hand for this beast,cuz its a bass monster even with these Russian tubes.

EDIT: The Verite comes with two sets of pads,Universe and Verite. My comments are with the Universe pads in place. The Verite pads lessen the bass pretty significantly and bring more detail and treble into the mix,but it never sounds sibilant. The only thing I dont like about the Verite pads is for some reason the 3D imaging is lessened to an extent. That being said,I was still getting too much bass even with the Verite pads on w/ the 6BX7s. YMMV.

For the record im buying both the Verite and the Auteur. They sound quite a bit different,but share a lot of the same qualities without being redundant.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Hahaha. I'm just kidding Matt. I am glad that you have pursued this with Mrs Xuling and that we found another adapter maker in Bulgaria. My Darna is limited in terms of driver as she does not have socket for 6SN7. Now I will have change to hear other drivers beside C3g. My adapters will be built next week.



Your Glenn OTL amp only has c3g as input so you don't get any variations. The only time I use c3g with 6bx7s quite extensively is when I first got the amp.  Thereafter I much prefer all my other drivers in the 6sn7 slot.

Now EL11, EL13 and EL3N with 6bx7s is what moves me. It's the start of the weekend so I will be spending a lot of time with these dynamites.


----------



## felix3650

Monsterzero said:


> Zach is going to strangle me,but now im considering selling my Atticus and getting the Verite and the Auteur :/



No that's not the case. If it was I would be hanging by a tree right now 



Monsterzero said:


> Yep,I recall reading that before in this thread. Unfortunately for me though I dont have the funds to hunt down singles or pairs of the various 6BX7s,try them out,and see if theyre noisy and then go buy more until I have a good sounding 4 or 6 pack. As it is im looking at upwards of a lot of cash for the Verite and Auteur and one of Zachs upgraded OCC cables.
> 
> Perhaps down the road I can afford to track down some good sounding non GE 6BX7s,but for now I will run the Russians and the 6080s and see how it goes.



If you're interested in the 2K I can give you mine at an interesting price


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Now EL11, EL13 and EL3N with 6bx7s is what moves me. It's the start of the weekend so I will be spending a lot of time with these dynamites.



This gave me hope! 

I have already ordered the adapters. I will search for cheap EL11 and EL13 whilst you are doing the weekend extensive testing.  

Enjoy the dynamites!


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> Your Glenn OTL amp only has c3g as input so you don't get any variations. The only time I use c3g with 6bx7s quite extensively is when I first got the amp.  Thereafter I much prefer all my other drivers in the 6sn7 slot.
> 
> Now EL11, EL13 and EL3N with 6bx7s is what moves me. It's the start of the weekend so I will be spending a lot of time with these dynamites.


I'm getting mine with 6SN7, C3g and EL3N sockets. Talk about going crazy...lol
Can't wait on your final impressions between the EL family members


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> I'm getting mine with 6SN7, C3g and EL3N sockets. Talk about going crazy...lol
> Can't wait on your final impressions between the EL family members



6SN7, C3G and EL3N sockets? How many driver sockets does your amp have? 

I worry about you Felix. I think you've gone off the edge.   Should be interesting though.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Pin 5 is hooked to pin 7 in the tube.
> I hope the person making the adapters hook the cathode to both of these pins. I use both of them sometimes I use pin 5 ans some times I use pin 7.
> Never thought it mattered I just used the pin with the shortest connection..
> Never thought adapters would be used in these sockets.



There seems to be a hook up between pin 5 and 7 on this EL3N to c3g adapter. See the blue wire connecting 5 and 7.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> 6SN7, C3G and EL3N sockets? How many driver sockets does your amp have?
> 
> I worry about you Felix. I think you've gone off the edge.   Should be interesting though.



I say that would be the most versatile Glenn OTL amp ever. I mean look at how many combinations (permutations/probability, whatever) one can do with this amp. My OTL amp was named after a local superhero character in my home country. I guess Felix amp can be called the AVENGERS!


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> 6SN7, C3G and EL3N sockets? How many driver sockets does your amp have?
> 
> I worry about you Felix. I think you've gone off the edge.   Should be interesting though.



It's thanks to you guys that I've switched to the dark side (and glad I did)! I started with the A&S Kenzie but then Glenn's OTL can do so much more...I guess my Auteur will be quite happy
I plan on using only certain combos though. The 6x 6BX7GT will take care of the output. Rolling would be limited mostly on driver tubes.



lukeap69 said:


> I say that would be the most versatile Glenn OTL amp ever. I mean look at how many combinations (permutations/probability, whatever) one can do with this amp. My OTL amp was named after a local superhero character in my home country. I guess Felix amp can be called the AVENGERS!



I'll think of a name once I have it with me. Combined with my Holo Cyan it would make for a great versatile setup. The Cyan has a very capable balanced headphone output too for those times I want a different flavor other than tubes


----------



## felix3650

Oh BTW what RCA cables do you suggest to hook the Cyan and GOTL together?


----------



## lukeap69

felix3650 said:


> It's thanks to you guys that I've switched to the dark side (and glad I did)! I started with the A&S Kenzie but then Glenn's OTL can do so much more...I guess my Auteur will be quite happy
> I plan on using only certain combos though. The 6x 6BX7GT will take care of the output. Rolling would be limited mostly on driver tubes.
> 
> 
> ...


Nice. My DAC (and I believe @whirlwind 's DAC as well) is also made by Holo. The big brother of the Cyan, the Spring. Lovely DAC. Didn't feel the itch to upgrade after purchasing it.


----------



## felix3650

lukeap69 said:


> Nice. My DAC (and I believe @whirlwind 's DAC as well) is also made by Holo. The big brother of the Cyan, the Spring. Lovely DAC. Didn't feel the itch to upgrade after purchasing it.



Yeah. You guys have the Spring Level 3 (a bit out of my budget) but the Cyan should be around 80% there. It has both OS and NOS modes which does change the sound a bit (so more variables to play when hooked to the GOTL )


----------



## lukeap69

felix3650 said:


> Yeah. You guys have the Spring Level 3 (a bit out of my budget) but the Cyan should be around 80% there. It has both OS and NOS modes which does change the sound a bit (so more variables to play when hooked to the GOTL )


Oh I'm sure the Cyan sounds wonderful as well. You can't go wrong with the Holo-Glenn OTL combo. Especially with the super hyper mega OTL amp Glenn will be building for you, sky will be the limit!


----------



## whirlwind

felix3650 said:


> Oh BTW what RCA cables do you suggest to hook the Cyan and GOTL together?



You won't need balanced cables for the Cyan and your amp.
Sort of a budget question.....but even some mono price cables will do the job.

No need to worry the Cyan and GOTL will produce wonderful music.
Congrats on getting all of your new gear


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> It doesnt have "too much" bass. Think LCD-2 sub bass and tighter slam than the HD650,not to mention the great treble extension,better imaging and soundstage. The only spot where the HD650 beats the HD250 is the mids,but its def no slouch in that department either.



I prefer a very old pair of HD580 over the HD650's.  580's are flat, 650's have a very V shaped response.  They were made for SS amplification, imo....

I see no such animal as HD250?


----------



## mordy

The HD250 has been out of production for many years.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 23, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> I have those tubes that Glenn included in my amp currently,and im telling you,the Verite is slammin my head at the moment,but in a controlled,epic way. The 6BX7s were just too much for me on some songs. The deal with the Verite is that it has some pretty spectacular 3D imaging,almost like its coming at you from in front of your face and feeds in at an angle into your head. Its hard to describe,but its damn sweet. With 6BX7s the bass,on some songs,was,to my ears bouncing off the cup and coming back in and impeding on that 3D effect.
> 
> IMO if youre going to grab the Verite,and I highly suggest you do,have some bright/neutral tubes on hand for this beast,cuz its a bass monster even with these Russian tubes.
> 
> ...



The good news is the OTL will accommodate whatever sonic response you might need.  Plenty of bright tubes combinations avail for your Verite's...

Sonic Nirvana WILL be achieved.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> The HD250 has been out of production for many years.



Ah, I see some info about them now.  Closed back...


----------



## leftside

Lot's of good talk regarding bass. Not sure if this helps, but I've been running GEC 6AS7G, Cossor 53-KU and Mullard ECC35 and this is my favorite combo so far in the WA22 with my LCD-3's. I was running TS 5998, Sylvania metal bass 6SN7 and Mullard metal bass GZ34 for a couple of weeks, but the former combo is much better. Sound is much fuller with better bass without losing any detail. I don't usually hear such big differences with tubes.

Also tried the ECC35 with TS 5998, but this was too much gain and things were slightly noisy. ECC32/TS5998 was great if I remember rightly. I've yet to hear a 6SN7 tube that sounds as good as any of the Mullard/Triotron ECC31 - ECC35 tubes, but maybe that's just with the WA22.


----------



## Monsterzero

felix3650 said:


> No that's not the case. If it was I would be hanging by a tree right now
> 
> 
> 
> If you're interested in the 2K I can give you mine at an interesting price



Yes, Zach has shown incredible patience over the years with his customers. Top notch guy. 



JazzVinyl said:


> Ah, I see some info about them now.  Closed back...



Shameless plug:

Check my YouTube channel for my review of the HD250s.


----------



## UntilThen

Putting the EL11s through with various power tubes. With a quad of these russian 6H13C, it's a nice variation from 6 x 6bx7gt. With a very nice tube bloom and bounce.

I very much prefer the EL11s over the Mullard ECC35 now. EL11s sounds so natural and relax. I can relate to Phanta and rnros with their description of EL8. Musical cues floating in their own space and clearly delineated from each other. You can pin point instruments. Superb imaging.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

UntilThen said:


> Putting the EL11s through with various power tubes. With a quad of these russian 6H13C, it's a nice variation from 6 x 6bx7gt. With a very nice tube bloom and bounce.
> 
> I very much prefer the EL11s over the Mullard ECC35 now. EL11s sounds so natural and relax. I can relate to Phanta and rnros with their description of EL8. Musical cues floating in their own space and clearly delineated from each other. You can pin point instruments. Superb imaging.



When do you expect your Stratus to arrive? I am looking forward to your impressions in relation to the Glenn!


----------



## rnros

felix3650 said:


> I'm getting mine with 6SN7, C3g and EL3N sockets. Talk about going crazy...lol
> Can't wait on your final impressions between the EL family members



HaHa, not crazy... Brilliant! 
It was only a matter of time until the GOTL Ultra Eleven emerged from Glenn Studio. 
Congrats on being the first. You will be in GOTL heaven for years to come.
In addition to the Amazing Sound, it's also notable that you can purchase all three pairs of the EL3N, EL8, and EL11 for the price of one pair of C3g.
Which is additional justification for the cost of the Lundahl transformer... This will be a Lundahl GOTL, yes?
(And of course, another $100 saved on adapters. : ))

LOL, I've been eye-balling the deck of my GOTL wondering if I would have to sacrifice a couple of 6BX7 sockets to have EL3N sockets installed.


----------



## UntilThen

Liu Junyuan said:


> When do you expect your Stratus to arrive? I am looking forward to your impressions in relation to the Glenn!



Hey LJ how are you.

Stratus arrive in June 2019. As you can see, I am too preoccupied here to think about it. 

Should be an interesting comparison.


----------



## UntilThen (Nov 24, 2018)

I’m in ein_sof adapter queue now due to hot demands from here.

I conveyed to him that the cathode needs to be tied to pin 5 and 7. He said he has taken that into account.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Putting the EL11s through with various power tubes. With a quad of these russian 6H13C, it's a nice variation from 6 x 6bx7gt. With a very nice tube bloom and bounce.
> 
> I very much prefer the EL11s over the Mullard ECC35 now. EL11s sounds so natural and relax. I can relate to Phanta and rnros with their description of EL8. Musical cues floating in their own space and clearly delineated from each other. You can pin point instruments. Superb imaging.





UntilThen said:


> I’m in ein_sof adapter queue now due to hot demands from here.
> 
> I conveyed to him that the cathode needs to be tied to pin 5 and 7. He said he has taken that into account.



Looking forward to trying the EL11s with these adapters. Thanks for the update.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Putting the EL11s through with various power tubes. With a quad of these russian 6H13C, it's a nice variation from 6 x 6bx7gt. With a very nice tube bloom and bounce.



A number of companies manufactured the EL11... Which ones are you currently infatuated with?


----------



## UntilThen

My best pair of EL11s are the Telefunkens... hence I love them the most. The EL13s are also Telefunkens with their original boxes. EL13 and EL11 sounds very similar. I am quite surprised by that. I also happen to like the EL11s or EL13s paired with 6 x 6bx7gt the most. This is the best fusion to my ears.  It's so good I spend a lot of time listening today. 

This is a picture the Telefunken EL11.


----------



## gibosi

Do you also have Valvo EL11?


----------



## UntilThen

This is a picture of all my steel EL tubes. The top row are all the EL11s. L to R - Philips Miniwatt, RFT, Telefunken. I haven't compared them sonically. They should all sound good. 

I don't have Valvo. Can't afford to collect them all.


----------



## UntilThen

I found a picture of a power amp using EL8.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I found a picture of a power amp using EL8.



That amp has to be quite low power under 1 watt with the EL8 as outputs.
They do make a good driver though.


----------



## UntilThen

This looks like a headphone amp using 4 EL8.


----------



## 2359glenn

You know I would have never thought of using any of these tubes as a driver. This was until I tried the EL3N that sounds wonderful 
as well as the EL8.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> This looks like a headphone amp using 4 EL8.



Those tubes don't look like they have a side pin base


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> This is a picture of all my steel EL tubes. The top row are all the EL11s. L to R - Philips Miniwatt, RFT, Telefunken. I haven't compared them sonically. They should all sound good.
> 
> I don't have Valvo. Can't afford to collect them all.



Beautiful collection of EL11’s UT...

RadioMuseum says EL11 is EL3N in a different base....

And EL8 is EL3N with 1/2 as much output...

Sounds like EL’s tubes will sound similar (which I believe you have said too).


----------



## 2359glenn

I should build a amp using these tubes but it would have to be a transformer coupled amp like the EL3N.
They are not suited or use in a OTL circuit.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> I should build a amp using these tubes but it would have to be a transformer coupled amp like the EL3N.
> They are not suited or use in a OTL circuit.



EL11 or all of the EL series are not suited to OTL?

.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> EL11 or all of the EL series are not suited to OTL?
> 
> .



Not for the output tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Putting the EL11s through with various power tubes. With a quad of these russian 6H13C, it's a nice variation from 6 x 6bx7gt. With a very nice tube bloom and bounce.
> 
> I very much prefer the EL11s over the Mullard ECC35 now. EL11s sounds so natural and relax. I can relate to Phanta and rnros with their description of EL8. Musical cues floating in their own space and clearly delineated from each other. You can pin point instruments. Superb imaging.



For you, UT, does "musical cues" equate to "micro details"?


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Not for the output tubes.



Understand...okay as drivers...


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 24, 2018)

1633 as driver

2x Russian Ribbed Plate Fotons
2x Tung Sol 6SN7's
And
2x Baldwin (Sylvania) 6SN7
As Powers

SENN HP650 loves this Tube Compliment...

Talk about micro detail...listening to New Age artist "Steve Tibbetts" his new album "Life Of..."
It is superbly recorded and preformed...

Since we know that I normally like a V shaped tube compliment and the flat response SENN HP580 love a V shaped tube compliment....

This must be a Flat tube compliment, and the V shaped SENN HP650's dig this combo...





  


.


----------



## gibosi

And as usual, I continue to wander way off the beaten path... lol 

For some time, I have really been digging the embossed Lorenz C3g, Tung-Sol 6BX7 and Telefunken WE56, But recently, the treble response has begun to seem just a bit off. So I replaced the Telefunken with a Valvo AZ12 (Hamburg,Germany) and I think this is a better combination. But again, as usual, my ears and my gear, YMMV.


----------



## lukeap69

Appreciate if anybody can PM the email ID of Deyan. Thanks.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> And as usual, I continue to wander way off the beaten path... lol
> 
> For some time, I have really been digging the embossed Lorenz C3g, Tung-Sol 6BX7 and Telefunken WE56, But recently, the treble response has begun to seem just a bit off. So I replaced the Telefunken with a Valvo AZ12 (Hamburg,Germany) and I think this is a better combination. But again, as usual, my ears and my gear, YMMV.



Looking good, gibosi...

The Lorenz C3g - darker than Siemens'...now a step darker,  yet..? Or you increased it a touch?


----------



## gibosi

To my ears, all my Telefunken rectifiers are way too bright with the Siemens, but just about right with the Lorenz. Similarly, to my ears, all my Valvo's are also way to bright with the Siemens, but they are just a tad less bright than the Telefunkens. So this was a small tweak, and so far, it seems like a winner.


----------



## Redmetal1897 (Nov 24, 2018)

I switched pretty quickly to the 6 x 6BX7 combo once I got my GOTL. However recently switched the power tubes to the 2 x 6H13 that Glenn originally provided. Have to say, based on the genres I listen to(mainly metal), and my personal preferences, I think I like this combo more compared to the 6x 6BX7 combo. Though it might be less technically correct (at least the way I perceive it), it just provides this 'wall of sound effect' that I LOVE. I its like the soundscape becomes larger and more all encompassing, I think mainly because it boosts the sub bass and bass in general. The 6x6BX7 is much more neutral and probably 'cleaner', but to me it also sounds more restrained vs. the 6H13. I also find the combination airier vs. the 6BX7

 Using the 3DG4 rectifier and a 13D1 driver. Running the Blackwood Auteur's using the Mojo's lineout.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> For you, UT, does "musical cues" equate to "micro details"?



It is micro details but more than that. It's when the sax sounds on your left channel, vocals in the middle, drums to the back of vocals and the piano comes in on the right. You will hear these instruments in very clear details, at times in succession and at times concurrently. That's my interpretation of it.


----------



## UntilThen

Daanish said:


> I switched pretty quickly to the 6 x 6XB7 combo once I got my GOTL. However recently switched the power tubes to the 2 x 6H13 that Glenn originally provided. Have to say, based on the genres I listen to(mainly metal), and my personal preferences, I think I like this combo more compared to the 6x 6XB7 combo. Though it might be less technically correct (at least the way I perceive it), it just provides this 'wall of sound effect' that I LOVE. I its like the soundscape becomes larger and more all encompassing, I think mainly because it boosts the sub bass and bass in general. The 6x6XB7 is much more neutral and probably 'cleaner', but to me it also sounds more restrained vs. the 6H13. I also find the combination airier vs. the 6XB7
> 
> Using the 3DG4 rectifier and a 13D1 driver. Running the Blackwood Auteur's using the Mojo's lineout.



You have describe the differences between 6h13c and 6bx7 well there. 6h13c and 6as7 have a more tubey sound, that is fuller, more bloom. 6bx7 is more dynamic, tighter and more incisive to my ears. Which you prefer is definitely up to individuals. Music you listen to, your other gear will all play a part in your preference.

Also over a period of time, your preference can change.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Beautiful collection of EL11’s UT...
> 
> RadioMuseum says EL11 is EL3N in a different base....
> 
> ...



They do sound similar but there is a clear distinction. EL3N is warmer. EL11 and EL13 sounded very similar with the EL13 being a fraction less forward. EL11 and EL13 are also clearer, with better treble extensions.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Daanish said:


> I switched pretty quickly to the 6 x 6XB7 combo once I got my GOTL. However recently switched the power tubes to the 2 x 6H13 that Glenn originally provided. Have to say, based on the genres I listen to(mainly metal), and my personal preferences, I think I like this combo more compared to the 6x 6XB7 combo. Though it might be less technically correct (at least the way I perceive it), it just provides this 'wall of sound effect' that I LOVE. I its like the soundscape becomes larger and more all encompassing, I think mainly because it boosts the sub bass and bass in general. The 6x6XB7 is much more neutral and probably 'cleaner', but to me it also sounds more restrained vs. the 6H13. I also find the combination airier vs. the 6XB7
> 
> Using the 3DG4 rectifier and a 13D1 driver. Running the Blackwood Auteur's using the Mojo's lineout.



You should try the 6BL7's...they are warmer, with a lot more "guts" in the bass region than 6BX7...

They are also easier to come by than 6BX7's...

Cheers..


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> They do sound similar but there is a clear distinction. EL3N is warmer. EL11 and EL13 sounded very similar with the EL13 being a fraction less forward. EL11 and EL13 are also clearer, with better treble extensions.



Appreciate this comparison, UT.


----------



## felix3650

rnros said:


> HaHa, not crazy... Brilliant!
> It was only a matter of time until the GOTL Ultra Eleven emerged from Glenn Studio.
> Congrats on being the first. You will be in GOTL heaven for years to come.
> In addition to the Amazing Sound, it's also notable that you can purchase all three pairs of the EL3N, EL8, and EL11 for the price of one pair of C3g.
> ...



Thanks for the kind words Ros. Yeah Lundahl loaded GOTL 



UntilThen said:


> This looks like a headphone amp using 4 EL8.



That looks like the HifiMan ShangriLa-Jr electrostatic amp which uses a quartet of 6SN7
http://hifiman.com/products/detail/288
Waaaaay overpriced IMHO (8000$)



UntilThen said:


> They do sound similar but there is a clear distinction. EL3N is warmer. EL11 and EL13 sounded very similar with the EL13 being a fraction less forward. EL11 and EL13 are also clearer, with better treble extensions.


Noted!!


----------



## felix3650

JazzVinyl said:


> You should try the 6BL7's...they are warmer, with a lot more "guts" in the bass region than 6BX7...
> 
> They are also easier to come by than 6BX7's...
> 
> Cheers..


Hmmm interesting


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have been in the Analog Den most of the day...spinning vinyl, listening to my 250 WPC Halfer into my DIY speakers w / dual 10's /  dome mids / Vifa XT-25's...

And wow, I am blown away 

What's "digital"?
What's a "tube"?
What are "headphones"?


  

Long live:  Rahassan Roland Kirk, Kitaro, John Klemmer, Herbie Hancock, Hubert Laws, Dave Grusin, Dave Valentin, Diane Schuur, Joe Zawinul, etc...


.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Do you also have Valvo EL11?


Hi gibosi,
I have the Valvo, as well as TFK, Philips, RFT and Loewe-Opta EL11 tubes. In my old amp the TFK sounded the best. The adapters for the GOTL haven't arrived yet, but when they come I will compare the different makes.


----------



## mordy

felix3650 said:


> Thanks for the kind words Ros. Yeah Lundahl loaded GOTL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Shangri La shoulder type 6SN7 tubes - are they Psvane tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

Looks like Psvane.


----------



## UntilThen

I am trying out the Mullard EL32 from Langrex. At 4 pounds a tube it’s cheap. Let’s see how they fair against the EL11.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I am trying out the Mullard EL32 from Langrex. At 4 pounds a tube it’s cheap. Let’s see how they fair against the EL11.


Hi UT,
I am really curious about this because I am waiting for a shipment of the same tubes. 
H1 discovered the EL32 tubes but claims that they need a very long burn-in period, maybe because they only draw 0.2A.
But he has since switched to EL38 tubes which he claims are superior sounding.
I cannot keep up with all the developments......
Meanwhile I am perfectly happy toe-tapping with a NU 6C8G and a pair of Cet 6336B tubes. But my collection of EL3N, EL6 (you forgot about those), EL11, EL12, EL12N is waiting to fire up......
I was able to buy one EL8 (for the price of an EL32) and am looking for a deal on a second one.
But the EL38 seems to be too expensive for my taste.
And then there is the EL54.....
It never ends.....Just think if you would have settled down with the ECC35 and 6x6BX7 - you would never have tried the EL11 and you wouldn't know what you were missing lol.


----------



## UntilThen

EL32 were used in car audio amps half a century ago so it might have some potentials.

EL38 is quite a monster. It’s as powerful as a EL34. I won’t be touching it.

EL13 is really good sounding so I expect EL8 to perform too.

I did use EL11 with 6336b yesterday and it’s good but I prefer 6bx7 as powers.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> EL32 were used in car audio amps half a century ago so it might have some potentials.
> 
> EL38 is quite a monster. It’s as powerful as a EL34. I won’t be touching it.
> 
> ...


Hi UT,
Here is another interesting tube for car radios, the ELL1. But what is a double pentode? Can this be used as a single driver?
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ell1.html


----------



## Redmetal1897

JazzVinyl said:


> You should try the 6BL7's...they are warmer, with a lot more "guts" in the bass region than 6BX7...
> 
> They are also easier to come by than 6BX7's...
> 
> Cheers..



I will keep an eye out, thanks! What is the right number of 6BL7 tubes?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Daanish said:


> I will keep an eye out, thanks! What is the right number of 6BL7 tubes?



Get six...you can always subtract a couple, but doubt you will want to.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Here is another interesting tube for car radios, the ELL1. But what is a double pentode? Can this be used as a single driver?
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ell1.html



Well cool!! Look at that! 

With the right adapter, you could theoretically use it in place of the SN7, similar to the dual triode FDD20...


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Here is another interesting tube for car radios, the ELL1. But what is a double pentode? Can this be used as a single driver?
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ell1.html



You have to ask Glenn whether that is possible. If I did not already have a very nice pair of EL11 and EL13, I would be thinking of this Visseaux EL33. These are identical to the EL11 and EL3N but with different base.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6M6G-EL...=item2133289285:g:L44AAOSwzw5aFG~D:rk:21:pf:0

Or these Visseaux 6M6G
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6M6G-6M...=item2143fbd204:g:UncAAOSwKsdbUHkZ:rk:23:pf:0

or how about these Mullard EL33
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EL33-tu...h=item3f9cff48e6:g:uwIAAOSwoIlaviPN:rk:2:pf:0


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Just think if you would have settled down with the ECC35 and 6x6BX7 - you would never have tried the EL11 and you wouldn't know what you were missing lol.



ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7 is the pinnacle of tube goodness in GOTL. The other driver I hold in very high regard is my Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. If I didn't hear the EL11 or EL13 in GOTL, it wouldn't be paradise lost. However once having tasted these EL tubes, I find it hard to go back to my previous jewels.

I'm listening to EL13s with 6 x 6BL7gt/gta mixture. JV is right about the 6BL7 being more seismic bass onslaught. It's a moving experience and these EL13s just gets better with each passing hour.


----------



## UntilThen

In the midst of enjoying the EL13 and 6 x 6BL7gt, my mind wander back to the pentode that started it all - the c3g. I have to roll it in again to get a baseline for what I am hearing. So in goes the Siemens c3g and it's wow, just wow...  This has to be the fastest driver I've ever heard and killer dynamics. 

I'll just enjoy this for a while before returning to the calmer waters of EL11 / EL13.


----------



## felix3650

mordy said:


> The Shangri La shoulder type 6SN7 tubes - are they Psvane tubes?





UntilThen said:


> Looks like Psvane.



Yes those most probably are Psvane tube. They only state _"Made using the finest hand matched 6SN7N Vacuum Tubes currently available in the world.Tubes at the core of the SHANGRI-LA jr amplifier function so closely to the output offers a warm and sumptuous sonic quality the finest Tube amplifiers are known for"_


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7 is the pinnacle of tube goodness in GOTL. The other driver I hold in very high regard is my Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. If I didn't hear the EL11 or EL13 in GOTL, it wouldn't be paradise lost. However once having tasted these EL tubes, I find it hard to go back to my previous jewels.
> 
> I'm listening to EL13s with 6 x 6BL7gt/gta mixture. JV is right about the 6BL7 being more seismic bass onslaught. It's a moving experience and these EL13s just gets better with each passing hour.





UntilThen said:


> In the midst of enjoying the EL13 and 6 x 6BL7gt, my mind wander back to the pentode that started it all - the c3g. I have to roll it in again to get a baseline for what I am hearing. So in goes the Siemens c3g and it's wow, just wow...  This has to be the fastest driver I've ever heard and killer dynamics.
> 
> I'll just enjoy this for a while before returning to the calmer waters of EL11 / EL13.



More pics with combos to add to my dedicated GOTL folder 
I'll have to get some of these tubes and send them Glenn's way when the time comes to make them sound their best in the EL sockets.
I've also been thinking of getting adapters done between the different EL sockets since they're a lot more similar than different.


----------



## 2359glenn (Nov 25, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Well cool!! Look at that!
> 
> With the right adapter, you could theoretically use it in place of the SN7, similar to the dual triode FDD20...



At first I thought that this tube ELL1 would be neat to try with a 6SN7 adapter.
But it won't work the two screen grids are tied together to be hooked to B+ . So it cannot be made into two individual triodes.
To bad.


----------



## JazzVinyl

All these new flavors of EL's being discovered...makes me glad that I will be restricted to my EL8 pair. 

The thing about Glenn's OTL...it makes an awful lot of tubes sound really fantastic. I can't afford endless EL and adaptor spending.

((( meditation position )))
Ommmmmmmm....be happy with the many, you already own....


----------



## 2359glenn

Possibly a ELL80/6HU8 will work. In the past I used this tube as a headphone amp.
But had problems with them heater to cathode shorts. Don't know why only a couple of volts potential between the heater and cathode.
And they were expensive so I gave up on them. Just figured poor construction quality.


----------



## leftside (Nov 25, 2018)

Another good discussion with the ELxx tubes. A lot of them have different bases, so not sure how they will work with the GOTL?

EL11: requires EL11 to C3g adapter
EL3N: requires EL3N to 6SN7 adapter?

EL6/EL12 seem to be the same tube, but with different bases. Have double the power of EL11/EL3N/EL33  (could be interesting)
EL11/EL3N/EL33 seem to be the same tubes, but with different bases.
EL8/EL13 seem to be the same tube, but with different bases. Have half the power of the EL11/EL3N/EL33.

EL34 is the successor to EL6/EL12. This is a famous tube, but has a totally different (octal) base to the EL6/E12. Not sure if this can be used?

EL38 has a top contact cap, so not sure how this can be used.


I think I'll stick with the EL11 (and EL11 to C3g adapter), though would be interested to see if the EL34 could be used. @2359glenn can the EL34 be used in the GOTL? Maybe with an adapter?

All info taken from radiomuseum:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el34.html


----------



## leftside (Nov 25, 2018)

gibosi said:


> And as usual, I continue to wander way off the beaten path... lol
> 
> For some time, I have really been digging the embossed Lorenz C3g,


I have the embossed Lorenz C3g on order. Will report back later...


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Another good discussion with the ELxx tubes. A lot of them have different bases, so not sure how they will work with the GOTL?
> 
> EL11: requires EL11 to C3g adapter
> EL3N: requires EL3N 6SN7 adapter?
> ...


Hi leftside,
From what I understand, the EL3N needs a dual adapter for two tubes to be used in the 6SN7 socket.
Apparently it will work better in the C3g sockets (then needs two individual EL3N to C3g adapters) because the bias for the C3g tubes is closer to the bias for EL3N than the bias for 6SN7.
It appears to me that the EL38 will need it's own adapter with a cap lead.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Another good discussion with the ELxx tubes. A lot of them have different bases, so not sure how they will work with the GOTL?
> 
> EL11: requires EL11 to C3g adapter
> EL3N: requires EL3N to 6SN7 adapter?
> ...



For the driver or output?


----------



## felix3650

2359glenn said:


> For the driver or output?


He meant as a driver most probably


----------



## leftside (Nov 25, 2018)

@2359glenn  Yes driver


----------



## felix3650

I plan on sticking with these tubes for now:
· 6x 6BX7/6BL7
· Tungsol 12SL7GT BGRP
· Mullard ECC35
· Siemens C3g
· Ken Rad VT-231
· Telefunken EL11
· Philips EL3N
· A couple 12AU7, 12AX7, 12AT7 with adapter

Any ideas on what good 12**7s (the mini ones) are there?


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Another good discussion with the ELxx tubes. A lot of them have different bases, so not sure how they will work with the GOTL?
> 
> EL11: requires EL11 to C3g adapter
> EL3N: requires EL3N to 6SN7 adapter?
> ...



EL8 is same tube as EL3N but 1/2 the amount of output, which appeals to me because the six pack of 6BL7 has so much gain...

Let's say EL8 EL3N EL13 EL11 are all very similar, with varying bases. UT says EL3N is warmer, less treble extension than EL11/EL13, so EL8 at 1/2 the EL3N output, and a warmer/darker tube...also appeals to me.

EL3N/EL8/EL11/EL13 are all single pentode.  Need two to replace the SN7 socket tube...one for L and one for R...

The SN7 socket is for dual triodes...one triode is used for L and the other for the R channel.  



Since it takes two, adapted to C3g sockets makes for smaller adapters...and as Mordy says, bias resistor there more suitable too...

Hope that helps...


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> @2359glenn  Yes driver



You can try it won't heart anything. Have to get more Info before I build our OTL and we see what driver sockets to use.


----------



## JazzVinyl

felix3650 said:


> I plan on sticking with these tubes for now:
> · 6x 6BX7/6BL7
> · Tungsol 12SL7GT BGRP
> · Mullard ECC35
> ...



Suggest you stay with 12AU7 as they have a lower gain factor...

Wide variety of prices, suggest "Baldwin" branded 12AU7's...some made in Japan, some in USA - all sound great and cheap compared to the coveted European brands...

Can spend a LOT on these...so go slow, be careful...be patient.


----------



## felix3650

JazzVinyl said:


> Suggest you stay with 12AU7 as they have a lower gain factor...
> 
> Wide variety of prices, suggest "Baldwin" branded 12AU7's...some made in Japan, some in USA - all sound great and cheap compared to the coveted European brands...
> 
> Can spend a LOT on these...so go slow, be careful...be patient.


Thanks JV! 12AU7 be it then. I remember the Baldwin from our previous conversation 
Will a 6922 Genalex Gold Lion sound good? It's quite a popular one.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> I have the embossed Lorenz C3g on order. Will report back later...



Do you have the Seimens to compare them to? Interested in the differences.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Do you have the Seimens to compare them to? Interested in the differences.


Yes I do. Embossed and regular. Though to be honest I haven't heard any difference with the C3g tubes so far in the 300B amp.


----------



## leftside

@2359glenn Can the EL34 be used in the C3g sockets in the 300B amp with an appropriate adapter? I already have the EL11 ready to go.


----------



## leftside (Nov 25, 2018)

Glenn says this about the 12AT7/12AU7/12AX7 tubes:

"This amp driver circuit is not right for a 12AX7 a 12AU7 or 12AT7 will be OK. No wonder it sounded thin and crappy.
This amp can take so many tubes why a 12AX7?????. A very high impedance tube that should have a plate resistor of at least 100,000 ohms.
A 12AX7 really cannot drive the miller capacitance of the output tubes. In many amps the 12AX7 will drive a 12AU7 or 12AT7 to drive the output tubes."

My favorite 12AT7 tubes in my other amps are the early GEC B309 and GEC A2900. There are many, many different 12AT7 tubes. Brent Jessee provides a good summary:
http://www.audiotubes.com/12at7.htm

My favorite 12AU7 tubes in one of my DACs:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1454#post-14425291

Here's a nice 12AX7... I have a 1954 that I might sell. Basically given up trying to find another.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRA-RARE...WELDED-PLATES-SQUARE-GETTER-1953/202505566720

Info that I've learnt from my friend: The Mullard 12AX7's go up a LOT in price depending upon the year. 1953 (rarer than hens teeth), 1954 (as rare as hens teeth), etc to the "relatively" common 1957. Why such the huge difference in prices? Rarity, different construction and sometimes different factories and therefore meant to be a different sound. In 1957 Fisher started using them in their equipment, so much more common. This is what makes tube collecting such a fun rat hole. Even the same brand and same make of tube can be different from one year to the next..... and which is why you might see such big differences in prices of tubes which to most people will seem like the same tube (but they are not...).

And the Gold Lion gold pin new production are good.


----------



## 2359glenn (Nov 25, 2018)

I finally switched the 5pin sockets to 8 pin and switched filament voltage from 2.5 to 6.3. Going from #27s to GEC  L63
So the amp is all GEC now the beauty o these tubes they are perfectly quiet. I had a hard time finding quiet 27s.
I went nuts with filtering and run the filaments ob DC just to have noisy tubes.
If you can find a pair of L63s cheep get them they sound great. You will need a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter though.
Pic of the amp had to clean allot of dust of o it as it was buried in the back of a cabinet just had to turn on the switch.
Went crazy building this amp in 2006 all wires carrying audio are DH labs 18 ga 99.999% pure silver. And I used
giant Solan output coupling capacitors. Would never do this today craziness.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> I finally switched the 5pin sockets to 8 pin and switched filament voltage from 2.5 to 6.3. Going from #27s to GEC  L63
> So the amp is all GEC now the beauty o these tubes they are perfectly quiet. I had a hard time finding quiet 27s.
> I went nuts with filtering and run the filaments ob DC just to have noisy tubes.
> If you can find a pair of L63s cheep get them they sound great. You will need a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter though.
> ...




Sure is beautiful Glenn!! 

I bet it sounds as beautiful as it looks!!

Congrats on the conversion!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

I built my 3-way Speakers in 2006 and bought “extreme” caps for the crossovers...

Pretty sure a lot of the benefit of the costly caps...are in my head.  

But I have used them a lot, and loved them much...cant believe It has been 12 years since the build....

Sheesh, where does the time go?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Enjoying the original 1973 LP:


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> I built my 3-way Speakers in 2006 and bought “extreme” caps for the crossovers...
> 
> Pretty sure a lot of the benefit of the costly caps...are in my head.
> 
> ...



Good capacitors usually make a difference. But silver wire I must have been nuts at the time. Really wire makes little or no difference.
How would I know make 2 amps and A-B them?


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Good capacitors usually make a difference. But silver wire I must have been nuts at the time. Really wire makes little or no difference.
> How would I know make 2 amps and A-B them?


Hi Glenn,
Is this the amp that runs on 240V DC?


----------



## 2359glenn

No but the DC B+ voltage is 250 to the output tubes 240 to the drivers.


----------



## lukeap69 (Nov 26, 2018)

These are the adapters Deyan built for me. He will be shipping these today.


----------



## mordy (Nov 25, 2018)

lukeap69 said:


> These are the adapters Deyan built for me. He will be shipping these today.


I have the same ones coming - sitting in Customs right now. I am sure that you realize that they are made in Siemens Yellow lol.


----------



## lukeap69

mordy said:


> I have the same ones coming - sitting in Customs right now.



How fast is the shipping?


----------



## mordy

lukeap69 said:


> How fast is the shipping?



Tracking details


Nov 23, 2018
09:30am

Processed Through Facility
ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)

Nov 16, 2018
01:01am

Processed Through Facility
SOFIA LETTERS

Nov 14, 2018
08:37am PST

Tracking number provided


----------



## lukeap69

mordy said:


> Tracking details
> 
> 
> Nov 23, 2018
> ...



Not bad. Thanks.


----------



## leftside

Just a note for 300B amp owners. I spoke to Glenn, and the Exx to C3g adapters and tubes cannot be used in the C3g sockets. Just the OTL.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> These are the adapters Deyan built for me. He will be shipping these today.



Looking forward to your impressions. What EL tubes do you have?


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Looking forward to your impressions. What EL tubes do you have?



None yet. just ordered a pair of EL8 from ebay. I am hunting for cheap EL11's and/or EL13's.


----------



## 2359glenn (Nov 26, 2018)

leftside said:


> Just a note for 300B amp owners. I spoke to Glenn, and the Exx to C3g adapters and tubes cannot be used in the C3g sockets. Just the OTL.



Except for some of the older ones those I took 6.3 volts off the center tap in the transformer. Then I changed it to make it quieter
And run them on DC to keep any 50Hz or 60Hz away from the C3g.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lukeap69 said:


> These are the adapters Deyan built for me. He will be shipping these today.



I plan to do away with the giant yellow labels...


----------



## lukeap69

JazzVinyl said:


> I plan to do away with the giant yellow labels...



Ha! I know you like painted instead.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 26, 2018)

The yellow labels are too large...

Also thinking the EL8’s will be absolutely perfect for “driver triplet”...


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I plan to do away with the giant yellow labels...


Shrink wrap or paint? Or just the original black?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Shrink wrap or paint? Or just the original black?



Definitely not shirnkwrap...

Wont know until they get here and I can checkout what the bodies are made of...

.


----------



## UntilThen

A few minutes of listening to music before work. EL13 sound simply magical with it's ability to separate instruments giving the song a 3 dimensionality I've not heard before in other drivers. EL11 sounds the same. The 2 are very similar tonally.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> A few minutes of listening to music before work. EL13 sound simply magical with it's ability to separate instruments giving the song a 3 dimensionality I've not heard before in other drivers. EL11 sounds the same. The 2 are very similar tonally.


So EL3N is a bit darker than EL11. EL11 is similar to EL13. That leaves EL8 sounding similar to the EL3N.
EL8 ~ EL3N and EL11 ~ EL13 correct me if I'm wrong. I think I'll restric myself to only the EL3N & EL11 then since they seem to be easier to source


----------



## gibosi

felix3650 said:


> So EL3N is a bit darker than EL11. EL11 is similar to EL13. That leaves EL8 sounding similar to the EL3N.
> EL8 ~ EL3N and EL11 ~ EL13 correct me if I'm wrong. I think I'll restric myself to only the EL3N & EL11 then since they seem to be easier to source



In my experience, it is not this simple. Tubes manufactured in different factories by different companies sound different. So for example, EL11 manufactured by Valvo, Telefunken, Tesla, RFT, Tungsram will likely all sound different.

And therefore, when making comparisons such as these, it is necessary to know the factory. Most, if not all Philips EL3N were manufactured in a factory located in Vienna, Austria (WIRAG). In my experience, WIRAG tubes are in fact warmer and darker than tubes manufactured by Telefunken. But that does not mean that all EL3N are darker than EL11. In each case, it depends on the factory.

If EL11 and EL13 were manufactured in the same factory, for example, Telefunken, it is very likely than will sound very similar. If EL3N and EL8 were manufactured in different factories, they will likely sound different.

Therefore, in each case, I urge those of you posting your impressions to identify the factory. And it is important to understand that in many cases, the brand does not accurately indicate the factory. So it will often be necessary to do a little research. But you are not alone. Many here can help you.

Cheers


----------



## leftside (Nov 27, 2018)

gibosi said:


> Therefore, in each case, I urge those of you posting your impressions to identify the factory. And it is important to understand that in many cases, the brand does not accurately indicate the factory. So it will often be necessary to do a little research. But you are not alone. Many here can help you.
> 
> Cheers


Said something similar on the previous page. Year of manufacture is also important, as the factory could change materials/construction from one year to another.  For example the GZ34 metal base:


----------



## lukeap69

I will probably not post any impression anymore. Life is too short to get into that kind of details. I will just rely in @UntilThen 's brilliant impressions.


----------



## gibosi

If most here don't care about such details, then perhaps I should stop wasting my time...


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> If most here don't care about such details, then perhaps I should stop wasting my time...



I think that's only me Ken. I'm sure others do care. Don't get me wrong, I just don't have time to look into all those stuff if I will post an impression. Please continue providing details and ignore me.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> If most here don't care about such details, then perhaps I should stop wasting my time...


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Well done. Again! Thanks. : )
> Great to hear the sound via the C3g sockets is as good or better.
> 
> Now, THAT sounds like the first impression I had of the EL3N in the GOTL. Beautiful tube.
> ...



There isn't much info on EL13 and EL11 but Ros manage to provide some info here... which is interesting. No mention of brands by the way. I have only seen EL13 in Telefunken brand. Even amongst Telefunken EL11, you have 2 different shapes. The slim version and the fat bottle version. I had the slim version a long time ago but I could not really recall how that sounded as one of the tube had a bad hum.

EL13 was introduced in 1949. That's about the time EL8 was introduced too. This is going by info from radiomuseum. 

I have not heard the EL8 as my tubes have not arrived. I doubt it would be similar to EL3N but I would make no assumption until I hear it. The only people who have heard both EL8 and EL3N are Glenn and Ros.... and Ros did gave a very detailed impression of EL3N and EL8.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> I will probably not post any impression anymore. Life is too short to get into that kind of details. I will just rely in @UntilThen 's brilliant impressions.



Oh you are going to give your impressions.  As someone who only had c3g as drivers in GOTL, I want to know what your impressions are with EL8 and EL11, EL13 when you get them.

Btw Deyan is really quick with his adapter work. He told me he should have mine finished by today. I ordered both EL3N and EL11 adapters.


----------



## UntilThen

If as Ros says there were about 100,000 EL13 produced then there must be some around but I hardly see any on ebay. I have been lucky to get a NOS pair. It has the numbers 467 mc00 on one box and on the other box 443 mc00. 

So new and well preserved since the 50s. The original box with the paper wrapping are still as new.


----------



## UntilThen

It's in German. I don't know what it says.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Btw Deyan is really quick with his adapter work. He told me he should have mine finished by today. I ordered both EL3N and EL11 adapters.



Does Deyan sleep? I am impressed with how he communicates progress. Such a nice guy I reckon.


----------



## UntilThen

This is the EL11 box. What I post above is the EL13 box. It's all in German.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Does Deyan sleep? I am impressed with how he communicates progress. Such a nice guy I reckon.



He is very nice indeed. Communicates every detail. This is what he says...

And the first update is I have the bodies for the adapters machined and painted. I've noticed that people are wondering what are they made of. So the material is extruded polyamide 6 ( PA6 )


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> There isn't much info on EL13 and EL11 but Ros manage to provide some info here... which is interesting. No mention of brands by the way. I have only seen EL13 in Telefunken brand. Even amongst Telefunken EL11, you have 2 different shapes. The slim version and the fat bottle version. I had the slim version a long time ago but I could not really recall how that sounded as one of the tube had a bad hum.
> 
> EL13 was introduced in 1949. That's about the time EL8 was introduced too. This is going by info from radiomuseum.
> 
> I have not heard the EL8 as my tubes have not arrived. I doubt it would be similar to EL3N but I would make no assumption until I hear it. The only people who have heard both EL8 and EL3N are Glenn and Ros.... and Ros did gave a very detailed impression of EL3N and EL8.



Hi UT, those are Telefunken (TFK) production numbers. 

Here is the discussion on that production log:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/rs15_rs152.html#7
You can use Google or Chrome to translate the discussion. 

If you want to view the production numbers for the EL11, EL12, EL13, open the first part, Fertigung der Werke Teil 1.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/forumdata/upload/tfk_fertigung_teil_1.pdf
Scroll down to the 18th page of 90.

Source article for that first link and EL8 information posted here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1472#post-14448678


----------



## felix3650

gibosi said:


> In my experience, it is not this simple. Tubes manufactured in different factories by different companies sound different. So for example, EL11 manufactured by Valvo, Telefunken, Tesla, RFT, Tungsram will likely all sound different.
> 
> And therefore, when making comparisons such as these, it is necessary to know the factory. Most, if not all Philips EL3N were manufactured in a factory located in Vienna, Austria (WIRAG). In my experience, WIRAG tubes are in fact warmer and darker than tubes manufactured by Telefunken. But that does not mean that all EL3N are darker than EL11. In each case, it depends on the factory.
> 
> ...


Ok I have still much to learn being a newcomer in the world of tubes for audio applications.
We used to diagnose and study old signal amplifiers (some of which had tube stages) and that's all the experience I have. 
Thanks gibosi (Ken). I'll keep it in mind when assuming next time (and here I thought I could get it that simple...lol)


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Ros. Will go through in my free time. 

Deyan is about to send out my adapters. Looking forward to receiving it, even though the adapters from Mrs Xu are working very well.... just not pretty.


----------



## leftside

I have a couple of nice 1949 rectangular cup getter Philips FDD20's. Are you guys using a FDD20 to 6SN7/12SN7 adapter in the GOTL? I presume a FDD20 to C3g adapter(s) could also be used?


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> I have a couple of nice 1949 rectangular cup getter Philips FDD20's. Are you guys using a FDD20 to 6SN7/12SN7 adapter in the GOTL? I presume a FDD20 to C3g adapter(s) could also be used?
> 
> These tubes could be used - I think that UT and JV have tried them in the GOTL.
> I have one, but the base was modified for use in the Feliks Audio Euforia and for external power. and I don't know if this modified octal base will work in the GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I have a couple of nice 1949 rectangular cup getter Philips FDD20's. Are you guys using a FDD20 to 6SN7/12SN7 adapter in the GOTL? I presume a FDD20 to C3g adapter(s) could also be used?



You use the fdd20 with an adapter in the 6sn7 slot. This tube is not a pentode so you don’t use it in the c3g slot.


----------



## gibosi (Nov 27, 2018)

Yes, in the GOTL, I use an adapter, side-contact base to octal, set the driver voltage to 12 volts and go. It might be possible to run these via the C3g sockets, but likely this would require very custom-made adapters, and I personally doubt it would be worth the time and expense. Trying to insert a double triode into a single triode-strapped pentode socket can't be a good idea....


----------



## leftside

Thanks guys. Totally makes sense to use the 6SN7 slot (set to 12v) and not the C3g slots.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> I have a couple of nice 1949 rectangular cup getter Philips FDD20's. Are you guys using a FDD20 to 6SN7/12SN7 adapter in the GOTL? I presume a FDD20 to C3g adapter(s) could also be used?



I used FDD20->12SN7 adapter.  

Guess C3g could be adapted to...would need two and the adapters for EL8 to C3g would not work for FDD20 - very different pinout.  

.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 27, 2018)

leftside said:


> I have a couple of nice 1949 rectangular cup getter Philips FDD20's. Are you guys using a FDD20 to 6SN7/12SN7 adapter in the GOTL? I presume a FDD20 to C3g adapter(s) could also be used?



Hey LS...

These have the SAME NUMBER and DATE on the Tax Stamp as a pair I have, unwrapped!

I am amazed by that!!!

You say 1949...sure they are not 1943 instead?

.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Hey LS...
> 
> These have the SAME NUMBER and DATE on the Tax Stamp as a pair I have, unwrapped!
> 
> ...


Whoops - my bad. Yes 1943. These are probably the oldest tubes I have. Bizarre you have the same number and date....


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Whoops - my bad. Yes 1943. These are probably the oldest tubes I have. Bizarre you have the same number and date....



Yes and have seen more for sale on German Ebay with the same number and Feb 10, 1943!!

I am thinking the entire day's output of tubes in the plant in Italy was "liberated" - or they were bought, warehoused, and surfaced to the market, 64 years later...

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello Mordy...

Your FDD20 will work, but you would still have to heat it externally....


----------



## leftside

Question from Deyan: @2359glenn  "I was wondering if the suppressor grid is connected either to the anode or the cathode".


----------



## 2359glenn

suppressor grid to cathode. That is how it is in the C3g


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes and have seen more for sale on German Ebay with the same number and Feb 10, 1943!!
> 
> I am thinking the entire day's output of tubes in the plant in Italy was "liberated" - or they were bought, warehoused, and surfaced to the market, 64 years later...
> 
> .


Hi JV,
You mean 75 year old tubes, right?


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> You mean 75 year old tubes, right?



Thinking about this, I’m quite surprised that these tubes have lasted for this long and are still working more than half a century later. Pretty cool.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> Thinking about this, I’m quite surprised that these tubes have lasted for this long and are still working more than half a century later. Pretty cool.



It sure is, I often look at the really old tubes in my amps and think..."how do tubes this old sound this damn good"

It is pretty cool indeed.


----------



## Monsterzero

@2359glenn 

Good luck tomorrow.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> @2359glenn
> 
> Good luck tomorrow.



Glenn’s going to be up to his neck in orders with all of the Verite and Aeolus reviews coming out. If he’s not already there.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> You mean 75 year old tubes, right?



Goodness! Yes!!

75 year old FDD20’s!!

Thats crazy!!

And still freeing electrons from random atoms!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Glenn’s going to be up to his neck in orders with all of the Verite and Aeolus reviews coming out. If he’s not already there.



Swamped with amp builds.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


>




 

See!!! Same number and date!!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 28, 2018)

Due to the large gain from FDD20, I like them best with 6AS7G, 6080 or 5998, as powers...



They are a superb driver.   Do an excellent job of freeing electrons, some 75 years after being manufactured...(almost 76 years, now)...


.


----------



## leftside

5998 have high gain....


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> 5998 have high gain....



Yes, a gain of 5 isn't it? Higher than 6080 or 6AS7G at 2x...for some reason, my FDD20's suffer from noises when using the six pack of BX/BL's...


----------



## leftside

I get slight noise with 2 ECC35 if I use them with 2 5998 in the WA22. They are fine with the GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> I get slight noise with 2 ECC35 if I use them with 2 5998 in the WA22. They are fine with the GEC 6AS7G.



Tube proverb: If they make it, it hums.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Tube proverb: If they make it, it hums.


Not in this case  Humming because they are in pain (too much gain). 

Generally, if I have tubes that hum I try the following:
1) Use some very fine grit sandpaper to clean the pins
2) Try with a different combo of other tubes
3) Try running for a few hours. Perhaps they need to settle down. Perhaps they haven't been used for 75 years....

If they still hum after that, then they head for the trash.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Not in this case  Humming because they are in pain (too much gain).
> 
> Generally, if I have tubes that hum I try the following:
> 1) Use some very fine grit sandpaper to clean the pins
> ...


Hi leftside,
Let me know when you are throwing something out - was able to tame hum with high temperature silicon tape tightly wrapped around the glass.....
(Makes the tube look like a TS BGRP lol)


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I finally switched the 5pin sockets to 8 pin and switched filament voltage from 2.5 to 6.3. Going from #27s to GEC  L63
> So the amp is all GEC now the beauty o these tubes they are perfectly quiet. I had a hard time finding quiet 27s.
> I went nuts with filtering and run the filaments ob DC just to have noisy tubes.
> If you can find a pair of L63s cheep get them they sound great. You will need a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter though.
> ...


Glenn what is the single Jupiter PIO cap that is sitting between the Solen caps for?  I'm assuming the Solens are the output coupling caps so is the Jupiter some kind of a bypass?


----------



## UntilThen

25 May 1942


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Glenn what is the single Jupiter PIO cap that is sitting between the Solen caps for?  I'm assuming the Solens are the output coupling caps so is the Jupiter some kind of a bypass?



The Jupiter is coupling between the L63 and 6AS7 the other one is under the two blue bypass capacitors.


----------



## gibosi

Yes, those 75 year-old FDD20 are pretty old, but if you want old, try some 90 year-old #27's. As Glenn points out, it's hard to find quiet pairs, but when you do, they sound glorious.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Yes, those 75 year-old FDD20 are pretty old, but if you want old, try some 90 year-old #27's. As Glenn points out, it's hard to find quiet pairs, but when you do, they sound glorious.



And lovely, too, Ken!!


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Yes, those 75 year-old FDD20 are pretty old, but if you want old, try some 90 year-old #27's. As Glenn points out, it's hard to find quiet pairs, but when you do, they sound glorious.



The drivers in my 300B amp are 90 year old #10s pic of them are my Avatar. Been using them for 12 years now every day no problem or noise.


----------



## mordy

Today my adapters arrived from seller ein_sof (Deyan Vasev) in Bulgaria. Tested the C3g/EL11 and C3g/EL3N adapters for functionality.
These are high quality handmade adapters that work with reassuring clicks and good fit. Putting in the side contact tubes is very easy and smooth, unlike the frustrating Chinese adapters. The C3g bases snap in positively and these large adapters look very sturdy. Also did not encounter any untoward noise.
There was some discussion about the wiring of the C3g adapters, but Deyan assured me that everything was done properly and the suppressor grid is wired to the anode. (The question he posed pertained to some very unusual and different types of tubes that have the suppressor grid used as a secondary control grid or as extra area for the anode.)
These C3g adapters work just fine and are a pleasure to use.

Also ordered some other adapters and socket savers. 
The first picture shows a pair of tubular TFK EL11 and the second picture two EL6 tubes (same side contact pinout as the EL3N), supported by a pair of Cetron 6336B tubes.
The third picture shows a small dual triode - the 5687. I was impressed by this tube in the Little Dot amp and wanted to try it in the GOTL. Very inexpensive tube - maybe because it has a unique pinout and only shares it with a few other tubes.










I know that I am going to busy trying out a bunch of stuff in the GOTL.....


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Today my adapters arrived from seller ein_sof (Deyan Vasev) in Bulgaria. Tested the C3g/EL11 and C3g/EL3N adapters for functionality.
> These are high quality handmade adapters that work with reassuring clicks and good fit. Putting in the side contact tubes is very easy and smooth, unlike the frustrating Chinese adapters. The C3g bases snap in positively and these large adapters look very sturdy. Also did not encounter any untoward noise.
> There was some discussion about the wiring of the C3g adapters, but Deyan assured me that everything was done properly and the suppressor grid is wired to the anode. (The question he posed pertained to some very unusual and different types of tubes that have the suppressor grid used as a secondary control grid or as extra area for the anode.)
> These C3g adapters work just fine and are a pleasure to use.
> ...



How do they sound in the C3g sockets???


----------



## mordy

Very promising, but I ordered a bunch of stuff and the first priority is to make sure everything works well....
Will start rolling shortly.


----------



## mordy

Hi Glenn,
Put in a well broken in pair of Telefunken EL11 that together is no less than 153 years old - one tube is from 1941 and the second from 1942.
Somehow they seem to run hotter in the C3g slots in the GOTL than I remember in the Feliks Audio Euforia.
The first listening impression that comes to mind is texture; multilayered, voluptuous texture and full bodied sound. 
Magical. Up front and toe tapping sound with precise hard hitting bass. Very engaging; no, extremely engaging.
As the tubes warm up it feels like the Cetrons are cheering on the TFKs to perform better and better. An unusually immersive 3D soundstage. 
This is good....
This pair of TFK EL11 tubes has as much visual appeal as a gray rainy sky (zero tube glow and drab gray coating), but they know how to sing.....



As UT says, I like the tone.
This was just a first impression. My brain needs more time to crystallize out where this combo belongs in the ranks, but so far very special.


----------



## mordy

Just came across this clip - a Korean tourist asks to join a little jazz group playing in the street of Florence, Italy.
You probably have seen it, since almost 12 million people have viewed it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> The Jupiter is coupling between the L63 and 6AS7 the other one is under the two blue bypass capacitors.


Ah, there's a second one under the first.  That makes sense.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Glenn, check your PM.
> 
> Know anything about the Valvo EL8 tube?
> Same pinout as EL3N, 6V/500mA heater, small bottle like the EL2/EL32, but different pentode design, not a revision of those.
> ...



This post from Ros is an important post. Credit to Ros for discovering EL8 for use in GOTL. Get your EL8s now before my impressions comes out...... My pair of EL8 arrive today and they look real small and cute. About the size of a 6BX7. Can tell they are brand new and unused. Real quiet. No noise. Very impressed.

It's even smaller than EL13.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> The first listening impression that comes to mind is texture; multilayered, voluptuous texture and full bodied sound.
> Magical. Up front and toe tapping sound with precise hard hitting bass. Very engaging; no, extremely engaging.



Mordy, I'm glad you like the EL11. I'm still in awe of what I hear but I use 6 x 6bx7gt as power tubes.

You must get yourself a pair of Valvo EL8. A pair doesn't cost that much. Do it. Just do it. Cancel the Christmas turkey. Buy the EL8. 

Here's a bit of Valvo history.
https://www.facebook.com/Bountyhunt...ubes-are-of-excellent-qualit/115331655267601/


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, I'm glad you like the EL11. I'm still in awe of what I hear but I use 6 x 6bx7gt as power tubes.
> 
> You must get yourself a pair of Valvo EL8. A pair doesn't cost that much. Do it. Just do it. Cancel the Christmas turkey. Buy the EL8.
> 
> ...



The EL8 pair I have purchased are also Valvo.  Nice to hear positive feedback from you Matt.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> The EL8 pair I have purchased are also Valvo.  Nice to hear positive feedback from you Matt.



I haven't seen EL8 in other brands besides Valvo. Just realised I bought my pairs of EL13 and EL8 from the same seller in Germany. I was so busy lately I didn't realised that until now. Just had a look at his shop and he has the most incredible range of Philips Red Series and Telefunken / Valvo Gold series NOS tubes.

My EL32 to c3g adapter from Mrs Xu should arrive by Monday but the Mullard EL32 tubes from Langrex is still no where in sight.

I have a hunch that someone is going to experiment with EL34 as drivers in the GOTL.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 30, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> This post from Ros is an important post. Credit to Ros for discovering EL8 for use in GOTL. Get your EL8s now before my impressions comes out...... My pair of EL8 arrive today and they look real small and cute. About the size of a 6BX7. Can tell they are brand new and unused. Real quiet. No noise. Very impressed.
> 
> It's even smaller than EL13.





EL8's are definitely cute....


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> I have a hunch that someone is going to experiment with EL34 as drivers in the GOTL.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> This post from Ros is an important post. Credit to Ros for discovering EL8 for use in GOTL. Get your EL8s now before my impressions comes out...... My pair of EL8 arrive today and they look real small and cute. About the size of a 6BX7. Can tell they are brand new and unused. Real quiet. No noise. Very impressed.
> 
> It's even smaller than EL13.



Less is more in this case. 
Thanks for the kind word. Also the quick first reaction. 
Looking forward to your impressions with the EL8 in the C3g driver's seat.


----------



## Phantaminum

The weekend is here and that means it’s time to settle in, listen to some great music on the Ceasar, and enjoy some fine whiskey.


----------



## capt_wacky

Absolutely beautiful. I have the same cans and can’t wait to hear a GOTL with them. Enjoy your whiskey and your weekend!


----------



## leftside

I had that whisky at a whisky tasting night a couple of weeks ago. Very good.


----------



## Deftone

I can’t find a website to see models and pricing ?


----------



## felix3650

Deftone said:


> I can’t find a website to see models and pricing ?


There isn't any. You need to contact @2359glenn directly.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> The weekend is here and that means it’s time to settle in, listen to some great music on the Ceasar, and enjoy some fine whiskey.



My kind of combo.  Enjoy!


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Phantaminum said:


> The weekend is here and that means it’s time to settle in, listen to some great music on the Ceasar, and enjoy some fine whiskey.



Howdy, would just like to ask what are the rectifier tube options that one can pursue for this amp?  

I've seen 5CU4, GZ32/5V4G and GZ34s mentioned in various posts.  

I've just gotten in line for a GOTL next year, trying to figure out what I should be on the lookout for lol.  

Appreciate any guidance, thanks in advance...


----------



## gibosi (Dec 1, 2018)

UsoppNoKami said:


> Howdy, would just like to ask what are the rectifier tube options that one can pursue for this amp?
> 
> I've seen 5CU4, GZ32/5V4G and GZ34s mentioned in various posts.
> 
> ...



Generally, you can use any rectifier that can provide at least 250 milliamps. You should know that there is considerable confusion regarding the GZ32. Even though the 5V4G is listed as an equivalent, it is not. The GZ32 can provide up to 300 milliamps while the 5V4G can provide at most 175.

Glenn typically provides a 3DG4 with the amp. In addition, 5U4GB (but not the older 5U4G), 5R4G, 5AW4, GZ33, GZ37, 53KU, 596, 1641 and U52 are commonly used. And some of the more well-heeled among us use the Western Electric 422A.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

gibosi said:


> any rectifier that can provide at least 250 milliamps



Noted, will pay attention to the tube data sheets before buying anything.  

Thanks for all the info, much appreciated


----------



## whirlwind

I just plopped in the fuel rod for the nuclear reactor that Glenn sent with my amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I just plopped in the fuel rod for the nuclear reactor that Glenn sent with my amp.



Cool I am using the 5U8C in my old amp. That is the only rectifier that won't blow up charging two 4700uf filter caps.
Can't even use any other rectifier it has the crazy Russian socket.
Crazy using those caps but I wanted total silence was nuts at that time money no object.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Cool I am using the 5U8C in my old amp. That is the only rectifier that won't blow up charging two 4700uf filter caps.
> Can't even use any other rectifier it has the crazy Russian socket.
> Crazy using those caps but I wanted total silence was nuts at that time money no object.



Ha, yep....that is pretty crazy!
It is overkill for the EL3N amp...I like how it towers over the EL3N tubes though.

You marked the pins of the tube and the socket with red so that I could not mess up when installing ...glad you did as the tube will fit in the socket every which way.


----------



## leftside

From Deyan: "Since the 12SN7 has a dual cathode and FDD20 has one cathode for both triodes and we don't know the value of the cathode resistor if i connect the 2 12SN7 cathodes I'm basically halving it's value. So since we are in the dark ill put a switch on the thing so you can choose whichever setting suits you better. This is the only way i can guarantee proper operation. In case you want it in the switch in the up position uses both cathodes so 1/2 cathode resistor in the down position is with one resistor. You can ask Glenn if he uses one resistor in the amp or he uses 2 resistors."

What do you think @2359glenn?

The adapters look  great. And now that the Canadian postal strike is over I should get my adapters in a few weeks.


----------



## 2359glenn

I think that is great. I would say hook it to both cathode resistors. But with the switch you can pick what setting sounds best.


----------



## Phantaminum

leftside said:


> From Deyan: "Since the 12SN7 has a dual cathode and FDD20 has one cathode for both triodes and we don't know the value of the cathode resistor if i connect the 2 12SN7 cathodes I'm basically halving it's value. So since we are in the dark ill put a switch on the thing so you can choose whichever setting suits you better. This is the only way i can guarantee proper operation. In case you want it in the switch in the up position uses both cathodes so 1/2 cathode resistor in the down position is with one resistor. You can ask Glenn if he uses one resistor in the amp or he uses 2 resistors."
> 
> What do you think @2359glenn?
> 
> The adapters look  great. And now that the Canadian postal strike is over I should get my adapters in a few weeks.



That’s a pretty sweet adapter Leftside. Let us know how it sounds.


----------



## UntilThen

Leftside will have lots of tubes and adapters ready for his GOTL. Something to really look forward to.


----------



## gibosi (Dec 1, 2018)

leftside said:


> From Deyan: "Since the 12SN7 has a dual cathode and FDD20 has one cathode for both triodes and we don't know the value of the cathode resistor if i connect the 2 12SN7 cathodes I'm basically halving it's value. So since we are in the dark ill put a switch on the thing so you can choose whichever setting suits you better. This is the only way i can guarantee proper operation. In case you want it in the switch in the up position uses both cathodes so 1/2 cathode resistor in the down position is with one resistor. You can ask Glenn if he uses one resistor in the amp or he uses 2 resistors."
> 
> What do you think @2359glenn?
> 
> The adapters look  great. And now that the Canadian postal strike is over I should get my adapters in a few weeks.



Per the data sheets, the optimal cathode resister for the ECC31 is about one-half that for a 6SN7GT, so the standard 6N7/ECC31 to 6SN7GT adapter, which connects both cathodes together is theoretically best for that tube. However, I don't know if this is the case for the FDD20. Of course, having options is always a good thing and as Glenn suggests, try it both ways and use the one that sounds best to your ears.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hey @mordy - have you compared EL3N to EL11 via C3g sockets?


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Hey @mordy - have you compared EL3N to EL11 via C3g sockets?


Not yet - too much enjoying EL11 and 6336B to change ATM.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Not yet - too much enjoying EL11 and 6336B to change ATM.



I too was enjoying EL8 with 6bx7 so much that I wasn't too keen on swapping tubes but today curiosity got the better of me and I had to listen more attentively to find out the difference.

Firstly between EL8 and EL13.
EL13 is more forceful and vivid. EL8 seems to hit the sweet spot for my ears and gear. Great micro details and yet has a relaxing tone. Both these tubes have a very clear tone. Vocals are sparkling and great definition. Lovely treble without fatigue. EL8 and EL13 are also much much quieter than EL11 and EL3N.

Now we move onto EL11 and EL3N.
These 2 tubes are much denser in texture than the EL8 and EL13. Bass is also weightier. While my initial impressions of EL11 and EL13 are that they sound very similar, today I was able to pick out this differences. As with my earlier posts, EL11 is more extended in the treble frequencies than the EL3N. Don't expect the difference to be night and day though. EL11 and EL3N are more similar than dis-similar. 

That said, such comparisons can be a real pain and takes attentive listening. I'd rather just listen to music with any of these 4 tubes as drivers with 6 x GE 6bx7gt as power tubes. They are all very lovely sounding.

With that I'm back to EL8 and 6 x 6bx7gt and just enjoying it. I've to get more hours on the EL8 and see how it develops. I don't expect it to change too much though. I like it as it is now. 

Note:-

My tubes are

Telefunken EL11
Telefunken EL13
Valvo EL8
Philips Miniwatt EL3N


----------



## whirlwind

EL8 sounds like a wonderful tube UT.


----------



## UntilThen

It is. I wonder how 4 EL8 will sound in your GEL3N. Check with Glenn if the EL8 will work in that amp.


----------



## whirlwind

The words "relaxing tone" and "quiet".....I love those words


----------



## rnros

Good notes, UT. An abundance of good things. Very nice.
Look forward to hearing the Telefunkens.

I did not find the EL8s improving much over the longer term (80 -100hrs), more so becoming solidly consistent.
With several pairs on the test block, I thought that some days did not excite as much, just missing that extra dimension.
After that first 80 hrs or so, they always performed at their best. Always excited to light them up.
My imagination? Maybe, IDK. But I mention it anyway, because with the three pair I use now, all over 100 hrs, they always hit the mark.
Good news is they show their stuff early on.


----------



## UntilThen

It's a relaxing tone but that doesn't mean it's laid back. When the music hits it's crescendo, there's vitality, vigour and sparkle. It's a paradox that it can sound both relaxing and energising.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> It's a relaxing tone but that doesn't mean it's laid back. When the music hits it's crescendo, there's vitality, vigour and sparkle. It's a paradox that it can sound both relaxing and energising.


Then it should pair well with 6x 6BL7 for those who want a bit extra low end.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> It's a relaxing tone but that doesn't mean it's laid back. When the music hits it's crescendo, there's vitality, vigour and sparkle. It's a paradox that it can sound both relaxing and energising.



UT...would you call the EL8 bright or dark ?

By bright and dark I am referring to these definitions of the terms.
*Bright *- A sound that emphasizes the upper midrange/lower treble. Harmonics are strong relative to fundamentals.
*Dark *- A tonal balance that tilts downwards with increasing frequency. Opposite of bright. Weak high frequencies.


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> Then it should pair well with 6x 6BL7 for those who want a bit extra low end.



From my point of view, when you use SIX of 6BX7, you'll get all the bass plus the low ends that you will ever need. 6BL7 has more gain and sounds much louder. As one who won't sit on the fence, I prefer 6BX7 but I respect others preference for 6BL7.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> UT...would you call the EL8 bright or dark ?
> 
> By bright and dark I am referring to these definitions of the terms.
> *Bright *- A sound that emphasizes the upper midrange/lower treble. Harmonics are strong relative to fundamentals.
> *Dark *- A tonal balance that tilts downwards with increasing frequency. Opposite of bright. Weak high frequencies.



EL8 is certainly not dark. By the above definition, then it would be categorised as bright.

I would rather see EL8 as 0.5 on the bright sight of neutral.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> EL8 is certainly not dark. By the above definition, then it would be categorised as bright.
> 
> I would rather see EL8 as 0.5 on the bright sight of neutral.



Thanks much.....sounds great.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Thanks much.....sounds great.



You can use these as drivers in the EL3N amp or all 4 tubes with less power. But the amp has more power then necessary for most phones.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> EL8 is certainly not dark. By the above definition, then it would be categorised as bright.
> 
> I would rather see EL8 as 0.5 on the bright sight of neutral.



Ken says the Valvo “house sound” leans bright.  

My adaptors should be here soon.  Sounds like I will lean towards darker powers with EL8, so expect 6BL7 will better suit me.  

Agree about more gain with BL7, but i just reduce input volume (via the player software) to even things out.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> You can use these as drivers in the EL3N amp or all 4 tubes with less power. But the amp has more power then necessary for most phones.



How is Glenn doing with an all GEC tube compliment?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> You can use these as drivers in the EL3N amp or all 4 tubes with less power. But the amp has more power then necessary for most phones.



Thanks Glenn.

I will just stick with the EL3N tubes then....i like the power and I hate to mess with the harmonic distortion of the amp with the EL8 drivers and EL3N powers.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> How is Glenn doing with an all GEC tube compliment?



So far it sounds wonderful. Have to do more listening and try some US 6J5s.
Just lack time to do much real listening maybe Christmas week.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> So far it sounds wonderful. Have to do more listening and try some US 6J5s.
> Just lack time to do much real listening maybe Christmas week.



RIght, I figured you are busier than a one armed bus driver...building amps


----------



## Phantaminum

I have a question and it's seems silly to me to ask but are you guys running your dual EL8s with the volt switch set to 6.3 or 12.6?


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> I have a question and it's seems silly to me to ask but are you guys running your dual EL8s with the volt switch set to 6.3 or 12.6?



6.3V in the 6SN7 socket.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el8.html


----------



## Phantaminum

Thanks @rnros


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> I have a question and it's seems silly to me to ask but are you guys running your dual EL8s with the volt switch set to 6.3 or 12.6?


 
Yes, they are 6.3 volt tubes.  If adapted to C3g sockets - those always get 6.3 volts, your voltage switcher does not switch the power going to the  c3g sockets.  

I am in a bassy mood...

Have in six pack 6BL7 and my Tung Sol 12SN7 BGRP....

Sounding really good!!

  

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Make way, for:


----------



## JazzVinyl

The general and his army, workin’this trio:


----------



## leftside

Looking forward to trying these July 1951 4 volt rectifiers in the GOTL. The 53-KU are my favorite in other equipment:


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Looking forward to trying these July 1951 4 volt rectifiers in the GOTL. The 53-KU are my favorite in other equipment:



Beautiful tubes, LS...


----------



## leftside

Thanks. Yes those are really nice.

Colomor Electronics is selling them on eBay.


----------



## Phantaminum

leftside said:


> Thanks. Yes those are really nice.
> 
> Colomor Electronics is selling them on eBay.



I've purchased a few tubes from Colomor Electronics. Great seller and haven't an issue with any of their tubes.


----------



## lukeap69

Replaced my pair of TS 5998 with sextet RCA 6BX7 after many months of 5998 exclusive use. 6BX7's are wonderful especially with the HD800 SD. Then rolled the Lorenz C3g in place of Siemens C3g (these were from Glenn.) I don't hear much difference if there is at all. Maybe the EL8's and EL11's sound will be noticeably different than the C3g's. I hope...


----------



## mordy (Dec 3, 2018)

Today I forced myself to pull my pair of TFK EL11 from the GOTL- they just sound wonderful in every aspect. But I have a stash of EL3N and the adapters, so:




First the labels on the tubes: The right one says OK. It is the sole survivor of a quad EL3N tubes that I tried in an amp a couple of years ago (not the GOTL) with three adapters made by a company called Suzier. All three tubes shorted out and shorted out my amp as well. This fourth tube had an adapter made by Mrs Xuling and functioned properly - nothing went wrong.
The left tube has a rattle - I surmise a little piece of glass, and it does not affect the performance.
So how do the Philips WIRAG (Philips factory in Vienna, Austria) EL3N tubes sound in comparison to the TFK EL11?
First of all, they sound very good but a little different. The presentation is  darker, more mellow and laid back and not as forward as the EL11. Everything is there, but softer than the EL11. However, after a couple of hours, and the tubes warming up, the EL3N start to sound closer to the EL11.
Just like the EL11 tubes, the EL3N run much hotter in the GOTL than in my old FA amp.
ATM I prefer the TFK EL11, but perhaps it may change  - need more time to explore.
I have a pair of EL32 tubes (Mullard made - they look really well made  and at true bargain prices of less than $5 each) waiting for adapters to arrive. With all the favorable impressions of the EL tubes (EL3, 6, 8, 11, 13, 32, 38) it would be interesting to get a list of all EL tubes that are suitable as drivers in the GOTL - there are a lot of variants ......
I have seen mention of EL34 and EL37, but there must be more that may come into consideration.


----------



## mordy

My left ear is hurting. Soon you'll find out why.
After listening to the EL3N for a long time I thought they came closer to the TFK11, but somehow they lacked something - that fully satisfying bass with the TFKs.
I have a box of EL11 tubes, Most of them I bought off somebody in Germany that sold off his father's collection or maybe from his repair shop or both. Figured I try a pair of Philips Miniwatt EL11 - one was made in Holland and the other in Berlin and they did not look the same.
After my mishap blowing out a driver in my Beyerdynamic T1 I always (as long as I don't forget) turn on the GOTL without the power amp and speakers when trying out new tubes, and plug in a pair of inexpensive headphones in the GOTL. First without music, turning up the volume listening for noise, and afterwards with music.
Plugged in the Philips EL11 tubes. There was such a loud crackle in the left channel that I thought I would hurt my hearing. Jiggled the tube (stupid) and more terrible crackle and discovered that the base was loose.
Elmer's glue to the rescue. Not the white stuff from school, but this:




It is crazy glue with a little brush built into the cap ($2.99 in the Walmart School Supplies section - not in glue section). Perfect for reaching into the space between the base and the tube. But I won't try the tube now - will let it dry overnight while I rest my ear.
So I went to an East Germany maker, _RFT _*R*_adio und _*F*_ernmelde_*t*_echnik  _(Radio and Telecommunications) and put in a pair of RFT EL11 tubes.
No such luxuries as date codes, but it is possible that they were made in former TFK factories. Sounds and look similar to WW2 TFKs.



Don't miss the EL3N tubes, but I have to give those a try again with 6x6BX/BL7.
The satisfying bass is back again and these sound like the TFKs which means just right, or just perfect for my taste.
My ear is back to itself.....
JV - do you notice something familiar?


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> My left ear is hurting. Soon you'll find out why.
> After listening to the EL3N for a long time I thought they came closer to the TFK11, but somehow they lacked something - that fully satisfying bass with the TFKs.
> I have a box of EL11 tubes, Most of them I bought off somebody in Germany that sold off his father's collection or maybe from his repair shop or both. Figured I try a pair of Philips Miniwatt EL11 - one was made in Holland and the other in Berlin and they did not look the same.
> After my mishap blowing out a driver in my Beyerdynamic T1 I always (as long as I don't forget) turn on the GOTL without the power amp and speakers when trying out new tubes, and plug in a pair of inexpensive headphones in the GOTL. First without music, turning up the volume listening for noise, and afterwards with music.
> ...



Mordy, is that a computer fan over the 6336Bs? Are you blowing or pulling hot air out? 

I’ve also been meaning to ask how the 6336s changed for you over time sound wise. I love how rugged they feel and look.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 3, 2018)

.


mordy said:


> JV - do you notice something familiar?



Had to look for awhile, Mordy, but yes, see one of my "apocalyptic tree" images in the background


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Mordy, is that a computer fan over the 6336Bs? Are you blowing or pulling hot air out?
> 
> I’ve also been meaning to ask how the 6336s changed for you over time sound wise. I love how rugged they feel and look.


Hi Phantaminum,
Yes, under the shelf above my amp I mounted an old 4" PC fan that is hooked up to a 12V 1A wall wart. The fan pulls _away_ the hot air from the amp on the advice of an old engineering friend. Usually I allow the tubes to warm up for 1/2 hour or so, and then I turn on the fan. (The fan has four mounting holes and I used plastic ties to fasten it to the equipment rack.)
Re the Cetron 6336B I just know that they do an excellent job of bringing out the best in the driver tubes - can't remember if they changed over time. IMHO they provide great support for whatever driver tubes you pair them with and they don't impart their own signature in a way that interferes with the drivers.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> .
> 
> 
> Had to look for awhile, Mordy, but yes, see one of my "apocalyptic tree" images in the background


Hi JV,
I like the picture so much that I printed it out (sans the red border) and use it as a background to camouflage my boxes of accumulations.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Yo Glenn-o-philes, just dropped 6, 6bx7’s into the mix. Not sure if my ears are clogged, tubes need burned in or what, but I expected more... I feel like 4, 6bx7’s gave me more pop and slam with this combo then 6. Not sure what’s up...

Anyways, what driver and rectifier do you guys like to roll with 6, 6bx7’s??

If I got the tubes you mention I’ll take my hand briefly out of this popcorn bowl and put em in.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

gibosi said:


> And I too encourage built-in sockets rather than 6BL7/6BX7 adapters. The adapters are rather flimsy. And further, I suspect that built-in sockets will also sound better.


I can agree with the flimsy-ness. I load all my sockets up on the adaptor and THEN push the whole thing down into the Glenn. Feels much safer that way


----------



## JazzVinyl

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> Yo Glenn-o-philes, just dropped 6, 6bx7’s into the mix. Not sure if my ears are clogged, tubes need burned in or what, but I expected more... I feel like 4, 6bx7’s gave me more pop and slam with this combo then 6. Not sure what’s up...
> 
> Anyways, what driver and rectifier do you guys like to roll with 6, 6bx7’s??
> 
> If I got the tubes you mention I’ll take my hand briefly out of this popcorn bowl and put em in.



Odd that 4x got you more, BunnyMan...

I tend to infinitely prefer 6BL's over 6BX's..

What cans?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

JazzVinyl said:


> Odd that 4x got you more, BunnyMan...
> 
> I tend to infinitely prefer 6BL's over 6BX's..
> 
> What cans?


I might be eating my words... Using the ZMF Auteur now and things are sounding more as intended. 

Was using the HD800 at first (when I wrote that) and with new songs that I recently Shazammed. Might have been what threw me off.

Man I gotta try the 6BL's again. maybe ill snag some and pray they aren't noisy...


----------



## gibosi

lukeap69 said:


> Replaced my pair of TS 5998 with sextet RCA 6BX7 after many months of 5998 exclusive use. 6BX7's are wonderful especially with the HD800 SD. Then rolled the Lorenz C3g in place of Siemens C3g (these were from Glenn.) I don't hear much difference if there is at all. Maybe the EL8's and EL11's sound will be noticeably different than the C3g's. I hope...



Do your Lorenz have flat-black embossed cans? Or do they have shiny-black cans with white silk-screening? If yours have shiny-black cans, they were in fact manufactured by Siemens and so it would not surprise me if they sound about the same to you. However, if yours have the older embossed cans, then I would find it surprising. To my ears, the older embossed Lorenz sound quite different than either the older embossed Siemens or the newer Siemens with shiny-black cans.


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> Do your Lorenz have flat-black embossed cans? Or do they have shiny-black cans with white silk-screening? If yours have shiny-black cans, they were in fact manufactured by Siemens and so it would not surprise me if they sound about the same to you. However, if yours have the older embossed cans, then I would find it surprising. To my ears, the older embossed Lorenz sound quite different than either the older embossed Siemens or the newer Siemens with shiny-black cans.



I will have to check when I reached home tonight Ken, but if my memory serves me right, they are not embossed (I am 90% sure about this) so that's probably the reason they sound the same as my Siemens because they were, in fact, manufactured by Siemens. Thanks for confirming that my ears are not that bad (yet).


----------



## JazzVinyl

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> I might be eating my words... Using the ZMF Auteur now and things are sounding more as intended.
> 
> Was using the HD800 at first (when I wrote that) and with new songs that I recently Shazammed. Might have been what threw me off.
> 
> Man I gotta try the 6BL's again. maybe ill snag some and pray they aren't noisy...



You have many fine sets of 'phones...may the force be with you 


.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> I have a pair of EL32 tubes (Mullard made - they look really well made and at true bargain prices of less than $5 each) waiting for adapters to arrive.



Mine came earlier than expected. Both tubes and adapters. I like to give credit where credit is due. The EL32 were discovered by @hypnos1 and he has adapted it for use on the Euforia very successfully. 

First impression of the Mullard EL32 with 6 x GE 6BX7gt is wow.  This is in the same league as EL8 and EL13. 

I won't spill any more beans until I have spend some good hours burning in these tubes. The good news is EL32 is very quiet. As quiet as EL8 and EL13 but it has lower gain. I had to turn the volume up to 11 or 12noon and it's loud.

Langrex says these are packed in original government boxes. 1969 date codes.


----------



## UntilThen

More pictures of the Mullard EL32 from Langrex. He's selling it at 4 pounds each.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Mine came earlier than expected. Both tubes and adapters. I like to give credit where credit is due. The EL32 were discovered by @hypnos1 and he has adapted it for use on the Euforia very successfully.
> 
> First impression of the Mullard EL32 with 6 x GE 6BX7gt is wow.  This is in the same league as EL8 and EL13.
> 
> ...



Thanks, UT. Saw those adapters, wondered about the EL32, much nicer, easier way to go in the C3g sockets.
Great prices for both the adapters and the tubes. Look forward to your future comments on these.


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 4, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Mine came earlier than expected. Both tubes and adapters. I like to give credit where credit is due. The EL32 were discovered by @hypnos1 and he has adapted it for use on the Euforia very successfully.
> 
> First impression of the Mullard EL32 with 6 x GE 6BX7gt is wow.  This is in the same league as EL8 and EL13.
> 
> ...



Hi UT...glad you too are finding the EL32 a great tube in Glenn's amp also. If they sound good already, just wait 'til you've put a lot more hours on them yet...we at the F-A camp found they didn't reach anywhere near their best until 100-150 hrs. And continue to improve after that even!

And the icing on the cake is that these later straight-bottle tubes are still in plentiful supply (NOS!)...and dirt cheap...amazing! 

But also, most of us found the older ST (Coke bottle) shape version to perform even better lol! ...ENJOY!...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...glad you too are finding the EL32 a great tube in Glenn's amp also. If they sound good already, just wait 'til you've put a lot more hours on them yet...we at the F-A camp found they didn't reach anywhere near their best until 100-150 hrs. And continue to improve after that even!
> 
> And the icing on the cake is that these later straight-bottle tubes are still in plentiful supply (NOS!)...and dirt cheap...amazing!
> 
> But also, most of us found the older ST (Coke bottle) shape version to perform even better lol! ...ENJOY!...



Hi H1, it's been a while 

I sat listening for the last 2 hours suitably impressed by what I heard. This is from the 'get go' of a pair of new NOS EL32. Piqued by what you said about the ST Coke bottle shape version, I bought a quad VT52  / EL32 Mullard made in Gt Britain from a seller in India. You guys clean out all the ST version tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

My EL pentode to C3g adapters from Bulgaria are supposed to be delivered by end of day, today...

Finally, EL8 and EL3N will be possible, in the GOTL


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Hi H1, it's been a while
> 
> I sat listening for the last 2 hours suitably impressed by what I heard. This is from the 'get go' of a pair of new NOS EL32. Piqued by what you said about the ST Coke bottle shape version, I bought a quad VT52  / EL32 Mullard made in Gt Britain from a seller in India. You guys clean out all the ST version tubes.


Hi UT,
Things move fast and the latest wunder tube on the FA thread is the EL38.
I seem to remember that you had some reservations about using it in the GOTL though.


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Things move fast and the latest wunder tube on the FA thread is the EL38.
> I seem to remember that you had some reservations about using it in the GOTL though.


One more thing: The anode caps on the EL32 tubes have been reported to fall off and being very difficult to reattach. The best way is to crazy glue them before using.


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Hi H1, it's been a while
> 
> I sat listening for the last 2 hours suitably impressed by what I heard. This is from the 'get go' of a pair of new NOS EL32. Piqued by what you said about the ST Coke bottle shape version, I bought a quad VT52  / EL32 Mullard made in Gt Britain from a seller in India. You guys clean out all the ST version tubes.



Yo UT...too long...but we both have different fish to fry lol!  (mind you, it sure would be great to try your future DNA Stratus next to F-A's upcoming 2A3 based amp!! ).

Anyway, back down to Earth...yes indeed, the coated ST CV1052 especially is now hard to find. BUT...help might just be on hand soon when more folks in F-A land sample the delights of the EL38 (which renders the 32 redundant...unless as driver for the 38 as power!)....HAPPY LISTENING...CJ



mordy said:


> One more thing: The anode caps on the EL32 tubes have been reported to fall off and being very difficult to reattach. The best way is to crazy glue them before using.



Hi mordy...yes indeed, as with all old tubes the adhesive used for top caps AND bases can certainly begin to fail (they didn't have our wonder glues of today alas!!). And which is why I've been advising folks for quite a while now to glue down_* both *_ASAP...and also to *never* pull out a tube by the glass bottle...always by the _base_!


----------



## mordy

The time has come to start exploring 6 x 6BX7 as power tubes, away from the safety and convenience of just two power tubes - the 6336B.
Bought a pair of used Sylvania 7N7 relabeled as GE. They look just like the metal base 6SN7W. Do they sound the same or similar?
Unlike the metal base Sylvania 6SN7W that at times sells for hundreds of dollars, these cost less than  $12 for the pair, shipped. This pair is supposed to be best sounding version as per the cognoscenti.
Please meet General Frankie and his troops:



Very nice tone with the 6x6BX7 - very good bass and midrange and an airy, light and detailed treble with excellent wide sound stage. Doesn't have the heft in the bass of the EL11/6336 but a nicer more detailed treble.
Does this sound describe the metal base Syl 6SN7WGT?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> The time has come to start exploring 6 x 6BX7 as power tubes, away from the safety and convenience of just two power tubes - the 6336B.
> Bought a pair of used Sylvania 7N7 relabeled as GE. They look just like the metal base 6SN7W. Do they sound the same or similar?
> Unlike the metal base Sylvania 6SN7W that at times sells for hundreds of dollars, these cost less than  $12 for the pair, shipped. This pair is supposed to be best sounding version as per the cognoscenti.
> Please meet General Frankie and his troops:
> ...



That 7N7 is made by Sylvania you know.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> More pictures of the Mullard EL32 from Langrex. He's selling it at 4 pounds each.



Like your low profile adaptors with these tall tubes.  

Think I saw a Canadian seller who was offering them cheap...like $9.00 USD ea...


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> The time has come to start exploring 6 x 6BX7 as power tubes, away from the safety and convenience of just two power tubes - the 6336B.
> Bought a pair of used Sylvania 7N7 relabeled as GE. They look just like the metal base 6SN7W. Do they sound the same or similar?
> Unlike the metal base Sylvania 6SN7W that at times sells for hundreds of dollars, these cost less than  $12 for the pair, shipped. This pair is supposed to be best sounding version as per the cognoscenti.
> Please meet General Frankie and his troops:
> ...



It describes the Syls to a T. I think you’ll enjoy the  6BX7s once they open up. They surprised me and  I haven’t gone back to the 6336s with exceptions to noisy tubes. Took some time before I said, “Oh yeah, that’s the stuff”. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the 6BX7s and the EL11s.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> It describes the Syls to a T. I think you’ll enjoy the  6BX7s once they open up. They surprised me and  I haven’t gone back to the 6336s with exceptions to noisy tubes. Took some time before I said, “Oh yeah, that’s the stuff”. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the 6BX7s and the EL11s.


Hi Phantaminum,
Looks like you saved a lot of money for me - now I don't have to hunt down an expensive metal base Sylvania 6SN7WGT!
Just got another National Union 6C8G and I am trying it out with the 6 x 6BX7 tubes. It looks almost identical to my other V-163/6C8G NU tube and probably from the same production year. We better keep this under rated tube a secret so the price stays down - paid $11 incl shipping. Sounds very nice with strong bass and very good overall FR and sound stage.
Now I need a tube that combines the satisfying low end of the EL11 with the great midrange and treble of the 7N7........
There are people that like to put driver tubes both into the 6SN7 socket and the C3g sockets at the same time, but so far I find the results to be too much of a good thing.
Will put the 6x6BX7 through their paces with a variety of drivers....
Have fun!


----------



## Phantaminum (Dec 4, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> Looks like you saved a lot of money for me - now I don't have to hunt down an expensive metal base Sylvania 6SN7WGT!
> Just got another National Union 6C8G and I am trying it out with the 6 x 6BX7 tubes. It looks almost identical to my other V-163/6C8G NU tube and probably from the same production year. We better keep this under rated tube a secret so the price stays down - paid $11 incl shipping. Sounds very nice with strong bass and very good overall FR and sound stage.
> Now I need a tube that combines the satisfying low end of the EL11 with the great midrange and treble of the 7N7........
> ...



I know different gears and different ears but the NU's and 6BX7s is one of my favorite combinations behind the ECC35s. The Auteurs with the Tung-Sols, Sylvanias, and other tubes that come to mind, don't match these to my ears. C3Gs work well with the HD650s.

Edit: Do treat yourself to at least one ECC35. Great mids, and bottom end, with great treble extension that never borders on harsh.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> I know different gears and different ears but the NU's and 6BX7s is one of my favorite combinations behind the ECC35s. The Auteurs with the Tung-Sols, Sylvanias, and other tubes that come to mind, don't match these to my ears. C3Gs work well with the HD650s.
> 
> Edit: Do treat yourself to at least one ECC35. Great mids, and bottom end, with great treble extension that never borders on harsh.


Hi Phantaminum,
In looking for an ECC35, which version/label is considered the best?

I also seem to remember that UT prefers the EL11 over the ECC35 which was was his former favorite. Found the quote:
_"ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7 is the pinnacle of tube goodness in GOTL. The other driver I hold in very high regard is my Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. If I didn't hear the EL11 or EL13 in GOTL, it wouldn't be paradise lost. However once having tasted these EL tubes, I find it hard to go back to my previous jewels."_
ATM listening to the tubes with the NU VT-163 - very happy with this.
Now all i need a tube that combines the upper range and mid of the 6SN7W with the lower range of the EL11 and I am done tube rolling......
Most of my listening is through speakers, but I have a HD650 and T1 Gen1. In general I prefer the T1 with the GOTL.


----------



## mordy

Hi Glenn,
Here is a suggestion for a possible ultimate replacement for 6 x 6BX7:
6 x EL38/CV450. I'll bet that it will sound spectacular .......





https://www.ebay.com/itm/Paire-Boxe...=item33fbf3774b:g:ukEAAOSw5qdb~Qoa:rk:14:pf:0


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> Here is a suggestion for a possible ultimate replacement for 6 x 6BX7:
> 6 x EL38/CV450. I'll bet that it will sound spectacular .......
> 
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

How about this.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-EC...m=292841795780&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> In looking for an ECC35, which version/label is considered the best?
> 
> I also seem to remember that UT prefers the EL11 over the ECC35 which was was his former favorite. Found the quote:
> ...



Mordy,

If the EL11s are equivalent or better than an ECC35 then that’s a great catch. Cheaper and probably easier to find.

I own two of the black base gray plates. They are resonably priced ($165 for two) compared to the red base black plates ($200+ for one).  The ECC35s are magical right off the bat. Good time to own a GOTL and have all of these tube options.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> Looks like you saved a lot of money for me - now I don't have to hunt down an expensive metal base Sylvania 6SN7WGT!
> Just got another National Union 6C8G and I am trying it out with the 6 x 6BX7 tubes. It looks almost identical to my other V-163/6C8G NU tube and probably from the same production year. We better keep this under rated tube a secret so the price stays down - paid $11 incl shipping. Sounds very nice with strong bass and very good overall FR and sound stage.
> Now I need a tube that combines the satisfying low end of the EL11 with the great midrange and treble of the 7N7........
> ...



Hello Mordy...
7N7 is no substitute for 6SN7W in my amp. 

You say above that 7N7 has great mids and treble but not as satisfying in the bass department, and that is what I hear, too.

Suggest you try driver triplets....EL11's plus your  7N7 Frankie...


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> That 7N7 is made by Sylvania you know.


It seems to me that all 7N7 tubes were made by Sylvania regardless of what it says on the tube (just like all EL12N tubes were made by RFT regardless of brand printed on tube).
One of the forum members gave me all the inside information what to look for, and I snagged a relabeled GE 7N7 for just a few bucks.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Driver triplet....

  

.


----------



## gibosi (Dec 4, 2018)

While almost all 7N7 were manufactured by Sylvania, tubes manufactured by National Union occasionally pop up on eBay.

Sylvania on the left and NU on the right.


----------



## leftside

How does running 3 drivers impact the sound?


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> It describes the Syls to a T. I think you’ll enjoy the  6BX7s once they open up. They surprised me and  I haven’t gone back to the 6336s with exceptions to noisy tubes. Took some time before I said, “Oh yeah, that’s the stuff”. *I’d love to hear your thoughts on the 6BX7s and the EL11s.*


Well well, just plugged in the EL11 with 6x 6BX7.
First impression:

*Hervorragend - der beste Klang, den ich bisher gehört habe.*
Courtesy of Google Translate:
Excellent - the best sound I have heard to date.


gibosi said:


> While almost all 7N7 were manufactured by Sylvania, tubes manufactured by National Union occasionally pop up on eBay.
> 
> Sylvania on the left and NU on the right.


Is it worthwhile to look for the NU?


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> How does running 3 drivers impact the sound?



Extra uber clarity...I do have to turn the input down on the source, when doing this, a lot of gain in both stages....

The ECC88 is superb,  w/o C3g's in...

My favorite driver triplet combination is Ken-Rad VT-231 (which is dark) plus C3g (which are bright) and 5998 as powers which adds impact to the sub bass.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Well well, just plugged in the EL11 with 6x 6BX7.
> First impression:
> 
> Excellent - the best sound I have heard to date.



Switch to BL and let us know how that goes, please


----------



## JazzVinyl

I see some white out liquid in my future. Check this out:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GOTL-Genev...indow-bumper-sticker-decal-5-x-3/182162613342


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Is it worthwhile to look for the NU?



If you look closely, you can see round plates that appear to be similar if not the same as the NU 6F8G. And while it's been a very long time since I listened to the NU 7N7, I seem to remember that it sounded similar to the NU 6F8G.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 4, 2018)

gibosi said:


> While almost all 7N7 were manufactured by Sylvania, tubes manufactured by National Union occasionally pop up on eBay.
> 
> Sylvania on the left and NU on the right.



How do they compare,  sound wise, Ken?

Edit:
Ah...see see your reply above...thx!!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Switch to BL and let us know how that goes, please


Tomorrow - overdosed on auditory inputs....
BTW, I have an interesting collection of broken guide pins from the octal octopus tentacle sockets....well, just two.
And you convinced me to try triplets: EL11 & 7N7




I mean, there are 9 sockets there, right?
But the triplets I don't think are for me - there is more punch but speed and attack is slowing down, and vocals are sounding nasal and unnatural.
YMMV


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Tomorrow - overdosed on auditory inputs....
> BTW, I have an interesting collection of broken guide pins from the octal octopus tentacle sockets....well, just two.
> And you convinced me to try triplets: EL11 & 7N7
> 
> ...



Hello Mordy...

Suggest you keep driver triplets and go for a single pair of 6AS7's, and report back please...

The six output tubes are too much for driver triplet IMHO.

"Nasal vocals" no more 

.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Well well, just plugged in the EL11 with 6x 6BX7.
> First impression:
> 
> *Hervorragend - der beste Klang, den ich bisher gehört habe.*



Mordy glad you like EL11 with 6 x 6BX7. 

I've move on from EL11 to EL13 and EL8.... then onto EL32. All this while always with 6 x 6bx7. The 6bx7s are quite incredible sounding in Glenn OTL amp. I prefer them over my expensive GEC 6as7g, GEC 6080, Tung Sol 5998 and Bendix 6080wb.

Latest obsession is EL32 with 6 x 6bx7gt. Volume at 12 noon and HD800 has become a new headphone. Soundstage at it's best and intoxicating sweet clarity. Bass is pretty unreal. EL32 are very good drivers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Mordy glad you like EL11 with 6 x 6BX7.
> 
> I've move on from EL11 to EL13 and EL8.... then onto EL32. All this while always with 6 x 6bx7. The 6bx7s are quite incredible sounding in Glenn OTL amp. I prefer them over my expensive GEC 6as7g, GEC 6080, Tung Sol 5998 and Bendix 6080wb.
> 
> Latest obsession is EL32 with 6 x 6bx7gt. Volume at 12 noon and HD800 has become a new headphone. Soundstage at it's best and intoxicating sweet clarity. Bass is pretty unreal. EL32 are very good drivers.



Quite a testimony that 6BX7 are preferred by you, over GEC 6AS7/6080's or 5998's!   WoWzers 

Can't wait to get your opinion of the EL8's versus the larger EL tubes.

Do you have the Mazda ECC804, UT?

Tube On


----------



## felix3650

With all the recent impressions coming out I'm thinking of going with only two *SN7 single slot tubes:

· 6x 6BX7GT (output)
· *Tungsol 12SL7GT BGRP*
· *Mullard ECC35*
· Siemens C3g
· Valvo EL8
· Philips EL3N
· Telefunken EL11
· Philips EL32

No triplets for me too JV. I tend to listen at slightly low volumes. EL8 and EL3N would have the socket ready (P8A base).
I would only need adapters for the EL11 and EL32 eventually. Any suggestion about these?
And probably only a simple 6v/12v switch as 25v probably won't be needed. What do you guys think?


----------



## JazzVinyl

felix3650 said:


> With all the recent impressions coming out I'm thinking of going with only two *SN7 single slot tubes:
> 
> · 6x 6BX7GT (output)
> · *Tungsol 12SL7GT BGRP*
> ...



I say “don’t restrict yourself”.  You might find a 25v SN7 that really floats your boat.  

You might favor BL7 over BX’s...or even a pair of 6080’s...or another combo. 

You should try a Mazda ECC804 as driver (likely to be amazed). And 12AU7...

Etc...

Only your ears and your gear will tell the final tale.  

Cheers...

P.S. - completely understand about driver triplet...it’s just another wonderful option that Glenn makes available to you 

P.P.S. - you doing tube rectification?


----------



## rnros

felix3650 said:


> With all the recent impressions coming out I'm thinking of going with only two *SN7 single slot tubes:
> 
> · 6x 6BX7GT (output)
> · *Tungsol 12SL7GT BGRP*
> ...



Hi felix,
12SL7 and ECC35 are high gain, with amplification factor of 70. So are not really 6SN7s, which have AF of 20.
C3g, EL3N, and EL8 are easy to find. EL11 not so much.
Couple of options for EL32, ST bottle and straight bottle. Straight bottle is easy to find, and cheap.
I would get the 6/12/25 switch, don't think there would be much of a price difference. Better to have it. Agree with JV on this one.


----------



## felix3650

JazzVinyl said:


> I say “don’t restrict yourself”.  You might find a 25v SN7 that really floats your boat.
> 
> You might favor BL7 over BX’s...or even a pair of 6080’s...or another combo.
> 
> ...


I like good bass. The 6BL7 has it as for what I understand. The higher gain however could pose a plittle problem with some tubes.
HEXFRED rectification no tube 


rnros said:


> Hi felix,
> 12SL7 and ECC35 are high gain, with amplification factor of 70. So are not really 6SN7s, which have AF of 20.
> C3g, EL3N, and EL8 are easy to find. EL11 not so much.
> Couple of options for EL32, ST bottle and straight bottle. Straight bottle is easy to find, and cheap.
> I would get the 6/12/25 switch, don't think there would be much of a price difference. Better to have it. Agree with JV on this one.


Thanks Ros!

Ok then! I will take your advices guys. The 6/12/25v switch is staying


----------



## mordy

Tp paraphrase: I am drawn to tube amps because of the inconvenience and the expense....
World premiere EL12N as drivers in the GOTL (unless somebody else tried it already):



The EL12 tubes are very temperamental based on my experience. The EL12N exists under many labels but they are all made by RFT in the then East Germany. In general the EL12N (straight glass) has not been giving problems unlike the EL12 ST tubes.
In the GOTL, listening with headphones, everything sounds fine, but unplugging the headphones and using the GOTL as a preamp for speakers, there is a very loud hum. The funny thing is that leaving the headphones plugged in, there is no hum. However, the volume goes down with the GOTL being used for both headphones and preamp out, and the sound seems thinner.
Tried an emergency Faraday Cage, but it did not help.
I did find one cure, but a little impractical: If I put two fingers on top of the right tube (doesn't help doing it on the left tube) the hum disappears.
Success! As I writing this it fell into my mind to switch the positions of the two tubes - voila! No hum - gone by the wind...
Go figure....Individual tube? Individual adapter? Don't know, but I think that I have to mark the tube and adapter so I don't have to go through this again. The tubes seem microphonic when I tap on the chassis or tubes, so maybe an abdominal band procedure.....
So how does it sound with 6 x 6BX7? GOTL generic very good. A little bright and good everything. 
Silicone tape next.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

felix3650 said:


> I like good bass. The 6BL7 has it as for what I understand. The higher gain however could pose a plittle problem with some tubes.
> HEXFRED rectification no tube
> 
> Thanks Ros!
> ...



6AS7 and 6080 only have a gain of 2...

Good to have some around, in case...

Lets say EL8 and some or another SN7 does it for ya...as a driver triplet....

But you need less gain and can’t control the incoming volune...(btw, I can control incoming volume, so too much gain is never an issue).  

Cheers


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Tp paraphrase: I am drawn to tube amps because of the inconvenience and the expense....
> World premiere EL12N as drivers in the GOTL (unless somebody else tried it already):
> 
> The EL12 tubes are very temperamental based on my experience. The EL12N exists under many labels but they are all made by RFT in the then East Germany. In general the EL12N (straight glass) has not been giving problems unlike the EL12 ST tubes.
> ...



Your having TOO MUCH FUN, Mordy


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Your having TOO MUCH FUN, Mordy


Well, the abdominal surgery was successful to the extent that the tubes are less microphonic after the band, and there is less acoustic feedback when I tap on the chassis or the tubes; no hum. However, these tubes with the BX sextet are too bright for my taste. Maybe a different combination.
Back to the sweet little one, the Mazda ECC804, or, in intentional  British tube obfuscation, the 6/30L2.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Well, the abdominal surgery was successful to the extent that the tubes are less microphonic after the band, and there is less acoustic feedback when I tap on the chassis or the tubes; no hum. However, these tubes with the BX sextet are too bright for my taste. Maybe a different combination.
> Back to the sweet little one, the Mazda ECC804, or, in intentional  British tube obfuscation, the 6/30L2.



I have a few tubes that need this surgery, too 

And indeed the ECC804 Mazda nay be the “bargain tube to beat” in the GOTL...it is fabulous in this amp!!

Thanks to Ken,  for suggesting it.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> I say “don’t restrict yourself”.  You might find a 25v SN7 that really floats your boat.
> 
> You might favor BL7 over BX’s...or even a pair of 6080’s...or another combo.
> 
> ...




+1 the 6/12/25 volt option is killer....*GET IT!*


----------



## 2359glenn

felix3650 said:


> With all the recent impressions coming out I'm thinking of going with only two *SN7 single slot tubes:
> 
> · 6x 6BX7GT (output)
> · *Tungsol 12SL7GT BGRP*
> ...



I would go with the 25 volt setting!!
If you get it I will give you a Brimar 13D1 that is a 25SN7 or a 1633 that is a 25SN7.
I think these are great sounding tubes.


----------



## mordy

Today my EL32 adapters finally arrived - took more than three weeks to arrive.
Little bit scary to put in C3g adapters without guide pins but, as I found out, there is a howling protest if they go in the wrong way  lol....
Anyhow, got everything to work.
And how does it sound? First 5 seconds impression: Great!
These tubes are said to need well in excess of 100 hours to burn in, perhaps since they only draw 0.2A.
Unlike UT, I barely need to nudge the volume up to get more than enough volume - just a trifle more than the regular tubes. As it is 6 x 6BX7 provides enormous gain in my amp.
For some reason these tubes seem to prefer the significant other - my HD650 instead of the T1 - don't know why.
I found a German seller that can ship 1 pair or 2 pairs of the EL8 NOS for Eur 23 or Eur 35, respectively, including shipping. (PM me for details if you are interested), but I don't know if I I should bother, given that I have the EL11 and EL32 tubes.
Still having acoustic overload....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is a very nice sounding combo for the GOTL:

ECC804 as driver
4x 6BX7 and 2x 5998 as powers...

6BX7 and 5998, all have a gain of 5, so they mate well...

Adding 5998's makes the bass note more intimate, the 6BX7's, heavenly, everywhere else.

The ECC804 is a really wonderful sounding driver in this amp.  Highly recommend it.

Enjoying a superbly recorded trio featuring the late acoustic bassist: Charlie Haden.

It's just like being in the club, with them...

Really fine, cheers, all.


----------



## felix3650 (Dec 7, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> 6AS7 and 6080 only have a gain of 2...
> 
> Good to have some around, in case...
> 
> ...





JazzVinyl said:


> I have a few tubes that need this surgery, too
> 
> And indeed the ECC804 Mazda nay be the “bargain tube to beat” in the GOTL...it is fabulous in this amp!!
> 
> Thanks to Ken,  for suggesting it.



I can control volume through JRiver MC internally and without quality loss. It's just that I have to remember to tone it down when I use the HD58X with the notebook's Sabre DAC... Almost blasted my ear once when JRiver crashed and I heard a loud white noise for like 1.5s
Hmmm...let's see if my Holo Cyan acts as a preamp too (never tried it before, headphone use exclusively)...

Mazda ECC804 with adapter noted! Thanks JV 



whirlwind said:


> +1 the 6/12/25 volt option is killer....*GET IT!*





2359glenn said:


> I would go with the 25 volt setting!!
> If you get it I will give you a Brimar 13D1 that is a 25SN7 or a 1633 that is a 25SN7.
> I think these are great sounding tubes.



Yup! Thank you both Joe and Glenn!! It's in the list for sure (the full 6/12/25 option)


----------



## UntilThen

It's been almost one year since I had the GOTL. A beautiful year it has been. I've never had so much fun with any headphone amp before and one that has so many tube options. I open up the amp and was pleasantly surprised that the insides still look as good as new. 

I tried a few drivers tonight. First up was again Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. Power tubes were a mixture of Los Gatos and Fivre 6bx7gt power tubes - naturally 6 of them. Incredible. Love the 6sn7w. Next was the Mullard M8136. This is the only 12AU7 I have. Great tone. Love it. Cost me $100 ! Next tried Valvo EL8 again. There's something about the sound of these strapped triodes - incredible instruments separation and 3D sound effects.

Then back again to the Mullard EL32. I even pop in the Mullard M8136 to make it an all Mullard driver combination. Very good but I prefer it pure. So off comes the M8136. Now only Mullard EL32 with 6 x 6bx7gt. These Mullard EL32 have such an endearing laid back tone, that is also incredibly clear with superb instruments separation, with incredible soundstage, presenting your music in the most nuanced, articulate manner that is totally engrossing. It's past 1am and I'm still listening to music. Life's good.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Happy Friday


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> It's been almost one year since I had the GOTL. A beautiful year it has been. I've never had so much fun with any headphone amp before and one that has so many tube options. I open up the amp and was pleasantly surprised that the insides still look as good as new.
> 
> I tried a few drivers tonight. First up was again Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. Power tubes were a mixture of Los Gatos and Fivre 6bx7gt power tubes - naturally 6 of them. Incredible. Love the 6sn7w. Next was the Mullard M8136. This is the only 12AU7 I have. Great tone. Love it. Cost me $100 ! Next tried Valvo EL8 again. There's something about the sound of these strapped triodes - incredible instruments separation and 3D sound effects.
> 
> Then back again to the Mullard EL32. I even pop in the Mullard M8136 to make it an all Mullard driver combination. Very good but I prefer it pure. So off comes the M8136. Now only Mullard EL32 with 6 x 6bx7gt. These Mullard EL32 have such an endearing laid back tone, that is also incredibly clear with superb instruments separation, with incredible soundstage, presenting your music in the most nuanced, articulate manner that is totally engrossing. It's past 1am and I'm still listening to music. Life's good.


Hi UT,
Have been listening to EL32 + 6 x 6BX7 for a couple of hours - really impressive!
They sound different than the EL11 with the BX but need more time to clarify the differences in my mind.
EL34 next? What is the difference between EL34 and EL38?


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> It's been almost one year since I had the GOTL. A beautiful year it has been. I've never had so much fun with any headphone amp before and one that has so many tube options. I open up the amp and was pleasantly surprised that the insides still look as good as new.
> 
> I tried a few drivers tonight. First up was again Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. Power tubes were a mixture of Los Gatos and Fivre 6bx7gt power tubes - naturally 6 of them. Incredible. Love the 6sn7w. Next was the Mullard M8136. This is the only 12AU7 I have. Great tone. Love it. Cost me $100 ! Next tried Valvo EL8 again. There's something about the sound of these strapped triodes - incredible instruments separation and 3D sound effects.
> 
> Then back again to the Mullard EL32. I even pop in the Mullard M8136 to make it an all Mullard driver combination. Very good but I prefer it pure. So off comes the M8136. Now only Mullard EL32 with 6 x 6bx7gt. These Mullard EL32 have such an endearing laid back tone, that is also incredibly clear with superb instruments separation, with incredible soundstage, presenting your music in the most nuanced, articulate manner that is totally engrossing. It's past 1am and I'm still listening to music. Life's good.



Very nice!!!

I believe Mordy also really digs the EL32 in GOTL...

I placed an order for a pair, plus Mrs Xu adapters...

Thanks, UT, for getting Mrs Xu to adapt EL32 to the C3g sockets in GOTL....a stroke of genius!!


----------



## mordy

Trying to figure out the differences between the EL11 and the EL32. They ARE different, but in what way? Both superlative driver tubes in the GOTL.
The EL11 is more forward, energetic, in your face. The EL32 is more laid back, more relaxed. The EL11 puts more emphasis on the mid range, but the entire FR is well represented with a very dynamic presentation. The EL32 has a more even FR across with stronger bass impact and sub bass than the EL11. And the EL32 has better instrument separation.
So the question is: What do you like better? Chocolate Vanilla with chocolate chips ice cream or Cherry Vanilla with cherry pieces ice cream?








You decide.

Me? I take triple portions of both!


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Trying to figure out the differences between the EL11 and the EL32. They ARE different, but in what way? Both superlative driver tubes in the GOTL.
> The EL11 is more forward, energetic, in your face. The EL32 is more laid back, more relaxed. The EL11 puts more emphasis on the mid range, but the entire FR is well represented with a very dynamic presentation. The EL32 has a more even FR across with stronger bass impact and sub bass than the EL11. And the EL32 has better instrument separation.



Spot on Mordy. That's what I hear of the differences too.


----------



## UntilThen

Alas my EL tubes has a 'scratching' noise now. That started 2 days ago. All EL13, EL8 and EL32 as used in the c3g slots. Not sure what's the cause.

So it's back to Mullard ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7gt which sounds really good.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Alas my EL tubes has a 'scratching' noise now. That started 2 days ago. All EL13, EL8 and EL32 as used in the c3g slots. Not sure what's the cause.
> 
> So it's back to Mullard ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7gt which sounds really good.


Can you hear that noise without music playing? Can you describe it a little more?


----------



## UntilThen

Yes the noise is present too without music. It's a buzzing hissing sound and it's intermittent. Using dual EL11 on the 6sn7 slot and there's no issue. 

I'll wait for Deyan's adapters to arrive and see if the problem is still there. Otherwise it's back to my old fav drivers.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Alas my EL tubes has a 'scratching' noise now. That started 2 days ago. All EL13, EL8 and EL32 as used in the c3g slots. Not sure what's the cause.
> 
> So it's back to Mullard ECC35 and 6 x 6bx7gt which sounds really good.



The EL8s have a start up sound as if someone is lightly tapping metal for a good 10 minutes before they settle down.



UntilThen said:


> Yes the noise is present too without music. It's a buzzing hissing sound and it's intermittent. Using dual EL11 on the 6sn7 slot and there's no issue.
> 
> I'll wait for Deyan's adapters to arrive and see if the problem is still there. Otherwise it's back to my old fav drivers.



Hopefully it’s the adapter as you said. It looks like the other adapters are more robust and better built. I’m itching to try the EL11s and 32s but I may hold off until next year. The ECC35s have spoiled me.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> The EL8s have a start up sound as if someone is lightly tapping metal for a good 10 minutes before they settle down.



No it's not just the start up sound. In fact the buzzing sound occurs only when the tubes are warm up. When the noise comes on, it gets increasing louder.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> No it's not just the start up sound. In fact the buzzing sound occurs only when the tubes are warm up. When the noise comes on, it gets increasing louder.



Oh then that’s definitely not good. It has to be the adapter as you said that they don’t make that sound with the dual to 6SN7 adapter.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Oh then that’s definitely not good. It has to be the adapter as you said that they don’t make that sound with the dual to 6SN7 adapter.



I think it's my amp playing up. Might have to send it back to Glenn for a service check.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I think it's my amp playing up. Might have to send it back to Glenn for a service check.



UT...are your C3g's quiet along with your SN7 tubes ?


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> UT...are your C3g's quiet along with your SN7 tubes ?



c3gs or 6sn7w with 6 x 6bx7gt are quiet. It's the EL tubes with those adapters that's causing the 'scratching' buzzing sound. Also my power tubes sockets may be a bit loose now.

All's not lost. Have gone back to Siemens c3gs with a pair Tung Sol 5998. Love it. So many lovely combos in GOTL.... as long as it's working and quiet.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> c3gs or 6sn7w with 6 x 6bx7gt are quiet. It's the EL tubes with those adapters that's causing the 'scratching' buzzing sound. Also my power tubes sockets may be a bit loose now.
> 
> All's not lost. Have gone back to Siemens c3gs with a pair Tung Sol 5998. Love it. So many lovely combos in GOTL.... as long as it's working and quiet.



Sockets are loose from the chassis  or where you insert the tube pins is loose from socket ?

You could tighten socket to chassis, just be careful of those capacitors.

I love the 5998 and C3g combo


----------



## UntilThen

Tube pins are loose from sockets because the metal clips are pushed a bit deep into the sockets. So it's the contact that is causing the buzzing sound. Also Mrs Xu adapter without the metal base and key guide, the pins might be a bit long and are pushing deeper into the socket?

This is from JV's suggestion. He use ECC804 but I'm using c3g plus Tung Sol 12SL7gt bgrp with quad 6BL7 and a pair of 5998 and it's a killer !  There's no buzz now.

I'm going to stay with this until Deyan's adapters arrive.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I fail to understand how it can be the adapters, because:

EL8 and EL13 and EL32 all use different adapters, right?  All the adapters went bad at the same time?

Doubt it. 

Were any additional electronics, phones or power supplies moved closer to the GOTL?


----------



## UntilThen

It’s not the adapters that have gone bad. I think the pins are too long and when pushed in it dislodge some connections.

With c3g or 6sn7 there’s no problem.

Nothing’s changed. It’s not electro magnetic interference.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Tube pins are loose from sockets because the metal clips are pushed a bit deep into the sockets. So it's the contact that is causing the buzzing sound. Also Mrs Xu adapter without the metal base and key guide, the pins might be a bit long and are pushing deeper into the socket?
> 
> This is from JV's suggestion. He use ECC804 but I'm using c3g plus Tung Sol 12SL7gt bgrp with quad 6BL7 and a pair of 5998 and it's a killer !  There's no buzz now.
> 
> I'm going to stay with this until Deyan's adapters arrive.



I have this same of tubes in, UT and i give it two thumbs up....

Absolutely spine tinglingly 3D!!!! Fantastic!!!

Great combination of tubes!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> It’s not the adapters that have gone bad. I think the pins are too long and when pushed in it dislodge some connections.
> 
> With c3g or 6sn7 there’s no problem.
> 
> Nothing’s changed. It’s not electro magnetic interference.



Can you compare pin length between C3g and Mrs XU’s adapters?

Take a tooth pick and mark the length of the C3g pins and hold it up to mrs Xu’s....


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Can you compare pin length between C3g and Mrs XU’s adapters?
> 
> Take a tooth pick and mark the length of the C3g pins and hold it up to mrs Xu’s....



Will compare the pins length when I get home from the shops.

Will also switch the bgrp to the Ken Rad 1633.

So if I am using Ken Rad 1633 and c3g, it’s alright to set the switch to 25v?


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Will compare the pins length when I get home from the shops.
> 
> Will also switch the bgrp to the Ken Rad 1633.
> 
> So if I am using Ken Rad 1633 and c3g, it’s alright to set the switch to 25v?



Yes C3g sockets always get 6.3 volts.  Your 6/12/25 is only for the SN7 socket.


----------



## UntilThen

Pins are more than twice as long as the c3g pins.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> I have this same of tubes in, UT and i give it two thumbs up....
> 
> Absolutely spine tinglingly 3D!!!! Fantastic!!!
> 
> Great combination of tubes!!!



Well I give your recommendation 3 thumbs up. Really loving this setup. Solid bass, extended treble, the Ken Rad taming the c3g, good texture, it's a massive powerful sound that will induce feet tapping and head bobbing. 5998 and 6BL7s is a potent force and this is show casing the Super 9 - all 9 tubes utilised. 

Good job JV. Really loving this combo. I think I will let it stay.

Tubes in use:- Ken Rad 1633 (25v), Siemens c3gs, quad Sylvania 6BL7gt, pair Tung Sol 5998 with green letterings. Totally silent no noise. This makes the GOTL special. I like it even without the Ken Rad 1633 but it's better with it in. This setup has a total of 11.89a - well within limits.

Next I'll swap the Ken Rad 1633 with Mullard ECC31.


----------



## UntilThen

GET OUT OF HERE. This can't sound this good. 

If you love the ECC31 but wish that it had better treble extensions and if you love the C3g but wish that it had been a bit tamer, well your wishes have come true in this marriage. Together with 6BL7s meeting 5998, it's 2 worlds colliding and you have no where to hide. Not that you want to hide because you'll be reaching out for all your headphones to hear how they sound with this Super 9.

Love the GOTL. Thanks Glenn for a wonderful creation.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 8, 2018)

Super 9...I like that!!

This is my favorite Super nine, and I do believe this is the best I personally have heard the GOTL amp sound:




Thank you, Glenn!!!


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> This is my favorite Super nine, and I do believe this is the best I personally have heard the GOTL amp sound:



I love that setup of Ken Rad 6sn7, c3g, quad 6BL7 + TS 5998. However I will roll my best tubes in till next year when new gear arrives and I can send in my GOTL for sockets replacements.

Back to a simple setup of Mullard ECC35 and GEC 6as7g. Buttery smooth of the finest texture. It's a living voice. I'm ready to crown this the king.


----------



## Sound Trooper

The past 2-3 months have been seriously hectic due to work and I didn’t even have the time to settle down to enjoy the GEL3N. But today I finally found the time and I gleefully fired up my main headphone rig for a listen. And man, have I missed out. I honestly don’t think I have heard better out of a head-fi system and the GEL3N plays an important part in bringing the best out of the Abyss Phi. I think the only way to one-up this experience is to go for a well-resolved 2 channel system.

 

Separately I also had the opportunity to spend an hour with the Sennheiser HE1 a few weeks ago. Though the HE1 was impressively smooth and effortless , I came away feeling that the Abyss+GEL3N was not lacking in any way shape or form.


----------



## felix3650

Let's see if I can blow up the "Super 11" next year haha
The name looks like what you would call one of the best soccer teams in the world


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 8, 2018)

Sound Infinity said:


> The past 2-3 months have been seriously hectic due to work and I didn’t even have the time to settle down to enjoy the GEL3N. But today I finally found the time and I gleefully fired up my main headphone rig for a listen. And man, have I missed out. I honestly don’t think I have heard better out of a head-fi system and the GEL3N plays an important part in bringing the best out of the Abyss Phi. I think the only way to one-up this experience is to go for a well-resolved 2 channel system.
> 
> 
> 
> Separately I also had the opportunity to spend an hour with the Sennheiser HE1 a few weeks ago. Though the HE1 was impressively smooth and effortless , I came away feeling that the Abyss+GEL3N was not lacking in any way shape or form.



Nice to see you back.  
Gotta love the tone of the EL3N amp...such a big sound and that bass is so addicting.
No worrying about plopping in different tubes...sort of set it and forget it.

It seems the OTL has some advantages and the Transformer coupled has some advantages

Great that the EL3N amp can hold its own against the Senn HE1...that is very impressive.


Would love to hear one of Glenns 300B amps, but the tubes are out of my range.
Glenns amps punch *way above their price !
*
Great gear...Happy Listening.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Nice to see you back.
> Gotta love the tone of the EL3N amp...such a big sound and that bass is so addicting.
> No worrying about plopping in different tubes...sort of set it and forget it.
> 
> ...


That's the natural progression Joe; GOTL>GEL3N>G300B.


----------



## 2359glenn

I think thw EL3N sounds as good as the 300B less power but with $20 tubes it cant be beat.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> That's the natural progression Joe; GOTL>GEL3N>G300B.



Arnold, if my wife ever saw the price tag of a good pair of 300B tubes. she would  me !

I would totally love to spend just a couple days with one though.....no doubt in my mind it would be top notch.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Arnold, if my wife ever saw the price tag of a good pair of 300B tubes. she would  me !
> 
> I would totally love to spend just a couple days with one though.....no doubt in my mind it would be top notch.



Hahaha. I guess my wife would do the same. 

Me too Joe. I would love to hear Glenn's 300B.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I think thw EL3N sounds as good as the 300B less power but with $20 tubes it cant be beat.



Yes, I think I bought 14 of those $20 EL3N's...so about $280 plus shipping compared to the 300B tubes.  It is hard to say no.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Hahaha. I guess my wife would do the same.
> 
> Me too Joe. I would love to hear Glenn's 300B.



Hope you are enjoying your warm weather...it is in the teens here this morning.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Hope you are enjoying your warm weather...it is in the teens here this morning.


Indeed, the weather here is nice, thanks. Be safe over there...


----------



## whirlwind

I am listening to the "mini" version of the EL3N amp with ZMF Ori now.

Amp looks small compared to Sound Infinity's behemoth!


----------



## UntilThen

That's a nice Christmas tube amp Joe.   It has red tubes.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Nice to see you back.
> Gotta love the tone of the EL3N amp...such a big sound and that bass is so addicting.
> No worrying about plopping in different tubes...sort of set it and forget it.
> 
> ...



Totally agreed! The EL3N has a massive sound and I noticed that with the EL3N+abyss, I'll tend to listen at a much higher volume as compared to my other setups. The louder the volume, the larger the sound. It's like when you move forward from the 30th roll to the front few rolls in a rock concert. The sound is simply intoxicating!!


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> I am listening to the "mini" version of the EL3N amp with ZMF Ori now.
> 
> Amp looks small compared to Sound Infinity's behemoth!



Hahaha.. well.. your rectifier tube is bigger than mine!


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> That's a nice Christmas tube amp Joe.   It has red tubes.



Tis the season  







Sound Infinity said:


> Totally agreed! The EL3N has a massive sound and I noticed that with the EL3N+abyss, I'll tend to listen at a much higher volume as compared to my other setups. The louder the volume, the larger the sound. It's like when you move forward from the 30th roll to the front few rolls in a rock concert. The sound is simply intoxicating!!





Sound Infinity said:


> Totally agreed! The EL3N has a massive sound and I noticed that with the EL3N+abyss, I'll tend to listen at a much higher volume as compared to my other setups. The louder the volume, the larger the sound. It's like when you move forward from the 30th roll to the front few rolls in a rock concert. The sound is simply intoxicating!!



I seem to do the same,  I seem to keep reaching over and turn the amp up a notch.
It is such a non fatiguing sound that I listen too loud most of the time.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> Separately I also had the opportunity to spend an hour with the Sennheiser HE1 a few weeks ago.



WB SI. 3 weeks ago Addicted To Audio invited me to listen to the HE-1 at their Newtown branch but I couldn't make and miss the opportunity.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I seem to do the same, I seem to keep reaching over and turn the amp up a notch.
> It is such a non fatiguing sound that I listen too loud most of the time.



I do that with those pentodes strapped as triodes in the GOTL with 6 x 6bx7gt. It's a big sound and encourages you to turn up the volume as it is very natural sounding and non-fatiguing.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I do that with those pentodes strapped as triodes in the GOTL with 6 x 6bx7gt. It's a big sound and encourages you to turn up the volume as it is very natural sounding and non-fatiguing.



It sure does encourage that and like yourself and Sound Infinity...I too keep on bumping up the volume.

When I turn my amp on the next day and plug in my headphones and listen for like the first few seconds, I think, man, i was jammin last night!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Would love to hear one of Glenns 300B amps



I too would love to hear Glenn's 300B amp. It's been a while now but the 2 weeks that I spent with these 2 tube amps has been the most interesting time in my audio life.


----------



## whirlwind

Table and racks full of great gear


----------



## Sound Trooper (Dec 8, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> WB SI. 3 weeks ago Addicted To Audio invited me to listen to the HE-1 at their Newtown branch but I couldn't make and miss the opportunity.



Hey UT, the HE1 is indeed a unique experience. Super smooth, non fatiguing and balance. I came away impressed but felt that it lacked a little excitement. I guess if someone is super rich and wants only one headphone system which will sound good with all genres, then the HE1 makes perfect sense. However for me, I've found my nirvana with the GEL3N+Abyss Phi.


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> ...
> Gotta love the tone of the EL3N amp...such a big sound and that bass is so addicting.
> No worrying about plopping in different tubes...sort of set it and forget it.
> 
> ...





2359glenn said:


> I think thw EL3N sounds as good as the 300B less power but with $20 tubes it cant be beat.



REALLY looking forward to the GEL3N. : )


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> Hey UT, the HE1 is indeed a unique experience. Super smooth, non fatiguing and balanced. I came away impressed but I felt it packed a little excitement. I think if someone is super rich and wants only one headphone system which will sound good with all genres, then the HE1 makes perfect sense. However for me, I've found my nirvana with the GEL3N+Abyss Phi.



I can't afford the HE-1. Maybe that's why I 'miss' the opportunity because I don't want to leave the shop drooling over it. Whilst the auto tube raising at start up is interesting to watch, what happens when that stops working?


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> REALLY looking forward to the GEL3N. : )



I am so jealous. When are you getting it?


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Infinity said:


> Hey UT, the HE1 is indeed a unique experience. Super smooth, non fatiguing and balanced. I came away impressed but I felt it packed a little excitement. I think if someone is super rich and wants only one headphone system which will sound good with all genres, then the HE1 makes perfect sense. However for me, I've found my nirvana with the GEL3N+Abyss Phi.



I would love to hear the bass from the Abyss & GEL3N combo.
Heck, with the ZMF Ori it is killer...you get a whole head full but it is in no way presented in an overwhelmingly fashion, which is great because the bass has width and depth and all notes throughout the spectrum seem to have nice rounded edges
If that makes sense...it is just an easy sound to listen too.







rnros said:


> REALLY looking forward to the GEL3N. : )



Are you getting yours with the feature to drive efficient speakers like Sound Infinity
That is a really cool feature for those who like speakers also.
I am sure you will like the finished product.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I would love to hear the bass from the Abyss & GEL3N combo.



I heard the Abyss at the Sydney Meet on my Ragnarok and that same Woo WA5le. Love it more with the Wa5le. Also heard the Focal Utopia with those 2 amps. Another interesting point in my life. 

GEL3N and Abyss would be an interesting combo and SI lives with it.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I am so jealous. When are you getting it?



Pretty much at the front of the line now. 
But I know Glenn is VERY busy, so just enjoying GOTL while he catches up. 

UT, not too late to get in line! If you wait any longer, you'll have to get the MassDrop GEL3N. : )


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn said he is swamped with OTL builds.  I am waiting for one myself.

I think a big reason for the nice sound from the EL3N amp is the quality of transformers Glenn uses.
This amp takes advantage of those. They are expensive, but well worth it.


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> Are you getting yours with the feature to drive efficient speakers like Sound Infinity
> That is a really cool feature for those who like speakers also.
> I am sure you will like the finished product.



Would love to, but not sure about the added cost right now. Such a great idea.
But I should ask Glenn anyway. Would be stupid not to ask and then wish I had.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> I can't afford the HE-1. Maybe that's why I 'miss' the opportunity because I don't want to leave the shop drooling over it. Whilst the auto tube raising at start up is interesting to watch, what happens when that stops working?



Neither can I! If the tubes stop raising, I think the only option is to call Sennheiser


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> Glenn said he is swamped with OTL builds.  I am waiting for one myself.
> 
> I think a big reason for the nice sound from the EL3N amp is the quality of transformers Glenn uses.
> This amp takes advantage of those. They are expensive, but well worth it.



Totally agree. GOTL is a classic, very happy that I have one.
The transformers are expensive relative to other parts, but NOT compared to the crazy prices for some tubes.
Much rather have the better transformers. And, Glenn's amp designs deserve the best transformers.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> I would love to hear the bass from the Abyss & GEL3N combo.
> Heck, with the ZMF Ori it is killer...you get a whole head full but it is in no way presented in an overwhelmingly fashion, which is great because the bass has width and depth and all notes throughout the spectrum seem to have nice rounded edges
> If that makes sense...it is just an easy sound to listen too.



Bass with the Abyss is really something to behold. It’s fast, deep, detailed and visceral all at the same time. 



UntilThen said:


> I heard the Abyss at the Sydney Meet on my Ragnarok and that same Woo WA5le. Love it more with the Wa5le. Also heard the Focal Utopia with those 2 amps. Another interesting point in my life.
> 
> GEL3N and Abyss would be an interesting combo and SI lives with it.



I’m just lucky to have both in my life!


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> UT, not too late to get in line! If you wait any longer, you'll have to get the MassDrop GEL3N. : )



The only line I'll be getting into is the line to the soup kitchen. Next year, I have to start buying 2A3 tubes and at least one gorgeous rectifier for the Stratus. Now I question the wisdom of getting Smurf over Ferrari.

Right now though, I'm very happy with this.... 

Ken Rad 1633 with quad 6BL7 and 5998. It has that warm, rich, dark tone with amazing bass.


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> Totally agree. GOTL is a classic, very happy that I have one.
> The transformers are expensive relative to other parts, but NOT compared to the crazy prices for some tubes.
> Much rather have the better transformers. And, Glenn's amp designs deserve the best transformers.




Good point. With the price of some of the better power and driver tubes these days..a Lundahl is a bargain


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> The only line I'll be getting into is the line to the soup kitchen. Next year, I have to start buying 2A3 tubes and at least one gorgeous rectifier for the Stratus. Now I question the wisdom of getting Smurf over Ferrari.
> 
> Right now though, I'm very happy with this....
> 
> Ken Rad 1633 with quad 6BL7 and 5998. It has that warm, rich, dark tone with amazing bass.




I have never had the pleasure to hear 2A3 tubes, but from what i have read they sound wonderful...you should be pretty darn happy!


----------



## rnros

Sound Infinity said:


> Neither can I! If the tubes stop raising, I think the only option is to call Sennheiser



Hi SI, do you know what the tube types are in the HE-1? And I assume it is transformer coupled?


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> The only line I'll be getting into is the line to the soup kitchen. Next year, I have to start buying 2A3 tubes and at least one gorgeous rectifier for the Stratus. Now I question the wisdom of getting Smurf over Ferrari.
> ]



I bet the stratus will be killer as well. I reckon both Glenn and Donald are at the top of their game and it would be very interesting to compare both at the same time..


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> The only line I'll be getting into is the line to the soup kitchen. Next year, I have to start buying 2A3 tubes and at least one gorgeous rectifier for the Stratus. Now I question the wisdom of getting Smurf over Ferrari.
> 
> Right now though, I'm very happy with this....
> 
> Ken Rad 1633 with quad 6BL7 and 5998. It has that warm, rich, dark tone with amazing bass.



LOL, but at least the high cost of power tubes will be offset by the low cost of the driver tube.

Never have seen a Ferrari in Smurf blue, so can't help much there.


----------



## Sound Trooper

rnros said:


> Hi SI, do you know what the tube types are in the HE-1? And I assume it is transformer coupled?



I’m not too sure what tubes they were as I’m was pretty much awed by the occasion, I’m pretty sure the HE1 is transformer coupled.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> I bet the stratus will be killer as well. I reckon both Glenn and Donald are at the top of their game and it would be very interesting to compare both at the same time..



I reckon we should have a Meet preferably in Sydney or Singapore next year.... and get @leftside  to bring his Glenn 300b amp. 

... of course invitation extended to anyone else interested.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> I reckon we should have a Meet preferably in Sydney or Singapore next year.... and get @leftside  to bring his Glenn 300b amp.
> 
> ... of course invitation extended to anyone else interested.



Sounds like a plan! Would you be coming for CanJam Singapore?

To be honest, I’m tempted to also get a stratus. I read that Donald is working to reduce his wait times?


----------



## rnros (Dec 8, 2018)

Well, have to admit, the tube elevator is pretty cool.

IIRC, the cost of the HE-1 is about the same as the cost for having an actual elevator installed in your home. Including elevator music.
But true, the HE-1 will definitely sound better, and the trasformers will be quieter. : )

(And to be clear, I mean better than the home elevator, not Glenn's amp. Just making sure.)


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Infinity said:


> Sounds like a plan! Would you be coming for CanJam Singapore?
> 
> To be honest, I’m tempted to also get a stratus. I read that Donald is working to reduce his wait times?



My wait time is almost as bad. Hang my head in shame.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> Well, have to admit, the tube elevator is pretty cool.
> 
> IIRC, the cost of the HE-1 is about the same as the cost for having an actual elevator installed in your home. Including elevator music.
> But true, the HE-1 will definitely sound better, and the trasformers will be quieter. : )



Lucy tells me that the Jazz I listen to is elevator music.
That is why I went to headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> Sounds like a plan! Would you be coming for CanJam Singapore?



When's CanJam Singapore? I've never attended a CanJam before. Only the Sydney HiFi Show last year. All the other Sydney meets that I've attended before are small group events.


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> My wait time is almost as bad. Hang my head in shame.



I can personally attest that your wait times are more than worth it!


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> My wait time is almost as bad. Hang my head in shame.



Nothing to be ashamed about... It's called SUCCESS.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> When's CanJam Singapore? I've never attended a CanJam before. Only the Sydney HiFi Show last year. All the other Sydney meets that I've attended before are small group events.



It’s 30th & 31st Mar 2019!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> My wait time is almost as bad. Hang my head in shame.



You have to employ a helper now. I want to sent my GOTL in next year for new sockets and a mechanism to raise tubes like the HE-1.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> You have to employ a helper now. I want to sent my GOTL in next year for new sockets and a mechanism to raise tubes like the HE-1.



LOL Very good. : ) Something to tell the guys at the soup kitchen...

Think Glenn will have to subcontract the elevator work.


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 8, 2018)

This time last year, I received my GOTL on the 12th Dec 2017. Best Christmas present ever. All my tubes and adapters were ready and waiting. So were the source and headphones. I was lucky when I ordered there was only one person ahead of me. So I got my amp in less than 2 months from order.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> This time last year, I received my GOTL on the 12th Dec 2017. Best Christmas present ever. All my tubes and adapters were ready and waiting. So were the source and headphones. I was lucky when I ordered there was only one person ahead of me. So I got my amp in less than 2 months from order.



Yes, you came out of the gate "rollin", ''rollin", "rollin"   

I think having a Stratus and Glenn's amp ranks A++++


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> You have to employ a helper now. I want to sent my GOTL in next year for new sockets and a mechanism to raise tubes like the HE-1.



I think you should go with Yamamoto sockets expensive but great sockets.

No raising tubes I think it is stupid!! What purpose does it serve??? And moving wires all the time is no good for anything.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> You have to employ a helper now. I want to sent my GOTL in next year for new sockets and a mechanism to raise tubes like the HE-1.



Are you going to get the Yamamoto sockets ? Glenn beat me to it.

I am on my second playthru of this, with the EL3N & ZMF Ori, going to listen
to it again with HD800 next.

Definitely one on my top 10 album purchases this year.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I think you should go with Yamamoto sockets expensive but great sockets.
> 
> No raising tubes I think it is stupid!! What purpose does it serve??? And moving wires all the time is no good for anything.



These things are expensive as hell, but no denying the quality.
EL3N tubes never went in and out easier and the connection is solid.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Lucy tells me that the Jazz I listen to is elevator music.
> That is why I went to headphones.


----------



## JazzVinyl

​


----------



## felix3650

How much do the Yamamoto sockets cost?


----------



## whirlwind

felix3650 said:


> How much do the Yamamoto sockets cost?



The price varies a little depending on what all sockets would be in your amp.

I think when Glenn checked it was about $700 for my amp if I wanted them.  It would be a total of 11 sockets for me.
so I guess $60 to $65 each would not be far off


----------



## leftside

The 300B amp is too heavy to carry anywhere! It's a beast.

I've spent much more on tubes for my upcoming GOTL than I have for the 300B.


----------



## 2359glenn

felix3650 said:


> How much do the Yamamoto sockets cost?



Octal $60
Loctal $65

These prices include shipping from Germany


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> The 300B amp is too heavy to carry anywhere! It's a beast.
> 
> I've spent much more on tubes for my upcoming GOTL than I have for the 300B.



The EL3N is heavy, so I can imagine how heavy the 300B is with that big chassis.

That is the only bad thing about the OTL.
The best power tubes and driver tubes will cost you much more cash than the amp cost these days!

You can get well over $1000 in some of the best power tubes not stamped 6BL/X 7
There are lots of great driver tubes that are in the hundreds also.

The best tubes are really expensive these days, be prepared to open the wallet for people wanting these.

Fortunately for most, the amp sounds great with even the cheapest tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Plan on getting some amps done this weekend
Big snow storm tomorrow Lucy won't be taking me out
Hell North Carolina is already in a state of emergency.


----------



## whirlwind

How much are snow is expected ?


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Fortunately for most, the amp sounds great with even the cheapest tubes.


Yes probably no need to spend lot's of $'s on tubes for the GOTL. I've built up my collection over the years, and most of them can be used in my existing WA22 as well.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Yes probably no need to spend lot's of $'s on tubes for the GOTL. I've built up my collection over the years, and most of them can be used in my existing WA22 as well.



That is a big plus, having different amps that can use the same tubes.
I love all of your cool gear.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> How much are snow is expected ?



10" a disaster in North Carolina things will be closed for days. No big deal up north in Up State New York 10"
is nothing can get that from lake effect snow in a few hrs.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> 10" a disaster in North Carolina things will be closed for days. No big deal up north in Up State New York 10"
> is nothing can get that from lake effect snow in a few hrs.



Wow, that is a lot of snow for you guys.

Yes, I know all about that lake effect snow.

I went to a Cleveland Browns football game in the 80's...by the end of the game about 10 inches of snow had fallen.
We had a hard time finding our vehicle ,


----------



## whirlwind

Here is a picture of the Yamamoto sockets in the EL3N amp.

not sure you can tell of the quality from the pics though.

Rectifier socket


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Here is a picture of the Yamamoto sockets in the EL3N amp.
> 
> not sure you can tell of the quality from the pics though.
> 
> Rectifier socket



Nice pictures of them.


----------



## felix3650

whirlwind said:


> The price varies a little depending on what all sockets would be in your amp.
> 
> I think when Glenn checked it was about $700 for my amp if I wanted them.  It would be a total of 11 sockets for me.
> so I guess $60 to $65 each would not be far off





2359glenn said:


> Octal $60
> Loctal $65
> 
> These prices include shipping from Germany


Ouch! That's a steep price to pay. Almost half of my amp build just for the sockets...better spend that money on tubes then
What about these sockets? Any good?
http://shop.diyhifisupply.com/product/premium-teflon-socket-4-pin-8-pin-9-pin/


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Wow, that is a lot of snow for you guys.
> 
> Yes, I know all about that lake effect snow.
> 
> ...



In the 90s when my daughter was born my mother inlaw came to help. We went to the hospital 3hrs later there was 8" on the ground.
She feared snow and was watching the weather and there was no forecast of snow. 
She panicked I said no big deal this happens all the time if the wind starts blowing over the unfrozen lakes we get snow with no forecast of it.


----------



## 2359glenn

felix3650 said:


> Ouch! That's a steep price to pay. Almost half of my amp build just for the sockets...better spend that money on tubes then
> What about these sockets? Any good?
> http://shop.diyhifisupply.com/product/premium-teflon-socket-4-pin-8-pin-9-pin/



China sockets not nearly as good as Yamamoto. Especially if you plan on doing lots of tube rolling.
At that price I am not making any money on them.


----------



## felix3650

Ok then. Thanks Glenn. If I have to add money for the sockets plus the amp I'm better with the EL3N amp directly


----------



## Gkar

@2359glenn 
Hello Glenn,
I send you private messages several times to ask for the amp I ordered. Would you please answer. Thank you.
Regards
Gkar


----------



## 2359glenn

felix3650 said:


> Ok then. Thanks Glenn. If I have to add money for the sockets plus the amp I'm better with the EL3N amp directly



In the EL3N amp have to use Yamamoto sockets all other side pin sockets are junk!!!!!
But there less of then and they are cheaper.
$30 X 4 plus a octal for rectifier not a necessity though like the side pin.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I've spent much more on tubes for my upcoming GOTL than I have for the 300B.



That happens when you have quad WE421A amongst other good tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I think you should go with Yamamoto sockets expensive but great sockets.



Expensive but under consideration. I had a look at the Yamamoto sockets and they look very good.
http://www.jacmusic.com/sockets/Socket-Yamamoto.htm


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Fortunately for most, the amp sounds great with even the cheapest tubes.



I'm loving the $13 Ken Rad 1633. It's a great driver for blues music Joe.


----------



## UntilThen

@felix3650  some time back you ask if anyone uses a Gold Lion E88CC/6922. I have one but due to the many drivers I have, it just doesn't get enough play time. Very nice sounding tube for not much money though. With these power tubes, I can just kick back and listen to music.

A review from https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/gold-lion-e88cc-6922


----------



## UntilThen

Kudos to JV, the power tubes combination of quad 6BL7 and 5998 is really nice.  I like it.

This is one driver I won't regret spending money on. Details, clarity, soundstage and bass served on a silver platter. That's the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. In this combination, it puts you in the 'just one more song please' frame of mind..... the family is calling me that there is a lunch appointment. Such is life.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Are you going to get the Yamamoto sockets ?



I'll tell you this much Joe. I like the GOTL so much that I'll really consider the Yamamoto sockets if I am going to send it back to USA.

This amp will be made new and it will stay with me for keeps. With all the tubes I've collected, I'm not letting this amp go.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Kudos to JV, the power tubes combination of quad 6BL7 and 5998 is really nice.  I like it.
> 
> This is one driver I won't regret spending money on. Details, clarity, soundstage and bass served on a silver platter. That's the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. In this combination, it puts you in the 'just one more song please' frame of mind..... the family is calling me that there is a lunch appointment. Such is life.



Agree about Sylvania 6SN7W, mine are black base, but I do think they are very special. Have no regrets on buying mine,  either. Sound different (in a very very good way) from every other SN7 tube...

I have often asked myself...if I could only have ONE driver...6SN7W would definitely be in the running.


----------



## UntilThen

@Gkar has a pair of NOS NIB Sylvania 6sn7w black base with new green letterings. I don't blame him for anxiously waiting for his amp. Hang in tight mate. The wait is worth it.


----------



## UntilThen

Well Mordy, the onus is on you to continue to provide feedback on the Mullard EL32. Mine is out of action for the time being but I don't really miss it because I can spin some of my favourites again.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Pins are more than twice as long as the c3g pins.


Hi UT,
With all the talk of raising the tubes I found a very inexpensive solution! Should help for the C3g adapters with the too long pins:






Was cleaning up yesterday and found these garden hose washers - probably paid 99c for 10.
They fit perfectly and I doubt that they will melt with the EL32 tubes - seems to be an easy solution for the adapter pins not going too deep into the sockets, and works just fine.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright will see what I can find in the garage. Maybe some blue tack?


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Alright will see what I can find in the garage. Maybe some blue tack?


Hi UT,
You could just leave the adapters in without pushing all the way down; everything will stay in place. However,
I can also hear that scratching sound. I adjusted my volume control on the GOTL so that 6 o'clock is zero. I have so much gain that I don't need more than 8 o'clock to have more than enough gain for both headphones and speakers. Without music, turning the volume control past 9-10 o'clock brings on that low pitched scratching, hissing sound; but as said,it does not impinge on my listening.
No doubt your hearing is much more sensitive than mine, so maybe you hear it earlier.
That scratching sound is similar to turning a scratchy volume pot  - I have no idea what causes it. Maybe try a ferrite core on the anode wire?


----------



## UntilThen

Ok I am glad you have the same problem. I thought it’s my power sockets that’s loose but this happens only when I use EL tubes in the c3g sockets.

I didn’t have this problem initially. EL13 and EL8 were fine until EL32 and even then EL32 was fine in the first 2 days. Now I get it on all the EL tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy do you have this problem using EL11 with Deyan adapters?

Because my adapters are from China.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Mordy do you have this problem using EL11 with Deyan adapters?
> 
> Because my adapters are from China.


Hi UT,
You mentioned that you looked inside the GOTL. Is there any way to tell if those extra long C3g pins could touch something and cause damage? 
Put in the Deyan adapters for my EL11 tubes and no scratchy noises at all, so possibly the noise could be traced to the Chinese adapters. The only Chinese adapters I have are made for the EL32. But I get loud popping noises (explosions) here and there now that I did not have before when using the EL11 tubes and Deyan adapters. I am hoping that that there is no damage to the GOTL....
Could also be that the tubes are very old and are acting up - just don't know, but it did not happen before.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello Mordy and UT...

I am very confused...

When did scratching start, exactly?

And please clarify: C3g's still sound fine (after scratching) in C3g sockets?


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Mordy and UT...
> 
> I am very confused...
> 
> ...


Hi JV,
The scratching sounds only happen when using Mrs Xuling's Chinese adapter made for EL tubes in the GOTL. UT has several different ones, but I only have for the EL32.
I did not yet try C3g tubes again, but there is no scratchy noise using the Deyan sockets in the C3g sockets with EL11 tubes.
At first I did not hear this scratchy sound, but I am able to replicate it now with the Chinese adapters. With the volume setting I am using it does not pose a problem. However, after having used the Chinese adapters my amp seems to be acting up with loud popping noises when the EL32 tubes were shut off, and also loud popping noises when the EL11 tubes were warming up; something that I did not experience before. However, I do not know if this is related to the Chinese adapters or to the length of the Chinese C3g pins or something else.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

2359glenn said:


> Here is a 300B amp I am finishing up it has 8 ohm speaker outputs.
> The small tube in the middle is a Amperite time delay tube to do a slow start. Needed because the amp has HEXFREDS instead of a rectifier tube.



So incredibly beautiful!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> The scratching sounds only happen when using Mrs Xuling's Chinese adapter made for EL tubes in the GOTL. UT has several different ones, but I only have for the EL32.
> I did not yet try C3g tubes again, but there is no scratchy noise using the Deyan sockets in the C3g sockets with EL11 tubes.
> At first I did not hear this scratchy sound, but I am able to replicate it now with the Chinese adapters. With the volume setting I am using it does not pose a problem. However, after having used the Chinese adapters my amp seems to be acting up with loud popping noises when the EL32 tubes were shut off, and also loud popping noises when the EL11 tubes were warming up; something that I did not experience before. However, I do not know if this is related to the Chinese adapters or to the length of the Chinese C3g pins or something else.



Hello Mordy...

Some questions about the scratching sound:

Does it occur constantly? Or intervals between sounds?
If intervals, always regular? Or at irregular intervals?
Duration of a scratch sound always the same?
Loudness of the sound is constant?

For @UntilThen....only Chinese adapters, and all do it?
Think they always did it, and you just noticed it, or think they definitely did not do it at first and starting making the sound?
Anything look burnt on the adapters' PC boards?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> The scratching sounds only happen when using Mrs Xuling's Chinese adapter made for EL tubes in the GOTL. UT has several different ones, but I only have for the EL32.
> I did not yet try C3g tubes again, but there is no scratchy noise using the Deyan sockets in the C3g sockets with EL11 tubes.
> At first I did not hear this scratchy sound, but I am able to replicate it now with the Chinese adapters. With the volume setting I am using it does not pose a problem. However, after having used the Chinese adapters my amp seems to be acting up with loud popping noises when the EL32 tubes were shut off, and also loud popping noises when the EL11 tubes were warming up; something that I did not experience before. However, I do not know if this is related to the Chinese adapters or to the length of the Chinese C3g pins or something else.



Are these Chinese adapters for side pin tubes??
The Chinese side pin tube sockets are terrible. They work for the first couple of times removing the tubes then the sockets are lose making bad contact.


----------



## UntilThen

I’m at family lunch atm. When I get home I shall respond.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> You mentioned that you looked inside the GOTL. Is there any way to tell if those extra long C3g pins could touch something and cause damage?
> Put in the Deyan adapters for my EL11 tubes and no scratchy noises at all, so possibly the noise could be traced to the Chinese adapters. The only Chinese adapters I have are made for the EL32. But I get loud popping noises (explosions) here and there now that I did not have before when using the EL11 tubes and Deyan adapters. I am hoping that that there is no damage to the GOTL....
> Could also be that the tubes are very old and are acting up - just don't know, but it did not happen before.


Mordy, please play safe and don't damage your hearing, driver of the headphone, and the speakers.............................


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Mordy, please play safe and don't damage your hearing, driver of the headphone, and the speakers.............................


Thanks - I am trying to be very careful so that nothing untoward will happen.
First I turn on the GOTL without headphones, let it sit for a few minutes. Then turning down volume to zero, plugging in inexpensive headphones and scan the sonic landscape. If everything OK, turning up the volume and listen for noises, POPS, hum etc. If all clear, listen to music a little; turn off music; then turning on speakers with ss preamp (tone controls) and power amp, listen for more noise etc, and finally let the music flow....
As long as I stay with this protocol, I should be safe.....


----------



## UntilThen

Ok before Sherlock Holmes give you the run down of how this scratching came about, he has to do some test ... like right now.

1st test
Siemens c3g with quad 6BL7 and 2 x 5998. No scratch here. Everything's fine and the tone is to die for.  This has guts and impact.

2nd test.... happening now into my 3rd song.
Telefunken EL13 using the china adapters with quad 6BL7 and 2 x 5998. No scratch !!! No noise everything's fine. I had the long pins pushed all the way in. BTW this is a killer tone. 

Wait.... I hear one scratch. There's no mistaking it. Now more scratches and it's becoming increasingly constant. Always only on the right side.... 

Ok test cancelled. I don't want to damage my HD800 or the amp.

Btw EL13 is similar to EL11. No top anode cap.

Now the scratch happens less but it's intermittent. No good.


----------



## UntilThen

So to recap how I discovered the problem.

I was using EL3N and EL11 / EL13 for about a week with those china adapters with no problems. No scratch exist.

Then EL8 tubes came. Love it still no scratches.

EL32 arrived 2 days later with the adapters. For 2 days I was enjoying EL32 with no problems. Never heard any scratches. Then on the 3rd day of using EL32, I heard those scratches - always only after the tubes were warm up and into several songs. Initially I thought my 6 x GE 6BX7gt has gone bad. So I change to my other good set of Los Gatos / Fivre 6bx7s. Still heard those scratches. Tried EL8 and EL13 after that and they too have those scratches after I discovered it using EL32.

Switch back to c3g and there was only once I thought I heard a very faint scratch. Then it's silence. c3g works fine. Thank goodness !

So where do I go from here? I can tell you I won't be using those long pins adapters again. I don't know what cause it. Whether it's the long pins or whatever but I won't use it again.

I will wait for Deyan's adapter from Bulgaria to arrive. Then I'll know whether it's ok to proceed or just to forget about using the EL tubes in the c3g sockets.

Btw the same EL13 / EL11 tubes used with the dual adapters in the 6sn7 socket don't have this problem.

Mordy I don't think your amp's damage. It's probably your EL11 tubes that's causing those loud pops.  

Next when my GOTL is cooldown, I'll open her up and see how the inside looks.


----------



## mordy (Dec 8, 2018)

Got a little dizzy from the EL roller coaster so jumped off into calmer territory.
6 x BX + a 1964 Tung Sol 5687 as driver. This sounds just fine. A quick check on eBay showed that the prices have shot up. The tubes I have were picked up in the bargain stores a couple of years ago for a couple of bucks , but a pair of NOS Tung Sol 5687 sold yesterday for over $260! But you can still find these for under $10......
A pair of a close cousin named 6900 sold for $850 recently - must be the gold plated pins......
PS: This tube sounds better than the Mazda ECC804 . Very nice bass.
Here is a picture of this little over achiever leading the pack:


----------



## mordy




----------



## UntilThen

30 mins with C3gs and 6 x 6bx7gt and it's singing beautifully with no ill effects. Forgot how lovely this combo can sound. So lively and crystal clear and sweet. Amp is perfect and will stay this way. 

The inside of the amp still look perfect after one year. Nice.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> 30 mins with C3gs and 6 x 6bx7gt and it's singing beautifully with no ill effects. Forgot how lovely this combo can sound. So lively and crystal clear and sweet. Amp is perfect and will stay this way.
> 
> The inside of the amp still look perfect after one year. Nice.



Your amp definitely looks fantastic,,,will last you a lifetime...!

Me,  running C3g 5998 and 4x 6BX7's and agree,,,WOW!

Glenn very smart to make sure we had C3g sockets in this amp.

Cheers


----------



## gibosi

Actually, I was the one who first asked Glenn to put C3g sockets in an OTL. As usual, he said sure, but he didn't know if they would sound good. lol


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Actually, I was the one who first asked Glenn to put C3g sockets in an OTL. As usual, he said sure, but he didn't know if they would sound good. lol



You are to be applauded G because nothing will sound like a c3g. It's crystal clear and my ears loves details.

I have a question G. Can a 12AT7 tube be used in a 12AU7 to 6sn7 adapter?


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Actually, I was the one who first asked Glenn to put C3g sockets in an OTL. As usual, he said sure, but he didn't know if they would sound good. lol



Oh, I see!  Well thank you, Ken for suggesting it!  They are _the_ premium tube!  So dynamic and clean,

You also suggested the ECC804, and I consider that tube to also be superb, Sounds very much like the C3g's as well.

Your years of listening experience has benefited many!

Thanks,  again!!


----------



## UntilThen

I am interested in this 12AT7. It has a nice box. Well the tube construction looks interesting too. Know anything about this tube? 

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/to...12at7-untested-nos-prefect-working-condition/


----------



## UntilThen

The tube combo to finish off the weekend is Philips Miniwatt FDD20 with 6 x 6bx7gt. Superb clarity and the bass gets better each time I listen to it.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> I am interested in this 12AT7. It has a nice box. Well the tube construction looks interesting too. Know anything about this tube?
> 
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/to...12at7-untested-nos-prefect-working-condition/


I'd say it's RFT ECC81 relabeled by Trigon.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> I'd say it's RFT ECC81 relabeled by Trigon.



Thanks Oskari. That's a surprise. I thought it's a made in England tube.


----------



## felix3650

I should say thank you to all of you guys for the excellent contributions and for making me want this amp more and more!
Can't wait for early next year when budget will be ready and the waiting game to begin


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I'll tell you this much Joe. I like the GOTL so much that I'll really consider the Yamamoto sockets if I am going to send it back to USA.
> 
> This amp will be made new and it will stay with me for keeps. With all the tubes I've collected, I'm not letting this amp go.




Heck no, don't let it go! You already have all of the tubes you would ever need, and damn good ones at that.
This is the amp that you dreamed about!

I understand your thinking, it is a lot of money for tube sockets, but you know how much you love it and it will be with you forever.
They way that you roll tubes I think it would benefit you in the long run.

 Glenn's stock sockets are nice, and I only roll tubes once every couple of weeks or maybe even a month at this point.  I like the different tones as you do  





2359glenn said:


> Are these Chinese adapters for side pin tubes??
> The Chinese side pin tube sockets are terrible. They work for the first couple of times removing the tubes then the sockets are lose making bad contact.



Yes sir,so easy to insert and fit is solid.  No need to mess with the side pin contacts on these sockets.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Actually, I was the one who first asked Glenn to put C3g sockets in an OTL. As usual, he said sure, but he didn't know if they would sound good. lol



Yes, and look how that turned out.  Put these in the drivers seat and all power tubes sound good! 
Being able to use them with no adapter is wonderful.


----------



## UntilThen

I bought 3 pairs of NOS c3g in their original boxes. In the early days (that's almost a year ago), 2 pairs always hums or oscillates so I don't use them much. I kept it aside. Now I pull them out and try them all. They are all quiet now ! What happen? 

So with 3 pairs of c3gs, they will outlive me.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> You are to be applauded G because nothing will sound like a c3g. It's crystal clear and my ears loves details.
> 
> I have a question G. Can a 12AT7 tube be used in a 12AU7 to 6sn7 adapter?



Yes you can use the 12AT7 in the 12AU7 adapter no problem.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> 30 mins with C3gs and 6 x 6bx7gt and it's singing beautifully with no ill effects. Forgot how lovely this combo can sound. So lively and crystal clear and sweet. Amp is perfect and will stay this way.
> 
> The inside of the amp still look perfect after one year. Nice.



What would happen to it??? Nothing run's really hot.


----------



## 2359glenn

I don't know why when it snows in North Carolina the power goes out. This never happened up north when it snows.
Running on generator now but only have 4hrs of phone and internet before the battery's in the phone company's equipment go dead.
What a bunch of crap.


----------



## whirlwind

How much snow do you have Glenn?

That sucks about the loss of power.


----------



## 2359glenn

About 10" and still snowing hard.


----------



## whirlwind

Stay safe.

Cold here, but zero snow.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> About 10" and still snowing hard.



That is an unusual amount for N.C. - power goes out because all the lines are above ground.  Tree falls across the lines...
Been that way forever out there.  Our lines are underground, rarely does the power go out...

Stay warm and safe, my friend...


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> 30 mins with C3gs and 6 x 6bx7gt and it's singing beautifully with no ill effects. Forgot how lovely this combo can sound. So lively and crystal clear and sweet. Amp is perfect and will stay this way.
> 
> 
> The inside of the amp still look perfect after one year. Nice.


Hi UT,
Based on what you see inside, is there any chance that the long C3g adapter pins from the Chinese sockets could touch something and cause a short?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Based on what you see inside, is there any chance that the long C3g adapter pins from the Chinese sockets could touch something and cause a short?



There is no way the pins can come through the bottom of those sockets!!!
Probably the crapty Chinese side pin sockets are causing the problem.
The first EL3N anp I built I found out you get to put the tube in those Chinese sockets once if you take them out the next time they won't make good contact.
It is like the springiness of the contacts is gone after one use JUNK.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> There is no way the pins can come through the bottom of those sockets!!!
> Probably the crapty Chinese side pin sockets are causing the problem.
> The first EL3N anp I built I found out you get to put the tube in those Chinese sockets once if you take them out the next time they won't make good contact.
> It is like the springiness of the contacts is gone after one use JUNK.


Hi Glenn,
The sockets under discussion are made for the EL32 tubes and use an octal base on the top part.





The question is what causes the scratchy noise, similar to a noisy volume control. Could it be that the anode wire and cap act as an antenna? Or it is something in the design of the circuit board/socket?
And what would be a possible fix?
Even though this adapter does not have a guide pin, it fits well - you just have to be careful inserting it.
Just heard on the radio that a snow emergency has been declared in the Carolinas and people are advised not to drive....


----------



## JazzVinyl

I too, doubt the length of pins has anything to do with the problem,

I know I have asked before, but once again:

There are currently three styles of EL to C3g adapters:

Octal->C3g    for EL11/EL13
Side Contact-> C3g   for EL3n/EL8
Octal w/Anode Cap Wire->C3g for EL32/CV1052

All THREE Mrs Xu adapters have the exact same problem?


----------



## 2359glenn

It is ridicules down here I used to live in up state New York do you think we stayed at home every time it snowed.
We would be in from October to April 
Don't know what is wrong with those adapters it could be the tube is osculating.
Have you tried the adapters from that guy in Europe??


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> I too, doubt the length of pins has anything to do with the problem,
> 
> I know I have asked before, but once again:
> 
> ...



Yes all 3 adapters have the same problem now.


----------



## 2359glenn

Do you know how she has them wired up.  They should be wired from pentode to pentode no changing it to triode.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Do you know how she has them wired up.  They should be wired from pentode to pentode no changing it to triode.



Yes I ask the question twice and she confirm it’s pentode to pentode. 

The problem is it works for 2 days without issue then on the 3rd day I started hearing that noise. It’s not oscillations. It sounds like bees buzzing.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Yes I ask the question twice and she confirm it’s pentode to pentode.
> 
> The problem is it works for 2 days without issue then on the 3rd day I started hearing that noise. It’s not oscillations. It sounds like bees buzzing.


Tried the EL32 adapters again with ferrite chokes on the anode wires and pieces of aluminum foil covering the anode caps.



Possible the scratchy noise has diminished, but it is still there. Also wonder if the ferrite chokes have an effect on the sound?
The Deyan adapters for EL11 and EL3N to C3g do not have any noise problems, but I do not have his adapters for EL32 to C3g so cannot compare for these adapters.
As far as I am concerned the EL32 are very nice sounding tubes, but the noise problems, most likely from the Chinese adapters, persist.


----------



## mordy

Another new problem is that the tubes tick loudly for a good 15 minutes after turning them on, and they also tick loudly when shutting off the amp - did not have this happen before.
I think somebody else mentioned something similar with the EL8.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Another new problem is that the tubes tick loudly for a good 15 minutes after turning them on, and they also tick loudly when shutting off the amp - did not have this happen before.
> I think somebody else mentioned something similar with the EL8.



I do not have this loud ticks from my EL8 and EL3N.

Glenn, I noticed when looking inside the amp, there is a wire soldered to the side of the hole where the c3g key guide is inserted. In the absence of a adapter without a key guide, would a contact be missing?


----------



## 2359glenn

That is a ground to the metal shell on the C3g just a ground wire. will not make a difference on all glass tubes.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Another new problem is that the tubes tick loudly for a good 15 minutes after turning them on, and they also tick loudly when shutting off the amp - did not have this happen before.
> I think somebody else mentioned something similar with the EL8.


Thermal expansion?


----------



## UntilThen

I'm waiting on Deyan's adapters from Bulgaria before drawing any conclusions. In the event I couldn't use EL tubes in the c3g sockets, it's no big deal.

Yesterday, whilst listening to either c3g or fdd20 with 6 x 6bx7gt, I was extremely happy with what I hear. It's a great tone, nuanced, details and sweetness. There are far too many drivers that sound great in the GOTL. Even more happy that all 3 pairs of my c3gs are utterly quiet now.


----------



## 2359glenn

If Deyan's adapters don't work in the C3g sockets you can always try dual adapters in the SN7 socket.
It has different operating points then the C3g sockets. But the C3g points should be closer to being right for these tubes.

Surprised I still have internet and phone at this point the power has been out all day. Still running on generator power.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi folks.

Just for the record, I'd like to say that the resurgent popularity of the C3g came about a good few years ago now, when Audiofanboy - who was a prime mover in the LittleDot Tube Rolling Guide days, along with Acapella11 - made a passing reference to this tube while we were exploring new possibilities for the MKIV SE especially. On a whim, I decided to see if I could adapt this tube for use in our LDs...and it worked! Very well indeed, in fact, and it became a popular choice.

I then hoped against hope that it would also work in the F-A Elise-to-be, and with advice from Glenn, I successfully adapted it once more...the rest is history, as they say...

And so I personally reckon we all owe a debt of gratitude to Audiofanboy for initiating the return of this wonderful tube...(and who seemed to disappear a long while ago, almost without trace alas...).


----------



## gibosi

I would point out that Glenn has been using C3g's as drivers in his 300B amps for quite some time.... So it wasn't that much of a stretch to ask him to put a couple of them in the OTL.

Audiofanboy is currently living in Japan. I had hoped to meet up with him while I was there last month, but we couldn't find a time when both of us were free...  But maybe we will be able to meet the next time I go...


----------



## mordy

Taking an


gibosi said:


> I would point out that Glenn has been using C3g's as drivers in his 300B amps for quite some time.... So it wasn't that much of a stretch to ask him to put a couple of them in the OTL.
> 
> Audiofanboy is currently living in Japan. I had hoped to meet up with him while I was there last month, but we couldn't find a time when both of us were free...  But maybe we will be able to meet the next time I go...


Hi gibosi,
Care to share any audio impressions from Japan (if you had the time for this when you visited)?


----------



## mordy

Exploring JV's recipe with 4xBX/BL and a pair of 5998s as power tubes.
As they say in the world of cars, this combination has "low end grunt."
A+ with the 5687 - really enjoying it.
I have been told that high end tube equipment doesn't sell unless there is nice tube glow, so here it is:


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Taking an
> 
> Hi gibosi,
> Care to share any audio impressions from Japan (if you had the time for this when you visited)?



While I had hoped to check out some tube shops and museums, a couple Japanese women kept me too busy. lol


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Exploring JV's recipe with 4xBX/BL and a pair of 5998s as power tubes.
> As they say in the world of cars, this combination has "low end grunt."
> A+ with the 5687 - really enjoying it.
> I have been told that high end tube equipment doesn't sell unless there is nice tube glow, so here it is:



Thats beautiful, Mordy! Bet it sounds beautiful, too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> While I had hoped to check out some tube shops and museums, a couple Japanese women kept me too busy. lol



Ahem!

You GO, g...


----------



## Xcalibur255

I see the Carolinas got hit with a much bigger storm than was expected.  Hope you and L are staying safe and warm Glenn.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> I see the Carolinas got hit with a much bigger storm than was expected.  Hope you and L are staying safe and warm Glenn.


----------



## mordy

At first I thought that a tube roller left his phone number, but then I realized that it is something else.....
*800
274/421/7308*

Here is my number: 81/5998/5687/6297
All you need is a phone pad to figure it out lol......


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Dec 10, 2018)

My number's quite short and has been listed in the book for a very long time:  45.

Gosh I can't believe it's going on 4 years already I've had the amp.  Time flies.  If I could go back and change a few things I probably would, but overall it's still a treasure and on the whole the single best sounding piece of audio gear I've ever experienced.  To this day I have mixed feelings about spec'cing the amp to have essentially no tube rolling options.  It certainly cut down on OCD, but killing off the more playful aspects of the hobby come with their own repercussions over time.  I hope to not make the same mistake if Glenn is generous enough to offer me some of his time to build a new speaker amp this spring.


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 10, 2018)

gibosi said:


> I would point out that *Glenn has been using C3g's as drivers in his 300B amps for quite some time*.... So it wasn't that much of a stretch to ask him to put a couple of them in the OTL.
> 
> Audiofanboy is currently living in Japan. I had hoped to meet up with him while I was there last month, but we couldn't find a time when both of us were free...  But maybe we will be able to meet the next time I go...



True, but Audiofanboy and our (including your) days with LittleDots were _still_ the catalyst for the OTL...credit where it's due...


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> While I had hoped to check out some tube shops and museums, a couple Japanese women kept me too busy. lol


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> True, but Audiofanboy and our (including your) days with LittleDots were _still_ the catalyst for the OTL...credit where it's due...



Actually I had been selling OTL amps on E-Bay long before I joined Head-fi.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> Actually I had been selling OTL amps on E-Bay long before I joined Head-fi.



Yes indeed Glenn...and folks sure are lucky you did indeed join head-fi lol! ...(and I bet you don't miss those ebay/PayPal fees either!! ).

But my point was re. using the *C3g* in OTLs...didn't think you yourself did? And certainly _nobody_ here at head-fi - as far as I'm personally aware - even _knew_ about this tube before the LittleDot experiment. That's all I meant to say lol.... But whatever, it certainly is one great tube...(the Germans did make some fine ones to be sure...).


----------



## 2359glenn

I did use the C3g in the 300B amps reason was the 6SN7can't drive the 300B properly. And somebody asked me to put it in the OTL. They might have got the idea from Audiofanboy 
The only tube I used that was recommended on head Fi was the EL3N and I think that was from you. And sounds great in the proper circuit.


----------



## mordy (Dec 10, 2018)

Today another little short and fat driver arrived - a GE5670 (AKA 2C51, 396A etc etc) . Birthdate October 1967.





(Picture only for illustration purposes)
Was informed by the cognoscenti that a triple mica square getter GE is the best GE variant. The fact that that the GOTL only needs one driver makes it easier to find a good deal. Paid $6.25 incl shipping for one that measures pretty good. There is a 10% difference between triodes (102%/92%) - I doubt that anybody can hear such a difference; at least I can't hear it.
As all good drivers, this one is a little different than it's skinny competitors such as ECC804, 12AU7, 5687 and so on. Sounds very lively with the backing of 6BX7 and TS5998 dimpled domino plates, with great timbre, especially in the mid bass; the bass is less pronounced compared to the 5687. Very nice sound.......
Now I have to burn in my brain to get used to the sound and integrate the sound into my (short term) audio memory. Using my T1s there is great clarity in the treble.
I really like the sound. Even though it is lively, it is relaxed.
But I know that I have to be careful of first impressions - need more time.....


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Today another little short and fat driver arrived - a GE5670 (AKA 2C51, 396A etc etc) . Birthdate October 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mordi,

The 5670s are fantastic tubes. The GE 5 Star triple micas are some of my favorite, the Tung Sols 5670s are great for mids, and the WE396 have great detail. I think the prices have gone up but you can't go wrong with these tubes. Great choice for a driver!


----------



## mordy

Did you try the 2C51 L M Ericson?


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Did you try the 2C51 L M Ericson?



I did but there are several different builds. Square getter with gold pins that are very detailed and extended treble but missing a bit of low end,  square getter and steel pinsb that are just like the gold pins, and my favorite the steel pin and O-getter. They are much warmer, personally sound smoother than the WE396As, and a tad bit more detailed. Not sure why these sound different than the others.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I did use the C3g in the 300B amps reason was the 6SN7can't drive the 300B properly. And somebody asked me to put it in the OTL. They might have got the idea from Audiofanboy
> The only tube I used that was recommended on head Fi was the EL3N and I think that was from you. And sounds great in the proper circuit.



The important thing is that you were innovative and knowledgeable to implement the use of c3g and EL3N tubes in beautiful sounding amps and for that the community here will always love you for it.

I for one love how c3g sounds in the OTL. I make mention that c3g doesn't sound strident in the OTL. It is the implementation. It is crystal clear and and dish out details that will win the hearts and minds of details lovers.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> The important thing is that you were innovative and knowledgeable to implement the use of c3g and EL3N tubes in beautiful sounding amps and for that the community here will always love you for it.
> 
> I for one love how c3g sounds in the OTL. I make mention that c3g doesn't sound strident in the OTL. It is the implementation. It is crystal clear and and dish out details that will win the hearts and minds of details lovers.



Well said.


----------



## attmci

https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubediy&m=102988


----------



## UntilThen

Deyan's adapters have arrived. It's even bigger than fdd20 adapter but is well made. Quality stuff.


----------



## UntilThen

I have been listening to EL8 and 5998 on the OTL for a few hours. I'm sure my face has a silly but happy grin as I reach for the volume knob and let it rip. These tubes encourages you to crank it up because it's a moving experience. No scratch btw.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 11, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> The important thing is that you were innovative and knowledgeable to implement the use of c3g and EL3N tubes in beautiful sounding amps and for that the community here will always love you for it.



Every word, exactly correct. 

C3g in GOTL sounds miles better than it does in amps not designed for it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I have been listening to EL8 and 5998 on the OTL for a few hours. I'm sure my face has a silly but happy grin as I reach for the volume knob and let it rip. These tubes encourages you to crank it up because it's a moving experience. No scratch btw.



Looking forward to enjoying the same.  

One of my 2 adapters from Deyan didnt work properly, he has a replacement on the way.  

Its been weeks and weeks, waiting to hear the EL8’s....oh, the suspense!!


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 11, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> I did use the C3g in the 300B amps reason was the 6SN7can't drive the 300B properly. And somebody asked me to put it in the OTL. They might have got the idea from Audiofanboy
> The only tube I used that was recommended on head Fi was the EL3N and I think that was from you. And sounds great in the proper circuit.



Hi Glenn...the idea did indeed come from Audiofanboy, and then experimented with by myself lol . I personally had long admired the C3m used by Yamamoto, but at 20V heater was a bit too rich for me!!

And your own trials plus expertise, combined with exposure here at head-fi, have certainly brought rich rewards for many tube amp lovers...

As for the EL3N...it's a shame it took further prompting from UT and mordy for me to try its German equivalent - the EL11 - that most preferred...a GEL11 has a certain ring to it, no?!!


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Deyan's adapters have arrived. It's even bigger than fdd20 adapter but is well made. Quality stuff.



The quality of these look to be night and day difference.


----------



## Sound Trooper (Dec 12, 2018)

All this talk about driver/power tube rolling on the GOTL has got me jealous! With the simple GEL3N, I think the only viable alternative is to roll rectifier tubes. I am currently using a really nice Miniwatt GZ34 which UT graciously sold to me earlier and I think it matches the GEL3N really well. I also bought a Mullard GZ32 and admittedly have not used it much, but so far, my impression is that the GZ34 walks all over the GZ32 in terms of sound stage and resolution. All this talk of rectifiers got me thinking and I have been looking out for a decently priced NOS WE 422A but unfortunately my search has came up empty thus far. Anyway, long story short, I ended up looking at the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B and placed the order a few moments ago. I'll post my impressions when they arrive.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> All this talk about driver/power tube rolling on the GOTL has got me jealous! With the simple GEL3N, I think the only viable alternative is to roll rectifier tubes. I am currently using the a really nice Miniwatt GZ34 which UT graciously sold to me earlier and I think it matches the GEL3N really well. I also bought a Mullard GZ32 and have not used it much, but so far, my impression is that the GZ34 walks all over the GZ32 in terms of sound stage and resolution. All this talk of rectifiers got me thinking and I have been looking out for a decently priced NOS WE 422A but unfortunately my search has came up empty thus far. Anyway, long story short, I ended up looking at the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B and placed the order a few moments ago and I'll post my impressions when they arrive.



Enjoy. My only regret is not having a chance to hear the Miniwatt gz34. 

The blue Sophia Electric Aqua 274B is very eye catching.


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Glenn...the idea did indeed come from Audiofanboy, and then experimented with by myself lol . I personally had long admired the C3m used by Yamamoto, but at 20V heater was a bit too rich for me!!
> 
> And your own trials plus expertise, combined with exposure here at head-fi, have certainly brought rich rewards for many tube amp lovers...
> 
> As for the EL3N...it's a shame it took further prompting from UT and mordy for me to try its German equivalent - the EL11 - that most preferred...a GEL11 has a certain ring to it, no?!!



That amp would be the same as the EL3N with EL11s. Don't know if it is worth it can get EL3Ns for $20 each.
If somebody asks for a EL11 amp I will build it maybe a nicer base on that tube. I am not a an of side contact tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Enjoy. My only regret is not having a chance to hear the Miniwatt gz34.
> 
> The blue Sophia Electric Aqua 274B is very eye catching.



You can try using the EL8 in the driver postion


----------



## Sound Trooper (Dec 12, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Enjoy. My only regret is not having a chance to hear the Miniwatt gz34.
> 
> The blue Sophia Electric Aqua 274B is very eye catching.



The miniwatt gz34 sounds fantastic and i think it really brings the best qualities of the GEL3N (bad ass bass, big sound stage, fast, non-fatiguing highs). With the gz32, I somehow feel that some of the magic is lost, the sound is a tad slower and warmer. I'm really curious about how the A274B would sound like in the GEL3N and if it sounds better than the gz34, then I'll likely continue my search for the elusive WE422A.


----------



## UntilThen

@Sound Infinity , try the EL8 tube in the driver position of your GEL3N. Get a pair of these tubes
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-x-EL8...h=item5b0d0898d2:g:AtIAAOSwQm9Zyp70:rk:3:pf:0

I'm listening to EL8 with 5998 and EL13 with 5998 using Deyan's adapters. Beautiful, beautiful sound. Can't decide which I like more. EL8 or EL13.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> @Sound Infinity , try the EL8 tube in the driver position of your GEL3N. Get a pair of these tubes
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-x-EL8...h=item5b0d0898d2:g:AtIAAOSwQm9Zyp70:rk:3:pf:0
> 
> I'm listening to EL8 with 5998 and EL13 with 5998 using Deyan's adapters. Beautiful, beautiful sound. Can't decide which I like more. EL8 or EL13.




I was going to order a pair of these from this seller a few days ago, but unfortunately he does not ship to the U.S.A


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> That amp would be the same as the EL3N with EL11s. Don't know if it is worth it can get EL3Ns for $20 each.
> If somebody asks for a EL11 amp I will build it maybe a nicer base on that tube. I am not a an of side contact tubes.



It's not viable to build an amp using EL11 now because there are hardly any NOS supply of EL11. If you build a tube amp using EL34, how would you design it. What drivers would you use.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I was going to order a pair of these from this seller a few days ago, but unfortunately he does not ship to the U.S.A



That's a surprise. He ships to Australia.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> That's a surprise. He ships to Australia.



I did not ask, but that is what it says on the auction page, so I did not pursue it.

Maybe Glenn would use the EL34 as power and driver tubes


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> @Sound Infinity , try the EL8 tube in the driver position of your GEL3N. Get a pair of these tubes
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-x-EL8...h=item5b0d0898d2:g:AtIAAOSwQm9Zyp70:rk:3:pf:0
> 
> I'm listening to EL8 with 5998 and EL13 with 5998 using Deyan's adapters. Beautiful, beautiful sound. Can't decide which I like more. EL8 or EL13.



Hey UT, thanks for the recommendation. I’ve placed the order for the EL8 tubes.


----------



## felix3650

whirlwind said:


> I was going to order a pair of these from this seller a few days ago, but unfortunately he does not ship to the U.S.A


Hey Joe. I can help if you want. I can purchase a pair (I'll need one myself for my future GOTL too) and then sell it to you in case. No problem for me shipping to the US safe and sound! I'm from Italy. They'll be NOS ofcourse as I won't be hanging them in my christmass tree or something lol 
Consider it as an option in case he doesn't ship in the US! No monetary gain from me. Just happy to help you guys out and contribute to this very nice community.

@UntilThen 
Thanks man for finding these out


----------



## whirlwind

felix3650 said:


> Hey Joe. I can help if you want. I can purchase a pair (I'll need one myself for my future GOTL too) and then sell it to you in case. No problem for me shipping to the US safe and sound! I'm from Italy. They'll be NOS ofcourse as I won't be hanging them in my christmass tree or something lol
> Consider it as an option in case he doesn't ship in the US! No monetary gain from me. Just happy to help you guys out and contribute to this very nice community.
> 
> @UntilThen
> Thanks man for finding these out




That is a very kind offer, and if you are up for it then count me in!
I need a pair of tubes for the EL3N amp.
PM me the details and how much i will owe you and I can paypal you the money.

Much appreciated.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It's not viable to build an amp using EL11 now because there are hardly any NOS supply of EL11. If you build a tube amp using EL34, how would you design it. What drivers would you use.



I would use maybe EL8/EL3N , C3g , or 6SJ7 for driver to EL34 to Lundahl transformers Maybe would be able to use KT88 or KT150
for more power.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Well....... Looks like my GEL3N is getting some goodies
The Sophia Electric Aqua 274B is arriving next Monday and the EL8 tubes which UT recommended is probably on its way as well (however in my haste, I've accidentally ordered 2 pairs.. doh!). I've also managed to score a WE 422A from @auricgoldfinger !

Happy days ahead!

Separately I have also been thinking about what the ultimate, cost no object Glenn amp would be?


----------



## UntilThen

SI, you are going all out with rectifiers. Happy days indeed.

I did not start the EL8 trend. Credit goes to @rnros. With 2 pairs, you could run all EL8 in your amp.

Looks like my amp needs a sockets change soon and a health check. Glenn let me know when this is possible. 

In the meantime I have to fall back on Jotenheim.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> SI, you are going all out with rectifiers. Happy days indeed.
> 
> I did not start the EL8 trend. Credit goes to @rnros. With 2 pairs, you could run all EL8 in your amp.
> 
> ...



Hey UT, yup I find rectifiers makes a distinct change in character to the sound and I'm really looking forward to hearing the WE 422A & the Aqua 274B in a GEL3N. 

I'll likely only use the EL8 as drivers and sell the other pair to @whirlwind. Anyway I'm currently running the Sittard GZ34 with EL3N as drivers and EL6 as power tubes. This combo has a fast, punchy sound which matches really well with the Abyss.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> SI, you are going all out with rectifiers. Happy days indeed.
> 
> I did not start the EL8 trend. Credit goes to @rnros. With 2 pairs, you could run all EL8 in your amp.
> 
> ...



Do you want to go with Yamamoto??


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Infinity said:


> Hey UT, yup I find rectifiers makes a distinct change in character to the sound and I'm really looking forward to hearing the WE 422A & the Aqua 274B in a GEL3N.
> 
> I'll likely only use the EL8 as drivers and sell the other pair to @whirlwind. Anyway I'm currently running the Sittard GZ34 with EL3N as drivers and EL6 as power tubes. This combo has a fast, punchy sound which matches really well with the Abyss.



If using the WE422A you really need a adapter to get the best out of it. The 422A has pins 2 and 8 reversed compared to all rectifiers.
Even though it will work without the adapter it will add 5 volts of hum to the B+ voltage.


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> Do you want to go with Yamamoto??



Yanamoto all the way! Those sockets on the GEL3N are smooth! BTW, can I change my rectifier socket to the Yamamoto one?



2359glenn said:


> If using the WE422A you really need a adapter to get the best out of it. The 422A has pins 2 and 8 reversed compared to all rectifiers.
> Even though it will work without the adapter it will add 5 volts of hum to the B+ voltage.



Thanks Glenn, would it damage the tube if I use it without an adapter? Are you able to make the adapter for me?


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Infinity said:


> Yanamoto all the way! Those sockets on the GEL3N are smooth! BTW, can I change my rectifier socket to the Yamamoto one?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Glenn, would it damage the tube if I use it without an adapter? Are you able to make the adapter for me?



It will not heart the tube it will work but to get the lowest noise it needs the adapter.
I will make the adapter for you.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Do you want to go with Yamamoto??



Yes I will go with Yamamoto and my balance headphone socket needs replacement too.


----------



## felix3650

Glenn ever thought on building a balanced OTL amp? Like 2 separate single-channel monoblocks built into the same chassis. Or even 3 separate parts: 2 for the amp circuitry (3 sockets and an XLR output each) and one for the power source with the Lundahl and the driver tubes. Just a thought


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Yes I will go with Yamamoto and my balance headphone socket needs replacement too.



Hello UT...

Single ended XLR socket.  Ground is shared, it is not 'balanced' 

That is wore out, too?


----------



## felix3650

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello UT...
> 
> Single ended XLR socket.  Ground is shared, it is not 'balanced'
> 
> That is wore out, too?


He most probably meant the 4pin XLR as a *balanced connector socket* placed for convenience. The OTL is not a balanced design


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> It will not heart the tube it will work but to get the lowest noise it needs the adapter.
> I will make the adapter for you.


Thanks Glenn, I’ll send you a PM.


----------



## JazzVinyl

felix3650 said:


> He most probably meant the 4pin XLR as a *balanced connector socket* placed for convenience. The OTL is not a balanced design



Yes, I am aware that it not balanced.  Calling it a single ended XLR socket is not correct?  Guess I should have called it "the single ended XLR connector".

In my expirence, adding the word 'balanced', and folks automatically think *it is* a balanced amp.


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> He most probably meant the 4pin XLR as a *balanced connector socket* placed for convenience. The OTL is not a balanced design



Yeah correct. After a few drinks at a Christmas party, I could have written anything.   My headphone cables were terminated with the 4 pins xlr plugs for use in Ragnarok and I continue using that in the GOTL. Too many headphones rolling cause the inner metal piece to slip out half way when I pull out the plug. It's still usable but might as well get it replaced if I'm sending the amp back to Glenn.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> I'll likely only use the EL8 as drivers and sell the other pair to @whirlwind. Anyway I'm currently running the Sittard GZ34 with EL3N as drivers and EL6 as power tubes. This combo has a fast, punchy sound which matches really well with the Abyss.



Looks like a solid setup with those tubes. There are advantages to not being able to tube roll much. You can just get on with listening to music. Using the balanced Jotenheim now, I like the absence of noise, the power of delivery and no tubes to roll. 

I'm changing the sockets of the GOTL not to do more tube rolling. I'll just be using ECC35 or Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6bx7gt when I have it renewed.


----------



## Phantaminum

I thought to post here first (hopefully not breaking forum rules) but if anyone is looking for a pair of Fivre 12SL7s shoot me a PM. I’ll update my signature later offering these for sale. 



UntilThen said:


> Looks like a solid setup with those tubes. There are advantages to not being able to tube roll much. You can just get on with listening to music. Using the balanced Jotenheim now, I like the absence of noise, the power of delivery and no tubes to roll.
> 
> I'm changing the sockets of the GOTL not to do more tube rolling. I'll just be using ECC35 or Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6bx7gt when I have it renewed.



I found myself rolling much more than anticipated and had to buy socket savers. I’m looking at buying socket savers from Tube Monger as the Chinese’s made SS add noise. I can imagine how well made those Yamamotos are built. Good choice UT.


----------



## 2359glenn

felix3650 said:


> Glenn ever thought on building a balanced OTL amp? Like 2 separate single-channel monoblocks built into the same chassis. Or even 3 separate parts: 2 for the amp circuitry (3 sockets and an XLR output each) and one for the power source with the Lundahl and the driver tubes. Just a thought



That would be to expensive.
If you want balanced I would go with transformer output not OTL
Would need 4 amps 2 for the right and 2 for the left for balanced OTL. All these extra parts just make more noise and will increase the output impedance.
I personally feel SE sounds better.

All my amps have a 4 pin XLR and a 1/4" TRS head phone jacks so balanced cables can be used and  has separate grounds from the 4 Pin XLR to the 
main ground buss.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> I'll just be using ECC35 or Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6bx7gt when I have it renewed.


I just got a strong case of deja-vu  Mind you, I'm not one to talk. My tube rolling days were "over" after I purchased the 300B. And then I get an interest in the GOTL...


----------



## dminches

When Glenn built my amp I got a nice set of feet for it and want to buy another set for my reel to reel but I can't remember what I bought originally.

Here's a picture of them.  Do they look familiar to anyone or can you suggest something similar?


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 14, 2018)

UntilThen said:


> Yeah correct. After a few drinks at a Christmas party, I could have written anything.   My headphone cables were terminated with the 4 pins xlr plugs for use in Ragnarok and I continue using that in the GOTL. Too many headphones rolling cause the inner metal piece to slip out half way when I pull out the plug. It's still usable but might as well get it replaced if I'm sending the amp back to Glenn.



On my EL3N amp the inner piece of my XLR connector slips out a bit when I take my phones out of the connector also......it works just fine though.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> On my EL3N amp the inner piece of my XLR connector slips out a bit when I take my phones out of the connector also......it works just fine though.



Ah good to know that I'm not alone in the universe.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 14, 2018)

If you like it Dark and Smooth...here is a tube combo, you'll love.  Especially if you have the old school HD580's (very flat and honest cans) like me 






Listening to the Marcin Wasilewski Trio...darkly and smoothly 

Remove the 6BX7's...gets even darker


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> I just got a strong case of deja-vu  Mind you, I'm not one to talk. My tube rolling days were "over" after I purchased the 300B. And then I get an interest in the GOTL...



Your a gluten for punishment.


----------



## gibosi

I'm rather late to the EL game, but thanks to Deyan's adapters, I now have a pair of Telefunken EL11, manufactured in September, 1951, installed in the C3g sockets. And yes, coupled with Tung-Sol 6BX7 and the Cossor 53KU, this is a very good sound.

Even though this amp was built before running multiple 6BX7 out of two 6AS7 sockets came into vogue, much less various versions of EL installed in the C3g sockets, everything fits.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 14, 2018)

gibosi said:


> I'm rather late to the EL game, but thanks to Deyan's adapters, I now have a pair of Telefunken EL11, manufactured in September, 1951, installed in the C3g sockets. And yes, coupled with Tung-Sol 6BX7 and the Cossor 53KU, this is a very good sound.
> 
> Even though this amp was built before running multiple 6BX7 out of two 6AS7 sockets came into vogue, much less various versions of EL installed in the C3g sockets, everything fits.



Looking good, Ken!!!  I love the idea of adapters for the C3g sockets...makes the tube rabbit hole...all the deeper 

PS - no EL's working here, as one of my Deyan adapters...no good...a replacement is somewhere between here and Bulgaria 
.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> I'm rather late to the EL game, but thanks to Deyan's adapters, I now have a pair of Telefunken EL11, manufactured in September, 1951, installed in the C3g sockets. And yes, coupled with Tung-Sol 6BX7 and the Cossor 53KU, this is a very good sound.
> 
> Even though this amp was built before running multiple 6BX7 out of two 6AS7 sockets came into vogue, much less various versions of EL installed in the C3g sockets, everything fits.



Good to have another confirmation about Telefunken EL11 sound in the OTL. At least my ears aren't deceiving me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Good to have another confirmation about Telefunken EL11 sound in the OTL. At least my ears aren't deceiving me.



Enjoy them while you can UT, as soon you will be banned from toob rollin'....


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Looking good, Ken!!!  I love the idea of adapters for the C3g sockets...makes the tube rabbit hole...all the deeper
> 
> PS - no EL's working here, as one of my Deyan adapters...no good...a replacement is somewhere between here and Bulgaria
> .



I was never interested in running EL tubes through the 6SN7 socket, because the biasing isn't anywhere near correct. But when I saw folks running EL in the C3g sockets, that got my attention!

And yes, just what I need! More tubes to roll! ahaha


----------



## Xcalibur255

JazzVinyl said:


> If you like it Dark and Smooth...here is a tube combo, you'll love.  Especially if you have the old school HD580's (very flat and honest cans) like me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Out of curiosity, why do you have one C3g naked and the other still in its can?  Did one break or fail?

I'm very curious if people who have removed the cans from these tubes can perceive any change in sound after they have done so.  Have you ever tried to compare?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Xcalibur255 said:


> Out of curiosity, why do you have one C3g naked and the other still in its can?  Did one break or fail?
> 
> I'm very curious if people who have removed the cans from these tubes can perceive any change in sound after they have done so.  Have you ever tried to compare?



Hello XC...

Broke one naked C3g recently...mordy made do it!!


 

Haha...

Only had a shielded spare...

When I removed the shields, did so, just for looks/tube glow.

Have not noticed a sonic difference.  In retrospect, probably best to leave the shields on...does provide protection from interference and certainly makes the tube stronger.  c3g glass is known to be rather delicate and fragile...


----------



## leftside (Dec 14, 2018)

As you may have seen in some of my previous posts, I sometimes like to have a digital vs vinyl shootout. I adjust the trim controls on the preamp so the output level from the DAC is the same as the turntable. I then play the same track on the turntable and the DAC at the same time, and use the remote on the preamp to switch between the two.

The Glenn amp is extremely neutral and detailed allowing you to hear all the small differences between the turntable and DAC. A little sativa also helps to focus/hear these differences. Hey, it's legal in the country where I live


----------



## Xcalibur255

Ah, I see.  I probably read that and forgot.  I'm good at that lately.

I pulled the cans off the pair I have been using for the past few years last night.  One of them has noise issues and I was growing tired of hearing it, so I figured why not if I break it no big deal.

I ended up de-canning them successfully, but I swear they sound different now.  The treble range sounds wrong now, flat and thin with no body or depth.  It could just have been me that night too.  My ears have never been the since since the tinnitus began after all.

I read on Jac van der Walle's site that you can kind of "mess up" these tubes while removing the cans by handling them roughly.  Something about deforming the grids from shock and vibration.  I'm not super patient when working with my hands so maybe that's what is going on.  They certainly do look so much better with them off, but it's not worth it if there is a sonic trade-off.  I'd be curious to hear if anybody else has heard what I think I heard last night.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Xcalibur255 said:


> Ah, I see.  I probably read that and forgot.  I'm good at that lately.
> 
> I pulled the cans off the pair I have been using for the past few years last night.  One of them has noise issues and I was growing tired of hearing it, so I figured why not if I break it no big deal.
> 
> ...



I do think the grids are very complicated affairs and I certainly could see rough handling harming them. But safer with the cans on? Hard to tell.  

.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I tried to attach that photo as just a thumbnail, but it would just disappear.....

I swear I'm just getting dumber as I get older.

You can see exactly where I stopped wiping off the dust in that photo too.  Oops.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> As you may have seen in some of my previous posts, I sometimes like to have a digital vs vinyl shootout. I adjust the trim controls on the preamp so the output level from the DAC is the same as the turntable. I then play the same track on the turntable and the DAC at the same time, and use the remote on the preamp to switch between the two.
> 
> The Glenn amp is extremely neutral and detailed allowing you to hear all the small differences between the turntable and DAC. A little sativa also helps to focus/hear these differences. Hey, it's legal in the country where I live



So what is your conclusion regarding the difference, LS?

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UT said earlier that he was glad he was “not alone in the universe...”

Reminded me that the Voyager 2 (launched in 1977) left the heliosphere of our sun in November this year, and is traversing interstellar space. 

Voyager 1 (also launched in 1977) left the suns heliosphere 6 years prior, in 2012. 

Voyager 1 is traveling interstellar space at approx 100,000 miles per hour, but will not approach another stars’ heliosphere for 40,000 years!!  And will be “somewhere” in orbit in the Milky Way for billions of years.  

Now consider the thought that the Milky Way is but one of billions of galaxies...


----------



## UntilThen

A storm just came through and took out the neighbourhood power. Now I am really alone in the universe.

This happen when I was tightening my socket clips. Inside each socket there is a clip - a female receptacle with a slit in the middle. I use a small flat screw driver to tighten this clip. Now the tubes goes in and is held firmly but I have no power to test it !!!


----------



## UntilThen

I’m thinking of Jeff Lynne’s ELO song ‘Alone in the universe’ by the way.


----------



## lukeap69

EL8 sounds really good but the noise can't be left unnoticed. I am not sure if I have a bad pair of EL8 as I have only one pair or the adapters. Anyway, sound is very promising i.e. enjoyable. EL8 sounds more 'tubey' compared to C3g IMO. Bass seems bigger at the expense of slightly less sparkle up top which I reckon is good for HD800. I will continue using them hoping the noise will go away after sometime whilst waiting for my EL11's.


----------



## Monsterzero

Need another tube rec from the experts:

Recently picked up a gorgeous ZMF Bocote Auteur,and the 6BX7s are just too bright for them.
Looking for something warm,big TIGHT bass and not stupid expensive.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> EL8 sounds really good but the noise can't be left unnoticed. I am not sure if I have a bad pair of EL8 as I have only one pair or the adapters. Anyway, sound is very promising i.e. enjoyable. EL8 sounds more 'tubey' compared to C3g IMO. Bass seems bigger at the expense of slightly less sparkle up top which I reckon is good for HD800. I will continue using them hoping the noise will go away after sometime whilst waiting for my EL11's.



What noise are you getting? Are you getting scratching, crackles?


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> What noise are you getting? Are you getting scratching, crackles?


Nope, the noise is like sound of a motor  or compressor continuously running but far away which make not loud but at the same time noticeable. It can be buried in the music but can be annoying on silent part of the music. Apologies for the analogy of it is not that clear, I am an engineer, hence the motor reference.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Need another tube rec from the experts:
> 
> Recently picked up a gorgeous ZMF Bocote Auteur,and the 6BX7s are just too bright for them.
> Looking for something warm,big TIGHT bass and not stupid expensive.



The Auteurs with the Auteur pads are bright when paired with the 6BX7s. Switching out to the Eikon perforated pads mitigates some of the top end. Really, I think there’s a peak that causes people discomfort.

I’d try that first. Driver tube recommendations that work well with the Auteurs+Eikon pads: NU 6C8G/12SN7, RCA 6C8G/12SN7/12SL7, Sylvania 6C8G/12SN7/12SL7. The ECC35s I believe are almost perfect.

If you really enjoy the Auteur pads I found that 6AS7G power tubes are warmer and helps with the peaks.

I’ll leave the rectifier recommendations to other people as I have the Hexfred rectifiers. Hope this helps.


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 15, 2018)

lukeap69 said:


> EL8 sounds really good but the noise can't be left unnoticed. I am not sure if I have a bad pair of EL8 as I have only one pair or the adapters. Anyway, sound is very promising i.e. enjoyable. EL8 sounds more 'tubey' compared to C3g IMO. Bass seems bigger at the expense of slightly less sparkle up top which I reckon is good for HD800. I will continue using them hoping the noise will go away after sometime whilst waiting for my EL11's.



I have not heard the EL8 yet, but you just described the way I see the EL3N sound vs the C3g sound
EL3N bass is so easy to listen to and you want to keep turning it up....sound like EL8 is the same way.
C3g transparency at it's finest....more sparkle up top compared to EL3N

Love them both and by today's tube prices these are tough to beat.

As far as the noise, give them time...if they are NOS they have been just sitting around for like 60 some odd years!
As far as adapter noise, who knows.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> I have not heard the EL8 yet, but you just described the way I see the EL3N sound vs the C3g sound
> EL3N bass is so easy to listen to and you want to keep turning it up....sound like EL8 is the same way.
> C3g transparency at it's finest....more sparkle up top compared to EL3N
> 
> ...



Yes, that's how I describe the difference Joe and I am quite thrilled about it. I hope that the noise goes away after some time of using them. It is so nice to have an alternate sound sig with the C3g.


----------



## lukeap69

The sound seems warmer with EL8 and the notes rounder. This doesn't indicate loss of definition at all. I am listening to Enya's Only Time at the moment and it is just magical. I wish this noise will go away after some time as this may be the only thing that will keep the EL8 in my GOTL from being the mainstay. The EL8/6BX7 pairing is a wonderful combo. The lower gain of the EL8 versus the C3g is also a bonus. So if the EL sockets will be a new addition to the OTL configuration, the new owners of GOTL will be very fortunate!


----------



## Sound Trooper (Dec 15, 2018)

So...... the Aqua 274B arrived today ahead of schedule and I must really commend Sophia Electric for the super fast service.

First impression is that how massive the Aqua 274B tube is! Here are 2 picturess for reference. The eye-catching Aqua 274B dwarfs the small (but mighty) Sittard GZ34. But it remains to see if it can best the superb GZ34 in terms of sound.


----------



## attmci

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/132879225637


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Need another tube rec from the experts:
> 
> Recently picked up a gorgeous ZMF Bocote Auteur,and the 6BX7s are just too bright for them.
> Looking for something warm,big TIGHT bass and not stupid expensive.



The 6BL7 tubes have more bass and are warmer than 6Bx7's...


----------



## Sound Trooper

Gosh! The Aqua 274B sounds really nice with the ZMF Auteur. Vocals are hauntingly beautiful and there is a nice sense of space in between instruments. The 274B does sound slightly more euphoric in the mids when compared to the GZ34 and this makes listening on the Auteur very enjoyable indeed.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/132879225637



 Hahahaha....


----------



## JazzVinyl

lukeap69 said:


> EL8 sounds really good but the noise can't be left unnoticed. I am not sure if I have a bad pair of EL8 as I have only one pair or the adapters. Anyway, sound is very promising i.e. enjoyable. EL8 sounds more 'tubey' compared to C3g IMO. Bass seems bigger at the expense of slightly less sparkle up top which I reckon is good for HD800. I will continue using them hoping the noise will go away after sometime whilst waiting for my EL11's.



Which adapters do you have?


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> So what is your conclusion regarding the difference, LS?
> .


Imagine two identical paintings next to one another. As you look at these paintings longer, you notice they are not actually identical. The one on the right has slightly more vibrance and the colours are a shade deeper/bolder. The one on the right is the turntable. This was with high quality lossless digital files and mint vinyl cleaned ultra-sonically. Massive Attack Mezzanine and Heligoland. 

With my previous vinyl rig from last year (VPI Scoutmaster Signature + Dynavector 20x2L) I was giving the preference to the DAC most of the time.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> The sound seems warmer with EL8 and the notes rounder. This doesn't indicate loss of definition at all. I am listening to Enya's Only Time at the moment and it is just magical. I wish this noise will go away after some time as this may be the only thing that will keep the EL8 in my GOTL from being the mainstay. The EL8/6BX7 pairing is a wonderful combo. The lower gain of the EL8 versus the C3g is also a bonus. So if the EL sockets will be a new addition to the OTL configuration, the new owners of GOTL will be very fortunate!



That's unfortunate about the noise. Mine was quiet right at the start for a week until my amp started developing the scratches, pops and crackles. I'll have to send my amp back to Glenn after the Christmas season.

EL8 with 6BX7 is a wonderful pairing. The same goes with EL11 and EL13.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Infinity said:


> So...... the Aqua 274B arrived today ahead of schedule and I must really commend Sophia Electric for the super fast service.



That was really fast delivery. Where did you order it from? Lovely tube and amp.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> The Auteurs with the Auteur pads are bright when paired with the 6BX7s. Switching out to the Eikon perforated pads mitigates some of the top end. Really, I think there’s a peak that causes people discomfort.



Yep tried that last night prior to posting,didnt help.



Phantaminum said:


> I’d try that first. Driver tube recommendations that work well with the Auteurs+Eikon pads: NU 6C8G/12SN7, RCA 6C8G/12SN7/12SL7, Sylvania 6C8G/12SN7/12SL7. The ECC35s I believe are almost perfect.


Im using a TS 6SN7GT RP,which is the warmest driver I own. Is that still considered bright? Its def warmer than my C3G and my other tubes(forget which one)



Phantaminum said:


> If you really enjoy the Auteur pads I found that 6AS7G power tubes are warmer and helps with the peaks.



Any specific ones you recommend?

How about a pair of Cetron 6336b? Those were rec'd to me for my incoming Verite,and would be nice if I didnt have to buy an extra set of tubes for the auteur.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Im using a TS 6SN7GT RP,which is the warmest driver I own. Is that still considered bright? Its def warmer than my C3G and my other tubes(forget which one)
> 
> Any specific ones you recommend?
> 
> How about a pair of Cetron 6336b? Those were rec'd to me for my incoming Verite,and would be nice if I didnt have to buy an extra set of tubes for the auteur.



I certainly don't consider the TS to be warm, but fairly neutral.

Since they are not all that expensive, I would recommend a gray-glass RCA 6SN7GT for a warm driver. And a pair of RCA 6AS7G for warm outputs. Again, these are not expensive and more importantly, they would provide you with reference points.


----------



## Monsterzero (Dec 15, 2018)

gibosi said:


> I certainly don't consider the TS to be warm, but fairly neutral.
> 
> Since they are not all that expensive, I would recommend a gray-glass RCA 6SN7GT for a warm driver. And a pair of RCA 6AS7G for warm outputs. Again, these are not expensive and more importantly, they would provide you with reference points.



Thanks,I will look into those.

Any opinions on the Cetrons?

My tube selection thus far has mainly been tailored towards driving my Atticus,which is currently up for sale.
The Verite isnt as warm as the Atticus,but def warmer than Auteur.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Im using a TS 6SN7GT RP,which is the warmest driver I own. Is that still considered bright? Its def warmer than my C3G and my other tubes(forget which one)



It's the driver. That driver works beautifully in the MCTH (it's quite warm and the top end rolls off slightly) but on GOTL it's brighter than most other tubes I own. I had to re-asses what tubes would work with the Auteurs in Glenn's amp after I purchased it. I have a strong suspicion that the Tung Sols are going pair nicely with the Verites. 

Shoot me a PM. I have a RCA 12SN7 that I'll send your way at no charge.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks,I will look into those.
> 
> Any opinions on the Cetrons?
> 
> ...



The Cetrons are fairly neutral and found that the 6BX7s have a better synergy with the Auteurs. Give them a try regardless as you may enjoy them. One combo I enjoyed with the Cetrons was the RCA 12SN7.


----------



## gibosi (Dec 15, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks,I will look into those.
> 
> Any opinions on the Cetrons?



I agree, in my opinion the Cetron/Tung-Sol/Chatham 6336B is a fairly neutral tube.

Also, just for grins, if your amp uses 5-volt rectifiers, you might want to try an RCA 5U4GB.

Edit: I should add, the coke-bottle RCA 5U4G is not powerful enough to run the GOTL with a pair of 6AS7G, but the newer straight bottle 5U4GB is fine.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> The Cetrons are fairly neutral



Bingo. Correct assessment here.

Not having a working GOTL is bad case of withdrawal. When it's daylight, I have to get the La Figaro 339 back from my son.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Bingo. Correct assessment here.
> 
> Not having a working GOTL is bad case of withdrawal. When it's daylight, I have to get the La Figaro 339 back from my son.



Mustve missed something...What happened to your GOTL?


----------



## lukeap69

JazzVinyl said:


> Which adapters do you have?


Deyan's.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Imagine two identical paintings next to one another. As you look at these paintings longer, you notice they are not actually identical. The one on the right has slightly more vibrance and the colours are a shade deeper/bolder. The one on the right is the turntable. This was with high quality lossless digital files and mint vinyl cleaned ultra-sonically. Massive Attack Mezzanine and Heligoland.
> 
> With my previous vinyl rig from last year (VPI Scoutmaster Signature + Dynavector 20x2L) I was giving the preference to the DAC most of the time.



What is your current table?

What I find with the table/vinyl is that the sense of space/sound stage is greatly enhanced via Vinyl.

I had some folks over one day, and we listened to a vinyl vs CD of a certain tune that was known to be well recorded.

Right towards the end of the piece, a fellow comes in on a triangle and is stage left and behind you.

With the Vinyl, everyone in the room, turned thier heads to SEE this fellow...the placement in the sound stage is so precise.
Sounds like he is really there, and in the room.

The CD...sounds good, everything sounds like it should, is correct in every way, but the sound stage is not as 3D. 
The triangle player comes in, but you don't have the feeling that he is really in the room, and behind you.


----------



## Xcalibur255

IMO the safest bet if you want to mellow out your high end a bit is the "bad boy" '52 Sylvania 6SN7GT.  Just about every t-plate Sylvania tube from the 50's gets called this by sellers now so it can be a challenge to get a real one, but if you want your tone to be mellow without sounding veiled this tube does it better than any other to my ears.

The RCA greyglass and the National Union blackglass are also good candidates.  I find these tubes change in sound pretty dramatically depending upon how hard they are run.  Both tubes have a reputation for being mellow but they can flip to being fairly bright with an aggressive operating point.  The NU especially, it goes from dark to bright with more plate voltage.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> What is your current table?


VPI Prime Signature. I obtained an open box demo unit about this time last year.

As long as the turntable/cart is of similar quality to the CD player/DAC then it's a fair comparison.


----------



## whirlwind

Yes RCA 6AS7G are warm for power tubes...also Mullard 6080 tubes may be a good choice, but a little more expensive than RCA 6AS7G


----------



## JazzVinyl

lukeap69 said:


> Deyan's.



Have you tried other power tubes?

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Yes RCA 6AS7G are warm for power tubes...also Mullard 6080 tubes may be a good choice, but a little more expensive than RCA 6AS7G



I love my mullard 6080’s - for just that reason.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> I had some folks over one day, and we listened to a vinyl vs CD of a certain tune that was known to be well recorded.


What do you friends think of the GOTL/tubes? They are always a conversation piece if I have friends over.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> What do you friends think of the GOTL/tubes? They are always a conversation piece if I have friends over.



I don't have anyone locally, who appreciates it.

They politely smile, but it does not seem to fascinate them...


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> I certainly don't consider the TS to be warm, but fairly neutral.
> 
> Since they are not all that expensive, I would recommend a gray-glass RCA 6SN7GT for a warm driver. And a pair of RCA 6AS7G for warm outputs. Again, these are not expensive and more importantly, they would provide you with reference points.



Try the RCA 1633 it is a 1940s gray glass RCA and only costs $4


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Mustve missed something...What happened to your GOTL?



My GOTL starts up with crackles, pops and hiss - possibly due to loose pins contact, which in turn is due to too much tube rolling but what would I know. It will be send back to Glenn for diagnosis and likely sockets replacement. 

So look after your amp mate. In the interim I'll get to play with LF339.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Yes RCA 6AS7G are warm for power tubes...also Mullard 6080 tubes may be a good choice, but a little more expensive than RCA 6AS7G


RCA seem to be a little warm across their entire range of tubes. I have RCA 12ax7 long black plates and they are probably the warmest 12ax7 I have.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> My GOTL starts up with crackles, pops and hiss - possibly due to loose pins contact, which in turn is due to too much tube rolling but what would I know. It will be send back to Glenn for diagnosis and likely sockets replacement.
> 
> So look after your amp mate. In the interim I'll get to play with LF339.



Hey UT, hope it’s nothing serious. Look on the bright side, at least you will be getting the Yamamoto sockets.


----------



## gibosi

@Monsterzero

Per XC's recommendation, some info on the Sylvania "Bad Boy":




https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-6sn7-identification-guide.209782/

I would add that I have seen examples of Bad Boys as late as early 1953.

*Sylvania 6SN7GT 1952 “Bad Boy” *
_Also JAN-CHS-6SN7GT
Made only from late 1951 (‘1-48’ examples seen) to 1952. Differs slightly in construction from ‘regular’ Sylvania rectangular top mica 6SN7GTs. Re-labeled bad boys are known to exist._
Base: black, green labels marked ‘2-XX’ (where XX is the week of the year)
Glass: clear
Plates: black, T-plate with 3 holes per plate
Getter: bottom, foil, flashing can extend up to 1/3 of way up tube
Top mica: rectangular with 3 spikes on each of the shorter edges
Other significant features: bottom mica is rectangular. When seen, date codes are vertically arranged (from top to bottom) ‘YWW’ with Y underlined. Y = last digit of year, WW = week number of year.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Try the RCA 1633 it is a 1940s gray glass RCA and only costs $4



Right-o!!

You don't need super expensive or exotic tubes in the GOTL to get great sound!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> My GOTL starts up with crackles, pops and hiss - possibly due to loose pins contact, which in turn is due to too much tube rolling but what would I know. It will be send back to Glenn for diagnosis and likely sockets replacement.
> 
> So look after your amp mate. In the interim I'll get to play with LF339.



Luck in getting it back to 100%, UT.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Luck in getting it back to 100%, UT.



Thanks. It will have to wait till 2019 until the festive rush is over.

It has been a good year with GOTL. I have use it a 110% and will no doubt miss the sound of 6 x 6bx7.

Going to pick up the La Figaro now.


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> ...
> Any opinions on the Cetrons?



Hi MZ, agree with the other comments, Cetron 6336B is a neutral tube.
Also natural, clean, open, dynamic and highly resolving.
As always, have to hear and judge for yourself.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Thanks. It will have to wait till 2019 until the festive rush is over.
> 
> It has been a good year with GOTL. I have use it a 110% and will no doubt miss the sound of 6 x 6bx7.
> 
> Going to pick up the La Figaro now.



Sorry to hear about that, UT. Good that you have other amps to use in the interim.
I thought you were only having problems using certain adapters in the C3g sockets.
But it will be nice to have the GOTL returned with upgraded sockets.
Good luck with the whole process, just a nuisance to have to wait for the holiday rush to pass.


----------



## Monsterzero

rnros said:


> Hi MZ, agree with the other comments, Cetron 6336B is a neutral tube.
> Also natural, clean, open, dynamic and highly resolving.
> As always, have to hear and judge for yourself.



How would you rate the slam on them 1-10?
These were originally brought to my attention for the Verite,as the 6BX7s added too much slam to my ears/gears.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> How would you rate the slam on them 1-10?
> These were originally brought to my attention for the Verite,as the 6BX7s added too much slam to my ears/gears.



Sounds like the Verite’s do not like tube amps?

I don’t think the 6BX7’s are known for humongous slam?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Thanks. It will have to wait till 2019 until the festive rush is over.
> 
> It has been a good year with GOTL. I have use it a 110% and will no doubt miss the sound of 6 x 6bx7.
> 
> Going to pick up the La Figaro now.



I think it is best to use good socket savers and leave them in. Only switch tubes in the socket savers and never remove them from the amp unil when they 
wear out.
Something like these
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-EL34-GZ3...=item41eb1f9afd:g:l8UAAOSw9elbfLWY:rk:25:pf:0


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Sounds like the Verite’s do not like tube amps?
> 
> I don’t think the 6BX7’s are known for humongous slam?



I wouldnt agree with that statement at all. The Verite sounds brilliant thru the GOTL.
I dont really know/understand what was causing the issue that I was hearing,but when I took the 6BX7s out of the amp,the problem went away.
The problem was,for me,that the slam wasnt decaying fast enough and was drowning out the imaging.
Perhaps the 6BX7s were over driving the Verite? IDK.


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> How would you rate the slam on them 1-10?
> These were originally brought to my attention for the Verite,as the 6BX7s added too much slam to my ears/gears.



Easily a 10... But I want to clarify that... 10 for capability, 10 for accuracy, 0 for exaggeration.



Monsterzero said:


> I wouldnt agree with that statement at all. The Verite sounds brilliant thru the GOTL.
> I dont really know/understand what was causing the issue that I was hearing,but when I took the 6BX7s out of the amp,the problem went away.
> The problem was,for me,that the slam wasnt decaying fast enough and was drowning out the imaging.
> Perhaps the 6BX7s were over driving the Verite? IDK.



That makes more sense to me. Not so much the transient slam itself. Your description is a good one.
I have had some 6BX7s that were not as clean as I would like at the low end. 
You could try the RCA clear tops from the early 60s. The Tung Sols also seem accurate, but only listened a few times.
As for the CTN 6336Bs, they are clean/accurate.


----------



## JazzVinyl

rnros said:


> I thought you were only having problems using certain adapters in the C3g sockets.



This was my understanding too. Is it thought now, that the EL tubes run in the GOTL caused damage to the amp?

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> I wouldnt agree with that statement at all. The Verite sounds brilliant thru the GOTL.
> I dont really know/understand what was causing the issue that I was hearing,but when I took the 6BX7s out of the amp,the problem went away.
> The problem was,for me,that the slam wasnt decaying fast enough and was drowning out the imaging.
> Perhaps the 6BX7s were over driving the Verite? IDK.



Are the Verite’s low impedance cans?

Which powers proved better? Did you try fewer 6BX7’s? How about 6BL7?


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Are the Verite’s low impedance cans?
> 
> Which powers proved better? Did you try fewer 6BX7’s? How about 6BL7?



Like all ZMF dynamic headphones,the Verite is 300ohms.
I did try fewer BX7s,but it did not help. Even tried different combos of the 6BX7s,thinking perhaps one or more was "bad". Same results.
I do not own any 6BL7s. Ive been told many times they have even more gain then the 6BX7s. As is I am only able to get about 9:00-10:00 on volume dial,and dont want to have even less play on the volume knob.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> I wouldnt agree with that statement at all. The Verite sounds brilliant thru the GOTL.
> I dont really know/understand what was causing the issue that I was hearing,but when I took the 6BX7s out of the amp,the problem went away.
> The problem was,for me,that the slam wasnt decaying fast enough and was drowning out the imaging.
> Perhaps the 6BX7s were over driving the Verite? IDK.



Sounds like the special materials that compose verite drivers, are faster thean what the tube delivered?

So speed, instead of slam?

.


----------



## Monsterzero

rnros said:


> Easily a 10... But I want to clarify that... 10 for capability, 10 for accuracy, 0 for exaggeration.



They sound like they'd be good for the Verite,not so much for Auteur. Im not a basshead,but I do enjoy some slam.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Sounds like the special materials that compose verite drivers, are faster thean what the tube delivered?
> 
> So speed, instead of slam?
> 
> .



Perhaps,but that theory is a bit above my security clearance.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Perhaps,but that theory is a bit above my security clearance.



Just out of curiosity, tried them with a good SS amp?


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> This was my understanding too. Is it thought now, that the EL tubes run in the GOTL caused damage to the amp?
> 
> .


I hope not. As I have a bunch of EL tubes and adapters arriving from Europe next year. I thought it was the amount of tube rolling with lower quality adapters that caused the problem.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> I hope not. As I have a bunch of EL tubes and adapters arriving from Europe next year. I thought it was the amount of tube rolling with lower quality adapters that caused the problem.



I hope not too, as I have stuff inbound as well


----------



## rnros

JazzVinyl said:


> This was my understanding too. Is it thought now, that the EL tubes run in the GOTL caused damage to the amp?
> 
> .



I've had zero issues with EL8 and EL3N. Amp is perfect.


----------



## JazzVinyl

rnros said:


> I've had zero issues with EL8 and EL3N. Amp is perfect.



Good to know!

Adapted using the SN7, or C3g?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Approved!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

A brief public service announcement to all of the C3g tube users here.  I've spent the weekend comparing both of my sets of "naked" tubes with the shield cans removed with the ones that are normal and still have their can.  This includes an excellent before and after listening session on the pair I just removed the shields from.  I had been using those tubes in the amp for years and their sound was very stable.

I've come to the conclusion that removing the cans from these tubes has a substantially negative impact on their sound quality.  It mostly manifests in the treble range, which becomes slightly more harsh and takes on more of a dry and flat quality.  Glenn has informed me that although the ground pin connection for the shield doesn't share an electrical connection with the pins directly there is in fact capacitance between the can and the plate of the tube.  The removal of this capacitance appears to be detrimental to the performance of the tube.

Considering companies like Yamamoto Soundcraft remove the shields from these tubes by default prior to shipping them to customers I wouldn't have thought there would be consequences to doing so, but my listening impressions have been consistent.  I consider the tubes I removed the cans from to be basically ruined, and I would encourage anybody wanting to remove these in the name of making the tube look prettier to just let it go and leave the can in place.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> This was my understanding too. Is it thought now, that the EL tubes run in the GOTL caused damage to the amp?
> 
> .



Damage what? very little to get damaged.
The only thing that could get damaged is a 22K ohm 2 watt resistor could have got cooked but not likely. And that would be easy to see if burned.
And I don't think it would make scratchy sounds. Most likely the tube sockets are worn out.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Damage what? very little to get damaged.
> The only thing that could get damaged is a 22K ohm 2 watt resistor could have got cooked but not likely. And that would be easy to see if burned.
> And I don't think it would make scratchy sounds. Most likely the tube sockets are worn out.



Hello Glenn...

You said earlier that trying an 'out of spec tube' would not damage anything, the most negative consequence would be that it would not sound good.
And I completely agree with that sentiment.

I am sorry that UT is having trouble.  I too, was surprised when went from scratchy noises when using the C3g socket adapted to EL tubes, to needing to send the whole amp back to you.

We do know Mordy reported the same scratchy sounds from EL adapted to C3g,  and he has used socket savers all along, I believe...

Guess we will know the exact nature of the problem, when you get UT's amp back for a health check...

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Xcalibur255 said:


> A brief public service announcement to all of the C3g tube users here.  I've spent the weekend comparing both of my sets of "naked" tubes with the shield cans removed with the ones that are normal and still have their can.  This includes an excellent before and after listening session on the pair I just removed the shields from.  I had been using those tubes in the amp for years and their sound was very stable.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion that removing the cans from these tubes has a substantially negative impact on their sound quality.  It mostly manifests in the treble range, which becomes slightly more harsh and takes on more of a dry and flat quality.  Glenn has informed me that although the ground pin connection for the shield doesn't share an electrical connection with the pins directly there is in fact capacitance between the can and the plate of the tube.  The removal of this capacitance appears to be detrimental to the performance of the tube.
> 
> Considering companies like Yamamoto Soundcraft remove the shields from these tubes by default prior to shipping them to customers I wouldn't have thought there would be consequences to doing so, but my listening impressions have been consistent.  I consider the tubes I removed the cans from to be basically ruined, and I would encourage anybody wanting to remove these in the name of making the tube look prettier to just let it go and leave the can in place.



Interesting, XC!!

I need one more C3g, to replace my broken, naked one, will definitely be leaving the shield ON this time!

Appreciate!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Glenn...
> 
> You said earlier that trying an 'out of spec tube' would not damage anything, the most negative consequence would be that it would not sound good.
> And I completely agree with that sentiment.
> ...


Hi JV,
I need to clarify that the only scratchy noises that I have gotten from EL tubes came from EL32 with Chinese adapters in combination with 6BX7 tubes.
At one point my amp acted up after removing the EL32 tubes with pops and loud clicks. (Everything went away with different drivers.)
Using the EL32 with BL tubes eliminated the noise with the exception that moving the volume control generated scratchy noises that stop as soon as I stop turning the volume control.
I cannot figure out why I have these problems with the EL32 pentodes that only draw 0.2A each. Another strange thing is that these problems only show up after a while and not right away.
Incompatibility with GOTL?
Incompatibility with 6BX7?
Something wrong with the Chinese adapters?
Bottom line is that I am refraining from using the EL32 tubes for the time being.
Re socket savers I only use one for the 6SN7 socket because the cheap Chinese socket savers I had on hand introduced a lot of hum and connecting problems in the beginning when I got the GOTL.
Tried some other socket savers but they were too tight and too difficult to use. Awaiting better socket savers....


----------



## gibosi

Just another data point. I have had my OTL since the spring of 2015. And I suspect that very few people, if any, have rolled more tubes through their amp than I have, and that includes old and new versions of Telefunken, Siemens and Lorenz C3g, as well as more than 50 different rectifiers. I have never had a problem with the sockets in this amp, and I have never used socket savers.... But as always, YMMV.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> I need to clarify that the only scratchy noises that I have gotten from EL tubes came from EL32 with Chinese adapters in combination with 6BX7 tubes.
> At one point my amp acted up after removing the EL32 tubes with pops and loud clicks. (Everything went away with different drivers.)
> Using the EL32 with BL tubes eliminated the noise with the exception that moving the volume control generated scratchy noises that stop as soon as I stop turning the volume control.
> ...



Thanks for the clarifications, Mordy...

Your amp acting up with pops and loud clicks after removing EL32's is the most mysterious part....

Is it true that all your EL adventures were conducted via the C3g sockets...?


----------



## mordy

Hi Glenn,
Are these the real thing?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/50-vacuum-...h=item260d8481e4:g:UhYAAOSw76lcFr5a:rk:3:pf:0


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Thanks for the clarifications, Mordy...
> 
> Your amp acting up with pops and loud clicks after removing EL32's is the most mysterious part....
> 
> Is it true that all your EL adventures were conducted via the C3g sockets...?


Only used C3g sockets for EL tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> Are these the real thing?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/50-vacuum-...h=item260d8481e4:g:UhYAAOSw76lcFr5a:rk:3:pf:0



They look real to me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Just another data point. I have had my OTL since the spring of 2015. And I suspect that very few people, if any, have rolled more tubes through their amp than I have, and that includes old and new versions of Telefunken, Siemens and Lorenz C3g, as well as more than 50 different rectifiers. I have never had a problem with the sockets in this amp, and I have never used socket savers.... But as always, YMMV.



You probably have more experience rolling C3g than anybody here.  In your opinion are the non-Siemens tubes worth the extra money they go for?  At some point I need to replace the tubes I de-canned since I don't consider them worth listening to anymore, but I've only ever bought the Siemens because they're a known quantity.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Like all ZMF dynamic headphones,the Verite is 300ohms.
> I did try fewer BX7s,but it did not help. Even tried different combos of the 6BX7s,thinking perhaps one or more was "bad". Same results.
> I do not own any 6BL7s. Ive been told many times they have even more gain then the 6BX7s. As is I am only able to get about 9:00-10:00 on volume dial,and dont want to have even less play on the volume knob.


Can you try to use a plugin, and turn down the gain (i.e. -2dB)?


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> You probably have more experience rolling C3g than anybody here.  In your opinion are the non-Siemens tubes worth the extra money they go for?  At some point I need to replace the tubes I de-canned since I don't consider them worth listening to anymore, but I've only ever bought the Siemens because they're a known quantity.



My gut feeling is that since you know and like the Siemens, you should stick with them. In my opinion, the Telefunkens sound almost identical to the Siemens, except for a tiny bit more treble emphasis, and are not worth the extra money they typically go for. On the other hand, the Lorenz (the older flat black embossed cans) sound very different than the Siemens. However, I certainly wouldn't say that they are better. But if you think you would like to explore a somewhat darker tone, they just might be worth getting as a second pair. This would give you two very different sounding drivers to play with.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Thanks, that helps give me a direction.  I'm not sure if I like the Siemens because I *like* them or because I'm very used to them.    I have found, though, that if I do anything at all to disturb this system..... unplug anything, change a tube, etc..... I find I cannot enjoy it at all until it runs for 18-24 hours and settles back in.  Especially the treble range, I'm not sure if I have a really good ear for it or it's all just psychoacoustic and I'm imagining it but I can hear this unnatural edge or sheen that just ruins the music for me.  This is why I basically quit rolling tubes, because it didn't feel worth making the system not sound good until I waited out the clock over and over again.

I actually meant to do more testing with the unshielded tubes, but just tonight the amp finally is sounding right again and it bothers me when it isn't so my curiosity will have to be set aside for now.

I think a pair of Lorenz might work nicely with the Ethers.  I've been listening to the LCD-2 a lot again since I got the new cable for it and they seem to have very nice synergy with the Siemens.  The price of these tubes seems to be climbing pretty steadily as supply drops so I feel a certain pressure to figure out what I need and get it on hand sooner rather than later.


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> A brief public service announcement to all of the C3g tube users here.  I've spent the weekend comparing both of my sets of "naked" tubes with the shield cans removed with the ones that are normal and still have their can.  This includes an excellent before and after listening session on the pair I just removed the shields from.  I had been using those tubes in the amp for years and their sound was very stable.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion that removing the cans from these tubes has a substantially negative impact on their sound quality.  It mostly manifests in the treble range, which becomes slightly more harsh and takes on more of a dry and flat quality.  Glenn has informed me that although the ground pin connection for the shield doesn't share an electrical connection with the pins directly there is in fact capacitance between the can and the plate of the tube.  The removal of this capacitance appears to be detrimental to the performance of the tube.
> 
> Considering companies like Yamamoto Soundcraft remove the shields from these tubes by default prior to shipping them to customers I wouldn't have thought there would be consequences to doing so, but my listening impressions have been consistent.  I consider the tubes I removed the cans from to be basically ruined, and I would encourage anybody wanting to remove these in the name of making the tube look prettier to just let it go and leave the can in place.



Interesting.  I have left the shields on all of my C3g tubes, just because I felt that the shield should help make them quieter.


----------



## whirlwind

I have used these tube monger socket savers in my amp at times.....they seem to  be made in high quality.....not sure they are any better than any others or if they are worth the price however.
They are made in Japan.




  


https://www.tubemonger.com/Tubemonger_Accesories_s/78.htm


----------



## rnros

JazzVinyl said:


> Good to know!
> 
> Adapted using the SN7, or C3g?



6SN7


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> I have used these tube monger socket savers in my amp at times.....they seem to  be made in high quality.....not sure they are any better than any others or if they are worth the price however.
> They are made in Japan.
> 
> 
> ...


I have no problem with those cheap socket savers.

BTW, did people in 50s looking for better tubes (tube rolling) to improve the quality of their tube TVs? 

JK


----------



## rnros (Dec 17, 2018)

attmci said:


> I have no problem with those cheap socket savers.
> 
> BTW, did people in 50s looking for better tubes (tube rolling) to improve the quality of their tube TVs?
> 
> JK



Of course, they did... When the TV died. 
You pulled all the tubes, if you were lucky, the tube tester at the hardware store was working, purchased the needed replacement tube.
Went home, plugged in the tubes, crossed fingers and turned the TV on.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 17, 2018)

rnros said:


> Of course, they did... When the TV died.
> You pulled all the tubes, if you were lucky, the tube tester at the hardware store was working, purchased the needed replacement tube.
> Went home, plugged in the tubes, crossed fingers and turned the TV on.



Or you called the mobile repair guy, who came to your house with a large case containing hundreds of tubes...who finds and replaces the offending valve. 

If the set was “really sick” and something had to be ordered.  You were sadly going to miss an episode or two of “I Love Lucy” and goodness forbid, Jackie Gleason and Art Carney in: “The Honeymooners” 



.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Or you called the mobile repair guy, who came to your house with a large case containing hundreds of tubes...who finds and replaces the offending valve.
> 
> If the set was “really sick” and something had to be ordered.  You were sadly going to miss an episode or two of “I Love Lucy” and goodness forbid, Jackie Gleason and Art Carney in: “The Honeymooners”
> 
> ...



I use to run service calls for my father, and I carried one of those big tube caddies...was pretty heavy with all the tools and a bunch of tubes.


----------



## Phantaminum (Dec 17, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> I use to run service calls for my father, and I carried one of those big tube caddies...was pretty heavy with all the tools and a bunch of tubes.



A young WW with a caddy full of tubes, wind in his hair, and not a care in the world. Start of the legend.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> A young WW with a caddy full of tubes, wind in his hair, and not a care in the worof. Start of the legend.



Ha, yeah I was pretty young. Helped my father from my late teens on, for about 15 years. Probably could not hardly lift that tube caddy today,  LOL.


----------



## Phantaminum (Dec 17, 2018)

whirlwind said:


> Ha, yeah I was pretty young. Helped my father from my late teens on, for about 15 years. Probably could not hardly lift that tube caddy today,  LOL.



A few weeks ago the wife and I went to a wedding and I decided to get on the dance floor. After cutting it up and getting low (The twister came on), I couldn’t get out of bed the next day. My poor back.

My wife could not help but laugh at me while giving me a healthy dose of Beyers.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> A few weeks ago the wife and I went to a wedding and I decided to get on the dance floor. After cutting it up and getting low (The twister came on), I couldn’t get out of bed the next day. My poor back.
> 
> My wife could not help but laugh at me while giving me a healthy dose of Beyers.



Ha....Twister, great stuff!

At this point I just have a monthly chiropractic visit....and it seems to work out pretty well. Usually something is bothering me by that time.
Not complaining though, as I realize ache's and pains are just part of life once you get older.


----------



## attmci (Dec 17, 2018)

rnros said:


> Of course, they did... When the TV died.
> You pulled all the tubes, if you were lucky, the tube tester at the hardware store was working, purchased the needed replacement tube.
> Went home, plugged in the tubes, crossed fingers and turned the TV on.


That's tube replacement. 

I mean they should buy GEC tubes for their TV. So they can have a 4k-TV in the 50's!!!   LOL


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Ha....Twister, great stuff!
> 
> At this point I just have a monthly chiropractic visit....and it seems to work out pretty well. Usually something is bothering me by that time.
> Not complaining though, as I realize ache's and pains are just part of life once you get older.


Heard a funny story about aging. Somebody’s father was 90 years old. Every morning getting out of bed was an ordeal - this hurt, that hurt etc etc.
One morning he woke up and nothing hurt. He told his son: Today nothing hurt when I woke up - I thought I was dead!


----------



## gibosi

A pair of Valvo EL8 manufactured by Valvo at their Hamburg plant in 1948. Not much to look at, with smoked glass, but coupled with a Holland-made GZ34 and a quad of Tung-Sol 6BX7, this is a good sound. 

I will say that it seems that Deyan's adapters seem to need to be man-handled a bit before they quiet down. Initially, they have crackled a bit and I hear that "shhh" sound that I interpret to be a poor cathode connection. After thoroughly cleaning the pins of the adapter and the tube with a brass wire brush, I then inserted and removed the tubes from the adapters and the adapters from the sockets multiple times and eventually they quieted down. So far so good.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Good work, Ken and looks great!!


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Ha....Twister, great stuff!
> 
> At this point I just have a monthly chiropractic visit....and it seems to work out pretty well. Usually something is bothering me by that time.
> Not complaining though, as I realize ache's and pains are just part of life once you get older.


You guys...… 

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video...l-shreds-the-whistler-mountain-bike-park.html


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> A pair of Valvo EL8 manufactured by Valvo at their Hamburg plant in 1948. Not much to look at, with smoked glass, but coupled with a Holland-made GZ34 and a quad of Tung-Sol 6BX7, this is a good sound.
> 
> I will say that it seems that Deyan's adapters seem to need to be man-handled a bit before they quiet down. Initially, they have crackled a bit and I hear that "shhh" sound that I interpret to be a poor cathode connection. After thoroughly cleaning the pins of the adapter and the tube with a brass wire brush, I then inserted and removed the tubes from the adapters and the adapters from the sockets multiple times and eventually they quieted down. So far so good.


So the adapters need cleaning to be quiet. I will try that this weekend. Thanks Ken.


----------



## Phantaminum

I decided to swap out to the 6336bs and I’m very much enjoying with the Philips FDD20 as a driver. 

They don’t sound as forward and have that center image that the 6BX7s have but the warmth of the Philips Miniwatt compliments the 6336Bs neutral character.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> You guys...…
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video...l-shreds-the-whistler-mountain-bike-park.html





I would end up with many broken bones


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> I decided to swap out to the 6336bs and I’m very much enjoying with the Philips FDD20 as a driver.
> 
> They don’t sound as forward and have that center image that the 6BX7s have but the warmth of the Philips Miniwatt compliments the 6336Bs neutral character.



Looks great!!

Only own one 6336b - still need one more to try this.  I am a big fan of FDD20 


.


----------



## mordy

Bought a couple of new drivers - GE JAN 5670W, Western Electric 396A and Tung Sol 2C51. I previously had gotten  a GE triple mica 5670. All of them are from the same family.
These are very nice drivers and sound great with the current power team of 4x6BX7 and 2x5998.
The biggest surprise was the GE JAN 5670. This tube is the least expensive and offered by many sellers. An inexpensive great sounding tube.

Wonder what a tube bile duct is? Maybe circular getter?





https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-GE-Tub...h=item48b0b9ec55:g:dDcAAOSwg0hbXm7Z:rk:8:pf:0


----------



## Phantaminum (Dec 19, 2018)

mordy said:


> Bought a couple of new drivers - GE JAN 5670W, Western Electric 396A and Tung Sol 2C51. I previously had gotten  a GE triple mica 5670. All of them are from the same family.
> These are very nice drivers and sound great with the current power team of 4x6BX7 and 2x5998.
> The biggest surprise was the GE JAN 5670. This tube is the least expensive and offered by many sellers. An inexpensive great sounding tube.
> 
> ...



Great catch on all of those tubes. The Tung-Sol is especially a good tube with sweet mids. Some of the Russian tubes in the family are also fantastic and very cheap.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Great catch on all of those tubes. The Tung-Sol is especially a good tube with sweet mids. Some of the Russian tubes in the family are also fantastic and very cheap.


Any specific recommendations re Russian tubes?


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Any specific recommendations re Russian tubes?



If you can find a single of the Foton Triple Mica you’ll find a tube that matches the sweetness of the Holland tubes while having slightly more clarity. @AuditoryCanvas tests and sells these tubes for a $30 - 40 a pair. I’d look for those. I’ll go through my stash and see what tubes stand out more than the others.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> If you can find a single of the Foton Triple Mica you’ll find a tube that matches the sweetness of the Holland tubes while having slightly more clarity. @AuditoryCanvas tests and sells these tubes for a $30 - 40 a pair. I’d look for those. I’ll go through my stash and see what tubes stand out more than the others.


After discovering the 1952-55 Foton 6H8C ribbed anode tubes I let other people know how good they sound - have a couple of pairs.
What I meant is 5670 equivalents or similar driver tubes suitable for the GOTL.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> After discovering the 1952-55 Foton 6H8C ribbed anode tubes I let other people know how good they sound - have a couple of pairs.
> What I meant is 5670 equivalents or similar driver tubes suitable for the GOTL.



Oh, this one isn’t the Foton 6H8C ribbed tube.The Foton Triple Mica is a 6N3P tube which is the Russian designation for 5670/2c51. Almost fully covered halfway or more than halfway down with silver flashing. I’ll post some pics later this afternoon.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Oh, this one isn’t the Foton 6H8C ribbed tube.The Foton Triple Mica is a 6N3P tube which is the Russian designation for 5670/2c51. Almost fully covered halfway or more than halfway down with silver flashing. I’ll post some pics later this afternoon.


Thanks for the clarification.
There are literally hundreds of offerings, and many sellers will sell you multiple tubes at very reasonable prices. 
Could not find anything that matched your description though. Looking forward to your pictures - thanks.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Checking in...

Exciting on the 5670, Mordy...I believe Ken said the same, about this tube, a few weeks ago?

I am enjoying a bass heavy GOTL....loving this combo:

Toshiba 12AU7 (built in Japan sometime between 1952 to 1954) / 6BL7 (flat plates) and Mullard 6080 (1970 in most desireable factory). 

Listening via HD650's which are V shaped...
12AU7 keeps the treble sparkling and mids liquid....beautiful
6080 - gorgeous lower mids and upper bass, solid bass note
6BL7 flat plate - all this georgous SUB BASS....bring it ON!

Nothing is flabby...or bloated. But it is not too tight, either..

The listener is happy happy happy...


----------



## Phantaminum (Dec 19, 2018)

mordy said:


> Thanks for the clarification.
> There are literally hundreds of offerings, and many sellers will sell you multiple tubes at very reasonable prices.
> Could not find anything that matched your description though. Looking forward to your pictures - thanks.



Hey Mordy,

Here’s a few pictures of the Foton Triple Mica 6n3p and one of my favorites, the LM Ericsson 2c51.

Foton 6n3p:




LM Ericsson O-Getter Steel Pins:


----------



## mordy

A tube seller asked me if the GOTL uses AC or DC for the tube heaters, claiming that AC heaters make certain tubes more noisy. Does anybody know if AC or DC is used?


----------



## 2359glenn

AC


----------



## mordy (Dec 20, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Hey Mordy,
> 
> Here’s a few pictures of the Foton Triple Mica 6n3p and one of my favorites, the LM Ericsson 2c51.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for the pictures - looking into getting the Foton. The Swede is too expensive for my taste -


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 20, 2018)

mordy said:


> Thanks very much for the pictures - looking into getting the Foton. The Swede is too expensive for my taste -



Hey Mordy...

I like the 4x 6BX7 / 2x 5998 much better than
2x 6BL7 / 6080...

In fact I think the 6080’s do better w/o the assistance of the 6BL7’s.

That Foton 6N3P looks great...


Cheers...


----------



## Phantaminum

You know Glenn, you did an amazing job with this amp. I'm amazed at how well the synergy is with Sennheiser headphones. We're cleaning up our place and I see the my poor HD650s being ignored. Plugged them in to Valvo EL8 and 6336Bs combo; they sound amazing. Smooth, punchy, and dynamic. Definitely worth the wait!


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> You know Glenn, you did an amazing job with this amp. I'm amazed at how well the synergy is with Sennheiser headphones. We're cleaning up our place and I see the my poor HD650s being ignored. Plugged them in to Valvo EL8 and 6336Bs combo; they sound amazing. Smooth, punchy, and dynamic. Definitely worth the wait!



Originally built the amp for the HD650 then I got the HD800 and they sounded great on the amp


----------



## lukeap69

No wonder I enjoy my HD650 and HD800SD so much on my Darna. They are exclusive on my GOTL. Initially, I preferred the HD650 using 6AS7 and variation tubes whilst the HD800SD loves the 6BX7/6BL7 tubes. But then GEC 6AS7 and TS 5998 came along. With those tubes, I don't mind whether I listen to HD650 or HD800SD. Glenn's OTL amp is a wonder amp!


----------



## mordy

I like the 4x 6BX7 / 2x 5998 much better than
2x 6BL7 / 6080...

Hi JV,
Have been using 4xBX and 5998 for the past week- very enjoyable sound. Trying different drivers; most everything sounds good so I am looking for something that sounds magical lol...
I do have a quad of 1975 6N23P tubes - will have to try it with this combo.
Today I listened to GE JAN5670W and RCA 12SX7, but there is something special about the NU 6C8G that I switched to now.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> I like the 4x 6BX7 / 2x 5998 much better than
> 2x 6BL7 / 6080...
> 
> Hi JV,
> ...



Really, I'm not sure what National Union did with their tubes but they sound great in Glenn's amp. Totally agree with you there Mordi! I'll try the 5998s next.


----------



## UntilThen

Enjoy your GOTL guys. Can't wait to send mine back for repair.

I miss the dynamic sound of this setup. It's the best I've heard.


----------



## Rossliew

What happened to yours, Matt?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Merry Christmas to all...

This was yesterday, started out the same today, but snowing like mad, presently


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## mordy

Plugged in the 13D1 with the 4xBX/2x5998. Did not sound that great in the beginning, but after 1/2 hour warm-up - WOW!
This is one of the magical combinations.....



An open, sweet, warm and spacious sound.


----------



## Sound Trooper (Dec 24, 2018)

Merry Xmas and happy holidays guys!


----------



## felix3650

JazzVinyl said:


>


JV as always with his very nice pics 


Sound Trooper said:


> Merry Xmas and happy holidays guys!


Look at all those Xmas presents!


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Merry Xmas and happy holidays guys!



Great pic!


----------



## lukeap69

Merry Christmas everyone!


----------



## 2359glenn

Merry Christmas happy holiday everyone.
A little early in the US but already Christmas for some of you.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

32 more mins to go here... Merry Christmas! May peace be upon you & your loved ones


----------



## Redmetal1897 (Dec 24, 2018)

Merry christmas and happy holidays to all!

Quick question @2359glenn , I got the hexfred adapter with my OTL but I haven't used it yet. How does it actually work? Do I plug it in the rectifier slot and leave the driver/output tubes plugged in (2x6H13C output tubes and a 13D1 driver)?

Thanks!


----------



## UntilThen

Merry Christmas. May 2019 brings you more audio adventures.


----------



## 2359glenn

Daanish said:


> Merry christmas and happy holidays to all!
> 
> Quick question @2359glenn , I got the hexfred adapter with my OTL but I haven't used it yet. How does it actually work? Do I plug it in the rectifier slot and leave the driver/output tubes plugged in (2x6H13C output tubes and a 13D1 driver)?
> 
> Thanks!



Yes just plug it into the rectifier socket. 2 diodes just like the tube. The B+ will be higher changing the sound a little.
Almost no voltage drop in SS rectifiers.


----------



## gibosi

I hope everyone is having a joyous and happy holiday season no matter where in the world you live.


----------



## whirlwind

*MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL*


----------



## UntilThen

My favourite picture of the GOTL. Happy holidays !


----------



## Xcalibur255

Happy Holidays to all!


----------



## Phantaminum

Merry Christmas everyone and a Happy Holiday!


----------



## gibosi

Due to Whirlwind's very kind generosity, I rolled in some EL3N this evening. Strapped as triodes, these have an amplification factor of 23, about the same as a 6SN7, and half that of the C3g, and as result these are very quiet with 6BX7, even with the American power transformer.

Like most EL3N I see on eBay, these were manufactured by WIRAG, a Philips subsidiary located in Vienna, Austria, in the mid-1950's. However, I have also seen a few EL3N that appear to have been manufactured by Loewe Opta, another Philips subsidiary located in Berlin-Steglitz, at around the same time. Hope to get a pair someday.

In the meantime, I am thorougly enjoying the EL3N and look forward to rolling through a few different rectifiers to discover which ones I prefer. Life is good.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Due to Whirlwind's very kind generosity, I rolled in some EL3N this evening. Strapped as triodes, these have an amplification factor of 23, about the same as a 6SN7, and half that of the C3g, and as result these are very quiet with 6BX7, even with the American power transformer.
> 
> Like most EL3N I see on eBay, these were manufactured by WIRAG, a Philips subsidiary located in Vienna, Austria, in the mid-1950's. However, I have also seen a few EL3N that appear to have been manufactured by Loewe Opta, another Philips subsidiary located in Berlin-Steglitz, at around the same time. Hope to get a pair someday.
> 
> In the meantime, I am thorougly enjoying the EL3N and look forward to rolling through a few different rectifiers to discover which ones I prefer. Life is good.




Very nice, Ken. 

Can you say a few words regarding EL8 vs EL3N in the GOTL?

And....

Merry Christmas!!


----------



## mordy

Hi gibosi,
There are EL3N tubes with the labels Mazda/Dario (and Adzam), French RT and Visseux, and Hungarian (?) Tungsram as well. I assume that the French and Hungarian tubes are not subsidiaries of Philips, but I may be wrong.
I have also seen a German Telefunken straight glass EL3N from 1944.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Very nice, Ken.
> 
> Can you say a few words regarding EL8 vs EL3N in the GOTL?
> 
> ...



I haven't really spent enough time with them to be able to make any meaningful comparisons. But the EL8 were made in Hamburg by Valvo while the EL3N were made in Vienna by WIRAG, and of course different factories almost guarantees that they will sound different. What I mainly noticed is that the EL8 are incredibly quiet. But maybe I just got lucky...


----------



## gibosi (Dec 25, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> There are EL3N tubes with the labels Mazda/Dario (and Adzam), French RT and Visseux, and Hungarian (?) Tungsram as well. I assume that the French and Hungarian tubes are not subsidiaries of Philips, but I may be wrong.
> I have also seen a German Telefunken straight glass EL3N from 1944.



Hungarian Tungsram was not a Philips subsidiary, and while RT/Dario/Mazda/Adzam was certainly within the Philips orbit, it was not a wholly owned subsidiary. And I strongly doubt that Visseux was part of Philips, although I am not sure.

I have a number of other tubes manufactured by Hungarian Tungsram and RT and don't much care for them, so I am not interested in spending real money to try their EL3N production. And while a number of folks here have tried the Visseaux 6N7G, I have no experience with that brand. But I do have a couple rectifiers manufactured by Loewe Opta, and find them to be good enough that I am willing to try the EL3N for a reasonable price.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 25, 2018)

gibosi said:


> I haven't really spent enough time with them to be able to make any meaningful comparisons. But the EL8 were made in Hamburg by Valvo while the EL3N were made in Vienna by WIRAG, and of course different factories almost guarantees that they will sound different. What I mainly noticed is that the EL8 are incredibly quiet. But maybe I just got lucky...



Appreciate Ken...the EL8's are said to have 1/2 the mu of EL3N, wonder if that helps with the quiet?

A few days ago I received my CV1052 (EL32) to C3G adapters from Mrs Xu.  Today, the CV1052 tubes arrived from Langrex. 

Sound is nice with a pair of plain jane RCA 6AS7's...buttery smooth mids, great bass and delicate, and subdued treble, a great combination of attributes for high impedance Sennheiser cans..


----------



## rnros

Merry Christmas and Happy Holiday to everyone!

Best Wishes for a Happy and Healthy 2019.


----------



## Monsterzero

Happy Christmas to all the great folks in this thread. May your stockings be stuffed with unobtanium tubes!

Quick question:

With Cetron 6336b tubes,does one need to use 5CU4 rectifier?


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 25, 2018)

The 3DG4 I gave you with the amp has plenty of power to power 6336s.
I think a tube that can handle 250Ma or better will work.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> The 3DG4 I gave you with the amp has plenty of power to power 6336s.



Howza about a HEXFRED,or for example,my Mullard GZ32?


----------



## 2359glenn

The HEXFRED will be posted tomorrow I missed the mail it can handle more then any tube 6 amps or 6000 Ma.
I think the GZ32 will handle it. It can handle 300Ma at 300 volts the amp is running at 250 volts.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Can you say a few words regarding EL8 vs EL3N in the GOTL?



After spending a bit more time with these, in my opinion they sound pretty much as one might expect. The Valvo EL8 is thinner and brighter, as is typical of other Valvo production in my possession. And the Philips/WIRAG EL3N is warmer and not quite as bright, a sound signature that is similar to the WIRAG rectifiers in my possession. Given these differences, I am finding that I prefer a Holland-made Philips GZ34 rectifier with the Valvo and a GEC U18/20 rectifier with the WIRAG.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> After spending a bit more time with these, in my opinion they sound pretty much as one might expect. The Valvo EL8 is thinner and brighter, as is typical of other Valvo production in my possession. And the Philips/WIRAG EL3N is warmer and not quite as bright, a sound signature that is similar to the WIRAG rectifiers in my possession. Given these differences, I am finding that I prefer a Holland-made Philips GZ34 rectifier with the Valvo and a GEC U18/20 rectifier with the WIRAG.




Thanks Ken....this tells me two things....one, I need an Phillips GZ34 rectifier and two...I love warm and bassy tubes more than anybody


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> After spending a bit more time with these, in my opinion they sound pretty much as one might expect. The Valvo EL8 is thinner and brighter, as is typical of other Valvo production in my possession. And the Philips/WIRAG EL3N is warmer and not quite as bright, a sound signature that is similar to the WIRAG rectifiers in my possession. Given these differences, I am finding that I prefer a Holland-made Philips GZ34 rectifier with the Valvo and a GEC U18/20 rectifier with the WIRAG.



I ran EL3N as drivers last night for a few hours.  

I am not very impressed with EL3N as drivers in SS rectifier GOTL as it sounded no better to me than any run of the mill 6SN7.  Thx for the comparison to EL8...appreciate.


----------



## Xcalibur255

For those of you who roll C3g, have you observed any meaningful variation in tone between different Siemens tubes?  Ever since my ill advised de-canning adventure I have not been able to get the amp back to sounding the way it did before.  The remaining C3g tubes I have don't quite sound the same in the mids and lower treble.  I guess you could call it a bit "icy" sounding with a more dry tone color.  This is kind of like trying to balance an egg for me.  There is a specific tone presentation that just clicks and is emotionally engaging.... anything that upsets the balance shuts down the enjoyment completely.

I think I've put at least 50 hours on this particular set of tubes so they should be settled by now.....


----------



## gibosi

I doubt that my ears are as sensitive as yours...  But for what it's worth, I am unable to detect any difference between any of the C3gs I have with white silk-screened shiny black cans. They all sound the same to me. I have noticed that the older Siemens C3g, with flat-black embossed cans, are actually a little drier in the mid-range than the shiny ones. The best way I know to describe their sound is that there is a little less "reverb" in the mid-range. So if I understand you correctly, the older flat-black Siemens may be even less satisfactory. But again, my ears aren't all that good anymore, and for me, I can usually roll-in a different rectifier to get a tone that I like.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Dec 26, 2018)

Any viewpoint that isn't my own is helpful.  I get way too tangled up in my own thoughts on this stuff.

It's weird actually, because as time goes by I'm becoming better and better at knowing what sounds "right" but as the same time it's becoming harder and harder to describe with words.  It just sounds "off" to me in the same way a musician knows right away that their instrument is out of tune.

This pair of C3g are marked as C3gS.  I haven't listened to them before, so maybe the S version sounds a little different.  I noticed last night that the serial numbers on the tubes are actually sequential, they were brothers on the same assembly line.  Can't get much more 'matched' than that I guess.

Jac van der Walle says some sellers are actually damaging some of these C3g tubes on purpose because a side effect of having the grid deformed slightly from shock is that they can actually read better on a tube tester if you test it the right way.  In reality the tube is now junk according to him.  

It's stuff like this that makes me paranoid.  I usually wish I hadn't after I read things like that.  This particular pair of tubes came from eBay, not from Jac, so now in my mind the possibility is there.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> Any viewpoint that isn't my own is helpful.  I get way too tangled up in my own thoughts on this stuff.
> 
> It's weird actually, because as time goes by I'm becoming better and better at knowing what sounds "right" but as the same time it's becoming harder and harder to describe with words.  It just sounds "off" to me in the same way a musician knows right away that their instrument is out of tune.
> 
> ...


Hi X255,
Agree completely with you re things not feeling right. Something bothers you but you can't put your finger on it, but when things are straightened out, you just know it.
Re the C3g tubes I am very skeptical that people will subject these tubes to shock to improve measurements. These tubes are much more fragile than others, and why would somebody risk breaking the tube and loose the money? And how many buyers have test equipment? And equipment that matches the sellers equipment for consistent readings? 
I really don't think that you should worry about C3g tubes turned into junk - doesn't sound right.....
The C3gS is supposed to be the best 10% of the production, buit the S is written by hand on the tube (although printed on the box flap), but I could see that it is easy to fake that.
The people (including me) that compared the C3g and the C3gS could not hear much of a difference.
Don't know if it is my imagination, but there are times when everything sounds great. Then you try something else and afterwards go back to the original great sounding set-up. Except that it doesn't sound that good now. What changed?


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 27, 2018)

A beautiful session here tonight, with my GOTL and some incredibly well recorded ECM Jazz Trios...

Inner detail, city:


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Don't know if it is my imagination, but there are times when everything sounds great. Then you try something else and afterwards go back to the original great sounding set-up. Except that it doesn't sound that good now. What changed?



I have often said the most difficult part of this hobby is the “clearing of the decks”...getting your mind right, to drink in the glorious sounds.  If your not properly relaxed, or have not selected the correct music etc...

Then you find yourself tangled up in blue...

Get your physical / mental self set, to let the tuneage wash over you, and carry you out to sea...you will be adrift in sonic bliss.


----------



## UntilThen

I hated this song because it's over played but then Miley sings it and wow it's good. John Lennon would have been proud.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I hated this song because it's over played but then Miley sings it and wow it's good. John Lennon would have been proud.



Always loved the original, evokes human emotion, with the Harlem Children's Choir in tow...

But has been covered many times.  Check the Wiki 

My wife always listened to some heavy metal group who covered it as a ballad,  When I told her it was a John Lennon song...she didn't believe it.  Had to retrieve the vinyl and play it for her


----------



## Xcalibur255

@mordy

The only conclusion that makes sense is that *we* are what changes.  State of mind, mood, inner ear pressure relative to barometric pressure, blood pressure, whatever else we had listened to prior that day.  I've come to understand that not every listening session can have that special "magic" and that our perceptions are an uncontrollable variable in this complex equation.  Somehow, in spite of having just said that, I get very worked up whenever I have a bad listening session and become convinced that something has gone wrong.

In fact it might even be a good thing that there are ups and downs to these perceptions.  If it were equally good every time I imagine it would quickly turn from extraordinary to ordinary and stop feeling special.  It's the contrast that keeps the magic feeling like magic perhaps.

You dropped a nice bit of info on the matter of the 'S' being handwritten on the tubes.  I didn't realize this and only thought it was the boxes that had the S.  My tubes have this marking on them, but I somehow thought they were '5' and written by the seller, perhaps matching pairs during testing.  I feel silly for not realizing that the '5' could and is in fact an 'S' marked on the tube from the original factory selection process.

edit:  for some reason the forum wouldn't allow me to quote you when I posted this.  It kept erroring out.


----------



## mordy

Hi X255,
Agree with you on these points. The great sounding new setup becomes the new normal and may lose some of its luster over time.
Then you have the setups and days when you forget about the hardware and just sit back and enjoy the music. 
And then.....
the days something is wrong and things don’t sound right or awful, and it bothers you so much that it throws you out of balance.

You cannot make the following statement about solid state stuff, but for sure you can about tube equipment:
“I am drawn to tube amps because of the inconvenience and the expense.”
At the same time, when everything is alright, it is very rewarding.
And I forgot, always interesting.
Have fun!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Well, finally! 

 I now have a working pair of EL8's adapted to C3g sockets! Been months and months, several false starts, "arrived broken" tubes, "arrived broken" adapters...waiting for replacement tubes and adapters....still no worky! Took Mordy's advice to glue the bases down tight and buffing the side contact paddles and they finally work 

EL8's are perfect for "driver triplet" duty:




 

Enjoying a wonderful New Age playlist...

Sonics are superb!

Hey Glenn....THANK YOU!!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Hungarian Tungsram was not a Philips subsidiary, and while RT/Dario/Mazda/Adzam was certainly within the Philips orbit, it was not a wholly owned subsidiary. And I strongly doubt that Visseux was part of Philips, although I am not sure.



Don't know is Visseaux was  part of Phillips either, but the box from my old Visseaux 6N7G says:  "License Sylvania".


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Well, finally!
> 
> I now have a working pair of EL8's adapted to C3g sockets! Been months and months, several false starts, "arrived broken" tubes, "arrived broken" adapters...waiting for replacement tubes and adapters....still no worky! Took Mordy's advice to glue the bases down tight and buffing the side contact paddles and they finally work
> 
> ...



How does the EL8's sound buy themselves ??


----------



## JazzVinyl

I agree with gibosi assessment, that they have the Valvo "house sound" of being bright and a bit bass thin.  
6x BL7's helps with the bass.  Also agree with gibosi that they are wonderfully silent.

My pair are certainly NOS and may change a bit, with some exercise.


----------



## UntilThen

On the scale of brightness, I consider EL11 > EL8 > EL3N.

EL8 is not overly bright but only when compared to EL3N. I find EL8 with 6 x 6bx7gt a good balance to my ears.

Glenn, I'll pack EL13 and EL8 tubes with the adapters when I send my amp back to you so you can listen to those tubes in the c3g sockets.


----------



## m17xr2b

JazzVinyl said:


> Don't know is Visseaux was part of Phillips either, but the box from my old Visseaux 6N7G says: "License Sylvania".



I believe at some point Visseaux was building Sylvania designed valves in their factory with their tooling. There's a Visseaux 2A3 that supposedly sounds better than the Sylvania one, the same as Fivre in Italy who built under RCA license, same design but better than the original.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> On the scale of brightness, I consider EL11 > EL8 > EL3N.
> 
> EL8 is not overly bright but only when compared to EL3N. I find EL8 with 6 x 6bx7gt a good balance to my ears.
> 
> Glenn, I'll pack EL13 and EL8 tubes with the adapters when I send my amp back to you so you can listen to those tubes in the c3g sockets.



What tubes were you using when the amp screwed up??


----------



## UntilThen

EL32


----------



## mordy

m17xr2b said:


> I believe at some point Visseaux was building Sylvania designed valves in their factory with their tooling. There's a Visseaux 2A3 that supposedly sounds better than the Sylvania one, the same as Fivre in Italy who built under RCA license, same design but better than the original.


A little tube trivia:
" In 1937, the Soviet Union purchased a tube assembly line from RCA, including production licenses and initial staff training, and installed it on the St Petersburg plant.[5] US-licensed tubes were produced since then." These are the Svetlana tubes.
The circle went around 360 degrees. Today the New Sensor Corporation, based in New York, is the largest tube supplier in the world and all Russian re-issue tubes come from the Saratov plant in Russia which is owned by New Sensor.


----------



## UntilThen

EL32


----------



## gibosi

m17xr2b said:


> I believe at some point Visseaux was building Sylvania designed valves in their factory with their tooling. There's a Visseaux 2A3 that supposedly sounds better than the Sylvania one, the same as Fivre in Italy who built under RCA license, same design but better than the original.



Well, with all due respect, "better" is a very relative term. After WWII, a number of the European manufacturers were keen on obtaining technology sharing agreements with American manufacturers in order to produce and market American style valves. So yes, Visseaux had an agreement that allowed them to build and market valves using Sylvania technology, and Fivre had a similar agreement with RCA. And of course, Visseaux and Fivre were free to tweak the designs in order to take advantage of local materials and technology. But to say that the resulting product was "better" is a bit of a stretch, IMO.


----------



## mordy

Hi Glenn,
I also tried the EL32 in the GOTL but stopped using them since there seemed to be a compatibility problem - the amp acting up with loud pops and crackles. 
I don't understand why - all the other EL tubes I tried (EL3N, EL6, EL11, EL12) behaved well.


----------



## Phantaminum (Dec 28, 2018)

For those of you running the Sennheiser HD650s and feel the need for more treble extension the "Mouse Ears" Tung-Sol with any of the other power tube really gives you that needed reach. I originally put them aside because I felt they were too bright paired with any of my other headphones.

Works well with laid back headphones.


----------



## m17xr2b

gibosi said:


> Well, with all due respect, "better" is a very relative term. After WWII, a number of the European manufacturers were keen on obtaining technology sharing agreements with American manufacturers in order to produce and market American style valves. So yes, Visseaux had an agreement that allowed them to build and market valves using Sylvania technology, and Fivre had a similar agreement with RCA. And of course, Visseaux and Fivre were free to tweak the designs in order to take advantage of local materials and technology. But to say that the resulting product was "better" is a bit of a stretch, IMO.


My experience with the above was the 2A3 mono plate both RCA and Fivre and fivre S Plates, even if they were copied designed the fivres were better, midrange especially had more presence. I know it's not the case for all licences tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> EL32



Send them and the adapters with the amp. Were they plugged into the C3g sockets?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> I also tried the EL32 in the GOTL but stopped using them since there seemed to be a compatibility problem - the amp acting up with loud pops and crackles.
> I don't understand why - all the other EL tubes I tried (EL3N, EL6, EL11, EL12) behaved well.



Could be bad tubes?


----------



## mordy

Everything is possible, but I doubt it. JV has a somewhat similar experience with the GOTL, but they work well in another amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Everything is possible, but I doubt it. JV has a somewhat similar experience with the GOTL, but they work well in another amp.



I ordered EL32 and adapters when UT and Mordy first tried them and said they were good.  Took them a really long time to arrive and by that time, reports of problems were in.

Decided to try my luck anyways.  Mrs Xu's EL32 to C3g adapters...

Sounded fine through 3 or 4 'couple hour' sessions, thought maybe ai had escaped the problems. Mordy sent a PM and said watch out for loud pop/cracks that take awhile to come on....

When firing up the amp w/EL32's in...I did expirence some pops...but not super loud.

Removed the EL32's from GOTL and didn't try them again.

Still have my Elise amp, used same EL32's as drivers in that amp: Xu_c3g_adapter->C3g_6SN7 adapters.....so same tubes and adapters, also used another pair of EL32's as powers in that amp....they have preformed beautifully - have really enjoyed them in Elise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> On the scale of brightness, I consider EL11 > EL8 > EL3N.
> 
> EL8 is not overly bright but only when compared to EL3N. I find EL8 with 6 x 6bx7gt a good balance to my ears.
> 
> Glenn, I'll pack EL13 and EL8 tubes with the adapters when I send my amp back to you so you can listen to those tubes in the c3g sockets.



Not bright to you, is still bright to me.

Hoping EL8 will loose some brightness and forward mids, with use.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Everything is possible, but I doubt it. JV has a somewhat similar experience with the GOTL, but they work well in another amp.



Maybe the adapter is not wired right so UT should send tubes and adapters with the amp so I can see how they are wired.
Then try them and I will find what is going on.


----------



## 2359glenn

I just removed the EL8s from my DAC preamp and put in the 6SN7W that JV lent me.
Wow what a improvement you know what sounds best in a 6SN7 socket a 6SN7 or 12SN7 or 13D1.
What the circuit was designed for.
 Maybe these tubes sound better in the C3g sockets I don't know but will find out when UT sends the adapters.
Going to try the EL3Ns again in a little while want to get used to the 6SN7W sound. This is with speakers driven with 300B amps


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> I just removed the EL8s from my DAC preamp and put in the 6SN7W that JV lent me.
> Wow what a improvement you know what sounds best in a 6SN7 socket a 6SN7 or 12SN7 or 13D1.
> What the circuit was designed for.
> Maybe these tubes sound better in the C3g sockets I don't know but will find out when UT sends the adapters.
> Going to try the EL3Ns again in a little while want to get used to the 6SN7W sound. This is with speakers driven with 300B amps



Yes!! 6SN7W is a special tube, hard to beat it, for sure. Agree about what sounds best in in SN7 socket...add 1633 to that list


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Send them and the adapters with the amp. Were they plugged into the C3g sockets?



I will send the EL32 and adapters. I have both coke bottle and straight EL32 tubes as shown below. The straight tubes worked fine for 2 days then the crackles started.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I just removed the EL8s from my DAC preamp and put in the 6SN7W that JV lent me.
> Wow what a improvement you know what sounds best in a 6SN7 socket a 6SN7 or 12SN7 or 13D1.
> What the circuit was designed for.
> Maybe these tubes sound better in the C3g sockets I don't know but will find out when UT sends the adapters.
> Going to try the EL3Ns again in a little while want to get used to the 6SN7W sound. This is with speakers driven with 300B amps



The Mullard ECC35 and Sylvania 6sn7w metal base were some of the most impressionable drivers I've heard in the GOTL - with 6 x 6bx7gt. I'll pack the ECC35 in for you to listen. Would you like to listen to a FDD20?


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> On the scale of brightness, I consider EL11 > EL8 > EL3N.
> 
> EL8 is not overly bright but only when compared to EL3N. I find EL8 with 6 x 6bx7gt a good balance to my ears.
> 
> Glenn, I'll pack EL13 and EL8 tubes with the adapters when I send my amp back to you so you can listen to those tubes in the c3g sockets.



That would help in the future. I'll be ordering with EL3N sockets so helping Glenn run the EL family at best (in the OTL) would be great.



m17xr2b said:


> .



Hey man. You're the same m17xr2b (that's your notebook) from NBR right? Glad to see a fellow gamer with passion for high-end audio in this forum too


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> The Mullard ECC35 and Sylvania 6sn7w metal base were some of the most impressionable drivers I've heard in the GOTL - with 6 x 6bx7gt. I'll pack the ECC35 in for you to listen. Would you like to listen to a FDD20?



Yes to the FDD200


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 28, 2018)

Tonight everything sounds bright could be because I am sick. Put EL3Ns in it mellowed it a bit but still think the 6SN7W sounds best overall.
The EL3N would sound better if it was running right not as a 6SN7.
I love the sound of the all EL3N amp.  The driver EL3N runs at a much higher current then it would
in a 6SN7 circuit.


----------



## 2359glenn

One of those days finished a 300B amp and one of the 5 Amp voltage regulators I used is bad. It is putting out 14 volts and won't adjust.
Good thing I didn't put in the 300Bs one of them would have burned out.
Will have to go to work tomorrow I think I have some there for IR lighting in laser cutters.
Set me back a day


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> That would help in the future. I'll be ordering with EL3N sockets so helping Glenn run the EL family at best (in the OTL) would be great.



That would be a first in the OTL amp. I'm sure a custom design EL3N sockets in the OTL amp would be better than any third party adapters. Do get Yamamoto's sockets for the EL3Ns.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> That would be a first in the OTL amp. I'm sure a custom design EL3N sockets in the OTL amp would be better than any third party adapters. Do get Yamamoto's sockets for the EL3Ns.



Yes, absolutely...especially for the EL3N tubes...the extra money is worth it for the Yamamoto sockets.

I think Glenn said he would only use these sockets for the EL3N tubes now, but it really is worth the extra money.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes to the FDD200



Alright, I'll include the FDD20 and adapter. A single *sn7 socket in the OTL should have been sufficient because there are just so many drivers you can use. However the pair of c3g sockets just opens up more possibilities.

After I get my GOTL restored, I would have been happy to run with Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6bx7gt .... if I had to choose just one combo.

At the moment, to replicate the sound from GOTL with that combo, in the La Figaro 339, I had to use Mullard EF86 and Tung Sol 7236. It's not the same but it will have to do for now. I miss GOTL nuanced and detailed dynamic impact.


----------



## attmci (Dec 29, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Maybe the adapter is not wired right so UT should send tubes and adapters with the amp so I can see how they are wired.
> Then try them and I will find what is going on.


A simple measurement should work.

But visual inspection will help to find the real problem. I think the legs of the adapters may need be trimmed.

Good luck!


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> I just removed the EL8s from my DAC preamp and put in the 6SN7W that JV lent me.
> Wow what a improvement you know what sounds best in a 6SN7 socket a 6SN7 or 12SN7 or 13D1.
> What the circuit was designed for.
> Maybe these tubes sound better in the C3g sockets I don't know but will find out when UT sends the adapters.
> Going to try the EL3Ns again in a little while want to get used to the 6SN7W sound. This is with speakers driven with 300B amps



Totally agree, but ppl want change.

A metal base one might sound better.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> A metal base one might sound better.



I have both Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and black base. Being a details lover, I certainly prefer the metal base over the black base. In a subjective world we live in though, opinions will differ.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 28, 2018)

I find a good 12AU7 in the GOTL is hard to beat, too.  Correct amount of mellow, clarity and dynamics....simple, but good:


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I have both Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and black base. Being a details lover, I certainly prefer the metal base over the black base. In a subjective world we live in though, opinions will differ.



In the past, you have said meal base was brighter?

attmci loves bright...just sayin...  

And just tried EL8's in C3g sockets again, with the RCA 6AS7G and they did not seem so bright...as I emphatically stated before.  So maybe they don't love some powers...(6x 6BL7)?


----------



## attmci

JazzVinyl said:


> In the past, you have said meal base was brighter?
> 
> attmci loves bright...just sayin...
> 
> And just tried EL8's in C3g sockets again, with the RCA 6AS7G and they did not seem so bright...as I emphatically stated before.  So maybe they don't love some powers...(6x 6BL7)?


I hate brighter. 

The metal base is superior but way too expensive. A broken base one cost more than $100. But that doesn't matter and I can share my way to cure the broken base ( better than Ken's method).


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> I hate brighter.
> 
> The metal base is superior but way too expensive. A broken base one cost more than $100. But that doesn't matter and I can share my way to cure the broken base ( better than Ken's method).



Crazy spending that much money on a 6SN7 there are other tubes that sound good for much less. A 1633 sounds dam good for $4.
That is if your amp can supply 25 volts to the 6SN7 socket. I also bought a Westinghouse 6SN7 for $1  that I use to test all amps that sounds good.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Crazy spending that much money on a 6SN7 there are other tubes that sound good for much less. A 1633 sounds dam good for $4.
> That is if your amp can supply 25 volts to the 6SN7 socket. I also bought a Westinghouse 6SN7 for $1  that I use to test all amps that sounds good.


Which amp can supply both 25V and 6.3V  except yours?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Crazy spending that much money on a 6SN7 there are other tubes that sound good for much less. A 1633 sounds dam good for $4.
> That is if your amp can supply 25 volts to the 6SN7 socket. I also bought a Westinghouse 6SN7 for $1  that I use to test all amps that sounds good.



NOS quiet tubes for the cheap. 1633 tubes are like stealing at $4 each 

There is always a few favorites that people prefer as they just find a sound they love, but you can change the tone without breaking the bank.

SN7 tubes sound good in general to me...6/12/25 volt all are great


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> Which amp can supply both 25V and 6.3V  except yours?



I used to sell a adapter with a voltage quadrupler in it to use 1633&13D1 in a 6SN7 socket. But no time to make adapters anymore.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> NOS quiet tubes for the cheap. 1633 tubes are like stealing at $4 each
> 
> There is always a few favorites that people prefer as they just find a sound they love, but you can change the tone without breaking the bank.
> 
> SN7 tubes sound good in general to me...6/12/25 volt all are great



Also can get some nice 6F8G for $18 that sound great and some of them will end up being NU round plate rebranded.
For $100 you can buy 5 of them bound to find one better then a $100 6SN7. I have gotten a couple of NU round plate labeled as GE.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> NOS quiet tubes for the cheap. 1633 tubes are like stealing at $4 each
> 
> There is always a few favorites that people prefer as they just find a sound they love, but you can change the tone without breaking the bank.
> 
> SN7 tubes sound good in general to me...6/12/25 volt all are great


I agree with you. 

Congrats on the new ss amp. I also like those kings of past stuffs (amp, DAC, headphone). They will cost like 1/2 of the original price to obtain.


----------



## attmci (Dec 29, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Also can get some nice 6F8G for $18 that sound great and some of them will end up being NU round plate rebranded.
> For $100 you can buy 5 of them bound to find one better then a $100 6SN7. I have gotten a couple of NU round plate labeled as GE.


Hey Glenn, I recall that you had spent tons of $$$$ to get a pair of GEC 6AS7G.  LOL

How do you like it?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Also can get some nice 6F8G for $18 that sound great and some of them will end up being NU round plate rebranded.
> For $100 you can buy 5 of them bound to find one better then a $100 6SN7. I have gotten a couple of NU round plate labeled as GE.



I do not own any NU 6F8G, but many say how nice they sound.....that is a great price, I will keep my eyes open.






attmci said:


> I agree with you.
> 
> Congrats on the new ss amp. I also like those kings of past stuffs (amp, DAC, headphone). They will cost like 1/2 of the original price to obtain.



Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> Hey Glenn, I recall that you had spent tons of $$$$ to get a pair of GEC 6AS7G.  LOL
> 
> How do you like it?



Yea not one of my smartest moves but they sound great. Worth $400?


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I do not own any NU 6F8G, but many say how nice they sound.....that is a great price,
> 
> Get some from Stan who knows what you get some good ones at times.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> Which amp can supply both 25V and 6.3V  except yours?



None, but supplying external heat to 'other than 6.3 volt' drivers is not difficult to do.  We did it all the time, in Elise land...

I thought you loved bright because you promote the 7N7's...must sound very different in your Woo...

Apologies


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 29, 2018)

OK, thanks Glenn, I will check with Stan.


----------



## attmci (Dec 29, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> None, but supplying external heat to 'other than 6.3 volt' drivers is not difficult to do.  We did it all the time, in Elise land...
> 
> I thought you loved bright because you promote the 7N7's...must sound very different in your Woo...
> 
> Apologies


I learned from another thread here, and someone promoted a "special" sys 7N7. I just passed the info.

I had only promoted  clear-top 2399 tubes, and believe they are one of the best 6AS7Gs. However, they are rare, and I don't know what's the current price.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Santa forgot to fill my stocking with unobtanium tubes...

So enjoy, sir!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Santa forgot to fill my stocking with unobtanium tubes...
> 
> So enjoy, sir!!!



Dam he must have mistakenly dropped them off to someone else.
Not me


----------



## mordy

I enquired and tried to order the $4 1633 (Ken-Rad) tubes and $18 6F8G (National Union) tubes from ESRCVACUUMTUBES.COM but did not receive any answer.
My assumption is that they are too big with millions of tubes in inventory to bother with individual requests.

So back to eBay - The National Union 6C8G sounds excellent in the GOTL and can be found for under $15 shipped (and for even less with a little patience).


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> I enquired and tried to order the $4 1633 (Ken-Rad) tubes and $18 6F8G (National Union) tubes from ESRCVACUUMTUBES.COM but did not receive any answer.
> My assumption is that they are too big with millions of tubes in inventory to bother with individual requests.
> 
> So back to eBay - The National Union 6C8G sounds excellent in the GOTL and can be found for under $15 shipped (and for even less with a little patience).


You are right. The $18 is wholesale price.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> I enquired and tried to order the $4 1633 (Ken-Rad) tubes and $18 6F8G (National Union) tubes from ESRCVACUUMTUBES.COM but did not receive any answer.
> My assumption is that they are too big with millions of tubes in inventory to bother with individual requests.
> 
> So back to eBay - The National Union 6C8G sounds excellent in the GOTL and can be found for under $15 shipped (and for even less with a little patience).



You can't ask for specific brands when the tubes cost $4 at $4 no time to go through 100s of tubes. If you want a specific brand go to the other guys who sell them for a $100.
I can ask for a specific but I have ordered 100s of tubes form him. And I took a tour through his warehouse never seen so many tubes before.
He probably don't even know everything he has.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> You can't ask for specific brands when the tubes cost $4 at $4 no time to go through 100s of tubes. If you want a specific brand go to the other guys who sell them for a $100.
> I can ask for a specific but I have ordered 100s of tubes form him. And I took a tour through his warehouse never seen so many tubes before.
> He probably don't even know everything he has.


Since the first page of their catalog lists shipping costs for 1-6 tubes, in my innocence I assumed that I could order individual items to my specifications.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Since the first page of their catalog lists shipping costs for 1-6 tubes, in my innocence I assumed that I could order individual items to my specifications.



You can order 1-10 6as7g for $10 each, but can not ask for brand name. Sorry.


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 30, 2018)

mordy said:


> I enquired and tried to order the $4 1633 (Ken-Rad) tubes and $18 6F8G (National Union) tubes from ESRCVACUUMTUBES.COM but did not receive any answer.
> My assumption is that they are too big with millions of tubes in inventory to bother with individual requests.
> 
> So back to eBay - The National Union 6C8G sounds excellent in the GOTL and can be found for under $15 shipped (and for even less with a little patience).





They will take small individual orders mordy...but I assume they stay pretty busy ...maybe try again.
I have gotten a hold of Stan when he was driving in his car and he asked me to please call him back as he would not remember my order.

They have always filled my small orders and I have bought 5 or 6 times from him.

I have bought all of the following from them....all NOS tubes.

RCA  1633
RCA  6BX7
RCA  6BL7
42EC4   Numerous brands
Rectifiers  Numerous brands

I think most of the time i have called the phone number.
I can only imagine how many tubes must be in their warehouse.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> They will take small individual orders mordy...but I assume they stay pretty busy ...maybe try again.
> I have gotten a hold of Stan when he was driving in his car and he asked me to please call him back as he would not remember my order.
> 
> They has always filled my small orders and I have bought 5 or 6 times from him.
> ...



Stan's warehouse is something to see!!  He came in on a Sunday to give me a tour while I was in Orlando Florida.


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 30, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Stan's warehouse is something to see!!  He came in on a Sunday to give me a tour while I was in Orlando Florida.



That would be a fun time. Being able to see that many tubes in one area could give one the cold sweats  

When my father had his TV repair shop...he has a wall full of tubes..mostly RCA and Sylvania branded. The guy he bought his tubes from sold mainly Sylvania branded stuff.
Even way back then some of those high voltage tubes got expensive.
I remember he always ordered a lot of 6GH8 tubes. Everything seemed to have those in them.

I think Ken may have a small warehouse of tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> That would be a fun time. Being able to see that many tubes in one area could give one the cold sweats
> 
> When my father had his TV repair shop...he has a wall full of tubes..mostly RCA and Sylvania branded. The guy he bought his tubes from sold mainly Sylvania branded stuff.
> Even way back then some of those high voltage tubes got expensive.
> ...



When I had a TV store in the early 80s Most of my tubes were GE and RCA. The GE were the most reliable.
6GH8 some Philco color TVs had 8 of them and yes some of the big sweep tubes cost me $25 each I can get them cheaper now
when they are out of production.
Some times I use sweep tubes repairing Linear amplifiers for CB that are technically illegal unless used on 10meter ham band.
Can get 800 watts out of 4 6KG6/EL519 in intermittent use at 1000 volts on the plate.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> When I had a TV store in the early 80s Most of my tubes were GE and RCA. The GE were the most reliable.
> 6GH8 some Philco color TVs had 8 of them and yes some of the big sweep tubes cost me $25 each I can get them cheaper now
> when they are out of production.
> Some times I use sweep tubes repairing Linear amplifiers for CB that are technically illegal unless used on 10meter ham band.
> Can get 800 watts out of 4 6KG6/EL519 in intermittent use at 1000 volts on the plate.



Do you still repair Linear amplifiers for CB's


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes but not that much no time for repairs


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Yes but not that much no time for repairs



That is pretty much what I figured.

My plan for my SS  solution was going to be to buy a vintage 1970's  receiver, something pretty good and have you give it a good going over and replace the caps and such,
but I figured that you would not have time for that as you are swamped with amp builds so I just bought a SS amp.
A receiver probably would have taken up too much space anyway, but I suspect the good ones would be nice headphone amplifiers as you would not need anything crazy.

Those Linear amplifiers for CB's were a big thing back in the day....was not sure if they were still very popular.


----------



## 2359glenn

The last 300B amp discontinued to time consuming building these.


----------



## whirlwind

That looks great Glenn.  What is the small tube between the C3g tubes ?

Congrats to the lucky owner. I like the round meters to set the tube bias.


----------



## 2359glenn

That is a Amperite time delay tube 30 second without the 42EC4 rectifiers the B+ will come up to fast.
The 300Bs will conduct before the bias is all the way up causing over current in the 300Bs for a second.
Nobody wants the 42EC4 since Tony Newman had one fail tripping a circuit breaker in his house.
Don't know why the house circuit breaker tripped before the 2 Amp fuse in the amp blew.
That was the only failure of a 42EC4 that I know of.
This is another reason I am discontinuing this amp I prefer to use the 42EC4/PY500 as the rectifiers
with no time delay.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> That is pretty much what I figured.
> 
> My plan for my SS  solution was going to be to buy a vintage 1970's  receiver, something pretty good and have you give it a good going over and replace the caps and such,
> but I figured that you would not have time for that as you are swamped with amp builds so I just bought a SS amp.
> ...


What kind of ss amp did you get?
I am using an 80's Tandberg 3006A 150W power amp that should be stable into 2 Ohms. I have a 100W Outlaw RR2250 receiver where I just use the preamp section for tone controls.
I also have an 80's Sony Integrated 110W receiver that I would prefer to use since it sounds nice, but one channel cuts out all the time and I don't know if it is worth it to have it repaired.


----------



## whirlwind

I bought a 10 month old Headamp GS-X mk2


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> That is pretty much what I figured.
> 
> My plan for my SS  solution was going to be to buy a vintage 1970's  receiver, something pretty good and have you give it a good going over and replace the caps and such,
> but I figured that you would not have time for that as you are swamped with amp builds so I just bought a SS amp.
> ...



Finally a topic in this thread where I can contribute.
There are a lot of good vintage receivers on eBay that dont need work for relatively little cash.
As long as you do not opt for a "monster" (100 wpc+) you can get one in good working and cosmetic shape for around 3 bills. Frankly theres zero reason to grab a monster,unless youre planning on driving low sensitivity speakers from it as well. A 40-75wpc model will rock headphones. I use my Sansui 881(55wpc,paid $75.00) to drive many of my headphones,as well as my Focal Aria 905s.

They do take up a lot of real estate,but I had an old end table that I stuck under my comp desk,and it works great.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I bought a 10 month old Headamp GS-X mk2



How is it for your ZMFs?
I have the Gilmore Lite Mk2,which I bought mainly to drive my low impedance headphones,like my AD2000s,and it does a very nice job for those,but all the ZMFs Ive tried thru them(Auteur,Atticus,Verite,Aeolus) the bass is severely lacking.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> How is it for your ZMFs?
> I have the Gilmore Lite Mk2,which I bought mainly to drive my low impedance headphones,like my AD2000s,and it does a very nice job for those,but all the ZMFs Ive tried thru them(Auteur,Atticus,Verite,Aeolus) the bass is severely lacking.



It is great with the Ori, sub bass galore, and pretty darn detailed for a closed can....but the bass steals the show here.

I have not spent much time with the GS-X and the Atticus...can't imagine the Atticus sounding much better than with Glenn's amps.

I will eventually get around to spending some time with the Atticus and GS-X...but my guess is I will listen mostly to the Atticus with tubes.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> The last 300B amp discontinued to time consuming building these.



Beautiful amp. Congrats to the owner!


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> It is great with the Ori, sub bass galore, and pretty darn detailed for a closed can....but the bass steals the show here.
> 
> I have not spent much time with the GS-X and the Atticus...can't imagine the Atticus sounding much better than with Glenn's amps.
> 
> I will eventually get around to spending some time with the Atticus and GS-X...but my guess is I will listen mostly to the Atticus with tubes.



Yeah I would assume that it isnt as good as the Glenn. Was asking cuz im wondering if I should try to upgrade to it down the line over the GLM2 for better dynamics,or is it more of the same as what I already have?


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> The last 300B amp discontinued to time consuming building these.



Yes, indeed, Beautiful...!!!

Someone will be proud to own the last of the breed!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

This is one of my favorite tube combos in the GOTL..everything is perfect...can listen for hours:


----------



## Hansotek

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah I would assume that it isnt as good as the Glenn. Was asking cuz im wondering if I should try to upgrade to it down the line over the GLM2 for better dynamics,or is it more of the same as what I already have?



It’s going to be pretty similar overall. Unless you have a headphone that is actually hard to drive, there isn’t a ton of difference between the GLM2 and the GS-X mk2. GSX is a little more analytical and has better subbass extension. GLM2 is a little bit more forgiving.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, indeed, Beautiful...!!!
> 
> Someone will be proud to own the last of the breed!!!



Maybe I will change my mind after listening to it all day it sounds to good to discontinue.


----------



## mordy

Have been listening to EL8 with 4xBX+2x5998. Did anybody who tried  the EL8 find that it is lacking in the low bass?


----------



## gibosi

To those who have a GOTL with C3g sockets and tube rectification, I find the WIRAG EL3N and a Brimar 5R4GY to sound great.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Have been listening to EL8 with 4xBX+2x5998. Did anybody who tried  the EL8 find that it is lacking in the low bass?



Yes, I said previously they are bright, but after more listening today with several power combinations....I think they have beautiful mids and highs but lack bass balls.  I often mistake lack of bass for "brightness"...


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> To those who have a GOTL with C3g sockets and tube rectification, I find the WIRAG EL3N and a Brimar 5R4GY to sound great.



What sound mod does the Brimar 5R4GY bring, Ken?


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Have been listening to EL8 with 4xBX+2x5998. Did anybody who tried  the EL8 find that it is lacking in the low bass?



Yeah Mordy. They’re a bit lean compared to something like the National Unions. It reaches low but feels subdued. They do have a deeper sound stage compared to most other tubes. They’re also good at pulling out smaller details. I think they’re fine tubes but it doesn’t capture me with its tone. 

To be fair I’ve put around 30 hours on them and if they’re anything like the EL3Ns then maybe they need a much longer burn in time.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> Yeah Mordy. They’re a bit lean compared to something like the National Unions. It reaches low but feels subdued. They do have a deeper sound stage compared to most other tubes. They’re also good at pulling out smaller details. I think they’re fine tubes but it doesn’t capture me with its tone.
> 
> To be fair I’ve put around 30 hours on them and if they’re anything like the EL3Ns then maybe they need a much longer burn in time.



Interesting, PH...think many an hour of burn will help?  I am not enamoured with mine, either. 
Also don't care for my EL3N's in the C3g sockets, hoping to find _some_ good use for the side contact to c3g adapters...


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> What sound mod does the Brimar 5R4GY bring, Ken?



For those of you who have HEXFRED rectifiers, I find them to be fairly dark. Of all my tube rectifiers, the HEXFRED is most like the Cossor 53KU, and the Cossor is the darkest of my commonly used rectifiers. The GEC, Philips, Valvo, Brimar and Telefunken are all brighter, and some, like the Telefunken and Valvo are quite a bit brighter. And further, each rectifier adds some additional "flavoring".

So when I install a GEC rectifier the effect could be said to be similar to "marrying" a GEC 6AS7 to whatever output tubes I might have installed. It is a little hard to put into words... The Brimar seems to add bit of treble and airiness, which complements the darker EL3N, and a bit of that lushness and sweetness Brimar is known for. Further, it also packs a very solid low end. (Given that, it might be a good rectifier to use with the EL8, but I haven't tried it yet.) Anyway, I find the combination to be delicious.


----------



## Sound Trooper

The WE422A just checked in a few days ago but I didn’t have time to plug it into the GEL3N for a spin. Kinda excited that I’ll be listening to it tonight.

Here are my small collection of rectifier tubes so far:


----------



## UntilThen

Listening to the WE422a on New Year’s Eve way to go SI


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> Listening to the WE422a on New Year’s Eve way to go SI



Agreed! Not a bad way to end the year!

 First impressions: mids are lush and euphoric, highs are smooth and mid bass is satisfying as well. The Auteurs sounds silky smooth with the WE422A and female vocals are effortlessly presented in a haunting real manner. This is just 2 hours in and I expect the WE422A to continue sounding better as the tunes roll by.

Happy days ahead!


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Trooper said:


> The WE422A just checked in a few days ago but I didn’t have time to plug it into the GEL3N for a spin. Kinda excited that I’ll be listening to it tonight.
> 
> Here are my small collection of rectifier tubes so far:



Your adapter for the WE422A is on it's way.
Who knows when it will get there.


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> Your adapter for the WE422A is on it's way.
> Who knows when it will get there.



Thanks Glenn. I initially wanted to wait for the adapter before plugging the WE422A in, but as they say, resistance is futile


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Trooper said:


> Thanks Glenn. I initially wanted to wait for the adapter before plugging the WE422A in, but as they say, resistance is futile



It will work with no adapter but quieter with it. With out it 5 volts of 50 or 60 Hz goes into the filter caps
that they have to get rid of.
Still sounds good probably the best rectifier.


----------



## 2359glenn

After listening to the 300B amp all day and turning it on at 5:00am this morning it is quieter with HEXFREDS.
Turned it on this morning with no source. No sound at all from off to on other then pings when the tubes
started worming up then nothing.
Didn't think it would make a difference but yes the rectifier tubes must radiate hum from them.


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> After listening to the 300B amp all day and turning it on at 5:00am this morning it is quieter with HEXFREDS.
> Turned it on this morning with no source. No sound at all from off to on other then pings when the tubes
> started worming up then nothing.
> Didn't think it would make a difference but yes the rectifier tubes must radiate hum from them.



I always wonder how would a Glenn 300B sound like? I’d imagine it would be magical with the right tubes, but with the insane 300B prices, I think I’ll be sticking to my GEL3N for a long time. 

I’m still floored everytime I switch on my GEL3N to listen to some tunes and the character of the GEL3N would change depending on the rectifiers I roll. So far I’m loving the WE422A/Sophia Electric 274B with the ZMF Auteur while the Abyss AB-1266 Phi sounds wonderful with the Sittard GZ34.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah I would assume that it isnt as good as the Glenn. Was asking cuz im wondering if I should try to upgrade to it down the line over the GLM2 for better dynamics,or is it more of the same as what I already have?



I have never heard the GLM2 so I can't comment on that.

I will probably use the GS-X mk2 for planars...I think an LCD2.2 or LCD 3 non fazor would be great with the GS-X mk2

I will use Glenns amp for my high impedance cans.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> I have never heard the GLM2 so I can't comment on that.
> 
> I will probably use the GS-X mk2 for planars...I think an LCD2.2 or LCD 3 non fazor would be great with the GS-X mk2
> 
> I will use Glenns amp for my high impedance cans.



Hey Joe, how are you liking the GS-X mk2 so far? I have heard many good things about it but unfortunately I have not experienced them myself. I also just scored a 6 month old Schiit Ragnarok at an irresistible price and will be collecting it next week. I hope that it will be good compliment for my GEL3N.


----------



## whirlwind

I am really liking it with my Ori...I just have not tried much else yet, because I like this sound, so have just been enjoying my music.

I have not listened to SS for quite some time.  There are pros and cons and for that reason having tubes and SS seem to be the best way to cover all bases.

It can drive my Ori on L/M/H gain....listening to see what I like best...so far I would say the strong points are transparency..sub bass has been a real surprise and the noise floor is the blackest of black.

I sort of bought it like you did the Ragnarok....the price was just too good to pass on  

I have never heard the Rag, but UT owned one and liked it... I would certainly think it would be a wonderful compliment..but everybody seems to like something different.

For what it is worth and I have not spent lots of time with the GS-X mk2 yet...Glenns tube amps that I have heard and the SS amp are sort of opposites....which I consider a very good thing

Tubes are warm and romantic and my favorite sound...SS has speed, transparency, detail.
Size wise a tad wider than my EL3N ...not as deep....even though you are not suppose to stack them, I did because of space.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> I am really liking it with my Ori...I just have not tried much else yet, because I like this sound, so have just been enjoying my music.
> 
> I have not listened to SS for quite some time.  There are pros and cons and for that reason having tubes and SS seem to be the best way to cover all bases.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you are having fun! I agree with you on having both tubes and SS amps and I think this is the greatest appeal for head-if. We don’t have to be tied to just one setup to enjoy our music.

Happy listening Joe and have an even greater 2019!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> After listening to the 300B amp all day and turning it on at 5:00am this morning it is quieter with HEXFREDS.
> Turned it on this morning with no source. No sound at all from off to on other then pings when the tubes
> started worming up then nothing.
> Didn't think it would make a difference but yes the rectifier tubes must radiate hum from them.



Glenn are you listening to the Auteur with the 300B  ?

Lord, I bet that sounds glorious!


----------



## Sound Trooper

Last post for the night (SG time).


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> For those of you who have HEXFRED rectifiers, I find them to be fairly dark. Of all my tube rectifiers, the HEXFRED is most like the Cossor 53KU, and the Cossor is the darkest of my commonly used rectifiers. The GEC, Philips, Valvo, Brimar and Telefunken are all brighter, and some, like the Telefunken and Valvo are quite a bit brighter. And further, each rectifier adds some additional "flavoring".
> 
> So when I install a GEC rectifier the effect could be said to be similar to "marrying" a GEC 6AS7 to whatever output tubes I might have installed. It is a little hard to put into words... The Brimar seems to add bit of treble and airiness, which complements the darker EL3N, and a bit of that lushness and sweetness Brimar is known for. Further, it also packs a very solid low end. (Given that, it might be a good rectifier to use with the EL8, but I haven't tried it yet.) Anyway, I find the combination to be delicious.



Appreciate you thoughts rectifier tubes and sound mods, Ken. 
Also glan to hear the SS rectifier option leans dark, as that is the side of the fence, I like to be on 

Cheers....


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Last post for the night (SG time).



Great pic....are those Haltron EL3 tubes ?

Congrats on that rectifier.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Great pic....are those Haltron EL3 tubes ?
> 
> Congrats on that rectifier.



Nope.. those are Ultron EL6 tubes


----------



## JazzVinyl

I stayed up waaaaaaay toooooo late last night after stumbling upon a tube combo in the GOTL that really drew me in.  It is dead simple and fantastic in my cans, and my ears....

Ken-Rad 'staggered plate' VT-231 from the mid 1940's and a pair of the Russian 6H13C.

Dark, rich, round and tubular.  Airy, huge sound stage, big, well defined bass, just addictingly beautiful, involving sound.   I will have to be careful, or I will fall into the abyss of this sonic heaven and fail to do my chores.


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Interesting, PH...think many an hour of burn will help?  I am not enamoured with mine, either.
> Also don't care for my EL3N's in the C3g sockets, hoping to find _some_ good use for the side contact to c3g adapters...



Hey JV,

I’m not really sure but from what Glenn said and others that own the GEL3N is that those tubes take over 100+ hours before they settle in. I feel that the EL8s are in the same family and may need that much burn in time before they possibly sound better. This is all speculation on my part but I’m willing to give them the benefit of doubt and try to burn them in starting this Thursday to Monday. Hopefully by next week they’ll really start to display their true character. 

It’s unlike the FDD20s that just start off sounding great.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> Hey JV,
> 
> I’m not really sure but from what Glenn said and others that own the GEL3N is that those tubes take over 100+ hours before they settle in. I feel that the EL8s are in the same family and may need that much burn in time before they possibly sound better. This is all speculation on my part but I’m willing to give them the benefit of doubt and try to burn them in starting this Thursday to Monday. Hopefully by next week they’ll really start to display their true character.
> 
> It’s unlike the FDD20s that just start off sounding great.



Sounds good PH, I will be interested in hearing if your EL8's bass blossoms, with 100 plus hours.


----------



## UntilThen

Happy New Year everyone. I slept through the fireworks and woke up to 2019.

@whirlwind congrats on the GSX Mk2. 2018 has been quite an audio year for you.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> After listening to the 300B amp all day and turning it on at 5:00am this morning it is quieter with HEXFREDS.
> Turned it on this morning with no source. No sound at all from off to on other then pings when the tubes
> started worming up then nothing.
> Didn't think it would make a difference but yes the rectifier tubes must radiate hum from them.


I find the rectifiers make a big difference with that amp noise wise. The PY500 seem to be rather temperamental. I've thrown out 3 pairs, but the Lorenz pair and Valvo pair I have are dead silent. At least they are cheap at less than $5 each. Unlike the 300B tubes....



whirlwind said:


> Glenn are you listening to the Auteur with the 300B  ?
> Lord, I bet that sounds glorious!


I used to, bet ended up selling the Auteur. I preferred the sound signature of the LCD-3.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Happy New Year everyone. I slept through the fireworks and woke up to 2019.
> 
> @whirlwind congrats on the GSX Mk2. 2018 has been quite an audio year for you.



Thanks.
Ha, the same thing will probably happen to me this evening!




leftside said:


> I find the rectifiers make a big difference with that amp noise wise. The PY500 seem to be rather temperamental. I've thrown out 3 pairs, but the Lorenz pair and Valvo pair I have are dead silent. At least they are cheap at less than $5 each. Unlike the 300B tubes....
> 
> 
> I used to, bet ended up selling the Auteur. I preferred the sound signature of the LCD-3.



Is your LCD 3 a pre fazor by any chance.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Is your LCD 3 a pre fazor by any chance.


Fazor.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Is your LCD 3 a pre fazor by any chance.



What are the differences @whirlwind and @leftside?


----------



## leftside

Don't get me wrong, I really liked the Auteur blackwood. But, with the music I listen to and the system I have, I thought the LCD-3 had a better bass and more richer/fuller sound. My friend who came over says he slightly prefers the Auteur.  His music tastes are quite different to mine. His preferred choice of music is classical whereas mine are blues, electronic and rock.

(The LCD-4 take things to another level - like a better LCD-3 - everything seems to be 10% better).


----------



## Phantaminum

.


leftside said:


> Don't get me wrong, I really liked the Auteur blackwood. But, with the music I listen to and the system I have, I thought the LCD-3 had a better bass and more richer/fuller sound. My friend who came over says he slightly prefers the Auteur.  His music tastes are quite different to mine. His preferred choice of music is classical whereas mine are blues, electronic and rock.
> 
> (The LCD-4 take things to another level - like a better LCD-3 - everything seems to be 10% better).



For your tastes the Planars are the way to go. Electronica music especially benefits from the low bass extension and speed that planars provide. Heck, I’ve been looking for a planar myself just for this reason but I want to hold off until the Verites arrive. Hoping they’ll scratch that speed/bass itch.


----------



## gibosi

Picked up another pair of Philips EL3N. However, while most of the Philips' EL3N we see on eBay were manufactured in their WIRAG factory, located in Vienna,  these were manufactured in their Loewe Opta factory, located in Berlin.

Below, the WIRAG tube, factory code "A", to the right, manufactured in 1954, has a skinnier bottle and a chrome top. And the Loewe Opta tube, factory code "G", to the left, manufactured in 1956, has a fatter bottle and a clear top. I haven't had them in the amp long enough to form any impressions, but I am happy to report that they are quiet. 

NB: I should probably add: according to my sources, "G" was the factory code for tubes manufactured by Mullard in their Fleetwood factory until the end of February, 1954. Assuming these sources are correct, a date of manufacture of 1956 implies this "Mullard" was actually manufactured by Loewe Opta. But given that this was more than 60 years ago we probably can't be sure...


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Picked up another pair of Philips EL3N. However, while most of the Philips' EL3N we see on eBay were manufactured in their WIRAG factory, located in Vienna,  these were manufactured in their Loewe Opta factory, located in Berlin.
> 
> Below, the WIRAG tube, factory code "A", to the right, manufactured in 1954, has a skinnier bottle and a chrome top. And the Loewe Opta tube, factory code "G", to the left, manufactured in 1956, has a fatter bottle and a clear top. I haven't had them in the amp long enough to form any impressions, but I am happy to report that they are quiet.
> 
> NB: I should probably add: according to my sources, "G" was the factory code for tubes manufactured by Mullard in their Fleetwood factory until the end of February, 1954. Assuming these sources are correct, a date of manufacture of 1956 implies this "Mullard" was actually manufactured by Loewe Opta. But given that this was more than 60 years ago we probably can't be sure...




Great find.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Picked up another pair of Philips EL3N. However, while most of the Philips' EL3N we see on eBay were manufactured in their WIRAG factory, located in Vienna,  these were manufactured in their Loewe Opta factory, located in Berlin.
> 
> Below, the WIRAG tube, factory code "A", to the right, manufactured in 1954, has a skinnier bottle and a chrome top. And the Loewe Opta tube, factory code "G", to the left, manufactured in 1956, has a fatter bottle and a clear top. I haven't had them in the amp long enough to form any impressions, but I am happy to report that they are quiet.
> 
> NB: I should probably add: according to my sources, "G" was the factory code for tubes manufactured by Mullard in their Fleetwood factory until the end of February, 1954. Assuming these sources are correct, a date of manufacture of 1956 implies this "Mullard" was actually manufactured by Loewe Opta. But given that this was more than 60 years ago we probably can't be sure...



Very nice, Ken...always fun knowing the intimate details as to when and who, manufactured what.

I have a pair similar to what is described.  The clear top is labeled EL3 (no N) and while I am not in love with them by themselves, I do enjoy them as a driver triplet w/my Ken Rad staggered plate VT-231:



 

Happy New Year to you, Ken!  And to all...


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy New Year !!!


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Very nice, Ken...always fun knowing the intimate details as to when and who, manufactured what.
> 
> I have a pair similar to what is described.  The clear top is labeled EL3 (no N) and while I am not in love with them by themselves, I do enjoy them as a driver triplet w/my Ken Rad staggered plate VT-231:
> 
> ...



Those are EL3's the predecessor to the EL3N that has a more efficient cathode.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Very nice, Ken...always fun knowing the intimate details as to when and who, manufactured what.
> 
> I have a pair similar to what is described.  The clear top is labeled EL3 (no N) and while I am not in love with them by themselves, I do enjoy them as a driver triplet w/my Ken Rad staggered plate VT-231:
> 
> ...



I believe I see the WIRAG production code printed in black letters on the right-most tube. On tubes manufactured by Loewe Opta the code is printed in white letters on the bottom of the base. So I am quite sure yours are in fact WIRAG production.

And it is my understanding that all coke-bottle tubes labeled as EL3 are actually EL3N. Only EL3's with straight tubular bottles with a narrowed upper section are true EL3.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3.html


----------



## gibosi

Happy New Year to all! And I hope 2019 brings everyone some nice new tubular treasures.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> I believe I see the WIRAG production code printed in black letters on the right-most tube. On tubes manufactured by Loewe Opta the code is printed in white letters on the bottom of the base. So I am quite sure yours are in fact WIRAG production.
> 
> And it is my understanding that all coke-bottle tubes labeled as EL3 are actually EL3N. Only EL3's with straight tubular bottles with a narrowed upper section are true EL3.
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3.html



It's my opinion that my cleartop "EL3" sounds exactly the same as the "EL3N" so agree with your assessment.


----------



## Sound Trooper (Jan 1, 2019)

gibosi said:


> I believe I see the WIRAG production code printed in black letters on the right-most tube. On tubes manufactured by Loewe Opta the code is printed in white letters on the bottom of the base. So I am quite sure yours are in fact WIRAG production.
> 
> And it is my understanding that all coke-bottle tubes labeled as EL3 are actually EL3N. Only EL3's with straight tubular bottles with a narrowed upper section are true EL3.
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3.html



I have a pair of straight bottle EL3N. The straight bottle sounds similar to the coke bottle EL3N.


----------



## whirlwind

HAPPY NEW YEAR!


----------



## Sound Trooper

Happy 2019 everyone!


----------



## rnros

Happy New Year!  Best Wishes for a Happy Healthy Prosperous 2019.


----------



## gibosi

Sound Trooper said:


> I have a pair of straight bottle EL3N. The straight bottle sounds similar to the coke bottle EL3N.



I believe that your straight bottle was actually manufactured after the coke bottle. Notice that it is smaller than the coke bottle, and generally, over time, the trend was to make tubes more compact. If you compare yours to the picture here

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3.html

notice that the older EL3 was quite tall and it had what is often called a "pinched waist".


----------



## bobboxbody

Happy New Year everyone.
While thinking about my GOTL build I came across these sockets:
https://www.dhtrob.com/impressies/teflon_tellurium_ux4_en.php
They make an octal and noval base in addition to the ux4, anyone have an experience with these?


----------



## Sound Trooper

gibosi said:


> I believe that your straight bottle was actually manufactured after the coke bottle. Notice that it is smaller than the coke bottle, and generally, over time, the trend was to make tubes more compact. If you compare yours to the picture here
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3.html
> 
> notice that the older EL3 was quite tall and it had what is often called a "pinched waist".



Hey @gibosi, thanks for the information.


----------



## 2359glenn

bobboxbody said:


> Happy New Year everyone.
> While thinking about my GOTL build I came across these sockets:
> https://www.dhtrob.com/impressies/teflon_tellurium_ux4_en.php
> They make an octal and noval base in addition to the ux4, anyone have an experience with these?



They look like nice sockets.
Will have to try them a little pricey but maybe not as much as Yamamoto.


----------



## bobboxbody

2359glenn said:


> They look like nice sockets.
> Will have to try them a little pricey but maybe not as much as Yamamoto.



I'll be guinea pig if they're cheaper than Yamamoto and no one has tried them by the time my build comes around


----------



## mordy

Put a 5670 tube (6V) in an adapter and turned on the amp. When the blue power light did not turn on I realized that something was wrong and discovered that I had left the voltage switch on 25V. 
I immediately turned off the amp but think that the tube flashed up for a very short time. Did I damage the tube? (Seems to be working, but since it is a new tube I cannot tell if anything changed.)


----------



## 2359glenn

The tube should be fine.
The amp did what it should it current limited and shut down the filament supply to the driver socket.
The blue led runs off that supply that is why it didn't light.
Slick ha.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> The tube should be fine.
> The amp did what it should it current limited and shut down the filament supply to the driver socket.
> The blue led runs off that supply that is why it didn't light.
> Slick ha.


Thanks


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> They look like nice sockets.
> Will have to try them a little pricey but maybe not as much as Yamamoto.



Could be a good alternative to Yamamoto if they price happens to be better.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jan 2, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> It's been almost one year since I had the GOTL. A beautiful year it has been. I've never had so much fun with any headphone amp before and one that has so many tube options. I open up the amp and was pleasantly surprised that the insides still look as good as new.
> 
> I tried a few drivers tonight. First up was again Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. Power tubes were a mixture of Los Gatos and Fivre 6bx7gt power tubes - naturally 6 of them. Incredible. Love the 6sn7w. Next was the Mullard M8136. This is the only 12AU7 I have. Great tone. Love it. Cost me $100 ! Next tried Valvo EL8 again. There's something about the sound of these strapped triodes - incredible instruments separation and 3D sound effects.
> 
> Then back again to the Mullard EL32. I even pop in the Mullard M8136 to make it an all Mullard driver combination. Very good but I prefer it pure. So off comes the M8136. Now only Mullard EL32 with 6 x 6bx7gt. These Mullard EL32 have such an endearing laid back tone, that is also incredibly clear with superb instruments separation, with incredible soundstage, presenting your music in the most nuanced, articulate manner that is totally engrossing. It's past 1am and I'm still listening to music. Life's good.


Hi UT, quite interesting to still see you on these forums... moreso that by some odd random chance or even miracle, your (current at least) top favorite tube  combo EL32 + 6Bx7 on the *Ulysses *just so happens to be the same tubes I've had tucked away in storage for my *Euforia *since my travels began 6 months ago. Though I have 6x 6BL7, I wonder if there's much difference vs. BX on your amp. I've also got the latest & what seems to be all-time greatest tubes by its' praise on the Euforia thread anyway - 6x Coke shaped EL38; along with dozens of others I'm holding onto in case I'm able to go for this amp, such as EL11 /12's of several types, 12Av7, etc. Though I guess for this amp I would need a C3G rather than 6SN7 adapter for quite a few of my collection.



mordy said:


> Trying to figure out the differences between the EL11 and the EL32. They ARE different, but in what way? Both superlative driver tubes in the GOTL.
> The EL11 is more forward, energetic, in your face. The EL32 is more laid back, more relaxed. The EL11 puts more emphasis on the mid range, but the entire FR is well represented with a very dynamic presentation. The EL32 has a more even FR across with stronger bass impact and sub bass than the EL11. And the EL32 has better instrument separation.
> So the question is: What do you like better? Chocolate Vanilla with chocolate chips ice cream or Cherry Vanilla with cherry pieces ice cream?
> 
> ...


Hey Mordy, going by memory with my Euforia I also agree with your take on EL11's vs. EL32, except on the Euforia it was the EL11's and especailly EL12's that were fuller on the low end, and the EL32 had a somewhat thinner sound, albiet still with immaculate instrument separation, detail, etc. I suppose the EL32's play better with this heftier amp.


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Hi UT, quite interesting to still see you on these forums... moreso that by some odd random chance or even miracle, your (current at least) top favorite tube  combo EL32 + 6Bx7 on the *Ulysses *just so happens to be the same tubes I've had tucked away in storage for my *Euforia *since my travels began 6 months ago. Though I have 6x 6BL7, I wonder if there's much difference vs. BX on your amp. I've also got the latest & what seems to be all-time greatest tubes by its' praise on the Euforia thread anyway - 6x Coke shaped EL38; along with dozens of others I'm holding onto in case I'm able to go for this amp, such as EL11 /12's of several types, 12Av7, etc. Though I guess for this amp I would need a C3G rather than 6SN7 adapter for quite a few of my collection.
> 
> 
> Hey Mordy, going by memory with my Euforia I also agree with your take on EL11's vs. EL32, except on the Euforia it was the EL11's and especailly EL12's that were fuller on the low end, and the EL32 had a somewhat thinner sound, albiet still with immaculate instrument separation, detail, etc. I suppose the EL32's play better with this heftier amp.


Hi DL,
The EL32 seemed very promising in the beginning listening to them in the GOTL, but after a while problems came up with a lot of pops and crackles. Others also seemed to have similar issues that only showed up after using the tubes for a while, so I discontinued using them in the GOTL.
Don't have an explanation for this incompatibility - could be related to the adapters or lack of synergy with power tubes - just don't know yet where the problem is .


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> The EL32 seemed very promising in the beginning listening to them in the GOTL, but after a while problems came up with a lot of pops and crackles. Others also seemed to have similar issues that only showed up after using the tubes for a while, so I discontinued using them in the GOTL.
> Don't have an explanation for this incompatibility - could be related to the adapters or lack of synergy with power tubes - just don't know yet where the problem is .


Mordy, do you know what's the plate current and voltage when you use the EL32 on your GOTL?


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Mordy, do you know what's the plate current and voltage when you use the EL32 on your GOTL?


This knowledge is beyond me - maybe Glenn can shed some light on it. All
I know is that the EL32 is a pentode and draws 0.2A.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 3, 2019)

Back the old grind today, folks...but:

 

Relaxing music being presented by Driver Triplet...is oh so nice...


----------



## attmci (Jan 3, 2019)

mordy said:


> This knowledge is beyond me - maybe Glenn can shed some light on it. All
> I know is that the EL32 is a pentode and draws 0.2A.


No problem with tube rolling.

At some point, you may need a little bit help to improve the SQ with something like this (Emm):

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649381140-emm-labs-dac2x-v2/


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> No problem with tube rolling.
> 
> At some point, you may need a little bit help with something like this guy:
> 
> https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649381140-emm-labs-dac2x-v2/


I am not sure what you mean with the reference above.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> I am not sure what you mean with the reference above.


A better DAC?


----------



## mordy

Got it.
But I am not spending $6,500.00 on a used DAC. I have a great DAC that I am very happy with - oldies but goodies:




And if you want to know how much it cost you can afford it!


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> A better DAC?



That used DAC seems reasonably priced at $6,500.00 'eh?   Is that what you have, attmci?

I think Mordy's 0.2 amp for EL32 represented the 6.5 volt heater current draw.

But I think you asked him what plate voltage at how many amps when the EL32 is used in the C3g socket in the GOTL?

Glenn knows for sure but I think the C3g socket gets 300 volts DC delivered to the plate, at a very small fraction of a single amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Got it.
> But I am not spending $6,500.00 on a used DAC. I have a great DAC that I am very happy with - oldies but goodies:
> 
> 
> ...



Nice, Mordy,

I have this same V-DAC, in one of my systems, and I too, think it does a very nice job.  Mine is fed by a 700 + 1, CD Jukebox.


----------



## attmci (Feb 2, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> That used DAC seems reasonably priced at $6,500.00 'eh?   Is that what you have, attmci?
> 
> I think Mordy's 0.2 amp for EL32 represented the 6.5 volt heater current draw.
> 
> ...


Nope. I still have a modi. Similar to the V-dac. 
Little baby comparing to those monster DACs I am using now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> Nope. I still have a modi. Similar to the V-dac.
> Little baby comparing to those monster DAC.



Yes, I bought the Modi MultiBit when it first came out.    In a blind test, I could not distinguish it from the V-DAC, so back it went


----------



## JazzVinyl

Question for @gibosi:

Is there any reliable way to distinguish a "real" National Union tube from a rebadge?


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Question for @gibosi:
> 
> Is there any reliable way to distinguish a "real" National Union tube from a rebadge?



I assume you are talking about the 6F8G? The most distinguishing features are round plates and clear glass. Although labeled as a Philco, dated the last quarter of 1943, this tube was in fact manufactured by National Union.



When trying to identify 6F8G, I have found it useful to compare the wire connecting the grid to the top cap. It seems each manufacturer twisted and shaped this wire differently. This shape is typical for an NU 6F8G.



And finally, the shape of the top mica and the presence and shape of tensioning springs.


----------



## mordy

What is the purpose of the tension springs? I thought that they were heat sinks.


----------



## mordy

Is this Philco a NU?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-VINTAGE-...=item3b23da6bfb:g:q3oAAOSwNUlcADlS:rk:30:pf:0


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> What is the purpose of the tension springs? I thought that they were heat sinks.



Given that microphonics is an inherent problem in vacuum tubes, tension springs such as these were commonly used to keep the various electrodes from moving with respect to each other.

And yes, while the picture is not the greatest, that Philco does appear to be an NU.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Is this Philco a NU?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-VINTAGE-...=item3b23da6bfb:g:q3oAAOSwNUlcADlS:rk:30:pf:0



Good find Mordy! That’s definitely a NU from the looks of it.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I assume you are talking about the 6F8G? The most distinguishing features are round plates and clear glass. Although labeled as a Philco, dated the last quarter of 1943, this tube was in fact manufactured by National Union.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




As always, great pics and description!


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> What is the purpose of the tension springs? I thought that they were heat sinks.



Typically, heat sinks, or radiators, are small pieces of sheet metal soldered to the grid posts. Since the physical distance between the grid and cathode is very small, sometimes it was necessary to install heat radiators in order to keep the grid from becoming overheated. If the grid were to get hot enough, it might begin to act like a second cathode, which is definitely not a good thing...

Usually, I see heat radiators soldered to the grid posts above the top mica, but sometimes they appear below the bottom mica as well.

Below, a Mullard ECC31 with heat radiators.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> I assume you are talking about the 6F8G? The most distinguishing features are round plates and clear glass. Although labeled as a Philco, dated the last quarter of 1943, this tube was in fact manufactured by National Union.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Excellent description, g...appreciate!

Here is another rebrand that appears to be an NU:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Type-6F8G-...n-amplifier-radio-ST-shape-6F8GT/233048724942


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Excellent description, g...appreciate!
> 
> Here is another rebrand that appears to be an NU:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Type-6F8G-...n-amplifier-radio-ST-shape-6F8GT/233048724942



It sure does!


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> It sure does!





JazzVinyl said:


> Excellent description, g...appreciate!
> 
> Here is another rebrand that appears to be an NU:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Type-6F8G-...n-amplifier-radio-ST-shape-6F8GT/233048724942



I’ve never seen a NU with those yellow braids coming up from the bottom. Maybe I just haven’t looked at them enough. That’s new!


----------



## attmci

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve never seen a NU with those yellow braids coming up from the bottom. Maybe I just haven’t looked at them enough. That’s new!


Agree with you. None of mine has that.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve never seen a NU with those yellow braids coming up from the bottom. Maybe I just haven’t looked at them enough. That’s new!



And maybe it is not an NU...now that I look closer at the plates....are they "half round"? Hard to tell...


----------



## gibosi

I have several NU 6F8G, and they all have that braiding. However, the braiding is a silvery color in some and yellow in others.


----------



## attmci (Jan 4, 2019)

gibosi said:


> I have several NU 6F8G, and they all have that braiding. However, the braiding is a silvery color in some and yellow in others.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1200#post-13989023

Mine.

Phantaminum has keen eye.....


----------



## rnros (Jan 5, 2019)

One of my NU 6F8Gs also has the yellow braid insulation. The tube on the right is the 6F8G.
(Photo from an earlier discussion in November.)


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 5, 2019)

rnros said:


> One of my NU 6F8Gs also has the yellow braid insulation. The tube on the right is the 6F8G.
> (Photo from an earlier discussion in November.)



Very nice, @rnros, how do you like your NU 6F8G?


----------



## rnros (Jan 5, 2019)

Also came across this photo when posting the above 6F8G photo...

Looking back to 2017 and the first couple of months with the GOTL, I was stunned by the performance of this trio, 1641/C3g/6336B.
Still am. And so many more tube trios since then. Just a wonderful amp. Thanks goes to Glenn for this incredible amp at such a reasonable price.
Amazing that so many modestly priced tubes sound so good in GOTL.


----------



## rnros (Jan 5, 2019)

That tube is still pristine NOS, looks like it was only inserted once for testing. And I did the same, just a quick test when received.
So don't have a real opinion yet.

However, bought it because I liked the NU 6C8G. The Ken Rad and the NU were my favorite 6C8Gs among the usual suspects.
Some have said the 6F8G and 6C8G sound the same. IDK, never did an A/B with them.
So, FWIW, what I liked about the 6C8G versions was the stage projection and even handed FR, a natural sound with good extension at both ends.
And that is with a GungnirMB DAC and AeonC, both of which have solid, accurate capability at the low end.
Found the Tung Sol to have more bass, but overall not as appealing to me on my gear.


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Jan 5, 2019)




----------



## mordy

In the last post I cannot see the images - only a thumbnail drawing showing a cloud and a tree and the letters IMG.
What do I need to see the images?


----------



## 2359glenn

I just get IMG


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> In the last post I cannot see the images - only a thumbnail drawing showing a cloud and a tree and the letters IMG.
> What do I need to see the images?



Could be something is going on with Head-Fi's image server. May have to upload to a different host and link the image instead.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Good find Mordy! That’s definitely a NU from the looks of it.



It looks to me that NU rebranded 6F8G tubes could be labeled Philco and GE. All I need now is to find one for $10 shipped!
I really like the NU 6C8G - does anybody know if it sounds the same as the NU 6F8G?


----------



## FunctionalDoc

How


mordy said:


> In the last post I cannot see the images - only a thumbnail drawing showing a cloud and a tree and the letters IMG.
> What do I need to see the images?



I tried copying a link from Google photos to put a picture of the Verite I received today.

Is there a better way to due post with a photo? 

I am excited to give it a work out on my Glenn.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> It looks to me that NU rebranded 6F8G tubes could be labeled Philco and GE. All I need now is to find one for $10 shipped!
> I really like the NU 6C8G - does anybody know if it sounds the same as the NU 6F8G?



From what @gibosi has mentioned previously he mentioned and from other head-fiers I trust they basically sound the same. I think the only big difference is the gain with the 6C8Gs being higher. I would definitely buy a 6F8G tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> It looks to me that NU rebranded 6F8G tubes could be labeled Philco and GE. All I need now is to find one for $10 shipped!
> I really like the NU 6C8G - does anybody know if it sounds the same as the NU 6F8G?



I made an offer that was accepted on the GE / NU 6F8G, remember @gibosi saying the NU stood out in the 6F8g pack, I have no 6C8G's...

Good luck on a $10.00 one, @mordy.....

And congrats to @FunctionalDoc on his 'exotic cone material'  'phones!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

rnros said:


> Also came across this photo when posting the above 6F8G photo...
> 
> Looking back to 2017 and the first couple of months with the GOTL, I was stunned by the performance of this trio, 1641/C3g/6336B.
> Still am. And so many more tube trios since then. Just a wonderful amp. Thanks goes to Glenn for this incredible amp at such a reasonable price.
> Amazing that so many modestly priced tubes sound so good in GOTL.



Yes, in my SS rectifier GOTL, the C3g/5998 combination is absolutely stunning....


----------



## whirlwind

FunctionalDoc said:


> How
> 
> 
> I tried copying a link from Google photos to put a picture of the Verite I received today.
> ...



Oh man, I can't view the image either...sure would like to see that !


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Lets try this again I put the link from a different source for my new Verite.

I an hoping to get my GOTL very soon to have a showdown with the Auteurs

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ei73sql56iev2xr/IMG_20190105_141021.jpg?dl=0


----------



## JazzVinyl

FunctionalDoc said:


> Lets try this again I put the link from a different source for my new Verite.
> 
> I an hoping to get my GOTL very soon to have a showdown with the Auteurs
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ei73sql56iev2xr/IMG_20190105_141021.jpg?dl=0



I took the liberty to download @FunctionalDoc's photo...and upload it here:

 

Beautiful...!!!  Congrats!!


----------



## FunctionalDoc

THANKS.

Any suggestions on how to upload a picture on this site?


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> I took the liberty to download @FunctionalDoc's photo...and upload it here:
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful...!!!  Congrats!!



Very nice. Good times ahead for you sir.

Makes me want to hear them.

Great looking headphone, bet it sounds just as good.


----------



## JazzVinyl

FunctionalDoc said:


> THANKS.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to upload a picture on this site?



You need to have the photo stored locally (on your hard drive) then press "upload a file" and browse and select the photo...complete the upload then there is a link to insert the image as thumbnail, or full image....always select thumbnail, unless you have resized the photo, to be much smaller, for web viewing.


----------



## Phantaminum

FunctionalDoc said:


> THANKS.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to upload a picture on this site?



Congrats on the Verites! I’m assuming that they’re Pheasantwood? Can’t wait for mine to come in.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> Congrats on the Verites! I’m assuming that they’re Pheasantwood? Can’t wait for mine to come in.



Congrats to you also!


----------



## FunctionalDoc

JazzVinyl said:


> You need to have the photo stored locally (on your hard drive) then press "upload a file" and browse and select the photo...complete the upload then there is a link to insert the image as thumbnail, or full image....always select thumbnail, unless you have resized the photo, to be much smaller, for web viewing.




Thanks yes they are Pheasant wood and so far not on Glenn but on the THX AAA 789 amp and Topping DX7s  Dac running balanced the detail and sound stage and speed goes to the Verite.


----------



## gibosi

For the 300B addicts among us, it will be possible to pre-order the new WE 300B beginning January 11:

http://www.westernelectric.com/products/300b.html

As for me, I'm enjoying the GOTL way too much to ever be tempted.


----------



## 2359glenn

Cool.
And the price is lower then some new production.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Beautiful silky mids and highs of the "Frankie" 7N7 have a big sub bass and layers of mid details added via EL3N...send this to 6H13C powers...sounds very nice in my high impedance Sennheisers...


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> For the 300B addicts among us, it will be possible to pre-order the new WE 300B beginning January 11:
> 
> http://www.westernelectric.com/products/300b.html
> 
> As for me, I'm enjoying the GOTL way too much to ever be tempted.


Read through some of the literature.
Expected life span of the new WE 300B tube: 40,000 hours
If you send in the warranty card the warranty is for 5 years, which means that you can leave it on for almost 5 years continously.....


----------



## attmci (Jan 6, 2019)

gibosi said:


> For the 300B addicts among us, it will be possible to pre-order the new WE 300B beginning January 11:
> 
> http://www.westernelectric.com/products/300b.html
> 
> As for me, I'm enjoying the GOTL way too much to ever be tempted.


Wow, very reasonable price (if they are as good as the NOS ones).


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Read through some of the literature.
> Expected life span of the new WE 300B tube: 40,000 hours
> If you send in the warranty card the warranty is for 5 years, which means that you can leave it on for almost 5 years continously.....



Let me see if I can maths right. Say you put in a good 40 hours a week on the WE 300Bs. You have 52 weeks in a year so 40 x 52 = 2080 hours a year.

The lifespan of the tubes are 40,000 hours so let’s divide 40,000/2080. Give or take we’re looking at around 19 years of life. Great googly moogly!


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Let me see if I can maths right. Say you put in a good 40 hours a week on the WE 300Bs. You have 52 weeks in a year so 40 x 52 = 2080 hours a year.
> 
> The lifespan of the tubes are 40,000 hours so let’s divide 40,000/2080. Give or take we’re looking at around 19 years of life. Great googly moogly!



I plan on getting a pair but going to wait for them to be in production for awhile. Just in case there are bugs in the first runs.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 7, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> I plan on getting a pair but going to wait for them to be in production for awhile. Just in case there are bugs in the first runs.



Good idea Glenn. You just never know what you're going to get when the first batch runs and they start to receive feedback from their customers.

I think if this was a few months ago and the feedback was great I would of sprung for your 300B amp. Always wanted to have a listen to that type of amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

I just bought the last 20 EL3Ns in the US so I have some to build amps. Got them for $15 each.

Oh @mordy I got you a Philco/NU 6F8G for $18 I will sell it to you for what I paid plus what it costs to ship it to you.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Phantaminum said:


> Let me see if I can maths right. Say you put in a good 40 hours a week on the WE 300Bs. You have 52 weeks in a year so 40 x 52 = 2080 hours a year.
> 
> The lifespan of the tubes are 40,000 hours so let’s divide 40,000/2080. Give or take we’re looking at around 19 years of life. Great googly moogly!



Do they specify at what plate dissipation this lifespan is rated for?  If it is a value substantially below the operating max limit then a bit of marketing shenanigans are at work here.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Everyday I ask myself...."do I really have ENOUGH deep, powerful bass?"




 

Oh yes...now we have enough!

Break out that bass clarinet,  and let 'er sing.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Still too bright for ya?  Remove the EL8's and add a pair of 6BX7's to the power rack....


----------



## Phantaminum

I was rummaging through the tubes stash and finally found my embossed C3G Lorenz. I remember putting them in the first time and really not liking them but that was with them paired with the Auteurs.

Not sure what's going on with the Siemen's C3G but I haven't been digging them as of lately. Put in the Lorenz and my eyebrows raised up. They pair really really well with the HD650s. I think that they push the vocals forward and just caters to what I look for. Very nice tubes and I’m glad I gave them another try. I feel like the Siemen c3gs have a flatter FR throughout the mids compared to the Lorenz. I also feel the Lorenz have better tonality.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> I was rummaging through the tubes stash and finally found my embossed C3G Lorenz. I remember putting them in the first time and really not liking them but that was with them paired with the Auteurs.
> 
> Not sure what's going on with the Siemen's C3G but I haven't been digging them as of lately. Put in the Lorenz and my eyebrows raised up. They pair really really well with the HD650s. I think that they push the vocals forward and just caters to what I look for. Very nice tubes and I’m glad I gave them another try. I feel like the Siemen c3gs have a flatter FR throughout the mids compared to the Lorenz. I also feel the Lorenz have better tonality.



Nice!!   I would love to hear the Lorenz's.  I have the HD650's too, but prefer my modded, silver cabled HD580's that are multiple decades old.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ok...  I'm thinking of buying the otl.   I've read a couple hundred pages of this thread.  I've talked to Glenn.  There's so much info spread so far apart, I thought I'd just ask:   

What are people's thoughts on the C3g?   Yes, no, nice to have but not crucial?  

Caps?  I'm thinking probably no, unless there is significant sonic improvements to be had.  

Definitely going for the 6/12/25 switch.  6998 switch though, or no?  

What did you guys get, and what do you suggest for new Glenn customers?   Note: I'm not a newbie to OTL amps, having had 3 prior to this.  I'm also approaching this with a pragmatic attitude.  No frills needed.

Help a guy out.


----------



## Mfalcon

Howdy All,
I wanted to tell everyone how happy I am with my new Glenn 300b.  I received it last Friday.  I got it hooked up that night but this past weekend and early week we have had house guests so I've not been able to use it as much as I'd like. 

My version is a "permanent hexfred" or what I would say is using solid state rectification.  It uses c3g tubes as the drivers and obviously 300b as the rectifiers.  It has speaker outputs as well as headphones outputs.

I plan to use it more for speakers except when my in laws come and stay.  At home I listen on speakers about 80% of the time.  But the hours I've put on it so far have been headphones.  I have a pair of Audeze LCD3s, Sennheiser 800s, and Sony closed back Z1s.  So far I've only tried my favorites the LCD3s.  They are driven effortlessly.  The mid range is like silk but this is fantastic throughout the range.  The highs are dark because that is how the LCD3s are but I've not come across a 300b amp that has a fatiguing presentation.  I've had Sennheisers be fatiguing out of the wrong amp before but I don't think that will be the case hear.

Around 20 years ago I hear a 300b amp connected to high efficiency speakers and have wanted one ever since.  So this has been a dream for me.  I figured they were always going to be too pricy but Glenns are attainable and more functional (a speaker amp that I can use for cans without a wiring harness and hassle).  I have a pair of omega speakers that are 95db sensitive so I don't expect any problems.  I've had a First Watt SIT amp for a few years as my only source of speaker amplification.  I have a Sim Audio 430HAD as my other head amp.

I am not an audio reviewer, and sadly have not put in a lot of time yet.  But am very happy with it.  No problems.  Fired it up out the box with noise free operation.  The sound is beautiful

The build quality is amazing.  I would say this is AT THE LEAST on par with most high end audio builds.  Better than some (cough Woo cough).  It is a tank and has a nice simple beauty to it.  I really want to put it on its own stand.  Make it a shrine. 

I am very happy with my purchase.  I have a pair of KR 300b and Tastukis which I told myself I wouldn't buy but they went on sale and I lacked self control.  Siemens c3g. 

Please excuse my horrible iPhone photo skills.  As you can see I need a better place to put it aesthetically but this will due for now.


----------



## felix3650

2359glenn said:


> I just bought the last 20 EL3Ns in the US so I have some to build amps. Got them for $15 each.


Enough to build mine too


----------



## UntilThen (Jan 8, 2019)

ProfFalkin said:


> Ok...  I'm thinking of buying the otl.   I've read a couple hundred pages of this thread.  I've talked to Glenn.  There's so much info spread so far apart, I thought I'd just ask:
> 
> What are people's thoughts on the C3g?   Yes, no, nice to have but not crucial?
> 
> ...



Having gone through one Glenn OTL, I would still go with what I have, which is:-

6 x 6bl7 or 2 / 4 6as7g for power tubes
C3gs for drivers
6sn7/ 12sn7 / 25sn7 for drivers
Lundahl transformer
Russian Pio caps
Hexfred rectifier
Gold Point 47 steps attenuator. (This is optional but I like it)

I had the 5998 boost switch but hardly use it.


----------



## whirlwind

ProfFalkin said:


> Ok...  I'm thinking of buying the otl.   I've read a couple hundred pages of this thread.  I've talked to Glenn.  There's so much info spread so far apart, I thought I'd just ask:
> 
> What are people's thoughts on the C3g?   Yes, no, nice to have but not crucial?
> 
> ...



6 Power Sockets
C3g
6/12/25 volt driver option
Everything else would be personal preference IMHO, but the Lundahl is pretty sweet.








Mfalcon said:


> Howdy All,
> I wanted to tell everyone how happy I am with my new Glenn 300b.  I received it last Friday.  I got it hooked up that night but this past weekend and early week we have had house guests so I've not been able to use it as much as I'd like.
> 
> My version is a "permanent hexfred" or what I would say is using solid state rectification.  It uses c3g tubes as the drivers and obviously 300b as the rectifiers.  It has speaker outputs as well as headphones outputs.
> ...


 
Congrats on your new amp, it looks fantastic..
Some killer gear that you own....enjoy    

I want to try an LCD 3 pre-fazor


----------



## rnros (Jan 8, 2019)

ProfFalkin said:


> Ok...  I'm thinking of buying the otl.   I've read a couple hundred pages of this thread.  I've talked to Glenn.  There's so much info spread so far apart, I thought I'd just ask:
> 
> What are people's thoughts on the C3g?   Yes, no, nice to have but not crucial?
> 
> ...



Definite yes on 6 power sockets, 6/12/25 switch, C3g, Lundhal trans.
You can also use the very fine Deyan EL tube adapters in the C3g sockets if you have that interest.
Don't underestimate Glenn's standard PIO caps, sound is exceptional.
Hexfred rectifiers are the way to go if you want eliminate the added cost and effort of rectifier tubes.
Don't have the 5998 switch, don't miss it. Sound of 5998s in standard configuration is outstanding.


----------



## rnros

Mfalcon said:


> Howdy All,
> I wanted to tell everyone how happy I am with my new Glenn 300b.  I received it last Friday.  I got it hooked up that night but this past weekend and early week we have had house guests so I've not been able to use it as much as I'd like.
> 
> My version is a "permanent hexfred" or what I would say is using solid state rectification.  It uses c3g tubes as the drivers and obviously 300b as the rectifiers.  It has speaker outputs as well as headphones outputs.
> ...



Congrats on that beautiful Glenn 300B. Guess if your 300B dream came true, maybe mine will also!  : )
Nice write-up, and looking forward to hearing more about the 300B with your speakers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mfalcon said:


> My version is a "permanent hexfred" or what I would say is using solid state rectification.  It uses c3g tubes as the drivers and obviously 300b as the rectifiers.  It has speaker outputs as well as headphones outputs.



Huge congrats on your beautiful 300B amp!!

You got the time delay tube that waits until the 300B’s are ready to accept the SS rectified plate voltage! A unique solution that our resident tube genius came up with 

BTW, the 300B’s are your power tubes, not rectifiers, I believe...

Congrats again on yout unique, custom amplifier!!!

Look forward to more impressions.


----------



## Phantaminum

Mfalcon said:


> Howdy All,
> I wanted to tell everyone how happy I am with my new Glenn 300b.  I received it last Friday.  I got it hooked up that night but this past weekend and early week we have had house guests so I've not been able to use it as much as I'd like.
> 
> My version is a "permanent hexfred" or what I would say is using solid state rectification.  It uses c3g tubes as the drivers and obviously 300b as the rectifiers.  It has speaker outputs as well as headphones outputs.
> ...



Congratulations!

Beautiful looking amp and gobs of power. Spot on on Glenn’s build and his passion just seeps out of it. Give us an update when you try them out with your other headphones and your speakers.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 8, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice!!   I would love to hear the Lorenz's.  I have the HD650's too, but prefer my modded, silver cabled HD580's that are multiple decades old.



It’s a great pair for sure. They run around $100 on eBay for two.

Speaking of pairing I’ve purchased a triplet of Mullard Pinched Waist ecc801s that you recommended. I need to go back and see what combination was your favorite with this tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> It’s a great pair for sure. They run around $100 on eBay for two.
> 
> Speaking of pairing I’ve purchased a triplet of Mullard Pinched Waist ecc801s that you recommended. I need to go back and see what combination was your favorite with this tube.



Think I have Mazda ECC804...

@gibosi suggested it initially, great, lively tube!!


----------



## leftside

Mfalcon said:


> Howdy All,
> I wanted to tell everyone how happy I am with my new Glenn 300b.  I received it last Friday.  I got it hooked up that night but this past weekend and early week we have had house guests so I've not been able to use it as much as I'd like.


Welcome to the club! There's not many of us on here.

We also seem to have the same headphones, tubes and turntable. I'm thinking about the WE 300B, but I'll wait until next year. I  think the upcoming WE 300B is the reason why the Taks have come down in price. 

I found it tricky to get the turntable level with the existing feet. So, I had a local woodworker create me a wooden platform. I purchased adjustable feet and attached these to the wooden platform. This was relatively easy to level, and then adjusting the level of the turntable on top of an already level platform was a breeze.

If you did more headphone listening, I'd try and sell you on how well the 300B and LCD-4's blend together  The LCD-4's are very hard to drive well, but the 300B seems to positively enjoy being paired with these headphones.


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Think I have Mazda ECC804...
> 
> @gibosi suggested it initially, great, lively tube!!



*Face palm* Well then I have another tube to buy lol. I must have been thinking about the Mullards from a different thread.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 8, 2019)

The ECC804 sounds a lot like a pair of C3g!!!


----------



## leftside

Noticed a few structural differences with various GEC 6AS7Gs:
- Earlier ones have a higher "shoulder" and narrower glass body. 
- Earlier ones also have a chrome top. 
- Whether the base is squarer or rounder seems to be random, and not dependent upon whether the tube is earlier or later. 
- One that has a rectangular getter (the earliest one). The rest have the more common inverted saucer getter. 

Can't say I've noticed a difference in sound between them in the WA22. Here's a few pics (oldest 1954 to latest 1962):


----------



## JazzVinyl

It's Jeff Beck night, and a musician of this quality, deserves the best "electron separation from random atoms"...

So...did this, because PH reminded me how fine the ECC804 is...



 

Cheers, peoples!!!


----------



## Mfalcon

JazzVinyl said:


> BTW, the 300B’s are your power tubes, not rectifiers, I believe...



Yep, sorry about that.  I've had a long week with house guests and a family friend passed (he had bad cancer without any hope for about a year so it was a mercy but still tough)



leftside said:


> Welcome to the club! There's not many of us on here.
> 
> We also seem to have the same headphones, tubes and turntable. I'm thinking about the WE 300B, but I'll wait until next year. I  think the upcoming WE 300B is the reason why the Taks have come down in price.
> 
> ...



I know I'd love the LCD-4s.  I have a local dealer in town and he has a pair I believe.  I just know that I'd like them, and if something happens (in-laws move in permanently or something) I would take a long look.


----------



## Mfalcon

I've had my first long speaker listening session with my new Glenn 300b.  I listened to Mary Halvorson's Away With You all the way through.  It is probably the album that has come out in the past few years that I've really worn out and am very familiar with it.  I was really blown away.  The things I notice (and the things on most gear that happen to stand out to me first) are the beautiful tone of the instruments and intimate warm but never mushy feeling.  I then just went through and picked some random pop, jazz, and rock tunes to see how they sound.  Tunes I'm very familiar with.  David Bowie's Station to Station, Mingus Better Git In Your Soul, Beatles She Said She Said, Tori Amos Little Earthquakes, and a song I discovered last year when I watched the movie Call Me By Your Name, Sufjan Steven's Mystery of Love.  I have never heard Sufjan before, I've heard the name and was aware of him, but never paid much attention.  That song is so good.  Even though the vocals are processed they still sound beautiful.  I loved that movie and whole soundtrack.  
At the moment I'm enjoying listening.  Not in the mood to do any comparing.  I'll tell you about my setup more.  My speakers passively roll off starting roughly around 80 hz so I have two 8 inch Omega subwoofers that pick up around there.  I spent a lot of time with Rew and a measurement mic really getting it right.  There are no crossovers in my speaker, the subwoofer just picks up where the speaker rolls off and I get a pretty smooth response.  My listening room is small but not bad acoustically so I get a pretty smooth response with only a touch of treatment.
So I just hooked up the Glenn in place of the First Watt and it sounded good from the first note.  I was worried that the amp would be different at my crossover point requiring a readjustment but it didn't.  A small problem I'm having is that I'm using my Sim 430 HA as a preamp (sounds good and functionally it's amazing) so I'm putting the volume one notch from the top on my Glenn and controlling volume with the Moon.  I don't know if that's optimal but it sounds fine.  I like the Sim in the chain for a few reasons (for speaker listening, for cans I'm going straight from the DAC to the Glenn) but the main reason I like it is the functionality.  I'm not sure which volume potentiometer is better, they both sound great to me.

I'm actually in a tough spot because the LCD-3s sounded the best I've ever heard them, but I just want to listen on the speakers after tonight.

Y'all have a good one.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> It's Jeff Beck night, and a musician of this quality, deserves the best "electron separation from random atoms"...
> 
> So...did this, because PH reminded me how fine the ECC804 is...
> 
> ...




What a fantastic player he is, one of my favorites for sure.
You have sold me on listening to one of his albums this evening.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> What a fantastic player he is, one of my favorites for sure.
> You have sold me on listening to one of his albums this evening.



I saw Jeff Beck once in the 90's in Norfolk, VA...fantastic show and he reminded everyone that he had never had a "hit" on the radio and that he owed his career to faithful fans who bought his LP's...

Love his recent "Emotion and Commotion" and his live at Ronnie Scott's, that has the young female bass player: Tal Wakenfeld.  I have this DVD also, and she is way low in volume in the mix on the DVD, but she came through loud and powerful on the CD last night, via this tube compliment.  

Was like "being there".  Very Fun!!


----------



## leftside

Mfalcon said:


> A small problem I'm having is that I'm using my Sim 430 HA as a preamp (sounds good and functionally it's amazing) so I'm putting the volume one notch from the top on my Glenn and controlling volume with the Moon.  I don't know if that's optimal but it sounds fine.  I like the Sim in the chain for a few reasons (for speaker listening, for cans I'm going straight from the DAC to the Glenn) but the main reason I like it is the functionality.  I'm not sure which volume potentiometer is better, they both sound great to me.


A preamp is a necessity for me with multiple amps and sources. Similar to you, I have the 300B at the slightly higher 2-3 notch from the top, and use the preamp for volume control.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 10, 2019)

Last night, with Jeff Beck, got the nostalgia train going. So tonight's featured album is a true oldie...from 1973

Jefferson Starship's "Baron Von Tollbooth and the Chrome Nun"!!  Don't laugh, back in the day, we thought that was a mighty cool album name 

Has some great tunes on it...like "Your mind has left your body" and "Sketches of China", "White Boy" and "Across the Board"...

And the GOTL was up to the task...tonight's compliment is a classic and goodness does it ever sound great:






And here is the album cover:





Cheers, peeps!!!

  

P.S. The Sylvania is actually a 12SN7GT has the navy anchor in green print, is like new and cost less than $20.00 shipped!!

On Deck: Joe Walsh "The Confessor"....
.


----------



## gibosi

I am currently rolling through rectifiers to see which has the best synergy with the Telefunken EL11. This evening, it is a Mazda UU8 which has a tonality similar to the Mazda ECC804. Perhaps rolling the three drivers -- ECC804 with the EL11 -- might be similar... Anyway, it sounds great, but will withhold judgement until after I have had a chance to try the Mullard GZ32 and Cossor 53KU. Currently listening to Georgia Anne Muldrow (Overload) and Sasha Sloan (Loser)...


----------



## lukeap69

Been listening with sextet of 6BX7's with EL11's as drivers for a week now. These EL11's have been very quiet from the get go although this time around I have cleaned the adapters and the EL11's pins as what I have learned from Ken (@gibosi). I haven't rolled the C3g's as drivers since I have rolled ELxx's drivers but from memory the EL11's are as bright but have more meat. They work well with my HD800SD. But the biggest surprise is I do not hear any sibilance with one of my favourite songs that has been problematic with majority of the amps and tubes (I think the recording itself is the problem.) Anyway, I will be continuing to listen to this setup for sometime before rolling back my C3g's to confirm my findings. Happy listening!


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> I am currently rolling through rectifiers to see which has the best synergy with the Telefunken EL11. This evening, it is a Mazda UU8 which has a tonality similar to the Mazda ECC804. Perhaps rolling the three drivers -- ECC804 with the EL11 -- might be similar... Anyway, it sounds great, but will withhold judgement until after I have had a chance to try the Mullard GZ32 and Cossor 53KU. Currently listening to Georgia Anne Muldrow (Overload) and Sasha Sloan (Loser)...



Sounds good Ken...

Will be interested I which rectifier wins and why...

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

One of my favorite atributes of Glenn's OTL is how great it sounds with inexpensive "non boutique" tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

@mordy -

Guess what! Your method of heating up the octal pins for 60 seconds with a soldering iron....just fixed my favorite Sylvania 6SN7W, black base, tall boy!

Never has noises, always worked perfectly, rolled it out one day, and it went silent on one channel.  Just got around to Mordy's tube restoration process, and delighted that it worked!!!  It is back to perfect operation!!!

Thanks, Mordy!!


----------



## mordy

Happy to hear that - did you find the other noisy 6SN7W tubes that you put aside?


----------



## JazzVinyl

I did..."the fix" did not work on that one, and got in that GE 6F8G made by NU...horribly noisey, cleaning pins, cap and your fix...did nothing to remedy.  
Will be asking for a refund on that one...


----------



## leftside

Managed to find a nice NOS pair of Mullard EL38. These have a getter than I don't think I've seen before - like an upside down trough. Will report back later in the year when I get a chance to hear them.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Sounds good Ken...
> 
> Will be interested I which rectifier wins and why...



In my experience, while Telefunken tubes tend to have very good highs and lows, the mids are a bit too thin, at least to my ears. And I thought the Mazda UU8, Cossor 53KU and the Mullard GZ32 were all reasonble candidates to restore the mids without adding any treble. After rolling these three, I have settled on the Mullard GZ32. And this isn't all that surprising as the Mullard is one of my favorite rectifiers when it comes to vocals. So I would definitely encourage those who can roll rectifiers to try this combination: Tung-Sol 6BX7, Telefunken EL11 and Mullard GZ32.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Managed to find a nice NOS pair of Mullard EL38. These have a getter than I don't think I've seen before - like an upside down trough. Will report back later in the year when I get a chance to hear them.



Are they usable in GOTL? I believe they need a specially made adapter?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...er-adapter-For-Elise-Euforia-amp/202510957233

The above adaptor makes no sound in GOTL...


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Are they usable in GOTL? I believe they need a specially made adapter?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...er-adapter-For-Elise-Euforia-amp/202510957233
> 
> The above adaptor makes no sound in GOTL...


Deyan made me a pair of EL38 to C3g adapters.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Deyan made me a pair of EL38 to C3g adapters.



Ah, understand


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Are they usable in GOTL? I believe they need a specially made adapter?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...er-adapter-For-Elise-Euforia-amp/202510957233
> 
> The above adaptor makes no sound in GOTL...



That adapter will not work in the OTL at all this is made for a FA amp were the two half's of the 6SN7 are tied together.

You will have to have made a dual EL38 to 6SN7 adapter made.
Or get the EL38 to C3g adapter made by Deyan


----------



## 2359glenn

Got a box of 20 EL3N tubes today along with the normal Philips were Tungsram and SER Elektronror by Ericsson.
Never herd of these Ericsson tubes before. Will see how they sound tomorrow.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Got a box of 20 EL3N tubes today along with the normal Philips were Tungsram and SER Elektronror by Ericsson.
> Never herd of these Ericsson tubes before. Will see how they sound tomorrow.



I have never seen any of the Ericsson EL3N tubes, I will be interested to hear your findings with these tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I have never seen any of the Ericsson EL3N tubes, I will be interested to hear your findings with these tubes.



Will see how they sound tomorrow.
Hoping good.


----------



## 2359glenn

Well I tried the Ericsson EL3N they are actually EL3D not sure of the difference. After looking at the internals they look identical to the Tungsram EL3D's I got.
They sound pretty good I think I like the Philips El3N sound better the bass sounds boomy might give them more time only been on 1/2 hour now.
They also seem to have less gain.
Will also try the Tungsram EL3D's after a couple of days expect them to sound the same.


----------



## mordy

Here is a quote from the Radiomuseum:
"The difference between this EL3D to a normal EL3N is unknown.
Perhaps this is a typo and EL3N was meant."
And don't hold your breath burning in the EL3N tubes - they keep on improving for well over 150 hours......


----------



## 2359glenn

EL3D is on the boxes and tubes.
Still listening on speakers while building a amp sounding good so far just not sure of the bass.


----------



## rnros

leftside said:


> Deyan made me a pair of EL38 to C3g adapters.



Looking forward to your impressions with the Deyan adapters. Nice EL38 photos.


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> Looking forward to your impressions with the Deyan adapters. Nice EL38 photos.


Hi leftside,
I am also very interested to hear about your experience with the EL38.
Recently I tried to use the EL32 with Chinese adapters but the results were not successful with a gradual build-up of pops and noises and I had to discontinue using the EL32 tube. Don't know if the problem is the tube or the Chinese adapters.


----------



## leftside

GEC also made a EL38 equivalent called the E3375. Looking forward to trying these tubes as well.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> GEC also made a EL38 equivalent called the E3375. Looking forward to trying these tubes as well.



What are you going to use these for drivers???


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> What are you going to use these for drivers???


Yes -  using the same EL38 to C3g adapters.


----------



## attmci (Jan 13, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> What are you going to use these for drivers???


Peace.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 13, 2019)

attmci said:


> Yup, these two are very similar tubes (both 6.3V). LOL
> 
> In the other thread, it will turn your Hugo 2 into a DAVE!!



Yea right.

These tubes are not suitable for output tubes in a OTL amp. There internal impedance is to high made to be used with transformer output.
This is why I asked what he was going to use them for. Maybe 8 of them could be used.
Unless you like bloated distorted bass.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Yea right.
> 
> These tubes are not suitable for output tubes in a OTL amp. There internal impedance is to high made to be used with transformer output.
> This is why I asked what he was going to use them for. Maybe 8 of them could be used.
> Unless you like bloated distorted bass.



This goes the same, for EL38's Glenn?


----------



## gibosi

The fact that they will be used with C3g adapters would imply that he intends to use them as drivers, similar to EL3N.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> The fact that they will be used with C3g adapters would imply that he intends to use them as drivers, similar to EL3N.



Yes, I am aware, but I meant EL38 impedance too high to use effectively as powers in GOTL?  Didn't know if EL38 and E3375 differed, in that regard.


----------



## attmci (Jan 13, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, I am aware, but I meant EL38 impedance too high to use effectively as powers in GOTL?  Didn't know if EL38 and E3375 differed, in that regard.



https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma...n - Head-Fi.org&txt=Circ 11 - 25 Jan 2019.pdf


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> The fact that they will be used with C3g adapters would imply that he intends to use them as drivers, similar to EL3N.



That might be OK

I thought I made a amp that can roll allot of different tubes but don't you think this is getting out of hand.
I don't really know if these power pentodes will sound good as a preamp/driver tube.
Guess you can stick anything in there and some noise will come out.
I will make all future amps with the 6SN7 and C3g sockets indestructible so anything can be put in there including a dead short from plates to cathodes.
Then no matter what craziness goes on the amp won't be damaged.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, I am aware, but I meant EL38 impedance too high to use effectively as powers in GOTL?  Didn't know if EL38 and E3375 differed, in that regard.



They are not right in any OTL or maybe a high impedance cathode follower.
Just in mine you would need 2 of them in one channel just to do anything.
Guess the EL38 is the flavor of the month.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> They are not right in any OTL or maybe a high impedance cathode follower.
> Just in mine you would need 2 of them in one channel just to do anything.
> Guess the EL38 is the flavor of the month.



Yes, thank you.  In your GOTL, for power tubes, with my cans, 6x 6BL7 reign supreme.   Also, really like a pair of 6H13C.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, thank you.  In your GOTL, for power tubes, with my cans, 6x 6BL7 reign supreme.   Also, really like a pair of 6H13C.



This is what the amp is made fore!!!!


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> They are not right in any OTL or maybe a high impedance cathode follower.
> Just in mine you would need 2 of them in one channel just to do anything.
> Guess the EL38 is the flavor of the month.


Thanks for the info Glenn. Glad I posted pics. I won't be using these tubes - they will remain NOS 

Poor Glenn - seeing people abusing his amps - or at least planning on doing so  Still want to make me an amp Glenn?


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Just in mine you would need 2 of them in one channel just to do anything.


I'll get Deyan to build me a couple of adapters. A pair of 2 * EL38 to 1 * C3g adapters.  Just kidding....


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Thanks for the info Glenn. Glad I posted pics. I won't be using these tubes - they will remain NOS
> 
> Poor Glenn - seeing people abusing his amps - or at least planning on doing so  Still want to make me an amp Glenn?



Yes with indestructible driver sockets the only way to go now.

I see in another thread they stick anything in there and it sounds great until the next tube comes along.
I guess if you only have 600 ohm phones you can use high impedance pentodes that should be running on high voltage.
In a low voltage low impedance OTL amp.
Just don't try to plug 32 ohm phones in and expect anything but distortion.


----------



## attmci

Do you guys believe the TIDAL and ROON streaming will be the future of music? I know tidal is loosing money.....


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> I'll get Deyan to build me a couple of adapters. A pair of 2 * EL38 to 1 * C3g adapters.  Just kidding....



It will be OK when I build your amp don't know how the sound will be.
Just get some Mullard NOS EL34s easy to get and no plate cap.


----------



## 2359glenn

Maybe a adapter could be made to use this tube in the C3g sockets.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> That might be OK
> 
> I thought I made a amp that can roll allot of different tubes but don't you think this is getting out of hand.
> I don't really know if these power pentodes will sound good as a preamp/driver tube.
> ...



Ha....no need to make mine indestructible, I will be just using the basics....SN7 tubes and C3g driver tubes.
I won't be searching for the next great tube or using the FOTM tubes.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Maybe a adapter could be made to use this tube in the C3g sockets.





2359glenn said:


> Maybe a adapter could be made to use this tube in the C3g sockets.


Hi Glenn,




Supposed to have a beautiful cherry glow....
I assume that the 808 at 7.5V and 4A will work well in the GOTL but something tells me that this suggestion is tongue-in-cheek.....


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> ...
> I will make all future amps with the 6SN7 and C3g sockets indestructible so anything can be put in there including a dead short from plates to cathodes.
> Then no matter what craziness goes on the amp won't be damaged.





2359glenn said:


> Yes with indestructible driver sockets the only way to go now.
> ...



Can understand the concern, but I don't think any reasonable and responsible person would try to hold you, or the GOTL build quality, responsible for their tube rolling adventures.
Although, I did say _reasonable and responsible_, so, good to be clear.

Fact is, some folks are more curious and adventurous than others, in any given pursuit. Just human nature.
I would bet, even among the curious and adventurous, that 95% listen to their tried and true favorites 95% of the time.
BTW, I don't really bother with socket savers, I've done my share of tube rolling, and the only difference with sockets from day one is a small chip on one socket. But that's just the nature of porcelain sockets.

When this topic is played out, we can return to less controversial topics like fuses, wire, and cable.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Nothing wrong with being curious and exploring the possibilities, but at a certain point it starts to look less like fun and more like obsession.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> Can understand the concern, but I don't think any reasonable and responsible person would try to hold you, or the GOTL build quality, responsible for their tube rolling adventures.
> Although, I did say _reasonable and responsible_, so, good to be clear.
> 
> Fact is, some folks are more curious and adventurous than others, in any given pursuit. Just human nature.
> ...



That is ingenious !!!!!!

A $50 audio fool fuse will give 50% better SQ
And a $75 audio fool fuse will give 75% better SQ
The heck with the tubes
This is somewhere on Head-Fi.  Just have to get the direction of the fuse right for best results.

Then we can move on to power cables who knows the improvement if using welding cables for power cord.


----------



## rnros

Xcalibur255 said:


> Nothing wrong with being curious and exploring the possibilities, but at a certain point it starts to look less like fun and more like obsession.



I've always enjoyed reading the posts of some of the long-time contributors to this thread who roll a wide variety of tubes.
I may never explore that variety or number of tubes, but I enjoy reading their reports. The thread would be less interesting without those postings.


----------



## gibosi

Regarding rolling lots of strange tubes, it is probably best if I continue to remain silent... lol

Less controversial perhaps, "Make America Thermionic Again" might be a campaign slogan that many of us here could get behind.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Regarding rolling lots of strange tubes, it is probably best if I continue to remain silent... lol
> 
> Less controversial perhaps, "Make America Thermionic Again" might be a campaign slogan that many of us here could get behind.


You have my vote for the MATA party! Break out the champagne!


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> I've always enjoyed reading the posts of some of the long-time contributors to this thread who roll a wide variety of tubes.
> I may never explore that variety or number of tubes, but I enjoy reading their reports. The thread would be less interesting without those postings.



I agree that is why I build the ultimate tube rolling amp.
But larger and larger power tubes are being used in the driver stage.  Do they sound better?
In the future this will be OK upgrading resistors to higher power to handle this. Probably the ones in there will be OK with these tubes but not sure.
I never thought people would use these tubes in the driver position.
Then are these adapters wired correctly???
UT is sending his amp with these tubes and adapters so I can check what happened.

So in the future anything will be OK to use with in reason not a 808.  Could use the 808 in a amp made for them in the output stage a transformer coupled amp.
And after checking UT's amp I will be able to tell if it is OK with all the older amps.


----------



## mordy

Hi Glenn, 
Received an E180CC tube today that uses a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter. The tube can run on 6 or 12V. Running it on 6V now, but can I switch to 12V using this adapter?


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 14, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> Received an E180CC tube today that uses a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter. The tube can run on 6 or 12V. Running it on 6V now, but can I switch to 12V using this adapter?



The adapter is most likely wired just for one voltage I would say 6.3
You would be risking the tube putting the amp on 12 volts.  The current limit will not work for these small 150ma tubes.
Unless the adapter has a switch on it?


----------



## mordy

Thanks - will just leave it on 6V - no switch on adapter.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sounds great!  I think @whirlwind said some time back that the real bargains were in 12SN7's (and 25 volt tubes)...since few amp owners can use them, they sell cheap and have been scarcely used.

That is the case with this Ken Rad 12SN7 staggered plate...just like it's much more expensive 6 volt cousin, but had for ultra cheap...

Yeah for the owners of the 6/12/25 volt,, switchable SN7 driver socket....


----------



## mordy

Today I received a pair of EL8 tubes - trying them as an alternative to the C3g tubes; about the same current draw. 
These look like Valvo tubes but are branded TeKaDe which is an acronym for Telephone-Cable-Wire in German (Telefon-Kabel-Draht) which is a very old German company dating back to before 1900.



The pair I received are a little different from each other - one has a clear top and one a chrome top. The boxes looked like they were unopened - don't know if I should complain or not.
I was worried that they would be lacking in the bass,but with the backing of my dynamite sextet of 4xBX and 2x5998 they sound very good right out of the box with a sweet mid range and good bass.


----------



## JazzVinyl

TE KA DE....! 
New brand on me, Mordy!   Well done!


----------



## gibosi

TeKaDe manufactured vacuum tubes and radio sets during the 1920's and '30's, and perhaps during WWII, as well. However, after the war, TeKaDe entered into a joint venture with Philips, specializing in multi-carrier equipment for telephone networks. And as part of this arrangement, they ceased the manufacture of vacuum tubes and sourced most of their tubes from Valvo. Currently, the company is now part of Alcatel Lucent.

In my collection, I have a number of TeKaDe AZ12 rectifiers sourced from Valvo.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> I agree that is why I build the ultimate tube rolling amp.
> But larger and larger power tubes are being used in the driver stage.  Do they sound better?
> In the future this will be OK upgrading resistors to higher power to handle this. Probably the ones in there will be OK with these tubes but not sure.
> I never thought people would use these tubes in the driver position.
> ...



Good information. Thanks.
Appreciate the extra time and effort you're spending on checking the adapters also.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Anyone have the Ken-Rad 1633?


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Anyone have the Ken-Rad 1633?



I’ve was looking for one before I purchased a 6c8g version. Really hard to find. Most of the 1633 I find are pretty much all RCAs. Now If they made NU 1633s.

@2359glenn By the way. Are there any other 25v tubes I should be keeping an eye out for?


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
That Ken-Rad 1633 sold already. A couple of months ago there was a pair available but it sold right away - hard tube to find.
Except for the 1633 and the 13D1 I haven't found any other 25V tubes for the GOTL.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> That Ken-Rad 1633 sold already. A couple of months ago there was a pair available but it sold right away - hard tube to find.
> Except for the 1633 and the 13D1 I haven't found any other 25V tubes for the GOTL.



Hello Mordy...

Yes sir...sold...to me.  

Had my search criteria in for almost a year


----------



## mordy

Patience pays off.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Patience pays off.....



If it is not noisey....that GE branded NU 6F8G that I looked for a long time....too noisey to be usable.


----------



## leftside

Anyone using 6J5 and 6P5 tubes (and varieties) in the GOTL? 

There seems to be 2 * 6J5 to 1 * 6SN7 adapters on eBay, but these adapters have 8 holes and the 6J5/6P5 tubes have 6 pins, so I'm not sure? I have a pair of nice GEC L63 that I might be able to use.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve was looking for one before I purchased a 6c8g version. Really hard to find. Most of the 1633 I find are pretty much all RCAs. Now If they made NU 1633s.
> 
> @2359glenn By the way. Are there any other 25v tubes I should be keeping an eye out for?



13D1 by Brimar is a great sounding tube it is a 25SN7


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 16, 2019)

leftside said:


> Anyone using 6J5 and 6P5 tubes (and varieties) in the GOTL?
> 
> There seems to be 2 * 6J5 to 1 * 6SN7 adapters on eBay, but these adapters have 8 holes and the 6J5/6P5 tubes have 6 pins, so I'm not sure? I have a pair of nice GEC L63 that I might be able to use.


 
I use the GEC  L63 = 6J5
So I have all GEC two GEC  L63 and two GEC  6AS7
The L63 is still a octal tube even though 2 pins are missing not used anyway.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> I use the GEC  L63 = 6J5
> So I have all GEC two GEC  L63 and two GEC  6AS7
> The L63 is still a octal tube even though 2 pins are missing not used anyway.


Ah that makes sense. Thanks Glenn. The CV1932 looks nice as well.

Here's another tube that  can be used (with an adapter). My apologies if been mentioned before, but they are very cheap for a 1940's Ken Rad:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-...e-With-2-Top-Cap-Electronic-Tube/292585522962


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Anyone have the Ken-Rad 1633?








 

I got this one awhile back when UT found a fellow that had a few of them...they are getting tougher to find as is the Brimar 13D1
The RCA seems to be pretty plentiful and for the price , they are a fine sounding tube.
Not as good as the Ken Rad or Brimar IMO, but still very nice..RCA have a warm sound signature, more laid back.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Ah that makes sense. Thanks Glenn. The CV1932 looks nice as well.
> 
> Here's another tube that  can be used (with an adapter). My apologies if been mentioned before, but they are very cheap for a 1940's Ken Rad:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-...e-With-2-Top-Cap-Electronic-Tube/292585522962



I have tried these Ken-Rad 7193 a while ago and they sound good.
Like a Ken-Rad 6SN7 or 1633 same sound signature.

Not much time to tube roll anymore busy building amps and now I have to travel to buy new used machines for work.
It is sad going to company's that have closed down knowing all the people are out of work now.
Feel like a scavenger.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I had one of those days at work...that seemed like it lasted for days...

Come home and fire up GOTL with TS 12SN7 BGRP w/six pack 6BL7, let it run 20 mins...

Then put on an old song: Robin Trower's "Bridge of Sighs"....

WOW, do I feel better now!!! What a soaring rendering, the GOTL provides!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> I have tried these Ken-Rad 7193 a while ago and they sound good.
> Like a Ken-Rad 6SN7 or 1633 same sound signature.
> 
> Not much time to tube roll anymore busy building amps and now I have to travel to buy new used machines for work.
> ...



What do you make at your day gig, Glenn?


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> I have tried these Ken-Rad 7193 a while ago and they sound good.
> Like a Ken-Rad 6SN7 or 1633 same sound signature.
> 
> Not much time to tube roll anymore busy building amps and now I have to travel to buy new used machines for work.
> ...






2359glenn said:


> I have tried these Ken-Rad 7193 a while ago and they sound good.
> Like a Ken-Rad 6SN7 or 1633 same sound signature.
> 
> Not much time to tube roll anymore busy building amps and now I have to travel to buy new used machines for work.
> ...


Hi Glenn,
It seems to me that there are several choices when it comes to the 7193 tube: Ken-Rad, 2C22 National Union and Chinese and Russian 6C8P tubes. Then I assume that you need this adapter to use in the 6SN7 slot:




https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6...519526?hash=item2c995c3b26:g:LdUAAOSwyQtVlRuP
Somehow I think that the easier way would be to just get a NU 6C8G tube which can be found inexpensively (ESRC1 has 6C8G tubes listed for $3 but I don't know which brands) and an adapter.
Impress your friends:




Sorry, but it reminds me of this:


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I got this one awhile back when UT found a fellow that had a few of them...they are getting tougher to find as is the Brimar 13D1
> The RCA seems to be pretty plentiful and for the price , they are a fine sounding tube.
> Not as good as the Ken Rad or Brimar IMO, but still very nice..RCA have a warm sound signature, more laid back.



Hello Joe...

Does the KR 1633 favor solid bass notes, as the 6 and 12SN7's do?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> It seems to me that there are several choices when it comes to the 7193 tube: Ken-Rad, 2C22 National Union and Chinese and Russian 6C8P tubes. Then I assume that you need this adapter to use in the 6SN7 slot:
> 
> 
> ...



ESRC don't usually give specific brands

BTW I got your Philco / NU  6F8G round plate it has green sleeves on the wires in the bottom.


----------



## attmci

Something you guys may want in the near future.

https://darko.audio/2019/01/chord-dave-vs-ps-audio-directstream/


----------



## gibosi

For those wanting to try single triodes, a pair of RCA 76 are hard to beat.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Joe...
> 
> Does the KR 1633 favor solid bass notes, as the 6 and 12SN7's do?



I have the 6/12 and 25 volt versions of the Ken Rad and yes they all favor the bass and they all sound the same to my ears


----------



## mordy

Here is another tube to roll in the driver's seat in the GOTL:




It is a 5687 tube and it sounds very nice. There are hundreds of offers for this tube, and they are very inexpensive.
The cons are that it has a unique pin-out which it does not share with other tubes (except a CV2578 which I could not find). However, a 5687 to 6SN7 adapter is available for less than $10 shipped.
There are many manufacturers - I have GE, Sylvania and Tung Sol, and of these I prefer the Tung Sol.
So many choices......


----------



## Xcalibur255

These are under-utilized and I don't understand why.  This is one of the "space era" tubes.  They sound good.  

I always wondered how closely the operating points of a 6SN7 match up to a 5687.  Maybe the tube would sound even better if the amp were designed to use it in the first place.


----------



## mordy

The only reason why people don't use this tube that I can think of is that it has a one-of-a-kind pinout which it does not share with other tubes.
I use it in conjunction with a pair of driver tubes in the loctal sockets - ATM a pair of EL8 tubes.
The GOTL Super 9:




I get a very nice balanced sound.....


----------



## gibosi (Jan 18, 2019)

mordy said:


> Here is another tube to roll in the driver's seat in the GOTL:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A CV2578 is just the British military designation for the 5687. However, if you have this adapter, you can also roll E182CC / 7119. This tube is considered to be an ultra premium version of the ECC82 /12AU7.

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0432.htm

Unfortunately, the pin-out is different than the 12AU7, but again, if you can roll 5687, you can roll these. I am very fortunate to have found a pair of the earliest production, pinched-waist, manufactured at Heerlen in 1958. If you like the Heerlen sound, these are wonderful tubes


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> The only reason why people don't use this tube that I can think of is that it has a one-of-a-kind pinout which it does not share with other tubes.
> I use it in conjunction with a pair of driver tubes in the loctal sockets - ATM a pair of EL8 tubes.
> The GOTL Super 9:
> 
> I get a very nice balanced sound.....



Super Duper 9!!

Looks great, Mordy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> A CV2578 is just the British military designation for the 5687. However, if you have this adapter, you can also roll E182CC / 7119. This tube is considered to be an ultra premium version of the ECC82 /12AU7.
> 
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0432.htm
> 
> Unfortunately, the pin-out is different than the 12AU7, but again, if you can roll 5687, you can roll these. I am very fortunate to have found a pair of the earliest production, pinched-waist, manufactured at Heerlen in 1958. If you like the Heerlen sound, these are wonderful tubes




I love the gold lettering on the tube on the left...the tube is blowing the musical staff, full of notes!!

Send me that one, gibosi


----------



## wazzupi

My c3g tubes give off a water drop sound and it goes in a pattern left channel right channel etc every so often anyone know what that could be ?


----------



## 2359glenn

What do you mean water drop sound?


----------



## wazzupi

more like a pin drop i guess


2359glenn said:


> What do you mean water drop sound?


----------



## bobboxbody

wazzupi said:


> more like a pin drop i guess



My metal housing 6sj7 tubes make a sound like that while warming up on a different amp, first 10-15min, does it stop when they reach a stable temperature?


----------



## wazzupi

bobboxbody said:


> My metal housing 6sj7 tubes make a sound like that while warming up on a different amp, first 10-15min, does it stop when they reach a stable temperature?


No i never count warm up periods.


----------



## leftside

wazzupi said:


> My c3g tubes give off a water drop sound and it goes in a pattern left channel right channel etc every so often anyone know what that could be ?


Do you have a second pair to try?


----------



## mordy

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0432.htm

Unfortunately, the pin-out is different than the 12AU7, but again, if you can roll 5687, you can roll these. I am very fortunate to have found a pair of the earliest production, pinched-waist, manufactured at Heerlen in 1958. If you like the Heerlen sound, these are wonderful tubes

[/QUOTE]
Hi gibosi,
Here is a picture of the E180CC tube that I have. It was made in Herleen in August 1966:



The construction appears to be very different from the pinched waist tubes.


----------



## wazzupi

leftside said:


> Do you have a second pair to try?


Not of the c3gs


----------



## gibosi (Jan 20, 2019)

The E182CC and E180CC are not the same tube.

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0432.htm

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/abh0015.htm


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> The E182CC and E180CC are not the same tube. However, both are considered to be ultra premium versions of the 12AU7. And while the E182CC has the same pin-out as the 5687, the E180CC has the same pin-out as the 12AU7, which is certainly more convenient.


Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## gibosi (Jan 20, 2019)

edit: cleaning up....


----------



## Khragon

Just checking in as I haven't been listening to HP too seriously for almost a year now, and haven't use my Glenn 300B for a while now.  I'm thinking of selling it for other to enjoy.  If you're interested let me know.  It won't be "cheap" though, so serious inquiries only please, and I'm very much on thr fence on this one too


----------



## whirlwind

Khragon said:


> Just checking in as I haven't been listening to HP too seriously for almost a year now, and haven't use my Glenn 300B for a while now.  I'm thinking of selling it for other to enjoy.  If you're interested let me know.  It won't be "cheap" though, so serious inquiries only please, and I'm very much on thr fence on this one too



I would very much love to hear one of Glenns 300B amps. 
It would be very cool to compare the bass notes to that of the EL3N amp, which has thunderous bass notes.

I can totally understand if you get rid of it,sellers remorse will more than likely set in.

My guess is that you can sell it without much problem if you decide too.


----------



## 2359glenn

Khragon said:


> Just checking in as I haven't been listening to HP too seriously for almost a year now, and haven't use my Glenn 300B for a while now.  I'm thinking of selling it for other to enjoy.  If you're interested let me know.  It won't be "cheap" though, so serious inquiries only please, and I'm very much on thr fence on this one too



Doesn't this amp have 8 ohm output too? Can't remember made to many amps.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Doesn't this amp have 8 ohm output too? Can't remember made to many amps.



Yes.  8, 32, and 110.


----------



## 2359glenn

Khragon said:


> Yes.  8, 32, and 110.



I forgot about the 120 ohm setting. This is a nice amp and has 2 inputs too?


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> I forgot about the 120 ohm setting. This is a nice amp and has 2 inputs too?



Yes, rear toggle switch for two inputs.  You remember your amps well Glenn


----------



## Khragon

Here she is:


----------



## 2359glenn

The last one I built has Banana jacks on the back for speakers no room for multiple inputs.
The heat sinks for the 5 volt voltage regulators eat up most of the back plate. But I like a perfect 5 volts highly filtered for the 300B's


----------



## Khragon (Jan 20, 2019)

Yeah we thought about this Glenn, we decided that the amp can drive speakers too from the XLR output,  no need to use the real estate, the reason I owned this cable, 4pin XLR to spades:


----------



## 2359glenn

Khragon said:


> Yeah we thought about this Glenn, we decided that the amp can drive speakers too from the XLR output,  no need to use the real estate, the reason I owned this cable, 4pin XLR to spades:




I tried to talk @Mfalcon into using the XLR for speakers and have multiple inputs but he went with speaker terminals and one input.


----------



## Mfalcon

2359glenn said:


> I tried to talk @Mfalcon into using the XLR for speakers and have multiple inputs but he went with speaker terminals and one input.



I would have liked to use a 4 pin XLR but i was trying to use my other amp sometimes.  
i love this amp though.  Because I’m using a preamp to feed it I’m not missing the second input but it would be nice.


----------



## JazzVinyl

SWBM:


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> SWBM:



Neat.


----------



## UntilThen

Ulysses is in USA.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Ulysses is in USA.



Great


----------



## 2359glenn

At least the tubes help heat the house!!!!!!!


----------



## Rossliew

Khragon said:


> Here she is:



Don't believe there is a switch where one can flip to change from 110v to 230v..?


----------



## Khragon

Rossliew said:


> Don't believe there is a switch where one can flip to change from 110v to 230v..?



No, not sure if it's easy to do that either.  Maybe Glenn can chime in.


----------



## Monsterzero

Anyone using Cetron 6336b on their GOTL,and if so can you describe their sound to me?
Im debating between those and a new set of 6BX7s. Cant afford both at the moment.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Anyone using Cetron 6336b on their GOTL,and if so can you describe their sound to me?
> Im debating between those and a new set of 6BX7s. Cant afford both at the moment.



Using the Auteurs for comparison I prefer the 6BX7s. They’re punchier and feel they have better tone and timbre with a fuller sound than the 6336s. The 6336 feels like it gets out the way and doesn’t impart a sound, more like it lets the driver do most of the work. It’s flat through the FR.

The 6336s are quiet out the gate compared to finding a set that produce little to no noise with the 6BX7s. Hope that helps!


----------



## Monsterzero (Jan 22, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Using the Auteurs for comparison I prefer the 6BX7s. They’re punchier and feel they have better tone and timbre with a fuller sound than the 6336s. The 6336 feels like it gets out the way and doesn’t impart a sound, more like it lets the driver do most of the work. It’s flat through the FR.
> 
> The 6336s are quiet out the gate compared to finding a set that produce little to no noise with the 6BX7s. Hope that helps!



Yep, the 6BX7s are punchy,but I just got my own Verite yesterday,and like the loaner I had here a cpl months ago,the 6BX7s are too punchy.
@mordy  recommended the Cetron 6336b to me awhile back,saying they sounded fuller vs. Chatham,but im not sure a fuller sound is what the Verite is begging for.

Andy of vintagetubeservices recommended the Sylvania 6BX7s vs. the GE,which I currently own.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Unless someone can recommend another clear,neutral to neutral/bright power tube,the two im debating are the Chatham 6336b for 60.00 for a pair,or Sylvania 6x 6BX7s for approx 160.00


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Yep, the 6BX7s are punchy,but I just got my own Verite yesterday,and like the loaner I had here a cpl months ago,the 6BX7s are too punchy.
> @mordy  recommended the Cetron 6336b to me awhile back,saying they sounded fuller vs. Chatham,but im not sure a fuller sound is what the Verite is begging for.
> 
> Andy of vintagetubeservices recommended the Sylvania 6BX7s vs. the GE,which I currently own.
> ...


Hi Monsterzero,
Agree with Phantaminum that the 6336B is very neutral and lets the driver tube impart it's flavor which isn't a bad thing. It is a good platform that brings out the best in the driver tubes.
The 6336B are very powerful tubes that are good for hard to drive headphones but I do not have experience with the headphone you are mentioning.
I am using GE 6BX7 (I have several brands such as Westinghouse and RCA but they are all made by GE with the tell tale sandblasted dots) and wonder if there is going to be such a marked difference getting Sylvania BX tubes - therefore my nod would go to the Cetron 6336B tubes if I had to choose one over the other.
On the other hand, the old flat plate style Sylvania 6BL7 that I have sound better than other T-plate Sylvanias and other brands (RCA, Raytheon Japan, GE, Tung Sol), but only an incremental change and not a radical one.
But as always, YMMV....


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Yep, the 6BX7s are punchy,but I just got my own Verite yesterday,and like the loaner I had here a cpl months ago,the 6BX7s are too punchy.
> @mordy  recommended the Cetron 6336b to me awhile back,saying they sounded fuller vs. Chatham,but im not sure a fuller sound is what the Verite is begging for.
> 
> Andy of vintagetubeservices recommended the Sylvania 6BX7s vs. the GE,which I currently own.
> ...



Maybe a pair of 6080s or 7236 would


mordy said:


> Hi Monsterzero,
> Agree with Phantaminum that the 6336B is very neutral and lets the driver tube impart it's flavor which isn't a bad thing. It is a good platform that brings out the best in the driver tubes.
> The 6336B are very powerful tubes that are good for hard to drive headphones but I do not have experience with the headphone you are mentioning.
> I am using GE 6BX7 (I have several brands such as Westinghouse and RCA but they are all made by GE with the tell tale sandblasted dots) and wonder if there is going to be such a marked difference getting Sylvania BX tubes - therefore my nod would go to the Cetron 6336B tubes if I had to choose one over the other.
> ...



Agreed on the 6336s as a good recommendation. The other I can recommend are the Russian Svetlana’s 6H13Cs. I tried those with the Verites and they have a less mid bass presence but have great mids never the less. @UntilThen Do you have any recommendations? Possibly Raytheon 6080s or maybe the Tungsol 7236s?


----------



## Monsterzero

Not having heard any other 6BX7s besides the GEs,I quote Andy,who essentially said the GEs have an "ice pick" top end vs the Syl which are much smoother in the top. Dunno how true that is,just repeating what ive been told.

Regarding the 6336b, Andy agreed that Cetron is fuller sounding,and more romantic sounding vs. Chathams. The Verite is already a warm headphone,yet has incredible 3d imaging. Extra warmth imparted from tubes IMHO gets in the way of. 

Is the Chatham 6336 paper thin sounding,cuz I dont want that,but I also do not need extra thickness or warmth added to the equation.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Maybe a pair of 6080s or 7236 would



I have the RCA 6080s and the bass is almost where I want it,but still a bit too warm.


----------



## mordy

The Cetron 6336B are neutral - you tailor the sound by picking drivers.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Not having heard any other 6BX7s besides the GEs,I quote Andy,who essentially said the GEs have an "ice pick" top end vs the Syl which are much smoother in the top. Dunno how true that is,just repeating what ive been told.
> 
> Regarding the 6336b, Andy agreed that Cetron is fuller sounding,and more romantic sounding vs. Chathams. The Verite is already a warm headphone,yet has incredible 3d imaging. Extra warmth imparted from tubes IMHO gets in the way of.
> 
> Is the Chatham 6336 paper thin sounding,cuz I dont want that,but I also do not need extra thickness or warmth added to the equation.



Tung-Sol purchased Chatham. And later, Cetron purchased Tung-Sol. One of the primary reasons Tung-Sol purchased Chatham was the production of 5998, 6080, 6336, 7236 and similar tubes. And these tubes continued to be manufactured in that same Chatham factory from the 1950's through the 1970's. And therefore the only difference between Chatham, Tung-Sol and Cetron 6336 is the year of manufacture. In my experience they all sound pretty much the same.

So I wonder... is the "Chatham" referenced above a 6336? Or is it a 6AS7? Or?


----------



## Monsterzero

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a matched pair of NOS Chatham 6336b,$72.00 shipped. He didnt have any Cetrons. If these dont pan out I will continue to look on eBay.

Are there any limitations on the GOTL using these tubes? Currently running C3gs and HEXFRED. Will the amp blow up a city block if I use the 6336B with the C3Gs and HEXFRED?


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a matched pair of NOS Chatham 6336b,$72.00 shipped. He didnt have any Cetrons. If these dont pan out I will continue to look on eBay.
> 
> Are there any limitations on the GOTL using these tubes? Currently running C3gs and HEXFRED. Will the amp blow up a city block if I use the 6336B with the C3Gs and HEXFRED?



The amp was designed to run 6336 so no it will not blow up! lol


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a matched pair of NOS Chatham 6336b,$72.00 shipped. He didnt have any Cetrons. If these dont pan out I will continue to look on eBay.
> 
> Are there any limitations on the GOTL using these tubes? Currently running C3gs and HEXFRED. Will the amp blow up a city block if I use the 6336B with the C3Gs and HEXFRED?



The fact that these are labeled Chatham indicates that they were manufactured before or shortly after Tung-Sol purchased Chatham. The Chatham brand continued to be used by TS for a few years and then it was phased out.


----------



## rnros (Jan 22, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a matched pair of NOS Chatham 6336b,$72.00 shipped. He didnt have any Cetrons. If these dont pan out I will continue to look on eBay.
> 
> Are there any limitations on the GOTL using these tubes? Currently running C3gs and HEXFRED. Will the amp blow up a city block if I use the 6336B with the C3Gs and HEXFRED?



The only limitation with GOTL and 6336Bs is approaching the max on the heater current. Using hexfreds you are eliminating the tube rectifier heater current so you are well within limits.
Pair of 6336Bs need 10A, 6 X 6BX7s use 9A. Close. Not a problem.

Cetron 6336Bs from the mid 80s my preferred power tube. Use them ALL the time.
Actually have a few pairs, late 70s to '87, sound the same, Cetron tall bottle version. Open, natural, dynamic; nothing added, nothing missing.


----------



## Monsterzero

rnros said:


> Using hexfreds you are eliminating the tube rectifier heater current so you are well within limits.



Substituting a rectifier,like Mullard GZ32 for HEXFRED will be okay too?


----------



## gibosi (Jan 22, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Substituting a rectifier,like Mullard GZ32 for HEXFRED will be okay too?



I have the original American transformer, and yes, I can run any 5-volt tube rectifier and a pair of 6336B. And I am quite sure this is still true with a Lunsdahl transformer, but I am not positive....

Edit: with a pair of C3g, you should be OK. I suspect that running one of JV's "three-somes" or perhaps EL3N or EL11 might not be a good idea...


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Edit: with a pair of C3g, you should be OK. I suspect that running one of JV's "three-somes" or perhaps EL3N or EL11 might not be a good idea...



@2359glenn can you confirm its a ll good with my Lundahl ?


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> Substituting a rectifier,like Mullard GZ32 for HEXFRED will be okay too?



According to Glenn, the max for the Lundahl transformer and heater current is 13A at 130F. Glenn has posted on this in the past, you can look back for his posts.
Per the previous discussions, you can go a little higher. So you would need to add the rectifier tube heater current to the equation.

Most of the time I am running closer to 14A and the transformer has never gone above 125F.
Example: tube rectifier 3A, pair of 6336B 10A, pair of EL8 1A. Pair of C3g would be 740mA.

Which rectifier tubes are best for the 6336Bs is another question.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a matched pair of NOS Chatham 6336b,$72.00 shipped. He didnt have any Cetrons. If these dont pan out I will continue to look on eBay.
> 
> Are there any limitations on the GOTL using these tubes? Currently running C3gs and HEXFRED. Will the amp blow up a city block if I use the 6336B with the C3Gs and HEXFRED?


Hi Monsterzero,
The way to figure out if you are going overload the GOTL is simple. The amp is rated for 13A. If the tubes you put in exceed 13A you could run into trouble.
The 6336 is rated at 5A. Two of these draw 10A of current which leaves you with 3A of current left for the other tubes you put in.
The C3g draws 0.4A so a pair is 0.8A. Total current draw is now 10.8A - no problem.
Now add in a pair of 6BX7 at 1.5A each + 3A. Oops - the total now is 13.8A and it exceeds the rating of the amp. You could use all these tubes if you have a fan cooling the amp - up to 14A , but this is the limit and only with the extra fan cooling.

I have been running these tubes without problems: 
6SN7W 0.6A
2xEL8 = 0.8A
4x6BX7 = 6A
2x5998 = 5A
for a total of 12.8A from 9 tubes - if there are 9 sockets, why not lol?

As an example you could run four 6080/6AS7 tubes for a total of 10A + a pair of EL11 (0.9A each = 1.8A) and a 13D1 (0.3A) = 12.1A if this is what you fancy.

An easy way to get the current draw from a specific tube is to go to Google and type in Radiomuseum and the tube designation:
Radiomuseum 7N7
Once the Google finds the site, click on the entry. Here you can easily see the current draw (highlighted in red):
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_7n7.html




7N7
*Base* Loctal-8, B8G (Sylvania, 1938) (Codex=W)
*Filament* Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.6 Ampere / Indirect / Parallel, (AC/DC)
*Description* Loktal equivalent of 6SN7GT.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a matched pair of NOS Chatham 6336b,$72.00 shipped. He didnt have any Cetrons. If these dont pan out I will continue to look on eBay.
> 
> Are there any limitations on the GOTL using these tubes? Currently running C3gs and HEXFRED. Will the amp blow up a city block if I use the 6336B with the C3Gs and HEXFRED?



You’re good! I think from your explanation on what you're looking for sound wise, Mordy’s recommendation is solid.

Speaking of the Verites, that headphone is absurd. Add in it’s holographic sound with the layering Glenn’s OTL bring and it’s pretty wild. I’ve never heard texture in notes and bass as I have with them. I can leave the Auteurs on my head and have music running in the background when I’m working or studying. I can’t do that with the Verites. I find myself saying, “That’s new! or “I’ve never heard the instrument that way before...”. Then 30 minutes I remember I was working on something.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> You’re good! I think from your explanation on what you're looking for sound wise, Mordy’s recommendation is solid.
> 
> Speaking of the Verites, that headphone is absurd. Add in it’s holographic sound with the layering Glenn’s OTL bring and it’s pretty wild. I’ve never heard texture in notes and bass as I have with them. I can leave the Auteurs on my head and have music running in the background when I’m working or studying. I can’t do that with the Verites. I find myself saying, “That’s new! or “I’ve never heard the instrument that way before...”. Then 30 minutes I remember I was working on something.


Some setups just demand your attention and you can't do work or concentrate on other stuff!


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> I find myself saying, “That’s new! or “I’ve never heard the instrument that way before...”. Then 30 minutes I remember I was working on something.



Yup,theyre insane!
And,as I mention here,its an all new way to hear songs you've heard countless times before.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Hi Monsterzero,
> The way to figure out if you are going overload the GOTL is simple. The amp is rated for 13A. If the tubes you put in exceed 13A you could run into trouble.
> The 6336 is rated at 5A. Two of these draw 10A of current which leaves you with 3A of current left for the other tubes you put in.
> The C3g draws 0.4A so a pair is 0.8A. Total current draw is now 10.8A - no problem.
> ...




Thank you Mordy,that post is incredibly helpful.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jan 22, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a matched pair of NOS Chatham 6336b,$72.00 shipped. He didnt have any Cetrons. If these dont pan out I will continue to look on eBay.
> 
> Are there any limitations on the GOTL using these tubes? Currently running C3gs and HEXFRED. Will the amp blow up a city block if I use the 6336B with the C3Gs and HEXFRED?



You will be fine using the C3g's even if you use a tube rectifier. It will be close to max but you can go over a little because
this amp doesn't draw even close to what the high voltage secondary puts out on that transformer.
If using a tube rectifier with the 6336s don't use a wimpy one at least 250Ma 300+Ma would be better.
You have to try pretty hard to blow this amp up


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> You’re good! I think from your explanation on what you're looking for sound wise, Mordy’s recommendation is solid.
> 
> Speaking of the Verites, that headphone is absurd. Add in it’s holographic sound with the layering Glenn’s OTL bring and it’s pretty wild. I’ve never heard texture in notes and bass as I have with them. I can leave the Auteurs on my head and have music running in the background when I’m working or studying. I can’t do that with the Verites. I find myself saying, “That’s new! or “I’ve never heard the instrument that way before...”. Then 30 minutes I remember I was working on something.



What tubes are you using to drive the Verites.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Some setups just demand your attention and you can't do work or concentrate on other stuff!



No kidding! 

Before I forget.  NU 6SL7s, 12SN7, and12SL7 came in and all sound the same as the 6C8Gs. I've purchased the 6SL7 and 12SL7 for really cheap around $15 - $20 shipped for each one. 


2359glenn said:


> What tubes are you using to drive the Verites.



Hey Glenn,

I've been using the Siemens c3g or NU 6SL7 driver with a pair of 5998s and the Tung-Sol BGRP driver with a six pack of 6BX7s. The c3g is very detailed but I prefer the NU or TS for their tonality. Once I recover from minor surgery I'm hoping to to try out a few other combinations.


----------



## 2359glenn

You can recover lying back listening to your Verites.  What better therapy is there.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Yep, the 6BX7s are punchy,but I just got my own Verite yesterday,and like the loaner I had here a cpl months ago,the 6BX7s are too punchy.
> @mordy  recommended the Cetron 6336b to me awhile back,saying they sounded fuller vs. Chatham,but im not sure a fuller sound is what the Verite is begging for.
> 
> Andy of vintagetubeservices recommended the Sylvania 6BX7s vs. the GE,which I currently own.
> ...




MZ...have you tried four 6BX7 instead of six ?






2359glenn said:


> You can recover lying back listening to your Verites.  What better therapy is there.



Glenn, you have the Verite in the house ?


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> You can recover lying back listening to your Verites.  What better therapy is there.



Oh that sounds like a dream! I had ear and nose surgery so my ears are stuffed. I’m not supposed to put anything over my face/ears for at least a week then slowly ease into music. Right now my wife is having fun whispering to me because she thinks it’s funny that I keep saying, “What!?” and making me think i’m going deaf.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> MZ...have you tried four 6BX7 instead of six ?



I have,still too thumpy(for me)


----------



## 2359glenn

Glenn, you have the Verite in the house ?[/QUOTE]

Not yet but I will.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Oh that sounds like a dream! I had ear and nose surgery so my ears are stuffed. I’m not supposed to put anything over my face/ears for at least a week then slowly ease into music. Right now my wife is having fun whispering to me because she thinks it’s funny that I keep saying, “What!?” and making me think i’m going deaf.



That sucks just have to sit there and no music.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Got my Ken Rad 1633 today, have it in, sounds wonderful.

Wish you a speedy recovery, PH.....!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Nice tube good find


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> You will be fine using the C3g's even if you use a tube rectifier. It will be close to max but you can go over a little because
> this amp doesn't draw even close to what the high voltage secondary puts out on that transformer.
> If using a tube rectifier with the 6336s don't use a wimpy one at least 250Ma 300+Ma would be better.
> You have to try pretty hard to blow this amp up



Glenn, what about the American transformer? I believe that the rectifier winding can provide up to 5 amps. However, I am not sure what the max is for the output/driver winding? I have been operating under the assumption that the max is 11amps. Is this correct?  But I wonder... if I have a rectifier drawing only 3 amps, does this mean that the output/driver winding can "borrow" 2 amps from the rectifier winding?


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes and no if you are drawing less on the 5/3.3 volt winding it leaves a little more power for the other wingdings.
But if you decrease it by 3 amps that doesn't mean you have 3 amps more on the 6.3 volt winding maybe 1
Just check if the transformer is getting to hot it runs quite worm anyway but it is a power house so don't worry to much.
Don't go crazy and put two 6AS7s in with two 6336 this will over heat it. but two C3g or one 6,12,25SN7 at .6 amp is fine.
A couple of EL8s will be fine too.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Yes and no if you are drawing less on the 5/3.3 volt winding it leaves a little more power for the other wingdings.
> But if you decrease it by 3 amps that doesn't mean you have 3 amps more on the 6.3 volt winding maybe 1
> Just check if the transformer is getting to hot it runs quite worm anyway but it is a power house so don't worry to much.
> Don't go crazy and put two 6AS7s in with two 6336 this will over heat it. but two C3g or one 6,12,25SN7 at .6 amp is fine.
> A couple of EL8s will be fine too.



The most taxing configuration I might want to run is a pair of 6336 drawing 10 amps and a pair of EL11 drawing 1.8 amps, for a total of 11.8 amps on the 6.3 winding. Would a rectifier drawing only 3 amps on the 5/3.3 winding give me enough of a cushion to do this safely?


----------



## 2359glenn

That should be fine.


----------



## leftside (Jan 24, 2019)

Roon 1.6 + Tidal is fantastic with the new integration with Roon Radio. Discovering lot's of new music. I was never a fan of streaming services, but Tidal can gladly take my $20/month now that it integrates with Roon Radio. Remember I was a "vinyl only for dedicated listening" guy up until a few years ago, but here I am listening to streaming music (lossless of course) through a DAC (and the Glenn amp of course).


----------



## attmci

leftside said:


> Roon 1.6 + Tidal is fantastic with the new integration with Roon Radio. Discovering lot's of new music. I was never a fan of streaming services, but Tidal can gladly take my $20/month now that it integrates with Roon Radio. Remember I was a "vinyl only for dedicated listening" guy up until a few years ago, but here I am listening to streaming music (lossless of course) through a DAC (and the Glenn amp of course).


As I said b4, they are loosing $. I believe they want the big brothers to purchase them in the near future. Apple? Amazon?


----------



## Phantaminum

attmci said:


> As I said b4, they are loosing $. I believe they want the big brothers to purchase them in the near future. Apple? Amazon?



The sad part is that I really enjoy Tidal HQ and Master albums. To my ears it sounds much better than Apples compression and MP3s. If Spotify had HQ albums i’d switch over in a heart beat.


----------



## Monsterzero

Just a follow up tube report.
Got the Chatham 6336b in and I like the way they sound on the Verite quite a bit. The vocals and mids dont seem as distant on them as they did on the RCA 6080s. The 6080 have better bass IMO,but for my ears less bass is better on the Verite.

Using Siemens C3gs,HEXFRED,Chatham 6336b...very nice sound.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Did some spring cleaning today and I’ve decided to put both the GEL3N and Schiit Ragnarok side by side. I have also finally collected my Chord Hugo TT 2 yesterday and brought the Blu Mk II in for a service. 

The LCD-3 is sounding fantastic with the GEL3N and I have been reaching for the LCD-3 most of the time when I just want to chill with some music.


----------



## UntilThen

Nice collection there SI. I have probably sold off some gear which on hindsight I’ve regretted. PrimaLuna Premium Dialogue HP, Eikon & Atticus and Ragnarok.

However it’s the price one has to pay on head-fi hobby’s journey.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> Nice collection there SI. I have probably sold off some gear which on hindsight I’ve regretted. PrimaLuna Premium Dialogue HP, Eikon & Atticus and Ragnarok.
> 
> However it’s the price one has to pay on head-fi hobby’s journey.



Thanks UT, I’m nearing my end point of my head-if journey soon. I am really happy with the gear which I have now and I will be even happier if I don’t upgrade and tinker for the next 2-3 years..


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Did some spring cleaning today and I’ve decided to put both the GEL3N and Schiit Ragnarok side by side. I have also finally collected my Chord Hugo TT 2 yesterday and brought the Blu Mk II in for a service.
> 
> The LCD-3 is sounding fantastic with the GEL3N and I have been reaching for the LCD-3 most of the time when I just want to chill with some music.




Looking really nice Sam!  What a wonderful rectifier you have sitting in that monster EL3N amp.

Here is the mini version of that amp....looks like your amps son, LOL!

 

I love the ZMF Ori headphone with this amp....it produces the best bass of all the amps that I have heard it with.
I will have an LCD 3 coming before too long, can't wait to hear the slam of the bass with the GEL3N...I am thinking it will stay here as my open planar option.
If I like it, I will definitely be getting a headband like yours for it.


----------



## Sound Trooper (Jan 26, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Looking really nice Sam!  What a wonderful rectifier you have sitting in that monster EL3N amp.
> 
> Here is the mini version of that amp....looks like your amps son, LOL!
> 
> ...



Hey Joe, beautiful looking GEL3N you have there, what rectifier are you running now? I think all GEL3N sounds wonderful irregardless of the size, as you rightly mentioned the GEL3N’s bass is fantastic. I do think the mids are wonderfully rounded and the highs have a non-fatiguing quality to it.

I really hope that your LCD-3 will find its way to you soon. Happy days ahead!


----------



## felix3650

Guys, you're making me jealous about your EL3Ns. Can't wait for my funds to be ready and have Glenn build mine too!
After much thought this is my endgame setup:
Holo Cyan -> Glenn's EL3N -> ZMF Auteur (Blackwood)


----------



## Sound Trooper (Jan 26, 2019)

felix3650 said:


> Guys, you're making me jealous about your EL3Ns. Can't wait for my funds to be ready and have Glenn build mine too!
> After much thought this is my endgame setup:
> Holo Cyan -> Glenn's EL3N -> ZMF Auteur (Blackwood)



 Sounds like a plan. I don’t think you can go wrong with the GEL3N!


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 26, 2019)

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey Joe, beautiful looking GEL3N you have there, what rectifier are you running now? I think all GEL3N sounds wonderful irregardless of the size, as you rightly mentioned the GEL3N’s bass is fantastic. I do think the mids are wonderfully rounded and the highs have a non-fatiguing quality to it.
> 
> I really hope the your LCD-3 will find its way to you soon. Happy days ahead!




I am using a GEC U18/20 rectifier at the moment...it is a four volt rectifier.
I was able to grab it rather cheap as it was labeled as an AZ50 tube. Thanks to @gibosi for pointing this out.
It is sort of the little brother to the 5 volt version U52, which is a pretty expensive rectifier.

Would love to have a WE422A like yours someday.....hey I can dream. right.  

Should get the LCD 3 sometime in February, if all goes well.


----------



## whirlwind

felix3650 said:


> Guys, you're making me jealous about your EL3Ns. Can't wait for my funds to be ready and have Glenn build mine too!
> After much thought this is my endgame setup:
> Holo Cyan -> Glenn's EL3N -> ZMF Auteur (Blackwood)




That is going to be quite good set-up... good times ahead.
I love the look of the blackwood!


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> I am using a GEC U18/20 rectifier at the moment...it is a four volt rectifier.
> I was able to grab it rather cheap as it was labeled as an AZ50 tube. Thanks to @gibosi for pointing this out.
> It is sort of the little brother to the 5 volt version U52, which is a pretty expensive rectifier.
> 
> ...



That’s a great tube as well! I’m sure you will get your hands on a WE422A, it’s only a matter of when not if.. . Did you get the pre-fazored LCD-3?


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Just a follow up tube report.
> Got the Chatham 6336b in and I like the way they sound on the Verite quite a bit. The vocals and mids dont seem as distant on them as they did on the RCA 6080s. The 6080 have better bass IMO,but for my ears less bass is better on the Verite.
> 
> Using Siemens C3gs,HEXFRED,Chatham 6336b...very nice sound.



Maybe try a different driver that may cut back on bass.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> That’s a great tube as well! I’m sure you will get your hands on a WE422A, it’s only a matter of when not if.. . Did you get the pre-fazored LCD-3?




Yes, a pre-fazor is the plan.


----------



## Sound Trooper (Jan 26, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Yes, a pre-fazor is the plan.



Brilliant! Let me know what you think of it when it reaches you.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Brilliant! Let me know what you think of it reaches you.




I will report back.


----------



## Sound Trooper

It is pointless to resist...


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> It is pointless to resist...




Ha!.  Great pic.


----------



## felix3650

Sound Trooper said:


> Sounds like a plan. I don’t think you can go wrong with the GEL3N!


Right?  



whirlwind said:


> That is going to be quite good set-up... good times ahead.
> I love the look of the blackwood!


I'm thinking of building a wooden "rack" to place all the 3 gears. Like the DAC in the lower compartment, the tube amp in the upper and 2 handles for 2 pairs of headphones on the sides along with some cable management "pockets".
I just need to find myself some precision woodworking tools


----------



## whirlwind

felix3650 said:


> Right?
> 
> 
> I'm thinking of building a wooden "rack" to place all the 3 gears. Like the DAC in the lower compartment, the tube amp in the upper and 2 handles for 2 pairs of headphones on the sides along with some cable management "pockets".
> I just need to find myself some precision woodworking tools



Sounds great...build them sturdy if  want the GEL3N up top....she is quite the "hefty" girl .


----------



## gibosi

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey Joe, beautiful looking GEL3N you have there, what rectifier are you running now? I think all GEL3N sounds wonderful irregardless of the size, as you rightly mentioned the GEL3N’s bass is fantastic. I do think the mids are wonderfully rounded and the highs have a non-fatiguing quality to it.
> 
> I really hope that your LCD-3 will find its way to you soon. Happy days ahead!



I would really like to be able to hear a GEL3N compared to the GOTL with EL3N as drivers. Yes, the "bass is fantastic", the "mids are wonderfully rounded" and the "highs have a non-fatiguing quality."


----------



## attmci (Jan 27, 2019)

gibosi said:


> I would really like to be able to hear a GEL3N compared to the GOTL with EL3N as drivers. Yes, the "bass is fantastic", the "mids are wonderfully rounded" and the "highs have a non-fatiguing quality."


I highly recommend upgrade your headphone first. But I know you won't.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Maybe try a different driver that may cut back on bass.



The bass is pretty good right now. Its not as tight and deep as on the 6080s,but the 6336s are NOS and prolly need some time to settle in before I say one is better than the other...but man are these hefty,heavy tubes!

What driver tube would you recommend that places its priorities on maximum holographic staging,with a bright-ish leaning?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> The bass is pretty good right now. Its not as tight and deep as on the 6080s,but the 6336s are NOS and prolly need some time to settle in before I say one is better than the other...but man are these hefty,heavy tubes!
> 
> What driver tube would you recommend that places its priorities on maximum holographic staging,with a bright-ish leaning?



Try the EL8's adapted to C3g...


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Try the EL8's adapted to C3g...



I would agree the EL8 with a EL3N to C3g adapter should do the trick.


----------



## mordy

Some of the owners of the GOTL with 9 sockets have successfully used triple drivers (pioneered by JV) - one in the 6SN7 socket, and a pair in the C3g sockets (C3g, EL tubes).
It appears to me that some of the small signal tubes benefit from this reinforcement, (6N3P, 5670, 12XX7 tubes, EEC804 etc) sounding better as a triple, while using one dual triode from the 6SN7 family (or other dual triodes) might sound better without pairing it with more drivers.
Does anybody else have this experience, and is there any explanation for this?
Another way of using the GOTL is to have combinations of different pairs of power tubes. It may not be the traditional way to mix tubes, but as long as they are pairs and don't exceed the total current draw ratings it appears that no harm is done, and a possibility to further tailor the sound.
Any thoughts?


----------



## gibosi

It seems to be a slow day, perhaps a good day for a short film from the archives of the Hagley Museum and Library:

*A First Look into the RCA Laboratories, 1942*

https://www.hagley.org/librarynews/first-look-rca-laboratories-1942


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> It seems to be a slow day, perhaps a good day for a short film from the archives of the Hagley Museum and Library:
> 
> *A First Look into the RCA Laboratories, 1942*
> 
> https://www.hagley.org/librarynews/first-look-rca-laboratories-1942




Pretty neat watching them blowing the glass....quite amazing that the place did not burn down


----------



## Monsterzero

I think I have a new favorite tube roll on my GOTL for the Verite.
Mullard GZ32,EL8s w/ C3G adapters,6x 6BX7s....Really punchy,detailed and very good 3D imaging.
Its the first roll ive been able to use the 6BX7s w/o them slamming the Verite too hard for my tastes.

"Lucky Man"-ELP sounds friggin amazing!


----------



## 2359glenn

Great I didn't know you had the EL8/EL3N to C3g adapters.
The EL8 is lean on the bass.


----------



## 2359glenn

Everybody listen to your tube amps to stay worm tonight.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Great I didn't know you had the EL8/EL3N to C3g adapters.
> The EL8 is lean on the bass.



@JazzVinyl was kind enough to send them to me to try. I like the combo so much im buying them


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> Everybody listen to your tube amps to stay worm tonight.



With the combined power of our GOTLs, EL3N, and TonyNewman's Nuclear reactor 300b amp, I'm sure we can make it cozy for everyone on the Northern side of the United States.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Shakin' It Here,  Boss....


----------



## 2359glenn

But Tony Newman is in the middle of the summer there he needs no heat.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Shakin' It Here,  Boss....



Those 6BL7s ca through some heat!


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Those 6BL7s ca through some heat!



Yes sir! And throw some bass notes at ya, too


----------



## whirlwind

Brrrrr....it is a crispy minus 5 degrees F  here in Ohio right now


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Brrrrr....it is a crispy minus 5 degrees F  here in Ohio right now



A not so bad 16 in NC glad I am not still living in upstate NY.  Will have to call the kids later to see how cold it is there Something like -30.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> A not so bad 16 in NC glad I am not still living in upstate NY.  Will have to call the kids later to see how cold it is there Something like -30.



I am sure it is very cold in upstate N.Y.

Chicago this morning was -16 F and yesterday it was -23 F there.

Good day to stay in the house and listen to music.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> I am sure it is very cold in upstate N.Y.
> 
> Chicago this morning was -16 F and yesterday it was -23 F there.
> 
> Good day to stay in the house and listen to music.



Was 4 degrees here this morning in downstate New York, but now it is a balmy 17F. But supposed to reach around 50 on Monday......


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Was 4 degrees here this morning in downstate New York, but now it is a balmy 17F. But supposed to reach around 50 on Monday......



Suppose to be nice here Monday also. I am looking forward to it.


----------



## mordy

Thanks to Glenn I was able to acquire a National Union 6F8G (relabeled Philco) from the third quarter 1943 - date code 3 U.
Previously I had bought a 1945 National Union 6C8G tube that I liked. Did a comparison today - as expected they sound very similar. The amplification factor of the 6C8G is 36; the 6F8G is 20, and thus the same as a 6SN7. The nod goes to the 6F8G with a sweeter sound and slightly better definition in the bass.



If you look at the tube you can see the black silicone tape band. These tubes can be microphonic, and this tube is no exception; tapping on the chassis causes loud noises. Luckily, these noises do not occur when just leaving it in place and listening. In the past I had luck eliminating or lowering these noises with the tape, but with this tube there was no improvement so far (removing the tape leaves no residue and is easy to do).
I have a Tung Sol flat plate 6F8G that was unusable because of howling microphonics, but after leaving it to cook a few hours all the noises suddenly disappeared. Even though this NU tube does not cause any noise when left alone, perhaps the microphonics will be less or go away with time.
IMHO this tube sounds just as good as the 6SN7W and the TS BGRP  but, as always, slightly different.


----------



## pichu

I need one of these amps so badly. The tax returns just came in and I have a Lyr 3 who would be glad to get sold hmmm....


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Thanks to Glenn I was able to acquire a National Union 6F8G (relabeled Philco) from the third quarter 1943 - date code 3 U.
> Previously I had bought a 1945 National Union 6C8G tube that I liked. Did a comparison today - as expected they sound very similar. The amplification factor of the 6C8G is 36; the 6F8G is 20, and thus the same as a 6SN7. The nod goes to the 6F8G with a sweeter sound and slightly better definition in the bass.
> 
> If you look at the tube you can see the black silicone tape band. These tubes can be microphonic, and this tube is no exception; tapping on the chassis causes loud noises. Luckily, these noises do not occur when just leaving it in place and listening. In the past I had luck eliminating or lowering these noises with the tape, but with this tube there was no improvement so far (removing the tape leaves no residue and is easy to do).
> ...




Great find Mordy! I’d really love to try a NU 6F8G but they’re hard to find or always more expensive then what I’d like to pay for. Have you tried Herbie’s dampening rings? 

https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/tube-dampers

They’re reusable and can help with microphonic tubes.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

JazzVinyl said:


> Got my Ken Rad 1633 today, have it in, sounds wonderful.
> 
> Wish you a speedy recovery, PH.....!!!


This might be an excellent tube for me to try with the Verite! Thanks for making me think of it....

My 1633 sounds bright to me, and I give the ecc31 pretty much all my time, but with the Verite I think it could be an excellent combo!


----------



## gibosi

I continued to be mesmerized by a pair of Telefunken EL11. Ordinarily I am no fan of Telefunken, as I usually find them to be too airy and too thin. But these EL11, coupled with TS 6BX7 and Mullard GZ32, are providing exceptional mid-range detail. I am hooked.


----------



## leftside

Phantaminum said:


> Great find Mordy! I’d really love to try a NU 6F8G but they’re hard to find or always more expensive then what I’d like to pay for. Have you tried Herbie’s dampening rings?
> 
> https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/tube-dampers
> 
> They’re reusable and can help with microphonic tubes.


I have a spare Philco that works and tests well. I could sell it for a very reasonable price (i.e. much cheaper than eBay). I think it's also a National Union. @mordy can you post better internal pics of your NU 6F8G?

I obtained a box of 6F8G tubes locally the other week. Philco, Marconi (tho I think both of these could be NU as they look exactly the same as some NU VT-99 I have), Raytheon, bunch of RCA (currently running 2 in the WA22), TS 6C8G and a TS VT-99.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> I have a spare Philco that works and tests well. I could sell it for a very reasonable price (i.e. much cheaper than eBay). I think it's also a National Union. @mordy can you post better internal pics of your NU 6F8G?
> 
> I obtained a box of 6F8G tubes locally the other week. Philco, Marconi (tho I think both of these could be NU as they look exactly the same as some NU VT-99 I have), Raytheon, bunch of RCA (currently running 2 in the WA22), TS 6C8G and a TS VT-99.



NU 6F8G pics:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1624#post-14697408


----------



## attmci (Feb 2, 2019)

leftside said:


> I have a spare Philco that works and tests well. I could sell it for a very reasonable price (i.e. much cheaper than eBay). I think it's also a National Union. @mordy can you post better internal pics of your NU 6F8G?
> 
> I obtained a box of 6F8G tubes locally the other week. Philco, Marconi (tho I think both of these could be NU as they look exactly the same as some NU VT-99 I have), Raytheon, bunch of RCA (currently running 2 in the WA22), TS 6C8G and a TS VT-99.


I believe his NU needs time to wake up. Stan sale any NOS tubes. Mordy also has another secret weapon. LOL

Canada Marconi are most likely RCA. I love those 1940's smoke glass RCAs too.

Nothing wrong with the NU 6F8Gs, but also nothing special. There was one guy said he like the NU 6F8G about 10 years ago, and that's it.


----------



## leftside (Feb 2, 2019)

Thanks @gibosi

Turns out I have a right old mix of tubes in that box:
4 * RCA 6F8G. Red print, BM date codes, black flat ladder plates, rectangle bottom getter
1 * Raytheon 6F8G/VT-99, SC8762A, military, black T plates, foil getter
1 * Philco (National Union) 6F8G, 3S, black round plates, D getter
1 * Philco 6F8G, P9, black T plates, smoked grey glass
1 * Philco 6F8G, S3 M-R, black T plates, smoked grey glass
2 * Marconi Canada 6F8G, black T plates, smoked grey glass (look exactly the same as the Philco from above and even come with Philco boxes)
1 * Tung-Sol VT-99, SC545A on military box, black flat ladder plates, smoked grey glass

Also have:
2 * Tung-Sol VT-99, SC603A on military boxes, black flat ladder plates, smoked grey glass
1 * National Union VT-99, SC545A on military box, black round plates, foil getter
1 * National Union VT-99, SC545A on military box, black round plates, D getter
2 * Tung-Sol 6C8G, 322752, grey round plates, D getter.


----------



## Phantaminum

leftside said:


> I have a spare Philco that works and tests well. I could sell it for a very reasonable price (i.e. much cheaper than eBay). I think it's also a National Union. @mordy can you post better internal pics of your NU 6F8G?
> 
> I obtained a box of 6F8G tubes locally the other week. Philco, Marconi (tho I think both of these could be NU as they look exactly the same as some NU VT-99 I have), Raytheon, bunch of RCA (currently running 2 in the WA22), TS 6C8G and a TS VT-99.



Leftside,

I would be most gracious if you would! Been looking for one for awhile but they keep popping up for $50 or more on a single. Let me know what you need from me.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> I continued to be mesmerized by a pair of Telefunken EL11. Ordinarily I am no fan of Telefunken, as I usually find them to be too airy and too thin. But these EL11, coupled with TS 6BX7 and Mullard GZ32, are providing exceptional mid-range detail. I am hooked.



Are those the same adapters used for the EL8?


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Are those the same adapters used for the EL8?



Unfortunately no. The EL11 has a very different base than the EL3N and EL8. So you need another adapter, EL11 tp C3g, which you can purchase from the same person who makes the EL3N to C3g adapters.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> I have a spare Philco that works and tests well. I could sell it for a very reasonable price (i.e. much cheaper than eBay). I think it's also a National Union. @mordy can you post better internal pics of your NU 6F8G?
> 
> I obtained a box of 6F8G tubes locally the other week. Philco, Marconi (tho I think both of these could be NU as they look exactly the same as some NU VT-99 I have), Raytheon, bunch of RCA (currently running 2 in the WA22), TS 6C8G and a TS VT-99.


Hi leftside,
There is only one thing I can add after the excellent pictures that gibosi posted of the NU 6F8G. The tube pictured has a date code 3 S. The number indicates the year - 1943. The month code is O P U S, where each letter indicates which quarter the tube was manufactured. Thus S means the fourth quarter.
Well, one more thing that can help in dating a tube. During the WW2 there was a rationing of certain items that were needed in the war effort, including vacuum tubes, but some were allotted for the civilian market. These tubes are marked MR, which means Manufacturers Replacement (or something similar). So if you find a tube without a date code or a code that is hard to decipher, if it says MR it means that it was manufactured between 1942 and 1945.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately no. The EL11 has a very different base than the EL3N and EL8. So you need another adapter, EL11 tp C3g, which you can purchase from the same person who makes the EL3N to C3g adapters.


Hi gibosi,
I  notice that you use the tubular Telefunken EL11. I also have the ST (Shoulder Type) that I feel sound better. The ones I have are from the mid 40's.





The base is called German Steel and IMHO is the best octal base with a positive click feel inserting them - wish that this would have been the industry standard.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Hi leftside,
> There is only one thing I can add after the excellent pictures that gibosi posted of the NU 6F8G. The tube pictured has a date code 3 S. The number indicates the year - 1943. The month code is O P U S, where each letter indicates which quarter the tube was manufactured. Thus S means the fourth quarter.
> Well, one more thing that can help in dating a tube. During the WW2 there was a rationing of certain items that were needed in the war effort, including vacuum tubes, but some were allotted for the civilian market. These tubes are marked MR, which means Manufacturers Replacement (or something similar). So if you find a tube without a date code or a code that is hard to decipher, if it says MR it means that it was manufactured between 1942 and 1945.


Good info! One of those Philco tubes has "MR" on it, as does the corresponding Philco box.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Great find Mordy! I’d really love to try a NU 6F8G but they’re hard to find or always more expensive then what I’d like to pay for. Have you tried Herbie’s dampening rings?
> 
> https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/tube-dampers
> 
> They’re reusable and can help with microphonic tubes.


Hi Phantaminum,
I have no experience with Herbie's rings. Read up on the subject some time back and decided against trying them. As I remember, too many conflicting opinions, and of course, the price.
Personally, I find a $2 roll of silicone tape more appealing lol. And if it does not work, I could repair a leaky pipe with the tape - try that with them "rings"!


----------



## mordy

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> This might be an excellent tube for me to try with the Verite! Thanks for making me think of it....
> 
> My 1633 sounds bright to me, and I give the ecc31 pretty much all my time, but with the Verite I think it could be an excellent combo!


Hi BNC,
The Ken-Rad 1633 is very hard to find - in the past few months I have only seen them for sale twice. However, based on other people's observations, all the K-R tubes from that era sound very similar. A K-R 6C8G or 6/12SL7 may be a good and cheaper alternative.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately no. The EL11 has a very different base than the EL3N and EL8. So you need another adapter, EL11 tp C3g, which you can purchase from the same person who makes the EL3N to C3g adapters.





mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> I  notice that you use the tubular Telefunken EL11. I also have the ST (Shoulder Type) that I feel sound better. The ones I have are from the mid 40's.
> 
> 
> ...



How would you guys say these sound vs. the EL8s? Im getting great bass from the EL8s when paired with a GZ32+6 GE 6BX7s,but anytime someone mentions great mids,my ears perk up. Literally.


----------



## mordy

Hi Monsterzero,
I don't have the same version of the GOTL that you have - using a HEXFRED as rectifier so I don't know if a comparison is going to be useful.
However, like some other people, I personally found the EL8 lacking in the bass, but I can compensate for it by adding another driver tube in the 6SN7 slot. Adding in a 6N3P Istok tube produced solid state type bass to the point of being even a little too much....
But I will try the ST TFK EL11 later to see how they compare to the EL8.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

mordy said:


> Hi BNC,
> The Ken-Rad 1633 is very hard to find - in the past few months I have only seen them for sale twice. However, based on other people's observations, all the K-R tubes from that era sound very similar. A K-R 6C8G or 6/12SL7 may be a good and cheaper alternative.


You know what- I just looked at mine, I have the VT-231, NOT the 1633...

Been a while since I used it. Why I forgot it’s name lol


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> I  notice that you use the tubular Telefunken EL11. I also have the ST (Shoulder Type) that I feel sound better. The ones I have are from the mid 40's.



If I have a choice, I usually always get the oldest I can find. However, compared to the "Feliks crowd", I got into the EL pentodes fairly late, and it appears that you guys had already grabbed all the good ones! lol 

Anyway, my tubular Telefunken EL11 are dated Sep 1951, which is still pretty early, and the price was good, so I pulled the trigger. And in the meantime, I will wait for a good deal on a pair of the older ST bottles.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> How would you guys say these sound vs. the EL8s? Im getting great bass from the EL8s when paired with a GZ32+6 GE 6BX7s,but anytime someone mentions great mids,my ears perk up. Literally.



To my ears, the Telefunken EL11 are brighter and more airy than the Valvo EL8. And as a result with the Valvo, I find a Holland-made GZ34 to match up very nicely. But the GZ34 is a bit too bright with the Telefunken, and I find that the Mullard GZ32 to be a better match. But of course, YMMV.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> I believe his NU needs time to wake up. Stan sale any NOS tubes. Mordy also has another secret weapon. LOL
> 
> Canada Marconi are most likely RCA. I love those 1940's smoke glass RCAs too.
> 
> Nothing wrong with the NU 6F8Gs, but also nothing special. There was one guy said he like the NU 6F8G about 10 years ago, and that's it.


Hi attmci,
The 75 year old NU 6F8G is waking up gracefully without too much groaning and crackling lol. ESR1 (Stan) has 6F8G tubes listed for a reasonable price. 
I have 6F8G tubes from RCA, Sylvania, Ken-Rad, Raytheon, Tung Sol and National Union. Most of them are from the 1940s. Of these the NU sounds the best to me.
One of the surprising things (to me) that I have discovered is that the same tube can sound different in different amps. So when I say that this tube sounds very good, I just mean in my GOTL amp. It is altogether possible that the NU tube will not sound as good in another amp, but I do know from other people that have the GOTL that this tube sounds good to them as well in this amp.
Since we all have different equipment, different taste, and different hearing I have become very tolerant of other people's opinions. If somebody says that a Tung Sol reissue 6SN7GTB sounds the greatest in his amp I have no problem with it, although it sounds syrupy and slow in my amp. Another example is the Svetlana 6H13C or derivatives. Some people claim that this tube is not worth owning, but people who have used it in the GOTL report very positive results. 
The main thing is to enjoy the tube rolling, equipment, or music (or combination thereof) - whatever brings you enjoyment.
Have fun!


----------



## attmci (Feb 3, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> The 75 year old NU 6F8G is waking up gracefully without too much groaning and crackling lol. ESR1 (Stan) has 6F8G tubes listed for a reasonable price.
> I have 6F8G tubes from RCA, Sylvania, Ken-Rad, Raytheon, Tung Sol and National Union. Most of them are from the 1940s. Of these the NU sounds the best to me.
> One of the surprising things (to me) that I have discovered is that the same tube can sound different in different amps. So when I say that this tube sounds very good, I just mean in my GOTL amp. It is altogether possible that the NU tube will not sound as good in another amp, but I do know from other people that have the GOTL that this tube sounds good to them as well in this amp.
> ...



Just enjoy your tube, and keep rolling.

I DO have my favorite driver tube. But I don't want to recommend it to everyone. I have my tastes.  There's a big chance I might like some specific qualities that you dislike.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> If I have a choice, I usually always get the oldest I can find. However, compared to the "Feliks crowd", I got into the EL pentodes fairly late, and it appears that you guys had already grabbed all the good ones! lol
> 
> Anyway, my tubular Telefunken EL11 are dated Sep 1951, which is still pretty early, and the price was good, so I pulled the trigger. And in the meantime, I will wait for a good deal on a pair of the older ST bottles.


Hi gibosi,
I found that German eBay is a good source for the EL11 tubes but I am sure you already knew that. 
Just looked now at British, German and Polish eBay but, as you say, slim pickings. However, ppo - patience pays off.....(just made up that abbreviation - not in the dictionary with this meaning).


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Just enjoy your tube, and keep rolling.
> 
> I DO have my favorite driver tube on my amp. But I am very hesitate to recommend it to everyone. I totally understood these issues.


Hi attmci,
Over the years I have found certain observations re tubes can be shared with others with a good consensus.
In the beginning of my tube rolling experience I did not think that people would hear things the same way I do, given all the different parameters. However, to my surprise, I did find that people can agree on certain things and thus I have more confidence in my observations. 
At the same time, you also learn, from reading, how other forum members hear things, and you realize that their taste and preferences are different and not the same as yours. 
All that being said, I am very interested in what your favorite tubes are.
Who knows, maybe they are sitting somewhere in my stash?
A lot depends on synergy with other tubes. Some tubes I use now were relegated to storage because I did not like them, but suddenly, on somebody else's recommendation in a combination with other tubes, they just sound great.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> To my ears, the Telefunken EL11 are brighter and more airy than the Valvo EL8. And as a result with the Valvo, I find a Holland-made GZ34 to match up very nicely. But the GZ34 is a bit too bright with the Telefunken, and I find that the Mullard GZ32 to be a better match. But of course, YMMV.



Thanks. How would you rate the 3D imaging and bass between the two?


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 3, 2019)

Thanks to Sam, @Sound Trooper, for his kindness as he has sent me a couple Valvo EL8.

Since these have probably been sitting for decades unused, they have some noise coming from them, so I will let them run
awhile and hopefully they will settle down.

Thanks again, Sam.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Thanks to Sam, @Sound Trooper, for his kindness as he has sent me a couple Valvo EL8.
> 
> Since these have probably been sitting for decades unused, they have some noise coming from them, so I will let them run
> awhile and hopefully they will settle down.
> ...



Looking good Joe. I've not even plugged mine in yet..


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Thanks to Sam, @Sound Trooper, for his kindness as he has sent me a couple Valvo EL8.
> 
> Since these have probably been sitting for decades unused, they have some noise coming from them, so I will let them run
> awhile and hopefully they will settle down.
> ...



Forgetting the noise how do the EL8s sound?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Forgetting the noise how do the EL8s sound?



They have less bass weight than the EL3N when using the LCD 3.
This is the only headphone that I have listened to so far.

I think maybe they have a tad bit more air up top, but it is hard to tell much as they can get rather noisy at times.

For me the EL3N bass just hits the sweet spot...it's big, bold, goes *deep* and *slams *hard and I am a huge fan of it.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> They have less bass weight than the EL3N when using the LCD 3.
> This is the only headphone that I have listened to so far.
> 
> I think maybe they have a tad bit more air up top, but it is hard to tell much as they can get rather noisy at times.
> ...


Congratulations on the LCD-3(no F). 

Have you tried it on both 2359glenn GEL3N Amp and 2359glenn Custom OTL (and the new SS amp)? Any differences? How it compare to the other headphones?

Please take your time.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> They have less bass weight than the EL3N when using the LCD 3.
> This is the only headphone that I have listened to so far.
> 
> I think maybe they have a tad bit more air up top, but it is hard to tell much as they can get rather noisy at times.
> ...



I love the sound of EL3Ns pretty much over any other tube does everything right.


----------



## whirlwind

attmci said:


> Congratulations on the LCD-3(no F).
> 
> Have you tried it on both 2359glenn GEL3N Amp and 2359glenn Custom OTL (and the new SS amp)? Any differences? How it compare to the other headphones?
> 
> Please take your time.




I have only tried the LCD 3 with the GEL3N  and the SS amp....I will save most of my impression until much more listening.

I can say that the SS amp has the blackest back round.
The EL3N wins in the best bass and biggest sound department.

Even though the SS amp has more pure power, it is not necessary for this headphone as the transformer coupled amp seems to have the most authority over the headphone.





2359glenn said:


> I love the sound of EL3Ns pretty much over any other tube does everything right.



Yes sir, no arguments from me..big bass notes with lots of texture....smooth mids and a treble that never bothers your ears no matter how long or how loud you listen.


----------



## rnros (Feb 3, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> How would you guys say these sound vs. the EL8s? Im getting great bass from the EL8s when paired with a GZ32+6 GE 6BX7s,but anytime someone mentions great mids,my ears perk up. Literally.



E11 and EL3N are the same tube design, different base and different manufacturer, so SQ will differ in the usual Telefunken vs Valvo way.

But with either of these tubes in the GOTL, you do have to account for the additional heater current,  an additional 0.8A for the pair.
(EL11 or EL3N @ 0.9A vs EL8 @ 0.5A)

Point being, you can hear the EL3N with the same adapter you are using for the EL8. Just do the total heater current math.
IDK, you may have already tried the EL3N. If not, IMO, it sounds great in the GOTL.

Edit: Also, mordy's way of adjusting tonal balance by adding a third tube, (JV Trio) is not a bad way to go. IMO, you do loose a little bit of clarity, depending on the selected tube, but with many recordings, it's not that critical. Just choose a mid-forward 9pin tube, and choosing one with a 300mA heater doesn't add that much to the total heater draw. (6C8Gs are also 300mA. If using a 6SN7, account for the 600mA.) I've not tried many combinations, of the very few I've tried, like mordy, I found a clean SQ 9pin tube (6N3P-E) to be a good choice.


----------



## 2359glenn

Even though the SS amp has more pure power, it is not necessary for this headphone as the transformer coupled amp seems to have the most authority over the headphone.

Pretty good for a 3 watt amp.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks. How would you rate the 3D imaging and bass between the two?



That's a little hard to answer in any meaningful way...  I haven't listened to the Valvo EL8s in a while, and when I did, I used a different rectifier. Further, I am not really a bass connoisseur...

That said, I do not find the Telefunken's bass lacking in any way, and the 3D imaging is superb.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> How would you guys say these sound vs. the EL8s? Im getting great bass from the EL8s when paired with a GZ32+6 GE 6BX7s,but anytime someone mentions great mids,my ears perk up. Literally.



With that adapter you should try a pair of EL3N tubes they sound great to me.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Even though the SS amp has more pure power, it is not necessary for this headphone as the transformer coupled amp seems to have the most authority over the headphone.
> 
> Pretty good for a 3 watt amp.




Yes indeed.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> With that adapter you should try a pair of EL3N tubes they sound great to me.



imho...MZ might be swamped with bass via the EL3N's...he has the "exotic cone material" HP's that tend to emphasize bass notes.

But EL3N is cheap enuogh...to give them a whirl and see...


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> That's a little hard to answer in any meaningful way...  I haven't listened to the Valvo EL8s in a while, and when I did, I used a different rectifier. Further, I am not really a bass connoisseur...
> 
> That said, I do not find the Telefunken's bass lacking in any way, and the 3D imaging is superb.



Thanks! Im a huge fan of the Telefunken sound and will probably give these a whirl when funds permit.



2359glenn said:


> With that adapter you should try a pair of EL3N tubes they sound great to me.



Noted.



JazzVinyl said:


> imho...MZ might be swamped with bass via the EL3N's...he has the "exotic cone material" HP's that tend to emphasize bass notes.
> 
> But EL3N is cheap enuogh...to give them a whirl and see...



You read my mind. Theres a very fine line on the Verite between not enough bass and too much bass. Im not lacking any bass on the EL8s+6BX7s+GZ32.
The Verite has crazy good imaging and 3D holographic staging,so im looking at tubes to compliment those traits w/o adding too much bass to the equation. Being a warm headphone to begin with bright revealing tubes sound the best to my ears.

My funds are quite limited as Ive mentioned before,and im saving up for a Western Electric 422a. Once that tube is in place I will build around it for the Verite.

The Auteur is on the totally opposite end of the sound spectrum though.


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> ... Theres a very fine line on the Verite between not enough bass and too much bass. ...



Worth a try, in my GOTL, the EL3N is not at all uncontrolled or boomy with the bass.
Great tube to have in the rotation while they are still available at low prices.

Only problem is, after you hear them, you may also want the GEL3N.


----------



## gibosi

I now have three different versions of the Philips EL3N. Previously, a pair manufactured by WIRAG in Austria in the mid 1950's, a pair manufactured by Loewe Opta in Berlin, also manufactured in the mid 1950's and two pairs, which arrived today, likely manufactured by Philips in Eindhoven, before the spring of 1940.

The labeling on the packaging indicates acceptance by the Swedish military in September, 1944. However, Germany invaded Holland in the spring of 1940 and took possession of all Philips assets, redirecting them to the German war effort. Sweden successfully maintained its neutrality during the war and I seriously doubt that Germany would have actually sold vacuum tubes to a non-allied country. But of course, I can't know for sure.

But even if I am wrong, still these were manufactured before 1944. And unfortunately, as this was before Philips instituted their production code, there are no codes on these tubes to indicate when they were manufactured. 




 

My guess is that Sweden might have had a centralized purchasing authority which procured the tubes prior to 1940. And in 1944, when a request came in from the Swedish military, they were then labeled and dispatched.

As Sweden is somewhat close to @Oskari's neck of the woods, perhaps he might have some insights? 



I assume this was hot-stamped into the base by Swedish authorities....

 

To the left, the tallest, Eindhoven, in the middle, WIRAG, and on the right, Loewe Opta. And I notice that the EL3(N) is printed on the Eindhoven tube. The original pinched-waist straight bottle EL3 was introduced in 1936 and the ST bottle EL3N came a couple years later, 1938/9. The fact that N was placed in parentheses suggests that it was an early version of the EL3N. And again, this suggests manufacture prior to 1940. At this time, Eindhoven was a major manufacturing facility, but in the mid-1950's, production was shifted to other manufacturing sites, in this case, WIRAG and Loewe Opta, and Eindhoven focused on research.

Anyway, so much for my historical guesses! lol  What matters is the sound! And I hope to find some time soon to check them out.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> The labeling on the packaging indicates acceptance by the Swedish military in September, 1944. However, Germany invaded Holland in the spring of 1940 and took possession of all Philips assets, redirecting them to the German war effort. Sweden successfully maintained its neutrality during the war and I seriously doubt that Germany would have actually sold vacuum tubes to a non-allied country. But of course, I can't know for sure.
> 
> …
> 
> As Sweden is somewhat close to @Oskari's neck of the woods, perhaps he might have some insights?


Well, I have my guess. 

I guess that Sweden probably was able to buy them during the war because they had things to trade and they traded with whomever they could. See:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_iron-ore_mining_during_World_War_II


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I now have three different versions of the Philips EL3N. Previously, a pair manufactured by WIRAG in Austria in the mid 1950's, a pair manufactured by Loewe Opta in Berlin, also manufactured in the mid 1950's and two pairs, which arrived today, likely manufactured by Philips in Eindhoven, before the spring of 1940.
> 
> The labeling on the packaging indicates acceptance by the Swedish military in September, 1944. However, Germany invaded Holland in the spring of 1940 and took possession of all Philips assets, redirecting them to the German war effort. Sweden successfully maintained its neutrality during the war and I seriously doubt that Germany would have actually sold vacuum tubes to a non-allied country. But of course, I can't know for sure.
> 
> ...






I am very interested in your findings here


----------



## felix3650

rnros said:


> Worth a try, in my GOTL, the EL3N is not at all uncontrolled or boomy with the bass.
> Great tube to have in the rotation while they are still available at low prices.
> 
> Only problem is, after you hear them, you may also want the GEL3N.


Oh I want an GEL3N even without hearing it..


----------



## mordy (Feb 4, 2019)

gibosi said:


> I now have three different versions of the Philips EL3N. Previously, a pair manufactured by WIRAG in Austria in the mid 1950's, a pair manufactured by Loewe Opta in Berlin, also manufactured in the mid 1950's and two pairs, which arrived today, likely manufactured by Philips in Eindhoven, before the spring of 1940.
> 
> The labeling on the packaging indicates acceptance by the Swedish military in September, 1944. However, Germany invaded Holland in the spring of 1940 and took possession of all Philips assets, redirecting them to the German war effort. Sweden successfully maintained its neutrality during the war and I seriously doubt that Germany would have actually sold vacuum tubes to a non-allied country. But of course, I can't know for sure.
> 
> ...


Hi gibosi,
Will try to loosely translate what it says on the wrapper (I was born in Sweden):
Kungl...: Royal something commission
              Materials Department
              (Quality) Control Bureau
              (Tested and) Passed September 18, 1944
              Distributor Warranty expires one year after the above date
The three crowns stamped into the base is one of the Swedish Royal Shields: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I have seen on wrappers from other tubes from Swedish military storage that they were periodically tested and the wrappers stamped with the test dates which might even be years after manufacture.
Now you have to speak to Glenn who acquired several Swedish made Ericson EL3D tubes - should be the same as EL3N.
There is also another variant - a German Telefunken straight glass EL3N from 1944(?)
And other makes as well....


----------



## gibosi

Hello Mordy,

Thanks for your insight. While I still have my doubts that these were actually sourced from Eindhoven during the German occupation, we will never know for sure. In the end, I am comfortable in stating that these are very early EL3N manufactured before 1944 and that is as accurate as we can get. And I have the same problem when trying to date 4-volt rectifiers manufactured in Eindhoven in the late 1930's and early 1940's. It is just too long ago in a rather chaotic time, and there is likely no none alive today who knows for sure.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I am enjoying my new GOTL with my Auteur's and Verite  . Thanks Glenn was worth the wait for this beauty,

Like to hear the Some Verite recommendations on tube setup that you like and want is the cost for the setup?

Thanks

Rick


----------



## Monsterzero

FunctionalDoc said:


> I am enjoying my new GOTL with my Auteur's and Verite  . Thanks Glenn was worth the wait for this beauty,
> 
> Like to hear the Some Verite recommendations on tube setup that you like and want is the cost for the setup?
> 
> ...



Welcome to the GOTL/Verite/Auteur Owners club. I think thus far its just you and I.

I find the Auteurs and Verites need very different tube rolls...warm for Auteurs,and bright/neutral for Verite.
Right now im using EL8s+6x6BX7s+GZ32 for Verite,but im thinking the GZ34 might be better.
For Auteur I find its easier to dial in the sound you want.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Welcome to the GOTL/Verite/Auteur Owners club. I think thus far its just you and I.
> 
> I find the Auteurs and Verites need very different tube rolls...warm for Auteurs,and bright/neutral for Verite.
> Right now im using EL8s+6x6BX7s+GZ32 for Verite,but im thinking the GZ34 might be better.
> For Auteur I find its easier to dial in the sound you want.



He will need adapters for EL8 to C3g sockets.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> He will need adapters for EL8 to C3g sockets.


if you don't want to mess with adapters  I also like the c3gs with Chatham 6336bs.


----------



## whirlwind

FunctionalDoc said:


> I am enjoying my new GOTL with my Auteur's and Verite  . Thanks Glenn was worth the wait for this beauty,
> 
> Like to hear the Some Verite recommendations on tube setup that you like and want is the cost for the setup?
> 
> ...




Congrats, great amp and headphones ...kick back in your chair and enjoy


----------



## FunctionalDoc

2359glenn said:


> He will need adapters for EL8 to C3g sockets.



What is a good source fro EL8 adapters ? 

So your using EL'8's with adapters in C3g sockets 6 BX7's  and the Gz32 or GZ34 goes in driver all at once? 

New to this tube rolling .


----------



## felix3650

FunctionalDoc said:


> What is a good source fro EL8 adapters ?
> 
> So your using EL'8's with adapters in C3g sockets 6 BX7's  and the Gz32 or GZ34 goes in driver all at once?
> 
> New to this tube rolling .


There's this guy from Bulgaria I think that builds those nice adapters. Others can chime in with his ebay username 

And no. EL8 with adapters go to the C3G sockets. 6x 6BX7 go in the power sockets and the GZ34/GZ32 goes in the rectifier socket


----------



## Monsterzero

FunctionalDoc said:


> What is a good source fro EL8 adapters ?
> 
> So your using EL'8's with adapters in C3g sockets 6 BX7's  and the Gz32 or GZ34 goes in driver all at once?
> 
> New to this tube rolling .



I should note that this roll is probably the most bass light ive gotten the Verite to sound w/o completely gutting it of low end oomph. If you do not find the Verite's bass to be overwhelming at times,you might not dig this roll.

Further,im not sure which wood type you have. I have the pheasantwood,which going off of memory here,seems much darker than the silk version. Zach is sending me a silk version to compare at a later date. Again if you do not find your Verite to sound distant and dark,you might not dig this roll.


----------



## 2359glenn

FunctionalDoc said:


> What is a good source fro EL8 adapters ?
> 
> So your using EL'8's with adapters in C3g sockets 6 BX7's  and the Gz32 or GZ34 goes in driver all at once?
> 
> New to this tube rolling .



No the GZ34 is a rectifier your amp has solid state rectifiers so no GZ34 or GZ32


----------



## Monsterzero (Feb 5, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> No the GZ34 is a rectifier your amp has solid state rectifiers so no GZ34 or GZ32



Well that simplifies things,and saves you some cash!


Another roll which is much simpler,and not as bass light is Siemens C3Gs+ Chatham 6336b+ HEXFRED.
Some members prefer the Cetron 6336b,as they find the Chathams too thin sounding,but again,thick sound is not something the Verite needs IMO.

For the Auteur,swap out the 6336s,and replace with a 6 pack of 6BX7s and youre good to go.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Monsterzero said:


> Well that simplifies things,and saves you some cash!
> 
> 
> Another roll which is much simpler,and not as bass light is Siemens C3Gs+ Chatham 6336b+ HEXFRED.
> ...



How expensive are the Chantham 6336b "s will need 4 or 6 ?  Source to buy from? 
I have the Pheasant wood in Steel. 
Thanks


----------



## Monsterzero

FunctionalDoc said:


> How expensive are the Chantham 6336b "s will need 4 or 6 ?  Source to buy from?
> I have the Pheasant wood in Steel.
> Thanks



You need only two 6336b. I got a pair from Andy @ Vintage Tube Services. Brent Jesse didnt have any.
Paid $72.00 shipped for pair.


----------



## 2359glenn

FunctionalDoc said:


> How expensive are the Chantham 6336b "s will need 4 or 6 ?  Source to buy from?
> I have the Pheasant wood in Steel.
> Thanks



You can only use two 6336s because they draw 5 amps each for the filament. And probably will put out more power then four 6080s


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> My guess is that Sweden might have had a centralized purchasing authority which procured the tubes





mordy said:


> Kungl...: Royal something commission


Yes, that's Kungliga Arméförvaltningen (~ Royal Army [Materiel & Supply] Administration), one of the predecessors of current Försvarets materielverk (FMV, Defence Materiel Administration).


----------



## Monsterzero

Dumb question:

Is it safe to run:
Raytheon 5CU4
EL8s
6x6BX7s?


----------



## 2359glenn (Feb 5, 2019)

Yes that will be fine
5CU4  EL8s and six 6BX7


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> Yes, that's Kungliga Arméförvaltningen (~ Royal Army [Materiel & Supply] Administration), one of the predecessors of current Försvarets materielverk (FMV, Defence Materiel Administration).


Hi Oskari,
It is over 50 years ago since I left Sweden but I still am able to speak, read and understand Swedish, although I am probably getting a little rusty....


----------



## mordy

FunctionalDoc said:


> What is a good source fro EL8 adapters ?
> 
> So your using EL'8's with adapters in C3g sockets 6 BX7's  and the Gz32 or GZ34 goes in driver all at once?
> 
> New to this tube rolling .


Hi Functional Doc,
The EL8 adapters can can be sourced from Deyan in Bulgaria. His eBay name is ein_sof. Email address is gaara234@mail.bg.
Re your question of using the 6336 tubes, since each one draws 5A you can only use two of them in the GOTL -it's liking having 4x6AS7 tubes according to the tube literature.
Using more of them will overtax the transformer that is rated at 13A.


----------



## mordy

Things go better with Coke, or, everything sounds good in the GOTL...
For the time being I have settled on a power tube combination of 4x6BX7 and 2x5998, and I am trying various driver tube combinations - sometimes one tube in the 6SN7 socket, sometimes 2 tubes in the C3g sockets, or, if something seems to be lacking, in all three driver tube positions.
Today I tried a combination of two driver tubes where the total current draw approached the 13A limit - in this case the above mentioned power tubes + 2xEL11 for a total of 12.8A.
There is a sophisticated test to measure if the transformer is getting too hot. You apply your hand to the the transformer and take an approximate reading of what your hand tells you - cold, slightly warm, warm, very warm, hot etc.
I would say that cold to warm is safe. For sure hot or very hot is a no no. I also have my 4 inch PC fan running, drawing hot air away from the amp. With this tube complement my hand tells me slightly warm which translated to around 100F when measured by a less sophisticated cheapie infrared thermometer.
Since I have the fan blowing I may be able to go a little above the 13A to say 14A. I could add another 0.3-0.6A tube, but that will be for another day...
Anyhow, I put in a pair of RFT EL11 tubes. RFT was a high quality tube manufacturer in East Germany and they made many tubes for Siemens and Telefunken.
At first the sound reminded of an old worn 50's tube radio - congested and dull, like a 78 played on a poor record player.
However, it occurred to me that these tubes maybe did not like to be woken up after decades of sleep. Don't have date codes, but a safe bet is 50's or even older.
Well, hast Du mir gesehen (German phrase used in Swedish, meaning can you believe it?), after around 1/2 hour the tubes suddenly opened up and sounded really very nice. It is a full, mellow, vinyl like sound with very good frequency extensions top and bottom and good timbre.
And the obligatory picture:




Everything sounds good in the GOTL.....


----------



## gibosi

RFT (Rundfunk-und Fernmelde-Technik) operated factories in Röhrenwerk Mühlhausen and Neuhaus, and perhaps elsewhere, which were state-owned factories in East Germany during the Cold War.

From 1937 until 1945, Mühlhausen was the site of a Lorenz vacuum tube facility established in support of the German war effort. However, immediately after the war, during the temporary two-month American occupation, all manufacturing equipment was either destroyed or removed, and the factory building was left empty. Some years later, in 1952, the building was occupied by RFT and re-established as a vacuum tube factory outfitted with old Loewe Opta vacuum tube manufacturing equipment relocated from Berlin.

Neuhaus was a former Telefunken factory which was acquired by RFT after the war. It appears that by 1955 both Mühlhausen and Neuhaus were outfitted with Telefunken equipment and I would guess that your RFT EL11 likely sounds very similar to Telefunken EL11.

I can also say that I have a number of RFT 4-volt rectifiers manufactured using Telefunken equipment in Mühlhausen, and they look and sound very similar to their Telefunken equivalents.


----------



## mordy

Could not resist, and added an 0.3A tube to the 6SN7 socket - a russian 6N3P for a total of 13.1A:




These tubes are readily available with pricing starting at $7 for a pair shipped (unless you choose the best offer option for an even lower price).
The only thing I can think of how to describe the sound is a slice of good pizza. Adding the 6N3P is like adding the hot red pepper flakes - same pizza but now spicy; same thing but different and more to my liking.
There is more zing in the treble and more punch in the bass, but the mid range seems to remain the same. These are initial impressions - remains to see if I get tired of the spicy pizza.....
I have another very rare triple mica 6N3P made by Istok in 1956. Using this tube as a triplet with the EL8 tubes yielded very good results but a little too much bass. This garden variety 6N3P is milder in the bass and maybe more suited for triplet use.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Could not resist, and added an 0.3A tube to the 6SN7 socket - a russian 6N3P for a total of 13.1A:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That’s a good little tube. Some of the 5670/2c51 Russian equivalent tubes are fantastic for the price. I think Auditory Canvas still has a gang of them for very cheep. The bass I think gets tighter and not as bloomy after burn in.


----------



## 2359glenn (Feb 6, 2019)

Back to Swiss tubes the two EL3D Ericsson tubes say SER Elektronror and on inspection they look identical to Tungsram EL3D.
They sound good but I think I prefer the sound of Philips that I think are made by WIRAG. Or I am just used to the sound of the Philips
I never listened to any other EL3 type until I got the Ericsson and Tungsram EL3D tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I am smitten with my Harman Kardon (Philips) 12AU7 and six pack of 6BL7's...

So many fine sounding combos in the magic GOTL 



 






.


----------



## Phantaminum

The CBS/Hytron tube I recently acquired reminds me of the Mullard ECC35. There are some big differences but there very close similarities in its presentation of treble, tone, and velvety smooth sound while still having good edge to notes.

It falls behind in sound stage width, air between instruments, and the ECC35s bass authority but it's a great tube for headphones that fall on the analytical side of the fence. Compared to the National Union it doesn't have that extra wet/reverb sound as well as the bass authority. 

The Raytheon 12SN7 is a fun tube. I have the ladder - flat plate version with support posts and at first I didn't like them. Found them a little harsh in the mid-range but damn if it isn't musical. I found myself at first not really knowing what to think of them. After about two hours I'm bobbing my head listening to hip-hop and EDM. It has extended highs and has authoritative bass (this tube really thumps and goes low but doesn't sound out of control). Not as smooth as the most of the other beloved tubes.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> The CBS/Hytron tube I recently acquired reminds me of the Mullard ECC35. There are some big differences but there very close similarities in its presentation of treble, tone, and velvety smooth sound while still having good edge to notes.
> 
> It falls behind in sound stage width, air between instruments, and the ECC35s bass authority but it's a great tube for headphones that fall on the analytical side of the fence. Compared to the National Union it doesn't have that extra wet/reverb sound as well as the bass authority.
> 
> The Raytheon 12SN7 is a fun tube. I have the ladder - flat plate version with support posts and at first I didn't like them. Found them a little harsh in the mid-range but damn if it isn't musical. I found myself at first not really knowing what to think of them. After about two hours I'm bobbing my head listening to hip-hop and EDM. It has extended highs and has authoritative bass (this tube really thumps and goes low but doesn't sound out of control). Not as smooth as the most of the other beloved tubes.


Hi Phantaminum,
Could you specify which CBS/Hytron tube that you are referring to? 12SN7?
I have a bunch of 12SN7 tubes in addition to a TS BGRP; RCA, GE, Sylvania and Westinghouse. Will have to go back and explore them. Also a RCA 12SX7GT tube.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Back to Swiss tubes the two EL3D Ericsson tubes say SER Elektronror and on inspection they look identical to Tungsram EL3D.
> They sound good but I think I prefer the sound of Philips that I think are made by WIRAG. Or I am just used to the sound of the Philips
> I never listened to any other EL3 type until I got the Ericsson and Tungsram EL3D tubes.


Elektronror is just Swedish for vacuum tube. Don't know what SER stands for - maybe Swedish Ericsson since this company was worldwide.
Tungsram was a Hungarian vacuum tube manufacturer. The link to the date chart below provides easy identification of manufacturing dates:
https://www.hobbielektronika.hu/forum/getfile.php?id=295616


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> Could you specify which CBS/Hytron tube that you are referring to? 12SN7?
> I have a bunch of 12SN7 tubes in addition to a TS BGRP; RCA, GE, Sylvania and Westinghouse. Will have to go back and explore them. Also a RCA 12SX7GT tube.



They’re both 12SN7 but I think it’s a CBS from the later years. I haven’t heard an earlier Hytron which from what people have mentioned sound better. 

Pics:

*Raytheon 12SN7
 

CBS 12SN7
 *


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> They’re both 12SN7 but I think it’s a CBS from the later years. I haven’t heard an earlier Hytron which from what people have mentioned sound better.
> 
> Pics:
> 
> ...


The CBS tube is from the 44th week (Nov) 1958. Is there any three digit code on the tube? 
"CBS Hytron was a very high quality USA tube manufacturer. Their production numbers were much smaller than the big name brands (RCA, Sylvania, GE).
The CBS Hytron construction is easy to identify: Clear Top design, Black Plates, the famous hole in the plastic key pin, getter shaped like a `square D`. Vintage is 1950s. Often you will find the 210 factory code, but not always."

The CBS Hytron (EIA) code number is “210”.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> The CBS tube is from the 44th week (Nov) 1958. Is there any three digit code on the tube?
> "CBS Hytron was a very high quality USA tube manufacturer. Their production numbers were much smaller than the big name brands (RCA, Sylvania, GE).
> The CBS Hytron construction is easy to identify: Clear Top design, Black Plates, the famous hole in the plastic key pin, getter shaped like a `square D`. Vintage is 1950s. Often you will find the 210 factory code, but not always."
> 
> The CBS Hytron (EIA) code number is “210”.



Interesting. Your CBS-Hytrons look to have a much different build that mine. I also can't find a three digit factory code on this particular tube. Maybe it's rebadge from some other tube?


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> Interesting. Your CBS-Hytrons look to have a much different build that mine. I also can't find a three digit factory code on this particular tube. Maybe it's rebadge from some other tube?



The tubes in Mordy's picture are the older CBS-Hytron with T-plates. Yours is the newer version with triangular plates.


----------



## leftside

1950's, "D' getter, black plates, seems to a common theme for the better sounding tubes.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> The tubes in Mordy's picture are the older CBS-Hytron with T-plates. Yours is the newer version with triangular plates.



Thanks for the information Gibosi!

Mordi,

How do the CBS-Hytrons sound to you? Say, compared to the National Unions?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Elektronror is just Swedish for vacuum tube. Don't know what SER stands for - maybe Swedish Ericsson since this company was worldwide.
> Tungsram was a Hungarian vacuum tube manufacturer. The link to the date chart below provides easy identification of manufacturing dates:
> https://www.hobbielektronika.hu/forum/getfile.php?id=295616



That would make the Ericsson tubes May 1952


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Thanks for the information Gibosi!
> 
> Mordi,
> 
> How do the CBS-Hytrons sound to you? Say, compared to the National Unions?


I should have clarified that I just picked a picture from the net for illustration and that I don’t have these tubes.
However, I plan to buy a Hytron 12SN7 to find out how it sounds.
Meanwhile, after more listening to the triplets of 6N3P and EL11 I discovered that somehow the soundstage became restricted. To test it I played a recording that projects the sound well outside R and L speakers, but the soundstage remained just between the speakers. 
Pulled out the EL11 tubes and to my surprise the 6N3P did a very good job by itself with a nice wide soundstage and a very good presentation overall. I only had to turn up the volume a little bit, but I have so much gain in the GOTL that it is much more than enough in my system.
So in this case my conclusion is that both the EL11 and the 6N3P do very well on their own but not together.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Elektronror is just Swedish for vacuum tube. Don't know what SER stands for - maybe Swedish Ericsson since this company was worldwide.


Se[e]:


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
Thanks - got it. 
*S*venska *E*lektronro*R = SER*


----------



## gibosi

I'm really enjoying these Eindhoven-made EL3N. But then, I really enjoyed the WIRAG and Loewe Opta EL3N too!  Eventually, I hope to try to make some comparisons, but for now, I don't want to change a thing. 

GEC U18/20, Tung-Sol 6BX7 and Philips/Eindhoven EL3N


----------



## 2359glenn

Aren't those EL3Ns great sounding !!!!  You need to here a EL3Ns as outputs with the EL3N driving a EL3N.


----------



## Phantaminum

@2359glenn I've changed my mind on my favorite combination for the Verite. The headphone can sound dark compared to all of Zach's other offerings. Pair it up with a Tung-Sol (BGRP or Mouse Ears) and whichever drivers you'd like and voila!

It looks like the Tung-Sol's top end sparkle pushes through the dark aspect of the headphone and makes it shine. Let us know what you think when you get it in.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 8, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Aren't those EL3Ns great sounding !!!!  You need to here a EL3Ns as outputs with the EL3N driving a EL3N.



I much prefer the EL3N amp with all EL3N tubes, as compared to using EL8 as drivers.  I really can not say anything bad about the EL8 tubes, but to my ears they do not
provide the same magic as using all EL3N tubes.

I have only tried the WIRAG EL3N tubes.

Listening to some .38 Special now with Atticus and it is glorious.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> @2359glenn I've changed my mind on my favorite combination for the Verite. The headphone can sound dark compared to all of Zach's other offerings. Pair it up with a Tung-Sol (BGRP or Mouse Ears) and whichever drivers you'd like and voila!
> 
> It looks like the Tung-Sol's top end sparkle pushes through the dark aspect of the headphone and makes it shine. Let us know what you think when you get it in.



Monster0 recommends using a EL8 as the driver when using the Verite you will need adapter.


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> Monster0 recommends using a EL8 as the driver when using the Verite you will need adapter.



I have the EL8s and been rolling tubes back and forth with the Verite. I like the EL8s with the Auteurs as it has a mid bass hump and the EL8s can be very linear so they play off each other nicely. I think they're fine with the Verite but my ears feel the TS BGRP make it pop. It really does a good job of making the mids the star of the show and the extra treble works well with Verite. 

Let us know what you're favorite combination is.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn have you tried the EL13, FDD20 and Mullard ECC35 yet? Give it a whirl and let me know what you think of those drivers.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn have you tried the EL13, FDD20 and Mullard ECC35 yet? Give it a whirl and let me know what you think of those drivers.




I will try them this weekend haven't had the time.
I am interested in the FDD20 maybe a new sound for me.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Aren't those EL3Ns great sounding !!!!  You need to here a EL3Ns as outputs with the EL3N driving a EL3N.



I agree! I would really like to hear how your GEL3N compares to the OTL running them as drivers. But even so, I really don't have the space in my listening room or enough time in my life to justify getting another amp. The GOTL is my end game. And now that I have these wonderful adapters allowing me to roll EL3N and EL11, it feels like I have gotten a new amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes the EL3N sounds great as a driver in the OTL. prefer it to most tubes maybe just me


----------



## Sound Trooper

Finally got to rolling the EL8 tubes into the GEL3N last night... and to be honest, it didn’t quite do it for me. My pair are kinda noisy and after an hour I gave up. In went the EL3Ns and all audio bliss is restored. 

After being smitten by the LCD-3 for a better part of 3 weeks, I’ve decided to give my Auteur a listen last night. And boy did I miss the Auteur, the overall tone is lighter and “airier” as compared to the LCD-3 and vocals (especially female vocals) are pleasingly lifelike and holographic. Looks like I’ll be going back to the Auteur more often.


----------



## leftside

Sound Trooper said:


> Finally got to rolling the EL8 tubes into the GEL3N last night... and to be honest, it didn’t quite do it for me. My pair are kinda noisy and after an hour I gave up. In went the EL3Ns and all audio bliss is restored.
> 
> After being smitten by the LCD-3 for a better part of 3 weeks, I’ve decided to give my Auteur a listen last night. And boy did I miss the Auteur, the overall tone is lighter and “airier” as compared to the LCD-3 and vocals (especially female vocals) are pleasingly lifelike and holographic. Looks like I’ll be going back to the Auteur more often.


Exact opposite happened to me. I had the Auteur for 3 weeks and wasn't a fan of the lighter sound, and was very happy to go back to the LCD-3. But, the 300B amp is very airy, spacious and neutral already. Another reason why I love this hobby - so many different combos of gear, different interpretations and different music tastes. As long as we all enjoy these fabulous listening experiences then it's all good.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I will try them this weekend haven't had the time.
> I am interested in the FDD20 maybe a new sound for me.



Yeah try the EL11 to c3g and EL3N to c3g adapters too. Don't think you've tried those before. I send you the Telefunken EL13 but didn't send the EL11. Can't pack too many tubes.


----------



## Sound Trooper

leftside said:


> Exact opposite happened to me. I had the Auteur for 3 weeks and wasn't a fan of the lighter sound, and was very happy to go back to the LCD-3. But, the 300B amp is very airy, spacious and neutral already. Another reason why I love this hobby - so many different combos of gear, different interpretations and different music tastes. As long as we all enjoy these fabulous listening experiences then it's all good.



I do agree on the differing taste and the ability to mix and match components for a desired sound and mood makes head-if more appealing to me over normal hifi. I love both LCD-3 and Auteur (and for that matter all my other headphones ) and the GEL3N sounds adds to the musical enjoyment immensely. Kudos to @2359glenn for building such fine amps!


----------



## mordy

Sound Trooper said:


> Finally got to rolling the EL8 tubes into the GEL3N last night... and to be honest, it didn’t quite do it for me. My pair are kinda noisy and after an hour I gave up. In went the EL3Ns and all audio bliss is restored.
> 
> After being smitten by the LCD-3 for a better part of 3 weeks, I’ve decided to give my Auteur a listen last night. And boy did I miss the Auteur, the overall tone is lighter and “airier” as compared to the LCD-3 and vocals (especially female vocals) are pleasingly lifelike and holographic. Looks like I’ll be going back to the Auteur more often.


Hi Sound Trooper,
Both JV and myself experienced noisy EL8 tubes. Maybe this will help:
The tube bases seem to be loose. If you hold the glass and you are able to wiggle the base, then you know that the base is loose.
Just put the tube and base together in what seems a natural position, apply a little crazy glue (easiest with the type that comes with a brush in the cap - made by Elmers Glue [$3 in Walmart]), hold it together for 60 seconds, and let it dry overnight.
This cured the noise problem for both of us.  (JV used epoxy)


----------



## Sound Trooper

mordy said:


> Hi Sound Trooper,
> Both JV and myself experienced noisy EL8 tubes. Maybe this will help:
> The tube bases seem to be loose. If you hold the glass and you are able to wiggle the base, then you know that the base is loose.
> Just put the tube and base together in what seems a natural position, apply a little crazy glue (easiest with the type that comes with a brush in the cap - made by Elmers Glue [$3 in Walmart]), hold it together for 60 seconds, and let it dry overnight.
> This cured the noise problem for both of us.  (JV used epoxy)



Thanks mordy, I’ll give your method a try.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> @2359glenn I've changed my mind on my favorite combination for the Verite. The headphone can sound dark compared to all of Zach's other offerings. Pair it up with a Tung-Sol (BGRP or Mouse Ears) and whichever drivers you'd like and voila!
> 
> It looks like the Tung-Sol's top end sparkle pushes through the dark aspect of the headphone and makes it shine. Let us know what you think when you get it in.



Interesting. Im diving into rolling much more than I wanted to or anticipated doing for the Verite.
Like mentioned above,the EL8s that I have are a bit noisy,so im experimenting with various combos. Trying to balance the bass,warmth,staging and 3D qualities of the Verite is a challenge.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Interesting. Im diving into rolling much more than I wanted to or anticipated doing for the Verite.
> Like mentioned above,the EL8s that I have are a bit noisy,so im experimenting with various combos. Trying to balance the bass,warmth,staging and 3D qualities of the Verite is a challenge.



I can't agree enough!

The Verite takes a little more effort to dial it in with tubes than the Auteurs. I feel that tubes that are brighter work well with it and also a tube with a mid-foward sound. The Verite pads help make it brighter but it removes the holographic staging the Universe pads add. Tung Sol variants work well with the headphone because of the added brightness compared to most tube and its holographic staging. It does bring a bit more bass with that treble extension. 

I rolled a few power tubes yesterday and surprisingly I really enjoyed the Svetlana 6H13C power tubes with the Verite. I'm going to give the c3gs and 6H13Cs a try later today and see how well they do.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> The Verite pads help make it brighter but it removes the holographic staging the Universe pads add.



Yeah,the Verite pads are a no-go for me for the loss of that holographic imaging.


----------



## whirlwind

Seems like the Verite is much more picky with tubes than any of the other  ZMF headphones.  I have not heard the Verite , this is just my take from the few here that have the combo, and what they are reporting.

How is this headphone with your SS amps?

Very interested in hearing what you think of this headphone with the EL3N amp Glenn.

In the mean time I am enjoying the LCD 3 pf with the EL3N amp...synergy and PRaT in spades!


----------



## Monsterzero

I dont know if the word "picky" is correct. More like with certain tubes the Verite shows certain attributes that are great,but then it adds something/takes something away that is undesired.
For example the GZ32+RCA6080+C3G have amazing 3D imaging and strong bass,but then it sounds very distant and overly warm,which I do not prefer.
With other olls,the sound become less distant,but loses too much bass and/or 3D imaging.

For me its trying to find the best of all worlds...but it doesnt sound bad with any roll ive tried. I just know it can sound better.


----------



## leftside

I'd love to try the Verite with the 300B. From what you guys are describing, I think they would be a great match. The ZMF headphones are beautifully made.

Tube rolling with amps and headphones to find the sound signature you like the best is all part of the fun


----------



## attmci (Feb 10, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Seems like the Verite is much more picky with tubes than any of the other  ZMF headphones.  I have not heard the Verite , this is just my take from the few here that have the combo, and what they are reporting.
> 
> How is this headphone with your SS amps?
> 
> ...



I always curious why you prefer LCD-3 to LCD-3F.
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/audeze-lcd-x-fazor-and-fresh-listen-current-lcd-2-and-lcd-3

Seems you had upgraded the headband and the the stock cable.

Can GOTL drive LCD-3?

The other thing I wonder is have you tried to use I2S to your KTE Holo Spring Level 3? I prefer the Ethernet to the USB input on a different DAC. It provides little bit sq improvement. And, no, I don't have $1000 usb cables.


----------



## heliosphann

whirlwind said:


> Seems like the Verite is much more picky with tubes than any of the other  ZMF headphones.  I have not heard the Verite , this is just my take from the few here that have the combo, and what they are reporting.
> 
> How is this headphone with your SS amps?
> 
> ...



Hey, them some good looking pre-fazor LCD-3's...


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> Hey, them some good looking pre-fazor LCD-3's...


hey! How'd you get into this thread?


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I was just using a new pair oft Brimar 6080 and my new C3G's which seem to be very quiet and after warm up was listening to my Verite and I had a arc inside a tube so I powered down. 

The question is should I power it back up without a headphone in and let run longer or is the that tube toast ? 

New to this whole tube thing.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> hey! How'd you get into this thread?



We're slowly turning him to the dark side.

**Waves hand* *
You'll buy a GOTL
Helios: I'll buy a GOTL...
**Waves hand* *
You'll roll tubes
Helios: I'll roll tubes...
**Waves hand**
Glenn is your new emperor!
Helios: Glenn is my new emperor...


----------



## Phantaminum

FunctionalDoc said:


> I was just using a new pair oft Brimar 6080 and my new C3G's which seem to be very quiet and after warm up was listening to my Verite and I had a arc inside a tube so I powered down.
> 
> The question is should I power it back up without a headphone in and let run longer or is the that tube toast ?
> 
> New to this whole tube thing.



Be very careful with the Verite and tubes. I had to send in my Verite for repair when a tube popped and the right driver stopped working. I'd suggest running a tube for 5 - 10 minutes with nothing plugged in, then use a much cheaper headphone to test for pops/crackles/issues. I use my HD650 for this specifically.


----------



## Monsterzero (Feb 10, 2019)

FunctionalDoc said:


> I was just using a new pair oft Brimar 6080 and my new C3G's which seem to be very quiet and after warm up was listening to my Verite and I had a arc inside a tube so I powered down.
> 
> The question is should I power it back up without a headphone in and let run longer or is the that tube toast ?
> 
> New to this whole tube thing.



Luckily I havent experienced anything like that yet,but per Zach,prior to powering down an amp,lower amp to zero volume,remove headphone,then power down.
Hopefully you didnt damage your new amp or ZMFs.

I would also suggest allowing some time for the tubes to warm up prior to listening. I usually let it go for at least 20 minutes,which might be excessive.

And yes I keep my K340s around for testing prior to inserting my more expensive headphones in.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Seems like the Verite is much more picky with tubes than any of the other  ZMF headphones.  I have not heard the Verite , this is just my take from the few here that have the combo, and what they are reporting.
> 
> How is this headphone with your SS amps?
> 
> ...



I do not have a Verite to lrt you know.
Pretty much anything you plug into the EL3N amp sounds good.


----------



## 2359glenn

FunctionalDoc said:


> I was just using a new pair oft Brimar 6080 and my new C3G's which seem to be very quiet and after warm up was listening to my Verite and I had a arc inside a tube so I powered down.
> 
> The question is should I power it back up without a headphone in and let run longer or is the that tube toast ?
> 
> New to this whole tube thing.



I would try to leave it on for awhile with no phones plugged in and make sure no more arcing. Or just try different output tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Did repair UT's amp today it has bad plate resistors for the driver.  Not sure if the resistors got damaged by using large output tubes for drivers or they are just crap.
The resistors were Amtrans AMRG these are supposed to be high quality.  Obviously crap they don't look like hey got overheated. 
I normally don't use Audiophile parts due to they are unreliable don't really know why I used these. Thought they would improve the sound.
Now have a bag full of expensive resistors that I will never use again.
If I ever get a parts failure I never use that brand part again.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> Did repair UT's amp today it has bad plate resistors for the driver.  Not sure if the resistors got damaged by using large output tubes for drivers or they are just crap.
> The resistors were Amtrans AMRG these are supposed to be high quality.  Obviously crap they don't look like hey got overheated.
> I normally don't use Audiophile parts due to they are unreliable don't really know why I used these. Thought they would improve the sound.
> Now have a bag full of expensive resistors that I will never use again.
> If I ever get a parts failure I never use that brand part again.



All the driver sockets, or just one? Assuming one.
Pity the amp had to travel all that distance for a resistor. 
Thinking UT will be VERY happy to get the GOTL home again!


----------



## Sound Trooper

How has your weekend been? Good I supposed?

I have just spent a wonderful weekend at home listening to the GEL3N driving my collection of headphones and I couldn't be happier. ZMF's Auteur has that airy and smooth signature which makes vocals and instruments haunting realistic. The Abyss AB-1266 phi is the big show-off of the bunch. It has that bad-ass bass and sub-bass performance while highs are very well resolved. It is truly a visceral experience and with the right music and recording, the Abyss makes you feel like you are actually there in a rock concert. Audeze's LCD-3F is my pick if I just want to relax and listen to music. It is very musical, sounds wonderful with all genres and with those pillowy plush earpads and that much improved suspension headband, makes the LCD-3F very comfortable and pleasing to listen to for long hours. And then there is the HD6XX (or HD650 in disguise), it scales wonderfully with the GEL3N with much of the veil lifted. The sound is smooth yet dynamic and while the sound stage is not the biggest, I feel that it is much more accurate. The HD6XX is also a really comfortable headphone to wear for extended as it has so little weight and the clamping force is just nice for me. 

With the wide variety of music I listen to and the different headphones that I own, I still cannot find anything sounding bad with the GEL3N. It is truly a very versatile amp and sounds amazingly well right out of the box (hey! no tube rolling here!. Except maybe rectifier tubes ).


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> hey! How'd you get into this thread?



Someone told me the secret password.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

How long would you let  a new set of tubes burn before saying there safe or stable? Not seen any arcs in 40 minutes.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Any good tube configurations that work on the Aeon's closed. I have the 3CG sockets and hexafred configuration? 

Thanks


----------



## 2359glenn

FunctionalDoc said:


> How long would you let  a new set of tubes burn before saying there safe or stable? Not seen any arcs in 40 minutes.





FunctionalDoc said:


> Any good tube configurations that work on the Aeon's closed. I have the 3CG sockets and hexafred configuration?
> 
> Thanks



Have you tried the tubes that arced again?


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Feb 10, 2019)

Yes I had them on again Brimar 6080 NOS stock and it was the left tube and have not seen arc since. I not plugged a headphone in yet. The amp with those tubes have now been on 1 hour with no arcing.


----------



## Phantaminum

FunctionalDoc said:


> Any good tube configurations that work on the Aeon's closed. I have the 3CG sockets and hexafred configuration?
> 
> Thanks



I have the Aeon Open Flow and it works great with the Chatham 6336Bs power them and throw in your favorite driver. The 6336s really surprised me at how well they could run planars.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Phantaminum said:


> I have the Aeon Open Flow and it works great with the Chatham 6336Bs power them and throw in your favorite driver. The 6336s really surprised me at how well they could run planars.


13d or would the C3g's work better ?


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Did repair UT's amp today it has bad plate resistors for the driver.  Not sure if the resistors got damaged by using large output tubes for drivers or they are just crap.
> The resistors were Amtrans AMRG these are supposed to be high quality.  Obviously crap they don't look like hey got overheated.
> I normally don't use Audiophile parts due to they are unreliable don't really know why I used these. Thought they would improve the sound.
> Now have a bag full of expensive resistors that I will never use again.
> If I ever get a parts failure I never use that brand part again.


Hi Glenn,
When you say driver I assume that you mean the 6SN7 socket. Is it possible that using 0.9A EL tubes in the front position puts more stress on the amp than putting them in the C3g sockets?


----------



## Phantaminum

FunctionalDoc said:


> 13d or would the C3g's work better ?



I can't say since I don't know your sound preference. Also, I'm using the open variant of the headphone so it could be a totally different sound signature that what you're hearing. I will say that my favorite combination with the AFOs are the Philips FDD20s + 6336Bs. They make those headphones sound powerful and wide.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Phantaminum said:


> I can't say since I don't know your sound preference. Also, I'm using the open variant of the headphone so it could be a totally different sound signature that what you're hearing. I will say that my favorite combination with the AFOs are the Philips FDD20s + 6336Bs. They make those headphones sound powerful and wide.



MonsterZero said the 6636B's are really good with the C3G's and the Verite so I am going get a pair of those and will try them with my Aeon's . 
Thanks


----------



## Phantaminum

FunctionalDoc said:


> MonsterZero said the 6636B's are really good with the C3G's and the Verite so I am going get a pair of those and will try them with my Aeon's .
> Thanks



That's a great combination to start off with. The 6336Bs for power and throw in some C3Gs, you can't really go wrong. The C3Gs are very tight, articulate, and fast tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn I assume you will also check the c3g sockets too because I have the ‘crackles’ problem when using 6sn7 or c3g as drivers.

So glad you’re looking at my amp now.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> When you say driver I assume that you mean the 6SN7 socket. Is it possible that using 0.9A EL tubes in the front position puts more stress on the amp than putting them in the C3g sockets?



No the .9 amp is just for the heater.

The resistors are for the plates of both the SN7 and C3g sockets.
I think the resistors are just crap and what worries me is there is a bunch of amps with them in them.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> No the .9 amp is just for the heater.
> 
> The resistors are for the plates of both the SN7 and C3g sockets.
> I think the resistors are just crap and what worries me is there is a bunch of amps with them in them.


Don't worry about it. Resistors are easy to replace.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn I assume you will also check the c3g sockets too because I have the ‘crackles’ problem when using 6sn7 or c3g as drivers.
> 
> So glad you’re looking at my amp now.



The same resistor goes to both sockets SN7 and C3g so it will affect both sockets.
I put in 5 watt resistors so you can use any tubes in those sockets.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Don't worry about it. Resistors are easy to replace.



Not for everyone.


----------



## Monsterzero

FunctionalDoc said:


> Any good tube configurations that work on the Aeon's closed. I have the 3CG sockets and hexafred configuration?
> 
> Thanks





FunctionalDoc said:


> MonsterZero said the 6636B's are really good with the C3G's and the Verite so I am going get a pair of those and will try them with my Aeon's .
> Thanks



When I reviewed the AFC,I found their tone to be phenomenal,but felt they lacked slam and texture. I have read that the AFO has more bass,but I havent heard them to confirm.
I would think a 6 pack of 6BX7s might add more punch than the 6336s.


----------



## Monsterzero

I rolled in a TS 6SN7 round plate,with the Mullard GZ32 and the RCA 6080s
The mids are quite distant,but the sub bass is super tight and prominent,and this combo is providing the most holographic stage ive heard yet.

Its a very laid back but entrancing combo with the Verite.


----------



## leftside

Tried out the NOS Valvo EL8 this evening with the 300B. The left channel crackled a bit on start up, so I left them for 10 mins with headphones unplugged and then they were fine.

Once settled down, and without music playing, these EL8s have a complete black background - even at max volume on the preamp. The C3g's are a little noisier, but you won't notice when music is playing even with the quiet pieces between songs.

The C3g's are more powerful. Bass is stronger.

EL8's appears to have a slightly wider soundstage. Bass is fine if you are listening to bass heavy music, or want your music to sound just a little lighter for that music listening session.

The EL8's are NOS, so I'll leave them in a while longer and see if there are any changes.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> All the driver sockets, or just one? Assuming one.
> Pity the amp had to travel all that distance for a resistor.
> Thinking UT will be VERY happy to get the GOTL home again!



I have missed the GOTL a lot. Would love to hear Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6bx7gt again.


----------



## Monsterzero

Dumb Question of the Day:
Is the Sylvania Bad Boy really that good,and if so is there a 12 or 25v version that sounds the same?


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 11, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Dumb Question of the Day:
> Is the Sylvania Bad Boy really that good,and if so is there a 12 or 25v version that sounds the same?



There are 6 and 12 volt bad boys, I have never seen a 25 volt.

Look for 1951-1953 dates and the construction like this.....3 holes in the plates with the flashing at the bottom and a mica like this.

This is a 12 volt Sylvania bad boy and if you are lucky you can find one for a nice deal by looking for this construction and dates....good luck


Mica has three points coming down from both sides.



3 holes in the plates


silver color from flashing at bottom of tube

Seems they were all made in 1951, 52,53

There are older GT tubes with two holes that sound good also....never compared them to the bad boys.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 11, 2019)

attmci said:


> I always curious why you prefer LCD-3 to LCD-3F.
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/audeze-lcd-x-fazor-and-fresh-listen-current-lcd-2-and-lcd-3
> 
> Seems you had upgraded the headband and the the stock cable.
> ...



I think I would have also liked the fazor version of the LCD 3...I just did not want to give up any of the wonderful planar bass for a little more air up top if I did not have to, that
is why I looked for a pre-fazor version. Fot the music that I listen to 90% of the time, I prefer the bass as to more air or treble....just a personal preference really.
I am sure I would have been happy with either version.

Yes, I bought the suspension headband on the suggestion from @Sound Trooper and I must say it is much more comfortable and the fit is much better, better placement of the earpads on my head.

I am sure the GOTL can drive the LCD 3, but I have not tried that combo as of yet.  I have just been enjoying the music 

It is on my "to do list" to try the Spring with the I2S connection, I just have not got around to buying a Singwer SU-1 to try it....plus I have had zero problems with any dropouts on the dac.
I have never had any issues what  so ever with this dac, it never leaves NOS mode, lol. I sort of set it and forget it and it just sort of disappears.
For the most part I am still a bit skeptical of adding something else to the chain that I am not sure I need...maybe ignorance is bliss for me at this point 
I find the USB connection quite good and the dac is a huge step up from my previous one...I really never even think about dac's anymore.




QUOTE="2359glenn, post: 14771750, member: 158007"]I do not have a Verite to lrt you know.
Pretty much anything you plug into the EL3N amp sounds good.[/QUOTE]

 Yes, that has been the case for me also...was just thinking maybe the Verite does not prefer tubes as much as Zach's other offerings....but I am sure that is just my stupid thinking
and that is really not the case at all.....would love to hear your comments if and when you get to hear this combo.





heliosphann said:


> Hey, them some good looking pre-fazor LCD-3's...



Ha!  Thanks, I am quite sure you owned these at one time 
I am thinking about selling my HD800 at this point as it is just not getting the head time that it deserves.....I seem to grab for any of my other headphones first and I do not listen to any classical music, I just replaced the headband and pads on it also...looks and sounds new.
Thinking Eikon or Auteur would be more for me.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I have missed the GOTL a lot. Would love to hear Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6bx7gt again.



Good to know the problem is solved. I would also miss not having the GOTL for any length of time.


----------



## Monsterzero (Feb 11, 2019)

I know that some members like Jazz and UT have mixed and matched power tubes to varying degrees of success,and I know UT had his amp go belly-up as well. 

Last night when I was rolling the RCA6080s I really was enjoying the sound,but with such a low gain factor I had the amp up to between 1 and 2 on the volume,which I didnt enjoy doing.

The only power tubes I currently own are the 6080s,6336b and the 6BX7s. If I were to add a pair of the 6BX7s to the 6080s,paired with a standard rectifier(or HEXFRED) and a 6N7 or C3G,will that trip over the 13 threshhold? Im guessing this cannot be done with the 6336b?

I recall this was addressed awhile back but I cant find the specific post.

Edit: found the post.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1638#post-14733746

Just looking for a little more volume.


----------



## mordy (Feb 11, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I know that some members like Jazz and UT have mixed and matched power tubes to varying degrees of success,and I know UT had his amp go belly-up as well.
> 
> Last night when I was rolling the RCA6080s I really was enjoying the sound,but with such a low gain factor I had the amp up to between 1 and 2 on the volume,which I didnt enjoy doing.
> 
> ...


Hi M0,
Here are the values - you have to do the math:
6080 2.5A
6336  5A
6BX7 1.5A
6SN7 0.6A
C3g   0.4A
Re UT's problem it has not been clarified if the deficient resistor was overloaded or came from a defective batch. It appears to me that it is the latter since Glenn stated that there were no signs of overheating. However, the above is just a guess and for the final conclusion we have to ask Glenn.
I am also curious if there is an incompatibility with the EL32 tubes since I (and others) experienced pops and crackles with this tube.


----------



## rnros (Feb 11, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I know that some members like Jazz and UT have mixed and matched power tubes to varying degrees of success,and I know UT had his amp go belly-up as well.
> 
> Last night when I was rolling the RCA6080s I really was enjoying the sound,but with such a low gain factor I had the amp up to between 1 and 2 on the volume,which I didnt enjoy doing.
> 
> ...



With a rectifier having a 3A heater, you will be under the recommended 13A @ 130F for the trans.
Pair of 6BX7 adds another 3A to the approx. 8.6A to 8.8A for the rectifier/6080s/6N7 or C3g.
Nothing bad about the volume pot at 1 to 2, just putting less attenuation on the incoming signal.
Some would think less resistance is better.

No, would not do that with the 6336Bs, which are already 10A for the pair.


----------



## Monsterzero

Thanks guys. Is there a link that has these ratings that I can bookmark,so I can stop asking the same question everytime I want to roll a new tube?


----------



## leftside

[QUOTE="Monsterzero, post: 14772829, member: 374428"
Just looking for a little more volume.[/QUOTE]
Can you use the volume control on your receiver/preamp? I wouldn't worry too much about cranking the volume (gain) on the amp. With amps that have gain controls, the manufacturers often recommend to use the max gain setting (well they do with Mac amps) and control the volume with a preamp. 

Glenn has stated on here before that setting the gain to the max on his amps is fine. I tend to leave mine at the 2 o clock position (where 5-6 would be the max) and use the preamp for the volume control. The preamp rarely goes past 50 (out of 100). I had it up to 52 last night with the lower powered E8's, but that was still very loud coming through the hard to drive LCD-4.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Can you use the volume control on your receiver/preamp?



I do not have a preamp and run my receivers parallel to my GOTL. My DAC has a fixed output,and use my source at 100%,so all volume control is done at the amp. I guess if cranking the GOTL isnt doing any harm thats fine,but I would still like to have a table of reference to bookmark.

The Verite responds in various ways to tube rolling more than any other headphone Ive owned,which has led me down a rabbit hole,which I'd like to illuminate a bit better. Not to mention im sure Ken is getting tired of me asking him "is it safe" with every single tube I consider purchasing.


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> I do not have a preamp and run my receivers parallel to my GOTL. My DAC has a fixed output,and use my source at 100%,so all volume control is done at the amp. I guess if cranking the GOTL isnt doing any harm thats fine,but I would still like to have a table of reference to bookmark.
> 
> The Verite responds in various ways to tube rolling more than any other headphone Ive owned,which has led me down a rabbit hole,which I'd like to illuminate a bit better. Not to mention im sure Ken is getting tired of me asking him "is it safe" with every single tube I consider purchasing.



Don't think anyone has posted a list of all the possible tubes with reference to the heater requirements. 
Just look at the spec sheet for the tube in question, heater voltage and amps always listed at the top of first page.
Easy to put together your own list. Various sources for the spec sheets. This one is very common:
https://frank.pocnet.net/

Or you could get the info from the various tube pages on radiomuseum.org, such as:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6080.html


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> I rolled in a TS 6SN7 round plate,with the Mullard GZ32 and the RCA 6080s
> The mids are quite distant,but the sub bass is super tight and prominent,and this combo is providing the most holographic stage ive heard yet.
> 
> Its a very laid back but entrancing combo with the Verite.



Hey MZ,

How much time do you have on the TS? I ask because the TS are some of the brighter tubes in my inventory compared to the Sylvanias, National Union, and a few others but around the same as the Raytheons. They take a bit to open up and sound muffled at first. 

The RCA power tubes are definitely on the warm/romantic side of things. Not sure about the rectifier. 

A cheap driver that’s on the brighter side are the Melz 6n8s. They have great treble extensional and mids but lack a bit on the low end. 

I wonder how the TS and 6336s would sound on the Verite?

I’m glad you’re on the Verite tube rolling journey with me. Most of my tubes were meant to tone down the treble on the Auteurs. Which is the opposite of what I want to accomplish with the Verite.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I do not have a preamp and run my receivers parallel to my GOTL. My DAC has a fixed output,and use my source at 100%,so all volume control is done at the amp. I guess if cranking the GOTL isnt doing any harm thats fine,but I would still like to have a table of reference to bookmark.
> 
> The Verite responds in various ways to tube rolling more than any other headphone Ive owned,which has led me down a rabbit hole,which I'd like to illuminate a bit better. Not to mention im sure Ken is getting tired of me asking him "is it safe" with every single tube I consider purchasing.



Just turn it all the way up no problem as long as there is no distortion. And that won't heart anything but maybe your ears who
wants to listen to a amp clipping. 
I don't think you can get it to clip with the headphones still on your head.
Lower gain tubes just need the volume turned up more.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I have missed the GOTL a lot. Would love to hear Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6bx7gt again.



UT, did you get the Yamamoto sockets


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Most of my tubes were meant to tone down the treble on the Auteurs. Which is the opposite of what I want to accomplish with the Verite.



Yeah,the Verite is a bit counter intuitive to me. Typically brighter headphones have better 3d imaging and width in the staging,but with the brighter pads on the Verite,it lessens both imaging and staging. Same goes for the tubes. Warmer the tubes it seems to improve the staging and imaging.


ideally im looking for brighter tubes that doesnt lessen the other aspects,but thus far no luck. I have the silk wood version incoming to a/b with my pheasantwood. If memory serves me correctly,the silk arent as dark and have better imaging....dont quote me on that.


----------



## 2359glenn (Feb 11, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> UT, did you get the Yamamoto sockets



No to much money.
Not that bad for the EL3N amp but crazy money for the OTL.
I am not sure that the sockets are even bad


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,the Verite is a bit counter intuitive to me. Typically brighter headphones have better 3d imaging and width in the staging,but with the brighter pads on the Verite,it lessens both imaging and staging. Same goes for the tubes. Warmer the tubes it seems to improve the staging and imaging.
> 
> 
> ideally im looking for brighter tubes that doesnt lessen the other aspects,but thus far no luck. I have the silk wood version incoming to a/b with my pheasantwood. If memory serves me correctly,the silk arent as dark and have better imaging....dont quote me on that.



I’ve been meaning to pad roll the Verite with the Eikon perforated and Auteur perforated pads. The Auteur pads give the Auteur a wider and holographic stage but with an overall added brightness. I’ll report back if there’s any noticeable changes.

Let us know your thoughts on the Silk vs Pheasant wood.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> No to much money.
> Not that bad for the EL3N amp but crazy money for the OTL.
> I am not sure that the sockets are eve bad



Yeah, it is a lot of money to put Yamamotos sockets in an OTL amp....somewhere around $700 I think you quoted me....but the way UT rolls tubes, I thought he might have sprung for them  

Very much worth it in the EL3N amp, actually they are a must.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,the Verite is a bit counter intuitive to me. Typically brighter headphones have better 3d imaging and width in the staging,but with the brighter pads on the Verite,it lessens both imaging and staging. Same goes for the tubes. Warmer the tubes it seems to improve the staging and imaging.
> 
> 
> ideally im looking for brighter tubes that doesnt lessen the other aspects,but thus far no luck. I have the silk wood version incoming to a/b with my pheasantwood. If memory serves me correctly,the silk arent as dark and have better imaging....dont quote me on that.



Did you try C3g with 6336 outputs?


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, it is a lot of money to put Yamamotos sockets in an OTL amp....somewhere around $700 I think you quoted me....but the way UT rolls tubes, I thought he might have sprung for them
> 
> Very much worth it in the EL3N amp, actually they are a must.



I think UT read somewhere that the Yamamotos sockets are not that good and not worth it.
I don't really know if they can hold up to tube rolling


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I think UT read somewhere that the Yamamotos sockets are not that good and not worth it.
> I don't really know if they can hold up to tube rolling



I think they are very good sockets, but I am not sure that they are worth it at about $60 per socket...that is pretty steep, so probably not worth it.
I will be sticking to your regular sockets as they work fine for me and I won't be rolling tubes everyday...more like every few weeks.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I think they are very good sockets, but I am not sure that they are worth it at about $60 per socket...that is pretty steep, so probably not worth it.
> I will be sticking to your regular sockets as they work fine for me and I won't be rolling tubes everyday...more like every few weeks.



Probably not worth it not for me but I really don't roll tubes that much.
But I keep going to the EL3N for driver in the OTL Just like the sound of that tube.
Thinking of going to side contact sockets so I don't have to use adapters.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve been meaning to pad roll the Verite with the Eikon perforated and Auteur perforated pads. The Auteur pads give the Auteur a wider and holographic stage but with an overall added brightness. I’ll report back if there’s any noticeable changes.
> 
> Let us know your thoughts on the Silk vs Pheasant wood.



Youve noticed a wider staging and better 3D w/ Verite pads? Thats opposite of what ive experienced. Def brighter,and better detail,but it lessens the holographic imaging for me.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Did you try C3g with 6336 outputs?



Yeah. It had less bass and less 3d imaging vs. RCA6080s


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Youve noticed a wider staging and better 3D w/ Verite pads? Thats opposite of what ive experienced. Def brighter,and better detail,but it lessens the holographic imaging for me.



The Verite pad makes it more neutral but reduces the holographic staging. Not willing to take that loss which is what really make these headphones great.

I mentioned that I’m going to try to roll the Auteur pads onto the Verite. Those pads gave the Auteur a wider and more of a holographic sound stage compared to the Eikon pads. But it came at the cost of brightness. I’m hoping they will do the same for the Verites and then I can use some of the more warmer tubes I have.


----------



## Monsterzero

Gotcha,now were on the same page. Let me know how it turns out.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> UT, did you get the Yamamoto sockets



No I decided $700 plus for Yamamoto sockets is over kill. You can buy a very nice rectifier for that. Besides I won’t be tube rolling like before.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I used the 2 Brimar 6080's with my Siemens C3G's and was good . I I also tried the 2 6H13 with the C3G's on Verite and Auteurs.

I going to try the 4 6H13's with 13d driver and see how that sounds .

Then last 4 Brimar 6080's with the 13d driver see.

I think I am going take @Monsterzero input and get a pair of Chatham 6336b's to use with my C3G's .

I will be waiting what magical combo @2359glenn  comes up with for his Verite.

I really did like the stock Glenn recommendation of the 13D and the 6BX7's on both the Verite and Auteur's.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I am using these 6h13's and this is showing up on 2 of the tubes without arcing so is this just the oil of fingertips on the tube? They have been on for 30 minutes so far.


----------



## Monsterzero

@2359glenn 

How well do you think a 32ohm planar w/ a 100 sensitivity would do thru the GOTL?
I have the Meze Empyrean incoming for a review and I certainly want to compare it to my ZMFs,but in order to do that I need to use the same amp(s)


----------



## 2359glenn

What is that  100DB per watt.
You best use the 6336 0utput tubes.

Starting to sound like you need the EL3N transformer coupled amp.  Can drive most anything.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,the Verite is a bit counter intuitive to me. Typically brighter headphones have better 3d imaging and width in the staging,but with the brighter pads on the Verite,it lessens both imaging and staging. Same goes for the tubes. Warmer the tubes it seems to improve the staging and imaging.
> 
> 
> ideally im looking for brighter tubes that doesnt lessen the other aspects,but thus far no luck. I have the silk wood version incoming to a/b with my pheasantwood. If memory serves me correctly,the silk arent as dark and have better imaging....dont quote me on that.



If you can find a good deal on a GEC B65 or B36 (the 12 volt version of the B65) it might be a good match for the Verite....


----------



## 2359glenn

FunctionalDoc said:


> I am using these 6h13's and this is showing up on 2 of the tubes without arcing so is this just the oil of fingertips on the tube? They have been on for 30 minutes so far.



No that is fine it is electrons that missed the plate hitting the glass.
Kinda looks cool at night.  In big tube amps it dances around the glass when turned up. But you would have to turn it up to loud for the phones to do this.
With speaker amps cranked up it dances to the music.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

2359glenn said:


> No that is fine it is electrons that missed the plate hitting the glass.
> Kinda looks cool at night.  In big tube amps it dances around the glass when turned up. But you would have to turn it up to loud for the phones to do this.
> With speaker amps cranked up it dances to the music.



Thanks .Loving this configuration with both my Verite and Auteur's 13d and  4 6H13's dead quiet and great soundstage  and mids are maintained .

Glen loving this beast.


----------



## 2359glenn

FunctionalDoc said:


> I used the 2 Brimar 6080's with my Siemens C3G's and was good . I I also tried the 2 6H13 with the C3G's on Verite and Auteurs.
> 
> I going to try the 4 6H13's with 13d driver and see how that sounds .
> 
> ...



Yes the 13D1 and 6BX7 sound good todether.
If you got money to burn try to find a pair of GEC6AS7s sound really good with the 13D1.
Right now listening to UTs amp FDD20 driving a pair of GEC6AS7s really like the sound with my Auteur.


----------



## 2359glenn

FunctionalDoc said:


> Thanks .Loving this configuration with both my Verite and Auteur's 13d and  4 6H13's dead quiet and great soundstage  and mids are maintained .
> 
> Glen loving this beast.



Great the 6H13s are only $6 each plus shipping from Russia shipping as much as the tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

FunctionalDoc said:


> Thanks .Loving this configuration with both my Verite and Auteur's 13d and  4 6H13's dead quiet and great soundstage  and mids are maintained .
> 
> Glen loving this beast.



Hey Doc it is a fun amp can make it sound anyway you want


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> What is that  100DB per watt.
> You best use the 6336 0utput tubes.
> 
> Starting to sound like you need the EL3N transformer coupled amp.  Can drive most anything.


I'm not buying the Meze, just on loan for review.
May I ask why you suggest the 6336b?


----------



## attmci (Feb 11, 2019)

gibosi said:


> If you can find a good deal on a GEC B65 or B36 (the 12 volt version of the B65) it might be a good match for the Verite....




https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B36-12SN...m=372366736396&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I'm not buying the Meze, just on loan for review.
> May I ask why you suggest the 6336b?



It will do the low impedance 32 ohms better then the other tubes.
Or use four 6AS7s or 6080s


----------



## 2359glenn

B36

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B36-GEC-...c:g:z3cAAOSwbF1aDEn0:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> If you can find a good deal on a GEC B65 or B36 (the 12 volt version of the B65) it might be a good match for the Verite....



The seller of that 4v rectifier you recommended to me accepted my offer,so im all tapped out for the month.
How will that match up with the B65?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes the 13D1 and 6BX7 sound good todether.
> If you got money to burn try to find a pair of GEC6AS7s sound really good with the 13D1.
> Right now listening to UTs amp FDD20 driving a pair of GEC6AS7s really like the sound with my Auteur.



So many tubes that sounds great on the OTL amp. I wish I did pack in the GEC b36 too but the box can only take that much.

Looking forward to your impressions of the other tubes I send.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> The seller of that 4v rectifier you recommended to me accepted my offer,so im all tapped out for the month.
> How will that match up with the B65?



In my opinion, that 4-volt rectifer has a sound signature very similar to the B65/B36. So I would advise holding off until you have had a chance to roll through your current drivers with that rectifier. And then, you will have a better understanding if adding more GEC "goodness" is desirable.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> The seller of that 4v rectifier you recommended to me accepted my offer,so im all tapped out for the month.
> How will that match up with the B65?


You may want to order 4 421A to go with it.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> You may want to order 4 421A to go with it.



So i look up the 421a...
Yeah...youre a funny guy!


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> So i look up the 421a...
> Yeah...youre a funny guy!



Just a over priced 5998


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Just a over priced 5998



But we all know... The more a tube costs the better it sounds. lol


----------



## leftside

Western Electric made the 421A's right up until the late 1980's. The construction looks just as good as their earlier versions, and remember TungSol no longer existed as a company by then. 

Even though we can debate whether a WE 421A sounds better (or worse) than a TS 5998, there is no denying that you have a better chance of obtaining a NOS 1980's or even 1970's WE 421A than you do a 1950's TS. I have sets of each, and this is a very rare example where the later year tubes sound as good (if not better - perhaps due to less usage) than the earlier tubes.

It appears genuine WE 421A's have bottom getters, whereas most TS 5998's have top getters. Though just to confuse matters - I've seen (and own) TS 5998's with bottom getters. @attmci also owns a pair, but they do appear to be quite rare. 

Without a doubt TS made 5998's that WE rebranded as 421A's when TS existed as a company, but from 1970's onwards these must have been genuine WE tubes, as previously mentioned - TS no longer existed as a company.

If any of the above is incorrect - please let me know - I won't take offence. Learning about tubes, the various manufacturers, various factories, various construction, etc has been a fascinating journey for me


----------



## attmci (Feb 11, 2019)

leftside said:


> Western Electric made the 421A's right up until the late 1980's. The construction looks just as good as their earlier versions, and remember TungSol no longer existed as a company by then.
> 
> Even though we can debate whether a WE 421A sounds better (or worse) than a TS 5998, there is no denying that you have a better chance of obtaining a NOS 1980's or even 1970's WE 421A than you do a 1950's TS. I have sets of each, and this is a very rare example where the later year tubes sound as good (if not better - perhaps due to less usage) than the earlier tubes.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Left. I was waiting for you. LOL

I had collected some nice pairs of clear-top 5998 (looks very similar to the 421A). And picked up a "NOS" 72 421A last Friday. I used these more than the GEC 6AS7G on *my AMP*. No kidding this time.

Guess which is clear-top 5998/421A??


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yeah for UT and his amp just needing the cathode resistor replaced!

MZ, sounds like you need to fire up a spreadsheet program and list out your tubes and their respective heater current draws. 

Keeping it simple here, lately...sticking to 6x 6BL7 and a quality SN7 driver...or “adapted to” the SN7 socket. Been pretty happy with 6SN7W, TS 12SN7 BGRP, FDD20, 1633’s/13D1, various Ken-Rads, ECC804 and 12AU7’s...

Love 6N7 in this amp too, but all mine hum with 6BL or BX7’s...have to switch to 6AS7G’s or 6080’s to enjoy 6N7 drivers...perfectly quiet with those powers...

Cheers


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> I had collected some nice pairs of clear-top 5998 (looks very similar to the 421A). And picked up a "NOS" 72 421A last Friday. I used these more than the GEC 6AS7G on *my AMP*. No kidding this time.


It's like a 1960's American Ford Mustang GT vs a British Aston Martin DB5


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> @2359glenn
> 
> How well do you think a 32ohm planar w/ a 100 sensitivity would do thru the GOTL?
> I have the Meze Empyrean incoming for a review and I certainly want to compare it to my ZMFs,but in order to do that I need to use the same amp(s)



Not sure you will be getting the most out of the Empyrean, but I hear it is pretty easy to drive so you should be fine with the right power tubes.
The OTL powers my Ori fine, that being said...the EL3N amp has better control over the drivers and it sounds better with the transformer coupled amp IMHO.

I think you will be surprised though....it should sound nice through OTL.  the Empyrean is one expensive set of cans!


----------



## JazzVinyl

7N7 in GOTL may be appproiate for Verite's, too.....


----------



## felix3650

2359glenn said:


> Probably not worth it not for me but I really don't roll tubes that much.
> But I keep going to the EL3N for driver in the OTL Just like the sound of that tube.
> Thinking of going to side contact sockets so I don't have to use adapters.


So my extra EL3N/EL8 socket option is still valid 
The GEL3N looks more delicious now!!


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> 7N7 in GOTL may be appproiate for Verite's, too.....



What are the sound properties of the 7N7?

Last night I rolled the EL8 and then the Tung-sol 6SU7GTY with RCA 6080 and GZ32. Both brought the mids more forward and added more treble,but once again the depth of the 3D imaging was sacrificed.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> What are the sound properties of the 7N7?
> 
> Last night I rolled the EL8 and then the Tung-sol 6SU7GTY with RCA 6080 and GZ32. Both brought the mids more forward and added more treble,but once again the depth of the 3D imaging was sacrificed.



They have great mids and treble but are a bit too thin in bass for my high imp Sennheisers.  

They are plenty and they are cheap, so recommend you try them with your exotic cone material Verite’s MZ...

You live in a very different world than me...never heard anyone talk about 3D imaging being so finicky before...so no promises with 7N7, but worth a try...


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> What are the sound properties of the 7N7?
> 
> Last night I rolled the EL8 and then the Tung-sol 6SU7GTY with RCA 6080 and GZ32. Both brought the mids more forward and added more treble,but once again the depth of the 3D imaging was sacrificed.



I’ll plug in my 7N7 and test it out with the Verite. On the Auteurs it has a lot of bass and sounds thick but it’s not fully burned in. Not sure if it settles down or stays the same. Reminds me of the Sylvania bad boy sound.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> I’ll plug in my 7N7 and test it out with the Verite. On the Auteurs it has a lot of bass and sounds thick but it’s not fully burned in. Not sure if it settles down or stays the same. Reminds me of the Sylvania bad boy sound.



Again, the vast majority of 7N7 were manufactured by Sylvanica. And the 7N7 is electrically identical to the 6SN7, the internal components and construction are substantially identical, and the sound is very similar.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> What are the sound properties of the 7N7?
> 
> Last night I rolled the EL8 and then the Tung-sol 6SU7GTY with RCA 6080 and GZ32. Both brought the mids more forward and added more treble,but once again the depth of the 3D imaging was sacrificed.



If you want more forward mids, then perhaps a Holland-made 6DJ8/ECC88 might be worth trying.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> If you want more forward mids, then perhaps a Holland-made 6DJ8/ECC88 might be worth trying.



That gives me a great idea.

I may need to try the Tungsram PCC88 tube in the GOTL. A brighter, mid-forward, sound, that has good thump and air. Definitely a great match with the Verites in the Liquid Platinum amp. The amp runs at 6.3v so that may change its sound sig in the LP compared to the GOTL which will run it at 7v. I read in another forum that the PCC88 sound changes when ran 6.3v compared to when it’s running at 7v. More testing to be done.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> That gives me a great idea.
> 
> I may need to try the Tungsram PCC88 tube in the GOTL. A brighter, mid-forward, sound, that has good thump and air. Definitely a great match with the Verites in the Liquid Platinum amp. The amp runs at 6.3v so that may change its sound sig in the LP compared to *the GOTL which will run it at 7v*. I read in another forum that the PCC88 sound changes when ran 6.3v compared to when it’s running at 7v. More testing to be done.



??? If I understand what you have written correctly,  then no, the GOTL will not run it at 7v....


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> ??? If I understand what you have written correctly,  then no, the GOTL will not run it at 7v....



Got you. I forgot that it only runs 6/12/25v.


----------



## dminches

I am thinking of selling my beloved Glenn 300B amp since I rarely listen to headphones anymore.  It should get more use.  I have 2 speaker systems which leaves the headphone amp idle.

The amp has PY-500 rectifiers, C3G drivers and 300B power tubes.  It has 2 unbalanced inputs and a very nice volume control.

Glenn built it so there isn't much more to say about it.

I will include several pairs of rectifiers, a pair of C3Gs and the Elrog 300Bs.  The Elrogs are newer production so they are much more reliable.  They probably have 100 hours on them at most.

Here's a picture of it:







If someone is interested in this please send me a PM and we can talk.


----------



## Monsterzero

dminches said:


> I am thinking of selling my beloved Glenn 300B amp since I rarely listen to headphones anymore.  It should get more use.  I have 2 speaker systems which leaves the headphone amp idle.
> 
> The amp has PY-500 rectifiers, C3G drivers and 300B power tubes.  It has 2 unbalanced inputs and a very nice volume control.
> 
> ...


Beautiful amp. gonna make someone very happy!

@2359glenn  these are more for use with planars? And these can drive speakers as well?


----------



## dminches

Glenn built it specifically to drive my low impedance LCD-3s.  I never used it to drive speakers.  8 watts.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Beautiful amp. gonna make someone very happy!
> 
> @2359glenn  these are more for use with planars? And these can drive speakers as well?



Yes I made some of them with 8 ohm speaker outputs.
That amp will drive any headphone and sounds great.


----------



## leftside

dminches said:


> Glenn built it specifically to drive my low impedance LCD-3s.  I never used it to drive speakers.  8 watts.


It also drives the harder to drive LCD-4 extremely well. GLWS. If I didn't already own one, you'd have my money by now.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 13, 2019)

dminches said:


> I am thinking of selling my beloved Glenn 300B amp since I rarely listen to headphones anymore.  It should get more use.  I have 2 speaker systems which leaves the headphone amp idle.
> 
> The amp has PY-500 rectifiers, C3G drivers and 300B power tubes.  It has 2 unbalanced inputs and a very nice volume control.
> 
> ...





GLWS.  Gorgeous amp.

I can only imagine what my ZMF Ori and LCD 3 would sound like on this amp.

They both sound great even out of the GOTL as I tried the LCD 3 last night using 5998 power tubes and Sylvania Bad Boy driver....sounded very nice.
Then I plugged into EL3N amp and they sounded even nicer...so I assume they would get another nice scale up using a 300B amp.

Thats a real beauty, man Glenns makes some wonderful looking amps.


----------



## dminches

I have a Glenn OTL too which I am keeping.


----------



## dminches

I would like to keep this "in the family" so to speak so here's what I am offering for sale:

1 - Glenn 300B amp.  I can provide any details needed but it was built for low impedance headphones and has driven any of them with ease.  The transformers are Lundahl.  The key caps are Duelund.  The entire amp is obvious custom, designed by Glenn.  I just picked out the pretty stuff including the bias meters.  I also had a lot of help from Xcalibur255.  No expense was spared in putting this all together.

2 - A pair of Elrog 300B.  I paid about $1,400 for these.  They have at most 100 hours on them.

3 - A pair of C3Gs.  

4 - Several pair of PY-500s.

I am asking $3,750 plus shipping for the package.  I would like to keep this in the CONUS.

If you are interested contact via PM and we can talk.  I can send whatever pictures you would like.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Feb 13, 2019)

I believe yours had the top of the line Duelund CAST coupling caps didn't it?  No expense spared pretty much sums it up.  Good luck with selling and I hope it find a loving new home.

I have to confess I'm a tiny bit tempted myself, but she's not quite the right fit for what I was planning to do next sadly.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Hey @dminches, sweet looking amp you got there! I reckon it will be gone in a flash.



whirlwind said:


> GLWS.  Gorgeous amp.
> 
> I can only imagine what my ZMF Ori and LCD 3 would sound like on this amp.
> 
> ...



Hey Joe, why not complete the collection? A 300B sitting next to a GOTL and GEL3N would be awesome!


----------



## dminches

Xcalibur255 said:


> I believe yours had the top of the line Duelund CAST coupling caps didn't it?  No expense spared pretty much sums it up.  Good luck with selling and I hope it find a loving new home.
> 
> I have to confess I'm a tiny bit tempted myself, but she's not quite the right fit for what I was planning to do next sadly.



That is correct on the caps.

You really helped me sort through all the case, meter and controls options.  Much appreciated.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey @dminches, sweet looking amp you got there! I reckon it will be gone in a flash.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Joe, why not complete the collection? A 300B sitting next to a GOTL and GEL3N would be awesome!




*NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!   My wife would kill me!!  I could not afford the tubes  
*


----------



## JazzVinyl

Love the one your with....


----------



## FunctionalDoc

JazzVinyl said:


> Love the one your with....


Is this  a good price ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/JAN-CHS-6S...=item443455edd6:g:bR8AAOSwHnJb~pFw:rk:18:pf:0


----------



## UntilThen

I don’t think that is a Sylvania 6sn7w even though it says it is. More like a 6sn7wgt brown base.


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Feb 13, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I don’t think that is a Sylvania 6sn7w even though it says it is. More like a 6sn7wgt brown base.



Know a good source for one ?

What about this version?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-6SN7W-...=item56bf65efaa:g:u2cAAOSwaRBbl0Ql:rk:10:pf:0


----------



## UntilThen

FunctionalDoc said:


> Know a good source for one ?
> 
> What about this version?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-6SN7W-...=item56bf65efaa:g:u2cAAOSwaRBbl0Ql:rk:10:pf:0



Langrex is selling 6sn7a nude base which is essentially a 6sn7w. Look it up on eBay I can’t link on my phone atm.


----------



## attmci (Feb 13, 2019)

FunctionalDoc said:


> Know a good source for one ?
> 
> What about this version?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-6SN7W-...=item56bf65efaa:g:u2cAAOSwaRBbl0Ql:rk:10:pf:0


Not sure. Hard to tell. Good luck!

But the seller has low rating, and the list is over 20-days old.


----------



## attmci

*CanJam NYC 2019*
*Any one?*


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> *CanJam NYC 2019
> Any one?*



I def want to go,but I need a few things to align perfectly for me to do so. Keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## mordy

FunctionalDoc said:


> Is this  a good price ?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/JAN-CHS-6S...=item443455edd6:g:bR8AAOSwHnJb~pFw:rk:18:pf:0


I bought a similar tube for around $28 shipped but labelled 6SN7GT - don't think that this is the same construction as the desirable 6SN7W tubes:





The ones you probably are looking for are these - most of them for sale seem to be from around 1945 with a US Navy anchor on them. $50 is a reasonable price for these, but IMHO not for the one you asked bout.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Actually the shorty W's are also a different tube with a different sound.  Sylvania had more variants than any other tube maker.  FWIW I had a pair of these and wasn't a huge fan of them, I found the tone less balanced sounding than the Bad Boys or the "true" chrome domes.  If a person were to like the particular frequency ranges it likes to spotlight the tube might be heaven for you though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I bought a similar tube for around $28 shipped but labelled 6SN7GT - don't think that this is the same construction as the desirable 6SN7W tubes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You would be danged lucky to get a good 6SN7W for $50.00 imho...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Was it ever determined that EL-1052 (EL32’s) are safe to use in C3G sockets in the GOTL?


----------



## gibosi (Feb 14, 2019)

While I have no experience with the EL32, it looks like it should be safe. The heater draws only 0.2amps, which is less than a C3g. And it appears that the designers actually anticipated that it might be strapped as a triode. That said, it is not clear to me at this time that it would be worth the extra time and expense to get yet another adapter. To date, I have seen nothing to convince me that it might be even as good as the EL3N, EL8 and EL11.

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/154/e/EL32.pdf

But unless Glenn sees a red flag, I hope someone will be adventurous enough to try a pair.


----------



## zach915m

I'll have the Glenn OTL at CanJam NYC this weekend! Will be my only tube amp as I like to pack a little lighter for the NYC show but I had to bring the Glenn!  Looking forward to seeing anyone who is there. 

Also Glenn I'll have your Verite done soon my man!


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> While I have no experience with the EL32, it looks like it should be safe. The heater draws only 0.2amps, which is less than a C3g. And it appears that the designers actually anticipated that it might be strapped as a triode. That said, it is not clear to me at this time that it would be worth the extra time and expense to get yet another adapter. To date, I have seen nothing to convince me that it might be even as good as the EL3N, EL8 and EL11.
> 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/154/e/EL32.pdf
> 
> But unless Glenn sees a red flag, I hope someone will be adventurous enough to try a pair.


I did try a pair with adapters from Mrs Xuling but had problems with loud popping sounds and discontinued using the Mullard EL32 tubes. Don't know if the problem was the adapters, tubes or both (or an incompatibility), but after blowing a T1 driver from another tube that made loud popping noises, I am afraid of such things.
The EL32 tubes look beautifully made and are very inexpensive and they perform very well in the Feliks amps, but they did not work for me in the GOTL.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> You would be danged lucky to get a good 6SN7W for $50.00 imho...


Hi JV,
A pair of 1945 6SN7W sold for less than $100 two days ago. I assume that the boxes pictured are not original.




https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-6...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
However, the tubes were not tested.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I did try a pair with adapters from Mrs Xuling but had problems with loud popping sounds and discontinued using the Mullard EL32 tubes. Don't know if the problem was the adapters, tubes or both (or an incompatibility), but after blowing a T1 driver from another tube that made loud popping noises, I am afraid of such things.
> The EL32 tubes look beautifully made and are very inexpensive and they perform very well in the Feliks amps, but they did not work for me in the GOTL.



Looking at the data sheets, I am inclined to think that the adapters are to blame. If you really want to use these in the Glenn, then I recommend that you ask Deyan to build a pair of adapters.


----------



## 2359glenn

zach915m said:


> I'll have the Glenn OTL at CanJam NYC this weekend! Will be my only tube amp as I like to pack a little lighter for the NYC show but I had to bring the Glenn!  Looking forward to seeing anyone who is there.
> 
> Also Glenn I'll have your Verite done soon my man!



Wow great
Hey Zach how do you feel about being a Guinea Pig?
I am building a new OTL using E130L output tubes thinking of sending it to you?


----------



## zach915m

2359glenn said:


> Wow great
> Hey Zach how do you feel about being a Guinea Pig?
> I am building a new OTL using E130L output tubes thinking of sending it to you?



Hey sure - maybe I can run a small US tour for it as well?  Whatever helps!?  Ofcourse I'd love to hear it!!!  I'll send you an email.

Will have a set of these in at the show - they work great with ZMF's - a touch brighter than my Amperex and Marconi 6080's, but well matched, quiet - and sound great on ZMF's.  Good price too boot!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Old-St...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> A pair of 1945 6SN7W sold for less than $100 two days ago. I assume that the boxes pictured are not original.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-6SN7-Pair-Of-Vacuum-Tubes-JAN-CHS-6SN7W-/113616615477?hash=item1a7413f835:g:xgYAAOSw2fRcWOkN&nma=true&si=pC%2BcpeA6VhPu6%2F8qiWP%2Fpiqa0W0%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> However, the tubes were not tested.



If they are quiet...someone got lucky!


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Looking at the data sheets, I am inclined to think that the adapters are to blame. If you really want to use these in the Glenn, then I recommend that you ask Deyan to build a pair of adapters.



I am using them as driver triplet along with the metal can Ken Rad 6N7 and a pair of 6H13C and it sounds really nice.

Confirmed the advantage, tried the 6N7 solo and the pair of CV-1052's solo...definitely like the triplet a lot better than either, solo.  Very 3D and holographic/engaging as a triplet.

I have the cheap China adaptors...

Used for a few hours last night, no pops, no problems.

Plan to listen with this combo, again tonight.

I have a feeling that the previously experienced problem, was using them with 6x 6BL or BX7's...

If I blow out my Cathode resistor, I know to replace it....


----------



## UntilThen

My EL32 and adapters from China are with Glenn. He will have a look at it.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

zach915m said:


> Hey sure - maybe I can run a small US tour for it as well?  Whatever helps!?  Ofcourse I'd love to hear it!!!  I'll send you an email.
> 
> Will have a set of these in at the show - they work great with ZMF's - a touch brighter than my Amperex and Marconi 6080's, but well matched, quiet - and sound great on ZMF's.  Good price too boot!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Old-Stock-Pair-Philips-ECG-JAN-6080WC-Ham-Radio-Amplifier-Tube-NIB/291053696361?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



How do these compare to the Brimar 6080's I have ?


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


>


US - British - Russian cooperation - I think that there is advice here for our politicians.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> US - British - Russian cooperation - I think that there is advice here for our politicians.....



Indeed!!


----------



## attmci

JazzVinyl said:


> I am using them as driver triplet along with the metal can Ken Rad 6N7 and a pair of 6H13C and it sounds really nice.
> 
> Confirmed the advantage, tried the 6N7 solo and the pair of CV-1052's solo...definitely like the triplet a lot better than either, solo.  Very 3D and holographic/engaging as a triplet.
> 
> ...


Could be the driver of your headphone first.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> Could be the driver of your headphone first.



I too had some very loud pops, on the 2nd or 3rd day of use, when I used them previously...difference is the six pack of 6BL7's versus the 6H13C's...

Not proclaiming "victory" yet...but so far, so good.


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> The CBS tube is from the 44th week (Nov) 1958. Is there any three digit code on the tube?
> "CBS Hytron was a very high quality USA tube manufacturer. Their production numbers were much smaller than the big name brands (RCA, Sylvania, GE).
> The CBS Hytron construction is easy to identify: Clear Top design, Black Plates, the famous hole in the plastic key pin, getter shaped like a `square D`. Vintage is 1950s. Often you will find the 210 factory code, but not always."
> 
> The CBS Hytron (EIA) code number is “210”.


Hi Wildcats1,
Just double checked my "hand" thermometer - it felt warm. Checked with my infrared thermometer - 113F.
Turned on the 4" fan drawing away air from the amp (mounted underneath the shelf above the amp). After 20 minutes the temperature of the transformer dropped 20 degrees.
Hand temp now barely warm; infrared 92F.
The infrared thermometer has a laser dot that you can aim at what you want to measure. The red dot is hitting the transformer housing:



The only drawback with the hand temp method is that you have to be careful not to touch the furnaces in the 5998 tubes in the back - 226F!


----------



## 2359glenn

zach915m said:


> Hey sure - maybe I can run a small US tour for it as well?  Whatever helps!?  Ofcourse I'd love to hear it!!!  I'll send you an email.
> 
> Will have a set of these in at the show - they work great with ZMF's - a touch brighter than my Amperex and Marconi 6080's, but well matched, quiet - and sound great on ZMF's.  Good price too boot!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Old-Stock-Pair-Philips-ECG-JAN-6080WC-Ham-Radio-Amplifier-Tube-NIB/291053696361?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Yes that is a good price.
It will probably be a month before I have the prototype built have to finish peoples amps first.


----------



## mordy

It never ends...
In order to curb my cravings for buying more tubes I impose artificially low price caps on future purchases - $6 for less popular tubes, $25 for a top tier tube etc. These are tough requirements and requires you to educate yourself about the rebranded names of famous make tubes, among other things.
Anyhow, I am now listening to a very nice sounding tube Phantaminum made me aware of - a 12SN7GT Hytron tube (fits in the first price category).
Together with EL8, 4BX and 5998 it makes for a great sounding combination.
Is the Hytron 12SN7GT a Massachusetts made B36?


----------



## attmci

JazzVinyl said:


> I too had some very loud pops, on the 2nd or 3rd day of use, when I used them previously...difference is the six pack of 6BL7's versus the 6H13C's...
> 
> Not proclaiming "victory" yet...but so far, so good.


I like your courage.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> Wow great
> Hey Zach how do you feel about being a Guinea Pig?
> I am building a new OTL using E130L output tubes thinking of sending it to you?



Looking forward to hearing more about the E130L OTL as the project develops.


----------



## rnros

zach915m said:


> Hey sure - maybe I can run a small US tour for it as well?  Whatever helps!?  Ofcourse I'd love to hear it!!!  I'll send you an email.
> 
> Will have a set of these in at the show - they work great with ZMF's - a touch brighter than my Amperex and Marconi 6080's, but well matched, quiet - and sound great on ZMF's.  Good price too boot!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Old-Stock-Pair-Philips-ECG-JAN-6080WC-Ham-Radio-Amplifier-Tube-NIB/291053696361?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Nice tube. I agree, good sound and great price. High quality and dead quiet. Have the '85 PhilipsECG JAN 6080WC. 
Think 4 of these sound even better than using a pair. With my setup, 4 project a larger soundstage, better spacial definition. 
Although, that may depend on the headphones used.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi Wildcats1,
> Just double checked my "hand" thermometer - it felt warm. Checked with my infrared thermometer - 113F.
> Turned on the 4" fan drawing away air from the amp (mounted underneath the shelf above the amp). After 20 minutes the temperature of the transformer dropped 20 degrees.
> Hand temp now barely warm; infrared 92F.
> ...



Found the temperature reading on the trans bracket can be about 9'F higher than the housing. That's after several hours.
If you have access, you can focus the laser on the trans bracket through the slots on the top right housing.
Or focus on the trans coil through the top left slots.


----------



## rnros

JazzVinyl said:


> I too had some very loud pops, on the 2nd or 3rd day of use, when I used them previously...difference is the six pack of 6BL7's versus the 6H13C's...
> 
> Not proclaiming "victory" yet...but so far, so good.



You may have found the problem. 
I had put considerable time on a pair of EL2, same as EL32 but with side contact base, and never had any noise or performance issues.
All that time was with the CETRON 6336B.


----------



## gibosi

rnros said:


> You may have found the problem.
> I had put considerable time on a pair of EL2, same as EL32 but with side contact base, and never had any noise or performance issues.
> All that time was with the CETRON 6336B.



I find it very hard to believe that the choice of output tubes could be the problem. But then, things are not always what they seem. lol


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Wow great
> Hey Zach how do you feel about being a Guinea Pig?
> I am building a new OTL using E130L output tubes thinking of sending it to you?



Will this amp use only one pair of E130L? Or will be similar to the 6BL7s with 3 pair?


----------



## heliosphann

Okay, I'm officially in the queue for a GOTL! 

Now I need to start acquiring some tubes. Any recommendations or combos I should be trying to put together? Shoot me a pm if possible. Thx.


----------



## rnros

heliosphann said:


> Okay, I'm officially in the queue for a GOTL!
> 
> Now I need to start acquiring some tubes. Any recommendations or combos I should be trying to put together? Shoot me a pm if possible. Thx.



Congrats! What tube socket options did you choose?


----------



## heliosphann

rnros said:


> Congrats! What tube socket options did you choose?



C3g sockets
6 sockets
Rectifier socket


----------



## attmci (Feb 16, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> C3g sockets
> 6 sockets
> Rectifier socket


How deep is the pocket?

The cost/value of your tube collection will pass that of your previous LC in no time.


----------



## heliosphann

attmci said:


> How deep is the pocket?
> 
> The cost/value of your tube collection will pass your previous LC in no time.



Good thing I still have the LAu... 

I'd first like to get a variety of tubes, try some different flavors, etc... Then maybe down the road I can try to dial it in with some end game tubes.


----------



## gibosi (Feb 15, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Okay, I'm officially in the queue for a GOTL!
> 
> Now I need to start acquiring some tubes. Any recommendations or combos I should be trying to put together? Shoot me a pm if possible. Thx.



Like most of us, you will likely discover that most tubes sound great. So I suggest that you start with the cheapest tubes, and keep buying. And by the time you have a 1000 or so, you will be set! lol 

Edit: To be more specific:  I assume that Glenn is giving you a 3DG4 rectifier? Pick up pairs of RCA 6AS7G and Russian 6H13C and six GE 6BX7. Almost all C3g were manufactured by Siemens, regardless of the brand, so grab the cheapest pair you can find. And finally, buy a bunch of cheap 12SN7, various brands (you are getting the 6/12/25 switch, aren't you?).

By mixing and matching these cheap tubes you will learn what you like and don't like. And then you can more purposefully go after tubes with certain characteristics, for example, more bass, more air, more pronounced midrange, etc.

So again start cheap and have fun.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> Good thing I still have the LAu...
> 
> I'd first like to get a variety of tubes, try some different flavors, etc... Then maybe down the road I can try to dial it in with some end game tubes.





gibosi said:


> Like most of us, you will likely discover that most tubes sound great. So I suggest that you start with the cheapest tubes, and keep buying. And by the time you have a 1000 or so, you will be set! lol



Since getting the Verite my tube count has nearly quadrupled.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> I find it very hard to believe that the choice of output tubes could be the problem. But then, things are not always what they seem. lol



Day 3, have had no problems... 

What we know:
Use of EL32 in C3g positions w/6x 6BL7 = loud pops developed.
Use of EL32 in C3g positions w/6x 6BX7 = loud pops developed.
Use of EL32 in C3g positions w/4x 6BX7/2x 5998 = loud pops developed.

Use of EL32 in C3g positions and 6N7 (as driver triplet) and 2x 6H13C = good sonics, no pops, and no problems.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Day 3, have had no problems...
> 
> What we know:
> Use of EL32 in C3g positions w/6x 6BL7 = loud pops developed.
> ...



Now that they have been quiet for 3 days, would you be willing to try six 6BL7/6BX7 again?


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Now that they have been quiet for 3 days, would you be willing to try six 6BL7/6BX7 again?



They popped loudly on me previously, when using 6x 6BL7, a situation I would rather avoid.

I am ready to say they are fine in this amp in the C3g sockets as long as you stick to 2x gain in the power position


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Will this amp use only one pair of E130L? Or will be similar to the 6BL7s with 3 pair?



It will have four E30L tubes two per channel. They are single pentodes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> It will have four E30L tubes two per channel. They are single pentodes.



4x E30L, all in the power position...?


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> 4x E30L, all in the power position...?



Yes actually E130L will put out 6 to 8 watts into 100 ohms


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Yes actually E130L will put out 6 to 8 watts into 100 ohms



That's a tremendous amount of power!


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> Yes actually E130L will put out 6 to 8 watts into 100 ohms


 
Goodness Glenn! Running a nuclear reactor in there. I’d love to see what you come up with..


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Like most of us, you will likely discover that most tubes sound great. So I suggest that you start with the cheapest tubes, and keep buying. And by the time you have a 1000 or so, you will be set! lol
> 
> Edit: To be more specific:  I assume that Glenn is giving you a 3DG4 rectifier? Pick up pairs of RCA 6AS7G and Russian 6H13C and six GE 6BX7. Almost all C3g were manufactured by Siemens, regardless of the brand, so grab the cheapest pair you can find. And finally, buy a bunch of cheap 12SN7, various brands (you are getting the 6/12/25 switch, aren't you?).
> 
> ...




This is great advice and especially for someone who is new to tubes. It can save someone from getting caught up and just buying expensive tubes wildly.

You can get a good idea of the sound you like instead of blindly going after the most expensive tubes that people recommend.

At times you can find small lots of driver tubes that have RCA, Sylvania,GE,Raytheon,Hytron ect. for not all that much cash.

Ken's advice may help make your tube rolling a nice fun filled journey and not a sprint to the finish.

One of the best upgrades for Glenn's OTL is the 6/12/25 volt switch  "Don't Order One Without It'


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Yes actually E130L will put out 6 to 8 watts into 100 ohms



Taking an OTL  "To Where No OTL Has Gone Before"


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Taking an OTL  "To Where No OTL Has Gone Before"



Not as much tube rolling though.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

heliosphann said:


> Okay, I'm officially in the queue for a GOTL!
> 
> Now I need to start acquiring some tubes. Any recommendations or combos I should be trying to put together? Shoot me a pm if possible. Thx.





attmci said:


> How deep is the pocket?
> 
> The cost/value of your tube collection will pass your previous LC in no time.



@attmci lol well said... Glenn hasn't started my amp yet, but I have already probably gone too far with the tube stash that i have amassed while waiting


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Yes actually E130L will put out 6 to 8 watts into 100 ohms



Are you strapping them as triodes?


----------



## attmci (Feb 16, 2019)

rnros said:


> Nice tube. I agree, good sound and great price. High quality and dead quiet. Have the '85 PhilipsECG JAN 6080WC.
> Think 4 of these sound even better than using a pair. With my setup, 4 project a larger soundstage, better spacial definition.
> Although, that may depend on the headphones used.


You can buy four (15% off) here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-QU...okr:rk:5:pf:1&frcectupt=true&autorefresh=true


----------



## Phantaminum

attmci said:


> You can buy four (15% off) here:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-QU...okr:rk:5:pf:1&frcectupt=true&autorefresh=true



Not to bash anyone but I wouldn’t buy from this seller. Too many discrepancies with his items and over charging for cheap tubes. Some tubes also looked like the logos were redone to make them look NOS. Just as a buyer beware.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Are you strapping them as triodes?



Yes usually sound better strapped as triodes.


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 16, 2019)

The Ceasar paired up with the Verite for a relaxing Saturday listening session.

1956 Foton and 2 x Tung Sol 7236 on duty.


----------



## dminches

If anyone has any interest in my Glenn 300B amp let me know.  By next week I will post it for sale outside this forum.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I am really enthralled with the Visseaux 6N7/EL32 driver triplet, powered by the 6H13C's...some very special things going on in the mids and with the soundstage...I use non-exotic cans...SENN 580 and 650.

The 650's seem particularly pleased with this tube compliment:


----------



## leftside

Are those GEC EL32? A VM date code would make them late 60’s.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Are those GEC EL32? A VM date code would make them late 60’s.



DA = Mullard Radio Valve Co., Blackburn


----------



## leftside

Thanks @gibosi I wish all dates codes were as easy as GEC


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Thanks @gibosi I wish all dates codes were as easy as GEC



Actually, these British CV codes were placed on all valves destined for use by the British military:

https://www.tubecollector.org/cv-valves.htm


----------



## JazzVinyl (Feb 16, 2019)

leftside said:


> Thanks @gibosi I wish all dates codes were as easy as GEC



Mullard, bought from Langrex NOS...and were very inexpensive (less than $8.00 USD ea?)
The pound continues to sink on Brexit fears...looks like they are about $5.00 USD now...


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Actually, these British CV codes were placed on all valves destined for use by the British military:
> 
> https://www.tubecollector.org/cv-valves.htm


Yes I know about the military "CV" and "arrow pointing upwards". I was talking about the 'VM' lettering on the tubes. This is also a similar style used by GEC for the date codes on their tubes. And their date codes are easy to identify. Starting with "A" for 1945 and incrementally going to "Z" for 1968. The second letter was just as easy to identify the month. A = January, M = December. They skipped "I".


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Yes I know about the military "CV" and "arrow pointing upwards". I was talking about the 'VM' lettering on the tubes. This is also a similar style used by GEC for the date codes on their tubes. And their date codes are easy to identify. Starting with "A" for 1945 and incrementally going to "Z" for 1968. The second letter was just as easy to identify the month. A = January, M = December. They skipped "I".



And again, this is the CV date coding system. All CV-marked tubes, regardless of manufacturer, used this date code.


----------



## mordy

If anybody wants to try the Philips 6080WC tubes, here is an inexpensive source - four tubes including shipping for $30:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-JA...h=item3b2a0ea980:g:McsAAOSwM~taUnpZ:rk:1:pf:0


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> And again, this is the CV date coding system. All CV-marked tubes, regardless of manufacturer, used this date code.


Did any other company apart from GEC also use this date for their civilian tubes?


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Did any other company apart from GEC also use this date for their civilian tubes?



I don't think so. While it appears GEC adopted an abbreviated CV coding system for use on their civilian tubes, I have not seen anything similar on Cossor, Mullard, Mazda or Brimar.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Yes I know about the military "CV" and "arrow pointing upwards". I was talking about the 'VM' lettering on the tubes. This is also a similar style used by GEC for the date codes on their tubes. And their date codes are easy to identify. Starting with "A" for 1945 and incrementally going to "Z" for 1968. The second letter was just as easy to identify the month. A = January, M = December. They skipped "I".





leftside said:


> Yes I know about the military "CV" and "arrow pointing upwards". I was talking about the 'VM' lettering on the tubes. This is also a similar style used by GEC for the date codes on their tubes. And their date codes are easy to identify. Starting with "A" for 1945 and incrementally going to "Z" for 1968. The second letter was just as easy to identify the month. A = January, M = December. They skipped "I".


Hi Leftside,
Just had to make my GEC tubes a year younger lol:
"Alternatively two letters were used. This was allowed up to January 1st 1965. In this scheme the first letter A = 1945 and so on, and the second letter A=January and so on. Letters I and O were not used. Thus AA = January 1945, NF = June 1957."


----------



## gibosi (Feb 16, 2019)

I managed to find a little time to quickly compare the three different Philips EL3N in my possession -- Eindhoven to the left, WIRAGI  in the middle and Loewe Opta to the right.

The WIRAG is the darkest of the three. The Loewe Opta is a bit brighter. And the Eindhoven is similarly bright, but also has that lush, slightly forward mid-range characteristic of Philips Holland-made tubes.

With the WIRAG, a brighter rectifier complements it very nicely. I am currently really liking a Holland-made GZ34. With the Endhoven and Loewe Opta, a more neutral to dark rectifier, like the Cossar 53KU, seems to be a better match. In the end I think everyone should have all three. 

Hungarian Tungsram and La Radiotechnique also manufactured the EL3N. But as I don't much care for the double triodes and rectifiers from these two companies, I have no interest in obtaining their EL3N.


----------



## mordy (Feb 16, 2019)

Having the GOTL allows for endless possibilities of tube rolling and, of course, the search for the elusive perfect (for your taste) tube complement. What complicates things (or makes it easier depending on your mood) is that almost everything sounds great in the GOTL.
I am using a Hytron 12SN7GT as a driver. This tube has one of the best treble extensions that I have heard, but there is something in the mid bass that is a little off - can't put my finger on it, but some kind of brassy quality is missing.
I am trying to see if I can pair it with something that will rectify this shortcoming. You would think that running 7 or 9 tubes it would be hard to hear a difference when you change one pair, but that is not the case. Changing one pair of tubes the difference in sound is readily apparent.
Started out by using a pair of 5998 tubes (together with 4x6BX7 and 2EL8). Then I switched to a pair of RCA 6AS7G - the sound became muddied and dull. Took out the EL8 pair and things improved, but after a while I decided that it is still too dull sounding, especially compared to the 5998 tubes.
Decided to exercise the tubes that are normally only reserved for a summer Sunday afternoon drive and pulled out my pair of GEC 6AS7G tubes. Nice - these tubes have a special energy and sound. The low mid bass is improved. Work in progress...


gibosi said:


> I managed to find a little time to quickly compare the three different Philips EL3N in my possession -- Eindhoven to the left, WIRAGI  in the middle and Loewe Opta to the right.
> 
> The WIRAG is the darkest of the three. The Loewe Opta is a bit brighter. And the Eindhoven is similarly bright, but also has that lush, slightly forward mid-range characteristic of Philips Holland-made tubes.
> 
> ...



Don't forget the Telefunken EL3N.....


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Started out by using a pair of 5998 tubes (together with 4x6BX7 and 2EL8). Then I switched to a pair of RCA 6AS7G - the sound became muddied and dull. Took out the EL8 pair and things improved, but after a while I decided that it is still too dull sounding, especially compared to the 5998 tubes.
> Decided to exercise the tubes that are normally only reserved for a summer Sunday afternoon drive and pulled out my pair of GEC 6AS7G tubes. Nice - these tubes have a special energy and sound. The low mid bass is improved. Work in progress...


TS 5998 >= GEC 6AS7G > 6BX7 > RCA 6AS7G

I've only tried the EL8 as drivers.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Don't forget the Telefunken EL3N.....



The EL3N and EL11 are electrically identical. The only difference in these tubes is the base. Thus, it is almost a given that the Telefunken EL3N is nothing more than a Telefunken EL11 with a side-contact base. And since I already have a pair of Telefunken EL11 there is no compelling reason to obtain the EL3N.

That said, my Telefunken EL11 are the later version with straight tubes. And if I find an earlier pair of ST bottle Telefunken EL3N for less money than the EL11, I will grab them.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Having the GOTL allows for endless possibilities of tube rolling and, of course, the search for the elusive perfect (for your taste) tube complement. What complicates things (or makes it easier depending on your mood) is that almost everything sounds great in the GOTL.
> I am using a Hytron 12SN7GT as a driver. This tube has one of the best treble extensions that I have heard, but there is something in the mid bass that is a little off - can't put my finger on it, but some kind of brassy quality is missing.



Exactly my thoughts on the CBS/Hytron tube. Great treble but something is off in the mids. Hopefully with some time the tube will improve with burn in.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> TS 5998 >= GEC 6AS7G > 6BX7 > RCA 6AS7G
> 
> I've only tried the EL8 as drivers.


You are right - only as drivers in the C3g slots.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I managed to find a little time to quickly compare the three different Philips EL3N in my possession -- Eindhoven to the left, WIRAGI  in the middle and Loewe Opta to the right.
> 
> The WIRAG is the darkest of the three. The Loewe Opta is a bit brighter. And the Eindhoven is similarly bright, but also has that lush, slightly forward mid-range characteristic of Philips Holland-made tubes.
> 
> ...




Thanks for this comparison, much appreciated...I will continue to roll with the WIRAGI
Wish they could still be had for $20, LOL.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Thanks for this comparison, much appreciated...I will continue to roll with the WIRAGI
> Wish they could still be had for $20, LOL.


We used to buy the WIRAG EL3N from a Dutch supplier for around $25 each, but I can't find the link ATM. Maybe UT or somebody has the information to this reputable seller.


----------



## OctavianH

I bought for 25 EUR / piece from here:
http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/
They come in the original yellow boxes and look like these:


----------



## mordy

Thanks - that's the source I had in mind:

*EL3N Philips*

Connected as triode this is "the" perfect driver for a 2A3 or 300B SE amplifier, amazing sound.


http://www.single-ended.com/EL3N-se.htm
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/1108

€ 20.65 (= $23.33 today)
ex.VAT
€ 25.00
incl.VAT
each
Shipping used to be Eur 18 DHL with tracking, Eur 12 without tracking.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> I've only tried the EL8 as drivers.



Mordy is using EL8 as drivers, too


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I am really enthralled with the Visseaux 6N7/EL32 driver triplet, powered by the 6H13C's...some very special things going on in the mids and with the soundstage...I use non-exotic cans...SENN 580 and 650.
> 
> 
> The 650's seem particularly pleased with this tube compliment:


Hi JV,
Tried all kinds of combinations to get the bass I like with the Hytron 12SN7 but could not find anything that worked better than my initial setup. Something amiss in the mid bass (but the treble is A+).
Decided to pull out the 4x6BX7 who by now almost acquired squatters rights as well as the GEC 6AS7 tubes and through substitutions and transpositions try replicate something of your best to date setup.
This is what I tried:
Mullard ECC31, 2xEL8 and 2x6H13C. 
Took a sigh of relief - first impression is that this sounds right. A full meaty bass and w i d e sound stage. Will let it run and gather more impressions.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> Tried all kinds of combinations to get the bass I like with the Hytron 12SN7 but could not find anything that worked better than my initial setup. Something amiss in the mid bass (but the treble is A+).
> Decided to pull out the 4x6BX7 who by now almost acquired squatters rights as well as the GEC 6AS7 tubes and through substitutions and transpositions try replicate something of your best to date setup.
> This is what I tried:
> ...



ECC31/EL8 driver triplet and 6H13C sounds good, Mordy, I can see how the ECC31/EL8 would definitely compliment one another.
Glenn gets a LOT out of the 6H13C's too!  I am rather amazed at good they are in the GOTL.

I am definitely in love with the old (1940's) ST bottle 6N7/EL32 driver triplet with 6H13C.  It really provides sound stage magic and there a clarity (sweetness as you say Mordy) to the mids that I am really digging.  

Going to stay with this combo until I am convinced there is something else to try...

On the verge of saying I like it better than Syl 6SN7W/6x 6BL7 and that is saying a LOT


----------



## attmci (Feb 18, 2019)

Deleted.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> This is great advice and especially for someone who is new to tubes. It can save someone from getting caught up and just buying expensive tubes wildly.
> 
> You can get a good idea of the sound you like instead of blindly going after the most expensive tubes that people recommend.
> 
> ...



So true.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-NIB-RCA-...:-FsAAOSwyApcP26u:sc:USPSPriority!08820!US!-1


----------



## felix3650

2359glenn said:


> Not as much tube rolling though.


From reading online someone got 10W/channel running a plate current of 100mA.
And with a plate voltage of 500V he even squeezed 115W (bias current to 30mA).

Could be a good candidate for a headphone/speaker amp 2in1. What do you think Glenn?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> Tried all kinds of combinations to get the bass I like with the Hytron 12SN7 but could not find anything that worked better than my initial setup. Something amiss in the mid bass (but the treble is A+).
> Decided to pull out the 4x6BX7 who by now almost acquired squatters rights as well as the GEC 6AS7 tubes and through substitutions and transpositions try replicate something of your best to date setup.
> This is what I tried:
> ...


What driver and rectifier do you like with the 6bx7’s?  I LOVE the Mullard ECC31, that a good pairing with them? 

I haven’t run my 6bx7’s much since I think their fairly noisy. I know I just need to burn them in more... in the meantime I would like to know what shines with them!

Like others have said, there are so many good rolls with the GOTL...

 My fave combo right now is the Cossor 53ku with Chatham 6sn7’s, and ECC31 with the Verite. It’s VICIOUS!!


----------



## 2359glenn

felix3650 said:


> From reading online someone got 10W/channel running a plate current of 100mA.
> And with a plate voltage of 500V he even squeezed 115W (bias current to 30mA).
> 
> Could be a good candidate for a headphone/speaker amp 2in1. What do you think Glenn?



The tubes won't last they are not made to run at 500 volts screen grid only rated at 150 volts.


----------



## Phantaminum

In case you guys are looking to pick up some real sweet tubes for a great Head-Fier and seller:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6sn7-tubes-fs.900375/


----------



## rosgr63

Thank you vey much for your kind words.


----------



## Jazzman1111

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey Joe, how are you liking the GS-X mk2 so far? I have heard many good things about it but unfortunately I have not experienced them myself. I also just scored a 6 month old Schiit Ragnarok at an irresistible price and will be collecting it next week. I hope that it will be good compliment for my GEL3N.


Curious if you are willing to share what the irresistible price was?  I'm looking to sell mine


----------



## leftside

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> What driver and rectifier do you like with the 6bx7’s?  I LOVE the Mullard ECC31, that a good pairing with them?
> 
> I haven’t run my 6bx7’s much since I think their fairly noisy. I know I just need to burn them in more... in the meantime I would like to know what shines with them!
> 
> ...


The Cossor 53ku + ECC31 (and 6BX7/6BL7) are one of my fave combos. Try some different 6BX7/6BL7's. I get best results when these tubes are all the same construction - especially on the more temperamental Woo. PM me if you want - I should have 4 I can part with.

I'm going to have to try the Verite later in the year. Would like to hear it on a GOTL and also on my 300B amp.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> ECC31/EL8 driver triplet and 6H13C sounds good, Mordy, I can see how the ECC31/EL8 would definitely compliment one another.
> Glenn gets a LOT out of the 6H13C's too!  I am rather amazed at good they are in the GOTL.
> 
> I am definitely in love with the old (1940's) ST bottle 6N7/EL32 driver triplet with 6H13C.  It really provides sound stage magic and there a clarity (sweetness as you say Mordy) to the mids that I am really digging.
> ...





rosgr63 said:


> Thank you vey much for your kind words.


Hi rosgr63,
Just to clarify - the prices you quote are for pairs?


----------



## Phantaminum

leftside said:


> The Cossor 53ku + ECC31 (and 6BX7/6BL7) are one of my fave combos. Try some different 6BX7/6BL7's. I get best results when these tubes are all the same construction - especially on the more temperamental Woo. PM me if you want - I should have 4 I can part with.
> 
> I'm going to have to try the Verite later in the year. Would like to hear it on a GOTL and also on my 300B amp.



The Hexfred Rectifier (which I hear sounds close to the Cossor rectifiers) + ECC35 + 6BX7s tube is such a beautiful sound. One of my favorite combos as well and because of this combo I'm having a hard time selling my Auteurs. It does everything so well especially how wide and holographic the sound stage is. 

@mordy By the way I understand what you mean now about it's solid state type sound from the TS 7236. I hear them as too bright on all of my other headphones but the Verite just loves them. 

Also glad the Hytron is working out for you with the other tube combination. The treble in that tube is so nice.


----------



## mordy (Feb 18, 2019)

Most of my listening is via speakers - a quad of Elac Debut 6/6V.2 and an Elac S10 subwoofer. What I assume is a 3 Ohm load is handled by an 80's Tandberg 3006A 150W amp. The GOTL works a preamp.
I have two main headphones, a Beyerdynamic T1 Gen 1 and a Massdrop Sennheiser HD650. And also, importantly, a cheap pair that I have learned ALWAYS to use when testing out a new tube or tube combination. I am allergic to blown pieces of equipment (which I assume are an occupational hazard among tube rollers lol).
Just like music sounds different on different headphones, different speakers do the same thing, but in general there is a good correlation.
With my previous amp (Feliks Euforia) I liked the 650 better, but with the GOTL I prefer the T1. If I can find a very good buy on a HD800 I would get it.
But I have to say that some tube combinations that sound very good over the speakers may not sound as good with headphones, and vice versa.
ATM I am using an ECC31 with a pair of EL8 as drivers, and the Svetlana Winged C 6H13C as power tubes. In the past I never really liked the 6H13C, but in this combination they really shine and are also exceptionally quiet.
Saw a post recently with an opinion that the Russian 6H13C are not worth owning. I know what the guy means, but I have learned through experience that the same tube can sound very different in different amps. It appears to me that tube recommendations really have to be linked to specific amps, although some tubes sound good in almost any amp. And then there is the synergy between tubes....
Because of the ever changing tube landscape I am reluctant to sell off tubes that don't appeal to me, because maybe tomorrow somebody will discover that exactly that tube I did not care for will sound great in combination with another tube.
I have pairs of the Bendix 6080 and Raytheon 6080 branded Bendix graphite plates but could never warm up to them. Any suggestions to make them sound great in the GOTL?


----------



## rosgr63

mordy said:


> Hi rosgr63,
> Just to clarify - the prices you quote are for pairs?


Yes for pairs


----------



## whirlwind

Hi Starvos  

Nice to see you here


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> ATM I am using an ECC31 with a pair of EL8 as drivers, and the Svetlana Winged C 6H13C as power tubes. In the past I never really liked the 6H13C, but in this combination they really shine and are also exceptionally quiet.



Hello Mordy...

6H13C also exceptionally quiet for me too, I really like that attribute.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Mordy...
> 
> 6H13C also exceptionally quiet for me too, I really like that attribute.


Hi JV,
Took out the Mullard ECC31 and put in this tube:




Quality construction:






This is a Mazda 6N7G from March 1948 made for the French Air 
Force. This tube has an uncanny ability to produce a wall of sound with a very lively presentation.
Makes you happy to listen to this tube - maybe it is related to your Visseux Joybringer?
I owe thanks to gibosi who found an old radio shop that have these for a very reasonable price some years back.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> Took out the Mullard ECC31 and put in this tube:
> 
> Quality construction:
> ...



Oh, that's a gorgeous looking tube Mordy. I especially love the fins at the top. These are now up there with the FDD20's in good looking tubes.


----------



## mordy (Feb 18, 2019)

Found an old Feliks Elise post - looks like these tubes are French Visseux. Or maybe Italian Mazda?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread.782754/page-36
The pictures of the tube from Mikelap show an identical tube to mine.
A head-fier in Saudi Arabia bought these look alikes that he says are Italian:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/maz...-grey-glass-last-chance-reduced-price.810102/

The plot gets thicker - here is a Taiwanese site where somebody claims that these Visseux 6N7G are the best sounding 6SN7 family tubes, bar none.
http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.p...ge=en&osCsid=83b3ea6ca5352480421ce9040df760c2
Possibly still for sale....


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> Hi Starvos
> 
> Nice to see you here



Thank you.
Nice to be active again, this hobby never dies, I listen to my music via headphones every day, as I have been for the last 50 years.....


----------



## gibosi

rosgr63 said:


> Thank you.
> Nice to be active again, this hobby never dies, I listen to my music via headphones every day, as I have been for the last 50 years.....



Hello Stavros... Long time no see! 

And can we assume you have been listening with the same pair of headphones all these years?


----------



## rosgr63

gibosi said:


> Hello Stavros... Long time no see!
> 
> And can we assume you have been listening with the same pair of headphones all these years?



Good morning Ken,

But of course!!!!!!!!!
I wish I kept my old headphones.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 19, 2019)

I am using GS-X mk2 as a pre-amp for GEL3N so I can use all 3 amps without cable swapping to A/B some stuff.









Oh my, the sound of the GEL3N  & GS-X as pre-amp   
One tube mode gets a nice bump in the bass & dynamics and still maintains the black back round.
The slam in two tube mode is just ridiculous!





@Sound Trooper If you have your Rag...give it a try!


----------



## Monsterzero

I recall reading somewhere that 6080 tubes have some of the best 3D imaging and soundstage...Is this a fairly accurate thing?
I can confirm that the RCA 6080s I have give the Verite the most holographic imaging of all my power tubes,but they seem rather warm,which prolly isnt optimal for the already warm Verite.
Can you guys recommend a different 6080 that has great(but not overpowering)bass,brighter than the RCAs,but still have killer imaging and 3D staging?


----------



## attmci (Feb 19, 2019)

rosgr63 said:


> Thank you.
> Nice to be active again, this hobby never dies, I listen to my music via headphones every day, as I have been for the last 50 years.....


Fifty years? WoW. I think you are in your 40s. LOL

The price of your tubes are very reasonable.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I recall reading somewhere that 6080 tubes have some of the best 3D imaging and soundstage...Is this a fairly accurate thing?
> I can confirm that the RCA 6080s I have give the Verite the most holographic imaging of all my power tubes,but they seem rather warm,which prolly isnt optimal for the already warm Verite.
> Can you guys recommend a different 6080 that has great(but not overpowering)bass,brighter than the RCAs,but still have killer imaging and 3D staging?


Try this for $18 for a pair shipped:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-JA...h=item3b2a0ea980:g:McsAAOSwM~taUnpZ:rk:1:pf:0


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> I recall reading somewhere that 6080 tubes have some of the best 3D imaging and soundstage...Is this a fairly accurate thing?
> I can confirm that the RCA 6080s I have give the Verite the most holographic imaging of all my power tubes,but they seem rather warm,which prolly isnt optimal for the already warm Verite.
> Can you guys recommend a different 6080 that has great(but not overpowering)bass,brighter than the RCAs,but still have killer imaging and 3D staging?


GEC 6080. These can be picked up for good prices sometimes. They are the only 6080 tubes I like, but I like the GEC version a lot.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Try this for $18 for a pair shipped:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-JA...h=item3b2a0ea980:g:McsAAOSwM~taUnpZ:rk:1:pf:0





leftside said:


> GEC 6080. These can be picked up for good prices sometimes. They are the only 6080 tubes I like, but I like the GEC version a lot.



Thanks gentlemen!

Which of these two has better bass and mids?


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> I am using GS-X mk2 as a pre-amp for GEL3N so I can use all 3 amps without cable swapping to A/B some stuff.
> Looking good! Having a preamp in the middle connected to various amps is for sure the best way to A/B test.
> 
> Now get a friend or significant other to flick the switch on the preamp/swap headphone cable, and see if you can tell which amp the sound is coming out of. Ideally of course they will be outputting sound at the same db level.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks gentlemen!
> 
> Which of these two has better bass and mids?


GEC hands down, but for the price of those Philips they might well be worth a try.


----------



## mordy

Agree that the GEC 6080 is the best sounding 6080 tube but hard to find - see link for recent sold prices with some very good buys on used tubes - haven't seen such prices in a long time. ATM could not find any listing at all of the GEC 6080.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=gec+6080&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
However, Monsterzero is looking for something brighter and good overall and perhaps the Philips (nee Sylvania) will do the trick.And you cannot complain about the price...


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> I am using GS-X mk2 as a pre-amp for GEL3N so I can use all 3 amps without cable swapping to A/B some stuff.
> 
> Oh my, the sound of the GEL3N  & GS-X as pre-amp
> One tube mode gets a nice bump in the bass & dynamics and still maintains the black back round.
> ...



Wonderful idea @whirlwind! I will give it a go this weekend. 

Haven't been spending much time with the rag lately as the HugoTT2 gives more than sufficient drive for all of my headphones.


----------



## attmci

Sound Trooper said:


> Wonderful idea @whirlwind! I will give it a go this weekend.
> 
> Haven't been spending much time with the rag lately as the HugoTT2 gives more than sufficient drive for all of my headphones.


TT2 can be used as a pre pre pre pre amp.


----------



## Sound Trooper

attmci said:


> TT2 can be used as a pre pre pre pre amp.



 Great idea! But I think I'll use the TT2 in its dac mode only.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 20, 2019)

mordy said:


> Agree that the GEC 6080 is the best sounding 6080 tube but hard to find - see link for recent sold prices with some very good buys on used tubes - haven't seen such prices in a long time. ATM could not find any listing at all of the GEC 6080.
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=gec+6080&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
> However, Monsterzero is looking for something brighter and good overall and perhaps the Philips (nee Sylvania) will do the trick.And you cannot complain about the price...



 In general Sylvania tubes are more bright than RCA tubes, which are generally a warmer sound signature.

The price won't break the bank either.


----------



## rosgr63 (Feb 20, 2019)

attmci said:


> Fifty years? WoW. I think you are in your 40s. LOL
> 
> The price of your tubes are very reasonable.



I'm not a spring chicken........I'm in my 60's, but young at heart and crazy.

Thanks for your kind comments, I have more tubes from my collection if there is any interest.


----------



## Phantaminum

rosgr63 said:


> I'm not a spring chicken........I'm in my 60's, but young at heart and crazy.
> 
> Thanks for your kind comments, I have more tubes from my collection if there is any interest.



Hey Stavros,

I’d definitely be interested if you had more you’re willing to part with.


----------



## rosgr63

Phantaminum said:


> Hey Stavros,
> 
> I’d definitely be interested if you had more you’re willing to part with.



Thanks for letting me know, I sent you a PM.


----------



## Monsterzero

rosgr63 said:


> I'm not a spring chicken........I'm in my 60's, but young at heart and crazy.
> 
> Thanks for your kind comments, I have more tubes from my collection if there is any interest.



I'd be interested as well.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Monsterzero said:


> I recall reading somewhere that 6080 tubes have some of the best 3D imaging and soundstage...Is this a fairly accurate thing?
> I can confirm that the RCA 6080s I have give the Verite the most holographic imaging of all my power tubes,but they seem rather warm,which prolly isnt optimal for the already warm Verite.
> Can you guys recommend a different 6080 that has great(but not overpowering)bass,brighter than the RCAs,but still have killer imaging and 3D staging?



You'll probably like the Tungsol/Chatham 6080 sound.  They're a bit more "lit up" than the RCA.  The GEC will be the best sounding 6080 as others have said, but you pay for the privilege.  TS/Chatham 6080Ws have a nice warm midrange with more air and presence than the RCA sound and can be bought cheaply.

6080s do image well, and paired with the right drivers and headphones can sound lovely.  I'm not sure why they have such a strong reputation as the "bottom of the barrel" in this family of OTL amp friendly tubes.  As with everything in the tube world it's all about finding good synergy between different components.


----------



## Monsterzero (Feb 20, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> You'll probably like the Tungsol/Chatham 6080 sound



I have the Chatham 6080s. For whatever reason the 3D imaging isnt as strong as on the RCAs when using the Verite.

EDIT: Nevermind,had a senior moment. I have the Chatham 6336b


----------



## gibosi

Recently a number of others have praised the Cossor 53KU and I wish to join the chorus:

With the Eindhoven-made EL3N and a quad of Tung-Sol 6BX7, the sound is sublime.


----------



## attmci




----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Recently a number of others have praised the Cossor 53KU and I wish to join the chorus:
> 
> With the Eindhoven-made EL3N and a quad of Tung-Sol 6BX7, the sound is sublime.


Nice tube. But can you find the difference between this and it's little brother?

BTW, too expensive these days. Cost more than, three pairs of NOS ECC35. LOL


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Nice tube. But can you find the difference between this and it's little brother?
> 
> BTW, too expensive these days. Cost more than, three pairs of NOS ECC35. LOL



Its little brother? The 52KU? The 52KU can provide at most 150ma. While it will work fine in some OTL's, it is not powerful enough for use in the GOTL, even with only four 6BX7. And therefore, I have no experience with it and can't say how it sounds....

But yes, the 53KU is not common and it is often listed on eBay for much more than it is worth, IMHO. However, if one is patient, good deals do pop up every so often.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Its little brother? The 52KU? The 52KU can provide at most 150ma. While it will work fine in some OTL's, it is not powerful enough for use in the GOTL, even with only four 6BX7. And therefore, I have no experience with it and can't say how it sounds....
> 
> But yes, the 53KU is not common and it is often listed on eBay for much more than it is worth, IMHO. However, if one is patient, good deals do pop up every so often.



I like to use the tubes I have backups. All tubes will degrade/die. 

Enjoy the music!


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> I like to use the tubes I have backups. All tubes will degrade/die.
> 
> Enjoy the music!



I have been very patient over the years I now have six Cossor 53KU. So I understand completely and I agree.


----------



## Silent One

rosgr63 said:


> Thank you.
> Nice to be active again, this hobby never dies, I listen to my music via headphones every day, as I have been for the last 50 years.....




Nice to see you, my brother! When I’ve the chance this spring, I’ll sling you a note Par Avion and tickle that mailbox over there. Of late, I have been seemingly falling apart. _At least the audio rack hasn’t. _


----------



## rosgr63

Silent One said:


> Nice to see you, my brother! When I’ve the chance this spring, I’ll sling you a note Par Avion and tickle that mailbox over there. Of late, I have been seemingly falling apart. _At least the audio rack hasn’t. _



Good morning my dear friend,
Nice to hear from you, please do email me to catchup.

I see Ty is here too, we are missing Clayton and Steven.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Its little brother? The 52KU? The 52KU can provide at most 150ma. While it will work fine in some OTL's, it is not powerful enough for use in the GOTL, even with only four 6BX7. And therefore, I have no experience with it and can't say how it sounds....
> 
> But yes, the 53KU is not common and it is often listed on eBay for much more than it is worth, IMHO. However, if one is patient, good deals do pop up every so often.


I mean the GZ 37 vs the Fatboy 53KU.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> I mean the GZ 37 vs the Fatboy 53KU.



In my opinion, the Mullard GZ37 is not as good as the Cossor. However, I think the GZ32 is as good. In fact I think the GZ32 is the best of the Mullard 5-volt rectifiers, better than the GZ33, GZ34 and GZ37. The major difference is that the Mullard GZ32 is a bit sweeter than the Cossor.


----------



## Sound Trooper

gibosi said:


> In my opinion, the Mullard GZ37 is not as good as the Cossor. However, I think the GZ32 is as good. In fact I think the GZ32 is the best of the Mullard 5-volt rectifiers, better than the GZ33, GZ34 and GZ37. The major difference is that the Mullard GZ32 is a bit sweeter than the Cossor.



Interesting! I have both the Sittard GZ34 and Mullard GZ32 (brown base) and I preferred the GZ34 in the GEL3N.


----------



## gibosi

Sound Trooper said:


> Interesting! I have both the Sittard GZ34 and Mullard GZ32 (brown base) and I preferred the GZ34 in the GEL3N.



It is important to remember that Philips manufactured the black-base GZ34 in Sittard, Brussels (MBLE Mazda) and Blackburn (Mullard). Of the Mullard-Blackburn rectifiers, including the Mullard GZ34, I prefer the GZ32. Since Sittard is located in Holland, about an hour's drive from Eindhoven, the Sittard GZ34 is most certainly not a Mullard rectifier. 

That said, I quite like the Sittard GZ34, but it is brighter and more lush than either the GZ32 or the Cossor 53KU. So for example, the GZ32 and Cossor both work very well to tame the very bright Telefunken EL11, but the Sittard GZ34 doesn't, being a bit too bright, at least for my ears.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> So for example, the GZ32 and Cossor both work very well to tame the very bright Telefunken EL11, but the Sittard GZ34 doesn't, being a bit too bright, at least for my ears.


The Sittard made GZ34 sounds epic on the Verite.


----------



## mordy (Feb 21, 2019)

Here is what looks like a good buy on a couple of GE 67BL7, but the shipping seems high:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Seven-GE-T...gEAAOSw~OdVdO2K:sc:USPSFirstClass!10952!US!-1
Only three tubes listed although 7 tubes mentioned.....There are other inconsistencies in the listing as well - let's see if you can find them!


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Here is what looks like a good buy on a couple of GE 67BL7, but the shipping seems high:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Seven-GE-T...gEAAOSw~OdVdO2K:sc:USPSFirstClass!10952!US!-1
> Only three tubes listed although 7 tubes mentioned.....There are other inconsistencies in the listing as well - let's see if you can find them!



"$500.00 Standard Shipping"

Might be money laundering... lol


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Here is what looks like a good buy on a couple of GE 67BL7, but the shipping seems high:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Seven-GE-T...gEAAOSw~OdVdO2K:sc:USPSFirstClass!10952!US!-1
> Only three tubes listed although 7 tubes mentioned.....There are other inconsistencies in the listing as well - let's see if you can find them!



Talk about inconsistencies. Starting form left to right - Left Tube: Electron Tube's box has 6BL7 and 6BX7 stamped on it. Middle Tube: Not sure but the tube looks like a GE 6BL7. Right Tube: 6BL7GTA. Also I think all three tubes have different builds.

That shipping price!


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Talk about inconsistencies. Starting form left to right - Left Tube: Electron Tube's box has 6BL7 and 6BX7 stamped on it. Middle Tube: Not sure but the tube looks like a GE 6BL7. Right Tube: 6BL7GTA. Also I think all three tubes have different builds.
> 
> That shipping price!


You missed that the listing said seven tubes - only three listed.
And that that they tested medium on a Heathkit tester, whereas the description says tested on Amplitrex. So says the picayune proofreader lol.....


----------



## mordy (Feb 21, 2019)

mordy said:


> You missed that the listing said seven tubes - only three listed.
> And that that they tested medium on a Heathkit tester, whereas the description says tested on Amplitrex. So says the picayune proofreader lol.....


And would you believe that these are Chatham 6080 tubes?





https://www.ebay.com/itm/Platinum-M...h=item5d7f7de8a4:g:RH8AAOSwGttbVD1g:rk:3:pf:0
Only $60 each for these RCA tubes that can be bought for a fraction of that price.
However, if you want the real Chathams I just saw a listing with a reasonable price ($25/pair) and best offer:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Chatham-...h=item4433c0864d:g:OssAAOSwXgxcQ3wi:rk:1:pf:0


----------



## Sound Trooper

gibosi said:


> It is important to remember that Philips manufactured the black-base GZ34 in Sittard, Brussels (MBLE Mazda) and Blackburn (Mullard). Of the Mullard-Blackburn rectifiers, including the Mullard GZ34, I prefer the GZ32. Since Sittard is located in Holland, about an hour's drive from Eindhoven, the Sittard GZ34 is most certainly not a Mullard rectifier.
> 
> That said, I quite like the Sittard GZ34, but it is brighter and more lush than either the GZ32 or the Cossor 53KU. So for example, the GZ32 and Cossor both work very well to tame the very bright Telefunken EL11, but the Sittard GZ34 doesn't, being a bit too bright, at least for my ears.



Thanks @gibosi this is really insightful. I always felt the Sittard GZ34 sounded more “dynamic and alive” while the Mullard GZ32 has a smoother and “slower” signature.


----------



## attmci

To be honest, _*I*_ will never spend over $100 on a rectifier tube. I can live with my GZ34, GZ30, and cheap RK60 etc.

I will do headphone rolling, even DAC rolling........


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> To be honest, _*I*_ will never spend over $100 on a rectifier tube. I can live with my GZ34, GZ30, and cheap RK60 etc.
> 
> I will do headphone rolling, even DAC rolling........



What amp do you have?


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> To be honest, _*I*_ will never spend over $100 on a rectifier tube. I can live with my GZ34, GZ30, and cheap RK60 etc.
> 
> I will do headphone rolling, even DAC rolling........



I have yet to pay more than $125 for a rectifier. On the other hand, rolling headphones and DACs is way beyond means. lol


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> I have yet to pay more than $125 for a rectifier. On the other hand, rolling headphones and DACs is way beyond means. lol



I can't do it 
The most expensive rectifier I have is a GZ37 i think $75


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I can't do it
> The most expensive rectifier I have is a GZ37 i think $75



Well, the vast majority of mine cost less than $100, but yes there are a select few that cost about $125. But I seem to remember that you are saving up for a WE 422A? And that one will very likely cost considerably more than $75.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Glenn told me the WE422A was a great sounding tube when we were discussing the options for my OTL amp, so I went and bought one ... the sticker shock took some time to get over though lol


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Well, the vast majority of mine cost less than $100, but yes there are a select few that cost about $125. But I seem to remember that you are saving up for a WE 422A? And that one will very likely cost considerably more than $75.


Yup. And the price will jump to $20000 in no time.


----------



## attmci (Mar 16, 2019)

Left is a GoodBoy, right is a "BadBoy"

Both are GoodBoys.

Just did a quick search and found only 1％  so called Badboy 6sn7gt on eBay are *Genuine ones (GoodBoy).

Len had posted pics of naked bad boy vs vt-231
*

*




Left is a naked GoodBoy; right is a "Badboy"*


----------



## attmci

UsoppNoKami said:


> Glenn told me the WE422A was a great sounding tube when we were discussing the options for my OTL amp, so I went and bought one ... the sticker shock took some time to get over though lol


Lord, you have too many good stuff in your collection.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> Just did a quick search and found only 1％  so called Badboy 6sn7gt on eBay are *Genuine ones.*



For those of us still learning tubeology, can you post a pic of a real one and a fake one so we know what to look for?


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> For those of us still learning tubeology, can you post a pic of a real one and a fake one so we know what to look for?


Picture attached with the previous post.

Some times it's very difficult to tell from eBay pictures. Especially those rebranded bad boys.


----------



## Sound Trooper

attmci said:


> To be honest, _*I*_ will never spend over $100 on a rectifier tube. I can live with my GZ34, GZ30, and cheap RK60 etc.
> 
> I will do headphone rolling, even DAC rolling........



Oops..  

I have to say, the WE422A sounds wonderful in the GEL3N. Before the WE 422A, I am happily rocking the Sittard GZ34.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 22, 2019)

I would be interested in knowing also...@attmci, do you own one of Glenn's amps, or if not...mind telling what amp or amps you own.

MZ...the real bad boy is in the picture posted above, it is the tube on the left.


----------



## gibosi

MZ... about bad boys.... Look for three rivet holes in the plates and three teeth on the shorter sides of the top mica.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I took this all the way back in 2011 to help people ID some of the commonly sought Sylvania 6SN7s.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Feb 22, 2019)

Far right is a "real" Bad Boy.  This particular one was made in the final week of 1951 and has military markings.  The seach doesn't end simply by finding one with 3 holes in the plate sadly.  The height of the glass, lower electrical connections, and mica supports and spacers are unique on the Bad Boy.  I also find the sheen of the black color on the plates to be just different enough to be noticeable.  Bad Boys seem to somehow be a bit deeper shade of black.
Far left is what people took to calling the "true chrome dome" and is a tube that is even more commonly misidentified than the Bad Boy is.  My personal theory is that these were made on the same line and tooling as the metal base 6SN7W tall boys but there isn't enough evidence to prove it.
Second from the right is the tube that many people buy thinking they are getting a "true chrome dome" when in fact this is a totally different tube that doesn't sound nearly as good.
Finally, second tube from the left is the shorty 6SN7W which people often buy after hearing that the W tubes are the king of the Sylvanias.  This tube sounds different from the metal base tall boy W and again, IMO, does not sound as good (though it certainly doesn't sound bad, it's kind of like a slightly less detailed Bad Boy with too much upper midrange richness).

There are many other variants, but I think these are the most common ones people go hunting for.

There are a couple more photos that show the plates from different angles.  I'll see if I can hunt those down when I have time later.  This particular photo is meant to show the differences in glass height and base height in these tubes.  The chrome dome in particular is unique as it has a shorter than normal base and if you look carefully the glass height is also just a tiny bit taller too.  It seems like a trick of the eye due to the base but there is an extra mm or so there.

edit:  fixed a ton of typos.....


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's still my opinion after all these years that the Bad Boy has the nicest tone of any 6SN7, but it can be difficult to "draw out" of the tube sometimes with the proper synergy from the other components in the system.  Like balancing a knife edge, if something tips the midrange just a tad bit one way or the other it spoils the magic.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Found the other two photos....


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> Found the other two photos....


Thanks for the info. Which years where the real bad boys made?
(And why is it called bad boy? Should be good boy, eh?)
Also, is the designation of the real one 6N7GT?


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Thanks for the info. Which years where the real bad boys made?
> (And why is it called bad boy? Should be good boy, eh?)
> Also, is the designation of the real one 6N7GT?



I believe 1951-52-53


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I believe 1951-52-53



And these are not hard and fast numbers. They have been derived through observation as no one has Sylvania's actual production figures. So if you find one that  that is slightly outside of this range, but the construction matches up, it is still a genuine Bad Boy.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Feb 22, 2019)

The name was coined by a seller who had a ton of them to sell and knows a thing or two about marketing and driving demand.  It doesn't mean anything, it's just something somebody pulled out of thin air more or less.

Construction matters more than date range, but like the other said your bracket is 51-53 as nobody really finds tubes matching the construction/design outside of this range.  52 is the most common year.

They're great tubes but don't pay a fortune for them.  People "know what they have" with this tube these days and will price them accordingly.  Worse still are the people who know what they don't have and happily lie and say they do have it.


----------



## attmci

Xcalibur255 said:


> The name was coined by a seller who had a ton of them to sell and knows a thing or two about marketing and driving demand.  It doesn't mean anything, it's just something somebody pulled out of thin air more or less.
> 
> Construction matters more than date range, but like the other said your bracket is 51-53 as nobody really finds tubes matching the construction/design outside of this range.  52 is the most common year.
> 
> They're great tubes but don't pay a fortune for them.  People "know what they have" with this tube these days and will price them accordingly.  Worse still are the people who know what they don't have and happily lie and say they do have it.


Many tubes are better than this.

The point I tried to make is too many fakes on the eBay. The sellers call every tube bad boys, and sale at much higher price than it should be.


----------



## Spandy87

So... I'm told I need one of these amps. Can someone give me a quick TL;DR on the purchasing process? Who do I contact


----------



## rosgr63

You 


Spandy87 said:


> So... I'm told I need one of these amps. Can someone give me a quick TL;DR on the purchasing process? Who do I contact



Welcome on board

PM Glenn to guide you through


----------



## Monsterzero

Spandy87 said:


> So... I'm told I need one of these amps. Can someone give me a quick TL;DR on the purchasing process? Who do I contact



PM @2359glenn to begin the process.


----------



## Phantaminum

Wanted to ask you guys if you have any suggestions for a very mid-forward sound? I'm looking for both driver and power tubes recommendations.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Thanks for the info. Which years where the real bad boys made?
> (And why is it called bad boy? Should be good boy, eh?)
> Also, is the designation of the real one 6N7GT?



Mordy, there are _many_ different types of Sys 6SN7GT tube produced at the same time (51-53). 

If you are getting familiar with the structures, you can find many many rebranded "bad boys". 

Once I found a tube (Crosley 6SN7GT) sounds pretty good, then I found it's a "bad boy" (312, 113). 

Have fun!


----------



## mordy (Feb 23, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Wanted to ask you guys if you have any suggestions for a very mid-forward sound? I'm looking for both driver and power tubes recommendations.


There should be a lot of suggestions - here is one that is my current favorite:
Drivers:  Visseux or Mazda 6N7G
              2xEL8
Powers: 2x6H13C
The Visseux/Mazda 6N7G are very hard to find ATM..


attmci said:


> Mordy, there are _many_ different types of Sys 6SN7GT tube produced at the same time (51-53).
> 
> If you are getting familiar with the structures, you can find many many rebranded "bad boys".
> 
> ...


Aha - the rebranded route! Except for Crosley, what other labels should I look for?
There are only 767 listings for 6SN7GT tubes at the moment.... Looked through a bunch; many advertised as BB but not true....Gave up when I hit the $25 mark lol.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> There should be a lot of suggestions - here is one that is my current favorite:
> Drivers:  Visseux or Mazda 6N7G
> 2xEL8
> Powers: 2x6H13C
> ...


Any labels, you name it. LOL


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> There should be a lot of suggestions - here is one that is my current favorite:
> Drivers:  Visseux or Mazda 6N7G
> 2xEL8
> Powers: 2x6H13C
> ...



I have the 6H13Cs but you were not kidding about how hard it is finding a Visseux/Mazda 6N7G tube. I'll keep my eye out and thanks Mordy!


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> I have the 6H13Cs but you were not kidding about how hard it is finding a Visseux/Mazda 6N7G tube. I'll keep my eye out and thanks Mordy!



You can try two GEC L63 tubes but you will need a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter.
A little pricey but a mid-forward tube.
Got mine from Langrex


----------



## 2359glenn

2359glenn said:


> You can try two GEC L63 tubes but you will need a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter.
> A little pricey but a mid-forward tube.
> Got mine from Langrex



If you really get crazy use two GEC L63s driving two GEC 6AS7s a little forward sounding for the Auteur but I think perfect for the Verite.
About $575 for these tubes but worth it.
These ZMF phones deserve the best tubes.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> Wanted to ask you guys if you have any suggestions for a very mid-forward sound? I'm looking for both driver and power tubes recommendations.



I suggest that you try a Holland-made ECC88 / 6DJ8, as a driver, for a lush, slightly forward mid-range.


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> If you really get crazy use two GEC L63s driving two GEC 6AS7s a little forward sounding for the Auteur but I think perfect for the Verite.
> About $575 for these tubes but worth it.
> These ZMF phones deserve the best tubes.



That’s exactly what I’m aiming for. I love the Verite but find the W shaped sound can push singers into the background compared to the Auteurs. The Liquid Platinum is a forward sounding amp
and with forward sounding tubes it fixed all the small quibbles I had.

Now i’m on the mission to do the same on the GOTL. Looks like you have your pair of Verites in. What do you think so far? The GOTL gives it such a big sound stage.


----------



## heliosphann

Has anyone came up with a "GOTL Tube Rolling Guide" yet? If not someone should. 
I've been going through this thread and it's somewhat overwhelming to say the least.


----------



## gibosi

heliosphann said:


> Has anyone came up with a "GOTL Tube Rolling Guide" yet? If not someone should.
> I've been going through this thread and it's somewhat overwhelming to say the least.



And just as soon as someone has put such a guide together, and posted it, someone else will find new tubes to roll. lol


----------



## heliosphann

gibosi said:


> And just as soon as someone has put such a guide together, and posted it, someone else will find new tubes to roll. lol



Starting to regret my decision to order one...


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> That’s exactly what I’m aiming for. I love the Verite but find the W shaped sound can push singers into the background compared to the Auteurs. The Liquid Platinum is a forward sounding amp
> and with forward sounding tubes it fixed all the small quibbles I had.
> 
> Now i’m on the mission to do the same on the GOTL. Looks like you have your pair of Verites in. What do you think so far? The GOTL gives it such a big sound stage.



No I haven't got them yet but reading what you guys are saying I think these tubes will be it.
I was going to change sockets to use EL3N for the drivers but holding off and not touch a thing until I get the Verite.
Who knows I may not use the Auteur that much after getting the Verite.

A pair of GEC L63 will set you back about $160 really not that bad comparing to what things cost.


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Starting to regret my decision to order one...



You don't have to go crazy with tube rolling just get a set that sounds good and leave it.
I myself am NOT a tube roller the same tubes will stay in for years. The same drivers are in my 300B amps for 10 years now.
And don't know the last time I changed a tube in my preamp years.

Change it to the basic model with 4 tube sockets can't go that crazy then maybe.


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> You don't have to go crazy with tube rolling just get a set that sounds good and leave it.
> I myself am NOT a tube roller the same tubes will stay in for years. The same drivers are in my 300B amps for 10 years now.
> And don't know the last time I changed a tube in my preamp years.
> 
> Change it to the basic model with 4 tube sockets can't go that crazy then maybe.



My remark was just in jest.  I think it's pretty amazing you can roll such a wide variety of tubes, even inexpensive ones. 

I was looking for some c3g's. Do you guys have a source? They seem hard to find.


----------



## rosgr63

Ken have you tried any ECC33?


----------



## FunctionalDoc

2359glenn said:


> No I haven't got them yet but reading what you guys are saying I think these tubes will be it.
> I was going to change sockets to use EL3N for the drivers but holding off and not touch a thing until I get the Verite.
> Who knows I may not use the Auteur that much after getting the Verite.
> 
> A pair of GEC L63 will set you back about $160 really not that bad comparing to what things cost.



I am waiting for you tell the best configuration options with my Verite . The 13d1 driver and  6H13c (4) are sounding mighty fine but wondering what magic you will come up with.


----------



## 2359glenn

Of course before I was selling amps and had time if I wanted to change the sound I would build a new amp have a shed full of amp carcasses.
Worse then tube rolling!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

FunctionalDoc said:


> I am waiting for you tell the best configuration options with my Verite . The 13d1 driver and  6H13c (4) are sounding mighty fine but wondering what magic you will come up with.



As soon as I get my Verite I will play.


----------



## leftside

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CV1067-L63...air-New-Old-Stock-Valve-Tube-M18/372260590937


----------



## Monsterzero

Its been my experience thus far that the recessed vocal presentation is part of what gives the Verite the holographic sound many of us love. Bring the mids more forward and that 3D sound all but goes away for me.

YMMV.


----------



## mordy

heliosphann said:


> Starting to regret my decision to order one...


Hi heliosphann,
I know that you just made a joke. Tube rolling with the GOTL is a work in progress, and some of the owners are doing things that Glenn never even dreamt about......
One great thing about the GOTL is that you don't need expensive tubes to make it sound great (and with that I mean tubes for $10-25 each). And if you have tubes from before for a different amp, most of them will work in the GOTL as well.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/CV1067-L63...air-New-Old-Stock-Valve-Tube-M18/372260590937



Not a bad price for GEC L63s $110.  Mine are G shape or coke bottle shape think I paid $160 for the pair.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Its been my experience thus far that the recessed vocal presentation is part of what gives the Verite the holographic sound many of us love. Bring the mids more forward and that 3D sound all but goes away for me.
> 
> YMMV.



What tubes are you using to bring the mids foward??


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> What tubes are you using to bring the mids foward??



I rolled in a Tung Sol 6SUGTY w/ the GZ32 and RCA 6080s. That had a more upfront presentation vs. TS round plate. I have tried other combos,but forgot to write my findings down.


----------



## gibosi

rosgr63 said:


> Ken have you tried any ECC33?



No, that's one tube I've never tried. Are you looking to sell one?


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> What amp do you have?


I have a Bottlehead Crack OTL.

I have to save to get a Glenn Amp in the future.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Not a bad price for GEC L63s $110.  Mine are G shape or coke bottle shape think I paid $160 for the pair.


Yeah the coke bottle/G shape are more expensive and rare. $160 is a good price - about the same I paid from my Osram/GEC  and GEC coke bottle L63's.

Guys, I've got a lot of these L63/6J5G/6J5GT/CV1932 regular shape, coke bottle, metal base Osram, GEC, TungSol, Ken-Rad, Brimar. I'll take some photos if people are interested?


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> No, that's one tube I've never tried. Are you looking to sell one?


Go for it!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ecc33-tubes.864508/#post-14639909


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Its been my experience thus far that the recessed vocal presentation is part of what gives the Verite the holographic sound many of us love. Bring the mids more forward and that 3D sound all but goes away for me.
> 
> YMMV.



This has been my experience as well. Especially in live recordings, recessed mids push the stage further to the back giving a sense of depth. And warmer tubes, such as RCA 6080, slightly emphasize room reverberations, offering a very holographic sound. If the mids are emphasized to much, the stage collapses and moves closer and the sound becomes more 2D.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> I rolled in a Tung Sol 6SUGTY w/ the GZ32 and RCA 6080s. That had a more upfront presentation vs. TS round plate. I have tried other combos,but forgot to write my findings down.


You always have a goal when tube rolling. Nice!


----------



## Xcalibur255

attmci said:


> Many tubes are better than this.



That all plays to personal preference of course, but this feels like you're just playing devils advocate here.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

heliosphann said:


> My remark was just in jest.  I think it's pretty amazing you can roll such a wide variety of tubes, even inexpensive ones.
> 
> I was looking for some c3g's. Do you guys have a source? They seem hard to find.



C3g auction :
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-C3g-SIE...999069&hash=item48c203845f:g:wS8AAOSwM6VcbboN


----------



## mordy

The same seller also has on auction a pair of Telefunken  EL11 from 1939 if somebody is interested:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-EL11-po...=item41fb443de9:g:25cAAOSwizpcbbCZ:rk:16:pf:0


----------



## attmci (Feb 25, 2019)

It's insane to argue with every one who don't give a ssss  on a specific driver tube.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I have been enjoying this  on Verite : https://tidal.com/album/63901854


----------



## Xcalibur255

attmci said:


> Sorry if that makes you feels bad.


Now you're just being a passive aggressive jerk and I'm done wasting my time with you.

Welcome to my ignore list.


----------



## attmci (Feb 25, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Now you're just being a passive aggressive jerk and I'm done wasting my time with you.
> 
> Welcome to my ignore list.


Ignore.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Its been my experience thus far that the recessed vocal presentation is part of what gives the Verite the holographic sound many of us love. Bring the mids more forward and that 3D sound all but goes away for me.
> 
> YMMV.



I still feel it has a great holographic stage with the mids pushed forward.  l know it’s sacrificing a little but then it feels right to my ears.

The Verite pads on the other hand makes it more neutral and pushes vocals to the front but those really do kill that great 3D staging. Almost as if everything is on a flat plane.

I’ve also found that I must really like the HD650 sound signature even with the mid bump but also enjoy the Auteurs with its more neutral signature. 

So this is a good compromise for me. I’m still undecided on the Verite as I don’t want to exclusively use it with the LP and enjoy how big it sounds on the GOTL. These headphones make instruments feel live — as if you can reach out and touch them. But the Auteurs really have a more natural sound to them while still being holographic. This is one hard decision.


----------



## rnros

Thanks to @JazzVinyl and @mordy for posting on the use of the 6N7G as a driver in the JV Trio setup.
Don't have the Visseux or Mazda, have the FIVRE 6N7Gs. Used a FVR gray glass first with a pair of EL8s. 
Exceptional sound. Not exaggerating, one of the best I've heard on the GOTL. 
Also tried a FVR clear glass, same result. (All tubes have well over a hundred hours on them.)

Was not overly impressed with the combinations I tried in the past, always felt something was lost in the mixing. 
With these two tubes, the good qualities of each comes through without any noticeable or objectionable loss. 
These have been in the GOTL since I tried them, only took them out to A/B with a pair of EL11s.
Addictive, lush sound with the technical finesse equal to anything I've heard in the GOTL.
And absolutely dead quiet.


----------



## mordy

Hi rnros,
I think we are on to something here, all three of us that have tried this triplet are saying "one of the best sounds we have heard from the GOTL."
I am using the EL8 and JV the EL32 (+ 6H13C as power tubes).
The Visseux/Mazda 6N7G is very difficult to find. The only source I could find was a seller in Thailand.
I went through my stash of 6N7GT tubes (instead of ST glass envelope, straight glass and supposedly the same tube). While looking through my box I found a Neotron from 1958. Upon closer look I discovered that it is a Visseux 6N7GT. It sounds very good, but the ST version of the Visseux 6N7G sounds better. (Found a quad Vissseux
6N7GT for sale for $300 from a seller that is even worse than bangy.)
Tried out the other 6N7GT tubes that I have: Sylvania, NU, Tung Sol and RCA. All good, but the sleeper is a cleartop RCA 6N7GT from 1953. It sounds as good as the Visseux 6N7GT (but different). 
I also have a RCA gray glass that looks almost identical to the Tung Sol, but that is not the one to look for.
In the past I have used Google Images to try to identify tubes. Now I found that Google Images can also be used for hunting down tubes. Once you see the picture you want you can click on "visit" and sometimes it is an ad for somebody from some far away place outside eBay selling the tube you are looking for.
Here is the Thai source - $70 for the Visseux 6N7G + shipping.
http://tubes.tw/shop/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=6N7G&x=10&y=3


----------



## leftside (Feb 25, 2019)

EL8's in the C3g sockets with the adapters? Do you also use an ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter for the 6N7G in the 6SN7 socket?

I picked up a couple of Visseux 6N7G from Billington at the weekend. Used and tatty appearance, but should work fine.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes you use the same Ecc31 to 6sn7 adapter for 6n7g tubes. I have a lot of nice 6n7g that I have not used for a long time.


----------



## JazzVinyl

rnros said:


> Thanks to @JazzVinyl and @mordy for posting on the use of the 6N7G as a driver in the JV Trio setup.
> Don't have the Visseux or Mazda, have the FIVRE 6N7Gs. Used a FVR gray glass first with a pair of EL8s.
> Exceptional sound. Not exaggerating, one of the best I've heard on the GOTL.
> Also tried a FVR clear glass, same result. (All tubes have well over a hundred hours on them.)
> ...



Hello nros and Mordy...

I’m with ya! Still have my Visseaux 6N7G and EL32’s in as drivers (you guys have EL8) and 6H13C as powers, and have to agree, I believe this is the best I have heard from the GOTL.  

There is a crystal clarity and velvet gloved nuance to mids and treble that one dreams about, strives for.  There is a big solid foundation of deep powerful bass that is guaranteed to be your new best friend. Addictive, this is! 

I have not rolled since going with this combo.  

I can hear “around” the instruments and voices, the depth and precision of sound stage is surprising, sometimes startling. The sound stage can expand to great widths and heights...then rein you back in.   “This can’t be” comes to mind.  

Sounds float about in a liquid space in your head.  The music has been freed, to travel at will, you are a happy passenger, glad to be along, to enjoy the journey.  

I am hearing stuff I have never heard before and hearing in a “new way” - kind of wicked and scary...and fun!

Enjoy, all


----------



## mordy

Speaking about the power tubes, what is the difference between 6N5S and 6N13S/6N13P/6H13C, if any?


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 26, 2019)

I fired the OTL up this morning for the first time in awhile....nothin fancy, no adapters...just the warm Mullard 6080 and the transparent C3g tubes. These tubes match well together.
Listening to Buddy Guy's Heavy Love album with the ZMF Ori......Great sound, life is good!


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Speaking about the power tubes, what is the difference between 6N5S and 6N13S/6N13P/6H13C, if any?



According to this vendor, the 6N5S is the military version of the 6N13S.

https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=107

While that may be the case, these datasheet summaries suggest that they are slightly different:

http://www.russiantubes.com/prop.php?t=12&p=211
http://www.russiantubes.com/prop.php?t=12&p=203

Currently, I am unaware of anyone who has actually compared these two tubes and published the results.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Here is the Thai source - $70 for the Visseux 6N7G + shipping.
> http://tubes.tw/shop/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=6N7G&x=10&y=3


Those three 6N7G didn't last long! Still has plenty of the 6N7GT at good prices though.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello nros and Mordy...
> 
> I’m with ya! Still have my Visseaux 6N7G and EL32’s in as drivers (you guys have EL8) and 6H13C as powers, and have to agree, I believe this is the best I have heard from the GOTL.
> 
> ...



Damn you JV! My wallet hates you.

So whats this new roll exactly,and adapters required?


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Damn you JV! My wallet hates you.
> 
> So whats this new roll exactly,and adapters required?


Hi Monsterzero,
For the 6N7G (and 6N7GT) tubes you need one ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...h=item2c87f48660:g:3-UAAOSwMmBVvXRv:rk:5:pf:0
For the EL8 or EL32 you need custom adapters from Deyan (eBay seller ein_sof) to insert into the C3g sockets. In this case the EL8/32 tubes are cheaper than the adapters.
The tube complement are triple drivers: 1x6N7G or 6N7GT, and a pair of EL8 or EL32. Power tubes are a pair of Russian Svetlana 6AS7 equivalent - 6H13C, 6N13P or 6N5P.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Damn you JV! My wallet hates you.
> 
> So whats this new roll exactly,and adapters required?



MZ...

You already have the EL8’s...the 6H13C’s are not expensive and should be able to wrangle an American 6N7G for not much dough...just need that one adapter that Mordy provided a link to...

And caution, sir, remember that I do not own any exotic headphones, so my suggestions are always geared towards old school high impedance Sennheiser cans...


----------



## rnros (Feb 26, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi rnros,
> I think we are on to something here, all three of us that have tried this triplet are saying "one of the best sounds we have heard from the GOTL."
> I am using the EL8 and JV the EL32 (+ 6H13C as power tubes).
> The Visseux/Mazda 6N7G is very difficult to find. The only source I could find was a seller in Thailand.
> ...



Thanks for all the good information, mordy.
And I did take advantage of your lead to purchase the Visseaux, one each of the G and GT.
Never had an opportunity to purchase one of the VSX 6N7G before, so special thanks for that.

Think I have one of the American 6N7Gs somewhere, have to look for it. Don't have any of the GTs, except the one incoming.
Do have a couple of the 6A6s, and did listen briefly to a Ken Rad, remember it was good but not how good.
Both of those are so inexpensive, and not so hard to find. I'll post when I give the KR 6A6 a listen again.

Have you tried the 6N7 metal jacket in trio mode?


----------



## rnros

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello nros and Mordy...
> 
> I’m with ya! Still have my Visseaux 6N7G and EL32’s in as drivers (you guys have EL8) and 6H13C as powers, and have to agree, I believe this is the best I have heard from the GOTL.
> 
> ...



Wow. That is a good description. But see, it sounds way too good to be true. 

LOL I know you're telling the truth, because it's a good description of what I'm hearing also.
Even though my combination is with the EL8 instead of the EL32, and a FVR instead of a VSX.
I'll have to find the EL32 adapters and give those a listen.
Thanks again for the heads up on this JV Trio. Has me under it's spell...


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> Wow. That is a good description. But see, it sounds way too good to be true.
> 
> LOL I know you're telling the truth, because it's a good description of what I'm hearing also.
> Even though my combination is with the EL8 instead of the EL32, and a FVR instead of a VSX.
> ...


I am not as eloquent as JV in describing the sound, but two words come to mind: startling and (near) perfect.
Why almost perfect? There really isn’t anything that I feel is lacking at all, but I still have a hunch that the GOTL can take things even further....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I am not as eloquent as JV in describing the sound, but two words come to mind: startling and (near) perfect.
> Why almost perfect? There really isn’t anything that I feel is lacking at all, but I still have a hunch that the GOTL can take things even further....



Its the incredible clarity and 3D soundstage that has me spellbound...

The sum is better than the parts.  6N7G w/o EL’s following is not magic.  

And the EL’s alone are good, but not magic.   

But together...

If you come up with better, Mordy, I will be interested.  

Also wonder what differs between use of EL8 vs EL32’s....

Cheers...


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Its the incredible clarity and 3D soundstage that has me spellbound...
> 
> The sum is better than the parts.  6N7G w/o EL’s following is not magic.
> 
> ...


I am apprehensive of the EL32 because when I used it there were loud popping noises which I am allergic to (could blow a driver).
It is possible that this tube is incompatible with 6BL7/6BX7 tubes for unknown reasons - JV did not have problems with other power tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I am apprehensive of the EL32 because when I used it there were loud popping noises which I am allergic to (could blow a driver).
> It is possible that this tube is incompatible with 6BL7/6BX7 tubes for unknown reasons - JV did not have problems with other power tubes.



Right - heard the popping too, when using 6BL7 as powers...

All is well with 6H13C as powers.  Very quiet...

So, dunno...


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> I am apprehensive of the EL32 because when I used it there were loud popping noises which I am allergic to (could blow a driver).
> It is possible that this tube is incompatible with 6BL7/6BX7 tubes for unknown reasons - JV did not have problems with other power tubes.





JazzVinyl said:


> Right - heard the popping too, when using 6BL7 as powers...
> 
> All is well with 6H13C as powers.  Very quiet...
> 
> So, dunno...



No issues with EL32 and CTN 6336B. Using the Xuling adapter. 
Works fine solo and trio with 6N7G, total quiet.


----------



## JazzVinyl

rnros said:


> No issues with EL32 and CTN 6336B. Using the Xuling adapter.
> Works fine solo and trio with 6N7G, total quiet.



Same EL32 adapters here, and with 6H13C, no problems, totally quiet as well.


----------



## JazzVinyl

@rnros  - Since you have both EL32 and EL8, which do you feel are better companions in the 6N7G triplet?


----------



## attmci

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello nros and Mordy...
> 
> I’m with ya! Still have my Visseaux 6N7G and EL32’s in as drivers (you guys have EL8) and 6H13C as powers, and have to agree, I believe this is the best I have heard from the GOTL.
> 
> ...


I am taking notes. Will see what's the next. LOL


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> I am taking notes. Will see what's the next. LOL


Hi attmci,
You could keep things simple and just get a basic three socket Glenn OTL for around 1/2 the price of the 9 socket models.
For 25V driver tubes you have exactly two choices: 13D1 and 1633.
Any 2.5 - 5A output tubes will do - even inexpensive Svetlana 6H13C and I am sure your Bendix 6080 will sound great too.....
After having bought the 9 socket GOTL I sometimes wonder if I should have chosen the simple option instead.
But then, when you experience those startling, magic listening moments, you just know that it is worth all the trouble and experimentation.
And, as they say about traveling to a certain destination, half the fun is getting there.....


----------



## gibosi

And just imagine how much more fun you would be having if you were also rolling tube rectifiers. lol


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> And just imagine how much more money you would be spending if you were also rolling tube rectifiers. lol



There.
Fixed it for you.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> There.
> Fixed it for you.



touché! lol


----------



## rnros

JazzVinyl said:


> @rnros  - Since you have both EL32 and EL8, which do you feel are better companions in the 6N7G triplet?



To be fair, the EL32 is NOS, only had it running for a few hours before giving it a serious listen.
For now, I prefer the the EL8. 

EL32 is the older ST version. Using the CTN 6336Bs as powers.


----------



## attmci (Feb 27, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> You could keep things simple and just get a basic three socket Glenn OTL for around 1/2 the price of the 9 socket models.
> For 25V driver tubes you have exactly two choices: 13D1 and 1633.
> Any 2.5 - 5A output tubes will do - even inexpensive Svetlana 6H13C and I am sure your Bendix 6080 will sound great too.....
> ...


Thanks, Mordy.
I don't tube rolling now, unless I can obtain some new tubes I wanna to try (<$100). Some tubes tested perfect, but it may be microphonic like crazy. I cannot afford to damage my headphone drivers.


----------



## attmci (Feb 27, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> There.
> Fixed it for you.


Hmm, the rectifier tubes could be something you are looking for to change the sounds. LOL

I know you are listening two top of the line headphones now. You have to let us know which one you prefer and recommend it to Ken/Mordy/JV............


----------



## Monsterzero (Feb 27, 2019)

Yes,rectifiers def change the sound.Just popped in a new(for me)4 volt rectifier recommended to me by Ken. Im letting it warm up before I give it a listen.
And yes,I have the Meze Empyrean here with me for a week. I havent tried it out yet on my GOTL as its a planar type, 32ohms,and doesnt sound great via my vintage receivers. Typically what sounds good on my GOTL,sounds good on my receivers as well.

Im going to do a video and written review for them,but while I think theyre very nice sounding headphones,and their build and comfort are off the charts,I still believe theyre over priced and arent as good as the Verite,which is cheaper.

EDIT: Actually it sounds pretty good on my GOTL...still not as good as the Verite,but the Glenn continues to impress.


----------



## attmci (Feb 27, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Yes,rectifiers def change the sound.Just popped in a new(for me)4 volt rectifier recommended to me by Ken. Im letting it warm up before I give it a listen.
> And yes,I have the Meze Empyrean here with me for a week. I havent tried it out yet on my GOTL as its a planar type, 32ohms,and doesnt sound great via my vintage receivers. Typically what sounds good on my GOTL,sounds good on my receivers as well.
> 
> Im going to do a video and written review for them,but while I think theyre very nice sounding headphones,and their build and comfort are off the charts,I still believe theyre over priced and arent as good as the Verite,which is cheaper.
> ...


I believe John Darko reviewed it on YouTube. I could be wrong.

Found it:


----------



## Monsterzero (Feb 27, 2019)

attmci said:


> I believe John Darko reviewed it on YouTube. I could be wrong.



Youre correct. Will check out his review when I have a chance.
Again theyre great sounding headphones,but the Verite does everything it does,just better.
Deeper sub bass extension. Much wider staging. Deeper 3D imaging.Taller staging. More musical...pretty much everything,except for the comfort,speed and slightly cleaner sounding bass.
If they were $2000.00 instead of 3K,or even 1500.00 I think I'd be more wow'd by them.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> I believe John Darko reviewed it on YouTube. I could be wrong.
> 
> Found it:




Interesting. He has higher end up stream gear than I(Chord Dave) but my opinion of the Empyrean differs than his. He mentions an expansive staging and the quality of the stock cable as positives....Hmmm.

Perhaps im simply spoiled by ZMF headphones?


----------



## mordy

From the little I know I got the impression that rectifier tubes can cause more problems than regular tubes, and when I read that owners of ss HEXFRED rectifiers were happy with them I decided to go that route when I ordered the GOTL,
Also it seemed to make it simpler from a tube rolling perspective.
As mentioned before, I do most of my listening via speakers. I have a T1 and a HD650 as well. If I can find a very good deal on a HD800 I might consider it.
And in response to attmci’s worry about blowing a driver when trying out a new tube, I always listen to any new tube through an inexpensive set of headphones first. If there is a noise problem it usually  shows up right away, and the cheapie headphone isn’t that sensitive either and did not break so far from problem tubes.
And microphonics can sometimes be corrected through burning in, applying heat to the tube pins and resolder them, and applying high temp silicone tape to the glass envelope.
The tape may work for acoustic feedback and hum, and resoldering for pops and clicks.


----------



## attmci (Feb 27, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Interesting. He has higher end up stream gear than I(Chord Dave) but my opinion of the Empyrean differs than his. He mentions an expansive staging and the quality of the stock cable as positives....Hmmm.
> 
> Perhaps im simply spoiled by ZMF headphones?


I don't think he had used the DAVE to drive the Empyrean.

The Empyrean could be a more SET amp friendly headphone. But your review will be highly appreciated (use the very nice GOTL).


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> From the little I know I got the impression that rectifier tubes can cause more problems than regular tubes, and when I read that owners of ss HEXFRED rectifiers were happy with them I decided to go that route when I ordered the GOTL,
> Also it seemed to make it simpler from a tube rolling perspective.
> As mentioned before, I do most of my listening via speakers. I have a T1 and a HD650 as well. If I can find a very good deal on a HD800 I might consider it.
> And in response to attmci’s worry about blowing a driver when trying out a new tube, I always listen to any new tube through an inexpensive set of headphones first. If there is a noise problem it usually  shows up right away, and the cheapie headphone isn’t that sensitive either and did not break so far from problem tubes.
> ...


HD 650 is a very very nice headphone. HD 800 has very different sound signature.

I will let Ken to comment on the rectifier tubes. 

TTFN


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> From the little I know I got the impression that rectifier tubes can cause more problems than regular tubes, and when I read that owners of ss HEXFRED rectifiers were happy with them I decided to go that route when I ordered the GOTL,



In my experience that is certainly not true. Rectifiers are very simple tubes. In fact, if you could cut out the two grids in a double triode you would have a full-wave rectifier. And they very rarely fail. In the few instances when I have had one fail, the fuse blows and you simply pop in a new fuse and a new rectifier and you are good to go.

Rather, I would say that output tubes, for example, 5998s, cause more problems than rectifiers, and the collateral damage to other components, such as headphones, is often considerably worse. But yes, those with HEXFREDs appear to be very happy with their selection.

However, I wonder.....   When those with HEXFREDs get a new driver and roll through various triple-driver combinations, EL8, EL32 and similar, to obtain the best sound, it doesn't seem to be significantly different than rolling through rectifiers to obtain the best sound. So perhaps HEXFREDs haven't really made things more simple for those of you who do this... And perhaps many of you are simply frustrated rectifier rollers?


----------



## Monsterzero

@gibosi 
That 4v rectifier is very,very nice. Great separation. Not sure if I like it more than the GZ34 yet,but you were right,they sound quite different from one another.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> The Empyrean could be a more SET amp friendly headphone. But your review will be highly appreciated (use the very nice GOTL).


While the GOTL sounds surprisingly good with the Empyrean,I prefer the SS GLM2 to drive it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> While the GOTL sounds surprisingly good with the Empyrean,I prefer the SS GLM2 to drive it.



If driving a 32 ohm phone you might better use 6336 output tubes or four 6AS7 type tubes.
This will better drive low impedance phones.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 28, 2019)

attmci said:


> Thanks, Mordy.
> I don't tube rolling now, unless I can obtain some new tubes I wanna to try (<$100). Some tubes tested perfect, but it may be microphonic like crazy. I cannot afford to damage my headphone drivers.



attmci....if you are interested in a Glenn OTL that has two power tube sockets ...6/12/25 volt switch....C3g drivers...5998 power switch...stepped attenuator....Lundahal transformer....42EC4 tubes as rectifiers.....shoot me a pm, if you don't want to wait in line  

The amp is wonderful....I just hate the hassle of using the adapters for the 6BX7/6BL7 tubes, and  I gave my adapters to gibosi.

Glenn will be making me a 6 socket power tube version


----------



## attmci (Feb 28, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> attmci....if you are interested in a Glenn OTL that has two power tube sockets ...6/12/25 volt switch....C3g drivers...5998 power switch...stepped attenuator....Lundahal transformer....42EC4 tubes as rectifiers.....shoot me a pm, if you don't want to wait in line
> 
> The amp is wonderful....I just hate the hassle of using the adapters for the 6BX7/6BL7 tubes, and  I gave my adapters to gibosi.
> 
> Glenn will be making me a 6 socket power tube version


Joe, thanks a bunch for the offer. I saw a picture of your GOTL the other day. Seems it used a pair of rectifier tubes similar to those on the Glen 300 amp. Is that true?

I have a lot of 6bl7/6bx7 tubes too. Let me know if you look for a specific one to pair with the others in your new amp.

Must resist,  must.

We are lucky to have Glenn's amp still in production. A number of good engineers retired in the past couple of years.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 28, 2019)

attmci said:


> Joe, thanks a bunch for the offer. I saw a picture of your GOTL the other day. Seems it used a pair of rectifier tubes similar to those of the Glen 300 amp. Is that true?
> 
> I have a lot of 6bl7/6bx7 tubes too. Let me know if you look for a specific one to pair with the others in your new amp.
> 
> Must resist,  must.



I have many pairs of 6BX7/6BL7  tubes...RCA...Tung Sol....Sylvanis flat plates.....GE

Yes it does use those rectifier tubes  42EC4/PY500.  Nothing else uses these tubes so they can be bought for about $4 each!

I like their slow start up, Glenn configures them in a way where one tubes starts a little bit before the other tube does. 

You may see one in this picture ?


----------



## UntilThen

What’s up folks. I see you have been busy rolling in the deep !

Well I have lots of tubes but no amp to roll in so to cure the itch, I am getting a vintage Sansui au 505 amp today. 

Fully restored of course.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> What’s up folks. I see you have been busy rolling in the deep !
> 
> Well I have lots of tubes but no amp to roll in so to cure the itch, I am getting a vintage Sansui au 505 amp today.
> 
> Fully restored of course.




I have wondered where you have been......thought maybe you started riding to the USA on your bike


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> What’s up folks. I see you have been busy rolling in the deep !
> 
> Well I have lots of tubes but no amp to roll in so to cure the itch, I am getting a vintage Sansui au 505 amp today.
> 
> Fully restored of course.


Is the 505 to be used as a headphone amp? Read that it is an integrated 12W/channel amp, but very confusing since other sources quote 20W,23W,25W and 30W!


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Is the 505 to be used as a headphone amp? Read that it is an integrated 12W/channel amp, but very confusing since other sources quote 20W,23W,25W and 30W!



The old receivers and amps had a resistor in line off of the speaker amp to drive headphone so you didnt blow out your ears/headphones.
Ive used my Kenwood  Eleven GX which is 125 watts to drive my headphones. Unfortunately it doesnt sound anywhere as good as my Sansui 881. Pity cuz the Eleven GX is one of the most beautiful receivers ever made. And yes,it has two headphone jacks.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I have wondered where you have been......thought maybe you started riding to the USA on your bike



I was on a hiatus. It's necessary sometimes. 

I would need a vintage bike to get to USA !!!


----------



## pippen99

Monsterzero said:


> The old receivers and amps had a resistor in line off of the speaker amp to drive headphone so you didnt blow out your ears/headphones.
> Ive used my Kenwood  Eleven GX which is 125 watts to drive my headphones. Unfortunately it doesnt sound anywhere as good as my Sansui 881. Pity cuz the Eleven GX is one of the most beautiful receivers ever made. And yes,it has two headphone jacks.
> 
> I was thinking of getting a Sansui 5000a for old time's sake.  I was meaning to ask you but your post seems to imply that when using your vintage receivers you use the headphone jack rather than speaker taps as outputs for headphones.  Is this accurate?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Is the 505 to be used as a headphone amp? Read that it is an integrated 12W/channel amp, but very confusing since other sources quote 20W,23W,25W and 30W!



I bought it with the intention of driving both my headphones and my speakers - Axis LS28 bookshelf speakers.

12w per channel rated but peak I think is 25w. Don't let the figures fool you. This amp drives a pair of speakers beautifully. These 70s vintage amp have grunt and power a plenty.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> The old receivers and amps had a resistor in line off of the speaker amp to drive headphone so you didnt blow out your ears/headphones.
> Ive used my Kenwood  Eleven GX which is 125 watts to drive my headphones. Unfortunately it doesnt sound anywhere as good as my Sansui 881. Pity cuz the Eleven GX is one of the most beautiful receivers ever made. And yes,it has two headphone jacks.



MZ, that Kenwood is beautiful ! It has sex appeal.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 1, 2019)

I have the 5000a and IMO its far too warm...seriously so very warm. I'd suggest the 881 which has a much more balanced tone,with stellar mids.
I use my 881 15 hours a day,7 days a week to drive my Focal Aria 905s and a sub. When I feel like rocking my Sextetts I use my 881 for them as well. The AKGs+ 881 is a magical combo. I prefer it to my GOTL for the Sextetts,the only headphone I can say that about.

Correct. I use the jack. When I had the HE-6 I used the speaker taps,but no headphone I currently own requires that amount of insane power.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> MZ, that Kenwood is beautiful ! It has sex appeal.



Glad im not alone thinking its truly stunning!


----------



## pippen99

It is more of a nostalgia thing as I had a 5000a in college that somebody's brother got in a PX in Vietnam.  I wish I had never gotten rid of it.


----------



## UntilThen

And here it is the Sansui AU 505 driving my HD800..... holographically. Beautiful mid-range, deep bass and refined treble. It's musical. 

It has tone controls ! Treble, bass, balance. Filters, loudness switch, headphone and mic inputs. Speakers out for A / B or AB. This was produced in 1974 but the owner is a Sansui hobbyist and has upgraded and the overhaul included new Elna Silmic II, Nichicon HE and Panasonic FC capacitors, new transistors where required, and the bias and centre voltage adjustments are spot-on.


----------



## Monsterzero

pippen99 said:


> It is more of a nostalgia thing as I had a 5000a in college that somebody's brother got in a PX in Vietnam.  I wish I had never gotten rid of it.



Gotcha.
5000a can be had faily cheaply these days,but you need to be careful. Sansui had to recall the 5000a as there was a faulty board that would literally catch on fire,giving an all new meaning to a warm sounding receiver.
If you do look for one,do your research,and occasionally you can find one where the seller is aware of this problem and will list that it has the newer board installed.


----------



## UntilThen

Drives my LCD-2f even better !!! Now for the 70s songs. Bring on Dire Straits and Pink Floyd.


----------



## UntilThen

I went to collect the amp from the owner and he has like 6 Sansui amps on racks in his music room. ! and he service them too. Looks like I'm hooked.

And the price for this restored Sansui is cheaper than my Jotunheim.


----------



## UntilThen

Until the GOTL returns and the arrival of Stratus, I'll have to remain tubeless with these but this Sansui is such a lovely tone. Now I know what's all the fuss about Sansui.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Until the GOTL returns and the arrival of Stratus, I'll have to remain tubeless with these but this Sansui is such a lovely tone. Now I know what's all the fuss about Sansui.



You and others might appreciate this video I did recently...


----------



## UntilThen

NIce video. Informative. I like it. It's by chance I stumble upon a vintage amp for headphones. Never did think about it but when this ad came up on the local forum and the seller has so much information about it, like the restoration done and it's only $350 .... well that's worth the hour's drive to get it.


----------



## pippen99

Great video.  I like a warm signature as I drive LCD-4 and Verite out of a Cavalli Lau( a warm SS amp).  You seem to be saying that either of those out of a 5000a would go beyond warm into darkness.


----------



## UntilThen

Nice warm sound but not overly but it's the mid-range. It's laced with honey and sweet. With Yggdrasil feeding the Sansui au-505, the Audeze LCD-2f sounds very very lovely. I need to connect the Rega RP8 to it and spin some vinyl.


----------



## Monsterzero

pippen99 said:


> Great video.  I like a warm signature as I drive LCD-4 and Verite out of a Cavalli Lau( a warm SS amp).  You seem to be saying that either of those out of a 5000a would go beyond warm into darkness.



I havent heard your Cavalli amp so I cant say one way or the other.
The 5000a is super warm yes,but it also has phenomenal bass,so it might be a good match. Only way to find out is to grab one. I havent priced 5000a recently,but they can be had for around 200.00 give or take.
I used to own the LCD-2,not at the same time as my 5000a,but I would guess that it would sound suffocated together. Ive yet to hear a LCD-4,so take that with a cpl grains of salt.


----------



## leftside

I love the old vintage gear. If I could have a third music room, it would be all vintage. The vintage McIntosh preamps and amps I've had in the past had a far better headphone output than their newer offerings.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Drives my LCD-2f even better !!! Now for the 70s songs. Bring on Dire Straits and Pink Floyd.




I would think that the planar bass would be heavenly on something like this....planar bass is so addicting!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I would think that the planar bass would be heavenly on something like this....planar bass is so addicting!



I'm hooked after one day. This being a Glenn amp thread, I'll make this the last post on the Sansui integrated amp I just bought. It's a 70s amp but lovingly restored by a master technician who has a very nice collection of Sansui amp in his house. I should have a listen at the bigger Alpha series that he has but then again that would tempt me to get one.

I did not expect the Sansui au 505 to make such beautiful music with both my LCD-2f and HD800. It's clear, silky mid-range, thumping bass and very refined highs that is not fatiguing. I'm feeding digital music from Yggdrasil but it sounds like vinyl. As for power, there's a plenty. Volume is at 1/4 (9 o'clock). A slight nudge upwards and it's LOUD but careful here.... loud but very enjoyable. This one's a keeper. Just hope I won't be tempted to get more Sansui(s).


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> I'm hooked after one day. This being a Glenn amp thread, I'll make this the last post on the Sansui integrated amp I just bought. It's a 70s amp but lovingly restored by a master technician who has a very nice collection of Sansui amp in his house. I should have a listen at the bigger Alpha series that he has but then again that would tempt me to get one.
> 
> I did not expect the Sansui au 505 to make such beautiful music with both my LCD-2f and HD800. It's clear, silky mid-range, thumping bass and very refined highs that is not fatiguing. I'm feeding digital music from Yggdrasil but it sounds like vinyl. As for power, there's a plenty. Volume is at 1/4 (9 o'clock). A slight nudge upwards and it's LOUD but careful here.... loud but very enjoyable. This one's a keeper. Just hope I won't be tempted to get more Sansui(s).


Very tempted to get one of these. A local shop in Rome is selling a mint AU-505 for 250€. Oh man, just when I'm saving up for a GEL3N...


----------



## leftside

We have a great vintage audio place fairly close to me. There are some Sansui for sale.
https://www.iavscanada.com/


----------



## Monsterzero

You guys do realize that theres a massive thread already where you can post about vintage gear 'til your hearts content?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners.537704/


----------



## UntilThen

Ah ty Monster. Now I have a place to go and talk about this new found passion. It's sweet as music. Goose bumps.


----------



## Monsterzero

A week back I made the observation that brighter tubes made the 3D stage collapse on the Verite,and while @gibosi concurred ,Im having a tough time wrapping my brain around this phenomenon.
Everything Ive learned over the years about headphones has taught me that the headphones with best 3D imaging were also plagued with,at times,screeching highs. Whereas warm headphones suffered with limited staging at best.

So,even though the Verite is already a warm headphone I guess I need warm tubes to maximize the staging.

I already own the TS round plate,which thus far sounds the best for the Verites,and am already using RCA 6080s,which again bring the most depth to the Verites.

Any suggestions on drivers and power tubes that are warm and have +3D properties?

For a rectifier,im pretty much digging the GZ34,even though the GZ32 is warmer,the 34 just sounds cleaner and better.


----------



## JazzVinyl

It's gently snowing.  Visseaux 6N7G/EL32's and 6H13C's are still in, here.  Senn 580's are still delivering a magical 3D/Holographic sound stage with uber clarity.

No desire to roll any other tubes.   They do need a good 20 min warm up.  Then..."your there"...


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> A week back I made the observation that brighter tubes made the 3D stage collapse on the Verite,and while @gibosi concurred ,Im having a tough time wrapping my brain around this phenomenon.
> Everything Ive learned over the years about headphones has taught me that the headphones with best 3D imaging were also plagued with,at times,screeching highs. Whereas warm headphones suffered with limited staging at best.
> 
> So,even though the Verite is already a warm headphone I guess I need warm tubes to maximize the staging.
> ...




Mullard 6080 power tubes are a pretty warm sound, as is RCA 6AS7G


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> Mullard 6080 power tubes are a pretty warm sound, as is RCA 6AS7G



I think I have Mullard 6080s search saved on eBay,but need to dbl check.

Wont the RCA 6AS7G have essentially the same tonality as the RCA6080s? Or am I simplifying the "house sound" thing too much?

Any suggestions for drivers,or have I already hit near the best I can get with the Tung Sol RP?


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> I think I have Mullard 6080s search saved on eBay,but need to dbl check.
> 
> Wont the RCA 6AS7G have essentially the same tonality as the RCA6080s? Or am I simplifying the "house sound" thing too much?
> 
> Any suggestions for drivers,or have I already hit near the best I can get with the Tung Sol RP?


Not yet. 
My friend, you need to try metal base 6sn7w, real bad boy, ecc 33,35. Replace the rca power tube with gec 6as7g, try we 421a, maybe a metal base gz34 because you like the normal one. You are beginning to get there. Then we can go from there. LOL.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Any suggestions for drivers,or have I already hit near the best I can get with the Tung Sol RP?


Plenty of drivers are better than the TS RP - but of course this is just my opinion. The Mullard ECCxx tubes, B65/B36. I’m also running 4 GEC L63 ST and I’d put these right up there with the other tubes I mentioned. Of course you only need two of these for your amp. I’ve been extremely impressed with all L63, 6J5’s I’ve tried. Ordered some more so I have quads and will also be trying TungSol and Raytheon soon. I’d be quite happy if I never ran a “regular “ 6SN7 again.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 3, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Any suggestions for drivers,or have I already hit near the best I can get with the Tung Sol RP?



Again it is all about personal preference and synergy. Yes, some would say the TS is the best. But others might say the Sylvania 6SN7W, the Siemens C3g, the Philips EL3N, the Mullard ECC32, ECC33, ECC35 or GEC B65 are better.

Since it appears that you are attempting to optimize your system to a set of headphones that are relatively new and not well known, I'm afraid you are largely on your own here... Keep rolling!


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> Not yet.
> My friend, you need to try metal base 6sn7w, real bad boy, ecc 33,35. Replace the rca power tube with gec 6as7g, try we 421a, maybe a metal base gz34 because you like the normal one. You are beginning to get there. Then we can go from there. LOL.



From my understanding my GZ34 is a good one.

Yeah im interested in a real "Bad Boy" but my eye isnt as well trained as others when it comes to spotting fakes. I have saved the post you made showing the differences for future reference.



leftside said:


> Plenty of drivers are better than the TS RP - but of course this is just my opinion. The Mullard ECCxx tubes, B65/B36. I’m also running 4 GEC L63 ST and I’d put these right up there with the other tubes I mentioned. Of course you only need two of these for your amp. I’ve been extremely impressed with all L63, 6J5’s I’ve tried. Ordered some more so I have quads and will also be trying TungSol and Raytheon soon. I’d be quite happy if I never ran a “regular “ 6SN7 again.



Which of these has a warm holographic nature,doesnt cost a ton,and isnt unobtanium?


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 3, 2019)

gibosi said:


> Since it appears that you are attempting to optimize your system to a set of headphones that are relatively new and not well known, I'm afraid you are largely on your own here... Keep rolling!



Yeah that seems to be the case. @Phantaminum and @BunnyNamedCraig as well as Zach are on this journey as well. I believe Phanta has a HEXFRED only on his GOTL,not sure about Bunny. Zach rolled out the same GZ34 as I at CanJam and have to agree it sounds really good w/ the Verite. Paired up with the EL8s and the RCA 6080s its an excellent,dynamic sound,but,whoops,there goes the 3D imaging....SIGH!

Oh and @Hansotek too,who I havent seen here in ages...Dave?!? Dave???


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Which of these has a warm holographic nature,doesnt cost a ton,and isnt unobtanium?


B36 are easy to find and not a bad price. ECC33 and ECC35 can often be found on eBay for good prices. 6J5's are very common and can be had quite cheaply. Even the GEC L63 are reasonably priced. $112 and you'd just need a 2 * 6J5 to 1 * 6SN7 adapter:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CV1067-L63...air-New-Old-Stock-Valve-Tube-M18/372260590937

Enjoy


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah that seems to be the case. @Phantaminum and @BunnyNamedCraig as well as Zach are on this journey as well. I believe Phanta has a HEXFRED only on his GOTL,not sure about Bunny. Zach rolled out the same GZ34 as I at CanJam and have to agree it sounds really good w/ the Verite. Paired up with the EL8s and the RCA 6080s its an excellent,dynamic sound,but,whoops,there goes the 3D imaging....SIGH!
> 
> Oh and @Hansotek too,who I havent seen here in ages...Dave?!? Dave???


I have the 4 tubes option, 2 power tube slots a driver and a rectifier. 

But yes I am also trying to achieve what your doing with the Verite as much as possible.

I’m doing a relatively big review of the “top” 3 ZMF’s- Verite, Aeolus and Autuer now. I will throw the revivew on this thread since I say what a lot of my tube rolls are. Hopefully the will let people know what I own and you’ll can ask me for suggestions if you want them


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 3, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> From my understanding my GZ34 is a good one.
> 
> Yeah im interested in a real "Bad Boy" but my eye isnt as well trained as others when it comes to spotting fakes. I have saved the post you made showing the differences for future reference.
> 
> ...



The ECC35 is ridiculous with this headphone. Warm, extremely wide, with the best holography I’ve heard in any tube. At times you can find the black base version for $75 - $100 a pop.

Fivre 6SL7 or 12SL7. Deep sound stage, warm, pulls some serious detail and microdynamics at lower volume all the way through higher volumes. Holographic. It’s more flat FR wise compared to most other tubes.

Bad Boys bring some serious bass and are warm. Very smooth and extended treble. Unlike the 6sn7w metal base, I don’t find them anywhere near the “W”s holography.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> The ECC35 is ridiculous with this headphone



Sorry,but those go in the C3G slot,or? Adaptor required?


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Sorry,but those go in the C3G slot,or? Adaptor required?



No adaptors required. Pop them in the 6SN7 slot and make sure it’s at 6v.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> No adaptors required. Pop them in the 6SN7 slot and make sure it’s at 6v.



Got it. Thanks.
Any particular ECC35 I should look for,or are they all created equal?


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Got it. Thanks.
> Any particular ECC35 I should look for,or are they all created equal?



In terms of sound I’m not sure. Never had the pleasure of owning the brown base as single can go for $200 a pop. 

Here’s what your looking for but in a black base:

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/galler...Brown+Base+1+-+Blackburn+Gt_+Britain.jpg.html

It has a 8 teeth on the top mica, 4 on each side protruding out and down. Bottom mica is round without teeth and smaller with a usual D-getter. All made by Mullard but may be relabeled as Adzam, Philips Miniwatt, or have Mullard in white/yellow labels. Keep an eye out for them on Hifishark.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Got it. Thanks.
> Any particular ECC35 I should look for,or are they all created equal?


The earlier versions will cost you an arm and a leg. But, I'm happy to report these tubes were consistently good no matter their year, construction or factory. It's not only I and @Phantaminum who think these are some of the best tubes ever made:
db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.mpl?searchtext=mullard+ecc35&SelectForumtubes=tubes


----------



## Phantaminum

Phantaminum said:


> In terms of sound I’m not sure. Never had the pleasure of owning the brown base as single can go for $200 a pop.
> 
> Here’s what your looking for but in a black base:
> 
> ...



Edit: Here’s a link to a great seller that I’ve dealt with before:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192824304425


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> The earlier versions will cost you an arm and a leg. But, I'm happy to report these tubes were consistently good no matter their year, construction or factory. It's not only I and @Phantaminum who think these are some of the best tubes ever made:
> db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.mpl?searchtext=mullard+ecc35&SelectForumtubes=tubes





Phantaminum said:


> Edit: Here’s a link to a great seller that I’ve dealt with before:
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192824304425



Great info and links. Thanks gentlemen.


----------



## leftside

According to this guy, it's the black base with cup getter that are the 1st version. I'm just about to take a look through my collection to see if I have these. The same guy has also posted pics from 1st version to 5th version:
http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.h...t=mullard+ecc35&r=&search_url=/cgi/search.mpl


----------



## leftside

Phantaminum said:


> Edit: Here’s a link to a great seller that I’ve dealt with before:
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192824304425


That's the 5th version from 1956. I have those and well worth having. Usually the tubes from this seller are ridiculously high, but in this case that's a fair price. (His GEC L63 coke bottle I purchased for half the price he's selling his for)


----------



## attmci (Mar 3, 2019)

leftside said:


> That's the 5th version from 1956. I have those and well worth having. Usually the tubes from this seller are ridiculously high, but in this case that's a fair price. (His GEC L63 coke bottle I purchased for half the price he's selling his for)


Because it branded brimar?

 I got one similar to this for $50. actually a pair for 100. 

Too much gain for GOTL (ECC35)  ??


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> Because it branded brimar?
> 
> I got one similar to this for $50. actually a pair for 100.
> 
> Too much gain for GOTL (ECC35)  ??


If you purchased them in 1984 then it doesn't count lol.

I think @UntilThen is running the ECC35 with no problem? I use them in my WA22, but with lower gain power tubes.


----------



## attmci

leftside said:


> If you purchased them in 1984 then it doesn't count lol.
> 
> I think @UntilThen is running the ECC35 with no problem? I use them in my WA22, but with lower gain power tubes.


The LCD-3f love these.


----------



## Phantaminum

attmci said:


> Because it branded brimar?
> 
> I got one similar to this for $50. actually a pair for 100.
> 
> Too much gain for GOTL (ECC35)  ??



Depends on how quiet your power tubes are. I had it paired with 6 x 6BX7s without any issues although one out of four has a slight hiss. All them of are quiet with anything other than the 6BX7s.


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> The LCD-3f love these.


Yes they do.


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> Because it branded brimar?
> 
> I got one similar to this for $50. actually a pair for 100.
> 
> Too much gain for GOTL (ECC35)  ??



Actually the same as a 6SL7 or 6C8G will work fine


----------



## gibosi (Mar 3, 2019)

leftside said:


> That's the 5th version from 1956. I have those and well worth having. Usually the tubes from this seller are ridiculously high, but in this case that's a fair price. (His GEC L63 coke bottle I purchased for half the price he's selling his for)



https://www.ebay.com/itm/192824304425

Very frankly, I believe that this is an ECC33, and not an ECC35:

https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf

According to this document, type code 5K = ECC33.

Given that the ECC33 and ECC35 have a very similar construction, it appears that this one is mislabeled. And this happened sometimes, especially with rebrands.

The production code, etched into the glass by Mullard at the time of manufacture, <5K1 B8D>, indicates this ECC33, revision #1, was manufactured in Blackburn, April, 1958.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/192824304425
> 
> Very frankly, I believe that this is an ECC33, and not an ECC35:
> 
> ...


Great info! I guess those mislabelled tubes are rarer and more expensive?


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Great info! I guess those mislabelled tubes are rarer and more expensive?



Not necessarily. After all, most people don't know that they are mislabeled. And very frankly, I have picked up some great deals because the tube was mislabeled and the seller didn't know what he had.


----------



## leftside

I also need to wear my glasses more often when looking at these tubes. I thought it was a ‘6’ (1956)  not an ‘8’


----------



## gibosi

My ECC35 has the production code <RU4 B8A>, where RU = ECC35, revision #4, manufactured at Blackburn, in January, 1958. 

So when you are considering these tubes, which look almost identical, remember that <5K> is an ECC33 and <RU> is an ECC35.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/192824304425
> 
> Very frankly, I believe that this is an ECC33, and not an ECC35:



So Im guessing I dont want an ECC33?
Expect a few "is this a real ECC35" PMs


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> If you purchased them in 1984 then it doesn't count lol.
> 
> I think @UntilThen is running the ECC35 with no problem? I use them in my WA22, but with lower gain power tubes.



I love ECC35 with 6x6bx7gt. Could have been end of tube rolling for me.

I send my ECC35 to Glenn for him to listen.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> So Im guessing I dont want an ECC33?
> Expect a few "is this a real ECC35" PMs



I've never had a chance to try an ECC33, so I have no opinion. And further, I don't know if $125 is a good price for an ECC33.

But again, it all depends on personal preferences and system synergy. I am sure that in the right system the ECC33 is superb. The real question is how will it sound in your system, especially with your headphones. And again, the only way to know is to try one.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

So is 


UntilThen said:


> I love ECC35 with 6x6bx7gt. Could have been end of tube rolling for me.
> 
> I send my ECC35 to Glenn for him to listen.



Is a good price on one of these ? 

https://tubeworldexpress.com/collec...tt-by-mullard-brown-base-gray-plates-nos-1961


----------



## UntilThen

FunctionalDoc said:


> So is
> 
> 
> Is a good price on one of these ?
> ...



Unfortunately that’s the price you are expected to pay for a good condition ECC35 these days.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Unfortunately that’s the price you are expected to pay for a good condition ECC35 these days.



I gave $50 for mine on eBay. But it wasn't NIB/NOS and all the graphics had been rubbed off. However, I could see the production code and thought that for $50, why not?


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> So Im guessing I dont want an ECC33?


I don't think there's too much of a price difference between ECC33 and ECC35, but I haven't checked for a while. I have both, and to my ears the ECC35 is like an ECC33 but with more gain.


----------



## attmci (Mar 3, 2019)

gibosi said:


> I've never had a chance to try an ECC33, so I have no opinion. And further, I don't know if $125 is a good price for an ECC33.
> 
> But again, it all depends on personal preferences and system synergy. I am sure that in the right system the ECC33 is superb. The real question is how will it sound in your system, especially with your headphones. And again, the only way to know is to try one.


ECC33 is more expensive (similar to 6SN7 vs 6SL7).

Some old codes by a guy will show up soon LOL:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ecc33-ecc35-tube-addicts.558352/page-3#post-9019614

The problem now is shall we trust the codes or the structure of the tube.


----------



## attmci (Mar 3, 2019)

gibosi said:


> I gave $50 for mine on eBay. But it wasn't NIB/NOS and all the graphics had been rubbed off. However, I could see the production code and thought that for $50, why not?


Purchasing in 1978 does not count as Left said. JK.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> ECC33 is more expensive (similar to 6SN7 vs 6SL7).
> 
> Some old codes by a guy will show up soon LOL:
> 
> ...



Always trust the codes. These were etched into the glass at the time the tube was assembled and evacuated.  And then, if there is still some uncertainty, construction differences can often be of help. 

Further, while the rest of the Philips universe began to use the same codes in 1948, Mullard didn't follow suit until 1955. And therefore, Mullard tubes manufactured prior to 1955 use an internal Mullard code for which I have yet to find the key. So it is very hard to date Mullard production prior to 1955, and construction differences are often all we have to go on.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> I gave $50 for mine on eBay. But it wasn't NIB/NOS and all the graphics had been rubbed off. However, I could see the production code and thought that for $50, why not?



Good pick up. I spend a lot on tubes but when I got to ECC33 and ECC35, I slowed down and waited for one with a good price to show up. I got my Haltron branded ECC33 from an Aussie seller. It's NOS NIB with the Haltron logo. I remember I paid about $100 for it. The Mullard ECC35 I bought off LJ for about $90 - she used it in the EC Zana Deux.

Leftside is correct in saying that ECC33 and ECC35 are similar in tone except for the latter higher gain. That said, I much prefer the ECC35. It's lusher and has more body. Could be that it's a run in tube whereas the ECC33 is still new. I haven't really burn all my tubes. Will probably take more than my lifetime.


----------



## whirlwind

Holy crap.....I am 3 pages behind since yesterday!

Funny, I was just talking to Starvos about these tubes yesterday morning.


----------



## mordy

Feel a little left out because I don't have any ECC33 or ECC35 tubes although I have a number of 6SL7 and 12SL7 tubes...
Anyhow,
Have been using the Visseux 6N7G with a pair of EL8 as drivers, and a pair of 6H13C as power tubes with great results.
I think rnros used a very similar combination but with Cetron 6336B as power tubes. Switched to the Cetrons, but the bass became too hard hitting and too strong with the Visseux 6N7G.
Then I reminded myself that rnros used a Fivre 6N7GT with his setup. Since I have a Visseux 6SN7GT which probably is similar, I switched out the ST Vissseux 6N7G for the tubular Visseux 6N7GT.
This turned out to be a great combination as well, and the bass is now  proportionate even though the Cetrons have more punch than the 6H13C. First impression is also a great and sweet mid range.
This is another winner - the synergy is there.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Feel a little left out because I don't have any ECC33 or ECC35 tubes although I have a number of 6SL7 and 12SL7 tubes...
> Anyhow,
> Have been using the Visseux 6N7G with a pair of EL8 as drivers, and a pair of 6H13C as power tubes with great results.
> I think rnros used a very similar combination but with Cetron 6336B as power tubes. Switched to the Cetrons, but the bass became too hard hitting and too strong with the Visseux 6N7G.
> ...


Same feeling here. I thought I can get a broken rectifier tube for $$, but now it's $$$$$:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WESTERN-EL...=item1a7741ab65:g:Wp8AAOSwfCZceccO:rk:33:pf:0

Crazy...............


----------



## rosgr63 (Mar 4, 2019)

Here is an old thread for the ECC33/ECC35 addicts:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ecc33-ecc35-tube-addicts.558352/

I  agree with Ken system synergy and personal preferences are a key factor.

There are a few different types of them so that counts too.

PS I see it was mentioned above, sorry for  repeating the thread.
The ECC35 is one of the best drivers for the ECBA


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Same feeling here. I thought I can get a broken rectifier tube for $$, but now it's $$$$$:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/WESTERN-EL...=item1a7741ab65:g:Wp8AAOSwfCZceccO:rk:33:pf:0
> 
> Crazy...............


Hi attmci,
In my book a broken guide pin is just a minor inconvenience when inserting it. Usually you can see where the guide notch was located and then I just put a little paper label arrow to indicate the location.
Due to tough new sockets I have a couple of tubes where I broke the broke guide pins. However, if I receive a tube with a missing guide pin that was not advertised it is a good bargaining point....
Here is a pair of graphite 6080 tubes sold as leaking but I thought that if the tube leaks the getter flash turns white - what do you think?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-6080WB...h=item52191c6600:g:VcoAAOSwEUdcVKsO:rk:4:pf:0


----------



## Phantaminum

rosgr63 said:


> Here is an old thread for the ECC33/ECC35 addicts:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ecc33-ecc35-tube-addicts.558352/
> 
> I  agree with Ken system synergy and personal preferences are a key factor.
> ...



It’s really a phenomenal tube. With its expansive sound stage, holography, tone, timbre, bass, and detail retrieval. It just checks off all of the boxes. I think the Fivre beats it in detail retrieval but the Mullard is nipping at its heels. Luckily for us the ECC35 isn’t looked for by many enthusiast as much as the others so you can find them at times for a low price. The ECC33 on the other hand.


----------



## leftside

From most sellers, you can usually purchase tubes with broken pin guides for quite cheap. Purchased some of my GEC 6080's for super cheap prices due to broken pin guides.


----------



## whirlwind

If you have broken pin guides you can get these to make sure you get the tube inserted correctly in your amp


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> In my book a broken guide pin is just a minor inconvenience when inserting it. Usually you can see where the guide notch was located and then I just put a little paper label arrow to indicate the location.
> Due to tough new sockets I have a couple of tubes where I broke the broke guide pins. However, if I receive a tube with a missing guide pin that was not advertised it is a good bargaining point....
> Here is a pair of graphite 6080 tubes sold as leaking but I thought that if the tube leaks the getter flash turns white - what do you think?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-6080WB...h=item52191c6600:g:VcoAAOSwEUdcVKsO:rk:4:pf:0





mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> In my book a broken guide pin is just a minor inconvenience when inserting it. Usually you can see where the guide notch was located and then I just put a little paper label arrow to indicate the location.
> Due to tough new sockets I have a couple of tubes where I broke the broke guide pins. However, if I receive a tube with a missing guide pin that was not advertised it is a good bargaining point....
> Here is a pair of graphite 6080 tubes sold as leaking but I thought that if the tube leaks the getter flash turns white - what do you think?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-6080WB...h=item52191c6600:g:VcoAAOSwEUdcVKsO:rk:4:pf:0


I can repair tube without guide pin but cannot repair a tube tested leak or shorted. Three 5998 in my trash bin now.


----------



## attmci

Phantaminum said:


> It’s really a phenomenal tube. With its expansive sound stage, holography, tone, timbre, bass, and detail retrieval. It just checks off all of the boxes. I think the Fivre beats it in detail retrieval but the Mullard is nipping at its heels. Luckily for us the ECC35 isn’t looked for by many enthusiast as much as the others so you can find them at times for a low price. The ECC33 on the other hand.


I like ECC33, 35, and Fivre 6SN7GT(A).


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> I can repair tube without guide pin but cannot repair a tube tested leak or shorted. Three 5998 in my trash bin now.


What happened to the 5998 tubes?


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> What happened to the 5998 tubes?


Shorted or leak................


----------



## mordy

Just for my own information, are there any visible clues to a tube that leaks?


----------



## attmci (Mar 4, 2019)

mordy said:


> Just for my own information, are there any visible clues to a tube that leaks?



Nope. You have to test it. If the gas leak light is on, you'd better get rid of the tube.

This has nothing to do with tubes, but demonstrated personal preference matters when comparing different DACs:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/24/17273218/chord-hugo-2-review-dac-headphone-amplifier

https://www.themasterswitch.com/review-chord-hugo-2


----------



## UsoppNoKami

attmci said:


> I like ECC33, 35, and Fivre 6SN7GT(A).



I have a pair of ECC33 in my Freya preamp. Generally like it better than the TS BGRP as the latter's treble sparkle doesn't go well with my rock / metal stuff unless I swap to LCD2Cs. When I get hold of my GOTL, besides C3g i will be rolling a ECC32, exciting times ahead 



attmci said:


> This has nothing to do with tubes, but demonstrated personal preference matters when comparing different DACs:
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/24/17273218/chord-hugo-2-review-dac-headphone-amplifier
> 
> https://www.themasterswitch.com/review-chord-hugo-2



On that note, I did a A/B of an older AudioGD Master-11 Singularity (2017) against a Hugo2 TT with M Scaler. Ended up buying the M-11S, the sound was much more to my tastes, I couldn't bring myself to love the Chord stack, tho I didn't dislike it either.


----------



## JazzVinyl

May the Glow be with you...


----------



## mordy

10A of more glow....


----------



## Monsterzero

@2359glenn of course you were right.
The Meze Empyrean sounds phenomenal thru my GOTL with Chatham 6336bs in place. Fantastic!


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Feel a little left out because I don't have any ECC33 or ECC35 tubes although I have a number of 6SL7 and 12SL7 tubes...
> Anyhow,
> Have been using the Visseux 6N7G with a pair of EL8 as drivers, and a pair of 6H13C as power tubes with great results.
> I think rnros used a very similar combination but with Cetron 6336B as power tubes. Switched to the Cetrons, but the bass became too hard hitting and too strong with the Visseux 6N7G.
> ...



Hi mordy,
Thanks for posting the link to the tube shop in Taiwan, great find. 
Received both the VSX 6N7G and 6N7GT... And the 6N7GT is a really fine tube. Top tier, IMO.
And yes, using it with the CTN 6336Bs. So good that I haven't bothered with the 6N7G yet.
In trio with the EL8? I'll give it a try. 

Highly recommended for the GOTL as a solo driver in the 6SN7 slot.
1953 military batch with metal base (painted black), 6.3V 800mA heater and 35 amplification factor.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> @2359glenn of course you were right.
> The Meze Empyrean sounds phenomenal thru my GOTL with Chatham 6336bs in place. Fantastic!



6336 perfect for low impedance phones.
You can also try four 6AS7s or four 6080s i you have four of the same.


----------



## JazzVinyl

rnros said:


> Hi mordy,
> Thanks for posting the link to the tube shop in Taiwan, great find.
> Received both the VSX 6N7G and 6N7GT... And the 6N7GT is a really fine tube. Top tier, IMO.
> And yes, using it with the CTN 6336Bs. So good that I haven't bothered with the 6N7G yet.
> ...



Alright, rnros and Mordy!!

I am going to give the Visseaux 6N7GT a whirl.  I just paid the TW shop for one.  I have been so pleased with the 1940's Visseaux 6N7G that I cannot resist trying this NOS  1953 Military Batch, 6N7GT w/metal base.  

Bet I will love it  

Appreciate!


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> You can also try four 6AS7s or four 6080s i you have four of the same.



Or for those of you who like to mix and match...  I have often thought it might be interesting to run two GEC 6080 and two Bendix... Or maybe two GEC and two Mullard... but unfortunately, it seems I have too many tubes...  and not enough time... lol


----------



## Monsterzero

Unfortunately I dont get to keep the Empyrean,otherwise I'd be looking into other 6336s and/or the above recommended tube combos.
I just recorded a video review of the Empyrean which I still need to edit and upload. Its a very fine sounding headphone and with the 6336s,sounds great thru the GOTL. However it sounds *very* similar to the Verite,and outside of comfort,speed and smoothness,the Verite is a better headphone IMO....and its cheaper.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> 6336 perfect for low impedance phones.
> You can also try four 6AS7s or four 6080s i you have four of the same.



I find that with high impedance cans....4x 6AS7G/6080's deteriorate from the sound.  Bass sounds more powerful to me via 2x 6AS7G's (or equiv.).


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> I find that with high impedance cans....4x 6AS7G/6080's deteriorate from the sound.  Bass sounds more powerful to me via 2x 6AS7G's (or equiv.).




Yes, it works best with low impedance headphones like some of the planar headphones.....sounds great with ZMF Ori.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> I find that with high impedance cans....4x 6AS7G/6080's deteriorate from the sound.  Bass sounds more powerful to me via 2x 6AS7G's (or equiv.).



These are low impedance phones 32 ohms.
The 6336 probably sounds better but it is something to try if you have the tubes.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 6, 2019)

Yeah,well I just discovered that with 6336 tubes the GOTL takes the K701 to ridiculous heights...I mean it sounds like an entirely different headphone.
On a related topic,I just put my Gilmore Lite Mk 2 up for sale,as I now have a vastly superior sounding alternative to drive my low ohm headphones.
Thanks Glenn for making such a great amp!

EDIT: Can anyone explain the science behind why the 6336 tube works so well with low ohm headphones?


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,well I just discovered that with 6336 tubes the GOTL takes the K701 to ridiculous heights...I mean it sounds like an entirely different headphone.
> On a related topic,I just put my Gilmore Lite Mk 2 up for sale,as I now have a vastly superior sounding alternative to drive my low ohm headphones.
> Thanks Glenn for making such a great amp!
> 
> EDIT: Can anyone explain the science behind why the 6336 tube works so well with low ohm headphones?



The 6336 is a high current low impedance tube.
Hey Monster these tubes are Monsters look at them. And not that expensive because most amps can't use them.
They draw to much current for most amps.


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Mar 6, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> The 6336 is a high current low impedance tube.
> Hey Monster these tubes are Monsters look at them. And not that expensive because most amps can't use them.
> They draw to much current for most amps.


Beginner question : Is a 6336 tube a driver tube so would need 1 tube or is it a power tube and  would use 2  or 4 ?  If it is a power tube what would the voltage switch  be set on?


Good source and brand for the 6336 tube and a good price ?

What is K701 tube that Monsterzero  and where does it go  and how many do I need  need?

I have pair Mr. Speakers Aeon Closed and wondering what is the best setup for planar's with say 30-50 Ohms impedance ?

Thanks


----------



## whirlwind

The 6336 tubes are power tubes and you can only use two tubes because they are 5 amps each.

The K701 I believe is a headphone, Doc.

The 6336 tubes would be a good match for your Aeon closed.


----------



## rosgr63

701 are made by AKG of Austria


----------



## FunctionalDoc

whirlwind said:


> The 6336 tubes are power tubes and you can only use two tubes because they are 5 amps each.
> 
> The K701 I believe is a headphone, Doc.
> 
> The 6336 tubes would be a good match for your Aeon closed.


Thaks Joe,

Would my 13D1 Brimar Driver tube be fine with the 2  6336'S ? Is any version of  6336 be OK is one better then another ?


----------



## Phantaminum

FunctionalDoc said:


> Thaks Joe,
> 
> Would my 13D1 Brimar Driver tube be fine with the 2  6336'S ? Is any version of  6336 be OK is one better then another ?



13D1 is a fine driver tube to pair up with the 6336Bs. Really did a great job running my Aeon Flow Open. 

I do have an extra pair of Cetron 6336Bs. Shoot me a PM in case you're interested.


----------



## mordy (Mar 6, 2019)

FunctionalDoc said:


> Thaks Joe,
> 
> Would my 13D1 Brimar Driver tube be fine with the 2  6336'S ? Is any version of  6336 be OK is one better then another ?


The Cetron 6336B are supposed to be the best ones. Other 6336B tubes (Raytheon and RCA among others) don’t have the same amount of support rods as the Cetrons.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Hey Monster these tubes are Monsters look at them.



Yeah,I can sell my home gym now. All I need to do is do arm curls with the 6336s...They weigh a ton.



whirlwind said:


> The K701 I believe is a headphone, Doc.



Correct.


----------



## Monsterzero

In case anyone here is interested,heres my Empyrean review,including comparisons to the Verite.


----------



## Phantaminum

Wanted to update this thread with Rich’s information.

For anyone that’s looking for the Cetron 6336Bs you can get a hold of Rich Gross at Rell.com. I think they’re company bought out Cetron (or possibly renamed) but they sell them for $30 each not including shipping.

Email: richg@rell.com 

If he’s no longer there you can click on this link and get a quote:

https://www.relltubes.com/search-results.html?q=6336&submit=Search&SType=Product

Hope that helps.


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Mar 6, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> In case anyone here is interested,heres my Empyrean review,including comparisons to the Verite.



Great Review . So is your DAC an R2R DAC  which model ?


----------



## Monsterzero

FunctionalDoc said:


> Great Review . So is your DAC an R2R dac ?



Thanks. Yes I have the Vinshine R2R Reference 1,which not many members know about. 

http://singaporehifi.blogspot.com/2017/01/vinshine-audio-dac-r2r-ref.html

Compared to Audio GD R2R DACs and a vintage EAD DSP-7000 MkIII I used to own,the Vinshine has an airier sound,with less of a overwhelming warmth than the other two. Very nice staging and deep tight bass,with good slam. The EAD hit harder,but overall I prefer the Vinshine. When I win the lottery I will look into the Denafrips Terminator,the Yggy 2 and the Holo Spring offerings,but for now im very content with the Vinshine.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Wanted to update this thread with Rich’s information.
> 
> For anyone that’s looking for the Cetron 6336Bs you can get a hold of Rich Gross at Rell.com. I think they’re company bought out Cetron (or possibly renamed) but they sell them for $30 each not including shipping.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that! I filled out the online form and received a prompt response from Rich. He has NOS Cetron tubes for 30.00 each. Ordered a pair. Will compare them to the Chatham 6336.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> In case anyone here is interested,heres my Empyrean review,including comparisons to the Verite.





The way that you swap pads on these headphones is brilliant!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks for that! I filled out the online form and received a prompt response from Rich. He has NOS Cetron tubes for 30.00 each. Ordered a pair. Will compare them to the Chatham 6336.


That’s an excellent price... I’m glad you took advantage of it. You should do the same @FunctionalDoc !


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> The way that you swap pads on these headphones is brilliant!



Agreed. Campfire Cascades are the same way.
I was talking to Zach of ZMF the other day and I told him "Man I love your headphones,but swapping pads is a major PITA"
Heres hoping that in future designs more HP makers will adopt such a practical and easy method of swapping pads.


----------



## whirlwind

It is funny, I have a pair of ZNF Ori headphones that I have had for at least two years now, maybe more.
They came with two sets of ear pads....they sounded so good with the leathers pads i have not even tried the other set.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> It is funny, I have a pair of ZNF Ori headphones that I have had for at least two years now, maybe more.
> They came with two sets of ear pads....they sounded so good with the leathers pads i have not even tried the other set.



Yeah,I avoid rolling pads on ZMF headphones if at all possible. I find the pair I prefer and let it ride. Def not conducive to pad rolling.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,I avoid rolling pads on ZMF headphones if at all possible. I find the pair I prefer and let it ride. Def not conducive to pad rolling.



I watched a video by Zach once, he made it look so easy  

I would have tried it if I had not liked the sound, but they sounded great....usually when I clean the ear pads on the Ori, I hit them with a thin coat of leather conditioner, keeps them looking good and feeling soft.


----------



## attmci (Mar 7, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,I avoid rolling pads on ZMF headphones if at all possible. I find the pair I prefer and let it ride. Def not conducive to pad rolling.


NO.
You have to roll the pad when you install a  new  tube in your GOTL to achieve the ultimate goal.
































JK


----------



## Phantaminum

attmci said:


> NO.
> You have to roll the pad when you install a  new  tube in your GOTL to achieve your goal.



I find that rolling pads onto the tubes makes a discernible difference in sound. They also make for great ear warmers once, when cold outside, you take them off and apply them to your head.


----------



## attmci

Phantaminum said:


> I find that rolling pads onto the tubes makes a discernible difference in sound. They also make for great ear warmers once, when cold outside, you take them off and apply them to your head.


So true. You are getting there.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> I find that rolling pads onto the tubes makes a discernible difference in sound. They also make for great ear warmers once, when cold outside, you take them off and apply them to your head.



What pads are you using?
Every time I put different pads onto tubes they either melt or I have an instant hibachi where an amp used to reside.


----------



## heliosphann

I had a pair of Brainwavz velour round pads on my last Ori and they really made the frequency response far more linear. It was a very significant change from the stock pads.


----------



## attmci (Mar 7, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> What pads are you using?
> Every time I put different pads onto tubes they either melt or I have an instant hibachi where an amp used to reside.



Who asked you to put the pads onto your tubes?






It will definitely shorten the life span  of your tubes. And won't make any improvement in sound unless you put the heat=treated pads back to your headphones.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> Who asked you to put the pads onto your tubes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was an apparently poor attempt at humor


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> It was an apparently poor attempt at humor



Everybody knows you need to wrap your tubes in bacon!


----------



## mordy

Maybe this is funnier:





No - not this one again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




All right - something more intellectual: A vacuum tube chess set:




And, appropriately, the King and Queen are ST (Shoulder Type) tubes.....


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Everybody knows you need to wrap your tubes in bacon!



And cheese.


----------



## attmci

Clear top 5998!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/183718048773


----------



## FunctionalDoc

2359glenn said:


> These are low impedance phones 32 ohms.
> The 6336 probably sounds better but it is something to try if you have the tubes.


Due the 2 6636's tubes go in the normal power tube slots when running planar headphones?


----------



## Phantaminum

FunctionalDoc said:


> Due the 2 6636's tubes go in the normal power tube slots when running planar headphones?



Yes sir. 

If you only have two power slots then just drop them in there. If you have 6, as long as you put them in the same row it doesn't matter which one you pick. I usually put them all the way in the back because of the nuclear power heat they give off.


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Mar 9, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Yes sir.
> 
> If you only have two power slots then just drop them in there. If you have 6, as long as you put them in the same row it doesn't matter which one you pick. I usually put them all the way in the back because of the nuclear power heat they give off.


Thanks they are big and heavy . Thanks for the contact with Rich I just  got them today and was wondering they are big heavy tubes to put out the power. The supplier of these tubes was great . Thanks Ramses


----------



## Monsterzero

What is the difference between a 12SN7 and 12SL7?


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> What is the difference between a 12SN7 and 12SL7?



12SL7s have a higher amplification amount compared to the 12SN7. You'll have to turn the knob up higher on the 12SN7 to meet the same volume as the 12SL7. This in turn may bring in noise as it amplifies everything else from all other tubes. You'll have a much better chance of a quieter 12SN7 paired with 6BX7s than a 12SL7. Most anything you buy will probably be very quiet with 6336Bs.


----------



## mordy

What is the difference between these tubes?
6H13C
6N13P
6N5S
6H5C
6N5PJ
6N13PT
Answer: They are all basically the same and 6AS7 equivalents. The first four are Russian and the last two Chinese tubes.
The reason for the the different nomenclature of the Russian tubes depends on how you translate the Cyrillian letters. Then you have military and civilian designations but as far as I am concerned I think that they all were made for the military.
The Russian tubes are very quiet and sound great in the GOTL. I only have one Chinese tube. Although it puts on a spectacular tube glow it does not get much love soundwise (based on my reading impressions.)
The Russian tubes still exist in large quantities although they are not being made any more. With careful shopping you can get good buys. And because they are inexpensive and readily available and thus a reliable supply, a lot of tube amp manufacturers use them today.
The Svetlana 6AS7 equivalents are very quiet. Just got a pair of 6H5C tubes from 1961 and they sound great. It will take some effort to tell the difference in sound between these and the Svetlana 6H13C (if any).
A little tube trivia:
The Svetlana were modelled on the RCA 6AS7G - RCA sold machinery and production know how to the Svetlana factory in 1937.
Some Russian tube sellers boast of gold grids in the tubes (not these tubes though). There are miniscule amounts of gold in some tubes but gold grids were introduced by GE; however, GE never made a big fuss about it.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> What is the difference between these tubes?
> 6H13C
> 6N13P
> 6N5S
> ...



Mordy, I believe you finally got a NU 6F8G. How do you like it? Sorry if I missed your previous post.


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 10, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> I had a pair of Brainwavz velour round pads on my last Ori and they really made the frequency response far more linear. It was a very significant change from the stock pads.




What Zach did with that fostex driver on the Ori is quite remarkable...the Ori is my most fun headphone for sure.

I am still rockin that LCD 3 pf with the GEL3N amp in one tube mode and the GS-X mk2 as a pre amp to it. This is really enjoyable, very musical and no fatigue what so ever.

I am going to get rid of my HD800 as I just do not reach for it much anymore, for the genre of music I listen to I like the sound with more weight and meat to it.....will probably add another ZMF at some point.

Waiting for Glenn's impressions of Verite on GEL3N.

I hope it is OK to post this here as I have taken this from one of Zach's videos from Canjam
I love the look of this Burl wood!


----------



## 2359glenn

Maybe you can ask Zach how they sound on the EL3N amp now


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Maybe you can ask Zach how they sound on the EL3N amp now



I guess I forgot about Zach having the GEL3N amp.....I will shoot him a pm


----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> What Zach did with that fostex driver on the Ori is quite remarkable...the Ori is my most fun headphone for sure.
> 
> I am still rockin that LCD 3 pf with the GEL3N amp in one tube mode and the GS-X mk2 as a pre amp to it. This is really enjoyable, very musical and no fatigue what so ever.
> 
> ...



Whirlwind,

I don’t have the GEL3N but the Verite on the GOTL sounds fantastic. If you’re looking for weight to notes and have planar like speeds this headphone will definitely fit the bill. It may even replace the LCD-3 except in sub bass extension.


----------



## mordy (Mar 10, 2019)

I have been running the GOTL with Visseaux 6N7GT and EL8 drivers, and now a pair of Svetlana 6H5C with very good results.
This morning I added another pair of Svetlana 6H13C power tubes. On the plus side this combination is the most quiet I have heard on my system - with no music playing and the volume to the max - not a peep, I mean hum.
But....the presentation became darker and less dynamic, more dull and heavy - it looks like a single pair of Svetlanas sounds better with these triplet tubes.


----------



## mordy (Mar 10, 2019)

attmci said:


> Mordy, I believe you finally got a NU 6F8G. How do you like it? Sorry if I missed your previous post.


Hi attmci (why do I always feel like typing in verizon?),
I have two National Union 6F8G, one a Philco (thanks to Glenn) rebrand and one a NU. The Philco is NOS and sounds a little better. Then I have three NU 6C8G as well; this tube sound almost as good and is a true bargain.
I like the NU tubes very much in my amp, and before I chanced upon the VSX 6N7G/GT it was my preferred driver. Somehow I prefer it over the Tung Sol 6/12SN7GT and black base Sylvania 6SN7W which all get a lot of praise.
The TS and Syl tubes I have may not be in the greatest shape (don't really know), but to me the National Union 6F8G sounds better with the tubes I tried it with.


----------



## attmci (Mar 10, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi attmci (why do I always feel like typing in verizon?),
> I have two National Union 6F8G, one a Philco (thanks to Glenn) rebrand and one a NU. The Philco is NOS and sounds a little better. Then I have three NU 6C8G as well; this tube sound almost as good and is a true bargain.
> I like the NU tubes very much in my amp, and before I chanced upon the VSX 6N7G/GT it was my preferred driver. Somehow I prefer it over the Tung Sol 6/12SN7GT and black base Sylvania 6SN7W which all get a lot of praise.
> The TS and Syl tubes I have may not be in the greatest shape (don't really know), but to me the National Union 6F8G sounds better with the tubes I tried it with.


Thanks, Mordy. This confirms that different amps like different tubes. Both you and Ken like the NU 6f8g on GOTL. But I don't think it's anything special on my amp.

BTW, only TS and NU  made those round plate 6F8Gs. On the other hand, all 6C8Gs have round plate.

I do like the TS RP 6F8G (due to the 3D-like sound). I also love the lush sound RCA 6F8Gs.

Everyone hears and sees things differently what may sound good to you can sound harsh to anothers ears.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Thanks, Mordy. This confirms that different amps like different tubes. Both you and Ken like the NU 6f8g on GOTL. But I don't think it's anything special on my amp.
> 
> BTW, only TS and NU  made those round plate 6F8Gs. On the other hand, all 6C8Gs have round plate.
> 
> I do like the TS RP 6F8G (due to the 3D-like sound).


This one of the truths that I have been convinced of, namely that the same tube sounds different in different amps. Hence "best tube" is only meaningful in reference to a specific amp.
I remember reading recently that the Svetlana 6H13C isn't worth owning. I am sure that that person is right regarding his amp, but in my GOTL it sings.
Re the Tung Sol I have a pair of the 6F8G but with flat plates instead of round plates. However, people say that they sound about the same. This tube wins the beauty award with the contrasting black RF coating and silver flashing and beautiful shape:





It is possible that certain tubes sound good in any setting and certainly it is related to the cost of the tube - the above is NOT TRUE and said in jest.
Some expensive tubes are expensive because of marketing hype and greed. They also must have some characteristics that are easy to identify for a novice like a red base or the designation of "bad boy" Sylvanias (this is a joke as well - most of the tubes advertised as bbs aren't) so that a seller with surplus stock can increase the price.
And btw, I missed a relabeled $3 TS 6F8G the other day - oh well....


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Thanks, Mordy. This confirms that different amps like different tubes. Both you and Ken like the NU 6f8g on GOTL. But I don't think it's anything special on my amp.
> 
> BTW, only TS and NU  made those round plate 6F8Gs. On the other hand, all 6C8Gs have round plate.
> 
> ...


Hi attmci,
_"Everyone hears and sees things differently what may sound good to you can sound harsh to anothers ears."_
There is something else i learned from interacting with forum members: Despite having different associated equipment, hearing and tastes, there are many people that hear the same way you hear and you can in good conscience advocate for certain tube combinations with a specific amp without worrying that you are totally off the mark.
This consensus of opinion was a big surprise to me and in the beginning of my tube rolling I did not think that it was possible.
But it is possible, and comparing notes and experiences with others will enhance your own listening experience.
And tubes that weren't anything special suddenly sound great in combination with some other specific tubes. That's why i am not keen on selling tubes - who knows what great sounding combination somebody will discover tomorrow?
It's all about synergy....


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> Thanks, Mordy. This confirms that different amps like different tubes. Both you and Ken like the NU 6f8g on GOTL. But I don't think it's anything special on my amp.
> 
> BTW, only TS and NU  made those round plate 6F8Gs. On the other hand, all 6C8Gs have round plate.
> 
> ...


Same with my amp with those tubes mentioned. Very good tubes. Tier 2, with the Mazda 6N7's, but not quite up there with the Mullard ECCxx or GEC L63/6J5. 

Still, I really enjoy reading everyone's opinions on these tubes, and appreciate all the great photos that people post.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Some expensive tubes are expensive because of marketing hype and greed.


And also rarity, condition, with original box, test results, etc. The marketing hype was especially true of some of the tubes of the 1960's. For example the Mullard 12AX7 10M "master series". The construction is exactly the same as their "ordinary" tubes but come with a fancy box and lettering on the tubes - and an inflated price. Also the Genelex "Gold Lion" KT88. Exactly the same construction as the "ordinary" GEC KT88.


----------



## mordy

I seem to remember that the Mullard 10M series was engineered for extra long service life - 10,000 hours? 
Not that extra long life tubes necessarily sound better, but could be built better.
GE 5 star tubes (7,500 hrs), and 10K tubes like Amperex Premium Quality (PQ) and Russian DR tubes come to mind - I am sure that there are others.
The old style ST tubes may have been built for 10K hours.....


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Same with my amp with those tubes mentioned. Very good tubes. Tier 2, with the Mazda 6N7's, but not quite up there with the Mullard ECCxx or GEC L63/6J5.
> 
> Still, I really enjoy reading everyone's opinions on these tubes, and appreciate all the great photos that people post.



Should try to get a 6J5 to C3g adapter try those L63 in the 300B amp. They might not drive a 300B properly though as they are the same as 1/2 a 6SN7.
They are wonderful in the OTL


----------



## attmci

And don't forget the the law of diminishing returns. You cannot tell the difference of some tubes when rolling unless you are using some world's most expensive gear.

Enjoy the music!


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Should try to get a 6J5 to C3g adapter try those L63 in the 300B amp. They might not drive a 300B properly though as they are the same as 1/2 a 6SN7.
> They are wonderful in the OTL


Oh boy. Now that could be something. The Woo WA22 takes the 2 * 6J5 to 1 * 6SN7 adapter (because as you say - you need two 6J5's for an "equivalent" 6SN7). Maybe I could do the same for the 300B? See if I can get a 2 * 6J5 to 1 * 6SN7 adapter.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Oh boy. Now that could be something. The Woo WA22 takes the 2 * 6J5 to 1 * 6SN7 adapter (because as you say - you need two 6J5's for an "equivalent" 6SN7). Maybe I could do the same for the 300B? See if I can get a 2 * 6J5 to 1 * 6SN7 adapter.


Is this it?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-6J5-6J5-...040699?hash=item48b158ee3b:g:2cwAAOSwKLxbYVSG




Would it work in the GOTL?


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Is this it?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-6J5-6J5-...040699?hash=item48b158ee3b:g:2cwAAOSwKLxbYVSG
> Would it work in the GOTL?


That's right. I specially modded mine. (used black tape around the edges to match my amp color lol).

Glenn uses the L63 in his OTL, but I'm not sure if he uses an adapter? I presume that adapter would work just fine. That's what I was planning on using when I get an GOTL. And luckily with the GOTL you only need two, not like most amps which need a quad of those tubes.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> That's right. I specially modded mine. (used black tape around the edges to match my amp color lol).
> 
> Glenn uses the L63 in his OTL, but I'm not sure if he uses an adapter? I presume that adapter would work just fine. That's what I was planning on using when I get an GOTL. And luckily with the GOTL you only need two, not like most amps which need a quad of those tubes.


What would be better - using a dual adapter in the single 6SN7 driver socket, or using two single adapters in the the C3g sockets if I choose the L63?


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> What would be better - using a dual adapter in the single 6SN7 driver socket, or using two single adapters in the the C3g sockets if I choose the L63?


Ha - great question! I'll let Glenn answer that one. Or 2 dual adapters in the C3g slots?!  

With my 300B, I was thinking 2 dual adapters for the C3g slots (1 dual adapter in each C3g slot). But, that also raises the question: Can I use 6SN7's with the 300B amp by using 6SN7 to C3g adapters?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> What would be better - using a dual adapter in the single 6SN7 driver socket, or using two single adapters in the the C3g sockets if I choose the L63?



Use the dual adapter in the 6SN7 socket. It has the proper cathode resistor for a 6SN7 and 6J5.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Ha - great question! I'll let Glenn answer that one. Or 2 dual adapters in the C3g slots?!
> 
> With my 300B, I was thinking 2 dual adapters for the C3g slots (1 dual adapter in each C3g slot). But, that also raises the question: Can I use 6SN7's with the 300B amp by using 6SN7 to C3g adapters?



After thinking about this the 6J5 would work but not the right cathode resistor but the heater current of the 6J5 will be ok with the 300B amp


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Use the dual adapter in the 6SN7 socket. It has the proper cathode resistor for a 6SN7 and 6J5.


Thanks.
Now the next question - which L63 tube (or equivalent) is the best one? I think that there are straight glass and ST types as well.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Thanks.
> Now the next question - which L63 tube (or equivalent) is the best one? I think that there are straight glass and ST types as well.


I posted a few thoughts on the WA22 thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-wa22-amp-owner-unite.826386/page-39


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 11, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> 12SL7s have a higher amplification amount compared to the 12SN7. You'll have to turn the knob up higher on the 12SN7 to meet the same volume as the 12SL7. This in turn may bring in noise as it amplifies everything else from all other tubes. You'll have a much better chance of a quieter 12SN7 paired with 6BX7s than a 12SL7. Most anything you buy will probably be very quiet with 6336Bs.



Im guessing that the ECC35 has the same amplification as the 12SL7,and hence can be difficult to have a silent sound with 6BX7s? Im also guessing that amplification factor on that combo would be very high.

What are the suggested power tubes to match up with the ECC35? Cetron 6336b combo any good?


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 11, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Im guessing that the ECC35 has the same amplification as the 12SL7,and hence can be difficult to have a silent sound with 6BX7s?



Thinking back, I’ve never ran into a noise issue with any of the four ECC35s I own. My favorite combination is the ECC35 and the 6BX7s. Compared to my 6SL7 National Unions which all but two out of six don’t have background hiss. You’ll find that the SL7s can be quiet but you have a higher chance of noise paired with 6BX7s.


----------



## Velozity

Anybody care to share pics/dimensions of their basic GOTL?  I'm not interested in the tube-rolling version.  Is/was there a small chassis option?


----------



## Monsterzero

Gonna buy a ECC35 from Stavros,here are my options...


I recon Short Brown Base tube No 7 or No 8 would be a safe bet.
I can also offer one Black Deep Base tube No 2 marked Amperex which is NIB.

Same price. Which should I opt for?


----------



## UntilThen

Get the short brown base.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Gonna buy a ECC35 from Stavros,here are my options...
> 
> 
> I recon Short Brown Base tube No 7 or No 8 would be a safe bet.
> ...


Ask Stavros.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> Ask Stavros.


I'm asking cuz Stavros suggested I ask here


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Gonna buy a ECC35 from Stavros,here are my options...
> 
> 
> I recon Short Brown Base tube No 7 or No 8 would be a safe bet.
> ...



Unless you can find reviews to suggest that one of these sounds better than the others, any of them should be fine. While some obsess over the base, tall or short, brown or black, in fact, the base has no impact on the sound whatsoever. Tubes with black bases might have been manufactured before brown bases, because the brown base wasn't introduced until the 1950's, but this isn't always true. The newer brown base reputedly had better RF isolation, but it was more expensive, and thus was commonly used in very severe operating environments, such as in a military setting or on the floor of a manufacturing plant. But given that most if not all Glenn amps exist in rather pristine environments, the brown base is of no real advantage.

My personal bias is older is better, but without knowing the date codes it is not clear which of these might be the oldest. But if the black base tube is in fact older, that's the one I would go for. Otherwise, I suspect that all these tubes sound very similar, if not identical.

Anyway.. this is my opinion and it is worth exactly what you paid for it. lol


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Unless you can find reviews to suggest that one of these sounds better than the others, any of them should be fine. While some obsess over the base, tall or short, brown or black, in fact, the base has no impact on the sound whatsoever. Tubes with black bases might have been manufactured before brown bases, because the brown base wasn't introduced until the 1950's, but this isn't always true. The newer brown base reputedly had better RF isolation, but it was more expensive, and thus was commonly used in very severe operating environments, such as in a military setting or on the floor of a manufacturing plant. But given that most if not all Glenn amps exist in rather pristine environments, the brown base is of no real advantage.
> 
> My personal bias is older is better, but without knowing the date codes it is not clear which of these might be the oldest. But if the black base tube is in fact older, that's the one I would go for. Otherwise, I suspect that all these tubes sound very similar, if not identical.
> 
> Anyway.. this is my opinion and it is worth exactly what you paid for it. lol



He said they have small sound variances,but asked for the best staging/imaging and best bass(not biggest bass) and those were the suggestions he gave.
I will ask him about dates of mfg.


----------



## attmci (Mar 12, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I'm asking cuz Stavros suggested I ask here


BUY ALL. I You won't regret.


----------



## Monsterzero

Is anyone in this thread bidding on these tubes?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/273749175466?ul_noapp=true

If so let me know so we dont ring up the price too much,and we can always split the cost as I only need one.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Is anyone in this thread bidding on these tubes?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/273749175466?ul_noapp=true
> 
> If so let me know so we dont ring up the price too much,and we can always split the cost as I only need one.




I am not bidding, nice looking tubes though.

Are you still hunting nirvana with the Verite ?

If so, I am hoping you do indeed find it.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> I'm asking cuz Stavros suggested I ask here



What UT said.


Monsterzero said:


> Is anyone in this thread bidding on these tubes?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/273749175466?ul_noapp=true
> 
> If so let me know so we dont ring up the price too much,and we can always split the cost as I only need one.



I think Stavros may be selling a few of these. Good find by the way.

The Fivre tube really excels at pulling detail at low volumes compared any of my other tubes. While it can sound too linear and doesn’t have anything FR that pops out; it has a wide and quite a deep sound stage. I’ve only like this tube paired with the Verite.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> Are you still hunting nirvana with the Verite ?
> 
> If so, I am hoping you do indeed find it.



Yes,but also increasing my tube options for other headphones as well. Just got a matched pair of Cetron 6336s ordered,they shipped out today,and picking up a ECC35 from Stavros....and there goes all my $ from selling my GLM2


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Yes,but also increasing my tube options for other headphones as well. Just got a matched pair of Cetron 6336s ordered,they shipped out today,and picking up a ECC35 from Stavros....and there goes all my $ from selling my GLM2



That was a great deal on the 6336 tubes and no worries all tubes from Starvos are top notch....thinking about popping on an ECC33 and ECC 35 myself.   Not sure yet.

Hoping you find your "happy place" with the Verite.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Yes,but also increasing my tube options for other headphones as well. Just got a matched pair of Cetron 6336s ordered,they shipped out today,and picking up a ECC35 from Stavros....and there goes all my $ from selling my GLM2



Good luck man. Tube rolling can get...expensive. Hopefully the ECC35 fits the bill. It’s a good tube to have for warmer headphones.

If you decide to on wanting a more solid state of attack and speed the 7236 Tung Sols/Chathams really work well with the c3gs. Current favorite setup with the Verite.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 14, 2019)

So....
Theres this ad on another audio forum...
This guy bought 12,000 assorted tubes from some old lady,and he has no idea whats in there,though he has posted several photos.
He says:

"There are no 300B, but I know there are a lot of audio tubes. For sure there are at least 100 12 ax7, maybe 50-100 12AT7, there are tons of RCA tubes, rectifier tubes, line tubes and output tubes."
My guess is that about 80% are in boxes and 20% are loose."

He estimates that these photos represent 20% of the lot...LOL!!!

He's asking $3K for the entire lot. In NJ.

Anyone interested?


----------



## 2359glenn

Probably worth it but most are useless TV tubes. Some oldies in there.


----------



## whirlwind

They would have really been worth it back in the 1980's when there were still a lot of tv's running on tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> So....
> Theres this ad on another audio forum...
> This guy bought 12,000 assorted tubes from some old lady,and he has no idea whats in there,though he has posted several photos.
> He says:
> ...




MZ, for a minute there when I first saw the pictures.........I thought you may have been over @gibosi house for a listening session


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Probably worth it but most are useless TV tubes. Some oldies in there.



$12,000.00 for an unknown lot of tubes?  Seems like a serious gamble.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> MZ, for a minute there when I first saw the pictures.........I thought you may have been over @gibosi house for a listening session



Ha! Well, as Glenn notes, most of those tubes are more suitable for TV than audio. Mine are better!


----------



## mordy

My personal experience has been that you are better off buying what you want or need instead of buying big lots with the intention of reselling what you don’t want.
In my case it won’t happen anyhow.....


----------



## leftside

My wife would kill me. I'm already on life support.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I am not bidding, nice looking tubes though.
> 
> Are you still hunting nirvana with the Verite ?
> 
> If so, I am hoping you do indeed find it.





Phantaminum said:


> What UT said.
> 
> 
> I think Stavros may be selling a few of these. Good find by the way.
> ...



Welp,the auction on those Fivre tubes ended while I was asleep,and I lost out 
Oh well.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> $12,000.00 for an unknown lot of tubes?  Seems like a serious gamble.



Actually, its $3,000 for 12,000 tubes. My tube eye isnt as good as yours,but im trying to learn. I figured if there were gems in there you guys would spot them.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Welp,the auction on those Fivre tubes ended while I was asleep,and I lost out
> Oh well.


auctionsiper.com. Set it with the max you're prepared to pay, and avoid getting involved in ridiculous bidding wars. Also helps with auctions from Europe that may end at 3am.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 14, 2019)

Anyone here try the RCA 6AS7G black plate in the GOTL? Thoughts?
They seem to be inexpensive,and come recommended from Stavros.

Also,what are the differences between ECC33 and ECC35,besides 2 digits


----------



## Phantaminum

leftside said:


> My wife would kill me. I'm already on life support.



If it comes to that don't worry. Glenn can hook you up to the 300B amplifier and you'll live another 20 years or so.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Welp,the auction on those Fivre tubes ended while I was asleep,and I lost out
> Oh well.


Fivre 6sn7 are better than the 6sl7 to my ears. Only you guys can use those12v tubes. So no regrets. Just go ahead and buy all those ECC35s. Much cheaper than ECC33.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> Fivre 6sn7 are better than the 6sl7 to my ears. Only you guys can use those12v tubes. So no regrets. Just go ahead and buy all those ECC35s. Much cheaper than ECC33.



Any thoughts on the RCA 6AS7G black plate?
Also why is the 33 more $$$ than the 35?


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Anyone here try the RCA 6AS7G black plate in the GOTL? Thoughts?
> They seem to be inexpensive,and come recommended from Stavros.
> 
> Also,what are the differences between ECC33 and ECC35,besides 2 digits




The RCA 6AS7G are warm power tubes, and not very expensive as far as 6AS7G are concerned.
I liked them with my Grado RS1 when i owned it.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Any thoughts on the RCA 6AS7G black plate?
> Also why is the 33 more $$$ than the 35?



My guess on the ECC33 and ECC35 is the gain. Some amps have a dialed in gain and running 6SL7 equivalent tubes may not allow much in volume adjustments. It just gets too loud too fast. The ECC33 has gain that’s pretty much equivalent to 6SN7s so finer adjustments can be done.

Since GOTL uses gain from tubes; we really don’t run into the volume issues unless we use something like 6BL7s and c3gs. I fear that can be one noisy combination.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> My guess on the ECC33 and ECC35 is the gain. Some amps have a dialed in gain and running 6SL7 equivalent tubes may not allow much in volume adjustments. It just gets too loud too fast. The ECC33 has gain that’s pretty much equivalent to 6SN7s so finer adjustments can be done.
> 
> Since GOTL uses gain from tubes; we really don’t run into the volume issues unless we use something like 6BL7s and c3gs. I fear that can be one noisy combination.




Yeah, if you use the C3g drivers....the 6BX7 with less gain are better to my ears.

If one has quiet 5998 power tubes.....C3g drivers are the cats meow.


----------



## attmci (Mar 14, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Any thoughts on the RCA 6AS7G black plate?
> 
> I have one. Sounds good on the Crack amp, and it cost only 10-15 bucks.
> 
> Also why is the 33 more $$$ than the 35?



That's a good question. Generally,  6SN7GT is more expensive than 6SL7GT.

Sorry, there are already some answers here I just noticed.


----------



## Phantaminum

Received a Mullard ECC82 in the mail today. Popped it in and I’m really enjoy this tube right off the bat.

Have them paired with Svetlana 6H13Cs and they have a very natural way about them with great tone. Have them paired with the Verite and HD650s. They have almost the same width as a 6SN7 but the image is more centered. Really impressed with these.


----------



## gibosi

Can you make out the production code? Even though it is labeled as a Mullard, there is a good chance it is actually Heerlen-made or it could even be Valvo-Hamburg.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> Can you make out the production code? Even though it is labeled as a Mullard, there is a good chance it is actually Heerlen-made or it could even be Valvo-Hamburg.



Can’t really make out the lettering but hope this helps.


----------



## gibosi

Nope, the pic isn't clear enough for me to make them out. Since you have the tube in your possession, examine it in very good lighting, perhaps with a magnifying glass and you should be able to make out the characters. And use the following key:

https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> Nope, the pic isn't clear enough for me to make them out. Since you have the tube in your possession, examine it in very good lighting, perhaps with a magnifying glass and you should be able to make out the characters. And use the following key:
> 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf



Looked around the whole tube with a flash light and magnifying glass. Couldn't see any other code other than: G7U5.


----------



## gibosi

Well.. Unfortunately, that code doesn't seem to correlate to anything that makes sense....

"G" was the factory symbol for Mullard (Fleetwood) until 1954. However, your tube was very likely manufactured after 1960, given the ring getter and the number "5" indicating the week of the month. After 1954, "G" indicated Loewe Opta, but I have no idea if the ECC82 was ever manufactured at that location.

So I have no idea where your tube was actually manufactured. And I assure you that tubes manufactured in factories operated by different Philips subsidiaries sound noticeably different...


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> Well.. Unfortunately, that code doesn't seem to correlate to anything that makes sense....
> 
> "G" was the factory symbol for Mullard (Fleetwood) until 1954. However, your tube was very likely manufactured after 1960, given the ring getter and the number "5" indicating the week of the month. After 1954, "G" indicated Loewe Opta, but I have no idea if the ECC82 was ever manufactured at that location.
> 
> So I have no idea where your tube was actually manufactured. And I assure you that tubes manufactured in factories operated by different Philips subsidiaries sound noticeably different...



I’ve been looking at Philips ECC82 tubes and the Mullard looks to have two noticeable differences. The top and bottom mica have 4 sets of teeth on opposite sides but between the teeth it’s round.  Exactly like a ECC35. The Philips ECC82 have teeth going all the way around the mica on both top and bottom micas.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve been looking at Philips ECC82 tubes and the Mullard looks to have two noticeable differences. The top and bottom mica have 4 sets of teeth on opposite sides but between the teeth it’s round.  Exactly like a ECC35. The Philips ECC82 have teeth going all the way around the mica on both top and bottom micas.



I do not own a single ECC82, so I haven't studied them. But when the production code is not visible, construction details can often help in determining factory and the date of manufacture.


----------



## attmci

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve been looking at Philips ECC82 tubes and the Mullard looks to have two noticeable differences. The top and bottom mica have 4 sets of teeth on opposite sides but between the teeth it’s round.  Exactly like a ECC35. The Philips ECC82 have teeth going all the way around the mica on both top and bottom micas.


Why do you need two adapters? Just curious.


----------



## Phantaminum

attmci said:


> Why do you need two adapters? Just curious.



I have an E88CC to 6SN7 adapter that I purchased for the GOTL and also purchasd two 12AU7 adapters when I owned my Mjolnir 2. I didn’t want to wait for a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter to ship from China. Instead I used the 12AU7 to E88CC adapter into the E88CC into the 6SN7 adapter. Yeah it’s a bit janky.


----------



## attmci

Phantaminum said:


> I have an E88CC to 6SN7 adapter that I purchased for the GOTL and also purchasd two 12AU7 adapters when I owned my Mjolnir 2. I didn’t want to wait for a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter to ship from China. Instead I used the 12AU7 to E88CC adapter into the E88CC into the 6SN7 adapter. Yeah it’s a bit janky.


I see. THX.


----------



## Monsterzero

@2359glenn or anyone else really...
There was an option to have my amp optimized for 5998s,which I did not get built into my amp. If I buy 5998s and put them in w/o that option what negative result will there be?

I have an obsessive personality. I like to learn all there is to know about any given topic,and then move onto my next topic. It keeps my brain from turning to mush. Currently im stuck on tubes. Was up til 4am reading and looking up various tubes,and now im suffering from info overload.

Can someone put together a comprehensive list of the various tube types the GOTL can take,both with and w/o adapters,or would that take too much time and effort?


----------



## mordy

Might be easier to compile a list of what cannot be used LOL......


----------



## mordy

Pretty sure that these Thyratron Mercury Vapor tubes won't work in the GOTL:


----------



## attmci (Mar 15, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> @2359glenn or anyone else really...
> There was an option to have my amp optimized for 5998s,which I did not get built into my amp. If I buy 5998s and put them in w/o that option what negative result will there be?
> 
> I have an obsessive personality. I like to learn all there is to know about any given topic,and then move onto my next topic. It keeps my brain from turning to mush. Currently im stuck on tubes. Was up til 4am reading and looking up various tubes,and now im suffering from info overload.
> ...


You may need to see a doctor.

However, according to Ken: "I do not recommend that you go to a doctor... There is no cure for this disease... So a doctor's fees would be a waste of money. "


----------



## Monsterzero

Well,for example I was reading about various tubes,then I'd come back to this thread and enter said tube into the thread search function and then read the comments,some dating back to the first few pages of this great thread.

Specifically,was trying to find info on the 6a6 tube and the Sophia mesh plate,but in the past have searched countless other tubes that I come across on various sites. I already PM many of you guys often enough,and figured that if there was a list to refer to it might help others besides myself in trying out different,less commonly used tubes in the GOTL.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> You may need to see a doctor.
> 
> Howeve, according to Ken: "I do not recommend that you go to a doctor... There is no cure for this disease... So a doctor's fees would be a waste of money. "



Yeah i see enough doctors as it is. No mas.


----------



## leftside

@UntilThen posted a great list of compatible tubes. I'll wait for him to wake up and post, otherwise I'll post the list later today. There are probably countless tubes that can also be used with adapters.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Pretty sure that these Thyratron Mercury Vapor tubes won't work in the GOTL:


Deyan can build an adapter.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Well,for example I was reading about various tubes,then I'd come back to this thread and enter said tube into the thread search function and then read the comments,some dating back to the first few pages of this great thread.
> 
> Specifically,was trying to find info on the 6a6 tube and the Sophia mesh plate,but in the past have searched countless other tubes that I come across on various sites. I already PM many of you guys often enough,and figured that if there was a list to refer to it might help others besides myself in trying out different,less commonly used tubes in the GOTL.



The 6A6 is electrically the same as a 6N7G, but with a different base. Specifically, when the octal base was introduced in the mid 1930's, it was a simple matter to slap an octal base on a 6A6 to create the 6N7G. And yes, with an adapter it can be used in the GOTL.


----------



## mordy

Speaking of the 6N7G I just got a new addition in the mail - a National Union 6N7GT/G. With a date code of JR this tube was made in June 1946 and thus is just a couple of months older than me, which is reassuring, for whatever reason.
I almost kept to my self imposed rule of not more than $6 incl shipping per tube (in order to curtail tube excessive buying); this tube was $2 + $4.89 shipping. Oh well...
The seller must have thought that it was a single triode and mentioned something about if you have another one. I actually do, but one side is not working so curiosity got me and when I saw this one I bought it.
The early tubes (well all NU tubes are early since the brand name disappeared around 1954) usually sound very good.
This one is new in its crumbling original box - I have to give it some time to burn in. 





Will report on sound after I get some time on it.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> @2359glenn or anyone else really...
> There was an option to have my amp optimized for 5998s,which I did not get built into my amp. If I buy 5998s and put them in w/o that option what negative result will there be?
> 
> I have an obsessive personality. I like to learn all there is to know about any given topic,and then move onto my next topic. It keeps my brain from turning to mush. Currently im stuck on tubes. Was up til 4am reading and looking up various tubes,and now im suffering from info overload.
> ...




No need to worry if you did not get the 5998 switch. The 5998 tubes will still work in your amp just fine...they sound stellar too.
The 5998 switch is just to run the 5998 tubes a little bit harder, because they can take it....they really do not need the switch to enjoy them.
if you get them, i always let mine warm up a few minutes in the amp before plugging in my headphones...it is not uncommon for them to make some popping noises the first few minutes.

As far as all of the tubes you can use....man, that is going to be a large list


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Speaking of the 6N7G I just got a new addition in the mail - a National Union 6N7GT/G. With a date code of JR this tube was made in June 1946 and thus is just a couple of months older than me, which is reassuring, for whatever reason.
> I almost kept to my self imposed rule of not more than $6 incl shipping per tube (in order to curtail tube excessive buying); this tube was $2 + $4.89 shipping. Oh well...
> The seller must have thought that it was a single triode and mentioned something about if you have another one. I actually do, but one side is not working so curiosity got me and when I saw this one I bought it.
> The early tubes (well all NU tubes are early since the brand name disappeared around 1954) usually sound very good.
> ...



Good catch Mordy. Can’t wait to hear your impressions.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Well,for example I was reading about various tubes,then I'd come back to this thread and enter said tube into the thread search function and then read the comments,some dating back to the first few pages of this great thread.
> 
> Specifically,was trying to find info on the 6a6 tube and the Sophia mesh plate,but in the past have searched countless other tubes that I come across on various sites. I already PM many of you guys often enough,and figured that if there was a list to refer to it might help others besides myself in trying out different,less commonly used tubes in the GOTL.



The 6A6 can be a great sounding tube but you have to get one that is not noisy.

Forget about the Sophia mesh plate it will just blow up in the OTL a wimpy tube that is worthless.
It looks nice lit up but won't last 10 seconds in the OTL.  I had it arc over in my preamp so I sold it only took a little loss


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> No need to worry if you did not get the 5998 switch. The 5998 tubes will still work in your amp just fine...they sound stellar too.
> The 5998 switch is just to run the 5998 tubes a little bit harder, because they can take it....they really do not need the switch to enjoy them.
> if you get them, i always let mine warm up a few minutes in the amp before plugging in my headphones...it is not uncommon for them to make some popping noises the first few minutes.



Thanks for that.

So,since I dont have unlimited funds,and since Stavros sold his WE422a and have a bit of tube cash burning a hole in my wallet...

5998s or WE421a,and why?


----------



## mordy (Mar 15, 2019)

Speaking about mesh tubes, this 0.3A pentode intrigues me (maybe because it looks good, is a NU and the price is right):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-JA...Tested-Vacuum-Tube-Made-In-U-S-A/271238590812




Would this work in the GOTL? But it looks like a unique pinout....
PS: Looking at it closely, I don't think it is a real mesh tube, just a perforation.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> @UntilThen posted a great list of compatible tubes. I'll wait for him to wake up and post, otherwise I'll post the list later today. There are probably countless tubes that can also be used with adapters.



I will post a list of Sansui(s). 

Later today, I'm going out now.


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 15, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> So,since I dont have unlimited funds,and since Stavros sold his WE422a and have a bit of tube cash burning a hole in my wallet...
> 
> 5998s or WE421a,and why?




I am afraid that I can not comment on the WE421a as I have only listened to the 5998 tubes..

I have two sets that are labeled Tung Sol and one set labeled Chatham....to my ears they sound the same.
Chatham labeled ones seem to sell for a bit cheaper if you can find them.
Chatham was a division of Tung Sol


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> So,since I dont have unlimited funds,and since Stavros sold his WE422a and have a bit of tube cash burning a hole in my wallet...
> 
> 5998s or WE421a,and why?


A better question might be "top getter or bottom getter" tubes. As there is some debate over whether the earlier 5998's and WE421A's are all really TungSol, but as Tungsol disappeared as a company one can presume all 1970's and onwards 421A's really are Western Electric - and all of those I've seen have top getters. Now, is there any sound difference between them? I seem to gravitate towards the WE421A with top getters, but I readily admit that might simply be because I paid more for them! I'd really like someone to do some blind testing with me, but my wife says she's done with that lol. I've picked up my WE421A's for around $200 each and the TS 5998's for around $100 - $150 each.

I think they are all great tubes, but one thing to watch out for is they can be a little noisy with more sensitive headphones. I never noticed this with my LCD-3 or LCD-4, but notice it slightly with the Focal Stellia. With your headphones, you should be fine.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I will post a list of Sansui(s).



You and I have done this hobby in opposite directions. I started with the vintage receiver rolling,while you started with tubes. Now the roles are reversed.
Both can be fun(and expensive) experiences.


----------



## gibosi

My small collection of 6A6 below. The 6A6 was first introduced around 1934 and most manufacturer's stopped hot-branding tubes in the mid-1930's. So the two on the right, NU and Sylvania, are likely from the mid-1930's and the other two, rubber-stamped, are later. Personally, I wasn't taken in by any of these and of the common-cathode types, I felt that the ECC31 and FDD20 were superior.



And if mesh plates are your heart's desire, I think this Loewe Radio AZ12 rectifier just might be worth your consideration. However, this tube can produce at most 200ma, and therefore while it is fine in the GEL3N, in the GOTL, you are limited to using only four 6BX7 / 6BL7.


----------



## Monsterzero

Can we use RCA 6L6GC BPs in the GOTL?


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> My small collection of 6A6 below. ]


Great pictures. I'll have to learn how to take pictures of tubes like that.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> My small collection of 6A6 below. The 6A6 was first introduced around 1934 and most manufacturer's stopped hot-branding tubes in the mid-1930's. So the two on the right, NU and Sylvania, are likely from the mid-1930's and the other two, rubber-stamped, are later. Personally, I wasn't taken in by any of these and of the common-cathode types, I felt that the ECC31 and FDD20 were superior.
> 
> 
> 
> And if mesh plates are your heart's desire, I think this Loewe Radio AZ12 rectifier just might be worth your consideration. However, this tube can produce at most 200ma, and therefore while it is fine in the GEL3N, in the GOTL, you are limited to using only four 6BX7 / 6BL7.




Ha!..That Loewe Radio AZ12 is in my GEL3N now and I am listening to Doobie Brothers with LCD 3 pf


----------



## gibosi

For most pictures, I use a light box. I picked one up on eBay for not much money. My "camera" is my cellphone, which isn't all that special, a 3-year old Nexus 5X.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> So,since I dont have unlimited funds,and since Stavros sold his WE422a and have a bit of tube cash burning a hole in my wallet...
> 
> 5998s or WE421a,and why?



That's a tough one to answer.

There are people that say that they both sound the same and some that say the WE421A deserves the price it demands. I can only say that the 5998 has one of the airest, wide, deep, and layered sounds I've heard in a power output tube. It also goes very low (It doesn't rumble but reaches very much into the sub sonic). Match the 5998 with the ECC35 and you have an incredible combination. 

About the switch in the back, I don't really hear much of a difference.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> That's a tough one to answer.
> 
> There are people that say that they both sound the same and some that say the WE421A deserves the price it demands. I can only say that the 5998 has one of the airest, wide, deep, and layered sounds I've heard in a power output tube. It also goes very low (It doesn't rumble but reaches very much into the sub sonic). Match the 5998 with the ECC35 and you have an incredible combination.
> 
> About the switch in the back, I don't really hear much of a difference.



Thats interesting. I used to have a pair of 5998s in my first tube amp(WA2) but wasnt overly wowed by them,but then again it prolly had a lot to do with my Beyer T1 not having any bass to begin with. Staging was insane though.

Anyone can provide info on the RCA 6L6GC BPs? I have a line on a very good deal for a pair,but have zero idea if they will even work or sound good in the GOTL.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Thats interesting. I used to have a pair of 5998s in my first tube amp(WA2) but wasnt overly wowed by them,but then again it prolly had a lot to do with my Beyer T1 not having any bass to begin with. Staging was insane though.
> 
> Anyone can provide info on the RCA 6L6GC BPs? I have a line on a very good deal for a pair,but have zero idea if they will even work or sound good in the GOTL.



The 6L6GC is a beam tetrode. These require an output transformer, so no, they are not suitable in the GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> About the switch in the back, I don't really hear much of a difference.



I agree with this.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Speaking about mesh tubes, this 0.3A pentode intrigues me (maybe because it looks good, is a NU and the price is right):
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-JA...Tested-Vacuum-Tube-Made-In-U-S-A/271238590812
> 
> 
> ...



This is not the plate it is the shield the first ones of this tube were metal so the glass ones had a shield in them.
People also confuse this in the 6SJ7 but I don't say anything as not to cause a argument.

Oh if you want to use a pentode use the 6SJ7.


----------



## 2359glenn (Mar 15, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Ha!..That Loewe Radio AZ12 is in my GEL3N now and I am listening to Doobie Brothers with LCD 3 pf



That is fine just don't try it in the OTL buy buy tube.
That is a real mesh plate I have a pair of globe mesh plate #80 rectifiers only use them in my preamp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> So,since I dont have unlimited funds,and since Stavros sold his WE422a and have a bit of tube cash burning a hole in my wallet...
> 
> 5998s or WE421a,and why?



The 5998s sound great but I won't use them had one arc over and blew my headphones.
And I am not the only person this happened to also happened to @Xcalibur255 
Not worth the risk of blowing $1500 headphones.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> The 5998s sound great but I won't use them had one arc over and blew my headphones.
> And I am not the only person this happened to also happened to @Xcalibur255
> Not worth the risk of blowing $1500 headphones.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> The 5998s sound great but I won't use them had one arc over and blew my headphones.
> And I am not the only person this happened to also happened to @Xcalibur255
> Not worth the risk of blowing $1500 headphones.



I guess I better start saving for the 421s then


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> I guess I better start saving for the 421s then



While I can't be 100% sure, given that the 421A is virtually identical to the 5998, I doubt that it is any less likely to arch over....


----------



## rnros (Mar 15, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I guess I better start saving for the 421s then



The 5998s do sound good. Have a pair of early 60s Tung Sols and I do use them.
One of my favorites in power tubes. Have not had any problems but I do let them warm up before plugging in HPs.
Higher amplification factor than 6AS7 and great with most HPs, but not all.
Buy new, or almost new, if you can.

Edit: I did lose a driver on a pair of old HD600s with a driver tube. Loud static and popping. Crazy thing is the other HP I would use for testing, K7XX, always survived those situatons.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Buy new, or almost new, if you can.



That's my motto with tubes. The downside is I spend a lot on NOS NIB tubes. Too much to count. However the joy in receiving my brand Tung Sol 5998 from Vietnam 2 years ago, is indescribable. BRAND NEW for US$239 for the pair .... and as a bonus it came in a Tupperware box.  

I have every confidence in this pair of Tung Sol 5998 just as I have every confidence from the NOS NIB GEC 6as7g that I bought from Stavros. He told me it's his best pair. A new pair of GEC 6080 from New Zealand.

I also bought a pair of Cetron 7236 brand new. The Cetron 6336b is a new pair too. Also the brand new GEC B36 from Stavros again. Not to mention 2 pairs of Siemens c3g and a pair of Telefunken c3g/s all new.

Not forgetting to mention the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base that I bought from Langrex brand new. Love this tube.

The reason for this spent on tubes is that I enjoy the GOTL a lot. It's a keeper.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> You and I have done this hobby in opposite directions. I started with the vintage receiver rolling,while you started with tubes. Now the roles are reversed.
> Both can be fun(and expensive) experiences.



Rolling tubes is cheaper. Rolling amps is beyond fun. Gets your blood rushing to your head and you start singing in the shower.

I will have my 3rd Sansui soon. A mint condition AU-717 is getting restored and recapped by the local Sansui restore guru for me.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 15, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Rolling tubes is cheaper. Rolling amps is beyond fun



I spent 75.00 on my daily driver,my beloved Sansui 881. I picked up my Akai for $50.00.
Meanwhile,I just spent 2 bills on a single tube,and am looking at some other tubes that cost more than my most expensive receiver,Kenwood Eleven GX.

Granted there are some monster receivers out there,like the hallowed Technics SA-1000 that can fetch $10K or more,but who needs 330 watts(!!!) to drive bookshelf speakers or headphones?!

I will eventually get a McIntosh 4100,just so I can say I own a McIntosh,but for the most part,tubes are more $ in my experience.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> I spent 75.00 on my daily driver,my beloved Sansui 881. I picked up my Akai for $50.00.
> Meanwhile,I just spent 2 bills on a single tube,and am looking at some other tubes that cost more than my most expensive receiver,Kenwood Eleven GX.


What are your go-to tubes for now?


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I spent 75.00 on my daily driver,my beloved Sansui 881. I picked up my Akai for $50.00.
> Meanwhile,I just spent 2 bills on a single tube,and am looking at some other tubes that cost more than my most expensive receiver,Kenwood Eleven GX.



This happens only in America where they have too many vintage amps. How about I pay you (double) $150 for your Sansui 881 so you can spend more on tubes.


----------



## attmci

rnros said:


> The 5998s do sound good. Have a pair of early 60s Tung Sols and I do use them.
> One of my favorites in power tubes. Have not had any problems but I do let them warm up before plugging in HPs.
> Higher amplification factor than 6AS7 and great with most HPs, but not all.
> _Buy new, or almost new_, if you can.
> ...



I can sell you new or almost new shorted XXXX tubes......... LOL

My pair of ECC35 are old, but tested better than NIB or NOS.......


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Rolling amps is beyond fun. Gets your blood rushing to your head and you start singing in the shower.



Just be careful... Assuming you know about water and electricity.  : )


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> What are your go-to tubes for now?



Im currently using a Tung Sol 6SN7GT RP,Mullard GZ34 and RCA 6080s. I have Cetron 6336s inbound as well as a Mullard ECC35 . Looking to get into some god roll power tubes,and eventually a WE 422a,even though Ken tells me its a waste of cash 



UntilThen said:


> This happens only in America where they have too many vintage amps. How about I pay you (double) $150 for your Sansui 881 so you can spend more on tubes.



No chance,lol...love my 881,such a nice warm sound with fantastic bass and mids.


----------



## attmci (Mar 15, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Im currently using a Tung Sol 6SN7GT RP,Mullard GZ34 and RCA 6080s. I have Cetron 6336s inbound as well as a Mullard ECC35 . Looking to get into some god roll power tubes,and eventually a *WE 422a*,even though Ken tells me its a waste of cash
> 
> 
> 
> No chance,lol...love my 881,such a nice warm sound with fantastic bass and mids.


Ask Left, he has some WE422A.

Can you use TS 6SL7GT? They are much cheaper. Anyone tried it on GOTL?


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Just be careful... Assuming you know about water and electricity.  : )



That's an ominous sign. I've been dabbing with 'mountain' and 'water'. That's what Sansui means. So if you add electricity to mountain and water, it's likely to be a volcano !


----------



## rnros

attmci said:


> I can sell you new or almost new shorted XXXX tubes......... LOL
> 
> My pair of ECC35 are old, but tested better than NIB or NOS.......



True, can't disagree. But for myself, not interested in a tube tester (yet). LOL Not going there.
Anyway, just commenting on that particular tube, don't know if there is a potential problem, or not.


----------



## UntilThen (Mar 16, 2019)

*Power and driver tubes for GOTL.*

Alright, I'll start off with my list of tubes for GOTL. Obviously I'll have to rely on Gibosi, Whirlwind, Mordy, Phantom, Nros, etc to add to it because I don't have all the tubes. I'm just a poor pauper.

These are tubes that I have and use on the GOTL. If these tubes can't satisfy you, I suggest you go tubeless. 

Power tubes (in no order of importance)
All of these you will use without the need for adapters unless you want to use socket savers.

GEC 6as7g
Tung Sol 5998
Bendix 6080wb
GEC 6080
Tung Sol 7236
Cetron 6336b
Mullard 6080
RCA 6as7g
Svetlana 6H13C
RCA 6080
GE 6AS7GA  (not impressed)
6BL7gt / gta
6BX7gt  (my fav) all 6 of them

Driver tubes

In the c3g slots

c3g
Valvo EL8 / Philips Miniwatt EL3N (Deyan's custom adapters for EL3N to c3g)
Telefunken EL11 (Deyan's custom adapters for EL11 to c3g)
In the 6sn7 driver slot
6.3 volt

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
Mullard ECC33
Mullard ECC35 (Her Majesty tube)
Visseaux, Fivre, Mazda 6N7G, Mullard ECC31 ( ecc31 to 6sn7 adapter)
Visseaux, Fivre 6A6 (6a6 to 6sn7 adapter - I don't use this now because my adapter is playing up)
Mullard 12AU7/M8136 ( 12au7 to 6sn7 adapter)
12AT7 (12AT7 to 6sn7 adapter)
6DJ8, ECC88, 6922, E88CC, 7308, 6N23 (ecc88 to 6sn7 adapter)
Tung Sol 6F8G black glass round plates (6f8g to 6sn7 adapter)
76 (76 to 6sn7 adapter)
L63/6J5 (6J5 to 6sn7 adapter)

6P5 (6P5 to 6sn7 adapter)
12.6 volt

GEC B36
FDD20 (fdd20 to 6sn7 adapter)
Tung Sol 12SL7gt black glass round plates. (nice and cheap. one of the joys of using GOTL)
25.2 volt

Brimar 13D1
Ken Rad 1633
RCA 1633


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Alright, I'll start off with my list of tubes for GOTL. Obviously I'll have to rely on Gibosi, Whirlwind, Mordy, Phantom, Nros, etc to add to it because I don't have all the tubes. I'm just a poor pauper.
> 
> These are tubes that I have and use on the GOTL. If these tubes can't satisfy you, I suggest you go tubeless.
> 
> ...



thank you!
Bookmarked for future 4am tube reading,


----------



## UntilThen

Of course I make mistakes too. ECC35 should be 6.3 volt not 12.6. Corrected !


----------



## DecentLevi

UntilThen said:


> Alright, I'll start off with my list of tubes for GOTL. Obviously I'll have to rely on Gibosi, Whirlwind, Mordy, Phantom, Nros, etc to add to it because I don't have all the tubes. I'm just a poor pauper.
> 
> These are tubes that I have and use on the GOTL. If these tubes can't satisfy you, I suggest you go tubeless.
> 
> ...



Astounding variety but none of the many EL series with adapters? I heard the EL38 weren't working but what about your red skirt and other variants?
 Seems like they may not even be warranted with the above.


----------



## 2359glenn

There is the EL3N with a dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter one of my favorites.


----------



## attmci

Greedy

https://www.ebay.com/itm/183731268434?ul_noapp=true


----------



## Phantaminum

attmci said:


> Greedy
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/183731268434?ul_noapp=true



Putting in an offer for $1.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> There is the EL3N with a dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter one of my favorites.



Also EL3N to C3g and EL11 to C3g sound pretty great too.


----------



## Monsterzero

Can someone add a list of compatible rectifiers without and with adapters plz.


----------



## leftside (Mar 16, 2019)

A few more:
76 with 76 to 6SN7 adapter
L63/6J5 with 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter (highly recommended) https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-wa22-amp-owner-unite.826386/page-39
6P5 with 6P5 to 6SN7 adapter.

All these tubes are pre-6SN7 tubes, and some prefer the sound.

Also:

12AT7 with 12AX7/12AT7 to 6SN7 adapter. Highly recommended. I like the GEC B309 in my main amps

 6DJ8, ECC88, 6922, E88CC, 7308, 6N23p using ECC88 to 6SN7 adapter. Some fine tubes here.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Can someone add a list of compatible rectifiers without and with adapters plz.



A start...

WE 422A
GEC U52
Cossor 53KU
GZ32
GZ33
GZ34 / 5AR4
GZ37
596 requires an adapter
1641 requires an adapter
5R4GY
5U4GB the "B" is important. 5U4G is not suitable
3DG4
5CU4

And there are also a bunch of 4-volt rectifiers, all of which need adapters, but I think it is best to discuss these separately....


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Astounding variety but none of the many EL series with adapters? I heard the EL38 weren't working but what about your red skirt and other variants?
> Seems like they may not even be warranted with the above.



I'll let my comrades here fill that in while I ponder the meaning of *三穗
*
I've heard some of the EL tubes with the special adapters in the c3g slots and it's good.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I'll let my comrades here fill that in while I ponder the meaning of *三穗
> *
> I've heard some of the EL tubes with the special adapters in the c3g slots and it's good.


 
It`s not a word. But it might be a proper name or a place name.

三 = 3
穂 =  ear (of plant), head (of plant); point, tip; scion (in grafting), cion


----------



## UntilThen

I've updated this post with Gibosi and Lefty input. If you forget where it is, just search for 'Power and driver tubes for GOTL'.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1690#post-14839067


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> It`s not a word. But it might be a proper name or a place name.
> 
> 三 = 3
> 穂 =  ear (of plant), head (of plant); point, tip; scion (in grafting), cion



Good lord I got it so wrong. It's meant to be 'mountain' and 'water' which literally sounds like those words. Shows I'm hopeless with mandarin.


----------



## gibosi

山 = mountain
水 = water


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> 山 = mountain
> 水 = water



Ah ha, that's the one. That's Sansui.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Ah ha, that's the one. That's Sansui.



And sansui is the Japanese pronunciation. Can`t say how these characters might be pronounced in Mandarin.


----------



## UntilThen

I did have 2 pairs of beautiful new Chatham 6as7g. One pair was from Skylab. Alas I sold one pair and traded another pair with a pair of Valvo c3g/s .... not sure where this Valvo c3g/s with original Valvo box is.

Also a pair of Chatham 6520. I think these goes to @Rossliew


----------



## UntilThen

In the past I would have jump on this. AUD $125 for a lightly used ECC35. Alas I've run out of steam in chasing tubes.

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/to...for-weston-amps/?tab=comments#comment-4066685


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I've updated this post with Gibosi and Lefty input. If you forget where it is, just search for 'Power and driver tubes for GOTL'.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1690#post-14839067


Please add another EL tube that can be used in the C3g slots with a Deyan adapter - EL8. This tube is less expensive than the EL11 and EL3N and sounds very good but may need a third driver in the 6SN7 slot to get the best results. (PM me for a source for the EL8).
JV also uses the EL32 in the C3g slots with good results. This tube is a bargain at around $6 but there seems to be an incompatibility between the EL32 and 6BX7/6BL7 tubes for some reason; other tubes seem to be OK.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Alas I've run out of steam in chasing tubes.



I do believe we've lost UT to the 1970s


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Please add another EL tube that can be used in the C3g slots with a Deyan adapter - EL8. This tube is less expensive than the EL11 and EL3N and sounds very good but may need a third driver in the 6SN7 slot to get the best results. (PM me for a source for the EL8).
> JV also uses the EL32 in the C3g slots with good results. This tube is a bargain at around $6 but there seems to be an incompatibility between the EL32 and 6BX7/6BL7 tubes for some reason; other tubes seem to be OK.



I've added EL8 and that post is bookmarked in my profile under 'interest' for easy reference.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I do believe we've lost UT to the 1970s



I was a 70s child. It's the decade I went to the army and fell in love .... not with the army.

Btw I am going to collect the Sansui AU-717 in 3 hours time from a lovely gentleman who's also an electronics engineer and Sansui tech guru. A most friendly guy. I saw this photo of his collection and I almost fainted.... and this is only just one panel. There's more.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I was a 70s child. It's the decade I went to the army and fell in love .... not with the army.
> 
> Btw I am going to collect the Sansui AU-717 in 3 hours time from a lovely gentleman who's also an electronics engineer and Sansui tech guru. A most friendly guy. I saw this photo of his collection and I almost fainted.... and this is only just one panel. There's more.


Holy moly. I do believe that's Sansui heaven


----------



## whirlwind

Talking about the Chatham 6AS7G power tubes. I used to get them through Etsy from Leeds Radio for $40 for a set.

I have no idea if he still has any left. The easy way to tell the Chatham from the RCA is that the Chatham has a little bigger support rods and they are copper.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I was a 70s child. It's the decade I went to the army and fell in love .... not with the army.
> 
> Btw I am going to collect the Sansui AU-717 in 3 hours time from a lovely gentleman who's also an electronics engineer and Sansui tech guru. A most friendly guy. I saw this photo of his collection and I almost fainted.... and this is only just one panel. There's more.



Aah the 70s when I worked for Harman Kaardon working on receivers every day. Had a permanent receiver on my desk and a pair of Koss headphones
listening to 70s music all day. Don't get better then that. Then in 1979 I seen the end was near everything started coming from Japan and they layoff
all the engineers. luckily I worked in electronics ally on Long Island on lunch drove 3 blocks applied at General Signal came back and quit.
Worked on Radar and electronics for death and destruction not as much fun but more money. And learned digital electronics there some fun.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Aah the 70s when I worked for Harman Kaardon working on receivers every day.



If one were to own only one 1970s HK receiver,which would you suggest,and why?


----------



## Monsterzero

After basic inquiries here and reading comments it seems the 5998 and 421a is a high risk/reward tube. However I want to be able to relax while listening to music,not paranoid that my new tubes will destroy my headphone drivers.
So,after those two tubes,which power tubes would you guys rate as the next best thing?

I know many like the 6BX7s,which I own 6 of the GE brand,which are bright and can be a bit noisy. I realize that there are other brands out there,but Ive been unable to find 6 of the same brand for sale,and Im not interested in buying individuals,hoping that theyre not noisy,and potentially tossing cash out the window if they are.

So,after the 5998,421a and 6BX7s,which is the next power tube I should be focusing on?


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> After basic inquiries here and reading comments it seems the 5998 and 421a is a high risk/reward tube. However I want to be able to relax while listening to music,not paranoid that my new tubes will destroy my headphone drivers.
> So,after those two tubes,which power tubes would you guys rate as the next best thing?
> 
> I know many like the 6BX7s,which I own 6 of the GE brand,which are bright and can be a bit noisy. I realize that there are other brands out there,but Ive been unable to find 6 of the same brand for sale,and Im not interested in buying individuals,hoping that theyre not noisy,and potentially tossing cash out the window if they are.
> ...


The Russian 6H13C are very quiet and work very well in the GOTL - also inexpensive.
The Cetron 6336B are also very good and a reasonably priced source for $30 each was listed recently.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> After basic inquiries here and reading comments it seems the 5998 and 421a is a high risk/reward tube. However I want to be able to relax while listening to music,not paranoid that my new tubes will destroy my headphone drivers.
> So,after those two tubes,which power tubes would you guys rate as the next best thing?
> 
> I know many like the 6BX7s,which I own 6 of the GE brand,which are bright and can be a bit noisy. I realize that there are other brands out there,but Ive been unable to find 6 of the same brand for sale,and Im not interested in buying individuals,hoping that theyre not noisy,and potentially tossing cash out the window if they are.
> ...



If you were planning on purchasing a pair of 5998/421 with the cash you can buy yourself several fantastic power tubes. Recommended are a pair of Tung Sol/Chatham 6AS7Gs, a pair (or even a quad because of the price) of the Svetlanas 6H13C. It should all turn out around the same as a just one pair of 5998s. 

If you have money left over you can grab a Mullard ECC82 and the adapter for it.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> The Cetron 6336B are also very good


I already purchased a matched NOS pair from the guy Phantaminum linked awhile back. Tracking number he sent still shows pre-shipment,which is frustrating...send me the damn tubes already! Are these really that good,and can rest easy knowing that im close to the end game for power tubes?



Phantaminum said:


> Recommended are a pair of Tung Sol/Chatham 6AS7Gs, a pair (or even a quad because of the price)


Is there a noticeable advantage of running 4 vs. 2?



Phantaminum said:


> Mullard ECC82 and the adapter for it.


 Wait...this tube goes in what slot,with what adapter? Driver? 



mordy said:


> The Russian 6H13C are very quiet and work very well in the GOTL - also inexpensive.



I read earlier that theyre are many variables/types of this tube,coupled with the stigma of Russian tubes sounding not so great,I honestly have no idea which Svetlana to look for. Suggestions?


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Mar 17, 2019)

Here is my vintage integrated Yamaha CA-1010 20 watts class A and 100 watts AB  and I have owned since high school and it sounds great through headphone jack with the Verite. I paid $475 in the mid 70's and took a lot grass moving and busing tables to raise that kind of money. Today with inflation that we around $1400 but similar new amp is $3100 . Two channel equipment has out paced inflation for sure . Glenn it was had assembled in Japan and the 40 year veteran repairman who did some work on her said  those numbers are conservative of what power  she puts out.


----------



## mordy

Hi Monsterzero,
I was also under the impression that the Russian 6AS7 variants weren't that great. In my other amps there were just so-so, but in the GOTL they really shine! And very quiet too....
There are dozens of offers for these tubes, all made by Svetlana (Winged C). 6H13C, 6N13S etc etc.
Funny, I have pair of Chathams 6AS7G and I never really liked them. Have to pull them out now again and try them in the GOTL.


----------



## 2359glenn (Mar 17, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> After basic inquiries here and reading comments it seems the 5998 and 421a is a high risk/reward tube. However I want to be able to relax while listening to music,not paranoid that my new tubes will destroy my headphone drivers.
> So,after those two tubes,which power tubes would you guys rate as the next best thing?
> 
> I know many like the 6BX7s,which I own 6 of the GE brand,which are bright and can be a bit noisy. I realize that there are other brands out there,but Ive been unable to find 6 of the same brand for sale,and Im not interested in buying individuals,hoping that theyre not noisy,and potentially tossing cash out the window if they are.
> ...



If you have money to burn GEC 6AS7s sound great and quiet that is what I use. Actually I use two GEC 6AS7 outputs and two GEC  L63 drivers.
That is it end game for tubes in the OTL.
But if you can find a pair of GEC 6AS7 for $400 you did good that is what I paid.
No worse then paying $200 each for 5998 + a much better tube that won't blow your phones.


----------



## rosgr63

Sometimes even 6AS7 type tube plates can arc in an OTL.

The safe way is to leave your headphones unplugged for the 1st minute after powering the amp.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> I already purchased a matched NOS pair from the guy Phantaminum linked awhile back. Tracking number he sent still shows pre-shipment,which is frustrating...send me the damn tubes already! Are these really that good,and can rest easy knowing that im close to the end game for power tubes?
> 
> 
> Is there a noticeable advantage of running 4 vs. 2?
> ...



Here are a few difference I hear with when running two vs four power tubes on dynamic cans: Bass becomes tighter and you get less of a mid bass bump. It lowers the impedance so this goes in hand with the change in sound. 

With dynamic headphones I prefer it with two power tubes vs four. High Ohm dynamic headphones (Hd650/Auteur/Verite) really love voltage. The more power tubes you add the lower the voltage but in turn gives you more current. 

On planars it’s all about the current. Two power tubes like the 6AS7Gs make it sound disjointed and the bass can get out hand. Very wooly. Throw in two 6336Bs which lowers the Ohm, tightens up the sound and bass. Also provides a little more current but you may have planars sitting at the 3 O’clock position depending on the driver tube (gain). 

Svetlana’s are fantastic on the GOTL. Want a wide and airy sound stage? Want a little more sparkle at the high end and a present low end? These give it to you. They may not be the most holographic but the Verite carries it the rest of the way. The Tung Sol 6AS7Gs have great holography and is mid centric. Less sub bass than the Svetlanas, less high end sparkle but has a better tone. 

The way I see a tube amp is that you shore up the deficiencies of one tube with another. The Svetlana may not be most holographic but throw in the ECC35 and that takes care of it. The Hytron has great treble and mids but it’s missing much of the low end. Pair that up with a 5998 which sub bass goes very low and another great combo. Of course you can go all out like UT and just run top tier power and driver tubes because why not. Enjoy music to its fullest. 

Mullard ECC82: Cheap and long lasting driver tube. It just has great rhythm and pacing. 

Adapter:
https://ebay.us/gMjhCE

Svetlanas: 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/253441875225


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Aah the 70s when I worked for Harman Kaardon working on receivers every day. Had a permanent receiver on my desk and a pair of Koss headphones
> listening to 70s music all day. Don't get better then that. Then in 1979 I seen the end was near everything started coming from Japan and they layoff
> all the engineers. luckily I worked in electronics ally on Long Island on lunch drove 3 blocks applied at General Signal came back and quit.
> Worked on Radar and electronics for death and destruction not as much fun but more money. And learned digital electronics there some fun.



Thanks for the story Glenn. The 70s was a great decade. The music's great.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> If you have money to burn GEC 6AS7s sound great and quiet that is what I use. Actually I use two GEC 6AS7 outputs and two GEC  L63 drivers.
> That is it end game for tubes in the OTL.
> But if you can find a pair of GEC 6AS7 for $400 you did good that is what I paid.
> No worse then paying $200 each for 5998 + a much better tube that won't blow your phones.



Absolutely. I love this picture but miss the sound. 

Mullard ECC35 and GEC 6as7g


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> f you have money to burn GEC 6AS7s sound great and quiet that is what I use.



I dont have $ to burn,hence all the questions.

So it has been suggested to me that if you wait a period of time after powering up your amp before plugging in headphones that can be a workaround for the 5998 arc issue.
I usually give my amp at least 15-30 minute warmup as it is. Would this method eliminate the danger of frying phones,or no?


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Sometimes even 6AS7 type tube plates can arc in an OTL.
> 
> The safe way is to leave your headphones unplugged for the 1st minute after powering the amp.



Absolutely Stavros. When you first receive any new tubes, you need to be cautious. After a while you'll know your tubes and they should be trouble free for a long time.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> I dont have $ to burn,hence all the questions.
> 
> So it has been suggested to me that if you wait a period of time after powering up your amp before plugging in headphones that can be a workaround for the 5998 arc issue.
> I usually give my amp at least 15-30 minute warmup as it is. Would this method eliminate the danger of frying phones,or no?



TBH, any bad tube may/will destroy your headphone drivers.

I use a pair of clear-top 5998s everyday.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I dont have $ to burn,hence all the questions.
> 
> So it has been suggested to me that if you wait a period of time after powering up your amp before plugging in headphones that can be a workaround for the 5998 arc issue.
> I usually give my amp at least 15-30 minute warmup as it is. Would this method eliminate the danger of frying phones,or no?



5998 are not more prone to arc than other power tubes but the sad truth is there are many beat up 5998 there on the market and new ones are rarer than hen's teeth now. I remember my first pair of 5998. One of the tube goes up with a flame before my eyes. That didn't deter me. Now I got this solid pair and I love the tone.

I remember recommending JV to get a pair and he did. After a week he told me he wanted to return it. Said he wasn't impressed. Now he loves it.


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Matt

I suggest this as a precaution 

Better safe than sorry 

The OTL and the tubes usually do not sustain any damage but the headphones can end up with a blown driver

Some of us had arcing plates in different OTL makes and never had any issues


----------



## mordy

Hi Phantaminum,
You asked me about my impressions of listening to the NU 6N7GT. I have had it in the GOTL some 20 hours or more by now. In addition, I have another 5 6N7GT tubes so i decided to compare them all.
It became a little confusing because today was one of those days when everything sounded good, but I was able to distill out the differences. The players: Visseaux, Tung Sol, RCA smoked glass and clear glass, Sylvania and National Union.
The winners are the VSX and NU, followed by TS and RCA gray glass; then RCA clear glass, and last, the Sylvania.
The VSX and one RCA have clear glass; all the others have the gray glass RF shield.
All the tubes appear to have the same black round plate construction (one RCA gray plate), except for the Sylvania with T plates.
Did you have the experience of listening to music from your PC and suddenly another recording starts to play at the same time? Jumbled, out of kilter. That was how the Syl sounded - something wrong with the sound stage, like things got mixed up. Actually I had this happen once before, also with with a Syl tube. Don't have any explanation, but the Sylvania is out of the race.
The VSX has a beautiful full bodied sweet sound across the FR when backed up by a pair of EL8 tubes as drivers and a pair of Svetlana 6H13C power tubes. (I have tried 4 Svetlanas, but that degraded the sound).
The NU tube sounded the same as the VSX - can't really tell the difference between the VSX and the NU.
The strange thing is that the Tung Sol and RCA gray glass look almost identical to the NU re construction, but sound thinner. The RCA clear glass (same RP construction) sounded even less full bodied.
The NU is not so common but if you can find it it should not be expensive and an excellent alternative to the VSX.


----------



## rosgr63

attmci said:


> TBH, any bad tube may/will destroy your headphone drivers.
> 
> I use a pair of clear-top 5998s everyday.



Actually it can happen to good tubes testing NOS that don’t have any leakage or shorts


----------



## attmci

rosgr63 said:


> Actually it can happen to good tubes testing NOS that don’t have any leakage or shorts


We call those bad tubes too.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Hi Matt
> 
> I suggest this as a precaution
> 
> ...



It's a good advice but I get lazy and complacent after a while. 

Always a good idea to power on the amp first before plugging in the headphone jack.


----------



## whirlwind

I always let my amp warm up a few minutes before plugging in my headphones.
I also unplug the headphones befor powering down.

With the 5998 tubes I usually let the amp warm up ten minutes or so, sometimes the tubes tend to ping a little when first powering on the amp.

I have used the 5998 power tubes for years now and they are my 2nd favorite power tube , just behind the GEC 6AS7G...sometimes I believe I like the tone better.
Nice with C3g driver tubes also....really nice with most driver tubes.


----------



## mordy

I have a cheap pair of headphones that aren't so sensitive to pops and explosive sounds and always plug them in when checking out a new tube or new tube combination.
After checking for a minute or so for untoward noises I power on the rest of the system.
But it is true that your system needs maybe 20-30 minutes of warm-up to sound it's best.


----------



## DecentLevi (Mar 17, 2019)

@mordy which class of Visseaux tubes are those that are coming on top for you?

Which brand of 5998 tubes is all the talk about? I already have Tung-Sol 5998, Cetron 6336b and GEC 6AS7G's
... thanks to @rosgr63 for some of these! Nice to see you around.

And about warm up pracautions - Even worse than blowing a headphone driver would be longterm hearing damage. I'll admit it's a possibility but with how fast I roll tube combos for test / comparisons it would add days just for the 15 min. wait. I could give up to 1 min. warmup, but then doesn't it stand the risk of wearing out your headphone jack from inserting/removing too many times? (this is actually meant for the Euforia since i don't have a Glenn amp yet)


----------



## DecentLevi

2359glenn said:


> If you have money to burn GEC 6AS7s sound great and quiet that is what I use. Actually I use two GEC 6AS7 outputs and two GEC  L63 drivers.
> That is it end game for tubes in the OTL.
> But if you can find a pair of GEC 6AS7 for $400 you did good that is what I paid.
> No worse then paying $200 each for 5998 + a much better tube that won't blow your phones.


From postings it seems L63/6J5 are similar. Do these also require a 'dual' adapter to function in a single driver slot like on other amps? If so do we use one or two pairs?



Phantaminum said:


> Here are a few difference I hear with when running two vs four power tubes on dynamic cans: Bass becomes tighter and you get less of a mid bass bump. It lowers the impedance so this goes in hand with the change in sound.
> 
> With dynamic headphones I prefer it with two power tubes vs four. High Ohm dynamic headphones (Hd650/Auteur/Verite) really love voltage. The more power tubes you add the lower the voltage but in turn gives you more current.
> 
> ...


So for the likes of HD-650 / 600's do you mean to recommend two more than four power tubes?
Somehow on the Euforia amp *6* sound much better than 2 (using an externally heated multi-adapter)


----------



## 2359glenn

With 6BX7/6BL7 six are better that is why I make a amp upgrade for six output tube sockets to use six 6BX7s
With 6AS7s only four or the filament current will overload the transformer and four normally for planer phones or two 6336.


----------



## Phantaminum

DecentLevi said:


> From postings it seems L63/6J5 are similar. Do these also require a 'dual' adapter to function in a single driver slot like on other amps? If so do we use one or two pairs?
> 
> 
> So for the likes of HD-650 / 600's do you mean to recommend two more than four power tubes?
> Somehow on the Euforia amp *6* sound much better than 2 (using an externally heated multi-adapter)



Good question. I talked about 5998s and 6AS7s but never mentioned the 6BX7/6BL7. As you said those tubes sound lean with two, better body with four, and a great meaty sound with six.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Actually I use two GEC 6AS7 outputs and two GEC L63 drivers.
> That is it end game for tubes in the OTL.


End game for tubes in most amps  At this level, tubes like the WE 421A, Bendix 6080 WB, etc are just different flavors of end game goodness.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> End game for tubes in most amps  At this level, tubes like the WE 421A, Bendix 6080 WB, etc are just different flavors of end game goodness.



And in the end it all comes down to personal preferences and synergy. So one person's favorite flavor of end-game goodness is likely to be different than another person's favorite flavor.


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> @mordy which class of Visseaux tubes are those that are coming on top for you?
> 
> Which brand of 5998 tubes is all the talk about? I already have Tung-Sol 5998, Cetron 6336b and GEC 6AS7G's
> ... thanks to @rosgr63 for some of these! Nice to see you around.
> ...


Hi DL,
Back in the States or still traveling the far East?


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> You asked me about my impressions of listening to the NU 6N7GT. I have had it in the GOTL some 20 hours or more by now. In addition, I have another 5 6N7GT tubes so i decided to compare them all.
> It became a little confusing because today was one of those days when everything sounded good, but I was able to distill out the differences. The players: Visseaux, Tung Sol, RCA smoked glass and clear glass, Sylvania and National Union.
> The winners are the VSX and NU, followed by TS and RCA gray glass; then RCA clear glass, and last, the Sylvania.
> ...



Thanks for the comparisons Mordy! I still have the link to the Viseaux driver tubes and almost pulled the trigger but I think I'm at a good stopping point, lol. I agree about the NU having a much fuller sound compared to several other tubes. That's one of the reasons I enjoy it and its euphony. What are your thoughts of it compared to the 6C8G version of the tube? 

Mordy, do try out the Mullard ECC82 if you get an opportunity. I think you may be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> Back in the States or still traveling the far East?


Hey Mordy, yup after several months of being holed up in Bangladesh I finally found a way to afford to return to the states; just last month thanks to help of friends and family. I contracted jaundice disease from the water and after months I'm finally close to 95% recovered. Now my biggest problem is choosing between looking for a job and if my system is finally able to handle a little drink ... I haven't drank a single drop of beer since last year Lol. So now hopefully this also buys me some extra grace on still not yet buying a Glenn Amp, Haha.

PS - @hypnos1 I thought you'd want to read this too


----------



## leftside

DecentLevi said:


> Hey Mordy, yup after several months of being holed up in Bangladesh I finally found a way to afford to return to the states; just last month thanks to help of friends and family. I contracted jaundice disease from the water and after months I'm finally close to 95% recovered. Now my biggest problem is choosing between looking for a job and if my system is finally able to handle a little drink ... I haven't drank a single drop of beer since last year Lol. So now hopefully this also buys me some extra grace on still not yet buying a Glenn Amp, Haha.
> 
> PS - @hypnos1 I thought you'd want to read this too


Crikey man - glad to hear you are (almost) better now. Nothing worse then being sick when abroad/traveling. You're just down the road from me, so if you ever want to drop by and check out some tubes and other audio gear, feel free to give me a shout.


----------



## DecentLevi (Mar 18, 2019)

leftside said:


> Crikey man - glad to hear you are (almost) better now. Nothing worse then being sick when abroad/traveling. You're just down the road from me, so if you ever want to drop by and check out some tubes and other audio gear, feel free to give me a shout.


Yo thanks much for the offer. Ironically Vancouver was where I started my most recent journey around the world back in July (USA to Canada, Germany, Romania, S. Korea, Bangladesh, then briefly thru India) over the 7 months. Here was a few initial photos. Indeed maybe I'll see you sometime as Canada is my favorite country ahead of Japan. So your tube rolling is all for the 300B amp, which is a cut above the GOTL, right?

Also Mordy that would be interesting to hear about my questions above (which Visseaux tubes are people talking about, and which 5998 brand, etc.) nonetheless out of curiosity.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> I always let my amp warm up a few minutes before plugging in my headphones.
> I also unplug the headphones befor powering down.
> 
> With the 5998 tubes I usually let the amp warm up ten minutes or so, sometimes the tubes tend to ping a little when first powering on the amp.
> ...



This.

I always knew Joe and I have slightly similar preference. 

GEC 6AS7 tubes are my favourite 'Jack of all trades' tubes in my Darna. 5998's come close second. I have also developed a habit of 'warming up' my Darna for minimum 10 minutes before plugging in any pair of headphones. This is not only to avoid destroying my headphones, this is also to ensure any noise is almost (if not completely) gone when I start to listen.


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 18, 2019)

gibosi said:


> And in the end it all comes down to personal preferences and synergy. So one person's favorite flavor of end-game goodness is likely to be different than another person's favorite flavor.



So true, 100%.  When someone ask what is the better tube...I hope they realize they will probably get 5 or 6 different answers.
The best depends on ears, gears, music, headphones, dac's ect.....too many variables for everyone's  best to be the same.
As @leftside and  @gibosi have said, there are different flavors of end game.







lukeap69 said:


> This.
> 
> I always knew Joe and I have slightly similar preference.
> 
> GEC 6AS7 tubes are my favourite 'Jack of all trades' tubes in my Darna. 5998's come close second. I have also developed a habit of 'warming up' my Darna for minimum 10 minutes before plugging in any pair of headphones. This is not only to avoid destroying my headphones, this is also to ensure any noise is almost (if not completely) gone when I start to listen.




Hi Arnold, we sure do seem to be similar in what sound we prefer. Like you the GEC 6AS7G are my favorite.
I only roll mine in the amp when I have quiet time and not going to be disturbed, and not surfing the internet.
I save them for special occasions, I appreciate them more that  way.


----------



## rosgr63

DecentLevi said:


> @mordy which class of Visseaux tubes are those that are coming on top for you?
> 
> Which brand of 5998 tubes is all the talk about? I already have Tung-Sol 5998, Cetron 6336b and GEC 6AS7G's
> ... thanks to @rosgr63 for some of these! Nice to see you around.
> ...



Good morning Levi,

Thanks for your kind comment.

My workaround is to use a male/female extension cable like the one sold by Grado.
This way your amp jack doesn't wear out.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 18, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Which brand of 5998 tubes is all the talk about? I already have Tung-Sol 5998, Cetron 6336b and GEC 6AS7G's



All 5998 were manufactured by Chatham. In the mid 1950's, when Tung-Sol acquired Chatham, the 5998 (and similar tubes, such as the 6AS7, 6080, 7236, 6528 and 6336) continued to be manufactured in the same Chatham facility. So nothing changed other than the ownership. But of course, earlier tubes may well sound different than later tubes due to the introduction of new technologies and materials and feedback from the field over time.


----------



## leftside

DecentLevi said:


> Yo thanks much for the offer. Ironically Vancouver was where I started my most recent journey around the world back in July (USA to Canada, Germany, Romania, S. Korea, Bangladesh, then briefly thru India) over the 7 months. Here was a few initial photos. Indeed maybe I'll see you sometime as Canada is my favorite country ahead of Japan. So your tube rolling is all for the 300B amp, which is a cut above the GOTL, right?


I don't tube roll with the 300B amp. Just needed to 'roll' a few different pairs of the PY500's until I found a quiet pair. This amp is amazing with harder to drive headphones like planars and the beastly LCD-4. Only amp I've tried so far that drives these effortlessly.

I'm in line for an OTL, so in the meantime I roll/test out various tubes on a Woo Audio WA22. I think you asked about the L63/6J5? You can see pictures of the adapters required here (same adapter for the OTL): 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-wa22-amp-owner-unite.826386/page-39

The WA22 requires 2 adapters, the OTL just requires 1. The reason I first became interested in the OTL was because you can use 12 volt tubes (such as the GEC B36) and only require 1 6SN7 (or equivalent) which makes using tubes such as the ECC32 cheaper (most amps require 2).


----------



## leftside

lukeap69 said:


> This.
> 
> I always knew Joe and I have slightly similar preference.
> 
> GEC 6AS7 tubes are my favourite 'Jack of all trades' tubes in my Darna. 5998's come close second. I have also developed a habit of 'warming up' my Darna for minimum 10 minutes before plugging in any pair of headphones. This is not only to avoid destroying my headphones, this is also to ensure any noise is almost (if not completely) gone when I start to listen.


Agreed. I used to leave in my headphones plugged in whilst the amp/tubes warmed up, as I presumed the amp would need to see a load, but these days I leave the amp/tubes to warm up for 5-10 mins. I figure that reducing risk is more important than giving the amp a load to 'see'.


----------



## attmci

https://ifi-audio.com/home/computer...StbAvJ9gV7ZugeffCER9otWJg_vUZ_7nZDQ0es-H9i3bQ


----------



## mordy

Hi Phantaminum,
You asked me to compare the NU 6N7GT to the NU 6C8G. Now, since I have a NU 6F8G which sounds a tad better than the NU 6C8G I decided to compare the 6N7GT to 6F8G.
The winner is the NU 6N7GT which sounds even more natural and sweeter than the NU 6F8G. This is my current favorite. It's a pity that they are hard to find.
ESRC1 has 6N7GT tubes listed for $7, but I have no idea which brands are available.
It has to be stressed that the NU is being used with a pair of EL8 and a pair 6H13C tubes.
These five tubes + adapter cost me less than $70. Wonder how they stack up to the GEC L63/6AS7G.......


----------



## DecentLevi

leftside said:


> I don't tube roll with the 300B amp. Just needed to 'roll' a few different pairs of the PY500's until I found a quiet pair. This amp is amazing with harder to drive headphones like planars and the beastly LCD-4. Only amp I've tried so far that drives these effortlessly.
> 
> I'm in line for an OTL, so in the meantime I roll/test out various tubes on a Woo Audio WA22. I think you asked about the L63/6J5? You can see pictures of the adapters required here (same adapter for the OTL):
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-wa22-amp-owner-unite.826386/page-39
> ...


Interesting you're in line for an OTL although you already have a 300B amp. So I'm guessing it doesn't do well with your headphones besides LCD-4? Or is it you prefer the versatility of more fine tuning options or even the sound isn't up to your specs?


----------



## leftside

DecentLevi said:


> Interesting you're in line for an OTL although you already have a 300B amp. So I'm guessing it doesn't do well with your headphones besides LCD-4? Or is it you prefer the versatility of more fine tuning options or even the sound isn't up to your specs?


I have lot's of great tubes I want to try in a different amp, and also the OTL gives you almost unlimited options when it comes to trying out different tubes. There are some tubes I've never heard before, and the OTL will give me the opportunity to give them a try.

The only tubes that are really worth rolling in the 300B amp are the 300B tubes, and they are expensive. So, I purchased the best new production 300Bs and stuck to those.


----------



## DecentLevi (Mar 19, 2019)

leftside said:


> I have lot's of great tubes I want to try in a different amp, and also the OTL gives you almost unlimited options when it comes to trying out different tubes. There are some tubes I've never heard before, and the OTL will give me the opportunity to give them a try.
> 
> The only tubes that are really worth rolling in the 300B amp are the 300B tubes, and they are expensive. So, I purchased the best new production 300Bs and stuck to those.


Great that would be interesting to hear your comparison of the sound of 300B vs. GOTL amps (burning-in periods and tubes used considered of course). I only occasionally follow this thread so please to mention my username with an "@" symbol to notify me if I'm not around, thanks.

Also does anyone have a link to the photos of the Visseaux setup that was praised here recently?
EDIT: I just got word from Mordy by PM about his recent "best to date" setup, that would be cool to tell us more about it.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> You asked me to compare the NU 6N7GT to the NU 6C8G. Now, since I have a NU 6F8G which sounds a tad better than the NU 6C8G I decided to compare the 6N7GT to 6F8G.
> The winner is the NU 6N7GT which sounds even more natural and sweeter than the NU 6F8G. This is my current favorite. It's a pity that they are hard to find.
> ESRC1 has 6N7GT tubes listed for $7, but I have no idea which brands are available.
> ...



Hey Mordy,

Thanks for the feedback. I’m thinking about purchasing the EL-8 to c3g adapter. Sounds like there’s something special when the EL-8s are paired with other driver tubes. You can’t beat $70.


----------



## attmci (Mar 19, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Putting in an offer for $1.



What a scam!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Facto...275238?hash=item3f9694d266:g:I~IAAOSwf15aWHk-

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ti...098238&hash=item5d7bacbb5d:g:DPUAAOSwZeVY8el3

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-MB-SYLVANIA-JAN-CHS-6SN7W-Long-tube-Military-Matched-Pair-Tubes-Original-box/223453317626?_mwBanner=1&ul_ref=https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11021.m43.l1120/7?euid=72ca500eb2364db3afd93aa591f6fb50&bu=43143433688&ut=RU&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F223453317626&sojTags=bu=bu,ut=ut&srcrot=e11021.m43.l1120&rvr_id=0&rvr_ts=96913f551690acc69cf09ad4ffe3d1e6&ul_noapp=true&pageci=63021f98-1aec-4f63-9ceb-e83c002dbdd4


----------



## Monsterzero

Just a heads up to anyone here thats interested in ordering NOS Cetron 6336 tubes from the company that Phanta linked awhile back...
To get a matched pair is $20.00 extra and shipping is an undetermined amount of time. I payed one week ago,and they still have not shipped.
I emailed the guy and he responded quickly,but said it "takes time" to find a matched pair. When I will actually get them is anyones guess at this point.


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 19, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Just a heads up to anyone here thats interested in ordering NOS Cetron 6336 tubes from the company that Phanta linked awhile back...
> To get a matched pair is $20.00 extra and shipping is an undetermined amount of time. I payed one week ago,and they still have not shipped.
> I emailed the guy and he responded quickly,but said it "takes time" to find a matched pair. When I will actually get them is anyones guess at this point.



I never did ask Rich for matched tubes but @heliosphann did receive the ones he purchased about 8 days ago. I'm assuming they were not matched.

Edit: I'll shoot him an email later today and see if I can light a fire under his feet.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> I never did ask Rich for matched tubes but @heliosphann did receive the ones he purchased about 8 days ago. I'm assuming they were not matched.
> 
> Edit: I'll shoot him an email later today and see if I can light a fire under his feet.



Thanks. Yeah I mean if he had mentioned to me that shipping would be delayed considerably I might not have opted for the matched pair. Also when I asked about a matched pair,he said it was $10.00 extra,failing to add that it was 10.00 _per tube_.

Live and learn.


----------



## leftside

Some nice vintage Yamaha gear for you @Monsterzero. New York based as well: 
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Yamaha-MX-CX-CDX-TX-2000-DSP-AST-Titanium/183737354372


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Some nice vintage Yamaha gear for you @Monsterzero. New York based as well:
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Yamaha-MX-CX-CDX-TX-2000-DSP-AST-Titanium/183737354372



$5800.00 is just a bit above what this pauper can afford,but thanks for that...Never heard that line before,but vintage Yamaha has a great reputation.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Just a heads up to anyone here thats interested in ordering NOS Cetron 6336 tubes from the company that Phanta linked awhile back...
> To get a matched pair is $20.00 extra and shipping is an undetermined amount of time. I payed one week ago,and they still have not shipped.
> I emailed the guy and he responded quickly,but said it "takes time" to find a matched pair. When I will actually get them is anyones guess at this point.




If they are NOS tubes....that is matched enough


----------



## gibosi

This is my opinion as well. You are wasting money and time chasing after so-called "matched" tubes. Matched tubes are not necessary if both are NOS. And further, just because the recorded values for one static measurement are the same, this does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that two tubes are actually "matched."


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> This is my opinion as well. You are wasting money and time chasing after so-called "matched" tubes. Matched tubes are not necessary if both are NOS. And further, just because the recorded values for one static measurement are the same, this does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that two tubes are actually "matched."



True and whatever they are using to test if matched is not running the tubes at as high of current as they will be running in the amp.
This is why most tube testers are useless except for testing for shorts. A tester also will let you know i the tube is completely dead .


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Just a heads up to anyone here thats interested in ordering NOS Cetron 6336 tubes from the company that Phanta linked awhile back...
> To get a matched pair is $20.00 extra and shipping is an undetermined amount of time. I payed one week ago,and they still have not shipped.
> I emailed the guy and he responded quickly,but said it "takes time" to find a matched pair. When I will actually get them is anyones guess at this point.



I thought you had 6336 tubes and used them to drive low impedance cans


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> I thought you had 6336 tubes and used them to drive low impedance cans



I have Chathams. Everyone suggests the Cetron,so i grabbed them. If they turn out to sound the same there will be a NOS pair for sale shortly(or whenever I actually get them)


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I have Chathams. Everyone suggests the Cetron,so i grabbed them. If they turn out to sound the same there will be a NOS pair for sale shortly(or whenever I actually get them)



I have a pair of Cetron that Stavros gave me sound great no noise at all also have a pair of GE that look identical to the Cetron
Also are perfect sound just rebranded Cetron tubes got them for cheep.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I have a pair of Cetron that Stavros gave me sound great no noise at all also have a pair of GE that look identical to the Cetron
> Also are perfect sound just rebranded Cetron tubes got them for cheep.



I had a pair of Tung Sol that looked like Cetron.

Once I got the EL3N amp I sold them as I no longer need them in the OTL as I only used them for my planar headphones.  To be honest, I was never that fond of the sound compared to all the heat that they generated.
They did push plenty of current to power the planar headphones though.


----------



## rosgr63

In my humble opinion matched tubes should be of the same production run 

Matched date and factory codes etc

But thats taking it too far

If the construction is the same and are NOS all is well

In the real world in a circuit they don’t have to be matched to perform well


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 20, 2019)

If anyone is interested in Mullard ECC82s.

Rebranded:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/113692044544


----------



## attmci

Phantaminum said:


> If anyone is interested in Mullard ECC82s.
> 
> Rebranded:
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/113692044544


Not all Mullaed ECC82s are equivalent. Because you love these 9-pin tubes, I have to recommend the 7316 to you.


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 20, 2019)

attmci said:


> Not all Mullaed ECC82s are equivalent. Because you love these 9-pin tubes, I have to recommend the 7316 to you.



I’ve been eyeing the 7316s but I’m putting up my hat when it comes to buying more tubes. I did notice that the first Mullard ECC82 that I purchased looks different than the other two. I haven’t listened to the other two but the first tube I received has it’s getter angle up while the other two that came in are horizontal.

First Mullard purchased:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/333090906289

Second:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/264222758493


----------



## Monsterzero

The ECC35 from Stavros arrived today...quicker to get a tube from Greece than a pair from here in the USA. 
Thank you Stavros for the fast shipping! 

To confirm,the ECC35 is a 12v driver,correct? Are there any limitations as to what else I can use with it?


----------



## UntilThen

Nope it's a 6.3v. 

Now plug it in and tell me what you think.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Nope it's a 6.3v.
> 
> Now plug it in and tell me what you think.



OK,glad I asked. I wont get a chance to fire her up until tonight.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> The ECC35 from Stavros arrived today...quicker to get a tube from Greece than a pair from here in the USA.
> Thank you Stavros for the fast shipping!
> 
> To confirm,the ECC35 is a 12v driver,correct? Are there any limitations as to what else I can use with it?


----------



## rosgr63 (Mar 20, 2019)

Hi Darren

I’m pleased it got there on good time

It’s a 6V tube you can use it in any 6SL7 amp or on any 6SN7 amp if the plate current is less than 200V if I remember well

Enjoy it it’s a great tube


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Hey Mordy, yup after several months of being holed up in Bangladesh I finally found a way to afford to return to the states; just last month thanks to help of friends and family. I contracted jaundice disease from the water and after months I'm finally close to 95% recovered. Now my biggest problem is choosing between looking for a job and if my system is finally able to handle a little drink ... I haven't drank a single drop of beer since last year Lol. So now hopefully this also buys me some extra grace on still not yet buying a Glenn Amp, Haha.
> 
> PS - @hypnos1 I thought you'd want to read this too



Hi DL.

Glad you managed to sort things in Bangladesh, and are pretty well fully recovered...traveling around certain parts of the globe can surely prove extremely risky, alas! Safer to stay in Canada methinks lol! ...Best...CJ


----------



## whirlwind

I have been trying to avoid the force of buying an ECC33 & ECC 35......I must admit....the force is strong


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 20, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> I have been trying to avoid the force of buying an ECC33 & ECC 35......I must admit....the force is strong



You *just* have to *do* what’s right. *It* is sometimes hard to hold back instead of *buy*ing things but *it* always comes out fine if you wait it out.


----------



## Monsterzero

I just got shipping confirmation on a GEC B36,forgot I even bought that...damn getting old sucks.
B36 is the 12v one,right?


----------



## mordy

I have an ECC31 Mullard that you use with an adapter. Which ECC tube is it similar to? The ECC31 can be found for around $50 with patience.


----------



## attmci (Mar 20, 2019)

mordy said:


> I have an ECC31 Mullard that you use with an adapter. Which ECC tube is it similar to? The ECC31 can be found for around $50 with patience.


The ECC35 can be purchased for $50 (without any lable, dirty) if you can wait for like 10 years.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> I just got shipping confirmation on a GEC B36,forgot I even bought that...damn getting old sucks.
> B36 is the 12v one,right?



That is correct sir.


----------



## leftside (Mar 20, 2019)

I have a nice magazine article from 1999 discussing the various 6SN7 and variant tubes. A few typos though (including when they mention their favorite tube!), and of course opinionated, but a fun read. But, I can't seem to upload it here...

Edit: Should be able to grab it from here
https://1drv.ms/f/s!ArHjBc9U6


----------



## Monsterzero

I can hear why the ECC35 is so revered. 
Question. It's safe to run it with 6336 tubes? Wanna try the Chathams with it. 
OH, my Cetrons will be here Friday


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> I can hear why the ECC35 is so revered.
> Question. It's safe to run it with 6336 tubes? Wanna try the Chathams with it.
> OH, my Cetrons will be here Friday



Safe as any other tube. Go for it and report back.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> I have been trying to avoid the force of buying an ECC33 & ECC 35......I must admit....the force is strong



Go for it! 

You system (DAC, AMP, Headphones) can definitely take advantage of the tube.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> You *just* have to *do* what’s right. *It* is sometimes hard to hold back instead of *buy*ing things but *it* always comes out fine if you wait it out.






attmci said:


> Go for it!
> 
> You system (DAC, AMP, Headphones) can definitely take advantage of the tube.




I am going to try to hold off the force and be strong...hopefully the urge passes, lol.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I am going to try to hold off the force and be strong...hopefully the urge passes, lol.



It is hard to fight the urge to try different tubes. I fell into the rabbit hole buying the GEC 6AS7s but I am glad I have them now.
I know saying this is not doing you any good at the moment.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> It is hard to fight the urge to try different tubes. I fell into the rabbit hole buying the GEC 6AS7s but I am glad I have them now.
> I know saying this is not doing you any good at the moment.



Yeah, you are like a drinking buddy bringing a friend a bottle while he is at his AA meeting, HA!....Just kidding.


----------



## Monsterzero

@2359glenn  or anybody else really...
I encountered my first tube issue last night,and I really dont understand it. Perhaps someone can shed some light on this situation.

About a month ago I picked up a 4v rectifier and the appropriate adapter from the dude in Bulgaria. After getting it I was very underwhelmed by the sound and chalked it up to it not meshing with my other tubes.
Last night I rolled it back in to see how it would sound with ECC35. Again,it didnt sound good. In fact it sounded like things in the song were missing. I did notice however that the tube didnt have any glow to it,like none. Further,after turning the amp off the tube itself was cool to the touch,telling me that the tube wasnt even working.

Questions:

How am I getting music to play if I have a dead tube?
How can I test to see if its a bad tube or bad adapter?
Can running the amp with a dead tube damage the amp and or the other tubes? I do allow the tubes to warm up for about 15-20 mins prior to listening.


----------



## rosgr63

Hello there,

I'll be very surprised if the tube arrived dead as it tested like new, but bad things can happen.

Do you use it in a 6SN7/6SL7 socket or are you using it with an adapter?


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 21, 2019)

rosgr63 said:


> Hello there,
> 
> I'll be very surprised if the tube arrived dead as it tested like new, but bad things can happen.
> 
> Do you use it in a 6SN7/6SL7 socket or are you using it with an adapter?



No,Stavros, the issue is with a 4volt rectifier tube I purchased about a month ago,not the ECC35. But I am paranoid that this rectifier may have damaged the driver and/or power tubes,or the amp itself in the process.


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Darren,

I was very worried in case it was the ECC35 as it can happen for tubes not to travel well.

A dead driver will not damage your amp so you don't need to worry about that.

I can't say for the rest of the circuit.

You can rest assured that if the fault is with the ECC35 I will either replace it or refund you.


----------



## mordy (Mar 21, 2019)

Sometimes you can't tell if a tube is on or not because the tube glow is faint or the tube has a coating inside the glass.
All tubes get warm or hot, so sometimes I check if the tube is working by touching it - just be careful not to burn yourself!
If I ascertain that the tube is not working, the next step is to clean the tube pins which I do by scraping them gently with a little pen knife. Then you need to check that the adapter pins and contacts are clean as well. If all the pins and contacts are shiny after this, I try to rock the tube and adapter back and forth a little with the adapter in place since it could also be that the adapter/tube does not make good contact. Here you have to be very careful that you don't cause any loud pops and noises - I use an old cheap headphone to avoid driver damage.
The good news is that in the majority of cases you can get the tubes to work.


----------



## Monsterzero

Is it normal for the amp to produce music if a rectifier is dead? Can that damage the amp or other tubes? 
The adapter is brand new and pins on both are clean. Reseated both tube and adapter into amp  but still nothing  I'm bummed cuz this tube is the 4volt version of a God tier rectifier 
How can I determine if it's the tube or the adapter at fault


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Is it normal for the amp to produce music if a rectifier is dead? Can that damage the amp or other tubes?
> The adapter is brand new and pins on both are clean. Reseated both tube and adapter into amp  but still nothing  I'm bummed cuz this tube is the 4volt version of a God tier rectifier
> How can I determine if it's the tube or the adapter at fault



In my experience, when the rectifier doesn't work, there is no sound at all. The function of the rectifier is to provide DC current to the amplifier.  So if the rectifier isn't working properly, then the amp would be totally silent because there wouldn't be any current flowing through the driver and output tubes.

So it seems to me that there must be another explanation....


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> @2359glenn  or anybody else really...
> I encountered my first tube issue last night,and I really dont understand it. Perhaps someone can shed some light on this situation.
> 
> About a month ago I picked up a 4v rectifier and the appropriate adapter from the dude in Bulgaria. After getting it I was very underwhelmed by the sound and chalked it up to it not meshing with my other tubes.
> ...


 
Hey MZ,

Do you only have one adapter and one 4v rectifier? If you do I’d contact the seller and see if he can walk you through testing the adapter possibly using a multimeter. 

The only other options are buying another 4v rectifier (a cheapo) and see if it sounds the same. If it does then it could be the adapter. If it sounds much better with the cheap tube then you may hve a tube issue. Hopefully it’s just the adapter.


----------



## attmci

If the rectifier is bad, you'd better have a box of fuses.

No, I don't believe it is the problem.

Can you share which tube were you using?


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 21, 2019)

attmci said:


> If the rectifier is bad, you'd better have a box of fuses.
> 
> No, I don't believe it is the problem.
> 
> Can you share which tube were you using?



Here is the tube and adapter in question. I noticed that there seems to be a pin missing,and a clean view into the tube itself...Is that normal? It arrived this way. The seller is from Hong Kong and has 100% seller rating,so I trusted her. Still I dont understand how im getting sound,albeit not great sound,if this tube isnt working. Im 100% confident that theres zero glow and absolutely cool to the touch during operation.

EDIT: Heres the original eBay ad. I ran it by Ken prior to buying and he said it was legit,but of course he has no way of knowing if its actually functioning.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-CV1264...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Do you only have one adapter and one 4v rectifier?



Yes,just one of each.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Here is the tube and adapter in question. I noticed that there seems to be a pin missing,and a clean view into the tube itself...Is that normal? It arrived this way. The seller is from Hong Kong and has 100% seller rating,so I trusted her. Still I dont understand how im getting sound,albeit not great sound,if this tube isnt working. Im 100% confident that theres zero glow and absolutely cool to the touch during operation.
> 
> EDIT: Heres the original eBay ad. I ran it by Ken prior to buying and he said it was legit,but of course he has no way of knowing if its actually functioning.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-CV1264-very-new-long-black-plate/323675356324?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


I could be wrong.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 21, 2019)

attmci said:


> I could be wrong.



Sorry man,but I cant make heads or tails out of that diagram. 

From my end,theres only one way for the tube to fit the adapter,and only one way for the adapter to fit into the rect socket. It seems pretty idiot proof.


----------



## 2359glenn

If the person that made the adapter thought the 3DG4 is a 5volt rectifier and put a resistor in the adapter the voltage would be to low.

Check the amp by putting in a real 3DG4 I think I gave you one with the amp.

It seems that the tube was getting a little filament voltage that is why you got some sound..


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> If the person that made the adapter thought the 3DG4 is a 5volt rectifier and put a resistor in the adapter the voltage would be to low.
> 
> Check the amp by putting in a real 3DG4 I think I gave you one with the amp.
> 
> It seems that the tube was getting a little filament voltage that is why you got some sound..



I sent the adapter builder a message on eBay,with a link to your post. Waiting to hear back.


----------



## 2359glenn

Have you tried the amp with the 3DG4??


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Have you tried the amp with the 3DG4??



I have not. I need to get dinner made. Wont be able to sit down and mess around with it til after 10pm.

 I ran the amp last night after removing that rectifier and replaced it with the GZ34. It seems to be working okay. Is there something critical about running the 3DG4 rather than my other rectifiers?


----------



## gibosi

I worked with the adapter builder to design and build this adapter. He knows fully well that the 3DG4 is a 3-volt rectifier, and in fact, before he agreed to built it, he asked me to verify that my amp could actually deliver 3 volts. So no, it is extremely unlikely that there is a power resister inside the adapter.

And again, if the rectifier is defective there would be no sound whatsoever. It would be the same as if you turned the amp on with no rectifier. The heaters will heat up, but as there is no DC, there will be no amplification.

I still think it is simply synergy. That rectifier just doesn't sound good in your system, especially with your headphones.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I have not. I need to get dinner made. Wont be able to sit down and mess around with it til after 10pm.
> 
> I ran the amp last night after removing that rectifier and replaced it with the GZ34. It seems to be working okay. Is there something critical about running the 3DG4 rather than my other rectifiers?



It has a large 20 watt resistor to drop the voltage to the 3DG4. Just want to make sure the adapter wasn't wired wrong and damaged the resistor.
Unlikely it is a powerful large resistor. Who knows you might like the sound of this setup with the 3DG4 It is a powerful low voltage drop rectifier.


----------



## 2359glenn (Mar 21, 2019)

gibosi said:


> I worked with the adapter builder to design and build this adapter. He knows fully well that the 3DG4 is a 3-volt rectifier, and in fact, before he agreed to built it, he asked me to verify that my amp could actually deliver 3 volts. So no, it is extremely unlikely that there is a power resister inside the adapter.
> 
> And again, if the rectifier is defective there would be no sound whatsoever. It would be the same as if you turned the amp on with no rectifier. The heaters will heat up, but as there is no DC, there will be no amplification.
> 
> I still think it is simply synergy. That rectifier just doesn't sound good in your system, especially with your headphones.



@Monsterzero said the tube didn't get hot.  That would indicate a bad tube or no filament voltage.
This is odd that he got sound it almost indicates the tube filament was lit dull so you couldn't see it
But still allowing it to conduct some.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> @Monsterzero said the tube didn't get hot.  That would indicate a bad tube or no filament voltage.



We don't know how long the rectifier was on.....

And again, in my limited experience, if the rectifier has no filament voltage, there is no DC. And if there is no DC, there is no sound. As an example, I have a rectifier, a GZ34 in fact, that I often have to rock back and forth in the socket in order to ensure that the filament is connected. Otherwise, there is no sound...


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> I still think it is simply synergy. That rectifier just doesn't sound good in your system, especially with your headphones.



Perhaps,but it has no glow and literally room temp even when powered up.




2359glenn said:


> t has a large 20 watt resistor to drop the voltage to the 3DG4. Just want to make sure the adapter wasn't wired wrong and damaged the resistor.
> Unlikely it is a powerful large resistor. Who knows you might like the sound of this setup with the 3DG4 It is a powerful low voltage drop rectifier.



OK,will drop it in tonight.



2359glenn said:


> @Monsterzero said the tube didn't get hot.  That would indicate a bad tube or no filament voltage.



This. I may be an old man,but I know what a hot tube feels like,and this one doesnt even get slightly warm. Will wait to hear from adapter builder.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> We don't know how long the rectifier was on.....



Approx 1 hour,give or take.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Perhaps,but it has no glow and literally room temp even when powered up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Approx 1 hour,give or take.



Then I would suggest thoroughly sanding the pins. It may be that the filament pins are not making a good connection in the adapter or in the socket, and as a result, there is only a little filament voltage which could explain why you are getting some sound..


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> It has a large 20 watt resistor to drop the voltage to the 3DG4. Just want to make sure the adapter wasn't wired wrong and damaged the resistor.
> Unlikely it is a powerful large resistor. Who knows you might like the sound of this setup with the 3DG4 It is a powerful low voltage drop rectifier.



Made time,and yes the stock rectifier works fine in the amp,with 6336s. Something im noticing though,is that on the headphones I have that are 250+ ohms the 6336s are making a loud hum. On the K701s,no hum at all.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Then I would suggest thoroughly sanding the pins. It may be that the filament pins are not making a good connection in the adapter or in the socket, and as a result, there is only a little filament voltage which could explain why you are getting some sound..



I have been using Deoxit on obviously grimed up pins,but just ordered some sandpaper. Will report back after I sand them and/or when I hear from adapter dude.


----------



## 2359glenn

So no problem with the amp 
Problem is the adapter or tube
Did you like the sound of the 3DG4?


----------



## 2359glenn

I suppose you have no means of testing the tube or adapter.
You would have to send it to me to test or at least check the adapter if it is wired correctly.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> So no problem with the amp
> Problem is the adapter or tube
> Did you like the sound of the 3DG4?



I didnt really *listen*...merely checked to see if it was working. Tried my AKG K340s(my sacrificial lamb on new tubes) and noticed a hum,which I also experienced on my Verites last night,hence why I was asking if this issue can damage other tubes,or the amp itself. 
Then tried the K701s,and no hum.



2359glenn said:


> I suppose you have no means of testing the tube or adapter.
> You would have to send it to me to test or at least check the adapter if it is wired correctly.



I will sand down all the pins on both the adapter and the tube,and if the issue persists I will send it to you. Thank you.


----------



## attmci (Mar 21, 2019)

LOL, u guys try to drive him crazy.

Could be a bad tube. No test results according to eBay.

M, take it easy.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> LOL, u guys try to drive him crazy.



You have no idea,I couldnt even sleep last night...argh.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I didnt really *listen*...merely checked to see if it was working. Tried my AKG K340s(my sacrificial lamb on new tubes) and noticed a hum,which I also experienced on my Verites last night,hence why I was asking if this issue can damage other tubes,or the amp itself.
> Then tried the K701s,and no hum.
> 
> 
> ...



You might have a hummy 6336 aren't you getting a new pair?  The hum was only with sensitive high impedance phones the 6336 are really for low impedance.
Even though they shouldn't hum mine don't.

Really don't think sanding will work on that rectifier this tube is running at high voltage but try it anyway if the filament was getting nothing.


----------



## attmci




----------



## mordy

Can you turn around the tube? - can't read the markings....Probably a Russian 6AK5 equivalent.
I also note that one of the tube pins made a hole in the earlobe.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Can you turn around the tube? - can't read the markings....Probably a Russian 6AK5 equivalent.
> I also note that one of the tube pins made a hole in the earlobe.


Nope. Need a surgery to turn it around.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 22, 2019)

@2359glenn

Heres the response from the guy who built the adapter.

"Hello. No resistors in the thing. It's made just like the diagram in the thread. To be honest I've read the thread I'm clueless on what is going on. But to say that the tube is bad ( which I think it is ) would be just washing my hands of the matter. So ill make another adapter hopefully by the end of the day."

So the question is can a simple bad tube have no glow and no heat coming from it,or could it be something else? Sandpaper wont be here til saturday.

EDIT: He responded again with this:


*"I do have some rectifier tubes that are drawing x3 the normal current in order to light up but they are gassy. The getter flashing on yours is in normal condition. Come to think of it I do have a GZ34 that is doing the same thing and the getter on it is normal as well. The sound that is coming out is the most baffling it means the connections in the adapter are as they should. In any case I already started working on a replacement adapter I you want I can wait until Monday to send it. Sometimes issues like this tend to solve them selves out of nowhere.
All in all my bet is that the tube has some air in it ( that doesn't mean it has a crack )."
*


Air. It has a hole in the bottom,which apparently is normal. How does one keep air out of tube that has a hole in the bottom?

Who knew tubes could be so complicated?!?


----------



## 2359glenn

The hole is in the glued on base not through the glass.
And the tube might just have a bad filament if it don't light up.
Tubes are simple not complicated SS is much more complicated.


----------



## attmci (Mar 22, 2019)

Do you have a multimeter? Just check the connection according to the diagram. So simple.

I have tube with broken filament. Most of the time, you can pinpoint the site if you look inside.

Again, the single rectifier tube  is no big deal.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm about join the bass lovers in getting a LCD3. The GOTL should drive it well. The LCD3 is 110 ohms. It drove my LCD-2f (70 ohms) very well. 

Now waiting for Ulysses to come home.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I'm about join the bass lovers in getting a LCD3. The GOTL should drive it well. The LCD3 is 110 ohms. It drove my LCD-2f (70 ohms) very well.
> 
> Now waiting for Ulysses to come home.





Congrats on the LCD 3.
Mine is a pre-fazor, I believe it is 110 ohms...but not positive.

Just unplugged the Atticus from GOTL and plugged in LCD 3....it powers it just fine, just need to turn up the volume from 10:00 on Atticus to about 1:00 on LCD 3 
This is with 5998 power tubes...this headphone has some liquid flowing smooth mids, like smooth milk chocolate. Bass is nice and tight too from GOTL
You will be golden.

I am addicted to planar bass...I love how it just appears and disappears from the music.

I am hoping that Zach at some points does a planar headphone of his own....I can dream!


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I'm about join the bass lovers in getting a LCD3. The GOTL should drive it well. The LCD3 is 110 ohms. It drove my LCD-2f (70 ohms) very well.
> 
> Now waiting for Ulysses to come home.



Should be next week


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Should be next week



Jesus.... I could die of happiness with so much happening in my audio world.

YES YES YES !!!  My tubes are jumping for joy.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> .this headphone has some liquid flowing smooth mids, like smooth milk chocolate. Bass is nice and tight too from GOTL
> You will be golden.



I can't wait to listen to the LCD3, especially so since I'll be able to compare it to the LCD-2f, the latter will be sold after I've enough time to compare them.

I've been reading the LCD3 reviews here on Head-Fi. So many gifted writers who are obviously passionate with audio and music.

I think the LCD3 will be a good ying and yang with the HD800. I await to be golden. I miss the sound of Mullard ECC35 with 6 x 6bx7gt on the GOTL. In fact so many gorgeous tubes to listen with.... this time with socket savers for sure.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I can't wait to listen to the LCD3, especially so since I'll be able to compare it to the LCD-2f, the latter will be sold after I've enough time to compare them.
> 
> I've been reading the LCD3 reviews here on Head-Fi. So many gifted writers who are obviously passionate with audio and music.
> 
> I think the LCD3 will be a good ying and yang with the HD800. I await to be golden. I miss the sound of Mullard ECC35 with 6 x 6bx7gt on the GOTL. In fact so many gorgeous tubes to listen with.... this time with socket savers for sure.




Yeah. good times ahead...GOTL will be great compliment to your receivers.

I reach for the LCD3 a lot.....listening to my favorite ZZ Top album, One Foot In The Blues, Dusty Hill's bass guitar is just flippin epic!
I love their more guitar driven blues sound more than the stuff with the synthesizers and the more pop sound.

If you are going to roll lots of tubes, like everyday...socket savers are a good idea.


----------



## UntilThen

Socket savers ready ! Magnificent 7. 1 for the driver and 6 for the powers. 

I'll practise rolling them into the Sansui amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Socket savers ready ! Magnificent 7. 1 for the driver and 6 for the powers.
> 
> I'll practise rolling them into the Sansui amp.



What would that be transistor savers


----------



## gibosi

Hey Glenn,

Maybe you could be use this in your next amp? 

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/140/4/4PR60A.pdf


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> I'm about join the bass lovers in getting a LCD3. The GOTL should drive it well. The LCD3 is 110 ohms. It drove my LCD-2f (70 ohms) very well.
> 
> Now waiting for Ulysses to come home.



Congrats on the LCD-3, bet you will not be disappointed!


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> Congrats on the LCD 3.
> Mine is a pre-fazor, I believe it is 110 ohms...but not positive.
> 
> Just unplugged the Atticus from GOTL and plugged in LCD 3....it powers it just fine, just need to turn up the volume from 10:00 on Atticus to about 1:00 on LCD 3
> ...


Have you tried to use a ECC35 or a 6SU7GT as driver?


----------



## whirlwind

attmci said:


> Have you tried to use a ECC35 or a 6SU7GT as driver?




No I have not.  I do not own either.
I am running a Tung Sol 6F8G black glass round plate at the moment.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Hey Glenn,
> 
> Maybe you could be use this in your next amp?
> 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/140/4/4PR60A.pdf



Cool plate voltage 20,000 guess I could tap off the power line ahead of the transformer


----------



## attmci (Mar 23, 2019)

Come on, I don't need these ECC34.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303098335233


----------



## leftside (Mar 23, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Congrats on the LCD 3.
> Mine is a pre-fazor, I believe it is 110 ohms...but not positive.
> 
> Just unplugged the Atticus from GOTL and plugged in LCD 3....it powers it just fine, just need to turn up the volume from 10:00 on Atticus to about 1:00 on LCD 3
> ...





UntilThen said:


> I can't wait to listen to the LCD3, especially so since I'll be able to compare it to the LCD-2f, the latter will be sold after I've enough time to compare them.
> 
> I've been reading the LCD3 reviews here on Head-Fi. So many gifted writers who are obviously passionate with audio and music.
> 
> I think the LCD3 will be a good ying and yang with the HD800. I await to be golden. I miss the sound of Mullard ECC35 with 6 x 6bx7gt on the GOTL. In fact so many gorgeous tubes to listen with.... this time with socket savers for sure.


I agree with all of that.

The LCD3 will be a nice contrast to the HD800. They should like the higher gain tubes like 5998, etc.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 23, 2019)

Your Sansuis will rock the Audeze as well,but im suspecting the GOTL will have a cleaner bottom end.

Got my Cetron 6336b yesterday. Happy to report theres no buzz coming from these,and like the tone too. Very nice with Verites,too bright for the Auteurs. Are 5998s brighter than the Cetrons? Put in a cpl bids on some warmer,cheap power tubes to tide me over til I can find some end game warm power tubes.

@gibosi those Mullard 6080s from Serbia arent legit?


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Your Sansuis will rock the Audeze as well,but im suspecting the GOTL will have a cleaner bottom end.
> 
> Got my Cetron 6336b yesterday. Happy to report theres no buzz coming from these,and like the tone too. Very nice with Verites,too bright for the Auteurs. Are 5998s brighter than the Cetrons? Put in a cpl bids on some warmer,cheap power tubes to tide me over til I can find some end game warm power tubes.
> 
> @gibosi those Mullard 6080s from Serbia arent legit?



Glad they got to you MZ.

The 5998s are brighter than the RCA 6AS7Gs but I think they’re less bright than the Cetrons. It is a great power tube with the Verite. It layers better than any other power tube I have and has a deep sound stage.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Glad they got to you MZ.
> 
> The 5998s are brighter than the RCA 6AS7Gs but I think they’re less bright than the Cetrons. It is a great power tube with the Verite. It layers better than any other power tube I have and has a deep sound stage.



Put in a cpl bids on GEs and RCAs,cheap...so cheap that even if theyre the same its okay. Have read that GE/RCA are the same tube often,but no idea if thats the case here.

Yeah was listening to Best of Vaya Con Dios last night and was really enjoying them.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Your Sansuis will rock the Audeze as well,but im suspecting the GOTL will have a cleaner bottom end.
> 
> Got my Cetron 6336b yesterday. Happy to report theres no buzz coming from these,and like the tone too. Very nice with Verites,too bright for the Auteurs. Are 5998s brighter than the Cetrons? Put in a cpl bids on some warmer,cheap power tubes to tide me over til I can find some end game warm power tubes.
> 
> @gibosi those Mullard 6080s from Serbia arent legit?



They certainly look to be legit. The construction matches and you can make out the Mullard production code in the pics:

AJ1 R1G = Mullard / Mitcham -- July, 1961


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Put in a cpl bids on GEs and RCAs,cheap...so cheap that even if theyre the same its okay. Have read that GE/RCA are the same tube often,but no idea if thats the case here.
> 
> Yeah was listening to Best of Vaya Con Dios last night and was really enjoying them.



To the best of my knowledge, of the American manufacturers, only RCA and Chatham / Tung-Sol manufactured the 6AS7G. So if the GE looks like an RCA, then it is.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Put in a cpl bids on GEs and RCAs,cheap...so cheap that even if theyre the same its okay. Have read that GE/RCA are the same tube often,but no idea if thats the case here.
> 
> Yeah was listening to Best of Vaya Con Dios last night and was really enjoying them.



I was enjoying Vaya Con Dios too though it's the first time I'm listening to her sing and I know nothing about French.

It's quite clear, you have a preference for a slight warm tilt with tubes for your Verite. So I wouldn't suggest 5998, 6336b and even Mullard 6080. The best choice would be the GEC 6as7g, next would be the equally as hard to obtain Chatham 6as7g. Try RCA 6as7g. Might be too warm and bassy for you.

I'm quite adaptable. I can go from one extreme to another, depending on mood. At 5am in the morning having just stumble out of sleep, I would prefer warmest tubes to serenade me out of sleep.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Congrats on the LCD-3, bet you will not be disappointed!



Hi SI thanks. I won't be going in blind folded, having already spend more than a year with a LCD-2f. My expectations would be a luscious mid and a deep deep volcanic bass. I'm ok with the treble being loped off. There are times when I love this sound signature and there are times I'd love the clarity and soundstage of the HD800.

I'm now listening with the LCD-2f with the warmish tone of the Sansui and I'm starting to enjoy this Vaya Con Dios that came out of nowhere.


----------



## Phantaminum

@gibosi 

I was hoping you could verify that the Colomor I own is a Fivre 12SL7. Looking online it seems that it matches several other pictures of the round plate Fivres but doesn’t look at all like my 12SN7 Fivre. I’m thinking a change in production? Also what would of came first the non round plate or round plate? Thanks!


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> @gibosi
> 
> I was hoping you could verify that the Colomor I own is a Fivre 12SL7. Looking online it seems that it matches several other pictures of the round plate Fivres but doesn’t look at all like my 12SN7 Fivre. I’m thinking a change in production? Also what would of came first the non round plate or round plate? Thanks!



I'll have to defer to others on this. I have two Fivre 6SN7, one with a bottom rectangular getter and a later one with a side mounted halo getter, and both have the same rectangular mica, top and bottom, with three teeth on the short ends.

If Fivre ever used circular mica with the mica side spacers on top, I can't say....


----------



## attmci (Mar 23, 2019)

Ken, why do you want to compare the structure of 6SN7/12SN7 to that of 6SL7/ 12SL7? I don't get it.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 23, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I was enjoying Vaya Con Dios too though it's the first time I'm listening to her sing and I know nothing about French.



Unless you like getting dirty looks,or worse,never ever refer to someone from Belgium as French.



UntilThen said:


> It's quite clear, you have a preference for a slight warm tilt with tubes for your Verite.



Thus far,the brighter tubes Ive tried with the Verite collapses the 3D imaging of it,but im still experimenting.



UntilThen said:


> Try RCA 6as7g.



One of the cheap tubes I put bids on last night.



UntilThen said:


> I'm now listening with the LCD-2f with the warmish tone of the Sansui and I'm starting to enjoy this Vaya Con Dios that came out of nowhere.



I discovered them many years ago when I was a DJ for Club Med. I was cleaning the dust from behind the rack and found a couple CDs back there. I almost tossed it into the garbage,but decided to give the disc a spin,and immediately was impressed. Quite different than my normal tastes in music,but I dig her voice,the surf-like guitar tone on some of their stuff as well.

Excellent band.


----------



## leftside

Nice Sansui just came into my local (40 min drive) vintage audio store. I'm guessing this one is pretty rare:
https://www.iavscanada.com/product/sansui-au-111-tube-integrated-amplifier/


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Nice Sansui just came into my local (40 min drive) vintage audio store. I'm guessing this one is pretty rare:
> https://www.iavscanada.com/product/sansui-au-111-tube-integrated-amplifier/



Left, you're about to step into a river of no return. Best to discuss that in the Vintage amp thread. 

That is the cream of Sansui tube technology. A coveted gem.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Left, you're about to step into a river of no return. Best to discuss that in the Vintage amp thread.
> 
> That is the cream of Sansui tube technology. A coveted gem.


I admire the vintage gear, but am no longer tempted (apart from vintage tubes lol). My first step onto the "audiophile" ladder was with vintage (McIntosh and Accuphase) gear. Now, if I had a third room for audio gear... then it would surely be of the vintage type. 

I figured at that price it must be a coveted gem. It's even more expensive than totally restored Mac MC30, MC60 and MC75 amps.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I admire the vintage gear, but am no longer tempted (apart from vintage tubes lol). My first step onto the "audiophile" ladder was with vintage (McIntosh and Accuphase) gear. Now, if I had a third room for audio gear... then it would surely be of the vintage type.
> 
> I figured at that price it must be a coveted gem. It's even more expensive than totally restored Mac MC30, MC60 and MC75 amps.



There has been an explosion of nice pictures in the vintage thread to that is drool worthy. Btw I just learn that Accuphase is closely tight to Kenwood. 

However.... however.... much as I love speakers listening, I'm spending more time with headphones because every time I crank up the volume of the lounge system, the wife, daughter and even the dog goes on strike !

Fortunately I've very good sounding gear with my headphones and to that end, I am still in love with my GOTL. The most dynamic, powerful and engaging OTL amp I've ever owned or heard. It shall be with me to eternity.

Sail on home Ulyssess !

Btw have you got your GOTL? I'm waiting on an avalanche of photos from you.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Btw have you got your GOTL? I'm waiting on an avalanche of photos from you.


It will be a while I think. Glenn is a busy man these days. Really enjoying rolling tubes again in the WA22 with the Stellia though. With the higher sensitivity headphones, I can roll many more different tubes and hear more differences than I did with the LCD-3. With the LCD-3 it was basically plug-in the higher gain tubes and leave as is to get the best sound. Be interesting to see what you think of the LCD-3 and HD800 in the GOTL. I really like having lower sensitivity/harder to drive headphones for the 300B, and higher sensitivity/easier to drive headphones for the WA22. For example, I'm guessing with the GOTL you'll like 2-4 6BL7's with the HD800 and 6 6BL7's with the GOTL. It's great that the GOTL gives that option.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> For example, I'm guessing with the GOTL you'll like 2-4 6BL7's with the HD800 and 6 6BL7's with the GOTL. It's great that the GOTL gives that option.



If I remember correctly, two 6BL7's is not recommended in the GOTL as the resulting B+ is too high and the tubes might not last long. However, four 6BL7's are fine.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> If I remember correctly, two 6BL7's is not recommended in the GOTL as the resulting B+ is too high and the tubes might not last long. However, four 6BL7's are fine.


I'll change my statement to "4 for the HD800 and 6 for the LCD-3" then


----------



## Monsterzero

Tonight im listening to the original,vaunted,speedy ATH AD2000 on my GOTL. Being able to use 6336 tubes in the Glenn is a huge game changer IMO,which allows me to use these low impedance/high sensitivity headphones on an OTL.

There headphones were recommended to me by a slightly grumpy old member way back when,when I first got into this hobby. I was looking for a mid-centric lightning fast headphone that excelled at metal. The same member wrote the definitive review of the AD2000s,which can be found here. 
These headphones are notoriously amp picky,and quite divisive. Some hate it,while others once claimed it to be the finest headphone made at the time. In his review the author claimed the Gilmore Lite to be the best he had ever heard it sound,so I went out and bought the MK2 just for these headphones. However once I discovered 6336 tubes and I heard the AD2000s on the GOTL I quickly posted the Gilmore for sale. The GOTL gives it great 3D staging,warms up the bass without sacrificing the speed and retaining those famous mids,which are still world class IMO. The GLM2 made it a very sterile sounding,L/R sounding headphone. Its no wonder why some hate this headphone,because frankly I wasnt a fan of the way it sounded on the Gilmore at all.

Now if the GOTL could fix the lack of comfort of these things I'd be in heaven.


----------



## Phantaminum

Phantaminum said:


> @gibosi
> 
> I was hoping you could verify that the Colomor I own is a Fivre 12SL7. Looking online it seems that it matches several other pictures of the round plate Fivres but doesn’t look at all like my 12SN7 Fivre. I’m thinking a change in production? Also what would of came first the non round plate or round plate? Thanks!



Looks like I may have found the answer after a little Google-Fu. Looks exactly like the Fivre tube Stavros owns: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/balancing-act-tube-rolling.497049/page-12#post-8094506


----------



## rosgr63

Monsterzero said:


> Unless you like getting dirty looks,or worse,never ever refer to someone from Belgium as French.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Great band I like them too.


----------



## rosgr63

Phantaminum said:


> Looks like I may have found the answer after a little Google-Fu. Looks exactly like the Fivre tube Stavros owns: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/balancing-act-tube-rolling.497049/page-12#post-8094506



IMHO The Italian tubes are underestimated, hidden gems.......

That's for my tastes not a general statement.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> There has been an explosion of nice pictures in the vintage thread to that is drool worthy. Btw I just learn that Accuphase is closely tight to Kenwood.
> 
> However.... however.... much as I love speakers listening, I'm spending more time with headphones because every time I crank up the volume of the lounge system, the wife, daughter and even the dog goes on strike !
> 
> ...




Ha, I hear you about the wife having to listen to your loud music.  I gave up my speaker listening in 2007 because of that reason. It was then that I bought my first headphone that was good enough to be a game changer as far as headphones 
go for me. I bought the Grado 325i in 2007 and have not listened to speakers as my main listening ever since.  At first I missed it, but now I don't even ever think about it.  i have lots of vinyl just sitting in the basement taking up space.
My wife asks me to sell it every once in awhile, but I have never took the time.

Fast forward to now and my wife still hears my music at times with my open headphones....guess I play them a little too loud, but never fear, for those situations I have countered with Zach's closed headphones, a dynamic and a planar and both isolate so well she can't
hear anything, even when she is sitting very close to me.

I get up early every morning to hear an album or two before work, just gets my day started right.  I use my close headphones so I do not wake the wife...then at night or when the wife is not going to be disturbed I use my open headphones.
Everybody remains happy, and when the wife is happy...I am *really *happy!  I have just recently sold the HD800 after many years with it, it was the reason I got an OTL from Glenn in the first place.  It just eventually ended up being the headphone that I reached for the least, if I listened 
to classical I suppose I would have kept it.

Whenever you want to listen with your speakers...just give your wife $100 and let her go shopping for the day  
Heck, in the end, whatever someone has to do to enjoy their music they have to do. At work I listen with a cheap dap and a $20 pair of JVC earbuds and that works for me, still very enjoyable.

I never in my wildest imagination thought that digital music with headphones would ever come this far and sound so good, but it has and the sound is so good and convenience is just off the hook, I will go to my grave listening to digital.

I look forward to getting the six power socket OTL from Glenn as I have lots of 6BL7/6BX7 to try and never was just quite happy with the adapters for those tubes.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT et al,
Re the LCD3 headphones, one of my grandsons has one, and I borrowed it some time back. My impression is exactly like yours: Volcanic bass but lopped off treble. 
The bass is the best that I have heard on headphones, but I found the treble lacking. Maybe there is a way to boost the treble response to match the fantastic bass, but I did not use them long enough to try a fix.


----------



## Monsterzero

Has anyone had the chance to compare the embossed vs. non-embossed C3Gs? Is there any noticeable SQ difference?


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Has anyone had the chance to compare the embossed vs. non-embossed C3Gs? Is there any noticeable SQ difference?



If you are talking about Siemens, in my opinion, the difference is small to none. But if you are talking about Lorenz, the difference is very noticeable.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> If you are talking about Siemens, in my opinion, the difference is small to none. But if you are talking about Lorenz, the difference is very noticeable.



Are there significant differences in sound between the Siemens and Lorenz?


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Are there significant differences in sound between the Siemens and Lorenz?



Yes, the embossed Lorenz are significantly darker than the embossed Siemens. Again, this holds for the older flat-black embossed cans. 

To the best of my knowledge, all C3g with shiny black cans with white text and graphics were manufactured by Siemens, regardless of brand. So all the later Telefunken, Valvo and Lorenz C3g with shiny black cans and white lettering are actually rebranded Siemens, as best as I can tell...


----------



## UsoppNoKami

gibosi said:


> Yes, the embossed Lorenz are significantly darker than the embossed Siemens. Again, this holds for the older flat-black embossed cans.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, all C3g with shiny black cans with white text and graphics were manufactured by Siemens, regardless of brand. So all the later Telefunken, Valvo and Lorenz C3g with shiny black cans and white lettering are actually rebranded Siemens, as best as I can tell...



Patiently waiting for my turn to start rolling these tubes... In the meantime, I hoard lol...


----------



## mordy (Mar 24, 2019)

Interesting read about the C3g tubes:
http://www.jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/Portraits/C3g/C3g-C3m-info.html
Can't remember the tube designation ATM, but there is a British C3g equivalent (with a different pin-out) made by a GEC subsidiary. However, I have never read about anybody using it. The prices are much lower than the C3g tubes.


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> Whenever you want to listen with your speakers...just give your wife $100 and let her go shopping for the day
> Heck, in the end, whatever someone has to do to enjoy their music they have to do. At work I listen with a cheap dap and a $20 pair of JVC earbuds and that works for me, still very enjoyable.
> 
> I never in my wildest imagination thought that digital music with headphones would ever come this far and sound so good, but it has and the sound is so good and convenience is just off the hook, I will go to my grave listening to digital.



Words of wisdom Joe, I like it!!!


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Interesting read about the C3g tubes:
> http://www.jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/Portraits/C3g/C3g-C3m-info.html
> Can't remember the tube designation ATM, but there is a British C3g equivalent (with a different pin-out) made by Brimar/ (GEC?). However, I have never read about anybody using it. The prices are much lower than the C3g tubes.


Found the tube I had in mind - it is called 5A/152M; no wonder I had trouble remembering it.
The strange tube designations were a part of a conscious effort of the British tube industry to confuse tube designations so that it would be difficult to compare prices with less expensive (US) tubes.





STC (Standard Telephone and Cables Ltd) was connected to Brimar.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Patiently waiting for my turn to start rolling these tubes... In the meantime, I hoard lol...



What are those Western Electric you got there?


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> What are those Western Electric you got there?


Looks like 3 (of a quad?) of 1977 WE 421A's.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> What are those Western Electric you got there?



A pair of 421A and a 422A


----------



## Monsterzero

UsoppNoKami said:


> A pair of 421A and a 422A



Great! Let me know how these super $ tubes sound with the Verite! Been eyeballing those tubes for awhile for the Verite,but I will wait until I hear your thoughts.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Monsterzero said:


> Great! Let me know how these super $ tubes sound with the Verite! Been eyeballing those tubes for awhile for the Verite,but I will wait until I hear your thoughts.



The 422A, Glenn told me it's the best sounding rectifier so I had to find one.. The 421As will face an A/B with TS 5998s for sure hehe. Don't have the amp yet, so impressions will be awhile off


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> A pair of 421A and a 422A



The 421a are the only choice power tubes that I haven’t tried.

Looks like you are set for the GOTL. The first tubes I rolled on the GOTL are the c3g and 6x 6bx7gt.


----------



## UntilThen

@UsoppNoKami  is that also a ecc32 labelled Adzam / Mullard?

That’s also another expensive driver I didn’t persue.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

@UntilThen I have had months to slowly pick up tubes - the perils of waiting in queue while reading all the poison on this thread... lol

I have a bunch of 6BX7 tubes - 6xGE, 2xRCA & 4xSylvania. An even bigger stash of 6x 6BL7s.. 6 packs of Tung Sol, RCAs and Sylvanias. A pair of Amperex labelled tubes too. They were cheap, so I just hoarded them whenever good testing ones popped up for sale. 

Also have a pair of 6080 mullard and pair of 6080 brimar.. pairs of 6336A and 6336B.. the latter tubes probably will get a lot of use as I love my planar cans.



UntilThen said:


> @UsoppNoKami  is that also a ecc32 labelled Adzam / Mullard?



Yeah it is. I love the ECC33 on my Schiit Freya preamp, so I picked up the ECC32 for the GOTL. Glenn also found me 12SNGT TS BGRP. Have obviously gone a bit bonkers before even getting hold of the amp.. now i am following your Sansui posts in the other thread with interest ....


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 25, 2019)

I finally got the balls to try the triple driver setup JV loves,albeit different tubes. HOLY HELL! This combo is intense!
EL8+Tung Sol 6SN7GT RP+GZ34+RCA 6080
Deep,tight,hard hitting bass,very nice pop to snares, wide staging,very deep holographic 3D imaging,and an almost surreal reverb in the mids,Not too great with aggressive music as all this added reverb slows the Verite down too much. Highly musical and fun. 

Pink Floyd and Peter Gabriel are crazy good with this combo! I feel like Im high...and im not, LOL!

I have a couple questions for the pros.

Is it safe to use 6BX7s as power tubes in the triple driver config,and if so,how many?
I also have a Tung Sol 6SU7GTY. Can that be used in the triple driver? ECC35?


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> I have a bunch of 6BX7 tubes - 6xGE, 2xRCA & 4xSylvania. An even bigger stash of 6x 6BL7s.. 6 packs of Tung Sol, RCAs and Sylvanias. A pair of Amperex labelled tubes too.



You're good with tubes. There should be many combinations there for you to find your preferred tone with your headphones. 

I've many good power tubes (such as GEC 6as7g, Tung Sol 5998, Bendix 6080w and GEC 6080) but ultimately I find myself gravitating to the 6 x 6bx7gt. No other OTL amps have this configured. It is unique in the GOTL. Other amps have to use adapters to be able to use sextet 6bx7gt but here it's all ready for blast off. Do experiment with the other power tubes and drivers combination too. That's the joy of this amp. 

This review was done quite a while ago and the author also favour using Sylvania 6sn7w with 6 x 6BL7.... and this is with his HD800 and Beyer T1. In the last one year, my favoured headphone has been the HD800 with the GOTL. There's great synergy here... at least to my ears and the author of the review has the same opinion. Remember at that time, I've HD800, LCD-2f, ZMF Eikon and Atticus but my most often use headphone then was the HD800. Your mileage may vary though and I readily accept that there will be difference of opinions and preference.

https://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/42754587

Fast forward to now... with the Sansui amps, I've a preference for the LCD-2f. It's a gale force driving the planar magnetic. For once, I'm actually listening to music because there's no tubes to roll. 

For the record, despite what everyone else is saying that OTL amps are not ideal for planar magnetics, I have to disagree... at least with the GOTL. Having heard for myself what GOTL can do with the LCD-2f, I've to say it's very ideal. The comparison is made against the Ragnarok driving the LCD-2f. Then again I do not think that the LCD-2f is a difficult to drive planar magnetic.

I've come to the conclusion that I like variety in tone and you'll get that in the GOTL and at least 2 contrasting sounding headphones.

Enjoy.


----------



## whirlwind

UsoppNoKami said:


> @UntilThen I have had months to slowly pick up tubes - the perils of waiting in queue while reading all the poison on this thread... lol
> 
> I have a bunch of 6BX7 tubes - 6xGE, 2xRCA & 4xSylvania. An even bigger stash of 6x 6BL7s.. 6 packs of Tung Sol, RCAs and Sylvanias. A pair of Amperex labelled tubes too. They were cheap, so I just hoarded them whenever good testing ones popped up for sale.
> 
> ...




You have a awesome collection of tubes for your GOTL, some of the best on the planet  
Very nice stash of 6BL7 tubes.  Great times ahead for you.
Wonderful collection of headphones as well.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I finally got the balls to try the triple driver setup JV loves,albeit different tubes. HOLY HELL! This combo is intense!
> EL8+Tung Sol 6SN7GT RP+GZ34+RCA 6080
> Deep,tight,hard hitting bass,very nice pop to snares, wide staging,very deep holographic 3D imaging,and an almost surreal reverb in the mids,Not too great with aggressive music as all this added reverb slows the Verite down too much. Highly musical and fun.
> 
> ...


The triple drivers is like a recipe- too much of this or that spoils or exaggerates certain aspects of the sound.
My favorites ATM are a NU 6N7GT with EL8 and 6H13C.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> I've come to the conclusion that I like variety in tone and you'll get that in the GOTL and at least 2 contrasting sounding headphones.
> 
> Enjoy.





whirlwind said:


> Wonderful collection of headphones as well.



I got in touch with Glenn to get in queue for the OTL amp right after pre-ordering the Verite Ltd, i'm hoping for great things from this pairing especially


----------



## whirlwind

UsoppNoKami said:


> I got in touch with Glenn to get in queue for the OTL amp right after pre-ordering the Verite Ltd, i'm hoping for great things from this pairing especially




I think you will be quite happy with the pairing, especially with all of the tubes you have accumulated....I see you amp will have the tube rectification and you have the grand daddy of rectifiers!
The wait for the amp can be awhile, but it is more than worth the wait.


----------



## mordy (Mar 25, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I finally got the balls to try the triple driver setup JV loves,albeit different tubes. HOLY HELL! This combo is intense!
> EL8+Tung Sol 6SN7GT RP+GZ34+RCA 6080
> Deep,tight,hard hitting bass,very nice pop to snares, wide staging,very deep holographic 3D imaging,and an almost surreal reverb in the mids,Not too great with aggressive music as all this added reverb slows the Verite down too much. Highly musical and fun.
> 
> ...


Hi Monsterzero,
Does this look familiar?




TS BGRP 6SN7GT, Valvo EL8 and RCA 6080 and a HEXFRED rectifier hiding somewhere.
The RCAs are showing off their tube glow:



Today a lot of tubes are sold singly, but just a few years ago you could buy these by the bushel for a couple of dollars a piece......- just counted 15 of them in my storage box.

After a half hour warm up *this combination sings*!
I completely agree with you - intense, highly musical and fun. Deep, tight, hard hitting bass, wide staging, very deep holographic 3D imaging. Highly musical and fun.
Another winner! WOW!


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 25, 2019)

Glad you liked it...my mind was blown last night. I kept listening til 3:30 am,and didnt want to stop.
What headphones did you use?

EDIT:

Just rolled in 6- GE 6BX7s + Ken-Rad VT231+GZ34+EL8

Nothing special. Lost most of the slam from the previous combo(which surprised me a bit) and the reverb,and 3D staging. The width seemed to go out a bit further,but other than that,although not bad,its nothing to write home about.

EDIT 2: Tung Sol 6SU7GTY makes a fine substitute for TS 6SN7 RP. Slightly less slam and reverb,but slightly better treble extension. Imaging and 3D are about par. Another great combo.


----------



## mordy

Hi Monsterzero,
I have the T1 and HD650 headphones but most of my listening is through speakers (Elac Debut B6) and an Elac S10 sub.
The GOTL is used as a preamp together with the tone controls on an old receiver (RR2150) and an even older 150W power amp (3006A).
I don't have the TS 6SU7GTY, but I have a number of different drivers to try.
For some reason it appears to me that the basis of the driver triplet is  the pair of the EL8 in the C3g sockets. The power tubes add flavor and substance; the third driver has a lot to do with the overall balance, tonality and punch. Some time back I tried a Russian Istok 6N3P and the bass became too strong.
The RCA 6080 have a great mid bass and this comes through in a full bodied and musical way with the above tube combination. The RCAs are a little noisier than the 6H13C but sound more punchy.
But I am just guessing about how the synergy works - it has to be trial and error. It is also interesting to me that adding power tubes (more than two) does not improve the sound (at least not so far).
The triple driver feature I think is unique to the GOTL (as well as the 6 power tube sockets) and probably was not intended to be used as such by the designer, but, as JV discovered, it really works very well.
I am sure that there will be new great synergistic combinations discovered.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> The triple driver feature I think is unique to the GOTL (as well as the 6 power tube sockets) and probably was not intended to be used as such by the designer, but, as JV discovered, it really works very well.
> I am sure that there will be new great synergistic combinations discovered.



Im finding myself addicted to that roll. I tried a couple others tonight,but eventually came back to my original that I posted earlier. Listening to Gary Moore "Midnight Blues" atm...beautiful.
I should note that the roll wasnt as impressive on my Auteurs,but for whatever reason the Verite loves this combo.


----------



## whirlwind

"Midnight Blues".....What a great song from a great player...miss Gary a lot.


----------



## Monsterzero

Well...I guess the tube gods simply do not want me to experience GEC tubes.

The B36 I bought is listed as delivered yesterday,but I never got it. Coupled with the GEC 4v rectifier that makes sound(bad) but doesnt get warm or glow.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Well...I guess the tube gods simply do not want me to experience GEC tubes.
> 
> The B36 I bought is listed as delivered yesterday,but I never got it. Coupled with the GEC 4v rectifier that makes sound(bad) but doesnt get warm or glow.


Check with your local post office - this has happened to me as well. The tube showed up the next day.
If you bought the tubes via eBay/PayPal you have good protection.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Check with your local post office - this has happened to me as well. The tube showed up the next day.
> If you bought the tubes via eBay/PayPal you have good protection.



I did use Paypal. Called USPS,waiting for a call back,which should happen sometime before the year ends.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I did use Paypal. Called USPS,waiting for a call back,which should happen sometime before the year ends.


Try to google the number to your local post office - sometimes they pick up. 
I used to go down to my local post office and actually got somebody to look into things and call me back, but that was a monumental effort.
Also had luck with contacting PayPal which called the post office - the post office responded to that and called me.


----------



## leftside

I'm on first name terms with the ladies at my post office. Sometimes they call me to let me know packages have arrived - even if I have a delivery notice. I think my wife thinks I'm having an affair with one of them lol.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 26, 2019)

Mailman delivered to wrong address. Have the GEC B36 now. 

Seller included another rather beatup looking 12SN7 tube. Can anyone ID this one?


----------



## Monsterzero

Are the 5998s safe to run in triple driver combo? 
I was loaned a pair by a very generous member here and they sound excellent with EL8s. Safe to add a 3rd driver?


----------



## Althalus

Monsterzero said:


> Mailman delivered to wrong address. Have the GEC B36 now.


Happy you recieved your tube.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Mailman delivered to wrong address. Have the GEC B36 now.
> 
> Seller included another rather beatup looking 12SN7 tube. Can anyone ID this one?


Silvertone was sold by Radio Shack and usually were made by Sylvania. The EIA number (Electronics Industry Association) for Sylvania is 312 and possibly this tube has that number on the base. 
H0M means August 1960 Factory M(?)
80 also means August 1960.
If you are using a pair of 5998 as the power tubes and then EL8 and any 6/12SN7 type driver there is no problem for the amp.
Glad to hear that you got the tube! I am still waiting for a pair of Russian tubes swallowed up by US customs almost two years ago....


----------



## Monsterzero

WOW! The B36 sounds amazing!!!!


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Seller included another rather beatup looking 12SN7 tube. Can anyone ID this one?



As Mordy correctly surmised, that 12SN7GT was manufactured by Sylvania.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Mailman delivered to wrong address. Have the GEC B36 now.
> 
> Seller included another rather beatup looking 12SN7 tube. Can anyone ID this one?



Can’t tell if it’s a 2 hole or 3 hole bad boy. Both are great but if you got the 3 hole then you’re in for another treat.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> Can’t tell if it’s a 2 hole or 3 hole bad boy. Both are great but if you got the 3 hole then you’re in for another treat.



While the picture quality is too poor to make out construction details, as Mordy pointed out, the date code "H0M means August 1960". The three-holes were manufactured only in the early 1950's, so this likely has two holes. But then, it was a freebie.


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 26, 2019)

gibosi said:


> While the picture quality is too poor to make out construction details, as Mordy pointed out, the date code "H0M means August 1960". The three-holes were manufactured only in the early 1950's, so this likely has two holes. But then, it was a freebie.



Very true. A free tube is a free tube.


----------



## Monsterzero

Its time for my family duties,but later tonight I will sit down and do some listening.
The B36+5998s+GZ34 sounds very nice on the Verites. Crisp,clean,airy,great sub bass. Diggin' the combo.
Will roll in the EL8s and see how that goes.

So you guys think that Silvertone is worth trying out? Looks like someone dug it up outta the back yard.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Its time for my family duties,but later tonight I will sit down and do some listening.
> The B36+5998s+GZ34 sounds very nice on the Verites. Crisp,clean,airy,great sub bass. Diggin' the combo.
> Will roll in the EL8s and see how that goes.
> 
> So you guys think that Silvertone is worth trying out? Looks like someone dug it up outta the back yard.



You got it for free why not try it you can tell it is new or has low hours on it by the lack of black spots above the cathodes/filaments.
Silvertone was Sears brand. Sears TVs were Silvertone who made it? Might sound OK especially if made by Sylvania.
Clean it up and use it.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> WOW! The B36 sounds amazing!!!!


Hi Monsterzero,
Today I rolled a number of drivers with the EL8/RCA6080 - 6SN7W, GE 12SL7GT, 13D1. Started with TS BGRP 6SN7GT and finished with another TS  BGRP 12SN7GT (Arcturus).
While the other tubes are OK, the real magic so far only appears with the Tung Sol tubes - this sound presentation is really special. Interesting that I have to wait about 30 minutes before the tube plays at its best.
Here is a picture of my specially modified Arcturus driver with ETG technology (Enhanced Tube Glow) achieved through a special soon to be patented magnetic process:


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> You got it for free why not try it you can tell it is new or has low hours on it by the lack of black spots above the cathodes/filaments.
> Silvertone was Sears brand. Sears TVs were Silvertone who made it? Might sound OK especially if made by Sylvania.
> Clean it up and use it.


You are right - Sears and not Radio Shack (which used the Realistic name) - sorry for the error.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 26, 2019)

mordy said:


> Interesting that I have to wait about 30 minutes before the tube plays at its best.



Ive noticed that this combo takes up to an hour before it really starts to sound great. I do find that the bass can be a bit unruly on the Verite on some songs,so tonight I will try the 5998s and see how that goes.

Any Glenn owners using a tube DAC in their system? Thoughts? Too much of a good thing,or great,or somewhere in between?


----------



## attmci (Mar 26, 2019)

What the hell? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-6SN...819972?hash=item1cbdc3f384:g:bYwAAOSwQqZbzVAc

Any one have one of this?

Hope it's not Mehrbach. The guy is selling a couple of ZMF Auteur. Must be a dealer. LOL

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZMF-Auteur...m1cbdc41782:g:zigAAOSwUulbzVKq&frcectupt=true


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> What the hell? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-6SN...819972?hash=item1cbdc3f384:g:bYwAAOSwQqZbzVAc
> 
> Any one have one of this?
> 
> ...



I have one. It's a very nice tube, often described as lush, sweet and euphonic, but a pair is certainly not worth that price. lol


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> What the hell? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-6SN...819972?hash=item1cbdc3f384:g:bYwAAOSwQqZbzVAc
> 
> Any one have one of this?
> 
> ...



The Brimar 13D1 is the same tube for under $20 if your amp can take a 25SN7. The 25.2 volt filament makes it not worth much
because almost no amps can use it.
The Brimar 6SN7 is a 13D2 look that one up for cost.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Ive noticed that this combo takes up to an hour before it really starts to sound great. I do find that the bass can be a bit unruly on the Verite on some songs,so tonight I will try the 5998s and see how that goes.
> 
> Any Glenn owners using a tube DAC in their system? Thoughts? Too much of a good thing,or great,or somewhere in between?


Tube DACs and tube preamp here. You can plug and play with good new production tubes like Gold Lions, and leave it at that, or you could follow me down the rabbit hole... Purchased the Lampizator Euforia DAC for $1100, and the DSD engine sounds as good as DACs costing a lot more. The reason why it's so "cheap" is because it only accepts a DSD signal, so you need to use something like Roon or JRiver. Very easy to configure though.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Tube DACs and tube preamp here. You can plug and play with good new production tubes like Gold Lions, and leave it at that, or you could follow me down the rabbit hole... Purchased the Lampizator Euforia DAC for $1100, and the DSD engine sounds as good as DACs costing a lot more. The reason why it's so "cheap" is because it only accepts a DSD signal, so you need to use something like Roon or JRiver. Very easy to configure though.



Sitting down with the S.O. to watch some hoops,but will PM you later.


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> What the hell? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-6SN...819972?hash=item1cbdc3f384:g:bYwAAOSwQqZbzVAc
> 
> Any one have one of this?
> 
> ...


Or you could buy four of these and a couple of adapters:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CV1932-TUBE-GEC-BRIMAR-BROWN-BLACK-BASE-6J5-G-L63-QUAD-4-PCS/254178171811


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> The Brimar 13D1 is the same tube for under $20 if your amp can take a 25SN7. The 25.2 volt filament makes it not worth much
> because almost no amps can use it.
> The Brimar 6SN7 is a 13D2 look that one up for cost.


I will keep an eye on it. Never know that b4. I have one of that crazy priced tube, however, I need a pair for my amp.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> I have one. It's a very nice tube, often described as lush, sweet and euphonic, but a pair is certainly not worth that price. lol


I won't buy at that price, even if someone puts a gun to my head. NO.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Or you could buy four of these and a couple of adapters:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CV1932-TUBE-GEC-BRIMAR-BROWN-BLACK-BASE-6J5-G-L63-QUAD-4-PCS/254178171811


SOLD


----------



## attmci (Mar 26, 2019)

leftside said:


> Or you could buy four of these and a couple of adapters:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CV1932-TUBE-GEC-BRIMAR-BROWN-BLACK-BASE-6J5-G-L63-QUAD-4-PCS/254178171811


This must be Ken.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-CV-1988-6SN7/254159366474?hash=item3b2d14294a:g:rHMAAOSwzOxchgb4

Have you tried to use one CV 1988 and one ECC 33 on your amp? You should give it a try. That will make your new headphone sounds more lush, organic, romantic, and euphoric than using pairs.  LOL 

























JK Don't do that.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> The Brimar 13D1 is the same tube for under $20 if your amp can take a 25SN7. The 25.2 volt filament makes it not worth much
> because almost no amps can use it.
> The Brimar 6SN7 is a 13D2 look that one up for cost.



They do sound very similar, and in fact, to my ears, the 13D1 sounds a bit better. Depending on the system, I often find the bass of the Brimar 6SN7GTY to be a little too thick and heavy.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Or you could buy four of these and a couple of adapters:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CV1932-TUBE-GEC-BRIMAR-BROWN-BLACK-BASE-6J5-G-L63-QUAD-4-PCS/254178171811



The GEC L63 is 1/2 of a GEC B65 for less cost. But the GEC B36 is probably cheaper.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> The GEC L63 is 1/2 of a GEC B65 for less cost. But the GEC B36 is probably cheaper.


How about these GEC tubes - $50/pair shipped (or best offer):





https://www.ebay.com/itm/1MP-CV6-DE...m2f2baa99f5:g:HccAAOSwHDJcUslX&frcectupt=true
The seller seems to have a boat full of these....


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> How about these GEC tubes - $50/pair shipped (or best offer):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those require an adapter,yes?
Are they worth picking up?


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> How about these GEC tubes - $50/pair shipped (or best offer):


Some people swear by the 7193, so I'd say these are definitely worth a try. My only concern is the seller usually charges twice as much as other sellers. I'm amazed he sells any tubes. But, in this case there doesn't appear to be any other sellers...

These would date from around 1945 I guess. I'm tempted to pick up a couple myself, I already have the adapters.


----------



## gibosi

And another viewpoint....  Speaking only for myself.... It is likely that they sound very similar to the GEC B36, and since the GEC B36 is cheaper, and these require adapters, I don't think they are worth it.... 

But of course, YMMV.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Those require an adapter,yes?
> Are they worth picking up?


Here is the adapter:




https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-7...646171?hash=item2cd278155b:g:t7oAAOSw89Na0GR9
We need Glenn to weigh in if these tubes are a suitable substitute for the L63. You would need a pair in the front 6SN7 socket.
There are US made tubes of this type that sell for very little - Ken-Rad and NU among others.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> I already have the adapters.



This one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6...5-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191551519526


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> This one?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6...5-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191551519526


Yep


----------



## mordy (Mar 26, 2019)

gibosi said:


> And another viewpoint....  Speaking only for myself.... It is likely that they sound very similar to the GEC B36, and since the GEC B36 is cheaper, and these require adapters, I don't think they are worth it....
> 
> But of course, YMMV.





gibosi said:


> And another viewpoint....  Speaking only for myself.... It is likely that they sound very similar to the GEC B36, and since the GEC B36 is cheaper, and these require adapters, I don't think they are worth it....
> 
> But of course, YMMV.


Just looked now at eBay USA and UK - not a single one available (unless I missed something). The ones sold were not cheap either:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
The least expensive rebranded ones went in the $60 range each incl shipping.
PS: Found for sale a couple of Marconi branded for $100 each and up.


----------



## mordy

Hi attmci,
NO guns:




https://www.ebay.com/itm/1MP-2Pcs-G...956223?hash=item2f2deccb7f:g:MN8AAOSwtRNclyTU
At least the shipping is free.....


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1MP-2Pcs-G...956223?hash=item2f2deccb7f:g:MN8AAOSwtRNclyTU
> At least the shipping is free.....


GB tubes with GB date codes


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Here is the adapter:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These tubes will work fine in the GOTL with that adapter. I purchased 4 NU for $6 each. Great tubes for the price, but I purchased them just to try them out. No revelations here I'm afraid though. Not cheap GEC killers


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> What the hell? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-6SN...819972?hash=item1cbdc3f384:g:bYwAAOSwQqZbzVAc
> 
> Any one have one of this?



For 2 weeks in Feb 2018, I spend time with Woo Audio WA5LE that had a pair of these as drivers. I remember my friend told me he bought them for $400 in Hong Kong. That was a beautiful 2 weeks because my GOTL has been in my possession for 2 months and it had Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6bx7gt.

I remember that I preferred listening to the GOTL over the WA5, each with their respective choice tubes.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1226#post-14033369


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> WOW! The B36 sounds amazing!!!!



What did you expect?  It's one of my magnificent 7 but that was before the arrival of my ECC33, ECC35, TS 12SL7GT and TS 12SN7GT bgrp..... and of course much later EL3N, EL8 and EL11.

So many beautiful drivers for GOTL. You have to be a monk not to be thrilled.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Those require an adapter,yes?
> Are they worth picking up?



If you already have a B36 I would not bother buying them.  Tubes with a grid cap tend to pick up noise on the wire leading to it.
Most GEC tubes sound good if you didn't have the B36 I would say go for it.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> If you already have a B36 I would not bother buying them.  Tubes with a grid cap tend to pick up noise on the wire leading to it.
> Most GEC tubes sound good if you didn't have the B36 I would say go for it.



In my experience so far, adapters that take two or more tubes can be damn finicky, then add grid wires on top of that and sooner or later back round noise seems to want to creep in.
Since most people are trying to find quiet solutions with their tubes, this just brings things into the equation that do not need to be there.
I know many people have had good luck with the adapters from China, but I am not one of them, LOL. In my opinion you just end up with a shoe box full of adapters that you hardly ever use.
After awhile it seems like a dog chasing his tale...lol
Might as well spend that money on some good tubes that are plug and play in your amp.
the best advise you ever gave was the KISS theory...it is so true...don't over think it.

There are so many tubes to use in this amp that there is really no need to go chasing the next great sound, unless you are a collector of tubes...then by all means ...go and get them.

Heck, save your money and treat yourself to a good driver tube every now and then......the ones that UT has listed above would be enough to last a life time and there is not a bad one in the bunch.

The one tube adapters seem to work fine, the multiple tube adapters from China, one you get them in your amp, you don't even want to touch them, for fear of noise.
I know, you do not have the time to make them anymore because of all of the amp builds that you are busy with...but your adapters are far superior to any i have ever bought from e-bay.
Shamless plug for me to get another 6F8gg adapter from you when you build my amp...with the big brown grid cap....lol


----------



## UntilThen

I agree Joe. I like a clean look and that means as little adapter as possible. You have to admit this is a beautiful picture of a beautiful amp.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I agree Joe. I like a clean look and that means as little adapter as possible. You have to admit this is a beautiful picture of a beautiful amp.



Yes sir it most certainly is, simple, elegant, sounds great and eliminates the chance of any unnecessary back round noise from any added adapters, for the folks that can't stand that kind of stuff.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> Yes sir it most certainly is, simple, elegant, sounds great and eliminates the chance of any unnecessary back round noise from any added adapters, for the folks that can't stand that kind of stuff.


Hey, that's me. Tried very hard to avoid adapters. However, for a couple type of tubes, you have to use it......


----------



## gibosi

I would add...  given that these multi-tube adapters are a PITA, it really isn't worth it unless you want to try something that is significantly different than anything else out there. For example, a pair of No 27 triodes.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

2359glenn said:


> If you already have a B36 I would not bother buying them.  Tubes with a grid cap tend to pick up noise on the wire leading to it.
> Most GEC tubes sound good if you didn't have the B36 I would say go for it.



still hunting for a pair of GEC 6AS7G in the price range that you bought your set, Glenn

hehe


----------



## leftside

As I’ve been tube rolling for a while, the multi-adapter tubes were the last I tried. Primarily so I could use more of my favourite brand (GEC) of tubes. This is also the only way you’ll get to experience the ST “coke bottle” L63 and 6J5 tubes. These are beautiful tubes, and dead silent in my slightly temperamental WA22, so should also be dead silent with the GOTL. They are at the same level as the B65 and ECC32.

This is one of the rare occasions I’d say the amp looks ok with an adapter due to the nice looking ST style tubes. I’m currently using the Chinese adapters, but Deyan is currently building me custom adapters. If you don’t like the Chinese adapters, you can always contact Deyan.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 27, 2019)

After spending last night listening to the loaner 5998s until the wee hours of the AM,first with the GEC B36 and then the Mullard ECC35,I realized just how badly my system needs a permanent upgrade in the power tube area.
Im really enjoying the 5998s,but want to know what everyones opinions are of the other god-tier tubes.

5998 vs. GEC 6AS7G (cant find any) vs. Bendix 6080 wb. Any others im sleeping on?

What are the primary sound differences,which do you guys prefer,and why?

Also,any rectifier recs that have an airy,diffused sound. All my working rectifiers are varying shades of warm. Want to mix it up.

FWIW I prefer the GEC B36+5998s for the Verite over the ECC35.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> After spending last night listening to the loaner 5998s until the wee hours of the AM,first with the GEC B36 and then the Mullard ECC35,I realized just how badly my system needs a permanent upgrade in the power tube area.
> Im really enjoying the 5998s,but want to know what everyones opinions are of the other god-tier tubes.
> 
> 5998 vs. GEC 6AS7G (cant find any) vs. Bendix 6080 wb. Any others im sleeping on?
> ...



I’m in the same boat when it comes to the GEC 6AS7G and GEC 6080. They are very rare and very hard to find. I believe Hifishark pulls up the last one sold around 2017. It’s possible that Langrex may have a pair to sell or Stavros. 

Bendix 6080WB can be found but for $400 a pair that’s pretty exhorbitant.  You can get a Tung-Sol 5998 pair for around $250 or two Tungsol / Chatham 7236 for $90. On the other hand I would definitely fork the money over for the GECs.


----------



## Monsterzero

The money isnt really the issue,within reason. Im willing to fork over the cash,but this will be a one-time splurge,my reward for winning my fantasy basketball league this year. Because its a one-time thing,I want to make the right choice.
So, 5998 vs. GEC 6AS7G vs. Bendix 6080wb,if all were same price theoretically,which of those provides what that the others do not?


----------



## mordy

I have all three, and I am currently using the RCA 6080 in the GOTL lol.
Don't know anybody who uses the Bendix 6080 in the GOTL.
Another top level power tube is the GEC 6080 but they are also pricey.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> I have all three, and I am currently using the RCA 6080 in the GOTL lol.



Yeah,the RCA 6080 for the price,I enjoy quite a bit,but the 5998s took the air,staging,bass depth and clarity to a whole other lvl on the Verite. For the Auteurs and my HD250s the 5998s werent that great as both can come off as being on the bright side for my tastes. The Verite will be my end game headphone until Zach comes out with something better(have mercy on my wallet @zach915m ) so im trying to squeeze every ounce of goodness out of them.


----------



## UntilThen

Lefty, I do admit that picture of those L63 looks nice and that's because you arranged it symmetrically and neatly. In the company with the W421a and U52, it's a very rich tone... in every sense of the word.


----------



## UntilThen

One day, some time in the distant past, after several scotch, gin and tonic, I decided to write something about my power tubes. Rather than the usual audiophile way of describing these tubes, I thought I will present it in the AA way. So with my own consent because I'm the author, I shall quote it here again, with some alterations because the original is unprintable:-

*Farmer's tubes*

RCA 6080 - great for Johnny Lee Hooker, Jimmy Hendrick, Tupac, 50cents and all metal bands. Can't go wrong here. Strong bass, sand paper roughness to give Johnny's voice more credence.

GE 6AS7GA - For $10 a tube, don't ask me to do a one page review. It will produce tube warm and is quite engaging if you don't care too much about hearing everything... because you won't hear everything.

RCA 6AS7G - these aren't cheap anymore. I'm actually quite intrigued by these again. I think there's some use for these. They are probably the warmest, baddest ass bass producers. They will probably turn your HD800 into a LCD2.2. Amazing right. So get a pair and thank me later.

Svetlana 6H13C - I actually think they are not bad at all. Of course they are no where near the premium tubes but for the price, the enjoyment factor is quite high. So before you dash out and buy the above, know that these tubes can hold a candle to the others tiny flame.

*Middle class tubes*

Chatham 6AS7G - airy, breezy, fresh as morning sunshine.

Mullard 6080 - sweet Caroline, they are more sharp and energetic compared to the 'rounder' GEC 6080 but in my opinion, more fatiguing in long term listening. Alright before I rubbish this tube further, let me say that I actually like the Mullard 6080 very much. All tubes in this class have some class. They are that good.

Chatham 6520 - similar to the Chatham 6AS7G.

Tung Sol 7236 - this is a very interesting tube. It is the leaner brother of the Tung Sol 5998. Now you're stepping into classier territory and more damaging to your wallet. So beware....

*Aristocratic tubes.*

GEC 6as7g - Holy grail. Need I say more. When you have this, your only regret is you have only one pair. You are not going to worry that your bank manager has turn to whisky in the morning. You are not going to worry that the sun don't shine because the GEC 6as7g will shine brighter than the sun. Characteristics are smooth, slight warm, superb texture and despite the warm tilt, amazing clarity.

Bendix 6080wb - Sounds a lot darker and warmer than the GEC 6as7g, with a pronounced bass. In fact amazing bass weight and soundstage.

Tung Sol 5998 - this is the jack of all trades and master of nearly all. They call him the benchmark but he's more useful off the bench believe me. Energetic and impactful, with a sheen to the tone. It's a lively tone.

GEC 6080 - much lighter in tone than the GEC 6as7g but with very good clarity. Love using this tube with jazz of the George Benson variety.


However, despite all these, I still use my 6 x 6bx7gt most of the time. YMMV.


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 27, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> One day, some time in the distant past, after several scotch, gin and tonic, I decided to write something about my power tubes. Rather than the usual audiophile way of describing these tubes, I thought I will present it in the AA way. So with my own consent because I'm the author, I shall quote it here again, with some alterations because the original is unprintable:-
> 
> *Farmer's tubes*
> 
> ...





Ha, great read.
I definitely agree with the last four power tubes being the best, at least to my ears, but as you say....everybody's mileage may vary.
For the price, probably still tuff to beat six 6BL7/6BX7

For your next tier up...the Chatham 6AS7G is the one I like the best, but again....everybody will hear these differently depending on the rest of the chain and what headphones they use.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> One day, some time in the distant past, after several scotch, gin and tonic, I decided to write something about my power tubes. Rather than the usual audiophile way of describing these tubes, I thought I will present it in the AA way. So with my own consent because I'm the author, I shall quote it here again, with some alterations because the original is unprintable:-
> 
> *Farmer's tubes*
> 
> ...


Hi UT,
Very funny - very much enjoyed your impressions. The only tube on your list that I don't have is the TS/Chatham 6520. 
(I think that you have to add the Sylvania/Philips 6080 to the list somewhere.)

Now, all these tubes get high praise, but, the GOTL was designed differently than other amps; it was designed to sound great with inexpensive tubes, and the rules are different.
It appears to me that what we need is a top tube synergy list, but this is a work in progress.
No doubt you will contribute to this list when you get back your amp. Special prizes to the least expensive great sounding combinations.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> One day, some time in the distant past, after several scotch, gin and tonic, I decided to write something about my power tubes. Rather than the usual audiophile way of describing these tubes, I thought I will present it in the AA way. So with my own consent because I'm the author, I shall quote it here again, with some alterations because the original is unprintable:-
> 
> *Farmer's tubes*
> 
> ...



Great review UT,thanks!



mordy said:


> Now, all these tubes get high praise, but, the GOTL was designed differently than other amps; it was designed to sound great with inexpensive tubes, and the rules are different.



True,but some headphones,like the Verite can be a bit of a fickle bird. I def hear a *massive* improvement using the 5998s over my other tubes(Cetron/Chatham 6336)and RCA 6080s.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> I’m in the same boat when it comes to the GEC 6AS7G and GEC 6080. They are very rare and very hard to find. I believe Hifishark pulls up the last one sold around 2017. It’s possible that Langrex may have a pair to sell or Stavros.
> 
> Bendix 6080WB can be found but for $400 a pair that’s pretty exhorbitant.  You can get a Tung-Sol 5998 pair for around $250 or two Tungsol / Chatham 7236 for $90. On the other hand I would definitely fork the money over for the GECs.




I remember a few years back, @gibosi scored a beautiful pair of black base GEC 6AS7G tubes, when the seller did not realize what he had.
Maybe he will post a pic of them, the only black base ones that I have ever seen.


----------



## mordy

I think they were labeled Marconi:


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> I think they were labeled Marconi:



From my brief time in looking at tubes Marconis are not cheap either.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> I think they were labeled Marconi:




Yes, I believe this is them.
Tubes with this construction whether labeled GEC, Marconi , or Osram are all the same tube.
If i recall correctly, @gibosi got these at a great price.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> From my brief time in looking at tubes Marconis are not cheap either.



The exact relationship between the GEC, Marconi and Osram companies was rather complicated and changed over time. But as Whirlwind points out, all these tubes were manufactured in the same factory in Hammersmith, regardless of the brand, and can be considered identical. That said, very generally, tubes sporting the Marconi and Osram brands are older and those sporting the GEC brand are newer.

The tubes pictured above, with black bases, were manufactured in 1949. The brown miconal base doesn't appear until somewhat later.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> But as Whirlwind points out, all these tubes were manufactured in the same factory in Hammersmith, regardless of the brand, and can be considered identical.



The album below is my new mantra


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> The album below is my new mantra



RIP Lemmy. Saw Motorhead a few times including at Newcastle/England, Hammersmith/England (don't think it was that gig from above tho) and Toronto/Canada. 

If you are listening to a live gig from Hammersmith, then you need the GEC tubes that were made at the Hammersmith factory


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> RIP Lemmy. Saw Motorhead a few times including at Newcastle/England, Hammersmith/England (don't think it was that gig from above tho) and Toronto/Canada.
> 
> If you are listening to a live gig from Hammersmith, then you need the GEC tubes that were made at the Hammersmith factory



Saw Motorhead numerous times in L.A.
Last saw them at Jones Beach on Long Island in June. He looked weak,fragile. Was wearing slippers on stage as opposed to his trademark boots. By December of that same year he was dead.
RIP Lem


----------



## 2359glenn

UsoppNoKami said:


> still hunting for a pair of GEC 6AS7G in the price range that you bought your set, Glenn
> 
> hehe



Here is a set if the price stays as it is.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pa...068322?hash=item4692784d22:g:4-sAAOSwIfBclhnZ


----------



## UsoppNoKami

2359glenn said:


> Here is a set if the price stays as it is.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pa...068322?hash=item4692784d22:g:4-sAAOSwIfBclhnZ



Hahaha the cats out of the bag Glenn, expect the last minute vultures


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Here is a set if the price stays as it is.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pa...068322?hash=item4692784d22:g:4-sAAOSwIfBclhnZ




Looks like the last couple of pair on e-bay sold for $540 & $660...that is plain crazy!!


----------



## 2359glenn

UsoppNoKami said:


> Hahaha the cats out of the bag Glenn, expect the last minute vultures



That didn't happen to the pair I bought stayed at $400. Plus I knew the person selling them so I knew they were good.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

2359glenn said:


> That didn't happen to the pair I bought stayed at $400. Plus I knew the person selling them so I knew they were good.



Well, I did already put a bid on this pair, let's see how it goes. Won't be chasing auction records lol


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Looks like the last couple of pair on e-bay sold for $540 & $660...that is plain crazy!!



Really? I should let mine go as I only look at it and admire it. Done no more than 30 hours.


----------



## UntilThen

I recall this to be a very nice sounding combo. The ECC31 providing the warmth to blend with the slight brightness and oomph of the Cetron 6336b to provide a very balance sound. That's how I like the GOTL to look. Simple and elegant.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Really? I should let mine go as I only look at it and admire it. Done no more than 30 hours.




Yes, when I looked under completed auctions, that is what the last two pair sold for.

I do not use mine much either, basically on special occasions...I am keeping them though because I much enjoy my small amount of time with them.
I feel like I am treating myself to great pleasures when I listen to them.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I feel like I am treating myself to great pleasures when I listen to them.



For me it’s guilty pleasures 

On another subject my Audeze LCD 3 should be arriving next week. It’s less than one year old and the owner isn’t sure if it’s fazor or non fazor as the manufacture date is Sept 2015. 

So with the serial number and date I wrote to Audeze.....


----------



## Monsterzero

If it has sharp ridges that you can feel with your fingers inside the baffle its a fazor.


----------



## UntilThen

Audeze reply...

Thanks for your inquiry. Any LCD-3s with serial number starting with 27 or higher should have Fazors. Any starting with 26 will be a pre-Fazor model unless the drivers were serviced after the beginning of Fazor production, which began in January 2014.

The best way to check for sure is to feel for the Fazors inside the earcup: if you feel a flat metal stator plate with openings in it under the mesh, your headphones have no Fazors; if you feel the tips of triangles, those are the Fazors themselves.


As my LCD3 serial number is 282..... it is definitely a fazor version. Which is ok as my LCD-2f is fazor.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> If it has sharp ridges that you can feel with your fingers inside the baffle its a fazor.



Looks like you’re an Audeze man !


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Looks like you’re an Audeze man !


I was until I discovered ZMF.
I do miss that prodigious sub bass extension  but the HD250 gives me that for much less cash  plus better highs  
If I listened to a lot of trance I'd still prolly have an Audeze, but the mids are more important to me  and Audeze cannot compete with ZMF in that regard, though I've yet to hear an LCD 4


----------



## UntilThen

I want to listen to Mighty Sam McClain ‘Give it up to love’ on this headphone.

It’s my first audiophile CD from the JVC label. Had it for 30 years!!! It’s somewhere have to search for it.


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 28, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> For me it’s guilty pleasures
> 
> On another subject my Audeze LCD 3 should be arriving next week. It’s less than one year old and the owner isn’t sure if it’s fazor or non fazor as the manufacture date is Sept 2015.
> 
> So with the serial number and date I wrote to Audeze.....




Congrats, it is a great headphone....I got the pre-fazor just because I did not want to give up any of the sub-bass and I have tilted my preferences slightly towards a little darker headphone, one with a tad of rolled off treble.

The mids are silky smooth, like milk chocolate, can listen for hours with no fatigue.

I have never heard the fazor, but I would not think that there would be a very huge difference between them.

Your OTL will drive them, no problem....I would guess that your vintage receivers would be a beautiful match for them. They are not as hard to drive as the ZMF Ori that I have and they sound great from all of my amps. the GEL3N will drive them in one tube mode and the GS-X mk2 will drive them at low gain, but I usually do not use that.

A pair of 6AS7G tubes drives them nice in the OTL.  Since you already own the LCD 2 , I would imagine you will like the LCD 3.
I have never heard the LCD 2, but would like too.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I want to listen to Mighty Sam McClain ‘Give it up to love’ on this headphone.
> 
> It’s my first audiophile CD from the JVC label. Had it for 30 years!!! It’s somewhere have to search for it.




"Mighty"  Sam McClain will sound great.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> .I would guess that your vintage receivers would be a beautiful match for them.



Indeed they are.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> Yes, when I looked under completed auctions, that is what the last two pair sold for.
> 
> I do not use mine much either, basically on special occasions...I am keeping them though because I much enjoy my small amount of time with them.
> I feel like I am treating myself to great pleasures when I listen to them.


Tubes are consumables.........


----------



## Monsterzero

I respect not wanting to use up a vintage tube,but if I buy em,im using them


----------



## UntilThen

The GEC 6as7g are the last of the Mohicans. Please keep the box. In 10 years time, the box will be priceless.


----------



## attmci (Mar 28, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I was until I discovered ZMF.
> I do miss that prodigious sub bass extension  but the HD250 gives me that for much less cash  plus better highs
> If I listened to a lot of trance I'd still prolly have an Audeze, but the mids are more important to me  and Audeze cannot compete with ZMF in that regard, though I've yet to hear an LCD 4


I am taking note of this. I will give Mehrbach a couple more years to improve. 

Ready For The Times To Get Better


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> How about these GEC tubes - $50/pair shipped (or best offer):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, make sure you keep that box too.


----------



## UntilThen

It's GEC day. These are the *vintage boxes* you want.


----------



## mordy (Mar 28, 2019)

attmci said:


> Yup, make sure you keep that box too.


I already have such a box for my Mullard ECC31 of undetermined vintage, but probably from the 40's. Based on the water marks on the box it is obvious that this tube was a Navy issue.



The box with original cardboard wrapper is for sale (not the tube) to the highest bidder.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> I already have such a box for my Mullard ECC31 of undetermined vintage, but probably from the 40's. Based on the water marks on the box it is obvious that this tube was a Navy issue.
> 
> The box with original cardboard wrapper is for sale (not the tube) to the highest bidder.


I cannot see only label on the box. So I won't bid.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> I cannot see only label on the box. So I won't bid.


The box has no label - it speaks for itself......


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> The box has no label - it speaks for itself......



Im interested in the black material in the background. Is it NOS?


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 28, 2019)

Yeah that beater Silvertone 12sn7 sounds pretty nice 

Are the 5998 tubes low ohm like the 6336s? My K701s sound very nice with them in.

Any thoughts on the Tung Sol 6sn7gt mouse ears?

I put in a bid on one and got outbid. Wondering if its worth pursuing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/352625710531?ul_noapp=true


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Im interested in the black material in the background. Is it NOS?


The black material is a piece of thick foam padding from some box - I am sure you have something like that lying around. Works well as background for photos.
Re Tung Sol tubes the driver that sounds the best to me in the GOTL is the the 6SN7 with black glass and round plates. Unfortunately they became very expensive. There are rebranded ones under the GE, Emerson, Hyvac and Arcturus names among others, and sometimes the seller doesn't know what he has and they sell for very little money.
(Which reminds me to try a TS 6F8G with my new EL8/6080 combo - the 6F8G is supposed to be a precursor to the 6SN7.)




They are very easy to identify with the black RF shield inside the glass and the inexpensive ones get sold very quickly.
Wonder how long this pair will take to sell...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-pair-Tun...123167?hash=item261829649f:g:x7AAAOSwj61cbDSn


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> The black material is a piece of thick foam padding from some box - I am sure you have something like that lying around.



I know Mordy,I was just being goofy. 



mordy said:


> Re Tung Sol tubes the driver that sounds the best to me in the GOTL is the the 6SN7 with black glass and round plates.



Yep. I already have the TS RP. Was just curious about the Mouse Ear variety,and was it worth grabbing for a bit of variety.


----------



## UntilThen

Mickey Mouse should be good. It's got an extra pair of ears to hear more.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Re Tung Sol tubes the driver that sounds the best to me in the GOTL is the the 6SN7 with black glass and round plates. Unfortunately they became very expensive.



Some of my round plates black glasses. Some are Ken Rad and National Union... the 4 on the right 

The left 2 are a NOS pair of TS 12SL7gt that I paid for $99. Pristine condition with boxes. The next 2 are also 12SL7s that I paid for about $10 each. I like these on the GOTL with the increased gain.


----------



## Monsterzero

For the fans of the blues,tonight its AKG K701s and


----------



## UntilThen (Mar 29, 2019)

I love the blues and it's the reason for getting this...


----------



## UntilThen (Mar 29, 2019)

Haha quote of the day..

_'Saying headphone listening is always inferior to speakers is like saying good beer is never worth it because wine is always better'_.

After 4 years of headphones plus associated gear infatuation, I must say I love headphone listening as much as I do speakers now.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah that beater Silvertone 12sn7 sounds pretty nice
> 
> Are the 5998 tubes low ohm like the 6336s? My K701s sound very nice with them in.
> 
> ...



Try looking for a 12SN7 mouse ears I have one I paid $10 for sounds good.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah that beater Silvertone 12sn7 sounds pretty nice
> 
> Are the 5998 tubes low ohm like the 6336s? My K701s sound very nice with them in.
> 
> ...




The 6336 tubes push more current, but any 6AS7G tube will also do the trick....5998 tubes are no slouch for any headphone.
The mouse ear is a nice driver, as mordy says, not as good as the black glass round plate..but still nice







UntilThen said:


> I love the blues and it's the reason for getting this...




These are great blues cans...I can't get enough.
@Sound Trooper suggested I get the  suspension headband, which I did, very comfortable.  i have no problem wearing heavy cans anyway, but the headband is pretty sweet.


----------



## whirlwind

attmci said:


> Tubes are consumables.........




Yes indeed they are.

Maybe i should have said it this way....I don't use them for just listening while I am browsing the internet, or casual listening...but I will use them in the evening,when I turn the lights out, relax in my chair and really get into the music...these are the times that I may use them.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> These are great blues cans...I can't get enough.
> @Sound Trooper suggested I get the  suspension headband, which I did, very comfortable.  i have no problem wearing heavy cans anyway, but the headband is pretty sweet.



Is it this one?https://www.minidisc.com.au/audeze-...Y7s5WidEkh1eInh81QAnTxAA1TrKjpnQaAi-6EALw_wcB

or the the carbon fibre headband?

Hopefully it's the cheaper one.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Is it this one?https://www.minidisc.com.au/audeze-...Y7s5WidEkh1eInh81QAnTxAA1TrKjpnQaAi-6EALw_wcB
> 
> or the the carbon fibre headband?
> 
> Hopefully it's the cheaper one.




Yes, that is the one.  I believe the only difference is one has carbon fiber and ones has spring steel.
That is the one @Sound Trooper  recommended.


----------



## lentoviolento

Glenn how can i summon you?


----------



## UntilThen

lentoviolento said:


> Glenn how can i summon you?



You can’t unless you’re a Judge.


----------



## lentoviolento

i was thinking about a sorcerer.


----------



## Sound Trooper (Mar 29, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Is it this one?https://www.minidisc.com.au/audeze-...Y7s5WidEkh1eInh81QAnTxAA1TrKjpnQaAi-6EALw_wcB
> 
> or the the carbon fibre headband?
> 
> Hopefully it's the cheaper one.





whirlwind said:


> Yes, that is the one.  I believe the only difference is one has carbon fiber and ones has spring steel.
> That is the one @Sound Trooper  recommended.



Yup, just get the normal steel suspension headband will do. I had the CF suspension headband before and was always paranoid of cracking it due to the weight of the cups. However the CF looks much nicer..

Hey UT, how r u liking the LCD-3 vs the LCD-2F?


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey UT, how r u liking the LCD-3 vs the LCD-2F?



The LCD3 is not here yet. I'll get it next week. Those are photos sent to me by the seller.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Some of my round plates black glasses. Some are Ken Rad and National Union... the 4 on the right
> 
> The left 2 are a NOS pair of TS 12SL7gt that I paid for $99. Pristine condition with boxes. The next 2 are also 12SL7s that I paid for about $10 each. I like these on the GOTL with the increased gain.


Hi UT,
It appears to me that the NU and Ken-Rad tubes with black glass were made by their respective manufacturers and not by Tung Sol. The black RF shield looks different and is positioned differently.
Are you saying that they sound the same as the TS?


----------



## UntilThen

No of course not. When did I say that they sound the same?


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> No of course not. When did I say that they sound the same?


Hi UT,
Only asking since I don't have the BGRP NU or K-R and you grouped them together with the TS tubes in the picture.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> For the fans of the blues,tonight its AKG K701s and


Found so much good blues with Roon Radio + Tidal. The software developers have done a good there with their AI matching algorithms. Currently listening to Charlie Musselwhite.


----------



## Monsterzero

Ive been contemplating some of the hi-rez streaming services. However one of the primary types of music I listen to are 70's heavy rock,acid rock,proto metal,metal. In my metal music thread the other members report that none of the streaming services excel at uncovering little known bands,which is unfortunate as I would love to find an easy way to discover little known or up and coming bands from these genres.


----------



## Monsterzero

Is Viking Standard a Tung Sol rebrand?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Viking-Sta...560563?hash=item5d88a654b3:g:MGUAAOSwZTJa9NxB




2359glenn said:


> Try looking for a 12SN7 mouse ears I have one I paid $10 for sounds good.



Only one on eBay atm and same price essentially as the 6v version.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Is Viking Standard a Tung Sol rebrand?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Viking-Sta...560563?hash=item5d88a654b3:g:MGUAAOSwZTJa9NxB
> 
> ...



Looks just like my Tung-Sol labelled 12SN7 Mouse Ears. Buy it.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Looks just like my Tung-Sol labelled 12SN7 Mouse Ears. Buy it.



Got it for 26.00 shipped.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Only asking since I don't have the BGRP NU or K-R and you grouped them together with the TS tubes in the picture.



Ah my apologies. Just getting a photo of the tubes with black glasses together.


----------



## UntilThen

Just looking through my notes and came across Skylab's top 5 6sn7 tubes.

Mullard ECC32 / CV181
Brimar CV1988 / 6sn7gty
Mullard ECC33
Tung Sol black glass round plate 6sn7gt
Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
I agree. They are all great tubes.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Sylvania 6sn7w metal base



Ive read these are quite good sounding but prone to arcing. Any thoughts on their sound and reliabilty in the GOTL?


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Got it for 26.00 shipped.



Great price with shipping. It sounds like a brighter TS BGRP before burn in but after the top end slightly settles down.

Let me know if you're interested in a cheap Russian tube. Going through them right now and verifying they're not noisy.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Great price with shipping. It sounds like a brighter TS BGRP before burn in but after the top end slightly settles down.
> 
> Let me know if you're interested in a cheap Russian tube. Going through them right now and verifying they're not noisy.



I would love to buy everyones tubes,but my funds limit me to what I can do from month to month. I have a huge(for me) tube purchase coming in a cpl weeks,and a line on 7 non-GE 6BX7s for 10.00 each,so for now im broke,lol


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Ive read these are quite good sounding but prone to arcing. Any thoughts on their sound and reliabilty in the GOTL?



Re the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base - very good bass with lots of slam, lush gorgeous mids and extended treble. Treble is sweet and sparkles. I get a lot of details with this compared to the TS 12SN7gt bgrp.

As for reliability, I'm afraid this has been treated similar to the 5998. Quite a lot of chatter about these being prone to arching but it's not so with the tube that I have from Langrex. The Sylania 6sn7w metal base is my quietest driver and the GEC 6as7g are my quietest power tubes and together, they are my quietest combo. If I need to check for noise in the GOTL, I use this combo. It's so quiet, it's amazing. Both were NOS when I bought it and while there's no guarantee that NOS tubes are always quiet, I'd say there's a better chance.

This is a photo of it.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I would love to buy everyones tubes,but my funds limit me to what I can do from month to month. I have a huge(for me) tube purchase coming in a cpl weeks,and a line on 7 non-GE 6BX7s for 10.00 each,so for now im broke,lol



Still cheaper than trying to roll amps lol. I've got 3 vintage Sansui amps in 2 weeks and they each have a sound signature of their own.

AU-717 - Gec 6as7g
AU-7700 - Tung Sol 5998
AU-505 - Bendix 6080wb

No kidding there's some similarity there. There's been talk about tubes sounding different in different amps and while I agree they vary a bit but the tubes' unique sound is still there. There's no mistaking it. A GEC 6as7g will always sound like a GEC 6as7g and a Tung Sol 5998 will always sound like a 5998.

I've heard all these power tubes in:-
Elise
Euforia
Darkvoice 336
La Figaro 339
Woo Audio WA2
Glenn OTL amp

and the general sound signature of each of these power tubes are always there... but and here's a big but... the over all sound coming from each of these amps are very different and there's no doubt which of these tube amps is my favourite.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
I agree with you that each tube has it's own sound signature, but as you say, when it comes to a specific amp, the same tubes sound different - dependending on the amp and the synergy with the other tubes in that specific amp.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> when it comes to a specific amp, the same tubes sound different



This is where I want to stress. They do not sound completely different. I'd still be able to hear the power tubes unique sound irrespective of the driver combination and with different headphones - at least according to my ears.


----------



## mordy

Rebranded Mouse Ear (AKA Ear Muffs(!) Dept.:
12SN7 Tung Sol - in addition to Viking Standard,  also look for Skytron
6SN7   Tung Sol - on addition to Viking, also look for Magnavox, Motorola and Bendix Radio
I am sure there are more names......
Found an auction for a 6SN7GT starting at less than $20 shipped:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTOROLA-6...m4692ba1799:g:T10AAOSwTgJcbw-W&frcectupt=true


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Rebranded Mouse Ear (AKA Ear Muffs(!) Dept.:
> 12SN7 Tung Sol - in addition to Viking Standard,  also look for Skytron
> 6SN7   Tung Sol - on addition to Viking, also look for Magnavox, Motorola and Bendix Radio
> I am sure there are more names......
> ...


Who had recommended this tube?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Rebranded Mouse Ear (AKA Ear Muffs(!) Dept.:
> 12SN7 Tung Sol - in addition to Viking Standard,  also look for Skytron
> 6SN7   Tung Sol - on addition to Viking, also look for Magnavox, Motorola and Bendix Radio
> I am sure there are more names......
> ...



Obviously he don't know what it is.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Found so much good blues with Roon Radio + Tidal. The software developers have done a good there with their AI matching algorithms. Currently listening to Charlie Musselwhite.



Charlie can play that mouth harp with the best of them!


----------



## attmci

Not bad deal. This suppose to last forever.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EARLY-MULL...m=123703586730&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> For the fans of the blues,tonight its AKG K701s and


AKG K701 is one of hard to drive headphones. I doubt a lot of ppl want to invest in a $2000 amp to drive a $200 headphone.


----------



## Monsterzero

I bought it for 100 bucks to use for gaming, but it sounds glorious thru the GOTL for music


----------



## whirlwind

Friday night blues


----------



## UntilThen

My headphone woohoo


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I bought it for 100 bucks to use for gaming, but it sounds glorious thru the GOTL for music



I owned the Q701 at one point. I liked it, even though it was bass light.
Very comfy headphone.  Some people complained about the bumps on the headband hurting their head, but it did not bother me in the least.


----------



## Monsterzero

I typically enjoy +bass when done correctly,but I find the bass of K701 to be very good. Def not a basshead's dream,but those who call it bass light have clearly never heard it thru a GOTL.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> I typically enjoy +bass when done correctly,but I find the bass of K701 to be very good. Def not a basshead's dream,but those who call it bass light have clearly never heard it thru a GOTL.


Sounds like a baby HD-800?


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> Sounds like a baby HD-800?



Thats the one headphone Ive never owned. Ive heard it plenty of times though. I always tell myself im gonna save up and grab one,but somehow I always find something else in this hobby to spend my money on. Imagine that.

Someday.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I typically enjoy +bass when done correctly,but I find the bass of K701 to be very good. Def not a basshead's dream,but those who call it bass light have clearly never heard it thru a GOTL.



Drove mine thru a Mad Ear+HD amp and PS Audio Nuwave dac....


----------



## UntilThen

Nice looking amp Joe even if it’s pastel yellow.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> Drove mine thru a Mad Ear+HD amp and PS Audio Nuwave dac....


Review?


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Nice looking amp Joe even if it’s pastel yellow.




Yeah, a pretty weird color....when I got it my wife said it was ugly....lol


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 30, 2019)

attmci said:


> Review?



The amp took two 12B4A tubes and one 5751/12AX7/ECC83....the socket with one tube was the only tube to change the sound.
I settled on a 5751 Sylvania triple mica black plate....that sounded great with my HD650 headphone, which was the headphone that the good Dr. Peppard designed the headphone for.

I also owned the Grado RS1i at the time, and the amp has excellent synergy with Grado headphones, many people used this combo. You would not think it would work, but it sure did.
I owned the AKG Q701 also and I eventually bought the HD800.

Shortly after I bought the HD800 I contacted Glenn about an OTL, once I realized that the OTL was good with the Grado RS1, I sold the Mad Ear+HD and never looked back.
I used the 6336 tubes or RCA 6AS7G with the Grado's.

The Mad Ear+HD was a great amp, a real work horse in its own right with many different headphones.....here is the Maple Tree website

https://hollowstate.netfirms.com/


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> The amp took two 12B4A tubes and one 5751/12AX7/ECC83....the socket with one tube was the only tube to change the sound.
> I settled on a 5751 Sylvania triple mica black plate....that sounded great with my HD650 headphone, which was the headphone that the good Dr. Peppard designed the headphone for.
> 
> I also owned the Grado RS1i at the time, and the amp has excellent synergy with Grado headphones, many people used this combo. You would not think it would work, but it sure did.
> ...


For HD-650, I bet many may prefer the Crack ($250 DIY kit).


----------



## UsoppNoKami

a pair of WE422A on auction - 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-We...m=113692751795&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109


----------



## heliosphann

Man, take a week off of this thread and I got behind over 200 posts!!! lol



UsoppNoKami said:


> Patiently waiting for my turn to start rolling these tubes... In the meantime, I hoard lol...



Same boat here. I already had to get a bigger box for my tubes... 



attmci said:


> What the hell? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-6SN...819972?hash=item1cbdc3f384:g:bYwAAOSwQqZbzVAc
> 
> Any one have one of this?
> 
> ...



Possibly from the Source AV? They're in Torrance and have ZMF's in their showroom.



UsoppNoKami said:


> Well, I did already put a bid on this pair, let's see how it goes. Won't be chasing auction records lol



I almost bid on those a few days ago. Glad they went to someone on here!


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Man, take a week off of this thread and I got behind over 200 posts!!! lol



It ain't me. I hardly post. 

Now show what you've hoarded ... in pictures !


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> It ain't me. I hardly post.
> 
> Now show what you've hoarded ... in pictures !



I fully blame @Monsterzero. 

I'll post some pics soon. Got a few tubes on the way! lol


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 30, 2019)

Today I received the Visseaux NOS 6N7GT from the seller in Taiwan, listening to it now, Perfect, right out of the box.  It preforms great with the EL32's in the C3G sockets, and the 6H13C as power tubes.

Definitely the exact same internals as my 1943 coke bottle Visseaux 6N7G's in a wonderful NOS non coke bottle envelope from 1953.

Tried them with 6x 6BL7's and no EL32's...no good. Hums like mad and other noises that the 'magic combo' does not suffer from.

Dead  quiet and very happy when used with the pair of EL32's and 6H13C's...wonderful to have this as an NOS tube.  Worth every penny of USD $41.00 and change...

Happy camper here,  (thanks to mordy and rnros for alerting me to the availability of this tube).



.


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Mar 31, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Same boat here. I already had to get a bigger box for my tubes...
> 
> I almost bid on those a few days ago. Glad they went to someone on here!



Another member of Hoarders' Anonymous 

Yep, taking home that pair of GEC 6AS7G. Hopeful they survive shipping and turn out great !


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> For the fans of the blues,tonight its AKG K701s and



I love this album!!

Otis lives in Boulder, Colorado, plays locally, often.  I have a signed CD 

We have seen him 3 times in the past 2 years.   He has a new album out, really good as well. His live shows are excellent


----------



## attmci (Mar 30, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Today I received the Visseaux NOS 6N7GT from the seller in Taiwan, listening to it now, Perfect, right out of the box.  It preforms great with the EL32's in the C3G sockets, and the 6H13C as power tubes.
> 
> Definitely the exact same internals as my 1943 coke bottle Visseaux 6N7G's in a wonderful NOS non coke bottle envelope from 1953.
> 
> ...



Tried them with 6x 6BL7's and no EL32's...no good. Hums like mad??

Strange. Can someone else reproduce this? Mordy or Rnros?


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 30, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> I love this album!!
> 
> Otis lives in Boulder, Colorado, plays locally, often.  I have a signed CD
> 
> We have seen him 3 times in the past 2 years.   He has a new album out, really good as well. His live shows are excellent



Yeah Ive been wanting to see him perform,but it seems like he only plays in Colorado and France...and then w/o warning he shows up in Manhattan in the dead of winter,on a week night...no bueno. Couldnt go.
Maybe someday.

Yep,I have everything he has ever released. One of my favs. His version of "Hey Joe" is epic!


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 30, 2019)

A guy over on AK is selling Mullard 6SN7GTB for 200.00 for 4.
Are these legit? Does the GTB work in the Glenn?

"These were made by Hitachi on equipment purchased from Mullard. Most are labeled ITT, but I have seen about a dozen labels for the same tube."
He offers no photos and only accepts money orders.....


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> A guy over on AK is selling Mullard 6SN7GTB for 200.00 for 4.
> Are these legit? Never heard of a Mullard 6SN7 before. Does the GTB work in the Glenn?
> 
> "These were made by Hitachi on equipment purchased from Mullard. Most are labeled ITT, but I have seen about a dozen labels for the same tube."
> He offers no photos and only accepts money orders.....



From what I read in the 6SN7 thread it seems that Mullard sold their equipment to Hitachi from Japan and they made these Hitachi/ITT tubes. They work well in the amp and I personally finally them fine tubes. Detailed tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> Tried them with 6x 6BL7's and no EL32's...no good. Hums like mad??
> 
> Strange. Can someone else reproduce this? Mordy or Rnros?




Meant to say 6x 6 BX7's....my amp hums with all my 6N7's with BL's or BX's....does not like them.  But oh so perfect via the EL32 triplet and 6H13C powers...makes me laugh at expensive power tubes....not necessary!!


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> A guy over on AK is selling Mullard 6SN7GTB for 200.00 for 4.
> Are these legit? Does the GTB work in the Glenn?



Mullard never manufactured the 6SN7. So these were manufactured elsewhere and marketed under the Mullard brand.

And yes, 6SN7GT, 6SN7GTA and 6SN7GTB all work in the Glenn.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> From what I read in the 6SN7 thread it seems that Mullard sold their equipment to Hitachi from Japan and they made these Hitachi/ITT tubes. They work well in the amp and I personally finally them fine tubes. Detailed tubes.



Well theres only one on eBay right now and dude wants 250.00 for a single tube,so the price is right,but the whole money order thing is a buzz kill.


----------



## leftside

Phantaminum said:


> From what I read in the 6SN7 thread it seems that Mullard sold their equipment to Hitachi from Japan and they made these Hitachi/ITT tubes. They work well in the amp and I personally finally them fine tubes. Detailed tubes.


I have a pair of triple mica ITT PY500 for the 300B amp. Underneath the "ITT" lettering they also have "Mullard".


----------



## rnros

JazzVinyl said:


> Today I received the Visseaux NOS 6N7GT from the seller in Taiwan, listening to it now, Perfect, right out of the box.  It preforms great with the EL32's in the C3G sockets, and the 6H13C as power tubes.
> 
> Definitely the exact same internals as my 1943 coke bottle Visseaux 6N7G's in a wonderful NOS non coke bottle envelope from 1953.
> 
> ...



Glad it sounds good in your setup. Used it solo with 6336B/5998/6BX7. 
May have tried it in a trio with EL8, don't recall at the moment. But no hum issues at all in any case.
To my ear, sounded good like some of the FIVRE ST versions, but maybe better control.
Good value, and beautiful construction on this tube, if you like that kind of thing.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Well theres only one on eBay right now and dude wants 250.00 for a single tube,so the price is right,but the whole money order thing is a buzz kill.



Again, Mullard never manufactured the 6SN7. So whatever manufacturing equipment Mullard may, or may not have sold to Hitachi, it wasn't a 6SN7 assembly line. On the other hand, Raytheon licensed their 6SN7 technology to Hitachi, and I am inclined to think that HItachi 6SN7 were manufactured using Raytheon, or even in-house Hitachi equipment.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Well theres only one on eBay right now and dude wants 250.00 for a single tube,so the price is right,but the whole money order thing is a buzz kill.


https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=31171


----------



## attmci

heliosphann said:


> I fully blame @Monsterzero.
> 
> I'll post some pics soon. Got a few tubes on the way! lol


Me neither. I do my best to keep quite, and only post very little in the past 15 yrs. LOL


----------



## gibosi

And I should say that I have some Hitachi 12SN7GTA and they are good sounding tubes. But no, they do not have the "Mullard" sound.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Well theres only one on eBay right now and dude wants 250.00 for a single tube,so the price is right,but the whole money order thing is a buzz kill.



Those tubes can usually be found for around $30-40. I purchased two in the last few months for around that price and they are definitely not worth $250.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> And I should say that I have some Hitachi 12SN7GTA and they are good sounding tubes. But no, they do not have the "Mullard" sound.


The Mullard "6SN7" is called "ECC33".


----------



## gibosi (Mar 31, 2019)

attmci said:


> The Mullard "6SN7" is called "ECC33".



Not really....  The 6SN7 has an amplification factor of 20 whereas the ECC33 has an AF of 35. Further, the 6SN7 draws 0.6amps while the ECC33 draws 0.4amps. In my opinion, the ECC33 is closer to the ECC40 and the ECC88 then it is the 6SN7.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> And I should say that I have some Hitachi 12SN7GTA and they are good sounding tubes. But no, they do not have the "Mullard" sound.



So theyre not warm,which is cool. Im gonna pass on those anyways,regardless of whether theyre good tubes or not. No pic and no Paypal=i'll let someone else buy them


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Tried them with 6x 6BL7's and no EL32's...no good. Hums like mad??
> 
> Strange. Can someone else reproduce this? Mordy or Rnros?


I tried different tubes together with the EL32 and 6xBX7 and I am convinced that these two tubes are incompatible for reasons that I do not understand.
But the noise and explosive pops are enough to dissuade me from looking any further into it.
Luckily most tube combinations are very compatible in the GOTL and no cause for concern.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm going to keep it simple. When my GOTL comes back, I'll run it like this.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> I tried different tubes together with the EL32 and 6xBX7 and I am convinced that these two tubes are incompatible for reasons that I do not understand.
> But the noise and explosive pops are enough to dissuade me from looking any further into it.
> Luckily most tube combinations are very compatible in the GOTL and no cause for concern.


Dear Mordy, JV said it's no good without the EL32.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I tried different tubes together with the EL32 and 6xBX7 and I am convinced that these two tubes are incompatible for reasons that I do not understand.
> But the noise and explosive pops are enough to dissuade me from looking any further into it.
> Luckily most tube combinations are very compatible in the GOTL and no cause for concern.



Zero misbehavior from EL32 when using 6H13C power tubes.  I can leave EL32's out and just use 6N7 with 6x BX or BL and there is lots of HUM and strange noises.

For me, it seems to be 6x BL BX are incomparable with some drivers (noticed mostly w/6N7 here)...EL32 or no.  I like EL32 scads better than EL8.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Not really....  The 6SN7 has an amplification factor of 20 whereas the ECC33 has an AF of 35. Further, the 6SN7 draws 0.6amps while the ECC33 draws 0.4amps. In my opinion, the ECC33 is closer to the ECC40 and the ECC88 then it is the 6SN7.


Don't have any ECC40 or ECC88. Both of these are miniature tubes comparing to a 6SN7. I believe the ECC40 was replaced by ECC82 within several years and rare. ECC82/12au7 are still being used in many amps.

I think ECC33 is a direct drop-in for 6SN7GT. The lower heat current is always welcomed, and the small difference in AF for most amps is neither a problem. I guess that's why it cost over $250 a piece now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> Dear Mordy, JV said it's no good without the EL32.



I say BX/BL no good with 6N7.  Use 6H13C with or without EL32 (better with) when using 6N7 as driver and be happy.  You will throw all your other tubes in the trash.  

This is it


----------



## attmci (Mar 31, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Zero misbehavior from EL32 when using 6H13C power tubes.  I can leave EL32's out and just use 6N7 with 6x BX or BL and there is lots of HUM and strange noises.
> 
> For me, it seems to be 6x BL BX are incomparable with some drivers (noticed mostly w/6N7 here)...EL32 or no.  I like EL32 scads better than EL8.



Thanks JV.

I had tried 4x 6bx/6bl tubes in another amp. And found it's sometimes difficult to find a matched pair of these tubes. For example, tube 1 like to pair with tube 3, but hate tube 4, and 2;  tube 4 love tube 2, but hate to pair with tube 1 and 3. LOL

So I always store these tubes in pairs.

Same brand/identical NIB tubes don't have the problem.

Glenn can confirm that he is paralleling three triodes in his design. To me, the paralleled tubes need to love each other.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I'm going to keep it simple. When my GOTL comes back, I'll run it like this.



I have bookmarked this message.
Can't wait to see if "roll-o addict-o" keeps his pledge  

.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Don't have any ECC40 or ECC88. Both of these are miniature tubes comparing to a 6SN7. I believe the ECC40 was replaced by ECC82 within several years and rare. ECC82/12au7 are still being used in many amps.
> 
> I think ECC33 is a direct drop-in for 6SN7GT. The lower heat current is always welcomed, and the small difference in AF for most amps is neither a problem. I guess that's why it cost over $250 a piece now.



Adapters are cheap. So if the ECC33 is a direct drop-in for the 6SN7GT, then the ECC40 and ECC88 are as well. Happy rolling.


----------



## attmci (Mar 31, 2019)

​


gibosi said:


> Adapters are cheap. So if the ECC33 is a direct drop-in for the 6SN7GT, then the ECC40 and ECC88 are as well. Happy rolling.


@Tom-s has a collection of ECC40. More than a dozen I believe. I will let him buy all of those. LOL

And for vacuum tubes, you need to go big, or go home.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Zero misbehavior from EL32 when using 6H13C power tubes.  I can leave EL32's out and just use 6N7 with 6x BX or BL and there is lots of HUM and strange noises.
> 
> For me, it seems to be 6x BL BX are incomparable with some drivers (noticed mostly w/6N7 here)...EL32 or no.  I like EL32 scads better than EL8.



The problem with the 6BL7 and 6BX7 is the higher gain. They are going to amplify any noise from the driver more then a 6AS7 type.
I found that most 6N7 tubes are noisy. If you want to use a quiet 6N7 type tube try the FDD20.  UT lent me his FDD20 and it doesn't have the noise of the 6N7 and sounds great.
Only problem is you have to use a adapter with it.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Zero misbehavior from EL32 when using 6H13C power tubes.  I can leave EL32's out and just use 6N7 with 6x BX or BL and there is lots of HUM and strange noises.
> 
> For me, it seems to be 6x BL BX are incomparable with some drivers (noticed mostly w/6N7 here)...EL32 or no.  I like EL32 scads better than EL8.




You can run six  6BL7/6BX7 with 6SN7 tubes and not have noise....correct ?


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> I have bookmarked this message.
> Can't wait to see if "roll-o addict-o" keeps his pledge
> 
> .



Sheesh I've just came out of AA. I'm clean now. I've given up tube rolling. Ok maybe just roll some of my favourite drivers.


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> The problem with the 6BL7 and 6BX7 is the higher gain. They are going to amplify any noise from the driver more then a 6AS7 type.
> I found that most 6N7 tubes are noisy. If you want to use a quiet 6N7 type tube try the FDD20.  UT lent me his FDD20 and it doesn't have the noise of the 6N7 and sounds great.
> Only problem is you have to use a adapter with it.



FDD20 is one of my top 5 tubes. Beautiful tone/timbre and great bass.

Found one for very cheap:
https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F292929349255


----------



## rnros

JazzVinyl said:


> Today I received the Visseaux NOS 6N7GT from the seller in Taiwan, listening to it now, Perfect, right out of the box.  It preforms great with the EL32's in the C3G sockets, and the 6H13C as power tubes.
> 
> Definitely the exact same internals as my 1943 coke bottle Visseaux 6N7G's in a wonderful NOS non coke bottle envelope from 1953.
> 
> ...





rnros said:


> Glad it sounds good in your setup. Used it solo with 6336B/5998/6BX7.
> May have tried it in a trio with EL8, don't recall at the moment. But no hum issues at all in any case.
> To my ear, sounded good like some of the FIVRE ST versions, but maybe better control.
> Good value, and beautiful construction on this tube, if you like that kind of thing.



Hi JV,
Those comments I made on the VSX 6N7GT were referring to my experience with the AEON.
So, I tried my HD650, and yes, a serious HUM with the 6BX7! IIRC, you are using an HD580? 
I never use the HD650 with the GOTL because I always had a noise issue. 
Thought it was just my unit, the 650 was a replacement, maybe 4 or 5 years ago.
But my 600 isn't much better, and it's well over 15 years, so that killed my first theory that it was just a bad batch of 650s.
Have the 580 also, but never tried it with GOTL. (Also an older purchase, 2004 with the original Gilmore Lite.)

Crazy thing, because I know people are using and enjoying those HPs with the GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

And to thin the herd, I'm going to sell this at much lower than market rate. So let me know if you're interested .... so that I have one tube less to roll.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Sheesh I've just came out of AA. I'm clean now. I've given up tube rolling. Ok maybe just roll some of my favourite drivers.




UT...you have no trouble finding quiet 6/12/25 volt SN7 drivers while using six  6BL7/6BX7 tubes correct....this is what I want to be doing.......my SN7 drivers are all pretty much quiet with all my power tubes that are 6AS7G and 6080.

I am just hoping I can still use most of these while still using 6BX/6BL7....I understand that more sensitive headphones are more prone to noise, but with all of the 6SN7 drivers that I have, I am hoping all will be good


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> If you want to use a quiet 6N7 type tube try the FDD20. UT lent me his FDD20 and it doesn't have the noise of the 6N7 and sounds great.
> Only problem is you have to use a adapter with it.



Ha thanks for the publicity. Now I will sell all but one of these and retire a millionaire. Btw the one I send to you is the best singer. It's born in 1942 !


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> UT...you have no trouble finding quiet 6/12/25 volt SN7 drivers while using six 6BL7/6BX7 tubes correct....this is what I want to be doing.......



Absolutely Joe. I have about 10 'choice' drivers that I can use with sextet 6bx7gt with zip noise.

First up this classy driver. Under rated, under reviewed but ... well really good, including the gorgeous adapter from Poland.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Absolutely Joe. I have about 10 'choice' drivers that I can use with sextet 6bx7gt with zip noise.
> 
> First up this classy driver. Under rated, under reviewed but ... well really good, including the gorgeous adapter from Poland.




Thanks....this is the route I am wanting to go as I have collected quite a few sets of 6BX7/6BL7 tubes to try.

I will use the 6BL7/6BX7 tubes with standard drivers or 6AS7G or 6080 tubes with standard drivers...I won't be playing with very many adapters other than the 6F8G  and the adapter for
ECC31.

Just for fun I will experiment with four 6AS7G 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G or four 6080 Bendix with my Ori.

Personally with good power tubes I find that even mediocre 6/12/25 SN7 drivers do the trick for my liking...I will be using Glenn's KISS theory, LOL.


----------



## UntilThen

I very much believe that noise from sextet 6bx7gt or 6bl7 are because of some of the tubes aren't very good or noisy. The 2 sets of 6bx7 and 6bl7 are very quiet. Super quiet. Even the 2 sets of 6bl7 are quiet.

This is another of my very quiet combo and it's great sounding with a brand new Mullard ECC31 from Langrex. I like this pic. It's dark and mystical.


----------



## 2359glenn (Mar 31, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Ha thanks for the publicity. Now I will sell all but one of these and retire a millionaire. Btw the one I send to you is the best singer. It's born in 1942 !



I have to say these are good sounding tubes. I never thought of using a 6N7 or 6A6 type for a driver all I tried were noisy.
These are meant for output tubes so is the FDD20 but it is quieter then the others.
The 6A6 is the older version of the 6N7 sounds very good but all I have are noisy. If you can find a quiet one a great sounding tube but also needs a 7pin to octal adapter


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Just for fun I will experiment with four 6AS7G 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G or four 6080 Bendix with my Ori.



All those power tubes are good but also get a pair of Cetron 6336b with Brimar 13D1. Gorgeous tone with the planar headphone. I'll be using it in the colder months. 

and you're right. Where possible avoid adapters. GOTL has been customised such that there would be lots of combo you can use without adapters and those combos are top class.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The 6A6 is the older version of the 6N7 sounds very good but all I have are noisy.



Correct the key is to find quiet tubes. I have this pair of Fivre 6N7G brown base. Quite rare. One of the tube is a bit noisy but the other is good and quiet. I should use this more often because the tone is really good. Like a cross between a Mullard ECC31 and a Visseaux 6N7G.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> All those power tubes are good but also get a pair of Cetron 6336b with Brimar 13D1. Gorgeous tone with the planar headphone. I'll be using it in the colder months.
> 
> and you're right. Where possible avoid adapters. GOTL has been customised such that there would be lots of combo you can use without adapters and those combos are top class.




I actually sold my 6336B tubes once I received the GEL3N amp, as I liked the Ori much better with it. I usually use the GEL3N or GS-X mk2 with the Ori as it just sounds best to my ears.

I never used the 6336B tubes with any of my high impedance cans very much as I found the good 6AS7G tubes to have a better tone to my ears....YMMV


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I actually sold my 6336B tubes once I received the GEL3N amp, as I liked the Ori much better with it. I usually use the GEL3N or GS-X mk2 with the Ori as it just sounds best to my ears.
> 
> I never used the 6336B tubes with any of my high impedance cans very much as I found the good 6AS7G tubes to have a better tone to my ears....YMMV



Well you have your dac, amps and headphones sorted out just as I have. Good combination of gear there to handle all situations. Tubes do affect change in tone but it should not be the deciding factor in your overall head-fi setup. Just pick your favourite combo and start listening to music.

Btw the LCD3 is arriving tomorrow or latest day after tomorrow.


----------



## whirlwind

I was quite surprised at how easy the LCD 3 is to drive compared to the Ori


----------



## UntilThen

Maybe just maybe I may get a GEL3N because it's a nice looking amp and the tubes are cheap. With 2A3 tubes, I'll be a pauper soon.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I was quite surprised at how easy the LCD 3 is to drive compared to the Ori



2 planars ! You must like bass and that's not just ordinary bass.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Maybe just maybe I may get a GEL3N because it's a nice looking amp and the tubes are cheap. With 2A3 tubes, I'll be a pauper soon.



Yeah, those 2A3 tubes can get quite expensive....bet they sound really good though.  

Tubes in general just seem to be going for insane prices these days....I just saw this completed auction on e-bay awhile ago....these RCA 1633 tubes sold for over $100 for the pair.
Glenn guided me in a direction a few years ago that I bought these tubes for $4 each!!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Co...424898?hash=item2f162bb082:g:ly4AAOSwAaJaF3nC

These are good tubes, but I mean come on.

If buying an OTL over the EL3N amp these days, you better already have many tubes, or just use the basic cheap tubes and still get great sound and be happy, as Glenn has designed the amp where this can be the case.....*BUT *if you go down the rabbit hole...expect to spend thousands and not hundreds on tubes if you want to have the best tubes.


----------



## mordy

Hi Glenn,
I have a FDD20 tube that was adapted to a FA amp. The side contact base was changed to octal and it has two leads for 12V external power. It is wired so that you do not need an additional  ECC31 to octal adapter.
Could I use this tube in the GOTL with an external power supply ?
I am trying to avoid buying another tube.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> .*BUT *if you go down the rabbit hole...expect to spend thousands and not hundreds on tubes if you want to have the best tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> I have a FDD20 tube that was adapted to a FA amp. The side contact base was changed to octal and it has two leads for 12V external power. It is wired so that you do not need an additional  ECC31 to octal adapter.
> Could I use this tube in the GOTL with an external power supply ?
> I am trying to avoid buying another tube.




Buy one of UT's extras,


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> ​
> @Tom-s has a collection of ECC40. More than a dozen I believe. I will let him buy all of those. LOL
> 
> And for vacuum tubes, you need to go big, or go home.



Yes, I know about big and I also know about little. lol 

In my opinion, the early ECC40 manufactured in Eindhoven, Sittard and Hamburg are some of the best tubes out there that no one has ever heard.

Philips 1817 and ECC40


----------



## Phantaminum

leftside said:


>




Stayed for the song, enjoyed the out of this world visuals.


----------



## 2359glenn

Even though I make the ultimate tube rolling amp. I do not tube roll my self.
the only tubes I swap is driver i switch the L63 to EL3N I have EL3N to 6J5 adapter.
With the Auteur I prefer the EL3N as a driver.
My amp don't promote lots of tube rolling it is mostly the same circuit with a crazy power supply and made the chassis.
This saves me money


----------



## leftside

Phantaminum said:


> Stayed for the song, enjoyed the out of this world visuals.


They are a local Vancouver band and are part of the west coast post-punk revival scene. I've seen them a few times. They borrow elements from UK late 70's/80's bands like Joy Division.


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 1, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Even though I make the ultimate tube rolling amp. I do not tube roll my self.
> the only tubes I swap is driver i switch the L63 to EL3N I have EL3N to 6J5 adapter.
> With the Auteur I prefer the EL3N as a driver.
> My amp don't promote lots of tube rolling it is mostly the same circuit with a crazy power supply and made the chassis.
> This saves me money



Thanks for posting this Glenn.
I loving seeing pics of all of your different amps.

As far as the EL3N tube...I am on board as it being the best sounding tubes for any amount of money.
For what it is worth , it takes  a lot of money spent in tubes to get close to the EL3N tube amp sound...I am not sure if most of this is attributed to the tube or the design of the EL3N amp and the Lundahal transformers.

These tubes did sound great in the GOTL with the adapters to.

Is that the 58UC rectifier ?

Thanks again for the picture


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Even though I make the ultimate tube rolling amp. I do not tube roll my self.
> the only tubes I swap is driver i switch the L63 to EL3N I have EL3N to 6J5 adapter.
> With the Auteur I prefer the EL3N as a driver.
> My amp don't promote lots of tube rolling it is mostly the same circuit with a crazy power supply and made the chassis.
> This saves me money


Is that picture showing a rectifier on the left? And then 2 GEC 6AS7G power tubes, and 2 GEC L63 driver tubes? So, your amp takes the L63 directly and you didn't bother with 6SN7?


----------



## Phantaminum

leftside said:


> They are a local Vancouver band and are part of the west coast post-punk revival scene. I've seen them a few times. They borrow elements from UK late 70's/80's bands like Joy Division.



Very cool. I was thinking this was from the 70s when I saw the visuals at the start of the track but then I saw the kid running down the street and figured it must be a throw back to that era. Thanks for the link.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Is that picture showing a rectifier on the left? And then 2 GEC 6AS7G power tubes, and 2 GEC L63 driver tubes? So, your amp takes the L63 directly and you didn't bother with 6SN7?



Looks to be correct, but he can use EL3N tubes with an adapter


----------



## attmci (Mar 31, 2019)

Duplicate.


----------



## Monsterzero

I dont have as much experience as others here with tube rolling but what ive learned thus far is if I have a noisy combo on my ZMF headphones (250 ohms) or Sennheiser HD250(fantastic headphone! 300 ohms) the noise drops considerably when I use 600 ohm headphones.

Perhaps im oversimplifying things but:

6bX7-600 ohm headphones
6as7/6080/6336-250/300 headphones
6336-less than 250 ohms


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Is that picture showing a rectifier on the left? And then 2 GEC 6AS7G power tubes, and 2 GEC L63 driver tubes? So, your amp takes the L63 directly and you didn't bother with 6SN7?



Yes a Russian 5U8C rectifier the only rectifier tube that can charge the massive filter capacitors.
Yes it takes the L63 or 6J5 directly I do have 6J5 to EL3N adapters and use the EL3N as a driver for more mellow sound.
I only roll between the L63 and EL3N tubes. These are all the tubes I need


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> I dont have as much experience as others here with tube rolling but what ive learned thus far is if I have a noisy combo on my ZMF headphones (250 ohms) or Sennheiser HD250(fantastic headphone! 300 ohms) the noise drops considerably when I use 600 ohm headphones.
> 
> Perhaps im oversimplifying things but:
> 
> ...



The 6BX7s are a great match with 300 Ohm headphones and above. Favorite pairings were with the Auteurs and HD650s but it takes a little more work to find a sextet of them that are quiet. They work great with 6SN7/12SN7 as their AF isn’t as high as some of the other tubes. The rest is definitely spot on.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Buy one of UT's extras,



I second that !


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes a Russian 5U8C rectifier the only rectifier tube that can charge the massive filter capacitors.
> Yes it takes the L63 or 6J5 directly I do have 6J5 to EL3N adapters and use the *EL3N as a driver for more mellow sound*.
> I only roll between the L63 and EL3N tubes. These are all the tubes I need



Well described tone for the EL3N. It's great for vocals. 

I can go from 2 extremes and love both - the detailed and revealing sound of the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base to the mellow and lush tone of the EL3N. In the past one year with the GOTL, I thought I fall in the camp of the details oriented lover but now with the warm and lush tone of the Sansui(s) of the 70s, I realised I love this tone too.... besides the luxurious mids, the bass has a very nice texture with more bloom, that's what I hear in the EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> The 6BX7s are a great match with 300 Ohm headphones and above. Favorite pairings were with the Auteurs and HD650s but it takes a little more work to find a sextet of them that are quiet. They work great with 6SN7/12SN7 as their AF isn’t as high as some of the other tubes. The rest is definitely spot on.



You're so right Phantam. Sextet 6bx7 and 6bl7 works perfect with my 300 ohms HD800, and Eikon & Atticus when I had them. I had the Beyer T1 600 ohms for a short while with the GOTL before I sold them... only because my T1 is a bit aged and by then I had fallen in love with wood. 

Love this picture. Can't believe that all 3 woodies would be gone soon but it will be replaced by a LCD-3. Would love to try a Verite too but that's getting expensive at 2.5 grand.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Well described tone for the EL3N. It's great for vocals.
> 
> I can go from 2 extremes and love both - the detailed and revealing sound of the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base to the mellow and lush tone of the EL3N. In the past one year with the GOTL, I thought I fall in the camp of the details oriented lover but now with the warm and lush tone of the Sansui(s) of the 70s, I realised I love this tone too.... besides the luxurious mids, the bass has a very nice texture with more bloom, that's what I hear in the EL3N.



The EL3N sounds best in a amp made for it.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> The EL3N sounds best in a amp made for it.



Of course this is true. But I wonder... How close does a C3g socket come to providing the optimal bias for an EL3N?


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Of course this is true. But I wonder... How close does a C3g socket come to providing the optimal bias for an EL3N?



Both true 

So Glenn did you try out these adapters that I send to you and if so what do ya think?


----------



## JazzVinyl

rnros said:


> Glad it sounds good in your setup. Used it solo with 6336B/5998/6BX7.
> May have tried it in a trio with EL8, don't recall at the moment. But no hum issues at all in any case.
> To my ear, sounded good like some of the FIVRE ST versions, but maybe better control.
> Good value, and beautiful construction on this tube, if you like that kind of thing.



Interesting that your amp behaves when using 6N7 with 6BX7's...none of my 6N7's are usable when I have the 6 pack in.  All are fine when using 2x mu power tubes...triplet or solo.  

I take it you do not have EL32's rnros? They are cheap 'n good!

.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I second that !


Hi Whirlwind,
My problem is that I can't get used to the current tube prices - paid around $9 for my FDD20.
I have the only FDD20 in North America with a custom made octal base and running on an external power supply at 12.7V thanks to h1. Was a little nervous of using it in the GOTL, but took the challenge.
Dusted off my external power supply, voltage converter and hardwired FDD20. Took a deep breath and turned it on; everything works - a blast from the past (February 10, 1943):




I could run this tube at 13V (I think that it was made for automotive use) but I am using a more conservative 12.7V:



Inelegant, but workable, and suiting my frugal nature.
Compared to my other favorite troikas this one sounds a little darker at first impression, but very good; need more time. It is also very quiet.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Hi Whirlwind,
> My problem is that I can't get used to the current tube prices - paid around $9 for my FDD20.
> I have the only FDD20 in North America with a custom made octal base and running on an external power supply at 12.7V thanks to h1. Was a little nervous of using it in the GOTL, but took the challenge.
> Dusted off my external power supply, voltage converter and hardwired FDD20. Took a deep breath and turned it on; everything works - a blast from the past (February 10, 1943):
> ...



I hear you on tube prices, pretty easy to drop a couple thousand dollars if someone is chasing the best power tubes and drivers these days...


----------



## rnros

JazzVinyl said:


> ...
> I take it you do not have EL32's rnros? They are cheap 'n good!
> 
> .



Hi JV, I did have a quick listen with the EL32 a while ago, at the time I didn't like them as much as the other EL tubes.
I'll get back to them at some point and give them some proper time.


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Hi Whirlwind,
> My problem is that I can't get used to the current tube prices - paid around $9 for my FDD20.
> I have the only FDD20 in North America with a custom made octal base and running on an external power supply at 12.7V thanks to h1. Was a little nervous of using it in the GOTL, but took the challenge.
> Dusted off my external power supply, voltage converter and hardwired FDD20. Took a deep breath and turned it on; everything works - a blast from the past (February 10, 1943):
> ...


Spent more time with the FDD20 - it is very quiet and  behaves very well in the 6SN7 slot, but together with EL8 and the RCA 6080 the bass was a little soft.
The mid range is great but I needed more punch in the bass.
This morning I switched the RCA 6080 for a pair of Chatham 6080 which are harder hitting in the bass.
So far this combination seems promising with a good balance across the FR.
I know that some people can listen to a tube for 2 minutes and they already have it pegged and know how it sounds like.
I can't - takes me much longer to figure things out.....


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Spent more time with the FDD20 - it is very quiet and  behaves very well in the 6SN7 slot, but together with EL8 and the RCA 6080 the bass was a little soft.
> The mid range is great but I needed more punch in the bass.
> This morning I switched the RCA 6080 for a pair of Chatham 6080 which are harder hitting in the bass.
> So far this combination seems promising with a good balance across the FR.
> ...


Here is something else strange - troika strange.
Since the FDD20 is powered independently of the GOTL I have to turn it on and off separately. Shutting of the system this morning I first shut off the FDD with the pairs of EL8 and Chatham 6080 staying on. Suddenly the volume increased - the system played louder.
Why?


----------



## mordy

*EU to ban vacuum tubes 2019*
Approximate reading time: 1 Minute



Vacuum tubes and valves to be banned across the EU from 2019  ·  Source: gearnews.de

*First came the war on filament lightbulbs. Now we’ve heard of a planned EU directive banning valves and vacuum tubes across the EU from 2019. The as-yet unannounced piece of legislation cites “an unsafe, inefficient technology invented in the 1920s” and is, we understand, to come into force in 2019.*

The announcement was allegedly posted on a website run by the European Commission that outlines technical standards applying to all EU member states. The piece was, it seems, pulled a few hours later, yet our staff received a copy from an anonymous email address from someone within the EU legislature.

Spearheading the new law, apparently, is Switzerland’s EU commissioner on technical affairs, Helmut Ampless. He is quoted as follows:

This ancient so-called technology is inherently unsafe and should be banned as soon as possible. It’s easy to electrocute yourself on these little things, and imagine if a child broke one and was sucked into its vacuum. It’s terrifying.

*‘Illegal’ guitar amps?*
If promulgated, this order will obviously have a huge impact on all manufacturers of tube-based guitar amps and other studio equipment. It’s currently unclear if owners of tube amps will have to destroy their precious equipment before the deadline. Could owners of ‘illegal’ amps face fines for merely owning one of these “unsafe” pieces of equipment? Transistor technology is unaffected by the ban, however. Could this pave the way for a new renaissance in solid-state amp technology? Presumably everyone will be compiling IRs of all their valve amps before it comes into effect in an attempt to circumvent it.

We’ll keep you posted…

*UPDATE: *By now you will no doubt all have guessed that this was our April Fools Day article. How many of you were really taken in by this? Let us know in the comments.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Switzerland’s EU commissioner on technical affairs, *Helmut Ampless*.


 LOL


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Spent more time with the FDD20 - it is very quiet and  behaves very well in the 6SN7 slot, but together with EL8 and the RCA 6080 the bass was a little soft.
> The mid range is great but I needed more punch in the bass.
> This morning I switched the RCA 6080 for a pair of Chatham 6080 which are harder hitting in the bass.
> So far this combination seems promising with a good balance across the FR.
> ...



OK - I think I got it by now......
The FDD20 has blue glass, and that characterizes the sound to me in the GOTL - the timbre is a little off, like the harsher blue light of the early LEDs - an unnatural somewhat glaring hue. 
Tried with three different power tubes (RCA 6080, Chatham 6080WA and Svetlana 6H13C) but that slightly unnatural and cold tinge in the sound never disappeared.
Don't take me wrong; the FDD20 is a very good sounding tube, but it did not work for me.
Put in my favorite 6N7GT/G and everything feels right again.....


----------



## Monsterzero

Do any of the Glenn owners have the Denafrips Terminator?
Long shot,but figured I'd ask.


----------



## UntilThen

Yates did but he has sold off his GOTL. I wanted to get a Denafrips Ares initially but I bought a Yggdrasil instead after auditioning it at the shop and I've never lusted after another dac since. Lots of changes in my gear in the last 2 years but the Yggdrasil and HD800 have remained.

Today's your April Fool's Day. Yesterday was mine and the LCD3 didn't show up but now I have a message saying it's definitely coming today.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Yates did but he has sold off his GOTL.



Yes. He also sold off his Terminator and bought a tube DAC that he likes more. Unfortunately the maker of said DAC is a total arse. I wont get into details,but there are too many people in this hobby I genuinely like that I'd rather support by buying their products,rather than buying possibly good products made by insulting and rude individuals.

Which brings me back to the Terminator. I have interacted with Alvin several times,and he is friendly and quite helpful. I own his Vinshine R2R Reference DAC. Further the American sales/service rep for the Terminator is a well known audioholic. Talked to him on the phone for over an hour today about everything under the sun,including the Terminator.

Yates claimed the Terminator turned his normal speakers into virtual sub woofers,hence the swap. John Darko and other reviews do not mention over bearing bass,so I thought I'd ask here as I respect the knowledge and experience everyone in this thread has.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> a well known audioholic



Dammm my eye sight is undergoing repair and I read that as a well known alcoholic.

Any dac that can turn speakers into subwoofers have a special gift. This will be a choking point for Terminator fans for sure. I agree Alvin is a great guy to talk to.


----------



## UntilThen

Evaluating gear must always take associating gear into consideration. Also I don't read too much into reviews now because those reviews have different set ups from mine.

Ideally I need to spend sometime with it at home for a few months. The Terminator should be good but your system chain must find the balance of warm and brightness.


----------



## UntilThen

John Darko hails from Australia but now resides in Europe. I did like his reviews.


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> John Darko hails from Australia but now resides in Europe. I did like his reviews.



Yea, Darko is a great reviewer. I kinda want a Termniator myself, but is ti worth more than double the price of a Yggdrasil??? Someone send me one to demo! lol


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Yea, Darko is a great reviewer. I kinda want a Termniator myself, but is ti worth more than double the price of a Yggdrasil??? Someone send me one to demo! lol



When the salesman told me the price of Yggdrasil is AUD $3800, I had to excuse myself to next door the Cafe store to down 2 cups of coffee and 2 muffins. Then I walk back to the audio store and speak in the tone of Clint Eastwood... 'Go on make my day, now pack that Yggy with the hd800 pronto !'

If the Terminator is double the price of Yggy, I doubt I can handle 4 cups of coffee and 4 muffins.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> but is ti worth more than double the price of a Yggdrasil???



If you listen to Darko's review he seems to think so....and then some.



heliosphann said:


> Someone send me one to demo! lol



None available to demo,unless you want to pay full price,and then lose 10% restocking fee if you return it.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> When the salesman told me the price of Yggdrasil is AUD $3800.


I thought we had it bad here in Canada, but you Aussies got it real bad when it comes to audio prices. At least we have a chance of persuading the US sellers to sell to us, and we don't need to convert the voltage. Just a shame about the exchange rate...


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi Whirlwind,
> My problem is that I can't get used to the current tube prices - paid around $9 for my FDD20.
> I have the only FDD20 in North America with a custom made octal base and running on an external power supply at 12.7V thanks to h1. Was a little nervous of using it in the GOTL, but took the challenge.
> Dusted off my external power supply, voltage converter and hardwired FDD20. Took a deep breath and turned it on; everything works - a blast from the past (February 10, 1943):
> ...



Amazing!  That is the same tax stamp number and date that is on my FDD20's!!!  Someone else here also have the same tax stamp number and date!!!  Feb 10, 1943 was a busy day for Philips in Italy!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> OK - I think I got it by now......
> The FDD20 has blue glass, and that characterizes the sound to me in the GOTL - the timbre is a little off, like the harsher blue light of the early LEDs - an unnatural somewhat glaring hue.
> Tried with three different power tubes (RCA 6080, Chatham 6080WA and Svetlana 6H13C) but that slightly unnatural and cold tinge in the sound never disappeared.
> Don't take me wrong; the FDD20 is a very good sounding tube, but it did not work for me.
> Put in my favorite 6N7GT/G and everything feels right again.....



Interesting!!   I loved FDD20 in the FA amp...did not love it in GOTL using a six pack of 6BL or BX7...wasn't "bad" but not as special as I remembered it in the FA offering,,,

Will try mine tonight, with the EL32's in the C3g sockets and 6H13C as powers...my Visseaux 6N7GT is in there presently...


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Amazing!  That is the same tax stamp number and date that is on my FDD20's!!!  Someone else here also have the same tax stamp number and date!!!  Feb 10, 1943 was a busy day for Philips in Italy!!


It was a Wednesday....


----------



## JazzVinyl (Apr 1, 2019)

Interesting, kids!!

FDD20 is NOT compatible with EL32 / 6H13C!!

The horrid LOUD POPS...removed it immediately and put the Visseaux 6N7GT back in....all is well again. 
​


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Interesting!!   I loved FDD20 in the FA amp...did not love it in GOTL using a six pack of 6BL or BX7...wasn't "bad" but not as special as I remembered it in the FA offering,,,
> 
> Will try mine tonight, with the EL32's in the C3g sockets and 6H13C as powers...my Visseaux 6N7GT is in there presently...



In the past I used the FDD20 together with a Mullard ECC31. In the GOTL you have to use them singly. Whereas the ECC31 sounded good with a pair of power tubes, it did not sound as good as a third driver. 
I wish there was a way to predict how tube combinations are going to sound but I am afraid that it is just trial and error.....
 ATM, IMHO the best results from the GOTL can be obtained with triple drivers. But this is work in progress and subject to change.


----------



## mordy (Apr 1, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Interesting, kids!!
> 
> FDD20 is NOT compatible with EL32 / 6H13C!!
> 
> ...


I bet the EL32 is the culprit - see what happens with C3g tubes...
I used the FDD20 with the EL8 and 6H13 tubes without problems, but then the power to the FDD was not from the GOTL but external.
And please use sacrificial headphones!


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> ATM, IMHO the best results from the GOTL can be obtained with triple drivers. But this is work in progress and subject to change.



This might be true with the internal HEXFRED rectifier. But I would submit that the GOTL with tube rectification is a very different animal....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I bet the EL32 is the culprit - see what happens with C3g tubes...
> I used the FDD20 with the EL8 and 6H13 tubes without problems, but then the power to the FDD was not from the GOTL but external.
> And please use sacrificial headphones!



Yes, probably so.  So interesting that 6n7g el32 and 6h13c sound so great together!! But some drivers used w/el32's make them freak out. Before tonight, i was convinced 6H13C was the secret to happy EL32's....


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> This might be true with the internal HEXFRED rectifier. But I would submit that the GOTL with tube rectification is a very different animal....



What happens with tube rectification, and triplet drivers, G?    Sound degrades?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> ATM, IMHO the best results from the GOTL can be obtained with triple drivers.



Correct this is in your humble opinion. Not everyone shares the same view. Certainly not me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Oh wait!   I was using the wrong adapter with the FDD20!  Since the FDD20 is a derivative of 6N7 in a different base, I thought it strange that it did work as well as 6N7's...

Had a rough day at work, time for bed, but will retry FDD20/EL32/6H13C tomorrow night...

Night, all...


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Correct this is in your humble opinion. Not everyone shares the same view. Certainly not me.



I do!!  Triplet is the best


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> What happens with tube rectification, and triplet drivers, G?    Sound degrades?



For any driver/output tube combination, I can roll through something like 50 rectifiers to obtain the "best" sound. Given this arsenal and the huge number of permutations available to me, I find it very hard to believe that triplet drivers with different amplification factors would somehow be better. But again, this is IMHO.


----------



## Monsterzero

Gentlemen,it appears as though Head-Fi has officially Jumped the Shark

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ovc-vacuum-tube-headphones-impressions-thread.903416/


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> For any driver/output tube combination, I can roll through something like 50 rectifiers to obtain the "best" sound. Given this arsenal and the huge number of permutations available to me, I find it very hard to believe that triplet drivers with different amplification factors would somehow be better. But again, this is IMHO.




I did try the triplet drivers, but only with the C3g tubes and I did not try very many SN7 drivers with them, but I concluded that as my original thoughts were, the C3g drivers do not need a companion.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> For any driver/output tube combination, I can roll through something like 50 rectifiers to obtain the "best" sound. Given this arsenal and the huge number of permutations available to me, I find it very hard to believe that triplet drivers with different amplification factors would somehow be better. But again, this is IMHO.



Long live the arsenal and many permutations of rectifier tubes.

But have you actually tried driver triplet?

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I did try the triplet drivers, but only with the C3g tubes and I did not try very many SN7 drivers with them, but I concluded that as my original thoughts were, the C3g drivers do not need a companion.



Agree about C3g.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Use the correct adaptor for FDD20...and:




 

All is well, Hrbie Hancock's "Imagine Project" is very happy 

No time to compare against the Visseaux 6N7GT right now, maybe after the long work day is done.

Cheers...

.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Long live the arsenal and many permutations of rectifier tubes.
> 
> But have you actually tried driver triplet?
> 
> .



No, I haven't tried triplets, and further, I have no desire to follow you guys down that rabbit hole. lol.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> No, I haven't tried triplets, and further, I have no desire to follow you guys down that rabbit hole. lol.



Thanks....I didn't think so, or you would be a convert.

I have no desire to traverse the rectifier rabbit hole LOL.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Long live the arsenal and many permutations of rectifier tubes.
> .


I also like reading all the different variations you guys post. Having a mix of arsenals, rectifiers, triplets... it's all good. Keep 'em coming.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Gentlemen,it appears as though Head-Fi has officially Jumped the Shark
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ovc-vacuum-tube-headphones-impressions-thread.903416/


I saw an ad for these tube headphones a while back, but nobody could tell me how they work. Is there a miniature tube buffer built in? And why use a larger type tube when you could use a sub miniature tube?


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
Did you get your GOTL back yet?


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> I also like reading all the different variations you guys post. Having a mix of arsenals, rectifiers, triplets... it's all good. Keep 'em coming.



Right-o - everyone will find delight, via the GOTL 

Hats off to Glenn R


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Did you get your GOTL back yet?



Nope and I'm not rushing Glenn. I know he's busy.

Besides I've lots of gear to use at the moment. The LCD-3 came yesterday and this is the headphone I should have bought from day 1. There's astonishing amount of clarity and details, not the looped off treble that I expected. The mids is just so smooth and lovely. The bass is outstanding. 

Whirlwind and Sound Infinity are correct. They knew I would love it and I'm not even a bass head.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Nope and I'm not rushing Glenn. I know he's busy.
> 
> Besides I've lots of gear to use at the moment. The LCD-3 came yesterday and this is the headphone I should have bought from day 1. There's astonishing amount of clarity and details, not the looped off treble that I expected. The mids is just so smooth and lovely. The bass is outstanding.
> 
> Whirlwind and Sound Infinity are correct. They knew I would love it and I'm not even a bass head.



I’ve been wanting to try the LCD-3 as I heard great things about it but the weight put me off. Are you planning on purchasing the new headband kit for better weight distribution?


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve been wanting to try the LCD-3 as I heard great things about it but the weight put me off. Are you planning on purchasing the new headband kit for better weight distribution?



I will but I will also have to get the matching black leather ear pads. The current vegan brown velour is still new though but anything to make it more comfortable is worth pursuing. I've gotten used to the weight though because I've use the LCD-2f for more than a year.

See the gorgeous condition it came in and I paid less than half the retail price for a well kept, less than a year unit because the owner wanted to upgrade to LCD-4. There's not a single scratch.

 

Certificate of authenticity. 
 

Lovely zebrano wood


----------



## pippen99

I have had 3 Audeze models(2f, X and 4).  The vegan pads are the most comfortable by a huge margin.  Since Audeze no longer has them available as aftermarket option I went to the Dekoni Elite Hybrid pads as an alternative.  Audeze leather pads IMHO are very uncomfortable.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Those Audeze LCD vegan pads have a good rep but are no longer made... I used a pair of ZMF auteur microsuede pads as an alternative


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Nope and I'm not rushing Glenn. I know he's busy.
> 
> Besides I've lots of gear to use at the moment. The LCD-3 came yesterday and this is the headphone I should have bought from day 1. There's astonishing amount of clarity and details, not the looped off treble that I expected. The mids is just so smooth and lovely. The bass is outstanding.
> 
> Whirlwind and Sound Infinity are correct. They knew I would love it and I'm not even a bass head.



Very much looking forward to your comments on the LCD-3 with the GOTL. 

Lots to explore with all the options in your tube collection. 

Congrats. Beautiful headphone in great condition.


----------



## UntilThen

pippen99 said:


> I have had 3 Audeze models(2f, X and 4).  The vegan pads are the most comfortable by a huge margin.  Since Audeze no longer has them available as aftermarket option I went to the Dekoni Elite Hybrid pads as an alternative.  Audeze leather pads IMHO are very uncomfortable.



Wow I was worried that the Dekoni Elite Hybrid pads might change the sound of the LCD-3 for the worst or that it might not look good then I read this review. The photos are stunning. Furthermore the Dekoni pads are available from my local audio store - Addicted To Audio.... and cheaper than the Audeze pads.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/dekoni-audio-elite-earpads-for-audeze-lcd-headphones.23411/


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Very much looking forward to your comments on the LCD-3 with the GOTL.
> 
> Lots to explore with all the options in your tube collection.
> 
> Congrats. Beautiful headphone in great condition.



Thanks Ros! I have no doubt that the LCD-3 will sound great with the GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Those Audeze LCD vegan pads have a good rep but are no longer made... I used a pair of ZMF auteur microsuede pads as an alternative



Ha another option. 

I'm heading to Malaysia for a holiday in June. I should look you up to have a listen on the Verite.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Whirlwind and Sound Infinity are correct. They knew I would love it and I'm not even a bass head.
> ]


cough, cough…. 



Phantaminum said:


> I’ve been wanting to try the LCD-3 as I heard great things about it but the weight put me off. Are you planning on purchasing the new headband kit for better weight distribution?


The weight was never a problem for me as I listen in an inclined chair. I wouldn't want to be sitting at a desk with them though. My wife never liked the weight or fit.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I will but I will also have to get the matching black leather ear pads. The current vegan brown velour is still new though but anything to make it more comfortable is worth pursuing. I've gotten used to the weight though because I've use the LCD-2f for more than a year.
> 
> See the gorgeous condition it came in and I paid less than half the retail price for a well kept, less than a year unit because the owner wanted to upgrade to LCD-4. There's not a single scratch.
> 
> ...




They look great.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Apr 2, 2019)

Still my favorite combo in the GOTL:






If I had it to do over, I would ask for this combo as "all native to their respective sockets",  bias optimized and in a smaller footprint case.   

FDD20 was good, y'all,...but not as refined as the Visseaux 6N7GT, the EL32's add, sonically.  The sum is greater than the individual parts.

Cheers, all...!!!


----------



## gibosi

I know that very few here are interested in 4-volt rectifiers...

But for the benefit of those who are, I received an Italian SICTE AZ12 here today. It was manufactured in the mid-1950s. This my first SICTE, so I was very curious to discover how it sounded. And I was pleasantly surprised to find that it sounds very similar to Fivre rectifiers and double triodes, with a rather forward mid-range. It is a very nice complement to darker drivers, like the Lorenz C3g, for example.


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 3, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Still my favorite combo in the GOTL:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Its great when you find your preferred sound and it does not cost an arm and a leg to get the tubes.

I sit here this morning listening to Snowy White's Blues Agency - the Masters

For the heck of it, I rolled in some Thomson 6080 powers and an old 1950 GE 12SN7
Hell, for all I know nobody have even ever tried this combo...combined with my 42EC4 rectifier tubes....I probably have less than $30 worth of tubes in the amp.
Listening with the Atticus and the sound is clean, very clean...nice mids...good tight bass, not a lot of it...but nothing is over done in this combo...vocals are nice.
Sort of a laid back sound for about as cheap as you can get.
Back round as black as midnight.
Nothing worse than spending a lot of money for tubes only to find them to be noisy .

Hardly ever do you see anybody listening to GE driver tubes, mainly because they are not as good as most...but IMO they are still good in this amp....I love the sound of SN7 tubes and have really never met one that I could not listen to.

The Atticus & this amp is like PB&J
It can sound better with better tubes...but not 40% better as many people would want you to believe.
The Atticus & Glenn's OTL will sing with the cheapest of tubes


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> The Atticus & this amp is like PB&J
> It can sound better with better tubes...but not 40% better as many people would want you to believe.
> The Atticus & Glenn's OTL will sing with the cheapest of tubes



Completely agree.  No reason to go for 'exotic tubes' in the GOTL.

Cheers


----------



## lukeap69

IMO, it is not required to use 'exotic tubes' in the GOTL, but there is always a reason to go for one.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> I will but I will also have to get the matching black leather ear pads. The current vegan brown velour is still new though but anything to make it more comfortable is worth pursuing. I've gotten used to the weight though because I've use the LCD-2f for more than a year.
> 
> See the gorgeous condition it came in and I paid less than half the retail price for a well kept, less than a year unit because the owner wanted to upgrade to LCD-4. There's not a single scratch.
> 
> ...



What a beauty!


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Its great when you find your preferred sound and it does not cost an arm and a leg to get the tubes.
> 
> I sit here this morning listening to Snowy White's Blues Agency - the Masters
> 
> ...


Hi Whirlwind,
There was a time when you could pick up tubes for $1 or $2 on eBay, and I would buy cheap lots .... just because they were cheap.
Found a couple of GE 12SL7GT tubes in my 12V box some time back, and I was surprised how good this tube sounded.
There is a special thrill to get world class sound from inexpensive tubes!


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> Ha another option.
> 
> I'm heading to Malaysia for a holiday in June. I should look you up to have a listen on the Verite.



Not sure if I will have my GOTL by then, but sounds like a plan!


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> IMO, it is not required to use 'exotic tubes' in the GOTL, but there is always a reason to go for one.



Couldn't agree more Luke... I mean Arnold.  GOTL is worthy of exotic tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> cough, cough….



So Lefty you wanted to know how I feel about LCD-3f vs LCD-2f. Let me begin with a story. When I had just acquired HD800, LCD-2f, Eikon and Atticus, someone wrote me a personal message. It goes like this. 'Why have so many mid-fi headphones. You should sell them and get a LCD-3 or better still a LCD-4'. My reply was.. 'Thank you very much but I love my mid-fi(s)'. 

Well I had spend about more than a day listening to the LCD-3f. Much as I have enjoyed the LCD-2f, I find it hard to go back to it now. This is just about better in all departments. Clearer treble, better mids and the bass is amazing. It's smooth and luscious. It is great with vocals. I am certainly enjoying it and am getting the LCD suspension headband together with new ear pads.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Its great when you find your preferred sound and it does not cost an arm and a leg



Joe this applies not only to tubes but also to your other head-fi gear.

Love the simple tube combination in your GOTL. You hear the purity of sound if you don't cramp all kinds of drivers and / or power tubes combination. Wouldn't stop others having fun and experimenting for themselves but having done that, I know how I will roll in future. Why would I mess up the gorgeous tone of the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base by combining it with other drivers... or the Mullard ECC35 for that matter.


----------



## whirlwind

Sounds like you are pretty happy with it .

When I first heard it, I was like.....ok, so this is what liquid mids sound like


----------



## UntilThen

It’s not as revealing hd800 for sure but it’s more musical for sure to my ears.

A very good contrast. I will be keeping both.

There’s a Focal Utopia that’s tempting me too. Amazing how people buy expensive headphones then sell it off at half price.


----------



## mordy

Stellia?


----------



## mordy

I just had an AHA moment - I have been using a new driver for about 50 hours and now suddenly it blossomed and the sound is markedly improved.
There is a beautiful inner glow and energy to the music with scads of layering and detail and everything else.
Running a turbo charged 5 cylinder.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I just had an AHA moment - I have been using a new driver for about 50 hours and now suddenly it blossomed and the sound is markedly improved.
> There is a beautiful inner glow and energy to the music with scads of layering and detail and everything else.
> Running a turbo charged 5 cylinder.....



Nice, Mordy!!

I love it when that happens,  which driver bloomed?


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice, Mordy!!
> 
> I love it when that happens,  which driver bloomed?


An American relative to the French Visseaux  6N7GT - a NU 6N7GT/G.
It is well over 70 years old so no wonder it took some time for it to wake up....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> An American relative to the French Visseaux  6N7GT - a NU 6N7GT/G.
> It is well over 70 years old so no wonder it took some time for it to wake up....



Yes, the 6N7 are rather special in the GOTL. 
Fabulous, in fact.


----------



## Monsterzero

Theres a pair of 600ohm HD250s for sale now(no affiliation). Quite rare.

These headphones are spectacular on the GOTL. No joke.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd250-linear-1-600-ohm.903875/


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Hi Whirlwind,
> There was a time when you could pick up tubes for $1 or $2 on eBay, and I would buy cheap lots .... just because they were cheap.
> Found a couple of GE 12SL7GT tubes in my 12V box some time back, and I was surprised how good this tube sounded.
> There is a special thrill to get world class sound from inexpensive tubes!



I picked up many of my driver tubes in deals where I bought a small lot. It is a great way to get many different brands and get used to their "house sound" so to speak.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> It’s not as revealing hd800 for sure but it’s more musical for sure to my ears.
> 
> A very good contrast. I will be keeping both.
> 
> There’s a Focal Utopia that’s tempting me too. Amazing how people buy expensive headphones then sell it off at half price.



Go for it Matt. HD800, LCD-3, and Utopia will give you heavenly experience. And your incoming Stratus will surely make the LCD-3 a different experience than the GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

Arnold, come to think of it, those 3 headphones will provide 3 very contrasting style, each enjoyable in their own way. 

Now can I persuade you to get a LCD-3f. It's very very good.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> It’s not as revealing hd800 for sure but it’s more musical for sure to my ears.
> 
> A very good contrast. I will be keeping both.
> 
> There’s a Focal Utopia that’s tempting me too. Amazing how people buy expensive headphones then sell it off at half price.




Yes, it sure is. I have bought many of my headphones from the B/S/T forum....many good deals to be had.....just ask a lot of questions in regard to condition.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Had some very interesting training at work....about human bias, and how much we all have it.

I immediately related this to the audio hobby.  We all have bias that is deeply embedded in our brains,   "Truths" we think we "know", from own experiences.  We hold this bias true and dear.  We judge other experiences from the cushy comfort of our own bias.   

It is also factual that the older you are, the less likely you are to be open to re-training your brain to accept another perspective that does not match your own beloved bias.

If you read a lot of the tube opinions here, and see it from the perspective of the individual authors' particular bias, it sheds a whole new light on things.

Some believe that only a rectifier tube makes audio quality worthwhile.
Some believe that only spending gobs of money will earn you audio nirvana.
Some believe that only obtaining the  best sound from the least expensive tubes, achieves the most satisfaction.

Etc, as many biased opinions expressed, are there are posters...

Anyone who proclaims knowledge over a tube combo, who has not even tried it, and has a clear bias that rejects the idea of _ever_ trying it....  


Cheers y'all...


----------



## UsoppNoKami

solution: buy everything to try, don't risk missing out


----------



## Phantaminum

UsoppNoKami said:


> solution: buy everything to try, don't risk missing out



Looks at tube *drawers*. Sigh...


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Arnold, come to think of it, those 3 headphones will provide 3 very contrasting style, each enjoyable in their own way.
> 
> Now can I persuade you to get a LCD-3f. It's very very good.



Matt - I have listened to many LCD-3 in the past even with my Darna. In my recollection, it sounded best with the Woo WA-5 amp (IIRC the model) and the Cavalli Liquid Glass. I almost bought one but then I listened to my HD800 SD on my Darna and I dropped the plan.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> I picked up many of my driver tubes in deals where I bought a small lot. It is a great way to get many different brands and get used to their "house sound" so to speak.


Exactly my experience. Unfortunately the small lots are disappearing and many tubes are now sold singly.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Yes, it sure is. I have bought many of my headphones from the B/S/T forum....many good deals to be had.....just ask a lot of questions in regard to condition.


Which B/S/T forums do you look at?


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Had some very interesting training at work....about human bias, and how much we all have it.
> 
> I immediately related this to the audio hobby.  We all have bias that is deeply embedded in our brains,   "Truths" we think we "know", from own experiences.  We hold this bias true and dear.  We judge other experiences from the cushy comfort of our own bias.
> 
> ...


I would like to add another category: People who listen to their equipment, and people who listen to music.
Making no judgement whatsoever of what is preferable - whatever makes a person happy. And of course, many people use a mix of both of these approaches, searching for the perfect combination for them, and stopping when they find it, and just enjoy the listening.
But extreme cases of the first category may explain why people buy something and sell it for half price since they are always chasing something new.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Which B/S/T forums do you look at?



Mostly, just here at head-fi.

A few years ago I did find a nice deal on a PS Audio Nuwave dac at the Audiogon forums, the person never even had the box open up, LOL.


----------



## whirlwind

UsoppNoKami said:


> solution: buy everything to try, don't risk missing out



Ha....one way to look at it.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> I would like to add another category: People who listen to their equipment, and people who listen to music.
> Making no judgement whatsoever of what is preferable - whatever makes a person happy. *And of course, many people use a mix of both of these approaches, searching for the perfect combination for them, and stopping when they find it, and just enjoy the listening.*



Hi mordy,
Sounds like you're describing me in that last category. 
But whether you like easy Plug and Play or appreciate the Ultimate Roll OTL, nice to have the option.

Even when you do find what is perfect, that too will pass, as you continue to grow and change.
With Glenn's OTL, you just open the tube draw and reach for something else. 
Much easier, and more practical, than searching for an upgrade amp.

Not a debate really, just more options with a very capable and transparent OTL.

LOL Guess you can tell I really like the GOTL.  It's this bias I have...


----------



## Phantaminum

rnros said:


> Hi mordy,
> Sounds like you're describing me in that last category.
> But whether you like easy Plug and Play or appreciate the Ultimate Roll OTL, nice to have the option.
> 
> ...



@rnros I blame you (secretly thankful) on pointing me to Glenn’s OTL. I think I saw it on your signature and it all went downhill (definitely uphill) from there. 

A good example of this amp’s aptitude to make any tube sound great is that I have not found one combination that I hate with my HD650s. Once you settle in and close your eyes that $5.99 GE 6SN7 and $25 Svetlana power pair are all you need. The expensive headphones are pickier.


----------



## mordy

Today three tubes arrived that are hard to find:




This is my favorite driver ATM - the National Union 6N7GT/T. The JC date code indicates October 1946. And the two bottom heater flames indicates lift-off into the sonic stratosphere.
I am going to share how I found these tubes - maybe it is useful to somebody shopping for hard to find tubes.
I went to Google Images and typed in the tube designation. A bunch of pictures came up and many old selling pictures from eBay and other sites. Found an eBay listing from about a year ago. Once you click on the picture you choose, several more pictures show up, and above them is a tag that says Visit. Clicked on it and found that the picture was from a listing that did not sell. Contacted the seller to ask if they still had the tubes. Seller answered no, but two days later the identical ad from before appeared on eBay.
Had to pay a little more than my self imposed $6 limit (shipping included) but not by much.
My first NU 6N7GT/T tube has gray glass but these are clear - seem to sound the same. And they sound splendid.


----------



## Monsterzero (Apr 5, 2019)

My mouse ears 6SN7 arrived DOA. The seller hasnt responded to my message. Will give her til sunday.
Probably not coincidentally she has another identical mouse ear 6SN7 on eBay right now with a minimum bid of $30.00 (mine did not)
My skeptical mind tells me she didnt get what she wanted for my auction,and sent me a dead one an re-posted the one I bid on.
Then again stuff happens,so who knows. If she doesnt respond by Sunday then I will be confident that is the case.


----------



## leftside

I'm biased.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I'm biased.



I must say it's very quiet. I can't hear any noise. You're biasing right.


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> I must say it's very quiet. I can't hear any noise. You're biasing right.



Speaking of quiet, this thread hasn't had a post in a few days.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I must say it's very quiet. I can't hear any noise. You're biasing right.



Yep we are all VERY biased.  

Very very....

Some more than others


----------



## mordy

Hi heliosphann,
I agree with you - just too quiet. I guess that everybody has found their ultimate setup and and are happy listening to all the great music out there....
I am curious if the GEC L63/A1834 combination is going to sound better than my troika setup. Maybe somebody can lend me a pair L63 with a 6SN7 adapter - already have the other half.


----------



## JazzVinyl

For Electric Guitar aficionados ( @whirlwind ) may I suggest:

Artist: Al DiMeola
Album: "The Pursuit Of Radical Rhapsody"


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi heliosphann,
> I agree with you - just too quiet. I guess that everybody has found their ultimate setup and and are happy listening to all the great music out there....
> I am curious if the GEC L63/A1834 combination is going to sound better than my troika setup. Maybe somebody can lend me a pair L63 with a 6SN7 adapter - already have the other half.



Hello Mordy...I have been staying with my favorite combo for a good while now,...find it aurally very satisfying, indeed.

Whole-lee Rolling does seem to interfere a bit with careful listening / intense study,  time...imho.

Cheers...


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> For Electric Guitar aficionados ( @whirlwind ) may I suggest:
> 
> Artist: Al DiMeola
> Album: "The Pursuit Of Radical Rhapsody"



Noted...thanks.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Apr 11, 2019)

Over a year with GOTL. 

Has preformed flawlessly, and been immensely enjoyed.  

Cheers, all....


----------



## Monsterzero

An update:

Awhile back I was having trouble with a 4volt version of the GEC U52. It wasnt getting hot,nor glowing,yet I was getting sound...bad sound,but sound.
The guy who made the adapter agreed to send me another adapter,which arrived the other day,but just tried it out tonight.

Holy Moly! It works!!! My gosh,now I know why Dubstep Girl placed this rectifier just a notch below the WE 422a. This thing sounds killer!
Crazy staging and depth,and bass for days!


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> An update:
> 
> Awhile back I was having trouble with a 4volt version of the GEC U52. It wasnt getting hot,nor glowing,yet I was getting sound...bad sound,but sound.
> The guy who made the adapter agreed to send me another adapter,which arrived the other day,but just tried it out tonight.
> ...



Fantastic, glad the adapter was the problem.
Yes, that rectifier is absolutely wonderful...thanks goes to @gibosi for testing the waters with these 4 volt rectifiers.

Glad you got it working and it was not the tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> An update:
> 
> Awhile back I was having trouble with a 4volt version of the GEC U52. It wasnt getting hot,nor glowing,yet I was getting sound...bad sound,but sound.
> The guy who made the adapter agreed to send me another adapter,which arrived the other day,but just tried it out tonight.
> ...



Very nice, MZ!!

Glad it is working and sounding great! 
Wonderful to claim victory!!


----------



## Phantaminum

Great price for anyone looking for a pair of Tung Sol mouse ears for the GOTL. 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/133007764008


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Great price for anyone looking for a pair of Tung Sol mouse ears for the GOTL.
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/133007764008



I bought one for 20.00. Didnt work.
Seller sent me another. Didnt work either.
Sending em both back and giving up on mouse ears.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> An update:
> 
> Awhile back I was having trouble with a 4volt version of the GEC U52. It wasnt getting hot,nor glowing,yet I was getting sound...bad sound,but sound.
> The guy who made the adapter agreed to send me another adapter,which arrived the other day,but just tried it out tonight.
> ...



I suppose this adapter adapts the 4 volt tube to a 3DG4??


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> I suppose this adapter adapts the 4 volt tube to a 3DG4??



The label on it says FW4-500 to 3DG4


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> The label on it says FW4-500 to 3DG4



So there is nothing in the adapter but wires nice and simple. Surprised the first one didn't work it is so simple.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> I bought one for 20.00. Didnt work.
> Seller sent me another. Didnt work either.
> Sending em both back and giving up on mouse ears.



Yeah. When playing the game of eBay you’ll run into this but thankfully buying from people that allow you to return gives you piece of mind. I think if you buy these from Brent Jesse each one is around $40 each.


----------



## Monsterzero

Is this a Marconi or Fivre as suggested earlier in the thread? Would theyre be any sound difference between it and a GEC B36?


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Is this a Marconi or Fivre as suggested earlier in the thread? Would theyre be any sound difference between it and a GEC B36?



Hmm...that looks more like a Fivre than a Marconi B36. The Marconi's have an umbrella spoke like this:



Look for the staggered plates on the Fivre's. If they're like this from the top / / then it's a safe bet to say it's a Fivre. If they're straight = then it may be rebrand.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Hmm...that looks more like a Fivre than a Marconi B36



Thanks,that might not be horrible though,right? How does it sound vs. the GEC B36?


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks,that might not be horrible though,right? How does it sound vs. the GEC B36?



Quite the opposite of horrible. You got a great tube. 

The Osram-Marconi B36 has sweeter treble presentation and is more forgiving tube compared to the Fivre. I love how the B36 pairs with the Auteur since you get the treble bite without it being strident. The Fivre, has better rhythm, pacing, and speed. It has a deeper and more holographic soundstage. Pair the Fivre up with the 5998s and have yourself a wild head trip. The Fivre resolves better, has better separation, and has the slight edge in imaging. They both have great bass and low end extension. I find that I enjoy the tone and timbre of the Fivre compared to the B36 on the Verite but the opposite when paired with the Auteur. The biggest difference is in how it presents the sound stage: The Fivre has a deep and more layered presentation but it's also recessed compared to the more upfront presentation of the B36 that make vocals pop.

I want to clear up that I don't think the Fivre is a better tube because they're both great tubes. The comparison was done with the Verite which skews the results towards the Fivre. When you switch to the Auteur for the comparison the B36 will win every time. They were just....so boring and flat with the Auteurs.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Quite the opposite of horrible. You got a great tube.



Thanks for that.

I havent purchased the tube in question,yet. I was wanting to know how it would sound prior to pulling the trigger.
I have a major tube purchase(for me)coming up this weekend,and depending upon how much cash it ends up being,if I have funds left over I might get the Marconi Fivre based upon your comments.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

heliosphann said:


> I almost bid on those a few days ago. Glad they went to someone on here!



They finally arrived ...


----------



## Monsterzero

UsoppNoKami said:


> They finally arrived ...



Nice! Please let me know how you like them with the Verite.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Monsterzero said:


> Nice! Please let me know how you like them with the Verite.



I don't have the GOTL yet, but will certainly share when I do


----------



## Monsterzero

UsoppNoKami said:


> I don't have the GOTL yet, but will certainly share when I do



Oh well,it looks like I will know before you do


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Monsterzero said:


> Oh well,it looks like I will know before you do



Haha! Hope it's enjoyable


----------



## heliosphann

I'm still waiting on my Verite, GOTL and scoring a pair of GEC's, so I'm 0 for 3.

☹️


----------



## whirlwind

Giving the GEL3N some love this morning...it is driving the ZMF Atticus in one tube mode






I listened to this album three times yesterday, and I am starting the morning off with it again today!
If you like blues/blues rock it is a great listen.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice Joe 

I was listening to Bonamassa and then Joe Cocker’s Sheffield Steel


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Very nice Joe
> 
> I was listening to Bonamassa and then Joe Cocker’s Sheffield Steel




Hi Starvos.

I love both of those "Joe's"  

Sheffield Steel is a great album..."Seven Days"..."Sweet Little Woman"


----------



## rosgr63

Many rivers to cross

It’s been over 30 years since I played it last

I’m not showing my age am I?


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Many rivers to cross
> 
> It’s been over 30 years since I played it last
> 
> I’m not showing my age am I?




Ha!....Maybe just a little bit.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

heliosphann said:


> I'm still waiting on my Verite, GOTL and scoring a pair of GEC's, so I'm 0 for 3.
> 
> ☹️



Good things come to those who wait , I'm sure your tally will go up soon


----------



## 2359glenn

UsoppNoKami said:


> Good things come to those who wait , I'm sure your tally will go up soon



Building one now brings you guys closer to getting yours.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

2359glenn said:


> Building one now brings you guys closer to getting yours.



Cheers to that   Hope you're doing well mate!


----------



## lukeap69

UsoppNoKami said:


> Good things come to those who wait , I'm sure your tally will go up soon



I can assure you, GOTL is worth the wait! The problem is, will you have enough sleep when you received your GOTL?


----------



## mordy

lukeap69 said:


> I can assure you, GOTL is worth the wait! The problem is, will you have enough sleep when you received your GOTL?


What do you mean? I fall asleep listening to it in the middle of the night!


----------



## UsoppNoKami

lukeap69 said:


> I can assure you, GOTL is worth the wait! The problem is, will you have enough sleep when you received your GOTL?



sleep is for the weak... or so they say .... lol


----------



## Monsterzero

Are there inherent risks in using tubes that have "loose particles" inside?


----------



## Phantaminum

For those that have the EL8s, were there any significant changes after full burn? I'm still really undecided on these tubes but by experience some of the best tubes I have I originally thought were uninspiring.


----------



## Monsterzero (Apr 14, 2019)

I really enjoy the tone of the el8 when matched with warmer power and rectifiers. However the depth is really lacking, at least on the Verite. I find them too bright I have other tubes I like better for my other headphones


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Are there inherent risks in using tubes that have "loose particles" inside?


Sometimes there are loose glass beads inside a tube and it will rattle a little when you shake it - don't think it is something to worry about.
If a metal piece is loose it could be cause for concern. I have a TS BGRP 12SN7 that one of the little clips (heat radiator?) came loose from above the top mica. I taped on a little round neodymium magnet outside the glass envelope to hold it securely in place attached to the glass, but maybe this is living dangerously......


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> For those that have the EL8s, were there any significant changes after full burn? I'm still really undecided on these tubes but by experience some of the best tubes I have I originally thought were uninspiring.


I, too, found the EL8 not too inspiring in the beginning with lack of bass, but using them with a third driver is a different story and I get glorious sound with VSX or NU 6N7GT or TS BGRP 6SN7/12SN7 (+ a pair of 2.5A output tubes.)
There is no doubt in my mind that burn-in makes it sound better, but I don't know if I should attribute it to the 6N7GT or EL8 - probably both.


----------



## Velozity

I ordered a GOTL today.  Can't wait to join the family!


----------



## Monsterzero

Velozity said:


> I ordered a GOTL today.  Can't wait to join the family!



Congrats! What build options did you opt for?

On a tube rolling note....

Oh Verite loves,simply loves GEC tubes! The GEC rectifier+ GEC B36...damn! The staging is dancing in and out and all around my head.
I wonder if the GEC power tubes will be too much of a good thing?


----------



## Velozity

Monsterzero said:


> Congrats! What build options did you opt for?
> 
> On a tube rolling note....
> 
> ...





I ordered the 4 tube version since I will mainly be using it at work (size matters).  Added the Lundahl transformer, Goldpoint attenuator, and a couple adapters for the driver.  What is the GEC rectifier you are using, U52?  Is the B36 a direct swap for 6SN7?


----------



## Monsterzero (Apr 14, 2019)

Velozity said:


> Is the B36 a direct swap for 6SN7?


No,its a 12 volt driver,which can only be used on the GOTL with the 6/12/25 volt option. If you can afford this option I highly recommend it. Not only does it give you many more driver options,but the 12 volt versions of legendary 6SN7s can be had for sometimes significantly less cash. It will pay for itself in no time if you plan on doing any rolling.


Velozity said:


> What is the GEC rectifier you are using, U52?


Yes.


----------



## UntilThen

Velozity said:


> I ordered a GOTL today.  Can't wait to join the family!



Congrats! At it’s price point nothing will touch it. You will love it.

In my humble and bias opinion of course.


----------



## rnros

Velozity said:


> I ordered a GOTL today.  Can't wait to join the family!



Congrats. Good choice.


----------



## Velozity

Oh I have a question I forgot to ask Glenn but I'm sure you guys can answer.  Is the XLR output just for convenience with existing cables or is it actually balanced with higher output?  I assume the former.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> I, too, found the EL8 not too inspiring in the beginning with lack of bass, but using them with a third driver is a different story and I get glorious sound with VSX or NU 6N7GT or TS BGRP 6SN7/12SN7 (+ a pair of 2.5A output tubes.)
> There is no doubt in my mind that burn-in makes it sound better, but I don't know if I should attribute it to the 6N7GT or EL8 - probably both.



I’d love to try out the 6N7GT. I may need to get the adapters for the c3g slots and the dual 6N7GT to 6SN7 adapter. I’ll have to wait possibly until September to order them and the tubes. 

Sounds like an amazing pairing.


----------



## Monsterzero

Velozity said:


> Is the XLR output just for convenience with existing cables or is it actually balanced with higher output? I assume the former.



Correct,for convenience....AFAIK


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I’d love to try out the 6N7GT. I may need to get the adapters for the c3g slots and the dual 6N7GT to 6SN7 adapter. I’ll have to wait possibly until September to order them and the tubes.
> 
> Sounds like an amazing pairing.



You only need one 6N7gt with an adapter in the 6SN7 slot. It’s a double triode.

You will use the same adapter as ECC31, 6N7G and 6N7.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Congrats! What build options did you opt for?
> 
> On a tube rolling note....
> 
> ...


Should be fine  One of my favorite combos in my other amp is GEC 6AS7G, GEC L63 and Osram/GEC U52. All my amps and headphones like GEC tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

Velozity said:


> I ordered a GOTL today.  Can't wait to join the family!



Congrats, it will be worth the wait and will pair nicely with that incoming ZMF Burl wood Eikon.
That burl wood is some of the prettiest wood that I have seen.
Glenns amp is just as beautiful.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> I’d love to try out the 6N7GT. I may need to get the adapters for the c3g slots and the dual 6N7GT to 6SN7 adapter. I’ll have to wait possibly until September to order them and the tubes.
> 
> Sounds like an amazing pairing.


How do you use the EL8 if you don’t use them in the C3g sockets?


----------



## Phantaminum (Apr 15, 2019)

mordy said:


> How do you use the EL8 if you don’t use them in the C3g sockets?



I purchased the dual EL8s to 6SN7 adapter. This was before I knew that other gentlemen sold the EL8 to c3g adapter. Could be I don’t like them because of this and should really just order the adapters now.


----------



## rosgr63

Velozity said:


> I ordered a GOTL today.  Can't wait to join the family!



Congratulations 
Great choice

I suggest the 12/25V option and solid state Hefred rectifiers to keep tube requirements to a minimum

The OTL is not a balanced amp


----------



## mordy

Also suggest C3g option and Lundahl transformer.


----------



## Velozity

mordy said:


> Also suggest C3g option and Lundahl transformer.




I got the basic OTL so I don't think there is a C3G option?  At least Glenn didn't mention it.  I did get the Lundahl transformer though.  You guys have talked me into getting the preamp voltage switch too.  Though I just bought a few 6SN7 tubes on ebay.  It's going to be a long three months of tube hoarding, lol.


----------



## mordy

Velozity said:


> I got the basic OTL so I don't think there is a C3G option?  At least Glenn didn't mention it.  I did get the Lundahl transformer though.  You guys have talked me into getting the preamp voltage switch too.  Though I just bought a few 6SN7 tubes on ebay.  It's going to be a long three months of tube hoarding, lol.


Whatever you get, it will make you happy. The advantage of the the 12/25V switch is that some 6V tubes come in 12 (and 25V) versions and since many amps cannot use them, they are less expensive.
How many sockets are there in your basic amp?


----------



## Velozity

mordy said:


> Whatever you get, it will make you happy. The advantage of the the 12/25V switch is that some 6V tubes come in 12 (and 25V) versions and since many amps cannot use them, they are less expensive.
> How many sockets are there in your basic amp?




Four.  2 x 6AS7G, 1 x 6SN7, 1 x 3DG4


----------



## Phantaminum

Velozity said:


> Four.  2 x 6AS7G, 1 x 6SN7, 1 x 3DG4



That’s really all you need Vel. Great choice and you’ll love the amp. Grab yourself a pair of cheap Svetlana 6h13cs power tubes and are you’re ready to rock.


----------



## Velozity (Apr 16, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> That’s really all you need Vel. Great choice and you’ll love the amp. Grab yourself a pair of cheap Svetlana 6h13cs power tubes and are you’re ready to rock.




Thanks Phanta.  Just bought these a few minutes ago.  I know how hard they are to find.  I’ll use them in my Jade until the GOTL shows up.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/323779153308


----------



## Monsterzero

Velozity said:


> Thanks Phanta.  Just bought these a few minutes ago on impulse.  I know how hard they are to find.  I’ll use them in my Jade until the GOTL shows up.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/323779153308





I guess he's not messing around.


----------



## heliosphann

Dang, just what I need. More competition sniping tubes I want! lol


----------



## ewwgin

Hey guys, i'm new here and would like some advice. I'm interested in getting a GOTL for my Aeolus, and possibly a Verite further down the road. I listen mainly to pop, classical, some jazz and movie soundtracks, and especially love organic sounding strings, pianos, and female vocals. I am aiming to keep/enhance the natural, lush and smooth characteristics of mids and vocals but would like a slightly extended treble, and a wider stage with more open, yet cohesive sound from my Aeolus. Although I usually prefer smooth and laid-back sound over detail and resolution, I am also willing to explore brighter tubes for improved detail retrieval on some listening occasions. In terms of the forwardness of mids and vocals, although I enjoy intimacy, I find the Aeolus a tad too forward (mids and vocals) sometimes and would appreciate having some flexibility in this regard as well. I am also not much of a bass head and do not require harder bass slamming options. 

May I ask for some recommendations (in terms of options to choose for my GOTL and tubes to start me off) that will elevate my Aeolus towards my preferences, yet have tube-rolling flexibility to accommodate a potential Verite in the future? Budget-wise, I am comfortable with ~1.2K USD for the GOTL.


----------



## Monsterzero

ewwgin said:


> Hey guys, i'm new here and would like some advice. I'm interested in getting a GOTL for my Aeolus, and possibly a Verite further down the road. I listen mainly to pop, classical, some jazz and movie soundtracks, and especially love organic sounding strings, pianos, and female vocals. I am aiming to keep/enhance the natural, lush and smooth characteristics of mids and vocals but would like a slightly extended treble, and a wider stage with more open, yet cohesive sound from my Aeolus. Although I usually prefer smooth and laid-back sound over detail and resolution, I am also willing to explore brighter tubes for improved detail retrieval on some listening occasions. In terms of the forwardness of mids and vocals, although I enjoy intimacy, I find the Aeolus a tad too forward (mids and vocals) sometimes and would appreciate having some flexibility in this regard as well. I am also not much of a bass head and do not require harder bass slamming options.
> 
> May I ask for some recommendations (in terms of options to choose for my GOTL and tubes to start me off) that will elevate my Aeolus towards my preferences, yet have tube-rolling flexibility to accommodate a potential Verite in the future? Budget-wise, I am comfortable with ~1.2K USD for the GOTL.



Welcome ewwgin. I think we have chatted on my YouTube channel,no?

I will let the vets who have helped me guide you thru options and tube rolls. Once you get your Verite let me and @Phantaminum know and we can def assist on fine tuning it.


----------



## ewwgin

Monsterzero said:


> Welcome ewwgin. I think we have chatted on my YouTube channel,no?
> 
> I will let the vets who have helped me guide you thru options and tube rolls. Once you get your Verite let me and @Phantaminum know and we can def assist on fine tuning it.


Ah yes, we most definitely have. A Verite is most certainly in my pipeline, but not so soon. Thoroughly enjoying my Aeolus and DT1990 at the moment, which covers many bases in my opinion. When I eventually get a Verite, i'll definitely hit you guys up.


----------



## lukeap69

ewwgin said:


> Hey guys, i'm new here and would like some advice. I'm interested in getting a GOTL for my Aeolus, and possibly a Verite further down the road. I listen mainly to pop, classical, some jazz and movie soundtracks, and especially love organic sounding strings, pianos, and female vocals. I am aiming to keep/enhance the natural, lush and smooth characteristics of mids and vocals but would like a slightly extended treble, and a wider stage with more open, yet cohesive sound from my Aeolus. Although I usually prefer smooth and laid-back sound over detail and resolution, I am also willing to explore brighter tubes for improved detail retrieval on some listening occasions. In terms of the forwardness of mids and vocals, although I enjoy intimacy, I find the Aeolus a tad too forward (mids and vocals) sometimes and would appreciate having some flexibility in this regard as well. I am also not much of a bass head and do not require harder bass slamming options.
> 
> May I ask for some recommendations (in terms of options to choose for my GOTL and tubes to start me off) that will elevate my Aeolus towards my preferences, yet have tube-rolling flexibility to accommodate a potential Verite in the future? Budget-wise, I am comfortable with ~1.2K USD for the GOTL.



I suggest the same configuration as @UntilThen Ulysses plus two sockets for EL3N drivers. Not sure how much will cost though. You have to ask Glenn.


----------



## ewwgin

lukeap69 said:


> I suggest the same configuration as @UntilThen Ulysses plus two sockets for EL3N drivers. Not sure how much will cost though. You have to ask Glenn.


Thank you for your suggestion, I will read more into that configuration.


----------



## lukeap69

ewwgin said:


> Thank you for your suggestion, I will read more into that configuration.



This will be a tube roller's dream that even @UntilThen will be envious of.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> This will be a tube roller's dream that even @UntilThen will be envious of.



Who dares to wake UT out of his slumber? Be careful of Ulysses roar.


----------



## whirlwind

The GOTL with the EL3N option would be a great amp for sure, but if you combine all of the other upgrades, like Lundahl, six power sockets, 6/12/25 volt switch and figure in the upgraded sockets for the EL3N tubes you are getting close to being better off with the EL3N amp....just my opinion of course....it would still be a killer OTL amp also.

That would be a tough decision on what to decide on...I guess if you are going to go down the rabbit hole of rolling tubes then the OTL is a must.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> Who dares to wake UT out of his slumber? Be careful of Ulysses roar.


And to think that I started the EL3N sockets idea based on your configs...big thumbs up!!! Super 9? Better "winning eleven"


----------



## UntilThen

ewwgin said:


> Hey guys, i'm new here and would like some advice. I'm interested in getting a GOTL for my Aeolus, and possibly a Verite further down the road. I listen mainly to pop, classical, some jazz and movie soundtracks, and especially love organic sounding strings, pianos, and female vocals. I am aiming to keep/enhance the natural, lush and smooth characteristics of mids and vocals but would like a slightly extended treble, and a wider stage with more open, yet cohesive sound from my Aeolus. Although I usually prefer smooth and laid-back sound over detail and resolution, I am also willing to explore brighter tubes for improved detail retrieval on some listening occasions. In terms of the forwardness of mids and vocals, although I enjoy intimacy, I find the Aeolus a tad too forward (mids and vocals) sometimes and would appreciate having some flexibility in this regard as well. I am also not much of a bass head and do not require harder bass slamming options.
> 
> May I ask for some recommendations (in terms of options to choose for my GOTL and tubes to start me off) that will elevate my Aeolus towards my preferences, yet have tube-rolling flexibility to accommodate a potential Verite in the future? Budget-wise, I am comfortable with ~1.2K USD for the GOTL.



Ah... another Singaporean. Please to meet you. How's the satay?

Your request is huge but no worries. That's where the GOTL comes in. It comes in 2 flavours. One with tube rectifiers and the other - that's the one in the picture below. For versatility choose the former. For looks, choose Ulysses - again that's the one in the picture below.

So what does Ulysses have? Here are the specs:-

1 x 6sn7 / 12sn7 / 25sn7 driver tube input
2 x c3g driver tube input
6 x 6BL7 power tubes or 2 x 6as7 / 6080 power tubes or 4 x 6as7 / 6080 power tubes
6.3 / 12.6 / 25.2 volt switch
5998 boost switch (optional)
Gold Point attenuator 37 steps (optional)
Lundahl transformer

For a cost effective OTL amp that will satisfy your A - Z headphones, genres from dubstep to classical, go with the above configuration without the optional(s).

For more twitch to roll, add in the tube rectifier but as I say the picture below is a Michelangelo's creation. A real beauty.


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> And to think that I started the EL3N sockets idea based on your configs...big thumbs up!!! Super 9? Better "winning eleven"



I have to see your amp first to determine if it's Donatello's sculpture.


----------



## Sound Trooper (Apr 16, 2019)

ewwgin said:


> Hey guys, i'm new here and would like some advice. I'm interested in getting a GOTL for my Aeolus, and possibly a Verite further down the road. I listen mainly to pop, classical, some jazz and movie soundtracks, and especially love organic sounding strings, pianos, and female vocals. I am aiming to keep/enhance the natural, lush and smooth characteristics of mids and vocals but would like a slightly extended treble, and a wider stage with more open, yet cohesive sound from my Aeolus. Although I usually prefer smooth and laid-back sound over detail and resolution, I am also willing to explore brighter tubes for improved detail retrieval on some listening occasions. In terms of the forwardness of mids and vocals, although I enjoy intimacy, I find the Aeolus a tad too forward (mids and vocals) sometimes and would appreciate having some flexibility in this regard as well. I am also not much of a bass head and do not require harder bass slamming options.
> 
> May I ask for some recommendations (in terms of options to choose for my GOTL and tubes to start me off) that will elevate my Aeolus towards my preferences, yet have tube-rolling flexibility to accommodate a potential Verite in the future? Budget-wise, I am comfortable with ~1.2K USD for the GOTL.



Hello fellow countryman, spring for a GEL3N. You wouldn't regret it.. 

Thank me later..


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Hello fellow countryman, spring for a GEL3N. You wouldn't regret it..
> 
> Thank me later..



GEL3N is a beautiful looking amp, especially @Sound Trooper's model.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> GEL3N is a beautiful looking amp, especially @Sound Trooper's model.



Gosh! My GEL3N is the "XXL" model.. Anyway all of Glenn's amps are works of art. Both aesthetically and sonic-ally..


----------



## felix3650 (Apr 16, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I have to see your amp first to determine if it's Donatello's sculpture.


Thanks to @Sound Trooper @whirlwind I opted for the GEL3N in the end. Less wallet cries and closer to 2A3 sound! Still saving up (almost there..). But yours, well I kept collecting pics after pics with the various configs


----------



## ewwgin

UntilThen said:


> Ah... another Singaporean. Please to meet you. How's the satay?
> 
> Your request is huge but no worries. That's where the GOTL comes in. It comes in 2 flavours. One with tube rectifiers and the other - that's the one in the picture below. For versatility choose the former. For looks, choose Ulysses - again that's the one in the picture below.
> 
> ...


Hey there, nice to meet you too! Satay is great. Thank you for the detailed breakdown of the specs and suggestions. And as you said, your GOTL looks stunning indeed. Something tells me that this configuration will definitely exceed my budget, but I am keeping my options open. I can definitely see the value of going straight for a decked-out configuration that can handle a wide variety of genres and headphones. I will read deeper into your suggested options later when I get home (1.7k pages O__o). Some members also suggested that with all these options added onto a GOTL amp, it may be nearing GEL3N territory. I will also read into that option. I'll let you know if I need more help. Thanks a lot man.


----------



## ewwgin

Sound Trooper said:


> Hello fellow countryman, spring for a GEL3N. You wouldn't regret it..
> 
> Thank me later..


Hey man, nice to meet you. That is a tempting proposition. Let me read into the GEL3N option later when I get home. Thanks for your input.


----------



## lukeap69

ewwgin said:


> Hey man, nice to meet you. That is a tempting proposition. Let me read into the GEL3N option later when I get home. Thanks for your input.


Wouldn't it be amazing to have a GEL3N XXL and a Super GOTL in the same area? 

I mean you probably can exchange amps every two months. LOL

Whatever happened to @jelt2359 Hyper GOTL? I believe Jason is also in Singapore. You guys are spoiled with wonderful Glenn amps!


----------



## Sound Trooper

felix3650 said:


> Thanks to @Sound Trooper @whirlwind I opted for the GEL3N in the end. Less wallet cries and closer to 2A3 sound! Still saving up (almost there..). But yours, well I kept collecting pics after pics with the various configs



Wise choice! The GEL3N sounds fantastic without needing to roll tubes. Just get a decent rectifier tube and you are all set.



ewwgin said:


> Hey man, nice to meet you. That is a tempting proposition. Let me read into the GEL3N option later when I get home. Thanks for your input.



Take your time and look at your options, drop me a PM if you want to hear the GEL3N.



lukeap69 said:


> Wouldn't it be amazing to have a GEL3N XXL and a Super GOTL in the same area?
> 
> I mean you probably can exchange amps every two months. LOL
> 
> Whatever happened to @jelt2359 Hyper GOTL? I believe Jason is also in Singapore. You guys are spoiled with wonderful Glenn amps!



Woah! A hyper GOTL sounds super interesting, would love to give it a go if I get a chance.


----------



## Monsterzero

I think we all love our GOTL so much that were all going to suggest what we have.
With all due respect to other owners,I would suggest getting the HEXFRED/Tube rectifier option in addition to what UT has....which is essentially what I have.
The rectifier tube in the Glenn does indeed make more than a subtle difference in the sound.
Im absolutely in love with the sound of the GEC U52 with the Verite.


----------



## mordy

Could not resist posting this video of a steel band from Switzerland playing calypso. There are some twenty people in the band, all ages, and they all seem to really enjoy themselves. It starts a little slow, but the enthusiasm picks up. This recording brings a smile to my face....

I have reached a stage with the GOTL that I don't feel the need to roll more tubes - just enjoying listening......


----------



## leftside

My Google skills are letting me down today. Anyone know where I can get tube holder/stands like this?


----------



## rosgr63

I’m stuck too

I’ve used socket savers before


----------



## UntilThen

When I finish with my scotch tape, I use the inner core. It's free.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice Matt

I like it


----------



## UntilThen

Stavros, Mr Scotch must be a tube lover. This fits driver and power tubes perfectly and it's white plastic.


----------



## leftside

Fits almost perfectly! Thanks.

In addition to wooden tube stand/holder, I also searched for napkin rings, eyelet rings, wooden rings, etc. Scotch tape ring will do


----------



## rosgr63

Looks nice and it’s free

Can’t go wrong


----------



## UntilThen

Do you know why it's call Scotch tape? 

The use of the term _Scotch_ in the name was a pejorative meaning "stingy" in the 1920s and 1930s. The brand name Scotch came about around 1925 while Richard Drew was testing his first masking tape to determine how much adhesive he needed to add. The bodyshop painter became frustrated with the sample masking tape and exclaimed, "Take this tape back to those Scotch bosses of yours and tell them to put more adhesive on it!" The name was soon applied to the entire line of 3M tapes. - Wikipedia


----------



## leftside

Surprised it hasn't been banned then in this "PC world"


----------



## rosgr63

It’s getting better....


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> My Google skills are letting me down today. Anyone know where I can get tube holder/stands like this?



Do you have any friends who are wood workers? Probably easy with the right equipment.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Do you have any friends who are wood workers? Probably easy with the right equipment.


Yes, I have a wood worker around the corner from me who built my amp stands and turntable stand. That was going to be my next port of call after trying here.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Yes, I have a wood worker around the corner from me who built my amp stands and turntable stand. That was going to be my next port of call after trying here.


I was going to take a picture of my plastic 3/4" tape ring but UT beat me to it.....BTW, I ordered a fancy photo studio so I can take professional tube pictures but it is stuck somewhere in shipping.


----------



## 2359glenn

Was just listening to  UT's amp with EL32/CV1052 in the C3G sockets. Except for a little background static in one of the tubes these tubes
sound really good. I liked them would have never thought of using them. Actually liked them more then the FDD20 
They have less gain but more then enough volume for me and nice highs not harsh at all this is with my Auteur.
I might have to make some 6J5 to EL32 adapters to use them in my amp


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Was just listening to  UT's amp with EL32/CV1052 in the C3G sockets. Except for a little background static in one of the tubes these tubes
> sound really good. I liked them would have never thought of using them. Actually liked them more then the FDD20
> They have less gain but more then enough volume for me and nice highs not harsh at all this is with my Auteur.
> I might have to make some 6J5 to EL32 adapters to use them in my amp



Good lord, my Ulysses is alive. Muah, muah. 

Right ! I'll get Deyan to make me EL32 to c3g adapters then. I also have the 'coke' bottle Mullard EL32 besides the straight tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

If you look back at my impressions, I like the EL32 a lot.... for 2 days. Then trouble begins with the crackles. I think it's all coincidence. The resistors in my amp goes off at about that time. So I have 2 weeks of bliss with EL3N, EL11, EL8, EL13 and then EL32... and then kaput !


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> nice highs not harsh at all



That is one of the traits of EL32.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> If you look back at my impressions, I like the EL32 a lot.... for 2 days. Then trouble begins with the crackles. I think it's all coincidence. The resistors in my amp goes off at about that time. So I have 2 weeks of bliss with EL3N, EL11, EL8, EL13 and then EL32... and then kaput !



The replacement resistors are much higher wattage and can't burn out even if you break the tube and short it out.
Don't really know why the resistors burned in the first place. they might be just defective they were expensive high end resistors.
Should have known better then use audiophile parts over priced junk.


----------



## 2359glenn

That Chinese adapter is fine wired wright and works


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> That Chinese adapter is fine wired wright and works


Hi Glenn,
Do you have the opportunity to try the EL32 with 6x6BX7? With this combination I had all kinds of scary pops and crackles and I think JV as well. However, the pops did not happen right away but after some time.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Was just listening to  UT's amp with EL32/CV1052 in the C3G sockets. Except for a little background static in one of the tubes these tubes
> sound really good. I liked them would have never thought of using them. Actually liked them more then the FDD20
> They have less gain but more then enough volume for me and nice highs not harsh at all this is with my Auteur.
> I might have to make some 6J5 to EL32 adapters to use them in my amp


The EL32 is one of the few real bargains out there - around $5 each:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL32-CV105...000486&hash=item3cb6d18dea:g:ChYAAOxyZqhRikaL


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> Do you have the opportunity to try the EL32 with 6x6BX7? With this combination I had all kinds of scary pops and crackles and I think JV as well. However, the pops did not happen right away but after some time.



Did the crackle/pops happen with all the EL32s, or just the straight bottle version?
I remember those reports, for that reason I was hesitant to try them with the 6BX7s.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> That Chinese adapter is fine wired wright and works



Good to know ! Now I never for once felt that there's a mismatch between EL32 and 6BX7 or 6BL7. It's a case of blown resistor or for some, bad 6BX7s. 

What do you think Glenn? Can you pop in 6 x 6BX7 with EL32. I hear real sonic goodness with that combo.


----------



## mordy (Apr 17, 2019)

rnros said:


> Did the crackle/pops happen with all the EL32s, or just the straight bottle version?
> I remember those reports, for that reason I was hesitant to try them with the 6BX7s.


I only have the straight glass EL32. WIth other driver tubes and the 6BX7 sextet I did not have problems. And as mentioned, the problems took some time to show up.


----------



## rnros (Apr 18, 2019)

mordy said:


> I only have the straight glass EL32. WIth other driver tubes and the 6BX7 sextet I did not have problems. And as mentioned, the problems took some time to show up.



Same here, I never had any problem with 6BX7s. Just never tried that combo of EL32 and 6BX7.
Not typical, or likely, but still a possibility that the problem is with a particular batch or production run of the EL32.
I have the ST bottles and they were fine with the other drivers I use.
Also have the EL2s, same tube as the EL32 but with side comtact base, and those were also fine.

The straight bottle EL32 is a nice looking tube, wanted to give it a try. Only $5!
IIRC, the STs are about $20, EL2s about $12.


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> Same here, I never had any problem with 6BX7s. Just never tried that combo of EL32 and 6BX7.
> Not typical, or likely, but still a possibility that the problem is with a particular batch or production run of the EL32.
> I have the ST bottles and they were fine with the other drivers I use.
> Also have the EL2s, same tube as the EL32 but with side comtact base, and those were also fine.
> ...


What kind of adapter do you use for the EL2?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Good to know ! Now I never for once felt that there's a mismatch between EL32 and 6BX7 or 6BL7. It's a case of blown resistor or for some, bad 6BX7s.
> 
> What do you think Glenn? Can you pop in 6 x 6BX7 with EL32. I hear real sonic goodness with that combo.



I don't have 6BX7 gave the last ones I had away with a amp.


----------



## UntilThen

No worries Glenn. I've a ton of tubes that will make the GOTL sing. Have you tried the Mullard ECC35? Let me know what you think.


----------



## rnros (Apr 18, 2019)

mordy said:


> What kind of adapter do you use for the EL2?



EL2 has similar pinout to EL3N/EL8, except with top grid cap. So used the EL3N 2fer adapter in the 6SN7 socket.
Just have to use a grid cap and connect to the proper pin/blade in the base. Easy to do.
Of course, you can do the same with the Deyan adapters in the C3g socket.
This was before you found Deyan... Thanks again for that. : )

EL2s are Philips, EL32s are Mullard, and I did notice a sound difference between the two.
Think I preferred the EL32, but did not really spend much time with it.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> I don't have 6BX7 gave the last ones I had away with a amp.


Remember the 6x6BX7 vs 2x6AS7 debate? I guess this settles it lol.........


----------



## UntilThen

The 6 x 6BX7 or 6BL7 reign supreme in Ulysses. There's no doubt about that for me.

However if others prefers 2 x 6as7, that means I'll have more 6B*7 to myself. 

Now the question would be - why would you get GOTL Super 9 or 10 or 11 if you prefer 2 x 6as7? You're better off with the basic GOTL which is cheaper and Glenn can build you one with oak or teak. Can't remember which.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have been using the EL32's via the China adapters in C3g sockets...as triplet with a 6N7 with 2x 6H13C as powers for a couple of months and had had absolutely zero noise problems.

Since the triplet has a lot of gain, I prefer the lower gain of the 6H13C vs 6BX/BL7's.

When I first tried EL32 w/6x 6BL7, I did have some POPS after a couple days while the set was warning up,  I switched to 2x 6H13C's and never again had another noise or POP problem.

I did not test EL32 and 6x 6BL7 extensively, I relinquished that set at the first sign of trouble.

Therefore I cannot say for 100% certain that the 6x 6BL7 were in fact the cause of POP's...but it seemed that way to me at the time.  

As a side note...UT, earlier in this thread, reported some "strident" characteristics from his 6N7's in the GOTL and I agree with what he said, but the addition of the EL32's mellows out the 'strident', from the 6N7 and the pair work well very together to make a sonic fabric that I really enjoy.

Another note, in my amp...use of just the 6N7 (no EL32's) and 6x 6BX or BL7's - results in hum that is readily apparent.  The hum goes away completely, with use of the 6AS7G or 6H13C's as powers.

Cheers and good listen'in...all


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Now the question would be - why would you get GOTL Super 9 or 10 or 11 if you prefer 2 x 6as7? You're better off with the basic GOTL which is cheaper and Glenn can build you one with oak or teak. Can't remember which.



1> Who knew the 6AS7's in GOTL would preform so well (Glenn knew it).  All us us formerly FA amp peeps knew multiple 6BX/BL7's sounded better in that amp, than 6AS7G...

2> Get hum with 6N7 and 6x 6BX or BL7's...

Those are my 2 excuses.

I already said "if I had it to do again, I would get 6N7 / EL32 all w/native sockets and bias resistors optimized for these tubes and 2x 6H13C sockets, in a smaller footprint amp."


----------



## mordy

I share JV's sentiments, running a NU 6N7GT with EL8 and RCA 6080 tubes. However, I don't mind at all having the Super 9 GOTL since there are so many opportunities for future tube rolling (although I am inclined to stay with my current combination.)
IF GOOD IS GOOD, ISN'T BETTER BETTER?


----------



## JazzVinyl (Apr 18, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Was just listening to  UT's amp with EL32/CV1052 in the C3G sockets. Except for a little background static in one of the tubes these tubes
> sound really good. I liked them would have never thought of using them. Actually liked them more then the FDD20
> They have less gain but more then enough volume for me and nice highs not harsh at all this is with my Auteur.
> I might have to make some 6J5 to EL32 adapters to use them in my amp



Glenn...now just add a 6N7 and see what you think....


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Glenn...now just add a 6N7 and see what you think....



How about the FDD20?  really a 12 volt 6N7.


----------



## Velozity

UntilThen said:


> Now the question would be - why would you get GOTL Super 9 or 10 or 11 if you prefer 2 x 6as7? You're better off with the basic GOTL which is cheaper and Glenn can build you one with oak or teak. Can't remember which.




Wait, what? The basic GOTL is available in a wooden version??  Glenn didn't mention that...


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Another note, in my amp...use of just the 6N7 (no EL32's) and 6x 6BX or BL7's - results in hum that is readily apparent. The hum goes away completely, with use of the 6AS7G



Same.

Has kinda soured me on 6bx7s.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> How about the FDD20?  really a 12 volt 6N7.



It will work, I do find Visseaux 6N7 sounded a little better than FDD20


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Same.
> 
> Has kinda soured me on 6bx7s.



I get no hum when using other drivers’ seems to be unique to 6N7 and the 6BX/BL7’s.


----------



## UntilThen

Velozity said:


> Wait, what? The basic GOTL is available in a wooden version??  Glenn didn't mention that...



Talk to him. Probably have to pay more for the wood version.


----------



## UntilThen

Looks like the future of 6bx7 / 6bl7 is good. Anyway only a very small representation here who doesn’t like these power tubes or who have hum issues with them.

I have many choice drivers that are quiet with sextet 6bx7.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> GOTL Super 9 or 10 or 11.


What's the Super 11? Super 9 + rectifier + ?


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> What's the Super 11? Super 9 + rectifier + ?



Super 9 + 2 x EL3N or 2 x EL32


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> What's the Super 11? Super 9 + rectifier + ?



Or Super 9 plus 2 rectifiers - 4 or 5 volt  So you can use any rectifiers you want haha.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Super 9 + 2 x EL3N or 2 x EL32


Cool. So Super 12 would also have the tube rectifier then.


----------



## UntilThen

I will have an tube amp in the foreseeable future. Since I cancel the DNA Stratus, it could be a GEL3N or a 300b amp. All in good time because mountain and water is keeping me entertained big time right now.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Cool. So Super 12 would also have the tube rectifier then.



Anything is possible ! Glenn will have to find you a very big case. As big as your 300b amp case.


----------



## lukeap69

I am with @UntilThen for the 6BX7/6BL7 for my HD800 SD. Still the best power tubes for my favourite pair of headphones of all time. The GEC 6AS7G and TS5998 are closed second. However, for my HD650, I prefer the 6AS7 over the 6BX7/6BL7. If I have to do it again, it will be Ulysses plus EL3N sockets.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> I will have an tube amp in the foreseeable future. Since I cancel the DNA Stratus, it could be a GEL3N or a 300b amp. All in good time because mountain and water is keeping me entertained big time right now.



Hey Matt, what's the story with the stratus? I thought it would be ready by June?


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey Matt, what's the story with the stratus? I thought it would be ready by June?



I cancelled it after I met Miss Sansui. 

So now I am a bachelor again in the hunt for another tube amp.


----------



## UntilThen

When you're on until then's journey, anything can happen.


----------



## UntilThen

I discovered the joy of near field listening. Now these speakers and my headphones are getting equal listening time. So I need a tube amp that will drive both speakers and headphones. I know both GEL3N and Glenn 300b amp are up to the task. For near field listening, I don't need it to be very loud. At 1 to 1.5m away from the speakers, you don't want to blast it.


----------



## UntilThen

@Sound Trooper  did you invest in a pair of speakers for your GEL3N? I think you have the only GEL3N with speakers output.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> I cancelled it after I met Miss Sansui.
> 
> So now I am a bachelor again in the hunt for another tube amp.



Woah.. vintage amps are that good? I've not seriously looked into them yet.



UntilThen said:


> @Sound Trooper  did you invest in a pair of speakers for your GEL3N? I think you have the only GEL3N with speakers output.



Not too sure if I have the only GEL3N with speaker outs? Maybe @2359glenn has built other GEL3N with speaker terminals. I initially wanted to run a pair of Omega SAM with the GEL3N but I got.distracted and I ended up upgrading my DAC and adding the Blu MkII. My plan is still to run high efficiency speakers out of the GEL3N so either the a pair of Omega SAM or Voxativ zeth.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I discovered the joy of near field listening. Now these speakers and my headphones are getting equal listening time. So I need a tube amp that will drive both speakers and headphones. I know both GEL3N and Glenn 300b amp are up to the task. For near field listening, I don't need it to be very loud. At 1 to 1.5m away from the speakers, you don't want to blast it.



Haha!   I can wait until you 'discover' vintage Harman Kardon amps!!!   The Tube amp forum will never be the same


----------



## 2359glenn (Apr 19, 2019)

Sound Trooper said:


> Woah.. vintage amps are that good? I've not seriously looked into them yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Not too sure if I have the only GEL3N with speaker outs? Maybe @2359glenn has built other GEL3N with speaker terminals. I initially wanted to run a pair of Omega SAM with the GEL3N but I got.distracted and I ended up upgrading my DAC and adding the Blu MkII. My plan is still to run high efficiency speakers out of the GEL3N so either the a pair of Omega SAM or Voxativ zeth.



Yes you have the only EL3N amp with Speaker outputs.
I listened to your amp for awhile 2 days on speakers sounds really good and goes surprisingly loud for 1.5 watts.
Was asked to lower it. Was really plenty of power for me most of the  time.
It is the sound of the EL3N amp that I love.
If I ever get time plan on replacing The 300B amps with EL3N amps.
Much prefer output tubes that cost $15 over tubes that cost $1500 and they sound as good or better to me.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Yes you have the only EL3N amp with Speaker outputs.
> I listened to your amp for awhile 2 days on speakers sounds really good and goes surprisingly loud for 1.5 watts.
> Was asked to lower it. Was really plenty of power for me most of the  time.
> It is the sound of the EL3N amp that I love.
> ...




Isn't that a wonderful thing...tubes that cheap can sound that good. The tubes have those weird side contact pins and provide little glow...but there is no denying the sound they produce.
I can put $600 worth of tubes in the OTL, and they do not sound better ..but that is a lot of cash for tubes....it can almost buy a 2nd basic OTL .

For planar headphones, it is no contest...does not matter if I use the hard to drive Ori or the easier to drive LCD-3

Thing is everybody loves a different sound...so to each their own....find what you like and enjoy your music


----------



## UntilThen (Apr 19, 2019)

I have the GEL3N in my tunnel vision.

Glenn, what speakers did you use when you were listening with the GEL3N. Make, power, efficiency and ohm please.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Haha!   I can wait until you 'discover' vintage Harman Kardon amps!!!   The Tube amp forum will never be the same


I think that Glenn mentioned that he worked for Harman Kardon.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> It will work, I do find Visseaux 6N7 sounded a little better than FDD20


There is no doubt in my mind, based on listening to both, that that certain 6N7GT (VSX, NU) tubes sound better than the FDD20.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Woah.. vintage amps are that good? I've not seriously looked into them yet.



The operative word is 'yet' ! 

Meanwhile I enlarged your amp to have a better look. It is beau-ti-ful.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> The operative word is 'yet' !
> 
> Meanwhile I enlarged your amp to have a better look. It is beau-ti-ful.




It sure is beautiful.....simple and elegant.

For the people that obsess over not having any noise in the back round...one tube mode provides this....always black as midnight.
Two tube mode is much more dynamic, more everything...slam impact & dynamics...much more authority...as with anything with tubes and transformers, can at times have some back round noise....it disappears with the music.

I know some people always want their amps to be dead silent. Probably best for them to check on some SS options....but they will be missing some wonderful tube goodness.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I have the GEL3N in my tunnel vision.
> 
> Glenn, what speakers did you use when you were listening with the GEL3N. Make, power, efficiency and ohm please.



Zu Omen
97 Db at  1 watt
https://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/omen-dirty-weekend-2


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> It sure is beautiful.....simple and elegant.
> 
> For the people that obsess over not having any noise in the back round...one tube mode provides this....always black as midnight.
> Two tube mode is much more dynamic, more everything...slam impact & dynamics...much more authority...as with anything with tubes and transformers, can at times have some back round noise....it disappears with the music.
> ...



True. Well said. I also don't mind a little tube noise, if the tube in question is worth it.

Although with GOTL and Lundahl transformer, you really don't have to try very hard to have silent operation.
More the norm than the exception.
1957 USAF-596, 1949 Valvo EL8, and 1987 Cetron 6336B. Incredible Realism and Total Silence.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> Zu Omen
> 97 Db at  1 watt
> https://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/omen-dirty-weekend-2



Zu powered by Glenn Studio is in my future. 

For now looking forward to the sound magic of GEL3N.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I discovered the joy of near field listening. Now these speakers and my headphones are getting equal listening time. So I need a tube amp that will drive both speakers and headphones.



Whats wrong with using one of your Sansui amps for nearfield? Been using my 881 to drive my Focal Aria 905s for years. Seven days a week,16 hours per day,and it still sounds fantastic. The fact that it is the best amp Ive yet to hear for my Sextetts is a bonus.


----------



## UntilThen (Apr 19, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Whats wrong with using one of your Sansui amps for nearfield? Been using my 881 to drive my Focal Aria 905s for years. Seven days a week,16 hours per day,and it still sounds fantastic. The fact that it is the best amp Ive yet to hear for my Sextetts is a bonus.



Nothing wrong with my Sansui(s) for nearfield but I wanted the best of both worlds. Tube amps and vintage amps going forward for me. I have been thinking about the GEL3N for a while now. All the more so because I first saw this Mazda EL3N while searching for a Mazda 6N7G. Posted it on the Euforia thread and egged H1 on to adapt it. The rest as they say is history.... I doubt we heard the true potential of EL3N there although it sounded good.

But it wasn't until Glenn in his wisdom proceed to create a custom amp based on EL3N. No one else has done this. As a proof of concept, he proceeded to use those gorgeous and expensive Lundahl transformers and it worked beautiful.... as attested by Joe, @Sound Trooper, Zach and other GEL3N owners.

So as soon as I sort out the many things happening in my life, not the least re-buying the Axis VoiceBox S again, I'll put myself in the GEL3N queue !


----------



## Sound Trooper (Apr 19, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Yes you have the only EL3N amp with Speaker outputs.
> I listened to your amp for awhile 2 days on speakers sounds really good and goes surprisingly loud for 1.5 watts.
> Was asked to lower it. Was really plenty of power for me most of the  time.
> It is the sound of the EL3N amp that I love.
> ...



Didn’t know mine was the first, I’ll not be surprised if it turns out to be the first of many.. 



whirlwind said:


> It sure is beautiful.....simple and elegant.
> 
> For the people that obsess over not having any noise in the back round...one tube mode provides this....always black as midnight.
> Two tube mode is much more dynamic, more everything...slam impact & dynamics...much more authority...as with anything with tubes and transformers, can at times have some back round noise....it disappears with the music.
> ...



Hey Joe, well said and I agree with everything you said. I run mine on two tube mode (aka turbo mode) all the time for the best results.

Another thing about the GEL3N is that rectifier tubes makes a difference as well. With the Sittard GZ34, the sound is fast and dynamic, while with the Sophia Princess 274b, it sounds warm and romantic. The WE422A combines the best of both tubes and that is why I have it in most of the time.



UntilThen said:


> Nothing wrong with my Sansui(s) for nearfield but I wanted the best of both worlds. Tube amps and vintage amps going forward for me. I have been thinking about the GEL3N for a while now. All the more so because I first saw this Mazda EL3N while searching for a Mazda 6N7G. Posted it on the Euforia thread and egged H1 on to adapt it. The rest as they say is history.... I doubt we heard the true potential of EL3N there although it sounded good.
> 
> But it wasn't until Glenn in his wisdom proceed to create a custom amp based on EL3N. No one else has done this. As a proof of concept, he proceeded to use those gorgeous and expensive Lundahl transformers and it worked beautiful.... as attested by Joe, @Sound Trooper, Zach and other GEL3N owners.
> 
> So as soon as I sort out the many things happening in my life, not the least re-buying the Axis VoiceBox S again, I'll put myself in the GEL3N queue !



I think we will see you with a GEL3N sooner rather than later. I am also running a pair of EL6 as power tubes and this potentially gives 6w (not sure about this).


----------



## UntilThen

I’m thinking additionally have preamp out capability to tag with any of my integrated amps for a wicked sound.

Obviously I’d love to hear hd800 and LCD-3f on the GEL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Another thing about the GEL3N is that rectifier tubes makes a difference as well. With the Sittard GZ34, the sound is fast and dynamic, while with the Sophia Princess 274b, it sounds warm and romantic. The WE422A combines the best of both tubes and that is why I have it in most of the time.



Thanks for the rectifiers impressions. It will be a first for me with regards to rectifiers and I sold the Sittard GZ34 to you. 

I bought a U52 and it could not be delivered despite arriving in Sydney. It had to be send back to UK!


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> I’m thinking additionally have preamp out capability to tag with any of my integrated amps for a wicked sound.
> 
> Obviously I’d love to hear hd800 and LCD-3f on the GEL3N.



Yes! Pre-outs. I forgot to add this in my GEL3N and it is one of my regrets.



UntilThen said:


> Thanks for the rectifiers impressions. It will be a first for me with regards to rectifiers and I sold the Sittard GZ34 to you.
> 
> I bought a U52 and it could not be delivered despite arriving in Sydney. It had to be send back to UK!



Yup, really appreciate you letting go of the Sittard GZ34. It turned out to be one of my favourite rectifiers!


----------



## UntilThen

You have to thank Gibosi. He was the one who told me about the Sittard GZ34


----------



## whirlwind

Listening to some Jeff Beck this morning with GEL3N and LCD-3...I have most of his albums, and this is one of my favorites.
 



If ever anybody did not need a vocalist, it is this guy...he does what others can't!


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Listening to some Jeff Beck this morning with GEL3N and LCD-3...I have most of his albums, and this is one of my favorites.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Great guitar player the old time sound.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Listening to some Jeff Beck this morning with GEL3N and LCD-3...I have most of his albums, and this is one of my favorites.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, Jeff Beck is amazing.   I saw him live, once, and he told the crowd that "he never had a hit on the radio" and 
that all of his success was thanks to those who bought his albums and spread the word amoung thier friends...

The show was really impressive.  

Have been hearing lately, that he is suffering from major hearing loss and tinnitus.


----------



## JazzVinyl

This is one of my favorite Jeff Back LP's:


----------



## whirlwind

Jeff Beck never cared about having hits on the radio or producing the top 40 stuff....

He just wanted to make music the way he wanted.  Now days, these guys still exist...but back in the day the record companies tried to tell you what kind of music to make.
they wanted something that would be played on the radio...life existed around singles.

In a way....I love a lot of the musicians now days....you can make the music you want to make and not be bothered with someone breathing down your neck for the next single.

There were a few artist that never caved in to this and Jeff Beck was definitely one of them.....I thank him for it as he has a very impressive library of music that he wanted to make.


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 20, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> This is one of my favorite Jeff Back LP's:




Yes, that is a great album....heck I own about 20 and they are all very good.

He is one of those gentlemen that when you hear the guitar, you know instantly that it is Jeff Beck.

If you don't own it....this is a must.




I think what makes him great also is his love for Hot Rods...if not making music....he is fine with his other hobby.

He has a second love, building his own Hot Rods.


----------



## UntilThen

Have watch this Live at Ronnie Scott's several times. Great performance. Tal Wilkenfield is a talented bass player from Australia.

Love this song especially with LCD-3f.


----------



## UntilThen

I'll play the blues for you.  Strap on the planar and enjoy..... and forget the blues and the neck ache ha.

Happy Easter everyone.


----------



## whirlwind

*Happy Easter   *


----------



## lukeap69

Happy Easter Joe and all!


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Easter


----------



## rosgr63

*HAPPY EASTER!!!!!
*
Don't eat too many Easter eggs...........


----------



## JazzVinyl (Apr 21, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Jeff Beck never cared about having hits on the radio or producing the top 40 stuff....
> 
> He just wanted to make music the way he wanted.  Now days, these guys still exist...but back in the day the record companies tried to tell you what kind of music to make.
> they wanted something that would be played on the radio...life existed around singles.
> ...



Hello Joe...

He tried for a Radio Hit a couple of times, perhaps spurred on by music biz executives.  Early 70's "Beck/Bogart/Appice" was formed to be a 'Super Group' but a radio 'hit' was not to be,

Then in 1985, he really went for 'hit land' with the album "Jeff Beck Flash" but it too, failed to produce a huge hit, but "People Get Ready" sung by Rod Stewart did reach #20...

Really happy with all the "non commercial oriented" music we got from him, over the years


----------



## UntilThen

You're too late! Easter is already over for me and I've eaten all the eggs.


----------



## rosgr63

Oh dear

I hope you had a great day!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Stavros, I had a great day, all the more so after listening to Conway Twitty and Sam Moore sing 'Rainy Night in Georgia'. This is the reason I am buying head-fi gear.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Joe...
> 
> He tried for a Radio Hit a couple of times, perhaps spurred on by music biz executives.  Early 70's "Beck/Bogart/Appice" was formed to be a 'Super Group' but a radio 'hit' was not to be,
> 
> ...




Yes, lots of wonderful music.
This is a great documentary of Jeff Beck, if you have not seen it.
It is very much worth the watch.
http://jeffbeck.com/review-still-run-jeff-beck-story/
Available on DVD/Blu-Ray


----------



## rosgr63

Great music, that’s what makes this hobby so good


----------



## Phantaminum

Happy Easter everyone!


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Yes, lots of wonderful music.
> This is a great documentary of Jeff Beck, if you have not seen it.
> It is very much worth the watch.
> http://jeffbeck.com/review-still-run-jeff-beck-story/
> Available on DVD/Blu-Ray



Thanks Joe...didn't know.  Will look for it!

Appreciate!!

Jeff Beck, Savoy Brown, Manfred Mann, Hot Tuna, Pink Floyd, Moody Blues, Rare Earth - have all been on the turntable today.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Speaking of the turntable...an album I always get a big kick out of:


----------



## mordy

If you don't have preamp out jacks in the Glenn EL3N amp, can you use the headphone jack?


----------



## JazzVinyl

This looks interesting too...when I am done spinning vinyl, will look this up on that inner net thingy:

https://www.billygibbons.com/


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> If you don't have preamp out jacks in the Glenn EL3N amp, can you use the headphone jack?



Should be able to...with any headphone amp...


----------



## JazzVinyl

@whirlwind Joe - are  you aware of this list:

https://www.rootsmusicreport.com/charts/view/album/sub_genre/blues-rock/weekly


----------



## heliosphann

Happy GoT Sunday!!!


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> Happy GoT Sunday!!!



That episode got me in the feels on more than one occasion.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> That episode got me in the feels on more than one occasion.



So many feels. They had to get it from us this week, because next ep: 



Spoiler



The body count will hit the fan!


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> So many feels. They had to get it from us this week, because next ep:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Im gutted that any of the main characters will die,let alone many of them. 

And,hey,there's Ghost!


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Im gutted that any of the main characters will die,let alone many of them.
> 
> And,hey,there's Ghost!



No love for Ghost. He wasn't even in season 7 and they throw him in the background!!!


----------



## Monsterzero (Apr 21, 2019)

So,I bought @UntilThen pair of GEC 6AS7G,which arrived last night. By far the most Ive ever spent on tubes.

I found out theres such a thing as too much GEC. With the U52 and B36, the sound was just too smooth for me and the Verite. Tonight im using the EL8s with the U52 and it has a more dynamic,lively sound....and a very wide staging.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> No love for Ghost. He wasn't even in season 7 and they throw him in the background!!!



Yeah im guessing that was their way of letting us know he's been around the whole time...Oh and he will die soon. 

We should prolly continue this conversation here.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Monsterzero said:


> So,I bought @UntilThen pair of GEC 6AS7G,which arrived last night. By far the most Ive ever spent on tubes.
> 
> I found out theres such a thing as too much GEC. With the U52 and B36, the sound was just too smooth for me and the Verite. Tonight im using the EL8s with the U52 and it has a more dynamic,lively sound....and a very wide staging.



Do the GEC 6AS7G have a warm tilt? I like to balance warm output with a more transparent driver.. have fun with the rolling & matching  Looking forward to hearing what combo you like with the 6AS7Gs & Verite.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> So,I bought @UntilThen pair of GEC 6AS7G,which arrived last night. By far the most Ive ever spent on tubes.
> 
> I found out theres such a thing as too much GEC. With the U52 and B36, the sound was just too smooth for me and the Verite. Tonight im using the EL8s with the U52 and it has a more dynamic,lively sound....and a very wide staging.



Enjoy !


----------



## Monsterzero

UsoppNoKami said:


> Do the GEC 6AS7G have a warm tilt? I like to balance warm output with a more transparent driver.. have fun with the rolling & matching  Looking forward to hearing what combo you like with the 6AS7Gs & Verite.



I will need more time with them before I can say warm/bright/neutral as thus far im doing all my listening via the Verite,which is pretty damn warm. I will say its not as warm as an RCA power tube,but not as bright as the 5998s,if that helps.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> So,I bought @UntilThen pair of GEC 6AS7G,which arrived last night. By far the most Ive ever spent on tubes.
> 
> I found out theres such a thing as too much GEC. With the U52 and B36, the sound was just too smooth for me and the Verite. Tonight im using the EL8s with the U52 and it has a more dynamic,lively sound....and a very wide staging.



This has been my experience as well.  GEC in all positions -- driver, output tube and rectifier -- is just too much of a good thing. And in general, I avoid running tubes from the same manufacturer in all three positions, whether RCA, Tung-Sol, Mullard or what have you. And in fact, I believe that I get the best sound when all three positions are filled with tubes from different manufacturers. For example, WIRAG EL3N, Sittard GZ34 and Tung-Sol 6BX7 has become one of my favorite rolls. But of course, YMMV.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Monsterzero said:


> I will need more time with them before I can say warm/bright/neutral as thus far im doing all my listening via the Verite,which is pretty damn warm. I will say its not as warm as an RCA power tube,but not as bright as the 5998s,if that helps.



I run the Verite pads on my cans as I find the universe pads too warm for my gear pairing... Current best match for me is the '75 Reflektors in the Cavali LP with the Verite on Verite pads. Sound reminds me of a smoother, organic Utopia. Can't wait to start rolling tubes on the GOTL once my amp is done.


----------



## Monsterzero

UsoppNoKami said:


> I run the Verite pads on my cans as I find the universe pads too warm for my gear pairing...



Thats one of the great things about the Verite,swapping the pads essentially gives you two headphones for the price of one. I am addicted to the Universe pads as im all about that holographic imaging.

someone has mentioned a third pad thats sorta available that sounds like a cross between the Universe and Verite pads. Trying to get a set from ZMF.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> This looks interesting too...when I am done spinning vinyl, will look this up on that inner net thingy:
> 
> https://www.billygibbons.com/
> 
> ...


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> True. Well said. I also don't mind a little tube noise, if the tube in question is worth it.
> 
> Although with GOTL and Lundahl transformer, you really don't have to try very hard to have silent operation.
> More the norm than the exception.
> 1957 USAF-596, 1949 Valvo EL8, and 1987 Cetron 6336B. Incredible Realism and Total Silence.


Hi rnros,
What kind of tube is a USAF-596?


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> What kind of tube is a USAF-596?



I believe its a funky looking rectifier that requires an adapter to use. Have them on an eBay search for awhile now,not a single one has come up,unless the seller is using a different name for them.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi rnros,
> What kind of tube is a USAF-596?



Rectifier made by United Electronics for USAF. Check the rectifier review thread for sound characteristics.
Scarce, typically go for $200+ currently. Two plate cap adapter required.


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> I believe its a funky looking rectifier that requires an adapter to use. Have them on an eBay search for awhile now,not a single one has come up,unless the seller is using a different name for them.



That's the right name for them, they are scarce. Unless you get lucky. 
Woo Audio has been offering them for awhile now, and yes, their tube offerings are expensive.
However for the 596 they are still asking $350 with their $100 custom Teflon adapter included.
Not so bad considering you will likely pay $200 plus unless you get very lucky.
Especially if you like the Woo adapter.

Only two sellers I know who have some in stock are Woo and a seller in China.
If my exchange rate calculation is correct the Chinese seller is asking much more than Woo.


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> Rectifier made by United Electronics for USAF. Check the rectifier review thread for sound characteristics.
> Scarce, typically go for $200+ currently. Two plate cap adapter required.





rnros said:


> Rectifier made by United Electronics for USAF. Check the rectifier review thread for sound characteristics.
> Scarce, typically go for $200+ currently. Two plate cap adapter required.




I believe Glenn use to get these tubes for like $20.

Here is the tube

 

Here is the tube in amp with adapter


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I believe its a funky looking rectifier that requires an adapter to use. Have them on an eBay search for awhile now,not a single one has come up,unless the seller is using a different name for them.





rnros said:


> Rectifier made by United Electronics for USAF. Check the rectifier review thread for sound characteristics.
> Scarce, typically go for $200+ currently. Two plate cap adapter required.


Thanks - here is how it looks like:








Luckily for me, you cannot tempt me with this tube because I cannot use it - my amp has a HEXFRED rectifier.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

JUST posted my ZMF Comparison and I touch on some tube depth of the GOTL if y'all would like some reading material! GOTL / ZMF comparison


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I believe Glenn use to get these tubes for like $20.
> Here is the tube
> Here is the tube in amp with adapter



Scary lookin' tube, Joe


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I believe its a funky looking rectifier that requires an adapter to use. Have them on an eBay search for awhile now,not a single one has come up,unless the seller is using a different name for them.



Don't bother paying big bucks for this tube. It is just a 5U4GB with the plate leads brought out the top so it can handle 7000 volts. That would arc over in the socket.
They are built to exacting military standards. I came up with this tube for someone who had a amp that had two 5U4 rectifiers in series and these tubes 5U4 are not made to be run
with the filaments in series. So one tube would worm up before the other and burn out. The filament in the 596s are all the same and worm up the same and not blow out.
Bur probably sounds the same as a 5U4GB a tube everyone hates because it don't look cool. But a good GE or Sylvania 5U4GB sounds pretty good.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Scary lookin' tube, Joe





JazzVinyl said:


> Scary lookin' tube, Joe


hI jv,
This tube looks scary to me:



We could run four of these  6C33C triodes as output tubes in the GOTL (13.2A) with a 0.6A driver with fan cooling of the amp. But as I said, scary....


----------



## Monsterzero

Have the HiFiMan Jade ll here on loan. Sounds pretty good. Went to turn it up only to realize that it was already maxed. 
Glenn needs to make an e-stat amp. I love the Blue Hawaii SE,but not for that kinda $$$.
Hint,hint.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Don't bother paying big bucks for this tube. It is just a 5U4GB with the plate leads brought out the top so it can handle 7000 volts. That would arc over in the socket.
> They are built to exacting military standards. I came up with this tube for someone who had a amp that had two 5U4 rectifiers in series and these tubes 5U4 are not made to be run
> with the filaments in series. So one tube would worm up before the other and burn out. The filament in the 596s are all the same and worm up the same and not blow out.
> Bur probably sounds the same as a 5U4GB a tube everyone hates because it don't look cool. But a good GE or Sylvania 5U4GB sounds pretty good.



The 5U4GB can be bought for about $10...Stan has NOS ones for $15
I have never tried one, but if it sounds the same as the 596 then I will get one or two.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello @whirlwind Joe:

As a blues aficionado, may I also suggest a Savoy Brown album to you: "Witchy Feeling".

I am an old 'dyed in the wool' Savoy Brown fan, and have enjoyed seeing them many times since the 1970's. 

Savoy Brown has toured the West many times in the past few years, I never miss them, if they are within 90 minute drive.

One such show, Kim Simmonds (the main man/guitar player) told a funny story.  Said he was semi-retired from music for a couple of decades in the 90's and 00's...but kept his chops up at home, and enjoyed playing golf in upstate New York (where he lives).

Said for fun, he would look in the local Craigslist and find a blues band that was forming and advertising that they were auditioning for a lead guitar player.

Said he would show up for the audition (young kids would have no idea who he was) and play with the band.  Said it never failed that the kids would look at him like "yeah right" but after a couple of hours...they would say: "Okay...that's it...WHO ARE YOU?".

That's when he will tell them he toured the world many times and had some monster hits with a 70's blues band called "Savoy Brown" 


Love it!


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 23, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello @whirlwind Joe:
> 
> As a blues aficionado, may I also suggest a Savoy Brown album to you: "Witchy Feeling".
> 
> ...




Yes sir, I like Savoy Brown...a quick search in my albums show the following albums

 A Step Further
Blue Matter
Boogie Brothers
Getting To The Point
Hellbound Train
Jack The toad
Lion's Share
Looking In
Raw Sienna
Shake Down
Street Corner Talking
Voodoo Moon
Witchy Feeling
Going To The Delta
The Devil To Pay
Still Live After 50 Years

Seems like  alot of albums...but I only own about 1/3 !

Kim Simmonds is a wonderful player.

Looks like the oldest album I have is from 1967-  Shake Down


I must admit, I have not listen to them in awhile.....I will work Witchy Feeling in my rotation.


----------



## 2359glenn

Wow!!!! Zach shipped me a Verite and a Aeolus today can't wait to get them.
Really want to here the Verite
Don't know much about the Aeolus have to go to the thread and research these a bit.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Don't know much about the Aeolus have to go to the thread and research these a bit



Warm,punchy,fun...Think HD650,but better.

Any thoughts on creating an e-stat amp,or is that not possible?


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 24, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Wow!!!! Zach shipped me a Verite and a Aeolus today can't wait to get them.
> Really want to here the Verite
> Don't know much about the Aeolus have to go to the thread and research these a bit.




You will soon be "living the life"


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Warm,punchy,fun...Think HD650,but better.
> 
> Any thoughts on creating an e-stat amp,or is that not possible?



I was thinking about that awhile ago but no time to do much design work with all the amps I have to build.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> I was thinking about that awhile ago but no time to do much design work with all the amps I have to build.



Well,I think the market is rife. Pretty much every serious e-stat system requires a BHSE to sound great. Based upon price-to-performance of your OTLs,I would certainly be interested down the line in having you build me one,as I cant/wont spend 6K on a BHSE.


----------



## mordy (Apr 23, 2019)

Here is a BHSP (Blue Hawaii Satin Purple):





This one is $6879.00 - can be yours in 4 weeks.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey guys Levi here from the Euforia thread. Anyone here have an opinion on the Furman Reference IT 15i? It's a power conditioner / regenerator and is Furman's top model listed as both studio and audiophile grade. I got it from eBay on a 1/2 off deal ($2600 value), seller listed it as used good working condition but never elaborated my further queries about the exact 'miles' on it. 

Also I'm curious if anyone on the Glenn thread has a preference if power conditioners / regenerators make any audible improvement on the GOTL, and if so is there any consensus on which one?

Over on the sound science forums people rail against the mere notion of power conditioning to be able to scientifically make any audible difference, but all users of the Euforia amp who have tried one have unanimously reported increase of performance in all main aspects.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Well,I think the market is rife. Pretty much every serious e-stat system requires a BHSE to sound great. Based upon price-to-performance of your OTLs,I would certainly be interested down the line in having you build me one,as I cant/wont spend 6K on a BHSE.




Maybe check on a used BHSE probably save over $1000 or maybe a  *KGSSHV Carbon*


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> Wow!!!! Zach shipped me a Verite and a Aeolus today can't wait to get them.
> Really want to here the Verite
> Don't know much about the Aeolus have to go to the thread and research these a bit.



You’re in for an treat! Give the Verite at least 150 hours before making your mind up on it. It takes that long for the drivers to loosen up but when it does you’ll be all smiles.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Give the Verite at least 150 hours before making your mind up on it.



Also make sure to try both pad options. I feel the Universe pads offer the biggest contrast in sound to the Auteur.


----------



## Monsterzero

Im liking this roll for the Verite. Not too warm. Not too bright. Im going to experiment with other drivers later on,when my time with the Jade ll is up.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Im liking this roll for the Verite. Not too warm. Not too bright. Im going to experiment with other drivers later on,when my time with the Jade ll is up.



Interesting!

How does it pair up with the an Electrostatic headphone? I didn’t think the GOTL had enough voltage to power those puppies but this definitely proves me wrong.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Interesting!
> 
> How does it pair up with the an Electrostatic headphone? I didn’t think the GOTL had enough voltage to power those puppies but this definitely proves me wrong.



No,no,no...the GOTL cant power an e-stat. The Jade ll came with the matching HifiMan e-stat amp,and thats what im using to drive the Jade headphone.

What I meant was that the next couple weeks I wont be listening to the GOTL as I have to spend time with the Jade and do a proper evaluation,write and record reviews.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> No,no,no...the GOTL cant power an e-stat. The Jade ll came with the matching HifiMan e-stat amp,and thats what im using to drive the Jade headphone.
> 
> What I meant was that the next couple weeks I wont be listening to the GOTL as I have to spend time with the Jade and do a proper evaluation,write and record reviews.



Ah!

I assumed that was the case as the picture looks like the cable going into the GOTL is coming from the Jade II. Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Im liking this roll for the Verite. Not too warm. Not too bright. Im going to experiment with other drivers later on,when my time with the Jade ll is up.



I am going to start with GEC 6AS7s and a pair of GEC L63 drivers. I feel this combo is a little bright with the Auteur but might be right with the Verite.
If to bright I will switch the L63s to EL3Ns.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> I am going to start with GEC 6AS7s and a pair of GEC L63 drivers. I feel this combo is a little bright with the Auteur but might be right with the Verite.
> If to bright I will switch the L63s to EL3Ns.



I also like the RCA power tubes with the Verite. The warmer the roll it seems the deeper the staging gets. The TS 6SN7 RP is crazy good with the Verite,but coupled with the RCA power tubes its too warm for me.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Im liking this roll for the Verite. Not too warm. Not too bright. Im going to experiment with other drivers later on,when my time with the Jade ll is up.




Looks like you amp is missing some screws!


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> I assumed that was the case as the picture looks like the cable going into the GOTL is coming from the Jade II.



Yeah my desktop is very cluttered atm. The Jade ll amp isnt small and I kinda had to cram everything together to make it all fit.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> Looks like you amp is missing some screws!



The way it came. IDK. 
I'd never try and take it apart.


----------



## heliosphann

What are you using @Monsterzero , a flip phone camera???


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> What are you using @Monsterzero , a flip phone camera???



No my flip phone broke. I used a potato.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> No my flip phone broke. I used a potato.



The potato filter is my favorite!


----------



## Phantaminum

heliosphann said:


> The potato filter is my favorite!



Such a spud...


----------



## mordy (Apr 24, 2019)

Came across a great classic jazz recording from an unlikely place - Tokyo, Japan. The band has an unusual name as well - P Time Selection. It is clarinet-piano duet by two female musicians - telepathic.
The tune is called The Broken Windmill. It was not known to me, but probably originally recorded by Sidney Bechet.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Came across a great classic jazz recording from an unlikely place - Tokyo, Japan. The band has an unusual name as well - P Time Selection. It is clarinet-piano duet by two female musicians - telepathic.
> The tune is called The Broken Windmill. It was not known to me, but probably originally recorded by Sidney Bechet.



They are a talented pair, Mordy!!

I consider that style to be“Ragtime” rather than “Jazz”?


----------



## rnros

JazzVinyl said:


> They are a talented pair, Mordy!!
> 
> I consider that style to be“Ragtime” rather than “Jazz”?



Or maybe Jazz that shows more of it's Ragtime roots rather than it's Blues roots. 
Definitely talented musicians!


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> Im liking this roll for the Verite. Not too warm. Not too bright. Im going to experiment with other drivers later on,when my time with the Jade ll is up.



How do the GEC 6AS7s sound with Verite vs the 5998s?


----------



## Monsterzero

rnros said:


> How do the GEC 6AS7s sound with Verite vs the 5998s?



Good question. I no longer have the 5998s here with me. They were loaned to me by a very generous member here in the thread,who will remain un-named,so he doesnt get flooded with requests to do the same for others. If he wants to claim responsibility thats up to him.

Anyways,I didnt have both the 5998s and GEC 6AS7s at the same time,nor was my GEC U52 working when I had the 5998s here either.

All that being said, I _really _liked the 5998s with the Verite. I was able to brighten the tone of the Verite with the 5998s and give me great bass and ultra wide staging. They matched up well with the Tung Sol RP,which has crazy deep staging on the Verite. The coolness of the 5998s offset to a degree the warmth of the TS driver,so again I really liked the pairing. I used the GZ34 as a rectifier.

My next major tube purchase will def be a pair of 5998s,but that wont be for a few months.


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> Good question. I no longer have the 5998s here with me. They were loaned to me by a very generous member here in the thread,who will remain un-named,so he doesnt get flooded with requests to do the same for others. If he wants to claim responsibility thats up to him.
> 
> Anyways,I didnt have both the 5998s and GEC 6AS7s at the same time,nor was my GEC U52 working when I had the 5998s here either.
> 
> ...



Thanks, good information. Agree on the 5998s, really fine power tube on the GOTL.


----------



## 2359glenn

Just received my silk wood Verite and Aeolus about a hour ago.
My god the Verite sound fabulous definitely the best headphone I have.
Can't believe they will get better with burn in.
Haven't tried the Aeolous yet cant take these things off my head have all weekend.to play.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Just received my silk wood Verite and Aeolus about a hour ago.
> My god the Verite sound fabulous definitely the best headphone I have.
> Can't believe they will get better with burn in.



Yep,theyre good. You will notice the staging and depth improve over time.



2359glenn said:


> Haven't tried the Aeolous yet cant take these things off my head have all weekend.to play.



Sorry to say,you most likely wont ever use them. Verite smokes em IMO.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

2359glenn said:


> Just received my silk wood Verite and Aeolus about a hour ago.
> My god the Verite sound fabulous definitely the best headphone I have.
> Can't believe they will get better with burn in.
> Haven't tried the Aeolous yet cant take these things off my head have all weekend.to play.



My Verite took about 300 hours to finish burning in, not taking it off your head sounds about right haha. Have fun Glenn!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Too bad the Verite’s are so expensive.  I’m sure they sound great, but that is a heap of money to shell out...


----------



## Monsterzero

Interesting.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/great-british-valve-project.905473/


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Interesting.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/great-british-valve-project.905473/


You can also follow Brimar Bob on Twitter. My favorite type of audio is modern equipment with vintage valves. I never thought it might possibly be modern equipment with modern valves. Let's see how this project plays out. I'll take 8 Mullard 12AX7 1954's with welded plates please Bob!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Excuse my intrusion, as I am not a GOTL owner as of this moment  but the good patrons of this thread are the most tube-knowledgeable I have come across on Head-Fi.  If you would be so kind, I would just like to know what is considered fair market price for a single GEC 6080 or GEC 6AS7G/A1834 these days, assuming I come across one.  My OTL amplifier takes a single 6AS7G type in the output position, in which I currently use either a 421A or Tung Sol 7802.  Much appreciated!


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> single GEC 6080 or GEC 6AS7G/A1834 these days, assuming I come across one.



I recently purchased a nearly NOS pair of GEC 6AS7G from another GOTL Owner for $500.00,with original boxes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> I recently purchased a nearly NOS pair of GEC 6AS7G from another GOTL Owner for $500.00,with original boxes.



Fantastic, thank you!  That is some serious glass you have there.  I would be willing to pay half that for a single, similar price to a NOS Western Electric 421A after all.

However, Ebay sellers seem to have other plans...these prices are more similar to what I come across: https://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-A183...694347?hash=item2f2fa34dcb:g:55UAAOSwlh1cwuJB

But I am patient, I'll let the tubes come to me 

An aside, I really enjoyed your Vérité review, think I will be targeting a 2020 purchase myself.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> However, Ebay sellers seem to have other plans...these prices are more similar to what I come across:



Yep,I have my eyes out for some WE tubes as well,but the prices are silly. I can wait.



L0rdGwyn said:


> An aside, I really enjoyed your Vérité review, think I will be targeting a 2020 purchase myself.



Thank you. Its a fantastic headphone.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Excuse my intrusion, as I am not a GOTL owner as of this moment  but the good patrons of this thread are the most tube-knowledgeable I have come across on Head-Fi.  If you would be so kind, I would just like to know what is considered fair market price for a single GEC 6080 or GEC 6AS7G/A1834 these days, assuming I come across one.  My OTL amplifier takes a single 6AS7G type in the output position, in which I currently use either a 421A or Tung Sol 7802.  Much appreciated!


Hi LG,
To get a good idea of the current market value, type in what you are looking for on eBay, then when the item comes up, scroll down on the left side towards the end and click on Sold Items.
You will now see in green the dollar amounts this item sold for in the last two months. Bear in mind that a single tube fetches less than a pair since most people need two tubes.
Here is the GEC 6AS7 activity:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=GEC+6AS7&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
You will see that the range is between $120 -$335 for a single (most sold in sets of two) depending on condition etc. (Shipping calculated into these prices)
Re the GEC 6080 there were some bargains to be found recently, the range being $15-$108 for a single, but sold in pairs or quads.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...&_odkw=GEC+6AS7&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1
You may also be able to find better prices buy looking for the same tubes under other designations or rebranded labels - there are many. I have seen the GEC A1834(6AS7) selling for $50 (Ultron brand, but watch out for Russian fakes - you have to become familiar with the internal construction to know if it is a Svetlana or GEC) and unbranded GEC  CV2984(6080) for $13 a piece.
PP - patience pays.......


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> To get a good idea of the current market value, type in what you are looking for on eBay, then when the item comes up, scroll down on the left side towards the end and click on Sold Items.
> You will now see in green the dollar amounts this item sold for in the last two months. Bear in mind that a single tube fetches less than a pair since most people need two tubes.
> Here is the GEC 6AS7 activity:
> ...



Wow, mordy, how incredibly useful!  Not sure how I've gone this long without being aware of that as a feature, thanks very much.  I have saved Ebay searches for every variation of the GEC 6AS7G and 6080 I know of (A1834, CV2523, CV2984) and brand (Osram, MWT), but I wasn't aware of Ultron, I will look into it.

Finding a single might be challenging, but I'm willing to wait, PP all the way  thanks for the tips.


----------



## mordy

Another useful search tool I recently discovered is Google Images. Just go to Google Images and type in what you are looking for - as an example A1834 Vacuum tube.
Look at the pictures and skip the stuff you don't want - found a GEC 6AS7 tube with the Marconi name - another name to look for.
When you find a picture you are interested in, click on visit. Here is a gorgeous curved base from Hammersmith factory from Oct 1960:






I assume that the Gecovalve box isn't original for this tube, but a different GEC name again....




And on and on - sometimes you can find a selling ad that wasn't listed on the regular forums and score a deal.... 
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...30j0i30j0i24.aV2bdlDLg-4#imgrc=moPlxMZk1FNscM:
Have fun!


----------



## mordy

Just watch out for them fakes - Svetlana or RCA:


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Another useful search tool I recently discovered is Google Images. Just go to Google Images and type in what you are looking for - as an example A1834 Vacuum tube.
> Look at the pictures and skip the stuff you don't want - found a GEC 6AS7 tube with the Marconi name - another name to look for.
> When you find a picture you are interested in, click on visit. Here is a gorgeous curved base from Hammersmith factory from Oct 1960:
> 
> ...



That is one good looking tube, it can't be denied.

Thanks again, mordy, I will heed your advice, watch out for fakes and have a good time doing it.

The hunt continues...


----------



## whirlwind

For what it is worth


L0rdGwyn said:


> Excuse my intrusion, as I am not a GOTL owner as of this moment  but the good patrons of this thread are the most tube-knowledgeable I have come across on Head-Fi.  If you would be so kind, I would just like to know what is considered fair market price for a single GEC 6080 or GEC 6AS7G/A1834 these days, assuming I come across one.  My OTL amplifier takes a single 6AS7G type in the output position, in which I currently use either a 421A or Tung Sol 7802.  Much appreciated!




The GEC 6080 can be gotten cheaper than the GEC 6AS7G.
The GEC 6AS7G sounds better to my ears.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Apr 30, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> For what it is worth
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, Joe.  I have read the same elsewhere, that they are similar in quality but the 6AS7G edges the 6080 in performance.  I think I will wait for the 6AS7G, although the wait may not be long, a little birdie might have found one for me.


----------



## Zachik

How do the RCA 6AS7G compare to the GEC ones?
MUCH cheaper and easier to find...


----------



## Monsterzero

Anyone have experience with this tube,and if so what are your thoughts on sound? Im assuming these will work in the GOTL,yes?


----------



## mordy (Apr 30, 2019)

What is the tube designation? 7643 means that they were made in the 43rd week of 1976.
BTW, it looks like the pins need a little bit of cleaning - scrape them gently with a dull blade.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> What is the tube designation? 7643 means that they were made in the 43rd week of 1976.
> BTW, it looks like the pins need a little bit of cleaning - scrape them gently with a dull blade.



From sellers ad:

"This gorgeous pair of 5692s are 1970s relabel era (46th month of 1974) examples of _probably_ late 1950s / early 1960s Sylvania 6SN7GTBs with black plates, ring getters and chrome tops. Test strong and balanced. Appear to be unused"


----------



## gibosi

Given that these do not have the rugged construction typical of 5692, that is, an extra top mica and 5 additional freestanding support posts, I suspect that they are simply RCA 6SN7GTB.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-6sn7-identification-guide.209782/


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> How do the RCA 6AS7G compare to the GEC ones?
> MUCH cheaper and easier to find...


The RCA  6AS7G are very warm sounding tubes. As always, the results depend very much on the synergy with other tubes and in which amp the tubes are used.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> From sellers ad:
> 
> "This gorgeous pair of 5692s are 1970s relabel era (46th month of 1974) examples of _probably_ late 1950s / early 1960s Sylvania 6SN7GTBs with black plates, ring getters and chrome tops. Test strong and balanced. Appear to be unused"


As gibosi says, no reason to think that these were relabled Sylvania tubes - just plain RCA 6SN7 tubes. I read somewhere that a commercial seller had a large quantity of the RCA 5692 with a red base and hyped them up, including jacking up the price.
This pair is only $239.00:




https://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-RCA-JA...FUAAOSw78xcjYQD:sc:USPSFirstClass!10952!US!-1


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Given that these do not have the rugged construction typical of 5692, that is, an extra top mica and 5 additional freestanding support posts, I suspect that they are simply RCA 6SN7GTB.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-6sn7-identification-guide.209782/





mordy said:


> As gibosi says, no reason to think that these were relabled Sylvania tubes - just plain RCA 6SN7 tubes. I read somewhere that a commercial seller had a large quantity of the RCA 5692 with a red base and hyped them up, including jacking up the price.
> This pair is only $239.00:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-RCA-JA...FUAAOSw78xcjYQD:sc:USPSFirstClass!10952!US!-1



Thanks for the info guys. this is why I always ask before buying tubes.
Seller is only asking 35.00 shipped for the pair,but I will pass.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> The RCA  6AS7G are very warm sounding tubes. As always, the results depend very much on the synergy with other tubes and in which amp the tubes are used.


Going to be used on GOTL. Warm sound is my personal preference, so being warm is a good thing 
Will be used with HD800, Verite and Atticus (or any subset of these).


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Going to be used on GOTL. Warm sound is my personal preference, so being warm is a good thing
> Will be used with HD800, Verite and Atticus (or any subset of these).



I would imagine they would sound good with the HD800,not so much with Atticus and Verite. I have the RCA 6AS7G and it is warmth overload to my ears on the ZMF headphones.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Apr 30, 2019)

Zachik said:


> How do the RCA 6AS7G compare to the GEC ones?
> MUCH cheaper and easier to find...



The GEC 6AS7G are considered the peak, the "Holy Grail" of 6AS7G's.  The RCA's are the most common, so they are priced accordingly.


Zachik said:


> Going to be used on GOTL. Warm sound is my personal preference, so being warm is a good thing
> Will be used with HD800, Verite and Atticus (or any subset of these).



If you can find a pair, I would keep an eye out for the Tung Sol 6AS7G.  The TS variant is quite good to my ears (I must clarify, on my non "G" OTL amp, I am an imposter ).  Have not compared to the RCA myself, but have read elsewhere they are a step-up from the RCA's (I think it was a very old @Skylab post I had read).

Edit: Okay, I'll leave the rest to the "G" OTL experts, don't want to intrude, thanks for answering my questions!


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks for the info guys. this is why I always ask before buying tubes.
> Seller is only asking 35.00 shipped for the pair,but I will pass.


Hi M0,
Here is an excellent sounding RCA 6SN7GTB IMHO - this tube has red lettering and a horizontal heater wire above the top mica:





https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Pair-o...993534&hash=item56c284be90:g:UUgAAOSwQ7lcj6Td
You could pick them up for less than the $40 for this pair, but it is hard to find listings that show that heater wire and most RCA 6SN7GTB don't have this construction.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> I would imagine they would sound good with the HD800,not so much with Atticus and Verite. I have the RCA 6AS7G and it is warmth overload to my ears on the ZMF headphones.


What do YOU like with ZMF cans?  6080 tubes? 6AS7s that are not RCAs (like the TS mentioned above by @L0rdGwyn ? something else?


----------



## Skylab

L0rdGwyn said:


> The GEC 6AS7G are considered the peak, the "Holy Grail" of 6AS7G's.  The RCA's are the most common, so they are priced accordingly.
> 
> 
> If you can find a pair, I would keep an eye out for the Tung Sol 6AS7G.  The TS variant is quite good to my ears (I must clarify, on my non "G" OTL amp, I am an imposter ).  Have not compared to the RCA myself, but have read elsewhere they are a step-up from the RCA's (I think it was a very old @Skylab post I had read).
> ...



Yes I preferred the Tung-Sol 6AS7G over the RCA and by a good margin, although the RCA is still a very nice tube.


----------



## mordy

Skylab said:


> Yes I preferred the Tung-Sol 6AS7G over the RCA and by a good margin, although the RCA is still a very nice tube.


Hi Skylab,
Does the Chatham 6AS7G sound the same as the Tung Sol 6AS7G?


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> What do YOU like with ZMF cans?  6080 tubes? 6AS7s that are not RCAs (like the TS mentioned above by @L0rdGwyn ? something else?



I think its important to note what pads one prefers on the Verite. I strictly use the Universe pads,so these comments are based upon those.
RCA 6080+TS 6SN7GT RP + GZ32 give the deepest 3D imaging ive yet to hear on the Verite,but that combo is silly warm. Ive noted before that the brighter the tube roll with the Verite,the 3D imaging lessens,so the Verite IMO is a fickle headphone to try and find the right combo of holographic imaging and give it some brightness at the same time.

I really enjoyed the 5998s with the Verite,and is cool enough sounding so that one can roll in warm drivers and rectifiers. It will sound warm,but not as much as the RCAs.

If you dont care about the 3D imaging then the possibilities are limitless. 6336+GZ34+EL8s give the Verite a lot of high end shimmer. Its hard to make the GOTL or Verite sound bad,but if youre after a specific sound,its a bit of trial and error.


----------



## Skylab

mordy said:


> Hi Skylab,
> Does the Chatham 6AS7G sound the same as the Tung Sol 6AS7G?



Allowing for the normal sample to sample variation, yes I always thought so, and I had multiple pairs of both. The Chatham tubes were excellent and of course Tung-Sol bought Chatham for that reason.


----------



## rosgr63

Skylab said:


> Yes I preferred the Tung-Sol 6AS7G over the RCA and by a good margin, although the RCA is still a very nice tube.



Nice to hear from you Rob.
Early production RCA black plates are one of my favourite 6AS7G.
They are not as good as the MOV 6AS7G but they are a great tubes.


----------



## mordy

Skylab said:


> Allowing for the normal sample to sample variation, yes I always thought so, and I had multiple pairs of both. The Chatham tubes were excellent and of course Tung-Sol bought Chatham for that reason.


Thanks- I have a pair of the Chathams but only one Tung Sol. For some reason I could not find a synergistic combination with neither the Chatham 6AS7G nor the Chatham 6080 that I liked.


----------



## Skylab

rosgr63 said:


> Nice to hear from you Rob.
> Early production RCA black plates are one of my favourite 6AS7G.
> They are not as good as the MOV 6AS7G but they are a great tubes.



Hi Stavros! I hope you are well. Yes indeed, the black-plate RCA is a very fine tube.


----------



## rosgr63 (Apr 30, 2019)

All is fine Rob
I hope all is well with you too

Still looking for cure for my addiction but no hope tubes are magical


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Thanks- I have a pair of the Chathams but only one Tung Sol. For some reason I could not find a synergistic combination with neither the Chatham 6AS7G nor the Chatham 6080 that I liked.



The tube is quite mid-centric, slight roll off at the top and warm but neither to the extent as the RCAs. You need an almost linear tube to pair it with but also something like a CBS Hytron or even a Raytheon if you want more energy. I did enjoy these with the Siemens c3g.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> How do the RCA 6AS7G compare to the GEC ones?
> MUCH cheaper and easier to find...



The RCA 6AS7G is a good sounding tube, all of the 6AS7G tubes that I have tried sound good.
To be fair, it does not sound as good as the GEC 6AS7G tube, few if any do.



 

The first tube on the left is a Chatham 6AS7G, if you can find them with the copper rods, like this one...I believe they are the best of the Chatham 6AS7G tubes. I like it a tad better than the RCA  6AS7G

The middle tube is a RCA 6AS7G tube, as already mentioned it is good, warm sounding with nice bass...any 6AS7G tube with this exact construction is an RCA tube I believe, regardless of the branding.

The last tube is a Tung Sol 5998 6AS7G and the dynamics and impact of this tube trump both the Chatham and the RCA....but the cost is also much more.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> The RCA 6AS7G is a good sounding tube, all of the 6AS7G tubes that I have tried sound good.
> To be fair, it does not sound as good as the GEC 6AS7G tube, few if any do.
> 
> 
> ...


Great info!  How about Raytheon 6AS7G - ever tried those?


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> Great info!  How about Raytheon 6AS7G - ever tried those?



When I was looking at power tubes and reading tons of info (from Head-Fi members like Skylab) I ran across people comparing the RCAs to the Raytheons. Most of them mentioned they both sonically sounded the same. Been a while since I combed through the 6AS7g thread on here.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Great info!  How about Raytheon 6AS7G - ever tried those?



I have not tried them, but the ones that I have seen look like these and i think that these would be RCA 6AS7G


----------



## gibosi

To the best of my knowledge, the only American companies that manufactured the 6AS7G were RCA and Chatham. So tubes labeled Raytheon, Sylvania and GE are rebranded RCA or Chatham. And this also goes for Tung-Sol. TS never manufactured the 6AS7G. TS simply purchased Chatham in the mid-1950's, but production of the 6AS7G continued in the original Chatham factory, so these later TS 6AS7G are essentially Chatham.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

My pair of Tung Sol/Chatham 6AS7G for reference, copper rods, bottom getter only.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> To the best of my knowledge, the only American companies that manufactured the 6AS7G were RCA and Chatham. So tubes labeled Raytheon, Sylvania and GE are rebranded RCA or Chatham. And this also goes for Tung-Sol. TS never manufactured the 6AS7G. TS simply purchased Chatham in the mid-1950's, but production of the 6AS7G continued in the original Chatham factory, so these later TS 6AS7G are essentially Chatham.


Hi gibosi,
I think that there are Tung Sol 6AS7G tubes labeled as 6520, perhaps in two variants - with regular plates and dimpled plates. Don't know if the dimpled plates are the same as the 5998.
And then there are IBM labeled ones with a lot of 9s in the designation numbers.


----------



## gibosi

First, the TS 6520 and the 5998 were manufactured by Chatham, before and after TS acquired them. The true 6520 is a tweaked 6AS7G. Those with diamond plates are actually 5998. And yes, 3002399 is the IBM part number for the 5998. Evidently, IBM purchased these in such large quantities that TS/Chatham labeled them with IBM's inventory number before packing and shipment.


----------



## mordy

Let's see if you can figure out what this is - a pair of 6AS7G tubes Made in England, labeled as Amperex with Tektronix  stickers on the boxes. 












https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-2-Ampe...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## mordy

rosgr63 said:


> Nice to hear from you Rob.
> Early production RCA black plates are one of my favourite 6AS7G.
> They are not as good as the MOV 6AS7G but they are a great tubes.


Hi rosgr63,
Which driver tubes do you like to pair with the RCA 6AS7G in your Glenn amp?


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Let's see if you can figure out what this is - a pair of 6AS7G tubes Made in England, labeled as Amperex with Tektronix  stickers on the boxes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those are some beautiful relabeled Russian 6H13Cs, lol!


----------



## mordy (May 1, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Those are some beautiful relabeled Russian 6H13Cs, lol!





Phantaminum said:


> Those are some beautiful relabeled Russian 6H13Cs, lol!


Yep, correct. The giveaway is the inverted saucer getter cup (right side in middle picture.) For some reason there were very few manufacturers of the 6AS7 type tubes - RCA and Tung Sol in the US, GEC in Gt Britain, and Svetlana in Russia, regardless of brand names. Then there are Chinese variants - 6N5PJ etc but nobody seems to like those.
PS. A Google Image search turned up a Japanese NEC 6AS7. Don't know anybody who has them them, but should sound good:




Lately fake 6AS7 tubes are showing up under multiple brands with very realistic looking aged boxes - they are all Russian made. Some unscrupulous sellers are asking hundreds of dollars for some of these tubes....


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Lately fake 6AS7 tubes are showing up under multiple brands with very realistic looking aged boxes - they are all Russian made. Some unscrupulous sellers are asking hundreds of dollars for some of these tubes....


Post the links Mordy. Name and shame them.


----------



## rosgr63

mordy said:


> Hi rosgr63,
> Which driver tubes do you like to pair with the RCA 6AS7G in your Glenn amp?



Hi Mordy,

I've been using my RCA's with lots of different drivers and 3 of my 6 OTL's (GOTL, 2 SinglePower) and never kept a record.
I'm afraid I'm not disciplined at all, sorry I can't be of much help.


----------



## mordy

Tried to find SinglePower amps on Google but could not find them. But I found this 3W tube amp for $95 shipped:




https://www.ebay.com/itm/APPJ-Assem...Stereo-Power-Amp-Board-HiFi-DIY-/282415070393
No headphone jack.....but can be assembled without soldering.


----------



## mordy

OK - now I found the SinglePower amps: MPX3 and Supra. It appears to me that the company closed down.
Looks like the amps only use 6SN7 tubes (3x and 6x).


----------



## rosgr63

They had different configurations some used 6SN7 others 6SN7 and 6AS7G/5998 and so on.
They don't sound bad at all actually, I have 3 of them.


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Hi Mordy,
> 
> I've been using my RCA's with lots of different drivers and 3 of my 6 OTL's (GOTL, 2 SinglePower) and never kept a record.
> I'm afraid I'm not disciplined at all, sorry I can't be of much help.




6 OTL's    

At first I thought...why does he have six OTL's...then it hit me, because he has thousands of tubes


----------



## mordy

Come to think of it, I have four OTL amps and hundreds of tubes. But I am only using one amp and five tubes....
And somehow it does not seem excessive. I has been an interesting journey of almost ten years. First the Little Dot MKIII, then the Feliks Audio Elise followed by the FA Euforia. And now, the GOTL which appears to be the final destination of my audio journey.
Wife: "Honey, why do you have so many of those glass things?" 
Answer: "I am searching for audio perfection....."


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Wife: "Honey, why do you have so many of those glass things?"
> Answer: "I am searching for audio perfection....."


When my GF has asked me why do I need so many headphones, when I only have 2 ears, I reminded her that she only got 2 feet... Never heard any snarky comment since!


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Come to think of it, I have four OTL amps and hundreds of tubes. But I am only using one amp and five tubes....
> And somehow it does not seem excessive. I has been an interesting journey of almost ten years. First the Little Dot MKIII, then the Feliks Audio Elise followed by the FA Euforia. And now, the GOTL which appears to be the final destination of my audio journey.
> Wife: "Honey, why do you have so many of those glass things?"
> Answer: "I am searching for audio perfection....."



My wife likes to listen to music, and she will listen to my headphones at times, and she quite likes them.
Shes does wonder why it takes more than one headphone, amp and a few tubes .

One could save a ton of money if once they found their set-up that they could live with...headphone/amp/dac/tubes....they left head-fi and never appeared again until they were unhappy with what they were hearing   
Run away, leave with both hands over wallet, and don't look back over your shoulder


----------



## mordy

Hi whirlwind,
The truth is that a large part of the tubes I have are for the Little Dot amp - the EF95 family, and they were inexpensive when I bought them.
Part of the fun for me is to learn about tubes and spot rebranded ones or tubes sold by people who inherited their grandfather's radio repair shop inventory etc etc., all in order to spend less. There is no trick in spending hundreds of dollars on NOS brand name tubes in immaculate boxes. A lot of my tubes were bought as used or condition unknown, but only a few duds.
The same tube sold by some housewife somewhere can cost $10 when a professional seller would charge five or ten times more. But you have to have patience.
And then there is the fantastic imagined excuse for buying, namely that the tubes can only appreciate in value...
I am sure they do, until you try to sell them lol....
I have also learnt that tubes that I did not care for and sat unused, suddenly were discovered to sound great in certain combinations - another reason that I don't want to get rid of tubes that I am currently not using.
An example would be the RCA 6080 tubes that sat in a box for years languishing - now it is my preferred output tube with the EL8 and 6N7GT.


----------



## 2359glenn (May 1, 2019)

. Then there are Chinese variants - 6N5PJ etc but nobody seems to like them.

Svetlana makes a 6N5 that sounds as good as there 6H13.
Don't really know the difference they sound quite good for $5 but shipping from Russia is as much as the tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Zachik said:


> When my GF has asked me why do I need so many headphones, when I only have 2 ears, I reminded her that she only got 2 feet... Never heard any snarky comment since!



Glad to hear that worked!

I ask mine if she expects to grow any additional feet....


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> . Then there are Chinese variants - 6N5PJ etc but nobody seems to like them.
> 
> Svetlana makes a 6N5 that sounds as good as there 6H13.
> Don't really know the difference they sound quite good for $5 but shipping from Russia is as much as the tube.


Hi Glenn,
I read somewhere that the 6N5 and 6H13 tubes are the same, just civilian and military nomenclature - the same situation exists with British tubes with civilian and military designations.


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> 6 OTL's
> 
> At first I thought...why does he have six OTL's...then it hit me, because he has thousands of tubes



Most likely insane, but don't tell Joe........


----------



## rosgr63

mordy said:


> Hi whirlwind,
> The truth is that a large part of the tubes I have are for the Little Dot amp - the EF95 family, and they were inexpensive when I bought them.
> Part of the fun for me is to learn about tubes and spot rebranded ones or tubes sold by people who inherited their grandfather's radio repair shop inventory etc etc., all in order to spend less. There is no trick in spending hundreds of dollars on NOS brand name tubes in immaculate boxes. A lot of my tubes were bought as used or condition unknown, but only a few duds.
> The same tube sold by some housewife somewhere can cost $10 when a professional seller would charge five or ten times more. But you have to have patience.
> ...



I had lots of fun with my Little Dot, I still have it but haven't used it for sometime. 
I'm all SS at the minute.......a heretic, I know what a shame!


----------



## mordy

rosgr63 said:


> I had lots of fun with my Little Dot, I still have it but haven't used it for sometime.
> I'm all SS at the minute.......a heretic, I know what a shame!


Hi rosgr63,
May I ask which amps you are listening to?
Sansui, Yamaha, Pioneer or others?
I think Whirlwind likes both tubes and ss.
And nothing heretic in enjoying listening to music......


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Mordy, 

It's been way too long since I used a speaker amp for headphones.
One of my main SS headphone amps is a Rudistor PRO10B but at the moment I'm using a Graham Slee Novo.


----------



## Monsterzero (May 2, 2019)

Can anyone explain the correct way to use this adapter? How does it lock onto the base?
Been sitting here for ten minutes and cant get it to go in tight.

Also what setting does the voltage switch need to be for this tube? 6/12/25?


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Can anyone explain the correct way to use this adapter? How does it lock onto the base?
> Been sitting here for ten minutes and cant get it to go in tight.
> 
> Also what setting does the voltage switch need to be for this tube? 6/12/25?




Monster, find the 4 pins on the tube that has the contacts the furthest apart.

Line those up with the socket match and put the contacts down at an angle where you can see they line up with the socket nicely..then just push the tube forward in the socket.

What tube is this....a rectifier I am assuming.


----------



## Monsterzero

Thanks, I tried that prior to posting to no avail. 
It's an FDD20 that @UntilThen sent in my tube care package.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks, I tried that prior to posting to no avail.
> It's an FDD20 that @UntilThen sent in my tube care package.



Oh, driver tube...not sure on the voltage....someone else will need to chime in.

The side contact bass tubes can be tricky to get in the socket at first, but gets easier.
If the tube is loose you may need to make sure the contacts all look good in the adapter, maybe one needs tweaked.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks, I tried that prior to posting to no avail.
> It's an FDD20 that @UntilThen sent in my tube care package.



Where did you get the adapter from? I'm assuming it's a FDD20 to 6SN7 adapter. If that's the case you should be able to slot the FDD20 in. You have to set the switch to 12v.

This is the made in china adapter that I use. The white one.


----------



## Monsterzero

I had Deyan make it for me. 
I will mess around with it in a bit. Gonna chill and watch the Sixers vs. Raptors


----------



## whirlwind

Sixers  vs Raptors is good series

I am missing not seeing the Cavs!


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> I had lots of fun with my Little Dot, I still have it but haven't used it for sometime.
> I'm all SS at the minute.......a heretic, I know what a shame!



I'm running a Sansui AU-717 currently and loving it for both headphones and speakers.


----------



## UntilThen

I sold @UsoppNoKami  my Sansui AU-7700 and he's loving it.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I'm running a Sansui AU-717 currently and loving it for both headphones and speakers.



Bet the LCD-3 sounds great on that.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Bet the LCD-3 sounds great on that.



It's unbelievable. More so with these Axis Voicebox S super monitor in near field listening.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks, I tried that prior to posting to no avail.
> It's an FDD20 that @UntilThen sent in my tube care package.



12 volts
Those Chinese sockets suck you have to push hard to get it to snap in.


----------



## 2359glenn

Oh that is not Chinese just slide it in as far as it will go.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks, I tried that prior to posting to no avail.
> It's an FDD20 that @UntilThen sent in my tube care package.



The FDD20s are a pain to put in the socket. It takes a bit of force to get it in but I would first line it all up and wiggle it around slowly into the socket then give it one final push. Once you get it in you won't think about pulling it out of the adapter again, lol.


----------



## whirlwind

Those Yakamoto teflon sockets for these side contact tubes are wonderful.  Tubes go in easy-peasy


----------



## mordy

The FDD20 is a 12V tube.


----------



## UntilThen

But the real question is @Monsterzero ....

What do you think of the Brimar 13D1 and Tung Sol 12SL7gt bgrp that I send you?


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> The FDD20s are a pain to put in the socket. It takes a bit of force to get it in but I would first line it all up and wiggle it around slowly into the socket then give it one final push. Once you get it in you won't think about pulling it out of the adapter again, lol.


Got the Chinese adapter today!  Do not have FDD20 tubes to test it with, yet... @Monsterzero has become (without knowing) my guinea pig


----------



## Monsterzero (May 2, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> But the real question is @Monsterzero ....
> 
> What do you think of the Brimar 13D1 and Tung Sol 12SL7gt bgrp that I send you?



Honestly I havent turned on my GOTL in a long time. I have the HiFiMan Jade 2 e-stat in for a review and have been listening to that exclusively.
It arrived a couple days after the tubes did,so far I've only tried the GEC 6AS7G.
Im really enjoying the Jade 2. I def feel its a great sounding system,but I hope @2359glenn finds time to design an e-stat amp.
As much as I do like the sound of the Jade,im looking forward to rolling my GOTL back into service.


----------



## Zachik

Hey guys - I need your help / advice:
I just got today c3g tubes, and they smell as if they've spent 10 years on the production floor of a cigarette factory 
Not kidding - the smell made me gag the moment I opened the package!!  (I am not a smoker, if that is not obvious by now...)

So... what do I do??? Use alcohol to clean them?  Use sanitizing wet wipes?  what is safe to use with non-glass tubes like c3g ?!
Just air them? (I think it would take weeks or even months before smell just evaporates naturally......)
ANY advice would be HIGHLY appreciated!!!

Thanks.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Hey guys - I need your help / advice:
> I just got today c3g tubes, and they smell as if they've spent 10 years on the production floor of a cigarette factory
> Not kidding - the smell made me gag the moment I opened the package!!  (I am not a smoker, if that is not obvious by now...)
> 
> ...


I do not have personal experience with your problem, but you could try to fill a dish or cup with baking soda and stick the aluminum portion of the tube in it and let it sit overnight - might work. (But keep the pins away from the baking soda.)


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Hey guys - I need your help / advice:
> I just got today c3g tubes, and they smell as if they've spent 10 years on the production floor of a cigarette factory
> Not kidding - the smell made me gag the moment I opened the package!!  (I am not a smoker, if that is not obvious by now...)
> 
> ...



Its hard to get cigar/cigarette smell out of things. I have used in the past,to varying degrees of success:

coffee beans
dryer sheets
baking soda
fresh air


----------



## JazzVinyl (May 2, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Hey guys - I need your help / advice:
> I just got today c3g tubes, and they smell as if they've spent 10 years on the production floor of a cigarette factory
> Not kidding - the smell made me gag the moment I opened the package!!  (I am not a smoker, if that is not obvious by now...)
> 
> ...



Use lighter fluid.  Cotton swaps, test small area first, make sure it does not bring the black paint off.  But if safe, will remove the toe'backy juice/smell, in a hurry.


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> Just air them? (I think it would take weeks or even months before smell just evaporates naturally......)
> ANY advice would be HIGHLY appreciated!!!



Metal can't absorb tobacco odors, so whatever it is should come off rather easily. If you don't want to wait for them to air out, wiping them with sanitizing wet wipes as you suggest might do the trick.


----------



## heliosphann

Get some fabric softer sheets and put them with the tubes in a plastic bag/airtight container


----------



## JazzVinyl (May 2, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> The FDD20s are a pain to put in the socket. It takes a bit of force to get it in but I would first line it all up and wiggle it around slowly into the socket then give it one final push. Once you get it in you won't think about pulling it out of the adapter again, lol.



Goes in no problem, once you figure the correct angle.  Align the 4 closet paddles first, put in at an angle..the other 3 paddles go in, Dandy...

Comes out easy too, once you get the hang of it...


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I sold @UsoppNoKami  my Sansui AU-7700 and he's loving it.



Youre gonna drive up the prices of vintage gear even higher! Shhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! 



JazzVinyl said:


> Goes in no problem, once you figure the correct angle.  Align the 4 closet paddles first, put in at an angle..the other 3 paddles go in, Dandy...
> 
> Comes out easy too, once you get the hang of it...



Yup,finally got it in. Angled in the 4 closest pins,and then pushed from the bottom of the adapter to get a snug fit.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> I sold @UsoppNoKami  my Sansui AU-7700 and he's loving it.





Monsterzero said:


> Youre gonna drive up the prices of vintage gear even higher! Shhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

^^ beautiful layout mate.


----------



## Zachik

heliosphann said:


> Get some fabric softer sheets and put them with the tubes in a plastic bag/airtight container


This one seems like least likely to cause any chemical reaction with pins / base / "tube" so will go for this one...


gibosi said:


> Metal can't absorb tobacco odors, so whatever it is should come off rather easily. If you don't want to wait for them to air out, wiping them with sanitizing wet wipes as you suggest might do the trick.


Can anyone confirm whether the chemicals in the wet wipes are safe and not cause corrosion or other issues?


----------



## 2359glenn (May 4, 2019)

This morning I was playing with 6J5 tubes in the L63 sockets in my amp. These are fine sounding tubes and can be gotten in round plate in many brands for cheep.
A 6J5 is 1/2 a 6SN7 you will need a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter to use these. These are fine tubes for cheap.
I shouldn't have posted this other tubes I posted about like the 596 went from $15 to hundreds of dollars.
Here is a Sylvania round plate for cheep.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6J5GT-NOS-...z8AAOSwgadcOwpF:sc:USPSFirstClass!27507!US!-1
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Na...346987?hash=item5d894aeb2b:g:sK0AAMXQVOhRGCkT
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Na...=122647439034996a648580f84fd485d71c963924fb04


----------



## whirlwind (May 4, 2019)

Just finished listening to this cd, ripped to flac through the GEL3N

If you like this kind of stuff and can stream music...give the album a spin....the dvd is great.


----------



## whirlwind

UsoppNoKami said:


>




How high do these headphone stands extend ?
Looks like this model may also have tilt, front/back ?
That is a nice design. I like it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Just finished listening to this cd, ripped to flac through the GEL3N
> 
> If you like this kind of stuff and can stream music...give the album a spin....the dvd is great.



Buddy Whittington is another guy that comes through here and plays small clubs...the best way to see live music imho.  

Him and Otis Taylor and Savoy Brown, even had Commander Cody and the lost Airmen come though, one year 

Anyone remember them?

Here is a suggestion for when you are in a mood for deep thought....Joni Mitchell, album is "Chaulk mark in the rain"...

Fourth song side one of the LP: "Tea leaf prophecy (lay down your arms)"....

Really struck me with her lyrics.   Don't know how it sounds on digital, but via the LP at generous volume, I was enthralled.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> This morning I was playing with 6J5 tubes in the L63 sockets in my amp. These are fine sounding tubes and can be gotten in round plate in many brands for cheep.
> A 6J5 is 1/2 a 6SN7 you will need a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter to use these. These are fine tubes for cheap.
> I shouldn't have posted this other tubes I posted about like the 596 went from $15 to hundreds of dollars.


2 * 6J5 vs 1 6SN7 is like 2 mono block amps vs 1 stereo amp 

I'd probably go for 4 6AS7/6BL7/5998/6080, 2 C3g, 2 6J5/L63, 1 6SN7 and 1 rectifier for a GOTL build.


----------



## whirlwind (May 4, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Buddy Whittington is another guy that comes through here and plays small clubs...the best way to see live music imho.
> 
> Him and Otis Taylor and Savoy Brown, even had Commander Cody and the lost Airmen come though, one year
> 
> ...




Yes, it is a wonderful way to see live music. Where I live we have to drive about 60 miles, but there is a coal fired pizza joint and bar called Natalie's Coal Fired Pizza.

They have enough tables to sit 50 people...it's makes a great date night with my wife....drive a few craft beers....eat coal fired pizza from an oven that cooks it in about 5 minutes or so, really fast.

We have been fortunate enough to see Martin Bare, Albert Cummings, Walter Trout, Samantha Fish and are hoping to get to see Joanne Shaw Taylor.

Supper clubs are really cool.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> there is a coal fired pizza joint and bar called Natalie's Coal Fired Pizza.



Is that place on North HIgh Street in Columbus?


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> This morning I was playing with 6J5 tubes in the L63 sockets in my amp. These are fine sounding tubes and can be gotten in round plate in many brands for cheep.
> A 6J5 is 1/2 a 6SN7 you will need a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter to use these. These are fine tubes for cheap.
> I shouldn't have posted this other tubes I posted about like the 596 went from $15 to hundreds of dollars.
> Here is a Sylvania round plate for cheep.



So,you would need one dbl headed adapter into the 6SN7 socket? Any noise? Hows the staging and depth on these?


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Is that place on North HIgh Street in Columbus?



Yes sir Ken, it sure is.

https://nataliescoalfiredpizza.com/


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Yes, it is a wonderful way to see live music. Where I live we have to drive about 60 miles, but there is a coal fired pizza joint and bar called Natalie's Coal Fired Pizza.
> 
> They have enough tables to sit 50 people...it's makes a great date night with my wife....drive a few craft beers....eat coal fired pizza from an oven that cooks it in about 5 minutes or so, really fast.
> 
> ...



Very nice, Joe!!!

How was Martin Barre? He came to Denver and I could not find anyone interested in seeing him, so didn't go, and there was ZERO reviews of the show.   He is one of my favorite rock guitarists....I think he is absolutely amazing....can switch from rythum to lead blazingly fast and is endlessly inventive.  



Cheers....


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Very nice, Joe!!!
> 
> How was Martin Barre? He came to Denver and I could not find anyone interested in seeing him, so didn't go, and there was ZERO reviews of the show.   He is one of my favorite rock guitarists....I think he is absolutely amazing....can switch from rythum to lead blazingly fast and is endlessly inventive.
> 
> ...




It was a really fun night. this was a couple of years ago we saw him there. He comes back every year to.
When we saw him he played stuff from his "Out Of Play" album and lots of stuff from his Jethro Tull days.
Since we had a little too many cocktails, we spent the night in Columbus.

Ken, if you have a date night here...get one of the meatballs!


----------



## leftside (May 4, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> So,you would need one dbl headed adapter into the 6SN7 socket? Any noise? Hows the staging and depth on these?


Yes. I posted some pics on the Woo WA22 thread. Here's with Raytheon. Metal base, black plates, early 1940's KenRad were only $7 each and are as good as any KenRad 6SN7's I've heard.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-wa22-amp-owner-unite.826386/page-39#post-14825566

They are amongst some of my favorite driver tubes. And with the GOTL you only need two. I'll get Glenn to build my OTL with L63/6J5 sockets so I don't need to use adapters. Shame I'm not in the US and then I could send you some to listen to. Very cheap to send packages within the US, but quite expensive sending from Canada to US and vice-versa.


----------



## gibosi

Tubes and chess.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> So,you would need one dbl headed adapter into the 6SN7 socket? Any noise? Hows the staging and depth on these?



All these 6J5s sound different I my self use two GEC L63 into to GEC6AS7s sound with the Verite is fantastic.
two GEC L63 = one GEC B65 for much less money. Two Tung-Sol 6J5 round plate = one Tung-Sol Black glass round plate for less then $40


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> 2 * 6J5 vs 1 6SN7 is like 2 mono block amps vs 1 stereo amp
> 
> I'd probably go for 4 6AS7/6BL7/5998/6080, 2 C3g, 2 6J5/L63, 1 6SN7 and 1 rectifier for a GOTL build.



Almost why bother with the 6SN7 socket the L63/6J5 equal or surpass any 6SN7.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Almost why bother with the 6SN7 socket the L63/6J5 equal or surpass any 6SN7.


Yeah I agree. But I have a few nice 6SN7 and variations to use as well. If starting from scratch, or wanting to limit tube rolling options it would be a good idea. The 6SN7 does give you a lot of tube rolling options - especially if you consider the various adapters as well. 6N7/ECC31 for example.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Yeah I agree. But I have a few nice 6SN7 and variations to use as well. If starting from scratch, or wanting to limit tube rolling options it would be a good idea. The 6SN7 does give you a lot of tube rolling options - especially if you consider the various adapters as well. 6N7/ECC31 for example.



Yeah but are they going to beat a L63?
I guess different flavors of sound though.


----------



## mordy

The 6J5 tube is readily available at low prices. Now, can the 6C5 tube be substituted? Does it have the same pinout? 
Re the GEC L63, is there a big difference in sound between ST and straight glass tubes?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

whirlwind said:


> How high do these headphone stands extend ?
> Looks like this model may also have tilt, front/back ?
> That is a nice design. I like it.



That's as high as it gets. Can rotate when the height adjustment knob is loosened, but given the design you'd want it centered. Room's Audio Line, sold by Thomann


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Yeah I agree. But I have a few nice 6SN7 and variations to use as well. If starting from scratch, or wanting to limit tube rolling options it would be a good idea. The 6SN7 does give you a lot of tube rolling options - especially if you consider the various adapters as well. 6N7/ECC31 for example.



This could be a wonderful option for someone who does not already have a bunch of 6/12/25  SN7 tubes.

If someone is ordering an amp and they have no tubes....sound like this option would be the best.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> The 6J5 tube is readily available at low prices. Now, can the 6C5 tube be substituted? Does it have the same pinout?
> Re the GEC L63, is there a big difference in sound between ST and straight glass tubes?



The 6C5 has the same pinout 
I will have to try some of those they are even cheaper.


----------



## mordy

Hi Glenn,
Since I have Ken-Rad, NU and TS 6F8G tubes and many other 6SN7 tubes, what do the 6J5 (or 6C5) tubes bring to the table? Are two separate triodes better sounding than a dual triode in the GOTL? In my GOTL they still have to occupy only one 6SN7 socket via a dual adapter.


----------



## leftside

Also 6P5 can be substituted.


----------



## mordy

The plot thickens - there is a loctal equivalent to the 6J5GT - the 7A4. And for the adventurous - a 12V version - the 14A4. There is even available an adapter 2x7A4 to 6SN7.
And the 14A4 welcomes you back to the $1 tube.......


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> The plot thickens - there is a loctal equivalent to the 6J5GT - the 7A4. And for the adventurous - a 12V version - the 14A4. There is even available an adapter 2x7A4 to 6SN7.
> And the 14A4 welcomes you back to the $1 tube.......



The 14A4 is $3 at ESRC not a bad price.
Most or all Loctal tubes are Sylvania should sound like a good Sylvania 6SN7


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> The 14A4 is $3 at ESRC not a bad price.


Pardon my ignorance, but what (or who) is ESRC?


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but what (or who) is ESRC?


It is a supplier of vacuum tubes:
http://www.esrcvacuumtubes.com/


----------



## Monsterzero

I have a question:
I had the EL8s in my GOTL for a couple weeks,leaving the SN7 slot open. Last night I rolled different tubes in and now I have a gurgling sound in my right channel. Does dust get into open sockets and cause this problem? How do i prevent it,and how do i get rid of the noise? 
These tubes never had any noise prior.


----------



## m17xr2b

mordy said:


> Re the GEC L63, is there a big difference in sound between ST and straight glass tubes?


Yes, they have different plate construction and sound different. Straight glass is more relaxed and laid back where the ST is more aggressive, in your face. Can't say one is better, different flavours for different occasions. Incidentally both correspond to the different B65. The ST has a symmetric plate and the straight is asymmetric with punctures only on one side.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I have a question:
> I had the EL8s in my GOTL for a couple weeks,leaving the SN7 slot open. Last night I rolled different tubes in and now I have a gurgling sound in my right channel. Does dust get into open sockets and cause this problem? How do i prevent it,and how do i get rid of the noise?
> These tubes never had any noise prior.



Is this with all the tubes you put in the 6SN7 socket?


----------



## mordy

m17xr2b said:


> Yes, they have different plate construction and sound different. Straight glass is more relaxed and laid back where the ST is more aggressive, in your face. Can't say one is better, different flavours for different occasions. Incidentally both correspond to the different B65. The ST has a symmetric plate and the straight is asymmetric with punctures only on one side.


Hi m17xr2b,
Thanks for the answer. Are you using these tubes in a Glenn amp?


----------



## m17xr2b

I don't have a Glenn amp but the sound was pretty consistent across bottlehead Crack, Apex Teton and Peak and Woo WA5.  Overall I prefer the ECC32/33 and 13D2 over L63 so they don't get any use.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Is this with all the tubes you put in the 6SN7 socket?



So I pulled all the tubes,blew into each socket,and now its silent again,even with 6BX7s in. 
Is there such a thing as socket caps,so I can cover up the unused sockets to keep them dust free?


----------



## leftside

m17xr2b said:


> Yes, they have different plate construction and sound different. Straight glass is more relaxed and laid back where the ST is more aggressive, in your face. Can't say one is better, different flavours for different occasions. Incidentally both correspond to the different B65. The ST has a symmetric plate and the straight is asymmetric with punctures only on one side.


The GEC straight glass also have inverted cup getter (earliest version with black base) 'D' getter (earlier version) and 'O' getter (later version), I think I have a very slight preference for the earliest version with cup getter - just seem to be a little smoother sounding, but they are all great.

The ST type all appear to be inverted cup getter, whether they have clear glass, grey glass, 'shiny chrome' glass (but you can't see inside a lot of them...), are branded GEC, MWT, Marconi or Osram. I'm not sure if I prefer them to the ECCxx range of tubes. Further listening is required  Sure would like to listen to them with an amp designed for them, and not using adapters.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> So I pulled all the tubes,blew into each socket,and now its silent again,even with 6BX7s in.
> Is there such a thing as socket caps,so I can cover up the unused sockets to keep them dust free?



Probably some oxidation just pulling the tubes out and putting them back in cleaned the sockets or the tube pins.
You can try putting some deox on the tube pins just don't put it directly into the tube sockets.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> The GEC straight glass also have inverted cup getter (earliest version with black base) 'D' getter (earlier version) and 'O' getter (later version), I think I have a very slight preference for the earliest version with cup getter - just seem to be a little smoother sounding, but they are all great.
> 
> The ST type all appear to be inverted cup getter, whether they have clear glass, grey glass, 'shiny chrome' glass (but you can't see inside a lot of them...), are branded GEC, MWT, Marconi or Osram. I'm not sure if I prefer them to the ECCxx range of tubes. Further listening is required  Sure would like to listen to them with an amp designed for them, and not using adapters.



After playing with a bunch of 6J5s I went back to the GEC L63 this is the perfect sound fore the Verite.
But the L63 is a little bright for the Auteur prefer the EL3N with 6J5 adapter with those phones. Have to try the Aeolus just have no time.
Haven't used my HD-800s or 650s since I got the ZMF phones


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> After playing with a bunch of 6J5s I went back to the GEC L63 this is the perfect sound fore the Verite.


What pads are you using on the Verite?


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> What pads are you using on the Verite?



Not sure what pads they are. Zach said he shipped them with the warmer pads on them haven't tried the neutral pads yet.
Don't have much time to just sit and enjoy yet.


----------



## Monsterzero

The warmer pads provide a more holographic imaging. For whatever reason, the warmer tubes provide a deeper staging. If and when you start chasing that 3D thing, you will understand why I have been buying so many tubes. My goal is to brighten the tone without sacrificing the depth. 
If you find a good combo, kindly keep us informed. 
The Verite pads brighten the tone, but the staging depth collapses.


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> Not sure what pads they are. Zach said he shipped them with the warmer pads on them haven't tried the neutral pads yet.
> Don't have much time to just sit and enjoy yet.



Build those amps! Build those amps!


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Build those amps! Build those amps!



Amps that is why I have no time to listen to my new phones.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

2359glenn said:


> Amps that is why I have no time to listen to my new phones.



How our hearts flutter @heliosphann


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> Amps that is why I have no time to listen to my new phones.



Catch 22!

(also coming to Hulu soon)


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> Build those amps! Build those amps!




Ha ha.....the wait can be long and sometimes a bit painful, but in the end....you get rewarded with a great amp.

Being a one man show and having a full time job, girlfriend, a life to live and all other things that life throws upon us....it can be difficult to produce very many amps even in a years time.

Patience is the key, even though at times it is very hard.


----------



## heliosphann

whirlwind said:


> Ha ha.....the wait can be long and sometimes a bit painful, but in the end....you get rewarded with a great amp.
> 
> Being a one man show and having a full time job, girlfriend, a life to live and all other things that life throws upon us....it can be difficult to produce very many amps even in a years time.
> 
> Patience is the key, even though at times it is very hard.



More worried about my tubes. They're homeless and lonely.


----------



## Zachik

heliosphann said:


> More worried about my tubes. They're homeless and lonely.


The simple solution is to send them for adoption to people who DO have their amp...


----------



## leftside

heliosphann said:


> More worried about my tubes. They're homeless and lonely.


Buy another amp for now? If those tubes are faulty, and you haven't tested them/tried them out, then you won't be able to get your money back when you eventually do try them out.


----------



## Phantaminum

leftside said:


> Buy another amp for now? If those tubes are faulty, and you haven't tested them/tried them out, then you won't be able to get your money back when you eventually do try them out.



Very true. I think out of the 30 tubes I originally purchased I had to toss out 10. Most were 6BX7s but the rest were drivers that were too noisy or had too much static and well past the return date. Maybe a used La Figaro 339 would work in the mean time.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> Very true. I think out of the 30 tubes I originally purchased I had to toss out 10. Most were 6BX7s but the rest were drivers that were too noisy or had too much static and well past the return date. Maybe a used La Figaro 339 would work in the mean time.



It sucks to have to throw them away, but that is tube life.  It can be difficult to get a nice set of six 6BX7 and to have silence, I was able to run four in adapters and be silent.
I love the tubes.

I have had a tough time finding Sylvania 6SN7W , black plastic base version to be quiet enough for me yet, all mine have a small amount of annoyance.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Very true. I think out of the 30 tubes I originally purchased I had to toss out 10. Most were 6BX7s but the rest were drivers that were too noisy or had too much static and well past the return date. Maybe a used La Figaro 339 would work in the mean time.


Next time send me the troublesome tubes. I was able to resuscitate several tubes using the silicone tape for hum and microphonic ones, and by reheating the pins with a soldering iron for 30 seconds for the ones making explosive noises and pops. Some tubes responded just by sitting and cooking for a while.
However, I was not able to save all of them.....


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> It sucks to have to throw them away, but that is tube life.  It can be difficult to get a nice set of six 6BX7 and to have silence, I was able to run four in adapters and be silent.
> I love the tubes.
> 
> I have had a tough time finding Sylvania 6SN7W , black plastic base version to be quiet enough for me yet, all mine have a small amount of annoyance.


One of the tubes I was able to save was a black base Sylvania 6SN7W that the previous owner had written off as unusable due to loud pops and explosions.
A 30W soldering iron touching each pin for 30 sec (hold it with the pins down) cured it.


----------



## whirlwind (May 7, 2019)

mordy said:


> Next time send me the troublesome tubes. I was able to resuscitate several tubes using the silicone tape for hum and microphonic ones, and by reheating the pins with a soldering iron for 30 seconds for the ones making explosive noises and pops. Some tubes responded just by sitting and cooking for a while.
> However, I was not able to save all of them.....



Yep, I have saved a couple tubes by reheating the pins. 
A couple of 1950's Sylvania 6SN7GT

I use a 40 watt Weller iron....works great


----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> It sucks to have to throw them away, but that is tube life.  It can be difficult to get a nice set of six 6BX7 and to have silence, I was able to run four in adapters and be silent.
> I love the tubes.
> 
> I have had a tough time finding Sylvania 6SN7W , black plastic base version to be quiet enough for me yet, all mine have a small amount of annoyance.



I have a black base 6SN7W that I’ve used a hot iron on to see if it would fix the snap, crackle, and pop from it. Sounded great for about a week, took my HD650s off and heard a loud pop. Quickly turned off the amp and luckily the headphones where fine but now each time I open up my tube drawer and see it I give it a very skeptical look, lol.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> One of the tubes I was able to save was a black base Sylvania 6SN7W that the previous owner had written off as unusable due to loud pops and explosions.
> A 30W soldering iron touching each pin for 30 sec (hold it with the pins down) cured it.



Most of the ones I threw away were after I gave them the hot iron treatment. Couldn’t really do that to my pair of quite microphonic Telefunken c3gs but as long as I don’t bump the table or move the headphone cable it’s fine. I couldn’t imagine them working when using the GOTL as a preamp to speakers. I have a few National Unions that I need to give the hot iron treatment again and/or test them out with tubes other than 6BX7s. Since I’m now mostly using the Verite with 6AS7s/6H13Cs/7236s which are much quieter. If I find any that I cant revive I’ll send them your way Mordy. This General Practitioner will need a Specialist for that job.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Most of the ones I threw away were after I gave them the hot iron treatment. Couldn’t really do that to my pair of quite microphonic Telefunken c3gs but as long as I don’t bump the table or move the headphone cable it’s fine. I couldn’t imagine them working when using the GOTL as a preamp to speakers. I have a few National Unions that I need to give the hot iron treatment again and/or test them out with tubes other than 6BX7s. Since I’m now mostly using the Verite with 6AS7s/6H13Cs/7236s which are much quieter. If I find any that I cant revive I’ll send them your way Mordy. This General Practitioner will need a Specialist for that job.


You live and learn...
Some tubes need more than one heat treatment. And the silicone tape is supposed to work well on metal casings as well (C3g). Worth a $2 gamble if you can wait for a slow boat from China.......
And I ALWAYS use a pair of inexpensive headphones to check on the results, or even when I switch tubes in my amp. The world is full of "insensitive" $20 or less headphones that won't die from a pop or two, unlike the high strung thoroughbreds that may blow a driver - perish the thought!


----------



## Phantaminum

@attmci I’ve decided to try the 7316 tubes you mentioned. Should be here by Thursday afternoon.

Long plate D-Getters. I’m really enjoying some of the smaller audio tubes.


----------



## heliosphann

leftside said:


> Buy another amp for now? If those tubes are faulty, and you haven't tested them/tried them out, then you won't be able to get your money back when you eventually do try them out.



I think my Stratus will suffice in the meantime... 

As for the tubes, quite a few have been from people I know and tubes I've used in other amps. Barring a few expensive tubes, most of the ones I haven't tried out are cheap so I'm not too worried.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> The world is full of "insensitive" $20 or less headphones that won't die from a pop or two, unlike the high strung thoroughbreds that may blow a driver - perish the thought!


Can you please provide couple examples??  Would love to get a $20 "insensitive tester headphone", since I am currently using HD600 for this purpose...


----------



## Phantaminum

By the way, any of you guys have any great Bossa Nova artists you recommend as well as any Tidal or Spotify channels?


----------



## attmci (May 7, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> @attmci I’ve decided to try the 7316 tubes you mentioned. Should be here by Thursday afternoon.
> 
> Long plate D-Getters. I’m really enjoying some of the smaller audio tubes.


I don't have a GOTL. So please don't trust anything I said here.


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> I think my Stratus will suffice in the meantime...
> 
> As for the tubes, quite a few have been from people I know and tubes I've used in other amps. Barring a few expensive tubes, most of the ones I haven't tried out are cheap so I'm not too worried.



If you are going to use this amp on the Verite I suggest getting all GEC tubes A GEC B36/12SN7 driver and two GEC 6AS7 outputs.
If you can't get a B36 then get two GEC L63 and a adapter. The B65 is way to expensive the B36 is the same tube in 12 volt at 1/3 the price.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> It sucks to have to throw them away, but that is tube life.  It can be difficult to get a nice set of six 6BX7 and to have silence, I was able to run four in adapters and be silent.
> I love the tubes.
> 
> I have had a tough time finding Sylvania 6SN7W , black plastic base version to be quiet enough for me yet, all mine have a small amount of annoyance.


Joe, a noisey tube in one amp could be absolutely silent in the others.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> If you are going to use this amp on the Verite I suggest getting all GEC tubes A GEC B36/12SN7 driver and two GEC 6AS7 outputs.
> If you can't get a B36 then get two GEC L63 and a adapter. The B65 is way to expensive the B36 is the same tube in 12 volt at 1/3 the price.



I ran an all GEC roll w/ the Verite and it wasnt a very good combo. Perhaps 2 out of the three or just one GEC is another story though.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I ran an all GEC roll w/ the Verite and it wasnt a very good combo. Perhaps 2 out of the three or just one GEC is another story though.



I liked it with the Verite not so good with the Auteur.
The Auteur is better with EL3N drivers or the 1633. At least this is my opinion.


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> If you are going to use this amp on the Verite I suggest getting all GEC tubes A GEC B36/12SN7 driver and two GEC 6AS7 outputs.
> If you can't get a B36 then get two GEC L63 and a adapter. The B65 is way to expensive the B36 is the same tube in 12 volt at 1/3 the price.



Working on the GEC 6AS7's. They're a bit elusive at the moment. I'll look into the B36 or L63.


----------



## Phantaminum (May 7, 2019)

attmci said:


> I don't have a GOTL. So please don't trust anything I said here.



The Mullard ECC82's really surprised me. Really having fun with that tube.

Smaller tubes can be surprising sound wise and most mix extremely well with the 6H13Cs. Even if I don't use the 7316s in the GOTL I'll end up using them in the Liquid Platinum.


----------



## 2359glenn (May 7, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Working on the GEC 6AS7's. They're a bit elusive at the moment. I'll look into the B36 or L63.



The B36 might be cheaper if you can find one you will have to buy two L63s and a L63 to 6SN7 adapter.


----------



## mordy (May 7, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Can you please provide couple examples??  Would love to get a $20 "insensitive tester headphone", since I am currently using HD600 for this purpose...


Hi Zachik,
A couple of years ago I bought an open box Sennheiser 201 for around $14 on Amazon -it was fine, just missing an 1/4" to 3.5mm adapter, and this is the headphone I use for testing. It sounds fairly good but no match for the expensive stuff. Checked now, but this one goes for around $40 now. All the suggested headphones below have similar or better consumer ratings.

Here are a couple of suggestions, based on price (under $20 and free shipping with Prime) and customer ratings, but I have not listened to any of these.
https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-He...H2SM74FEMH921QD3PRRC&qid=1557281646&s=gateway

https://www.amazon.com/JVC-Sized-He...&qid=1557282049&s=gateway&sr=8-17-spons&psc=1
The Panasonic has over 5500 consumer ratings and the JVC over 1700 so I consider these 4 Star ratings reliable. The Sony below has over 8400 ratings.

Another good source for this stuff is Newegg with free shipping: Want a well rated Sony?
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...ignorebbr=1&IsFeedbackTab=true#scrollFullInfo

All the above headphones cost less than $16.

IMHO the above headphones should do the job for testing unknown tubes. There is a ton of stuff available - I just skimmed off a few with good ratings......


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> A couple of years ago I bought an open box Sennheiser 201 for around $14 on Amazon -it was fine, just missing an 1/4" to 3.5mm adapter, and this is the headphone I use for testing. It sounds fairly good but no match for the expensive stuff.


Too funny - I do own an HD201, but did not think those are "hard to drive" or "insensitive"... never tried to plug them to my GOTL thinking the impedance is WAY too low for OTL amp.
I actually use them when testing new tubes on my Lyr 3 and Liquid Platinum


----------



## Monsterzero

This has absolutely nothing to do with the GOTL,but a couple members here have PM'd me asking my thoughts on the Hifiman Jade 2 e-stat system,so here it is. Enjoy.....Oh and @2359glenn  please watch and consider an e-stat amp


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Too funny - I do own an HD201, but did not think those are "hard to drive" or "insensitive"... never tried to plug them to my GOTL thinking the impedance is WAY too low for OTL amp.
> I actually use them when testing new tubes on my Lyr 3 and Liquid Platinum



You would be surprised what this OTL can drive 32 ohms not a problem.


----------



## rosgr63

attmci said:


> Joe, a noisey tube in one amp could be absolutely silent in the others.



Henry I have an amp that can use 6F8Gs for driver and output duties.
One of my NU round plates is noisy as a driver and quiet as output on that amp.

In my other amps the noisy NU is a quiet driver.
It depends on the operating point.



attmci said:


> I don't have a GOTL. So please don't trust anything I said here.



I feel terrible when I'm asked which tubes I like.
A lot depends on personal preferences and system synergy.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> This has absolutely nothing to do with the GOTL,but a couple members here have PM'd me asking my thoughts on the Hifiman Jade 2 e-stat system,so here it is. Enjoy.....Oh and @2359glenn  please watch and consider an e-stat amp




Next year need design time.
Working on a 8 watt per channel OTL amp for Zach now.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Too funny - I do own an HD201, but did not think those are "hard to drive" or "insensitive"... never tried to plug them to my GOTL thinking the impedance is WAY too low for OTL amp.
> I actually use them when testing new tubes on my Lyr 3 and Liquid Platinum


LOL
But I have to qualify-when I said “insensitive “ I just meant that it won’t break from a loud pop......
The high end headphones are more vulnerable to blowing out a driver from unwanted pops and explosive sounds.


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Henry I have an amp that can use 6F8Gs for driver and output duties.
> One of my NU round plates is noisy as a driver and quiet as output on that amp.
> 
> In my other amps the noisy NU is a quiet driver.
> ...






So true, a quite tube in one amp can be noisy in another, or even when just switching sockets.



No reason to terrible bad Starvos. Everyone should realize that there are many different things that will effect how the tube may sound in your system.

I see some people are able to make a decision if they like a tube or not with the first song they here.....sounds crazy to me, but I do not deny they can.
Hell sometimes I will listen to a combo for a couple of months , only to find out that, I really don't like this combo with this particular album or the like.

There are those tubes that are game changers, but for the most part, just like with headphones, what you gain in one area, you lose in another.
I love the sound of tubes so much though....I can honestly listen to most any and be fairly content.

One thing I have come to realize, if you are listening to digital music...the dac does indeed make a difference, much more so than I ever initially imagined.
I guess it is true, the chain is only as good as the weakest link.


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> So true, a quite tube in one amp can be noisy in another, or even when just switching sockets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Joe is this love at first sight!!!!!!!!

Yes the source is a critical item that's why I emphasise the term System Synergy when I talk about sound.


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Joe is this love at first sight!!!!!!!!
> 
> Yes the source is a critical item that's why I emphasise the term System Synergy when I talk about sound.




Ha ha...yes, "love at first sight" is a great way to explain it.

Like the beautiful girl you see and just have to ask out.....then at dinner you realize that you can't stand that laugh and you wish she would chew with her mouth closed


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> Ha ha...yes, "love at first sight" is a great way to explain it.
> 
> Like the beautiful girl you see and just have to ask out.....then at dinner you realize that you can't stand that laugh and you wish she would chew with her mouth closed



That's right.......say no more......


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> Next year need design time.
> Working on a 8 watt per channel OTL amp for Zach now.



Woah...... wait a minute here.. 8w OTL?? Now that would be really interesting!


----------



## mordy (May 9, 2019)

Hi Whirlwind,
Here is a long read about fake tubes; a little unnerving, to say the least.
https://jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/index.htm
And I hope that you do not have any of the tubes mentioned at the end of the above post......


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Working on a 8 watt per channel OTL amp for Zach now.


Don't you need some special permit from the DOE for something like that?!


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> So true, a quite tube in one amp can be noisy in another, or even when just switching sockets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Time for rolling DACs!!


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Whirlwind,
> Here is a long read about fake tubes; a little unnerving, to say the least.
> https://jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/index.htm
> And I hope that you do not have any of the tubes mentioned at the end of the above post......



I don't use any of the tubes mentioned hope you don't ether.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> I don't use any of the tubes mentioned hope you don't ether.


Don't worry, I don't have any of those radioactive tubes... There are lots of things that were discovered to be dangerous to your health, but the risks were not known when production started.
Remember early luminous watches?





They were painted with Radium and it took decades to realize the danger.


----------



## UntilThen

Ulysses is coming home.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> Ulysses is coming home.



I'd prep a welcome home whisky haha


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> I'd prep a welcome home whisky haha



It will be the start of my next 10,000 posts may the 5th Element help you all. 

What’s more I just bought a top of the line Sansui au alpha 907mr made of gold !

Now gimme that 20 years old whisky.


----------



## 2359glenn

The driver tubes #210s in my 300B amps are radioactive the filaments are thorated tungsten.
No worry I am not going to eat them.
They are the tubes in my avatar.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Hi Whirlwind,
> Here is a long read about fake tubes; a little unnerving, to say the least.
> https://jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/index.htm
> And I hope that you do not have any of the tubes mentioned at the end of the above post......




The poor guy running the tube shredder...


----------



## UntilThen

This is in response to @ewwgin question about whether to get the GOTL or the GEL3N amp. Short answer is to get both. 

Well I have not heard the GEL3N but it should be fabulous from the few feedback that I get privately of people I trust, that's the general consensus.

Again on the question of whether to get the GOTL with tube rectifier or hexfred. If you are curious and have a strong compulsion to get the right tone to the infinite degree, then go with tube rectifier. If you just want to sit back and enjoy your music - like I'm doing now with my Sansui because there's no tubes to roll    .... then go with hexfred. Either way you won't be disappointed.

Now what tubes to buy? If I had to start over again, I'd just go with 6 x 6bx7gt - if you can get 6 or more good NOS ones. Then spend your money on a few good drivers. The drivers I would recommend are:-

1. Mullard ECC35
2. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
3. Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp, or 12SN7GT bgrp.
4. Mullard ECC31
5. c3g

Aside from that, get a pair of 6as7 or Svetlana 6h13 and Mullard 6080. 

That should do. Of course that's coming from me. You will get other opinions from others.

When I get Ulysses home, I'll have to have a really good listen again. Right now my brain is burn in to the sound of Sansui AU-717. Tomorrow morning, I'll be going to pick up my Alpha 907mr and have a listen to the seller's incredible collection of vintage amps with Diatone ds-2000 and Yamaha NS1000 speakers.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
If , and when you get the itch to roll more tubes, I think that you will be surprised at the capabilities of the GOTL in three driver mode. In addition, you do not have to spend a lot of money on this configuration to get excellent sound.


----------



## UntilThen

My take on combining drivers is the same as for combining powers. Initially inspiring but there after the thrill is gone with a lost of purity. Once you get into that mode, your combination possibilities are as numerous as the Rubik's cube. You'll be rolling like there's no tomorrow instead of listening to music. Don't think it's Glenn's intention for the drivers to be combined when he provided the single 6sn7 and dual c3g initially but whatever floats people's boat I guess.

I'm definitely moving off endless rolling and spending time instead on listening to music.

Btw I've tried those combinations briefly. Both drivers and powers.


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> Ulysses is coming home.



Good riddance! 

Now Glenn can get started on my amp...


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Good riddance!
> 
> Now Glenn can get started on my amp...



Don't worry. Glenn has farmed out amp building to me. I'll be building your OTL with a special tweak.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Don't worry. Glenn has farmed out amp building to me. I'll be building your OTL with a special tweak.


A GOTL with different accent? Interesting!


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Don't worry. Glenn has farmed out amp building to me. I'll be building your OTL with a special tweak.



What is that tweak?  I am afrade to ask.


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> What is that tweak?  I am afrade to ask.



The tubes mount clockwise instead of counter-clockwise.

(Coriolis effect joke!)


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> What is that tweak?  I am afrade to ask.



When I have the prototype I'll show you. It will be ground breaking and sky opening. 

But you have to provide warranty support.


----------



## 2359glenn

A grill to cook weenies over the 6AS7s


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> It will be the start of my next 10,000 posts may the 5th Element help you all.
> 
> What’s more I just bought a top of the line Sansui au alpha 907mr made of gold !
> 
> Now gimme that 20 years old whisky.


Hi UT,
What about  an AU-111?


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy check out this.
http://www.sansui.us/issues_AU111vsAL907MR.htm

That’s why I got the 907MR. 

Have not heard the AU-111 but the 907MR is superb now in my home.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Hey friends,

I have some tubes that have radio interfence and also some that hum. 

Y’all have any tips for both problems?

It’s my 6bx7’s and c3g’s


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Mordy check out this.
> http://www.sansui.us/issues_AU111vsAL907MR.htm
> 
> That’s why I got the 907MR.
> ...


This is the post that gave me that information......


----------



## whirlwind

Happy Mothers Day to all of the Mothers out there.


  

A 5 cd set that has great sound quality...I am on the third cd now...great stuff.

Oh, and this 4 volt GEC U18/20 rectifier is fantastic.


----------



## mordy

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> Hey friends,
> 
> I have some tubes that have radio interfence and also some that hum.
> 
> ...


Since you are speaking of RFI I take it that you have tried to eliminate or move away RFI sources such as portable phones, other pieces of electric equipment, fluorescent light fixtures etc etc. 
The 6BX7 tubes are tricky to match up so that they are quiet - you may have to try several more tubes in addition to the six I assume that you are using in order to get a quiet bunch. Sometimes just changing the positions of the tubes helps.
Re hum some people have reported success in eliminating it by using self fusing silicone tape in a tight band around the the metal enclosure or tube.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> This is the post that gave me that information......



It's the golden age of audio and references to tube amp and vinyl will always be made. Designers will try to make solid state amps sound like tube amp and in digital converters, there's always the desire to capture the musicality of vinyl sound.

That's not to stereotype tube amp sound though. Not all tube amps sound lush, romantic and with bloom. Some are agile and fast, with great clarity and details which is my preference.... at times. I like the variety. Sometimes I like the lushness and bloom.


----------



## Monsterzero

Theres a pair of Bendix 6080 WB for a very good price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/293084874949?ul_noapp=true

Im saving up for some 5998s so I have to pass unfortunately. Hope another Glenn owner can use these.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Theres a pair of Bendix 6080 WB for a very good price.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/293084874949?ul_noapp=true
> 
> Im saving up for some 5998s so I have to pass unfortunately. Hope another Glenn owner can use these.



Been looking for a pair. Thanks!


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Theres a pair of Bendix 6080 WB for a very good price.





Phantaminum said:


> Been looking for a pair. Thanks!


Never heard of Bendix... what's so special about them?  (I am using Philips 6080WC NOS that I really like, recommended by @zach915m )


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

mordy said:


> Since you are speaking of RFI I take it that you have tried to eliminate or move away RFI sources such as portable phones, other pieces of electric equipment, fluorescent light fixtures etc etc.
> The 6BX7 tubes are tricky to match up so that they are quiet - you may have to try several more tubes in addition to the six I assume that you are using in order to get a quiet bunch. Sometimes just changing the positions of the tubes helps.
> Re hum some people have reported success in eliminating it by using self fusing silicone tape in a tight band around the the metal enclosure or tube.


I have tried to move it away as much as possible but “sadly” my desk has a ton of electrical tech on it (PS4, Xbox, DAC, another amp, ect ect) I try to separate the OTL away from it but it’s only by a foot. I will try to move it about 3 feet away and see if that helps any. 

I will also try to change the slots that I put the 6bx7’s as well as you recommended. @Hansotek did that for his and seemed to get better results when changing placement. 

The tape is fascinating. It doesn’t seem that expensive ($4 at Lowe’s?) so I will try that as well. 

Thanks for the tips!


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Never heard of Bendix... what's so special about them?  (I am using Philips 6080WC NOS that I really like, recommended by @zach915m )



This is what Untilthen said about them


"At that price it's worth buying it to experience the Bendix 6080wb sound. 
It's one of the top 4 power tubes in my ranking. The other 3 being Gec 6as7g, 5998, and Gec 6080.

Bendix 6080 sound is more warm than neutral. Maybe even slightly dark but the bass weight is exceptional and a great soundstage. It's a great variation to your tube collection."

Since im heavily invested into ZMF headphones and pretty $ challenged I had to prioritize the 5998s over a dark/warm tube.

FWIW every other Bendix 6080wb ive seen have gone for at least 400.00,sometimes double that,so 125.00 was a heck of deal in this market. 

Glad @Phantaminum got them. Let us know how they sound.


----------



## whirlwind

The Bendix 6080 power tubes are definitely some of the best power tubes for the OTL

Really nice bass from these.


----------



## lukeap69

Before acquiring GEC 6AS7G, TS 7236 and 5998, I thought Bendix 6080 graphite plate were the best 6AS7/6080 I have heard. One word that I can associate to them is authoritative. I just have too many great tubes to alternate so mine don't get much play time as they deserve but they are great tubes on GOTL


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> Before acquiring GEC 6AS7G, TS 7236 and 5998, I thought Bendix 6080 graphite plate were the best 6AS7/6080 I have heard. One word that I can associate to them is authoritative. I just have too many great tubes to alternate so mine don't get much play time as they deserve but they are great tubes on GOTL




The only power tubes that I never acquired, but thought I may want was the Tung Sol 7236.

I seem to like most Tung Sol tubes as I do British tubes.

BTW nice avatar Arnold.


----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> The only power tubes that I never acquired, but thought I may want was the Tung Sol 7236.
> 
> I seem to like most Tung Sol tubes as I do British tubes.
> 
> BTW nice avatar Arnold.



It’s a great tube. I love the Verites with these and most drivers. It has the 5998 tonality, the image is more centered, bass is tight as you can get from a power tube, and it’s fast. For bright headphones I wouldn’t recommend them but with warmer headphones they pair up extremely well. Compared to other drivers they can be found for a reasonable $40 for a single.


----------



## whirlwind (May 12, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> It’s a great tube. I love the Verites with these and most drivers. It has the 5998 tonality, the image is more centered, bass is tight as you can get from a power tube, and it’s fast. For bright headphones I wouldn’t recommend them but with warmer headphones they pair up extremely well. Compared to other drivers they can be found for a reasonable $40 for a single.



You mean compared to other powers.
I may have to get them then, I am thinking a nice combo with the Atticus which I love with the GOTL


----------



## Phantaminum (May 12, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> You mean compared to other powers.
> I may have to get them then, I am thinking a nice combo with the Atticus which I love with the GOTL



Correct, I meant compared to most other power tubes. I think they would play very well with the Atticus.


----------



## UntilThen

Bendix are good for workouts. Try it.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> You mean compared to other powers.
> I may have to get them then, I am thinking a nice combo with the Atticus which I love with the GOTL





whirlwind said:


> The Bendix 6080 power tubes are definitely some of the best power tubes for the OTL
> 
> Really nice bass from these.



The Bendix tubes with the graphite plates are very heavy (I feel like I am holding a hand grenade in my hand) and need at least 1/2 hour to warm up.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> This is what Untilthen said about them
> 
> 
> "At that price it's worth buying it to experience the Bendix 6080wb sound.
> ...





whirlwind said:


> The Bendix 6080 power tubes are definitely some of the best power tubes for the OTL
> 
> Really nice bass from these.





lukeap69 said:


> Before acquiring GEC 6AS7G, TS 7236 and 5998, I thought Bendix 6080 graphite plate were the best 6AS7/6080 I have heard. One word that I can associate to them is authoritative. I just have too many great tubes to alternate so mine don't get much play time as they deserve but they are great tubes on GOTL



Thanks - will know for next time!
I actually saw them early this morning, but never heard of this brand so moved on... At least a good guy, and one of us, ended up with them!


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Theres a pair of Bendix 6080 WB for a very good price.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/293084874949?ul_noapp=true
> 
> Im saving up for some 5998s so I have to pass unfortunately. Hope another Glenn owner can use these.



There are a number of Bendix variants as below:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-91#post-10625059

It is not clear from the pictures in the above eBay listing if the two tubes have the same construction. That is, the metal spring retainers are different and it is not clear if the left tube has a slot in the graphite plate. And I should note that some have noticed slight sonic differences between versions.


----------



## attmci (May 12, 2019)

gibosi said:


> There are a number of Bendix variants as below:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-91#post-10625059
> 
> It is not clear from the pictures in the above eBay listing if the two tubes have the same construction. That is, the metal spring retainers are different and it is not clear if the left tube has a slot in the graphite plate. And I should note that some have noticed slight sonic differences between versions.


They all sounds very similar to my ears. Nice power tubes for a basshead.  Best for cold winter (it generates a lot of heat). Build like a tank but some tubes still can be micro phonic for amps. 

I saw that pair too. Good price and congrats to




*Phantaminum*


----------



## attmci

Anyone like a good rectifier?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2235067896...99&_trkparms=gh1g=I223506789628.N36.S1.R1.TR2


----------



## 2359glenn

Not good like a WE422A


----------



## UntilThen

Ulysses sets sail for Sydney on Tuesday. Bon voyage!


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Not good like a WE422A



Given that the Western Electric 274B can provide at most 225ma it is not suitable for use in the GOTL. Generally, a minimum of 250ma is required when running 6AS7G and similar output tubes.

https://www.westernelectric.com/spec_sheets/274B.pdf

On the other hand, the WE422A can provide as much as 400ma which makes it "king of the hill" (to say nothing about how either of these might sound...)

https://www.westernelectric.com/static/library/specifications/tubes/422A.pdf


----------



## gibosi

Realized that I hadn't rolled a pair of TS 7236 in years. With WIRAG EL3N and a Holland-made GZ34. First impressions, I think I prefer TS 6BX7, but will keep these in for a while to better understand what the differences are...


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Realized that I hadn't rolled a pair of TS 7236 in years. With WIRAG EL3N and a Holland-made GZ34. First impressions, I think I prefer TS 6BX7, but will keep these in for a while to better understand what the differences are...



I never liked the 7236 in this amp.
It was the second output tube I tried bought them and tried them for 1/2 hour and sold them.


----------



## whirlwind

The main reason why I never chased down a set of Tung Sol 7236 is that I had multiple pairs of my favorite power tubes and did not figure they would ever see much time in my amp.

I wanted to focus mainly on driver tubes at that point. I could live with about 4 sets of power tubes and just change the sound with different drivers.


----------



## whirlwind

attmci said:


> They all sounds very similar to my ears. Nice power tubes for a basshead.  Best for cold winter (it generates a lot of heat). Build like a tank but some tubes still can be micro phonic for amps.
> 
> I saw that pair too. Good price and congrats to
> 
> ...




Yes they do run on the warm side....but nothing compared to the 6336 power tubes


----------



## lukeap69

Contrary to Glenn's taste/preference, I liked the TS 7236 quite a bit with the Senn HD650. I thought they sounded similar to 5998 but less refined and authoritative.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

gibosi said:


> Given that the Western Electric 274B can provide at most 225ma it is not suitable for use in the GOTL. Generally, a minimum of 250ma is required when running 6AS7G and similar output tubes.
> 
> https://www.westernelectric.com/spec_sheets/274B.pdf
> 
> ...



Excited wait for the amp


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> Yes they do run on the warm side....but nothing compared to the 6336 power tubes


I always curious about the 6336 vs 5998 in sound signature.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I always curious about the 6336 vs 5998 in sound signature.



Not even close. 5998 is much better. I don't know how the notion of 6336 being close to 5998 come about.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Excited wait for the amp



At the height of my tube frenzy, I'd have bought this GEC rectifier but now I'm just not moving. 

It's local and would be cheap shipping wise.

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/284342-fs-gec-u52-curved-brown-base-tube-rectifier/


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> At the height of my tube frenzy, I'd have bought this GEC rectifier but now I'm just not moving.
> 
> It's local and would be cheap shipping wise.
> 
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/284342-fs-gec-u52-curved-brown-base-tube-rectifier/



Sigh.. I know the frenzy all too well too lol.


----------



## UntilThen

Looks like you're all prepared. 

What about a GZ34 metal base?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Didn't make the cut off before i decided I will wait for the amp to reach me first before buying more tubes haha


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> I never liked the 7236 in this amp.
> It was the second output tube I tried bought them and tried them for 1/2 hour and sold them.


Ditto here - could not muster much enthusiasm for the TS 7236; it always sounded very bland/flat and solid state like to me.
However, I would not discount that it might sound good in a specific combination.....


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Ditto here - could not muster much enthusiasm for the TS 7236; it always sounded very bland/flat and solid state like to me.
> However, I would not discount that it might sound good in a specific combination.....



I agree. It can sound dry and doesn’t have the expanse as some the 6AS7G/5998 tubes. Toss in a Russian driver tube with good reverb/stage width and that handles most of its fault while you’re still benefit from the speed, tone, and timbre. If it only layered  as well and the sound stage went as deep as the 5998s it would be top tier. But then again the tube would be $250+ a pair instead.


----------



## Velozity

Phantaminum said:


> I agree. It can sound dry and doesn’t have the expanse as some the 6AS7G/5998 tubes. Toss in a Russian driver tube with good reverb/stage width and that handles most of its fault while you’re still benefit from the speed, tone, and timbre. If it only layered  as well and the sound stage went as deep as the 5998s it would be top tier. But then again the tube would be $250+ a pair instead.




I respect that but YMMV.  In my Audiotailor Jade OTL I much prefer the 7236 over the 5998 when paired with a warm Mullard driver (CV4004 M8137).  As I said in another thread, it's all about the synergy.  IMO, the 7236 belongs in the same tier as the 5998.  I bought a few pairs so I can try them in my GOTL when it arrives, and compare them to the GEC 6AS7G.  I'm also collecting various 6SN7 drivers so that I can find that magic combo again.


----------



## whirlwind (May 13, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Not even close. 5998 is much better. I don't know how the notion of 6336 being close to 5998 come about.




Same here. I basically used the 6336 just to get more current to my planar headphones, but then I found out with experimentation that I liked the planars better with the 5998 and the Bendix 6080 as those tubes had better overall sound to me. So that and the fact that they run so hot, I sold mine to another head-fier who wanted them.


----------



## UntilThen

Haha I must say I smile when I read the impressions on 7236. It just goes to show that there are individual preferences and as mentioned, it's about synergy with the other tubes, source and headphone and if you're fanatic enough, cables, power cord, fuses and the air in your listening area. 

Alright enough of sarcasms. What do I think of the 7236?

I think it's Usain Bolt doing the 100 metres in 9.58 secs. I'll be lucky if I can do that in 30 secs.

5998 on the other hand is like Mohammed Ali in the ring, dancing like a butterfly and stinging like a bee. Mind you, his punch is nothing like a butterfly or a bee. More like a sled hammer.

So what do you prefer to watch? The 100 metres dash or the heavy weight boxing championship match? Me I like both but I'm more partial to 5998.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Haha I must say I smile when I read the impressions on 7236. It just goes to show that there are individual preferences and as mentioned, it's about synergy with the other tubes, source and headphone and if you're fanatic enough, cables, power cord, fuses and the air in your listening area.
> 
> Alright enough of sarcasms. What do I think of the 7236?
> 
> ...



"There are individual preferences and as mentioned, it's about synergy with the other tubes, source and headphone, cables, power cord, fuses etc...." 

I would like to add another tube truth (TT) based on experience: The same tube can sound different in different amps. As an example, the Russian 6H13C (and derivatives) sounds great in the GOTL, but in another amp the owner may write them off as not worth owning.
I think Rosgr63 said that the way a tube sounds in an amp depends on the design of the operating parameters of that amp.
All this notwithstanding, it seems to me that some tubes will sound good in most settings, or, at least, a certain select group of top tier tubes will sound good in almost any amp.
Is it possible that there is more variation in "likes' with power tubes? Somehow, it seems to me that there is more of a consensus regarding the best driver tubes than the best power tubes. As an example, tubes like the TS BGRP and Syl 6SN7A/W get almost universal acclaim whereas the debate goes on with power tubes such as the 7236, 5998, 6336, GEC 6AS7 etc etc.
Or is it all about synergy?


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Syl 6SN7A/W get almost universal acclaim whereas the debate goes on with power tubes such as the 7236, 5998, 6336, GEC 6AS7 etc etc.
> Or is it all about synergy?



Perhaps this is blasphemy,but I prefer the 5998 vs the GEC 6SA7G for the Verite. The GECs sound great,but the 5998 is on another level IMO for the Verite.


----------



## UntilThen

Not a blasphemy. Both are great tubes but very different tonally. 5998 is more vivid and has that Borocca bounce.


----------



## UntilThen

That's why I kept this pair.


----------



## gibosi

And following these discussions, swapped out the TS 7236 and rolled in a pair of 5998, both dated the 16th week of 1962, but leaving in the Holland-made GZ34 and WIRAG ELN3. Of course, my ears and gear, but these 5998s do indeed make the 7236 seem rather bland. I had forgotten how good the 5998s can sound.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> That's why I kept this pair.



I will grab a pair of 5998s in June. Even though earlier in this thread I vowed to use the GECs,I almost feel guilty somehow using them perpetually. The 5998s arent quite in hen's teeth territory(yet)


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I will grab a pair of 5998s in June. Even though earlier in this thread I vowed to use the GECs,I almost feel guilty somehow using them perpetually. The 5998s arent quite in hen's teeth territory(yet)



Can I entice you with this gold 9999 tube?


----------



## 2359glenn

Ulysses is in the Tacoma to be taken to the post tomorrow.


----------



## UntilThen

I had no idea what and who is a Tacoma but now that I've seen it, I want one too.

You're too trendy Glenn !


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Not even close. 5998 is much better. I don't know how the notion of 6336 being close to 5998 come about.


Thanks Matt. Hope you will get your amp and enjoy the music soon. I love my LCD-3.


----------



## 2359glenn

I love my Tacoma looks smart with the hood scoop 4 wheel drive can go anywhere with it.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Thanks Matt. Hope you will get your amp and enjoy the music soon. I love my LCD-3.



Attmci, my LCD-3f look at me everyday with this expression.


----------



## UntilThen

Now I'm thinking of a HiFiMan He6se. Any good? Drive it with speakers tap.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Now I'm thinking of a HiFiMan He6se. Any good? Drive it with speakers tap.



Get a EL3N amp it will drive them.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Can I entice you with this gold 9999 tube?


Hi UT,
How does the gold Sansui sound (in tube speak)? 
From what I understand they were made for the Japanese market which uses 100V electricity. How do you power it?


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Now I'm thinking of a HiFiMan He6se. Any good? Drive it with speakers tap.



Havent heard the se,but used to own the original HE-6. Drove it direct from taps w/ no resistors from my Sansui 881...sounded great,and then two drivers failed,so i had them fixed and sold it.
I love Hifiman's sound. Their QC,not so much.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> How does the gold Sansui sound (in tube speak)?
> From what I understand they were made for the Japanese market which uses 100V electricity. How do you power it?



I bought a power station. No I did not. Can’t afford that.

I bought a step down isolated transformer for Japanese equipment. 240v to 100v. A 1.5 kva model.

The 907MR is the 2nd last model of Sansui high end Alpha integrated amps. It’s an audiophile sound of clarity, details and a slight hint of tube tone at it’s best. Highs are clear and not harsh. Midrange is it’s magic and the low frequencies are impactful and middle earth deep. This is with both headphones and my tower speakers. You should see the internals. It’s a work of art.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I bought a power station. No I did not. Can’t afford that.
> 
> I bought a step down isolated transformer for Japanese equipment. 240v to 100v. A 1.5 kva model.
> 
> The 907MR is the 2nd last model of Sansui high end Alpha integrated amps. It’s an audiophile sound of clarity, details and a slight hint of tube tone at it’s best. Highs are clear and not harsh. Midrange is it’s magic and the low frequencies are impactful and middle earth deep. This is with both headphones and my tower speakers. You should see the internals. It’s a work of art.











Is this the one you bought?


----------



## UntilThen

That’s the one but we don’t want to flood this thread with Sansui.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I will grab a pair of 5998s in June. Even though earlier in this thread I vowed to use the GECs,I almost feel guilty somehow using them perpetually. The 5998s arent quite in hen's teeth territory(yet)



I feel the same way with my GEC 6AS7G tubes. I feel guilty for using them all of the time.  I use mine on what I call "special occasions" and only when I am going to kick back away from my pc for a night of undivided attention.
I love the GEC 6AS7G tubes, but I love the 5998 tubes equally as well if not more and I have more of them. They pair well with many different driver tubes also.

I loved the 5998 tubes upon first listen, my first thoughts were..."now there is some authority"

I know Glenn does not recommend these tubes as he has had them kill a pair of headphones and they can be finicky....but so can the bendix 6080 tubes.
I allow both of these power tubes a little bit of warm up time before plugging in my headphones.


----------



## whirlwind (May 14, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> I love my Tacoma looks smart with the hood scoop 4 wheel drive can go anywhere with it.




We have owned three Toyota's , never a truck....all three have been at the top of our favorite list as far as dependability...they were all outstanding and we will probably get another when we retire and want to travel a bit.
A fellow I work with has a Tundra truck and he loves it.

My favorite was my 1984 Toyota Supra...the color was called Root Beer...looked like this one


----------



## UntilThen

I'm going to get a Subaru Forester 2019 and run it on tubes.


----------



## gibosi

I've owned several Toyota's, yes very good cars, but currently I have an old (2001) Chevy Silverado and I will get another one if I live long enough. lol


----------



## attmci (May 14, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Havent heard the se,but used to own the original HE-6. Drove it direct from taps w/ no resistors from my Sansui 881...sounded great,and then two drivers failed,so i had them fixed and sold it.
> I love Hifiman's sound. Their QC,not so much.


Hi, I saw someone posted a 5998 wanted here and got a cheap pair within a couple of days. You may want to give it a try.

https://www.head-fi.org/forums/cables-speakers-accessories-for-sale-trade.6553/

Oh, no, I just noticed that you have a competitor who is also looking for good 5998s. Good luck!!


----------



## mordy (May 14, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> That’s the one but we don’t want to flood this thread with Sansui.


Hi UT,
Just testing my detective skills......
And I am driving a Subaru Forester in Pearl Blue.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Get a EL3N amp it will drive them.



I'm not in a rush yet having just gotten a Sansui Alpha amp but when the time comes, after I have settled in to the new contract in the nation's capital, I'm thinking perhaps a 2a3 or EL34 se triode connected. That will sound great with both speakers and headphones. Preferably with a bit more watts so I'm not limited to just high efficiency speakers. 

It's interesting that in the video, they are using 6sl7 + 2a3 and 12ax7 + EL34. What are your thoughts on these drivers with those power tubes?


----------



## attmci

The clear top 5998 has been in the hen's teeth territory for a while. There are plenty of 5998s, however, seems everyone is collecting multiple pairs now....


----------



## Monsterzero (May 15, 2019)

Anyone know who made these 6SN7? Worth anything?


----------



## Wes S

Monsterzero said:


> Anyone know who made these 6SN7? Worth anything?


Those are actually made by Westinghouse, and if they had d getters, they would be worth a lot, over on the Lyr 3 thread.  The Westinghouse D getters, are one of the best tubes, in the Lyr 3.  They have a well balanced sound.


----------



## Monsterzero

Wes S said:


> Those are actually made by Westinghouse, and if they had d getters, they would be worth a lot, over on the Lyr 3 thread.  The Westinghouse D getters, are one of the best tubes, in the Lyr 3.  They have a well balanced sound.



@gibosi are these worth 38.00 for the pair?


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> @gibosi are these worth 38.00 for the pair?



I don't own any of these so I can say how they sound....


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Anyone know who made these 6SN7? Worth anything?



I have one of these it is quiet and sounds very good but I paid $1 for it a year ago on E-Bay.
Mostly I use it for testing new amps because it is so quiet.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> I have one of these it is quiet and sounds very good but I paid $1 for it a year ago on E-Bay.
> Mostly I use it for testing new amps because it is so quiet.





Monsterzero said:


> @gibosi are these worth 38.00 for the pair?


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Westinghouse+6SN7&_sacat=0
It appears to me that if you buy them as singles you could get them for 1/4 of the price incl shipping.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Westinghouse+6SN7&_sacat=0
> It appears to me that if you buy them as singles you could get them for 1/4 of the price incl shipping.



I dont need another 6SN7. I was just curious as to who made the tube. I never hear about Westinghouse tubes,so I assumed it was a re-brand.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I dont need another 6SN7. I was just curious as to who made the tube. I never hear about Westinghouse tubes,so I assumed it was a re-brand.


Westinghouse is a very old manufacturer. At some point it had to divest itself from making vacuum tubes due to legal matters. There was a long hiatus in tube manufacturing in the late 40s to 50s if I remember correctly and then they started to manufacture them again, but at that time it was late in the game and transistors took over.
I tried to look up the information but could not find it ATM. In those years that they could not make their own they used a lot of rebranded ones from Sylvania and GE among others.
I am sure that gibosi could fill in some details.


----------



## JazzVinyl

After months of sheer delight with 6N7GT/EL32 driver triplet and a pair of 6H13C's....

I am trying Mazda ECC804 and a pair of Mullard 6080's...

Tunes:  I went gaga for a Joni Mitchell tune called "The Tea Leaf Prophecy" off the 1988 "Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm" LP.  I played the vinyl many times and studied it intently.  It really moves me.  The lyrics are profound, paints pictures for me, and transcends time....I am enthralled with the creative genius that it took to dream up the lyrics, work up the musical medium to deliver them with, and the "warm pillow" arrangement that she put together.  

Check it out...


Cheers, all....


----------



## rosgr63

I like these Westinghouse they sound good to me in my systems.


----------



## gibosi (May 16, 2019)

mordy said:


> Westinghouse is a very old manufacturer. At some point it had to divest itself from making vacuum tubes due to legal matters. There was a long hiatus in tube manufacturing in the late 40s to 50s if I remember correctly and then they started to manufacture them again, but at that time it was late in the game and transistors took over.
> I tried to look up the information but could not find it ATM. In those years that they could not make their own they used a lot of rebranded ones from Sylvania and GE among others.
> I am sure that gibosi could fill in some details.



Up until about 1930 Westinghouse was a major manufacturer of vacuum tubes. But as Mordy points out, in 1932, as part of a consent decree, Westinghouse and GE were required to exit the radio vacuum tube business. And while they continued to to work on developing and providing tubes for non-radio industrial applications, such as motor control, railway signaling and medical applications, compared to the radio business, these endeavors were not a significant source of income, and multiple large vacuum tube factories were no longer necessary. In the end, most of their factories were dismantled or repurposed, and neither company was a major player in radio or television again until after WWII.

GE literally jumped back into the business by purchasing Ken Rad, but Westinghouse decided to restart vacuum tube manufacturing from scratch and it wasn't until late in the game, the late 1950's and early 1960's that they were able to get up to any speed. They did in fact begin to manufacture the 6SN7GTA, 6SN7GTB and 12SN7GTA in 1961. But again they were too late in getting back in the game and solid state soon took over.

Here is a their electron data book from 1965.

https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Westinghouse/Westinghouse_ElectronicTubeHandbook_ET-1482_1965.pdf


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Up until about 1930 Westinghouse was a major manufacturer of vacuum tubes. But as Mordy points out, in 1932, as part of a consent decree, Westinghouse and GE were required to exit the radio vacuum tube business. And while they continued to to work on developing and providing tubes for non-radio industrial applications, such as motor control, railway signaling and medical applications, compared to the radio business, these endeavors were not a significant source of income, and multiple large vacuum tube factories were no longer necessary. In the end, most of their factories were dismantled or repurposed, and neither company was a major player in radio or television again until after WWII.
> 
> GE literally jumped back into the business by purchasing Ken Rad, but Westinghouse decided to restart vacuum tube manufacturing from scratch and it wasn't until late in the game, the late 1950's and early 1960's that they were able to get up to any speed. They did in fact begin to manufacture the 6SN7GTA, 6SN7GTB and 12SN7GTA in 1961. But again they were too late in getting back in the game and solid state soon took over.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I dont need another 6SN7. I was just curious as to who made the tube. I never hear about Westinghouse tubes,so I assumed it was a re-brand.


Hi Monsterzero,
Dept of cheap thrills or the $1 tube:

Since you have the GOTL with the 6/12/25V switch you could try this:
12SN7GT Westinghouse tube - $5 shipped. And since shipping is around $4 we end up with a $1 tube lol. It is listed among the tubes in the first item on this page:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Westinghouse+12SN7&_sacat=0
Scroll down the drop down menu to find the Westinghouse for $5.

I just looked into my 12V-25V box and found one Westinghouse Reliatron 12SN7GT tube. The date code is  5R13 - maybe 13th week of 1955......As Glenn says, it is very quiet and sounds good.


----------



## Monsterzero (May 16, 2019)

I just bought a NOS pair of TS 5998s from Stavros. I think im pretty much done buying tubes. I will still keep my eye out for a reasonably priced WE 422a,and I'd like to find some Tung Sol 7802s,just because other members raved about them in another thread,but other than those,and replacing tubes I already own that may die in the future,im finished.

Then im onto getting an end game DAC,pretty set on the Denafrips Terminator,and then I can focus on other hobbies,such as aquarium keeping...until ZMF comes out with a planar.


----------



## Wes S (May 16, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I just bought a NOS pair of TS 5998s from Stavros. I think im pretty much done buying tubes. I will still keep my eye out for a reasonably priced WE 422a,and I'd like to find some Tung Sol 7802s,just because other members raved about them in another thread,but other than those,and replacing tubes I already own that may die in the future,im finished.
> 
> Then im onto getting an end game DAC,pretty set on the Denafrips Terminator,and then I can focus on other hobbies,such as aquarium keeping...until ZMF comes out with a planar.


Your last sentence coming to life, would be incredible.  I finally got my Ori dialed in, and it is stunning.  I can only imagine how good, the next planar could be. . .


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> I just bought a NOS pair of TS 5998s from Stavros. I think im pretty much done buying tubes. I will still keep my eye out for a reasonably priced WE 422a,and I'd like to find some Tung Sol 7802s,just because other members raved about them in another thread,but other than those,and replacing tubes I already own that may die in the future,im finished.
> 
> Then im onto getting an end game DAC,pretty set on the Denafrips Terminator,and then I can focus on other hobbies,such as aquarium keeping...until ZMF comes out with a planar.



I looked up a few pictures of the Tung Sol 7802. The build reminds me of the Tung Sol 6080s. Let us know what you think when you grab a pair.

I’m breaking in the Bendix. It does a fantastic job with instrument separation.


----------



## Monsterzero (May 16, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> I looked up a few pictures of the Tung Sol 7802. The build reminds me of the Tung Sol 6080s. Let us know what you think when you grab a pair.
> 
> I’m breaking in the Bendix. It does a fantastic job with instrument separation.



Apparently theyre super rare. The member(forget who) added them to an eBay search and didnt get a match for over a year. Ive had my search open for approx 6 months,not a single tube has come up for sale....It might be awhile. 

Glad youre enjoying the Bendix. It was hard to not grab them,but im glad you got them.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I just bought a NOS pair of TS 5998s from Stavros. I think im pretty much done buying tubes. I will still keep my eye out for a reasonably priced WE 422a,and I'd like to find some Tung Sol 7802s,just because other members raved about them in another thread,but other than those,and replacing tubes I already own that may die in the future,im finished.
> 
> Then im onto getting an end game DAC,pretty set on the Denafrips Terminator,and then I can focus on other hobbies,such as aquarium keeping...until ZMF comes out with a planar.




You can absolutely 100% count me in if ZMF comes out with a planar!


----------



## whirlwind (May 17, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Your last sentence coming to life, would be incredible.  I finally got my Ori dialed in, and it is stunning.  I can only imagine how good, the next planar could be. . .




Imagine a planar from Zach with his own drivers.  what he did with the Fostex T50RP is really pretty darn incredible.
I listen to this headphone in the mornings every other week with the GEL3N and it is flipping incredible.  

In the mornings I rotate my closed cans each week  Ori/Atticus


----------



## mordy

I have spent a number of hours with the Honeywell 12SN7GT over two days. While I can't fault this tube on anything specific, I finally came to the conclusion what is missing as far as I am concerned.
This tube sounds good, but what is missing is the sparkle, energy and liveliness that comes with a top notch tube (combination); it sounds veiled and a little dull in comparison.
Some people claim that they can characterize the sound of a tube within a few minutes. I can't - it takes me time (unless the tube sounds very bad). 
My previous favorite combination has been in my amp for weeks without any desire to change or roll other tubes. The buzz about the Westinghouse 6SN7 motivated me to try it in the 12V version since I had it on hand.
But I am back to the previous setup and all is well......


----------



## gibosi

And I assume you believe that the Honeywell 12SN7GT was actually manufactured by Westinghouse?


----------



## attmci (May 18, 2019)

Good morning.


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks much Starvos.  I will give them a listen tonight and tomorrow night.  Much appreciated.
Things seem to ship from Greece to the USA faster than from one coast to the other in the USA sometimes.


----------



## rosgr63

Good morning Joe,

Thanks for letting me know for the smooth transaction and your trust.

Happy listening


----------



## 2359glenn (May 18, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Thanks much Starvos.  I will give them a listen tonight and tomorrow night.  Much appreciated.
> Things seem to ship from Greece to the USA faster than from one coast to the other in the USA sometimes.



Nice tubes !! That ECC32 should sound great.
The driver  circuit the ECC32 would be the better choice
Going to talk to Stavros in 15 minuets


----------



## rosgr63 (May 18, 2019)

10 minutes to countdown!!!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Nice tubes !! That ECC32 should sound great.
> The driver  circuit the ECC32 would be the better choice
> Going to talk to Stavros in 15 minuets




I am going to give it a good detailed listen tonight with the Atticus


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> I looked up a few pictures of the Tung Sol 7802. The build reminds me of the Tung Sol 6080s. Let us know what you think when you grab a pair.
> 
> I’m breaking in the Bendix. It does a fantastic job with instrument separation.




You got one heckava deal on these, especially at today's prices

It is a great power tube, I like the 5998 better, but this is no slouch and one of the top couple 6080 tubes that I have heard.
Great snag for the price.


----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> You got one heckava deal on these, especially at today's prices
> 
> It is a great power tube, I like the 5998 better, but this is no slouch and one of the top couple 6080 tubes that I have heard.
> Great snag for the price.



It's instrument separation is stellar compared to most power output tubes that I have. I feel it beats out the 5998s in this aspect but the 5998s pair better with many more tube types because it's more neutral than the Bendix. Also, you guys weren't kidding about it taking around 30 minutes for the tube to sound its best. 

I received a batch of Russian 6H5C (I really enjoy the 6H13Cs) and I'm currently testing them out. I found that the square getters have a different sound than the flying saucer getters. The square getters are more laid back and neutral compared to the flying saucer getters which have more upper treble and is more mid forward. I wonder with more burn in if they end up sounding like each other or will it stay the same.


----------



## whirlwind

Yeah, they can make pings and pops for awhile, and even be a bit microphonic, but 30 minutes in and its beautiful.
You have to wait a bit to get rewarded


----------



## whirlwind

The wife is shopping with her mother for about 4 hours....time to spend some time with ECC32

Cooking out later.




 

As you can see these two Bendix 6080 tubes have a different plate and the mica's are a little different.
 I bought these years ago as single tubes but found two that had most of their life left.

They pop and ping and are microphonic at first....30 min later I can pop the amp and all is well and quiet.


----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> The wife is shopping with her mother for about 4 hours....time to spend some time with ECC32
> 
> Cooking out later.
> 
> ...



ECC32 and Bendix 6080s, woo! You’re ears are in for a treat. Good way to spend a Saturday.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> As you can see these two Bendix 6080 tubes have a different plate and the mica's are a little different.
> I bought these years ago as single tubes but found two that had most of their life left.



My pair of Bendix 6080 have slotted solid graphite plates but aren't exactly identical but this just show that you don't need a matching pair to enjoy the Bendix 6080 sound.

ECC32 and Bendix 6080wb would be a warm lush sound. Ideal for those who like it this way.


----------



## heliosphann

whirlwind said:


> The wife is shopping with her mother for about 4 hours....time to spend some time with ECC32
> 
> Cooking out later.
> 
> ...



What are you cooking? I might come over... lol

I'll bring my Verite's and Aeolus.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> ECC32 and Bendix 6080s, woo! You’re ears are in for a treat. Good way to spend a Saturday.



Yes, this is a wonderful warmish and lush sound......with killer bass and the ECC32 being the same sound sig as the ECC31
This ECC32 is dead silent...got to love that.




UntilThen said:


> My pair of Bendix 6080 have slotted solid graphite plates but aren't exactly identical but this just show that you don't need a matching pair to enjoy the Bendix 6080 sound.
> 
> Indeed it is, the ECC31 & ECC32 definitely in my top three favs
> 
> ECC32 and Bendix 6080wb would be a warm lush sound. Ideal for those who like it this way.




Indeed it is, the ECC31 & ECC32 definitely in my top three favs






heliosphann said:


> What are you cooking? I might come over... lol
> 
> I'll bring my Verite's and Aeolus.




Well, it is hamburgers & hot dogs...but if you come over with those cans I can run back to the store


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Yes, this is a wonderful warmish and lush sound......with killer bass and the ECC32 being the same sound sig as the ECC31
> This ECC32 is dead silent...got to love that.
> 
> 
> ...



Lets make it a party I'll bring the beer. Bring all my phones have the same + the Auteur.
To bad you live so far away.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Lets make it a party I'll bring the beer. Bring all my phones have the same + the Auteur.
> To bad you live so far away.




Now that sounds like a heck of a good time!


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> Lets make it a party I'll bring the beer. Bring all my phones have the same + the Auteur.
> To bad you live so far away.



To bad you've got amps to build...


----------



## whirlwind

I am going to pop in the Chatham 6AS7G with the ECC35 tonight.

Those Bendix made my room warm...need to turn on AC for those


----------



## JazzVinyl

My Mazda ECC804/Mullard 6080 adventure is over.  I am back to my "proven best" driver triplet...
Visseaux 6N7GT and pair of EL32's in C3G sockets.  Am employing the Mullard 6080's as powers...

Stunning sound stage and realism...

Life is good


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> To bad you've got amps to build...



Yea to hot to do anything else 91 with high humidity summer in NC is to much and it is not summer yet.
So sit in AC and build amps.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Apparently theyre super rare. The member(forget who) added them to an eBay search and didnt get a match for over a year. Ive had my search open for approx 6 months,not a single tube has come up for sale....It might be awhile.
> 
> Glad youre enjoying the Bendix. It was hard to not grab them,but im glad you got them.



Yup, in 2.5 years, I had two Ebay hits, and they were within weeks of each other from the same seller.

As noted above, very similar in construction to the Tung Sol 6080, almost identical, some extra support rods in the 7802 and a much finer grid.  Transconductance of 20,000, amp factor of 9 for the 7802.  Not sure if they will have the same magic in the GOTL as the Crack(atwoa), but they are in my top 1-2 output tubes, the other being the 421A, MOV A1834 being a close third.

Here is the data sheet for the 7802: https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/077/7/7802.pdf

6080 on the left, 7802 on the right.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> And I assume you believe that the Honeywell 12SN7GT was actually manufactured by Westinghouse?


Hi Glenn,
Thanks for pointing out the typographical error. It really is a Westinghouse tube and I must have been reading something about Honeywell - I attribute all errors to my advanced age.......
Here is a picture:



This is a side getter tube with a D-shaped getter.



Tricky to get a picture of the getter hiding behind the getter flash. Is this the tube with the D getter people are talking about?




However, as JV is also mentioning, I am back to a three driver combination that IMHO outperforms other more conventional setups.


----------



## gibosi

I hope others with more experience with this tube will chime in here.....  But I can say that the picture of the Westinghouse 6SN7GTB posted recently had a top getter. And I have seen Westinghouse 12SN7GTA on eBay with that same top getter. On the other hand, the mica, plates and etching on yours looks the same as Westinghouse tubes with top getters, so perhaps Westinghouse manufactured this tube with side getters as well.


----------



## mordy (May 19, 2019)

gibosi said:


> I hope others with more experience with this tube will chime in here.....  But I can say that the picture of the Westinghouse 6SN7GTB posted recently had a top getter. And I have seen Westinghouse 12SN7GTA on eBay with that same top getter. On the other hand, the mica, plates and etching on yours looks the same as Westinghouse tubes with top getters, so perhaps Westinghouse manufactured this tube with side getters as well.



The plot thickens - here is a top getter 12SN7:





And a bottom getter:




Side, top, bottom getter - does it make a difference? Don't know.....


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> The plot thickens - here is a top getter 12SN7:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The structures of these two are quite different.

BTW, I don't have any 12SN7.


----------



## 2359glenn

Westinghouse tubes are good quality don't know about SQ. In the early 1980s I had a TV store and originally used only GE tubes RCA had a higher failure rate.
Then switched to Westinghouse lower cost and good quality. Had to use good tubes I lived in the Boonies and if a tube failed that I just replaced 2 weeks ago failed.
Had to drive 20+ miles to replace it for free.
So I exclusively used GE then Westinghouse that had the lowest failure rate. Especially the high voltage tubes Horizontal output and damper diodes.
No 6SN7s were used at that point the 9 pin version 6FQ7 was used as a 6SN7 replacement for the horizontal oscillator.


----------



## whirlwind

Happy to report that the ECC35 is as quiet as the ECC32 in my amp.

Tried the ECC35 with a pair of 6AS7G and a pair of 1961 5998 tubes.

 
Tried this combo with the Atticus...very nice back round black as midnight.

 
Gave the LCD-3 a spin with these 1961 5998 tubes,,,,again blacker than black back round.

Thanks much Starvos...very happy on my end.


----------



## 2359glenn

I am glad these tubes sound so good for you.
Think that most British tubes sound better then US tubes because the US tubes were made cheaper.
From 1he 1950s on most tubes were made for large scale TV production ware SQ and noise didn't matter.
Most 6SN7s were Horizontal and Vertical oscillators and noise and SQ did not matter. I have also seen the 7N7 used for this.
Showing my age working on these old TVs.  Still have a 1950 Philco TV that works perfectly black and white of course.


----------



## whirlwind (May 19, 2019)

Here is the thing concerning planar headphones though, or at least the two pair that I have.

Even though the GOTL will give them plenty of  volume when you turn it up and seem to power them fine.....once you then plug those same headphones
into the GEL3N amp a certain magic happens...those same headphones transform into a completely different sound...one that has much more space between instruments and the sound is just at a different level across the whole spectrum. It is just a different presentation and such an enjoyable experience.

The GEC U18/20 rectifier is my favorite of all of my rectifiers so far.




I need to score a Cossor 45IU or a Cossor 53KU or CV378 fat bottle rectifier and maybe an WE422A if one pops up for the right price....rolling just these three rectifiers would be a dream come true.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I am glad these tubes sound so good for you.
> Think that most British tubes sound better then US tubes because the US tubes were made cheaper.
> From 1he 1950s on most tubes were made for large scale TV production ware SQ and noise didn't matter.
> Most 6SN7s were Horizontal and Vertical oscillators and noise and SQ did not matter. I have also seen the 7N7 used for this.
> Showing my age working on these old TVs.  Still have a 1950 Philco TV that works perfectly black and white of course.



I can not argue with that, seems all British tubes sound great where as US tubes are definitely more hit and miss...a bigger chance not to like the sound maybe.
Seems I have never met a GEC or mullard tube that I did not like.

That being said I like many US power tubes and some drivers...like TSBGRP, RCA smoked glass and a few others.
To me i seem to like all 6SN7 tubes as they all sound pretty good....just some are on a different level for sure. 
everybody's mileage may vary, depending on what you like.


----------



## 2359glenn

The EL3N amp has lower output impedance and more control better dampening of the phones. Hell it can drive speakers
For the money it is my best amp.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I am glad these tubes sound so good for you.
> Think that most British tubes sound better then US tubes because the US tubes were made cheaper.
> From 1he 1950s on most tubes were made for large scale TV production ware SQ and noise didn't matter.
> Most 6SN7s were Horizontal and Vertical oscillators and noise and SQ did not matter. I have also seen the 7N7 used for this.
> Showing my age working on these old TVs.  Still have a 1950 Philco TV that works perfectly black and white of course.




When my mother passed away last year, she still owned an old RCA 19 inch portable that weighed a ton for how small it was...it worked but the picture tube was real close to being gone.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The EL3N amp has lower output impedance and more control better dampening of the phones. Hell it can drive speakers
> For the money it is my best amp.



The stage is so wide , deep, detailed and amazing that these tubes sound this good.....I am sure that using the Lundahl transformers has much to do with it as well, as I know transformer coupled amps only as good as the transformers used.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I can not argue with that, seems all British tubes sound great where as US tubes are definitely more hit and miss...a bigger chance not to like the sound maybe.
> Seems I have never met a GEC or mullard tube that I did not like.
> 
> That being said I like many US power tubes and some drivers...like TSBGRP, RCA smoked glass and a few others.
> ...



Most o these are prior to 1950.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> The stage is so wide , deep, detailed and amazing that these tubes sound this good.....I am sure that using the Lundahl transformers has much to do with it as well, as I know transformer coupled amps only as good as the transformers used.



Yes the transformers are the most important part of the amp.
The transformers alone cost me $1000 why would I pay that if it didn't make the difference.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> The EL3N amp has lower output impedance and more control better dampening of the phones. Hell it can drive speakers
> *For the money it is my best amp*.


NOW you tell me?!?!


----------



## mordy (May 19, 2019)

attmci said:


> The structures of these two are quite different.
> 
> It really does not make sense that the same tube comes in so many different configurations, which leads me to believe that notwithstanding the Westinghouse print and logo on the tube, they could have been made by a different manufacturer.
> As far as I can remember, side getters were not so common among US tubes. I think RCA and TS(?) made such tubes .
> Could it be that side getter tubes were developed in order to have a smaller and more compact tube? Although some side getter tubes are just as tall as the top getter tubes....


----------



## whirlwind

I have listened to these two albums last night and today.
  


Once with GOTL & Atticus using Bendix 6080 + ECC32
Once with GEL3N & LCD-3

Totally Immersed with both....outstanding.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I have listened to these two albums last night and today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I love CCR's music,but the masterings of the material I own are quite bright and thin sounding. Whoever does the production for ZZ Top and Billy Gibbons would work wonders for CCR's stuff.


----------



## Zachik

I know it was discussed before, but I am trying to get a definite answer:
Are 6SL7 and 12SL7 safe / good substitutes to 6SN7 and 12SN7 respectively?

I know the SL have higher gain than the SN variant. Paired with 6080 or 6AS7 - would they just be louder (and potentially noisier)?
I keep running into 6SL7 and 12SL7 tubes for cheap... but never bought any not knowing if acceptable / good / safe replacement or not.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I love CCR's music,but the masterings of the material I own are quite bright and thin sounding. Whoever does the production for ZZ Top and Billy Gibbons would work wonders for CCR's stuff.



The CCR album here is from 1968 and I agree that it can sound bright, but the tunes Graveyard Train & Chooglin' make it epic in itself.
The 6080 power tubes and the ECC32 driver with Atticus was wonderful.....I will be revisiting it soon.

Can't believe it has been 51 years since it's release


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> I know it was discussed before, but I am trying to get a definite answer:
> Are 6SL7 and 12SL7 safe / good substitutes to 6SN7 and 12SN7 respectively?
> 
> I know the SL have higher gain than the SN variant. Paired with 6080 or 6AS7 - would they just be louder (and potentially noisier)?
> I keep running into 6SL7 and 12SL7 tubes for cheap... but never bought any not knowing if acceptable / good / safe replacement or not.


Hi Zachik,
The answer to all your questions is Yes. Safe to use, higher gain, potentially more noisy but usually not a problem. You have to try different combinations to see what sounds best/is most quiet.
And the reason for the 12V switch in the GOTL is access to 6SN7 tubes or equivalents at lower prices. and the same goes for 12V nine pin tubes that can be used with an adapter.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> The CCR album here is from 1968 and I agree that it can sound bright, but the tunes Graveyard Train & Chooglin' make it epic in itself.
> The 6080 power tubes and the ECC32 driver with Atticus was wonderful.....I will be revisiting it soon.
> 
> Can't believe it has been 51 years since it's release


Hi Whirlwind,
Would Raytheon graphite plate 6080WB and Mullard ECC31 be the same sound signature?


----------



## whirlwind

Yes I believe it would or at least very very close


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> I know it was discussed before, but I am trying to get a definite answer:
> Are 6SL7 and 12SL7 safe / good substitutes to 6SN7 and 12SN7 respectively?
> 
> I know the SL have higher gain than the SN variant. Paired with 6080 or 6AS7 - would they just be louder (and potentially noisier)?
> I keep running into 6SL7 and 12SL7 tubes for cheap... but never bought any not knowing if acceptable / good / safe replacement or not.




They will work, as Glenn said there are better matches for the circuitry, but what you can put in Glenn's amps seem never ending at times.
With more gain always comes the chance of more noise.
They also could be quiet.


----------



## whirlwind (May 19, 2019)

Back to the GOTL & Atticus with Benddix and ECC32

Same album, this time with a set of Bendix that I got from Starvos a couple years back.
Red Label with the slotted plates....these are matched, and less finicky than my other pair.












Killer sound..A lot of meat to the music.


----------



## Monsterzero

Damn it! You guys are making me regret not grabbing those Bendix!
First world problems.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Damn it! You guys are making me regret not grabbing those Bendix!
> First world problems.




I am sure you will be plenty happy once those 5998's reach you.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 19, 2019)

That feeling when you begin the early planning stages of buying your GOTL and you realize the two Western Electric 421As that you bought at separate times from separate sellers somehow have matching date codes to the week...

Surely this is a sign to move forward, the tube gods are on my side


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> what you can put in Glenn's amps seem never ending at times


...and that is the reason we need some list or something!
When I find some time - I think I will create a table with everything that would fit each tube socket (rectifier, driver, output), and whether or not adapter is needed...
Just need to find some time. Once I do that - I will share with you guys for the community (and especially newbies) benefit


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> ...and that is the reason we need some list or something!
> When I find some time - I think I will create a table with everything that would fit each tube socket (rectifier, driver, output), and whether or not adapter is needed...
> Just need to find some time. Once I do that - I will share with you guys for the community (and especially newbies) benefit



Maybe you missed this. Def a very good start,but prolly not 100% complete

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1690#post-14839067
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1691#post-14839953
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1691#post-14840042


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Back to the GOTL & Atticus with Benddix and ECC32
> 
> Same album, this time with a set of Bendix that I got from Starvos a couple years back.
> Red Label with the slotted plates....these are matched, and less finicky than my other pair.
> ...


Hi Whirlwind,
Dug into my tube boxes and decided to use my Greek import of the Bendix 6080WB - another pair from Stavro's collection! Also plugged in a very old looking Mullard ECC31 that h1 acquired for me.



First impression is powerful and impactful bass but need more time to adjust to this this sound and compare it to my ATM favorite setup....


----------



## whirlwind (May 19, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> That feeling when you begin the early planning stages of buying your GOTL and you realize the two Western Electric 421As that you bought at separate times from separate sellers somehow have matching date codes to the week...
> 
> Surely this is a sign to move forward



Well,  if there ever was a sign I would have to say this surely would be it     
Plus the thread could use another Ohio boy!






Zachik said:


> ...and that is the reason we need some list or something!
> When I find some time - I think I will create a table with everything that would fit each tube socket (rectifier, driver, output), and whether or not adapter is needed...
> Just need to find some time. Once I do that - I will share with you guys for the community (and especially newbies) benefit



This thread would last forever, there is already enough options to literally drive you crazy if you want to try them all.
Just be sure to get the 6/12/25 volt driver option as has already been said...it will allow you try many tubes and save money.

If you are big into transparenty..then add the C3g option as well.....EL3N option would also be good....but they will work with a two tube adapter for the 6SN7  slot or the better single adapters for the C3g slots, or better yet get the EL3N amp.
It really is a win/win.......you can't pick an amp that won't sound very good.

I honestly can't imagined being disappointed in any amp that you could want.


----------



## rosgr63

Pleased you like the tubes Joe

Happy listening


----------



## whirlwind (May 19, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi Whirlwind,
> Dug into my tube boxes and decided to use my Greek import of the Bendix 6080WB - another pair from Stavro's collection! Also plugged in a very old looking Mullard ECC31 that h1 acquired for me.
> 
> First impression is powerful and impactful bass but need more time to adjust to this this sound and compare it to my ATM favorite setup....



Very nice, mordy.....what headphones are you using ?

Those Greek imports probably sound pretty darn good!


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Maybe you missed this. Def a very good start,but prolly not 100% complete
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1690#post-14839067
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1691#post-14839953
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1691#post-14840042


THANKS!!! Definitely a good starting point for creating a table with all KNOWN options


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Just be sure to get the 6/12/25 volt driver option as has already been said...it will allow you try many tubes and save money.
> 
> If you are big into transpartenty...then add the C3g option as well.....EL3N option would also be good....but they will work with a two tube adapter for the 6SN7 slot or the better single adapters for the C3g slots, or better yet get the EL3N amp.


My GOTL already got the 6/12/25 volt driver option, and the C3g option 
I agree that anyone should AT LEAST get the triple voltage option!


----------



## gibosi (May 19, 2019)

Decided to roll in a pair of clear-top 5998s, dated week 10, 1957. As before, a Holland-made GZ34 and the WIRAG EL3N. However, I can't say that I hear any difference between these clear-tops and those with top getters. But then, my ears are old and no-longer up to spec, so to speak...


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Very nice, mordy.....what headphones are you using ?
> 
> Those Greek imports probably sound pretty darn good!


I am one of the few that mainly listens via speakers; using a double dose of KEF LS50 killers - two pairs of the Elac Debut 6 and Debut 6 v.2. These speakers are rated at 6 Ohm and I am using them in parallel. The amp I am using (Tandberg 3006A) is supposedly stable down to 2 ohms and so far it works fine. The GOTL is on preamp duty fed by a Musical Fidelity V-DAC.
I have two pairs of headphones, the Beyerdynamic T1 Gen 1 and the Massdrop Sennheiser HD650. Also a Senn HD201 that I use to test and check new tube configurations to avoid blown drivers etc.
All the enthusiastic talk about the ZMF headphones makes me feel a little out of the mainstream of GOTL owners....
So far the Bendix tubes sound nice with the ECC31 but a little bright. It takes me time to adjust to the sound of a new configuration and the tubes probably need some time with the amp to sound their best.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Decided to roll in a pair of clear-top 5998s, dated week 10, 1957. As before, a Holland-made GZ34 and the WIRAG EL3N. However, I can't say that I hear any difference between these clear-tops and those with top getters. But then, my ears are old and no-longer up to spec, so to speak...


My hearing isn't as good as it used to be as well, but I think that most of the music is found within a frequency range that can be enjoyed even as you age.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

whirlwind said:


> I am going to pop in the Chatham 6AS7G with the ECC35 tonight.
> 
> Those Bendix made my room warm...need to turn on AC for those


The Chatham 6as7g’s (I just call them my “Chats”) are my favorite powers tubes. 

They are dead quiet and I feel like they don’t get in the way of any of the tubes that I add to the equation. 

I am currently trying to find a quiet inexpensive combo to roll to use the Glenn for gaming.  I currently use the HD800 and the Liquid Carbon, but I would rather use the OTL 100% of the time lol. Why not right??

I can’t mentally afford using the Chats all the time for something like gaming can, but I want dead quiet... Haven’t figured out what tubes combos are the quietest yet  that I wouldn’t mind using the their life up. hmmm


----------



## 2359glenn

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> The Chatham 6as7g’s (I just call them my “Chats”) are my favorite powers tubes.
> 
> They are dead quiet and I feel like they don’t get in the way of any of the tubes that I add to the equation.
> 
> ...



You can try some Svetlana 6H13C they are usually quiet and cheep from Russia the shipping will be as much as the tubes.
I don't think you will ever use up the Chatham 6AS7s what are you going to use the 8hrs a day really not that much.
Tubes don't burn up as fast as people think they do.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

2359glenn said:


> You can try some Svetlana 6H13C they are usually quiet and cheep from Russia the shipping will be as much as the tubes.
> I don't think you will ever use up the Chatham 6AS7s what are you going to use the 8hrs a day really not that much.
> Tubes don't burn up as fast as people think they do.


@Hansotek just told me the same thing ha. He says you can always buy more tubes but you can’t buy back quality time... I just felt like unless I’m sitting down and actively listening to music I would just be wasting them... but like you say, I guess it would take me forever to burn them out!

The original 6H13C’s that I got with the amp were awesome until the one tube developed a sort of bassy pop sound that I couldn’t remedy. But from what you and Hansotek say about the life span, I’ll just use em and enjoy em.


----------



## attmci (May 19, 2019)

gibosi said:


> Decided to roll in a pair of clear-top 5998s, dated week 10, 1957. As before, a Holland-made GZ34 and the WIRAG EL3N. However, I can't say that I hear any difference between these clear-tops and those with top getters. But then, my ears are old and no-longer up to spec, so to speak...


Joe, please compare these to the WE421A.  And tell us that the 421A is much better than these.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Hey everyone,
I am finalizing the build choices for my GOTL, but I wanted to run it by the committee before I do and make sure I am not overlooking anything  yes, this build is a little over-the-top, I am a bit of a sucker for boutique components, here is what I have in mind:

• Base socket loadout (6SN7-equivalent input, 6AS7-equivalent output), because my current amplifier runs a similar setup, I already have a TON of tubes to roll (see below).  I am not opting for the 6BL7 setup, C3G, EL3N, etc.
• Lundahl transformer
• HEXFRED rectified - for simplicity, and saving myself hundreds, if not thousands of dollars down the road.  I know I will get the itch for a Western Electric 422A, and I'd rather not be tempted!  Also, I have combed the thread and the HEXFRED diodes have very good reviews.
• 6/12/25 volt switch, for longevity.
• 5998 optimization switch.
• Goldpoint stepped attenuator - I really enjoy the stepped attenuator on my current amplifier, so I am opting for a Goldpoint.
• Jupiter coupling capacitors.
• Black face plate, for the sake of being contrarian.

So why only the 6SN7/6AS7 sockets?  I have several available output pairs in my collection already, and thanks in part to Greece's #1 exporter of rare and valuable tubes, I have more than enough inputs to play with, I think I will be more than satisfied with this rotation for a very long time.  I also have a matched pair of 5998's out in the wild, and plan to add the 6336s as well.

Any thoughts or feedback is much-appreciated!


----------



## 2359glenn

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> @Hansotek just told me the same thing ha. He says you can always buy more tubes but you can’t buy back quality time... I just felt like unless I’m sitting down and actively listening to music I would just be wasting them... but like you say, I guess it would take me forever to burn them out!
> 
> The original 6H13C’s that I got with the amp were awesome until the one tube developed a sort of bassy pop sound that I couldn’t remedy. But from what you and Hansotek say about the life span, I’ll just use em and enjoy em.



Just to give you a idea how long these tubes last. At work I build 200 volt regulated power suplys using two 6AS7s and a 6SJ7 to replace SS switched power supply
that blow up. Some of these have been on for 14 years 24 hours a day 7 days a week with out a tube failure.
At first I used GE 6AS7s now use Svetlana 6H13. I do not use expensive 6AS7s for power supply's this is what these tubes were meant to do series pass regulators.
Power supply failure is a bad thing if the guides stop moving 2 things can be in the same place at the same time all bad.


----------



## mordy

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> @Hansotek just told me the same thing ha. He says you can always buy more tubes but you can’t buy back quality time... I just felt like unless I’m sitting down and actively listening to music I would just be wasting them... but like you say, I guess it would take me forever to burn them out!
> 
> The original 6H13C’s that I got with the amp were awesome until the one tube developed a sort of bassy pop sound that I couldn’t remedy. But from what you and Hansotek say about the life span, I’ll just use em and enjoy em.


I found the Westinghouse 12SN7GT unusually quiet and would be fine for gaming. Easily found for $10 or less including shipping.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey everyone,
> I am finalizing the build choices for my GOTL, but I wanted to run it by the committee before I do and make sure I am not overlooking anything  yes, this build is a little over-the-top, I am a bit of a sucker for boutique components, here is what I have in mind:
> 
> • Base socket loadout (6SN7-equivalent input, 6AS7-equivalent output), because my current amplifier runs a similar setup, I already have a TON of tubes to roll (see below).  I am not opting for the 6BL7 setup, C3G, EL3N, etc.
> ...


Hi LG,
I don't have the optimization switch for the 5998 but I seem to remember reading that people said that it does not make much of a difference.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Joe, please compare these to the WE421A.  And tell us that the 421A is much better than these.



Ummm... My name isn't Joe and I don't have the 421A. Sorry. lol


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

mordy said:


> I found the Westinghouse 12SN7GT unusually quiet and would be fine for gaming. Easily found for $10 or less including shipping.


That’s what’s up. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## attmci (May 19, 2019)

gibosi said:


> Ummm... My name isn't Joe and I don't have the 421A. Sorry. lol


From now on, I will call everyone here Joe. You can play the same. LOL

And the new JOTL is coming.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> I don't have the optimization switch for the 5998 but I seem to remember reading that people said that it does not make much of a difference.



Duly noted, thanks Mordy, I'll go back and see what I can find on it in the GOTL archives.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Duly noted, thanks Mordy, I'll go back and see what I can find on it in the GOTL archives.



Yeah,Ive been told the same.

I like aspects of your build. To be honest im not a huge fan of the 6BX7s,not so much because they sound bad(they dont)rather I have a helluva time with hum when I use them. Its there,then its not. It really detracts from my enjoyment of my system,and im to the point where I doubt I will ever use them again.

The C3G slots are another story. C3Gs arent expensive,and can sound really nice,plus it gives you the option of triple driver combo.

HEXFRED? I absolutely do not regret getting the option to use either HEXFRED or tubes for a rectifier. Rectifiers def make a difference in this amp. The GEC U52 is soooo good! i mean if you have no self control with finances then I guess steer clear,but I'd def recommend the option to roll either HEXFRED or a tube to anyone considering a GOTL build.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 20, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,Ive been told the same.
> 
> I like aspects of your build. To be honest im not a huge fan of the 6BX7s,not so much because they sound bad(they dont)rather I have a helluva time with hum when I use them. Its there,then its not. It really detracts from my enjoyment of my system,and im to the point where I doubt I will ever use them again.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Monster.  I'll reconsider the C3G sockets, that is one option where I am still on the fence. Still have to do some more digging on that front.

As far as the HEXFREDs go, I have read and reread every post I can find referencing them since you responded, including differences between the American/Lundahl transformers, optimization for tube versus SS rectification, etc.  I know it may sound crazy to have less functionality/rollability essentially, and I can appreciate that rectifiers will affect sound, but this is an instance where I think I would appreciate more simplicity, a sort of "set it and forget it", if you will.  I like the idea of not having to worry about voltage drop, knowing the Lundahl transformer is well-optimized for SS rectification, that I can run 6336s without worrying about overloading my rectifier, all that jazz.  I'll sleep on it and go through all the info one more time.  But thank you for the alternative perspective!  You aren't the first to tell me I would be missing out, and it did make me reconsider, much appreciated


----------



## whirlwind (May 20, 2019)

attmci said:


> Joe, please compare these to the WE421A.  And tell us that the 421A is much better than these.



That is Ken who has rolled in the 5998 clear tops.
I can not do the comparison that you want as none of my 5998 tubes are clear tops and I do not own the WE421A





L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey everyone,
> I am finalizing the build choices for my GOTL, but I wanted to run it by the committee before I do and make sure I am not overlooking anything  yes, this build is a little over-the-top, I am a bit of a sucker for boutique components, here is what I have in mind:
> 
> • Base socket loadout (6SN7-equivalent input, 6AS7-equivalent output), because my current amplifier runs a similar setup, I already have a TON of tubes to roll (see below).  I am not opting for the 6BL7 setup, C3G, EL3N, etc.
> ...




Being that you have all of the tubes you need the GOTL is a great choice for you, then again seeing as you already have an OTL amp, Maybe the GEL3N amp comes into play.
Then you would need to buy those tubes however as I do not know if Glenn supplies those with the amp, that would be a question for Glenn.

Your build looks pretty darn solid, I would agree with most that the 5998 switch is not a deal breaker if you do not have it....those tubes sound killer regardless.

You still could use 6BX7/6BL7 tubes with an adapter if you ever got the urge to. With the adapter I could never get six of them to work for any long periods of time....but four would work and be quiet.
They do sound very good and are cheap.

I do not have the 5 volt rectifier option in my amp, but the people  who have it do seem to really enjoy it and you can get a drop in hexfred and still have that option. I do have the rectifier option in my GEL3N amp and love it.
Understandable if you do not want it though, as that would cost you more money to get tubes.

The only other thing would be the C3g tubes, again understandable if you do not want them as you would have to buy other tubes.....but man these tubes sound incredible, very transparent....can be a bit finicky, some people take the shield off to see the tube glow,
I would suggest leaving it on to help protect the tube and to shield outside noise.

You seemed to have everything pretty much figured out and you can feel safe that if you ordered just as you posted, that will be a heck of an amp and you would not have to spend more on tubes.
The other options are very nice, but will cost you more tube money....it can be hard not to add all of Glenn's options.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks, Monster.  I'll reconsider the C3G sockets, that is one option where I am still on the fence. Still have to do some more digging on that front.
> 
> As far as the HEXFREDs go, I have read and reread every post I can find referencing them since you responded, including differences between the American/Lundahl transformers, optimization for tube versus SS rectification, etc.  I know it may sound crazy to have less functionality/rollability essentially, and I can appreciate that rectifiers will affect sound, but this is an instance where I think I would appreciate more simplicity, a sort of "set it and forget it", if you will.  I like the idea of not having to worry about voltage drop, knowing the Lundahl transformer is well-optimized for SS rectification, that I can run 6336s without worrying about overloading my rectifier, all that jazz.  I'll sleep on it and go through all the info one more time.  But thank you for the alternative perspective!  You aren't the first to tell me I would be missing out, and it did make me reconsider, much appreciated



The Lundahl transformer is really optimized for a SS full wave rectifier the US transformer is made for tube rectifier. It has a higher voltage to compensate
for the voltage drop in the tube. 15 volts more.
Heybore builds the transformer I need to my spec. Lundahl I just have to take what they have no special orders.

Lowest hum and noise Lundahl with SS HEXFRED full wave rectifier


----------



## Wes S

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey everyone,
> I am finalizing the build choices for my GOTL, but I wanted to run it by the committee before I do and make sure I am not overlooking anything  yes, this build is a little over-the-top, I am a bit of a sucker for boutique components, here is what I have in mind:
> 
> • Base socket loadout (6SN7-equivalent input, 6AS7-equivalent output), because my current amplifier runs a similar setup, I already have a TON of tubes to roll (see below).  I am not opting for the 6BL7 setup, C3G, EL3N, etc.
> ...


Oh wow!  What a tube collection.


----------



## Monsterzero

Anyone tried the RCA 5R4GY in the Glenn? Thoughts?
In the rectifier thread DSG says it has a brightish tone with wide staging,but the rest isnt so great....


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Anyone tried the RCA 5R4GY in the Glenn? Thoughts?
> In the rectifier thread DSG says it has a brightish tone with wide staging,but the rest isnt so great....



To my ears, the RCA 5R4GY isn't so great either. I think the Brimar. Fivre and the Philips Miniwatt/Dario/RTC are better, and of these, I prefer the Brimar.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Anyone tried the RCA 5R4GY in the Glenn? Thoughts?
> In the rectifier thread DSG says it has a brightish tone with wide staging,but the rest isnt so great....



The 5R4 has the highest voltage drop.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> To my ears, the RCA 5R4GY isn't so great either. I think the Brimar. Fivre and the Philips Miniwatt/Dario/RTC are better, and of these, I prefer the Brimar.





2359glenn said:


> The 5R4 has the highest voltage drop.



Thanks guys. Yall saved me fifteen bucks.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Being that you have all of the tubes you need the GOTL is a great choice for you, then again seeing as you already have an OTL amp, Maybe the GEL3N amp comes into play.
> Then you would need to buy those tubes however as I do not know if Glenn supplies those with the amp, that would be a question for Glenn.
> 
> Your build looks pretty darn solid, I would agree with most that the 5998 switch is not a deal breaker if you do not have it....those tubes sound killer regardless.
> ...



No doubt these are some hard decisions to make!  A definite appeal for me is having a tube loadout ready to go out of the gate.  And you are right, with the extras putting the GOTL closer to the GEL3N price bracket, it is something I've considered.  A more practical person would probably get the GEL3N, but I have my heart set on the OTL 

You, Monster, and my reading in the thread have convinced me, the C3G sockets are being added.  Thank you for your 2¢, Joe.  Guess I will be shopping for a pair in the near future.



2359glenn said:


> The Lundahl transformer is really optimized for a SS full wave rectifier the US transformer is made for tube rectifier. It has a higher voltage to compensate
> for the voltage drop in the tube. 15 volts more.
> Heybore builds the transformer I need to my spec. Lundahl I just have to take what they have no special orders.
> 
> Lowest hum and noise Lundahl with SS HEXFRED full wave rectifier



That's what I gathered from my reading, Glenn.  I am going to stick with my initial plan and do the Lundahl with the HEXFRED rectifier, no socket.  I'm sure rolling rectifiers is a blast, but I think I can benefit from a more streamlined tube rolling experience, especially with all of the driver options.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> The 5R4 has the highest voltage drop.



A couple years ago I measured voltage drop in my GOTL, and it was 38 for the RCA and 37 for the Philips and the Brimar. That said, the Brimar is an extremely good sounding rectifier. In my experience, at least in the GOTL, voltage drop is not a good indicator of how a rectifier sounds. The Brimar is anything but slow and syrupy. But of course, my ears, my gear, YMMV.


----------



## Velozity

Can HEXFRED be added later if the amp is built for a tube rectifier?  Does it fit into the socket?  Or is the only way to get HEXFRED to have a dedicated location for it?


----------



## gibosi

Velozity said:


> Can HEXFRED be added later if the amp is built for a tube rectifier?  Does it fit into the socket?  Or is the only way to get HEXFRED to have a dedicated location for it?



Glenn made me a HEXFRED rectifer that can be plugged into a 5-volt rectifier socket. So yes, you can have both.


----------



## Velozity

gibosi said:


> Glenn made me a HEXFRED rectifer that can be plugged into a 5-volt rectifier socket. So yes, you can have both.




Perfect, thanks.  My amp will have the Lundahl transformer so I may try that route.  I also want the ability to run a tube.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Glenn made me a HEXFRED rectifer that can be plugged into a 5-volt rectifier socket. So yes, you can have both.



Same as the Monster! I tried HEXFRED,and it sounds smooth,but prefer a good rectifier tube.


----------



## Zachik (May 20, 2019)

OK - very first stab at the promised compatibility list / table...
Created for my own reference, but will be happy to keep maintaining and sharing with you guys. Tube / OTL newbies (like me) would benefit the most, I think.
So... feedback is welcome! 

Edit: Since I could not attach the file - here is a link to it:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHcgqSa16WqaAjwUYoE3eZlSfmaSluQFVYqY1pry-NI/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## Zachik

^^ strange - I do not see the attached PDF 
Any idea why it is not showing?!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> ^^ strange - I do not see the attached PDF
> Any idea why it is not showing?!



Hmm.  I don't think I have ever uploaded a PDF to Head-Fi, if it becomes an issue, I would suggest converting it to a JPEG and uploading as an image, or hosting it publicly in the cloud and providing a link (Google Drive, Dropbox, etc.).


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hmm.  I don't think I have ever uploaded a PDF to Head-Fi, if it becomes an issue, I would suggest converting it to a JPEG and uploading as an image, or hosting it publicly in the cloud and providing a link (Google Drive, Dropbox, etc.).


OK - here is a link (will add to initial post as well):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHcgqSa16WqaAjwUYoE3eZlSfmaSluQFVYqY1pry-NI/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## jmac1516

Zachik said:


> OK - here is a link (will add to initial post as well):
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHcgqSa16WqaAjwUYoE3eZlSfmaSluQFVYqY1pry-NI/edit?usp=sharing


Thank you for this!

I have a GOTL on order and have zero tubes. Needless to say, I’m in the market.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Valvo EL8 / Philips Miniwatt EL3N (Deyan's custom adapters for EL3N to c3g)
> 
> Telefunken EL11 (Deyan's custom adapters for EL11 to c3g)


Working on my tube list compatibility... who is this mysterious Deyan?!  There is no Head-Fi member by that name... and where does one buy these adapters?
All I could find is EL3N to 6SN7 adapters! Can one use EL3N with this adapter in the 6SN7 tube socket? or 2 of these in the C3g sockets?


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Working on my tube list compatibility... who is this mysterious Deyan?!  There is no Head-Fi member by that name... and where does one buy these adapters?
> All I could find is EL3N to 6SN7 adapters! Can one use EL3N with this adapter in the 6SN7 tube socket? or 2 of these in the C3g sockets?



He’s from the Games of Throne, a specialist adapter maker. Can make you any adapter you want and they are quality stuff.

I forgot his Head-fi name but I’ll get you his email when I get home.

For EL3N, you will use 2. One in each of the c3g sockets.


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Working on my tube list compatibility... who is this mysterious Deyan?!  There is no Head-Fi member by that name... and where does one buy these adapters?
> All I could find is EL3N to 6SN7 adapters! Can one use EL3N with this adapter in the 6SN7 tube socket? or 2 of these in the C3g sockets?



His eBay name is ein_sof
I always talk to him via PM on eBay and is prompt with both adapters and returning messages.


----------



## mordy

Been running on three cylinders (ECC31 and 2xBendix 6080WB) with very good results but decided to try a turbocharged 5 cylinder:




Why?
Why not? 
I have a pair of Bendix 6080WB and also Raytheon branded Bendix 6080WB tubes. The Raytheon tubes were pulled from some military equipment where they were paired with regular non-graphite plate 6080 Raytheon tubes. The seller asked me why I only wanted the heavy ones, but by that time they were all sold. Sold to another head-fier who ended up selling them to me a year later.
There is a certain heft and clarity to the mid bass and low bass as well as the treble, with great detail; sort of using a sonic magnifying glass focused on these parts of the frequency spectrum without being intrusive or annoying. Imparting LCD3 bass sound to my T1s.....
4XBendix 6080WB gives more authority to the bass than a pair of Cetron 6336B - a plan for planars?
The only aspect that I am grappling with is that the timbre isn't as sweet as I like it. Think of it as sound measured in Kelvin degrees. 2900-3000 Kelvin is soft warm yellowish white; 5000-6000 Kelvin is harsh bluish white.




In Kelvin speak this combination is around 4500K. In other words a little bright. Some success by turning the treble down a little, but maybe I can find a darker driver.....
Have fun!


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> For EL3N, you will use 2. One in each of the c3g sockets.


Would any of these work? (I am not sure if c3g pins are like 6SN7, 6J5, or neither...)
1. EL3N TO 6SN7 Tube adapter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio/201486463405?epid=1553725475&hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
2. EL3N TO 6J5 Tube adapter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6J5-Tube-adapter/192841514597?hash=item2ce63ffe65:g:42YAAOSw0yVcdy1T


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Would any of these work? (I am not sure if c3g pins are like 6SN7, 6J5, or neither...)
> 1. EL3N TO 6SN7 Tube adapter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio/201486463405?epid=1553725475&hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
> 2. EL3N TO 6J5 Tube adapter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6J5-Tube-adapter/192841514597?hash=item2ce63ffe65:g:42YAAOSw0yVcdy1T



None of those work. I will show you what you need in my next post.


----------



## UntilThen

To use EL3N in the GOTL, you can do that in 2 ways:-

1. Using 2 x EL3N with this adapter into the 6sn7 slot.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-Gol...m2ca65c7884:g:-W4AAOSw5IJWggQB&frcectupt=true

2. Using EL3N into the c3g slots. You will use both slots - therefore two EL3N.
The adapter for this you can ask Deyan to make for you. This adapter will look like the picture below. There you will see examples of EL11 to c3g and EL3N to c3g adapters. Both EL11 and EL3N are pentodes and we are going to use them as strapped triodes. So you need to use 2 tubes, similar to using 2 c3g.


 

I would recommend that you go with Option 2. Which will look like this.

 

Now I will PM you Deyan's email and you can write to him that you want two EL3N to c3g adapters.


----------



## Zachik

@UntilThen (or anyone else):
Can you try to describe EL11 and EL3N advantages or sound signature compared to c3g and/or 6SN7 ?
(Are they cheaper tubes? more powerful? better bass? smoother? more detailed? bigger sound stage? etc.)


----------



## UntilThen (May 21, 2019)

EL11 and EL3N sound is closer to 2a3 and as such is quite different to 6SN7 as drivers. It's more midcentric and projects a larger wall of sound image. 6SN7 is more 'minute' (small) and precise compared to the EL tubes. Those are the notable differences according to my ears.

In the scheme of Glenn's OTL amp, both EL and 6SN7 tubes will provide a very wide variety of sound for you to decide what's best for your headphone and other associated gear. You'll find that you can really live with a good variety of tubes which is the purpose of getting the GOTL.

EL3N is still relatively cheap. EL11 is expensive and hard to find NOS tubes. For EL3N, email Peter at http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/. You'll find EL3N tubes in that website under Tubdes & Co - NOS tubes. They also sell GZ34, GZ37 and RCA 6AS7 tubes. Just tell Peter I refer you and all the commission will roll into my coffers. 

c3g is unlike the EL3N and EL11 and not exactly like the 6SN7 either. For want of a better description, c3g is more neutral and can lean toward the brightness scale rather than the warm scale. You will not find a driver that is more revealing and abounding with clarity and micro details. Worth investing in it? Definitely.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 21, 2019)

Zachik said:


> OK - here is a link (will add to initial post as well):
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHcgqSa16WqaAjwUYoE3eZlSfmaSluQFVYqY1pry-NI/edit?usp=sharing



Hey Zachik - well done on the list!  This will be very helpful to those of us joining club GOTL.

I do see a tube type that is not on the list that is compatible.  It is the 5670/2C51-type tubes, it is a 6922-equivalent with a different pinout.  Requires a 5670 to 6SN7 adapter.

I used to have a large collection of these tubes, but sold it almost entirely as I did not have a compatible amp.  What a fool I was!

I still have some NOS Hytron 5670s left over.  If they impress in the GOTL, I might consider rebuilding my great 5670 collection


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> OK - here is a link (will add to initial post as well):
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHcgqSa16WqaAjwUYoE3eZlSfmaSluQFVYqY1pry-NI/edit?usp=sharing



Well done indeed. Good job.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Well done indeed. Good job.



UT your amp arrived in Australia.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> OK - very first stab at the promised compatibility list / table...
> Created for my own reference, but will be happy to keep maintaining and sharing with you guys. Tube / OTL newbies (like me) would benefit the most, I think.
> So... feedback is welcome!
> 
> ...




The link works great.
Great job on the chart....should be a lot of help for people.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> UT your amp arrived in Australia.



It's with Customs now and I leave on Sat ... my family will have to collect it for me if it doesn't arrive by Sat. Which isn't likely. It's ok I'll pick it up in a few weeks time.

It's been a while. I do miss the OTL amp.


----------



## whirlwind

Where are you headed Matt ?


----------



## UntilThen

Interstate to work.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> Interstate to work.



The only place near where you're headed which is fun is Wakefield Park. Safe trip dude lol


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Interstate to work.




Safe travels


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> The only place near where you're headed which is fun is Wakefield Park. Safe trip dude lol



I might just stop by and do a few laps.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Safe travels



Ty ty. My racing bicycle is strapped on top of the car.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It's with Customs now and I leave on Sat ... my family will have to collect it for me if it doesn't arrive by Sat. Which isn't likely. It's ok I'll pick it up in a few weeks time.
> 
> It's been a while. I do miss the OTL amp.



It supposed to be guaranteed that you will get it by Thursday.


----------



## rosgr63

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey Zachik - well done on the list!  This will be very helpful to those of us joining club GOTL.
> 
> I do see what tube type that is not on the list that is compatible.  It is the 5670/2C51-type tubes, it is a 6922-equivalent with a different pinout.  Requires a 5670 to 6SN7 adapter.
> 
> ...



Very nice!

Don't forget the 2C51/6385/396A all nice sounding tubes.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Been running on three cylinders (ECC31 and 2xBendix 6080WB) with very good results but decided to try a turbocharged 5 cylinder:
> 
> Why?
> Why not?
> ...


Man, it's 88f here yesterday and you were using two pairs of these.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Man, it's 88f here yesterday and you were using two pairs of these.



Hello? It's winter here or almost. I'll be lighting up 2 6336b.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Man, it's 88f here yesterday and you were using two pairs of these.


K


attmci said:


> Man, it's 88f here yesterday and you were using two pairs of these.


AC on and fan cooling. And I am adding more tubes to try to add some sweetness to the recipe....
Truth is that the GOTL does not get very hot - it is designed to release heat through the tubes and not through the chassis. It can stay on 24/7 without a fan and not overheating. I only use the fan as an extra precautionary measure; the AC is only on for personal comfort and not for the amp.


----------



## Phantaminum

I find it also funny how we can have the rest of our place nice and frosty but come into the study room where my amp is and it’s 5 - 7 degrees hotter. It’s definitely a little space heater.


----------



## mordy (May 21, 2019)

error


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> I find it also funny how we can have the rest of our place nice and frosty but come into the study room where my amp is and it’s 5 - 7 degrees hotter. It’s definitely a little space heater.


Yes, definitively true.


----------



## mordy (May 21, 2019)

Hi Zachik,
First, thanks for the very nice list. Here are some suggested additions:
Combine Line 16 and 17: Add EL6
Line 18: Add EL13 and EL12N
After combining lines 16 and 17 into line 16, make a new
Line 17: EL32 - needs Deyan custom adapters EL32 to C3g
Line 19: Add 6H8C
Line 22: Add 6N7GT
Line 25: Add E180CC
Line 27: Add ECC804
Line 28: Add 6C8G
Line 38: Add 6520
Lines 43 and 44: Both the 6BL7 and 6BX7 should be used in multiples of 2 or 3 pairs

In the 12V section add 5687,5670, 396A and 2C51 which all need 5687 to 6SN7 adapter

There are a number of Russian tubes that can be used as drivers and powers; will need to look up the designations.
And the list goes on and on....
However, an additional list that I think would be extremely useful IMHO is a list of people's favorite tube combinations. *Synergy is everything.*
And also a list of inexpensive, great sounding combinations.....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Question for the forum: would you say the GOTL inputs or outputs having a larger effect on the sound of the amplifier when tube rolling?  Input as it is higher gain?  Or more equally shared?  Thanks


----------



## gibosi (May 21, 2019)

mordy said:


> In the 12V section add 5687,5670, 396A and 2C51 which all need 5687 to 6SN7 adapter



The 5687, along with 7044 and 7119 / E182CC require the 5687 to 6SN7 adapter. And the 5670, 396A and 2C51 require a 396A to 6SN7 adapter. Also there is the 6463, which requires even a different adapter.

Edit: Oh and then there is the ECC40 which requires yet another adapter.


----------



## gibosi (May 21, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Question for the forum: would you say the GOTL inputs or outputs having a larger effect on the sound of the amplifier when tube rolling?  Input as it is higher gain?  Or more equally shared?  Thanks



To my ears, the inputs, outputs and rectifiers all have about the same effect on the sound.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 21, 2019)

mordy said:


> In the 12V section add 5687,5670, 396A and 2C51 which all need 5687 to 6SN7 adapter





gibosi said:


> The 5687, along with 7044 and 7119 / E182CC require the 5687 to 6SN7 adapter. And the 5670, 396A and 2C51 require a 396A to 6SN7 adapter. And then there is the 6463, which requires even a different adapter.



Also, if I am not mistaken the 5670/2C51/396A/ECC42 is a 6.3 volt tube, not 12.6.

@Zachik if you wanted to make the document publicly editable to those who have the link, and are not concerned about rogue editors, you can do so by clicking "Share" in the top right corner, then "Advanced", then "Change" who has access, click the radio button for "On - Anyone with the link", and change "Can view" at the bottom to "Can edit".  If you would rather maintain the document yourself, more power to you!  Just feel like a bit of a backseat driver telling you to make changes, your work your call of course 



gibosi said:


> To my ears, the inputs, outputs and rectifiers all have about the same effect. on the sound.



Thanks, Gibosi, I appreciate it!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> It supposed to be guaranteed that you will get it by Thursday.



Oh ok I thought you said it's arriving on the 30th May which is next Thursday. However I just received a notification that it's arriving today which is 22nd May Wed here !

Yeehaa 3 days to play with it and then take it on my journey south.


----------



## 2359glenn (May 21, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Oh ok I thought you said it's arriving on the 30th May which is next Thursday. However I just received a notification that it's arriving today which is 22nd May Wed here !
> 
> Yeehaa 3 days to play with it and then take it on my journey south.



I have the receipt in front of me and it says Thursday May 30.
Usually EMS is faster then that it is guaranteed delivery by a certain date or I get postage refunded.
This forces it through customs some times. Not in Europe so much they are going to get their Taxes first.
Well great!!!!!!!!!!!
How long are you away fore?


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Also, if I am not mistaken the 5670/2C51/396A/ECC42 is a 6.3 volt tube, not 12.6.
> 
> _I shall stand corrected - the 5670/396A/2C51 require a separate adapter and they are 6V tubes.
> Add the Russian 6N3P to the alphabet soup in this group.
> The 5687 and some others have a center tap and can be run in both 6 and 12V mode._


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> To my ears, the inputs, outputs and rectifiers all have about the same effect on the sound.



I’ll second this. Use a transparent headphone and you’ll hear a substantial differences with different tubes. This became very apparent with the Auteurs. On the other hand the HD650 sounds great (the same) on most configurations. It’s pretty tube agnostic on the Glenn.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I have the receipt in front of me and it says Thursday May 30.
> Usually EMS is faster then that it is guaranteed delivery by a certain date or I get postage refunded.
> This forces it through customs some times. Not in Europe so much they are going to get their Taxes first.
> Well great!!!!!!!!!!!
> How long are you away fore?



I have a confirmation now that the amp is in the Post Office waiting for my collection. You shipped it on the 15th May and it's here on the 22nd May. That's a super quick 7 days from USA.

I'm heading to the PO to collect it now.

I've a long contract and will fly home fortnightly or every 3 weeks. I'll travel down by my car but will fly on my visits home.

Glenn, I hope the test results came out alright. My best regards to you.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Hello? It's winter here or almost. I'll be lighting up 2 6336b.


Good for you.


----------



## attmci

Phantaminum said:


> I’ll second this. Use a transparent headphone and you’ll hear a substantial differences with different tubes. This became very apparent with the Auteurs. On the other hand the HD650 sounds great (the same) on most configurations. It’s pretty tube agnostic on the Glenn.


Hi, Joe, Have you received the 7316?


----------



## Monsterzero

Congrats UT on getting your amp back. I know the Sansuis have been keeping you rockin',but the arrival of your GOTL will be a very welcome addition to your growing collection of amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I have a confirmation now that the amp is in the Post Office waiting for my collection. You shipped it on the 15th May and it's here on the 22nd May. That's a super quick 7 days from USA.
> 
> I'm heading to the PO to collect it now.
> 
> ...



Are you taking headphones and the OTL with you??


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Are you taking headphones and the OTL with you??



I am. Unboxing the GOTL now.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I am. Unboxing the GOTL now.



I can smell the tubes heating up all the way in the US. Or is it that it is 35deg C here?


----------



## Phantaminum

attmci said:


> Hi, Joe, Have you received the 7316?



I’ve received the 7316 and they are very good tubes. Holographic and wide sound stage with good extension on both ends. Definitely in my top ten for driver tubes. Thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I can smell the tubes heating up all the way in the US. Or is it that it is 35deg C here?



Haha. I feel like getting the OTL amp for the first time. How I love thee Ulysses. Thanks for the first class packing. Pardon the avalanche of photos again.


 

 

Thanks for packing my tubes so well !
 

There she is.
 

The interior is still like new.
 

With my audiophile made in china power cable haha.


----------



## UntilThen

The first tubes to go in are the Sylvania 6sn7w metal with 2 x Fivre 6bx7gt and 4 x Los Gatos (Tung Sol) 6bx7gt.

With no music playing, volume to 5pm (that's almost max !!!) - no noise at all. Incredible. 

Somehow there's less gain now with these tubes. Maybe the resistor you use? Anyway I feel it's better. I have a lot of play on the volume knob now. 

Tried the Sennheiser HD800 first. Omg, I forgot how good the combination of Yggdrasil > HD800 > GOTL with these tubes sound. First class !!! If you want an OTL amp, look no further. Buy this GOTL. I have no higher praise for it. 

Then I tried the Audeze LCD-3f. OMG  The planar sounds superb with it.


----------



## 2359glenn

I see it made the long trip in one piece.
That was pretty quick too.
Worth the extra cost to ship EMS mail.


----------



## attmci

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve received the 7316 and they are very good tubes. Holographic and wide sound stage with good extension on both ends. Definitely in my top ten for driver tubes. Thanks for the recommendation!


 Glad you like the tube.
They are also very quiet in my Crack amp.


----------



## UntilThen

A quick A/B with the Sansui AU-717. I have live with the Sansui for a while now in Ulysses's absence. I love the Sansui tube like tone.

However this quick A/B comparison is a revelation. The GOTL is sweeter, has better definition and gorgeous dynamics. There's more micro details and the highs though very revealing are never jarring or sibilant. It's a very comfortable tone.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> However, an additional list that I think would be extremely useful IMHO is a list of people's favorite tube combinations. *Synergy is everything.*
> And also a list of inexpensive, great sounding combinations.....


That is a totally different list / table... 



L0rdGwyn said:


> @Zachik if you wanted to make the document publicly editable to those who have the link, and are not concerned about rogue editors, you can do so by clicking "Share" in the top right corner, then "Advanced", then "Change" who has access, click the radio button for "On - Anyone with the link", and change "Can view" at the bottom to "Can edit". If you would rather maintain the document yourself, more power to you! Just feel like a bit of a backseat driver telling you to make changes, your work your call of course


I rather maintain myself


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Are you taking headphones and the OTL with you??


Glenn - when is your portable / battery powered OTL amp coming out?


----------



## Zachik

Thanks @UntilThen @mordy @rosgr63 @gibosi for the feedback!
I believe everything is incorporated in my table now


----------



## UntilThen

Now with my NOS Telefunken EL11 as drivers and 6 x 6bx7gt. I just have to make sure that the c3g slots are fine. Well I need not be concerned because this combination sounds awesome and is quiet. Amazing resistor you put in there Glenn. The amp is like new now.

It's such a lovely tone these EL11 with 6bx7 tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Now with my NOS Telefunken EL11 as drivers and 6 x 6bx7gt. I just have to make sure that the c3g slots are fine. Well I need not be concerned because this combination sounds awesome and is quiet. Amazing resistor you put in there Glenn. The amp is like new now.
> 
> It's such a lovely tone these EL11 with 6bx7 tubes.



No worries they are high wattage and can't burn out even i the driver is shorted.
You can run any tubes you want.
I normally don't use audiophile parts. But I did and they went bad don't know if it was a bad tube but still it shouldn't have done what they did.
Mow just run of the mill resistors higher wattage will be good foe ever now.


----------



## UntilThen

December 2017 comes flooding back now as I relived the wonders of first hearing the GOTL. Amazing is an understatement. 

Now I want to get in the queue for a GEL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

And now the tube that I thought was Ulysses's undoing. EL32 or also known as VT52 or CV1052. 

I'm now running the coke bottle shape EL32. They are Mullard and I bought a quad from a seller in India and he wanted my opinion so badly. Sadly that was the time my amp started playing up so I told him no feedback as I didn't know the cause of my amp failure. I also owe Mrs Xu an apology as I thought it was the adapter's problem. There is no problem with the tube or adapter in the GOTL. It was just a resistor failure in my amp.

Now in the GOTL, EL32 with 6 x 6bx7gt is incredible. What a beautiful tone. This pentode as strapped triode is just beautiful. My volume knob is at 12 noon with HD800.


----------



## UntilThen

Just in case you think these coke bottle shaped EL32 are unobtanium, I just bought another pair of EL32 with the greyish black glass that is supposed to sound the best. These are made in UK for the military in war time.

In the words of the seller:-
'These tubes have not seen daylight for more than 70 years'. 

 

There are only 6 pairs left. So be quick. 
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/202626624476


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
Glad that everything is back to happiness!
How about trying a three driver combination? Visseux 6N7G/EL32/ 2xBendix 6080WB or similar....
I am curious how you rate this compared to your other favorites.


----------



## UntilThen

All in good time Mordy. I'm going to re-sample the tubes slowly now. Being respectful of the sockets. I must treat this amp with care now. 

Glenn is a champ. He didn't charge me for the fix but my shipping cost both ways can buy me a pair of GEC 6as7g.


----------



## UntilThen

By the way if you're looking for the EL32 to c3g adapter, Mrs Xu does not make them anymore because I told her that the adapter might be a problem in the amp. 

So if you want the adapter, I could talk to her again but seeing that her adapter has no key guide, it would be better to speak to Deyan about making a custom adapter for EL32.

However, you shouldn't think that EL32 is the 'be all and end all' of all tubes in the GOTL. There are a lot of drivers and power tubes that sound great in this amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Congrats UT on getting your amp back. I know the Sansuis have been keeping you rockin',but the arrival of your GOTL will be a very welcome addition to your growing collection of amps.



Thanks Darrin. Missed this post. I thought that my interest in Head-fi is slowly dying but on the contrary it's never ending. There's no need to stop a wonderful hobby though.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> By the way if you're looking for the EL32 to c3g adapter, Mrs Xu does not make them anymore because I told her that the adapter might be a problem in the amp.
> 
> So if you want the adapter, I could talk to her again but seeing that her adapter has no key guide, it would be better to speak to Deyan about making a custom adapter for EL32.
> 
> However, you shouldn't think that EL32 is the 'be all and end all' of all tubes in the GOTL. There are a lot of drivers and power tubes that sound great in this amp.


I have several Deyan adapters and I am currently a happy user of the EL8. Even though I have the EL32 I am not keen on using it even though JV has no problems with them as long as he does not use them with 
6BL/BX7 tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> I have several Deyan adapters and I am currently a happy user of the EL8. Even though I have the EL32 I am not keen on using it even though JV has no problems with them as long as he does not use them with
> 6BL/BX7 tubes.



There's no problem running EL32 or EL11 with 6 x 6bx7gt. In my set up now, it's super quiet with no music playing. After Glenn change the resistor in my amp, I feel it's even quieter now especially when using 6 x 6bx7gt.

Oh well it's the only power tubes I've tried since getting back the amp. 

So all these talk about drivers not pairing well with 6bx7 or 6bl7 due to noise... well I never did believe it. You have to hear my amp now. I've been listening for several hours now I forgot it's lunchtime !


----------



## UntilThen

These foam tubes that Glenn use in the packaging makes a useful tube stands.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Thanks @UntilThen @mordy @rosgr63 @gibosi for the feedback!
> I believe everything is incorporated in my table now


Thanks for all your efforts!
Here are some Russian tubes to add. The 6H13C output tube is important because it is quiet and not expensive and sounds very good in the GOTL. Since the Cyrillic alphabet is used on the tubes the translation varies; in addition there are civilian designations of this tube:
Line 44: Please add 6N13P, 6N5P, 6N5S
If you wish, you could add a comment to all output tubes except for the ones with comments already: Use 1 or 2 pairs
Line 32: Please add 6N3P
Another major designation category left out from the list are British tubes with CV and cryptic designations instituted by the British tube industry to confuse people so as not to buy less expensive US tubes.
But maybe we should keep these secret in order to be able to snag good deals lol...
Line 39: CV2984 is GEC speak for 6080
Line 41: CV2523/A1834 is GEC speak for 6AS7G
Line 27: How about a 6/30L2  which is Philips/Mazda speak for an ECC804?
Not to mention US WW2 military designations using VT numbers. And you'll never guess what VT stands for - Vacuum Tube!:
Line 22: Add 6N7 which is also called VT-99
Line 19: Add VT-231 (6SN7)
And on and on - too much to look up all the WW2 designations for many of the tubes on the list but helpful when looking for them.
And let us not forget loctal versions of the 6SN7 such as 7N7 and 12V versions such as 14N7 and 14H7. And on and on....
What did I get myself into?


----------



## mordy

How do I post a very short video?


----------



## UntilThen

What do you mean. You have the video created? If so and you have the URL, then create a post, click on the media symbol and put your URL in it.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow Glenn, you fix a lot of my problems with that wonder resistor. My pair of Telefunken c3g/s (that Gibosi say is Siemens) used to hum and this is a NOS pair but is now ultra quiet. 

I even find it a joy now to listen to c3g with 6bx7gt.


----------



## UntilThen

Now running with Mullard ECC35 with 6 x 6bx7gt. This was my fav combo till I experimented with the El tubes. It's still a premier tone. With these classy drivers, I don't see how you would want to combine them in triplets fashion. There is absolutely no need for it. You want to listen to the ECC35 tone unadulterated.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Thanks for all your efforts!
> Here are some Russian tubes to add. The 6H13C output tube is important because it is quiet and not expensive and sounds very good in the GOTL. Since the Cyrillic alphabet is used on the tubes the translation varies; in addition there are civilian designations of this tube:
> Line 44: Please add 6N13P, 6N5P, 6N5S
> If you wish, you could add a comment to all output tubes except for the ones with comments already: Use 1 or 2 pairs
> ...


Other than the "12V versions such as 14N7 and 14H7" (since I was not sure which adapters if any they need) - I think I have made all the additions requested


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Wow Glenn, you fix a lot of my problems with that wonder resistor. My pair of Telefunken c3g/s (that Gibosi say is Siemens) used to hum and this is a NOS pair but is now ultra quiet.


I might have missed it earlier... what is this wonder resistor fix?!


----------



## UntilThen

Quoting Glenn on the resistor he use on my amp now...

_No worries they are high wattage and can't burn out even if the driver is shorted.
You can run any tubes you want.
_
They are just run of the mill high voltage resistor.


----------



## UntilThen

To finish the day's work, I had the EL8 in with 6 x 6bx7gt. There's a lot to like about this combination even though it's lighter on bass but I'm quite adaptive. I could live with light bass or heavy bass. Just depends on the mood I'm in. 

This is airy and has a lot of details. Very good imaging. A very good sound I'd say. You could just leave these on and just enjoy your music. Again I can't see it needing an extra driver to boost it. However I'm not bias. I'll just try the combination Mordy requested later.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright the combination Mordy requested. Namely Mazda 6N7G (aka Visseaux 6N7G) + 2 x EL32 + 2 x Svetlana 6H13C.

This combination sounded soft and diffused. This is with HD800 as transducer and Yggy as source. It's listenable but not what I could call better than the combinations I've posted today. Of course this is my opinion so don't lose sleep over it if you happen to love this combo.

In my opinion, the Svetlana 6H13C power tubes are ordinary and I'd take 6 x 6bx7gt or Tung Sol 5998 over a pair of those Svetlana any day or night. Even the Mullard 6080 would be better. Also I do not see any advantage of going triplets with Mazda 6N7G with 2 x EL32. 

Frankly, 2 x EL32 with 6 x 6bx7gt has so much more punch and liveliness. YMMV.

All these combinations are quiet in my amp. Notice that my volume knob is above the 12 noon mark for this combo. It's quite soft.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
Try Visseux, EL8 and Bendix 6080 and see if it sounds better to you.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Try Visseux, EL8 and Bendix 6080 and see if it sounds better to you.



Alright that's a 30 minutes warm up so I'll have to try it tonight. It's now time to pick up my wife who I'd say to, that I've a rather busy day.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Alright that's a 30 minutes warm up so I'll have to try it tonight. It's now time to pick up my wife who I'd say to, that I've a rather busy day.


Family first.....


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Try Visseux, EL8 and Bendix 6080 and see if it sounds better to you.



Ok the wife will have to wait for this important task. 

This is my evaluation... I will call a spade a spade.

And in this instance the spade happens to sound really good. Now the dynamics is back and there's punch and that bass weight that the Bendix is famed for. The truth is I feel that the Bendix has lift the game here. Not surprising. It's a damn fine power tube. 

Also replacing the EL32 with EL8 has lifted the gain. 

That said it's not better than EL11 or EL32 or ECC35 or Svlvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6bx7gt. Different sound signature for sure. This is the versatility of the GOTL. 

In all these combinations, I have a very quiet noise floor now. A total respect for this OTL amp.


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations Matt,

Beautiful amp, enjoy the music!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> By the way if you're looking for the EL32 to c3g adapter, Mrs Xu does not make them anymore because I told her that the adapter might be a problem in the amp.
> 
> So if you want the adapter, I could talk to her again but seeing that her adapter has no key guide, it would be better to speak to Deyan about making a custom adapter for EL32.
> 
> However, you shouldn't think that EL32 is the 'be all and end all' of all tubes in the GOTL. There are a lot of drivers and power tubes that sound great in this amp.



I went over Mrs Xu adapter and it was all right followed the traces on the circuit board plus used my meter. I liked it's low profile the EL32s you sent with the amp
one of them was noisy but they sounded very good.


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> I might have missed it earlier... what is this wonder resistor fix?!



You already have the new resistor in your amp.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Congratulations Matt,
> 
> Beautiful amp, enjoy the music!!!



Hi Stavros, it's great to hear from you. Trust you're keeping well and enjoying our music is the joy of life at this age.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I went over Mrs Xu adapter and it was all right followed the traces on the circuit board plus used my meter. I liked it's low profile the EL32s you sent with the amp
> one of them was noisy but they sounded very good.



Yes I'm back to 2 x EL32 (coke bottle ones) with 6 x 6bx7gt. I love this tone. There is a wide spread soundstage with sweet tingling musical notes. I will explore this tube more. Haven't tried the straight EL32 yet since it's return.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Yes I'm back to 2 x EL32 (coke bottle ones) with 6 x 6bx7gt. I love this tone. There is a wide spread soundstage with sweet tingling musical notes. I will explore this tube more. Haven't tried the straight EL32 yet since it's return.



One of them is noisy unless you have another pair?


----------



## UntilThen (May 22, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> One of them is noisy unless you have another pair?



No I have only one pair of the straight EL32 but I have 4 coke bottle shape Mullard EL32. These sound lovely now.

These are the ones I bought.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VT52-EL...m2ce01595dd:g:ezwAAOSwIbtb95lG&frcectupt=true


----------



## whirlwind

Looks like fu


UntilThen said:


> These foam tubes that Glenn use in the packaging makes a useful tube stands.




Great idea to re-purpose the packing noodles...I will try this


----------



## UntilThen

Went back to Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp and like it a lot. This could be my daily driver with 6 x 6bx7gt. It's a wholesome tone. I'll stop changing tubes and just get on with listening to music.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

2359glenn said:


> You already have the new resistor in your amp.



a very worthwhile delay waiting @2359glenn to diagnose @UntilThen 's amp for us in line


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> Ok the wife will have to wait for this important task.
> 
> This is my evaluation... I will call a spade a spade.
> 
> ...



UT - your poison is bad.  Now i feel like picking up a Sylvania metal base.  RIP wallet


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> I'll stop changing tubes and just get on with listening to music.


What's the fun in that?!


----------



## Velozity (May 22, 2019)

Zachik said:


> OK - here is a link (will add to initial post as well):
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHcgqSa16WqaAjwUYoE3eZlSfmaSluQFVYqY1pry-NI/edit?usp=sharing




Great job, thanks.  Add the 421A to line 41 (or create a separate line for it).  Also add VT-163 to line 28.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> UT - your poison is bad.  Now i feel like picking up a Sylvania metal base.  RIP wallet



That's one less NOS Sylvania 6sn7w metal base on this planet earth. 

This is a very classy driver and one that I love a lot.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> What's the fun in that?!



Well my resolution didn't last long now I have switch to the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6bx7gt.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve received the 7316 and they are very good tubes. Holographic and wide sound stage with good extension on both ends. Definitely in my top ten for driver tubes. Thanks for the recommendation!



Alright now you've got my attention. Now what is this 7316 and what adapter is required?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UsoppNoKami said:


> UT - your poison is bad.  Now i feel like picking up a Sylvania metal base.  RIP wallet





UntilThen said:


> That's one less NOS Sylvania 6sn7w metal base on this planet earth.
> 
> This is a very classy driver and one that I love a lot.



It is a fantastic tube, the praise is well-deserved!  An alternative it the 6SN7W black base tall bottle.  Same tube, different base, but I'm afraid it won't save you any money


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> It is a fantastic tube, the praise is well-deserved!  An alternative it the 6SN7W black base tall bottle.  Same tube, different base, but I'm afraid it won't save you any money



You've just added another $50 to the price of a 6sn7w metal base.


----------



## UntilThen

OMG I'm a rich man now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Sy...144245?hash=item1a7b70de75:g:RScAAOSwJT9c0a1b

There's another NOS tube from Taiwan that is asking for US$459 - for one tube !

See I only paid GBP175 for mine from Langrex.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 22, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> You've just added another $50 to the price of a 6sn7w metal base.



The eBay spies are everywhere, but the people need to know.

Edit: recently picked up a pair of tall bottles for $150 USD, keep your eyes peeled


----------



## Wes S

UntilThen said:


> OMG I'm a rich man now.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Sy...144245?hash=item1a7b70de75:g:RScAAOSwJT9c0a1b
> 
> There's another NOS tube from Taiwan that is asking for US$459 - for one tube !
> ...


Have you had good results with Langrex?


----------



## UntilThen

Wes S said:


> Have you had good results with Langrex?



I have always. I bought a number of NOS tubes from them and they arrived looking spanking new and looking new and of course play well.

Of the top of my head, I bought:-

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
Mullard ECC31
Tung Sol 5998
Mullard M8136


----------



## Wes S

UntilThen said:


> I have always. I bought a number of NOS tubes from them and they arrived looking spanking new and looking new and of course play well.
> 
> Of the top of my head, I bought:-
> 
> ...


Awesome!  Thanks for the info!


----------



## Zachik

Velozity said:


> Great job, thanks.  Add the 421A to line 41 (or create a separate line for it).  Also add VT-163 to line 28.


Done!


----------



## UntilThen

This is such a beautiful tone that I'll just play till the tubes dies.  Vocals are so sweeet !


----------



## UntilThen

The Fivre 6bx7gt are great but I have only 3 and I couldn't find them anymore ! Anyone has 3 to sell to me?


----------



## whirlwind (May 22, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> The Fivre 6bx7gt are great but I have only 3 and I couldn't find them anymore ! Anyone has 3 to sell to me?



Probably going to be tough to find three all at once...there are a couple on e-bay right now....both single tube options though.

It can be tough to find six tubes that match pretty well from any of the brands at this point....maybe GE, RCA, Tung Sol if you get lucky.

It takes awhile to put together a nice set of six tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Wes S said:


> Have you had good results with Langrex?



I always had good deals with Langrex
I bought ten 13D1s
and two L63s
A couple of months ago all good tubes great to deal with!


----------



## UntilThen

Oh yes I bought a pair of Brimar 13D1 from Langrex too for peanuts price.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Congrats @UntilThen on the return of your GOTL.

The EL32's (mine are straight bottle) make for a great driver triplet, too.  Better than just EL32's...try it with a 6N7 and a pair of 2x gain power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

The Brimar 13D1 is such an understated tube. It plays up to the sonics of the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. For 10 pounds each, it's a steal. Runs at 25volts. Pity the market doesn't have it anymore. I gave one to Monsterzero.

And as usual  the amp is dead silent now running Brimar 13D1 with 6 x 6bx7gt. This combo had some noise before. Bonus now !


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> Other than the "12V versions such as 14N7 and 14H7" (since I was not sure which adapters if any they need) - I think I have made all the additions requested



Use a 7N7 to 6SN7 adapter and then set the amp to use 12 volt drivers.

Also, 

< Glenn: The 5R4 has the highest voltage drop. People not impressed in general.>

I think that it is true that people are not impressed with the RCA 5R4GY, me included. But in my opinion, the European variants manufactured by Philips, Brimar and Fivre are quite good.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> The Brimar 13D1 is such an understated tube. It plays up to the sonics of the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. For 10 pounds each, it's a steal. Runs at 25volts. Pity the market doesn't have it anymore. I gave one to Monsterzero.
> 
> And as usual  the amp is dead silent now running Brimar 13D1 with 6 x 6bx7gt. This combo had some noise before. Bonus now !



The 13D1 is one o the best drivers for the money.
My very first OTL only ran on the 13D1 and 1633 the transformer had a 25 volt winding for them.
But everybody wanted to use a 6SN7.  WHY?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Use a 7N7 to 6SN7 adapter and then set the amp to use 12 volt drivers.
> 
> Also,
> 
> ...



Never tried the European 5R4s
only RCA and GE , Raytheon


----------



## UntilThen

The next tube in the spotlight is the RCA 5691 - Voltage = 6.3volt , Current = 0.6 amp

If you think I've gone over the darkside with the pentodes as strapped triodes, you are wrong. I still love (as much) the 6sn7 variants or in this case the 6SL7 variants.

The 5691, 5692 and 5693 are RCA special red tubes, so called because of the red base. It also appears in other brands with different colour base. The electrical characteristics of the 5691, 5692 and 5693 are very similar to 6SL7gt, 6SN7gt and 6SJ7 respectively. These are well built and claimed to have 10,000 hours of operating life under ideal conditions.

Tonally, the RCA 5691 sound a bit similar to the Brimar 13D1 and a bit less so with the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base but then nothing sounds like the 6sn7w metal.

In my opinion, the RCA 5691 make it to my top ten drivers for the GOTL. What I have here is branded Raytheon Uniline.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> But everybody wanted to use a 6SN7. WHY?



Because variety is the spice of life.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Oh yes I bought a pair of Brimar 13D1 from Langrex too for peanuts price.


When was that?  They do not have them anymore. At least not listed on their store...


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> Use a 7N7 to 6SN7 adapter and then set the amp to use 12 volt drivers.
> 
> Also,
> 
> ...


Updated the table - thanks for the info!


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> When was that?  They do not have them anymore. At least not listed on their store...



Early 2018. They don't have it now.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Early 2018. They don't have it now.


Late to the party... sigh...
Seems like all the good stuff that used to be very cheap is either all gone or cost WAY more!


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> December 2017 comes flooding back now as I relived the wonders of first hearing the GOTL. Amazing is an understatement.
> 
> Now I want to get in the queue for a GEL3N.



Good to see the GOTL has returned home. 
Enjoyed all the pics as you reaquaint yourself with that great tube collection.
Great amp, whether you roll a lot or a little, just a great amp.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Good to see the GOTL has returned home.
> Enjoyed all the pics as you reaquaint yourself with that great tube collection.
> Great amp, whether you roll a lot or a little, just a great amp.



Thanks Ros. Trust you're keeping well. It's good to see old friends still around.


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> When was that?  They do not have them anymore. At least not listed on their store...



They are not on there website.  This tube is not popular even though it sounds great nobody can use it unless they have one
of my amps. Or are still using some old avionics.
You have to go to the stock list then tubes page 4 it says they have 90 of them.
Then send E-Mail with quantity you want they will get back to you with price in 24 hrs.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> The Brimar 13D1 is such an understated tube. It plays up to the sonics of the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. For 10 pounds each, it's a steal. Runs at 25volts. Pity the market doesn't have it anymore. I gave one to Monsterzero.
> 
> And as usual  the amp is dead silent now running Brimar 13D1 with 6 x 6bx7gt. This combo had some noise before. Bonus now !



This is a gem of a tube for the price they used to sell for....not sure the cost of them now,
So is the RCA smoked glass 1633....at one time these were $4 each.

Two great tubes with different but nice sonic attributes.  I do prefer the Brimar.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> This is a gem of a tube for the price they used to sell for....not sure the cost of them now,
> So is the RCA smoked glass 1633....at one time these were $4 each.
> 
> Two great tubes with different but nice sonic attributes.  I do prefer the Brimar.



The 1633 is still $4 cant beat that for a 1940s RCA


----------



## UntilThen

I saw a video by Bunny Craig on Glenn's OTL amp unboxing and I had to smile because even though it's the 2nd time for me, I couldn't help but think that is the best packaging I've seen.

However, much as I could write a paragraph on the packaging, I'm here more to tell you about this OTL amp and how much I love the sound of it.

One could not accuse the GOTL of being bright and lean or tubby and bloaty. It straddles the middle realm of bright and warm. Yes tubes can influence that but the general characteristics of the OTL amp is one of dynamics, speed, punch and subtlety. In the midst of all that, it still maintains the liquid slight shade of tube warm which had I not heard this amp, I couldn't properly define it.

Anyway, I'm revisiting my tubes with this amp again. This time with Siemens c3g and Tung Sol 5998. I am still on HD800 and Yggy. I'm still convinced that the HD800 is best with this amp. Incredible synergy. However once I settle in to the new job, I shall look at acquiring a ZMF Verite and see how that sounds on the GOTL. 

So I've decided to listen to the Sage and have put on socket savers in my amp - and so should you ! Btw if your sockets are loose, you can tighten it gently by using a small flat screw driver and push the metal clips in the sockets holes closer together. Pull out the power plug first ! Now mine are tight. 

Here's the astonishing vibrant sound of c3g and 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> This is a gem of a tube for the price they used to sell for....not sure the cost of them now,
> So is the RCA smoked glass 1633....at one time these were $4 each.
> 
> Two great tubes with different but nice sonic attributes.  I do prefer the Brimar.



The RCA and Ken Rad 1633 will be rolled in next. I've a mandate to finish this rolling before I set off south on Sat. Of course the OTL, tubes and headphones will go with me. 

Sounds like Monkey on the journey to the West.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> .... I'm here more to tell you about this OTL amp and how much I love the sound of it.
> 
> One could not accuse the GOTL of being bright and lean or tubby and bloaty. It straddles the middle realm of bright and warm. Yes tubes can influence that but the general characteristics of the OTL amp is one of dynamics, speed, punch and subtlety. In the midst of all that, it still maintains the liquid slight shade of tube warm which had I not heard this amp, I couldn't properly define it.



@UntilThen - I did not bite on the 6SN7W poison, tho I will admit watching those pricey tubes for the past 2 months lol.  

Really looking forward to my GOTL !


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The 1633 is still $4 cant beat that for a 1940s RCA



Wow, if they are still $4  they are indeed hard to beat...you have to like a warm sound, but if you do these are killer tubes.






UntilThen said:


> I saw a video by Bunny Craig on Glenn's OTL amp unboxing and I had to smile because even though it's the 2nd time for me, I couldn't help but think that is the best packaging I've seen.
> 
> However, much as I could write a paragraph on the packaging, I'm here more to tell you about this OTL amp and how much I love the sound of it.
> 
> ...



What a great combo....Yeah man.....GOTL and high impedance headphones are so sweet!
Years ago when I contacted Glenn about an amp for HD800, he recommended his OTL....I never looked back and have never even wanted to hear another OTL.
All high impedance headphones that I have plugged into it sound good.
Nice to see you put those socket savers in....

Great to see you have tubes again!


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> @UntilThen - I did not bite on the 6SN7W poison, tho I will admit watching those pricey tubes for the past 2 months lol.
> 
> Really looking forward to my GOTL !



Mr Kenji, you have enough poison in your arsenal. So what is one less poison?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> Mr Kenji, you have enough poison in your arsenal. So what is one less poison?



A fatter wallet.  lol


----------



## UntilThen

The RCA 1633 came with Ulysses in Dec 2017. It's a gift from Glenn. Even have the original box.

Here in this combination it's hardly a warm tone. Maybe I haven't burn it in yet lol. I have so many drivers, this tube didn't get much chance. Maybe it's also the 6 x assorted 6BL7gt/gta power tubes I'm using now. I find the 6BL7 brighter than the 6BX7. Also more energetic. More punch. Now that the new resistor has given me more volume play, the 6BL7 are in contention again. I am ok with either 6BX7 or 6BL7. As long as it's a 6 barrel load. In sextet form, it's a formidable tone to any 5998, 6as7, 6080.

I think they look and sound really good here. The sound of the power tubes are more dominant here - that's my opinion.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> The RCA and Ken Rad 1633 will be rolled in next. I've a mandate to finish this rolling before I set off south on Sat. Of course the OTL, tubes and headphones will go with me.
> 
> Sounds like Monkey on the journey to the West.


Don't forget the DAC, and good luck with the new job. Glad to see you are rolling again. Rolling is for fun.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Don't forget the DAC, and good luck with the new job. Glad to see you are rolling again. Rolling is for fun.



Thanks ! I'm taking Yggy along for sure. Re the new job, it's what I've been doing for 30 plus years except I'm going to a different place now. .. with my Head-fi gear in tow.


----------



## UntilThen

The Ken Rad 1633 is a creamier tone that the RCA 1633. It's more saturated and I love the texture. Especially the famed Ken Rad bass. Somehow I find the Ken Rad 1633 better than my Ken Rad 6sn7gt black glass. The texture is more mature. It's like aged wine. One sip and you know it's the real deal.

With such classy tones, I can't really say that the EL3N and EL11 are better - just different tones. What I know is that the GOTL sound like no other OTL amp I've had in the past or heard. It's the amp that I'm most captivated with.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Good listenin’ peeps


----------



## rosgr63

A nice sounding Sylvania and a favourite of mine is the 6SN7W short base with the lower mica inside the base


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> A nice sounding Sylvania and a favourite of mine is the 6SN7W short base with the lower mica inside the base



You mean this?


----------



## rosgr63

The two middle ones


----------



## UntilThen

Aren't they all the same or are my eyes failing me?


----------



## rosgr63

Are all micas recessed?
I can’t tell from the photo

If they are they should be the same


----------



## UntilThen

Yeah they are all recessed. I have 2 of those but I don't use it much. One of them is noisy and I forget to mark it.


----------



## rosgr63

Come on Matt..........


----------



## UntilThen

There you go, the shortie. 

Nearly identical to the metal base except I hear it with a fuller tone. The metal base is more precise. Could be the age difference of my tubes. Nevertheless a 6sn7w is gorgeous sounding.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> There you go, the shortie.
> 
> Nearly identical to the metal base except I hear it with a fuller tone. The metal base is more precise. Could be the age difference of my tubes. Nevertheless a 6sn7w is gorgeous sounding.



It’s definitely a great tube and I agree on the differences between them. 

By the way, never answered your question on the 7316. It’s a 12AU7 equivalent tube and works with a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter. Amperex made. Great extension and holography but it has a diffuse sound on the sides then the focus comes in the middle. Detailed, warm, with good extension on both end.


----------



## UntilThen

Ah thanks I thought it's in the same mold as the the 7308 but that's a 6922 family.


----------



## UntilThen

This Marconi B36 that I got from Stavros is beautiful sounding. Mr Stavros do you have more nice tubes that you want to part with?


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Yeah they are all recessed. I have 2 of those but I don't use it much. One of them is noisy and I forget to mark it.


Send me the noisy one. If I fix it, I'll get to keep it.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Mordy it's yours. Do your magic and keep it or bin it.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> This Marconi B36 that I got from Stavros is beautiful sounding. Mr Stavros do you have more nice tubes that you want to part with?



Yes Matt I do


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Yeah they are all recessed. I have 2 of those but I don't use it much. One of them is noisy and I forget to mark it.



I have a few of these and they are all too noisy for my liking....still trying to find a nice quiet one.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 23, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> It’s definitely a great tube and I agree on the differences between them.
> 
> By the way, never answered your question on the 7316. It’s a 12AU7 equivalent tube and works with a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter. Amperex made. Great extension and holography but it has a diffuse sound on the sides then the focus comes in the middle. Detailed, warm, with good extension on both end.



Sort of an oddball, but another 12AU7 equivalent I'd highly recommend is the Brimar CV4034, a flying lead tube.  Takes some work to solder it to an adapter, but worth it IMO, best 12AU7 I have heard.  If you really like it and have had enough of tube rolling, you can solder it directly to your amp 

TubeMonger tells me they will be getting them back in stock with the adapters pre-installed in 2-3 months.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Alright Mordy it's yours. Do your magic and keep it or bin it.


Thanks, I'll give them a try - PM sent


----------



## UntilThen

Wow my jaw dropped when I saw this.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Valve-t...240391?hash=item5d8a5bf347:g:0CAAAOSwp-Fcu~d5


----------



## UntilThen

The cost back in the mid 70s was a few dollars for each of these. Take me back to the 70s !


----------



## mordy (May 23, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> The cost back in the mid 70s was a few dollars for each of these. Take me back to the 70s !


And don't worry - if somebody snaps up this lot, these are only half of his stock of the ECC33....

The seller states that one reason for the high price is that he bought 19,000 tubes 50 years ago when the Philips Hendon plant closed, and some of them are worth less today than what he paid for them. And, I forgot, he also paid sales tax then.
Langrex sold a similar tube for less than half the asking price of this seller a few weeks ago ($332 vs $688) so my impression is that this seller supercalifragilisticexplialadocious is somewhat unrealistic.


_"My cost back then was an average of a few dollars each Keep in mind I did pay sales tax on the transaction at the time and many of the 19,000 I purchased were TV valves of somewhat less value today."_


----------



## UntilThen

I'm going to get one ECC33 from Stavros and it has to be silent as a lamb. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ecc33-tubes.864508/ 

Unfortunately my new Haltron ECC33 has some noise and I can't stand noise. Even my used ECC35 has some noise. So they will be replaced. Right now my best silent tubes are the 

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
GEC B36
Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp
Mullard ECC31


----------



## UntilThen

This GEC B36 came from Stavros. I received it as NOS NIB with the original GEC box and it's as quiet as my superb Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. Tonally it's not as cutting edge as the 6sn7w but neither do I find it too warm or too bright. It's a great tone in the mold of the quality GEC tubes.

This is definitely one of my favourite driver in the GOTL.


----------



## Monsterzero (May 24, 2019)

Tonight im dancin' across the water with guitar god Warren Haynes+DMB


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I'm going to get one ECC33 from Stavros and it has to be silent as a lamb.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ecc33-tubes.864508/
> 
> Unfortunately my new Haltron ECC33 has some noise and I can't stand noise.
> ...


----------



## lukeap69

My Haltron 6AS7 are again taking their turn and boy do these sound great? I think they are one of the best in my collection if not the best. Finesse, oomph, wonderful timbre, etc. it's all there. I almost forgot I have these had I not opened my vault looking for something else.


----------



## mordy

lukeap69 said:


> My Haltron 6AS7 are again taking their turn and boy do these sound great? I think they are one of the best in my collection if not the best. Finesse, oomph, wonderful timbre, etc. it's all there. I almost forgot I have these had I not opened my vault looking for something else.


Are those Haltrons rebranded GEC tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

Was at a Karaoke bar last night as a send off from my friends, singing It's My Life - hilarious.


----------



## gibosi

I have been rolling through rectifiers to see which one seems to have the best synergy with the clear-top 5998s and the WIRAG EL3N, and I think I have settled on the Cossor 53KU.

(Oh, I recently picked up a Pixel 3 cellphone and this was taken using "Night Sight". A pretty nice pic if I do say so myself..


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> (Oh, I recently picked up a Pixel 3 cellphone and this was taken using "Night Sight". A pretty nice pic if I do say so myself..



Well done with the photo Ken. I like the clarity and colours. These phone's camera are amazing. I rarely use my DSLR anymore and even at work, my S8 is more than sufficient for photos attached on my reports.


----------



## Phantaminum

Really enjoying this combination right now with the Verite.

National Union 6SL7 and Bendix 6080WBs.


----------



## 2359glenn

Was listening to my Auteur and one o my Ericsson EL3s went bad stared popping and static.
I thought it was neat to have a pair of these don't really know who made them but oh well no good now.


----------



## SonicTrance

2359glenn said:


> Was listening to my Auteur and one o my Ericsson EL3s went bad stared popping and static.
> I thought it was neat to have a pair of these don't really know who made them but oh well no good now.


Ericsson is a Swedish company. Dont know if they made tubes though.


----------



## rosgr63

SonicTrance said:


> Ericsson is a Swedish company. Dont know if they made tubes though.



They made some great tubes here's a pair of mine some have gold pins.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> Was at a Karaoke bar last night as a send off from my friends, singing It's My Life - hilarious.





Expected a video of you Matt singing........


----------



## SonicTrance

@rosgr63 Cool, I didn't know that.


----------



## attmci (May 25, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> It’s definitely a great tube and I agree on the differences between them.
> 
> By the way, never answered your question on the 7316. It’s a 12AU7 equivalent tube and works with a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter. Amperex made. Great extension and holography but it has a diffuse sound on the sides then the focus comes in the middle. Detailed, warm, with good extension on both end.



I purchased a pair of 12au7 to 6sn7 adapters a while ago, but had never tried these.

I am testing the 7316s on my other amp now and found these are amazing little tubes.  However,
it is getting more expensive......


----------



## whirlwind

Great pics guys.

Right when I am on the edge of getting a new rectifier and then I see that nice fat bottle Cossor .
Really cool what a camera phone can do.


----------



## rosgr63

5687 are nice sounding tubes too.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Expected a video of you Matt singing........



That was me .... Bon Jovi... 

I made it south with my OTL and Yggdrasil but forgot to bring the power cords ! &^%$*@ so have to get new ones today.


----------



## heliosphann

Phantaminum said:


> Really enjoying this combination right now with the Verite.
> 
> National Union 6SL7 and Bendix 6080WBs.



Nice. I've got a Bendix 6080WB for my Crack w/Speedball. First foray intro into tubes.



gibosi said:


> I have been rolling through rectifiers to see which one seems to have the best synergy with the clear-top 5998s and the WIRAG EL3N, and I think I have settled on the Cossor 53KU.
> 
> (Oh, I recently picked up a Pixel 3 cellphone and this was taken using "Night Sight". A pretty nice pic if I do say so myself..



I have a Pixel 3XL and it's camera is quite amazing.They put some black magic in that thing for sure.


----------



## mordy

SonicTrance said:


> Ericsson is a Swedish company. Dont know if they made tubes though.





2359glenn said:


> Was listening to my Auteur and one o my Ericsson EL3s went bad stared popping and static.
> I thought it was neat to have a pair of these don't really know who made them but oh well no good now.


Hi Glenn.
If the Ericsson tubes were labeled EL3D they were made by Hungarian Tungsram if I remember correctly. 
L.M. Ericsson did manufacture tubes. A Swedish 6SN7 variant (33s30) made for artillery pieces sells for mega dollars - well over $1000 for a single tube. It was made by Standard Radio of Sweden but I don't know if this company was owned by Ericsson.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

There is a nice NIB pair on eBay for a cool $3,900.  Could take out a loan, or maybe the seller has financing options.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/323811420462


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> There is a nice NIB pair on eBay for a cool $3,900.  Could take out a loan, or maybe the seller has financing options.
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/323811420462


What a steal!!!


----------



## rosgr63

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn.
> If the Ericsson tubes were labeled EL3D they were made by Hungarian Tungsram if I remember correctly.
> L.M. Ericsson did manufacture tubes. A Swedish 6SN7 variant (33s30) made for artillery pieces sells for mega dollars - well over $1000 for a single tube. It was made by Standard Radio of Sweden but I don't know if this company was owned by Ericsson.



Very similar to RCA 5962, here is a pair of SS33S30 with gold plated pins.

They were used in Beaufort gun turrets on vessels as they could withstand the hostile environment.


----------



## UntilThen

Yggy and the OTL amp set up now with Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and Fivre / Los Gatos 6 x 6bx7gt. It's all I need for a lovely music, lots of sunshine still, exercise and new friends. Life's wonderful and the music's incredible sounding.


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Very similar to RCA 5962, here is a pair of SS33S30 with gold plated pins.
> 
> They were used in Beaufort gun turrets on vessels as they could withstand the hostile environment.




I love hearing what the tubes were used for back in the day...thanks for the history lesson


----------



## whirlwind

I have been doing a little comparison between the sound of the ECC31 & ECC32 with my ZMF Atticus to determine if there is much difference to my ears.
At this point I would say not much...I will not rush to judgement and will listen for a week or so playing some of my favorite albums to be more certain.
It takes me awhile to wrap my head around a sound.

I am probably one of the few who use a digital camera now


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn.
> If the Ericsson tubes were labeled EL3D they were made by Hungarian Tungsram if I remember correctly.
> L.M. Ericsson did manufacture tubes. A Swedish 6SN7 variant (33s30) made for artillery pieces sells for mega dollars - well over $1000 for a single tube. It was made by Standard Radio of Sweden but I don't know if this company was owned by Ericsson.



They are EL3D and look like other EL3D I have from Tungsram. Sounded good for awhile now back to Philips EL3N.
Think the Philips EL3N sound better now that I switched back to them.


----------



## Althalus

rosgr63 said:


> Very similar to RCA 5962, here is a pair of SS33S30 with gold plated pins.
> 
> They were used in Beaufort gun turrets on vessels as they could withstand the hostile environment.


So these are the tubes to use with Metallica?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> I have been doing a little comparison between the sound of the ECC31 & ECC32 with my ZMF Atticus to determine if there is much difference to my ears.
> At this point I would say not much...I will not rush to judgement and will listen for a week or so playing some of my favorite albums to be more certain.
> It takes me awhile to wrap my head around a sound.
> 
> I am probably one of the few who use a digital camera now



Is that a cocobolo Atticus, Joe?  The wood grain is beautiful, would love to hear the Atticus bass in that wood.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Is that a cocobolo Atticus, Joe?  The wood grain is beautiful, would love to hear the Atticus bass in that wood.



Hi Keenan,

Yes it is a cocobolo Atticus, and thanks for your kind words. Zach's work is truly impeccable, such a wonderful craftsman.

It is not the hardest or the most dense wood...but it is right up there and it sounds wonderful. The slam of the bass is quite addicting.

Here it is with a fresh coat of polish...I need to polish again soon.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> It was made by Standard Radio of Sweden but I don't know if this company was owned by Ericsson.


Nope. It was an ITT company like STC in UK and Standard Elektrik Lorenz in Germany.


----------



## attmci

rosgr63 said:


> Very similar to RCA 5962, here is a pair of SS33S30 with gold plated pins.
> 
> They were used in Beaufort gun turrets on vessels as they could withstand the hostile environment.


Are these nice sounding tubes? Or just rare? How do they compare to the similar tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

I'm astonished at how similar sounding the Sansui AU-717 is to the GOTL with Sylvania 6sn7w metal and 6 x 6bx7gt.


----------



## 2359glenn (May 26, 2019)

I was thinking last night while building a amp.
The EL3N amp uses a CCS  (constant current source) on the driver EL3N.
What I was thinking was to use this on the OTL driver with a pot on the amp to adjust the plate current of the driver.
This would allow to get the perfect operating point for all tubes rolled in this position.
Or would this make things to complicated???  To many switches and knobs.
What do you guys think?


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> I was thinking last night while building a amp.
> The EL3N amp uses a CCS  (constant current source) on the driver EL3N.
> What I was thinking was to use this on the OTL driver with a pot on the amp to adjust the plate current of the driver.
> This would allow to get the perfect operating point for all tubes rolled in this position.
> ...



I love playing with knobs...

hehehe


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I was thinking last night while building a amp.
> The EL3N amp uses a CCS  (constant current source) on the driver EL3N.
> What I was thinking was to use this on the OTL driver with a pot on the amp to adjust the plate current of the driver.
> This would allow to get the perfect operating point for all tubes rolled in this position.
> ...



I really like the idea. But it does the beg the question: How is the perfect operating point determined? I assume it can be derived from the data sheets? Perhaps from one of the graphs?


----------



## Althalus

2359glenn said:


> I was thinking last night while building a amp.
> The EL3N amp uses a CCS  (constant current source) on the driver EL3N.
> What I was thinking was to use this on the OTL driver with a pot on the amp to adjust the plate current of the driver.
> This would allow to get the perfect operating point for all tubes rolled in this position.
> ...


I'm like a dog that is asleep and suddenly you see one ear popping up.......
I have the same question as gibosi. And as addition does having an additional knob cause more noise?


----------



## whirlwind

This may be a great idea, but like the others...what criteria for the operating points.


----------



## rosgr63

A table with the operating points and a meter is all that's needed to set the pot.


----------



## rosgr63

attmci said:


> Are these nice sounding tubes? Or just rare? How do they compare to the similar tubes?



They have the 5692 sound signature to me.


----------



## Monsterzero (May 26, 2019)

Heres a question from the less experienced tube rolling brigade...

If one can achieve perfect operating points determined by referencing data sheets via a knob adjustment,what would that accomplish in terms of sonic reproduction?
It seems it could be an optional addition. It might be overkill for the noob,unless of course the sound is night and day.

Would it be akin to the 5998 optimizer switch you already offer as an option?


----------



## rosgr63

Monsterzero said:


> Heres a question from the less experienced tube rolling brigade...
> 
> If one can achieve perfect operating points determined by referencing data sheets via a knob adjustment,what would that accomplish in terms of sonic reproduction?
> It seems it could be an optional addition. It might be overkill for the noob,unless of course the sound is night and day.
> ...




 If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, you've measured the wrong thing - *Daniel R. von Recklinghausen*


----------



## gibosi

rosgr63 said:


> A table with the operating points and a meter is all that's needed to set the pot.



Of course, armed with such a table the adjustment would be easy. But again, I suspect that someone, perhaps someone in this forum, would have to put this table together first.


----------



## rosgr63

gibosi said:


> Of course, armed with such a table the adjustment would be easy. But again, I suspect that someone, perhaps someone in this forum, would have to put this table together first.



And somebody would set the wrong voltage............


----------



## gibosi (May 26, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Heres a question from the less experienced tube rolling brigade...
> 
> If one can achieve perfect operating points determined by referencing data sheets via a knob adjustment,what would that accomplish in terms of sonic reproduction?
> It seems it could be an optional addition. It might be overkill for the noob,unless of course the sound is night and day.
> ...



Theoretically, tubes biased at their perfect operating points should sound better. But perhaps this is not always true?

For example, an ECC32 installed in a 6SN7 socket is not biased properly. And yet, some claim it sounds better than any properly biased 6SN7.

So maybe, just maybe, the reason the ECC32 sounds so great is exactly because it is biased incorrectly? Or maybe, just maybe, if it was biased correctly it would sound even better?

Being able to adjust the bias would allow us to determine if the perfect bias actually does sound better in each case.


----------



## rosgr63

One of the best drivers for the ECBA is the ECC35 even thought the amp uses 6SN7 drivers.


----------



## mordy

Hi Glenn,
It sounds like an appealing idea. How many more knobs and meters would it entail? One set for each channel if using the C3g sockets? And a third for the front driver position? Or, in the case of EL3N, is this meant for a dual socket in the front position?
And on a practical level, how do you actually do it? Setting the voltage, inserting the tube, looking at the chart and moving the knob to a certain position on the scale?
And finally, how much would it add to the price? Is a retrofit possible?


----------



## rosgr63

One fits all would be best


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> Nope. It was an ITT company like STC in UK and Standard Elektrik Lorenz in Germany.


Thanks for the information.


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> One of the best drivers for the ECBA is the ECC35 even thought the amp uses 6SN7 drivers.



The ECC32, ECC33,ECC35  tubes all come to mind....would be very interesting to see if they are biased correctly what differences it would make or if like Ken suggested...maybe they sound better not biased to spec.....technically biased properly would be ideal.


----------



## 2359glenn

One bad thing it would allow you to set the plate current way to high for the tube.
Then I thought a selector switch with resistors that clicks to the wright tube.  But you guys use so many different tubes this would be impossible.
And then a tube might sound better with a less then optimal setting that would make the pot better.
Have to think about this more.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> ECC32 installed in a 6SN7 socket is not biased properly. And yet, some claim it sounds better than any properly biased 6SN7.


The ECC32 is not on my list... (I do have ECC35 and ECC35)
Should I add it? and does it need an adapter??

Also, what about 6L6GC (or the Russian equivalent 6N3C)? would they work?  should I add to my compatibility table?


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> The ECC32 is not on my list... (I do have ECC35 and ECC35)
> Should I add it? and does it need an adapter??
> 
> Also, what about 6L6GC (or the Russian equivalent 6N3C)? would they work?  should I add to my compatibility table?


Hi Zachik,
Could not find the 6SL7 tube on your list. It is similar to the 6SN7 but with higher gain. ALL the tubes below are 6SL7 variants:
6SL7/VT-229, 5691, 7F7 (loctal base)
6H9C, 6N9S Russian
6N9P Chinese
ECC35 British
33S29 Swedish
And I am sure there are more variants.....


----------



## leftside

I'm currently having an amp built by a local builder, and I've opted for 3 different socket types for drivers: C3g (2), 6J5 (2) and a 6SN7 (1). There is also a selector knob on the front of the amp to select which drivers to use, and also the 6SN7 socket can take 12SN7, 6SL7 and 12SL7. All 6 options are selected via the selector knob. These are my chosen selections as I have a lot of these tubes, but I'm sure the selection choice could be endless...  perhaps others would prefer a EL32, EL3N, selector, etc.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Hi Zachik,
> Could not find the 6SL7 tube on your list. It is similar to the 6SN7 but with higher gain. ALL the tubes below are 6SL7 variants:
> 6SL7/VT-229, 5691, 7F7 (loctal base)
> 6H9C, 6N9S Russian
> ...


Updated my list - thanks!!
Also, started a list (at the bottom) of known NOT compatible tube types, just to prevent repeated newbie (like me) questions  
Lastly, at some point soon, I will start a change log.  That would help people who check the table occasionally to figure out what has changed instead of comparing row-by-row...


----------



## rosgr63

mordy said:


> Hi Zachik,
> Could not find the 6SL7 tube on your list. It is similar to the 6SN7 but with higher gain. ALL the tubes below are 6SL7 variants:
> 6SL7/VT-229, 5691, 7F7 (loctal base)
> 6H9C, 6N9S Russian
> ...



Add the wonderful 6SU7


----------



## rosgr63

Remember the plate voltage for the 6SL7 should be lower than 200V which is not the case with 6SN7


----------



## rosgr63

leftside said:


> I'm currently having an amp built by a local builder, and I've opted for 3 different socket types for drivers: C3g (2), 6J5 (2) and a 6SN7 (1). There is also a selector knob on the front of the amp to select which drivers to use, and also the 6SN7 socket can take 12SN7, 6SL7 and 12SL7. All 6 options are selected via the selector knob. These are my chosen selections as I have a lot of these tubes, but I'm sure the selection choice could be endless...  perhaps others would prefer a EL32, EL3N, selector, etc.



That will be an awesome amp


----------



## rosgr63

mordy said:


> Hi Zachik,
> Could not find the 6SL7 tube on your list. It is similar to the 6SN7 but with higher gain. ALL the tubes below are 6SL7 variants:
> 6SL7/VT-229, 5691, 7F7 (loctal base)
> 6H9C, 6N9S Russian
> ...



Mordy if I remember well the 7F7 and 7AF7 are similar in characters to the 6SN7 not the 6SL7

Need to check the data sheet to be sure


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Hi Keenan,
> 
> Yes it is a cocobolo Atticus, and thanks for your kind words. Zach's work is truly impeccable, such a wonderful craftsman.
> 
> ...



Zach really is a true craftsman, they look incredible.  I own a cocobolo Auteur myself, the wood does great things for the bottom end, it's probably about time I put some polish on myself.  One must own two ZMF headphones, one for staring and one for listening at all times


----------



## SonicTrance

rosgr63 said:


> Remember the plate voltage for the 6SL7 should be lower than 200V which is not the case with 6SN7


Typical operation for 6SL7 is 250V according to datasheet. Max rating is 300V.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> One bad thing it would allow you to set the plate current way to high for the tube.
> Then I thought a selector switch with resistors that clicks to the wright tube.  But you guys use so many different tubes this would be impossible.
> And then a tube might sound better with a less then optimal setting that would make the pot better.
> Have to think about this more.



I'm just imagining a scenario where a child or mortal enemy fiddles with your biasing knob when you step away for a moment and you forget to recheck it.  Is there such thing as a locking potentiometer?  

Might sacrifice some usability for better sound quality, but that has never stopped audiophiles before


----------



## attmci (May 26, 2019)

gibosi said:


> Theoretically, tubes biased at their perfect operating points should sound better. But perhaps this is not always true?
> 
> For example, an ECC32 installed in a 6SN7 socket is not biased properly. And yet, some claim it sounds better than any properly biased 6SN7.
> 
> ...


The reason we prefer a tube amp to  a SS amp is due to the nice distortion.

BTW, eBay begun to collect tax in a number of states..... including mine.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I'm just imagining a scenario where a child or mortal enemy fiddles with your biasing knob when you step away for a moment and you forget to recheck it.  Is there such thing as a locking potentiometer?
> 
> Might sacrifice some usability for better sound quality, but that has never stopped audiophiles before



It burns up your precious tube.
Your right not a good idea.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> One of the best drivers for the ECBA is the ECC35 even thought the amp uses 6SN7 drivers.



For me, this is also true with GOTL.


----------



## mordy

rosgr63 said:


> Mordy if I remember well the 7F7 and 7AF7 are similar in characters to the 6SN7 not the 6SL7
> Need to check the data sheet to be sure



Hi rosgr63,
This is what the Radiomuseum says about the 7F7:
7F7 = VT-189 = CV893
Similar Tubes
Heater different:
14F7
Other base:
6SL7GT

And this is what it says about the 7AF7:
7AF7
Similar Tubes
Heater different:
14AF7
Predecessor Tubes 6AH7GT
Successor Tubes 12AU7


----------



## UntilThen

My top ten drivers in no order of merit:-

ECC35
ECC33
ECC31
Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp
RCA 5691
GEC B36
c3g
EL11
EL3N

I just loaded the 12SL7GT without changing the voltage to 12.6.  

2 mins later I realise that and change it. This is waking up at 7:30am.


----------



## Phantaminum (May 26, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi rosgr63,
> This is what the Radiomuseum says about the 7F7:
> 7F7 = VT-189 = CV893
> Similar Tubes
> ...



Glenn made a point earlier in this thread about the 7AF7/14AF7 tubes. They do turn microphonic or become noisy. Out of all three that I have, they started off fine and then static or a very significant background noise kicked developed. 7N7s are good tubes though.


----------



## mordy (May 26, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> My top ten drivers in no order of merit:-
> 
> ECC35
> ECC33
> ...


Hi UT,
I assume that you use all the above with 6x6BX7?
Re the voltage switch nothing will happen if you put in a regular tube with the wrong voltage applied. BUT, if you use a tube with an adapter with the amp set at the wrong voltage, you may risk damaging the tube. In other words, if you forgot and left the voltage switch on 12V and put in a 6V 6F8G that needs an adapter, it might get damaged.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I'm currently having an amp built by a local builder, and I've opted for 3 different socket types for drivers: C3g (2), 6J5 (2) and a 6SN7 (1). There is also a selector knob on the front of the amp to select which drivers to use, and also the 6SN7 socket can take 12SN7, 6SL7 and 12SL7. All 6 options are selected via the selector knob. These are my chosen selections as I have a lot of these tubes, but I'm sure the selection choice could be endless...  perhaps others would prefer a EL32, EL3N, selector, etc.



This is nice. With the exception of the 6J5 tube, I've sampled all the others in the OTL amp.

If I had to do it again, it would still be the amp that I have. The only options I had were the Gold Point 37 steps attenuator and the 5998 boost switch. The attenuator is nice and I have not regretted spending an extra $300 for it.

But I might consider a tube rectifier just because I'm curious about what sound changes that would bring.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> I assume that you use all the above with 6x6BX7?



Yes all with the 6BX7 or 6BL7 tubes.

The only other power tubes that I brought along are:-

Tung Sol 5998
GEC 6080
Cetron 6336b

I should be happy with these through the cold winter here.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Glenn made a point earlier in this thread about the 7AF7/14AF7 tubes. They do turn microphonic or become noisy. Out of all three that I have, they started off fine and then static or a very significant background noise kicked developed. 7N7s are good tubes though.


Speaking about 7N7 tubes, does anybody have experience with this WW2 version in the GOTL?


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Yes all with the 6BX7 or 6BL7 tubes.
> 
> The only other power tubes that I brought along are:-
> 
> ...


I am using two pairs together of 6080 tubes by Bendix and RCA to battle the A/C.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> I'm just imagining a scenario where a child or mortal enemy fiddles with your biasing knob when you step away for a moment and you forget to recheck it.  Is there such thing as a locking potentiometer?


To adjust the bias on the 300B amp you need a screwdriver, or a strong finger nail.


----------



## Zachik

rosgr63 said:


> Add the wonderful 6SU7


Are these a replacement (i.e. no adapter) for 6SN7 ?
What is the difference (so I can add a note)? Different gain?


----------



## Zachik

rosgr63 said:


> Remember the plate voltage for the 6SL7 should be lower than 200V which is not the case with 6SN7





SonicTrance said:


> Typical operation for 6SL7 is 250V according to datasheet. Max rating is 300V.



So... what's the practical implication?  Do I need to change anything or add a note in my table?


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Hi rosgr63,
> This is what the Radiomuseum says about the 7F7:
> 7F7 = VT-189 = CV893
> Similar Tubes
> ...


I have added VT-189 and CV893 to the table, along with more info at the note field.
Should I add 7AF7 as well? Is it GOTL approved? 
If so - what is the difference between the 7F7 and 7AF7?


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> Glenn made a point earlier in this thread about the 7AF7/14AF7 tubes. They do turn microphonic or become noisy. Out of all three that I have, they started off fine and then static or a very significant background noise kicked developed. 7N7s are good tubes though.


Interesting - I will add these to the table with appropriate note / warning...
Do 7AF7/14AF7 tubes use same adapter as 7N7 / 7F7 ?
is the difference higher gain?  something else? (compared to 7F7 / 14F7 respectively)


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Are these a replacement (i.e. no adapter) for 6SN7 ?
> What is the difference (so I can add a note)? Different gain?



The Tung Sol 6SU7gty is a premier 6SL7.

The 6SL7 is a high gain low current tube whilst the 6SN7 is a lower gain and high current tube. 6SN7 has an amplification factor of 20 while the 6SL7 is 70.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> My top ten drivers in no order of merit:-
> 
> ECC35
> ECC33
> ...



You brought all those tubes with you?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You brought all those tubes with you?



Except EL11 and EL3N.

All these tubes fit in a shoe box.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Except EL11 and EL3N.
> 
> All these tubes fit in a shoe box.



Cool you went for the long hall .


----------



## stevenhertzberg

Hi I was wondering about how long is the current wait for one of your amps


----------



## 2359glenn

stevenhertzberg said:


> Hi I was wondering about how long is the current wait for one of your amps



End of the summer early fall


----------



## Zachik

12AU7 / 12AT7 / 12AX7 questions:
1. Currently, my table list both 12AU7 and 12AT7 (rows 26-27). Each has its own adapter (12AU7 -> 6SN7, and 12AT7 -> 6SN7). Are these adapters different? Isn't the only difference between those 2 tube types is amplification (gain) factor (60 for 12AT7 vs. 17 for 12AU7)?
2. What about 12AX7 (gain factor of 100)? Will it work? will gain factor of 100 cause it to be too noisy?? single adapter for all 3 tube types?


----------



## gibosi

The same adapter will work for all three 12A-7 tubes.

However, keep in mind that there are 12 volt adapters as well. That is, 12A-7 to 12SN7. And if you use one of these, it is necessary to set the GOTL to use 12 volt tubes.


----------



## mordy

At this stage I feel that I have a very good platform for the power tubes. Bass heft and punch from a pair of Raytheon (Bendix) 6080WB, mid bass warmth from a pair of RCA 6080.
Drivers are a pair of EL8 - can't put my finger on what they contribute to the sound, but they do. The net effect is a powerful bass and a crystalline quality to the sound with excellent instrument separation and clarity - you can hear very clearly what is going on in a recording and can concentrate on each instrument, even those in the background.
And then a single front driver in the 6SN7 slot; this driver changes the sound in a significant way. Every driver imparts its own sound signature to the total sound presentation.
Maybe this is the closest I have found in blending a musical with an analytic presentation.
Still experimenting with different single drivers. Here is a very nice combination:
The single driver is a Frankie 7N7:




Beautiful sound.....I wonder how close the Frankie sounds compared to a metal base Sylvania 6SN7W (which I don't have)....


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> 12AU7 / 12AT7 / 12AX7 questions:
> 1. Currently, my table list both 12AU7 and 12AT7 (rows 26-27). Each has its own adapter (12AU7 -> 6SN7, and 12AT7 -> 6SN7). Are these adapters different? Isn't the only difference between those 2 tube types is amplification (gain) factor (60 for 12AT7 vs. 17 for 12AU7)?
> 2. What about 12AX7 (gain factor of 100)? Will it work? will gain factor of 100 cause it to be too noisy?? single adapter for all 3 tube types?


I think Glenn stated that the 12AX7 isn't suited for the GOTL - too much gain.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> 12AU7 / 12AT7 / 12AX7 questions:
> 1. Currently, my table list both 12AU7 and 12AT7 (rows 26-27). Each has its own adapter (12AU7 -> 6SN7, and 12AT7 -> 6SN7). Are these adapters different? Isn't the only difference between those 2 tube types is amplification (gain) factor (60 for 12AT7 vs. 17 for 12AU7)?
> 2. What about 12AX7 (gain factor of 100)? Will it work? will gain factor of 100 cause it to be too noisy?? single adapter for all 3 tube types?


Hi Zachik,
Here are more additions to your list:
You can add to the line 27: 12AZ7 and 12BH7
Line 29: 6F8G is the same as VT-99; 6C8G = VT-163
Line 31: L63/6J5 is also called CV1932
12V tubes add 12SX7 (no adapter needed)


----------



## gibosi (May 27, 2019)

Decided to dig a little deeper into my cache of 4-volt rectifiers. Currently listening to a British Mazda UU8 with a Mullard ECC33 and clear-top 5998s. Using this rectifier might be something like marrying an ECC804 with an ECC33. Quite nice. 

I think the blue highlights are from the GOTL power button....


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> The same adapter will work for all three 12A-7 tubes.


That is what I thought... Thanks for confirming!



gibosi said:


> However, keep in mind that there are 12 volt adapters as well. That is, 12A-7 to 12SN7. And if you use one of these, it is necessary to set the GOTL to use 12 volt tubes.


Hmmm..... are those 6v or 12v tubes?!  I know that with an adapter, they are a replacement for 6DJ8 / 6922 (e.g. on the Liquid Platinum), so I always thought those were 6v tubes. 
When using 12AU7 (or 12AT7) with adapter to 6SN7 - I need to set the voltage to 6v... when or which tubes would require setting the voltage to 12v?!?!


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Hi Zachik,
> Here are more additions to your list:
> You can add to the line 27: 12AZ7 and 12BH7
> Line 29: 6F8G is the same as VT-99; 6C8G = VT-163
> ...


Thanks - added / fixed my table


----------



## rosgr63

mordy said:


> Hi rosgr63,
> This is what the Radiomuseum says about the 7F7:
> 7F7 = VT-189 = CV893
> Similar Tubes
> ...



My apologies I was referring to the 7N7 not 7F7.


----------



## rosgr63

SonicTrance said:


> Typical operation for 6SL7 is 250V according to datasheet. Max rating is 300V.



Maybe I did not explain it well, in an amp designed to use 6SN7 you can use a 6SL7 provided the plate voltage does not exceed 200V,


----------



## SonicTrance

rosgr63 said:


> Maybe I did not explain it well, in an amp designed to use 6SN7 you can use a 6SL7 provided the plate voltage does not exceed 200V,


That would depend heavily on the circuit topology though. Anyway, not important here carry on


----------



## rosgr63

SonicTrance said:


> That would depend heavily on the circuit topology though. Anyway, not important here carry on



More can be found on  the subject in the discussions we had sometime ago.


----------



## whirlwind

I feel asleep without getting a bid in on an ECC33 last night , woke up this morning a bit disappointed, lol


----------



## UsoppNoKami

whirlwind said:


> I feel asleep without getting a bid in on an ECC33 last night , woke up this morning a bit disappointed, lol



I have a matched pair in my Freya pre-amp, one of my fav tubes in either gain or output stages. Worth a punt if another one pops up


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> That is what I thought... Thanks for confirming!
> 
> 
> Hmmm..... are those 6v or 12v tubes?!  I know that with an adapter, they are a replacement for 6DJ8 / 6922 (e.g. on the Liquid Platinum), so I always thought those were 6v tubes.
> When using 12AU7 (or 12AT7) with adapter to 6SN7 - I need to set the voltage to 6v... when or which tubes would require setting the voltage to 12v?!?!



They are both. With a center-tap (pin 9), the heaters can be connected in series for 12.6 volts or in parallel for 6.3 volts.  While most adapters are wired to configure them for 6 volts (6SN7) there are adapters that are wired for 12 volts (12SN7).


----------



## Phantaminum (May 27, 2019)

I'm really enjoying the ECC35s with the Bendix 6080s. Beautiful wide and holographic sound stage with fantastic instrument separation. The only I can ask for is a bit more sparkle up top.

Last, always inspect your tubes when swapping. I had my original quiet sixpack of 6BX7s and decided to try them with the Verite again. I saw that one had a black mark right in the middle of the D-Getter which I've never noticed before. Decided to test it out with one other tube and after a few minutes plugged in the HD650, few seconds later a huge POP on the left side. I suspected I was going to hear something so I kept the headphones above my ears but around my head. Startled the SO.

So I've visually inspected the rest of the tubes and their getters. Two tubes were thrown away and the HD650 is still kicking.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> They are both. With a center-tap (pin 9), the heaters can be connected in series for 12.6 volts or in parallel for 6.3 volts.  While most adapters are wired to configure them for 6 volts (6SN7) there are adapters that are wired for 12 volts (12SN7).


Interesting... so that means 12a*7 tubes can be used either with adapter to 6SN7 (in which case they would operate at 6v) or with adapter to 12SN7 (operating at 12v)?!
Which is better (in a GOTL)?? or does it vary between 12AU7 / 12AX7 / 12AT7 ?


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> Interesting... so that means 12a*7 tubes can be used either with adapter to 6SN7 (in which case they would operate at 6v) or with adapter to 12SN7 (operating at 12v)?!
> Which is better (in a GOTL)?? or does it vary between 12AU7 / 12AX7 / 12AT7 ?



Neither is better. It doesn't matter if they are operated in the 6-volt mode or 12, they sound the same.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> Neither is better. It doesn't matter if they are operated in the 6-volt mode or 12, they sound the same.


OK - made some changes (row 35-36) that I hope conveys this message clearly now. Thanks @gibosi


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Am I correct in my understanding that the best output tube setups for 32 Ohm headphones are 2x 6336B with the 5998 switch on and 4x 6AS7/5998?  Any other high current tube combinations that work well with the Grados?

I used to build custom woody headphones using aftermarket Grado drivers, having an OTL that can run 32 Ohm headphones is giving me the builders itch again.  They do not play nicely with my current amp.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> I'm really enjoying the ECC35s with the Bendix 6080s. Beautiful wide and holographic sound stage with fantastic instrument separation. The only I can ask for is a bit more sparkle up top.
> 
> Last, always inspect your tubes when swapping. I had my original quiet sixpack of 6BX7s and decided to try them with the Verite again. I saw that one had a black mark right in the middle of the D-Getter which I've never noticed before. Decided to test it out with one other tube and after a few minutes plugged in the HD650, few seconds later a huge POP on the left side. I suspected I was going to hear something so I kept the headphones above my ears but around my head. Startled the SO.
> 
> So I've visually inspected the rest of the tubes and their getters. Two tubes were thrown away and the HD650 is still kicking.



Hi Phantaminum,
I tried out a RCA 12SX7GT tube as a driver. Everything sounded fine until some 10-15 minutes later when the dreaded explosions and loud pops suddenly hit. I immediately shut the amp off and decided to try a second 12SX7 tube - same scary sounds.
The tubes are dated 3-04 ( Jan 1943?) with the SC logo.
Took a chance and used my old 40W soldering iron and applied heat to each pin for 30 seconds. After playing music for three hours now I cannot hear anything untoward, and hopefully the problem is gone.
I wonder if this would help for the noisy 6BX7?
I like the 12SX7GT - it sounds very good with a full bodied, meaty and brassy mid bass and very good highs.. This is a very underrated tube and available at reasonable prices ($15) from a seller in Taiwan. He also has a gray glass version for more money ($23) - I don't have it and wonder if it is any better.....
This 12V driver is a winner with my current setup.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> I tried out a RCA 12SX7GT tube as a driver. Everything sounded fine until some 10-15 minutes later when the dreaded explosions and loud pops suddenly hit. I immediately shut the amp off and decided to try a second 12SX7 tube - same scary sounds.
> The tubes are dated 3-04 ( Jan 1943?) with the SC logo.
> Took a chance and used my old 40W soldering iron and applied heat to each pin for 30 seconds. After playing music for three hours now I cannot hear anything untoward, and hopefully the problem is gone.
> ...



I would love if that would fix the 6BX7 but if you look at both tubes D-getter you'll see that the one on the left has a burn mark right in the middle and the one on the right seems like the metal is burned and eaten away. Not sure how that happened as they were NOS when I got them.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Am I correct in my understanding that the best output tube setups for 32 Ohm headphones are 2x 6336B with the 5998 switch on and 4x 6AS7/5998?  Any other high current tube combinations that work well with the Grados?
> 
> I used to build custom woody headphones using aftermarket Grado drivers, having an OTL that can run 32 Ohm headphones is giving me the builders itch again.  They do not play nicely with my current amp.



I do not have the 5998 switch,and with 6336 tubes all my low ohm headphones sound better than Ive ever heard them sound,especially the K701s.
I have to pick up my 5998s from Stavros at the post office tomorrow. Will report back on how those sound with low ohm headphones. 
I gave my stepson my Grado SR80e,but I will raid his room and see how they sound for you as well.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> I do not have the 5998 switch,and with 6336 tubes all my low ohm headphones sound better than Ive ever heard them sound,especially the K701s.
> I have to pick up my 5998s from Stavros at the post office tomorrow. Will report back on how those sound with low ohm headphones.
> I gave my stepson my Grado SR80e,but I will raid his room and see how they sound for you as well.



Thanks, Monster!  I really appreciate it.  Your stepson is pretty lucky to get himself a free pairs of Grados.  Let me know what you think


----------



## whirlwind

I agree with Monster.

I loved my Grado RS1 and that was with a pair of RCA 6AS7G power tubes!


----------



## leftside

@2359glenn What's the output impedance of the GOTL?

Do OTL amps usually have a high output impedance that tends to not match well with low impedance headphones? Do you usually want the impedance of headphones to be about 8 times greater than the output impedance of the amplifier? Damping factor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor).  Please correct me if I'm wrong, and if there are other sources of information for me to read up on besides Wikipedia.

The Glenn 300B amp works great with the LCD4 (and LCD3) with impedance of 200 ohms and sensitivity of 97 dB/1mW, and the upcoming custom amp I mentioned is designed for the LCD4 and headphones with a similar impedance. The 300B doesn't work well with the low impedance and high sensitivity Focal Stellia though. The Stellia are way too sensitive for such a high powered amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> @2359glenn What's the output impedance of the GOTL?
> 
> Do OTL amps usually have a high output impedance that tends to not match well with low impedance headphones? Do you usually want the impedance of headphones to be about 8 times greater than the output impedance of the amplifier? Damping factor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor).  Please correct me if I'm wrong, and if there are other sources of information for me to read up on besides Wikipedia.
> 
> The Glenn 300B amp works great with the LCD4 (and LCD3) with impedance of 200 ohms and sensitivity of 97 dB/1mW, and the upcoming custom amp I mentioned is designed for the LCD4 and headphones with a similar impedance. The 300B doesn't work well with the low impedance and high sensitivity Focal Stellia though. The Stellia are way too sensitive for such a high powered amp.



It can go down to 32 ohms with the right tubes or multiple tubes.  Normally about 100 ohms..


----------



## leftside (May 27, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> It can go down to 32 ohms with the right tubes or multiple tubes.  Normally about 100 ohms..


Thanks Glenn. How about the EL3N amp? Might as well also publish the output impedance of the 300B amp whilst we're talking about the output impedance of your amps.


----------



## leftside

There is certainly plenty of information (and debate) about how impedances, THD, frequency response, output power, etc, effect the sound produced. It's probably good to know these technicalities, and what "in theory" amps will sound best with which headphones, but I guess at the end of the day only our ears can be the true judge. I'm certainly interested in the science behind it all, but I profess that it's not my day job.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headphone_amplifier


----------



## Velozity

whirlwind said:


> I feel asleep without getting a bid in on an ECC33 last night , woke up this morning a bit disappointed, lol




Was it this one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-FAT-B...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Thanks Glenn. How about the EL3N amp? Might as well also publish the output impedance of the 300B amp whilst we're talking about the output impedance of your amps.



The EL3N and 300B are transformer coupled and can be set for 2 , 4 , 8 , 16 , 32 , and 120 ohms output.
I normally wire them foe 32 ohms to be able to drive most headphones.


----------



## whirlwind

Velozity said:


> Was it this one?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-FAT-BROWN-BASE-MULLARD-ECC33-6SN7GT-CV2821-1963-AVO-TESTED/202680992265?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649




This one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC33-MULL...m43663.l44720&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The EL3N and 300B are transformer coupled and can be set for 2 , 4 , 8 , 16 , 32 , and 120 ohms output.
> I normally wire them foe 32 ohms to be able to drive most headphones.




I do not own my Grado RS1 headphone anymore.
I liked it on the EL3N amp in one tube mode....back round dark as midnight....Grados are some of the best low level listening headphones IMO.
I tend to listen to my ZMF headphones and LCD-3 quite loud at times.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 28, 2019)

If you ever get a chance to hear them, there are some really excellent aftermarket drivers for Grado style cups, made by Nhoord Audio, Symphones, and Elleven Acoustica.  Still a very active modding community on HF around those drivers.  The Symphones V8 was a favorite of mine, I think I am going to do another custom build to pair with the GOTL when it arrives, really looking forward to tube rolling with them 

Here is a Nhoord Red V2 driver build I made a while back, black limba cups handmade by the Head-Fier Fleasbaby.  His woodworking skills are top-notch (no pun intended).


----------



## rosgr63

Sometime ago I used my Grados with 6336 tubes and they sounded great


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> If you ever get a chance to hear them, there are some really excellent aftermarket drivers for Grado style cups, made by Nhoord Audio, Symphones, and Elleven Acoustica.  Still a very active modding community on HF around those drivers.  The Symphones V8 was a favorite of mine, I think I am going to do another custom build to pair with the GOTL when it arrives, really looking forward to tube rolling with them
> 
> Here is a Nhoord Red V2 driver build I made a while back, black limba cups handmade by the Head-Fier Fleasbaby.  His woodworking skills are top-notch (no pun intended).



I used to have a pair of Grado Magnum V4 that JoeDoe built for me...the most beautiful Zebrawood cups ever. I sold them as I really cannot get over the on ear thing with Grados. The big bowl cups changed the sound too much for me.


----------



## leftside

Velozity said:


> Was it this one?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-FAT-BROWN-BASE-MULLARD-ECC33-6SN7GT-CV2821-1963-AVO-TESTED/202680992265?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


That guy from Scotland has (had) the most amazing tube collection I've ever seen! Seems like he had as endless supply of the most desirable and rare tubes. Has a 1953 Mullard 12ax7 for sale at the moment. Will be interesting to see how much that goes for.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> The EL3N and 300B are transformer coupled and can be set for 2 , 4 , 8 , 16 , 32 , and 120 ohms output.
> I normally wire them foe 32 ohms to be able to drive most headphones.


So, "in theory" a EL3N amp with an output impedance of 4 ohms would be a better match for the Focal Stellia with an impedance of 35 ohms? I'm absolutely loving the Stellia with portable devices whilst traveling, in the office, in the garden, etc, but there's no denying they sound better with a "proper" amp. They sound great with the WA22, and I imagine they'd sound even better with one of your amps custom made for them...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> I used to have a pair of Grado Magnum V4 that JoeDoe built for me...the most beautiful Zebrawood cups ever. I sold them as I really cannot get over the on ear thing with Grados. The big bowl cups changed the sound too much for me.



Those cups are beautiful.  Yes, the ear thing is tricky if you find them uncomfortable.  Nhoord made a driver specifically for the large G cushions, haven't heard it myself.  The smaller L cushions sound better to me on every other driver, but they can be rough on the ears over time.  Another option are the TTVJ flat pads.

I took a flyer on a sextet of Tung Sol 6BX7GT.  Not necessarily cheap, hopefully they work well together!  Time will tell.

The one on the far left is a very rare 1961 "double print" 6BX7GT, highly sought after by collectors


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Those cups are beautiful.  Yes, the ear thing is tricky if you find them uncomfortable.  Nhoord made a driver specifically for the large G cushions, haven't heard it myself.  The smaller L cushions sound better to me on every other driver, but they can be rough on the ears over time.  Another option are the TTVJ flat pads.
> 
> I took a flyer on a sextet of Tung Sol 6BX7GT.  Not necessarily cheap, hopefully they work well together!  Time will tell.
> 
> The one on the far left is a very rare 1961 "double print" 6BX7GT, highly sought after by collectors



Where did you find a sextet of those? Ive had a TS 6BX7GT search on eBay for almost a year,and only get single tubes,occasionally a pair. The ones I do find I bounce off of Ken,and he says theyre just GE rebrands,which I already own. My tube IQ isnt high enough yet to tell them apart.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Where did you find a sextet of those? Ive had a TS 6BX7GT search on eBay for almost a year,and only get single tubes,occasionally a pair. The ones I do find I bounce off of Ken,and he says theyre just GE rebrands,which I already own. My tube IQ isnt high enough yet to tell them apart.



An Ebay seller had them listed as pairs, three available for a total of six.  They are "strong" testing, not truly NOS, 80-90% Gm, and ~$30 per tube, so probably a risky buy.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Those cups are beautiful.  Yes, the ear thing is tricky if you find them uncomfortable.  Nhoord made a driver specifically for the large G cushions, haven't heard it myself.  The smaller L cushions sound better to me on every other driver, but they can be rough on the ears over time.  Another option are the TTVJ flat pads.
> 
> I took a flyer on a sextet of Tung Sol 6BX7GT.  Not necessarily cheap, hopefully they work well together!  Time will tell.
> 
> The one on the far left is a very rare 1961 "double print" 6BX7GT, highly sought after by collectors


Nice find. Those are getting tough to find in pairs these days, let alone 6. They look in good shape as well.


----------



## mordy

This is off topic, but I promised a friend who is a Ph.D in physics to ask this question re a brain wave research project - maybe somebody on this knowledgeable forum has an answer or information:
Is there a subwoofer that can produce frequencies from 0.1 Hz up to 10 Hz? These frequencies are below the threshold of human hearing and cannot be heard but can be measured.
Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## leftside (May 28, 2019)

Just took a look through the Glenn OTL excel:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHcgqSa16WqaAjwUYoE3eZlSfmaSluQFVYqY1pry-NI/edit#gid=0

Good job! I think there's a couple of potential amendments though. Apparently, to maximise the performance of the 422A you need an adapter? 

I didn't think the GZ34 was a recommended tube due to the operating characteristics (does the mAa need to be 250 or more?)
http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0013.htm

Do you need a twin 76 to single 6SN7 adapter?

The 6C5/G/GT can be used (great tube). I'm also presuming (maybe incorrectly…) that the same twin adapter can be used for the 6J5/6P5/6C5 tubes?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 28, 2019)

mordy said:


> This is off topic, but I promised a friend who is a Ph.D in physics to ask this question re a brain wave research project - maybe somebody on this knowledgeable forum has an answer or information:
> Is there a subwoofer that can produce frequencies from 0.1 Hz up to 10 Hz? These frequencies are below the threshold of human hearing and cannot be heard but can be measured.
> Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.



To get frequencies down to 0-10 Hz, tell your friend to look up "rotary subwoofer".  Your conventional cone-style subwoofer will not get you below 10Hz.  To go below that, the woofer and the associated technology is necessarily massive, an entire separate room is used as the baffle.  Getting one installed is not for the faint of heart.

http://www.rotarywoofer.com/

It's gonna cost him around $25,000.

Or he could build one himself!


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> I didn't think the GZ34 was a recommended tube due to the operating characteristics (does the mAa need to be 250 or more?)
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0013.htm



Unfortunately, the National Valve Museum is wrong.

Philips data sheet indicates that the GZ34 is good for 250ma at 400 volts or less.

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/030/g/GZ34.pdf


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, the National Valve Museum is wrong.
> 
> Philips data sheet indicates that the GZ34 is good for 250ma at 400 volts or less.
> 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/030/g/GZ34.pdf


Good to know! 

How about the 6C5/6J5/6P5 tubes? Use the same adapter for all 3?


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Those cups are beautiful.  Yes, the ear thing is tricky if you find them uncomfortable.  Nhoord made a driver specifically for the large G cushions, haven't heard it myself.  The smaller L cushions sound better to me on every other driver, but they can be rough on the ears over time.  Another option are the TTVJ flat pads.
> 
> I took a flyer on a sextet of Tung Sol 6BX7GT.  Not necessarily cheap, hopefully they work well together!  Time will tell.
> 
> The one on the far left is a very rare 1961 "double print" 6BX7GT, highly sought after by collectors




Ha...yes that base on the far left had some printing issues, lol

These Tung Sol 6BX7 sound great


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> To get frequencies down to 0-10 Hz, tell your friend to look up "rotary subwoofer".  Your conventional cone-style subwoofer will not get you below 10Hz.  To go below that, the woofer and the associated technology is necessarily massive, an entire separate room is used as the baffle.  Getting one installed is not for the faint of heart.
> 
> http://www.rotarywoofer.com/
> 
> ...



Thank you very much!


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Apparently, to maximise the performance of the 422A you need an adapter?



I asked Glenn about this awhile back. IIRC he said a couple of the pins are swapped on the 422a,and can cause a hum at 60hz w/o the adapter.


----------



## whirlwind

I believe @Sound Trooper is using WE422A in his GEL3N amp....not sure if he is using an adapter or not

May be different if used in GEL3N amp....I am not sure.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Good to know!
> 
> How about the 6C5/6J5/6P5 tubes? Use the same adapter for all 3?



I  have no experience with these tubes, so can't say....  When I get more time, will check the data sheets.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> That is what I thought... Thanks for confirming!
> 
> 
> Hmmm..... are those 6v or 12v tubes?!  I know that with an adapter, they are a replacement for 6DJ8 / 6922 (e.g. on the Liquid Platinum), so I always thought those were 6v tubes.
> When using 12AU7 (or 12AT7) with adapter to 6SN7 - I need to set the voltage to 6v... when or which tubes would require setting the voltage to 12v?!?!


Here are a couple of more 6V tubes that are 6SN7 derivatives but with a 9pin base:
6CG7
6FQ7
These tubes use the same adapter as the 6DJ8


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> I  have no experience with these tubes, so can't say....  When I get more time, will check the data sheets.


Thanks. I also took a look and they seem very similar to me, but my source of reference was incorrect last time...
https://tubes.a-wai.com/short/001/6/6P5.gif
https://tubes.a-wai.com/short/064/6/6J5.gif
https://tubes.a-wai.com/short/001/6/6J5.gif
https://tubes.a-wai.com/short/001/6/6C5.gif
https://tubes.a-wai.com/short/064/6/6C5G.gif


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I believe @Sound Trooper is using WE422A in his GEL3N amp....not sure if he is using an adapter or not
> 
> May be different if used in GEL3N amp....I am not sure.



I made him a adapter that reverses pins 2 and 8


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> Just took a look through the Glenn OTL excel:
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHcgqSa16WqaAjwUYoE3eZlSfmaSluQFVYqY1pry-NI/edit#gid=0
> 
> Good job! I think there's a couple of potential amendments though. Apparently, to maximise the performance of the 422A you need an adapter?


Thanks! I have created the table for my own use, but wanted everyone in the community to benefit from sharing the knowledge 
I believe the 422A adapter was addressed by Glenn couple posts ago.



leftside said:


> Do you need a twin 76 to single 6SN7 adapter?
> 
> The 6C5/G/GT can be used (great tube). I'm also presuming (maybe incorrectly…) that the same twin adapter can be used for the 6J5/6P5/6C5 tubes?


I keep updating the table whenever I get feedback here (or by PMs).


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> I believe @Sound Trooper is using WE422A in his GEL3N amp....not sure if he is using an adapter or not
> 
> May be different if used in GEL3N amp....I am not sure.



Hi Joe, Glenn made me an adapter for the WE422A and it sounds fine with it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Thanks! I have created the table for my own use, but wanted everyone in the community to benefit from sharing the knowledge
> I believe the 422A adapter was addressed by Glenn couple posts ago.
> 
> 
> I keep updating the table whenever I get feedback here (or by PMs).



The 422A is the best rectifier and will work without a adapter but will add 5 volts of 50 or 60 Hz to the power supply.
Normally the power supply will filter this out but why add this in the first place if it can be eliminated by a adapter.


----------



## UntilThen

Temperature plunged to 1 degree tonight so it's time to call upon the tube heaters. 

Pretty good tone this combination of Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp and Cetron 6336b.


----------



## UntilThen

I didn't think the Audeze LCD-3f at 110 ohms is a particularly difficult to drive headphone. Whether with 6 x 6bx7gt or a pair of Cetron 6336b and Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp, the volume knob is at 2 clicks pass noon. The same as when I use the HD800. It's a lovely tone.


----------



## whirlwind (May 29, 2019)

You seem to be settled in pretty good UT.   Those 6336's will keep you warm and cozy.

I just switched over to the LCD-3 after long time with Atticus and a bunch of John Lee Hooker.
I have decided to stay with the John Lee Hooker  as I am filling in some holes from his library....I have a few days off from work  

The LCD 3 is a great headphone, and JLH ain't bad himself....miss that guy!

Back in the day when i first meet my wife, 1986, we went to quite a few Tom Petty concerts, heck i think that was the year when Petty even backed up Dylan for a short while.

I would have given up one of those times to have been here at the Fillmore in SF.  Had to love this guy's "boogie jams"

This would have been a one fun night. the people who got to see it are very fortunate!


----------



## Monsterzero

What is the length of time NOS tubes need before they settle in? 
Received my 5998s yesterday from Stavros,and thus far theyre dead silent,even on K701s. However they dont sound the way im used to 5998s sounding. 
How much cooking is needed before theyre settled in?


----------



## gibosi

Given that these 5998s have lived in Greece for a number of years, I suspect that they have simply picked up a Greek accent. 

More seriously, it is important to remember that tubes sound different in different amps. And regarding settling in, other than quieting down, I haven't noticed that the sound of 5998s changes all that much.


----------



## mordy

There is no hard and fast rule for the time needed to burn in tubes. Most tubes need 30-50 hours (but there are tubes that need around 100-120 hours, and some require even more to sound their best).
But 30-50 hours should suffice in general.


----------



## rosgr63 (May 29, 2019)

These tubes are NOS with perfectly balanced sections and matched date codes

I’ve found tubes of different production dates can sound different


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> What is the length of time NOS tubes need before they settle in?
> Received my 5998s yesterday from Stavros,and thus far theyre dead silent,even on K701s. However they dont sound the way im used to 5998s sounding.
> How much cooking is needed before theyre settled in?



Just listen to them and enjoy them and I am sure they will turn into what you remember.

Sounds like you got a very well matched set, congrats on getting these.

With these and the GEC 6AS7G you have your self some very good power tubes.  Plus the Verite...& OTL   ...Enjoy all that, man that should be killer!

Maybe work on getting a set of quite or as quiet as possible 6BL/6BX7....may just have to grab singles tubes at a time at some point to take advantage of all those sockets  

Enjoy your new tubes.


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> What is the length of time NOS tubes need before they settle in?
> Received my 5998s yesterday from Stavros,and thus far theyre dead silent,even on K701s. However they dont sound the way im used to 5998s sounding.
> How much cooking is needed before theyre settled in?





rosgr63 said:


> These tubes are NOS with perfectly balanced sections and matched date codes
> 
> I’ve found tubes of different production dates can sound different



Congrats MZ, sounds like you found a great pair of 5998s.
Just give them some time, heard a few pair and found SQ to be reliable and consistent.
Of course, you were smart, you went to Stavros!


----------



## rosgr63

Thank you for your kind comments 

I never amp test my NOS/NIB tubes and have no idea how they sound 
I only test them in one of my testers to make sure they are safe and strong

But as I mentioned in my threads sometime ago I found same type tubes of different production batches can sound different 

I cannot predict if the way they sound is to the users liking


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I have owned quite a few 5998s and I've also noticed differences from batch to batch, but the differences are very subtle, by and large they sound 99% the same.  Often times I think it is my brain that needs the burn in, not the gear.  I'm sure they will sound the same as remembered given some more head time, Monster!


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Here are a couple of more 6V tubes that are 6SN7 derivatives but with a 9pin base:
> 6CG7
> 6FQ7
> These tubes use the same adapter as the 6DJ8


Added (row 27). Thanks.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have owned quite a few 5998s and I've also noticed differences from batch to batch, but the differences are very subtle, by and large they sound 99% the same.  Often times I think it is my brain that needs the burn in, not the gear.  I'm sure they will sound the same as remembered given some more head time, Monster!



Ive been experimenting with some audio tweaks recently that are making quite a difference in the SQ,so what im hearing could be from these tweaks. For the time being Ive removed them so I can focus solely on the 5998s. Also swapped out the U52 for a GZ34 today.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> The 422A is the best rectifier and will work without a adapter but will add 5 volts of 50 or 60 Hz to the power supply.
> Normally the power supply will filter this out but why add this in the first place if it can be eliminated by a adapter.


Thanks Glenn - added this info to the compatibility table.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have owned quite a few 5998s and I've also noticed differences from batch to batch, but the differences are very subtle, by and large they sound 99% the same.  Often times I think it is my brain that needs the burn in, not the gear.  I'm sure they will sound the same as remembered given some more head time, Monster!




I own three pair...2 pair fairly well matched.....one pair the tubes have a large difference in the year produced and one is a side getter and one is a top getter....but both test very close.
All three sets sound the same to my ears.....of course my ears are old


----------



## rosgr63

Two of my amps are dedicated  to rolling

I keep all variables the same so I can evaluate drivers or power tubes


----------



## Monsterzero (May 29, 2019)

Just a heads up theres at least three pair of Bendix 6080wb from the same seller currently on eBay. All are untested,so the price thus far is pretty low.
Im bidding on this pair
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-Bendix-JAN-CEA-6080WB-1962-Slotted-Plate-Vacuum-Tubes/202688583181?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649

If anyone else needs a pair,kindly dont up bid this pair. Theres two others from the same seller that went up yesterday,for less cash currently.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-Bendix...814536?hash=item592b232b88:g:tlAAAOSwaQ5c7Cuy

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-Bendix...190614?hash=item2f31561f56:g:ebcAAOSwkkVc6~uS


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I own three pair...2 pair fairly well matched.....one pair the tubes have a large difference in the year produced and one is a side getter and one is a top getter....but both test very close.
> All three sets sound the same to my ears.....of course my ears are old



And to add to the chorus...   I have six pair, manufactured between 1957 to 1968, and they all sound the same to my ears... but then, my ears are even older than Whirlwind's. lol.

That said, over the years, the internal construction of the 5998 changed in small but noticeable ways due to research in new materials and manufacturing technologies, as well as feedback from the field. And it only stands to reason that these construction differences may well impact the sound in ways that those with better ears than mine are able to discern.


----------



## heliosphann (May 29, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Just a heads up theres at least three pair of Bendix 6080wb from the same seller currently on eBay. All are untested,so the price thus far is pretty low.
> Im bidding on this pair
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-Bendix-JAN-CEA-6080WB-1962-Slotted-Plate-Vacuum-Tubes/202688583181?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649
> 
> ...



Are these the similar to the Chatham graphite plates? I have one for my Crack w/speedball that got me hooked on tubes.



whirlwind said:


> You seem to be settled in pretty good UT.   Those 6336's will keep you warm and cozy.



Oh, I think @UntilThen will be just fine. I bet it doesn't even get under 10°C where he's at!!!


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> Are these the similar to the Chatham graphite plates? I have one for my Crack w/speedball that got me hooked on tubes.



No clue. Never owned a Bendix before. @Phantaminum reporting good sound from them though.


----------



## attmci

rosgr63 said:


> Thank you for your kind comments
> 
> I never amp test my NOS/NIB tubes and have no idea how they sound
> I only test them in one of my testers to make sure they are safe and strong
> ...


All the 5998s sounds similar except those clear tops.


----------



## attmci (May 29, 2019)

gibosi said:


> And to add to the chorus...   I have six pair, manufactured between 1957 to 1968, and they all sound the same to my ears... but then, my ears are even older than Whirlwind's. lol.
> 
> That said, over the years, the internal construction of the 5998 changed in small but noticeable ways due to research in new materials and manufacturing technologies, as well as feedback from the field. And it only stands to reason that these construction differences may well impact the sound in ways that those with better ears than mine are able to discern.


I trust M's ears. He was always trying hard to idenfy everything in the music.   

I have two pairs. All the others are single...

Plus 3 dead ones. LOL


----------



## gibosi

heliosphann said:


> Are these the similar to the Chatham graphite plates? I have one for my Crack w/speedball that got me hooked on tubes.



To the best of my knowledge only Bendix manufactured the 6080 with graphite plates. The Chatham / Tung-sol 6080 has black metal plates.
So your Chatham is likely a Bendix carrying the Chatham brand.


----------



## heliosphann

gibosi said:


> To the best of my knowledge only Bendix manufactured the 6080 with graphite plates. The Chatham / Tung-sol 6080 has black metal plates.
> So your Chatham is likely a Bendix carrying the Chatham brand.



Yea, that sounds right. I remember when buying it a long time ago they referenced Bendix, but Chatham is clearly on the tube.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Anyone have experience using a six pack of Sylvania T-plate 6BL7s?  Are they truly inferior to the flat plates?


----------



## mordy

heliosphann said:


> Yea, that sounds right. I remember when buying it a long time ago they referenced Bendix, but Chatham is clearly on the tube.


I have three Raytheon branded Bendix graphite 6080WB tubes + two Greek Bendix imports. There are at least four different variants with small differences in construction among these tubes.
Just found Mazda labeled Bendix 6080 tubes in a picture :


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> I have three Raytheon branded Bendix graphite 6080WB tubes + two Greek Bendix imports. There are at least four different variants with small differences in construction among these tubes.
> Just found Mazda labeled Bendix 6080 tubes in a picture :



Here is another weird one, German military "BWB" labeled Bendix.  I have never seen this plate structure, found it on Taobao while tube surfing.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Am I correct in my understanding that the best output tube setups for 32 Ohm headphones are 2x 6336B with the 5998 switch on and 4x 6AS7/5998?  Any other high current tube combinations that work well with the Grados?
> 
> I used to build custom woody headphones using aftermarket Grado drivers, having an OTL that can run 32 Ohm headphones is giving me the builders itch again.  They do not play nicely with my current amp.


I can only report that with 2x 5998s w/o the 5998 switch,the Grado 80e sounds good. 
Havent tested it with my 6336s cuz im cooking these 5998s


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is another weird one, German military "BWB" labeled Bendix.  I have never seen this plate structure, found it on Taobao while tube surfing.



It's also interesting that the spacers appear to be mica. Most, if not all the Bendix 6080 that I have seen have ceramic spacers, usually white but sometimes a purplish color.


----------



## rosgr63

I identified at least  5 different types of plates and at least two types of grid rods before I started selling my Bendix collection.

I'm sure there are more.


----------



## rosgr63

They were used in A/A missile guidance systems.


----------



## rosgr63 (May 30, 2019)

gibosi said:


> And to add to the chorus...   I have six pair, manufactured between 1957 to 1968, and they all sound the same to my ears... but then, my ears are even older than Whirlwind's. lol.
> 
> That said, over the years, the internal construction of the 5998 changed in small but noticeable ways due to research in new materials and manufacturing technologies, as well as feedback from the field. And it only stands to reason that these construction differences may well impact the sound in ways that those with better ears than mine are able to discern.



That's right Ken.
I don't think I'll be able to hear the differences now as my well used ears are not what they were when I did my A/B tests.

I can still tell the difference in grid post materials when it comes to 6SN7's.

To be honest I don't really care I just want to enjoy my music.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> To be honest I don't really care I just want to enjoy my music.



I'll second that. These days I just fire up either the GOTL or Sansui and away I go.


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Matt,


UntilThen said:


> I'll second that. These days I just fire up either the GOTL or Sansui and away I go.



Hi Matt,

Are we getting old or wise?


----------



## attmci (May 30, 2019)

gibosi said:


> To the best of my knowledge only Bendix manufactured the 6080 with graphite plates. The Chatham / Tung-sol 6080 has black metal plates.
> So your Chatham is likely a Bendix carrying the Chatham brand.


I believe a rebranded tube should have the same structure as the original brand tube.

The plate of the _*majority of Chatham*_/TS 6080 are significantly different in shape than that of the Bendix 6080.

The Bendix tubes  do have different structures  (i.e. some strange shape slots, rod, spacers). However, I have yet to find a Bendix 6080wb has identical structure as certain graphite-plate TS/Chatham 6080wb.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Hi Matt,
> 
> 
> Hi Matt,
> ...



Both.

I'll let you know in 50 years time... if there are any NOS tubes left.


----------



## Wes S (May 30, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Just a heads up theres at least three pair of Bendix 6080wb from the same seller currently on eBay. All are untested,so the price thus far is pretty low.
> Im bidding on this pair
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-Bendix-JAN-CEA-6080WB-1962-Slotted-Plate-Vacuum-Tubes/202688583181?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649
> 
> ...


Hey Monster,

I am not sure if you saw it, but on that pair you are bidding on, the tube on the right, has mica as the top spacer, which looks different, than the one on the left, with all ceramic spacers.  Just thought I would let you know, however I am not sure if that would change the sound?  Also, on pair number 2, the same thing, with the different top spacer.  It looks like, the seller mixed up the 2 pairs?


----------



## whirlwind

Ceramic all the way would be like this.
 

Sorry for the bad picture.

I always like the tube photo's of Ken's...it is always easy to see the construction of the tubes.


----------



## rosgr63

Like this pair


----------



## Monsterzero

Some morning laughs


----------



## Monsterzero

Wes S said:


> Hey Monster,
> 
> I am not sure if you saw it, but on that pair you are bidding on, the tube on the right, has mica as the top spacer, which looks different, than the one on the left, with all ceramic spacers.  Just thought I would let you know, however I am not sure if that would change the sound?  Also, on pair number 2, the same thing, with the different top spacer.  It looks like, the seller mixed up the 2 pairs?



Thanks for that....No my eyes arent the greatest. I will message the seller and see if he/she will swap them.


----------



## Velozity (May 30, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I'll second that. These days I just fire up either the GOTL or Sansui and away I go.




I can't wait to get to that point.  I'm getting tired of shopping tubes for an amp that I don't have yet.  I already have more tubes than I ever expected to own.  I bought the GOTL so I could have an endgame sonic experience with my Eikon at work.  I'm getting antsy now, lol.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I've been trawling the thread for information on C3gs.  My takeaways are:

1) the embossed Telefunken are made from unobtainium
2) the embossed Valvos are rebrands, as Philips Valvo never manufactured C3gs
3) anything white silk-screened is a late-production Siemens rebrand
4) the Siemens are brighter than the embossed Lorenz, which have more laid-back treble
5) differences between embossed and silk-screened Siemens are subtle to nonexistent

Also seems there have been noise issues with C3gs.  With that in mind, I think I am going to pay the premium to get matched sets from Jac Music.  Have you guys had good experiences buying C3gs from Jac?


----------



## rosgr63

Jac is great

I bought my AVVT’s and other tubes from him

He rebased some of my rare tubes too


----------



## UntilThen

Velozity said:


> I can't wait to get to that point.  I'm getting tired of shopping tubes for an amp that I don't have yet.  I already have more tubes than I ever expected to own.  I bought the GOTL so I could have an endgame sonic experience with my Eikon at work.  I'm getting antsy now, lol.



It's alright. It's the path well travelled. All part of the fun and experience in our fascination with tubes. I had several other OTL amps before GOTL so by the time I order, I had already amassed quite a lot of tubes. I still believe in quality over quantity but it's costly.

I had the Eikon and Atticus with GOTL for a while and they will sound great in it.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've been trawling the thread for information on C3gs.  My takeaways are:
> 
> 1) the embossed Telefunken are made from unobtainium
> 2) the embossed Valvos are rebrands, as Philips Valvo never manufactured C3gs
> ...



They can be noisy with high amplification 6BX7S and they do ping/ting on start up. With most other power output tubes they’re usually quiet. If Jac can test for microphonics that will be very beneficial. I have one that is quite noisy.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> They can be noisy with high amplification 6BX7S and they do ping/ting on start up. With most other power output tubes they’re usually quiet. If Jac can test for microphonics that will be very beneficial. I have one that is quite noisy.



Thanks, I'll have to ask him, unsure of what he tests for exactly, although he says the tubes will come with a printed report.  I don't mind the ping-ting so much, microphonics are annoying, but much more tolerable in a head-amp than a stereo amp at least.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've been trawling the thread for information on C3gs.  My takeaways are:
> 
> 1) the embossed Telefunken are made from unobtainium
> 2) the embossed Valvos are rebrands, as Philips Valvo never manufactured C3gs
> ...



When you take these tubes out of the sockets, try to pull straight up and not wiggle the tube much....I lost one this way.  
Just treat these tubes gently and with care.  They are super transparent tubes and sound fantastic .


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> When you take these tubes out of the sockets, try to pull straight up and not wiggle the tube much....I lost one this way.
> Just treat these tubes gently and with care.  They are super transparent tubes and sound fantastic .



I didn't know they were so delicate, thanks Joe, I'll be careful. Funny considering how rugged they look.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> When you take these tubes out of the sockets, try to pull straight up and not wiggle the tube much....I lost one this way.
> Just treat these tubes gently and with care.  They are super transparent tubes and sound fantastic .


 
Correct. Straight in and straight out. No wiggling and no tapping the tubes when they are powered up or they will resonate like crazy.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Duly noted, I have just the thing to help me prepare...


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> With that in mind, I think I am going to pay the premium to get matched sets from Jac Music. Have you guys had good experiences buying C3gs from Jac?



I have bought all my C3g on eBay, including Telefunken and Lorenz, and all of them are fine. And I am sure that Jac's are fine as well, but I doubt that they are any better.


----------



## mordy (May 30, 2019)

gibosi said:


> I have bought all my C3g on eBay, including Telefunken and Lorenz, and all of them are fine. And I am sure that Jac's are fine as well, but I doubt that they are any better.





L0rdGwyn said:


> I didn't know they were so delicate, thanks Joe, I'll be careful. Funny considering how rugged they look.


The C3g tubes were made for transatlantic underwater cable transmissions. It is possible that the glass is tempered to withstand underwater pressures making the glass brittle. I lost one by wiggling (rolling) them as you do with other tubes.
To put them in, just press straight down. To remove, I would use a small flat blade screwdriver and just gently work my way around the base, lifting it up in increments (unless the socket isn't tight and the tube comes out very easily by pulling straight up).


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> I have bought all my C3g on eBay, including Telefunken and Lorenz, and all of them are fine. And I am sure that Jac's are fine as well, but I doubt that they are any better.



Got it, I'll see what's available on eBay, I think a large part of what Jac has in stock are various glossy rebranded Siemens.



mordy said:


> The C3g tubes were made for transatlantic underwater cable transmissions. It is possible that the glass is tempered to withstand underwater pressures making the glass brittle. I lost one by wiggling (rolling) them as you do with other tubes.
> To put them in, just press straight down. To remove, I would use a small flat blade screwdriver and just gently work my way around the base, lifting it up in increments (unless the socket isn't tight and the tube comes out very easily by pulling straight up).



That's interesting, I guess I'll have to see how tightly the sockets hug them, thanks for the tip!  I'll give it a go when the GOTL arrives.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Duly noted, I have just the thing to help me prepare...



It's the weekend and my turn to play jewel of the Nile. This combination is quiet and great sounding plus keep me warm.


----------



## attmci

Who want this Brimar 6SN7GT?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-BRIMAR-6SN7GT-ORANGE-PRINT-1955-NOS-BOXED-AVO-TESTED/202689372449

The next step is a smoke glass 1988, and then you have to jump to a B65 before it will cost you $100000 in a couple of years.


----------



## heliosphann

attmci said:


> Who want this Brimar 6SN7GT?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-BRIMAR-6SN7GT-ORANGE-PRINT-1955-NOS-BOXED-AVO-TESTED/202689372449
> 
> The next step is a smoke glass 1988, and then you have to jump to a B65 before it will cost you $100000 in a couple of years.



Link didn't work, but I found it and I'm bidding on it!


----------



## attmci

heliosphann said:


> Link didn't work, but I found it and I'm bidding on it!


Good luck!


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> Link didn't work, but I found it and I'm bidding on it!



Good Luck.

Meanwhile, I am off work for another week and am currently about 5 days deep into a John Lee Hooker "Fest"

I have listened to many albums with different amps and headphones and have come to this conclusion.

John Lee Hooker was one of the coolest blues men ever


----------



## heliosphann

whirlwind said:


> Good Luck.
> 
> Meanwhile, I am off work for another week and am currently about 5 days deep into a John Lee Hooker "Fest"
> 
> ...




Thanks. I'm not a huge Blues guy, but I do like some JLH.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Good Luck.
> 
> Meanwhile, I am off work for another week and am currently about 5 days deep into a John Lee Hooker "Fest"
> 
> ...



It will take you five years to go through his entire back catalog! What is your favorite period of his catalog and albums? I do like the early/raw recordings, but think I prefer the slightly later recordings with a bit of bass such as "Urban Blues". 

"It Serves You Right To Suffer" on SACD is a superb recording. If you don't already have it, PM me and I'll share a OneDrive link so you can take the DSD64 .dsf files.
https://www.discogs.com/John-Lee-Hooker-It-Serve-You-Right-To-Suffer/release/6183845


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 2, 2019)

leftside said:


> It will take you five years to go through his entire back catalog! What is your favorite period of his catalog and albums? I do like the early/raw recordings, but think I prefer the slightly later recordings with a bit of bass such as "Urban Blues".
> 
> "It Serves You Right To Suffer" on SACD is a superb recording. If you don't already have it, PM me and I'll share a OneDrive link so you can take the DSD64 .dsf files.
> https://www.discogs.com/John-Lee-Hooker-It-Serve-You-Right-To-Suffer/release/6183845




Yes, the catalog is huge.....well, 50 years worth, lol.

I really do like it all....I guess if i had to choose i would have to say his later recordings also, but I do much enjoy the early stuff...hell the dude could boogie with one chord , his foot as percussion, and nobody else.

There are some great boxed sets out there now.


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Link didn't work, but I found it and I'm bidding on it!



Dont go to high I will be giving you a Brimar 13D1 with the amp same thing with a 25 volt filament or a Brimar 25SN7.


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> Dont go to high I will be giving you a Brimar 13D1 with the amp same thing with a 25 volt filament or a Brimar 25SN7.



Great, it went too high anyway.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Maybe I just haven't heard of it, but its pretty shocking more amps don't have a heater voltage switch, it has gotta be one of the best features of the GOTL.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Maybe I just haven't heard of it, but its pretty shocking more amps don't have a heater voltage switch, it has gotta be one of the best features of the GOTL.



It most certainly is.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Maybe I just haven't heard of it, but its pretty shocking more amps don't have a heater voltage switch, it has gotta be one of the best features of the GOTL.



I thought so it allows you to use much cheaper high end tubes. They are cheap because most amps can't use them.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Maybe I just haven't heard of it, but its pretty shocking more amps don't have a heater voltage switch, it has gotta be one of the best features of the GOTL.



It’s one of my favorite features of the amp. You can find really great 12SN7 and even cheaper 12SL7s. Not to mention all of the 12**7s tubes out there and equivalent type tubes. Definitely a tube rollers dream or addiction.


----------



## mordy

Found this Western Electric 13D thingamajig - looks more like a light bulb than a vacuum tube...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-of-2-M...441042?hash=item3fc2c21d52:g:ZScAAOSwgrZcNmLN









On another note, I have been looking for more 25V tubes. So far I have the 1633 and the 13D1. I came across one or two others but none that were available anywhere and possibly different pinout.


----------



## JazzVinyl

@whirlwind said a good while back that 12SN7 were incredible bargains, and have found that to be true, you can run across very nice 12SN7's whose 6SN equivalent cousins cost an arm and a leg.   

Definitely a big feature that Glenn's amp runs them, natively.

Today, I am running a pair of 1970 Mullard 6080's as powers and a short bottle, black base Sylvania 6SN7W and wow...does these ever pair well and sound nice!!

Been jazzing (what else?) Randy Crawford, Mike Stern, Yellowjackets, Airto, Flora Purim, Jon Hassell, Jack DeJonette....  

A BIG BAD and HUGE Thunderstorm is brewing....dogs are getting nervous 

Cheers!


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> It’s one of my favorite features of the amp. You can find really great 12SN7 and even cheaper 12SL7s. Not to mention all of the 12**7s tubes out there and equivalent type tubes. Definitely a tube rollers dream or addiction.


I have been using the RCA WW2 12SX7GT for some 50 hours now. It seems to me that it is a 12SN7 variant. 
Bottom line: IMHO this is a top level driver tube well worth trying, right up there with the best with the combination I am using (EL8/4x6080 RCA/Bendix).


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Found this Western Electric 13D thingamajig - looks more like a light bulb than a vacuum tube...
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-of-2-M...441042?hash=item3fc2c21d52:g:ZScAAOSwgrZcNmLN
> 
> 
> On another note, I have been looking for more 25V tubes. So far I have the 1633 and the 13D1. I came across one or two others but none that were available anywhere and possibly different pinout.



Hello Mordy...

Agree, there is not much to be had in 25v land...


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Mordy...
> 
> Agree, there is not much to be had in 25v land...


Quality, not quantity.....


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 2, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Mordy...
> 
> Agree, there is not much to be had in 25v land...



Bought a NOS 1940s RCA 1633 for $15 USD.   In a couple years, the 6SN7 equivalent will probably be well over $100, seems prices are rising exponentially.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Mordy...
> 
> Agree, there is not much to be had in 25v land...



The 13D1 and 1940s 1633 are dam good tubes for little money.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Changing the subject to things that are not at all affordable...at double the price, do you think there is any advantage to the Duelund caps over the PIO Jupiters, Glenn?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> I have been using the RCA WW2 12SX7GT for some 50 hours now. It seems to me that it is a 12SN7 variant.
> Bottom line: IMHO this is a top level driver tube well worth trying, right up there with the best with the combination I am using (EL8/4x6080 RCA/Bendix).



The 12SX7 is  the same as a 12SN7 but can be used with lower plate voltage 26 volts.
I think the 13D1 is like that too but the filament can run on 26 volts also. I bought ten 13D1s from a aviation supply for $13 each.
The voltage in planes is 26 volts so these tubes were perfect for avionics.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Changing the subject to things that are not at all affordable...at double the price, do you think there is any advantage to the Duelund caps over the PIO Jupiters, Glenn?



Hell no I won't even use them anymore A customer has a 300B amp that the Duelund capacitors are leaking oil.
Way to expensive to be doing that.
Boutique junk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> The 12SX7 is  the same as a 12SN7 but can be used with lower plate voltage 26 volts.
> I think the 13D1 is like that too but the filament can run on 26 volts also. I bought ten 13D1s from a aviation supply for $13 each.
> The voltage in planes is 26 volts so these tubes were perfect for avionics.


After burn in the 12SX7 has a similar mellow sound to the 13D1.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 2, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Hell no I won't even use them anymore A customer has a 300B amp that the Duelund capacitors are leaking oil.
> Way to expensive to be doing that.
> Boutique junk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Wow, glad I asked.  Surely this is a feature, the oil lubricates the circuit and smooths transient response of the amplifier, right? 

I guess I will stick to the Jupiters, assuming they don't leak.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Wow, glad I asked.  Surely this is a feature, the oil lubricates and smooths transient response of the amplifier, right?
> 
> I guess I will stick to the Jupiters, assuming they don't leak.



Jupitor uses bees wax as the dielectric really can't leak unless they get really hot.
Don't really know if any of these capacitors sound much better then the stock Russian paper in oil.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Jupitor uses bees wax as the dielectric really can't leak unless they get really hot.
> Don't really know if any of these capacitors sound much better then the stock Russian paper in oil.



Gotcha, thanks Glenn.  After being a student for a straight decade, the GOTL will be my "I finished graduate school" gift to myself, so I sort of decided to pull out all the stops with the caps, Goldpoint, etc.


----------



## mordy

If you are interested in WE 421A:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Mint-NOS...970449?hash=item5d8bc60ad1:g:LxsAAOSwOwpc7-il


----------



## JazzVinyl

I kept the Mullard 6080's but swapped out the Syl 6SN7W, back to the NOS Visseaux 6N7GT...

As good as the 6SN7W is....there is something awful special about this 6N7, in Glenn's topology.

Superb sounding tube, this Visseaux 6N7GT...

Cheers, All....


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I kept the Mullard 6080's but swapped out the Syl 6SN7W, back to the NOS Visseaux 6N7GT...
> 
> As good as the 6SN7W is....there is something awful special about this 6N7, in Glenn's topology.
> 
> ...


The Visseux 6N7GT has a hard hitting bass. If you can find a National Union 6N7GT it has an overall sweeter tone with the same virtues as the VSX.


----------



## heliosphann (Jun 3, 2019)

mordy said:


> The Visseux 6N7GT has a hard hitting bass. If you can find a National Union 6N7GT it has an overall sweeter tone with the same virtues as the VSX.



I'm going to have to start taking notes. I didn't realize that 6n7's were completely different tubes from 6sn7's. lol


----------



## mordy

Hi heliosphann,
Wait a minute - 6N7 comes in three flavors; no three very different versions:
6N7 metal tube:





Great bargains cause they don't have any tube glow.
6N7G: This is a shoulder type tube. 




And finally the 6N7GT with straight tubular glass:




All the above tubes require an adapter for use in 6SN7 sockets.
The metal tubes are all US made, the ST type were made by US and European factories, and the GT by Russian factories in addition.

PS: What is a V531?


----------



## heliosphann

mordy said:


> Hi heliosphann,
> Wait a minute - 6N7 comes in three flavors; no three very different versions:
> 6N7 metal tube:
> 
> ...



I just did an E-bay search a few hours ago and found all those variants. Crazy!!! Looks like I need to get an adapter. Any particular place/person I should inquire about one?

Whoops, that last part was from a half deleted post. I meant to say I have a pair or National Union grey glass VT-231's. Not sure how they compare to the NU 6N7's.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> Any particular place/person I should inquire about one?



Drop this guy a PM

https://www.ebay.com/usr/ein_sof?ul_noapp=true


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Drop this guy a PM
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/usr/ein_sof?ul_noapp=true



And you can also use this adapter with the Mullard ECC31.


----------



## mordy

Hi Glenn,
What is the safe maximum operating temperature for the GOTL?


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 3, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> What is the safe maximum operating temperature for the GOTL?



Running regular tubes I would not worry about it at all....the chassis is a huge heat sink.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Running regular tubes I would not worry about it at all....the chassis is a huge heat sink.


I am using 4x6080 + three drivers and the amp gets quite warm. I am not sure, but I seem to remember that Glenn mentioned max 130 degrees for the transformer, but I think it was C and not F.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> I am using 4x6080 + three drivers and the amp gets quite warm. I am not sure, but I seem to remember that Glenn mentioned max 130 degrees for the transformer, but I think it was C and not F.



Well, maybe running all of that...then you have a legitimate question


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> I am using 4x6080 + three drivers and the amp gets quite warm. I am not sure, but I seem to remember that Glenn mentioned max 130 degrees for the transformer, but I think it was C and not F.



Im curious as well. 

I think the running temperature of the 6336 is much much higher than 130 F. Those tubes are little nuclear reactors.


----------



## mordy

The spec sheets for both the 6080WB and the 6336B quote the same max envelope temperature of 300 degrees. However, it seems to me that the amp should stay at a significantly lower temperature.
I measured 269 degrees F from the Bendix graphite tubes with a room temperature of 76F. Different parts of the tubes measure different temperatures, but this was the maximum I got.
Fan cooling significantly lowers the tube temperature to 210F.
Time to put on the AC....
All the readings are supposed to made at 1m distance with an infrared thermometer - I was not specially careful to measure the distance and only approximated, but the distance influences the readings.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> What is the safe maximum operating temperature for the GOTL?



How hot is the chassis getting?
It should not get over 80 deg C
That is 176 deg F


----------



## attmci

heliosphann said:


> I'm going to have to start taking notes. I didn't realize that 6n7's were completely different tubes from 6sn7's. lol


Man, you are a _*true*_ headphone and amp roller. 

Tube rolling is fun, but not super effective comparing what you were doing.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> How hot is the chassis getting?
> It should not get over 80 deg C
> That is 176 deg F


The chassis stays  between 35 and 45 C (with fan cooling and w/o fan cooling). I assume that the warranty is still in effect lol.
One of the graphite 6080WB tubes measured 312F at a tube hotspot; with my little 4" fan on (mounted above the amp in my rack) the temp dropped to 240F.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jun 4, 2019)

mordy said:


> The chassis stays  between 35 and 45 C (with fan cooling and w/o fan cooling). I assume that the warranty is still in effect lol.
> One of the graphite 6080WB tubes measured 312F at a tube hotspot; with my little 4" fan on (mounted above the amp in my rack) the temp dropped to 240F.



What are you driving that you need four 6080s and who knows what drivers ???
The amp can handle allot but if you don't need to use four 6080 why have that many.
Are you trying to blow the amp up?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Jupitor uses bees wax as the dielectric really can't leak unless they get really hot.
> Don't really know if any of these capacitors sound much better then the stock Russian paper in oil.



The stock Russian paper in oil sure sounds good.


----------



## UntilThen

I have a variety of 6N7, 6N7GT tubes. Whilst they sound good, I do not consider them better than the best of 6SN7s and Mullard ECC3*. Far from it. 

I'm back to running Sylvania 6SN7W metal base with 6 x 6bx7gt. This is my ideal combo and it's shockingly quiet. In fact, this is my quietest tube combination.  And the sound? Well Jetl2359 runs his super GOTL with just this combo.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> What are you driving that you need four 6080s ???
> The amp can handle allot but if you don't need to use four 6080 why have that many.
> Are you trying to blow the amp up?



I wonder too because in Mordy's case he's only using the GOTL as a preamp to his amp to drive his speakers.

A pair of 6080s gives out quite a lot of heat. 4 will be hot.2wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwsssssssssssssssssssswaaaaaaaaaaawsw]=\poiu8y7t6r5e4w3q2


----------



## UntilThen

That's what happens when I try to clean the keyboard while typing.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> That's what happens when I try to clean the keyboard while typing.



Interesting.


----------



## whirlwind

When I tried 4 power tubes, like four 5998 tubes or even four Mullard 6080 tubes, the difference in sound did not warrant me burning more tubes, even with planars.
I had to use adapters to do so......not sure if that had any impact.

Even one set of Bendix 6080 are hot.....two sets I would want socket savers to get heat away from chassis
6336 are even hotter running....they provide lots of power to planar cans, but even two nice 6AS7G do the trick with much less heat.

I really never worry about heat as I don't run anything crazy....that being said....the OTL is still hot compared to GEL3N.
I see most guys that do run a lot of tubes use socket savers and that is a great idea.

On the topic of driver tubes , why the Mullard drivers sound so good is a bit of a mystery to me, as they really don't have the ideal operating points.
Yet I love the sound of everyone of them that I have tried.....on a quest for ECC33 now.

Makes you wonder how these would sound with the ability to bias the tubes, but as Glenn said...eventually somebody would blow up expensive tubes.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> When I tried 4 power tubes, like four 5998 tubes or even four Mullard 6080 tubes, the difference in sound did not warrant me burning more tubes, even with planars.
> I had to use adapters to do so......not sure if that had any impact.
> 
> Even one set of Bendix 6080 are hot.....two sets I would want socket savers to get heat away from chassis
> ...


The quality of the socket saver could be a problem here. I had to  get  rid of many  questionable socket distroyers.

The good ones are too expensive.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> What are you driving that you need four 6080s and who knows what drivers ???


We need the amp to go to 11.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> The stock Russian paper in oil sure sounds good.




Wonderful and underrated Matt.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> What are you driving that you need four 6080s and who knows what drivers ???
> The amp can handle allot but if you don't need to use four 6080 why have that many.
> Are you trying to blow the amp up?


Hi Glenn,
I must say that I find your comments a little puzzling. However, I do not have any background in electronics and may not understand how to operate the GOTL properly.
However, the amp is rated for 13A (and with fan cooling 14A), and it seems to me that if I am careful not to exceed 13A it is safe.
When you sent a GOTL to demonstrate ZMF headphones at a show, the GOTL used a pair of 6336B tubes. These tubes are said to be double 6080 tubes. What is the difference in using one pair of 6336 tubes compared to four 6080 tubes in terms of current draw and heat? (Granted that the 6336 is rated at 4.75A and the 6080 at 2.5A, but there is only 0.5A difference.)
I know that some people frown at mixing different power tubes - they all have to be identical; say 6x6BX7 or 4xMullard 6080 etc. Being unfettered by knowledge I tried various unconventional combinations, sometimes with great results.
In the past I found that adding an extra pair of the identical power tube made it sound _*worse*_ (as an example 2xBendix 6080WB vs 4xBendix 6080WB).
I like the sound of the RCA 6080 which has a beautiful brassy mid bass. And I like the Bendix 6080WB which packs a lot of low end punch. I found out that by combining both pairs it brought out the best qualities of both in the sound presentation, and this is why use four 6080 tubes.
As for drivers, and based on JV's suggestion, I discovered that in certain combinations three drivers added very positively to the sound.
I use a pair of EL8 tubes in the C3g sockets. They draw 1A as a pair compared to 0.75A for a pair of C3g tubes.The EL8 tubes seem to flesh out the total sound. The other day I put in a pair of C3g tubes instead, but the sound became very thin sounding and unpleasant with the combination I am using. 
These six tubes I am using seem to be a very synergistic and beautiful platform for me, and allows every driver in the front 6SN7 socket to fully express it's own flavor. The current draw of the front driver varies from 0.15A to 0.9A depending on the tube.
No tube combination will exceed 11-12A, so I am not worried about any possibility of blowing up the amp, and I would feel terrible if that happened.
On Whirlwind's suggestion I put in the high quality socket savers that Deyan made for me. Most of the chassis is under 45 degrees C with a hot spot between the 6080 tubes reaching 55 C, all well under the 80C maximum.
As UT mentioned, most of my listening is done via speakers, but even using my T1 headphones I thoroughly enjoy the sound.
It seems to me that Glenn did not have in mind using triple drivers but it works very well for me and brings me tremendous musical enjoyment. 
PS: With the little 4" fan on now the chassis temperature dropped a full 10C to 35C.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> I must say that I find your comments a little puzzling. However, I do not have any background in electronics and may not understand how to operate the GOTL properly.
> However, the amp is rated for 13A (and with fan cooling 14A), and it seems to me that if I am careful not to exceed 13A it is safe.
> When you sent a GOTL to demonstrate ZMF headphones at a show, the GOTL used a pair of 6336B tubes. These tubes are said to be double 6080 tubes. What is the difference in using one pair of 6336 tubes compared to four 6080 tubes in terms of current draw and heat? (Granted that the 6336 is rated at 4.75A and the 6080 at 2.5A, but there is only 0.5A difference.)
> ...



I think it will be OK.
But do you really need four 6080s to drive the input of another amp??


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Hypothetical question for you all.  Since there are so many options for the GOTL, I'm curious what people think the most important tube in their collection is for listening enjoyment 

If you could only keep one specific tube in your GOTL permanently (driver, power, or rectifier), but could keep rolling any of the others, what would it be and why?

For example, maybe you think the Sylvania 6BX7GT is the best sounding tube you roll and is a mainstay of your GOTL setup, so you would rather keep six of them in the amp for the rest of time and keep rolling drivers and rectifiers.


----------



## Monsterzero

Tonight

Mullard ECC35
TS 5998s
Mullard GZ32

Excellent separation and fantastic depth/mids on Verite.


----------



## Monsterzero

Safety Question:

Would it be safe to try 5998s x2+RCA 6080s x2 together with 6SN7 and rect?
My mind is curious as how it would sound with those two power tubes combined. One offers a wide airy sound,while thother offers a warm dark deep sound. I just dont wanna blow up my amp.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> What are you driving that you need four 6080s and who knows what drivers ???
> The amp can handle allot but if you don't need to use four 6080 why have that many.
> Are you trying to blow the amp up?


Glenn - I thought I remember reading a comment a while back, maybe even by you, that 4 x 6080 tubes would be better to drive a low-impedance (sub-100 ohm) headphones?


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Safety Question:
> 
> Would it be safe to try 5998s x2+RCA 6080s x2 together with 6SN7 and rect?
> My mind is curious as how it would sound with those two power tubes combined. One offers a wide airy sound,while thother offers a warm dark deep sound. I just dont wanna blow up my amp.



I recall pairing 5998 with 6as7g and there was some interference noise. 5998 and 7236 on the other hand is ok. Which leads me to my next post as to why I stop mixing power tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Glenn - I thought I remember reading a comment a while back, maybe even by you, that 4 x 6080 tubes would be better to drive a low-impedance (sub-100 ohm) headphones?



Yes using four 6080 or 6AS7 even two 6336 is for low impedance phones.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jun 5, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Safety Question:
> 
> Would it be safe to try 5998s x2+RCA 6080s x2 together with 6SN7 and rect?
> My mind is curious as how it would sound with those two power tubes combined. One offers a wide airy sound,while thother offers a warm dark deep sound. I just dont wanna blow up my amp.



You won't blow up your amp but I don't know how it will sound. these tubes have different gain might sound weard.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hypothetical question for you all.  Since there are so many options for the GOTL, I'm curious what people think the most important tube in their collection is for listening enjoyment
> 
> If you could only keep one specific tube in your GOTL permanently (driver, power, or rectifier), but could keep rolling any of the others, what would it be and why?
> 
> For example, maybe you think the Sylvania 6BX7GT is the best sounding tube you roll and is a mainstay of your GOTL setup, so you would rather keep six of them in the amp for the rest of time and keep rolling drivers and rectifiers.



Having done my share of tube rolling, I'm happy to keep using 6 x 6bx7gt or 6BL7gt/gta. So much so I let go of the pair of GEC 6as7g and sold it to MonsterZero. The 6bx7 or 6BL7 gives the blend of dynamics, impact, speed and sufficient tubiness. I like bass that is taut and tight and not loose. Mids that project the vocals very well. Highs clear and precise without sounding shrill. All these are presented by the 6b*7 tubes. 6 of them no less.

I've mix and match power tubes in the past. If you flip through the thread, you'll see those pictures. After a year's worth of tube rolling, I still reckon the 6b*7 tubes are my preferred sound signature. All I have to do now is to swap my top ten drivers and that's it.  Oh yeah, play the music.

YMMV.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 5, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Having done my share of tube rolling, I'm happy to keep using 6 x 6bx7gt or 6BL7gt/gta. So much so I let go of the pair of GEC 6as7g and sold it to MonsterZero. The 6bx7 or 6BL7 gives the blend of dynamics, impact, speed and sufficient tubiness. I like bass that is taut and tight and not loose. Mids that project the vocals very well. Highs clear and precise without sounding shrill. All these are presented by the 6b*7 tubes. 6 of them no less.
> 
> I've mix and match power tubes in the past. If you flip through the thread, you'll see those pictures. After a year's worth of tube rolling, I still reckon the 6b*7 tubes are my preferred sound signature. All I have to do now is to swap my top ten drivers and that's it.  Oh yeah, play the music.
> 
> YMMV.



Thanks for humoring me, UT.  The 6BX7/6BL7 must really be something to be mentioned in the same sentence as the MOV A1834, this is one of the best power tubes I have in my current amp, can't wait to hear the 6B*7 in the GOTL.  I think I have a shipment of RCA clear top 6BX7 and Sylvania 6BL7 flat plates coming in the mail today...I will pass the time by staring at them and imagining how great they sound


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks for humoring me, UT.  The 6BX7/6BL7 must really be something to be mentioned in the same sentence as the MOV A1834, this is one of the best power tubes I have in my current amp, can't wait to hear the 6B*7 in the GOTL.  I think I have a shipment of RCA clear top 6BX7 and Sylvania 6BL7 flat plates coming in the mail today...I will pass the time by staring at them and imagining how great they sound



All these power tubes in the picture were elevated to my gold standard. I have others such as the RCA 6AS7G, RCA 6080, Svetlana 6H13C. They don't make the cut.  Yet out of all these, I prefer sextet 6BX7/6BL7 in my GOTL.

There's only one review of the GOTL and it's done by this gentleman. Naturally he prefers the 6 x 6BL7 too. 
https://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/42754587


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> All these power tubes in the picture were elevated to my gold standard. I have others such as the RCA 6AS7G, RCA 6080, Svetlana 6H13C. They don't make the cut.  Yet out of all these, I prefer sextet 6BX7/6BL7 in my GOTL.
> 
> There's only one review of the GOTL and it's done by this gentleman. Naturally he prefers the 6 x 6BL7 too.
> https://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/42754587



A nice collection!  At the time of receiving my GOTL I will have a similar lineup, except I will not have a pair of the A1834 (I have a single from Stavros for my Bottlehead amp).  I have a pair of Marconi 6080 en route from the UK and plan to purchase some 6336/6528 for low Z headphones.

Some power tubes I plan to roll through which I have not seen in the thread are the Tung Sol 7802 and some Japanese-made Toshiba 6080.  We'll see how they fare against the special 6BX7s, hopefully mine are quiet!


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> A nice collection!  At the time of receiving my GOTL I will have a similar lineup, except I will not have a pair of the A1834 (I have a single from Stavros for my Bottlehead amp).  I have a pair of Marconi 6080 en route from the UK and plan to purchase some 6336/6528 for low Z headphones.
> 
> Some power tubes I plan to roll through which I have not seen in the thread are the Tung Sol 7802 and some Japanese-made Toshiba 6080.  We'll see how they fare against the special 6BX7s, hopefully mine are quiet!



Give the 6BX7s some time to burn in. When I tried them at first I really didn’t think too much of them, thought they were ok. After about 75 hours they really came into their own and that’s when they became some of my favorite tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> Give the 6BX7s some time to burn in. When I tried them at first I really didn’t think too much of them, thought they were ok. After about 75 hours they really came into their own and that’s when they became some of my favorite tubes.



I for sure will, the tube burn-in is essential.  Cannot wait.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Some power tubes I plan to roll through which I have not seen in the thread are the Tung Sol 7802



When are you getting your amp?
The selfish part of me hopes theyre nothing special in the GOTL,cuz I cant find them anywhere!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 5, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> When are you getting your amp?
> The selfish part of me hopes theyre nothing special in the GOTL,cuz I cant find them anywhere!



I can't be sure, I am probably at the bottom of the queue and Glenn said in the thread a week or so ago the wait time was end of summer/early fall.  Right now I am channeling my excitement by getting my GOTL tube welcome wagon ready.

Yeah, the 7802 is very, very scarce, finding a single is hard enough.  I recently saw an eBay listing where someone was selling a Woo Audio WA2 with Black Gate caps plus a tube package, came with a pair of Tung Sol 7802WB graphite plates.  I PM'd him to see if he would part with the tubes separately, but I was ignored.  It sold a week later.

In retrospect, I wish I would have bought the whole package and resold the amp, it came with matched pairs of Tung Sol 5998, Chatham 6AS7G, Tung Sol 6080WB graphite plates (clear tops and side getter, which I have never seen before), and Tung Sol 7802WB.  The value proposition with the tubes was very high.

I had not signed on to team GOTL at the time though, oh well I guess!

Edit: here is a crop of the side getter Tung Sol 6080WB.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> A nice collection!  At the time of receiving my GOTL I will have a similar lineup, except I will not have a pair of the A1834 (I have a single from Stavros for my Bottlehead amp).  I have a pair of Marconi 6080 en route from the UK and plan to purchase some 6336/6528 for low Z headphones.
> 
> Some power tubes I plan to roll through which I have not seen in the thread are the Tung Sol 7802 and some Japanese-made Toshiba 6080.  We'll see how they fare against the special 6BX7s, hopefully mine are quiet!





UntilThen said:


> Having done my share of tube rolling, I'm happy to keep using 6 x 6bx7gt or 6BL7gt/gta. So much so I let go of the pair of GEC 6as7g and sold it to MonsterZero. The 6bx7 or 6BL7 gives the blend of dynamics, impact, speed and sufficient tubiness. I like bass that is taut and tight and not loose. Mids that project the vocals very well. Highs clear and precise without sounding shrill. All these are presented by the 6b*7 tubes. 6 of them no less.
> 
> I've mix and match power tubes in the past. If you flip through the thread, you'll see those pictures. After a year's worth of tube rolling, I still reckon the 6b*7 tubes are my preferred sound signature. All I have to do now is to swap my top ten drivers and that's it.  Oh yeah, play the music.
> 
> YMMV.


Hi UT,
It is interesting that I have settled on the power tubes and mainly just roll different drivers as well. My power tubes are different though - had a lot of trouble in the beginning with the sextet of BX tubes, some of it related to finding good ones and quiet ones (and other factors such as bad socket savers).
Had Deyan make me a professional quality socket saver for the front 6SN7 socket - supposed to hold up for thousands of uses.
But the main thing is, as you say, to enjoy the music.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

The new recruits have arrived, to the barracks they go!


----------



## attmci (Jun 5, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks for humoring me, UT.  The 6BX7/6BL7 must really be something to be mentioned in the same sentence as the MOV A1834, this is one of the best power tubes I have in my current amp, can't wait to hear the 6B*7 in the GOTL.  I think I have a shipment of RCA clear top 6BX7 and Sylvania 6BL7 flat plates coming in the mail today...I will pass the time by staring at them and imagining how great they sound


I have no problem to use a couple on a Crack. But YMMV.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> The new recruits have arrived, to the barracks they go!


A lot of 6BX7 tubes were made by GE, including Tung Sol, Westinghouse, Philco and RCA branded tubes. Just look for the telltale GE distinctive print and sand blasted dots (date codes) under the letters.
Here is a Philco (Sylvania) tube, but my RCA and Westinghouse tubes have the same print and dots.


----------



## mordy

The early Sylvania flat plates are supposed to be among the best sounding BL tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 5, 2019)

mordy said:


> A lot of 6BX7 tubes were made by GE, including Tung Sol, Westinghouse, Philco and RCA branded tubes. Just look for the telltale GE distinctive print and sand blasted dots (date codes) under the letters.
> Here is a Philco (Sylvania) tube, but my RCA and Westinghouse tubes have the same print and dots.



Thanks, Mordy. I went to lengths to make sure they did not have the telltale GE acid etching before buying. I did the same for my Tung Sols, however, there are some TS in the wild that lack the typical GE signs, they look in every way the part of a Tung Sol 6BX7 except for the internal plate and mica structure, which is GE.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 5, 2019)

attmci said:


> I have no problem to use a couple on a Crack. But YMMV.



I was just reading on the BH forum, I do not have a 2:1 adapter, but a single 6BX7 is safe to throw in the Crackatwoa, even if the circuit is not optimal.

Holy smokes, even a single 6BX7 in an unoptimized circuit sounds very, very good with the Atticus!  No wonder you guys love these tubes.  This bass is deep.  Guess I have a way to check them for noise now


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I was just reading on the BH forum, I do not have a 2:1 adapter, but a single 6BX7 is safe to throw in the Crackatwoa, even if the circuit is not optimal.
> 
> Holy smokes, even a single 6BX7 in an unoptimized circuit sounds very, very good with the Atticus!  No wonder you guys love these tubes.  This bass is deep.  Guess I have a way to check them for noise now



Try the Sylvania flat plate.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks, Mordy. I went to lengths to make sure they did not have the telltale GE acid etching before buying. I did the same for my Tung Sols, however, there are some TS in the wild that lack the typical GE signs, they look in every way the part of a Tung Sol 6BX7 except for the internal plate and mica structure, which is GE.


I have a bunch of 6BL7 tubes and started to compare them. The internal structure of the Tung Sols looks similar to the GE tubes and here I mean the TS tubes that don't have GE etchings on them, but looking closely they are different with different numbers of tags on the micas and different sizes of the holes in the plates. It seems to me that it would be difficult to compare from pictures alone compared to having them in your hand.
Except that these TS tubes look identical to the Sylvania X-plate 6BL7 tubes.....
I am getting confused.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Holy smokes, even a single 6BX7 in an unoptimized circuit sounds very, very good with the Atticus!



With a sextett of 6BX7s the Atticus' bass was absurd.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> With a sextett of 6BX7s the Atticus' bass was absurd.



Absurdly good or absurdly bad? 

When I had the Atticus, it sounded great with 6 x GE 6bx7gt. I am not partial to brands in these 6B*7 tubes. They did not sound that dissimilar to me. Slight difference maybe but I don't get down to scrutinising that. The important thing for me is that they are quiet tubes. I even have a mixture of Fivre and Los Gatos (Tung Sol) 6BX7gt running together.


----------



## attmci (Jun 5, 2019)

mordy said:


> I have a bunch of 6BL7 tubes and started to compare them. The internal structure of the Tung Sols looks similar to the GE tubes and here I mean the TS tubes that don't have GE etchings on them, but looking closely they are different with different numbers of tags on the micas and different sizes of the holes in the plates. It seems to me that it would be difficult to compare from pictures alone compared to having them in your hand.
> Except that these TS tubes look identical to the Sylvania X-plate 6BL7 tubes.....
> I am getting confused.


Mordy, I had a TS 6bl7 which has a foil getter and sounds great. Unfortunately, I no longer have it.

The Syl flat plate is ok but not much better than the other 6bl7/bx7s on my amp.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 5, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Absurdly good or absurdly bad?



Depends on tastes and musical choices. With classic rock,blues,prog and electronica it was a really fun sound. With melodeath and any fast music the bass got in the way.
For example,if you listen to music this fast,or faster and like a clean,quick sound IMO 6x 6BX7s +Atticus was too much.



Its also worth mentioning that at the time I had the Atticus the only rectifier I had was the GZ32,which is a very warm,bass heavy rectifier,so that probably had a lot to do with it,but I listen to faster music than whats posted above,and ultimately I preferred the Autuer+Verite combo,and the Atticus was sacrificed to partially fund that combo. If I were a rich man,I'd never have sold the Atticus.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> You won't blow up your amp but I don't know how it will sound. these tubes have different gain might sound weard.



I will hold off from trying it then. I am gonna grab a WE 422a next,pair that up with the RCA 6080s and see how that goes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 5, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Try the Sylvania flat plate.



Very good impressions of the Sylvania 6BL7 too Glenn, switched to the Auteur and a fancier driver tube.  Can't wait to hear them in your amp.

Edit: on further listening, there is some looseness and distortion to the bass, as if the headphones are not properly damped.  Definitely a circuit compatibility issue, not an indictment of the tube itself, the rest of the spectrum shows its potential.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 5, 2019)

mordy said:


> I have a bunch of 6BL7 tubes and started to compare them. The internal structure of the Tung Sols looks similar to the GE tubes and here I mean the TS tubes that don't have GE etchings on them, but looking closely they are different with different numbers of tags on the micas and different sizes of the holes in the plates. It seems to me that it would be difficult to compare from pictures alone compared to having them in your hand.
> Except that these TS tubes look identical to the Sylvania X-plate 6BL7 tubes.....
> I am getting confused.



Here is how I determined the GEs from the TSs.  The very knowledgeable @gibosi cleared my first purchase as being legitimate TS manufactured 6BX7, so that has been my template.  I also compared them with several photos in the thread to be sure.  The fully GE manufactured are easy to pick out due to the acid etching and larger base.  The second pictured are tricky, as the glass envelope and the short base are the same as the TS manufactured.  However, you can see that the "teeth" of the mica are much more finely spaced, and the exterior portion of the plate is not flush with the bottom mica while the interior is, which is the same as the GE.  On one of my TS manufactured in the last picture, the mica "teeth" are ~1 cm apart, and the interior and exterior of the plates are both flush with the bottom mica.  I don't have any Tung Sol 6BL7s, so I'm not sure if the same holds true.

Does any of this matter sound wise?  I have no idea, I just wanted my set to have matched construction!


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is how I determined the GEs from the TSs.  The very knowledgeable @gibosi cleared my first purchase as being legitimate TS manufactured 6BX7, so that has been my template.  I also compared them with several photos in the thread to be sure.  The fully GE manufactured are easy to pick out due to the acid etching and larger base.  The second pictured are tricky, as the glass envelope and the short base are the same as the TS manufactured.  However, you can see that the "teeth" of the mica are much more finely spaced, and the exterior portion of the plate is not flush with the bottom mica while the interior is, which is the same as the GE.  On one of my TS manufactured in the last picture, the mica "teeth" are ~1 cm apart, and the interior and exterior of the plates are both flush with the bottom mica.  I don't have any Tung Sol 6BL7s, so I'm not sure if the same holds true.
> 
> Does any of this matter sound wise?  I have no idea, I just wanted my set to have matched construction!







I like to have sets match also, that way you can tell if there is a difference in the sound, compared to another set.

These have just arrived from @gibosi 
Mullard GZ32 rectifier and a set of  Eindhoven EL3N manufactured in 1944.    Just starting to give them a listen.


----------



## heliosphann

Man, I had a helluva time getting together 6 close production GE 6BX7's. Is it worth trying to get another 6 of another manufacturer?


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> Man, I had a helluva time getting together 6 close production GE 6BX7's. Is it worth trying to get another 6 of another manufacturer?



It would be a great way to compare their sound or maybe a set of 6BL7


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> The second pictured are tricky, as the glass envelope and the short base are the same as the TS manufactured. However, you can see that the "teeth" of the mica are much more finely spaced, and the exterior portion of the plate is not flush with the bottom mica while the interior is, which is the same as the GE. On one of my TS manufactured in the last picture, the mica "teeth" are ~1 cm apart, and the interior and exterior of the plates are both flush with the bottom mica. I don't have any Tung Sol 6BL7s, so I'm not sure if the same holds true.



Tung-Sol didn't begin to manufacture the 6BX7 until around 1960. And their first tubes had black plates, a top halo getter and identical top and bottom micas with 8 equal-spaced teeth. A few years later, around 1965 I would guess, Tung-Sol changed to gray plates, a top round foil getter and micas very similar to GE's. Also note that since they were manufactured in the mid-1960's the pins are "sharper" than their older tubes. And of course, they do not have GE's signature sandblasted tube info.




If in doubt the best way to be sure it was manufactured by TS is to check the top of the bottle. Under the octagon containing the tube number, a 6BX7 manufactured by TS will always have "U.S.A. 3" (unless of course it has been rubbed out.).


----------



## gibosi

heliosphann said:


> Man, I had a helluva time getting together 6 close production GE 6BX7's. Is it worth trying to get another 6 of another manufacturer?



It depends... Some feel that there isn't enough difference between the brands to be worth the bother. But to my ears, they are in fact different enough, and cheap enough to be well worth the bother. But as always... my ears and my gear... YMMV.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Tung-Sol didn't begin to manufacture the 6BX7 until around 1960. And their first tubes had black plates, a top halo getter and identical top and bottom micas with 8 equal-spaced teeth. A few years later, around 1965 I would guess, Tung-Sol changed to gray plates, a top round foil getter and micas very similar to GE's. Also note that since they were manufactured in the mid-1960's the pins are "sharper" than their older tubes. And of course, they do not have GE's signature sandblasted tube info.
> 
> 
> 
> If in doubt the best way to be sure it was manufactured by TS is to check the top of the bottle. Under the octagon containing the tube number, a 6BX7 manufactured by TS will always have "U.S.A. 3" (unless of course it has been rubbed out.).


Hi Gibosi,
Using your guide I examined 5 6BL7 TS tubes that I have. Two are made by GE, another two by TS factory 3, and the fifth one is dated July 1957 and looks like this on top:



The letters under the octagon are D6M which is Sylvania speak for April 1956. 
Re the TS tubes, did anybody ever decipher the three digit date codes? Mine are KR3 and NZ3. The 3 could represent the factory code, but I never found a guide to the other two letters.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Re the TS tubes, did anybody ever decipher the three digit date codes? Mine are KR3 and NZ3. The 3 could represent the factory code, but I never found a guide to the other two letters.



I don't think I have ever seen a key to those three digit codes. However, on some tubes manufactured in the Chatham factory after TS's acquisition I have seen "U.S.A. 5", so at the very least, I am inclined to think that "3" indicates a Tung-Sol factory and "5" a former Chatham factory.


----------



## heliosphann

whirlwind said:


> It would be a great way to compare their sound or maybe a set of 6BL7



I got a NOS pair of x6 RCA 6BL7's (with the short bases).


----------



## attmci (Jun 5, 2019)

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6bl7-tube-users.806043/

Yes, USA 3. I almost forgot. Haven't touch these tubes for a while.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6bl7-tube-users.806043/page-31


----------



## UntilThen

What do I listen to? What else than our favourite sons - Jimmy Barnes. He's got talent. Scottish ones.


----------



## UntilThen

And this great vocals


----------



## UntilThen

This rendition of Lazy by Deep Purple is gold. Great musicians here and Jimmy coming on late for the vocals.


----------



## UntilThen

His singing gets better as he aged. Look how young Joe is.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> This rendition of Lazy by Deep Purple is gold. Great musicians here and Jimmy coming on late for the vocals.





Yeah, that was pretty kick A$$


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Hey my friends - FYI the site Vacuum Tubes Inc. has large stock of both 6BL7 and 6BX7, around 400 and 200 tubes respectively.  I contacted the owner, Jim, directly via email.  They charge $12 per 6BX7, $10 per 6BL7, but he did add on an additional $2.50 per tube since I asked for specific construction and matching build, so $14.50 and $12.50 per tube total.  Should have plenty of GE, Sylvania, and RCA in stock.  I did buy my RCA 6BX7 clear tops and Tung Sol 6BX7 from him, so I think they are out of those specifically.  All came NOS with original box.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

I stopped buying 6BX7/6BL7 power tubes after collecting this little stash. Hope they are quiet enough when the amp gets here. Will get @2359glenn 's GEC driver recommendation and maybe @UntilThen 's Sylvania 6SN7W recommendation later once I get a chance to listen to what I have got


----------



## Zachik

What is the sonic difference between the 6BX7 and 6BL7 ?
Looking to pair with ZMF headphones (Atticus and Verite).


----------



## whirlwind

UsoppNoKami said:


> I stopped buying 6BX7/6BL7 power tubes after collecting this little stash. Hope they are quiet enough when the amp gets here. Will get @2359glenn 's GEC driver recommendation and maybe @UntilThen 's Sylvania 6SN7W recommendation later once I get a chance to listen to what I have got




Very nice stash. You should have something quiet from all of those.
6BX7 has less gain so better chance of being quiet with more sensitive headphones.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

whirlwind said:


> Very nice stash. You should have something quiet from all of those.
> 6BX7 has less gain so better chance of being quiet with more sensitive headphones.



Fingers crossed... Also looking forward to hearing how they fare against GEC 6AS7G, TS 5998 and WE421A .. #teamwarmpoo XD


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> I stopped buying 6BX7/6BL7 power tubes after collecting this little stash. Hope they are quiet enough when the amp gets here. Will get @2359glenn 's GEC driver recommendation and maybe @UntilThen 's Sylvania 6SN7W recommendation later once I get a chance to listen to what I have got



Is this a warehouse?


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> What is the sonic difference between the 6BX7 and 6BL7 ?
> Looking to pair with ZMF headphones (Atticus and Verite).



Sonically the difference is between an X and a L. 

How I hear it:-

6BL7

louder (more gain)
brighter
more impact which could be as a result of more gain - and also appears to have a stronger bass
gloss - there's a sheen to the tone
6BX7

matte - not glossy like the 6BL7
less gain, more dial back and more in control (to my ears)
there's still a lot of punch and impact (6 of them). Just not as much as 6 of 6BL7. Rest assure that there's enough to rock your boat.

I've a preference for the 6BX7 but I don't mind the 6BL7.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey my friends - FYI the site Vacuum Tubes Inc. has large stock of both 6BL7 and 6BX7, around 400 and 200 tubes respectively.  I contacted the owner, Jim, directly via email.  They charge $12 per 6BX7, $10 per 6BL7, but he did add on an additional $2.50 per tube since I asked for specific construction and matching build, so $14.50 and $12.50 per tube total.  Should have plenty of GE, Sylvania, and RCA in stock.  I did buy my RCA 6BX7 clear tops and Tung Sol 6BX7 from him, so I think they are out of those specifically.  All came NOS with original box.



Thanks for this. Might just get another 6.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 6, 2019)

UsoppNoKami said:


> I stopped buying 6BX7/6BL7 power tubes after collecting this little stash. Hope they are quiet enough when the amp gets here. Will get @2359glenn 's GEC driver recommendation and maybe @UntilThen 's Sylvania 6SN7W recommendation later once I get a chance to listen to what I have got



Very nice stash!  Mine is almost complete, just a few Japanese imports to mark of the shopping list.  It's a good thing too, if I buy too many more tubes they're going to feature me on one of those "hoarder" TV shows.

On today's episode, some NOS tubes from the UK.  These MOV 6080s sound great paired with a Fivre 6SN7 and the HD650, delicate but nuanced.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Very nice stash!  Mine is almost complete, just a few Japanese imports to mark of the shopping list.  It's a good thing too, if I buy too many more tubes they're going to feature me on one of those "hoarder" TV shows.
> 
> On today's episode, some NOS tubes from the UK.  These MOV 6080s sound great paired with a Fivre 6SN7 and the HD650, delicate but nuanced.


The (MWT) GEC 6080/CV2984 are among my favorite power tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> The (MWT) GEC 6080/CV2984 are among my favorite power tubes.



Been listening to one in my BH amp for a couple hours now, Mordy, still Fivre 6SN7 input and having moved on to the Auteur, it is fantastic.


----------



## ewwgin

UntilThen said:


> This is in response to @ewwgin question about whether to get the GOTL or the GEL3N amp. Short answer is to get both.
> 
> Well I have not heard the GEL3N but it should be fabulous from the few feedback that I get privately of people I trust, that's the general consensus.
> 
> ...


Oh shoot, i'm so sorry UT, I only saw your response today. Thank you so much for your suggestions, I will take note of them.


----------



## gibosi

Well, it's been pretty quiet here recently...

Anyway, after a much too busy week, finally have some time to relax...

Mazda UU8 rectifier (adapter required), clear-top Chatham 5998 and Mullard ECC33.


----------



## Zachik

Looking to buy 6 x 6BX7 tubes, which do you guys recommend:
RCA, GE, or Sylvania? All supposedly NOS...


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Well, it's been pretty quiet here recently...
> 
> Anyway, after a much too busy week, finally have some time to relax...
> 
> Mazda UU8 rectifier (adapter required), clear-top Chatham 5998 and Mullard ECC33.




How does this sound....I am guessing the 5998 & ECC33 sound pretty darn good!


----------



## gibosi

Yes it does!

I think Mullard drivers sound great with 5998s.


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> Looking to buy 6 x 6BX7 tubes, which do you guys recommend:
> RCA, GE, or Sylvania? All supposedly NOS...



All of them are good. Which ones are best for you comes down to personal preference and system synergy. And in my opinion 6BX7 are cheap enough to allow you to get all three.  

That said, the GE's are very plentiful and it seems many here like them.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Yes it does!
> 
> I think Mullard drivers sound great with 5998s.




Thanks. I figured as much...I am looking to fill the ECC33 void in my collection.


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> Looking to buy 6 x 6BX7 tubes, which do you guys recommend:
> RCA, GE, or Sylvania? All supposedly NOS...





gibosi said:


> All of them are good. Which ones are best for you comes down to personal preference and system synergy. And in my opinion 6BX7 are cheap enough to allow you to get all three.
> 
> That said, the GE's are very plentiful and it seems many here like them.



Since I am not going to splurge for all 3 sextets (18 tubes) - which should I get?
Some people here wrote the 6BX7 is among their favorite - does the brand even matter for 6BX7 tubes, sonically?


----------



## gibosi

OK. And I repeat. They are all good. There is no such thing as one "best" 6BX7 for all listeners and in all systems. The best one for you comes down to your personal preference and system synergy, especially with different headphones, drivers and rectifiers  So no one here can answer this question for you. I am afraid that the only way for you to know for sure is to buy several brands and try them.

But yes, there are those who think that the brand doesn't matter. If you are lucky enough to belong to this camp, then all you have to do is buy a bunch and you are done. But obviously, I never would have suggested that you buy all three if I belonged to this camp. In my experience, tubes manufactured by different companies in different factories sound different. And this is just as true with 6BX7 as it is for any other tube.

So again, the only way for you to know is to plug them into your system and listen. And I should warn you that it can pretty messy. With 6 of them, you can mix and match brands. For example, one of UT's favorite 6BX7 complements is four Tung-Sol (relabeled Los Gatos) and two Fivre.

Again these are cheap compared to other output tubes so I encourage you to relax and have fun.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 8, 2019)

Good sir Deyan is making me some adapters ahead of my GOTL arrival.  What an absolute professional!  So responsive and helpful.

I decided I will give some of the shared cathode 6N7 tubes a go, the Visseaux 6N7GT and the Fivre 6N7G.  The Fivre 6SN7 I got from Stavros was a very pleasant surprise, love that tube in my cathode follower amp, I'm hoping for more of the same from its 6N7G cousin in the GOTL.  Will grab a Mullard ECC31 at some point I'm sure.  Am I getting ahead of myself with these tube purchases?  Yes, absolutely, but there is too much great information in this thread to ignore.  Thanks to you all for that.

This Fivre I bought from eBay.  NOS testing according to the seller, $59 USD plus international shipping.


----------



## attmci (Jun 8, 2019)

gibosi said:


> Yes it does!
> 
> I think Mullard drivers sound great with 5998s.


All driver tubes sound great with the C-top 5998/421A in my amp. No need to roll.


----------



## UntilThen

Back home for the long weekend and all I have is the Burson Audio Play with a modified HD650 but it's ok. It's still music.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> All driver tubes sound great with the C-top 5998/421A in my amp. No need to roll.



You sound like the Honda salesman I've been talking to.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> For example, one of UT's favorite 6BX7 complements is four Tung-Sol (relabeled Los Gatos) and two Fivre.



Well not by choice but more by circumstances because all I have are 3 Fivre and 4 Los Gatos 6bx7gt.... and 6 GE 6bx7gt. 

and 4 Sylvania 6BL7GT/GTA and 1 Tung Sol 6BL7GT and 1 Westinghouse 6BL7GT but I suspect they are all Sylvania. 

So the question is .... which is the best Tequila. When I have finished them all I'll let you know !


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> OK. And I repeat. They are all good. There is no such thing as one "best" 6BX7 for all listeners and in all systems. The best one for you comes down to your personal preference and system synergy, especially with different headphones, drivers and rectifiers  So no one here can answer this question for you. I am afraid that the only way for you to know for sure is to buy several brands and try them.
> 
> But yes, there are those who think that the brand doesn't matter. If you are lucky enough to belong to this camp, then all you have to do is buy a bunch and you are done. But obviously, I never would have suggested that you buy all three if I belonged to this camp. In my experience, tubes manufactured by different companies in different factories sound different. And this is just as true with 6BX7 as it is for any other tube.
> 
> ...


I agree with Joe. Moreover, it's extremely difficult to find one set of same brand/year/code 6BX7/6BL7 tubes. Most music lovers here are using mixed batches. So no way to tell the difference for most of us. 

I have a bunch of 6BL7/BX7 tubes, and this is the only one set I have.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Good sir Deyan is making me some adapters ahead of my GOTL arrival.  What an absolute professional!  So responsive and helpful.
> 
> I decided I will give some of the shared cathode 6N7 tubes a go, the Visseaux 6N7GT and the Fivre 6N7G.  The Fivre 6SN7 I got from Stavros was a very pleasant surprise, love that tube in my cathode follower amp, I'm hoping for more of the same from its 6N7G cousin in the GOTL.  Will grab a Mullard ECC31 at some point I'm sure.  Am I getting ahead of myself with these tube purchases?  Yes, absolutely, but there is too much great information in this thread to ignore.  Thanks to you all for that.
> 
> This Fivre I bought from eBay.  NOS testing according to the seller, $59 USD plus international shipping.


The Mazda/Visseaux 6N7G, Fivre 6N7G and Mullard ECC31 are some of my favorite driver tubes. Perhaps I give the slight edge to the Fivre. I seem to like most Fivre tubes: 6J5, 6C5, 12AT7, 5R4GY, 6BX7, 6SL7, etc. Currently using Fivre 12AT7 and GEC KT88's in my main amps. The Fivre/GEC combo is also a good mix in the little headphone amps. GEC tubes seem to extract as much as possible from the music, and the Fivre adds the dynamics.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Yes it does!
> 
> I think Mullard drivers sound great with 5998s.



I only have ECC31, ECC33 and ECC35 and they all sound exceptional with 5998. They also sound exceptional with sextet 6BX7 or 6BL7 or GEC 6as7g or GEC 6080 or Bendix 6080wb.


----------



## UntilThen

Waiting for me back home is the pair of Mullard EL32 in original plain vanilla military boxes from the 1940s.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> I agree with Joe. Moreover, it's extremely difficult to find one set of same brand/year/code 6BX7/6BL7 tubes. Most music lovers here are using mixed batches. So no way to tell the difference for most of us.



It just might be the case that I am one of the few here with sufficient numbers of each of the different brands of 6BX7s. I have RCA, Sylvania, Tung-Sol, GE, Toshiba and Fivre. And I can say the differences among these brands is easy to hear, even with my old and worn out ears.

That said, I do not try to buy sets of these tubes. Sets of six are almost impossible to find. Rather, I buy them one or two at a time and I buy them cheap. And as long as they are balanced and close to NOS, this purchasing strategy has worked very well for me.

My big problem is that I have only two output sockets so I have to use adapters and these adapters are somewhat fragile and finicky. As a result I now have three sets of adapters and in this way I can keep them "pre-loaded" if you will.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> The Mazda/Visseaux 6N7G, Fivre 6N7G and Mullard ECC31 are some of my favorite driver tubes. Perhaps I give the slight edge to the Fivre. I seem to like most Fivre tubes: 6J5, 6C5, 12AT7, 5R4GY, 6BX7, 6SL7, etc. Currently using Fivre 12AT7 and GEC KT88's in my main amps. The Fivre/GEC combo is also a good mix in the little headphone amps. GEC tubes seem to extract as much as possible from the music, and the Fivre adds the dynamics.



I completely agree, I find my MOV/GEC output tubes (6080 and A1834) pull detail and nuance out of the music with very little coloration and allow the driver tube to impart its own character.  With the Fivre, for me, it is a lush and smooth midrange, very musical and satisfying.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Well not by choice but more by circumstances because all I have are 3 Fivre and 4 Los Gatos 6bx7gt.... and 6 GE 6bx7gt.
> 
> and 4 Sylvania 6BL7GT/GTA and 1 Tung Sol 6BL7GT and 1 Westinghouse 6BL7GT but I suspect they are all Sylvania.
> 
> So the question is .... which is the best Tequila. When I have finished them all I'll let you know !



Corralejo Reposado is the best Tequila.
Smooth you don't need salt or lime just down shot after shot dangerous.
Love it !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I completely agree, I find my MOV/GEC output tubes (6080 and A1834) pull detail and nuance out of the music with very little coloration and allow the driver tube to impart its own character.  With the Fivre, for me, it is a lush and smooth midrange, very musical and satisfying.



I use two GEC A1834/6AS7 and two GEC L63 in my amp. The GEC B36 is probably the same as two GEC L63s.
My amp is a little different and old.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Corralejo Reposado is the best Tequila.
> Smooth you don't need salt or lime just down shot after shot dangerous.
> Love it !!!!!!!!!!



Ummm you know your Tequilas.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> I use two GEC A1834/6AS7 and two GEC L63 in my amp. The GEC B36 is probably the same as two GEC L63s.
> My amp is a little different and old.



That's a beautiful amp, wood panel is nice match for ZMF headphones, must sound great with the all GEC loadout.  Compared to the B65, seems like the 2x L63 are a bargain.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Ummm you know your Tequilas.



My drink of choice. A couple of shots and you are buzzing.
Love it.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> That's a beautiful amp, wood panel is nice match for ZMF headphones, must sound great with the all GEC loadout.  Compared to the B65, seems like the 2x L63 are a bargain.



Use a B36 same tube just 12 volts and much cheaper.
You will need a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter to use the L63s
My amp is made for them.
Originally my amp used two #27 tubes for drivers but hard to find ones that are not noisy.  Actually I think the 27s sounded better.


----------



## UntilThen

Remember to get your octal socket savers. 7 of them. One for the 6SN7 socket.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-...5Z3P-6SN7GT-/191109289479?hash=item2c7f005607


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Ummm you know your Tequilas.



I would have to lie to the post to send you a bottle. USPS has a problem with sending flammable liquids. Don't know what customs in AU would do.
Done that before sent some to a friend in New York were he can't get it.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Don't know what customs in AU would do.



They will drink it. 

Is this it? I have to get a bottle. Blue right?


----------



## 2359glenn (Jun 8, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> They will drink it.
> 
> Is this it? I have to get a bottle. Blue right?



That is it the blue one. Can you get i in AU?
You won't regret buying it!


----------



## 2359glenn

Hay Matt it is page 1800 if that isn't funny.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> It just might be the case that I am one of the few here with sufficient numbers of each of the different brands of 6BX7s. I have RCA, Sylvania, Tung-Sol, GE, Toshiba and Fivre. And I can say the differences among these brands is easy to hear, even with my old and worn out ears.
> 
> That said, I do not try to buy sets of these tubes. Sets of six are almost impossible to find. Rather, I buy them one or two at a time and I buy them cheap. And as long as they are balanced and close to NOS, this purchasing strategy has worked very well for me.
> 
> My big problem is that I have only two output sockets so I have to use adapters and these adapters are somewhat fragile and finicky. As a result I now have three sets of adapters and in this way I can keep them "pre-loaded" if you will.




Now you are used to Joe. LOL


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> Currently using Fivre 12AT7 and GEC KT88's in my main amps.


Can I use KT88 tubes with GOTL?!  If so - adapter needed?  (want to update my compatibility table...)



gibosi said:


> I have RCA, Sylvania, Tung-Sol, GE, Toshiba and Fivre. And I can say the differences among these brands is easy to hear, even with my old and worn out ears.


That is exactly what I was asking earlier - what differences in sound does your (old and worn out) ears can easily hear?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Hay Matt it is page 1800 if that isn't funny.



What’s so funny about page 1800?


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Can I use KT88 tubes with GOTL?!  If so - adapter needed?  (want to update my compatibility table...)



Do not... I repeat DO NOT use KT88 in the GOTL. It will be more lethal than 10 shots of Tequila.


----------



## leftside

Zachik said:


> Can I use KT88 tubes with GOTL?!  If so - adapter needed?  (want to update my compatibility table...)


Absolutely not


----------



## Zachik (Jun 9, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Do not... I repeat DO NOT use KT88 in the GOTL. It will be more lethal than 10 shots of Tequila.


OK - I guess the context of the post I quoted was lost on me. Will add the KT88 to the no-no section of the compatibility table 

Edit: added to my table, and gave UntilThen the clever quote


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 9, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> My drink of choice. A couple of shots and you are buzzing.
> Love it.




Ha!
I used to keep a bottle of Patron silver in the house....but I have not had any in quite some time...I like it though.

Have become more of a dark beer guy these days....Coffee lover to so try to keep Kahlua in the house at all times.

Maybe I should try this


----------



## Zachik

Question regarding unbalanced 6AS7 tubes:
I got 2 tubes that test similarly around 2000/2800...
I am guessing these have been used on an amp that used the 1st triode on each, but did not use the 2nd triode. That would explain 1 triode being somewhat worn out and the other being NOS.

So... if I use them in the GOTL - does the amp use 1 triode or both triodes?!  
If the answer is using 1 triode - would it use same triode in both sides tubes if use as a pair?
and if using both triodes - what is the (sonic) effect of these unbalanced tubes being used?


----------



## 2359glenn

The amp uses both triodes.
I think something is wrong with those tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> OK - I guess the context of the post I quoted was lost on me. Will add the KT88 to the no-no section of the compatibility table
> 
> Edit: added to my table, and gave UntilThen the clever quote



If you're going to compile my quotes, it could turn into a best seller book. 

This is what I said about cheap farmers tubes:-

At the cheap end of the market, the tubes sound coarse, unrefined but hey if you're going to listen to Johnny Lee Hooker, whose voice is harden from years of whisky and cigars, why do you need a refined sounding tube? Likewise if you're going to watch Youtube 90% of the time, why would you complain about farmers tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

This is my review of EL3N and 5998 from a long time ago.... free of Tequila or any alcohol. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/6000#post_12235306


----------



## 2359glenn

I love te sound of the EL3N and GEC 6AS7 with my ZMF Auteur not so much with the ZMF Verite then I use L63 drivers.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> I love te sound of the EL3N and GEC 6AS7 with my ZMF Auteur not so much with the ZMF Verite then I use L63 drivers.



What is your current fav roll for the Verite? What pads do you prefer?


----------



## heliosphann

Rumor is there's an amp burning in with my name on it!


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> The amp uses both triodes.
> I think something is wrong with those tubes.


I thought it was suspicious, and being new with testing tubes - I tested a 6SN7 I had around... both its triodes test almost the same value, so I do not think I was doing anything wrong!
All I can think of to explain these measurements: these were used on an amp that uses 1 triode, and therefore wearing out only that triode.
Glenn - any downside of giving these tubes a try in the amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Rumor is there's an amp burning in with my name on it!



Will be burning in when I get home from work.
Will see what headphone I will be using maybe Verite?


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 10, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> If you're going to compile my quotes, it could turn into a best seller book.
> 
> This is what I said about cheap farmers tubes:-
> 
> At the cheap end of the market, the tubes sound coarse, unrefined but hey if you're going to listen to Johnny Lee Hooker, whose voice is harden from years of whisky and cigars, why do you need a refined sounding tube? Likewise if you're going to watch Youtube 90% of the time, why would you complain about farmers tubes?




Wait!  You mean John Lee Hooker drank whisky, smoked cigars, and lounged around the pool all day!  Say it ain't so.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Is the burn-in period where the amp builder gets to enjoy the fruits of his labor?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

heliosphann said:


> Rumor is there's an amp burning in with my name on it!



Great, @2359glenn will be one step closer to my amp build


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Is the burn-in period where the amp builder gets to enjoy the fruits of his labor?



Something like that.
But I do have my own amp and know what they sound like.


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Rumor is there's an amp burning in with my name on it!




Yea it is burning in.
This amp is exceptionally quiet total black background.
Maybe I stuck in a good bunch of tubes.
The first 13D1 was noisy so I changed it out this one is great sounds wonderful driving my Verite.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 10, 2019)

Are you using those "Winged C" 6H13C output tubes, Glenn?

@heliosphann what tubes are you running out of the gate?  I need to live vicariously through you.


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> Are you using those "Winged C" 6H13C output tubes, Glenn?
> 
> @heliosphann what tubes are you running out of the gate?  I need to vicariously through you.



Hmmm. After I run the stock tubes Glenn is supplying me with, I'll probably throw in a 422A, ecc35 and GEC 6080's first. I've got quite a few power tubes to try including 5998's, 6336's, several other 6080's and a set of x6 6BX7's and 6BXL's. As far as drivers I've got several really good V-231's, a 126SL7 bgrp, 12SN7 mouse ears, a few other various tube and multiple sets of c3g's. 

Also got a line on a pair of GEC 6A7G's and U52. Hopefully it pans out.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> Hmmm. After I run the stock tubes Glenn is supplying me with, I'll probably throw in a 422A, ecc35 and GEC 6080's first. I've got quite a few power tubes to try including 5998's, 6336's, several other 6080's and a set of x6 6BX7's and 6BXL's. As far as drivers I've got several really good V-231's, a 126SL7 bgrp, 12SN7 mouse ears, a few other various tube and multiple sets of c3g's.
> 
> Also got a line on a pair of GEC 6A7G's and U52. Hopefully it pans out.



That is a great lineup, starting strong with a 422A ready to go. I have a very similar stockpile in waiting, although I have a pair of 6528As instead of 6336Bs, and a few different makes of 6BX7.

I hope you'll post pics when it arrives, good luck with the GEC 6AS7G


----------



## mordy

Hi L0rdGwyn,
There is a seller in Malta who keeps selling the ECC31 one by one, often at reasonable prices as these tubes go. (You may also be able to get a better price by looking for NR73, CV1285 or 10E/453 which all are the exact same tube with different designations.)
Here is a recent sale:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NR73-ECC31...390989?hash=item3fc30da50d:g:FaoAAOSwkcxc4lE5
Perhaps by contacting him you can find out if he has more for sale.

Re the 6528A tube I only have one, but the multiplication is 9 compared to the 2 for the the very similar 6336B, so the 6528 plays significantly louder. (Maybe a possibility that this will introduce more noise if the driver tubes are on the noisy side, but I am not really sure if this is true or matters.)


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Are you using those "Winged C" 6H13C output tubes, Glenn?
> 
> @heliosphann what tubes are you running out of the gate?  I need to live vicariously through you.



Yes Svetlana 6H13 outputs 13D1/25SN7 driver quiet and sounds good.
Sounds better with GEC 6AS7s out of my amp.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jun 11, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Hmmm. After I run the stock tubes Glenn is supplying me with, I'll probably throw in a 422A, ecc35 and GEC 6080's first. I've got quite a few power tubes to try including 5998's, 6336's, several other 6080's and a set of x6 6BX7's and 6BXL's. As far as drivers I've got several really good V-231's, a 126SL7 bgrp, 12SN7 mouse ears, a few other various tube and multiple sets of c3g's.
> 
> Also got a line on a pair of GEC 6A7G's and U52. Hopefully it pans out.



Sounds good great tubes.
The 13D1 is a pretty good driver.
You really should get a adapter for the WE422A to reverse pins 2 & 8 will be quieter that way.
With the adapter the 422A is the best rectifier!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> Hmmm. After I run the stock tubes Glenn is supplying me with, I'll probably throw in a 422A, ecc35 and GEC 6080's first. I've got quite a few power tubes to try including 5998's, 6336's, several other 6080's and a set of x6 6BX7's and 6BXL's. As far as drivers I've got several really good V-231's, a 126SL7 bgrp, 12SN7 mouse ears, a few other various tube and multiple sets of c3g's.
> 
> 
> Very nice stash of tubes you have.
> ...





mordy said:


> Hi L0rdGwyn,
> There is a seller in Malta who keeps selling the ECC31 one by one, often at reasonable prices as these tubes go. (You may also be able to get a better price by looking for NR73, CV1285 or 10E/453 which all are the exact same tube with different designations.)
> Here is a recent sale:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NR73-ECC31...390989?hash=item3fc30da50d:g:FaoAAOSwkcxc4lE5
> ...




Great advice, for the price that you can at times get on the ECC31 it is a must.  This tube holds it's own with the very very best of driver tubes IMHO.......YMMV


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 11, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi L0rdGwyn,
> There is a seller in Malta who keeps selling the ECC31 one by one, often at reasonable prices as these tubes go. (You may also be able to get a better price by looking for NR73, CV1285 or 10E/453 which all are the exact same tube with different designations.)
> Here is a recent sale:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NR73-ECC31...390989?hash=item3fc30da50d:g:FaoAAOSwkcxc4lE5
> ...



Thanks for the tips, Mordy.  I reached out to the seller, will keep you posted on ECC31 availability.  Like I said, I have the Fivre 6N7G and Visseaux 6N7GT on order at the moment.

What is the GOTL thread consensus (if there is one) on the 6N7G vs 6SN7GT?  Say, for instance, I had the opportunity to purchase a very reasonably priced pair of Fivre 6N7GT (straight bottle, brown base), do they compare directly with the 6N7G, or do those shoulder type tubes have some audio magic inside them?

Also, on the 6528A, my thought was I would mostly be using them to drive low-Z phones, so the higher gm might be useful, despite the higher mu.  I'll probably pick up a pair of Cetron 6336B too, I am a tube roller at heart, why should one have to choose?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 11, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Great advice, for the price that you can at times get on the ECC31 it is a must.  This tube holds it's own with the very very best of driver tubes IMHO.......YMMV



Joe, what are your thoughts on the ECC31 vs 32/33/35?

BTW, if you ever find yourself in Troy, OH, Winans coffee is just incredible, some of the best I have had in the state!  Enjoying a cup or ten right now ☕


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> Question regarding unbalanced 6AS7 tubes:
> I got 2 tubes that test similarly around 2000/2800...
> I am guessing these have been used on an amp that used the 1st triode on each, but did not use the 2nd triode. That would explain 1 triode being somewhat worn out and the other being NOS.
> 
> ...





2359glenn said:


> The amp uses both triodes.
> I think something is wrong with those tubes.



Trying to learn something here... @2359glenn - when an amp uses 2 triodes for 1 channel, does it "average" the triodes?  What is the high-level concept or architecture?
I am assuming no risk of damaging anything by using these unbalanced (between the 2 triodes) tubes. Right?  Worst case, would sound bad?


----------



## gibosi

Glenn stacks the two half's into a "totem pole" (I think that is the term Glenn used). Essentially the two half's are connected in series, one feeding the other, each getting 1/2 the voltage.

I strongly doubt that it would hurt anything to use these unbalanced tubes, but obviously, it would be better if the two half's were a bit more equal.


----------



## Phantaminum

Yesterday had a long session after work with the Mullard ECC35 and TS 5998. Once these two are fully warmed up they sound fantastic with the Verite. Wide open space, great detail, layered, serious depth, imaging, and lovely tonality. I'm going to leave these in for a while.


----------



## heliosphann

Phantaminum said:


> Yesterday had a long session after work with the Mullard ECC35 and TS 5998. Once these two are fully warmed up they sound fantastic with the Verite. Wide open space, great detail, layered, serious depth, imaging, and lovely tonality. I'm going to leave these in for a while.



Nice. I'll definitely be trying that combo with the Verite.


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Trying to learn something here... @2359glenn - when an amp uses 2 triodes for 1 channel, does it "average" the triodes?  What is the high-level concept or architecture?
> I am assuming no risk of damaging anything by using these unbalanced (between the 2 triodes) tubes. Right?  Worst case, would sound bad?



It will be alright no problem using them
Wouldn't pay much for them though maybe if they are free.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> It will be alright no problem using them
> Wouldn't pay much for them though maybe if they are free.


Got them at a local electronics-flea-market... untested... 
I paid $2 / each, fully expecting the tubes to be unusable, so I guess I paid a fair price for very mediocre but usable tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Got them at a local electronics-flea-market... untested...
> I paid $2 / each, fully expecting the tubes to be unusable, so I guess I paid a fair price for very mediocre but usable tubes



I would test them with a cheep pair of phones first for a couple of hrs.
So if they pop and arc over they won't damage expensive phones.


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 11, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Joe, what are your thoughts on the ECC31 vs 32/33/35?
> 
> BTW, if you ever find yourself in Troy, OH, Winans coffee is just incredible, some of the best I have had in the state!  Enjoying a cup or ten right now ☕




The ECC31 & ECC32 sound very much alike ...The ECC 35 is actually a 6SL7 as it has much more gain than 31,32. and it will seem more powerful because of that, probably has a chance to have more noise also. Many say it is the best of the 6SL7 tubes, but I can not confirm that, but I do not doubt it either, it sounds wonderful......none of these tubes actually are 6SN7 so not so sure why they all sound so good, but they most certainly do.

I do not own an ECC33 yet, but I am working on that. I would love to hear these tubes at all of their proper plate voltages....but the ones I have tried all sound killer in Glenn's OTL

If I like the ECC33 as much as I do the ECC31,32,35 then all will be good. My guess is that these are all going to sound somewhat similar...Mullard house sound is wonderful and if these were all the drivers I had I would be very happy and I am a huge fan of the Tung Sol BGRP. 

Much like the Tung Sol BGRP the ECC31,32,35 have no real weakness, nice across the spectrum....I am guessing the ECC33 will be more of the same, I have read it may have less bass presence than the others but I will not know that until I have one to try.

A few here have all of these tubes and can probably give much more input.

Winans coffee, I will keep that in mind....is it exclusive to Troy, Ohio ?


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> I would test them with a cheep pair of phones first for a couple of hrs.
> So if they pop and arc over they won't damage expensive phones.


I can definitely test with cheap cans, but a little surprised there is such danger... granted, I am relatively new (1-2 years) to tubes...


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> I can definitely test with cheap cans, but a little surprised there is such danger... granted, I am relatively new (1-2 years) to tubes...



It's a good habit to to have. These tubes are 65+ years old and you just never know what could cause a nasty pop. That's all it took for me to lose one driver on my Verite. 

You may even have a good tube and forget to change volts. I lost a National Union that way as I had it set to 12v instead of 6v and had a nasty pop as the tube went. I usually leave it running for 5 - 10 minutes before I plug anything in and then if it sounds fine I switch out to the more expensive headphone.


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> It's a good habit to to have. These tubes are 65+ years old and you just never know what could cause a nasty pop. That's all it took for me to lose one driver on my Verite.
> 
> You may even have a good tube and forget to change volts. I lost a National Union that way as I had it set to 12v instead of 6v and had a nasty pop as the tube went. I usually leave it running for 5 - 10 minutes before I plug anything in and then if it sounds fine I switch out to the more expensive headphone.


I thought the danger was in case of a short (although I guess when Glenn mentions arc, it is caused by a short?)...
I was already waiting for amp to run for 5-10 minutes before plugging ANYTHING to it, but I guess I will add another step to my "process" and try el-cheapo headphones (HD201) first


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> I thought the danger was in case of a short (although I guess when Glenn mentions arc, it is caused by a short?)...
> I was already waiting for amp to run for 5-10 minutes before plugging ANYTHING to it, but I guess I will add another step to my "process" and try el-cheapo headphones (HD201) first



Had a 6SN7 smoked tube Brimar that sounded fantastic and cost me a nice penny. Popped it in one day, turned the amp on and waited 10 minutes. Came back, plugged in the HD650s and I just hear this noise that sounded like a subwoofer in constant excursion. Sylvania 6SN7W which was working fine before as well had some nasty crackle after start up. Fixed the 6SN7W but the Brimar had to be tossed.

Now it’s almost like a Houston Space Center checklist when turning on the amp. Tube visual inspection? Check! Volt selector at correct voltage? Check! Launch com, give me a 10 minute count down.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 11, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> The ECC31 & ECC32 sound very much alike ...The ECC 35 is actually a 6SL7 as it has much more gain than 31,32. and it will seem more powerful because of that, probably has a chance to have more noise also. Many say it is the best of the 6SL7 tubes, but I can not confirm that, but I do not doubt it either, it sounds wonderful......none of these tubes actually are 6SN7 so not so sure why they all sound so good, but they most certainly do.
> 
> I do not own an ECC33 yet, but I am working on that. I would love to hear these tubes at all of their proper plate voltages....but the ones I have tried all sound killer in Glenn's OTL
> 
> ...



Fantastic, that's very helpful.  I'm also a fan of the Tung Sol BGRP, I will have to give one of these a try, most likely the ECC31 as it seems to be the most reasonably priced, I already have the adapter in the works from Deyan.

Unfortunately, the seller @mordy linked is fresh out of ECC31, so I'll be on the lookout.

I think Winans was founded in the Troy/Piqua area, but has since expanded outward.  They have a couple locations in downtown Columbus and one in Dublin, probably the closest ones to you.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> It's a good habit to to have. These tubes are 65+ years old and you just never know what could cause a nasty pop. That's all it took for me to lose one driver on my Verite.
> 
> You may even have a good tube and forget to change volts. I lost a National Union that way as I had it set to 12v instead of 6v and had a nasty pop as the tube went. I usually leave it running for 5 - 10 minutes before I plug anything in and then if it sounds fine I switch out to the more expensive headphone.



I have a pair of Sennheiser PX100 that have been relegated to tube testing duty.  How far they have fallen.

Decided to start testing with cheap phones after I purchased a NOS/NIB late 50's Western Electric 421A with grey plates, in pristine condition visually.  Problem is, it arcs like CRAZY on startup, a free fireworks display every time.  After that it sounds fantastic, but too risky to use for me.

The seller refunded me, I just haven't been able to throw it out for some reason, it breaks my heart.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 11, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Volt selector at correct voltage?



LOL,I triple check that thing...totally


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have a pair of Sennheiser PX100 that have been relegated to tube testing duty.  How far they have fallen.
> 
> Decided to start testing with cheap phones after I purchased a NOS/NIB late 50's Western Electric 421A with grey plates, in pristine condition visually.  Problem is, it arcs like CRAZY on startup, a free fireworks display every time.  After that it sounds fantastic, but too risky to use for me.
> 
> The seller refunded me, I just haven't been able to throw it out for some reason, it breaks my heart.


That is the problem with those 60-70+ year old tubes. Just like people - they develop all kinda "symptoms" and/or die with no warning


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 12, 2019)

I always find myself double checking the voltage selector also....it is a great habit to get into, if your power light does not come on...you know you screwed up as it will not come on if the wrong voltage is selected.

Thanks to Glenn for this as he is trying to make it "idiot proof" for us all


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I always find myself double checking the voltage selector also....it is a great habit to get into, if your power light does not come on...you know you screwed up as it will not come on if the wrong voltage is selected.
> 
> Thanks to Glenn for this as he is trying to make it "idiot proof" for us all



And myself I have left it on the wrong voltage


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hypothetical question for you all.  Since there are so many options for the GOTL, I'm curious what people think the most important tube in their collection is for listening enjoyment
> 
> If you could only keep one specific tube in your GOTL permanently (driver, power, or rectifier), but could keep rolling any of the others, what would it be and why?
> 
> For example, maybe you think the Sylvania 6BX7GT is the best sounding tube you roll and is a mainstay of your GOTL setup, so you would rather keep six of them in the amp for the rest of time and keep rolling drivers and rectifiers.



I think this has to be my Cossor 53ku.  The jump it gives my amp is like going from an hd600 to an hd800 in regards to separation and tightness. Everything “locks in” and there is more breathing room. I pair it with the ECC31 and it’s game over. (ECC31 would be my other pick btw). This combo is pretty vicious for impact and bass when it comes to the GOTL.


----------



## carlman14

Speaking of tubes arcing and popping, has anyone had a tube do this while having headphones on their head? I've had 2 6080's do that to me on my bottlehead crack, once with hd-6xx's on my head, and man that was loud. I'm pretty sure it messed up my right eardrum cause I kept hearing pops and crackling in my right ear every time I yawned. Finally 5 months later my ear is pretty much back to normal, but now there's a certain fear every time I use my headphones on my crack.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> I think this has to be my Cossor 53ku.  The jump it gives my amp is like going from an hd600 to an hd800 in regards to separation and tightness. Everything “locks in” and there is more breathing room. I pair it with the ECC31 and it’s game over. (ECC31 would be my other pick btw). This combo is pretty vicious for impact and bass when it comes to the GOTL.



Nice! I wondered if someone would choose a rectifier.  The ECC31 is at the top of my wish list right now, seems to be wildly popular with just about everyone who has heard it, and it isn't too expensive as far as top driver tubes go.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

carlman14 said:


> Speaking of tubes arcing and popping, has anyone had a tube do this while having headphones on their head? I've had 2 6080's do that to me on my bottlehead crack, once with hd-6xx's on my head, and man that was loud. I'm pretty sure it messed up my right eardrum cause I kept hearing pops and crackling in my right ear every time I yawned. Finally 5 months later my ear is pretty much back to normal, but now there's a certain fear every time I use my headphones on my crack.



It has happened to me, although not bad enough to cause any long term damage, some others like yourself have been less fortunate, damaged headphones as well. A good practice is to let the amp warm up 5-10 min before plugging in phones and listening, may want to avoid the culprit tube as well as it can still happen after warm up.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> It has happened to me, although not bad enough to cause any long term damage, some others like yourself have been less fortunate, damaged headphones as well. A good practice is to let the amp warm up 5-10 min before plugging in phones and listening, may want to avoid the culprit tube as well as it can still happen after warm up.


I had the same experience as well - not bad enough to damage hearing, but bad enough to blow one driver.
Good advice to wait a few minutes, and as had been said before, always start with cheap sacrificial headphones trying new things.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> The ECC31 is at the top of my wish list right now, seems to be wildly popular with just about everyone who has heard it, and it isn't too expensive as far as top driver tubes go.



Never heard one either. Is there a major difference in sound between it and a ECC35?


----------



## carlman14

L0rdGwyn said:


> It has happened to me, although not bad enough to cause any long term damage, some others like yourself have been less fortunate, damaged headphones as well. A good practice is to let the amp warm up 5-10 min before plugging in phones and listening, may want to avoid the culprit tube as well as it can still happen after warm up.



Yep, the second time it happened, it murdered my Atticus, though they weren't on my head (thank God). Luckily I am the original owner of those, so it was a free replacement. I am pretty new to tubes, the crack being my first tube amp. So I am finding out that I am pretty ignorant to best practices when it comes to tubes. This last page of this forum has helped me out a lot. If it can happen after warm up, are all tubes basically just Russian roulette with your headphones and/or hearing?


----------



## Monsterzero

carlman14 said:


> Luckily I am the original owner of those, so it was a free replacement.



ZMF's customer service is a blessing. One of the many reasons Im a fanboy.


----------



## mordy

carlman14 said:


> Yep, the second time it happened, it murdered my Atticus, though they weren't on my head (thank God). Luckily I am the original owner of those, so it was a free replacement. I am pretty new to tubes, the crack being my first tube amp. So I am finding out that I am pretty ignorant to best practices when it comes to tubes. This last page of this forum has helped me out a lot. If it can happen after warm up, are all tubes basically just Russian roulette with your headphones and/or hearing?


The absolute majority of approved tubes for your amp tubes are totally safe to use. There are a few tubes that are more temperamental (such as the 5998) and sometimes there is an incompatibility between tubes, resulting in pops and crackles.
Some of the 70 year plus tubes may need a reheating (resoldering) of the tube pins if they make loud noises (6SN7W) to function properly. 
Problems do happen, but they are rare.


----------



## carlman14

mordy said:


> The absolute majority of approved tubes for your amp tubes are totally safe to use. There are a few tubes that are more temperamental (such as the 5998) and sometimes there is an incompatibility between tubes, resulting in pops and crackles.
> Some of the 70 year plus tubes may need a reheating (resoldering) of the tube pins if they make loud noises (6SN7W) to function properly.
> Problems do happen, but they are rare.



That's great info, thanks! I seem to be a problem magnet, so I'll definitely avoid the 5998. I've loved my bottlehead crack so much that I decided to go big and I put a deposit down on a GOTL. I'm super pumped about it, and I'm just trying to gain as much tube knowledge as I can so things go smoothly when I get it


----------



## mordy

carlman14 said:


> That's great info, thanks! I seem to be a problem magnet, so I'll definitely avoid the 5998. I've loved my bottlehead crack so much that I decided to go big and I put a deposit down on a GOTL. I'm super pumped about it, and I'm just trying to gain as much tube knowledge as I can so things go smoothly when I get it


The best source for information is this thread. Just start reading (and maybe take notes....)


----------



## carlman14

mordy said:


> The best source for information is this thread. Just start reading (and maybe take notes....)



I've already started doing that! I have 1804 pages of glenn literature to keep me busy while I'm waiting for my amp to get built.


----------



## mordy (Jun 12, 2019)

Have been rolling front driver tubes - most everything sounds good. 6SN7W and 7N7 today. Now I put in one of my favorites, an unsung hero: The RCA 12SX7GT.
I am thinking: What separates one great sounding tube from another? They are all a little different.
I am reaching into my subconscious. This tube has soul; it grabs your senses.
How do I know that? When putting on my analytical hat I can't find anything wrong; can't point to anything specific this or that.
So how do I know that this tube has soul?
Involuntary toe tapping - I am sitting here and smiling and tapping my toes to the music, without thinking about it.
Don't know how the 12SX7 reacts to different output tubes except for the combination I am using, but with the extra drivers of EL8 and 4x6080 Bendix/RCA it is very special, just exuding happiness.
Here is a link if somebody is interested:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-RCA-1...422530?hash=item2395f08242:g:FTYAAOSwt6ZWVJkJ
From what I understand the 12SX7 is just a military 12SN7 and it plugs right in on the 12V setting. The ones I have are from 1943.


----------



## whirlwind

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> I think this has to be my Cossor 53ku.  The jump it gives my amp is like going from an hd600 to an hd800 in regards to separation and tightness. Everything “locks in” and there is more breathing room. I pair it with the ECC31 and it’s game over. (ECC31 would be my other pick btw). This combo is pretty vicious for impact and bass when it comes to the GOTL.




Hey BNC....is your Cossor 53KU the fat bottle or skinny bottle ?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Hey! Guessing this is the fat bottle?


----------



## whirlwind

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> Hey! Guessing this is the fat bottle?



Yes it is....thank you.


----------



## Zachik

carlman14 said:


> Yep, the second time it happened, it murdered my Atticus, though they weren't on my head (thank God). Luckily I am the original owner of those, so it was a free replacement. I am pretty new to tubes, the crack being my first tube amp. So I am finding out that I am pretty ignorant to best practices when it comes to tubes. This last page of this forum has helped me out a lot. If it can happen after warm up, are all tubes basically just Russian roulette with your headphones and/or hearing?


Would waiting for 5-10 minutes before plugging good headphones have helped in your case?  
I mean, in the 2 times that happened to you - did both happen in the first 10 minutes from powering-up the amp?


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Here is a link if somebody is interested:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-RCA-1...422530?hash=item2395f08242:g:FTYAAOSwt6ZWVJkJ


Mordy - have you actually bought form this seller in Taiwan?  or is this link just for reference for 12SX7 tube?


----------



## carlman14

Zachik said:


> Would waiting for 5-10 minutes before plugging good headphones have helped in your case?
> I mean, in the 2 times that happened to you - did both happen in the first 10 minutes from powering-up the amp?



The first time it happened I don't recall, as it was 5-6 months ago. But the second time it happened, the tube (different tube than the first time) ran just fine the night I got it. The next morning I turned on the amp and it definitely arced within the first 5 minutes. Since then I've turned the amp on several more times with that tube (without headphones plugged in) and just let it run for a few hours each time. So far it hasn't arced again.


----------



## carlman14

Also because this is a bottlehead product, it's entirely likely that this is my fault as well. I've been re-soldering and checking all of the joints just to be sure the problem isn't just some shoddy soldering.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Mordy - have you actually bought form this seller in Taiwan?  or is this link just for reference for 12SX7 tube?


Hi Zachik,
I did not buy from this seller - got my tubes from another Headfier, but these tubes look similar to what I have and the price is reasonable.
Just checked this seller's feedback. There are a few negatives and neutrals (very few considering the volume) but basically relating to electronic components and not tubes (with one exception but a different tube).
Did some research on the 12SX7 tube. It is very close to a 12SN7 but it has a twisted filament for lower hum. It was made for use in direction finders in aircraft and it appears that the tubes were pretested and only released with both sides testing very close. This tube was designed for audio use.
Re pretesting I can only tell of my own impressions - the tube really opened up after some 60 hours of burn in.
Somehow this tube seems really well suited for the GOTL.


----------



## 2359glenn

Usually it happens in the first 10 minutes as it is worming up and the elements are expanding.
I did have a 5998 blow my headphones after it was on for hours. and other people had this problem with the 5998 too.
I will not use this tube no matter how good it supposedly sounds not worth it blowing $2000 headphones.


----------



## Wes S

Man!  You guys just killed my buzz!  I have a BHC, coming today, and have a pair of 5998's, ready to go, one is for backup.  However, now I am scared to use them!  Looks like I will be looking for some 6AS7G's.  So much good info, in this thread, as I learn more about the GOTL.  Thanks guys!


----------



## OctavianH

Any particular reason why the 5998 behaves in this way? I have a pair on my amp now and I am not very happy to see that they might create problems. I've just sent my T1 for repair in warranty since the left driver stopped working. Now I start to think if these 5998 had something to do or not with the problem.


----------



## attmci (Jun 13, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Usually it happens in the first 10 minutes as it is worming up and the elements are expanding.
> I did have a 5998 blow my headphones after it was on for hours. and other people had this problem with the 5998 too.
> I will not use this tube no matter how good it supposedly sounds not worth it blowing $2000 headphones.


I had been using my ctop 5998 everyday for over a year without any issue.

Any bad tubes will kill your headphone drivers, but do you want to go SS?

ttfn.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 13, 2019)

attmci said:


> I had been using my ctop 5998 everyday for over a year without any issue.
> 
> Any bad tubes will kill your headphone drivers, but do you want to go SS?
> 
> ttfn.


Nice to hear about, a 5998 success story.


----------



## mordy

Welcome to 2019 - it looks like you now have to pay a 10% tax on tubes and electronics from China.
First time for me to pay tax on vacuum tubes.
But it could be worse - I think some European countries have a 25% import tax.


----------



## SonicTrance

mordy said:


> Welcome to 2019 - it looks like you now have to pay a 10% tax on tubes and electronics from China.
> First time for me to pay tax on vacuum tubes.
> But it could be worse - I think some European countries have a 25% import tax.


Yes we do! 25% + handling fee!


----------



## OctavianH

Last time I ordered from US I paid 19% VAT + customs tax + some standard tax related to some overseas shipping.
The last one can be ignored, it is very small, but 19% VAT and customs, which are both based on the value, might add somewhere around 25% both to the value.
And the same from China/Hong Kong. Yep, not fun to live in Europe and buy stuff from other areas


----------



## mordy

SonicTrance said:


> Yes we do! 25% + handling fee!


Det ar forskrackligt!


----------



## SonicTrance

mordy said:


> Det ar forskrackligt!


Verkligen


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Welcome to 2019 - it looks like you now have to pay a 10% tax on tubes and electronics from China.
> First time for me to pay tax on vacuum tubes.
> But it could be worse - I think some European countries have a 25% import tax.



I bought some tube sockets from China a few weeks ago and no tax.
Tube sockets is the only thing I buy from China. Can't afford American ones can get Amphenol sockets for $24 each would have to up
the price of the amp to use these. Especially in a amp that uses 8 of them


----------



## mordy (Jun 13, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> I bought some tube sockets from China a few weeks ago and no tax.
> Tube sockets is the only thing I buy from China. Can't afford American ones can get Amphenol sockets for $24 each would have to up
> the price of the amp to use these. Especially in a amp that uses 8 of them


I believe that these tariffs just went into effect and are being billed by eBay. Just tried this listing to see:
Request total





*MagiDeal GZC8-Y-6 Ceramic 8pin PCB Mounting Tube Socket for KT88/6550/EL34*
QtyQuantity
$2.91
Economy Shipping from outside US
12-41 days12 to 41 days
Free shipping


Item (1) $2.91
Shipping Free
Estimated tax $0.24


Total $3.15

The tax appears to be approximately 10%


----------



## leftside

With the price of postage, custom fees, brokerage fees, trade wars, eBay global shipping program, etc, we'll soon only be buying from the country we live in. Germany has cheap shipping prices, and the UK isn't too bad either. I usually try and buy from those two countries. There are ways to avoid some of these fees though. The Chinese are usually great about marking the package with a low value - they just want to make a deal.

The US is such a large market with 350 million people that you can usually find a US seller/buyer and not have to worry too much about any of these fees. And shipping is cheap within the US. I've often thought of moving further down the coast...


----------



## mordy

I found that some German sellers insist on using DHL instead of the German Post Office, even though German Post is half or less of the shipping cost compared to DHL. Never had any problem with Deutsche Post even though some sellers claimed that I would receive damaged goods by using them.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 13, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Man!  You guys just killed my buzz!  I have a BHC, coming today, and have a pair of 5998's, ready to go, one is for backup.  However, now I am scared to use them!  Looks like I will be looking for some 6AS7G's.  So much good info, in this thread, as I learn more about the GOTL.  Thanks guys!



Awhile back I also had fears about using 5998s after hearing horror stories. Several members responded that theyve never had any issues with them,so I gave them a try.
Its only been a short while since I received my pair from Stravros (thanks Wes for the reminder) and,knock on wood,no issues.
They sound really nice in the GOTL!

I do allow my amp to warm up at least 30-45 mins before listening,and I do have a sacrificial set of headphones to test too. That applies to all tubes,not just 5998s.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> I found that some German sellers insist on using DHL instead of the German Post Office, even though German Post is half or less of the shipping cost compared to DHL. Never had any problem with Deutsche Post even though some sellers claimed that I would receive damaged goods by using them.


Yeah German Post is great. Those sellers are just covering their asses and making you pay for that privilege. I typically tell the sellers "I'll take responsibility for the package". DHL is too much - especially here in Canada. Brokerage fees, etc. UPS are also to be avoided like the plague. I've bought (and sold a large record collection) literally thousands of packages over the internet the last 10 - 15 years, and I can probably count on one hand any problems I've had. The risk/reward factor tells me to almost always go for the cheapest airmail service available.


----------



## Wes S

Monsterzero said:


> Awhile back I also had fears about using 5998s after hearing horror stories. Several members responded that theyve never had any issues with them,so I gave them a try.
> Its only been a short while since I received my pair from Stravros (thanks Wes for the reminder) and,knock on wood,no issues.
> They sound really nice in the GOTL!
> 
> I do allow my amp to warm up at least 30-45 mins before listening,and I do have a sacrificial set of headphones to test too. That applies to all tubes,not just 5998s.


Thanks for that!  I will be using my 5998's, for sure now.   I know Stavros, would not steer me wrong.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> I believe that these tariffs just went into effect and are being billed by eBay. Just tried this listing to see:
> Request total
> 
> 
> ...


That's the NY sales tax collected by eBay. Same here.


----------



## mordy

Yes, you are right. But why do I have to pay sales tax on an item shipped from Taiwan?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Yes, you are right. But why do I have to pay sales tax on an item shipped from Taiwan?



It is the tariff put on China


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> It is the tariff put on China


That should be much more than 10%. But the tax sucks.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Yes, you are right. But why do I have to pay sales tax on an item shipped from Taiwan?





2359glenn said:


> It is the tariff put on China



Tariff should only be collected on items shipped from China. Not Taiwan!  Weird...


----------



## UntilThen

carlman14 said:


> That's great info, thanks! I seem to be a problem magnet, so I'll definitely avoid the 5998. I've loved my bottlehead crack so much that I decided to go big and I put a deposit down on a GOTL. I'm super pumped about it, and I'm just trying to gain as much tube knowledge as I can so things go smoothly when I get it



I've heard the Bottlehead Crack with Speedball before but whilst it's enjoyable, it's miles behind the GOTL. Putting down a deposit on a GOTL is the best move if you're after an OTL that is still affordable. 

Having said that, I've probably just extended the queue for the GOTL. 

I haven't powered on the GOTL for 5 days! So tonight being a Friday night, I've decided to flick the power button on. Tubes are already in place - Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with my odd ball 2 x Fivre and 4 x Tung Sol 6bx7gt. Such a great tone ! TGIF !


----------



## UntilThen

I'll give myself the luxury of swapping the power tubes tonight. So after an hour with the 6 x 6bx7gt, I swap over to 2 x 5998 and ..... these Tongue Saul are as good as the 6bx7gt(s) ..

I chuckle because I saw another post that obviously let the auto prompt change Tung Sol to Tongue Saul..... nevertheless whatever name you want to call it, these tubes sound amazing but it took 20 mins for the pings and pongs to disappear. Was I afraid that they would damage my HD800? Nup ... if they blow up my headphones then it's a good excuse to get another headphone.


----------



## carlman14

UntilThen said:


> I've heard the Bottlehead Crack with Speedball before but whilst it's enjoyable, it's miles behind the GOTL. Putting down a deposit on a GOTL is the best move if you're after an OTL that is still affordable.
> 
> Having said that, I've probably just extended the queue for the GOTL.
> 
> I haven't powered on the GOTL for 5 days! So tonight being a Friday night, I've decided to flick the power button on. Tubes are already in place - Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with my odd ball 2 x Fivre and 4 x Tung Sol 6bx7gt. Such a great tone ! TGIF !



My decision was between the GOTL and offerings from decware and ampsandsound. I've never heard one bad thing about the GOTL (and it was cheaper than the other two options), so I went with that! I am already learning how fun and addicting it is buying new tubes...


----------



## rosgr63

Wes S said:


> Thanks for that!  I will be using my 5998's, for sure now.   I know Stavros, would not steer me wrong.



No way I wouldn't do that.

As a precaution just unplug your headphones when you start up the amp.

Power tubes like 6AS7/6080/5998 may arc over during start up but that's within the first 5mins.

Better safe than sorry.


----------



## rosgr63 (Jun 14, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> It is the tariff put on China



You are lucky if that's all you have to pay.

I have to pay customs brokers fees €15 per package + 25% tax on the sum of item cost + shipping.

An item that costs $85 and $15 to ship would cost me:
€15 + (85+15)*25% a total of €15 + $25
that is about $17+ $25 = $42 on taxes!!!!!

How about that!


----------



## mordy

About the tax I paid now for an item from Taiwan: I called eBay to clarify, and what I am paying is the New York State sales tax which is 8.375% where I live. It went into effect June 1, 2019.
I guess that it is the same situation now as when I go into a store and buy an imported item - I have to pay sales tax on it.
You know the old saying: Two things are certain in life - death and taxes.....


----------



## rosgr63

Yes

Just as well we have good friends to help


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> You are lucky if that's all you have to pay.
> 
> I have to pay customs brokers fees €15 per package + 25% tax on the sum of item cost + shipping.
> 
> ...



This is why Lucy no longer sends you cookies


----------



## UntilThen

All that pales in comparison to the submarine fees I have to pay for the tubes to be shipped to me. 

Fortunately I bought all my tubes and sockets some time ago. Before when trade wars began. Before when cave men belt each other with clubs.

It's great to wake up at 4am and this combination is crystal so I shall call it that.

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and GEC 6080.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> This is why Lucy no longer sends you cookies



You are eating them all........non left for me!


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> You are eating them all........non left for me!



Cookies war? Just send them to me.


----------



## attmci (Jun 14, 2019)

mordy said:


> About the tax I paid now for an item from Taiwan: I called eBay to clarify, and what I am paying is the New York State sales tax which is 8.375% where I live. It went into effect June 1, 2019.
> I guess that it is the same situation now as when I go into a store and buy an imported item - I have to pay sales tax on it.
> You know the old saying: Two things are certain in life - death and taxes.....


OK, use the PROMOx today, will save you a couple of $ tax.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> Cookies war? Just send them to me.



I thought you were my friend


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> I thought you were my friend



I am. I will send you some kangaroo jerky.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> All that pales in comparison to the submarine fees I have to pay for the tubes to be shipped to me.
> 
> Fortunately I bought all my tubes and sockets some time ago. Before when trade wars began. Before when cave men belt each other with clubs.
> 
> ...


Hi UT,
What happened to the rear socket savers?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> What happened to the rear socket savers?



They are right there. Just hidden from view. 

Man if there's a driver to rival the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, it's the Mullard ECC35. Back to 6 x 6bx7gt. I like this combo a lot. More than cookies.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy do share your experience with the Sylvania 6sn7w shorties.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Mordy do share your experience with the Sylvania 6sn7w shorties.


Right now I am spending time with the "King of 6SN7 tubes" - the 12SX7GT. With the tube complement I am using nothing sounds as good, including the 6SN7W.
Quote:
_"Nothing else is as full, wide, deep, accurate, and emotionally all-enveloping as the JAN RCA and JAN Rogers 12SX7 tubes." _
Previously I stressed the emotional component of listening to this tube, saying that it has "soul". 

Here is a read but please, do not publicize this because I don't want the prices to go to the roof: 
http://www.diytube.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4984


----------



## UntilThen

Unfortunately it was just one person's opinion. 

So here's a reply from the same thread. 

With respect to your 12SX7 and why it may sound so good. It was designed to work on aircraft with lower voltages. The lower plate voltage is probably optimum in the Ultra for this tube to sound good. The 12SN7 and 6SN7 are not working optimum in the ultra circuit for the plate voltages and therefore will not deliver optimum performance. *To claim the 12SX7 is the greatest 6SN7 tube ever is well debatable in my opinion. *It is going to be the best in your preamp but may very well not sound the best in a circuit with the higher voltages that work best with the 6SN7/5692.


----------



## mordy

The GOTL was designed for use with 12V tubes and in my single person opinion the 12SX7 sounds excellent in my setup, but so far, it is just my opinion and nothing else.
The emotional component of this tube continues to amaze me - it imparts a happiness and liveliness to the music.
As with all tubes, the performance of the tube is amp dependent , and IMHO this tube performs very well in the GOTL. 
I make no claim that the 12SX7 is the greatest 6SN7 type tube; haven't even heard all the different top 6SN7 tubes. It is just that it works better for me than the other 6SN7 variants that I have.


----------



## rnros (Jun 14, 2019)

For the orchestral or Beethoven fans here...
BIS has a fantastic one-day offer on the Beethoven Symphonies by Vanska/MinnesotaOrch in HiRes 24/88.2.
*Typically $73, today only $24.*
BIS has a daily 50% off selection, this is both a great selection and a more than 50% discount.

https://www.eclassical.com/pages/daily-deal.html?cache=purge

Follow the link and be sure to select Studio Quality for the 24bit version.
Great performances and sonics from the BIS catalog.
Check the review comments below if interested...



Spoiler: Recording Review Comments



_The very first instalment, released in December 2004, caused the reviewer in International Record Review to state that ‘Vänskä's Beethoven looks set to be a front-runner among the historically unprejudiced cycles now available.’ After that each new release in Osmo Vänskä’s cycle of Beethoven’s symphonies with the Minnesota Orchestra has been treated as an occasion in the international music press; reviewers one by one discovering ‘one of the finest performances of the Funeral March ever recorded’, ‘a Pastoral of uncommon beauty’, ‘an Eighth of reference quality’ and a Ninth to ‘rank alongside the finest of any era’. The fifth and final disc – with ‘a Seventh that just may top them all’ according to one review – was released in 2008, and caused reviewers to start doing their sums. Among representative comments are the following: ‘a Beethoven cycle that stands with Barenboim's as a modern reference edition’ (ClassicsToday.com), ‘a Beethoven reforged for today's world’ (Gramophone), and ‘a magnificent traversal that seems very much of and for our own time’ (American Record Guide). A constantly praised feature of the series has been the sound quality, in both stereo and surround sound formats. About the first disc the reviewer on website klassik.com remarked that ‘one can hardly hope to hear such a many-layered sound until the next BIS release of Beethoven’s Symphonies - except for in concert’, while his colleague on ClassicsToday.com described the final instalment as having ‘brilliantly engineered, utterly natural sonics in all formats’ (ClassicsToday.com). The review in Fanfare sums it up: ‘Vänskä's is the preferred SACD traversal, and one of the most desirable in any format.’ Some of the greatest music ever, in electrifying performances and state-of-the-art recordings, is now available as a boxed set in full SACD / Surround Sound glory. And at a highly competitive price it even includes comprehensive liner notes by Beethoven expert Barry Cooper._


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> You are eating them all........non left for me!



No we don't want you to pay tax on cookies.
Lucy felt bad we give you a present and you have to pay tax to get it.
It is like you are paying for a present
And yes I get to eat yours too now.


----------



## Monsterzero

I landed a job DJing in the Bahamas back in the 90s on Paradise Island. The contract was for one year,so I packed all my stuff and off I went,only to discover I left my favorite ballcap back home. It was old and weather beaten,sweat stained,but it was worn in and didnt give me a headache to wear,unlike most other hats. I had my friend send it to me.
I received a notice a short time later notifying me that my package was waiting for me in Nassau,so I went to pick it up. The lady at the post office told me to open the package in front of her,which I found odd,but I complied. She took my ratty hat from me,looked it over and said "Twenty dollars please"
I was like What?!?!

Taxes and import duties are absurd,especially on something that is used and taxes have already been paid. 
The thrills of living outside of the USA.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I landed a job DJing in the Bahamas back in the 90s on Paradise Island. The contract was for one year,so I packed all my stuff and off I went,only to discover I left my favorite ballcap back home. It was old and weather beaten,sweat stained,but it was worn in and didnt give me a headache to wear,unlike most other hats. I had my friend send it to me.
> I received a notice a short time later notifying me that my package was waiting for me in Nassau,so I went to pick it up. The lady at the post office told me to open the package in front of her,which I found odd,but I complied. She took my ratty hat from me,looked it over and said "Twenty dollars please"
> I was like What?!?!
> 
> ...



They say taxes in New York state are the worst. I originally came from NY in North Carolina thee is a car tax. I have to pay tax every year on my car.
When I first moved here I said What I am not buying my car every year over and over. It is actually a luxury tax guess it is a luxury to own a car here.
It was hard to get people to believe there is no such tax in New York.


----------



## Monsterzero

In Thailand theres no such "luxury" tax on 2 door cars or motorbikes with low CCs(think mopeds).
Anything with 4 or more doors(including a tailgate),or a proper motorcycle,the taxes are outrageous.
Same goes for cigars,audio equipment,TVs.
Dare try not to live like a pauper in Thailand,and there is hell to pay.


----------



## UntilThen

Huh you should see what it cost to buy a new car in Singapore. You have to buy the certificate of entitlement.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 14, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Huh you should see what it cost to buy a new car in Singapore. You have to buy the certificate of entitlement.



Hung out in Sg quite a bit. Yeah silly expensive there too. Im into aquarium keeping and hung out talking fish in a shop one day,and the only customers that came in were all driving Benz and Ferraris. Need to be rich apparently to own nice fish tanks in Sg.

EDIT: In Singapore they would get nice German made fish tank gear. In Thailand all we got was Chinese garbage.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Hung out in Sg quite a bit. Yeah silly expensive there too. Im into aquarium keeping and hung out talking fish in a shop one day,and the only customers that came in were all driving Benz and Ferraris. Need to be rich apparently to own nice fish tanks in Sg.
> 
> EDIT: In Singapore they would get nice German made fish tank gear. In Thailand all we got was Chinese garbage.



Buy this Platinum Arowana. Cost more than the BMWs.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Hung out in Sg quite a bit. Yeah silly expensive there too. Im into aquarium keeping and hung out talking fish in a shop one day,and the only customers that came in were all driving Benz and Ferraris. Need to be rich apparently to own nice fish tanks in Sg.
> 
> EDIT: In Singapore they would get nice German made fish tank gear. In Thailand all we got was Chinese garbage.



Singapore: beautiful place, amazing cheap food, and great people but the sin taxes are astronomical. For a double whiskey and coke, $24. A basic Toyota Camry costs you $50k.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Hung out in Sg quite a bit. Yeah silly expensive there too. Im into aquarium keeping and hung out talking fish in a shop one day,and the only customers that came in were all driving Benz and Ferraris. Need to be rich apparently to own nice fish tanks in Sg.
> 
> EDIT: In Singapore they would get nice German made fish tank gear. In Thailand all we got was Chinese garbage.



Do you know there is a radio tax in Germany to get out of paying it you have to prove you don't own a radio or TV even in your car.


----------



## UntilThen

Anyway back to music. The ECC33 is quiet now. I had it burn in for 30 mins before playing and my word, it's electrifying. To think I almost gave this Haltron ECC33 away. 

 

Listening to


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Do you know there is a radio tax in Germany to get out of paying it you have to prove you don't own a radio or TV even in your car.



Oh you need more than a radio in the car. You need Dynaudio Esotars or Focal Utopias. Forget about the TV.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 14, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Buy this Platinum Arowana. Cost more than the BMWs.



At least you can buy them in Asia. Here all we can buy (legally)are Silver and Black Arrowanas,otherwise you need to be in tight with the Triad to get the coveted Golds or Platinums.

A stunning Chili Red Arrowana


----------



## leftside

I think a few of you also purchased the Bendix tubes from this guy?
https://www.ebay.ca/usr/jollyrarestuff?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

I tried them out tonight and they work great. Don't think they had been used in a while though as they took about 30 mins to settle down, but then they were very quiet - even with high sensitivity phones. These tubes in general definitely take longer to warm up properly - certainly longer than the others.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> I think a few of you also purchased the Bendix tubes from this guy?
> https://www.ebay.ca/usr/jollyrarestuff?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
> 
> I tried them out tonight and they work great. Don't think they had been used in a while though as they took about 30 mins to settle down, but then they were very quiet - even with high sensitivity phones. These tubes in general definitely take longer to warm up properly - certainly longer than the others.



Was that you bidding against me?
 All good,Stavros sent me a pair that are en route across the Pond.


----------



## leftside (Jun 15, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Was that you bidding against me?
> All good,Stavros sent me a pair that are en route across the Pond.


I think he sold 4 sets - so 25% chance I bid against you  I only ever place one bid - 4 seconds from the end.

You'll like the bass on these


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> I think he sold 4 sets - so 25% chance I bid against you  I only ever place one bid - 4 seconds from the end.
> 
> You'll like the bass on these




Atmos? You like Atmos? Who knew?!?
Listening to this track with Cetron 6336s and HiFiMan Ananda. Very nice.

Yeah those damn last second bids kill me...every...single...time.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> You'll like the bass on these



Never knew Atmos but now I do. My HD800 has bass who knew.  Still using ECC33. One of the best driver I've tried.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Atmos? You like Atmos? Who knew?!?
> Listening to this track with Cetron 6336s and HiFiMan Ananda. Very nice.
> 
> Yeah those damn last second bids kill me...every...single...time.


If you want to win, just bid $1000 to beat those guys. LOL


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> I think a few of you also purchased the Bendix tubes from this guy?
> https://www.ebay.ca/usr/jollyrarestuff?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
> 
> I tried them out tonight and they work great. Don't think they had been used in a while though as they took about 30 mins to settle down, but then they were very quiet - even with high sensitivity phones. These tubes in general definitely take longer to warm up properly - certainly longer than the others.



Yes, these sound great...take longer to settle in than the 5998 tubes though...bass is killer I love them with the ECC31/32 & Atticus


----------



## UntilThen

Haven't been using my LCD-3f for several weeks but now I'm using it with ECC33 and 6 x 6bx7gt. Incredible sounding. The OTL amp driving it with ease at 11am on the volume dial.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Matt I could build you a nice 300B amp!   It's 1/2 the price of the WA5 and sounds better
> I use HEXFRED rectifiers now with a Amperite time delay tube to delay the B+ voltage in the 300B amp.



Dang your post was since 11th Feb 2018....

Ok put me on the queue. How long are we looking at? Couple of months is not a problem. I'm not in a hurry. 

Are Hexfred rectifiers the best way to go?


----------



## UntilThen

$1499 a matched pair. Not too bad... https://www.westernelectric.com/products/300b.html


----------



## heliosphann

leftside said:


> I think a few of you also purchased the Bendix tubes from this guy?
> https://www.ebay.ca/usr/jollyrarestuff?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
> 
> I tried them out tonight and they work great. Don't think they had been used in a while though as they took about 30 mins to settle down, but then they were very quiet - even with high sensitivity phones. These tubes in general definitely take longer to warm up properly - certainly longer than the others.





Monsterzero said:


> Was that you bidding against me?
> All good,Stavros sent me a pair that are en route across the Pond.



I scored the last pair up for sale...


----------



## Wes S

UntilThen said:


> Buy this Platinum Arowana. Cost more than the BMWs.


One of my favorite fish!


----------



## Wes S

rosgr63 said:


> No way I wouldn't do that.
> 
> As a precaution just unplug your headphones when you start up the amp.
> 
> ...


I have one of the 5998's you sold me, in my amp, and it is dead quiet, and sounds glorious.  I have been following the startup procedure, just as you told me, and all is well.


----------



## UntilThen

Wes S said:


> One of my favorite fish!



Arowana is too expensive for me. I've turn my attention to 300b instead.


----------



## Wes S

UntilThen said:


> Arowana is too expensive for me. I've turn my attention to 300b instead.


I am out of the fish biz, and aquariums at the moment, and all my money goes to tubes.  Seems like a good trade off.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Dang your post was since 11th Feb 2018....
> 
> Ok put me on the queue. How long are we looking at? Couple of months is not a problem. I'm not in a hurry.
> 
> Are Hexfred rectifiers the best way to go?




Man, too bad you need to drive big speakers besides headphones also....or you could save oodles of cash by going 300B or another design.
You can buy a truckload of EL3N tubes for $1500


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Man, too bad you need to drive big speakers besides headphones also....or you could save oodles of cash by going 300B or another design.
> You can buy a truckload of EL3N tubes for $1500



I want the 300b. The big speakers will be driven by the 160w Sansui au alpha 907mr. 

This 300b will be primarily for headphones and a pair of efficient speakers that can be driven by 8 watts. There's a good review of the Takasuki, Western Electric and Shugang Treasures 300b - https://www.dagogo.com/takatsuki-ta-300b-vacuum-tube-review/


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I want the 300b. The big speakers will be driven by the 160w Sansui au alpha 907mr.
> 
> This 300b will be primarily for headphones and a pair of efficient speakers that can be driven by 8 watts. There's a good review of the Takasuki, Western Electric and Shugang Treasures 300b - https://www.dagogo.com/takatsuki-ta-300b-vacuum-tube-review/




In that case....all is good


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> In that case....all is good



It will be the final amp. After that I can think about the Arowana.


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> I want the 300b. The big speakers will be driven by the 160w Sansui au alpha 907mr.
> 
> This 300b will be primarily for headphones and a pair of efficient speakers that can be driven by 8 watts. There's a good review of the Takasuki, Western Electric and Shugang Treasures 300b - https://www.dagogo.com/takatsuki-ta-300b-vacuum-tube-review/




The Takatsuki & WE are great 300B's.

There are other cheaper alternatives that sound great too.


----------



## rosgr63

Wes S said:


> I am out of the fish biz, and aquariums at the moment, and all my money goes to tubes.  Seems like a good trade off.



A few years ago I would opt for the tubes.
Now I prefer the fish.....strange for a tube addict like me to say it!


----------



## Althalus

rosgr63 said:


> A few years ago I would opt for the tubes.
> Now I prefer the fish.....strange for a tube addict like me to say it!



What are you refering to. Fish for Aquarium or fish for steaming /frying?


----------



## rosgr63

Althalus said:


> What are you refering to. Fish for Aquarium or fish for steaming /frying?



Fish in the sea or in an aquarium.


----------



## Althalus

No Food? Can't believe it.


----------



## rosgr63

Althalus said:


> No Food? Can't believe it.



Oh man now you are talking,

I don't want to start about food and derail the tread. I'll never stop talking.

Glenn is having some nice sea food today waiting for his report later.


----------



## Althalus

Reminds me of holiday's in Andalucia. In Malaga we visited a market and my wife wanted to visit every stand. You will not believe how often I needed to tell her not to buy fish when you stay in a hotel.


----------



## rosgr63

That's very bad of you, you could take it to a local restaurant and have them cook it for you.


----------



## Althalus

She will never allow anyone else prepare it. There can only be one Cook /Boss.


----------



## Monsterzero

Wes S said:


> I am out of the fish biz, and aquariums at the moment, and all my money goes to tubes.  Seems like a good trade off.



Were planning on moving out of NY once my wife's son graduates from HS. Three more long cold years to go. Once were moved to Arizona I'm starting up a tank,or ten.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Never knew Atmos but now I do. My HD800 has bass who knew.  Still using ECC33. One of the best driver I've tried.



Atmos is killer! I have a ton of deep/psy/Goa trance,but I rarely listen to it.
You wanna hear some bass? I use this album to test bass on headphones. I disliked my old PF LCD-2,until I heard this album thru them.


----------



## rosgr63

Althalus said:


> She will never allow anyone else prepare it. There can only be one Cook /Boss.



You are so right, my apologies to the Boss........


----------



## rosgr63

Listening to Ray Charles & Betty Carter at the minute.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Dang your post was since 11th Feb 2018....
> 
> Ok put me on the queue. How long are we looking at? Couple of months is not a problem. I'm not in a hurry.
> 
> Are Hexfred rectifiers the best way to go?


You won't regret it. Really nice match for the LCD-3. The amp works best with higher impedance, lower sensitivity headphones. The wait is a bit longer than a couple of months though. I first contacted Glenn April 2018 about a second amp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 15, 2019)

Althalus said:


> What are you refering to. Fish for Aquarium or fish for steaming /frying?



I'll know that I've made it when I enjoy my first silver arowana fish n chips, life goals.


----------



## UntilThen

I fell asleep dreaming of 300b and Arowana fish and chips. Then I woke up and there's more fish talk here. It's a strange strange world.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> You won't regret it. Really nice match for the LCD-3. The amp works best with higher impedance, lower sensitivity headphones. The wait is a bit longer than a couple of months though. I first contacted Glenn April 2018 about a second amp.



Yes I know I won't regret it except there won't be a Tony Newman around to urge me on. John Wayne has ridden off into the sunset. 

I spend 2 weeks with a Woo Audio WA5LE and Takasuki 300b tubes. The memory of that will keep me waiting patiently.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Listening to Ray Charles & Betty Carter at the minute.



Is that with a 300b amp?


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> The Takatsuki & WE are great 300B's.
> 
> There are other cheaper alternatives that sound great too.



Like what? I'm all ears....


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Atmos is killer! I have a ton of deep/psy/Goa trance,but I rarely listen to it.
> You wanna hear some bass? I use this album to test bass on headphones. I disliked my old PF LCD-2,until I heard this album thru them.




This is nice on the LCD-3f. It's not just bass but it's musical. The sound of water. More fishes and sea.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> This is nice on the LCD-3f. It's not just bass but it's musical. The sound of water. More fishes and sea.



Oh,yeah,didnt mean to imply it was _just_ bass. Its a fantastic album all the way thru. This album has subterranean bass though. All the hype of the LCD's sub bass became crystal clear on this album to me.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Oh,yeah,didnt mean to imply it was _just_ bass. Its a fantastic album all the way thru. This album has subterranean bass though. All the hype of the LCD's sub bass became crystal clear on this album to me.



I'm with you on the Audeze LCD especially 3 sub bass. Super Dope, eargasmic, some really appropriate comments. And my favourite MATTArhythm


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> I landed a job DJing in the Bahamas back in the 90s on Paradise Island. The contract was for one year,so I packed all my stuff and off I went,only to discover I left my favorite ballcap back home. It was old and weather beaten,sweat stained,but it was worn in and didnt give me a headache to wear,unlike most other hats. I had my friend send it to me.
> I received a notice a short time later notifying me that my package was waiting for me in Nassau,so I went to pick it up. The lady at the post office told me to open the package in front of her,which I found odd,but I complied. She took my ratty hat from me,looked it over and said "Twenty dollars please"
> I was like What?!?!
> 
> ...



Don't complain, you're lucky. If it was new, instead of old and ratty, it would have been $100.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Dang your post was since 11th Feb 2018....
> 
> Ok put me on the queue. How long are we looking at? Couple of months is not a problem. I'm not in a hurry.
> 
> Are Hexfred rectifiers the best way to go?



YES! I will look forward to your very thorough review comments. 
Serious, congrats on that!


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> Is that with a 300b amp?



Yes but running with WE 328 &WE VT-52's pairs at the minute.



UntilThen said:


> Like what? I'm all ears....



PM me when you are ready Matt.


----------



## UntilThen

My Head-Fi station presently. 

Haltron ECC33 and 6 x 6bx7gt settling down to a very low noise floor and a great tone with the LCD3. I certainly would like to know how the Glenn 300b amp compares to this OTL amp. It will be all the amplification that I will ever need, together with the Sansui.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> YES! I will look forward to your very thorough review comments.
> Serious, congrats on that!



Thanks mate. It will be a long while from the looks of it. When is your EL3N amp due?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> My Head-Fi station presently.
> 
> Haltron ECC33 and 6 x 6bx7gt settling down to a very low noise floor and a great tone with the LCD3. I certainly would like to know how the Glenn 300b amp compares to this OTL amp. It will be all the amplification that I will ever need, together with the Sansui.



Are you sure you don't want a EL3N amp?  I like the sound of it better then the 300B.
If I do parallel EL3N's two per channel it would be as powerful as a 300B amp and all four output tubes will cost $80 
And they don't burn out like some of the 300B's do.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Are you sure you don't want a EL3N amp?  I like the sound of it better then the 300B.
> If I do parallel EL3N's two per channel it would be as powerful as a 300B amp and all four output tubes will cost $80
> And they don't burn out like some of the 300B's do.



You mean 4 x EL3N behind as powers and 2 x EL3N in front as drivers?

So running 6 x EL3N? 

And I still get to roll We422A or GEC 5U4G as rectifiers?

And this will give me 8 watts?

I have to chew on it.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> You mean 4 x EL3N behind as powers and 2 x EL3N in front as drivers?
> 
> So running 6 x EL3N?
> 
> ...



Could even throw in a 6SN7 socket for driver


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Could even throw in a 6SN7 socket for driver



I didn’t want to make it complicated for this. The combination of c3g and 300b with Lundahl transformers is very appealing for my final amp.

And the VU meters


----------



## UntilThen

Would like to get more feedback from 300b owners. Do share your experience with this amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I didn’t want to make it complicated for this. The combination of c3g and 300b with Lundahl transformers is very appealing for my final amp.
> 
> And the VU meters



They are not VU meters they are for bias they measure current through the 300B ans you set the bias with a pot.
Usually about 70Ma for most 300B's


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> They are not VU meters they are for bias they measure current through the 300B ans you set the bias with a pot.
> Usually about 70Ma for most 300B's



Alright I am learning. Are there any disadvantages with tube rectifiers in the 300b amp and is the PY500 the only option for tube rectifiers?

I am not against hexfred just want to explore the options.


----------



## UntilThen

I’m thinking besides the c3g as drivers, have another 2 sockets for 6sn7 or 6SL7 as optional drivers. With caps to cover the unused sockets so it will still look nice and neat.

Is that doable?

Bare in mind I am non technical and you have to let me know what’s ok and what’s not.


----------



## UntilThen

This amp is beautiful. I'll have this Glenn. With or without hexfred. 

The stunning clarity of the c3g with the luscious deep bass tone of the 300b tubes will be fire crackles hot.


----------



## UntilThen

Which looks nicer? The one above or this with the Amperite time delay valve.


----------



## rosgr63

*Happy Fathers Day*


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> *Happy Fathers Day*



Thank you. I spend the day playing badminton, then lunch with good friends and now listening to lovely music.... and I decide to join the 300 club.


----------



## rosgr63

Great decision!!!

Well done.


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> Great decision!!!
> 
> Well done.



What? For saying this is Sparta? 

Incidentally Stavros, do you have a Glenn 300b amp? I need to hear it from you. What you think of it !


----------



## rosgr63

I just sold my ECBA 300B/PX4 amp and my other 300B/VT-52/PX4 amp was not built by Glenn, so I'm afraid I can't be of much help.

There are a few 300B owners participating in this thread but are asleep now.
I'm sure they will give their feedback.

As a general comment I can say 300B amps sound nice.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok that's good enough for me. I'm in the queue.


----------



## whirlwind

Happy Fathers Day everybody.

There are a few people here that own the 300B amp Matt....I am sure they will help you out with what you need to know, along with Glenn.

This amp has got to sound fantastic, only downfall is the price of the 300B tubes....sound wise should be killer!

The queue can be quite long now days as everybody seems to be wanting an amp from Glenn....but as always it is worth the wait.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Alright I am learning. Are there any disadvantages with tube rectifiers in the 300b amp and is the PY500 the only option for tube rectifiers?
> 
> I am not against hexfred just want to explore the options.



I suppose I can use a different rectifier but would have to add a 5 volt transformer somewhere.
It would have to be a tube with slow worm up like a GZ34 GZ37.
I did make a 300B amp that used 5 volt rectifiers a while ago maybe  5 years ago.
Just can't use a GZ32 he tried it and it blew up on the inside and blew the fuse.

There might be a couple of 300B amps for sale I would have to modify them for 230 volt 50Hz


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I’m thinking besides the c3g as drivers, have another 2 sockets for 6sn7 or 6SL7 as optional drivers. With caps to cover the unused sockets so it will still look nice and neat.
> 
> Is that doable?
> 
> Bare in mind I am non technical and you have to let me know what’s ok and what’s not.



The 6SN7 cannot properly drive a 300B and definitely not the 6SL7.
I know company's use the 6SN7 but not really optimal at driving the miller capacitance of the 300B.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks for throwing up some ideas there regarding tube rectifiers, Glenn. It may well be that I might go with hexfred or the PY500.

I'm not keen on buying someone's else 300b amp. I get the joy of an amp custom build for me. There's no rush really. GOTL is sounding really good now and so is the Sansui. So I'll just wait patiently even if it's a year. By that time, the Western Electric 300b tubes should be rolling off the plant.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The 6SN7 cannot properly drive a 300B and definitely not the 6SL7.
> I know company's use the 6SN7 but not really optimal at driving the miller capacitance of the 300B.



That's fine with that. The more I think about it, the c3g and 300b would be a great combination. Also I wouldn't be tube rolling with this amp, so let's just go with the tried and tested c3g as drivers. Neat and great looking without more sockets messing up with the looks.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jun 16, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Thanks for throwing up some ideas there regarding tube rectifiers, Glenn. It may well be that I might go with hexfred or the PY500.
> 
> I'm not keen on buying someone's else 300b amp. I get the joy of an amp custom build for me. There's no rush really. GOTL is sounding really good now and so is the Sansui. So I'll just wait patiently even if it's a year. By that time, the Western Electric 300b tubes should be rolling off the plant.



I am waiting for the new WE 300Bs. You have to buy high dollar 300Bs or the filaments burn out. I have tried many and all the filament burned out.
The last good ones were KR globe after a year one of the filaments blew. I have tried them all and the same thing.
Originally had WE300Bs that were in there for years with no problem. Then I stupidly sold them after the doctor told me that I had 18 months to live.
Now 7 years later I am still here with no good 300Bs and won't pay the price of the TAKs


----------



## heliosphann

Only thing I hate dealing with old tubes is I have some mold allergies and just by handling the tubes/boxes I can have a reaction. I was just checking out the Bendix 6080's I got and had a flare up.

What is the best way to clean tubes?


----------



## leftside

heliosphann said:


> Only thing I hate dealing with old tubes is I have some mold allergies and just by handling the tubes/boxes I can have a reaction. I was just checking out the Bendix 6080's I got and had a flare up.
> 
> What is the best way to clean tubes?


Fine sandpaper like P600 for the pins and then some cotton swabs/buds with IPA to clean the base. Be very careful when handling the tubes. Try not to wipe the lettering off the glass...


----------



## heliosphann

leftside said:


> Fine sandpaper like P600 for the pins and then some cotton swabs/buds with IPA to clean the base. Be very careful when handling the tubes. Try not to wipe the lettering off the glass...



What about the glass? There's some residue on a non-lettering part I want to clean.


----------



## leftside (Jun 16, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> What about the glass? There's some residue on a non-lettering part I want to clean.


Personally I wouldn't touch it if there is still some lettering on the glass. Others might have ideas.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Are you sure you don't want a EL3N amp?  I like the sound of it better then the 300B.
> If I do parallel EL3N's two per channel it would be as powerful as a 300B amp and all four output tubes will cost $80
> And they don't burn out like some of the 300B's do.


Glenn - I am curious now:
What are the key differences between the EL3N amp and the GOTL?
I understand the EL3N is more powerful (and obviously uses different tubes), but what are the other differences?  Who should opt for it instead (or in addition to) GOTL?


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> Hey Glenn, what do you think of using a 6F6G running triode connected as the driver stage?  These tubes have nicer looking plate curves than most real triodes and they don't have a ton of gain.





2359glenn said:


> I have never tried the 6F6G it might be good if it is not noisy and micro phonic.



Found the above REALLY OLD and very short discussion regarding 6F6G tubes...  Anyone tried it since?  Either as driver or as output tubes?


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Thanks mate. It will be a long while from the looks of it. When is your EL3N amp due?



Late August, more or less. Will be moving soon, so very busy now.


----------



## gibosi

heliosphann said:


> Only thing I hate dealing with old tubes is I have some mold allergies and just by handling the tubes/boxes I can have a reaction. I was just checking out the Bendix 6080's I got and had a flare up.
> 
> What is the best way to clean tubes?



The only reason to preserve text and graphics on the the glass is resale value. So if you do not intend to sell them, then don't worry about it. I use microfiber cloth to clean glass tubes, but then, I don't have mold allergies so don't know how well this would work for you.


----------



## gibosi (Jun 16, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Glenn - I am curious now:
> What are the key differences between the EL3N amp and the GOTL?
> I understand the EL3N is more powerful (and obviously uses different tubes), but what are the other differences?  Who should opt for it instead (or in addition to) GOTL?



Aside from the different tube complements, the biggest difference is the presence or absence of an output transformer. The GOTL is an OTL -- "Output Transformer Less" amp. That is, there is no output transformer and your headphones are essentially connected directly to the plates of the output tubes. And thus, these amps work best with high impedance/efficient headphones.

On the other hand, the EL3N (and 300B) has an output transformer. That is, a transformer is used to couple the output of the output tube to your headphones, or in some cases speakers. Further, these transformers often have several taps that allow them to be used with 4 ohm, 8 ohm, 16 ohm loads or what have you. You should tell Glenn the impedance of your headphones, and if you wish to use it with speakers, the impedance of your speakers, so he can order the correct output transformer.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> OTL -- "Output Transformer Less" amp.



Ive often wondered this,and never had the thought to ask,until now....

So all of the GOTLs are OTLs,yet they have transformers. In my case,a Lundahl. So if its transformer less,why is there a transformer?


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> On the other hand, the EL3N (and 300B) has an output transformer. That is, a transformer is used to couple the output of the output tube to your headphones, or in some cases speakers. Further, these transformers often have several taps that allow them to be used with 4 ohm, 8 ohm, 16 ohm loads or what have you. You should tell Glenn the impedance of your headphones, and if you wish to use it with speakers, the impedance of your speakers, so he can order the correct output transformer.


Funnily enough, I've been having the exact same conversation with Glenn this weekend discussing the best configuration and transformers for low impedance/high sensitivity headphones. Also push-pull vs single-ended.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Ive often wondered this,and never had the thought to ask,until now....
> 
> So all of the GOTLs are OTLs,yet they have transformers. In my case,a Lundahl. So if its transformer less,why is there a transformer?



Because it's a Decepticon...

 Sorry, couldn't help myself.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> Because it's a Decepticon...
> 
> Sorry, couldn't help myself.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 16, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Ive often wondered this,and never had the thought to ask,until now....
> 
> So all of the GOTLs are OTLs,yet they have transformers. In my case,a Lundahl. So if its transformer less,why is there a transformer?



It is missing an output transformer, which increases current sent from the tubes to your phones in non-OTL topologies.  Instead, in an OTL, the headphones are more or less connected directly to the output tubes (via coupling capacitor to block DC).  The transformer in the OTL is used to step down (or up) wall AC to various usable voltages.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> It is missing an output transformer, which increases current sent from the tubes to your phones in non-OTL topologies.  Instead, in an OTL, the headphones are more or less connected directly to the output tubes (via coupling capacitor to block DC).  The transformer in the OTL is used to step down wall AC to various usable voltages.



So,its an input tranformer,but no output transformer?
So its like a semi boneless ham?


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> On the other hand, the EL3N (and 300B) has an output transformer. That is, a transformer is used to couple the output of the output tube to your headphones, or in some cases speakers. Further, these transformers often have several taps that allow them to be used with 4 ohm, 8 ohm, 16 ohm loads or what have you. You should tell Glenn the impedance of your headphones, and if you wish to use it with speakers, the impedance of your speakers, so he can order the correct output transformer.



Hmmm..... I use a pair of bookshelf speakers (ELAC UB5) to complement my headphones - would be interesting to have a single tube amp to drive headphones as well as the speakers!
The UB5 speakers have Sensitivity of 85 dB at 2.83 v/1m, and are rated as Nominal impedance: 4 Ω.

@2359glenn - what do you think?  Would a GEL3N be able to drive these speakers as well as high impedance cans (HD800, Atticus) and Planars?


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> So,its an input tranformer,but no output transformer?
> So its like a semi boneless ham?



That transformer is providing the current and voltage required to actually run the amp. So one section of that transformer is providing 13 amps at 6.3 volts for the heaters, which turns your vacuum tubes into little fire bottles. lol.  And another section is providing several 100 milliamps at about 240 volts (B+) which enables the signal to be amplified as the current passes through the driver and output tubes.

I should say that I am not an electrical engineer, far from it, and my understanding of all this is at best intuitive.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> That transformer is providing the current and voltage required to actually run the amp. So one section of that transformer is providing 13 amps at 6.3 volts for the heaters, which turns your vacuum tubes into little fire bottles. lol.  And another section is providing several 100 milliamps at about 240 volts (B+) which enables the signal to be amplified as the current passes through the driver and output tubes.
> 
> I should say that I am not an electrical engineer, far from it, and my understanding of all this is at best intuitive.


Tons of videos try to explain this on YouTube.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Atmos? You like Atmos? Who knew?!?


Played some Atmos and Antix this evening and then let Roon Radio do it's thing and find similar music. Found some great tracks/artists I'd never heard of before. If you haven't tried it, Roon Radio (combined with Tidal) is perhaps the best "music matching" service I've used.


----------



## leftside (Jun 17, 2019)

Ultrainferno said:


> My new amp uses a 6C5 input tube but I'm not that familiar with it. what are some good 6C5 tubes and what are the better replacements for these?
> 
> Thanks my tube friends


Did some searching on this thread for "6C5" and came across this old post from 2013  I finally got around to trying out a quad of Mullard 6C5 coke bottles tonight with Deyan's 6J5 to 6SN7 adapters and can confirm these tubes are great. Perhaps slightly warmer than the Brimars I had in there previously. Also see you are a 300B owner...

Deyan's 6J5 to 6SN7 adapters are very good. I was his guinea pig for these adapters, but they work great. Also take 6P5 and 6C5 tubes. Another tube for the tube compatibility list?

Edit: these Mullard 6C5 are definitely quite warm. Definitely warmer than the Brimar CV1932 coke bottle clear glass or GEC 6J5G coke bottle grey glass. Bass is heavy. Maybe too heavy with Bendix 6080 and electronic music. Would be very nice for those who are looking to add some warmth to their music.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Did some searching on this thread for "6C5" and came across this old post from 2013  I finally got around to trying out a quad of Mullard 6C5 coke bottles tonight with Deyan's 6J5 to 6SN7 adapters and can confirm these tubes are great. Perhaps slightly warmer than the Brimars I had in there previously. Also see you are a 300B owner...
> 
> Deyan's 6J5 to 6SN7 adapters are very good. I was his guinea pig for these adapters, but they work great. Also take 6P5 and 6C5 tubes. Another tube for the tube compatibility list?


Please post a picture. I assume that in the GOTL one pair is enough.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Played some Atmos and Antix this evening and then let Roon Radio do it's thing and find similar music. Found some great tracks/artists I'd never heard of before. If you haven't tried it, Roon Radio (combined with Tidal) is perhaps the best "music matching" service I've used.


If youre interested,PM me,and I will give you a list of stuff thats similar.


----------



## leftside

Yes one is all you need for the GOTL. Is it ok to post pics of other amps on here?  This is with the mesh plate 6C5G. Two are branded Haltron and two are branded Mullard, but they are the same construction.


mordy said:


> Please post a picture. I assume that in the GOTL one pair is enough.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> If youre interested,PM me,and I will give you a list of stuff thats similar.


Will do


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> That transformer is providing the current and voltage required to actually run the amp. So one section of that transformer is providing 13 amps at 6.3 volts for the heaters, which turns your vacuum tubes into little fire bottles. lol.  And another section is providing several 100 milliamps at about 240 volts (B+) which enables the signal to be amplified as the current passes through the driver and output tubes.
> 
> I should say that I am not an electrical engineer, far from it, and my understanding of all this is at best intuitive.



This is wright 
Plus the amp can't be connected directly to the power line touch it and zap.
There were old radios and TVs tat were hooked directly to the power line. But most of the time there were no input jacks that would be hot at the power line voltage.
Many people got killed with these the knob would come off the volume control and they would continue useing it until zap when they touched something grounded 
at the same time.


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 17, 2019)

I think that most people who opt for the GOTL are tube rollers and people who have mainly high impedance headphones....HD800 or any of ZMF's offerings.

If a person had only planar headphones, my guess would be they would opt for the EL3N amp

It is not a matter of one amp being better than the other.  The GOTL is the cheapest option and sound great with cheap tubes.....since most that come here are tube rollers, it ends up becoming the most expensive option as
you try to collect all of the best tubes.  

You would need the best tubes that you can possibly find for the GOTL to get close to the level of dynamics that the GEL3N provides when in two tube mode. Only thing is there are not tubes to roll.
You can really only roll rectifier tubes.

So in my opinion if you want tubes to roll, grab the GOTL.....if you don't care to roll tubes...grab the EL3N.

I really can't imagine anyone being unhappy with either amp.

I have really not listened to my GOTL much with the 6BL/X 7 tubes much....maybe this changes things I can't really say.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I suppose I can use a different rectifier but would have to add a 5 volt transformer somewhere.
> It would have to be a tube with slow worm up like a GZ34 GZ37.
> I did make a 300B amp that used 5 volt rectifiers a while ago maybe 5 years ago.



I still haven't dismissed this idea.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I am waiting for the new WE 300Bs. You have to buy high dollar 300Bs or the filaments burn out.



I will get a pair of those. 

In a nice box.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow a one year old Violectric V281 with DAC module selling for $1900 aussie dollars. I must resist. My end game goal is the 300b amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I will get a pair of those.
> 
> In a nice box.



Western Electric used to make some nice tubes.. And they would last forever.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Wow a one year old Violectric V281 with DAC module selling for $1900 aussie dollars. I must resist. My end game goal is the 300b amp.


Not taking into account the ethical aspects, but you could buy a Violetric clone used for around $600.
According to the people who know it sounds the same and may use the same circuit boards.


----------



## rosgr63

They did but some WE re issues started loosing vacuum so one can't be too careful.

I have used AVVT 300B-SL and 32B-SL and never had any issues.
Not bad sounding tubes.
They made true mesh plates too.


----------



## wazzupi

Could anyone recommend me power tubes with the lowest noise possible ?


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I think that most people who opt for the GOTL are tube rollers



Or,if youre like me,the GOTL turns you into a tube roller. Rolling is a blast. Very similar to free hand cooking,add some of this,a little of that and see how it goes. Of course,it aint cheap.


----------



## leftside (Jun 17, 2019)

I'm currently discussing a hybrid option with Glenn. 4 * EL3N power tubes, 2 * 6J5 and 1 * 6SN7 driver tubes (would only want the 6J5 OR the 6SN7 to be operational at once), and rectification. With lower impedance output transformers for lower input impedance headphones. Single-ended, transformer-coupled.


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> Could anyone recommend me power tubes with the lowest noise possible ?


The Russian 6H13C (and variants) get high marks for low noise.
In my personal experience interaction between tubes also matter and a quiet tube can become noisier when combined with specific tubes. Even the position of the tubes in the amp can make a difference - as an example switching right to left or vice versa can make a difference. Go figure....


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> They did but some WE re issues started loosing vacuum so one can't be too careful.
> 
> I have used AVVT 300B-SL and 32B-SL and never had any issues.
> Not bad sounding tubes.
> They made true mesh plates too.



There's a standard 90 days warranty on each tube. Fill in the warranty card within 10 days of purchase and get an extended 5 years limited warranty. 

There are some good info in the FAQ of this link.
https://sonicpurity.com.au/tubes/western-electric-300b


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Not taking into account the ethical aspects, but you could buy a Violetric clone used for around $600.
> According to the people who know it sounds the same and may use the same circuit boards.



No I do not like clones.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Or,if youre like me,the GOTL turns you into a tube roller. Rolling is a blast. Very similar to free hand cooking,add some of this,a little of that and see how it goes. Of course,it aint cheap.



You can become an accidental Master Chef.


----------



## UntilThen

Looks like they are already available.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-western-electric-300b-matched-pair.896653/


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> You can become an accidental Master Chef.



You can't however become an accidental Master Chief. There is only one.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Looks like they are already available.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-western-electric-300b-matched-pair.896653/





UntilThen said:


> Looks like they are already available.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-western-electric-300b-matched-pair.896653/


The factory order price is $1500 for a matched pair. Two single tubes are $1400. They list a dealer in Melbourne as well.
But you must pre-order and the waiting time is unclear.
By doing some reading I discovered that there was a previous reissue ending around 2007(?). Maybe the tubes advertised are from that batch?


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> The Russian 6H13C (and variants) get high marks for low noise.
> In my personal experience interaction between tubes also matter and a quiet tube can become noisier when combined with specific tubes. Even the position of the tubes in the amp can make a difference - as an example switching right to left or vice versa can make a difference. Go figure....


I have those  i wish i could find a reputable dealer who can sell me no noise 6bx7s


----------



## L0rdGwyn

By the time I get the GOTL, I should have full sets of RCA clear top, Tung Sol, Fivre, and Toshiba 6BX7, as well as Sylvania flat-plate and T-plate 6BL7.  One of the first things I'd like to do after getting accustomed to the amp is a little write-up on how they compare.


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 17, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Or,if youre like me,the GOTL turns you into a tube roller. Rolling is a blast. Very similar to free hand cooking,add some of this,a little of that and see how it goes. Of course,it aint cheap.



No, it ain't cheap.  If you want the better tubes you can spend $2000 in the blink of an eye   






leftside said:


> I'm currently discussing a hybrid option with Glenn. 4 * EL3N power tubes, 2 * 6J5 and 1 * 6SN7 driver tubes (would only want the 6J5 OR the 6SN7 to be operational at once), and rectification. With lower impedance output transformers for lower input impedance headphones. Single-ended, transformer-coupled.



This sounds like a pretty good idea, using 4 EL3N as power tubes and or the 6J5's or the 6SN7....I am assuming still only need one 6SN7 or two 6J5.
I am also guessing we are getting closer in the queue.


----------



## mordy

wazzupi said:


> I have those  i wish i could find a reputable dealer who can sell me no noise 6bx7s


How many 6BX7 do you have? 
Can't guarantee anything, but you can try ESR1 in Orlando, FL (407 826-5808). Stan lists the 6BX7GT for $11 each. Shipping is $8 for 1-6 tubes, $9 for 7-15 tubes. 
I have not bought directly from them yet, but I know that Glenn uses them as a source. Got a couple of tubes from Glenn that were sourced from there and they were in pristine condition.


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> You can't however become an accidental Master Chief. There is only one.



I am the mater Chief
Just kidding


----------



## wazzupi

mordy said:


> How many 6BX7 do you have?
> Can't guarantee anything, but you can try ESR1 in Orlando, FL (407 826-5808). Stan lists the 6BX7GT for $11 each. Shipping is $8 for 1-6 tubes, $9 for 7-15 tubes.
> I have not bought directly from them yet, but I know that Glenn uses them as a source. Got a couple of tubes from Glenn that were sourced from there and they were in pristine condition.


I had over 12 ive done every single configuration i could think of, did it help some sure but after a while or after changing a driver tube there would be noise unbearable alot of times.


----------



## wazzupi

How would i go about knowing or asking what my gotl amp is capable of using as a power tube ?


----------



## Phantaminum

Finally won a pair of GEC 6080s. While I love 6AS7 equivalent power tubes (large and spacious sound stage), I love how tight and quick the 6080s sound. As much as I wanted a pair of GEC 6AS7s, I’ll settle on the cheaper variant.  

Time to put a lock on my bank account.


----------



## heliosphann

Phantaminum said:


> Finally won a pair of GEC 6080s. While I love 6AS7 equivalent power tubes (large and spacious sound stage), I love how tight and quick the 6080s sound. As much as I wanted a pair of GEC 6AS7s, I’ll settle on the cheaper variant.
> 
> Time to put a lock on my bank account.



Did you get that pair that ended last night?


----------



## Monsterzero

wazzupi said:


> How would i go about knowing or asking what my gotl amp is capable of using as a power tube ?



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHcgqSa16WqaAjwUYoE3eZlSfmaSluQFVYqY1pry-NI/edit#gid=0


----------



## Phantaminum

heliosphann said:


> Did you get that pair that ended last night?



I think it ended in the morning but yeah, yesterday. Were you also bidding on it? :O


----------



## heliosphann

Phantaminum said:


> I think it ended in the morning but yeah, yesterday. Were you also bidding on it? :O



No, I've already got a pair, but I was keeping tabs on it in case it went low.


----------



## Wes S

heliosphann said:


> No, I've already got a pair, but I was keeping tabs on it in case it went low.


Me too.  Congrats on a really nice looking pair!  I was going to bid on those, but scored a Bendix 6080wb slotted plate, instead.


----------



## Phantaminum

Wes S said:


> Me too.  Congrats on a really nice looking pair!  I was going to bid on those, but scored a Bendix 6080wb slotted plate, instead.



The Bendix are great tubes. You're going to enjoy them.



heliosphann said:


> No, I've already got a pair, but I was keeping tabs on it in case it went low.



I was hoping that the pair would stay low (around $150 - $ 175) for me to scoop up. I've been looking for a pair for awhile and just decided to put my limit and see where it went. I would love to hear comparisons on the 6AS7 vs the 6080.


----------



## heliosphann

Phantaminum said:


> The Bendix are great tubes. You're going to enjoy them.
> 
> 
> 
> I was hoping that the pair would stay low (around $150 - $ 175) for me to scoop up. I've been looking for a pair for awhile and just decided to put my limit and see where it went. I would love to hear comparisons on the 6AS7 vs the 6080.



I think I have a line on a pair of 6AS7G's, so hopefully I will be able to do a comparison down the line.


----------



## mordy

The GEC 6080 is a top tier tube and very nice. It sounds different than the GEC 6AS7, but I would have to listen again to describe the differences as I hear them. I am sure that there are people here who have both and a better memory than me.


----------



## wazzupi

Monsterzero said:


> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHcgqSa16WqaAjwUYoE3eZlSfmaSluQFVYqY1pry-NI/edit#gid=0


This is awesome thank you


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 17, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> The Bendix are great tubes. You're going to enjoy them.
> 
> 
> 
> I was hoping that the pair would stay low (around $150 - $ 175) for me to scoop up. I've been looking for a pair for awhile and just decided to put my limit and see where it went. I would love to hear comparisons on the 6AS7 vs the 6080.



I think you paid a fair price, my Marconi pair was 200 GBP, seems to be market value these days.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> I think you paid a fair price, my Marconi pair was 200 GBP, seems to be market value these days.


For GEC 6as7g that's a great price. The 6080 is not even close to it. I prefer Bendix 6080 to the GEC 6080.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> The factory order price is $1500 for a matched pair. Two single tubes are $1400. They list a dealer in Melbourne as well.
> But you must pre-order and the waiting time is unclear.
> By doing some reading I discovered that there was a previous reissue ending around 2007(?). Maybe the tubes advertised are from that batch?



You need to read again. These are hot off the press. They aren't giving you 2007 reissue.

_We are committed to meeting renewed demand for the 300-B. But due to high demand and limited availability, Western Electric cannot guarantee your order will ship within 30 days. Exact time of delivery is based on a first-in, first-out allocation system *and a scheduled ramp in production at the Rossville Works. *You will always be provided with up-to-date information regarding the status of your order._


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> While I love 6AS7 equivalent power tubes (large and spacious sound stage), *I love how tight and quick the 6080s sound*.



That's a good summary of the GEC 6as7g and GEC 6080. The former lush and full body tone while the latter is tight, quick and precise.


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> It's 24kg 'dry'. Beast of a thing. If I ever have to ship it again (when I return to Oz someday) I will get a packing create built to ship it in.
> 
> I used to have an 845 based power amp. That thing was 42kg 'dry'. Lifting that around was not much fun for my middle aged spine.
> 
> ...



24 kgs is peanuts compared to my 33 kgs Sansui au-alpha 907MR. That almost kill me lifting it out of the boot of my car. 

I won't be skimping on tubes with the 300b amp. I believe in quality over quantity. So Tony, why don't you come back and talk to me again about the 300b amp. Explain to me why you think hexfred is the way to go with the 300b amp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> For GEC 6as7g that's a great price. The 6080 is not even close to it. I prefer Bendix 6080 to the GEC 6080.



The gap is not that large IMO, and I prefer the GEC to the Bendix, I can't say if it holds true in the GOTL.  Just goes to show we all have different ears


----------



## Wes S

Phantaminum said:


> The Bendix are great tubes. You're going to enjoy them.
> 
> 
> 
> I was hoping that the pair would stay low (around $150 - $ 175) for me to scoop up. I've been looking for a pair for awhile and just decided to put my limit and see where it went. I would love to hear comparisons on the 6AS7 vs the 6080.


Unfortunately my Bendix 6080wb slotted plate, was noisy, so it is getting returned, but it did sound amazing. 

If anyone has a spare Bendix 6080wb slotted plate, and wants to make some cash, please shoot me a pm.


----------



## leftside

Wes S said:


> Unfortunately my Bendix 6080wb slotted plate, was noisy, so it is getting returned, but it did sound amazing.


Did you give them 30+ mins to settle down? Mine were noisy when I first used them, but now they are dead silent - and this is even with high sensitivity headphones (if there is any tube noise - then these headphones will hear it)


----------



## Wes S

leftside said:


> Did you give them 30+ mins to settle down? Mine were noisy when I first used them, but now they are dead silent - and this is even with high sensitivity headphones (if there is any tube noise - then these headphones will hear it)


I freaked out, when it flashed blue on startup, and then it was noisy.  I did give it over an hour to settle down, and still heard the hum.  Is it normal for them to flash blue on startup?  I actually just dropped it off, at the post office, for a return, so will have to find another one anyway.


----------



## leftside

Wes S said:


> I freaked out, when it flashed blue on startup, and then it was noisy.  I did give it over an hour to settle down, and still heard the hum.  Is it normal for them to flash blue on startup?  I actually just dropped it off, at the post office, for a return, so will have to find another one anyway.


I don't think it's normal for power tubes to flash on startup.


----------



## Monsterzero

Wes S said:


> Unfortunately my Bendix 6080wb slotted plate, was noisy, so it is getting returned, but it did sound amazing.
> 
> If anyone has a spare Bendix 6080wb slotted plate, and wants to make some cash, please shoot me a pm.



That sucks. Might hit up Stavros to see if he has any Bendix remaining,though I think he said I got his last pair.
Received them yesterday. Dead quiet,and great sound.
I've been lusting after a pair since way back in my La Figaro 339 days,when @UntilThen would school me on great tubes.
Thanks @rosgr63


----------



## Wes S

leftside said:


> I don't think it's normal for power tubes to flash on startup.


Thanks for that!  Now I am glad, I returned it.


----------



## rosgr63

You are most welcome and thanks for helping me out with my other crazy hobby!

I do have another pair not matched but excellent.
A good friend is going to have a look at some photos and decide.
If he doesn't go ahead I'll let you know.


----------



## attmci (Jun 18, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> The gap is not that large IMO, and I prefer the GEC to the Bendix, I can't say if it holds true in the GOTL.  Just goes to show we all have different ears


More important, different amps/DACs/headphones and personal preference. It's also unfair to compare NIB/NOS tubes to used ones. The measurements some times are useless to my ears.

 I will do my best to keep silence in the future.


----------



## Wes S

rosgr63 said:


> You are most welcome and thanks for helping me out with my other crazy hobby!
> 
> I do have another pair not matched but excellent.
> A good friend is going to have a look at some photos and decide.
> If he doesn't go ahead I'll let you know.


Hey there Stavros!  I appreciate it!


----------



## Phantaminum

Wes S said:


> I freaked out, when it flashed blue on startup, and then it was noisy.  I did give it over an hour to settle down, and still heard the hum.  Is it normal for them to flash blue on startup?  I actually just dropped it off, at the post office, for a return, so will have to find another one anyway.



My Bendix 6080s don’t flash blue but it’s possible. On the other hand there’s no noise or any hum after 5 minutes.

Good that you returned them. Better safe than sorry.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> More important, different amps/DACs/headphones and personal preference. It's also unfair to compare NIB/NOS tubes to used ones. The measurements some times are useless to my ears.
> 
> I will do my best to keep silence in the future.


Hi attmci,
Agree with you that the sound of a given tube is amp dependent and that a new tube may sound different compared to the same tube burnt in. However, IMHO certain tubes sound good in many different setups and can generally be recommended. And of course, people have different ears and taste, but surprisingly, I have come to the conclusion that despite all the above, some tubes appeal to many people.
No reason to be silent - this is a friendly site and sincere contributions are always appreciated.


----------



## mordy

Two tubes came up for sale that may be of interest. I have both and they are very good drivers. The first one is a NU 6N7GT/T:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153532267736?ul_noapp=true
The second one is a Mazda 6N7G:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153532267682?ul_noapp=true
The same seller also has a pair of the NU 6N7GT but higher priced.
IMHO the NU is a real sleeper and just as good as the Visseux 6N7GT.


----------



## leftside

Phantaminum said:


> My Bendix 6080s don’t flash blue but it’s possible. On the other hand there’s no noise or any hum after 5 minutes.
> 
> Good that you returned them. Better safe than sorry.


I did a quick search, and some people say power tubes most definitely shouldn't flash on startup (but with rectifiers and drivers it's ok if they do), and others say it's fine if power tubes do flash, so who knows. Maybe others on here will know for sure. But, if the tube was still noisy after an hour then it's definitely for the best it was sent back.


----------



## Wes S

leftside said:


> I did a quick search, and some people say power tubes most definitely shouldn't flash on startup (but with rectifiers and drivers it's ok if they do), and others say it's fine if power tubes do flash, so who knows. Maybe others on here will know for sure. But, if the tube was still noisy after an hour then it's definitely for the best it was sent back.


Thanks!


----------



## mordy

Some tubes were designed to flash up when starting - a quick heat feature. The first time it happened with my ECC31 I got really scared and threw myself on the amp's off switch! Then I discovered that it is a design feature in certain tubes.
So far I only have two such tubes, a very old Mullard ECC31 and an Ei 6HM5. Don't know if power tubes were designed with this feature.
BTW, I saw pictures on JACMusic from the now defunct Yugoslavian Ei factory. Their tubes were made on Philips equipment and JAC claims that they are of very high quality.


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 18, 2019)

I had a filament in one of my 5998 tubes burn out this morning....no damage done...no pop or anything, just lost sound in the left channel.

I will try putting a soldering iron on the pins tonight...but I believe it to be toast


----------



## UntilThen

rosgr63 said:


> You are most welcome and thanks for helping me out with my other crazy hobby!



What is that other crazy hobby?


----------



## Wes S

UntilThen said:


> What is that other crazy hobby?


I am curious too!  Could it be fish tanks?


----------



## Wes S

whirlwind said:


> I had a filament in one of my 5998 tubes burn out this morning....no damage done...no pop or anything, just lost sound in the left channel.
> 
> I will try putting a soldering iron on the pins tonight...but I believe it to be toast


Bummer!  Sorry to hear that!


----------



## 2359glenn

Wes S said:


> I freaked out, when it flashed blue on startup, and then it was noisy.  I did give it over an hour to settle down, and still heard the hum.  Is it normal for them to flash blue on startup?  I actually just dropped it off, at the post office, for a return, so will have to find another one anyway.



Was it instantaneous before the filament wormed up and pinkish blue? if so the tube is gassy and get rid of it.
Don't let it run to burn it in just get rid of it.


----------



## mordy

Changed some light bulbs in my listening room and must have moved something - only sound on one channel. I am sure you know that feeling: Frustration, despair, worry (did I blow up my amp?).
Next is to find out where the problem is - troubleshooting all the connections, one by one. Try a different music source. Beginning to sweat - nope.
The speakers? No. OK - go to headphones; nope, one channel still.
To make long story short - I bypassed a switchbox for different input sources and everything is back to normal. Deep sigh of relief....
Went to YouTube to test that that I got R and L channel correct - I aced the 50% chance!
Then I saw a hearing test: How old are your ears? Was thinking of somebody here who speaks about his old tired ears...
Anyhow, I did the test. You could try it - doesn't take long:
In my next post I will reveal my hearing age....


----------



## Mizicke5273

2359glenn said:


> Was it instantaneous before the filament wormed up and pinkish blue? if so the tube is gassy and get rid of it.
> Don't let it run to burn it in just get rid of it.




I have a Mullard or Thomson, I forget which brand at the moment, 6080 that flashes bright yellowish when powered on.  It would last a few seconds and then no issues afterwards.  I have it set aside and marked.  Any idea if that tube is safe??


----------



## 2359glenn

Yellowish??Are you sure it is not pinkish if it is pinkish it is gassy.


----------



## Mizicke5273

Here is a link to a video I uploaded to YouTube:


----------



## mordy (Jun 18, 2019)

Hi M73,
It is a Mullard tube and it is a quick heating up feature that is the same as is in my Mullard ECC31. It may look scary, but it is nothing to worry about - the tube is functioning properly.
You will notice that it only happens when the tube is cold. If you use the tube for a while and then shut off the amp and turn it on within a couple of minutes (before the tube cools down) it will not flash when powering on.


----------



## Monsterzero

Wes S said:


> I am curious too!  Could it be fish tanks?


Nope,though I will certainly try to help anyone out along those lines too.
I will let Stavros divulge the details if he so chooses.


----------



## Mizicke5273

Thanks for confirming.  I took that video a few months back and just never got around to asking about it on here.  Figured today was as good as any to ask.


----------



## Wes S

2359glenn said:


> Was it instantaneous before the filament wormed up and pinkish blue? if so the tube is gassy and get rid of it.
> Don't let it run to burn it in just get rid of it.


Thanks for the info!  The tube is already in the mail, on it's way back to the seller.


----------



## mordy

Mizicke5273 said:


> Thanks for confirming.  I took that video a few months back and just never got around to asking about it on here.  Figured today was as good as any to ask.


In the past I wanted to take a video of the ECC31 flashing up when starting, but your video saved me the work lol.....


----------



## attmci (Jun 18, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> Agree with you that the sound of a given tube is amp dependent and that a new tube may sound different compared to the same tube burnt in. However, IMHO certain tubes sound good in many different setups and can generally be recommended. And of course, people have different ears and taste, but surprisingly, I have come to the conclusion that despite all the above, some tubes appeal to many people.
> No reason to be silent - this is a friendly site and sincere contributions are always appreciated.


Thanks, Mordy.

I mean I will give it my best to avoid in saying tube B sounds better than tube A.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Thanks, Mordy.
> 
> I mean I will give it my best to avoid in saying tube B sounds better than tube A.


Hi attmci,
Why avoid it - others can benefit from your findings. I think that the best way to say it is something like "in my Rolling Dream XXL amp the Millarde XR71 paired with a quad of Nuvistor 6CW4 is flying high or supersonic" or something like that, if you get the gist, lol. YMMV.


----------



## rosgr63

Monsterzero said:


> Nope,though I will certainly try to help anyone out along those lines too.
> I will let Stavros divulge the details if he so chooses.



Good morning,

Please don't tell yet, you are my angel and saviour in this!!!!!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Good morning,
> 
> Please don't tell yet, you are my angel and saviour in this!!!!!!!!




I have no idea what your new hobby is....but I feel good that I contributed to it


----------



## heliosphann

_And the tubes they glowed with radiant fury, unleashing an unparalleled sonic barrage of bliss._

THE GOTL HAS LANDED.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> _And the tubes they glowed with radiant fury, unleashing an unparalleled sonic barrage of bliss._
> 
> THE GOTL HAS LANDED.



Congrats dude!


----------



## leftside

heliosphann said:


> _And the tubes they glowed with radiant fury, unleashing an unparalleled sonic barrage of bliss._
> 
> THE GOTL HAS LANDED.


Congrats!


----------



## Zachik

heliosphann said:


> _And the tubes they glowed with radiant fury, unleashing an unparalleled sonic barrage of bliss._
> 
> THE GOTL HAS LANDED.


Congrats! Now, lock your wallet, or kiss you money goodbye...


----------



## heliosphann

Zachik said:


> Congrats! Now, lock your wallet, or kiss you money goodbye...



It's almost all gone... I've already spent a ton of money on tubes just waiting for it to arrive!!!

Got a few more tubes I'm chasing and I'll probably be set. Mostly...


----------



## Zachik

heliosphann said:


> Got a few more tubes I'm chasing and I'll probably be set. Mostly...


Famous last audiophile's words


----------



## Phantaminum

heliosphann said:


> _And the tubes they glowed with radiant fury, unleashing an unparalleled sonic barrage of bliss._
> 
> THE GOTL HAS LANDED.



Congrats! You’re in for a good time.


----------



## mordy

heliosphann said:


> _And the tubes they glowed with radiant fury, unleashing an unparalleled sonic barrage of bliss._
> 
> THE GOTL HAS LANDED.
> Hi heliosphann,
> ...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Money can't buy happiness,  but it can buy...more tubes.


----------



## rnros

heliosphann said:


> _And the tubes they glowed with radiant fury, unleashing an unparalleled sonic barrage of bliss._
> 
> THE GOTL HAS LANDED.



Congrats! Will be looking forward to your impressions of the GOTL with ALL of those tubes... 
Enjoy.


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> _And the tubes they glowed with radiant fury, unleashing an unparalleled sonic barrage of bliss._
> 
> THE GOTL HAS LANDED.




Congrats....enjoy.


----------



## Monsterzero

Anyone tried the Sofia 6SN7? Some say its bright,others say that goes away after awhile. Have a line on a pair for cheap. Thoughts?


----------



## mordy (Jun 20, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Anyone tried the Sofia 6SN7? Some say its bright,others say that goes away after awhile. Have a line on a pair for cheap. Thoughts?


These Chinese tubes always make me suspicious because of the marketing involved. It appears to me that the same tube is sold at many different price points with increasingly fancy artwork, colors and boxes (and warranties).
Look at the price sheet for the Blue Glass Sophia 6SN7 equivalent; click on the down arrow in the Options box:
https://sophiaelectric.com/collections/input-driver-tubes/products/pages-se-new-6sn7
You can pay $100 or $200 for the same tube. The difference is an A B C grading and choosing 30 day or one year warranty.
All other reputable manufacturers would reject inferior stock and only sell one grade. The only manufacturer that would select the top 10% was Siemens with the C3g - the C3gS. (However, the S was handwritten on the box with a marker.....)


----------



## mordy

There is a British seller that has 2 pairs and one single GEC 6AS7G/A1834 for sale.
They measure on average 26mA (pair), 28mA (pair) and 35mA (single). 
Upon my request he answered that 35mA is minimum good and 40mA NOS.
Are the first two pairs usable at all?


----------



## Wes S (Jun 20, 2019)

mordy said:


> There is a British seller that has 2 pairs and one single GEC 6AS7G/A1834 for sale.
> They measure on average 26mA (pair), 28mA (pair) and 35mA (single).
> Upon my request he answered that 35mA is minimum good and 40mA NOS.
> Are the first two pairs usable at all?


I have bought some 6922 tubes, from that guy before, and they were good, but I don't know and am curious on those, too.  The single also, has a white ring above the getter flash, that he says is ok, but is concerning.


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 20, 2019)

mordy said:


> These Chinese tubes always make me suspicious because of the marketing involved. It appears to me that the same tube is sold at many different price points with increasingly fancy artwork, colors and boxes (and warranties).
> Look at the price sheet for the Blue Glass Sophia 6SN7 equivalent; click on the down arrow in the Options box:
> https://sophiaelectric.com/collections/input-driver-tubes/products/pages-se-new-6sn7
> You can pay $100 or $200 for the same tube. The difference is an A B C grading and choosing 30 day or one year warranty.
> All other reputable manufacturers would reject inferior stock and only sell one grade. The only manufacturer that would select the top 10% was Siemens with the C3g - the C3gS. (However, the S was handwritten on the box with a marker.....)




Hi mordy,

The C3g/s were suppose to be the top few percent, I have a couple pairs, except my tubes have the s on the top of the tubes. These indeed are Siemens.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> There is a British seller that has 2 pairs and one single GEC 6AS7G/A1834 for sale.
> They measure on average 26mA (pair), 28mA (pair) and 35mA (single).
> Upon my request he answered that 35mA is minimum good and 40mA NOS.
> Are the first two pairs usable at all?


I asked the same question, and I won't be bidding. I'm quite happy with tubes that test at 70% - 80% NOS, but not below. The fact that he doesn't say what his tube tester specifies as "minimum good" (unless you ask) is not a good sign... 

The single should be fine, but I wouldn't be sure how long the two pairs will last.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> These Chinese tubes always make me suspicious because of the marketing involved. It appears to me that the same tube is sold at many different price points with increasingly fancy artwork, colors and boxes (and warranties).
> Look at the price sheet for the Blue Glass Sophia 6SN7 equivalent; click on the down arrow in the Options box:
> https://sophiaelectric.com/collections/input-driver-tubes/products/pages-se-new-6sn7
> You can pay $100 or $200 for the same tube. The difference is an A B C grading and choosing 30 day or one year warranty.
> All other reputable manufacturers would reject inferior stock and only sell one grade. The only manufacturer that would select the top 10% was Siemens with the C3g - the C3gS. (However, the S was handwritten on the box with a marker.....)



I hear you on the tube pricing for the Sophia’s. I still want to try out those lightbulb looking tubes from Psvane. I love the way they look and people say they enjoy their sound but I’d prefer the reliability of other tubes (Chinese tubes are quite suspect to me) and the pricing is a bit too much imho.

http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/sto...lobe-6sn7-se-pair-gf-limited-special-edition/


----------



## m17xr2b

mordy said:


> There is a British seller that has 2 pairs and one single GEC 6AS7G/A1834 for sale.
> They measure on average 26mA (pair), 28mA (pair) and 35mA (single).
> Upon my request he answered that 35mA is minimum good and 40mA NOS.
> Are the first two pairs usable at all?


It depends very much on the testing conditions. Standard is to use 100V plate with -30V grid and 100mA is new value with under 60mA reject. Now if you tweak the voltages you can have a scenario where 40mA is the new value as the tube will output based on the input. Very fishy in this case, I'd stay way.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

@mordy how do you like your Heerlen-made E180CC in the GOTL?  Wondering if it is worth giving some of these tubes a try, can be had a very reasonable prices.  Similar gain to the C3g (46 vs 41).


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> I hear you on the tube pricing for the Sophia’s. I still want to try out those lightbulb looking tubes from Psvane. I love the way they look and people say they enjoy their sound but I’d prefer the reliability of other tubes (Chinese tubes are quite suspect to me) and the pricing is a bit too much imho.
> 
> http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/sto...lobe-6sn7-se-pair-gf-limited-special-edition/


Hi Phantaminum,
Looked at the globe shaped Chinese tubes and read a long winded and curious review
https://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_globe_6sn7_e.html
which only reinforced my impression of these Chinese manufacturers concentrating on looks and hype.
The reviewer summed it up by saying: "If you already own great NOS _6SN7_ valves, and there are other areas where your system needs improvement, the money would be better spent there." These sell for $375/pair.
They are said to be co-developed by a Canadian distributor called Grant Fidelity. Reading through their material in the past they stated that other eBay sellers that sell the same tubes cheaper are selling inferior stock.
The failure rate of these Globe tubes must be astronomical since they say that "In order to ensure this Special Edition globe shape 6SN7 to be of the best possible quality, we actually throw away over 50% of all finished production tubes not to compromise on final quality."


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Hi mordy,
> 
> The C3g/s were suppose to be the top few percent, I have a couple pairs, except my tubes have the s on the top of the tubes. These indeed are Siemens.


This sounds more authentic than a handwritten S on the Siemens box. Thanks to my powers of imagination I thought that the S sounded a tiny bit better than the regular ones....


----------



## mordy (Jun 20, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> @mordy how do you like your Heerlen-made E180CC in the GOTL?  Wondering if it is worth giving some of these tubes a try, can be had a very reasonable prices.  Similar gain to the C3g (46 vs 41).


Would have to dig it out to try. ATM I am enamoured by the sound of the 1955 RCA 12SX7. I really should check out how it compares with my 1943 RCA 1633.
But you asked....
OK, found the E180CC in the fifth shoebox, in the left pile, but I digress....
This tube I acquired courtesy of Phantaminum. My notes say: TOPVAC RADIO TUBE E180CC, Philips Herleen August 1966.



On first impression sounds fine, but in comparison with the 12SX7 it does not have the full low end grunt and while the treble might have a tad more detail, it is thinner sounding and brighter. Also higher gain but very quiet. On the other hand it could be that the tube is new and may have better synergy with other tubes than what I am using. YMMV.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Would have to dig it out to try. ATM I am enamoured by the sound of the 1955 RCA 12SX7. I really should check out how it compares with my 1943 RCA 1633.
> But you asked....
> OK, found the E180CC in the fifth shoebox, in the left pile, but I digress....
> This tube I acquired courtesy of Phantaminum. My notes say: TOPVAC RADIO TUBE E180CC, Philips Herleen August 1966.
> ...



Thanks for digging it out, Mordy, I appreciate it.  I may pick up a cheap single and see if I like the character.  Seems it is used often as a 12AT7 substitute, but with the lower gain, maybe more usable in the GOTL than the 12AT7.  Then again, there are so many other driver options...oh boy.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> I hear you on the tube pricing for the Sophia’s. I still want to try out those lightbulb looking tubes from Psvane. I love the way they look and people say they enjoy their sound but I’d prefer the reliability of other tubes (Chinese tubes are quite suspect to me) and the pricing is a bit too much imho.
> 
> http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/sto...lobe-6sn7-se-pair-gf-limited-special-edition/



$375 for a pair a bit much for Chinese 6SN7s even though they look cool. Probably sound so so at best.


----------



## Wes S

Monsterzero said:


> That sucks. Might hit up Stavros to see if he has any Bendix remaining,though I think he said I got his last pair.
> Received them yesterday. Dead quiet,and great sound.
> I've been lusting after a pair since way back in my La Figaro 339 days,when @UntilThen would school me on great tubes.
> Thanks @rosgr63


Well, my good friend Stavros, hooked it up again!  I will have a Bendix 6080wb, soon.  Thanks Stavros!  Thanks Monster, for the suggestion!

Happy Friday!


----------



## Monsterzero

Theres a used pair,clear glass,not blue,for $110.00. However after reading the comments here regarding them selling B Grade tubes,I will pass.


----------



## mordy

Personally, I doubt the 30% ratings for those tubes - I think that they are just playing on people's emotions.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

wazzupi said:


> I have those  i wish i could find a reputable dealer who can sell me no noise 6bx7s


I hear ya man... if you find a good place let me know too? The ones I have are noisy and totally bum me out. Can’t get into the music  because I focus too much on that noise.

I’m tempted to try out that Florida tube place the one guy mentioned...


Phantaminum said:


> Finally won a pair of GEC 6080s. While I love 6AS7 equivalent power tubes (large and spacious sound stage), I love how tight and quick the 6080s sound. As much as I wanted a pair of GEC 6AS7s, I’ll settle on the cheaper variant.
> 
> Time to put a lock on my bank account.


I love my Chatham 6as7’s, so I would love to hear some 6as7 GEC’s!

Anyone know why it seems that all GEC variants are such good tubes? What’s the story on them?

Oh! I also forgot to mention and this may sound stupid- but when should I clean my tube pins? What are some signs that I should clean them?


----------



## Phantaminum

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> I hear ya man... if you find a good place let me know too? The ones I have are noisy and totally bum me out. Can’t get into the music  because I focus too much on that noise.
> 
> I’m tempted to try out that Florida tube place the one guy mentioned...
> 
> ...



If you have warmer headphones do really try the Tung Sol/Chatham 7236s. They may not have as wide a sound stage as the 6AS7 but they’re becoming one of my favorite (and cheap) go to tubes. Great tone and timbre. Just not the TOTL separation that come with the expensive tubes. The driver tube can handle that job. 

They pair well with the Verite/HD650 but were a little too bright with the Auteur.

Agreed on the GECs as some of the most beautiful sounding tubes out there.


----------



## mordy (Jun 21, 2019)

I always check the tube pins when I get new tubes. Unless they look absolutely shiny and pristine, I give them a once over with a little pen knife, gently scraping each pin all around it. Very often there is oxidation and grime, especially on very old tubes.
After that, the only time I would check again is if the sound degrades - crackling etc which could happen sometimes.
And speaking of old tubes (and more so with European tubes in my experience) brush on a little super glue around the base of anode caps if the tube has them, and brushing in a little superglue inside the base where it meets the glass to avoid a loose base.


----------



## heliosphann

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> I hear ya man... if you find a good place let me know too? The ones I have are noisy and totally bum me out. Can’t get into the music  because I focus too much on that noise.
> 
> I’m tempted to try out that Florida tube place the one guy mentioned...
> 
> ...



Hit Jim up at http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com. He hooked me up with a set of same production 6BX7s and 6BL7's. Haven't tried them yet, but I will this weekend.


----------



## Wes S

heliosphann said:


> Hit Jim up at http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com. He hooked me up with a set of same production 6BX7s and 6BL7's. Haven't tried them yet, but I will this weekend.


I have had great success, with that company.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

heliosphann said:


> Hit Jim up at http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com. He hooked me up with a set of same production 6BX7s and 6BL7's. Haven't tried them yet, but I will this weekend.


Word!

Please keep us posted? And thanks for the link


----------



## gibosi

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> when should I clean my tube pins? What are some signs that I should clean them?



Like Mordy, I clean the pins of every tube I buy before it goes into the amp, even if they look pristine. I use 220 grit sandpaper with octals.


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Hit Jim up at http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com. He hooked me up with a set of same production 6BX7s and 6BL7's. Haven't tried them yet, but I will this weekend.



There prices are not bad. Will have to save this link.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 21, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Hit Jim up at http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com. He hooked me up with a set of same production 6BX7s and 6BL7's. Haven't tried them yet, but I will this weekend.



This is where I bought most of my 6BX7/6BL7.  Jim the owner told me he had 400 or so 6BL7s and 200 6BX7s of various makes.


----------



## 2359glenn

The 6BX7 is the better tube it has lower gain and don't amplify any noise from the driver tube as much as a 6BL7 will.
They sound similar the 6BX7 and 6BL7.  I always liked these tubes.
When I was 12 I built a push pull amp that was a 6SL7 preamp/phase inverter to a 6SN7 dual driver to a 6BL7 output it put out 11 watts.
Still have it though I haven't turned it on in a long time.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> When I was 12 I built a push pull amp that was a 6SL7 preamp/phase inverter to a 6SN7 dual driver to a 6BL7 output it put out 11 watts.



When I was 12 I was playing with my GI Joes and Hot Wheels. Guess that why this thread isnt called Darren Studio. :/


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Monsterzero said:


> When I was 12 I was playing with my GI Joes and Hot Wheels. Guess that why this thread isnt called Darren Studio. :/


This made me laugh like “ha!” That I now have spit on my phone from it...Thanks a lot!

@gibosi thanks for the sandpaper tip. I threw  the 220 grit in my amazon shopping cart since I already had stuff in there already. Excited to sand my pins when it gets here! (Only a true Audiophile could get excited over something so dumb btw)


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> When I was 12 I was playing with my GI Joes and Hot Wheels. Guess that why this thread isnt called Darren Studio. :/



I did that too


----------



## gibosi

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> This made me laugh like “ha!” That I now have spit on my phone from it...Thanks a lot!
> 
> @gibosi thanks for the sandpaper tip. I threw  the 220 grit in my amazon shopping cart since I already had stuff in there already. Excited to sand my pins when it gets here! (Only a true Audiophile could get excited over something so dumb btw)



A number of years ago I picked up a pair of GEC 6AS7G cheap, and was so excited to find out what I had bought that I put them into the amp without cleaning the pins. Well, they looked clean. And boy were these tubes noisy. So I thoroughly sanded the pins and tried again. Quiet.


----------



## whirlwind

Good Saturday morning to everyone.
Starting the morning off with GEL3N, LCD-3 and the new Kenny Wayne Shepherd album.
Highly recommend the album for blues/rock fans.


  

Just secured tickets for my wife and I  for august 27th show at Louisville Kentucky....Buddy Guy/Kenny Wayne Shepherd Band



Have a great day everyone.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Got home from vacation late last night, picked up my welcome home present from the post office today, GOTL tube packages from Taiwan, Japan, and Germany  hope you guys don't mind me sharing, can't give GOTL impressions yet.  This is about as close to waking up on Christmas morning as it gets in my adult life, maybe I should be asking for tubes for Christmas...

Some GOTL specific tubes, these will make very pretty paperweights for the time being since I cannot use them in my amp, Visseaux 6N7GT, Mullard EL32.  Adapters from Deyan incoming.
 

NOS sextet of Toshiba 6BX7GT and four of the eight NOS Fivre 6BX7GT I have on the way.  Popped these into my BH amp, if it is any indication, they are both very good sounding, but noticeably different.
  

Some Japanese 6AS7 tubes, Toshiba 6080 and Nippon Electric 6AS7G, Western Electric's Japanese subsidiary.  First impressions, the Toshiba's are nothing special, but the NEC tubes...they could be real sleepers...both need burn-in.
 

Also have a few new 6SN7s, but they are old news for you folks.  Hope everyone is enjoying their Saturday!


----------



## leftside

Purchased the best upgrade for my music system for the summer:


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> Purchased the best upgrade for my music system for the summer:



This is a great idea.  I work rotating shifts, these are handy for sleeping during the day, could use a nicer one anyhow


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Got home from vacation late last night, picked up my welcome home present from the post office today, GOTL tube packages from Taiwan, Japan, and Germany  hope you guys don't mind me sharing, can't give GOTL impressions yet.  This is about as close to waking up on Christmas morning as it gets in my adult life, maybe I should be asking for tubes for Christmas...
> 
> Some GOTL specific tubes, these will make very pretty paperweights for the time being since I cannot use them in my amp, Visseaux 6N7GT, Mullard EL32.  Adapters from Deyan incoming.
> 
> ...



Nice tubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Were did you get those Nippon 6AS7s?   I bet they are almost as good s a GEC.
I have a Japanese 6SN7 and it is the quietest 6SN7 I have.  I use it to test new amps to make sure the amp is noise free.


----------



## mordy

I have a quad of Channel Master rebranded Japanese 6SN7GTB that sound very good. By comparing pictures on Google Images I found out that they were made by NEC (Nippon Electric Co).


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 25, 2019)

Kudos goes out to Stavros  again.  Thanks much Stavros, they has arrived safely and I will test the Mullard/Cossor 53KU this evening.







Sorry about the spelling error on your name Stavros.....I have corrected it.


----------



## mordy

Got an itch to buy a Tung Sol BGRP 12SL7 for $13 shipped (still available):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1952-T...ALANCED-Black-Plate-Smoked-Glass/123793157889
I only have a couple of 12SL7 tubes (GE - sound good) but decided to check first if maybe I already have some 6SL7 tubes. Found a box that I haven't touched for years from my Little Dot days with not less than a dozen tubes! All bought used at low prices some years back. Guess what I found?
5 TS, three of them BGRP. One is WW2 VT-229 tube with a date code 28 - August 1942?
2 National Union, gray glass (1947) and clear glass
3 Sylvania chrome top 6SL7GT and 6SL7WGT. One is labeled Crosley from 1950
2 Russian tubes, one a 6H9C Reflektor and one without markings except for the OTK1 inspection stamp.
So far I listened to the TS VT-229 and the NU gray glass. 
Need more time, but the NU sounds very good. Another advantage of used tubes is that presumably they are broken in. Some have test results written on them, but without a reference value I don't know what those numbers mean. 
Looks like the 6SL7 is a good match for the GOTL as a driver.


----------



## whirlwind

Even without much listening to the Mullard/Cossor 53KU, I can say that it is my favorite sounding rectifier to date.

I have not heard the WE422A yet, but this is fantastic....even better than the GEC U18/20 to my ears.

Gobsmacked.


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> Kudos goes out to Stavros  again.  Thanks much Stavros, they has arrived safely and I will test the Mullard/Cossor 53KU this evening.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are most welcome Joe, thanks for buying my tubes, I hope they bring you lots of listening pleasure.

Greek names are very difficult I know.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Nice tubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Were did you get those Nippon 6AS7s?   I bet they are almost as good s a GEC.
> I have a Japanese 6SN7 and it is the quietest 6SN7 I have.  I use it to test new amps to make sure the amp is noise free.



The Japanese 6SN7 and 6SL7 are amongst my favourites my collection includes NEC, Hitachi, Channel Master, Toshiba, Raytheon.


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> Even without much listening to the Mullard/Cossor 53KU, I can say that it is my favorite sounding rectifier to date.
> 
> I have not heard the WE422A yet, but this is fantastic....even better than the GEC U18/20 to my ears.
> 
> Gobsmacked.



I'm pleased you like it I thought you would.


----------



## Wes S

I just want to give a big shout out, to our friend Stavros!  I am sure quite a few of us, have gotten some very nice tubes from him, and would not be able to find them so nice, anywhere else.  Also, he is such a pleasure to deal with!

Thanks Stavros!


----------



## mordy

Wes S said:


> I just want to give a big shout out, to our friend Stavros!  I am sure quite a few of us, have gotten some very nice tubes from him, and would not be able to find them so nice, anywhere else.  Also, he is such a pleasure to deal with!
> 
> Thanks Stavros!


I got my GEC 6AS7, Bendix 6080WB and TS 5998 from Stavros.
Beautiful tubes, and came packed like the British Crown Jewels.


----------



## rosgr63

Wes S said:


> I just want to give a big shout out, to our friend Stavros!  I am sure quite a few of us, have gotten some very nice tubes from him, and would not be able to find them so nice, anywhere else.  Also, he is such a pleasure to deal with!
> 
> Thanks Stavros!



I would like to thank you for your kind words, I'm moved.
You are very polite and we have become friends even though we are so far apart.

This hobby has a magic and brought many of us together.
From Vancouver to Ontario to Washington to California to Texas to North Carolina, to Florida to New Jersey to New York to Maine to Ohio to Pennsylvania to Dakota to Minnesota and Arizona.
From America to all over Europe to UAE to India to Singapore to Thailand to Indonesia to Australia to China to Korea and Japan.

Nothing pleases me more than making my head-fi friends happy.
My tubes are finding loving homes, and my friends are enjoying the music.
I couldn't ask for more.

*Thank you all from the bottom of my heart.*



mordy said:


> I got my GEC 6AS7, Bendix 6080WB and TS 5998 from Stavros.
> Beautiful tubes, and came packed like the British Crown Jewels.



Thanks for your kind words Mordy.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 25, 2019)

rosgr63 said:


> Greek names are very difficult I know.



Indeed.
Everyone knows how to say it now. Congrats to Giannis on winning MVP!


----------



## rosgr63

Monsterzero said:


> Indeed.
> Everyone knows how to say it now. Congrats to Giannis on winning MVP!




Great player and so are his brothers!


----------



## Monsterzero

rosgr63 said:


> Great player and so are his brothers!



His brothers are having a hard time cracking the NBA. One of his brothers got invited to join the Bucks summer league team. The other plays in the minors for Dallas.

Giannis has been my favorite player for years. Very humble and gracious. When he develops a consistent outside shot,he will be unstoppable.


----------



## rosgr63

Monsterzero said:


> His brothers are having a hard time cracking the NBA. One of his brothers got invited to join the Bucks summer league team. The other plays in the minors for Dallas.
> 
> Giannis has been my favorite player for years. Very humble and gracious. When he develops a consistent outside shot,he will be unstoppable.



Indeed a very nice person who never forgot his friends and family now he's at the top.


----------



## mordy

Today I received a pair of RCA 1950's 12SX7GT tubes. Both of them have two irregular silver colored blotches on top - the other 50's pair I have are clear tops:




Is this normal or cause for concern? Does it mean that the tube is used or new?
Haven't seen this before.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Today I received a pair of RCA 1950's 12SX7GT tubes. Both of them have two irregular silver colored blotches on top - the other 50's pair I have are clear tops:
> 
> Is this normal or cause for concern? Does it mean that the tube is used or new?
> Haven't seen this before.



The single 12SXGT tube I owned had those same blotches. From what I remember is that testing those tubes can lead to this but still measure new or above new. It could also mean that they have been used but unless you have a tube measurement kit you won’t be able to tell.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> His brothers are having a hard time cracking the NBA. One of his brothers got invited to join the Bucks summer league team. The other plays in the minors for Dallas.
> 
> Giannis has been my favorite player for years. Very humble and gracious. When he develops a consistent outside shot,he will be unstoppable.




Giannis is a beast, I like him a lot too.







rosgr63 said:


> I'm pleased you like it I thought you would.



It is a game changer in the GEL3N amp....better than my GEC U18/20 to my ears.
It sounds killer with all of my headphones also.
This is going to be one of my favorite tubes of any kind.
Thanks again.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jun 25, 2019)

mordy said:


> Today I received a pair of RCA 1950's 12SX7GT tubes. Both of them have two irregular silver colored blotches on top - the other 50's pair I have are clear tops:
> 
> Is this normal or cause for concern? Does it mean that the tube is used or new?
> Haven't seen this before.



That usually means the tube is used and has many hours on it. It is caused by the filaments.
But just because it is used doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it.
Most US made 6SN7 type does this you can't notice it in Sylvania's with top gettering


----------



## myphone

Mordy, like others have stated. This is an used tube.

I noticed marks of this size on new 12SX7s as drivers in my Atma-Sphere Amps after 6 months of regular use, 2-3 hours a day. Mark size had not changed much after that.

These tubes functioned fine for many years in the amps. When I changed the tubes after 10 years of use, they Still worked well and were measured about 70-80%.


----------



## mordy (Jun 25, 2019)

Hi Glenn and myphone,
Thanks for the information about the used tubes. The seller wrote that “Original box has been damaged, replace with another shipping box” and it did not occur to me that the tubes are used. IMHO this statement is misleading, but looking over the listing there is nothing said about the condition, but the word "original" seems to indicate that the tube is NOS.
Here is the fine print that I did not see until now:



*

Goods will be Random Shipping

✰Sorry that we don't have equipment to test those tubes.
✰If tubes were useless when received, we can refund payment or resend.

*


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> Giannis is a beast, I like him a lot too.
> 
> 
> BTW Giannis = Yianni (the famous composer) = John
> ...



You are most welcome, thanks for trusting me.


----------



## rosgr63

mordy said:


> Today I received a pair of RCA 1950's 12SX7GT tubes. Both of them have two irregular silver colored blotches on top - the other 50's pair I have are clear tops:
> 
> Is this normal or cause for concern? Does it mean that the tube is used or new?
> Haven't seen this before.



The silvering is the so called anode boil off.
A sign that a tube is used.
Some tubes can get a slight silvering after testing at the factory where they were made.

There is nothing wrong with them.

As long as they are safe without shorts or leakages they will be good to use.


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> The silvering is the so called anode boil off.
> A sign that a tube is used.
> Some tubes can get a slight silvering after testing at the factory where they were made.
> 
> ...






I am about to give this NOS ECC33 some anode boil off....as I have rolled it in my amp.
 

Everyone can trust Stavros if he says a tube is NOS.
I have been interested in some tubes on e-bay where the seller claims they are NOS, but do not provide a picture from the top.
Some have on a request to do so. If a tube test really good, I don't worry much about it, other than NOS tubes have a much better chance of being quiet I think, but who knows, maybe not.

I have pretty much had the same set of RCA 42EC4 in my GOTL since I got it...that has been a few years now and they are still going strong.
I need to check with Glenn to see if he has any RCA ones left....they have been the hardest ones for me to find, and I like the little volcano type glow at the top of the tube better than most other brands.

Tubes last so much longer than what people believe they would.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> I am about to give this NOS ECC33 some anode boil off....as I have rolled it in my amp.
> 
> 
> Everyone can trust Stavros if he says a tube is NOS.
> ...


I think Glenn and myphone mentioned using the same tubes for 10 years.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Off topic question:
> 
> Have you ever compared the sonic differences of the 7802s to the TS 6080s?



Hey Monster, figured I would reply here since it's sort of a GOTL thing.  Sorry for the book you are about to read.

Having listened to them both several times, I could give a vague description of the Tung Sol 6080 vs the 7802, but I haven't done an AB.  I'm happy to though, I have both, I'll see if I have time today or tomorrow.  Right off the bat though, the difference is large when it comes to soundstage, dynamics, resolution. 

They do have a very similar internal construction, only difference I see really is a finer grid on the 7802 and some extra support rods.  Maybe shinier copper on the 7802 grid rods?  I'm splitting hairs HA!

 

One thing to keep in mind, the only circuit I have ever seen the Tung Sol 7802 used in with listening impressions is a cathode-follower OTL, like the Bottlehead Crack, Woo Audio WA3, etc.  In those circuits, the output tube provides near 0 gain no matter its amplification factor, whereas in the GOTL, The 7802 will operate at a gain of 9 and a transconductance of 20,000 and the 6080 at a gain of 2 and a transconductance of 7,000.

From my reading, the higher transconductance of the 7802 vs 6080 in the Crack(atwoa) cathode-follower circuit will have a negligible effect on the output impedance, so I don't think the better sound can be attributed to that, but I'm still not sure if the higher transconductance is contributing in any way to why the tube sounds so good in a cathode follower or if there is another reason.  It's hard to say if comparisons are still 1:1 in the BHC vs GOTL.

I'm very curious myself if it will carry over to the GOTL or not, maybe Glenn can help based on the specs, but I won't know for sure until I have the GOTL!!!  When I do, this will be one of the first output tubes I try.


----------



## whirlwind

Here is a pretty cool find I came across last week while searching for some tubes...thought it was pretty neat, so I bought one and it arrived today.

Not a tube, but tube related, lol.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey Monster, figured I would reply here since it's sort of a GOTL thing.  Sorry for the book you are about to read.
> 
> Having listened to them both several times, I could give a vague description of the Tung Sol 6080 vs the 7802, but I haven't done an AB.  I'm happy to though, I have both, I'll see if I have time today or tomorrow.  Right off the bat though, the difference is large when it comes to soundstage, dynamics, resolution.
> 
> ...


Are both these tubes graphite tubes?
Are the specs different for a regular 6080 and a graphite one?
The 6528A has an amplification factor of 9 and a transconductance of 37.000 and the 6336B of 2.7/13,500 - is that a similar scenario?


----------



## mordy

Educational T-shirt:


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 26, 2019)

mordy said:


> Are both these tubes graphite tubes?
> Are the specs different for a regular 6080 and a graphite one?
> The 6528A has an amplification factor of 9 and a transconductance of 37.000 and the 6336B of 2.7/13,500 - is that a similar scenario?



They are not graphite, although I have seen Tung Sol 7802WB out in the wild with graphite plates, probably one of the rarest 6AS7 tubes in existence.

The 6336B vs 6528A is sort of a similar comparison to the 6080 vs 7802 in terms of their relative specs, but I think there are too many variables to use them as a test case in the GOTL and say the same is true for the 7802, but maybe I am wrong!

Edit: one interesting thing I had not considered is the possibility of running four 7802s, with the transconductance of 20,000 a piece at 2.5A heater current, I wonder where that would put the GOTLs output impedance.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> They are not graphite, although I have seen Tung Sol 7802WB out in the wild with graphite plates, probably one of the rarest 6AS7 tubes in existence.
> 
> The 6336B vs 6528A is sort of a similar comparison to the 6080 vs 7802 in terms of their relative specs, but I think there are too many variables to use them as a test case in the GOTL and say the same is true for the 7802, but maybe I am wrong!
> 
> Edit: one interesting thing I had not considered is the possibility of running four 7802s, with the transconductance of 20,000 a piece at 2.5A heater current, I wonder where that would put the GOTLs output impedance.




Not sure where that would put the output impedance, that would be a question for Glenn, but your transformer would allow you to do this.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Not sure where that would put the output impedance, that would be a question for Glenn, but your transformer would allow you to do this.



Cool, might be an interesting low-impedance option, I'll have to dig out my Grados!


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey Monster, figured I would reply here since it's sort of a GOTL thing.  Sorry for the book you are about to read.
> 
> Having listened to them both several times, I could give a vague description of the Tung Sol 6080 vs the 7802, but I haven't done an AB.  I'm happy to though, I have both, I'll see if I have time today or tomorrow.  Right off the bat though, the difference is large when it comes to soundstage, dynamics, resolution.
> 
> ...



I do not recommend using the 7802 in this amp.  I tried a pair about 10 years ago they got very hot and didn't sound good. Ran them for about 15 minuets
didn't like the sound and they were screaming hot. They require a 500 ohm cathode resistor and the ones in the amp are 1/2 that so the tubes will be over current
and get very hot and probably ruin them.
They are fine in a cathode follower amp were nothing really matters that much


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> I do not recommend using the 7802 in this amp.  I tried a pair about 10 years ago they got very hot and didn't sound good. Ran them for about 15 minuets
> didn't like the sound and they were screaming hot. They require a 500 ohm cathode resistor and the ones in the amp are 1/2 that so the tubes will be over current
> and get very hot and probably ruin them.
> They are fine in a cathode follower amp were nothing really matters that much



Well there you go, probably not a good idea then @Monsterzero ! Case closed.


----------



## Monsterzero

Well Schiit!


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> I do not recommend using the 7802 in this amp. I tried a pair about 10 years ago they got very hot and didn't sound good. Ran them for about 15 minuets
> didn't like the sound and they were screaming hot. They require a 500 ohm cathode resistor and the ones in the amp are 1/2 that so the tubes will be over current
> and get very hot and probably ruin them.


Updated my compatibility list to reflect this info


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I do not recommend using the 7802 in this amp.  I tried a pair about 10 years ago they got very hot and didn't sound good. Ran them for about 15 minuets
> didn't like the sound and they were screaming hot. They require a 500 ohm cathode resistor and the ones in the amp are 1/2 that so the tubes will be over current
> and get very hot and probably ruin them.
> They are fine in a cathode follower amp were nothing really matters that much



It's a shame that the 7802 won't work as there are so few output tubes available to use in the GOTL. lol 

But for those who enjoy the chase, I would suggest the French-made Thompson CSF 6336A. I have been looking for a pair of these for about 5 years with no luck. I have no idea how they might sound, but again, it's the thrill of the hunt that matters most! Yes?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

The Hateful Eight have all arrived.  Fivre must've loved changing up their designs, so much diversity in the build of this tube, finding matched construction in six must be near impossible.  Hope the sound is worth the effort it took to put this set together.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> The Hateful Eight have all arrived.  Fivre must've loved changing up their designs, so much diversity in the build of this tube, finding matched construction in six must be near impossible.  Hope the sound is worth the effort it took to put this set together.




Great job coming up with those.....kudos


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> The Hateful Eight have all arrived.  Fivre must've loved changing up their designs, so much diversity in the build of this tube, finding matched construction in six must be near impossible.  Hope the sound is worth the effort it took to put this set together.


Hi LG,
Come to think about it, American manufacturers also kept on changing their internal designs. Top getter, bottom getter, side getter, parallel plates, T plates, two micas, three micas, tall tube, short tube, more support rods, less support rods, copper rods, nickel rods, 2 hole plates, 3 hole plates, black plate, gray plate, etc etc.
I guess the difference is that the logos did not change that much compared to the Fivres lol.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 28, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> Come to think about it, American manufacturers also kept on changing their internal designs. Top getter, bottom getter, side getter, parallel plates, T plates, two micas, three micas, tall tube, short tube, more support rods, less support rods, copper rods, nickel rods, 2 hole plates, 3 hole plates, black plate, gray plate, etc etc.
> I guess the difference is that the logos did not change that much compared to the Fivres lol.



Oh yes, no doubt, I guess what I should have said was there is more diversity in the build of the Fivre 6BX7 than other brands of 6BX7 I have collected.  To be fair, Fivre was manufacturing these tubes much longer than others, since the 40s, while Tung Sol and RCA did not start until the early 60s, for example.

I know most people on this thread probably already have their own way of securing loose tube bases, but I wanted to share a method I've started using that I think is very effective.  I have been using Starbond EM-02 cyanoacrylate adhesive, strong stuff.  It is water thin, so three or four evenly spaced drops right where the glass meets the base and the adhesive easily seeps and spreads throughout the inside.  It is soluble in acetone, so any excess on the glass or base can easily be wiped away with acetone-based nail polish remover.  Have to be careful though not to get any on an area of print, as acetone will take it right off.  Q-tip is helpful, I sealed up the bases on my two NEC 6AS7Gs very securely, and quickly!  I'll report back if any issues come up.

Link: https://www.starbond.com/super-fast-thin-ca-glue.html


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Oh yes, no doubt, I guess what I should have said was there is more diversity in the build of the Fivre 6BX7 than other brands of 6BX7 I have collected.  To be fair, Fivre was manufacturing these tubes much longer than others, since the 40s, while Tung Sol and RCA did not start until the early 60s, for example.
> 
> I know most people on this thread probably already have their own method of securing loose tube bases, but I wanted to share a method I've started using that I think is very effective.  I have been using Starbond EM-02 cyanoacrylate adhesive, strong stuff.  It is water thin, so three or four evenly spaced drops right where the glass meets the base and the adhesive easily seeps and spreads throughout the inside.  It is soluble in acetone, so any excess on the glass or base can easily be wiped away with acetone-based nail polish remover.  Have to be careful though not to get any on an area of print, as acetone will take it right off.  Q-tip is helpful, I sealed up the bases on my two NEC 6AS7Gs very securely, and quickly!  I'll report back if any issues come up.
> 
> Link: https://www.starbond.com/super-fast-thin-ca-glue.html


I use something similar, but with one more advantage - a little brush in the cap that gets into crevices or in the space where the glass meets the tube base. I also use the brush to apply glue around the anode cap base on old tubes:




Around $3 in Walmart and widely available.


----------



## Phantaminum

Had a little scare yesterday. 

We moved to Dallas for a job and have been looking for a house while living in an apartment complex close to work. Apartment building alarm goes off meaning that there could be a possible fire somewhere. The wife and I grab our dogs, wallet/purse, and car keys. Smelled smoke on the way out.

First thing I thought when we were all outside safe, "Damn...the GOTL and tubes are going to be hard to replace if goes up with the building".  

Luckily whatever was burned (they were cooking) had been put out by the tenant in that unit.


----------



## Monsterzero

Tonight its Snowy White,Joe Bonamassa,Pink Floyd and The Guess Who.
Who says OTLs and easy to drive headphones dont mix?! 
Focal Stellia in the house. Big bass,excellent staging for a closed back,with excellent imaging. Very dynamic.Good stuff.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Tonight its Snowy White,Joe Bonamassa,Pink Floyd and The Guess Who.
> Who says OTLs and easy to drive headphones dont mix?!
> Focal Stellia in the house. Big bass,excellent staging for a closed back,with excellent imaging. Very dynamic.Good stuff.




Great cans, great music, great amp = great time!


----------



## mordy

A scary experience but all is well that ends well.
You do get very attached to your equipment and tubes......


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Had a little scare yesterday.
> 
> We moved to Dallas for a job and have been looking for a house while living in an apartment complex close to work. Apartment building alarm goes off meaning that there could be a possible fire somewhere. The wife and I grab our dogs, wallet/purse, and car keys. Smelled smoke on the way out.
> 
> ...



I would have built you another OTL at cost if that happened.


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> I would have built you another OTL at cost if that happened.



That’s a comfort Glenn, thanks.

I’m glad it all ended well. And after this we’re in the process of making an emergency bag just for situations like this.

Also, imagine having to send a list to a claims adjuster: 1 x Glenn OTL amp, 4 x ECC35, etc..then receiving a check back for a Little Dot Amp and the pricing of Chinese audio tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> That’s a comfort Glenn, thanks.
> 
> I’m glad it all ended well. And after this we’re in the process of making an emergency bag just for situations like this.
> 
> Also, imagine having to send a list to a claims adjuster: 1 x Glenn OTL amp, 4 x ECC35, etc..then receiving a check back for a Little Dot Amp and the pricing of Chinese audio tubes.



I know.
The problem lveing in a apartment complex is who knows what morons are in the other units.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Tonight its Snowy White,Joe Bonamassa,Pink Floyd and The Guess Who.
> Who says OTLs and easy to drive headphones dont mix?!
> Focal Stellia in the house. Big bass,excellent staging for a closed back,with excellent imaging. Very dynamic.Good stuff.


Enjoy. I've really been enjoying the Stellia the last few months. I almost lost them to my wife, but managed to get them back once I purchased a nice set of headphones for her. The Stellia have been getting a lot of use this summer with the iBasso DX220. And apparently the DX220 will have a tube amp/module next month...

In theory OTL amps shouldn't be a good match for the Stellia! Their impedances are too similar. But, then I found this post by Glenn:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1052#post-13749687


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 28, 2019)

Glenn, other than having the 6/12/25 volt switch, why is it the GOTL is so flexible with different input tubes?  Is it the input biasing scheme, or related to having an SRPP output stage?

I know this is not the case for many other amps.  For example, using the 6SN7 vs 6N7.  I asked Bottlehead if I could sub a 6N7 rather than a 6SN7 in my cathode-follower, they told me it would put a +10V bias on the grid, causing it to draw current and eventually destroy the tube, so we're not doing that.


----------



## mordy

Chanced upon another excellent driver, the National Union 6SL7WGT brown Micanol base from 1953.  




There is a single offering on eBay from a Greek seller - I like his description:
_"Rare decade 1950 NATIONAL UNION 6SL7WGT Test tube Super strong balanced platinum. rare tubes with oval mica. Platinum Agreed high quality demo tape AVO MK IV Mark An excellent tube, the NATIONAL UNION USA is one of the best available guitars and acoustic tubes. It is also a very complete and unique pipe construction. This tube has a great sound to your amp and guitar sounds very good, perfectly balanced "colorful" harmonious and beautiful clear sound overdrive when pressed. The top of the HI FI AUDIO sound. The best perfect sound."_
I guess that the "unique pipe construction" refers to the "umbrella spokes"....
I think that some British tubes use the same type of umbrella spokes. 
Come to think of it, all the National Union tubes I have sound great - I hereby nominate National Union as the American GEC!


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Chanced upon another excellent driver, the National Union 6SL7WGT brown Micanol base from 1953.
> 
> There is a single offering on eBay from a Greek seller - I like his description:
> _"Rare decade 1950 NATIONAL UNION 6SL7WGT Test tube Super strong balanced platinum. rare tubes with oval mica. Platinum Agreed high quality demo tape AVO MK IV Mark An excellent tube, the NATIONAL UNION USA is one of the best available guitars and acoustic tubes. It is also a very complete and unique pipe construction. This tube has a great sound to your amp and guitar sounds very good, perfectly balanced "colorful" harmonious and beautiful clear sound overdrive when pressed. The top of the HI FI AUDIO sound. The best perfect sound."_
> ...



They’re beautiful sounding tubes and are among my top favorites. Never seen one with the brown base. Interesting on the umbrella spokes, sounds like an Osram/Marconi type build.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glenn, other than having the 6/12/25 volt switch, why is it the GOTL is so flexible with different input tubes?  Is it the input biasing scheme, or related to having an SRPP output stage?
> 
> I know this is not the case for many other amps.  For example, using the 6SN7 vs 6N7.  I asked Bottlehead if I could sub a 6N7 rather than a 6SN7 in my cathode-follower, they told me it would put a +10V bias on the grid, causing it to draw current and eventually destroy the tube, so we're not doing that.



I think you mean 6AS7 cathode follower? If you use a 6N7 that the two cathodes are hooked together into a single cathode it would short the two channels together.
In my OTL the 6SN7 is a voltage amplifier and the signal is taken off the plates. The 6N7 is not a proper tube with a single cathode.
The adapter used should hook the 6N7 cathode to both 6SN7 cathodes to bias correctly. I don't know never checked one of these adapters or tried a 6N7.
With the single cathode there is possible cross talk between channels but the cathode resistor bypass capacitor should take care of cross talk.
Most people like the sound of the 6N7 even though I have never tried it. It will not heart anything in the 6SN7 socket but don't try it in a 6AS7 socket that will be all bad.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> I think you mean 6AS7 cathode follower? If you use a 6N7 that the two cathodes are hooked together into a single cathode it would short the two channels together.
> In my OTL the 6SN7 is a voltage amplifier and the signal is taken off the plates. The 6N7 is not a proper tube with a single cathode.
> The adapter used should hook the 6N7 cathode to both 6SN7 cathodes to bias correctly. I don't know never checked one of these adapters or tried a 6N7.
> With the single cathode there is possible cross talk between channels but the cathode resistor bypass capacitor should take care of cross talk.
> Most people like the sound of the 6N7 even though I have never tried it. It will not heart anything in the 6SN7 socket but don't try it in a 6AS7 socket that will be all bad.



Oh no, not using the 6N7 as the cathode follower, my amp is a 6SN7 input and 6AS7 cathode follower.  I cannot use the 6N7 in place of the 6SN7 though according to the designer, but really happy the GOTL can, it just seems so flexible with input tubes. I'll have a few to try when it arrives, everyone hear raves about them.  Deyan is fashioning the adapter for me, so I trust him to get it right.


----------



## gibosi

I finally managed to pick up a Telefunken RGN4004 rectifier for a price I was willing to pay. These tend to be pretty expensive. Globe mesh plates manufactured in the late 1930's typically go for more than $500. The somewhat later globes with sheet metal plates manufactured during WWII still command prices in the hundreds of dollars. After the war, Telefunken switched to the ST bottle and while still expensive, every once in a while one shows up for less than $200. And taking advantage of a promotional offer on eBay I managed to get this one for a very good price. It was manufactured in August, 1949 (ym)



The RGN4004 requires an adapter as it is a 4-volt tube. Further, the heater draws 4 amps. Other than the Glenn, I don't know of any other headphone amp that can provide 4 amps to a rectifier. As a result it can provide 300ma of current, a pretty poweful rectifier.

Telefunken rectifiers are among the brightest rectifiers I have ever heard, and to my ears, they match up well with darker drivers, such as the Lorenz C3g. However, up to now, I have been limited to running only four 6BL7 as the two Telefunken rectifiers I have, the AZ12 and WE56, can provide at most 200ma. So I have been waiting very patiently for this rectifier to show up at a good price. And finally, I can run 5998 and the Lorenz.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice Ken.


----------



## Monsterzero

@leftside 

The audiophile gods smiled upon me today. Look what Fred from Lampizator just dropped off at my house!!!

 

 

 

I begged him not to bring me one of their mega buck DACs....He didnt listen. I guess thats why he has his job.
Im terrified to actually listen to this beast,cuz then I will have to buy one...no clue how I will pull that off.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> I finally managed to pick up a Telefunken RGN4004 rectifier for a price I was willing to pay. These tend to be pretty expensive. Globe mesh plates manufactured in the late 1930's typically go for more than $500. The somewhat later globes with sheet metal plates manufactured during WWII still command prices in the hundreds of dollars. After the war, Telefunken switched to the ST bottle and while still expensive, every once in a while one shows up for less than $200. And taking advantage of a promotional offer on eBay I managed to get this one for a very good price. It was manufactured in August, 1949 (ym)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I suppose you are using it with the adapter to a 3DG4? That tube will burn up most adapters with the built in resistor.
So how does it sound??


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> @leftside
> 
> The audiophile gods smiled upon me today. Look what Fred from Lampizator just dropped off at my house!!!
> 
> ...



Nice DAC
What are those tubes it is using??


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Nice DAC
> What are those tubes it is using??


Not really sure TBH.
He included a few tubes for me to roll. The only tube types I recognize is a pair of el34b.
The others you could probably ID better than I.
Im assuming that EL34s would replace the Russians?
Not sure what tube type the big one is...rectifier?


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I suppose you are using it with the adapter to a 3DG4? That tube will burn up most adapters with the built in resistor.
> So how does it sound??



A very good point. When running 4-volt rectifiers with the B4 base, the only adapter I ever use is B4 to 3DG4. For sure, it is safer and more accurate. In fact, the adapter in the pic is one that you modified for me.

And it sounds great. But then, I already knew that the Telefunken / Lorenz pairing would sound great.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> @leftside
> 
> The audiophile gods smiled upon me today. Look what Fred from Lampizator just dropped off at my house!!!
> 
> ...


Oh man the new Atlantic TRP with copper chassis. Fred is a good salesman.... I started out with the base model Atlantic and somehow ended up with a maxed out Golden Atlantic. Apparently, I can also upgrade this GA to the new TRP. It's not the upgrade price that scares me so much, but rather that the new TRP can use EL34, KT66, 6L6, etc and that I would need 4 with my balanced DAC.... 

Enjoy  Let me know how the conversation with the bank goes regarding the loan.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Enjoy  Let me know how the conversation with the bank goes regarding the loan.



LOL! Pretty much. Then I'd be homeless,cuz my wife would throw me outta the house.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Not really sure TBH.
> He included a few tubes for me to roll. The only tube types I recognize is a pair of el34b.
> The others you could probably ID better than I.
> Im assuming that EL34s would replace the Russians?
> Not sure what tube type the big one is...rectifier?


Yes the big one at the front is a rectifier. You have a few rectifiers that you can try there...


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Not really sure TBH.
> He included a few tubes for me to roll. The only tube types I recognize is a pair of el34b.
> The others you could probably ID better than I.
> Im assuming that EL34s would replace the Russians?
> Not sure what tube type the big one is...rectifier?



EL34 and 6CA7 are the same tube EL34 is the European # and 6CA7 is the American # the fat tube is the rectifier.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> EL34 and 6CA7 are the same tube EL34 is the European # and 6CA7 is the American # the fat tube is the rectifier.


Since neither is on my list of compatibility... would EL34 / 6CA7 work on the OTL?  If so - which adapter needed?


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Since neither is on my list of compatibility... would EL34 / 6CA7 work on the OTL?  If so - which adapter needed?



No these will not work in the OTL Do not try them!!!
They are single pentodes the OTL needs a dual triode.
Unless you can get a adapter for two triode connected EL34s to a 6AS7. I don't think there is such a adapter adapter.


----------



## mordy (Jun 30, 2019)

Have been listening to the National Union 6SL7WGT "umbrella spoke" tube for a couple of days. Amazed at the attack, quickness, slam, detail, timbre and instrument separation of this tube.
Saw somewhere that the WGT designation should be good for 10,000 hours - not bad....
Tung Sol and Sylvania also made this tube but a little different construction without the umbrella spokes.
Also found this tube labeled Philips and K-R, but they look to be Sylvania tubes. And no, I would not pay $50 for this Philips tube:




PS: Just checked my 6SL7 box and found that I have both the Sylvania and Tung Sol brown bases 6SL7WGT tubes so I could compare them to the NU.


----------



## Deyan

2359glenn said:


> No these will not work in the OTL Do not try them!!!
> They are single pentodes the OTL needs a dual triode.
> Unless you can get a adapter for two triode connected EL34s to a 6AS7. I don't think there is such a adapter adapter.



I can make such an adapter. 

P. S. Hello everyone.


----------



## Monsterzero

Deyan said:


> I can make such an adapter.
> 
> P. S. Hello everyone.



Hey Deyan! Its Darren from NY. Good to see you here.


----------



## Deyan

Hello I know you after all yours was the first order on the EL3 to C3g adapters


----------



## Deyan

Deyan said:


> Hello I know you after all yours was the first order on the EL3 to C3g adapters



Sorry that was Mordy


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Deyan said:


> I can make such an adapter.
> 
> P. S. Hello everyone.



Hey Deyan - you know me as well, Keenan from Ohio, welcome to Head-Fi! Looking forward to receiving my adapter package from you  thanks again for putting together the EL32 to C3g.


----------



## mordy

Deyan said:


> Sorry that was Mordy


I am using the EL3 to  C3g adapters every day with a pair of EL8 tubes.
Also have from you EL11 to C3g, 7N7 to 6SN7, 5687 to 6SN7, six socket savers and a special long lasting high usage socket saver that I use all the time for driver tube rolling.


----------



## Deyan

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey Deyan - you know me as well, Keenan from Ohio, welcome to Head-Fi! Looking forward to receiving my adapter package from you  thanks again for putting together the EL32 to C3g.



Hello to you as well. Your package should arrive by the end of next week. 
To be honest I have been following the thread for a while and i can't thank everyone enough for the kindest of words.


----------



## rnros

Deyan said:


> ...To be honest I have been following the thread for a while and i can't thank everyone enough for the kindest of words.



Hi Deyan. You fully deserve the good reputation you have. Welcome, good to see you here.


----------



## Deyan

It's good to be here.


----------



## rnros

Deyan said:


> It's good to be here.



I have a pair of Yamamoto sockets for the EL3/EL8's that I've been wanting to send you for another pair of the C3g adapters.
I'll PM you in the next couple of days for your address.
So easy to reach you now. : )


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> No these will not work in the OTL Do not try them!!!
> They are single pentodes the OTL needs a dual triode.
> Unless you can get a adapter for two triode connected EL34s to a 6AS7. I don't think there is such a adapter adapter.


Thanks Glenn.  Added to the "Not compatible" section!


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey Deyan - you know me as well, Keenan from Ohio, welcome to Head-Fi! Looking forward to receiving my adapter package from you  thanks again for putting together the EL32 to C3g.


Please post some impressions, so I can decide whether I *need* those adapters, too...


----------



## Deyan

rnros said:


> I have a pair of Yamamoto sockets for the EL3/EL8's that I've been wanting to send you for another pair of the C3g adapters.
> I'll PM you in the next couple of days for your address.
> So easy to reach you now. : )



Ok. I'll start sourcing the things I'll need. But I think they will have to look different since ( as I recall ) the Yamamoto sockets are ceramic so can't get rid of the mounting ears


----------



## rnros

Deyan said:


> Ok. I'll start sourcing the things I'll need. But I think they will have to look different since ( as I recall ) the Yamamoto sockets are ceramic so can't get rid of the mounting ears



That is correct, and that's fine. Thanks.


----------



## leftside

Hey there Deyan. I have Deyan's EL34 to C3g adapters, but haven't been able to try some of them yet. Hopefully at the end of July I will. Also have:

EL3/EL3N to C3g
EL11 to C3g 
EL38 to C3g
FDD20 to 12SN7
FW4-500 to 3DG4

And a quad of TT21 to KT88 that I use in my main amps.

For those of you who want to try the 6J5/L63/6C5/6P5 tubes you can use one of Deyans 6J5/L63/6C5/6P5 to 6SN7 adapters. The GEC 6J5G driver tubes (and adapters) are the tubes I use most often in my Woo, and most likely in my upcoming custom amp as well.


----------



## Phantaminum

I just popped in the GEC 6080s and they started giving off a burning metal smell but I could not see anything burning inside or outside the tube. Anyone experience this before? I've never had this happen with any of the other power tubes I own so I'm wondering if it's burning off particles from the GEC box.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> I just popped in the GEC 6080s and they started giving off a burning metal smell but I could not see anything burning inside or outside the tube. Anyone experience this before? I've never had this happen with any of the other power tubes I own so I'm wondering if it's burning off particles from the GEC box.



It could be box dust and oil from fingers burning off.  These tubes have been siting around for 60 to 70 years.
The smell will burn off in a day.


----------



## Deyan (Jul 1, 2019)

leftside said:


> Hey there Deyan. I have Deyan's EL34 to C3g adapters, but haven't been able to try some of them yet. Hopefully at the end of July I will. Also have:
> 
> EL3/EL3N to C3g
> EL11 to C3g
> ...



Hey there Leftside


----------



## Deyan (Jul 1, 2019)

leftside said:


> Hey there Deyan. I have Deyan's EL34 to C3g adapters, but haven't been able to try some of them yet. Hopefully at the end of July I will. Also have:
> 
> EL3/EL3N to C3g
> EL11 to C3g
> ...



Have they been that many already??


----------



## heliosphann

Phantaminum said:


> I just popped in the GEC 6080s and they started giving off a burning metal smell but I could not see anything burning inside or outside the tube. Anyone experience this before? I've never had this happen with any of the other power tubes I own so I'm wondering if it's burning off particles from the GEC box.



I had the same thing happen to my NOS GEC 6080's when I used them for the first time a few years ago.


----------



## 2359glenn

Deyan said:


> Ok. I'll start sourcing the things I'll need. But I think they will have to look different since ( as I recall ) the Yamamoto sockets are ceramic so can't get rid of the mounting ears



@Deyan a question from the amp builder
When making 6N7 to 6SN7 adapters are you connecting the single cathode from the 6N7 to both cathodes of the 6SN7?  It should be.
And when making adapters that go into C3g sockets are you hooking to both C3g cathodes? It should be.
Good luck making nice adapters.
Glenn


----------



## Deyan

Both cathodes in both cases. Leftside had an exception where the cathodes where switchable ( but that was for FDD20 ).


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 1, 2019)

Deyan said:


> Both cathodes in both cases. Leftside had an exception where the cathodes where switchable ( but that was for FDD20 ).



Hey Deyan, welcome. I am on vacation at this time,but will get ahold of you when I return home.

Thanks for all that you are doing for everybody.


----------



## Deyan

whirlwind said:


> Hey Deyan, welcome. I am on vacation at this time,but will get ahold of you when I return home.
> 
> Thanks for all that you are doing for everybody.



Hello. No worries. I'm available about all the time.


----------



## 2359glenn

Deyan said:


> Both cathodes in both cases. Leftside had an exception where the cathodes where switchable ( but that was for FDD20 ).



Great just was curious as to how they were built. 
Yes the FDD20 is really what would be a 12N7 with the crazy side contact base. Yes these should be normally hooked to both 12SN7 cathodes. Nice sounding tube.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Deyan said:


> I can make such an adapter.
> 
> P. S. Hello everyone.



Hello @Deyan, Ken Ji here (kjling on eBay).

Hope you're well mate 

Cheers, KJ


----------



## Deyan

Hi KJ. Yes I'm alright. You too I hope.


----------



## Deyan

Here is some of my more complicated pieces. A dual triode connected EF50's to 6N3P adapters with a separate power supply. The offset in the bottom plugs is due to space restrictions.


----------



## 2359glenn

Deyan said:


> Here is some of my more complicated pieces. A dual triode connected EF50's to 6N3P adapters with a separate power supply. The offset in the bottom plugs is due to space restrictions.



What's in the Box?


----------



## Deyan (Jul 1, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> What's in the Box?



The power supply. The amp that this was meant to be used for was capable of only a few hundred milliamps of filament current so I had to make a separate power supply for the 4 EF50 tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Deyan said:


> Here is some of my more complicated pieces. A dual triode connected EF50's to 6N3P adapters with a separate power supply. The offset in the bottom plugs is due to space restrictions.



Do you listen to music via tubes yourself Deyan, or just a builder?


----------



## mordy

Curious if this pentode could be used in the GOTL in the C3G sockets?
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ef50.html


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jul 1, 2019)

Here is a roll that I have been enjoying:

 

I really like these 'low profile' EL32->C3G adapters 


.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Curious if this pentode could be used in the GOTL in the C3G sockets?
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ef50.html



Yes with a adapter.
Don't know how they would sound as they are a IF / RF tube for radar IF amplifiers.
The IF frequency in radar is 60 MHz


----------



## gibosi

With the recent arrival of the TFK4004, I have been rolling through some darker drivers. And this rectifier really makes the gray-glass RCA come to life. 

PS: lf anyone else is interested in rolling a TFK4004, or any other B4-based 4-volt rectifier, Deyan can make you a very nice adapter, B4 to 3DG4.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> With the recent arrival of the TFK4004, I have been rolling through some darker drivers. And this rectifier really makes the gray-glass RCA come to life.
> 
> PS: lf anyone else is interested in rolling a TFK4004, or any other B4-based 4-volt rectifier, Deyan can make you a very nice adapter, B4 to 3DG4.



Brightens the dark driver?


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Brightens the dark driver?



In a sense, yes. A rectifier "colors" the sound of every other tube in the system. In this case, the bright TFK rectifier coupled with the darker warmer RCA makes a for a very nice combination to my years.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> In a sense, yes. A rectifier "colors" the sound of every other tube in the system. In this case, the bright TFK rectifier coupled with the darker warmer RCA makes a for a very nice combination to my years.



Right-o, glad it pleases, you, G...

Bright Moments


----------



## Deyan

L0rdGwyn said:


> Do you listen to music via tubes yourself Deyan, or just a builder?



I don't. I can't really afford it.


----------



## Deyan

mordy said:


> Curious if this pentode could be used in the GOTL in the C3G sockets?
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ef50.html



It can't. It has 9 pins.


----------



## 2359glenn

Deyan said:


> The power supply. The amp that this was meant to be used for was capable of only a few hundred milliamps of filament current so I had to make a separate power supply for the 4 EF50 tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Deyan
In the past I used to make many adapters now I build amps so no time to build adapters anymore.
There was a adapter that was used in the Woo Audio WA6=SE and I still get asked to build this.
It is 6SN7 to 6FD7 one side has to have a 1K ohm cathode resistor and bypass capacitor built in the adapter.
Kind of a pain to make It needs a 9 pin socket saver on the bottom because Woo Audio has the socket recessed in the chassis.
If I get asked do you want to make these??  Or you can post on the Woo WA6 thread on head-fi.


----------



## Deyan

2359glenn said:


> Deyan
> In the past I used to make many adapters now I build amps so no time to build adapters anymore.
> There was a adapter that was used in the Woo Audio WA6=SE and I still get asked to build this.
> It is 6SN7 to 6FD7 one side has to have a 1K ohm cathode resistor and bypass capacitor built in the adapter.
> ...



I accept the offer Glenn ( I need the work ). But since I now have the ability to do my own machining I can eliminate the need for a socket saver. And besides I found a supply of some kind of aerospace grade plastic.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 2, 2019)

[/QUOTE[/QUOTE]


gibosi said:


> With the recent arrival of the TFK4004, I have been rolling through some darker drivers. And this rectifier really makes the gray-glass RCA come to life.
> 
> PS: lf anyone else is interested in rolling a TFK4004, or any other B4-based 4-volt rectifier, Deyan can make you a very nice adapter, B4 to 3DG4.



If this is the same adapter that the GEC U18/20 uses, I want one as mine runs way to hot for my liking


----------



## 2359glenn

Deyan said:


> I accept the offer Glenn ( I need the work ). But since I now have the ability to do my own machining I can eliminate the need for a socket saver. And besides I found a supply of some kind of aerospace grade plastic.



The resistor and capacitor only go on one of the triodes I used a 1K ohm and 22uf 16 volt a larger capacitor would be better. 
That is the largest value I could fit in the adapter.
Also some wanted a 6FD7 to 6F8G adapter.
I will ask some people that sent me PMs if they would want you to make it for them.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Nice pair of Fivre 6N7GT here for a pretty good price if anyone is interested, I am all Fivre 6N7'd out.  Haven't heard them myself just yet, but they are well-regarded.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254282432255?ul_noapp=true


----------



## gibosi (Jul 2, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> If this is the same adapter that the GEC U18/20 uses, I want one as mine runs way to hot for my liking



Yes, this is the adapter you need. I told Deyan that I wanted an FW4-500 to 3DG4, but this adapter will work with any 4-volt rectifier with a B4 base:


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Yes, this is the adapter you need. I told Deyan that I wanted an FW4-500 to 3DG4, but this adapter will work with any 4-volt rectifier with a B4 base:



As long as the amp has the capability to use a 3DG4. Pretty much all my amps do.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Here is a roll that I have been enjoying:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes those EL32s sound good if both are quiet
I enjoyed them when you lent them and the adapters to me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Yes those EL32s sound good if both are quiet
> I enjoyed them when you lent them and the adapters to me.



Think that was @UntilThen who loaned you those.  

I gave you a Sylvania 6SN7W  

Both my EL32's are perfectly quiet, they are indeed impressive adapted to the C3G sockets.

.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Think that was @UntilThen who loaned you those.
> 
> I gave you a Sylvania 6SN7W
> 
> ...



Yes it was UT that lent me them with the adapters the same ones you have.
They sound really good but one of them was a little noisy.
The 6SN7W is maybe the best 6SN7 have it in the front end of my preamp has to be a quiet tube in that position.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Speaking of EL32 adapters, Deyan's most excellent adapters arrived today. Package includes:

Octal socket saver
12AU7 to 6SN7
2C51 to 6SN7
6N7 to 6SN7
EL32 to C3g

It's obvious these are top quality, very well-made, thanks very much Deyan.  Here is a picture of how the EL32 adapters will look with the two types I have.  Will report on how they sound when I can.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Speaking of EL32 adapters, Deyan's most excellent adapters arrived today. Package includes:
> 
> Octal socket saver
> 12AU7 to 6SN7
> ...



Look nice so do Deyan's adapters.


----------



## Deyan

L0rdGwyn said:


> Speaking of EL32 adapters, Deyan's most excellent adapters arrived today. Package includes:
> 
> Octal socket saver
> 12AU7 to 6SN7
> ...



:O I sent them was it last week. Good to see everything arrived safe and sound.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Deyan said:


> :O I sent them was it last week. Good to see everything arrived safe and sound.



Oh yes, everything is intact and shipping was fast, I was surprised when they came today.  I do not have Glenn's amp yet, but while I wait, I am using your 2C51 to 6SN7 adapter paired with a 6SN7 to 12AU7 adapter in my Bottlehead amp, I love these little tubes, very nice sounding.

I will leave you some trader feedback here on Head-Fi as well.  Thanks again.


----------



## Deyan

L0rdGwyn said:


> Oh yes, everything is intact and shipping was fast, I was surprised when they came today.  I do not have Glenn's amp yet, but while I wait, I am using your 2C51 to 6SN7 adapter paired with a 6SN7 to 12AU7 adapter in my Bottlehead amp, I love these little tubes, very nice sounding.
> 
> I will leave you some trader feedback here on Head-Fi as well.  Thanks again.


Very glad you are happy with the things.


----------



## gibosi

*Tube Lore II*

For those who might consider themselves to be "tube addicts", Ludwell Sibley has released version two of this classic out-of-print book. In my opinion, Ludwell Sibley may well know more about vacuum tubes than anyone else alive.

From the Electric Radio Magazine web site:

https://ermag.com/index.cfm?v_link=product_detail&v_key=720

This new version is 288 pages of text, 102 more pages than the original version had. Also included is a data CD of important information, one section covers deciphering tube date codes, most of which has not been available until now.

The new version of the book covers about 13,000 ( ! ! ) tube types, plus another 4800 or so radar / microwave parts on the data CD.  Also on the disk is info on very strange and unusual tube types, another 106 pages.

The price is $34.95 plus shipping.


----------



## heliosphann

Finally rolled in some 6BX7's. What's your guy's favorite driver combos with them? Right now I've got an ECC35 in and it sounds fantastic, but there's barely like 20% of the volume pot available. I might have to start using my DAC that has an adjustable output.


----------



## rnros (Jul 2, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Finally rolled in some 6BX7's. What's your guy's favorite driver combos with them? Right now I've got an ECC35 in and it sounds fantastic, but there's barely like 20% of the volume pot available. I might have to start using my DAC that has an adjustable output.



That doesn't sound right.
My DAC outputs the typical 2V RMS and I rarely find myself outside of the 11 to 1 o'clock range with any of my usual drivers and power tubes.
Don't have the ECC35, but that tube has amplification of about 70, higher than the drivers I favor.
And the 6BX7s have higher amplification than my usual power tubes.
So, don't know what to say that can be of any help...

Edit: That said, you probably have a different volume pot, I have the standard pot in this GOTL, so the taper might be different on your pot... And, less attenuation on the signal is not a bad thing, as long as it allows you to use the equipment you prefer... If you have a stepped attenuator, you shouldn't have to worry about channel imbalance at the extremes.


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Finally rolled in some 6BX7's. What's your guy's favorite driver combos with them? Right now I've got an ECC35 in and it sounds fantastic, but there's barely like 20% of the volume pot available. I might have to start using my DAC that has an adjustable output.



Is this at the bottom of  the pot or all the way up??
If at the bottom use a different driver with less gain then a ECC35 has.


----------



## heliosphann (Jul 2, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Is this at the bottom of  the pot or all the way up??
> If at the bottom use a different driver with less gain then a ECC35 has.



Bottom. Hmmmm, I swapped in a few 6SN7/VT-231's and I'm still at max listening level at between 8 and 9 on the pot. I think that's just a little above where I was with the ECC35.

Using a 650.


----------



## mordy (Jul 2, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Bottom. Hmmmm, I swapped in a few 6SN7/VT-231's and I'm still at max listening level at between 8 and 9 on the pot. I think that's just a little above where I was with the ECC35.
> 
> Using a 650.


I am able to adjust the input from my DAC - preamp, and I am usually ending up using a 9 o'clock volume setting on my GOTL volume control. (In my case, I adjusted the GOTL volume control so that 0 is 6 o'clock - I think that the factory setting was 0 at 7).
Is there a preferred setting of the volume control on the GOTL for better sound?
PS: ATM the driver is a 6SL7 with a multiplication factor of 70, but I don't find much of a difference using a 6SN7 with a factor of 20.


----------



## JazzVinyl

heliosphann said:


> Bottom. Hmmmm, I swapped in a few 6SN7/VT-231's and I'm still at max listening level at between 8 and 9 on the pot. I think that's just a little above where I was with the ECC35.
> 
> Using a 650.



Can solve by lowering your input.  What r u using for the source?


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> The new version of the book covers about 13,000 ( ! ! ) tube types, plus another 4800 or so radar / microwave parts on the data CD.  Also on the disk is info on very strange and unusual tube types, another 106 pages.
> 
> The price is $34.95 plus shipping.



Oh my! 13,000 tubes! I hope @mordy does not find out about this!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I am able to adjust the input from my DAC - preamp, and I am usually ending up using a 9 o'clock volume setting on my GOTL volume control. (In my case, I adjusted the GOTL volume control so that 0 is 6 o'clock - I think that the factory setting was 0 at 7).
> Is there a preferred setting of the volume control on the GOTL for better sound?
> PS: ATM the driver is a 6SL7 with a multiplication factor of 70, but I don't find much of a difference using a 6SN7 with a factor of 20.



By adjusting the volume pot....
You mean you loosened the fixing nut on the pots' knob, set 0 to 6 o'clock and re-tightened the nut?

.


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Bottom. Hmmmm, I swapped in a few 6SN7/VT-231's and I'm still at max listening level at between 8 and 9 on the pot. I think that's just a little above where I was with the ECC35.
> 
> Using a 650.



I guess the 6BX7s with a gain of 10 is to much gain. They do sound nice though can you lower the output of your DAC?


----------



## mordy (Jul 2, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> By adjusting the volume pot....
> You mean you loosened the fixing nut on the pots' knob, set 0 to 6 o'clock and re-tightened the nut?
> _The volume control was rubbing against the face plate so when I moved it slightly out on the shaft I ended up retightening it at 6 o'clock and left it at that. Just stated this since my 9 o'clock might be somebody else's 8 o'clock....._
> 
> ...


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Oh my! 13,000 tubes! I hope @mordy does not find out about this!!


Hi JV,
I am definitively interested in this book. Typed in Tube Lore II on Amazon and found this instead:





AND I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> I am able to adjust the input from my DAC - preamp, and I am usually ending up using a 9 o'clock volume setting on my GOTL volume control. (In my case, I adjusted the GOTL volume control so that 0 is 6 o'clock - I think that the factory setting was 0 at 7).
> Is there a preferred setting of the volume control on the GOTL for better sound?
> PS: ATM the driver is a 6SL7 with a multiplication factor of 70, but I don't find much of a difference using a 6SN7 with a factor of 20.



Best sound with pot turned all the way up it is essentially out of the circuit then.  But most DACs have to much output.
On the EL3N amp there is single tube mode shuts off the driver tube less gain and cleaner sound.
I like the least gain less noise pick up and cleaner sound.
Have to think about this switch in the OTL when using 6BX7 or higher gain 6BL7 for outputs shut off the driver. Audio direct to the output tubes.


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> I guess the 6BX7s with a gain of 10 is to much gain. They do sound nice though can you lower the output of your DAC?





JazzVinyl said:


> Can solve by lowering your input.  What r u using for the source?



As I said in my first post, I'm probably going to have to switch to a different DAC I own that has output control.

I'm using a Yggdrasil A1 at the moment.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> I guess the 6BX7s with a gain of 10 is to much gain. They do sound nice though can you lower the output of your DAC?



6BX7 = gain of 5
6BL7 = gain of 10

He would really be in trouble with BL's...

Must lower input volume.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Best sound with pot turned all the way up it is essentially out of the circuit then.  But most DACs have to much output.
> On the EL3N amp there is single tube mode shuts off the driver tube less gain and cleaner sound.
> I like the least gain less noise pick up and cleaner sound.
> Have to think about this switch in the OTL when using 6BX7 or higher gain 6BL7 for outputs shut off the driver. Audio direct to the output tubes.



Could you make a socket saver that bypasses the driver tube?


----------



## JazzVinyl

heliosphann said:


> As I said in my first post, I'm probably going to have to switch to a different DAC I own that has output control.
> 
> I'm using a Yggdrasil A1 at the moment.



There is no volume control on my DAC either, but I do use software that controls the volume the amp sees.  What does your chain, from ones and zeros, to the amp, look like?


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> As I said in my first post, I'm probably going to have to switch to a different DAC I own that has output control.
> 
> I'm using a Yggdrasil A1 at the moment.



The Lampy I have on loan doesnt have a gain switch,so it runs real hot into the GOTL. They do make them with gain control,but its a $1K option!!!!
Otherwise you need a preamp.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> 6BX7 = gain of 5
> 6BL7 = gain of 10
> 
> He would really be in trouble with BL's...
> ...



6BX7 amplification factor = 10
6BL7 amplification factor = 14


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Could you make a socket saver that bypasses the driver tube?



Not really it would have to drive the plate load resistor too. Don't think it would sound to good.


----------



## 2359glenn

You could put 22K ohm resistor in series with the input will cut gain in 1/2


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 2, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> The Lampy I have on loan doesnt have a gain switch,so it runs real hot into the GOTL. They do make them with gain control,but its a $1K option!!!!
> Otherwise you need a preamp.



$1K to adjust the output are they crazy or crooks.
Should not be over 2 volts output.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> The Lampy I have on loan doesnt have a gain switch,so it runs real hot into the GOTL. They do make them with gain control,but its a $1K option!!!!
> Otherwise you need a preamp.





2359glenn said:


> $1K to adjust the output are they crazy or crooks.



Gotta love high end audio. Why buy a house when you can buy a pair of speakers!!!


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> 6BX7 amplification factor = 10
> 6BL7 amplification factor = 14



Is there sonic advantages to running x6 6BX7's over x4?


----------



## rnros

heliosphann said:


> As I said in my first post, I'm probably going to have to switch to a different DAC I own that has output control.
> 
> I'm using a Yggdrasil A1 at the moment.



The Yggdrasil single ended output is also 2V, so that wouldn't be the issue.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> 6BX7 amplification factor = 10
> 6BL7 amplification factor = 14



WOW, I have had these wrong in my head...forever


----------



## gibosi

heliosphann said:


> As I said in my first post, I'm probably going to have to switch to a different DAC I own that has output control.
> 
> I'm using a Yggdrasil A1 at the moment.



My DAC doesn't have an output volume control either. But I like it, and rather than buy another DAC that has output control, I simply purchased a Schitt SYS.

https://www.schiit.com/products/sys

It's cheap and as it is just a potentiometer, no electronics, no power and no distortion. In my opinion, it's only failing is ergonomics. The volume control knob is too darn small. But for $50 you might want to give it try.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Best sound with pot turned all the way up it is essentially out of the circuit then.  But most DACs have to much output.
> On the EL3N amp there is single tube mode shuts off the driver tube less gain and cleaner sound.
> I like the least gain less noise pick up and cleaner sound.
> Have to think about this switch in the OTL when using 6BX7 or higher gain 6BL7 for outputs shut off the driver. Audio direct to the output tubes.



Don't know if I am doing it right or wrong, but here goes:
Signal comes from PC into DAC, then into GOTL, then into preamp and from there to power amp and speakers. The only reason I am using the ss preamp is to have access to tone controls for speaker listening,  but I rarely use them and leave them on neutral.
I can also shut off the preamp and power amp and listen directly to the GOTL via headphones.
Using speakers, with everything on but no music playing, I turn up the volume on the preamp until I can hear background noise or hum and dial it back until it is quiet. The preamp volume ends up being set to 9-10 o'clock depending on tubes, and I only need a low volume setting on the GOTL of around 8 o'clock to get good volume. I can only hear noise when the GOTL volume is turned up almost to max - without music, or I would damage my hearing. And with some tubes no noise at all, even at max volume.
Just tried turning down the preamp volume control very low and turning up the GOTL volume very high, but the sound distorted and went into clipping - this does not work for me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> My DAC doesn't have an output volume control either. But I like it, and rather than buy another DAC that has output control, I simply purchased a Schitt SYS.
> 
> https://www.schiit.com/products/sys
> 
> It's cheap and as it is just a potentiometer, no electronics, no power and no distortion. In my opinion, it's only failing is ergonomics. The volume control knob is too darn small. But for $50 you might want to give it try.



In my setup, all digital files are on a large external USB hard drive.  The DAC is fed the one and zeros via a computer that runs software that allows you to pick what is playing.  The software has a level control....so I can reduce (or increase) the level going to the DAC.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> I am definitively interested in this book. Typed in Tube Lore II on Amazon and found this instead:
> 
> 
> ...



As you might imagine, the demand for a book like this is tiny. Lud has indicated that he is starting with Electric Radio magazine and then hopes he can persuade one or two more boutique sites to carry it. So I doubt seriously that you will find it on Amazon...


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Don't know if I am doing it right or wrong, but here goes:
> Signal comes from PC into DAC, then into GOTL, then into preamp and from there to power amp and speakers. The only reason I am using the ss preamp is to have access to tone controls for speaker listening,  but I rarely use them and leave them on neutral.
> I can also shut off the preamp and power amp and listen directly to the GOTL via headphones.
> Using speakers, with everything on but no music playing, I turn up the volume on the preamp until I can hear background noise or hum and dial it back until it is quiet. The preamp volume ends up being set to 9-10 o'clock depending on tubes, and I only need a low volume setting on the GOTL of around 8 o'clock to get good volume. I can only hear noise when the GOTL volume is turned up almost to max - without music, or I would damage my hearing. And with some tubes no noise at all, even at max volume.
> Just tried turning down the preamp volume control very low and turning up the GOTL volume very high, but the sound distorted and went into clipping - this does not work for me.


Mordy, have you tried PC -> DAC -> preamp -> GOTL -> headphones and PC -> DAC -> preamp -> main amp -> speakers? This is presuming your preamp has output for more than one amp (quite a few do - and I use this feature quite a lot when comparing amps). A chain of amp (GOTL) -> preamp -> main amp is quite a lot of amplification.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jul 2, 2019)

mordy said:


> Don't know if I am doing it right or wrong, but here goes:
> Signal comes from PC into DAC, then into GOTL, then into preamp and from there to power amp and speakers. The only reason I am using the ss preamp is to have access to tone controls for speaker listening,  but I rarely use them and leave them on neutral.
> I can also shut off the preamp and power amp and listen directly to the GOTL via headphones.
> Using speakers, with everything on but no music playing, I turn up the volume on the preamp until I can hear background noise or hum and dial it back until it is quiet. The preamp volume ends up being set to 9-10 o'clock depending on tubes, and I only need a low volume setting on the GOTL of around 8 o'clock to get good volume. I can only hear noise when the GOTL volume is turned up almost to max - without music, or I would damage my hearing. And with some tubes no noise at all, even at max volume.
> Just tried turning down the preamp volume control very low and turning up the GOTL volume very high, but the sound distorted and went into clipping - this does not work for me.



Your SS Amp Mordy...do you have preamp out / power amp in, jacks?

If so you could try bypassing the preamp in the amp, feed your 'power amp in' jacks via the GOTL...

Just a thought...


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> I am definitively interested in this book. Typed in Tube Lore II on Amazon and found this instead:
> 
> 
> ...



I love it, Mordy!!  

13,000 Tubes / The Lure of Hell


----------



## heliosphann

gibosi said:


> My DAC doesn't have an output volume control either. But I like it, and rather than buy another DAC that has output control, I simply purchased a Schitt SYS.
> 
> https://www.schiit.com/products/sys
> 
> It's cheap and as it is just a potentiometer, no electronics, no power and no distortion. In my opinion, it's only failing is ergonomics. The volume control knob is too darn small. But for $50 you might want to give it try.



I've not personally used the SYS, but I've read from several members on here that it can negatively affect the sound quality. There was a lot of discussion in the Liquid Platinum thread due to it having a pretty high fixed gain.


----------



## gibosi

heliosphann said:


> I've not personally used the SYS, but I've read from several members on here that it can negatively affect the sound quality. There was a lot of discussion in the Liquid Platinum thread due to it having a pretty high fixed gain.



Gain? There are no electronics so there is no gain. It is a potentiomenter. The only thing it can do is attenuate the signal coming out of the DAC. So I have no clue what these folks are talking about....


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Gain? There are no electronics so there is no gain. It is a potentiomenter. The only thing it can do is attenuate the signal coming out of the DAC. So I have no clue what these folks are talking about....



He was referring to the high gain on the Liquid Platinum. Lots of owners are complaining about it.


----------



## heliosphann

gibosi said:


> Gain? There are no electronics so there is no gain. It is a potentiomenter. The only thing it can do is attenuate the signal coming out of the DAC. So I have no clue what these folks are talking about....



Let me clarify. The discussion was about options to deal with the 12db of fixed gain that the Liquid Platinum amp has. Sys was mentioned as a possibility, but some people reported sound desegregation, etc...


----------



## Monsterzero

I have to admit,the GOTL+ Lampizator Atlantic TRP+Verite combo is absolutely stunning.
Im not even using my preferred tube roll for the Verite,and the sound coming into my ears is a clear,clear step above anything Ive heard before.

I had some dental work done late last week,and the ensuing headaches have mostly limited me to speakers since,so this is the first time listening to the Verite with the Lamp.
@leftside ,youre right,this DAC is absolutely killer.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Your SS Amp Mordy...do you have preamp out / power amp in, jacks?
> 
> If so you could try bypassing the preamp in the amp, feed your 'power amp in' jacks via the GOTL...
> 
> Just a thought...



I have an integrated RR2150 amp. On the back of it is jumper from the preamp section to the built in power amp (100W) section. I disconnected this and only use the preamp section, which is driving a 150W Tandberg amp that is stable down to 2 ohms. Using two pairs of Elac Debut speakers which are 6 ohm each - should be 3 ohm when using them together.
I could use the DAC >GOTL directly into the Tandberg amp and control  the volume with the GOTL but that leaves me without tone controls.


----------



## gibosi

heliosphann said:


> Let me clarify. The discussion was about options to deal with the 12db of fixed gain that the Liquid Platinum amp has. Sys was mentioned as a possibility, but some people reported sound desegregation, etc...



I suspect that using it to try to control the output of the Liquid Platinum amp is a misapplication...  All I can say is I have been using the SYS with my DAC for several months now and I am certainly not hearing any signal degradation. But as always, YMMV.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I have to admit,the GOTL+ Lampizator Atlantic TRP+Verite combo is absolutely stunning.
> Im not even using my preferred tube roll for the Verite,and the sound coming into my ears is a clear,clear step above anything Ive heard before.
> 
> I had some dental work done late last week,and the ensuing headaches have mostly limited me to speakers since,so this is the first time listening to the Verite with the Lamp.
> @leftside ,youre right,this DAC is absolutely killer.



How much is the entry fee to the Tube Rollers Paradise (Lampizator Atlantic *TRP*)?
$8,000.00?


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> How much is the entry fee to the Tube Rollers Paradise (Lampizator Atlantic *TRP*)?
> $8,000.00?



Pretty close. Im waiting on Fred to get back to me on the "best,final,rock bottom"price. I will try to figure it out from there.
Wish me luck. I need it.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 3, 2019)

gibosi said:


> Gain? There are no electronics so there is no gain. It is a potentiomenter. The only thing it can do is attenuate the signal coming out of the DAC. So I have no clue what these folks are talking about....


The Sys used to control output from dac, is not the best option, and can roll off the treble and cause serious channel imbalance, if you go lower than 2pm on the pot.  Atomic Bob, has measurements in the LP thread, to prove this.


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Is there sonic advantages to running x6 6BX7's over x4?



Really 4 will have the same gain as 6. The only thing is with 4 the headphones might load it down reducing the output voltage.
But this might degrade the SQ a little.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Best sound with pot turned all the way up it is essentially out of the circuit then.  But most DACs have to much output.
> On the EL3N amp there is single tube mode shuts off the driver tube less gain and cleaner sound.
> I like the least gain less noise pick up and cleaner sound.
> Have to think about this switch in the OTL when using 6BX7 or higher gain 6BL7 for outputs shut off the driver. Audio direct to the output tubes.



This may be an awesome idea, I use this mode on my GEL3N and I Love it. 
I volunteer to be the Guinea pig on my amp!  LOL!


----------



## gibosi

Wes S said:


> The Sys used to control output from dac, is not the best option, and can roll off the treble and cause serious channel imbalance, if you go lower than 2pm on the pot.  Atomic Bob, has measurements in the LP thread, to prove this.



This is good to know. And I will say, that it has always been my understanding that this tends to be true with most inexpensive potentiometers. Therefore, I set the volume of the GOTL such that with the SYS pot turned all the way up, that is, essentially out of the circuit, the volume is as loud as I ever listen. And in practice, I rarely set the pot lower than 3pm.

All this said, is there a better device than the SYS out there that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> The Yggdrasil single ended output is also 2V, so that wouldn't be the issue.



If you think about it a amp with no gain just a cathode follower with 2 volts in would be loud on most phones.
In the past when I would experiment I built a amp with just the output tubes with no driver it worked fine. but I had to turn up the volume all the way up at times.
I could not sell this many people think that if they have the amp over 12:00 position the amp is week.
They don't understand gain and power.  Most of the time lower gain is better less noise pickup and do you really need to be able to turn it up louder then you will listen to?
I had this argument a long time ago on head-fi and people just don't get it gain verses power. They want the volume between 9:00 and 12:00.
So I have to make amps with a driver so I don't have to listen to complaining that the amp is week.

Only the EL3N amp has a switch that bypasses the driver for cleaner sound.  And some people don't get that ether.
I put to many switches on amps sometimes. Was planing on eliminating this switch so there is less problems.
And the EL3N amp has a output transformer with a ratio that drops the output voltage and increases the current. Like a transmission in your car.
So really no need to eliminate the driver other then cleaner sound with no noise pickup. But the volume has to be turned way up when the driver is eliminated.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Yes, this is the adapter you need. I told Deyan that I wanted an FW4-500 to 3DG4, but this adapter will work with any 4-volt rectifier with a B4 base:



Thanks Ken, I thought this was the adapter that I needed.
I will contact Deyan about making me one when I return from vacation.
I am trying to navigate this site from an iPad, not an easy task for me,lol.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 3, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> This may be an awesome idea, I use this mode on my GEL3N and I Love it.
> I volunteer to be the Guinea pig on my amp!  LOL!



OK Joe
I will do this on your new OTL
I think the six 6BX7s with no driver will sound great.
But this might be the only one I make.


----------



## Deyan

whirlwind said:


> Thanks Ken, I thought this was the adapter that I needed.
> I will contact Deyan about making me one when I return from vacation.
> I am trying to navigate this site from an iPad, not an easy task for me,lol.



I'll try and make it in advance


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> OK Joe
> I will do this on your new OTL
> I think the six 6BX7s with no driver will sound great.
> But this might be the only one I make.



This would have the same option as the GEL3N amp ?
Use the driver tube or bypass them ?


----------



## whirlwind

Deyan said:


> I'll try and make it in advance



Oh, Wow.  Thanks much Deyan, I will contact you when I get home in a few days. And send you a payment.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> This would have the same option as the GEL3N amp ?
> Use the driver tube or bypass them ?



Yes the same as the EL3N amp.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Yes the same as the EL3N amp.



Great, sounds like a win/win 
Off to take the little lady to the beach....going to be a hot one today, mid 90's


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> If you think about it a amp with no gain just a cathode follower with 2 volts in would be loud on most phones.
> In the past when I would experiment I built a amp with just the output tubes with no driver it worked fine. but I had to turn up the volume all the way up at times.
> I could not sell this many people think that if they have the amp over 12:00 position the amp is week.
> They don't understand gain and power.  Most of the time lower gain is better less noise pickup and do you really need to be able to turn it up louder then you will listen to?
> ...



Good explanation. 
Makes no sense to amplify the signal beyond what you need for the headphone or speaker and then have to increase the resistance in the path of the incoming signal. Ideally, you would want to eliminate the volume pot. Even wide open, the signal still has to pass through all the extra solder joints and brass/bronze switch frame. LOL, thousands are spent on cable designs to minimize resistance, but no thought given to having to choke the incoming signal with excessive resistance on the volume pot because of excessive amplification.

I hear what you're saying about switches, but please don't eliminate the driver bypass switch on my GEL3N! 
Looking forward to that. Single stage option on the GOTL is also a great idea.


----------



## Wes S

gibosi said:


> This is good to know. And I will say, that it has always been my understanding that this tends to be true with most inexpensive potentiometers. Therefore, I set the volume of the GOTL such that with the SYS pot turned all the way up, that is, essentially out of the circuit, the volume is as loud as I ever listen. And in practice, I rarely set the pot lower than 3pm.
> 
> All this said, is there a better device than the SYS out there that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?


I would look at the Goldpoint SA1.  The SA1 is one of the most affordable, and measures well.


----------



## rnros

gibosi said:


> This is good to know. And I will say, that it has always been my understanding that this tends to be true with most inexpensive potentiometers. Therefore, I set the volume of the GOTL such that with the SYS pot turned all the way up, that is, essentially out of the circuit, the volume is as loud as I ever listen. And in practice, I rarely set the pot lower than 3pm.
> 
> All this said, is there a better device than the SYS out there that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?



Might be a worthwhile experiment to try a single resistor as Glenn mentioned a few posts back.
One that would put you in the proper range for your system.
And you get to try some of the better quality resistors, see if there really is a sound difference.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I have an integrated RR2150 amp. On the back of it is jumper from the preamp section to the built in power amp (100W) section. I disconnected this and only use the preamp section, which is driving a 150W Tandberg amp that is stable down to 2 ohms. Using two pairs of Elac Debut speakers which are 6 ohm each - should be 3 ohm when using them together.
> I could use the DAC >GOTL directly into the Tandberg amp and control  the volume with the GOTL but that leaves me without tone controls.



What player software do you use, Mordy?  Mine has volume and an eq....


----------



## gibosi

Wes S said:


> I would look at the Goldpoint SA1.  The SA1 is one of the most affordable, and measures well.



Well given my finances, $344 for their least expensive model is not what I would call affordable. For that kind of money, I'd rather get a WE422A...



rnros said:


> Might be a worthwhile experiment to try a single resistor as Glenn mentioned a few posts back.
> One that would put you in the proper range for your system.
> And you get to try some of the better quality resistors, see if there really is a sound difference.



For me this is mostly about ergonomics. The GOTL is on a shelf and I cannot reach the volume control from my recliner. And as I often roll different drivers and output tubes, the gain of the amp changes, and I need something that allows me to adjust the volume accordingly. The SYS is small and I have placed it so that I can easily reach it from my recliner. And it appears that as long as it is operated between 2 o'clock and max it's deficiencies are not a problem. So life is good. 

But thanks much for your suggestions!


----------



## mordy

Welcome to the GOTL v


JazzVinyl said:


> What player software do you use, Mordy?  Mine has volume and an eq....


I use a very sophisticated software called iTunes.  Volume set at max on screen. I think it has an equalizer function but I only use it on my phone.
Using Musicbee on a laptop with equalizer and volume at max or almost max.
Also using a free version of Spotify but the sound quality isn’t the best on this version but OK for 1920’s Jazz recordings.


----------



## Wes S

gibosi said:


> Well given my finances, $344 for their least expensive model is not what I would call affordable. For that kind of money, I'd rather get a WE422A...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would rather get a nice tube, as well.


----------



## leftside (Jul 3, 2019)

rnros said:


> Good explanation.
> Makes no sense to amplify the signal beyond what you need for the headphone or speaker and then have to increase the resistance in the path of the incoming signal. Ideally, you would want to eliminate the volume pot. Even wide open, the signal still has to pass through all the extra solder joints and brass/bronze switch frame. LOL, thousands are spent on cable designs to minimize resistance, but no thought given to having to choke the incoming signal with excessive resistance on the volume pot because of excessive amplification.


My vintage Mac amps had a gain control, but the newer ones don't - the newer ones just have an on/off switch. Most recommendations for the vintage amps was to turn the gain control to the max, and control the volume through the preamp. I set the gain contol to the max when I received the Glenn 300B amp, but I feel this amp is better when the gain control is only set to 3/4 of the way. Volume still controlled via the preamp.

I may discuss with Glenn about not having a volume pot when he builds my amp.

Good mornings discussion regarding gain and power. Thanks for the posts.


----------



## attmci (Jul 3, 2019)

gibosi said:


> Well given my finances, $344 for their least expensive model is not what I would call affordable. For that kind of money, I'd rather get a WE422A...
> 
> _I know, I know.. that's the rectifier tube you need to finalize your huge collections._
> 
> ...



Where is Matt?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Welcome to the GOTL v
> 
> I use a very sophisticated software called iTunes.  Volume set at max on screen. I think it has an equalizer function but I only use it on my phone.
> Using Musicbee on a laptop with equalizer and volume at max or almost max.
> Also using a free version of Spotify but the sound quality isn’t the best on this version but OK for 1920’s Jazz recordings.



Hello Mordy...the iTunes app has both level and EQ.  May I suggest you try that instead of a hardware preamp prior to the amp?

GOTL to control volume, iTunes' software EQ for bass/treble controls (and can raise/lower signal going to GOTL if needed).

Cheers...


----------



## JazzVinyl

My 250 WPC Hafler speaker amp ('the BEAST') does not have volume or any other controls...just on/off.  
Volume, input selection and bass/treble are all set via the preamp, prior to the BEAST


----------



## Monsterzero

At the risk of derailing this thread,ITunes of old was a RAM hog. Not sure if thats still the case or not. I would suggest looking into MediaMonkey.
It doesnt take up a lot of RAM, has very little learning curve,has EQ,has volume control,handles large playlists easily,and its free.
I tried Foobar2000 which many here swear by,but it was too complicated for me. YMMV.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I am a Foobar2000 guy.  I love it, but it definitely has a learning curve.  I keep my entire FLAC/WAV music library on a Synology DS918+ server, so I can grab files from it with any device I have connected to my wifi (laptop, desktop, phone).  It does take some work to get it set up, but once it is, so convenient and accessible.

If you prefer lossless over streaming/mp3 and can set it up (either yourself or have someone do it for you), I highly recommend having a music server.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am a Foobar2000 guy.  I love it, but it definitely has a learning curve.  I keep my entire FLAC/WAV music library on a Synology DS918+ server, so I can grab files from it with any device I have connected to my wifi (laptop, desktop, phone).  It does take some work to get it set up, but once it is, so convenient and accessible.
> 
> If you prefer lossless over streaming/mp3 and can set it up (either yourself or have someone do it for you), I highly recommend having a music server.



I do the Server thing too with digital.  But I also have a lot of analog source that is not digitized.  Digi source is more convenient but analog sounds better 

Also, I think Mordy is only using iTunes and a browser on his Laptop, doubt he has 'RAM usage' concerns,


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> If you prefer lossless over streaming/mp3


You can have both with Tidal


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 3, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> I do the Server thing too with digital.  But I also have a lot of analog source that is not digitized.  Digi source is more convenient but analog sounds better
> 
> Also, I think Mordy is only using iTunes and a browser on his Laptop, doubt he has 'RAM usage' concerns,



My turntable is only connected to my stereo, my head-amp is all digital, unless I want to run interconnects all the way across my living room.  I've done it before, but it isn't popular with the Mrs.



leftside said:


> You can have both with Tidal



I had Tidal for a while, but there were some usability issues that drove me crazy!  Maybe it has gotten better since I last used it, I'll have to check it out.

I buy a lot of music from Bandcamp, best way to support artists who are not "made" yet I think.  Also,  a lot of their music is not available on streaming services.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> I had Tidal for a while, but there were some usability issues that drove me crazy!  Maybe it has gotten better since I last used it, I'll have to check it out.
> 
> I buy a lot of music from Bandcamp, best way to support artists who are not "made" yet I think.  Also,  a lot of their music is not available on streaming services.


I mainly use Tidal through Roon when at home, but I do use the mobile app. Might be worth a second look. I also purchase a lot of music from Bandcamp.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I do the Server thing too with digital.  But I also have a lot of analog source that is not digitized.  Digi source is more convenient but analog sounds better
> 
> Also, I think Mordy is only using iTunes and a browser on his Laptop, doubt he has 'RAM usage' concerns,


I have some 6-7000 songs on my iTunes, mostly from my CDs. Does this take up RAM?


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> I have some 6-7000 songs on my iTunes, mostly from my CDs. Does this take up RAM?



The amount of songs makes zero difference. ITunes takes up massive amounts of RAM on its own,regardless,at least that was the case about 5-6 years ago when I last used it.

ALT+CNTRL+DEL will bump up your system usage. ITunes was always taking up a massive amount of my RAM.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ITunes/comments/66o6mi/itunes_uses_lot_of_cpu_ram_on_win_10/

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3588538

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=1225489


----------



## leftside

I was getting a bit fed up carrying the 300B amp outside all the time, so decided to get a (much lighter) DAP with tubes. I can highly recommend the DX220 with AMP9 if anyone is looking for a portable solution with tubes.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> The amount of songs makes zero difference. ITunes takes up massive amounts of RAM on its own,regardless,at least that was the case about 5-6 years ago when I last used it.
> 
> ALT+CNTRL+DEL will bump up your system usage. ITunes was always taking up a massive amount of my RAM.
> 
> ...


Brought up the task manager screen. Chrome uses  1086MB, iTunes 83MB; Skype 94MB - these are the three biggest users. Memory usage is at 53% total.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
Set the volume on iTunes at 50% instead of 100%. This allows me to turn up the volume on the GOTL to Max without distortion. Too early to tell if there is an improvement in sound.


----------



## mordy (Jul 3, 2019)

Using YouTube I only need around 5-10% of the volume from the slider on the screen to allow the GOTL to run at max volume. It seems to me that the extreme ends of the FR get a boost with more powerful bass and treble using the max volume setting on the GOTL. Does this make sense?
Come to think of it, my first tube amp, the Little Dot MKIII, was always running on max amp volume by the advice of the designer.
Which leads me to the following: How about a little manual for the GOTL? Maybe a couple of the forum members could participate in writing up a simple manual.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 4, 2019)

This may sound crazy, but I do not stream any of my music,other than a few YouTube videos.

I just buy cd,s or flac music so I know the quality that I am getting. I rip the cd,s myself to flac and make my own MP3 files for listening at work, with just a cheap San Disc music player and some cheap in ears.

Does anybody else just rip their own music. I am guessing not many.
I do have a huge server tower as my pc case and it is loaded with many hard drives....works wonderful IMO.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I do Joe, I use software called Exact Audio Copy to rip CDs.  I try to get a digital FLAC copy before buying a CD so I don't have to store them.  I mostly use streaming services to find music, then I go buy it from the artist or label.  I also stream to my stereo when friends are over.  I almost always listen to entire albums, people don't seem to be into that anymore, so I have to find or make playlists so people don't get "bored" listening to the same artist for multiple tracks.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> This may sound crazy, but I do not stream any of my music,other than a few YouTube videos.
> 
> I just buy cd,s or flac music so I know the quality that I am getting. I rip the cd,s myself to flac and make my own MP3 files for listening at work, with just a cheap San Disc music player and some cheap in ears.
> 
> ...



Im the same too,save some YouTube recs that pop up.All the music I listen to all day long are locally stored files. Never used a streaming service.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> This may sound crazy, but I do not stream any of my music,other than a few YouTube videos.
> 
> I just buy cd,s or flac music so I know the quality that I am getting. I rip the cd,s myself to flac and make my own MP3 files for listening at work, with just a cheap San Disc music player and some cheap in ears.
> 
> ...


I ripped all my CD's and SACD's a long time ago. Haven't bought a CD since. FLAC files from Bandcamp and streaming FLAC from Tidal is just as good quality as a CD, without the need to use physical space to store CD's and without the need to spend the time doing the ripping.

As L0rdGywn mentions, the best thing about streaming services is to find new music. I'll often play an entire album, and then when it finishes Roon Radio + Tidal will start to play similar music to the album just played. I can't believe the amount of "new to me" music I've found this year. 

I'm far from "new-school" however, and was a luddite for a very long time where I deemed vinyl to be the only medium good enough for dedicated listening. I only singed up for streaming when Tidal integrated with Roon, and now I couldn't live without it. But, I still listen to a lot of vinyl


----------



## whirlwind

Oh wow. Nice to see I am not the only one buying my music instead of renting it.
I have never used a streaming service either Monster. I tried a free trial of tidal once ,but I never even finished the trial as there was too many albums that I could not find on there, some hard to find stuff and complete discographies.  Anyway glad to know there are more people than just me buying. I also buy digital files, not always
Cd,s
 I am also a whole album listener.   I have made many playlist but don't often listen to them.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I am also a whole album listener. I have made many playlist but don't often listen to them.



I rarely listen to whole albums in one sitting. Usually(99%) I have a particular playlist on shuffle,so it bounces from artist to artist. Playlists are key for me. When im in the mood for Johnny Cash,I dont want it being followed up by Judas Priest,and vice/versa.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> I rarely listen to whole albums in one sitting. Usually(99%) I have a particular playlist on shuffle,so it bounces from artist to artist. Playlists are key for me. When im in the mood for Johnny Cash,I dont want it being followed up by Judas Priest,and vice/versa.


And that's the beauty of Tidal + Roon. Once your Johnny Cash playlist has finished, Tidal + Roon will continue playing music similar to Johnny Cash, and you might get some welcome surprises. Don't like what it has has chosen? Simply push a button on your phone using Roon Remote to skip to the next track, and the AI of Tidal + Roon will "learn" what you like and don't like. Alright I'll shut up now - I've gone from a luddite to sounding like a zealot...


----------



## Phantaminum (Jul 4, 2019)

The ECC40s are such warm tubes. I bought two different kinds, one Holland (Philips made) and another from Mullard (says made in Great Britain). They both look to have similar builds except the Mullard has a much bigger O-getter and the foils look slightly different.

Tried to pair them with more neutral output tubes but it's as warm as a person wrapped in a thick blanket, while drinking hot chocolate, sitting in a rocking chair in front of a lit fire place. For giggles I paired them with the Bendix 6080 and decided never to do that again, lol. I think they made be a good match with the 6336Bs.

The Amperex 7316 are fantastic driver tubes and need to be heard. It's a great pairing with any warm output tube like the Tung Sol 7236/6080 or Bendix 6080. It may not throw up huge images like the 6SN7 but the extension on both end, the way it handles mids/vocals, and tonality/timbre is to die for.

Happy 4th of July everyone!


----------



## gibosi (Jul 4, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> The ECC40s are such warm tubes. I bought two different kinds, one Holland (Philips made) and another from Mullard (says made in Great Britain). They both look to have similar builds except the Mullard has a much bigger O-getter and the foils look slightly different.



Actually, the ECC40 was never manufactured by Mullard. Philips manufactured the ECC40 at Eindhoven and Sittard in Holland, Chartres and Suresnes in France, and Hamburg, Germany. Also Tungsram manufactured this tube in Hungary.

From your description I am inclined to think that your tubes were manufactured in Holland...

Edit: Can you make out the production codes? Typically they are located on the base around the pins.

To those in the US, enjoy the 4th! And if you are using fireworks, stay safe!


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> Actually, the ECC40 was never manufactured by Mullard. Philips manufactured the ECC40 at Eindhoven and Sittard in Holland, Chartres and Suresnes in France, and Hamburg, Germany. Also Tungsram manufactured this tube in Hungary.
> 
> From your description I am inclined to think that your tubes were manufactured in Holland...
> 
> ...



The one that's labelled Mullard and say Made in Great Britain has the code: LC3 =8F3

Once burned in do they change sound wise or are pretty much what you hear?


----------



## gibosi (Jul 4, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> The one that's labelled Mullard and say Made in Great Britain has the code: LC3 =8F3
> 
> Once burned in do they change sound wise or are pretty much what you hear?



In my experience, the sound doesn't change much from burning in.

"=" doesn't make sense... could it be "+" -- a plus with an underline? If so, this tube was manufactured in Chartres, France, the 3rd week of June, 1968.

LC = ECC40 and 3 is the version.
+ = Chartres, 8 = 1968, F = June and 3 = week.

By the end of the 1950's, there was very little demand for the ECC40, and all production was consolidated to Chartres.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jul 4, 2019)

gibosi said:


> Actually, the ECC40 was never manufactured by Mullard. Philips manufactured the ECC40 at Eindhoven and Sittard in Holland, Chartres and Suresnes in France, and Hamburg, Germany. Also Tungsram manufactured this tube in Hungary.
> 
> From your description I am inclined to think that your tubes were manufactured in Holland...
> 
> ...


----------



## gibosi (Jul 4, 2019)

Yep, Chartres, France.

And if these are too warm, I find Suresnes to be similar and Eindhoven and Sittard to be even warmer. (Although my ears prefer Eindhoven and Sittard production.)

So you might want to look for Hamburg (Valvo) production. The factory code is "D" and they were manufactured in the 1950's.


----------



## heliosphann (Jul 4, 2019)

Oh yea, got x6 Sylvania 6BX7GT's that are pretty quiet and are sounding great with my ECC35 and Marconi U52! Listening mostly with my Verite.






And of course I had to listen to one of my favorite Soundgarden songs today...


----------



## Monsterzero (Jul 4, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Oh yea, got x6 Sylvania 6BX7GT's that are pretty quiet and are sounding great with my ECC35 and Marconi U52! Listening mostly with my Verite.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Pretty much everything Chris Cornell did is golden. RIP. 
Congrats on finding quiet 6bx7s


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Pretty much everything Chris Cornell did is golden. RIP.
> Congrats on finding quiet 6bx7s



No doubt, really miss that dude.

Yea, the 6bx7's do have a little floor noise, but it's very low and consistent. Doesn't bother me.


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Oh yea, got x6 Sylvania 6BX7GT's that are pretty quiet and are sounding great with my ECC35 and Marconi U52! Listening mostly with my Verite.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nice top of the amp how about the bottom.


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> Nice top of the amp how about the bottom.



Shouldn't that be blurred out??? lol


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Shouldn't that be blurred out??? lol



Have to be pretty good to copy that


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> Have to be pretty good to copy that



I meant more like that image is NSFW!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Nice top of the amp how about the bottom.



I see those Jupiter caps  planning to have them in my build as well.  Hope it sounds nice @heliosphann


----------



## Monsterzero

@heliosphann 
Other than the noise,how do those Sylvanias sound with the Verite? The GE 6bx7s turn the Verite into bass cannons.

 Tonight Im rolling the Sittard GZ34+ TS 12sn7gt BGRP+ GEC 6as7g. With this Lampizator DAC the sound is silly good.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> @heliosphann
> Other than the noise,how do those Sylvanias sound with the Verite? The GE 6bx7s turn the Verite into bass cannons.
> 
> Tonight Im rolling the Sittard GZ34+ TS 12sn7gt BGRP+ GEC 6as7g. With this Lampizator DAC the sound is silly good.



Huh, I didn't find the GE 6BX7's to be incredibly bassy. They definitely hit hard and were a bit elevated in the lows. The Sylvanias sound similar, but a little more refined and balanced? Still, great dynamics with the Verite.

I'm still on the hunt for some GEC 6AS7G's.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Nice top of the amp how about the bottom.


I'd be glad to see the bottom of a Feliks Audio amp. But nobody cares.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> I'd be glad to see the bottom of a Feliks Audio amp. But nobody cares.


There are some internal pictures of the Elise from people that care, but that discussion is not for this forum. If you PM me I will explain.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> There are some internal pictures of the Elise from people that care, but that discussion is not for this forum. If you PM me I will explain.



You can post it on here i don't care.  They really are no competition.


----------



## gibosi

To those who observed fireworks on the 4th, I sincerely hope that none of those fireworks were tube related. lol


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> You can post it on here i don't care.  They really are no competition.


----------



## m17xr2b

heliosphann said:


> Oh yea, got x6 Sylvania 6BX7GT's that are pretty quiet and are sounding great with my ECC35 and Marconi U52! Listening mostly with my Verite.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That marconi is a 5U4g and not a U52, still one of the best rectifiers I've tried and better than the MOV U52 in my opinion. 

Do I see a blue DNA amp next to the Glenn? I'd love to know your thoughts about both of them. What tubes are you running in the Stratus/Stellaris?


----------



## Phantaminum

One of my output tubes directional guide broke inside the socket.  

Any recommendations on going about getting it out without damaging the socket?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 5, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> One of my output tubes directional guide broke inside the socket.
> 
> Any recommendations on going about getting it out without damaging the socket?



Obviously I defer to Glenn, but what I would do is open up the chassis from the bottom and use something to push it out, like a pencil with eraser, something that will not scratch if it comes in contact with the chassis.  Once it's out far enough, grab it from the top with some pliers.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Obviously I defer to Glenn, but what I would do is open up the chassis from the bottom and use something to push it out, like a pencil with eraser, something that will not scratch if it comes in contact with the chassis.  Once it's out far enough, grab it from the top with some pliers.


I think it happened to me once. Disconnected all cables, turned the amp upside down and the piece fell out.


----------



## gibosi

m17xr2b said:


> That marconi is a 5U4g and not a U52, still one of the best rectifiers I've tried and better than the MOV U52 in my opinion.
> 
> Do I see a blue DNA amp next to the Glenn? I'd love to know your thoughts about both of them. What tubes are you running in the Stratus/Stellaris?



That U52 appears to have been manufactured in Italy by Marconi, so it's definitely not a MOV U52. But I would hope it is electrically equivalent to a U52 and not a 5U4G. A 5U4G can provide at most 220ma, so it is maxed out in the GOTL and may not last long. Generally, it is best to use rectifiers that can provide at least 250ma when running six 6BX7.

On the other hand, given that it is labeled as a U52, it just might be fine.


----------



## mordy

Just looked at a broken guide pin that I have lying around on my preamp to act as a reminder to be careful tube rolling:



It appears to me the guide pin is not a pressure fit into the socket since there has to be some give for rocking the tube back and forth forth (rolling) for removing it.
Don't know if all guide pins are hollow, but the few broken ones I have seen are. If the guide pin really is wedged stuck, it appears to me that gently putting in a suitable size screw in the hollow of the guide pion would give enough grip to easily pull it out.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Just looked at a broken guide pin that I have lying around on my preamp to act as a reminder to be careful tube rolling:
> 
> It appears to me the guide pin is not a pressure fit into the socket since there has to be some give for rocking the tube back and forth forth (rolling) for removing it.
> Don't know if all guide pins are hollow, but the few broken ones I have seen are. If the guide pin really is wedged stuck, it appears to me that gently putting in a suitable size screw in the hollow of the guide pion would give enough grip to easily pull it out.



Thanks Mordy. Going to give this a go.  Maybe even put a little super glue around the edges and once it sticks, try to pull it out.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
After setting my iTunes volume control at a low setting so that I can listen to the GOTL with the vo


Phantaminum said:


> Thanks Mordy. Going to give this a go.  Maybe even put a little super glue around the edges and once it sticks, try to pull it out.


I tried to superglue back broken guide pins in the past but with no luck. The surfaces don't seem to mate well and the guide pins fell off after a short time. I just put on a little sliver of white self adhesive tape on the base, indicating where the location of the guide pin is, to know which position to insert the tube.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
I tried using the GOTL volume control at max or near max for a couple of days by turning down the volume control on my iTunes very low.
There seems to be a little more impact in the bass and the treble, but after listening for a while I perceive a certain harshness to the sound that does not appeal to me.
So I am back at full volume for the music servers and a low volume for the GOTL for a sweeter sound.
YMMV


----------



## m17xr2b

gibosi said:


> That U52 appears to have been manufactured in Italy by Marconi, so it's definitely not a MOV U52. But I would hope it is electrically equivalent to a U52 and not a 5U4G. A 5U4G can provide at most 220ma, so it is maxed out in the GOTL and may not last long. Generally, it is best to use rectifiers that can provide at least 250ma when running six 6BX7.
> 
> On the other hand, given that it is labeled as a U52, it just might be fine.



I'm pretty sure it's a 5U4G even if labelled U52. I believe Marconi at the time was licensed to build RCA tubes and that looks exactly as the top getter RCA 5U4G. I had that tube for a while, the glass is super thin compared with other tubes but it does sound glorious and very close to the 422A.  Even if labelled U52 the constructions looks nothing like one.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> One of my output tubes directional guide broke inside the socket.
> 
> Any recommendations on going about getting it out without damaging the socket?



Taking the bottom off and push it through is probably the best. Or you can try and push it down and let it fall down into the chassis it won't heart anything.

You can get one of these and fix the tube they work pretty good   https://www.tubedepot.com/t/diy-central/tube-sockets.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Taking the bottom off and push it through is probably the best. Or you can try and push it down and let it fall down into the chassis it won't heart anything.
> 
> You can get one of these and fix the tube they work pretty good   https://www.tubedepot.com/t/diy-central/tube-sockets.


These works. I got mine from ebay.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> There are some internal pictures of the Elise from people that care, but that discussion is not for this forum. If you PM me I will explain.


Mordy, we post the inside of Crack, a much simple design amp, all the time. No competition here.


----------



## heliosphann (Jul 5, 2019)

m17xr2b said:


> I'm pretty sure it's a 5U4G even if labelled U52. I believe Marconi at the time was licensed to build RCA tubes and that looks exactly as the top getter RCA 5U4G. I had that tube for a while, the glass is super thin compared with other tubes but it does sound glorious and very close to the 422A.  Even if labelled U52 the constructions looks nothing like one.



Yea, I noticed the construction looked nothing like some other MOV U52's. Oh well, sounds really good. Guess I need to get a real U52 and compare it.







m17xr2b said:


> That marconi is a 5U4g and not a U52, still one of the best rectifiers I've tried and better than the MOV U52 in my opinion.
> 
> Do I see a blue DNA amp next to the Glenn? I'd love to know your thoughts about both of them. What tubes are you running in the Stratus/Stellaris?



Yea, it's a Stratus. I usually run a 422a/Ken Rad 2A3/Ruby Tiger 6n1p. Don't have a ton of tubes to roll with the Stratus, but I really don't need to since I have the GOTL. Both are amazing amps.


----------



## mordy

Do the Stratus and the GOTL sound similar or very different?


----------



## gibosi

m17xr2b said:


> I'm pretty sure it's a 5U4G even if labelled U52. I believe Marconi at the time was licensed to build RCA tubes and that looks exactly as the top getter RCA 5U4G. I had that tube for a while, the glass is super thin compared with other tubes but it does sound glorious and very close to the 422A.  Even if labelled U52 the constructions looks nothing like one.



The fact that Marconi of Italy labeled this tube as a U52 is relatively meaningless. Britain had a very different naming system than the US. Each company "owned" a name for a certain tube and only that company could use that name, even though other companies made the same tube.

For example, MOV's U18/20, Mullard's FW4-500 and Cossor's 45IU are virtually identical electrically. But only MOV could use the name "U18/20". And it gets crazier. I have seen a Mullard FW4-500 rebranded as a MOV U18/20. And further, Philips in Europe could not use any of these names either. So in Europe, this tube was marketed as an AZ50.

So unless we can see a Marconi of Italy datasheet for this tube, it is impossible to know if it is electrically equivalent to a MOV U52 or the less powerful 5U4G. And again, a 5U4G is not powerful enough to use in the GOTL. But a U52 is fine.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 5, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Nice top of the amp how about the bottom.




Nice to see those jupiter caps.....also are those two 22k Ohm resistors on the driver tube?


----------



## mordy

Hi gibosi,
I am not sure if I understand you completely. Are you saying that a British company would assign a designation to a tube that nobody else could use, but at the same time they could produce the same tube with different US or European designations printed on the tube? Then you have different UK designations for the army and the navy...
What is what with these designations - they are all the same tube:
ECC31 - European name?
NR73   - Navy UK
CV1285 - Army UK?
6N7G - US designation
10E/453 - Mullard name?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> The fact that Marconi of Italy labeled this tube as a U52 is relatively meaningless. Britain had a very different naming system than the US. Each company "owned" a name for a certain tube and only that company could use that name, even though other companies made the same tube.
> 
> For example, MOV's U18/20, Mullard's FW4-500 and Cossor's 45IU are virtually identical electrically. But only MOV could use the name "U18/20". And it gets crazier. I have seen a Mullard FW4-500 rebranded as a MOV U18/20. And further, Philips in Europe could not use any of these names either. So in Europe, this tube was marketed as an AZ50.
> 
> So unless we can see a Marconi of Italy datasheet for this tube, it is impossible to know if it is electrically equivalent to a MOV U52 or the less powerful 5U4G. And again, a 5U4G is not powerful enough to use in the GOTL. But a U52 is fine.



Here is Marconi spec sheet it says 250ma
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/126/u/U52.pdf


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> I am not sure if I understand you completely. Are you saying that a British company would assign a designation to a tube that nobody else could use, but at the same time they could produce the same tube with different US or European designations printed on the tube? Then you have different UK designations for the army and the navy...
> What is what with these designations - they are all the same tube:
> ECC31 - European name?
> ...



In your example, only Mullard manufactured the ECC31, which as you correctly note, one might consider the European name. And yes, before the military began to use the Common Valve system, each branch of the military had their own name. And then more generally, there were the old "store numbers" (in your example, 10E/453) used by the British government:

https://frank.pocnet.net/other/ServiceTypes/OldStores.html

However, in my example above, there are three tubes that are roughly equivalent to a 4-volt 5U4G: U18/20, FW4-500 and 45IU. And one could add a fourth, Mazda's UU8. But each company had their own name for this tube, and these names were essentially licensed trademarks. So while Mullard, MOV, Cossor and Mazda made the same tube, they couldn't use names owned by the other companies. And then there was the European name, AZ50. Obviously, this made things quite complicated for British technicians as they had to refer to cross-referencing books to look up the equivalent tube manufactured by another company.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Here is Marconi spec sheet it says 250ma
> https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/126/u/U52.pdf



This is datasheet is for the U52 manufactured by British Marconi. Marconi in Italy was a different company, although they were started by the same individual and were related. But the Italian Marconi U52 was designed and manufactured in Italy. And we really don't know if it was simply a 5U4G manufactured under license from RCA, or if it was actually designed to be similar to the British Marconi U52.

And even British Marconi typically labeled their U52 as a 5U4G to add to the puzzle.


----------



## attmci (Jul 7, 2019)

Nice.


----------



## mordy

This Telefunken 6SN7WGTA recently sold for $713.00. What is so special about it?




https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> This Telefunken 6SN7WGTA recently sold for $713.00. What is so special about it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Mordy - I believe these were made by Standard Radio in Sweden, same as the Standard Radio 33S30B, very rare and more of a collector's item.  According to Stavros, they are very similar to the RCA 5692.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1779#post-14974009

The other Telefunken 6SN7 is the 6SN7GTA, from Western Germany, also quite pricey. @rosgr63 may know more about these rare tubes.


----------



## rosgr63

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hi Mordy - I believe these were made by Standard Radio in Sweden, same as the Standard Radio 33S30B, very rare and more of a collector's item.  According to Stavros, they are very similar to the RCA 5692.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1779#post-14974009
> 
> The other Telefunken 6SN7 is the 6SN7GTA, from Western Germany, also quite pricey. @rosgr63 may know more about these rare tubes.




I had a few of both.
They were made by Standard Radio of Sweden based on the RCA 5692 design.

They always commanded high prices, I got and sold mine at very reasonable prices.
I guess I was very lucky.


----------



## 2359glenn

I had a few days off work for the 4th and I took it easy and did some serious listening to my Aeolus.
This is a great sounding headphone almost as good as the Verite.
Used the same tubes driving them as the Verite two GEC L63 and two GEC 6AS7s this is a great combination
for the Aeolus. 
When using the Auteur I use EL3Ns for drivers for a wormier sound so they are less bright.
I am happy that I changed my amp from using #27s as drivers to L63s now I can role in EL3Ns with adapters.
I will be sending my #27s to @gibosi he might like a very quiet pair of 27s and is the only person that can use them.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I had a few days off work for the 4th and I took it easy and did some serious listening to my Aeolus.
> This is a great sounding headphone almost as good as the Verite.
> Used the same tubes driving them as the Verite two GEC L63 and two GEC 6AS7s this is a great combination
> for the Aeolus.
> ...




Nice that you find the same tube combo works for Verite and Aeolus.
Those GEC 6AS7's are quite the joy to listen to.

Do you keep the GEC 6AS7 in when you roll EL3N tubes in your amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> In your example, only Mullard manufactured the ECC31, which as you correctly note, one might consider the European name. And yes, before the military began to use the Common Valve system, each branch of the military had their own name. And then more generally, there were the old "store numbers" (in your example, 10E/453) used by the British government:
> 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/other/ServiceTypes/OldStores.html
> 
> However, in my example above, there are three tubes that are roughly equivalent to a 4-volt 5U4G: U18/20, FW4-500 and 45IU. And one could add a fourth, Mazda's UU8. But each company had their own name for this tube, and these names were essentially licensed trademarks. So while Mullard, MOV, Cossor and Mazda made the same tube, they couldn't use names owned by the other companies. And then there was the European name, AZ50. Obviously, this made things quite complicated for British technicians as they had to refer to cross-referencing books to look up the equivalent tube manufactured by another company.



This is crazy in wartime if a tube went bad in a plane they have to be looking in substitution books wasting time.
This still goes on when micro possessors were evolving / upgraded it went up to the 486 then rather then going to the 586 Intel went to the Pentium. 
Because a number couldn't be patented. And AMD had the same chip under a different name.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 7, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Nice that you find the same tube combo works for Verite and Aeolus.
> Those GEC 6AS7's are quite the joy to listen to.
> 
> Do you keep the GEC 6AS7 in when you roll EL3N tubes in your amp.



Yes I do they are completely quiet and sound great no need to try anything else at this point.
Only problem is I can here noise when using EL3N as drivers. Not surprised as these were meant
for power output tubes. But it is tolerable and can't here it with music playing.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hi Mordy - I believe these were made by Standard Radio in Sweden, same as the Standard Radio 33S30B, very rare and more of a collector's item.  According to Stavros, they are very similar to the RCA 5692.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1779#post-14974009
> 
> The other Telefunken 6SN7 is the 6SN7GTA, from Western Germany, also quite pricey. @rosgr63 may know more about these rare tubes.


Hi LG,
Thanks for the information-now I know what these tubes are. They were developed for Swedish artillery use and special efforts were made to make them shockproof with extra support rods and micas.
I haven’t heard them, but it seems to me that  certain sellers were able to hype them up because of the rarity - I have seen pairs priced at $3300.
Funny, but nobody makes a big deal of Bendix tubes and others being able to withstand 500G.
It’s all marketing. GE invented the gold grid and you never hear about it, but it is a selling point for some Russian tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

This album is killer with GEL3N and LCD-3


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Yes I do they are completely quiet and sound great no need to try anything else at this point.
> Only problem is I can here noise when using EL3N as drivers. Not surprised as these were meant
> for power output tubes. But it is tolerable and can't here it with music playing.


Interesting... I'm sure Dejan could also build these.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6J5-Tube-adapter/192841514597


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I will be sending my #27s to @gibosi he might like a very quiet pair of 27s



Thank you! Yes indeed very quiet 27's are hard to find.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Interesting... I'm sure Dejan could also build these.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6J5-Tube-adapter/192841514597



I already have the Chinese ones but Deyan is making me a pair should have them done tomorrow.
He is going to make it with a snubber resistor between screen grid and plate.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I already have the Chinese ones but Deyan is making me a pair should have them done tomorrow.
> He is going to make it with a snubber resistor between screen grid and plate.



Does this help eliminate EMI ?


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 7, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Does this help eliminate EMI ?



Yes and it keeps the tube from oscillating.
Your EL3N amp has these resistors in it. And snubber resistors on the control grid.


----------



## mordy (Jul 7, 2019)

Decided to sort out some 25 odd 6SN7 tubes that I have. Most of them are used and bought in miscellaneous lots.
I have trouble dating some of them since the markings are missing. Here is a Raytheon 6SN7GT:



No other markings visible - should I assume that this tube is from 40's?
Next is a smoked glass RCA  VT-231 with date code (?) in yellow. I am not sure if it says 3128. Could this tube be from 1943?



The last one for now is a RCA with dual side getters - haven't seen this on other tubes.
I have it listed as 6SN7GTB.






The date code is March 1955.
What is the purpose of dual side getters? RCA made the same tube with a single getter as well.


----------



## Velozity

2359glenn said:


> You can post it on here i don't care.  They really are no competition.




LOVE THIS!

#ampshade


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 7, 2019)

gibosi said:


> Thank you! Yes indeed very quiet 27's are hard to find.



PM me your address.

They are not globe tubes but ST and are rare ones


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> I already have the Chinese ones but Deyan is making me a pair should have them done tomorrow.
> He is going to make it with a snubber resistor between screen grid and plate.



Is the snubber resistor in the EL3N adapter also recommended for the GOTL C3g sockets?


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> Is the snubber resistor in the EL3N adapter also recommended for the GOTL C3g sockets?



If the adapter is straight through control grid to control grid and screen grid to screen grid the resistors are already in the amp.
If going to a C3g socket.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> If the adapter is straight through control grid to control grid and screen grid to screen grid the resistors are already in the amp.
> If going to a C3g socket.



Thanks.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 8, 2019)

I don't want to derail this thread with music, but I just had to share this. I have been keeping an eye on this young man ever since I heard that Buddy Guy was his mentor a couple of years ago.
He is Christone Kingfish Ingram...I hope he is around for a long time.
Such a fantastic voice and just incredible skill on the guitar.
I have listened to his album all morning and afternoon...different amps and headphones.

In school he said everybody wanted to play rap music, but  he wanted to be different...I first heard of him at 18 years old and he is now 20 years old and has a debut album.
The kid has young blood but he has old soul and you can feel his music.
This video is rather long, but there are some killer moments in it!



His debut album is called KINGFISH




Okay...now back to the regular scheduled programming


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 8, 2019)

For my tube rectified folks, not sure how useful it is in the GOTL, but if anyone is interested in having a Japanese Nippon Electric 5Y3-GT, shoot me a PM, happy to send it their way free of charge.  My GOTL will be HEXFRED, so I have no use for it.  Untested, but hey it's free!

Also, if anyone has a source for a decently priced pair of EL3N, shoot me a PM, I would appreciate it.

Edit:  5Y3 is claimed


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> For my tube rectified folks, not sure how useful it is in the GOTL, but if anyone is interested in having a Japanese Nippon Electric 5Y3-GT, shoot me a PM, happy to send it their way free of charge.  My GOTL will be HEXFRED, so I have no use for it.  Untested, but hey it's free!
> 
> Also, if anyone has a source for a decently priced pair of EL3N, shoot me a PM, I would appreciate it.



Not powerful enough for the OTL only rated at 125ma but someone with the EL3N amp can use it.
I gave Joe a #80 globe rectifier it is the predecessor of the 5Y3 same ratings with a 4 pin base.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Not powerful enough for the OTL only rated at 125ma but someone with the EL3N amp can use it.
> I gave Joe a #80 globe rectifier it is the predecessor of the 5Y3 same ratings with a 4 pin base.



Got it, thanks Glenn.  My offer stands


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> I don't want to derail this thread with music, but I just had to share this. I have been keeping an eye on this young man ever since I heard that Buddy Guy was his mentor a couple of years ago.
> He is Christone Kingfish Ingram...I hope he is around for a long time.
> Such a fantastic voice and just incredible skill on the guitar.
> I have listened to his album all morning and afternoon...different amps and headphones.
> ...


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I don't want to derail this thread with music, but I just had to share this. I have been keeping an eye on this young man ever since I heard that Buddy Guy was his mentor a couple of years ago.
> He is Christone Kingfish Ingram...I hope he is around for a long time.
> Such a fantastic voice and just incredible skill on the guitar.
> I have listened to his album all morning and afternoon...different amps and headphones.
> ...




This kid smokes! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 9, 2019)

I have kind of a funny story, and a major victory for me.

I've been looking for a match to a single 5998 I have on hand to use in the GOTL.  It is probably placebo, but to me the 5998s with the copper grid rods sound a little more airy and detailed, but they are much less common.  I finally found one with the same construction as mine and a date code just a few weeks off.  New in box, so I got excited I bought despite it being *untested.
*
Well it arrived today, let's have a look...hmmm.



Things were looking a little more....crooked in person than I had anticipated, more crooked than I've EVER seen in a 5998.  Surely it is just because the glass itself is a little crooked, not a problem right?  WRONG.

All of the internals have been shifted as a result of the glass being misshapen.  How this passed QC, I have no idea.  I popped it in my amp, and there was a HORRIBLE 60 Hz hum in the left channel with no music passed.  Needless to say, I was devastated since the seller did not accept returns.

I decided it was worth some more investigation.  I got out my multimeter and checked continuity between the pins.  Sure enough, there was a heater to cathode short in one triode from everything being shifted.  The wires were just_ barely_ touching.



So how to fix it?  The most tried and true method of fixing broken electronics of course, BRUTE FORCE!!!

I wrapped it in a towel, and whacked it against my hand ten to fifteen times.  Two more attempts and I got probably 1/2 mm between the heater and cathode wires.  Put it in my amp, and IT WORKS, DEAD SILENT!!!

I really didn't think it was going to, I am so relieved.  What is the lesson? Don't buy untested tubes?  Of course not.  The lesson is when in doubt, whack something against something to fix it.


----------



## rosgr63

Occasionally mica pollution can make a tube noisy.
A very gentle shake can force the pollution fall at the bottom and the tube becomes quiet again.
It can happen after tubes travel.


----------



## mordy

rosgr63 said:


> Occasionally mica pollution can make a tube noisy.
> A very gentle shake can force the pollution fall at the bottom and the tube becomes quiet again.
> It can happen after tubes travel.


Interesting to read about different methods of fixing tubes.
I have two 6336 tubes that both light up but no sound. Is there anything I could try to fix them?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

mordy said:


> Interesting to read about different methods of fixing tubes.
> I have two 6336 tubes that both light up but no sound. Is there anything I could try to fix them?


Have you smashed it against a table yet?


----------



## Deyan

mordy said:


> Interesting to read about different methods of fixing tubes.
> I have two 6336 tubes that both light up but no sound. Is there anything I could try to fix them?



If you have a powerful enough power supply you can overload them for a short period of time. 95% of the time it helps. Overload as in no 0 volts on the control grid ( not disconnected ) and leave it like that for a minute or two.


----------



## mordy

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> Have you smashed it against a table yet?


Hi BNG,
I once took pictures of smashing an EL3N tube with a hammer (it had shorted out due to a bad adapter and blew my amp) and a forum member got so upset that he left the blog.....


----------



## mordy

Deyan said:


> If you have a powerful enough power supply you can overload them for a short period of time. 95% of the time it helps. Overload as in no 0 volts on the control grid ( not disconnected ) and leave it like that for a minute or two.


 PC
Hi Deyan,
I am not clear on how to it. Have a 15A 12V PC PS that I can use with a voltage regulator.
How should I set it up? Connect to a socket with only heaters connected?


----------



## Deyan

Heater, plate and screen supply are necessary. G1 can be supplied with a variable divider ( potentiometer ). It is best to only rectify and NOT filter the voltages. I don't have the ability to make a video of the entire setup otherwise there are quite a lot of things I want to show.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

mordy said:


> Hi BNG,
> I once took pictures of smashing an EL3N tube with a hammer (it had shorted out due to a bad adapter and blew my amp) and a forum member got so upset that he left the blog.....


What?!!!

Wow that person needs to relax... I advise they listen to a custom made Glenn OTL, and call me in the morning.

(Btw- Id smash the tube as well if it blew my amp!)


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Hi BNG,
> I once took pictures of smashing an EL3N tube with a hammer (it had shorted out due to a bad adapter and blew my amp) and a forum member got so upset that he left the blog.....



Wow, maybe they were a distant relative of that tube?  Or had a traumatic accident involving a hammer? Trying to find a logical reason to react that way and failing.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> PC
> Hi Deyan,
> I am not clear on how to it. Have a 15A 12V PC PS that I can use with a voltage regulator.
> How should I set it up? Connect to a socket with only heaters connected?



No you have to hook voltage to the plate and cathode with 0 on the grid the tube will draw lots of current. So you need a high voltage variable power supply.
This is like a old picture tube rejuvenater it works sometimes but the tube will never be 100% again.
Oh you do need to hook power to the filament too so the tube will conduct.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Wow, maybe they were a distant relative of that tube?  Or had a traumatic accident involving a hammer? Trying to find a logical reason to react that way and failing.



It wasn't on this forum.
No worries it won't blow the OTL


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> No you have to hook voltage to the plate and cathode with 0 on the grid the tube will draw lots of current. So you need a high voltage variable power supply.
> This is like a old picture tube rejuvenater it works sometimes but the tube will never be 100% again.
> Oh you do need to hook power to the filament too so the tube will conduct.




I remember we had a B&K picture tube rejuvenator...could give whatever gun that was low, red, blue or green a jolt  and sometimes get some more life out of the picture tube.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Wow, maybe they were a distant relative of that tube?  Or had a traumatic accident involving a hammer? Trying to find a logical reason to react that way and failing.


Hi LG,
I did not smash that tube out of frustration. This guy I mentioned asked why I did it as well. 
The reason was that I could not use it for anything else, except to break the glass to examine the internal construction. The glass envelope is completely opaque and you cannot see what is inside an EL3N tube, and nobody knew the internal structure.Turns out it has large oval plates like an oil drum.
The funny thing was that the glass was much stronger than I thought, and it took three tries until it broke. Obviously, since I wanted to preserve the internal structure, I did not hit it very hard, but it still took more force than I anticipated.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> I did not smash that tube out of frustration. This guy I mentioned asked why I did it as well.
> The reason was that I could not use it for anything else, except to break the glass to examine the internal construction. The glass envelope is completely opaque and you cannot see what is inside an EL3N tube, and nobody knew the internal structure.Turns out it has large oval plates like an oil drum.
> The funny thing was that the glass was much stronger than I thought, and it took three tries until it broke. Obviously, since I wanted to preserve the internal structure, I did not hit it very hard, but it still took more force than I anticipated.



Got it Mordy, thought this was an act of vengeance.  Still can't imagine leaving a forum because someone else decided to break open their own tube!


----------



## Mizicke5273 (Jul 9, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> This kid smokes! Thanks for sharing.



Agreed.  Just bought the album and listening to it on Tidal now.

I should add I'm just listening on my phone; can't wait to listen on my main rig!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

My GOTL tube shopping spree is coming to a close, thanks to all who contributed to the thread and gave their recommendations, tons of valuable information that I appreciate.  I am buying this amp to tube roll, and tube roll I shall!  Here is my master list that no one asked for  looking forward to giving impressions in the future.


----------



## mordy (Jul 9, 2019)

Found the pictures:








All in the interest of science of course.....


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I remember we had a B&K picture tube rejuvenator...could give whatever gun that was low, red, blue or green a jolt  and sometimes get some more life out of the picture tube.



Yes it works sometimes
All you really need is a variac milliamp meter and power to light the tube.
Light the tube turn up the variac until the current goes over the rating of the tube.
The tube will act like a rectifier and only conduct on 1/2 o the sine wave Just do this for 30 sec or so.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Found the pictures:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First thing that came to mind.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Found the pictures:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The EL3N tubes look to be built pretty rugged by the looks of your picture.





Mizicke5273 said:


> Agreed.  Just bought the album and listening to it on Tidal now.
> 
> I should add I'm just listening on my phone; can't wait to listen on my main rig!




I am listening to it again right now....great album.


----------



## mordy (Jul 9, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> The EL3N tubes look to be built pretty rugged by the looks of your picture.
> 
> 
> There was also this 35 year old stale smell that came out of the tube - don't know what it was; I thought that there was vacuum in a tube, but maybe some kind of inert gas.
> Agree that it looks very rugged, and they run very cool at all times.


----------



## mordy (Jul 9, 2019)

I have this picture on Google Pictures but as much as I try I cannot post it - don't know why since the others showed up.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> My GOTL tube shopping spree is coming to a close, thanks to all who contributed to the thread and gave their recommendations, tons of valuable information that I appreciate.  I am buying this amp to tube roll, and tube roll I shall!  Here is my master list that no one asked for  looking forward to giving impressions in the future.


Hi LG,
Wow - that's some list! Should keep you busy for many months!


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> My GOTL tube shopping spree is coming to a close, thanks to all who contributed to the thread and gave their recommendations, tons of valuable information that I appreciate.  I am buying this amp to tube roll, and tube roll I shall!  Here is my master list that no one asked for  looking forward to giving impressions in the future.


Just need a GEC/MOV B36, ECC33 and a 6SL7 such as the Mullard ECC35 to round things off


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> My GOTL tube shopping spree is coming to a close, thanks to all who contributed to the thread and gave their recommendations, tons of valuable information that I appreciate.  I am buying this amp to tube roll, and tube roll I shall!  Here is my master list that no one asked for  looking forward to giving impressions in the future.



And it never ends...  There will always be one more to try.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> Wow - that's some list! Should keep you busy for many months!



Thanks, Mordy, months at the very least I hope!  Years perhaps?  Who am I kidding.



leftside said:


> Just need a GEC/MOV B36, ECC33 and a 6SL7 such as the Mullard ECC35 to round things off



HA!  Just when my wallet is coming up for a breath, I strike an absolute deathblow with MOV B36 and Mullard ECC33/5.  We will see!



gibosi said:


> And it never ends...  There will always be one more to try.



I am sorry to say it's true, the list is already on the verge of being outdated!  But a very worthy addition I think and a good price, offer pending


----------



## mordy (Jul 9, 2019)

Here is the picture I tried to upload. I think it is safe to say that they don't make them like that any more - these tubes should be good for more than 10,000 hours (obviously not this broken one!)


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 10, 2019)

I may have a tube to add to @Zachik 's list, one I have not seen discussed here or really at all on Head-Fi, the 12J5, 1/2 a 12SN7, analogous to the 6J5.

I have asked Deyan if my incoming 6J5 adapter could also be used with 12J5 tubes and the 12.6 V heater setting on the GOTL.

If that is the case, for those with a 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter, or even if a separate adapter is needed, these are a real bargain.  Maybe nothing special, but another cheap option.

Looking at this listing in particular: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-J...udio-Radio-Amp-Glass-Vacuum-Tube/351749123600

Essentially a 1944 Tung Sol 12SN7 for $20 plus shipping. I have asked the seller for an unboxed photo, but I believe these are ladder-style plates, like the picture below:


----------



## mordy

A quick search revealed that the 12J5 only comes in straight glass, but it appears that the 6J5 is available as a ST Type in addition to all metal and straight glass:




No black glass though....
My guess is that a 2x6J5 to 6SN7 adapter will work on the 12V setting for the 12CJ5 tubes, but I may be wrong.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> I may have a tube to add to @Zachik 's list, one I have not seen discussed here or really at all on Head-Fi, the 12J5, 1/2 a 12SN7, analogous to the 6J5.
> 
> I have asked Deyan if my incoming 6J5 adapter could also be used with 12J5 tubes and the 12.6 V heater setting on the GOTL.



Let me know. I will gladly add to my list once confirmed it's compatible.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> A quick search revealed that the 12J5 only comes in straight glass, but it appears that the 6J5 is available as a ST Type in addition to all metal and straight glass:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's right, Mordy, the 12J5 only comes in GT straight glass version and there is no European equivalent from my research.



Zachik said:


> Let me know. I will gladly add to my list once confirmed it's compatible.



Deyan sees no reason a 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter would not work with 12J5 tubes, best to ask the amp maker too!  I will post pictures of that Tung Sol 12J5 if the seller sends them.


----------



## Deyan

mordy said:


> A quick search revealed that the 12J5 only comes in straight glass, but it appears that the 6J5 is available as a ST Type in addition to all metal and straight glass:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My adapter has them in parallel. So the amp is set on 6.3 volts. If 12J5 tubes are used then the heater supply should be set to 12,6 volts.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 10, 2019)

Here is another bulk listing of 12J5GT tubes, Sylvanias, $25 USD free shipping.  From our buddy Jim at Vacuum Tubes Inc.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Ma...J5GT-Vacuum-Tubes-Same-1946-Date/163609640029


----------



## 2359glenn

Deyan said:


> My adapter has them in parallel. So the amp is set on 6.3 volts. If 12J5 tubes are used then the heater supply should be set to 12,6 volts.



It will work fine with 12J5 and the amp set to 12 volts.


----------



## 2359glenn

2359glenn said:


> It will work fine with 12J5 and the amp set to 12 volts.



You can get nice round plate 6J5 , 12J5 for cheep.
I only use 6J5/L63 in my amp I don't even have a 6SN7 socket.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is another bulk listing of 12J5GT tubes, Sylvanias, $25 USD free shipping.  From our buddy Jim at Vacuum Tubes Inc.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Ma...J5GT-Vacuum-Tubes-Same-1946-Date/163609640029


I think I saw the 12J5 at ESRC1 for $4 each.


----------



## Zachik

Added 12J5 to my compatibility table


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> My GOTL tube shopping spree is coming to a close, thanks to all who contributed to the thread and gave their recommendations, tons of valuable information that I appreciate.  I am buying this amp to tube roll, and tube roll I shall!  Here is my master list that no one asked for  looking forward to giving impressions in the future.



There is enough combos there that it will drive you crazy  .
The crazier thing is that most of those combos will sound great in the GOTL.
No way you roll through all of those in a couple of months!!








mordy said:


> Here is the picture I tried to upload. I think it is safe to say that they don't make them like that any more - these tubes should be good for more than 10,000 hours (obviously not this broken one!)




Thanks for posting this mordy, great picture!

You are so right about how cool these tubes run......the GOTL chassis feels like a fire pit compared to GEL3N chassis after being on for a few hours.....the only heat from the GEL3N is from the rectifier.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Hey guys, how have you been? Admittedly I’ve not been spending much time with the GEL3N recently due to my relentless traveling schedule, it’s a pity that the GEL3N has only been on for less than 30mins for the past 3 months. Anyway now with my travels winding down, I have more time to indulge in my audio obsessions. 

I bought an iBasso DX220 and Noble Savant II to keep me company during my travels and this pairing sounded fantastic when I was on the road. With iBasso announcing the nutube based amp9 module, I thought why not pair the iBasso DX220 with my unused BHC to drive my Massdrop HD6XX. I was immediately taken by the sound quality and spent the entire Monday listening to this combo. The iBasso DX220 is a wonderfully capable source while the BHC brings out the best qualities of the HD6XX. The HD6XX sounds dynamic, engaging and realistic with this combo and I am left wondering why I bothered spending so much on my audio pursuits. 

However as I continued listening to the iBasso/BHC/HD6XX combo, I can’t help but feel that it only sounds good at low and mid volumes. As I cranked up the volume on my favourite tracks, I started to notice that the treble is now getting slightly harsh and the mids gained a “shouty” tone to it. In order to remain in the sweet spot, I lowered the volume and all lushness is restored. 

After spending a whole day with the BHC/HD6XX, I knew I was ready to get reacquainted with my beloved GEL3N. After turning on the other components in the chain (innuos zen server -> Chord Blu II -> Chord Hugo TT2), I left the GEL3N to warm up for a good 30mins before plugging in the Abyss Phi CC. As I hit play on the first album (AC/DC’s Highway to Hell), I started grinning. Ahh.. this sounds so right. The bass hits fast and with authority, sub-bass is clean and the attack of the cymbals are fast and relentless. And the best thing is this gets even more intense as I crank up the volume. The GEL3N is a wonderful match for the Phi CC and this combo is wonderfully dynamic. Man.. how I missed listening to my “good” system. As the tracks continued playing, 1 hour become 2 and before I realised it, I spent a good 4 hours straight listening and I’ve enjoyed every second of it. 

Happy listening!


----------



## leftside

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey guys, how have you been? Admittedly I’ve not been spending much time with the GEL3N recently due to my relentless traveling schedule, it’s a pity that the GEL3N has only been on for less than 30mins for the past 3 months. Anyway now with my travels winding down, I have more time to indulge in my audio obsessions.
> 
> I bought an iBasso DX220 and Noble Savant II to keep me company during my travels and this pairing sounded fantastic when I was on the road. With iBasso announcing the nutube based amp9 module, I thought why not pair the iBasso DX220 with my unused BHC to drive my Massdrop HD6XX. I was immediately taken by the sound quality and spent the entire Monday listening to this combo. The iBasso DX220 is a wonderfully capable source while the BHC brings out the best qualities of the HD6XX. The HD6XX sounds dynamic, engaging and realistic with this combo and I am left wondering why I bothered spending so much on my audio pursuits.
> 
> ...


The DX220 with AMP8 or AMP9 is a great portable solution and it's quite amazing the sound quality produced by such a small form, but as you've found and something I agree with, there's nothing quite like a "slightly heavier" DAC + amp.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey guys, how have you been? Admittedly I’ve not been spending much time with the GEL3N recently due to my relentless traveling schedule, it’s a pity that the GEL3N has only been on for less than 30mins for the past 3 months. Anyway now with my travels winding down, I have more time to indulge in my audio obsessions.
> 
> I bought an iBasso DX220 and Noble Savant II to keep me company during my travels and this pairing sounded fantastic when I was on the road. With iBasso announcing the nutube based amp9 module, I thought why not pair the iBasso DX220 with my unused BHC to drive my Massdrop HD6XX. I was immediately taken by the sound quality and spent the entire Monday listening to this combo. The iBasso DX220 is a wonderfully capable source while the BHC brings out the best qualities of the HD6XX. The HD6XX sounds dynamic, engaging and realistic with this combo and I am left wondering why I bothered spending so much on my audio pursuits.
> 
> ...




Welcome back.  Glad you are enjoying your amp again.
It is pretty amazing really at how well the HD6XX scale ....those headphones have definitely stood the test of time and sound better and better when the rest of the chain gets an upgrade, they just seem to keep on giving.
It is no wonder that they have the great reputation that they do....many people stay happy right at this point of audio.

I have been slowly on the look out for a nice WE422A that is fairly reasonably priced.


----------



## carlman14

Hey all,

Like other are doing, I've also been trying to stock up on tubes for my upcoming GOTL. I have a question about buying matched tubes though. On ebay, I generally see two systems of tube ratings. First being a percentage, like they will say the tube tests 90%. The second way is a xx/xx value, such as "tests 55/56". My question is, are both of these systems valid for buying matched tubes, is one more reliable than the other, or should both ratings be present to trust that the tubes are matched?


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I have been slowly on the look out for a nice WE422A that is fairly reasonably priced.



Hey Joe, Im on the hunt for a 422a as well. If you find one on an auction site let me know so were not outbidding each other.


----------



## Deyan

carlman14 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Like other are doing, I've also been trying to stock up on tubes for my upcoming GOTL. I have a question about buying matched tubes though. On ebay, I generally see two systems of tube ratings. First being a percentage, like they will say the tube tests 90%. The second way is a xx/xx value, such as "tests 55/56". My question is, are both of these systems valid for buying matched tubes, is one more reliable than the other, or should both ratings be present to trust that the tubes are matched?



Well if I'm doing the matching it will be like that:


 

After the test its only a matter of overlaying the test sheets. But sadly I'm almost all out of tubes and haven't switched on the curve plotter in months.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Hey Joe, Im on the hunt for a 422a as well. If you find one on an auction site let me know so were not outbidding each other.




Sure thing, will do absolutely.

Thanks for the heads up


----------



## carlman14

Deyan said:


> After the test its only a matter of overlaying the test sheets. But sadly I'm almost all out of tubes and haven't switched on the curve plotter in months.



Hey Deyan,

To be clear, I don't have testing equipment. I'm more referring to ebay posts that list "matched" tubes. They either say that the tubes are matched because they both test at the same percentage, or they say the tubes are matched because they have the same XX/XX values. I was mostly curious to know if one testing system is more telling as to whether or not the tubes are actually matched.

For instance, if an ebay post says "Both tubes test 98%", can those tubes be trusted to be matched? Likewise, if a post says "Both tubes test 78/90", can those be trusted to be match as well?


----------



## Deyan

I guess the 78/90 option is better. Or specified test conditions like Ua=** Ug1=** Ug2=** and then the plate current and mutual conductance is the best option.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 10, 2019)

carlman14 said:


> Hey Deyan,
> 
> To be clear, I don't have testing equipment. I'm more referring to ebay posts that list "matched" tubes. They either say that the tubes are matched because they both test at the same percentage, or they say the tubes are matched because they have the same XX/XX values. I was mostly curious to know if one testing system is more telling as to whether or not the tubes are actually matched.
> 
> For instance, if an ebay post says "Both tubes test 98%", can those tubes be trusted to be matched? Likewise, if a post says "Both tubes test 78/90", can those be trusted to be match as well?


Those are just 2 different ways of saying the same thing.  For instance if the tube test at 90/90, and a new tube test at 100/100, then the tube would have balance triodes at 90%.  Now the real questions are, did the seller really test the tubes, and are their testers actually calibrated.  It helps to find reliable sellers, and stick with them.  Also, ask what their testers NOS values are, if they are not provided, to get a frame of reference.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> There is enough combos there that it will drive you crazy  .
> The crazier thing is that most of those combos will sound great in the GOTL.
> No way you roll through all of those in a couple of months!!



That's what I'm thinking, Joe, it will be physically impossible!

Let's see...38 different drivers, 16 different output tubes, 3 major high Z headphones I listen to puts me at...1,824 different listening combinations.  If I listen to five different combos every day, I could finish in a year 

Many of the 6SN7s and 6AS7s I owned before getting in line for the GOTL, so I know what they have to offer, I'll likely start with the new guys, the 6N7s, the 6BX7s, and the different pentodes.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Here is the picture I tried to upload. I think it is safe to say that they don't make them like that any more - these tubes should be good for more than 10,000 hours (obviously not this broken one!)



Great picture, thanks mordy. 
Always wanted to see the inside of this tube, now I don't have to smash one myself.


----------



## 2359glenn

carlman14 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Like other are doing, I've also been trying to stock up on tubes for my upcoming GOTL. I have a question about buying matched tubes though. On ebay, I generally see two systems of tube ratings. First being a percentage, like they will say the tube tests 90%. The second way is a xx/xx value, such as "tests 55/56". My question is, are both of these systems valid for buying matched tubes, is one more reliable than the other, or should both ratings be present to trust that the tubes are matched?



You should try to buy NOS tubes matched is not that important. You don't want used tubes that are TV pulls and are noisy.


----------



## mordy

carlman14 said:


> Hey Deyan,
> 
> To be clear, I don't have testing equipment. I'm more referring to ebay posts that list "matched" tubes. They either say that the tubes are matched because they both test at the same percentage, or they say the tubes are matched because they have the same XX/XX values. I was mostly curious to know if one testing system is more telling as to whether or not the tubes are actually matched.
> 
> For instance, if an ebay post says "Both tubes test 98%", can those tubes be trusted to be matched? Likewise, if a post says "Both tubes test 78/90", can those be trusted to be match as well?


Hi c14,
IMHO it is not necessary to get tubes that are matching exactly. I have been told that even a 10% difference was considered acceptable in the production of tubes. Perhaps tubes intended for military use had smaller tolerances.
As mentioned above, test values are meaningless unless you have reference points. Tube testers use different scales, are calibrated differently etc etc. There is a definitive trend among sellers to be misleading and just state values or write "Tested" and leave it to guesswork what it means.
Regarding percentages you have to know what the NOS values are - I assume 100% means up to factory specifications. Sometimes you can see tubes that measure even higher - 104/105%.
Then you need to know which percentage on that tester is minimum good. My impression is that that number many times is 65%.
If other methods are used such as a number like 55/60, you have to know what values are NOS and minimum good. Without that information the numbers are useless.
A case in point: Some cat recently advertised a pair of GEC 6AS7G/A1834 as "Opened - never used" and testing :

1) GEC 6AS7G A1834 tested 28/28mA good emission 3.2mA/V
2) GEC 6AS7G A1834 tested 30/31mA good emission 3.4mA/V
(This pair sold for $436 to an unsuspecting buyer)
When I asked the seller what minimum good is, and what the NOS value is, I got the following answer: 

*it is from 35mA
NOS from 40mA
do not bid if you have doubts
*
The seller sold tubes testing below minimum good and described them as "Opened - never used." I guess he was perfectly honest in everything he stated......

As they say: Buyer Beware! *Caveat Emptor!*


----------



## carlman14

Thanks everyone for the info! I appreciate the feedback. I'll take this into consideration when scouring ebay for tubes. That's interesting that tubes don't necessarily need to be matched. 

One more question for the 6bx7 rollers out there: Should all six 6bx7's be matched with each other (or at least similar)? Or is the requirement that the individual pairs of 6bx7's should be similar, and each of the 3 pairs can be different from each other?


----------



## leftside

Good info @mordy. Also, most modern tube amps will be quite happy with 2 tubes that are not closely matched, as Glenn mentions. This is why I like modern tube amps with vintage tubes 

There are lot's of good tube testers out there. Check out the tube testers that known sellers like alibossa are using. Sellers like Langrex (yitry) you can trust if they simply say NOS. You have to be a little more careful with (mesin)cat and it's always wise to ask him direct questions about his tubes before bidding on eBay. Our good friend on here rosgr63 should be your first port of call if looking for the best NOS tubes


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 10, 2019)

carlman14 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Like other are doing, I've also been trying to stock up on tubes for my upcoming GOTL. I have a question about buying matched tubes though. On ebay, I generally see two systems of tube ratings. First being a percentage, like they will say the tube tests 90%. The second way is a xx/xx value, such as "tests 55/56". My question is, are both of these systems valid for buying matched tubes, is one more reliable than the other, or should both ratings be present to trust that the tubes are matched?



Hey Carlman14, I found this article informative, discusses a bit about tube matching what is actually measured.  It is from a tube sales website, so keep that in mind.

http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/tubmatdem.html

The major takeaways are the following:

1) The three variables that make up a triode's operation are Mu (voltage gain), Gm (transconductance) and Rp (plate resistance).  Mu = Gm x Rp.  Mu, the voltage gain, is what is actually heard in your amp.
2) Tube testers most often measure Gm and assume Rp is constant, so matched Gm would then give you matched Mu.  Gm is an indirect way of measuring Mu.
3) The writer of the article argues that Rp may not be constant in two tubes, so Gm testers are not truly giving you matched tubes and it was more of a marketing ploy at the time.  The only way to really match tubes is to measure Mu, or both Gm and Rp to calculate Mu, which is almost never done.
4) Here is the big one: *as a tube ages, as long as the emissions are greater than approximately 70%, all three parameters will remain stable throughout its usable life.
*
For number 4, that means if you buy NOS tubes, they will operate at their NOS voltage gain as long as the emissions are > 70%.  Long story short, buy NOS or close to it, and you are good to go 

I'm sure our electrical engineers can say whether or not this article is accurate.  Either way, it will teach you a thing or two about tube matching.


----------



## mordy

carlman14 said:


> Thanks everyone for the info! I appreciate the feedback. I'll take this into consideration when scouring ebay for tubes. That's interesting that tubes don't necessarily need to be matched.
> 
> One more question for the 6bx7 rollers out there: Should all six 6bx7's be matched with each other (or at least similar)? Or is the requirement that the individual pairs of 6bx7's should be similar, and each of the 3 pairs can be different from each other?


Re the 6BX7 I would say that it is enough that each pair should be the same. It is difficult today to source a sextet of identical 6BX7 tubes. And you may discover, as I did, that the three pairs I have labeled GE, RCA and Philco(usually Sylvania), are all made by GE.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey Carlman14, I found this article informative, discusses a bit about tube matching what is actually measured.  It is from a tube sales website, so keep that in mind.
> 
> http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/tubmatdem.html
> 
> ...


Hi LG,
Read through the article but came away knowing less lol. If i understood correctly, the main parameter is voltage gain (MU) and no commercial tester can measure this. The regular testers measure transconductance (GM)  because it is easy to measure,
but it does not 
 tell the real story about the condition of the tube. Plate resistance (Rp) is almost never measured. MU is GMxRp.
The author of the article developed a megadollar machine that can measure MU. His advice is to buy only NOS tubes that have been tested for proper MU. Then you can buy an inexpensive emissions tester and based on this baseline monitor the health of your tubes.

Which leaves me with my built in personal two channel tube tester.....


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 10, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> Read through the article but came away knowing less lol. If i understood correctly, the main parameter is voltage gain (MU) and no commercial tester can measure this. The regular testers measure transconductance (GM)  because it is easy to measure,
> but it does not
> tell the real story about the condition of the tube. Plate resistance (Rp) is almost never measured. MU is GMxRp.
> ...



Hey Mordy - I think you got it, those were his main points!  Based on that simple equation, if Rp is constant, and you know Gm, then you can calculate Mu.  So if two tubes have the same Gm, then they have the same Mu because Rp is constant.  He is claiming that Rp is not actually constant and there are variances from tube to tube.  What I don't know is if these variances in plate resistance are large enough to cause an audible channel imbalance, like he claims.  Also, buying tubes that are tested for Mu is a luxury probably no one has access to, especially on eBay.  Another thing I don't think he addresses are real-world operating conditions, which tube testers are not known for replicating.

I mostly posted it as a good overview of what tube testers are measuring and why for Carlman14.

You can always take the Doc. B from Bottlehead approach, if you plug it in and it works, it works


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey Mordy - I think you got it, those were his main points!  Based on that simple equation, if Rp is constant, and you know Gm, then you can calculate Mu.  So if two tubes have the same Gm, then they have the same Mu because Rp is constant.  He is claiming that Rp is not actually constant and there are variances from tube to tube.  What I don't know is if these variances in plate resistance are large enough to cause an audible channel imbalance, like he claims.  Also, buying tubes that are tested for Mu is a luxury probably no one has access to, especially on eBay.  Another thing I don't think he addresses are real-world operating conditions, which tube testers are not known for replicating.
> 
> I mostly posted it as a good overview of what tube testers are measuring and why for Carlman14.
> 
> You can always take the Doc. B from Bottlehead approach, if you plug it in and it works, it works



Most important is to check for shorts and gas.  No tube tester checks tubes at actual conditions and the same tube can be run 
at very different conditions in different amps. A 6SN7 might be running at 90 volts in one amp and 250 in another.


----------



## mordy

I guess it is back to my ears then.....


----------



## Sound Trooper

leftside said:


> The DX220 with AMP8 or AMP9 is a great portable solution and it's quite amazing the sound quality produced by such a small form, but as you've found and something I agree with, there's nothing quite like a "slightly heavier" DAC + amp.



Indeed, going back and forth with the iBasso and my Chord/GL3N combo made me appreciate the increased level of sophistication you get with the larger units. Details jump straight out, placement is far more accurate, Sound stage and depth is immediately more apparent and the overall tonality is more natural. On its own the iBasso is a super capable dap which sounds wonderful with a wide variety of iems and headphones, but the larger units are on a whole different planet when it comes to pure unadulterated musical enjoyment.



whirlwind said:


> Welcome back.  Glad you are enjoying your amp again.
> It is pretty amazing really at how well the HD6XX scale ....those headphones have definitely stood the test of time and sound better and better when the rest of the chain gets an upgrade, they just seem to keep on giving.
> It is no wonder that they have the great reputation that they do....many people stay happy right at this point of audio.
> 
> I have been slowly on the look out for a nice WE422A that is fairly reasonably priced.



Hi Joe, rightly said. I do like the HD6XX very much but to be truthful, I would much prefer the Auteur/LCD3 with the GEL3N. The HD6XX does scale remarkably well but at the end of the day, the clarity and openness of the Auteur and the lushness of the LCD3 does it for me. And when I want to get thrilled by my music, I’ll slap on the Phi CC.

Great decision on the WE422A and I wish you the best of luck in your search. I do remember us talking about the WE422A not too long ago. Remember to also get Glenn to build you the 422A adapter as it really helps. I had no regards getting mine as it is the best sounding rectifier out of what I currently own (Sittard GZ34, Mullard GZ32, Sophia Princess 274B). I do think condition is more important here as I would personally pay a little higher for one which is in a better condition.


----------



## Deyan

While talking about testing I'll show off my latest and greatest bias probe ( still in development ). When complete it will measure simultaneously plate current, plate voltage and power dissipation. I intend to make it with swappable heads so any type of tube can be biased. Anyone interested  ?
Here is a picture of the prototype meter.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 11, 2019)

Man, you got to love vacation. Just sit back and enjoy all of your gear and music. Relax in your comfy chair with some music and cocktails in the evening.
If this is what retirement is like, it has to be great!




 I was going to work on hiding these wires over my two week vacation, but that has not happened....I have been pretty lazy!

Listening to the recently released album from The Allman Betts Band -Down To The River
They have a big reputation to live up to....hope they can find their own sound...they definitely have the bloodline.
We shall see how it all plays out.

GOTL today with the Atticus....wife is also off today so the close backs will not disturb her....killer sound with the GOTL & Atticus.

GEC 6080 & Mullard ECC33


----------



## gibosi

I keep forgetting how good Philips EL11 / EL3N sound and every time I go back to them, they always seem to surprise me. They are becoming one of my very favorite drivers in the GOTL.

Below is a pair of EL11 sporting the Valvo logo, but manufactured in 1961 by Loewe Opta. a Philips subsidiary, in a factory located in West Berlin. Loewe Opta also put a side-contact base on these tubes, that is, EL3N, and they typically carry the Philips label. I have never seen the Loewe Opta brand used after this company became a Philips subsidiary,

These are brighter and airier than the WIRAG production and coupled with the 5998, I felt it necessary to use a darker rectifier, the Cossor 53KU. This combo sounds really good to my ears.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I keep forgetting how good Philips EL11 / EL3N sound and every time I go back to them, they always seem to surprise me. They are becoming one of my very favorite drivers in the GOTL.
> 
> Below is a pair of EL11 sporting the Valvo logo, but manufactured in 1961 by Loewe Opta. a Philips subsidiary, in a factory located in West Berlin. Loewe Opta also put a side-contact base on these tubes, that is, EL3N, and they typically carry the Philips label. I have never seen the Loewe Opta brand used after this company became a Philips subsidiary,
> 
> These are brighter and airier than the WIRAG production and coupled with the 5998, I felt it necessary to use a darker rectifier, the Cossor 53KU. This combo sounds really good to my ears.




I have been using the Fat Cossor 53KU in my GEL3N amp and it has become my favorite rectifier, even over the GEC...then again I like warm for what I listen to mostly.
It is weird as I have a hexfred that Glenn made for me and I like it, it sounds good and I know that maybe "technically" it is better ....but personally I find that I choose the tubes most all the time.

I still am not exactly sure how the rectifier can change the sound of the amp to a large degree, but the Cossor has been a great addition for me and makes me want to hear the WE422A.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> This may sound crazy, but I do not stream any of my music,other than a few YouTube videos.
> 
> I just buy cd,s or flac music so I know the quality that I am getting. I rip the cd,s myself to flac and make my own MP3 files for listening at work, with just a cheap San Disc music player and some cheap in ears.
> 
> ...



Not crazy!  I rip my own CD's as well.   I do have a streaming service that I use to send tunes to a bluetooth speaker...

But for serious headphone listening, I listen to thick rips as well.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> I keep forgetting how good Philips EL11 / EL3N sound and every time I go back to them, they always seem to surprise me. They are becoming one of my very favorite drivers in the GOTL.
> 
> Below is a pair of EL11 sporting the Valvo logo, but manufactured in 1961 by Loewe Opta. a Philips subsidiary, in a factory located in West Berlin. Loewe Opta also put a side-contact base on these tubes, that is, EL3N, and they typically carry the Philips label. I have never seen the Loewe Opta brand used after this company became a Philips subsidiary,
> 
> These are brighter and airier than the WIRAG production and coupled with the 5998, I felt it necessary to use a darker rectifier, the Cossor 53KU. This combo sounds really good to my ears.



Very nice!

I am enjoying my EL32 as drivers...


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Man, you got to love vacation. Just sit back and enjoy all of your gear and music. Relax in your comfy chair with some music and cocktails in the evening.
> If this is what retirement is like, it has to be great!
> 
> I was going to work on hiding these wires over my two week vacation, but that has not happened....I have been pretty lazy!
> ...



Your room is looking great, Joe!!

.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Most important is to check for shorts and gas.  No tube tester checks tubes at actual conditions and the same tube can be run
> at very different conditions in different amps. A 6SN7 might be running at 90 volts in one amp and 250 in another.



Couldn't agree more.

Top priority is for a tube to be safe.

Test scores are a sellers' tool to get a higher price.
It follows the test scores way of thinking our society is based on, which of course doesn't show the complete picture.
Many used tubes sound great and last a long time.


----------



## rosgr63

JazzVinyl said:


> Not crazy!  I rip my own CD's as well.   I do have a streaming service that I use to send tunes to a bluetooth speaker...
> 
> But for serious headphone listening, I listen to thick rips as well.



I digitised all my vinyls years ago and I still rip CD's.

My library has more than 30,000 tracks properly classified with IDs.


----------



## 2359glenn

I used to use used tubes but don't anymore. Tubes like 6SN7 and 6BX7 were usually used in TVs with high hours and are noisy.


----------



## rosgr63

Some tubes even NIB ones can be noisy in one amp and quiet in another depending one the operating point.

The only way to find out is by trying.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 13, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Not crazy!  I rip my own CD's as well.   I do have a streaming service that I use to send tunes to a bluetooth speaker...
> 
> But for serious headphone listening, I listen to thick rips as well.




There ended up being more people doing this than I anticipated....either ripping their own or just buying flac from websites.
I know you still spin a lot of vinyl and probably do not even use too much digital. My hat goes off to you guys as that is such a great sound.  

in my case, I am much too lazy for that and I am even a whole album listener. I probably would still spin vinyl if i still have my two channel in the basement, but unfortunately those days are behind me now as I try not to disturb the significant other in the house.  At this point in my life I only use headphones and digital as it is just too damn handy.

I may add an SACD player at some point as I had Glenn put an extra set of inputs on the GEL3N amp, I do enjoy the DSD stuff if it is made from a proper recording, but to be honest
with these newer dacs a darn good flac recording has risin' to much greater heights.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 13, 2019)

rosgr63 said:


> I digitised all my vinyls years ago and I still rip CD's.
> 
> My library has more than 30,000 tracks properly classified with IDs.




A man of my heart.
 I have all of my cd's ripped.
I would love to do the same with all of my vinyl, but damn that would be a lot of work and I am at the point where all I want to do is listen and enjoy.
I have OALS.....Old And Lazy Syndrome


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> A man of my heart.
> I have all of my cd's ripped.
> I would love to do the same with all of my vinyl, but damn that would be a lot of work and I am at the point where all I want to do is listen and enjoy.
> I have OALS.....Old And Lazy Syndrome



Joe that's what is most important to *Enjoy the Music!
*
I get my pleasure listening to the music not the gear, I've been in this hobby way too long I guess.......


----------



## rosgr63

BTW Tito Puente is on to cheer me up before I go to the airport!


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> BTW Tito Puente is on to cheer me up before I go to the airport!



Are you guys headed out somewhere....or picking someone up ?


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> Are you guys headed out somewhere....or picking someone up ?



The youngest is flying to Mykonos so I'm taking her to the airport.


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> The youngest is flying to Mykonos so I'm taking her to the airport.



Oh wow...good for her....sounds like a big beach party is about to happen.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

For those who have heard the famed Mullard ECC32, where does it fall in the ranks of other 6SN7 types in the GOTL?  Is there another non-Mullard it is somewhat similar to in terms of character?


----------



## gibosi

As the ECC32 draws .9 amps, it can't really be considered a 6SN7GT. Actually, it is more accurate to say that it is a modified 6N7G with separate cathodes. And in fact, Mullard simply took the ECC31, separated the cathodes and the ECC32 was born. The only other modified 6N7G with separate cathodes that I am aware of is the Raytheon 5694.

Many consider the ECC32 to be among the best drivers available. But as always, "best" is a function of personal preferences and system synergy.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> As the ECC32 draws .9 amps, it can't really be considered a 6SN7GT. Actually, it is more accurate to say that it is a modified 6N7G with separate cathodes. And in fact, Mullard simply took the ECC31, separated the cathodes and the ECC32 was born. The only other modified 6N7G with separate cathodes that I am aware of is the Raytheon 5694.
> 
> Many consider the ECC32 to be among the best drivers available. But as always, "best" is a function of personal preferences and system synergy.



Thanks, Ken.  I didn't realize it was basically an ECC31 with a split cathode, that does make me wonder if it is worth the premium over the ECC31 if both are usable in the GOTL.  I was considering liquidating some spare tubes to purchase one.  Hmm...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I received an interesting pair of 6J5 tubes today, Visseaux 6J5MG in metal envelopes.  The internals are identical to the Visseaux 6J5G, discussed in this Head-Fi post: 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...ost-for-summary.813488/page-214#post-12970528

Visseaux used wax sleeves in the packaging, so it was waterproof and the metal is virtually free from corrosion.  Some may think they are ugly, I think they look quite nice!  Excited to give them a listen when my adapter arrives.


----------



## Monsterzero

rosgr63 said:


> I digitised all my vinyls years ago and I still rip CD's.
> 
> My library has more than 30,000 tracks properly classified with IDs.



Im sitting on 32,938 files,with over 10K of them residing in either my classic rock or metal folders.  I used to do vinyl,but sold off the lot prior to moving overseas back in 2005.
Most of my stuff is 16/24 bit lossless,but some of my more obscure stuff is 320mp3 
I'd like to get into the DSD domain. Can you guys recommend software that does DSD,FLAC and MP3? I looked into HQPlayer,but it doesnt support lossy files.



gibosi said:


> Many consider the ECC32 to be among the best drivers available. But as always, "best" is a function of personal preferences and system synergy.



Its one of my favs.


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> Oh wow...good for her....sounds like a big beach party is about to happen.



All day and night long

I’m not invited


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Im sitting on 32,938 files,with over 10K of them residing in either my classic rock or metal folders.  I used to do vinyl,but sold off the lot prior to moving overseas back in 2005.
> Most of my stuff is 16/24 bit lossless,but some of my more obscure stuff is 320mp3
> I'd like to get into the DSD domain. Can you guys recommend software that does DSD,FLAC and MP3? I looked into HQPlayer,but it doesnt support lossy files.
> Its one of my favs.


Roon or JRiver.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Roon or JRiver.



Which has an easier learning curve? I tried Foobar2000 and just couldnt get the hang of it.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> For those who have heard the famed Mullard ECC32, where does it fall in the ranks of other 6SN7 types in the GOTL?  Is there another non-Mullard it is somewhat similar to in terms of character?



If you want a great sounding driver and have a dual 6J5 adapter get some GEC L63 tubes.
This is the drivers I use. I don't even have a 6SN7 socket just two 6J5 sockets that I use the L63s in.
When I want a wormier sound I use the EL3N have EL3N to 6J5 adapters.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> If you want a great sounding driver and have a dual 6J5 adapter get some GEC L63 tubes.
> This is the drivers I use. I don't even have a 6SN7 socket just two 6J5 sockets that I use the L63s in.
> When I want a wormier sound I use the EL3N have EL3N to 6J5 adapters.



I have a pair on the way, Glenn! In part because of your recommendation, thanks


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> For those who have heard the famed Mullard ECC32, where does it fall in the ranks of other 6SN7 types in the GOTL?  Is there another non-Mullard it is somewhat similar to in terms of character?



I’ve heard the Mullard ECC35s and they are my favorite tube compared to the others. Great for neutral to bright headphones. Top end rolled off but not to the extent as the RCAs. One of biggest sound stage of all the tubes I own. Great holography, tone/timbre, sweet mids/vocals, instrument separation and great bass. There’s nothing really much that that this tube does wrong.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 13, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve heard the Mullard ECC35s and they are my favorite tube compared to the others. Great for neutral to bright headphones. Top end rolled off but not to the extent as the RCAs. One of biggest sound stage of all the tubes I own. Great holography, tone/timbre, sweet mids/vocals, instrument separation and great bass. There’s nothing really much that that this tube does wrong.




I feel the same way about all of the Mullard drivers...all are great throughout the spectrum.
Different amplification factors, but they all sound sublime.

ECC31, ECC32,ECC33,ECC35  take your pick.along with a few others I would say they are about as good as you can get....pricey though.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve heard the Mullard ECC35s and they are my favorite tube compared to the others. Great for neutral to bright headphones. Top end rolled off but not to the extent as the RCAs. One of biggest sound stage of all the tubes I own. Great holography, tone/timbre, sweet mids/vocals, instrument separation and great bass. There’s nothing really much that that this tube does wrong.



Hmm, given the cocobolo Auteur is my most used headphone, that might be a great fit.  Midrange centric with a slightly rolled off top is very close to my preference.



whirlwind said:


> I feel the same way about all of the Mullard drivers...all are great throughout the spectrum.
> Different amplification factors, but they all sound sublime.
> 
> ECC31, ECC32,ECC33,ECC35  take your pick.along with a few others I would say they are about as good as you can get....pricey though.



Would you say the ECC31 and ECC32 are distinctly different, or pretty similar?  I'm unsure how much splitting the cathode in two would affect the sound.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 13, 2019)

With the adapter that the ECC31 uses I have heard that it runs to a more optimum bias than ECC32...I can not confirm that though.

I do believe that the sound is not distinctly different, but I have not really not spent a whole lot of time A/B between the two.

I have really not A/B between any of the Mullard tubes much. I love them all....at times I think I like the ECC33 the best, other times I think I like the ECC31 or ECC32 the best.
Probably depends on phones, music ect.

Many say that the ECC35 is the best of the 6SL7 tube....but I have no other 6SL7 to compare.

At the price point of the ECC31, I would probably get this tube compared to others in this range...I am really a fan of TSBGRP though.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> With the adapter that the ECC31 uses I have heard that it runs to a more optimum bias than ECC32...I can not confirm that though.
> 
> I do believe that the sound is not distinctly different, but I have not really not spent a whole lot of time A/B between the two.
> 
> ...



Gotcha, the ECC31 is the real bargain from the bunch.  I would imagine the ECC31/32 are very similar, and those ECC32s go for BIG bucks.  The TSBGRP is a favorite of mine too.  I'll have to give it some thought, thanks Joe.

I'm off to see the Cleveland Orchestra at Blossom Music Center tonight, outdoor venue.  Prokofiev, Tchaikovsky, and Mussorgsky for any classical fans.  Live classical is powerful, great way to spend a summer night!


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Gotcha, the ECC31 is the real bargain from the bunch.  I would imagine the ECC31/32 are very similar, and those ECC32s go for BIG bucks.  The TSBGRP is a favorite of mine too.  I'll have to give it some thought, thanks Joe.
> 
> I'm off to see the Cleveland Orchestra at Blossom Music Center tonight, outdoor venue.  Prokofiev, Tchaikovsky, and Mussorgsky for any classical fans.  Live classical is powerful, great way to spend a summer night!



It sure is, have fun.

I have seen Joe Bonamassa and Tom Petty and Steve Winwood there, it is a great place.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Which has an easier learning curve? I tried Foobar2000 and just couldnt get the hang of it.


Roon for sure, but it’s pricier. If you go for the 30 day trial and have any questions feel free to PM me. You deserve to hear DSD with that new DAC...


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Roon for sure, but it’s pricier. If you go for the 30 day trial and have any questions feel free to PM me. You deserve to hear DSD with that new DAC...



Been researching software for the better part of the last two hours. I keep reading that the SQ of Audirvana tops Roon,is cheaper than Roon,and supports everything from Mp3 to DSD and MQA. Any experience with it?

Anyone?


----------



## leftside

Audirvana is also highly regarded by many, but I’ve never tried it. I doubt any of them have better sound quality than another. It’s just a bitstream that is output, and then it’s up to your DAC on how it processes the bitstream. It’s more about the user experience imo that distinguishes the players.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks, Ken.  I didn't realize it was basically an ECC31 with a split cathode, that does make me wonder if it is worth the premium over the ECC31 if both are usable in the GOTL.  I was considering liquidating some spare tubes to purchase one.  Hmm...



The ECC32 is closest to a 6SN7 except for the .95 amp filament and a gain of 32.
These can be put into most amps that use a 6SN7. That is why the high premium.
Never tried one to costly for me. And I don't ask Stavros for tubes he is a good friend.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I received an interesting pair of 6J5 tubes today, Visseaux 6J5MG in metal envelopes.  The internals are identical to the Visseaux 6J5G, discussed in this Head-Fi post:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-–-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/page-214#post-12970528
> 
> Visseaux used wax sleeves in the packaging, so it was waterproof and the metal is virtually free from corrosion.  Some may think they are ugly, I think they look quite nice!  Excited to give them a listen when my adapter arrives.



Were did you get these beauties?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Were did you get these beauties?



I reached out to a seller on French eBay.  We wrestled with trying to make the purchase over eBay, so they just directed me to their website and they made a listing.  They only speak French and the website is in French!  But very helpful and shipped via EMS.

If you feel like going to the trouble, here is the listing: https://ampliatubes.fr/tubes-audiophiles/1654-tubes-6j5mg-x-2.html

Google Chrome will automatically translate the French text on the website and I used Google Translate for sending and receiving emails from the owner.

Call me crazy, but it all worked out.


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> Were did you get these beauties?



No kidding. They have this 1950s - Car of the Future look to them. Gorgeous tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> No kidding. They have this 1950s - Car of the Future look to them. Gorgeous tubes.



I love the boxes too.  My sister is a graphic designer, I send her pictures of vintage tube boxes pretty often, she shares my fascination (with the packaging at least)


----------



## UsoppNoKami

leftside said:


> Audirvana is also highly regarded by many, but I’ve never tried it. I doubt any of them have better sound quality than another. It’s just a bitstream that is output, and then it’s up to your DAC on how it processes the bitstream. *It’s more about the user experience imo that distinguishes the players.*



Agree with this sentiment. Having said that, Roon SQ can be tweaked quite a bit if you care to go into the DSP options. I use crossfeed for headphone listening, switch it off when I use my speakers, there are sampling rate conversion options incl upsampling, slow roll off/fast roll off and minimum phase/linear filters, parametric EQ, etc. Roon also has built in Reveal plugin for Audeze cans. Plus, integration with HQ Player, which runs seamlessly in the background with Roon as the UI.

Also, the multi zone streaming options are great. Even older gear which sound good but have no streaming options eg an old B&W/Bose/B&O sound dock can be transformed to a Roon end point by installing Roon on an old iPod / iPhone then remote controlling it from your tablet, phone or computer elsewhere in the house.


----------



## Monsterzero

UsoppNoKami said:


> Agree with this sentiment. Having said that, Roon SQ can be tweaked quite a bit if you care to go into the DSP options. I use crossfeed for headphone listening, switch it off when I use my speakers, there are sampling rate conversion options incl upsampling, slow roll off/fast roll off and minimum phase/linear filters, parametric EQ, etc. Roon also has built in Reveal plugin for Audeze cans. Plus, integration with HQ Player, which runs seamlessly in the background with Roon as the UI.
> 
> Also, the multi zone streaming options are great. Even older gear which sound good but have no streaming options eg an old B&W/Bose/B&O sound dock can be transformed to a Roon end point by installing Roon on an old iPod / iPhone then remote controlling it from your tablet, phone or computer elsewhere in the house.



Thanks. Im looking for pretty simple applications. I will be using the player to play files. Thats about it. I dont stream music,nor to other rooms.

Im pretty happy with my current player,but with a new DAC in-bound that apparently sounds spectacular with DSD, I want to dip my toes into that,and my current player doesnt support DSD.

What attracts me to Audirvana is it has a built-in but optional system optimizer that shuts off all computer processes not needed for music playback,then restores the system to normal when toggled off. Apparently it sounds pretty spectacular. Im just a bit worried that my computer will get jacked,but I cant see any documentation to validate those fears.

They have a free trial,so I will probably opt for that once the new DAC arrives.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Been researching software for the better part of the last two hours. I keep reading that the SQ of Audirvana tops Roon,is cheaper than Roon,and supports everything from Mp3 to DSD and MQA. Any experience with it?
> 
> Anyone?


You want software upscale or just decode? I always prefer hardware to software.

Have you tried this DAC?
https://www.dcsltd.co.uk/products/vivaldi-dac/


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> You want software upscale or just decode? I always prefer hardware to software.
> 
> Have you tried this DAC?
> https://www.dcsltd.co.uk/products/vivaldi-dac/



I ordered a Lampizator Atlantic TRP after having it on loan for ten days. I want to be able to take advantage of its capabilities. I downloaded the Audirvana trial last night,but havent really messed around with it yet. My DAC wont be here for another month though.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I ordered a Lampizator Atlantic TRP after having it on loan for ten days. I want to be able to take advantage of its capabilities. I downloaded the Audirvana trial last night,but havent really messed around with it yet. My DAC wont be here for another month though.



You ordered the Lampizator great.
Do you need a place to live now?


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> You ordered the Lampizator great.
> Do you need a place to live now?



LOL!
My wife loves me and was instrumental in helping me have the chance to get this crazy good(and pricey) piece of gear.
She knows im pretty critical of gear,and rarely does she hear me gush about audio gear,so when I went on and on about the Lampizator she realized it must be pretty special.
So for now,im safe,but if that changes I'll give you a call. You have a spare bedroom?


----------



## rosgr63

Monsterzero said:


> I ordered a Lampizator Atlantic TRP after having it on loan for ten days. I want to be able to take advantage of its capabilities. I downloaded the Audirvana trial last night,but havent really messed around with it yet. My DAC wont be here for another month though.



Congratulations great DAC

I’m using Audirvana Plus and I’m happy with it


----------



## mordy

In the olden days before the mid 20's recordings were made acoustically with the musicians playing into a large horn with a stylus making a direct-to-disc recording. The recording engineer had to place the musicians in the room according to how loud they played, and those that played louder had to be placed furthest back in the room.





Here is a recreation of such a recording with more modern equipment using a single microphone and a two channel tape recorder. There is also present a foot operated tuba where the player plays guitar at the same time - something that did not exist back then.
Note how the soprano saxophone player steps back and to the side at 1:40 to take a solo and the foot signal when it is time to end.
This jazz style is from 1926.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> In the olden days before the mid 20's recordings were made acoustically with the musicians playing into a large horn with a stylus making a direct-to-disc recording. The recording engineer had to place the musicians in the room according to how loud they played, and those that played louder had to be placed furthest back in the room.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Neat audio recording with no electronics at all. And it played pack the same way.
Electronics came in in the near future.
In 1920 KDKA started broadcasting.  To play music the hole band came to the radio station and played around
a single microphone.


----------



## attmci

attmci said:


> You want software upscale or just decode? I always prefer hardware to software.
> 
> Have you tried this DAC?
> https://www.dcsltd.co.uk/products/vivaldi-dac/


Congrats on the decision! DAC is critical.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> So for now,im safe,but if that changes I'll give you a call. You have a spare bedroom?


All you gotta do is some soldering chores for Glenn...  Just in case, prepare a "Will solder for clean bed" sign


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> Congrats on the decision! DAC is critical.



Yep! Massive difference,however as I mentioned in my video I did,the differences werent as noticeable thru my nearfield system as it was thru my Glenn.
With the nearfield I could hear a difference,but it wasnt night and day. Thru the Glenn +Verite,I found myself listening to songs I generally loathe,just cuz it sounded so phenomenal.


----------



## gibosi

@2359glenn

How about a 304TL based amp? 

http://amberwaveaudio.com/the304TL.htm

https://www.alumrocktech.com/amplifier.shtml

http://silvercore.de/de/amps/silvercore-audimax/

The 304TL is a 300 watt general purpose triode made by
paralleling four 75TL tubes in one envelope. The TLs or VT-129 tubes
were used extensively in WWII as pulse modulators in the SCR-268 radar
sets and as amplifiers in other equipment.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> @2359glenn
> 
> How about a 304TL based amp?
> 
> ...


My guess is that if you have to ask how much these amps cost, you can't afford them...
The third listing - a German amp, costs around $41,000........


----------



## mordy

Which brings me to another question: A few decades ago I bought a high end integrated amp 100W for around $1,000.00. I just saw a Yamaha receiver now with similar specs for $129.00.
Does anybody have a recommendation for a good sounding contemporary very inexpensive integrated amp or receiver, 100W stable down to 2 ohm, that has separate preamp in? I want to use it as a power amp with the GOTL and I am worried about how long my 35 year plus amp is going to hold up in the long run - a rebuild is way too expensive.
It appears to me that microprocessor controlled amps have brought the price down substantially compared to old Hi Fi stuff.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> I want to use it as a power amp with the GOTL and I am worried about how long my 35 year plus amp is going to hold up in the long run - a rebuild is way too expensive.



If I may ask,what amp do you currently own? 
Where I live,where everything is silly expensive,getting my vintage gear worked on is usually less than $150.00


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> If I may ask,what amp do you currently own?
> Where I live,where everything is silly expensive,getting my vintage gear worked on is usually less than $150.00


Hi Monsterzero,
I have a Tandberg 3006A 150W power amp:




Also have a matching preamplifier 3008A, but only one channel works - could be a bad solder joint somewhere. It seems to me that it would be cheaper to buy a used one (if you can find one) than to have it repaired. 
I also have a 1980's Sony 110W integrated AV amp that I like, but it cuts out all the time on one channel.
This old gear is great, but unfortunately I don't know if it worth the money to have these pieces repaired.
If you have information on a good reasonably priced repair place, please PM me.


----------



## rosgr63

D here's a new software player you might want to try:

https://fongaudio.com/out-of-your-head-software/


----------



## L0rdGwyn

More adapters from Deyan!  Dual 6J5 to 6SN7 and the ubiquitous EL3N to C3g.

In the GOTL, the 6J5 adapter will be nearly flush with the chassis, my amp needs a 6SN7 to 12AU7 adapter on the bottom.  Really like the minimalist look of the enclosure Deyan uses for this adapter.


----------



## gibosi

For the benefit of the those very few here who are interested in rolling 4-volt rectifiers....



After rolling through the Cossor 53KU, Mazda UU8 and Mullard FW4/500 in search of the best sound from the Loewe Opta EL11 and 5998, I have settled on the Mullard FW4/500. Typically, the EL11 and EL3N have a strong bass emphasis, and the Cossor and Mazda also have a strong bass emphasis, and the end result was a bit too heavy with those rectifiers. With the Mullard, the bass is tighter, with better detail, and to my ears this is the best of the three.



This FW4/500 was likely manufactured in the early 1940's and can provide 250ma at 500 volts, so it was a fairly strong rectifier for its time. While less common, Mullard also swapped out the 4-volt heater for a 5-volt one, installed an octal base and labeled it as a 5U4G. I find the FW4/500 to be very similar to the later "skinny bottle" GZ37 manufactured by Mullard, but to my ears, this older tube is a bit better.


----------



## Deyan

L0rdGwyn said:


> More adapters from Deyan!  Dual 6J5 to 6SN7 and the ubiquitous EL3N to C3g.
> 
> In the GOTL, the 6J5 adapter will be nearly flush with the chassis, my amp needs a 6SN7 to 12AU7 adapter on the bottom.  Really like the minimalist look of the enclosure Deyan uses for this adapter.



Another happy customer.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jul 16, 2019)

This might be a long shot,and off topic,but I need to ask.

Anyone in this thread familiar with Sonore or SoTM network products?
Ive been doing pretty intensive research and have read glowing reports of both. The obvious differences in SQ! seems to be a lush,organic sound from SoTM vs. more analytical sound from Sonore.
I prefer warm,musical but with the GOTL+tube DAC+ZMF headphones,im wondering if the more transparent sounding Sonore is the way to go.

Anyone?


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> For the benefit of the those very few here who are interested in rolling 4-volt rectifiers....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These early FW4/500 with black plates and inverted cup getters are meant to be among the best. Mullard also did a later version with grey plates. I have both, so will be able to do a comparison when my amp is built. I don't tend to hear too many differences with good rectifiers in my current system, but will do my best to listen for any differences with the new amp


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> This might be a long shot,and off topic,but I need to ask.
> 
> Anyone in this thread familiar with Sonore or SoTM network products?
> Ive been doing pretty intensive research and have read glowing reports of both. The obvious differences in SQ! seems to be a lush,organic sound from SoTM vs. more analytical sound from Sonore.
> ...


Get over to Computer Audiophile and drown yourself in snake oil  Those guys make setting up a turntable and cart look a breeze compared to all their tweaks and gadgets. 

Where these devices show their value is to take the load off your laptop/PC/Mac/etc. Sometimes, if I'm listening to music through the laptop, and I do something else resource demanding, I can cause a slight stutter with the music. For this reason, I'm also considering a Sonore or SoTM, but will probably go with a Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra: https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/stream-box-s2-ultra/


----------



## Monsterzero (Jul 16, 2019)

leftside said:


> Get over to Computer Audiophile and drown yourself in snake oil  Those guys make setting up a turntable and cart look a breeze compared to all their tweaks and gadgets.
> 
> Where these devices show their value is to take the load off your laptop/PC/Mac/etc. Sometimes, if I'm listening to music through the laptop, and I do something else resource demanding, I can cause a slight stutter with the music. For this reason, I'm also considering a Sonore or SoTM, but will probably go with a Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra: https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/stream-box-s2-ultra/



Yeah was up all night reading over there,as well as other sites. Folks with some serious high end gear use these products and swear by them,then there's this guy,who I like to watch.





That Stream Box looks interesting. My only concern with it,as well as other products Ive tried/researched would be the stability of the interface.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> These early FW4/500 with black plates and inverted cup getters are meant to be among the best. Mullard also did a later version with grey plates. I have both, so will be able to do a comparison when my amp is built. I don't tend to hear too many differences with good rectifiers in my current system, but will do my best to listen for any differences with the new amp



And if someone would like to try a Mullard FW4/500, then in my opinion, the Mullard NU12 should also be on the table.

The NU12 is the predecessor of the FW4/500. The major difference electrically is that the NU12 heater requires 3.75 amps, whereas the FW4/500 requires only 3.0 amps. Also note that the NU12 (sometimes labeled AU1) tends to have a taller bottle and more internal bracing.




There is also an interesting NU12 variant with striated plates and a curious double mica on top, shown below, on the right. However, this tube is rather rare and often commands a high price. That said, I do not recall that these three tubes sounded significantly different to my old ears.


----------



## rnros

L0rdGwyn said:


> More adapters from Deyan!  Dual 6J5 to 6SN7 and the ubiquitous EL3N to C3g.
> 
> In the GOTL, the 6J5 adapter will be nearly flush with the chassis, my amp needs a 6SN7 to 12AU7 adapter on the bottom.  Really like the minimalist look of the enclosure Deyan uses for this adapter.



Very nice, LG. Do you also have Deyan's adapter for the EL11 versions?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

rnros said:


> Very nice, LG. Do you also have Deyan's adapter for the EL11 versions?



Thanks, rnros.  I don't have the EL11 adapter, I might look into it down the road.  I know from reading the thread the EL11 is a great tube.  Figured I would start with the EL3N and go from there.


----------



## mordy

The EL11 (among many other tubes from Germany) uses a base called German Steel Y8A:




The end of the pins on this octal base have an indentation, and the tubes slide into the sockets with a reassuring click - wish that this would have been the universal standard...


----------



## gibosi (Jul 16, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks, rnros.  I don't have the EL11 adapter, I might look into it down the road.  I know from reading the thread the EL11 is a great tube.  Figured I would start with the EL3N and go from there.



Actually, the EL11 and EL3N are identical. The only difference is the base. The EL11 has the German octal base as noted above. And the EL3N has the side-contact base. In practice, the German octal base was fairly standard in Germany and to the east. Whereas, the side-contact base was fairly standard in Holland, France and Britain. And as a result, if it carries the Telefunken label it will most likely be an EL11. And if it carries the Philips label, it will most likely be an EL3N.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> Actually, the EL11 and EL3N are identical. The only difference is the base. The EL11 has the German octal base as noted by above. And the EL3N has the side-contact base. In practice, the German octal base was fairly standard in Germany and to the east. Whereas, the side-contact base was fairly standard in Holland, France and Britain. And as a result, if it carries the Telefunken label it will mostly like be an EL11. And if it carries the Philips label, it will most likely be an EL3N.



Thanks, Ken, I had not looked into it, very good to know.  I suppose if I am enamored with the Philips EL3N, then it might be worth getting the adapter to give the German lineup a listen  although I am going to be buried in tubes to roll as is!!!  A good problem to have, methinks


----------



## leftside (Jul 17, 2019)

gibosi said:


> And if someone would like to try a Mullard FW4/500, then in my opinion, the Mullard NU12 should also be on the table.
> 
> The NU12 is the predecessor of the FW4/500. The major difference electrically is that the NU12 heater requires 3.75 amps, whereas the FW4/500 requires only 3.0 amps. Also note that the NU12 (sometimes labeled AU1) tends to have a taller bottle and more internal bracing.
> 
> ...


My FW4/500 are labelled NU12 FW4/500. I primarily purchased them as they had black base, black plates and inverted tray getters as I know this tends to signify an early tube.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> My FW4/500 are labelled U12 FW4/500. I primarily purchased them as they had black base, black plates and inverted tray getters as I know this tends to signify an early tube.



Since these do not have the extra bracing on the bottom mica, I am inclined to think that these are FW4/500, and not NU12. Again, a true NU12 will have extra bracing on the bottom mica. And while we can't see it, an NU12 heater requires 3.75 amps whereas the FW4/500 require only 3.00 amps. That said, to my old ears, the NU12 and FW4/500  didn't sound significantly different...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Ahead of the GOTL arrival, I bought a critical piece of tube gear...a label maker.  I think I have passed the threshold from enthusiast to addict, but man it feels good.


----------



## rosgr63

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ahead of the GOTL arrival, I bought a critical piece of tube gear...a label maker.  I think I have passed the threshold from enthusiast to addict, but man it feels good.




Very nice, I like it!

Tube addiction is hard to cure..........


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Very nice, I like it!
> 
> Tube addiction is hard to cure..........



You should know  !!!!


----------



## Zachik

rosgr63 said:


> Tube addiction is hard to cure..........





whirlwind said:


> You should know !!!!



Unlike you guys, I can stop anytime I want...


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Unlike you guys, I can stop anytime I want...



Yea right I am 62 ant haven't stopped yet.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 17, 2019)

rosgr63 said:


> Very nice, I like it!
> 
> Tube addiction is hard to cure..........



I hear there is a guy on this forum who owns six OTL head-amps.  Surely he is the preeminent mind on tube addiction.  If only we could find him, I'm sure he could help us....

Just say no to tubes, kids


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Unlike you guys, I can stop anytime I want...


Reminds me of a classmate of mine many years ago. He said that he has no problem stopping smoking - did it many times already!


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Yea right I am 62 ant haven't stopped yet.


I have just started in my 40s, so I guess I am a late bloomer... 
BTW, for the record: I don't wanna stop!


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Yea right I am 62 ant haven't stopped yet.



I spoke to a cool dude in Tennessee today who said he owned over 8000 tubes!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> I spoke to a cool dude in Tennessee today who said he owned over 8000 tubes!



WOW, goals to aspire toward... although I think I would also be single and homeless.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jul 17, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> WOW, goals to aspire toward... although I think I would also be single and homeless.



Ha! He is an older(than I)Belgian/Swiss guy who is married. Totally impressed with this guy! I called him not knowing who he was,inquiring about a $2,000 piece of gear. Dude spent two hours on the phone with me answering all my questions. We talked about all sorts of topics,from headphones to Thailand.
After I hung up the phone I researched him. Dude sells speakers that retail for $205,000 a pair!
No arrogance. No dismissive audiophile attitude. Great guy.

https://www.atelier13-usa.com/audio-consulting-loudspeakers

BTW he is buying adapters from China,so I sent him @Deyan contact info.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Ha! He is an older(than I)Belgian/Swiss guy who is married. Totally impressed with this guy! I called him not knowing who he was,inquiring about a $2,000 piece of gear. Dude spent two hours on the phone with me answering all my questions. We talked about all sorts of topics,from headphones to Thailand.
> After I hung up the phone I researched him. Dude sells speakers that retail for $205,000 a pair!
> No arrogance. No dismissive audiophile attitude. Great guy.
> 
> ...



Very cool, money does not buy class as they say, glad to hear he has both.  Maybe if I win the lottery, I'll buy a pair.  The 2-ways are only $48K.


----------



## Deyan

Monsterzero said:


> Ha! He is an older(than I)Belgian/Swiss guy who is married. Totally impressed with this guy! I called him not knowing who he was,inquiring about a $2,000 piece of gear. Dude spent two hours on the phone with me answering all my questions. We talked about all sorts of topics,from headphones to Thailand.
> After I hung up the phone I researched him. Dude sells speakers that retail for $205,000 a pair!
> No arrogance. No dismissive audiophile attitude. Great guy.
> 
> ...



Thank you sir I appreciate it. To be honest the extra work I get from everyone on the forum is what keeps me afloat.


----------



## rosgr63

L0rdGwyn said:


> I hear there is a guy on this forum who owns six OTL head-amps.  Surely he is the preeminent mind on tube addiction.  If only we could find him, I'm sure he could help us....
> 
> Just say no to tubes, kids




It's getting worse with old age...........
What about SS headphone amps?  ..........7 maybe.......?


----------



## 2359glenn

rosgr63 said:


> It's getting worse with old age...........
> What about SS headphone amps?  ..........7 maybe.......?



SS  How about a couple o tin cans hooked to speakers with string.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> SS  How about a couple o tin cans hooked to speakers with string.



Now you are talking.

I'm not going to mention crazy set ups, thread readers will be shocked..............


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Now you are talking.
> 
> I'm not going to mention crazy set ups, thread readers will be shocked..............




Oh no......please do


----------



## rosgr63

Brian McFadden on.


----------



## smeksime

Amp just arrived! What tubes would you recommend? Currently using 6080 brimar, 3dg4 zenith, and 13d1 brimar.


----------



## Phantaminum

smeksime said:


> Amp just arrived! What tubes would you recommend? Currently using 6080 brimar, 3dg4 zenith, and 13d1 brimar.



Welcome to the club smeksime! You’re going to find that it’s an extremely versatile and beautiful sounding amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

smeksime said:


> Amp just arrived! What tubes would you recommend? Currently using 6080 brimar, 3dg4 zenith, and 13d1 brimar.



Should sound pretty good with those tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

smeksime said:


> Amp just arrived! What tubes would you recommend? Currently using 6080 brimar, 3dg4 zenith, and 13d1 brimar.



Nice smeksime!  Is that a new build or secondhand?


----------



## 2359glenn

Deyan

I just received the EL3N to 6J5 adapters.
They look great haven't had a chance to try them yet.
Thanks


----------



## mordy

Hi smeksime,
Welcome to the forum! I see that you upgraded from an Euforia just like me. Don't know which tubes you have from this amp, but most of them should work fine in the GOTL. However, be prepared that the tubes you are used to listening to may sound different in the GOTL.
One great advantage of the GOTL is that only uses one driver tube instead of two in the Euforia. Looking for singles many times is easier and proportionately less expensive than looking for pairs.  
Also curious how you find the GOTL in comparison to the Violectric.


----------



## smeksime (Jul 18, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Nice smeksime!  Is that a new build or secondhand?



Second hand. It's the standard 4 tube with upgraded transformer and voltage switch. Brings tears to my eyes


----------



## smeksime

mordy said:


> Hi smeksime,
> Welcome to the forum! I see that you upgraded from an Euforia just like me. Don't know which tubes you have from this amp, but most of them should work fine in the GOTL. However, be prepared that the tubes you are used to listening to may sound different in the GOTL.
> One great advantage of the GOTL is that only uses one driver tube instead of two in the Euforia. Looking for singles many times is easier and proportionately less expensive than looking for pairs.
> Also curious how you find the GOTL in comparison to the Violectric.



I'm actually keeping my Euforia and planning on selling my Violectric. I think I'm done with solid state. It's been quite the journey but I believe I am at my endgame. Now to throw my money at more tubes.


----------



## Monsterzero

smeksime said:


> Amp just arrived! What tubes would you recommend? Currently using 6080 brimar, 3dg4 zenith, and 13d1 brimar.



Lovely. Congrats. We cant really suggest tubes to you until we know which headphones youre rocking.


----------



## 2359glenn

@smeksime 
You should try a Tung-Sol black glass round plate 12SN7 and maybe a NU 6F8G round plate with a adapter.
These are mighty fine sounding tubes in this amp.


----------



## smeksime

Monsterzero said:


> Lovely. Congrats. We cant really suggest tubes to you until we know which headphones youre rocking.



I’m running all of Zach’s headphones. Definitely like the warmer side of things.


----------



## whirlwind

smeksime said:


> I’m running all of Zach’s headphones. Definitely like the warmer side of things.




Hot damn boy...you've got the mother load 

Just listen to the tubes you have in there for awhile and see what you think. It is much easier to tell the difference in the sound if you give the tubes a bit of time in the amp.

Congrats on the amp and on all of those ZMF cans!


----------



## Phantaminum

The perfect set of headphones for this amp.


----------



## Monsterzero

smeksime said:


> I’m running all of Zach’s headphones. Definitely like the warmer side of things.



Nice collection!

I agree with Glenn on the recommendation of the Tung Sol SN7 BG RP,especially for the Verite. It has crazy good depth. Very holographic. I also like the GEC 6AS7Gs in that combo too,but theyre hard to find and not cheap. Oddly I really like the RCA 6080s for Verite as well,even though it can be warmth overload. The staging goes even deeper.

Its a deep rabbit hole. Enjoy the ride.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Should sound pretty good with those tubes.


I second that!!


----------



## gibosi

smeksime said:


> Amp just arrived! What tubes would you recommend? Currently using 6080 brimar, 3dg4 zenith, and 13d1 brimar.



Just an FYI. Note the text on the Brimar 6080, "Foreign". And to my eyes, they look like Sylvania 6080. But one of the wonderful things about the GOTL as you are discovering, is almost everything sounds great! Enjoy.


----------



## Velozity

Just want to throw up some more kudos to Deyan!  I'm loving this 6SN7-to-ECC83 adapter and octal socket saver.  Now I can test out all of these 6SN7 preamp tubes I've been collecting while waiting for my GOTL to be finished.  I should have a good idea of what I like best by the time the amp gets here.  Thanks again Deyan!


----------



## Deyan

Velozity said:


> Just want to throw up some more kudos to Deyan!  I'm loving this 6SN7-to-ECC83 adapter and octal socket saver.  Now I can test out all of these 6SN7 preamp tubes I've been collecting while waiting for my GOTL to be finished.  I should have a good idea of what I like best by the time the amp gets here.  Thanks again Deyan!



Happy to be of service.


----------



## whirlwind

Velozity said:


> Just want to throw up some more kudos to Deyan!  I'm loving this 6SN7-to-ECC83 adapter and octal socket saver.  Now I can test out all of these 6SN7 preamp tubes I've been collecting while waiting for my GOTL to be finished.  I should have a good idea of what I like best by the time the amp gets here.  Thanks again Deyan!




Those Mullard ECC33 tubes sound wonderful!!


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 19, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> @smeksime
> You should try a Tung-Sol black glass round plate 12SN7 and maybe a NU 6F8G round plate with a adapter.
> These are mighty fine sounding tubes in this amp.




I need to grab a NU 6F8G round plate....checking through my tubes...some how this one slipped through the cracks

Am I correct thinking that they are some rebranded Philco tubes that are actually NU 6F8G tubes.
Thought maybe there was some talk about this awhile ago, but it may have been something else.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> I need to grab a NU 6F8G round plate....checking through my tubes...some how this one slipped through the cracks
> 
> Am I correct thinking that they are some rebranded Philco tubes that are actually NU 6F8G tubes.
> Thought maybe there was some talk about this awhile ago, but it may have been something else.



I think it is one of the only 6F8Gs that is distinctly different than its 6SN7 counterpart, whereas all of the others sound more or less the same.  Great tube!


----------



## mordy (Jul 19, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> I need to grab a NU 6F8G round plate....checking through my tubes...some how this one slipped through the cracks
> 
> Am I correct thinking that they are some rebranded Philco tubes that are actually NU 6F8G tubes.
> Thought maybe there was some talk about this awhile ago, but it may have been something else.


Hi whirlwind,
You are correct - there are Philco branded 6F8G tubes that are made by NU.
Another very good substitute is the 6C8G which sells for much less and sounds almost the same as the 6F8G.
This tube is from the 3rd quarter 1943:



The tube is mounted in an adapter for a 6SN7 socket. The black band around the tube is some silicone self fusing tape that is pulled tight around the tube to counteract microphonics (an inexpensive alternative to tube rings). The little pocket knife propping up the tube is used to gently scrape the tube pins if they show signs of corrosion.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I need to grab a NU 6F8G round plate....checking through my tubes...some how this one slipped through the cracks
> 
> Am I correct thinking that they are some rebranded Philco tubes that are actually NU 6F8G tubes.
> Thought maybe there was some talk about this awhile ago, but it may have been something else.



Philco had a special relationship with NU, and yes, it seems that most Philco 6F8G, but not all, are actually NU.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1624#post-14697408


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Philco had a special relationship with NU, and yes, it seems that most Philco 6F8G, but not all, are actually NU.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1624#post-14697408



GE also used NU for some o there 6F8G tubes and GE round plate made by NU can be found.


----------



## cddc

Found lots of tube addicts here....LOL


----------



## cddc (Jul 20, 2019)

I find bidding tubes on eBay very tricky. But sometimes you do get great deals when bidding gods are in sleep.

I find lots of auctions with a starting price of only $1. Just curious to know what will happen if a pack of tubes valued $100+ ends with only one single $1 bid? Does the seller have to ship the $100+ tubes to the bidder for $1?

Now, here is the trick I can think of. To prevent the above scenario from happening, the seller can create another eBay account to bid at the lowest price he/she would accept. But then what will happen if no one else is willing to offer a price higher than the price set by the seller's alt account? Does the seller have to ship the tubes to himself/herself?

And this leads to another question, who is responsible for shipping, does the seller have to go to a local post office to send the items to the winning bidder (in the alt account case I think he/she doesn't even bother sending them), or eBay will collect items from sellers and then ship them to winning bidders?


----------



## Zachik

cddc said:


> Just curious to know what will happen if a pack of tubes valued $100+ ends with only one single $1 bid? Does the seller have to ship his/her $100+ tubes for $1 to the bidder?


Yes, but I do not recall ever seeing that happen...


----------



## Deyan

One time I scored 7 Mullard D getter 12AU7 tubes for 34$. Not for a dollar but still pretty cheap.


----------



## cddc (Jul 20, 2019)

Thanks for replying.

Ja...$1 is not likely to happen...but what if the highest bidding is still less than half of the true value...will some sellers play the trick I mentioned above?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 20, 2019)

cddc said:


> I find bidding tubes on eBay very tricky. But sometimes you do get great deals when bidding gods are in sleep.
> 
> I find lots of auctions with a starting price of only $1. Just curious to know what will happen if a pack of tubes valued $100+ ends with only one single $1 bid? Does the seller have to ship the $100+ tubes to the bidder for $1?
> 
> ...



Hey cddc,

If a seller has a starting bid at $1 and it sells for $1, they are required by eBay to sell at that price.  Many sellers either start their minimum bid higher or they can choose to add a "reserve price" where the item will not sell if the bidding does not reach a specific minimum.  If the item has not reached the reserve price, the auction will say "reserve not met".  If the auction ends without meeting the reserve price, it goes unsold and the seller will have to relist it.

As far as bidding with alternate accounts go, a.k.a. "shill bidding", this is a huge breach of eBay policy and sellers can be banned for doing this.  I cannot be certain it still does not occur, but any seller with a decent reputation and good feedback would not risk being permanently banned.  A quick Google search might tell you more about how frequently this still happens.

The seller is responsible for shipping.  Most use USPS in the USA, eBay sellers can get discounted shipping prices through USPS by being affiliated with eBay.

Hope that helps.  Google is your friend if you have more eBay specific questions.


----------



## cddc

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation, buddy! It definitely helps.

I did not use eBay a lot, and so know little about eBay...only started using it since became addicted to tubes...will do some Googling to get more acquaintance with eBay.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

!!!!!


----------



## DMR14

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah was up all night reading over there,as well as other sites. Folks with some serious high end gear use these products and swear by them,then there's this guy,who I like to watch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hello all, I am a long time follower of this forum and currently waiting on my amp. I was planning to introduce myself here when I have the amp but I would like to share my personal experience with SOtM SMS-200. This is a great forum to learn and this would be one of the very few opportunities for me to contribute to members here as I am just a person who enjoys the music. 
Anyhow, I did search between Sonore and SMS200 and eventually purchased SMS200 in the end. I would not get into the sound quality as I am not in a position to say that but I can certainly say network strength/stability does play a huge role (not just seamless operation/smooth flow). All I can say is when it operates, it sounds as good as playing CD. I looked into this one for the convenient factor for the most.
When it comes down to stability of the Interface, it is very dependent on the strength of network connectivity and constant power supply to the unit. After a series of firmware updates, it becomes very stable; however, I still pay very close attention to it since I had to format the SD card that it comes with it multiple times. When you rebuild the SD card, you have to update the firmware all over again. There is a small reset switch and it has become my go to button whenever I cannot reach Eunhasu interface or my Jriver cannot connect to SMS 200. If that doesn't work, then reformat the SD card route. SOtM has a battery power supply unit and I do believe they sell this to mate with SMS 200 for a reason. I currently use iFi power supply but I am constantly tinkering the idea of getting the battery unit from SOtM or sbooster power supply however I am not sure whether it will yield any peace of mind.
Based on my limited trials and errors, I am settled with the free Jriver app interface (not the best/perfect) but free to control music playing from Jriver and NAS (as you can tell, I do not want to spend any more money/efforts into this). When you first hit play via the app, the entire system takes about anywhere between 5 and 10 seconds to initially buffers up then plays. After that, maybe 1 to 2 seconds delay in play. I do not use Roon and/or any other options so I cannot really help there. I will say stability of the interface is the secondary matter. Stability of the unit in operation is the key factor of SMS200 (at least to my case). 
I know I make it sounds a horrible product but it is certainly not. I just wanted to provide my honest feedback. Customer support is GREAT tho. When I had an issue with this item, their chief engineer contacted me for resolution. Now they have a US distributor so it may seem getting better/easier to deal with. When I got mine, it was shipped from Korea so I just gave up on returning it. Hope it helps a little.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Interesting read on the SMS 200. I’m using an Innuos Zen mk2 and it’s software is really stable. The experience is really seamless when I pair it with the roon software.


----------



## Monsterzero

Sound Trooper said:


> Interesting read on the SMS 200. I’m using an Innuos Zen mk2 and it’s software is really stable. The experience is really seamless when I pair it with the roon software.



Yeah I decided on an Innous product as well. Just waiting on my new DAC to get built.


----------



## mordy

cddc said:


> Thank you very much for the detailed explanation, buddy! It definitely helps.
> 
> I did not use eBay a lot, and so know little about eBay...only started using it since became addicted to tubes...will do some Googling to get more acquaintance with eBay.


Hi cddc,
IMHO the scammers selling tubes on eBay are not to be found in the $1 starting bid category, but it the very high priced items. Some sellers (names will be supplied on request) are pushing up the prices higher and higher. I have seen very expensive items that were heavily used to be sold as NOS, and tubes being totally misrepresented. A common example is inexpensive Russian 6AS7 tubes that have been relabeled and reboxed as other famous brands and sold for hundreds of dollars instead of $15-30.
If you use PayPal together with a credit card you are fairly safe, and PayPal and eBay will advocate for you.
It is always a good idea to check the feedback and read through the negatives if there are some. Sometimes there is a lower feedback profile, but reading through the negatives you realize that they pertain to other items such as clothing and not tubes as an example.
I once bought an item from China that started very low and I won the auction at a very low price. The seller emailed me that he wanted to cancel the transaction because the selling price was below his cost, claiming that he was new to eBay. A quick call to eBay customer service confirmed that he must sell the item at that price, and after eBay told him so, he shipped it right away.
There are bargains to be found, but not always easy. Sometimes an auction ends on a day when nobody looks at the screen (4th of July as an example, or Saturday nights etc), and sometimes the listing is written in such a way that a search does not show it easily (Two Hammersmith 1965 brand new GEC 6AS7 tubes in original boxes as an example, instead of GEC 6AS7 NOS).
And the same tube that a granddaughter of a radio shop owner sells for $10 could cost $80 from a professional seller....And on and on....
Good luck!


----------



## cddc (Jul 21, 2019)

Great, thanks very much for the cool tips, mordy!

So far so good I would say with my little eBay experience. I bought all items from sellers with 100% positive feedbacks, and were aware of some of the notorious scammers, such as the rebranded Russian Winged C with inverted saucer, bangybang (just couldn't figure out how he still maintains 100% feedbacks thou...LOL ), etc.

I was checking eBay this afternoon and became curious about how these $1 starting price auctions will end if few people notice them and only 1 or 2 people place a dollar or two bid on them just for fun.

Glad that you and LG gave very detailed explanation and tips on how eBay works. Much appreciate it!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I purchased Wazzupi's GOTL  should hopefully have it later this week.  I had contacted him a few months ago, but it didn't work out.  Glad I tried again.

I. AM. STOKED.

I apologize in advance for the torrent of impressions and photos, but I love tube rolling.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> I purchased Wazzupi's GOTL  should hopefully have it later this week.  I had contacted him a few months ago, but it didn't work out.  Glad I tried again.
> 
> I. AM. STOKED.
> 
> I apologize in advance for the torrent of impressions and photos, but I love tube rolling.




Congrats...you have perhaps saved yourself a long wait.
Enjoy the amp and have fun.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> I purchased Wazzupi's GOTL  should hopefully have it later this week.  I had contacted him a few months ago, but it didn't work out.  Glad I tried again.
> 
> I. AM. STOKED.
> 
> I apologize in advance for the torrent of impressions and photos, but I love tube rolling.



Congratulations L0rdGwyn! You're going to love it. 

Glenn's OTL is probably the best blind purchase I've ever made.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> Congratulations L0rdGwyn! You're going to love it.
> 
> Glenn's OTL is probably the best blind purchase I've ever made.



Thanks Phantaminum, I think I will!  The big question I am going to have when it is front of me is where to begin tube-wise?  Do I go to 60mph right out of the gate, or work my way there?


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks Phantaminum, I think I will!  The big question I am going to have when it is front of me is where to begin tube-wise?  Do I go to 60mph right out of the gate, or work my way there?


What would you consider 60mph?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> What would you consider 60mph?



That would mean using what I think are my best tubes.  Maybe a Mullard ECC32 input and Western Electric 421A output?  Or an all Fivre setup, 6C5G input and 6BX7 output?

With the other approach, I think I would spend some time with the stock tubes for a while and get used to the sound before moving on.  But the Brimar 13D1 is no slouch I'm certain.


----------



## heliosphann

Ugh, stupid Indiana. I just found out a few weeks ago EBAY started charging sales tax.


----------



## mordy

heliosphann said:


> Ugh, stupid Indiana. I just found out a few weeks ago EBAY started charging sales tax.


You are not alone:
Update 6/30/19: eBay will begin collecting sales tax in the following states on July 1st, 2019:


Alabama
Arkansas
Indiana
Kentucky
New Mexico
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Dakota
Virginia
West Virginia
Wyoming
Vermont
They will begin collecting sales tax on these states starting October 1st:


California
North Dakota
South Carolina
Texas
Utah
They already collect sales tax in these states:


Minnesota
Washington
Iowa
Connecticut
District of Columbia
Nebraska
New Jersey


If you live in California, maybe now is the time to buy lol......If you are using a credit card, two charges will be listed: The selling price and the sales tax separately.


----------



## mordy

Hi Glenn,
I am only asking this because I am sitting on a large stash of EF95 family tubes. These draw 0.175A each. There is available a dual EF95 to 6SN7 adapter.
Is there any compelling reason to try these tubes in the GOTL?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> I am only asking this because I am sitting on a large stash of EF95 family tubes. These draw 0.175A each. There is available a dual EF95 to 6SN7 adapter.
> Is there any compelling reason to try these tubes in the GOTL?



You can try them no reason not to.  I have no idea how they will sound.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks Phantaminum, I think I will!  The big question I am going to have when it is front of me is where to begin tube-wise?  Do I go to 60mph right out of the gate, or work my way there?



Go big or go home. 

Says the guy who is wondering where all the money in his savings account disappeared to...


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Do I go to 60mph right out of the gate, or work my way there?


Well, if you think that tube rolling and finding the ideal tube is like a marathon race, a work colleague once told me:
"The way to win a marathon is start off as fast as you can, and keep accelerating..."


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> That would mean using what I think are my best tubes.  Maybe a Mullard ECC32 input and Western Electric 421A output?  Or an all Fivre setup, 6C5G input and 6BX7 output?
> 
> With the other approach, I think I would spend some time with the stock tubes for a while and get used to the sound before moving on.  But the Brimar 13D1 is no slouch I'm certain.



You might as well start with the best ECC32 or 13D1 and the WE421As and see what the amp sounds like.
Then play with the other tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Great advice all around  okay, I will run the 421As first and go with the 13D1/ECC32 as drivers, then give the 6BX7s a shot.  Thanks everyone!


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 22, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Great advice all around  okay, I will run the 421As first and go with the 13D1/ECC32 as drivers, then give the 6BX7s a shot.  Thanks everyone!




You will be hearing the amp very close to it's best with this combo IMO.  I don't own the 421A, but the 5998 is among my couple of favorites and the ECC32 are the same.
I don't listen to 6BX7/6BL7 these days, but they are also very good as power tubes.

I am listening to GEC 6080 and ECC32 and it is also a heavenly sound...to be honest the ECC32 pairs well with all of my power tubes and it definitely deserves the accolades that it gets.
You may pair it with different power tubes depending on music you are listening to and headphones you are using.

I find the ECC35 the most picky of the ECC3X  drivers, due to it's higher gain.

The best thing is that the amp will sound very good , even with the cheapest of tubes.

With the great selection of tubes that you own, you are in for a wonderful time and some sublime listening sessions.....enjoy.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 22, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> You will be hearing the amp very close to it's best with this combo IMO.  I don't own the 421A, but the 5998 is among my couple of favorites and the ECC32 are the same.
> I don't listen to 6BX7/6BL7 these days, but they are also very good as power tubes.
> 
> I am listening to GEC 6080 and ECC32 and it is also a heavenly sound...to be honest the ECC32 pairs well with all of my power tubes and it definitely deserves the accolades that it gets.
> ...



Thanks for your encouraging words, Joe.  The ECC32 does have a reputation, I can't wait to hear it in an excellent amp.

I have heard the same about the ECC35 being finicky.  Right now, I have the ECC31 and ECC32.  I am holding off on the 33/35 until I have given these two some significant head-time and also see how I like using 6SL7s in the GOTL with their higher gain.

One reason I was drawn to the GOTL was because I already owned many compatible tubes like the 421A, but I hoarded even more to channel my excitement expecting a long wait.  Hopefully I can add some info to the thread that will be useful for current and future owners.

Very grateful everyone here has been welcoming and willing to answer all of my dumb questions!


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> You will be hearing the amp very close to it's best with this combo IMO.  I don't own the 421A, but the 5998 is among my couple of favorites and the ECC32 are the same.
> I don't listen to 6BX7/6BL7 these days, but they are also very good as power tubes.
> 
> I am listening to GEC 6080 and ECC32 and it is also a heavenly sound...to be honest the ECC32 pairs well with all of my power tubes and it definitely deserves the accolades that it gets.
> ...



The ECC32 is the closest to being a 6SN7 and should sound best in this circuit out of the ECC tubes.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks for your encouraging words, Joe.  The ECC32 does have a reputation, I can't wait to hear it in an excellent amp.
> 
> I have heard the same about the ECC35 being finicky.  Right now, I have the ECC31 and ECC32.  I am holding off on the 33/35 until I have given these two some significant head-time and also see how I like using 6SL7s in the GOTL with their higher gain.
> 
> ...



Very true.

Most of my ECC35's are quiet but, like anything that's close to a 6SL7 amplification factor, you'll find that you'll have to be more pickier with what you purchase. I've returned a few that were just too noisy and kept the rest.

Can't wait for you for you to give us your thoughts on the amp. It was like Christmas when most of us received ours.


----------



## whirlwind

Hey Deyan,
The FW4-500 adapter has arrived and it has been in my amp for well over an hour now and the adapter is barley warm.

Thanks so much for this, I now feel much better about running the GEC U18/20 rectifier.  You rock sir!


----------



## Deyan

Glad I was able to help. Looking at your amp I can't help but wonder why isn't anyone tried a something something to EL3N adapter.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 22, 2019)

Deyan said:


> Glad I was able to help. Looking at your amp I can't help but wonder why isn't anyone tried a something something to EL3N adapter.



Hi Deyan,

If you mean why has someone not tried an adapter in the GEL3N amp so you can use different tubes in it ?

Maybe someone who owns this amp has, but I can not really say as I have not. Maybe others have.

I have tried EL8 tubes, I really did not care for them in this amp. They were a little noisy and the sound was small compared to the EL3N.  The EL3N is one of my favorite tubes and in this amp Glenn has them biased to run at optimum as strapped triodes I believe.
I think he also used them as power and driver tubes for harmonic distortion.

To my ears these EL3N tubes are what I call warm, meaning the treble is easy on the ears, no hint of brightness and definitely no sibilance....but the dynamics are killer.

Kick butt bass that is textured and very nice mids with a treble that is kind on the ears.....I play this damn amp too loud most of the time!


----------



## Deyan

I can't say anything since I don't use tubes or anything for that matter to listen music. But was just suggesting. The pentode of the EBL21 is a successor of the EL3 for instance.


----------



## whirlwind

Deyan said:


> I can't say anything since I don't use tubes or anything for that matter to listen music. But was just suggesting. The pentode of the EBL21 is a successor of the EL3 for instance.



Well, never say never , as I am sure that someone who buys this amp will be all in for trying some adapters and different tubes.

I am not interested, but you can pretty much bet that someone will be


----------



## 2359glenn

Deyan said:


> I can't say anything since I don't use tubes or anything for that matter to listen music. But was just suggesting. The pentode of the EBL21 is a successor of the EL3 for instance.



you have a base that goes into a side contact socket??


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 22, 2019)

Wow I didn't know about this tube looks great and cheep too.
Plus loctal no crazy side pin socket.
I wonder if it sounds as good as a EL3N.


----------



## leftside

I’m taking a slightly different approach for when Glenn builds my amp. Octal sockets for EL34 / 6V6 / 6K6 / 6L6 power tubes and then getting Deyan to build me a EL3N to EL34 adapter


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> I’m taking a slightly different approach for when Glenn builds my amp. Octal sockets for EL34 / 6V6 / 6K6 / 6L6 power tubes and then getting Deyan to build me a EL3N to EL34 adapter



This EBL21 is another tube you can try with a octal to loctal  adapter


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 22, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Wow I didn't know about this tube looks great and cheep too.
> Plus loctal no crazy side pin socket.
> I wonder if it sounds as good as a EL3N.



Think these will work well in the GOTL C3g sockets, Glenn? Different pinout, unfortunately.  The envelope includes two diodes as well as the pentode.  More business for Deyan


----------



## gibosi

Deyan said:


> Glad I was able to help. Looking at your amp I can't help but wonder why isn't anyone tried a something something to EL3N adapter.



To my mind, the most obvious choice is EL11 to EL3N. Since the EL11 is electrically identical, this would give GELN3 owners the ability to try Telefunken EL11 in their amp.


----------



## gibosi

To drastically change the subject....

Given the recent chatter here about trying 12AT7's in the OTL, I decided to chase after an Innoval ECC81 manufactured by Valvo. The Innoval series, launched in 1950, was Philips' attempt to make the most advanced vacuum tube of its time.

The major problem in the manufacture of 9-pin all glass miniatures was related to the sealing-in process. Specifically, the sealing of the glass button pin base to the bulb required raising the temperature of the glass to around 900C, or 1,650F. At this temperature, cathode poisoning and other adverse chemical changes were possible resulting in decreased emission and/or a shorter operational life.

Further, at that temperature, the glass base was beginning to melt and the pins often shifted out of alignment. Therefore, the external portion of the pins had to be made out of a soft metal to allow the pins to be straightened later, with force, without cracking the glass. And if the pins moved out of alignment, the electrode structure might also shift slightly which could affect the operational characteristics. Typically, mica spacers contacting the sides of bulb were used to help to keep the electrodes aligned.

In Innoval tubes a powdered glass cement was used to seal the base to the bulb. The required temperature to melt this mixture was about half that of a conventional 9-pin glass tube, about 450C, or 840F. As a result, the possibility of cathode poisoning was no longer a concern. And as the glass base was not raised to its melting point, pin misalignment was also not a problem, and it was possible to use a single piece of hard metal, such as chrome-iron for the pins. The electrode assembly was typically supported by rods which were extensions of these pins. This resulted in a very rigid electrode assembly and it was no longer necessary for the mica spacers to contact the sides of the bulb. The Innoval process resulted in tubes with tighter tolerances, more resistance to shock and vibration, and less microphonic.

However, considering that most of these tubes were for use in radio and tv, the higher quality was overkill. And unfortunately, the manufacturing process proved to be too expensive and thus most of the Innoval line faded away after only a few years. Also, the ECC81 was the only double triode in the Innoval series. 

Note below, the cement line at the base and also note that the mica spacers do not touch the glass. Oh, and it sounds great! Yes, it is very quiet. Like most Valvo production, it has more treble emphasis and air than I prefer, but matched with the darker Mazda UU8 rectifier, this is a sound I can happily live with.


----------



## Deyan

2359glenn said:


> you have a base that goes into a side contact socket??


I do. Quite a lot actually.


----------



## Khragon

Glenn team... Finally decided to part with my Glenn 300B due to lack of use...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/glenn-300b-amp.911550/

Please let me know if you're interested. 

Thanks guys


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Odd request, but if anyone has any 5998 singles they would like to part with (for purchase or maybe tube trade) that have a 543 or 626 date code or close to it, please let me know  1955 and 1956.  I have NOS singles of these myself, would like to make a date-matched pair out of one or the other if possible, thanks!


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Think these will work well in the GOTL C3g sockets, Glenn? Different pinout, unfortunately.  The envelope includes two diodes as well as the pentode.  More business for Deyan



Just hook the diode plates to the cathode.  It will act a little like a shield


----------



## 2359glenn

@Deyan 
Do you have any 9 pin Magnoval tube base??  These are not the 9 pin miniature tubes.
9 pin Base like on a EL509?


----------



## Deyan

2359glenn said:


> @Deyan
> Do you have any 9 pin Magnoval tube base??  These are not the 9 pin miniature tubes.
> 9 pin Base like on a EL509?



I have some. Not a lot but around 10


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Odd request, but if anyone has any 5998 singles they would like to part with (for purchase or maybe tube trade) that have a 543 or 626 date code or close to it, please let me know  1955 and 1956.  I have NOS singles of these myself, would like to make a date-matched pair out of one or the other if possible, thanks!




As long as those tubes both test about the same, I doubt very much if you will hear any difference...I have a couple of matched pair and a couple of pair that are a couple of years apart
and I can not tell any difference in the sound from one pair to another.

Maybe your ears can though, who knows.  If it is OCD then by all means get them matched  

I will be in your neck of the woods come March, my wife scored us third row tickets for Joe Bonamassa at the Connor Palace on March 6th.
I  love the Playhouse Square, such a cool district with everything in walking distance.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 24, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> As long as those tubes both test about the same, I doubt very much if you will hear any difference...I have a couple of matched pair and a couple of pair that are a couple of years apart
> and I can not tell any difference in the sound from one pair to another.
> 
> Maybe your ears can though, who knows.  If it is OCD then by all means get them matched
> ...



It is 100% OCD, Joe!  I doubt I would be able to tell them apart and their internal construction is identical.  Slim chance anyone has the exact match I'm looking for, but what the heck, figured I would ask.  I'll probably end up using them as a pair together.

And that's awesome!  Should be a killer show, I hear he is great live.  Playhouse Square is fantastic, I go there a few times a year for plays/concerts/stand-up.  Cleveland has a lot of little known gems, Playhouse Square is definitely one of them.  Fun fact, it is the largest performing arts center in the USA outside of NYC.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> It is 100% OCD, Joe!  I doubt I would be able to tell them apart and their internal construction is identical.  Slim chance anyone has the exact match I'm looking for, but what the heck, figured I would ask.  I'll probably end up using them as a pair together.
> 
> And that's awesome!  Should be a killer show, I hear he is great live.  Playhouse Square is fantastic, I go there a few times a year for plays/concerts/stand-up.  Cleveland has a lot of little known gems, Playhouse Square is definitely one of them.  Fun fact, it is the largest performing arts center in the USA outside of NYC.




We made our first trip to Playhouse Square about 8 years ago and the wife and I fell in love with it and have been going back ever since for a weekend, usually to take in a concert, then have a few cocktails afterwards and then spend the night at one of the hotels.
the layout is just so cool as we love that we can park the car at the hotel and take off on foot.

When are you expecting your amp ?

Look forward to hearing your impressions of it.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> We made our first trip to Playhouse Square about 8 years ago and the wife and I fell in love with it and have been going back ever since for a weekend, usually to take in a concert, then have a few cocktails afterwards and then spend the night at one of the hotels.
> the layout is just so cool as we love that we can park the car at the hotel and take off on foot.
> 
> When are you expecting your amp ?
> ...



It should be in the mail either tomorrow or Friday.  I am thinking I will get it on Monday, but if it came on Saturday I would be absolutely ecstatic.  Can't wait to jam out with the Auteur, Atticus, and HD650.  I think my Bottlehead amp is going to be moved to full time vinyl duty and the GOTL will become my main digital amplifier.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

No GOTL yet, but I did get some more tubes, a nice pair of Italian Sicte 6J5GT.  These have pleasant sound, very resolving, and you of course get the fashionable Italian labels.  Once it has settled in, I am going to a do a little shootout of the 6J5s I have collected in the GOTL.  Bold statement, but so far, I am finding the 6J5s I have easily compete with the best of the 6SN7s.  I wonder if there is some inherent advantage to having the two triodes in separate glass.  Less crosstalk perhaps? I don't know, but they sound really good.


----------



## whirlwind

That is a great looking adapter by Deyan.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 26, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> That is a great looking adapter by Deyan.



It really is, I am a sucker for looks in audio gear.  Some of the Chinese-made 6J5 to 6SN7 adapters I've seen around are a little...aesthetically challenged.  Deyan's is pretty much flush with the socket on the bottom, I like the minimalist look at the fact that it does not stand out, it will just blend in with the style of the amp.  I got a look at the one Deyan made for @leftside and pulled the trigger.  It also rotates 180 degrees in either direction so you can align it how you like or fit it into tightish spaces.  

Thanks again, Deyan!

Compare it to this:


----------



## Deyan

L0rdGwyn said:


> It really is, I am a sucker for looks in audio gear.  Some of the Chinese-made 6J5 to 6SN7 adapters I've seen around are a little...aesthetically challenged.  Deyan's is pretty much flush with the socket on the bottom, I like the minimalist look at the fact that it does not stand out, it will just blend in with the style of the amp.  I got a look at the one Deyan made for @leftside and pulled the trigger.  It also rotates 180 degrees in either direction so you can align it how you like or fit it into tightish spaces.
> 
> Thanks again, Deyan!
> 
> Compare it to this:



Glad you like it. All the extra work and the hype surrounding the adapters really helps a lot.


----------



## gibosi

I keep coming back to the older flat-black embossed Lorenz C3g. And I especially enjoy these with a fairly bright rectifier.

This evening with four Tung-Sol 6BX7GT and a mesh-plate Loewe Radio AZ12.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I keep coming back to the older flat-black embossed Lorenz C3g. And I especially enjoy these with a fairly bright rectifier.
> 
> This evening with four Tung-Sol 6BX7GT and a mesh-plate Loewe Radio AZ12.




I really like the Loewe Radio AZ12 rectifier in the GEL3N amp, great sound from this old rectifier not to mentioned it looks great too!  I think the Telefunken AZ12 is brighter yet, but I prefer the Loewe Radio over the Telefunken..
I lost a Lorenz C3g and need to replace it, just lost all sound.

I just rolled in the TSBGRP 6F8G this morning. to my ears they are very similar to 6 and 12 volt SN7 tubes.
I know some people report that the 6F8G can be noisy but  mine are all quiet and the sound from top to bottom is right up their as one of my favorites.
Hard to find fault with it honestly.

 



I am listening to JB play a Gary Moore cover of Midnight Blues.
Not as good as Gary's....but heavenly non the less.


----------



## 2359glenn

I was asked about using a 5U4G in the OTL this was my answer
I said this in the past but most have forgot

OK
one 6AS7 draws 120ma so two draw 240ma and about 30 for the 6SN7 = 270ma
But it is worse the rectifier has to also recharge the filter capacitors.
When the rectifier turns AC to DC it comes out as pulses when the AC sign wave is at 0 there is nothing
coming out of the rectifier. So the amp is running off the charge on the filter capacitors.
This has to be replaced when the sign wave comes back up.
I can go into a lot of detail on this but most won't understand.
the current will be well over 300ma

The Amp was designed to run with a 3DG4 or 5AU4 that can handle 350ma.  Really the 3DG4 lower voltage drop
I don't know what people think of the SQ of these tubes but the amp was made to run on them.
Most or all other rectifier tubes are being cooked running in this amp when running 6AS7s worse if running 6336.
OK when running 6BX7 or 6BL7 a 5U4 will be OK


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I was asked about using a 5U4G in the OTL this was my answer
> I said this in the past but most have forgot
> 
> OK
> ...




Hi Glenn,

Am I correct thinking there are no worries with this issue with the GEL3N amp ?


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> Hi Glenn,
> 
> Am I correct thinking there are no worries with this issue with the GEL3N amp ?





whirlwind said:


> Hi Glenn,
> 
> Am I correct thinking there are no worries with this issue with the GEL3N amp ?


Your 422A can handle 400, so no worries.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Hi Glenn,
> 
> Am I correct thinking there are no worries with this issue with the GEL3N amp ?



No the EL3N amp draws about 100ma so you are able to use a 5Y3 or 80 tube or most any other 3 , 4 or 5 volt rectifier.
The rectifiers in your OTL can handle 440ma


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> No the EL3N amp draws about 100ma so you are able to use a 5Y3 or 80 tube or most any other 3 , 4 or 5 volt rectifier.
> The rectifiers in your OTL can handle 440ma



I thought so, but just wanted you to confirm....thanks Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> Your 422A can handle 400, so no worries.



Yes the 422A is a great tube to use in this amp for those that can afford it the 3DG4 costs under $10.
Does the 422A sound $400 dollars better I don't think so.


----------



## whirlwind

I have not been able to find a WE422A for a price that I am comfortable paying.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I have not been able to find a WE422A for a price that I am comfortable paying.



Great tube but getting rare and the price is crazy. 422A Probably the best tube in the OTL But your 42EC4s are stronger.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> I have not been able to find a WE422A for a price that I am comfortable paying.


I don't have many rectifier tubes. But the 422a is the one I can recommend without reservation.

The price of the tube is actually cheaper then a couple of years ago.


----------



## whirlwind

attmci said:


> I don't have many rectifier tubes. But the 422a is the one I can recommend without reservation.
> 
> The price of the tube is actually cheaper then a couple of years ago.





2359glenn said:


> Great tube but getting rare and the price is crazy. 422A Probably the best tube in the OTL But your 42EC4s are stronger.




Yeah and they are as cheap as the 3DG4, you need two of them...but still, you can't beat that.

I know at one time they got a bad rap because one blew in someone's amp and caused some problems.

I have run these tubes for years now without any sign of trouble and I love the way you have them wired for a slow start -up.
 Plus, they remind me of the times with my father in the TV repair shop...those were great times...I fell in love with tubes seeing all of the different TV and radio tubes.
Maybe one can be spotted here.


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> I don't have many rectifier tubes. But the 422a is the one I can recommend without reservation.
> 
> The price of the tube is actually cheaper then a couple of years ago.



Not that cheep
I use all the best amplifier tubes GEC 6AS7 nd GEC  L63 drivers.
I like my El cheapo Russian 5U8C the voltage drop with the Heybore transformer gives me a perfect 250 volts
125 to each 1/2 of the 6AS7.
I like to follow the tube manufacture specs. I feel this gives the best sound.
What do I know I just feel better when everything is running right.


----------



## 2359glenn (Jul 28, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Yeah and they are as cheap as the 3DG4, you need two of them...but still, you can't beat that.
> 
> I know at one time they got a bad rap because one blew in someone's amp and caused some problems.
> 
> ...



Yes it is to the left of the big horizontal output tube.
A tube can't be judged by one failure. And I believe I said to use the RCAs


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> I was asked about using a 5U4G in the OTL this was my answer
> I said this in the past but most have forgot
> 
> OK
> ...



Currently, my tube compatibility table lists 5U4GB says "'B' is important. 5U4G is not compatible!"
Maybe I should add: "5U4G is OK when running 6BX7 or 6BL7 but not for other output tubes!"


----------



## UsoppNoKami

#hoarderlife


----------



## heliosphann

UsoppNoKami said:


> #hoarderlife


Savage


----------



## heliosphann

Zachik said:


> Currently, my tube compatibility table lists 5U4GB says "'B' is important. 5U4G is not compatible!"
> Maybe I should add: "5U4G is OK when running 6BX7 or 6BL7 but not for other output tubes!"



I believe you can run x4 6BX7/6BL7's, but x6 is too much.


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> I believe you can run x4 6BX7/6BL7's, but x6 is too much.



You can run all 6 they draw less current in this circuit.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 28, 2019)

More tubes.

I bought a Western Electric JW 2C51 to use in the GOTL.  I loved the 2C51/5670 tubes in a few amps I used to own, but ended up selling my collection when I changed amps.  At one point I had every 2C51 under the sun.  This was my favorite.

Generally, I find that the 9-pin miniatures in my collection have a hard time keeping up with the octals (granted, I never dropped CRAZY money on 9-pins, but I have some very good ones), but this tube is absolutely an exception.  Has a tight, energetic sound with great low end.  Glad I bought another!

Looking forward to an all Western Electric setup in the GOTL with the 421A  it is in the mail, should have it by Wednesday or Thursday.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 28, 2019)

UsoppNoKami said:


> #hoarderlife



I can relate, I am being walled in by tubes as I sit at my desk.  Soon they'll have to excavate me out of a tube mound to save me from suffocation.


----------



## Zachik

heliosphann said:


> I believe you can run x4 6BX7/6BL7's, but x6 is too much.





2359glenn said:


> You can run all 6 they draw less current in this circuit.



OK - updated my table to reflect this info. Thanks!


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> The Amp was designed to run with a 3DG4 or 5AU4 that can handle 350ma



And there is also the 5CU4, rated at 385ma. Unfortunately, this tube is fairly rare but it's usually cheap.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> And there is also the 5CU4, rated at 385ma. Unfortunately, this tube is fairly rare but it's usually cheap.



I forgot to mention that one one of the best. The 5CU4 was really only used in high power audio amplifiers.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I forgot to mention that one one of the best. The 5CU4 was really only used in high power audio amplifiers.




I have one of these, I bought it from Stan at ESRC


----------



## Phantaminum

@2359glenn 

What do you think about the 6AS7GT tubes in this amp? Look to be output tubes and i’m wondering if they will work like 6080s or possibly 6BX7S.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> @2359glenn
> 
> What do you think about the 6AS7GT tubes in this amp? Look to be output tubes and i’m wondering if they will work like 6080s or possibly 6BX7S.


This is what the Radiomuseum says:

Power/Output 
Identical to 6AS7GT = 6SA7GT
*Base* Octal 
*Filament* Vf 6.3 Volts / If 2.5 Ampere / Indirect / Parallel, (AC/DC)
*Description* Note: no 6AS7GT was ever registered. The 6AS7G was registered in January 1946 and the first tubular envelope variant, the 6AS7GA, was registered in 1955. 
Almost certainly this tube was created due to a mistyping, 6AS7GT instead of the well known converter 6SA7GT.


----------



## Deyan

Level up!!!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Deyan said:


> Level up!!!!



What is the top wired for, Deyan?


----------



## Deyan

6M5


----------



## Monsterzero

What the hell? These look like nuclear reactors.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> What the hell? These look like nuclear reactors.





Ha ....indeed they do!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 29, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> What the hell? These look like nuclear reactors.




The real question is, what kind of adapter do I need to run them in the GOTL?

If one arcs on startup, it might kill me, hmm...


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> What the hell? These look like nuclear reactors.




Craziness Wonder what voltage that tube runs at.
And how long are the parts in that hot chassis going to last.

Quite a headphone amp.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> This is what the Radiomuseum says:
> 
> Power/Output
> Identical to 6AS7GT = 6SA7GT
> ...



Cool. Wondering if it's also compatible in this amp. Seems to be almost the same as the 6AS7GAs.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> Cool. Wondering if it's also compatible in this amp. Seems to be almost the same as the 6AS7GAs.



I think the Radiomuseum text means that there is no such tube as a 6AS7GT. It is a typo. It appears that the 6AS7G and 6AS7GA are the only versions out there.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> I think the Radiomuseum text means that there is no such tube as a 6AS7GT. It is a typo. It appears that the 6AS7G and 6AS7GA are the only versions out there.



The reason I ask is because of an eBay posting:


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> The reason I ask is because of an eBay posting:



Note the positions of S and A. 6AS7 and 6SA7 are very different tubes. That is, a 6SA7GT is a "pentagrid converter" which is very different than a 6AS7G.


----------



## heliosphann

Phantaminum said:


> The reason I ask is because of an eBay posting:



Those crazy Italians just love adding "GT" to everything.


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> Note the positions of S and A. 6AS7 and 6SA7 are very different tubes. That is, a 6SA7GT is a "pentagrid converter" which is very different than a 6AS7G.



Holy, my dyslexia must of been kicking hard today, lol! Thanks for catching that.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Holy, my dyslexia must of been kicking hard today, lol! Thanks for catching that.



6SA7 OK if you want a radio built.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 29, 2019)

On the subject of new output tubes, I was reading up on the 6AH4, approximately 1/2 a 6BX7.

You would need six adapters and a set of 12, a duodecet!  I wonder why no one has tried this yet


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> On the subject of new output tubes, I was reading up on the 6AH4, approximately 1/2 a 6BX7.
> 
> You would need six adapters and a set of 12, a duodecet!  I wonder why no one has tried this yet



I'm sure all those tubes will be as quite as a mouse!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 29, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> I'm sure all those tubes will be as quite as a mouse!



So really, you would need to find, maybe 20 for a quiet set?  It can be done!!!

With a pair of 6J5s and a triple driver setup with 6AH4 outputs, you could have 16 separate tubes in one head-amp, more if tube rectified.  That would have to be some sort of a record.

Joking of course but I would love to see someone try.


----------



## heliosphann

Just found a killer combo I'm using with my Aeolus.

WE 422a/TS 12SL7 BGRP/X2 GEC 6080WB & X2 'Funken 6080


----------



## mordy

heliosphann said:


> Those crazy Italians just love adding "GT" to everything.


GT = Gran Turismo or Grand Tourer




GT in tubes means Glass Tubular. And WGT means (military) rugged glass tubular.
As in my of my favorite drivers: NU 6SL7WGT


----------



## heliosphann

mordy said:


> GT = Gran Turismo or Grand Tourer
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Glad somebody got that...


----------



## mordy

heliosphann said:


> Just found a killer combo I'm using with my Aeolus.
> 
> WE 422a/TS 12SL7 BGRP/X2 GEC 6080WB & X2 'Funken 6080


Aha, now we are talking! I have been running two pairs of 6080 tubes for many weeks now (Bendix and RCA) + a pair of EL8s and only rolling drivers in the 6SN7 socket. 
Favorite drivers are NU 6N7GT/T, RCA 12SX7GT and NU 6SL7WGT. IMHO I get better results this way than with other combinations I tried.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Thank you Glenn


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 30, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Just found a killer combo I'm using with my Aeolus.
> 
> WE 422a/TS 12SL7 BGRP/X2 GEC 6080WB & X2 'Funken 6080




Not that it matters , as it does not effect the sound....but....

I really like the looks of the amp aesthetically, when the rectifier tube is out front and glowing instead of the caps being out front.

Really is elegant looking.

Great pic, and to think it sounds as good as it looks.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Looks fab! All this talk about the GOTL makes my itch for one too..


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 30, 2019)

Sound Trooper said:


> Looks fab! All this talk about the GOTL makes my itch for one too..



Hop in line....it starts back there ------ ....

Well worth the wait!


----------



## Phantaminum (Jul 30, 2019)

Found a great combination for the Verite. This has a deep sound stage and and fairly wide sound stage. Very layered and clearer sounding than most of my other tube combinations.

The GEC 6080 and Fivre 6SL7 (round top with spacers) are just a fanastic pairing. I usually like the warmer sound but this slightly brighter and does so many things right. I even thought I wasn’t going to use the GECs as I didn’t like them at first.


----------



## mordy

The GEC 6080 is a great sounding tube, but as always, in synergy with other tubes, amps and equipment.....


----------



## mordy

If somebody is looking for a Sylvania 6SN7W, here is a listing at the reasonable price of $35 shipped:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-J...rentrq:43adf3b516c0ac3d5d184479fff626ea|iid:1
The tube has a crack in the base (not any cause for worry IMHO) which can be fixed easily with a little crazy glue.
(there is a second tube at the same price, but this one measures better)


----------



## 2359glenn

For anyone looking for a GEC L63  I don't think these are the good ones but the price is right

https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/l63-cv1067-gec-kbz-nos-valvetube/


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> For anyone looking for a GEC L63  I don't think these are the good ones but the price is right
> 
> https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/l63-cv1067-gec-kbz-nos-valvetube/



Are there significant differences in sound between the GEC L63 and GEC B36? I was typing with Heliosphann last night and couldnt remember what the consensus was.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 30, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> For anyone looking for a GEC L63  I don't think these are the good ones but the price is right
> 
> https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/l63-cv1067-gec-kbz-nos-valvetube/



I'm looking for a pair.  Bought a shouldered grey glass pair, but one was a dud so I have to return...curious if the straight glass sound similar/the same, they are much cheaper and more common.

If I ever end up with both I will compare.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

GOTL set to be delivered today. Hopefully I don't scare away the FedEx guy when he sees me staring out my front door foaming at the mouth.


----------



## rnros

Congrats, LG. And... Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> GOTL set to be delivered today. Hopefully I don't scare away the FedEx guy when he sees me staring out my front door foaming at the mouth.



Enjoy dude! I have to tear down my listening set-up today for a mancave remodel. I will be down for about 2-3 weeks,which sucks. My new DAC is supposed to come in today too,but cant use til after remodeling is finished.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Enjoy dude! I have to tear down my listening set-up today for a mancave remodel. I will be down for about 2-3 weeks,which sucks. My new DAC is supposed to come in today too,but cant use til after remodeling is finished.


Hard to live without music so long!
Maybe just setting up something portable? (laptop to GOTL etc etc)


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Hard to live without music so long!
> Maybe just setting up something portable? (laptop to GOTL etc etc)



No way I will go without music. I will be using my den system. 
Schiit Modi>vintage Akai receiver>Rectilinear Highboy vintage speakers.

A massive step down,but it will suffice for a cpl weeks.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> No way I will go without music. I will be using my den system.
> Schiit Modi>vintage Akai receiver>Rectilinear Highboy vintage speakers.
> 
> A massive step down,but it will suffice for a cpl weeks.


Maybe inserting the GOTL in that chain as a tube buffer/preamp?


----------



## pippen99 (Jul 31, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> No way I will go without music. I will be using my den system.
> Schiit Modi>vintage Akai receiver>Rectilinear Highboy vintage speakers.
> 
> I love those speakers.  My 2nd favorite all time speaker next to my ADS Braun L810s


----------



## L0rdGwyn

The eagle has landed.

@wazzupi gave me the full experience, pool noodles and all!


 

Interior:


----------



## L0rdGwyn

And the money shot....holy crap.


----------



## Monsterzero

pippen99 said:


> love those speakers. My 2nd favorite all time speaker next to my ADS Braun L810s



Yeah theyre cool. They weigh 66lbs each. Big bold sound.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> And the money shot....holy crap.



Noice! Once you get some time with that puppy let us know what you think of it vs the Bottlehead amp you were using.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 31, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Noice! Once you get some time with that puppy let us know what you think of it vs the Bottlehead amp you were using.



Will do!  Definitely will need some time.  Right now I'm doing some rapid fire tube rolling to find where I want to settle and dig in, but I have to admit, that ECC32/421A combo I started with is pretty hard to beat.  Needless to say, this amp is killer dynamic.

@Monsterzero sorry to hear about the tear-down, but that new man-cave will no doubt take your listening experience to new heights.

Thanks for the well-wishes everyone, and big thanks to @2359glenn for designing such a great amp, have to mention that everything from the sockets to the power switch to the 1/4 jack feels very premium and satisfying.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I think it just dawned on me what an absurd amount of tubes I have to roll....


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I think it just dawned on me what an absurd amount of tubes I have to roll....



I only have about 40-50 tubes total,and after a year,I havent even come close to trying all the different combos.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> I think it just dawned on me what an absurd amount of tubes I have to roll....



It can get a bit...ludicrous. My wife stopped going to my desk looking for pens. The last exasperated cry was, “Why don’t you have pens and office supplies like normal people in your drawers? Instead I open them up and all I see is tube boxes!” 

I opened the bottom drawer and I handed her one pen that was stuck in the middle of two tube boxes, lol. Ah the good ol! stink eye.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> I only have about 40-50 tubes total,and after a year,I havent even come close to trying all the different combos.



Only 40-50? Hmmmm... I have something like 2000, and others have more than I.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Yes, I can imagine what I have should last me years, but there is always one more tube to try.

That is hilarious @Phantaminum , I get similar looks from my girlfriend.  I try to hide my tubes from her, but she ends up signing for my international packages, busted!

Things just got very, very interesting when I popped in some Siemens C3g and Fivre 6BX7.  I think I am gonna stay here for a while.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Only 40-50? Hmmmm... I have something like 2000, and others have more than I.



Yeah im still very much a tube noob,and now with my Lampizat0r 'tube roller paradise' DAC incoming I have to start all over learning different types of tubes.


----------



## wazzupi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Will do!  Definitely will need some time.  Right now I'm doing some rapid fire tube rolling to find where I want to settle and dig in, but I have to admit, that ECC32/421A combo I started with is pretty hard to beat.  Needless to say, this amp is killer dynamic.
> 
> @Monsterzero sorry to hear about the tear-down, but that new man-cave will no doubt take your listening experience to new heights.
> 
> Thanks for the well-wishes everyone, and big thanks to @2359glenn for designing such a great amp, have to mention that everything from the sockets to the power switch to the 1/4 jack feels very premium and satisfying.


I never took it apart you're diving right in !! I don't remember if i mentioned i included the fuse/ rca adapters provided for the 3 pin xlr i never knew what they were until i packed it and shipped it haha.


----------



## wazzupi

Phantaminum said:


> It can get a bit...ludicrous. My wife stopped going to my desk looking for pens. The last exasperated cry was, “Why don’t you have pens and office supplies like normal people in your drawers? Instead I open them up and all I see is tube boxes!”
> 
> I opened the bottom drawer and I handed her one pen that was stuck in the middle of two tube boxes, lol. Ah the good ol! stink eye.


Lololol


----------



## L0rdGwyn

wazzupi said:


> I never took it apart you're diving right in !! I don't remember if i mentioned i included the fuse/ rca adapters provided for the 3 pin xlr i never knew what they were until i packed it and shipped it haha.



Awesome, thanks Wazzupi!  I wanted to take a look inside as I am probably going to add a Goldpoint stepped attenuator and I am also thinking about changing the coupling caps (maybe not though, we'll see), had to check out the goods!


----------



## wazzupi

It was my baby took me like 8 months to finally let her go.


----------



## Phantaminum

wazzupi said:


> It was my baby took me like 8 months to finally let her go.



Have you moved on to a different amp? What do you have powering your headphones?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

wazzupi said:


> It was my baby took me like 8 months to finally let her go.



I will take good care of her!!!  Thanks again, Wazzupi.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> No way I will go without music. I will be using my den system.
> Schiit Modi>vintage Akai receiver>Rectilinear Highboy vintage speakers.
> 
> A massive step down,but it will suffice for a cpl weeks.




A man's gotta do with a man's gotta do ....just think of the good times ahead with than dac!


----------



## wazzupi

Phantaminum said:


> Have you moved on to a different amp? What do you have powering your headphones?


Just an atom i've gone the way of iems and closed back my new favorite closed back is the neumann ndh20 and my iem of choice sonys ier z1r but im buying a AK kann cube its on the way.


----------



## wazzupi

wazzupi said:


> Just an atom i've gone the way of iems and closed back my new favorite closed back is the neumann ndh20 and my iem of choice sonys ier z1r but im buying a AK kann cube its on the way.


I suggest you guys try it out 500 bucks can't go wrong neumann ndh20 150 ohm


----------



## leftside

wazzupi said:


> Just an atom i've gone the way of iems and closed back my new favorite closed back is the neumann ndh20 and my iem of choice sonys ier z1r but im buying a AK kann cube its on the way.


I've been having a lot of fun with IEMs, closed back headphones and a portable DAP/DAC this summer. Been doing a lot of listening outside. Hardly done any listening inside the house the last couple of months. AK kann or iBasso Max is on my watchlist for next year....


----------



## wazzupi

leftside said:


> I've been having a lot of fun with IEMs, closed back headphones and a portable DAP/DAC this summer. Been doing a lot of listening outside. Hardly done any listening inside the house the last couple of months. AK kann or iBasso Max is on my watchlist for next year....


If i could find more ibasso products in the market I would of probably just bought the dx220.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

True to form, the HD650 still climbs higher and higher, they have never sounded this good.  I used to think the whole "HD650 scales well" thing was bologna, glad I realized I was wrong.  Definitely a permanent fixture in my collection.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> True to form, the HD650 still climbs higher and higher, they have never sounded this good.  I used to think the whole "HD650 scales well" thing was bologna, glad I realized I was wrong.  Definitely a permanent fixture in my collection.



With a 6 pack of 6BX7s they can get downright punchy as heck. They can also extend pretty low with the right tube combination. It’s a very versatile, punchy, layered, and dynamic amp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> With a 6 pack of 6BX7s they can get downright punchy as heck. They can also extend pretty low with the right tube combination. It’s a very versatile, punchy, layered, and dynamic amp.



Absolutely, punchy is the right word for it, something I cannot remember ever saying about the HD650!  Enjoying the ride so far


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Monsterzero said:


> Enjoy dude! I have to tear down my listening set-up today for a mancave remodel. I will be down for about 2-3 weeks,which sucks. My new DAC is supposed to come in today too,but cant use til after remodeling is finished.


That has to be make you nuts... I bet you mentally prepared for that already.


----------



## Zachik

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> That has to be make you nuts... I bet you mentally prepared for that already.


Don't encourage him - first, the guy HAS a mancave (I am already jealous), and then - he's improving it!!! 
I want a mancave, too


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Zachik said:


> Don't encourage him - first, the guy HAS a mancave (I am already jealous), and then - he's improving it!!!
> I want a mancave, too


LOL! 

Good point...

I tried to man cave my basement once  but dang, we have so many totes down there it took forever to dig out a spot of my own. Then there’s the acoustics I was dealing with... thankfully I am allowed one room which holds all my audio stuff. I’m gracious to have that!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 31, 2019)

The Toshiba 6BX7 has a very pleasant glow from the filaments, I took a 15 second exposure photo, I think it came out well.


----------



## Monsterzero

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> That has to be make you nuts... I bet you mentally prepared for that already.



Oh,you have no idea just how much this is driving me nuts! Ive been mentally prepping for this for months,and now its about to happen....Grrrrrr.



Zachik said:


> Don't encourage him - first, the guy HAS a mancave (I am already jealous), and then - he's improving it!!!
> I want a mancave, too



When we were house shopping a finished basement was a must have. No way I was gonna buy a home w/o a mancave.

The 'improvements' are nothing im thrilled about,in fact were removing the gross carpeting and putting in hardwood floors,so there goes the acoustics right out the window,but it will improve the resell value of the home.
Three years and counting til we go to Arizona. No snow! However Az homes dont have basements,so I will lose my mancave,but if I never see another drop of snow or single digit temp it will be a worthwhile tradeoff.


----------



## leftside (Jul 31, 2019)

wazzupi said:


> If i could find more ibasso products in the market I would of probably just bought the dx220.


And you can get a tube amp module for it 
http://www.ibasso.com/cp_xq_dy.php?id=8744


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Three years and counting til we go to Arizona. *No snow! *However Az homes dont have basements,so I will lose my mancave,but if I never see another drop of snow or single digit temp it will be a worthwhile tradeoff.


Snow?  That's the white stuff one sees on TV and movies... right?  
(no complaints when it comes to my NorCal weather!)


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Snow?  That's the white stuff one sees on TV and movies... right?
> (no complaints when it comes to my NorCal weather!)



Yeah,thats the offensive substance. Im from SoCal,and lived in tropical climates for a good chunk of my adult life,but the last 5 years ive been here in NY.
@2359glenn thinks im a big baby,but im simply not built for this crap. Cant wait to get to the desert!


----------



## pippen99

I spent two years in Phoenix.  Could not get out of there fast enough.  Different strokes.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> @2359glenn thinks im a big baby,but im simply not built for this crap.


The 2 are not mutually exclusive!


----------



## Monsterzero

pippen99 said:


> I spent two years in Phoenix.  Could not get out of there fast enough.  Different strokes.



yeah,not moving to the desert to live in a big city. No thanks. somewhere with tumbleweeds,coyotes,javalinas,rattlesnakes,bobcats and great Mexican food is more my style.



Zachik said:


> The 2 are not mutually exclusive!



LOL,touche. i am a big baby about cold. I wont deny it.


----------



## rosgr63

L0rdGwyn said:


> The eagle has landed.
> 
> @wazzupi gave me the full experience, pool noodles and all!
> 
> ...



Congratulations!!!!!!!!

Beautiful amp, enjoy!!!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

L0rdGwyn said:


> True to form, the HD650 still climbs higher and higher, they have never sounded this good.  I used to think the whole "HD650 scales well" thing was bologna, glad I realized I was wrong.  Definitely a permanent fixture in my collection.



I have tried my HD650 with 5 different SE and XLR cables but they shine with my RAL cable.
I suggest you try it, you'll be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## m17xr2b (Aug 1, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> The Toshiba 6BX7 has a very pleasant glow from the filaments, I took a 15 second exposure photo, I think it came out well.


Is the C3g triode wired with both grids to anode?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

rosgr63 said:


> I have tried my HD650 with 5 different SE and XLR cables but they shine with my RAL cable.
> I suggest you try it, you'll be pleasantly surprised.



Thanks Stavros.  Does RAL sell the cable directly? Couldn't find it on their site.

Right now I am using a Moon Audio Black Dragon cable I made with Furutech and Eidolic connectors.  I built something similar for my ZMF headphones too, but I have been considering a change lately.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 1, 2019)

m17xr2b said:


> Is the C3g triode wired with both grids to anode?



Good question for Glenn (or Deyan), I am unsure if G3 is connected to anode or cathode.  But surely G2 is connected to anode.

Edit: I checked the thread, G3 to cathode.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,thats the offensive substance. Im from SoCal,and lived in tropical climates for a good chunk of my adult life,but the last 5 years ive been here in NY.
> @2359glenn thinks im a big baby,but im simply not built for this crap. Cant wait to get to the desert!



Yes snow sucks. I just said i grew up on long island and it didn't snow that much.
Are you ready for 120 deg heat?  I work in 120+ heat it is really bad I don't know how the workers do it all day.
I mostly am there to fix computers and frequency drives that blew up from the heat. 
And today is going to be another 120+ day I can't wait or the failures.  When you lick your finger and touch the heat sink and it sizzles you know the transistors are 
to hot.  Waiting for the big bang when the transistors in a 40 kilowatt amplifier blow running at 700 volts at 60 amps.


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 1, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Good question for Glenn (or Deyan), I am unsure if G3 is connected to anode or cathode.  But surely G2 is connected to anode.
> 
> Edit: I checked the thread, G3 to cathode.



The C3g is hooked up as a triode with anode tied to G2 through a 100 ohm snubber resister.
Yes G3 to cathode


----------



## rosgr63

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks Stavros.  Does RAL sell the cable directly? Couldn't find it on their site.
> 
> Right now I am using a Moon Audio Black Dragon cable I made with Furutech and Eidolic connectors.  I built something similar for my ZMF headphones too, but I have been considering a change lately.



I can't say, a friend who wanted to buy this nice cable a few weeks ago told me they might be out of business.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

rosgr63 said:


> I can't say, a friend who wanted to buy this nice cable a few weeks ago told me they might be out of business.



Thank you again for your offer, Stavros.

This morning I am listening to one of my favorite driver tubes, you'll never guess who recommended it to me, someone with very good taste.


----------



## rosgr63

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thank you again for your offer, Stavros.
> 
> This morning I am listening to one of my favorite driver tubes, you'll never guess who recommended it to me, someone with very good taste.



One of my  favourite tubes, the synergy with AVVT 32B-SL is magical

Thanks for trusting me.

Happy listening!!!


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Are you ready for 120 deg heat?



120 heat? No problem. Thats what a/c and pools are for,besides,no humidity.
If I can live in the Caribbean,Mexico and SE Asia for 16 years,where 80-95% humidity is the norm,with mosquitoes the size of sparrows,then 120 dry is a piece of cake.


----------



## pippen99

I think you will be a minority that believes 120 is not a problem.  It has gotten worse since I lived there.  The worst I remember from back then was 108.  Now (especially last year) multiple days of 115 are becoming the norm.  Coming from the Midwest I could deal with 108 during the day(A/C pools etc).  What put me on the move was that it was still over 100 at 2 in the morning.  Again different strokes.


----------



## Monsterzero

Yeah,i mean nobody wants 120 degrees,not even me,but 4 months of silly hot is better than 6-8 months of silly cold.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,i mean nobody wants 120 degrees,not even me,but 4 months of silly hot is better than 6-8 months of silly cold.



You have a point there.  If I never seen snow again it would be to soon after living in Upstate New York for 25 years.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> You have a point there.  If I never seen snow again it would be to soon after living in Upstate New York for 25 years.



I was born near Syracuse, moved to Cleveland young but will never forget the snow.

Cleveland has its fair share of bad weather, but when people here complain about the amount of snow...they just have no idea.


----------



## 2359glenn

One time we got 3 feet of snow over night and there was already a foot on the ground.
Couldn't even walk had to lie down and swim on top of it.


----------



## Monsterzero

Sorry for going off topic (again) but the Lampizat0r has landed! Having this in my home and not being able to use it for two weeks is gonna drive me insane.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thank you again for your offer, Stavros.
> 
> This morning I am listening to one of my favorite driver tubes, you'll never guess who recommended it to me, someone with very good taste.


How about a Toshiba 6SN7?
https://jacmusic.com/nos/6SN7/RFT/6SN7-RFT-Index.htm


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Sorry for going off topic (again) but the Lampizat0r has landed! Having this in my home and not being able to use it for two weeks is gonna drive me insane.




Oh man....you are going to need meds!


----------



## mixman

Sorry to crash the thread, but since there isn’t much info on these and to not have to read through 1,800 pages......what do these generally go for price wise ? Also, while I have a few high ohm dynamics...Verite, HD600,HD650......most of my other cans are low ohm planars. Would I be able to use this with them also?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 1, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Sorry for going off topic (again) but the Lampizat0r has landed! Having this in my home and not being able to use it for two weeks is gonna drive me insane.



Can't you relocate your setup temporarily, D? Or is it just not practical?  That is torture having to stare at gear that pretty for weeks.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 1, 2019)

@mixman Glenn makes various amps...

OTL
EL3N Transformer Coupled
300B

They all vary in prices ...OTL cheapest...EL3N...and finally 300B

The OTL is very can be customized with various options..so the price varies.


----------



## Monsterzero

mixman said:


> Sorry to crash the thread, but since there isn’t much info on these and to not have to read through 1,800 pages......what do these generally go for price wise ? Also, while I have a few high ohm dynamics...Verite, HD600,HD650......most of my other cans are low ohm planars. Would I be able to use this with them also?



I have used my Glenn to drive Empyrean,Ananda,K701(glorious sounding)Grados and Focal Stellia all while using 6336 tubes. I def prefer my ZMF pairings,but I liked the sound with low ohm headphones thru my GOTL that I sold off my GLM2,which I bought specifically for low ohm dynamics.

Price? I will let Glenn comment on that,but essentially it depends on how many options you want to add on to the base model.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> Oh man....you are going to need meds!


 Why,you got some to share?! 



L0rdGwyn said:


> Can't you relocate your setup temporarily, D? Or is it just not practical?  That is torture having to stare at gear that pretty for weeks.



Im setting up my computer in my den during construction,and theres really no place for me to put my main rig in there. 
I think im gonna add an Innous server after I sell my Vinshine DAC,so I would rather set it all up complete at the same time.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> How about a Toshiba 6SN7?
> https://jacmusic.com/nos/6SN7/RFT/6SN7-RFT-Index.htm



It is funny that you bring it up Mordy, I read the same bit from Jac, but I have not been able to find any other source stating the same as far as the Toshiba-Telefunken connection goes.  He is referring to the 6SN7GTB specifically.

From his price list, he says "These look so amazingly similar to Telefunken 6SN7, perhaps it is no coincidence. Well it is *just a speculation*, but it looks like this to me."

I don't own the Toshiba, I purchased one for a song, but the seller sent me a 6V6 instead!  Got a refund, but didn't follow through on getting the Toshiba.

These are the Japanese drivers I own, Hitachi 6SN7GTB, Hitachi 12SN7GT, Nippon Electric 6SN7GT (PRC rebrand), Nippon Electric 6SN7GT (although looks identical to -GTB).

 

And the two types of RFT tubes. If anything, the PRC-rebranded NEC 6SN7GT looks more similar to me with it's solid plates, but I think it is just coincidence.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Why,you got some to share?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Makes sense, godspeed sir.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> It is funny that you bring it up Mordy, I read the same bit from Jac, but I have not been able to find any other source stating the same as far as the Toshiba-Telefunken connection goes.  He is referring to the 6SN7GTB specifically.
> 
> From his price list, he says "These look so amazingly similar to Telefunken 6SN7, perhaps it is no coincidence. Well it is *just a speculation*, but it looks like this to me."
> 
> ...


I have a quad of Channel Master Japanese rebranded 6SN7GTB which I was able to identify as NEC tubes. Here is a current offering:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Channel-Ma...840402&hash=item3b32e82090:g:gvYAAOSwTO9c-uXg




Some Siemens tubes labeled Foreign were made in Japan, but the ones I have are not suitable in the GOTL.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> I have a quad of Channel Master Japanese rebranded 6SN7GTB which I was able to identify as NEC tubes. Here is a current offering:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Channel-Ma...840402&hash=item3b32e82090:g:gvYAAOSwTO9c-uXg
> 
> 
> ...



Great price to give a Japanese driver a try.  I like them a lot, but have not rolled them through the GOTL yet, I am working my way through some pentodes at the moment, these Mullard EL32s are pretty darn good sounding...


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Why,you got some to share?!
> Fred, according to Ken, there's no cure. Don't waste you $.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks Stavros.  Does RAL sell the cable directly? Couldn't find it on their site.
> 
> Right now I am using a Moon Audio Black Dragon cable I made with Furutech and Eidolic connectors.  I built something similar for my ZMF headphones too, but I have been considering a change lately.


I have black for 800 and silver for 650.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> I have black for 800 and silver for 650.



I use Black only because you cannot buy the silver in bulk as far as I know, I usually prefer to build the cables myself at a 50% discount, but it can be a PITA depending on what you are building.  I have been happy with them, mostly would like to try something else out of curiosity.  They could stand to be a smidge lighter.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 1, 2019)

Ooof, made a mistaken leaving my tester headphones plugged in while turning on the GOTL with my 421As, one of them arced ten seconds in, goodbye tester headphones!!!  I should have let them warm up first...I have had them arc quite a few times before and know better.

I have to admit, using 5998s and 421As these days gives me the heebee jeebees.  It is such a love-hate relationship, they sounds so good...looks like I am in the market for some crappy headphones.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ooof, made a mistaken leaving my tester headphones plugged in while turning on the GOTL with my 421As, one of them arced ten seconds in, goodbye tester headphones!!!  I should have let them warm up first...I have had them arc quite a few times before and know better.
> 
> I have to admit, using 5998s and 421As these days gives me the heebee jeebees.  It is such a love-hate relationship, they sounds so good...looks like I am in the market for some crappy headphones.



Ouch! Thank goodness it was the cheapo that bit the dust. Good practice. 

 Last week was a tough one for me. Lost two ECC35s and the tube that became my recent favorite the Fivre 12SL7. Two were my fault for not checking the voltage and one was the tube itself.


----------



## attmci (Aug 1, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Ouch! Thank goodness it was the cheapo that bit the dust. Good practice.
> 
> Last week was a tough one for me. Lost two ECC35s and the tube that became my recent favorite the Fivre 12SL7. Two were my fault for not checking the voltage and one was the tube itself.


Oh, no. Two ECC35 have stayed in my amp for a couple of weeks now. But why do you need two?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> Ouch! Thank goodness it was the cheapo that bit the dust. Good practice.
> 
> Last week was a tough one for me. Lost two ECC35s and the tube that became my recent favorite the Fivre 12SL7. Two were my fault for not checking the voltage and one was the tube itself.



Yeah, I wouldn't leave my real phones plugged in on startup, but I now realize leaving the cheap ones plugged in isn't a great idea either ha!  Even if they are sacrificial, no benefit in having a tube arc on them.

And that is rough, I am a big fan of Fivre tubes myself.  Live and learn and suppose!


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> I use Black only because you cannot buy the silver in bulk as far as I know, I usually prefer to build the cables myself at a 50% discount, but it can be a PITA depending on what you are building.  I have been happy with them, mostly would like to try something else out of curiosity.  They could stand to be a smidge lighter.


I used these according to their recommendations. I don't understand why Senn sale 800 and 650 with crappy cables.


----------



## Phantaminum

attmci said:


> Oh, no. Two ECC35 stays in my amp for a couple of weeks now. But why do you need two?



One burned out one day and the other another day. Didn’t have two in at the same time.


----------



## DecentLevi

Here was a quote from user @Taisser Roots after a brief try of a Glenn OTL amp at London CanJam last weekend. I'm not sure how much burn in the amp had, which tubes were in use or other customization options the amp had, but it makes me wonder what the $1700 IHA1 tube amp that appears a bit smaller may have against the Glenn amp.

_"Glenn otl
no proper reference here
Nice slam
Less air than the iha1, it's definitely darker.
Similar resolve to that thing, I think more dynamic than the iha1. (Actually iha1 is more resolving by a good amount)_

_Less stage cohesion, but the seperation and stage still come across naturally, not as wide as the iha1"
_
In response I did mention that the Glenn amps have a lot of potential depending on tubes used and other customizations. Though I still haven't heard the GOTL. It looks like it was finally their first time on exhibit, but somehow the setup didn't impress folks there too much.
@jelt2359 maybe you have an opinion too...


----------



## zach915m

DecentLevi said:


> Here was a quote from user @Taisser Roots after a brief try of a Glenn OTL amp at London CanJam last weekend. I'm not sure how much burn in the amp had, which tubes were in use or other customization options the amp had, but it makes me wonder what the $1700 IHA1 tube amp that appears a bit smaller may have against the Glenn amp.
> 
> _"Glenn otl
> no proper reference here
> ...



We had a great response to the Glenn Otl at CanJam London - numerous people offered to buy it on the spot (I could never part with my Glenn!) and many will be messaging Glenn I believe.  The value proposition of Glenn's amps are insane, and they are chameleons that will be the perfect amp depending on the tubes used for almost any full sized dynamic headphone. 

We did not have an Iha with the same tube compliment at the table so I'm not sure how comparisons were done. Both great amps for sure!


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 2, 2019)

Hello that's excellent it was well received at CanJam. I was only under the impression it didn't impress folks too much because only 2 people mentioned them briefly and one didn't seem very positive. I guess a lot of the good impressions were left out


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Here was a quote from user @Taisser Roots after a brief try of a Glenn OTL amp at London CanJam last weekend. I'm not sure how much burn in the amp had, which tubes were in use or other customization options the amp had, but it makes me wonder what the $1700 IHA1 tube amp that appears a bit smaller may have against the Glenn amp.
> 
> _"Glenn otl
> no proper reference here
> ...



I was going to comment but I won't
Only thing I bet you wish you had one!!!!!!!!!


----------



## m17xr2b

I heard the OTL at canjam as well, for my first time. I'm a tubeaholic and I've got a weakness for OTL designs. The tubes could have been better, the Mullard is not a particular spectacular example, on the warm side and lacks full air.  
Even so with my faithful HD650 I was impressed with the sonic performance, much more detail than I was expecting with great separation and sparkle, midrange was typical mullard, lush and inviting. Soundstage was well done, wide and a good sense of width and depth.  I can only imagine what it can do with GECs. 
My guess is whoever heard might have used the ZMF headphones which were unknown for him/her instead of a familiar headphones and couldn't asses the performance properly. The thing does look industrial but it does deliver.  Sometime I wish I could include it in my setup.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ooof, made a mistaken leaving my tester headphones plugged in while turning on the GOTL with my 421As, one of them arced ten seconds in, goodbye tester headphones!!!  I should have let them warm up first...I have had them arc quite a few times before and know better.
> 
> I have to admit, using 5998s and 421As these days gives me the heebee jeebees.  It is such a love-hate relationship, they sounds so good...looks like I am in the market for some crappy headphones.



I worn people about these tubes. Have a pair of 5998s and will never use them again they blew my HD-650s.
Must be a design flaw tn this type of tube.  It would go unnoticed as a voltage regulator that it was made for.


----------



## UntilThen

I thought I had weaned myself from posting.... until I got a PM from @Gkar asking me how's my Glenn 300b amp. Well Gkar I don't have a Glenn 300b amp and I haven't even powered on the GOTL for a month !

That is very rare... not using my GOTL for so long. I was just listening to my Axis VoiceBox S speakers powered by my Sansui au alpha 907mr.

Well that changed tonight when I decide to connect up my GOTL again with Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6bx7gt. Wow !!! I have forgotten how frightfully good this amp can drive the HD800 to incredible sonic delights. Looks like I'm right back into headphone listening again. Will have to try the LCD-3f later.

Congrats @L0rdGwyn  on the GOTL. So you bought it off @wazzupi. I thought you were in the queue for one yourself. It's a great sounding amp. Enjoy !

Here's a photo I just took of the GOTL besides the behemoth Sansui amp.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ooof, made a mistaken leaving my tester headphones plugged in while turning on the GOTL with my 421As, one of them arced ten seconds in, goodbye tester headphones!!!  I should have let them warm up first...I have had them arc quite a few times before and know better.
> 
> I have to admit, using 5998s and 421As these days gives me the heebee jeebees.  It is such a love-hate relationship, they sounds so good...looks like I am in the market for some crappy headphones.



Great sounding tubes...no doubt...dynamics are killer.
Don't plug any headphones in the amp for 10 minutes or so after start -up and always unplug them before powering down.
Seems you are having much fun with the amp.

How is the sound compared to your BHC ?







UntilThen said:


> I thought I had weaned myself from posting.... until I got a PM from @Gkar asking me how's my Glenn 300b amp. Well Gkar I don't have a Glenn 300b amp and I haven't even powered on the GOTL for a month !
> 
> That is very rare... not using my GOTL for so long. I was just listening to my Axis VoiceBox S speakers powered by my Sansui au alpha 907mr.
> 
> ...




Hey Matt.....hope work is going well for you.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Hey Matt.....hope work is going well for you.



It's going very well Joe. I'm into fitness now. It's never too late ! 

Here's how it looks like on a sunny Winter's day in Canberra. That's my new horse.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> It's going very well Joe. I'm into fitness now. It's never too late !
> 
> Here's how it looks like on a sunny Winter's day in Canberra. That's my new horse.




Very nice. My kind of horse.

 After a recent trip to the Dr.  I decided to join my wife in her daily walks in the evening, pretty relaxing I guess and can't hurt me health wise I am sure.

I must admit though...it is not as fun as kicking back with one of Glenn's amps and throwing on some Robin Trower .


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> Ouch! Thank goodness it was the cheapo that bit the dust. Good practice.
> 
> Last week was a tough one for me. Lost two ECC35s and the tube that became my recent favorite the Fivre 12SL7. Two were my fault for not checking the voltage and one was the tube itself.




Sorry to hear....that is a real kick in the gut.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I must admit though...it is not as fun as kicking back with one of Glenn's amps and throwing on some Robin Trower .



Don't forget that glass of red wine.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow LCD-3f sounds amazing through the OTL amp. Amazing what a month's absence can do to rekindle your love for this sweet sweet sound and the bass in this instance.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> Wow LCD-3f sounds amazing through the OTL amp. Amazing what a month's absence can do to rekindle your love for this sweet sweet sound and the bass in this instance.



Howdy Matt, glad you're doing well with work in Canberra.  Could never stand that place, but to each his own haha.  

Still waiting for Glenn to hit me up with a message saying my amp is built/otw .. in the meantime I have been enjoying the Sansui AU-7700 with speakers at desk & my B&W speaker set up in the living room.  Headphone usage has been mainly gaming at night lately lol.

best,
Ken Ji


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 2, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> I worn people about these tubes. Have a pair of 5998s and will never use them again they blew my HD-650s.
> Must be a design flaw tn this type of tube.  It would go unnoticed as a voltage regulator that it was made for.





whirlwind said:


> Great sounding tubes...no doubt...dynamics are killer.
> Don't plug any headphones in the amp for 10 minutes or so after start -up and always unplug them before powering down.
> Seems you are having much fun with the amp.
> 
> How is the sound compared to your BHC ?



Yes, I am going to be even more careful.  Here I thought I was using my throw-away headphones, well now I can throw them away.  I'll start using your 10 minute rule Joe if I am feeling dangerous and want to use the 421A, even with my tester phones.

I haven't compared the two amps directly yet, maybe I will today.  I will say just from memory, the Bottlehead Crackatwoa is still a great amplifier, and with some tube combinations in the GOTL, it can hang.  With others though, the GOTL takes the transparency and dynamics to a whole new level.  I am finding I really enjoy the 6BX7s with a pentode input, either C3g, EL32, or EL3N!


----------



## zach915m (Aug 2, 2019)

m17xr2b said:


> The tubes could have been better, the Mullard is not a particular spectacular example, on the warm side and lacks full air.



Are the amperex 6080's I had made by mullard?  I'm not as versed in tube history as I wish I was.  I like them because they are dead quiet and matched.  I was the victim of some nice but unmatched ebay tubes.

The other tubes I had was an RCA 6f8g round plate with smoked glass and the sittard GZ 34 rectifier with the X code, I believe it's a 58. Should be same internals as the metal based versions but I don't like traveling with my metal base.

I've lost (broken) a number of tubes traveling that I get a little shy moving around with my best stuff.

Unfortunately at shows I'm so inundated talking and explaining everything to everyone I never am able to swap tubes in and out.  I wish I could give a full demonstration with different sets of tubes to show how the Glenn just shows you the tube you have rolled so accurately.  

Maybe for RMAF I'll post what I want to tube roll here so you guys can tell me what you think!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I thought I had weaned myself from posting.... until I got a PM from @Gkar asking me how's my Glenn 300b amp. Well Gkar I don't have a Glenn 300b amp and I haven't even powered on the GOTL for a month !
> 
> That is very rare... not using my GOTL for so long. I was just listening to my Axis VoiceBox S speakers powered by my Sansui au alpha 907mr.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Matt!  Yes, I did go for Wazzupi's GOTL.  I was in the queue, but lucky for me, I had made my build a bit complicated so my down payment was delayed, so it was no issue.  I may or may not have asked Glenn to keep my place in the queue though for a different amp  can't just step out of line!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 2, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Here was a quote from user @Taisser Roots after a brief try of a Glenn OTL amp at London CanJam last weekend. I'm not sure how much burn in the amp had, which tubes were in use or other customization options the amp had, but it makes me wonder what the $1700 IHA1 tube amp that appears a bit smaller may have against the Glenn amp.
> 
> _"Glenn otl
> no proper reference here
> ...



I haven't been to a Canjam myself, but I always read people saying they have a very hard time evaluating gear and headphones given it is a loud, crowded environment and many headphones are open back.  Taisser Roots must have excellent hearing to come to such a definitive conclusion on the IHA-1 and GOTL with a passing listen in such a place


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Howdy Matt, glad you're doing well with work in Canberra.  Could never stand that place, but to each his own haha.
> 
> Still waiting for Glenn to hit me up with a message saying my amp is built/otw .. in the meantime I have been enjoying the Sansui AU-7700 with speakers at desk & my B&W speaker set up in the living room.  Headphone usage has been mainly gaming at night lately lol.
> 
> ...



Fresh air, no crowds and no traffic jams. There's lots to love about Canberra. 

I wonder whose amp is being built now.

I'm eyeing your ZMF Verite Pheasantwood with the brass or gold trimmings. I wonder if Zach still produce that.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks, Matt!  Yes, I did go for Wazzupi's GOTL.  I was in the queue, but lucky for me, I had made my build a bit complicated so my down payment was delayed, so it was no issue.  I may or may not have asked Glenn to keep my place in the queue though for a different amp  can't just step out of line!



Seems like you're not plague by the channel imbalance which wazzupi often talk about. The amp must love your home.


----------



## UntilThen

zach915m said:


> Maybe for RMAF I'll post what I want to tube roll here so you guys can tell me what you think!



Zach, I'm a fan of using 6 x 6bx7gt power tubes. Pair that with a Sylvania 6sn7w metal base or a Mullard ECC35 and you're set ! 

Oh you your amp use a tube rectifier. The gz34 will do. That should be dynamic, sparkling with lots of drive.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Seems like you're not plague by the channel imbalance which wazzupi often talk about. The amp must love your home.



It is the clean Ohio power.  I think Wazzupi was having issues with his 6BX7s actually.  I have a couple different six-packs on hand myself, no issues so far, just great music.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> It is the clean Ohio power.  I think Wazzupi was having issues with his 6BX7s actually.  I have a couple different six-packs on hand myself, no issues so far, just great music.



Ohio power haha. Wait till you see the power here. We have wind turbines. 

If you have a sextet of well behaved 6bx7 or 6BL7, the GOTL sounds phenomenal .... at least to my ears.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am finding I really enjoy the 6BX7s with a pentode input, either C3g, EL32, or EL3N!



I'll roll in the c3g(s) next but I left my EL32, EL3N and EL11 in Sydney. Must remember to get them on the next trip.

I agree the pentodes as strapped triodes sounds great with 6bx7s.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I'll roll in the c3g(s) next but I left my EL32, EL3N and EL11 in Sydney. Must remember to get them on the next trip.
> 
> I agree the pentodes as strapped triodes sounds great with 6bx7s.



I was inspired by you and Glenn talking up the EL32 and had Deyan fashion me some adapters.  I had some noise issues at first, but Deoxit seems to have tamed them for now.  Really great sounding tubes, can't beat the price at $5 USD a pop.  I have the shouldered and straight.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I was inspired by you and Glenn talking up the EL32 and had Deyan fashion me some adapters.  I had some noise issues at first, but Deoxit seems to have tamed them for now.  Really great sounding tubes, can't beat the price at $5 USD a pop.  I have the shouldered and straight.



Looking good !!!

I bought a pair of the same EL32. Mullard with smoke glass. Mine cost $30 a pair though. I did not even open the parcel.

This is a picture taken from the seller's ebay listing.


----------



## UntilThen

Siemens c3g(s) with 6bx7gt. These are the tubes I first heard the GOTL on back in Dec 2017. The dynamics are out of this world. It's a dynamite. Explosive.


----------



## 2359glenn

zach915m said:


> Are the amperex 6080's I had made by mullard?  I'm not as versed in tube history as I wish I was.  I like them because they are dead quiet and matched.  I was the victim of some nice but unmatched ebay tubes.
> 
> The other tubes I had was an RCA 6f8g round plate with smoked glass and the sittard GZ 34 rectifier with the X code, I believe it's a 58. Should be same internals as the metal based versions but I don't like traveling with my metal base.
> 
> ...



Try to get some GEC 6AS7s or GEC 6080s   Always quiet and sound great with all your headphones!!!!
Abet pricy but I think worth it GEC 6AS7s is all I use never take them out.


----------



## zach915m (Aug 2, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Try to get some GEC 6AS7s or GEC 6080s   Always quiet and sound great with all your headphones!!!!
> Abet pricy but I think worth it GEC 6AS7s is all I use never take them out.



Alrighty I'm on the hunt.  

PS - if anyone has a good source send me a PM.  =)


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Siemens c3g(s) with 6bx7gt. These are the tubes I first heard the GOTL on back in Dec 2017. The dynamics are out of this world. It's a dynamite. Explosive.



As I was tube rolling the first day, this combo really floored me, those C3g tubes are no joke!  Very transparent with great dynamics from the 6BX7s.


----------



## Monsterzero

zach915m said:


> Alrighty I'm on the hunt.
> 
> PS - if anyone has a good source send me a PM.  =)



I can confirm,the GEC 6AS7 sound very nice,but theyre not cheap. Perhaps hit up @rosgr63 . He might have some,or know where to find them.

@UntilThen was wondering where youve been. Good to see you back here.


----------



## rosgr63

Monsterzero said:


> Sorry for going off topic (again) but the Lampizat0r has landed! Having this in my home and not being able to use it for two weeks is gonna drive me insane.



Beautiful, enjoy it!!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

New tube tester headphones, hopefully they don't suffer the same fate as their predecessors.  Happen to sound pretty darn good in their own right for $20.


----------



## Deyan

Something came to my mind. Probably most of you already guessed I'm using bases from locktal tubes for the C3g adapters. So the question question is does anyone have some spent C3g tubes. I have 2 tubes but they are already meant for a very special pair of EL3 to C3g adapters.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I worn people about these tubes. Have a pair of 5998s and will never use them again they blew my HD-650s.
> Must be a design flaw tn this type of tube.  It would go unnoticed as a voltage regulator that it was made for.



Wait, so you've had both your HD650 and your Grados blown up by 5998s now?  I was only aware of the Grados getting toasted.

It's really such a shame these tubes are like this.  They sound so good when fed properly.


----------



## Xcalibur255

DecentLevi said:


> Here was a quote from user @Taisser Roots after a brief try of a Glenn OTL amp at London CanJam last weekend. I'm not sure how much burn in the amp had, which tubes were in use or other customization options the amp had, but it makes me wonder what the $1700 IHA1 tube amp that appears a bit smaller may have against the Glenn amp.
> 
> _"Glenn otl
> no proper reference here
> ...



I'm probably one of the very few people in the world who own both a Glenn OTL and an Inspire IHA-1 so I have a bit of insight here.  These two amps sound different enough that I honestly don't think it makes a lot of sense to directly compare them to each other.  Also, it cannot be said enough that Glenn's amp is VERY flexible and changes character a lot depending on the tubes used.  The IHA-1, on the other hand, has a more consistent sonic character that changes less with tube rolling.

You can put a different set of tubes in the Glenn and and re-do this comparison and it would be like comparing a completely new amplifier.  Comparing the IHA-1 to my Glenn 45 DHT makes more sense in my mind than trying to compare it to the OTL.  The 45 and the IHA-1 share a lot more qualities since both are transformer coupled.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I can confirm,the GEC 6AS7 sound very nice,but theyre not cheap. Perhaps hit up @rosgr63 . He might have some,or know where to find them.
> 
> @UntilThen was wondering where youve been. Good to see you back here.



I took a sabbatical from Head-Fi and would have been away still had Gkar not pm me. 

GEC 6as7g are way too expensive now, regardless of the holy grail tag. WE 421A are equally as expensive.

That pair of GEC 6as7g which I sold to you for $500 I thought was outrageously expensive but this one tube alone, the seller is asking for $419.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-6AS7G-...rentrq:537f9f3616c0acc41dbb015cffe9f789|iid:1

Fortunately for me I'm very happy using my 6bx7gt. I'm not even using my GEC 6080, Bendix 6080wb and Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## 2359glenn

Deyan said:


> Something came to my mind. Probably most of you already guessed I'm using bases from locktal tubes for the C3g adapters. So the question question is does anyone have some spent C3g tubes. I have 2 tubes but they are already meant for a very special pair of EL3 to C3g adapters.



You can get Loktal tubes fron this guy for $1 each but you have to buy 10.
Tube numbers like 7A5 , 7E6 , 7E7.
Don't know what the shipping is to Bulgaria but I am sure his shipping will be cheaper then if I sent them to you.


----------



## Deyan

2359glenn said:


> You can get Loktal tubes fron this guy for $1 each but you have to buy 10.
> Tube numbers like 7A5 , 7E6 , 7E7.
> Don't know what the shipping is to Bulgaria but I am sure his shipping will be cheaper then if I sent them to you.



Yes but C3g has gold plated pins. Otherwise I'm still managing to find defective locktal tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I took a sabbatical from Head-Fi and would have been away still had Gkar not pm me.
> 
> GEC 6as7g are way too expensive now, regardless of the holy grail tag. WE 421A are equally as expensive.
> 
> ...



Wow I bought my pair for that price a few months ago.

I will be shipping @Gkar a OTL next week that is why he is asking you questions.
I think you told him to buy it thanks!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Deyan said:


> Yes but C3g has gold plated pins. Otherwise I'm still managing to find defective locktal tubes.



I have many new useless Loktal tubes but no bad C3g.


----------



## Deyan

The thing is they never where used here en mass


----------



## 2359glenn

Deyan said:


> The thing is they never where used here en mass



They were in the USA and Russia used quite a few.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Wow I bought my pair for that price a few months ago.
> 
> I will be shipping @Gkar a OTL next week that is why he is asking you questions.
> I think you told him to buy it thanks!!!!!



My pleasure Glenn. I have many people asking me about the OTL amp and I told them, 'Just get it' ! but the queue is several continents away now. 

Gkar had no idea he's getting his amp next week so he'll be over the moon.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> My pleasure Glenn. I have many people asking me about the OTL amp and I told them, 'Just get it' ! but the queue is several continents away now.
> 
> Gkar had no idea he's getting his amp next week so he'll be over the moon.



He knows. He is going on holiday now like everyone else in Germany it is August Holiday in Europe July in US.
I know you are in the middle of winter now.


----------



## Deyan

2359glenn said:


> They were in the USA and Russia used quite a few.



I'm not sure about Russia. At my day job I'm a technician at russian SAM site and they don't really like using import parts ( copied yes but no imports )


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> He knows. He is going on holiday now like everyone else in Germany it is August Holiday in Europe July in US.
> I know you are in the middle of winter now.



I'm right smack in Winter now and I could do with more tube amp warmth. But then zero degrees is probably nothing to you but it's really cold for me.


----------



## UntilThen

Deyan said:


> Something came to my mind. Probably most of you already guessed I'm using bases from locktal tubes for the C3g adapters. So the question question is does anyone have some spent C3g tubes. I have 2 tubes but they are already meant for a very special pair of EL3 to C3g adapters.



I was going to ask you to make me a pair of EL32 to c3g adapters. Looks like you're out of c3g loctal base.

I'll have to use one of my noisy pair.


----------



## Deyan

UntilThen said:


> I was going to ask you to make me a pair of EL32 to c3g adapters. Looks like you're out of c3g loctal base.
> 
> I'll have to use one of my noisy pair.



No I'm NOT. I wanted to try out some gold plated ones.


----------



## UntilThen

Deyan said:


> No I'm NOT. I wanted to try out some gold plated ones.



Ah I see  I'll pm you to make a pair of EL32 to c3g adapters then.


----------



## Deyan

@UntilThen just say the word and I'll make them.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> As I was tube rolling the first day, this combo really floored me, those C3g tubes are no joke!  Very transparent with great dynamics from the 6BX7s.



It's 5:30am and I'm still using the c3gs and 6bx7s. This is an obsession.


----------



## UntilThen

Deyan said:


> @UntilThen just say the word and I'll make them.



Yeah you got a pm. Thanks.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 2, 2019)

Just did a not-too-involved shootout between my old amp, the Bottlehead Crackatwoa (w/ some parts upgrades) and the GOTL.  It has only been three days, but I work this weekend, so better to do it now.




The Crackatwoa is a 12AU7/6SN7 input and 6AS7 cathode follower output OTL with solid state constant current sources.  Also has a 6AQ5 shunt-regulated power supply.

The best I think I have heard the Crackatwoa is with the Mullard ECC32 input and Tung Sol 5998/421A output, so I put the same in the GOTL, split my DAC outputs, and away we went!

Right off the bat, with no music playing, the GOTL has a lower noise floor.  That is one thing that has really pleased me: with quiet tubes, the GOTL itself is a very quiet amplifier.  Nice.

A-B comparisons show the GOTL does have strengths over the Crackatwoa even while using the same tubes.  More airiness and larger, more expansive soundstage, better bass definition, and better dynamics with a slightly faster attack.  That isn't to say the Crackatwoa is extremely weak in these departments, just that the GOTL excels over it.

Then went to compare both at what I think is close to full strength (or at least for the GOTL, a different strength).  Same tubes in the Crackatwoa, then changed the GOTL to Siemens C3g inputs and six Tung Sol 6BX7 outputs.  Harder comparison, since the GOTL sounds like a different amplifier!  Which, I think can be stated, is one of its strengths.  Different experience with the C3g and 6BX7, altogether very transparent and dynamic, a more lively presentation than the ECC32/5998 loadout, but again showing its higher detail-retrieval and punchiness over the Crackatwoa.

The Crackatwoa is a great amp, I've enjoyed it and plan to retire it to live with my stereo and turntable.  It has a lot of sentimental value for me, my blood sweat and tears went into building that amp.

But the GOTL is exceptional, truly a Swiss Army knife that is several different amps in one, each with its own strengths, all while maintaining a punchy, resolving, and overall pleasurable listening experience.


----------



## Deyan

UntilThen said:


> Yeah you got a pm. Thanks.


And you have an answer.


----------



## whirlwind

zach915m said:


> Are the amperex 6080's I had made by mullard?  I'm not as versed in tube history as I wish I was.  I like them because they are dead quiet and matched.  I was the victim of some nice but unmatched ebay tubes.
> 
> The other tubes I had was an RCA 6f8g round plate with smoked glass and the sittard GZ 34 rectifier with the X code, I believe it's a 58. Should be same internals as the metal based versions but I don't like traveling with my metal base.
> 
> ...




I  do not blame you a bit for not wanting to take your best tubes on the road traveling.....the amp sounds very good with tubes that don't cost an arm and a leg.
If you take the best of tubes, pack them really well....like Glenn packs his amps.

Still saving money for my next ZMF headphone...I must say, that burl wood is stunning!


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> As I was tube rolling the first day, this combo really floored me, those C3g tubes are no joke!  Very transparent with great dynamics from the 6BX7s.



To my ears nothing matches the C3g for transparency...they also make any power tube sound good!


----------



## whirlwind

Deyan said:


> Something came to my mind. Probably most of you already guessed I'm using bases from locktal tubes for the C3g adapters. So the question question is does anyone have some spent C3g tubes. I have 2 tubes but they are already meant for a very special pair of EL3 to C3g adapters.



I have one.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> To my ears nothing matches the C3g for transparency...they also make any power tube sound good!



Have you tried EL8s?


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 2, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Have you tried EL8s?




Only in the GEL3N amp

In that amp, they lack way behind the EL3N tubes.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Fortunately for me I'm very happy using my 6bx7gt. I'm not even using my GEC 6080, Bendix 6080wb and Tung Sol 5998.



Likewise, I have all these and more, and you can count me as one of those who prefers the 6BX7GT to any 6AS7G or derivative.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Likewise, I have all these and more, and you can count me as one of those who prefers the 6BX7GT to any 6AS7G or derivative.



My ears aren't deceiving me then. These sextet 6bx7gt are one of a kind tone and I've forgotten how good they sound with a Mullard ECC35. Priceless.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Have you tried EL8s?


I have used the EL8 extensively in the GOTL. On their own just nice, but in combination with a third driver they add body and fullness to the sound.
Hard to find them, but if interested PM me.I have a German source for $26 shipped for a NOS pair.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> I have used the EL8 extensively in the GOTL. On their own just nice, but in combination with a third driver they add body and fullness to the sound.
> Hard to find them, but if interested PM me.I have a German source for $26 shipped for a NOS pair.



I have a pair,and really like them,and you're correct,theyre great in the triple driver configuration....Speaking of which, where has @JazzVinyl been?


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Still saving money for my next ZMF headphone...I must say, that burl wood is stunning!



I should have stayed away from Head-Fi. Now I'm thinking of buying a Verite. What burl wood are you talking about? Any picture of it?


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I should have stayed away from Head-Fi. Now I'm thinking of buying a Verite. What burl wood are you talking about? Any picture of it?



I think theres a recent pic of a Burl ZMF in the Atticus/Eikon thread. Its probably the most striking headphone Ive ever seen. Havent seen a Verite in Burl,though,with the new Verite closed coming out,that might be the ticket.
Zach said it has slightly more 3D imaging and a tad brighter than the open Verite. I cant wait to hear it.


----------



## UntilThen

mixman said:


> Sorry to crash the thread, but since there isn’t much info on these and to not have to read through 1,800 pages......what do these generally go for price wise ? Also, while I have a few high ohm dynamics...Verite, HD600,HD650......most of my other cans are low ohm planars. Would I be able to use this with them also?



This is where I come in. Just buy it. 

The OTL amp is insanely good value for the sonics it can deliver with a multitude of tubes. It's much cheaper than a Woo Wa22 and a Feliks Euphoria both of which I've heard and the Glenn OTL amp is the one I'd recommend definitely of the 3.

With your Verite, HD600, HD650, it would be where the OTL shines but I happen to like what I hear it driving the LCD-2 and 3. I currently have the LCD-3f and it's a beautiful tone driven by the OTL. Certainly not lacking in drive with the planars. It's right at home there.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I think theres a recent pic of a Burl ZMF in the Atticus/Eikon thread. Its probably the most striking headphone Ive ever seen. Havent seen a Verite in Burl,though,with the new Verite closed coming out,that might be the ticket.
> Zach said it has slightly more 3D imaging and a tad brighter than the open Verite. I cant wait to hear it.



I'm not sure I wanted a closed headphone. I've no one to disturb here. 

So I rather go with an open headphone for the increased soundstage like the Verite.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I think theres a recent pic of a Burl ZMF in the Atticus/Eikon thread. Its probably the most striking headphone Ive ever seen. Havent seen a Verite in Burl,though,with the new Verite closed coming out,that might be the ticket.
> Zach said it has slightly more 3D imaging and a tad brighter than the open Verite. I cant wait to hear it.



I saw the Burl wood in the Atticus/Eikon thread. Not what I'm looking for. It's too light colour. 

I want a dark wood like @UsoppNoKami 's Pheasant wood LTD.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I'm not sure I wanted a closed headphone. I've no one to disturb here.
> 
> So I rather go with an open headphone for the increased soundstage like the Verite.



I have no need for a closed back either,but if I am gonna be picky,the one thing I would change about the Verite is to make it slightly brighter.
The strongest part of the Verite,to me,is the 3D imaging.
The closed,according to Zach addresses its only perceived fault,and strengthens its strong suit. Sounds like a winner to me.



UntilThen said:


> I saw the Burl wood in the Atticus/Eikon thread. Not what I'm looking for. It's too light colour.
> 
> I want a dark wood like @UsoppNoKami 's Pheasant wood LTD.



I have the Pheasantwood too. Its lovely,but that burl......


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I saw the Burl wood in the Atticus/Eikon thread. Not what I'm looking for. It's too light colour.



This is too light colored for you?!?


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> This is too light colored for you?!?



What you show there is much darker but it looks like drift wood washed ashore with Robinson Crusoe on that island. 

I was looking at this lighter version. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/att...phones-from-zmf.821782/page-485#post-15099681


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> What you show there is much darker but it looks like drift wood washed ashore with Robinson Crusoe on that island.
> 
> I was looking at this lighter version. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/att...phones-from-zmf.821782/page-485#post-15099681



Yeah,as soon as you said it was too light I knew you were referencing the pair that was posted today.
Did you know that burl is wood that has a cancer-like growth on it? Sad, but to me its beautiful.


----------



## UntilThen

I can't believe a month away has made me hear the GOTL in a new way. I can't remember the ECC31 with 6bx7s sounding so creamy and lush and yet detailed. 

I can't see the need to get a ECC32 until someone can tell me that the ECC32 is a marked upgrade on the ECC31.


----------



## attmci

My guess, looking for a better DAC is the next step.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> My guess, looking for a better DAC is the next step.



He strikes again!  I need to finish graduate school before making any other large purchases.

Tubes are not large purchases though, and neither are tube testers.....


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> He strikes again!  I need to finish graduate school before making any other large purchases.
> 
> Tubes are not large purchases though, and neither are tube testers.....



Yup take your time on the audio journey. There's no end game. Just build around the OTL amp. It's the cornerstone !


----------



## DecentLevi

Thanks folks for your recent feedback about the GOTL vs. the IHA1. I wasn't necessarily expecting the latter to be better, just curious. The comparison wasn't even direct on his part, and it seems that amp may not even be in production anymore.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 3, 2019)

BREAKTHROUGH ANNOUNCEMENT:

In case some of you missed the recent and increasing excitement about this headphone, let me briefly introduce you to the HEDDphone One from German speaker company Heinz Electrodynamic Designs.

From the seminar description that was given about it at CanJam London last month:
_"Transducer technologies in speakers and headphones are either electrodynamic systems, coming in the voice coil, planar or pure ribbon flavor, and electrostatic devices, all existing in both product categories. In the last decades the Air Motion Transformer, originally invented by the German physicist Oskar Heil, took a different approach. It found its way in a compact form into new tweeter designs based on the original work of the author. By introducing VVT® or Variable Velocity Transform, the original AMT concept is expanded by replacing the fixed geometric structure of conventional AMT drivers by folds that vary both in width and depth, thus varying the AMT specific velocity transform over the frequency range. Dr. Frederik Knop from HEDD presents the technology behind the HEDDphone ONE, the first full range headphone based on the Air Motion Transformer principle."_

As you can see, this is a truly unique headphone and the first of its' kind to implement this technology into a headphone. To me it sounded perhaps like the best hybrid between perhaps the HE-6 and the Orpheus 2, with both the planar bass and the electrostat speed / transparency - but being neither, a new AMT electrodynamic driver which is said to be even much faster than electrostatic technology. I tried it at CanJam SoCal 2019 and it's a sound I can't soon forget and will always aspire to have one day...




photo thanks to @AndrewH13

My review was *here* and you can see the recent CanJam London impression thread lit up about it as well, even vs. some new $25k e-stats.

Planning to still get a GOTL when funds permit and definitely on board for this new giant-killer of a headphone, it's been my sincere hope that it will synergize well with a GOTL. So @2359glenn and anyone else here that cares to shed their expertise, what would you say about the HEDDphone being driven well by a GOTL? (hoping to have both synergy and good gain level). Here's the specs:
   "38 ohms and 90 dB SPL for 1 mW"

@whirlwind told me that using the 6336 tubes would supply more current, and somehow I've a feeling that a GOTL with the HEDDphone One would pair quite well! Moreover there's already a general consensus from those who have tried this headphone on both SS and tube amps that these sing best with tube amps. And from my Euforia amp (along with unique multi-tube combos) I already have a pristine pair of 6336 in storage, along with a huge arsenal of to flight tubes such as 2x GEC 6AS7G, 6x EL32, 6x EL38, 2x EL39, 6x 6BL7, 6SN7, 6N7, 7N7, 5998, 6080, 9-pin octals, etc., etc.

The crew at HEDD Audio are still making last minute adjustments and it's slain to be released sometime in October for around $1,700 which is an insanely good cost / performance. Anyone interested feel free to sub to the HEDDphone thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hedd-announces-heddphone-with-amt-technology.906270


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Howdy Matt, glad you're doing well with work in Canberra.  Could never stand that place, but to each his own haha.
> 
> Still waiting for Glenn to hit me up with a message saying my amp is built/otw .. in the meantime I have been enjoying the Sansui AU-7700 with speakers at desk & my B&W speaker set up in the living room.  Headphone usage has been mainly gaming at night lately lol.
> 
> ...



I blame you Ken Ji. Now I want to get a Verite in exotic wood.


----------



## nishan99 (Aug 3, 2019)

Hello
I did my research and I did not find much, are there a comparisons between the GOTL and the GEL3N?

I know they have different designs but I am still curious!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 3, 2019)

nishan99 said:


> Hello
> I did my research and I did not find much, arr there a comparisons between the GOTL and the GEL3N?
> 
> I know they have different designs but I am still curious!



@whirlwind is a good man to ask!  I'm sure he has to have talked about it somewhere in the thread. If you didn't know, the largest difference is the GEL3N is transformer coupled while the GOTL is not.  The GEL3N uses four EL3N tubes and there are not many tube rolling options (EL8, EL11 with adapter).  The input and output tubes are out of phase so their distortion products cancel.  It also comes with a "single tube" switch that uses only one tube for amplification (rather than both), I can't comment on how it affects the sound, but owners seem to find it more "clean".  The GEL3N is more expensive given that it requires three Lundahl transformers to build ($$$).  Glenn says it can also be used to drive sensitive speakers.

That's everything I know about it.  I've kept my place is the queue in hopes of getting one someday  one must always be planning for the future.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I should have stayed away from Head-Fi. Now I'm thinking of buying a Verite. What burl wood are you talking about? Any picture of it?



Yeah, I hear you.  Head-fi is a great place...great people...great gear...not so great for the wallet.
Congrats to you on the Verite.  Now to decide on open, closed and what wood.
I have never heard one, but I have liked every single headphone that I have heard from ZMF
Good times ahead for you.


----------



## whirlwind

nishan99 said:


> Hello
> I did my research and I did not find much, are there a comparisons between the GOTL and the GEL3N?
> 
> I know they have different designs but I am still curious!




Hi nishan99.

Glenn could tell you all of the spec details about the differences.

If you want to roll a lot of tubes definitely GOTL is the way to go....if you buy all of the best tubes you will be spending a bunch of extra cash...probably more than the amp cost  

If you do not want to tube roll then opt for the GEL3N

Both amps will drive most headphones with no problem.

Personally I use the GOTL  for high impedance cans ....great for HD800.....ZMF dynamics

I prefer the GEL3N  & GS-X mk2 for my planars   YMMV

At times I will run the GEL3N in one tube mode and use GS-X mk2 as pre-amp.

Both are wonderful and produce much punch and perform above their price point....can't really make a bad decision.


----------



## nishan99

whirlwind said:


> Hi nishan99.
> 
> Glenn could tell you all of the spec details about the differences.
> 
> ...



When it comes to soundstage and imaging which one is the better option?  I got the feeling of GEL3N being more like solid state flavored in its imaging presentation.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 3, 2019)

nishan99 said:


> When it comes to soundstage and imaging which one is the better option?  I got the feeling of GEL3N being more like solid state flavored in its imaging presentation.



Some may say that the GEL3N does sound more towards the SS side of things....I do not see it that way really for instance it does not sound like my GS-X mk2
The GOTL will change a little depending on the tubes.  The GEL3N has a wonderful bass slam and punch that creates a depth to the sound stage that is just wonderful to my ears, I will call it super texture in it's bass presentation
and it is very addicting to my ears.

You may be able to get this through the GOTL with six power tubes. It has been a long time since I heard the 6BX/6BL7 so I can't commit on if it is close to GEL3N bass texture and depth as I do not have any adapters any more for my GOTL.

I will say that you will need  near the best tubes in the GOTL to get near the dynamics of the GEL3N,

As always the headphones and even more importantly the dac is really going to come into play here....just like good headphones scale well with good amps...good amps scale well with a nice dac.

I can not imagine not being able to find a sound that you do not love with all of the options the GOTL has to offer....you just have to be willing to buy the tubes.

For what it is worth...for the most part I like a warmer and more musical sound than a very over the top detailed sound. Most of my gear is tilted towards this side.

For instance the GS-X mk2 is pretty damn neutral amp....so you feel like you are listening to your source and I  find the Spring to be warm, musical and not in any way thin sounding....it makes the GSX-mk2 sound very relaxed in the treble region for a SS amp when many say the amp is bright sounding.  It can sound bright, but I feel that is the recording and I find most digital music made today all sound too bright...so I favor the warmer gear and headphones.

Sort of like with tubes...when using a bright power tube you may want to use a darker driver tube.
It really is about the whole chain. The chain is as good as the weakest link.

The very first thing I noticed when I first heard Glenn's amps was the authority of the amps...they take control of the headphones with  ease and not breaking a sweat


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Some may say that the GEL3N does sound more towards the SS side of things....I do not see it that way really for instance it does not sound like my GS-X mk2
> The GOTL will change a little depending on the tubes.  The GEL3N has a wonderful bass slam and punch that creates a depth to the sound stage that is just wonderful to my ears, I will call it super texture in it's bass presentation
> and it is very addicting to my ears.
> 
> ...



I am going to build a EL3N amp with octal sockets so it can use EL34 6V6 6K6 6L6 5881 and with a adapter EL3N EL8 and many others.
I do think the driver should be a EL3N or for a brighter presentation a EL8. Also can make it use a 6SN7 or two L63/6J5 for drivers.
Makes it as versatile as the OTL with tube rolling.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I am going to build a EL3N amp with octal sockets so it can use EL34 6V6 6K6 6L6 5881 and with a adapter EL3N EL8 and many others.
> I do think the driver should be a EL3N or for a brighter presentation a EL8. Also can make it use a 6SN7 or two L63/6J5 for drivers.
> Makes it as versatile as the OTL with tube rolling.



Oh man...this amp should be your best amp yet....other than 300B
Really excited to see this amp.

The only knock on the EL3N tube that I see is the side contacts.....other than that the tubes sounds better than many $200 tubes to my ears
I am addicted to the bass from it.

This will be transformer coupled....correct?


----------



## Deyan

whirlwind said:


> Oh man...this amp should be your best amp yet....other than 300B
> Really excited to see this amp.
> 
> The only knock on the EL3N tube that I see is the side contacts.....other than that the tubes sounds better than many $200 tubes to my ears
> ...



I have a bunch of sidecontact bases but no one asked for such an adapter.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Oh man...this amp should be your best amp yet....other than 300B
> Really excited to see this amp.
> 
> The only knock on the EL3N tube that I see is the side contacts.....other than that the tubes sounds better than many $200 tubes to my ears
> ...



Yes the same as the EL3N
You can try some of these tubes Deyan has side contact bases and can make a side contact to octal adapter.
I would leane the EL3N as the driver.


----------



## attmci (Aug 3, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> I am going to build a EL3N amp with octal sockets so it can use EL34 6V6 6K6 6L6 5881 and with a adapter EL3N EL8 and many others.
> I do think the driver should be a EL3N or for a brighter presentation a EL8. Also can make it use a 6SN7 or two L63/6J5 for drivers.
> Makes it as versatile as the OTL with tube rolling.


You may want to give it a new name. At least GEL34........

How about the other power tubes?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> I blame you Ken Ji. Now I want to get a Verite in exotic wood.



Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo (repeat, Baby Shark)


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 3, 2019)

The EL34 may be interesting as powers.

The EL8 did not do it for me as drivers in the GEL3N amp.

I will think about this and let you know @Deyan


----------



## Deyan

whirlwind said:


> The EL34 may be interesting as powers.
> 
> The EL8 did not do it for me as drivers in the GEL3N amp.
> 
> I will think about this and let you know @Deyan



As always you know how to find me.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> The EL34 may be interesting as powers.
> 
> The EL8 did not do it for me as drivers in the GEL3N amp.
> 
> I will think about this and let you know @Deyan



The 6K6 is also a real pentode not a beam pentode like the 6V6 and 6L6.
But all these tubes are wired the same and can use the same adapter.


----------



## whirlwind

Deyan said:


> As always you know how to find me.



Yes I do!

The adapters should look pretty good as the sockets are sunk down in the chassis of the GEL3N amp.

My only thing is that with these funny side contacts.....you don't want to be popping the tubes in and out any more than you have to.

Once you get the amp nice and quiet...maybe best to leave it alone


----------



## Deyan

I should have some prototypes at home. When inserted they make the amp look like it has octal sockets to begin with.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The 6K6 is also a real pentode not a beam pentode like the 6V6 and 6L6.
> But all these tubes are wired the same and can use the same adapter.




So EL34 and the 6K6 could be interesting.

One thing about the power tubes in this amp, they do not add anything to the noise floor.


----------



## whirlwind

Deyan said:


> I should have some prototypes at home. When inserted they make the amp look like it has octal sockets to begin with.



Very nice Deyan.

PM incoming


----------



## Deyan

Ok.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I am going to build a EL3N amp with octal sockets so it can use EL34 6V6 6K6 6L6 5881 and with a adapter EL3N EL8 and many others.
> I do think the driver should be a EL3N or for a brighter presentation a EL8. Also can make it use a 6SN7 or two L63/6J5 for drivers.
> Makes it as versatile as the OTL with tube rolling.



Glenn, you woke me up from my sleep with this statement. What position am I in the queue?


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo (repeat, Baby Shark)



I'm even more wide awake with this baby shark circling me.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> So EL34 and the 6K6 could be interesting.
> 
> One thing about the power tubes in this amp, they do not add anything to the noise floor.


That is according to each tube some are noisy some not. Tubes like 6K6 can be very cheep 6K6GT $4 at ESRC


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn, you woke me up from my sleep with this statement. What position am I in the queue?



You are about a month out.
Are you going to want it with octal sockets?


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> You may want to give it a new name.



We could call it rick roll?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> That is according to each tube some are noisy some not. Tubes like 6K6 can be very cheep 6K6GT $4 at ESRC




I could try those and if I liked them could spring for some XF2 Mullards

I have had noisy EL3N tubes in driver stage...when I put them as powers there was no noise...maybe just my imagination.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You are about a month out.
> Are you going to want it with octal sockets?



Jebus one month out? I thought I was a year out. 

I don't know what I want now. Octal sounds good. 

6k6 is small in size like a 6sn7


----------



## rnros

Deyan said:


> I have a bunch of sidecontact bases but no one asked for such an adapter.



I will be asking... Have a GEL3N coming soon.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> I am going to build a EL3N amp with octal sockets so it can use EL34 6V6 6K6 6L6 5881 and with a adapter EL3N EL8 and many others.
> I do think the driver should be a EL3N or for a brighter presentation a EL8. Also can make it use a 6SN7 or two L63/6J5 for drivers.
> Makes it as versatile as the OTL with tube rolling.



Think you will sell a lot of these tube rolling GOTC's!

But I'm still looking forward to the GEL3N. I actually like the Yamamoto socket. And did plan to try some rolling with adapters.


----------



## Deyan

rnros said:


> I will be asking... Have a GEL3N coming soon.


Ok I'll have it in mind. On a side note I still haven't received the sockets they are at the central post office for a week now.


----------



## rnros

Deyan said:


> Ok I'll have it in mind. On a side note I still haven't received the sockets they are at the central post office for a week now.



Yes, I saw that, first they took forever to leave the US, then they just sit in Bulgaria.
LOL And that was using Priority Mail!


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn using L63/6J5 as drivers sounds interesting. EL34 6V6 6K6 6L6 5881 as power tubes again very interesting. How many of these? 4 or 2?

I really have no clue how this will turn out. You're the designer. Let's see your proposal.


----------



## Deyan

rnros said:


> Yes, I saw that, first they took forever to leave the US, then they just sit in Bulgaria.
> LOL And that was using Priority Mail!



I work a few miles away from the airport. The thought of going there has crossed my mind more than a few times now.


----------



## rnros

Deyan said:


> I work a few miles away from the airport. The thought of going there has crossed my mind more than a few times now.



I know you like to get things done, but no rush on my part. 
I assumed the package had not been released yet... IDK, maybe part of a post office summer vacation slowdown?


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Glenn using L63/6J5 as drivers sounds interesting. EL34 6V6 6K6 6L6 5881 as power tubes again very interesting. How many of these? 4 or 2?
> 
> I really have no clue how this will turn out. You're the designer. Let's see your proposal.



Is that an official RFP? (Request for Proposal) Just kidding, sounds like your professional life taking over your hobby. 

Good to hear from you. Sounds like all is well.

Now, you know you have to have some version of a GOTC. 
And with the 300B tube money you save with a GEL34+, or a GEL3N, you can buy new pool furniture, BBQ/Smoker, single malt, Bordeaux futures...
Summer is coming your way.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> .if you buy all of the best tubes you will be spending a bunch of extra cash...probably *definitely* more than the amp cost



There,fixed that for you.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Is that an official RFP? (Request for Proposal) Just kidding, sounds like your professional life taking over your hobby.
> 
> Good to hear from you. Sounds like all is well.
> 
> ...



Well seems like the spending is starting again. I'm going to get the ZMF Verite first. It's supposed to have the dynamics and speed of the Utopia, the soundstage and details of the HD800 and the bass of the LCD-3. So I need to hear it for myself. 

I told Glenn to delay my order and process someone else first as I have to figure out what I want in my next amp. Maybe just keep it simple as in the GEL34+ or the GEL3N but I'll hear what Glenn has to propose first.

Meanwhile back to the c3g and 5998s combination. Always love this combination whenever I hear it.

I'll be following how your GEL3N amp turn out. Looking forward to your reports.


----------



## nishan99

whirlwind said:


> Some may say that the GEL3N does sound more towards the SS side of things....I do not see it that way really for instance it does not sound like my GS-X mk2
> The GOTL will change a little depending on the tubes.  The GEL3N has a wonderful bass slam and punch that creates a depth to the sound stage that is just wonderful to my ears, I will call it super texture in it's bass presentation
> and it is very addicting to my ears.
> 
> ...



thanks a lot! 
this is really helpful <3


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> I am going to build a EL3N amp with octal sockets so it can use EL34 6V6 6K6 6L6 5881 and with a adapter EL3N EL8 and many others.
> I do think the driver should be a EL3N or for a brighter presentation a EL8. Also can make it use a 6SN7 or two L63/6J5 for drivers.
> Makes it as versatile as the OTL with tube rolling.


Yep - that's going to be my amp. Going to go for two L63/6J5 for drivers.



whirlwind said:


> Oh man...this amp should be your best amp yet....other than 300B
> Really excited to see this amp.
> 
> The only knock on the EL3N tube that I see is the side contacts.....other than that the tubes sounds better than many $200 tubes to my ears
> ...


Yes transformer coupled. Single-ended.



Deyan said:


> I have a bunch of sidecontact bases but no one asked for such an adapter.


Yet...

I have lot's of tubes I can use with this amp. @Monsterzero these tubes can also be used with the TRP (which will be on my horizon in a year or two).


----------



## leftside

I have the 300B amp for the harder to drive planars. Can't think of a better amp for the LCD-3/4. The new amp will be for easier to drive headphones, with plenty of tube rolling options.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Well seems like the spending is starting again. I'm going to get the ZMF Verite first. It's supposed to have the dynamics and speed of the Utopia, the soundstage and details of the HD800 and the bass of the LCD-3. So I need to hear it for myself.



Its a pretty spectacular sounding headphone. From my personal perspective the Verite will be a bit of a challenge for you to dial in the sound you want out of it,especially if you prioritize the holographic staging,like I do.

If you recall several months back you noticed my tube rolls for the Verite were quite warm,which is counter-intuitive for a headphone that already leans to the warm side,some even call it dark.
I have found that the warmer the roll the deeper the staging goes on the Verite. TS 6SN7GT BGRP+ RCA 6080s is the deepest Ive gotten the Verite to sound,but its soooo much warmth.

Finding the happy medium is key,which is why the closed Verite sounds so promising.

YMMV


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Yep - that's going to be my amp. Going to go for two L63/6J5 for drivers.
> 
> 
> Yes transformer coupled. Single-ended.
> ...



Once my mancave construction is finished and I can set up my TRP,expect several 6V6 questions


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Yep - that's going to be my amp. Going to go for two L63/6J5 for drivers.



Gorgeous tubes you've there. I'll see how your amp turn out. The availability of GEC L63 is still good. As well as 6V6 tubes. Let's hope it stays that way.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Gorgeous tubes you've there. I'll see how your amp turn out. The availability of GEC L63 is still good. As well as 6V6 tubes. Let's hope it stays that way.


Yes lot's of 6L6 tubes as well. The photos don't show it, but the 6L6 are big tubes and the 6V6 are smaller. Plenty of articles out there on the differences between the two.

Also: 6F6, KT63, 6F6, 6K6, KT66, KT77, EL34, EL35, EL37

I would definitely have also considered the GOTL, but there is a local amp builder who is building me an amp that takes 6AS7/C3g/6SN7 and related tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Yes lot's of 6L6 tubes as well. The photos don't show it, but the 6L6 are big tubes and the 6V6 are smaller. Plenty of articles out there on the differences between the two.
> 
> Also: 6F6, KT63, 6F6, 6K6, KT66, KT77, EL34, EL35, EL37
> 
> I would definitely have also considered the GOTL, but there is a local amp builder who is building me an amp that takes 6AS7/C3g/6SN7 and related tubes.



So tell me more about this amp that Glenn is going to build for you. It's going to be able to use 6L6, 6V6 and optionally 6F6, KT63, 6F6, 6K6, KT66, KT77, EL34, EL35, EL37 as well? How many tubes will be used for power tubes?

Driver tubes will GEC L63 / 6J5. Strictly these or you have other options?

What kind of power output are we looking at?

Is this strictly a headphone amp? I don't need amps to drive speakers. I have enough amps for that.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> So tell me more about this amp that Glenn is going to build for you. It's going to be able to use 6L6, 6V6 and optionally 6F6, KT63, 6F6, 6K6, KT66, KT77, EL34, EL35, EL37 as well? How many tubes will be used for power tubes?
> 
> Driver tubes will GEC L63 / 6J5. Strictly these or you have other options?
> 
> ...


Yes it will be able to use all of those power tubes and all related. And also EL3N and related with an EL3N to EL34 adapter. I'm not sure if it's going to be 4 or 2 power tubes. Will check with Glenn.

Driver tubes will strictly be L63/6J5. But 6P5 and 6C5 can also be used, and probably some others. Glenn is leaning towards using EL3N as drivers, so this might change, but I have plenty of L63/6J5/6C5 that I'd like to use. I'll also go for tube rectification for this amp. 

Strictly a headphone amp.


----------



## UntilThen

That sounds very interesting. Transformer coupled using Lundahl no doubt? This is something that has piqued my interest. I will be watching closely as you progress in this greenfield project. Keep us updated here.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Its a pretty spectacular sounding headphone. From my personal perspective the Verite will be a bit of a challenge for you to dial in the sound you want out of it,especially if you prioritize the holographic staging,like I do.
> 
> If you recall several months back you noticed my tube rolls for the Verite were quite warm,which is counter-intuitive for a headphone that already leans to the warm side,some even call it dark.
> I have found that the warmer the roll the deeper the staging goes on the Verite. TS 6SN7GT BGRP+ RCA 6080s is the deepest Ive gotten the Verite to sound,but its soooo much warmth.
> ...



Thanks for this feedback Monster. I too read about the Verite having a tilt towards a warm tone and the suggestion that a silver cable would be best for it. I'll get the headphone first and assess it myself.


----------



## nishan99

Monsterzero said:


> Its a pretty spectacular sounding headphone. From my personal perspective the Verite will be a bit of a challenge for you to dial in the sound you want out of it,especially if you prioritize the holographic staging,like I do.
> 
> If you recall several months back you noticed my tube rolls for the Verite were quite warm,which is counter-intuitive for a headphone that already leans to the warm side,some even call it dark.
> I have found that the warmer the roll the deeper the staging goes on the Verite. TS 6SN7GT BGRP+ RCA 6080s is the deepest Ive gotten the Verite to sound,but its soooo much warmth.
> ...



I remember one time Paul McGowan said in one of his videos he uses dual subwoofers with ANY speakers to enhance the soundstage, I always found it weird until recently.


----------



## rnros

leftside said:


> Yep - that's going to be my amp. Going to go for two L63/6J5 for drivers.
> 
> 
> Yes transformer coupled. Single-ended.
> ...



Should be a fantastic amp, the GEL34+, especially with that great collection of tubes. I'll be looking forward to your reviews of both the amp and the tubes. 
My GEL3N will also have tube rectification. Don't really know if the solid state rectification is 'better' in any way with Glenn's amps, just love the tube rectifiers in the GOTL.


----------



## DecentLevi

2359glenn said:


> I am going to build a EL3N amp with octal sockets so it can use EL34 6V6 6K6 6L6 5881 and with a adapter EL3N EL8 and many others.
> I do think the driver should be a EL3N or for a brighter presentation a EL8. Also can make it use a 6SN7 or two L63/6J5 for drivers.
> Makes it as versatile as the OTL with tube rolling.


Sounds like an amp with great potential! I'm also looking to make the most of my other current tubes, so will any of these work? 6SN7, 6N7, 7N7, 6AS7G, 6080, [with adapters: EL32, EL38, EL39, ECC88, E88CC, 6N23P, 12av7)?

Maybe it's good I'm waiting so long for a Glenn amp, so I can wait to see how a GOTL super compares to the new GEL3N or GEL34+ whichever the name be.


----------



## Deyan

New adapter day.
EL34 to EL3


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Thanks for this feedback Monster. I too read about the Verite having a tilt towards a warm tone and the suggestion that a silver cable would be best for it. I'll get the headphone first and assess it myself.



At this point I only use ZMF headphones the HD-800s are semi retired.
In the OTL I only use GEC 6AS7s and with the Verite and Aeolus I use the GEC L63 for the driver.
When using the Auteur I use the EL3N with a 6J5 to EL3N adapter that @Deyan made for.me. The EL3N makes a warmer presentation for the Auteur.
These are the only tubes I use but want to try some nice round plate 6J5s and there are many out there.
Monster might disagree with this?
You can try the L63 in the OTL with a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter to see what it sounds like.


----------



## 2359glenn

Deyan said:


> New adapter day.
> EL34 to EL3



Nice it will look like there is no adapter in there.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Sounds like an amp with great potential! I'm also looking to make the most of my other current tubes, so will any of these work? 6SN7, 6N7, 7N7, 6AS7G, 6080, [with adapters: EL32, EL38, EL39, ECC88, E88CC, 6N23P, 12av7)?
> 
> Maybe it's good I'm waiting so long for a Glenn amp, so I can wait to see how a GOTL super compares to the new GEL3N or GEL34+ whichever the name be.



With the proper adapter the EL38 and El39 will be run as they are supposed to run in a output stage not as a cathode follower.


----------



## Deyan

That was the plan all along.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> At this point I only use ZMF headphones the HD-800s are semi retired.
> In the OTL I only use GEC 6AS7s and with the Verite and Aeolus I use the GEC L63 for the driver.
> When using the Auteur I use the EL3N with a 6J5 to EL3N adapter that @Deyan made for.me. The EL3N makes a warmer presentation for the Auteur.
> These are the only tubes I use but want to try some nice round plate 6J5s and there are many out there.
> ...



I wouldnt disagree with what you said above. You have way more tubes than I do. Not to mention we all have our own upstream gear,sonic preferences,etc...
I like the Verite's mids to sound like theyre coming from way out in front of me,and love to hear how they zoom into my skull.  Pink Floyd- "Welcome to the Machine" is great for this.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 3, 2019)

Hey again folks, about the forthcoming HEDDphone One I mentioned a few pages back *here*. This truly is a one-of a kind, emerging technology and listening to it has made such an impact in my sonic journey that I can hardly even see myself buying another dynamic or planar headphone for any serious at home rigs, not in the near future anyway. Not only the special electrodynamic full range Air Motion Transfer driver being technically superior to other drivers, but also the sound left an impression I shall never forget with detail / instrument separation, resolution I have never heard from any headphone aside from perhaps the Orpheus 2.

Anyway a main reason for posting here about it was because this unique headphone was actually somewhat hard to drive. It sounded absolutely brilliant off the Prima Luna Evo 200 and even the mid-fi Quad PA One *"+" *tube amp, but was not driven nearly loud enough on the Euforia that I tried it with, to give you an idea. It's 38 ohms but seems to need a fair bit of current. So any thoughts if a GOTL would be likely to drive it well? Or perhaps I would need a special customization to give it enough juice at 38 ohms or even roll specific tubes to give it more current such as per say the 6336? Or if even the new GEL3N / GEL34+ would drive it better?

One sure way to find if the HEDDphone + GOTL pairing would pair well is to have one of you try it! So anyone who's interested in the HEDDphone one, subscribe to the thread *here*. The manufacturer has said there will be an upcoming North American loaner program, so you just may be able to get in on that later to actually test it on your Glenn amp.


----------



## Monsterzero

DecentLevi said:


> So any thoughts if a GOTL would be likely to drive it well? Or perhaps I would need a special customization to give it enough juice at 38 ohms or even roll specific tubes to give it more current such as per say the 6336? Or if even the new GEL3N / GEL34+ would drive it better?
> 
> One sure way to find if the HEDDphone + GOTL pairing would pair well is to have one of you try it! So anyone who's interested in the HEDDphone one, subscribe to the thread *here*. The manufacturer has said there will be an upcoming North American loaner program, so you just may be able to get in on that later to actually test it on your Glenn amp later.



As you know,Ive been told that I will part of tour,should one ever occur. The GOTL is my only amp,so thats what I will be using if they end up doing the tour. 
I will def be posting my thoughts if and when it happens.


----------



## DecentLevi

2359glenn said:


> With the proper adapter the EL38 and El39 will be run as they are supposed to run in a output stage not as a cathode follower.


Thanks Glenn, so of that list, only the EL38 & 39's would work with an adapter, and none others directly or with an adapter... also exlcuding the EL32, 6080 & 6AS7G?
I do have 6 good EL3N's too.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks Glenn, so of that list, only the EL38 & 39's would work with an adapter, and none others directly or with an adapter... also exlcuding the EL32, 6080 & 6AS7G?
> I do have 6 good EL3N's too.



The EL32 would but no use for a 6080 or 6AS7. The amp would use Pentode output tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Hey again folks, about the forthcoming HEDDphone One I mentioned a few pages back *here*. This truly is a one-of a kind, emerging technology and listening to it has made such an impact in my sonic journey that I can hardly even see myself buying another dynamic or planar headphone for any serious at home rigs, not in the near future anyway. Not only the special electrodynamic full range Air Motion Transfer driver being technically superior to other drivers, but also the sound left an impression I shall never forget with detail / instrument separation, resolution I have never heard from any headphone aside from perhaps the Orpheus 2.
> 
> Anyway a main reason for posting here about it was because this unique headphone was actually somewhat hard to drive. It sounded absolutely brilliant off the Prima Luna Evo 200 and even the mid-fi Quad PA One *"+" *tube amp, but was not driven nearly loud enough on the Euforia that I tried it with, to give you an idea. It's 38 ohms but seems to need a fair bit of current. So any thoughts if a GOTL would be likely to drive it well? Or perhaps I would need a special customization to give it enough juice at 38 ohms or even roll specific tubes to give it more current such as per say the 6336? Or if even the new GEL3N / GEL34+ would drive it better?
> 
> One sure way to find if the HEDDphone + GOTL pairing would pair well is to have one of you try it! So anyone who's interested in the HEDDphone one, subscribe to the thread *here*. The manufacturer has said there will be an upcoming North American loaner program, so you just may be able to get in on that later to actually test it on your Glenn amp.



The OTL should drive them with 6336 or four 6AS7 outputs.
But I would say the EL3N would be better pairing.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I wouldnt disagree with what you said above. You have way more tubes than I do. Not to mention we all have our own upstream gear,sonic preferences,etc...
> I like the Verite's mids to sound like theyre coming from way out in front of me,and love to hear how they zoom into my skull.  Pink Floyd- "Welcome to the Machine" is great for this.



Have you ever tried the L63?


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Have you ever tried the L63?



No. The only GEC driver I have is B36,which I like a lot,but still prefer the Tung Sol RPs.

BTW,I sent you a PM.


----------



## leftside

Deyan said:


> New adapter day.
> EL34 to EL3


Hmmm.... I do believe this opens the door to using the EL34/6V6/6L6/etc tubes for existing EL3N owners. The 6V6 alone has multiple variations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6V6

@Deyan Can you build me EL3 to EL34 adapters?
@2359glenn will I need 4 of these adapters?


----------



## Deyan

2359glenn said:


> Nice it will look like there is no adapter in there.





leftside said:


> Hmmm.... I do believe this opens the door to using the EL34/6V6/6L6/etc tubes for existing EL3N owners. The 6V6 alone has multiple variations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6V6
> 
> @Deyan Can you build me EL3 to EL34 adapters?
> @2359glenn will I need 4 of these adapters?



Mhm sure I can.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You can try the L63 in the OTL with a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter to see what it sounds like.



I don't think I'll try the L63 in the OTL amp because I've too many adapters already. 

So tell me more about this new GEL34. Will it have EL3N or L63 / 6J5 as drivers? If L63 is used, will it be 2 per channel, making it a total of 4?

How many EL34 / 6V6 / 5881 / etc slots will there be for the power. Would a switch be required to go from EL34 to KT66? I'm asking because on the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP, there is a switch to go from EL34 to KT77, KT88, KT120.

What power output will this amp produce?

As with the GEL3N, I suppose this will drive low ohms headphones well?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Thread is blowing up, I love it.  Speaking of 6J5 tubes, I got off work early and came home to some awesome ones.

I fell in love with the East German RFT 6SN7 and accidentally spotted a picture of a its 6J5 cousin.  Since then, I had been trying to hunt down a pair.  Finally found a NIB pair from a seller in Germany, great sounding tubes on first listen, a lot of what the 6SN7 offers, will have to see how they compare.  Even better, they match the GOTL.


----------



## rnros

Deyan said:


> New adapter day.
> EL34 to EL3



Nice, Deyan. Minimal and clean, will hardly be noticeable on that beautiful GEL3N deck.


----------



## UntilThen

Dang @L0rdGwyn , I'll have adapters coming out of my ears. That does look OK on the OTL so I've just ask Deyan to make me a dual L63/6J5 to 6SN7 adapter.


----------



## Deyan

rnros said:


> Nice, Deyan. Minimal and clean, will hardly be noticeable on that beautiful GEL3N deck.


Glad you like them.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> I don't think I'll try the L63 in the OTL amp because I've too many adapters already.
> 
> So tell me more about this new GEL34. Will it have EL3N or L63 / 6J5 as drivers? If L63 is used, will it be 2 per channel, making it a total of 4?
> 
> ...


I'll answer these questions as best I can.

1) Current plan is to have 2 L63/6J5 drivers. Equivalent to 1 6SN7.
2) I think there will be 4 slots for power. Waiting for Glenn to confirm. A switch won't be 'required' to go from EL34 to KT66, but @2359glenn  might think it appropriate to maximize the different power tubes?
3) Unsure of power output at the moment. "Low" power is fine as I already have a beast of an amp with the 300B.
4) Will target sensitive, easy to drive low ohm headphones like the Focal Stellia and HiFiMan HE1000se. Appropriate transformers will need to be ordered.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Appropriate transformers will need to be ordered.



Will these be 3 Lundahl transformer as used in the GEL3N amp?

I kind of like the idea to use 2 x L63/6J5 as drivers. So I'm going to buy 2 GEC L63 now to try out in the OTL amp.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Will target sensitive, easy to drive low ohm headphones like the Focal Stellia and HiFiMan HE1000se.



It should still be suitable to drive high ohm headphones like the HD800, ZMF Verite?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I don't think I'll try the L63 in the OTL amp because I've too many adapters already.
> 
> So tell me more about this new GEL34. Will it have EL3N or L63 / 6J5 as drivers? If L63 is used, will it be 2 per channel, making it a total of 4?
> 
> ...



Yes it will drive low ohm phones easily.
The normal circuit I use in the EL3N amp the EL3N driver is run at much higher current then a 6J5 is really made fore.
I can make it for a 6J5 and when using the EL3N it would sound like it was in the OTL with a dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter.
The L63/6J5 is 1/2 a  6SN7.  I use the GEC L63 because it is much cheaper then using a GEC B65 or B36 and many are available.
I have to look if I need to switch the cathode resistor for the KT66.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Dang @L0rdGwyn , I'll have adapters coming out of my ears. That does look OK on the OTL so I've just ask Deyan to make me a dual L63/6J5 to 6SN7 adapter.



With adapters that look this good, how can you resist  Deyan has an eye for making them blend in with the amp, perfect.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Will these be 3 Lundahl transformer as used in the GEL3N amp?
> 
> I kind of like the idea to use 2 x L63/6J5 as drivers. So I'm going to buy 2 GEC L63 now to try out in the OTL amp.



Yes 3 Lundahl transformers across the back.


----------



## 2359glenn

Those that are buying L63s try to get the G stile or coke bottle shape with oval plates.
The plates are hard to see as the inside is coated. 
Not sure what the GT shape with flat plates sound like I never tried one. They might sound just as good.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The normal circuit I use in the EL3N amp the EL3N driver is run at much higher current then a 6J5 is really made fore.
> I can make it for a 6J5 and when using the EL3N it would sound like it was in the OTL with a dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter.



In your opinion, which will sound better as driver for this new amp - EL3N or L63 ?

I don't like the idea of a dual EL3N to 6SN7 to mar the look of this new creature. 

Maybe have EL3N as drivers with the option to use L63 into the EL3N slots with adapters?


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> It should still be suitable to drive high ohm headphones like the HD800, ZMF Verite?


The transformers (I'm guessing around 4 ohm output) will target low (30ish) ohm headphones, but I can't imagine there being any problems with higher ohm headphones. I think the existing EL3N has higher ohm output to make it more suitable for a wider range of headphones.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Those that are buying L63s try to get the G stile or coke bottle shape with oval plates.
> The plates are hard to see as the inside is coated.
> Not sure what the GT shape with flat plates sound like I never tried one. They might sound just as good.


They all sound great in my other amp. My order of slight preference is: coke bottle > GT black plate D getter > GT grey plate halo getter. Most of the ones listed on eBay with 'Buy it now' have crazy prices. But, they do come up quite regularly in regular auctions, or from sellers like Langrex or Colomor.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> They all sound great in my other amp. My order of slight preference is: coke bottle > GT black plate D getter > GT grey plate halo getter. Most of the ones listed on eBay with 'Buy it now' have crazy prices. But, they do come up quite regularly in regular auctions, or from sellers like Langrex or Colomor.



This one is from Langrex. Is this the GT black plate D getter?  The coke bottle ones are expensive now but if I do go with the GEL34 amp, I will get it.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> This one is from Langrex. Is this the GT black plate D getter?  The coke bottle ones are expensive now but if I do go with the GEL34 amp, I will get it.


I’m guessing with that date code it will be the later halo getter grey plate. I have that tube - still.sounds great.


----------



## 2359glenn

I got my G shape L63 from Langrex the pair cost $159 US I didn't think that was to bad glad I got them!!


----------



## UntilThen

A seller that I've bought EL32 from is selling the GEC 6J5G L63 for $199 US a pair.


----------



## gibosi

DecentLevi said:


> Anyway a main reason for posting here about it was because this unique headphone was actually somewhat hard to drive. It sounded absolutely brilliant off the Prima Luna Evo 200 and even the mid-fi Quad PA One *"+" *tube amp, but was not driven nearly loud enough on the Euforia that I tried it with, to give you an idea. It's 38 ohms but seems to need a fair bit of current. So any thoughts if a GOTL would be likely to drive it well? Or perhaps I would need a special customization to give it enough juice at 38 ohms or even roll specific tubes to give it more current such as per say the 6336? Or if even the new GEL3N / GEL34+ would drive it better?



As a general rule, inefficient, low-z headphones sound best with a transformer coupled amp, such as the GEL3N. Yes, I am sure that a pair of 6336 in the GOTL will do a decent job. But it seems to me that you want more than decent sound. You want the best.  And a transformer-coupled amp is the way to go.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> There,fixed that for you.


LOL


----------



## UntilThen

Really like this new amp idea. I'm even thinking of buying these GEC L63 and 6V6G. Get a nice tube rectifier and it should be a gorgeous sound with Glenn's tuning.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> A seller that I've bought EL32 from is selling the GEC 6J5G L63 for $199 US a pair.



Not totally outrageous but a little steep. 
I think they sound great though but other tubes might sound as good.
Haven't tried all the 6J5s yet there are many to try and all are cheaper then the L63.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> In your opinion, which will sound better as driver for this new amp - EL3N or L63 ?



Glenn, take a moment and answer this question.


----------



## 2359glenn

To be honest I am not sure.
The L63 will be quieter and have less noise a EL3N is really a power output tube


----------



## UntilThen

There are lots of 6J5G tubes at quite reasonable price. What other variants of 6J5 can be used? 6C5 the predessor of 6J5?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> There are lots of 6J5G tubes at quite reasonable price. What other variants of 6J5 can be used? 6C5 the predessor of 6J5?



Yes but I haven't tried the 6C5 yet.
If the output tube is not a EL3N no need to use a EL3N for the driver. I done that because they both have the same distortion and the signal out of the driver is 180 deg out of phase
and cancels the distortion.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes but I haven't tried the 6C5 yet.
> If the output tube is not a EL3N no need to use a EL3N for the driver. I done that because they both have the same distortion and the signal out of the driver is 180 deg out of phase
> and cancels the distortion.



Good. I like that. Let's take EL3N out of this. L63 / 6J5 with EL34 / 6V6 / 6L6 / 5881 with a tube rectifier makes for a very pleasing look aesthetically. 

I'll see what @leftside think about this. When are you doing his amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

Probably none of the 6J5 and variants are going to sound better then a GEC L63


----------



## UntilThen

Well then I’ll only need one pair of good GEC L63.


----------



## heliosphann

Man. Get behind a few days and I had 200+ posts to catch up on!

I was listening to some Herb Alpert and my friend happened to send me this amazing Mash-up:


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Man. Get behind a few days and I had 200+ posts to catch up on!



Ha I got away for more than a month and I dare not catch up on all the unread posts.... and now we're talking about a new amp here, which I'm really getting very excited about.

Glenn, what tube rectifier to use in the GEL34? Similar to those used in the GEL3N?


----------



## UntilThen

The OTL amp is sounding exceptional today with GEC B36 and Cetron 6336B. Extended high end, crisp and clear mids and a tight and authoritative bass.


----------



## leftside (Aug 3, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> There are lots of 6J5G tubes at quite reasonable price. What other variants of 6J5 can be used? 6C5 the predessor of 6J5?





UntilThen said:


> Good. I like that. Let's take EL3N out of this. L63 / 6J5 with EL34 / 6V6 / 6L6 / 5881 with a tube rectifier makes for a very pleasing look aesthetically.
> 
> I'll see what @leftside think about this. When are you doing his amp?


I also really like the RCA, Mullard, TungSol and Raytheon (VR-67) 6J5G, but definitely not a necessity if you have the GEC. Nice tube rolling options. These tubes, being early tubes, all used the best materials. Black plates, etc.

6C5G are really good. Brimar, Mullard, Fivre...  The Mullard have a very distinct warm (but not mushy sound). The Fivre are spectacular. Very dynamic and alive. But they are tough to find, and when they do turn up, the Italian sellers want a lot for them. But, if you are patient they do sometimes also turn up from other sellers.

Some people also love the 6P5 if you do some googling. I don't have too many of those though.

I'm going for 4 (probably, but Glenn will need to confirm) 6V6/6L6/countless variations, 2 L63 and an appropriate rectifier.

I honestly don't know if this amp will be better or worse (probably about the same...) as the EL3N or the GOTL. But, for me, it makes sense to have this as my third amp with those tubes that I have. Saying "makes sense" obviously only "makes sense" on this forum  In the real world this is probably a little crazy...


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I'm going for 4 (probably, but Glenn will need to confirm) 6V6/6L6/countless variations, 2 L63 and an appropriate rectifier.



4 power tubes ! I'll see how yours pan out but I'll probably just have 2 power tubes. In the GEL3N, it's 2 and it has plenty of power to drive Joe's headphones and @Sound Trooper ... where's he gone btw 

2 power tubes means less to spend.  

Where's your EL34 tubes? That's the leader of the pack.




leftside said:


> I honestly don't know if this amp will be better or worse (probably about the same...) as the EL3N or the GOTL. But, for me, it makes sense to have this as my third amp with those tubes that I have. Saying "makes sense" obviously only "makes sense" on this forum  In the real world this is probably a little crazy...



Don't worry about it not sounding good. Glenn will make it sound good.


----------



## leftside (Aug 4, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> 4 power tubes ! I'll see how yours pan out but I'll probably just have 2 power tubes. In the GEL3N, it's 2 and it has plenty of power to drive Joe's headphones and @Sound Trooper ... where's he gone btw
> 
> 2 power tubes means less to spend.
> 
> ...


2 power tubes would also be good for me in this amp 

No EL34 tubes for me yet. Probably one day..:


----------



## UntilThen

Oh yes ! Zach replied and I'll be getting a Pheasantwood Verite in brass. Pheasant not peasant. 

This is a Pheasant - beautiful.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 4, 2019)

That's awesome the new GEL3N amp also uses EL34 and EL38 / 39 which are some of the best, as well as a few others I haven't tried. But if I get this as an upgrade to my Euforia amp I may be a little bummed I'll never get to see the true potential of some of my top power tubes such as GEC 6AS7G, Mullard 6080 and 6336. @2359glenn I wonder if you can somehow implement a way to run any of those on it as well, if even perhaps by a switch?


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> There,fixed that for you.



Ha ha.....thanks you are absolutely right.





Deyan said:


> New adapter day.
> EL34 to EL3



Those looks wonderful Deyan  

Anybody have a pair of Mullard EL34 XF2 for sale ?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Ha I got away for more than a month and I dare not catch up on all the unread posts.... and now we're talking about a new amp here, which I'm really getting very excited about.
> 
> Glenn, what tube rectifier to use in the GEL34? Similar to those used in the GEL3N?



The amp will be able to use any 5 volt or a 3DG4. Plus with a octal 3DG4 to B4 socket all the European 4 volt rectifiers. Up to 6 amps filament current.
Ask Joe @whirlwind all the tubes he can use. With the 4 volt you can still get some nice mesh plate rectifiers that look really nice lit up.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> The OTL amp is sounding exceptional today with GEC B36 and Cetron 6336B. Extended high end, crisp and clear mids and a tight and authoritative bass.



If you want we can use that B36 instead of two L63. Really the same tube just the B36 has two L63s inside if it is GEC.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> That's awesome the new GEL3N amp also uses EL34 and EL38 / 39 which are some of the best, as well as a few others I haven't tried. But if I get this as an upgrade to my Euforia amp I may be a little bummed I'll never get to see the true potential of some of my top power tubes such as GEC 6AS7G, Mullard 6080 and 6336. @2359glenn I wonder if you can somehow implement a way to run any of those on it as well, if even perhaps by a switch?



The 6AS7 and 6080 are low impedance tubes and would need a different output transformers to run these tubes.
Don't think i can get a transformer that I can switch the impedance from the 6AS7 to EL34 , EL38 , EL39 these tubes require higher impedance.
I suppose I could have a transformer made but I think it would be compromised with a tap on the primary.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> I also really like the RCA, Mullard, TungSol and Raytheon (VR-67) 6J5G, but definitely not a necessity if you have the GEC. Nice tube rolling options. These tubes, being early tubes, all used the best materials. Black plates, etc.
> 
> 6C5G are really good. Brimar, Mullard, Fivre...  The Mullard have a very distinct warm (but not mushy sound). The Fivre are spectacular. Very dynamic and alive. But they are tough to find, and when they do turn up, the Italian sellers want a lot for them. But, if you are patient they do sometimes also turn up from other sellers.
> 
> ...





Ha....Saying "makes sense" obviously only "makes sense" on this forum  In the real world this is probably a little crazy...

This has to be the quote of the day!  You already have all of these tubes...so why not!


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Oh yes ! Zach replied and I'll be getting a Pheasantwood Verite in brass. Pheasant not peasant.
> 
> This is a Pheasant - beautiful.



You won't be disappointed in one of Zack's headphones especially the Verite
The OTL makes these phones sing use the B36 and a couple of good 6AS7s or the 6BX7s.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Ha....Saying "makes sense" obviously only "makes sense" on this forum  In the real world this is probably a little crazy...
> 
> This has to be the quote of the day!  You already have all of these tubes...so why not!



Why crazy the EL3N and the EL34 are great sounding tubes.
Many great amps use the EL34. and it will be run with little current so it will last for ever.


----------



## whirlwind

Oh I love the idea...I was just quoting @leftside post

He owns all of the tubes so why not have an amp that can use them all...great idea.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Oh I love the idea...I was just quoting @leftside post
> 
> He owns all of the tubes so why not have an amp that can use them all...great idea.



You can use these tubes if you get @Deyan adapters. Some of these tubes are cheep like the 6K6.
Not the high quality ones he has though.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> You can use these tubes if you get @Deyan adapters. Some of these tubes are cheep like the 6K6.
> Not the high quality ones he has though.




Yes, Deyan has already made me the adapters .
Looking to try the EL34 in the power position....If I like them then I will buy some nice Mullards from the late 50's early 60's


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Yes, Deyan has already made me the adapters .
> Looking to try the EL34 in the power position....If I like them then I will buy some nice Mullards from the late 50's early 60's



I got some Mullard EL34s rebranded as IEC for $35 each.
If you look you can find some rebrand tubes cheep also look at GE some of them are Mullard.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I got some Mullard EL34s rebranded as IEC for $35 each.
> If you look you can find some rebrand tubes cheep also look at GE some of them are Mullard.



OK....Thanks.
Going to leave the EL3N in as drivers.

In one tube mode will just be using EL34 correct ?


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> OK....Thanks.
> Going to leave the EL3N in as drivers.
> 
> In one tube mode will just be using EL34 correct ?



Yes if your DAC can drive them most can.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 4, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Yes if your DAC can drive them most can.




Thanks.

Mullard/Phillips are the only pentodes and everything else is a beam tetrode correct ?  Like Gold Lion reissue KT77

Are current issue Mullards  pentodes or beam tetrodes ?
I am guessing beam tetrodes since they are made in Russia.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Mullard/Phillips are the only pentodes and everything else is a beam tetrode correct ?  Like Gold Lion reissue KT77
> 
> Are current issue Mullards  pentodes or beam tetrodes ?



The 6K6 is also a true pentode like the EL34 the 6V6 is a beam tube.  I feel true pentodes sound better.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The 6K6 is also a true pentode like the EL34 the 6V6 is a beam tube.  I feel true pentodes sound better.




Thanks Glenn.


----------



## mordy

Hi Glenn,
Reading about all the excitement surrounding the new amp I have come to the conclusion that it especially appeals to tube rollers - zillions of new tube combinations possible.
What is the main purpose of this amp? To serve as a headphone amp that can double as a power amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

It is a transformer couple headphone amp for hard to drive phones.
I really is the same as the EL3N amp.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> It is a transformer couple headphone amp for hard to drive phones.
> I really is the same as the EL3N amp.


Thanks


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Won these today at auction, pretty good price, $136 USD shipped.  I had been in communication with the seller since it listed and they test NOS.  Can now replace my dud pair and see how they measure up against the rest of the 6J5s.


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> Won these today at auction, pretty good price, $136 USD shipped.  I had been in communication with the seller since it listed and they test NOS.  Can now replace my dud pair and see how they measure up against the rest of the 6J5s.



I almost bid on those.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> I almost bid on those.



I meant to grab them at their Buy It Now price but someone bid before I could.  Seller said they would accept my offer but didn't know how to enable offers on eBay ha! I ended up saving 7 GBP but I bid much higher, so thanks for not bidding!!!


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Won these today at auction, pretty good price, $136 USD shipped.  I had been in communication with the seller since it listed and they test NOS.  Can now replace my dud pair and see how they measure up against the rest of the 6J5s.



Congrats! Those are beautiful.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Looking to try the EL34 in the power position....If I like them then I will buy some nice Mullards from the late 50's early 60's



Joe, looking forward to your experiment. Maybe try a cheap pair of reissue EL34s. The NOS ones are expensive but if it sounds good then it's worth getting a pair.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> If you want we can use that B36 instead of two L63. Really the same tube just the B36 has two L63s inside if it is GEC.



The GEC B36 has a lovely tone. Together with the Mullard ECC33, ECC35 and Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, they are my fav drivers. I am quite happy using any of those.

With the transformer coupled amp, using 2 drivers looks better than one. Yeah I know .... looks... but looks is important when you want to spend for a custom amp. 

Speaking of looks, the GEL3N amp is a very striking amp too with those red EL3N tubes.


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> The GEC B36 has a lovely tone. Together with the Mullard ECC33, ECC35 and Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, they are my fav drivers. I am quite happy using any of those.
> 
> With the transformer coupled amp, using 2 drivers looks better than one. Yeah I know .... looks... but looks is important when you want to spend for a custom amp.
> 
> Speaking of looks, the GEL3N amp is a very striking amp too with those red EL3N tubes.



Trying to find a B36.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey guys, just thought I'd mention about the 6BL7 tubes. In my extensive comparisons (as multi-combo powers on the Euforia amp anyway), I've discovered the tung-sol 6BL7 far outclass the GE 6BL7 - much more robust / clear dynamic and focused presentation - just FYI / IMO. They're all 6BL7 "GTA", but the Tung-Sol ones with the shorter base are my preference.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 4, 2019)

Well I've gotta hand it to folks for recent days' revelations with the new GEL3N / EL34+ amp (let's find a better name LOL). This has got me HOOKED, line and sinker - sold! Pending any unforseen manufacturing issues I plan to get this amp next - after finishing my guilty little splurge on the new "limited edition" version of Stax L300 Lambda headphones to pair with my Stax SRM-1 / MK2 amp (hey why not, it's rare, on sale and sounded 'romantically' good in my tests!), then saving again.

What I love about the concept of this upcoming amp from what I've read here is that it drives low impedance headphones - and as luck would have it BOTH of the next two headphones I'm interested in are low-z: The new technology HEDDphone One @ 38 ohms, and the Rad-0 from Rosson Audio @ 55ohms which I'm also considering. (Side note: for anyone dead set on getting another dynamic or planar headphone, BY ALL MEANS at least read the last few pages of its' impressions thread here. For me it's my favorite planar and almost nobody has been able to fault it yet.) Also IIRC several on this thread have mentioned something about the GEL3N sounding superior even to a GOTL super, and it sounding a bit more 'solid state' like - somebody correct me if I'm wrong. And although the EL3N are not my favorite tube for their frankly sub-par pairing on the F.A. amps, I would love to hear these when implemented correctly on a Glenn amp, and I'm also a fan of EL34, EL38 are good but EL39 are world class, at least as powers on my current amp anyway.

Next I would be interested to know about the full specs such as # of tube slots for driver / power and types accepted.

Next maybe Glenn can apply some sort of a longest-time-lurker discount.


----------



## DecentLevi

2359glenn said:


> The 6AS7 and 6080 are low impedance tubes and would need a different output transformers to run these tubes.
> Don't think i can get a transformer that I can switch the impedance from the 6AS7 to EL34 , EL38 , EL39 these tubes require higher impedance.
> I suppose I could have a transformer made but I think it would be compromised with a tap on the primary.


If my interpretation is correct you are saying something like possibly making a special transformer that can be switched to run either EL34 or 6AS7 (but not 6336?), but it would compromise the optimal operating points of the transformer. And what is a "tap on the primary"? Or another idea that may potentially have a better sonic result is to have two separate transformers; one for 6336 (or) 6AS7 and another for EL34 and have the switch select between the two.


----------



## UntilThen

DL, any pictures of the EL39? I haven’t seen one.


----------



## DecentLevi

^ edited a typo on the Stax headphone model above


----------



## leftside (Aug 4, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> It is a transformer couple headphone amp for hard to drive phones.
> I really is the same as the EL3N amp.


My particular build will be for easier to drive, low ohm impedance headphones though? I.e. Focal Stellia and HiFiMan 1000SE. Different transformers?


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 4, 2019)

I managed to get one Dario & one Philips EL39 a few weeks ago from different sources and they pair famously together on the Euforia.


Also are several variants of EL38 that are identical in appearance and similar sound of EL39 except a smaller base: Philips, Dario, RT and black glass Mazda, the latter said to be superior. For EL39 however the frenzy around the Euforia thread seems to have currently dried up all inventory, however it doesn't hurt to try every now & then for either EL39 or the above mentioned special EL38's. Do note however EL38 and 39 require separate adapters. Currently the only ones were hand-crafted by @hypnos1 himself.

You can read more about the sound of the EL39's and similar versions *here*.

And this was a good quote to sum up their sound from one of the most experienced users:
_At the end of the day, I personally believe the combo of EL39 especially as power tube, partnered by one's favourite/preferred driver, can outperform any top flight conventional set of tubes...again, without having to spend a fortune and to a degree that depends on the rest of the system of course. In my own particular setup, I'm still being confounded by each of my testing pieces of music that I revisit...and still cannot believe it lol! _


----------



## UntilThen

EL38 / 39 better than EL34?  

I don’t think they experimented with EL34.

That said, the good thing about the EL38 is the price. A NOS pair of Mullard EL38 is much cheaper than a NOS pair of Mullard EL34.

Deyan would be able to do any adapters you require.


----------



## Deyan

UntilThen said:


> EL38 / 39 better than EL34?
> 
> I don’t think they experimented with EL34.
> 
> ...



You are flattering me.


----------



## mordy (Aug 4, 2019)

Played several versions of the Overture of William Tell to check out my system. Here is a Japanese version played very well - got a kick out of watching the conductor; different style than western conductors, but very effective.....

Notice how everybody is smiling as the conductor applauds the orchestra at the end!


----------



## UntilThen

I don’t plan on doing a lot of tube rolling with the new amp. Famous last words.

I have been thinking about what Glenn said about using a single GEC B36. Now if that is possible, that means I can also use my other fav drivers, such as the Mullard ECC33, 35 and Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. 

I haven’t got any of the power tubes yet. So maybe start off with a pair of EL34 NOS and the EL38, the latter just to satisfy my curiosity.


----------



## leftside (Aug 4, 2019)

GEC also did a version of the EL38. E3375:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/122938-fans-el38-e3375-print.html
https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/tubes/204314/


----------



## UntilThen

If you see a GEC EL38, just quietly send it my way.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 5, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> EL38 / 39 better than EL34?
> 
> I don’t think they experimented with EL34.
> 
> ...


The EL34's were not compatible so we did not compare them to the EL39. On the Euforia at least they are a super special tube, absolutely mastering flawlessly every aspect - extension, PRaT, realism, soundstage, timbre, sense of air and seemingly infinite ability to perfectly reproduce complex arrangements including wonderful bass without any sign of struggle - and that was compared to all the big boys compatible even GEC 6AS7G, Bendix and other 6080, EL3N, EL11, EL12, EL32, EL38 and this was a comparison which had 100% unanamous agrement to at least 6 people scattered across the globe who have compared the EL39's to the majority of those. To me the EL 38 & 39  are similar only in number designation but that's where the similarities end. The EL38 are _modestly_ euphonic and mid centric - that is to say they sound splendid in their own right and better than many that came before, but then when putting in the EL39 you're taken to vastly new waters of bliss that's uncomparable. That's not to say the results won't vary on another amp.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 5, 2019)

I tried a transformer coupled tube amp at SoCal CanJam - Quad PA One *+*, a massively good performer for a mid-fi tube amp. It had a similar form factor as the Euforia but also included a high/low gain switch and internal DAC, and was only 1/2 the cost. Further comparison needed, but I was more impressed with it than the Euforia, yielding at least 2-3x more current for better driver control and excelled with harder to drive cans as well as high-z cans. While the transient response was up there with the best I've heard, I did notice however a very subtly slow decay (drums last longer), and I'm under the impression it may have something to do with being transformer coupled as opposed to the 'faster' sound of drums on my Euforia which is an OTL amp.

The new GEL3N is also transformer coupled, so would anyone say this may cause a similar slow decay of drums type of effect? Moreover I'm wondering if tube rolling makes less of a difference on this type of an amp, being the tubes are not in the final output stage?
I'm by no means criticizing the design and I like this concept, but am just curious from a technical standpoint.

PS Glenn and anyone please see my questions on the last page.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> My particular build will be for easier to drive, low ohm impedance headphones though? I.e. Focal Stellia and HiFiMan 1000SE. Different transformers?



What is the impedance of these phones?


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 5, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Joe, looking forward to your experiment. Maybe try a cheap pair of reissue EL34s. The NOS ones are expensive but if it sounds good then it's worth getting a pair.



I think this is going to be the plan....unless a killer deal for at  least some XF2 Mullards comes around.
Good thing is I only need a pair for powers.

I have found someone who has a few


----------



## UntilThen

Let's go half half on that.


----------



## UntilThen

I just paid for this beauty. It's the last Pheasant wood Verite in Zach's stable. Now looking forward to hearing it with the GOTL.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I just paid for this beauty. It's the last Pheasant wood Verite in Zach's stable. Now looking forward to hearing it with the GOTL.



Beautiful!  I am hoping to get one in an exotic early next year, I loved the limited ziricote he put out a few months ago.  How great that they are already built, enjoy.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Beautiful!  I am hoping to get one in an exotic early next year, I loved the limited ziricote he put out a few months ago.  How great that they are already built, enjoy.



Thank you.  The limited edition woods are very nice. The Cocobolo Verite on the website now also look stunning. You have something to look forward to.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Thank you.  The limited edition woods are very nice. The Cocobolo Verite on the website now also look stunning. You have something to look forward to.



Oh boy, I have the Auteur in cocobolo, I didn't realize he had released the Vérité in it...or the Eikon in ziricote...avert thine eyes!


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> I just paid for this beauty. It's the last Pheasant wood Verite in Zach's stable. Now looking forward to hearing it with the GOTL.



Congrats Matt! That looks just like mine too haha. @2359glenn is teasing me, telling me how awesome the Verite sounds out of the OTL. The next 2 weeks to my amp build cant come soon enough


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Congrats Matt! That looks just like mine too haha. @2359glenn is teasing me, telling me how awesome the Verite sounds out of the OTL. The next 2 weeks to my amp build cant come soon enough



No, no, no, yours is much much nicer. I kept your picture. It's the reason I wanted a Pheasantwood Verite. Your OTL build starting in 2 weeks? Hurray! Happy for you. 

I'm using ECC33 and 6bx7s now. The OTL makes my HD800 sound amazing. 

Your Pheasantwood Verite   What did you use to polish it to make it so shiny?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I learned last night that once you roll in 6336 tubes, you are committed.  If you try to roll them out, you'll end up with third-degree burns.

Taking a less painful approach this morning.  Getting in touch with my Irish heritage listening to some Planxty.  Radiotechnique 6N7G and Toshiba 6BX7, wonderful.


----------



## UntilThen

The OTL amp looks stunning with 6 of those 6bx7 and a big chunky driver. Where did you find those Toshiba 6bx7s and you have the Tung Sol 6bx7s too. Nice tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> The OTL amp looks stunning with 6 of those 6bx7 and a big chunky driver. Where did you find those Toshiba 6bx7s and you have the Tung Sol 6bx7s too. Nice tubes.



Thanks Matt, I think I have a set of every 6BX7 except for Sylvania (RCA clear-top, GE, Fivre, Toshiba, Tung-Sol).  I have sets of Sylvania flat and T-plate 6BL7 as well.  At some point, I would like to do a thorough comparison, if it would be helpful to the thread.


----------



## UntilThen

You're welcome to do the comparisons and share with us but do use socket savers if you're going to make frequent tube changes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Yes, I use socket savers while swapping frequently but leave them out for long listening sessions for aesthetic reasons  I could easily replace a worn socket if necessary.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I think this is going to be the plan....unless a killer deal for at  least some XF2 Mullards comes around.
> Good thing is I only need a pair for powers.
> 
> I have found someone who has a few



PM incoming..


----------



## leftside (Aug 5, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> What is the impedance of these phones?


Stellia:
Impedance: 35 ohms
Sensitivity: 106dB

1000se:
Impedance: 35 ohms
Sensitivity: 96dB

I mainly use the Stellia when listening outside with my portable amp, but they are such nice headphones, that I'd also like to use them with a custom headphone amp. The 300B amp is total overkill for them though, so I'd prefer something a little more suitable. They sound great with the Woo WA22, but I'm sure you can do better  Obviously, I also want to use the 6L6/6V6 tubes that I have.


----------



## Phantaminum

@2359glenn Hey Glenn, you got a PM.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Stellia:
> Impedance: 35 ohms
> Sensitivity: 106dB
> 
> ...



A Lundahl output transformer wired for 32 ohms will be perfect for these


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Let's go half half on that.



Well, if more people want some, it may cut the cost a little.....they are Mullard EL34 xf2 and the quote I got was $500 for a quad set





Monsterzero said:


> PM incoming..



PM returned


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> @2359glenn Hey Glenn, you got a PM.



OK
I would have answered from work but it got struck by lightning there over the weekend.
Computers and phones were down Blown switch for network and phones were a mess.
Worse then a normal morning.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 5, 2019)

deleted post


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> A Lundahl output transformer wired for 32 ohms will be perfect for these


Nice. Certainly can't get that with an off-the-shelf amp. Here we have the amp designer matching the transformer for the headphones.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Nice. Certainly can't get that with an off-the-shelf amp. Here we have the amp designer matching the transformer for the headphones.



Well yea the closer the impedance match the better with a transformer coupled amp.
Your 300B amp is set at 32 ohms.


----------



## UntilThen

Is the GEL3N amp at 32 ohms?


----------



## leftside (Aug 5, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Well yea the closer the impedance match the better with a transformer coupled amp.
> Your 300B amp is set at 32 ohms.


The 300B amp doesn't work so well with the Stellia though. The Stellia are too sensitive and noise is generated. The 300B is dead silent with the LCD4 (and 3) though.

If your company wants to move to the Cloud, I might be able to help, but I admit hardware electronics is not my day job. I've been trying to read what I can about matching amps to headphones and found this article useful:
https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/

"The term ‘*rule of eighths*’ is used as a rough guide. Divide the headphone impedance by 8, and that is the maximum source output impedance (32 ohm headphones / 8 = 4 ohm maximum source output impedance). In practice, it isn’t that strict a rule and often success can be had with a greater range."


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 5, 2019)

I know the consensus is the 6BX7 is a bit better than the 6BL7, but these Sylvania flat-plate 6BL7 are quite good and can definitely hang with the 6BX7.  I've been rolling through 6J5 drivers and I am really enjoying them as outputs so far paired with a little Peter Gabriel and some Radiohead.  Don't mind my cats casually destroying my work bag.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> The 300B amp doesn't work so well with the Stellia though. The Stellia are too sensitive and noise is generated. The 300B is dead silent with the LCD4 (and 3) though.
> 
> If your company wants to move to the Cloud, I might be able to help, but I admit hardware electronics is not my day job. I've been trying to read what I can about matching amps to headphones and found this article useful:
> https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/
> ...



I can set the output impedance 2 , 4 , 8 , 16 , 32 , or 120 ohms.
You can think a transformer as a transmission with a ratio. With a 32 ohm load hooked to the 32 ohm secondary the output tube sees a perfect 7K ohm for the EL3N
If the output is 16 ohms with a 32 ohm load the tube will see 14K ohms and that will lower the power but reduce the distortion.
I can make the amp any of those impedance settings just tell me what you want.

The EL3N amp will have less noise then a 300B amp. It doesn't need special filtered DC voltage to the filament.
I have the EL3Ns running on DC to make them quieter. plus it can be run in single tube with no driver total silence just less gain.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> I can set the output impedance 2 , 4 , 8 , 16 , 32 , or 120 ohms.
> You can think a transformer as a transmission with a ratio. With a 32 ohm load hooked to the 32 ohm secondary the output tube sees a perfect 7K ohm for the EL3N
> If the output is 16 ohms with a 32 ohm load the tube will see 14K ohms and that will lower the power but reduce the distortion.
> I can make the amp any of those impedance settings just tell me what you want.
> ...


Great information Glenn. Thanks for taking the time to explain and post. Let's chat nearer the time in regards to the best transformer in this configuration for low ohm headphones such as the Stellia. Perhaps there will need to be a balance between the most appropriate load for the output tubes and for the headphones.


----------



## gibosi (Aug 5, 2019)

Momentarily changing the topic...  Picked up a somewhat rare 5U4G. This one was manufactured by Ferranti, which was a British electronics company that operated for over a century, from 1885 until it went bankrupt in 1993.

Again, per Glenn, this can be used in the OTL with four or six 6BL7 / 6BX7, but it is not powerful enough to use with 6AS7-type output tubes. And of course, it is perfectly suitable for use in the GEL3N.

I am pleased to report that it lights up but haven't had a chance to audition it. Later this evening I hope....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello Peeps...

Been a warm summer, been busy with lots of outdoor projects.  Fired up the GOTL this evening, to make sure it still works 

And happily, it does.  

Using the simple tube set of an NOS Visseaux 6N7GT driver and a pair of Mullard 6080's as powers....HOW SWEET IT IS!!!

If we have any Acoustic Bass aficionado's reading, may I suggest:



 

Artist: Brian Bromberg
Album: Wood II

Listen carefully, kids, and all your hopes and dreams might just come true 


Cheers....

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> I know the consensus is the 6BX7 is a bit better than the 6BL7, but these Sylvania flat-plate 6BL7 are quite good and can definitely hang with the 6BX7.  I've been rolling through 6J5 drivers and I am really enjoying them as outputs so far paired with a little Peter Gabriel and some Radiohead.  Don't mind my cats casually destroying my work bag.



I like the BL's scads better, than the BX's.

New consensus (of two).

Cheers


----------



## vipervick

Hello,

I am interested in an OTL build. I know nothing about them so far, but I was an Electronics Technician in the Navy for 20 years and a 2M Tech.


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Aug 6, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> No, no, no, yours is much much nicer. I kept your picture. It's the reason I wanted a Pheasantwood Verite. Your OTL build starting in 2 weeks? Hurray! Happy for you.
> 
> I'm using ECC33 and 6bx7s now. The OTL makes my HD800 sound amazing.
> 
> Your Pheasantwood Verite   What did you use to polish it to make it so shiny?



looks the same to me mate haha

Shiny headphone photo = good lighting + Pixel 3XL camera + some Taylor's carnauba wax guitar polish + microfibre polishing cloth


----------



## UsoppNoKami

JazzVinyl said:


> If we have any Acoustic Bass aficionado's reading, may I suggest:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



drats, couldn't find the album on Tidal 

/sad


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 6, 2019)

Hey guys, some may have missed my post a few days ago. Pending anything unforeseen, I believe the newer GEL3N will be my next amp. I like its' described signature of being more solid state like,  ability to drive low-z cans well and even the mention of it being even more resolving than the GOTL - but someone correct me if I'm wrong? One of the headphones I'd like to drive are a planar @29 ohms and the other a somewhat power hungry new driver type @ 38ohms.

Also as I'm more familiar with OTL tube amps, what would one say is the main difference in performance / sound with an transformer coupled output? Am I right in assuming that tube rolling makes less of a difference since the tube is not the final output stage?


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 6, 2019)

Also @2359glenn I didn't get what you were saying about having a transformer made that can switch from 6AS7 to EL34 etc. but that it would have to be compromised with a "tap on the primary". And what about the idea of possibly having two separate transformers; one for 6AS7 _or 6336 (maybe better)_ and one for EL34 etc.? This may potentially open a lot of doors for the EL3N amp to drive more headphones and different sound signatures, while still being able to get the best sound of EL34, EL3N etc. tubes. Or even this as a custom request amp. Feel free to reply by PM if desired.

And I would be interested to know the full specs on the GEL3N amp such as the # of tube slots for driver / power and types accepted. thanks


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Also @2359glenn I didn't get what you were saying about having a transformer made that can switch from 6AS7 to EL34 etc. but that it would have to be compromised with a "tap on the primary". And what about the idea of possibly having two separate transformers; one for 6AS7 _or 6336 (maybe better)_ and one for EL34 etc.? This may potentially open a lot of doors for the EL3N amp to drive more headphones and different sound signatures, while still being able to get the best sound of EL34, EL3N etc. tubes. Or even this as a custom request amp. Feel free to reply by PM if desired.
> 
> And I would be interested to know the full specs on the GEL3N amp such as the # of tube slots for driver / power and types accepted. thanks



Two output transformers? How big and heavy do you want the amp to be. The Lundahl transformers are big heavy and expensive.
Better to sell those tubes to pay for the amp or use them in the FA amp.  The transformers cost more then the tubes.
In a transformer output amp the transformers have to be of the highest quality to sound great.

I can build a custom amp but the EL3N triode connected sounds as good as a 45 or 2A3 amp and they cost $20 each.
You can't beat that!!!


----------



## mordy

UsoppNoKami said:


> drats, couldn't find the album on Tidal
> 
> /sad


I found the album on YouTube but just type in Wood after the name (not Wood II)


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 6, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Peeps...
> 
> Been a warm summer, been busy with lots of outdoor projects.  Fired up the GOTL this evening, to make sure it still works
> 
> ...





UsoppNoKami said:


> drats, couldn't find the album on Tidal
> 
> /sad





mordy said:


> I found the album on YouTube but just type in Wood after the name (not Wood II)



It's on Spotify!



Listening now, Visseaux 6J5G, Cetron 6336B and the Auteur, good stuff @JazzVinyl 

The vibrato he generates on these complex passages is impressive, the callsuses on this guys fingers could probably deflect bullets.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Momentarily changing the topic...  Picked up a somewhat rare 5U4G. This one was manufactured by Ferranti, which was a British electronics company that operated for over a century, from 1885 until it went bankrupt in 1993.
> 
> Again, per Glenn, this can be used in the OTL with four or six 6BL7 / 6BX7, but it is not powerful enough to use with 6AS7-type output tubes. And of course, it is perfectly suitable for use in the GEL3N.
> 
> I am pleased to report that it lights up but haven't had a chance to audition it. Later this evening I hope....



Ken, how about the GEC U52? I can pick up this locally for $400 aussie dollars. Pins are tight so are the base. Tested very good. Potentially for use in the GEL3N. Worth it?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 6, 2019)

Not sure if there was any interest in these tubes when I posted them before, but I have done some A-Bing of the Visseaux 6J5G (shouldered) and 6J5MG (metal can).  I have the day off, so I will providing some thread filler for your viewing pleasure (or displeasure) 

Internals are identical per this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-–-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/page-214#post-12970528

Going back and forth, I would say the shouldered pair may have a 5-10% advantage over the metal can in staging and body, but it is a very small difference.  At around 2x the price for the shouldered, it is probably a small enough difference that the metal can version would satisfy.  They are both uncommon, but the metal cans seem to pop up more on eBay and at international shops.

These are both excellent drivers though, I would take them over some of the very best 6SN7s.

Still listening to JazzVinyl's bassist, love the opening rendition of Caravan and the Shining Star cover trio.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Ken, how about the GEC U52? I can pick up this locally for $400 aussie dollars. Pins are tight so are the base. Tested very good. Potentially for use in the GEL3N. Worth it?



"Worth it' is a difficult question to answer since the way each of us perceives sound is so subjective. But GEC rectifiers are among my favorites and many others have written glowing reviews of the U52, so I would say it is worth getting if the price is right.

400 Australian dollars is equal to about 271 US dollars. Checking eBay's sold listings for the last 30 days, this tube has sold for as little as US$173 to as much as US$458, but most have sold for around US$265. Assuming that the cost to ship within Australia is cheap, I would say that the one you found is worth it.


----------



## leftside

DecentLevi said:


> One of the headphones I'd like to drive are a planar @29 ohms and the other a somewhat power hungry new driver type @ 38ohms.


Should be able to drive most headphones well. It's using 3 Lundahl transformers. Chat with Glenn about the most suitable output impedance of the transformers for your headphones. I'm getting a very specific build, as a I already have "The Beast" (aka Glenn 300B) and I'm also getting a custom OTL amp built by a builder here in Canada.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> "Worth it' is a difficult question to answer since the way each of us perceives sound is so subjective. But GEC rectifiers are among my favorites and many others have written glowing reviews of the U52, so I would say it is worth getting if the price is right.
> 
> 400 Australian dollars is equal to about 271 US dollars. Checking eBay's sold listings for the last 30 days, this tube has sold for as little as US$173 to as much as US$458, but most have sold for around US$265. Assuming that the cost to ship within Australia is cheap, I would say that the one you found is worth it.



Brilliant. You're better than my financial adviser.  Shares were wiped out by almost 90 billions in the last 2 days so the consolation is to buy one nice tube. 

Yes, locally the postage plus insurance for the cost of the tube is only $16.90.


----------



## UntilThen

Deyan completed my adapters. Very nice ! Also bought 2 GEC L63 from Langrex to try out.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Aug 6, 2019)

leftside said:


> The 300B amp doesn't work so well with the Stellia though. The Stellia are too sensitive and noise is generated. The 300B is dead silent with the LCD4 (and 3) though.
> 
> If your company wants to move to the Cloud, I might be able to help, but I admit hardware electronics is not my day job. I've been trying to read what I can about matching amps to headphones and found this article useful:
> https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/
> ...



The rule of eighths is really for SS amplifiers.  With tubes you want the impedance to match closely otherwise you don't get power transfer.  On SS the relationship between load and source impedance is different and power transfer is not inhibited by the mismatch the way it is with tubes, so the focus there is on getting a good damping factor to prevent unexpected changes in frequency response.

If you have a 32 ohm headphone and your output transformer has a 32 ohm tap then you are all set.  This is why some commerical tube amps have a low and high impedance switch and use multi-tap OPTs, otherwise the high-Z headphones like the HD800 might not sound good on the amp. 

I can tell you my 600 ohm DT880s sound really bad on the 45 amp, which has a 16 ohm output impedance.  If the amp were SS it would not be an issue.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 8, 2019)

Another comparison I had hoped to make, the RFT 6SN7 to the RFT 6J5, a sort of direct 6SN7 to 6J5 comparison.  Output tubes have changed to Western Eletric 421A.

First, relative to the Visseaux 6J5G, the RFT 6J5 has a drier tone, a little brighter, less lush, but still musical and satisfying.  I think they are comparable when it comes to staging, resolve, dynamics.

Going from the RFT 6SN7 to the 6J5, there is a noticeable increase in soundstage and a bit more resolve.  The 6SN7 has a little more mid-bass energy compared to the 6J5, but otherwise they sound very similar tonally.  Hard to say which I prefer, probably the 6J5.  I do like the small increase in warmth 6SN7 adds, but it may be worth losing for better technicalities.

I have a third RFT 6J5 that is lower testing, haven't used it yet.  If it were to cause a channel imbalance, I might do some tube surgery to see if they maintain the same welded plates and ceramic spacers of the 6SN7.  As @mordy says, for science!


----------



## mordy

No no no.....
Old tubes are precious non-renewable resources. Only smash it if it is totally unusable!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 6, 2019)

mordy said:


> No no no.....
> Old tubes are precious non-renewable resources. Only smash it if it is totally unusable!



It does have a minor imbalance, but no issues otherwise, I might not have to get the hammer.


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> The rule of eighths is really for SS amplifiers.  With tubes you want the impedance to match closely otherwise you don't get power transfer.  On SS the relationship between load and source impedance is different and power transfer is not inhibited by the mismatch the way it is with tubes, so the focus there is on getting a good damping factor to prevent unexpected changes in frequency response.
> 
> If you have a 32 ohm headphone and your output transformer has a 32 ohm tap then you are all set.  This is why some commerical tube amps have a low and high impedance switch and use multi-tap OPTs, otherwise the high-Z headphones like the HD800 might not sound good on the amp.
> 
> I can tell you my 600 ohm DT880s sound really bad on the 45 amp, which has a 16 ohm output impedance.  If the amp were SS it would not be an issue.


Thanks for the additional info. The article I referenced at https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/ does also talk about tube amps:
"The load impedance of a pair of headphones also plays an important, and closely related, role in an amplifier’s distortion performance. The operating voltage and current (or *bias*) chosen for transistors or tubes in amplifiers is optimized by the designer for low impedance loads, high impedance loads, or a compromise of the two."

but did also state "Lots of opinions fly around, often contradictory". 

At the end of the day, I'm going to let the expert decide (i.e. Glenn) and if Glenn also says the output transformer should have a 32 ohm tap, then I'm going to go with that. Asking these questions has helped with my learning, so thanks again for the additional info.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

What?!  I thought one of my MOV L63 was broken, made barely a sound in my old amp, every other 6J5 I had worked flawlessly with the adapter.  Threw them in the GOTL in case there was some magic revival sauce in Glenn's amp...

THEY LIVE!!!  No idea what happened, awesome.  Jamming to Yves Tumor - _Safe In The Hands of Love_, killer album for those that like experimental electronic music.

Yeah, these things sound good...


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Aug 6, 2019)

leftside said:


> Thanks for the additional info. The article I referenced at https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/ does also talk about tube amps:
> "The load impedance of a pair of headphones also plays an important, and closely related, role in an amplifier’s distortion performance. The operating voltage and current (or *bias*) chosen for transistors or tubes in amplifiers is optimized by the designer for low impedance loads, high impedance loads, or a compromise of the two."
> 
> but did also state "Lots of opinions fly around, often contradictory".
> ...



I can tell you from experience that it's better to let Glenn decide than to tell him what you think you want.    Glenn's amps sound good for a reason, he'll steer you in the right direction.


----------



## 2359glenn

Has anyone tried the GEC A2293 with a dual A2293 to 6AS7 adapter.
They are 1/2 a 6AS7 and they are a GEC and cheep 15 Euro.


----------



## mordy (Aug 6, 2019)

leftside said:


> Thanks for the additional info. The article I referenced at https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/ does also talk about tube amps:
> "The load impedance of a pair of headphones also plays an important, and closely related, role in an amplifier’s distortion performance. The operating voltage and current (or *bias*) chosen for transistors or tubes in amplifiers is optimized by the designer for low impedance loads, high impedance loads, or a compromise of the two."
> 
> but did also state "Lots of opinions fly around, often contradictory".
> ...





2359glenn said:


> Has anyone tried the GEC A2293 with a dual A2293 to 6AS7 adapter.
> They are 1/2 a 6AS7 and they are a GEC and cheep 15 Euro.


I remember reading about the GEC A2293 on another forum - seems that they sound in between the GEC 6AS7G and the GEC 6080; whatever that means, but must mean they sound good.....
Looks like you need either four or eight of those tubes in the GOTL. 
Each one draws 0.95A - could not find the multiplication factor.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 6, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Has anyone tried the GEC A2293 with a dual A2293 to 6AS7 adapter.
> They are 1/2 a 6AS7 and they are a GEC and cheep 15 Euro.



Here are some impressions from the 6AS7G thread, Glenn.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-283#post-14663305

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-282#post-14633906

And the La Figaro 339 thread.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/la-figaro-339.502306/page-301#post-14849259

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/la-figaro-339.502306/page-301#post-14819384

From some other threads, some say they are very similar/hard to tell apart, others say they are slightly inferior to the GEC 6AS7G, more comparable to the GEC 6080.  I wonder what eight of them would sound like...

Only datasheet I can find on the web, pretty sparse.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here are some impressions from the 6AS7G thread, Glenn.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-283#post-14663305
> 
> ...



They only draw 1 amp each for the filament so it would be possible to use 12.
Adapters would start getting expensive at that point needing 6 of them.
Might sound great though wonder what @Deyan would charge for these adapters.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 6, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> They only draw 1 amp each for the filament so it would be possible to use 12.
> Adapters would start getting expensive at that point needing 6 of them.
> Might sound great though wonder what @Deyan would charge for these adapters.



If their site is accurate, Langrex has nearly 4,000 in stock at 12.50 GBP a pop.

They would also have to be pretty compact to fit six in the GOTL, @Deyan.



Here is the Chinese offering from eBay, excuse me while I go blind.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-G...646139?hash=item2f2379c67b:g:WisAAOSw2yVbtq1f


----------



## 2359glenn

Maybe diagonal they would fit.
I bet those little tubes get screaming HOT don't know about that plastic Chinese adapter


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 6, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Maybe diagonal they would fit.
> I bet those little tubes get screaming HOT don't know about that plastic Chinese adapter



I'm sure Deyan's solution would be 1000x more elegant AND functional.  Always interesting to hear about a new power tube option.  Who will try it first I wonder...

Could this be another good low-impedance headphone option, Glenn?


----------



## 2359glenn

Lets see what Deyan say about the adapters.
I would like to give my precious GEC 6AS7s a break for awhile.


----------



## mordy

Here is an adapter (configured for an eternal power supply) that we had made up for a FA amp:






2359glenn said:


> Lets see what Deyan say about the adapters.
> I would like to give my precious GEC 6AS7s a break for awhile.


Here is an adapter that we had made up for a FA amp (intended for an external power supply, but you get the idea):


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yep, I was responsible for getting this one made up...

It allowed 6x 6BL7 (or BX's) on the FA Elise amp.

Worked dandy, used an external 6.3 volt transformer to heat the BL's heaters.  I sold the adaptor and the 20 amp transformer to @DecentLevi, who was reporting using it, fairly recently..







mordy said:


> Here is an adapter (configured for an eternal power supply) that we had made up for a FA amp:


----------



## DecentLevi

Xcalibur255 said:


> (...)
> I can tell you my 600 ohm DT880s sound really bad on the 45 amp, which has a 16 ohm output impedance.  If the amp were SS it would not be an issue.



Was this in any way related to The GEL3N amp? I'm wondering if my HD 600 may not pair well with it, although I would usually be using it for lower impedance headphones


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 6, 2019)

Yup I rely on the 6x 6BL7 externally heated adapter for my Euforia, has withstood literally hundreds of tube rolling comparisons of many compatible classes and is a daily staple taking the amp to heights nobody would believe by words alone. I had a local amp designer take a look at the materials last year when considering to have a higher quality one designed for me and he said that's not even necessary seeing how it already used fairly good quality copper pins and something like silver on the PCB board. Of course it doesn't transform my amp to something like the WA33 but it does absolute wonders for improvements in the likes of soundstage, transient response, instrument separation, etc. The only minuscule gripe would be somehow it doesn't sound quite as 'direct' / front row as using tubes directly, which could be from materials used. Hundreds of Head-Fi'ers have had positive things to say after using Hong Kong adapters from the likes of seller Xuling so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their work based on country of manufacture. Provided exact specifications are given they should also be able to fabricate a 4x A2293 to 2x 6AS7 adapter, though they may have to make it with a PCB and I would recommend making it with point-to-point wiring instead.



vipervick said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am interested in an OTL build. I know nothing about them so far, but I was an Electronics Technician in the Navy for 20 years and a 2M Tech.


Hey this is a good member I've seen around for some years. Let's welcome him in and ask what he's got in mind.


----------



## Deyan

2359glenn said:


> They only draw 1 amp each for the filament so it would be possible to use 12.
> Adapters would start getting expensive at that point needing 6 of them.
> Might sound great though wonder what @Deyan would charge for these adapters.



Around 20-something dollars.


----------



## Deyan

And I can offset the octal plugs so they can fit.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 7, 2019)

Hey I would be interested to know if anyone on this forum has ever compared either a super GOTL or GEL3N amp to the sound of the Woo WA33? That is my reference amp for what's possible with tube amp performance and although I may not afford it that would be great to at least come close to its' sound.

Also which DACs are most people using with their Glenn amps? I'm still using a Modi Multibit coaxed along quite nicely by a USB interface and USB decrapifier as well, though the cost of a new DAC along with all these other goodies is a bit daunting.

Finally, any takers for the question about OTL vs. transformer coupled - does tube rolling make as much of a difference? Probably @gibosi has a few words


----------



## UntilThen

Paid for the GEC U52. That's my 1st tube purchase for the new amp from Glenn .... which I don't know what it is but it will eventuate.


----------



## mordy

Deyan said:


> And I can offset the octal plugs so they can fit.


How many tubes could fit in one row of the output tubes?


----------



## Deyan

mordy said:


> How many tubes could fit in one row of the output tubes?



Well 2. It will be a nightmare trying to make it a 2 row adapter. It's not impossible but I think it will cost about as much as 6 separate adapters. And what if they don't fit for 2 millimeters. Although the idea of a single 12 socket adapter seems quite appealing. Anybody willing to sponsor such a build.


----------



## Deyan

Only thing that worries me is the insertion and pull out force.


----------



## mordy

Deyan said:


> Only thing that worries me is the insertion and pull out force.


The six socket adapter that I have with two sets of socket pins goes in and comes out easily.


----------



## Deyan

But doesn't that one have only two bottom plugs.


----------



## Deyan (Aug 7, 2019)

mordy said:


> The six socket adapter that I have with two sets of socket pins goes in and comes out easily.



Now I see. The six sockets are in parallel. Well a single adapter seems not as far fetched as I thought at first. Only thing left is for @2359glenn to provide accurate spacing between two of the sockets.
I think an aluminum top plate will cope with the heat. And I'll know for sure if access to a cnc laser will be provided.

P. S. We are talking about an adapter with 12 tubes on top.


----------



## 2359glenn

The spacing is not all the same
Some amps have a rectifier tube and I have to put the two chokes on the side of the power transformer.
And with some upgrades I have to move the tubes one way or another to make certain capacitors fit.


----------



## 2359glenn

the three 6AS7 sockets on the right are all in parallel and the 3 on the Left are all in parallel.


----------



## Deyan

2359glenn said:


> the three 6AS7 sockets on the right are all in parallel and the 3 on the Left are all in parallel.



I understand that ( I found a picture of the amp inside ).
Well about the spacing it will have to be individually again nothing impossible. But let's see if anyone wants to invest in such a thing.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Deyan said:


> I understand that ( I found a picture of the amp inside ).
> Well about the spacing it will have to be individually again nothing impossible. But let's see if anyone wants to invest in such a thing.



I am curious, the idea of having an equivalent quartet or sextet of GEC 6AS7G in one amp is very intriguing.  But as a new GOTL owner, I have more tubes to listen to and enjoy than my brain can possibly digest.  If the project gets shelved, I would be interested in the near future.


----------



## Deyan

Since I really like the idea of it I went out of my way today and I believe I found an enclosure that could work. After Sunday I'll have metal cover sorted as well but it won't be aluminum ( they only have stainless steel ). The bad news is that the laser is broken and it's waiting for some parts or something. But I think I can do the holes without it. Everything else is standard.


----------



## Velozity

@2359glenn will there be enough space on my upcoming 4-tube GOTL to use a pair of A2293 adapters in my power sockets and a dual L63 adapter in my driver socket?  Can you provide the dimensions to @Deyan ?  Like you I would like to be able to give my GEC 6AS7G a break from time to time but still enjoy GEC sound.  But I also have six TS 7236 to use as backups if the adapters don't work out.


----------



## gibosi

DecentLevi said:


> Hey I would be interested to know if anyone on this forum has ever compared either a super GOTL or GEL3N amp to the sound of the Woo WA33? That is my reference amp for what's possible with tube amp performance and although I may not afford it that would be great to at least come close to its' sound.
> 
> Also which DACs are most people using with their Glenn amps? I'm still using a Modi Multibit coaxed along quite nicely by a USB interface and USB decrapifier as well, though the cost of a new DAC along with all these other goodies is a bit daunting.
> 
> Finally, any takers for the question about OTL vs. transformer coupled - does tube rolling make as much of a difference? Probably @gibosi has a few words



I do not own a transformer-coupled amp so I will have to defer to the experience of others. But keep in mind, compared to the GOTL, tube rolling in Glenn's 300B, 45 and EL3N, and also the Woo WA33 for that matter, is almost  nonexistent. You can roll different brands of each type, but that is just about it.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Deyan said:


> Since I really like the idea of it I went out of my way today and I believe I found an enclosure that could work. After Sunday I'll have metal cover sorted as well but it won't be aluminum ( they only have stainless steel ). The bad news is that the laser is broken and it's waiting for some parts or something. But I think I can do the holes without it. Everything else is standard.



Deyan, do you envision it with individual adapters, one per octal socket?  Here is my crude rendering of how I saw it in my mind with the A2293 mirrored.  Obviously you know best, just an idea I had.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Deyan, do you envision it with individual adapters, one per octal socket?  Here is my crude rendering of how I saw it in my mind with the A2293 mirrored.  Obviously you know best, just an idea I had.


Looks like six individual adapters. Would three quad adapters lower the price?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Looks like six individual adapters. Would three quad adapters lower the price?



I think the issue mordy is that the spacing between the sockets on Glenn's amps is not standardized since the layout changes based on the buyer's preferences (rectifier socket, C3g sockets, position of chokes, etc.), so the adapter would not be usable with multiple octal pins on the bottom across different amps all made by Glenn.  Unless Deyan somehow made the position of the octals on the bottom of the adapter adjustable.  A small difference in socket position of 1-2mm and the adapter would not fit.  The only way to be sure it works in all amps is to have individual adapters.  Please correct me if I am wrong, Deyan or Glenn.


----------



## Deyan

That was my initial idea. But the second one is a single adapter 12 to 2 adapter. I think it will be sleeker and cheaper to produce. The six separate will be something like 28$ each or around 170$. The single one should not exceed 120$.


----------



## Deyan

mordy said:


> Looks like six individual adapters. Would three quad adapters lower the price?



Well the two rows are in parallel so 3 adapters won't cut it. Either 1,2,4 or 6

I can make it in all configurations


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 7, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Yup I rely on the 6x 6BL7 externally heated adapter for my Euforia, has withstood literally hundreds of tube rolling comparisons of many compatible classes and is a daily staple taking the amp to heights nobody would believe by words alone. I had a local amp designer take a look at the materials last year when considering to have a higher quality one designed for me and he said that's not even necessary seeing how it already used fairly good quality copper pins and something like silver on the PCB board. Of course it doesn't transform my amp to something like the WA33 but it does absolute wonders for improvements in the likes of soundstage, transient response, instrument separation, etc. The only minuscule gripe would be somehow it doesn't sound quite as 'direct' / front row as using tubes directly, which could be from materials used. Hundreds of Head-Fi'ers have had positive things to say after using Hong Kong adapters from the likes of seller Xuling so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their work based on country of manufacture. Provided exact specifications are given they should also be able to fabricate a 4x A2293 to 2x 6AS7 adapter, though they may have to make it with a PCB and I would recommend making it with point-to-point wiring instead.



I do believe the "silver" you identified, is actually solder over the copper board traces, DL...

But I completely agree that the China adapters work just fine,   I very much doubt you, or anyone else, could reliably identify an adapter that uses a circuit board vs one that uses point to point wiring, in a true blind test.

I would also suggest that a small circuit board is a better bet for long term dependability.

Cheers!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Deyan said:


> That was my initial idea. But the second one is a single adapter 12 to 2 adapter. I think it will be sleeker and cheaper to produce. The six separate will be something like 28$ each or around 170$. The single one should not exceed 120$.



Sorry for all of the questions Deyan, but in a 12 to 2 adapter, will the two sockets on the bottom be somewhat adjustable to account for variations in the positions of the octal sockets for different amps?

If I am understanding correctly, another approach would be to do two 6 to 1 adapters, this way you would not have to worry about the positions of the two sockets on the amp being an issue.

Here is another rendering, they are getting worse as I go.


----------



## Deyan

2 adapters is a good idea I know. In the single adapter I think I can make a slider mechanism on one of the sockets and it will fit no matter what.


----------



## Deyan

All in all the final decision is up to the buyer.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Deyan said:


> 2 adapters is a good idea I know. In the single adapter I think I can make a slider mechanism on one of the sockets and it will fit no matter what.



Got it, very interesting.  For the adapter(s) and twelve tubes combined, looks like around a $320 USD commitment for whoever gives it a try, might be me in a few months.  A heck of a lot cheaper than four GEC 6AS7G!  And you get the equivalent of six, which the amp cannot normally take.  I wonder what this would do for low-impedance headphones in the GOTL.


----------



## Xcalibur255

DecentLevi said:


> Was this in any way related to The GEL3N amp? I'm wondering if my HD 600 may not pair well with it, although I would usually be using it for lower impedance headphones



It's related in that both are transformer coupled amplifiers with similar output impedance.  My experience should be directly relatable even though my amp uses 45 tubes instead of the EL3N, that's why I was sharing it.  I have found my amp only really likes headphones with double digit impedance.  Maybe the EL3N has better voltage swing than my 45 does and would do better.  We would have to defer to Glenn for the answer to that.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Aug 7, 2019)

If there is ample supply of these A2293 tubes available then maybe somebody would want to take the plunge and have an amp built that specifically uses these tubes?  Then they won't have an amp that's covered with adapters.  Very nice adapters no doubt, but still.......

If they sound the same as a GEC 6AS7 then it seems like a pretty safe investment to me.  If three were paralleled in each channel that would produce an output stage that's about halfway in-between what you get running two 6AS7 and four 6AS7 in the current Super OTL design as far as power ouput and output impedance goes.  Unless my logic is off here...?

Seems like a cool alt-design for the OTL to me.

edit:  My logic was definitely off on the power part, that wouldn't change since it is a parallel circuit.  The impedance is what would be changing.  My mostly uneducated guess would be around 35 ohms?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Visiting the following tube compliment in Glenn's GOTL:

Powers: 6x 6BX7 (yes BX not BL)
Driver Triplet: Harman Kardon 12AU7,  and pair of CV1052 (EL32's)

Very nice. Indeed!!

Nice amp, Glenn, and the many tube combinations avail to us high impedance headphone users 

Marc Johnson and Elaine Elias,  are very happy campers....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

A freak accident involving super glue has sent my Auteur back to Zach for some repairs.  So, I am getting reacquainted with my cherry Atticus in the meantime, haven't used them much with the GOTL yet.

I prefer them with the suede Eikon pads, they tame the mid-bass a little bit and open up the soundstage.  I gave them a fresh coat of guitar polish.  These ones have been exposed to the sun as well, I like how it darkens the cherry wood.  So far so good with the MOV L63 and Tung-Sol 6BX7.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> A freak accident involving super glue has sent my Auteur back to Zach for some repairs.



OMG!

Be careful with that Axe. Eugene...


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Got it, very interesting.  For the adapter(s) and twelve tubes combined, looks like around a $320 USD commitment for whoever gives it a try, might be me in a few months.  A heck of a lot cheaper than four GEC 6AS7G!  And you get the equivalent of six, which the amp cannot normally take.  I wonder what this would do for low-impedance headphones in the GOTL.



I would certainly think that would be great for Low Z cans.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> I would certainly think that would be great for Low Z cans.



I would be very curious to know what the output impedance would be with this setup.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 7, 2019)

I am finding what worked well with the Auteur may not mix as well with the Atticus.  As I was playing around, I threw in some Fivre tubes, which improved things quite a bit, so more Fivre was added, and I ended up with this setup: Fivre 6C5G in and Fivre 6BX7 out.  Really pleasing smooth midrange with these tubes.

By the way, I hope all my picture posts don't bother anyone, I am tied to my desk on my off days studying for graduate school.  Trying a new tube roll breaks up the work, and I like to take pictures.


----------



## Velozity (Aug 7, 2019)

For your daily listening pleasure, check out Jeff Kollman.  He's one of the best guitarists I've heard in a long time.  I just picked up these two albums (and a couple others).  The sound quality is phenomenal at 16bit-48kHz ripped lossless from disc.  My Eikon have never sounded better! 
...well they will when the GOTL comes, lol.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am finding what worked well with the Auteur may not mix as well with the Atticus.  As I was playing around, I threw in some Fivre tubes, which improved things quite a bit, so more Fivre was added, and I ended up with this setup: Fivre 6C5G in and Fivre 6BX7 out.  Really pleasing smooth midrange with these tubes.
> 
> By the way, I hope all my picture posts don't bother anyone, I am tied to my desk on my off days studying for graduate school.  Trying a new tube roll breaks up the work, and I like to take pictures.



Nice pictures of Glenn's amps are always welcome, especially with some interesting combinations.


----------



## whirlwind

Velozity said:


> For your daily listening pleasure, check out Jeff Kollman.  He's one of the best guitarists I've heard in a long time.  I just picked up these two albums (and a couple others).  The sound quality is phenomenal at 16bit-48kHz ripped lossless from disc.  My Eikon have never sounded better!
> ...well they will when the GOTL comes, lol.




The song Silence In The Corridor from the album that has the same name...is a tribute to Gary Moore....yes this guy can play!


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am finding what worked well with the Auteur may not mix as well with the Atticus.  As I was playing around, I threw in some Fivre tubes, which improved things quite a bit, so more Fivre was added, and I ended up with this setup: Fivre 6C5G in and Fivre 6BX7 out.  Really pleasing smooth midrange with these tubes.
> 
> By the way, I hope all my picture posts don't bother anyone, I am tied to my desk on my off days studying for graduate school.  Trying a new tube roll breaks up the work, and I like to take pictures.


Please continue posting pictures-always nice to see different tubes and combinations!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Thanks guys, in that case I will, I really like how they come out with the long exposure times, really makes the tube glow pop.


----------



## UntilThen

Those Fivre 6C5Gs are beautiful.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I would be very curious to know what the output impedance would be with this setup.



Should be under 35 ohms. And be able to drive most headphones.
I will have to check it when I get this.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Those Fivre 6C5Gs are beautiful.



I will be hooking pin 1 to ground those 6C5 have a internal shield and the metal 6J5s the metal outside is hooked to pin 1 for a shield.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I will be hooking pin 1 to ground those 6C5 have a internal shield and the metal 6J5s the metal outside is hooked to pin 1 for a shield.



Meaning I can't use those Fivre 6C5 with internal shield for the new amp? That's ok, those tubes are very hard to find anyway.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Meaning I can't use those Fivre 6C5 with internal shield for the new amp? That's ok, those tubes are very hard to find anyway.



Check out this beauty.  If only it had a mate (and wasn't so expensive).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-VINTA...793539?hash=item2ce96cf743:g:QiEAAOSwZtJW85pz


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> I will be hooking pin 1 to ground those 6C5 have a internal shield and the metal 6J5s the metal outside is hooked to pin 1 for a shield.



So question to @Deyan, is pin 1 left unconnected in the dual 6J5 adapter, or is it taken to ground in the 6SN7 base/socket?

@2359glenn If pin 1 unconnected, can pin 1 be connected to pin 8 at the 6C5 base (with wire)?


----------



## leftside

I've been using 6P5, 6J5 and 6C5 with Deyan's adapter.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks guys, in that case I will, I really like how they come out with the long exposure times, really makes the tube glow pop.



Didn't look like long exposures to me,  how long was the shutter open, LG?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> Didn't look like long exposures to me,  how long was the shutter open, LG?



8 seconds I believe at f11.  But the room was well-lit, the effect is more pronounced in the dark, I've done 30 second exposures then at high f-stops, oh the tube glow!


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> 8 seconds I believe at f11.  But the room was well-lit, the effect is more pronounced in the dark, I've done 30 second exposures then at high f-stops, oh the tube glow!



Nice, what is hour preferred camera brand (not that matters much...as all brands do well, these days).


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> So question to @Deyan, is pin 1 left unconnected in the dual 6J5 adapter, or is it taken to ground in the 6SN7 base/socket?
> 
> @2359glenn If pin 1 unconnected, can pin 1 be connected to pin 8 at the 6C5 base (with wire)?



Without a ground wire coming out of the adapter to be hooked to the chassis it would have to be hooked up to one of the cathodes.
The cathode resistor bypass capacitor would make a AC path to ground from the shield.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice, what is hour preferred camera brand (not that matters much...as all brands do well, these days).



Fujifilm!  Yes, they are all good, but I like the retro look and feel of their cameras, with actual knobs and dials, less searching through menus, etc.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> Without a ground wire coming out of the adapter to be hooked to the chassis it would have to be hooked up to one of the cathodes.
> The cathode resistor bypass capacitor would make a AC path to ground from the shield.



Thanks, Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

rnros said:


> So question to @Deyan, is pin 1 left unconnected in the dual 6J5 adapter, or is it taken to ground in the 6SN7 base/socket?
> 
> @2359glenn If pin 1 unconnected, can pin 1 be connected to pin 8 at the 6C5 base (with wire)?



He probably leaves it disconnected


----------



## DecentLevi

gibosi said:


> I do not own a transformer-coupled amp so I will have to defer to the experience of others. But keep in mind, compared to the GOTL, tube rolling in Glenn's 300B, 45 and EL3N, and also the Woo WA33 for that matter, is almost  nonexistent. You can roll different brands of each type, but that is just about it.


Thanks for your effort in answering. Even if my hi-z headphones such as HD-600 are underpowered on the new GEL3N, I'm still willing to take the risk since it seems my planned Rosson Audio Rad-0 planars and HEDDphone One have a good chance to pair well with it. And I'm willing to take the risk that maybe tube rolling in transformer-coupled amps may not make as large a difference as OTL amps. Unless anyone has another opinion? As long as the amp performs solid that may not matter. 

And for the _new_ GEL3N amp, I read here recently it's supposed to also work with EL34, EL38 and EL39 considering adapters. And possibly even more if I order custom specs. I'll ask Glenn about the compatible types and number of sockets, but feel free to post that here @2359glenn


----------



## Deyan

rnros said:


> So question to @Deyan, is pin 1 left unconnected in the dual 6J5 adapter, or is it taken to ground in the 6SN7 base/socket?
> 
> @2359glenn If pin 1 unconnected, can pin 1 be connected to pin 8 at the 6C5 base (with wire)?



Never crossed my mind.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks for your effort in answering. Even if my hi-z headphones such as HD-600 are underpowered on the new GEL3N, I'm still willing to take the risk since it seems my planned Rosson Audio Rad-0 planars and HEDDphone One have a good chance to pair well with it. And I'm willing to take the risk that maybe tube rolling in transformer-coupled amps may not make as large a difference as OTL amps. Unless anyone has another opinion? As long as the amp performs solid that may not matter.
> 
> And for the _new_ GEL3N amp, I read here recently it's supposed to also work with EL34, EL38 and EL39 considering adapters. And possibly even more if I order custom specs. I'll ask Glenn about the compatible types and number of sockets, but feel free to post that here @2359glenn



Under powered? You can drive speakers with it try and do that with your OTL.


----------



## UntilThen

So I bought these tubes from Langrex for the new amp and then Glenn told me he can get better sounding tubes for me at $4 each....

OK so no more buying tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks for your effort in answering. Even if my hi-z headphones such as HD-600 are underpowered on the new GEL3N, I'm still willing to take the risk since it seems my planned Rosson Audio Rad-0 planars and HEDDphone One have a good chance to pair well with it. And I'm willing to take the risk that maybe tube rolling in transformer-coupled amps may not make as large a difference as OTL amps. Unless anyone has another opinion? As long as the amp performs solid that may not matter.
> 
> And for the _new_ GEL3N amp, I read here recently it's supposed to also work with EL34, EL38 and EL39 considering adapters. And possibly even more if I order custom specs. I'll ask Glenn about the compatible types and number of sockets, but feel free to post that here @2359glenn




No worries, the amp will power most any headphone the HD-600 will certainly not be a problem.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 8, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> So I bought these tubes from Langrex for the new amp and then Glenn told me he can get better sounding tubes for me at $4 each....
> 
> OK so no more buying tubes.




Funny....I was looking at these same tubes. They are beam tetrode  tubes
Glenn says he like the sound of the pentodes better.


----------



## UntilThen

Give it a try Joe provided if Glenn says it's ok to use in your GEL3N with adapters. Nice looking tubes. It has to sound good.


----------



## whirlwind

If I understood Glenn correctly, which I may not have...lol

I can use all of these tubes as long as Deyan tied pins one and eight together on the adapter...which Deyan did do.

6K6G
6V6G
6L6G/5881
6F6G/KT63
KT77
EL34
EL35
EL37


----------



## UntilThen

Things are just about to get really interesting for you and your amp. Don't forget EL38 with adapter.


----------



## whirlwind

The EL34 is the tube I am most interested in trying for sure.

As far as the other tubes go, who knows how they will sound....they will have to sound damn good to beat the sound of the $25 EL3N tubes....maybe a different flavor though.


----------



## UntilThen

I already have a very good sounding amp in the OTL amp. It's vibrant, powerful and the bass impact is incredible with 6bx7s or 6bl7s. One and half years on, I'm still as captivated with the musicality of this amp. What would the Verite sound like on this amp. That I must find out for myself.

However, if you've been following this thread, you'll find that Glenn's pet love is the EL3N amp. He loves it. Says it's as good as the 45 or 2a3. I regretted not dropping by Sound Infinity's place last year for a listen on his beautiful EL3N amp. Here it is again.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> If I understood Glenn correctly, which I may not have...lol
> 
> I can use all of these tubes as long as Deyan tied pins one and eight together on the adapter...which Deyan did do.
> 
> ...


And another that is considered among the best: KT66. And also the much cheaper KT63.


----------



## Deyan

leftside said:


> And another that is considered among the best: KT66. And also the much cheaper KT63.



EL33, 6M6 and EL35 as well


----------



## Deyan

And don't forget EL37


----------



## Xcalibur255

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks for your effort in answering. Even if my hi-z headphones such as HD-600 are underpowered on the new GEL3N, I'm still willing to take the risk since it seems my planned Rosson Audio Rad-0 planars and HEDDphone One have a good chance to pair well with it.



I wouldn't equate an impedance mis-match issue with being underpowered.  That's not really apples to apples.  The amp will have plenty of power.  The article you mentioned previously touches on this subject in a number of ways actually.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I must be the only person around here who finds too much choice to be overwhelming........


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> And another that is considered among the best: KT66. And also the much cheaper KT63.



Did you notice that the tubes spoken of here are appearing in greater numbers on ebay?


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Did you notice that the tubes spoken of here are appearing in greater numbers on ebay?



That's a psychology subject.    They were always there, you just weren't taking notice until they were already on your mind.  In much the same way that you start noticing a certain type or color of car more often after you buy one of that type.


----------



## mordy

Big Brother (or Big Seller) is watching....
With all due respect to X255 I concur with UT, not to mention prices shooting up if something starts to sell.
And I think that you can add EL39 to the list.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> That's a psychology subject.    They were always there, you just weren't taking notice until they were already on your mind.  In much the same way that you start noticing a certain type or color of car more often after you buy one of that type.



Could have sworn that 2 days ago when I looked, there were hardly any KT66. Now there's matched pair of GEC KT66 and Philips MiniWatt KT66 and lots of NOS 5881.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Could have sworn that 2 days ago when I looked, there were hardly any KT66. Now there's matched pair of GEC KT66 and Philips MiniWatt KT66 and lots of NOS 5881.


I'm trying not to look. I'm meant to be on the wagon and avoiding eBay. Addict enablers the lot of you!  I wouldn't mind a nice pair of EL37 though...


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> So I bought these tubes from Langrex for the new amp and then Glenn told me he can get better sounding tubes for me at $4 each....
> 
> OK so no more buying tubes.



Maybe not better sounding a 6V6 is a good sounding tube


----------



## JazzVinyl

The EL32’s are outta there.  This wonderful combo sounds enthralling and engaging:

12au7 and half dozen 6BX7’s...

Cheers!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

And remember gents, only those hard to find 1963 special issue red base GEC 6BX7’s... sound any good....


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 8, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> And remember gents, only those hard to find 1963 special issue red base GEC 6BX7’s... sound any good....


 
eBay sellers are frantically checking their stock for these rare beauties, they can charge 3-4x market price now that they have surfaced on the 2359glenn studio thread.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Picture taken at my wife’s work, a couple if hours ago...

Were not in Kansas, anymore, ToTo...!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Batta BOOM batta Bing!!


----------



## mordy (Aug 8, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> And remember gents, only those hard to find 1963 special issue red base GEC 6BX7’s... sound any good....


Hi JV,
Maybe you could paint the bases on my GE 6BX7GT tubes red as well?
I thought the sand blasted dot code said 1958.....
PS: Beautiful pictures! Is the second one from NM?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> Maybe you could paint the bases on my GE 6BX7GT tubes red as well?
> I thought the sand blasted dot code said 1958.....
> PS: Beautiful pictures! Is the second one from NM?



Hello Mordy...

Painted bases on GE tubes would not be sonically equivalent to “special issue 1963 blood red based  GEC’s” now would  they?  

Both photos were within a few miles of my home in Colorado 

I have switched drivers to my 12SN7 Tung Sol BGRP and I gotta say, sounds pretty good.   

Joe said it best a good while back when he said there were a lot of great sounding 12SN7 tubes out there for cheap that the GOTL can deply that leaser amps cannot!!!

Cheerios, and Tally-Ho!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

OMG...listening to “Tactics”:

 

And its WAY scarier than that big honkin’ storm cloud!!

Momma, help me!


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 8, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> If I understood Glenn correctly, which I may not have...lol
> 
> I can use all of these tubes as long as Deyan tied pins one and eight together on the adapter...which Deyan did do.
> 
> ...





leftside said:


> And another that is considered among the best: KT66. And also the much cheaper KT63.





Deyan said:


> EL33, 6M6 and EL35 as well


Also EL38 and EL39 if I'm not mistaken... and if so then the EL11 and EL12 may work too (all with adapters). Glenn any others we missed?

Also RE EL37, not discounting it since I haven't tried it, but being directly familiar with EL 38 and 39 I have my suspicions that it can't outperform the EL39; all who've tried it on the Euforia anyway considering it in another league than the EL38 which is basically identical to the 37. A general consensus over there is that often the tubes with a top cap such as anode cap can yield better sonic performance.



Xcalibur255 said:


> I must be the only person around here who finds too much choice to be overwhelming........


It can seem overwhelming at first, but then it's a bit time demanding to switch tubes so often. It can take a very long time, but ultimately you settle on 2-3 top tube pairings, one for each genre or headphone.


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> top cap



DL, you know why some tubes deployed a top cap, right?

And gee whiz the almighty EL38 is displaced already in FA land?


----------



## mordy (Aug 9, 2019)

Hi DL,
One thing I learnt is that how a tube sounds depends on the amp (and ancillary equipment) that it is used in, and the synergy with other tubes in that amp. In other words, a tube that is nothing special in one amp could sound great in another amp, and vice versa.
Some tubes sound good in almost any amp, and others perform their best in specific amps only.
In my attempts to find the best combination of tubes I many times hit dead ends trying tube combinations that don't sound good at all, and it impresses me that some people always seem to find better and better sounding tubes.
I wish there were ways to predict how something is going to sound when trying uncharted tubes, but based on my limited knowledge, it is all trial and error.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Also EL38 and EL39 if I'm not mistaken... and if so then the EL11 and EL12 may work too (all with adapters). Glenn any others we missed?
> 
> Also RE EL37, not discounting it since I haven't tried it, but being directly familiar with EL 38 and 39 I have my suspicions that it can't outperform the EL39; all who've tried it on the Euforia anyway considering it in another league than the EL38 which is basically identical to the 37. A general consensus over there is that often the tubes with a top cap such as anode cap can yield better sonic performance.
> 
> ...



I still think the EL3N will sound beast then maybe the EL11 , EL3 , 6M6  I haven't tried the later 3 yet.
But I think the Philips EL3N sounds better then other brands like Tungsram that I have tried.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

After a long night's work, nice to kick back to some tunes with Glenn's beautiful amp and Zach's headphones, a perfect match.  Keeping things Fivre for a while, the Atticus has made a friend.  This time it is the Fivre 6N7G brown base with the Fivre 6BX7.  Very nice, characteristic Fivre midrange.  Reminds me a lot of my Fivre 6SN7 black plate brown base, will have to compare and tease out the differences.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


>



The 6N7G is a very special tube in Glenn's very special amp!

STOP telling everyone!!  I want them ALL to myself!

Bet it does sound superb!!!


----------



## mordy

Don’t tell anyone, but a National Union 6N7GT together with another two drivers in the C3g slots sounds great!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Don’t tell anyone, but a National Union 6N7GT together with another two drivers in the C3g slots sounds great!



Mordy, please loan me your NU 6N7GT, I would love to compare it to my NOS Visseaux 6N7GT...

Promise to return it, unharmed .


----------



## Xcalibur255

DecentLevi said:


> It can seem overwhelming at first, but then it's a bit time demanding to switch tubes so often. It can take a very long time, but ultimately you settle on 2-3 top tube pairings, one for each genre or headphone.



Haha, that's not quite what I meant by overwhelming.  I have plenty of experience rolling tubes.  It's just that too much choice is an OCD trigger for me.  You actually just described the primary reason why I don't enjoy tube rolling very much anymore.  Because at the end of the journey 90% of what you bought just sits in a box or bin and never gets touched again because it's not as good sounding as your favorites.  Some people enjoy the flavor switching, or the discovery journey enough to justify the money spent.  I personally don't anymore.  I'm looking for something very specific in terms of presentation for my music and I just want to find it and lock it in quickly and painlessly.  It never goes that way sadly.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

@mordy 

Can you please post a photo of your NU 6N7GT ?

.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I must be the only person around here who finds too much choice to be overwhelming........



Not the only person. I'm starting to feel that way. The next amp will have minimal tube rolling.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> @mordy
> 
> Can you please post a photo of your NU 6N7GT ?
> Sent you a PM.
> ...


----------



## JazzVinyl

PM sent Mordy!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Nice @mordy - wonder if the grey glass one is a TS re-badge?


----------



## Monsterzero

Long shot, but does anyone have any experience with the potato masher rectifier? 
My dac takes them and am trying to find out if the Chatham is the one to get, or another mfg.


----------



## JazzVinyl

@mordy:  From what I can see of the internal construction of that clear top NU 6N7GT, it appears to be identical to my Visseaux 6N7GT...

So, look forward to a side by side listening comparison.


----------



## Phantaminum

Xcalibur255 said:


> Haha, that's not quite what I meant by overwhelming.  I have plenty of experience rolling tubes.  It's just that too much choice is an OCD trigger for me.  You actually just described the primary reason why I don't enjoy tube rolling very much anymore.  Because at the end of the journey 90% of what you bought just sits in a box or bin and never gets touched again because it's not as good sounding as your favorites.  Some people enjoy the flavor switching, or the discovery journey enough to justify the money spent.  I personally don't anymore.  I'm looking for something very specific in terms of presentation for my music and I just want to find it and lock it in quickly and painlessly.  It never goes that way sadly.....



It's reasonable. Sometimes I don't want to go through the trouble of tube rolling for a specific headphone, other times I find myself tube rolling too much which never happened with a solid state amp. 

I will say that if you're looking for 3D, holographic tube sounding like amp, with great separation and body the ECP 3F is just fantastic. I'm borrowing the amp from another head-fier for a review. No tubes required. Really it's an amp that one you dial it in your headphones with earpads (like the Auteur/Verite) that's it. 

Now if it was cheaper than $2700. 

I do have a tube rolling addiction though and that's why Glenn's amp fits my current situation.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Long shot, but does anyone have any experience with the potato masher rectifier?
> My dac takes them and am trying to find out if the Chatham is the one to get, or another mfg.



While I am not positive, I am pretty sure that all the potato mashers were manufactured by Chatham. But of the 5R4 I much prefer the Brimar or the Philips (manufactured by La Radiotechique and often labeled Dario).


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice @mordy - wonder if the grey glass one is a TS re-badge?


I have RCA, Visseaux, NU, TS and Sylvania 6N7GT tubes. All have similar construction with round plates and "suitcase luggage straps" except for the Sylvania with X-plates.
Externally the gray glass RCA, TS and NU look very similar, but the plates are different in the NU, as well as the RF shield covering part of the TS and all of the NU (and RCA).
It is difficult to see the inside construction with the gray glass.
Since they all sound different I would think that each was manufactured by their respective manufacturer.
To me the NU sounds the best, followed by the Visseaux.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I have RCA, Visseaux, NU, TS and Sylvania 6N7GT tubes. All have similar construction with round plates and "suitcase luggage straps" except for the Sylvania with X-plates.
> Externally the gray glass RCA, TS and NU look very similar, but the plates are different in the NU, as well as the RF shield covering part of the TS and all of the NU (and RCA).
> It is difficult to see the inside construction with the gray glass.
> Since they all sound different I would think that each was manufactured by their respective manufacturer.
> To me the NU sounds the best, followed by the Visseaux.



Thanks!

Look forward to the audition!!


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Not the only person. I'm starting to feel that way. The next amp will have minimal tube rolling.


Hehe

Totally off-topic, but the English premiership has started today with Liverpool vs Norwich. ExpressVPN with Sky Now TV works great. Norwich were promoted from the division below (called the "Championship") as winners of that league - and they are playing with almost exactly the same team as last season! This is unheard of - usually the promoted teams spend big to attempt to compete. Goliath vs David. Ok, OT trivia over  Enjoy whatever sport you watch or play.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> The 6N7G is a very special tube in Glenn's very special amp!
> 
> STOP telling everyone!!  I want them ALL to myself!
> 
> Bet it does sound superb!!!





mordy said:


> Don’t tell anyone, but a National Union 6N7GT together with another two drivers in the C3g slots sounds great!



I have a little collection of 6N7 from my pre-GOTL hoarding, but I haven't gotten around to listening to them all yet.  I have both the National Union 6N7G clear glass and 6N7GT grey glass, maybe I will get to them tonight!  I have the weekend off 

Of the ones I have listened to, I really, really like the Radiotechnique (Visseaux) 6N7G, Mullard ECC31, and Fivre 6N7G.  I think the last one I have is an Arcturus with the cross-style mica spacers.

I popped in the Arcturus, pretty noisy, hopefully some Deoxit will help.


----------



## Monsterzero

You guys are killing me. I'm on day 6 with no headphones. My new DAC is still in the box. 
Ten more days to go.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have a little collection of 6N7 from my pre-GOTL hoarding, but I haven't gotten around to listening to them all yet.  I have both the National Union 6N7G clear glass and 6N7GT grey glass, maybe I will get to them tonight!  I have the weekend off
> 
> Of the ones I have listened to, I really, really like the Radiotechnique (Visseaux) 6N7G, Mullard ECC31, and Fivre 6N7G.  I think the last one I have is an Arcturus with the cross-style mica spacers.
> 
> I popped in the Arcturus, pretty noisy, hopefully some Deoxit will help.



What fun!   I have both G and GT versions of the Visseaux 6N7 and both are superb.  Also have some old Sylvania's marked as "GM" (General Motors) that sound pretty good (not as refined as the Visseaux's).

Never heard the Fivre flavor.

Mordy is sending the NU on loan...

We had some folks who had Mazda 6N7G's in the past, that liked them.

The FDD20 is basically a 12N7G (with pretty blue glass), also a very nice sounding tube (getting hard to source now).

I have ECC31's too, also good, but not the same sounding animal as the 6N7's...

Looking forward to hearing your roundup on these flavors.

Also...wish I had a nickel for every bad / noisy Arcturus tube I have ever owned!


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> You guys are killing me. I'm on day 6 with no headphones. My new DAC is still in the box.
> Ten more days to go.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> You guys are killing me. I'm on day 6 with no headphones. My new DAC is still in the box.
> Ten more days to go.



MZ - I will be happy sell you back the Sennheiser 6xx's you sold me


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> You guys are killing me. I'm on day 6 with no headphones. My new DAC is still in the box.
> Ten more days to go.



Be strong D, think of the sonic bliss that awaits you in your new audio cave.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

For those on a 6J5 bender (which might just be me), a tube I have had an eye out for has surfaced over at Langrex.  It bears a certain resemblance to a beloved 6SN7, can you guess which one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264424371406


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> MZ - I will be happy sell you back the Sennheiser 6xx's you sold me



LOL...im not missing any headphones. I just have all my systems torn down at the moment.
You need to get an HD250. Never again will you listen to the 6xx.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 9, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> LOL...im not missing any headphones. I just have all my systems torn down at the moment.
> You need to get an HD250. Never again will you listen to the 6xx.



I had the 250 Linear at one time, NOS purchase, I replaced the foam filters and added some ZMF Universe pads (the originals had disintegrated).

I ended up selling them when I simplified my collection, a small part of me now wishes I hadn't, would be very interested to see how they pair with the GOTL, I'm sure they sound excellent.

No doubt they are very good headphones, impressive soundstage for a closed-back and for the price.  My only complaint was I had a difficult time getting a good ear cup seal which affected the low-end response.

Oh, and with those ZMF pads, so comfortable and lightweight.

This was my pair: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sold-sennheiser-hd250-linear-600-ohm-with-extras-pads-cable.881018/


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I had the 250 Linear at one time, NOS purchase, I replaced the foam filters and added some ZMF Universe pads (the originals had disintegrated).
> 
> I ended up selling them when I simplified my collection, a small part of me now wishes I hadn't, would be very interested to see how they pair with the GOTL, I'm sure they sound excellent.
> 
> ...


Yeah I recall. I mentioned in my review that some owners were not able to get a good seal, which is unfortunate. Even with my glasses and using stock pads the bass response on my pair is insane. So deep.
The GOTL takes the HD 250 to ridiculous heights. 
IMHO they're the best headphone per price vs. performance I own


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah I recall. I mentioned in my review that some owners were not able to get a good seal, which is unfortunate. Even with my glasses and using stock pads the bass response on my pair is insane. So deep.
> The GOTL takes the HD 250 to ridiculous heights.
> IMHO they're the best headphone per price vs. performance I own



Yeah, the value proposition on them is crazy good.  Maybe I'll give them another shot someday if I come across a nice pair.  The seal thing might just be my bony head, maybe some different pads would help.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> You guys are killing me. I'm on day 6 with no headphones. My new DAC is still in the box.
> Ten more days to go.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


>



It wouldve been nice if you had informed me of your intentions to spy on me!


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yeah, the value proposition on them is crazy good.  Maybe I'll give them another shot someday if I come across a nice pair.  The seal thing might just be my bony head, maybe some different pads would help.


 I know @heliosphann has a pair for sale,which I was all set to scoop up(can never have too many HD250s) but in all fairness to Helio and you,getting this new DAC has set me up for more tube chasing,so there goes all my cash for the forseeable future.

If youre interested in getting another pair,hit him up. Just let me know if youre gonna re-sell it. I love the 250!


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Hehe



I was going for the dual L63 and EL34, 6L6, 6V6, KT66, 5881. Even started to scout around for those tubes then I realised I'm going down the same path I took with the OTL. Amassing lots of tubes before the amp arrival. So I said, OK not this time. It will be a clean cut, simple, no frills, not much rolling amp. Don't want to spend another year comparing tubes, instead of listening to music. 

So I check on the past reviews of the EL3N amp and I saw Jetl's impressions of the GEL3N again ...

Here they are:-

1st day impression when asked to compare the OTL vs EL3N amp:-
_With Code-X right now. There's no fight. The GEL3N is such an incredible, effortless, sweet sound. Great depth and soundstage too. 
Wow. I'm blown away.
_
2nd day:-
_Still can't remove the Code-X from my ears; such an incredibly airy, natural soundstage on the GEL3N. For a while there I thought I caught a minor 'flaw', but I swapped in the Hexfreds and now the bass is taut enough. Lose a bit of naturalness and decay compared to the 3dg4, but this is more my sound.
In Triode mode, I'm only at 9 o clock on the volume dial. My Code-X are pretty power hungry as far as cans go, and I can't imagine needing to go into Pentode but then of course my HE6 is there leering at me waiting to get its turn.

The density of tone in this amp is extremely nice. Vivid yet sweet is how I'd describe the sound. The separation and ability to resolve fast, complex passages on a dime is also very very good: pinpoint, crystal clear, yet not sharp or harsh at all.
_
Then they did something interesting, prompted by @Xcalibur255 question.....
_Glenn is there not enough gain or voltage swing available to try this as a single stage design?  Would be cheaper and even better sounding with fewer parts if it could be pulled off.  The best coupling cap is no coupling cap at all.
_
And so it evolve. To be continued...


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> till can't remove the Code-X from my ears



Thats the modded HE-6?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> I know @heliosphann has a pair for sale,which I was all set to scoop up(can never have too many HD250s) but in all fairness to Helio and you,getting this new DAC has set me up for more tube chasing,so there goes all my cash for the forseeable future.
> 
> If youre interested in getting another pair,hit him up. Just let me know if youre gonna re-sell it. I love the 250!



For sure I will, thanks D.  But something to look forward to I think, the GOTL and the tube hoarding madness I fell into has put me up against my hobby budget, so I am off the gear buying train for a little while, except for a tube here and there 

My next big purchase will likely be the Vérité open or closed early next year.  If I make it to ZMFestivus, I'll make my decision then.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> LOL...im not missing any headphones. I just have all my systems torn down at the moment.
> You need to get an HD250. Never again will you listen to the 6xx.



I don’t listen to the 6xx’s now, as I find my well worn, decades old, HD580’s smokes ‘em.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I was going for the dual L63 and EL34, 6L6, 6V6, KT66, 5881. Even started to scout around for those tubes then I realised I'm going down the same path I took with the OTL. Amassing lots of tubes before the amp arrival. So I said, OK not this time. It will be a clean cut, simple, no frills, not much rolling amp. Don't want to spend another year comparing tubes, instead of listening to music.
> 
> So I check on the past reviews of the EL3N amp and I saw Jetl's impressions of the GEL3N again ...



Its real easy NOT to tube roll the GOTL.  Just takes will power.  

When I have asked an owner of both amps if one was superior to the other, the answer i got was an emphatic “no, both are great amps”, he did not prefer one over the other.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Thats the modded HE-6?



I don’t know. I have no idea what’s a Code-X


----------



## UntilThen

I wasn’t very sure what one stage means but this just came through from Glenn. He calls it one tube mode.

_All EL3Ns and yes when on one tube mode the audio bypasses the front two drivers and goes straight to
the outputs through the volume control. When in this mode there is no coupling capacitors in the signal path.
The amp is dead silent in this mode just less gain. It still can drive most any headphone but the volume has to
get turned almost all the way up. This also gets the volume control out of the circuit if it is turned all the way up.
Ask Joe about one tube mode he will tell you how it sounds

I love the sound of these tubes._


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I've moved on from the Atticus to the HD650, which means I am no longer tied to the Fivre tubes.

Ever heard of these Bendix 6080WB tubes?  They aren't too shabby.  All these metal bases makes me think I should be listening to metal...instead I'm listening to Kate Bush.

Think I'll do some System Of A Down next.  I am no metal aficionado, but I grew up when nu-metal was coming into prominence, some of these bands still get me amped (no pun intended).


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 9, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Its real easy NOT to tube roll the GOTL.  Just takes will power.
> 
> When I have asked an owner of both amps if one was superior to the other, the answer i got was an emphatic “no, both are great amps”, he did not prefer one over the other.



I don't tube roll I have a very old OTL that I built 12 years ago it has 5 tube sockets one for the rectifier and four for aubio.
Have a Russian 5U8C for the rectifier cant use any other rectifier or the large filter capacitors will blow it up. And it has a crazy
Russian socket.  Two 6J5/L63 and two GEC 6AS7s.
The only rolling I do is with EL3N to 6J5 when I want a wormier sound.  Deyan made me some nice EL3N to 6J5 adapters.
All the chokes are for DC filaments on all tubes I hate any hum or noise. 

I no longer have that ugly gold Audio Note knob for the volume


----------



## UntilThen

The OTL is beautifully implemented and sounds amazing with my hd800.

I’m glad wazzupi sold it to you. You’re doing it a lot more justice.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I don’t know. I have no idea what’s a Code-X



No. Thats the modded HE-5. Modded HE-6 is Code-Sex


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've moved on from the Atticus to the HD650, which means I am no longer tied to the Fivre tubes.
> 
> Ever heard of these Bendix 6080WB tubes?  They aren't too shabby.  All these metal bases makes me think I should be listening to metal...instead I'm listening to Kate Bush.
> 
> Think I'll do some System Of A Down next.  I am no metal aficionado, but I grew up when nu-metal was coming into prominence, some of these bands still get me amped (no pun intended).



By the way LG,

What headphones are you currently pairing up with the GOTL?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 9, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> By the way LG,
> 
> What headphones are you currently pairing up with the GOTL?



My main headphone is my beautiful cocobolo Auteur with the magnesium chassis.  But it has been sent to Zach for some minor repairs.

So right now I have my cherry Atticus and HD650 until they come back.  I recently downsized my collection, so only three major full-sized headphones in rotation.  I also have a pair of Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pros floating around, but they are technically my girlfriend's, she wouldn't let me sell them!  They actually sound pretty darn good on the GOTL.

The Atticus and HD650 are doing the job and doing it well, but man, I miss my Auteur already...


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 9, 2019)

Glenn - I could not help myself, against your advice, I put a pair of Tung-Sol 7802 in the GOTL...

I don't know man, I think these sound REALLY good!  Maybe it is just my personal taste.  A little bright, but so dynamic and resolving.

Do you really think they will be destroyed and over current with the 250 ohm cathode bias resistors?  I am mistaken reading the data sheets that the 6336B also are supposed to have a 500 ohm resistor?

This pic came out especially well.  15 second exposure in a dark room at f8.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> No. Thats the modded HE-5. Modded HE-6 is Code-Sex



Very interesting names. Is there a Code-Red? 

Don't think I'll expand my headphones of HD800, LCD-3f and the incoming Verite.


----------



## 2359glenn

Do they seem to be getting unreasonably Hot? When I tried them they did you could smell how hot they were getting.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 9, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Do they seem to be getting unreasonably Hot? When I tried them they did you could smell how hot they were getting.



I don't think so, not any hotter than 6080s, which get quite hot.  I threw in a pair of Mullard 6080, let them warm up for 6-7 minutes, did a very scientific "finger tap test", then did the same for the 7802.  I actually think the 7802 were a little cooler over the same amount of time.  I need an infrared thermometer...I will get one tomorrow.

Envelope temp is rated up to 200C.  If these end up being too hot to use, it might break my heart.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Not the only person. I'm starting to feel that way. The next amp will have minimal tube rolling.



Just make sure you don't back yourself into a corner where you have NO options.  This is basically what I did with my 45 and I have some regrets about it.  If I could go back in time I would have asked Glenn to use 6SN7s in the driver stage instead of the C3g.  Maybe it would be a touch less transparent, but there would be far more tuning options to dial in the tone.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Aug 9, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> It's reasonable. Sometimes I don't want to go through the trouble of tube rolling for a specific headphone, other times I find myself tube rolling too much which never happened with a solid state amp.
> 
> I will say that if you're looking for 3D, holographic tube sounding like amp, with great separation and body the ECP 3F is just fantastic. I'm borrowing the amp from another head-fier for a review. No tubes required. Really it's an amp that one you dial it in your headphones with earpads (like the Auteur/Verite) that's it.
> 
> ...



The truth of my situation that I'm very slowly coming to grips with is that there probably is no amp, headphone or speaker out there that will work for me anymore.  I had something......shall we say.......... bad happen to my ears last year.  Enough time has passed that I don't think it's ever going to get better now.  Outside of very low volume levels pretty much everything I listen to sounds awful to me now.  If I had to describe it, it's like the music is being screamed at me through a metal trash can being used as a megaphone.

Music was my ONLY source of joy in life....... so I haven't had a great time dealing with it.

This is probably too personal to be airing on the forum like this.... guess I'm in a weird mood tonight.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Then they did something interesting, prompted by @Xcalibur255 question.....
> _Glenn is there not enough gain or voltage swing available to try this as a single stage design?  Would be cheaper and even better sounding with fewer parts if it could be pulled off.  The best coupling cap is no coupling cap at all.
> _
> And so it evolve. To be continued...



I still believe very strongly that the ultimate amp build would be a single gain stage EML 20 or 30 with Amorphous core OPTs.  It might not be the very last word in dynamics, but it could very well be the last word in just about everything else.  I've never heard the tubes so this is all based on thin air really, it's just a strong gut feeling of mine.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Just make sure you don't back yourself into a corner where you have NO options.  This is basically what I did with my 45 and I have some regrets about it.  If I could go back in time I would have asked Glenn to use 6SN7s in the driver stage instead of the C3g.  Maybe it would be a touch less transparent, but there would be far more tuning options to dial in the tone.



I will count on tube rectifiers for tuning options and when I am bored, will get one of Deyan's adapter and stick in my Fivre 6v6g. 

Will get a EL3N driving EL3N amp in a large chassis in black, with pre-amp out and 3 sets of RCA inputs and Deuland's caps and Gold Point 47 steps attenuator and Gold Point switch for one and two stage and lastly it will have 2 round VU meters for some blink - the last is optional if Glenn tells me I'm crazy.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> The truth of my situation that I'm very slowly coming to grips with is that there probably is no amp, headphone or speaker out there that will work for me anymore.  I had something......shall we say.......... bad happen to my ears last year.  Enough time has passed that I don't think it's ever going to get better now.  Outside of very low volume levels pretty much everything I listen to sounds awful to me now.  If I had to describe it, it's like the music is being screamed at me through a metal trash can being used as a megaphone.
> 
> Music was my ONLY source of joy in life....... so I haven't had a great time dealing with it.
> 
> This is probably too personal to be airing on the forum like this.... guess I'm in a weird mood tonight.



I'm very sorry to hear this. I hope it will pass and your hearing will be restored.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I will count on tube rectifiers for tuning options and when I am bored, will get one of Deyan's adapter and stick in my Fivre 6v6g.
> 
> Will get a EL3N driving EL3N amp in a large chassis in black, with pre-amp out and 3 sets of RCA inputs and Deuland's caps and Gold Point 47 steps attenuator and Gold Point switch for one and two stage and lastly it will have 2 round VU meters for some blink - the last is optional if Glenn tells me I'm crazy.



I don't think Glenn is recommending the Duelands anymore, Matt.  He had one leak oil inside a 300B.  Maybe some Jupiter caps.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I don't think Glenn is recommending the Duelands anymore, Matt.  He had one leak oil inside a 300B.  Maybe some Jupiter caps.



Ok that will save some money haha because Jupiter is cheaper.


----------



## UntilThen

And if Deyan can make me EL11 to EL3N adapters, I can stick in the EL11s in the drivers position. So that's a lot fo tuning options - if necessary.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Haha...

That is hardly _any_ tuning options!

You roll tubes like an octopus, your 8 arms all a blur

I can’t imagine “the new Matt”


----------



## heliosphann

Just fair warning, I'm bidding on those GEC 6AS7G's. Stay out of my way or else!!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> Just fair warning, I'm bidding on those GEC 6AS7G's. Stay out of my way or else!!!



Looks like a nice pair.  Good luck!!


----------



## attmci

heliosphann said:


> Just fair warning, I'm bidding on those GEC 6AS7G's. Stay out of my way or else!!!


R u h***n(427)? I am 0***0(20). I will stop there. JK

Too expensive for a used pair.


----------



## heliosphann

attmci said:


> R u h***n(427)? I am 0***0(20). I will stop there. JK
> 
> Too expensive for a used pair.



Yea... They're getting close to my cut off but damn, they're so hard to find these days.


----------



## attmci

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-1-NOS-...908&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982

I am bidding on this. Anyone bids more than $50 could  *serious consequences.  *


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Just fair warning, I'm bidding on those GEC 6AS7G's. Stay out of my way or else!!!



I’ve moved on from GEC 6as7g so it’s all yours but do not touch that Mullard GZ34 or it will be rainy days for you.


----------



## Deyan

UntilThen said:


> And if Deyan can make me EL11 to EL3N adapters, I can stick in the EL11s in the drivers position. So that's a lot fo tuning options - if necessary.



There is no reason that I can't.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 10, 2019)

Wow guys so interesting. Page 1893 has quite some things I've never heard pf over the years. Senn. HD-250 and 580. I've tried the 280, 380, 579 which was a standout, 598, 600, 650, 660 S which was a major disappointment, and a few higher. Mainly I'm using the 380 for good closed 'cans and the 600 with an upgraded silver cable for good linear / punchy openbacks.

UT mentioned a user swapped 'Hexfreds' on the GEL3N amp. Was he rolling an op-amp?

Also that's interesting that the sound of the EL3N's can be described as airy, sweet, clear, punchy, etc. on the GEL3N amp - no doubt due to the prowesss of the amp itself and proper implementation, because on the Elise & Eforia with adapters anyway, they sounded the opposite - lush, slow, fairly dark yet still a great tone as if they have a lot of potential... One thing they always did great though was soundstage.



2359glenn said:


> I still think the EL3N will sound beast then maybe the EL11 , EL3 , 6M6  I haven't tried the later 3 yet.
> But I think the Philips EL3N sounds better then other brands like Tungsram that I have tried.


I have 6 Philips EL3N spurred on by UT's proclaim of them on the F.A. threads back in 2016. Those were the most readily available and perhaps cheapest, as well. I do wonder however if a GEL3N with 6x slots for EL3N (or 6x EL34 etc.) would yield even better resolution? In every case without fail I've always gotten better sound from 8x tubes with my adapted Euforia than 4-6x. (improved transient response, instrument separation, soundstage, bass definition, etc. depending on synergy of course with both tubes and headphones). Maybe 6x. EL3N + 2x rectifier or driver tubes as well.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> UT mentioned a user swapped 'Hexfreds' on the GEL3N amp. Was he rolling an op-amp?
> 
> Also that's interesting that the sound of the EL3N's can be described as airy, sweet, clear, punchy, etc. on the GEL3N amp - no doubt due to the prowesss of the amp itself and proper implementation, because on the Elise & Eforia with adapters anyway, they sounded the opposite - lush, slow, fairly dark yet still a great tone as if they have a lot of potential... One thing they always did great though was soundstage.



It's not an op-amp. Glenn can make hexfred as a plug in into the rectifier socket.

EL3N in the transformer coupled amp will be nothing like what we've heard on Elise with 6 x EL3N. Which is why I wanted to try it.


----------



## UntilThen

Deyan said:


> There is no reason that I can't.



That would be good. I have a NOS pair of Telefunken EL11 in tip top condition that I want to swap in from time to time. Telefunken EL11 have a distinctly brighter and clearer tone compared to the Philips Miniwatt EL3N.


----------



## heliosphann

DecentLevi said:


> Wow guys so interesting. Page 1893 has quite some things I've never heard pf over the years. Senn. HD-250 and 580. I've tried the 280, 380, 579 which was a standout, 598, 600, 650, 660 S which was a major disappointment, and a few higher. Mainly I'm using the 380 for good closed 'cans and the 600 with an upgraded silver cable for good linear / punchy openbacks.
> 
> UT mentioned a user swapped 'Hexfreds' on the GEL3N amp. Was he rolling an op-amp?
> 
> ...



660s polarization still going strong!


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> I have 6 Philips EL3N spurred on by UT's proclaim of them on the F.A. threads back in 2016. Those were the most readily available and perhaps cheapest, as well. I do wonder however if a GEL3N with 6x slots for EL3N (or 6x EL34 etc.) would yield even better resolution? In every case without fail I've always gotten better sound from 8x tubes with my adapted Euforia than 4-6x. (improved transient response, instrument separation, soundstage, bass definition, etc. depending on synergy of course with both tubes and headphones). Maybe 6x. EL3N + 2x rectifier or driver tubes as well.



Going to defer to Glenn to answer this. The merits of using quad EL3N for power tubes compared to using 2. In the current implementation the transformer coupled GEL3N amp outputs between 1.5 to 2 watts which is more than enough to drive most headphones.

The beauty of using EL3N is that there's still good healthy supply of NOS tubes. When I spoke to Peter of Acoustics Dimension 6 months ago, he told me he still have lots of tubes in original Philip Miniwatt boxes and they are still very cheap by today's standard. 25 euro each.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 10, 2019)

Deyan said:


> There is no reason that I can't.



EL3N driving EL11. Wouldn’t that be interesting.

Also Glenn, can c3g be used as drivers in GEL3N amp with adapters?

And another question. Can EL12 be used in the power slots with adapters? EL12 is the equivalent of EL6 which Sam has tried in the GEL3N amp.


----------



## UntilThen

I think it’s starting to be overwhelming again.


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> I must be the only person around here who finds too much choice to be overwhelming........




Hi Tyrell,

I understand completely where you are coming from. I love to roll tubes to change up the tone a little.....but at times you just come home and want to sit down with a beverage and just enjoy the music.

Once you have gone through the tubes and find your favorites, then you can just roll once a month or so to change up the sound a little.

If you have a lot of tubes and just roll them constantly, it can be very fun...but eventually it can get to be like a dog chasing his tail.

I hope your hearing problems clear up so you can once again enjoy your music. I would be a lost soul without my music.

I wish you the best.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 10, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I wasn’t very sure what one stage means but this just came through from Glenn. He calls it one tube mode.
> 
> _All EL3Ns and yes when on one tube mode the audio bypasses the front two drivers and goes straight to
> the outputs through the volume control. When in this mode there is no coupling capacitors in the signal path.
> ...




Matt, two tube mode adds tons of dynamics, staging, resolution....the slam is off the hook.
One tube mode gives you the blackest of black back rounds....as Glenn mentioned, less gain.
When I owned my Grado RS1, I loved it in one tube mode, so clear and transparent...more so than the HD800 in this department.

Just as Glenn says, in one tube mode you can crank the volume control just about all the way up or even all the way if in the mood and the volume pot is out of the circuit
the signal path is nice and clean. Just to get crazy i have used my GS-X mk2 as a pre-amp for one tube mode.....great stuff!

Two tube mode the back round is not as black, but everything gets kicked up 2x to 3x...seriously, it is a wonderful experience.

The amp powers 300 ohm dynamics and planar headphones equally  and I can't imagine that there are too many headphones that it will not power.
I know @SoundTrooper uses his Abyss with it and loves it.

As I am sitting here listening to Calvin Russell it with and the LCD-3 ...I am wondering to myself why I want to even try other tubes in this amp to be honest....I guess just because I can  
To be perfectly honest I am not expecting anything to sound better than the EL3N tubes...but who knows....Glenn used EL3N tubes as driver and powers for harmonic distortion.
I bought the adapters so I will try different tubes.

Many people have asked what amp that I like best...but that depends on music, headphones ect.  I do not need three amps, but I use them all and don't want to part with any.
I will say that I use the GEL3N amp the most, so maybe that is my favorite....if my wife made me keep just one...then I guess i would pick it.

In the larger chassis Glenn can get in everything you would need for it to power speakers, my amp is for headphones only and the chassis is the exact same size as the GOTL chassis.
Here is a pics of all the amps to compare size wise.


Same size as GOTL....not as long as GS-X mk2 but about 4 inches deeper and weighs about 6X more, lol.
I can only imagine how much the larger chassis with the extra guts weighs....but it would be beastly!


Here is the amp using a 4 volt version of the rectifier you just bought...GEC U52
The volume control is between 9 and 10 0'clock in two tube mode here, with the LCD-3....it would be about same position with ZMF Atticus
With the LCD 3 I some times play it way too loud....maybe 12 O'clock....very loud but man the dynamics and impact are killer.

 

I can not imagine that you would not love the amp...but who knows everyone is different.

Some Calvin Russell for your listening pleasure.


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Yea... They're getting close to my cut off but damn, they're so hard to find these days.



But damm they sound good


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> EL3N driving EL11. Wouldn’t that be interesting.
> 
> Also Glenn, can c3g be used as drivers in GEL3N amp with adapters?
> 
> And another question. Can EL12 be used in the power slots with adapters? EL12 is the equivalent of EL6 which Sam has tried in the GEL3N amp.



These tubes can be used no problem.
The question is what sockets do you want side pin or octal????
How many side pin tube bases does Deyan have??
It is easy to make octal to most any other  tube socket bur as far as I know only Deyan has side pin bases.
This is why I originally said there was no tube rolling in this amp I did try the EL8 and didn't like it to much.
But the amp looks best with the side contact sockets and EL3N with red skirts.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> In the larger chassis Glenn can get in everything you would need for it to power speakers



Thanks Joe for sharing. The EL3N amp is still a well kept secret. Only a handful have heard it. I intend to get on board with this. I won't need it for speakers. I have my Sansui and Redgum amps for that. However I want to get pre-amp for it and multiple inputs for it so that I can connect my turntable, dac and CD player to it.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> These tubes can be used no problem.
> The question is what sockets do you want side pin or octal????
> How many side pin tube bases does Deyan have??
> It is easy to make octal to most any other  tube socket bur as far as I know only Deyan has side pin bases.
> ...



It's good to know that it can be adapted for the German EL11, EL12 steel octal pins tubes using adapters from Deyan but I'll be mainly using it with EL3N tubes.

Fully agree that the amp looks great with the Philips Miniwatt EL3N tubes and Yamamoto's socket plus the Lundahl transformers. Now all there is to do is to hear and experience it.... all in good time when my amp's built


----------



## 2359glenn

If you are not going to have speaker outputs there is no need for the larger chassis unless you like the way it looks.
The larger chassis with speaker outputs is for the large switch that is needed to switch impedance.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It's good to know that it can be adapted for the German EL11, EL12 steel octal pins tubes using adapters from Deyan but I'll be mainly using it with EL3N tubes.
> 
> Fully agree that the amp looks great with the Philips Miniwatt EL3N tubes and Yamamoto's socket plus the Lundahl transformers. Now all there is to do is to hear and experience it.... all in good time when my amp's built


'
You better ask Deyan if he can make a EL11 to EL3N adapter?


----------



## UntilThen

Totally love the way the black large chassis looks.     Post #28337


----------



## UntilThen

Mr Deyan, can you make beautiful looking EL11 to EL3N adapters because I’ve a pair each of the most minty looking Telefunken EL11 and Siemens EL12.

Plus a pair of the most gorgeous and new looking Telefunken EL12 apez.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Matt, two tube mode adds tons of dynamics, staging, resolution....the slam is off the hook.
> One tube mode gives you the blackest of black back rounds....as Glenn mentioned, less gain.
> When I owned my Grado RS1, I loved it in one tube mode, so clear and transparent...more so than the HD800 in this department.
> 
> ...



Joe - can you safely switch between 1 and 2 tube mode while the amp is playing music? (making sure, of course, volume knob in safe / low position)
Also, I see 2 smaller knobs (left and right of volume knob). Which is for 1/2 tube mode? what is the other - input select?


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Joe - can you safely switch between 1 and 2 tube mode while the amp is playing music? (making sure, of course, volume knob in safe / low position)
> Also, I see 2 smaller knobs (left and right of volume knob). Which is for 1/2 tube mode? what is the other - input select?




Yes you can, Glenn even has it to where you can not even hear a click or any noise when switching.
Switching from two tube to one tube is not a problem...switching from one tube to two tube, you must be on your game or blow out an ear drum.

Yes, one/two tube mode and input selector for the other knobs.


----------



## 2359glenn

Cool it makes it easier for me but more money that chassis is made in USA and costs me $250
 I had a problem getting the heat sink that I use for the filament rectifiers The replacement ones I got are large.
I do run all filaments on this amp on DC to to reduce any hum pickup inside the tubes.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> I do run all filaments on this amp on DC to to reduce any hum pickup inside the tubes.



Nice. Thought I saw you mention that before but wasn't sure.


----------



## Deyan

UntilThen said:


> Mr Deyan, can you make beautiful looking EL11 to EL3N adapters because I’ve a pair each of the most minty looking Telefunken EL11 and Siemens EL12.
> 
> Plus a pair of the most gorgeous and new looking Telefunken EL12 apez.



Yes I can. But the EL12spez requires a different adapter.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 10, 2019)

Alright @2359glenn , have some temperature measurements for you on the NOS Mullard 6080 vs. Tung-Sol 7802.

IR thermometer aimed at the same spot on both tubes about 1 inch away, center of glass envelope after temperature has plateaued.  These are the maximum temperatures on the hottest points on the glass, the top of the tubes and the bases are 50-100C cooler.

Mullard 6080
Tube 1: 233C
Tube 2: 230C

Tung-Sol 7802
Tube 1: 210C
Tube 2: 208C

Chassis between tubes: 50C

So as I expected, the Mullard 6080 are actually getting hotter than the Tung-Sol 7802, but they are both exceeding 200C.

What do you think?  If the 6080 are getting that hot, I would think they would be at the same or greater risk than the 7802.  Is heat the biggest issue with these tubes being run over current?

Edit: Just did the GEC 6080WA as well.

Tube 1: 226C
Tube 2: 224C


----------



## 2359glenn

Hummm  must be they are OK to use they can go to 300deg C pretty dam hot.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Alright @2359glenn , have some temperature measurements for you on the NOS Mullard 6080 vs. Tung-Sol 7802.
> 
> IR thermometer aimed at the same spot on both tubes about 1 inch away, center of glass envelope after temperature has plateaued.  These are the maximum temperatures on the hottest points on the glass, the top of the tubes and the bases are 50-100C cooler.
> 
> ...





2359glenn said:


> Hummm  must be they are OK to use they can go to 300deg C pretty dam hot.


well Schiit. Now I have to resume the hunt for them.
So any detailed sound thoughts, other than they're bright Ish?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Hummm  must be they are OK to use they can go to 300deg C pretty dam hot.



Then they stay!!! Thanks, Glenn.



Monsterzero said:


> well Schiit. Now I have to resume the hunt for them.
> So any detailed sound thoughts, other than they're bright Ish?



I'll put down some thoughts later today or tomorrow since I have only had a short time with them in the GOTL.  Probably will compare directly with the 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

Deyan said:


> Yes I can. But the EL12spez requires a different adapter.



A dedicated GEL3N amp made to run EL3N tubes using side contacts but with the option to run EL11, EL12 and EL12spez tubes with adapters. I'm starting to get all excited about this project. 

These are my German steel pins tubes which I bought earlier last year for a custom made amp from Glenn to run it but I did not go ahead with it. These are the best variety and expensive. Tight pins and bases and tested working in the GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

Just won this Mullard GZ34 rectifier, made in the UK Blackburn factory and according to the seller, the famed f32, 7 notch version. New and never used. That's the 2nd rectifier for the GEL3N.

@Sound Trooper, Sam where are you? Come back.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 11, 2019)

Alright, the Tung-Sol 7802.  This very rare 6AS7 type tube is nearly identical internally to the Tung-Sol 6080, but has a much finer grid, and some support rod differences.  It has the highest transconductance of the 6AS7s at 20,000, amplification factor of 9.

Tung-Sol 6080 on the left, 7802 on the right.  The physical likeness is where the similarities end though, this does not sound at all like a 6080...



Thought I would use a driver most are familiar with, the Tung-Sol 6SN7GT BGRP.  Most listening was done with the HD650, I find that it is more revealing of upstream changes than the Atticus.  Sorry it is not a TOTL, but my Auteur is out of office 

Trying to leave out the flowery language and keep it succinct.  This tube and the Western Electric 421A were 1A and 1B for me as far as outputs went in my Bottlehead Crackatwoa.  The 7802 maintains the same characteristics in the GOTL, but does them better.

I would say the Tung-Sol 7802 shares a lot of similarities with the 5998 as far as tonality/timbre goes.  But it has a little more energy, a more "in your face" sound, slightly more upper midrange and treble energy.  But here is the kicker: it is more audibly transparent than the 5998, and it is not hard to pick out.  In fact, and this might be a bold statement, I would go as far as to say that the Tung-Sol 7802 is the most transparent of all the 6AS7 type tubes.  It just has such a clean, chiseled, low-distortion sound that is dynamic, energetic, but slightly bright on top.

A downside is that it is not very forgiving of bad recordings, but does great justice to good ones.  The slightly bright of neutral character may not be for everyone either.  But man, I love it, and it goes so well with the HD650.  No one would call this headphone "laid back" while listening with these tubes.

Edit: a few more notes.  In terms of staging, the soundstage of the 7802 is large, I would say it is on equal footing with the 5998/421A, perhaps the center image is slightly more wide.  The 7802 has noticeably more kick and faster attack than the 5998 while listening to some EDM tracks.  I also did a quick A-B with the Cetron 6336B, but again, the 7802 bests it as well in terms of transparency and dynamics.


----------



## UntilThen

Back home for the weekend and playing ‘Love Over Gold’ Dire Straits on vinyl through the big speakers.

I do miss my gear back home.


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> Alright, the Tung-Sol 7802.  This very rare 6AS7 type tube is nearly identical internally to the Tung-Sol 6080, but has a much finer grid, and some support rod differences.  It has the highest transconductance of the 6AS7s at 20,000, amplification factor of 9.
> 
> Tung-Sol 6080 on the left, 7802 on the right.  The physical likeness is where the similarities end though, this does not sound at all like a 6080...
> 
> ...



Funny you just posted this. I'm listening to some TS 7802's right now along with Lorenz embossed c3g's and a Mullard GZ32. Pairs great with the Verite as @Phantaminum suggested. Super transparent, fast and detailed sounding. I just had some 5998's in before these and you loose some air and punch, but I think it's a better match.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 10, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Funny you just posted this. I'm listening to some TS 7802's right now along with Lorenz embossed c3g's and a Mullard GZ32. Pairs great with the Verite as @Phantaminum suggested. Super transparent, fast and detailed sounding. I just had some 5998's in before these and you loose some air and punch, but I think it's a better match.



Nice!! I didn't know anyone else in the thread had a pair, glad someone can confirm that I'm not crazy.  Definitely one of my favorite outputs, I'd imagine they would be great with the Verite.

It might pain @Monsterzero to read this...


----------



## UntilThen

Looks like a new tube is born. Wonder what tubes I’m going to use when the Verite comes.


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> Nice!! I didn't know anyone else in the thread had a pair, glad someone can confirm that I'm not crazy.  Definitely one of my favorite outputs, I'd imagine they would be great with the Verite.
> 
> It might pain @Monsterzero to read this...



Don't worry about him. He just sold off a kidney to help pay off that new DAC...


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 10, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Don't worry about him. He just sold off a kidney to help pay off that new DAC...



Might be able to find a kidney donor before a pair of these tubes, I haven't seen a single one surface in well over a year...


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> Don't worry about him. He just sold off a kidney to help pay off that new DAC...


Dude, where did you find a pair of 7802s?
I've reached out to every tube dealer I know and most aren't even familiar with it.


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> Might be able to find a kidney donor before a pair of these tubes, I haven't seen a single one surface in well over a year...



Don't listen to me. I'm dumb. I thought you were talking about 7236's. 

I thought 7802's aren't recommended to use in the GOTL?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 10, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Don't listen to me. I'm dumb. I thought you were talking about 7236's.
> 
> I thought 7802's aren't recommended to use in the GOTL?



That changed on the last page, Glenn said they would be over current and too hot, but I did some testing and put that fear to rest, they have received his blessing


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> That changed on the last page, Glenn said they would be over current and too hot, but I did some testing and put that fear to rest, they have received his blessing


Hi LG,
I have an inexpensive IR thermometer and I noticed that the temperature readings change with how far the thermometer is located in relation to the tubes. The closer you go, the higher the readings. 
As I recall the instructions for my IR thermometer said to measure 1 meter or 36" away from the object.
Perhaps your thermometer has a manual to clarify this.


----------



## UntilThen

Brought back my adapters.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 11, 2019)

Must have bid on this in my sleep because I won it.

From the seller listing:-

*Original vintage tubes. Made in the 1950s by Philips / Mullard for Siemens. With MX1 code. SAME serie. See pictures.*

*Tubes are electrical equivalent to EL3, Mullard EL33 or Marconi KT61  - but have a different base. *


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> I have an inexpensive IR thermometer and I noticed that the temperature readings change with how far the thermometer is located in relation to the tubes. The closer you go, the higher the readings.
> As I recall the instructions for my IR thermometer said to measure 1 meter or 36" away from the object.
> Perhaps your thermometer has a manual to clarify this.



Thanks, mordy.  The one I bought has a 12:1 distance-to-spot ratio, meaning at 12 inches, it measures a one-inch diameter circle.  So the closer I go, the smaller the area it measures.  I did this to make sure I was getting the hottest point on each tube, backing up to six inches changed the measurements, but only by a few degrees.  Either way, the measurements confirmed what my singed fingers were telling me, that the 6080s were actually getting hotter than the 7802.  Very happy I am able to use them.


----------



## UntilThen

A combination that makes the OTL so special. EL11s with 6bx7s. Super clarity without the harshness and a mid range sweetness that is addictive. Depth and height of soundstage transform this amp. A close cousin, both EL11 and EL3N sounds superb as strapped triodes in the driver's seat and Deyan's adapters just make it so neat and custom fitting. The c3g sockets are there for a reason. I love the EL11s. Can't believe I've put them aside for more than 2 months.


----------



## attmci (Aug 11, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Dude, where did you find a pair of 7802s?
> I've reached out to every tube dealer I know and most aren't even familiar with it.


https://forum.bottlehead.com/index.php?topic=3664.0

 I guess he got the info. from the Crack website  for this rare tube.

If you want to get similar results, try to use 4 5998 or 421a. Or 6 bx bl tubes.
No worries.
Anyone want to try 4 7236?


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> Don't listen to me. I'm dumb. I thought you were talking about 7236's.
> 
> I thought 7802's aren't recommended to use in the GOTL?


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> If you want to get similar results, try to use 4 5998 or 421a. Or 6 bx bl tubes.
> No worries.
> Anyone want to try 4 7236?



I have to agree with you there. 6 bx bl tubes are the next best thing since early man discovered how to start a fire.

Don't have 4 7236 but I've tried 2 5998 and 2 7236 and I prefer 6 bx bl.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> https://forum.bottlehead.com/index.php?topic=3664.0
> 
> I guess he got the info. from the Crack website  for this rare tube.
> 
> ...



Oh yes, the Bottlehead forum, the Fountain of Knowledge.  If I am not mistaken, you are an active member there attmci.  Do you own a Bottlehead amp?


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Oh yes, the Bottlehead forum, the Fountain of Knowledge.  If I am not mistaken, you are an active member there attmci.  Do you own a Bottlehead amp?


Nope, I am not an active one anywhere. LOL

I do have a Crack (old version). 

Enjoy your new toy!


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Must have bid on this in my sleep because I won it.
> 
> From the seller listing:-
> 
> ...



Actually, the factory code "G" tells us that these were manufactured by Loewe Opta, a Philips subsidiary, in Berlin. I have yet to come across an EL3N or EL11 that was actually manufactured by Mullard.



UntilThen said:


> A combination that makes the OTL so special. EL11s with 6bx7s. Super clarity without the harshness and a mid range sweetness that is addictive. Depth and height of soundstage transform this amp. *A close cousin, both EL11 and EL3N* sounds superb as strapped triodes in the driver's seat and Deyan's adapters just make it so neat and custom fitting. The c3g sockets are there for a reason. I love the EL11s. Can't believe I've put them aside for more than 2 months.



The EL11 and EL3N are much more than close cousins. They are identical twins. The only difference is the base. Typically, those marketed in Germany came with the German-octal base and those marketed elsewhere came with the side-contact base.

I have a pair each of EL11 and EL3N, both manufactured by Loewe Opta in Berlin. Again, the Valvo and your Siemens were marketed in Germany with the German-octal base. And the Mullard was obviously marketed in Britain.

And being identical twins, these tubes sound identical, with a bit more treble and air than the more commonly found WIRAG EL3N, but less than the Telefunken EL11.


----------



## heliosphann

Which tubes are cheaper to obtain, the EL3N or EL11?


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 11, 2019)

These are New in box from a reputable dealer.

http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/nostubes/nos-tubes-main-page.htm


----------



## gibosi

heliosphann said:


> Which tubes are cheaper to obtain, the EL3N or EL11?



On eBay there is no rhyme or reason. The prices for both are all over the place.

Most of the EL3N on eBay are WIRAG, factory code "A", and as Glenn points out, there is another source, not on eBay, that sells these fairly inexpensively.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> On eBay there is no rhyme or reason. The prices for both are all over the place.
> 
> Most of the EL3N on eBay are WIRAG, factory code "A", and as Glenn points out, there is another source, not on eBay, that sells these fairly inexpensively.


IT was ESRC but I bought all they had for $15 each.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> These are New in box from a reputable dealer.
> 
> http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/nostubes/nos-tubes-main-page.htm



That's the place I get it from in the past. They come in the original Philips Miniwatt boxes. To buy it, you just email them.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> And being identical twins, these tubes sound identical, with a bit more treble and air than the more commonly found WIRAG EL3N, but less than the Telefunken EL11.



Good observations on where they are made but I was comparing the Telefunken EL11 with the Philips Miniwatt EL3N from Acoustics Dimension. I haven't gotten the Siemens labelled EL11 yet. Just won the auction.

Between those 2, I wouldn't say they sound identical because as you've observed, the much more presence of treble and air in the Telefunken EL11 make it quite markedly different to my ears. It's a brighter tube.


----------



## Phantaminum

heliosphann said:


> Funny you just posted this. I'm listening to some TS 7802's right now along with Lorenz embossed c3g's and a Mullard GZ32. Pairs great with the Verite as @Phantaminum suggested. Super transparent, fast and detailed sounding. I just had some 5998's in before these and you loose some air and punch, but I think it's a better match.



Just saw your other post about using the 7236. I have a feeling the 7802s and 7236 have a very similar sound. 7236 are great tubes and i’m glad you’re liking them. 

I’m looking to build a straight OTL amp. Any suggestions? I’m going to get in line for one but I’m not sure what type of OTL to have Glenn build. I’m looking for something like the Apex Teton without the AT price lol.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

If there was any interest, I could send a pair of 7802s on a US tour, but it might just be a tease.  Wish there were more around for others to listen to.  Who knows, maybe I am the only one who likes them.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Did you get those GEC 6AS7G, @heliosphann ?


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> Did you get those GEC 6AS7G, @heliosphann ?



No. For what they went for, I decided to be patient and hope another better pair comes up.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> No. For what they went for, I decided to be patient and hope another better pair comes up.



Nice, probably wise, I remember some nice curved-base pairs going for the same or less not too long ago.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> No. For what they went for, I decided to be patient and hope another better pair comes up.


What did they end up going for?


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> If there was any interest, I could send a pair of 7802s on a US tour, but it might just be a tease.  Wish there were more around for others to listen to.  Who knows, maybe I am the only one who likes them.



Against my better judgement I'd be interested in checking them out. Im going on nearly one year,with not a single tube showing up on eBay.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Against my better judgement I'd be interested in checking them out. Im going on nearly one year,with not a single tube showing up on eBay.



Cool man, I'll shoot you a PM.  When you are done, if someone else is interested, you can send them along, otherwise I'll take them back.  Would be very interested to hear your thoughts on how they pair with the Vérité.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> What did they end up going for?


 I think after shipping a little over $450



L0rdGwyn said:


> Cool man, I'll shoot you a PM.  When you are done, if someone else is interested, you can send them along, otherwise I'll take them back.  Would be very interested to hear your thoughts on how they pair with the Vérité.



I'd like to check them out. Can compare them with the 7236's.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 11, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> I'd like to check them out. Can compare them with the 7236's.



PM incoming.  I am familiar with both, I think you will be pleasantly surprised by how the 7802 compare, but they are a little bright to my ears.  YMMV.

I am excited to hear someone else's impressions.  Based on what I know of the Vérité, these will be just what the doctor ordered.


----------



## UntilThen

The U52 rectifier arrived safe and sound. Looks pretty new.


----------



## mordy

A Mullard ECC31 came up for sale if somebody is looking:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273964051479?ul_noapp=true


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> The U52 rectifier arrived safe and sound. Looks pretty new.



Does look good. New sound adventure coming your way. Best of luck with the build. 
I know you have given this a lot of thought. Can't really go wrong with a Glenn design/build.
Now it's just the wait, but like myself, you have the GOTL to keep you busy and happy.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Does look good. New sound adventure coming your way. Best of luck with the build.
> I know you have given this a lot of thought. Can't really go wrong with a Glenn design/build.
> Now it's just the wait, but like myself, you have the GOTL to keep you busy and happy.



The wait's ok for me. Gives me time to mull over the design. I've enough EL11s and EL12 that are NOS NIB. I could even go with the amp build with those sockets for the steel pins tubes and have adapters crafted to use EL3N. Or have Yamamoto's side contacts build in for EL3Ns and have adapters crafted to use EL11s. Either way it will sound good and looks great in the large black chassis. A Mullard GZ34 NOS is on it's way to me. Got this from an aussie seller at a good price. I'm looking for another rectifier with a bright sound signature and more treble sparkle.

Waiting on the ZMF Verite headphone to arrive. That should sound great on the OTL, being 300 ohms. Almost bought a Focal Utopia but I reckon I'll give the Verite a try as it also use Beryllium drivers and there are some owners that prefers it over the Utopia. I was very impressed with the Utopia on the 2 occasions that I heard it at audio meets.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

All this talk of EL3N, I must partake.  Haven't spent a lot of time with these tubes, will get to know them between today and tomorrow.


----------



## Xcalibur255

On the subject of capacitors......  If there are concerns over Duelund because we had an owner experience some oil leakage, then I'm not sure turning to the Jupiter wax caps is a good solution.  There are multiple reports of them failing in high temperature environments too.

I think we should give these a try:
https://www.partsconnexion.com/audyn-tcm.html

After all the reading I've done these seem to be regarded as almost as good as the top end Jupiter cap.

No oil and no wax, just copper foil so no reliability problems.  As a nice added benefit they're half the price of the Jupiters.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 13, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Matt, two tube mode adds tons of dynamics, staging, resolution....the slam is off the hook.
> One tube mode gives you the blackest of black back rounds....as Glenn mentioned, less gain.
> When I owned my Grado RS1, I loved it in one tube mode, so clear and transparent...more so than the HD800 in this department.
> 
> ...




Spectacular write up and pics to boot! I will definitely get a new GEL3N amp and that would be interesting to know how this stacks up against the mighty WA33 - just out of curiosity but will keep my investment in this anyway.

You told me by PM you have the mini version - anyone know what the difference is between the mini and normal, or even new version? It's the ability to drive speakers, right? I want that option for sometime down the line.

@Sound Trooper maybe you would chime in?

@2359glenn it's not entirely necessary that my GEL3N amp be customized to also allow use of 6AS7 or 6336 (adjustable or add-on switchable transformer) - I'm just curious if that's possible and to see some basic numbers of that possible customization, for kicks but let me know by PM if it's not feasible and I'd just get the new version.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> would be interesting to know how this stacks up against the mighty WA33



This is lop-sided comparison. The Woo Audio WA33 in standard form is $8000 and in elite version is $15000. That's in US dollars.

In 2017, I attended the Australian HiFi show and in the Addicted To Audio stand, I heard the HiFiMan Susvara with the WA33. My first impression was that the bass is out of this world. It's so deep and haunting. Impressed no doubt but I wasn't used to that sound signature. It will take some time to do a proper evaluation. After 2 songs, I move on because that combination is a very heavy investment in head-fi.


----------



## DecentLevi

I'm well aware of the differences in price. Glenn amps may / may not be comparable because keep in mind price often but not always dictates performance. Even if Glenn amps come close I would be happy anyway, and just wanted to know as a point of reference, to have a baseline of the sound since I've not gotten to try a Glenn amp yet, and was able to try the WA 33 more than once. It shouldn't make much of a difference to me, just curious though. And what are some of the favorite DAC pairings with Glenn amps around here?


----------



## UntilThen

This is my point of reference. One of my joy on this audio journey is discovering the legendary sound of vintage Sansui amps. It's the reason I cancelled the order for the DNA Stratus after waiting 7 months - probably regretful in that I will never know how the Stratus will sound like.

Glenn's OTL amp is the best OTL amp I've heard to date. It's very special.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 13, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> I'm well aware of the differences in price. Glenn amps may / may not be comparable because keep in mind price often but not always dictates performance. Even if Glenn amps come close I would be happy anyway, and just wanted to know as a point of reference, to have a baseline of the sound since I've not gotten to try a Glenn amp yet, and was able to try the WA 33 more than once. It shouldn't make much of a difference to me, just curious though. And what are some of the favorite DAC pairings with Glenn amps around here?



Hopefully this isn't too controversial, but when it comes to DACs, I believe the measurements. I use Topping DACs, the Topping D50 and Topping D30.

I have A-B'd quite a few DACs and have honestly never been able to hear a difference.  I have A-B'd the Topping DACs against the Modi Multibit, couldn't hear a difference (I owned it at one time).  Burr-Brown, Sabre, AKM, doesn't matter, I cannot hear it.  So, I go for DACs that measure well: highest linearity, dynamic range, and lowest THD+N, and you can get very close to the very top of all DACs at around a $300 price point.  At least then I can see where my money is going.

The new Topping D50s is an excellent DAC from a measurements standpoint and it is very reasonably priced.  Not saying that more expensive, proprietary, and/or boutique DACs are not worth their price, as I am sure much thought has gone into the engineering and build design, just saying that I have never been able to hear it.  Still waiting for a DAC to come along that I can say "okay, that sounds better."  Maybe it will happen for me at ZMFestivus in October.

When it comes to amps, it is a totally different story, because I can hear it!  And typically, tube amplifiers will not measure as well as solid state, but there are easily discernible subjective improvements over solid state (for me).

If I am going to have second or third harmonic distortion in my audio chain, I want it to come from my beloved tubes!


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hopefully this isn't too controversial, but when it comes to DACs, I believe the measurements. I use Topping DACs, the Topping D50 and Topping D30.
> 
> I have A-B'd quite a few DACs and have honestly never been able to hear a difference.  I have A-B'd the Topping DACs against the Modi Multibit, couldn't hear a difference (I owned it at one time).  Burr-Brown, Sabre, AKM, doesn't matter, I cannot hear it.  So, I go for DACs that measure well: highest linearity, dynamic range, and lowest THD+N, and you can get very close to the very top of all DACs at around a $300 price point.  At least then I can see where my money is going.
> 
> ...


I am certain that monster is going to disagree. Especially after selling a kidney to finance a totl boutique DAC.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> I am certain that monster is going to disagree. Especially after selling a kidney to finance a totl boutique DAC.



I'd love to hear it!  I'm totally open to an amazing DAC blowing me away, it just hasn't happened yet.


----------



## Monsterzero (Aug 13, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have A-B'd quite a few DACs and have honestly never been able to hear a difference.  I have A-B'd the Topping DACs against the Modi Multibit, couldn't hear a difference (I owned it at one time).  Burr-Brown, Sabre, AKM, doesn't matter, I cannot hear it.  So, I go for DACs that measure well: highest linearity, dynamic range, and lowest THD+N, and you can get very close to the very top of all DACs at around a $300 price point.  At least then I can see where my money is going.


I would think that any Glenn owner is pretty far down the road of this hobby. Its not like any of us went from Apple earbuds from the motherboard directly to a Glenn,so it seems most of us have nice DACs. As to which is the consensus to own,I think it boils down to budget and personal tastes.

A few Glenn owners are rocking the Yggy. Another has the Holo Spring Kitsune lvl 3,and then myself and Leftside and have gone the full tube route with Lampizators. All are excellent DACs.

Unlike LG,I can def hear a difference between all the DACs Ive owned.
The AGD R2R-11 had a very warm sound,with a very musical presentation,but with warm headphones it got to be a bit too much.

The vintage EAD DSP-7000 Mk 3 had massive bass,but it was too warm and a bit claustrophobic for me. Thick,heavy sound. Zach from ZMF loves this DAC.

The Vinshine R2R Ref wasnt nearly as warm as the other two R2R DACs Ive owned,and is a great sounding DAC. The leading edges are a bit rounded off,which makes for a more relaxed sound.

The Atlantic TRP,which still taunts me from its box,is miles ahead of all the above mentioned DACs. Speed,clarity,holographic presentation. Huge images,live sounding,fantastic separation,resolution,jet black background,micro & macro details,etc....Its simply in another universe,both in performance and pricing.

I agree with LG that an amp has a much more profound influence on the sound though.


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> I am certain that monster is going to disagree. Especially after selling a kidney to finance a totl boutique DAC.



Yup,im a believer. 
Ironically the Atlantic TRP isnt their TOTL DAC. That title belongs to the Pacific,which sells for over 30k!

I havent heard it,nor do I ever intend to do so. Line has been drawn.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> I would think that any Glenn owner is pretty far down the road of this hobby. Its not like any of us went from Apple earbuds from the motherboard directly to a Glenn,so it seems most of us have nice DACs. As to which is the consensus to own,I think it boils down to budget and personal tastes.
> 
> A few Glenn owners are rocking the Yggy. Another has the Holo Spring Kitsune lvl 3,and then myself and Leftside and have gone the full tube route with Lampizators. All are excellent DACs.
> 
> ...



I definitely don't mean to imply that what others are hearing isn't there or that all DACs sound the same, it is more of a personal problem that I cannot hear a difference ha!

I am hopeful that I will come across one that stands out to me, because you better believe I would be willing to upgrade for the improvement.  I'd imagine a tube-rectified DAC, one with a tube buffer stage, or a vintage DAC would definitely sound different, but unfortunately, I have not heard one.

So I am keeping an open mind and using my cheapo DACs until I find "the one".


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I definitely don't mean to imply that what others are hearing isn't there or that all DACs sound the same, it is more of a personal problem that I cannot hear a difference ha!
> 
> I am hopeful that I will come across one that stands out to me, because you better believe I would be willing to upgrade for the improvement.  I'd imagine a tube-rectified DAC, one with a tube buffer stage, or a vintage DAC would definitely sound different, but unfortunately, I have not heard one.
> 
> So I am keeping an open mind and using my cheapo DACs until I find "the one".



I dont think its easy to hear(at least for me)huge differences in DACs unless you have one in your home for an extended length of time. Show environments simply do not afford the isolation,nor time to really'listen'. Not to mention most R2R DACs require a lengthy period of time of continous use before they sound their best. My Vinshine takes a few days to warm up,and Alvin(rep for Vinshine and Denafrips)suggests leaving the DAC powered up 24/7,which I do.


----------



## rosgr63

To be honest I never run any tube equipment 24/7, but that's me.


----------



## Monsterzero (Aug 13, 2019)

rosgr63 said:


> To be honest I never run any tube equipment 24/7, but that's me.



Nor do I. The R2R DACs I have owned are all solid state. The TRP,and all Lampizator DACs going forward are now D/S as they have shifted away from the R2R design.


----------



## rosgr63

I may be very bad but I never leave my SS gear on when I don't use it.
I can't see myself leaving my Weiss DAC on all the time.


----------



## Phantaminum

rosgr63 said:


> I may be very bad but I never leave my SS gear on when I don't use it.
> I can't see myself leaving my Weiss DAC on all the time.



My Schiit Gungnir Multibit takes almost 4 days to settle down once turned on. Can sound really wooly and disjointed at first. Tone is off. Once it’s settled down it sounds so much better. Schiit even recommends to leave the DAC on at all times because of it being an R2R.

Tube DACs are much more forgiving. Other than tube burn in, turn it on, then off when not being used.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 13, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I dont think its easy to hear(at least for me)huge differences in DACs unless you have one in your home for an extended length of time. Show environments simply do not afford the isolation,nor time to really'listen'. Not to mention most R2R DACs require a lengthy period of time of continous use before they sound their best. My Vinshine takes a few days to warm up,and Alvin(rep for Vinshine and Denafrips)suggests leaving the DAC powered up 24/7,which I do.



When I owned a Schiit R2R DAC, I did leave it on 24/7 per their recommendation, never had any issue with it.  I'll try to seek out some opportunities to audition some higher end DACs at home.

Unrelated, if someone is looking for a single 5998 for whatever reason, good price here, copper grid rods, over 100% emission, returns accepted:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/273964706855?ul_noapp=true


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have A-B'd quite a few DACs and have honestly never been able to hear a difference.





Monsterzero said:


> I agree with LG that an amp has a much more profound influence on the sound though.


My first decent DAC was a McIntosh D100. That was head and shoulders above the DAC inside my receiver. Then I borrowed a DAC from Lampizator and plugged it and the D100 into my preamp so I could do an A/B compare. The differences were obvious after 4-5 listens. The Mac sounded harsh and then I borrowed some money to purchase the Lampizator. The sound differences were even more obvious after I listened to the Lampizator for week and then plugged back in the D100.

But, I'll respectfully disagree with both of you   I believe the following: speakers/headphones > input source (turntable/DAC) > amp > preamp > tubes.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> My Schiit Gungnir Multibit takes almost 4 days to settle down once turned on. Can sound really wooly and disjointed at first. Tone is off. Once it’s settled down it sounds so much better. Schiit even recommends to leave the DAC on at all times because of it being an R2R.
> 
> Tube DACs are much more forgiving. Other than tube burn in, turn it on, then off when not being used.


I have the exact same experience with a Shiiiiit Jotenheim DAC that somebody just gave me - it did not sound right until after having been powered on for a couple of days. And as said, the manufacturer recommends leaving it on continuously.
I also have a Musical Fidelity V-DAC that always stays on; there doesn't seem to be any issues with these pieces of equipment leaving them on all the time.


----------



## mordy

But, I'll respectfully disagree with both of you   I believe the following: speakers/headphones > input source (turntable/DAC) > amp > preamp > tubes.[/QUOTE]
Can you explain what you mean?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> My first decent DAC was a McIntosh D100. That was head and shoulders above the DAC inside my receiver. Then I borrowed a DAC from Lampizator and plugged it and the D100 into my preamp so I could do an A/B compare. The differences were obvious after 4-5 listens. The Mac sounded harsh and then I borrowed some money to purchase the Lampizator. The sound differences were even more obvious after I listened to the Lampizator for week and then plugged back in the D100.
> 
> But, I'll respectfully disagree with both of you   I believe the following: speakers/headphones > input source (turntable/DAC) > amp > preamp > tubes.



Wow, tubes at the bottom of the list?  I'm shocked.  Color me intrigued though, to hear an obvious difference between DACs is not an experience I'm familiar with.  Monster has made me aware there are Lampizator DACs that do not cost a kidney, maybe just my spleen...


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 13, 2019)

Four Tung-Sol 7802 better than two?  I think so.  More authority and body, slightly faster attack.  I'll be sending a pair to @heliosphann  today, I need some more ears on these tubes...


----------



## Phantaminum

Fivre 12SL7s came in. Look to be almost the same build, round top, plastic spacers, round bottom mica with the exception of the that the plates are not fully black (pencil lead color and shine) as the one I lost in the amp. There is also no flash on the side of the tube and black base instead of red. 

Tube feels like it has the same depth, PRaT, and dynamics, but not as strong in depth layering as the brown base version. Hope the tube opens up more with time but I really miss the red base version.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> But, I'll respectfully disagree with both of you   I believe the following: speakers/headphones > input source (turntable/DAC) > amp > preamp > tubes.


Can you explain what you mean?[/QUOTE]
Most important is speakers/headphones. Tubes least so. Obviously, others will think differently depending upon their systems.



L0rdGwyn said:


> Wow, tubes at the bottom of the list?  I'm shocked.  Color me intrigued though, to hear an obvious difference between DACs is not an experience I'm familiar with.  Monster has made me aware there are Lampizator DACs that do not cost a kidney, maybe just my spleen...


I picked up a used Lampizator Euforia for $1100 last year. It's not so popular, as it only supports DSD. But, with something like Roon or JRiver it's really easy to convert a PCM to a DSD signal so that PCM files can also be played. A lot of the earlier models can be had for good prices on the used market. I'll eventually replace this Euforia with the TRP that monster purchased, but it's fairly low down on my list of priorities right now.


----------



## attmci

Those guys are crazy.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-EC...322&pg=2349624&_trksid=p2349624.c100889.m5204


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> I'll eventually replace this Euforia with the TRP that monster purchased, but it's fairly low down on my list of priorities right now.


I will wait for @Monsterzero to upgrade his DAC to the $30K one, and buy his current one for half price!


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 13, 2019)

Your system is as good as it's weakest link. I believe that source, amp and transducers are equally important. It's important that there's synergy.

I certainly can hear differences in the dacs I've own and heard in my own home. In fact, when I audition Yggdrasil at Addicted At Audio, it sounded so good to my ears I had to buy it there and then. The NAD M51 that I had at one time sounded very good to me but it's more lean in tone. Yggy has more body and just as detailed. Apart from dac, when I bought Rega Rp8 with Apheta cartridge and Avid Pellar phono stage, I was astonished at the level of details I heard from vinyl. 

I'm sure there are better dacs and turntables/cartridges out there but this is where I stop. I'm happy with what I've got.

Monster is right though. For a proper evaluation of gear, you need to have it in your own home and listen to it for a while.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Can you explain what you mean?


Most important is speakers/headphones. Tubes least so. Obviously, others will think differently depending upon their systems.
Hi ls,
Your answer confirms my initial impression of what you meant. I cannot argue too much with what you are saying - the speakers/headphones have a major impact on the sound and so on, down the chain of components.
However, I have settled on a bunch of components that I am not likely to change so soon (unless something breaks). This leads me to very few choices - 2 pairs of headphones [T1 and HD650] that I don't use much, and my beloved Elac Debut 6 speakers which I use all the time.
The only changes I make are the tubes. I am working with my system, trying to find the combination of tubes that bests suits my taste. Therefore, in my situation, the major change in sound only comes from the tubes, which make them the most important for me in terms of changing the sound.
So I think that we are basically saying the same thing, just approaching it from different angles.
I am sure if I were to get a pair of Wilson WAMM Master Chronosonic Towers speakers it would make an enormous difference compared to changing tubes, but I ain't going there.....




If you are asking about the MSRP price for a pair, you cannot afford them........


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Those guys are crazy.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-ECC32-Valve-Tube-Boxed-AVO-Tested-N-S/362719872322?_trkparms=aid=1110001&algo=SPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=20190717082801&meid=a2c6c50892cd47efa13de656ef8bb122&pid=100889&rk=10&rkt=12&mehot=es&sd=273964706855&itm=362719872322&pg=2349624&_trksid=p2349624.c100889.m5204


Hi attmci,
12 bidders and a price of $139 for a tube that is shorted out and non-serviceable - maybe those guys know something that we don't?


----------



## UntilThen

Tubes do affect what you hear eventually but it's not at the level of the main component and it's implementation. So the main building blocks are the source, amp and transducers. I agree with leftside that tubes have a lesser impact compared to those.


----------



## whirlwind

I leave my dac on all the time, that is what is recommended....I just put mine in standby mode.

At one time I was in the camp that the dac was the least important part in the chain, but I have definitely changed my mind as far as that goes.

If you can not hear the differences though, heck I would consider that a great thing actually.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> Those guys are crazy.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-ECC32-Valve-Tube-Boxed-AVO-Tested-N-S/362719872322?_trkparms=aid=1110001&algo=SPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=20190717082801&meid=a2c6c50892cd47efa13de656ef8bb122&pid=100889&rk=10&rkt=12&mehot=es&sd=273964706855&itm=362719872322&pg=2349624&_trksid=p2349624.c100889.m5204





mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> 12 bidders and a price of $139 for a tube that is shorted out and non-serviceable - maybe those guys know something that we don't?



Maybe they are hoping they can wack the tube and shift the internal components enough to break the short, it's the only way.  I have now done this on a few tubes, but I would never buy into a $122 gamble.  You could buy a working ECC32 for not much more.  

Or nine bidders didn't read the description.


----------



## whirlwind

My guess is they did not read the description.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 13, 2019)

We'll see if I can make a believer out of me, I'll make it a project of mine to find an exceptional DAC where the difference is truly obvious.  I can count the number of hifi stores in Cleveland on two fingers, maybe they can help me out.  Very unlikely to have boutique brands, only the major players.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> We'll see if I can make a believer out of me, I'll make it a project of mine to find an exceptional DAC where the difference is truly obvious.  I can count the number of hifi stores in Cleveland on two fingers, maybe they can help me out.  Very unlikely to have boutique brands, only the major players.


You can always borrow one from Fred/Lampizator. Beware: look what happened to @Monsterzero


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> We'll see if I can make a believer out of me, I'll make it a project of mine to find an exceptional DAC where the difference is truly obvious.  I can count the number of hifi stores in Cleveland on two fingers, maybe they can help me out.  Very unlikely to have boutique brands, only the major players.



You're going to the ZMF Festivius. I'm sure someone will bring along a nice dac.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> You can always borrow one from Fred/Lampizator. Beware: look what happened to @Monsterzero



Yeah,Fred and I doing an Amber 3 tour. Trying to get LG included in it. We have 5 members already,myself included. There might be more slots opening up,but thats up to Fred.
PM me if anyone is interested.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> You're going to the ZMF Festivius. I'm sure someone will bring along a nice dac.



Maybe I can convince @Monsterzero to throw his Lampizator into his carry on.  I'm sure TSA would have no concerns.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

My Osram-labeled L63s arrived today.  One of them is intermittently noisy, it sounds like its gargling mouth wash.  I go to tap it to stop the noise, right before I make contact it stops.  It's taunting me.


----------



## pippen99

I will be at ZMFestivus with my PS Audio Direcstream Sr DAC.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

pippen99 said:


> I will be at ZMFestivus with my PS Audio Direcstream Sr DAC.



Awesome, thanks pippen, I'll find you there


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> 12 bidders and a price of $139 for a tube that is shorted out and non-serviceable - maybe those guys know something that we don't?


Maybe the box?


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> To my ears, the Telefunken EL11 are brighter and more airy than the Valvo EL8. And as a result with the Valvo, I find a Holland-made GZ34 to match up very nicely. But the GZ34 is a bit too bright with the Telefunken, and I find that the Mullard GZ32 to be a better match. But of course, YMMV.



Just going back on past impressions and I totally agree with you Ken, that the Telefunken EL11 are brighter and more airy than the Valvo EL8 or EL3N. I have a preference for details and clarity and do love the tone of the Telefunken EL11. It so happens that I've purchased the GEC U52 and Mullard GZ34, both of which have a warmer sound signature. Correct me if I'm wrong. If so, they should pair nicely with the Telefunken EL11s. 

So I'm leaning more and more on getting Glenn to build me GEL11.  using EL11 or EL12 or EL12 spez as power tubes and EL11 as driver tubes. I've all the tubes so might as well make use of it.

And I'll call it Berlin.


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> You can always borrow one from Fred/Lampizator. Beware: look what happened to @Monsterzero


Yeah - that is my fear... Some bells cannot be un-rung...   



Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,Fred and I doing an Amber 3 tour. Trying to get LG included in it. We have 5 members already,myself included. There might be more slots opening up,but thats up to Fred.
> PM me if anyone is interested.


Funny - after all the DAC discussion earlier, I was wondering what's Lampizator's "entry level" DAC... After some reading, apparently it is the upgraded Amber 3. Coincidentally I PM'd Fred earlier and he told me about the pending tour next month (or there about). I know it is a mistake, but we're 6 now  
Currently, I use a Metrum Amethyst that I bought from Zach (he's the US reseller), and I am happy with it. I am terrified I would hear an improvement with the Amber 3


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Just going back on past impressions and I totally agree with you Ken, that the Telefunken EL11 are brighter and more airy than the Valvo EL8 or EL3N. I have a preference for details and clarity and do love the tone of the Telefunken EL11. It so happens that I've purchased the GEC U52 and Mullard GZ34, both of which have a warmer sound signature. Correct me if I'm wrong. If so, they should pair nicely with the Telefunken EL11s.
> 
> So I'm leaning more and more on getting Glenn to build me GEL11.  using EL11 or EL12 or EL12 spez as power tubes and EL11 as driver tubes. I've all the tubes so might as well make use of it.
> 
> And I'll call it Berlin.


There are other tubes in the EL family that sound better than the EL8, but when you pair the EL8 with a third driver there is great synergy and the results are excellent.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> There are other tubes in the EL family that sound better than the EL8, but when you pair the EL8 with a third driver there is great synergy and the results are excellent.



The amp will be an exact replica of the GEL3N except it will use EL11 tubes and in the power slots, the option to use EL11 or EL12 or EL12 spez. It will have one and 2 stage. I'll have to talk to Glenn about this.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> There are other tubes in the EL family that sound better than the EL8, but when you pair the EL8 with a third driver there is great synergy and the results are excellent.


What other EL tubes can be used in the GOTL that uses the same adapter as the EL8?


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> What other EL tubes can be used in the GOTL that uses the same adapter as the EL8?



EL3N   See LG's picture.


----------



## mordy (Aug 13, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> What other EL tubes can be used in the GOTL that uses the same adapter as the EL8?


EL3, EL3N, EL6  - all have side contacts.


----------



## gibosi (Aug 13, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Just going back on past impressions and I totally agree with you Ken, that the Telefunken EL11 are brighter and more airy than the Valvo EL8 or EL3N. I have a preference for details and clarity and do love the tone of the Telefunken EL11. It so happens that I've purchased the GEC U52 and Mullard GZ34, both of which have a warmer sound signature. Correct me if I'm wrong. If so, they should pair nicely with the Telefunken EL11s.
> 
> So I'm leaning more and more on getting Glenn to build me GEL11.  using EL11 or EL12 or EL12 spez as power tubes and EL11 as driver tubes. I've all the tubes so might as well make use of it.
> 
> And I'll call it Berlin.



Personally, to my ears, the U52 isn't quite warm enough to counter-balance the Telefunken's treble and airiness, but the Mullard GZ34 should do the job.

And since the EL3N and EL11 are electrically identical, it doesn't really matter whether you order the amp with German octal sockets or side-contact sockets. Either way, Deyan can make adapters to allow you to use the other. And it might come down to which adapter looks the best aesthetically. Since the side-contact sockets are recessed into the top of the chassis, a German octal to side-contact adapter might be almost flush with the top, in much the same way as the standard octal to side-contact adapter which allows the EL34 to be used in the GEL3N.

Anyway, just want to give you more to think about. lol


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> EL3, EL3N, EL6, EL11, EL12, EL12N (not EL12 Spez) - all have side contacts.


 
EL11, EL12, EL12N do not have side contacts. They use the same pins as EL12 spez.


----------



## UntilThen

A picture of some of my steel pins EL tubes.


----------



## mordy (Aug 13, 2019)

There is also a tube 4699 that has twice the output power of an EL3 but I do not know if it is suitable in the Glenn EL3N amp.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_4699.html
The literature states that it is a predecessor to the EL34.
It is supposedly similar to an EL12 with a different base (side contact).


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Personally, to my ears, the U52 isn't quite warm enough to counter-balance the Telefunken's treble and airiness, but the Mullard GZ34 should do the job.
> 
> And since the EL3N and EL11 are electrically identical, it doesn't really matter whether you order the amp with German octal sockets or side-contact sockets. Either way, Deyan can make adapters to allow you to use the other. And it might come down to which adapter looks the best aesthetically. Since the side-contact sockets are recessed into the top of the chassis, a German octal to side-contact adapter might be almost flush with the top, in much the same way as the standard octal to side-contact adapter which allows the EL34 to be used in the GEL3N.
> 
> Anyway, just want to give you more to think about. lol



The intent is to recreate the glory days of the Siemens-Klangfilm amplifiers except I'm certain Glenn will make it sound much better. 

So it's Berlin without the rolls except to swap those EL11, 12, 12 spez power tubes and tube rectifers.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> EL11, EL12, EL12N do not have side contacts. They use the same pins as EL12 spez.


You are right - corrected it in my post.
Gets confusing with all the alternatives - what do you think of the 4699?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Gets confusing with all the alternatives - what do you think of the 4699?



Twice as much power as the EL3. Similar to EL6. Only Glenn can tell you if it's safe to use in the GEL3N. I'm not looking for lots more power because this will not be a speaker amp for me. Besides I'm more inclined to go with the octal steel pins sockets for EL11 now.

Those few on 4699 ebay for sale are very expensive.


----------



## rnros (Aug 14, 2019)

mordy said:


> There is also a tube 4699 that has twice the output power of an EL3 but I do not know if it is suitable in the Glenn EL3N amp.
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_4699.html
> The literature states that it is a predecessor to the EL34.
> It is supposedly similar to an EL12 with a different base (side contact).



Also the 4689, and before those two, the 4654 and the the EL50, both with plate caps but the same metal base and side contacts.
First versions were ST shape, then redesigned as straight glass like later EL34. 
Assuming they can be used anywhere you would use EL34.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Those few on 4699 ebay for sale are very expensive.



Yes, same price level as EL34.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 14, 2019)

@L0rdGwyn to be completely transparent, the most likely reasons for not hearing a difference between DACs would be the resolving ability of headphones used and hearing ability to be able to notice the details. The DAC does the heavy lifting that sets the pace for the rest of the chain all the way to your ears. It can make as big a difference as the food you put into your body. I'm not saying either two above factors are an issue in your case, but maybe it could be that the DACs you tried were too similar or the amping was not quite up to spec. Either way I applaud you for being open to trying new DACs to hear the difference.

For the $8k Lampizator tube DAC, I'll go out on a limb and say one doesn't have to spend quite that much for absolute master-class sound and that a _tube_ DAC + _tube _amp may = too much tube saturation / euphonic sound, or at least for my tastes. And RE it's cost, especially it may not necessarily have to cost that much with the likes of Hugo TT 2 being slightly less and Dangerous Convert 2 DAC much less at around $2.5k range - but getting especially good reviews from many experienced users who have tried them recently. If I'm lucky I may be able to audition one in a few weeks. And if I like it I may stick with the Dangerous Music brand for a future purchase of a A/D converter which is the opposite of a DAC to make good digital files out of analogue input for professional recording.

As a disclaimer I haven't heard the Lampizator DAC yet so I may be wrong, but it would be amazing for these to outclass other DACs like the above and also Yggdrasil 2 that cost less.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 14, 2019)

gibosi said:


> Actually, the factory code "G" tells us that these were manufactured by Loewe Opta, a Philips subsidiary, in Berlin. I have yet to come across an EL3N or EL11 that was actually manufactured by Mullard.
> 
> The EL11 and EL3N are much more than close cousins. They are identical twins. The only difference is the base. Typically, those marketed in Germany came with the German-octal base and those marketed elsewhere came with the side-contact base.
> 
> ...


Certainly interesting that the EL3N and EL11 could be identical except for the bases. Somehow however in my multi-year experience with both on the Elise & Euforia amp they both sound almost the opposite, the EL3N being more slow and dark yet both being fairly lush. There must be some finer detail that sets them apart in the internal construction or materials, conductivity etc. But certainly the slimmer ST shaped EL11's such as Telefunken or RFT must be different, sounding brighter and less organic with bass of a different flavor.



rosgr63 said:


> I may be very bad but I never leave my SS gear on when I don't use it.
> I can't see myself leaving my Weiss DAC on all the time.


I believe the reason for not leaving electronic devices on in general may have more to do with reducing the environmental impact of energy production and electricity bill - to which I agree.

@UntilThen , congrats for also having an EL12 Spez. It's a very spezial tube that holds down its' own amazingly well towards nearly the top of the EL series. Also if you're getting a GEL11 amp I recon you will also probably be getting EL3N adapters to try those.


----------



## UntilThen

I doubt that you won't be pleased with a Yggdrasil 2. Torq, who has done extensive evaluation on dacs, speaks highly of it.


----------



## Monsterzero

DecentLevi said:


> and that a _tube_ DAC + _tube _amp may = too much tube saturation / euphonic sound.



I was concerned about that,but its not the case. Using the basic starter tubes,it did not even begin to delve into tube overload with my GOTL.
The beautiful thing about the TRP is one can make it sound however you prefer,by swapping the tubes. TRP=Tube Rollers Paradise.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> @UntilThen , congrats for also having an EL12 Spez. It's a very spezial tube that holds down its' own amazingly well towards nearly the top of the EL series. Also if you're getting a GEL11 amp I recon you will also probably be getting EL3N adapters to try those.



I had the EL12 spez and the other EL tubes last year when I wanted Glenn to build me an amp using those tubes. I just didn't proceed with it but this time around, Project Berlin will go ahead. I'll just await my turn in the queue for the amp to be built.

That pair of Telefunken EL12 spez tubes is in tip top condition and cost me US$150. The other EL11s and EL12s are also NOS.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 14, 2019)

The Fivre 6v6g tubes from Langrex arrived. They are so nice looking tubes ! Even the pins are gold plated. Solid brown base. Very firm. Smooth glass and clearly legible lettering on the glass. Wrapped in very ancient soft paper.

Project Berlin may have to be delayed in favour of Project Xanadu - that's my code name for EL34, 6V6, 6L6, KT66, 5881, EL35, EL37, EL38, EL39 with dual L63.

Oh why are there only 7 pins?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I had the EL12 spez and the other EL tubes last year when I wanted Glenn to build me an amp using those tubes. I just didn't proceed with it but this time around, Project Berlin will go ahead. I'll just await my turn in the queue for the amp to be built.
> 
> That pair of Telefunken EL12 spez tubes is in tip top condition and cost me US$150. The other EL11s and EL12s are also NOS.



When it is time to build your amp you will have to send me some of these tubes. I don't have any to test the amp.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> When it is time to build your amp you will have to send me some of these tubes. I don't have any to test the amp.



Sure I'll send you all the tubes !  ..... but the question now is whether Berlin or Xanadu. 

because that Fivre 6V6g is so nice looking.


----------



## rosgr63

DecentLevi said:


> I believe the reason for not leaving electronic devices on in general may have more to do with reducing the environmental impact of energy production and electricity bill - to which I agree.



Every little bit helps.


----------



## UntilThen

I want Project Berlin to go ahead because I know those EL tubes will sound great with your implementation.


----------



## whirlwind

pippen99 said:


> I will be at ZMFestivus with my PS Audio Direcstream Sr DAC.





L0rdGwyn said:


> Awesome, thanks pippen, I'll find you there




This will be a great dac for you to listen to...will look forward to your impressions.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> EL11, EL12, EL12N do not have side contacts. They use the same pins as EL12 spez.



I believe @gibosi has a Valvo EL11 with side contacts, but I think it is a rarity.



UntilThen said:


> A picture of some of my steel pins EL tubes.



Those are some good looking tubes.  I might have Deyan make me some EL11 adapters.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 14, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> @L0rdGwyn to be completely transparent, the most likely reasons for not hearing a difference between DACs would be the resolving ability of headphones used and hearing ability to be able to notice the details. The DAC does the heavy lifting that sets the pace for the rest of the chain all the way to your ears. It can make as big a difference as the food you put into your body. I'm not saying either two above factors are an issue in your case, but maybe it could be that the DACs you tried were too similar or the amping was not quite up to spec. Either way I applaud you for being open to trying new DACs to hear the difference.



You may be right DL, perhaps the DACs I've been comparing are too similar, maybe I need to get a little more exotic  as far as the headphones go, comparisons in the past have been with the Auteur and HD800, which I think are suitably transparent.  But I am willing to revisit it, if there is an untapped method to improve my listening experience, I am all for it.

There is something of a objectivist vs. subjectivist audiophile war being waged right now, not so much on Head-Fi, but other parts of the internet.  I've had to walk away from some other forums having been ridiculed for liking horrible distortion-generating tube amps.  It's a shame.  Like every other heated debate, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, but people are unable to remain skeptical and question their own opinions.  Even though I have fallen closer to the objectivist side when it comes to DACs up to this point, I would be very happy to be proven wrong.


----------



## gibosi (Aug 14, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Certainly interesting that the EL3N and EL11 could be identical except for the bases. Somehow however in my multi-year experience with both on the Elise & Euforia amp they both sound almost the opposite, the EL3N being more slow and dark yet both being fairly lush. There must be some finer detail that sets them apart in the internal construction or materials, conductivity etc. But certainly the slimmer ST shaped EL11's such as Telefunken or RFT must be different, sounding brighter and less organic with bass of a different flavor.



Electrically identical does not mean "sound" identical. All 6SN7GT are electrically identical, but an RCA sounds very different than a Sylvania. The factory matters.

The EL11 and EL3N are electrically identical. But of course an EL11 manufactured by Telefunken sounds different than an EL3N manufactured by Philips in Holland. However, it is relatively easy to remove the German octal base from a Telefunken EL11 and install a European side-contact base. And voila, you have a Telefunken EL3N. And in fact, you could even install an American octal base, but I have no idea what you would call it. And it is certainly possible to install a German octal base or a European side-contact base on a 6SN7GT! Again, the base has no affect on the sound. The tube will sound the same regardless of which base is installed.

As I recall, Telefunken strongly championed the German octal base and as a result, it became a de facto standard in Germany. But the rest of Europe primarily used the side-contact base. Some manufacturers and factories that served both markets manufactured both the EL11 and EL3N. And again, same tube, different base.

And this is not the only example of same tube, different bases. The AZ4 rectifier has a European side-contact base while the AZ12 has the German octal base. But again, they are identical except for the base.



L0rdGwyn said:


> I believe @gibosi has a Valvo EL11 with side contacts, but I think it is a rarity.



What I have are EL11 and EL3N manufactured by Loewe Opta, a Philips subsidiary located in Berliln. Being a Philips company based in Berlin, Loewe Opta catered to the local German market, the EL11, and the broader European market, the EL3N. The EL11 I have carries the Valvo brand. And the EL3N carries the Philips brand. Again, same tube, different base. And yes, they sound identical.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> This will be a great dac for you to listen to...will look forward to your impressions.


Because the firmware can be upgraded (both DAC and the bridge II), the manufacturer used to get a lot of complains because the end users want a perfect DAC.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Sure I'll send you all the tubes !  ..... but the question now is whether Berlin or Xanadu.
> 
> because that Fivre 6V6g is so nice looking.


Hi, Matt, the AU sellers always request over US$35 for shipping to the states. Do they make profit on shipping? Thx.


----------



## Gopher

Hello All,

I'm glad to hear our lampizator dacs getting some attention over here.  Yes while it's true our flagship dac tops out around $30k, we also pride ourselves on having class leading performance at each of our price points beginning with the Amber at around 2500.

It is true that we've moved away from the r2r digital engines that were popular in our prior generation of dacs.  This decision was made as our current offerings are leaps and bounds ahead of our previous.  

I'm happy to answer any questions you guys may have on our products.  Don't be shy to give me a shout!

Fred


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> Hi, Matt, the AU sellers always request over US$35 for shipping to the states. Do they make profit on shipping? Thx.


I think that indeed is the going rate. A lot of US sellers will try and charge the same for Priority shipping just to Canada. I try and tell them that regular USPS is fine at around $16. It's often cheaper to get packages sent from Europe - especially the UK (where I do most of my tube buying) and Germany. Italy is another expensive one. Living in the US and purchasing in the US is the  best option!


----------



## pippen99

attmci said:


> Because the firmware can be upgraded (both DAC and the bridge II), the manufacturer used to get a lot of complains because the end users want a perfect DAC.



I have been through 3 upgrades and the SQ has improved each time.  The Bridge II is another whole thing as the firmware is third party (Conversdigital) which the founder Paul McGowan has sworn never to do again.  Of course there will always be some who don't appreciate that it wasn't perfect the first time but then it never would have reached the public in the first place.  Headphones and amps come and go but my DSD DAC stays.

P.S.:  The firmware upgrades are FREE!


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Project Berlin may have to be delayed in favour of Project Xanadu - that's my code name for EL34, 6V6, 6L6, KT66, 5881, EL35, EL37, EL38, EL39 with dual L63.


Tough decision. Here's a picture showing the differences between an Osram KT66, Fivre 6L6G and Fivre 6V6G.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Electrically identical does not mean "sound" identical. All 6SN7GT are electrically identical, but an RCA sounds very different than a Sylvania. The factory matters.
> 
> The EL11 and EL3N are electrically identical. But of course an EL11 manufactured by Telefunken sounds different than an EL3N manufactured by Philips in Holland. However, it is relatively easy to remove the German octal base from a Telefunken EL11 and install a European side-contact base. And voila, you have a Telefunken EL3N. And in fact, you could even install an American octal base, but I have no idea what you would call it. And it is certainly possible to install a German octal base or a European side-contact base on a 6SN7GT! Again, the base has no affect on the sound. The tube will sound the same regardless of which base is installed.
> 
> ...


Hi gibosi,
I have seen TFK EL3N tubes for sale by Billings in the UK, but I don't know anybody who tried them.
I am sure that the base of a tube does not change the sound, but my experience has been that tubes from the same manufacturer with the same designation but different shape, sound different. One example is the TFK EL11 ST type and straight glass type which don't sound the same to me.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> I have seen TFK EL3N tubes for sale by Billings in the UK, but I don't know anybody who tried them.
> I am sure that the base of a tube does not change the sound, but my experience has been that tubes from the same manufacturer with the same designation but different shape, sound different. One example is the TFK EL11 ST type and straight glass type which don't sound the same to me.



Yes indeed. Tubes manufactured by the same maker in the same factory at different times often sound different. We all know that the RPBG Tung-Sol 6SN7GT sounds very different than the Mouse Ears. But according to the data sheets, they are electrically identical.


----------



## heliosphann

gibosi said:


> Yes indeed. Tubes manufactured by the same maker in the same factory at different times often sound different. We all know that the RPBG Tung-Sol 6SN7GT sounds very different than the Mouse Ears. But according to the data sheets, they are electrically identical.



Man, I got a pair of Mouse Ears and can't find them... Never even got to use them!


----------



## attmci (Aug 14, 2019)

gibosi said:


> Electrically identical does not mean "sound" identical. All 6SN7GT are electrically identical, but an RCA sounds very different than a Sylvania. The factory matters.
> 
> The EL11 and EL3N are electrically identical. But of course an EL11 manufactured by Telefunken sounds different than an EL3N manufactured by Philips in Holland. However, it is relatively easy to remove the German octal base from a Telefunken EL11 and install a European side-contact base. And voila, you have a Telefunken EL3N. And in fact, you could even install an American octal base, but I have no idea what you would call it. And it is certainly possible to install a German octal base or a European side-contact base on a 6SN7GT! Again, the base has no affect on the sound. The tube will sound the same regardless of which base is installed.
> 
> ...


Wait, which amp are you planning to use these tubes? Just curious.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> Man, I got a pair of Mouse Ears and can't find them... Never even got to use them!


@rosgr63 sent me a mouse ear. It sounds good,but it wont make you want to take out your BGRP.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Wait, which amp are you planning to use these tubes? Just curious.



In Glenn's OTL, with custom adapters to allow them to be used in place of the C3g.

EL11 manufactured by Loewe Opta in Berlin.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> In Glenn's OTL, with custom adapters to allow them to be used in place of the C3g.
> 
> EL11 manufactured by Loewe Opta in Berlin.



How does the Telefunken el11 differ in sound vs. the el8? I know Telefunken are known for making tubes that have a bright airy sound,which pretty much describes the el8 to my ears.


----------



## gibosi

My Valvo EL8 were manufactured in Hamburg, Germany, and I am not sure if they were manufactured anywhere else. Anyway, in general, while I agree that the Valvo EL8 is bright and airy, the Telefunken EL11 is even more so.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> In Glenn's OTL, with custom adapters to allow them to be used in place of the C3g.
> 
> EL11 manufactured by Loewe Opta in Berlin.


Thanks.

Are they better than the C3g, or just for fun?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 14, 2019)

Anyone using Deoxit have a tried and true method?  I recently started using the "Vacuum Tube Survival Kit" with the higher concentration cleaner.  The included brushes and very nice.  Before I was just using isopropyl alcohol.  What I am finding is that following the recommended method of leaving the pins to soak overnight is inefficient and uses too much product (how convenient for them).  It also leaves a hard to remove residue on the pins and base, this stuff does not clean off easily, and I'm not keen on gumming up my GOTL sockets.  The only reasonable way to remove it seems to be an isopropyl alcohol bath at the end.  Overall, not impressed.

Any tips are welcome, thanks.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> In Glenn's OTL, with custom adapters to allow them to be used in place of the C3g.
> 
> EL11 manufactured by Loewe Opta in Berlin.


Here are two Loewe-Opta EL11 tubes - note that the left one is has a much smaller form factor:


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Anyone using Deoxit have a tried and true method?  I recently started using the "Vacuum Tube Survival Kit" with the higher concentration cleaner.  The included brushes and very nice.  Before I was just using isopropyl alcohol.  What I am finding is that following the recommended method of leaving the pins to soak overnight is inefficient and uses too much product (how convenient for them).  It also leaves a hard to remove residue on the pins and base, this stuff does not clean off easily, and I'm not keen on gumming up my GOTL sockets.  The only reasonable way to remove it seems to be an isopropyl alcohol bath at the end.  Overall, not impressed.
> 
> Any tips are welcome, thanks.


Hi LG,
I use this Swiss precision instrument to gently scrape the tube pins - no fuss, no muzz!



It does require concentration though - you must count each pin to make sure you don't miss one - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ; then turn it over and do the inside of the pin, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8, and you are done. 
A visual check is also recommended to make sure that you did not miss anything.
BTW, I like the Russian Rhodium plated pins that don't seem to corrode easily.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> I use this Swiss precision instrument to gently scrape the tube pins - no fuss, no muzz!
> 
> It does require concentration though - you must count each pin to make sure you don't miss one - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ; then turn it over and do the inside of the pin, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8, and you are done.
> ...



Thanks, mordy.  I'm going to see this Deoxit thing through first, see if I can find a good way of using it.  Maybe I'll move onto the Swiss method next  I've used abrasive pads with alcohol in the past, sort of similar.  I know Deoxit has something of a following with good results, so I thought I'd give it a shot, but the user experience so far has not been positive.  I wasn't expecting it to be so...greasy.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Anyone using Deoxit have a tried and true method?  I recently started using the "Vacuum Tube Survival Kit" with the higher concentration cleaner.  The included brushes and very nice.  Before I was just using isopropyl alcohol.  What I am finding is that following the recommended method of leaving the pins to soak overnight is inefficient and uses too much product (how convenient for them).  It also leaves a hard to remove residue on the pins and base, this stuff does not clean off easily, and I'm not keen on gumming up my GOTL sockets.  The only reasonable way to remove it seems to be an isopropyl alcohol bath at the end.  Overall, not impressed.
> 
> Any tips are welcome, thanks.


I stopped using Deoxit for these reasons. At a minimum I find you'll need to use IPA after using Deoxit. These days I do what a lot of others do on here: use some fine sand/grit paper and then IPA on the pins. I forgot the number of the sandpaper (maybe 500?), but I can check later or you can search on here. Less material in the amp sockets the better.


----------



## Monsterzero

I use fine grit sandpaper(3000) first,then use Deoxit on a cotton swab to get off any muck,then use dry swabs to clean off residual Deoxit on pins and base.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> I stopped using Deoxit for these reasons. At a minimum I find you'll need to use IPA after using Deoxit. These days I do what a lot of others do on here: use some fine sand/grit paper and then IPA on the pins. I forgot the number of the sandpaper (maybe 500?), but I can check later or you can search on here. Less material in the amp sockets the better.



Welp!  Well thanks @leftside , I'll probably move away from using it then, it's just such a friggin' mess.

Maybe I will reserve it for particularly difficult jobs.  I have a stack of high grit sandpaper from previous projects.  I'll go back to the isopropyl alcohol, I guess nothing beats tried and true solvents.



Monsterzero said:


> I use fine grit sandpaper(3000) first,then use Deoxit on a cotton swab to get off any muck,then use dry swabs to clean off residual Deoxit on pins and base.



I've been using the cotton swabs for removal as well, but I still can't seem to get it all.  Maybe I am too impatient.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've been using the cotton swabs for removal as well, but I still can't seem to get it all.  Maybe I am too impatient.


 I would imagine that if youre using a lot of Deoxit on the pins it would be a chore. As I said,I apply it on a swab,so very little is actually being applied. I would assume iso alcohol would serve the same purpose.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> I stopped using Deoxit for these reasons. At a minimum I find you'll need to use IPA after using Deoxit. These days I do what a lot of others do on here: use some fine sand/grit paper and then IPA on the pins. I forgot the number of the sandpaper (maybe 500?), but I can check later or you can search on here. Less material in the amp sockets the better.




Same here


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I like this guy's approach, using a nail polishing drill.  Might lead to a successful career as a manicurist, you never know.



Think I'll stick to the sand paper and IPA though, thanks for your 2¢ gentlemen.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Welp!  Well thanks @leftside , I'll probably move away from using it then, it's just such a friggin' mess.
> 
> Maybe I will reserve it for particularly difficult jobs.  I have a stack of high grit sandpaper from previous projects.  I'll go back to the isopropyl alcohol, I guess nothing beats tried and true solvents.
> 
> ...



I use a dremel tool with a small wire wheel. It cleans everything off pins are like new. They also have a brass wire wheel if you
want less aggressive cleaning.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> I use a dremel tool with a small wire wheel. It cleans everything off pins are like new. They also have a brass wire wheel if you
> want less aggressive cleaning.



I have a dremel tool...not sure why I didn't think of it before, especially after posting the video above.  Thanks, Glenn, I'll have to see what attachments I have.  Probably will do a test run on a bad tube first.


----------



## 2359glenn

2359glenn said:


> I use a dremel tool with a small wire wheel. It cleans everything off pins are like new. They also have a brass wire wheel if you
> want less aggressive cleaning.



Just be sure to were glasses or some kind of safety glasses as some of the wires come flying off when doing this.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Hi, Matt, the AU sellers always request over US$35 for shipping to the states. Do they make profit on shipping? Thx.



I think Leftside have answered the question. I do not think sellers are out to make profit on shipping. International shipping is always expensive. Shipping is always expensive for me when I buy from US or Europe. Some more so than others. I find for example, Langrex shipping rate is the cheapest for me.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Wait, which amp are you planning to use these tubes? Just curious.



You have probably missed all those pictures posted here of EL3N, EL8, EL11 being used in the c3g sockets of the GOTL.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have a dremel tool...not sure why I didn't think of it before, especially after posting the video above.  Thanks, Glenn, I'll have to see what attachments I have.  Probably will do a test run on a bad tube first.



I do this to solder pins of the tube sockets before soldering so they are clean.
Especially the Loktal sockets with silver pins they get covered with silver oxide. The good thing about silver is that silver oxide is just as conductive
as silver. But it does stop the solder from flowing and sticking but clean silver solders great.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Tough decision. Here's a picture showing the differences between an Osram KT66, Fivre 6L6G and Fivre 6V6G.



Tough decision indeed but it would make sense to make use of those nice tubes we've already collected. In my case the EL tubes and for you those gorgeous tubes you have here.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> I do this to solder pins of the tube sockets before soldering so they are clean.
> Especially the Loktal sockets with silver pins they get covered with silver oxide. The good thing about silver is that silver oxide is just as conductive
> as silver. But it does stop the solder from flowing and sticking but clean silver solders great.



That is great attention to detail, probably one reason you build fantastic amps.

All this pin-cleaning talk is due to a noisy Osram L63 I have, trying to avoid a return to the UK.  Cleaning the pins with Deoxit, sandpaper, and IPA hasn't fixed the issue.  It seems to be picking up noise from the amp since it is positional.  If I rotate Deyan's adapter, the noise gets louder and softer as it moves, a sweet spot will fix the issue temporarily, but it comes back.

Anyone ever cured a tube that picked up interference?  Using low-gain power tubes makes it tolerable.  Otherwise, they sound fantastic.


----------



## 2359glenn

Send it back!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Send it back!!!!!!!!!!



I was on the fence, now I'm off, back it goes!  Too bad, they were physically pristine, but I didn't buy them to stare at them.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Are they better than the C3g, or just for fun?



Well, if it ain't fun I don't do it! lol

I wouldn't say that they are better than the C3g, but to my ears, they are equal. And since there are really only two flavors of the C3g, Siemens and Lorenz, the EL11, EL3N and similar pentodes expand the tone pallet, different flavors if you will, and some of them are among my favorites.


----------



## attmci (Aug 14, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I think Leftside have answered the question. I do not think sellers are out to make profit on shipping. International shipping is always expensive. Shipping is always expensive for me when I buy from US or Europe. Some more so than others. I find for example, Langrex shipping rate is the cheapest for me.


I hope so. 

I had purchased three Bendix 6080 from AU several years ago. I saw good deals later, but don't want to pay that much for shipping.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Well, if it ain't fun I don't do it! lol
> 
> I wouldn't say that they are better than the C3g, but to my ears, they are equal. And since there are really only two flavors of the C3g, Siemens and Lorenz, the EL11, EL3N and similar pentodes expand the tone pallet, different flavors if you will, and some of them are among my favorites.


I thought you want to add another amp to your collections like Matt.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> I thought you want to add another amp to your collections like Matt.



Nope. I am much more of a tube roller than an audiophile, so the GOTL is all and everything I need.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> That is great attention to detail, probably one reason you build fantastic amps.
> 
> All this pin-cleaning talk is due to a noisy Osram L63 I have, trying to avoid a return to the UK.  Cleaning the pins with Deoxit, sandpaper, and IPA hasn't fixed the issue.  It seems to be picking up noise from the amp since it is positional.  If I rotate Deyan's adapter, the noise gets louder and softer as it moves, a sweet spot will fix the issue temporarily, but it comes back.
> 
> Anyone ever cured a tube that picked up interference?  Using low-gain power tubes makes it tolerable.  Otherwise, they sound fantastic.


Hi LG,
I have a Valvo EL12 that picked up a lot of interference. I found an inelegant solution by making a Faraday cage around it. In practice it meant taking a piece of aluminum foil and wrapping it loosely around the tube. Somehow turning the foil around the tube and finding a suitable position, I could diminish the interference.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I thought you want to add another amp to your collections like Matt.



Wait till you see and hear Berlin, you would want one in your collection too. 

In the meantime, I've to ensure I have enough EL11s to last me a lifetime, so I bought these Triotron EL11s. Who and what is Triotron, @gibosi ? The top of the tube construction looks like my Telefunken EL11. 

Anyway I did a google and I saw @leftside have so many Triotron ECC32, ECC33, ECC34 and GZ34 metal base.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> The EL11 and EL3N are electrically identical. But of course an EL11 manufactured by Telefunken sounds different than an EL3N manufactured by Philips in Holland. However, it is relatively easy to remove the German octal base from a Telefunken EL11 and install a European side-contact base. And voila, you have a Telefunken EL3N. And in fact, you could even install an American octal base, but I have no idea what you would call it.


You could try calling it EL33 or EL3NG or 6M6G. 

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el33.html


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I guess I can use these Yamamoto sockets.  Don't really want to use cheep sockets from China.  Jacmusic part # 320-041-28
> http://www.jacmusic.com/



Don't forget the Yamamoto's sockets Glenn. Gosh all the discussions of last year are coming back but this time it's a go.


----------



## whirlwind

Good decision to use those sockets...built to last


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Don't forget the Yamamoto's sockets Glenn. Gosh all the discussions of last year are coming back but this time it's a go.



I was getting around to looking for Yamamoto sockets and wanted to ask if you wanted to pay the extra money for them.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes Yamamoto’s socket for the rectifier too. Thanks.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> I have a Valvo EL12 that picked up a lot of interference. I found an inelegant solution by making a Faraday cage around it. In practice it meant taking a piece of aluminum foil and wrapping it loosely around the tube. Somehow turning the foil around the tube and finding a suitable position, I could diminish the interference.



Ah, the old Faraday Cage, it is worth a try.  The seller offered me a partial refund for the noisy tube, but I will keep both.  Works for me, as I would spend nearly 25% of the cost to ship them back.  I will either build a Faraday Cage or just keep the single functioning tube as a spare for my other pair of MOV L63.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 15, 2019)

Oskari said:


> You could try calling it EL33 or EL3NG or 6M6G.
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el33.html



Billington has some EL33 in stock (EL3N with octal base), Martin offered them to me when they were found to be out of EL3N.  Unsure if there are enough in the wild to warrant building the amp for them specifically, but it sure would make the adapter situation more simple, not having to worry about the side contact bases.

Like so:


----------



## Deyan

Mhhm.....what will I do then?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 15, 2019)

Deyan said:


> Mhhm.....what will I do then?



Would still need octal adapters for other power tubes e.g., EL34!  I am thinking of the EL3N amp.  Unless someone finds a stockpile of these guys, I don't they'll get much action.  The appeal of the EL3N is they are plentiful and cheap.

Edit: Actually looks like Langrex has 150 EL33 according to their stock list.


----------



## Deyan

L0rdGwyn said:


> Would still need octal adapters for other power tubes e.g., EL34!  I am thinking of the EL3N amp.  Unless someone finds a stockpile of these guys, I don't they'll get much action.  The appeal of the EL3N is they are plentiful and cheap.



I was joking. Pretty sure adapter building won't last forever so I preparing mentally to move on.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Deyan said:


> I was joking. Pretty sure adapter building won't last forever so I preparing mentally to move on.



Ha!  Well as long as Glenn is cranking out amplifiers, you'll have adapter demand here I'm sure of it.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> so I bought these Triotron EL11s. Who and what is Triotron, @gibosi ? The top of the tube construction looks like my Telefunken EL11.



Triotron was the brand name for tubes manufactured by Radiowerk E. Schrack, Vienna, starting in about 1926. However, in 1939, Philips acquired control of Schrack and Triotron and changed the name to Wiener Radio Works (WIRAG).

Google is pretty sketchy, but it appears that Philips continued to use the Triotron brand in Britain, but only as a distributor, not a manufacturer. So there is no way to know for sure who manufactured these later Triotron tubes, but since the brand was owned by Philips, I think it is likely that those EL11 were manufactured by a Philips subsidiary. But until you have them in your hands and examine them closely, you won't know for sure.


----------



## gibosi

Deyan said:


> I was joking. Pretty sure adapter building won't last forever so I preparing mentally to move on.



Speaking of adapters, on the chance that I am not the only one running AZ4 and AZ12 rectifiers in a Glenn amp, Deyan can make a very nice adapter to take advantage of the amp's native support for the 3DG4. That is, there is no need to worry about power resisters to reduce 5 volts down to 4.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> not having to worry about the side contact bases


Question to @whirlwind and others who have GEL3N experience:
Are the side contacts a reason for concern, if upgrading the sockets to Yamamoto and NOT planning on tube rolling with this beauty?


----------



## Deyan

gibosi said:


> Speaking of adapters, on the chance that I am not the only one running AZ4 and AZ12 rectifiers in a Glenn amp, Deyan can make a very nice adapter to take advantage of the amp's native support for the 3DG4. That is, there is no need to worry about power resisters to reduce 5 volts down to 4.



That and I have a prototype EL11 to EL3 on the way made on request by @UntilThen 
I'll upload a picture of the concept in about an hour.


----------



## rosgr63

Monsterzero said:


> @rosgr63 sent me a mouse ear. It sounds good,but it wont make you want to take out your BGRP.



Actually this humble type is on of my favourite 6SN7's.
The black plates are the best sounding ones.


----------



## Deyan

New adapter day ( again )
EL11 to EL3



 

 

 
Don't mind the broken socket on top, it's only a test fit.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Giving the 7802s a break and trying a new roll, Sylvania 6BL7GT T-plate.  These are some good sounding tubes!  But then I ask myself, aren't they all in the GOTL?  Just different flavors of good/great/amazing/life-altering.

The MOV L63 are sticking around.  Definitely one of my best drivers, haven't done a head-to-head with the other heavyweight 6J5s yet, looking forward to it at some point.  The Visseaux 6J5G might make them sweat a little bit.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Anyway I did a google and I saw @leftside have so many Triotron ECC32, ECC33, ECC34 and GZ34 metal base.





gibosi said:


> Triotron was the brand name for tubes manufactured by Radiowerk E. Schrack, Vienna, starting in about 1926. However, in 1939, Philips acquired control of Schrack and Triotron and changed the name to Wiener Radio Works (WIRAG).
> 
> Google is pretty sketchy, but it appears that Philips continued to use the Triotron brand in Britain, but only as a distributor, not a manufacturer. So there is no way to know for sure who manufactured these later Triotron tubes, but since the brand was owned by Philips, I think it is likely that those EL11 were manufactured by a Philips subsidiary. But until you have them in your hands and examine them closely, you won't know for sure.


All of my Triotron branded tubes are Mullards. @gibosi covers the company well. Further details can be found here:
www.cast.uni-linz.ac.at/Department/Publications/2015/2015_1.doc


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> The MOV L63 are sticking around.  Definitely one of my best drivers, haven't done a head-to-head with the other heavyweight 6J5s yet, looking forward to it at some point.  The Visseaux 6J5G might make them sweat a little bit.


Give them a few hours, they might calm down. They are very old tubes.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 15, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Question to @whirlwind and others who have GEL3N experience:
> Are the side contacts a reason for concern, if upgrading the sockets to Yamamoto and NOT planning on tube rolling with this beauty?



No worries at all as long as you get the Yamamoto sockets...I would in no way get the Chinese sockets...I don't think Glenn will even use anything but Yamamoto in the GEL3N amp.

Speaking of adapters, Deyan's adapters arrived today....man what a killer job you did on these Deyan.... thanks much sir!
Great snug fit and they sit nice and low on the chassis.....first round of tubes should be here next week some time.
Mullard EL34 XF2's single top getters from 1973.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Triotron was the brand name for tubes manufactured by Radiowerk E. Schrack, Vienna, starting in about 1926. However, in 1939, Philips acquired control of Schrack and Triotron and changed the name to Wiener Radio Works (WIRAG).
> 
> Google is pretty sketchy, but it appears that Philips continued to use the Triotron brand in Britain, but only as a distributor, not a manufacturer. So there is no way to know for sure who manufactured these later Triotron tubes, but since the brand was owned by Philips, I think it is likely that those EL11 were manufactured by a Philips subsidiary. But until you have them in your hands and examine them closely, you won't know for sure.



Thanks Ken. Always good to know the history.


----------



## UntilThen

Deyan said:


> New adapter day ( again )
> EL11 to EL3



Deyan, great work as usual. You're a master of the craft.

It's look like I'm going with Y8A Pin tube sockets for the EL11, etc. So later on, I might need EL3N to EL11 adapters and EL34 to EL11 adapters.... if I feel the need to experiment.

However, I'm sure you'll find some interest in these EL11 to EL3 adapters amongst the owners of GEL3N amps.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Speaking of adapters, Deyan's adapters arrived today....man what a killer job you did on these Deyan.... thanks much sir!
> Great snug fit and they sit nice and low on the chassis.....first round of tubes should be here next week some time.
> Mullard EL34 XF2's single top getters from 1973.



Beautiful. Even a fussy pot like me can accept that. 

Waiting to hear how the Mullard EL34 will sound in your amp.


----------



## Deyan

EL3 to EL11 might be a bit tricky but I think I have an idea.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Speaking of adapters, on the chance that I am not the only one running AZ4 and AZ12 rectifiers in a Glenn amp, Deyan can make a very nice adapter to take advantage of the amp's native support for the 3DG4. That is, there is no need to worry about power resisters to reduce 5 volts down to 4.




I had Deyan make me one of these adapters also...making it to the 3DG4 and the amps native support makes my mind much more at ease


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Beautiful. Even a fussy pot like me can accept that.
> 
> Waiting to hear how the Mullard EL34 will sound in your amp.




I can be a fussy old pot also.....my wife can VERIFY!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I can be a fussy old pot also.....my wife can VERIFY!



You know Joe, that EL34 to EL3N adapter is a new dawn for your GEL3N amp.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I had Deyan make me one of these adapters also...making it to the 3DG4 and the amps native support makes my mind much more at ease



If I can get one of those bald headed mesh plate rectifier, I'd be willing to get one of those adapter too.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> No worries at all as long as you get the Yamamoto sockets...


Thanks Joe. Definitely no Chinese sockets for me!


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Great snug fit and they sit nice and low on the chassis.....first round of tubes should be here next week some time.
> Mullard EL34 XF2's single top getters from 1973


WOW!  Gorgeous looking adapters. 
Joe - what's the advantage of EL34 in the EL3N amp?  Is it just "different tonality" or is there other advantages?


----------



## attmci

Current market price for a BGRP?

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/312727003908?item=312727003908&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565


----------



## ColtMrFire

Wondering if anyone's heard/owned the Torpedo 3 and compared to the Glenn amps.  Looking to possibly upgrade


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Anyone using Deoxit have a tried and true method?  I recently started using the "Vacuum Tube Survival Kit" with the higher concentration cleaner.  The included brushes and very nice.  Before I was just using isopropyl alcohol.  What I am finding is that following the recommended method of leaving the pins to soak overnight is inefficient and uses too much product (how convenient for them).  It also leaves a hard to remove residue on the pins and base, this stuff does not clean off easily, and I'm not keen on gumming up my GOTL sockets.  The only reasonable way to remove it seems to be an isopropyl alcohol bath at the end.  Overall, not impressed.
> 
> Any tips are welcome, thanks.


Steel wool is what I use.  Proper cleaning afterward is very important though, as you don't want a stray strand to accidentally bridge a connection between two pins.  Unless the oxidation is severe I find the wool really smooths the pins and makes socket insert nicer.  I sort of roll some into a little rope and loop it around the pin and slide back and forth, then pass over the tops that don't get hit by that first motion.  Second step is Deoxit, let it sit for 5 minutes and penetrate a bit.  Third step is cleaning  with alcohol.  I do both steps using Q-tips.  It's important to clean with alcohol after using deoxit because that stuff will make a mess inside your sockets, especially if it builds up from inserting many different tubes.

I'm sure there are many approaches that work, but this is what I cooked up when I got into tubes.  One thing I won't do is use a tube that hasn't gone through this yet.  Getting stuff into the sockets is a major pain and much harder to clean than tube pins.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Wait till you see and hear Berlin, you would want one in your collection too.
> 
> In the meantime, I've to ensure I have enough EL11s to last me a lifetime, so I bought these Triotron EL11s. Who and what is Triotron, @gibosi ? The top of the tube construction looks like my Telefunken EL11.
> 
> Anyway I did a google and I saw @leftside have so many Triotron ECC32, ECC33, ECC34 and GZ34 metal base.


Hi UT,
 Here is a tube from my EL11 collection:




This EL11 with the square logo looks similar your Triotron tubes. This tube is labeled Valvo and has the number 706 three times on the base in white letters. Looking underneath at the tube base it is written 2T in white lettering.
It is possible that this is a Tungsram tube - the 2T date code is October 1967.
I have another two ST shaped Valvo labeled EL11 tubes but they are very different looking.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy there is a NOS pair of Tungsram EL11 for sale. The top of the tube is very different to my Telefunken EL11 and the Triotron EL11. I’m thinking of getting the Tungsram just to compare. Same seller as the Triotron EL11.


----------



## UntilThen

Bought it. Just about bought all the NOS EL11s pair under the sun.


----------



## UntilThen

Another addition to the EL11 tubes. A Tungsram EL11 with boxes. Notice the construction of the top of the tube. This is very different from my Telefunken EL11. It is also different from my RFT EL11, Philips Miniwatt EL11. I'll have to check the Siemens and Triotron EL11 when they arrive.


----------



## UntilThen

The Mullard GZ34 also arrived. It's so new, like hot off the press. The seller says it's a military issue.


----------



## UntilThen

Total count of EL tubes so far:-

2 x Telefunken EL11
2 x RFT EL11
2 x Philips Miniwatt EL11
2 x Siemens EL11
2 x Triotron EL11
2 x Tungsram EL11

2 x Siemens EL12
2 x RFT EL12N
2 x Telefunken EL12 spez
2 x Tesla EL12sp

That's enough !


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> You know Joe, that EL34 to EL3N adapter is a new dawn for your GEL3N amp.



Maybe, we shall see how some of  these other tubes hold up to the EL3N in this amp......when considering the price of the EL3N tubes and add that to the performance you get from it
I can't see it losing the price/performance war...but maybe some of the other tubes could sound better....time will tell.




Joe - what's the advantage of EL34 in the EL3N amp?  Is it just "different tonality" or is there other advantages?[/QUOTE]

I don't have the EL34 tubes yet, they should be here some time next week......just be different tonality I believe.
The EL3N tubes in this amp run extremely cool, this amp does not even come remotely close to producing the heat that the OTL amp does.
I am not sure if this will be the case with the EL34 tubes in the power position, we shall see.


----------



## UntilThen

This has been shown before but for anyone new, you might be interested in the EL34 story. 

EL3N, EL11, EL12, EL6, EL8, EL13 all came before EL60 which became the forerunner of EL34.

https://translate.google.com/transl...bude.de/EL34-Story/EL34-Story.htm&prev=search


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Steel wool is what I use.  Proper cleaning afterward is very important though, as you don't want a stray strand to accidentally bridge a connection between two pins.  Unless the oxidation is severe I find the wool really smooths the pins and makes socket insert nicer.  I sort of roll some into a little rope and loop it around the pin and slide back and forth, then pass over the tops that don't get hit by that first motion.  Second step is Deoxit, let it sit for 5 minutes and penetrate a bit.  Third step is cleaning  with alcohol.  I do both steps using Q-tips.  It's important to clean with alcohol after using deoxit because that stuff will make a mess inside your sockets, especially if it builds up from inserting many different tubes.
> 
> I'm sure there are many approaches that work, but this is what I cooked up when I got into tubes.  One thing I won't do is use a tube that hasn't gone through this yet.  Getting stuff into the sockets is a major pain and much harder to clean than tube pins.



Thanks for your input, I'll consider it.  I will probably move away from the Deoxit, I am finding it too time consuming and messy to use.  But steel wool is something to consider.  I'm having good success with 3000 grit sandpaper followed by IPA with a Q-tip, would be great to have a more efficient process though.  I'm staring down my trove of 6BX7 tubes, I might be cleaning them for weeks!  There is something relaxing though about listening to some great music while keeping busy cleaning tube pins.

I may look into using a Dremel in some fashion, hopefully with an attachment that will clean the pins well but won't annihilate the tube if I make a mistake.  Will take some trial and error.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks for your input, I'll consider it.  I will probably move away from the Deoxit, I am finding it too time consuming and messy to use.  But steel wool is something to consider.  I'm having good success with 3000 grit sandpaper followed by IPA with a Q-tip, would be great to have a more efficient process though.  I'm staring down my trove of 6BX7 tubes, I might be cleaning them for weeks!  There is something relaxing though about listening to some great music while keeping busy cleaning tube pins.
> 
> I may look into using a Dremel in some fashion, hopefully with an attachment that will clean the pins well but won't annihilate the tube if I make a mistake.  Will take some trial and error.


The Dremel tool is just a very high speed type of drill tool with very little torque. The one I have has variable speed from 5000-35000 RPM. You attach different tools in the same fashion as drill bits.
Using a wire brush goes very quickly and only requires a very light touch.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> The Dremel tool is just a very high speed type of drill tool with very little torque. The one I have has variable speed from 5000-35000 RPM. You attach different tools in the same fashion as drill bits.
> Using a wire brush goes very quickly and only requires a very light touch.



Yes, I own a Dremel, have not experimented with it yet for tube cleaning.  How does one clean the interior of the pins without affecting the center alignment key?  I would imagine that would take a very precise wire brush attachment.

Maybe something like this?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Starting this Friday off in a smooth and relaxed fashion, my all MOV setup, Osram L63 inputs, MWT 6080WA outputs, paired with the ZMF Atticus and a good cup of coffee.
_
 _


----------



## nishan99

Hi folks 
I have question about the power output of the GOTL with the most powerful 6x low impedance tubes, how much power can I expect under a 32 Ohm load?


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 16, 2019)

nishan99 said:


> Hi folks
> I have question about the power output of the GOTL with the most powerful 6x low impedance tubes, how much power can I expect under a 32 Ohm load?



You will get the most power with a pair of 6336 tubes or four 6AS7 type that is all the amp can handle.
This will put out a max of 2 watts.
For driving 32 ohms the EL3N amp will be better but more expensive.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> You will get the most power with a pair of 6336 tubes or four 6AS7 type that is all the amp can handle.
> This will put out a max of 2 watts.
> For driving 32 ohms the EL3N amp will be better but more expensive.



Still doing the 12x GEC A2293 experiment, Glenn?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Another addition to the EL11 tubes. A Tungsram EL11 with boxes. Notice the construction of the top of the tube. This is very different from my Telefunken EL11. It is also different from my RFT EL11, Philips Miniwatt EL11. I'll have to check the Siemens and Triotron EL11 when they arrive.



They look like the Tungsram EL3's I have got a box full of them for $15 each all new in box.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Still doing the 12x GEC A2293 experiment, Glenn?



Yes as soon as I get some more money.
My medical bills keep me broke the chemotherapy drug costs $24500 a month. I get a $400 a month co pay.
Expensive to stay alive!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 16, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Yes as soon as I get some more money.
> My medical bills keep me broke the chemotherapy drug costs $24500 a month. I get a $400 a month co pay.
> Expensive to stay alive!



I'm sorry to hear it, I work in healthcare, the costs in the USA are astronomical.  Consumers have no bargaining power with pharmaceutical companies and the government will not regulate their prices because of their lobbying power.  Hopefully we can change that in the near future, but I digress, wishing you the best.

Hopefully you can give that combo a shot soon, could be a game-changer.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> They look like the Tungsram EL3's I have got a box full of them for $15 each all new in box.



I wish there are box full of EL11s. They are almost non existent now. Perhaps you can ask your supplier.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, I own a Dremel, have not experimented with it yet for tube cleaning.  How does one clean the interior of the pins without affecting the center alignment key?  I would imagine that would take a very precise wire brush attachment.
> I haven't done it yet, but I am sure that Glenn can advise you what to use.
> Maybe something like this?


----------



## UntilThen

Only madness makes me want to pursue an amp made for EL11 and EL12.

Look at this EL12 beauty.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Only madness makes me want to pursue an amp made for EL11 and EL12.
> 
> Look at this EL12 beauty.


This amp needs the EL12 Spez tubes......


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I am always in search of a new highly inconvenient, tedious, and time-consuming project, so I will get one of these attachments and report back my findings.


----------



## OctavianH

Does anyone know if the "built-in" Hexfred differs in the circuitry from the Hexfred adapter? In other words, if there is any disadvantage in ordering the GOTL with octal rectifier socket instead of built-in Hexfred, except the crying wallet for the Rectifier tube. Any loss in dynamics?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

OctavianH said:


> Does anyone know if the "built-in" Hexfred differs in the circuitry from the Hexfred adapter? In other words, if there is any disadvantage in ordering the GOTL with octal rectifier socket instead of built-in Hexfred, except the crying wallet for the Rectifier tube. Any loss in dynamics?



Glenn, please correct me if I am wrong.

If you opt for the Lundahl transformer, it is wired for solid-state rectification, a  full-wave bridge rectifier with four diodes.

For tube rectification with the Lundahl transformer, Glenn replaces two of the four diodes with the two sections of the rectifier tube.  The two diodes and the two sections of the tube form the full-wave bridge rectifier.

If you use the HEXFRED socket, you replace the two tube sections to create a four diode rectifier.  It is equivalent to having the HEXFRED rectifier built in.

Here is a quote from Glenn explaining the two power supply options:



2359glenn said:


> Let me try to clarify this transformer thing.
> The US made transformer is custom made for this amp. It has 3 secondary winding's. One is high voltage 530 volts center taped or 265-0-265
> This is for a 2 diode bridge rectifier that most rectifier tubes are. And it is 15 volts over to compensate for the voltage drop in the tube.
> It has a single 6.3 volt 13 amp secondary for all amplifier tubes.
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> Does anyone know if the "built-in" Hexfred differs in the circuitry from the Hexfred adapter? In other words, if there is any disadvantage in ordering the GOTL with octal rectifier socket instead of built-in Hexfred, except the crying wallet for the Rectifier tube. Any loss in dynamics?



From all the toe tapping and head bobbing from owners of GOTL with tube rectifiers, I don't think there are any shortages of dynamics. So whether it's Fred or Fredless, this OTL amp is going to be a blast. Your choice then would be one of aesthetics. Differences in builtin hexfred and plug in hexfred would IMO be very minute.


----------



## OctavianH

Many thanks mylord for the comprehensive explanation. Even if I read a lot on the thread, I was not able to find this information. Any audible differences between the hexfred plug-in and a tube rectifier?


----------



## Monsterzero

OctavianH said:


> Many thanks mylord for the comprehensive explanation. Even if I read a lot on the thread, I was not able to find this information. Any audible differences between the hexfred plug-in and a tube rectifier?



Absolutely. HEXFRED has a pretty tight,uniform sound.
Tube rectifiers are like any other tube,as they change the sound based upon which rectifier you plug in. However, IMO the rectifier choice doesnt impact the sound as much as the driver or power tubes does, but its still significant.
My plug-in rectifier has a permanent home in my cupboard 'O tubes. I much prefer tubes in that slot.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

OctavianH said:


> Many thanks mylord for the comprehensive explanation. Even if I read a lot on the thread, I was not able to find this information. Any audible differences between the hexfred plug-in and a tube rectifier?



I cannot say as I have HEXFRED, I bought my GOTL second-hand while I was in the queue, however, this was my preference anyway.  Call it an attempt at a more simple life 

But those who have the ability to roll rectifiers would absolutely say there are difference in sound.  I remember reading somewhere the HEXFRED sounds similar to a well-regarded Cossor rectifier.  But there is no shortage of tubes to roll in the GOTL, just have to ask yourself if you want to add more variety.


----------



## OctavianH

L0rdGwyn said:


> I cannot say as I have HEXFRED, I bought my GOTL second-hand while I was in the queue, however, this was my preference anyway.  Call it an attempt at a more simple life
> 
> But those who have the ability to roll rectifiers would absolutely say there are difference in sound.  I remember reading somewhere the HEXFRED sounds similar to a well-regarded Cossor rectifier.  But there is no shortage of tubes to roll in the GOTL, just have to ask yourself if you want to add more variety.



I have no problem in adding variables as long and I do not find a real disadvantage, from the audible point of view. I have to admit I never tried a tube amp with hexfred rectification. Since I listen mostly to rock music which is fast and intense, I try to find out if the tube rectifier will be a downside or if the hexfred plug-in will not match the built-in one in terms of performance.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I cannot say as I have HEXFRED, I bought my GOTL second-hand while I was in the queue, however, this was my preference anyway.  Call it an attempt at a more simple life
> 
> But those who have the ability to roll rectifiers would absolutely say there are difference in sound.  I remember reading somewhere the HEXFRED sounds similar to a well-regarded Cossor rectifier.  But there is no shortage of tubes to roll in the GOTL, just have to ask yourself if you want to add more variety.



You have the HEXFRED in your amp.


----------



## mordy

If I want to use two headphones at the same time in the GOTL, using the XLR socket for a 1/4" headphone connector, what kind of of adapter should I look for?


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 16, 2019)

mordy said:


> If I want to use two headphones at the same time in the GOTL, using the XLR socket for a 1/4" headphone connector, what kind of of adapter should I look for?



Just get a adapter for a stereo 1/4" jack to 4 pin XLR.
Why when the amp has a 1/4" TRS on it?
Or you can get a stereo 1/4" Y adapter one 1/4" male to two 1/4" females.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Just get a adapter for a stereo 1/4" jack to 4 pin XLR.
> Why when the amp has a 1/4" TRS on it?


Wanted to have two headphones plugged in at the same time - is it possible? 
Cannot find an adapter with a male 4 pin XLR to female 1/4 headphone plug.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glenn, please correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> If you opt for the Lundahl transformer, it is wired for solid-state rectification, a  full-wave bridge rectifier with four diodes.
> 
> ...


Good stuff - added to my publicly shared GOTL Google doc!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> You have the HEXFRED in your amp.



Thanks Glenn, I know my amp is HEXFRED, trying to help @OctavianH , he wanted to know if there was any disadvantage to using the HEXFRED socket adapter vs. having the rectifier built directly into the amp.


----------



## attmci

pippen99 said:


> I have been through 3 upgrades and the SQ has improved each time.  The Bridge II is another whole thing as the firmware is third party (Conversdigital) which the founder Paul McGowan has sworn never to do again.  Of course there will always be some who don't appreciate that it wasn't perfect the first time but then it never would have reached the public in the first place.  Headphones and amps come and go but my DSD DAC stays.
> 
> P.S.:  The firmware upgrades are FREE!


But frankly, if you are a fan of DSD records, the $899 Bridge II is a total failure.


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Still doing the 12x GEC A2293 experiment, Glenn?



I'm wondering if it really needs to be 12?  The output impedance wouldn't be too bad with 6 I would think, and it would make everything simpler and cheaper.  I guess we don't have to be stuck with those multiples either...... could do 8 too.  Twelve just seems like a lot of tubes, a lot of coupling caps, a lot of heat....... all for a little bit lower output impedance?


----------



## Xcalibur255

OctavianH said:


> I have no problem in adding variables as long and I do not find a real disadvantage, from the audible point of view. I have to admit I never tried a tube amp with hexfred rectification. Since I listen mostly to rock music which is fast and intense, I try to find out if the tube rectifier will be a downside or if the hexfred plug-in will not match the built-in one in terms of performance.



Very easy to hear differences.  I guess it depends on what you are focusing on.  Both myself and a number of other members here feel the Hexfred sound is a little on the dark and mellow side in terms of tone, but how much of this is due to the diodes and how much due to the change in voltage drop is hard to say.  The clear and measurable difference is that there is no voltage drop, where as with a tube rectifier there would be anywhere between 20 and 60 volts of loss which changes the operating points of the other tubes in the amp.  This is the primary reason why rolling rectifiers can change the character of an amp.  It's inducing a change in behavior from the other tubes.  The Hexfreds aren't noticeably more or less dynamic than a tube rectifier to my ears, though they have substantially better bass speed and control which you might choose to interpret as a more dynamic sound if you wanted to.  I also found them to offer superior resolution and low level detail over tube rectifiers.  Unless you specifically want your amp to have a brighter sound the Hexfreds are kind of a slam dunk if you ask me.

The other main audible difference comes from the amount of diode switching noise.  This is where I feel the Hexfred really earns its keep and is the reason why I don't use tube rectifiers in my amp anymore.  The Hexfred is a more refined and grain free sound that has less hardness and glare than any rectifier I ever owned or heard, and I believe that is mostly due to the fact that there is less switching and hash noise from these diodes compared to a tube diode.

The main downside is you lose the gentle and slow start up that tube rectifiers naturally have, but Glenn has ways of dealing with this so it's not really a problem.

As for a difference between having Hexfred in a removable socket adapter or having it built into the amp, I really doubt there would be any difference substantial enough to be able to hear it.  It's the same diodes either way.  If you want to preserve your ability to roll in different options then the adapters are the safe route, but if you are confident you would like the Hexfred sound you can eliminate one or two tube sockets from the amp and free up space for the chassis to be smaller or for other things to be up there depending on what you have in mind.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 17, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Very easy to hear differences.  I guess it depends on what you are focusing on.  Both myself and a number of other members here feel the Hexfred sound is a little on the dark and mellow side in terms of tone, but how much of this is due to the diodes and how much due to the change in voltage drop is hard to say.  The clear and measurable difference is that there is no voltage drop, where as with a tube rectifier there would be anywhere between 20 and 60 volts of loss which changes the operating points of the other tubes in the amp.  This is the primary reason why rolling rectifiers can change the character of an amp.  It's inducing a change in behavior from the other tubes.  The Hexfreds aren't noticeably more or less dynamic than a tube rectifier to my ears, though they have substantially better bass speed and control which you might choose to interpret as a more dynamic sound if you wanted to.  I also found them to offer superior resolution and low level detail over tube rectifiers.  Unless you specifically want your amp to have a brighter sound the Hexfreds are kind of a slam dunk if you ask me.
> 
> The other main audible difference comes from the amount of diode switching noise.  This is where I feel the Hexfred really earns its keep and is the reason why I don't use tube rectifiers in my amp anymore.  The Hexfred is a more refined and grain free sound that has less hardness and glare than any rectifier I ever owned or heard, and I believe that is mostly due to the fact that there is less switching and hash noise from these diodes compared to a tube diode.
> 
> ...


@Xcalibur255 interesting and helpful info. on Hexfreds. From your description sounds like I may go with Hexfreds too, especially the sound having better bass control and speed, and resolution... but doesn't that change depending on how good of rectifier tubes you're comparing it with?

For the next questions, excuse me for sounding like a noob but I'm coming from the simple 4-tube OTL Feliks Audio amp with drivers/powers of the same socket type.
- Does the Hexfred option even apply to a new GEL3N amp, or is it only for OTL amps?
- Can someone PLEASE post a photo of the Hexfred? For the life of me I can't decipher which photo on Google Images resembles one. (I have no idea what it looks like)
- Is there such a thing as Hexfred rolling, such as op-amp rolling? If so, what is the terminology of the removable component?
- Which is more recommended for low-z cans, either the Hexfred or tube rectifiers, and 1 or 2 tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

Found a picture of the plug in hexfred posted by @gibosi . https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1181#post-13957334

Not much to look at.

Also in the GEL3N, you can order it with tube rectifier and get one of this plug in hexfred from Glenn or you can order your GEL3N with build in hexfred i.e no option to roll tube rectifiers. There hasn't been a GEL3N with a build in hexfred yet but I know one is coming.


----------



## rnros (Aug 17, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> - Can someone PLEASE post a photo of the Hexfred? For the life of me I can't decipher which photo on Google Images resembles one. (I have no idea what it looks like)



Datasheet:
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/427/vs-hfa25tb60-m3-1351200.pdf

There are different 'package' types, this one is TO-220. Other types for various build applications.
http://www.vishay.com/docs/49446/49446.pdf


----------



## OctavianH

Xcalibur255 said:


> Very easy to hear differences.  I guess it depends on what you are focusing on.  Both myself and a number of other members here feel the Hexfred sound is a little on the dark and mellow side in terms of tone, but how much of this is due to the diodes and how much due to the change in voltage drop is hard to say.  The clear and measurable difference is that there is no voltage drop, where as with a tube rectifier there would be anywhere between 20 and 60 volts of loss which changes the operating points of the other tubes in the amp.  This is the primary reason why rolling rectifiers can change the character of an amp.  It's inducing a change in behavior from the other tubes.  The Hexfreds aren't noticeably more or less dynamic than a tube rectifier to my ears, though they have substantially better bass speed and control which you might choose to interpret as a more dynamic sound if you wanted to.  I also found them to offer superior resolution and low level detail over tube rectifiers.  Unless you specifically want your amp to have a brighter sound the Hexfreds are kind of a slam dunk if you ask me.
> 
> The other main audible difference comes from the amount of diode switching noise.  This is where I feel the Hexfred really earns its keep and is the reason why I don't use tube rectifiers in my amp anymore.  The Hexfred is a more refined and grain free sound that has less hardness and glare than any rectifier I ever owned or heard, and I believe that is mostly due to the fact that there is less switching and hash noise from these diodes compared to a tube diode.
> 
> ...



Many thanks for your detailed answer. One last question, if we add the transformer type to this equation, is there any advantage or disadvantage in combining the rectifier socket with a Lundahl transformer? What I read and found out, thanks to @L0rdGwyn was that the Lundahl transformer version with octal rectifier socket has also 2 x Hexfreds inside and the rectifier is basicly wired to the positive polarity.


----------



## Khragon

Guys... I like to share that I've sold my Glenn 300B amp (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sold-glenn-300b-amp.911550/#post-15117835)

And.. I'm happy to report that the buyer is @zach915m of ZMF Headphones.  I'm a fan of ZMF headphones, having own every of Zach custom designed model from Eikon/Atticus up to the Auteur (both stock and black wood).
I know the amp pair really well with Zach headphones, and excited that Zach may take this amp on tour, giving everyone a chance to experience Glenn's amp, both OTL and 300B!

Look for Zach table at the next meet to hear both of Glenn's master creations.


----------



## DecentLevi

UntilThen said:


> Found a picture of the plug in hexfred posted by @gibosi . https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1181#post-13957334
> 
> Not much to look at.
> 
> Also in the GEL3N, you can order it with tube rectifier and get one of this plug in hexfred from Glenn or you can order your GEL3N with build in hexfred i.e no option to roll tube rectifiers. There hasn't been a GEL3N with a build in hexfred yet but I know one is coming.



Thanks much guys, that actually clears it up so fast. So the Hexfred is a brand of diode, which can run in the place of a rectifier either internally in place of or can be externally interchanged with rectifiers with adapter. I suppose that would also give us the option to swap with other diodes too right?

That being said, I think I will go with a GEL3N amp with tube rectifier and a plug in external Hexfred option... that along with multitudes of great EL and other tube rolling will leave me more than happy! @2359glenn - unless you think there's any merit to my concept for the switchable 6AS7G or 6336 add-on let me know, otherwise I'll happily go ahead with the above. Please let me know soon by PM to secure my place in line, thanks!!


----------



## UntilThen

Does a tube rectifier really make an amp sound better or does a solid state rectifier really make an amp sound better? Well it depends on what you're looking for. 

This article is written in an easily digestible manner. Although it referenced guitar amps, it should also apply to headphone tube amps.

https://reverb.com/au/news/does-a-tube-rectifier-really-make-an-amp-sound-better


----------



## UntilThen

Khragon said:


> Guys... I like to share that I've sold my Glenn 300B amp (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sold-glenn-300b-amp.911550/#post-15117835)
> 
> And.. I'm happy to report that the buyer is @zach915m of ZMF Headphones.  I'm a fan of ZMF headphones, having own every of Zach custom designed model from Eikon/Atticus up to the Auteur (both stock and black wood).
> I know the amp pair really well with Zach headphones, and excited that Zach may take this amp on tour, giving everyone a chance to experience Glenn's amp, both OTL and 300B!
> ...




Wow what can I say...   Congrats Zach !!!!

You're probably the first person to own all 3 Glenn's amps - OTL, GEL3N and now the 300b amp. I would expect a detail comparison of all 3 further down the track. .. with the ZMF headphones of course. 

I too have owned the Eikon and Atticus. A big mistake of mine to have sold them but I have a Verite Pheasantwood arriving on Tuesday !


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks much guys, that actually clears it up so fast. So the Hexfred is a brand of diode, which can run in the place of a rectifier either internally in place of or can be externally interchanged with rectifiers with adapter. I suppose that would also give us the option to swap with other diodes too right?
> 
> That being said, I think I will go with a GEL3N amp with tube rectifier and a plug in external Hexfred option...



Good decision on going with tube rectifier and a plug in hexfred. As for swapping other diodes.... well life shouldn't be that complicated.


----------



## UntilThen

Bought another pair of GEC 6080 so I can run quad GEC 6080 in the GOTL... for the Verite. This one from a local seller, so it's cheap for a less than 30 hours tubes.


----------



## OctavianH

Is it possible to use 3 x 6SN7 as drivers via 6SN7 -> C3g adapters? Has anyone made such an adapter? Maybe @Deyan ?
Or only a pair of 6SN7 via the C3g sockets? I am not sure if I really want this, just asking for the sake of "unlimited rolling options".


----------



## Deyan

OctavianH said:


> Is it possible to use 3 x 6SN7 as drivers via 6SN7 -> C3g adapters? Has anyone made such an adapter? Maybe @Deyan ?
> Or only a pair of 6SN7 via the C3g sockets? I am not sure if I really want this, just asking for the sake of "unlimited rolling options".



In which amp?? As far as I know the GOTL already uses the 6SN7 as a driver.


----------



## OctavianH

Deyan said:


> In which amp?? As far as I know the GOTL already uses the 6SN7 as a driver.



In the GOTL. Yes, you have in the maxed version as drivers 1 x 6SN7 + 2 x C3g and 6 x output sockets. But I was thinking to use all 3 driver sockets for 6SN7.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 17, 2019)

No you can't use dual 6sn7 in the c3g slots. Those slots are meant for pentodes in strapped triodes mode. You 6sn7 is a dual triode tube and it goes in the 6sn7 slot. Contrary to others experience, I don't find it beneficial to use 3 tubes as drivers. The GOTL was not designed for that. It's an accidental discovery.

For instance, why would I dilute the qualities of a ECC33 mixing it up with a pair of pentode as strapped triodes.


----------



## Deyan

Maybe a single 6SN7 with both triodes in parallel to C3g. But I can't really say. @2359glenn can tell us for sure.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Bought another pair of GEC 6080 so I can run quad GEC 6080 in the GOTL... for the Verite. This one from a local seller, so it's cheap for a less than 30 hours tubes.




These will create a good amount of heat, but should be killer with low z cans....tone will be much better than with 6336 tubes....IMO.....YMMV






Khragon said:


> Guys... I like to share that I've sold my Glenn 300B amp (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sold-glenn-300b-amp.911550/#post-15117835)
> 
> And.. I'm happy to report that the buyer is @zach915m of ZMF Headphones.  I'm a fan of ZMF headphones, having own every of Zach custom designed model from Eikon/Atticus up to the Auteur (both stock and black wood).
> I know the amp pair really well with Zach headphones, and excited that Zach may take this amp on tour, giving everyone a chance to experience Glenn's amp, both OTL and 300B!
> ...



Congrats to you Zach... always wanted to hear one of these.


----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> These will create a good amount of heat, but should be killer with low z cans....tone will be much better than with 6336 tubes....IMO.....YMMV
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Zach’s going to be in for a good time. ZMF headphones are just an amazing team.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Bought another pair of GEC 6080 so I can run quad GEC 6080 in the GOTL... for the Verite. This one from a local seller, so it's cheap for a less than 30 hours tubes.



I envy anyone who has a local dealer with desirable tubes.  I'd be lucky to find a cracked, rusted GE 6080 at a garage sale.



Khragon said:


> Guys... I like to share that I've sold my Glenn 300B amp (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sold-glenn-300b-amp.911550/#post-15117835)
> 
> And.. I'm happy to report that the buyer is @zach915m of ZMF Headphones.  I'm a fan of ZMF headphones, having own every of Zach custom designed model from Eikon/Atticus up to the Auteur (both stock and black wood).
> I know the amp pair really well with Zach headphones, and excited that Zach may take this amp on tour, giving everyone a chance to experience Glenn's amp, both OTL and 300B!
> ...



Congrats @zach915m , he has completed the trifecta of Glenn amps!  Looking forward to giving it a listen at ZMFestivus.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> These will create a good amount of heat, but should be killer with low z cans....tone will be much better than with 6336 tubes....IMO.....YMMV



It's for the nights when it's minus 2 degrees. Winter's not over yet.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I envy anyone who has a local dealer with desirable tubes. I'd be lucky to find a cracked, rusted GE 6080 at a garage sale.



When Winter's over, we can talk about the GEC 6080s


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Congrats @zach915m , he has completed the trifecta of Glenn amps! Looking forward to giving it a listen at ZMFestivus.



You have to help him carry that 30kgs amp to the ZMFestivus. I wonder if it's this amp because it's a real beauty.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 17, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> When Winter's over, we can talk about the GEC 6080s



Thanks, Matt, but I have my own pair to keep me warm.  Although, I may need pick up a few more to get me through, the Cleveland winter ain't no joke...thunder blizzard is a legitimate form of weather here.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> You have to help him carry that 30kgs amp to the ZMFestivus. I wonder if it's this amp because it's a real beauty.




I believe this is the amp that Zach bought.....basically the same amp and a real beauty.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> Zach’s going to be in for a good time. ZMF headphones are just an amazing team.




Yep, he sure is.....did you get that Apex Teton by the way


----------



## UntilThen

ColtMrFire said:


> Wondering if anyone's heard/owned the Torpedo 3 and compared to the Glenn amps.  Looking to possibly upgrade



I'm so sorry no one attempt to answer your question but I've never heard the Torpedo 3. There are 3 models of Glenn's amp. The OTL, GEL3N (a transformer coupled amp that uses EL3N tubes) and the 300b amp that uses c3g as driver tubes. I've only heard and own the OTL amp and having owned several OTL amps before, I find the GOTL the most dynamic, punchy and fast pace timing of the lot. This is with 6 x 6bx7 or 6BL7 as power tubes and you can pick either a single 6sn7 or pair of c3gs as driver tubes. The bass is taut and tight with excellent control. Imaging is precise and midrange sweet and forward sounding. Treble is well extended but there is no harshness. I find the OTL amp paired beautifully with HD800 and I'll be test driving it with the Verite soon. Oh in the past I find it very nice with both Eikon and Atticus.

Hope that helps.

Here's a picture with Eikon.
 

and Atticus


----------



## L0rdGwyn

If anyone ever spots the twin to my black base MOV A1834, please let me know.  Would not mind having a pair of these, but I won't seek them out, prices are too darn high.  Until I find one, it lives in my Crackatwoa.


----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> Yep, he sure is.....did you get that Apex Teton by the way



I did. Should be in my hands next week. I’m glad a bunch of tubes are interchangeable between the GOTL and Teton.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> I did. Should be in my hands next week. I’m glad a bunch of tubes are interchangeable between the GOTL and Teton.




Yes, that is great that many tubes will work in both amps.
From all i have heard about the Apex....you just got your self another great amp sir!

Another good shout out for Deyan as I am test driving my AZ12 to 3DG4 adapter that I received from him and glad to report after about 3 hours time it is cool as can be.
Thanks again...Deyan.  It runs as cool as the FW4-500 to 3DG4


----------



## Deyan

whirlwind said:


> Yes, that is great that many tubes will work in both amps.
> From all i have heard about the Apex....you just got your self another great amp sir!
> 
> Another good shout out for Deyan as I am test driving my AZ12 to 3DG4 adapter that I received from him and glad to report after about 3 hours time it is cool as can be.
> Thanks again...Deyan.  It runs as cool as the FW4-500 to 3DG4



Happy to be of service.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I did. Should be in my hands next week. I’m glad a bunch of tubes are interchangeable between the GOTL and Teton.



We'll be tuning in to your summary report when you have sufficient time to compare the 2 amps.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Another good shout out for Deyan as I am test driving my AZ12 to 3DG4 adapter that I received from him and glad to report after about 3 hours time it is cool as can be.



I was looking at a Telefunken RGN4004 this morning. Looks similar to your rectifier with mesh plates. Can the RGN4004 be used in the GEL3N and if so, with what adapter?


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> We'll be tuning in to your summary report when you have sufficient time to compare the 2 amps.



Yes of course.

I do find a little humor in having to compare a $1600 amp to a $5000 amp.

Really, you can’t beat the price of the GOTL and the versatility it brings to the table.


----------



## UntilThen

What the... the Telefunken RGN4004 cost as much as my GEC U52. No more expensive rectifiers. After all, don't they just convert AC to DC ! 

and there's a Australian rock band called ACDC.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Yes of course.
> 
> I do find a little humor in having to compare a $1600 amp to a $5000 amp.
> 
> Really, you can’t beat the price of the GOTL and the versatility it brings to the table.



That's what I thought very early on when I had the chance to have the GOTL and WA5LE together for 2 weeks. The WA5 was sporting a pair of Takatsuki 300b tubes and EML rectifiers. I like both amps as tonally they are very interesting in their own ways. The GOTL certainly held it's own with very engaging, fast transients.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 17, 2019)

Deleted.

I'll look elsewhere.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 17, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I was looking at a Telefunken RGN4004 this morning. Looks similar to your rectifier with mesh plates. Can the RGN4004 be used in the GEL3N and if so, with what adapter?



Yes it can, pretty much all rectifiers can be used in the GEL3N....not positive but I think the FW4-500 to 3DG4 would work....best to check with Deyan and yes some rectifier tubes are expensive


----------



## Deyan

whirlwind said:


> Yes it can, pretty much all rectifiers can be used in the GEL3N....not positive but I think the FW4-500 to 3DG4 would work....best to check with Deyan and yes some rectifier tubes are expensive



The adapter will work. But I don't think I have any of the B4 sockets left. I'll have to check.


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> I do find a little humor in having to compare a $1600 amp to a $5000 amp.


From my personal taste and experience, paying more does NOT guarantee getting more / better! 
Many times I preferred the cheaper amp or headphone...


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> From my personal taste and experience, paying more does NOT guarantee getting more / better!
> Many times I preferred the cheaper amp or headphone...





Zachik said:


> From my personal taste and experience, paying more does NOT guarantee getting more / better!
> Many times I preferred the cheaper amp or headphone...



Words that can’t ring any truer. 

I’ve started a journey looking for a specific sound. I have two stops which is the Teton and another amp.

If they don’t work out then I’ve decided that I have all I need.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 17, 2019)

In case anyone is considering this pair of Western Electric 421A tubes:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/273968864129?ul_noapp=true

The seller bought both of these tubes that were listed a week ago and paired them together:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-421A-Vacuum-Tube-code-6236-500-Hours-Working-But-Not-Tested-/223619247033?ul_noapp=true&nma=true&si=zwXHUCzW8I7GL1ITnFl5Kk33KiE%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-421A-Vacuum-Tube-code-6352-500-Hours-Working-But-Not-Tested-/223619245691?ul_noapp=true&nma=true&si=zwXHUCzW8I7GL1ITnFl5Kk33KiE%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

$90 a piece bought individually with free shiping, $400 with $18 shipping when paired and tested, over 100% profit, not bad.  Just FYI.  Testing 50-52/40 on a TV-7/DU


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I just nabbed this beauty, great price and true NOS.  Can't wait 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N7G-Tung-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> In case anyone is considering this pair of Western Electric 421A tubes:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/273968864129?ul_noapp=true
> 
> ...



Nice catch. Saw those and but some red flags popped up (along with the price).


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> Nice catch. Saw those and but some red flags popped up (along with the price).



Thanks, only spotted it because one of the tubes matches the date code of my pair, I considered picking it up as a spare a week ago.

Then this listing today, I was like "Wow, another date code match!  What are the chanc - wait a minute...."

Figured I would just put it out there, the more you know.


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> Good stuff - added to my publicly shared GOTL Google doc!



Would you be willing to put a link to this doc in your signature? Otherwise, I have no idea how to find it....


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Would you be willing to put a link to this doc in your signature? Otherwise, I have no idea how to find it....



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHcgqSa16WqaAjwUYoE3eZlSfmaSluQFVYqY1pry-NI/edit#gid=0


----------



## gibosi

Thanks! But I still think it would be a good idea to have a "sticky" somewhere so I don't have to try to remember where I saved it. lol


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> Would you be willing to put a link to this doc in your signature? Otherwise, I have no idea how to find it....


Good idea - now in my signature


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> From my personal taste and experience, paying more does NOT guarantee getting more / better!
> Many times I preferred the cheaper amp or headphone...





Phantaminum said:


> Words that can’t ring any truer.
> 
> I’ve started a journey looking for a specific sound. I have two stops which is the Teton and another amp.
> 
> If they don’t work out then I’ve decided that I have all I need.



Interestingly, in some cases - I like the cheaper option even when both are by the same company!
Couple examples: I personally like Focal Clear better than Utopia, and I like Headamp's GS-X Mini better than the big brother GS-X MK2...


----------



## heliosphann

One of @L0rdGwyn's 7802's tubes was acting up, so I had to smack it around! 

Now it's behaving gloriously.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> One of @L0rdGwyn's 7802's tubes was acting up, so I had to smack it around!
> 
> Now it's behaving gloriously.



How dare you.

JK man glad we were able to troubleshoot it


----------



## OctavianH

The best rectifier guys, do not spend money on other stuff than:


----------



## Zachik (Aug 17, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> One of @L0rdGwyn's 7802's tubes was acting up, so I had to smack it around!


I have just reported you to TPS (Tube Protective Services)!


----------



## Phantaminum (Aug 17, 2019)

Zachik said:


> I have just reported you to TBS (Tube Protective Services)!



I’ve also reported him to the Tube Battered Hotline. Lift another hand to an innocent tube will you!?


----------



## heliosphann

It's @L0rdGwyn fault!


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Good idea - now in my signature



Thanks for this. That note on 5U4G rectifier - 
OK when running 6BX7 or 6BL7 (2, 4 or 6 tubes) but not other output tubes!

Can someone explain to me why this is so.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I was looking at a Telefunken RGN4004 this morning. Looks similar to your rectifier with mesh plates. Can the RGN4004 be used in the GEL3N and if so, with what adapter?



Get a RGN4004 to 3DG4 adapter I am sure Deyan can make this.


----------



## UntilThen

Deyan is a godsend to our midst. I'll be collecting some rectifiers along the way before the amp's build, thanks to Ken who gave me some valuable pointers more than a year ago.


----------



## 2359glenn

You know I was going to stop putting the 3DG4 option in my amps. I usually give one with the amp but nobody uses them.
Guess I will leave it in now that everyone in using the 4 volt rectifiers with a 3DG4 adapter


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn, I will be using the 3DG4. It has the lowest voltage drop. So keep a shiny looking one for me.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn, I will be using the 3DG4. It has the lowest voltage drop. So keep a shiny looking one for me.



I have to see what I got left I haven't bought any for awhile.
Sylvania is the best.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Thanks for this. That note on 5U4G rectifier -
> OK when running 6BX7 or 6BL7 (2, 4 or 6 tubes) but not other output tubes!
> 
> Can someone explain to me why this is so.


I do not remember exactly, but from now on, when I quote Glenn in my table or notes section - I will add the source post # for future reference!


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> Thanks for this. That note on 5U4G rectifier -
> OK when running 6BX7 or 6BL7 (2, 4 or 6 tubes) but not other output tubes!
> 
> Can someone explain to me why this is so.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1857#post-15088022
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1858#post-15088862


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks for the link @heliosphann. Lots of discussions on various type of rectifiers there.

For me it’s good to know that the GEL3N can use almost all 4 and 5 volts rectifiers.


----------



## Zachik

heliosphann said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1857#post-15088022
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1858#post-15088862


Thanks - added source info to my table for this one!


----------



## OctavianH

What fuse uses the GOTL with 9 sockets and tube rectification? 3.15 Amp, 250 volt, 5mm x 20mm?


----------



## 2359glenn

OctavianH said:


> What fuse uses the GOTL with 9 sockets and tube rectification? 3.15 Amp, 250 volt, 5mm x 20mm?



The fuse size is according to the line voltage you using. 230 volt 1.6 amp  115 volt 2.5 amp  5mm X 20mm


----------



## attmci (Aug 18, 2019)

I just learned some amp can act like a magic machine, tubes will improve after hundred of hours usage. Very nice!!


----------



## attmci (Aug 18, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> In case anyone is considering this pair of Western Electric 421A tubes:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/273968864129?ul_noapp=true
> 
> ...


Both had been used over 500 hrs and well opened up. You should get them.

JK


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> Both had been used over 500 hrs and we'll opened up. You should get them.
> 
> JK



Free 500 hour burn-in!


----------



## mordy (Aug 18, 2019)

attmci said:


> I just learned some amp can act like a magic machine, tubes will improve after hundred of hours usage. Very nice!!


Hi attmci,
When I started tube rolling some ten years ago I was very skeptical about so called burn in. However, over time I have been convinced that it is true, both about electronics in general and tubes in particular.
Different tubes require different burn in time - perhaps the longest takes with tubes that do not get hot in use such as the EL3N, EL11, EL32 etc with upwards of 400 hours for some.
Many tubes seem to stabilize after 30-50 hours in my experience.
To my surprise, solid state equipment may need time as well to sound their best. I just got a Jotenheim from the St company (don't worry, I haven't defected to the ss camp - somebody gave it to me), and it needs several days of staying on until it sounds it's best. Maybe it is something about stabilizing the operating temperature - I just don't know. All I know is that it sounds better after being on for a while; something that has been corroborated by others.
I aware that there are people who claim that the tubes sound the way they sound right away and that the sound does not change, but this has not been my personal experience.
Come to think about it, I am questioning people that roll new tubes in rapid succession and then instantly proclaim which one sounds the best. As far as I am concerned, it takes quite a long time to formulate an opinion, especially if the tubes sound similar to each other.
I have even read about people who claim that all tubes sound the same which just proves that we hear things differently. IMHO there is plenty of room for all opinions - the main thing is to enjoy the music......


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> When I started tube rolling some ten years ago I was very skeptical about so called burn in. However, over time I have been convinced that it is true, both about electronics in general and tubes in particular.
> Different tubes require different burn in time - perhaps the longest takes with tubes that do not get hot in use such as the EL3N, EL11, EL32 etc with upwards of 400 hours for some.
> Many tubes seem to stabilize after 30-50 hours in my experience.
> ...



Have you ever read around in the Sound Science section of this forum? If you have then you know that all;
DACs
Amps
Cables
Inter-connects

Sound absolutely the same,and tubes,oh my god! The bane of audio equipment. All tubes do is add distortion to the sound,therefor are trash.
Burn-in? Are you kidding?!? The only thing burning-in is your brain.

Yeah,I read over there when im bored out of mind just to see how delusional these sound scientists clearly are,


----------



## rnros

attmci said:


> I just learned some amp can act like a magic machine, tubes will improve after hundred of hours usage. Very nice!!



Well, it's not magic, it's just a good amp. I would highly recommend Glenn's OTL. Honest. And a good DAC. And HP's.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Have you ever read around in the Sound Science section of this forum? If you have then you know that all;
> DACs
> Amps
> Cables
> ...


Hi Monsterzero,
Have you ever met people that have no sense of humor? You tell them the funniest joke and they just look at you - they simply don't get it. 
I can accept this.
And therefore I can accept that there are people that cannot hear any differences between different pieces of equipment. One upside is that they are happy with a set of $1.99 earbuds and their cellphone for music.....
Sometimes I wonder who is better off...
But no, I would never want to trade - so much enjoyment from listening to music........and........listening to your equipment lol........


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Have you ever read around in the Sound Science section of this forum? If you have then you know that all;
> DACs
> Amps
> Cables
> ...



It's funny, I'm having a related discussion on the Crack thread on global negative feedback, tube vs. solid-state sound, etc.  I'm personally trying to reconcile these two sides, trusting some measurements, but also my ears, it cannot be all one or the other.

I think right now, there are some things that cannot be measured.  For example, one Head-Fier on the Crack thread with an engineering background built a 6080-based SRPP output stage amp with global negative feedback built in, but found that removing the feedback resulted in more holographic imaging.  No doubt that without the feedback, the distortion and output impedance were higher.  So how do the measurements explain that?  How do you measure holographic imaging?  How do you measure enjoyment?

I will get off my soap box after saying, I think more important than this debate is to be kind, I've seen some really ugly interactions between audiophiles who disagree on these points.  Keep an open mind and enjoy the music!


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Hi Monsterzero,
> Have you ever met people that have no sense of humor? You tell them the funniest joke and they just look at you - they simply don't get it.
> I can accept this.
> And therefore I can accept that there are people that cannot hear any differences between different pieces of equipment. One upside is that they are happy with a set of $1.99 earbuds and their cellphone for music.....
> ...



Well,we all hear differently,this is true. Further the subjective nature of what sounds 'good' varies from person to person. I get that too.
The difference with the members that haunt that area is the group think mentality they have,and have watched from afar how a person who has a different opinion then they do gets attacked,usually with graphs and electrical mumbo jumbo,or referencing some obscure doctoral thesis done in Romania in 1957.
Like much of this planet,I see very little civil discourse going on over there. 

We had 'one of those' pop into the HEDDphone thread who proceeded to inform us that all amps sound identical and anyone who thought otherwise was an idiot. I have no patience for these types.


----------



## rnros (Aug 18, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Have you ever read around in the Sound Science section of this forum? If you have then you know that all;
> DACs
> Amps
> Cables
> ...



I know you recognize the value of both sides of the argument, but yes, the ultimate value and judgement lies in the actual human experience.

Think you would like this book. As the book flap says "For music lovers, musicians, and music critics."
Also, of course, "For architects and acoustical practitioners." But something for everyone who loves music.
Worth $87? You can get a kindle sample from Amazon to get a sense of the content.
But if interested, get the book, not the kindle version. Beautiful quality book.



Spoiler: Bookcover:


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Have you ever read around in the Sound Science section of this forum? If you have then you know that all;
> DACs
> Amps
> Cables
> ...



If that was the case we’d all be using Topping amps/dacs to run all of our audio gear. I like the general sweeping statement for burn in. Smh..


----------



## Monsterzero

rnros said:


> But if interested, get the book, not the kindle version. Beautiful quality book.



Is the Kindle version significantly inferior? I can no longer read actual books as my eyes wont allow it. I can read a backlit Kindle though.


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> Is the Kindle version significantly inferior? I can no longer read actual books as my eyes wont allow it. I can read a backlit Kindle though.



Ah, OK. I was referring to the pleasure of having the beautifully printed book available to enjoy. 
Haven't looked at the kindle version, my copy predates kindle, but I'm sure it is fine for the actual content. Sometimes the graphic content can get a little shuffled with kindle.
But good place to start is with the kindle sample, although don't know how far it goes into the book content. 

Discussion is basic to civilization, some needs to be more specific and disciplined. 
This is an introduction to the common ground in language and concept that professionals require.


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> When I started tube rolling some ten years ago I was very skeptical about so called burn in. However, over time I have been convinced that it is true, both about electronics in general and tubes in particular.
> Different tubes require different burn in time - perhaps the longest takes with tubes that do not get hot in use such as the EL3N, EL11, EL32 etc with upwards of 400 hours for some.
> Many tubes seem to stabilize after 30-50 hours in my experience.
> ...



Well said.

Just got around to trying a few of the metal jacket 6N7s, thanks to your previous recommendation.
Damn! Thank you.


----------



## mordy

Thanks


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 18, 2019)

I don't know how I haven't rolled the Chatham 6AS7G until now, it's like I completely forgot I had them.  Really like them with the ECC32, and it makes for a nice photo.

My Auteur comes back to me tomorrow, I had no idea how much I'd miss it, so excited.  I need my sub-bass back.


----------



## Xcalibur255

DecentLevi said:


> @Xcalibur255 interesting and helpful info. on Hexfreds. From your description sounds like I may go with Hexfreds too, especially the sound having better bass control and speed, and resolution... but doesn't that change depending on how good of rectifier tubes you're comparing it with?
> 
> For the next questions, excuse me for sounding like a noob but I'm coming from the simple 4-tube OTL Feliks Audio amp with drivers/powers of the same socket type.
> - Does the Hexfred option even apply to a new GEL3N amp, or is it only for OTL amps?
> ...



The adapters basically look like socket savers with a solid top.  Nothing fancy.

Maybe we're getting too technical here and overwhelming you, but I think you're worrying a little too much about the impact of the choice.  To clarify, when we refer to HEXFRED we're referring to solid state diodes.  HEXFRED is a specific brand and type of diode.  For your last question for example, the rectifier choice won't have any impact at all on the output impedance of the amp or change it's ability to drive a certain type of headphone in any way.  The rectifier's job is to convert AC into DC for the other tubes in the amp.  There are several electrical voltages inside an amp that have different purposes, but this particular one is referred to as the B+ and it is the one that the actual musical signal is carried in.  This is why the rectifier can impact the sound.  Take for example you switch from a 5AR4 to a 5U4G.  Because of the way these different tubes work this swap will have the effect of lowering the B+ voltage in your amp by, oh let's say around 20-30 volts.  This changes the bias and operating points of your driver and output tubes.  Different bias means a change in performance from those tubes.  The point is that it's important to keep in mind what is going on electrically and mathematically when we make these changes.  Both a tube rectifier and a Hexfred solid state rectifier are the same thing and are doing the same job:  they are diodes rectifying current.  But just like a 5U4G and a 5AR4 have different amount of losses when performing that job, so does a solid state diode.  

Your question about Hexfred rolling is an interesting one.  Technically what you're thinking of here is diode rolling.  This is exactly what you are doing when you swap tube rectifiers, you are changing to a different set of diodes.  The answer here, technically, is yes.  There are other kinds of solid state diodes that can be used for this job.  Like I mentioned above HEXFRED refers to a specific type and brand of diode.  Schottkey diodes come to mind right away as an alternative.  The reason we're focused on HEXFRED is because a lot of people feel they are the best choice out of what is currently available.  It's hard to really explain why without getting really techical, but it mostly comes down to the HEXFRED having a fast recovery time while at the same time closely mimicking some other behaviors of tube diodes.  The theory goes this is why the HEXFRED pulls off this weird ability to sound both detailed and dynamic, and yet mellow and relaxed sounding all at the same time.

You can pretty much any tube amp with solid state diodes instead of tube ones.  This is actually fairly common in commercial tube amps these days where you won't see a rectifier tube.  That job still has to be performed, so they are using solid state diodes to perform it.  Maybe they have HEXFREDs in there, maybe something else.  So you can definitely have an EL3N built using HEXFRED diodes in it's power supply if you wanted it that way.

I hope that makes sense.  It's been a while since I've thought about it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

OctavianH said:


> Many thanks for your detailed answer. One last question, if we add the transformer type to this equation, is there any advantage or disadvantage in combining the rectifier socket with a Lundahl transformer? What I read and found out, thanks to @L0rdGwyn was that the Lundahl transformer version with octal rectifier socket has also 2 x Hexfreds inside and the rectifier is basicly wired to the positive polarity.



I think (hope?) my previous rambling post should help answer this.  Your choice of power transformer doesn't really directly connect to whether your not you want to use HEXFRED diodes instead of a tube rectifier.  The reason we prefer the Lundahl transformer is because they give the amp a lower noise floor which helps with low level detail and resolution and will lower the chance of there being static or other noise if your headphones are very high sensitivity.  Because of the way the Lundahls are Glenn has to do a few things differently for the power supply design of the amp.  I honestly would not worry about the datails of that other than to know that they are simply necessary and aren't going to really change the character of the amp's sound.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Aug 18, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> You know I was going to stop putting the 3DG4 option in my amps. I usually give one with the amp but nobody uses them.
> Guess I will leave it in now that everyone in using the 4 volt rectifiers with a 3DG4 adapter



I tried to talk people into using them, but nobody was having it.    I have had the same 3DG4 rectifier in my OTL for years now.  Long enough that the tube has that dark grungy look all 3DG4 tubes seem to get when they get some decent hours on them.

edit:  In case this statement confuses anybody, I use the HEXFRED adapters in my 45 amp.  I've never had a HEXFRED adapter for my OTL.  My OTL is the old style anyway and Glenn doesn't make them like that anymore.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Glenn, I will be using the 3DG4. It has the lowest voltage drop. So keep a shiny looking one for me.



If Glenn doesn't have any I can help you.  I have spares.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> If Glenn doesn't have any I can help you.  I have spares.



Thanks mate. You're extremely helpful.

The pair of Siemens EL11 arrived. I've not seen a more pristine looking tubes. Same construction as my Telefunken EL11s.

And something else arrived too... a day earlier.

The Pheasantwood Verite. It's a jaw dropping moment when I opened the Seahorse case housing it. Pure class in looks and construction. You won't get any sound impressions from me till much much later after I've given the transducers a good workout.

until then....


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> And something else arrived too... a day earlier.
> 
> The Pheasantwood Verite. It's a jaw dropping moment when I opened the Seahorse case housing it. Pure class in looks and construction. You won't get any sound impressions from me till much much later after I've given the transducers a good workout.



Photos, or it didn't happen...


----------



## 2359glenn

Bummer one of my GEC 6AS7s died yesterday.  I only had them about 8 months What paid $430 for them.
Have Brimar 6080s in the amp now they sound pretty good. Not sure who really made them.
Almost bought that single GEC 6AS7 on E-BAY for $419 then came to my senses.
The 6080 sounds good enough and is totally quiet.
I had it with expensive tubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## m17xr2b

Did it die at power up or just while listening? Any bangs or destroyed headphones? I assume this wasn't just a loss of emissions.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Photos, or it didn't happen...



Alright I'll release one photo.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Bummer one of my GEC 6AS7s died yesterday.  I only had them about 8 months What paid $430 for them.
> Have Brimar 6080s in the amp now they sound pretty good. Not sure who really made them.
> Almost bought that single GEC 6AS7 on E-BAY for $419 then came to my senses.
> The 6080 sounds good enough and is totally quiet.
> I had it with expensive tubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



That's beyond sad Glenn.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> Bummer one of my GEC 6AS7s died yesterday.  I only had them about 8 months What paid $430 for them.
> Have Brimar 6080s in the amp now they sound pretty good. Not sure who really made them.
> Almost bought that single GEC 6AS7 on E-BAY for $419 then came to my senses.
> The 6080 sounds good enough and is totally quiet.
> I had it with expensive tubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Sorry to hear that Glenn.

You can never tell with tubes, maybe David has a spare one.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Bummer one of my GEC 6AS7s died yesterday.  I only had them about 8 months What paid $430 for them.
> Have Brimar 6080s in the amp now they sound pretty good. Not sure who really made them.
> Almost bought that single GEC 6AS7 on E-BAY for $419 then came to my senses.
> The 6080 sounds good enough and is totally quiet.
> I had it with expensive tubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Sorry to hear about this Glenn.
I lost a 5998 tube a couple of months ago, it just died while listening.  It did not cause any damage filaments just gave way.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Bummer one of my GEC 6AS7s died yesterday.  I only had them about 8 months What paid $430 for them.
> Have Brimar 6080s in the amp now they sound pretty good. Not sure who really made them.
> Almost bought that single GEC 6AS7 on E-BAY for $419 then came to my senses.
> The 6080 sounds good enough and is totally quiet.
> I had it with expensive tubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Sent you a PM Glenn.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Bummer one of my GEC 6AS7s died yesterday.  I only had them about 8 months What paid $430 for them.
> Have Brimar 6080s in the amp now they sound pretty good. Not sure who really made them.
> Almost bought that single GEC 6AS7 on E-BAY for $419 then came to my senses.
> The 6080 sounds good enough and is totally quiet.
> I had it with expensive tubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Those Brimars are most likely made by Sylvania.
Sorry to hear about the GEC giving out.


----------



## 2359glenn

You know I am stupid for buying them. I built these amps to use cheep tubes and sound good.
The 6080 is a bit more mellow or worm compared to the GEC 6AS7 but still sound really good.
And I had the 6080s before I paid all that money for the GEC's what a  moron.
I had it with expensive tubes had a pair of KR globe 300Bs and one of the filaments burned out after a year.
That was a $1000 down the drain. I plan on converting the 300B amps I have to EL34 the output transformer is the right impedance.
Could have bought a couple of nice phones for what I paid for 300Bs over the years.


----------



## heliosphann

Glenn you smack the crap out of that tube. Think of it just like "CPR". It'll bring it back to life proper, I swear!


----------



## heliosphann

Also I had a dream about tubes last night. I need help.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 19, 2019)

The exact same thing that happened with the 7802 happened to me this morning with my NEC 6AS7G @heliosphann , filaments didn't heat up the cathode.  Turned it upside down, gave it a light smack, good as new!  These tubes need to be reminded who they serve.

(in both cases, I am pretty certain there was just some debris inside the tube causing a short)


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Glenn you smack the **** out of that tube. Think of it just like "CPR". It'll bring it back to life proper, I swear!



I will try that after work tonight it can't heart anything.
Already tried soldering the pins twice that didn't work. Then I was going to test it on my Hickok 800a tube tester.
When I turned it on the meter was going backwards. So that is broke too was to depressed to do anything at that point.
Now have to fix the tube tester. Just a bad weekend.


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> I will try that after work tonight it can't heart anything.
> Already tried soldering the pins twice that didn't work. Then I was going to test it on my Hickok 800a tube tester.
> When I turned it on the meter was going backwards. So that is broke too was to depressed to do anything at that point.
> Now have to fix the tube tester. Just a bad weekend.



That sucks Glenn. Hope it isn't dead!


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Also I had a dream about tubes last night. I need help.



I  also had a dream that the rectifier in my amp was arcing over .
What are we nuts??


----------



## UntilThen

I had a dream too. Last night before going to bed I bid $99 on the Telefunken RGN4004 black mesh plate and I dreamt I won it. This morning when I looked at the auction, it closed at $623. I thought OMG did I bid that much for a rectifier. Then I realised I didn't win it. Someone else did.


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> I  also had a dream that the rectifier in my amp was arcing over .
> What are we nuts??



Yours seems somewhat sane compared to mine. This English family was renting out a property and part of the house included some Mullard tubes that I wanted, but there was concern the tubes were being abused or something. Lol


----------



## UntilThen

What I am hearing now isn't a dream though. After an hour letting Verite burn in, I couldn't resist it anymore. I have to have a listen. Now that I've it on my head, I couldn't remove it. I'm afraid even at this early stage, the Verite will redefine what I like about a headphone sound signature. It's really good ! Make that amazing ! Better than any money spent on tubes.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> You know I am stupid for buying them. I built these amps to use cheep tubes and sound good.
> The 6080 is a bit more mellow or worm compared to the GEC 6AS7 but still sound really good.
> And I had the 6080s before I paid all that money for the GEC's what a  moron.
> I had it with expensive tubes had a pair of KR globe 300Bs and one of the filaments burned out after a year.
> ...



And you might want to consider converting your OTL to run six 6BL7 / 6BX7. Cheap and good.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> What I am hearing now isn't a dream though. After an hour letting Verite burn in, I couldn't resist it anymore. I have to have a listen. Now that I've it on my head, I couldn't remove it. I'm afraid even at this early stage, the Verite will redefine what I like about a headphone sound signature. It's really good ! Make that amazing ! Better than any money spent on tubes.



Give it 250-300 hours mate, really takes a while to fully burn in.  

Stock universe leather pads have been the mainstay, but i have also dallied with suede universe pads, the flat Verite pads that were also shipped with the cans, and the in-between 'BE' pads from time to time.  

@2359glenn has had many good things to say about the Verite + GOTL pairing, happy days ahead for you too if your first impressions are positive haha


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> What I am hearing now isn't a dream though. After an hour letting Verite burn in, I couldn't resist it anymore. I have to have a listen. Now that I've it on my head, I couldn't remove it. I'm afraid even at this early stage, the Verite will redefine what I like about a headphone sound signature. It's really good ! Make that amazing ! Better than any money spent on tubes.



Nice! You'll have to let us know some of your favorite tube pairings.


----------



## gibosi (Aug 19, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I had a dream too. Last night before going to bed I bid $99 on the Telefunken RGN4004 black mesh plate and I dreamt I won it. This morning when I looked at the auction, it closed at $623. I thought OMG did I bid that much for a rectifier. Then I realised I didn't win it. Someone else did.



As I understand, you are getting an EL3N amp with German octal sockets. And therefore, an RGN4004 (300ma) is much more powerful and expensive than you really need. So I suggest you consider mesh-plate Telefunken RGN 2004, which can provide 160ma, and/or RGN 2504, 180ma. Either should be fine in your new amp. And of course, they are less expensive, but unfortunately, still not cheap.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> As I understand, you are getting an EL3N amp with German octal sockets. And therefore, an RGN4004 (300ma) is much more powerful and expensive than you really need. So I suggest you consider mesh-plate Telefunken RGN 2004, which can provide 160ma, and/or RGN 2504, 180ma. Either should be fine in your new amp. And of course, they are less expensive, but unfortunately, not cheap.



Yeah I didn't know that the Telefunken RGN4004 will cost that much. I thought I would win it with a bid of $99 with 4 hours to go.  I even save a picture of it so I can share it here. Oh well as you said, I don't need that powerful rectifier and it's not mine to have.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> What I am hearing now isn't a dream though. After an hour letting Verite burn in, I couldn't resist it anymore. I have to have a listen. Now that I've it on my head, I couldn't remove it. I'm afraid even at this early stage, the Verite will redefine what I like about a headphone sound signature. It's really good ! Make that amazing ! Better than any money spent on tubes.



Now the fun begins...rolling pads,and rolling tubes,finding the right sound for you. The Verite is quite the chameleon.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> What I am hearing now isn't a dream though. After an hour letting Verite burn in, I couldn't resist it anymore. I have to have a listen. Now that I've it on my head, I couldn't remove it. I'm afraid even at this early stage, the Verite will redefine what I like about a headphone sound signature. It's really good ! Make that amazing ! Better than any money spent on tubes.



The Verite only keeps on getting better with burn in it needs at least 150 hrs burn in. 
The Verite retired my HD-800s haven't listened to them since I got the Verite.  This is the best headphone I  have now!!!!!!
 I liked it best with my GEC 6AS7s
Haven't tried them since the tube burned out. I was listening to the Aeolus when the tube died.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> I will try that after work tonight it can't heart anything.
> Already tried soldering the pins twice that didn't work. Then I was going to test it on my Hickok 800a tube tester.
> When I turned it on the meter was going backwards. So that is broke too was to depressed to do anything at that point.
> Now have to fix the tube tester. Just a bad weekend.


Glenn - I can connect you with a guy that fixes and calibrates testers. He is very honest, will not charge you an arm and a leg, and he knows what he's doing. I have only good things to say about him!
Bought my 800a from him a few months ago...
PM me if you're interested.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Alright I'll release one photo.


Will have a chat with the site admins, about adding a "dislike" button...


----------



## mordy (Aug 19, 2019)

Thanks to a tip from rnros I have revisited the all metal tube 6N7. This tube requires an ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter. I have 6N7 tubes from RCA, NU and Ken-Rad; all are from 1940 -1944.
Of the three brands, the Ken-Rad sounds the best, but the others are quite good sounding as well.
Somebody opened up this tube to check how it was made. The only glass in the tube is a disc to hold the pins - the rest is all metal. Apparently this manufacturing method was costlier than all glass tubes and the US manufacturers stopped making them in the 40's.
Because this tube has no visual appeal and no tube glow it can still be had at real bargain prices.
It ranks right up there among my favorite drivers now.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Thanks to Zach, my Auteur is back in action, couldn't be happier about it.  A fresh coat of polish and we are off to the GOTL races.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks to Zach, my Auteur is back in action, couldn't be happier about it.  A fresh coat of polish and we are off to the GOTL races.



The Auteur and GOTL is such a satisfying pairing. Love the 6BX7s and Mullard’s. Hell the Svetlana 6H13Cs and a Tung Sol BGRP sound glorious out of it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I  also had a dream that the rectifier in my amp was arcing over .
> What are we nuts??



Better to dream about it than have it happen in real life.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 19, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> The Auteur and GOTL is such a satisfying pairing. Love the 6BX7s and Mullard’s. Hell the Svetlana 6H13Cs and a Tung Sol BGRP sound glorious out of it.



You really can't go wrong in this amp and the Auteur.  Right now I am doing the Sylvania 6SN7W metal base and Tung Sol 7802, these tubes synergize really well together, the Sylvania helps smooth out the top end of the 7802 and lets its strengths shine through.


----------



## Phantaminum

heliosphann said:


> One of @L0rdGwyn's 7802's tubes was acting up, so I had to smack it around!
> 
> Now it's behaving gloriously.



By the way Helios,

What did you think of the 7802s? How do they match up to the 7236s?


----------



## UntilThen

Can see many are rolling great tubes in the GOTL and the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base is one of them. I hope mine last forever. I don't think I have done 100 hours on mine because I have a lot of good drivers to rotate but the 6sn7w with 6 x 6bx7gt ranks amongst my fav combination.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> By the way Helios,
> 
> What did you think of the 7802s? How do they match up to the 7236s?



He told me in a PM what he thought of them,but I will allow him to share his thoughts. It wasnt good news though. 
Not that he didnt like them,no. Its bad news cuz theyre impossible to find,and now im in competition with this whole damn thread to find a pair!


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 19, 2019)

Well, don't feel too bad Glenn.  my first set of tubes made it here.....Osram KT63



I put them in the adapters and popped them in the amp...but unfortunately nothing no sound.

Not sure if it is the adapters or the tubes...Deyan said he tied pins one and eight together.


I did receive my new headphone stand today also, I can report that it works fine.  

I have wanted one of these stands since i saw it for the first time. It keeps the headphones pads from compressing.  Zach has some nice new headphone stands also...but I had already ordered this one, but I am pretty happy with it.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Not that he didnt like them,no. Its bad news cuz theyre impossible to find,and now im in competition with this whole damn thread to find a pair!


Not the "whole damn thread" - I will skip these 
Good luck finding good ones.


----------



## Phantaminum (Aug 19, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> He told me in a PM what he thought of them,but I will allow him to share his thoughts. It wasnt good news though.
> Not that he didnt like them,no. Its bad news cuz theyre impossible to find,and now im in competition with this whole damn thread to find a pair!



Hah! Well if you find a second pair (probably easier to find unicorn fart dust) let me know. Hope you find a pair.


----------



## UntilThen

Joe, lovely stand. Would love to have one for the Verite.

Sad news about the KT63 but you're a pioneer. Hope it works out for the EL34.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Joe, lovely stand. Would love to have one for the Verite.
> 
> Sad news about the KT63 but you're a pioneer. Hope it works out for the EL34.




Yeah, maybe better luck with EL34


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 19, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> He told me in a PM what he thought of them,but I will allow him to share his thoughts. It wasnt good news though.
> Not that he didnt like them,no. Its bad news cuz theyre impossible to find,and now im in competition with this whole damn thread to find a pair!



Hopefully this means my ears can be trusted!  Very curious to hear his thoughts myself.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Well, don't feel too bad Glenn.  my first set of tubes made it here.....Osram KT63
> 
> 
> I put them in the adapters and popped them in the amp...but unfortunately nothing no sound.
> ...



Did the filaments light up?
Something is very wrong if no sound at all.
Must be a mistake in the adapter.


----------



## Deyan

2359glenn said:


> Did the filaments light up?
> Something is very wrong if no sound at all.
> Must be a mistake in the adapter.



I hope not. I'm trying to recall what I did when making them and from memory they should be alright. We will have to wait and see if @whirlwind can check the filaments of the tubes.


----------



## mordy

I did receive my new headphone stand today also, I can report that it works fine.  

I have wanted one of these stands since i saw it for the first time. It keeps the headphones pads from compressing.  Zach has some nice new headphone stands also...but I had already ordered this one, but I am pretty happy with it.

[/QUOTE]
Here are my two triple reinforced headphone stands. One is colored in the patriotic colors of red, blue and white, and the second is made of a rare linear wood in a white finish.



My room is so cluttered that there isn't any place for headphone stands so this was the solution.....


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 19, 2019)

I think I have a giant killer on my hands gentlemen...

Meet the Sylvania VT-94D, aka the 6J5 version of the Sylvania 6SN7W metal base.  I started noticing a pattern as I was rolling 6J5 tubes that they seemed to hold an inherent advantage over their 6SN7 counterparts.  So, who wouldn't want a improved 6SN7W metal base?

I was eyeballing some very obscure international sellers to get a NIB pair from the same era as the 6SN7W metal base (military version, same print, etc).  There are other more widely available metal base Sylvania 6J5s on eBay, but I wanted to get these particular ones to make the best apples-to-apples comparison.

Well, Langrex made things easier for me when they posted a batch on eBay  so here they are.

Yeah, they are better.  More air, larger stage, better resolve and transparency, but they maintain the great tone of the 6SN7W metal base. 

Oh, did I mention they are a third of the price of the 6SN7W? $67 USD a pair.

I am happy to say my prediction came true, these are some absolutely killer tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Did the filaments light up?
> Something is very wrong if no sound at all.
> Must be a mistake in the adapter.




No the filaments did not light up.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> No the filaments did not light up.



I would say there is a big mistake in the adapters. No way both tubes are dead.


----------



## heliosphann

Phantaminum said:


> By the way Helios,
> 
> What did you think of the 7802s? How do they match up to the 7236s?



Very fast and detailed, great dynamics, good staging, and tight bass. Almost solid state sounding. It's basically just like a super 7236. I have got some slight stridency from them depending on the other tubes. At least with the Verite.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> Almost solid state sounding.



This is what I thought when I first got them and put one in my Crackatwoa.  Not in a negative way, they are just very incisive and transparent.


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Very fast and detailed, great dynamics, good staging, and tight bass. Almost solid state sounding. It's basically just like a super 7236. I have got some slight stridency from them depending on the other tubes. At least with the Verite.



Funny I was thinking about those attributes when I had the Sansui au Alpha 907mr driving my Verite.


----------



## gibosi




----------



## UntilThen

Holy moly that’s my coveted rectifier.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Holy moly that’s my coveted rectifier.



That is an old Loewe Radio AZ12. They pop up on eBay every so often...


----------



## heliosphann

Added AZ12 to 3DG4 my list of adapters...

@Deyan gonna get a big order soon. lol


----------



## gibosi

Also, Telefunken and Valvo made the mesh-plate AZ12, as well. As you might expect, the Telefunken tends to be expensive, close to $300. The Valvo is more affordable, but since the mesh is denser, it doesn't put on as good of a show as the Loewe.

The AZ12 can provide at most 200ma, so it is not powerful enough to run the GOTL with 6AS7-type output tubes. And in fact, it isn't powerful enough to run six 6BL7 either. But it's fine with four 6BL7, which is the way I use it, and it is more than adequate for the GEL3N.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> Also, Telefunken and Valvo made the mesh-plate AZ12, as well. As you might expect, the Telefunken tends to be expensive, close to $300. The Valvo is more affordable, but since the mesh is denser, it doesn't put on as good of a show as the Loewe.
> 
> The AZ12 can provide at most 200ma, so it is not powerful enough to run the GOTL with 6AS7-type output tubes. And in fact, it isn't powerful enough to run six 6BL7 either. But it's fine with four 6BL7, which is the way I use it, and it is more than adequate for the GEL3N.


Added to my table...


----------



## Deyan

heliosphann said:


> Added AZ12 to 3DG4 my list of adapters...
> 
> @Deyan gonna get a big order soon. lol



It's best to give me an idea for to prepare for.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 20, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> The adapters basically look like socket savers with a solid top.  Nothing fancy.
> 
> Maybe we're getting too technical here and overwhelming you, but I think you're worrying a little too much about the impact of the choice.  To clarify, when we refer to HEXFRED we're referring to solid state diodes.  HEXFRED is a specific brand and type of diode.  For your last question for example, the rectifier choice won't have any impact at all on the output impedance of the amp or change it's ability to drive a certain type of headphone in any way.  The rectifier's job is to convert AC into DC for the other tubes in the amp.  There are several electrical voltages inside an amp that have different purposes, but this particular one is referred to as the B+ and it is the one that the actual musical signal is carried in.  This is why the rectifier can impact the sound.  Take for example you switch from a 5AR4 to a 5U4G.  Because of the way these different tubes work this swap will have the effect of lowering the B+ voltage in your amp by, oh let's say around 20-30 volts.  This changes the bias and operating points of your driver and output tubes.  Different bias means a change in performance from those tubes.  The point is that it's important to keep in mind what is going on electrically and mathematically when we make these changes.  Both a tube rectifier and a Hexfred solid state rectifier are the same thing and are doing the same job:  they are diodes rectifying current.  But just like a 5U4G and a 5AR4 have different amount of losses when performing that job, so does a solid state diode.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your helpful post! So a Hexfred is a brand and type of diode, and tested to be the most optimal for Glenn amps. I would be possibly interested to roll diodes at some point and to compare the sound between these and rectifiers, so I'll get the rectifier option on my GEL3N and the external adapter from Glenn to swap between these.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi again folks, I'm getting all the details together to order my new GEL3N amp. That would be very helpful if any of you could fill me in on some of these questions if you know some of these. Or feel free to point me to a link to any that have already been answered.

- What are the optional features and add-ons for this amp?
- What do the 3 knobs do on the front of the amp?

These ones maybe only @2359glenn would know:
- Is it plausible, or even recommended to have 6 EL3N sockets?
  I would be very interested in having the option to roll 2, 4, or 6 of these and other tubes accordingly.
- Would dual rectifiers sound better, or is only 1 practical on this amp?


----------



## whirlwind

The three knobs on my amp are for volume, one/two tube mode, and I got an extra input on mine so it switches inputs....you would not need a knob for this unless you want it.

Can get the stepped attenuator if wanted....anything else would be best to ask Glenn.

Can't imagine you would need dual rectifiers.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I would say there is a big mistake in the adapters. No way both tubes are dead.



This was my first thought also...but I am not sure.
I will have some EL34 tubes here soon, so I will know more then.


----------



## rosgr63

Joe use a multimeter to check the heater circuit for continuity,, then put them on the adapter and recheck.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> This was my first thought also...but I am not sure.
> I will have some EL34 tubes here soon, so I will know more then.



The EL34 has the same pinout except G3 goes to pin 8 and not internally connected to the cathode then to pin 1.
This is why I said to connect pins 1 & 8 together.  On the 6V6/KT63 G3 is hooked to the cathode then to pin 8.
Pin 1 is not used except for the metal 6V6 pin 1 is hooked to the outer metal shell to be grounded for a shield.


----------



## 2359glenn

Interesting read

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullard–Philips_tube_designation


----------



## Monsterzero (Aug 20, 2019)

Im back in business! The headphone & nearfield system is wired and music is flowing. Im now working on wiring the H/T system,and after that I will wire my Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum system.



I still need to tidy up the wires when everything is completely live,but its good to have music again


----------



## rnros

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks for your helpful post! So a Hexfred is a brand and type of diode, and tested to be the most optimal for Glenn amps. I would be possibly interested to roll diodes at some point and to compare the sound between these and rectifiers, so I'll get the rectifier option on my GEL3N and the external adapter from Glenn to swap between these.



Not sure you would find too much SQ gain from rolling diodes or Hexfreds. Hexfreds are already at the high performance end when it comes to reducing noise and sounding closer to tube rectifiers.

This will give more detail:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/what-does-a-hexfred-do?highlight=hexfred


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Joe use a multimeter to check the heater circuit for continuity,, then put them on the adapter and recheck.



Stavros, my multimeter is at my brothers house and he died a few months ago and his wife is in Florida at this time...so no way I can get it...I will have another set of tubes in a few days


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Im back in business! The headphone & nearfield system is wired and music is flowing. Im now working on wiring the H/T system,and after that I will wire my Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum system.
> 
> 
> 
> I still need to tidy up the wires when everything is completely live,but its good to have music again



It looks likes it’s all coming together. Nice MZ.

That Lampizator is a beauty. *whistles*


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Im back in business! The headphone & nearfield system is wired and music is flowing. Im now working on wiring the H/T system,and after that I will wire my Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum system.
> 
> 
> 
> I still need to tidy up the wires when everything is completely live,but its good to have music again




Congrats, you are back in business....enjoy that killer set-up!


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Im back in business!



Welcome back to business or should I say pleasure.  I'll be getting a rack too for this home away from home.

Meanwhile just enjoying the Verite as the burn in rolls along. HD800 and LCD-3f are just at arms reach for comparison.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I'm listening to my new Tung-Sol 6N7G right now, nice tube, very deep bass.  It is actually very similar in construction to the National Union 6N7G I have on hand.  Plates are identical, top mica is the same shape but different coating, bottom mica is different, and obviously the Tung-Sol has their characteristic black coating.  Makes me wonder which one is the imposter...my money is on the National Union.

It always throws me off when producers use a lot of low-fi sound effects in music, or I can hear a ground loop from a guitar amp. I think to myself, "Aww crap, white noise in the right channel, another bad tube."  They're going to give me an anxiety attack.


----------



## mordy

Today's tube trivia question: Which tube has the same designation as a lot of men's clothing?
And why is this relevant?
Hint:


----------



## gibosi

After having uploaded pictures of the Loewe and Valvo mesh-plate AZ12 yesterday, I thought I should upload this one of the Telefunken AZ12.


----------



## UntilThen

I am willing to adopt one of your tested and working AZ12.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> After having uploaded pictures of the Loewe and Valvo mesh-plate AZ12 yesterday, I thought I should upload this one of the Telefunken AZ12.


Great picture! You could send it to JACMusic to add to his displays........


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I am willing to adopt one of your tested and working AZ12.



Unfortunately, none of my kids are up for adoption. lol 

But again, these tubes occasionally popup on eBay and with a bit of luck and patience one can be yours.


----------



## UntilThen

Tubes start arriving. 

The 2 on the left are the new arrivals. Looks to be in very good condition.


----------



## UntilThen

GEC L63 from Langrex. They are much bigger than I expected. Very new.


----------



## UntilThen

Triotron EL11s boxes are big ! Compared to the GEC 6080 boxes.


----------



## UntilThen

Triotron EL11s and Siemens EL11s together. The top of the tube constructions are similar but the glass bottle are slightly different. Need a sound test.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> After having uploaded pictures of the Loewe and Valvo mesh-plate AZ12 yesterday, I thought I should upload this one of the Telefunken AZ12.




I am guessing this would be the brighter of the three mesh plates that you have shown ?


----------



## 2359glenn

Nice tubes
Have you tried the 6080s?


----------



## UntilThen

Haven't tried any of the tubes. Will wait for this Sat. 

Verite has all my attention now.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I am guessing this would be the brighter of the three mesh plates that you have shown ?



My guess is that the Telefunken AZ12 is the brightest in glow and tone. 

Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the brightest of them all.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 21, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> My guess is that the Telefunken AZ12 is the brightest in glow and tone.
> 
> Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the brightest of them all.



Me too...Telefunken has a brighter house sound so to speak of most rectifiers I have tried.


----------



## rosgr63

whirlwind said:


> Stavros, my multimeter is at my brothers house and he died a few months ago and his wife is in Florida at this time...so no way I can get it...I will have another set of tubes in a few days



Hi Joe,
Sorry to hear that.
A continuity tester is very cheap about $5, a tool worth having.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DT-830B-LC...=163192883753735e112ea28e4375a6bc825d2e26cfd5

You can even use a battery and a torch bulb,,,,,,,


----------



## UntilThen

In the world of mesh plate rectifier, this is probably the most desirable. It even bears the name of the amp that I am trying to recreate - Klangfilm. But no way I'll pay that much.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1x-KLAN...133&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 21, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> The three knobs on my amp are for volume, one/two tube mode, and I got an extra input on mine so it switches inputs....you would not need a knob for this unless you want it.
> 
> Can get the stepped attenuator if wanted....anything else would be best to ask Glenn.
> 
> Can't imagine you would need dual rectifiers.


Thanks for the answer. So in one tube mode with the driver bypassed, this means the rectifier (or Hexfred) is bypassed, right? Glenn chimed in too, and on it needing only 1 rectifier.



rnros said:


> Not sure you would find too much SQ gain from rolling diodes or Hexfreds. Hexfreds are already at the high performance end when it comes to reducing noise and sounding closer to tube rectifiers.
> 
> This will give more detail:
> https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/what-does-a-hexfred-do?highlight=hexfred



Yes I see the Hexfred is tested to perform the best on this amp. But at some point I may like to experiment rolling different diodes because sometimes a certain component of a system can yield more preferable sound depending on synergy with the output tubes and headphones... yielding a different result that may not be technically superior but give an interesting flavor.


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> Tubes start arriving.
> 
> The 2 on the left are the new arrivals. Looks to be in very good condition.



Nice. I want another pair of GEC 6060's so I can run them in quad!


----------



## whirlwind

rosgr63 said:


> Hi Joe,
> Sorry to hear that.
> A continuity tester is very cheap about $5, a tool worth having.
> 
> ...




My wife will be putting in a large order from amazon sometime next week......I will just add one to her cart


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Nice. I want another pair of GEC 6060's so I can run them in quad!



Not sure if you've tried quad 6080 or 6as7. There's a lot more power and force. It's quite evident when I tried 2 x 5998 vs 4 x 5998. 

That's why I like 6 x 6bx7 or 6BL7. Very nice slam.


----------



## DecentLevi

Also I was just curious if anyone happens to have a general measurement of the GEL3N output load? For example 2 watts per channel into 32 ohms, 500 MW per channel into 300 ohms, etc.


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> Not sure if you've tried quad 6080 or 6as7. There's a lot more power and force. It's quite evident when I tried 2 x 5998 vs 4 x 5998.
> 
> That's why I like 6 x 6bx7 or 6BL7. Very nice slam.



Yea, I've ran several quad 6080/6as7 configs. Love the dynamics.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 21, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Also I was just curious if anyone happens to have a general measurement of the GEL3N output load? For example 2 watts per channel into 32 ohms, 500 MW per channel into 300 ohms, etc.



Best to ask Glenn, but I think he told me 2 watts at 50 ohms when he build mine....I wanted something to power the 50 Ohm ZMF Ori better than the OTL
I may be wrong, but this is what my old memory is telling me.

There really is no worries...the amp will power high and low impedance cans with ease unless you are going to be using something like HE-6 or something similar.
Heck the OTL with four 6AS7G tubes will make it sound dang good....but they are just different amps ....transformer coupled amps sound damn good, as long as the quality of transformers are good and Glenn uses very good ones.

I think a lot of people get caught up on on how much power something has...but hey you are just powering headphones....much more other things involved.

For what it is worth my GS-X mk2 has more pure power than my GEL3N.....but it means squat really as far as comparing their sound. YMMV

I have used 50 Ohm planar to 300 Ohm dynamics and they all sound great
I liked the HD800 the least because of it's sensitivity. Just because I liked it least does not mean it was not good....it was excellent after the amp has warmed up for a good hour or so.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I am guessing this would be the brighter of the three mesh plates that you have shown ?



Yes, tonally, the Telefunken is the brightest, followed by the Valvo and then the Loewe. And even the Loewe is a fairly bright rectifier. But in terms of putting on a visual show, it's pretty obvious that the Loewe is the one to get.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Yes, tonally, the Telefunken is the brightest, followed by the Valvo and then the Loewe. And even the Loewe is a fairly bright rectifier. But in terms of putting on a visual show, it's pretty obvious that the Loewe is the one to get.




Thanks Ken.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> For what it is worth my GS-X mk2 has more pure power than my GEL3N.....but it means squat really as far as comparing their sound. YMMV



It's not about power indeed. The Ragnarok that I had, had a lot more power than the GOTL. When I bought Yggdrasil and Ragnarok, it's like I've discovered gold. I love that pairing so much. 

Then 8 months later GOTL arrived and I was astounded by how good the OTL amp sound. Gradually, Ragnarok was moved to the floor and eventually sold off within a year of owning it. Not that the Rag was horrible sounding but I just prefer the OTL amp so much more.

Now I've got 3 more solid state amps again. I left the Redgum at home for driving the big speakers. I have 2 Sansui amps. The AU-717 has a glorious organic and warm tone. It hearkens back to the golden days of audio where many love that kind of sound. The Au Alpha 907MR is near the end of Sansui brilliant engineering design. It's a fully balanced amp and is near their top end Alpha series. The 907MR is more neutral and what many Sansui lovers would call an audiophile sound. 

Despite that, the GOTL still has the edge with driving headphones. I love it. I know that Glenn has created a great sounding transformer coupled amp in the GEL3N and I'm just waiting my turn to have the GEL11 made.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 21, 2019)

Speaking of quad output tubes, I've been trying to figure out what my showstopper GOTL setup is going to be at ZMFestivus.  I think it will be some variation of 6J5 inputs, quad Tung-Sol 7802 outputs.  The 6J5 provides copious air and staging, the 7802s give the tightest bass and greatest dynamics that I have heard in the GOTL and detail in spades.  I can't imagine what this will sound like with the Vérité, I'm eager to find out.

Now just a matter of figuring out which 6J5s.  The Visseaux 6J5G, Orsram L63, and Sylvania VT-94D are all in contention and sound incredible.  I'll have lots of other tubes with me to showcase what a chameleon the GOTL is too.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 21, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Nice. I want another pair of GEC 6060's so I can run them in quad!



Langrex just posted a batch of GEC 6080.  Get 'em while they're hot!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-CV5008-GEC-KB-Z-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-LC10/264437744877?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=59b7c3d03ab84b13a800a9d4aaa08375&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=264437744877&itm=264437744877&pg=2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:1052be8f-c41b-11e9-99c3-74dbd1802eea|parentrq:b4743e7e16c0a4b77cd14306fff7d116|iid:1


----------



## Phantaminum (Aug 21, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> It's not about power indeed. The Ragnarok that I had, had a lot more power than the GOTL. When I bought Yggdrasil and Ragnarok, it's like I've discovered gold. I love that pairing so much.
> 
> Then 8 months later GOTL arrived and I was astounded by how good the OTL amp sound. Gradually, Ragnarok was moved to the floor and eventually sold off within a year of owning it. Not that the Rag was horrible sounding but I just prefer the OTL amp so much more.
> 
> ...



Out of all of the SS amps that I’ve heard, none have come close to the layering, sound stage, and width as the ECP Ravenswood. It does all the GOTL does but at the price of $2700. So even with the GOTL at $1600 with cheapo Svetlana power tubes and a Tung Sol 6C8G you’re still ahead $1000. It’s almost a steal at that price. Glenn’s the man.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Speaking of quad output tubes, I've been trying to figure out what my showstopper GOTL setup is going to be at ZMFestivus. I think it will be some variation of 6J5 inputs, quad Tung-Sol 7802 outputs.



Oh...I can see it now:
Dude! These power tubes sound great! Where can I get some?
Errmmm...You cant.




Phantaminum said:


> Out of all of the SS amps that I’ve heard, none have come close to the layering, sound stage, and width as the ECP Ravenswood.



Ive heard great things about that amp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 21, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Oh...I can see it now:
> Dude! These power tubes sound great! Where can I get some?
> Errmmm...You cant.



Yeah good point, maybe I will do something else and keep these behind the counter if someone is really interested.  Probably do a 6BX7 setup in that case.  I can at least show off the 6J5s, those are still very plentiful and sound great.  There are 7802s hiding somewhere in the US, I think they just aren't well known enough so sellers probably overlook them.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Oh...I can see it now:
> Dude! These power tubes sound great! Where can I get some?
> Errmmm...You cant.
> 
> ...



You have to hear the Auteur out of it. The Verite sounds great out of it but the Auteur just steals the show. Never heard anything quite like it. Which is really saying I was very impressed.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> There are 7802s hiding somewhere in the US,



Yep. I hear some dude in Cleveland is hoarding them all.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Yep. I hear some dude in Cleveland is hoarding them all.



Pure luck!  I'm no hoarder, I swear...

   

I do need more desk drawers though for...things.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Pure luck!  I'm no hoarder, I swear...
> 
> 
> 
> I do need more desk drawers though for...things.



Of course not...


----------



## mordy (Aug 21, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Of course not...


How did you get hold of a picture of my listening room?
The truth is that if I clean up I can't find anything. Now I know that what I need probably is 2" down at 3 o'clock on my desk.....


----------



## heliosphann

heliosphann said:


> Nice. I want another pair of GEC 6060's so I can run them in quad!





L0rdGwyn said:


> Langrex just posted a batch of GEC 6080.  Get 'em while they're hot!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-CV5008-GEC-KB-Z-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-LC10/264437744877?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=59b7c3d03ab84b13a800a9d4aaa08375&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=264437744877&itm=264437744877&pg=2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:1052be8f-c41b-11e9-99c3-74dbd1802eea|parentrq:b4743e7e16c0a4b77cd14306fff7d116|iid:1



Wow, ask and you shall receive!

Now I need a pair of GEC 6as7g's...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> Wow, ask and you shall receive!
> 
> Now I need a pair of GEC 6as7g's...



I'm tempted to grab another pair myself!  I keep saying I am going to stop buying tubes, then another one on my wish list pops up.

Again, not a hoarder, be strong...


----------



## mordy

There is always that little voice that says: Buy it now, the prices can only go up! Why, it is a good investment!
Gotta be strong and resist! After all, how many vacuum tubes can a man need? 1000?

Wife: Honey, why do you have so many of those glass thingamajigs?
Me: I am looking for sonic perfection.......

The truth is that all the well known better tubes really have increased a lot in value in the last couple of years. But I am not selling......Several times I found that tubes that were set aside aside and never used suddenly got a new shining lease of life in a new combination.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 21, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Best to ask Glenn, but I think he told me 2 watts at 50 ohms when he build mine....I wanted something to power the 50 Ohm ZMF Ori better than the OTL
> I may be wrong, but this is what my old memory is telling me.
> 
> There really is no worries...the amp will power high and low impedance cans with ease unless you are going to be using something like HE-6 or something similar.
> ...


Yeah I'm definitely not using the output  power as the final word on an amps' performance. I was just asking out of general curiosity.

Though I will say something I would dare never say on the Feliks Audio threads. After years getting used to their sound which pumps out a miniscule load of just 300 MW or thereabouts, I finally tried another amp of a similar price & size yet much more powerful and being transformer coupled (Quad PA One *+*), and I could definitely hear a massive improvement in the likes of dynamics / driver control and being taken 'deeper in the the scene'. To be fair though the better Feliks Audio amp had a slight edge in transparency, but that was about it really. I have no question the GEL3N or GEL11 amps have sufficient power, as well as other fine details helping it excel.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Langrex just posted a batch of GEC 6080.  Get 'em while they're hot!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-CV5008-GEC-KB-Z-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-LC10/264437744877?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=59b7c3d03ab84b13a800a9d4aaa08375&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=264437744877&itm=264437744877&pg=2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:1052be8f-c41b-11e9-99c3-74dbd1802eea|parentrq:b4743e7e16c0a4b77cd14306fff7d116|iid:1



It's a good price too for NOS tubes. I got my pair for AUD$150 or ~US$100 shipping included as it's local and mine has done about 30 hours according to the seller, who happen to be my friend.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> It's a good price too for NOS tubes. I got my pair for AUD$150 or ~US$100 shipping included as it's local and mine has done about 30 hours according to the seller, who happen to be my friend.


I got a used one for about $20-30, and have been looking for a similar deal. But.......lol


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I'm tempted to grab another pair myself!  I keep saying I am going to stop buying tubes, then another one on my wish list pops up.
> 
> Again, not a hoarder, be strong...



I too have stopped buying tubes for the GOTL because I've way too many tubes for my needs. Tubes will instead be purchased for the new amp and even that I should have enough except for more rectifiers ....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I too have stopped buying tubes for the GOTL because I've way too many tubes for my needs. Tubes will instead be purchased for the new amp and even that I should have enough except for more rectifiers ....



I think the bulk of my GOTL tube buying is behind me as well, but there are a few more 6J5s I am hunting down.  They are becoming my preferred input tube in the GOTL.  They can also be had for very good prices compared to the 6SN7s, excluding the GEC L63 and other rarities.  I also think they sound better.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 21, 2019)

While I'm on the topic, if anyone has or is going to have a 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter and is trying to save some money, let me remind you that you can also use 12J5 tubes using this adapter and the 12V setting on the GOTL.

Talk about cheap input tubes, $25-$30 per pair.  Here are some examples:

Sylvania VT-135:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Matche...doAAOSwpONZR~v8:sc:USPSFirstClass!44121!US!-1

Sylvania 12J5GT:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Ma...028317&hash=item2617e4fc5d:g:eEUAAOSwS3NclGRt

Tung-Sol 12J5GT (believe these are ladder plates, seller does not have a photo):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-J...123600?hash=item51e5e1ae10:g:hfgAAOxyTyBSXaSh

RCA VT-135 wartime, a little more expensive at $50, one pair left:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-VT-13...528742?hash=item56b34062e6:g:Oj0AAOSwH~ZbUQh9

National Union 12J5GT:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12J5GT-N-U...352386?hash=item3410096c42:g:zy0AAOSwXTVcLGuq


----------



## gibosi

Telefunken mesh-plate AZ12 rectifiers:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PAIR-TELEFUNKEN-AZ12-RGN2004-BLACK-MESH-PLATES/123880616141

About $320 for a pair, but if two buyers split the cost, $160 each.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> You have to hear the Auteur out of it. The Verite sounds great out of it but the Auteur just steals the show. Never heard anything quite like it. Which is really saying I was very impressed.



The Auteur with 7802 as power tubes in GOTL? I wasn't going to spend another $1 on headphones after buying Verite because that headphone is a pretty penny at AUD$3660 including FexEd International Priority shipping.

Despite not wanting to let out much impressions of the Verite till much later, I have to say that Verite is quite an incredible sounding headphone. It's like a tiny rose bud that is slowly opening up now. I'm using the flat Verite lamb skin pads now which I much prefer for the increase in clarity, details and soundstage.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Telefunken mesh-plate AZ12 rectifiers:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PAIR-TELEFUNKEN-AZ12-RGN2004-BLACK-MESH-PLATES/123880616141
> 
> About $320 for a pair, but if two buyers split the cost, $160 each.



Who wants to split the cost with me?   I have a soft spot for Telefunken AZ12 black mesh plate now.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> The Auteur with 7802 as power tubes in GOTL? I wasn't going to spend another $1 on headphones after buying Verite because that headphone is a pretty penny at AUD$3660 including FexEd International Priority shipping.
> 
> Despite not wanting to let out much impressions of the Verite till much later, I have to say that Verite is quite an incredible sounding headphone. It's like a tiny rose bud that is slowly opening up now. I'm using the flat Verite lamb skin pads now which I much prefer for the increase in clarity, details and soundstage.



The Auteur out of the ECP Ravenwood amp.     The Auteur is a great headphone and pairs damn well on the GOTL. Probably my favorite headphone even with owning the Verite.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> After all, how many vacuum tubes can a man need? 1000?


I did a count last week, and I'm getting very close to that amount... Seems a lot until you talk to other guys with 20,000.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> The Auteur is a great headphone and pairs damn well on the GOTL. Probably my favorite headphone even with owning the Verite.



I prefer the tonality of the Auteur,but the 3D imaging of the Verite has me hooked. Now if I could get the Auteur to do that.....


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> I prefer the tonality of the Auteur,but the 3D imaging of the Verite has me hooked. Now if I could get the Auteur to do that.....



Waiting on Zach to create the Auteurite.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Out of all of the SS amps that I’ve heard, none have come close to the layering, sound stage, and width as the ECP Ravenswood. It does all the GOTL does but at the price of $2700. So even with the GOTL at $1600 with cheapo Svetlana power tubes and a Tung Sol 6C8G you’re still ahead $1000. It’s almost a steal at that price. Glenn’s the man.



No not really I fake it and it just happens to work.
I have been using the same 6SN7/6J5 circuit since I was 12 years old.  Simple stuff a child can do it. Just have better parts now.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I did a count last week, and I'm getting very close to that amount... Seems a lot until you talk to other guys with 20,000.



It's not about quantity. Your 1000 must be the cream of the crop. Now slip me a ECC32 and your pair of Marconi KT66.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright why did I start on this hobby. It all started because my son came home one day with the Aune T1, several years ago.


----------



## Phantaminum (Aug 21, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> No not really I fake it and it just happens to work.
> I have been using the same 6SN7/6J5 circuit since I was 12 years old.  Simple stuff a child can do it. Just have better parts now.



It’s like that ship engine repairman story. The ship owners were having issues with the engine and for a week couldn’t figure out how to get it running. They called and expert and after a few minutes, he pulled out a hammer, hit it in a specific spot and it started. A few days later they get a bill for $10,000 and the owner is outraged at how much it is for the time spent fixing it. He asks for it to be itemized.

Tapping with a hammer - $1.00
Experience - $9,999.00

Can’t replace experience Glenn.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 21, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> No not really I fake it and it just happens to work.
> I have been using the same 6SN7/6J5 circuit since I was 12 years old.  Simple stuff a child can do it. Just have better parts now.



I feel like even doing a beginner Bottlehead kit with step-by-step instructions would be difficult for a 12-year-old (heck, it is difficult for grown men), let alone designing a top-of-the-line OTL circuit working with voltages over 100V.  That is probably a death sentence for a lot of 12-year-olds!


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I feel like even doing a beginner Bottlehead kit with step-by-step instructions would be difficult for a 12-year-old (heck, it is difficult for grown men),


Yeah,Glenn is _seriously_ over estimating the average 12 year old.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I feel like even doing a beginner Bottlehead kit with step-by-step instructions would be difficult for a 12-year-old (heck, it is difficult for grown men), let alone designing a top-of-the-line OTL circuit working with voltages over 100V.  That is probably a death sentence for a lot of 12-year-olds!



I was younger then that when I got nailed with 350 volts DC working on a 6V6 amplifier. Never felt anything like that I knew I was dead.
Was lying there on the floor waiting for the darkness of death to take over. Nothing happened. I don't think I would let my child play with
stuff that I played with as a child.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,Glenn is _seriously_ over estimating the average 12 year old.



The average 12 year old leads a pretty different life these days too, but I'm not trying to take away from your point because I wholeheartedly agree with it.

We all have different gifts and sometimes forget that what's easy for one person is intimidating for another.  Personally I would *love* to be able to DIY and make my own stuff.  I admire people who can.  But, it just doesn't come naturally to me.  First and foremost because I'm simply clumsy with my hands and that problem doesn't seem to ease with practice at a task.  I'd love to be able to solder, but I just suck at it no matter how many times I try, but everybody who tutors me just keeps saying "it's so easy why can't you just do it!" and eventually that kind of feedback starts to breed a bit of cynicism out of the frustration.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> I was younger then that when I got nailed with 350 volts DC working on a 6V6 amplifier. Never felt anything like that I knew I was dead.
> Was lying there on the floor waiting for the darkness of death to take over. Nothing happened. I don't think I would let my child play with
> stuff that I played with as a child.



Woah!  My point exactly, building with those high voltages is serious business.  Glad you were able to build such a great circuit at that age, but if I had kids, I wouldn't let them near those voltages.  Don't sell your circuit short (no pun intended), few kids other than you could have built it and it has made a lot of people very happy, me included.


----------



## pippen99 (Aug 21, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> The average 12 year old leads a pretty different life these days too, but I'm not trying to take away from your point because I wholeheartedly agree with it.
> 
> We all have different gifts and sometimes forget that what's easy for one person is intimidating for another.  Personally I would *love* to be able to DIY and make my own stuff.  I admire people who can.  But, it just doesn't come naturally to me.  First and foremost because I'm simply clumsy with my hands and that problem doesn't seem to ease with practice at a task.  I'd love to be able to solder, but I just suck at it no matter how many times I try, but everybody who tutors me just keeps saying "it's so easy why can't you just do it!" and eventually that kind of feedback starts to breed a bit of cynicism out of the frustration.



I fully understand your frustration. I was born and raised on a farm yet my mechanical ability consisted of handing my father the correct wrench 80% of the time.  I am who I am.


----------



## attmci

rosgr63 said:


> Hi Joe,
> Sorry to hear that.
> A continuity tester is very cheap about $5, a tool worth having.
> 
> ...


Sounds familiar?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-6AS7G-...937825?hash=item364d68a5e1:g:nxkAAOSwPRFc2cWy


----------



## heliosphann

attmci said:


> Sounds familiar?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-6AS7G-...937825?hash=item364d68a5e1:g:nxkAAOSwPRFc2cWy



Yea, good luck with that.


----------



## 2359glenn

I was dangerous as a child.
The most dangerous thing there was was the library good thing there was no such thing as the internet.
Chemicals were another fun toy.
I lived through childhood though.


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> Yea, good luck with that.



Crazy price I looked at it when one of mine died.
There are other tubes that sound good.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> Sounds familiar?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-6AS7G-...937825?hash=item364d68a5e1:g:nxkAAOSwPRFc2cWy



That's Stavros' old tube, that's why attmci linked it 



2359glenn said:


> I was dangerous as a child.
> The most dangerous thing there was was the library good thing there was no such thing as the internet.
> Chemicals were another fun toy.
> I lived through childhood though.



Right there with you Glenn.  Fire, chemicals, explosives, I look back and think I'm lucky to be alive.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> That's Stavros' old tube, that's why attmci linked it
> 
> 
> 
> Right there with you Glenn.  Fire, chemicals, explosives, I look back and think I'm lucky to be alive.



Mongoose BMX bikes,Farrah Fawcett posters,listening to the Ramones and Blondie,and watching Starsky and Hutch....thats my year 12 activities.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Crazy price I looked at it when one of mine died.
> There are other tubes that sound good.


Wait, dead already? Sorry to hear that.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> That's Stavros' old tube, that's why attmci linked it
> 
> 
> 
> Right there with you Glenn.  Fire, chemicals, explosives, I look back and think I'm lucky to be alive.


Stavros don't have any leftovers. Ken may have a lot of these.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Stavros don't have any leftovers. Ken may have a lot of these.



A lot? I don't think so.. 

But yes, I do have three pairs in my collection, representing the production years, 1949, 1956 and 1960.

However, as I have said before, none of my kids are up for adoption. lol


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> I was younger then that when I got nailed with 350 volts DC working on a 6V6 amplifier. Never felt anything like that I knew I was dead.
> Was lying there on the floor waiting for the darkness of death to take over. Nothing happened. I don't think I would let my child play with
> stuff that I played with as a child.





2359glenn said:


> Chemicals were another fun toy.
> I lived through childhood though.





L0rdGwyn said:


> Right there with you Glenn. Fire, chemicals, explosives, I look back and think I'm lucky to be alive.



Not luck guys - Darwin at work!


----------



## attmci (Aug 21, 2019)

gibosi said:


> A lot? I don't think so..
> 
> But yes, I do have three pairs in my collection, representing the production years, 1949, 1956 and 1960.
> 
> However, as I have said before, none of my kids are up for adoption. lol


Ken, all these have foil cup getters right?


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> I think the bulk of my GOTL tube buying is behind me as well, but there are a few more 6J5s I am hunting down.  They are becoming my preferred input tube in the GOTL.  They can also be had for very good prices compared to the 6SN7s, excluding the GEC L63 and other rarities.  I also think they sound better.





L0rdGwyn said:


> While I'm on the topic, if anyone has or is going to have a 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter and is trying to save some money, let me remind you that you can also use 12J5 tubes using this adapter and the 12V setting on the GOTL.
> 
> Talk about cheap input tubes, $25-$30 per pair.  Here are some examples:
> 
> ...



Are you using Deyan's 2x6J5 --> 6SN7 adapter?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Are you using Deyan's 2x6J5 --> 6SN7 adapter?



Yessiree, Deyan's 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yessiree, Deyan's 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter.



I’m waiting for that adapter to arrive.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 21, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I’m waiting for that adapter to arrive.



Great times ahead then, I have a little collection of 6J5s now and can say I prefer them over most 6SN7s.  My theory is that there is some advantage to having the triodes in separate glass envelopes.  Less crosstalk maybe?  Not sure, but they are just as linear.

Here's a nice little blog write-up on them: http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2013/03/tube-of-month-6j5.html

Here's what I have, they are all fantastic:

Fivre 6C5G
MOV L63
RFT 6J5
Sicte 6J5GT
Sylvania VT-94D
Visseaux 6J5MG (metal can)
Visseaux 6J5G (shouldered)


----------



## UntilThen

Do you have a GEC B36 to compare with the dual GEC L63?

I have those and would like to know the difference if any.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 21, 2019)

I do not, sorry.  I skipped the B36 and went straight to the L63 once I had the adapter, but I'd imagine they are very similar tonally.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Ken, all these have foil cup getters right?



Yes, the 1956 and 1960 have one inverted cup getter, and the 1949 has two smaller inverted cup getters, one on each side.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I do not, sorry.  I skipped the B36 and went straight to the L63 once I had the adapter, but I'd imagine they are very similar tonally.


 I really like the B36. One of my favs.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Yes, the 1956 and 1960 have one inverted cup getter, and the 1949 has two smaller inverted cup getters, one on each side.


I am not sure if these are late GEC?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...e-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/page-743


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> the 1949 has two smaller inverted cup getters, one on each side.


Very rare. Would you mind posting a picture? The single inverted cup getters appear to be the most common. I stumbled across 2 with D getters.


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> I am not sure if these are late GEC?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-–-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/page-743


I think those are the last type made with halo getters. 1969 on those.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> I do not, sorry.  I skipped the B36 and went straight to the L63 once I had the adapter, but I'd imagine they are very similar tonally.


Have you tried the GEC L63 ?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Have you tried the GEC L63 ?



Yes, but only the shouldered grey glass, I have two pairs, they are very good, arguably the best.  I have not heard the straight bottle type, but I have been told they are very good as well.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Very rare. Would you mind posting a picture? The single inverted cup getters appear to be the most common. I stumbled across 2 with D getters.



Again, this tube was manufactured in 1949, so fairly early


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 22, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> No not really I fake it and it just happens to work.
> I have been using the same 6SN7/6J5 circuit since I was 12 years old.  Simple stuff a child can do it. Just have better parts now.







True story:
When I was about 7 I was tinkering around with building circuits on electronic project labs safe for kids and recording sound effects on tape, and discovered how to test batteries using your tongue & finger, also collecting flashlights. Later in my teens I had a crafted spinning disco ball in my room from a soda can+flashlight I hacked, was beat mixing and making sound effects with combinations of cassette / CD /  Super Nintendo and interfacing VR glasses with the family VCR. My sound system consisted of a car stereo connected to a 12v P/S in my bedroom with vintage speakers and 2 dual-tape boomboxes connected to a huge TV antenna via coax cable on the roof to receive special FM radio programs from 100's of miles away. I always wanna go back there! I was popular in school but not in a so good way and my parents never knew what to do with me.

It wasn't until decades later that I discovered I was an audiophile.

Though I'm not quite up to the task of building my own amp, and I'm so looking forward to @2359glenn EL3N beast!


----------



## rosgr63 (Aug 22, 2019)

attmci said:


> Sounds familiar?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-6AS7G-...937825?hash=item364d68a5e1:g:nxkAAOSwPRFc2cWy



This is one of my tubes selling at an inflated price.
My ugly hand writing on ebay..........

It's not the first time either.


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> Stavros don't have any leftovers. Ken may have a lot of these.



I don't ask or buy tubes from Stavros. He is to good of a friend for that.


----------



## rosgr63

2359glenn said:


> I don't ask or buy tubes from Stavros. He is to good of a friend for that.



I know Glenn we are thousands of miles apart and yet so close.

These were sold sometime ago before I knew you were looking for them.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 22, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I think I have a giant killer on my hands gentlemen...
> 
> Meet the Sylvania VT-94D, aka the 6J5 version of the Sylvania 6SN7W metal base.  I started noticing a pattern as I was rolling 6J5 tubes that they seemed to hold an inherent advantage over their 6SN7 counterparts.  So, who wouldn't want a improved 6SN7W metal base?
> 
> ...



Just came across someone else who shares this opinion, some random guy on Audiogon 

"In a Hollywood twist ending, it turns out that the best 6SN7 is not a 6SN7 at all, it's a pair of 6J5 / 6J5-G / 6J5-GT, each of which, electronically identical to one half of a 6SN7 [...] the single triode, per bottle, sounds far better than any 6SN7. You can also buy metal based 6J5-GT, which sound way better than Sylvania's metal base 6SN7's and you can usually find a quad of them, cheaper than you can buy the Sylvania 6SN7 W, metal base and / or the Sylvania 6SN7 A metal base.  I have two quads which beat by a fairly wide margin, the world's most expensive 6SN7, which currently are,
the Osram / Marconi / B 65, metal base 6SN7."

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-best-make-that-the-all-time-best-6sn7

Just another data point, YMMV.


----------



## m17xr2b

Some say the MHL4, the predecessor of the L63 is the best.


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 22, 2019)

To bad about the 4 volt heater and B5 base but still easy to make a adapter for it.
Might have to try these.   Price not that bad.
Even though the GEC L63 sounds fantastic. 

Not a good thing that the 6J5 has been found out. The Sylvania 6J5 is round plate
and there best 6SN7 has flat plates. Round plates almost always sound better.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

m17xr2b said:


> Some say the MHL4, the predecessor of the L63 is the best.



Oh yeah well I've been told the glass and metal raw materials that preceeded the MHL4 are actually the most transparent.

Just kidding  looks like an interesting tube.



2359glenn said:


> To bad about the 4 volt heater and B5 base but still easy to make a adapter for it.
> Might have to try these.   Price not that bad.



Going to rewire your amp for 4V, Glenn?


----------



## m17xr2b

In theory you could build an adaptor with in built resistors on the heater pins to bring the voltage down from 6.3 to 4V.


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 22, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Oh yeah well I've been told the glass and metal raw materials that preceeded the MHL4 are actually the most transparent.
> 
> Just kidding  looks like an interesting tube.
> 
> ...



No but make a adapter for it. The adapter will get hot but no big deal.
That is 2.3 volts at 1 amp. A 2.3 ohm resistor and 2.3 watts dissipation.
Two 1.1 ohm resistors at 3 watts each will work fine one on each filament leg.


----------



## 2359glenn

Also thinking of trying the 7A4 they are also not expensive just needs a loktal socket


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Also thinking of trying the 7A4 they are also not expensive just needs a loktal socket


And that's the answer to my trivia question about a tube designation that sounds like a clothing designation - the 7A4 is also called XXL, LOL.
But, why not the 14A4? Should be even less expensive....


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> And that's the answer to my trivia question about a tube designation that sounds like a clothing designation - the 7A4 is also called XXL, LOL.
> But, why not the 14A4? Should be even less expensive....



Maybe but my amp is old and doesn't have the switch.


----------



## mordy

LOL


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> LOL



I really don't roll tubes much and like the L63.  The amp origanally had #27 drivers with 2.5 volt heaters.
I did pull the 6J5s out of two old radios Sylvania round plate and they sound great. Not as good as the L63 but who knows how many hours are on them.


----------



## attmci

rosgr63 said:


> This is one of my tubes selling at an inflated price.
> My ugly hand writing on ebay..........
> 
> It's not the first time either.


Haha. 

For some reason, I don't trust the seller who claims the tube is NIB.


----------



## attmci (Aug 22, 2019)

*@heliosphann*

*Do you still have the Matrix X-SPDIF 2? Useful or just a POS .*


I want to try DSD over I2S with this.

Thanks!


----------



## heliosphann

attmci said:


> *@heliosphann*
> 
> *Do you still have the Matrix X-SPDIF 2? Useful or just a POS .*
> 
> ...



I actually never ended up getting it. When I wanted to buy it, everyplace was sold out, so I ended up getting a Singxer SU-1. I was meaning to pick one up used to do some comparisons with the SU-1, but it wasn't a priority.


----------



## mordy

rosgr63 said: 
My ugly hand writing

I think that the handwriting is very neat and clear:




And no, I am not selling these two GEC tubes.....


----------



## heliosphann

mordy said:


> rosgr63 said:
> My ugly hand writing
> 
> I think that the handwriting is very neat and clear:
> ...



BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


----------



## UntilThen

It's Friday after work ! and Ulysses is coming home tomorrow. and Verite is burning like a roast lamb. It's more and more delicious with each passing day. It's going to be a great weekend.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It's Friday after work ! and Ulysses is coming home tomorrow. and Verite is burning like a roast lamb. It's more and more delicious with each passing day. It's going to be a great weekend.



Have a great weekend we are getting to go to work Friday morning.
The Verite keeps getting better and better for the first 300 hrs.  Definitely the best headphone I have just incredible.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Have a great weekend we are getting to go to work Friday morning.
> The Verite keeps getting better and better for the first 300 hrs.  Definitely the best headphone I have just incredible.



Haha, we're on the opposite side of the globe. When it's night for me, it's morning for you. You have a good day !

This weekend will be a continuous 48 hours of rock and roll.


----------



## UntilThen

I've just discovered Udo Lindenberg on Apple Music. He's awesome ! 

Here singing with Angus and Julia Stone


----------



## UntilThen

What a strange 24 hours it has been. 24 hours ago I almost pull the trigger on the ALO Audio Studio Six that came on the local forum classified. It's a SET amp. Single Ended Triode design. Rave reviews from some seasoned reviewers. This amp uses a single 6sn7 as driver and 2 x 6V6GT as power tubes. A pair of Raytheon glow discharge regulator tubes and a 5AR4 tube rectifier. I told myself that if the technician didn't come back to me on the OTL amp by today, then I will get the Studio Six. But the technician came back to me at 5pm and told me that Ulysses is ready to be collected by tomorrow afternoon. 

2 weeks ago, just before Verite arrival, my GOTL lost it's left channel. Don't know what happen but no amount of tapping, conjuring or begging would make the left channel power tubes light up. Found a reputable local amp repair and restore shop. It's call The FactoryAudio. They seem to know what they are doing. So I left the amp with them with a simple instruction. Make her sing again ! and change those sockets that I mess up. So I got a call at 5pm telling that the amp is ready for collection tomorrow afternoon. Happiness ! Studio Six can wait or probably be forgotten for good but from what I read, that is quite an amp.

I can't wait to fire up GOTL again and let the amp do it's job with Verite.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> What a strange 24 hours it has been. 24 hours ago I almost pull the trigger on the ALO Audio Studio Six that came on the local forum classified. It's a SET amp. Single Ended Triode design. Rave reviews from some seasoned reviewers. This amp uses a single 6sn7 as driver and 2 x 6V6GT as power tubes. A pair of Raytheon glow discharge regulator tubes and a 5AR4 tube rectifier. I told myself that if the technician didn't come back to me on the OTL amp by today, then I will get the Studio Six. But the technician came back to me at 5pm and told me that Ulysses is ready to be collected by tomorrow afternoon.
> 
> 2 weeks ago, just before Verite arrival, my GOTL lost it's left channel. Don't know what happen but no amount of tapping, conjuring or begging would make the left channel power tubes light up. Found a reputable local amp repair and restore shop. It's call The FactoryAudio. They seem to know what they are doing. So I left the amp with them with a simple instruction. Make her sing again ! and change those sockets that I mess up. So I got a call at 5pm telling that the amp is ready for collection tomorrow afternoon. Happiness ! Studio Six can wait or probably be forgotten for good but from what I read, that is quite an amp.
> 
> I can't wait to fire up GOTL again and let the amp do it's job with Verite.



I heard the same great things about the Studio Six. Great, body, fast and punchy. Supposedly only losing out in microdynamics to higher end tube amps. 

I have the Apex Teton and the Toolshed Darking amp being delivered today. Going to  see which one I’m going to keep. I do have people asking me about selling the the GOTL. Not even remotely thinking of that right now. I love my baby lol.


----------



## heliosphann

More tube dreams last night. This is getting out of hand...


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Verite is burning like a roast lamb. It's more and more delicious with each passing day.


You just made me so hungry!!!
I agree that ZMF cans MUST be burned-in. I was a skeptic until I got my Atticus (my 1st ZMF). I was disappointed out-of-the-box because it did not sound like the Atticus on CanJam... 100 hours later - I was so relieved and happy


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> I have the Apex Teton and the Toolshed Darking amp being delivered today. Going to see which one I’m going to keep.


Do tell us more, after some extensive listening and A/B-ing !!
BTW, never heard of either, and googling the Toolshed Darling (not Darking) - I liked their volume knob going all the way to 11


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> Do tell us more, after some extensive listening and A/B-ing !!
> BTW, never heard of either, and googling the Toolshed Darling (not Darking) - I liked their volume knob going all the way to 11



Autocorrect strikes again. Yeah his amps are gorgeous. We’ll see how it compares to the GOTL. I have high expectations because of it.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> More tube dreams last night. This is getting out of hand...



Youve cursed me.
Last night I sent out a mass email to eight different tube dealers asking for the 7802. I had a dream that one came back as positive. Woke up and checked my email....


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 23, 2019)

I have also heard very good things about the Studio Six and was close to buying one at one time.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I do have people asking me about selling the the GOTL. Not even remotely thinking of that right now. I love my baby lol.



Correct. GOTL will not leave me. That's why I found the best technician in Canberra to get it working again. I did not want to interrupt Glenn this time or inconvenience him because I know he's a busy man with a full time job and building the amps for eager customers in his off hours. I'm not going to keep those in the queue wait even longer.  Besides I do need a local technician for when I need the amp quick and fast without sending it back to USA.

GOTL is a part of me now. Gears have come and gone in the last 2 years but the GOTL have stayed. That's how much fondness I have for it.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 23, 2019)

I was able to find an elusive pair of 6J5 tubes I've been hunting, Tung-Sol 6J5G, can't wait to get ears on these tubes, expecting them to be a something like a super Tung-Sol 6SN7GT BGRP.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I have also heard very good things about the Studio Six and was close to buying one at one time.



The Studio Six is in Canberra and I only need to send the seller a message that I'm going over with my headphones for a test drive and if I like it, collect the amp on the spot. However I'm collecting the GOTL later today and I'm eager to listen to the Verite with the GOTL for the first time !

So there's much happening and I'm not one to rush in my audio journey, even if there's bargains to be had. 

Besides, Project Berlin is beckoning in the distance. I'm looking forward to that actually. I recall what Glenn suggested about using EL12 spez tubes in the power slots and that he will have the cable coming out from the output transformers to connect to the top of the anode on the EL12 spez, ala the 300b's connections for the tube rectifiers. It's a custom fit. That's the beauty in getting Glenn to build an amp for you. It's custom made for you. How good is that.


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> I was able to find an elusive pair of 6J5 tubes I've been hunting, Tung-Sol 6J5G, can't wait to get ears on these tubes, expecting them to be a something like a super Tung-Sol 6SN7GT BGRP.



I bet they sound amazing, but those are some clean looking tubes!


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I was able to find an elusive pair of 6J5 tubes I've been hunting, Tung-Sol 6J5G, can't wait to get ears on these tubes, expecting them to be a something like a super Tung-Sol 6SN7GT BGRP.



Gimme, gimme right now. 

Glenn have very high regards in using L63 / 6J5 as drivers or EL3Ns. I know he will build an excellent sounding amp using L63 / 6J5 as drivers and 6v6 / EL34, etcs as power tubes. As for me, I'm going with Berlin because that is equally, if not more exciting for me.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> That's the beauty in getting Glenn to build an amp for you. It's *custom made* for you. How good is that.


Totally agree!!


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 23, 2019)

Speaking of EL34's

A set of prestine  NOS Mullard EL34 xf2's  arrived a few minutes ago, branded Brimar.......but the adapters indeed are not working because as my KT63 tubes the filaments do not light up.

The fellow that I bought the tubes from said "I also gave you an xf2 pair that's lower on current draw which are most desirable because they won't run quite as hot and will last longer. Some dealers charge more for lower draw power tubes"

I will pm Deyan with my findings.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> The Studio Six is in Canberra and I only need to send the seller a message that I'm going over with my headphones for a test drive and if I like it, collect the amp on the spot. However I'm collecting the GOTL later today and I'm eager to listen to the Verite with the GOTL for the first time !
> 
> So there's much happening and I'm not one to rush in my audio journey, even if there's bargains to be had.
> 
> Besides, Project Berlin is beckoning in the distance. I'm looking forward to that actually. I recall what Glenn suggested about using EL12 spez tubes in the power slots and that he will have the cable coming out from the output transformers to connect to the top of the anode on the EL12 spez, ala the 300b's connections for the tube rectifiers. It's a custom fit. That's the beauty in getting Glenn to build an amp for you. It's custom made for you. How good is that.




Yes, that will be great....my GOTL has wires with grip caps coming from transformer for my 42EC4/PY500 rectifier tubes....same rectifier tubes as the 300B amp.


----------



## Deyan

whirlwind said:


> Speaking of EL34's
> 
> A set of prestine  NOS Mullard EL34 xf2's  arrived a few minutes ago, branded Brimar.......but the adapters indeed are not working because as my KT63 tubes the filaments do not light up.
> 
> ...



Guess I messed up. Well nothing that can't be fixed.


----------



## whirlwind

Deyan said:


> Guess I messed up. Well nothing that can't be fixed.



Don't feel bad....I mess something up everyday.....just ask my wife


----------



## Deyan

Kind of embarrassing. It's been quite a streak. A few that I messed up and a few that got smashed in the post.


----------



## UntilThen

Deyan said:


> Guess I messed up. *Well nothing that can't be fixed*.



Especially when the master adapter builder is working on it.  The adapters you made for me were great.


----------



## Deyan

UntilThen said:


> Especially when the master adapter builder is working on it.  The adapters you made for me were great.



Thank you.


----------



## Deyan

Wait till I make the ones for @rnros ( eventually )


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Don't feel bad....I mess something up everyday.....just ask my wife



I more than messed up. My wife sees me smiling when I type on the forum chat. She must think I've gone mental.

That's a very nice pair of EL34 by the way.


----------



## whirlwind

Deyan said:


> Kind of embarrassing. It's been quite a streak. A few that I messed up and a few that got smashed in the post.



Don't worry about it...there is no big hurry on my end and it will give time for all of my tubes to show up.
Don't sweat the small stuff, lol. 

I love the look of these adapters too! you can't really even tell there is an adapter in the amp as it just looks like the base of the tube....seriously...you do a wonderful job of making all of these adapters for everybody and we all appreciate it very much...they are top notch adapters.


----------



## Deyan

whirlwind said:


> Don't worry about it...there is no big hurry on my end and it will give time for all of my tubes to show up.
> Don't sweat the small stuff, lol.
> 
> I love the look of these adapters too! you can't really even tell there is an adapter in the amp as it just looks like the base of the tube....seriously...you do a wonderful job of making all of these adapters for everybody and we all appreciate it very much...they are top notch adapters.



They do look good but the next pair will be functional as well. I think I found the cause a day ago and that is I lose all of my concentration when someone starts talking to me I managed to make another mistake the other day. Luckily I caught it in time. I guess I'll start locking myself in the workshop.


----------



## UntilThen

That sounds like me calling up the technician every 2 days asking, 'Is my GOTL ready yet????' until he finally say, 'For Gawk's sake, I'm in the midst of soldering !!!' 

I hope when the GOTL comes back it will still look and sound like the GOTL.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> That sounds like me calling up the technician every 2 days asking, 'Is my GOTL ready yet????' until he finally say, 'For Gawk's sake, I'm in the midst of soldering !!!'
> 
> I hope when the GOTL comes back it will still look and sound like the GOTL.





This made me chuckle


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 23, 2019)

So even though I said I liked the Sylvania 6J5GT better than the 6SN7W, I have to point out that this is a good price for a nice pair of 6SN7W tall bottles if someone IS looking or does not want to use  6J5 to 6SN7 adapter, equivalent to the 6SN7W metal base.  A pair recently sold for double the price, these will go quickly.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401856722871?ul_noapp=true


----------



## 2359glenn

Here is a rectifier that can handle the OTL
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-RCA-...FcAAOSwUfVb~qoM:sc:USPSFirstClass!27507!US!-1


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Here is a rectifier that can handle the OTL
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-RCA-...FcAAOSwUfVb~qoM:sc:USPSFirstClass!27507!US!-1


Glenn - how does it compare to the 3DG4 or GZ34 / GZ37 ?
I assume it does not need any adapter?


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 23, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Here is a rectifier that can handle the OTL
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-RCA-...FcAAOSwUfVb~qoM:sc:USPSFirstClass!27507!US!-1




I got one of these from Stan at ESRC....mine is a GE and has a two halo getters at the top of the tube, one on each side.





ESRC has them for $10....not sure what brands he has.
http://www.esrcvacuumtubes.com/vacuumtubes_tubelist_tubes_5A5-5Z4G.html


----------



## 2359glenn

It can handle 350ma the 3DG4 has a lower voltage drop.

3DG4  voltage drop  25 V @ 350ma
GZ34 & GZ37 17 volts @  225ma can handle 250 ma but no voltage drop rating at 250ma
5V3   voltage drop 47 volts @ 350ma

The GZ34 & GZ37 is getting pushed hard in this amp.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> It can handle 350ma the 3DG4 has a lower voltage drop.
> 
> 3DG4  voltage drop  25 V @ 350ma
> GZ34 & GZ37 17 volts @  225ma can handle 250 ma but no voltage drop rating at 250ma
> ...


Pardon my ignorance, but would 47 volts drop (5V3) be better or worse than 25 volts drop (3DG4)?
Does one want more or less of a voltage drop for rectifier tube?!


----------



## 2359glenn

Less voltage drop is better but the sound will be different with more. It is really up to the person what sounds better.
Actually the 5CU4 @ 385ma is the best tube for this amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Just pick up Deyan’s dual L63 to 6sn7 adapters. Pick up GOTL in 3 hours time. Super excited.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 23, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Just pick up Deyan’s dual L63 to 6sn7 adapters. Pick up GOTL in 3 hours time. Super excited.



What 6J5s do you have again UT, GEC L63?  Eager to hear what others think!


----------



## UntilThen

LG, I only have one NOS pair of straight bottle GEC L63 from Langrex.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> LG, I only have one NOS pair of straight bottle GEC L63 from Langrex.



Well you cannot go wrong with GEC, interested to hear what you think compared to your B36.


----------



## UntilThen

I’ll also be able to test out my new EL11 arrivals to make sure they are working !

... and the set of quad GEC 6080.

Life’s good !!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Giving my Fivre 6N7G some head time, this is definitely an upper echelon tube for me, loads of detail, but nice Fivre flavor on top.  Great midrange body and texture, so smooth.  First time I've listened to it with the 7802 (s)quad.

I bought three Fivre 6N7Gs before the GOTL arrival.  One had a short, one was unbearably noisy, this one is just right, my pride and joy.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 23, 2019)

That is beautiful colour. I have a pair of the Fivre 6N7G brown base too. As well as Fivre 6N7G black base and Visseaux 6N7G and a pair of Marconi 6N7.

I haven't use the 6N7 family for a while. There are just too many nice tubes to roll but not enough time.

When GOTL returns, the first thing I do is to plug in the socket savers. Those new sockets needs to be treated with respect.


----------



## UntilThen

GOTL is back.  

I've never been so happy in my life. Getting a bit emotional but getting this baby restored to original glory with 7 new octal sockets and the amp operating perfectly again. Will ,the owner and engineer of The FactoryAudio in Canberra, is such a nice person to talk to. http://www.thefactoryaudio.com/

This is their mission statement.

_Based in Canberra, Australia, The Factory has established a reputation for being able to repair and upgrade any audio device made anywhere, by anyone, any time. We specialise in the difficult, (no repair is impossible) the challenging, the utterly confounding; in equipment that has been written off as "unrepairable". The classics, the average and the downright demonic, we can restore, refurbish, revitalise your audio equipment._


----------



## UntilThen

First up, I need to thank Glenn. I've thank him many times before but I need to thank him again for this incredible sounding OTL amp.

After a week spend with the amazing sounding Sansui au alpha 907mr, what greeted my ears on first listen of the GOTL is a OMG moment - again. The OTL amp is a living, breathing organism. Tubes does make a difference and the GOTL adds a 5th dimension. Ok I don't know what I'm babbling about but I know that what I'm hearing is better than any drugs.  Vocals are sooooo sweet and the killer dynamics. 

So Glenn, 'Thank You' for the GOTL. Tonally it sounds incredible..... and this is with the HD800. Yes I'm using the HD800 as a guinea pig headphone. If the amp blows up, it better not be the Verite. 

Here I've the socket savers plugged in as I promised myself. The first tubes used are the dual GEC L63 and 6 x 6BL7gt / gta. ( 4 gt and 2 gta to be precise because I'm a cheap skate I can't afford 6 of the same kind 

 

.... next I'll be plugging in Verite.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Here I've the socket savers plugged in as I promised myself.


Might be a dumb question but:
With other amps that I've tried using a socket saver, Everytime I pulled the tube - the saver came out with it. Which makes it totally useless and redundant. 
How do you pull the tubes out while keeping the saver plugged in?!


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Might be a dumb question but:
> With other amps that I've tried using a socket saver, Everytime I pulled the tube - the saver came out with it. Which makes it totally useless and redundant.
> How do you pull the tubes out while keeping the saver plugged in?!



Ok there is a easy way with this. Before you plug in the socket savers, use one of your not so quality / expensive tube. Now plug in your tube into the socket savers a few times so that it is not so tight like a brand new socket saver. The idea is make it the socket savers' sockets less tight but don't make it too loose.

Now you're ready to plug in your socket saver into the amp's sockets. Then plug in your tubes. When you remove your tubes, use one hand to hold down the socket saver. With the other hand, pull up the tube.


----------



## Deyan

Zachik said:


> Might be a dumb question but:
> With other amps that I've tried using a socket saver, Everytime I pulled the tube - the saver came out with it. Which makes it totally useless and redundant.
> How do you pull the tubes out while keeping the saver plugged in?!



You have to hold down the saver. The other option is to have a mechanism to screw it in. I'm working on a variant that can be tightened from the top without the need to open the amp.


----------



## Zachik

Deyan said:


> I'm working on a variant that can be tightened from the top without the need to open the amp.


Guess I know what my next order from you is going to be...


----------



## Deyan

Zachik said:


> Guess I know what my next order from you is going to be...



I have to make the prototype first


----------



## UntilThen

Verite with GOTL is outstanding but that's what I expect from this combination and I wasn't disappointed. L63 and 6BL7s is good but a bit lush. Perhaps the L63 are still brand new. I have to give it some time. However I am just doing some rapid changes to see what combination sounds good with Verite.

Now with Mullard EL32 and 6BL7s. This is really good. Every time I listen to the EL32, they seem very special to me. Soundstage is more spread out now. The band is now further back and the sound is more tight and less lush now, which I think is better with the Verite - all this from my perspective of course. I do like the EL32. They are outstanding with the 6BL7s.

Deyan's adapters for the EL32 is just superb. Very good craftsmanship.

These Mullard EL32 are the dark glass variety. I also have the same coke bottle shaped with clear glass and the straight glass. Have not done a comparison between these 3 version but these dark glass are just superb sounding. It could well be they are all superb sounding.


----------



## UntilThen

This EL32 with 6BL7s combination is so good I'm going to leave it a bit longer. The bass slam is a trade mark of the GOTL especially when paired with Verite. Bass slam along with dynamics, clarity, details. This tube combination is so good I'm giving it a score of 9 / 10.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 24, 2019)

This last time when my amp fail, I was using EL32 with 6bx7gt but it's not the tubes.

My technician prognosis is that I've mess up the sockets quite badly. I was using a screw driver to tighten the clips in the sockets. In doing so, I have push the clips too far down and that in turn must have broken the rather thick, stiff wire that connects the sockets.

Replacing the sockets, rewire and re-solder have fix the problem for good. Now I can use EL32 and 6BL7s for as long as I want and the amp is just rock steady.

So please take care of your sockets. Use socket savers from day 1 and forever until you're 100% sure you are not going to tube roll again.


----------



## UntilThen

The next combo is not one I want to promote because I'm still looking for those tubes. 

Siemens EL11 and 6BL7s listening to Metallica - Nothing Else Matters. When the bass drops, the visceral impact send shock waves through my body. This is with Verite. Truly nothing else matters after this. The next song that follows is even more mind blowing. Enter The Sandman by the same band.

Verite with this combo is intoxicating. Verite certainly benefits from a brighter driver or power tubes. EL11 is certainly brighter, with excellent treble extension and airs. It's not a universal standard though. If you prefer warm and lush, then this is not for you and that's perfectly ok. We all have preferences and it's certainly ok to prefer some other tubes that are not as bright. The EL3N will be the other alternative


----------



## UntilThen

Last combo for tonight.

I did not think that there would be other power tubes that appeal to me more than 6 x 6BL7s but I was wrong. In choosing the quad GEC 6080 I did not know what driver to pair it with so I selected the tried and tested Sylvania 6sn7w metal base.

Wow this is really good with Verite. I just have to increase the volume to 1pm. Very clean clear tone compared to the 6 x 6BL7s. Less bass bloom too. This is more refined and I like this combo a lot with Verite. Just a pretty expensive combo. 

In fact this combo shows that the EL11 combo above to be a bit bright and aggressive. I might have to rethink Berlin. Perhaps it's back to Vienna which is GEL3N. 

Well the first day that GOTL came back to me has brought me a lot of joy. With such a classic variety of tones, I don't feel the urge to buy Studio Six anymore. I haven't heard that so I wouldn't know how good it is but this I know. I have heard and sampled GOTL with my headphones and DAC. It will remain in my hall of fame because it's worthy of a TOTL tube amp status.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Last combo for tonight.
> 
> I did not think that there would be other power tubes that appeal to me more than 6 x 6BL7s but I was wrong. In choosing the quad GEC 6080 I did not know what driver to pair it with so I selected the tried and tested Sylvania 6sn7w metal base.
> 
> ...





All of those tubes,..Verite..GOTL..Good Music

Enjoy.


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> GOTL is back.
> 
> I've never been so happy in my life. Getting a bit emotional but getting this baby restored to original glory with 7 new octal sockets and the amp operating perfectly again. Will ,the owner and engineer of The FactoryAudio in Canberra, is such a nice person to talk to. http://www.thefactoryaudio.com/
> 
> ...



Oh no, time to hit the "ignore member" button.


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Oh no, time to hit the "ignore member" button.



You can run but you can't hide.


----------



## OctavianH

If ZMF has not already hired you for marketing, they should. If you continue to listen to rock music and describe it in that way you described Metallica I'll have to buy a pair and then my wallet will haunt you forever.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> If ZMF has not already hired you for marketing, they should. If you continue to listen to rock music and describe it in that way you described Metallica I'll have to buy a pair and then my wallet will haunt you forever.



I am working undercover for Zach. 

Babyboomers grew up with classic rock and I am one of them. Led Zep, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep are some of the bands I grew up with. Woodstock was much earlier. Then came Metallica, Nirvana, and much much later Muse. 

If you love rock, Verite + GOTL is a perfect combo.


----------



## OctavianH

I'll keep that in mind. Let's hope T1.2 is also a good match.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> I'll keep that in mind. Let's hope T1.2 is also a good match.



T1.2 will be a good match too. I spend considerable time with T1.1 and Elise and Euforia. Version 2 has more pronounced bass but I have not sampled it.


----------



## whirlwind

OctavianH said:


> I'll keep that in mind. Let's hope T1.2 is also a good match.




That headphone should be wonderful with this amp


----------



## OctavianH

Good, because I own 2 pairs of T1 second generation. If Verite is so good I'll keep in mind, I've seen they have some dealer in Germany so maybe I'll try them in my next trip there. 2nd iteration of T1 has more bass and less treble but excels in clarity and detail. Or at least this is how I see it. It has detachable cable and faux leather headband, which is a big downside since it starts to disintegrate after 2-3 years of usage. At the moment at my oldest T1.2 pair I mounted a T5p headband of real leather to be able to use them. All 4 are compatible and easily interchangable and since I have not used my T5p 1st gen during travels lately I decided to use it as spare parts for the T1s.


----------



## whirlwind

Nice collection of headphones


----------



## UntilThen

Sylvania 6sn7w with quad GEC 6080 is insane on Whole Lotta Love. The amp's hot now and Verite is on fire but who cares. All you need is whole lot of love. I want a lot of love. Way down inside. You need ...... L  O  V  E. 

Shake for me girl.... hahahahahahaha.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh nooooo Immigrant Song came on ... I'm doom now. No more sleep. It's Led Zep show and you need Verite from the land of ice and snow.


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Aug 24, 2019)

waiting for @2359glenn to build my amp then I can join the fun with Verite 



UntilThen said:


> I am working undercover for Zach.
> 
> Babyboomers grew up with classic rock and I am one of them. Led Zep, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep are some of the bands I grew up with. Woodstock was much earlier. Then came Metallica, Nirvana, and much much later Muse.
> 
> If you love rock, Verite + GOTL is a perfect combo.



agreed, rock is excellent on the Verite with its fast driver and warmish sound.

I do like playing this genre on the LCD-3 too, but the Verite does rock better for my tastes with the universe pads.


----------



## OctavianH

Hmm, wondering how would sound this on Verite. 







Regarding headphones, I sold recently a lot of the "collection" because I realized that I will never used them. I kept the 2 x T1.2 and the HD 600 + T5p for spare parts since Beyerdynamic are crazy pricing everything. A pair of leather earpads was somewhere around 120 EUR. The rest are gone. I never sell tubes. The girl, the tubes and the beer are never given to anyone else.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> waiting for @2359glenn to
> 
> 
> agreed, rock is excellent on the Verite with its fast driver and warmish sound.
> ...



Oh yeah I'm still on flat Verite pads. For Smoke On The Water, you need the warmer universe pads.


----------



## whirlwind

UsoppNoKami said:


> waiting for @2359glenn to
> 
> 
> agreed, rock is excellent on the Verite with its fast driver and warmish sound.
> ...





I would love to hear a comparison of the mids between LCD-3 and Verite
I listen mostly blues/rock


----------



## UntilThen

@OctavianH  I'm listening to Saxon Into The Labyrinth - Valley of the Kings. At this rate Verite doesn't need 150 hours to burn in. It's already burnt.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

whirlwind said:


> I would love to hear a comparison of the mids between LCD-3 and Verite
> I listen mostly blues/rock



Joe - I usually put on the LCD-3, enjoy it for a little while, then remember I have comfier headphones lol. Despite adding the CF headband, it's still a medieval torture device. 

Verite's mids would win by default XD


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I would love to hear a comparison of the mids between LCD-3 and Verite



I have the LCD-3f not the pre fazor. So the comparison will have to be with that and Verite but it will have to be tomorrow. Anymore comparisons tonight and I'll have to be hospitalised.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> @OctavianH  I'm listening to Saxon Into The Labyrinth - Valley of the Kings. At this rate Verite doesn't need 150 hours to burn in. It's already burnt.



300hrs c'mon bruh


----------



## UntilThen

Time for some Tung Sol 5998. Verite needs Tung Sol.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Oh yeah I'm still on flat Verite pads. For Smoke On The Water, you need the warmer universe pads.



In the 70s I went to a deep purple concert and my ears rang for two days after woods. Yesterday I think I did ear damage with the Verite and AC DC .
Got to have some self control but when the song is so good you have to crank it up.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

2359glenn said:


> In the 70s I went to a deep purple concert and my ears rang for two days after woods. Yesterday I think I did ear damage with the Verite and AC DC .
> Got to have some self control but when the song is so good you have to crank it up.



I went to a deep purple concert with family in the late 90s. They weren't really rocking hard anymore by then lol


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Time for some Tung Sol 5998. Verite needs Tung Sol. [/QUOT




I have tried four of these before....hang on for takeoff !


----------



## OctavianH

I use at the moment Elise 2nd generation, and tried a lot of tubes (including GEC 6AS7G and other "wonders") and for me, T1.2 need all the time Psvane CV181T2+Tung Sol 5998. Cannot say why, they just rock. I prepared a quad of 5998 for the GOTL but I have no idea when it will arrive. But when it will it will also have the "5998 optimization" switch so... let's hope T1s + 4x5998 will rock as expected. If not I'll try the 6x6BL7 or 6BX7 all praise but these are not easily found in Europe. Anyway, I was able to find some RCA 6BL7 in Germany, are these ok?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yesterday I think I did ear damage with the Verite and AC DC



You are thinking too much about tube rectifiers.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> Anyway, I was able to find some RCA 6BL7 in Germany, are these ok?



More than ok. I'm running with an assortments of Sylvania 6BL7 gt / gta.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> In the 70s I went to a deep purple concert and my ears rang for two days after woods. Yesterday I think I did ear damage with the Verite and AC DC .
> Got to have some self control but when the song is so good you have to crank it up.



I bet Malcomb's bass is killer!

I listen way too loud also....hard to lay off of your volume control


----------



## whirlwind

UsoppNoKami said:


> I went to a deep purple concert with family in the late 90s. They weren't really rocking hard anymore by then lol



Early stuff was fantastic, some great albums.


----------



## whirlwind

OK....you guys got me wanting to hear some Robert Plant

Greatest hits, killer 3 cd set


----------



## OctavianH

Deep Purple or not, the earth stops spinning at this song:



And the tubes make it justice.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright 'Highway Star' - Deep Purple on this combo. 

Siemens c3gs and 2 x Cetron 7236 + 2 x Tung Sol 5998.

Amazing !!!


----------



## UntilThen

I didn't know you are all rockers. Seriously bad company.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I look away for two seconds and there are three pages of classic rock posts, you guys are crazy.

Also, 36 guests viewing the thread, eBay bots or is the queue about to be 5 years longer?


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I look away for two seconds and there are three pages of classic rock posts, you guys are crazy.
> 
> Also, 36 guests viewing the thread, eBay bots or is the queue about to be 5 years longer?



I blame it on Verite and GOTL.

No I blame it on @whirlwind and @OctavianH and @UsoppNoKami


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Can't blame me on this thread, I don't have the amp yet haha


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> I would love to hear a comparison of the mids between LCD-3 and Verite
> I listen mostly blues/rock



a lot of ppl here has both. They should be able to fit your needs.


----------



## OctavianH

UntilThen said:


> I blame it on Verite and GOTL.
> 
> No I blame it on @whirlwind and @OctavianH and @UsoppNoKami



I don't have the amp, so its your fault mister


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I blame it on Verite and GOTL.
> 
> No I blame it on @whirlwind and @OctavianH and @UsoppNoKami




Innocent here....I am on the SS rig this morning.


----------



## UntilThen

Boost switch on now for Cetron 7236 and 5998. I can hear a slight difference. More intense.

c3g and quad 7236 would be great for Verite.


----------



## Monsterzero

Deyan said:


> You have to hold down the saver. The other option is to have a mechanism to screw it in. I'm working on a variant that can be tightened from the top without the need to open the amp.



Im very interested in these...get to protyping,please.



heliosphann said:


> Oh no, time to hit the "ignore member" button.



LOL



OctavianH said:


> Good, because I own 2 pairs of T1 second generation. If Verite is so good I'll keep in mind, I've seen they have some dealer in Germany so maybe I'll try them in my next trip there. 2nd iteration of T1 has more bass and less treble but excels in clarity and detail. Or at least this is how I see it. It has detachable cable and faux leather headband, which is a big downside since it starts to disintegrate after 2-3 years of usage. At the moment at my oldest T1.2 pair I mounted a T5p headband of real leather to be able to use them. All 4 are compatible and easily interchangable and since I have not used my T5p 1st gen during travels lately I decided to use it as spare parts for the T1s.



Verite has a much thicker and visceral sound. Nowhere near as bright. Way better bass. Way better mids. Not as diffused sounding as the T1. IMHO theyre in totally different leagues.



OctavianH said:


> Hmm, wondering how would sound this on Verite.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Love me some Saxon!!!!


----------



## Deyan

Monsterzero said:


> Im very interested in these...get to protyping,please.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well.... It's easy to make them for 50~60$ a piece. The real tricky part is to make them for 10~14 take out 5$ for shipping and still have something left over.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I'm pretty much done with socket savers unless I am doing frequent driver tube rolling.  I recently had one accept a tube in the wrong orientation (the center pin fit when it should not have) which broke the pin off a prized tube.  I'd rather replace a bad socket every few years if need be.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> These Mullard EL32 are the dark glass variety. I also have the same coke bottle shaped with clear glass and the straight glass. Have not done a comparison between these 3 version but these dark glass are just superb sounding. It could well be they are all superb sounding.


The Mullard EL32 straight glass can be had for cheap!  
Got a pair, and now waiting for my adapters...
UT - please report back after comparing the EL32 straight to the shouldered. Fingers crossed they sound the same.....  

Also, did you try 2 x GEC 6080 or do you always use them as a quad?
A quad is a very expensive config as you mentioned...


----------



## Zachik

Deyan said:


> Well.... It's easy to make them for 50~60$ a piece. The real tricky part is to make them for 10~14 take out 5$ for shipping and still have something left over.


Yeah - would get very expensive very fast if you need 7 (a driver plus 6 power sockets)... Are you going to prototype C3g socket savers as well?



L0rdGwyn said:


> I'm pretty much done with socket savers unless I am doing frequent driver tube rolling.  I recently had one accept a tube in the wrong orientation (the center pin fit when it should not have) which broke the pin off a prized tube.  I'd rather replace a bad socket every few years if need be.


I seriously doubt a good quality saver would accept a tube in wrong orientation...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Yeah - would get very expensive very fast if you need 7 (a driver plus 6 power sockets)... Are you going to prototype C3g socket savers as well?
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt a good quality saver would accept a tube in wrong orientation...



I completely agree.  Probably a freak occurrence, but I also like how the amp looks without them.  Not recommending others don't use them!  Just my preference.


----------



## Monsterzero

So,some tubes popped up today on eBay that I had a saved search for. This is the first time these have come up,and I cant remember why I saved the search(*im old,cut me some slack)
These are the non-dimple plates Tung Sol 6520.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283590581937?ul_noapp=true

Whats the deal with these? A glorified or upgraded 6AS7G? Or something else entirely?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 24, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> So,some tubes popped up today on eBay that I had a saved search for. This is the first time these have come up,and I cant remember why I saved the search(*im old,cut me some slack)
> These are the non-dimple plates Tung Sol 6520.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/283590581937?ul_noapp=true
> ...



It has been suggested that they are a "premium" version of the Tung-Sol/Chatham 6AS7G, but they are most definitely a 6AS7G.  I have read they sound identical, so they very likely are not worth that price.  It's a good tube, but $200 a pair is pretty steep.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> It has been suggested that they are a "premium" version of the Tung-Sol/Chatham 6AS7G, but they are most definitely a 6AS7G.  I have read they sound identical, so they very likely are not worth that price.  It's a good tube, but $200 a pair is pretty steep.



They’re identical in sound from what I can tell. The only difference is the extra support rod inside. Other than that I can’t the difference between a normal TS 6AS7G and the 6520.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> So,some tubes popped up today on eBay that I had a saved search for. This is the first time these have come up,and I cant remember why I saved the search(*im old,cut me some slack)
> These are the non-dimple plates Tung Sol 6520.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/283590581937?ul_noapp=true
> ...



They are an "improved" TS 6AS7G. However, the changes to improve reliability don't seem to affect the sound.

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/6/6520.pdf


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> Sylvania 6sn7w with quad GEC 6080 is insane on Whole Lotta Love. The amp's hot now and Verite is on fire but who cares. All you need is whole lot of love. I want a lot of love. Way down inside. You need ...... L  O  V  E.
> 
> Shake for me girl.... hahahahahahaha.



My second pair will be here soon. Can't wait!



UntilThen said:


> Time for some Tung Sol 5998. Verite needs Tung Sol.



Yes, I love the 5998's with the Verite!



UntilThen said:


> Alright 'Highway Star' - Deep Purple on this combo.
> 
> Siemens c3gs and 2 x Cetron 7236 + 2 x Tung Sol 5998.
> 
> Amazing !!!



Ooooh, I'll have to try that this week while I'm off.


----------



## whirlwind

Mullard EL37 has arrived.


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> They’re identical in sound from what I can tell. The only difference is the *extra support *rod inside.


Don't we all need the extra support?!


----------



## Zachik

heliosphann said:


> My second pair will be here soon. Can't wait!


Are the GEC 6080 really worth the $250 (or more) / pair price?


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Mullard EL37 has arrived.


Not in my compatibility table...  What adapter do you need for these?


----------



## attmci

heliosphann said:


> My second pair will be here soon. Can't wait!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


M is not here. So I dare to say that he need to replace all those sockets and some other stuff in one year...................Oh nooooooooo, he IS awakened......Need to run. LOL


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Verite has a much thicker and visceral sound. Nowhere near as bright. Way better bass. Way better mids. Not as diffused sounding as the T1. IMHO theyre in totally different leagues.



From my recollection of Beyer T1.1, I'd say you're pretty spot on with your assessment there. This also applies between HD800 and Verite, although I wouldn't say they are in totally different leagues in this comparison. They are certainly different. HD800 is still the details and soundstage width king but Verite is nearly there. 

For a purely listening enjoyment experience, there's no doubt I'd pick Verite... and that's the only reason I listen to music. I want to sit back and enjoy the music, to be captivated by the rich seductive vocals, the nice mid bass pump, with energy and vibrancy as intense as Utopia.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Not in my compatibility table...  What adapter do you need for these?




These are going to be for the GEL3N amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> The Mullard EL32 straight glass can be had for cheap!
> Got a pair, and now waiting for my adapters...
> UT - please report back after comparing the EL32 straight to the shouldered. Fingers crossed they sound the same.....
> 
> ...



Comparisons will come much later. I don't want to give an assessment based on a few minutes listen. However I have a few observations here.


I could have sworn that GOTL sounds better after it came back from the workshop. 
I LOVE EL32. Great sounding tubes. For my ears.
quad GEC 6080 is very good .... BUT.... here's the big BUT. It's as hot as the top of the Volcano. I suggest you have a fan directed at your amp when using it.
you don't really need quad GEC 6080 or quad 7236 / 5998. Just using a pair is pretty sufficient for me. I just have to turn up the volume to 12 noon or slightly more.
Here's another combo I really like with Verite.

Mullard EL32 with Cetron or Tung Sol 7236.


----------



## whirlwind

A pair of 6080 tubes can heat up a room just like the 6336
I know what you mean....its like I am burning twice as many really good power tubes than I need to be


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Comparisons will come much later. I don't want to give an assessment based on a few minutes listen. However I have a few observations here.
> 
> 
> I could have sworn that GOTL sounds better after it came back from the workshop.
> ...



All this talk of EL32s, I'm gonna throw mine in the ol' GOTL when I get off of work


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Oddly enough, my 7802 actually get cooler when you use them in a quad, drop from about 200C to 160C.  I'm gonna test this out with a quad 6080s, the only matched quad I have are Toshibas, guess I could mix and match!


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Oddly enough, my 7802 actually get cooler when you use them in a quad, drop from about 200C to 160C.



Hahaha that defies logic. There must be a gremlin in your quad 7802.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 24, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Hahaha that defies logic. There must be a gremlin in your quad 7802.



I know right? In my mind I am convincing myself "I have to do it, it will prolong their lives."

Oh and a nice side effect is they sound better


----------



## UntilThen

Four score and and seven years ago...  that's Lincoln's speech in 1864.

2 weeks before the Christmas of 2017, GOTL arrived at my doorstep and it's the best Christmas present ...... EVER.  That's my speech in 2019.

You know my excitement level yesterday when GOTL came back from the Factory is as great as when I first received GOTL in 2017. It's like I've got a new amp and the prospect of more tubes sampling today is lip smacking good. Nothing much else is going to get done today.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Four score and and seven years ago...  that's Lincoln's speech in 1864.
> 
> 2 weeks before the Christmas of 2017, GOTL arrived at my doorstep and it's the best Christmas present ...... EVER.  That's my speech in 2019.
> 
> You know my excitement level yesterday when GOTL came back from the Factory is as great as when I first received GOTL in 2017. It's like I've got a new amp and the prospect of more tubes sampling today is lip smacking good. Nothing much else is going to get done today.



Did they polish the front plate?  It looks so shiny.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Mullard EL37 has arrived.


Very nice. Those are quite rare - especially in that condition. I have a line on a pair that I might get next week. Looking forward to your thoughts on those.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 24, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Did they polish the front plate?  It looks so shiny.



On my invoice, it's stated that they treated the new sockets with contact oil. That must make the music more smooth. 

Here's list of parts replaced, none of it makes any sense to me except the silver in the ceramic sockets. I love silver.


Vishay high-performance axial capacitors
MKP bypassing capacitors
MKP suppression capacitors
Vishay precision mil-spec resistors
Silver plated ceramic sockets


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> you don't really need quad GEC 6080 or quad 7236 / 5998. Just using a pair is pretty sufficient for me.


hmmm...... I can get a NOS GEC 6080 pair for $200-250.... 
would it really sound so much better than my Philips or RCA 6080s?


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> hmmm...... I can get a NOS GEC 6080 pair for $200-250....
> would it really sound so much better than my Philips or RCA 6080s?



Personally, I like the GEC 6080 quite a bit more than the Philips (Mullard) or RCA. But as always, my ears and my gear. YMMV.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Personally, I like the GEC 6080 quite a bit more than the Philips (Mullard) or RCA. But as always, my ears and my gear. YMMV.



I’m in total agreement with you here.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Very nice. Those are quite rare - especially in that condition. I have a line on a pair that I might get next week. Looking forward to your thoughts on those.




I am looking forward to hearing them.


----------



## heliosphann

Zachik said:


> hmmm...... I can get a NOS GEC 6080 pair for $200-250....
> would it really sound so much better than my Philips or RCA 6080s?



I'd say yes. They're one of the best 6080's you can get. Actually just got a few pairs of RCA's in the mail today. I'll do a comparison this week.


----------



## Zachik

heliosphann said:


> I'd say yes. They're one of the best 6080's you can get. Actually just got a few pairs of RCA's in the mail today. I'll do a comparison this week.


Forgot that I also got NOS Brimar 6080s. Those were like $40-50 for a pair IIRC. 
That is my reason for conflicting over $250 for a pair that may or may not (to my ears) sound better... 
I am curious to hear your comparison of the RCAs to the GECs. 
The GOTL makes a lot of cheap tubes sounds really good! Always a dilemma to invest in those very expensive tubes to get (subjectively) tiny improvements.
(I know this whole hobby is kinda like that... Rule of diminishing returns)


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 24, 2019)

Revisiting GEC L63 now. Apart from some very faint noise, I really like the tone with 7236. I'm not sure if the noise is from the tubes or adapters but once the music starts, you don't hear it and the tone is very very very nice.

I think L63 / 6J5 as drivers with 6V6, EL34, etc as powers in a Glenn custom transformer coupled amp would be great ! Don't be surprised if I ditch Berlin for Xanadu. 

The problem with EL11 is the limited supply of NOS tubes and having a custom amp without a good supply of NOS tubes is like having a cake and you can't find the cream and the cherry !!!
Just before I make this post, I was really digging the new Siemens EL11 and 7236, Then all of a sudden, the left channel goes static with zzzzzzzzzzzz. I couldn't power off the amp fast enough. My first thought was don't destroy Verite. 

Now back with L63 and 7236, it's all good again. Sweet music.

So I don't know what happen to that new NOS gleaming pair of Siemens EL11.

GEC L63 and 7236



Siemens EL11 and 7236


----------



## UntilThen

Personally I prefer a KISS approach. Use a good quality driver and power tubes. No adapters if possible. This combo is ultra silent and ultra sweet sounding. In a moment of madness, I sold off the GEC 6as7g to Monster but I'm glad it make him happy.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Personally I prefer a KISS approach. Use a good quality driver and power tubes. No adapters if possible. This combo is ultra silent and ultra sweet sounding. In a moment of madness, I sold off the GEC 6as7g to Monster but I'm glad it make him happy.
> 
> 
> KISS approach is probably best chance for blackest back round over the long haul


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> Forgot that I also got NOS Brimar 6080s. Those were like $40-50 for a pair IIRC.
> That is my reason for conflicting over $250 for a pair that may or may not (to my ears) sound better...
> I am curious to hear your comparison of the RCAs to the GECs.
> The GOTL makes a lot of cheap tubes sounds really good! Always a dilemma to invest in those very expensive tubes to get (subjectively) tiny improvements.
> (I know this whole hobby is kinda like that... Rule of diminishing returns)



To the best of my knowledge, Brimar never made the 6080. So the question is, Which company made your Brimars?


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Forgot that I also got NOS Brimar 6080s. Those were like $40-50 for a pair IIRC.
> That is my reason for conflicting over $250 for a pair that may or may not (to my ears) sound better...
> I am curious to hear your comparison of the RCAs to the GECs.
> The GOTL makes a lot of cheap tubes sounds really good! Always a dilemma to invest in those very expensive tubes to get (subjectively) tiny improvements.
> (I know this whole hobby is kinda like that... Rule of diminishing returns)



I am now using Brimar 6080s after losing a GEC 6AS7. So far really liking them so much so I am not pursuing to get another GEC.
I can live with these for now at least until craziness takes over.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Personally I prefer a KISS approach. Use a good quality driver and power tubes. No adapters if possible. This combo is ultra silent and ultra sweet sounding. In a moment of madness, I sold off the GEC 6as7g to Monster but I'm glad it make him happy.



Usually the less adapters means the less hum & noise.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I am now using Brimar 6080s after losing a GEC 6AS7. So far really liking them so much so I am not pursuing to get another GEC.
> I can live with these for now at least until craziness takes over.




Do you have any Bendix 6080 tubes ?

I love these, with all of my Mullard drivers...they sound great with many different drivers with my Atticus


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Revisiting GEC L63 now. Apart from some very faint noise, I really like the tone with 7236. I'm not sure if the noise is from the tubes or adapters but once the music starts, you don't hear it and the tone is very very very nice.
> 
> I think L63 / 6J5 as drivers with 6V6, EL34, etc as powers in a Glenn custom transformer coupled amp would be great ! Don't be surprised if I ditch Berlin for Xanadu.
> 
> ...



By the way UT, how do the L63s sound compare a single B65?


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> By the way UT, how do the L63s sound compare a single B65?



I'm just about to do that next. Just came out of the shower and the ears are washed. I can hear everything now.


----------



## Monsterzero

Yeah,I like the Bendix. Crazy staging and bass. Stavros has a pair for sale in the classifieds.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Don't be surprised if I ditch Berlin for Xanadu.


Did you get Glenn's permission for all those amp names?! You can't just come up with a name and make is so...


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> To the best of my knowledge, Brimar never made the 6080. So the question is, Which company made your Brimars?


I have no idea! I will look for them later and see if there is ANY identifying marks or hints on them...


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> I am now using Brimar 6080s after losing a GEC 6AS7. So far *really liking them* so much so I am not pursuing to get another GEC.
> I can live with these for now at least until craziness takes over.


Glenn - this is the "problem" with your OTL... To MY ears, almost anything I am throwing at it - I am really liking!!!  
(thus my dilemma: will I have a light bulb moment with the GEC 6080 / TS 5998 or any other really pricey tube?!?!)


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Glenn - this is the "problem" with your OTL... To MY ears, almost anything I am throwing at it - I am really liking!!!
> (thus my dilemma: will I have a light bulb moment with the GEC 6080 / TS 5998 or any other really pricey tube?!?!)



I built the amp so it sounds good with cheep tubes.
Then I got away from my own rule of thumb and bought expensive tubes only to have one burn out.
I would say if you like how it sounds now save your money. Spend hundreds only to get it to sound a little better nuts.
Right now I am perfectly happy with the GEC L63 drivers and Brimar 6080s.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,I like the Bendix. Crazy staging and bass. Stavros has a pair for sale in the classifieds.


*How do the Bendix 6080 compare to the GEC 6080 ?*
Price-wise they're almost the same!
I might buy 1 pair in a moment of weakness... but definitely won't buy both...


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> *How do the Bendix 6080 compare to the GEC 6080 ?*
> Price-wise they're almost the same!
> I might buy 1 pair in a moment of weakness... but definitely won't buy both...



I have never heard the GEC 6080. I have the GEC 6AS7G. Different sounds for sure between the GEC and Bendix,but how close the 6080 is to the 6AS7G,I have no idea. Perhaps someone who has both the GECs can answer better than I.


----------



## heliosphann

Zachik said:


> *How do the Bendix 6080 compare to the GEC 6080 ?*
> Price-wise they're almost the same!
> I might buy 1 pair in a moment of weakness... but definitely won't buy both...



I've got both. I'll add it to the compare list.


----------



## DecentLevi

UntilThen said:


> This EL32 with 6BL7s combination is so good I'm going to leave it a bit longer. The bass slam is a trade mark of the GOTL especially when paired with Verite. Bass slam along with dynamics, clarity, details. This tube combination is so good I'm giving it a score of 9 / 10.


I've also had wonderful results with similar pairings such as quad 6BL7 with EL32 or EL11 - on a specially adapted Euforia amp. Interesting their synergy carries over from one amp to another.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 24, 2019)

As I'm getting my final request squared away for the GEL11 amp, I realised that rather than it having 4x output with 1x rectifier, it's 2x output, 2x drivers and 1x rectifier - if I'm not mistaken?

If so, this opens up much potential for proven combinations on other amps such as EL3N or EL11 drivers with EL34, EL12 Spez or EL39 as output tubes. Or is it more recommended to have both driver and output powers the same tube type on this amp?

Also would anybody here say there's merit to the concept of having 4x output tubes with 2x driver tubes? Or perhaps the other way around but from my experience an amp can sound better with double the power tubes. This way I could roll 2 or 4 output tubes according to the results. Any ideas on if there would be any sonic advantage to having double the output tubes, or if it would raise any compatibility issues?

Thanks!!


----------



## UntilThen

Sorry DL, I haven't gotten back to you but things just got rather busy here.


----------



## heliosphann (Aug 24, 2019)

Going to listen to sad music after hearing this batshit news about Andrew Luck.

Now I just have to figure out which tubes to roll in to give the extra feels.


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Going to listen to sad music



I'm going to listen to some sad music because I don't know which amp to listen to now.


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> I'm going to listen to some sad music because I don't know which amp to listen to now.



I have that problem too. You can't even see my Liquid Crimson...


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> I have that problem too. You can't even see my Liquid Crimson...



Ok I envy you. You have my DNA Stratus !!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> Going to listen to sad music after hearing this bat**** news about Andrew Luck.
> 
> Now I just have to figure out which tubes to roll in to give the extra feels.



Whaaaaaaaaaaat!!!

I'm sorry man, that is rough.  Guy probably just tired of getting banged up and being disappointed from not playing.

Us Browns fans will take you for a season if you wanna join the ranks.


----------



## DecentLevi

Zachik said:


> *How do the Bendix 6080 compare to the GEC 6080 ?*
> Price-wise they're almost the same!
> I might buy 1 pair in a moment of weakness... but definitely won't buy both...


Just the right one to ask here. I've owned both for around 2 years, and by chance just now happened to switch the Bendix 6080 for GEC 6080. I would describe the Bendix as more robust bass with good heft / weight, very well refined and extended. And the GEC 6080 somewhat more bright / sparkly and sweet toned, but without being lush; slightly less bass and more upper detail, but without losing any bass definition. note - that was the results based on the Bendix slotted graphite plate tube, as tested on my Elise and Euforia amp which may differ on a Glenn amp. For my dark-ish HD 380 I'd probably go with the GECs and for either a bright recording or bright headphone I'd probably go for the Bendix 6080.




UntilThen said:


> I'm going to listen to some sad music because I don't know which amp to listen to now.


GOOD GODDD, MATT! YOU'VE GONE NUTS.  I feel sorry for your wallet and honestly start to wonder if you can pay all your bills after this much hi-fi spending lately. Also I hope I'm not to blame for leaning you more towards the Alo Audio Studio Six from my recent mention by PM about them having the best bass I've ever heard when paired with a (modded) HE-6 that I tried a while back. For me though I'm still set on the GEL11, or Project X as you may call it.


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> Going to listen to sad music after hearing this bat**** news about Andrew Luck.
> 
> Now I just have to figure out which tubes to roll in to give the extra feels.




Just heard this....stunning.


----------



## heliosphann

I don't mind him retiring. But, couldn't he have made such a big decision in the off season.

Ugh.

I hate "Dust in the Wind", but I'm listening to it now...


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> Ok I envy you. You have my DNA Stratus !!!



Stratus is great, but it's hard to beat the GOTL for it's value and tube rolling capabilities.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright 30 secs appraisal which means jacks.

Now listen carefully to what I say. This is 30 secs of each amp with Verite.

I did not know how good GOTL is until now. I mean I know that the OTL is good but I have no means of comparison with another equally capable amp (in this case the Studio Six) until now.

The first 30 secs with each amp and Verite and my fav tune. It's neck and neck in terms of bass slam. Don't get me wrong these amps don't just do bass slam well. It's the whole package. So if you've got the GOTL you want to hold on to it for your future generations. Btw the Studio Six is just as amazing. Those reviewers weren't smoking dope.

Now to go back and listen some more. I might change my mind.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> I don't mind him retiring. But, couldn't he have made such a big decision in the off season.
> 
> Ugh.
> 
> I hate "Dust in the Wind", but I'm listening to it now...



Im right there with you when DeMarcus Cousins tore his left ACL last week,after tearing his left quad in the playoofs last season,after he tore his left Achilles....Dude cant catch a break,and either can my Lakers.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> I feel sorry for your wallet and honestly start to wonder if you can pay all your bills after this much hi-fi spending lately.



It's ok DL. I don't buy anything I can't afford.


----------



## pippen99

heliosphann said:


> I don't mind him retiring. But, couldn't he have made such a big decision in the off season.
> 
> Ugh.
> 
> I hate "Dust in the Wind", but I'm listening to it now...



You must be depressed!  "Dust in the Wind" is the 2nd most boring song ever recorded only surpassed by Chicago's "Color My World".  Get some help


----------



## Phantaminum

heliosphann said:


> I have that problem too. You can't even see my Liquid Crimson...



Right, it’s because it’s being packed up to be sold to me.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Im right there with you when DeMarcus Cousins tore his left ACL last week,after tearing his left quad in the playoofs last season,after he tore his left Achilles....Dude cant catch a break,and either can my Lakers.



Yea. It's frustrating. Unfortunately the fan base is gonna be pissed, especially after getting back to winning last season. Apparently they booed him as he walked off the field


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Right, it’s because it’s being packed up to be sold to me.



Damn dude,between you,Helio and UT there wont be any amps left for people to buy. You guys are making me feel less guilty about my Lampi DAC.


----------



## UntilThen

GOTL is using GEC B36 and a pair of Cetron 7236 and Studio Six is equipped with stock tubes. If I'm being honest with myself, I'd have to admit that GOTL has a better tone to my ears.

Going to switch the driver and rectifier and the 6v6 in the Studio Six in a minute.


----------



## Monsterzero

pippen99 said:


> You must be depressed!  "Dust in the Wind" is the 2nd most boring song ever recorded only surpassed by Chicago's "Color My World".  Get some help


 Whoa!!! I dig both of those tunes.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Damn dude,between you,Helio and UT there wont be any amps left for people to buy. You guys are making me feel less guilty about my Lampi DAC.



We will sell you our amps for Christmas.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> We will sell you our amps for Christmas.


Im content with the GOTL. I no longer own any planars,and much prefer dynamic headphones,especially ZMFs,so im good....until Zach releases his own planar. Hit me up then.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Also I hope I'm not to blame for leaning you more towards the Alo Audio Studio Six



Definitely not you. When I saw the classified I read up all about the Studio Six and I'm astonished at the number of good reviews.

Here's why I bought it. The seller had it for 11 months and it's still as good as new. I got it for 60% of the new price. The seller has gone back to stereo and his speakers. Whilst there I saw his HiFi equipment. This guys is really serious about his music and a really nice guy to talk to.


----------



## Phantaminum (Aug 24, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Damn dude,between you,Helio and UT there wont be any amps left for people to buy. You guys are making me feel less guilty about my Lampi DAC.



Lol, the wife was looking at my audio rack all crazy about a week ago. “What’s all this for?” “Can’t you just use one amp for your headphones?”

I gasped and told her I have an amp for different headphones. While I was explaining she rolled her eyes and walked away.

Now let’s see what she says on Monday when I set up two new amps.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Lol, the wife was looking at my audio rack all crazy about a week ago. “What’s all this for?” “Can’t you just use one amp for your headphones?”
> 
> I gasped and told her I have an amp for different headphones. While I was explaining she rolled her eyes and walked away.
> 
> Now let’s see what she says on Monday when I set up two new amps.


Whenever my wife gives me grief I simply tell her "Hey,its better than hookers and blow"...She has no comeback for that one.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Whenever my wife gives me grief I simply tell her "Hey,its better than hookers and blow"...She has no comeback for that one.



You're right. I have no vices. Don't smoke, don't drink, don't womanise but I'm just plain crazy about Head-Fi now.


----------



## UntilThen

Change of tubes. I knew I bought the Fivre 6V6g and Mullard GZ34 for a reason. 

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base in the driver slot. This is very very good.


----------



## mordy

You don't need expensive tubes to get great sound. Here is the Brimar 6080:




https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-For...961547?hash=item28809552cb:g:NhUAAOSwEEVdIIKP
$64 for a pair shipped.
The Brimar tubes were made by Sylvania:




This pair is Buy it now for $26 shipped, but if you shop carefully they can be found for much less.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Damn dude,between you,Helio and UT there wont be any amps left for people to buy. You guys are making me feel less guilty about my Lampi DAC.


Who are you kidding Monster? There is *nothing* that should make you feel less guilty about the Lampi!!


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> You don't need expensive tubes to get great sound. Here is the Brimar 6080:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Photo of MY Brimar:


----------



## UntilThen

GOTL with GEC B36 and 6 x Sylvania 6BL7s more than hold it's own. This is the tone I like. Dynamic, crystal clear and forceful. So good with the Verite.

The socket savers are off. I don't intend to roll anymore.

After an hour with both amps, the bottom line is they are both great sounding amps. I could live with either or both. GOTL is not as quiet. Studio Six is amazingly quiet and the sockets are Teflon. Looks like Yamamoto's quality. The amp is just so solidly build. I could plug in all 3 of my headphones and there's no drop in quality of tone.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> The socket savers are off. I don't intend to roll anymore.



You forgot:
"For at least the next eight minutes"


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> You forgot:
> "For at least the next eight minutes"



Hahaha or until the next rock song comes on.


----------



## UntilThen

The problem is there is no space now for the 2 giant Sansui amps.


----------



## UntilThen

Wait a minute I just heard the Studio Six waking up from it's sleep. The bass is on another dimension now. I just remember the seller telling me that he has not more than 50 hours on the amp. Damn not even burn in. Now the burn in cycle starts again. Verite is not even burn in yet !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Alright DL, I better reply to your questions and I'll do it here for the benefits of others.

Firstly what's Berlin. That's the name I gave to the custom GEL11 amp.
It will have a pair of EL11 for drivers. One for each channel. Similar to what you see in the GEL3N amp.

The back power tubes will be another pair of EL11, with the option to use EL12, EL12N or EL12spez with adapter (the last I don't know if possible - you have to check with Glenn)

A variation of this is to customised EL12 spez for the power tubes instead. SO you have cable coming out the the transformers to cap the top anode of the EL12 spez. It will be customised so no adapter required. For this variation, You will have EL11s in front and EL12 spez behind. There will be a tube rectifier socket. 


Now Xanadu (What do I call it Xanadu but it needs a name)
This will use 2 x L63 or 6J5 tubes as drivers. The power tubes will cater for the octal sockets - EL34, 6V6, 6L6, 5881, EL35, EL37, EL38/39 with adapters. This is the concept. Nothing concrete yet. @leftside has more ideas. This is his baby.

If you don't like any of the 2 above, there is always the GEL3N.

..... the mighty and roll all you want GOTL.

Now your question as to whether it's beneficial to use 4 x EL12 spez in the power slots for headphones. Omg, I really don't think you need 4 of those unless you want to have speakers out. 2 x EL11 in front and 2 x EL12 behind and you have almighty amp. I mean look at the Studio Six. It has only 2 power tubes  (6V6) and it can drive 4 Verites simultaneously without dropping a sweat. Drives even a HE6. So there you go. 2 is enough. Talk to Glenn. He will know what's best.


----------



## UntilThen

Now I need some listening time. Not in an analytical way. It's the weekend and it should be relaxing. Guess I feel very fortunate all these toys arriving one week before Father's day. 

Those 2 amps and the 3 headphones. More than enough to rock my boat. God help me if I start to roll DACs. Fortunately I don't feel the need to do that because IMHO, Yggdrasil suits me to a T.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> God help me if I start to roll DACs. Fortunately I don't feel the need to do that because IMHO, Yggdrasil suits me to a T.


Guess you should not discuss with Monster and his Lampi...


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Guess you should not discuss with Monster and his Lampi...



We're all different. It's interesting to see others with different gear. If we all had the same gear, it wouldn't be as interesting.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> How do the Bendix 6080 compare to the GEC 6080 ?



I can answer that because I have both. Bendix has a darker, warmer tone and the bass weight and soundstage is class leading. GEC 6080 on the other hand is the other extreme. It's clear, refined and the bass is not as pronounced. Being one who appreciates clarity and details more, I prefer the GEC. For someone who prefers blues and crave a warmer and stronger bass presence, the Bendix is your choice.

Ultimately you have to look at your other partnering tubes and gear and of course your preference.


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Stratus is great, but it's hard to beat the GOTL for it's value and tube rolling capabilities.



Couldn't agree more.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Lol, the wife was looking at my audio rack all crazy about a week ago. “What’s all this for?” “Can’t you just use one amp for your headphones?”
> 
> I gasped and told her I have an amp for different headphones. While I was explaining she rolled her eyes and walked away.
> 
> Now let’s see what she says on Monday when I set up two new amps.



Happy days for you. That Apex Teton is a heavy weight. You must be very excited.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Happy days for you. That Apex Teton is a heavy weight. You must be very excited.



Yeahs it’s going to be fun. I still can’t believe the amp new costs what it does.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok Phanta, I managed to spend some time comparing GEC B36 and dual GEC L63 in the GOTL. Both with Sylvania 6 x 6BL7. Using Verite.

The good news is that they are very identical sounding. Lovely tone from these tubes.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> I can answer that because I have both. Bendix has a darker, warmer tone and the bass weight and soundstage is class leading. GEC 6080 on the other hand is the other extreme. It's clear, refined and the bass is not as pronounced. Being one who appreciates clarity and details more, I prefer the GEC. For someone who prefers blues and crave a warmer and stronger bass presence, the Bendix is your choice.
> 
> Ultimately you have to look at your other partnering tubes and gear and of course your preference.


Which do you think is more suited for Rock and Metal music (and for someone who likes mid-bass north of neutral)?


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Which do you think is more suited for Rock and Metal music (and for someone who likes mid-bass north of neutral)?



Again depends on your preference. If it's me, I would prefer Bendix for Rock and Metal. However Bendix mid-bass is not slightly bright. As I said, it's warm.


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Which do you think is more suited for Rock and Metal music (and for someone who likes mid-bass north of neutral)?


Bendix...For sure. It slams real hard.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Bendix...For sure. *It slams real hard*.



That too. Rockers are slammers so you need tubes that slam. Remember when the bass drops.... you stop breathing for a sec.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm going to pick up a pair of Brimar and RCA 6V6gt from the seller now. The weekend never ends.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Bendix has a darker, warmer tone and the bass weight and soundstage is class leading.





Monsterzero said:


> Bendix...For sure. It slams real hard.





UntilThen said:


> That too. Rockers are slammers so you need tubes that slam. Remember when the bass drops.... you stop breathing for a sec.



Sigh. OK - gotta find a good pair that won't break the bank...

I know that might not exist!


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Sigh. OK - gotta find a good pair that won't break the bank...
> 
> I know that might not exist!



Ok I should tell you that the Bendix sound like crap. That will save your money.


----------



## UntilThen

I couldn't have met a nicer person today. First he sells me the amp cheap. Next he sells me these very nice looking Brimar and RCA 6v6gt tubes cheap.


 

and in the amp


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 25, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Last combo for tonight.
> 
> (...)
> 
> Well the first day that GOTL came back to me has brought me a lot of joy. With such a classic variety of tones, *I don't feel the urge to buy Studio Six anymore.* I haven't heard that so I wouldn't know how good it is but this I know. I have heard and sampled GOTL with my headphones and DAC. It will remain in my hall of fame because it's worthy of a TOTL tube amp status.


Way to stick to your guns, HaHa.



Zachik said:


> The Mullard EL32 straight glass can be had for cheap!
> Got a pair, and now waiting for my adapters...
> UT - please report back after comparing the EL32 straight to the shouldered. Fingers crossed they sound the same.....
> 
> ...


I've owned both ST and straight EL32's for about a year, and after long burn-in and testing I definitely say the ST (curved) EL32's sound much more organic / natural and better soundstage, while the straight EL32s are modestly darker with better PRaT, so better for more rhythmic focused music like disco, pop and electronic. Of the two straight EL32 brands I would say the Mullard are modestly more organic (but not as much as the ST version), but the Marconi are modestly darker and 'buttery' and winning on the PRaT (pace, rhythm and timing)
  Though YMMV on the Glenn amps


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Way to stick to your guns, HaHa.



That statement was made on Sat. Sunday is another story. I'm glad I bought that the Studio Six. It's an incredible deal and the amp sound so good now with the Brimar 6V6gt.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Bendix...For sure. It slams real hard.



Agreed. Bendix has some serious bass but still has great instrument separation. Slams real nice while the GEC 6080 is much more neutral.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 25, 2019)

I'm glad I prefer the 6BX7 / 6BL7. So you can have the Bendix, GEC, Tung Sol and leave me the sixes. 

Verite on this ECC33 and 6BL7s is journey's end for me on tube rolling in the GOTL.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 25, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Alright DL, I better reply to your questions and I'll do it here for the benefits of others.
> 
> Firstly what's Berlin. That's the name I gave to the custom GEL11 amp.
> It will have a pair of EL11 for drivers. One for each channel. Similar to what you see in the GEL3N amp.
> ...



Thanks SO much for your input Matt. Now I seem to possibly be caught in a dilemma. I was under the impression the amp would be compatible with all of the below, and what sold me was especially its' ability to let me choose between EL38, 39, EL3N and EL34. I thought that the difference between the GEL3N and GEL11 amp was just different sockets, and was attracted more toward the GEL11 due to not having side-contacts. So would anyone know if there's any difference between the two amps besides sockets, like perhaps a different driver voltage/current? And I especially want to know if all the below would be compatible on any available amp, given the use of adapters. @Deyan you may know. All of the above are interchangeable on my F-A amp with the exception of EL34. Perhaps if these aren't compatible I can request a custom amp that can be, at least for the above as well as KT66.

As for the EL12 Spez and EL39 anode cap connected directly to the transformer; I think I would just go with an adapter so I don't always have them dangling around when other tubes are in use - unless there's any sonic advantage of the direct connection. @2359glenn you may know this one.

As for having 4x power tubes, I have experienced in multiple amps a sort of phenomenom where 4-6 can yield better resolution / dynamics / soundstage etc. than 2. And yup I also want to use this for speakers at some point, with a 32 to 8ohm output impedance knob. Certainly it could be different in the case of a GEL11 or GEL3N amp with its' strong power and top brand output transformer however. What about @whirlwind and @Monsterzero do you have a second opinion? Glenn must know about this one too, and ultimately it's up to him if he would be able to fit it into a reasonable size chasis and if it works with the circuit.

I already have 6x EL11, 6x EL12, 6x EL3N and 2x EL39 and love them so hope for an amp that can suit them well, among others.

Here is the list of compatible tube types I compiled recently from this thread, however I'm not exactly sure which amp this applied to, and some of these should likely be drivers not powers.

6K6G
6V6G
6L6G/5881
6F6G/KT63
KT77
EL11
EL12
EL12 Spez
EL32
EL33
EL34
EL35
EL37
EL38
EL39
KT66
KT63
6M6

_+ EL3N?_


----------



## attmci (Aug 25, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,I like the Bendix. Crazy staging and bass. Stavros has a pair for sale in the classifieds.


Well, I love Bendix too due to the punch of bass. But any to my ears with my equipment.

I bet the Brimar 6080 is a Mullard.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 25, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Sigh. OK - gotta find a good pair that won't break the bank...
> 
> I know that might not exist!



If you keep your eyes peeled, you can get pairs for good prices.  I paid $150 for my NOS pair, probably the bottom end of what you could find.  $200 is more of the going rate for a true matched pair, and a lot of sellers are trying to charge more.



Edit: never mind on the original listing I posted, construction is different even if the plates are the same, that's why they haven't sold....

Stavros is selling a pair of solid plates in the classifieds:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-bendix-6080wb-pair-solid-plates.913122/

Your other option is to look for a pair of Tung-Sol/Chatham 6080WB graphite plates, which are thought to be Bendix-made relabels, although I'm not certain it has been confirmed, anyone?  They sound more or less the same to my ears.

 

About to put this quad in my amp and see if it melts - erm, I mean, sounds good.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks SO much for your input Matt. Now I seem to possibly be caught in a dilemma. I was under the impression the amp would be compatible with all of the below, and what sold me was especially its' ability to let me choose between EL38, 39, EL3N and EL34. I thought that the difference between the GEL3N and GEL11 amp was just different sockets, and was attracted more toward the GEL11 due to not having side-contacts. So would anyone know if there's any difference between the two amps besides sockets, like perhaps a different driver voltage/current? And I especially want to know if all the below would be compatible on any available amp, given the use of adapters. @Deyan you may know. All of the above are interchangeable on my F-A amp with the exception of EL34. Perhaps if these aren't compatible I can request a custom amp that can be, at least for the above as well as KT66.
> 
> As for the EL12 Spez and EL39 anode cap connected directly to the transformer; I think I would just go with an adapter so I don't always have them dangling around when other tubes are in use - unless there's any sonic advantage of the direct connection. @2359glenn you may know this one.
> 
> ...



DL
I think it would be best to use Octal sockets.  Two 6J5 drivers and two or four EL34 outputs.
Adapters for all these tubes can be made from octal sockets rather then from some oddball socket.
It is up to you.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Which do you think is more suited for Rock and Metal music (and for someone who likes mid-bass north of neutral)?



Bendix


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Well, I love Bendix too due to the punch of bass. But any to my ears with my equipment.
> 
> I bet the Brimar 6080 is a Mullard.


The Brimar says FOREIGN on it, which means that it was not made in the UK. I have seen others that clearly state USA. 
The tubes with a gray bottom for sure are Sylvanias- could be that there are Sylvanias with black bottoms as well.


Re the Bendix 6080 I believe that all the graphite plate tubes were made by them, 
Including those labeled RCA, TS and Chatham (there may be other rebrands).

You have to sift through these brands to find graphite plates at sometimes great prices.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Bendix


Instead of using a single pair of 6080 I have found that it is possible to have two pairs of different brands and sound signatures complementing each other.
Have been using a pair of Bendix RCA rebrand and early RCA with very good results.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I couldn't have met a nicer person today. First he sells me the amp cheap. Next he sells me these very nice looking Brimar and RCA 6v6gt tubes cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> and in the amp




You have a real special amp right there.....congrats are in order.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Joe. It’s been an eventful weekend I’d say. I’m just overjoyed that I have 2 tube amps now where last week I had none.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 25, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Thanks Joe. It’s been an eventful weekend I’d say. I’m just overjoyed that I have 2 tube amps now where last week I had none.




You can use all of your 6SN7 in both amps....very nice.
You ever think about getting rid of it...you know where to find me 
Would love to sample a few different planar cans out of this amp

Those output trannies will put out 20 watts....too bad they don't do a lower power version
I would think it would be pretty popular and a tad more affordable.

I love the old skool look also....for some reason I dont like silver shiney things....LOL


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 25, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I'm glad I prefer the 6BX7 / 6BL7. So you can have the Bendix, GEC, Tung Sol and leave me the sixes.
> 
> Verite on this ECC33 and 6BL7s is journey's end for me on tube rolling in the GOTL.






L0rdGwyn said:


> If you keep your eyes peeled, you can get pairs for good prices.  I paid $150 for my NOS pair, probably the bottom end of what you could find.  $200 is more of the going rate for a true matched pair, and a lot of sellers are trying to charge more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







Ha.  They will be hot.   They have been my go to tubes for my Atticus for awhile now.

Atticus with Bendix and the ECC33 that @UntilThen mention's above.....killer slam, yet so tight and clean sounding, back round is black. The Atticus is a super fun headphone. Very musical.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 25, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Ha.  They will be hot.   They have been my go to tubes for my Atticus for awhile now.
> 
> Atticus with Bendix and the ECC33 that @UntilThen mentiones above.....killer slam, yet so tight and clean sounding
> the Atticus is a super fun headphone. Very musical.



Maybe I will pair them up with my Atticus and ECC32 later, not sure I have yet, thanks 

Joe, how do you like the Goldpoint stepped attenuator on your GOTL?  Do you feel the 47 steps is adequate for high-gain tubes?  I end up spending 90% of the time below 9 o' clock with the Alps pot.  I'm thinking of adding one, just want to be sure before I do that there are enough steps down there to satisfy.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Maybe I will pair them up with my Atticus and ECC32 later, not sure I have yet, thanks
> 
> Joe, how do you like the Goldpoint stepped attenuator on your GOTL?  Do you feel the 47 steps is adequate for high-gain tubes?  I end up spending 90% of the time below 9 o' clock with the Alps pot.  I'm thinking of adding one, just want to be sure before I do that there are enough steps down there to satisfy.




I like it, mine is only 24 steps though...feels very rugged, Glenn uses nice ones.
The GEL3N has just regular pot and I like it also.
I guess getting it eliminates channel imbalance, but I have never come across any problems.

I am at 11:00 o'clock at the moment with the Bendix and Mullard ECC33....but it is pretty loud.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> The Brimar says FOREIGN on it, which means that it was not made in the UK. I have seen others that clearly state USA.
> The tubes with a gray bottom for sure are Sylvanias- could be that there are Sylvanias with black bottoms as well.
> 
> 
> ...


Mordy, you are right. I was thinking of these
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-60...-plates-tubes-rebranded-Philips-/261387354902


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 25, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> I like it, mine is only 24 steps though...feels very rugged, Glenn uses nice ones.
> The GEL3N has just regular pot and I like it also.
> I guess getting it eliminates channel imbalance, but I have never come across any problems.
> 
> I am at 11:00 o'clock at the moment with the Bendix and Mullard ECC33....but it is pretty loud.



Thanks, that helps a lot.  I think I will do it, just need to do some planning...might do the caps as well, but we'll see, need to run the details by Glenn.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Ok I should tell you that the Bendix sound like crap. That will save your money.


Too late for that... 



DecentLevi said:


> I've owned both ST and straight EL32's for about a year, and after long burn-in and testing I definitely say the ST (curved) EL32's sound much more organic / natural and better soundstage, while the straight EL32s are modestly darker with better PRaT, so better for more rhythmic focused music like disco, pop and electronic. Of the two straight EL32 brands I would say the Mullard are modestly more organic (but not as much as the ST version), but the Marconi are modestly darker and 'buttery' and winning on the PRaT (pace, rhythm and timing)


Thanks. Will keep an eye for a good priced pair, but might need to focus on getting a Bendix 6080 pair first...



Phantaminum said:


> Agreed. Bendix has some serious bass but still has great instrument separation. Slams real nice while the GEC 6080 is much more neutral.


Sounds like for my taste - the Bendix would be better fit. A shame since GEC seems a little bit cheaper and easier to come by.



UntilThen said:


> I'm glad I prefer the 6BX7 / 6BL7. So you can have the Bendix, GEC, Tung Sol and leave me the sixes.


I see what you're doing Matt... I am guessing that next you'll PM me that you have a great pair of Bendix that you do not use much, and for the right amount you might be convinced to sell??


----------



## whirlwind

Bendix for more weight and GEC for more detail

Both are fantastic tubes....I prefer the GEC 6AS7G to the GEC 6080, but both are very very good.
As always YMMV


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Stavros is selling a pair of solid plates in the classifieds:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-bendix-6080wb-pair-solid-plates.913122/





Zachik said:


> Thanks. Will keep an eye for a good priced pair, but might need to focus on getting a Bendix 6080 pair first...



While not "cheap" i think you should consider grabbing that pair from Stavros. You wont find a better guy to deal with. 
I was looking for an inexpensive pair,and only one came up under $200.00,and at the time I was broke,so someone here( @Phantaminum  maybe?) grabbed them. Most of the other pairs Ive seen can go for over 300.00 or more,and you dont know whom youre buying from.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 25, 2019)

6N7GT shootout:

Cheers all, been away on a 2 week Popup camper, camping trip.  Camped Wyoming, Yellowstone National Park (NP for short), Montana, Glacier NP (northern Montana on the Border with Canada), Idaho, Utah, at the Dinosaur National Monument and Colorado, at Black Canyon of the Gunnison NP.  Suffice to say I had a wonderful and relaxing adventure, many fine outdoor scenic photos were made, we logged 3,287 miles in the 15 day/14 nights....

While away, Mordy sent his NU 6N7GT for me to compare with my Visseaux 6N7GT that I am very happy with.

My listening observation is that the two brands sound very similar (and built similar with black round plates and identical bottom mica's) but I do hear more air/space/clarity in the midrange via the NU.  It is enough of a difference to say that I do think (for me) the NU version wins.  It's not night and day, but, "better enough" in those mids that I can say the NU wins and is a fantastic driver for the GOTL with SS rectifiers. 

I used both a pair of Mullard 6080's and a pair of 6H13C as powers (not both sets together) and this works best in my amp for a 6N7 as driver.  Slight HUM is heard when I use any powers with greater than a 2x MU.

After hearing the NU, was able to obtain a brand new NU 6N7GT for $23.00 shipped, on that famous auction site, so it is also a bargain tube.

Happiness to all, and good listening!!


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> 6N7GT shootout:
> 
> Cheers all, been away on a 2 week Popup camper, camping trip.  Camped Wyoming, Yellowstone National Park (NP for short), Montana, Glacier NP (northern Montana on the Border with Canada), Idaho, Utah, at the Dinosaur National Monument and Colorado, at Black Canyon of the Gunnison NP.  Suffice to say I had a wonderful and relaxing adventure, many fine outdoor scenic photos were made, we logged 3,287 miles in the 15 day/14 nights....
> 
> ...





Nice trip.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Gacier NP sunrise:


----------



## rnros (Aug 25, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> 6N7GT shootout:
> 
> Cheers all, been away on a 2 week Popup camper, camping trip.  Camped Wyoming, Yellowstone National Park (NP for short), Montana, Glacier NP (northern Montana on the Border with Canada), Idaho, Utah, at the Dinosaur National Monument and Colorado, at Black Canyon of the Gunnison NP.  Suffice to say I had a wonderful and relaxing adventure, many fine outdoor scenic photos were made, we logged 3,287 miles in the 15 day/14 nights....
> 
> ...



Hi JV, fantastic trip, we did something similar a number of years ago, but we had a more leisurely schedule, 3200 miles in 30 days. LOL At the time I thought that was intense!

We were able to also include NPs in AZ, NM, CA, OR, and WA, maybe more. Did it with a van and tents, van was a new custom rental, so that was comfortable and easy for driving those distances. Towing a pop-up is a little more difficult for those distances, so I'm impressed.

Thanks for the comparison notes on the 6N7GTs. Great family of tubes for the GOTL.


----------



## rnros

JazzVinyl said:


> Gacier NP sunrise:



More photos please.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 25, 2019)

rnros said:


> Hi JV, fantastic trip, we did something similar a number of years ago, but we had a more leisurely schedule, 3200 miles in 30 days. LOL At the time I thought that was intense!
> 
> We were able to also include NPs in NM, CA, OR, and WA, maybe more. Did it with a van and tents, van was a new custom rental, so that was comfortable and easy for driving those distances. Towing a pop-up is a little more difficult for those distances, so I'm impressed.
> 
> Thanks for the comparison notes on the 6N7GTs. Great family of tubes for the GOTL.



Hello nnros...

We had 4 really LONG days so a lot of the miles piled up in those 4 days.  I would prefer to have been more relaxed in the pace.  Next time we do 2 weeks, we will do it all in Colorado, stay 4 nights at each stop.  The Popup we have is on a high quality trailer, and is very well behaved behind us.  Only costs us 2 mpg to pull it (which I think is amazing).  Like the popup, because you can see over it in the rear view mirror and see what is going on behind you.

The NU 6N7GT is a superb driver for the GOTL.   Really hard to beat it imho. 

Cheers


----------



## Zachik

Are there any differences between Bendix 6080 with slotted plates vs. solid plates?


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> You can use all of your 6SN7 in both amps....very nice.
> You ever think about getting rid of it...you know where to find me
> Would love to sample a few different planar cans out of this amp
> 
> ...



20 watts? I never found out the power output of the Studio Six but it drives my hd800, lcd-3f and verite perfectly and simultaneously too. It's so quiet it's like a solid state amp blackness. I'm now running my GEC U52 on it. First time I've ever use the U52. Beautiful tone. Now I'm convinced rectifiers does make a difference. Both the Mullard GZ34 and U52 are so much better than the stock JJ GZ34. Change in tone is clearly heard.

This is called a SET (Single Ended Triode) amp with 100% tube amplification. Is this an OTL or transformer coupled like your GEL3N? I'm clueless but the amp has an astonishing clarity picking up details I've not heard before now listening to my Dire Straits sounds.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 25, 2019)

The amp uses two 6V6 tubes as transformer coupled output devices, and a 6SN7 as the input tube

SET means Single-Ended Triode. A triode is a three-electrode amplification tube, and a single-ended triode amplifier is one where only a single triode tube acts as the gain stage.


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Are there any differences between Bendix 6080 with slotted plates vs. solid plates?


@rosgr63  has/had all five types at one point. Perhaps he can explain. Ive only heard the one pair I have.



UntilThen said:


> Now I'm convinced rectifiers does make a difference.



Ive tried explaining to anyone that will listen to me that the rectifier tube does make more than a subtle difference in the GOTL. Apparently in your new amp as well.


----------



## mordy

Out of curiosity tried to look up the Studio Six - the company states out of production and unavailable.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> The amp uses two 6V6 tubes as transformer coupled output devices, and a 6SN7 as the input tube
> 
> SET means Single-Ended Triode. A triode is a three-electrode amplification tube, and a single-ended triode amplifier is one where only a single triode tube acts as the gain stage.



Thanks now I know.


----------



## mordy

Here is a nice picture of a tube amp. The white rings are called ferrite rings. I know what a tube ring is and what a ferrite choke is, but what is a ferrite ring?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Out of curiosity tried to look up the Studio Six - the company states out of production and unavailable.



It says currently out of stock and unavailable. Didn't say out of production but who knows.  I don't see much discussions about the Studio Six anymore. Addicted To Audio still have it listed on their website but I got it from an audio enthusiast. It's kept in immaculate condition.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Sounds like for my taste - the Bendix would be better fit. A shame since GEC seems a little bit cheaper and easier to come by.



You need to go the full circle in getting the GEC 6as7g, Tung Sol 5998, Bendix 6080 and GEC 6080. Those are my 4 favourite power tubes ... 6BL7 / 6BX7 is another story. 

... and no my tubes are not for adoptions as well.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 25, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> While not "cheap" i think you should consider grabbing that pair from Stavros. You wont find a better guy to deal with.
> I was looking for an inexpensive pair,and only one came up under $200.00,and at the time I was broke,so someone here( @Phantaminum  maybe?) grabbed them. Most of the other pairs Ive seen can go for over 300.00 or more,and you dont know whom youre buying from.





Zachik said:


> Are there any differences between Bendix 6080 with slotted plates vs. solid plates?





Zachik said:


> Sounds like for my taste - the Bendix would be better fit. A shame since GEC seems a little bit cheaper and easier to come by.



Monster is right, $200 for a pair of Bendix is actually a pretty good price, you would be hard-pressed to find them for less than that.  The Bendix show up fairly often still.  It is only recently that the GEC 6080 started showing up in greater abundance on eBay.  I bought a pair a few months ago and there were absolutely none available on eBay.  I would say they are pretty similar in terms of availability.  There are Bendix 6080 listings on eBay for $300+ that have been there for months and months, the true market price is around $200 a pair or $100 per tube.

I recently sold a single Bendix 6080WB solid-plate, I did a quick comparison between it and the slotted before I sent it off, I did not hear a substantial difference.  I can say the same about the Bendix and Tung-Sol/Chatham 6080WB solid-plates that I currently own, not a substantial difference in sound.  If you want, I would be happy to do a more thorough listen to be sure.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Monster is right, $200 for a pair of Bendix is actually a pretty good price, you would be hard-pressed to find them for less than that.  The Bendix show up fairly often still.  It is only recently that the GEC 6080 started showing up in greater abundance on eBay.  I bought a pair a few months ago and there were absolutely none available on eBay.  I would say they are pretty similar in terms of availability.  There are Bendix 6080 listings on eBay for $300+ that have been there for months and months, the true market price is around $200 a pair or $100 per tube.
> 
> I recently sold a single Bendix 6080WB solid-plate, I did a quick comparison between it and the slotted before I sent it off, I did not hear a substantial difference.  I can say the same about the Bendix and Tung-Sol/Chatham 6080WB solid-plates that I currently own, not a substantial difference in sound.  If you want, I would be happy to do a more thorough listen to be sure.


And I have Raytheon labeled Bendix 6080WB tubes that also sound the same.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm swapping Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and the ECC33 between the 2 amps. I'm burning up my jewels but the sonics !


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Ive tried explaining to anyone that will listen to me that the rectifier tube does make more than a subtle difference in the GOTL. Apparently in your new amp as well.



You and me both! 

IMHO, I suspect that the better the amp the more difference the rectifier makes.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I'm now running my GEC U52 on it. First time I've ever use the U52. Beautiful tone. Now I'm convinced rectifiers does make a difference. Both the Mullard GZ34 and U52 are so much better than the stock JJ GZ34. Change in tone is clearly heard.





Monsterzero said:


> Ive tried explaining to anyone that will listen to me that the rectifier tube does make more than a subtle difference in the GOTL. Apparently in your new amp as well.



Agree.

ALO Studio Six designer Thomas Martens on tube rectification: _“I do realize that yes, most often the first impulse of many (most?) Electrical engineers upon seeing a tube rectifier in use is to say:_ _‘Hey, why don’t you just use some good fast diodes in there and a timed soft-start circuit? You can get rid of that big, hot and wasteful tube rectifier!’_ _*Well… the virtue of a properly implemented tube rectifier also makes itself known in the resulting sound of the amp.*”_


----------



## DecentLevi

2359glenn said:


> DL
> I think it would be best to use Octal sockets.  Two 6J5 drivers and two or four EL34 outputs.
> Adapters for all these tubes can be made from octal sockets rather then from some oddball socket.
> It is up to you.



Thanks Glenn, I'm very excited about the upcoming amp!! And I think it's a great idea to use Octal sockets for my GEL11 amp, that way I can have a more solid and universal base connection for rolling different types.

Also I'm fascinated with your idea of having two 6J5 as drivers. I've had good experience and still have some good pairs. But since these are single triode tubes, would the likes of EL11 still be compatible as drivers even with adapters? Someone please help on this, thanks!


----------



## UntilThen

Now I’m dreaming of a Cossor 53ku. I hate you Studio Six !!!


----------



## Monsterzero (Aug 25, 2019)

gibosi said:


> You and me both!
> 
> IMHO, I suspect that the better the amp the more difference the rectifier makes.





rnros said:


> Agree.
> 
> ALO Studio Six designer Thomas Martens on tube rectification: _“I do realize that yes, most often the first impulse of many (most?) Electrical engineers upon seeing a tube rectifier in use is to say:_ _‘Hey, why don’t you just use some good fast diodes in there and a timed soft-start circuit? You can get rid of that big, hot and wasteful tube rectifier!’_ _*Well… the virtue of a properly implemented tube rectifier also makes itself known in the resulting sound of the amp.*”_



TBH,when I first got my GOTL I knew next to nothing about tubes,as many of you know. I know a bit more now thru countless hours of reading and from the generous sharing of knowledge on the topic from others in this thread.
When I ordered my GOTL I didnt know what a HEXFRED was,or how it differed in sound from a tube,but I guessed and ordered the option to roll either,and im glad I did. I own 4 rectifiers plus a HEXFRED,and rarely does my GEC 18/20(4 volt equivalent to U52) leave its socket. It just sounds so much better to my ears than my others.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Monster is right, $200 for a pair of Bendix is actually a pretty good price, you would be hard-pressed to find them for less than that.  The Bendix show up fairly often still.  It is only recently that the GEC 6080 started showing up in greater abundance on eBay.  I bought a pair a few months ago and there were absolutely none available on eBay.  I would say they are pretty similar in terms of availability.  There are Bendix 6080 listings on eBay for $300+ that have been there for months and months, the true market price is around $200 a pair or $100 per tube.
> 
> I recently sold a single Bendix 6080WB solid-plate, I did a quick comparison between it and the slotted before I sent it off, I did not hear a substantial difference.  I can say the same about the Bendix and Tung-Sol/Chatham 6080WB solid-plates that I currently own, not a substantial difference in sound.  If you want, I would be happy to do a more thorough listen to be sure.




My findings too....any 6080 with any configuration of graphite plates in a nice tube.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> TBH,when I first got my GOTL I knew next to nothing about tubes,as many of you know. I know a bit more now thru countless hours of reading and from the generous sharing of knowledge on the topic from others in this thread.
> When I ordered my GOTL I didnt know what a HEXFRED was,or how it differed in sound from a tube,but I guessed and ordered the option to roll either,and im glad I did. I own 4 rectifiers plus a HEXFRED,and rarely does my GEC 18/20(4 volt equivalent to U52) leave its socket. It just sounds so much better to my ears than my others.




Heck yeah, that is one of the best rectifiers available.

That Fat Cossor is another


----------



## mordy (Aug 25, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks Glenn, I'm very excited about the upcoming amp!! And I think it's a great idea to use Octal sockets for my GEL11 amp, that way I can have a more solid and universal base connection for rolling different types.
> 
> Also I'm fascinated with your idea of having two 6J5 as drivers. I've had good experience and still have some good pairs. But since these are single triode tubes, would the likes of EL11 still be compatible as drivers even with adapters? Someone please help on this, thanks!


If you get the GOTL with C3g sockets you can use the EL11 as drivers with adapters.
You could also use a pair in the 6SN7 front socket with an adapter, but according to my understanding the C3g sockets are better suited since it is pentode to pentode.
(Hope I got the 6SN7 part right.)


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> You need to go the full circle in getting the GEC 6as7g, Tung Sol 5998, Bendix 6080 and GEC 6080. Those are my 4 favourite power tubes ... 6BL7 / 6BX7 is another story.


You, sir, are a bad person!


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> You and me both!
> 
> IMHO, I suspect that the better the amp the more difference the rectifier makes.


Count me too.

The rectifier tubes will last longer than the rest. So I will go to the best tubes (again to my ears) ASAP instead of testing all available.


----------



## Monsterzero

So all this talk of the Bendix 6080 inspired me to roll them in tonight with the el8,a combo I've not tried before. Listening to metal as I type. Snappy,great slam,and perhaps the widest ive heard the Verite go.
Almost solid state sounding. Very good layering and separation. Nice combo.


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> You, sir, are a bad person!



I wonder... Do you have a Glenn OTL now? Or are you still in the queue to get one?


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> Count me too.
> 
> The rectifier tubes will last longer than the rest. So I will go to the best tubes (again to my ears) ASAP instead of testing all available.



Why would a tube that constantly has full AC voltages coursing though it's veins,  last longer?


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Why would a tube that constantly has full AC voltages coursing though it's veins,  last longer?


Not that its a good comparison,but the Lampi TRP DAC I have,Lukasz has said that its very easy on rectifiers,and they should last ten or more years.


----------



## heliosphann

Well, had a few work related Fantasy Football drafts today (one in person at my house, the other online). Defending champ in both leagues, so I had to bring my A-game.

Now it's time to chill. All this Bendix 6080 talk prompted me to roll mine in... With @L0rdGwyn's 7802's! Whoa buddy. Adds an extra thick juicy layer of thump! Awesome pairing.



Monsterzero said:


> While not "cheap" i think you should consider grabbing that pair from Stavros. You wont find a better guy to deal with.
> I was looking for an inexpensive pair,and only one came up under $200.00,and at the time I was broke,so someone here( @Phantaminum  maybe?) grabbed them. Most of the other pairs Ive seen can go for over 300.00 or more,and you dont know whom youre buying from.



I nabbed a slotted pair for $120 or so when those pairs came up form the same seller. Not the best quality tubes, but they don't have any noise and sound great!



UntilThen said:


> You need to go the full circle in getting the GEC 6as7g, Tung Sol 5998, Bendix 6080 and GEC 6080. Those are my 4 favourite power tubes ... 6BL7 / 6BX7 is another story.
> 
> ... and no my tubes are not for adoptions as well.



What happens to your tubes when you succumb from a bite of a redback spider?  Or an eastern brown snake? Just wondering... 



UntilThen said:


> Now I’m dreaming of a Cossor 53ku. I hate you Studio Six !!!



I need one too!


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> So all this talk of the Bendix 6080 inspired me to roll them in tonight with the el8,a combo I've not tried before. Listening to metal as I type. Snappy,great slam,and perhaps the widest ive heard the Verite go.
> Almost solid state sounding. Very good layering and separation. Nice combo.


Hi M0,
Now put in the RCA 6080s together with the Bendix and tell me what you think!


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Hi M0,
> Now put in the RCA 6080s together with the Bendix and tell me what you think!



Hmmmm...I was thinking about that earlier. I will get back to you.


----------



## attmci (Aug 25, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Why would a tube that constantly has full AC voltages coursing though it's veins,  last longer?



@*JazzVinyl*


It’s hard to say how long do vacuum tubes last. That’s a complicated question because it depends on many factors. How the tube is used is one of the factors. Heat is the enemy of electronics and a lot of people believe large, high-current power tubes degrade quickly than “low-current” rectifier tubes. Do you agree?


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> What happens to your tubes when you succumb from a bite of a redback spider? Or an eastern brown snake? Just wondering...



Spiders and snakes won’t come near me because I’m protected by red hot vintage tubes.


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> Spiders and snakes won’t come near me because I’m protected by red hot vintage tubes.



I'm glad my listening setup is in my basement. I don't have to worry about any heat from the GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks Glenn, I'm very excited about the upcoming amp!! And I think it's a great idea to use Octal sockets for my GEL11 amp, that way I can have a more solid and universal base connection for rolling different types.
> 
> Also I'm fascinated with your idea of having two 6J5 as drivers. I've had good experience and still have some good pairs. But since these are single triode tubes, would the likes of EL11 still be compatible as drivers even with adapters? Someone please help on this, thanks!



I’m inclined to go with a simple and elegant approach. Don’t try to accommodate all kinds of tubes in your next reference amp.

A single 6sn7 or dual L63 as drivers. 6v6 / el34 / EL38 / EL38 / 5881 / 6L6 etc as power tubes.

Forget about the EL11s. Don’t try to fit everything into this amp.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> I wonder... Do you have a Glenn OTL now? Or are you still in the queue to get one?


I am a proud owner of a GOTL, and in fact on Glenn's queue for a very special amp... will provide details (and photos) when I get it...  
The GOTL is for tube rolling craziness, while the new one (gotta think of a name, like UT names his amp ideas...) - is going to be on a whole other level (and no tube rolling on that one!)
I will just say, for now, that the new one is a twist on the GEL3N design. No more clues or teasers for now!


----------



## Sound Trooper

Hey guys! How have you'll been?

I'm ashamed to report that I have not been able to use my GEL3N this month as my traveling schedule has been crazy. I only had the DX220 and Savant II as my travel companions on all of my trips and they have kept me company on these lonesome trips. Anyway, now I have 2 weeks back home and I plan to make full use of the time and re-acquaint myself with the soulful GEL3N.

Hey @UntilThen, nice looking studio 6 you got there. Looks like you have also scored a pair of the ZMF Verite, I bet they sound phenomenal on the GOTL. I've also been looking intently at the new Vertite closed headphones and contemplating on weather to pull the trigger on a pair. However with the miles I am putting on at this moment, it looks to be a waste if i don't have the time to sit down and enjoy them. 

Happy listening!


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> I can answer that because I have both. Bendix has a darker, warmer tone and the bass weight and soundstage is class leading. GEC 6080 on the other hand is the other extreme. It's clear, refined and the bass is not as pronounced. Being one who appreciates clarity and details more, I prefer the GEC. For someone who prefers blues and crave a warmer and stronger bass presence, the Bendix is your choice.
> 
> Ultimately you have to look at your other partnering tubes and gear and of course your preference.


Sometimes I think I'm going a little crazy when I hear differences between tubes, but my findings are the same as yours here.



Sound Trooper said:


> Hey guys! How have you'll been?
> 
> I'm ashamed to report that I have not been able to use my GEL3N this month as my traveling schedule has been crazy. I only had the DX220 and Savant II as my travel companions on all of my trips and they have kept me company on these lonesome trips. Anyway, now I have 2 weeks back home and I plan to make full use of the time and re-acquaint myself with the soulful GEL3N.
> 
> ...


Closed back are great for traveling and also when there are other people around  The only place I found where my closed back Stellia didn't work well was when on the plane, and I went back to my Sony NR headphones for that.


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> I am a proud owner of a GOTL, and in fact on Glenn's queue for a very special amp... will provide details (and photos) when I get it...
> The GOTL is for tube rolling craziness, while the new one (gotta think of a name, like UT names his amp ideas...) - is going to be on a whole other level (and no tube rolling on that one!)
> I will just say, for now, that the new one is a twist on the GEL3N design. No more clues or teasers for now!



I thought that if you were still in the queue for the GOTL, you can slowly purchase the tubes you want, like the Bendix and GE 6080. But of course, it is much harder to be patient when you actually have the amp in the room with you.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> @*JazzVinyl*
> 
> 
> It’s hard to say how long do vacuum tubes last. That’s a complicated question because it depends on many factors. How the tube is used is one of the factors. Heat is the enemy of electronics and a lot of people believe large, high-current power tubes degrade quickly than “low-current” rectifier tubes. Do you agree?



Rectification is a tough job, and rectifier tubes were the first tubes to be replaced by Solid State devices.  

One would think that the desire to find a different way to change AC to DC was due to reliability issues of doing that job via vacuum tubes?


----------



## Sound Trooper

leftside said:


> Closed back are great for traveling and also when there are other people around  The only place I found where my closed back Stellia didn't work well was when on the plane, and I went back to my Sony NR headphones for that.



I do agree, but the closed backs we are used to (eg. Stellia, TH900, etc.) are so damm big and i think they look strange when we wear them in public. I tend to think IEMs and other travel friendly headphones (eg. Bose) works better in this regard.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Hi M0,
> Now put in the RCA 6080s together with the Bendix and tell me what you think!


 The RCA 6080s add too much bloom in the bass when coupled with the Bendix/el8s/GEC 18/20 for fast metal. Im losing snap in the snares as well.
It does add a little fuzzyness into the mix which goes well for heavy psych and stoner.

Im rocking Ruby The Hatchet  Heavy Blanket. Sounds very fuzzy,as it should. If youve watched any of my reviews,you might recognize the intro.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> The RCA 6080s add too much bloom in the bass when coupled with the Bendix/el8s/GEC 18/20 for fast metal. Im losing snap in the snares as well.
> It does add a little fuzzyness into the mix which goes well for heavy psych and stoner.
> 
> Im rocking Ruby The Hatchet  Heavy Blanket. Sounds very fuzzy,as it should. If youve watched any of my reviews,you might recognize the intro.



I forgot - I don't have the rectifier option.
In any case, I use a third driver with the EL8 and find that it sounds better. 6N7 Ken-Rad, 6N7GT/T NU, 12SX7GT RCA and NU 6SL7WGT are the top drivers so far.


----------



## leftside

Sound Trooper said:


> I do agree, but the closed backs we are used to (eg. Stellia, TH900, etc.) are so damm big and i think they look strange when we wear them in public. I tend to think IEMs and other travel friendly headphones (eg. Bose) works better in this regard.


Good for the hotel room? Especially when paired with the DX220.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> I forgot - I don't have the rectifier option.
> In any case, I use a third driver with the EL8 and find that it sounds better. 6N7 Ken-Rad, 6N7GT/T NU, 12SX7GT RCA and NU 6SL7WGT are the top drivers so far.



I can try the hexfred tomorrow night.
You like all those drivers in the triple config better than the TSBGRP? That driver to me was fantastic in the triple driver set.


----------



## DecentLevi

UntilThen said:


> I’m inclined to go with a simple and elegant approach. Don’t try to accommodate all kinds of tubes in your next reference amp.
> 
> A single 6sn7 or dual L63 as drivers. 6v6 / el34 / EL38 / EL38 / 5881 / 6L6 etc as power tubes.
> 
> Forget about the EL11s. Don’t try to fit everything into this amp.


This will be my final amp for a long time and I want it to be somewhat flexible. 

I think I would prefer 6SN7 driver slots, this would make it quite versatile on drivers. If dual 6J5 drivers have any sonic advantage or are better suited for the specific circuit someone please let me know and I can go this route, otherwise I would go with dual 6SN7 drivers, along with quad EL34, etc. powers.


----------



## gibosi

DecentLevi said:


> I would go with dual 6SN7 drivers



There is no compelling reason to use two 6SN7 drivers. One is all you need. I assure you that if two were really better, Glenn would use two.


----------



## DecentLevi

gibosi said:


> There is no compelling reason to use two 6SN7 drivers. One is all you need. I assure you that if two were really better, Glenn would use two.


Oh OK. I'm just so used to having 2 drivers like with the Elise / Euforia. What about the GOTL, does this use 1 or 2 drivers? I do find the idea of 2 6J5s interesting. Would you say it somehow yields better resolution or channel separation with two single-triode tubes vs. 1 dual-triode 6SN7 tube?


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 26, 2019)

I actually just recalled way back on my pioneering days with the Project Ember amp that a dual adapter for two 6J5's sounded much better to me than any single 6SN7's - especially two of the the ST-shaped Visseaux which I don't think I have anymore, and others agreed on this too - improved instrument separation, soundstage, etc. I'm not sure if the same improvement would be had using two of these vs. 1x 6SN7 on the GEL3N amp too with it's different circuit, but Glenn must have recommended it for a reason.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> I actually just recalled way back on my pioneering days with the Project Ember amp that a dual adapter for two 6J5's sounded much better to me than any single 6SN7's - especially two of the the ST-shaped Visseaux which I don't think I have anymore, and others agreed on this too - improved instrument separation, soundstage, etc. I'm not sure if the same improvement would be had using two of these vs. 1x 6SN7 on the GEL3N amp too with it's different circuit, but Glenn must have recommended it for a reason.



I can make it with one 6SN7?  But I think two 6J5s will look better and really good 6J5s can still be had for cheep.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey guys! How have you'll been?
> 
> I'm ashamed to report that I have not been able to use my GEL3N this month as my traveling schedule has been crazy. I only had the DX220 and Savant II as my travel companions on all of my trips and they have kept me company on these lonesome trips. Anyway, now I have 2 weeks back home and I plan to make full use of the time and re-acquaint myself with the soulful GEL3N.
> 
> ...



Hello Sam, it's been a while since we last talk. Good to hear from you again. Verite and Studio Six are great and so is the newly restored GOTL. I can settle down to listen and enjoy music now ...... until the next itch...... hence my sign on name  Until Then. 

Well you take good care and don't forget to relax and don't work too hard.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Oh OK. I'm just so used to having 2 drivers like with the Elise / Euforia. What about the GOTL, does this use 1 or 2 drivers? I do find the idea of 2 6J5s interesting. Would you say it somehow yields better resolution or channel separation with two single-triode tubes vs. 1 dual-triode 6SN7 tube?



Precisely as Glenn says, dual 6J5 looks better than a single 6sn7. In my testing of the single GEC B36 (12volt version of the 6sn7) and dual GEC L63, I find no noticeable difference between them. YMMV.

Whether single 6sn7 or dual 6J5, you can have a good selection of tubes with varying tones. Very good 6sn7 springs to mind, notably Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, Tung Sol 6sn7gt black glass round plates, Mullard ECC33, etc etc.

GOTL and Studio Six both use a single 6sn7 and they sound great !!! In the case of GOTL, you have a choice of 6, 12 or 25 volt tubes if you have the switch option on the amp.

Also EC Zana Deux uses a single driver too. DNA Stratus as well. 

It's in the implementation and it's best to listen to Glenn.


----------



## whirlwind

The cool thing about using just one driver tube is that you can test drive and own many of the so called best SN7 tubes for half of the cash....allows you to collect some of the best driver tubes
and at that point you have less of an urge to try even more tubes with more adapters ect.

The best advice you can get would come from Glenn.  The GOTL amp can have a back round black as midnight and still sound phenomenal with the least amount of things to create more noise.
Sometimes less is better.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> This will be my final amp for a long time and I want it to be somewhat flexible.
> 
> I think I would prefer 6SN7 driver slots, this would make it quite versatile on drivers. If dual 6J5 drivers have any sonic advantage or are better suited for the specific circuit someone please let me know and I can go this route, otherwise I would go with dual 6SN7 drivers, *along with quad EL34*, etc. powers.



A set of quad NOS EL34 will cost you a lot. Better to stick with 2 x EL34.


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> Well, had a few work related Fantasy Football drafts today (one in person at my house, the other online). Defending champ in both leagues, so I had to bring my A-game.
> 
> 
> Had our Fantasy Football Draft Sunday as well........now just to get my name on that trophy.
> ...


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 26, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> I actually just recalled way back on my pioneering days with the Project Ember amp that a dual adapter for two 6J5's sounded much better to me than any single 6SN7's - especially two of the the ST-shaped Visseaux which I don't think I have anymore, and others agreed on this too - improved instrument separation, soundstage, etc. I'm not sure if the same improvement would be had using two of these vs. 1x 6SN7 on the GEL3N amp too with it's different circuit, but Glenn must have recommended it for a reason.



Yes, this has been my exact experience while rolling 6J5 drivers over the past month or two, better separation, staging, air compared to the best 6SN7s.  The Visseaux 6J5G are very good, one if my favorites, but quite rare and expensive.


----------



## UntilThen

I was listening to 'I want to break free' by Queen with the Verite and I thought to myself, Damm the Studio Six with Verite sounds astonishing. Then I look at the gear and I realise the Verite is connected to the GOTL. 

So..... Vertie with GOTL sounds astonishing with 'I want to break free' !   and I'll tell you what's astonishing about it. It's the bass mannnn !

GOTL is running with Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x Sylvania 6BL7gt.

GOTL and the Studio Six sounds so good with my headphones I put the Sansui au alpha 907mr for sale on the classifieds and it sold in 5 mins !!!!!!! with another 2 persons in line......


----------



## UntilThen

Yesterday when I pick up 6v6 power tubes from the seller, he gave me a Ken Rad 6sn7gt. Told me it has a bit of noise occasionally. I tried it now on the Studio Six and it's quiet but the bass went up 3 notches. Ken Rad 6sn7gt does have a magnificent bass pump.

So curious, I inserted the Ken Rad 1633 into GOTL. Bass went up 4 notches !  I am no bass head but the bass from Ken Rad is just so nice without overpowering.

A picture of both Ken Rad in action.


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> This will be my final amp for a long time and I want it to be somewhat flexible.
> 
> I think I would prefer 6SN7 driver slots, this would make it quite versatile on drivers. If dual 6J5 drivers have any sonic advantage or are better suited for the specific circuit someone please let me know and I can go this route, otherwise I would go with dual 6SN7 drivers, along with quad EL34, etc. powers.



I think you will find that what you you know about tube sound/characteristics via an FA amp will not necessarily equate in Glenn's amp.

Tubes you loved in the FA amps may not be your faves in the Glenn.  Be prepared for a re-education 

The ability to easily change heater voltages in Glenn's driver stage will open so many doors....


----------



## UntilThen

2nd day verdict after 3 hours tonight with these 2 amps. I could not pick a favourite. Both are just so lovely sounding with Verite.

Studio Six soundstage is wider and review micro details in an uncanny way. GOTL has a vibrancy in it's tone. It's like a Berocca Bounce. Though narrower in it's soundstage, it's more intense in an exciting way. If force to choose, I'd give a slight preference to GOTL with Verite. LCD-3f seem to sound better on the Studio Six. In both cases, it's not night and day difference. Both are just beautiful sounding amps with these headphones.

Obviously when you factor in price, GOTL is a stonkingly good deal !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Yesterday when I pick up 6v6 power tubes from the seller, he gave me a Ken Rad 6sn7gt. Told me it has a bit of noise occasionally. I tried it now on the Studio Six and it's quiet but the bass went up 3 notches. Ken Rad 6sn7gt does have a magnificent bass pump.
> 
> So curious, I inserted the Ken Rad 1633 into GOTL. Bass went up 4 notches !  I am no bass head but the bass from Ken Rad is just so nice without overpowering.
> 
> A picture of both Ken Rad in action.



Yeah to Ken-Rads!

Now change the BX for BL and step back


----------



## JazzVinyl

NU 6N7GT
Mullard 6080's plus a pair of 6H13C's as powers...

Incredibly beautiful in the GOTL

Gotta Love it


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> I'm glad my listening setup is in my basement. I don't have to worry about any heat from the GOTL.



I need a detail report on GOTL and DNA Stratus. No need 2 pages but a summary of the highlights of each amp. What you prefer with each amp. I've always been curious of the Stratus. It's almost tragic that I miss the experience after waiting 8 months for that amp. Now I have to live that experience through you so stay in your basement and finish that report.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> GOTL and the Studio Six sounds so good with my headphones I put the Sansui au alpha 907mr for sale on the classifieds and it sold in 5 mins !!!!!!! with another 2 persons in line......



In other news today, first year member of Team Vintage,Until Then,abruptly retired from the team. UT,once viewed as a promising,up-and-coming member of Team Vintage leaves a gaping hole in the TV roster.
When asked why he quit, Until Then replied "Ive done lost my mind"
No word yet from Team Vintage as to who will step up and take his place on the roster.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Monsterzero said:


> So,some tubes popped up today on eBay that I had a saved search for. This is the first time these have come up,and I cant remember why I saved the search(*im old,cut me some slack)
> These are the non-dimple plates Tung Sol 6520.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/283590581937?ul_noapp=true
> ...



I'll have to respectfully disagree with those who say they don't sound any different than a regular TS 6AS7G.  To my ears they do.  Sweeter and more resolving, they are kind of a half-step between a TS 6AS7G and a GEC GAS7G IMO.  I got rid of my regular 6AS7s after getting the 6520 because I couldn't get into listening to the regular version anymore.  Now I just bounce between the 5998 and the 6520 depending on what headphone I'm using.

Are they worth what that person is asking?  I would have to say no.  If you could nab a pair for half that price I would say go for it.  Then again the prices of all of this stuff are going to keep going up and up as supplies dwindle.  We each have to decide what it's worth to us I suppose.


----------



## Xcalibur255

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTOROLA-G...833465?hash=item4b68aecd39:g:W~0AAOSw22JdIpM5

Another rectifier that works in the OTL that everybody has forgotten about:  the 5AU4.  The plates on these things are huge!  You can buy these cheap since they're not used in anything.


----------



## attmci

JazzVinyl said:


> Rectification is a tough job, and rectifier tubes were the first tubes to be replaced by Solid State devices.
> 
> One would think that the desire to find a different way to change AC to DC was due to reliability issues of doing that job via vacuum tubes?


Cost of quality tubes?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'll have to respectfully disagree with those who say they don't sound any different than a regular TS 6AS7G.  To my ears they do.  Sweeter and more resolving, they are kind of a half-step between a TS 6AS7G and a GEC GAS7G IMO.  I got rid of my regular 6AS7s after getting the 6520 because I couldn't get into listening to the regular version anymore.  Now I just bounce between the 5998 and the 6520 depending on what headphone I'm using.
> 
> Are they worth what that person is asking?  I would have to say no.  If you could nab a pair for half that price I would say go for it.  Then again the prices of all of this stuff are going to keep going up and up as supplies dwindle.  We each have to decide what it's worth to us I suppose.



Interesting, well maybe @Phantaminum can chime in, I think he has both.

I have a 6AS7G that I think also fills the gap between the Tung-Sol/Chatham and the GEC, the Japanese-made Nippon Electric.  When I did a head-to-head, I felt it was not far off from the GEC and definitely an improvement over the TS/Chatham in terms of staging, separation, and detail.  Availability is an issue though


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> In other news today, first year member of Team Vintage,Until Then,abruptly retired from the team. UT,once viewed as a promising,up-and-coming member of Team Vintage leaves a gaping hole in the TV roster.
> When asked why he quit, Until Then replied "Ive done lost my mind"
> No word yet from Team Vintage as to who will step up and take his place on the roster.


I believe that UT still has a Sansui 717AU integrated amp.
Personally, I have an Outlaw RR2150 from 2004 and a Tandberg 3006A from the early 80's. (And a Tandberg 3008A with one channel working)
Do I qualify?
I sold my Marantz 2030 from the 70's as well as my Mirage M3Si speakers, but I still have a 1970's Onkyo T9 tuner and a Mondial DIA100 MKII integrated amp.
And I sold my 1997 Headroom Max amp without any regrets - never liked it.





But I love the GOTL - this amp has SOUL.......


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Interesting, well maybe @Phantaminum can chime in, I think he has both.
> 
> I have a 6AS7G that I think also fills the gap between the Tung-Sol/Chatham and the GEC, the Japanese-made Nippon Electric.  When I did a head-to-head, I felt it was not far off from the GEC and definitely an improvement over the TS/Chatham in terms of staging, separation, and detail.  Availability is an issue though


I have the Chatham 6AS7G - could never muster any enthusiasm for it.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> But I love the GOTL - this amp has SOUL.......


+1
Glenn's love and passion is embedded in it. Nobody else, vintage or otherwise, can replicate that!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I felt the same about my Chatham 6AS7G, it was just "okay" sounding.  There is something about the 6520 that makes it more..... seductive might be the word?  They are just more musical to my ears.  Maybe my pair is odd and not representative, but I really enjoy them.  I almost gave up on them when I bought them.  They were alarmingly noisy at first.  But after about 8 hours they settled down and have been dead silent ever since.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> TS/Chatham in terms of staging, separation, and detail. Availability is an issue though


 This seems to be a recurring theme with the tubes you prefer. 



Xcalibur255 said:


> I felt the same about my Chatham 6AS7G, it was just "okay" sounding.  There is something about the 6520 that makes it more..... seductive might be the word?  They are just more musical to my ears.  Maybe my pair is odd and not representative, but I really enjoy them.  I almost gave up on them when I bought them.  They were alarmingly noisy at first.  But after about 8 hours they settled down and have been dead silent ever since.



Do you have the domino plates,or regular?


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> I felt the same about my Chatham 6AS7G, it was just "okay" sounding.  There is something about the 6520 that makes it more..... seductive might be the word?  They are just more musical to my ears.  Maybe my pair is odd and not representative, but I really enjoy them.  I almost gave up on them when I bought them.  They were alarmingly noisy at first.  But after about 8 hours they settled down and have been dead silent ever since.


I don't have the TS 6520. I was on the lookout for the dimpled version but did not find it (missed out on a Dumont labeled 6AS7G dimpled tube). I did see the TS 6520 regular plate version but didn't think of getting it since I thought it was another Chatham/TS 6AS7G.
I also have the Chatham 6080. Although the bass is very hard hitting, I could not find a good synergy with it.
Paid $5 each for the Chatham 6AS7G and 6080 (different sellers), incl shipping - must be getting old.....Today's prices are crazy.
When I bought the pair of the 6080s from some housewife, she messaged me that I must be brave to buy such an old untested pair. I felt like telling her that if somebody saved these tubes for 50 years they probably are good.....And they were.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Aug 26, 2019)

Mine are 6AS7 style plates.  AKA not Domino.  I haven't heard a 6520 with domino plates but I suspect that it would sound exactly like a 5998.  They may have been substituted off and on because they met the electrical requirements.

If I were to seek another pair of 6520 I actually would not be looking for a domino plate version.


----------



## Xcalibur255

[QUOTE="mordy, post: 15148185, member: 157386"
I also have the Chatham 6080. Although the bass is very hard hitting, I could not find a good synergy with it.[/QUOTE]

I have these too.  6080W metal base, with the triple micas and supports?  I agree they are fussy about synergy.  They actually sound quite nice in a few specific combinations with other tubes and headphones, but most of the times I have tried them I was underwhelmed.  I think I paid $9 for three of them and gave one away to a Darkvoice owner.  For those prices you can't really go wrong.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Interesting, well maybe @Phantaminum can chime in, I think he has both.
> 
> I have a 6AS7G that I think also fills the gap between the Tung-Sol/Chatham and the GEC, the Japanese-made Nippon Electric.  When I did a head-to-head, I felt it was not far off from the GEC and definitely an improvement over the TS/Chatham in terms of staging, separation, and detail.  Availability is an issue though



To my ears and gear the 6520 sounds pretty much the same to me as the normal TS 6AS7G. I will have to put the caveat that these tubes haven't been fully burned in compared to the TS 6AS7G and there are some 6520s with the dimpled plates (which is essentially a 5998).


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> Cost of quality tubes?



Oh my!  You completely missed my point.

Nvr mind, lets move on.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 26, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> The cool thing about using just one driver tube is that you can test drive and own many of the so called best SN7 tubes for half of the cash....allows you to collect some of the best driver tubes
> and at that point you have less of an urge to try even more tubes with more adapters ect.
> 
> The best advice you can get would come from Glenn.  The GOTL amp can have a back round black as midnight and still sound phenomenal with the least amount of things to create more noise.
> Sometimes less is better.


I've decided to go with a single 6SN7 driver on my GEL11 amp (new name needed). This way I can get the best of both worlds, allowing me to try all my top notch 6SN7's like KenRad VT-231 and genuine Sylvania 'bad boys' (thanks to Stavros a while back), 6SN7W (though not metal base), and  with adapters I could try many others like the 9-pin noval mini tubes, EL11 and dual 6J5's.



L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, this has been my exact experience while rolling 6J5 drivers over the past month or two, better separation, staging, air compared to the best 6SN7s.  The Visseaux 6J5G are very good, one if my favorites, but quite rare and expensive.


Was this with a dual 6J5 adapter? And who did you get the adapter from? I have one but Chinese made.


----------



## Monsterzero

DecentLevi said:


> And who did you get the adapter from?



Ask @Deyan to make you one.


----------



## leftside

@DecentLevi I wouldn't sweat the finer details regarding the amp. A lot can change between now and when Glenn is ready to build your amp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> This seems to be a recurring theme with the tubes you prefer.



Gosh you're right, makes me feel like a jerk, I have to stop hunting rare tubes!  Half the fun is being able to share the experience with other people.



DecentLevi said:


> Was this with a dual 6J5 adapter? And who did you get the adapter from? I have one but Chinese made.



Yup, dual 6J5.  I like how Deyan's adapter has an understated look and it rotates 180 degrees in either direction.


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> Was this with a dual 6J5 adapter? And who did you get the adapter from? I have one but Chinese made.



No need to apologize for owning China adapters...they work just fine.

.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> In other news today, first year member of Team Vintage,Until Then,abruptly retired from the team. UT,once viewed as a promising,up-and-coming member of Team Vintage leaves a gaping hole in the TV roster.
> When asked why he quit, Until Then replied "Ive done lost my mind"
> No word yet from Team Vintage as to who will step up and take his place on the roster.



Totally love my short dalliance with vintage Sansui amps and the Sansui au alpha 907mr is at the top of the alpha range. I will miss it but it's just impractical for my purpose now. Though it's great with my headphones, it's best served using it to drive my big speakers. I can't bring my tower speakers here so a nice headphone system is just as good. I still have the Sansui au-717 to drive my Axis Voicebox S here and that is sufficient for when I want near field listening. The 907mr at 33kgs and the accompanying Tortech Japanese isolated step down transformer at 16kgs has to make room for the GOTL, Studio Six, Yggdrasil and Sansui au-717 on the Head-Fi rack. 

Looking back, I've move on some really nice gear but the current crop is the best with headphones in my opinion. Notable gear that have been moved on - Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP, Ragnarok, Sansui au alpha 907mr.

So Monster, Team Vintage still have you and of course Pete and his dad, whose friendship I'll always cherished.   I still have a Sansui au-717 and a Sony str 7325 receiver.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> @DecentLevi I wouldn't sweat the finer details regarding the amp. A lot can change between now and when Glenn is ready to build your amp.



Exactly !


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Totally love my short dalliance with vintage Sansui amps and the Sansui au alpha 907mr is at the top of the alpha range. I will miss it but it's just impractical for my purpose now. Though it's great with my headphones, it's best served using it to drive my big speakers. I can't bring my tower speakers here so a nice headphone system is just as good. I still have the Sansui au-717 to drive my Axis Voicebox S here and that is sufficient for when I want near field listening. The 907mr at 33kgs and the accompanying Tortech Japanese isolated step down transformer at 16kgs has to make room for the GOTL, Studio Six, Yggdrasil and Sansui au-717 on the Head-Fi rack.
> 
> Looking back, I've move on some really nice gear but the current crop is the best with headphones in my opinion. Notable gear that have been moved on - Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP, Ragnarok, Sansui au alpha 907mr.
> 
> So Monster, Team Vintage still have you and of course Pete and his dad, whose friendship I'll always cherished.   I still have a Sansui au-717 and a Sony str 7325 receiver.



Just busting your balls. Glad youre stoked with your current set-up.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Just busting your balls. Glad youre stoked with your current set-up.



The current set-up is great. I'm more than stoked ! It will take a substantial HiFi system with properly treated room acoustics, bass traps to give me equivalent joy. 

The next thing to go would sadly be my lovely vinyl system. It's just not getting used. I'll stick with a good digital high-res files system. So it will be goodbye Team Vinyl soon haha.


----------



## Monsterzero

Just replaced the stock Russian rectifier in my TRP with the lowly Chatham potato masher(less than 20 bucks). Wow what a difference! I can only imagine and save for some of the higher end tubes that have been recommended in the TRP thread located on another site.

Crazy improvement already,and this tube is NOS,not even burned in yet.


----------



## rnros

Monsterzero said:


> Just replaced the stock Russian rectifier in my TRP with the lowly Chatham potato masher(less than 20 bucks). Wow what a difference! I can only imagine and save for some of the higher end tubes that have been recommended in the TRP thread located on another site.
> 
> Crazy improvement already,and this tube is NOS,not even burned in yet.



It's a nice tube, have a couple of those. Good tonal qualities in the GOTL, just not enough current for some of the power tubes.
I'll try in the GEL3N at some point. Give it a try in the GOTL, just for a sense of the tone qualities. 
Impressive construction on that tube. I have Chatham and Cetron.


----------



## Monsterzero (Aug 26, 2019)

rnros said:


> It's a nice tube, have a couple of those. Good tonal qualities in the GOTL, just not enough current for some of the power tubes.
> I'll try in the GEL3N at some point. Give it a try in the GOTL, just for a sense of the tone qualities.
> Impressive construction on that tube. I have Chatham and Cetron.



Brent Jesse likes it as well,so much so that he claims it sounds quite similar to Western Electric rectifiers. Only problem is he wants $200.00 for them. 
Yeah theyre def built well. Very heavy. The sound is great!

EDIT: I asked Ken about these awhile back and he said they cant be used in the GOTL?


----------



## rnros (Aug 26, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Brent Jesse likes it as well,so much so that he claims it sounds quite similar to Western Electric rectifiers. Only problem is he wants $200.00 for them.
> Yeah theyre def built well. Very heavy. The sound is great!
> 
> EDIT: I asked Ken about these awhile back and he said they cant be used in the GOTL?



Perhaps that call was made on current capabilities, IDK, I've used it many times when I was pushing the limits of the GOTL heater current.
Has a lower heater current of 2A, so that's 1A that can be used on other tubes.
Like the tone and stage characteristics but wouldn't recommend it because of it's limitations.
Can sound a little bit soft or slower with more demanding driver/power tube configs.
In addition to the rugged construction, it is also subjected to tougher testing requirements:
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/5/5R4WGB.pdf

$200 at Brent Jesse? That is insane. Regardless of quality, they are not rare.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Just replaced the stock Russian rectifier in my TRP with the lowly Chatham potato masher(less than 20 bucks). Wow what a difference!


...and here we go again  
Monster - enjoy the new rabbit hole!


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> ...and here we go again
> Monster - enjoy the new rabbit hole!


Not really...Theres a dedicated group of Lampi users in Europe who get together and roll all their DACs and tubes and each vote on the consensus best sound.
The GEC KT66,followed by the Gold Lion KT77 and then TS EL34 seems to be the recommended tubes to use. In the rectifier slot they all like a KR Anniversary rectifier and the Takatsuki. All big $$$$.
So while TRP stands for Tube Rollers Paradise,it seems to be much less so than a GOTL,and the "best" tubes seem to have already been ID'd.

Waiting for @leftside to upgrade and let him roll in some of his tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> The current set-up is great. I'm more than stoked ! It will take a substantial HiFi system with properly treated room acoustics, bass traps to give me equivalent joy.
> 
> The next thing to go would sadly be my lovely vinyl system. It's just not getting used. I'll stick with a good digital high-res files system. So it will be goodbye Team Vinyl soon haha.



That's too bad, Matt...

I have lot's of examples of the vinyl sounding gorgeous and the digital losing something, especially in terms of sound stage.

Fortunately, my vinyl system is getting _more_ play these days,  and I am all the happier, for it 


Cheers


----------



## attmci (Aug 26, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> I actually never ended up getting it. When I wanted to buy it, everyplace was sold out, so I ended up getting a Singxer SU-1. I was meaning to pick one up used to do some comparisons with the SU-1, but it wasn't a priority.



I ordered one and it arrived today. So far the results are very positive (II2 vs USB vs bridge II playing DSD recording).


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> EDIT: I asked Ken about these awhile back and he said they cant be used in the GOTL?



The 5R4WG "Potato Masher"? This rectifier can provide 275ma. So the Potato Masher is actually a bit more powerful than the U52 (250ma) and the 53KU (250ma)....

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/5/5R4WGA.pdf
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/5/5R4WGB.pdf


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> So while TRP stands for Tube Rollers Paradise,it seems to be much less so than a GOTL,and the "best" tubes seem to have already been ID'd.


Cool - so when you upgrade to their TOTL $30K DAC, and sell your TRP to me, I will get it with the best tubes!  Great


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Cool - so when you upgrade to their TOTL $30K DAC, and sell your TRP to me, I will get it with the best tubes!  Great



Oh I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Lampizator offers a nice upgrade program,deducting 10% of retail price per year of ownership on the current gear. That being said,unless I win a huge lottery(I dont even play the lottery) this DAC is my final stop.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> this DAC is my final stop.


oh - OK.
WAIT!!!  I have heard that line many times before...


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 26, 2019)

Well, my third and final Fivre 6N7G just died on me.  One shorted, one noisy, one heater dead.  I guess it wasn't meant to be  maybe I'll try again when the pain subsides.

On to the next tube!


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well, my third and final Fivre 6N7G just died on me.  One shorted, one noisy, one heater dead.  I guess it wasn't meant to be  maybe I'll try again when the pain subsides.
> 
> On to the next tube!



Get an NU 6N7GT!!

And send @mordy a PM about the noisy one...he may have a remedy!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> Get an NU 6N7GT!!
> 
> And send @mordy a PM about the noisy one...he may have a remedy!!



I have tried just about everything with that tube, I think it is possessed.  Only an exorcism will save it at this point, but I am all ears, mordy.

Ya know, I actually have a NU 6N7GT hiding somewhere, thanks for reminding me JV!  Haven't spent much time with honestly.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 26, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have tried just about everything with that tube, I think it is possessed.  Only an exorcism will save it at this point, but I am all ears, mordy.
> 
> Ya know, I actually have a NU 6N7GT hiding somewhere, thanks for reminding me JV!  Haven't spent much time with honestly.



Great!!

Run the NU 6N7GT and 1 or 2 pairs of 2x MU (Gain) powers...(6080 or 6AS7G's..)


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> Great!!
> 
> Run the NU 6N7GT and 1 or 2 pairs of 2x MU (Gain) powers...(6080 or 6AS7G's..)



Thanks!  Here is the one I have, I think I will give it a go with a quad of 6080s, maybe Mullard and GEC.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 26, 2019)

I have it in now, National Union 6N7GT input, quad GEC and Mullard 6080 output.  Listening to Joanna Newsom, very textured and organic sound, great for her voice.  Thanks for the recommendation, I needed a rebound tube 

By the way, because I'm a weirdo, I measure tube temperatures every so often with my IR thermometer.  The data is telling me the same thing that I saw with the 7802, a quad of 6080s runs cooler than a pair by around 30-40 C.

So stack those tubes up!


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks!  Here is the one I have, I think I will give it a go with a quad of 6080s, maybe Mullard and GEC.
> *Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 5, Guests: 3)*



A black glass NU 6N7GT...!!  Very nice!

Paired with Mullard and GEC 6080's...no less!  Excellent!!  Bet it sounds super great!!


----------



## mordy (Aug 26, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have it in now, National Union 6N7GT input, quad GEC and Mullard 6080 output.  Listening to Joanna Newsom, very textured and organic sound, thanks for the recommendation, I needed a rebound tube
> 
> By the way, because I'm a weirdo, I measure tube temperatures every so often with my IR thermometer.  The data is telling me the same thing that I saw with the 7802, a quad of 6080s runs cooler than a pair by around 30-40 C.
> 
> So stack those tubes up!


The NU 6N7GT/T is a great sounding tube - the gray glass are from the 40's.
I have been able to fix some noisy tubes (pops and crackles - not hum) by heating each tube pin with a 30W soldering iron for around 30 seconds. Just hold the tube upright so that any solder that might flow doesn't end up inside the tube.
For hum and microphonics I have had luck by applying and stretching a tight band of self fusing silicone tape around the glass.
Question: When you measure a quad temperature, are you referring to the tubes themselves (hottest point) or the amp chassis? I would think that what counts is the amp temperature.
IMHO I have also noticed that tubes that have been burnt in and used for a longer time tend to run less hot compared to when new.
PS: It seems to me that that NU is gray glass (haven't seen any black glass 6N7GT) but who knows.....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> The NU 6N7GT/T is a great sounding tube - the gray glass are from the 40's.
> I have been able to fix some noisy tubes (pops and crackles - not hum) by heating each tube pin with a 30W soldering iron for around 30 seconds. Just hold the tube upright so that any solder that might flow doesn't end up inside the tube.
> For hum and microphonics I have had luck by applying and stretching a tight band of self fusing silicone tape around the glass.
> Question: When you measure a quad temperature, are you referring to the tubes themselves (hottest point) or the amp chassis? I would think that what counts is the amp temperature.
> ...



Hey mordy - thanks for the tips!  I'll try reflowing the solder first, nothing to lose at this point, the noise is so bad the tube is pretty much unusable 

I am measuring the tubes themselves, the hottest point, since that was Glenn's concern about the 7802 when I first started measuring.  So, no worries about running the tubes too hot in a quad configuration.  But the chassis is nice and cool too, well below the component ratings.

It is indeed gray glass on my NU 6N7GT, similar to the interior coatings you see on the RCA VT-231 or GEC L63.


----------



## mordy

What are the component ratings?


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey mordy - thanks for the tips!  I'll try reflowing the solder first, nothing to lose at this point, the noise is so bad the tube is pretty much unusable
> 
> I am measuring the tubes themselves, the hottest point, since that was Glenn's concern about the 7802 when I first started measuring.  So, no worries about running the tubes too hot in a quad configuration.  But the chassis is nice and cool too, well below the component ratings.
> 
> It is indeed gray glass on my NU 6N7GT, similar to the interior coatings you see on the RCA VT-231 or GEC L63.



Man, I was running the 6080 Bendix and 7802's tonight and I noticed the volume knob was starting to get hot!


----------



## UntilThen

Everything will start to get hot with quad 6080. You need water cooling.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have it in now, National Union 6N7GT input, quad GEC and Mullard 6080 output.  Listening to Joanna Newsom, very textured and organic sound, great for her voice.  Thanks for the recommendation, I needed a rebound tube
> 
> By the way, because I'm a weirdo, I measure tube temperatures every so often with my IR thermometer.  The data is telling me the same thing that I saw with the 7802, a quad of 6080s runs cooler than a pair by around 30-40 C.
> 
> So stack those tubes up!




wow...this is pretty amazing...I would have never thunk it.


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> Man, I was running the 6080 Bendix and 7802's tonight and I noticed the volume knob was starting to get hot!



Definitely not a good thing.  The chassis on the OTL can get hot, heck it is a huge heatsink...but if the volume knob is warming up ...well...you know.


----------



## DecentLevi

I just won this GEC KT66 tube, starting to collect a few for my upcoming amp. I'm looking forward to running 2-4x EL3N, EL34, EL39 (with adapters), KT66, etc. with 1x 6SN7 family in the front.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-x-1-KT66-GEC-UK-Tests-stronger-than-new-Nice-tube-/133147845245

Anyone have a name idea for this amp?

@2359glenn after several revisions I've finalized my order request and sent it to you.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 27, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Man, I was running the 6080 Bendix and 7802's tonight and I noticed the volume knob was starting to get hot!



Woah, that seems pretty hot!  Maybe I'll throw those tubes in and see if I can measure it.  

Even though the tubes themselves are cooler, the increased heat to the chassis might be a concern.  I am going to remeasure it with my quad 6080s too.


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> Woah, that seems pretty hot!  Maybe I'll throw those tubes in and see if I can measure it.



Strange because I didn't really notice it being warm the night before. I'll fire it up again tonight and use an ir thermometer.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> Strange because I didn't really notice it being warm the night before. I'll fire it up again tonight and use an ir thermometer.



Hmm, you weren't listening to "White Light, White Heat" or "Heat of the Moment" were you?  This can affect an audiophile's thermal regulation.  When you listen tonight, try "Ice Ice Baby" or "Cold Turkey" and see if that fixes the issue.


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hmm, you weren't listening to "White Light, White Heat" or "Heat of the Moment" were you?  This can affect an audiophile's thermal regulation.  When you listen tonight, try "Ice Ice Baby" or "Cold Turkey" and see if that fixes the issue.



I think the problem was I was listening to Foreigner's "Hot Blooded", when I should have been listening to "Cold as Ice".


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> I think the problem was I was listening to Foreigner's "Hot Blooded", when I should have been listening to "Cold as Ice".



Oh yeah, there's your problem, case closed.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 27, 2019)

No idea why, but my noisy Fivre 6N7G is magically noise free.  Maybe it likes to low-gain 6080s, but even without music, any noise is barely audible.  This tube is very, very old and has been asleep a long time, maybe it just needs some time to adjust to the culture shock of the future.

Whatever, I'll take it!  Hopefully it doesn't come back.  Great sounding tube, one of my favorites.

Edit: Okay, not working with higher-gain tubes.  I now suspect there is some oscillation, it increases with frequency as the gain of the tubes goes up.


----------



## Phantaminum

These two are in the house. Funny enough, I find myself enjoying the Toolshed Amp more than the Teton right now. Going to wait for a few more rectifiers to come in and give it a few weeks before I decide what to do next. The Toolshed Darling amp really reminds me of the GOTL. It doesn’t have the tube rolling capabilities but it connects you to the music.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> These two are in the house. Funny enough, I find myself enjoying the Toolshed Amp more than the Teton right now. Going to wait for a few more rectifiers to come in and give it a few weeks before I decide what to do next. The Toolshed Darling amp really reminds me of the GOTL. It doesn’t have the tube rolling capabilities but it connects you to the music.



Interesting looking amp!  Has kind of steam punk look to it, very cool.  And all told, not crazy expensive, half the price of the Teton.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> No idea why, but my noisy Fivre 6N7G is magically noise free.  Maybe it likes to low-gain 6080s, but even without music, any noise is barely audible.  This tube is very, very old and has been asleep a long time, maybe it just needs some time to adjust to the culture shock of the future.
> 
> Whatever, I'll take it!  Hopefully it doesn't come back.  Great sounding tube, one of my favorites.
> 
> Edit: Okay, not working with higher-gain tubes.  I now suspect there is some oscillation, it increases with frequency as the gain of the tubes goes up.



Yes, the 6N7 tubes have a lot of gain.  They work best in the GOTL with low gain powers.  

How does the Fivre 6N7 compare to the NU?

If you have an ECC31, they also like low gain powers in the GOTL...(also due to that driver having lots of gain).

Cheers!


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> These two are in the house. Funny enough, I find myself enjoying the Toolshed Amp more than the Teton right now. Going to wait for a few more rectifiers to come in and give it a few weeks before I decide what to do next. The Toolshed Darling amp really reminds me of the GOTL. It doesn’t have the tube rolling capabilities but it connects you to the music.


Hi Phantaminum,
I notice that you have a bunch of tubes on a table on the right side of the picture. I have made it a habit to have small pieces of bubblewrap and a couple of rubber bands handy - I roll up the tube in a protective cover in case I'll drop it by mistake, or knock it over by mistake, ending up on the floor.
Like that Chatham 6AS7G that ended up in a thousand pieces. I do want to point out that the Russian 6H8C tubes are quite sturdy, and one of them survived a fall without any damage.....
But otherwise, I would recommend being careful with these non renewable resources.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The 25v Brimar 13D1 is another tube that appreciates one or two pairs of 2x MU powers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> I notice that you have a bunch of tubes on a table on the right side of the picture. I have made it a habit to have small pieces of bubblewrap and a couple of rubber bands handy - I roll up the tube in a protective cover in case I'll drop it by mistake, or knock it over by mistake, ending up on the floor.
> Like that Chatham 6AS7G that ended up in a thousand pieces. I do want to point out that the Russian 6H8C tubes are quite sturdy, and one of them survived a fall without any damage.....
> But otherwise, I would recommend being careful with these non renewable resources.



I was just looking at one of my Russian 6H8C's, before I put in the Brimar 13D1.  Do you run your 6H8C very often these days, Mordy?


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> I notice that you have a bunch of tubes on a table on the right side of the picture. I have made it a habit to have small pieces of bubblewrap and a couple of rubber bands handy - I roll up the tube in a protective cover in case I'll drop it by mistake, or knock it over by mistake, ending up on the floor.
> Like that Chatham 6AS7G that ended up in a thousand pieces. I do want to point out that the Russian 6H8C tubes are quite sturdy, and one of them survived a fall without any damage.....
> But otherwise, I would recommend being careful with these non renewable resources.



Thanks Mordy.

I’m rolling different power, rectifiers, and driver tubes in both amps. I haven’t had an issue dropping tubes as I’m quite careful with where I put it and never have anything close to the edge. 

Usually that area would have much less tubes. Going to be a bit of a mess for a few weeks.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Definitely not a good thing.  The chassis on the OTL can get hot, heck it is a huge heatsink...but if the volume knob is warming up ...well...you know.





whirlwind said:


> Definitely not a good thing.  The chassis on the OTL can get hot, heck it is a huge heatsink...but if the volume knob is warming up ...well...you know.


Hi whirlwind,
Since the GOTL is designed to use a pair of 6336 tubes which draw 10A, I am not worried about using a quad of 6080 tubes, especially since the 6336 is supposed to be a double 6AS7/6080.
I think that Glenn said that the amp should be below 80C. With a quad 6080 I measured around 55-60C, and with my fan on it brought down the temperature to around 45-48C if I remember correctly. I have to add that I use socket savers that act as insulators as well.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> Thanks Mordy.
> 
> I’m rolling different power, rectifiers, and driver tubes in both amps. I haven’t had an issue dropping tubes as I’m quite careful with where I put it and never have anything close to the edge.
> 
> Usually that area would have much less tubes. Going to be a bit of a mess for a few weeks.



"Close to the Edge" - that was a YES album, from decades ago, wasn't it?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi whirlwind,
> Since the GOTL is designed to use a pair of 6336 tubes which draw 10A, I am not worried about using a quad of 6080 tubes, especially since the 6336 is supposed to be a double 6AS7/6080.
> I think that Glenn said that the amp should be below 80C. With a quad 6080 I measured around 55-60C, and with my fan on it brought down the temperature to around 45-48C if I remember correctly. I have to add that I use socket savers that act as insulators as well.



For any who use F instead of C to measure temperature...80 C is 176 F

https://www.rapidtables.com/convert/temperature/celsius-to-fahrenheit.html


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I was just looking at one of my Russian 6H8C's, before I put in the Brimar 13D1.  Do you run your 6H8C very often these days, Mordy?


Hi JV,
They don't see much use in the GOTL. With the Euforia my favorite combination was a pair of 6H8C 1953 Fotons with ribbed anodes and a pair of GEC 6080, but the GOTL is different and other driver tubes sound better in it.
However, you never know if somebody comes up with a new great sounding combination, and for this reason I like to keep all the different tubes. 
As an example, the 6H13C did not impress me in the Euforia, but in the GOTL it sounds very good.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, the 6N7 tubes have a lot of gain.  They work best in the GOTL with low gain powers.
> 
> How does the Fivre 6N7 compare to the NU?
> 
> ...



I'll have to get back to you on this one JV.  Graduate school has started again, so my listening time is taking a MAJOR hit.  I am staring down some 60+ hour weeks right now 

I have a little collection of 6N7s, including the ECC31 which is very nice.  I haven't had much issue with 6N7s and higher gain tubes as long as they aren't super noisy, but there is definitely something wrong with that Fivre 6N7G beyond just your typical noise.

Luckily, I also have a non-shouldered Fivre 6N7GT which is silent.  Tonight or tomorrow I will see if there is a noticeable difference in sound between the Fivre 6N7G and Fivre 6N7GT and then compare to the NU 6N7GT.

If they end up sounding like something you want to try, the 6N7GT is available here for not an insane price:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-6N7GT-...rentrq:d3e5f66616c0aad3319b21d6ffe6b648|iid:1

What I can tell you right off the bat is the Fivre has a larger soundstage than the NU.


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> The Toolshed Darling amp really reminds me of the GOTL. It doesn’t have the tube rolling capabilities but it connects you to the music.


And do not forget its volume goes to 11 (literally!!)


----------



## Zachik

JazzVinyl said:


> The 25v Brimar 13D1 is another tube that appreciates one or two pairs of 2x MU powers.


I think it is one of Glenn's favorites, at least among cheaper tubes.
Unfortunately, when trying to get a couple a little while back - I could not find any!


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> These two are in the house. Funny enough, I find myself enjoying the Toolshed Amp more than the Teton right now. Going to wait for a few more rectifiers to come in and give it a few weeks before I decide what to do next. The Toolshed Darling amp really reminds me of the GOTL. It doesn’t have the tube rolling capabilities but it connects you to the music.



That Toolshed amp looks friggin fantastic! Love the blend of metal and wood...and the volume that goes up to eleven is awesome!


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> And do not forget its volume goes to 11 (literally!!)



I love that little flair on his amp.

I have the GOTL on loan to someone who’s always wanted to hear it. Never thought I’d say this but I miss it already.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 27, 2019)

Zachik said:


> I think it is one of Glenn's favorites, at least among cheaper tubes.
> Unfortunately, when trying to get a couple a little while back - I could not find any!



Langrex UK is the source of these tubes.  It's funny to think of these as cheap since they are the 25V version of the 13D2 and are otherwise identical.  How much does a 13D2 go for you ask?  $250+ per tube.  Gotta be one of the best value propositions in the tube world.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> That Toolshed amp looks friggin fantastic! Love the blend of metal and wood...and the volume that goes up to eleven is awesome!



Here’s a bit more of a close up on his build. Aesthetically it’s just superb. Small amp but with a big sound.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Langrex UK is the source of these tubes.  It's funny to think of these as cheap since they are the 25V version of the 13D2 and are otherwise identical.  How much does a 13D2 go for you ask?  $250+ per tube.  Gotta be one of the best value propositions in the tube world.



Speaking of Langrex, I received a quad of GEC L63s. They sound very similar to the GEC ECC35. It’d hard press to tell them apart and for four it cost around $140. Much cheaper than two ECC35 and way below the price of an ECC32/33.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> They don't see much use in the GOTL. With the Euforia my favorite combination was a pair of 6H8C 1953 Fotons with ribbed anodes and a pair of GEC 6080, but the GOTL is different and other driver tubes sound better in it.
> However, you never know if somebody comes up with a new great sounding combination, and for this reason I like to keep all the different tubes.
> As an example, the 6H13C did not impress me in the Euforia, but in the GOTL it sounds very good.



Agree 250% about the 6H13C in the Glenn, monster good 

I have a driver triplet in: 6H8C and the pair of EL32's (CV 1052)
And 6x 6BL7's as powers

Very nice!  

Tested EL32 only and 6H8C only as drivers, this triplet does enhance each other, they sound alot better better as a triplet than either as 'solo' drivers.

Rich textured mids, and thick "way way down there" bass, and quick/tight controlled treble.  Female vocals love it.

Did I mention that very solid bass??!!

If ya got 'em, try it!!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Agree 250% about the 6H13C in the Glenn, monster good
> 
> I have a driver triplet in: 6H8C and the pair of EL32's (CV 1052)
> And 6x 6BL7's as powers
> ...


I will have to try it


----------



## Deyan

Manly?? Yes. But I like it too.



 

 

 
Not exactly my original idea but still.
The adapter has a gold plated Yamamoto socket, the bottom pins are also gold plated. The wiring inside are pure silver that I've taken out from decommissioned MiG-29 fighter jet. And the thing can be disassembled.
.......annnnd I managed to mess up the paint on the second one so that one will be built tomorrow.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have been pretending that I am UT today - and rolling like a muh...

Another triple that I really like:

Ken Rad 12SN7 BG, with the EL32's in
Quad of 6AS7: 6H13C and 6AS7GTA

4x 6AS7 beats a single pair for deep deep "breathable" bass.

Try it if ya got 'em...


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> These two are in the house. Funny enough, I find myself enjoying the Toolshed Amp more than the Teton right now. Going to wait for a few more rectifiers to come in and give it a few weeks before I decide what to do next. The Toolshed Darling amp really reminds me of the GOTL. It doesn’t have the tube rolling capabilities but it connects you to the music.



Lovely looking amps there Phant. I'm sure they sound great too. Great times in the weeks ahead. It will take a bit of time to appreciate these amps as I discovered with the Studio Six. As I get more time in with the SS, I'm starting to appreciate it's sonic qualities.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Hi whirlwind,
> Since the GOTL is designed to use a pair of 6336 tubes which draw 10A, I am not worried about using a quad of 6080 tubes, especially since the 6336 is supposed to be a double 6AS7/6080.
> I think that Glenn said that the amp should be below 80C. With a quad 6080 I measured around 55-60C, and with my fan on it brought down the temperature to around 45-48C if I remember correctly. I have to add that I use socket savers that act as insulators as well.




Well, Helio reported that the volume control was getting hot....that is just too much heat to heat up the volume pot


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Langrex UK is the source of these tubes.


When contacting them couple months ago, they told me they did not have any Brimar 13D1 tubes!
Might try again...


----------



## UntilThen

Deyan said:


> Manly?? Yes. But I like it too.



Those Yamamoto's sockets are very good. All the sockets in the Studio Six are Yamamoto's sockets or similar - teflon material and the grip is tight and yet so smooth. From the octal to the small pins OB2 tubes to the rectifier, they are just so smooth and precise for the pins to slot in. If you are getting a Glenn custom amp, definitely go with the Yamamoto's sockets.


----------



## whirlwind

Deyan said:


> Manly?? Yes. But I like it too.
> 
> 
> Not exactly my original idea but still.
> ...




This is one expensive adapter


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> Speaking of Langrex, I received a quad of GEC L63s. They sound very similar to the GEC ECC35. It’d hard press to tell them apart and for four it cost around $140. Much cheaper than two ECC35 and way below the price of an ECC32/33.


You got a hell of an exchange rate - Langrex is selling the GEC L63 for 35 GBP / each. So, 140 GBP... ($172 currently)  
(unless they discount on quantity of 4...)


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> When contacting them couple months ago, they told me they did not have any Brimar 13D1 tubes!
> Might try again...



Oof, looks like the well has dried up then!  Too bad, sorry to hear it.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Well, Helio reported that the volume control was getting hot....that is just too much heat to heat up the volume pot



When I ran quad GEC 6080 on the GOTL for 2 hours, I place my hand on the Lundahl transformer. It was throbbing and pulsating and felt hot. Use at your own discretion but I'm staying away from quad 6080 especially for longer listening sessions. 6 x 6BL7 or even 4 x 6as7 on the other hand is much cooler than quad 6080.


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> You got a hell of an exchange rate - Langrex is selling the GEC L63 for 35 GBP / each. So, 140 GBP... ($172 currently)
> (unless they discount on quantity of 4...)



Got them for 30 gpb each or $147.41 total not including shipping. I say that’s a fair deal.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> When I ran quad GEC 6080 on the GOTL for 2 hours, I place my hand on the Lundahl transformer. *It was throbbing and pulsating and felt hot.* Use at your own discretion but I'm staying away from quad 6080 especially for longer listening sessions. 6 x 6BL7 or even 4 x 6as7 on the other hand is much cooler than quad 6080.



That’s what she said!

Yeah... I’m a man-child.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 27, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> When I ran quad GEC 6080 on the GOTL for 2 hours, I place my hand on the Lundahl transformer. It was throbbing and pulsating and felt hot. Use at your own discretion but I'm staying away from quad 6080 especially for longer listening sessions. 6 x 6BL7 or even 4 x 6as7 on the other hand is much cooler than quad 6080.



Earlier today I had a quad of 6080s in for two hours, the tubes themselves were again cooler than when ran as a pair, around 170C for the quad vs 220C as a pair.  The chassis directly next to the tubes was 69C, 33C for the front panel, no heat whatsoever on the knob.  Those temps are fine.  I'll check the Bendix and 7802 tonight and measure the transformer too.


----------



## whirlwind

What power tubes are in the Toolshed amp @Phantaminum


----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> What power tubes are in the Toolshed amp @Phantaminum


 
1626 that look to be only manufactured by RCA but I could be wrong. It really gives off a GOTL vibe and I find it wonderfully sweet. The only complain I have is that there’s a bit of grain on the low end sometimes that comes through which doesn’t on the GOTL. Most of the tubes used in the amp are cheap and easily found.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> 1626 that look to be only manufactured by RCA but I could be wrong. It really gives off a GOTL vibe and I find it wonderfully sweet. The only complain I have is that there’s a bit of grain on the low end sometimes that comes through which doesn’t on the GOTL. Most of the tubes used in the amp are cheap and easily found.




Thanks!


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> 1626 that look to be only manufactured by RCA but I could be wrong. It really gives off a GOTL vibe and I find it wonderfully sweet. The only complain I have is that there’s a bit of grain on the low end sometimes that comes through which doesn’t on the GOTL. Most of the tubes used in the amp are cheap and easily found.




What are the toggle switches toward the back of the amp by the transformer...and I assume you do not know what transformer is used?.....or maybe you do.


----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> What are the toggle switches toward the back of the amp by the transformer...and I assume you do not know what transformer is used?.....or maybe you do.



They select input 1/2 and if you want to go to either XLR or SE out. First time I had an amp with this functionality but it’s neat.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> They select input 1/2 and if you want to go to either XLR or SE out. First time I had an amp with this functionality but it’s neat.




I am assuming this is just for input and the headphone jacks......I am guessing this amp is not in balanced configuration.


----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> I am assuming this is just for input and the headphone jacks......I am guessing this amp is not in balanced configuration.



You’re right, not balanced. Matt said that the way he configured it the balanced out is regarded as more clean sounding.


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> You’re right, not balanced. Matt said that the way he configured it the balanced out is regarded as more clean sounding.




Thanks again.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> You’re right, not balanced. Matt said that the way he configured it the balanced out is regarded as more clean sounding.



Must be my twin.  Beautiful amp. I hope you get to keep it.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> When contacting them couple months ago, they told me they did not have any Brimar 13D1 tubes!
> Might try again...


You can also try Billington in the UK


----------



## Xcalibur255

Deyan said:


> The wiring inside are pure silver that I've taken out from decommissioned MiG-29 fighter jet.



This line made my day.  If this doesn't sell an audiophile on premium wire then nothing will.


----------



## mordy (Aug 27, 2019)

Hi Zachik,
This guy in Brazil has them but way overpriced IMHO:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-13D1-2...210305?hash=item23c13326c1:g:QmEAAOSweYhdKfZw
Has at least 7 of them


----------



## 2359glenn

Langrex has 90 o them You have to go to stock list   page 4

https://www.langrex.co.uk/stocklist/


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> Earlier today I had a quad of 6080s in for two hours, the tubes themselves were again cooler than when ran as a pair, around 170C for the quad vs 220C as a pair.  The chassis directly next to the tubes was 69C, 33C for the front panel, no heat whatsoever on the knob.  Those temps are fine.  I'll check the Bendix and 7802 tonight and measure the transformer too.



Where are you measuring the tubes at? The plates? One of the 7802's was running about 20C more than the other. Hot one was at 120C. The Bendix tubes are way hotter, running at 220C or so. They're up front, so that's probably why my front panel/knob is more than yours. Transformer was only at about 50C.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> Where are you measuring the tubes at? The plates? One of the 7802's was running about 20C more than the other. Hot one was at 120C. The Bendix tubes are way hotter, running at 220C or so. They're up front, so that's probably why my front panel/knob is more than yours. Transformer was only at about 50C.



Yeah I've been measuring right in the middle of plate, the hottest reading I can get.  I dont think I've measured the 7802s in a quad setup yet, but they do run cooler than the 6080s.  I'll check these temps when I get home!


----------



## heliosphann

I'm letting my GOTL cool down and take a break. Listening to my Milo w/Ether 2. The super low distortion is such a jump from the dynamics/tubes. Not necessarily better, but different.


----------



## mordy (Aug 27, 2019)

Hi JV,
Finally got to reluctantly change the K-R 6N7 for the '53 Foton 6H8C, all in the interest of science:




So far sounds good, but I am auditorily (editorially?) overloaded and cannot pronounce any verdicts ATM.
The picture depicts an utopian early sunrise where Russia, Germany and the US coexist peacefully.
Actually sounds great with the HD650.
Make that awesome after a half hour warm-up!
PS: The top right corner of the picture is the answer to the overheating worries......That + Deyan's socket savers and adapters.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 28, 2019)

Okay so with the temperatures plateaued, here's what I have:

Bendix 6080 (front): 240C
Tung-Sol 7802 (back): 130C
Chassis in between tubes: 54C
Transformer: 58C (inner shell, not outer)
Front panel: 36C
Knob: 36C
These temps are pretty good, something to think about though, I do not have a tube rectifier, so that will add some heat to the situation and it is near the front panel.  The knob and front panel do feel a little warm to the touch, but I don't think 36C is anything to worry about.

The Bendix are hot but they are rated for it.  Based on the temperatures I am getting, I think running a quad of 6080s is safe.

Do you see any issue with these temperatures, @2359glenn ?  Is there a max temperature rating for the transformer?


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> You can also try Billington in the UK





2359glenn said:


> Langrex has 90 o them You have to go to stock list   page 4
> 
> https://www.langrex.co.uk/stocklist/



Thanks guys - I have contacted both sellers.


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> Okay so with the temperatures plateaued, here's what I have:
> 
> Bendix 6080 (front): 240C
> Tung-Sol 7802 (back): 130C
> ...



Super similar to the readings I took, in pretty much all those areas.


----------



## mordy

heliosphann said:


> Super similar to the readings I took, in pretty much all those areas.


Same here - around 3C lower, but I have the AC on and the room is cool.
However, turning on my 4" fan above the amp, drawing heat away from it (not blowing on it), the temperatures on the chassis are lowered by at least 10C - less than 42C between the tubes.


----------



## mordy

And I am mesmerized by the sound now with the Foton 6SN7 equivalent. The presentation is laid back, mellow, and really great detail and punch in the bass with a wide sound stage.
I have a feeling that Glenn would like this sound.....


----------



## UntilThen

A year or more ago I wrote to Langrex asking for Brimar 13D1. A few days later they replied. No more stock ! Then a few days later again... they replied. We have stock. How many do you need? I said only 2. So I bought a pair. 

I have one left and I gave the other to Monster when he bought my pair of GEC 6as7g. The Brimar 13D1 is $10 each. The pair of GEC 6as7g is $500. Little did he know that combination is the bringer of mars, wars, jupiters and meteorites.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 28, 2019)

For anyone interested in 6J5 tubes, there is quite a good deal here, quad of Italian Sicte 6J5GT for €40 plus shipping or Best Offer.

While they are all different rebrands, construction is the same and they are all definitely Sicte, identical to my pair.  These are not common.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-6J5-GT-...rentrq:d832a51816c0ad4a6ba34705ffe49ec9|iid:1


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 28, 2019)

Have I mentioned that I like 6J5 tubes?

I'm considering an experiment.  My theory is that having the triodes in separate tubes is what accounts for the increased separation and soundstage of the 6J5s over the 6SN7s.

Deyan has a pair of 6SN7 to 6J5 adapters on eBay, each adapter from the pair uses a single triode section of a 6SN7 with the 6J5 pinout.  So, I could take my matched pairs of 6SN7s and run them each with a single triode in my 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter and see if the increased staging is there relative to running a single tube with both triodes.  Pairs I have to test would be Brimar CV1988, RFT 6SN7, Sylvania 6SN7W metal base, along with a few others.

I think it could be an interesting little experiment!  Not to mention if my theory is true, I could squeeze a little more performance out of my 6SN7 pairs 

Also, each adapter uses the opposite triode, so you can switch them back and forth to make sure the sections stay matched in each 6SN7.


----------



## rosgr63

Prolonged running a single section of double triode will damage the tube eventually.


----------



## mordy

rosgr63 said:


> Prolonged running a single section of double triode will damage the tube eventually.


Cathode poisoning?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

rosgr63 said:


> Prolonged running a single section of double triode will damage the tube eventually.



Thanks, Stavros, I may scrap the idea then.  If curiosity takes hold, I would only do it long enough to confirm or deny my theory.


----------



## rosgr63

If you just run them for up to 100 hours say it might not be a problem.


----------



## Deyan

rosgr63 said:


> Prolonged running a single section of double triode will damage the tube eventually.



That's why one adapter uses one triode the other one the other. So you swap the adapters from time to time


----------



## rosgr63

Feliks Audio use two 6SN7 drivers because they cross connect the sections.

If one forgets to swap the tubes they will damage them, why risk it? 

Then again what do I know, I best drop the subject.


----------



## mordy (Aug 28, 2019)

Excellent question, and it deserves an answer.
In the beginning of my tube journey I had a Little Dot MKIII. After using a pair of 6N6P power tubes for 18 months, I realized that one section in each one sounded much worse than the other - could this be the same thing you are describing?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 28, 2019)

My Tung-Sol power sextet has assembled, 6J5G with a quad of 7802.  Nothing more satisfying then getting a great sounding pair of tubes that are also in great condition and quiet.




For comparison, I have both the Tung-Sol BGRP as well as the ladder-plate 6SN7GT.  I hear no difference in sound between these two 6SN7s.



Hopefully you can see from my photo that the 6J5G has the same ladder-style plates as the 6SN7GT.

 

So, does splitting the triodes result in a super Tung-Sol BGRP?  I would say yes, it does.  The same pattern holds as with other 6J5s: same tonality, but better staging and separation, leading to better detail retrieval.  I'm going to throw it out there that it is maybe around a 15-20% improvement in these areas.

I have not heard them, but you can probably get the same benefit with a pair of Tung-Sol 6J5GT or 12J5GT tubes that maintain the same plate construction, but with a different glass envelope (straight bottle).  The value proposition has the potential to be huge, since you can get a pair of 6J5GT tubes for around $40-50 and a pair of 12J5GT tubes for $30.  Better sound than the BGRP for 1/3-1/4 the price plus the cost of an adapter.

I've had this pair of 6J5GT my radar for a long time, they have been listed for a while, you could probably offer $40 to the seller: https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-MATCHED-...652009?hash=item364cad2e69:g:j00AAOSwPVpcy4aE

Edit: someone grabbed the above listing, let us know what you think 

And then there is this 12J5GT listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-J...123600?hash=item51e5e1ae10:g:hfgAAOxyTyBSXaSh

The seller of the 12J5GT does not have unboxed photos, but I believe they are the construction below, which has the same internals as the 6J5G (shouldered).



Okay, that will be all for my 6J5 ranting today, happy listening ya'll


----------



## rnros

Deyan said:


> Manly?? Yes. But I like it too.
> 
> 
> Not exactly my original idea but still.
> ...



Thanks, Deyan. They look great. Look better than the last pair you made for me! 

Appreciate the extra effort required to accommodate the Yamamoto socket.


----------



## Xcalibur255

You guys are starting to pique my curiosity with this whole 6J5 thing.  I have read in other places that getting each triode section into a different piece of glass has benefits.  Mostly I suspect it eliminates cross-talk interference between channels.  For amps that use two 6SN7 tubes the question really comes down to implementation.  Some amps only use one triode section and leave the other one unused, which is pretty silly, where as others parallel both sections together to make for a driver that's a got a bit more oomph to drive a demanding output tube.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Mostly I suspect it eliminates cross-talk interference between channels.



This is my suspicion as well, it makes the most logical sense.



Xcalibur255 said:


> For amps that use two 6SN7 tubes the question really comes down to implementation.



@leftside first introduced me to the 6J5 and I believe he has an amp that uses two per channel, he may be able to speak to if there is a benefit over the 6SN7 in this type of topology.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> This is my suspicion as well, it makes the most logical sense.



I say the conclusion that you get 20% better detail and separation is valid only is the comparison is conducted via a true blind test.

What you 'think' you know, always taints your perception.  

LG, do you have a trusted friend who can help you conduct a blind 6SN7 vs 2x 6J5 test?


----------



## heliosphann

New tube day!

Got my NOS 2nd pair of 6080 GECs (warming up as I type this) along with a NOS Raytheon 5CU4 and a NOS Tung Sol 5V3.

Also got a NOS GE 1641, but man it's rough looking. I don't have an adapter yet though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> Finally got to reluctantly change the K-R 6N7 for the '53 Foton 6H8C, all in the interest of science:
> 
> So far sounds good, but I am auditorily (editorially?) overloaded and cannot pronounce any verdicts ATM.
> ...



Yes, good man with the fan, Mordy!  You did not suffer the FA 'heat mgmt' problems that I had (back in the day)...cause you had that fan, from day one 

Still Liking the Foton in this combo, today?

Cheers!


----------



## heliosphann

heliosphann said:


> New tube day!
> 
> Got my NOS 2nd pair of 6080 GECs (warming up as I type this) along with a NOS Raytheon 5CU4 and a NOS Tung Sol 5V3.
> 
> Also got a NOS GE 1641, but man it's rough looking. I don't have an adapter yet though.



Oh yea, those GEC's are really stinking up the room! Funny, I remember something similar happening when I used my first pair a long time ago in my WA2.


----------



## Monsterzero

I gave my 6BX7s a good cleaning today and rolled in a quad,dropped the Kenrad VT231 in...That bass on the Auteur! Great holographic staging too. Allowing the GOTL to cool down and will drop in the other two 6BX7s and see if thats too much.
Downside,is its not a black background when music isnt playing,but the dynamics with music going is hard to ignore.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> I gave my 6BX7s a good cleaning today and rolled in a quad,dropped the Kenrad VT231 in...That bass on the Auteur! Great holographic staging too. Allowing the GOTL to cool down and will drop in the other two 6BX7s and see if thats too much.
> Downside,is its not a black background when music isnt playing,but the dynamics with music going is hard to ignore.



Dude, that's crazy. I just rolled in a KR VT231 like 5 minutes ago. Got the Quad GEC 6080's rollin'!

Although the 7802's will go back in shortly. Gotta maximize my time with them. lol


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> Oh yea, those GEC's are really stinking up the room! Funny, I remember something similar happening when I used my first pair a long time ago in my WA2.



Yeah, no worries...sometimes that happens for a few days, it will eventually leave....it can be a bit annoying though


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 28, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> I say the conclusion that you get 20% better detail and separation is valid only is the comparison is conducted via a true blind test.
> 
> What you 'think' you know, always taints your perception.
> 
> LG, do you have a trusted friend who can help you conduct a blind 6SN7 vs 2x 6J5 test?



What you are describing is called confirmation bias.  If I expect the tube to sound better, it will sound better.  I am not one to discount that as a possibility when doing any listening comparison.  You are talking to a guy who uses a $200 DAC because he hears no difference between it and more expensive ones 

In theory I could do a blinded test with the help of my trusted lab assistant, although free time is something I am very short on for the next 4 months.  I am confident I could pick them out blinded, which is no small thing for me to say.  Ordinarily I would never make such a bold claim, especially involving what is considered to be one of the best driver tubes ever made, but the difference is not subtle and others have described the same phenomenon independent of me.  I only offered a percentage so someone wouldn't expect it to be the equivalent of going from Beats by Dre to the HD800 

Here is what I can say as far as being blinded goes: I came to the conclusion that 6J5s have a staging/separation/detail advantage over 6SN7s prior to reading the same described by other listeners.  I did not expect it when I bought my first few pairs.

But I am just one person, so YMMV!  I will try to do a blind test, for science.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> What you are describing is called confirmation bias.  If I expect the tube to sound better, it will sound better.  I am not one to discount that as a possibility when doing any listening comparison.  You are talking to a guy who uses a $200 DAC because he hears no difference between it and more expensive ones
> 
> In theory I could do a blinded test with the help of my trusted lab assistant, although free time is something I am very short on for the next 4 months.  I am confident I could pick them out blinded, which is no small thing for me to say.  Ordinarily I would never make such a bold claim, especially involving what is considered to be one of the best driver tubes ever made, but the difference is not subtle and others have described the same phenomenon independent of me.  I only offered a percentage so someone wouldn't expect it to be the equivalent of going from Beats by Dre to the HD800
> 
> ...



Good man, LG...

You fully appreciate the blind test procedure and value it's worth.

Hear ya on the DAC situation.  I thought that too...until I went to a dual mono DAC in full balanced mode.  Now I hear things that I never imagined were present in the one's and zero's that I owned for decades.  I am talking tiny details that simply are not there at all via single ended DAC's I owned previously, and considered "very good".   So I am now a "DAC believer"...recent advances in DAC's have been the biggest improvement to digital since the industry forced it down our throats in 1982.

BTW, I attended a meet a few years ago where we did a blind test of the "human waste" company DAC's...the cheapest VS the most expensive.  A majority could not repeatedly identify the more expensive DAC.  There was a difference, but it was very very tiny, indeed.  The owner of the expensive DAC could identify his DAC 100% - but only on a certain classical music passage.  Other genre's he chose the least expensive DAC as sounding the best.

But, that wasn't 'fully  balanced'.  Balanced - it's a whole new, and very exciting ballgame.

Cheers!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think the science behind DBT and other such things is fascinating, particularly the psychology behind how our subconscious minds work to distort our perception of things.  Over the years I've come to believe two things about this hobby:

1)  The hows and whys behind what you hear don't necessarily matter.  If whatever it is causes a positive or negative change in your enjoyment of it then it's worthy of attention.  Whether or not it's measurable or just in your head.  The effect and impact on you is real so there is a "realness" to whatever you are hearing even if science says it's all in your head.

2)  The only listening impressions that matter at all and can be trusted are the ones that have been built over a long period of time.  I mean leaving everything unchanged for 3-6 months or more.  Your subconscious just seems to "know" in a way you can trust when you deviate from this norm once it is this well established.  Likewise everytime I've determined that something is off or wrong it has grown out of this feeling of something just feeling "off" that builds and builds until it's impossible to ignore.  Without a strong established norm I don't think this could happen.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Xcalibur255 said:


> I think the science behind DBT and other such things is fascinating, particularly the psychology behind how our subconscious minds work to distort our perception of things.  Over the years I've come to believe two things about this hobby:
> 
> 1)  The hows and whys behind what you hear don't necessarily matter.  If whatever it is causes a positive or negative change in your enjoyment of it then it's worthy of attention.  Whether or not it's measurable or just in your head.  The effect and impact on you is real so there is a "realness" to whatever you are hearing even if science says it's all in your head.
> 
> 2)  The only listening impressions that matter at all and can be trusted are the ones that have been built over a long period of time.  I mean leaving everything unchanged for 3-6 months or more.  Your subconscious just seems to "know" in a way you can trust when you deviate from this norm once it is this well established.  Likewise everytime I've determined that something is off or wrong it has grown out of this feeling of something just feeling "off" that builds and builds until it's impossible to ignore.  Without a strong established norm I don't think this could happen.




Well stated XC...

Reminds me of my youth, I would buy the best pair of speakers I could afford.  Listen to them for years and years, they would became my 'standard of excellence'.  

Then, I would eventually buy a better pair of speakers and compare to the old and think..."how the heck did I listen to those for years"?!

Repeat, several times.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> What you are describing is called confirmation bias.  If I expect the tube to sound better, it will sound better.  I am not one to discount that as a possibility when doing any listening comparison.  You are talking to a guy who uses a $200 DAC because he hears no difference between it and more expensive ones
> 
> In theory I could do a blinded test with the help of my trusted lab assistant, although free time is something I am very short on for the next 4 months.  I am confident I could pick them out blinded, which is no small thing for me to say.  Ordinarily I would never make such a bold claim, especially involving what is considered to be one of the best driver tubes ever made, but the difference is not subtle and others have described the same phenomenon independent of me.  I only offered a percentage so someone wouldn't expect it to be the equivalent of going from Beats by Dre to the HD800
> 
> ...


For the blind test, you can try these. 

Yes, I did post these before.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> I think the science behind DBT and other such things is fascinating, particularly the psychology behind how our subconscious minds work to distort our perception of things.  Over the years I've come to believe two things about this hobby:
> 
> 1)  The hows and whys behind what you hear don't necessarily matter.  If whatever it is causes a positive or negative change in your enjoyment of it then it's worthy of attention.  Whether or not it's measurable or just in your head.  The effect and impact on you is real so there is a "realness" to whatever you are hearing even if science says it's all in your head.
> 
> 2)  The only listening impressions that matter at all and can be trusted are the ones that have been built over a long period of time.  I mean leaving everything unchanged for 3-6 months or more.  Your subconscious just seems to "know" in a way you can trust when you deviate from this norm once it is this well established.  Likewise everytime I've determined that something is off or wrong it has grown out of this feeling of something just feeling "off" that builds and builds until it's impossible to ignore.  Without a strong established norm I don't think this could happen.


Hi X255,
Yes, I agree with you. There is this subconscious component to listening - either it sounds right or there is something niggling that you cannot pinpoint, but you know it is there. And this process takes time - don't know if it as much as 3-6 months in my case, but it does take time.
Many times you fall in love with a new sound only to discover that it becomes grating after a while.
At the same time I recognize that there may be people who can tell right away and stay with that impression; we are all different. 
At times I am listening to my equipment, and at times to the music; sometimes both come together in a wow moment.....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> Good man, LG...
> 
> You fully appreciate the blind test procedure and value it's worth.
> 
> ...



Interesting results from your meet!  I have read similar findings elsewhere.  I am revisiting the path of becoming a "DAC believer", but cannot say whether or not I will be converted.  Do you find that using a fully balanced DAC with an unbalanced amplifier like the GOTL maintains the benefits?



attmci said:


> For the blind test, you can try these.
> 
> Yes, I did post these before.



Hey attmci - I think part of your message might be missing, I do not see what I should be using for the blind test!


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> For the blind test, you can try these.
> 
> Yes, I did post these before.



It takes all kinds, Dad used to say  


L0rdGwyn said:


> Interesting results from your meet!  I have read similar findings elsewhere.  I am revisiting the path of becoming a "DAC believer", but cannot say whether or not I will be converted.  Do you find that using a fully balanced DAC with an unbalanced amplifier like the GOTL maintains the benefits?
> 
> 
> 
> Hey attmci - I think part of your message might be missing, I do not see what I should be using for the blind test!



I think attmci thinks that was humor...can't see it...blind...

And no, the balanced magic requires a balanced amp.

Cheers!


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Interesting results from your meet!  I have read similar findings elsewhere.  I am revisiting the path of becoming a "DAC believer", but cannot say whether or not I will be converted.  Do you find that using a fully balanced DAC with an unbalanced amplifier like the GOTL maintains the benefits?
> 
> 
> 
> Hey attmci - I think part of your message might be missing, I do not see what I should be using for the blind test!


Sorry  man.

Here is the link:

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality


----------



## attmci

JazzVinyl said:


> It takes all kinds, Dad used to say
> 
> 
> I think attmci thinks that was humor...can't see it...blind...
> ...


Sorry......

I like to use the test to challenge myself.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> Sorry  man.
> 
> Here is the link:
> 
> https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality



Thanks!  I'll give these a go and see if I can incorporate them into my test.  My girlfrie - erhm I mean, my lab assistant will be thrilled.


----------



## mordy

Took a cursory test and failed miserably! I protest! 
Is this test made for 20 year old ears or 70+ ears??


----------



## attmci (Aug 28, 2019)

mordy said:


> Took a cursory test and failed miserably! I protest!
> Is this test made for 20 year old ears or 70+ ears??


LOL

It depends. Some digital interface and DAC plus AMP make the MP3 sounds so good.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Took a cursory test and failed miserably! I protest!
> Is this test made for 20 year old ears or 70+ ears??



It is just audiophool fodder.

Can you imagine the number of people who have listened on that site via their $2 earbuds via their computer's $2' dac?

And come to the conclusion that audiophiles are fools?

Not what I meant when I suggested conducting a blind test.


----------



## attmci (Aug 28, 2019)

I don't aware anyone is using cheap equipment here. If one cannot pass these simple tests, I will have trouble to trust his/her recommendations.

BTW, I had tried my best not to recommend anything here.

TTFN.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> I don't aware anyone is using cheap equipment here. If one cannot pass these simple tests, I will have trouble to trust his/her recommendations.
> 
> BTW, I had tried my best not to recommend anything here.
> 
> TTFN.



But the source fed to you is unknown!


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> I don't aware anyone is using cheap equipment here. If one cannot pass these simple tests, I will have trouble to trust his/her recommendations.
> 
> BTW, I had tried my best not to recommend anything here.
> 
> TTFN.


All right, attmci, I see that I have to take this much more seriously to win your confidence - really just listened a few seconds to the same track three times and not the whole track; not really my kind of taste in music either.....
We'll figure it out......


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 29, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Have I mentioned that I like 6J5 tubes?
> 
> I'm considering an experiment.  My theory is that having the triodes in separate tubes is what accounts for the increased separation and soundstage of the 6J5s over the 6SN7s.
> 
> ...





Xcalibur255 said:


> You guys are starting to pique my curiosity with this whole 6J5 thing.  I have read in other places that getting each triode section into a different piece of glass has benefits.  Mostly I suspect it eliminates cross-talk interference between channels.  For amps that use two 6SN7 tubes the question really comes down to implementation.  Some amps only use one triode section and leave the other one unused, which is pretty silly, where as others parallel both sections together to make for a driver that's a got a bit more oomph to drive a demanding output tube.


Exactly folks, that's what I had felt it was too. The two isolated triodes of two 6J5 can enhance instrument separation vs. two triodes in the same 6SN7 tube - possibly from less cross talk. I also think the larger soundstage may have something to do with double the bottle size when using two, and especially the ST-shaped ones seem to yield an even bigger soundstage. (this was all based off previous amps).

Also @JazzVinyl I agree with you there's nothing wrong with Chinese adapters. They make some extremely solid adapters for example the simple 6SN7 to 6N7 adapters. But IMO their circuit quality takes a step back when it comes to their more complex adapters such as their 6SN7 to dual 6J5 adapters, which you can see uses very thin wires. Not guaranteeing an audible difference will be heard, but I'll be getting one of @Deyan's 6SN7 to dual 6J5 adapters (among others) to compare after getting my amp. I'm very much looking forward to it Glenn!


----------



## OctavianH

attmci said:


> Sorry  man.
> 
> Here is the link:
> 
> https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality



I've recognized easily 5/6 , exception was Coldplay where I chose the 320kbps MP3. However, I guess this can be easily tricked by chossing the file which has the biggest delay until starting. Normally the uncompressed WAV is much bigger than the 128kbps or 320kbps MP3 so the caching process might take longer.


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> I think the science behind DBT and other such things is fascinating, particularly the psychology behind how our subconscious minds work to distort our perception of things.  Over the years I've come to believe two things about this hobby:
> 
> 1)  The hows and whys behind what you hear don't necessarily matter.  If whatever it is causes a positive or negative change in your enjoyment of it then it's worthy of attention.  Whether or not it's measurable or just in your head.  The effect and impact on you is real so there is a "realness" to whatever you are hearing even if science says it's all in your head.
> 
> 2)  The only listening impressions that matter at all and can be trusted are the ones that have been built over a long period of time.  I mean leaving everything unchanged for 3-6 months or more.  Your subconscious just seems to "know" in a way you can trust when you deviate from this norm once it is this well established.  Likewise everytime I've determined that something is off or wrong it has grown out of this feeling of something just feeling "off" that builds and builds until it's impossible to ignore.  Without a strong established norm I don't think this could happen.




Great post.


----------



## UntilThen

GOTL is still amazing despite the arrival of Studio Six. The black 6sn7gt in it now was given to me by the seller of the Studio Six. I thought it was a Ken Rad 6sn7gt but when I look at it again, the engraved wording at the base says Brimar BVA 6sn7gt. Looks exactly like this tube. https://tubedatabase.co/tubes/brimar-6sn7gt-black-glass

So is it a Ken Rad, Tung Sol or Brimar black glass? I have no clue but it sure sound lovely. As good as my Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp and Ken Rad 6sn7gt. What do you think @gibosi  ?


----------



## UntilThen

Just saw Stavros sold off his collection of Brimar 6sn7gt, including one black glass but that had the wording printed on the glass whereas mine had the wording etched in the base. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-brimar-6sn7-cv1988-used.911173/

What an amazing collection of tubes you have Stavros.


----------



## JazzVinyl

OctavianH said:


> I've recognized easily 5/6 , exception was Coldplay where I chose the 320kbps MP3. However, I guess this can be easily tricked by chossing the file which has the biggest delay until starting. Normally the uncompressed WAV is much bigger than the 128kbps or 320kbps MP3 so the caching process might take longer.



The context of that NPR site was to prove "you cannot hear the difference between MP3 and Lossless"

You get what they intended, via unknown quality feeds.


----------



## OctavianH

Well, in my case they failed. For me it is an audible difference between MP3 and FLAC. More than this, I find some differences between different FLAC encodings. For example yesterday I had to re-enconde via dbPowerAmp my Demons & Wizards remasters. Hard to say why, the same File encoded by EAC or dbPowerAmp has different size and for me the latest sounds better. With that ocassion I was again impressed by the incredible artwork:






We loose a lot with streaming services or digital media. Nothing pleases better than the good old CD booklets.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> So is it a Ken Rad, Tung Sol or Brimar black glass?



From what I can see in your picture I am quite sure it is a Brimar. And yes, it's a great tube.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> From what I can see in your picture I am quite sure it is a Brimar. And yes, it's a great tube.



Thanks. I had no idea Brimar makes 6sn7gt. This was given to me free. There's no noise and sounds great. 

I check ebay and there's one for sale at US$390 and it's not even fully black. 
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BRIMAR-...m1eebff71b8:g:ezcAAOSwBG1cybW-&frcectupt=true


----------



## rosgr63

UntilThen said:


> Just saw Stavros sold off his collection of Brimar 6sn7gt, including one black glass but that had the wording printed on the glass whereas mine had the wording etched in the base.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-brimar-6sn7-cv1988-used.911173/
> 
> What an amazing collection of tubes you have Stavros.



Thanks very much for your kind words Matt.

I do have more in case of interest.
It just takes long to list them all.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Thanks. I had no idea Brimar makes 6sn7gt. This was given to me free. There's no noise and sounds great.
> 
> I check ebay and there's one for sale at US$390 and it's not even fully black.
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BRIMAR-...m1eebff71b8:g:ezcAAOSwBG1cybW-&frcectupt=true



There were several versions of the Brimar 6SN7GT.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-6sn7-identification-guide.209782/   (Scroll down a bit more than halfway to the section on European 6SN7)

Those with black glass were the earliest and heat radiators extending above the top mica is another distinguishing feature. Even though I would describe the one you found on eBay as having smoked glass, you can clearly see the heat radiators, so it is an early one. Later tubes, with clear glass, didn't have those heat radiators.


----------



## rosgr63

gibosi said:


> There were several versions of the Brimar 6SN7GT.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-6sn7-identification-guide.209782/   (Scroll down a bit more than halfway to the section on European 6SN7)
> 
> Those with black glass were the earliest and heat radiators extending above the top mica is another distinguishing feature. Even though I would describe the one you found on eBay as having smoked glass, you can clearly see the heat radiators, so it is an early one. Later tubes, with clear glass, didn't have those heat radiators.




Actually Ken some clear glass Brimar have the heat radiators.

BTW they are not heat radiators but tensioners.


----------



## mordy

rosgr63 said:


> Actually Ken some clear glass Brimar have the heat radiators.
> 
> BTW they are not heat radiators but tensioners.


What is the purpose of the tensioners? Improving microphonics?


----------



## Xcalibur255

That Studio Six seems like a nice amp.  I've always been curious about how the 6V6 tube sounds in a single ended implementation.


----------



## gibosi

rosgr63 said:


> BTW they are not heat radiators but tensioners.



It's difficult to clearly see these structures on tubes with black glass. But now that I see them installed in a clear-glass tube, I would agree.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Ken and Stavros. I am getting an education in Brimar 6sn7. They certainly look like choice tubes. That Brimar 6sn7gty brown base I have never seen before.


----------



## rosgr63

gibosi said:


> It's difficult to clearly see these structures on tubes with black glass. But now that I see them installed in a clear-glass tube, I would agree.



Bruno my French tube mentor thought me this after many heated arguments


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 29, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> That Studio Six seems like a nice amp.  I've always been curious about how the 6V6 tube sounds in a single ended implementation.



It is a very nice amp in the flesh. The quality of construction is very evident from the chassis to the sockets and smooth turning control knobs. It's the quietness of the amp and the over all tone that is even more impressive. Although rated at max 1watt, it can drive up to 4 full size headphones (planars included) with no drop in gain and fidelity.

This is the first time I'm exposed to 6v6 tubes. It sounds tight and fast unlike the Takatsuki 300b that I heard in the Woo WA5 which have a lot more bloom. However they are totally different amps and it's not a straight comparison of tubes. The 6v6gt sounded more linear, neutral with a very lively attack whereas the Fivre 6v6g coke bottle has a lot more body and lusher. However my Fivre 6v6g is new out of the box. Who knows it might tighten up with burn in.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> There were several versions of the Brimar 6SN7GT.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-6sn7-identification-guide.209782/   (Scroll down a bit more than halfway to the section on European 6SN7)
> 
> Those with black glass were the earliest and heat radiators extending above the top mica is another distinguishing feature. Even though I would describe the one you found on eBay as having smoked glass, you can clearly see the heat radiators, so it is an early one. Later tubes, with clear glass, didn't have those heat radiators.



Now I know what Brimar means. 

_Brimar stood for ‘BRItish Made American Range’_


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Now I know what Brimar means.
> 
> _Brimar stood for ‘BRItish Made American Range’_



Here is another opinion from Wikipedia:
British Manufactured American Radio" (valves)


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Here is another opinion from Wikipedia:
> British Manufactured American Radio" (valves)



Yet another interpretation. I thought Brimar is just a nice sounding name like Bruno.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Here is another opinion from Wikipedia:
> British Manufactured American Radio" (valves)



I was told it was _British Mayonnaise American Relish_, but I've been wrong before.


----------



## mordy

Test your knowledge:
What does the tube manufacturer name *TeKaDe* stand for?


----------



## Deyan

mordy said:


> Test your knowledge:
> What does the tube manufacturer name *TeKaDe* stand for?


Telefon-Apparate- Kabel- und Drahtwerke


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Waking up now from a dreaded night shift with a half functioning brain, I will roll the tube du jour to save myself from making a choice, Brimar.  GOTL, bring me back to life!


----------



## mordy

Deyan said:


> Telefon-Apparate- Kabel- und Drahtwerke


Excellent!




Here is a link to a long but fascinating article about German tubes (including TeKaDe that made tubes for Telefunken) if you get tired of Harry Potter....
https://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/hellschreiber-tubes.htm#tekade


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Waking up now from a dreaded night shift with a half functioning brain, I will roll the tube du jour to save myself from making a choice, Brimar.  GOTL, bring me back to life!



Nice collection of drivers. I have heard the Brimar 6sn7gty CY1988 black glass before but as a pair in Woo Wa5LE. It was branded as Mullard.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Nice collection of drivers. I have heard the Brimar 6sn7gty CY1988 black glass before but as a pair in Woo Wa5LE. It was branded as Mullard.



Well that's a pretty amp.  They are nice tubes, similar to the 13D1 in sound I would say, no surprise there.  A member on a different forum who had done distortion measurements of many of the most popular 6SN7s told me the CV1988 had the lowest measured distortion of them all.  I thought that was an interesting little anecdote.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 29, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Waking up now from a dreaded night shift with a half functioning brain, I will roll the tube du jour to save myself from making a choice, Brimar.  GOTL, bring me back to life!




Great trio of tubes right there!

The Brimar 13D1 is a heck of a driver tube if you can find it for a good price...the beauty of the 25 Volt Switch


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> What an amazing collection of tubes you have Stavros.



You have no idea!!!!     I got a Woodie after Stavros showed me his Raytheon VT52 box plate new in box pair.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 29, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Great trio of tubes right there!
> 
> The Brimar 13D1 is a heck of a driver tube if you can find it for a good price...the beauty of the 25 Volt Switch



Definitely one of the greatest features of the amp!  For anyone new to the GOTL, these are the three 25V drivers that can be used.  All are fantastic and lean warm to my ears.

I would say in terms of increasing warmth for me, they go Brimar 13D1 < RCA 1633 < Ken-Rad 1633.  The low end on the Ken-Rad is very satisfying, but I think the 13D1 is still my favorite.

Is anyone aware of any other 1633 makes?


----------



## heliosphann (Aug 29, 2019)

This Raytheon 5CU4 is a pretty sweet rectifier. Love how you can see the filaments above the top mica.





Here's the 5CU4 with some Quad GEC 6080 action:


----------



## JazzVinyl

heliosphann said:


> This Raytheon 5CU4 is a pretty sweet rectifier. Love how you can see the filaments above the top mica.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the 5CU4 with some Quad GEC 6080 action:



Light show city!  Very well photographed!


----------



## attmci

heliosphann said:


> This Raytheon 5CU4 is a pretty sweet rectifier. Love how you can see the filaments above the top mica.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the 5CU4 with some Quad GEC 6080 action:



Nice pictures!!

I recall you have tons of cans.

I wonder if you can drive the Abyss 1266 phi whatever with the GOTL?


----------



## heliosphann

attmci said:


> Nice pictures!!
> 
> I recall you have tons of cans.
> 
> I wonder if you can drive the Abyss 1266 phi whatever with the GOTL?



I have the original Abyss 1266. Haven't tried it with the GOTL yet. Maybe I'll throw in some 6336's and give it a go.


----------



## attmci

heliosphann said:


> I have the original Abyss 1266. Haven't tried it with the GOTL yet. Maybe I'll throw in some 6336's and give it a go.


Begin with 6as7g, follow by 7236/5998, then 421A, and finally the 6336. Use high-gain drivers as well. That will be a wonderful test of the power of GOTL.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> I have the original Abyss 1266. Haven't tried it with the GOTL yet. Maybe I'll throw in some 6336's and give it a go.



No knock on the GOTL,but I would seriously shocked if it can rock the Abyss.


----------



## Monsterzero

Is this a legit Telefunken 6080? Very cheap.


----------



## mordy

Made by GE:
*6080 TELEFUNKEN GE NOS VALVE/TUBE*
6080 TELEFUNKEN/GE

BOXED AND BRANDED BY TFK

MADE BY GE


----------



## Monsterzero

@heliosphann are these the same funkens you have?


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Is this a legit Telefunken 6080? Very cheap.



I know there were fakes of that tube. Lemme try and find the article.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You have no idea!!!!     I got a Woodie after Stavros showed me his Raytheon VT52 box plate new in box pair.



What’s a Woodie ?


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> @heliosphann are these the same funkens you have?



https://jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/index.htm


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 29, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> What’s a Woodie ?



That's the name of Glenn's wooden amp, duh.  He must've brought it with him to Greece.



Monsterzero said:


> Is this a legit Telefunken 6080? Very cheap.



The tubes in this listing are the real deal.  Not cheap though, but you can see the construction.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/312729590457


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> That's the name of Glenn's wooden amp, duh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep. EXACTLY like mine.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> https://jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/index.htm


 Interesting read. Oh well,the real ones are too pricey for me at the moment.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Interesting read. Oh well,the real ones are too pricey for me at the moment.


From what I have read (never heard these tubes) the TFK 6080 tubes are not special sounding.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> From what I have read (never heard these tubes) the TFK 6080 tubes are not special sounding.



Helio picked up a pair of RCA 6080s on my rec for extra depth on the Verite. Being warm sounding already,the RCAs dont really match that well with the Verite by themselves. He tried a combo of RCA/Telefunken 6080s and reported very positive results,hence my looking for a pair.


----------



## mordy

Synergy is a different ball game. I have had very good results mixing Bendix and RCA 6080 tubes.
My guess is that few amps can handle four 2.5A tubes so we are breaking new ground....


----------



## heliosphann

Yea, the Telefunken's aren't really that special by themselves. They do pair nicely with with warmer headphones though as they do have great top end and airiness to them.

But yea, really nice synergy with the RCA and Bendix 6080's.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> That's the name of Glenn's wooden amp, duh. He must've brought it with him to Greece.



I should call mine Skippy?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> What’s a Woodie ?



I guess it's an American saying!


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> What’s a Woodie ?




Ha!  You know.........like "morning wood"


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I guess it's an American saying!



LOL I'm so innocent I didn't know what it means then I google it and I almost died laughing.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Ha!  You know.........like "morning wood"



LOL morning wood.


----------



## UntilThen

Well back in Sydney for the weekend and Father's Day on Sunday !  All I have here is HD650 and Burson Audio Play. How sad !


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I should call mine Skippy?



or Johnson.

Anyway, back to amps and tubes


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I wonder if you can drive the Abyss 1266 phi whatever with the GOTL?



Abyss 1266 phi is a difficult headphone to drive. At the 2017 local audio meet, I had a session with the Abyss on my Ragnarok and it was ok. Rag was powerful enough to drive it. @Sound Trooper reported that his Abyss was well driven by his GEL3N. In the Studio Six thread, reports were mixed as to whether the Six drove the Abyss well, even though the designer says the Six drove his HE6 very well. 

If I had the Abyss, I will drive it with the Sansui au alpha 907mr, which in a strange twist of fate, is returning to me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> or Johnson.
> 
> Anyway, back to amps and tubes



Very green, this image.  Wrong WB?


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> LOL morning wood.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 30, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Very green, this image.  Wrong WB?



No, that is my photography light, AKA the green glow of Foobar2000 dynamic range waveform on my computer monitor  in darker photos, in makes for a nice effect, the juxtaposition of green from Foobar, orange from the tubes, and blue light from the GOTL LED.  Probably too much green during daylight.


----------



## jmac1516 (Aug 30, 2019)

Starting to get excited.  After many months of patiently waiting, Glenn says my GOTL build is nearing completion!!

Now need to continue building my tube inventory which is fairly lean. Forum members here have been extremely helpful in guiding tube targets including some of you that have answered PMs, so thank you!  Also interested in another headphone.  A ZMF visit may be in order as their operation is not too far from where I live.


----------



## Phantaminum

jmac1516 said:


> Starting to get excited.  After many months of patiently waiting, Glenn says my GOTL build is nearing completion!!
> 
> Now need to continue building my tube inventory which is fairly lean. Forum members here have been extremely helpful in guiding tube targets including some of you that have answered PMs, so thank you!  Also interested in another headphone.  A ZMF visit may is in order as their operation is not too far from where I live.



Congrats!

ZMF headphones and Glenn OTL is a fantastic pairing. You can’t go wrong with the Auteur or Verite and this amp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

jmac1516 said:


> Starting to get excited.  After many months of patiently waiting, Glenn says my GOTL build is nearing completion!!
> 
> Now need to continue building my tube inventory which is fairly lean. Forum members here have been extremely helpful in guiding tube targets including some of you that have answered PMs, so thank you!  Also interested in another headphone.  A ZMF visit may be in order as their operation is not too far from where I live.





Phantaminum said:


> Congrats!
> 
> ZMF headphones and Glenn OTL is a fantastic pairing. You can’t go wrong with the Auteur or Verite and this amp.



Seconded!  I do not own the Vérité (yet), but the Auteur is a fantastic pairing, particularly if you enjoy the midrange-forward frequency response of something like the HD650 (looking at what you already own).  The timbre and staging is different and the Auteur is more resolving, but in terms of frequency response, think HD650 but with sub-bass kick 

Here is a comparison measurement from ZMF:


----------



## jmac1516 (Aug 30, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Seconded!  I do not own the Vérité (yet), but the Auteur is a fantastic pairing, particularly if you enjoy the midrange-forward frequency response of something like the HD650 (looking at what you already own).  The timbre and staging is different and the Auteur is more resolving, but in terms of frequency response, think HD650 but with sub-bass kick
> 
> Here is a comparison measurement from ZMF


Thanks for this.  Honestly, the HP I listen to most at home is my Atticus but very interested to hear how both the Senn 650 and 800S perform with the GOTL


----------



## rnros

jmac1516 said:


> Starting to get excited.  After many months of patiently waiting, Glenn says my GOTL build is nearing completion!!
> 
> Now need to continue building my tube inventory which is fairly lean. Forum members here have been extremely helpful in guiding tube targets including some of you that have answered PMs, so thank you!  Also interested in another headphone.  A ZMF visit may be in order as their operation is not too far from where I live.



Congrats, jmac. Lots to be excited about.  
GOTL is such a transparent and dynamic amp that you never loose the enthusiasm for listening. Had mine about 2 years.
Since the amp sounds good with so many tube combinations, from inexpensive to ultra expensive, plenty of time and tubes to explore.
Definitely worth the wait!


----------



## UntilThen

jmac1516 said:


> Thanks for this.  Honestly, the HP I listen to most at home is my Atticus but very interested to hear how both the Senn 650 and 800S perform with the GOTL



Congrats. It's exciting when your build is nearing completion. More exciting when you get the OTL amp because your 3 headphones are a natural fit with it. I had Atticus and Eikon with GOTL for a year. I have a modified HD650 and HD800 - not the S. Prior to the arrival of Verite, my favourite headphone with the GOTL is the HD800 - no modding. LCD-3f is a close second favourite.

Verite with GOTL is an incredible pairing. That's what others have proclaimed in this thread. Naturally I was curious to find out for myself. I was on the verge of getting a Utopia but decided that I have to try Verite. Now that I have it for 11 days, the pairing is absolutely wonderful. I can see it becoming my clear favourite with GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> *GOTL is such a transparent and dynamic amp that you never loose the enthusiasm for listening.* Had mine about 2 years.



I think you'll still be saying that after you get GEL3N. Even with the arrival of Studio Six, I still find the GOTL an incredible sounding amp. It's that good. There's a sweetness and bite to the tone. Mine's coming up to 2 years in Dec.


----------



## jmac1516

UntilThen said:


> Congrats. It's exciting when your build is nearing completion. More exciting when you get the OTL amp because your 3 headphones are a natural fit with it. I had Atticus and Eikon with GOTL for a year. I have a modified HD650 and HD800 - not the S. Prior to the arrival of Verite, my favourite headphone with the GOTL is the HD800 - no modding. LCD-3f is a close second favourite.
> 
> Verite with GOTL is an incredible pairing. That's what others have proclaimed in this thread. Naturally I was curious to find out for myself. I was on the verge of getting a Utopia but decided that I have to try Verite. Now that I have it for 11 days, the pairing is absolutely wonderful. I can see it becoming my clear favourite with GOTL.


The Verite (open or closed) is at the top of my list!  I believe Zach has a GOTL in his shop so hopefully I can set up some time to sample both.


----------



## Monsterzero

jmac1516 said:


> The Verite (open or closed) is at the top of my list!  I believe Zach has a GOTL in his shop so hopefully I can set up some time to sample both.


 You should try to make it to the ZMF Festivus.


----------



## jmac1516

Monsterzero said:


> You should try to make it to the ZMF Festivus.


Thanks for the reminder.  I'm going to try to make it.  Still need to sort out a few family scheduling items.

I was not happy to miss last year given I live so close.


----------



## mordy

I have the GOTL for a little over a year now, and I am amazed how my musical experience continues to improve. 
This amp has the ability to bring out the emotional impact of the music in a great way.
Plus the price/performance ratio is hard to beat.....


----------



## UntilThen

From amps to tubes to dacs to headphones to ...... it's racks time. Show me your head-fi racks. 

I'm getting this today for my home away from home to house Yggdrasil, GOTL, Studio Six and Sansui au alpha 907mr or Sansui au-717. There's only room for one solid state amp. Top shelf can take up to 40kgs. The other shelves 30kgs.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> From amps to tubes to dacs to headphones to ...... it's racks time. Show me your head-fi racks.
> 
> I'm getting this today for my home away from home to house Yggdrasil, GOTL, Studio Six and Sansui au alpha 907mr or Sansui au-717. There's only room for one solid state amp. Top shelf can take up to 40kgs. The other shelves 30kgs.


Here is my rack made by Standesign:





Very heavy duty and standing on spikes.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Here is my rack made by Standesign:



Very nice !


----------



## Monsterzero

Here's mine. From bottom
Empty space-Innous Zen 4TB incoming
Lampizator TRP
GOTL
vintage Akai-AA1150 (had to turn shelf upside down to fit it)
far right- Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum driving my GoldenEar T2s. Damn thing weighs a ton,so it gets its own rack, made out of salvaged pallets.


----------



## UntilThen

Monster you win ! That's a 11/10 rack.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> From amps to tubes to dacs to headphones to ...... it's racks time. Show me your head-fi racks.
> 
> I'm getting this today for my home away from home to house Yggdrasil, GOTL, Studio Six and Sansui au alpha 907mr or Sansui au-717. There's only room for one solid state amp. Top shelf can take up to 40kgs. The other shelves 30kgs.




Nice....I like it.  Looks classy.

I do not use a rack I just have mine on a custom made table.


----------



## leftside (Aug 30, 2019)

mordy said:


> Here is my rack made by Standesign:
> Very heavy duty and standing on spikes.


Where did you get that? I had custom stands made from reclaimed wood by a local wood worker for my mono amps, and was thinking of doing the same for my headphone amps, but that Standesign is also quite nice.


----------



## heliosphann

whirlwind said:


> Nice....I like it.  Looks classy.
> 
> I do not use a rack I just have mine on a custom made table.



That's what I need. I've got a nice av rack but I prefer them spread out so they're easily accessible. Stupid plastic folding table isn't cutting it. lol


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Nice....I like it.  Looks classy.
> 
> I do not use a rack I just have mine on a custom made table.



Joe your custom made table is good but the room is now amazing with all those musicians posters.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 30, 2019)

leftside said:


> Where did you get that? I had custom stands made from reclaimed wood by a local wood worker for my mono amps, and was thinking of doing the same for my headphone amps, but that Standesign is also quite nice.



Holy moly I want that piece of wood and I don't mind the amp too.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> ...and Sansui au alpha 907mr or Sansui au-717. There's only room for one solid state amp.


I thought that after you got the Studio Six you sold your Sansui 907mr... didn't you?


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> I thought that after you got the Studio Six you sold your Sansui 907mr... didn't you?



Correct I sold it but in a bizarre twist of fate, it's found it's way back to me. I will take it to Skippy the Sansui guru to make it better than new. Then I will keep it for all eternity.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Correct I sold it but in a bizarre twist of fate, it's found it's way back to me.


 What?!? LOL!


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Correct I sold it but *in a bizarre twist of fate*, it's found it's way back to me. I will take it to Skippy the Sansui guru to make it better than new. Then I will keep it for all eternity.


hmmmm...... sounds like Seinfeld's "yada, yada, yada" episode!  
So, you're just keep us hanging and guessing?!


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> sounds like Seinfeld's "yada, yada, yada" episode!



It's not yada yada yada. It's until then until then until then.

Btw as with UntilThen's audio adventures, I spy this tube amp in the local classified yesterday and was truly tempted until I check myself and said, 'Glenn will make a better 12au7 and EL34 tube amp'.

What's interesting about this amp is the ability to run EL34, KT88 or 6L6GC .... as well as EL12 / EL12 spez with adapters in the power slots. There's a thread in Head-Fi and this el-cheapo amp from Japan design studio has quite a few fans.

But I believe Glenn will turn out a cracker amp that will make the Elekit tu-8200 look pale in comparison.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> What?!? LOL!



By bizarre twist of fate he means he had seller remorse and bought it back. Amirite?


----------



## Phantaminum

@L0rdGwyn You never gave us a review of your BH amp vs the GOTL. I’ve been scratching my neck the whole time waiting for it.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> By bizarre twist of fate he means he had seller remorse and bought it back. Amirite?



It's the only gear to have met this fate. All the others, once sold are gone for good. There must be divine intervention in this Sansui Goldie.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> It's the only gear to have met this fate. All the others, once sold are gone for good. There must be divine intervention in this Sansui Goldie.



It’s the same reason why I purchased the Auteur again after I sold it for the Verite. I really enjoyed the sound and kept missing it. I saw it as “meant to be”. Plus, that unit is gorgeous. I’m glad it found itself back you.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> @L0rdGwyn You never gave us a review of your BH amp vs the GOTL. I’ve been scratching my neck the whole time waiting for it.



Lol I totally did!!!  Here it is: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1870#post-15099876

Long story short, using the same tubes, the Crackatwoa can keep up with the GOTL, but it still falls short a bit in terms of detail and staging.  Then once you pop some 6BX7s or a quad of 6AS7/6080 into the GOTL, the gap really widens.  It widens even more when you start using driver tubes like 6N7s or C3gs that are GOTL only.

The Crackatwoa is great though and it has sentimental value for me (you don't even want to know how many hours I put into polishing that top plate), so it is now my analog amp


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> It’s the same reason why I purchased the Auteur again after I sold it for the Verite. I really enjoyed the sound and kept missing it. I saw it as “meant to be”. Plus, that unit is gorgeous. I’m glad it found itself back you.



That's what I'm afraid of. I prefer a more neutral sound signature in a headphone. I'm afraid that if I try the Auteur, I might like it more than the Verite lol.

Anyway, my senses are getting attuned to Verite and with burn in more it might be just right.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Lol I totally did!!!  Here it is: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1870#post-15099876
> 
> Long story short, using the same tubes, the Crackatwoa can keep up with the GOTL, but it still falls short a bit in terms of detail and staging.  Then once you pop some 6BX7s or a quad of 6AS7/6080 into the GOTL, the gap really widens.  It widens even more when you start using driver tubes like 6N7s or C3gs that are GOTL only.
> 
> The Crackatwoa is great though and it has sentimental value for me (you don't even want to know how many hours I put into polishing that top plate), so it is now my analog amp



I have not heard your Crackatwoa but I've heard a Crack with Speedball. They are not the same obviously because your Crackatowa is lot nicer and internally you must have added steroids. My impressions are pretty  much what you've stated there. Perhaps more so. GOTL in my opinion is several leagues away from the Crack with Speedball and it's a lopsided comparison.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Lol I totally did!!!  Here it is: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1870#post-15099876
> 
> Long story short, using the same tubes, the Crackatwoa can keep up with the GOTL, but it still falls short a bit in terms of detail and staging.  Then once you pop some 6BX7s or a quad of 6AS7/6080 into the GOTL, the gap really widens.  It widens even more when you start using driver tubes like 6N7s or C3gs that are GOTL only.
> 
> The Crackatwoa is great though and it has sentimental value for me (you don't even want to know how many hours I put into polishing that top plate), so it is now my analog amp


How many hours? LOL


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 30, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I have not heard your Crackatwoa but I've heard a Crack with Speedball. They are not the same obviously because your Crackatowa is lot nicer and internally you must have added steroids. My impressions are pretty  much what you've stated there. Perhaps more so. GOTL in my opinion is several leagues away from the Crack with Speedball and it's a lopsided comparison.



It has been so long since I've heard the Crack + SB, I can't say exactly how lopsided it is, but no doubt the GOTL is far better.  The gap isn't quite as large with the Crackatwoa, it is a very capable and enjoyable amp, but once you get into the versatility of the GOTL and the tubes it can run, the gap does get pretty big, no doubt about it.

The beauty of the Crack is the building experience and the sound you get for a low price.  It is the perfect gateway tube amp and the collection of tubes I amassed with the Crack/Crackatwoa set me up for lots of happiness with the GOTL 



attmci said:


> How many hours? LOL



I can't disclose that information.  I suffer from a disease called perfectionism, it is not a good thing!


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> It has been so long since I've heard the Crack + SB, I can't say exactly how lopsided it is, but no doubt the GOTL is far better.  The gap isn't quite as large with the Crackatwoa, it is a very capable and enjoyable amp, but once you get into the versatility of the GOTL and the tubes it can run, the gap does get pretty big, no doubt about it.
> 
> The beauty of the Crack is the building experience and the sound you get for a low price.  It is the perfect gateway tube amp and the collection of tubes I amassed with the Crack/Crackatwoa set me up for lots of happiness with the GOTL
> 
> ...



I've got a Crack w/Speedball that's been gathering dust for 2-3 years. It started giving me random loud popping noises in the headphones, so I didn't want to risk using it. I didn't put it together, so I have no idea what might be the issue.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Lol I totally did!!!  Here it is: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1870#post-15099876
> 
> Long story short, using the same tubes, the Crackatwoa can keep up with the GOTL, but it still falls short a bit in terms of detail and staging.  Then once you pop some 6BX7s or a quad of 6AS7/6080 into the GOTL, the gap really widens.  It widens even more when you start using driver tubes like 6N7s or C3gs that are GOTL only.
> 
> The Crackatwoa is great though and it has sentimental value for me (you don't even want to know how many hours I put into polishing that top plate), so it is now my analog amp



I’ve never noticed this, oops! Thanks for the link LG. 



UntilThen said:


> That's what I'm afraid of. I prefer a more neutral sound signature in a headphone. I'm afraid that if I try the Auteur, I might like it more than the Verite lol.
> 
> Anyway, my senses are getting attuned to Verite and with burn in more it might be just right.



With the Auteur pads it’s a beautiful sounding neutral headphone. Against the Verite you may miss out on the speed and the very fine details but the Auteurs have, to me, better tone and timbre.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> I've got a Crack w/Speedball that's been gathering dust for 2-3 years. It started giving me random loud popping noises in the headphones, so I didn't want to risk using it. I didn't put it together, so I have no idea what might be the issue.



Hmm, I wonder if it was an arcing tube?  If you wanted to, you could sent it to Bottlehead to have them tune it up, but then you have other fancier amps to choose from


----------



## Sound Trooper (Aug 30, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> That's what I'm afraid of. I prefer a more neutral sound signature in a headphone. I'm afraid that if I try the Auteur, I might like it more than the Verite lol.
> 
> Anyway, my senses are getting attuned to Verite and with burn in more it might be just right.



Did someone say Auteur?




Go for it @UntilThen! You know you want it...

I heard the Verite as well but I felt that the Auteur still does it for me.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Sound Trooper said:


> Did someone say Auteur?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Pile it on.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> With the Auteur pads it’s a beautiful sounding neutral headphone. Against the Verite you may miss out on the speed and the very fine details but the Auteurs have, to me, better tone and timbre.





Sound Trooper said:


> Go for it @UntilThen! You know you want it...
> 
> I heard the Verite as well but I felt that the Auteur still does it for me.





L0rdGwyn said:


> Pile it on.



OK, Lord Auteur Sauron's army is coming hard at me but Frodo Verite has a mission to bring the ring to the fires of Mount Doom in Mordor wherein the burning of the ring will be completed and the Truth will be revealed.

So come what may, the burning must be completed and that's 300 hours. Which will take me to one month before Christmas. By which time I'm ready for the next headphone and the burning will start again.... will this ever end? It's endless burning.


----------



## UntilThen

I have a quota of 4 headphones at any one time. So there's only room for one more. It has to be chosen with great care. 

This was my quartet in 2017 / 2018.

HD800, LCD-2f, Eikon, Atticus. Only HD800 remains.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm thinking HE6 or HE1000se. 2 dynamic headphones and 2 planar magnetics to level the playing field. Unless Zach produce a ZMF planar.


----------



## UntilThen

Huh speaker taps cable for the He6se and I'll drive it off the Sansui 907mr.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Pile it on.





UntilThen said:


> Lord Auteur Sauron's army is coming hard at me


----------



## UntilThen

Auteurs every where. I need help here. Glenn bring out your Verite. @UsoppNoKami bring out your Verite. I need reinforcement.


----------



## DecentLevi

whirlwind said:


> Nice....I like it.  Looks classy.
> 
> I do not use a rack I just have mine on a custom made table.


Joe just curious which amp is getting more headphone time between the GOTL and GEL3N amp? I do presume headphone synergy plays a role as well.

Also thanks for your answer by PM about recommended output load for speakers, and I'm also posting here for anyone that may have a 2nd opinion. Would 4, 8 or 16 ohms be most recommended on the speaker out section of a tube amp to drive bookshelf monitors? I haven't gotten my speakers yet but assume 8 ohms would be most universal.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Unless Zach produce a ZMF planar.


I cannot say anything one way or the other,but I will say....have patience.


----------



## UntilThen

DL, I suggest a pair of Zu Omen Dirty Weekend MkII. You want a high efficiency speakers that also sound good and still affordable.

*OMEN DW MK.II QUICK SPECS*
Height: 36” [91.5 cm]
Footprint: 12 x 12” [30.5 x 30.5 cm]
Weight: 54 pounds [24 kg] each
Bandwidth: 35 – 25 kHz
Efficiency: 97 dB-SPL 1W, 1m
Impedance: 12 ohm
Power Amp Range: 4 – 300 watt
Made by us in Ogden, Utah—U.S.A.


----------



## DecentLevi

UntilThen said:


> I'm thinking HE6 or HE1000se. 2 dynamic headphones and 2 planar magnetics to level the playing field. Unless Zach produce a ZMF planar.



UT although I've yet to try the Verite, I've tried the entire ZMF line up to the Auteur (which impressed me but not enough to get it), and I say you may miss out if you put all your eggs in one basket (all ZMF offerings). Alex Rosson, former member of Audeze has managed to create a planar headphone called Rad-0 that for many picks up where the Audeze line left off, and you can even see from a recent page on it's thread where at least 1 of 2 members preferred the Rosson Audio Rad-0 to the Verite. These two quotes sum it up quite well:



Seazer said:


> I just came back from the Audio Video Boutique in Vegas where i demoed many headphones from Audeze, ZMF, Hifiman, Sennheiser, MrSpeakers, Meze, Stax, and Focal.  However the Rosson Rad-0 were FAR AND AWAY my favorite headphones I tried. Luscious, meaty, detailed bass, with an incredibly natural balance and transition into the mids and highs, with extreme detail that is just forward enough to keep from feeling any sort of fatigue or harshness. 10/10 I need to start saving up.





Torq said:


> Just some more gratuitous color ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For me I'll be getting this next when possible, as well as the HEDDphone One which is literally in it's own league, both metaphorically and technically.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> I have a quota of 4 headphones at any one time. So there's only room for one more. It has to be chosen with great care.
> 
> This was my quartet in 2017 / 2018.
> 
> HD800, LCD-2f, Eikon, Atticus. Only HD800 remains.



Funny - out of these 4 (and I am very familiar with at least 3 of them), ZMF Atticus is my favorite!


----------



## DecentLevi

UntilThen said:


> DL, I suggest a pair of Zu Omen Dirty Weekend MkII. You want a high efficiency speakers that also sound good and still affordable.
> 
> *OMEN DW MK.II QUICK SPECS*
> Height: 36” [91.5 cm]
> ...


Thanks for the recommendation, will consider it. Would it sound just as well driven by an 8-ohm load, or would it be better to get a specific 12-ohm output on my amp for these? But then would a 12 ohm load drive most other 8 ohm speakers well also?


----------



## Seazer (Aug 30, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Funny - out of these 4 (and I am very familiar with at least 3 of them), ZMF Atticus is my favorite!


I really enjoyed the Atticus from what I listened to. The MrSpeakers Ether C Flow 1.1 were very close though! The Atticus had more bass while the Ether had a more neutral sound. The Ether had slightly better detail retrieval to my ears though. Both were incredible sounding for closed backs though.
If I had unlimited money I would probably get the Rad0, Atticus, and LCD-i3 and be done for good.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks for the recommendation, will consider it. Would it sound just as well driven by an 8-ohm load, or would it be better to get a specific 12-ohm output on my amp for these? But then would a 12 ohm load drive most other 8 ohm speakers well also?



Generally, it's fine to connect higher impedance speakers to an amp; what you don't want to do is plug low impedance speakers, let's say 4 ohms, into an amp that specifies a minimum 8-ohm limit.

Have a read of this article written for the layman. https://www.themasterswitch.com/how-to-match-speakers-and-amps

My Axis LS88 floor standers are rated at 4 ohms and max 300watts and the Axis Voicebox S at 5 ohms and equally power hungry. These are driven by Redgum Rgi120enr rated at 165w into 8ohms and 264w into 4 ohms. The Redgum amp was recommended for the Voicebox S by the Axis speaker designer. It will also drive LS88 floor stander to house shaking volume. The Sansui au alpha 907mr is rated at 160w into 8ohms and 190w into 6 ohms and will drive both speakers like a Sumo wrestler. 

Now you see why I don't need headphone amps to power speakers.


----------



## DecentLevi

Thanks UT. So perhaps I would be quite well off with a 16-ohm speaker output on my Glenn amp to match well with any 8, 12 or 16 ohm speakers - and even_ in theory_ a hard to drive headphone with an adapter.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 30, 2019)

As I work out the final details of my custom Glenn amp, a little last minute advise would be very helpful. Would anyone here happen to know if there are any advantages (especially sonic advantages) of going with Gold Point switches for both one to two stage tube operation and headphone to speaker switch, and Gold Point volume knob? And is it known if Jupiter coupling caps have any sonic advantage on a Glenn amp? Thanks in advance


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks UT. So perhaps I would be quite well off with a 16-ohm speaker output on my Glenn amp to match well with any 8, 12 or 16 ohm speakers - and even_ in theory_ a hard to drive headphone with an adapter.



No I reckon you should go for 8 ohms speakers load on the amp then if you get the zu omen at 12 ohms that is perfectly ok. Ask Glenn though he is the man.


----------



## UntilThen

I'll repeat this statement again.
_Generally, it's fine to connect higher impedance speakers to an amp; what you don't want to do is plug low impedance speakers, let's say 4 ohms, into an amp that specifies a minimum 8-ohm limit._

So if your amp has a min 8-ohm limit, you are ok with equal or higher 8, 12, 16 ohms speaker load but you don't want to use a lower 4ohm speaker load into that amp min 8ohm limit.

So if your amp is at 8ohm load and you use a higher 12ohm load of the Zu Omen Dirty Weekend, that's perfectly ok.


----------



## UntilThen

I think the Glenn 300b amp outputs 8 watts. Not sure about the power from your 4 x EL34. Glenn will provide the answer. Someone told me that 4 x EL3N will output 5 watts.


----------



## DecentLevi

Thanks UT, I got your meaning backwards and math wasn't my best subject LOL. Yup 8 works best.

I am very pleased at the reasonable price, and the notion of the GEL3N amp performing even better than the GOTL, at not much more than the Euforia v2 amp _must_ make it the best price/performance amp currently available.

Also I have faith in Glenn's suggestion to use the upgraded Jupiter coupling caps and have read fine things about them just now, just curious on any opinions and if I need two? For the upgraded Gold Point switches and volume knob, are these more for a smoother knob adjustment and channel balance, or would the sum of all 3 upgraded knobs be likely to make any sonic improvement? 

And any reason I should go with Yamamoto sockets? Thanks


----------



## UntilThen

DL I will reply later tonight. The family has taken me out for dinner. I feel loved.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> DL, I suggest a pair of Zu Omen Dirty Weekend MkII. You want a high efficiency speakers that also sound good and still affordable.
> 
> *OMEN DW MK.II QUICK SPECS*
> Height: 36” [91.5 cm]
> ...



I have these speakers drive them with 300B 8 watts more then enough volume for me.
Also drove them with the EL3N single output tube with no problem loud enough for most of my listening.
These are great sounding speakers!!


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 31, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks UT, I got your meaning backwards and math wasn't my best subject LOL. Yup 8 works best.
> 
> I am very pleased at the reasonable price, and the notion of the GEL3N amp performing even better than the GOTL, at not much more than the Euforia v2 amp _must_ make it the best price/performance amp currently available.
> 
> ...



For the impedance switch it has to be the Gold Point.  I don't know of any other 20 pole switch that it has to be with the Lundahl transformer.
And it might as well be the best.

I don't see any reason to use Yamamoto sockets if using Octal sockets. If side pin yes the
Yamamoto are a must


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 31, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> That's what I need. I've got a nice av rack but I prefer them spread out so they're easily accessible. Stupid plastic folding table isn't cutting it. lol




I understand about the plastic table, I tried one also.

I was able to find some discounted black counter top that I bought from my local lumber shop.  There was enough to make a  5 1/2  X  5 1/2 corner table....20 inches wide.

 


I wish I had a tab more room to put a couple more headphones, but I don't like to sit stuff on top of gear.  OCD maybe, lol.

That is your old LCD-3 pre-fazor in the pic


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 31, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Joe just curious which amp is getting more headphone time between the GOTL and GEL3N amp? I do presume headphone synergy plays a role as well..



 Maybe the GEL3N because I have two planar headphones...

Thing is I use all 3 amps and 3 headphones.  If I listen to my planars it is with GEL3N or GS-X mk2

When I get the Atticus out, it usually goes directly in the OTL.  What a killer combo as are all high impedance headphones that I have tried with GOTL.  My personal preference is high impedance in GOTL and planars in GEL3N & SS

I could plug most any headphone into all three amps and most would sound very good, so YMMV.

Besides, if I use all 3 amps, wife has to let me keep them.....right ?


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> I am very pleased at the reasonable price, and the notion of the GEL3N amp performing even better than the GOTL, at not much more than the Euforia v2 amp _must_ make it the best price/performance amp currently available.



You will never meet a more fair dinkum custom amp builder who refuses to raise his amp price despite the growing demand for his amps. I tip my hat in salute.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> You will never meet a more fair dinkum custom amp builder who refuses to raise his amp price despite the growing demand for his amps. I tip my hat in salute.



Glenn's amps have love and knowledge built into them and you can feel and hear them both.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Maybe the GEL3N because I have two planar headphones...
> 
> Thing is I use all 3 amps and 3 headphones.  If I listen to my planars it is with GEL3N or GS-X mk2
> 
> ...



Hey Joe, glad to see you making good use of your 3 amps, I have done some housekeeping myself and sold off the Ragnarok and BHC. I’ve not been using them at all and most importantly of all, the GEL3N trumps both in sound department. Anyway now I have an empty slot next to the GEL3N and........... <<watch this space>>


----------



## UntilThen

So DL, Glenn has answered some of your questions and it's wise to listen to him.

Nice to go with all these:-
Gold Point 47 steps attenuator - if budget is tight, this is the first to go. It's not going to sway SQ one iota.
Gold Point switch for 1 or 2 stage. 
Gold Point speaker impedance switch. I think with this, you can set the impedance to 8, 12, 16 ohms. 
Jupiters caps - if budget is tight skip this. My GOTL Russian paper in oil caps sounds lovely.
Large chassis (black) - looks like you have to go with this if you're having 4 x EL34 and a tube rectifier. 

Lastly Yamamoto's sockets. After seeing Studio Six sockets, I'd want Yamamoto's sockets any day and any night but you have to pay the price - literally.

So set yourself a budget and go with what you're comfortable. Don't forget you still have to spend $999 for that pair of sexy blue Zu Omen that will make your weekends very dirty.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I cannot say anything one way or the other,but I will say....have patience.




I have wanted to hear a planar from ZMF since i first heard the Omni / Ori
It still gets lots of head time because I love it with the music I like.......Just has headphone/blues music synergy to me.

New ZMF planars....oh lord yes!!!

I would love the + bass, done well.....still contain nice smooth mids, sort of like hershey's chocolate and then just a small amount of the upper registers off at very top.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I remember listening to an interview where Zach said two items on his to do list were to make 1) a more affordable ZMF in the $5-800ish range and 2) a planar.  He said the planar market is pretty stacked right now, so it would have to be something "unique".....

All aboard the hype train


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey Joe, glad to see you making good use of your 3 amps, I have done some housekeeping myself and sold off the Ragnarok and BHC. I’ve not been using them at all and most importantly of all, the GEL3N trumps both in sound department. Anyway now I have an empty slot next to the GEL3N and........... <<watch this space>>



Can't wait to see the new edition.


----------



## Wes S

L0rdGwyn said:


> I remember listening to an interview where Zach said two items on his to do list were to make 1) a more affordable ZMF in the $5-800ish range and 2) a planar.  He said the planar market is pretty stacked right now, so it would have to be something "unique".....
> 
> All aboard the hype train


Damn!  I have never heard about that interview, and that is awesome it has at least been mentioned and is a possibility.  I really thought is was just a pipe dream.  As an Ori and Blackwood owner for life, I always dream of Zach’s next planar.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey Joe, glad to see you making good use of your 3 amps, I have done some housekeeping myself and sold off the Ragnarok and BHC. I’ve not been using them at all and most importantly of all, the GEL3N trumps both in sound department. *Anyway now I have an empty slot next to the GEL3N and...........* <<watch this space>>



There is a professional until then service that helps you fill up empty slots. Satisfaction guaranteed for a reasonable fee.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 31, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Damn!  I have never heard about that interview, and that is awesome it has at least been mentioned and is a possibility.  I really thought is was just a pipe dream.  As an Ori and Blackwood owner for life, I always dream of Zach’s next planar.



I can't remember where I saw this linked originally, but here is the interview from late last year, Innerfidelity podcast.  It is about an hour long, but really interesting stuff about ZMF headphone development, being a small business owner and the risks of a new product launch, etc.  Highly recommend giving it a listen if you are a ZMF fan!

I had some down time at work recently on a night shift, got me through the 4 AM hour 

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelity-podcast-no6-zach-mehrbach-zmf-headphones


----------



## Sound Trooper

L0rdGwyn said:


> I remember listening to an interview where Zach said two items on his to do list were to make 1) a more affordable ZMF in the $5-800ish range and 2) a planar.  He said the planar market is pretty stacked right now, so it would have to be something "unique".....
> 
> All aboard the hype train



A ZMF planar would be pretty spectacular....


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> A ZMF planar would be pretty spectacular....



Oh yeah....with your amp....tasty pastries


----------



## Monsterzero

Wes S said:


> Damn!  I have never heard about that interview, and that is awesome it has at least been mentioned and is a possibility.  I really thought is was just a pipe dream.  As an Ori and Blackwood owner for life, I always dream of Zach’s next planar.



https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/7bx3l1/im_zach_mehrbach_founderowner_of_zmfheadphones/


----------



## Wes S

Monsterzero said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/7bx3l1/im_zach_mehrbach_founderowner_of_zmfheadphones/


Thanks buddy!


----------



## UntilThen

Sometimes when you have nothing you learn to be content. Like right now all I have is a modified HD650 with Burson Audio Play dac / amp.


Sound Trooper said:


> Anyway now I have an empty slot next to the GEL3N and........... <<watch this space>>



I'm very excited for you. I think you'll fill it with something very nice sounding. Looking forward to see what it will be. 

I can tell you that the GOTL and Studio Six have kept me totally glued to my 'Cave' for the last week, swapping my 3 headphones and tubes constantly. Now back in Sydney for the weekend, with only HD650 and Burson Audio Play, I feel such a craving to reach out to the 2 tube amps and 3 headphones again. It was great to see the family again though and I would gladly sacrifice music to be with them.


----------



## UntilThen

1st of September. That's when the robins sings. It's officially the start of Spring.

Happy Father's Day to all.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> 1st of September. That's when the robins sings. It's officially the start of Spring.
> 
> Happy Father's Day to all.


Nice. Here in N.America this the last weekend of summer,before we head into 6-7 months of hell.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Nice. Here in N.America this the last weekend of summer,before we head into 6-7 months of hell.



Autumn, Spring, Winter and Summer - my order of preference.

Autumn is the Mea Culpa season of reflection of my obsession with tube amps, headphones and Sansui amps.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Autumn is the Mea Culpa season of reflection of my obsession with tube amps, headphones and Sansui amps.



Actually Autumn is the season of: "Get Ready For the White crap Idiot"!


----------



## UntilThen

Last night coming home after dinner, I played 2 songs on vinyl and shared it with my son. It was then I realised how much I miss my 2 channel stereo system. 'Stairways To Heaven' and 'Nothing Else Matters' never sounded so good !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> White crap Idiot



What's 'White crap Idiot' ? Is that another American slang?


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> What's 'White crap Idiot' ? Is that another American slang?



White Crap=snow
Idiot=Me,for not living somewhere warm


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> White Crap=snow
> Idiot=Me,for not living somewhere warm



Haha I actually like the cold more than Summer's scorching heat. The seasons affects our musical moods I can assure you.

For somewhere warm you should come to Australia. We can pow wow.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> White Crap=snow
> Idiot=Me,for not living somewhere warm


It's not snow bad


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> It's not snow bad



What a view and glorious sight.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> It's not snow bad



You already got snow?
This is why I moved from up state New York by the Canadian border it started snowing in September.


----------



## 2359glenn

Just got me a replacement GEC 6AS7 for $190 not that bad.


----------



## UntilThen

No snow here but we have nice beaches.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Just got me a replacement GEC 6AS7 for $190 not that bad.


 Nice. Youre back in crazy priced tube land.
Did you get back to that dude in that thread I tagged you in?


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> There is a professional until then service that helps you fill up empty slots. Satisfaction guaranteed for a reasonable fee.



Hey Matt, you know I trust your recommendations. So fire away!

In the meantime, here’s some pictures taken during my recent trip to Melbourne.

           


PS: sorry for the non audio related pics


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hay Bales in Montana as we exited Glacier Nat Park.   Mtns look snow covered but they are not.  It is very early morning light upon the Majesty’s...

Haze in the distance in this light makes them look silvery...


----------



## Sound Trooper

.... and the food in Melbourne was nothing short of amazing


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> You already got snow?
> This is why I moved from up state New York by the Canadian border it started snowing in September.


That was last year 

And this was Wednesday. Doesn't beat the Aussie beaches @UntilThen, but it's not so bad.


----------



## Monsterzero

Yeah yall have nice beaches,fantastic food and all,but do you have an anatomically correct bull?!? Didnt think so.



 

We have decent beaches too. Too damn cold and rocky for me. Im used to Caribbean and Thai beaches.



 

Oh and we have fine dining too! :/



 

Cant wait to get the hell outta here!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Just got me a replacement GEC 6AS7 for $190 not that bad.



"Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in!"


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> We have decent beaches too. Too damn cold and rocky for me. Im used to Caribbean and Thai beaches.


Long Island?


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey Matt, you know I trust your recommendations. So fire away!
> 
> In the meantime, here’s some pictures taken during my recent trip to Melbourne.





leftside said:


> And this was Wednesday. Doesn't beat the Aussie beaches @UntilThen, but it's not so bad.





Monsterzero said:


> Yeah yall have nice beaches,fantastic food and all,but do you have an anatomically correct bull?!? Didnt think so.



Nice pictures guys !!! You're getting me connected to your part of the world. The benefits of this thread. No only do I get to meet like minded Head-Fi enthusiasts, I make nice friends too. 

Sam, I'm humbled by your trust but I reckon you'll do alright on your own. You have great taste in Head-Fi gear ! My last remaining desire in another tube amp would probably be the Glenn 300b amp or a Glenn GEC L63 / 6J5 with 6V6 / 6L6 / EL34 / EL12 spez / EL38 / EL39. The latter would probably be particularly interesting given how good the 6V6 sound in Studio Six and knowing how good the GOTL sound, Glenn will produce this amp with his own sonic signature that will please me to no end. That's right, no end. After which I'll change my name from UntilThen to TheEnd.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Red Fish Lake Idaho, at sunrise


----------



## UntilThen

Of course Tony has to tempt me with the 300b amp. So that's the end of road amp for me.      Post #2797


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> My last remaining desire in another tube amp would probably be the Glenn 300b amp or a Glenn GEC L63 / 6J5 with 6V6 / 6L6 / EL34 / EL12 spez / EL38 / EL39. The latter would probably be particularly interesting given how good the 6V6 sound in Studio Six and knowing how good the GOTL sound, Glenn will produce this amp with his own sonic signature that will please me to no end. That's right, no end. After which I'll change my name from UntilThen to TheEnd.



Or how about a Glenn 6M5 with 6V6 / 6L6 / EL34 / EL12 spez / EL38 / EL39? After all, the 6M5 was made only at Philips' Hendon Works, Alberton, Australia.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> I understand about the plastic table, I tried one also.
> 
> I was able to find some discounted black counter top that I bought from my local lumber shop.  There was enough to make a  5 1/2  X  5 1/2 corner table....20 inches wide.
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Or how about a Glenn 6M5 with 6V6 / 6L6 / EL34 / EL12 spez / EL38 / EL39? After all, the 6M5 was made only at Philips' Hendon Works, Alberton, Australia.



Nice pictures. The tubes have to be readily available.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Where did you get that? I had custom stands made from reclaimed wood by a local wood worker for my mono amps, and was thinking of doing the same for my headphone amps, but that Standesign is also quite nice.


Hi leftside,
I bought the Standesign rack in the 70's from a Hi-Fi store in MA. You may be able to find them used but they are very heavy and usually not available for shipping - pick-up only.
Found a similar one for sale, but local pick-up only:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Standesign-Penta-Rack/352771782276?hash=item5222d63684:g:FV0AAOSwM5Rc~zU0


----------



## gibosi

Yeah, 6M5 are not at all plentiful on eBay, but I thought that maybe within Australia they might not be hard to find as they were manufactured there and often found in locally made equipment.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Long Island?


Yup. My wife is from here. Ive convinced her to head west in 2 years,9 months,and a handful of days and minutes.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Oh and we have fine dining too! :/
> 
> 
> 
> Cant wait to get the hell outta here!



Nothin' more 'Merican than a Sushi bar in a strip mall!


----------



## UntilThen

Is that what Wild Ginger is? A strip mall? I thought it’s just good old ginger.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> Nothin' more 'Merican than a Sushi bar in a strip mall!





UntilThen said:


> Is that what Wild Ginger is? A strip mall? I thought it’s just good old ginger.



We actually have one decent spot to eat in my town,and Wild Ginger aint it. Some of the worst food Ive ever eaten in my life is on Long Island,which is a bit odd as Manhattan has some great,no scratch that,world class eateries. For whatever reason decent grub never made it out this way.
Over priced,greasy slop....and the funny thing is these bozos out here think the food is great!


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> We actually have one decent spot to eat in my town,and Wild Ginger aint it. Some of the worst food Ive ever eaten in my life is on Long Island,which is a bit odd as Manhattan has some great,no scratch that,world class eateries. For whatever reason decent grub never made it out this way.
> Over priced,greasy slop....and the funny thing is these bozos out here think the food is great!



You need to come to Sydney then. We're cosmopolitan. Anything you fancy. Even crocodile or kangaroo pizza. Had the best Italian meal last night. The manager look like Al Pacino.


----------



## Zachik

The amazing synergy between the GOTL and ZMF's Verite has been discussed before...

Here is my shameless plug for anyone who is on the fence with regards to entering the Verite club: 
I am looking to sell my LTD Verite Pheasant wood, in order to finance a Verite LTD with Cocobolo wood. Not for any perceived sound improvement, but I just like the look of Cocobolo wood better!
So, if anyone is looking to get a little cheaper LTD Verite - here is my FS post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-zmf-verite-ltd-pheasant-wood.914204/

(I will accept *reasonable* offers!)


----------



## DecentLevi

Well you guys tempted me. I'm a bit of a photographer too, and in fact after visiting 20 countries I still hold dear Canada as my favorite with some of the nicest people and world-class scenery. With Japan coming in 2nd. Here's a few random snaps I took:

Vancouver Canada


 
Bangkok Thailand






 

Hamburg Germany


 
Hokkaido Japan (hot springs)


----------



## UntilThen

Japan's great. Love my visit there. Last year was Taiwan. This year is work and head-fi and HiFi.  Not complaining though because I love my toys.


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 1, 2019)

Heres some photos in SE Asia. Mainly Thailand,Vietnam and Cambodia. I miss the food and beaches...and weather. Eleven years was enough though.

Koh Lipe,Thailand




 

 
Stadium made of beer. Bangkok,Thailand



 

 
Angkor Wat,Cambodia



 

fried bugs...nope,just nope. Bangkok,Thailand



 

Hanoi,Vietnam. Incredibly beautiful women there...



 

 

 

Nong Khai, thailand



 
American War Museum. Saigon, Vietnam



 
Koh Samui,Thailand


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 1, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> So DL, Glenn has answered some of your questions and it's wise to listen to him.
> 
> Nice to go with all these:-
> Gold Point 47 steps attenuator - if budget is tight, this is the first to go. It's not going to sway SQ one iota.
> ...


Yup I'm going will all the above, along with external Hexfred / rectifier socket. But I'm getting a smooth instead of stepped attenuator. Any specific advantage, aesthetically or sonically I should go with the Yamamoto's for an octal socket?



UntilThen said:


> Nice pictures guys !!! You're getting me connected to your part of the world. The benefits of this thread. No only do I get to meet like minded Head-Fi enthusiasts, I make nice friends too.
> 
> Sam, I'm humbled by your trust but I reckon you'll do alright on your own. You have great taste in Head-Fi gear ! My last remaining desire in another tube amp would probably be the Glenn 300b amp or a Glenn GEC L63 / 6J5 with 6V6 / 6L6 / EL34 / EL12 spez / EL38 / EL39. The latter would probably be particularly interesting given how good the 6V6 sound in Studio Six and knowing how good the GOTL sound, Glenn will produce this amp with his own sonic signature that will please me to no end. That's right, no end. After which I'll change my name from UntilThen to TheEnd.



So I feel proud to announce that I have finally secured my place in line for what is essentially the above GEL3N-ish amp, though with 6SN7's as drivers which can do dual 6J5 as well.

My quad output sockets on this custom amp will use the standard octal base and configured natively for "6V6, 6K6, 6F6, KT77" as I was told, which I'm assuming also includes EL34 and KT66 natively as well.  With adapters I should also be able to use EL11 / 12, EL12 Spez, EL32, EL 38, EL 39 and of course EL3N which this amp is basically configured for. Good times ahead! And @Deyan this gives you an idea for my future orders. The amp should be ready by around Christmas I was told, though my adapter orders will come in after a while.


----------



## UntilThen

DL, Yamamoto socket is not so much about aesthetics. It’s the very solid and smooth contacts. It’s brass or gold plated. It’s made of Teflon which is the best material.

After several tube change in Studio Six, the sockets still like new.

It’s not a must. Good to have but only you can decide how much you want to spend. SQ wise it won’t make a difference.


----------



## UntilThen

The configuration you have there is very good. I like the idea of using a single 6sn7. In my case, I would be able to use some of my best drivers:-

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
Mullard ECC33 
Mullard ECC31
Tung Sol 12SL7GT black glass round plates. (Perhaps ask Glenn to have a switch for 6.3, 12.6, 25.2 volts so you can use GEC B36, FDD20)

In the power slot, I think EL12 spez will sound phenomenal. 

I am actually very keen on this amp or the 300b but it will have to be Jan or Feb 2020 as I already have 2 very nice tube amps. 

Another thing - can you mix tubes in the quad power slots? Haha. For instance use 2 x 6L6 and 2 x EL34. I think you will go crazy in your combinations if you can lol.


----------



## UntilThen

Dang Monster nice pictures! You were living the life then. Good times.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> .... and the food in Melbourne was nothing short of amazing




I could go for some damn good fresh oysters!


----------



## whirlwind

Hi mordy.

Yes, I could use those hangers but I dont want it to look too cluttered and really the headphones are just an arms length away in a cupboard to my right.


----------



## Deyan

DecentLevi said:


> Yup I'm going will all the above, along with external Hexfred / rectifier socket. But I'm getting a smooth instead of stepped attenuator. Any specific advantage, aesthetically or sonically I should go with the Yamamoto's for an octal socket?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The idea is already there. The thing is that no one has asked for such a thing. I don't have the funds to make things in advance.


----------



## whirlwind

Some very cool pics guys.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Oxbow Bend in Grand Teton NP, Wyoming USA


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Oxbow Bend in Grand Teton NP, Wyoming USA


I saw more moose there in 1 week than I have in my entire 22 years in Canada!


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Heres some photos in SE Asia. Mainly Thailand,Vietnam and Cambodia. I miss the food and beaches...and weather. Eleven years was enough though.
> 
> Koh Lipe,Thailand
> 
> ...



We did a trip to most of those places a couple of years ago. What a great 11 years you must have had. Angkor Wat is one of the most amazing places I've ever visited. We were up at 3am and then back at the hotel for 6pm for a very long, but spectacular day


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 1, 2019)

Well, if everyone else is going to post photos from their travels, I am too dammit.

Peak of Lone Cone Mountain, Tofino, British Columbia.


Sunrise at Joshua Tree National Park, California, USA.


Gap of Dunloe, Kerry, Ireland.


Evening stroll in Paris, France.


Westernmost point of continental Europe, Monchique, Portugal.


Panorama from the top of the Cattedrale di Santa Maria del Fiore, Florence, Italy.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> We did a trip to most of those places a couple of years ago. What a great 11 years you must have had. Angkor Wat is one of the most amazing places I've ever visited. We were up at 3am and then back at the hotel for 6pm for a very long, but spectacular day




Did you make it over to Ta Prohm? I had lots of pics from there,but I cant find them. 
They filmed an Indiana Jones movie there. Fantastic place!








UntilThen said:


> Dang Monster nice pictures! You were living the life then. Good times.



Thanks Matt. Good life indeed. Now you know why I hate the snow and cold,and beaches have been ruined for me for life.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Did you make it over to Ta Prohm? I had lots of pics from there,but I cant find them.
> They filmed an Indiana Jones movie there. Fantastic place!
> 
> 
> ...




I have to show this to my wife


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Easternmost point of continental Europe, Monchique, Portugal.


You mean Western-most... right?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> You mean Western-most... right?



That's what I said, you must have misheard me


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> I saw more moose there in 1 week than I have in my entire 22 years in Canada!



That’s amazing!!!

Here is a momma bear and two cubs swimming across the river at Oxbow:


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Did you make it over to Ta Prohm? I had lots of pics from there,but I cant find them.
> They filmed an Indiana Jones movie there. Fantastic place!


Indeed we did. In the afternoon.


----------



## mordy

Here is a picture from Port Jervis, NY. One of the most scenic roads in the US hugs the cliffs over the Delaware River:


----------



## mordy

And to come back to topic - my favorite tube picture: A C3g without the metal shield run at a plate voltage of 425V:


----------



## UntilThen

All very nice pictures and for once my life's back to normal.


----------



## leftside

Fascinating read by a guy who used to work at GEC/MOV. I don't think I've posted this before, as there is a lot of talk on the marstan thread about the KT66, and up until recently this wasn't a tube that could be used with Glenn's amps:
http://forum.marstran.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=130


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Fascinating read by a guy who used to work at GEC/MOV. I don't think I've posted this before, as there is a lot of talk on the marstan thread about the KT66, and up until recently this wasn't a tube that could be used with Glenn's amps:
> http://forum.marstran.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=130



The GEC KT66 is currently the god tier set of tubes for the TRP DAC.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> The GEC KT66 is currently the god tier set of tubes for the TRP DAC.


I'm just waiting for someone to try the GEC KT88 

@2359glenn will the 6V6/6L6/KT66/EL34 amp also be able to take a KT88 or 6550?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KT88


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 1, 2019)

I have eyed some GEC and Mullard KT66 tubes

Deyan has remade my adapters and they are now on their long journey to Ohio.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> I'm just waiting for someone to try the GEC KT88



Wow! Those arent cheap!


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I'm just waiting for someone to try the GEC KT88
> 
> @2359glenn will the 6V6/6L6/KT66/EL34 amp also be able to take a KT88 or 6550?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KT88



The Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP that I had before could use KT88, KT120, KT150 or EL34 by way of a switch.

I’m sure Glenn could get that going if you wanted it. 

The PL sounded pretty good with my HD800.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> I'm just waiting for someone to try the GEC KT88
> 
> @2359glenn will the 6V6/6L6/KT66/EL34 amp also be able to take a KT88 or 6550?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KT88



The KT88 will work but sort of a waist with the right voltage and transformer a single triode connected KT88 can deliver 27 watts at low distortion.
A pair in push pull can deliver 100 watts.
Why put it in a amp that is going to deliver 8 watts? It will have very low distortion driving a higher impedance load in this amp.
I am going to build a amp for someone that is made for the KT88 and the new KT150 to get the full potential of these tubes.
Really can't believe the KT66 is used in a DAC to drive what? A 10K ohm input of a amp. Bet it has low distortion though.
A pair of KT66 can easily make 50 watts in push pull


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Really can't believe the KT66 is used in a DAC to drive what?


https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/lampizator-golden-atlantic-trp.27809/page-10#post-588974


----------



## UntilThen

I’ve only use KT88 in the PL and it’s really a speaker amp first. Headphone output is just a bonus. Never got around to try the EL34 in it before I sold it. 

Most would say the EL34 sounds better but with slightly less power compared to KT88. Has a lovely mids. 

KT150 is a monster.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> The KT88 will work but sort of a waist with the right voltage and transformer a single triode connected KT88 can deliver 27 watts at low distortion.
> A pair in push pull can deliver 100 watts.
> Why put it in a amp that is going to deliver 8 watts? It will have very low distortion driving a higher impedance load in this amp.
> I am going to build a amp for someone that is made for the KT88 and the new KT150 to get the full potential of these tubes.
> ...


The question had to be asked  The KT88's with my mono tube amps on the bench measure close to 90 watts per channel. 2 per amp - total of 4 tubes.

I bet these tubes will last forever in a DAC.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> The question had to be asked  The KT88's with my mono tube amps on the bench measure close to 90 watts per channel. 2 per amp - total of 4 tubes.
> 
> I bet these tubes will last forever in a DAC.



Yes barley being used the filament might burn out before the tube gets week 

That is in push pull class AB1 up to 100 watts


----------



## 2359glenn

GEC KT88s are almost as expensive as 300Bs


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 1, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> The configuration you have there is very good. I like the idea of using a single 6sn7. In my case, I would be able to use some of my best drivers:-
> 
> Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
> Mullard ECC33
> ...


I'm not sure there would be any benefit to go the ECC31 / 33 route nor even presume there would be merit for a switch to also drive the more exotic B36, FDD20, etc. The years having 6SN7 drivers on my F.A. amps have taught me how extremely diverse this class is, with adapters I can also run a wide range of 9-pin novals such as ECC88, 6N23P, 12AV7 (specially wired adapter), 6CG7 and many EL series such as EL32 and EL11, not to mention 6N7, 7N7 and dual 6J5 and native 6SN7 which should give me more than enough driver tuning options.

I will definitely be keen to mix / match tubes in the power slots... perhaps 2x EL34 with 2x GEC KT66. As long as they are compatible with adapters and not likely to short circuit anything - you know me I'm the adventurous type. I would however use precaution to make sure no signs of anything awry such as unusual heat / noises and unplug the headphones when powering up.



Deyan said:


> The idea is already there. The thing is that no one has asked for such a thing. I don't have the funds to make things in advance.


Hi Deyan I hope not to cause any misunderstanding. I meant I will order adapters (and pay in advance) for quite a few of these, but that may still be after 1-2 months from now.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 1, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> (...)
> Jupiters caps - if budget is tight skip this. My GOTL Russian paper in oil caps sounds lovely.
> (...)
> So set yourself a budget and go with what you're comfortable. Don't forget you still have to spend $999 for that pair of sexy blue Zu Omen that will make your weekends very dirty.


My experience with F.A. amps has also taught me the difference premium quality internals makes so I'm also going with the Jupiter coupling caps just in case they may sound even better than the stock caps.

For the speakers, those do sound interesting but I was looking for more "bookshelf monitors", like something that can fit on a desk for a small room and around 1/2 the cost as those above mini-tower speakers.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> GEC KT88s are almost as expensive as 300Bs


Not the WE ones. LOL


----------



## UntilThen

Pack up ready to go to for sale. I'm returning to iPod and earbuds.


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> My experience with F.A. amps has also taught me the difference premium quality internals makes so I'm also going with the Jupiter coupling caps just in case they may sound even better than the stock caps.
> 
> For the speakers, those do sound interesting but I was looking for more "bookshelf monitors", like something that can fit on a desk for a small room and around 1/2 the cost as those above mini-tower speakers.


Hi DL,
If you want the most bang for the buck in speakers, I would recommend the Elac Debut B6. They have been compared favorably to speakers costing 5x more. However, there is a new model out of this speaker but I haven't heard it. The price is right - around $300/pair.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Pack up ready to go to for sale. I'm returning to iPod and earbuds.


What happened?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> What happened?



End of interest. Meltdown. I'm going to Angkhor Wat to meditate.


----------



## UntilThen

But the gear refuse to leave so I threw away the earbuds.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Pack up ready to go to for sale. I'm returning to iPod and earbuds.


 April is a long ways away.



UntilThen said:


> End of interest. Meltdown. I'm going to Angkhor Wat to meditate.



Angkor Wat is a fantastic place to meditate,but I really do hope youre kidding....Deep breaths. Walk away. Go kill some stuff in Destiny 2 and come back later.


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> End of interest. Meltdown. I'm going to Angkhor Wat to meditate.



Why don't you just take a Picnic at Hanging Rock?


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Go kill some stuff in Destiny 2 and come back later.



U gonna play Borderlands 3?


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Why don't you just take a Picnic at Hanging Rock?



I prefer picnic at Bondi. Beautiful scenery and people.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> But the gear refuse to leave so I threw away the earbuds.


OK - I got it. You had to take apart everything for the new rack and took a picture to play a joke on us......


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> U gonna play Borderlands 3?


 Nah. I tried BL Handsome Collection and just couldnt get into it. Im hoping the big DLC in Oct. for D2 will be keeping me interested until Cyberpunk 2077 comes out. The Outer Worlds and Death Stranding dropping soon too.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok I have a dilemma now. I don't know which amp to plug Verite into now. Very soon I'll be like her.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> OK - I got it. You had to take apart everything for the new rack and took a picture to play a joke on us......


 The nerve of some people.

@UntilThen go stand in the corner. Time out for you buddy.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> go stand in the corner. Time out for you buddy.



Don't you need a partner for Destiny 2? I am good at Destiny 2.


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 2, 2019)

Not to try and make you folks spend more cash,but the Verite closed is really nice! I think I prefer the Auteur leather pads on it. Clear snappy sound. Impossible staging for a closed back.
 I havent a/b'd vs the Verite open yet cuz im afraid I will want to buy it.

This sounds ridiculously good on it!


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Don't you need a partner for Destiny 2? I am good at Destiny 2.



Dont you know I solo raids? Dude im a D2 badass!

You on PS4 or XBone?


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> You on PS4 or XBone?



I'm on Gotham and Studio Sex. Never heard of PS4 and XBone amps.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Not to try and make you folks spend more cash,but the Verite closed is really nice! I think I prefer the Auteur pads on it. Clear snappy sound. Impossible staging for a closed back.
> I havent a/b'd vs the Verite open yet cuz im afraid I will want to buy it.



I like details and clarity with a bit of body fat. Verite Open sounds very good to me now on Sansui, GOTL or Studio Six. Incredible synergy with these amps. I can totally loose a whole day just listening to music with these. 

Now if Verite C can do better than that, I'll go totally bananas.


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 2, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I like details and clarity with a bit of body fat. Verite Open sounds very good to me now on Sansui, GOTL or Studio Six. Incredible synergy with these amps. I can totally loose a whole day just listening to music with these.
> 
> Now if Verite C can do better than that, I'll go totally bananas.



Initial impressions of the Auteur suede pads gives it a bassy,warmer sound. Sounded like a more intimate presentation. The Universe non-perf pads are brighter than the suede, has more bass than the Auteur leather. Auteur leather is what im liking at the moment. Super tight,crazy good imaging and detail. Still has good bass,but its reeled in a bit vs. the other two pads.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Initial impressions of the Auteur suede pads gives it a bassy,warmer sound. Sounded like a more intimate presentation. The Universe non-perf pads are brighter than the suede, has more bass than the Auteur leather. Auteur leather is what im liking at the moment. Super tight,crazy good imaging and detail. Still has good bass,but its reeled in a bit vs. the other two pads.



Have you tried the BE2 pads wit the Verite MZ?


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Have you tried the BE2 pads wit the Verite MZ?


 Not yet. I have them here. I will give them a go tomorrow. After rolling all three pads that came with the VC tonight I need a pad rolling break.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Initial impressions of the Auteur suede pads gives it a bassy,warmer sound. Sounded like a more intimate presentation. *The Universe non-perf pads are brighter* than the suede, has more bass than the Auteur leather. Auteur leather is what im liking at the moment. *Super tight,crazy good imaging and detail. Still has good bass,but its reeled in a bit* vs. the other two pads.



Bingo. Quoting your words which I highlight in bold. That's what I'm looking for.

On the first day with Verite O, it had on the Universe sloping pads. On first listen, my head told me this is rather pronounced in bass and warm and the top end is dial back a bit. I wish it's less bassy, slightly less warm and the top end open up more. On the 2nd day, I change to Verite flat perforated lambskin pads. Voila, my wish came through. Since then the flat pads have remain and Verite O have open up more day by day. Transients are fast, snappy rhythm with an infectious mid bass kick. The warmth is just right and the texture is spot on. However I am going to go through the whole 150 hours burning process. I expect more magic to happen.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> On the first day with Verite O, it had on the Universe sloping pads. On first listen, my head told me this is rather pronounced in bass and warm and the top end is dial back a bit. I wish it's less bassy, slightly less warm and the top end open up more. On the 2nd day, I change to Verite flat perforated lambskin pads. Voila, my wish came through. Since then the flat pads have remain and Verite O have open up more day by day. Transients are fast, snappy rhythm with an infectious mid bass kick. The warmth is just right and the texture is spot on. However I am going to go through the whole 150 hours burning process. I expect more magic to happen.



In my system the Universe leather perf is warmer and bassier,but its also more holographic sounding than the other pads. I love the holographic imaging on the VO,and will roll in specific tubes to accentuate it,even if its uber warm. The brighter the tubes I use,the 3D imaging collapses.

I currently have a six pack of 6BX7s/Ken Rad VT-231/GEC 18/20,which is a punchy slamming roll. Not a 3D roll,for me anyways. At some point after more burn-in I will roll in a more holographic combo and compare the depth of the VC vs VO. Tonight im just jamming on the tunes. My foot is tapping,which is always a great thing.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> In my system the Universe leather perf is warmer and bassier,but its also more holographic sounding than the other pads. I love the holographic imaging on the VO,and will roll in specific tubes to accentuate it,even if its uber warm. The brighter the tubes I use,the 3D imaging collapses.
> 
> I currently have a six pack of 6BX7s/Ken Rad VT-231/GEC 18/20,which is a punchy slamming roll. Not a 3D roll,for me anyways. At some point after more burn-in I will roll in a more holographic combo and compare the depth of the VC vs VO. Tonight im just jamming on the tunes. My foot is tapping,which is always a great thing.



Ok I can see we're looking for different things but that's ok. It's personal preference. Sextet 6BX7 with Sylvania 6sn7w metal base is what I am having in GOTL. It's pretty much my resident tubes. Firstly this combo is ultra quiet. Don't ask me how but it is. Secondly, transient attack is great, good speed, not particularly bass heavy but bass is taut, tight and have good control. Details and clarity are very good. This is my preference. Verite is alive and not only is the foot tapping. A lot more is happening.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 2, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> I'm not sure there would be any benefit to go the ECC31 / 33 route nor even presume there would be merit for a switch to also drive the more exotic B36, FDD20, etc. The years having 6SN7 drivers on my F.A. amps have taught me how extremely diverse this class is, with adapters I can also run a wide range of 9-pin novals such as ECC88, 6N23P, 12AV7 (specially wired adapter), 6CG7 and many EL series such as EL32 and EL11, not to mention 6N7, 7N7 and dual 6J5 and native 6SN7 which should give me more than enough driver tuning options.
> 
> I will definitely be keen to mix / match tubes in the power slots... perhaps 2x EL34 with 2x GEC KT66. As long as they are compatible with adapters and not likely to short circuit anything - you know me I'm the adventurous type. I would however use precaution to make sure no signs of anything awry such as unusual heat / noises and unplug the headphones when powering up.


BTW I hope I didn't come off as careless saying I would be keen to mix / match compatible tube types with / without adapters in the 4x power slots - I meant to say just as long as @2359glenn has no strong advisory against it?

PS - UT, how do you possibly change tubes with such narrow space above?


----------



## Monsterzero

DecentLevi said:


> PS - UT, how do you possibly change tubes with such narrow space above?


 Damn good question!
I disassembled my rack and re-arranged the height of each shelf to allow rolling on my DAC and amp. Looks like UT will bust up a lot of tubes. Either that he will keep his word that he gave earlier in the week to quit rolling.
Im guessing a bunch of smashed tubes.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Ok I can see we're looking for different things but that's ok. It's personal preference. Sextet 6BX7 with Sylvania 6sn7w metal base is what I am having in GOTL. It's pretty much my resident tubes. Firstly this combo is ultra quiet. Don't ask me how but it is. Secondly, transient attack is great, good speed, not particularly bass heavy but bass is taut, tight and have good control. Details and clarity are very good. This is my preference. Verite is alive and not only is the foot tapping. A lot more is happening.



The GZ32/RCA6080/TSBGRP is stupid warm but the depth on that roll is crazy on the Verite. Youve never heard Pink Floyd 'WYWH' album until youve tried that roll


----------



## UntilThen

Alright will try that when I get back. Love Pink Floyd.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> PS - UT, how do you possibly change tubes with such narrow space above?



I don’t change tubes no more. Or I change tubes once a month. 

I have to pull out the amp to change tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> The GZ32/RCA6080/TSBGRP is stupid warm but the depth on that roll is crazy on the Verite. Youve never heard Pink Floyd 'WYWH' album until youve tried that roll



Alright I left GOTL running with my reference tubes but I change Studio Six to :-

Brimar 6sn7gt black glass
RCA 6V6gt grey glass
Raytheon OB2
Mullard GZ34 - Blackburn factory

The RCA 6V6gt grey glass has a similar tone to RCA 6sn7gt grey glass but with more impact and force naturally. It's the warmest 6v6gt power tubes I have. Mullard gz34 is also warm according to @gibosi and my ears concur.

Now listening to 'Shine On You Crazy Diamonds' Pink Floyd - 'Wish You Were Here' album on Tidal HiFi.

Veeeeeryy veeery good tone.  Verite is giving me goosebumps at the same time the details are startling. 

Next I'm compel to roll in some warm tubes on GOTL like you suggest. I brought all my tubes here. Let's see what I can find.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Next I'm compel to roll in some warm tubes on GOTL like you suggest. I brought all my tubes here. Let's see what I can find.


 It will be warmth overload,but roll the Universe pads too. 
The Sittard GZ34 I have doesnt do the depth on the Verite the same as the GZ32 FWIW.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> It will be warmth overload,but roll the Universe pads too.
> The Sittard GZ34 I have doesnt do the depth on the Verite the same as the GZ32 FWIW.



I'm not sure I want to revert back to the Universe pads....

Sittard GZ34 and Mullard GZ34 blackburn factory are not similar sounding rectifiers. The former is suppose to be equivalent to the Mullard GZ34 metal base tonally. The latter has a warmer tone but as I understand it from gibosi, the Mullard GZ32 is the warmest.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I'm not sure I want to revert back to the Universe pads....
> 
> Sittard GZ34 and Mullard GZ34 blackburn factory are not similar sounding rectifiers. The former is suppose to be equivalent to the Mullard GZ34 metal base tonally. The latter has a warmer tone but as I understand it from gibosi, the Mullard GZ32 is the warmest.


 Not having heard the metal base nor the Blackburn GZ34 I cannot comment,but the GZ32 is much warmer than the Sittard GZ34.

The Universe pads will give you that depth that the other pads wont. I think it was @Phantaminum that mentioned that with the Verite pads it comes pretty close to sounding like an Auteur,and I agree with that. I use the most neutral pads on the Auteur,and the warmest pads on the Verite to give me the biggest variation in sound between the two.

But geez,this VC is killing me right now...Its 3:20 in the am here and I dont wanna take these off of my skull!


----------



## UntilThen

Just realised that I didn't bring RCA 6as7g and RCA 6080 with me. In their absence, I'll use Ken Rad 1633 and Bendix 6080wb. Reluctantly I'll switch to Universe pads and I'll play some dubstep music .


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> I'm not sure I want to revert back to the Universe pads....
> 
> Sittard GZ34 and Mullard GZ34 blackburn factory are not similar sounding rectifiers. The former is suppose to be equivalent to the Mullard GZ34 metal base tonally. The latter has a warmer tone but as I understand it from gibosi, the Mullard GZ32 is the warmest.





Monsterzero said:


> Not having heard the metal base nor the Blackburn GZ34 I cannot comment,but the GZ32 is much warmer than the Sittard GZ34.



I have both the Mullard GZ32 (Brown base) and the Sittard GZ34 (which @UntilThen kindly sold to me) and can confirm that the Mullard GZ32 is indeed warmer. In fact its quite a bit warmer. To be honest, I don't really like the Mullard GZ32 in the GEL3N. On the other hand, the Sittard GZ34 is wonderful and before I had my WE422A, it was my go to rectifier tube.

Have fun guys!


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> I have both the Mullard GZ32 and the Sittard GZ34 (which @UntilThen kindly sold to me) and can confirm that the Mullard GZ32 is indeed warmer. In fact its quite a bit warmer. To be honest, I don't really like the Mullard GZ32 in the GEL3N. On the other hand, the Sittard GZ34 is wonderful and before I had my WE422A, it was my go to rectifier tube.
> 
> Have fun guys!



My pleasure Sam. You just enjoy the Sittard. You have too much indulgence. That WE422A will give you sleepless nights.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> My pleasure Sam. You just enjoy the Sittard. You have too much indulgence. That WE422A will give you sleepless nights.



Thanks Matt! What's one tube less in your awesome collection right?


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Thanks Matt! What's one tube less in your awesome collection right?



For you I will not moan the lost of the Sittard.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 2, 2019)

Verite has the Universe thick perforated sloping pads now. GOTL has Ken Rad 1633 and Bendix 6080wb and Studio Six has Brimar 6sn7gt bgrp and RCA 6V6gt grey glass and Mullard GZ34. Both tube amps configured for warmth.

Playing 'Forever Autumn' from the War of the Worlds album. Richard Burton masculine voice comes through deep and strong. There's warm galore but the details are so clear. The mids sparkle and the high notes shines. It's warm and clear. I did not expect to like this but I did. Not only did I like it but love it. Like the martians advancing, there is no retreat but to embrace it. Verite is a chameleon. It's good in all it's shades of tone.

Well Monster, I bet you're slump over your desk now, the VC still on your head but you are right, warmth on Verite can be just as enjoyable. Ooooo the bass is now voluptuous.


----------



## UntilThen

What the... I won another pair of Siemens EL11. Must have bid on it 10 days ago. No more EL11. I've EL11s coming out of my ears.


----------



## UntilThen

Ha playing 'Pain' by War On Drugs, this is surreal. I've never use the word holographic much and refuse to use it until I can feel the music in it. It is holographic now. The hairs on the arms starting to rise. Verite with GOTL and Ken Rad 1633 / Bendix 6080wb is a moment of reckoning.


----------



## UntilThen

3 hours ago I didn't want to put on the Universe pad to make it warmer. Now I have it on, I don't want to remove it. It's a strange, strange world.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Bingo. Quoting your words which I highlight in bold. That's what I'm looking for.
> 
> On the first day with Verite O, it had on the Universe sloping pads. On first listen, my head told me this is rather pronounced in bass and warm and the top end is dial back a bit. I wish it's less bassy, slightly less warm and the top end open up more. On the 2nd day, I change to Verite flat perforated lambskin pads. Voila, my wish came through. Since then the flat pads have remain and Verite O have open up more day by day. Transients are fast, snappy rhythm with an infectious mid bass kick. The warmth is just right and the texture is spot on. However I am going to go through the whole 150 hours burning process. I expect more magic to happen.




Ha...we are complete opposites....I like different tones...but prefer +bass if done right and a tad less air up top


----------



## whirlwind

@Monsterzero how does the sub bass compare between the open and closed Verite

@UntilThen ...Matt you are going to need to customize that rack...you will get tired of pulling those heavy amps out to change tubes....can you some how raise the shelve's


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> @Monsterzero how does the sub bass compare between the open and closed Verite
> 
> @UntilThen ...Matt you are going to need to customize that rack...you will get tired of pulling those heavy amps out to change tubes....can you some how raise the shelve's



I'm comparing Verite with LCD-3f. Sub bass definitely better on LCD-3f. Mid bass is where Verite shines. Overall Verite has a more pleasing tone. You just settle down and listen to music with Verite and you can do that for hours without feeling fatigued. If I had to choose just one headphone out of the 3 that I have, it would be Verite. It would be my daily driver.

On the question of the rack, I'm not too concerned. I don't see myself changing tubes much now. There's only one change of tubes today and it will remain for several weeks before I change again. The 3 amps that I have are different tonally. If I need a change, I just plug Verite into another amp.  That's rolling amp.  All connected to Yggdrasil. Sansui via xlr. The other 2 via RCAs.

I find the Brimar 6sn7 and Bendix 6080wb a very good pairing with Verite. Something I did not expect. Verite with the warmer Universe pads is also acceptable to me now and mid bass has a good kick. Much better than with the flat pads. The top end is very clear but also very soothing. Vocals on Verite is superb.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> @Monsterzero how does the sub bass compare between the open and closed Verite
> 
> @UntilThen ...Matt you are going to need to customize that rack...you will get tired of pulling those heavy amps out to change tubes....can you some how raise the shelve's



Really interested to hear open/closed comparisons too, @Monsterzero .  I'm sure you're planning to put your thoughts down somewhere YouTube maybe?  I think I will be making a final decision between the two at ZMFestivus.  Having not heard either yet, I have a feeling I will go for the closed.  If it is as open sounding as everyone says, I think being closed back is only an advantage.  Will also make it more differentiated from the Auteur.

Another question is, will there be a place for the Atticus with the Vérité Closed around...


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Ha playing 'Pain' by War On Drugs, this is surreal. I've never use the word holographic much and refuse to use it until I can feel the music in it. It is holographic now. The hairs on the arms starting to rise. Verite with GOTL and Ken Rad 1633 / Bendix 6080wb is a moment of reckoning.



Bendix is nice with Verite,but doesnt do the depth like RCA 608. RCA gives off some flab in bass,which I personally do not like,but with good clean mastering,and non speedy songs,its very nice.



whirlwind said:


> @Monsterzero how does the sub bass compare between the open and closed Verite  I will get to it tonight. Burn-in going on during the day. After the wife goes to bed is when the headphones come on.
> Comparing the VO vs. VC will be a bit difficult as my preferred pads for VO,do not work on the VC.
> 
> @UntilThen ...Matt you are going to need to customize that rack...you will get tired of pulling those heavy amps out to change tubes....can you some how raise the shelve's


I will get to it tonight. Burn-in going on during the day. After the wife goes to bed is when the headphones come on. 
Comparing the VO vs. VC will be a bit difficult as my preferred pads for VO,do not work on the VC.



L0rdGwyn said:


> Really interested to hear open/closed comparisons too, @Monsterzero .  I'm sure you're planning to put your thoughts down somewhere YouTube maybe?  I think I will be making a final decision between the two at ZMFestivus.  Having not heard either yet, I have a feeling I will go for the closed.  If it is as open sounding as everyone says, I think being closed back is only an advantage.  Will also make it more differentiated from the Auteur.
> 
> Another question is, will there be a place for the Atticus with the Vérité Closed around...


 With the Auteur leather pads,it sounds nothing like the Atticus. If you want warmth and plus bass on the VC,you will want the Auteur suede.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Bendix is nice with Verite,but doesnt do the depth like RCA 608. RCA gives off some flab in bass,which I personally do not like,but with good clean mastering,and non speedy songs,its very nice.
> 
> 
> I will get to it tonight. Burn-in going on during the day. After the wife goes to bed is when the headphones come on.
> ...





Monsterzero said:


> Bendix is nice with Verite,but doesnt do the depth like RCA 608. RCA gives off some flab in bass,which I personally do not like,but with good clean mastering,and non speedy songs,its very nice.
> 
> 
> I will get to it tonight. Burn-in going on during the day. After the wife goes to bed is when the headphones come on.
> ...





Monsterzero said:


> Bendix is nice with Verite,but doesnt do the depth like RCA 608. RCA gives off some flab in bass,which I personally do not like,but with good clean mastering,and non speedy songs,its very nice.
> 
> 
> I will get to it tonight. Burn-in going on during the day. After the wife goes to bed is when the headphones come on.
> ...


Hi M0,
_"RCA 6080 gives off some flab in bass"_
Agree with you, but did you try both the Bendix and the RCA? IMHO they complement each other and bring out the best characteristics of both - warmth and tone of the RCA and the tight bass of the Bendix.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Hi M0,
> _"RCA 6080 gives off some flab in bass"_
> Agree with you, but did you try both the Bendix and the RCA? IMHO they complement each other and bring out the best characteristics of both - warmth and tone of the RCA and the tight bass of the Bendix.



I did try that combo per your rec a few nights ago. It was way too fuzzy sounding for me. You had mentioned it was most likely due to my GOTL having tube rectification. I have a plug-in HEXFRED,but I havent gotten around to trying that combo yet. Its a real challenge to get me to remove my GEC 18/20.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I did try that combo per your rec a few nights ago. It was way too fuzzy sounding for me. You had mentioned it was most likely due to my GOTL having tube rectification. I have a plug-in HEXFRED,but I havent gotten around to trying that combo yet. Its a real challenge to get me to remove my GEC 18/20.


I do not have any experience with tube rectifiers so I cannot make any such statements. But I know the feeling when you find a combination that you really like - there is a reluctance to pull out the tubes and change them.....
And somehow I found that when switching back it takes a while for the amp to sound the way you remember it. Don't know what it is - it is almost as if the amp has to adjust again.
Anybody else experienced this?


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Bendix is nice with Verite,but doesnt do the depth like RCA 608. *RCA gives off some flab in bass*,which I personally do not like,but with good clean mastering,and non speedy songs,its very nice.



Glad both you and Mordy pick that up too. That's my impression when I had my time with RCA 6080. A bit grainy too. RCA 6080 is still tighter in tone than RCA 6as7g. I'll bring them on the next trip just to try with the next headphone.


----------



## UntilThen

Waking up this morning and listening to music with Verite with Studio Six and GOTL. The euphony that I experience last night is still right there. I wasn't dreaming. Both amps blending with Verite in the most enjoyable way. GOTL with Bendix takes a bit of warm up time to settle down. Initially on start up there's some slight hum. After 30 mins, it's silent. Very nice.


----------



## attmci

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-300B-Tube-Base-Base-Only/392409037429

A WE 300B.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> I do not have any experience with tube rectifiers so I cannot make any such statements. But I know the feeling when you find a combination that you really like - there is a reluctance to pull out the tubes and change them.....
> And somehow I found that when switching back it takes a while for the amp to sound the way you remember it. Don't know what it is - it is almost as if the amp has to adjust again.
> Anybody else experienced this?


It will be difficult to perform tube rolling and VC-VO comparison at the same time.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> It will be difficult to perform tube rolling and VC-VO comparison at the same time.


Add in the fact I just upgraded tubes for my DAC as well.

By the time the VC is burned-in,so will my DAC,tubes for the DAC as well. I will roll different tubes throughout the process of comparing,keeping the same roll in for both per day.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 2, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> What the... I won another pair of Siemens EL11. Must have bid on it 10 days ago. No more EL11. I've EL11s coming out of my ears.


Good Lord UT, are all those EL11's just for your planned EL3N / EL34 amp?? I'm sure you've noticed that EL11's are supposed to be driver tubes, right? Both EL11 / 12 can work as either but it's the EL12's are better suited as powers.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Good Lord UT, are all those EL11's just for your planned EL3N / EL34 amp?? I'm sure you've noticed that EL11's are supposed to be driver tubes, right? Both EL11 / 12 can work as either but it's the EL12's are better suited as powers.



My plans have changed. My final amp will be a Glenn 300b amp to compliment Studio Six and GOTL. That would be the end and the 300b amp would be for my next birthday in April 2020. Thereafter I can go to Angkor Wat.

I do have a lot of EL11, EL12, EL12N, EL12 spez all NOS and new. I’ll just hang them on the Christmas tree.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> My plans have changed. My final amp will be a Glenn 300b amp to compliment Studio Six and GOTL. That would be the end and the 300b amp would be for my next birthday in April 2020. Thereafter I can go to Angkor Wat.
> 
> I do have a lot of EL11, EL12, EL12N, EL12 spez all NOS and new. I’ll just hang them on the Christmas tree.



......... until a KT88/EL34 amp comes along...


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> ......... until a KT88/EL34 amp comes along...



No never ever or slash wrists. 300b amp is final. There is nothing else after.

I’ll leave KT88 and EL34 for you.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> No never ever or slash wrists. 300b amp is final. There is nothing else after.
> 
> I’ll leave KT88 and EL34 for you.



Are the re-issue WE 300b available for purchase already? 

Hej! How did you know what I was plotting?


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Good Lord UT, are all those EL11's just for your planned EL3N / EL34 amp?? I'm sure you've noticed that EL11's are supposed to be driver tubes, right? Both EL11 / 12 can work as either but it's the EL12's are better suited as powers.


You can never have enough EL tubes:


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Are the re-issue WE 300b available for purchase already?
> 
> Hej! How did you know what I was plotting?



Don’t think the WE 300b are rolling off the plant yet and a pair of Takatsuki 300b makes my eyes water at AUD$5600 from Addicted To Audio.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Don’t think the WE 300b are rolling off the plant yet and a pair of Takatsuki 300b makes my eyes water at AUD$5600 from Addicted To Audio.


You can get them for far cheaper than that:
https://www.partsconnexion.com/TSUKI-81942.html

Might as well face the inevitable. You're going to end up with a GOTL, GEL3N (or GEL34) and a 300B. You could spend your money on far, far worse things and these things should at least hold their value. I've had Mac analog gear go UP in price (sorry @Monsterzero the same won't be true for our DACs).


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> @Monsterzero how does the sub bass compare between the open and closed Verite
> 
> @UntilThen ...Matt you are going to need to customize that rack...you will get tired of pulling those heavy amps out to change tubes....can you some how raise the shelve's



Just did an a/b on the VO vs VC for sub bass. Using Auteur leather pads on VC,and Universe leather perf pads on VO(my two preferred pads respectively)

Used this track.

 

The sub bass on the VC is noticeably more visceral vs. VO. The VC is still slightly brighter as well.

Sylvania 12sn7/ GEC 6as7g /Mullard GZ34

This roll is okay,nothing spectacular for the VC. It really likes 6bx7s( sorry about your wallet @UntilThen )

Im beginning to think I like the VC more than the VO!


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 3, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi M0,
> _"RCA 6080 gives off some flab in bass"_
> Agree with you, but did you try both the Bendix and the RCA? IMHO they complement each other and bring out the best characteristics of both - warmth and tone of the RCA and the tight bass of the Bendix.


That's interesting, I discovered the same pairing as well - even by random chance on an adapted multi-tube combo on the Euforia amp. RCA 6080 + Bendix 6080 yields some amazing bass definition / dynamics and spot on tonality, wonderful for rhythmic genres. I also found that throwing in a pair of TunG-Sol 6BL7 takes the above to even better refinement in all ways (6x power tubes). YMMV on another amp though.

And I've decided I like either Bendix or GEC 6080 better than Mullard. And for Sylvania 6080, those are basically disposable.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> I've had Mac analog gear go UP in price (sorry @Monsterzero the same won't be true for our DACs).



Yeah,used McIntosh gear is insanely expensive. Ive been lusting after a Mac 4100 to do nearfield and Sextett duty for a cpl years. Oddly my bank account keeps getting emptied on other things.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 3, 2019)

Hey do you guys know if the Glenn amps have any sort of circuit trip protection? As tube amp hobbyists know, the journey can occasionally be interrupted in a very alarming, even damaging way in the off event that a tube should decide to give in... luckily many I've read about here go down quietly but some (at least with other amps, and not yet on mine) put up a fight and go out with a BANG. I very much don't mean to cast a shadow over Glenn's fine work but this may be a risk for tube amps regardless of manufacture. Certainly I already take precautions such as disconnecting headphones on power-up especially with new tubes... as well as knowledge of 'warning signs' from a bad tube but I just though maybe there's some sort of optional or even standard trip-prevention mechanism of sorts to prevent damage to hearing or headphone drivers in the rare instance of this occurring?

Also Glenn or anyone here, do your amps come with the recommended rectifier tube already, or is that something I should arrange myself? I already have / will have most of the driver & power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> You can get them for far cheaper than that:
> https://www.partsconnexion.com/TSUKI-81942.html
> 
> Might as well face the inevitable. You're going to end up with a GOTL, GEL3N (or GEL34) and a 300B. You could spend your money on far, far worse things and these things should at least hold their value. I've had Mac analog gear go UP in price (sorry @Monsterzero the same won't be true for our DACs).



Thanks for the link. That’s a good price for Tak 300b.

Don’t worry. I have place an order for a new rack that will house 12 amps. I’ll just need a ladder to reach the top amp.

Jokes aside, thanks for the pic of your 300b. It’s beautifulllllll


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> The sub bass on the VC is noticeably more visceral vs. VO. The VC is still slightly brighter as well.
> 
> Sylvania 12sn7/ GEC 6as7g /Mullard GZ34
> 
> ...



Mr Monster, I've just swapped out Goldie for *Bass*et Hound. If you like bass and warm, you have to listen to the Sansui AU-717 driving Verite Open or LCD-3f. This is the Hercules of bass.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> @UntilThen ...Matt you are going to need to customize that rack...you will get tired of pulling those heavy amps out to change tubes....can you some how raise the shelve's



You wish is my command. Goldie is taken off the rack. GOTL is still in an awkward position at the bottom. I would have to invest in a proper HiFi rack. Could have taken my home rack but I wanted to leave that at home. Home meaning Sydney.

The rack at home.


----------



## UntilThen

@leftside I really like the look of your Glenn 300b amp. @TonyNewman  says it sounds incredible with Verite Open. I have no doubt it will be.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 3, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Just did an a/b on the VO vs VC for sub bass. Using Auteur leather pads on VC,and Universe leather perf pads on VO(my two preferred pads respectively)
> 
> Used this track.
> 
> ...





Thanks much for this Monster.  In my mind my thought was more visceral in the closed can...seems to hold true most of the time.
Thanks again.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Might as well face the inevitable. You're going to end up with a GOTL, GEL3N (or GEL34) and a 300B. You could spend your money on far, far worse things and these things should at least hold their value.



You make me smile with this statement but you're right about spending money on far, far worst things. Several years ago I was crazy about car audio. Not the doof doof boom boom kind. Ones that do Eva Cassidy justice. I blew 11k on 2 professional car installs just so I can take part in the car audio comp and I did win a rookie of the year trophy.


----------



## UntilThen

Speaking of Eva Cassidy. A talent gone too soon. Just listen to her rendition of 'Bridge Over Troubled Water' with Verite. I had to hug a pillow. Not even Art Garfunkel comes close.


----------



## UntilThen

I heard Eva Cassidy sing 'Bridge Over Troubled Water' on Studio Six and Verite Open. Studio Six has my best tubes. Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, 2 x Brimar CV511 (6V6 equivalent), Raytheon Ob2, GEC U52. In this rendition, I hug the pillow.

Then I switch over to GOTL and it has Mullard ECC33 with Tung Sol and RCA 6 x 6BX7gt. In this rendition, I hug the amp. 

Secretly I wanted Studio Six to sound better because it cost me more and the quality of construction is first class. Make no mistake, it's a great sounding amp. Probably the best I've heard. However each time I swapped over to GOTL, my jaws dropped. How can the GOTL sound better on Verite. Don't make no sense. Well it makes a lot of sense. If you have a GOTL with sextet 6BL7, it's a very unpretentious OTL amp but the sound, my word !!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 3, 2019)

After working the holiday weekend, it's time to kick back and relax on this Tuesday morning...NOT.  There is more work to be done....my decade-long student life is coming to an end in three months, it cannot come any sooner.

While I sit here and study, I've decided I need a break from the hyper-detailed and aggressive sound of the Tung-Sol 7802.  I need something more laid-back, a little more lush.  The Visseaux 6N7G and Bendix 6080WB are doing it for me right now with the Auteur.  Listening to Jon Hopkins - _Singularity_.


----------



## Xcalibur255

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks for the recommendation, will consider it. Would it sound just as well driven by an 8-ohm load, or would it be better to get a specific 12-ohm output on my amp for these? But then would a 12 ohm load drive most other 8 ohm speakers well also?



Consider Omega loudspeakers as well.  I got some customized CAM monitors from him recently and am quite pleased overall.  They are less forward than Zu speakers are and are a true single driver design..... no supertweeter.


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> And to come back to topic - my favorite tube picture: A C3g without the metal shield run at a plate voltage of 425V:


They look cool but I'm convinced that removing the cans screws up the way these tubes sound.  Yamamoto Soundcraft does it to the tubes they send stock with their amps, so maybe I'm crazy who knows, but I hear what I hear.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> After working the holiday weekend, it's time to kick back and relax on this Tuesday morning...NOT.  There is more work to be done....my decade-long student life is coming to an end in three months, it cannot come any sooner.
> 
> While I sit here and study, I've decided I need a break from the hyper-detailed and aggressive sound of the Tung-Sol 7802.  I need something more laid-back, a little more lush.  The Visseaux 6N7G and Bendix 6080WB are doing it for me right now with the Auteur.  Listening to Jon Hopkins - _Singularity_.



I’m so missing my GOTL right now. I’ve lent it to a friend/audiophile so he can listen to it and review it. It’s been out for two weeks and I won’t be getting it back this week but these pictures are making it hurt more, lol. 

It’s good timing though. I don’t have space for it and the other amps I currently have in the room. Once I send back the Toolshed Amp then my baby will be back in my arms.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> They look cool but I'm convinced that removing the cans screws up the way these tubes sound.  Yamamoto Soundcraft does it to the tubes they send stock with their amps, so maybe I'm crazy who knows, but I hear what I hear.


Hi X255,
Tube glow sells! That’s why I can still pick up all metal 6N7 tubes for less than $3.
We once had a salesman for high end hi fi on the Elise thread and he said that you cannot sell very expensive tube amps (in Europe) if they don’t have a strong tube glow (to impress your friends).....
All my ten C3g tubes wear the shield of honor except for one that I dissected after the fragile glass cracked.




I think that this is an enhanced light from more sources than the tube.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> I’m so missing my GOTL right now. I’ve lent it to a friend/audiophile so he can listen to it and review it. It’s been out for two weeks and I won’t be getting it back this week but these pictures are making it hurt more, lol.
> 
> It’s good timing though. I don’t have space for it and the other amps I currently have in the room. Once I send back the Toolshed Amp then my baby will be back in my arms.


Hi Phantaminum,
Isn't it amazing how attached you get to your equipment? And when something breaks or doesn't work right, it is a horrible feeling.....


----------



## jmac1516

mordy said:


> Hi X255,
> Tube glow sells! That’s why I can still pick up all metal 6N7 tubes for less than $3.
> We once had a salesman for high end hi fi on the Elise thread and he said that you cannot sell very expensive tube amps (in Europe) if they don’t have a strong tube glow (to impress your friends).....
> All my ten C3g tubes wear the shield of honor except for one that I dissected after the fragile glass cracked.
> ...



Hi Mordy, what brand C3g tubes do you have and any major audio difference between them that you can tell?  My GOTL build will have the C3g sockets but I have not sourced any C3g tubes yet.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> Isn't it amazing how attached you get to your equipment? And when something breaks or doesn't work right, it is a horrible feeling.....



No kidding. I thought I was a strong but I just want to sit down with the GOTL and say, “Ah, that’s the stuff right there”


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Isn't it amazing how attached you get to your equipment? And when something breaks or doesn't work right, it is a horrible feeling.....



I can't say that about any equipment but when my GOTL failed a week before Verite arrives, I was crashed. I was left with only the Sansui. Fortunately I found Will and FactoryAudio and the amp was fixed and now I get to enjoy it with the new headphone.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> While I sit here and study, I've decided I need a break from the hyper-detailed and aggressive sound of the Tung-Sol 7802. I need something more laid-back, a little more lush. The Visseaux 6N7G and Bendix 6080WB are doing it for me right now with the Auteur.



I've found that although I enjoy the 6bx7s in the power slots the most, the occasional change of tubes breaks the monotony of listening to the same sound and the change is welcome. That's why the GOTL is special.


----------



## UntilThen

jmac1516 said:


> Hi Mordy, what brand C3g tubes do you have and any major audio difference between them that you can tell?  My GOTL build will have the C3g sockets but I have not sourced any C3g tubes yet.



There are not too many variations of c3g. The more common variety are the Siemens c3g with printed lettering on top of the metal shield. These are the ones I have - 2 pairs of Siemens and 1 pair branded Telefunken - this is the supposedly better 's' suffix model but my ears cannot detect any noticeable difference or I did not bother trying to a/b it to the nth degree.

The other variety is the Lorenz c3g with the engraved wording on top of the metal shield. This is supposed to be less glossy in tone but again I did not bother trying it because I don't use the c3g much these days. Interesting that the seller states that the c3g are 300b drivers. I'm wondering how do they know? I've only seen c3g being used as drivers in Glenn 300b amp. I haven't seen it use in any other 300b amp. From those who love their Glenn 300b amp (that's literally everyone who owns it), the c3g and 300b tubes are just a super combination. I could actually imagine how that combination will sound.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lorenz-...734052?hash=item3f81ddc3a4:g:adUAAOSwkttZaEMb


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> I’m so missing my GOTL right now. I’ve lent it to a friend/audiophile so he can listen to it and review it. It’s been out for two weeks and I won’t be getting it back this week but these pictures are making it hurt more, lol.
> 
> It’s good timing though. I don’t have space for it and the other amps I currently have in the room. Once I send back the Toolshed Amp then my baby will be back in my arms.



This was me when I was without the Auteur.  Just know it will sound even better than remembered when you are reunited!


----------



## mordy

jmac1516 said:


> Hi Mordy, what brand C3g tubes do you have and any major audio difference between them that you can tell?  My GOTL build will have the C3g sockets but I have not sourced any C3g tubes yet.


Hi jmac1516,
I only have Siemens C3g tubes, including some older ones with embossed lettering. The Lorenz is supposed to sound darker. The C3g pentode sockets in the GOTL are a platform for me for using other pentodes such as the EL3N, EL6, EL8, EL11. EL12, EL32 etc, all with the appropriate adapters.
If you want to be adventurous there is another British made C3g type tube that to my knowledge nobody has tried yet - the STC 5A/152M. You will need special adapters since the pin-out is different than the C3g (but still loctal base - Deyan can make them). Not sure if they were made by a GEC subsidiary or not. Since there is less of a demand for them, the price is much less than the C3g tubes.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/1x-5A-152M-...413841?hash=item4436ef1351:g:c8EAAOSwtRNccsXZ

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5a152m.html

Let's face it, anything made in the Foots Cray factory got to be good.....


----------



## mordy

Here is a conversation piece for a tube lover:





This piece of art (oscilloscope CRT picture tube 5LP1A) can be yours for less than $50.
For the man who has everything.......


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> There are not too many variations of c3g. The more common variety are the Siemens c3g with printed lettering on top of the metal shield. These are the ones I have - 2 pairs of Siemens and 1 pair branded Telefunken - this is the supposedly better 's' suffix model but my ears cannot detect any noticeable difference or I did not bother trying to a/b it to the nth degree.
> 
> The other variety is the Lorenz c3g with the engraved wording on top of the metal shield. This is supposed to be less glossy in tone but again I did not bother trying it because I don't use the c3g much these days. Interesting that the seller states that the c3g are 300b drivers. I'm wondering how do they know? I've only seen c3g being used as drivers in Glenn 300b amp. I haven't seen it use in any other 300b amp. From those who love their Glenn 300b amp (that's literally everyone who owns it), the c3g and 300b tubes are just a super combination. I could actually imagine how that combination will sound.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lorenz-...734052?hash=item3f81ddc3a4:g:adUAAOSwkttZaEMb



A 6SN7 can't really drive the miller capacitance of a 300B. I know amp makers use them but I think a marketing thing everybody likes a 6SN7.
Plus they are still made.  So I tried other tubes first 6BM8/ECL82 didn't like the sound so much. Then tried a 6DN7 that is  close to 1/2 a 6SN7 and 1/2 6BL7.
But really couldn't find any good sounding ones. Then tried the C3g good sound with the sparkle on top end perfect.
The 6SN7 looses that sparkle on top with the miller capacitance loading down the highs this is why a more powerful driver is necessary.
Maybe I could use A 6SN7 driving a 6BL7 driving the 300B this way a good 6SN7 can be used. But this would mean a larger amp.


----------



## heliosphann

Anyone have any good tube storing solutions? I was thinking about some kind of plastic tubs with dividers or something?


----------



## jmac1516

mordy said:


> Hi jmac1516,
> I only have Siemens C3g tubes, including some older ones with embossed lettering. The Lorenz is supposed to sound darker. The C3g pentode sockets in the GOTL are a platform for me for using other pentodes such as the EL3N, EL6, EL8, EL11. EL12, EL32 etc, all with the appropriate adapters.
> If you want to be adventurous there is another British made C3g type tube that to my knowledge nobody has tried yet - the STC 5A/152M. You will need special adapters since the pin-out is different than the C3g (but still loctal base - Deyan can make them). Not sure if they were made by a GEC subsidiary or not. Since there is less of a demand for them, the price is much less than the C3g tubes.
> https://www.ebay.de/itm/1x-5A-152M-...413841?hash=item4436ef1351:g:c8EAAOSwtRNccsXZ
> ...


Thanks Mordy and UT for the fast track education on C3g tubes!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> A 6SN7 can't really drive the miller capacitance of a 300B. I know amp makers use them but I think a marketing thing everybody likes a 6SN7.
> Plus they are still made.  So I tried other tubes first 6BM8/ECL82 didn't like the sound so much. Then tried a 6DN7 that is  close to 1/2 a 6SN7 and 1/2 6BL7.
> But really couldn't find any good sounding ones. Then tried the C3g good sound with the sparkle on top end perfect.
> The 6SN7 looses that sparkle on top with the miller capacitance loading down the highs this is why a more powerful driver is necessary.
> Maybe I could use A 6SN7 driving a 6BL7 driving the 300B this way a good 6SN7 can be used. But this would mean a larger amp.



I've heard the c3g in the GOTL and I've heard the Takatsuki 300b tubes in the Woo Wa5. I've never heard the c3g and 300b tubes together but I am almost certain what a dynamite combination that would be. The c3g top end sparkle is excellent and clarity is outstanding, coupled that with the full sweet force of the 300b tubes, would be a recipe for the Three Tenors in the making.


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> A 6SN7 can't really drive the miller capacitance of a 300B. I know amp makers use them but I think a marketing thing everybody likes a 6SN7.
> Plus they are still made.  So I tried other tubes first 6BM8/ECL82 didn't like the sound so much. Then tried a 6DN7 that is  close to 1/2 a 6SN7 and 1/2 6BL7.
> But really couldn't find any good sounding ones. Then tried the C3g good sound with the sparkle on top end perfect.
> The 6SN7 looses that sparkle on top with the miller capacitance loading down the highs this is why a more powerful driver is necessary.
> Maybe I could use A 6SN7 driving a 6BL7 driving the 300B this way a good 6SN7 can be used. But this would mean a larger amp.



Out of curiosity, would two 6SN7s be enough? What about 12SL7s?


----------



## jmac1516 (Sep 3, 2019)

jmac1516 said:


> Thanks Mordy and UT for the fast track education on C3g tubes!



Now I just need my GOTL to reach the finish line


----------



## mordy

heliosphann said:


> Anyone have any good tube storing solutions? I was thinking about some kind of plastic tubs with dividers or something?





heliosphann said:


> Anyone have any good tube storing solutions? I was thinking about some kind of plastic tubs with dividers or something?


Hi hp,
If I remember correctly Mikelap on the old Little Dot thread found some inexpensive plastic "hot dog"  trays that can be cut to be put in drawers.
As for myself I use a no cost system of shoe boxes. Each box gets a sticker with the contents. Tubes with boxes are stored in the boxes; unboxed tubes get rolled up in pieces of bubble wrap with a rubber band.
If I "grow out" of a shoebox because of new acquisitions, I just pick another bigger one and make a new label.


----------



## Xcalibur255

So Glenn are you getting rain from the hurricane, or you are guys far enough away from it?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> Anyone have any good tube storing solutions? I was thinking about some kind of plastic tubs with dividers or something?



I use just standard tube boxes, a label maker, and my desk drawer.  But you could easily put them in a larger box instead of a drawer.  I like it this way since I can easily open up the drawer, identify the tube(s) I'm looking for, and roll  the tubes I will not be using any time are in a storage box.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I use just standard tube boxes, a label maker, and my desk drawer.  But you could easily put them in a larger box instead of a drawer.  I like it this way since I can easily open up the drawer, identify the tube(s) I'm looking for, and roll  the tubes I will not be using any time are in a storage box.


That's less than 60 tubes in the drawer - what are you going to do if you have 600 and you want to find the right one?


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> So Glenn are you getting rain from the hurricane, or you are guys far enough away from it?



Supposed to rain Thursday and Friday. Did get the generator started just in case it comes inland.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> That's less than 60 tubes in the drawer - what are you going to do if you have 600 and you want to find the right one?



I have a shed 1/2 full of tubes most are useless TV tubes but I can't through them away.  That would be some kind of sin.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> That's less than 60 tubes in the drawer - what are you going to do if you have 600 and you want to find the right one?



Well this is not a problem for me yet, I just keep my most frequently used tubes in my desk drawers.

If and when my collection becomes large enough and it becomes a problem, here is what I will do: 

Use the same individual labeling method, but store them long term in larger boxes labelled by tube type or consolidate multiple similar tube types.  So, I will go to the large 6SN7 box, open it, find the individual labelled tube that I am seeking.  If I have multiple large boxes of the same type, I will sort them by manufacturer alphabetically.  6SN7 Box 1 - manufacturers A-I, 6SN7 Box 2 - manufacturers J-T, etc.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well this is not a problem for me yet, I just keep my most frequently used tubes in my desk drawers.
> 
> If and when my collection becomes large enough and it becomes a problem, here is what I will do:
> 
> Use the same individual labeling method, but store them long term in larger boxes labelled by tube type or consolidate multiple similar tube types.  So, I will go to the large 6SN7 box, open it, find the individual labelled tube that I am seeking.  If I have multiple large boxes of the same type, I will sort them by manufacturer alphabetically.  6SN7 Box 1 - manufacturers A-I, 6SN7 Box 2 - manufacturers J-T, etc.


Just checked - I have less than 40 shoe boxes of various sizes. They are stacked in a half circle within reach, and the tubes de jour are on top of the piles.
Re sorting by manufacturer, it will be necessary to take a course "Re-branding 101" to make sure that a GE did not end up in the RCA, Westinghouse, Philco or Tung Sol box, etc etc.  
Just kidding - sounds like a good and well organized plan.


----------



## Skylab

One day it’s a small drawerful...and the next day...


----------



## leftside

Skylab said:


> One day it’s a small drawerful...and the next day...



That's a lot of original boxes! (and tubes)


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Skylab said:


> One day it’s a small drawerful...and the next day...





leftside said:


> That's a lot of original boxes! (and tubes)



My first thought too, so many original boxes!

I am fine with this future.  The next day you say?  I'll check my closet tomorrow morning, can't wait


----------



## mordy

Skylab said:


> One day it’s a small drawerful...and the next day...


What kind of system do you use to file (or find) the tubes? Or are these just spares?
Also very impressed of the condition of the boxes - many of the old tube boxes I have crumble and disintegrate when you look at them.....


----------



## mordy

On the old Little Dot thread there was a British chap that had over 7000 tubes, but I have not heard from him in years....


----------



## Zachik

Skylab said:


> One day it’s a small drawerful...and the next day...



Thanks for sharing - very useful for showing my GF whenever she thinks I am out of control...


----------



## Skylab

mordy said:


> What kind of system do you use to file (or find) the tubes? Or are these just spares?
> Also very impressed of the condition of the boxes - many of the old tube boxes I have crumble and disintegrate when you look at them.....



I do have the tubes grouped, but that’s about it. I also did “repair” quite a few of the boxes with tape.



Zachik said:


> Thanks for sharing - very useful for showing my GF whenever she thinks I am out of control...



Happy to be of service


----------



## UntilThen

Skylab said:


> One day it’s a small drawerful...and the next day...



That is amazing ! Makes my collection very normal.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 4, 2019)

Saw this firetruck over the weekend and all I could think of was a certain tube. Maybe I'm an addict.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 4, 2019)

Hey I'm curious if the existence of a transformer coupled output vs. OTL tube amp would have any effect on mitigating potential backlash from a tube that goes awry? Not that I have any specific concern about my tubes or the amp, but just curious.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Hey I'm curious if the existence of a transformer coupled output vs. OTL tube amp would have any effect on mitigating potential backlash from a tube that goes awry? Not that I have any specific concern about my tubes or the amp, but just curious.



A transformer coupled amp is less likley to damage your headphones if a tube arc over. The pulse it makes will be reduced by the ratio of the transformer.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 4, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> A transformer coupled amp is less likley to damage your headphones if a tube arc over. The pulse it makes will be reduced by the ratio of the transformer.


You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. I was worried that may be taken the wrong way. But now even more reason I'm STOKED to have the GEL3N / EL34 amp because I can finally spend long listening sessions on a tube amp without having to worry if something's gonna take out my hearing / drivers with a potential tube arc (or at least to a safer level). I think it's only happened to me once to me before and headphones weren't on my head.

I remember some funny story also from I think someone on the F.A. threads where someone's tubes gave out and his Sennheiser's made such a loud sound it freaked him out enough to throw the headphone across the room hard even though he wasn't wearing them... and the headphones weathered the storm just fine. 

PS - any takers on which tube that fire truck made me think of?


----------



## UntilThen

2nd time trying the Fivre 6V6g from Langrex. These sound amazing and it's a bargain price! Joe, I hope you get your adapters soon and try these 6v6 in your GEL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

Don't bid on this ok? It's mine.  Don't go on a bidding war with me. 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/One-53K...c0aade035b871cffcf4190|iid:1&autorefresh=true


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 4, 2019)

Here is my daily GOTL picture 

A few times now, I have gone through the arduous task of A-Bing my 6BX7 tubes.  I have Tung-Sol, RCA, Toshiba, Fivre, and GE.  They do not all sound the same.  I just want to point out, if anyone was ever curious about trying different 6BX7s, you might want to try the RCA clear tops.  They should be easy to make a set of and are very good sounding.  I prefer them over the Tung-Sols, and right now it is a toss up with the Toshiba and Fivre.

Listening to Nirvana - _MTV Unplugged in New York_, great live album, love the cover of Bowie's "The Man Who Sold the World".


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is my daily GOTL picture
> 
> A few times now, I have gone through the arduous task of A-Bing my 6BX7 tubes.  I have Tung-Sol, RCA, Toshiba, Fivre, and GE.  They do not all sound the same.  I just want to point out, if anyone was ever curious about trying different 6BX7s, you might want to try the RCA clear tops.  They should be easy to make a set of and are very good sounding.  I prefer them over the Tung-Sols, and right now it is a toss up with the Toshiba and Fivre.
> 
> Listening to Nirvana - _MTV Unplugged in New York_, great live album, love the cover of Bowie's "The Man Who Sold the World".


Please let me know if any of those RCA 6BX7 have little white dots sandblasted on the glass.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 4, 2019)

mordy said:


> Please let me know if any of those RCA 6BX7 have little white dots sandblasted on the glass.



No mordy, they are not GE.  The clear top side getter RCAs are RCA-manufactured.

Here is a closer photo of the construction.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> No mordy, they are not GE.  The clear top side getter RCAs are RCA manufactured.


If you had told me side getter I would not have asked lol......


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> If you had told me side getter I would not have asked lol......



Huh, I did not know GE made a clear top bottom getter 6BX7, never seen one.  The only clear top bottom getter 6BX7 I have seen is Fivre.

Here are two, the first one has a getter shield.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Skylab said:


> One day it’s a small drawerful...and the next day...



Man I remember the first time I saw this photo....... gosh it must have been at least 8 years ago now.  Probably more actually because I still owned the Woo amp.  It was impressive then and it's impressive now.


----------



## Skylab

Xcalibur255 said:


> Man I remember the first time I saw this photo....... gosh it must have been at least 8 years ago now.  Probably more actually because I still owned the Woo amp.  It was impressive then and it's impressive now.



This didn’t even capture the true height of my tube insanity, amazingly enough. I’ve pared it back a little since then, but I still have backups for my backups


----------



## UntilThen

Skylab said:


> This didn’t even capture the true height of my tube insanity, amazingly enough. I’ve pared it back a little since then, but I still have backups for my backups



Looking at the picture again, I see you have a pair of Chatham 6520 in a Tung Sol box ! and a couple of Tung Sol 6AS7g in original boxes.  I bought a pair of Tung Sol 6AS7G from you some time ago. They were so new and in original boxes when I received it.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> 2nd time trying the Fivre 6V6g from Langrex. These sound amazing and it's a bargain price! Joe, I hope you get your adapters soon and try these 6v6 in your GEL3N.




I should have the adapters in a week or 10 days...they are in the mail.







L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is my daily GOTL picture
> 
> A few times now, I have gone through the arduous task of A-Bing my 6BX7 tubes.  I have Tung-Sol, RCA, Toshiba, Fivre, and GE.  They do not all sound the same.  I just want to point out, if anyone was ever curious about trying different 6BX7s, you might want to try the RCA clear tops.  They should be easy to make a set of and are very good sounding.  I prefer them over the Tung-Sols, and right now it is a toss up with the Toshiba and Fivre.
> 
> Listening to Nirvana - _MTV Unplugged in New York_, great live album, love the cover of Bowie's "The Man Who Sold the World".




I very much like these RCA 6BX7 too.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I very much like these RCA 6BX7 too.



My best 6BX7s tubes are 4 x Los Gatos (Tung Sol) and 2 x Fivre. Have a 2nd set of 6 x GE 6BX7s. Enjoying them very much. I'm not too fussed.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> My best 6BX7s tubes are 4 x Los Gatos (Tung Sol) and 2 x Fivre. Have a 2nd set of 6 x GE 6BX7s. Enjoying them very much. I'm not too fussed.



Oh no need to fuss, just thought I'd give them a mention since they are still relatively easy to find.  Might be helpful for new GOTL owners, it's nice to have options


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Oh no need to fuss, just thought I'd give them a mention since they are still relatively easy to find.  Might be helpful for new GOTL owners, it's nice to have options



Oh definitely you’re doing a great job. Would be helpful for new owners of GOTL.


----------



## heliosphann

One thing I really love about the GOTL is the front panel mounted blue LED power button. Not only is it really convenient (to not have to reach behind the unit), but it's bright enough to remind you that that amp is on.

Went down to my listening station tonight and realized I left my Stratus on almost 24hrs! One bad thing about those Ken Rad 2A3's, no tube glow!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 4, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. I was worried that may be taken the wrong way. But now even more reason I'm STOKED to have the GEL3N / EL34 amp because I can finally spend long listening sessions on a tube amp without having to worry if something's gonna take out my hearing / drivers with a potential tube arc (or at least to a safer level). I think it's only happened to me once to me before and headphones weren't on my head.
> 
> I remember some funny story also from I think someone on the F.A. threads where someone's tubes gave out and his Sennheiser's made such a loud sound it freaked him out enough to throw the headphone across the room hard even though he wasn't wearing them... and the headphones weathered the storm just fine.
> 
> PS - any takers on which tube that fire truck made me think of?



Sounds like something that happened to me, when a custom made c3G adapter failed and arc'ed - make a HUGE POP in the Sennheiser 580's...I did throw them, they were on my pea pickin' noggin...

And the 580's did survive and are fine-a-roo to this day.

BTW, this also caused a resistor to open (go bad) in the FA Amp DC power supply board.  Folks at FA were kind enough to tell me the resistor value after I informed them that the resistor's color bands had burned off (from the famous FA amp 'heat issues').

I did repair the Amp myself,  and it worked fine there after...

Bottom line...the "best tube adapter" is "no stinkin' tube adapter"...

Cheers and may there be no POPS in yer amps


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> One thing I really love about the GOTL is the front panel mounted blue LED power button. Not only is it really convenient (to not have to reach behind the unit), but it's bright enough to remind you that that amp is on.
> 
> Went down to my listening station tonight and realized I left my Stratus on almost 24hrs! One bad thing about those Ken Rad 2A3's, no tube glow!



The blue light will also tell if you have the voltage switch on the wrong setting. If you leave the switch on 12 or 25 volts the blue light will ether
not come on or be dull.  This means the amp is in current limit not letting very expensive 6SN7 burn out if left on 12 or 25 volts.
I think putting the power switch on the back is stingy using a combined IEC connector and switch. Making you reach over hot tubes to turn the amp off.

Maybe I should have put the voltage switch on the front too?  I thought people would find a combo of tubes they liked and leave them.


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> One thing I really love about the GOTL is the front panel mounted blue LED power button. Not only is it really convenient (to not have to reach behind the unit), but it's bright enough to remind you that that amp is on.
> 
> Went down to my listening station tonight and realized I left my Stratus on almost 24hrs! One bad thing about those Ken Rad 2A3's, no tube glow!




Another great thing about that blue led is that if you are listening to the amp and that blue led is not on...you do not have the driver switch set to correct voltage 6/12/25 volt.
Thanks to Glenn for this....pretty cool feature.


----------



## whirlwind

Ha ha....never mind...Glenn beat me to it


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The blue light will also tell if you have the voltage switch on the wrong setting. If you leave the switch on 12 or 25 volts the blue light will ether
> not come on or be dull.  This means the amp is in current limit not letting very expensive 6SN7 burn out if left on 12 or 25 volts.
> I think putting the power switch on the back is stingy using a combined IEC connector and switch. Making you reach over hot tubes to turn the amp off.
> 
> Maybe I should have put the voltage switch on the front too?  I thought people would find a combo of tubes they liked and leave them.




I like the 5998 switch and the voltage switch in the back personally....it leaves the front panel very clean looking.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I like the 5998 switch and the voltage switch in the back personally....it leaves the front panel very clean looking.



I agree with this. I have those switches behind and that's where I prefer them. I love the blue on the soft push start power switch in front. In this aspect, it's much better than Yggdrasil and Studio Six, both of which have the power switch behind.

Another aspect that I like about GOTL is the xlr input as well as the 1/4 inch headphone jack input.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I agree with this. I have those switches behind and that's where I prefer them. I love the blue on the soft push start power switch in front. In this aspect, it's much better than Yggdrasil and Studio Six, both of which have the power switch behind.
> 
> Another aspect that I like about GOTL is the xlr input as well as the 1/4 inch headphone jack input.



Yes, the xlr input is very convenient...i asked for this on my OTL amp and I believe Glenn installs it on all OTL amps now.
Beats having to use an adapter.  Not many amps give you this little extra.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Yes, the xlr input is very convenient...i asked for this on my OTL amp and I believe Glenn installs it on all OTL amps now.
> Beats having to use an adapter.  Not many amps give you this little extra.



All the features pales into insignificance when you plug your headphone jack into the GOTL and press play. It is my belief when I first heard it in Dec 2017, as it is now, that this amp is worthy of TOTL amp status. The only downside is it's more prone to noise as compared to some amps I know, especially against the Studio Six. With the right tubes though, it's almost quiet. If you can live with the less than perfect low noise floor, the sound more than make up for it. In fact after about 2 weeks with the GOTL and Studio Six side by side, I am stunned how GOTL is holding up it's head against the Studio Six which is praised by Darko and Currawong in the Studio Six thread.

GOTL midrange is vibrant and sparkles. The top end is lively but never overly bright. The mid bass will run rings against even more revered amps. I still maintain that the GOTL is very understated and flies under the radar. Just as well because if more people are aware of it's amazing sonics, the queue will stretch over a year.  So if you own a GOTL already, consider yourself lucky.


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> The blue light will also tell if you have the voltage switch on the wrong setting. If you leave the switch on 12 or 25 volts the blue light will ether
> not come on or be dull.  This means the amp is in current limit not letting very expensive 6SN7 burn out if left on 12 or 25 volts.
> I think putting the power switch on the back is stingy using a combined IEC connector and switch. Making you reach over hot tubes to turn the amp off.
> 
> Maybe I should have put the voltage switch on the front too?  I thought people would find a combo of tubes they liked and leave them.



You know, my amp doesn’t exhibit this behavior. I’ve lost two ECC35 and 6c8gs this way.

Is there a method for me to check if it’s working?


----------



## UntilThen

My blue light works as Glenn described. I've seen the blue light dull on quite a few occasions on change of drivers. That's when I realised I haven't set the switch correctly. I have more than one occasion thought the ECC35 is 12.6volts and set it as that, only to realise that it should be 6.3volts.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> All the features pales into insignificance when you plug your headphone jack into the GOTL and press play. It is my belief when I first heard it in Dec 2017, as it is now, that this amp is worthy of TOTL amp status. The only downside is it's more prone to noise as compared to some amps I know, especially against the Studio Six. With the right tubes though, it's almost quiet. If you can live with the less than perfect low noise floor, the sound more than make up for it. In fact after about 2 weeks with the GOTL and Studio Six side by side, I am stunned how GOTL is holding up it's head against the Studio Six which is praised by Darko and Currawong in the Studio Six thread.
> 
> GOTL midrange is vibrant and sparkles. The top end is lively but never overly bright. The mid bass will run rings against even more revered amps. I still maintain that the GOTL is very understated and flies under the radar. Just as well because if more people are aware of it's amazing sonics, the queue will stretch over a year.  So if you own a GOTL already, consider yourself lucky.



Agreed on all points. While the Apex Teton is beautiful sounding amp; it trades blows with the GOTL. The GOTL may not be as quiet, or detailed, or as clear; it does make it  easier to discern small gradients of volume changes, it has huge dynamic swings, much better layering, holographic and a wider sound stage. The GOTL has an easier time just sounding right with very cheap tubes. While I have a very expensive tubes in the Teton.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Agreed on all points. While the Apex Teton is beautiful sounding amp; it trades blows with the GOTL. The GOTL may not be as quiet, or detailed, or as clear; it does make it  easier to discern small gradients of volume changes, it has huge dynamic swings, much better layering, holographic and a wider sound stage. The GOTL has an easier time just sounding right with very cheap tubes. While I have a very expensive tubes in the Teton.



Thanks. I was waiting for you to give a little comparison between GOTL and Teton. Too bad, both of us have just make the GOTL queue grow longer.


----------



## OctavianH

UntilThen said:


> Thanks. I was waiting for you to give a little comparison between GOTL and Teton. Too bad, both of us have just make the GOTL queue grow longer.



Speaking about the queue, what is the average time of waiting for the GOTL? How you know your position in the queue? For me this is a total mistery.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> Speaking about the queue, what is the average time of waiting for the GOTL? How you know your position in the queue? For me this is a total mistery.



There is no average time of waiting for the GOTL. It varies, depending whether there is a hurricane or tsunami. Just pray that bad weather won't plague Glenn's home town. Other than that it should be fine but do know that he also have a full time job and that it's not reasonable to expect him to be making amps all the time when he's home from work. He will need to put up his feet, put on his Verite and plug it into his tube amp and just enjoy a bit of his own creation. 

I wish I could help with speeding up the queue. I did offer Glenn my help in helping to solder but if he did take up my offer, God bless your GOTL! Your SQ will go through the roof. 

No Octa, I wish I could answer your question. Now I just wish my dream 300b amp will be ready for the next birthday.


----------



## OctavianH

I am not in a hurry, I was just curious about the process. You know, I like to enjoy the road and not only the destination. So waiting is not so bad because it makes you think a lot about the future.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> I am not in a hurry, I was just curious about the process. You know, I like to enjoy the road and not only the destination. So waiting is not so bad because it makes you think a lot about the future.



Yes I totally understand that. Most of you are very patient but at the same time it would be nice to get the amp soon. Back in 2017, I was happily chatting in my own thread when Glenn pop in one day. That's when I decided that I will have him make me a GOTL. He said no problem and 2 months later I got my amp. I guess I was very lucky because they weren't that many orders then.

If you think about it, the queue for Glenn's amps is still not that long. When I place an order for the DNA Stratus, the wait time is one year or more.


----------



## mordy

The blue light feature is a great one, but I believe that it is does not always work if you use a driver tube that requires an adapter.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Another aspect that I like about GOTL is the xlr *input* as well as the 1/4 inch headphone jack *input*.



You mean outputs....


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> The blue light feature is a great one, but I believe that it is does not always work if you use a driver tube that requires an adapter.



This is fine but for example an ECC35 would cause this to be the case as well? Possibly because it’s a different type of tube. 

I’ve just accepted it as not working and have made it a habit to always check the voltage switch before turning on the amp.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> You mean outputs....



Just me getting muddle up I guess. 

Too many outputs in my system lately. Yggdrasil has 2 sets of RCA out and 2 sets of xlr out. I need to connect Yggdrasil to GOTL and Studio Six via RCA out. Was wandering how to connect the Sansui au-717 as it only has RCA in. 

So I ordered this cable. Hope it works.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> This is fine but for example an ECC35 would cause this to be the case as well? Possibly because it’s a different type of tube.



My ECC33 is in GOTL but I'm not going to do the blue glow test because that tube cost me $275.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> My ECC33 is in GOTL but I'm not going to do the blue glow test because that tube cost me $275.



I wouldn’t either, lol. ECC33/35s are beautiful sounding tubes and are hard to come by. That’s why when one goes it’s almost soul crushing. 

To change the subject: After using the Toolshed Amp and the Teton I found myself using the Auteur pads more often than not on the Auteur. Before I thought that the Auteur pads were too bright but that was on the MCTH with the a 6C8G. Now with these two amps, I found that the highs are much more comfortable and it sounds more open. I still enjoy the Eikon perforated pads the most but let’s see how it sounds when I get the GOTL back. Maybe a nice setup of TS 5998 with a ECC35.


----------



## attmci

OctavianH said:


> I am not in a hurry, I was just curious about the process. You know, I like to enjoy the road and not only the destination. So waiting is not so bad because it makes you think a lot about the future.


Great idea. 

And watch out the new-toy syndrome.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I wouldn’t either, lol. ECC33/35s are beautiful sounding tubes and are hard to come by. That’s why when one goes it’s almost soul crushing.
> 
> To change the subject: After using the Toolshed Amp and the Teton I found myself using the Auteur pads more often than not on the Auteur. Before I thought that the Auteur pads were too bright but that was on the MCTH with the a 6C8G. Now with these two amps, I found that the highs are much more comfortable and it sounds more open. I still enjoy the Eikon perforated pads the most but let’s see how it sounds when I get the GOTL back. Maybe a nice setup of TS 5998 with a ECC35.



My next tube purchase would be these GEC 6V6 and I thought I'm done with tube purchase.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> My next tube purchase would be these GEC 6V6 and I thought I'm done with tube purchase.



I love that seller. Whether or not I think his tube prices are reasonable (some of there are some of them a bit too high for my tastes), all of tubes are pristine that I’ve ordered from him and tubes are delivered quickly. You’re in good hands UT.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> I thought people would find a combo of tubes they liked and leave them.


 LOL! Thats adorable.


----------



## Phantaminum

OctavianH said:


> I am not in a hurry, I was just curious about the process. You know, I like to enjoy the road and not only the destination. So waiting is not so bad because it makes you think a lot about the future.



It’ll be all worth it once you receive the amp. 

Then we can welcome you to the tube addict club. Watch your wallet, it’s going to be very light for a while.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> My next tube purchase would be these GEC 6V6 and I thought I'm done with tube purchase.


You can get them for half price from Billington in the UK. Same condition. I think I might have posted a pic a few pages back. I've just purchased some more tubes from there...


----------



## OctavianH

I thought this is the "wallet friendly" amp. Because I already own the expenssive tubes  Ok, I need 6x 6BL7 or 6x 6BX7 + some rectifiers but... let's hope that's it.
Anyway I have no confirmation or proof so I sometimes think if I was asleep or awake when I ordered it. Time will tell if I'll receive it in my dreams or at the postal office.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> You can get them for half price from Billington in the UK. Same condition. I think I might have posted a pic a few pages back. I've just purchased some more tubes from there...



Thanks I'll check out Billington then.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I love that seller. Whether or not I think his tube prices are reasonable (some of there are some of them a bit too high for my tastes), all of tubes are pristine that I’ve ordered from him and tubes are delivered quickly. You’re in good hands UT.



I bought some Mullard EL32 from them. Very good condition and arrive quickly by Fed-Ex.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> I thought this is the "wallet friendly" amp. Because I already own the expenssive tubes  Ok, I need 6x 6BL7 or 6x 6BX7 + some rectifiers but... let's hope that's it.
> Anyway I have no confirmation or proof so I sometimes think if I was asleep or awake when I ordered it. Time will tell if I'll receive it in my dreams or at the postal office.



You do indeed have all the nice tubes already. I too have all my tubes ready when GOTL arrived 2 weeks before Christmas of 2017. It was the craziest Christmas I ever had. I eat, sleep and party with GOTL. This was one of the 1st pic taken when I still have Eikon.


----------



## Phantaminum

OctavianH said:


> I thought this is the "wallet friendly" amp. Because I already own the expenssive tubes  Ok, I need 6x 6BL7 or 6x 6BX7 + some rectifiers but... let's hope that's it.
> Anyway I have no confirmation or proof so I sometimes think if I was asleep or awake when I ordered it. Time will tell if I'll receive it in my dreams or at the postal office.



It *is* quite “friendly” with your wallet, lol.

6 x 6BX7S will get you off on the right foot. Give those tubes some time to burn in. Didn’t like them at first. Thought they were too rough and unrefined. After pushing through it, they really opened up. I feel like they get close to the GEC 6080 in sound.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> Anyway I have no confirmation or proof so I sometimes think if I was asleep or awake when I ordered it.



Similar to the bidding on the Cossor 53ku I'm on now. In less than 3 days, I'll know if I won or not. I'm bidding against a 'private listing - bidders identities protected' !!! I'm bidding against a robot. 

Well I'll pull out at some point and let the robot get burn.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> You can get them for half price from Billington in the UK. Same condition. I think I might have posted a pic a few pages back. I've just purchased some more tubes from there...



Thanks mate. I completely forgot about Billington you told me about. I just wrote to them.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Just me getting muddle up I guess.
> 
> Too many outputs in my system lately. Yggdrasil has 2 sets of RCA out and 2 sets of xlr out. I need to connect Yggdrasil to GOTL and Studio Six via RCA out. Was wandering how to connect the Sansui au-717 as it only has RCA in.
> 
> So I ordered this cable. Hope it works.



Pretty sure the XLR outs on the yggy are balanced?   Balanced means no common ground...so not sure if that will work.
I think I would use the "RCA many to one" we used for multiple inputs...in reverse and feed yggy RCA outs to multiple amps...


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Just me getting muddle up I guess.
> 
> Too many outputs in my system lately. Yggdrasil has 2 sets of RCA out and 2 sets of xlr out. I need to connect Yggdrasil to GOTL and Studio Six via RCA out. Was wandering how to connect the Sansui au-717 as it only has RCA in.
> 
> So I ordered this cable. Hope it works.


I have not had good luck with this on my Yggdrasil.  Hopefully you'll have better results.  I even tried transformer balancing adapters and still had bad results.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

OctavianH said:


> I thought this is the "wallet friendly" amp. Because I already own the expenssive tubes  Ok, I need 6x 6BL7 or 6x 6BX7 + some rectifiers but... let's hope that's it.
> Anyway I have no confirmation or proof so I sometimes think if I was asleep or awake when I ordered it. Time will tell if I'll receive it in my dreams or at the postal office.



It definitely can be wallet friendly, get some 6BX7s and a decent driver tube and you are good to go!  And stay away from this thread.  You'll find most everyone here has spent at least the equivalent cost of the amp itself on rare tubes.

For me, collecting and comparing tubes is part of the fun, but it sure isn't cheap...


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Pretty sure the XLR outs on the yggy are balanced?   Balanced means no common ground...so not sure if that will work.
> I think I would use the "RCA many to one" we used for multiple inputs...in reverse and feed yggy RCA outs to multiple amps...





Xcalibur255 said:


> I have not had good luck with this on my Yggdrasil.  Hopefully you'll have better results.  I even tried transformer balancing adapters and still had bad results.



If it doesn’t work, I may have to get a preamp but then I’ll need a new rack lol.


----------



## mordy (Sep 5, 2019)

Speaking about the fun of collecting tubes (and sometimes cheap thrills)...
Today I received a shipment of an estate find from somebody with the first name of Melyssa. This is the kind of seller I am looking for - somebody who is not a professional tube seller.
There were five 6N7 metal tubes in this lot - with my tube configuration this is a great driver for me. The lot was advertised for $9.99 + shipping and best offer. I made a shamelessly low offer of $5 - I mean, who is buying these strange looking little black metal canisters with prongs?
Offer accepted.
What did I get?
National Union from spring 1940.
GE Rosetta Stone (more about that later) from April 1956.
Ken-Rad from December 1947
RCA M-R (manufacturers replacement - civilian ration tube designation from 1942-45) dated March-April 1945
RCA from December 1953

The bottom of the box (which by the way was very poorly packaged - luckily no fragile glass) had a very old piece of newspaper in it. What does it mean old - older than me by two years:



All kinds of war news (Naval Flyer Downs Four Japs For Third Time) and all kinds of ads for goods and entertainment - interesting....
What about the Rosetta Stone? You know about those indecipherable GE pesky white dots? Well, this tube has both the dots and the date! Just go ahead and figure out the hieroglyphics!






*   *
*  **   These dots mean 17th week 1956. And so on LOL.....
So far I have tried four of these untested tubes and they work fine. It occurs to me that the GE 6N7 sound the same as the Ken-Rad 6N7 with great bass.
I think that I got my money's worth for $14.63 incl shipping and tax.
Have fun!


----------



## UntilThen

1956 is a very special year !


----------



## Emuleros

Hi @2359glenn could you please check your inbox, just sent you a message. Thanks!


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> 1956 is a very special year !


Yes - I know


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Speaking about the fun of collecting tubes (and sometimes cheap thrills)...
> Today I received a shipment of an estate find from somebody with the first name of Melyssa. This is the kind of seller I am looking for - somebody who is not a professional tube seller.
> There were five 6N7 metal tubes in this lot - with my tube configuration this is a great driver for me. The lot was advertised for $9.99 + shipping and best offer. I made a shamelessly low offer of $5 - I mean, who is buying these strange looking little black metal canisters with prongs?
> Offer accepted.
> ...



Yes, I had an RCA metal 6N7 that I liked when you suggested the Ken Rad that I then obtained...thought they sounded almost identical, with that luscious bass!

6N7 is the BOMB driver for GOTL...for sure!!

Excellent purchase, Mordy!!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, I had an RCA metal 6N7 that I liked when you suggested the Ken Rad that I then obtained...thought they sounded almost identical, with that luscious bass!
> 
> 6N7 is the BOMB driver for GOTL...for sure!!
> 
> Excellent purchase, Mordy!!


Just trying out the newly acquired RCA from 1953 and it sounds very good but I need time to figure out if it differs much from the K-R.


----------



## whirlwind

I received my GOTL on 9/26/15

I am happy to report that it has given me zero problems and I probably have 20 nice tube rolls that are dead silent...zero noise.
amazed at the black back round sometimes. 

Two power tube set-up with C3g tubes or a  good single driver tube.

Just running the amp as Glenn made it.

Sockets look good as new too!  What a killer amp.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> My next tube purchase would be these GEC 6V6 and I thought I'm done with tube purchase.




I have a pair of these in my watch list


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I received my GOTL on 9/26/15
> 
> I am happy to report that it has given me zero problems and I probably have 20 nice tube rolls that are dead silent...zero noise.
> amazed at the black back round sometimes.
> ...



Very nice, Joe!

Have you tried a 6N7 in the SN7 socket?

Pair of EL32's in the C3G sockets?


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 5, 2019)

Came home from work and there was a brand new GEC 6AS7 in the mailbox. Back to there sweet sound.
Did get quite used to the 6080s I think they are a little mellower.
With the Verite the GEC 6AS7s are the bomb. The 6080s are better with the Auteur.
I think I will do a little listening tonight!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Very nice, Joe!
> 
> Have you tried a 6N7 in the SN7 socket?
> 
> Pair of EL32's in the C3G sockets?




I have a few 6N7G.... I like the ECC31 of the ones I own

I have not tried the EL32's....but after dropping the motherlode on some ECC32..33...35 tubes I will run them and be quite content.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I received my GOTL on 9/26/15
> 
> I am happy to report that it has given me zero problems and I probably have 20 nice tube rolls that are dead silent...zero noise.
> amazed at the black back round sometimes.
> ...



I received my GOTL at about the same time, 03/05/15, and it was the first GOTL with C3g sockets. And even though I have probably rolled through more tube combinations than most, including rectifiers, like Joe, the amp has never failed me. Even the sockets show no signs of wear.

Indeed, a killer amp!


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> I received my GOTL at about the same time, 03/05/15, and it was the first GOTL with C3g sockets. And even though I have probably rolled through more tube combinations than most, including rectifiers, like Joe, the amp has never failed me. Even the sockets show no signs of wear.
> 
> Indeed, a killer amp!



Hello G - 
What is your all time fav tube combination (tough to pick one, I know).


----------



## gibosi

Well again, I think I am much more of a tube roller than an audiophile, and it seems that my answer to that question is always that it's the combination I am listening to now. 

So for now, a Hungarian Tungsram AZ4 rectifier, a pair of 6M5 pentodes (through C3g adapters) and four TS 6BX7. But I am expecting a mesh-plate Tesla AZ12 to arrive shortly, and then, my all time favorite will likely be different. lol


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Well again, I think I am much more of a tube roller than an audiophile, and it seems that my answer to that question is always that it's the combination I am listening to now.
> 
> So for now, a Hungarian Tungsram AZ4 rectifier, a pair of 6M5 pentodes (through C3g adapters) and four TS 6BX7. But I am expecting a mesh-plate Tesla AZ12 to arrive shortly, and then, my all time favorite will likely be different. lol



You sound like Frank Lloyd Wright...when asked what his personal favorite building was...

He answered: "The next one that I will build"...


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 6, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Agreed on all points. While the Apex Teton is beautiful sounding amp; it trades blows with the GOTL. The GOTL may not be as quiet, or detailed, or as clear; it does make it  easier to discern small gradients of volume changes, it has huge dynamic swings, much better layering, holographic and a wider sound stage. The GOTL has an easier time just sounding right with very cheap tubes. While I have a very expensive tubes in the Teton.


Would I be wrong to assume the balance between these amps can change depending on tubes used? Maybe using a more detailed tube combo on the GOTL, perhaps C3G + GEC 6080 or the likes would make the GOTL sound as detailed or clear as the Teton? And of course the above doesn't apply to all Glenn amps, as the GEL3N is supposed to be different.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> My next tube purchase would be these GEC 6V6 and I thought I'm done with tube purchase.





leftside said:


> You can get them for half price from Billington in the UK. Same condition. I think I might have posted a pic a few pages back. I've just purchased some more tubes from there...



Hmmm..... 6V6 not in my compatibility table...
What adapters do I need for these?  (I will add to my table once I hear back)


----------



## UntilThen

6v6 is not for GOTL. Whirlwind will be trying it in the GEL3N as a proof of concept.

It will certainly work in my Studio Six.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 6, 2019)

I would be interested to hear the 6V6 results from Whirlwind because it would also work on my upcoming GEL3N-based amp. Mine will use common Octal sockets for power tubes wired for native KT77 / EL34 and adapters for everything else. So will 6V6 work natively also?
I'm not expecting the largest soundstage from those though as my experience has shown that large soundstage and larger size tubes go hand-in-hand. Though that does change when multiples are used.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 6, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> I would be interested to hear the 6V6 results from Whirlwind because it would also work on my upcoming GEL3N-based amp. Mine will use common Octal sockets for power tubes wired for native KT77 / EL34 and adapters for everything else. So will 6V6 work natively also?
> I'm not expecting the largest soundstage from those though as my experience has shown that large soundstage and larger size tubes go hand-in-hand. Though that does change when multiples are used.



Studio Six designers chose tubes that sound good sonically and are still freely available. Studio Six use 6V6 as power tubes and 6SN7 as driver. The soundstage is the widest I've ever experience in the tube amps I've owned or heard. It's all in the implementation. Check out the Studio Six thread and you'll read feedback on good soundstage. That's one of the traits.


----------



## UntilThen

Do not judge soundstage by the tube size.


----------



## UntilThen

The Swamp industry xlr to rca cables arrived today and I connected the xlr end to Yggdrasil out and the rca end to the Sansui input. Good news @Xcalibur255 @JazzVinyl , it works. Speakers sounding clear and beautiful.


----------



## UntilThen

@Zachik, I'm trying out the new NOS Siemens EL11s with 6 x 6bx7gt in GOTL. Perfect ! No noise. Just pure music. 

EL11s in this setup is simply sensational. With Verite Open, this is as good as it gets.


----------



## UntilThen

So good this combination of EL11 and 6bx7s. The dynamics, timbre, texture, it's all step up. Maybe I make a mistake in ditching Berlin !!! This was supposed to be the theme song for Berlin.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I received my GOTL at about the same time, 03/05/15, and it was the first GOTL with C3g sockets. And even though I have probably rolled through more tube combinations than most, including rectifiers, like Joe, the amp has never failed me. Even the sockets show no signs of wear.
> 
> Indeed, a killer amp!




I remember this well your amp was right before mine...man I could not wait to hear those C3g driver tubes.
The transparency of the C3g drivers is simply off the hook.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Thanks I'll check out Billington then.




I will keep this in mind


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I will keep this in mind



You will love the Fivre 6V6. I wonder how different the GEC 6V6 would be.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> You will love the Fivre 6V6. I wonder how different the GEC 6V6 would be.




I do not have a Fivre 6V6.....but I do have GEC KT63


 

The price of the Fivre 6V6 is quite good though....may get a pair depending on how everything plays out.


----------



## UntilThen

Perhaps it was Leftside who got a pair too. Your Osram KT63 looks good. Fancy we got to this stage and start exploring all these tubes with the very classy labels of GEC, Osram, Marconi, Brimar. Should grab some before the market dries up.


----------



## whirlwind

Adapters have reached Chicago...so I should be able to listen sometime next week


----------



## UntilThen

I have 2 parcels of tubes unopened. I wonder what they are.


----------



## whirlwind

Stuff you bought and forgot you bought


----------



## UntilThen

It's the Tesla EL12 spez and Tungsram EL11. The Siemens EL11 in GOTL has me totally hooked .... line and sinker.  Maybe I shouldn't ditch Berlin.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It's the Tesla EL12 spez and Tungsram EL11. The Siemens EL11 in GOTL has me totally hooked .... line and sinker.  Maybe I shouldn't ditch Berlin.



The EL11 is really a EL3N with a different base.
I have a bunch of Tungsram  EL3D  and am sure it is the same tube as the EL11 with a side pin base. Paid $15 each for them.
Do prefer the Philups EL3N to the Tungsram EL3D though.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The EL11 is really a EL3N with a different base.
> I have a bunch of Tungsram  EL3D  and am sure it is the same tube as the EL11 with a side pin base. Paid $15 each for them.
> Do prefer the Philups EL3N to the Tungsram EL3D though.



I'm going to swap in the EL3N now with  6 x 6bx7gt. Though EL3N and EL11 are identical electrically, tonally they are different. EL11 has better treble extension and feel much airier.


----------



## Phantaminum

DecentLevi said:


> Would I be wrong to assume the balance between these amps can change depending on tubes used? Maybe using a more detailed tube combo on the GOTL, perhaps C3G + GEC 6080 or the likes would make the GOTL sound as detailed or clear as the Teton? And of course the above doesn't apply to all Glenn amps, as the GEL3N is supposed to be different.



It’s in the implementation and topology. Maybe with different caps and possibly not using a Hexfred but something like a WE 422A or GEC U52. You’re trading clarity for sound stage width/depth or speed for an amp that sounds great with cheap tubes. It’s trade offs but think about it; we’re comparing a $1600 amp vs a $5000 amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Well, well, well. EL3N with 6 x 6bx7gt in GOTL now. The difference tonally between EL11 and EL3N is not as pronounced as I remember it. What surprised me is that I like EL3N in this combination just as much. It's slightly warmer. Very slight. Not overly warm. With Verite, it's a beautiful tone.

Both EL11 and EL3N as drivers with 6bx7s are amongst the best tone I've heard in the GOTL. In my opinion of course. 

From this short listening session, I can imagine what GEL3N will sound like. I think I will like it a lot. 

My EL3N - stripped of the red band some time ago when I thought it's hip to look grey. The other eight NOS EL3N has gone to @Rossliew . 

So whether it's Berlin or Vienna, it will be a cracker of an amp.


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> I'm going to swap in the EL3N now with  6 x 6bx7gt. *Though EL3N and EL11 are identical electrically, tonally they are different. EL11 has better treble extension and feel much airier.*



Hi UT.

Although in a different amp of course, for a couple of years now my extensive experiments with the EL3N and various EL11s have indeed shown them to be quite different sonically...even the Philips stable versions with the _oval_ plate of the EL3N! And different again is the German TFK-designed tube with _round_ plate....ENJOY!...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT.
> 
> Although in a different amp of course, for a couple of years now my extensive experiments with the EL3N and various EL11s have indeed shown them to be quite different sonically...even the Philips stable versions with the _oval_ plate of the EL3N! And different again is the German TFK-designed tube with _round_ plate....ENJOY!...



Hello Colin, nice of you to pop in. 

Precisely what I was trying to say. That the difference between EL11 and EL3N is not as pronounced as I remember it. In Elise and Euforia, I could detect the difference in tone a lot more but here in Glenn's OTL, the difference is more subtle. Could be the sextet 6BX7gt combination with the drivers and different amps of course.

Again both drivers in the transformer coupled version of Glenn's amp, it's hard to know what the difference will be. All I can say is that both drivers with 6 x 6bx7gt in the OTL sounds pretty amazing.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> It’s in the implementation and topology. Maybe with different caps and possibly not using a Hexfred but something like a WE 422A or GEC U52. You’re trading clarity for sound stage width/depth or speed for an amp that sounds great with cheap tubes. It’s trade offs but think about it; we’re comparing a $1600 amp vs a $5000 amp.



I'm with you completely with what you're trying to say. No tubes swap will make either amps sound alike to one another. Each have their own character and to that end, I enjoy both GOTL and Studio Six just as much. However as you have pointed out, there's a big gulf in price between the 2 amps and yet despite that, GOTL is equal to the task of providing pure sonic bliss.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Hello Colin, nice of you to pop in.
> 
> Precisely what I was trying to say. That the difference between EL11 and EL3N is not as pronounced as I remember it. In Elise and Euforia, I could detect the difference in tone a lot more but here in Glenn's OTL, the difference is more subtle. Could be the sextet 6BX7gt combination with the drivers and different amps of course.
> 
> Again both drivers in the transformer coupled version of Glenn's amp, it's hard to know what the difference will be. All I can say is that both drivers with 6 x 6bx7gt in the OTL sounds pretty amazing.



Again, the EL11 and EL3N are identical electrically, and the differences in tonality are due to the factory of origin. In the same way, all 6SN7 are identical electrically, but we all know very well that a Ken-Rad sounds very different than a Sylvania. 

So when talking about the tonality of the EL11 and EL3N,  I encourage everyone to indicate the factory so we know precisely which EL11 or EL3N you are listening to.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I'm going to swap in the EL3N now with  6 x 6bx7gt. Though EL3N and EL11 are identical electrically, tonally they are different. EL11 has better treble extension and feel much airier.



What brand of EL3N are you going to try??


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> My EL3N - stripped of the red band some time ago when I thought it's hip to look grey. The other eight NOS EL3N has gone to @Rossliew .
> 
> So whether it's Berlin or Vienna, it will be a cracker of an amp.



Those tubes should really put their skirts back on, there are children on this forum.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I remember this well your amp was right before mine...man I could not wait to hear those C3g driver tubes.
> The transparency of the C3g drivers is simply off the hook.



Have you tried the Gibosi suggested Mazda ECC804?  It sounds like a pair of C3g's in one tiny bottle.


----------



## rnros (Sep 6, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Well, well, well. EL3N with 6 x 6bx7gt in GOTL now. The difference tonally between EL11 and EL3N is not as pronounced as I remember it. What surprised me is that I like EL3N in this combination just as much. It's slightly warmer. Very slight. Not overly warm. With Verite, it's a beautiful tone.
> 
> Both EL11 and EL3N as drivers with 6bx7s are amongst the best tone I've heard in the GOTL. In my opinion of course.



This is my experience also. Not only with 6BX7, with 6336B and 5998 also. That is the Philips (A) EL3N compared to both the Valvo (G) and Telefunken (U?) E11s.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> @Zachik, I'm trying out the new NOS Siemens EL11s with 6 x 6bx7gt in GOTL. Perfect ! No noise. Just pure music.
> 
> EL11s in this setup is simply sensational. With Verite Open, this is as good as it gets.


Very encouraging!  Gotta have EL11 tubes......


----------



## leftside

DecentLevi said:


> I would be interested to hear the 6V6 results from Whirlwind because it would also work on my upcoming GEL3N-based amp. Mine will use common Octal sockets for power tubes wired for native KT77 / EL34 and adapters for everything else. So will 6V6 work natively also?
> I'm not expecting the largest soundstage from those though as my experience has shown that large soundstage and larger size tubes go hand-in-hand. Though that does change when multiples are used.


The KT77 and EL34 are tiny in size compared to a KT66. Some of the most popular tubes out there such as 12AX7 are very small in size.


----------



## JazzVinyl

@whirlwind - spinning the Blues this AM..

Just heard Buddy Guy's "I've Got A Problem" - always makes me smile...
then:
Freddie King's "Let The Good Times Roll"  
And some
Robert Cray Band, Keb 'Mo, Etta James...

etc...


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> What brand of EL3N are you going to try??



I've only ever use one type of EL3N and they are from Acoustic Dimension - the Philips Miniwatt EL3N and the Siemens EL11 are identical in constructions to the Telefunken EL11. I've both the Siemens and Telefunken EL11.

EL11 is still a bit brighter, airier and have better treble extension than the EL3N. However, the difference is not that great. Both are very enjoyable on the GOTL. It depends on an individual's preference of whether they like a slightly brighter or slightly warmer tone.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Those tubes should really put their skirts back on, there are children on this forum.



Wait till you see Tony's naked c3g. He's proud of it.


----------



## mordy

According to hypnos1, the best sounding EL3N and EL11 have mesh plates, but these are extremely difficult to find. (Australian EL3NG and Valvo EL11 if I remember correctly)
In my experience the best sounding EL11 tubes are the TFK, followed by RFT, Valvo, and Tungsram last. But that was in the Euforia amp, and things may play out differently in the GOTL. However, I would not look for Tungsram for the GOTL. In addition, I had better results with the ST tubes than the straight glass TFK EL11.


----------



## Monsterzero

Its been a very long time since I rolled in the c3g. To confirm,I can use c3g with 6x 6bx7s,but cannot do the triple driver. Correct?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Wait till you see Tony's naked c3g. He's proud of it.



Is this a headphone forum or a nudists' colony?

I made a GIF.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Its been a very long time since I rolled in the c3g. To confirm,I can use c3g with 6x 6bx7s,but cannot do the triple driver. Correct?



Correct - you certainly can use c3g with 6 x 6bx7gt and there is no harm in adding a 6sn7 to the mix.

Currently I have one Magnavox (NU?) 6sn7gt + 2 x Mullard EL32 grey glass + a mixture of 6 x 6bx7gt in GOTL.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Is this a headphone forum or a nudists' colony?
> 
> I made a GIF.



Nice man. I might suggest moving off of an earthquake faultline,as all that shaking is certainly wrecking the acoustics of your system,or invest in industrial strength shock absorbers for your home.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Is this a headphone forum or a nudists' colony?
> 
> I made a GIF.



Can you give a sound impression of all that tube combinations going through your GOTL simultaneously?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 6, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Nice man. I might suggest moving off of an earthquake faultline,as all that shaking is certainly wrecking the acoustics of your system,or invest in industrial strength shock absorbers for your home.



I've been thinking of adding Cardas Quake Breaker*™ *titanium spiked feet.  They are magnitude 8.0 tested, zero microphonics, but are on back order.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Nice man. I might suggest moving off of an earthquake faultline,as all that shaking is certainly wrecking the acoustics of your system,or invest in industrial strength shock absorbers for your home.


I will suggest him to obtain at least some Lampizator oceans.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> According to hypnos1, the best sounding EL3N and EL11 have mesh plates, but these are extremely difficult to find. (Australian EL3NG and Valvo EL11 if I remember correctly)
> In my experience the best sounding EL11 tubes are the TFK, followed by RFT, Valvo, and Tungsram last. But that was in the Euforia amp, and things may play out differently in the GOTL. However, I would not look for Tungsram for the GOTL. In addition, I had better results with the ST tubes than the straight glass TFK EL11.


Hmmm, the best sounding tubes are always difficult to find.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Hmmm, the best sounding tubes are always difficult to find.



My best sounding tubes are until then.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> The KT77 and EL34 are tiny in size compared to a KT66. Some of the most popular tubes out there such as 12AX7 are very small in size.



I've no idea the KT66 are that big. I have held the KT88 in my hands though and they are pretty big. I was on the verge of buying 8 x Tung Sol KT150 for the Primaluna but I let it go in favour of the Redgum amp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Can you give a sound impression of all that tube combinations going through your GOTL simultaneously?



This is the only way to unlock the true potential of the GOTL.  I will try my best to put the sound into words.....

Imagine a swordfish fillet.  Now imagine being slapped in the face with that fillet, but your face is your eardrums and the fillet is your tube collection.  You can substitute your favorite cut of meat.  I think that should translate the sonic experience pretty well.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Is this a headphone forum or a nudists' colony?
> 
> I made a GIF.


I think that the red mushrooms popping up are poisonous.


----------



## UntilThen

Well Monster how did the c3g and 6 x 6bx7s go with Verite Closed? Did it cause a seismic shift in your part of the world?


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Is this a headphone forum or a nudists' colony?
> 
> I made a GIF.



Cool!  At first, I thought it was a day at UT's house!  He is the rollin'est mo-fo, there is!!


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Hmmm, the best sounding tubes are always difficult to find.


This is a very interesting observation - must drive people crazy that $2 tubes can sound excellent.....

Reminds me of a hi-fi cartoon (modified slightly) where one guy says to another: I am drawn to tube amplifiers because of the cost and inconvenience.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Well Monster how did the c3g and 6 x 6bx7s go with Verite Closed? Did it cause a seismic shift in your part of the world?


I'll let you know in about eight hours. I dont listen to headphones during the day. I have a teenaged stepson I need to keep my ears open for so he doesnt burn down the house.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Cool!  At first, I thought it was a day at UT's house!  He is the rollin'est mo-fo, there is!!



Not anymore. That title goes to the new owners of GOTL. These days, I'm plugging my headphone jacks into different amps. The Sansui au-717 has the biggest, baddest bass.


----------



## UntilThen

Verite Open with Sansui 717 loudness switch on is just plain crazy. The headphone has become a planar magnetic now.


----------



## UntilThen

Dang the GEC U52 in Studio Six is pure magic. Switching to Mullard GZ34, the magic is gone. Love the U52. Hope it will last a long time. Now to win the Cossor 53ku, I've to go to war with the robot bidder.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> This is a very interesting observation - must drive people crazy that $2 tubes can sound excellent.....
> 
> Reminds me of a hi-fi cartoon (modified slightly) where one guy says to another: I am drawn to tube amplifiers because of the cost and inconvenience.



Definitely the GOTL makes much of inexpensive tubes.  6H13C or 6BL7 or 6BX7 or low end 6080's as powers, and lots of drivers that need not break the bank...sound delicious.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Dang the GEC U52 in Studio Six is pure magic. Switching to Mullard GZ34, the magic is gone. Love the U52. Hope it will last a long time. Now to win the Cossor 53ku, I've to go to war with the robot bidder.


 I have the 4 volt version,and yes,its a very distinct cut above all the other rectifiers I have. Curious as to how it compares to the WE 422a.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Not anymore. That title goes to the new owners of GOTL. These days, I'm plugging my headphone jacks into different amps. The Sansui au-717 has the biggest, baddest bass.



Hear ya bro!   I have been very enthralled with some juicy SS offerings lately, as well.   Not 70's stuff however  
But they *do* seem to make a lot of these latest DAC improvements...


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I have the 4 volt version,and yes,its a very distinct cut above all the other rectifiers I have. Curious as to how it compares to the WE 422a.



Check with Glenn if you can use this. Looks like straight out of Abrams tanks. 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RARE-NO...460091&hash=item4684a99942:g:rfQAAOSwQupXUTxO


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Check with Glenn if you can use this. Looks like straight out of Abrams tanks.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RARE-NO...460091&hash=item4684a99942:g:rfQAAOSwQupXUTxO


 I dont have that kind of cash at the moment. Saving my coins for a dedicated music server,besides isnt that seller known to be incredibly over-priced?


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> I'll let you know in about eight hours. I dont listen to headphones during the day. I have a teenaged stepson I need to keep my ears open for so he doesnt burn down the house.


Then you should skip the VC.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I dont have that kind of cash at the moment. Saving my coins for a dedicated music server,besides isnt that seller known to be incredibly over-priced?



Ah didn't even see it's our good friend bang bang but he does have some very unusual tubes.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> Then you should skip the VC.


 Everyone in the house is in bed by 9:30pm,except me. Im a lifelong night owl,so its no problem wearing closed backs from 9:30pm-3:30am.
Frankly speaking,I think it will be rather difficult for anyone to skip the VC once theyve heard it.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Frankly speaking,I think it will be rather difficult for anyone to skip the VC once theyve heard it.



I can't see anything that much better than Verite Open. I never believe all that hype before because I never believe in being a fan boy of any brand...... BUT ...... now that I've Verite O for more than 3 weeks now, I must say they are the best headphone for me. It's keeping me up every night listening to music. I've tennis in 7 hours time and I'm still awake at 5am. Life's good on the weekends.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> I dont have that kind of cash at the moment. Saving my coins for a dedicated music server,besides isnt that seller known to be incredibly over-priced?



Do you have a "commercial need" for an expensive music server, MZ?


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I can't see anything that much better than Verite Open. I never believe all that hype before because I never believe in being a fan boy of any brand...... BUT ...... now that I've Verite O for more than 3 weeks now, I must say they are the best headphone for me. It's keeping me up every night listening to music. I've tennis in 7 hours time and I'm still awake at 5am. Life's good on the weekends.


 Im not prone to be rave about headphones,unless theyre worth the praise. I am a ZMF fanboy,but Ive posted plenty of not so positive comments about some of their headphones around the forum.
You need to take my word for it. The VC is *really,really* good,and most importantly *not *redundant to the VO.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Do you have a "commercial need" for an expensive music server, MZ?


 Im not sure I understand the question.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> You need to take my word for it. The VC is *really,really* good,and most importantly *not *redundant to the VO.



I do believe you that's why I hate you because I've just bought Verite Pheasant wood. I am not in a hurry to add another headphone to the stable though because I'm looking at the HD800 and LCD-3f. They don't get much head time now. Very sad. HD800 was my fav before but it's been dethroned.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> I do believe you that's why I hate you because I've just bought Verite Pheasant wood. I am not in a hurry to add another headphone to the stable though because I'm looking at the HD800 and LCD-3f. They don't get much head time now. Very sad. HD800 was my fav before but it's been dethroned.



Aww you know I don't hate you. I better put a smiley in there lest you think I really hate you.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I do believe you that's why I hate you because I've just bought Verite Pheasant wood. I am not in a hurry to add another headphone to the stable though because I'm looking at the HD800 and LCD-3f. They don't get much head time now. Very sad. HD800 was my fav before but it's been dethroned.



Yup,I get it. Ive never been able to afford multiple big $ headphones. It seems like a waste to have 4 digit gear sitting around collecting dust. My collection has a couple of really nice headphones,and a bunch of rare,hard to find,collectors item type stuff. My sextetts and AD2000s are very good for the price I paid,and from that era,spectacular sounding IMO,but they no longer get a tremendous amount of head time,but theres a big difference between a 1970s era gem that I paid less than $125.00 for collecting dust and an HD800 or LCD3 serving the same purpose. 

I still break out the Sextetts or AD2000s when I want a fullfrontal metal assault on my senses,or my HD250s when Im in the mood for subterranean bass,but my ZMFs get about 85
% of my headtime these days. That figure will likely jump even higher when I get my own VC.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Adding new music to your library is always cheaper than adding more gear 

This is where I redirect my energy if I find myself in a state of insatiable gear lust.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Adding new music to your library is always cheaper than adding more gear
> 
> This is where I redirect my energy if I find myself in a state of insatiable gear lust.


 Yeah im constantly adding new albums from bands that ive 'discovered' 
Recently Ive been on a Pagan folk kick. I find it very relaxing,yet stimulating at the same time.

The server comes next,and then tubes for my two amps and DAC...somewhere in between,somehow the VC will get squeezed in. I should probably start a GoFundMe page.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> The server comes next,and then tubes for my two amps and DAC...somewhere in between,somehow the VC will get squeezed in.



Doing great Monster. A well thought out system can give you a lots of enjoyment for years to come. These are my building blocks now. I'm actually very happy with the system now but there is always room for one more tube amp.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> The VC is *really,really* good,and most importantly *not *redundant to the VO.


I hate you!  
Actually, I love you for understanding and reaffirming my "needs"... but my wallet most definitely hates you!!


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> I hate you!
> Actually, I love you for understanding and reaffirming my "needs"... but my wallet most definitely hates you!!


 Are you still attending the ZMF Festivus? You'll get a chance to hear it for yourself and then decide.
Sadly I cant attend. Im bummed. It should be a great event!


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Are you still attending the ZMF Festivus? You'll get a chance to hear it for yourself and then decide.
> Sadly I cant attend. Im bummed. It should be a great event!


Oh man!  You are one of the people I REALLY wanted to meet IRL


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Oh man!  You are one of the people I REALLY wanted to meet IRL


 Sorry bro. I was looking forward to meeting a lot of the members I interact with as well. 

Its a situation with federal laws conflicting with state laws that wont allow certain prescribed meds on flights. Unavoidable unfortunately.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Sorry bro. I was looking forward to meeting a lot of the members I interact with as well.
> 
> Its a situation with federal laws conflicting with state laws that wont allow certain prescribed meds on flights. Unavoidable unfortunately.


Bummer. Too early for me to know, but are you planning on CanJam NYC in Feb. 2020?  No flights needed for you - right?


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Sorry bro. I was looking forward to meeting a lot of the members I interact with as well.
> 
> Its a situation with federal laws conflicting with state laws that wont allow certain prescribed meds on flights. Unavoidable unfortunately.



Really I never had my Drugs checked going to Greece. And I take allot of drugs including hypodermic needles. I am a walking drug store
with all these drugs I take for cancer.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Really I never had my Drugs checked going to Greece. And I take allot of drugs including hypodermic needles. I am a walking drug store
> with all these drugs I take for cancer.


 dogs cant sniff needles,but they sure can smell weed. Im not risking going to jail over silly archaic federal laws.


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 6, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Bummer. Too early for me to know, but are you planning on CanJam NYC in Feb. 2020?  No flights needed for you - right?


 Ive missed the last two CanJams. My health is dodgy and I hate the cold. I asked the admins to consider having the NYC event in a less polar time of year. They didnt seem too fond of the idea. Oh well. Its also a five hour trip by train r/t. I did it in 2017,and it took a lot out of me.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Ive missed the last two CanJams. My health is dodgy and I hate the cold. I asked the admins to consider having the NYC event in a less polar time of year. They didnt seem too fond of the idea. Oh well. Its also a five hour trip by train r/t. I did it in 2017,and it took a lot out of me.


All I can say is: feel well my friend.  You WILL be missed!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 6, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Are you still attending the ZMF Festivus? You'll get a chance to hear it for yourself and then decide.
> Sadly I cant attend. Im bummed. It should be a great event!



This is my plan.  Sorry to hear you can't make it, D.

I'm hoping Zach will let me steal away a VO and VC briefly for a listen on my GOTL...but I know everyone is gonna be eager to hear them, we will see.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Im not sure I understand the question.



You said you were saving up for a dedicated music server...

A Raspberry Pi, and a big honkin' external HD connected to your router can accomplish that goal, cheaply.  So just wondered if you were buying something fancier,  for a reason (like a commercial venture).


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Sorry bro. I was looking forward to meeting a lot of the members I interact with as well.
> 
> Its a situation with federal laws conflicting with state laws that wont allow certain prescribed meds on flights. Unavoidable unfortunately.



Sounds like MJ, to me...?
Some states allow it, still illegal under federal law.  
All the "Federal" Credit Unions here are ditching their Federal charter, and adopting State charters, so they can legally gets their paws on that MJ money...


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> You said you were saving up for a dedicated music server...
> 
> A Raspberry Pi, and a big honkin' external HD connected to your router can accomplish that goal, cheaply.  So just wondered if you were buying something fancier,  for a reason (like a commercial venture).


 Oh! No,not for anything other enjoyment of music. @Gopher was mentioning that option to me as well,but im computer challenged. I had another device years ago that my computer constantly would fail to recognize. I spent several weeks of utter misery allowing their tech support to remotely control my desktop trying to figure out why I couldnt listen to music. I finally gave up and demanded my dealer take the POS back.

Im hoping the server I invest in doesnt have the same issues. Ive researched it and cant find too many complaints on the stability or interface. Wish me luck.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Have you tried the Gibosi suggested Mazda ECC804?  It sounds like a pair of C3g's in one tiny bottle.



No I have not, also those small pentodes he is running now  I bet sound pretty nice.



QUOTE="JazzVinyl, post: 15171291, member: 143302"]@whirlwind - spinning the Blues this AM..
Just heard Buddy Guy's "I've Got A Problem" - always makes me smile...
then:
Freddie King's "Let The Good Times Roll"  
And some
Robert Cray Band, Keb 'Mo, Etta James...
etc...
[/QUOTE]

Great playlist....





Monsterzero said:


> Are you still attending the ZMF Festivus? You'll get a chance to hear it for yourself and then decide.
> Sadly I cant attend. Im bummed. It should be a great event!



I hope to make it to this event some day...retirement is at least to the point where i can see light at the end of the tunnel.
I look forward to it.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Sounds like MJ, to me...?
> S



Yup. I have MS,and nearly died five years ago. I lost 60lbs and was down to 125lbs. My neurologist and gastro compared notes and got me on a cocktail of drugs that has essentially stabilzed my condition. I still have bad days,but my weight is back up,and im no longer getting sick nearly as often as before.

The ironic part about it is I hate weed. Never liked it,even as a teen,but I gotta do what works.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Ive missed the last two CanJams. My health is dodgy and I hate the cold. I asked the admins to consider having the NYC event in a less polar time of year. They didnt seem too fond of the idea. Oh well. Its also a five hour trip by train r/t. I did it in 2017,and it took a lot out of me.



What a bunch of BS you have to put up with. If you have a prescription for it It should be legal were ever you go in this country.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Ive researched it and cant find too many complaints on the stability or interface. Wish me luck.


So, which one did you decide on?
I was researching these as well a few months ago, but ended up with a GREAT small and fanless PC, running Win 10 and JRiver MC software.  I am VERY happy with it


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> So, which one did you decide on?
> I was researching these as well a few months ago, but ended up with a GREAT small and fanless PC, running Win 10 and JRiver MC software.  I am VERY happy with it


 Im pretty set on the Innous Zen Mini Mk 3 w/ a 4TB hard drive and upgraded power supply. Ultimately I'd like to upgrade to their TOTL model but thats serious cash.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Im pretty set on the Innous Zen Mini Mk 3 w/ a 4TB hard drive and upgraded power supply. Ultimately I'd like to upgrade to their TOTL model but thats serious cash.


Looks pretty cool.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Oh man!  You are one of the people I REALLY wanted to meet IRL



Sorry, he wants to meet me instead so he's coming to my CAM JAM in Sydney.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 6, 2019)

I bought a huge server tower probably 12 years ago.  I am still rocking the same tower and on my second motherboard. Tower sits under my desk 

 



Running windows 7 and music....not much else except internet surfing.

This thing will hold a lot of hard drives and I usually throw a new one in every couple of years.

It has served me very well.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I hope to make it to this event some day...retirement is at least to the point where i can see light at the end of the tunnel.
> I look forward to it.



Ah retirement, that golden period where you can spend more time with your tubes and tube amps. It's the best time of your life.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> It has served me very well.



I see what you did there 

I use a Synology DS918+ server, holds my entire music library.  I stream lossless to my PC over 5GHz wifi and stream to my two-channel setup via a Bluesound Node 2, nice cheap little streamer with a iOS/Android app interface.  That connects right to my Rogue Audio Sphinx V2 amp, which then feeds my NHT C3 bookshelves and SVS SB-1000 subfwoofer.

My stereo is probably "budget", but hey, I'm a starving student after all.  And my living room is  ̶t̶i̶n̶y̶  cozy, so a 2.1 is plenty, towers would probably kill my cats.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Im pretty set on the Innous Zen Mini Mk 3 w/ a 4TB hard drive and upgraded power supply. Ultimately I'd like to upgrade to their TOTL model but thats serious cash.



I once bought the Auralic Ares and I thought it look pretty cool but the lightning software just had to be rebooted each time I power it up. So I gave it to the Salvation Army and got Bill Gates music server instead.


----------



## UntilThen

Not only Bill Gates music server, I also have Steve Jobs music server.


----------



## JazzVinyl

If you know a little bit of Linux, the $65.00 Raspberry Pi, Credit Card sized computer can be your music server.  No monitor or Keyboard, it broadcasts an html server on your localhost, you use your laptop, phone or any device that can run a browser to control what is playing...

I have mine set up to run a really big playlist upon boot up.  So if power is interrupted and it comes back up...the music automatically starts flowing again.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow waking up to Verite and GOTL with Siemens EL11 and my motley crew of 6bx7gt, the music's so good I've to take the tube amp to the tennis court. Might start a new trend playing tennis with Verite on my head.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Wait till you see Tony's naked c3g. He's proud of it.



I can't remember if that was the pair I stabbed myself de-canning or not.  I sold a pair to somebody who was skittish about doing it themselves..... now I can't remember exactly who.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I also have another Raspberry Pi that sucks all the ads out of the internet.

And another serves as a personal VPN, so that you can surf 'secure' on any non secured wifi connection, anywhere in the world,  by calling home and logging in to your own VPN.

Have two that serve as music servers, and one, that I try and get the grandkids interested in programming on...but they dream of being on American Idol or being a "YouTube Star" instead.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I can't remember if that was the pair I stabbed myself de-canning or not.  I sold a pair to somebody who was skittish about doing it themselves..... now I can't remember exactly who.



Is this your handiwork? 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/zmf-verite.890270/page-187#post-15160184


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 6, 2019)

Anyone have much success mixing 6BX7s and 6AS7-types?  I am playing around with some 6BX7/7802 combos since they have similar gain, sounds pretty darn good!

Edit: just realized I can run a pair of 7802s with a quad of 6BX7s plus a driver at around 12A....this could get interesting.


----------



## pippen99

Monsterzero said:


> Im pretty set on the Innous Zen Mini Mk 3 w/ a 4TB hard drive and upgraded power supply. Ultimately I'd like to upgrade to their TOTL model but thats serious cash.



My choice came down to Innous Zenith Mk 3 and Lumin U1.  Ultimately I found a used U1 at a very reasonable price.  I like the separate power supply and the ability to fully unfold MQA.  I did not need the built in hard drive as my library is relatively small and fits comfortably on my desktop.  Also I have an aversion to paying for the inclusion of the ripper which I have absolutely no use for.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Anyone have much success mixing 6BX7s and 6AS7-types?  I am playing around with some 6BX7/7802 combos since they have similar gain, sounds pretty darn good!



I have run 5998 with 6BX7 - both 5x gain.

Glenn's amp makes all tubes sound great.  It'll drive ya nutz, in the end


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn, please put me in the queue for an amp. It'll be either Berlin or Hercules 300b.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> I have run 5998 with 6BX7 - both 5x gain.
> 
> Glenn's amp makes all tubes sound great.  It'll drive ya nutz, in the end



Nice!  I'll have to give that a shot.  Maybe I am missing something, but I have the 6BX7 at an amp factor of 10?  So far, early impressions are quite good, I'll have to mix and match with different 6BX7s.

I call this roll "Tung-Sol Monstrosity", it's alive mwahahaha!!!


----------



## Sound Trooper

Monsterzero said:


> Im pretty set on the Innous Zen Mini Mk 3 w/ a 4TB hard drive and upgraded power supply. Ultimately I'd like to upgrade to their TOTL model but thats serious cash.



I second the innuos, however get at least the zen mk3, it really is a step up.

I’m still rocking my zen mk2. It sounds good, is very stable an works every time. No flapping about with different softwares, just musical enjoyment.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 6, 2019)

Delete


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Nice!  I'll have to give that a shot.  Maybe I am missing something, but I have the 6BX7 at an amp factor of 10?  So far, early impressions are quite good, I'll have to mix and match with different 6BX7s.
> 
> I call this roll "Tung-Sol Monstrosity", it's alive mwahahaha!!!



Nice Photo!

I thought BX's were 5 and BL's 10?

.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> I have run 5998 with 6BX7 - both 5x gain.
> 
> Glenn's amp makes all tubes sound great.  It'll drive ya nutz, in the end


----------



## UntilThen

Just bought a pair of Western Electric 420a. I'll use them in GOTL. Amplification of 70 - similar to 12AT7 (60).


----------



## Monsterzero

Sound Trooper said:


> I second the innuos, however get at least the zen mk3, it really is a step up.
> 
> I’m still rocking my zen mk2. It sounds good, is very stable an works every time. No flapping about with different softwares, just musical enjoyment.



I have a quickly growing music collection,closing in on 2TB. The price of the non-Mini is too much for my meager non-existent income. The logical solution is to get a large external HD,however Ive been told that there is a subjective 30% drop in SQ from using an external vs. internal HD. I dunno if thats true or not as Ive never heard an Innous product of any kind. Just buying based upon what Ive read.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 6, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice Photo!
> 
> I thought BX's were 5 and BL's 10?
> 
> .



Thanks!  Professor Google is telling me the 6BX7 clocks in at an amp factor of 10 and the 6BL7 at a whopping 15.



UntilThen said:


> Just bought a pair of Western Electric 420a. I'll use them in GOTL. Amplification of 70 - similar to 12AT7 (60).



Should sound great!  I really enjoy the Western Electric JW 2C51 in the GOTL.  It's a 6DJ8 equivalent, adapter courtesy of Deyan (of course).


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Should sound great! I really enjoy the Western Electric JW 2C51 in the GOTL. It's a 6DJ8 equivalent, adapter courtesy of Deyan (of course).



Bought the pair for $110 aussie dollars. Just realised I already have the adapter. 6DJ8 to 6SN7 adapter.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I have a quickly growing music collection,closing in on 2TB. The price of the non-Mini is too much for my meager non-existent income. The logical solution is to get a large external HD,however Ive been told that there is a subjective 30% drop in SQ from using an external vs. internal HD. I dunno if thats true or not as Ive never heard an Innous product of any kind. Just buying based upon what Ive read.



I think you should buy this or I should buy it.
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/291742-fs-aurender-n100h-2tb-server-silver-5tb-hdd/


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Bought the pair for $110 aussie dollars. Just realised I already have the adapter. 6DJ8 to 6SN7 adapter.



Nice.  The yellow Western Electric print is a trigger, like moths to the flame, we tube rollers cannot resist.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Nice.  The yellow Western Electric print is a trigger, like moths to the flame, we tube rollers cannot resist.



Western Electric, GEC and Osram labels are a trigger for me but I'm no moth.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I think you should buy this or I should buy it.
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/291742-fs-aurender-n100h-2tb-server-silver-5tb-hdd/


 Somehow I dont think this will work for me without a step down converter. Its all yours. Let us know how it sounds.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Somehow I dont think this will work for me without a step down converter. Its all yours. Let us know how it sounds.



How generous of you ! 

I was going to ditch my Rega RP8 and all vinyl accessories for a better digital system but my son fell in love with the TT system at home. So I'll let that stay and let him enjoy it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I think gibosi corrected me on this a short while back...6BX7 has an amplification gain of 10, 6BL7 is 15!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> I have a quickly growing music collection,closing in on 2TB. The price of the non-Mini is too much for my meager non-existent income. The logical solution is to get a large external HD,however Ive been told that there is a subjective 30% drop in SQ from using an external vs. internal HD. I dunno if thats true or not as Ive never heard an Innous product of any kind. Just buying based upon what Ive read.



Really? Transporting the ones and zeros from an external HD vs an internal one costs you a 30% drop in SQ?

I have some wonderful bridges in NYC for sale, if anyone is interested...you could install a toll bridge and become rich in days!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Somehow I dont think this will work for me without a step down converter. Its all yours. Let us know how it sounds.



You meant a *step* *up transformer*...120 to 240 volts..?


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Should sound great! I really enjoy the Western Electric JW 2C51 in the GOTL. It's a 6DJ8 equivalent, adapter courtesy of Deyan (of course).



It was the Western Electric 396a (2C51) that Currawong use with good results in the Studio Six. I wonder if the WE 420a is ok? Have you tried the WE 420a in the GOTL?


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 6, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Really? Transporting the ones and zeros from an external HD vs an internal one costs you a 30% drop in SQ?
> 
> I have some wonderful bridges in NYC for sale, if anyone is interested...you could install a toll bridge and become rich in days!


 The markup thru Innous for added internal storage is only $100.00 per terabyte,so I dont see any financial motivation from the person who told me that. The real outlay is in the upgraded power supply,which is an added 700.00 give or take. I have experienced first hand what improved power can do for sound,so im not budging on that. For the Mini+4TB+power supply,im looking at 2k-2300.00 depending upon whom I buy from.

For the non mini with the same specs its 3600.00

For the TOTL Zenith its about 4600.00


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> It was the Western Electric 396a (2C51) that Currawong use with good results in the Studio Six. I wonder if the WE 420a is ok? Have you tried the WE 420a in the GOTL?



I haven't, sorry, but I would imagine since they are both WE miniatures, they could sound pretty similar.  I have yet to hear a WE tube that didn't sound fantastic.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> You meant a *step* *up transformer*...120 to 240 volts..?


 Yeah,something like that. I bought one and packed it in my luggage when I moved to Thailand,but I dont recall if its up or down. All I know is theyre huge,weigh a ton and dont wanna mess with them again.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I haven't, sorry, but I would imagine since they are both WE miniatures, they could sound pretty similar.  I have yet to hear a WE tube that didn't sound fantastic.



Thanks I'll try them out in both amps and if I blow them up, it would be a good excuse to get another amp.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 6, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> All I know is theyre huge,weigh a ton and dont wanna mess with them again.



Your transformer can't be heavier than my step down Tortech transformer at 16 kgs - 1500w. That's for using made in Japan equipment at 100v.


----------



## gibosi

On the topic of computers...

As Microsoft will be discontinuing support for my Windows 7 PC next year, I am considering jumping off the MS bandwagon and as way to get my feet wet, trying to boot and run Linux from a USB flash memory stick. And I am wondering how well these stripped down versions of Linux support DACs?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> The markup thru Innous for added internal storage is only $100.00 per terabyte,so I dont see any financial motivation from the person who told me that. The real outlay is in the upgraded power supply,which is an added 700.00 give or take. I have experienced first hand what improved power can do for sound,so im not budging on that. For the Mini+4TB+power supply,im looking at 2k-2300.00 depending upon whom I buy from.
> 
> For the non mini with the same specs its 3600.00
> 
> For the TOTL Zenith its about 4600.00



Really?  This device contains the DAC too?  Or just the storage of the ones and zeros?


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Really?  This device contains the DAC too?  Or just the storage of the ones and zeros?


No DAC. Don't need a DAC. Just transport of digital files


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> On the topic of computers...
> 
> As Microsoft will be discontinuing support for my Windows 7 PC next year, I am considering jumping off the MS bandwagon and as way to get my feet wet, trying to boot and run Linux from a USB flash memory stick. And I am wondering how well these stripped down versions of Linux support DACs?



They support them just dandy.  I think you will love Linux, G...all kinds of "often updated" totally free software.
The Raspberry Pi's use a flavor of the Linux OS.  For my Laptop, I like "Linux Mint".
Both the Pi and the laptop can run "VLC" which is the player software for all files audio and video.  It has a tremendous number of settings that you can adjust.  Seems daunting at first, but if you try all the settings, you will learn a lot about how digital files can be manipulated.  

Please check out Linux Mint for your computer(s):

https://linuxmint.com/

I have an old laptop computer that my wife was about to gently place in the trash can, because it would just BARELY boot windows 7.  
I said WAIT...and installed Mint, the 32 bit version, runs like a scalded duck, and I have enjoyed it for years.

Linux does not "slowly but surely deteriorate, and SLOW DOWN" like Windoze does....you'll love Mint!!  If the 64 bit seems too much, for your CPU, fall back to the 32 bit version and you will be a happy camper.

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> No DAC. Don't need a DAC. Just transport of digital files



That's what I thought.  The DAC might benefit from a better power supply...
Good luck with your purchase MZ.


----------



## attmci (Sep 6, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> No DAC. Don't need a DAC. Just transport of digital files


LOL

Time to get rid of your DAC too. JK.

R u using I2S? It's better than usb, network etc.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> LOL
> 
> Time to get rid of your DAC too. JK.
> 
> R u using I2S? It's better than usb, network etc.


 I asked about l2S when I was finalizing my build and it wasnt an option.


----------



## Zachik

Tonight session requires no headphones or amp


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> They support them just dandy.  I think you will love Linux, G...all kinds of "often updated" totally free software.
> The Raspberry Pi's use a flavor of the Linux OS.  For my Laptop, I like "Linux Mint".
> Both the Pi and the laptop can run "VLC" which is the player software for all files audio and video.  It has a tremendous number of settings that you can adjust.  Seems daunting at first, but if you try all the settings, you will learn a lot about how digital files can be manipulated.
> 
> ...



Thanks! I will download it and then see if I can figure out how to get it to run from a USB stick.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Zachik said:


> Tonight session requires no headphones or amp



Wonderful, Z...!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Thanks! I will download it and then see if I can figure out how to get it to run from a USB stick.



I know they have an ISO (disk image) that you burn to CD..then have your computer boot to CD...you can run the apps, and if you like, there is an install option.  It will see windows and ask if you want to overwrite and use the whole disk, or preserve the current OS.  If you keep windows, Mint will install a dual boot system, you will be able to choose to boot windows, or mint at startup....


----------



## DecentLevi

gibosi said:


> I am currently rolling through rectifiers to see which has the best synergy with the Telefunken EL11. This evening, it is a Mazda UU8 which has a tonality similar to the Mazda ECC804. Perhaps rolling the three drivers -- ECC804 with the EL11 -- might be similar... Anyway, it sounds great, but will withhold judgement until after I have had a chance to try the Mullard GZ32 and Cossor 53KU. Currently listening to Georgia Anne Muldrow (Overload) and Sasha Sloan (Loser)...


Hi Gibosi what was your verdict between the Mazda ECC804 or UU8, or Mullard GZ32 and Cossor 53KU? If you don't mind, which did you prefer and why? And do some really sound about the same as the C3G? Thanks


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> I know they have an ISO (disk image) that you burn to CD..then have your computer boot to CD...you can run the apps, and if you like, there is an install option.  It will see windows and ask if you want to overwrite and use the whole disk, or preserve the current OS.  If you keep windows, Mint will install a dual boot system, you will be able to choose to boot windows, or mint at startup....



Thanks for the advice. I will try booting from the USB stick first. And if I feel comfortable with Linux, I will take the next step and install it and use it as my daily driver. However, there are few windows programs I wish to keep and if I can't run them in some kind of virtual windows machine then I will set it up to dual boot. But of course, first things first, I need to figure out how to boot from USB. Thanks again.


----------



## Zachik

Going to start any minute...


----------



## gibosi

DecentLevi said:


> Hi Gibosi what was your verdict between the Mazda ECC804 or UU8, or Mullard GZ32 and Cossor 53KU? If you don't mind, which did you prefer and why? And do some really sound about the same as the C3G? Thanks



Very frankly, I can't remember for sure....  But I believe that I preferred the GZ32 with the Telefunken EL11. Generally, I find Telefunkens to be too thin in the mid range and too airy on top. So I instinctively try to find combinations that are darker with a rich midrange to compensate. The Cossor 53KU was a little too neutral and I think the GZ32 was better at enhancing the midrange. And the UU8 was quite good, but I liked the GZ32 better.

The only reason I mentioned the Mazda ECC804, which is a double triode, a driver, was to give some idea about the sound of the UU8, which is a 4-volt rectifier that few here have tried.


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 7, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Tonight session requires no headphones or amp


 Im guessing Ted Nugent isnt on the bill this evening?

So,the C3g+6x 6bx7+GEC 18/20 with the VC is fantastic. Better separation,depth and impact vs. the Ken Rad VT231. The tradeoff is less ethereal creamy-ness in the mids,and perhaps perceived sub bass.

So after extended listening I think I prefer the Ken Rad VT231 over the c3g for the VC. both are fantastic sounding,but im missing that creamy midrange,and contrary to the strike-thru,the sub-bass is lessened a bit.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> m guessing Ted Nugent isnt on the bill this evening


Nope. S&M 2


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Nope. S&M 2


 Oh damn! Really?!? Is this a one-off show,or are they doing a full symphony tour?


----------



## Zachik

2 off. Tonight and Sunday. Both in San Francisco. Sorry to disappoint...


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> 2 off. Tonight and Sunday. Both in San Francisco. Sorry to disappoint...


 Ive seen Metallica several times,with no interest in seeing them again,but for a S&M reprise,I'd be all over it. Enjoy!


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 7, 2019)

gibosi said:


> Very frankly, I can't remember for sure....  But I believe that I preferred the GZ32 with the Telefunken EL11. Generally, I find Telefunkens to be too thin in the mid range and too airy on top. So I instinctively try to find combinations that are darker with a rich midrange to compensate. The Cossor 53KU was a little too neutral and I think the GZ32 was better at enhancing the midrange. And the UU8 was quite good, but I liked the GZ32 better.
> 
> The only reason I mentioned the Mazda ECC804, which is a double triode, a driver, was to give some idea about the sound of the UU8, which is a 4-volt rectifier that few here have tried.


Thanks much! So what are some of your most recommended mini / 9-pin noval driver tubes? Actually something that is neutral, detailed and dynamic with good bass definition. Perhaps with a sound like the C3G as I'm not sure if those would be compatible with adapters in the 6SN7 slot of my upcoming amp, and already have a lot of adapters for mini tubes. It was recently posted here that you thought the Mazda ECC804 sounds just like the C3G but I'm not sure whether that's an urban legend now.

I already have a few that do that sound signature - RCA 6N7 metal tube (LOVIN THIS one for all rhythmic music on the Euforia amp), and mini tubes like Tesla ECC88 and authentic 'holy grail' Reflektor 'SWGP' 6N23P


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Ive seen Metallica several times,with no interest in seeing them again,but for a S&M reprise,I'd be all over it. Enjoy!


Thanks buddy


----------



## UntilThen

GOTL with Telefunken EL11 and 6 x 6bx7gt (4 Los Gatos - Tung Sol and 2 Fivre)  ........ need to qualify here otherwise others wouldn't know what brand tubes I use 

This combination with Verite is where I arrived at Utopia and I don't mean Focal Utopia. I mean the perfect place, paradise, Shangri-La, Elysium.

If I had to order GOTL again, I will ask for EL11 sockets in place of c3g sockets. Everything else stays the same.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 7, 2019)

In case you're wandering why I use an odd combination of 6bx7s - well it's all I got. 6bx7s are a vanishing commodity unfortunately. If you can get them as singles and any brand, do so because in time to come, there will not be a single 6bx7 left.

If you prefer 6BL7, that's fine too. Get them. 6BL7 has more gain and will no doubt sound louder.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> In case you're wandering why I use an odd combination of 6bx7s - well it's all I got. 6bx7s are a vanishing commodity unfortunately. If you can get them as singles and any brand, do so because in time to come, there will not be a single 6bx7 left.
> 
> If you prefer 6BL7, that's fine too. Get them. 6BL7 has more gain and will no doubt sound louder.



You can still get some good deals if you buy singles.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/General-El...218681?hash=item26183a1bf9:g:uckAAOSw6aJcmOK9


----------



## attmci (Sep 7, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I asked about l2S when I was finalizing my build and it wasnt an option.


I see.

Something about the 1010100001010101:

"reclockers typically take a data stream that has an explicit clock or implicit clock (the clock is integrated into the data stream) and separates the clock and data, then it generates a better, cleaner, lower jitter, etc. clock and sends out the new clock and data in a bit perfect manner. Depending on the protocol these may go out on separate lines (e.g. I2S) or combined (S/PDIF, AES3, etc.)

When you add USB into the mix things are weirder: with USB there is no explicit audio clock, the data is bucketed, the buckets come at 8KHz and any USB audio receiver has to generate a clock whose average speed just matches the average number of samples coming in in the buckets. To complicate matters further USB can either just get data crammed down it’s throat and have to figure out the output clock rate by explicitly doing that rate averaging, or it can generate it’s own clock and send information upstream to the USB host so that the host sends data at exactly the right number of samples per second to match the USB’s clock.

There are also asynchronous sample rate converters which take in the data with one clock, generate their own local (hopefully cleaner) clock and then resample the incoming data to the new clock rate. In this case note that although the output has a clean clock, the data has been modified to give the same wave shape that came in based on the dirty clock. I.e. the incoming jitter has been encoded in the data and hence, ASRC isn’t a bit perfect process.

Anyway at best reclocker is ambiguous when talking about USB digital to digital devices and at worst it’s obfuscating the function that’s really happening.

The Matrix does the best technical version of the above, it generates a great clock, asks the host to send data down at that rate and then formats that clock and data into I2S, S/PDIF and AES3. Technically this is all redundant with the function in the DS, but in practice differences in grounding, noise transmission, etc. can make for better sound quality."


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You can still get some good deals if you buy singles.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/General-El...218681?hash=item26183a1bf9:g:uckAAOSw6aJcmOK9



It's a good deal no doubt even though it's not tested but the tube cost $1.49 and shipping is $19.05. 

I guess I should just buy a plane ticket and come and visit you and also buy all the tubes I need and bring it home.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It's a good deal no doubt even though it's not tested but the tube cost $1.49 and shipping is $19.05.
> 
> I guess I should just buy a plane ticket and come and visit you and also buy all the tubes I need and bring it home.



Shipping is $5 within the US.
Problem for you is the 6BX7 was not all that common outside the US that goes for the 6BL7 too.
They were used as a vertical oscillator and vertical power output in early US TVs.
Sometimes in amplifiers but not that much. I knew they were good sounding tubes as I built a amp that used
a 6BL7 as a child.  One 6BL7 in push pull puts out 11 watts not bad quite loud. At 12 years old drove my parents nuts.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 7, 2019)

I have been listening to SS...back to tubes and LCD-3 today.




The EL3N tubes are  Eindhoven EL3N manufactured in 1944.
They take a good hour to get going...but when they do they sound great.

Rectifier warm side of neutral, EL3N warm side of neutral, headphones warm side of neutral.
Bass is deep, clean, textured....mids are really really smooth ...like hersheys milk chocolate, lol

Listening to my Tab Benoit collection. This man is good!


----------



## UntilThen

Another night of firing up both tube amps. GOTL is just deck with a very simple GE 6SN7gtb and 6 x 6bx7gt but the way it drives Verite is just plain crazy good. Studio Six drives it just as well but with the price difference, I expect Studio Six to be much better and not just being on par.

By now Verite has done about 100 hours and it's soaring and soaring skyward. If I haven't heard it for myself, day after day for 3 weeks, I wouldn't know how good it is. This headphone is astonishing !!! Worth every cents of the $9999 that I paid.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> At 12 years old drove my parents nuts.



You must be very talented as a child. I wish I could solder, forget about building an amp. Now how about building me an amp using EL11 as drivers and EL12 spez as power tubes with a tube rectifier. That's all. Nothing fancy. I promise I won't tube roll. I just want to savour the sound of Telefunken EL tubes. I have both EL11 and EL12 spez with Telefunken branding. Genuine Telefunken - hence I am calling it Berlin.

Now I'm giving you my best smile.  so please say yes.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Another night of firing up both tube amps. GOTL is just deck with a very simple GE 6SN7gtb and 6 x 6bx7gt but the way it drives Verite is just plain crazy good. Studio Six drives it just as well but with the price difference, I expect Studio Six to be much better and not just being on par.
> 
> By now Verite has done about 100 hours and it's soaring and soaring skyward. If I haven't heard it for myself, day after day for 3 weeks, I wouldn't know how good it is. This headphone is astonishing !!! Worth every cents of the $9999 that I paid.



$9999????
Wait till it has 300+ hrs on it sounds unbelievable so good I pretty use nothing else now.
Not even my beloved HD-800s.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> You can still get some good deals if you buy singles.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/General-El...218681?hash=item26183a1bf9:g:uckAAOSw6aJcmOK9



Yes, there are some good deals on singles.
Just buy nos or good tested tubes and don't fret them not being perfectly matched.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> You must be very talented as a child. I wish I could solder, forget about building an amp. Now how about building me an amp using EL11 as drivers and EL12 spez as power tubes with a tube rectifier. That's all. Nothing fancy. I promise I won't tube roll. I just want to savour the sound of Telefunken EL tubes. I have both EL11 and EL12 spez with Telefunken branding. Genuine Telefunken - hence I am calling it Berlin.
> 
> Now I'm giving you my best smile.  so please say yes.



OK
Do you want the proper sockets for them?
I will have to look up the specks on the EL12 spez to get the most out of it.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> $9999????
> Wait till it has 300+ hrs on it sounds unbelievable so good I pretty use nothing else now.
> Not even my beloved HD-800s.



It sounds like it's worth $9999.   So you're telling me in another 200 hours, this headphone will morphed into a unicorn? I can't imagine it getting any better. Really I can't. I have no idea what that might be. With the tube amps, it's the best way to spend the evening.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> You must be very talented as a child. I wish I could solder, forget about building an amp. Now how about building me an amp using EL11 as drivers and EL12 spez as power tubes with a tube rectifier. That's all. Nothing fancy. I promise I won't tube roll. I just want to savour the sound of Telefunken EL tubes. I have both EL11 and EL12 spez with Telefunken branding. Genuine Telefunken - hence I am calling it Berlin.
> 
> Now I'm giving you my best smile.  so please say yes.




Wait!!!!!!!!!  " *I promise I won't tube roll".....hang on their buster   

*


----------



## 2359glenn

2359glenn said:


> OK
> Do you want the proper sockets for them?
> I will have to look up the specks on the EL12 spez to get the most out of it.



I know matched is not that important. Just don't get a used one that was cooked in a TV.

Time to Skype with Stavros


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Jim Cross at Vaccuum Tubes Inc. probably still as 150+ 6BX7 and hundreds of 6BL7.  No way we cleared him out since I posted his link!  Think he charges around $10-15 per tube.

I actually prefer the HD650 to the HD800.  Maybe I am crazy, but the HD800 just did not do it for me.  Amazing soundstage, detail, and imaging, but for me it lacked in musicality.  Never tried it on the GOTL though.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> OK
> Do you want the proper sockets for them?
> I will have to look up the specks on the EL12 spez to get the most out of it.



YES YES YES !  

Now you wake me up. 

Of course I want the proper sockets for them. No adapters for me. The top cap for the EL12 spez to come from the transformer housing like you suggest the last time. I will have 3 shiny pairs of Telefunken and Siemens EL11 and 3 shiny pairs of Telefunken EL12 spez. That should last me a lifetime.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Wait!!!!!!!!!  " *I promise I won't tube roll".....hang on their buster
> *



There's no way to tube roll this amp except the rectifier. By the way, I'm 20 hours from winning that Cossor 53ku. Woe be unto that robot if he beats me to it.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> YES YES YES !
> 
> Now you wake me up.
> 
> Of course I want the proper sockets for them. No adapters for me. The top cap for the EL12 spez to come from the transformer housing like you suggest the last time. I will have 3 shiny pairs of Telefunken and Siemens EL11 and 3 shiny pairs of Telefunken EL12 spez. That should last me a lifetime.



This will be a great amp. You will be amazed that they chassis on the amp never gets beyond luke warm no matter how long it is on....tubes could have a nice long healthy life


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> YES YES YES !
> 
> Now you wake me up.
> 
> Of course I want the proper sockets for them. No adapters for me. The top cap for the EL12 spez to come from the transformer housing like you suggest the last time. I will have 3 shiny pairs of Telefunken and Siemens EL11 and 3 shiny pairs of Telefunken EL12 spez. That should last me a lifetime.



They will last longer then that if not pushed to hard.
No need to push hard more then enough power for headphones.
I will use a CCS on the EL11 like I use on the EL3N. I know SS parts the horrors but it sounds good.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> This will be a great amp. You will be amazed that they chassis on the amp never gets beyond luke warm no matter how long it is on....tubes could have a nice long healthy life



Yup EL11 and EL12 spez will be as cool running as the EL3N. Can literally run it the whole day and it will not be hot. It will be my Summer amp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 7, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> I know matched is not that important. Just don't get a used one that was cooked in a TV.
> 
> Time to Skype with Stavros



Speaking of Stavros, he was very kind and helped me while looking into buying my first tube tester.  With his help and some research, I settled on a refurbished Jackson 648-R, which is on it's way to me right now.  Might replace some resistors for good measure, but it is 100% functioning, tested condition with a grounded power cord added.

It is a "dynamic conductance" tester, a fancier emission circuit more or less, but the Jacksons agree very well with Hickok's transconductance circuit, are reasonably priced, and hey they look cool!  Very excited.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> There's no way to tube roll this amp except the rectifier. By the way, I'm 20 hours from winning that Cossor 53ku. Woe be unto that robot if he beats me to it.



You can get enough of a change in the sound rolling rectifiers.. seems more subtle, yet somehow still can detect fairly easily after a few hours listening.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Speaking of Stavros, he was very kind and helped me while looking into buying my first tube tester.  With his help and some research, I settled on a refurbished Jackson 648-R, which is on it's way to me right now.  Might replace some resistors for good measure, but it is 100% functioning, tested condition with a grounded power cord added.
> 
> It is a "dynamic conductance" tester, a fancier emission circuit more or less, but the Jacksons agree very well with Hickok's transconductance circuit, are reasonably priced, and hey they look cool!  Very excited.




Very Nice.....great addition!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I will use a CCS on the EL11 like I use on the EL3N. I know SS parts the horrors but it sounds good.



What's this CCS? Please enlighten me.


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats @L0rdGwyn . Now I can send my tubes to you for testing.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Very Nice.....great addition!



Thanks!!!  I have been looking for a good one for a while.  This one popped up for $200 shipped, great price considering it has been refurbished, couldn't pass on it.



UntilThen said:


> Congrats @L0rdGwyn . Now I can send my tubes to you for testing.



I reserve the right to hold onto and listen to all tested tubes indefinitely


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> What's this CCS? Please enlighten me.



Constant Current Source or Constant Current Sink....I think this is what Glenn is referring to.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Constant Current Source or Constant Current Sink....I think this is what Glenn is referring to.



Still don't make sense to me. Ok never mind. As long as I can use my GEC U52, Mullard GZ34 and the yet to be won Cossor 53ku. May have to get the warm as cherry pie GZ32.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Speaking of Stavros, he was very kind and helped me while looking into buying my first tube tester.  With his help and some research, I settled on a refurbished Jackson 648-R, which is on it's way to me right now.  Might replace some resistors for good measure, but it is 100% functioning, tested condition with a grounded power cord added.
> 
> It is a "dynamic conductance" tester, a fancier emission circuit more or less, but the Jacksons agree very well with Hickok's transconductance circuit, are reasonably priced, and hey they look cool!  Very excited.



I have a Jackson too.

Has it been calibrated recently?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 7, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> What's this CCS? Please enlighten me.



It basically provides a constant current to the tube that stabilizes its operating point, ensures all parts of the input signal are amplified evenly, and lowers distortion.

Here is a good article from WTFamps.com lol a little technical but good info.

https://wtfamps.com/ccss-and-loadlines/

In the Bottlehead Crack for example, the "Speedball" is a CCS, which accounts for the big drop in distortion of the amp when added.



attmci said:


> I have a Jackson too.
> 
> Has it been calibrated recently?



Yes, but I also have a calibration tube on the way too  and Jim Cross' comprehensive manual.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Still don't make sense to me. Ok never mind. As long as I can use my GEC U52, Mullard GZ34 and the yet to be won Cossor 53ku. May have to get the warm as cherry pie GZ32.



in a nut shell....your tubes are going to be run pretty dang even and with a stable current to help it run at their fullest ability.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 7, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> It basically provides a constant current to the tube that stabilizes its operating point, ensures all parts of the input signal are amplified evenly, and lowers distortion.
> 
> Here is a good article from WTFamps.com lol a little technical but good info.
> 
> ...




I am stoked for football season to start tomorrow.

Go Browns!!

Down in the "dungeon" I have applied a nicer color of paint for the guys coming over every weekend.

This was even the wife's idea....she said they dungeon could use a fresh coat of paint!
Completed in a few hours time
Now to get the fridge full of beer.  




[/QUOTE]


----------



## UntilThen

I'm coming over Joe. Dang there are so many pairs of Telefunken EL12 spez suddenly.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> It basically provides a constant current to the tube that stabilizes its operating point, ensures all parts of the input signal are amplified evenly, and lowers distortion.
> 
> Here is a good article from WTFamps.com lol a little technical but good info.
> 
> ...


Stavros said he don't like that calibration procedure for some reasons. Ask him.


----------



## attmci (Sep 7, 2019)

deleted,


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> Stavros said he don't like that calibration procedure for some reasons. Ask him.



Alternatively, I will use Bob Putnak's procedure from tubesound.com


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 7, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> I am stoked for football season to start tomorrow.
> 
> Go Browns!!
> 
> ...



Joe, it looks great!!!  Words cannot describe, I am so pumped for this season.  The city is absolutely electric with excitement right now.  So, so many years of absolute garbage, it actually feels like the Browns are back!

I am guaranteeing a victory tomorrow, our Pro Bowl defensive line is going to wreak havoc.  GO BROWNS!


----------



## UntilThen

If you have tubes where the base have come loose from the glass, what's the best way to seal it aside from nail polish? If using glue, what kind? I see some sellers put a band between glass and the base to hold it. Where can I get those bands.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> It basically provides a constant current to the tube that stabilizes its operating point, ensures all parts of the input signal are amplified evenly, and lowers distortion.
> 
> Here is a good article from WTFamps.com lol a little technical but good info.
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

_I will only have the constant current source on the EL11 just like in the EL3N amp. Assuming the EL11 and EL3N are the same I will set the CCS
at the same 14ma.
This will not be on the output tubes EL12 spez.
The CCS also rejects noise from the power supply a added +.
I am curious how this EL12spez sounds this tube is new to me.
After you are my guinea pig I might convert my 300B amp to this tube if I like the sound. Tired of crappy expensive 300Bs_
_
_
It's ok I'll be the guinea pig but you'll love the EL12 spez. This site is what found when I was still researching articles for EL11, EL12, EL12 spez when I was still in Elise / Euforia thread.

Here's what one of the forum member says:-

_EL12 is exceptionally good and affordable!
I think it will beat 6V6,6L6,EL34 and even KT77 as a driver for 300B. Imho on the same league as WE349._

Of course it's just one person's opinion but EL11 sounds great to me and having heard EL12 spez myself in my Euforia amp, it's even better. Now Euforia is not created for such tubes. How it sounds good with these tubes is beyond me. Even Feliks Audio (Lukasz) told me it's not technically possible. So a custom amp made by you specifically for EL11 and EL12 spez should be really good.

https://m.review33.com/forum_msg.php?db=1&tstart=&s=&topic=54100807165734&start=60&sort=1&number=9


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Joe, it looks great!!!  Words cannot describe, I am so pumped for this season.  The city is absolutely electric with excitement right now.  So, so many years of absolute garbage, it actually feels like the Browns are back!
> 
> I am guaranteeing a victory tomorrow, our Pro Bowl defensive line is going to wreak havoc.  GO BROWNS!




Yes...I am certainly hoping this will be the most enjoyable season in the last 20 years .

I would be lying if I said i was not concerned about this offensive line though.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Yes...I am certainly hoping this will be the most enjoyable season in the last 20 years .
> 
> I would be lying if I said i was not concerned about this offensive line though.



Yeah it is a legit concern, the only potential weakness right now.  Hopefully Baker can minimize it since he gets the ball out quickly.  I'm not gonnna freak out if it looks sketchy tomorrow, could take some time for the line to gel.  Also, with so many weapons on offense, any defense would be taking a big risk to send extra pressure on any given play.  We will see!


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> _I will only have the constant current source on the EL11 just like in the EL3N amp. Assuming the EL11 and EL3N are the same I will set the CCS
> at the same 14ma.
> This will not be on the output tubes EL12 spez.
> The CCS also rejects noise from the power supply a added +.
> ...



I don't think it will sound like it does in the Euforia it will be run properly like it was ment to in a output stage. Not as a cathode follower.
Even though it seems to work great in the Euforia.
I will try them hooked up as a triode and see how they sound. Usually tubes hooked as a triode sound better them run as a pentode lower distortion.
But less power too. Really don't need the 18 watts these tubes will produce in pentode with headphones.
The lowest distortion is most important


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> If you have tubes where the base have come loose from the glass, what's the best way to seal it aside from nail polish? If using glue, what kind? I see some sellers put a band between glass and the base to hold it. Where can I get those bands.



I use this, Matt, water thin cyanoacrylate adhesive, it is strong stuff https://www.starbond.com/super-fast-thin-ca-glue.html

Not sure if it is available in Australia, but I'm sure another thin cyanoacrylate adhesive will be.  Just water thin super glue would work.  I use one or two drops right where the glass meets the base.  Because it is water thin, the drop immediately spreads throughout the space between the base and glass.  I think it also partially dissolves and rebonds the existing material tube manufacturers used, I've had a very good success with it.  

It dissolves in acetone, so I use a Q-tip and some acetone to remove the small amount of excess on the glass and base.  You just have to be very careful if you do it this way not to get the glue or acetone anywhere near print on the base or the glass, acetone will take the print right off.

I'm sure others have their methods, but this is what works for me


----------



## rosgr63

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks!  Professor Google is telling me the 6BX7 clocks in at an amp factor of 10 and the 6BL7 at a whopping 15.
> 
> 
> 
> Should sound great!  I really enjoy the Western Electric JW 2C51 in the GOTL.  It's a 6DJ8 equivalent, adapter courtesy of Deyan (of course).




Try the Bendix 6385 a very nice tube


----------



## L0rdGwyn

rosgr63 said:


> Try the Bendix 6385 a very nice tube



I'll keep an eye out Stavros, the Bendix 6385 and Ericsson 2C51 are the only two from that family I have not tried.  I think the 6385 are pretty rare these days.


----------



## rosgr63

I have both types somewhere in my collection.
The gold pin Ericsson are the best.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Happy page 2000 everyone


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Happy page 2000 everyone



Time for a group photo.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I don't think it will sound like it does in the Euforia it will be run properly like it was ment to in a output stage. Not as a cathode follower.
> Even though it seems to work great in the Euforia.
> I will try them hooked up as a triode and see how they sound. Usually tubes hooked as a triode sound better them run as a pentode lower distortion.
> But less power too. Really don't need the 18 watts these tubes will produce in pentode with headphones.
> The lowest distortion is most important



Strapped as triodes sounds good as we've found with the pentode tubes we've tried so far. Fully agree lowest distortion is the most important. The ability to drive most full size headphones will be sufficient, even with difficult load such as the Abyss.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I use this, Matt, water thin cyanoacrylate adhesive, it is strong stuff https://www.starbond.com/super-fast-thin-ca-glue.html
> 
> Not sure if it is available in Australia, but I'm sure another thin cyanoacrylate adhesive will be.  Just water thin super glue would work.  I use one or two drops right where the glass meets the base.  Because it is water thin, the drop immediately spreads throughout the space between the base and glass.  I think it also partially dissolves and rebonds the existing material tube manufacturers used, I've had a very good success with it.
> 
> ...



Thanks very much K. That is most helpful.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn how will your approach be with EL11 driving EL12 spez? Will you still be doing the 1 and 2 stage as you've done in the EL3N amp? 

I'm clueless. Do what you think best. You're the engineer and master amp builder.


----------



## UntilThen

These are the EL12 spez that I have. 

3 pairs of Telefunken.

 

1 pair of Tesla
 

I have many pairs of EL11s but I'll be using only the Telefunken and Siemens ones. Both my Telefunkens and Siemens have identical constructions externally and internally so I imagine they are the same. Here's the Siemens EL11.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> These are the EL12 spez that I have.
> 
> 3 pairs of Telefunken.
> 
> ...


 Sorry,but what is the difference between "spez" and non spez?


----------



## UntilThen

EL12 spez are the ones with the top cap. Spez means special - I think. 

Then you have the normal EL12 without the top cap. Those guys in review-33 reckon the EL12-spez is the best sounding and they should know because they are fans of Siemens Klangfilm amps which use these tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

It's Spring. Cherry blossoms are out.


----------



## nishan99

I have a little question/game for you  

what is the combo @zach915m used with his GOTL in RMAF?


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> EL12 spez are the ones with the top cap. Spez means special - I think.
> 
> Then you have the normal EL12 without the top cap. Those guys in review-33 reckon the EL12-spez is the best sounding and they should know because they are fans of Siemens Klangfilm amps which use these tubes.


 They can be used in the GOTL w/ same adapter,or you need different adapters?


----------



## Monsterzero

nishan99 said:


> I have a little question/game for you
> 
> what is the combo @zach915m used with his GOTL in RMAF?



Cant tell from that pic. Too blurry. Looks like an SN7 in front,6AS7g in rear,and some kind of rectifier.

Hows the VC sounding?


----------



## nishan99

Monsterzero said:


> Cant tell from that pic. Too blurry. Looks like an SN7 in front,6AS7g in rear,and some kind of rectifier.
> 
> Hows the VC sounding?



It was from a livestream


----------



## L0rdGwyn

nishan99 said:


> I have a little question/game for you
> 
> what is the combo @zach915m used with his GOTL in RMAF?



Hard to say, but I'm pretty sure that is a pair of RCA 6AS7G outputs and a Tung-Sol 12SN7GT BGRP input, I know he owns the TS.  No idea on the rectifier, not my forte.


----------



## Deyan

Monsterzero said:


> They can be used in the GOTL w/ same adapter,or you need different adapters?



A different one.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 7, 2019)

Continuing to explore my 6BX7/7802 output combos, hitting gold I think with the Osram L63 inputs, 4x Toshiba 6BX7GT and 2x Tung-Sol 7802 outputs.  Maintains the air of the Toshibas with the added dynamics of the 7802.  What I like about this setup is it lets me get more juice out of the output stage without having to use a quad of 7802s, and the 6BX7 and 7802 have similar gain (10 and 9).

With the UK, Japan, and the USA represented, I am calling this roll "The Cosmopolitan".


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Continuing to explore my 6BX7/7802 output combos, hitting gold I think with the Osram L63 inputs, 4x Toshiba 6BX7GT and 2x Tung-Sol 7802 outputs.  Maintains the air of the Toshibas with the added dynamics of the 7802.  What I like about this setup is it lets me get more juice out of the output stage without having to use a quad of 7802s, and the 6BX7 and 7802 have similar gain (10 and 9).
> 
> With the UK, Japan, and the USA represented, I am calling this roll "The Cosmopolitan".



And...it looks nice


----------



## gibosi

A mesh-plate Tesla AZ4 arrived today. 

It is my understanding that after the war, the Czech republic nationalized the electronics industry, which included at least one Telefunken plant, and turned everything over to Tesla. And this tube appears to have been manufactured at a Telefunken factory.

On the left, a Tesla AZ4 manufactured in 1948. And on the right, a Telefunken AZ12 manufactured in 1939. After I have had a chance to roll the Tesla, I will have a better idea if it is, in fact, a Teleufnken.

(And for anyone who might be interested, took JV's advice and installed LinuxMint and so far, everything seems to be working fine.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hard to say, but I'm pretty sure that is a pair of RCA 6AS7G outputs and a Tung-Sol 12SN7GT BGRP input, I know he owns the TS. No idea on the rectifier, not my forte.



You're right. The rectifier appears to be a GZ34 - not sure if it's Sittard or Mullard.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> They can be used in the GOTL w/ same adapter,or you need different adapters?



To use in the c3g sockets, you'll need Deyan to make you adapters for the EL12 spez. You can alternately use this adapter which I got when I was trialling the EL tubes in GOTL.

It's probably an overkill using the EL12 spez as drivers in GOTL. EL11 will be more suitable. Plus a pair of NOS EL12 spez is expensive.


----------



## UntilThen

nishan99 said:


> It was from a livestream



Thanks for the live stream. I would have love to attend a RMAF event. Lots of interesting stuff there. Are you Ron in the video?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> To use in the c3g sockets, you'll need Deyan to make you adapters for the EL12 spez. You can alternately use this adapter which I got when I was trialling the EL tubes in GOTL.
> 
> It's probably an overkill using the EL12 spez as drivers in GOTL. EL11 will be more suitable. Plus a pair of NOS EL12 spez is expensive.



How do they sound as drivers?


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> With the UK, Japan, and the USA represented, I am calling this roll "The Cosmopolitan".



Very nice. This thread has everything. Live stream, live tube rolling, live chats, etc.....


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> How do they sound as drivers?



To be honest I can't remember very well now but I do remember thinking to myself that it's no better or no worst than EL11 in the drivers seat. My impression is that the EL12 spez is better as power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> A mesh-plate Tesla AZ4 arrived today.



You know Ken, each time you made a post on rectifiers, I'm VERY interested now.  Tube rectifiers will be prominent in Project Berlin.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 7, 2019)

This is another shot of the EL tubes when I was going through proof of concept with using these tubes. I'm very impressed with the sound even in this unorthodox setup in a OTL amp. I can imagine it being only a lot better in a properly built amp with these tubes, especially by you Glenn.

GOTL looks like Starship Enterprise.


----------



## UntilThen

This tester pique my interest. Won't be getting one anytime soon because I don't think I have enough tubes to justify getting one.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> This is another shot of the EL tubes when I was going through proof of concept with using these tubes. I'm very impressed with the sound even in this unorthodox setup in a OTL amp. I can imagine it being only a lot better in a properly built amp with these tubes, especially by you Glenn.
> 
> GOTL looks like Starship Enterprise.



Does that work??  How do they sound in that crazy setup??


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Does that work??  How do they sound in that crazy setup??



You have no idea how good that sound. I didn't blurb it out too much because I'll look like a lunatic.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> You have no idea how good that sound. I didn't blurb it out too much because I'll look like a lunatic.



Only problem in that setup is the amp's auto bias going overtime like crazy. Once it locks in, you have a full scale orchestra. It's no longer a the joint at Dinos Bar but the ****ing Royal Albert Hall.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> You're right. The rectifier appears to be a GZ34 - not sure if it's Sittard or Mullard.


I believe Zach has the Sittard made GZ34. 



UntilThen said:


> . It's no longer a the joint at Dinos Bar but the ****ing Royal Albert Hall.


Hey, that's where I'm at. Find your own spot!


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I believe Zach has the Sittard made GZ34.
> 
> Hey, that's where I'm at. Find your own spot!



Hahahaha that's where I learn of Dinos Bar. Ok I'll go back to Abbey Road.


----------



## UntilThen

Abbey Road !!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Tabby Road !!!

 

Beagles Road !!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Tabby Road !!!
> 
> 
> 
> Beagles Road !!!



He's finally lost it...

I was listening to AB earlier today actually!  With two cats sitting at my feet...coincidence or fate?


----------



## zach915m

nishan99 said:


> I have a little question/game for you
> 
> what is the combo @zach915m used with his GOTL in RMAF?



They are sittard Gz34 - tung sol 5998 and tung sol 12sn7!


----------



## UntilThen

zach915m said:


> They are sittard Gz34 - tung sol 5998 and tung sol 12sn7!



Ooooo that ought to sound really good with Verite.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

zach915m said:


> They are sittard Gz34 - tung sol 5998 and tung sol 12sn7!



I guess we could have just asked Zach, instead of squinting at this picture taken with a potato camera ha!


----------



## 2359glenn

So you are using EL11 as outputs?? I didn't think they would work and now you say they sound good.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Hahahaha that's where I learn of Dinos Bar. Ok I'll go back to Abbey Road.



Friday night they'll be dressed to kill
Down at Dino's Bar 'n' Grill
The drink will flow and the blood will spill
And if the boys want to fight, you better let 'em


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 7, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> So you are using EL11 as outputs?? I didn't think they would work and now you say they sound good.



Not by choice. I didn't have enough EL12 spez to drop them in the power slots. So I use a pair of EL12 spez as drivers and 4 x EL11 as powers. In an ideal world the EL11 will be in front and the EL12 spez behind.


----------



## UntilThen

I think I have 5 of Tung Sol 12SN7gt and 12SL7gt black glass round plates. Talk about excesses.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> So you are using EL11 as outputs?? I didn't think they would work and now you say they sound good.


Come on, there is nothing should sound bad in the GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

This was last year's experiment when my EL tubes were limited. I have a lot more tubes now.

In the picture which was taken last year, I use 2 x EL11 as drivers and 2 x EL12 on one side of the power slots and 2 x EL12N on the other side of the power slots.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Come on, there is nothing should sound bad in the GOTL.



We should make you the marketing manager for GOTL.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> We should make you the marketing manager for GOTL.


The position was filled by our friend @stavros long time ago. 

My goal is to make a amp that sounds great with the cheapest tubes - *2359glenn*


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> This was last year's experiment when my EL tubes were limited. I have a lot more tubes now.
> 
> In the picture which was taken last year, I use 2 x EL11 as drivers and 2 x EL12 on one side of the power slots and 2 x EL12N on the other side of the power slots.



I guess why wouldn't it work.
A couple of years ago I built Stavros a amp that ran on all 6SN7s.  It has 4 output tube sockets on each side and a driver.
Nine 6SN7s but now he uses it with six 6BX7s instead of 6SN7s for the outputs.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I guess why wouldn't it work.
> A couple of years ago I built Stavros a amp that ran on all 6SN7s.  It has 4 output tube sockets on each side and a driver.
> Nine 6SN7s but now he uses it with six 6BX7s instead of 6SN7s for the outputs.



Yes I've run with 1 6sn7 as driver and 6 x 6sn7 as power tubes. Good sound just a bit lean and less gain. Very precise and good imaging.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 7, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Yes I've run with 1 6sn7 as driver and 6 x 6sn7 as power tubes. Good sound just a bit lean and less gain. Very precise and good imaging.



Hmmm...gonna try this tomorrow for fun with some silly setup.  Something like

Input: Mullard ECC32
Output: 2x Brimar CV1988, 2x RFT 6SN7, 2x Sylvania 6SN7W metal base


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hmmm...gonna try this tomorrow for fun with some silly setup.  Something like
> 
> Input: Mullard ECC32
> Output: 2x Brimar CV1988, 2x RFT 6SN7, 2x Sylvania 6SN7W metal base



I run it with seven Foton 6n8s and Tchaikovsky Swan Lake never sounded better !


----------



## attmci

The next is 6 GEC 6as7 and one B65 plus whatever C3g/EL4566699 etc. LOL


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Yes I've run with 1 6sn7 as driver and 6 x 6sn7 as power tubes. Good sound just a bit lean and less gain. Very precise and good imaging.



A little better with 8 X 6SN7 for outputs.  But the 6BX7s beat them with better SQ .
I am building a pentode OTL for Zach using two E130L per channel should put out 8  watts of OTL power.
That should drive any of his headphones. He has all 3 of my amps already so why not one more.


----------



## attmci (Sep 7, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> A little better with 8 X 6SN7 for outputs.  But the 6BX7s beat them with better SQ .
> I am building a pentode OTL for Zach using two E130L per channel should put out 8  watts of OTL power.
> That should drive any of his headphones. He has all 3 of my amps already so why not one more.


He had made too much $$$$$$.

And each sales personal need a GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> The next is 6 GEC 6as7 and one B65 plus whatever C3g/EL4566699 etc. LOL



Now we've to sack you as marketing manager.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I run it with seven Foton 6n8s and Tchaikovsky Swan Lake never sounded better !



Okay I couldn't wait, I just put in an ECC32 input, 2x Sylvania 6SN7W metal base, 2x Sylvania 6SN7W tall bottle, 2x Sylvania VT-231 for outputs.

It sounds surprisingly good!!!  Idk if it sounds good enough to burn up $1000 worth of tubes as powers, but pretty darn good.



2359glenn said:


> A little better with 8 X 6SN7 for outputs.  But the 6BX7s beat them with better SQ .
> I am building a pentode OTL for Zach using two E130L per channel should put out 8  watts of OTL power.
> That should drive any of his headphones. He has all 3 of my amps already so why not one more.



Gosh, that sounds awesome.  I'm hoping to pick up my spot in the queue some time early next year.  All of these Glenn amp prototyping conversations really make the gears turn...


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> A little better with 8 X 6SN7 for outputs.  But the 6BX7s beat them with better SQ .
> I am building a pentode OTL for Zach using two E130L per channel should put out 8  watts of OTL power.
> That should drive any of his headphones. He has all 3 of my amps already so why not one more.



E130L as strapped triode in OTL or as pentode? This is going to be interesting.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Now we've to sack you as marketing manager.


Unfortunately, Glenn cannot make enough for sale.

Those headphone driver, wood cap, headband are cheap. Glenn need to order the best transformers for your guys and other parts, and spend tons of time to assemble. .......


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> E130L as strapped triode in OTL or as pentode? This is going to be interesting.



Strapped in triode I think triode sounds best to me.
This is a very interesting tube. It is made to also be used as a cathode follower and series pass regulator like a 6AS7/6080 but a pentode. 
Might sound better then a transformer coupled amp but with as much power. And they are not that expensive yet.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> Unfortunately, Glenn cannot make enough for sale.
> 
> Those headphone driver, wood cap, headband are cheap. Glenn need to order the best transformers for your guys and other parts, and spend tons of time to assemble. .......



For ZMF, the cost is in the R&D, creating new and unique drivers, that is not cheap.  Plus the added cost of expensive, exotic woods.  For Glenn, the R&D is mostly done I would think, it is in his head from his many years of experience, so the cost is instead in the time to assemble and the sourcing of very good parts.

That is my impression at least.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Strapped in triode I think triode sounds best to me.
> This is a very interesting tube. It is made to also be used as a cathode follower and series pass regulator like a 6AS7/6080 but a pentode.
> Might sound better then a transformer coupled amp but with as much power. And they are not that expensive yet.



It is a very interesting tube indeed. A pair is capable of producing 60 w in class AB. That is serious power. 

I wonder how it sounds though but it's supposed to be a special quality pentode so should be good.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> For ZMF, the cost is in the R&D, creating new and unique drivers, that is not cheap.  Plus the added cost of expensive, exotic woods.  For Glenn, the R&D is mostly done I would think, it is in his head from his many years of experience, so the cost is instead in the time to assemble and the sourcing of very good parts.
> 
> That is my impression at least.



Most people don't know what it takes to make something from scratch. Just see the finished product but don't know what went into it.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> For ZMF, the cost is in the R&D, creating new and unique drivers, that is not cheap.  Plus the added cost of expensive, exotic woods.  For Glenn, the R&D is mostly done I would think, it is in his head from his many years of experience, so the cost is instead in the time to assemble and the sourcing of very good parts.
> 
> That is my impression at least.


We will consider you the marketing manager for ZMF. Please send your resume to Zack or myself.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Most people don't know what it takes to make something from scratch. Just see the finished product but don't know what went into it.


Now you agree with the soaring drug prices. Thanks much for your appreciation.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It is a very interesting tube indeed. A pair is capable of producing 60 w in class AB. That is serious power.
> 
> I wonder how it sounds though but it's supposed to be a special quality pentode so should be good.



So far bench testing it sounds dam good. Have to find the right operating point for best sound. Experimenting with different cathode resistors
to get the right bias point.


----------



## UntilThen

I should send you EL11 and EL12 spez for bench testing too.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 7, 2019)

attmci said:


> We will consider you the marketing manager for ZMF. Please send your resume to Zack or myself.



Hey, if it paid well, I'd take that job in a heartbeat!  Working critical care isn't very relaxing, surprisingly.

Plus the employee discount


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> So far bench testing it sounds dam good. Have to find the right operating point for best sound. Experimenting with different cathode resistors
> to get the right bias point.



This is where your expertise comes in. Right operating point. Right bias point. This is why tubes should be used only in amps it's design for otherwise it won't be optimal.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Most people don't know what it takes to make something from scratch. Just see the finished product but don't know what went into it.


Totally agree with Glenn.  I have been in the semi-conductor business for almost 20 years, and can absolutely confirm that R&D cost and NRE are real... most people tear-down a new product and complain that $130 for BOM cost should not translate to $700 of end-product price. Well... it does!! (unless you want hi-tech companies to stop R&D completely...)  A LOT of hidden cost and great ideas that do not pan out (but cost A LOT to test)!


----------



## Monsterzero

Can anyone ID this rectifier?


----------



## UntilThen

I'm running Tung Sol 12SL7GT black glass round plates with a pair of Tung Sol 5998 green letterings. Hexfred build in in GOTL. Similar to Zach's RMAF show setup but without the tube rectifier. Headphone is Verite LTD Pheasant wood Open. 

Very good choice of tubes Zach. This combination in GOTL is stunning with Verite. One of the best.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Can anyone ID this rectifier?



Can see it's a 5U4G rectifier. Can't see the brand. I can only id the Cossor 53ku which will be mine in 5 hours time if R2-D2 don't make a last minute bid for it.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Can anyone ID this rectifier?



Russian.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Russian.


Thanks Ken


----------



## Phantaminum

gibosi said:


> Russian.



Yep, definitely Rusky. Possibly the 5U4G US version or 5U3C. I like quite like the tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GOTL:
Mazda ECC804 as driver
2x 6BL7 flat plates and 4x Russian 6H8C's...as powers.

Quick dynamics, fat but not flabby/loose bass, and uber clarity and details.

If you love details, clarity and fast dynamics, try 'em, if ya got 'em.


----------



## Velozity

OctavianH said:


> Speaking about the queue, what is the average time of waiting for the GOTL? How you know your position in the queue? For me this is a total mistery.




FWIW I'm coming up on 5 months in the queue for my GOTL.  I don't know how much longer it will be.  But reading this thread every day is like being banned from recess and being forced to look out the window to the playground.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Velozity said:


> FWIW I'm coming up on 5 months in the queue for my GOTL.  I don't know how much longer it will be.  But reading this thread every day is like being banned from recess and being forced to look out the window to the playground.



Hey Vel...

Sympathies man!  I was in the cue a long time too, know the torture 
But one  beautiful day, the heavy beast will arrive, and sunshine will follow you, everywhere you go.
Hang in there!


----------



## JazzVinyl

ECC804 / 6BL7 Flat Plates / Russian 6H8C

These are all CHEAP tubes! No way these can sound this good!


----------



## UntilThen

Won this Cossor 53ku.


----------



## lukeap69

Velozity said:


> FWIW I'm coming up on 5 months in the queue for my GOTL.  I don't know how much longer it will be.  But reading this thread every day is like being banned from recess and being forced to look out the window to the playground.



Waiting is part of the fun... but I know what you feel.


----------



## UntilThen

Hello Arnold where have you been?


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Hello Arnold where have you been?


Hi Matt. Just lurking... I read this thread regularly.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Hi Matt. Just lurking... I read this thread regularly.



I think you need a new amp. Get the E130L amp that Glenn is bench testing. It will drive a mother lode.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> I think you need a new amp. Get the E130L amp that Glenn is bench testing. It will drive a mother lode.


I probably do. Just need to find time listening more. My next amp should be able to power my KEF LS50.


----------



## UntilThen

That might be a bit hard because the KEF LS50 is like my Axis VoiceBox S - rather inefficient at 85 db and thrives on lots of power. You're better off continuing to drive it with your Ragnarok. You can however get a nice tube amp that will drive the majority of headphones and a pair of high efficiency and tube amp friendly speakers.

I'm still going with Berlin !   Telefunken EL11 driving EL12 spez. I think Glenn should be able to extract 3 - 4 watts out of this.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> That might be a bit hard because the KEF LS50 is like my Axis VoiceBox S - rather inefficient at 85 db and thrives on lots of power. You're better off continuing to drive it with your Ragnarok. You can however get a nice tube amp that will drive the majority of headphones and a pair of high efficiency and tube amp friendly speakers.
> 
> I'm still going with Berlin !   Telefunken EL11 driving EL12 spez. I think Glenn should be able to extract 3 - 4 watts out of this.



More then 3-4 watts the EL12spez is rated at 18 watts


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> More then 3-4 watts the EL12spez is rated at 18 watts



Holy jupiters, that should drive any headphones including the HE6se. 18 watts is in pentode mode. What can you get in strapped triode?


----------



## 2359glenn

2359glenn said:


> More then 3-4 watts the EL12spez is rated at 18 watts



This should be a great amp if it sounds good to me I will convert my 300B amp to EL12spez but will drive it with a L63/6J5.
Can always use a adapter to use a EL3N driver already have this adapter for my OTL.
Should be easy to get more then 10 watts with 425 volts on the plate. 
And the EL12spez uses the same output transformer as a 300B saving me money.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Holy jupiters, that should drive any headphones including the HE6se. 18 watts is in pentode mode. What can you get in strapped triode?



I would say 8 to 10 watts.


----------



## 2359glenn

Going to the Greek fest in Rollie today. Lots of traditional Greek food.
And will buy some Christmas presents for Mamma. (Stavros mother but she adopted me and Lucy).
Of course the food won't be as good as Mamma's but it still will be good.
Might heart myself eating today.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I would say 8 to 10 watts.



That's as much as a 300b amp.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Going to the Greek fest in Rollie today. Lots of traditional Greek food.
> And will buy some Christmas presents for Mamma. (Stavros mother but she adopted me and Lucy).
> Of course the food won't be as good as Mamma's but it still will be good.
> Might heart myself eating today.



Enjoy. I love Greek food.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> That's as much as a 300b amp.



Yes I was going to convert it to a EL34 or KT88 but I think the EL12spez will sound better.
And they aren't as expensive as 300Bs that the filament burns out if it is not a WE or Tak.


----------



## UntilThen

You're not wrong in thinking that the EL12 spez will sound better. The guy who owns this amp seems to think so too.


----------



## 2359glenn

I found this out with the EL3N this tube sounds better then tubes that cost hundreds of dollars.
And only costs $20.
I think the EL12spez is another piece of gold not as cheep as a EL3N but not to bad.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tesla-EL12...718388?hash=item1ca0e925b4:g:c9wAAOSwktxafWYO


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> A little better with 8 X 6SN7 for outputs.  But the 6BX7s beat them with better SQ .
> I am building a pentode OTL for Zach using two E130L per channel should put out 8  watts of OTL power.
> That should drive any of his headphones. He has all 3 of my amps already so why not one more.


Do you think he is working on a new planar?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Hey @2359glenn , if I am getting a 47-step Goldpoint for the GOTL, is 25K the best choice?  With the Alps pot, listening volume with most tube combos is 9 o' clock or less.


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 8, 2019)

Yes 25K is the best to use. The Alps is 20K.
You might have to drill the hole out a little bigger Hopefully I counter bored the back of the face plate deep enough for the Gold point.
The face plate is 10mm thick to thick for most pots. So the counter boar lets the case of the switch go flush against  the face plate.
Do not try and use any washes it comes with the threaded part will just come out enough to get the nut on.
Might as well get there Knob too.
Not sure the knob setting will be any different with the gold point.
You might have to put a resistor in line from the input maybe 4.7k ohm to get more adjustment.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 8, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Yes 25K is the best to use. The Alps is 20K.
> You might have to drill the hole out a little bigger Hopefully I counter bored the back of the face plate deep enough for the Gold point.
> The face plate is 10mm thick to thick for most pots. So the counter boar lets the case of the switch go flush against  the face plate.
> Do not try and use any washes it comes with the threaded part will just come out enough to get the nut on.
> ...



Hmm I took a look inside, I see the front has been bored out maybe 3mm deep to fit the front nut and it looks like the inside has been bored as well, I can just make out a rounded depression on the side of the Alps pot, so it is definitely wide enough.  Can't say how deep, I'll be able to see better once I have the Goldpoint and can take the Alps off.  Goldpoint says to file off the locking key for thicker panels.

I think it will fit, maybe I have to drill the hole open a little bit.  I am going to try and put a 4.7kohm resistor in the signal path and see what it does for the volume too, thanks Glenn.

 

Goldpoint dimensions.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Enjoy. I love Greek food.


Who doesn't?!  
Enjoy Glenn!


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Won this Cossor 53ku.


I thought about bidding on that tube,but I didnt want to upbid you. Congrats!

@gibosi 

A tube popped up on eBay today that I believe youre familiar with. Thoughts on authenticity and price? Any limitations on mixing with other tubes? It can usae the same adapter as the GEC U18/20?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/352782113448?ul_noapp=true


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> I thought about bidding on that tube,but I didnt want to upbid you. Congrats!
> 
> @gibosi
> 
> ...



I bought my Tungsram PV 200/600 several years ago and unfortunately, I can't remember what I paid. But considering that this one is NOS, in its original box, the price doesn't sound unreasonable.

Yes, it uses the same adapter as the GEC U18/20. And there are no limitations in the GOTL. The name indicates that it can provide 200ma at 600v. But according to the documentation, it can provide 260ma at 500v, and perhaps even more at lower voltages. Since B+ in the GOTL is well below 500v this is a pretty powerful rectifier.

Tonally, this tube is close to a Tesla or Telefunken with similar treble and air. And IMO, like the Telefunken, this works well in a fairly dark system.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Thanks very much K. That is most helpful.


To glue the bases I use crazy glue with a little brush in the cap (Elmer's Glue - around $3). The brush hairs easily reach into the space between the glass and the base. Hold it together for one minute, then let it sit a day to dry, and that's it. Have not encountered any problems with it.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> That might be a bit hard because the KEF LS50 is like my Axis VoiceBox S - rather inefficient at 85 db and thrives on lots of power. You're better off continuing to drive it with your Ragnarok. You can however get a nice tube amp that will drive the majority of headphones and a pair of high efficiency and tube amp friendly speakers.
> 
> I'm still going with Berlin !   Telefunken EL11 driving EL12 spez. I think Glenn should be able to extract 3 - 4 watts out of this.


I use this amp to drive my two pairs of KEF LS50 killers - the Elac Debut:




220W/ch @ 4 ohms; stable down to 2 ohms


----------



## Taisser Roots

I was lucky enough to hear the Glenn at Canjam London.

For context I am friends with the UK ZMF distributor and kept visiting and listening on the system Throughout the day and probably racked up 30 minutes of listening time.
The ZMF UK distributor used to bring his iha1 and I've heard that amp on chord, the bimby and yggy with a metal base gz34 and a tube which I don't quite remember the name of at this point in time.
But I'm very experienced with that amp in multiple configs and different tubes

The Glenn I heard was in the canjam London config zmf bought.

I do not know whether or not it is the optimal setup.

"Nice slam
Less air than the iha1, it's definitely darker.
Similar resolve to that thing, I think more dynamic than the iha1. (Actually iha1 is more resolving by a good amount)
Less stage cohesion, but the seperation and stage still come across naturally, not as wide as the iha1"

These are rough notes from the show.

The bass response on these is the best I have heard from an otl, compared to the Feliks euphoria (in a show setup) there is an increased level of grip which gives attack in a bass note more clarity. This also translates to sustain and decay where the grip translates to a more dry characteristic to the bass than the euphoria which had very significant bloom.
Compared to the iha1 the texture of the bass was similar in terms of wetness. The difference is the dynamic heft of the Glenn being significantly better which creates a nice sensation of slam.
Unlike a lot of drier solid state amps, the Glenn bass has a very distinct sustain and decay which gives it a more natural timbre.

I forgot what dac this was with, but I've heard many other amps including the iha1 on it (probably chord).
I'd like to hear it on a dac like the rme where the bass is a lot linear but resolution and texture is better, to hear how it translates in the Glenn.

Most tube amps, particularly OTLs that I have tried compromise the bass quality (dealing with a lot of bleed), the Glenn didn't commit many sins and had good underlying technicality despite the DAC not being the best pairing.

It's definitely darker than the iha1, the mid treble and upper treble are dipped, the only otl amp I've heard which gets past this is the euphoria, my issue with that is that it still has dipped treble, it's just the mid treble isn't as dark as other OTL including cheaper Feliks.

Although this a trait which I've found OTC amps to excel in, the common signature of well designed OTC amps is often the low level information and immediacy which plays a significant role in the upper treble presentation.

I can't say overall if the macro dynamics were better or worse than the iha1 because I wasn't really listening for it at the time. I was also listening with my sennheisser hd580 since I'm not too familiar with zmf on different sources, and the macrodynamic capability of the hd580 is a quite lackluster. So I don't think it's a good judge of that.

Overall even under show conditions I would say the iha1 is more resolving regardless of its  greater mid clarity. Tension in strings and drums felt more defined, there was a greater sense of how each note interacted in the space, how it diffuses, the quality of its sustain and decay, this information came across more easily in the iha1.

Despite this I still think the Glenn is a very resolving amp, just that the iha1 is extremely good at conveying microdetail and texture.

For scale I'd say the Glenn is more resolving than all schiit amps except for the ragnaroks (won't talk about speaker amps), I think the resolution is competitive with the Feliks euphoria, just that the Glenn commits fewer sins in regards to bass and mid clarity.

It's because of this I find the stage cohesion of the iha1 better. In regards to the imaging, seperation and layering, because the iha1 resolves spacial cues better the way inducements interact with eachother is clearer, it makes the image a lot less fuzzier and contributes to it having better imaging.

The sound stage doesn't have the same sense of depth and width as the iha1.

Despite this I feel this sound stage s quite competitive at it's tier, whilst I think the euphoria has better imaging characteristics I'd struggle to find a lot of competing amps which come close to the Glenn otl  characteristics.

Overall, despite it probably not being the optimal tube setup and despite not liking the DAC.
I felt like the Glenn otl is a very competitive amp, particularly at this price point in the configuration I heard it in.

It's made me interested in hearing Glenn's 45 OTC in the future which I think will match my preferences better  and compare that to the iha1  in a similar quality setup.

Only issue is trying Glenn amps in the UK
I'm just not a fan of rolling.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I thought about bidding on that tube,but I didnt want to upbid you. Congrats!
> 
> @gibosi
> 
> ...


It appears to me that the same tube can be bought for half the price:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-TUNGSRA...207619?hash=item3b37ead643:g:SgwAAOSwPRldY3OR
Since both sellers have several and checking the Sold category on the left panel in search, nobody buys these tubes in the past two moths, I would suggest a low ball offer - just thinking aloud.....


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I found this out with the EL3N this tube sounds better then tubes that cost hundreds of dollars.
> And only costs $20.
> I think the EL12spez is another piece of gold not as cheep as a EL3N but not to bad.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tesla-EL12...718388?hash=item1ca0e925b4:g:c9wAAOSwktxafWYO



I have 3 of the Tesla EL12 spez. All new in box but one of them, the base have come off loose as I was pulling the tube out of the socket. This made in CZECHOSLOVAKIA tube looks nice but the glue is just a bit dodgy. Maybe they are very old tubes but it looks very new. The Telefunken EL12 spez looks nicer and is better quality physically. Sound wise I have not been able to compare.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I have 3 of the Tesla EL12 spez. All new in box but one of them, the base have come off loose as I was pulling the tube out of the socket. This made in CZECHOSLOVAKIA tube looks nice but the glue is just a bit dodgy. Maybe they are very old tubes but it looks very new. The Telefunken EL12 spez looks nicer and is better quality physically. Sound wise I have not been able to compare.


In my personal experience the glue is of better quality in the US made 40-50's tubes than the European tubes, and as a precaution I would reinforce the glue on all the bases of the old European tubes (and the anode caps if they have them) as soon as I got them.


----------



## UntilThen

Taisser Roots said:


> The bass response on these is the best I have heard from an otl, compared to the Feliks euphoria (in a show setup) there is an increased level of grip which gives attack in a bass note more clarity. This also translates to sustain and decay where the grip translates to a more dry characteristic to the bass than the euphoria which had very significant bloom.
> Compared to the iha1 the texture of the bass was similar in terms of wetness. *The difference is the dynamic heft of the Glenn being significantly better which creates a nice sensation of slam.*
> Unlike a lot of drier solid state amps, the Glenn bass has a very distinct sustain and decay which gives it a more natural timbre.



Very well articulated Taisser. I have not heard the iha1 but I had owned Euforia for one year in the past. Glenn OTL has been with me for nearly 2 years now. I paired it with Yggdrasil version 1, HD800 and now ZMF Verite. 

I agree with you on your findings with the Glenn OTL bass. Love it. I also agree that the Euforia has very significant more bloom compared to the GOTL. My preference is a tighter, more defined bass that the Glenn OTL gave. I find the GOTL resolves sufficiently for me. The ALO Audio Studio Six which I had just acquired 3 weeks ago, resolves much better but tone wise, I prefer the Glenn OTL. Soundstage depth and width hasn't been a big issue for me on GOTL. It is not as wide or deep as the Studio Six but it is wide enough for me with Verite and definitely HD800.

Just as a daily amp for listening to music, I just prefer the GOTL much better than the Euforia and even Studio Six. I know, quite incredible considering the price of the Glenn OTL compared with the others.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I thought about bidding on that tube,but I didnt want to upbid you. Congrats!



I had to bid against 4 other anonymous bidders !!! If you had join the fray, I will come to Dino's Bar and find you........ not with a club but for a beer.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> It appears to me that the same tube can be bought for half the price:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-TUNGSRA...207619?hash=item3b37ead643:g:SgwAAOSwPRldY3OR
> Since both sellers have several and checking the Sold category on the left panel in search, nobody buys these tubes in the past two moths, I would suggest a low ball offer - just thinking aloud.....


 Thanks Mordy. Ive been looking for a bright,airy rectifier for awhile now. 
You guys are much better at IDing tubes than I am. Are you confident these two auctions are for the same tube?


----------



## UntilThen

And please no bidding against the 2 pairs of Telefunken EL12 spez. I need that for Project Berlin.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks Mordy. Ive been looking for a bright,airy rectifier for awhile now.
> You guys are much better at IDing tubes than I am. Are you confident these two auctions are for the same tube?


Good question - don't know anything about rectifiers, but by looking at the pictures of the tubes, the color of the the print on the tube and the look of the boxes - even the date code is almost the same!, I would venture that it is the same tube.
x2 = June 1958 (Cheaper tube)
y2 = August 1958 (More expensive tube)


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 8, 2019)

Taisser Roots said:


> For scale I'd say the Glenn is more resolving than all schiit amps except for the ragnaroks (won't talk about speaker amps)



Just need to comment on this again. I also had the Ragnarok. Bought it with Yggdrasil about 8 months before the arrival of Glenn OTL. Love the pairing !!! They were my pride and joy..... until GOTL came and spoil the marriage. After 3 months comparing both Ragnarok and Glenn OTL, I just put Ragnarok to one side. GOTL then became my daily amp. It's the tone of the GOTL. Draws me like a bear to honey.

In the end, I sold off Ragnarok because I can't bare to see it sitting unused in the store room.


----------



## mordy (Sep 8, 2019)

Ho M0,
It is not difficult to find out what is the least expensive offering. Type in the designation and click on search:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Tungsram+PV+200/600&_sacat=0&rt=nc
Under Sort: on the top middle-right on the page, click on Lowest price + shipping in the drop down menu.
To find out what the market value is, go back to the first search page and scroll down on the left to: Sold items
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Tungsram PV 200/600&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1#item365250e60f
The only item that sold in the past 60 days was a tube with the same designation but with a different base (side contact instead of octal):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PV200-600-TUNGSRAM-Radio-Tube-Tube-NOS-NEW-NEW-/233309267471?hash=item365250e60f:g:XxkAAOSwTuJdTWbs&nma=true&si=oOxJ5OPcipUwY2%2FZgvcV5s7dwVA%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
It sold for less than $30 incl shipping, but not as desirable since it has a different base. Based on the above I don't know what the market value is, except that there is no or very little demand; hence possible to submit a low offer even if the seller does not offer this option.
By clicking on the individual item for sale you can see that the cheaper seller has 5 for sale, and the expensive seller has 47 for sale.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Good question - don't know anything about rectifiers, but by looking at the pictures of the tubes, the color of the the print on the tube and the look of the boxes - even the date code is almost the same!, I would venture that it is the same tube.
> x2 = June 1958 (Cheaper tube)
> y2 = August 1958 (More expensive tube)


 Thanks again Mordy. I will wait for @gibosi to give his official blessing before pulling the trigger.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks again Mordy. I will wait for @gibosi to give his official blessing before pulling the trigger.


Always a good idea - he has helped me a number of times - thanks!


----------



## nishan99

UntilThen said:


> Thanks for the live stream. I would have love to attend a RMAF event. Lots of interesting stuff there. Are you Ron in the video?



No , I am just a viewer like you who hopes one day will attend RMAF or Munich high-end


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> I am building a pentode OTL for Zach using two E130L per channel should put out 8  watts of OTL power.
> That should drive any of his headphones. He has all 3 of my amps already so why not one more.



Great project, looking forward to the developing details. A pentode OTL? It will be the first GOTZILLA!


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> This is another shot of the EL tubes when I was going through proof of concept with using these tubes. I'm very impressed with the sound even in this unorthodox setup in a OTL amp. I can imagine it being only a lot better in a properly built amp with these tubes, especially by you Glenn.
> 
> GOTL looks like Starship Enterprise.



Although... Maybe THIS was the first GOTZILLA.


----------



## mordy (Sep 8, 2019)

Found this E130L amp from Poland:





https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-Valve...200268?hash=item4b62fb8e0c:g:wXwAAOSwmWVaqYJ2




2 x 30W
But wait - no headphone jack?


----------



## rnros

Taisser Roots said:


> I was lucky enough to hear the Glenn at Canjam London.
> 
> For context I am friends with the UK ZMF distributor and kept visiting and listening on the system Throughout the day and probably racked up 30 minutes of listening time.
> The ZMF UK distributor used to bring his iha1 and I've heard that amp on chord, the bimby and yggy with a metal base gz34 and a tube which I don't quite remember the name of at this point in time.
> ...



Thanks, enjoyed reading your detailed comparative notes. Hope to hear the IHA-1 someday.
Very interested in the single stage to output transformer idea.
Glenn's EL3N amplifier has a single stage to transformer option. (Has a switch for single or two stage.)
That would be an interesting comparison, IHA-1 and the GEL3N in single stage mode. OTC vs OTC.

Haven't heard the IHA-1 yet, but I agree with some of your impressions of the GOTL.
However, think you have to spend some time with the GOTL to appreciate it's full performance range.
But, yes, that does require some tube rolling. Highly transparent and responsive to the chosen tubes.
Also agree that the DAC and headphones choices are important.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Although... Maybe THIS was the first GOTZILLA.



Well..... I was trying to re-create Mona Lisa. It's priceless now.


----------



## UntilThen

This had a pair of Siemens c3g added to it. I might list in on Sotheby's Auction.


----------



## UntilThen

I need to bring those adapters from Sydney. I wonder how Verite will sound with GOTZILLA,


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Well..... I was trying to re-create Mona Lisa. It's priceless now.



An artist is never understood in his own time.

But actually, it was the first(?) confirmed sighting of GOTL using paired pentodes replacing the twin triodes.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> This had a pair of Siemens c3g added to it. I might list in on Sotheby's Auction.



Ah! Layers beneath layers, just like Leonardo.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> An artist is never understood in his own time.
> 
> But actually, it was the first(?) confirmed sighting of GOTL using paired pentodes replacing the twin triodes.



You must give credit to Glenn. It was he who planted the seed of an idea in my head. He said that a pair of pentode such as the EL11 / 12 in single adapter into one of those slots will work but he doesn't know how that will sound. The rest is history.

I will now be remembered alongside Michelangelo, Leonardo and Donatello 50 years from now.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 8, 2019)

But I like this. It's GOTL masterpiece. This is Glenn's wonderful creation.

Actually with this combination, GOTL's ability to resolve micro and macro details is astonishing.


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 8, 2019)

For any GOTL owners considering the Verite Closed,take note. This is the winning combo. KenRad VT231,6pack of 6BX7s(im using GE as thats all I currently have) and GEC U18/20.
Other tubes Ive rolled in:

GEC 6AS7= too romantic in bass region.
HEXFRED=same story
Tung Sol 6SU7GTY=nearly as good as the Ken Rad,but lost some bass.
C3g= wider staging,but slight grainy sound,and some loss of bass.
Sittard GZ34= too romantic
GZ32= way too romantic


----------



## UntilThen

Ok Monster. Let's swap headphones. Your Verite Closed for my Verite Open. I need to hear it for myself.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Ok Monster. Let's swap headphones. Your Verite Closed for my Verite Open. I need to hear it for myself.


 Love to,but these dont belong to me quite yet.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> ....quite yet.



Uh oh.  It has taken him.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> For any GOTL owners considering the Verite Closed,take note. This is the winning combo. KenRad VT231,6pack of 6BX7s(im using GE as thats all I currently have) and GEC U18/20.
> Other tubes Ive rolled in:
> 
> GEC 6AS7= too romantic in bass region.
> ...


What are the footers under the GOTL?


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 8, 2019)

mordy said:


> What are the footers under the GOTL?


 home made vibration isolators for broke ass folks who spent too much cash on a DAC.

cut 2x4 wrapped in sorbathane. Plus it gives added verticality above my DAC. Lots of heat in that area.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> I use this amp to drive my two pairs of KEF LS50 killers - the Elac Debut:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


mordy - which amp is that??


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> mordy - which amp is that??


It is a Tandberg 3006A 150W/8 ohms amp from ca 1983.


----------



## mordy

Test your knowledge: Which British manufacturer made these tubes:




Is this RCA 6AS7G from 1940?




Date code 0-17


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks again Mordy. I will wait for @gibosi to give his official blessing before pulling the trigger.



Both these listings are valid. While the pictures aren't all that good, I can still see that both have the same construction as mine, which is dated April 1956. So I agree with Mordy. Go for the cheapest one.


----------



## gibosi (Sep 8, 2019)

mordy said:


> Test your knowledge: Which British manufacturer made these tubes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well the four on top were made in England, Russia perhaps. 

And it is most likely that the RCA was manufactured in 1950. From the mid-1930's until about 1941, RCA used a letter for the year, plus a number. For 1940 the letter is R. After about 1936, the number, from 1 to 6 appears to represent about 2 months. Prior to that time, the numbers appear to represent the number of tubes manufactured in 2-million unit increments.


----------



## mordy (Sep 8, 2019)

gibosi said:


> Well the four on top were made in England, Russia perhaps.
> 
> And it is most likely that the RCA was manufactured in 1950. From the mid-1930's until about 1941, RCA used a letter for the year, plus a number. For 1940 the letter is R. After about 1936, the number, from 1 to 6 appears to represent about 2 months. Prior to that time, the numbers appear to represent the number of tubes manufactured in 2-million unit increments.


The names of these dishonest sellers will be provided upon request.
The Made in England 6AS7 is just the Svetlana (inverted dual getter cups clearly seen on the right tube). 0-17 means 17th week 1950.
Re the RCA date code, a certain seller is fudging the dates, perhaps in the hope that older tubes justify the high prices he is asking.
According to Radiomuseum, the first mention of the 6AS7 was in 1945-46, so it could not have been manufactured in 1940.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Uh oh.  It has taken him.


Give this a try. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread.782754/page-871


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Give this a try.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread.782754/page-871



It was quite fun in those days. Hilarious. Forgot I posted that deer picture.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> The names of these dishonest sellers will be provided upon request.


 The dude with the Made in England Russian tubes has over 4000 feedback ratings w/ 100% postive feedback.
Wow!


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> The dude with the Made in England Russian tubes has over 4000 feedback ratings w/ 100% postive feedback.
> Wow!


Why don't you guys share here, to save the rest of us from spending top $ on crap?


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Why don't you guys share here, to save the rest of us from spending top $ on crap?


 I typed in AMC 6AS7G and got sent right to it,but his name is whip city tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> This had a pair of Siemens c3g added to it. I might list in on Sotheby's Auction.



Gentlemen, I want to explicitly state that I do not endorsed this. It is just an experiment to get a better idea of how the EL11 + EL12 spez sound like before I commit to a custom build from Glenn.

So no GOTZILLA for you.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Gentlemen, I want to explicitly state that I do not endorsed this. It is just an experiment to get a better idea of how the EL11 + EL12 spez sound like before I commit to a custom build from Glenn.
> 
> So no GOTZILLA for you.



Did this sound good??  I would think that the internal resistance of these tubes would be to high for a OTL to not have distortion.


----------



## 2359glenn

I Just got some NOS  GE 6SN7s for $2 each. Still good deals out there.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Did this sound good??  I would think that the internal resistance of these tubes would be to high for a OTL to not have distortion.



No not the sound I want to live with. It's a wall of sound with no coherence. EL11 and EL12 spez combination need to go in a custom amp which is what I want to get from you.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I Just got some NOS  GE 6SN7s for $2 each. Still good deals out there.



I have a GE 6SN7gtb given to me recently. Can tell it's very new. Sounds greats and no noise at all.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> It was quite fun in those days. Hilarious. Forgot I posted that deer picture.


Haha.

In a couple of days, we will inform you the upgraded pot will make huge difference in SQ. Stay tuned.


----------



## whirlwind

attmci said:


> Give this a try.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread.782754/page-871




Tube rolling gone off the rails!


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Haha.
> 
> In a couple of days, we will inform you the upgraded pot will make huge difference in SQ. Stay tuned.



No let it go. I've already said what needs to be said in Euforia's thread. What's past is past. It's over.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 9, 2019)

Did anyone noticed this troll posting all over Head-fi forum ?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/austin-meet-interest.908217/#post-15176506

He made 25 posts today all with the same message all over Head-Fi. Contacted Mod but no action yet.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Did anyone noticed this troll posting all over Head-fi forum ?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/austin-meet-interest.908217/#post-15176506
> 
> He made 25 posts today all with the same message all over Head-Fi. Contacted Mod but no action yet.



Well the link is broken, so somebody did something!


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 9, 2019)

Yup Mod must have just taken action. All the posts have been removed. It's extreme obscenity. If you have email alerts to those posts, do not click on those links.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> The dude with the Made in England Russian tubes has over 4000 feedback ratings w/ 100% postive feedback.
> Wow!


Unfortunately some of these sellers have perfect feedbacks on thousands of sales even though a google search reveals many complaints-never understood this.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Unfortunately some of these sellers have perfect feedbacks on thousands of sales even though a google search reveals many complaints-never understood this.



Probably because they with hold feed back for you...to ding you if you give them poor feedback.
I complained about this to Ebay since the start.  Once I pay the seller, my obligation to you is complete and you owe me (the buyer) automatic positive feedback,

If you screw me...you will definitely get poor feedback.

But that is not what happens....you pay...and seller WAITS until he/she gets positive feedback before he leaves your positive feedback.
If you ding him, he then dings you!

Long been a problem, that could easily be fixed in Ebay's software: IE:  Seller cannot collect the money from buyer without leaving positive feedback - that the buyer paid within the specified time frame.

Cheers...


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Probably because they with hold feed back for you...to ding you if you give them poor feedback.
> I complained about this to Ebay since the start.  Once I pay the seller, my obligation to you is complete and you owe me (the buyer) automatic positive feedback,
> 
> If you screw me...you will definitely get poor feedback.
> ...


I am not sure if I understand what you are saying. The following example is fictitious, but based on a real offering:
Seller advertises a pair of Chatham 6080 tubes for $180. The picture of the tubes show a pair of RCA 6080 that are worth $10 each (Only says CRC and not RCA on tubes). If somebody buys these tubes and then complains that they are misrepresented, the negative feedback does not show up.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I am not sure if I understand what you are saying. The following example is fictitious, but based on a real offering:
> Seller advertises a pair of Chatham 6080 tubes for $180. The picture of the tubes show a pair of RCA 6080 that are worth $10 each (Only says CRC and not RCA on tubes). If somebody buys these tubes and then complains that they are misrepresented, the negative feedback does not show up.



No...

Each transaction on Ebay...you both get to leave one another a feedback.

I buy the 400 tubes that are worth 40....the seller does NOT leave me feedback yet.

I leave scathing negative feedback for seller after trying to settle the dispute w/seller to no avail.

Seller sees it, then leaves a negative feedback for me.

I see the negative and complain to Ebay that I MET MY OBLIGATION to the seller by paying and trusted his description.
Takes DAYS and DAYS and gobs of my time to justify removal of my negative that was not deserved.

It's called "feedback extortion" and has been practiced at Ebay since day one.  The only way to avoid the seller giving you an undeserved negative is to wait until seconds before the feedback window closes and place your negative on the seller (who does not see if soon enough to ding you back).  This also takes more effort than is worth.

Feedback extortion has made the "feedback honesty" at Ebay...*not* work the way it was intended.


----------



## Phantaminum

@2359glenn You got a pm Glenn.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> I am not sure if I understand what you are saying. The following example is fictitious, but based on a real offering:
> Seller advertises a pair of Chatham 6080 tubes for $180. The picture of the tubes show a pair of RCA 6080 that are worth $10 each (Only says CRC and not RCA on tubes). If somebody buys these tubes and then complains that they are misrepresented, the negative feedback does not show up.



I’ll add to this with what I noticed of other sellers (especially Russian sellers) is you buy cheap tubes from them let’s say two for $25. You complain and it says that returns are accepted so you find that returning these tubes to Russia will cost you around $15-20. What’s the point in returning tubes then. So you can’t leave a negative mark because they can contest it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Xcalibur255 said:


> I can't remember if that was the pair I stabbed myself de-canning or not.  I sold a pair to somebody who was skittish about doing it themselves..... now I can't remember exactly who.


I re-attached the guide pins.  Though after they got hot the glue would become brittle and they'd just fall off......
I think it was probably musicman that I did this for.  I'm getting old and can't remember what I do anymore.....


----------



## leftside (Sep 9, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> No...
> 
> Each transaction on Ebay...you both get to leave one another a feedback.
> 
> ...


That was the policy from about 10 years ago. Today you can leave a seller negative feedback and they are not allowed to give the buyer negative feedback.

The reason why you hardly see negative feedback is because the buyer has gone through PayPal or eBay and complained and got a refund from the seller. I'd still be tempted to leave the seller a negative feedback just for making the experience a hassle for me if that happened.

I buy and sell on eBay. The buyers are more protected these days, but the sellers have become too exposed to abuses by the buyers. You have to factor this in if you are selling on eBay these days. I'd certainly consider adding tiny security stickers to any tubes I sold.
https://www.amazon.com/Security-hologram-warranty-stickers-holographic/dp/B07GSHWD6L


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 9, 2019)

leftside said:


> That was the policy from about 10 years ago. Today you can leave a seller negative feedback and they are not allowed to give the buyer negative feedback.
> 
> The reason why you hardly see negative feedback is because the buyer has gone through PayPal or eBay and complained and got a refund from the seller. I'd still be tempted to leave the seller a negative feedback just for making the experience a hassle for me if that happened.
> 
> ...



Good to hear that Ebay changed the Policy...and yes, I got burned on there selling a pair of Beyer headphones.  Buyer stated 3 months later that they "didn't work" and returned a broken pair he found in a thirft store...they STANK!!  Ebay allowed the return, I paid shipping both ways and refunded 100%.  Told Ebay if they could have smelled the returned HP, they would know what happened...

Like your security hologram stickers!!!  Might have saved me more then $100.00 and a bunch of aggravation!


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Good to hear that Ebay changed the Policy...and yes, I got burned on there selling a apair of headphones.  Buyer stated 3 months later that they "didn't work" and returned a broken pair he found in a thirft store...they STANK!!  Ebay allowed the return, I paid shipping both ways and refunded 100%.  Told Ebay if they could have smelled the returned HP, they would know what happened...
> 
> Like your security hologram stickers!!!  Might have saved me more then $100.00 and a bunch of aggravation!


 Wow that sucks! I always try to sell here,and only to well known members.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> This should be a great amp if it sounds good to me I will convert my 300B amp to EL12spez but will drive it with a L63/6J5.
> Can always use a adapter to use a EL3N driver already have this adapter for my OTL.
> Should be easy to get more then 10 watts with 425 volts on the plate.
> And the EL12spez uses the same output transformer as a 300B saving me money.



So I should consider this as an alternative to my KT150 idea?  I kind of like the idea of doing something new, but I suppose my idea is a bit less "adventurous" than what you guys are coming up with here.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I find it interesting that the GOTL keeps getting compared to the Inspire IHA-1.  Doesn't seem like a natural comparison since one is transformer output.

I will say that with the right tubes in it I can make my IHA-1 sound remarkably similar to my G45.  The consistent difference, when the 45 is having a good day anyway, is that the 45 has far better bass slam and control and serves up an additional layer of low level detail and texture that helps out instrument timbre.  I can get them to sound almost identical in terms of voicing through the right combination of tubes though.  The IHA-1 will throw a wider soundstage, though I consider both amps to be more on the intimate side in terms of staging.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Wow that sucks! I always try to sell here,and only to well known members.



Agree!  150%


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I find it interesting that the GOTL keeps getting compared to the Inspire IHA-1. Doesn't seem like a natural comparison since one is transformer output.



*A tale of 2 roosters.*

I find that amusing too. When I was growing up, my parents had a grey black rooster that looks like the Maharajah of roosters. He's just majestic looking. Soon the neighbours guys started to bring their fighting roosters and wanted to pit their fighting machine with our home grown pet. Anyway I'm reminiscing the past, something you do as you grow older. 

Our grey black rooster looks like this male in this picture.

 

This is a picture of a fighting rooster that the neighbour baddies brought. Look at those eagle claws !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> So I should consider this as an alternative to my KT150 idea? I kind of like the idea of doing something new, but I suppose my idea is a bit less "adventurous" than what you guys are coming up with here.



I think the EL11 and EL12 spez amp aka Berlin is going to be great and it's not that radical a combination. When Glenn latch onto an idea, I feel a lot more confident.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I think the EL11 and EL12 spez amp aka Berlin is going to be great and it's not that radical a combination. When Glenn latch onto an idea, I feel a lot more confident.



I am going to convert my 300B mono blocks to EL12spez. Was going to convert them to EL34 or KT88 maybe KT150 but thinking about this I bet the NOS EL12 will sound better.
And no more expensive then a NOS EL34 that I would want not new production.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I am going to convert my 300B mono blocks to EL12spez. Was going to convert them to EL34 or KT88 maybe KT150 but thinking about this I bet the NOS EL12 will sound better.
> And no more expensive then a NOS EL34 that I would want not new production.



Another plus is those EL12 spez stays cool after many hours of usage.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've never been a fan of tubes with anode caps on top and the wires you have to have running off them.  I know that's a terrible reason to not pursue a particular design, it's just an OCD thing with me.

If Glenn is going to convert is own amps to use EL12 before building either one of our amps then we will have the benefit of knowing how well they work and I can adjust plans accordingly.

Neither of these is what I *really* want to do but I have talked myself out of my dream build because it just isn't practical for the usage it will see most of the time.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 9, 2019)

I don’t like anode cap or wires myself but in this case I’ll make an exception.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I don’t like anode cap or wires myself but in case I’ll make an exception.



How much difference is there between a EL12 and a EL12spez??
Is the EL12spez just a older version with the cap?
The specs are about the same.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 9, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> How much difference is there between a EL12 and a EL12spez??
> Is the EL12spez just a older version with the cap?
> The specs are about the same.



To be honest I haven’t done an A/B to the nth degree between EL12 and EL12spez but the review-33 site forum members reckons the EL12 spez is the best.


----------



## UntilThen

It’s hard for me to test EL12 / EL12 spez in GOTL as power tubes because that won’t give me a true indication of these tubes ability. Besides I need 4 of each and I only have 2 x EL12 but I have 4 x EL12 spez.


----------



## UntilThen

To work in GOTL you need 4 of each for the power slots as strapped triodes.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn my other option is to have you build the amp to accept EL12, EL12N and EL12 spez in the power slots. That way I will have enough EL tubes to last 3 lifetime.


----------



## Zachik

Anyone has any experience (good or bad) with tubes eBay seller "marcushsumac0927" out of Taiwan?


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 9, 2019)

This Siemens amp use Telefunken EL12.

I think it’s a Sansui amp. 

https://images.app.goo.gl/4hSVTR58MFV6Nbdr8


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> This Siemens amp use Telefunken EL12.
> 
> I think it’s a Sansui amp.
> 
> https://images.app.goo.gl/4hSVTR58MFV6Nbdr8


It is my impression that the EL12 Spezial was used in amps for movie theaters.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> It is my impression that the EL12 Spezial was used in amps for movie theaters.



That is true but that doesn't mean it won't sound good in a tube amp. Go to the Elekit tu-8200 thread and you'll get very favourable impressions of EL12 spez in that amp. In fact, it's preferred over KT88 and 6L6G on that amp.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 10, 2019)

In fact if they are used in amps for movie theaters, it shows they have the power and must have pretty good lovely sounding distortions. That's right, tubes produce lovely distortions that we all love.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 10, 2019)

These tiny distortion producing midgets arrive today but my adapters are not with me !

JW 5755 or Western Electric 420A tubes. Such quality construction. Cost only $100.

Glenn, would these be better as drivers for the EL12 spez?   amplification is 70 !!! for these tiny midgets.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> If Glenn is going to convert is own amps to use EL12 before building either one of our amps then we will have the benefit of knowing how well they work and I can adjust plans accordingly.



I'm easy any which way. If Glenn wants to do his own proof of concept first, I'm all for it but if he needs me to be the guinea pig, I'm all for it too. This will be my last amp. I know, I know, yada, yada, yada, which literally translated means the end, the end, the end. 

Or if you put up your hand to be the guinea pig first, I'm all for it too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

EL's make the WORLD GO ROUND!  No EL39?


UntilThen said:


> In fact if they are used in amps for movie theaters, it shows they have the power and must have pretty good lovely sounding distortions. That's right, tubes produce lovely distortions that we all love.



Wow UT, your really getting hip to electronics!
Pretty soon you will know what a slew rates is and THD!

Scary!


----------



## UntilThen

All I know is lovely distortions. I don't care about slew rates, THD, high fidelity, out of this world experience.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> In fact if they are used in amps for movie theaters, it shows they have the power and must have pretty good lovely sounding distortions. That's right, tubes produce lovely distortions that we all love.


That’s what I meant - very powerful tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Takes whopper loads of power to move the little cones in headphones.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> All I know is lovely distortions. I don't care about slew rates, THD, high fidelity, out of this world experience.


Yup - I second that!  When I taste wine - either I like it or not. Do not care for "earthy / hint of <fill the blank> / blah blah". It is either pleasing to me or it is not.  
Same with amps / headphones. Either I like the sound or I do not


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Takes whopper loads of power to move the little cones in headphones.



And your point is? That the Glenn 300b amp is a mistake? Don't forget leftside and many others consider this to be their best headphone amps at least with LCD-3 and LCD-4. Power is good if implemented right.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> I'm easy any which way. If Glenn wants to do his own proof of concept first, I'm all for it but if he needs me to be the guinea pig, I'm all for it too. This will be my last amp. I know, I know, yada, yada, yada, which literally translated means the end, the end, the end.
> 
> Or if you put up your hand to be the guinea pig first, I'm all for it too.



There is no such thing as a 'last amp' my friend.  We tell ourselves that but that's not what happens.

I've been in the build queue since February (and the initial discussion was actually this time last year) and I have no idea how many people are in front of me still, but I wouldn't mind seeing this EL12 build happen first so I can see how it turns out.  If it will do 10 watts per channel and sounds really good then my curiosity is piqued.


----------



## Xcalibur255

JazzVinyl said:


> Takes whopper loads of power to move the little cones in headphones.



This is why I went with the 45, but my amp struggles severely with high impedance headphones so perhaps the power mongers are on to something.......


----------



## Monsterzero

My 4v>5v rectifier adapter bit the dust today,so for the time being I cant use my GEC U18/20.  That tube rocks.
So I rolled in my GZ34,and replaced the Ken Rad VT231 with a GEC B36. Sounds good with the VC,a bit more romantic sounding,better mid range creamyness,but less bass extension and slam.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> There is no such thing as a 'last amp' my friend.  We tell ourselves that but that's not what happens.
> 
> I've been in the build queue since February (and the initial discussion was actually this time last year) and I have no idea how many people are in front of me still, but I wouldn't mind seeing this EL12 build happen first so I can see how it turns out.  If it will do 10 watts per channel and sounds really good then my curiosity is piqued.



There will be a last amp. At least for me. Far too many amps whether ss or tube amps have come through my door. Everything will come to an end eventually. 

I have never crave for a very powerful headphone amp. 3 watts would have been too much for me. I'll only be using it for headphones. When Glenn said those EL12 spez in strapped triode mode will produce 10 watts, I was really taken aback. But El12 spez have been experimented in at least 2 amps that I know of and those who experimented with it, have reported that it sounded very good. One of them is from the Elekit TU-8200 thread.

Glenn 300b amp produce 8 watts and it's love by almost all those who have it with their headphones. So power mongers I'm not but if it's there and it sounds good, why not.

As for the queue, I understand completely. As people become aware of Glenn's amps, the queue will get longer and longer. I just hope Glenn managed to find time for himself to relax. He shouldn't have to be building amps every night after a full day's work. So I'm not in a hurry for the next amp and I wouldn't want to disrupt the queue. I will leave it to Glenn and that's how it should be.


----------



## whirlwind

Deyan's adapters have arrived and I am glad to report that they work just fine.

Going to listen to a couple of Mike Zitto albums with the LCD-3


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Deyan's adapters have arrived and I am glad to report that they work just fine.
> 
> Going to listen to a couple of Mike Zitto albums with the LCD-3



Woah! How does the EL34 sound compared to the EL3N?


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Deyan's adapters have arrived and I am glad to report that they work just fine.
> 
> Going to listen to a couple of Mike Zitto albums with the LCD-3



That’s exciting.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Would the EL34 put out more power than the EL3N?


----------



## Xcalibur255

We really are kind of on the cutting edge with this stuff.  If you google EL12 you get a handful of non-english pages that don't appear to be forum or discussion content, and you get your guys' head-fi thread on testing these in the Elise and the Elekit.  That's pretty much it.  I was *very* surprised that nothing showed up on diyaudio.com for these tubes.  If those guys aren't building with them then this is very rare air we're breathing.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Sound Trooper said:


> Would the EL34 put out more power than the EL3N?


Maybe a little more, but 250 plate volts is on the low side in terms of bias for an EL34 I would think.  Most people run them much harder than that, and the best case scenario when triode strapped is about 5 watts or so unless you really run the crap out of the tube.  At 250V I think 2-3 watts sounds like a fair guess, but keep in mind I'm an amateur taking his best guess here.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> We really are kind of on the cutting edge with this stuff.  If you google EL12 you get a handful of non-english pages that don't appear to be forum or discussion content, and you get your guys' head-fi thread on testing these in the Elise and the Elekit.  That's pretty much it.  I was *very* surprised that nothing showed up on diyaudio.com for these tubes.  If those guys aren't building with them then this is very rare air we're breathing.



Yup pretty much a greenfield project for us. It will be fun.


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> Maybe a little more, but 250 plate volts is on the low side in terms of bias for an EL34 I would think.  Most people run them much harder than that, and the best case scenario when triode strapped is about 5 watts or so unless you really run the crap out of the tube.  At 250V I think 2-3 watts sounds like a fair guess, but keep in mind I'm an amateur taking his best guess here.


@2359glenn would a EL3N/EL34 switch be feasible to take advantage of each different power tube?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've asked this question a few times myself so I'd be curious to know as well.  I think it's more difficult to change voltage than current in this situation, but I don't know that for certain.  It would be great to know more about it.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 10, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I just hope Glenn managed to find time for himself to relax. He shouldn't have to be building amps every night after a full day's work. So I'm not in a hurry for the next amp and I wouldn't want to disrupt the queue. I will leave it to Glenn and that's how it should be.



This has been my worry as well.  I think my intention may have been misunderstood.  I'm not complaining about the wait.  Trust me I'm the last person who would complain about such a thing.  I've known Glenn a long time and know how much we ask of him to build these amps.  It's generosity on a level that some of the recipients of these wonderful amps may never fully know.

I guess the thought that was going through my head was that I'm uncertain if your project with Glenn predates mine or not, and if it doesn't I wouldn't mind letting you move ahead of me in the queue.  Re-reading what I posted I'm not even certain why I mentioned the dates but that's what I ended up typing while trying to express that thought.  I'm very curious about what a 6J5 >>> EL12 amp would sound like now that the idea is out there.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> My 4v>5v rectifier adapter bit the dust today,so for the time being I cant use my GEC U18/20.  That tube rocks.
> So I rolled in my GZ34,and replaced the Ken Rad VT231 with a GEC B36. Sounds good with the VC,a bit more romantic sounding,better mid range creamyness,but less bass extension and slam.



Get Deyan to make a U18/20 to 3DG4 adapter it will run the tube on internal power in the Amp no screaming hot resistors in the adapter to burn out.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Get Deyan to make a U18/20 to 3DG4 adapter it will run the tube on internal power in the Amp no screaming hot resistors in the adapter to burn out.


 Yup,Ive already been in contact with him. The adapter that failed on me today was one of Deyan's adapters.  The top came apart from the base. It very well could still work,but im not prone to take any chances with my amp,nor tube.
Im paying for a new one,and he mentioned a "new design".


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Yup,Ive already been in contact with him. The adapter that failed on me today was one of Deyan's adapters.  The top came apart from the base. It very well could still work,but im not prone to take any chances with my amp,nor tube.
> Im paying for a new one,and he mentioned a "new design".



I've had the top come loose from the base on several of Deyan's adapters. And I simply use super glue to make them good as new.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> I've had the top come loose from the base on several of Deyan's adapters. And I simply use super glue to make them good as new.


I kinda had to give the tube a solid yank to get it out of the loose top, as rolling it caused the break to begin with. I'm thinking that some wires were pulled in the process.
I'd rather not risk it, and just get a new and hopefully more sturdy adapter


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> This has been my worry as well.  I think my intention may have been misunderstood.  I'm not complaining about the wait.  Trust me I'm the last person who would complain about such a thing.  I've known Glenn a long time and know how much we ask of him to build these amps.  It's generosity on a level that some of the recipients of these wonderful amps may never fully know.
> 
> I guess the thought that was going through my head was that I'm uncertain if your project with Glenn predates mine or not, and if it doesn't I wouldn't mind letting you move ahead of me in the queue.  Re-reading what I posted I'm not even certain why I mentioned the dates but that's what I ended up typing while trying to express that thought.  I'm very curious about what a 6J5 >>> EL12 amp would sound like now that the idea is out there.



Thanks mate. Never doubted your intentions for a minute. You are one of the most considerate person I’ve known and very helpful too.

So we’re clear then. Will see Glenn’s timeline on how this will fit in at his convenience.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> I kinda had to give the tube a solid yank to get it out of the loose top, as rolling it caused the break to begin with. I'm thinking that some wires were pulled in the process.
> I'd rather not risk it, and just get a new and hopefully more sturdy adapter



I have found that the thickness of the pins of these 4-pin rectifiers varies considerably from maker to maker. And therefore, in the future, I would encourage you to not vigorously push the tube all the way into the adapter. Stop when it is snug. And if there is a gap between the bottom of the base and the top of the adapter, don't worry about it. It won't hurt a thing. Otherwise, as you have discovered, you risk breaking the adapter.

For example, below, the diameter of the pins on these tubes are slightly different, so I push each of them in only until snug.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> @2359glenn would a EL3N/EL34 switch be feasible to take advantage of each different power tube?



Not really each tube needs a different impedance output transformer.
Two EL3N will = one EL34 impedance.
So the amp can be built for two EL3N , EL11 or one EL34


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> This has been my worry as well.  I think my intention may have been misunderstood.  I'm not complaining about the wait.  Trust me I'm the last person who would complain about such a thing.  I've known Glenn a long time and know how much we ask of him to build these amps.  It's generosity on a level that some of the recipients of these wonderful amps may never fully know.
> 
> I guess the thought that was going through my head was that I'm uncertain if your project with Glenn predates mine or not, and if it doesn't I wouldn't mind letting you move ahead of me in the queue.  Re-reading what I posted I'm not even certain why I mentioned the dates but that's what I ended up typing while trying to express that thought.  I'm very curious about what a 6J5 >>> EL12 amp would sound like now that the idea is out there.



If the amp is made for a 6J5 it can run a EL3N or EL11 with adapters. I hate the way adapters look but if it is a must adapters can be easily made to go in a octal socket.
I use the L63/6J5 and have a EL3N adapter when I want a mellower sound on certain phones.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 10, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> If the amp is made for a 6J5 it can run a EL3N or EL11 with adapters. I hate the way adapters look but if it is a must adapters can be easily made to go in a octal socket.
> I use the L63/6J5 and have a EL3N adapter when I want a mellower sound on certain phones.



At this point I don't really know what I want to be honest.  I have never heard any of these tubes before, EL3N, EL11, EL12 so I don't know if this is the sound I'm looking for.  @UntilThen has so much enthusiasm for them that it's easy to become interested.    If not for his posts I would still be locked in to do 6SN7 >>>> KT150.

Heck for pure "wow" factor I think using a 10Y to drive the EL12 sounds really cool.  There are so many ways to do an amp like this that I get overwhelmed and second guess myself.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> At this point I don't really know what I want to be honest.  I have never heard any of these tubes before, EL3N, EL11, EL12 so I don't know if this is the sound I'm looking for.  @UntilThen has so much enthusiasm for them that it's easy to become interested.    If not for his posts I would still be locked in to do 6SN7 >>>> KT150.
> 
> Heck for pure "wow" factor I think using a 10Y to drive the EL12 sounds really cool.  There are so many ways to do an amp like this that I get overwhelmed and second guess myself.



I was deciding between a 300b or EL11 / EL12 spez.

The decision is pretty easy. I already have enough EL tubes to last 2 lifetime. Also somehow I have a good feeling about this build.

The other consideration is the high cost of 300b tubes.

So yeah I’m more than enthusiastic.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 10, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I was deciding between a 300b or EL11 / EL12 spez.
> 
> The decision is pretty easy. I already have enough EL tubes to last 2 lifetime. Also somehow I have a good feeling about this build.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I've been pulled in a couple of directions myself.  My dream build is to use the Emission Labs 20B in an OTA (one tube amplifier) design.  It would probably require a very good 1:2 or 1:4 input transformer to get enough gain, but the 20B would be the only gain stage.  Set it up for both speakers and headphones with a switch.  It would be good for somewhere between 4-6 watts depending on bias choices.

I decided I really can't do it for two reasons:  the way I use my amps, and lack of information on how this kind of design works with various loads and impedances.  I tend to have my amps on in the evening while on the computer for trivial things.  Often I'll have something playing in the background just so I don't feel alone in the room.  They spend far more time this way than they do for actual critical music listening.  I started to ask myself "do I REALLY want to own an amp that takes tubes costing almost $700 a pair when most of the operating hours are basically throwaway hours?" and decided that the answer needed to be "no" regardless of how interested I was in it.  That, and I know little about how OTA designs sound.  Maybe they are too melllow dynamically, or picky about the load they are driving..... just too many qeustions up in the air to take a chance on given how expensive the build would be.

Having said all that........... I still wish I could do it.  *sigh*  My KT150 idea feels like the cowards way out, but this EL12 design kind of feels like something halfway in-between and might be what I've been looking for.  Might.  I really don't know.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 11, 2019)

The excitement for the EL12 Spez lately is well placed. (Inspired by other's discovery) I've used my pair of NOS Telefunken EL12 Spez in many combos on Elise and Euforia amps over the past 2 years usually as powers but they also excelled as drivers too. Many times I've proclaimed it as flagship status on the F.A. threads, even above the GEC 6AS7G in terms of dynamics mainly, but only a small handful of people took me seriously and tried it as well. Those who did were unanimously impressed with it as a very top contender. To me it has an uncanny knack of reproducing liquid, clean / clear sounds throughout the spectrum, especially the sweetness of the mids and highs which are also ultra smooth. The bass definition as well as dynamics are almost unbeatable - very controlled, robust and hard hitting. A minor trademark though which may / not be considered as a caveat is that it's moderately on the bright side of the spectrum. A liquid smooth, sweet sound that while not generally fatiguing is also _somewhat_ focused on the highs and is by no means dark.

For me however I stop short of calling these the best ever because to me they seemed perhaps equal to the EL38 (in terms of pure performance, however with a very different sound signature), and yet are totally outclassed by the EL39's, which to me completely obsoleted everything that came before them (even MANY holy Gail 6080 / 6AS7G flagships and the entire EL series below EL38 including 'normal' EL12) and were even more organic / natural in both tone and visceral impact, larger soundstage, and bass that's fuller, even more natural sounding along with improved handling of complexity.

The above was the way I heard it on my F.A. amps that it was not configured for with adapters, so of course YMMV greatly if used with a Glenn OTC amp properly biased / configured for them. Either the above signatures will just be heightened or it could even be the Spez could rise to the top.

For me though I should be more than happy with my 2-4x EL39 all in perfect shape (I have 2x and 2x on the way) with adapters on my upcoming Glenn EL amp, so long as they pair well. Unfortunately they are super rare and hard to come by any more, and require a specific adapter only for EL39.


----------



## DecentLevi

I read that the KT77's are supposed to be even better sounding than EL34, both being similar in appearance but the 77's being specifically designed for audiophile purposes. To me that makes EL34 seem a bit unnecessary so maybe I will just get a few KT77 and and KT66 being that the 66's are ST / curved which interest me and skip the EL34. Especially when I have my first GEC KT66 on the way, not to mention 4x EL39.

Also does anyone happen to know if Glenn's OTC tube amps already come with a rectifier tube, and if it's the most recommended type?


----------



## Monsterzero

DecentLevi said:


> I read that the KT77's are supposed to be even better sounding than EL34,


 Not that its an indication as to how they will sound in an amp,but I bought a pair of Red Lion KT77s to replace the Siemens EL34s that came with my DAC.
The improvement was more than subtle.


----------



## UntilThen

Seriously DL, get the facts straight. You weren’t the pioneer of using EL11 and EL12 spez in Euforia. @hypnos1 was the pioneer and credit goes to him. 2nd to trial those tubes was @HOWIE13.


----------



## DecentLevi

I didn't mean for it to be intrepreted as me being the pioneer. I'm saying I was one of the few who tried it the EL12 Spez, and at least in more recent times people weren't listening to me saying I felt it was still superior to other new flavor of the day tubes.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 11, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Yeah, I've been pulled in a couple of directions myself.  My dream build is to use the Emission Labs 20B in an OTA (one tube amplifier) design.  It would probably require a very good 1:2 or 1:4 input transformer to get enough gain, but the 20B would be the only gain stage.  Set it up for both speakers and headphones with a switch.  It would be good for somewhere between 4-6 watts depending on bias choices.
> 
> I decided I really can't do it for two reasons:  the way I use my amps, and lack of information on how this kind of design works with various loads and impedances.  I tend to have my amps on in the evening while on the computer for trivial things.  Often I'll have something playing in the background just so I don't feel alone in the room.  They spend far more time this way than they do for actual critical music listening.  I started to ask myself "do I REALLY want to own an amp that takes tubes costing almost $700 a pair when most of the operating hours are basically throwaway hours?" and decided that the answer needed to be "no" regardless of how interested I was in it.  That, and I know little about how OTA designs sound.  Maybe they are too melllow dynamically, or picky about the load they are driving..... just too many qeustions up in the air to take a chance on given how expensive the build would be.
> 
> Having said all that........... I still wish I could do it.  *sigh*  My KT150 idea feels like the cowards way out, but this EL12 design kind of feels like something halfway in-between and might be what I've been looking for.  Might.  I really don't know.



Were you going to drive speakers and headphones when you consider KT150 ? That's a powerful tube. Was going to buy 8 of those for my Primaluna but then decided I didn't want to keep the PL.

I had heard EL11 with EL12 spez in my previous Euforia amp as strapped triodes. It was easier in Euforia because you can just use 2 x EL11 and 2 x EL12 spez. Sound pretty good. I was impressed with that combination. Very clear tone with an engaging mid. Bass is solid. It's hard not to be impressed. However I didn't continue to use the tubes for long because there's hum. I just didn't think Euforia was build to run those tubes. To get an idea how those tubes sound yes but I wouldn't live with that setup in Euforia. Which brings me to the present day. Having Glenn build the amp to use these tubes is the way to go. He will get the operating points right and customised it to run the EL12 spez optimally.

The new amp will be transformer coupled using Lundahl transformers. Very impressed with Studio Six which is also transformer coupled.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Woah! How does the EL34 sound compared to the EL3N?



I listened for about 4 hours last night...the tubes run as cool as the EL3N tubes.  After 4 hours you can touch both EL3N tubes and EL34 tubes, you can put two fingers on top of the tubes for ten seconds...no problem.
Don't try that with your rectifier tube, lol.

They sound very nice indeed, just as i figured a nice set would. Thing is that they cost about 5 times more than an EL3N tube.
That being said on Calvin Russel's album This Is My Life, The Story Of Calvin Russel the acoustics on this album are just phenomenal.
I am trying to get some hours logged on these and have only listened to LCD-3 so far.





Xcalibur255 said:


> Maybe a little more, but 250 plate volts is on the low side in terms of bias for an EL34 I would think.  Most people run them much harder than that, and the best case scenario when triode strapped is about 5 watts or so unless you really run the crap out of the tube.  At 250V I think 2-3 watts sounds like a fair guess, but keep in mind I'm an amateur taking his best guess here.




I agree, these tubes can be pushed much further than the 250 plate volts that my amp gives them. Even at that, these tubes sound very, very good...just a bit pricey.
I got a low current draw set as i told the seller that my amp would only give them 250 plate volts.

The good thing is, like the EL3N tubes...they could live a long happy life because they are not being run hard.


----------



## UntilThen

How about the KT63 Joe?


----------



## whirlwind

I have not tried the KT63 yet Matt. I am trying to get some hours on these tubes, and run them through a bunch of albums that I listen to a lot.
I have not even tried them in one tube mode yet, other than just a brief switch.  Also I have only paired them with one rectifier tube.

They are quiet and don't seem to take long to settle in.


----------



## UntilThen

No worries take your time. Good to know that the EL34 are quiet in your amp. That is a good sign.


----------



## UntilThen

The only time I heard EL34 was in the Blue Hawaii with Stax SR-009.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 11, 2019)

gibosi said:


> I have found that the thickness of the pins of these 4-pin rectifiers varies considerably from maker to maker. And therefore, in the future, I would encourage you to not vigorously push the tube all the way into the adapter. Stop when it is snug. And if there is a gap between the bottom of the base and the top of the adapter, don't worry about it. It won't hurt a thing. Otherwise, as you have discovered, you risk breaking the adapter.
> 
> For example, below, the diameter of the pins on these tubes are slightly different, so I push each of them in only until snug.




Deyan's adapters for the EL3N to EL34 tubes, the pins fit nice and snug, I like that.
I really don't want to be popping tubes in and out of them and and kill the nice contact.

Once I settle in on four or five sets of tubes that I like, I may have Deyan make me some more adapters and just leave the tubes in the adapters.
That way all I have to do is drop the adapter in the yamamoto sockets and be done...no yanking of tubes from adapters.
Like you do with the 6BX7/6BL7...just leave the tubes in the adapters.

These adapters are small and the tubes will still fit in the tube box with the adapters installed.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> The only time I heard EL34 was in the Blue Hawaii with Stax SR-009.



The EL34 tubes have intrigued me for quite some time.

I don't know a whole lot about them, the seller that I got mine from seemed pretty well educated and said he has pretty much tried them all.
Like Glenn he said the newer tubes...late XF3's and XF4 tubes do not sound as good. The tubes with the welded plates are suppose to be a step up.

The seller did tell me that some of the Japanese EL34 get pretty close to the better tubes sound. I can not confirm this as I do not own any, but you can get a pair for cheaper.


----------



## UntilThen

EL34 are much love by audio enthusiasts. Many prefer the sound of EL34 over KT88 on the PL. Enjoy it Joe. Yes the good EL34 are the XF2. I won't be going down the path of EL34. Mine (whenever it does eventuate) will use strictly EL11 and EL12 spez.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> The EL34 tubes have intrigued me for quite some time.
> 
> I don't know a whole lot about them, the seller that I got mine from seemed pretty well educated and said he has pretty much tried them all.
> Like Glenn he said the newer tubes...late XF3's and XF4 tubes do not sound as good. The tubes with the welded plates are suppose to be a step up.
> ...



A few months ago when I was hunting Toshiba 6BX7 on Japanese auction, I came across some packaged with a pair of Toshiba 6GB8, a near EL34 equivalent (requires an adapter).  I was desperate to complete my set and nearly bought the package, I had planned to offer the 6GB8 to someone here.  I now wish I had, too bad I could not see the future!


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Deyan's adapters for the EL3N to EL34 tubes, the pins fit nice and snug, I like that.
> I really don't want to be popping tubes in and out of them and and kill the nice contact.
> 
> Once I settle in on four or five sets of tubes that I like, I may have Deyan make me some more adapters and just leave the tubes in the adapters.
> ...



And this is my practice with 4-volt rectifiers as well. As I have over 50 of these rectifiers, I decided to purchase extra adapters. So for example, since the GEC U18/20 spends a lot of time in my amp, it has its own adapter. No yanking.


----------



## hypnos1 (Sep 11, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Seriously DL, get the facts straight. You weren’t the pioneer of using EL11 and EL12 spez in Euforia. @hypnos1 was the pioneer and credit goes to him. 2nd to trial those tubes was @HOWIE13.



Hi UT.

It will certainly be good to see how your EL11/12 Spez sounds when properly configured for in Glenn's amp, along with a very nice output transformer. If I lived in the USA, I would be very tempted indeed to pester him for a similar animal...but with the EL39 as power tubes (if their performance in my non configured for amp is anything to go by). Trouble is, it's very rare...(ps. a fellow member found this tube - 4 of them in his power amp, and in his own system - even outperformed the legendary EL34).

But the EL12 Spez is still an excellent tube...(your hum in Euforia would have been down to the adapter I'm afraid, as my own converted tubes were dead silent lol!). And just to clarify DL's recent statement on this tube, it was in fact pretty universally adopted early on by (interested) folks, finding it - like myself - to outperform the EL12/EL12N. And for most, remained the power tube of choice until I stumbled upon the EL38, then the EL39 (with a brief period of the EL32 displaying its own qualities).

Re. adapters coming loose, I personally have always found that 2-part epoxy resin is far more reliable than 'superglue'...unless it needs to run more easily! The latter is invaluable for securing the top cap connector of a tube to the glass, if present, and also the base...even if already tight. An insurance policy _well_ worth the (short) time and effort...


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Not really each tube needs a different impedance output transformer.
> Two EL3N will = one EL34 impedance.
> So the amp can be built for two EL3N , EL11 or one EL34


How about an amp built around the 6L6 with a switch for 6L6/KT66/EL34/KT77? Yes, the rare early tubes made by the "usual suspects" are expensive, but these tubes are very popular and are still being made today. Some of the new production varieties are meant to be very good.

If anyone is interested in these tubes, the sound differences are subjective. Just Google 6L6 vs KT66, KT66 vs EL34, etc. And of course the more popular brands such as Mullard and GEC had many variations made in many different factories.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> And this is my practice with 4-volt rectifiers as well. As I have over 50 of these rectifiers, I decided to purchase extra adapters. So for example, since the GEC U18/20 spends a lot of time in my amp, it has its own adapter. No yanking.


 Yeah I learned the hard way. Ironically it was the first time I tried to remove it,and was only doing so to check the pins for grime.
In the interim,the GZ34 has taken its spot,but I am missing my U18/20 dearly.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Were you going to drive speakers and headphones when you consider KT150 ? That's a powerful tube. Was going to buy 8 of those for my Primaluna but then decided I didn't want to keep the PL.
> 
> I had heard EL11 with EL12 spez in my previous Euforia amp as strapped triodes. It was easier in Euforia because you can just use 2 x EL11 and 2 x EL12 spez. Sound pretty good. I was impressed with that combination. Very clear tone with an engaging mid. Bass is solid. It's hard not to be impressed. However I didn't continue to use the tubes for long because there's hum. I just didn't think Euforia was build to run those tubes. To get an idea how those tubes sound yes but I wouldn't live with that setup in Euforia. Which brings me to the present day. Having Glenn build the amp to use these tubes is the way to go. He will get the operating points right and customised it to run the EL12 spez optimally.
> 
> The new amp will be transformer coupled using Lundahl transformers. Very impressed with Studio Six which is also transformer coupled.



If the KT150 came to be it would probably be speaker only.  I intended for it to be single-ended and triode strapped.  Poor man's 300B was kind of the concept.  A number of people say this tube sounds good this way and that this was one of the intended uses when it was designed.

What gives me pause about the EL12 is people describing them as bright.  I generally prefer to stay away from bright.  But, I also wonder if the source of this might be non-optimized biasing running them in the FA amps.  The 5998 is a prefect example of this, it also has a reputation for being on the bright side because it is plate current starved operating under 6AS7 conditions.  Dump a little more power into it and that lean sound goes away and is replaced by a very balanced and full-bodied tone.  If the EL12 similarly "fattens up" when pushed harder then it would probably be a safer bet for me.


----------



## attmci (Sep 11, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah I learned the hard way. Ironically it was the first time I tried to remove it,and was only doing so to check the pins for grime.
> In the interim,the GZ34 has taken its spot,but I am missing my U18/20 dearly.


?


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> The 5998 is a prefect example of this, it also has a reputation for being on the bright side because it is plate current starved operating under 6AS7 conditions.  Dump a little more power into it and that lean sound goes away and is replaced by a very balanced and full-bodied tone.  If the EL12 similarly "fattens up" when pushed harder then it would probably be a safer bet for me.


That's why a 6AS7/5998 switch is appropriate.


----------



## attmci (Sep 11, 2019)

.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Yep.  My 2011 model Glenn OTL has one.  It was the first of the glenn amps to have it.  Not nearly that fancy looking but it's the result that counts.  A shame there has been so much bad luck with 5998 tubes blowing up headphones, because this is still very much worth doing IMO.

That meter should be showing DC current, not volts.  Not sure what that designer was thinking there.  The plate voltage is the same for both of those tubes, it's the current that gets increased.


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> Yep.  My 2011 model Glenn OTL has one.  It was the first of the glenn amps to have it.  Not nearly that fancy looking but it's the result that counts.  A shame there has been so much bad luck with 5998 tubes blowing up headphones, because this is still very much worth doing IMO.
> 
> That meter should be showing DC current, not volts.  Not sure what that designer was thinking there.  The plate voltage is the same for both of those tubes, it's the current that gets increased.


Do you mean like this? Amp is still a work in progress, so might make sense to swap the meters around. I'll PM you.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> If the KT150 came to be it would probably be speaker only.  I intended for it to be single-ended and triode strapped.  Poor man's 300B was kind of the concept.  A number of people say this tube sounds good this way and that this was one of the intended uses when it was designed.
> 
> What gives me pause about the EL12 is people describing them as bright.  I generally prefer to stay away from bright.  But, I also wonder if the source of this might be non-optimized biasing running them in the FA amps.  The 5998 is a prefect example of this, it also has a reputation for being on the bright side because it is plate current starved operating under 6AS7 conditions.  Dump a little more power into it and that lean sound goes away and is replaced by a very balanced and full-bodied tone.  If the EL12 similarly "fattens up" when pushed harder then it would probably be a safer bet for me.



Since my GOTL was bought secondhand, it lacks the 5998 switch.  Had I waited my turn in the queue, it would have been included.  I wish I wasn't curious how it would affect the sound of my 5998s and 421As.

Don't temp me, Frodo...


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Since my GOTL was bought secondhand, it lacks the 5998 switch.  Had I waited my turn in the queue, it would have been included.  I wish I wasn't curious how it would affect the sound of my 5998s and 421As.
> 
> Don't temp me, Frodo...


 Ive been told by others earlier in this thread that they couldnt hear much of a difference with the switch engaged.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Ive been told by others earlier in this thread that they couldnt hear much of a difference with the switch engaged.



Good to know.  Unless I hear otherwise, I am sticking with this take.  The thought of sending away my GOTL is too much to bear.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 11, 2019)

leftside said:


> Do you mean like this? Amp is still a work in progress, so might make sense to swap the meters around. I'll PM you.



Yep, this meter would be more useful to use with the bias switch.

Not to say that the voltage meter would be useless.  If you are using tube rectifiers it would be a neat way to see how much B+ drop you are getting from various types of tubes as you roll them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Monsterzero said:


> Ive been told by others earlier in this thread that they couldnt hear much of a difference with the switch engaged.


I respect those people's opinion.  They have their own set of ears.  It makes a substantial difference to my ears and alters the overall character of the tube IMO.

I do think I'm probably in the minority on this one.


----------



## Monsterzero

Xcalibur255 said:


> I respect those people's opinion.  They have their own set of ears.  It makes a substantial difference to my ears and alters the overall character of the tube IMO.
> 
> I do think I'm probably in the minority on this one.


I dont have the switch,so I cant comment on the topic,other than to repeat what others have mentioned. I thought about getting the switch when I was finalizing my build,but then I looked at the prices of 5998s and thought to myself that theres no way im paying that kind of cash for tubes. A pair of GEC6as7g and a pair of 5998s later...My naivety at the time is adorable.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT.
> 
> It will certainly be good to see how your EL11/12 Spez sounds when properly configured for in Glenn's amp, along with a very nice output transformer. If I lived in the USA, I would be very tempted indeed to pester him for a similar animal...but with the EL39 as power tubes (if their performance in my non configured for amp is anything to go by). Trouble is, it's very rare...(ps. a fellow member found this tube - 4 of them in his power amp, and in his own system - even outperformed the legendary EL34).
> 
> ...



Hi H1,

A pleasure as always to have a conversation with you. I wasn't petty when I call out DL. I just wanted to set the record straight. You were the first to adopt the EL12 spez and letting everyone know how good it sound. I think then it was @HOWIE13 that tried it next. Not long after my adapters arrived and I heard it for myself. DL came much much later.

Re the hum, you're probably right. I think it's not just the adapters but even the NOS pair of Telekunfen EL11 that had a bit of noise in one of the tube. I found that with these NOS EL tubes, it's pretty much pot luck. You could get bad ones even NOS. So I've invested in quite a lot of these tubes in the hope that if I buy 12, I'll have at least 6 that are perfect. And I was right. I have 6 that are perfect now. 

In deciding which tubes to use for a customised amp, the important criteria are:- 

. sounds good
. looks good
. availability

EL11 and EL12 spez fulfil those criteria. Thanks for affirming the EL12 spez is an excellent tube. Even though I'm not fond of top anode cap and wires, I'm willing to overlook that.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I respect those people's opinion.  They have their own set of ears.  It makes a substantial difference to my ears and alters the overall character of the tube IMO.
> 
> I do think I'm probably in the minority on this one.



Initially I thought the difference was negligible as to be insignificant. Over a period of time, when I have more time to experiment with the switch on 5998, there is a noticeable difference indeed. I'm glad I went with the switch which cost me $100 extra.

In fact I've been running Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp and Tung Sol 5998 for several days with the switch off ....... now I just turn the switch and I can tell the difference straight away. Those who can't hear a difference should try this.  Listen to it for several days without the switch, then turn the switch on.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> What gives me pause about the EL12 is people describing them as bright.



Interesting that you brought this up. In the review-33 site, several members also remark about the EL12 being bright but a seasoned member with experience with this tube and in the Klangfilm amp, pointed out that was not his experience. He mentioned that EL12 properly configured does not sound bright but rather exhibit a lovely natural sounding tone that is very enjoyable.

There's only one way to find out. Have Glenn custom make the amp for me and hear it for myself.


----------



## JazzVinyl

For those who have the dual 6J5 to SN7 adapter:

It appears the 6J5 pin out is similar to 6N7,  looks like a pair of 6N7's could be used directly in the
dual 6J5 to SN7 adapter (w/o the 6N7 to SN7 adapters) for 6N7 L and 6N7 R 

Can someone confirm this, please?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 11, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Initially I thought the difference was negligible as to be insignificant. Over a period of time, when I have more time to experiment with the switch on 5998, there is a noticeable difference indeed. I'm glad I went with the switch which cost me $100 extra.
> 
> In fact I've been running Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp and Tung Sol 5998 for several days with the switch off ....... now I just turn the switch and I can tell the difference straight away. Those who can't hear a difference should try this.  Listen to it for several days without the switch, then turn the switch on.



Dislike *sigh*

I'll think on that switch, if I find myself spending a lot of time with the 5998/421A.

(but would I spend more time with them if I had the swtich?)


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> That's why a 6AS7/5998 switch is appropriate.



Love this. If I had known this dial exist, would have got Glenn put one in for me.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 11, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Since my GOTL was bought secondhand, it lacks the 5998 switch.  Had I waited my turn in the queue, it would have been included.  I wish I wasn't curious how it would affect the sound of my 5998s and 421As.
> 
> Don't temp me, Frodo...



Haha... don't loose sleep over the switch. There is a difference but you're not lacking too much with 5998 without the switch. The important thing is to turn the switch on in your mind and tell yourself that 5998 sounds great even without the switch and all will be well.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> If the KT150 came to be it would probably be speaker only. I intended for it to be single-ended and triode strapped. Poor man's 300B was kind of the concept. A number of people say this tube sounds good this way and that this was one of the intended uses when it was designed.



Lovers of the KT150 tube would be horrified to hear you calling it the poor man's 300b. 

Can you imagine if I had gone ahead with buying the KT150, it would be 8 x KT150 in the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP and that will put out 90 watts rms into 8 ohms !!!


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Hi H1,
> 
> A pleasure as always to have a conversation with you. I wasn't petty when I call out DL. I just wanted to set the record straight. You were the first to adopt the EL12 spez and letting everyone know how good it sound. I think then it was @HOWIE13 that tried it next. Not long after my adapters arrived and I heard it for myself. DL came much much later.
> 
> ...



Yes indeed UT...some of those old EL11s can be a bit 'temperamental', but I personally found it was (surprisingly) the Telefunkens that were more prone to problems than other versions...particularly those with a 'milky' looking internal coating. But glad you now have a goodly supply of perfect ones.

And as for the EL12 Spez top anode cap...take comfort from the fact that many of the 'super' DIY builds of the past used such tubes. Think of them as a 'badge of honor' lol! ...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Yes indeed UT...some of those old EL11s can be a bit 'temperamental', but I personally found it was (surprisingly) the Telefunkens that were more prone to problems than other versions...particularly those with a 'milky' looking internal coating. But glad you now have a goodly supply of perfect ones.
> 
> And as for the EL12 Spez top anode cap...take comfort from the fact that many of the 'super' DIY builds of the past used such tubes. Think of them as a 'badge of honor' lol! ...



I do not have the 'milky' ones anymore. These are only a sample of my large collection of EL tubes. I must have the largest private collection of EL11, EL12, EL12 spez. 

Badge of honor' ? ok I'll wear it with pride.


----------



## UntilThen

You'll noticed that the tubes are all gleaming new. That's because I buy only brand new in box NOS EL tubes. I stop counting how much I spend on these tubes. I have more than twice tubes of that picture above now.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 11, 2019)

Continuing to roll 6BX7/7802 combos.  I liked the Toshiba 6BX7 with the 7802 very much, but it was time to move on.  Next up, Fivre.  There might be a slight loss of air compared to the Toshibas, but what you get back is a more full low end and silky midrange, gives the sound a little more body and texture.  Really liking it so far, nice balance to the somewhat bright sound of the 7802.

I've been listening to this Belgian-Caribbean artist Charlotte Adigéry.  I would call here electro pop, great vocalist, well-produced, sounds great on the Auteur.

Oh and the ECC32 as a driver.  Man, the more a listen to this tube, the more I think it deserves every accolade it has received.  It has solidified its place in the upper echelon of drivers, for me.

Sorry, don't mean to derail the Glenn Sound Prototyping Think Tank


----------



## A2029

Xcalibur255 said:


> Yep, this meter would be more useful to use with the bias switch.
> 
> Not to say that the voltage meter would be useless.  If you are using tube rectifiers it would be a neat way to see how much B+ drop you are getting from various types of tubes as you roll them.



In this application that's actually a voltage selection switch, not a bias switch


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I do not have the 'milky' ones anymore. These are only a sample of my large collection of EL tubes. I must have the largest private collection of EL11, EL12, EL12 spez.
> 
> Badge of honor' ? ok I'll wear it with pride.



I want an amp with these tubes based on looks alone.  I am tempted to buy even if I cannot use!  Might make a nice table display.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I want an amp with these tubes based on looks alone.  I am tempted to buy even if I cannot use!  Might make a nice table display.



An amp made for the EL tubes will be a piece of art. I think it will look grand - forget about the sound. Who needs sound. 

As a glimpse of the look, just look at GOTZILLA. It's the Starship Enterprise !.   Notice I said looks. I do not endorsed EL tubes pile into GOTL that way for sound quality.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm trying to visualise how an amp with EL11 and EL12 spez will look.

This is Sam's EL3N amp which I think looks gorgeous. Now replace the front 2 tubes with EL11 and the back 2 tubes with EL12 spez and you have Berlin. !


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sorry, don't mean to derail the Glenn Sound Prototyping Think Tank



Hahaha .... time for me to go to work and let conventional tube rolling resume in this beautiful thread.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> How about an amp built around the 6L6 with a switch for 6L6/KT66/EL34/KT77? Yes, the rare early tubes made by the "usual suspects" are expensive, but these tubes are very popular and are still being made today. Some of the new production varieties are meant to be very good.
> 
> If anyone is interested in these tubes, the sound differences are subjective. Just Google 6L6 vs KT66, KT66 vs EL34, etc. And of course the more popular brands such as Mullard and GEC had many variations made in many different factories.



After thinking about this I am going to Mod my 300B amp to use 6L6/KT66/EL34/KT77 I will be able to use the EL12spez  with a adapter. Even though I hate the way adapters look.
If I cut the bigger hole in the chassis for the EL12 socket and I don't like how it sounds I am screwed'
Plus going to use the L63 for the driver I love how these tubes sound and have 6J5 to EL3N adapters already.
Problem now is time trying to ketch up building amps got behind when not feeling well. Working on amps every night no time to play with my stuff.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> After thinking about this I am going to Mod my 300B amp to use 6L6/KT66/EL34/KT77 I will be able to use the EL12spez  with a adapter. Even though I hate the way adapters look.
> If I cut the bigger hole in the chassis for the EL12 socket and I don't like how it sounds I am screwed'
> Plus going to use the L63 for the driver I love how these tubes sound and have 6J5 to EL3N adapters already.
> *Problem now is time trying to ketch up building amps got behind when not feeling well. Working on amps every night no time to play with my stuff.*



Awww no need to rush ! Look after yourself. Everyone else can wait. Seriously I mean it. Thanks Glenn for what you've done for the community all these years.

For your application, your suggestion is probably the best way to go.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I'm trying to visualise how an amp with EL11 and EL12 spez will look.
> 
> This is Sam's EL3N amp which I think looks gorgeous. Now replace the front 2 tubes with EL11 and the back 2 tubes with EL12 spez and you have Berlin. !



I was planing to make it just like that back right and left will be the EL12spez big fat rectifier in the middle. and two EL11 in front.
Maybe have to use a larger chassis to use a larger power transformer probably will run the EL12spez at 425 volts.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Working on amps every night no time to play with my stuff.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> How about an amp built around the 6L6 with a switch for 6L6/KT66/EL34/KT77? Yes, the rare early tubes made by the "usual suspects" are expensive, but these tubes are very popular and are still being made today. Some of the new production varieties are meant to be very good.
> 
> If anyone is interested in these tubes, the sound differences are subjective. Just Google 6L6 vs KT66, KT66 vs EL34, etc. And of course the more popular brands such as Mullard and GEC had many variations made in many different factories.



I would like to know about the KT66 vs EL34...I will do some checking


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> I do not have the 'milky' ones anymore. These are only a sample of my large collection of EL tubes. I must have the largest private collection of EL11, EL12, EL12 spez.
> 
> Badge of honor' ? ok I'll wear it with pride.



WOW, UT...nice...looking forward to hearing what magic Glenn can weave with these tubes. Lucky you!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I was planing to make it just like that back right and left will be the EL12spez big fat rectifier in the middle. and two EL11 in front.
> Maybe have to use a larger chassis to use a larger power transformer probably will run the EL12spez at 425 volts.



WOOHOO  ........ I'm dreaming of a white christmas where every tree hangs the EL12 spez tubes !!! That's a song btw. 

Looking forward to it !!!   but like I say your health first !!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> WOW, UT...nice...looking forward to hearing what magic Glenn can weave with these tubes. Lucky you!



Thank you thank you. Now I have to work extra hard.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> big fat rectifier in the middle



How did you know I have a big fat rectifier?


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Was going to buy 8 of those for my Primaluna but then decided I didn't want to keep the PL.


At some point, I was considering a PL (before deciding on the GEL3N).  I am curious, why did you sell it?  What didn't you like about it?



L0rdGwyn said:


> too bad I could not see the future!


Telling myself that every single day...


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Love this. If I had known this dial exist, would have got Glenn put one in for me.


Yeah - looks awesome!
@2359glenn - what do you think?  Should we add a dial to my upcoming build?  
(I know it is not needed for EL3N amp, but it looks so cool...)


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I'm trying to visualise how an amp with EL11 and EL12 spez will look.
> 
> This is Sam's EL3N amp which I think looks gorgeous. Now replace the front 2 tubes with EL11 and the back 2 tubes with EL12 spez and you have Berlin. !



Ask and you shall receive.  I am going to start charging for these mock ups, the quality is undeniable. 

I smell a career change.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ask and you shall receive.  I am going to start charging for these mock ups, the quality is undeniable.
> 
> I smell a career change.




Ha...good job.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ask and you shall receive.  I am going to start charging for these mock ups, the quality is undeniable.
> 
> I smell a career change.



OMG I have to frame that up now and put it on the wall. Thank you K. You have a talent.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> After thinking about this I am going to Mod my 300B amp to use 6L6/KT66/EL34/KT77 I will be able to use the EL12spez  with a adapter. Even though I hate the way adapters look.
> If I cut the bigger hole in the chassis for the EL12 socket and I don't like how it sounds I am screwed'
> Plus going to use the L63 for the driver I love how these tubes sound and have 6J5 to EL3N adapters already.
> Problem now is time trying to ketch up building amps got behind when not feeling well. Working on amps every night no time to play with my stuff.



I am hesitant to go on record, but the 6J5 might be my favorite driver tube.  If the queue gets to me and I am lucky enough to have you build me a transformer-coupled amp, Glenn, I would likely do a very similar build: 6J5 input with 6L6 or perhaps EL12 output, if they are still available.

Don't work too hard!  Take some time to enjoy the music


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> At some point, I was considering a PL (before deciding on the GEL3N). I am curious, why did you sell it? What didn't you like about it?



I'll reply tonight. Have to go to work now !


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> OMG I have to frame that up now and put it on the wall. Thank you K. You have a talent.



My sister is a graphic designer.  It pretty much runs in the family


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> How did you know I have a big fat rectifier?


You announced it a couple of days ago you won a big fat rectifier tube cheap.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 11, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Interesting that you brought this up. In the review-33 site, several members also remark about the EL12 being bright but a seasoned member with experience with this tube and in the Klangfilm amp, pointed out that was not his experience. He mentioned that EL12 properly configured does not sound bright but rather exhibit a lovely natural sounding tone that is very enjoyable.
> 
> There's only one way to find out. Have Glenn custom make the amp for me and hear it for myself.



I'm almost as excited as you are to see how this turns out at this point.

So one thing I'm still not certain about is the difference between the EL12 and the EL12spez.  Glenn says these tubes have the exact same electrical parameters.  They should sound the same, much like the 6F8G and the 6SN7 sound the same.  One has a cap wire and the other doesn't.  It can be argued in that case that differences in glass envelope and mica supports could make for small differences, but the two EL12 tubes appear to share glass and plate design.  The only difference is that cap.  So why does everybody think that the spez version of this tube sounds better? 

I'm very apprehensive about tubes that have caps because people always seem to have problems with hum being picked up on those wires, but if there is something different construction-wise about the spez that truly makes it a better sounding tube then that would be good reason to use it.  If we cannot confirm this for a fact then my inclination for my own build would be to forget the spez version exists and just use the regular EL12.


----------



## Xcalibur255

swich401 said:


> In this application that's actually a voltage selection switch, not a bias switch



I'm glad to see you pop in here.  Myself and others always enjoy the opportunity to learn more about how this stuff works.

So the switch is raising plate voltage from 250 to 275?  I'm guessing with the CCS the plate current goes up as well?  Increasing voltage without increasing the current as well would seem to be counter-productive to me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I was planing to make it just like that back right and left will be the EL12spez big fat rectifier in the middle. and two EL11 in front.
> Maybe have to use a larger chassis to use a larger power transformer probably will run the EL12spez at 425 volts.



I was wondering about that last bit.  So that's where 10 watts of output power comes from.  The spez tubes run at higher voltage.  I'm guessing the regular EL12 are 250V tubes and probably only make half the power.

Hmmm.  Guess there is nothing to do but wait and see what people think of these new designs.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> You announced it a couple of days ago you won a big fat rectifier tube cheap.



I think Glenn had in mind a giant big fat rectifier.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Some of us are comfortable keeping our rectification hidden.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I was wondering about that last bit.  So that's where 10 watts of output power comes from.  The spez tubes run at higher voltage.  I'm guessing the regular EL12 are 250V tubes and probably only make half the power.
> 
> Hmmm.  Guess there is nothing to do but wait and see what people think of these new designs.



Yup that’s where the difference between EL12 and EL12 spez is...  or one of the difference


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Some of us are comfortable keeping our rectification hidden.



Haha but this build I’ll show it off.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Yup that’s where the difference between EL12 and EL12 spez is...  or one of the difference



Yeah this makes my choices harder still.  Let's see if this EL12spez blows the socks off of you and Glenn.  I'm super weary of cap wires.....  just seems like a source of trouble down the road.  I could probably still get by on less power and still use the regular EL12.  It's a question of whether I would like that sound or the KT150 sound better mostly, and there may be no way to answer that question.  Unless both amps were built, which is of course not happening.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ask and you shall receive.  I am going to start charging for these mock ups, the quality is undeniable.
> 
> I smell a career change.


Warning to the naive ones on the thread:
The tube caps are missing from the EL12spez tubes... @L0rdGwyn is trying to deceive you all with his professional photoshop job!  Fake detected!!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Warning to the naive ones on the thread:
> The tube caps are missing from the EL12spez tubes... @L0rdGwyn is trying to deceive you all with his professional photoshop job!  Fake detected!!!



And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!


----------



## Sound Trooper (Sep 11, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ask and you shall receive.  I am going to start charging for these mock ups, the quality is undeniable.
> 
> I smell a career change.



LOL! You guys are the best! I was wondering why does this picture look familiar and I remember it was my amp..

Hey Matt, I would strongly recommend you to take the XL chassis. I think the amp looks more proportional with it.

I have started to discuss with Glenn on my new amp!


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'm almost as excited as you are to see how this turns out at this point.
> 
> So one thing I'm still not certain about is the difference between the EL12 and the EL12spez.  Glenn says these tubes have the exact same electrical parameters.  They should sound the same, much like the 6F8G and the 6SN7 sound the same.  One has a cap wire and the other doesn't.  It can be argued in that case that differences in glass envelope and mica supports could make for small differences, but the two EL12 tubes appear to share glass and plate design.  The only difference is that cap.  So why does everybody think that the spez version of this tube sounds better?
> 
> I'm very apprehensive about tubes that have caps because people always seem to have problems with hum being picked up on those wires, but if there is something different construction-wise about the spez that truly makes it a better sounding tube then that would be good reason to use it.  If we cannot confirm this for a fact then my inclination for my own build would be to forget the spez version exists and just use the regular EL12.



No hum that is when the wire is on the grid like 6F8. This is the plate lead high voltage is on this one. 425 volts plus the audio signal of a couple of hundred volts.
So a total off 600 or so volts.  Don't touch the cap with the amp on!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> No hum that is when the wire is on the grid like 6F8. This is the plate lead high voltage is on this one. 425 volts plus the audio signal of a couple of hundred volts.
> So a total off 600 or so volts.  Don't touch the cap with the amp on!!!!!!!!!!!



And keep the kids and grand kids away!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 11, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> No hum that is when the wire is on the grid like 6F8. This is the plate lead high voltage is on this one. 425 volts plus the audio signal of a couple of hundred volts.
> So a total off 600 or so volts.  Don't touch the cap with the amp on!!!!!!!!!!!



When these were first brought up, I saw that big honking top cap and thought, "woah, that's intimidating".  Checked the specs, sure enough it is the plate.

NO TOUCHY!!!!!


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> And keep the kids and grand kids away!


How about the wife lol?


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> When these were first brought up, I saw that big honking top cap and thought, "woah, that's intimidating".  Checked the specs, sure enough it is the plate.
> 
> NO TOUCHY!!!!!



It only hearts for a second.  By then you ether took your finger off or your dead.
Most likely you took your finger off.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> It only hearts for a second.  By then you ether took your finger off or your dead.
> Most likely you took your finger off.



Hope everyone who considers this amp, has good insurance!


----------



## 2359glenn

What is the fun if there is no risk of electrocution.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> It only hearts for a second.  By then you ether took your finger off or your dead.
> Most likely you took your finger off.



Please bring your most comfortable rubber soled shoes when listening to EL12spez 

JK, but people really do need to be careful.  No. Touchy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Please bring your most comfortable rubber soled shoes when listening to EL12spez
> 
> JK, but people really do need to be careful.  No. Touchy.



And they will really need some excellent insurance.  Wasn't kidding.  If it exposes lethal voltages....you ain't exactly gonna get the Good Housekeeping seal of approval.

Be careful what you wish for.


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 11, 2019)

I don't feel 425 volts is that high my SV572-3 amps run at 1200 on the plate. The graphite plates glow red these baby's through off some heat.
But no top cap to touch.


----------



## 2359glenn

With The EL12spez you get electrocuted with the beat of the music.
You know I am nuts when at Stavros house I grabbed onto 230 volts to see if 50Hz feels different then 60Hz it does.


----------



## JazzVinyl

In electronics class, we used to clandestinely hook up 120 AC to the metal stool of our less than beloved classmates...
Was funny....until it was your turn, to get zapped.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 11, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> You know I am nuts when at Stavros house I grabbed onto 230 volts to see if 50Hz feels different then 60Hz it does.



Glenn is a connoisseur of electrocution.  He prefers more mild 60Hz 120 VAC notes start with a more bold 425 VDC finish, gives the experience more body.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> With The EL12spez you get electrocuted with the beat of the music.
> You know I am nuts when at Stavros house I grabbed onto 230 volts to see if 50Hz feels different then 60Hz it does.



That’s the reason I decide on EL12 spez because I need a bit of electrocution and pulse with my music.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> No hum that is when the wire is on the grid like 6F8. This is the plate lead high voltage is on this one. 425 volts plus the audio signal of a couple of hundred volts.
> So a total off 600 or so volts.  Don't touch the cap with the amp on!!!!!!!!!!!


Somehow that's even worse.

What's the advantage to having the plate voltage fed through that cap like that?  Just better heat handling?


----------



## mordy

The EL12 comes in three flavors: EL12, EL12N and EL12 Spezial. These tubes are available in different voltages (250, 325, 350, 375 and 425 depending on the tube) - I do not know the implications of this in using it in a headphone amp.
I do not have the EL12 Spez, but found the EL12 to be a finicky tube and prone to failures; based on reading, the EL12 Spez seems more reliable. The EL12 and Spez are ST tubes.
The third type, the EL12N, seemed easy to use and reliable and has a different shape with straight glass (comes in 250 and 325V versions). Most of them seemed to be made by RFT under many different names and is the least expensive of these tubes.





Here is a Klangfilm amplifier made by TFK using EL12 Spez tubes:


----------



## UntilThen

Yeah Mordy in the review-33 site, the members there have their preference of those tubes in this order in terms of SQ:-

EL12 spez
EL12 
EL12 N


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 11, 2019)

During my time trialling those tubes in Euforia, I find the EL12N have a brighter tone and leaner compared to the other EL12 , EL12 spez.

I also find the EL12N less problematic than the other 2.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> LOL! You guys are the best! I was wondering why does this picture look familiar and I remember it was my amp..
> 
> Hey Matt, I would strongly recommend you to take the XL chassis. I think the amp looks more proportional with it.
> 
> I have started to discuss with Glenn on my new amp!




This is an improved version of your amp with a lot more power and no we’re not swapping. 

Look at the colour. Black and grey. It’s a work of art.


----------



## Monsterzero

Found another fantastic tube roll for the VC tonight. Since replacing my GEC U18/20 with the GZ34,all the drivers ive been trying have added too much rough stuff in the bass,so I dropped in the EL8s...perfect!
Its a testament to the VC as the EL8s do not sound bass light with the VC. Rest of the roll is GZ34+ 6x 6bx7.
Snappy,fantastic imaging,great slam. God this headphone rocks!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 11, 2019)

I think I am going to try some somewhat obscure driver tubes in the near future, the MHL4 and MH4/REN904/E424N/A4110.  Will need Deyan's assistance to make a 4V adapter in a B5 socket, perhaps a MHL4 to 6SN7 adapter, will have to think about it.  Prices on some of these very old beauties will make your knees weak, but I am a 6J5/L63 believer, and the MHL4 is the precursor.  The MH4 is a similar, 4V 40mu variant, also well-suited for audio 

Wish I could jump on this now, but I am a broke student.  Might have to wait for the new job before I dig yet another rabbit hole.


----------



## UntilThen

I’m a poor farmer but I’m going with the full works for Berlin. Will leverage off the 10 watts for speakers out and preamp, Jupiters caps, Yamamoto sockets, xl chassis, Gold Point to all knobs.

3 months from now I’m ready Glenn or as per your schedule. Cheers. UT.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh I need 2 dials or volt meters or whatever they are for. For some bling.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> You know I am nuts when at Stavros house I grabbed onto 230 volts to see if 50Hz feels different then 60Hz it does.


I got electrocuted as a kid by 220v 50Hz, trying to secure the TV cord to the wall socket... Next thing I remember is hitting my back hard against the sofa 8 feet away from the wall. 
Never again was I careless enough to let my fingers touch the power cord pins while inserting to the wall socket!! Lesson learned


----------



## SonicTrance

Xcalibur255 said:


> Somehow that's even worse.
> 
> What's the advantage to having the plate voltage fed through that cap like that?  Just better heat handling?


They use the top cap so it wont arch over in the socket. Most, if not all, tubes with anode caps can take pulses of very high voltage. Often 1000+ volts. If you have 1000+ volts 2mm from the control grid for example bad things can happen


----------



## hypnos1

Fear not _too_ much @UntilThen about that top anode...no need for paranoia lol ...I presume Glenn will be using a ceramic cap with the wire, and which should cover most of the metal. As I too seem to have a death wish, I have often touched the ceramic cap out of interest(!!) and _think_ I'm still here! One would have to be _extremely_ stupid and poke something metal into the very small gap that might exist at the base of the cap/metal boundary...*WHY??*...

But sure, not inquisitive child friendly...that cap might just prove too tempting not to play with and pull off?!  But hey, children and hot tubes are not a good combination anyway lol!

And one of the main reasons for some folks not liking them too much is that the metal contact insert of the ceramic-type cap can work loose with repeated use and compromise the contact, of course. However, it's a simple job to just prise them back into place...with the amp switched _off_, that is!!  (and another reason why when I make my own, I extend the wire(s) into the cap so as to also make direct contact with the tube's connector). But I repeat...*superglue the tube connector to the glass* as insurance - old adhesive can and does fail, and a few turns from side to side will possibly snap the tube's wire, especially when the cap fits snugly!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> But I repeat...*superglue the tube connector to the glass* as insurance



Thanks for the advice H1. I'm certainly looking forward to EL12 spez. Top anode cap will not deter me. In fact I might like it. Gives the amp more character. 

Your advice to glue the tube connector to the glass is good but Glenn will make a custom tube connector that extends from the Lundahl transformer housing. So the EL12 spez will plug into the socket with no need for adapter. The tube connector will then connect to the top anode cap of the tube. Similar to what you see in the Glenn 300b amp below where the tube connectors are connected to the tube rectifiers. Neat and nice. I really like it.


----------



## UntilThen

Cossor 53KU rectifier arrived today and I've never been so excited with a tube before, let alone a rectifier. This looks even better than the GEC U52. So much bigger. Both are just as expensive. GEC U52 - AUD$400, Cossor 53KU - AUD$370. The first listen of the Cossor 53KU brought a big smile to my face. Same feeling as when I first heard the GEC U52. It will take a while before I can put down in words the tonal differences between these 2 rectifiers as used in Studio Six. The Cossor 53ku has a bigger and fatter bass sound. It makes Verite sound even better in the mid bass !!! They are substantially better sounding than the Mullard GZ34 to my ears.

A few photos. Cossor 53ku is with brown base. My crappy photos doesn't show it well,


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I think I am going to try some somewhat obscure driver tubes in the near future, the MHL4 and MH4/REN904/E424N/A4110.  Will need Deyan's assistance to make a 4V adapter in a B5 socket, perhaps a MHL4 to 6SN7 adapter, will have to think about it.  Prices on some of these very old beauties will make your knees weak, but I am a 6J5/L63 believer, and the MHL4 is the precursor.  The MH4 is a similar, 4V 40mu variant, also well-suited for audio
> 
> Wish I could jump on this now, but I am a broke student.  Might have to wait for the new job before I dig yet another rabbit hole.



I also love the L63/6J5 and was looking int the MHL4 a bit pricey though.  Each one will need a 2 ohm 5 watt resistor on the filament if run on 6.3 volts.
Or if hooked in series 8 volt will need a 4 ohm 10 watt if run at 12 volts. these resistors will get hot.


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> Fear not _too_ much @UntilThen about that top anode...no need for paranoia lol ...I presume Glenn will be using a ceramic cap with the wire, and which should cover most of the metal. As I too seem to have a death wish, I have often touched the ceramic cap out of interest(!!) and _think_ I'm still here! One would have to be _extremely_ stupid and poke something metal into the very small gap that might exist at the base of the cap/metal boundary...*WHY??*...
> 
> But sure, not inquisitive child friendly...that cap might just prove too tempting not to play with and pull off?!  But hey, children and hot tubes are not a good combination anyway lol!
> 
> And one of the main reasons for some folks not liking them too much is that the metal contact insert of the ceramic-type cap can work loose with repeated use and compromise the contact, of course. However, it's a simple job to just prise them back into place...with the amp switched _off_, that is!!  (and another reason why when I make my own, I extend the wire(s) into the cap so as to also make direct contact with the tube's connector). But I repeat...*superglue the tube connector to the glass* as insurance - old adhesive can and does fail, and a few turns from side to side will possibly snap the tube's wire, especially when the cap fits snugly!



I will be using NOS American cap made by Hobson Bros.made out of Bakelite. Comes down flush with the glass on most tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Cossor 53KU rectifier arrived today and I've never been so excited with a tube before, let alone a rectifier. This looks even better than the GEC U52. So much bigger. Both are just as expensive. GEC U52 - AUD$400, Cossor 53KU - AUD$370. The first listen of the Cossor 53KU brought a big smile to my face. Same feeling as when I first heard the GEC U52. It will take a while before I can put down in words the tonal differences between these 2 rectifiers as used in Studio Six. The Cossor 53ku has a bigger and fatter bass sound. It makes Verite sound even better in the mid bass !!! They are substantially better sounding than the Mullard GZ34 to my ears.
> 
> A few photos. Cossor 53ku is with brown base. My crappy photos doesn't show it well,



When buying rectifiers for the EL12spez amp make sure they are rated at over 1000 PIV.  In a 300B amp had a GZ32 blow up with 425 volts feed to the rectifier.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I will be using NOS American cap made by Hobson Bros.made out of Bakelite. Comes down flush with the glass on most tubes.



Hobson Bros sounds good !!! Same ones as used on the 300b amp in the picture?



2359glenn said:


> When buying rectifiers for the EL12spez amp make sure they are rated at over 1000 PIV.  In a 300B amp had a GZ32 blow up with 425 volts feed to the rectifier.



Oh.... what rectifiers are rated at over 1000 PIV ? Are the GEC U52 and Cossor 53ku over 1000PIV?  Or do I have to resort to build in hexfred with soft start? I rather have a tube rectifier in the middle. Looks good !  

Please advice.


----------



## UntilThen

@Sound Trooper , I've just the tube for your next build. Top anode cap rules. 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RARE-NO...rentrq:24b92ff916d0ad4b56cf1a00ffb64938|iid:1


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I don't feel 425 volts is that high my SV572-3 amps run at 1200 on the plate. The graphite plates glow red these baby's through off some heat.
> But no top cap to touch.


----------



## whirlwind

Giving the Osram KT63 tubes a spin to make sure there are no problems

Like all GEC tubes that I have ever tried, these also have nice detail.

I am going to need more adapters, lol


----------



## UntilThen

Ha...

*The U52 is a very useful rectifier with its 250 mA current rating and PIV of 1,400 Volts.
*
but I can't find specs for Cossor 53ku.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Giving the Osram KT63 tubes a spin to make sure there are no problems
> 
> Like all GEC tubes that I have ever tried, these also have nice detail.



Brilliant !!! GEC tubes are indeed nice. In my excitement with other stuff, I forgot to buy the GEC 6V6.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 12, 2019)

Looks like I can use GZ34 and Cossor 53ku too. Glenn is PIV => 1000 the only criteria?


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 12, 2019)

Joe, this opens up a lot of possibilities for your GEL3N amp. Try the 6V6, it will be another different tone.

However according to this chart, the KT63 is a premium model of the 6V6.


----------



## whirlwind

The Osram KT63 sound fantastic with the warmer Mullard GZ32 rectifier and the  Eindhoven EL3N....using ZMF Ori

They do run a little hotter than the EL3N and the EL34 tubes


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Cossor 53KU rectifier arrived today and I've never been so excited with a tube before, let alone a rectifier. This looks even better than the GEC U52. So much bigger. Both are just as expensive. GEC U52 - AUD$400, Cossor 53KU - AUD$370. The first listen of the Cossor 53KU brought a big smile to my face. Same feeling as when I first heard the GEC U52. It will take a while before I can put down in words the tonal differences between these 2 rectifiers as used in Studio Six. The Cossor 53ku has a bigger and fatter bass sound. It makes Verite sound even better in the mid bass !!! They are substantially better sounding than the Mullard GZ34 to my ears.
> 
> A few photos. Cossor 53ku is with brown base. My crappy photos doesn't show it well,



Goodness that Cossor 53KU is a BIG BOY! It dwarfs all of your other tubes 

 I've been looking for one but I'm not sure how it will meld with the Teton with its warmer sound.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 12, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Goodness that Cossor 53KU is a BIG BOY! It dwarfs all of your other tubes
> 
> I've been looking for one but I'm not sure how it will meld with the Teton with its warmer sound.



It's rather big compared to the U52. It doesn't sound that much warmer than the U52 to me but the more pronounced bass is noticeable. Texture is fuller. Really nice sound with Verite. Can't switch that quickly with U52 to compare the differences. The best way is to listen to Cossor 53ku for a week then switch to GEC U52. That way I can detect differences much easier.

Probably enough spend on rectifiers. Don't know if I want to chase a WE 422A.

My focus now will be on Berlin because I think that will be the best of my tube amps. I'm that confident.

I'm listening with Studio Six. Just incredible sounding. The details flood your brains. Can hear individual notes clearly and bass is lovely. I don't think I've fully appreciated the Studio Six since I got it but it's getting attention now.


----------



## audiofest2018

Hi Glenn @2359glenn, you have a PM from me.  I am interested in placing order on one of your famous amp.  Have just follow this thread for one month only so still learning about all you're amps.  Thanks!


----------



## UntilThen

audiofest2018 said:


> Hi Glenn @2359glenn, you have a PM from me.  I am interested in placing order on one of your famous amp.  Have just follow this thread for one month only so still learning about all you're amps.  Thanks!



Welcome mate but the question is which one? There are far too many versions of Glenn's amp now and they are all good, even those that are in the concept phase.


----------



## audiofest2018 (Sep 12, 2019)

@UntilThen, Thank you sir!  It is true that "which one" is the answer I am trying to get and that is also what I am struggled with.  I guess I need to read more prior messages from this thread but they are just so much information out there and I admit it is a little bit overwhelm for me to read them all as I am new to Glenn's amp design.  I learned his gears from other threads and my curiosity leads me here. Until then I have no idea as how little I know about headphone tube amp.  It's been fun and a good learning experience reading all your guy's comments....


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 12, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> I also love the L63/6J5 and was looking int the MHL4 a bit pricey though.  Each one will need a 2 ohm 5 watt resistor on the filament if run on 6.3 volts.
> Or if hooked in series 8 volt will need a 4 ohm 10 watt if run at 12 volts. these resistors will get hot.



Yes, they are a bit pricey, but still around the same price as the L63.  Would probably have to be a Vishay wirewound, 8mm long rated to 350C, could fit.  Maybe an enclosure that can dissipate some heat.

Have you ever heard of the MH4, Glenn?  I think this might be another interesting tube to try.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, they are a bit pricey, but still around the same price as the L63.  Would probably have to be a Vishay wirewound, 8mm long rated to 350C, could fit.
> 
> Have you ever heard of the MH4, Glenn?  I think this might be another interesting tube to try.



Here are some beautiful examples of the MH4 and its equivalents.  Better get your bib, you will drool.  Just don't look at the prices!


----------



## UntilThen

audiofest2018 said:


> @UntilThen, Thank you sir!  It is true that "which one" is the answer I am trying to get and that is also what I am struggled with.  I guess I need to read more prior messages from this thread but they are just so much information out there and I admit it is a little bit overwhelm for me to read them all as I am new to Glenn's amp design.  I learned his gears from other threads and my curiosity leads me here. Until then I have no idea as how little I know about headphone tube amp.  It's been fun and a good learning experience reading all your guy's comments....



There are currently 3 versions available. Many more are in the pipeline. The 3 versions are :-

The OTL amp, also known as GOTL. Output transformerless. You can get the basic or the advanced version that will accept 6 x 6BL7 / 6BX7 as power tubes.

GEL3N. Transformer coupled amp using Philips Miniwatt EL3N tubes.

Glenn 300b amp. Uses 2 x c3g and 2 x 300b tubes.

Prices are ascending in that order.

If you've a high impedance headphone such as the ZMF Verite, Eikon or Atticus or HD800, the natural choice is the GOTL. This amp is incredibly good in sound and value.

The other 2 are even more incredible in sound going by owners' impressions.

Hope this short summary helps.

You may call me UT. Calling me Sir UntilThen almost make me fall off my chair. Just kidding. You're a very polite gentleman. My total respect.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here are some beautiful examples of the MH4 and its equivalents. Better get your bib, you will drool. Just don't look at the prices!



More tubes K? You know I've just graduated from Tubecoholic Anonymous. Tubes mean nothing to me now. Those are very nice though.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> I will be using NOS American cap made by Hobson Bros.made out of Bakelite. Comes down flush with the glass on most tubes.



That cap looks really good, Glenn...and would seem to me to make any danger very slight indeed - barring idiocy and curious kids! Have you yourself given in to the 'I dare you to touch me syndrome' yet?  But bakelite should be just as good an insulator as ceramic anyway, no?

And from the look of that photo @UntilThen , yes...should look kinda _cool_ lol .

ps. Hope you're back to 100% Glenn...how you manage to make all these amps _and_ have a daytime job I'll never know. But just don't overdo it! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> More tubes K? You know I've just graduated from Tubecoholic Anonymous. Tubes mean nothing to me now. Those are very nice though.



Always more!!!  JK, I am pretty content with my GOTL collection.  BUT my love of the MOV L63 has me searching for more of what it provides.  I believe it was @m17xr2b who mentioned the MHL4 might be a step above its progeny, the L63.  Then while researching, I came cross the MH4, and now I am in a tail spin.  Such is the life of a tube addict.

I am also planning for the future.  I had asked Glenn when I bought wazzupi's GOTL if I could hold my place in the queue.  I am hoping to see if in early to mid 2020 if I can have a transformer-coupled amp built.  If that happens, I will have dedicated 6J5 sockets, no adapter.  If the MHL4 and/or MH4 match or exceed the performance of the MOV L63, then maybe I would ask Glenn for 4V B5 sockets as well.  Unsure what the power tubes would be at this point.

These are my favorite driver tubes, so I am interested to do some more digging


----------



## rnros (Sep 12, 2019)

.


audiofest2018 said:


> @UntilThen, Thank you sir!  It is true that "which one" is the answer I am trying to get and that is also what I am struggled with.  I guess I need to read more prior messages from this thread but they are just so much information out there and I admit it is a little bit overwhelm for me to read them all as I am new to Glenn's amp design.  I learned his gears from other threads and my curiosity leads me here. Until then I have no idea as how little I know about headphone tube amp.  It's been fun and a good learning experience reading all your guy's comments....



Welcome @audiofest2018, highly recommend Glenn's OTL if you want to explore a wide range of tubes. If it's not a classic already, it will be. 
You can spend a lot, or very little, on tubes depending on your wallet and curiosity (or obsession ). But the OTL is the least expensive entry point.
The GOTL will also give you some sense of tubes you might prefer if you want to add a transformer coupled amp later.
Most of the tube discussion here focuses on the GOTL. Tube rolling options on the GEL3N and new transformer coupled projects is recently gaining momentum.
By now you must have gathered that Glenn is easy to work with; reliable, responsive, and helpful when needed.
Good luck and enjoy!


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Joe, this opens up a lot of possibilities for your GEL3N amp. Try the 6V6, it will be another different tone.
> 
> However according to this chart, the KT63 is a premium model of the 6V6.


I wonder what premium model means? Not sure if it has anything to do with how it sounds, or perhaps it means a 10,000 hour rated tube......


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> I wonder what premium model means? Not sure if it has anything to do with how it sounds, or perhaps it means a 10,000 hour rated tube......



I think premium means anything the other side of the Atlantic. Now I have to duck because the missiles will be coming from USA. Yup I think premium means anything with GEC, Osram, Western Electric labels.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, they are a bit pricey, but still around the same price as the L63.  Would probably have to be a Vishay wirewound, 8mm long rated to 350C, could fit.  Maybe an enclosure that can dissipate some heat.
> 
> Have you ever heard of the MH4, Glenn?  I think this might be another interesting tube to try.



Can use the same adapter just has higher gain..
A bit cheaper around $50 each less then I paid for the  GEC L63s


----------



## leftside

There's quite a few US tubes on that "premium" column.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Can use the same adapter just has higher gain..
> A bit cheaper around $50 each less then I paid for the  GEC L63s



And after the MHL4 and MH4 the next step is #27's!


----------



## audiofest2018

UntilThen said:


> There are currently 3 versions available. Many more are in the pipeline. The 3 versions are :-
> 
> The OTL amp, also known as GOTL. Output transformerless. You can get the basic or the advanced version that will accept 6 x 6BL7 / 6BX7 as power tubes.
> 
> ...


Thank you UT for all the information.  They are super useful for me.  I do own some high impedance headphones and I agree that GOTL seems like a fun gear for me to explore different types of tubes rolling (budget permitted...)


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> At some point, I was considering a PL (before deciding on the GEL3N). I am curious, why did you sell it? What didn't you like about it?



Almost forgot to answer your question. When I bought the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP, I was so excited that it use 6 x 12au7 and 8 x KT88. Those are the tubes I received it in. I bought it from a fellow audio enthusiast. I have never referred to anyone as audiophile because that's bull. Enthusiast yes but audiophile sounds snobbish.  Anyway not to be sidetracked, back to the PL.

I bought it primarily to drive my tower speakers that is 4 ohms and capable of 300 watts power. The PL had no trouble driving that pair of speakers at all. It was room filling volume. Those KT88 can sure punch. KT150s would have taken apart my walls. However at the same time, a Redgum Rgi120enr was loan to me and I also have the Ragnarok. So for 2 weeks, it was audition time with those 3 amps in the comfort of my own lounge. Ragnarok was the most clinical sounding of the amps. Not that a neutral sounding amp is bad. Next was the PL and that really surprised me. I had always expected a tube amp to sound tubey and lush and organic. PL didn't sound that way. Next I listen to the Redgum and immediately I feel the connection with Led Zeppelin 'Stairways To Heaven'. In a clinical sounding system, Led Zep songs can be a pain in the ears. Redgum gave my tower speakers a full body tone with just as mesmerising bass punch. That was when I knew I would buy the Redgum and will sell off the PL, which wasn't hard to do. I sold it at the price I paid. I bought it 2nd hand btw and it was as good as new. Immaculate. 

The PL did sound very good with HD800 but I wasn't going to keep it for headphones. It just doesn't seem appropriate that I have to use an amp with 8 x kt88 for headphones. It's an overkill and takes 30 minutes warm up time and generate enough heat to warm the room - ok I exagerate a bit here but you get the idea.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> There's quite a few US tubes on that "premium" column.



I am jesting of course but on first glance, it does seem that way.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> And after the MHL4 and MH4 the next step is #27's!



I just got away from the 27s in my OTL.
Still have to send them to you.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Can use the same adapter just has higher gain..
> A bit cheaper around $50 each less then I paid for the  GEC L63s



I will report back when I get some of these tubes and adapter.  Lots of interesting options to choose from, not just MOV.


----------



## leftside

Very nice!
http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2015/06/tube-of-month-27.html


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Very nice!
> http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2015/06/tube-of-month-27.html



My interest is pique now. I thought there aren't any globe shape 27 tubes anymore. So it's 2.5 volts. Can this be use in the GOTL and if so with adapter?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Tube of the Month, over here


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here are some beautiful examples of the MH4 and its equivalents.  Better get your bib, you will drool.  Just don't look at the prices!




All of these look killer!


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Tube of the Month, over here



Nice pics.

I love this driver tube also....I have a few that I got years ago and they perform above what I paid for them...not sure what they cost today


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> My interest is pique now. I thought there aren't any globe shape 27 tubes anymore. So it's 2.5 volts. Can this be use in the GOTL and if so with adapter?



The 27 is a touchy tube you might have to go through several pars to get ones that are not noisy or hum. I have a good pair that I am giving to Ken.
He is the only person that can use them.
I switched to the L63 because if one goes bad I have to go through the testing of many pairs again.
The L63 sound as good as the 27.
This makes me weary to try the MH4 and MHL4 spend a lot of money and have noisy tubes.  The 27 is much older then these tubes so they might be fine??


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Joe, this opens up a lot of possibilities for your GEL3N amp. Try the 6V6, it will be another different tone.
> 
> However according to this chart, the KT63 is a premium model of the 6V6.




It sure does..


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> All of these look killer!





L0rdGwyn said:


> Here are some beautiful examples of the MH4 and its equivalents.  Better get your bib, you will drool.  Just don't look at the prices!



Those Telefunken look really nice .
You know I was talking myself out of using these tubes now look what you done.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Those Telefunken look really nice .
> You know I was talking myself out of using these tubes now look what you done.



They sure look very nice especially at the mention of Telefunkens  but I'm pretty much done with more tubes experimentation. Enjoy if you're going for it.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Those Telefunken look really nice .
> You know I was talking myself out of using these tubes now look what you done.



Yeah...the Telefunken look awesome.


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> That cap looks really good, Glenn...and would seem to me to make any danger very slight indeed - barring idiocy and curious kids! Have you yourself given in to the 'I dare you to touch me syndrome' yet?  But bakelite should be just as good an insulator as ceramic anyway, no?
> 
> And from the look of that photo @UntilThen , yes...should look kinda _cool_ lol .
> 
> ps. Hope you're back to 100% Glenn...how you manage to make all these amps _and_ have a daytime job I'll never know. But just don't overdo it! ...CHEERS!...CJ



The caps I use are like the one on this adapter I made


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The caps I use are like the one on this adapter I made




That adapter looks familiar!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Those Telefunken look really nice .
> You know I was talking myself out of using these tubes now look what you done.



Glenn, just look at the prices and you will gasp, those pairs are going for $250-350 on eBay.  Might be able to find better but for the most beautiful NIB pairs, you gotta pay!

When I get excited about a tube, I have to share 

Also be careful, some of the German pre-war military ones have a certain...logo on them you probably don't want to advertise, almost posted a pic of one accidentally.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> That adapter looks familiar!



It might be yours.
Nice 6F8G round plate too a rebranded NU branded GE


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> My interest is pique now. I thought there aren't any globe shape 27 tubes anymore. So it's 2.5 volts. Can this be use in the GOTL and if so with adapter?



These are plentiful and relatively inexpensive, especially if you purchase them in lots of 10 or so. I have over 100....

But it is important to remember. The 27 was introduced in 1927 and the globes were manufactured in the late 1920's and early 1930's. So you are dealing with 90 year-old technology. And as Glenn will attest, it can be a challenge to find two quiet tubes. After all, hissing and humming was the norm in state-of-the-art 1930 radios. And this is why I bought lots of them as cheaply as I could. If Glenn were to build a 27 amp from the ground up, he would pay extra attention to the heater power supply to keep it as clean as possible. But since I have the regular GOTL with the American transformer, the best I could do is use an external DC heater power supply left over from my Little Dot days.

While certainly not as quiet as I would like, these still sound really good. 

Arcturus blue #27. My avatar. 



Sylvania #27, branded as Philco


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glenn, just look at the prices and you will gasp, those pairs are going for $250-350 on eBay.  Might be able to find better but for the most beautiful NIB pairs, you gotta pay!
> 
> When I get excited about a tube, I have to share
> 
> Also be careful, some of the German pre-war military ones have a certain...logo on them you probably don't want to advertise, almost posted a pic of one accidentally.



Just look at them I hate you


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> These are plentiful and relatively inexpensive, especially if you purchase them in lots of 10 or so. I have over 100....
> 
> But it is important to remember. The 27 was introduced in 1927 and the globes were manufactured in the late 1920's and early 1930's. So you are dealing with 90 year-old technology. And as Glenn will attest, it can be a challenge to find two quiet tubes. After all, hissing and humming was the norm in state-of-the-art 1930 radios. And this is why I bought lots of them as cheaply as I could. If Glenn were to build a 27 amp from the ground up, he would pay extra attention to the heater power supply to keep it as clean as possible. But since I have the regular GOTL with the American transformer, the best I could do is use an external DC heater power supply left over from my Little Dot days.
> 
> ...



Thanks Ken. Now I’m really interested because they are cheap..er. 

What adapter do I use?


----------



## Xcalibur255

That's some tube porn right there.

I always wanted to hear a 71A.  The way people talk about them is downright reverent.  Once upon a time I think I wanted to use these for something but I remember you told me they're fussy and power supply design for them is a pain.


----------



## leftside

@Deyan I'm presuming you could make a 27 to 6J5 adapter? Just not yet for me, as I don't have the amp yet.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Nice pics.
> 
> I love this driver tube also....I have a few that I got years ago and they perform above what I paid for them...not sure what they cost today



The 6 volt tubes are up there now.  This one is a 12v and cost peanuts 
Hope the 6 volt guys never figure out how to use external heat!!

Also Joe was listening to some RL Burnside last night and it occurred to me, you might really dig RL Burnside.  Are you familiar with him (he is a blues guy from No Mississippi)?


----------



## Monsterzero

Love RL Burnside! Talking about a dude who kept it real. Perhaps the raunchiest blues Ive ever heard.


----------



## gibosi (Sep 12, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Thanks Ken. Now I’m really interested because they are cheap..er.
> 
> What adapter do I use?



I asked one of the Chinese vendors to modify a #76 to 6SN7 adapter. The #76 is a derivative of the #27, with the same pin-out, but a 6.3V heater. So the tube heaters were disconnected from the socket to allow rerouting to an external heater power supply. In the picture of the pair of blue Arcturus on the previous page, you can see the red and black wires leading to the power supply which is out of sight.


----------



## leftside

This tube addiction.... It's Bad You Know...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Love RL Burnside! Talking about a dude who kept it real. Perhaps the raunchiest blues Ive ever heard.



Excellent MZ....this is the one listening to last night:


 

His grandson, Cedric is a drummer - came to town few years ago with a 2 man band called "Two man wrecking crew" and they were incredibly good.  Just drums and electric guitar, but sound like a full band.  Should check them out, too.  

Think RL passed away not too long back....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> This makes me weary to try the MH4 and MHL4 spend a lot of money and have noisy tubes.  The 27 is much older then these tubes so they might be fine??



Not much older.  MH4 introduced first in 1929.  MH4 and MHL4 existed as globes first, shouldered came later, wartime era, so the earliest 27s are probably 10-15 years older than the shouldered.  Most of the Tele's I have seen are 1930's.

I am concered about the noise too.  I will probably get a "bargain" pair from this family first and see how it goes.  I may have a line...


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Not much older.  MH4 introduced first in 1929.  MH4 and MHL4 existed as globes first, shouldered came later, wartime era, so the earliest 27s are probably 10-15 years older than the shouldered.  Most of the Tele's I have seen are 1930's.
> 
> I am concered about the noise too.  I will probably get a "bargain" pair from this family first and see how it goes.  I may have a line...



That nice pair of Telefunken were $350 if quiet probably sound great. A 27 sound great if you can get quiet ones.


----------



## JazzVinyl

$350 for a pair of L/R drivers is not budget approved!  Better also make dinner, and do foot rubs.


----------



## Monsterzero

For those interested,my VC review is up.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> For those interested,my VC review is up.



They sure are nice cans MZ...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Now Playing:



Via LP...Table-->Late 1970's Audio Technica MM Cart-->Rolls 12ax7 phono_preamp-->GOTL 6x 6BL7 and Tung Sol 12SN7GT Mouse Ears...

Impressive!!


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Now Playing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice. I also have 12ax7 tubes in my phono stage.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Nice. I also have 12ax7 tubes in my phono stage.



Ah!  Very good!  I am using that Russian one...with twisted filament, that is said to reduce noise.  But there are three other 'vintage' non twisted filament 12ax7's around here...somewhere...


----------



## Deyan

leftside said:


> @Deyan I'm presuming you could make a 27 to 6J5 adapter? Just not yet for me, as I don't have the amp yet.



Probably I can.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Ah!  Very good!  I am using that Russian one...with twisted filament, that is said to reduce noise.  But there are three other 'vintage' non twisted filament 12ax7's around here...somewhere...


I'm now out of the 12ax7 tube rolling rabbit hole and seem to have settled on Telefunkens in the phono stage and Raytheon 5751 windmill getters in the line stage. All great little tubes, and I also liked the new production Russian Gold Lions.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> I'm now out of the 12ax7 tube rolling rabbit hole and seem to have settled on Telefunkens in the phono stage and Raytheon 5751 windmill getters in the line stage. All great little tubes, and I also liked the new production Russian Gold Lions.



I have not switched mine in a good while, but I feel a roll comin' on 
Think my others are Mullard/Philips - don't think I have a Telefunken!


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> I asked one of the Chinese vendors to modify a #76 to 6SN7 adapter. The #76 is a derivative of the #27, with the same pin-out, but a 6.3V heater. So the tube heaters were disconnected from the socket to allow rerouting to an external heater power supply. In the picture of the pair of blue Arcturus on the previous page, you can see the red and black wires leading to the power supply which is out of sight.



Ah thanks for the detail explanation. I’ll give it a miss then although that pair of blue Arcturus looks very nice !


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 12, 2019)

Wowee!  Thought I had the Rusky in there, had the Mullard loaded!  I should be thrashed!
Baldwin/Mullard/Rusky LPS, are what I have.

Rusky LPS definitely quieter!

.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The caps I use are like the one on this adapter I made



When I saw this, the first thought that came to my mind was that I could have EL12 and EL12 spez as power tubes with EL12 spez using adapters.

Then I remember you mentioned about optimising EL12 spez by giving it 425 volts. So strictly E12 spez as power tube it will be. Should have more EL12 spez tubes coming soon.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> For those interested,my VC review is up.




Nice. Maybe I should just sell the HD800 and LCD-3f and buy a Verite Close to pair with Verite Open. I like the Verite Open so much. It’s inconceivable that I will like Verite Open so much but I do. Music just sound so good and enjoyable with it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Now Playing, via vinyl:



Possibly the greatest sound quality ever pressed onto vinyl.  This LP is super rich in layers and details.
I have the CD too, and it pales to the sound quality of this LP.  Well done, Frank!

I do have some 1/2 speed mastered LP's that are also incredibly rich in SQ...not sure how he got this much SQ w/o doing a 1/2 speed master...but WOW!


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Nice. Maybe I should just sell the HD800 and LCD-3f and buy a Verite Close to pair with Verite Open. I like the Verite Open so much. It’s inconceivable that I will like Verite Open so much but I do. Music just sound so good and enjoyable with it.


I cant answer that for you,but if you are digging the tone of the VO,and want more detail,more treble energy,and more meat,you will love the VC.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The 27 is a touchy tube you might have to go through several pars to get ones that are not noisy or hum. I have a good pair that I am giving to Ken.
> He is the only person that can use them.
> I switched to the L63 because if one goes bad I have to go through the testing of many pairs again.
> The L63 sound as good as the 27.
> This makes me weary to try the MH4 and MHL4 spend a lot of money and have noisy tubes.  The 27 is much older then these tubes so they might be fine??



The choice of driver and power tubes for a customised amp depends on 3 main criteria as far as I am concerned

1. How good they sound.
2. How reliable they are.
3. Availability.

Lastly a less important criteria, how good they look.

In an world where supplies of NOS tubes are rapidly dwindling, the choice is getting harder and harder.

Perhaps you should start producing tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I cant answer that for you,but if you are digging the tone of the VO,and want more detail,more treble energy,and more meat,you will love the VC.


 
Problem is as soon as I get another Verite Closed, Zach will produce a planar.   Ho ho ho.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Almost forgot to answer your question.


But you didn't. Thanks 



UntilThen said:


> The PL did sound very good with HD800 but I wasn't going to keep it for headphones. It just doesn't seem appropriate that I have to use an amp with 8 x kt88 for headphones. It's an overkill and takes 30 minutes warm up time and generate enough heat to warm the room - ok I exagerate a bit here but you get the idea.


Makes sense! I was debating the much lower power PL amp for headphones, but GEL3N will be way better IMHO


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Problem is as soon as I get another Verite Closed, Zach will produce a planar.   Ho ho ho.


My thought exactly!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 12, 2019)

I do believe the GOTL Forte is vinyl.  Wow!

Thanks, Glenn!!


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> But you didn't. Thanks
> 
> 
> Makes sense! I was debating the much lower power PL amp for headphones, but GEL3N will be way better IMHO



Your GEL3N spez will be a blast - literally.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 13, 2019)

@UntilThen RE my post about experience with the EL12 Spez, I did reply saying that I did not mean to say I was the pioneer. We both agree there and I already edited my post right away after noticing it had came across as otherwise. What I was referring to had more to do with that at times over the recent 1-2 years I had felt that my praise of this tube was overlooked, such as when I said I often preferred it to the EL32 last year. So we've already been on the same page really.

@Xcalibur255 Yup in my experience the EL12 Spez was it being moderately bright-leaning, yet still fairly linear and detailed with a great FR... not to mention liquid, smooth and luscious sound overall! And indeed as that was on the F.A. amps not configured for it, YMMV a lot on a custom Glenn amp for them, so my experience may not translate the same over here. OTOH, for not only myself but AFAIK everybody who has tried the 'normal' EL12 tubes (without top cap), it has a superbly balanced FR including perfect balance of bass body as well as mids through highs as well, and a very natural / organic ice sound. The difference I noticed is the Spez version was more detailed / fast and even more resolving, (and brighter but I'd say that can change if up to spec). I wonder if the normal EL12s can be used in the EL12 Spez socket, just without the top cap. If so that would give even better fune tuning options for an EL12 configured amp.

EDIT: The above impressions of normal EL12 were based on my experience with the EL12 mfg. by "Valvo" which to me are quite preferrable, and are also reportedly identical to Tungsram EL12; the RFT and Telefunken 'normal' EL12 being brighter than Valvo & Tungsram, which most prefer so far. I have experience with all of the above.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Problem is as soon as I get another Verite Closed, Zach will produce a planar.   Ho ho ho.





Zachik said:


> My thought exactly!



There will always be new headphones being released. Its the nature of business. If you want to wait for a proprietary ZMF planar,I dont blame you. Im looking forward to it as well,if indeed it ever sees the light of day( I believe it will). However if you go back and watch my VO review,you will hear me say things that you guys who own it,can now hear for yourself. The VC takes it up to another level of musical enjoyment,and that coming from a guy who prefers open-backs.


----------



## Deyan

DecentLevi said:


> @UntilThen RE my post about experience with the EL12 Spez, I did reply saying that I did not mean to say I was the pioneer. We both agree there and I already edited my post right away after noticing it had came across as otherwise. What I was referring to had more to do with that at times over the recent 1-2 years I had felt that my praise of this tube was overlooked, such as when I said I often preferred it to the EL32 last year. So we've already been on the same page really.
> 
> @Xcalibur255 Yup in my experience the EL12 Spez was it being moderately bright-leaning, yet still fairly linear and detailed with a great FR... not to mention liquid, smooth and luscious sound overall! And indeed as that was on the F.A. amps not configured for it, YMMV a lot on a custom Glenn amp for them, so my experience may not translate the same over here. OTOH, for not only myself but AFAIK everybody who has tried the 'normal' EL12 tubes (without top cap), it has a superbly balanced FR including perfect balance of bass body as well as mids through highs as well, and a very natural / organic ice sound. The difference I noticed is the Spez version was more detailed / fast and even more resolving, (and brighter but I'd say that can change if up to spec). I wonder if the normal EL12s can be used in the EL12 Spez socket, just without the top cap. If so that would give even better fune tuning options for an EL12 configured amp.



Well you can't use a normal EL12 in a EL12spez socket. But I can make it work


----------



## mordy

Well, I am waiting for a lower priced ZMF which apparently is something that may be planned. Looks are important, but I am willing to forgo the beautiful wood cups for an inexpensive material, as long as it does not impact the sound.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> There will always be new headphones being released. Its the nature of business.


I know. Doesn't mean I cannot complain (as I pay for yet another ZMF piece of art)  



Monsterzero said:


> The VC takes it up to another level of musical enjoyment,and that coming from a guy who prefers open-backs.


I think in my sub-conscious, I already know that I will be getting one...


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 13, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> There will always be new headphones being released. Its the nature of business. If you want to wait for a proprietary ZMF planar,I dont blame you. Im looking forward to it as well,if indeed it ever sees the light of day( I believe it will). However if you go back and watch my VO review,you will hear me say things that you guys who own it,can now hear for yourself. The VC takes it up to another level of musical enjoyment,and that coming from a guy who prefers open-backs.



I was kidding when I mentioned about the planar. My decision making is for the present moment because in a year’s time I might feel the itch to scratch the Blue Hawaii and Stax SR-009 or I might just feel that I have to tick other bucket list such as flying solo across the Atlantic or live in the Antarctic for a year.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 13, 2019)

Hi would someone mind to tell me what a reading like this means for a KT66 tube? (fair, good, excellent?) Thanks.

"(73/5.2 ON THE AVO) QUAD II AMPLIFIER"

EDIT: the seller replied and this means it measures above the manufacturers specification. Completed my pair of GEC KT66 now. These are huge and look amazing! Will post a pic of them both together when received.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> I think in my sub-conscious, I already know that I will be getting one...



No in your sub-conscious mind, you're going to buy the Verite Closed LTD in my choice of wood and send it to me for Christmas. So thank you in advance.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Well, I am waiting for a lower priced ZMF which apparently is something that may be planned. Looks are important, but I am willing to forgo the beautiful wood cups for an inexpensive material, as long as it does not impact the sound.



It will impact the sound. Only Verite have the beryllium element and it's the magic stuff that makes it sound wonderful, with Zach master tuning skills of course.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> The 6 volt tubes are up there now.  This one is a 12v and cost peanuts
> Hope the 6 volt guys never figure out how to use external heat!!
> 
> Also Joe was listening to some RL Burnside last night and it occurred to me, you might really dig RL Burnside.  Are you familiar with him (he is a blues guy from No Mississippi)?




Mine are all 12 volt tubes also.

Yes I do like RL Burnside.
I have a live album burnside on burnside ans a few studio albums from early nineties and up.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 13, 2019)

mordy said:


> Well, I am waiting for a lower priced ZMF which apparently is something that may be planned. Looks are important, but I am willing to forgo the beautiful wood cups for an inexpensive material, as long as it does not impact the sound.



I am assuming that you are looking for a high impedance headphone that does not cost an arm and a leg. If you are not against a planar headphone try a ZMF Ori.
If you can find a nice used ZMF Ori .....it is a killer headphone when driven properly. I have seen used for around $575-$650
Unreal the sound Zach got from this Fostex driver.

Listening to mine now and man the wonderful sub bass with the GEL3N amp is sooooo addicting.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> There will always be new headphones being released. Its the nature of business. If you want to wait for a proprietary ZMF planar,I dont blame you. Im looking forward to it as well,if indeed it ever sees the light of day( I believe it will). However if you go back and watch my VO review,you will hear me say things that you guys who own it,can now hear for yourself. The VC takes it up to another level of musical enjoyment,and that coming from a guy who prefers open-backs.



I really hope that a new planar from Zach happens.....I am preparing as if it will.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Nice. Maybe I should just sell the HD800 and LCD-3f and buy a Verite Close to pair with Verite Open. I like the Verite Open so much. It’s inconceivable that I will like Verite Open so much but I do. Music just sound so good and enjoyable with it.


Buy the VC and you can donate you 800 and LCD-3 to your friends here.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Buy the VC and you can donate you 800 and LCD-3 to your friends here.



I might actually. I know who's the deserving one.


----------



## UntilThen

Meanwhile the Cossor 53ku is sounding so good. This I can't donate away. Or the GEC U52. First time a tube means so much to me and they are rectifiers !!! Had I known, my GOTL would have a tube rectifier instead.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I might actually. I know who's the deserving one.


Yup.

You can put both of your hands on your VO to close it. You get a VC!


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Meanwhile the Cossor 53ku is sounding so good. This I can't donate away. Or the GEC U52. First time a tube means so much to me and they are rectifiers !!! Had I known, my GOTL would have a tube rectifier instead.



Those are both great sounding rectifiers...very hard to pick one over the other for me...great having both.

I was going to wait until this evening and roll in the EL37 for the weekend, but rolled it this morning instead.
As expected, this is a phenomenal tube. The Ori is well powered and sounds as good as it ever has. Mullard GZ32 in rectifier position.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Yup.
> 
> You can put both of your hands on your VO to close it. You get a VC!



Brilliant idea !!! But I have no one to disturb here. It can be as open as possible. In fact I use the speakers occasionally - Sansui au-717 driving Axis Voicebox S. The neighbours approved. They wanted to buy my amps and headphones !!!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Those are both great sounding rectifiers...very hard to pick one over the other for me...great having both.
> 
> I was going to wait until this evening and roll in the EL37 for the weekend, but rolled it this morning instead.
> As expected, this is a phenomenal tube. The Ori is well powered and sounds as good as it ever has. Mullard GZ32 in rectifier position.



Omg first time I'm green with envy. How about we switch amps? Your GEL3N for my Studio Six. If I had your amp, I could go overboard buying those power tubes.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Brilliant idea !!! But I have no one to disturb here. It can be as open as possible. In fact I use the speakers occasionally - Sansui au-717 driving Axis Voicebox S. The neighbours approved. They wanted to buy my amps and headphones !!!


No, we are not talking about disturbing your roommates.
 "The  tone of the VO,and want more detail,more treble energy,and more meat,you will love the 'VC'"


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> No, we are not talking about disturbing your roommates.
> "The  tone of the VO,and want more detail,more treble energy,and more meat,you will love the 'VC'"



I'm not convinced. Send me the Verite Closed and I'll be the judge of that. I'll be the jury and executioner too.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Omg first time I'm green with envy. How about we switch amps? Your GEL3N for my Studio Six. If I had your amp, I could go overboard buying those power tubes.



Can you use different powers in your Studio Six ?

All of these tubes sound great, but they all cost more than EL3N .
The EL3N is the best bang for the buck....but I have enough of them to last a lifetime, so why not something new.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Can you use different powers in your Studio Six ?
> 
> All of these tubes sound great, but they all cost more than EL3N .
> The EL3N is the best bang for the buck....but I have enough of them to last a lifetime, so why not something new.



Thomas Martin, designer of Studio Six is very conservative. He doesn't approve other power tubes. Also for rectifiers, he only advised using GZ34. Said the amp is designed for that. But being UntilThen, I've to use GEC U52 and Cossor 53ku and Tom doesn't know what he's missing. 

Whilst it's very interesting to see you experiment with other power tubes, I'm very content with what the SS is producing. It's end game seriously. The guy who sold the SS to me is into serious high end HiFi, as evidence by his home setup and he told me the SS is end game as far as headphone amps is concerned to his ears.

But seriously what is end game? There ain't no end until the fat lady sings.


----------



## whirlwind

He is absolutely right...at a certain point one could easily say this is all I ever need.

Truth be told...I could live with the GS-X mk2 and never look back...it is that good with all of my headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

Too true. Given what you have Joe, you've already arrived ! Just kick back and enjoy the music. Both your tube amps will give the GS-X a run for it's money. Somehow I prefer my tube amps over Ragnarok and the 2 recently heard SS amps - Auralic Taurus Mk2 and Audio Gd Master 9.

Guess I just prefer the tone of tubes !


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> Thomas Martin, designer of Studio Six is very conservative. He doesn't approve other power tubes. Also for rectifiers, he only advised using GZ34. Said the amp is designed for that. But being UntilThen, I've to use GEC U52 and Cossor 53ku and Tom doesn't know what he's missing.
> 
> Whilst it's very interesting to see you experiment with other power tubes, I'm very content with what the SS is producing. It's end game seriously. The guy who sold the SS to me is into serious high end HiFi, as evidence by his home setup and he told me the SS is end game as far as headphone amps is concerned to his ears.
> 
> But seriously what is end game? There ain't no end until the fat lady sings.



Btw when I say SS, I mean Studio Six not solid state.


----------



## lukeap69

GOTL (my Darna) ruined me. I don't lust for any other amp anymore.


----------



## UntilThen

Having live with GOTL and Woo Audio WA5 le with the best tubes, I can tell you GOTL presents itself very well. Both different tonally and for my preference, I actually prefer the dynamic and tight tones of GOTL. Even now having live with GOTL and Studio Six for a month, I'm still very surprised how well GOTL competes with a very well executed amp that had 2 years in R&D and a professional engineer designer.

My only problem is why GOTL? Why did it not have a better name? GOTL sounds like Gotham to me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Meanwhile the Cossor 53ku is sounding so good. This I can't donate away. Or the GEC U52. First time a tube means so much to me and they are rectifiers !!! Had I known, my GOTL would have a tube rectifier instead.



Maybe you should have gotten the USA Transformer too:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1766#post-14964495

.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> The choice of driver and power tubes for a customised amp depends on 3 main criteria as far as I am concerned
> 
> 1. How good they sound.
> 2. How reliable they are.
> ...


My enthusiasm for following you into the EL12 rabbit hole is cooling off on my end because I have concerns about #2 and #3.  Mostly #2 actually from what I have been reading.  I have had enough heartache from things going wrong in this hobby, I don't need more tubes and amps blowing up on me.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Having live with GOTL and Woo Audio WA5 le with the best tubes, I can tell you GOTL presents itself very well. Both different tonally and for my preference, I actually prefer the dynamic and tight tones of GOTL. Even now having live with GOTL and Studio Six for a month, I'm still very surprised how well GOTL competes with a very well executed amp that had 2 years in R&D and a professional engineer designer.
> 
> My only problem is why GOTL? Why did it not have a better name? GOTL sounds like Gotham to me.


Glenn’s amps sell without any fancy names.


Xcalibur255 said:


> My enthusiasm for following you into the EL12 rabbit hole is cooling off on my end because I have concerns about #2 and #3.  Mostly #2 actually from what I have been reading.  I have had enough heartache from things going wrong in this hobby, I don't need more tubes and amps blowing up on me.


That is why I mentioned the EL12N which seems to be very reliable, albeit not as good sounding in the applications I tried it in. On the other hand, maybe a circuit optimized for this tube will bring out a sound similar to the EL12/Spez - just guessing......
The EL12 Spezial may be just as reliable - some of the bad experiences people had came from an unscrupulous seller that sold heavily used ones as NOS.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I feel like what I'm really looking for is still out there and I haven't stumbled upon it yet.

I do think a non-spez EL12 built would be a great candidate for a combo amp that does both headphones and speakers.  It would probably sound a lot like the EL3N just with a bit more headroom and bit different tonal flavor.

I've just become weary of having to track down rare tubes and then make sure there's nothing wrong with them.  Some people really enjoy it as part of the hobby.  I can't say I do anymore.  I would make the effort for something really special like the 10 maybe, but that's about it.  There's the ultimate 300B amp.  10 driver to 300B output.  I shouldn't say that though I know DHTs in the driver stage are a ton of work for Glenn so I shouldn't tempt somebody to say they want one.


----------



## A2029

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'm glad to see you pop in here.  Myself and others always enjoy the opportunity to learn more about how this stuff works.
> 
> So the switch is raising plate voltage from 250 to 275?  I'm guessing with the CCS the plate current goes up as well?  Increasing voltage without increasing the current as well would seem to be counter-productive to me.



The switch will change the B+ voltage from around 235V to 265V. So as not to derail this thread I've created another thread that we can discuss constant current sink OTL bias and am happy to discuss: www.head-fi.org/threads/constant-current-sink-otl-bias.915044/


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Glenn’s amps sell without any fancy names.



I think you misunderstood me there. I wasn't referring to fancy names. I was referring to a name. Just like each one of us has a name and not a number.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I feel like what I'm really looking for is still out there and I haven't stumbled upon it yet.
> 
> I do think a non-spez EL12 built would be a great candidate for a combo amp that does both headphones and speakers.  It would probably sound a lot like the EL3N just with a bit more headroom and bit different tonal flavor.
> 
> I've just become weary of having to track down rare tubes and then make sure there's nothing wrong with them.  Some people really enjoy it as part of the hobby.  I can't say I do anymore.  I would make the effort for something really special like the 10 maybe, but that's about it.  There's the ultimate 300B amp.  10 driver to 300B output.  I shouldn't say that though I know DHTs in the driver stage are a ton of work for Glenn so I shouldn't tempt somebody to say they want one.



I wish you the best in your quest for your next amp. Being able to conceive and decide on the tubes to use is half the fun. Not that the tubes alone is the all important factor on how an amp turns out. The implementation is more important but you would know that already and Glenn turns out great sounding amps. There's no doubt about that.

I need to clarity about number 2 criteria - reliability. I wasn't referring to the EL tubes long term reliability. I was referring to finding tubes that do not hum and are not noisy. In the past, I have purchased used EL12, EL12 spez, albeit nearly new and some of them turn out to be noisy without cure and have base that comes loose easily. Perhaps the pins grip the sockets tightly and a hard yank to get the tubes out might dislodge the base from the glass.

Lately, the recent batch of NOS NIB EL11, EL12 spez tubes that I purchased have been perfect. Well from the few hours I've tried they have been perfect. I wouldn't know the long term reliability for tubes made a long time ago but I expect them to last a long time.

The EL11 / EL12 spez was to be a once off and personal project for me. If I didn't have enough good EL tubes already procured, I wouldn't have decided to go ahead with this. A customised build is a substantial monetary outlay but Glenn is so reasonable with his pricing. Sometimes I feel he builds the amps for the love of it. Again you already know that with your 45 built. I'm sure you have great joy with that amp even to this day.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh @Xcalibur255 a little acknowledgement here necessary. Thanks for your enthusiasm and great ideas always. It's been a joy to read your contributions all the time.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> The caps I use are like the one on this adapter I made



Well, Glenn...doesn't look like there's much to worry about with those caps covering so nicely. No need for any paranoia as far as I'm concerned lol! ...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Well, Glenn...doesn't look like there's much to worry about with those caps covering so nicely. No need for any paranoia as far as I'm concerned lol! ...



That adapter made by Glenn is really good on closer examination. I thought my made in Poland adapter for Tung Sol 6f8g is very well made but Glenn's adapter with the cap covering fully is perfect.

This tube is part of a NOS pair I bought. This is basically a Tung Sol 6sn7gt bgrp tone in a different glass. Tonally they sound similar to me. I'm harbouring a lot of nice tubes for I don't know when.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I think you misunderstood me there. I wasn't referring to fancy names. I was referring to a name. Just like each one of us has a name and not a number.


What's wrong with G0TL - it even has a number in it!


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> What's wrong with G0TL - it even has a number in it!



It's a difference of opinion. We can agree to disagree. I don't see the need to drag this on.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Btw when I say SS, I mean Studio Six not solid state.



Yeah, I knew what you meant.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> It's a difference of opinion. We can agree to disagree. I don't see the need to drag this on.


And I thought I was funny.....Sorry - no intention to disagree. We could use a better and more catchy name. Sometimes I think of my amp as the Glenn Super 9.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Those are both great sounding rectifiers...very hard to pick one over the other for me...great having both.
> 
> I was going to wait until this evening and roll in the EL37 for the weekend, but rolled it this morning instead.
> As expected, this is a phenomenal tube. The Ori is well powered and sounds as good as it ever has. Mullard GZ32 in rectifier position.



Does the EL37 sound better then the EL3N??


----------



## JazzVinyl

Xcalibur255 said:


> I feel like what I'm really looking for is still out there and I haven't stumbled upon it yet.
> 
> I do think a non-spez EL12 built would be a great candidate for a combo amp that does both headphones and speakers.  It would probably sound a lot like the EL3N just with a bit more headroom and bit different tonal flavor.
> 
> I've just become weary of having to track down rare tubes and then make sure there's nothing wrong with them.  Some people really enjoy it as part of the hobby.  I can't say I do anymore.  I would make the effort for something really special like the 10 maybe, but that's about it.  There's the ultimate 300B amp.  10 driver to 300B output.  I shouldn't say that though I know DHTs in the driver stage are a ton of work for Glenn so I shouldn't tempt somebody to say they want one.



Agree
EL12 is probably a better idea.  Nixes the potential to expose lethal voltages via the EL12spez cap.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Agree
> EL12 is probably a better idea.  Nixes the potential to expose lethal voltages via the EL12spez cap.



Not for me it only hearts for a second.


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> AFAIK everybody who has tried the 'normal' EL12 tubes (without top cap), it has a superbly balanced FR including perfect balance of bass body as well as mids through highs as well, and a very natural / organic ice sound.



Have a question about your EL12 impression above DL..

"very natural / organic ice sound"

Should have been "organic / nice"  ?

If so, this was using it as a driver?


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Not for me it only hearts for a second.



Hahahaha! 

Hope everyone else can let GO as quick as you can, Glenn!


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 13, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Does the EL37 sound better then the EL3N??



Most would probably say so...and I believe they do...but you can buy like 4 EL3N tubes for the price of one EL37
4 Tubes is a whole set for your EL3N amp.

The EL37 is better, but not 4 times better.

Glenn, I would think that you will be selling more of these amps in the future.

Plenty of power for most any headphone...can change up the sound with some very good tubes if you wish, and the tubes are not being pushed hard at all.


----------



## DecentLevi

It was a typo, I meant to say organic natural sound and that was as powers


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> And I thought I was funny.....Sorry - no intention to disagree. We could use a better and more catchy name. Sometimes I think of my amp as the *Glenn Super 9*.



Haha when you slam dunk the exclamation mark I should have known you were being funny. 

By the way, I have trademark on 'Glenn Super 9' so no infringement please.

and yes I was being funny.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Glenn, I would think that you will be selling more of these amps in the future.



Glenn needs to start a factory now and I will oversee production and prototypes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Getting some serious synergy between the GOTL and the turntable!
Add EL32's adapted to the C3g sockets, and you get a widened sound stage, and a vast array of "textures" in the instruments.  
Crazy great stuff in my high imp cans.




Try it, if ya got 'em!


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> It was a typo, I meant to say organic natural sound and that was as powers



No problem, from your description, was expecting you to say they were in the driver positions.  Who was driving?


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Hahahaha!
> 
> Hope everyone else can let GO as quick as you can, Glenn!



Yea but will they live?? I will!!!


JazzVinyl said:


> Hahahaha!
> 
> Hope everyone else can let GO as quick as you can, Glenn!





JazzVinyl said:


> Hahahaha!
> 
> Hope everyone else can let GO as quick as you can, Glenn!



After you get hit from the DC buss voltage in a 40,000 watt frequency drive these amps are minor.
750 volts to the 3 amplifiers that put out 480 volts 3 phase at 52 amps. The transistors are 1200 volt at 150 amps.
Should make a sub woofer amp out of these transistors. I do have some 1200 volt 600amp transistors for 100,000 watt drives
for 150 horse power motors.
This is what I do during the day during the day.


----------



## UntilThen

Joe, perhaps try this tube next. I won't be going down that path but I will live vicariously through you and your wallet. This tube is not very expensive.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> After you get hit from the DC buss voltage in a 40,000 watt frequency drive these amps are minor.
> 750 volts to the 3 amplifiers that put out 480 volts 3 phase at 52 amps. The transistors are 1200 volt at 150 amps.
> Should make a sub woofer amp out of these transistors. I do have some 1200 volt 600amp transistors for 100,000 watt drives
> for 150 horse power motors.
> This is what I do during the day during the day.



Sounds like one of those crazy Japanese TV game shows!


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Joe, perhaps try this tube next. I won't be going down that path but I will live vicariously through you and your wallet. This tube is not very expensive.



These are sweep tubes for TVs might sound OK?  EL509/6KG6 are used in 200 watt Marshal guitar amps they are sweep tubes too.
I wouldn't spend to much on adapters for them.
Might better get a adapter to use the EL12spez and see how that sounds.
Inquiring minds want to know!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> These are sweep tubes for TVs might sound OK?  EL509/6KG6 are used in 200 watt Marshal guitar amps they are sweep tubes too.
> I wouldn't spend to much on adapters for them.
> Might better get a adapter to use the EL12spez and see how that sounds.
> Inquiring minds want to know!!!!!



Ha ! It's a light bulb moment for me !!!  Glenn, you sure the EL12 spez will work in Joe's amp? I don't want to see a 4th of July. 

Joe, please try the EL12 spez in your amp. I can send a pair of Telefunken EL12 spez tubes across to you to try but you have to get the adapters. And the tubes have to come back to me.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Joe, perhaps try this tube next. I won't be going down that path but I will live vicariously through you and your wallet. This tube is not very expensive.



I am going to try to stay with what will work in the adapters that I have......maybe some KT66...call it a day and hope Zach makes a new planar


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Might better get a adapter to use the EL12spez and see how that sounds.
> Inquiring minds want to know!!!!!



As drivers in the C3g sockets?


----------



## 2359glenn

Oh they will work just don't know the sound. Not that different from a EL34 just a little more powerful.
Maybe the post will screw up and deliver them to me on the return trip


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Oh they will work just don't know the sound. Not that different from a EL34 just a little more powerful.
> Maybe the post will screw up and deliver them to me on the return trip



Ok no problem. After Joe listens to the tubes, he can send the EL12 spez to you for further confirmation. I could also send a pair of Telefunken EL11 together.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Not that different from a EL34* just a little more powerful*.



Are you kidding me?


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 13, 2019)

Anything that helps and will use my same adapters I am all for  

My plan is to have Deyan make me more adapters so I do not have to yank tubes into and out of them. Would like to stay to this one adapter, since i will be needing a few sets.

I am in no need for more power for my headphones. i have plenty of power for most any headphone and I do not use speakers.
That makes running these tubes easier may make them last longer...at least this is my thinking.

I really want to try my Atticus soon, but loving the planars at the moment.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Anything that helps and will use my same adapters I am all for
> 
> My plan is to have Deyan make me more adapters so I do not have to yank tubes into and out of them. Would like to stay to this one adapter, since i will be needing a few sets.
> 
> ...



It will need different adapters but you'll be remembered and immortalised. 

It's not about power for the sake of power. If you are offered the choice of a Rolls Royce Phantom or a Mini Cooper to complete the entire Route 66, the decision is a given.


----------



## UntilThen

No pressure. If you rather not, I'll send EL11 and EL12 spez to Glenn so he can listen and enjoy his cup of tea or perhaps something stronger.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 13, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> No problem, from your description, was expecting you to say they were in the driver positions.  Who was driving?


I've tried EL12s as both drivers and powers and the tone remains the same. Though the EL11 is designated as drivers, I sometimes prefer the 12s as drivers for a slightly more laid back tone than as powers.

Drivers were usually Valvo EL11 or RCA 6N7 black metal tubes. Fantastic synergy.

I agree that all of EL12N, EL12 Spez and normal EL12 (specifically of the RFT / Telefunken brands) are somewhat on the bright/lean side; the more neutral and organic sound most people love are from the normal EL11 & EL12 of the Valvo or Tungsram brand. And again results may vary on a properly configured amp as this were the results from both from my F.A. amps.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Oh @Xcalibur255 a little acknowledgement here necessary. Thanks for your enthusiasm and great ideas always. It's been a joy to read your contributions all the time.



That's nice of you to say and I appreciate you saying it.  I'm not sure whether I deserve it or not.  I had become quite convinced that I was a nuisance who comes off as a downer and a know-it-all who clearly does NOT know it all.  My enthusiasm, and thus my presence, tends to wax and wane.  Mostly because I take setbacks very very hard and there have been a string of setbacks.

This group of people is nothing short of amazing.  Generous, open-minded, collaborative and supportive.  You feed each other's enthusiasm in a positive way.  I stopped participating here because I wanted to spare you all from the negativity I tend to fall into, and I came back because I'm hoping all of the great positivity that's always in here will pull me back to the right side of this hobby.

So, thanks for letting me be here guys.


----------



## UntilThen

I sat at the Cafe drinking my cuppacino and devouring my ham and cheese croissant while pondering your very profound reply.

Never for a moment did I think you were ever negative. Don’t worry about the invitation. I came here uninvited and the post counts getting ridiculous!!! I hope they reset it. 

Yup it’s a crazy and fun group here but everyone is very passionate about this hobby. That’s why I am here. It’s a fun group.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Are you kidding me?



They can take higher voltage meaning more power


DecentLevi said:


> I've tried EL12s as both drivers and powers and the tone remains the same. Though the EL11 is designated as drivers, I sometimes prefer the 12s as drivers for a slightly more laid back tone than as powers.
> 
> Drivers were usually Valvo EL11 or RCA 6N7 black metal tubes. Fantastic synergy.
> 
> I agree that all of EL12N, EL12 Spez and normal EL12 (specifically of the RFT / Telefunken brands) are somewhat on the bright/lean side; the more neutral and organic sound most people love are from the normal EL11 & EL12 of the Valvo or Tungsram brand. And again results may vary on a properly configured amp as this were the results from both from my F.A. amps.



This amp will be very different from a FA amp. It will be made for these tubes and if a EL11 is the same tube as a EL3N it should sound great as a driver.
The EL3N is a mellow tube and the amp will be having a CCS for the plate load. 
I have no Idea how the EL12spez sounds in a proper circuit with a output transformer. This will be running it in the circuit that it was made fore not a cathode follower.
But I feel that it will sound great like many European tubes.
If I knew about all these European tubes I would never have made my 300B amps. These amps sound great but I lost many 300Bs with the filament burning out for no reason.
Spent thousands of dollars on 300Bs the TAKs are supposed to be the best now. But at over $2000 for a pair is crazy will not pay it.
The EL12spez is much cheaper and if they don't sound good still less money then 300Bs if I have to go to a KT88
These a lot less then one 300B.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-EL12spe...868281?hash=item4207edd3b9:g:XH8AAOSws8RdOG1b


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> It will need different adapters but you'll be remembered and immortalised.
> 
> It's not about power for the sake of power. If you are offered the choice of a Rolls Royce Phantom or a Mini Cooper to complete the entire Route 66, the decision is a given.



I really don't want to buy adapters because I don't see myself using these tubes..but again, I will help anyway that I can and use the adapters that I already have.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> They can take higher voltage meaning more power
> 
> 
> This amp will be very different from a FA amp. It will be made for these tubes and if a EL11 is the same tube as a EL3N it should sound great as a driver.
> ...



Hey don’t bid on those 2 pairs. I’m bidding on it !!! . ... seriously


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I really don't want to buy adapters because I don't see myself using these tubes..but again, I will help anyway that I can and use the adapters that I already have.



No problem Joe fully understand adapters lots of it will add up and then you have a drawer full of adapters.

I really don’t need to have proof of concept with the EL tubes because I have already had a glimpse of how they sound. It will be my preferred sound - a bit bright and airy without the glare plus I can tone down the brightness if necessary with a warm tube rectifier. With Verite I can imagine it will be my perfect sound signature.


----------



## gibosi

DecentLevi said:


> *Though the EL11 is designated as drivers*, I sometimes prefer the 12s as drivers for a slightly more laid back tone than as powers.



The EL11 and EL3N were not designed to be drivers. They were designed to be power/output tubes. That said, in the GOTL they are one of my favorite drivers, but again, these are much more powerful than a 6SN7 or similar driver.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> The EL11 and EL3N were not designed to be drivers. They were designed to be power/output tubes. That said, in the GOTL they are one of my favorite drivers, but again, these are much more powerful than a 6SN7 or similar driver.



Absolutely right. These are not designed specifically to be drivers but I love them to be driving EL12 because of the higher gain.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I tried the quad of EL38's in the Elise amp.  I thought it was very dark and gloomy.  At the time, they were all the rage on the FA thread.  Better, for me was EL32 as drivers and EL38 powers, but still thought the bottom was soft and mushy.  Regular 6SN7 Sylvania's were better, to bring some treble back.

Then, the FA crew went on, to EL39's...

It never ends.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I might actually. I know who's the deserving one.



Matt want to donate his LCD-3 and HD-800 in the near future. Please feel free to PM him.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 13, 2019)

Just came home after visiting the gentleman who sold me the Studio Six. He's now become a friend. Bought the rest of his tubes - Philips JAN 6v6gt with blue lettering, Mullard OB2 and a Ken Rad 6sn7gt almost new.

Whilst there, he let me listen to his HiFi system consisting of an active pair of Australian made SGR floor standing speakers. Room acoustics better than a recording studio. Roon software with SOTM 200 end point. Listen to an audiophile recording by Martha Gomez - Cielito Lindo. This is HiFi at it's best. No wonder he gave up his Studio Six. It's easy to give up head-fi setup when you have this kind of SQ. It's surreal.

This is the album.



But now listening to the same song that I've on my hard drive using JRiver 24 with Verite and Studio Six with the Ken Rad 6sn7 and new 6V6, it's pretty good.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Matt want to donate his LCD-3 and HD-800 in the near future. Please feel free to PM him.



No I don't entertain PMs.


----------



## UntilThen

I once receive a PM from an organ master asking me to recommend him a pair of headphones that is best for grand organ music.   I haven't got a clue. Maybe I'll sell him my LCD-3f. That should be good for organ music.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I once receive a PM from an organ master asking me to recommend him a pair of headphones that is best for grand organ music.   I haven't got a clue. Maybe I'll sell him my LCD-3f. That should be good for organ music.


 I believe he messaged me as well. It gives me a good feeling to be able to help people just getting started in this hobby,but I had no clue as to what would sound good direct from an organ.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I once receive a PM from an organ master asking me to recommend him a pair of headphones that is best for grand organ music.   I haven't got a clue. Maybe I'll sell him my LCD-3f. That should be good for organ music.





Monsterzero said:


> I believe he messaged me as well. It gives me a good feeling to be able to help people just getting started in this hobby,but I had no clue as to what would sound good direct from an organ.



I would say a prerequisite for an organ headphone would be SUB-BASS.  Pipe organ can produce frequencies well below 20Hz, so your headphone better go to 20Hz!


----------



## UntilThen

Ha ! I found my version of organ music. Testing Verite Open with this. Not bad  !


----------



## UntilThen

Audeze LCD-3f is much better for that organ music. Sub-bass is the LCD3 strength.


----------



## attmci (Sep 13, 2019)

What's wrong?

This sounds great on my cans,

youtu.be/KhhfV3L3sJ8


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> This sounds great on my cans,



It sounds great on my Apple earpod. What's your cans?


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> What's wrong?
> 
> This sounds great on my cans,
> 
> youtu.be/KhhfV3L3sJ8



Something wrong with your organ. The music suddenly disappeared !!!


----------



## attmci (Sep 14, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> It sounds great on my Apple earpod. What's your cans?


Much cheaper than that.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Ha ! I found my version of organ music. Testing Verite Open with this. Not bad  !




I have that soundtrack. Its quite good,but then again I havent heard too much from Hans Zimmer that I dont like.

A couple other soundtracks that are great for headphones are:


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> This amp will be very different from a FA amp. It will be made for these tubes and if a EL11 is the same tube as a EL3N it should sound great as a driver.
> The EL3N is a mellow tube and the amp will be having a CCS for the plate load.
> I have no Idea how the EL12spez sounds in a proper circuit with a output transformer. This will be running it in the circuit that it was made fore not a cathode follower.
> But I feel that it will sound great like many European tubes.
> ...



Let me digest what you wrote. Basically what you're saying is that Berlin is quite a safe bet. 

I can tell you that EL12 spez and Tak 300b are very different in tone. It's like Samson and Delilah. EL12 spez is agile, fleet footed, youthful brightness and speedy. Taks 300b is bulbous, full throttle and slightly warmer - think Pavarotti.

Which you select for this year's New Year's Eve performance depends on what you want them to sing.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> I once receive a PM from an organ master asking me to recommend him a pair of headphones that is best for grand organ music.   I haven't got a clue. Maybe I'll sell him my LCD-3f. That should be good for organ music.



That's honestly not a bad idea.  Organs don't sound right without a lot of energy in the bottom octave.  The LCD-2/3/4 and the Abyss are probably the first choices I would try for this job.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Monster for the Blade Runner 2049. I first saw the original Blade Runner in 1982 starring Harrison Ford, music by Vangelis. Which do you prefer?


----------



## Monsterzero

Xcalibur255 said:


> The LCD-2/3/4 and the Abyss are probably the first choices I would try for this job.


The organ dude wanted to drive a headphone directly from the organ itself. That pretty much eliminates the above headphones.



UntilThen said:


> Thanks Monster for the Blade Runner 2049. I first saw the original Blade Runner in 1982 starring Harrison Ford, music by Vangelis. Which do you prefer?


 I own and love both,but its tough to beat the original,either on film,or sound. That being said theres some sub bass in the new one that will challenge most every headphone known to man. I personally think parts of the soundtrack are brick walled.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> No problem Joe fully understand adapters lots of it will add up and then you have a drawer full of adapters.
> 
> I really don’t need to have proof of concept with the EL tubes because I have already had a glimpse of how they sound. It will be my preferred sound - a bit bright and airy without the glare plus I can tone down the brightness if necessary with a warm tube rectifier. With Verite I can imagine it will be my perfect sound signature.




Yeah, you know these tubes have the tone that you like....what could be better than having a custom amp built around your favorite tubes...answer is nothing  

Just let Glenn do what he thinks is best, and I am sure you will be a very happy man.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Let me digest what you wrote. Basically what you're saying is that Berlin is quite a safe bet.
> 
> I can tell you that EL12 spez and Tak 300b are very different in tone. It's like Samson and Delilah. EL12 spez is agile, fleet footed, youthful brightness and speedy. Taks 300b is bulbous, full throttle and slightly warmer - think Pavarotti.
> 
> Which you select for this year's New Year's Eve performance depends on what you want them to sing.


You were comparing AJ to OJ.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, you know these tubes have the tone that you like....what could be better than having a custom amp built around your favorite tubes...answer is nothing
> 
> Just let Glenn do what he thinks is best, and I am sure you will be a very happy man.



When Berlin is completed - that's some light years away - I'll have 3 very interesting tube amps. I'll be spoilt for choice. Today I found out ALO Audio Studio Six mission goal.... (that came from the Studio Six circuit designer or head huncho)

_When the Studio Six was being developed, a central goal was to design an amp which had such a high level of transparency and drive capability as to make it essentially an "obsolescence proof" piece of gear which could be purchased and then simply forgotten about as one enjoyed their music. I leave it up to users to judge the extent to which we met that mark.
_
Wow that's a powerful goal. So for the better part of today (after tennis) I sat listening to music using Studio Six with HD800 and then later LCD-3f. I did this because most in the Studio Six thread loves these headphones with the SS. At the end of 3 hours, I share those users sentiments. In a moment of reckoning, I knew these headphones are staying !!! You hear that @attmci ? HD800 and LCD-3f saved from the gallows at the last minute. They will get the full presidential pardon and restore to full citizens' headphones rights. In other words they go back on their headphone stands instead of being packed away in their boxes and send to North Pole.

So I sat here deep in thoughts, pondering what the mission goal for Berlin is. Don't know the answer yet. I'll think about it.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> You were comparing AJ to OJ.



Can you be a bit more transparent? AJ to OJ?


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> When Berlin is completed - that's some light years away - I'll have 3 very interesting tube amps. I'll be spoilt for choice. Today I found out ALO Audio Studio Six mission goal.... (that came from the Studio Six circuit designer or head huncho)
> 
> _When the Studio Six was being developed, a central goal was to design an amp which had such a high level of transparency and drive capability as to make it essentially an "obsolescence proof" piece of gear which could be purchased and then simply forgotten about as one enjoyed their music. I leave it up to users to judge the extent to which we met that mark.
> _
> ...


That's before you VC arrives. 

The ALO amp don't use xlrs, but has a bunch of holes at the front. 

I believe they were selling $800 cable for HD 800 in old days. I know how those cables worth now.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Can you be a bit more transparent? AJ to OJ?


Apple (juice) to O(j). I promise I won't say anything today.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Apple (juice) to O(j). I promise I won't say anything today.



I thought you were talking about OJ Simpson. Don't promise too soon because I'll make you talk.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> That's before you VC arrives.
> 
> The ALO amp don't use xlrs, but has a bunch of holes at the front.
> 
> I believe they were selling $800 cable for HD 800 in old days. I know how those cables worth now.



Firstly, VC's arrival doesn't change anything. The 3 headphones will co-exist. Secondly, no self respecting tube amps will be xlr balanced and the holes in front are bonus, for me to plug in all 3 headphones with a slot to spare. Thirdly my Forza Audioworks HD800 cable cost only $300. I don't pay for $800 cables. That's too extravagant.


----------



## UntilThen

Good news. Project Berlin will start in January of 2020. That's what the boss told me. The boss is Glenn, the designer extraordinaire of Berlin. Barring any unforeseen circumstances, Berlin will commenced using Telefunken EL11 / EL12 spez NOS tubes, full size Lundahl transformers as used in the 300b amp, to provide the 425 voltage for full electrocution.  

Ah it will have speakers out binding posts as well for some high efficiency speakers like maybe the Zu Omens.


----------



## UntilThen

No more buying tube rectifiers as I don't know what rectifiers would be needed for this behemoth amp. Doesn't look that big to me.


----------



## UntilThen

Under the present circumstances, I shouldn't be needing another amp because the Studio Six is an end game SET amp but I can't pass up this opportunity because Berlin is even more exciting. There's nothing more exciting than a greenfield project and the anticipation of the end result. One thing I know is that if the designer is enthusiastic about the project, success is guaranteed. 

So bring it on. Bring It Home To Me - by Sam Cooke listening to it now. Verite is capable of any genre and it's wonderful listening to the beautiful voice of Sam Cooke. When I listen to him sing, 'What A Wonderful World', I'm really convinced that it's a wonderful world we live in.

'Don't much about history, don't know much about resistors, don't know much about capacitors, don't know much about transformers but I do know that I love you... what a wonderful world this could be'.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> No more buying tube rectifiers as I don't know what rectifiers would be needed for this behemoth amp. Doesn't look that big to me.



A 1000+ PIV  220 Ma rectifier will be fine meaning a 5U4 or GZ37 will be good

With Lundahl output transformers this amp will put most other amps to shame.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> A 1000+ PIV  220 Ma rectifier will be fine meaning a 5U4 or GZ37 will be good
> 
> With Lundahl output transformers this amp will put most other amps to shame.



Do you maintain a Turntable, Glenn?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> A 1000+ PIV  220 Ma rectifier will be fine meaning a 5U4 or GZ37 will be good
> 
> With Lundahl output transformers this amp will put most other amps to shame.



I love both the Cossor 53ku (fat bottle GZ37) and the GEC U52.

I hope that the GEC U52 is ok too? This is the specs for U52.
http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0507.htm

*The U52 is a very useful rectifier with its 250 mA current rating and PIV of 1,400 Volts.
*
Is the GEC U52 ok?


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Do you maintain a Turntable, Glenn?



Yes it is old but still works it is a Rabco ST7 in line tracking with a Ortofon moving coil cartridge.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm not sure about adding 2 volt meters. Is it an overkill visually? I must consult the visual designer - @L0rdGwyn . What do you think or do you have to consult your sister? 

Failing which I've to engage Jony Iver.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I love both the Cossor 53ku (fat bottle GZ37) and the GEC U52.
> 
> I hope that the GEC U52 is ok too? This is the specs for U52.
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0507.htm
> ...



The U52 will be perfect.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The U52 will be perfect.



Ha ! Happiness ! How about the 596 rectifier? Might as well go with wires and caps all the way haha. @Xcalibur255  will shudder at the thought of it.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes it is old but still works it is a Rabco ST7 in line tracking with a Ortofon moving coil cartridge.



So you still use a turntable? I use my Rega RP8 with Apheta mc cartridge occasionally but Yggdrasil is my work horse.


----------



## UntilThen

I could have sworn that I love the Cossor 53ku more than the GEC U52 in my Studio Six. The tone is more vibrant and punchy. This is contrary to others reports. Also in the Studio Six thread, most play cautious and go with the standard GZ34 but my experience is that the 53ku and U52 certainly sounds better to my ears than the Mullard GZ34 blackburn. Self discovery is expensive but it's the only way to find out what works best for me .... and so should you. You might get a different experience. Most likely will.


----------



## audiofest2018

UntilThen said:


> Ha ! I found my version of organ music. Testing Verite Open with this. Not bad  !



Just did with my Verite Open.   OMG!  Wish I have Glenn tube amp to pair with....


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> So you still use a turntable? I use my Rega RP8 with Apheta mc cartridge occasionally but Yggdrasil is my work horse.



But you said recently you were going to sell the table and all vinyl accessories:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1994#post-15172266

Hope your son is enjoying it!


----------



## UntilThen

audiofest2018 said:


> Just did with my Verite Open.   OMG!  Wish I have Glenn tube amp to pair with....



You are going to love Verite with GOTL. I couldn't think of an OTL amp at this price point (and even higher price point) that will give the level of satisfaction with Verite. I particularly love the mids. Everyone talks about the bass but to me the mids of Verite is what draws me like a magnet. Overall it's a very balance headphone though and you stop analysing the technicalities and just get on with enjoying your music. After all isn't this the main aim? - listening to music and enjoying it with a sweet sounding headphone and with GOTL, that takes it to the next level.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Yes it is old but still works it is a Rabco ST7 in line tracking with a Ortofon moving coil cartridge.



Hoping you still spin some vinyl.  Would like for to also test the new amp against a pure analog input.  I find the GOTL to favor vinyl.  And wonder if EL tubes might be a tad warm for vinyl (since it tends to be warmer than digital to start with).

Appreciate, Glenn!!


----------



## UntilThen

Further consultation with Glenn on Berlin and I learned that this is the same build as the 300b amp but with different tubes. I think his enthusiasm is greater than mine. What would I know. I have full faith in him. It will be the finale for me.  

Another note worthy aspect is that though the choice of tubes is significant, in a transformer coupled amp, the quality of transformers is more important than the tubes. This I learned from Glenn and the Lundahl transformers are as good as it gets.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 14, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I'm not sure about adding 2 volt meters. Is it an overkill visually? I must consult the visual designer - @L0rdGwyn . What do you think or do you have to consult your sister?



Here is my expert opinion...you can PM you credit card number whenever you are ready, I charge by the typed word 

I would say if they serve no practical purpose, then they are overkill visually.  Just my opinion of course!  I favor more minimalist designs, sleek and streamlined, I personally would not have voltmeters.

I also think those EL11 and EL12 tubes are very attractive, why detract from that, let them have the stage!

Also for the record, my sister thinks the Telefunken logo is "bomb", so there ya go (she actually gets paid to have an opinion on these things).


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is my expert opinion...you can PM you credit card number whenever you are ready, I charge by the typed word
> 
> I would say if they serve no practical purpose, then they are overkill visually.  Just my opinion of course!  I favor more minimalist designs, sleek and streamlined, I personally would not have voltmeters.
> 
> ...



I'm very impressed. I think you and your sister are better than Jony Iver.


----------



## UntilThen

I agree meters could be an overkill. Maybe I should find a Telefunken logo for the front.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I agree meters could be an overkill. Maybe I should find a Telefunken logo for the front.



That would be cool


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> That would be cool



Telefunken and Glenn Studio logo. 

@L0rdGwyn that’s your next task. It has to be outstanding and colour coordinated.


----------



## mordy

Here are a few samples of Telefunken logos:





















I kind of like the first one - now we need to talk to the the copyright lawyers.....


----------



## Xcalibur255

Monsterzero said:


> The organ dude wanted to drive a headphone directly from the organ itself. That pretty much eliminates the above headphones.


I guess it depends on whether or not it's a modern design with a headphone jack on it.  My digital piano has no problem powering headphones like the LCD-2.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Here are a few samples of Telefunken logos:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I like the T w/ lightning bolts. Replace the T w/ a G!

BTW Glenn,I want a that new logo on my amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> I'm not sure about adding 2 volt meters. Is it an overkill visually? I must consult the visual designer - @L0rdGwyn . What do you think or do you have to consult your sister?
> 
> Failing which I've to engage Jony Iver.


Unless the output tubes use manual bias, in which case DC current meters are a must, I think meters are a thing that sound cool at first but stop getting paid attention to quickly.

BUT, this is coming from a person who listens to music almost entirely with his eyes closed so that factors pretty heavily into my opinion on the matter.  You can't enjoy what you can't see after all.


----------



## UntilThen

I like the fact that it’s ‘Tele’ and ‘Fun’ and ‘UT’.

Need to change the spelling.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Unless the output tubes use manual bias, in which case DC current meters are a must, I think meters are a thing that sound cool at first but stop getting paid attention to quickly.
> 
> BUT, this is coming from a person who listens to music almost entirely with his eyes closed so that factors pretty heavily into my opinion on the matter.  You can't enjoy what you can't see after all.



Glenn said that he will see if manual bias on the output tubes is necessary. If not then no meters.

My visual designer says not necessary so I will listen to him.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 14, 2019)

Telefunken is actually still around. A unique German company founded in 1903, after several acquisitions survives to this day and is a mfg. of high quality microphones, accessories, even headpones and apparel - yup, TLF shirts! 
And it appears they're still making KT88, 6V6, 6L6, E88CC and EL34 tubes.
link
disclaimer - I am in no way affiliated.


----------



## DecentLevi

edited above post ^


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 15, 2019)

Amplifying:

Via Vinyl:


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I like the fact that it’s ‘Tele’ and ‘Fun’ and ‘UT’.
> 
> Need to change the spelling.



Here, UT stands for Utility Trailer. 

As in:
“Can I borrow the UT next weekend?”.


----------



## mordy (Sep 15, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Telefunken is actually still around. A unique German company founded in 1903, after several acquisitions survives to this day and is a mfg. of high quality microphones, accessories, even headpones and apparel - yup, TLF shirts!
> And it appears they're still making KT88, 6V6, 6L6, E88CC and EL34 tubes.
> link
> disclaimer - I am in no way affiliated.


To the best of my knowledge Telefunken does not manufacture vacuum tubes any more, but licenses their logo to other manufacturer(s). Could only find one manufacturer of Telefunken branded tubes - JJ Tubes in Slovakia.
https://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/shop/vacuum-tubes/black-diamond-series




After reading through the material it appears that they are all made by JJ tubes - you have to pay a hefty premium for having the TFK logo on the tube compared to JJ.
A JJ KT88 lists for $44 on eBay compared to $91 for a TFK branded JJ tube.....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Single...705519&hash=item25e697e977:g:hL4AAOSwbihaIKjW


----------



## UntilThen

I have 3 pairs of very good EL11 tubes. One pair is branded Telefunken. The other 2 pairs are branded Siemens. Looking at the internal construction closely, they are identical. 

I have 4 pairs of excellent EL12 spez. 3 pairs are branded Telefunken. The other pair is from Tesla Czechoslovakia.

I like to think there is an association between Siemens and Telefunken, especially given the fact that the EL11 tubes are identical in construction. I wasn't sure though. Did a quick google search on Telefunken and it came up with this from Wikipedia.
*Telefunken* was a German radio and television apparatus company, founded in Berlin in 1903, as a joint venture of Siemens & Halske and the Allgemeine Elektricitäts-Gesellschaft (AEG) (_General electricity company_). 

So the amp is call Berlin but I have to acknowledge Telefunken and Siemens. To a lessor extent, Tesla.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> To the best of my knowledge Telefunken does not manufacture vacuum tubes any more, but licenses their logo to other manufacturer(s). Could only find one manufacturer of Telefunken branded tubes - JJ Tubes in Slovakia.
> https://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/shop/vacuum-tubes/black-diamond-series
> 
> 
> ...



That's good info on present day Telefunken. If only they still produce EL11, EL12, EL12 spez even if it's re-issue.


----------



## UntilThen

Glow in the dark magnet. Can just press it against the front panel. 

https://www.amazon.com/TELEFUNKEN-Elektroakustik-Diamond-Logo-Magnet/dp/B07CZQ374Z


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> I have 3 pairs of very good EL11 tubes. One pair is branded Telefunken. The other 2 pairs are branded Siemens. Looking at the internal construction closely, they are identical.
> 
> I have 4 pairs of excellent EL12 spez. 3 pairs are branded Telefunken. The other pair is from Tesla Czechoslovakia.
> 
> ...



Hi UT...just a thought. As your EL11s are all of the TFK design and being less 'warm' than the EL3N, it could possibly be that a rectifier leaning more towards this side might just be useful? All will depend, of course, upon Glenn's implementation...not to mention personal preference!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...just a thought. As your EL11s are all of the TFK design and being less 'warm' than the EL3N, it could possibly be that a rectifier leaning more towards this side might just be useful? All will depend, of course, upon Glenn's implementation...not to mention personal preference!



Hi again H1. The choice of rectifiers is open as long as they meet >= 1000 PIV and 250ma. So I've GEC U52, Cossor 53KU at the moment. These are on the warm side of neutral. Might pick up a EML or Sophia Electric 5U4G later but I don't know if they are warm or bright. 

I have to consult the rectifier guru @gibosi 

Also I have a lot more EL11s besides the Telefunken and Siemens. I have a pair of Triniton EL11, a pair of Tungsram EL11, a pair of RFT EL11, one Philips Miniwatt EL11, and some single ones. Enough to last a millennium. I think I went a bit Berlin crazy.


----------



## UntilThen

Maybe if I'm power hungry I could buy this Telefunken EL156.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright thank you very much gentlemen for not bidding against me. I just won these 2 pairs of EL12 spez. That should complete my 3 pairs of Telefunken EL12 spez and 1 pair of Tesla EL12 spez. All NOS NIB. Now I'm done with tubes for Project Berlin.


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Alright thank you very much gentlemen for not bidding against me. I just won these 2 pairs of EL12 spez. That should complete my 3 pairs of Telefunken EL12 spez and 1 pair of Tesla EL12 spez. All NOS NIB. Now I'm done with tubes for Project Berlin.



Nice one UT...no wonder supplies of 11s and 12 Spezs suddenly dried up lol!  And re. your varied collection of EL11s, you should find that _in general_, those with the _round_ (TFK designed) plate are not quite as 'warm' as those with the _oval _(Philips designed) plate. But there's not a great deal in it, and IMHO all are top class performers...especially when driving other ELs as powers.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Nice one UT...no wonder supplies of 11s and 12 Spezs suddenly dried up lol!  And re. your varied collection of EL11s, you should find that _in general_, those with the _round_ (TFK designed) plate are not quite as 'warm' as those with the _oval _(Philips designed) plate. But there's not a great deal in it, and IMHO all are top class performers...especially when driving other ELs as powers.



My ears are quite alright with on the slight bright side of neutral, especially with slightly warmer headphones as the ZMF Verite Open and Audeze LCD-3f. I am thinking of getting a HiFiman HE6se or perhaps wait for Zach to produce a nice planar magnetic. 

I've about 50% of the world's supply of EL11 and EL12 spez, some EL12, EL12N etc. Not sure who's buying the rest lol.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Telefunken and Glenn Studio logo.
> 
> @L0rdGwyn that’s your next task. It has to be outstanding and colour coordinated.




I remember some years ago there was discussion of a Glenn Studio badge for Glenn's amps....

A badge would be cool.  Definitely not needed though....it is part of it's beauty to me.


----------



## UntilThen

A badge with Glenn Studio would be nice. I don't need a Telefunken badge. Current amps look nice as it is. No need for decorations.


----------



## UntilThen

After a few days with Studio Six, I went back to GOTL and it's still a sweet sounding amp. The OTL is just so magical sounding. I would expect no less from Berlin. Glenn told me Berlin will be awesome because it's not all that different from GEL3N, which according to him, it's his favourite amp of all the amps he build.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Alright thank you very much gentlemen for not bidding against me. I just won these 2 pairs of EL12 spez. That should complete my 3 pairs of Telefunken EL12 spez and 1 pair of Tesla EL12 spez. All NOS NIB. Now I'm done with tubes for Project Berlin.





UntilThen said:


> Hi again H1. The choice of rectifiers is open as long as they meet >= 1000 PIV and 250ma. So I've GEC U52, Cossor 53KU at the moment. These are on the warm side of neutral. Might pick up a EML or Sophia Electric 5U4G later but I don't know if they are warm or bright.
> 
> I have to consult the rectifier guru @gibosi
> 
> Also I have a lot more EL11s besides the Telefunken and Siemens. I have a pair of Triniton EL11, a pair of Tungsram EL11, a pair of RFT EL11, one Philips Miniwatt EL11, and some single ones. Enough to last a millennium. I think I went a bit Berlin crazy.




Nice, you will have all of the tubes you will ever need for this amp and if you find you like some better than others....maybe grab more of those.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Nice, you will have all of the tubes you will ever need for this amp and if you find you like some better than others....maybe grab more of those.



I don't need more tubes now. I'm fatigued from buying tubes lol. Every other day a package arrives at my doorstep. I think the Postman must be unimpressed I gave them more work. 

Of all the many types of EL11 that I have, the Telefunken EL11s are of the best quality in term of construction. The Tesla and Tungsram EL11s and even the RFT EL11s are not as well constructed. Their base comes off loose easily. It's like they use cheap glue lol but we're looking at tubes made so many years ago. It's amazing that there are still NOS and NIB EL11 tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

This is in the listing from the 2 pairs of EL12 spez I just bought. If it's 1940s /50s then that's old. Pretty old. 


*Original vintage German tubes.  Made in the 1940s/50s.  PROFESSIONAL version of EL12. See pictures.*

*Tubes are old stock. NEW from old production in original boxes (NOS). Boxes are damaged. Tested on West German Funke W19S military tube tester with BEST results and close MATCHED systems.*

*EXCELLENT audio tube. One of the VERY BEST power tubes ever made! Hard to find now!*


----------



## UntilThen

Joe how are you getting along with your GEL3N with the new tubes. I bet you're having a blast.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> This is in the listing from the 2 pairs of EL12 spez I just bought. If it's 1940s /50s then that's old. Pretty old.
> 
> 
> *Original vintage German tubes.  Made in the 1940s/50s.  PROFESSIONAL version of EL12. See pictures.*
> ...




It is pretty amazing that old tubes that have sit on shelve's for most of their life can still sound as good as they do.
Sometimes they need to get some hours on them to settle down, but that makes perfect since as they have just been laying around on the couch for years.  






UntilThen said:


> Joe how are you getting along with your GEL3N with the new tubes. I bet you're having a blast.



I am pretty much just enjoying the music...I tried them all to make sure they work fine...so I could leave positive feedback for sellers.

Now I am back to EL34 and enjoying music.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I am pretty much just enjoying the music...I tried them all to make sure they work fine...so I could leave positive feedback for sellers.
> 
> Now I am back to EL34 and enjoying music.



How true ! After the initial thrill of playing with new toys have wore off, you just settle down to listen to music and enjoy it. Since 14th August, I've been in a constant daze from the arrival of first Verite, then GOTL got restored, then the arrival of Studio Six. It's too much of a good thing happening. However I'm settling down now. No longer the excited lad with his new toys but a calmness has taken over and the music is just so gooooood with any of the 2 amps I use with Verite. After dinner with a glass of red. My kind of life.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Hi again H1. The choice of rectifiers is open as long as they meet >= 1000 PIV and 250ma. So I've GEC U52, Cossor 53KU at the moment. These are on the warm side of neutral. Might pick up a EML or Sophia Electric 5U4G later but I don't know if they are warm or bright.
> 
> I have to consult the rectifier guru @gibosi
> 
> Also I have a lot more EL11s besides the Telefunken and Siemens. I have a pair of Triniton EL11, a pair of Tungsram EL11, a pair of RFT EL11, one Philips Miniwatt EL11, and some single ones. Enough to last a millennium. I think I went a bit Berlin crazy.



Maybe the Philips Miniwatt EL11 is just one of there EL3N with a different base. And will have the same mellow sound.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Maybe the Philips Miniwatt EL11 is just one of there EL3N with a different base. And will have the same mellow sound.



No. I have tried 2 Philips Miniwatt EL11 as drivers in the GOTL (before one of them died on me) and they sounded very similar to the Telefunken EL11, which I also tried as drivers in GOTL. Even the shape is the same. I think they came out of the same oven or made in different factory but with the same technique. Who knows.


----------



## UntilThen

RFT EL11 does sound different from the Telefunken EL11 but not by much. I don't seem to detect much difference between brands of EL11 but then perhaps I have not been spending too much time with them.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I won these tubes at on international auction last night, $95 for a quad of 6C5G, I was the only bidder.  May not seem like that great of a deal, seller does not know what brand they are as they are unlabeled...but I do 

The acid etching and bases gave it away, they are Fivre, a most excellent and rare tube!  The brown base with mesh shield is identical to my pair, so I will have a spare.  The brown base with solid shield are a new construction to me that I have not seen.  The black base are very early production, I will have to keep my eyes peeled for a match.

I haven't bought any tubes for a while, but I had to make an exception here.


----------



## whirlwind

Nice find


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Nice find


 
Thanks!  Always exciting to find a good deal.


----------



## UntilThen

They look classy enough to be the drivers of a top build. Love Fivre tubes. Congrats.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> I agree meters could be an overkill. Maybe I should find a Telefunken logo for the front.





2359glenn said:


> That would be cool



Here you go:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...973351?hash=item28782e03a7:g:OnYAAOSwoW1cfCIz


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> They look classy enough to be the drivers of a top build. Love Fivre tubes. Congrats.



That is the dream, I hope to have Glenn build me a transformer coupled amp with 6J5 inputs.  I would be very content only rolling these tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

Sounds like a killer amp..


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> No. I have tried 2 Philips Miniwatt EL11 as drivers in the GOTL (before one of them died on me) and they sounded very similar to the Telefunken EL11, which I also tried as drivers in GOTL. Even the shape is the same. I think they came out of the same oven or made in different factory but with the same technique. Who knows.



Factory matters. 

I have seen Philip's branded EL3N / EL11 sourced from four different factories -- Eindhoven, Holland; Blackburn/Mullard, England; Vienna/WIRAG, Austria and Loewe Opta, Berlin. And I haven't been looking at these tubes as long as others here, so there may well be other factories I don't know about....

Anyway, given that the German octal base was standard in Germany, it seems reasonable to assume that most EL11 carrying the Philips brand were manufactured by Loewe Opta and WIRAG, and at least on eBay, the vast majority I see are Loewe Opta. 

And in terms of sonics and tonality, to my ears, Loewe Opta is the closest to Telefunken.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> To the best of my knowledge Telefunken does not manufacture vacuum tubes any more, but licenses their logo to other manufacturer(s). Could only find one manufacturer of Telefunken branded tubes - JJ Tubes in Slovakia.
> https://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/shop/vacuum-tubes/black-diamond-series
> 
> 
> ...



Nice research, Mordy...
Like many of the famous old brands...they are "in name only" these days.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> This is in the listing from the 2 pairs of EL12 spez I just bought. If it's 1940s /50s then that's old. Pretty old.
> 
> 
> *Original vintage German tubes.  Made in the 1940s/50s.  PROFESSIONAL version of EL12. See pictures.*
> ...


Hi UT,
Turn the tubes upside down. Somewhere by the tube pins there should be a two letter date code. This chart will tell you what the code means:
http://www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm
I have found that many sellers like to state that their tubes are older when what they actually are - this chart will tell you the truth....


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice research, Mordy...
> Like many of the famous old brands...they are "in name only" these days.


Hi JV,
 When the announcement came out a couple of years ago that Telefunken tubes are being made again I researched it and found out that JJ tubes in Slovakia was going to make them. They actually stated in their  advertisement: "Impress your friends with the famous Telefunken logo!"
JJ tubes is said to use old Tesla (Czechoslovakia) equipment.


----------



## Monsterzero

After my 4v>5v rectifier adapter died,Deyan designed a new adapter. It will ship out on monday. Ive been losing a lot of headphone time lately as the GZ34 forces me to use other drivers,otherwise unwanted flab comes into play.

I asked Deyan whether this design will add emi,or other unwanted distortion to the sound. He doesnt think it will. He also says this adapter will last 900 years. Im going to be the guinea pig for this new,sturdier design. Will let you guys know once I have it.


----------



## Deyan

Monsterzero said:


> After my 4v>5v rectifier adapter died,Deyan designed a new adapter. It will ship out on monday. Ive been losing a lot of headphone time lately as the GZ34 forces me to use other drivers,otherwise unwanted flab comes into play.
> 
> I asked Deyan whether this design will add emi,or other unwanted distortion to the sound. He doesnt think it will. He also says this adapter will last 900 years. Im going to be the guinea pig for this new,sturdier design. Will let you guys know once I have it.



I said ABOUT 900 years. So plus minus 50.


----------



## Monsterzero

Deyan said:


> I said ABOUT 900 years. So plus minus 50.


 Wait...only 850 years is possible?!? I guess I better order a dozen,you know,just to be safe.


----------



## Deyan

All joking aside the thing has no adhesives this time so eve if it gets loose it can be tightened. And the contacts have another tightening feature that wasn't in the original socket. Tube insertion and extraction is comparable to a yamamoto socket.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Turn the tubes upside down. Somewhere by the tube pins there should be a two letter date code. This chart will tell you what the code means:
> http://www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm
> I have found that many sellers like to state that their tubes are older when what they actually are - this chart will tell you the truth....



The tubes have not been send to me yet but from the dates on the glass in the picture below, going by the chart you link, it appears to be Made in Berlin factory, 1960 & 1962.

So these are not so old.


----------



## Deyan

And that brings me  a step closer to making my own B4 and B5 sockets. Once I can get some new equipment.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> After my 4v>5v rectifier adapter died,Deyan designed a new adapter. It will ship out on monday. Ive been losing a lot of headphone time lately as the GZ34 forces me to use other drivers,otherwise unwanted flab comes into play.
> 
> I asked Deyan whether this design will add emi,or other unwanted distortion to the sound. He doesnt think it will. He also says this adapter will last 900 years. Im going to be the guinea pig for this new,sturdier design. Will let you guys know once I have it.



Is it a 3DG4 to the 4 volt tube ??
To put a very hot resistor in a adapter is crazy. Especially when the power can be taken from the amp.
This is what @gibosi has to run all his 4 volt tubes.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I won these tubes at on international auction last night, $95 for a quad of 6C5G, I was the only bidder.  May not seem like that great of a deal, seller does not know what brand they are as they are unlabeled...but I do
> 
> The acid etching and bases gave it away, they are Fivre, a most excellent and rare tube!  The brown base with mesh shield is identical to my pair, so I will have a spare.  The brown base with solid shield are a new construction to me that I have not seen.  The black base are very early production, I will have to keep my eyes peeled for a match.
> 
> I haven't bought any tubes for a while, but I had to make an exception here.?


Are these tubes similar to the 6J5G? Same pinout?


----------



## Deyan

2359glenn said:


> Is it a 3DG4 to the 4 volt tube ??
> To put a very hot resistor in a adapter is crazy. Especially when the power can be taken from the amp.
> This is what @gibosi has to run all his 4 volt tubes.



Nope no resistor.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Is it a 3DG4 to the 4 volt tube ??
> To put a very hot resistor in a adapter is crazy. Especially when the power can be taken from the amp.
> This is what @gibosi has to run all his 4 volt tubes.


 No,no resistors. Its the same design as Ken's,just has screws as opposed to glue.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Factory matters.
> 
> I have seen Philip's branded EL3N / EL11 sourced from four different factories -- Eindhoven, Holland; Blackburn/Mullard, England; Vienna/WIRAG, Austria and Loewe Opta, Berlin. And I haven't been looking at these tubes as long as others here, so there may well be other factories I don't know about....
> 
> ...



By all accounts you're probably right that the Philips Miniwatt EL11 are made by Loewe Opta but if they are, they probably would have followed the construction blueprint from Telefunken. As from the picture I attached from my crappy iphone x photo.  You can see from the top of the middle tube (Philips Miniwatt) and right tube (Telefunken) are identical. The left tube (Philip Miniwatt) is quite different - there's chrome covering the glass at the top and you can't see the internals. The glass is also slimmer. 

There are just too many variations.  The RFT EL11 again is different in construction.


----------



## UntilThen

Once you've experience Yamamoto's sockets, it's hard to go back to other sockets. The grip is firm and tube insertion and extraction is so so smooth. This is a picture I took of a socket in Studio Six. I believe they are Yamamoto's socket or of a similar teflon material. Just so smooth and yet firm getting tubes in and out.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> The tubes have not been send to me yet but from the dates on the glass in the picture below, going by the chart you link, it appears to be Made in Berlin factory, 1960 & 1962.
> 
> So these are not so old.


*"Original vintage German tubes. Made in the 1940s/50s. "*
Sometimes I am myself surprised at myself - as when I stated that many sellers like to say that the tubes are older than they are.....
Anyhow, according to my deciphering the codes printed on the tubes,they are pretty closely matched:
B 0110004 = Berlin Oct 10, 1960
B 6010204 = Berlin Dec  6, 1960

_B=Berlin factory.

Day=reverse the first and second digit=02

Month=third and fifth digit=03=March

Year=fourth digit=9=1969_


----------



## UntilThen

Ah yeah I was looking at it too quickly. They are indeed both 1960 - twins born 2 months apart. 

Don't mind them being not so old. That's 59 years ago.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Once you've experience Yamamoto's sockets, it's hard to go back to other sockets. The grip is firm and tube insertion and extraction is so so smooth. This is a picture I took of a socket in Studio Six. I believe they are Yamamoto's socket or of a similar teflon material. Just so smooth and yet firm getting tubes in and out.



He who does not roll...does not need fancy sockets, right?


----------



## UntilThen

Examining Tesla EL12 spez again, the tube looks beautiful and even outclass the Telefunken EL12 spez in looks - IMO as usual . I have not been able to verify the tone though. That will have to wait till Berlin is build. Here is a picture of it taken some time ago. Tesla has black glass with chrome whilst Telefunken has grey glass. Telefunken's picture is taken from seller's listing.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Are these tubes similar to the 6J5G? Same pinout?



Hey mordy - yes, the 6C5G and 6J5G are interchangeable.  They have some small differences in their specifications, but are close enough to be considered direct substitutes.  The bigger difference between them is the 6C5G has internal shielding that is tied to pin 1 while the shouldered 6J5G do not have shielding.


----------



## UntilThen

K is buying 6J5, 6C5 and L63 like I'm buying EL11s. Ensuring we have supplies for a custom build. That's good planning.  What power tubes have you got in mind to pair with those lovely drivers K?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Examining Tesla EL12 spez again, the tube looks beautiful and even outclass the Telefunken EL12 spez in looks - IMO as usual . I have not been able to verify the tone though. That will have to wait till Berlin is build. Here is a picture of it taken some time ago. Tesla has black glass with chrome whilst Telefunken has grey glass. Telefunken's picture is taken from seller's listing.



Tesla had an eye for design, here is a pair of rare NIB pinched waist 6CC42 I used to own, loved the sound of those little tubes, the logo, and their packaging


----------



## leftside (Sep 15, 2019)

Hey @mordy how about the date codes on these EL12's?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL12-Speci...NIB-Pair-Tested-Matched-Datacode/273999353531

Edit: I've just seen your link, so let me try and figure it out.
http://www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey mordy - yes, the 6C5G and 6J5G are interchangeable.  They have some small differences in their specifications, but are close enough to be considered direct substitutes.  The bigger difference between them is the 6C5G has internal shielding that is tied to pin 1 while the shouldered 6J5G do not have shielding.


Is there any advantage to the internal shielding?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> K is buying 6J5, 6C5 and L63 like I'm buying EL11s. Ensuring we have supplies for a custom build. That's good planning.  What power tubes have you got in mind to pair with those lovely drivers K?



Yes, I love the 6J5!  I would say it is top three if not number 1 for me in the GOTL as far as drivers go.  The grey shouldered MOV L63 is incredible, as are the Fivre 6C5G...and the Visseaux 6J5G...and the Tung-Sol, and the RFT..and, and...

I can't say what the powers would be yet, I have some homework to do there.  The 6V6 seems like an interesting option, it is widely available and flexible, those Fivres from Langrex have caught my eye.  I am targeting mid 2020 though for this build, so there is time 

Of course, Glenn's expert opinion will be a big factor, the amp builder knows best.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Is there any advantage to the internal shielding?



In theory yes, less RFI, but I wouldn't know!  My adapter does not have a pin 1, so the shielding is just there to be shiny and look pretty.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Hey @mordy how about the date codes on these EL12's?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL12-Speci...NIB-Pair-Tested-Matched-Datacode/273999353531


I am only guessing since usually the date codes of the early Telefunken tubes is found printed in white two letter designations at the base of the tube by the pins.
Anyhow here goes my guess:
U = Ulm
vp = August 1954 according to the chart under the letter V
03 - don't know


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Hey @mordy how about the date codes on these EL12's?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL12-Speci...NIB-Pair-Tested-Matched-Datacode/273999353531
> 
> Edit: I've just seen your link, so let me try and figure it out.
> http://www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm



Is that yours? You're a tube collector leftside.  Good hobby though. Better than collecting stamps.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, I love the 6J5!  I would say it is top three if not number 1 for me in the GOTL as far as drivers go.  The grey shouldered MOV L63 is incredible, as are the Fivre 6C5G...and the Visseaux 6J5G...and the Tung-Sol, and the RFT..and, and...
> 
> I can't say what the powers would be yet, I have some homework to do there.  The 6V6 seems like an interesting option, it is widely available and flexible, those Fivres from Langrex have caught my eye.  I am targeting mid 2020 though for this build, so there is time
> 
> Of course, Glenn's expert opinion will be a big factor, the amp builder knows best.


This is the build I'm going for, and haven't changed my mind since coming up with the 6J5 + 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77 idea. My only question to @2359glenn  is 4 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77 or 2 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77, and whether it would be worthwhile to have a 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77 selection switch?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> This is the build I'm going for, and haven't changed my mind since coming up with the 6J5 + 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77 idea. My only question to @2359glenn  is 4 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77 or 2 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77, and whether it would be worthwhile to have a 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77 selection switch?



You know, as I was typing that, I was thinking "Isn't this what @leftside is doing exactly?".  Sorry I am a copycat, I'll have to pick your brain and see how you like it.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Is that yours? You're a tube collector leftside.  Good hobby though. Better than collecting stamps.


Not in my hands yet  Seller accepted my offer for about the same price yours went for.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> No,no resistors. Its the same design as Ken's,just has screws as opposed to glue.



Good no inferno inside the adapter.
Were the Chinese adapter makers go wrong is if you do the math it has to dissipate 4 watts of heat so they put two 2 watt resistors in series to fit in the adapter .
In order to dissipate 4 watts you need a 8 to 10 watt resistor and that won't fit in the adapter,
They don't care if it lasts a couple of months it's all good. That also cooks the glue at the base of the tube.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, I love the 6J5! I would say it is top three if not number 1 for me in the GOTL as far as drivers go. The grey shouldered MOV L63 is incredible, as are the *Fivre 6C5G*...and the Visseaux 6J5G...and the Tung-Sol, and the RFT..and, and...


Are the 6C5G compatible with GOTL using the 2x6J5 --> 6SN7 adapter?
(6C5G are not in my compatibility table. Yet...)


----------



## leftside

Zachik said:


> Are the 6C5G compatible with GOTL using the 2x6J5 --> 6SN7 adapter?
> (6C5G are not in my compatibility table. Yet...)


Yes


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> You know, as I was typing that, I was thinking "Isn't this what @leftside is doing exactly?".  Sorry I am a copycat, I'll have to pick your brain and see how you like it.



Leftside started this trend of going down the supremo custom build rabbit hole. Had it not been for him, Berlin would have just been a band and 'Taking My Breath Away' would just have been the theme song of Top Gun that propel Tom Cruise to super stardom and Kelly McGillis was the hottest girl then.

Now Berlin will be a headphone tubeamp and one of my new bucket list is to visit Berlin and go to the remnants of the old Telefunken factory in the hope that I might pick up a vintage Telefunken badge.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 15, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Are the 6C5G compatible with GOTL using the 2x6J5 --> 6SN7 adapter?
> (6C5G are not in my compatibility table. Yet...)



You can throw the 6P5G in there as well, will work with the same adapter.  Thanks, Z.


----------



## UntilThen

So one more time, Berlin ! One of my favourite movie of all time.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> So one more time, Berlin ! One of my favourite movie of all time.




You know there is a sequel coming out next year?  Hopefully it doesn't suck!  The trailer looks pretty cool.  We live in an era of intense nostalgia, every notable franchise will be revived and squeezed for every last drop of $ by Hollywood.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> You know there is a sequel coming out next year? Hopefully it doesn't suck! The trailer looks pretty cool. We live in an era of intense nostalgia, every notable franchise will be revived and squeezed for every last drop of $ by Hollywood.



The sequel will be for your next amp haha. Wow the sequel trailer looks good. There you go. You have a name for your amp - Maverick !


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Leftside started this trend of going down the supremo custom build rabbit hole. Had it not been for him, Berlin would have just been a band and 'Taking My Breath Away' would just have been the theme song of Top Gun that propel Tom Cruise to super stardom and Kelly McGillis was the hottest girl then.
> 
> Now Berlin will be a headphone tubeamp and one of my new bucket list is to visit Berlin and go to the remnants of the old Telefunken factory in the hope that I might pick up a vintage Telefunken badge.


Hi UT,
After the end of World War II the Allied forces occupied West Berlin. This occupation lasted throughout the Cold War. The Berlin-Brigade was a term used to describe the brigade-sized garrison forces.
McNair-Barracks occupies the site of the former AEG Telefunken electronics factory.
After the reunification of Germany, the Berlin-Brigade was no longer necessary and it was deactivated in 1994.





On the compound of McNair Barracks there is the private McNair Museum. It is open for public visitors. You don´t need to buy a ticket, its free. The museum was located in the building of the former Rod & Gun Club, in 2006 it had to move. Its new home is in building 1001H.
Then:




Now:




I don't think that you will find anything from the past....




http://mcnair-barracks.berlin-brigade.com/index.php


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> This is the build I'm going for, and haven't changed my mind since coming up with the 6J5 + 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77 idea. My only question to @2359glenn  is 4 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77 or 2 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77, and whether it would be worthwhile to have a 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77 selection switch?



They all use the same impedance output transformer.
Guess could switch for the different cathode resistors Kt77 470 ohm KT66 500  ohm EL34 130 ohm 6V6 180 ohm.
This way they will all be operating at optimum operating point.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy our love for tubes takes us back to the past of historic significance. Someday I'll come across a tube that takes me to Normandy.


----------



## leftside

Slight typo: I meant 6L6/EL34/KT66/KT77 and not 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77, although 6V6 as well would be great


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> They all use the same impedance output transformer.
> Guess could switch for the different cathode resistors Kt77 470 ohm KT66 500  ohm EL34 130 ohm 6V6 180 ohm.
> This way they will all be operating at optimum operating point.



This should be exciting for those after this build. There's also the 5881 tube. This one caught my eye much earlier because it reminds of IBM tubes used in early years computer tape drives.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Slight typo: I meant 6L6/EL34/KT66/KT77 and not 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77, although 6V6 as well would be great



My son has a Fender's guitar amp and it uses 6L6. Says it's great ! for guitar amps that is.


----------



## UntilThen

It's interesting how I change my preference from 6v6gt to 6v6g and back again. The 'gt' has better definition and a tighter tone. The 'g' version has more bloom and nice texture. It's a good contrast even in the same family of 6v6 tubes.


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> Are the 6C5G compatible with GOTL using the 2x6J5 --> 6SN7 adapter?
> (6C5G are not in my compatibility table. Yet...)





leftside said:


> Yes



Added!  Thanks 



L0rdGwyn said:


> You can throw the 6P5G in there as well, will work with the same adapter.  Thanks, Z.



6P5 is already on the list, BUT: it is separate row than 6J5, and adapter needed (according to my table) is "Dual 6P5 to 6SN7 adapter" (as opposed to "Dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter").
Is that a mistake? Is the Dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter compatible with 6P5, or does it require yet another adapter?!


----------



## Zachik

Question to the tube historians and experts:
I bought a batch of various tubes, all labeled Beckman, and I need help identifying some of them (plus whether or not they're compatible with GOTL)...


First up, a couple 6336A (which is the reason I bought this batch!) - any idea who actually is the manufacturer?



 

Next, 6Y6GA (again, no idea who is the manufacturer)...


 

12AX7 (I think) - any good? who made it?


 

A pair of 6X4 - never heard of these... any good for anything?!


 

Lastly, a pair of tubes that I have no idea what they are...


----------



## UntilThen

You must have raided Beckman's factory.


----------



## UntilThen

Took out my RFT EL11 for a photo shoot. NOS and NIB. Why did I keep it low profile? This should go into Berlin too. I found out that RFT stands for Rundfunk- und Fernmelde-Technik. That's a mouthful to pronounce. It's a group of state-owned technology companies in the former German Democratic Republic (East Germany). This company produced valves for Telefunken and Siemens and made the famous Siemens EL34. These valves are of very good quality and have excellent consistency. I sure hope so !


----------



## UntilThen

Ouch these are US$108 each now. How prices have shot up since I first started buying EL11 in the days of Elise.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> 6P5 is already on the list, BUT: it is separate row than 6J5, and adapter needed (according to my table) is "Dual 6P5 to 6SN7 adapter" (as opposed to "Dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter").
> Is that a mistake? Is the Dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter compatible with 6P5, or does it require yet another adapter?!



Nope, same exact adapter, same pinout as the 6J5.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Question to the tube historians and experts:
> I bought a batch of various tubes, all labeled Beckman, and I need help identifying some of them (plus whether or not they're compatible with GOTL)...
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Z,
 The 6336A has graphite plates and was made by Bendix. It draws 5A and you can only use two in the GOTL.
The 12AX7 has EIA number 188 which is GE, as well as those white sandblasted dots which is a giveaway of GE manufacture.
The 6X4 also has the sandblasted white dots which means - you'll guess.....
The last tube with the anode cap probably has something written under those yellow labels - need more information to identify them.
I am sure the 6Y6GA has some numbers on the base - let me know what they are.


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Hi Z,
> The 6336A has graphite plates and was made by Bendix. It draws 5A and you can only use two in the GOTL.
> The 12AX7 has EIA number 188 which is GE, as well as those white sandblasted dots which is a giveaway of GE manufacture.
> The 6X4 also has the sandblasted white dots which means - you'll guess.....
> ...



PS: OK - identified the last tube with anode cap - it is a Sylvania 1229 tube; 2V and for electrometer applications (whatever that means).
https://www.ebay.com/p/NOS-Beckman-2532-932-Electrometer-Tube-sylvania-1229/757934680


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi Z,
> The 6*336A has graphite plates and was made by Bendix*. It draws 5A and you can only use two in the GOTL.
> The 12AX7 has EIA number 188 which is GE, as well as those white sandblasted dots which is a giveaway of GE manufacture.
> The 6X4 also has the sandblasted white dots which means - you'll guess.....
> ...



Are you sure about this Mordy? I don't believe I have ever seen a 6336 manufactured by Bendix. However, I have in my collection 6336 manufactured by Chatham/Tung-Sol and Raytheon. And the EIA code printed on the base of the one pictured above is 280, which corresponds to Raytheon....


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 15, 2019)

leftside said:


> This is the build I'm going for, and haven't changed my mind since coming up with the 6J5 + 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77 idea. My only question to @2359glenn  is 4 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77 or 2 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77, and whether it would be worthwhile to have a 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77 selection switch?





2359glenn said:


> They all use the same impedance output transformer.
> Guess could switch for the different cathode resistors Kt77 470 ohm KT66 500  ohm EL34 130 ohm 6V6 180 ohm.
> This way they will all be operating at optimum operating point.



Leftside your amp is very similar to the one I'm getting. But mine will use a single 6SN7 driver, along with a 1-2 stage knob and output impedance knob for speakers. Personally I'm going with 4x power sockets allowing me to choose either 2x or 4x depending on what sounds best, which I'm thankful for Glenn agreeing to.

Here are the power tubes I plan to use:_ (including with adapters)_

EL3N, EL12, EL12 Spez, EL32, EL34, EL38, EL39, 6V6, KT66, KT77

@2359glenn would it be possible to also add a knob to switch the cathode resistor settings to allow all the above power tubes to operate optimally? Granted it would not be practical to have 10 different settings, so perhaps would you be able to let me switch between... say the top 3-4 'main' operating points? For example 1 setting for 500ohm for KT66 and KT77 since they're close, 1 setting for EL12, 1 setting for EL 38/39 and 1 setting for EL3N. Those are the most important to me and the others I can make do with between those 3-4 settings. Unless of course you have a better recommendation for the average resistor switch ohm values and number of switch positions based upon the above list.

However, would 4 knobs be too impractical for you to build? The resistor switch knob in addition to volume, 1-2 stage and output impedance knob. I'm really interested in this configuration and I'm willing to pay even more or have an even larger chassis if necessary, so please let me know. And this should be my final revision for this request.

Finally RE the CCS. I'm assuming this is for the driver tubes right? And if I understand correctly this should allow 6SN7, 6N7 and dual 6J5 (with adapters) and most miniature 9-pin novals to operate optimally; but would there be any recommended adjustment option for EL11 and EL32 to operate optimally as drivers?


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Are you sure about this Mordy? I don't believe I have ever seen a 6336 manufactured by Bendix. However, I have in my collection 6336 manufactured by Chatham/Tung-Sol and Raytheon. And the EIA code printed on the base of the one pictured above is 280, which corresponds to Raytheon....


Thanks for correcting me - I thought that all graphite plates were made by Bendix with different names on them - don't know where I got this idea from....
When it comes to the graphite plates 6080, there are a number of brands - were they all made by the different manufacturers?

I have 6336 tubes labeled Cetron, Raytheon and RCA. In addition, there are a number of more name brands and rebranded names for the 6336 - GE, Chatham, Tung Sol, United, Beckman etc.


----------



## mordy

Add Mullard to the list:



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-NO...383726?hash=item26271410ee:g:flMAAOSwxktdbHW1

Honorable mention goes to the person who figures out which US factory made this Mullard branded tube  (at least I think I have the answer, but I have been wrong before lol....)


----------



## gibosi (Sep 15, 2019)

To the best of my knowledge all 6080 with graphite plates were manufactured by Bendix, regardless of brand. And all American-made 6336 and 6528 with graphite plates were manufactured by Chatham/Tung-Sol/Cetron or Raytheon.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Add Mullard to the list:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Chatham/Tung-Sol.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> To the best of my knowledge all 6080 with graphite plates were manufactured by Bendix, regardless of brand. And all American-made 6336 with graphite plates were manufactured by Chatham/Tung-Sol/Cetron or Ratheon.


Now I feel better, even though I made a mistake...lol. 
In summary, I must have gotten the idea that all graphite plate tubes were made by one manufacturer because all the 6080 graphite tubes were made by Bendix regardless of brand.
And all 6336 graphite tubes were made by either Tung Sol or Raytheon.
Thanks for clarifying this.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Add Mullard to the list:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



These are for sale now on Ebay...right?

What is the difference in the 6336A and 6336B tubes?


----------



## gibosi

6336B are a bit more reliable when used as a pass tube than the 6336A. However, when used as audio tubes I don't notice a difference.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Chatham/Tung-Sol.


Re the Mullard 6336, if you look on top of the tube, under the octagon with the designation, it says USA 3.




Many Tung Sol tubes have this number 3 (Factory 3?) either on top of the tube, or after a bunch of numbers showing the date:




322 is the EIA number for Tung Sol
6826 means the 26th week of 1968
And then you have the number 3 again...Factory 3
And the honorable mention goes to gibosi!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> These are for sale now on Ebay...right?
> I think they came up for sale now while I was looking for different brands and rebrands. Have never seen Mullard branded 6336 before.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I think they came up for sale now while I was looking for different brands and rebrands. Have never seen Mullard branded 6336 before.



How do the 6336 compare, to using a pair of 6H13C or a pair of 6080's?


----------



## UntilThen

First video I've seen of EL12 spez tubes in action.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> How do the 6336 compare, to using a pair of 6H13C or a pair of 6080's?


I believe the 6336 is equal to a quad of 6080s.
Glenn suggests using 6336s with planar or low impedance headphones in the GOTL. I can confirm it sounds very nice.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Nope, same exact adapter, same pinout as the 6J5.


Thanks - table corrected!


----------



## UntilThen

Watch this and see if you prefer 6L6, EL34 or KT88.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Hi Z,
> The 6336A has graphite plates and was made by Bendix. It draws 5A and you can only use two in the GOTL.
> The 12AX7 has EIA number 188 which is GE, as well as those white sandblasted dots which is a giveaway of GE manufacture.
> The 6X4 also has the sandblasted white dots which means - you'll guess.....
> ...


on the base, other than the Beckman label, it has:
Made in USA
66-35
274



mordy said:


> PS: OK - identified the last tube with anode cap - it is a Sylvania 1229 tube; 2V and for electrometer applications (whatever that means).
> https://www.ebay.com/p/NOS-Beckman-2532-932-Electrometer-Tube-sylvania-1229/757934680


Thanks. Sounds like totally useless tubes... was part of the Beckman lot, which I bought just for the 6336A tubes.



gibosi said:


> Are you sure about this Mordy? I don't believe I have ever seen a 6336 manufactured by Bendix. However, I have in my collection 6336 manufactured by Chatham/Tung-Sol and Raytheon. And the EIA code printed on the base of the one pictured above is 280, which corresponds to Raytheon....


Well... I paid $50 for 3 of them. Maybe not the deal of the century, but if they test and work well (hope to test tomorrow) - still worth it


----------



## UntilThen

2nd pair of Siemens EL11 arrived from ebay seller euroklang. My favourite supplier of EL tubes. All immaculate and in stunning condition. Warming it up with 5998 in GOTL to test it.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> on the base, other than the Beckman label, it has:
> Made in USA
> 66-35
> 274
> ...


*6Y6GA *
66-35                35th week 1966
274                   RCA

$17 for a 6336 is a good price


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> *6Y6GA *
> 66-35                35th week 1966
> 274                   RCA
> 
> $17 for a 6336 is a good price


Thanks mordy!
I figured the date part, but now I know it is RCA 
Not in my GOTL compatibility table... is it useful / usable in the GOTL?! Usable in any other amp??


----------



## UntilThen

Siemens EL11 with Tung Sol 5998. One of the best tones I've heard in GOTL with ZMF Verite headphone and Yggdrasil. Stunning dynamics and energy. Tubes are super quiet. If only I could test EL11 with EL12 spez in GOTL. This is a glimpse of things to come in Berlin.


----------



## UntilThen

Just realised that the 5998 boost switch is still on. No wonder it's boosted.


----------



## UntilThen

Tried with LCD-3f with the same setup. It's just as beauuutiful. Volume just past 12 noon for both headphones. Total awe and admiration for GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

Here's a funny story. When I picked my GOTL from Factory Audio from the repair and replacement of the sockets, I ask Will the resident engineer extraordinaire, whether he tested by listening to music with it. Will look at me with a puzzlement. He said he never listen to any gear he repaired or restored, be they McIntosh, Audio Note or Luxman. I was shocked !!!

So I countered, 'How do you know it works then?'. Politely he led me to his bench where all this testing equipment are and connected a 2 prong connector to various sockets of GOTL and showed me the graph. He showed me the graph on the machine that goes up and down and said, that's how I know it works and will sound best for it's intended application. Furthermore he said, "I don't listen with the gear because SQ is subjective. I won't argue with you whether McIntosh or Audio Note sounds better. That's for you to decide, he declared ! 

Ok, I got it Will. 

Now with GOTL back home after 3 weeks and I reckon GOTL sounds better than McIntosh and Audio Note.


----------



## UntilThen

Monster, you have to try GOTL with EL11 and 5998 on your Verite Closed. It's incredible. To my ears, it's much better than c3g and 5998.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Here's a funny story. When I picked my GOTL from Factory Audio from the repair and replacement of the sockets, I ask Will the resident engineer extraordinaire, whether he tested by listening to music with it. Will look at me with a puzzlement. He said he never listen to any gear he repaired or restored, be they McIntosh, Audio Note or Luxman. I was shocked !!!
> 
> So I countered, 'How do you know it works then?'. Politely he led me to his bench where all this testing equipment are and connected a 2 prong connector to various sockets of GOTL and showed me the graph. He showed me the graph on the machine that goes up and down and said, that's how I know it works and will sound best for it's intended application. Furthermore he said, "I don't listen with the gear because SQ is subjective. I won't argue with you whether McIntosh or Audio Note sounds better. That's for you to decide, he declared !
> 
> ...



 Good story.

Will was a great find.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Monster, you have to try GOTL with EL11 and 5998 on your Verite Closed.


 I dont have the adapters needed for the el11. I have the el8,which arent bad,but not my fav for the VC. How do they differ in sound,and which ones are you using?


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Good story.
> 
> Will was a great find.



You have to be kidding me. Any technician who can repair any gear confidently without listening to it after the repair (and know that it works 110%) must be a magician or a super technician. Will apparently is both.

Jokes aside, I can heartily recommend Will for any repair.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 16, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I dont have the adapters needed for the el11. I have the el8,which arent bad,but not my fav for the VC. How do they differ in sound,and which ones are you using?



There is quite a big difference between EL8 and EL11. On the same token, there is a big difference between EL13 and EL11. EL8 and EL13 are quite similar.

Where EL8 and EL13 sounded more recessed and slightly lacking in bass, EL11 is on the opposite side of the spectrum. EL8 or EL13 has less gain. EL11 and EL3N have a lot more gain. The amplification for c3g is 40. EL11 is 36. This contributes to an energy and drive almost similar to c3g but EL11 has more body and texture. c3g in comparison sounded a lot leaner and more piercing in the high frequencies. EL11 sounded just about right to me.

I'm using Siemens EL11 which for the record is identical in tone and construction to Telefunken EL11 - according to UntilThen.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 16, 2019)

Having said that, if you need a more relaxing and dial back tone, the EL8 and EL13 will suit you better. So the caveat is, SQ is subjective. I won't argue with you which tube sounds better, That's for you to decide !!!!

I'm learning from Will.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> There is quite a big difference between EL8 and EL11. On the same token, there is a big difference between EL13 and EL11. EL8 and EL13 are quite similar.
> 
> Where EL8 and EL13 sounded more recessed and slightly lacking in bass, EL11 is on the opposite side of the spectrum. EL8 or EL13 has less gain. EL11 and EL3N have a lot more gain. The amplification for c3g is 40. EL11 is 36. This contributes to an energy and drive almost similar to c3g but EL11 has more body and texture. c3g in comparison sounded a lot leaner and more piercing in the high frequencies. EL11 sounded just about right to me.
> 
> I'm using Siemens EL11 which for the record is identical in tone and construction to Telefunken EL11 - according to UntilThen.


 Im having a hard time listening to any other headphone besides the VC. Im also having a hard time changing my tubes for the VC from Ken Rad VT231+GEC U18/20+6x 6bx7s. It sounds absolutely incredible. Fast,punchy,huge,tight sub bass,and creamy mids. Im slumming it with my GZ34,until my adapter arrives from Deyan.

That being said I just bought a cheapo new EH 6sn7,as its description in the 6sn7 thread sounds like it might sound good w/ the VC. If not,it was less than $25.00 shipped,so no big loss. 

The VC likes speedy,impactful tubes,pretty much the opposite of what I like for the VO. Are the EL11 fast tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Are the EL11 fast tubes?



Ok if you like Ken Rad VT231+GEC U18/20+6x 6bx7s, you will also like:-

Telefunken EL11 + 6 x 6bx7s

or 

Telefunken EL11 + 5998.

EL11 is faster than speedy gonzales !!!


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Ok if you like Ken Rad VT231+GEC U18/20+6x 6bx7s, you will also like:-
> 
> Telefunken EL11 + 6 x 6bx7s
> 
> ...


 Telefunken EL11 have less/more/same bass as el8s? I have a Telefunken 12ax7 in my speaker amp,and it is bright and airy,and not much bass. Im gonna add some Mullard 12au and 12ax to give it a bit more warmth and body. My new DAC is *much* more revealing than my old one.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Telefunken EL11 have less/more/same bass as el8s?



Mate you're not listening to what I type above. EL11 has a lot more bass than EL8. It's not a bass head driver per se but it does generate quite a lot of bass .... in combination with the right power tubes of course.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Mate you're not listening to what I type above. EL11 has a lot more bass than EL8. It's not a bass head driver per se but it does generate quite a lot of bass .... in combination with the right power tubes of course.


OK. I def dont want a basshead driver. The VC doesnt need it.

I might sell some headphones coming up soon. VC is turning a lot of my collection into dust collectors. After that I may give el11s a shot. Thanks Matt.


----------



## UntilThen

My experience with Verite Open is that it's a rather warm headphone compared to HD800. So to counter that, I use tubes that are slightly brighter and airier. This I find in the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, EL11. In combination with 6 x 6bx7, I find the synergy incredible. My Yggdrasil is also rather neutral. So it's about finding the right combination in your whole setup and of course our preference can differ. So there's no one size fits everyone.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> After that I may give el11s a shot.



Give it a shot but it's a rather expensive shot with 2 x adapters plus EL11s. I can't guarantee that it will be your cup of tea but even @gibosi reckons it's one of his fav driver in GOTL.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> My experience with Verite Open is that it's a rather warm headphone compared to HD800. So to counter that, I use tubes that are slightly brighter and airier. This I find in the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, EL11. In combination with 6 x 6bx7, I find the synergy incredible. My Yggdrasil is also rather neutral. So it's about finding the right combination in your whole setup and of course our preference can differ. So there's no one size fits everyone.


 Yeah,we like the VO for different reasons. Ideally I'd roll in brighter tubes for the VO,but I lose that depth that I love. As I mentioned in the VC review,Ive really spent a lot of cash on tubes for the VO,trying to find the right combo of adding some energy up top w/o losing the depth...to not much success.
The VC was super easy to get the sound I was after.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I might sell some headphones coming up soon.



It's a dilemma I'm face with. I'm using Verite Open most of the time. At times when I go back to HD800, LCD-3f, they still sound ok but as soon as I return to Verite, I'm wondering why I even bother to switch.

Verite is so natural sounding and comforting on the ears whilst dishing tons of detail and clarity. Never have a headphone affect me this much. I use to think everyone is hyping on Verite but now I know.... nothing to do with hype or wood but a discovery that will change how you perceive your ideal headphone sound. 

So it's a matter of time the HD800 and LCD-3f will be sold off .... and I might consider the Verite Close though I have resisted it much. If not for your persistence...... I'm almost convinced.


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Here's a funny story. When I picked my GOTL from Factory Audio from the repair and replacement of the sockets, I ask Will the resident engineer extraordinaire, whether he tested by listening to music with it. Will look at me with a puzzlement. He said he never listen to any gear he repaired or restored, be they McIntosh, Audio Note or Luxman. I was shocked !!!
> 
> So I countered, 'How do you know it works then?'. Politely he led me to his bench where all this testing equipment are and connected a 2 prong connector to various sockets of GOTL and showed me the graph. He showed me the graph on the machine that goes up and down and said, that's how I know it works and will sound best for it's intended application. Furthermore he said, "I don't listen with the gear because SQ is subjective. I won't argue with you whether McIntosh or Audio Note sounds better. That's for you to decide, he declared !
> 
> ...



I wish _tube_ testers' results were as reliable, UT...have received a good few tubes that tested OK in various ways (supposedly!), only for them to have such bad - sometimes _scary_ noise once in the amp as to be unusable!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> I wish _tube_ testers' results were as reliable, UT...have received a good few tubes that tested OK in various ways (supposedly!), only for them to have such bad - sometimes _scary_ noise once in the amp as to be unusable!



Will and ebay sellers belong to different dimensions. I learn that Will is a very skilled technician in even high end audio. I was lucky that I found him.

I should have paid for Yamamoto's sockets for him to replace. Each socket to replace is half an hour's labour that cost $95. So that's 7 sockets x $95 not including parts. I need to learn to solder and use those graph machine or whatever you call them.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Will and ebay sellers belong to different dimensions. I learn that Will is a very skilled technician in even high end audio. I was lucky that I found him.
> 
> I should have paid for Yamamoto's sockets for him to replace. Each socket to replace is half an hour's labour that cost $95. So that's 7 sockets x $95 not including parts. I need to learn to solder and use those graph machine or whatever you call them.



It's a oscilloscope put a resistor load and hook the oscilloscope across the resistor and put a sign wave into the input.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> It's a oscilloscope put a resistor load and hook the oscilloscope across the resistor and put a sign wave into the input.



So that is to an engineer what a stethoscope is to a doctor.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> So that is to an engineer what a stethoscope is to a doctor.



Yes I have to have one.
Also have a HP distortion analyzer  And a HP low distortion signal generator.  Use them for design.


----------



## UntilThen

Timtube from review-33 said:-

_*Once you hear F2a11 and EL12, it is very very hard to get back to EL34/KT66.*_

I hope you're right Tim. Don't get me all excited.


----------



## UntilThen

Only 3 hours of usage from a brand new pair of Siemens EL11 with Tung Sol 5998. It's a transcendental experience.  This is really good with Verite.

In the past before I got Deyan's adapters, I run it with dual EL11 to 6sn7 adapter into the 6sn7 slot, with 6 x 6bx7gt. That's equally good too.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> *6Y6GA *
> 66-35                35th week 1966
> 274                   RCA
> 
> $17 for a 6336 is a good price




Yes...$17 is a very nice deal on those 6336 tubes


----------



## UntilThen

EL11 with 6 x 6bx7gt has a slightly different presentation than EL11 with 5998. Tone is tighter with 6bx7s but bass is equally good in a different way. Tighter, taut, harder hitting and impact. 5998 has more bloom but in a good way. It's been a while since I drop EL11s in the drivers seat and what a treat.

You won't be disappointed Monster. Just drop in the GEC u18/u20 rectifier.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Slight typo: I meant 6L6/EL34/KT66/KT77 and not 6V6/EL34/KT66/KT77, although 6V6 as well would be great




I  am much wanting to try a GEC KT77


----------



## UntilThen

I did not expect the Tungsram EL11 to sound different from the Telefunken EL11 but it did. Coming from the Telefunken, the Tungsram feels more relax, not as bright after an hour. Further burn in will no doubt make it even smoother. Still brighter than Philips Miniwatt EL3N but it's gravitating towards that. I didn't want to buy the Tungsram at first but thought I should try it. At 55 euro a pair, it turn out to be a good decision. Tubes are quiet but above all, the magical tone of Tungsram EL11 and 6 x 6bx7gt is just so so good. I might find it hard to switch to 6sn7 if I get used to this.

Here is a picture of Tungsram EL11 with 6 x 6bx7gt.


Next up will RFT EL11. Testing all my EL11s for the first time.


----------



## UntilThen

RFT EL11. Well half a RFT because one did not light and refuse to light up. Combining the RFT EL11 with a Philips Miniwatt EL11. Both slim shape so at least it's quite similar visually. 

By now I can't really tell the differences between brands in tone. They just sound very similar to me. Certainly brighter than Philips Miniwatt EL3N but for me, that is a good thing. In my setup with Verite, that's how I prefer it. It's not particularly bright. I call it details and clarity. 

So certainly looking forward to Berlin. There are more than sufficient tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Well I lost my mind and bought these.  Not even sure what I am going to use them in.
I hold @LordGwyn personally responsible.


----------



## UntilThen

Haha we all lose our minds sometimes. I bought the Western Electric 420A and don't know why I bought it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Some times you can't pass it up might never see these again.
Shure do hope they are not noisy so I can rebuild my preamp and use them.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Some times you can't pass it up might never see these again.
> Shure do hope they are not noisy so I can rebuild my preamp and use them.



The consolation is that you have authentic Telefunken boxes.


----------



## attmci

WE420 to ECC83 to 6SN7. Merry Christmas!


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> and I might consider the Verite Close though I have resisted it much. If not for your persistence...... I'm almost convinced.


 Resistance is only delaying the inevitable. We both know it. 

@gibosi 

Can I get your opinion on sound,price and authenticity of this rectifier?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/312769940262?ul_noapp=true


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Resistance is only delaying the inevitable. We both know it.
> 
> @gibosi
> 
> ...



It appears to be authentic. It is a G2504 manufactured by Valvo in Hamburg in the early 1940's in support of the war effort. However, with the end of the war, the Hamburg plant was shut down and all production was terminated. Shortly thereafter, Philips regained control of this facility, but it appears that they chose not to resume the manufacture of this rectifier.

Compared to similar Telefunken rectifiers, the Valvo has a bit less upper midrange and treble emphasis, but I would still call it bright. These 2504-type rectifiers can provide at most 180ma and are not suitable for use in the GOTL with 6AS7 and equivalents. That said, they are absolutely fine in the GEL3N, and I often use them with four 6BX7 in the GOTL.


----------



## 2359glenn

2359glenn said:


> Well I lost my mind and bought these.  Not even sure what I am going to use them in.
> I hold @LordGwyn personally responsible.



Just ordered these nice sockets for them


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> These 2504-type rectifiers can provide at most 180ma and are not suitable for use in the GOTL with 6AS7 and equivalents. That said, they are absolutely fine in the GEL3N, and I often use them with four 6BX7 in the GOTL.


 Ahh,one of those rectifiers that can only be used w/ 4 6bx7s...I will forget and blow up a city block. Im gonna pass. Thanks Ken.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Ahh,one of those rectifiers that can only be used w/ 4 6bx7s...I will forget and blow up a city block. Im gonna pass. Thanks Ken.



The 4004-types, like the Telefunken RGN4004, Valvo G4004, Klangfilm 77305, Philips AZ50 and Philips 1817 can provide 300ma, which means they are suitable for use in the GOTL with any and all output tubes. However, some of these tend to be expensive....


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Ahh,one of those rectifiers that can only be used w/ 4 6bx7s...*I will forget and blow up a city block*. Im gonna pass. Thanks Ken.


Screw the neighborhood power grid!  Unfortunately, you're more likely to damage your GOTL...


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Just ordered these nice sockets for them



Beauutiful Yamamoto's sockets. Those tubes deserves no less.


----------



## Monsterzero

@L0rdGwyn and @heliosphann 
7802s arrived today. I am looking forward to checking them out. Will roll them in tonight. Thanks for sending them out!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> @L0rdGwyn and @heliosphann
> 7802s arrived today. I am looking forward to checking them out. Will roll them in tonight. Thanks for sending them out!



Awesome, let us know what you think!


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> @L0rdGwyn and @heliosphann
> 7802s arrived today. I am looking forward to checking them out. Will roll them in tonight. Thanks for sending them out!



Next stop Australia. It needs my stamp of approval.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Beauutiful Yamamoto's sockets. Those tubes deserves no less.



There not Yamamoto better made in Korea use this brand on my 300B amps.
Could also use this socket for four volt rectifiers they have one with just 4 pins too


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 16, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Once you've experience Yamamoto's sockets, it's hard to go back to other sockets. The grip is firm and tube insertion and extraction is so so smooth. This is a picture I took of a socket in Studio Six. I believe they are Yamamoto's socket or of a similar teflon material. Just so smooth and yet firm getting tubes in and out.



I believe these are Conex sockets.  Used by Woo and quite a few others.  I chose them for my 45 and think they're good sockets.  The pins are spring loaded so they don't become loose over time.  Very friendly to frequent tube rollers.  They're actually pretty affordable too.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 16, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Watch this and see if you prefer 6L6, EL34 or KT88.




Thanks for posting this.  My preferences here were different than I was expecting them to be.  I was expecting to like the EL34 the most but I don't, it's the KT88 that sounded best to my ears on this test.  Maybe I was on the right track all along after all......

I also found it interesting that the JJ tubes consistently had better tone than the EH ones did.  I thought people kind of looked down on JJ.  The fancy re-issue Mullard and Gold Lion tubes are basically just hot-rodded versions of EH tubes, all made in the same factory in Russia.  Worth keeping in mind maybe.


----------



## Deyan

I actually have a ZIF tube socket somewhere in my workshop. You insert the tube lock the socket and its not going nowhere.


----------



## Monsterzero

@gibosi  Im assuming the GEC U19 cannot be used in the GOTL?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Well I lost my mind and bought these.  Not even sure what I am going to use them in.
> I hold @LordGwyn personally responsible.




There are gorgeous tubes...are those spacers ceramic?


----------



## heliosphann

Guys are killing me. Get caught up in some other things including the first week of football (sry Browns fans) and I've got 700+ posts to read!



UntilThen said:


> I'm running Tung Sol 12SL7GT black glass round plates with a pair of Tung Sol 5998 green letterings. Hexfred build in in GOTL. Similar to Zach's RMAF show setup but without the tube rectifier. Headphone is Verite LTD Pheasant wood Open.
> 
> Very good choice of tubes Zach. This combination in GOTL is stunning with Verite. One of the best.



I found this combo out early with my GOTL/Verite and passed it along to Zach. Always nice to know that you're not the only one hearing how good things are. 



Monsterzero said:


> I typed in AMC 6AS7G and got sent right to it,but his name is whip city tubes.


Just got some tubes from Whip City. Look great and super fast shipping.



Monsterzero said:


> I have that soundtrack. Its quite good,but then again I havent heard too much from Hans Zimmer that I dont like.
> 
> A couple other soundtracks that are great for headphones are:




Yea, great soundtracks, not so great films. Annihilation could have been really good with a slightly tweaked script. Should have been more of a "Heart of Darkness" style affair. The husband sub-plot was dumb as well.
Blade Runner 2049 was rubbish. And the original film is one of my all time favs.


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> Guys are killing me. Get caught up in some other things including the first week of football (sry Browns fans) and I've got 700+ posts to read!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yes!  It's a FULL TIME JOB trying to keep up, here


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 16, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> There are gorgeous tubes...are those spacers ceramic?



Yes no mica ceramic can't wait to play with these.
Going to switch my #26 tubes to these great for my preamp with a gain of 40.
Being they also draw 1 amp filament going to use filament bias. Tie the cathode to the filament and have a 3 ohm resistor to ground.
This males the 3 volts bias with no cathode resistor or nasty bypass capacitor.
This makes for the best sound. This is what I am doing with the 26s but they are direct heated so no cathode connection.
They should make my pre sound and look  great.  These are the best looking tubes I ever seen.


----------



## heliosphann

Yea, a loss tonight would be cataclysmic.


----------



## gibosi (Sep 16, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Screw the neighborhood power grid!  Unfortunately, you're more likely to damage your GOTL...



Actually, it is usually much less dramatic than either of these scenarios. lol. Typically, the rectifier fails and the fuse blows, per Glenn's design. So you simply toss the failed rectifier into the trash, replace the fuse and find another rectifier. So to those who wish to roll rectifiers, make sure you have some extra fuses. I believe Glenn includes extra fuses with the amp. That said, I've only lost three or four rectifiers, so this is a pretty rare event.



Monsterzero said:


> @gibosi  Im assuming the GEC U19 cannot be used in the GOTL?



The GEC U19 is a HALF-WAVE rectifier. You want a FULL-WAVE rectifier. So the U18 is a much better choice (one of the predecessors of the U18/20). I've got a couple of these and they sound great. 

http://tubedata.milbert.com/sheets/060/u/U18.pdf


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Actually, it is usually much less dramatic than either of these scenarios. lol. Typically, the rectifier fails and the fuse blows, per Glenn's design. So you simply toss the failed rectifier into the trash, replace the fuse and find another rectifier. So to those who wish to roll rectifiers, make sure you have some extra fuses. I believe Glenn includes extra fuses with the amp. That said, I've only lost three or four rectifiers, so this is a pretty rare event.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I figured as much. Found a NOS pair for $80.00. Was hoping for the score of a lifetime. Oh well. Thanks Ken.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Yes no mica ceramic can't wait to play with these.
> Going to switch my #26 tubes to these great for my preamp with a gain of 40.
> Being they also draw 1 amp filament going to use filament bias. Tie the cathode to the filament and have a 3 ohm resistor to ground.
> This males the 3 volts bias with no cathode resistor or nasty bypass capacitor.
> ...



I love it when we get really excited about a tube!

You GO Glenn!!  Hope it exceeds your hopes and expectations!


----------



## Monsterzero

@L0rdGwyn @heliosphann 

I tried the TS 7802 briefly with the VC. You guys are correct. Fantastic sounding tubes. Fast,speedy tubes. Unfortunately a small pop came from the VC after about a minute of use. I continued listening for a bit,but became paranoid and removed the 7802s. The tubes and VC are both working fine,but I didnt want to risk one or both having an unfortunate occurrence.

The slam and 3D imaging was very good,but not quite up to a 6 pack of 6BX7s. I recall LG you rolling some 6bx7s+7802s,which I would imagine would be very good,but im going to skip trying it. 
Im gonna continue my search for a pair of my own,but I can happily live with the 6bx7s with the VC. Im gonna get over to the post office hopefully this week and will get them back to you LG. Thank you for sending them out. Please PM me your address.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> There not Yamamoto better made in Korea use this brand on my 300B amps.
> Could also use this socket for four volt rectifiers they have one with just 4 pins too



Oh? Made in Korea and not Yamamoto? They look like teflon material and those gold plated pins and clips are sure quality stuff. Lock them in for Project Berlin.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> The slam and 3D imaging was very good,but not quite up to a 6 pack of 6BX7s. I recall LG you rolling some 6bx7s+7802s,which I would imagine would be very good,but im going to skip trying it.
> Im gonna continue my search for a pair of my own,but I can happily live with the 6bx7s with the VC. Im gonna get over to the post office hopefully this week and will get them back to you LG. Thank you for sending them out. Please PM me your address.



I'm a diehard 6 pack 6BX7 fan. Good to know you're one of them. In my case, they rock with Verite Open with a pair of Tungsram EL11 now. Still undecided over Tungsram or Telefunken EL11 which I prefer more.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> @L0rdGwyn @heliosphann
> 
> I tried the TS 7802 briefly with the VC. You guys are correct. Fantastic sounding tubes. Fast,speedy tubes. Unfortunately a small pop came from the VC after about a minute of use. I continued listening for a bit,but became paranoid and removed the 7802s. The tubes and VC are both working fine,but I didnt want to risk one or both having an unfortunate occurrence.
> 
> ...



Huh, that's weird. I put a lot of hours on those in the last few weeks and didn't have any issues at all. Well, besides getting one to fire up. If you remember which tube it was (or both), give it ye old smack-a-rooni on the base with your palm. Might shake whatever is loose in there.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I'm a diehard 6 pack 6BX7 fan. Good to know you're one of them. In my case, they rock with Verite Open with a pair of Tungsram EL11 now. Still undecided over Tungsram or Telefunken EL11 which I prefer more.


 Youre gonna love them with the VC. 



heliosphann said:


> Huh, that's weird. I put a lot of hours on those in the last few weeks and didn't have any issues at all. Well, besides getting one to fire up. If you remember which tube it was (or both), give it ye old smack-a-rooni on the base with your palm. Might shake whatever is loose in there.


 Nah,if they were my personal pair,you can bet I would,but since both the tubes and VC are on loan I dont want anything bad to happen to either,especially considering how unobtanium the 7802s are.


----------



## heliosphann (Sep 16, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Youre gonna love them with the VC.
> 
> Nah,if they were my personal pair,you can bet I would,but since both the tubes and VC are on loan I dont want anything bad to happen to either,especially considering how unobtanium the 7802s are.



I understand about the VC, but @L0rdGwyn was the one who told me to give em a whoopin' when the one 7802 wouldn't light. lol


----------



## mordy

If a 6336 lights up but has no sound, does it help to whack it?


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Thanks for posting this.  My preferences here were different than I was expecting them to be.  I was expecting to like the EL34 the most but I don't, it's the KT88 that sounded best to my ears on this test.  Maybe I was on the right track all along after all......
> 
> I also found it interesting that the JJ tubes consistently had better tone than the EH ones did.  I thought people kind of looked down on JJ.  The fancy re-issue Mullard and Gold Lion tubes are basically just hot-rodded versions of EH tubes, all made in the same factory in Russia.  Worth keeping in mind maybe.



Very interesting choice there Tyrll. I thought 6L6 sounded best to me but I would have to listen again.


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> I found this combo out early with my GOTL/Verite and passed it along to Zach. Always nice to know that you're not the only one hearing how good things are.



I kept the Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp and Tung Sol 5998 combo in GOTL for more than 2 weeks. In UntilThen's rolling stones world, a combo would have to be more than stellar to remain in the hot seats for that long. They have been elevated to my 'Wall of Flames'.


----------



## heliosphann (Sep 16, 2019)

mordy said:


> If a 6336 lights up but has no sound, does it help to whack it?



Not sure, I'm relatively new to Chris Brown'ing vacuum tubes. I'll have to pass that question on to more experienced persons.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Youre gonna love them with the VC.



I'm going to be like Will. I won't listen to them but I will do it the scientific way. I will do a measurement test of the VC and VO to determine which sound best.

Glenn what instrument do I use to do a SQ test of headphones?


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 16, 2019)

mordy said:


> If a 6336 lights up but has no sound, does it help to whack it?



I'll report you for tube abuse !!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 16, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> @L0rdGwyn @heliosphann
> 
> I tried the TS 7802 briefly with the VC. You guys are correct. Fantastic sounding tubes. Fast,speedy tubes. Unfortunately a small pop came from the VC after about a minute of use. I continued listening for a bit,but became paranoid and removed the 7802s. The tubes and VC are both working fine,but I didnt want to risk one or both having an unfortunate occurrence.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear they gave you a scare, D.  Hopefully you got enough of a sample to have an idea of what you'd be getting.  That pair seems to get agitated during shipment for some reason.  I had @heliosphann give them a little tap to settle any debris and they settled down, you are free to do the same if you like.

Right now what is in my amp is a pair of 7802 with a quad of Fivre 6BX7.  Before that I was living with a quad of 7802, either setup gives excellent dynamics and speed.  The 7802/6BX7 setup will likely be my daily driver output tubes, its nice to mix and match.

I'll shoot you my address!  No rush whatsoever.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
I assume that a TS 6SL7GT BGRP would sound the same as the TS 12SL7GT BGRP. Not long ago I found an overlooked box of maybe a dozen 6SL7 tubes, including 2 TS 6SL7GT BGRP. I rolled a whole bunch of them, including a number of different 6SL7WGT tubes.
To make a long story short, in my system, a National Union "Umbrella Spokes" 6SL7WGT sounded even better than the TS BGRP tubes. If you can find one, it may light up your "Wall of Flames".
Ah, those were the days when you could buy a tube lot for $2-3 a piece.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mr mouse ears has new friends..




His 6 GEC red base special issue 6BL7’s...


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I believe these are Conex sockets.  Used by Woo and quite a few others.  I chose them for my 45 and think they're good sockets.  The pins are spring loaded so they don't become loose over time.  Very friendly to frequent tube rollers.  They're actually pretty affordable too.



Oh. I didn't know that. Learn something new everyday. Thanks !


----------



## heliosphann

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> I assume that a TS 6SL7GT BGRP would sound the same as the TS 12SL7GT BGRP. Not long ago I found an overlooked box of maybe a dozen 6SL7 tubes, including 2 TS 6SL7GT BGRP. I rolled a whole bunch of them, including a number of different 6SL7WGT tubes.
> To make a long story short, in my system, a National Union "Umbrella Spokes" 6SL7WGT sounded even better than the TS BGRP tubes. If you can find one, it may light up your "Wall of Flames".
> Ah, those were the days when you could buy a tube lot for $2-3 a piece.....



What do the "Umbrella Spokes" look like, u know aside from the obvious. hehehe


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I'll report you for tube abuse !!!


Nah, it arrived in that condition, including two accordeon like heat sinks that wrap around the tube:




I already prepared a coffin for it, in case it cannot be revived:


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Very interesting choice there Tyrll. I thought 6L6 sounded best to me but I would have to listen again.



I intend to listen again actually.  First impressions can't always be trusted.


----------



## mordy

heliosphann said:


> What do the "Umbrella Spokes" look like, u know aside from the obvious. hehehe


This is my daily driver now - you can see the spokes hanging down from the middle mica:



There are four of them - don't know the function.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I kept the Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp and Tung Sol 5998 combo in GOTL for more than 2 weeks. In UntilThen's rolling stones world, a combo would have to be more than stellar to remain in the hot seats for that long. They have been elevated to my 'Wall of Flames'.



12SL7 has a gain of 70?  That works okay with 5998's?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> I assume that a TS 6SL7GT BGRP would sound the same as the TS 12SL7GT BGRP. Not long ago I found an overlooked box of maybe a dozen 6SL7 tubes, including 2 TS 6SL7GT BGRP. I rolled a whole bunch of them, including a number of different 6SL7WGT tubes.
> To make a long story short, in my system, a National Union "Umbrella Spokes" 6SL7WGT sounded even better than the TS BGRP tubes. If you can find one, it may light up your "Wall of Flames".
> Ah, those were the days when you could buy a tube lot for $2-3 a piece.....



Yes I believe TS 6SL7Gt bgrp would sound similar to 12SL7Gt bgrp.

I also believe that I have a pair of National Union 6sn7gt bgrp. That's what @Oskari told me back in the days when I was using them in Elise.  Gonna blame Oskari for any wrong disclosure. 

I'm not sure if they are the NU 'Umbrella Spokes' you are referring to. See pictures of it below. One is branded Raytheon and the other Magnovox. They have a rectangular getter at the base. You can see that in the picture too. I'm getting better with my iPhone X ha !


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I intend to listen again actually.  First impressions can't always be trusted.



I had another listen and it's obvious that I prefer the JJ branded tubes over the EH.

My order of preference would be JJ 6L6GC, JJ EL34 L, JJ KT88 though IMO there are none that are bad sounding there. 6L6 sounds most harmonious and pleasant to the ears, EL34 is a close 2nd. KT88 is more vibrant and has more energy.

I'm not sure if the amp is bias for a specific set of tubes. In the following video, this guru explains why it is necessary to bias correctly for a certain set of tubes for optimum results.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 16, 2019)

Harmonic profile - I learn a new terminology today. 

From Wikipedia
A *harmonic spectrum* is a spectrum containing only frequency components whose frequencies are whole number multiples of the fundamental frequency; such frequencies are known as harmonics. "The individual partials are not heard separately but are blended together by the ear into a single tone.

Ok that's too hard. I'll go back to my profession.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 16, 2019)

Here is a pair of 12J5’s that arrived today.  Sold as a clean matched pair from 1955.

Adapter not here yet so have not heard them...





Construction appears to be nearly identical.  I do see mica differences.

One has getter flash, the other has no trace of getter flash.

How does that happen?


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I had another listen and it's obvious that I prefer the JJ branded tubes over the EH.
> 
> My order of preference would be JJ 6L6GC, JJ EL34 L, JJ KT88 though IMO there are none that are bad sounding there. 6L6 sounds most harmonious and pleasant to the ears, EL34 is a close 2nd. KT88 is more vibrant and has more energy.
> 
> I'm not sure if the amp is bias for a specific set of tubes



Nice vid.  He reminds me of my electronics class teacher...long ago


----------



## UntilThen

Hmmm AUD$25 each for a c3g. Wonder if I should get another naked pair because mine are fully clothed.

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/292436-c3g-and-c3m-valves/


----------



## Phantaminum

Won this Mullard Metal Base GZ34. Oh, baby this is what the doctor ordered. Livened up the top end on the Verite and has good punch without sounding too warm or bassy. Just right.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Harmonic profile - I learn a new terminology today.
> 
> From Wikipedia
> A *harmonic spectrum* is a spectrum containing only frequency components whose frequencies are whole number multiples of the fundamental frequency; such frequencies are known as harmonics. "The individual partials are not heard separately but are blended together by the ear into a single tone.
> ...



Just think of it in terms of halving and doubling.  Those are the harmonics of a note.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Won this Mullard Metal Base GZ34. Oh, baby this is what the doctor ordered. Livened up the top end on the Verite and has good punch without sounding too warm or bassy. Just right.




I’m so jealous. I want a GZ34 metal base now.... cheap


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> I had another listen and it's obvious that I prefer the JJ branded tubes over the EH.
> 
> My order of preference would be JJ 6L6GC, JJ EL34 L, JJ KT88 though IMO there are none that are bad sounding there. 6L6 sounds most harmonious and pleasant to the ears, EL34 is a close 2nd. KT88 is more vibrant and has more energy.
> 
> I'm not sure if the amp is bias for a specific set of tubes. In the following video, this guru explains why it is necessary to bias correctly for a certain set of tubes for optimum results.




Listening to it again on speakers, I now agree with your ordering.  The 6L6 is cleaner and highlights transients, the EL34 has more subtle delineation in the mids and more ambience/layering, and the KT88 just sounds muddy.  The impression changes a lot depending on what you listen to the samples with.  On headphones I liked the tone of the KT88 and disliked the EL34 tone, but on speakers my impression is very different.  

I wonder how underbiased that KT88 is though.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Yes I believe TS 6SL7Gt bgrp would sound similar to 12SL7Gt bgrp.
> 
> I also believe that I have a pair of National Union 6sn7gt bgrp. That's what @Oskari told me back in the days when I was using them in Elise.  Gonna blame Oskari for any wrong disclosure.
> 
> I'm not sure if they are the NU 'Umbrella Spokes' you are referring to. See pictures of it below. One is branded Raytheon and the other Magnovox. They have a rectangular getter at the base. You can see that in the picture too. I'm getting better with my iPhone X ha !


Hi UT,
The NU tubes pictured are of a very different construction. I don't have the NU 6SN7 (well - I had one, but when I dropped it I realized that it was not built to the same specifications as the Russian equivalents - it shattered), but I have the NU 6SL7 which look like your tubes.
The NU 6SL7WGT I have is from 1953 and could very well be among the last tubes manufactured by National Union before it was sold in 1954.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> The NU tubes pictured are of a very different construction. I don't have the NU 6SN7 (well - I had one, but when I dropped it I realized that it was not built to the same specifications as the Russian equivalents - it shattered), but I have the NU 6SL7 which look like your tubes.
> The NU 6SL7WGT I have is from 1953 and could very well be among the last tubes manufactured by National Union before it was sold in 1954.



Mordy...since the 6SL7 is mu 70, what powers do you use with it?


----------



## heliosphann

Oh yea. All Tung-Sol roll for the Verite. Huge sound and great extension on both ends.

 12SL7GT BGRP, 3DG4 and 6520's.


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Oh yea. All Tung-Sol roll for the Verite. Huge sound and great extension on both ends.
> 
> 12SL7GT BGRP, 3DG4 and 6520's.



Very classy. We need to see more photos from you.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Mordy...since the 6SL7 is mu 70, what powers do you use with it?


I use your patented Troika driver configuration with the rhythm section (powers) consisting of 4x6080 (RCA/Bendix). 
With all the talk about EL11, I substituted a pair of RFT EL11 for the EL8 tubes I have been using. First impression is more forward and more treble energy. 
To test it out I looked for something and found a fun and interesting Taiwanese symphonic orchestra recording of A Persian Market with a rising star Russian (Turkmenistan) conductor.
Many of the instruments are unfamiliar to me - all kinds of unusual string instruments that sound like violins, huge mandolin like instruments, trumpets (?) that look like clarinets, and something that looks like tall wedding cakes (saxophones (?) - look at 5.05) etc etc. Maybe somebody knows the names of these instruments - they all sound like the regular Western stuff, but look very different.

Need more time to get a better impression of the sound - without the NU 6SL7WGT the sound was thinner and too bright, but this configuration sounds very good so far with a wide soundstage.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Listening to it again on speakers, I now agree with your ordering.  The 6L6 is cleaner and highlights transients, the EL34 has more subtle delineation in the mids and more ambience/layering, and the KT88 just sounds muddy.  The impression changes a lot depending on what you listen to the samples with.  On headphones I liked the tone of the KT88 and disliked the EL34 tone, but on speakers my impression is very different.
> 
> I wonder how underbiased that KT88 is though.



I just realise I have a very good pair of super monitor with me for nearfield listening. Why didn't I listen to this test with that? 

Ok I'll do that now. Axis Voicebox S driven by Sansui AU-717, source Yggdrasil. Music station by Bill Gates.

My away from home setup. Happiness is a cave to listen to music with. Any cave will do !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

heliosphann said:


> Oh yea. All Tung-Sol roll for the Verite. Huge sound and great extension on both ends.
> 
> 12SL7GT BGRP, 3DG4 and 6520's.



Looking good, H!!

What amp is just to the right?


----------



## UntilThen

The monitor flanked by 2 headphones.    No place to put the HD800 lol.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> The NU tubes pictured are of a very different construction. I don't have the NU 6SN7 (well - I had one, but when I dropped it I realized that it was not built to the same specifications as the Russian equivalents - it shattered), but I have the NU 6SL7 which look like your tubes.
> The NU 6SL7WGT I have is from 1953 and could very well be among the last tubes manufactured by National Union before it was sold in 1954.



Yes your NU 6SL7WGT is a rare bred. It's a good find no doubt.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I use your patented Troika driver configuration with the rhythm section (powers) consisting of 4x6080 (RCA/Bendix).
> With all the talk about EL11, I substituted a pair of RFT EL11 for the EL8 tubes I have been using. First impression is more forward and more treble energy.
> To test it out I looked for something and found a fun and interesting Taiwanese symphonic orchestra recording of A Persian Market with a rising star Russian (Turkmenistan) conductor.
> Many of the instruments are unfamiliar to me - all kinds of unusual string instruments that sound like violins, huge mandolin like instruments, trumpets (?) that look like clarinets, and something that looks like tall wedding cakes (saxophones (?) - look at 5.05) etc etc. Maybe somebody knows the names of these instruments - they all sound like the regular Western stuff, but look very different.
> ...




Some very interesting Eastern Intrigue, you found there, Mordy!    
5:05 - definitely not saxophones 
Many instruments that I am not familiar with, as well.   They play them, well..!


----------



## mordy

Little more experience with the EL11 in the mix - the soundstage is huge; R-L, front-back and even some illusion of height. A drop bright with the RFT tubes - tomorrow I will try TFK and maybe Valvo and Tungsram. I may also have Philips and Loewe-Opta to try.


----------



## UntilThen

I swear if I listen one more time to the guitar tune, I'll throw up. So it's back to a classic song on speakers.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Little more experience with the EL11 in the mix - the soundstage is huge; R-L, front-back and even some illusion of height. A drop bright with the RFT tubes - tomorrow I will try TFK and maybe Valvo and Tungsram. I may also have Philips and Loewe-Opta to try.



I did that with the different brands of EL11 yesterday and I got even more sick. So today, it's just Tungsram EL11 with 6 x 6bx7gt in GOTL and I'm listening to music.

But you go right ahead and share with the community your impressions of the various brands of EL11s.


----------



## heliosphann

JazzVinyl said:


> Looking good, H!!
> 
> What amp is just to the right?



Thanks!

DNA Stratus


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Thanks!
> 
> *DNA Stratus*



That's the one that eluded me. I waited 8 months after paying the deposit for it but I pull out when I fell into the Sansui rabbit hole. Now I'll forever wonder how a DNA Stratus sound like. I have no doubt that it will be great and Donald North is just an awesome person to deal with.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Hey Ut. Good to talk to you again. Sometimes I think I'm insane chasing my audio dream. Then I think of you!
> LOL



Kind of prophetic the words of aqsw. At that point of ordering Euforia - Jan 10th 2017, I did not have a clue that there will be so many amps that followed after Euforia. If you had ask me then, I'd have said 'No way'. 

Berlin will be the last. It will be the finale.


----------



## Xcalibur255

heliosphann said:


> Thanks!
> 
> DNA Stratus



Yep, that blue is pretty distinctive.  I have been tempted to ask Landfall Systems if they can anodize in colors other than black.  Back in 2014 they advertised the ability, but they don't anymore.  A powdercoated paint finish would also be a nice look and a good change of pace from black ano.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 17, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I just realise I have a very good pair of super monitor with me for nearfield listening. Why didn't I listen to this test with that?
> 
> Ok I'll do that now. Axis Voicebox S driven by Sansui AU-717, source Yggdrasil. Music station by Bill Gates.
> 
> My away from home setup. Happiness is a cave to listen to music with. Any cave will do !!!



I remember you speaking fondly of the Axis Voicebox speakers.  Life is good when you are surrounded by good speakers.

I hate to say it but I have really pivoted away from headphones lately.  I listened to them almost exclusively for some years now due to the apartment living situation, but my heart has always been in speakers.

It has been a painful process devoid of the fun I was hoping it could have been, but my efforts with the nearfield listening setup are finally bearing fruit.  The Omegas are sounding REALLY good these days.  I was very much expecting some "gotchas" or downsides to the whole fullrange single driver thing, but I'm really not hearing any at this point.  They are emotive, immersive and shockingly revealing of minute details in the music.  Wonderfully realistic timbre especially on acoustic guitar and piano which are my favorite instruments to listen to.  What is missing now is one of Glenn's fine amps to finish this whole thing off, but the amp that is driving the speakers now is working out okay despite a weird and very annoying compatibility issue it has with the DAC.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 17, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> I remember you speaking fondly of the Axis Voicebox speakers.  Life is good when you are surrounded by good speakers.



I know John Reilly through a close friend named Andrew. They came to my place because Andrew told John that my 20 years old Axis LS88 that John produce in the 1990s, had the foam surround on the mid range drivers deteriorating and need replacing. The LS88 is in MINT condition and is in solid Rosewood and not wood veneer. It's probably the last surviving LS88 in this as new condition. So naturally John was keen to see his 1990s creation at my place. The LS88 isn't made anymore. So they came and we had a good chat. They remove the midrange drivers (2 from each speaker) and took them to Len Wallis to have the foam replace with rubber surround. Then they brought it back to my place 2 weeks later and re-solder it back to the speakers.

And we sat down to listen to Led Zeppelin on vinyl because John is an old classic rocker. We listen to 'Stairways To Heaven'. Turntable is Rega RP8 with Apheta moving coil cartridge and Avid Pellar phono. Amp is Redgum Rgi120enr black series. The integrated amp is capable of 265 watts rms into 4 ohms. LS88 is a 4ohms load and can handle up to 300 watts. The family was away and so the 3 of us sat down to listen. The volume was crank up. When the song reach 6:00 on the video (for illustration because we were listening to a 180gm vinyl version), all 3 of us raise our eye brows in wonderment. It was stunning. No headphone will give me that experience. It's a gut filling moment.

After the listening session, John told me he now produce the Axis Voicebox S and said he could get it for me if I was interested. Said he can bring a pair over for me to audition. The smile on my face lit up like the brightest moon. So 2 weeks later John came again armed with the VoiceBox and very quickly we set it up and listen to many audiophile tracks. I was blown away. I can hear everything. I mean EVERYTHING. Haha. So that's how I bought it. In the USA, both Redgum and Axis Voicebox are distributed by an agent. Can't remember the name off hand now.

Phew such a long story. Can't believe I type all that !

Axis LS88 is the floor standing speaker in the photo. It's a dippolito design speakers where the tweeter is in the middle, sandwiched by the midrange and bass woofers. The bookshelf speaker on stand is the Axis LS28, a very good sounding bookshelf speakers.



Axis Voicebox S is in the photo below with Sansui au-alpha 907mr
Review by 6moon - https://6moons.com/audioreviews2/axis/1.html


Redgum Rgi120enr black series in the photo below


Go to 6:00 of the song where Jimmy Page magic guitar playing is let loose.


----------



## UntilThen

If I thought my 2 channel stereo speakers system sounded good enough for me, that was completely erased when I went to the house of the gentleman who sold me his ALO Audio Studio Six. He was kind enough to let me have the centre seat in the room. The sweet spot so he says. Speakers are SGR active speakers - Australian made and sold internationally. The room acoustics is professionally installed. Bass traps behind luxurious curtains. Electrician cable the music room and power supply was isolated from the rest of house. Rich carpets and sound deadening wall panels were carefully place for best acoustics and visual looks. It's a beautiful room with a minimalist look. The centre piece gear comprise of Sudgen preamp, a DAC, SOTM sms-200 Ultra. Harddrives in a separate room is connected to the SOTM via ethernet cables, all neatly concealed under the house. Specially done by electricians.

This is not the most expensive system I've seen. Far from it. However it could be the best sound system I've heard. It resolves complex music and simple acoustical vocals better than any TOTL headphone I've heard. 3 dimensional soundstage and imaging is nigh perfect. If I had this system, I will give up my head-fi system. No comparison. Room acoustics is the key. I can't achieve that so the next best thing is a TOTL headphone because once that is on my head, I have the best head acoustics. No sound deadening required with headphones. 

SGR active speakers.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> The Omegas are sounding REALLY good these days.



That's all that matters. If you like the way your speakers sound, that is good !  For Berlin, I'm contemplating getting a Zu Omens Dirty Weekend in blue because the colour is wicked. However I'm going to see if Berlin with 10 watts can drive the Voicebox at nearfield listening to a musical level. I don't need it loud but it has to be clear. If it can do that then I do not need another pair of speakers.


----------



## 2359glenn

This amp will eaily drive the Zu Omens Dirty Weekend. I done it with the EL3N and it sounded good could have used a little more volume.
That was with 3 watts.  I am not saying it will compete with your big SS systems. Maybe with SQ.


----------



## UntilThen

That's good. Nothing like a sweet sounding tube amp driving a pair of high efficiency speakers for nearfield listening. I think it's even capable of filling the room to adequate level.


----------



## 2359glenn

Even with 3 watts with the Zu's it as more then enough volume for most of my listening. I don't blast much any more but with the right song you have to crank it up.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Even with 3 watts with the Zu's it as more then enough volume for most of my listening. I don't blast much any more but with the right song you have to crank it up.



Yes pretty much what you've already said but this guy says it's the synergy between a single ended tube amp (class a) with a pair of high efficiency speakers sounds great. So a SET amp typically outputs between 2 to 10 watts and that's enough with a pair of high efficiency speakers. (+95db)


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Yes pretty much what you've already said but this guy says it's the synergy between a single ended tube amp (class a) with a pair of high efficiency speakers sounds great. So a SET amp typically outputs between 2 to 10 watts and that's enough with a pair of high efficiency speakers. (+95db)




I forget what the efficiency of the Zu's are but were quite loud with 3 watts.  I actually had to turn them down as it was to loud for normal listening.
With most any speaker you are usually listening at under 1 watt.  Unless they were crazy inefficant.
The zu's sound great hooked to SET's


----------



## inonio

How do I go about getting a @2359glenn amp? Is there a waitlist I can add myself to?


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Yes pretty much what you've already said but this guy says it's the synergy between a single ended tube amp (class a) with a pair of high efficiency speakers sounds great. So a SET amp typically outputs between 2 to 10 watts and that's enough with a pair of high efficiency speakers. (+95db)




The opposite of high effeciency speakers is way better:


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 17, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> I forget what the efficiency of the Zu's are but were quite loud with 3 watts.  I actually had to turn them down as it was to loud for normal listening.
> With most any speaker you are usually listening at under 1 watt.  Unless they were crazy inefficant.
> The zu's sound great hooked to SET's



Here it is Glenn. Zu Omen is a super highly efficient speakers that is SET tube amp friendly. 97 db !!!

https://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/omen-dirty-weekend-2

*OMEN DW MK.II QUICK SPECS*
Height: 36” [91.5 cm]
Footprint: 12 x 12” [30.5 x 30.5 cm]
Weight: 54 pounds [24 kg] each
Bandwidth: 35 – 25 kHz
Efficiency: 97 dB-SPL 1W, 1m
Impedance: 12 ohm
Power Amp Range: 4 – 300 watt
Made by us in Ogden, Utah—U.S.A.


----------



## UntilThen

inonio said:


> How do I go about getting a @2359glenn amp? Is there a waitlist I can add myself to?



Hi there, welcome. To order a Glenn amp, you private message Glenn at that userid and tell him what you want and he will reply. Cheers.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> That's all that matters. If you like the way your speakers sound, that is good !  For Berlin, I'm contemplating getting a Zu Omens Dirty Weekend in blue because the colour is wicked. However I'm going to see if Berlin with 10 watts can drive the Voicebox at nearfield listening to a musical level. I don't need it loud but it has to be clear. If it can do that then I do not need another pair of speakers.



Do consider looking at Louis's (the owner of Omega) Alnico driver speakers as well before buying.  He will do just about any custom finish you can imagine.  I saw a birds eye maple veneer that was stained blue on his instagram account recently that was jaw dropping.  Made my decision to go with ebony macassar seem downright boring by comparison.  The Alnicos are specifically designed to be low power tube amp friendly and take the best things about the tube experience and make them even better.

Now that I've said that, I also need to say I have not heard the Zu Omens.  I seriously considered them before I stumbled upon Omega.  From a great deal of reading the general consensus seems to be that Zu speakers are more forward and dynamic where as if you are seeking a more organic and layered experience then Omegas are the ticket.  This is just my personal opinion but I have never heard a "forward" sounding speaker that sounds authentic when it comes to instrument timbre.  Fun, yes, but over time that feeling of them not quite sounding truthful creeps in.

Omega seems to sail under a great deal of people's radars and they are so good for the price and purpose so I have this urge to play salesman for them now.


----------



## mordy (Sep 17, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Do consider looking at Louis's (the owner of Omega) Alnico driver speakers as well before buying.  He will do just about any custom finish you can imagine.  I saw a birds eye maple veneer that was stained blue on his instagram account recently that was jaw dropping.  Made my decision to go with ebony macassar seem downright boring by comparison.  The Alnicos are specifically designed to be low power tube amp friendly and take the best things about the tube experience and make them even better.
> 
> Now that I've said that, I also need to say I have not heard the Zu Omens.  I seriously considered them before I stumbled upon Omega.  From a great deal of reading the general consensus seems to be that Zu speakers are more forward and dynamic where as if you are seeking a more organic and layered experience then Omegas are the ticket.  This is just my personal opinion but I have never heard a "forward" sounding speaker that sounds authentic when it comes to instrument timbre.  Fun, yes, but over time that feeling of them not quite sounding truthful creeps in.
> 
> ...


----------



## mordy

More exploring of EL11 territory - going from the obvious to the oblivious....
A pair of circa 1950 Telefunken Skyscraper style EL11 tubes (the right one was made in Ulm Nov 1950; left unknown but looks very similar):




Thought that they have opaque black glass, but just discovered something inside - only visible from a certain angle; somethin' is cooking....


----------



## OctavianH

I hope these straight glass EL11 are sounding good because I wait also for a pair.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 17, 2019)

@mordy 

I have what's called the CAM (Compact Alnico Monitor), but mine is customized too.  I didn't care for the wide baffle shape on the CAM enclosure so I had Louis sub the Alnico driver into the enclosure for the Super 7 Mk2 which has about the same internal cubic volume but is made to a more traditional "golden ratio" shape.  This is a fairly common customization people ask for he told me.


----------



## mordy

OctavianH said:


> I hope these straight glass EL11 are sounding good because I wait also for a pair.


I am sure that you know by now that the same tube may sound different in different amps. When I tried them in my Euforia I did not think that it sounded special, but using them in the GOTL they shine; especially the clarity, detail, bass and treble energy, and very quick dynamics.
I am still forming an opinion about these tubes and want to give them some time to wake up - after all they have been sleeping for about 70 years.....


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Do consider looking at Louis's (the owner of Omega) Alnico driver speakers as well before buying.  He will do just about any custom finish you can imagine.  I saw a birds eye maple veneer that was stained blue on his instagram account recently that was jaw dropping.  Made my decision to go with ebony macassar seem downright boring by comparison.  The Alnicos are specifically designed to be low power tube amp friendly and take the best things about the tube experience and make them even better.
> 
> Now that I've said that, I also need to say I have not heard the Zu Omens.  I seriously considered them before I stumbled upon Omega.  From a great deal of reading the general consensus seems to be that Zu speakers are more forward and dynamic where as if you are seeking a more organic and layered experience then Omegas are the ticket.  This is just my personal opinion but I have never heard a "forward" sounding speaker that sounds authentic when it comes to instrument timbre.  Fun, yes, but over time that feeling of them not quite sounding truthful creeps in.
> 
> Omega seems to sail under a great deal of people's radars and they are so good for the price and purpose so I have this urge to play salesman for them now.



I had a quick look the other day at the store 'buy now' and every speaker is sold out except for *Super 7 MK2 Monitor in Sapele.
*
Looks nice though and with a nice stand it's the works. Yeah if I had to buy a pair of speakers I may consider Omega but I was hoping to use something already in my stables. Last thing I want to do is roll speakers. 

This is the Axis LS28 which I may be able to use. It's not high efficiency but let's see if 10 sweet watts can drive it. 
 

The Whaferdale Diamond 10.1 is not as good but still  ... and that Sansui AU-7700 is now with @UsoppNoKami who's putting it to good use I hope. The best value amp I had


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> @mordy
> 
> I have what's called the CAM (Compact Alnico Monitor), but mine is customized too.  I didn't care for the wide baffle shape on the CAM enclosure so I had Louis sub the Alnico driver into the enclosure for the Super 7 Mk2 which has about the same internal cubic volume but is made to a more traditional "golden ratio" shape.  This is a fairly common customization people ask for he told me.


Can you share a photo here?
Also, how good are they for near-field?  I have ELAC UB5 pair, but they are very in-efficient, and IMHO not great for near field (but are great from 10-15 feet away)... so you and UT got me thinking...


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I had a quick look the other day at the store 'buy now' and every speaker is sold out except for *Super 7 MK2 Monitor in Sapele.
> *
> Looks nice though and with a nice stand it's the works. Yeah if I had to buy a pair of speakers I may consider Omega but I was hoping to use something already in my stables. Last thing I want to do is roll speakers.
> 
> ...


Are you considering using the Glenn amp as a preamp and plugging in the 85W/ch Sansui AU717?


----------



## UntilThen

By now you must have known I like to view Kenrick Sound Youtube videos. Someday for retirement, this would be nice. Nice song too.

Just as I was typing this, saw @Zachik post. Well sell everything and buy this Tannoy and get yourself a nice amp to drive it.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Are you considering using the Glenn amp as a preamp and plugging in the 85W/ch Sansui AU717?



Nope. Why would I when Berlin would and should drive the Omega or Zu Omen easily and probably sound better than the Sansui AU-717. Now the Sansui club will surely terminate my membership.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> Nope. Why would I when Berlin would and should drive the Omega or Zu Omen easily and probably sound better than the Sansui AU-717. Now the Sansui club will surely terminate my membership.



Well I'll keep the options open. Berlin will have speakers out binding posts as well as preamp out function. Then I can preamp out to Sansui au-alpha 907mr or the au-717 if I want to but I think I like to keep it simple. KISS is my philosophy as with most things in my life except for the zillions of tubes I've amassed - now that ain't KISS. That's death wish !!!.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Berlin would and should drive the Omega or Zu Omen easily


Yeah - my upcoming build (need to come up with an appropriate name for it... UT, feel free to PM suggestions ) should power a pair of bookshelf speakers as well.
Will try it first with my very inefficient ELACs, and if not happy - I will start a new research project to find the right nearfield (maybe the Omega or Zu Omen)...


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Yeah - my upcoming build (need to come up with an appropriate name for it... UT, feel free to PM suggestions ) should power a pair of bookshelf speakers as well.
> Will try it first with my very inefficient ELACs, and if not happy - I will start a new research project to find the right nearfield (maybe the Omega or Zu Omen)...



I like cities. As Philips Miniwatt has it's history in the Netherlands, you have a choice of:-


Amsterdam
Rotterdam
Hague
Utrecht
Eindhoven


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> I like cities. As Philips Miniwatt has it's history in the Netherlands, you have a choice of:-
> 
> 
> Amsterdam
> ...


I will keep thinking about it... None of the above names caused the "light-bulb" effect needed in order to be set in stone


----------



## UntilThen

Those who choose to go with GEC tubes should call their amps Buckingham.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> I will keep thinking about it... None of the above names caused the "light-bulb" effect needed in order to be set in stone



Hmmm you're hard to please. Ok to be set in stone, call it Stonehenge.


----------



## UntilThen

@Zachik you should share your upcoming build with the good folks here. When I first heard the idea from you, my ears pop. I think you've something great going there.


----------



## UntilThen

When I get Berlin, this is how I want to enjoy my music. Connect my Rega Rp8 to it and spin my LPs. Vinyl and tube amps are like identical twins.

I still have this Sony STR-7035 receiver.


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 17, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> That's all that matters. If you like the way your speakers sound, that is good !  For Berlin, I'm contemplating getting a Zu Omens Dirty Weekend in blue because the colour is wicked. However I'm going to see if Berlin with 10 watts can drive the Voicebox at nearfield listening to a musical level. I don't need it loud but it has to be clear. If it can do that then I do not need another pair of speakers.



This is why the Zu's worked well with the EL3N amp.  BTW I did not get the blue ones I would have been thrown out.
The 2 watt input is great for SET's like my 8 watt 300Bs at least till change them to EL12spez


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> This is why the Zu's worked well with the EL3N amp. *BTW I did not get the blue ones I would have been thrown out*.



I have to laugh at that.


----------



## 2359glenn

Personally I think the blue ones would be neat.
What will your wife say about blue speakers in your living room???


----------



## UntilThen

She would think I've lost it and I'll get thrown out too. Then we can both go somewhere and start a factory for Glenn Studios. It will be cool. I'll learn to use the oscilloscope and solder.


----------



## 2359glenn

Were out !!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Were out !!



Sometimes with colour you have to be bold. That speakers in blue is very striking. I wonder if our Verite is in that blue, whether it will sound better?


----------



## 2359glenn

They look cool now but in 6 months might say what did I do have I lost my mind.
Can you sell blue speakers if you get sick of blue??


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> I had a quick look the other day at the store 'buy now' and every speaker is sold out except for *Super 7 MK2 Monitor in Sapele.
> *


You can't really buy in stock speakers from Omega, they are all build to order.  I think the only reason he has the buy it now store area is to sell demos and the odd pair that was built off demand for whatever reason.


----------



## Xcalibur255

https://www.instagram.com/p/By0FQblpGBo/?utm_source=ig_web_options_share_sheet

Tell me this isn't a good looking speaker......


----------



## Xcalibur255

Zachik said:


> Can you share a photo here?
> Also, how good are they for near-field?  I have ELAC UB5 pair, but they are very in-efficient, and IMHO not great for near field (but are great from 10-15 feet away)... so you and UT got me thinking...



I took a photo when I completely redid my computer desk setup.  I'll see if I can find it.

They are amazing for near field and I bought them specifically for that use.  The soundstage is huge even when sitting close to them, and has just as much depth as it does width.  The imaging is downright spooky, this is probably the best trick for these single driver speakers.  No crossover components to get in the way.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 17, 2019)

I hate posting on my phone but sometimes it must be done.

edit:  *sigh* and it didn't load........  Guess I'll email the images to myself and try again.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 17, 2019)

Both the phone and its operator take lousy pictures, but hopefully this gives you an idea.

The whole plan was to get everything on a single desk like you see here.  My amps used to sit off to the right on the grey steel cart you can see in the left background, forming a kind of weird 'L' shape I sat within.  It honestly didn't work badly and had the benefit of keeping headphone cables off to the side, but I wanted something more condensed and this is how it turned out.

The picture of the speaker itself is technically from before I changed the desk.  You can see the computer desk is glass in that image.

Also now you all know exactly how small my apartment is because yes that is the kitchen directly behind the desk.    You would think this location would be bad for sound quality but it's actually amazing.  The distance to the kitchen wall means there is no comb filtering effect, and there are no direct reflections from any other surface at the listening location.  The left and rear walls are too far away and the right one is close enough that the first reflection point ends up missing you.  So the setup is surprisingly free of interference from the room itself despite how bad it seems like it would be.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Hey Matt, since you are looking at speakers, why not look at Voxativ as well? I think they are also really highly regarded for single driver designs.

https://voxativ.berlin/


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/By0FQblpGBo/?utm_source=ig_web_options_share_sheet
> 
> Tell me this isn't a good looking speaker......


No idea how it sounds, but that is the most striking speaker I have seen!! Not kidding - I want THIS one...


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> @Zachik you should share your upcoming build with the good folks here. When I first heard the idea from you, my ears pop. I think you've something great going there.


OK... OK... I was hoping to post something after getting it, along with photos, but since I need a cool name for it - here goes:
Glenn is going to build for me a "Super GEL3N" (temporary name). Built on the same "platform" as the standard GEL3N, but add 2 more EL3N tubes for extra power to drive speakers. Total of 6 x EL3N tubes!!! 

Headphone out - still going to be 1-tube / 2-tube like standard GEL3N, but for speaker taps - it will use 3 tubes per channel.

How about this twist as a clever name: 6EL3N ?  
(I am officially opening the mic for name suggestions. This beauty MUST have a good name!)


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/By0FQblpGBo/?utm_source=ig_web_options_share_sheet
> 
> Tell me this isn't a good looking speaker......



I'm drooling now even though I'm unwell.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 17, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Both the phone and its operator take lousy pictures, but hopefully this gives you an idea.
> 
> The whole plan was to get everything on a single desk like you see here.  My amps used to sit off to the right on the grey steel cart you can see in the left background, forming a kind of weird 'L' shape I sat within.  It honestly didn't work badly and had the benefit of keeping headphone cables off to the side, but I wanted something more condensed and this is how it turned out.
> 
> ...




I don't get it. Why didn't you share this with us earlier. Wait let me rephrase it. Why didn't you share this with me earlier?

I haven't seen your 45 amp before so thanks for the picture. I think it looks awesome and can imagine it will sound awesome as with all of Glenn build. Then there's my beloved Yggdrasil. I know you've upgraded to version 2. I haven't because I love it exactly as it is. If it ain't broken, don't fix it, is my philosophy.  The other amp I'm not familiar with. Looks interesting though.

The Omega looks gorgeous. And the apartment ... who needs it any bigger. I think it looks lovely and perfect for chilling out with your music. One that I would love to be in.

Once again thanks for sharing your private life. I have shown so many pictures of my home. Probably the only place at home I haven't shared is the toilet !

Oh the stand for your monitor. It's perfect !!! I need one for my monitor. I need a new desk.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> OK... OK... I was hoping to post something after getting it, along with photos, but since I need a cool name for it - here goes:
> Glenn is going to build for me a "Super GEL3N" (temporary name). Built on the same "platform" as the standard GEL3N, but add 2 more EL3N tubes for extra power to drive speakers. Total of 6 x EL3N tubes!!!
> 
> Headphone out - still going to be 1-tube / 2-tube like standard GEL3N, but for speaker taps - it will use 3 tubes per channel.
> ...



I like this build because of it's simplicity and I think there will be more than sufficient power to drive Omega or Zu Omen to loud levels. In essence this will sound great and not that dissimilar to Berlin but Vienna will be more melodious whereas Berlin will have more bite.

So names suggestion from me are:- Vienna, Mozart or Beethoven.


----------



## heliosphann

Is this Head-fi or Speaker-fi???

Sorry, I had to bring it up...


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Is this Head-fi or Speaker-fi???
> 
> Sorry, I had to bring it up...



I'm sorry it's now become Harmonic-Fi.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey Matt, since you are looking at speakers, why not look at Voxativ as well? I think they are also really highly regarded for single driver designs.
> 
> https://voxativ.berlin/



Hello Sam, most generous of you to think of ways for my wallet to flow but they sure looks the goods. Why don't you buy it and I'll come and listen to it. As a matter of fact, I'm visiting Singapore and Malaysia in June 2020 again so I will make sure that I will try to meet you then.

Btw any clue what custom build that you've discussed with Glenn for your next amp?


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> Hello Sam, most generous of you to think of ways for my wallet to flow but they sure looks the goods. Why don't you buy it and I'll come and listen to it. As a matter of fact, I'm visiting Singapore and Malaysia in June 2020 again so I will make sure that I will try to meet you then.
> 
> Btw any clue what custom build that you've discussed with Glenn for your next amp?



I was looking at them seriously as I wanted to drive them with my GEL3N and the HugoTT2 but decided to hold on as I was considering to move to another place. Thinking of it again, I think I should try to get an audition with the Voxativ distributor using the GEL3N.

Well I am still waiting for Glenn to get back to me on the costing, we have decided on most parts and I just need to know his idea of the time slot and cost to proceed. I am in no hurry when it comes to the new amp and I just want everything to be just right. In the meantime, I am in the midst of getting some EL34 adapters from Deyan (as recommended by Joe) so that I can hear the EL34 tone in the GEL3N.

Let me know when you come around to Singapore, I'll be sure to warm up the GEL3N for you.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> I was looking at them seriously as I wanted to drive them with my GEL3N and the HugoTT2 but decided to hold on as I was considering to move to another place. Thinking of it again, I think I should try to get an audition with the Voxativ distributor using the GEL3N.
> 
> Well I am still waiting for Glenn to get back to me on the costing, we have decided on most parts and I just need to know his idea of the time slot and cost to proceed. I am in no hurry when it comes to the new amp and I just want everything to be just right. In the meantime, I am in the midst of getting some EL34 adapters from Deyan (as recommended by Joe) so that I can hear the EL34 tone in the GEL3N.
> 
> Let me know when you come around to Singapore, I'll be sure to warm up the GEL3N for you.



By June 2020 or way before, I would have Berlin already. So listening to your GEL3N would be good to gauge the sonic difference between the 2 amps.

So is that a hint that your next amp is build around the EL34?  I think that's a fantastic choice.

I'm looking forward to meeting you no doubt. We'll have a Tiger beer together.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> We'll have a Tiger beer together.


 Just stay away from Singha. Budweiser of Asia! Bleh!
If you can find it,check out Beer Lao Dark. Fantastic beer from Laos.


----------



## UntilThen

In the past I used to take my head-fi gear (lap-top, Yggdrasil, GOTL and HD800) to the deck on weekends and just spend a few hours listening to music with the fresh air and watching all the native birds frolicking in the trees. Until my son decides to take up ice hockey and use the deck for practise shots. Btw I have incredible love for my son. The love far exceeds that of my love for head-fi or hifi. I think all dad feels the same way.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Just stay away from Singha. Budweiser of Asia! Bleh!
> If you can find it,check out Beer Lao Dark. Fantastic beer from Laos.



Don't get me started on talking about beer. This thread will definitely go off tangent.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey Matt, since you are looking at speakers, why not look at Voxativ as well? I think they are also really highly regarded for single driver designs.
> 
> https://voxativ.berlin/



I guess it's good to frame discussions like these around a budget.  Even their budget model is 5 times more expensive than the Omegas, but maybe they're both too expensive..... or both too cheap!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Zachik said:


> No idea how it sounds, but that is the most striking speaker I have seen!! Not kidding - I want THIS one...



Actually that's a SAM in the photo.  It would sound exactly like my speaker except with better bottom end extension due to the larger cabinet.  Same driver.


----------



## Xcalibur255

heliosphann said:


> Is this Head-fi or Speaker-fi???
> 
> Sorry, I had to bring it up...



Hey, at least we're not posting pictures of cats like the Schiit thread.

Don't tempt me to either because I like cats.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Hey, at least we're not posting pictures of cats like the Schiit thread.
> 
> Don't tempt me to either because I like cats.



Hahaha didn't you see my Tabby Road post?


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> names suggestion from me are:- Vienna, Mozart or Beethoven


None of these does it for me. Hopefully some or myself would come up with better name. 



UntilThen said:


> In the past I used to take my head-fi gear (lap-top, Yggdrasil, GOTL and HD800) to the deck on weekends and just spend a few hours listening to music with the fresh air and watching all the native birds frolicking in the trees. Until my son decides to take up ice hockey and use the deck for practise shots. Btw I have incredible love for my son. The love far exceeds that of my love for head-fi or hifi. I think all dad feels the same way.


My son is getting into hockey too. I'm a big fan myself, and in fact - I'm posting this message from the ice rink, waiting for the preseason game to start


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 17, 2019)

Zachik said:


> My son is getting into hockey too. I'm a big fan myself, and in fact - I'm posting this message from the ice rink, waiting for the preseason game to start



What a small world. I don't even know how to skate, let alone hitting the puck with the hockey stick. I think the puck might come in handy as isolation footers for tube amps.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> I don't get it. Why didn't you share this with us earlier. Wait let me rephrase it. Why didn't you share this with me earlier?
> 
> I haven't seen your 45 amp before so thanks for the picture. I think it looks awesome and can imagine it will sound awesome as with all of Glenn build. Then there's my beloved Yggdrasil. I know you've upgraded to version 2. I haven't because I love it exactly as it is. If it ain't broken, don't fix it, is my philosophy.  The other amp I'm not familiar with. Looks interesting though.
> 
> ...



I appreciate the kind words.  I am fairly happy with how the setup turned out.  I'll try to answer some questions here.

I'll try to find you an older picture of the 45.  It looks better with all the tubes in it, rather than the two short black stubs from the HEXFRED adapters.  Oh, and with the KenRad UX245 globes in instead of those little ST 45s.

The amp on the left is pretty new.  It's a Luxman SQ-N150 and was bought to pair with these Omegas.  I was originally going to just wait until Glenn could build for me, but my old little class D had tonal issues that the Omegas made painfully apparent and I got to thinking it might not be bad to try out some different things.  I have only heard single ended triode amps so far, so I wanted to dip my toe into something else for the experience.  The Luxman is a push-pull EL84 design and is ultralinear connected.  I was curious how different the presentation would be vs. SET.  Honestly it was too expensive for a "hold over" amp until I have a Glenn built speaker amp, but I'll find uses for it down the line.  It's honestly pretty nice sounding now that's broken in.  Definitely not perfect, but what is?

The glass shelf that holds the monitor over the Yggdrasil has a bit of a story to it.  You can buy them on Amazon, but you won't get one like this.  The top part of it is original and good quality, but the legs from the original purchase were junk and had a cheap finish that was flaking off.  We have a full metal machining shop at work so I asked our machinist one day just to make small talk how hard it would be to make new solid aluminum legs to mate to the top part.  Turns out we had the exact diameter bar stock on hand so an hour later he had turned four of them out on the lathe for me and tapped them for an all-thread to connect to the inserts on the glass.  Even looking very close you absolutely cannot tell, the inserts in the glass match the parts we made perfectly.  The little rings he cut in just on a whim to make it look more stylish.  It turned a $20 cheapo product off Amazon into something that looks like it could easily be $100.  Machinists are amazing people.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Here's a picture of the Glenn 45 from back in 2015 dressed in full glass including naked C3gs.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Okay, I found this and decided I had to post one more.  This is also from 2015.  My Glenn OTL was made in 2011.  For the newer members here I thought it might be interesting for them to see the original design before all these new options came to be.

Note the original volume knob is silver and matched the chassis.  I like big knobs so I swapped that one onto the shaft at some point to replace the small one that was there.


----------



## UntilThen

So it's the new Luxman SQ-N150. Luxman went back to recreate a very desirable amp from the past. A classic. Uses 2 x ECC83 and 4 x EL84 in push pull for 10w output. It's a beauty.
https://www.stereo.net.au/news/luxman-unveils-revamped-neoclassico-amp-and-cd-player

Mate you've a lot of nice gear to play with and the machinist did an amazing job.


----------



## heliosphann

Xcalibur255 said:


> Hey, at least we're not posting pictures of cats like the Schiit thread.
> 
> Don't tempt me to either because I like cats.



Sup?


----------



## UntilThen

Dragon Inspire HA1, Glenn OTL and Glenn 45 amp. Anyone could have been happy with that and that would have been the end. 

I can see you're very selective with your gear. Excellent choice.


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> None of these does it for me. Hopefully some or myself would come up with better name.



SexEl3n


----------



## Xcalibur255

The Inspire is in the closet right now.  It lost it's home when I did this new setup.    It bothers me too because that's way too nice of an amp to be in a closet.  I figured I would rotate between it and the 45 every few months or something like that, but then I caught the speaker bug and haven't been using either one.

The OTL ironically gets far more use because I took it to work.  Sometimes it gets listened to all day there and I still love listening to it.

The Luxman created a weird problem for me too, that's what I was alluding to in an earlier post.  Turns out it's one of those rare amps that shorts the input terminals when it is powered off.  Apparently this raises all hell with Yggdrasil.  It actually produces a crackling distortion in the 45 amp that only goes away if I unplug the RCA cables connecting the Luxman to the Yggy.  An unfortunate land mine to have stepped on, and apparently there is no way to resolve it so when I want to listen to the 45 I have to crawl under the desk and unplug stuff.  I did just that last weekend too.  It was a nice listening session, the best I have had with that setup in a long time.


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Sup?



Who let the dogs out?


----------



## mordy (Sep 17, 2019)

I know this is about tubes, and I have a long write up coming about the TFK EL11T, but I finally found out how they produce speaker cones:




I think the caption means "Driver flower garden in full bloom, Charlottenburg Palace Park, Berlin


----------



## UntilThen

I see it as a good thing that everyone has an interest in pursuing a Glenn transformer coupled SET amp that drives both headphones and high efficiency speakers. It's a step in the right direction in trying to achieve something better.

Your 45 amp is a precursor to all this and must rank with the Glenn 300b as an amp of desire. It's a great hobby and in the words of Leftside, you can spend on worst things in life.

I think Glenn will have enough orders to keep him very busy with some advance configurations.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 17, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Here's a picture of the Glenn 45 from back in 2015 dressed in full glass including naked C3gs.



Wait what are the back 4 tubes? I gather the 2 outer most tubes are 45 but what are the other 2 inner ones? Rectifiers?


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I see it as a good thing that everyone has an interest in pursuing a Glenn transformer coupled SET amp that drives both headphones and high efficiency speakers.


 If I do get another amp it will be a 300b,or whatever Glenn cooks up that he feels is better.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I see it as a good thing that *everyone* has an interest in pursuing a Glenn transformer coupled SET amp that drives both headphones and high efficiency speakers. It's a step in the right direction in trying to achieve something better.
> 
> Your 45 amp is a precursor to all this and must rank with the Glenn 300b as an amp of desire. It's a great hobby and in the words of Leftside, you can spend on worst things in life.
> 
> I think Glenn will have enough orders to keep him very busy with some advance configurations.



Well not everyone! lol.  But I don't disagree with your sentiment that it is a logical step forward in this hobby of ours. 

But I am more than content to sit on the sidelines and watch.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> If I do get another amp it will be a 300b,or whatever Glenn cooks up that he feels is better.



I don't think you've been listening to what Glenn has consistently been saying all along. That his best amp is the EL3N amp. Says it's as good as the 300b amp.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Well not everyone! lol.  But I don't disagree with your sentiment that it is a logical step forward in this hobby of ours.
> 
> But I am more than content to sit on the sidelines and watch.



Very true. My mistake. Wrong choice of word. 'Everyone' is incorrect.  As a matter of fact after Berlin, I'll be watching from the sidelines too because there will be no room for the amps on the rack !!!


----------



## Monsterzero

Monsterzero said:


> or whatever Glenn cooks up that he feels is better.





UntilThen said:


> I don't think you've been listening to what Glenn has consistently been saying all along. That his best amp is the EL3N amp. Says it's as good as the 300b amp.



Oh,Ive been listening...and waiting for all these new amps you guys are dreaming up to become realized. As I said above,I will see where all this stands when the dust settles.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> By June 2020 or way before, I would have Berlin already. So listening to your GEL3N would be good to gauge the sonic difference between the 2 amps.
> 
> So is that a hint that your next amp is build around the EL34?  I think that's a fantastic choice.
> 
> I'm looking forward to meeting you no doubt. We'll have a Tiger beer together.



Sure, let me know when you have your schedules fixed.

Not exactly, i'm thinking of using the KT88/KT150 tubes, separated chassis for power, mundorf caps and wires..


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Sure, let me know when you have your schedules fixed.
> 
> Not exactly, i'm thinking of using the KT88/KT150 tubes, separated chassis for power, mundorf caps and wires..



Wow. Separate chassis for power so a 2 box unit and with KT88/KT120/KT150. Even in strapped triode mode, that's formidable. I have to see the outcome of this.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey guys just popping in here it in here to say I've enjoyed the occasional change of topic lately with speaker discussions. I think I will go with Mordy's suggestion of that $200-ish efficient speaker he mentioned earlier (the name fleets me and I'm at work), which I'm excited to pair with my upcoming custom Glen ELx amp. Maybe I'll call it Super GELx. Also moreover I really enjoyed the insightful posts every day on this thread, though it becomes a bit challenging to keep up with the speed of posts sometimes, LOL. I don't post much recently because of computer policies at work and limited time at home. And I think Glenn Stuidios sounds like a good name for Glenn's company. Sounds a lot better than Glen Audio; every other hi-fi company these days is using the word audio somewhere in the mix.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Wow. Separate chassis for power so a 2 box unit and with KT88/KT120/KT150. Even in strapped triode mode, that's formidable. I have to see the outcome of this.



This is still my tentative design.  I had chosen KT150 x2 and 6SN7 (or 6J5) x2 way back in the spring until all this EL12 intrigue came along.  I have a secondary goal of having it be the same chassis size as the 45 as well, now  that you've seen my photo you can understand why.  So there are constraints in play I have to contend with that aren't necessarily limitations for somebody else.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 18, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Wait what are the back 4 tubes? I gather the 2 outer most tubes are 45 but what are the other 2 inner ones? Rectifiers?



That's correct.  Dual 6BY5 rectifiers.  They are tv damper diodes, and these are unique in that this is a dual diode tube that doesn't share a common cathode (I think I'm remembering this right?).  So you can create a full wave bridge rectification supply with two tubes when normally you would need 4 of these tv damper tubes  such as the 6AX4.  They were quite problematic and I was happy to switch to HEXFRED.  Remember the high pitch whining noise old CRT tvs used to make?  These tubes are the source of that noise, and I couldn't find ones that didn't fill the room with that racket.  Ironically it's basically the exact same noise that's always in my head now anyway thanks to my tinnitus.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 18, 2019)

Oh, and let's not forget the most fun part of the story..... one of these 6BY5 blew up, and it fried parts of the amp inside along with it.  I remember seeing an actual shower of sparks flying out of the base of the tube inside the glass.  This happened only a few months after I got the amp.  I cannot even tell you in words how heartbroken I was when that happened.  It took me two years to save enough money to do the 45 build.  I never looked forward to anything the way I looked forward to this amp, and to see it get nuked right away like that........  Wow, it still upsets me even now.  She never quite sounded the same again after that, even after Glenn fixed it for me.  

If I put my nose to the transformer cover I can still smell a bit of that awful burned electronics smell......


----------



## Phantaminum

Xcalibur255 said:


> Oh, and let's not forget the most fun part of the story..... one of these 6BY5 blew up, and it fried parts of the amp inside along with it.  I remember seeing an actual shower of sparks flying out of the base of the tube inside the glass.  This happened only a few months after I got the amp.  I cannot even tell you in words how heartbroken I was when that happened.  It took me two years to save enough money to do the 45 build.  I never looked forward to anything the way I looked forward to this amp, and to see it get nuked right away like that........  Wow, it still upsets me even now.  She never quite sounded the same again after that, even after Glenn fixed it for me.
> 
> If I put my nose to the transformer cover I can still smell a bit of that awful burned electronics smell......



Wow, that would break my heart as well if that happened to me. I can’t imagine a small tube taking out the whole amp. Sorry to hear about your troubles Xcalibur. Glad that’s if fixed though and that you’re still able to enjoy it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

DecentLevi said:


> And I think Glenn Stuidios sounds like a good name for Glenn's company. Sounds a lot better than Glen Audio; every other hi-fi company these days is using the word audio somewhere in the mix.



The person who created this thread, Silent One, had a Glenn Studios graphic mocked up for this and everything quite a while back.  For some reason we just never got around to actually doing it.  I wonder if Louis would tell me who makes his stamped medallion logos.  They look like pressed commemorative coins up close and are really nice.  I suspect a company that stamps stuff like that would be able to stamp a design based on a graphic you provide them.


----------



## UntilThen

If that happens to my amp, I'll be looking to skin a cat. Without @heliosphann looking of course.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> The person who created this thread, Silent One, had a Glenn Studios graphic mocked up for this and everything quite a while back.  For some reason we just never got around to actually doing it.  I wonder if Louis would tell me who makes his stamped medallion logos.  They look like pressed commemorative coins up close and are really nice.  I suspect a company that stamps stuff like that would be able to stamp a design based on a graphic you provide them.



You see my avatar? I'll have 'UntiThen Productions' on it.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> Wow. Separate chassis for power so a 2 box unit and with KT88/KT120/KT150. Even in strapped triode mode, that's formidable. I have to see the outcome of this.



Yup.. I think it should be quite nice. I'm also asking to see if I can get the chassis powder coated to a glossy colour.

Anyway I am still waiting for @2359glenn  to get back to me so that I can have a further idea on the build.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 18, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> This is still my tentative design.  I had chosen KT150 x2 and 6SN7 (or 6J5) x2 way back in the spring until all this EL12 intrigue came along.  I have a secondary goal of having it be the same chassis size as the 45 as well, now  that you've seen my photo you can understand why.  So there are constraints in play I have to contend with that aren't necessarily limitations for somebody else.



You can also use KT88 or KT120 in addition to KT150 without changing bias. At least that's how it works in the Primaluna. Didn't know selling that is coming back to haunt me now. Up until recently I almost bought a Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP that comes with 8 x EL34 and 8 x KT150. It's such a good price for a mint 2nd hand unit.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Yup.. I think it should be quite nice. I'm also asking to see if I can get the chassis powder coated to a glossy colour.
> 
> Anyway I am still waiting for @2359glenn  to get back to me so that I can have a further idea on the build.



More wow !!! You'll make me broke. Now I'm thinking powder coating the chassis to Dirty Weekends blue colour haha. Nah not blue that would be copying DNA Stratus. Maybe yellow !!! I have always wanted to win the Tour De France and get the yellow jersey. It's a bucket list.


----------



## Deyan (Sep 18, 2019)

Hi guys.....um I made a pair of EL34 to C3g adapters by mistake ( didn't read the message or I was sleeping while reading ). So I just waisted the materials. Anyone interested??
Here they are.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> More wow !!! You'll make me broke. Now I'm thinking powder coating the chassis to Dirty Weekends blue colour haha. Nah not blue that would be copying DNA Stratus. Maybe yellow !!! I have always wanted to win the Tour De France and get the yellow jersey. It's a bucket list.



Well.... if its really gonna be your last amp.. then why not go for broke?? I mean as long as Glenn can find somewhere to do it.


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> None of these does it for me. Hopefully some or myself would come up with better name.





Monsterzero said:


> SexEl3n


Will run that name by Ellen, my GF  
(not a joke!)


----------



## Zachik

Deyan said:


> Hi guys.....um I made a pair of EL34 to C3g adapters by mistake ( didn't read the message or I was sleeping while reading ). So I just waisted the materials. Anyone interested??


If @2359glenn confirms that should work - I will take them!


----------



## Zachik

Sound Trooper said:


> Yup.. I think it should be quite nice. I'm also asking to see if I can get the chassis powder coated to a glossy colour.





UntilThen said:


> More wow !!! You'll make me broke. Now I'm thinking powder coating the chassis to Dirty Weekends blue colour haha. Nah not blue that would be copying DNA Stratus. Maybe yellow !!! I have always wanted to win the Tour De France and get the yellow jersey. It's a bucket list.



I am also looking into a special color for my special amp 
I am more into red, though...


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Well.... if its really gonna be your last amp.. then why not go for broke?? I mean as long as Glenn can find somewhere to do it.



Form over function. Although that applies to architecture, it does apply here. The exterior design should reflect the amp's intended usage. Quoting Louis H. Sullivan. 

So I won't spend unnecessarily. Beside I think this is like Monet's Water Lilies. A work of art that will appreciates in value over time. It's good enough. 

I can't stop looking at this. Thanks to K.


----------



## Monsterzero

OH MY! Its meant to be! Six tubes,6 in German is sechs(sounds like sex). You have a name!


----------



## Deyan

Zachik said:


> If @2359glenn confirms that should work - I will take them!



They also work with 6V6


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> More wow !!! You'll make me broke. Now I'm thinking powder coating the chassis to Dirty Weekends blue colour haha. Nah not blue that would be copying DNA Stratus. Maybe yellow !!! I have always wanted to win the Tour De France and get the yellow jersey. It's a bucket list.



Here you can look up some colors the chassis maker I use has.
Also they have a picture of Tyrell's 45 amp posted.

https://www.landfallsystems.com/


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 18, 2019)

OK after some thinking, here are some names I've come up with for my upcoming Glenn amp.

*ResELnance*
I like the word resonance and wanted to use "EL" since it can do many EL tubes, so morphed the two words together.

*EL Darwin* (pronounced El Darwin)
I like the name Darwin, AKA the 90's electronic musician Darwin Chamber. Add the "EL" prefix and you have a name that can mean "The Darwin" in Spanish, or in English can either be interpreted as EL3N / EL34 etc. Darwin Amp or even Darwin as in the 'evolution' of EL amps inferring Charles Darwin.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 18, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Here you can look up some colors the chassis maker I use has.
> Also they have a picture of Tyrell's 45 amp posted.
> 
> https://www.landfallsystems.com/



Very impressive. Now colour is on the cards literally. How about a blood red chassis with grey Telefunken EL tubes. That's exotic. 

Or Navy Blue / grey

Or Black / grey

Or Grey / grey

I think I'm going bananas.


----------



## UntilThen

Tyrell's 45 amp looks grand. Befitting a high end build. I'd have been proud to own that.


----------



## UntilThen

Put aside EL11 now and swap in Tung Sol 12sl7gt bgrp because the EL11 adapter is coming off loose. Will save the EL11s for Berlin.

12sl7gt and 6 x 6bx7gt is very good. This is what makes Glenn Super 9 special.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 18, 2019)

Damn...a couple of days of football and I have a lot of catching up to do!

Still rockin the EL34 tubes in the GEL3N...these tubes deserve all of the recognition that they get.

I wonder how good the reissue tubes sound....not as good as the older tubes I have been told, but even if they get 80% of the sound
it would be a good bang for the buck!

Also wonder how a nice set of GEC KT77 would sound...pretty darn good I would imagine.
Wondering weather to have another amp made with different transformers using a 3.5 Ohm load, that would double the power. The GEL3N has a 7 Ohm load.

Thing is my amp provides plenty of power and Glenn says the tubes could actually sound better being run at 250 volts, less power...but the good thing is also less distortion.
I will talk to Glenn more about this.

I am going to think about this for a bit.  Want to try some more tubes first also.

Good news for Glenn to be able to do builds that are different than OTL builds.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 18, 2019)

Joe it's a city that never sleeps. This thread that is.

That is the whole purpose of getting a custom amp from Glenn. It's custom for you and you alone. So there will be a variety of builds going forward. There has never been a better time. Everyone here is very positive about getting their own version. From an audio enthusiast perspective, I sure find it fascinating to watch.


----------



## whirlwind

Yes, that is the whole reason for buying a custom amp.

New amps builds get Glenn's creative mind working and he get excited to make new amps.

You have to admit, building the same amp over and over would get pretty boring and especially for someone like Glenn who loves building them.

Great times indeed


----------



## UntilThen

GEC KT77 is more expensive than the price of petrol now. Better be quick only 5 left lol.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KT77-GE...m3d8b11a7e4:g:gKgAAOSwee5delwf&frcectupt=true


----------



## whirlwind

I know...they are not cheap....that is the downside.

Upside is I never met a GEC or Mullard that I didn't like


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Yes, that is the whole reason for buying a custom amp.
> 
> New amps builds get Glenn's creative mind working and he get excited to make new amps.
> 
> ...



Sometimes I wonder why all the fuss to 'upgrade' to another SET amp because I've been listening to Verite with Glenn Super 9 now and I've never been more pleased with my music. Tubes are Tung Sol 12sl7gt and 6 x 6bx7gt. Berlin has a lot to accomplished to beat this GOTL. Even with the Studio Six, my listening time is split 50 / 50 between GOTL and Studio Six. That's how much I love the Super 9.


----------



## Zachik

Deyan said:


> Hi guys.....um I made a pair of EL34 to C3g adapters by mistake ( didn't read the message or I was sleeping while reading ). So I just waisted the materials. Anyone interested??





Deyan said:


> They also work with 6V6


Question to the GOTL experts:
I know that 6V6 and EL34 will NOT work in GOTL as *output* tubes.
Would they work, with the EL34 to C3g adapters that Deyan built, as *drivers*?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Here you can look up some colors the chassis maker I use has.
> Also they have a picture of Tyrell's 45 amp posted.
> 
> https://www.landfallsystems.com/



I think the gold finish would look great on a Glenn amp, gold-plated sockets and a silver Goldpoint knob  Glenn can make a blue amp to match his Zu Omen Dirty Weekend too.  Maybe a new coat of blue paint on the walls, blue carpet and furniture to match, I'm sure that would go over well!

You know, I almost bought those speakers at one point.  Right now I have a 2.1 setup instead with NHT C3 and SVS SB-1000.  The NHT's are a great budget buy, IMO.

Do the Zu Omens have enough low end to satisfy without a subwoofer?  Looks like they are rated down to 35Hz. 

I think I may have locked down my post-graduate school job yesterday, so a celebratory two-channel overhaul may be in the works, and perhaps some new tubes


----------



## L0rdGwyn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I think the gold finish would look great on a Glenn amp, gold-plated sockets and a silver Goldpoint knob



Oh, and to finish off my gold build, perhaps some of those Korean B5 sockets and a pair of Opta REN904 drivers.  I'm drooling again.


----------



## Phantaminum

I have a pair of Hitachi black plates 6SN7GTBs and Raytheon 6SN7GTBs but both have O-getters. Have you guys seen a pair with D-Getters before? I’m thinking of buying them. @gibosi Any thoughts?


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> GEC KT77 is more expensive than the price of petrol now. Better be quick only 5 left lol.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KT77-GE...m3d8b11a7e4:g:gKgAAOSwee5delwf&frcectupt=true


 Word has gotten out that GEC KT77s are the preferred tubes for the Lampi TRP. Ive been keeping an eye on them since getting my DAC,but thus far theyve all been pretty pricey.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 18, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> I have a pair of Hitachi black plates 6SN7GTBs and Raytheon 6SN7GTBs but both have O-getters. Have you guys seen a pair with D-Getters before? I’m thinking of buying them. @gibosi Any thoughts?



Hey Phantaminum - those are not Hitachis, they are rebranded Nippon Electric 6SN7GTB.  They are very similar to my pair, same top mica, identical plates and interior cut outs on both micas.  However, mine has a different bottom mica shape and O-getters.

Here are some photos of pairs with identical construction.

 

Here is mine, similar but slight differences:


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey Phantaminum - those are not Hitachis, they are rebranded Nippon Electric 6SN7GTB.  They are very similar to my pair, same top mica, identical plates and interior cut outs on both micas.  However, mine has a different bottom mica shape and O-getters.
> 
> Here are some photos of pairs with identical construction.



Interesting. How do you say they sound? I find that most tubes with d-getters sound better than o-getters. Thanks for the information LG.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> Interesting. How do you say they sound? I find that most tubes with d-getters sound better than o-getters. Thanks for the information LG.



I'll do a quick A/B to get the gist of how they sound compared to the Hitachis and get back to you!  Haven't listened to them in a while.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> You can also use KT88 or KT120 in addition to KT150 without changing bias. At least that's how it works in the Primaluna. Didn't know selling that is coming back to haunt me now. Up until recently I almost bought a Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP that comes with 8 x EL34 and 8 x KT150. It's such a good price for a mint 2nd hand unit.


I looked hard at the PrimaLuna actually, but it's a little too big to sit where the Luxman does.  That N150 has the footprint of an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper and that's what ultimately goaded me into trying it out.  It will fit in places where most big hulking tube amps won't.

I don't think the KT150 is being explored well by most amp makers.  These circuits are all designed for a KT88 and don't take advantage of the higher ratings the KT150 has.  I want my amp to be made *specifically* for the KT150 with bias points optimized for it.  A few people who have done custom builds with this tube say it sounds quite good when the amp is designed around the tube.  A de-biasing switch can allow compatibility for the EL34 so that a second option/flavor is available.  If nothing else than to "hedge the bet" so to speak.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Here you can look up some colors the chassis maker I use has.
> Also they have a picture of Tyrell's 45 amp posted.
> 
> https://www.landfallsystems.com/



Man I wish I had sent them a better picture than that.  You can't even see the meters because the exposure is so bad.


----------



## UntilThen

I can't believe it. I made the top poster today. What's the world happening to? I must say the enthusiasm here is infectious and the synergy amongst all here has been rock solid. Thanks everyone.


----------



## rnros

Zachik said:


> Question to the GOTL experts:
> I know that 6V6 and EL34 will NOT work in GOTL as *output* tubes.
> Would they work, with the EL34 to C3g adapters that Deyan built, as *drivers*?



Hi Zachik,
Have used the 6V6 with Deyan's C3g adapter, and it's very good.
Many options available with the 6V6 family. Good adapter to have.
But 6V6 is only 450mA for the heater, EL34 draws 1A, so that might be a question for Glenn.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I looked hard at the PrimaLuna actually, but it's a little too big to sit where the Luxman does.  That N150 has the footprint of an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper and that's what ultimately goaded me into trying it out.  It will fit in places where most big hulking tube amps won't.
> 
> I don't think the KT150 is being explored well by most amp makers.  These circuits are all designed for a KT88 and don't take advantage of the higher ratings the KT150 has.  I want my amp to be made *specifically* for the KT150 with bias points optimized for it.  A few people who have done custom builds with this tube say it sounds quite good when the amp is designed around the tube.  A de-biasing switch can allow compatibility for the EL34 so that a second option/flavor is available.  If nothing else than to "hedge the bet" so to speak.



PL is too big and heavy for desktop unless you've a big desk. Also I like some bite with the tone generated from my tube amps. I don't think the PL did that for me. There's a 'lift' in the midrange and mid-bass, a slight forwardness in that department in the GOTL and that really appeal to my aural sensors. Studio Six mids is a bit recessed compared to GOTL but not by much. However Studio Six is very precise, the details are what I seek and it's there. Plus a nice wide sondstage. Mid bass can rock with GOTL and subbass it does excel over GOTL. So it's 2 slightly different flavour tube amps and it's easy to love both. I chose Berlin with EL tubes because I know it will sound distinctly different from the other 2 amps. I can see that eventually I'll just settle on these 3 tube amps. The dilemma is what to do with the Sansui(s) and the Sansui(s) are very good. Too many amps, not enough time and rack space.


----------



## Deyan

Oh I forgot here is the first of the A2293 to 6AS7 adapter. Only for a single socket but was the order.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Hi Zachik,
> Have used the 6V6 with Deyan's C3g adapter, and it's very good.
> Many options available with the 6V6 family. Good adapter to have.
> But 6V6 is only 450mA for the heater, EL34 draws 1A, so that might be a question for Glenn.



I prefer 6v6gt in the Studio Six for it's Doberman tone - snap snap. Whereas the fat 6v6g is more like woolly German Shepherd. It really depends on what you want to achieve. Both bred makes excellent watch dogs.  and yeah they are beautiful sounding tubes.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I prefer 6v6gt in the Studio Six for it's Doberman tone - snap snap. Whereas the fat 6v6g is more like woolly German Shepherd. It really depends on what you want to achieve. Both bred makes excellent watch dogs.  and yeah they are beautiful sounding tubes.



Woolly or not, I prefer not to loose the bite.


----------



## Zachik

rnros said:


> Hi Zachik,
> Have used the 6V6 with Deyan's C3g adapter, and it's very good.
> Many options available with the 6V6 family. Good adapter to have.
> But 6V6 is only 450mA for the heater, EL34 draws 1A, so that might be a question for Glenn.


@2359glenn - what do you think?  Safe to use EL34 tubes with Deyan's adapter in the C3g sockets?


----------



## Xcalibur255

rnros said:


> Hi Zachik,
> Have used the 6V6 with Deyan's C3g adapter, and it's very good.
> Many options available with the 6V6 family. Good adapter to have.
> But 6V6 is only 450mA for the heater, EL34 draws 1A, so that might be a question for Glenn.



Less current draw on just the heater should never be an issue, it's using tubes that draw more than the tube designed for the amp that gets people into trouble by over-taxing the power supply.


----------



## gibosi

According to this data sheet, the EL34 pulls about 1.5 amps, or 3 amps for a pair.

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/129/e/EL34.pdf

And if your OTL has a Lundahl transformer, I believe you are limited to a bit more than 13 amps in total, to include a pair of EL34, a rectifier and output tubes. Calculate accordingly... and carefully.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> According to this data sheet, the EL34 pulls about 1.5 amps, or 3 amps for a pair.
> 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/129/e/EL34.pdf
> 
> And if your OTL has a Lundahl transformer, I believe you are limited to a bit more than 13 amps in total, to include a pair of EL34, a rectifier and output tubes. Calculate accordingly... and carefully.


Personally, I have the Heybore transformer, not Lundahl, so I think I have a little more headroom...
@gibosi - how much do the C3g tubes draw, in comparison?  How about EL11 (with Deyan's adapters, of course)?


----------



## DecentLevi

DecentLevi said:


> OK after some thinking, here are some names I've come up with for my upcoming Glenn amp.
> 
> *ResELnance*
> I like the word resonance and wanted to use "EL" since it can do many EL tubes, so morphed the two words together.
> ...


Hey any opinions on the names I came up with for my upcoming amp?

*ResELnance* or *EL Darwin* (see above)
It will be for my 4x EL3N / EL34 / KT66 etc. with 1x 6SN7 and 1x rectifier with a few custom knobs and internal upgrades.


----------



## gibosi (Sep 18, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Personally, I have the Heybore transformer, not Lundahl, so I think I have a little more headroom...
> @gibosi - how much do the C3g tubes draw, in comparison?  How about EL11 (with Deyan's adapters, of course)?



The C3g draws 0.37 amps, or 0.74 amps for a pair. The EL11 draws 0.9 amps, or 1.8 amps for a pair.

With the Heybore transformer, you have one winding for the rectifier, 5 amps, and another winding for the drivers and output tubes, about 13 amps. Personally, I don't think it is a good idea to use these very high power pentodes as drivers. And I would never encourage you to get anywhere near the maximum of 13 amps. But if you really want to do this, a pair of 6AS7 and a pair of EL34 would probably be OK. However, it might be best to let Glenn weigh in on this....


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> I think the gold finish would look great on a Glenn amp, gold-plated sockets and a silver Goldpoint knob  Glenn can make a blue amp to match his Zu Omen Dirty Weekend too.  Maybe a new coat of blue paint on the walls, blue carpet and furniture to match, I'm sure that would go over well!
> 
> You know, I almost bought those speakers at one point.  Right now I have a 2.1 setup instead with NHT C3 and SVS SB-1000.  The NHT's are a great budget buy, IMO.
> 
> ...




Congrats on securing that job, very nice.
I will be up in Cleveland Friday night at the Grog Shop.  The wife and I are going to see "Kingfish" Ingram   
We are going to enjoy a few cocktails after the show and spend the night....then maybe hit the west side market Saturday.





Zachik said:


> Personally, I have the Heybore transformer, not Lundahl, so I think I have a little more headroom...
> @gibosi - how much do the C3g tubes draw, in comparison?  How about EL11 (with Deyan's adapters, of course)?



Check with Glenn first, depends on what Heybore transformer he used...I think some may be 11 amps


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> I think the gold finish would look great on a Glenn amp, gold-plated sockets and a silver Goldpoint knob  Glenn can make a blue amp to match his Zu Omen Dirty Weekend too.  Maybe a new coat of blue paint on the walls, blue carpet and furniture to match, I'm sure that would go over well!
> 
> You know, I almost bought those speakers at one point.  Right now I have a 2.1 setup instead with NHT C3 and SVS SB-1000.  The NHT's are a great budget buy, IMO.
> 
> I think I may have locked down my post-graduate school job yesterday, so a celebratory two-channel overhaul may be in the works, and perhaps some new tubes



Congrats on the job, LG!!

And the NHT's...I have a pair of these too, I do not use them as I like my DIY's better.  But...the NHT's do sound good.  I found that they wanted a LOT of power...very inefficient speakers.  Good, when fed lots of juice...


----------



## rnros

gibosi said:


> According to this data sheet, the EL34 pulls about 1.5 amps, or 3 amps for a pair.
> 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/129/e/EL34.pdf
> 
> And if your OTL has a Lundahl transformer, I believe you are limited to a bit more than 13 amps in total, to include a pair of EL34, a rectifier and output tubes. Calculate accordingly... and carefully.



Thanks, Gibosi. I should have checked.  
I knew it was more than I would want to draw through a driver socket designed for 375mA. 
At first, I was cautious about the 900mA for the EL3N.



Zachik said:


> Personally, I have the Heybore transformer, not Lundahl, so I think I have a little more headroom...
> @gibosi - how much do the C3g tubes draw, in comparison?  How about EL11 (with Deyan's adapters, of course)?



Yes, EL11 and EL3N have the same electrical properties, so same 900mA heaters. Just different factories and tube bases.
Also 6L6s have 900 mA heaters like the EL3N/EL11, and the same pinout as the 6V6.


----------



## UntilThen

I know I have been heaping praise on Telefunken EL11 with 6 x 6bx6gt just a few days ago. Since yesterday, I've replaced EL11 with Tung Sol 12SL7gt bgrp. The power tubes have remain 6 x 6bx7gt. Crikey it's moving me just as much with Verite. Coming from EL11, the TS 12SL7gt brgp sounds less intense but with just as much force. It's more woolly than EL11 but I can assure you, if you've been constantly beaten by the Doberman, it's a soothing change being beaten by the German Shepherd. 

Don't believe me? Try it. Bare your bottom for the Shepherd. It's a welcome change.


----------



## UntilThen

I wouldn't use the EL34 as drivers in the GOTL. Simply 2 reasons:-

1. You've so many drivers you can use with GOTL, too many choices already.

2. EL34 is a very powerful output tube. Can't see me dropping that into c3g sockets, even if it's in the name of science and experiment.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> The C3g draws 0.37 amps, or 0.74 amps for a pair. The EL11 draws 0.9 amps, or 1.8 amps for a pair.
> 
> With the Heybore transformer, you have one winding for the rectifier, 5 amps, and another winding for the drivers and output tubes, about 13 amps. Personally, I don't think it is a good idea to use these very high power pentodes as drivers. And I would never encourage you to get anywhere near the maximum of 13 amps. But if you really want to do this, a pair of 6AS7 and a pair of EL34 would probably be OK. However, it might be best to let Glenn weigh in on this....





whirlwind said:


> Check with Glenn first, depends on what Heybore transformer he used...I think some may be 11 amps





rnros said:


> Yes, EL11 and EL3N have the same electrical properties, so same 900mA heaters. Just different factories and tube bases.
> Also 6L6s have 900 mA heaters like the EL3N/EL11, and the same pinout as the 6V6.



OK - I got an idea:
Later, I will add for each tube in my compatibility table - the power draw. I will also add a "Total power draw" formula, so we can clearly see if we're getting into the "red zone"...


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> I wouldn't use the EL34 as drivers in the GOTL. Simply 2 reasons:-
> 
> 1. You've so many drivers you can use with GOTL, too many choices already.
> 
> 2. EL34 is a very powerful output tube. Can't see me dropping that into c3g sockets, even if it's in the name of science and experiment.


But same adapter is for 6V6 according to @Deyan - would you add 6V6 capability to your GOTL?


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> But same adapter is for 6V6 according to @Deyan - would you add 6V6 capability to your GOTL?



As per rnros post, it's same heater as EL11 so probably ok. Besides rnros have tried the 6v6 in his GOTL and came out unscarred and reported that it sounded good. 

I'm listening to some electronic music now 'Fear in a handful of dust' by Amon Tobin, introduced by someone on the Verite thread. On Studio Six with GE ECG 6v6gt blue letterings. These tubes are amazing. Wait I don't think tubes alone does that. It's the package but the 6v6 in a properly implemented tube amp will send goose bumps all over you.


----------



## Monsterzero

@UntilThen of the EL11s you have which do you prefer and why? I might grab some,but at the price theyre going for I cant afford to buy more than a single pair. Telefunken? Phiipps?


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I think I may have locked down my post-graduate school job yesterday, so a celebratory two-channel overhaul may be in the works, and perhaps some new tubes


 Congrats dude.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I think I may have locked down my post-graduate school job yesterday, so a celebratory two-channel overhaul may be in the works, and perhaps some new tubes



I have to congratulate you on this. Graduating is more important than any tubes, tube amps. In fact it's more important than all of Head-Fi. So congrats, I'm very happy for you.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 18, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> @UntilThen of the EL11s you have which do you prefer and why? I might grab some,but at the price theyre going for I cant afford to buy more than a single pair. Telefunken? Phiipps?



EL11 are very rare now and of the few old ones on ebay, the sellers are charging a bomb. So the question is not which one but what's available.

On which brand EL11s sound better to my ears, I'm afraid given the condition of the adapters, it's hard for me to continue comparing them. The adapters are almost coming apart when I pull the tubes out. I did not want to disturb Deyan on this because it's a non issue for me. It won't cause me grief if I can't use EL11 in GOTL. My primary reason for buying these EL tubes is straightly for Berlin. Glenn will customised Berlin to use EL11 / EL12 spez.

Until then I can't give you a summary of differences between brands of EL11. When I get Berlin, I'll be able to tell you.


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> @2359glenn - what do you think?  Safe to use EL34 tubes with Deyan's adapter in the C3g sockets?



Yes you will only need one on each side


----------



## Xcalibur255

@L0rdGwyn 

Hope all goes well with the new job.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> @UntilThen of the EL11s you have which do you prefer and why? I might grab some,but at the price theyre going for I cant afford to buy more than a single pair. Telefunken? Phiipps?



On the quick comparison with brands of EL11 tubes (remember I didn't have many brands), my preference would beTelefunken EL11. Siemens EL11 is the same so put that in the same basket. I like these for the details and clarity. It's also more airy. This pairs very well with the slightly warm Verite Open. Aother reason for liking the Telefunken is it's very quiet. The quietest of all my EL11s. I have an OCD for quietness. If a tube sounds good but is noisy, then I'll put it aside. That's the reason I bought so many EL11s. I have to find the quiet ones.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> That's the reason I bought so many EL11s. I have to find the quiet ones.


 Are EL11s prone to noise?


----------



## UntilThen

So am I mad in the relentless pursuit of tubes? No not according to me lol. I have 2 loves. Sansui amps and tube amps and of the 2, it's tube amps any day for me. Long live the tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Are EL11s prone to noise?



If your adapters plays up or if you get a noisy pair of EL11s then yes. I buy my EL11 new - NOS NIB. There's better chance of getting quiet ones with NOS and new than old tubes. Most of my NOS EL11 are very quiet. Respect for the quiet ones. They get a pat on the head.


----------



## UntilThen

These were my 1st pair of Telefunken EL11 bought from euroklang back in 2017. I paid NOS price for it and it was new with original boxes. They look sexy to me. However when I tried it in Elise, there was a loud hum from one of the tubes. Not sure why I didn't return it but I gave it Hypnos1 to verify whether it's really bad. He had the same result. Noisy from one of the tubes. So that's when I gave the tubes it's last rites. Told H1 to give it a sea burial.


----------



## UntilThen

It's a folly having a custom amp build for EL11 / EL12 spez in 2019 because these tubes are very difficult to find now. Fortunately for me, I have enough EL11 and EL12 spez to last a life time. More important I believe Berlin will be very good. 

There's a tube amp engineer that has a Youtube posting on the basics of building a SET amp. Have a look at the Youtube clip. In it he talks about considering architecture first, followed by choice of tubes. However he did say that if you have a set of very rare and good tubes, then that takes precedence over the architecture. Or rather the architecture is build around the tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Wow, thanks everyone!  I need to finish out the semester, but it will be easier knowing there is a job for me waiting at the end, it has been a long time coming...



whirlwind said:


> Congrats on securing that job, very nice.
> I will be up in Cleveland Friday night at the Grog Shop.  The wife and I are going to see "Kingfish" Ingram
> We are going to enjoy a few cocktails after the show and spend the night....then maybe hit the west side market Saturday.



@whirlwind sounds like a great plan, hope you guys have a good time.  The West Side Market is fantastic, Czuchraj Meats if you want some of the best jerky you've had in your life, it is incredible.



JazzVinyl said:


> And the NHT's...I have a pair of these too, I do not use them as I like my DIY's better.  But...the NHT's do sound good.  I found that they wanted a LOT of power...very inefficient speakers.  Good, when fed lots of juice...



And @JazzVinyl yeah, those NHT's are very inefficient.  I have them hooked up to a Rogue Audio Sphinx V2, 100 WPC drives them nicely, but I would like to make a change in the near future to something more efficient so I can move from hybrid to true tube amplification.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> And @JazzVinyl yeah, those NHT's are very inefficient.  I have them hooked up to a Rogue Audio Sphinx V2, 100 WPC drives them nicely, but I would like to make a change in the near future to something more efficient so I can move from hybrid to true tube amplification.



My speaker amp is a Hafler 250 WPC...ain't changin'!!

Friend here runs single driver speakers via a tube amp...he has mids...

LOL


----------



## DecentLevi

This new lossless service will be useful for some of you folks... and they will even have better than 16/44 available too!
www.techradar.com/uk/amp/news/amazon-music-takes-on-tidal-with-hi-res-audio-streaming


----------



## Monsterzero

DecentLevi said:


> This new lossless service will be useful for some of you folks... and they will even have better than 16/44 available too!
> www.techradar.com/uk/amp/news/amazon-music-takes-on-tidal-with-hi-res-audio-streaming


 Read some favorable comments over on SH forums. That being said,Ive never streamed a single song in my life,so yall have fun.


----------



## UntilThen

I use Tidal HiFi subscription. CD quality. Unless Amazon provides something better otherwise I see no need to change.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 19, 2019)

I'm more oldschool (and older) than I look. I'm expanding my collection of physical CDs with good used deals of analogue-era retro groups and prefer ripping to 24bit / 88khz FLAC for a well mastered album. For me I'd rather have a hard copy than use so much bandwidth just for a one time stream. The new Amazon option will be cheaper than Tidal though for those who do streaming.


----------



## whirlwind

They have not arrived yet...but Deyan has put them in the mail. Thanks again Deyan for the great service.

I will just leave my tubes in the adapters for a nice snug fit.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Oh, and to finish off my gold build, perhaps some of those Korean B5 sockets and a pair of Opta REN904 drivers.  I'm drooling again.



Here are the sockets for REN904 tube. These are the ones I just ordered
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-REN90...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Here are the sockets for REN904 tube. These are the ones I just ordered
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-REN904-TUBE-SOCKET-TELEFUNKEN-KLANGFILM-MAIHAK/120729592995?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



If I include the MH4/MHL4/REN904 in my future build, I will definitely use these sockets, they look top-notch.  I went with a more compact option for my adapter from Deyan.

https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma...=1308139191413cf4c1a1093246aea7f5c92de5c2fc7b


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> I'm more oldschool (and older) than I look. I'm expanding my collection of physical CDs with good used deals of analogue-era retro groups and prefer ripping to 24bit / 88khz FLAC for a well mastered album. For me I'd rather have a hard copy than use so much bandwidth just for a one time stream. The new Amazon option will be cheaper than Tidal though for those who do streaming.



Hello DL:

If your purchased CD's are redbook standard, Ripping higher than 16/44 will do nothing but take up more real estate.   You cannot add or enhance resolution by ripping thicker than what was there, originally.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Read some favorable comments over on SH forums. That being said,Ive never streamed a single song in my life,so yall have fun.



Now that is old school!  Well done, MZ!!  I have a rather massive 'owned collection' of physical media as well.  And like it that way.  
I have tried data slurping....certainly adds to distractions  and is monthly detrimental, to your bank account.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 19, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Here are the sockets for REN904 tube. These are the ones I just ordered
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-REN904-TUBE-SOCKET-TELEFUNKEN-KLANGFILM-MAIHAK/120729592995?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Nice sockets. I'd want similar for Berlin. I have been researching low powered SET amps driving speakers and there just might be a chance that 11 watts might drive my Axis Voicebox S at low volume in nearfield listening. I like these speakers, it's ultra revealing and doesn't come cheap at $2500. Failing which I'll use Berlin as preamp into either of the Sansui. 

It's distributed by Cardas Collen Imports in USA and they have a new pair of speakers.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> If I include the MH4/MHL4/REN904 in my future build, I will definitely use these sockets, they look top-notch.  I went with a more compact option for my adapter from Deyan.
> 
> https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_156889868968311&key=1e99669452acedd7650a94861c9354cb&libId=k0qprhai0101zlp1000DLg7fctpkq&loc=https://www.head-fi.org/conversations/glenn-otl-pricing.2785983/page-5&v=1&opt=true&out=https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_156889059032912&key=1e99669452acedd7650a94861c9354cb&libId=k0qky5gc0101zlp1000DLf8x5hgf4&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fconversations%2Fnew-order-6j5-and-el3n.2795676%2Fpage-3&v=1&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F2pc-5pin-TEFLONS-Tube-Socket-Gold-For-B4-B5-PX25-PX4-ML4-RE084-British-Valve-Amp%2F130813919141%3F_trkparms%3Dispr%253D1%26hash%3Ditem1e751dffa5%3Ag%3AskIAAOSwY3BZHqiV%26enc%3DAQAEAAAB4BPxNw%252BVj6nta7CKEs3N0qXCIIsdpyvlmAvbqfRWm4k8HEMtcP2n6fAoWaKlEG%252BztAWSJqLxzkFBnK8pbsOjVgSTv5PGF4gUEl37tdSLCUYss8eJJSCXzoi1z1MY67WRY8jBTOtYnRa6G5WPZdvMrHS351V%252Buvo3Lm%252B7TUp0pau6i%252FYFQybV7vUzuWnSEZLWZ49t%252FjoD1uKwWtdp6%252Fw23oboCZjHFSzrSldGMRzE50T%252BAQeEGBmxXYgTh4suED6SLxt9VyO%252FycT3Dh8djDnwdNy0MXinJB2MJ2EehhPim3lC1Zr28iDbx89n8eI2Jz9v952IY4yGSt8gOa2eiC1mm2d3xG2%252BJc%252FzUkT9FLiaH4asGfGYywwtRwycUpZl3c%252FHtuAjYxmm%252B%252FNG%252BhtzlwwWhg%252BZL6GxdjV5SVa1MTCc9Kk60s3cxKUMwsMT82jub9F4mpjw5%252FK647TNjpgEJnPbQdY1RnB%252Be7Mk9f0l79lfW14UR5IPtPARrALKdAF%252BFi7%252B4E9JpYjxbXXmqbV33jcIX1Dd26O4TAIdAJf%252BvF89yfosXJX3YT0%252BJP2ZXgvsTZCnncXfkiSYi6aHS00RndKVKrNItOXS4lD8NFRk1d004Q2Z1P3e5qwcDXatrJwBY9hWDw%253D%253D%26checksum%3D1308139191413cf4c1a1093246aea7f5c92de5c2fc7b&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fconversations%2Fnew-order-6j5-and-el3n.2795676%2Fpage-4&title=New%20order%20-%206J5%20and%20EL3N%20%7C%20Page%203%20%7C%20Headphone%20Reviews%20and%20Discussion%20-%20Head-Fi.org&txt=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F2pc-5pin-T...%3D1308139191413cf4c1a1093246aea7f5c92de5c2fc7b&ref=https://www.head-fi.org/conversations/glenn-otl-pricing.2785983/&title=Glenn OTL Pricing | Page 5 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org&txt=https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma...=1308139191413cf4c1a1093246aea7f5c92de5c2fc7b




Adapter from Deyan??
What are you going  to run these 4volt 1 amp tubes in.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 19, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Adapter from Deyan??
> What are you going  to run these 4volt 1 amp tubes in.



2x B5 to 6SN7 adapter with resistors to drop the 6.3V to 4V.  Am I wrong in thinking that would work?  If so, I gotta tell Deyan!

A similar chassis to the 6J5 adapter he made should fit the resistors fine.  Will be wire-wound or of Deyan's design.  Was basing this on your post here, Glenn.



2359glenn said:


> I also love the L63/6J5 and was looking int the MHL4 a bit pricey though.  Each one will need a 2 ohm 5 watt resistor on the filament if run on 6.3 volts.
> Or if hooked in series 8 volt will need a 4 ohm 10 watt if run at 12 volts. these resistors will get hot.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Nice sockets. I'd want similar for Berlin. I have been researching low powered SET amps driving speakers and there just might be a chance that 11 watts might drive my Axis Voicebox S at low volume in nearfield listening. I like these speakers, it's ultra revealing and doesn't come cheap at $2500. Failing which I'll use Berlin as preamp into either of the Sansui.
> 
> It's distributed by Cardas Collen Imports in USA and they have a new pair of speakers.



Those are gorgeous. I’ll have to wait until we permanently move into a house before I’m able to go find speakers but the next amp I’ll request from Glenn will definitely have speaker/preamp taps.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> *Form over function.* Although that applies to architecture, it does apply here. The exterior design should reflect the amp's intended usage. Quoting Louis H. Sullivan.



Good reference there to Sullivan, think you meant to say 'form _follows _function', as you say in 'design reflecting usage.'

And F.L. Wright said: Form follows function - that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union.

And Louis Kahn offered this: A great building must begin with the unmeasurable, must go through measurable means when it is being designed and in the end must be unmeasurable.

So what is the connection here?   Well, could be the similarities between buildings and any good design...
But the connection to you is that Louis Kahn and a younger architect, Romaldo Giurgola, both taught at the UoP in Philadelphia in the 50s/60s.
In fact, it's hard to imagine the work of Giurgola without the influence of Kahn... And Giurgola was the architect for:

PARLIAMENT HOUSE, CANBERRA.

 

OK, bit of the stretch there.  
However... We do know that the GOTL returns you to the 'unmeasurable.'
And should you visit the Parliament House, you can let us know if Giurgola was successful by Kahn's standard.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Those are gorgeous. I’ll have to wait until we permanently move into a house before I’m able to go find speakers but the next amp I’ll request from Glenn will definitely have speaker/preamp taps.



They do look lovely and they have ribbon tweeters. They are tuned to be clear and revealing but not harsh. It's a natural voice tone. That's how the Voicebox name came about. Brad Shehan who design that speakers also collaborated with John Reilly to produce the Axis Voicebox S.


----------



## rnros

And Zu Audio also has an Omen bookshelf speaker:


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> PARLIAMENT HOUSE, CANBERRA.



Sullivan's idea is still being debated today. Some architect just want to build something unique. It has nothing to do with function. Look at the Marina Bay Sands. You have a boat up in the sky. Look at the Sydney Opera House. It's a sail boat. However they are truly outstanding architectural buildings or rather work of art.

Thanks for that picture of the Parliament House Canberra. It's a beautiful picture ! I have to go and visit it again on the weekend.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 19, 2019)

rnros said:


> However... We do know that the GOTL returns you to the 'unmeasurable.'
> And should you visit the Parliament House, you can let us know if Giurgola was successful by Kahn's standard.



I agree that the return on investment of the GOTL is unmeasureable. 

Visited Parliament House too many times but each time I visit it, I'm still in awed by the splendour of the building, exterior and interior. Even sat in to listen to the House of Representatives and  Senate proceedings sometimes. I want to table the motion that Head-Fi is good for the economy and tube amps are the way to go.

Yes, Giurgola did a splendid job.


----------



## UntilThen

Well nothing is logical in my audio world. I just sold off my Sennheiser HD800, a headphone that was my favourite before the arrival of ZMF Verite. Very soon the Audeze LCD-3f will have to go too. I just can't wear the LCD-3f for long. I get hot spots on my head. With the Verite, I can wear it for hours ! Of course it's not just about comfort. The tone of Verite with my tube amps is the best discovery I've in Head-Fi.

Now I need one more headphone to pair with Verite and I have to choose that with care.  Or maybe I don't need more headphones. Verite is sufficient.


----------



## Deyan

L0rdGwyn said:


> 2x B5 to 6SN7 adapter with resistors to drop the 6.3V to 4V.  Am I wrong in thinking that would work?  If so, I gotta tell Deyan!
> 
> A similar chassis to the 6J5 adapter he made should fit the resistors fine.  Will be wire-wound or of Deyan's design.  Was basing this on your post here, Glenn.



I'm also thinking about cooling the resistors.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Deyan said:


> I'm also thinking about cooling the resistors.



Would this be active cooling, Deyan, like fan-cooled, or passive, like heat fins?  Think a passive solution could look kinda cool (no pun intended).


----------



## Deyan

Either passive. Or I found some NiCr wire rated for 60 watts


----------



## Deyan

Anyways I really enjoy unique builds so I'll go all out on it. And yes the enclosure will be the same with the rotating feature.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Would this be active cooling, Deyan, like fan-cooled, or passive, like heat fins?  Think a passive solution could look kinda cool (no pun intended).



Running on 6.3 volts each tube will need 2 ohm at at least 4 watts 5 watt would be better.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Running on 6.3 volts each tube will need 2 ohm at at least 4 watts 5 watt would be better.



Great, figure this is a good way to give these tubes a try before committing a build to them.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Deyan said:


> Anyways I really enjoy unique builds so I'll go all out on it. And yes the enclosure will be the same with the rotating feature.



Fantastic!  Thanks Deyan, I will leave the artist to his craft.


----------



## Deyan

The crafting should begin in around 2 weeks time.

Speaking of crafting here is a 596 to 5U4G adapter. My portfolio is getting quite thick I don't know how will I repay everyone on th thread


----------



## 2359glenn

Deyan said:


> The crafting should begin in around 2 weeks time.
> 
> Speaking of crafting here is a 596 to 5U4G adapter. My portfolio is getting quite thick I don't know how will I repay everyone on th thread



I make these adapters.
You really need a picture of the 5U4 socket so you get the orientation of the 596 right so it looks good.
you want the two anodes to the right and left when the tube is in the amp. This way the wires go up ether side of the tube
and not in the front of it.


----------



## Phantaminum

@UntilThen Not sure how that seller from India does it but I received two Tung Sol 6c8gs in a matter of three days. I can’t even get the same service from USPS half the time.


----------



## Deyan

L0rdGwyn said:


> Fantastic!  Thanks Deyan, I will leave the artist to his craft.





2359glenn said:


> I make these adapters.
> You really need a picture of the 5U4 socket so you get the orientation of the 596 right so it looks good.
> you want the two anodes to the right and left when the tube is in the amp. This way the wires go up ether side of the tube
> and not in the front of it.



I did try to get the orientation but we will see once it arrives at its destination.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Hey @Phantaminum on the Hitachi vs. NEC 6SN7GTB, here are the differences I am hearing.  The NEC is a little bit darker, more body, smaller soundstage, but more immediacy to the sound.  The Hitachi by comparison sounds a little brighter to me, more ethereal, larger soundstage and more air.

Hope that helps, I would say they are pretty similar technicalities-wise.  I think I prefer the bass on the NEC, but they are both good.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> @UntilThen Not sure how that seller from India does it but I received two Tung Sol 6c8gs in a matter of three days. I can’t even get the same service from USPS half the time.



Picture?  He sends by Fed-Ex which is included in the price of the tube cost. Very fast service indeed. I'm still debating whether to get the GEC 6V6. 

My Studio Six getting the royal treatment here.

Mullard ECC33
2 x Fivre 6V6G
2 x Mullard OB2
Cossor 53ku


----------



## UntilThen

But nothing beats the fast delivery of my Verite. Zach sends it by Fed-Ex International Priority. 3 days !!! From USA to Canberra Australia.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey @Phantaminum on the Hitachi vs. NEC 6SN7GTB, here are the differences I am hearing.  The NEC is a little bit darker, more body, smaller soundstage, but more immediacy to the sound.  The Hitachi by comparison sounds a little brighter to me, more ethereal, larger soundstage and more air.
> 
> Hope that helps, I would say they are pretty similar technicalities-wise.  I think I prefer the bass on the NEC, but they are both good.



Thanks for the description LG. Still debating on if I should or not but I’ll come back to your post when I’m ready. 



UntilThen said:


> Picture?  He sends by Fed-Ex which is included in the price of the tube cost. Very fast service indeed. I'm still debating whether to get the GEC 6V6.
> 
> My Studio Six getting the royal treatment here.
> 
> ...



I’ll post it up after work. At least I know he’s good with delivering it in boxes. Most of the tubes I buy on eBay is delivered in bubble wrap. :/ 

That Cossor is ridiculous in size lol. I’m sure it sounds ridiculously great as well.


----------



## UntilThen

Dang all the GEC 6V6 with the GEC logo are gone ! Who bought all those tubes?


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey @Phantaminum on the Hitachi vs. NEC 6SN7GTB, here are the differences I am hearing.  The NEC is a little bit darker, more body, smaller soundstage, but more immediacy to the sound.  The Hitachi by comparison sounds a little brighter to me, more ethereal, larger soundstage and more air.
> 
> Hope that helps, I would say they are pretty similar technicalities-wise.  I think I prefer the bass on the NEC, but they are both good.


 Based upon these comments I just bought a NOS Hitachi. Hope I didnt get a Russian tube in disguise  
38.00 shipped.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 19, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> That Cossor is ridiculous in size lol. I’m sure it sounds ridiculously great as well.



Some things I discovered for myself. On the Dubstep thread, the GEC U52 is rated higher than the Cossor 53ku but for my ears and gear, I prefer the 53ku over the U52. Again this is from my perspective. On top of that the 53ku is cheaper than the U52 by $30. 

I am sure glad I stave off the other 4 bidders. It was the most intense bidding till the last minute. My max bid was $380 and it close at $370. That's how close I was to losing it lol.


----------



## UntilThen

I once ask @gibosi to name me 3 rectifiers to get because I was only going to buy 3 and no more. This is his list to me:-

GEC U52
Cossor 53ku
Mullard GZ34

I've got all 3 now but I am tempted to seek a 596 rectifier because it looks badass. How does a 596 sound anyway? Warm or bright?


----------



## DecentLevi

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello DL:
> 
> If your purchased CD's are redbook standard, Ripping higher than 16/44 will do nothing but take up more real estate.   You cannot add or enhance resolution by ripping thicker than what was there, originally.


Being fully aware of the redbook 16/44 standard and agreeing there's no way to get higher quality than the original; however for me after extensive testing I could hear a difference between standard FLAC format vs. ultra hi-res rips of the FLAC format that sounded closer to the original WAV file. 

It's perfectly OK if your opinion differs, but for me that is only how I heard it with my ears and my hardware / software so definitely the results could vary for either one of us in different conditions. However this topic has been a flashpoint of heated / endless debate on other threads such as sound science, so for the sake of this thread let's reply by PM or another thread for this.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 19, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I once ask @gibosi to name me 3 rectifiers to get because I was only going to buy 3 and no more. This is his list to me:-
> 
> GEC U52
> Cossor 53ku
> ...


@gibosi  or @whirlwind or Glenn, does the GEL3N use the same type of rectifiers or another type, if it doesn't already come with one? Or which one is most recommended for this amp? This pertains to my custom 4x EL3N / EL34 / KT66 amp. I shall probably choose the name El Darwin.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Based upon these comments I just bought a NOS Hitachi. Hope I didnt get a Russian tube in disguise
> 38.00 shipped.



The telltale signs are the black plates, transparent top mica, three spikes on top and bottom mica.  Could you cancel the order if you needed to?


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Based upon these comments I just bought a NOS Hitachi. Hope I didnt get a Russian tube in disguise
> 38.00 shipped.



I like the Hitachis but feel they need a good amount of burn in before they open up. It’s a detailed tube and neutral but takes a bit before the slight added euphony kicks in.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> The telltale signs are the black plates, transparent top mica, three spikes on top and bottom mica.  Could you cancel the order if you needed to?


Have a look if you will and tell me if I will be drinking sake or vodka.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193097243700


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I like the Hitachis but feel they need a good amount of burn in before they open up. It’s a detailed tube and neutral but takes a bit before the slight added euphony kicks in.



I have 2 Hitachis, one branded RAD-TEL, the other I forgot. Still somewhere in the box. Haven't use it much. Maybe I should dig it up and give it a listen again.


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> Being fully aware of the redbook 16/44 standard and agreeing there's no way to get higher quality than the original; however for me after extensive testing I could hear a difference between standard FLAC format vs. ultra hi-res rips of the FLAC format that sounded closer to the original WAV file.
> 
> It's perfectly OK if your opinion differs, but for me that is only how I heard it with my ears and my hardware / software so definitely the results could vary for either one of us in different conditions. However this topic has been a flashpoint of heated / endless debate on other threads such as sound science, so for the sake of this thread let's reply by PM or another thread for this.



I like it!  Your a wizard!  You can increase the original resolution!  Your going to set the industry on it's ear!

It's actually all in your mind, you cannot increase the original resolution, no matter what you have convinced yourself of.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Have a look if you will and tell me if I will be drinking sake or vodka.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/193097243700



I think you will be drinking both sake and vodka because it's a genuine box. Who cares about the tube.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> I like it!  Your a wizard!  You can increase the original resolution!  Your going to set the industry on it's ear!
> 
> It's actually all in your mind, you cannot increase the original resolution, no matter what you have convinced yourself of.


 I get my native 24 bit lossless from MSFL or HDTracks. Ive been able to detect small differences in the past,but with my new DAC,and with the VC,it demands that I upgrade some of my 16 bit library.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Have a look if you will and tell me if I will be drinking sake or vodka.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/193097243700



I think its legit, slightly different construction, but the micas check out.  More similar in construction to the 12SN7GT in my pic, earlier production before the squished the base down.

Sake for you, my friend!


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 19, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> I like it!  Your a wizard!  You can increase the original resolution!  Your going to set the industry on it's ear!
> 
> It's actually all in your mind, you cannot increase the original resolution, no matter what you have convinced yourself of.


What I tried to convey was that I had to up-convert the FLAC format to a hi-res version to sound closer to the original WAV file. It may have something to do with my ripping software DBPoweramp. Anyway that's my last reply about format types here.


----------



## UntilThen

Format wars will get you nowhere. Similarly vinyl vs digital. To each their own. Someday I feel this is the best. I just get on it and do a John Bonham. Nothing like my live drumming except my little doggie will run for his dear life.


----------



## UntilThen

And if you don't know John Bonham moves listen to this


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> And if you don't know John Bonham moves listen to this


 In another life I was a drummer. My uncle was a drummer for The Coasters,and he loaned me his gold metal flake set indefinitely.
I tried to learn Bonham,but my gosh,he was so hard to replicate,as was Neil Peart. The only Bonham drumming I got semi-down was the opening of Rock and Roll.

David Robinson of The Cars(RIP Rik) and Charlie Watts of the Stones was much more my speed. Funny though,I got David Robinson's off time fills down pat,and impressed my uncle,who couldnt do them.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> In another life I was a drummer. My uncle was a drummer for The Coasters,and he loaned me his gold metal flake set indefinitely.
> I tried to learn Bonham,but my gosh,he was so hard to replicate,as was Neil Peart. The only Bonham drumming I got semi-down was the opening of Rock and Roll.
> 
> David Robinson of The Cars(RIP Rik) and Charlie Watts of the Stones was much more my speed. Funny though,I got David Robinson's off time fills down pat,and impressed my uncle,who couldnt do them.



You have to come to Australia then. We will have a band call the GOTL Rockers.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 19, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Now that is old school!  Well done, MZ!!  I have a rather massive 'owned collection' of physical media as well.  And like it that way.
> I have tried data slurping....certainly adds to distractions  and is monthly detrimental, to your bank account.



Add me to the club...no monthly fee here.  Buying the cd you can get some great sounding stuff, by getting the version of the cd that you want.






2359glenn said:


> I make these adapters.
> You really need a picture of the 5U4 socket so you get the orientation of the 596 right so it looks good.
> you want the two anodes to the right and left when the tube is in the amp. This way the wires go up ether side of the tube
> and not in the front of it.




Your 596 adapters are great Glenn       You can put them how you want them!


 









DecentLevi said:


> @gibosi  or @whirlwind or Glenn, does the GEL3N use the same type of rectifiers or another type, if it doesn't already come with one? Or which one is most recommended for this amp? This pertains to my custom 4x EL3N / EL34 / KT66 amp. I shall probably choose the name El Darwin.




The EL3N amp will accept about all 5 volt and 4 volt....Your amp could be different...always best to ask Glenn.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 19, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I once ask @gibosi to name me 3 rectifiers to get because I was only going to buy 3 and no more. This is his list to me:-
> 
> GEC U52
> Cossor 53ku
> ...




In the EL3N amp with all EL3N tubes it sounds a tad warm of neutral to my ears, but not by much...I have not tried it with any other tubes yet, too dang many tubes and so little time.
It is pretty transparent and has a nice clean sound...it is hard to knock it, but not my favorite.
Maybe consider RK60 also.

I really like the Cossor 53KU also.
@gibosi helped me out tremendously with rectifiers....he has tried sooooo many


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I once ask @gibosi to name me 3 rectifiers to get because I was only going to buy 3 and no more. This is his list to me:-
> 
> GEC U52
> Cossor 53ku
> ...



Maybe I will sell or trade you mine with adapter. I just used it to orient the adapters properly never really used it. Not making many of these adapters anymore.
have to make one this weekend then that is it.
If you want it I will need for what amp and a picture of the rectifier socket so I orient the anode pins correctly.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> I once ask @gibosi to name me 3 rectifiers to get because I was only going to buy 3 and no more. This is his list to me:-
> 
> GEC U52
> Cossor 53ku
> ...



Neither. Clean and dynamic, good extension at both ends, even-handed across the full FR. On my GOTL with my ears and recordings, YMMV.
Easily supports and transparent to the characteristics of the drivers and power tubes I use.
Don't use the British rectifiers so can't reference the sound to the those.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> @gibosi helped me out tremendously with rectifiers....he has tried sooooo many


 Ken deserves a special title here. Instead of Headphonious supremus,he needs the title of Rectifier guru of Head-Fi.



2359glenn said:


> Maybe I will sell or trade you mine with adapter. I just used it to orient the adapters properly never really used it. Not making many of these adapters anymore.
> have to make one this weekend then that is it.
> If you want it I will need for what amp and a picture of the rectifier socket so I orient the anode pins correctly.


 I may be interested in it. Apparently it sounds stellar in my DAC. How much are you asking for the tube and adapter?


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Ken deserves a special title here. Instead of Headphonious supremus,he needs the title of Rectifier guru of Head-Fi.




Yeah, just his information is valuable as he has tried so many that he has the house sound of many brands and also from different factories...pretty cool stuff.


----------



## rnros

Like @whirlwind, I also suggest you consider the 1641/RK60.
It's inexpensive, even with the adapter, and I use it half of the time, so I must like it as much as the 596.
Perhaps just a bit warmer, but definitely more intimate mids. However, nothing overdone or missing.
From my experience, I would recommend the early '40s mil spec with bottom mica and orange base printing.
Might be labeled GE or Raytheon. Don't know who made them for sure, maybe Raytheon.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1641-RK60-...596-274A-274B-5U4-5U4G-5AR4-5R4/223645645612?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Maybe I will sell or trade you mine with adapter.



I'll take it both tube and adapter.  You once offered it to me but I don't think I replied..... yet 

So you can send it anytime you want when you're done with it. We'll discuss price separately.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Like @whirlwind, I also suggest you consider the 1641/RK60.
> It's inexpensive, even with the adapter, and I use it half of the time, so I must like it as much as the 596.
> Perhaps just a bit warmer, but definitely more intimate mids. However, nothing overdone or missing.
> From my experience, I would recommend the early '40s mil spec with bottom mica and orange base printing.
> ...



Do you use the same adapter as the 596?


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Add me to the club...no monthly fee here. Buying the cd you can get some great sounding stuff, by getting the version of the cd that you want.



I have tons of CDs collected over the years, culminating in the years of my interest with Car Audio Competition. Back then in cars, it was CD or radio only, unlike now you can stick a USB stick to it. I've ripped all my CDs to flac files and I use JR River 24 as player for it on PC. On Mac, I use Audirvana 3. 

Additionally my vinyl collection mostly new number just about 300. I subscript to Tidal HiFi. It's ok I don't have other vices. It's not too excessive.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Like @whirlwind, I also suggest you consider the 1641/RK60.



The 596 is more imposing looking. Like the statue of David.


----------



## Phantaminum

Straight from India:

  

From New Jersey:


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Straight from India:



Their tubes are always so new and nice looking and the boxes in the best shape. Pay a bit more but you get quality stuff. I had a quad set of Mullard EL32 grey glass from them. Beautiful.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Their tubes are always so new and nice looking and the boxes in the best shape. Pay a bit more but you get quality stuff. I had a quad set of Mullard EL32 grey glass from them. Beautiful.



Usually, I’m the type who wouldn’t care about what type of box as long as it comes in one or paying more for a tube than what I need to but this guy is really worth buying from. Always NIB and none of the tubes I’ve received from this seller have ran into any issues.

Now the Tung Sol Mouse Ears are definitely going to be tested thoroughly. I’ve received noisy tubes from her 2 out of 4 times.


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 19, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Now the Tung Sol Mouse Ears are definitely going to be tested thoroughly. I’ve received noisy tubes from her 2 out of 4 times.


 If its the same female seller in NJ I bought from,she sent me not one,but two DOA Viking mouse ears. Had to get my $ back. Ive ran into her a couple times since then for other tubes,and I just mosey on past.
@rosgr63 was kind enough to send me one that works. 

Hope yours work for you.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> If its the same female seller in NJ I bought from,she sent me not one,but two DOA Viking mouse ears. Had to get my $ back. Ive ran into her a couple times since then for other tubes,and I just mosey on past.
> @rosgr63 was kind enough to send me one that works.



 I probably bought the ones you returned. 

I'm giving her one last chance. I've returned the tubes to her and she's done good by refunding me but she needs to do a better job at qa/qc on the tubes being sold.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> I probably bought the ones you returned.
> 
> I'm giving her one last chance. I've returned the tubes to her and she's done good by refunding me but she needs to do a better job at qa/qc on the tubes being sold.


 Is she a girl green with envy?


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Is she a girl green with envy?



Hit the nail on the head, lol.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Hit the nail on the head, lol.


 Yeah,sorry bro,I wish you luck. Unless she turns up with a pair of 7802s,I look elsewhere. She didnt hassle me for a refund,but as you said,she needs to actually test to see if her tubes actually work before selling them.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,sorry bro,I wish you luck. Unless she turns up with a pair of 7802s,I look elsewhere. She didnt hassle me for a refund,but as you said,she needs to actually test to see if her tubes actually work before selling them.



Met an audio guy here in Dallas who has a tube tester and tests out tubes for me for free. Older but cool guy. Doesn't ask for anything except a cup of coffee and chatting about audio. Let him borrow my Auteurs and he really enjoyed them that he's thinking of buying a pair. Going to have him tests these out for me plus it's been a few months.

Both tubes sound fine without any background noise so now to verify if they test NOS.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 19, 2019)

Wow I swapped GEC U52 in now and I can't say that the Cossor 53ku is better.

With Cossor 53ku, one eyebrow is raised. With GEC U52, two eyebrows are raised !

With 596, maybe 3 eyebrows?


----------



## 2359glenn

That would be a uni brow.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> That would be a uni brow.



Hilarious !!!

I didn't know there's such a thing as unibrow.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> That would be a uni brow.



LOL...jackin' with the power supply


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> If its the same female seller in NJ I bought from,she sent me not one,but two DOA Viking mouse ears. Had to get my $ back. Ive ran into her a couple times since then for other tubes,and I just mosey on past.
> @rosgr63 was kind enough to send me one that works.
> 
> Hope yours work for you.


He not She. I know, I know.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> That would be a uni brow.


----------



## Phantaminum

attmci said:


> He not She. I know, I know.



Wait, GreenGirl is a he? 

Pretty soon we’ll find out that GreenGirl’s other alias is BangyBangyTubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Getting rid of several power tubes. PM me if interested. Reason being I only use 6 x 6bx7gt and 5998 now. Culling my tubes so to speak. 

quad GEC 6080
2 x Cetron 7236
2 x Cetron 6336b
6 x Svetlana 6h13c
6 x Fotons 6n8s
Tung Sol 6f8g black glass round plates with 2 made in Poland adapters


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Wait, GreenGirl is a he?
> 
> Pretty soon we’ll find out that GreenGirl’s other alias is BangyBangyTubes.


 
No this is green girl. Irresistible.


----------



## Phantaminum

I always pictured it as:


----------



## UntilThen

Ugggh that's not what I have in mind.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm selling off a bunch of tubes. Will only be keeping those that I want to use for GOTL. A bunch of Fivre, Mazda 6N7G, 6A6. It's time to let the tubes go. I can't see how I will be using so many tubes. It's a waste to keep it.

Eventually with the arrival of Berlin, my tube rolling will be minimal with the 3 tube amps that I have. I will have 3 uniquely different tone amps and that good enough for me. Besides there's the Sansui AU-717 which has the most glorious warm and kick ass bass. 

My aim is to settle for Verite Open and Verite Close. I'm happy with just those 2 headphones. The clarity of the Verite is outstanding plus the comfort nature of the tone. It's addictive.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Based upon these comments I just bought a NOS Hitachi. Hope I didnt get a Russian tube in disguise
> 38.00 shipped.


Here is a source for NEC 6SN7GTB made in Japan - Channel Master 6SN7GTB:












In the past I have been able to buy them for $10


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> My aim is to settle for Verite Open and Verite Close.


 LOL!!!! You resisted longer than I thought you would. 
Now the question is,how much will you listen to the VO after getting the VC?!?


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> LOL!!!! You resisted longer than I thought you would.
> Now the question is,how much will you listen to the VO after getting the VC?!?



The more I listen with VO the more I’m hooked. That’s how I got suck in.


----------



## UntilThen

I’m a open headphone guy. I don’t think the VC will replace it but that needs to be seen.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> The more I listen with VO the more I’m hooked. That’s how I got suck in.



I'll just leave this right here....


----------



## UntilThen

It is the best of times. I feel I’m at the end. Berlin will definitely be the finish line. Even Glenn calls it Berlin now.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 20, 2019)

Here is one for you data slurpers...see if you can wrangle a hi-rez version of:

*Mark Knopfler and Emmylou Harris - Love and Happiness*



The harmonies are guitar are delicious.  Rest of this album is good, too.

6x 6BL7 2x EL32, Tung Sol 6SN7GT Mouse Ears, and a full wave bridge of SS rectifiers...approves of these tunes.


----------



## UntilThen

My Hitachi tubes.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> It is the best of times. I feel I’m at the end. Berlin will definitely be the finish line. Even Glenn calls it Berlin now.



I'm happy for you... But at the same time sad for me... as Glenn hasn't even gotten back to me on my project yet.. 

Guess he has too many stuff on his plate..


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Trooper said:


> I'm happy for you... But at the same time sad for me... as Glenn hasn't even gotten back to me on my project yet..
> 
> Guess he has too many stuff on his plate..



Yesterday I was answering PMs from 4:00PM to 8:00PM and didn't answer them all.
I have to stop to get something done.
Will answer over this weekend.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> I'm happy for you... But at the same time sad for me... as Glenn hasn't even gotten back to me on my project yet..
> 
> Guess he has too many stuff on his plate..



Don't worry Sam. I'll remind Glenn about your super amp. 

In the meantime, things are moving at the speed of light with my inventory. HD800 is sold. LCD-3f is listed at a give away price. I expect it to be sold before sunrise. A friend wants to buy my Burson Audio Play.

Ha ! Before I even finish typing, Glenn has answered. Wow 4 hours answering messages. Don't worry Glenn I'll answer them for you.


----------



## Sound Trooper (Sep 20, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Yesterday I was answering PMs from 4:00PM to 8:00PM and didn't answer them all.
> I have to stop to get something done.
> Will answer over this weekend.



Thanks Glenn, looks like you have to hire a secretary to handle the ever growing mountain of PMs.  

I bet @UntilThen will be up for the job. 

Edit: Looks like Matt and I were thinking about the same thing...


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> In the meantime, things are moving at the speed of light with my inventory. HD800 is sold. LCD-3f is listed at a give away price. I expect it to be sold before sunrise. A friend wants to buy my Burson Audio Play.



Sounds fun! On my side, I am waiting for @Deyan to build me those EL34 to EL3N adapters and I have also found a pair of old Mullard EL34 tubes which were listed locally for a song. Not too sure about the condition but I'll report back when I collect them.

And just for the fun of it, I've just gotten my hands on a pair of Focal Elear. Build quality is really nice and it comes with a bloody long cable. On first listen, it sounds really interesting.. I'll spend more them with them over the weekends and will definitely try them with the GEL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Sounds fun! On my side, I am waiting for @Deyan to build me those EL34 to EL3N adapters and I have also found a pair of old Mullard EL34 tubes which were listed locally for a song. Not too sure about the condition but I'll report back when I collect them.
> 
> And just for the fun of it, I've just gotten my hands on a pair of Focal Elear. Build quality is really nice and it comes with a bloody long cable. On first listen, it sounds really interesting.. I'll spend more them with them over the weekends and will definitely try them with the GEL3N.



Sounds like you'll have lots of fun coming your way too. Focal Elear has been listed a few times in our local classifieds at give away price. Likewise Focal Utopia and Clear. I have never seen their price go so low before. 

I'm using ZMF Verite Open now but I won't tell you anything about it because what you don't know, you won't miss.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Thanks Glenn, looks like you have to hire a secretary to handle the ever growing mountain of PMs.
> 
> I bet @UntilThen will be up for the job.
> 
> Edit: Looks like Matt and I were thinking about the same thing...



All messages will be answered here. I don't entertain PMs. I can deal with any topic, be they green girl or form follow function. Remember my waking hours are your sleeping time so there's a 12 hours turn around time for response.


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes you guys are getting special amps.
Now everyone wants a special amp that is good gets boring building the same amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Sounds like you'll have lots of fun coming your way too. Focal Elear has been listed a few times in our local classifieds at give away price. Likewise Focal Utopia and Clear. I have never seen their price go so low before.
> 
> I'm using ZMF Verite Open now but I won't tell you anything about it because what you don't know, you won't miss.



Problem is it is hard to put down the Verite Open.  Other phones sound dead in comparison.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes you guys are getting special amps.
> Now everyone wants a special amp that is good gets boring building the same amp.



It's an exciting time not just for you but for us too. All these ideas about the different builds. It's really fascinating. I'm even interested in hearing about others build. This hobby is just about to enter a different phase.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It's an exciting time not just for you but for us too. All these ideas about the different builds. It's really fascinating. I'm even interested in hearing about others build. This hobby is just about to enter a different phase.



Can build most any amp within reason. As long as not to complicated and take to long to build.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> Sounds like you'll have lots of fun coming your way too. Focal Elear has been listed a few times in our local classifieds at give away price. Likewise Focal Utopia and Clear. I have never seen their price go so low before.
> 
> I'm using ZMF Verite Open now but I won't tell you anything about it because what you don't know, you won't miss.



That is true at my side on the Elear as well, I basically traded my HD58X + USD 100 for the Elear.. I think the Elear was going for USD 999 when it was launched 3years ago? Talk about depreciation eh?


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> Can build most any amp within reason. As long as not to complicated and take to long to build.



..... and I'll have mine painted acid green, with laser lights and a machine blowing bubbles ....  

Just joking,.,,


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Trooper said:


> ..... and I'll have mine painted acid green, with laser lights and a machine blowing bubbles ....
> 
> Just joking,.,,



I can get a green chassis looking into having a blue one built this weekend.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Can build most any amp within reason. As long as not to complicated and take to long to build.



Is it worthwhile for Berlin to have triode, ultralinear and pentode mode switch? to give it more power?

for driving speakers.... triode mode for headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Problem is it is hard to put down the Verite Open.  Other phones sound dead in comparison.



I agree there with you. I won't rush to get the Verite Closed. It will be after I get Berlin. Reason being Verite Open needs my undivided attention. It's not even one month and I'm more and more mesmerised by it with each passing day. Zach is correct when he told me it will get better as time goes on. He also said friends who has been to his place, prefers the Pheasantwood over the Cocobola and Silk. I must have step on a pot of gold.


----------



## Xcalibur255

JazzVinyl said:


> I like it!  Your a wizard!  You can increase the original resolution!  Your going to set the industry on it's ear!
> 
> It's actually all in your mind, you cannot increase the original resolution, no matter what you have convinced yourself of.



What he is doing will result in a different digital filter being employed in his DAC, which definitely can produce an audible difference in the sound.  Whether it's better sounding or not is definitely subjective of course.  I don't know what kind of DAC he has, but most of them have to make some degree of trade-off between loss of clarity due to ringing or increase in harshness due to noise artifacts in their 44.1khz filter.  At 96khz the conditions for the filter are easier and less compromised.  If I understand what was said correctly the music is also being re-sampled which is destructive to the original samples so by definition it has to sound different in some way after that process.  So I don't doubt one can hear a difference, but I would be more skeptical that said difference can be described as "better" but to each his own.  We all have our own preferences.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Is it worthwhile for Berlin to have triode, ultralinear and pentode mode switch? to give it more power?
> 
> for driving speakers.... triode mode for headphones.



I think it might be better to think of this as a tuning option, rather than a power option.  I think a lot of people underestimate how far 10 watts will take you unless you really like to crank it up.  Each of these modes will sound distinctly different though and will all have different 2nd/3rd order harmonic distortion characteristics.  If nothing else it can help adapt an amp to ensure good synergy with the other gear you are connecting.  Personally I prefer to stick with triode mode and just bend over backwards until I find good dance partners for the amps, but that is the expensive and stubborn way to do it.  

I will say if you have speakers and headphones that are naturally fast and dynamic sounding then triode mode is probably all you will ever want to use but that's just my 2 cents on it.  The other modes are going to be more useful for making slower and heavier sound transducers more lively.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> We all have our own preferences.



That is a very perceptive and measured response. To each their own. Similarly on comparison between gear, one can argue which sound better but I've learn from Will that SQ is subjective. He has obviously been in the industry long enough to see it all as a veteran technician when he said, 'I won't argue with you whether a McIntosh or an Audio Note sound best. That's for you to decide!'.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I think it might be better to think of this as a tuning option, rather than a power option.  I think a lot of people underestimate how far 10 watts will take you unless you really like to crank it up.  Each of these modes will sound distinctly different though and will all have different 2nd/3rd order harmonic distortion characteristics.  If nothing else it can help adapt an amp to ensure good synergy with the other gear you are connecting.  Personally I prefer to stick with triode mode and just bend over backwards until I find good dance partners for the amps, but that is the expensive and stubborn way to do it.
> 
> I will say if you have speakers and headphones that are naturally fast and dynamic sounding then triode mode is probably all you will ever want to use but that's just my 2 cents on it.  The other modes are going to be more useful for making slower and heavier sound transducers more lively.



I'm glad we both think the same. When I ask that question, I was hoping that I'd be steered towards a strictly triode mode because in all my readings gleaned from the opinions on the Internet audio forums, the consensus is always that triode mode sound better. I've also found that 10 watts is more than sufficient for driving a pair of high efficiency speakers like the Zu or Omega. I guess I can have 2 pairs of speakers for nearfield listening each driven by a different amp, since I like the VoiceBox that much. Rolling speakers.  And who knows, 10 watts might drive the VoiceBox to listenable enjoyment at low level. I don't blast my speakers anyway.


----------



## Monsterzero

I get its not a glamorous choice,but the Electro Harmonix 6SN7 is a pretty nice sounding tube. Nice treble extension. Good bass. Nice mids. I still prefer the Ken Rad VT231 for the VC,but with the GZ34 in place until my 4v adapter arrives from Deyan,the EH takes away whatever bottom end fat I was hearing with the Ken Rad.

Theres a lot worse ways to spend 20 bucks.


----------



## UntilThen

Looks like my desire to visit Berlin will be realised sooner than I thought. My wife and I will visit my brother in law in Germany in 2021 and I hope to see the sight of the previous Telefunken factory.

Also my decision to simplify my gear has been realised sooner than I thought. I have a buyer for my Audeze LCD-3f waiting for me in Sydney in 7 hours time. So I'll floored the accelerator of my Mercedes AMG GTR as I cruise to Sydney with sweet music from the stereo. Of course if I get pull over by the traffic cop, I can always countered, 'I ain't going fast. I'm just driving a family orientated Honda CRV !'.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Theres a lot worse ways to spend 20 bucks.



Like filling up my petrol tank. That's not even sufficient for half tank. Sob.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 20, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I'm glad we both think the same. When I ask that question, I was hoping that I'd be steered towards a strictly triode mode because in all my readings gleaned from the opinions on the Internet audio forums, the consensus is always that triode mode sound better. I've also found that 10 watts is more than sufficient for driving a pair of high efficiency speakers like the Zu or Omega. I guess I can have 2 pairs of speakers for nearfield listening each driven by a different amp, since I like the VoiceBox that much. Rolling speakers.  And who knows, 10 watts might drive the VoiceBox to listenable enjoyment at low level. I don't blast my speakers anyway.



Do you own a sound level meter?  Establishing what your normal average listening volume is will help you determine whether or not the VoiceBox will work in this application.  It's just a math game when it comes to power.  The voicebox s is very much on the low side for sensitivity at 83dB.  So with a steady signal you would begin to encounter clipping at 92-93 dB with Berlin.  Realistically you can add 1-2dB here too because tubes clip softly before things get ugly.  I would reserve at least 10dB to accommodate dynamic peaks in the music.  So realistically you could play them at around 80dB without getting into trouble.  Even 85dB wouldn't be unreasonable depending upon the music type, and this is getting quite loud.  I personally am typically under 70dB when I listen to my nearfield setup, and can achieve a great sense of immersion at around 75dB, but this is also constrained by my apartment environment too.  Even these levels are probably being rude to the neighbors so I try to stay as low as I can tolerate which is often under 65dB.

Another thing to keep in mind is that these numbers are all @1 meter, but in a nearfield situation I think they come pretty close to being a true representation of the needs of the listening environment.  To be extra safe you can subtract 1-2dB, but again with tubes you have about that much "cheater" headroom in the form of soft clipping so it kind of works itself out.

Once you know what level *you* typically listen at you'll know whether the numbers will work out for you or not.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> I get its not a glamorous choice,but the Electro Harmonix 6SN7 is a pretty nice sounding tube. Nice treble extension. Good bass. Nice mids. I still prefer the Ken Rad VT231 for the VC,but with the GZ34 in place until my 4v adapter arrives from Deyan,the EH takes away whatever bottom end fat I was hearing with the Ken Rad.
> 
> Theres a lot worse ways to spend 20 bucks.



The new production Tung Sol 6SN7GTB is a pretty good tube as well. Sounds like maybe the Electro Harmonix and TS share the same Russian pedigree. I would describe the Tung Sol the same.

I’ve always wondered how the Sophia Electric blue bottle 6SN7 sounds but at $199.99 for a single grade A could buy me three Tung Sol 6C8Gs....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is another for you data slurpers...pretty fun, 2Cellos - a pair of Croatian cello players who bring 'modern cool' to this instrument..check them out:


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> I think it might be better to think of this as a tuning option, rather than a power option.  I think a lot of people underestimate how far 10 watts will take you unless you really like to crank it up.  Each of these modes will sound distinctly different though and will all have different 2nd/3rd order harmonic distortion characteristics.  If nothing else it can help adapt an amp to ensure good synergy with the other gear you are connecting.  Personally I prefer to stick with triode mode and just bend over backwards until I find good dance partners for the amps, but that is the expensive and stubborn way to do it.
> 
> I will say if you have speakers and headphones that are naturally fast and dynamic sounding then triode mode is probably all you will ever want to use but that's just my 2 cents on it.  The other modes are going to be more useful for making slower and heavier sound transducers more lively.



My first EL3N amp I made had a triode/pentode switch it had more power in pentode but I hated the sound in pentode.
So I discontinued this switch.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Do you own a sound level meter?  Establishing what your normal average listening volume is will help you determine whether or not the VoiceBox will work in this application.  It's just a math game when it comes to power.  The voicebox s is very much on the low side for sensitivity at 83dB.  So with a steady signal you would begin to encounter clipping at 92-93 dB with Berlin.  Realistically you can add 1-2dB here too because tubes clip softly before things get ugly.  I would reserve at least 10dB to accommodate dynamic peaks in the music.  So realistically you could play them at around 80dB without getting into trouble.  I personally am typically under 70dB when I listen to my nearfield setup, and can achieve a great sense of immersion at around 75dB, but this is also constrained by my apartment environment too.  Even these levels are probably being rude to the neighbors so I try to stay as low as I can tolerate which is often under 65dB.
> 
> Another thing to keep in mind is that these numbers are all @1 meter, but in a nearfield situation I think they come pretty close to being a true representation of the needs of the listening environment.  To be extra safe you can subtract 1-2dB, but again with tubes you have about that much "cheater" headroom in the form of soft clipping so it kind of works itself out.
> 
> Once you know what level *you* typically listen at you'll know whether the numbers will work out for you or not.



I don't have a sound meter and I typically don't push my speakers at nearfield listening too hard. With the lounge system, that's different. I have more room there. I guess there's only one way to find out when Berlin arrives. Berlin will happen one way or another and the speakers will be chosen to fit it. Also I think I'll use Berlin more for headphones.

Also something I need to be careful about playing loud with either headphones or speakers. Your hearing is precious and once destroyed, it's gone for good. Best to be moderate in all things.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> I don't have a sound meter and I typically don't push my speakers at nearfield listening too hard. With the lounge system, that's different. I have more room there. I guess there's only one way to find out when Berlin arrives. Berlin will happen one way or another and the speakers will be chosen to fit it. Also I think I'll use Berlin more for headphones.
> 
> Also something I need to be careful about playing loud with either headphones or speakers. Your hearing is precious and once destroyed, it's gone for good. Best to be moderate in all things.



Yep.  If I didn't own the LCD-2 I probably wouldn't have tinnitus right now.  One 30-second stupid decision and I have to live with the consequences for the rest of my life.  I think it's VERY common for people to greatly underestimate how loud their music is on headphones and Head-Fi could probably do more to promote awareness of this.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> My first EL3N amp I made had a triode/pentode switch it had more power in pentode but I hated the sound in pentode.
> So I discontinued this switch.


Out of curiosity why did you decide to implement it as triode/pentode rather than triode/ultralinear?  Actually maybe I can guess, it was probably because the output transformers didn't have the right tap for it right?


----------



## Monsterzero

Xcalibur255 said:


> Yep. If I didn't own the LCD-2 I probably wouldn't have tinnitus right now. One 30-second stupid decision and I have to live with the consequences for the rest of my life



Wow man,sorry to hear about that. Hope it goes away eventually. I know my ears were ringing for over a week after I boldly stupidly ventured into the blast radius(front and center. So loud,it was devoid of people. Only time in my life I saw that) of a Motorhead show at the Hollywood Palladium. Eventually it went away. Hope you have the same fortune.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Out of curiosity why did you decide to implement it as triode/pentode rather than triode/ultralinear?  Actually maybe I can guess, it was probably because the output transformers didn't have the right tap for it right?



That's the sort of discussions I like to see engaged.


----------



## UntilThen

Anyway goodnight all. I drive in 2 hours time for Sydney.


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Out of curiosity why did you decide to implement it as triode/pentode rather than triode/ultralinear?  Actually maybe I can guess, it was probably because the output transformers didn't have the right tap for it right?



Right


----------



## JazzVinyl

Xcalibur255 said:


> Yep.  If I didn't own the LCD-2 I probably wouldn't have tinnitus right now.  One 30-second stupid decision and I have to live with the consequences for the rest of my life.  I think it's VERY common for people to greatly underestimate how loud their music is on headphones and Head-Fi could probably do more to promote awareness of this.



Sorry to hear that too, Xc...

And hear ya, MZ.  Growing up in the 70's I attended many "too loud" shows.  But one in particular was punishingly loud, and I distinctively remember my ears ringing hard for a week or a little longer, after.  And that was Neil Young and Crazy Horse at William and Mary college in Williamsburg, VA in 1978 in support of the album "Rust Never Sleeps"....

A great show...but oh my gosh was it ever WAY TOO LOUD.  I am surprised any of the musicians from that era can hear anything.


----------



## mordy

[QUOTE="UntilThen, post: 15199669 I've also found that 10 watts is more than sufficient for driving a pair of high efficiency speakers like the Zu or Omega. I guess I can have 2 pairs of speakers for nearfield listening each driven by a different amp, since I like the VoiceBox that much. Rolling speakers.  And who knows, 10 watts might drive the VoiceBox to listenable enjoyment at low level. I don't blast my speakers anyway. [/QUOTE]

For whatever this observation is worth:
I have an old Sony integrated amp which has a LED watt meter readout. The speakers I have are not very efficient. Most of the time listening at adequate volume in a small room the watt reading did not go over 2-3 watts. (The amp is rated at 85W I think).
I was surprised that this was all what was needed. However, cranking it up for a realistic sounding loud drum solo needed much more.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Read some favorable comments over on SH forums. That being said,Ive never streamed a single song in my life,so yall have fun.



MonsterCurmudgeon


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> MonsterCurmudgeon


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Sorry to hear that too, Xc...
> 
> And hear ya, MZ.  Growing up in the 70's I attended many "too loud" shows.  But one in particular was punishingly loud, and I distinctively remember my ears ringing hard for a week or a little longer, after.  And that was Neil Young and Crazy Horse at William and Mary college in Williamsburg, VA in 1978 in support of the album "Rust Never Sleeps"....
> 
> A great show...but oh my gosh was it ever WAY TOO LOUD.  I am surprised any of the musicians from that era can hear anything.



In 1974 I went to a Deep Purple concert my ears rang for 3 days after woods. Great concert good seats the PA speakers
were right over me. Loudest concert I ever been to.


----------



## Monsterzero

This is right around the time I saw Lemmy and the boys for the 2nd time.

*1986[edit]*
An article by Scott Cohen appeared in the February of 1986 issue of _Spin_ entitled "Motörhead is the Loudest Band on Earth".[12] In it, Cohen alluded to an undated concert during which Cleveland's Variety Theater actually sustained damage from Motörhead reaching a decibel level of 130.[12] This he reported was 10 decibels louder than the record set by The Who.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudest_band


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> In 1974 I went to a Deep Purple concert my ears rang for 3 days after woods. Great concert good seats the PA speakers
> were right over me. Loudest concert I ever been to.



Oh boy!  Bet that was great!  Never got to see them, wanted to.  Did see Uriah Heep, Humble Pie, GFRR, Joe Cocker and Yes (many times) and Jethro Tull (who we dearly loved), the Who, the Stones, Jeff Beck,  and a bunch more


----------



## Zachik

Still cannot decide on a name for my 6 x EL3N amp build.
Maybe just go with "the obvious" choices? 
1. Super GEL3N
2. GEL3N Plus
3. GEL3N Ultra
4. ???

I am trying to design a custom front panel, and the name WILL be on it... 
Also, did anyone ever design a logo for Glenn?  I do not believe Glenn has an "official" logo. If a logo exists - I will have it laser engraved on the front!!
Lastly, should it be "Glenn Studio"?  "Glenn Audio"?


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> Still cannot decide on a name for my 6 x EL3N amp build.
> Maybe just go with "the obvious" choices?
> 1. Super GEL3N
> 2. GEL3N Plus
> ...



GEL3N Ultra Instinct


----------



## JazzVinyl

Zachik said:


> Still cannot decide on a name for my 6 x EL3N amp build.
> Maybe just go with "the obvious" choices?
> 1. Super GEL3N
> 2. GEL3N Plus
> ...



I like 'Ulta' too...'


----------



## JazzVinyl

Question for Glenn...

In the GOTL build that has the full wave bridge of SS rectification, how man milliamperes of B + do we have avail?


----------



## Sound Trooper (Sep 20, 2019)

Hey Guys, I managed to pick up 2 “vintage” Mullard EL34s. Not too sure if they work but up they look like in relatively good shape. Are you able to identify them?

First one. The date code reads B3H1 while the tube type reads Xf2.


Second one. This reads Xf4 B8H2


From what I can tell, tube 1 was manufactured in the Blackburn factory in 1963, 1st week of August. Tube 2 is also made in Blackburn but in 1968, 2nd week of August.

Am I right?

Just to add, both tubes have a single O getter up top, am I correct to say that the double O getter is more desirable?

Edit: just found more info about these. Looks like tube 1 is made in 1973 and tube 2 in 1976-1980. Not really rare tubes in any ways but still (I think) a pretty cool find. Here’s hoping they sound good too.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Still cannot decide on a name for my 6 x EL3N amp build.
> Maybe just go with "the obvious" choices?
> 1. Super GEL3N
> 2. GEL3N Plus
> ...



I don't think anyone designed a logo.

If Glenn really did want a logo and there were some ideas to work with in terms of style, design, etc. I might be able to convince my sister to make one (graphic designer).

For example, would it say 'Glenn Studios', 'Glenn Sound', or 'GS'?

And what type of look, like vintage tube box style, or more modern?  If I could show her some examples and some material to work with, she might do it, but she is a busy bee!


----------



## JazzVinyl

If you are lucky enough to have the full wave bridge of solid state rectifiers in the GOTL...

 

This is a superb 'Glenn 9' to try.

Listening to Depeche Mode "Ultra" and am fully absorbed in the sonic goodness.

Cheerios!!


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Question for Glenn...
> 
> In the GOTL build that has the full wave bridge of SS rectification, how man milliamperes of B + do we have avail?



With SS rectificiation, you have about 1 amp. With standard 5-volt tube rectifiers suitable for use in the GOTL, you have somewhere between 250ma at the low end and 400ma (Western Electric 422A) at the top.

In the configuration you reference above, RCA 1633, 2 X EL32 and 6 X 6BL7, heater current is the limiting factor, not rectifier output current. And any and all GOTL's can easily handle this.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I don't think anyone designed a logo.
> 
> If Glenn really did want a logo and there were some ideas to work with in terms of style, design, etc. I might be able to convince my sister to make one (graphic designer).
> 
> ...



Glenn Studio so says Sir UntilThen


----------



## lukeap69

Phantaminum said:


> GEL3N Ultra Instinct


Dragon Ball fan?


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> With SS rectificiation, you have about 1 amp. With standard 5-volt tube rectifiers suitable for use in the GOTL, you have somewhere between 250ma at the low end and 400ma (Western Electric 422A) at the top.
> 
> In the configuration you reference above, RCA 1633, 2 X EL32 and 6 X 6BL7, heater current is the limiting factor, not rectifier output current. And any and all GOTL's can easily handle this.



Hello G..

I have had reports that those with Tube Rectification are not getting the sonic benefit from driver triplet that the SS folks are.  So I am not at certain as you are regarding the heater current being the only limiting factor.

.


----------



## gibosi (Sep 20, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello G..
> 
> I have had reports that those with Tube Rectification are not getting the sonic benefit from driver triplet that the SS folks are.  So I am not at certain as you are regarding the heater current being the only limiting factor.
> 
> .



Frankly, I have no idea how "sonic benefit" could be limited by the choice of SS or tube rectification.....  For sure, it is different given that all rectifiers, SS and tube, color the sound.

But again, the only real limitation in running "driver triplets" is heater current. After that, everything is subjective....


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 20, 2019)

gibosi said:


> Frankly, I have no idea how "sonic benefit" could be limited by the choice of SS or tube rectification.....  For sure, it is different given that all rectifiers, SS and tube, color the sound.



Also differs in the amount of B + amperage avail,  and how quickly it can react to the amp power demands, right?

No audio signal travels through a rectifier (tube or silicon) only mains AC courses through them.   The audio tubes sound different via various rectifiers because they drop x amount of voltage which alters the operating points of the audio tubes...right?

.


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Also differs in the amount of B + amperage avail,  and how quickly it can react to the amp power demands, right?
> 
> No audio signal travels through a rectifier (tube or silicon) only mains AC courses through them.   The audio tubes sound different via various rectifiers because they drop x amount of voltage which alters the operating points of the audio tubes...right?
> 
> .



When I compare my plugin HEXFRED to a tube rectifier, I can detect no differences that might be attributed to how quickly the amp can react. So I will leave this for the engineers and designers to debate. Frankly I don't care if I can't hear it....

And again, engineers and designers often tell us that voltage drop and the resulting changes to B+ is responsible for the differences we hear between tube rectifiers. However, this has not been my experience. For example, if this were true then all Philips GZ34s would sound the same. After all, they all have the same voltage drop, 17. However, they do not sound the same. In my experience the factory of origin, and not voltage drop, is a much more reliable indicator of a rectifier's sound.

So again, I have no idea how "sonic benefit" could be limited by the choice of SS or tube rectification. And I think it is best if I simply withdraw from this discussion. I'm afraid I have nothing more to contribute....

Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

You are absolutely right Ken. I use to be skeptical about how rectifiers can affect sound quite markedly but having live with tube rectifiers in Studio Six now for a few weeks, I have experience first hand that they can. In fact I love the change in tone the various rectifiers brings.


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> GEL3N Ultra Instinct


Why "Instinct"? 



JazzVinyl said:


> I like 'Ulta' too...'



In general, unless I come up with something smart - I wanted the name to include "EL3N" or "GEL3N", but also to signify it is more than plain EL3N (and thus the "super" or "ultra" or "plus").
Since it will drive both headphones and speakers - maybe something in the name to signify "multi-purpose" or "handles everything" ??



L0rdGwyn said:


> I don't think anyone designed a logo.
> 
> If Glenn really did want a logo and there were some ideas to work with in terms of style, design, etc. I might be able to convince my sister to make one (graphic designer).
> 
> ...


The thread's name is "2359glenn | studio" - so I figured probably "Glenn Studio", but could not find any logo


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> Why "Instinct"?



https://dragonballuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Ultra_Instinct


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Just to add, both tubes have a single O getter up top, am I correct to say that the double O getter is more desirable?



Nope. What is most desirable is what you have.   I am applying the powers of positive thinking here. 

Enjoy the tubes Sam. I'm sure it will sound good being xf2.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Also differs in the amount of B + amperage avail,  and how quickly it can react to the amp power demands, right?
> 
> No audio signal travels through a rectifier (tube or silicon) only mains AC courses through them.   The audio tubes sound different via various rectifiers because they drop x amount of voltage which alters the operating points of the audio tubes...right?
> 
> .



Yes on big amplifiers like guitar amps some guitarists like the sound of what is called sag in the power supply of the amp.
When the output tubes draw a lot of current the B+ voltage drops and causes distortion that they like
In this headphone amp the output tubes are always drawing the same current. Headphones won't draw enough current to drop the B+.
Plus I use massive filter capacitors mostly to get rid of any hum. There is so much energy stored in these capacitors the amp will
never draw enough current to deplete the charge on them. A guitar amp might have a couple of 40uf filter capacitors that the amp
can draw down quickly if the rectifier can't deliver enough current.  This amp has two 850uf capacitors no way will  the charge be depleted.
And yes different rectifiers will deliver a different voltage and it will stay at that.

I am not a big rectifier sound person.  I pick a rectifier that will make the right voltage for the circuit plus I like the slow start.
I use the Russian 5U8C one reason I use even more massive filter capacitors and this is the only rectifier that can handle
the charge current.  Plus with the Heybore transformer the 5U8 gives a perfect 125 volts to each 1/2 of the 6AS7.
So my B+ is a perfect 250 volts just right for this amp.  Yes this amp will sound different with slightly different B+ voltages.
Part of my disbelief of rectifier sound other then changing the voltage is.  There is no way much change is going through
4 filter capacitors with two chokes in the voltage path.
Of course sound is subjective mental thing and if I don't be leave anything is getting through the filtering system I won't here it.


----------



## Zachik

Before settling on the somewhat uninspired "GEL3N Ultra" or "Super GEL3N" - maybe a different approach would be naming the amp after its premise...

So..... GEL3N owners (or people that auditioned it):
*How would you describe the GEL3N sound? *Maybe that would inspire a name...

Another approach could be some cool Greek or Nordic myth name... (avoiding the ones that Schiit already used, of course). Since my amp would drive both headphones and speakers - maybe a multi-headed creature name:

Cerberus: A monstrous multi-headed dog that guards the gate to Hades.
Chimera: Sometimes depicted with the heads of a goat and a lion.
Orthrus: A two-headed dog owned by Geryon.
Scylla: Sometimes described as a six-headed sea monster.
Hecate: Greek goddess of witches, nightmares, crossroads, and one of the Moon deities; sometimes represented with three heads.
Hindi fire-god Agni has two heads
Lastly, from Wikipedia:
*Polycephaly* is the condition of having more than one head. 

Any votes?


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> Yes on big amplifiers like guitar amps some guitarists like the sound of what is called sag in the power supply of the amp.
> When the output tubes draw a lot of current the B+ voltage drops and causes distortion that they like
> In this headphone amp the output tubes are always drawing the same current. Headphones won't draw enough current to drop the B+.
> Plus I use massive filter capacitors mostly to get rid of any hum. There is so much energy stored in these capacitors the amp will
> ...



Good explanation and great information. Thanks. Keep it coming. 

Wish there was a Unified Rectifier Theory, but like Einstein's Unified Field Theory, some parts of the equation are still missing.

I am one of those that does hear a significant difference with rectifiers. 
Can't really separate those perceptions from those that come from drivers and power tubes. Maybe it is partial delusion, maybe it's all delusion.
Don't think so.

I enjoy the discussion, hope it continues, it does seem to be one of those polarizing topics. Doesn't have to be. 
I just want to learn and know more... While I enjoy the different sound of my rectifiers. 

Jeez, 4 hours answering PMs! Guess that's a good thing. Better you than me. I agree, UT should handle your PMs.


----------



## attmci

rnros said:


> Good explanation and great information. Thanks. Keep it coming.
> 
> Wish there was a Unified Rectifier Theory, but like Einstein's Unified Field Theory, some parts of the equation are still missing.
> 
> ...



I am sending a 10T PM to Matt now. I have questions regarding his selling of all those output, driver tubes, and headphones. He should donate all those to me.


----------



## rnros

Zachik said:


> Before settling on the somewhat uninspired "GEL3N Ultra" or "Super GEL3N" - maybe a different approach would be naming the amp after its premise...
> 
> So..... GEL3N owners (or people that auditioned it):
> *How would you describe the GEL3N sound? *Maybe that would inspire a name...
> ...



Why not call it what it is? GEL3N Power Quad, or GEL3N PQ Ultra, or GEL3N Zachik Power Quad.

No comment on Polycephaly... 
OK, just one, sounds like a medical condition, having more than one disease. JK


----------



## rnros

attmci said:


> I am sending a 10T PM to Matt now. I have questions regarding his selling of all those output, driver tubes, and headphones. He should donate all those to me.



Indeed. Surprised he didn't even ask you first!


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Yes on big amplifiers like guitar amps some guitarists like the sound of what is called sag in the power supply of the amp.
> When the output tubes draw a lot of current the B+ voltage drops and causes distortion that they like
> In this headphone amp the output tubes are always drawing the same current. Headphones won't draw enough current to drop the B+.
> Plus I use massive filter capacitors mostly to get rid of any hum. There is so much energy stored in these capacitors the amp will
> ...



Nice explanation, Glenn...appreciate your taking the time to weigh in.  Agree about Guitar amps and the "joy of sag" and also about "you hear what you expect to hear" much of this is mental.

Cheers!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 21, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Straight from India:
> 
> 
> 
> From New Jersey:



Hey @Phantaminum and @UntilThen , are the stickers the seller from India puts on their tube bases easily removable?  I have a certain...hatred...for stickers with adhesive that I cannot get remove easily.

I am considering a purchase


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey @Phantaminum and @UntilThen , are the stickers the seller from India puts on their tube bases easily removable?  I have a certain...hatred...for stickers with adhesive that I cannot get remove easily.
> 
> I am considering a purchase



This stuff will eliminate the glue that holds *any* label on:


----------



## Monsterzero

Admittedly I do not understand the science behind the hows and whys of rectifiers,but there is def a pretty large difference in sound between all my rectifier tubes on the GOTL. 
I dont know how the plugin hexfred differs in sound vs. a permanent hexfred,but im glad that I chose tube rectification for my build.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Admittedly I do not understand the science behind the hows and whys of rectifiers,but there is def a pretty large difference in sound between all my rectifier tubes on the GOTL.
> I dont know how the plugin hexfred differs in sound vs. a permanent hexfred,but im glad that I chose tube rectification for my build.



The only difference I am aware of between the plug-in and built-in HEXFRED is that B+ is slightly higher with the plug-in. As I understand things, when building an OTL with tube rectification, Glenn has designed it around the 3DG4 rectifier which has a voltage drop of 25 volts. Therefore, in order to provide 240 volts for the two 6AS7G, it is necessary to factor in that voltage drop. For example, the American transformer has a tap for 265 volts, less 25, yields a B+ of 240 volts.

On the other hand, a HEXFRED has a voltage drop of only 1 volt. And therefore, B+ with a plug-in will be about 24 volts higher than built-in. However, this is a small enough amount that I doubt there is an audible difference.

Anyway, my notes are on another computer, but I think this is about right....


----------



## rnros

@JazzVinyl  Well, that's an inflammatory post.

No, I meant the one about the Ronsonol, not the one about what we hear being all mental. 
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 21, 2019)

rnros said:


> Good explanation and great information. Thanks. Keep it coming.
> 
> Wish there was a Unified Rectifier Theory, but like Einstein's Unified Field Theory, some parts of the equation are still missing.
> 
> ...



You're a man of eloquence. I have enjoyed reading your posts. Keep it coming. Btw the name UT has crept into my professional life. Sometimes in meetings I introduced myself as UT but no one knows what it means and I've no intentions of explaining it. It's one of those hot polarising topics. What does UT stands for, they would ask.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey @Phantaminum and @UntilThen , are the stickers the seller from India puts on their tube bases easily removable?  I have a certain...hatred...for stickers with adhesive that I cannot get remove easily.
> 
> I am considering a purchase



Sorry Lord Kurisarimon, my Mullard EL32s have no stickers and before I could buy a nice pair of GEC 6V6 with GEC logos they are gone. Sold out !


----------



## JazzVinyl

rnros said:


> @JazzVinyl  Well, that's an inflammatory post.
> 
> No, I meant the one about the Ronsonol, not the one about what we hear being all mental.
> (Sorry, couldn't resist.)



Right-o!  If you like your labels a-burnin', it's THE way to go  

On the rectifiers, since they are not part of the audio signal processing chain, they cannot have a 'sound'.  They can only affect the audio signal processing tubes' sound, by altering their operating points.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I am sending a 10T PM to Matt now. I have questions regarding his selling of all those output, driver tubes, and headphones. He should donate all those to me.



I woke up this morning with no PMs. So all is good in the land of Glenn Studio's thread.  If you're inquiring about buying the HD800 and LCD-3f, it's too late. Transactions made. The headphones are gone and my wallet's heavier now. The wallet's behaving like the tube rectifier's sag and rise anomaly. It's fascinating to watch. 

Btw the journey to Sydney was great. Sunshine all the way. The way back to Canberra was all rain. Strange thing the weather. Fortunately I had a companion.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Sorry Lord Kurisarimon, my Mullard EL32s have no stickers and before I could buy a nice pair of GEC 6V6 with GEC logos they are gone. Sold out !



You have failed me for the last time...

No matter, I will use @JazzVinyl 's method, or my personal favorites, acetone and isopropyl alcohol.  And if I STILL can't get residue off, the tube will be doused in enough combustible liquids by then, I might as well just light it on fire and stay warm, winter is coming.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> You have failed me for the last time...



I have some UT stickers if that helps.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> You're a man of eloquence. I have enjoyed reading your posts. Keep it coming. Btw the name UT has crept into my professional life. Sometimes in meetings I introduced myself as UT but no one knows what it means and I've no intentions of explanation it. It's one of those hot polarising topics. What does UT stands for, they would ask.



Thank you, kind sir. Of course, my wife would disagree.
Haha. That must make for some interesting interaction at the conference table. "U, what do you think? Yes, you. Excuse me, I was talking to U."


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Still cannot decide on a name for my 6 x EL3N amp build.
> Maybe just go with "the obvious" choices?
> 1. Super GEL3N
> 2. GEL3N Plus
> ...



Zachik, Zachik, Zachik. You need to know the importance of a name. It has to stand out, it has to be short and easy to remember. All those names you have suggested are 2 words and GEL3N is becoming too common. However no names from the Norse Cosmology because everything there are being taken, including my Yggdrasil. So think of something else and remember one word like Superman, Batman but you can't use those as well or Disney will come after you.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Since a 6 resembles a G, how about 6EL3N.  Simple and descriptive


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Since a 6 resembles a G, how about 6EL3N.  Simple and descriptive



Nope. You can't pronounced 6EL3N. You have to enunciate each of those numbers and alphabetic clearly. It should be something like Bob where you can just say Bob and not spell it out loud as B O B.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Nope. You can't pronounced 6EL3N. You have to enunciate each of those numbers and alphabetic clearly. It should be something like Bob where you can just say Bob and not spell it out loud as B O B.



In that case, I will name my upcoming amp, Amp™.


----------



## UntilThen

Just had a listen with the HD800 again as it's not being send yet. Funds from the seller not cleared yet. It's stunning on Studio Six !!!

I think I have to rescind the transaction. I even offered the Forza Audioworks cable free. Yeah I think I will change my mind and keep the Sennhesier. It's unique and a legend that has stood the test of time.


----------



## Velozity

Zachik said:


> Before settling on the somewhat uninspired "GEL3N Ultra" or "Super GEL3N" - maybe a different approach would be naming the amp after its premise...
> 
> So..... GEL3N owners (or people that auditioned it):
> *How would you describe the GEL3N sound? *Maybe that would inspire a name...
> ...






How about El Threen?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> The only difference I am aware of between the plug-in and built-in HEXFRED is that B+ is slightly higher with the plug-in. As I understand things, when building an OTL with tube rectification, Glenn has designed it around the 3DG4 rectifier which has a voltage drop of 25 volts. Therefore, in order to provide 240 volts for the two 6AS7G, it is necessary to factor in that voltage drop. For example, the American transformer has a tap for 265 volts, less 25, yields a B+ of 240 volts.
> 
> On the other hand, a HEXFRED has a voltage drop of only 1 volt. And therefore, B+ with a plug-in will be about 24 volts higher than built-in. However, this is a small enough amount that I doubt there is an audible difference.
> 
> Anyway, my notes are on another computer, but I think this is about right....



You know I shouldn't have said anything. Don't know why I am going to say something now.
24 volts is a big difference in voltage and will make a difference in sound.
What do you think the different rectifiers do change the voltage a little one way or the other.
As far as I feel rectifiers have no sound they change AC to pulsating DC then the filters smooth it to pure DC.


----------



## 2359glenn

Just got back from the city and went to the Texas Road House dam they have a good steak for a good price.
Just saying if anybody has one near them I recommend trying them if you like steak.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> You know I shouldn't have said anything. Don't know why I am going to say something now.
> 24 volts is a big difference in voltage and will make a difference in sound.
> What do you think the different rectifiers do change the voltage a little one way or the other.
> As far as I feel rectifiers have no sound they change AC to pulsating DC then the filters smooth it to pure DC.



So you believe that an OTL with a built-in HEXFRED will sound different than an OTL with a plug-in HEXFRED due to the different B+ value?


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> Just got back from the city and went to the Texas Road House dam they have a good steak for a good price.
> Just saying if anybody has one near them I recommend trying them if you like steak.



I've got one right around the corner from my house. It's pretty good, although it's busy ALL THE TIME. There's a LongHorn Steakhouse just a mile away that I end up going to more.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Just got back from the city and went to the Texas Road House dam they have a good steak for a good price.
> Just saying if anybody has one near them I recommend trying them if you like steak.


 Apparently I have one approx 10 miles from me in Deer Park, Might have to try it,though getting my wife to go might be a challenge. She loathes the taste of beef.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> So you believe that an OTL with a built-in HEXFRED will sound different than an OTL with a plug-in HEXFRED due to the different B+ value?


 Its you,Whirlwind(I think) Zach and myself on Team Tube Rectifier. If its truly just different ratings causing the change in sound,sobeit. I dont care what causes the change in sound. All I know is i love my GEC 18/20!


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Apparently I have one approx 10 miles from me in Deer Park, Might have to try it,though getting my wife to go might be a challenge. She loathes the taste of beef.



They have a lot of other things besides Beef. Good ribs and my Mom gets their chicken sometimes.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> So you believe that an OTL with a built-in HEXFRED will sound different than an OTL with a plug-in HEXFRED due to the different B+ value?



That is according to the transformer used.
A amp with a tube rectifier and Lundahl transformer will always being running under voltage. Weather this sounds better or worse I don't know.
A amp with a Heybore transformer with the SS adapter will be running over voltage. What the sound is I don't know.
For me I go by specs and the amp should be at 250 volts. I would suspect that would sound best but who knows.

In the past I made a preamp for someone with a separate adjustable power supply.  This was so he could change the B+ voltage and change the sound.
It worked the power could go down to 50 volts and used 12AU7s. Actually sounded better at a lower voltage who knows.


----------



## heliosphann

So I finally got a pair of GEC 6AS7G's! Not without a bit of drama of course. They showed up 3 days late from the USPS in a bagged, half-destroyed box. Even one of the tube boxes was severely damaged, yet the tubes were fine!

Listening to them right now trying to find a good driver/rectifier combo. Any suggestions?


----------



## Phantaminum

I have three 5u4g rectifiers. The Tung Sol 5U4G doesn’t sound as neutral as the Russian 5U4G (even after burning it in for 50 hours it still sounds rough in the upper treble with some grain). The Russian has a clean sound and so does the RCA 5u4g but the RCA sounds warmer. 

I mostly have a neutral set up in the Teton but you can hear some small differences between the same type of tube rectifier.


----------



## UntilThen

I am having a juicy steak now.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Its you,Whirlwind(I think) Zach and myself on Team Tube Rectifier. If its truly just different ratings causing the change in sound,sobeit. I dont care what causes the change in sound. All I know is i love my GEC 18/20!



Guess I'm just chopped liver...


----------



## UntilThen

My 3 rectifiers sounds like the 3 Tenors. Each uniquely different.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> Guess I'm just chopped liver...


LOL,sorry mate! I cant keep track of my gear let alone all the various GOTL builds.

I just looked on eBay for a B36 to pair up with your 6as7g...not a single one. Its a very nice sounding tube if you can find one that matches up well with the GEC 6as7g. I didnt like a triple GEC roll though. 

I am bidding on a Marconi U18/20,so kindly dont up bid me.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-EARLY...3c5de6f95:g:ePcAAOSwcwxdfPW5&autorefresh=true


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> LOL,sorry mate! I cant keep track of my gear let alone all the various GOTL builds.
> 
> I just looked on eBay for a B36 to pair up with your 6as7g...not a single one. Its a very nice sounding tube if you can find one that matches up well with the GEC 6as7g. I didnt like a triple GEC roll though.
> 
> ...



That's a damn good looking tube.


----------



## heliosphann

heliosphann said:


> So I finally got a pair of GEC 6AS7G's! Not without a bit of drama of course. They showed up 3 days late from the USPS in a bagged, half-destroyed box. Even one of the tube boxes was severely damaged, yet the tubes were fine!
> 
> Listening to them right now trying to find a good driver/rectifier combo. Any suggestions?



BTW, it turns out @DecentLevi was the one who sold them to me through Ebay. We just figured it out when I let him know they arrived safely. Too funny.


----------



## attmci

heliosphann said:


> BTW, it turns out @DecentLevi was the one who sold them to me through Ebay. We just figured it out when I let him know they arrived safely. Too funny.


Good luck with your new tubes.


----------



## Monsterzero

@DecentLevi if youre gonna sell good tubes,kindly let us GOTL owners know before hand...or not.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Just had a listen with the HD800 again as it's not being send yet. Funds from the seller not cleared yet. It's stunning on Studio Six !!!
> 
> I think I have to rescind the transaction. I even offered the Forza Audioworks cable free. Yeah I think I will change my mind and keep the Sennhesier. It's unique and a legend that has stood the test of time.


I still have mine and the LCD-3F.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I am having a juicy steak now.


VC???


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I woke up this morning with no PMs. So all is good in the land of Glenn Studio's thread.  If you're inquiring about buying the HD800 and LCD-3f, it's too late. Transactions made. The headphones are gone and my wallet's heavier now. The wallet's behaving like the tube rectifier's sag and rise anomaly. It's fascinating to watch.
> 
> Btw the journey to Sydney was great. Sunshine all the way. The way back to Canberra was all rain. Strange thing the weather. Fortunately I had a companion.


It's coming. Still uploading.


----------



## attmci (Sep 21, 2019)

I believe I found the trick to get famous @Head-Fi.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I believe I found the trick to get famous @Head-Fi.



You been stalking me?


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> They have a lot of other things besides Beef. Good ribs and my Mom gets their chicken sometimes.



Do you know they are rated as the 2nd best steak house in the country.
There steaks melt in your mouth usually can cut them with a fork.
Getting in is the problem usually a line out the door.


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 21, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> That's a damn good looking tube.



You can use two GEC L63 with a adapter They = a GEC B65 or B36.
I use the GEC L63s driving GEC 6AS7s sound great with the Verite And they will cost allot less then a B65.  The pair cost me $150 for the ST shape the straight sided ones are less money.
Try the Brimar 13D1/25SN7 for the driver.  I think I gave you one with the amp?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 21, 2019)

Been snooping around the net for signs of MH4 usage in audio amplifiers.  I found a picture of this GEC manufactured 14WPC push-pull power amp. MH4 input, PX5 output, from 1935.  How much do you think one of these would go for on eBay?




Here is a more modern take from a custom amp manufacturer in Hong Kong, 6WPC, MH4 input PX5 output.



Other than that, mostly DIY stuff, nothing mainstream, probably because they are uncommon.  Looking forward to getting these in an amp


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> You can use two GEC L63 with a adapter They = a GEC B65 or B36.
> I use the GEC L63s driving GEC 6AS7s sound great with the Verite And they will cost allot less then a B65.  The pair cost me $150 for the ST shape the straight sided ones are less money.
> Try the Brimar 13D1/25SN7 for the driver.  I think I gave you one with the amp?



Yea. Even though I've made a list of adapters for Deyan to make for me, I've been hesistant as it will just lead to me buying more tubes! 

Right now I've got a GZ32/ECC35 with the GEC's. Sounds pretty good. I'll try that Brimar 13D1.


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 21, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Been snooping around the net for signs of MH4 usage in audio amplifiers.  I found a picture of this GEC manufactured 14WPC push-pull power amp. MH4 input, PX5 output, from 1935.  How much do you think one of these would go for on eBay?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would think that GEC amp goes for $15,000 each.
Cant wait to get the MH4 tubes.  Hell just to look at them!


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> LOL,sorry mate! I cant keep track of my gear let alone all the various GOTL builds.
> 
> I just looked on eBay for a B36 to pair up with your 6as7g...not a single one. Its a very nice sounding tube if you can find one that matches up well with the GEC 6as7g. I didnt like a triple GEC roll though.
> 
> ...



Being I promesed my 596 to UT a couple of weeks ago
I can make you a RK60/1641 adapter with the tube.  Close to a 596.


----------



## UntilThen

I think the 596 with green cable in Berlin will look real good. I’ll play AC/DC songs on it.


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 21, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I think the 596 with green cable in Berlin will look real good. I’ll play AC/DC songs on it.



I already made your adapter with green wires.
Have it in Ken Ji's amp now sounding good with 13D1 and 6080s

If you want it early maybe I can ship it first class mail won't cost that much maybe.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 21, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> BTW, it turns out @DecentLevi was the one who sold them to me through Ebay. We just figured it out when I let him know they arrived safely. Too funny.





Monsterzero said:


> @DecentLevi if youre gonna sell good tubes,kindly let us GOTL owners know before hand...or not.


Wow am I the only Levi in the US? LoL. Yup those 2x GEC 6AS7G were sold on eBay by yours truly. I'm glad they work because they are in quite fine shape and cared for over all the years. They're burned in just enough that to me they sound even better than another NOS pair I received a while back, but still should have a fair bit of life left. As mentioned during the sale they're not matched and one being GEC and the other MWT with a slight variance in shape, but both A1834 and (perhaps?) made at the same factory and sounding perfectly matched, sonically.

I sold them in anticipation of my upcoming El Darwin amp, as I call it, making way for other tubes. Apologies on the shipping, a fluke incident with the US Post Office where although I sent two boxes at the same time of the same size and same 2-day Priority Mail service, yours happened to go on a route that would give the box a beating and a delay vs. the other one, for reasons beyond me.

I'm still more into the habit of posting on eBay for a larger userbase, but I could also reference it here.


----------



## DecentLevi

Even more ironic is that in the same day I had completed my pair of GEC KT66 for my upcoming Glenn amp. They appear in pristine, NOS shape but from different sellers and you can see some slight variation in width, the thinner one coming from the much newer looking yellow+blue box in the background. Serial #'s 7836 and 7701, hopefully not too far apart.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Even more ironic is that in the same day I had completed my pair of GEC KT66 for my upcoming Glenn amp. They appear in pristine, NOS shape but from different sellers and you can see some slight variation in width, the thinner one coming from the much newer looking yellow+blue box in the background. Serial #'s 7836 and 7701, hopefully not too far apart.



Nice tubes


----------



## heliosphann

I almost got a beautiful NOS pair of GEC 6AS7G's today, but some person sniped me in the last 30 seconds. I bid his punk ass up to $670 though.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Being I promesed my 596 to UT a couple of weeks ago
> I can make you a RK60/1641 adapter with the tube.  Close to a 596.



Thanks Glenn. I will ask over in the TRP tube rolling thread about this specific tube and see what the consensus is on it.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I already made your adapter with green wires.
> Have it in Ken Ji's amp now sounding good with 13D1 and 6080s
> 
> If you want it early maybe I can ship it first class mail won't cost that much maybe.



Omg Ken Ji  @UsoppNoKami  will be over the moon. He's been waiting for his amp a looooooong time haha. Now he can listen to his Verite Pheasant wood with the GOTL.

Glenn, any which way you want to send it will be fine. I'll use in Studio Six till Berlin is born.


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> I almost got a beautiful NOS pair of GEC 6AS7G's today, but some person sniped me in the last 30 seconds. I bid his punk ass up to $670 though.



Don't call me that. It was me.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 21, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> I would think that GEC amp goes for $15,000 each.
> Cant wait to get the MH4 tubes.  Hell just to look at them!



Just bought a pair myself Glenn.  Marconi-Osram CV399, military MH4.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Don't call me that. It was me.


Wait...you sold me a pair for 500.00 cuz you were only gonna use 6bx7s from now on,and then you bought another pair for 670.00?!?


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Wait...you sold me a pair for 500.00 cuz you were only gonna use 6bx7s from now on,and then you bought another pair for 670.00?!?



It wasn't me. I wanted to pull his legs.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Since a 6 resembles a G, how about 6EL3N.  Simple and descriptive


I came up with this exact one myself a while ago... but:



UntilThen said:


> Nope. *You can't pronounced 6EL3N*. You have to enunciate each of those numbers and alphabetic clearly. It should be something like Bob where you can just say Bob and not spell it out loud as B O B.


Yeah - I was dismissing it due to: "how the hell would I pronounce it?!"  
I am actually now rethinking it..... I agree with @L0rdGwyn that is it very simple and describes perfectly the 6 x EL3N architecture...



Velozity said:


> How about El Threen?


I personally still like 6EL3N better! Not a bad one, though.  Thanks!


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> It wasn't me. I wanted to pull his legs.



I thought you were supposed to be selling me tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

I pull out Mrs Xuling dual EL11 to 6sn7 adapter and plonk the Siemens EL11 into GOTL with 6 x 6bx7gt again because I kind of miss this combo. Simply amazing! No noise but just beautiful music. This combo vie for the best in the Wall of Flames. It's that good. Think c3g and 6 x 6bx7gt but with treble dial back a little, mids blossom out and is more forward and bass is halfway between c3g and 5998. It's a knockout tone !


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 21, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> I thought you were supposed to be selling me tubes?



Yup I will sell you 2 x Cetron 7236 and quad GEC 6080. If you have already 2 x Tung Sol 7236, then quad 7236 with whatever driver you fancy, will make you smile all day and all night. However if you think that is good then you need to try Tung Sol 6sn7gt bgrp and quad GEC 6080 and then you will smile in your sleep guaranteed.


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> Yup I will sell you 2 x Cetron 7236 and quad GEC 6080. If you have already 2 x Tung Sol 7236, then quad 7236 with whatever driver you fancy, will make you smile all day and all night. However if you think that is good then you need to try Tung Sol 6sn7gt bgrp and quad GEC 6080 and then you will smile in your sleep guaranteed.



I've already got Quad GEC 6080 and Quad TS 7236. 

Pretty set on power tubes minus the 7802's (and maybe a pair of 421a's).


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> I've already got Quad GEC 6080 and Quad TS 7236.
> 
> Pretty set on power tubes minus the 7802's (and maybe a pair of 421a's).



Excellent you don't need anymore tubes then.


----------



## UntilThen

Siemens EL11 and 6 x 6bx7gt is the best combo for me. Decided by the executive council within me. However this combo has some static not heard through the headphone but when you put your ears near the dual EL11 tubes then you hear it. I suspect it's the adapter again. So I'll discontinue it till Berlin arrives.


----------



## UntilThen

Static or no static, it's hard to stop. Both Verite and HD800 sounds so good with Siemens EL11 and 6 x 6BX7gt. I ain't selling HD800 no more !!! It's kind of ying / yang with Verite. The Sennheiser has such resolution powers while the Verite is comfort plus.


----------



## Velozity

I'm fairly certain I'm going to sell my pair of NOS GEC CV2523 / 6AS7G in the coming weeks.  My head-fi setup is at work and I get nervous using virtually irreplaceable tubes on a daily basis.  I mostly use TS 7236 and occasionally 5998 now.  My GOTL is almost done so I'll probably wait until it gets here before I sell,  but GOTL owners get first dibs.


----------



## UntilThen

Velozity said:


> I'm fairly certain I'm going to sell my pair of NOS GEC CV2523 / 6AS7G in the coming weeks.  My head-fi setup is at work and I get nervous using virtually irreplaceable tubes on a daily basis.  I mostly use TS 7236 and occasionally 5998 now.  My GOTL is almost done so I'll probably wait until it gets here before I sell,  but GOTL owners get first dibs.



Good to hear that you're getting your GOTL soon. When you get it, you will find out for yourself what tubes you like best in it with your own gear and your ears. Forget about others recommendation. Listen for yourself and be guided by your own preference. There's no right or wrong. SQ is subjective.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn must be working overtime churning out GOTLs as fast as possible. Putting the HD800 through it's pace with the GOTL now. Tubes are a Hitachi 6sn7gtb NOS (branded Rad-Tel) and 6 x 6bx7gt. This combination sings ! The Hitachi 6sn7gtb surprise me. It's clear, neutral sounding with a crystal clarity. This could be the daily driver and it's cheap ! HD800 is on fire and is as good as the last 18 months with GOTL. Glad I decide to keep it.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Just bought a pair myself Glenn.  Marconi-Osram CV399, military MH4.



Nice tubes!!!!
Can't wait to start playing with these tubes a new one for me.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey Guys, I managed to pick up 2 “vintage” Mullard EL34s. Not too sure if they work but up they look like in relatively good shape. Are you able to identify them?
> 
> First one. The date code reads B3H1 while the tube type reads Xf2.
> 
> ...




Xf2's with the single  "O" getter are from 1973...the 1963 tubes have the doulble "O" getter.
The latter xf3 and all xf4 tubes are supposedly not as good.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Static or no static, it's hard to stop. Both Verite and HD800 sounds so good with Siemens EL11 and 6 x 6BX7gt. I ain't selling HD800 no more !!! It's kind of ying / yang with Verite. The Sennheiser has such resolution powers while the Verite is comfort plus.



I haven't listened to my HD-800s since I got the Verite but I will never sell them.  Sound to good clean and crisp sound just have to have the right amp with them.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> You have failed me for the last time...
> 
> No matter, I will use @JazzVinyl 's method, or my personal favorites, acetone and isopropyl alcohol.  And if I STILL can't get residue off, the tube will be doused in enough combustible liquids by then, I might as well just light it on fire and stay warm, winter is coming.




Use a hair dryer to get the glue hot on the sticker...once it is hot enough the sticker will pull off.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn must be working overtime churning out GOTLs as fast as possible. Putting the HD800 through it's pace with the GOTL now. Tubes are a Hitachi 6sn7gtb NOS (branded Rad-Tel) and 6 x 6bx7gt. This combination sings ! The Hitachi 6sn7gtb surprise me. It's clear, neutral sounding with a crystal clarity. This could be the daily driver and it's cheap ! HD800 is on fire and is as good as the last 18 months with GOTL. Glad I decide to keep it.



Yes feeling pretty good at the moment and am trying to get many amps out as possible.  Still takes weeks to build one doing it for a couple of hours after work.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 22, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Just got back from the city and went to the Texas Road House dam they have a good steak for a good price.
> Just saying if anybody has one near them I recommend trying them if you like steak.



We have one that we frequent regularly...about 30 miles away.....great steaks.
The rolls are killer also!






DecentLevi said:


> Even more ironic is that in the[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> DecentLevi said:
> ...


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 22, 2019)

I am still rocking the EL34 tubes in the GEL3N...pretty content.

I must admit an EL34, KT66,EL37,KT77 amp with different transformers really get my attention....enough so that I may cancel my OTL and keep the OTL that I have and opt for something different...will have to discuss with Glenn.
EL34 sounds great getting only 250 volts to the plates.








@L0rdGwyn the Kingfish juke joint gig at the Grop Shop was great.....loved seeing this guy where you could get up close and personal
and get to watch his hands and fingers bend strings and make magic. He is a big boy!


 



Also made that trip to the West Side Market.....my buddies will be happy tonight when they come over for the browns game.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> We have one that we frequent regularly...about 30 miles away.....great steaks.
> The rolls are killer also!



The problem is if you eat to many rolls your full before the steaks come out. Have done this in the past but learned.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The problem is if you eat to many rolls your full before the steaks come out. Have done this in the past but learned.



I agree...the butter on those damn rolls are so good...you can save them for desert.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> @L0rdGwyn the Kingfish juke joint gig at the Grop Shop was great.....loved seeing this guy where you could get up close and personal
> and get to watch his hands and fingers bend strings and make magic. He is a big boy!
> 
> 
> Also made that trip to the West Side Market.....my buddies will be happy tonight when they come over for the browns game.



Amazing!  Glad you had a good time.  Is that jerky from Czuchraj Meats?!  So many good places there, that one is my favorite, your friends are spoiled.

Hopefully the game goes well tonight...but I dunno, these Browns have me concerned.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 22, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Nice tubes!!!!
> Can't wait to start playing with these tubes a new one for me.



Yeah, I'm excited about it too.  I think including B5 sockets in my amp next year is gonna happen, I'm committed now.  I would have them in the front, 6J5 behind, too many good looking tubes in this family for them not to be front row.  Hopefully the crazy adapter Deyan is building me works out and I can give them a test run in the GOTL.  If those globe Tele's are still around in a few months...I may have to pull the trigger, but I wanted to get a pair of MOVs first.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Amazing!  Glad you had a good time.  Is that jerky from Czuchraj Meats?!  So many good places there, that one is my favorite, your friends are spoiled.
> 
> Hopefully the game goes well tonight...but I dunno, these Browns have me concerned.




I am worried for the Browns tonight also. They have a terrible offensive line with no depth at the position.Baker may get killed by Aaron Donald, lol.
I just read where they may be without the whole defensive backfield tonight...What!
David Njoku has been placed on IR.

Yes the meats are from Czuchraj meats...I bought
Mild Jerky, bacon jerkey, bbq jerky, peach and habanero jerky and some Baker Mayfield jerky...made with ghost peppers, i will pass on this one and let the guys feel the burn.

I also got one of their cards so I can just order online and have the meat shipped.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> I am worried for the Browns tonight also. They have a terrible offensive line with no depth at the position.Baker may get killed by Aaron Donald, lol.
> I just read where they may be without the whole defensive backfield tonight...What!
> David Njoku has been placed on IR.
> 
> ...



WOW what a lineup, I had no idea I could have it shipped to me, this is a game-changer...

And yeah, our defensive backfield is gone, backup tight ends, it is gonna be ugly.  Hopefully Baker comes out of it alive.


----------



## 2359glenn

Just bought some EL34s decided against the EL12spez.  Hard to get and a crazy socket will always be able to get replacement EL34s.
And I know the EL34 sounds good.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 22, 2019)

EL34 sounds real good...what I like abot EL34,KT66,,KT77 is that you can get nice old skool ones but also get can reissued tubes for all pretty cheap...not sure how they sound
but I would think while maybe not as good as the best...still maybe 80% or more of the best.

The EL3N are already cheap.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 22, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Just bought some EL34s decided against the EL12spez.  Hard to get and a crazy socket will always be able to get replacement EL34s.
> And I know the EL34 sounds good.



I will be doing a deep dive into what power tubes to use in my 2020 6J5/MH4 build soon.  I have been all OTL or hybrid up to this point, so I am pretty transformer-coupled power tube naive.  Will keep the EL34 in mind, but any suggestions from people with more experience would be appreciated.  I have started my homework on 6L6.

I was reading that KT66 as strapped triodes perform almost identically to PX5, which seems to be a common MH4 pairing.  Obviously don't need to worry about feeding filtered DC to the filaments too.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I haven't listened to my HD-800s since I got the Verite but I will never sell them.  *Sound to good clean and crisp sound just have to have the right amp with them.*



That statement about sum it up for HD800.


----------



## UntilThen

_


2359glenn said:



			Just bought some EL34s decided against the EL12spez.  Hard to get and a crazy socket will always be able to get replacement EL34s.
And I know the EL34 sounds good.
		
Click to expand...

_
Just tried the EL11 / EL12 spez yesterday in GOTL again. The sound is just so beautiful even in the OTL amp not configured for it. Best sound I've heard from any combo in the GOTL. Sounds very beautiful with Verite. So good that I know for sure I wanted it in a custom SET amp.

I wouldn't recommend anyone run these tubes in GOTL unless to try the tone but it's a pretty expensive exercise just to do that. Those adapters were about $60 each and they were custom made for me by Mrs Xuling last year.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes feeling pretty good at the moment and am trying to get many amps out as possible.  Still takes weeks to build one doing it for a couple of hours after work.



Just look after yourself. Don't over do it. I was sick with flu for more than a week already. Worst flu I've had.


----------



## mordy

Here is a question that I am sure can be answered by experienced forum members:
What happens when a tube dies?
 Is it a gradual process?
 Is it sudden?
 Is it explosive (arcing)?
Except for dropping a couple of tubes and having a couple lose their vacuum while lying around, I have not lost any tubes in use.
Sometimes a tube just doesn't turn on, after functioning, but that's it, in my experience.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 22, 2019)

I need another break from my 7802/6BX7 combo.  I love it, fast and dynamic, but I gotta fit my tube roll to the music.  That power combo has been great for my industrial techno / EBM phase I've been going through.  But now I am listening to Nils Frahm - _Spaces_, one of my favorite albums (minimalist neo-classical, piano works + some electronic influence), 180 degrees in the other direction.  I need something more chill, and that means Marconi-Osram Valve.

Probably posted this same setup before, but who cares because it sounds great.  I have to admit, I don't often reach for the MOV 6080WB (I prefer the Bendix from the 6080s), but the MOV L63 is one of those drivers that takes every power tube to the next level, and I think there is some manufacturer synergy at play.


----------



## UntilThen

K, that should sound real good. I have tried GEC B36 with a pair of GEC 6080. Simple but a very lovely refined sound. I have decided not to sell my power tubes. I will keep all of them with GOTL. Just too much hassle selling tubes. I don't need to.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 22, 2019)

mordy said:


> Here is a question that I am sure can be answered by experienced forum members:
> What happens when a tube dies?
> Is it a gradual process?
> Is it sudden?
> ...



I've only been in this hobby since 2015 and that's not long but I use my tube amps every day. Not a single tube has died on me through long hours of usage. They will outlive me. The power tubes I use the most are the 4 x Los Gatos and 2 x Fivre 6BX7gt. I will see how long that last. Probably forever.

I spend some time yesterday organising my tubes storage, putting them into new white boxes and labelling them and then putting the same tube types into separate big boxes. It will be easier for me to find my tubes now. I have a big box now just for all the EL tubes.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> I need another break from my 7802/6BX7 combo.  I love it, fast and dynamic, but I gotta fit my tube roll to the music.  That power combo has been great for my industrial techno / EBM phase I've been going through.


It's not so popular this side of the pond, but going through a huge resurgence in Europe right now. I Hate Models, Ancient Methods, Dax J, Remco Beekwilder but to name a few...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> K, that should sound real good. I have tried GEC B36 with a pair of GEC 6080. Simple but a very lovely refined sound. I have decided not to sell my power tubes. I will keep all of them with GOTL. Just too much hassle selling tubes. I don't need to.



Simple and refined is a good way of putting it, what better way to listen to minimalist music.  I have regretted selling rare tubes in the past.  My stance now is to only sell tubes I am absolutely certain I will never listen to again.

For instance, I have some nice ECC82 tubes, but I think I have found my favorite (Brimar CV4034) and I have backups, so the rest will be sold once I finish restoring and calibrating my Jackson 648-R.


----------



## UntilThen

Leftside, that video sounds wicked on my Verite with GOTL on a single Hitachi 6sn7gtb and 6 x 6bx7gt.


----------



## mordy

_"only sell tubes I am absolutely certain I will never listen to again."_
Well, this is the reason why I hold on to tubes (unless I have many spares). How can you know that there isn't going to come up a new combination that sounds terrific, using the tubes that have been collecting dust in your drawer?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 22, 2019)

leftside said:


> It's not so popular this side of the pond, but going through a huge resurgence in Europe right now. I Hate Models, Ancient Methods, Dax J, Remco Beekwilder but to name a few...




Well, so longs Nils, gotta listen to more techno.  I like that track, that music video is gonna give someone nightmares, I love it!

I've been listening to these guys a lot lately, Tzusing and Maened Veyl.  Almost a bender, I can't get enough.

If you drive through northeast Ohio and see a guy on a run with headphones on, bobbing his head, looking like he's on PCP, that's probably me and this is what I'm listening to.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> It's not so popular this side of the pond, but going through a huge resurgence in Europe right now. I Hate Models, Ancient Methods, Dax J, Remco Beekwilder but to name a few...


Thats good stuff. what genre is this considered?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 22, 2019)

mordy said:


> _"only sell tubes I am absolutely certain I will never listen to again."_
> Well, this is the reason why I hold on to tubes (unless I have many spares). How can you know that there isn't going to come up a new combination that sounds terrific, using the tubes that have been collecting dust in your drawer?



When I have two similar tubes, sometimes I know that I will almost always prefer one over the other.  My brain tends to put them in a hierarchy.  If the gap is large enough, the tube lower on the totem pole might go.  If it is too close, they both stay.

Like in my ECC82 example, I know with absolute certainty that I will always want to listen to the Brimar CV4034 over the Mullard CV4003, so I am going to sell the Mullards.  It's just how I am mordy, I can't help it!


----------



## UntilThen

K, those songs are raw and godzilla like. Powerful and stunning. When you say Nils, I thought you were referring to Nils Lofgren, which is more my type of music.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> K, those songs are raw and godzilla like. Powerful and stunning. When you say Nils, I thought you were referring to Nils Lofgren, which is more my type of music.




Ha!  Nils Frahm 

And now for something completely different!


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ha! Nils Frahm
> 
> And now for something completely different!



Ooooo this is really good. Change of tempo. Thanks !


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Thats good stuff. what genre is this considered?


Techno - but these newer guys like Dax J certainly seem to have their own style. I used to like techno in the early 90's in the UK clubs, but I think this newer style is better.

YouTube will bring up related artists/music, or for better quality Roon Radio + Tidal will do the same. The latter has already found another 3 Blues artists that I'd never heard before this morning. Maybe I'll switch over to a little techno this afternoon when I'm more awake...


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well, so longs Nils, gotta listen to more techno.  I like that track, that music video is gonna give someone nightmares, I love it!
> 
> I've been listening to these guys a lot lately, Tzusing and Maened Veyl.  Almost a bender, I can't get enough.
> 
> If you drive through northeast Ohio and see a guy on a run with headphones on, bobbing his head, looking like he's on PCP, that's probably me and this is what I'm listening to.


Ohio is meant to have a great and varied music scene. I'll have to schedule a trip sometime and visit an alternative/techno venue with you and a Blues venue with @whirlwind


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> I need another break from my 7802/6BX7 combo.  I love it, fast and dynamic, but I gotta fit my tube roll to the music.  That power combo has been great for my industrial techno / EBM phase I've been going through.  But now I am listening to Nils Frahm - _Spaces_, one of my favorite albums (minimalist neo-classical, piano works + some electronic influence), 180 degrees in the other direction.  I need something more chill, and that means Marconi-Osram Valve.
> 
> Probably posted this same setup before, but who cares because it sounds great.  I have to admit, I don't often reach for the MOV 6080WB (I prefer the Bendix from the 6080s), but the MOV L63 is one of those drivers that takes every power tube to the next level, and I think there is some manufacturer synergy at play.


 
I have the Nils Frahm “Spaces” on double LP and the LP’s had a coupon to D/L the lossless digital files.  

The difference in the Ambiance of the LP’s and the digital files is truly remarkable.  I vastly prefer the LP’s.  

LP as source is also the absolute Forte of the GOTL.  

Put these two together (the Nils Frahm “Spaces” on LP and the GOTL) and you will indeed be transported to audio heaven.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Ohio is meant to have a great and varied music scene. I'll have to schedule a trip sometime and visit an alternative/techno venue with you and a Blues venue with @whirlwind



Nice. If it's closer to me, I'd have join you guys.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> I have the Nils Frahm “Spaces” on double LP and the LP’s had a coupon to D/L the lossless digital files.
> 
> The difference in the Ambiance of the LP’s and the digital files is truly remarkable.  I vastly prefer the LP’s.
> 
> ...



Did someone say Nils Frahm double LP?


 

The Spaces pressing is excellent, all of the records I have bought from the Erased Tapes label have been.  Audio heaven indeed.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> The Spaces pressing is excellent



I'll likely be buying this double LP. Only buy music on vinyl for music that I really like.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I'll likely be buying this double LP. Only buy music on vinyl for music that I really like.



I am the exact same, only buy albums on vinyl that are very special to me.  Spaces is his best album IMO, a great addition I think!


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am the exact same, only buy albums on vinyl that are very special to me.  Spaces is his best album IMO, a great addition I think!



Quite similar to Endless River by Pink Floyd but Nils is much better here. Pink Floyd fans will be horrified I said that.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 22, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Did someone say Nils Frahm double LP?
> 
> 
> 
> The Spaces pressing is excellent, all of the records I have bought from the Erased Tapes label have been.  Audio heaven indeed.



Right-o!!

My copy came from “Vinyl Me Please” and was a special pressing in a limited run.   Also superb in quality.   Have some sampler stuff from Erased Tapes and plan to buy some other artists from them. 

I am so glad to see young folks getting in to this kind of music. 

Makes my heart soar 


.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Quite similar to Endless River by Pink Floyd but Nils is much better here. Pink Floyd fans will be horrified I said that.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 22, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Right-o!!
> 
> My cooy came from “Vinyl Me Please” and was a soecial pressing in a limited run.   Also superb in quality.   Have some sampler stuff from Erased Tapes and plan to buy some other artists from them.
> 
> ...



I have seen that pressing with the black jacket.  The collaborative works Nils Frahm did with Ólafur Arnalds are very good!  I am always trying to find a new sound, something novel that I have not heard before.  The only type of music I can say I truly do not enjoy at all is radio pop music.

A coworker and I were talking about music recently, she told me she liked Taylor Swift and asked what I was listening to.  I tried to explain Andy Stott to her, "it's experimental electronic music, dark ambient with some industrial influence..." I just got a blank stare, I pretty much try to avoid these conversations or I'll be labelled a "hipster".

Imagine me trying to explain a vacuum tube to someone.  "Do you know what a transistor is?" is my first question and how I know whether or not to go on.


----------



## UntilThen

If you're going to date your co-worker, you have to like her Taylor Swift music.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> If you're going to date your co-worker, you have to like her Taylor Swift music.



I got a girlfriend who's better than that, she has the smoke in her eyes 

No Taylor swift for her, only Talking Heads.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> I have the Nils Frahm “Spaces” on double LP and the LP’s had a coupon to D/L the lossless digital files.
> 
> The difference in the Ambiance of the LP’s and the digital files is truly remarkable.  I vastly prefer the LP’s.
> 
> ...


I'm listening to it now. It's not really my type of music, but I can tell it's been extremely well mastered/recorded. If you like this type of music, then I can totally understand why you'd really like this album. I'm going to give it another listen.


----------



## Sound Trooper (Sep 22, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Xf2's with the single  "O" getter are from 1973...the 1963 tubes have the doulble "O" getter.
> The latter xf3 and all xf4 tubes are supposedly not as good.


Yup, that's what I read also. Anyway I took a chance on them and at less than USD 60 /pair, which I reckon was pretty ok (if there is no noise)


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I must admit an EL34, KT66,EL37,KT77 amp with different transformers really get my attention....enough so that I may cancel my OTL and keep the OTL that I have and opt for something different...will have to discuss with Glenn.



I think you're on the right track.


----------



## Sound Trooper (Sep 22, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> I am still rocking the EL34 tubes in the GEL3N...pretty content.
> 
> I must admit an EL34, KT66,EL37,KT77 amp with different transformers really get my attention....enough so that I may cancel my OTL and keep the OTL that I have and opt for something different...will have to discuss with Glenn.
> EL34 sounds great getting only 250 volts to the plates.



If @whirlwind is happy about running the EL34 in the GEL3N, I am now more excited to listen to them in my amp.

I think I will keep using the EL3N as drivers for my new amp, I have quite a few pairs of them and they sound really good.


----------



## 2359glenn (Sep 22, 2019)

Sound Trooper said:


> If @whirlwind is happy about running the EL34 in the GEL3N, I am not more excited to listen to them in my amp.
> 
> I think I will keep using the EL3N as drivers for my new amp, I have quite a few pairs of them and they sound really good.



Good idea the EL3N makes a great sounding driver.
OR use GEC L63 great 6J5 tube.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Good idea the EL3N makes a great sounding driver.
> OR use GEC L63 great 6J5 tube.



Or try the EL33 - different pins but electrically similar to EL3N and EL11.


----------



## UntilThen

A big parcel arrives from Germany.


----------



## UntilThen

Boxes are very old but the tubes are amazingly new. Tight bases and perfect letterings. These will be my precious power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Testing out the new EL12 spez tubes as drivers in GOTL. Wow they are quiet and the tone is a killer. The punch and clarity. Think EL3N as drivers but with much greater clarity, air and micro details and a midrange to die for. I'm going to be so thrill with Berlin.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Boxes are very old but the tubes are amazingly new. Tight bases and perfect letterings. These will be my precious power tubes.


If I decoded the date codes correctly, all the tubes are from October, 1960
Day of manufacture from left to right: 10th, 6th, 15th and 22nd
Better than crossword puzzles......


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> If I decoded the date codes correctly, all the tubes are from October, 1960
> Day of manufacture from left to right: 10th, 6th, 15th and 22nd
> Better than crossword puzzles......



Perfect ! I could even have Berlin with quad EL12 spez as powers but I won't. 10 watts is sufficient and I need spares. That's why I have 3 pairs of NOS Telefunken EL12 spez and 1 pair of NOS Tesla EL12 spez.


----------



## UntilThen

Next I'll drop in an all Telefunken setup. Telefunken EL11 and quad Telefunken EL12 spez in GOTL. I have to get a preview of Berlin. Yesterday's test was a bit noisy, I think from the pair of Tesla EL12 spez.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok quad EL12 spez as powers in GOTL is just NOT suitable. Trust me on this. Staccato tad tad tad. However I have tested both new pairs of Telefunken EL12 spez as drivers with 6 x 6bx7gt in GOTL and it's the most beautiful tone in the world and the tubes are perfectly quiet.

Onward march to Berlin.


----------



## Velozity

JazzVinyl said:


> I have the Nils Frahm “Spaces” on double LP and the LP’s had a coupon to D/L the lossless digital files.
> 
> The difference in the Ambiance of the LP’s and the digital files is truly remarkable.  I vastly prefer the LP’s.
> 
> ...





L0rdGwyn said:


> Did someone say Nils Frahm double LP?
> 
> 
> 
> The Spaces pressing is excellent, all of the records I have bought from the Erased Tapes label have been.  Audio heaven indeed.








Oh I'm so glad there are more Erased Tapes fans here.  I too have "Spaces" and "All Melody" LPs and they are some of the cleanest vinyl I've ever played.  I did a 96/24 rip of both so that Nils can travel with me.  I prefer the music of "All Melody" over "Spaces" but I think the latter is a better pressing and is some of the highest quality music I own.  In fact it led me to buy other ET artists such as Olafur Arnaulds, Rival Consoles, Daniel Brandt, Michael Price, Penguin Cafe and others.  It really is a great label!


----------



## UntilThen

Velozity said:


> Oh I'm so glad there are more Erased Tapes fans here.  I too have "Spaces" and "All Melody" LPs and they are some of the cleanest vinyl I've ever played.  I did a 96/24 rip of both so that Nils can travel with me.  I prefer the music of "All Melody" over "Spaces" but I think the latter is a better pressing and is some of the highest quality music I own.  In fact it led me to buy other ET artists such as Olafur Arnaulds, Rival Consoles, Daniel Brandt, Michael Price, Penguin Cafe and others.  It really is a great label!



One of my greatest joy was using my turntable with GOTL. Here playing 'Dark Side of the Moon' on Rega Rp8 and GOTL had GEC B36 and the pair of GEC 6as7g which I sold to Monster later. Little did he know, the GEC 6as7g tubes have been tuned for Pink Floyd !


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Little did he know, the GEC 6as7g tubes have been tuned for Pink Floyd !


 Better than being tuned for Nickleback!


----------



## UntilThen

Here with a Tangerine Dream 'Out Of This World' album, you can see why I was so obsessed with GOTL. It has given me joy for coming up to 2 years ! Not even the arrival of the much more expensive Studio Six could make me put aside the GOTL. Just enjoying both as much.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Better than being tuned for Nickleback!



As long as it's not tuned for Taylor Swift or you'll want your money back !


----------



## Monsterzero

For those that have multiple brands of 6BX7s,which would you say has:
The best mids
Snappiest/punchiest sound

Go!


----------



## UntilThen

Here with Pink Floyd 'The Wall' and GOTL had GEC B36 with a pair of NOS Tung Sol 5998 straight from the military warehouse of the US forces in Saigon when they withdraw. This is the setup where I declared, 'IT CAN'T GET BETTER THAN THIS' !!!


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 23, 2019)

Speaking of Floyd,im currently listening to the Final Cut In The Wall,which is a great bootleg unofficial release. The VC is killing it.

https://archive.org/details/PinkFloydTheFinalCutInTheWall


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> For those that have multiple brands of 6BX7s,which would you say has:
> The best mids
> Snappiest/punchiest sound
> 
> Go!



I'm looking for 3 more Fivre 6bx7gt because I have only 3 now. So if you have 3 minty looking Fivres do sell it to me and save mankind.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Speaking of Floyd,im currently listening to the Final Cut In The Wall,which is a great bootleg unofficial release. The VC is killing it.
> 
> https://archive.org/details/PinkFloydTheFinalCutInTheWall



Wow thanks for this D. I'm a fan of bootleg now. Seriously this is good Floyd stuff.


----------



## UntilThen

@gibosi  is this a Sylvania? I am interested in buying 6.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Silvert...417577&hash=item28543f2abf:g:saIAAOSwOy1aplIN


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 23, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> For those that have multiple brands of 6BX7s,which would you say has:
> The best mids
> Snappiest/punchiest sound
> 
> Go!



I like the Fivre, Toshiba, and the side-getter RCA.  Not sure about punchiest, Toshiba have the most air/space, mids would be between Fivre and RCA for me...maybe I'll give em a listen today, see who has the punch.

I have a bunch of GEs that came from wazzupi, but I actually haven't listened to them yet, mostly because I know some of them are bad and I just haven't gotten around to troubleshooting a set.  I also have Tung-Sol and two different types of Sylvania 6BL7s, T-plate and flat-plate.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> @gibosi  is this a Sylvania? I am interested in buying 6.
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Silvert...417577&hash=item28543f2abf:g:saIAAOSwOy1aplIN



Yes it is. The construction strongly suggests that it is a Sylvania. And further, Sylvania's EIA code, 312, is printed on the base. The date code, 913, suggests that this tube was labeled and packed by Silvertone in 1959, week 13.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 23, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I like the Fivre, Toshiba, and the side-getter RCA.  Not sure about punchiest, Toshiba have the most air/space, mids would be between Fivre and RCA for me...maybe I'll give em a listen today, see who has the punch.
> 
> I have a bunch of GEs that came from wazzupi, but I actually haven't listened to them yet, mostly because I know some of them are bad and I just haven't gotten around to troubleshooting a set.  I also have Tung-Sol and two different types of Sylvania 6BL7s, T-plate and flat-plate.



@Monsterzero Toshiba are the most airy and are fastest to my ears.  Slightly brighter than the Fivre and RCA.  I think the Fivre have the best mids and body.  The RCAs though are great all-rounders, surprisingly similar to the Fivre and way more available.

Based on what I have heard you say about the VO, I think the Toshibas would be up your alley.  If you want them though, you gotta buy them from Japan.  Those Japanese auction-goers know these are good tubes, usually multiple bidders and a full set would cost you around $150 USD.  Maybe they are using them for guitar amps?  I don't know, but they are desirable.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Better than being tuned for Nickleback!


What's wrong with Nickleback? 



UntilThen said:


> As long as it's not tuned for Taylor Swift or you'll want your money back !


What's wrong with Taylor Swift?!?!


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Yes it is. The construction strongly suggests that it is a Sylvania. And further, Sylvania's EIA code, 312, is printed on the base. The date code, 913, suggests that this tube was labeled and packed by Silvertone in 1959, week 13.



Thanks Ken. They're pretty old tubes. Have never found out how old my other 6bx7 tubes are. I'll give Sylvania 6bx7gt a go. Never had Sylvania 6bx7gt before.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> What's wrong with Nickleback?
> 
> 
> What's wrong with Taylor Swift?!?!



Sorry I confused Taylor Swift with Nickleback...... and it's Nickelback. Meaning Monster wants his nickel back !

Wow I just learn this fact.
_*Nickelback* is releasing their latest album Feed The Machine on June 9, 2017. ... Any true rock fan knows that *Nickelback* is the *greatest* rock *band ever* formed. While the *bands* like the Beatles might be more widely liked, the only reason people consider them the *best* is that they've been around the longest._


----------



## UntilThen

Watch this really good.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 23, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Watch this really good.




Not where I expected to see George Costanza, looks like he must have had a career change, but great to see he has found true love and can also make a killer latte.

They will need to throw some Beatles memorabilia in Lake Erie to make room for Nickelback when they inevitably make it into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.


----------



## UntilThen

Forget about George Costanza. Let me introduce you to your next headphone / speaker amp.


----------



## attmci (Sep 23, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> @gibosi  is this a Sylvania? I am interested in buying 6.
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Silvert...417577&hash=item28543f2abf:g:saIAAOSwOy1aplIN


312, 312, 312 is the code. 

OK, Ken already answered. Just saw.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> 312, 312, 312 is the code.
> 
> OK, Ken already answered. Just saw.



Stop giving out my bank account number.


----------



## gibosi

For those who have some interest in tube rectifiers.....

A number of folks in this forum subscribe to the theory that rectifiers have no sound. They believe that any and all sonic changes resulting from rolling rectifiers is due to a change in voltage drop, which changes B+, which alters the operating points of the other tubes in the circuit. Again this is a theory. Some people believe it and others don't. And I have seen nothing in writing which attempts to prove or disprove this theory.

In the end, from my perspective, if a theory is useful and helps me understand the "sound" of rectifiers, it is a good theory. And if it doesn't fit reality as I experience it, it's a lousy theory and I dismiss it.

Fortunately, it is very easy to test this theory. All that is necessary is decent sized collection of rectifiers and a volt meter and it just so happens that I have both of these. A couple years ago, I measured the voltage drop of many of my rectifiers. And I think it is important to emphasize that these v-drop numbers were not lifted from datasheets. They were measured in my Glenn OTL and therefore, they are directly comparable to one another.

So looking over my list, I quickly see three rectifiers that have the exact same measured v-drop: a Mullard FW4-500, a British Tungsram FW4-500 and a Holland-made Philips AZ50. In each case the v-drop was 35 volts and B+ was 222 volts. According to theory, these rectifiers should sound identical. The operating points for all the other tubes in the amp are the same regardless of which rectifier is used.

However, they do not sound the same. They are not even similar. And I will thank you in advance if you do not insult me and assert that "you hear what you expect to hear. Much of this is mental." Again, they sound significantly different. Further, I find it very interesting that each of these rectifiers sound similar to double triodes manufactured by the same maker.

Taking this to the next step, rectifiers manufactured by Mullard all sound quite similar regardless of their measured voltage drop. And the same can be said for Telefunken, Valvo and other makers. My conclusion is the factory of origin, and not voltage drop, is a much more reliable indicator of a rectifier's sound.

To those who assert that no audio signal flows through a rectifier tube I would ask if you think 50 or 60 hertz is an audio signal? Yes indeed, an audio signal of 50 or 60 hertz is applied to the cathode of a rectifier and the output is a pulsating DC current with lots of upper harmonics. And while the power supply filters do a very good job of smoothing out the ripple and eliminating hum it would appear that enough of the upper harmonics pass through these filters to allow the rectifier's "sound" to be heard.

But hey, no one has to take my word for any of this. Anyone can gather a bunch of rectifiers, measure v-drop and test this theory. All I can say for sure is that the v-drop theory does nothing to help me understand the "sound" of rectifiers as I hear them. So I don't buy it...

Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

If I didn't venture into the use of tube rectifiers, I too would believe this theory that all a rectifier does is convert AC to DC...... BUT...... I have use GEC U52, Cossor 53ku and Mullard GZ34 in my Studio Six and I can tell you that the change in tone is more than what a voltage drop does. Sceptics should hear it for themselves before calling you mental. This is pure rudeness and I know who that is coming from. The same dude who goes around calling others noobs and boys.

So let it be known... I hear what you hear Ken. The difference in tone from a change of rectifiers is more than subtle. It's musical !


----------



## UntilThen

This thread used to be a friendly, courteous and polite thread. All it takes is one bad potato to spoil it.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I hope I am not a potato.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> @Monsterzero Toshiba are the most airy and are fastest to my ears.  Slightly brighter than the Fivre and RCA.  I think the Fivre have the best mids and body.  The RCAs though are great all-rounders, surprisingly similar to the Fivre and way more available.
> 
> Based on what I have heard you say about the VO, I think the Toshibas would be up your alley.  If you want them though, you gotta buy them from Japan.  Those Japanese auction-goers know these are good tubes, usually multiple bidders and a full set would cost you around $150 USD.  Maybe they are using them for guitar amps?  I don't know, but they are desirable.


Thanks for that. IIRC you had a resource for an online shop that was swimming in 6BX7s. Can you kindly repost that URL?

Too many 6BX7s are GE rebrands,and I know about the sandblasting thing,but frankly I cant tell them apart. I feel more comfortable buying from a trusted seller who can tell me for sure what brand of 6BX7s im getting.

I also suspect this seller wont have any Fivre or Toshibas laying around,but perhaps Sylvanias or other brands? I already have 6 GEs. 2 of which say RCA,and another says Tung Sol.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I hope I am not a potato.



I don't believe you are the one to call G mental, so you're not a potato.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I don't believe you are the one to call G mental, so you're not a potato.


 I feel like a potato. Does that count?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I don't believe you are the one to call G mental, so you're not a potato.



Well that's good.  I have enough existential crises to manage without having to worry about being a spud.  I have not seen anyone be that uncivilized, to gibosi or others, but maybe I was off tube rolling...



Monsterzero said:


> Thanks for that. IIRC you had a resource for an online shop that was swimming in 6BX7s. Can you kindly repost that URL?
> 
> Too many 6BX7s are GE rebrands,and I know about the sandblasting thing,but frankly I cant tell them apart. I feel more comfortable buying from a trusted seller who can tell me for sure what brand of 6BX7s im getting.
> 
> I also suspect this seller wont have any Fivre or Toshibas laying around,but perhaps Sylvanias or other brands? I already have 6 GEs. 2 of which say RCA,and another says Tung Sol.



The guy who has a ton of 6BX7s is Jim Cross at Vacuumtubes.net.  Just have to reach out to him.  I will PM you with more info on Toshibas.


----------



## UntilThen

One more post before I take a break from here for a long time.

This is the glue I found out yesterday that works really well with loose tube base. It's liquid and easily applied with no mess. Dries in seconds.


----------



## heliosphann

Zachik said:


> What's wrong with Taylor Swift?!?!



Nothing. Especially this:


----------



## heliosphann (Sep 23, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I hope I am not a potato.



Hopefully at least fried.



UntilThen said:


> One more post before I take a break from here for a long time.



Thank the Gods! My prayers have been answered.


----------



## rnros

gibosi said:


> For those who have some interest in tube rectifiers.....
> 
> A number of folks in this forum subscribe to the theory that rectifiers have no sound. They believe that any and all sonic changes resulting from rolling rectifiers is due to a change in voltage drop, which changes B+, which alters the operating points of the other tubes in the circuit. Again this is a theory. Some people believe it and others don't. And I have seen nothing in writing which attempts to prove or disprove this theory.
> 
> ...



Bravo @gibosi, first theoretical offering I've heard that comes closer to reality. At least the reality that some of us experience.
Have to applaud you for your clarity of thought and diligent work. 

Also for daring to go where few would go. LOL, I have heard stories that in darker times, people were burned alive in the public square for suggesting that the Earth orbited around the Sun, or the Earth was round, or rectifier tubes had their own unique sound. I know, hard to believe, but it's true. Well, maybe not for rectifier heresy, we know rectifier tubes did not exist at that time...
But in fact, and ironically, the people doing the burning were called 'The Rectifiers.'

The Scientific Method is alive and well, the inquiry is open and active, the Unified Rectifier Theory is within reach.

Seriously, gibosi, thanks. Well done. Appreciate this information and all the tube information you continuously contribute to the thread.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Monsterzero said:


> Wow man,sorry to hear about that. Hope it goes away eventually. I know my ears were ringing for over a week after I boldly stupidly ventured into the blast radius(front and center. So loud,it was devoid of people. Only time in my life I saw that) of a Motorhead show at the Hollywood Palladium. Eventually it went away. Hope you have the same fortune.



15 months now and counting I think.  My brain has gained some ability to tune it out when I'm focusing on a task, but if my thoughts slow down or the room is quiet that piercing high pitch shrieking noise is always there inside my head.  The worst part is it didn't have to happen.  I did something stupid and now I have to live with it.  I'd tell the whole story but to be honest I don't really want to.  I just get mad at myself remembering it all over again.


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Here is a question that I am sure can be answered by experienced forum members:
> What happens when a tube dies?
> Is it a gradual process?
> Is it sudden?
> ...



I'll chime in here since you didn't draw a lot of other responses.  Unless something is wrong (a short, or being run way harder than normal, or in the case of a rectifier being in a circuit that allows too much inrush current on startup) you should not have tubes die suddenly even at the end of their life.  They very slowly lose their emission strength over their lifespan until they drop below the values needed to operate within design spec.  In the case of amplifying tubes they just keep on working after this point as well, they just begin to sound worse and worse until you get the urge to pull it out and toss it.  If the bass sounds super flabby and loose and everything is just soft and out of focus then your tube is running on an empty tank.  This should be the end result 99% of the time over the course of thousands of hours of use.

FWIW I have been into tube amps for about 12 years now and I have yet to put enough hours on a tube to make it start sounding bad.  I suspect the Sylvania 6SN7GT chrome top I'm constantly using as a driver in the OTL might be the first, but right now she still sounds great.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I was in the mood for headphones last night so I crawled under the desk and unplugged the Luxman for a distortion free listening session with the Glenn 45 that turned out to be quite nice.  I don't tube roll anywhere near as often as most of you guys, but I decided to pop something different into the 45 last night.  I realized there were a few combinations I haven't tried with the Lorenz flat black C3g and the LCD-2s yet.  These Tung Sol ST 45s are interesting tubes as they're the only ones I own that exhibit the fluorescence effect that some old DHTs can have.  It makes them quite fun to look at.  I've never used these particular tubes much because the tone wasn't working for me, but this particular combination is interesting and quite nice.  Almost like it is vintage and modern hi-fi at the same time.  The Lorenz make the high end quite mellow and the Tung Sols have an audible midrange suckout, but somehow there is good clarity in spite of all of this and it results in absolutely ZERO sibilance or nasalness even with music that is problematic in those areas.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'll chime in here since you didn't draw a lot of other responses.  Unless something is wrong (a short, or being run way harder than normal, or in the case of a rectifier being in a circuit that allows too much inrush current on startup) you should not have tubes die suddenly even at the end of their life.  They very slowly lose their emission strength over their lifespan until they drop below the values needed to operate within design spec.  In the case of amplifying tubes they just keep on working after this point as well, they just begin to sound worse and worse until you get the urge to pull it out and toss it.  If the bass sounds super flabby and loose and everything is just soft and out of focus then your tube is running on an empty tank.  This should be the end result 99% of the time over the course of thousands of hours of use.
> 
> FWIW I have been into tube amps for about 12 years now and I have yet to put enough hours on a tube to make it start sounding bad.  I suspect the Sylvania 6SN7GT chrome top I'm constantly using as a driver in the OTL might be the first, but right now she still sounds great.





Xcalibur255 said:


> I'll chime in here since you didn't draw a lot of other responses.  Unless something is wrong (a short, or being run way harder than normal, or in the case of a rectifier being in a circuit that allows too much inrush current on startup) you should not have tubes die suddenly even at the end of their life.  They very slowly lose their emission strength over their lifespan until they drop below the values needed to operate within design spec.  In the case of amplifying tubes they just keep on working after this point as well, they just begin to sound worse and worse until you get the urge to pull it out and toss it.  If the bass sounds super flabby and loose and everything is just soft and out of focus then your tube is running on an empty tank.  This should be the end result 99% of the time over the course of thousands of hours of use.
> 
> FWIW I have been into tube amps for about 12 years now and I have yet to put enough hours on a tube to make it start sounding bad.  I suspect the Sylvania 6SN7GT chrome top I'm constantly using as a driver in the OTL might be the first, but right now she still sounds great.


HiX255, 
Thanks for your thoughtful response. The person who asked the question on another thread mentioned that this is a question that has not received much attention.
The obvious answer is that tubes in general are very reliable and long lasting and that it isn't much of a problem.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Fun fact:  Tung Sol 45 tubes from this era have the same oval style mica support as the the coveted black glass round plate 6SN7GT.  Figuring out who made 45s is often quite a challenge as there was a large degree of re-branding even amongst manufacturers that were known to make their own.  I've found the top mica supports to be the most reliable way to tell who the real maker was for 45 tubes.


----------



## mordy

ATM I am listening on the Glenn OTL to a combination of tubes that so far is to me the best sounding to date. Some of the tubes are hard to find but I am sure that there others that may sound similar - I just happened to have these tubes which I acquired in various lots at low prices, and in experimenting with different setups I stumbled on this combination that is spectacular sounding.
What enthralls me is, in addition to the musicality, a special energy in the bass and the treble that brings out tremendous detail. We speak about instrument separation - how you can clearly identify each instrument in the recording. This combination has something extra: detail separation lol. 
What do I mean? Let's say the audience applauds at the end of a performance. Instead of hearing a roar of applause, you hear hundreds of hands clapping, if you understand what I mean..... 
Tons of micro details are right there - you can concentrate on something in the background and clearly hear it.
Then there is quickness and dynamics - this combination breathes life into the music.
Some people will raise an eyebrow - mixing tubes and running 12.4A worth of tubes. But with my fan on the amp runs very cool and does not even get hot, staying under 40C. (Room temp with AC 23C)
Have been running it like this for extended hours for several days.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> ATM I am listening on the Glenn OTL to a combination of tubes that so far is to me the best sounding to date. Some of the tubes are hard to find but I am sure that there others that may sound similar - I just happened to have these tubes which I acquired in various lots at low prices, and in experimenting with different setups I stumbled on this combination that is spectacular sounding.
> What enthralls me is, in addition to the musicality, a special energy in the bass and the treble that brings out tremendous detail. We speak about instrument separation - how you can clearly identify each instrument in the recording. This combination has something extra: detail separation lol.
> What do I mean? Let's say the audience applauds at the end of a performance. Instead of hearing a roar of applause, you hear hundreds of hands clapping, if you understand what I mean.....
> Tons of micro details are right there - you can concentrate on something in the background and clearly hear it.
> ...


 So,for those of us who cannot ID a tube merely by glancing at your photo,what tube roll are you using?


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Forget about George Costanza. Let me introduce you to your next headphone / speaker amp.



I think my upcoming *Glenn 6EL3N* is better!   <mic drop>
(BTW, I think that will be its final name)


----------



## attmci




----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> So,for those of us who cannot ID a tube merely by glancing at your photo,what tube roll are you using?


Front to back:
1x6SN7WGT National Union
2xEL11 Tubular Telefunken, Deyan adapters EL11 to C3g
2x6080 RCA
2X6080WB Graphite Plates Raytheon
All tubes in socket savers/adapters


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Front to back:
> 1x6SN7WGT National Union
> 2xEL11 Tubular Telefunken, Deyan adapters EL11 to C3g
> 2x6080 RCA
> ...



Yeah I gotta get me some EL11s...after I buy my server,and after I buy my GEC KT66s for my DAC. God my wallet hates this hobby!


----------



## JKDJedi

I have two General Electric 6BL7GTA (1959) and an adapter (two to one) that I'd like to give away or at least get any offers for, I've just had a fiasco of problems getting the right adapter for my Darkvoice amp  (from China, from Bulgaria...nothing works    ) and  am throwing in the towel on this project/experiment, please take this thing away from me! I'm sure the adapter was wired for a parallel wired amp as it does not work well on mine (In series wired) PM me


----------



## 2359glenn

Well I got the two Telefunken  MH4 tubes today and kind of upset.
The box was to pristine it was a new reproduction box.
The tube is perfect old tube but it has nothing on it no writing at all not even the tube number.
How do I know if it is really a Telefunken?  on the bottom of the base both tubes have a number 2 and under it is FL.
Does anyone know what these letters mean?


----------



## 2359glenn

JKDJedi said:


> I have two General Electric 6BL7GTA (1959) and an adapter (two to one) that I'd like to give away or at least get any offers for, I've just had a fiasco of problems getting the right adapter for my Darkvoice amp  (from China, from Bulgaria...nothing works    ) and  am throwing in the towel on this project/experiment, please take this thing away from me! I'm sure the adapter was wired for a parallel wired amp as it does not work well on mine (In series wired) PM me



Does the amp work with the 6AS7 tube in it??


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Well I got the two Telefunken  MH4 tubes today and kind of upset.
> The box was to pristine it was a new reproduction box.
> The tube is perfect old tube but it has nothing on it no writing at all not even the tube number.
> How do I know if it is really a Telefunken?  on the bottom of the base both tubes have a number 2 and under it is FL.
> Does anyone know what these letters mean?



I have no idea what the number 2 might mean. But according to this website, the lower case date code, fl = 9/62. 

http://www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm


----------



## JKDJedi

2359glenn said:


> Does the amp work with the 6AS7 tube in it??


With just one tube yes, and with both yes, just was expecting the output to get somewhat louder or comparable to one 6as7g tube, jot the case with the dual setup.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 23, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Well I got the two Telefunken  MH4 tubes today and kind of upset.
> The box was to pristine it was a new reproduction box.
> The tube is perfect old tube but it has nothing on it no writing at all not even the tube number.
> How do I know if it is really a Telefunken?  on the bottom of the base both tubes have a number 2 and under it is FL.
> Does anyone know what these letters mean?



Glenn, was doing some digging on this.  I think they are made by Philips in Eindhoven, Holland.  Here is one that looks identical, it is an E424, which was a Philips tube, a REN904 equivalent.  Same code on the bottom 2 FL.  I don't think they are Telefunkens, looks like that seller had some bad info...

Still gorgeous tubes though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E4...Audio-Tube-Valve-Rohre-Amplifier/253958550653


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 23, 2019)

JKDJedi said:


> I have two General Electric 6BL7GTA (1959) and an adapter (two to one) that I'd like to give away or at least get any offers for, I've just had a fiasco of problems getting the right adapter for my Darkvoice amp  (from China, from Bulgaria...nothing works    ) and  am throwing in the towel on this project/experiment, please take this thing away from me! I'm sure the adapter was wired for a parallel wired amp as it does not work well on mine (In series wired) PM me



That adapter was undoubtedly made by @Deyan , he might be able to help you out or get you a working replacement.



JKDJedi said:


> With just one tube yes, and with both yes, just was expecting the output to get somewhat louder or comparable to one 6as7g tube, jot the case with the dual setup.



Edit: oh I see, the adapter works but you were hoping for more gain.  The Darkvoice is a cathode follower, so the output tubes are wired for unity gain, meaning any output tube will essentially have no gain, doesn't matter which one you use, won't get louder.


----------



## JKDJedi (Sep 23, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> That adapter was undoubtedly made by @Deyan , he might be able to help you out or get you a working replacement.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: oh I see, the adapter works but you were hoping for more gain.  The Darkvoice is a cathode follower, so the output tubes are wired for unity gain, meaning any output tube will essentially have no gain, doesn't matter which one you use, won't get louder.


Output tube is the 6as7g? And because of the design of the Darkvoice even if I had 8 tubes with adapter the gain will be the same, interesting.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JKDJedi said:


> Output tube is the 6as7g? And because of the design of the Darkvoice even if I had 8 tubes with adapter the gain will be the same, interesting.



Yes, the output is the 6AS7G.  It is a consequence of the circuit topology.  If you Google "cathode follower unity gain" you can read about it.


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Nothing. Especially this:




I had gone for less than a day and Taylor Swift has taken over the thread.


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Thank the Gods! My prayers have been answered.



Prayers not required. Glad that is what you're looking for. Don't apply too much or it'll overflow. It will hold. It's super glue for glass.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Bravo @gibosi, first theoretical offering I've heard that comes closer to reality. At least the reality that some of us experience.
> Have to applaud you for your clarity of thought and diligent work.
> 
> Also for daring to go where few would go. LOL, I have heard stories that in darker times, people were burned alive in the public square for suggesting that the Earth orbited around the Sun, or the Earth was round, or rectifier tubes had their own unique sound. I know, hard to believe, but it's true. Well, maybe not for rectifier heresy, we know rectifier tubes did not exist at that time...
> ...



You've a sense of humour Ros but us rectifier users are practising an art in the end times where it's dark. So we need rectifiers to light the way.

I also would like to thank gibosi for work well done. Head-fi is better off with him. He shared with me a document he wrote on 4 volt rectifiers of the different type and class. That is a fantastic contribution. Thanks again Ken.


----------



## UntilThen

Martens, designer of ALO Audio Studio Six on tube rectification: _“I do realize that yes, most often the first impulse of many (most?) Electrical engineers upon seeing a tube rectifier in use is to say:_ _‘Hey, why don’t you just use some good fast diodes in there and a timed soft-start circuit? You can get rid of that big, hot and wasteful tube rectifier!’_ _Well… the virtue of a properly implemented tube rectifier also makes itself known in the resulting sound of the amp.”_


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> I think my upcoming *Glenn 6EL3N* is better!   <mic drop>
> (BTW, I think that will be its final name)



Mate you have my blessing to call your amp that. This reminds me of 'Six Bladed Knives' by Dire Straits, a nice song.


----------



## UntilThen

JKDJedi said:


> I have two General Electric 6BL7GTA (1959) and an adapter (two to one) that I'd like to give away or at least get any offers for, I've just had a fiasco of problems getting the right adapter for my Darkvoice amp  (from China, from Bulgaria...nothing works    ) and  am throwing in the towel on this project/experiment, please take this thing away from me! I'm sure the adapter was wired for a parallel wired amp as it does not work well on mine (In series wired) PM me



My first tube amp is a Darkvoice 336se. One day while talking in the Darkvoice 336se tube rolling thread, someone pop in suddenly and said, 'Darkvoice 336se is the bane of my life. It's the start of my tube amps addiction that ultimately led me to the EC 445'. 

For best result in the DV 336se, use a Tung Sol 5998 in the power slot but that will cost almost as much as the amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glenn, was doing some digging on this.  I think they are made by Philips in Eindhoven, Holland.  Here is one that looks identical, it is an E424, which was a Philips tube, a REN904 equivalent.  Same code on the bottom 2 FL.  I don't think they are Telefunkens, looks like that seller had some bad info...
> 
> Still gorgeous tubes though.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E4...Audio-Tube-Valve-Rohre-Amplifier/253958550653



Thanks for the info.
I got screwed as usual when I buy expensive tubes.
This guy is selling fakes by putting them in reproduced Telefunken boxes.
I am sure they are good tubes but not what I thought I was buying.

One thing interesting about this tube is they have a built in capacitor between the plate and cathode.
Probably to stop oscillations,  It is made of two plates lined up with each other one attached to the plate and one attached to the cathode interesting.


----------



## whirlwind

Deyan's adapters have arrived.  Thank you sir for the fast service.

The adapters will stay on the tubes now.


 

My Osram KT53 have two different constructions...I will be on the lookout for another that looks like this.
 


Glenn, if you are not happy with the tubes maybe you can get a refund


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Thanks for the info.
> I got screwed as usual when I buy expensive tubes.
> This guy is selling fakes by putting them in reproduced Telefunken boxes.
> I am sure they are good tubes but not what I thought I was buying.
> ...



Will you keep them, Glenn?  Could maybe ask for a partial refund since they were not as advertised.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Thanks for the info.
> I got screwed as usual when I buy expensive tubes.
> This guy is selling fakes by putting them in reproduced Telefunken boxes.
> I am sure they are good tubes but not what I thought I was buying.
> ...



Wouldn't a capacitor that old be problematic?


----------



## JKDJedi

UntilThen said:


> My first tube amp is a Darkvoice 336se. One day while talking in the Darkvoice 336se tube rolling thread, someone pop in suddenly and said, 'Darkvoice 336se is the bane of my life. It's the start of my tube amps addiction that ultimately led me to the EC 445'.
> 
> For best result in the DV 336se, use a Tung Sol 5998 in the power slot but that will cost almost as much as the amp.[/QU





UntilThen said:


> My first tube amp is a Darkvoice 336se. One day while talking in the Darkvoice 336se tube rolling thread, someone pop in suddenly and said, 'Darkvoice 336se is the bane of my life. It's the start of my tube amps addiction that ultimately led me to the EC 445'.
> 
> For best result in the DV 336se, use a Tung Sol 5998 in the power slot but that will cost almost as much as the amp.


Have a couple 6080, couple 7236, and a 421a, think I'm good..  maybe just grab a Glenn amp?


----------



## UntilThen

After using the Loctite super glue for glass on a pair of Telefunken EL11 with bases that are starting to come a bit loose, I left them aside for a day. Then I examine the tubes again and the base is extremely firm now. It will not dislodge again, not until you smash it with a hammer. I was very careful with my application of the glue so it looks perfect with no overflow.

I then tested the tubes to make sure the glue is ok with a heated tube. Been using the pair of Telefunken EL11 and 6 x 6 bx7gt for 3 hours since last night. Glue is holding up and base is firm as ever.

Telefunken EL11 with 6bx7s hits the sweet spot for me. Incredible sounding with Verite plus Verite flat pads. I also brought my 2 x RCA 6as7g, 2 x RCA 6080, Mullard 6080 and 4 x Svetlana 6h13c from Sydney on the last trip. It's been a while since I use those power tubes. Might give them a spin again sometime.


----------



## UntilThen

JKDJedi said:


> Have a couple 6080, couple 7236, and a 421a, think I'm good..  maybe just grab a Glenn amp?



You should be definitely very good with those other power tubes. Keep the pair of 6BL7s. You will need it when you get your Glenn Super 9 or 10 OTL amp. 

As someone who have travelled that road before, my advice to you is to bypass La Figaro 339, Elise, Euforia, Woo Audio Wa2 or even Woo Audio Wa22 and go straight for a Glenn Super 9 or 10. There will be quite a wait for the GOTL but I can assure you, it's worth the wait.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 24, 2019)

JKDJedi said:


> maybe just grab a Glenn amp?



Yeah you can't just grab a Glenn amp unless someone wants to sell theirs and even then it will be sold very quickly. So you need to PM Glenn and tell him you want an OTL amp that has provision for 6 sockets for 6BL7 or 6BX7. Your only other consideration is whether you want it with tube rectification or a hidden solid state (hexfred) rectification. It's a hard choice. Both very good and you'll have an amp that is literally end game.

Glenn is not going to like me for promoting the GOTL so much but I will tell it how I hear it and I've heard the GOTL against many very good tube amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Wouldn't a capacitor that old be problematic?



No it is just a vacuum between two plates.


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Wouldn't a capacitor that old be problematic?



No not this one will last forever all it is is 2 plates facing each other separated by a vacuum.


----------



## 2359glenn

Well went to the post office after work and shipped Ken Ji's amp.
They say he will get it in 3 to 5 days.


----------



## rnros

Zachik said:


> I think my upcoming *Glenn 6EL3N* is better!   <mic drop>
> (BTW, I think that will be its final name)



I like it. Tells you _exactly_ what it is. 
Which makes a lot of sense when there is a lot of ongoing discussion about the various amps.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Well went to the post office after work and shipped Ken Ji's amp.
> They say he will get it in 3 to 5 days.



You hear that @UsoppNoKami . Now I need you to tell me how the HE1000SE or HEKSE perform with GOTL. I already know Verite is a dream with it. Gosh with your stash of good tubes ready, you'll have a blast with it. Better take a week off work.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> Mate you have my blessing to call your amp that. This reminds me of 'Six Bladed Knives' by Dire Straits, a nice song.



Zachie, this song is for your Glenn 6EL3N. I discovered Dire Straits much later in life but it stuck with me from then on. This recording is very good even for Youtube.


----------



## UntilThen

Another favourite.


----------



## leftside

I went to see Mark Knopfler last week. He played a few Dire Straits songs. Great show.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I went to see Mark Knopfler last week. He played a few Dire Straits songs. Great show.



I didn't know he's still performing. Man I would have love to see his live performance.


----------



## UntilThen

He will be performing at Madison Square Garden on 25th Sept. https://www1.ticketmaster.com/event/3B0056A895A21354

He will be playing this song I think.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 24, 2019)

Finally got my Jackson 648-R up and running.  Whooooo!  This became a bigger project than I had anticipated.  Here is what I did:

-cleaned inside and out
-cleaned all contacts with IPA and Deoxit
-cleaned all of the tube sockets with IPA
-replaced all resistors (this wasn't necessary, but they now have tighter tolerances)
-replaced the 0.1uF capacitor for the shorts test
-added a 250uF capacitor across the meter to reduce AC ripple
-cleaned out all of the pots and variable resistors
-used a plastic polish to remove scratches from the meter cover
-fixed the cog in the roll chart so it rolls smoothly
-replaced screws and polished others that would be difficult to replace
-replaced the two large knobs that were worn down, found someone selling some spares on eBay
-calibrated with a variac and my DMM

I have some tubes from Stavros that were tested on his Jackson 648, the values on my tester agree with his within 1-2%, so pretty good calibration I think.

Still need to work on getting the rust off the hinges, they'll never look good, but hey they will give it that vintage look


----------



## lukeap69

JKDJedi said:


> Have a couple 6080, couple 7236, and a 421a, think I'm good..  maybe just grab a Glenn amp?


There is one on the FS forum right now although it is a package deal with bunch of tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> There is one on the FS forum right now although it is a package deal with bunch of tubes.



Oh....


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Oh....


It seems to have the same configuration as your Ulysses, am I right?


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> It seems to have the same configuration as your Ulysses, am I right?



Exactly the same. I remember very vividly @Phantaminum spoke to me about my GOTL before he ordered. 

It’s a great amp !!!


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Exactly the same. I remember very vividly @Phantaminum spoke to me about my GOTL before he ordered.
> 
> It’s a great amp !!!


It is indeed! The would be new owner will be extremely happy.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

2359glenn said:


> Well went to the post office after work and shipped Ken Ji's amp.
> They say he will get it in 3 to 5 days.





UntilThen said:


> You hear that @UsoppNoKami . Now I need you to tell me how the HE1000SE or HEKSE perform with GOTL. I already know Verite is a dream with it. Gosh with your stash of good tubes ready, you'll have a blast with it. Better take a week off work.



Time to spring clean the audio rack and make space for the incoming GOTL 

Glenn has been a top bloke the entire time from the very first time I contacted him, very happy to see and hear his creation.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Time to spring clean the audio rack and make space for the incoming GOTL
> 
> Glenn has been a top bloke the entire time from the very first time I contacted him, very happy to see and hear his creation.



Yup get everything ready including your uber tubes. Wonder which of your exotic tubes you will roll first.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 24, 2019)

Right now I am listening to tubes while reading about tubes while testing tubes.

I think I have reached a new plane of existence.  Or addiction, cannot be certain which.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Time to spring clean the audio rack and make space for the incoming GOTL
> 
> Glenn has been a top bloke the entire time from the very first time I contacted him, very happy to see and hear his creation.



I could not agree more about Glenn being a top bloke. From the day back in Oct 2017 when we first started talking about my GOTL till the present, he has been humble, kind, considerate and a great tube amp builder, who knows how to make those amps sound real good.


----------



## UntilThen

That's enough excitement for one day. From talking on Phantom's for sale GOTL thread, to the Verite thread and here, I'm exhausted.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I think I have reached a new plane of existence. Or addiction, cannot be certain which.



Wait till you get your next SET amp. It will be a transcendental experience.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> Yup get everything ready including your uber tubes. Wonder which of your exotic tubes you will roll first.



I'll make the choice for you. 

Put on a pair of Siemens c3g with a pair of Western Union 421A in there and strapped on your Verite Pheasantwood LTD.


----------



## UntilThen

It suddenly dawn on me that I'm still using el-cheapo K-Mart RCA cables between Yggdrasil and Studio Six and GOTL. I know it's sad but not too late !

Just bought one pair of Curious RCA 1m and two pairs of Chord Clearway RCA 1m. Hopefully there's some SQ improvement. If not at least there's more bling.


----------



## DecentLevi

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'll chime in here since you didn't draw a lot of other responses.  Unless something is wrong (a short, or being run way harder than normal, or in the case of a rectifier being in a circuit that allows too much inrush current on startup) you should not have tubes die suddenly even at the end of their life.  They very slowly lose their emission strength over their lifespan until they drop below the values needed to operate within design spec.  In the case of amplifying tubes they just keep on working after this point as well, they just begin to sound worse and worse until you get the urge to pull it out and toss it.  If the bass sounds super flabby and loose and everything is just soft and out of focus then your tube is running on an empty tank.  This should be the end result 99% of the time over the course of thousands of hours of use.
> 
> FWIW I have been into tube amps for about 12 years now and I have yet to put enough hours on a tube to make it start sounding bad.  I suspect the Sylvania 6SN7GT chrome top I'm constantly using as a driver in the OTL might be the first, but right now she still sounds great.


Well guys, you just made me even more of a believer in tubes. Bravo to the positive responses RE the passing of a tube. I guess it was just the 1-2 horror stories I read about arcing tubes such as the one from JV, but I guess those are more often caused by wiring issues such as faulty adapter or inrush on startup. If a tube is dying it will usually go slowly and quiet and there are warning signs to heed such as rustling sound, faint glow and perhaps loud hum. Very reassuring.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 25, 2019)

Lovin' the electronic vibe here as of late. Myself being one of the most avid junkies of the scene, could NOT help but post some stuff here. I have very eclectic tastes, ascribing to the doctrine that electronic music is a blank canvas with infinite possibilities.

Here is one of my all time favorite DJ sets, Underground DJ Jesse You from Seoul Korea, spinning  retro electro, tribal and all kinds of retro Asian synthpop - on vinyl. I had the pleasure of meeting this guy in Seoul, but for some reason the crowd later in Dhaka Bangladesh weren't down for this set that I played before DJ'ing at a wedding there.


A couple more noble mentions:
electro / breakbeats


IDM / acid jazz / breakcore


techno / tribal house / jungle


Fans of the scene are HIGHLY encouraged to subscribe to the Underground techno / electro thread here on Head-Fi. I've contributed there for years and this is more of what I've been into lately; a bit more jazz infused:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/techno-electro-underground-beats.727918/page-254#post-15205669


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Well guys, you just made me even more of a believer in tubes. Bravo to the positive responses RE the passing of a tube. I guess it was just the 1-2 horror stories I read about arcing tubes such as the one from JV, but I guess those are more often caused by wiring issues such as faulty adapter or inrush on startup. If a tube is dying it will usually go slowly and quiet and there are warning signs to heed such as rustling sound, faint glow and perhaps loud hum. Very reassuring.



If a tube is going to arc over it usually happens when new or you first use it.


----------



## OctavianH

UntilThen said:


> It suddenly dawn on me that I'm still using el-cheapo K-Mart RCA cables between Yggdrasil and Studio Six and GOTL. I know it's sad but not too late !
> 
> Just bought one pair of Curious RCA 1m and two pairs of Chord Clearway RCA 1m. Hopefully there's some SQ improvement. If not at least there's more bling.



Those Clearway were decent, but after I discovered DH Labs Air Matrix there was no turning back


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> Those Clearway were decent, but after I discovered DH Labs Air Matrix there was no turning back



Yeah I know I'm el-cheapo when it comes to cables. I paid only $180 for the 2 x 1m pairs from someone who has upgraded. So that's a fraction of the Studio Six cost.


----------



## Deyan

Ok as of today the 2 EL34/6V6 to C3g adapters are being given away. The first one to claim them in the thread can have them.



 

 

Top sockets are gold plated.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok Deyan I'll have it.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> Ok Deyan I'll have it.



Change of mind. Let others have it. Too many tubes for me to use. I'm fatigued from experimenting. Thanks though.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Zachie, this song is for your Glenn 6EL3N. I discovered Dire Straits much later in life but it stuck with me from then on. This recording is very good even for Youtube.





I wish they would have stayed together and made more albums.
Every single one of them is good.....Mark's solo stuff is good as well


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I wish they would have stayed together and made more albums.
> Every single one of them is good.....Mark's solo stuff is good as well



I have all of Dire Straits albums on brand new vinyl. On a good system, I can feel goosebumps on "Brothers In Arms". Knopfler is drawling rather than singing but that adds to the ambience of the battle field.


----------



## Deyan

UntilThen said:


> Change of mind. Let others have it. Too many tubes for me to use. I'm fatigued from experimenting. Thanks though.



Ok. Anyone else


----------



## UntilThen

Change of tempo. I just love this song. I can imagine that I'm the driver of that car.


----------



## OctavianH

UntilThen said:


> Yeah I know I'm el-cheapo when it comes to cables. I paid only $180 for the 2 x 1m pairs from someone who has upgraded. So that's a fraction of the Studio Six cost.



Air Matrix is the most flexible interconnect I have used, and the sound improvements were over my expectations compared to Clearway.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> Air Matrix is the most flexible interconnect I have used, and the sound improvements were over my expectations compared to Clearway.



Ok the question is how much for the Air Matrix?


----------



## OctavianH

UntilThen said:


> Ok the question is how much for the Air Matrix?



I paid around 220 EUR for a pair of 1m. So double than for the Clearway.


----------



## UntilThen

Today I made a shocking discovery. When I replace the K-Mart rca cables with a Audioquest Golden Gate rca cables, I hear so much more !!! That started me on the cables upgrade rabbit hole.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> I paid around 220 EUR for a pair of 1m. So double than for the Clearway.



Ok that's still not too bad but at least let me try the Chord Clearway first. It hasn't even arrived.  After all it won What HiFi 2018 budget cable award.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 25, 2019)

When I bought Yggdrasil and Ragnarok, the salesman told me the Nordost Blue Heaven is the minimum I should go with a pair of xlr interconnect. I insisted that he gave me the cheap Schiit xlr interconnect for $50 a pair. 

This Nordost Blue Heaven cost $800 plus.....  then he showed me the Cardas interconnect and that's when I said my parking ticket time is up !!!


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 25, 2019)

This Cardas Clear RCA Interconnect cost $2499 !!! Now you know why I remain on K-Mart rca cables. 

This pair of cables cost nearly as much as Ragnarok !!!


----------



## UntilThen

I've just seen the Air Matrix. It looks very well made with good materials.
https://silversonic.com/products/interconnects/air-matrix/


----------



## OctavianH

When I bought Air Matrix I was using Clearway for several months from Chord Qutest to Elise and I wasn't pleased about the high frequencies extension. In other words, I had the feeling that the cable was somehow muffled. I called a guy here who distributes several audio brands and he told me that I should try the Air Matrix. For me it is important also that the cable is flexible because other "white weapons" are not so easy to use in my space limited environment. Air Matrix is a warm cable, but it has an incredible synergy with Elise and T1. I am not sure if it sounds so good on other amps or with other headphones, but for me it beated much more expensive cables and it remained there. I am not saying that you should buy it, I just say this is an incredible interconnect for my system. Bass was deeper, high frequencies were not rolled off, there was a lot of detail and synergy... but as I said, other amp and other headphones and other ears. I would be curious to know if anyone else here tried it.


----------



## attmci

OctavianH said:


> When I bought Air Matrix I was using Clearway for several months from Chord Qutest to Elise and I wasn't pleased about the high frequencies extension. In other words, I had the feeling that the cable was somehow muffled. I called a guy here who distributes several audio brands and he told me that I should try the Air Matrix. For me it is important also that the cable is flexible because other "white weapons" are not so easy to use in my space limited environment. Air Matrix is a warm cable, but it has an incredible synergy with Elise and T1. I am not sure if it sounds so good on other amps or with other headphones, but for me it beated much more expensive cables and it remained there. I am not saying that you should buy it, I just say this is an incredible interconnect for my system. Bass was deeper, high frequencies were not rolled off, there was a lot of detail and synergy... but as I said, other amp and other headphones and other ears. I would be curious to know if anyone else here tried it.



I hope the deeper base and smoother treble from the cable can be measured by this person.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sound-science-of-dac.915665/#post-15208101


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I hope the deeper base and smoother treble from the cable can be measured by this person.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sound-science-of-dac.915665/#post-15208101



Hahaha, attmci don't infect us with sound science here. Here we go by ears. We don't measure...


----------



## OctavianH

I know the debate about cables, I do not want to start about it here. As you all know this is a never ending war. There are a lot of factors, different systems and electrical isolation and so on. I will stick to "for me it is a hearable difference". I let that guy measure it or not


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> When I bought Air Matrix I was using Clearway for several months from Chord Qutest to Elise and I wasn't pleased about the high frequencies extension. In other words, I had the feeling that the cable was somehow muffled. I called a guy here who distributes several audio brands and he told me that I should try the Air Matrix. For me it is important also that the cable is flexible because other "white weapons" are not so easy to use in my space limited environment. Air Matrix is a warm cable, but it has an incredible synergy with Elise and T1. I am not sure if it sounds so good on other amps or with other headphones, but for me it beated much more expensive cables and it remained there. I am not saying that you should buy it, I just say this is an incredible interconnect for my system. Bass was deeper, high frequencies were not rolled off, there was a lot of detail and synergy... but as I said, other amp and other headphones and other ears. I would be curious to know if anyone else here tried it.



Well I'm at the stage where I feel I should get some decent cables and power cords without breaking the bank. In a good HiFi system, you can spend a lot more on cables, especially speaker cables.


----------



## UntilThen

Next thing that is important is quality music files. I'm quite happy with 16/44 which is Tidal HiFi quality or redbook. I don't need more than that. So CD ripped as flac and play back by JRiver 24 or Audirvana 3 is good enough for me. All through Yggdrasil.


----------



## UntilThen

So do we know who the buyer of Phantom's GOTL is?


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> So do we know who the buyer of Phantom's GOTL is?



I confess.  I have been looking for an OTL upgrade (from the humble WA3) and was in the right place at the right time.  More importantly, I had just been reading the words of a wise forum member who said:



UntilThen said:


> As someone who have travelled that road before, my advice to you is to bypass La Figaro 339, Elise, Euforia, Woo Audio Wa2 or even Woo Audio Wa22 and go straight for a Glenn Super 9 or 10. There will be quite a wait for the GOTL but I can assure you, it's worth the wait.



The only part I missed was about the wait, which I actually feel bad about.  I told Phantaminum that he should probably hold the GOTL for several months so I can get a more authentic Glenn experience


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 25, 2019)

GDuss said:


> I confess.  I have been looking for an OTL upgrade (from the humble WA3) and was in the right place at the right time.  More importantly, I had just been reading the words of a wise forum member who said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only part I missed was about the wait, which I actually feel bad about.  I told Phantaminum that he should probably hold the GOTL for several months so I can get a more authentic Glenn experience



Don't feel bad, after you hear the GOTL, you will want a custom amp from Glenn anyway, so an authentic experience awaits you!

How many GOTL's do you think there are in the world now, @2359glenn ?


----------



## Phantaminum

GDuss said:


> I confess.  I have been looking for an OTL upgrade (from the humble WA3) and was in the right place at the right time.  More importantly, I had just been reading the words of a wise forum member who said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only part I missed was about the wait, which I actually feel bad about.  I told Phantaminum that he should probably hold the GOTL for several months so I can get a more authentic Glenn experience



Glad you dropped by!

Can’t wait to get it to you so you can hear it. Especially with the Aeolus.

You won’t find a better group of helpful people here that will also enable a tube addiction.


----------



## UntilThen

@GDuss , I don't know what to say. What I said was to @JKDJedi . Little did I realise it was to a much wider audience. Glad you were here at the right time and seeing your post count, you've pretty much kept to yourself. 

Congrats and welcome to Glenn Studios thread. This is now your home and you'll find many audio enthusiasts just like yourself. Everyone is learning, passionate about this hobby. Too passionate maybe.  They are also very friendly and helpful. So stay and participate. Your interest will flourish when you've a group to interact with.

What I said, I said with full conviction though. Of all the amps there (of which I've owned many of them), Glenn Super 9 or 10 OTL amp is leagues ahead of the others. Of course, owners of the other amps will disagree with me but that's ok. When have I felt the need to get others approval?  That does not mean I don't respect their opinions but this is my assessment and I make no apology for it.

What you've bought there with all those tubes will be a light bulb moment on first listen, especially coming from the Woo Audio WA3. Enjoy. Beautiful music awaits you.

Cheers
UT


----------



## GDuss

Phantaminum said:


> Glad you dropped by!
> 
> Can’t wait to get it to you so you can hear it. Especially with the Aeolus.
> 
> You won’t find a better group of helpful people here that will also enable a tube addiction.



Thanks.  I'm looking forward to meeting up with you to pick it up.  And of course to getting to know the GOTL.

As an aside to the rest of the group, I bought the Gilmore Lite (in my signature) from Phantaminum about a year ago or so.  He and I met up in person to do the sale and had a great discussion.  As I'm sure all of you already know, he's a fantastic person.  So when I saw his sales post, it was too perfect to pass up.


----------



## UntilThen

He sure is. I've always enjoyed my interactions with Phantam. He's very keen on experimenting with higher end gear and I felt I have met someone with similar interests as myself. Very unpretentious, no flowery words, very good assessment of what he hears. Hence I've always enjoyed talking to him whether in this open thread or in private message.

You couldn't have bought from a nicer seller.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> @GDuss , I don't know what to say. What I said was to @JKDJedi . Little did I realise it was to a much wider audience. Glad you were here at the right time and seeing your post count, you've pretty much kept to yourself.
> 
> Congrats and welcome to Glenn Studios thread. This is now your home and you'll find many audio enthusiasts just like yourself. Everyone is learning, passionate about this hobby. Too passionate maybe.  They are also very friendly and helpful. So stay and participate. Your interest will flourish when you've a group to interact with.
> 
> ...



You are too kind, thank you for the welcome and I look forward to getting to know you, as well as the rest of this group.  It's great to be here.

I have read many of your comments, admittedly not all 13K of them, and it is clear that you as well as many others here are passionate about this hobby.  There are many things I am also passionate about (my job is a professor/researcher, it's part of the gig).  Music has always been one of those things.  Espresso is another; they don't call it "obsesso" for nothing.  Then there is whisky/whiskey.  I digress.  Back in graduate school, I spent way above my budget on a 2-channel system (Jolida tube amp and CD player, Totem speakers; not super high end, but for a graduate student it was).  That got sold off over time and more recently I've been starting back up, this time with headphones.  I've tried to keep myself under control, but you know how that turns out. 

Hopefully it's a compliment that your words went beyond their intended recipient.  It should be.


----------



## UntilThen

One of the first pictures I took of GOTL. I had ZMF Eikon then. Ragnarok was still around. It was 2 weeks before Christmas of 2017. How quickly has time passed.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

GDuss said:


> You are too kind, thank you for the welcome and I look forward to getting to know you, as well as the rest of this group.  It's great to be here.
> 
> I have read many of your comments, admittedly not all 13K of them, and it is clear that you as well as many others here are passionate about this hobby.  There are many things I am also passionate about (my job is a professor/researcher, it's part of the gig).  Music has always been one of those things.  Espresso is another; they don't call it "obsesso" for nothing.  Then there is whisky/whiskey.  I digress.  Back in graduate school, I spent way above my budget on a 2-channel system (Jolida tube amp and CD player, Totem speakers; not super high end, but for a graduate student it was).  That got sold off over time and more recently I've been starting back up, this time with headphones.  I've tried to keep myself under control, but you know how that turns out.
> 
> Hopefully it's a compliment that your words went beyond their intended recipient.  It should be.



Out of curiosity and if you do not mind sharing, what field do you teach / research in?


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> You are too kind, thank you for the welcome and I look forward to getting to know you, as well as the rest of this group.  It's great to be here.
> 
> I have read many of your comments, admittedly not all 13K of them, and it is clear that you as well as many others here are passionate about this hobby.  There are many things I am also passionate about (my job is a professor/researcher, it's part of the gig).  Music has always been one of those things.  Espresso is another; they don't call it "obsesso" for nothing.  Then there is whisky/whiskey.  I digress.  Back in graduate school, I spent way above my budget on a 2-channel system (Jolida tube amp and CD player, Totem speakers; not super high end, but for a graduate student it was).  That got sold off over time and more recently I've been starting back up, this time with headphones.  I've tried to keep myself under control, but you know how that turns out.
> 
> Hopefully it's a compliment that your words went beyond their intended recipient.  It should be.



Certainly nice to meet you GDuss. It's not often we get a professor/researcher in our midst. We have astronauts, brokers, lawyers, money launderers and the list goes on....  If I have to re-read all my comments again, I will fall really ill. So there's no re-wind for me. 

I'm an IT Consultant by profession and I know next to nothing about electronics. We can talk music, expresso or whiskey and of course tube rolling, headphone rolling, cables rolling, dac rolling, the list goes on... all in the name of getting the music just right for our ears.

Sure I take that as a compliment and thanks for your very generous words. I'm humbled indeed.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> Out of curiosity and if you do not mind sharing, what field do you teach / research in?



Neuroscience and pharmacology.  There are other professors/researchers around here.  Not sure if they are in this forum though.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

GDuss said:


> Neuroscience and pharmacology.  There are other professors/researchers around here.  Not sure if they are in this forum though.



Very cool!  I am in the healthcare field myself, I can appreciate the importance of a well-taught pharmacology course.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Neuroscience and pharmacology.  There are other professors/researchers around here.  Not sure if they are in this forum though.



That's closer to home than I thought possible because someone whom I love dearly is a medical doctor.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Certainly nice to meet you GDuss. It's not often we get a professor/researcher in our midst. We have astronauts, brokers, lawyers, money launderers and the list goes on....  If I have to re-read all my comments again, I will fall really ill. So there's no re-wind for me.
> 
> I'm an IT Consultant by profession and I know next to nothing about electronics. We can talk music, expresso or whiskey and of course tube rolling, headphone rolling, cables rolling, dac rolling, the list goes on... all in the name of getting the music just right for our ears.
> 
> Sure I take that as a compliment and thanks for your very generous words. I'm humbled indeed.



Cheers to good music, and the reproduction of it.  Too early for whisky, so maybe an espresso shot is in order.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> Very cool!  I am in the healthcare field myself, I can appreciate the importance of a well-taught pharmacology course.



In fairness, you should probably ask my students how well taught they are!!!  They may have a different opinion than I do.

I'm always glad to meet others in related fields within healthcare.  It's as much fun to talk about as amps/tubes etc.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Cheers to good music, and the reproduction of it.  Too early for whisky, so maybe an espresso shot is in order.



Well I have to catch up with you tomorrow. It's getting rather late here in Australia and it's bedtime for me as it's a work day tomorrow. You'll always find someone here to talk about music whether good or bad, rap or classical. 

Cheers - good night.
UT


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> That's closer to home than I thought possible because someone whom I love dearly is a medical doctor.



My hat's off to your loved one.  I never claim to be smart enough to treat patients.  That's serious business.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> My hat's off to your loved one.  I never claim to be smart enough to treat patients.  That's serious business.



Thanks. That's my son and I love him more than all of my music gear. I think that's an understatement.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 25, 2019)

Never you mind.


----------



## leftside

Deyan said:


> Ok as of today the 2 EL34/6V6 to C3g adapters are being given away. The first one to claim them in the thread can have them.
> 
> Top sockets are gold plated.


Surely someone must have grabbed these by now? If not, then I'll take them.



GDuss said:


> Cheers to good music, and the reproduction of it.  Too early for whisky, so maybe an espresso shot is in order.


Both go well together  I've owned a bunch of those IEMs and DACs you have. All great gear.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Well I'm at the stage where I feel I should get some decent cables and power cords without breaking the bank. In a good HiFi system, you can spend a lot more on cables, especially speaker cables.



Ive always felt that cables and power should be the last step in the hobby. I installed a PS Audio Dectet power conditioner into my system and it made a massive difference over the crappy conditioner I had prior.

My RCAs and USB cables are not entry level,but far from high end. I will upgrade them when funds permit.



UntilThen said:


> Next thing that is important is quality music files. I'm quite happy with 16/44 which is Tidal HiFi quality or redbook. I don't need more than that. So CD ripped as flac and play back by JRiver 24 or Audirvana 3 is good enough for me. All through Yggdrasil.


 If you end up getting the Lampizator TRP and VC,you will def notice a difference between redbook and 24 bit. 



GDuss said:


> Thanks.  I'm looking forward to meeting up with you to pick it up.  And of course to getting to know the GOTL.
> 
> As an aside to the rest of the group, I bought the Gilmore Lite (in my signature) from Phantaminum about a year ago or so.  He and I met up in person to do the sale and had a great discussion.  As I'm sure all of you already know, he's a fantastic person.  So when I saw his sales post, it was too perfect to pass up.


 Welcome to the club.
Youre going to notice a massive improvement going from the GLM2 to the GOTL. Enjoy.


----------



## Deyan

leftside said:


> Surely someone must have grabbed these by now? If not, then I'll take them.
> 
> 
> Both go well together  I've owned a bunch of those IEMs and DACs you have. All great gear.



Well... not in the form they are now but with a bit of modification they are going to Italy.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 25, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Today I made a shocking discovery. When I replace the K-Mart rca cables with a Audioquest Golden Gate rca cables, I hear so much more !!! That started me on the cables upgrade rabbit hole.



What I have found over the years is that the right cables, and by right I don't necessarily mean super expensive, bring more authentic tone and timbre.  This is why they shouldn't be ignored.

Wait until you try an aftermarket power cord and hear the difference with those too.  I was legitimately angry when I could hear an improvement from that.  I wanted to believe really badly that, of all things, that simply would make no difference.  This, and the clearly audible difference between different digital interfaces (likely due to clock jitter) were big eye openers after believing for years that these parts of the setup did not need to be fussed over.

edit:  wow I can't form comprehendible sentences today.....  edited for clarity.


----------



## GDuss

leftside said:


> Both go well together  I've owned a bunch of those IEMs and DACs you have. All great gear.



It is interesting to see how your perception of music changes before and after a bit of whisky (or wine/beer for that matter).  Sometimes it's minimal, but sometimes it's not.  Likely has to do with stress levels etc and whether or not the alcohol is relaxing muscles, not to mention relaxing all those pathways downstream of your ears.

My current collection of gear has served me well in the time that I have had it.  Looking forward to what's ahead.


----------



## mordy

Even without any drinks my amp sounds different to me different days. Sometimes it doesn't sound really good, and sometimes really great.
Psychological? Stress? I did notice that it sounds better many times late at night or on weekends - maybe less electrical interference/power grid etc etc? Just don't know.....


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Even without any drinks my amp sounds different to me different days. Sometimes it doesn't sound really good, and sometimes really great.
> Psychological? Stress? I did notice that it sounds better many times late at night or on weekends - maybe less electrical interference/power grid etc etc? Just don't know.....



It happens. On certain days my ears are golden, everything sounds crisp, clear, and beautiful. Other days I sit down and the pressure on my ear makes music sound muffled. It’s “eh” when before a great combination was doing everything right. Just really strange how the body adjusts and reacts.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Even without any drinks my amp sounds different to me different days. Sometimes it doesn't sound really good, and sometimes really great.
> Psychological? Stress? I did notice that it sounds better many times late at night or on weekends - maybe less electrical interference/power grid etc etc? Just don't know.....


 Im venturing to guess its electricity.
I used to have the exact same problem. Upgraded power cables,dropped in the Dectet conditioner,and during the recent mancave remodel I had my electrician put in dedicated line just for my audio gear.

The fluctuations are gone.


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> Welcome to the club.
> Youre going to notice a massive improvement going from the GLM2 to the GOTL. Enjoy.



Thanks.  Sometimes the key to happiness with things like this is keeping expectations low, and then being surprised when they are exceeded.  I saw a post somewhere around this forum where there was an attempted translation between descriptions people use and reality e.g. "night and day difference" really means like 10% change etc.  But in the case of going from GLM2 to GOTL, massive improvement is likely to be an appropriate phrase.


----------



## GDuss

Phantaminum said:


> It happens. On certain days my ears are golden, everything sounds crisp, clear, and beautiful. Other days I sit down and the pressure on my ear makes music sound muffled. It’s “eh” when before a great combination was doing everything right. Just really strange how the body adjusts and reacts.



And on some days, Laphroaig 10 is the greatest thing I have ever tasted.  Other days, it just doesn't work.


----------



## Monsterzero

GDuss said:


> Thanks.  Sometimes the key to happiness with things like this is keeping expectations low, and then being surprised when they are exceeded.  I saw a post somewhere around this forum where there was an attempted translation between descriptions people use and reality e.g. "night and day difference" really means like 10% change etc.  But in the case of going from GLM2 to GOTL, massive improvement is likely to be an appropriate phrase.


 Typically OTL amps are best used for high ohm dynamic headphones,so after I got my GOTL I picked up a GLM2 for my AD2000s and K701s.
Glenn suggested I try 6336 tubes for low ohm and planars. The difference between the GOTL w/6336 tubes and the GLM2 was night and day(sorry,couldnt resist.)for those headphones. The GLM2 sounded sterile and soulless by comparison. Sold off the Gilmore quite quickly.


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> Typically OTL amps are best used for high ohm dynamic headphones,so after I got my GOTL I picked up a GLM2 for my AD2000s and K701s.
> Glenn suggested I try 6336 tubes for low ohm and planars. The difference between the GOTL w/6336 tubes and the GLM2 was night and day(sorry,couldnt resist.)for those headphones. The GLM2 sounded sterile and soulless by comparison. Sold off the Gilmore quite quickly.



Well the GLM2 may end up on the sales forum soon.  I'm guessing you won't be surprised if it does.


----------



## Monsterzero

GDuss said:


> Well the GLM2 may end up on the sales forum soon.  I'm guessing you won't be surprised if it does.


 You may want to keep it around for the AFO and Audeze. Dunno. Never tried the AFO or AFC on the Glenn. 
For your upcoming ZMF and HD650,there is zero comparison....oh and might as well sell your HD650s as well. The Aeolus has a similar signature to it,and once you have that,your 650s will be relegated to dust collecting duty.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> You may want to keep it around for the AFO and Audeze. Dunno. Never tried the AFO or AFC on the Glenn.
> For your upcoming ZMF and HD650,there is zero comparison....oh and might as well sell your HD650s as well. The Aeolus has a similar signature to it,and once you have that,your 650s will be relegated to dust collecting duty.



Sorry MZ, lol. Keep the HD650. It helps to plug it in the amp and verify that any new tube purchased won’t blow your Aeolus or other high priced headphones. That’s what I’ve been using with the GOTL. If it blows they can be found cheaply in the forum.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Sorry MZ, lol. Keep the HD650. It helps to plug it in the amp and verify that any new tube purchased won’t blow your Aeolus or other high priced headphones. That’s what I’ve been using with the GOTL. If it blows they can be found cheaply in the forum.


 Yeah,fair point. My K340s are my sacrificial tube testers.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 25, 2019)

Gosh, so much disrespect for the HD650.  I still love it 

I use $20 Koss headphones to test suspicious tubes.


----------



## GDuss

Sure would be interesting to see how people's headphones that qualify as "sacrificial tube testers" change over time, and with their subsequent purchases.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Ive always felt that cables and power should be the last step in the hobby. I installed a PS Audio Dectet power conditioner into my system and it made a massive difference over the crappy conditioner I had prior.
> 
> My RCAs and USB cables are not entry level,but far from high end. I will upgrade them when funds permit.
> 
> If you end up getting the Lampizator TRP and VC,you will def notice a difference between redbook and 24 bit.



Woke up to a flourish of interesting posts. As usual, it's good to participate in this thread.

I agree with you too on cables and power conditioner being the last step in the hobby. Hence I'm just getting started on that now. Not sure if I needed to upgrade beyond Yggdrasil because I've been so happy with it's performance so far. Lampizator TRP does look interesting though, so is the Terminator. I think Mike Moffat has created in the Yggdrasil a dac that can stand head and shoulders with the best of them at a reasonable price. Well until I get a chance to hear the other dac - also the Chord Dave. Again don't know if I want to go that far....

As for VC, it's a wait and see situation. Verite Open and HD800 is sufficient for my needs at the moment. I've always been careful not to rush in this hobby. Like a good wine, I will drink it slowly and not to bottoms up with it.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> And on some days, Laphroaig 10 is the greatest thing I have ever tasted.  Other days, it just doesn't work.


Oban 14


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> Sure would be interesting to see how people's headphones that qualify as "sacrificial tube testers" change over time, and with their subsequent purchases.


To me "sacrificial headphones" are those that cost less than $20. And can withstand pops that would knock out fancy Beryllium drivers. I use a pair of Sennheiser 201 that cost around $14 open box Amazon.
My impression is that most people who are into headphone listening alternate between several pairs. When something new and better comes along, the one(s) getting the least use gets sold.....


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 25, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Lampizator TRP does look interesting though, so is the Terminator.


 I encourage you to do your research if and when you decide to go for a different DAC. If you recall, The Termy was my #1 DAC priority,until I spoke to a person who used to be a dealer for both Denafrips and Lampizator.

I wont go into details here,but he,and Leftside convinced me to go for the Lampizat0r.

I should also mention that the Amber 3 apparently is a fantastic sounding DAC,according to Bunny,Wildcats and Hansotek. I believe @L0rdGwyn and @Zachik are going to be reviewing it as well. Its not cheap,but doesnt hit the wallet as hard as the TRP.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> What I have found over the years is that the right cables, and by right I don't necessarily mean super expensive, bring more authentic tone and timbre.  This is why they shouldn't be ignored.
> 
> Wait until you try an aftermarket power cord and hear the difference with those too.  I was legitimately angry when I could hear an improvement from that.  I wanted to believe really badly that, of all things, that simply would make no difference.  This, and the clearly audible difference between different digital interfaces (likely due to clock jitter) were big eye openers after believing for years that these parts of the setup did not need to be fussed over.
> 
> edit:  wow I can't form comprehendible sentences today.....  edited for clarity.



Thanks for your response. I did buy an after market cable for my Redgum Rgi120enr. It's the Isotek power cable. Not very expensive. Whether I hear a difference or not, I haven't verified but at least it looks better than the PC power cord that came with the unit. 
https://www.audiotrends.com.au/isot...deSQEQx-l3mKwxhorUQ01sClzy22-XcUaAtclEALw_wcB

However you're right. I will upgrade from all of my PC power cord to at least those Isotek power cords.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Oban 14



Dear god that looks tasty. It’s time for me to make a whiskey run.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Well the GLM2 may end up on the sales forum soon.  I'm guessing you won't be surprised if it does.



I'm not surprised at all. I sold my Ragnarok 4 months after Glenn OTL amp came to my home.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Gosh, so much disrespect for the HD650.  I still love it
> 
> I use $20 Koss headphones to test suspicious tubes.



I kind of feel guilty now. I gave away my modified HD650 to my friend who came to buy my Burson Audio Play. Those 2 units go very together, with the Play a Sabre ES9018 dac / amp. The HD650 has been sitting there unused for nearly 2 years. It was my 2nd headphone purchase in this hobby 3 years ago. The first is a Beyer DT880 250 ohms. In those days those headphones were high end to me. They are still pretty good even by today's standard. Then of course I bought a Beyer T1 and was all over it for more than a year, until the arrival of HD800, followed by Eikon and Atticus.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Sure would be interesting to see how people's headphones that qualify as "sacrificial tube testers" change over time, and with their subsequent purchases.



Haha how true. Now my sacrificial headphone is the HD800.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Dear god that looks tasty. It’s time for me to make a whiskey run.



I bought this from Japan in 2010 on a holiday there and have not opened it. I think I bought it as decorative item. 

The Samurai whisky that is... not the Ostrich egg.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I encourage you to do your research if and when you decide to go for a different DAC. If you recall, The Termy was my #1 DAC priority,until I spoke to a person who used to be a dealer for both Denafrips and Lampizator.
> 
> I wont go into details here,but he,and Leftside convinced me to go for the Lampizat0r.
> 
> I should also mention that the Amber 3 apparently is a fantastic sounding DAC,according to Bunny,Wildcats and Hansotek. I believe @L0rdGwyn and @Zachik are going to be reviewing it as well. Its not cheap,but doesnt hit the wallet as hard as the TRP.



Someday maybe.. after Berlin, I have travel plans to fulfil for the wife. A trip to Germany in 2021 to visit my brother in law and the old Telefunken factory site.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 25, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I kind of feel guilty now. I gave away my modified HD650 to my friend who came to buy my Burson Audio Play. Those 2 units go very together, with the Play a Sabre ES9018 dac / amp. The HD650 has been sitting there unused for nearly 2 years. It was my 2nd headphone purchase in this hobby 3 years ago. The first is a Beyer DT880 250 ohms. In those days those headphones were high end to me. They are still pretty good even by today's standard. Then of course I bought a Beyer T1 and was all over it for more than a year, until the arrival of HD800, followed by Eikon and Atticus.



I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I prefer the HD650 to the HD800.  The HD800 never did it for me, technically impressive, but I didn't find it musical, so I sold it.

The HD650 gets better and better with upstream improvements.  Sounds great on the GOTL, really holds up well against more expensive headphones, IMO.

Right now I am listening to the GE 6BX7 for the very first time, believe it or not.  Only the Sylvania left.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I prefer the HD650 to the HD800.  The HD800 never did it for me, technically impressive, but I didn't find it musical, so I sold it.
> 
> The HD650 gets better and better with upstream improvements.  Sounds great on the GOTL, really holds up well against more expensive headphones, IMO.



You're not the minority here. Sometimes I feel those who like the HD800 are in the minority group. HD800 with the right tube amp becomes a different animal, not just by my own reckoning but also elsewhere in Head-fi, certainly some in DNA Stratus thread. There are also some Stratus owners who prefers HD650 over HD800. It's where I see personal preference comes in and that's perfectly ok.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> I bought this from Japan in 2010 on a holiday there and have not opened it. I think I bought it as decorative item.
> 
> The Samurai whisky that is... not the Ostrich egg.



I have to say that my favorite type of whiskey is Japanese whiskey (very complex) followed by Irish Whiskey that has a pete moss taste. 

That’s a pretty awesome looking bottle.


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 25, 2019)

The unthinkable is happening.

Im going to give folks in this thread first crack at this.

Im selling my Ltd. Auteur Bocote. Zach says its the most beautiful Auteur he's ever made.
Retail for $1900.00. I will let it go for 1500.00 1400.00. Less than 200 hours on it. If nobody from this thread wants it,it will go up in the classifieds. #Glennstudiosislikefamily


----------



## whirlwind

GDuss said:


> I confess.  I have been looking for an OTL upgrade (from the humble WA3) and was in the right place at the right time.  More importantly, I had just been reading the words of a wise forum member who said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only part I missed was about the wait, which I actually feel bad about.  I told Phantaminum that he should probably hold the GOTL for several months so I can get a more authentic Glenn experience





GDuss said:


> I confess.  I have been looking for an OTL upgrade (from the humble WA3) and was in the right place at the right time.  More importantly, I had just been reading the words of a wise forum member who said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on your purchase....enjoy the ride


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> The unthinkable is happening.
> 
> Im going to give folks in this thread first crack at this.
> 
> ...



Oh no!  Making room for VC?


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I have to say that my favorite type of whiskey is Japanese whiskey (very complex) followed by Irish Whiskey that has a pete moss taste.
> 
> That’s a pretty awesome looking bottle.



I bought this on a holiday to Taiwan last year for my son.


----------



## UntilThen

Beautiful Auteur Bocote, Monster !

I will not be tempted.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Oh no!  Making room for VC?


 I know I sound like a broken record,but the VC does everything so right. The Auteur has been my go to metal headphone,but the VC has conquered it.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Beautiful Auteur Bocote, Monster !
> 
> I will not be tempted.



I was gonna say, M should be your guy 



Monsterzero said:


> I know I sound like a broken record,but the VC does everything so right. The Auteur has been my go to metal headphone,but the VC has conquered it.



Well you've gotten my attention.  I'll know for sure next Saturday, but as of right now, I am planning to get a VC myself early next year.  But what wood?!  I'll have to consult the master himself.  I love the look of ziricote.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Zachi, this song is for your Glenn 6EL3N. I discovered Dire Straits much later in life but it stuck with me from then on. This recording is very good even for Youtube.





whirlwind said:


> I wish they would have stayed together and made more albums.
> Every single one of them is good.....Mark's solo stuff is good as well





UntilThen said:


> I have all of Dire Straits albums on brand new vinyl. On a good system, I can feel goosebumps on "Brothers In Arms". Knopfler is drawling rather than singing but that adds to the ambience of the battle field.



Dire Straits has been the very first rock band I called "my favorite". I have discovered them when I was in high school.  Love them since, but sadly - never been to a concert of theirs. I will be the first to buy tickets if they go on a tour again...
I did go to several of Mark Knopfler's solo concerts, and loved it when he played several songs from the Dire Straits portfolio! 
...and "Brothers in Arms" is one of my all time tracks!  Listened to the whole 7+ minutes of it on the Sennheiser HE-1 during one of the CanJams! All I can say is: WOW!!


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> To me "sacrificial headphones" are those that cost less than $20. And can withstand pops that would knock out fancy Beryllium drivers. *I use a pair of Sennheiser 201* that cost around $14 open box Amazon.


Haha - me too!! They're perfect for that


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> Im selling my Ltd. Auteur Bocote. Zach says its the most beautiful Auteur he's ever made.
> Retail for $1900.00. I will let it go for 1500.00. Less than 200 hours on it. If nobody from this thread wants it,it will go up in the classifieds. #Glennstudiosislikefamily



Just make sure whoever gets them only has headphones that are well below this level.  Don't let these turn into someone's sacrificial tube testers


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> I should also mention that the Amber 3 apparently is a fantastic sounding DAC,according to Bunny,Wildcats and Hansotek. I believe @L0rdGwyn and @Zachik are going to be reviewing it as well. Its not cheap,but doesnt hit the wallet as hard as the TRP.


Monster - any idea if the tour has started?


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Ive always felt that cables and power should be the last step in the hobby. I installed a PS Audio Dectet power conditioner into my system and it made a massive difference over the crappy conditioner I had prior.


I have bought a Dectet, too, but did not have a chance to introduce to my system.  I am going to have a big tear-down / re-build of my audio setup, so figured I would replace my basic surge-protection extension cord with the Dectet then!



Xcalibur255 said:


> Wait until you try an aftermarket power cord and hear the difference with those too. I was legitimately angry when I could hear an improvement from that. I wanted to believe really badly that, of all things, that simply would make no difference. This, and the clearly audible difference between different digital interfaces (likely due to clock jitter) were big eye openers after believing for years that these parts of the setup did not need to be fussed over.


*Any recommendations? (preferably nothing crazy expensive since I need several...)*  I am currently using the basic black power cords that come for free with the components (or Amazon / Monoprice El-Cheapo power cords)... Good opportunity to do this power cords overhaul as part of the re-build of my setup!



Monsterzero said:


> I used to have the exact same problem. Upgraded power cables,dropped in the Dectet conditioner,and during the recent mancave remodel I had my electrician put in dedicated line just for my audio gear.


Which power cables did you go for?


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I was gonna say, M should be your guy
> 
> 
> 
> Well you've gotten my attention.  I'll know for sure next Saturday, but as of right now, I am planning to get a VC myself early next year.  But what wood?!  I'll have to consult the master himself.  I love the look of ziricote.



Theres always a mad rush on the Ltd. woods. I would venture to guess that the MonkeyPod might arrive on your doorstep quicker than any Ltd. wood. FWIW,I have the MonkeyPod version here.



GDuss said:


> Just make sure whoever gets them only has headphones that are well below this level.  Don't let these turn into someone's sacrificial tube testers



If someone uses the auteur as a tube tester,they have more dollars than sense.



Zachik said:


> Monster - any idea if the tour has started?



The original loaner departed from @Hansotek not long ago. That unit has been sold. @Gopher mentioned he was going to send out a tube rectifier version for you and @L0rdGwyn. Perhaps @Gopher can chime in,or perhaps drop him a PM to check the status of the situation.



Zachik said:


> I have bought a Dectet, too, but did not have a chance to introduce to my system.  I am going to have a big tear-down / re-build of my audio setup, so figured I would replace my basic surge-protection extension cord with the Dectet then!
> 
> 
> *Any recommendations? (preferably nothing crazy expensive since I need several...)*  I am currently using the basic black power cords that come for free with the components (or Amazon / Monoprice El-Cheapo power cords)... Good opportunity to do this power cords overhaul as part of the re-build of my setup!
> ...


 Nothing crazy. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V75KB06/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

At some point I will opt for higher end cables,but too many other things ahead of it at this point. I can clearly hear a more physical bass response with these cables in place.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Nothing crazy.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V75KB06/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


OK - those are the *exact *power cords I was eyeing already!  You have just reaffirmed my choice 
You did mention the Dectet had an audible improvement. Did you hear additional improvement from the power cords as well?  Or did you replace power cords and power conditioner at the same time, and therefore the improvement was done by the "combo"?


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> OK - those are the *exact *power cords I was eyeing already!  You have just reaffirmed my choice
> You did mention the Dectet had an audible improvement. Did you hear additional improvement from the power cords as well?  Or did you replace power cords and power conditioner at the same time, and therefore the improvement was done by the "combo"?


 I was saving my nickles for my Auteur when my system developed a nasty noise that I could not diagnose after multiple tear downs. I purchased the Dectet,5 power cables,5 RCA cables and a iFiUSB 3.0 micro all at the same time. It was the most dull way to drop that much cash in this hobby imaginable,but with noise in my system,I was unable to enjoy any headphone,so it took priority.

Which upgrade had the most impact,I cannot tell you unfortunately.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I was gonna say, M should be your guy
> 
> 
> 
> Well you've gotten my attention.  I'll know for sure next Saturday, but as of right now, I am planning to get a VC myself early next year.  But what wood?!  I'll have to consult the master himself.  I love the look of ziricote.



M is my name so I am not surprised that I’m my own guy. 

For wood, you need the Australian Redgum.


----------



## UntilThen

Why did I bring up rca interconnects, power.filtration, power cord. Now I’ll be out of pocket even more. I should have listen to Jason of Sciit Audio and just use the supplied PC power cord.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Theres always a mad rush on the Ltd. woods. I would venture to guess that the MonkeyPod might arrive on your doorstep quicker than any Ltd. wood. FWIW,I have the MonkeyPod version here.



I'm willing to wait for a fancy schmancy wood, I do like the look of the desert ironwood, but who knows if that will be available come Jan/Feb.  I'll prob reach out to Zach directly and see if I can get something custom.  I figure if I am dropping 2Gs+ on a headphone, I better make it worth it.  That's why I went with the cocobolo and magnesium chassis on my Auteur.  Pricey, but I am in love.



UntilThen said:


> M is my name so I am not surprised that I’m my own guy.
> 
> For wood, you need the Australian Redgum.



Whoopsy, that was meant for Monster.  To be one's own guy, it is what we all strive for.  I like that redgum, would look nice on my head


----------



## UntilThen

The wit on this thread. I can’t keep up.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 25, 2019)

@2359glenn CV 399 / MH4 tubes arrived today.  These things has some heft, much larger and heavier in the hand then I had expected, I guess they weren't messing around in the 30s.

Here is a pic next to its grandson, the MOV L63 for size comparison.  They remind me of the ECC32 size-wise.  And check out those big plates!  These are going to look amazing in an amp, I can't wait to listen to them.  They appear to be exceptionally well-made, no surprise from MOV.

A bit bigger than I thought @Deyan , think they will fit in your planned adapter?


----------



## Xcalibur255

GDuss said:


> It is interesting to see how your perception of music changes before and after a bit of whisky (or wine/beer for that matter).  Sometimes it's minimal, but sometimes it's not.  Likely has to do with stress levels etc and whether or not the alcohol is relaxing muscles, not to mention relaxing all those pathways downstream of your ears.
> 
> My current collection of gear has served me well in the time that I have had it.  Looking forward to what's ahead.



Some months back there was a great discussion around this subject on Jason's "Schiit Happened" thread.  It seems not everybody experiences the same reaction to alcohol when it comes to how it affects their sound perception, and it affects people who suffer from tinnitus differently too.  My personal experience is that alcohol universally makes music sound worse, which is why I always found it so curious when people would make the classic "make your system sound better by having a shot first" comment.


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Even without any drinks my amp sounds different to me different days. Sometimes it doesn't sound really good, and sometimes really great.
> Psychological? Stress? I did notice that it sounds better many times late at night or on weekends - maybe less electrical interference/power grid etc etc? Just don't know.....



This effect is profound for me.  There are days when my system sounds genuinely bad to me, and I know it's me and not the gear.  It's actually kind of unsettling that I can feel that way about a setup so capable and expensive.  And every once in a while there will be a "golden ear" day when everything sounds incredible.  Those listening sessions are special and I cherish them.

Barometric pressure is a big factor for me I have found.  Some days my ears just sound more "open" than others.  It isn't necessarily related to the pressure being specifically low or high either, it seems to be rapid swings from changing weather fronts that cause it.  My ears seem to need time to equalize when there is a pressure shift.

I've kind of adopted Bob Ross's philosophy on this over time.  He always used to say "you have to have some bad times in life in order to be able to appreciate the good ones" and the older I get the more I appreciate the deep wisdom of that sentiment.


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> @2359glenn CV 399 / MH4 tubes arrived today.  These things has some heft, much larger and heavier in the hand then I had expected, I guess they weren't messing around in the 30s.
> 
> Here is a pic next to its grandson, the MOV L63 for size comparison.  They remind me of the ECC32 size-wise.  And check out those big plates!  These are going to look amazing in an amp, I can't wait to listen to them.  They appear to be exceptionally well-made, no surprise from MOV.
> 
> A bit bigger than I thought @Deyan , think they will fit in your planned adapter?



These look quite a bit like an ST glass style 45 tube.  Did they ever make globe versions of these?


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 25, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Thanks for your response. I did buy an after market cable for my Redgum Rgi120enr. It's the Isotek power cable. Not very expensive. Whether I hear a difference or not, I haven't verified but at least it looks better than the PC power cord that came with the unit.
> https://www.audiotrends.com.au/isot...deSQEQx-l3mKwxhorUQ01sClzy22-XcUaAtclEALw_wcB
> 
> However you're right. I will upgrade from all of my PC power cord to at least those Isotek power cords.



Try Supra cables.  Quite affordable.  Also, get at least 2m even if you don't need them that long.  There is a consistent trend in these cables that the longer ones seem to provide more benefit than the short ones do.

@Zachik I would make this recommendation for you as well.  I settled on the Supra stuff as a good "affordable" entry into this nonsense after doing a great deal of research.  My hope is it would provide a bit of a filtering effect and spare me from having to buy an expensive power conditioner, and it did indeed accomplish that goal.  These are cheap enough that if you struggle to hear any difference at least you don't have to feel foolish for having made the investment.  

FWIW I also found break-in to be an actual thing with these power cables.  It feels silly even typing that, but I heard what I heard.  I found I needed to wait a couple of weeks before judging their effect, and in the case of the one I put on the speaker amp I could hear the sound change day by day as I listened to it just the same way I hear tubes break in.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> These look quite a bit like an ST glass style 45 tube.  Did they ever make globe versions of these?



Yes they did, the very first ones were globes, although they had mesh plates.  From my reading, this form must have been pretty short-lived, as they were first manufactured in 1929 and by the mid 1930s, they became ST shaped and dropped the mesh plates.

Here is a photo:


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> This effect is profound for me.  There are days when my system sounds genuinely bad to me, and I know it's me and not the gear.  It's actually kind of unsettling that I can feel that way about a setup so capable and expensive.  And every once in a while there will be a "golden ear" day when everything sounds incredible.  Those listening sessions are special and I cherish them.
> 
> Barometric pressure is a big factor for me I have found.  Some days my ears just sound more "open" than others.  It isn't necessarily related to the pressure being specifically low or high either, it seems to be rapid swings from changing weather fronts that cause it.  My ears seem to need time to equalize when there is a pressure shift.
> 
> I've kind of adopted Bob Ross's philosophy on this over time.  He always used to say "you have to have some bad times in life in order to be able to appreciate the good ones" and the older I get the more I appreciate the deep wisdom of that sentiment.


Ouch, in my case I  rather attribute it to electrical interference than age, but who knows....


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> @2359glenn CV 399 / MH4 tubes arrived today.  These things has some heft, much larger and heavier in the hand then I had expected, I guess they weren't messing around in the 30s.
> 
> Here is a pic next to its grandson, the MOV L63 for size comparison.  They remind me of the ECC32 size-wise.  And check out those big plates!  These are going to look amazing in an amp, I can't wait to listen to them.  They appear to be exceptionally well-made, no surprise from MOV.
> 
> A bit bigger than I thought @Deyan , think they will fit in your planned adapter?



Nice looking tubes!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> ...and "Brothers in Arms" is one of my all time tracks! Listened to the whole 7+ minutes of it on the Sennheiser HE-1 during one of the CanJams! All I can say is: WOW!!



I miss the opportunity to experience the HE-1 in 2018 at the Sydney HiFi Show. The queue was too long. It's a shame. Sisters in Arms would have sounded good too on it.


----------



## cdanguyen08

@UntilThen Anything you would change on your GOTL if you were to do it all over again? been reading past couple days and looks like tubes sound great on the HD800 and ZMF headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

I bought a new tube amp that can be coupled to the Studio Six or GOTL for added soundstage, bass, impact and dynamics. It is the future of all tube amps design. A very rare globe tube that dates back to 1900.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 25, 2019)

cdanguyen08 said:


> @UntilThen Anything you would change on your GOTL if you were to do it all over again? been reading past couple days and looks like tubes sound great on the HD800 and ZMF headphones.



Hi Cda,

Welcome to Glenn Studios. If you had ask me 2 months ago before rectifiers came into my life, I would have said go with the Glenn Super 9 OTL amp that I have. I wouldn't change a thing. However, now that I've tasted tube rectification with good rectifiers such as the GEC U52, Mullard GZ34 and Cossor 53ku, I'm not so sure anymore.

2 things are in my mind when deciding which GOTL to get should I have to do this again.

1. Aesthetics. what I have certainly looks nicer. IMO at least.

2. The ability to tune GOTL to my hearts contend. This would be with GOTL with tube rectification.

Having said that, even with my GOTL, you have tremendous scope for tube rolling using the driver(s) and power tubes alone. So the decision is solely yours. I don't think price wise there's a difference. For your info and others who need to know, my GOTL specs are :-

Lundahl transformer.
Single 6sn7 socket - can use 6sn7, 12sn7 or 25sn7 (switch at the back of GOTL)
dual c3g  sockets in strapped triode mode - You can use the 6sn7 or c3g as drivers. Some have use both together though that was not in the original design intent.
6 x 6BL7 / 6BX7 as power tubes or 2 / 4 6as7 / 6080 as power tubes or 2 x Cetron 6336b as power tubes.
Gold Point 47 steps attenuator
Tung Sol 5998 boost switch at the back.
Built in hexfred solid state rectification.

The rest are standard chassis, 1/4 inch and xlr headphone jacks in front.

Optionally you could ask for Jupiter caps. Extra cost.
Yamamoto sockets - even more extra cost.

So basically the choice is yours. A basic GOTL with 6 x 6bx7 is quite affordable but once you add in all the extras, then it will all add up. For cost, please PM Glenn and discuss your requirements. He's helpful and responsive. A top bloke.


----------



## UntilThen

cdanguyen08 said:


> @UntilThen Anything you would change on your GOTL if you were to do it all over again? been reading past couple days and looks like tubes sound great on the HD800 and ZMF headphones.



This is a fact. HD800 and ZMF Verite sounds better with most tube amps but on Glenn Super OTL amp, it's the bringer of Mars, wars, peace and love.  

Ok on the serious side, those headphones with GOTL is one of life's most pleasurable indulgence. I could not put it any other way. 

I have tried HD800 on my previous Ragnarok with Yggdrasil. It's good and I'm not kidding here BUT substitute Ragnarok for GOTL and good becomes BEST.


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes they did, the very first ones were globes, although they had mesh plates.  From my reading, this form must have been pretty short-lived, as they were first manufactured in 1929 and by the mid 1930s, they became ST shaped and dropped the mesh plates.
> 
> Here is a photo:



45 tubes are the same.  All globes were basically made between 1928 and 1932 more or less.  Considering how common the usage was in home radios in their time it's amazing how many globes survive to this day too.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> I bought a new tube amp that can be coupled to the Studio Six or GOTL for added soundstage, bass, impact and dynamics. It is the future of all tube amps design. A very rare globe tube that dates back to 1900.



I bet if we could trace the cord on that thing we would find it attached to your ears.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I bet if we could trace the cord on that thing we would find it attached to your ears.



That round tube is the first iteration of the 45 tube.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> The original loaner departed from @Hansotek not long ago. That unit has been sold.


I've heard that when the Lampi DACs go on tour, then tend to get stuck at the first "venue"?



Xcalibur255 said:


> Some months back there was a great discussion around this subject on Jason's "Schiit Happened" thread.  It seems not everybody experiences the same reaction to alcohol when it comes to how it affects their sound perception, and it affects people who suffer from tinnitus differently too.  My personal experience is that alcohol universally makes music sound worse, which is why I always found it so curious when people would make the classic "make your system sound better by having a shot first" comment.


How about cannabis? Presuming it's legal in your state of course. I wouldn't want to be recommending anything illegal where you live.

Anyone else using custom power cords? If you knew the markup on the expensive cables, it would make you want to puke. I purchased these from a guy in Canada for all my gear:
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649407644-pair-of-high-end-heavy-duty-power-cables-brand-new


----------



## Hansotek

Zachik said:


> OK - those are the *exact *power cords I was eyeing already!  You have just reaffirmed my choice
> You did mention the Dectet had an audible improvement. Did you hear additional improvement from the power cords as well?  Or did you replace power cords and power conditioner at the same time, and therefore the improvement was done by the "combo"?



@Zachik - I would recommend getting your power cords from Wireworld. I like the Electra 7 a lot, but the even the entry-level Stratus is absolutely terrific and a big upgrade from the Pangea. The design, insulation and gauge is the same on both, so you're getting 95%+ of the benefit. Electra 7 sounds a little "sweeter" because it's OCC. I have both cables in my system currently.


----------



## Hansotek (Sep 25, 2019)

leftside said:


> I've heard that when the Lampi DACs go on tour, then tend to get stuck at the first "venue"?



That LampizatOr DAC was ridiculously good. It got a lot of quality time with the GOTL.


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Why did I bring up rca interconnects, power.filtration, power cord. Now I’ll be out of pocket even more. I should have listen to Jason of Sciit Audio and just use the supplied PC power cord.



Jason is here to serve his own needs, not yours.


----------



## Monsterzero

Hansotek said:


> @Zachik - I would recommend getting your power cords from Wireworld. I like the Electra 7 a lot, but the even the entry-level Stratus is absolutely terrific and a big upgrade from the Pangea. The design, insulation and gauge is the same on both, so you're getting 95%+ of the benefit. Electra 7 sounds a little "sweeter" because it's OCC. I have both cables in my system currently.


 Hansotek was the one who recommended the PSAudio power conditioner to me,and it worked wonders,so I would listen to his recommendation on this product.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> Jason is here to serve his own needs, not yours.



hahaha


----------



## Hansotek

Xcalibur255 said:


> This effect is profound for me.  There are days when my system sounds genuinely bad to me, and I know it's me and not the gear.  It's actually kind of unsettling that I can feel that way about a setup so capable and expensive.  And every once in a while there will be a "golden ear" day when everything sounds incredible.  Those listening sessions are special and I cherish them.
> 
> Barometric pressure is a big factor for me I have found.  Some days my ears just sound more "open" than others.  It isn't necessarily related to the pressure being specifically low or high either, it seems to be rapid swings from changing weather fronts that cause it.  My ears seem to need time to equalize when there is a pressure shift.
> 
> I've kind of adopted Bob Ross's philosophy on this over time.  He always used to say "you have to have some bad times in life in order to be able to appreciate the good ones" and the older I get the more I appreciate the deep wisdom of that sentiment.



White, yes, barometric pressure and ENT (Ear, Nose and Throat) condition play a big role... In my experience, if your equipment sounds good on some days and bad on others, you and @mordy probably need power conditioners. Garbage in, garbage out, as they say. This used to be a big problem for me, and as soon as I bought a PS Audio Dectet, it went away forever. 

Just my two cents.


----------



## UntilThen

Now I'll need a better power cord for my new tube amp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 25, 2019)

leftside said:


> Anyone else using custom power cords? If you knew the markup on the expensive cables, it would make you want to puke. I purchased these from a guy in Canada for all my gear:
> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649407644-pair-of-high-end-heavy-duty-power-cables-brand-new



Those look very well-made and are not absurdly over-priced.  I once tried to loan some expensive power cables from thecableco.com from their "lending library", thought I'd expose them to the Snake Oil Lens of Truth and see if there was anything to it.  Filled out an application and never heard back, so it remains a mystery.

I've been eyeballing the hospital-grade power cords at work.  Surely if they are good enough for a $150,000 cardiac ultrasound, they are good enough for my $1,500 tube amp, right?


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've been eyeballing the hospital-grade power cords at work. Surely if they are good enough for a $150,000 cardiac ultrasound, they are good enough for my $1,500 tube amp, right?


 Perhaps you can "borrow" one for scientific research purposes?!


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> White, yes, barometric pressure and ENT (Ear, Nose and Throat) condition play a big role... In my experience, if your equipment sounds good on some days and bad on others, you and @mordy probably need power conditioners. Garbage in, garbage out, as they say. This used to be a big problem for me, and as soon as I bought a PS Audio Dectet, it went away forever.
> 
> Just my two cents.



Are you referring to this? Price is not too expensive. I might give it a try.
https://www.theaudioexperts.com.au/product/ps-audio-dectet/


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Are you referring to this? Price is not too expensive. I might give it a try.
> https://www.theaudioexperts.com.au/product/ps-audio-dectet/


 Yep.Same as I have.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Those look very well-made and are not absurdly over-priced.  I once tried to loan some expensive power cables from thecableco.com from their "lending library", thought I'd expose them to the Snake Oil Lens of Truth and see if there was anything to it.  Filled out an application and never heard back, so it remains a mystery.
> 
> I've been eyeballing the hospital-grade power cords at work.  Surely if they are good enough for a $150,000 cardiac ultrasound, they are good enough for my $1,500 tube amp, right?



Hi LG,
I actually bought 14 gauge hospital grade AC power cords from Amazon - around $10-12. Actually noticed an improvement with a better defined bass.





https://www.amazon.com/CableWholesa...e+power+cable&qid=1569464822&s=gateway&sr=8-3
BTW, I agree with your logic.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Now I'll need a better power cord for my new tube amp.


Yeah - fancy incandescent lamp....


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 25, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Perhaps you can "borrow" one for scientific research purposes?!



Hmm you might be onto something...

More important: life-saving diagnostic procedure...or audio nirvana...

It's a toss up.



mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> I actually bought 14 gauge hospital grade AC power cords from Amazon - around $10-12. Actually noticed an improvement with a better defined bass.
> 
> 
> ...



I just might grab a few mordy, rugged and the price is right!


----------



## Hansotek

UntilThen said:


> Are you referring to this? Price is not too expensive. I might give it a try.
> https://www.theaudioexperts.com.au/product/ps-audio-dectet/



Yep. Anything in that line from the Duet (discontinued, but occasionally available on ebay) to the Dectet. I actually own both the duet and the dectet, they sound largely the same, but the Dectet gives you 10 outlets instead of 4. Same technology though.


----------



## Monsterzero

@L0rdGwyn & @Zachik 

Texted with @Gopher earlier. The tubed Amber 3 has been ordered and is being built,but apparently the whole shop was shut down for a sailing regatta...true story. I suspect Gopher will be in touch.


----------



## UntilThen

Hansotek said:


> Yep. Anything in that line from the Duet (discontinued, but occasionally available on ebay) to the Dectet. I actually own both the duet and the dectet, they sound largely the same, but the Dectet gives you 10 outlets instead of 4. Same technology though.



What about the Belkin? I just bought this 2 days ago. 

https://www.belkin.com/au/support-article?articleNum=315200


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> What about the Belkin? I just bought this 2 days ago.
> 
> https://www.belkin.com/au/support-article?articleNum=315200


 Hate to be the bearer of bad news,but "the crappy conditioner" I referenced earlier was a similar Belkin. No comparison. Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## mordy

Hansotek said:


> White, yes, barometric pressure and ENT (Ear, Nose and Throat) condition play a big role... In my experience, if your equipment sounds good on some days and bad on others, you and @mordy probably need power conditioners. Garbage in, garbage out, as they say. This used to be a big problem for me, and as soon as I bought a PS Audio Dectet, it went away forever.
> 
> Just my two cents.


Hi Hansotek,
Years ago I bought an 8 outlet Monster power conditioner which had somewhat of an impact on the sound with a blacker background. All my Hi Fi stuff is connected to it.
It is very probable that newer stuff works better.
Reminds me of a Japanese audio enthusiast that had a utility company install his own pole for pure power:
https://thevinylfactory.com/news/japanese-audiophiles-personal-utility-pole/


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Hate to be the bearer of bad news,but "the crappy conditioner" I referenced earlier was a similar Belkin. No comparison. Sorry about your wallet.



Well it's $59 so it can go and protect the Sony 65" TV.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Well it's $59 so it can go and protect the Sony 65" TV.


 Ummm...yeah. LOL 
C'mon Matt! with all your killer gear you can do better than a $59.00 Belkin Heck,even my old crappy one was $119.00,which has been relegated to running my den setup.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Now I'll need a better power cord for my new tube amp.



What's the chassis on that thing made out of?  Looks solid.  Probably pretty resistant to noise.  And I don't see anywhere to plug in cables.  Is it bluetooth?


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Well it's $59 so it can go and protect the Sony 65" TV.


The Belkin is a surge protector, but I think that the PS Audio outlet strips mentioned above also work as power conditioners filtering out AC grunge.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Ummm...yeah. LOL
> C'mon Matt! with all your killer gear you can do better than a $59.00 Belkin Heck,even my old crappy one was $119.00,which has been relegated to running my den setup.



I told you I'm El-cheapo. Someday I'll buy a power station or a wind turbine. 

But seriously I will consider the PS Audio Dectet. 10 power ports.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> What's the chassis on that thing made out of?  Looks solid.  Probably pretty resistant to noise.  And I don't see anywhere to plug in cables.  Is it bluetooth?



The Sennheiser HE-1 sits on a block of marble. This amp is crafted from solid pure grey granite. Power cable is hidden behind and it's the highest grade rare earth metals.


----------



## cdanguyen08

UntilThen said:


> Hi Cda,
> 
> Welcome to Glenn Studios. If you had ask me 2 months ago before rectifiers came into my life, I would have said go with the Glenn Super 9 OTL amp that I have. I wouldn't change a thing. However, now that I've tasted tube rectification with good rectifiers such as the GEC U52, Mullard GZ34 and Cossor 53ku, I'm not so sure anymore.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the informative response! I'll be sure to message Glenn


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> The Sennheiser HE-1 sits on a block of marble. This amp is crafted from solid pure grey granite. Power cable is hidden behind and it's the highest grade rare earth metals.



I hear that this is what dreams are made of.


----------



## UntilThen

cdanguyen08 said:


> Thanks for the informative response! I'll be sure to message Glenn



My pleasure. There's the alternative GEL3N which is a transformer coupled amp using EL3N tubes and Lundahl transformers. It's ~ $1000 more than the GOTL but some who owns both says it's better. IMO they are both good. So again the choice is yours.


----------



## Deyan

L0rdGwyn said:


> @2359glenn CV 399 / MH4 tubes arrived today.  These things has some heft, much larger and heavier in the hand then I had expected, I guess they weren't messing around in the 30s.
> 
> Here is a pic next to its grandson, the MOV L63 for size comparison.  They remind me of the ECC32 size-wise.  And check out those big plates!  These are going to look amazing in an amp, I can't wait to listen to them.  They appear to be exceptionally well-made, no surprise from MOV.
> 
> A bit bigger than I thought @Deyan , think they will fit in your planned adapter?



I have something in mind. But alternatively you can place them side by side ( with a tiny gap between the glass ) and measure the space between the bases


----------



## mordy

UT - how about this one?


----------



## UntilThen

What is that ??? Looks like a high end Expresso machine.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> I hear that this is what dreams are made of.



GDuss, I hope you're enjoying your 2nd day here. There will be light banter and humour but when these guys talks audio, that's when they get serious.


----------



## UntilThen

Holy mackerel ! I'll have to sell the family pet to buy this. Sure looks good.
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/292747-ps-audio-directstream-power-plant-15-black-brand-new/


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Deyan said:


> I have something in mind. But alternatively you can place them side by side ( with a tiny gap between the glass ) and measure the space between the bases



Great, I will measure first thing in the morning and send it over.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> GDuss, I hope you're enjoying your 2nd day here. There will be light banter and humour but when these guys talks audio, that's when they get serious.



I’ve learned a few things. One is that this has to be the fastest moving forum on Head-Fi.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> I’ve learned a few things. One is that this has to be the fastest moving forum on Head-Fi.



Like the GOTL, this thread is about fast transient attack, sustain and decay. The latest interest in customised SET amps from Glenn is very fascinating to talk about. In the next few months, there will be some very interesting builds done by Glenn.


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> @Zachik I would make this recommendation for you as well. I settled on the Supra stuff as a good "affordable" entry into this nonsense after doing a great deal of research. My hope is it would provide a bit of a filtering effect and spare me from having to buy an expensive power conditioner, and it did indeed accomplish that goal. These are cheap enough that if you struggle to hear any difference at least you don't have to feel foolish for having made the investment.


Where did you buy from?  A quick google search yields mostly European websites, or places that sell the cord itself (without the plugs)... 
Also, cheap enough to not make me feel stupid if I hear no improvement - is a good thing  
I thought the Pangea that @Monsterzero suggested would probably be that - not very cheap, but not in a heart-breaking territory if I cannot tell it sounds better.


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Where did you buy from?  A quick google search yields mostly European websites, or places that sell the cord itself (without the plugs)...
> Also, cheap enough to not make me feel stupid if I hear no improvement - is a good thing
> I thought the Pangea that @Monsterzero suggested would probably be that - not very cheap, but not in a heart-breaking territory if I cannot tell it sounds better.


https://store.wireworldcable.com/collections/power-conditioning-cords


----------



## Zachik

Hansotek said:


> @Zachik - I would recommend getting your power cords from Wireworld. I like the Electra 7 a lot, but the even the entry-level Stratus is absolutely terrific and a big upgrade from the Pangea. The design, insulation and gauge is the same on both, so you're getting 95%+ of the benefit. Electra 7 sounds a little "sweeter" because it's OCC. I have both cables in my system currently.


Grrrr...... I can see my budget going from $50 / cable (entry-level Pangea) to $80-90 (for the better Pangea) to $105-120 (WireWorld Stratus). The "sweeter" Electra 7 is not so sweet at $300-360 (depending on length). I think I would rather buy 3 of the Stratus (for GOTL, DAC, upcoming 6EL3N) for the same $300+  <wallet sobbing quietly>



Monsterzero said:


> Hansotek was the one who recommended the PSAudio power conditioner to me,and it worked wonders,so I would listen to his recommendation on this product.


I would absolutely listen to Dave. Met the guy couple times in person, and HIGHLY regard his opinions and recommendations!  Pangea is definitely out of the race...


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> I actually bought 14 gauge hospital grade AC power cords from Amazon - around $10-12. Actually noticed an improvement with a better defined bass.
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm.... Could be a super-cheap upgrade to my "lesser" amps (Lyr3, WA6)  
I think for my main DAC, GOTL and 6EL3N - I will treat them with the good stuff!


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> @L0rdGwyn & @Zachik
> 
> Texted with @Gopher earlier. The tubed Amber 3 has been ordered and is being built,but apparently the whole shop was shut down for a sailing regatta...true story. I suspect Gopher will be in touch.


Thanks @Monsterzero !
I hope I am ahead of @L0rdGwyn - otherwise, if history is repeating itself, the DAC would stay at @L0rdGwyn for ever...


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> https://store.wireworldcable.com/collections/power-conditioning-cords


I was referring to the Supra cables that @Xcalibur255 recommended...


----------



## cdanguyen08

UntilThen said:


> My pleasure. There's the alternative GEL3N which is a transformer coupled amp using EL3N tubes and Lundahl transformers. It's ~ $1000 more than the GOTL but some who owns both says it's better. IMO they are both good. So again the choice is yours.



Thank you for the other recommendation! Been reading up on it and it looks to be a better fit. I dont want to go down another rabbit hole of tube rolling haha. Plus I move every couple years so less to move! Just looking for that tube sound for my HD800 and future ZMF headphones! (Aeolus has got my eye)


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 26, 2019)

cdanguyen08 said:


> Thank you for the other recommendation! Been reading up on it and it looks to be a better fit. I dont want to go down another rabbit hole of tube rolling haha. Plus I move every couple years so less to move! Just looking for that tube sound for my HD800 and future ZMF headphones! (Aeolus has got my eye)



*GEL3N*

I think it's a good choice going with GEL3N. You have a choice of the standard build with the silver chassis or the larger black chassis if you want speakers out. Some of these guys are having a 6EL3N being build. Meaning 2 x EL3N as drivers and 4 x EL3N as powers for speakers and for headphones, it will use 2 x EL3N as power tubes. It will have 1 or 2 stage mode. In one stage mode, only the back power tube is used. In 2 stage mode both driver and power tubes are used. One stage mode is quieter and supposedly sounds better and it's sufficient to drive your headphones.

If you decide to go with just the basic GEL3N, like what @whirlwind has, then it's quite simple and good and will be cheaper than the expanded build. So again choices.

To get your EL3N tubes, you email Peter of http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/ and let him know that you want Philips Miniwatt EL3N tubes and the quantity you need. According to the website, the cost is 25 euro incl VAT and 20.65 ex.VAT. each excluding shipping.


----------



## UntilThen

At the expanse of repeating I'll post the pictures once again for you.

This is the standard build with 1 and 2 stage mode. No speakers out. Use one tube rectification.
 

This is the build with speakers out so larger chassis is required. Use one tube rectification. Similarly has 1 or 2 stage mode.
 

Other expanded build with 4 x EL3N power tubes have not been build yet. So no photos available.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 26, 2019)

As you can see, this EL3N amp is very striking and looks great. Sound is suppose to be great too according to Glenn and Joe. In a SET amp, the transformers are more important. Here the expensive Lundahl transformers are used. Having experience with what a SET amp can sound like in my Studio Six, I can tell you the sound is refined and powerful with a lot of punch but it will resolve complex music with ease. Best of all, it's very quiet between songs. Just a very low noise background. Too low for a tube amp and that's the beauty of it.

You can't go wrong with GEL3N. Besides, if you are itching to tube roll, just ask Deyan to make EL34 to EL3N adapters and you can use EL34, 6V6, etc. in the power position.


----------



## cdanguyen08

@UntilThen you've been a gentleman through all the help and information you have given me and I know for others as well.


----------



## UntilThen

cdanguyen08 said:


> @UntilThen you've been a gentleman through all the help and information you have given me and I know for others as well.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 26, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Hmmm.... Could be a super-cheap upgrade to my "lesser" amps (Lyr3, WA6)
> I think for my main DAC, GOTL and 6EL3N - I will treat them with the good stuff!



I will go with these power cables for Yggdrasil, Studio Six and GOTL.
https://www.audiotrends.com.au/isot...F8mq2hlg2ZeZpDxitg8Vh7Fzau_KMawgaAqlhEALw_wcB

and one of this
https://www.apollohifi.com.au/isote...bqDMiJ8o4Ymme88CWiC-5-uiBHkmBIJMaAk7KEALw_wcB

or this conditioner
https://www.apollohifi.com.au/isote..._xKALhgNORoVcPB1yk-cvWghI2DAxwf0aAj0yEALw_wcB


----------



## UntilThen

So @Phantaminum  what monstrosity amp are you getting next? Inquisitive minds wants to know.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi Hansotek,
> Years ago I bought an 8 outlet Monster power conditioner which had somewhat of an impact on the sound with a blacker background. All my Hi Fi stuff is connected to it.
> It is very probable that newer stuff works better.
> Reminds me of a Japanese audio enthusiast that had a utility company install his own pole for pure power:
> https://thevinylfactory.com/news/japanese-audiophiles-personal-utility-pole/



Or move to the boonies you get your own transformer feeding your house.
Then you can contaminate the power your self with light dimmers and noisy LED bulbs


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Or move to the boonies you get your own transformer feeding your house.
> Then you can contaminate the power your self with light dimmers and noisy LED bulbs


Did not think of the newer LED bulbs as causing electrical interference noise, but I now realize that you are right.
When I listen to the news on AM radio (battery operated) I can definitely hear added noise from new LED bulbs I just installed.
I have to turn off the lights in my office/listening room and see if there is a difference in my system.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> So @Phantaminum  what monstrosity amp are you getting next? Inquisitive minds wants to know.



Not sure yet. Going to just kick back and listen to what I currently have and then think about what ridiculous thing to ask Glenn to build. I’m hoping once I come up with a crazy idea he gives me a on the fence “No”. That means I’m on the right track  

SET amp for sure. 

Something with EL34/ELxx type tube or possibly even a 2A3 instead of a 300B. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 2A3 Glenn amp before.


----------



## Gopher

Monsterzero said:


> @L0rdGwyn & @Zachik
> 
> Texted with @Gopher earlier. The tubed Amber 3 has been ordered and is being built,but apparently the whole shop was shut down for a sailing regatta...true story. I suspect Gopher will be in touch.



Yes, I'll still get the last two guys on the tour a unit to spend some time with and have an idea up my sleeve.  I'll reach out by PM this morning.

Best,

Fred


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Not sure yet. Going to just kick back and listen to what I currently have and then think about what ridiculous thing to ask Glenn to build. I’m hoping once I come up with a crazy idea he gives me a on the fence “No”. That means I’m on the right track
> 
> SET amp for sure.
> 
> Something with EL34/ELxx type tube or possibly even a 2A3 instead of a 300B. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 2A3 Glenn amp before.



Yup you have the Apex Teton so what's the rush.  2A3 is another good option. Midrange is sweeter and tighter than the 300b. Last year in a private chat with Tyrell, we talk about using 45 / 2a3 by way of a switch but I think that may be complicating it. So many options.


----------



## UntilThen

Gopher said:


> Yes, I'll still get the last two guys on the tour a unit to spend some time with and have an idea up my sleeve.  I'll reach out by PM this morning.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Fred



Hi Fred, the Lampizator Atlantic TRP sure looks classy. Nice of you to drop in. Cheers UT.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Yup you have the Apex Teton so what's the rush.  2A3 is another good option. Midrange is sweeter and tighter than the 300b. Last year in a private chat with Tyrell, we talk about using 45 / 2a3 by way of a switch but I think that may be complicating it. So many options.



Not even rushing it. I’m just going to sit back and enjoy what I currently have. Probably for a good long while but really who are we kidding. Both of us are like objects in perpetual motion. We either have to keep rolling tubes or play with different amps. Hard to sit still, lol. 

I will say that the Teton has had me dial in a sound and keep it. It’s not like the GOTL where most tubes sound great. This amp is much more pickier that it borders absurdness.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Both of us are like objects in perpetual motion.



That is true. We're at a stage where we can just sit back and enjoy the music. I'm spending a lot more time with Studio Six now. When instruments are presented so vividly to your ears, it's tantalising but the prospect of Berlin drives my excitement level up another notch. There are actually quite a few tube amps I would have like to have a listen. Such as your Teton, DNA Stratus and one of Eddie Current Studio Jr, Glenn 300b amp. Perhaps it's time to organise another Sydney meet and hope that these units turn up.


----------



## UntilThen

And when all is heard and done, it's time to go home.  One of the iconic song of all time.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> What is that ??? Looks like a high end Expresso machine.


Hi UT,
The cappuccino machine is actually a tube amp using 833C output tubes. And there is liquid in it......
Similarly priced to the GOTL - just add another two 0s:
*"$175,000 – Audio Power Labs 833TNT* The 833TNT is an all tube class-A power amp that pumps out 200W at 8 or 4 ohms, which is a lot for a tube amp. Its Art-Deco enclosure houses two gigantic 833C output tubes operated in push-pull and driven by a 6550 pentode. If this thing looks like it gets hot, you’re right. It uses a computer controlled liquid-cooling system to keep the tubes operating at a safe temperature."


----------



## pippen99

Also wondered about 2A3 amp.  Had not heard that possibility mentioned until today.


----------



## UntilThen

Love to have that driving my speakers. Class-A at 200w into 8 or 4 ohms is a beast and liquid cooling ! Looks like a Bill Gates creation.

That cappuccino machine is a beauty.


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Did not think of the newer LED bulbs as causing electrical interference noise, but I now realize that you are right.
> When I listen to the news on AM radio (battery operated) I can definitely hear added noise from new LED bulbs I just installed.
> I have to turn off the lights in my office/listening room and see if there is a difference in my system.


Turned on my GOTL and associated gear. Turned on and off the LED lights while having the system on without music playing at what would be ear splitting volume - I can hear significant electrical grunge. Turning on my desk lamp LED I hear a little pop and maybe a little more noise with the ceiling lights.
However, at normal to loud listening volumes there is no noise that I can hear.


----------



## UntilThen

pippen99 said:


> Also wondered about 2A3 amp.  Had not heard that possibility mentioned until today.



The idea was floated before by @TonyNewman.  And where is he hiding. Should be here talking about his 300b amp.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Love to have that driving my speakers. Class-A at 200w into 8 or 4 ohms is a beast and liquid cooling ! Looks like a Bill Gates creation.
> 
> That cappuccino machine is a beauty.


Not sure if you need two of those for stereo......
Interesting that the manufacturer is in the USA in Ohio - did not know that there is a market for Ferrari priced tube amps.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> The cappuccino machine is actually a tube amp using 833C output tubes. And there is liquid in it......
> Similarly priced to the GOTL - just add another two 0s:
> *"$175,000 – Audio Power Labs 833TNT* The 833TNT is an all tube class-A power amp that pumps out 200W at 8 or 4 ohms, which is a lot for a tube amp. Its Art-Deco enclosure houses two gigantic 833C output tubes operated in push-pull and driven by a 6550 pentode. If this thing looks like it gets hot, you’re right. It uses a computer controlled liquid-cooling system to keep the tubes operating at a safe temperature."



So does it go in your listening room or on the kitchen counter?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Not sure if you need two of those for stereo......
> Interesting that the manufacturer is in the USA in Ohio - did not know that there is a market for Ferrari priced tube amps.



That should drive a pair of Dynaudio Confidence 60. Your goosebumps will get goosebumps, that's what they say.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> So does it go in your listening room or on the kitchen counter?



Kitchen of course unless you want to upset the wife.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Turned on my GOTL and associated gear. Turned on and off the LED lights while having the system on without music playing at what would be ear splitting volume - I can hear significant electrical grunge. Turning on my desk lamp LED I hear a little pop and maybe a little more noise with the ceiling lights.
> However, at normal to loud listening volumes there is no noise that I can hear.



I like the irony of lighting a room with LEDs to listen to an amplifier driven by tubes.

Do you think CFLs would be worse?  Are we all going to start sourcing incandescent bulbs for listening rooms?


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> I like the irony of lighting a room with LEDs to listen to an amplifier driven by tubes.
> 
> Do you think CFLs would be worse?  Are we all going to start sourcing incandescent bulbs for listening rooms?



My crystal ball is super quiet and does not introduce any noise. On the contrary, it emits some fairy dust which completes the package.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> My crystal ball is super quiet and does not introduce any noise. On the contrary, it emits some fairy dust which completes the package.



Be careful with that crystal ball.  The bulb is going to get really valuable once people figure out how quiet it is (although maybe it's already priceless, could be).


----------



## GDuss

Hansotek said:


> @Zachik - I would recommend getting your power cords from Wireworld. I like the Electra 7 a lot, but the even the entry-level Stratus is absolutely terrific and a big upgrade from the Pangea. The design, insulation and gauge is the same on both, so you're getting 95%+ of the benefit. Electra 7 sounds a little "sweeter" because it's OCC. I have both cables in my system currently.



Hansotek, how flexible are these cables?  I'm looking at them and it is not easy to tell from the photos, for example

https://www.thecableco.com/stratus-7-power-cord.html

Doesn't show the cable being coiled so you can't tell anything about its flexibility.


----------



## UntilThen

I started this monstrosity in Elise. That's the start of 6EL3N craze and that's back in 2016 when I was young and dashing !

It even has my signature.


----------



## Hansotek

GDuss said:


> Hansotek, how flexible are these cables?  I'm looking at them and it is not easy to tell from the photos, for example
> 
> https://www.thecableco.com/stratus-7-power-cord.html
> 
> Doesn't show the cable being coiled so you can't tell anything about its flexibility.



The Stratus 7 is very flexible. No issues with that one whatsoever.


----------



## GDuss

Hansotek said:


> The Stratus 7 is very flexible. No issues with that one whatsoever.



Great to hear, thank you.


----------



## Phantaminum

GDuss said:


> Be careful with that crystal ball.  The bulb is going to get really valuable once people figure out how quiet it is (although maybe it's already priceless, could be).



Too late for that. I’ve purchased all crystal balls on eBay and snow globes just to make sure when prices rise I can resell them at a premium.

Now to ask Deyan if he can make a dual snow globe adapter to 6SN7 socket.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve purchased all crystal balls on eBay



You ain't seen crystal balls yet till you see mine.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm selling those crystal balls now. Place your orders fast.


----------



## UntilThen

Ha... I even make a video of Elise and tube rolling. I should do the same for GOTL.


----------



## OctavianH

UntilThen said:


> I started this monstrosity in Elise. That's the start of 6EL3N craze and that's back in 2016 when I was young and dashing !
> 
> It even has my signature.



Those adapters were awful. I followed your monstrosity and honestly one of them failed after a few days. I still have one functional, can be used in the GOTL in the 6SN7 socket for a dual-EL3N driver? It has the same wiring?


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> I still have one functional, can be used in the GOTL in the 6SN7 socket for a dual-EL3N driver? It has the same wiring?



I think so. You can be the guinea pig.


----------



## OctavianH

UntilThen said:


> I think so. You can be the guinea pig.



No I can't. I don't have a GOTL. But anyway I have other nice toys. If I'll ever have one I'll try this even if I never liked EL tubes, and EL3N seems for me the worse, especially in my amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

leftside said:


> How about cannabis? Presuming it's legal in your state of course. I wouldn't want to be recommending anything illegal where you live.



I've never tried it, at least not directly (I've been around the smoke at concerts and such a few times).  Just never had any interest.

Anything that alters the mental state I'm generally not a fan of because I'm one of those people who is super aware of the influence of the substance and the altered state it's putting me in.  It's like being a 3rd party observer to a different version of myself and it's unsettling.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Zachik said:


> Where did you buy from?  A quick google search yields mostly European websites, or places that sell the cord itself (without the plugs)...
> Also, cheap enough to not make me feel stupid if I hear no improvement - is a good thing
> I thought the Pangea that @Monsterzero suggested would probably be that - not very cheap, but not in a heart-breaking territory if I cannot tell it sounds better.



There is an official reseller on eBay.  zendada I think is the name.  

If it helps, I own an older version of the Pangea AC-14 and did a direct comparison between it and the Supra LoRad.  I could hear a difference and preferred the Supra.


----------



## Monsterzero

Xcalibur255 said:


> There is an official reseller on eBay.  zendada I think is the name.
> 
> If it helps, I own an older version of the Pangea AC-14 and did a direct comparison between it and the Supra LoRad.  I could hear a difference and preferred the Supra.


 Do you happen to have his eBay link?


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 26, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Holy mackerel ! I'll have to sell the family pet to buy this. Sure looks good.
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/292747-ps-audio-directstream-power-plant-15-black-brand-new/



I have my suspicions about the Dectet as it is only passive filtration.  Maybe I have no foundation for that feeling, but I would want to know what makes their passive filtering so much better compared what you find in, say, one of the nicer hospital grade Tripp Lite Isobar units that are 1/10 the price (which are what I use).  I feel like if a guy is going to drop serious money on conditioning they might as well get into active regeneration.

The PS Audio Stellar powerplant seems like an option, but it has limited capacity and outlets.

There is also the isolation transformer route which some people swear by.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Monsterzero said:


> Do you happen to have his eBay link?



https://www.ebay.com/str/Sjofn-HiFi?_trksid=p2047675.l2563


----------



## Xcalibur255

pippen99 said:


> Also wondered about 2A3 amp.  Had not heard that possibility mentioned until today.



As originally designed my amp was able to use either the 45 or the 2A3.  When the amp had it's..... accident...... I asked Glenn the remove the 2A3 function as I felt it had nothing to offer sound-wise over the 45 and was unlikely to use it in the future.  A 2A3 is basically two 45 tubes stuck in a single glass bottle, all you are really getting out of the deal is a little more power and unless you're powering an HE-6 it's power you don't actually need.

I wish I hadn't gone that route to begin with, then we could have put 0-50 range meters on the amp instead of 0-100 for better biasing precision.


----------



## Xcalibur255

At the risk of sounding like a Supra salesperson (I swear I'm not) I also think their Quadrax speaker cable is the best sounding speaker cable I've ever used and it's not terribly expensive.  It's very much at the high end of what I would consider paying for speaker cables, but I feel their performance did justify the cost.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> I like the irony of lighting a room with LEDs to listen to an amplifier driven by tubes.
> 
> Do you think CFLs would be worse?  Are we all going to start sourcing incandescent bulbs for listening rooms?


Hi Gduss,
You know the old adage about tube equipment:
"If they make it, it hums."
Some people, like UT, live in an area without any noticeable electrical interference, but many other people have had problems with RF/EFI noise. Many times it is very difficult to isolate the exact source. One common source is a portable (landline) phone. 
Therefore, discovering that modern LED light bulbs could induce noise, it is an important consideration in locating problems with your system. As far as CFLs are concerned, I don't use them anymore so I cannot tell, but I think that fluorescent lights sometimes are the culprit.


----------



## Monsterzero

Thank you @Deyan 

My industrial strength 4v>5v adapter arrived today. All is right in my world now.
GEC U18/20+Ken Rad VT231+6x 6BX7s= Winning ticket for the VC.


----------



## Deyan

Monsterzero said:


> Thank you @Deyan
> 
> My industrial strength 4v>5v adapter arrived today. All is right in my world now.
> GEC U18/20+Ken Rad VT231+6x 6BX7s= Winning ticket for the VC.



Happy to help


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Thank you @Deyan
> 
> My industrial strength 4v>5v adapter arrived today. All is right in my world now.
> GEC U18/20+Ken Rad VT231+6x 6BX7s= Winning ticket for the VC.



I can imagine the bass coming from the KR and 6BX7s. Phew!


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 26, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> I can imagine the bass coming from the KR and 6BX7s. Phew!


 Most def! The Ken Rad brings noticeably more bass weight than any of my other drivers,and it does so with GEC rectifer w/o adding unwanted fat on the bottom.
While I was waiting for the adapter to be built I had to use my GZ34,which was too much blubber on the bottom with the Ken Rad,so I had been using a new Elctro Harmonix,or the Toshiba 6SN7GT with the GZ34. It sounded good,but nothing like the above combo!

Additionally the Ken Rad does some serious magic in the mids as well.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Hi Gduss,
> You know the old adage about tube equipment:
> "If they make it, it hums."
> Some people, like UT, live in an area without any noticeable electrical interference, but many other people have had problems with RF/EFI noise. Many times it is very difficult to isolate the exact source. One common source is a portable (landline) phone.
> Therefore, discovering that modern LED light bulbs could induce noise, it is an important consideration in locating problems with your system. As far as CFLs are concerned, I don't use them anymore so I cannot tell, but I think that fluorescent lights sometimes are the culprit.



Thanks mordy.  Until this discussion, I hadn't really thought of LEDs in room lighting as being big noise sources.  And I have way less experience than others in this forum on what causes noise with tubes.  But I'm guessing CFLs are likely to be just as noisy, if not more.

In my laboratory at work, we use equipment that measures the currents that flow across the membranes of nerve cells.  This is actually how neurons work, using electricity.  But those currents are really tiny, most of the time pico-amperes, large ones can get into the nano-ampere range.  Since they are so small, we have to use amplifiers to make them large enough to work with.  Those amps are all solid state by the way.  When you try to amplify a pico-ampere current, you end up amplifying all kinds of noise also.  So we spend lots of time eliminating and tracking down noise.  The recording equipment typically has a faraday cage around it, but that only goes so far.  We sometimes end up going around the rooms, unplugging stuff, wrapping wires with aluminum foil, turning off lights (fluorescent overhead building lights, we don't have any LEDs) etc.  Sometimes it ends up being a refrigerator compressor 2 rooms over.  Sometimes you don't ever find the source.

In any case, I am now adding LED lighting to my list of paranoia items for noise.  You're right, this is important to have on the list.


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 26, 2019)

GDuss said:


> In my laboratory at work, we use equipment that measures the currents that flow across the membranes of nerve cells. This is actually how neurons work, using electricity. But those currents are really tiny, most of the time pico-amperes, large ones can get into the nano-ampere range. Since they are so small, we have to use amplifiers to make them large enough to work with. Those amps are all solid state by the way. When you try to amplify a pico-ampere current, you end up amplifying all kinds of noise also. So we spend lots of time eliminating and tracking down noise. The recording equipment typically has a faraday cage around it, but that only goes so far. We sometimes end up going around the rooms, unplugging stuff, wrapping wires with aluminum foil, turning off lights (fluorescent overhead building lights, we don't have any LEDs) etc. Sometimes it ends up being a refrigerator compressor 2 rooms over. Sometimes you don't ever find the source.



Now, read up on adding gems and crystals to your system. I used to think that was seriously for lunatics. I tried it. Im not so sure theyre crazy anymore


----------



## whirlwind

Phantaminum said:


> Not sure yet. Going to just kick back and listen to what I currently have and then think about what ridiculous thing to ask Glenn to build. I’m hoping once I come up with a crazy idea he gives me a on the fence “No”. That means I’m on the right track
> 
> SET amp for sure.
> 
> Something with EL34/ELxx type tube or possibly even a 2A3 instead of a 300B. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 2A3 Glenn amp before.




That would be a killer of an amp.


----------



## Monsterzero

In keeping with the theme of power cables,heres an interesting shootout done back in March,which includes several big $ power cables,including the Verastarr done by Mike Powell,the OCD guy in the video above.
Headphones work best for this video.

Obviously youre not going to get an accurate depiction of the sound by watching a YouTube video,but you can clearly hear an audible difference between each of these power cables.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I started this monstrosity in Elise. That's the start of 6EL3N craze and that's back in 2016 when I was young and dashing !
> 
> It even has my signature.




These tubes were a "Double Super Duper" find.   Kudos   
Love these tubes.


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> I tried it. Im not so sure theyre crazy anymore



Was this a DIY experiment?  Or did you buy something pre-made?  I'd have to test this for myself to see if I could tell any difference, but I can be convinced by data, especially data that I generate.


----------



## Monsterzero

GDuss said:


> Was this a DIY experiment?  Or did you buy something pre-made?  I'd have to test this for myself to see if I could tell any difference, but I can be convinced by data, especially data that I generate.


 I will PM you so we dont clog up the thread with snake-oil talk,but yes,DIY and inexpensive.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Some people, like UT, live in an area without any noticeable electrical interference



Ahem.... I once had a friend over to listen to my head-fi system in my study. Suddenly we can hear on the headphone what's on the TV in the lounge. Both of us look at each other in surprise.

Happens only that once though. Try as I could, I could not re-create it again.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> My industrial strength 4v>5v adapter arrived today. All is right in my world now.
> GEC U18/20+Ken Rad VT231+6x 6BX7s= Winning ticket for the VC.



Your photos are getting sharper everyday. Incredible resolution both in sight and sound I can imagine.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> At the risk of sounding like a Supra salesperson (I swear I'm not) I also think their Quadrax speaker cable is the best sounding speaker cable I've ever used and it's not terribly expensive.  It's very much at the high end of what I would consider paying for speaker cables, but I feel their performance did justify the cost.



It's ok Tyrell. Sometimes I sound like the Asia Pacific Regional Sales Manager of GOTL but I'm not. I'm more than that.


----------



## UntilThen

Today I'll try to give the RCAs a chance and I don't mean the interconnects. I mean one RCA 6sn7gt and 2 x RCA 6080 plus 2 x RCA 6as7g. Wonder how that will sound. If you hear RCA over in USA, you will know why.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Today I'll try to give the RCAs a chance and I don't mean the interconnects. I mean one RCA 6sn7gt and 2 x RCA 6080 plus 2 x RCA 6as7g. Wonder how that will sound. If you hear RCA over in USA, you will know why.


Let me guess: Too warm


----------



## UntilThen

In fact, it will be a brands day - you hear that @gibosi 

I'll do a Sylvania only combination, a Tung Sol only combination, a RCA only combination, a GE only combination.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> Thanks mordy.  Until this discussion, I hadn't really thought of LEDs in room lighting as being big noise sources.  And I have way less experience than others in this forum on what causes noise with tubes.  But I'm guessing CFLs are likely to be just as noisy, if not more.
> 
> In my laboratory at work, we use equipment that measures the currents that flow across the membranes of nerve cells.  This is actually how neurons work, using electricity.  But those currents are really tiny, most of the time pico-amperes, large ones can get into the nano-ampere range.  Since they are so small, we have to use amplifiers to make them large enough to work with.  Those amps are all solid state by the way.  When you try to amplify a pico-ampere current, you end up amplifying all kinds of noise also.  So we spend lots of time eliminating and tracking down noise.  The recording equipment typically has a faraday cage around it, but that only goes so far.  We sometimes end up going around the rooms, unplugging stuff, wrapping wires with aluminum foil, turning off lights (fluorescent overhead building lights, we don't have any LEDs) etc.  Sometimes it ends up being a refrigerator compressor 2 rooms over.  Sometimes you don't ever find the source.
> 
> In any case, I am now adding LED lighting to my list of paranoia items for noise.  You're right, this is important to have on the list.


Fascinating! And familiar sounding lol....
Sounds like you could use a good line filter for those amplifiers - do you have any Dextets?


----------



## UntilThen

Ha !  A GEC only combination too.


----------



## UntilThen

Please consider Isotek. It's a British product. I think I will go with them for cables and power conditioner.

https://www.audiotrends.com.au/cables-accessories/analogue-cables/power-cords.html


----------



## UntilThen

All RCA roll out - not bad at all. In fact pretty good. Lushness, body and texture without being muddy. There's good clarity from the choice of the early RCA 6sn7gt. With Verite, I actually like it !


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> All RCA roll out - not bad at all. In fact pretty good. Lushness, body and texture without being muddy. There's good clarity from the choice of the early RCA 6sn7gt. With Verite, I actually like it !


 Roll in RCA 6080s and TS BGRP for ultra deep staging. GZ32 if you had rectifier slot for max depth.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Roll in RCA 6080s and TS BGRP for ultra deep staging. GZ32 if you had rectifier slot for max depth.



My volume has to be turned up to 2pm for my desired loudness for some reason. I do not have a rectifier slot in my GOTL. It's Mr. Hexfred.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> My volume has to be turned up to 2pm for my desired loudness for some reason


 Damn Homie. You going deef?



UntilThen said:


> I do not have a rectifier slot in my GOTL. It's Mr. Hexfred.


 yes,I know. HEXFRED doesnt give the depth that a GZ32 will on VO


----------



## UntilThen

I don't have quad RCA 6080, so will roll in 2 x RCA 6080 and 2 x Mullard 6080 instead. With your suggested TS bgrp.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Damn Homie. You going deef?



No it's just softer for some reason.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I don't have quad RCA 6080


 I dont have quad of any 6080 either. I used just two RCA 6080s for the ultra 3d roll


----------



## audiofest2018

UntilThen said:


> Ha... I even make a video of Elise and tube rolling. I should do the same for GOTL.



UT,

  Please do one for GOTL!  I have an order on GOTL10 built  in line right after your Berlin built (I think) is done according to Glenn.  I know yours GOTL9  but still would be interested to see your tube rolling clip if you have the chance and time to make it.  It is hard to follow what you guys are discussing without actual Glenn amp to play with but I know it is definitely worthy the waiting at the end.

Cheer!


----------



## Monsterzero

audiofest2018 said:


> UT,
> 
> Please do one for GOTL!  I have an order on GOTL10 built  in line right after your Berlin built (I think) is done according to Glenn.  I know yours GOTL9  but still would be interested to see your tube rolling clip if you have the chance and time to make it.  It is hard to follow what you guys are discussing without actual Glenn amp to play with but I know it is definitely worthy the waiting at the end.
> 
> Cheer!


 I will try and do a Glenn OTL video on my channel. I was going to do a more comprehensive video before,but Glenn got sidetracked with builds. I will try and work on it soon,and post it here for the newbs.


----------



## UntilThen

Yup this is very good. TS 12SL7gt bgrp with RCA 6080s. GOTL has 50 shades of grey.


----------



## UntilThen

audiofest2018 said:


> UT,
> 
> Please do one for GOTL!  I have an order on GOTL10 built  in line right after your Berlin built (I think) is done according to Glenn.  I know yours GOTL9  but still would be interested to see your tube rolling clip if you have the chance and time to make it.  It is hard to follow what you guys are discussing without actual Glenn amp to play with but I know it is definitely worthy the waiting at the end.
> 
> Cheer!



Your wish is my command and now you'll also have Monster Inc video production. Mine is Abbey Road or Gotly Road. How do you make tubes go across the pedestrian crossing?


----------



## UntilThen

audiofest2018 said:


> UT,
> 
> Please do one for GOTL!  I have an order on GOTL10 built  in line right after your Berlin built (I think) is done according to Glenn.  I know yours GOTL9  but still would be interested to see your tube rolling clip if you have the chance and time to make it.  It is hard to follow what you guys are discussing without actual Glenn amp to play with but I know it is definitely worthy the waiting at the end.
> 
> Cheer!



Btw after Berlin, I'll be on cloud 9. So I better do the video before that.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> In fact, it will be a brands day - you hear that @gibosi
> 
> I'll do a Sylvania only combination, a Tung Sol only combination, a RCA only combination, a GE only combination.



Yes, I hear that! lol  But my instinct is to mix things up. So in my rolls, drivers, output tubes and rectifiers are always different brands.


----------



## audiofest2018

Monsterzero said:


> I will try and do a Glenn OTL video on my channel. I was going to do a more comprehensive video before,but Glenn got sidetracked with builds. I will try and work on it soon,and post it here for the newbs.


Thank you @Monsterzero!  BTW I should thank you for helping me purchase ZMF Verite  couple months ago.  I was debating between VO and Empyrean but make the call on VO after watching your review.  One of the best headphone purchase I have done!


----------



## audiofest2018

UntilThen said:


> Btw after Berlin, I'll be on cloud 9. So I better do the video before that.


I am sure that will be the case!


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Yes, I hear that! lol  But my instinct is to mix things up. So in my rolls, drivers, output tubes and rectifiers are always different brands.



Are you telling me Spaghetti is better than steak? Ok I will also try Spaghetti today. Need a balanced diet.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Fascinating! And familiar sounding lol....
> Sounds like you could use a good line filter for those amplifiers - do you have any Dextets?



Brilliant plan.  Buy them for the lab, and take them home at night.  Have to make sure we get our money's worth out of them right?


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Yes, I hear that! lol  But my instinct is to mix things up. So in my rolls, drivers, output tubes and rectifiers are always different brands.


Same here - always mixing different brands. When I find a combination I like,  I would like to think that I am getting the best characteristics of each tube to form a beautiful synergy. 
Not to speak about the global implications - Germany, Russia, the US and Britain working in harmony......


----------



## UntilThen

You forget Australia, the most important country.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Are you telling me Spaghetti is better than steak? Ok I will also try Spaghetti today. Need a balanced diet.



Well, I was thinking more along the lines of stew. Take a little of this and a little of that, whatever you have on hand, and create something savory and satisfying. 



mordy said:


> Same here - always mixing different brands. When I find a combination I like,  I would like to think that I am getting the best characteristics of each tube to form a beautiful synergy.
> Not to speak about the global implications - Germany, Russia, the US and Britain working in harmony......



Yes, it's fun to think that WWII Germany, Britain and the US get along better in my amp than they ever did on the global stage. lol. And currently, while less dramatic, I am enjoying *Australian*-Philips 6M5 drivers, Tung-Sol 6BX7 and an Hungarian-Tungsram AZ4 rectifier.


----------



## cdanguyen08

UntilThen said:


> You forget Australia, the most important country.


My favorite port visit!


----------



## UntilThen

cdanguyen08 said:


> My favorite port visit!



Are you a sailor, commander of a nuclear sub or ambassador?


----------



## cdanguyen08

UntilThen said:


> Are you a sailor, commander of a nuclear sub or ambassador?


Sailor


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> You forget Australia, the most important country.


The only Australian tubes I have are CV4010 Mullard lookalikes from Amalgamated Wireless Valve Co in Sydney, AU and I don't have the adapters to listen to them.
Often wondered if it would pay to try the 6AK5 family tubes in the GOTL in the pentode (C3g) sockets, but my intuition tells me that I am better off with the older larger tubes.
BTW, if you come across AU made EL3NG mesh plate tubes, let me know.


----------



## UntilThen

cdanguyen08 said:


> Sailor



Do they let you take the tube amp on board ship?


----------



## cdanguyen08 (Sep 27, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Do they let you take the tube amp on board ship?


No sir! But I wont be on the ship for a bit


----------



## UntilThen

cdanguyen08 said:


> No sir! But I'm up for shore duty.



Ummm... I was looking at your profile and you're a keen photographer and you have the camera that I've been thinking about but I need it with additionally a macro lens.

Sony A7iii with Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 and Laowa 15mm f2.0


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> The only Australian tubes I have are CV4010 Mullard lookalikes from Amalgamated Wireless Valve Co in Sydney, AU and I don't have the adapters to listen to them.
> Often wondered if it would pay to try the 6AK5 family tubes in the GOTL in the pentode (C3g) sockets, but my intuition tells me that I am better off with the older larger tubes.
> BTW, if you come across AU made EL3NG mesh plate tubes, let me know.



Mordy, EL3Ng made in Australia is extinct now. Maybe this will do for you. 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ONE-6M6...rentrq:709811d116d0a9cb9855174aff8e1016|iid:1


----------



## mordy (Sep 26, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, EL3Ng made in Australia is extinct now. Maybe this will do for you.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ONE-6M6G-EL33-VISSEAUX-NOS-Valvola-Tube-Valvula-Lampe-TSF-Rohre-Valve/401899175542?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=923be27940674eb7a529c786c9777500&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=401899175542&itm=401899175542&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:47c0aeb6-e0d0-11e9-969b-74dbd18099a4|parentrq:709811d116d0a9cb9855174aff8e1016|iid:1


Shipping too high lol
I have raised my self imposed buying ceiling from $6 to $10 for tubes.....Including shipping.


----------



## UntilThen

I've been sick and the only thing I can do at home is listen to music and rest.... and roll some tubes. I figure if I wreck the sockets again, I'll get Will to replace it with Yamamoto's sockets and replace the c3g socket for EL11s and re-bias them. 

Here rolling the understated and often overlooked by me - Svetlana 6h13c with Tung Sol 12SL7gt bgrp. Just another example that GOTL can sound quite fantastic with farmers tubes.


----------



## cdanguyen08 (Sep 26, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Ummm... I was looking at your profile and you're a keen photographer and you have the camera that I've been thinking about but I need it with additionally a macro lens.
> 
> Sony A7iii with Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 and Laowa 15mm f2.0



Another expensive hobby.. but love documenting my travels. Then I came home and hopped on headfi and the audio pulled me right back in! I recommend it, going up northeast here in the states to take pictures of the fall colors. im looking to get a 70-200mm lense next!


----------



## Monsterzero

Glenn video has been filmed. Editing soon. I will post it later tonight,or tomorrow.


----------



## UntilThen

cdanguyen08 said:


> Another expensive hobby.. but love documenting my travels. Then I came home and hopped on headfi and the audio pulled me right back in! I recommend it, going up northeast here in the states to take pictures of the fall colors. im looking to get a 70-200mm lense next!



A friend who's a professional photographer recommend me the Sony A7iii. So yeah next project.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Abbey Road 1st trial production.  Berlin will sue me for the song but I love it !


----------



## UntilThen

That's almost 2 years of my photos of Ulysses (GOTL) - shortlisted as the best of my ability to capture some decent photos of my beloved OTL amp and stored in my gallery -

https://www.head-fi.org/gallery/album/untilthens-album.1154653/


----------



## UntilThen

Set your playback to high definition on Youtube for best results.


----------



## UntilThen

This is a recording made with my iPhone of my professionally installed Honda Accord Euro Dynaudio sound system back in 2012. The sound in the car is so much better. This iPhone recording doesn't do it justice. The bass is not captured. I had a 12" sub in the boot with Audison Bit-Ten sound processing.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> That's almost 2 years of my photos of Ulysses (GOTL) - shortlisted as the best of my ability to capture some decent photos of my beloved OTL amp and stored in my gallery -
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/gallery/album/untilthens-album.1154653/


 Nice shots Matt. I will warn you that the YouTube police might take your video down for using a song without permission. 
On my video of the TRP,I play a short snippet of a Wishbone Ash song,that just happened to be playing in my system when I turned up the volume. In less than 24 hours I had a warning from YouTube about unauthorized usage of said song. However the record company decided it wasnt a flagrant violation of its TM laws,so they let me keep it up.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 27, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Nice shots Matt. I will warn you that the YouTube police might take your video down for using a song without permission.
> On my video of the TRP,I play a short snippet of a Wishbone Ash song,that just happened to be playing in my system when I turned up the volume. In less than 24 hours I had a warning from YouTube about unauthorized usage of said song. However the record company decided it wasnt a flagrant violation of its TM laws,so they let me keep it up.



No one watches my video so I'm safe. 

Just like the other video of sissel kyrkjebo song recorded back in 2012. Still live to today.


----------



## UntilThen

Sissel Kyrkjebo voice is so good and this duet of Bridge Over Troubled Waters is amazing.


----------



## UntilThen

Right what tubes to roll next? There's a million tubes here....


----------



## lukeap69

Listening to the Beatles Abbey Road Super Deluxe Edition. Really enjoying this with HD650 more than my HD800SD. There is something about the mids of the HD650 and GOTL (Darna) elevates it to really high level. This is with C3g+Haltron 6AS7G of course. This is going to be a long session!


----------



## UntilThen

That is one of my favourite album ! Agree that HD650 is still enjoyable today, especially with your choice of tubes. I'm about to change my tubes too.


----------



## Monsterzero

Glenn video is up. Hope this helps those waiting for your build to be completed to keep up with this thread. Enjoy.


----------



## UntilThen

Well done Monster ! Great review on the GOTL there but I have copyright on that T-shirt you're wearing so take it off and redo the video.


----------



## cdanguyen08

Great review @Monsterzero !! Prolly would've saved @UntilThen from answering all my questions haha


----------



## UntilThen

cdanguyen08 said:


> Great review @Monsterzero !! Prolly would've saved @UntilThen from answering all my questions haha



Yup he should have done that video earlier. Save me from typing out 1 page !!!

Btw Monster, you should also mention that the total amperes of all tubes used should not exceed 13a - in the case of my OTL amp. With yours using tube rectifier, I'm not sure. Probably a little less but close to that.

So 6bx7gt = 1.5a x 6 = 9a
plus one 6sn7 = 0.6 a
Total = 9.6a - well under the 13a

In the case of Cetron 6336b = 5a x 2 = 10a
plus one 6sn7 = 0.6a
Total = 10.6a 

In the case of using 4 x 6as7 or 6080.  1 x 6as7 = 2.5 x 4 = 10a
plus one 6sn7 = 0.6a
Total = 10.6a

Siemens c3g = 0.37a as pentode. Not sure what ampere in strapped triode mode. Less than pentode mode. 2 x c3g used in GOTL is as strapped triode.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Yup he should have done that video earlier. Save me from typing out 1 page !!!
> 
> Btw Monster, you should also mention that the total amperes of all tubes used should not exceed 13a - in the case of my OTL amp. With yours using tube rectifier, I'm not sure. Probably a little less but close to that.
> 
> ...



Yeah,you guys are better at the technical aspects of it then I am.
I planned on doing a more comprehensive video months ago,where I was going to show Glenn's mad scientist work space,get background on Glenn himself,as well as more technical aspects like you mentioned above. Unfortunately Glenn didnt have time to gather that info for me,so I shelved the idea for awhile. 
With more new owners coming into the thread,it gave me the idea to do an intro video instead. I know when I first jumped in here I was clueless as to what was what,and wouldve loved a video to tell me whats what,so hopefully this helps out some of the new owners.


----------



## lukeap69 (Sep 27, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> That is one of my favourite album ! Agree that HD650 is still enjoyable today, especially with your choice of tubes. I'm about to change my tubes too.


I find this combo the jack of all trades for me. I think I have made it known here that I prefer 6AS7 with HD650 and 6BX7/6BL7 with HD800SD, however Haltron (GEC) 6AS7G is good for both. I can just swap headphones and not roll tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> I find thia combo the jack of all trades for me. I think I have made it known here that I prefer 6AS7 with HD650 and 6BX7/6BL7 with HD800SD, however Haltron (GEC) 6AS7G is good for both. I can just swap headphones and not roll tubes.



In the 1.5 years, I find myself preferring 6 x 6bx7gt more than the other 6as7 / 6080, even the GEC 6as7g. That's why I sold off the GEC 6as7g. Sextet 6bx7gt has a narrower soundstage compared to the other power tube types but my focus is on vocals and midrange plus a good tight bass with fast attack and decay. I love a well extended treble too but without the glare. The GOTL is never glaring at the top end. 

So it's different strokes for different folks. There's enough tubes and combination to please everyone.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,you guys are better at the technical aspects of it then I am.
> I planned on doing a more comprehensive video months ago,where I was going to show Glenn's mad scientist work space,get background on Glenn himself,as well as more technical aspects like you mentioned above. Unfortunately Glenn didnt have time to gather that info for me,so I shelved the idea for awhile.
> With more new owners coming into the thread,it gave me the idea to do an intro video instead. I know when I first jumped in here I was clueless as to what was what,and wouldve loved a video to tell me whats what,so hopefully this helps out some of the new owners.



A good intro video like what you've done covering the aspect of purchase and different versions of GOTL is good. Also good to mention others who have compared GOTL to higher end tube amps.

As for technical matters, that's as far as I can go.  I just want to enjoy music and not have to try and understand tube amps schematics. That's not my line.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Listening to the Beatles Abbey Road Super Deluxe Edition.



Listening to this now on Tidal Hifi. This Super Deluxe Edition is really nice. Very good mix.


----------



## UntilThen

Monday onwards when I go back to work, my posts will be a lot less. Can't believe I hit the week's top. No joy in that. Just want to recover from this illness.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 27, 2019)

Back to the combo that I love. GEC B36 with 6 x GE 6BX7gt.

Not as clear as the Fivre and Tung Sol 6bx7s but it's ok. I can live with that. Tubes are quiet. That's important for me.

When GOTL sounds so good with Verite Open, I can't sell it. $1600 is stonking good value to me. That's my configuration.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Monday onwards when I go back to work, my posts will be a lot less. Can't believe I hit the week's top. No joy in that. Just want to recover from this illness.



I didn't know you were sick.
Hope you are feeling better.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I didn't know you were sick.
> Hope you are feeling better.



Thanks Glenn. Been sick for 2 weeks. Very bad virus. Finally about to shake it. It's the changing of the seasons. Just finish Winter and now into Spring.

Trust you're well and looking after yourself.


----------



## UntilThen

cdanguyen08 said:


> Another expensive hobby.. but love documenting my travels. Then I came home and hopped on headfi and the audio pulled me right back in! I recommend it, going up northeast here in the states to take pictures of the fall colors. im looking to get a 70-200mm lense next!



So you're living in USA. Fall is my favourite season. We just call it Autumn. Fall colours is beautiful in a melancholic way. I love it.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Glenn video is up. Hope this helps those waiting for your build to be completed to keep up with this thread. Enjoy.






Very well done brother!
I love that you just called it "The Glenn"   

I even got a little chuckle from this....great stuff.


----------



## cdanguyen08

UntilThen said:


> So you're living in USA. Fall is my favourite season. We just call it Autumn. Fall colours is beautiful in a melancholic way. I love it.


Fall is definitely my favorite season. Perfect season to hike. Not too hot, not too cold. I was in Japan but my time there is over. I'll have a new adventure coming up within the next few months.


----------



## cdanguyen08

@whirlwind I was wondering what your build was for your GEL3N? And anything you would change? I'm also looking to do the standard build. If ya want me to PM you instead I most certainly can. Thank ya for your time.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Glenn video is up. Hope this helps those waiting for your build to be completed to keep up with this thread. Enjoy.


Great resource for "Glenn noobs" !!
Quick semi-related question:
I see your GOTL is on a rack shelf, and I am going to do the same soon (when my rack arrives...). 
First, how high is the clearing vertically, to allow for tube-pulling etc.?
Second, I see you have used wood blocks under the GOTL. Why did you do that? Does it help vibration isolation? other reasons?

Thanks again for a very good video, and for keeping UT's copyrighted shirt on...  
UT - I know slang down under is different, but tube-porn is NOT topless audio reviews!


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Great resource for "Glenn noobs" !!
> Quick semi-related question:
> I see your GOTL is on a rack shelf, and I am going to do the same soon (when my rack arrives...).
> First, how high is the clearing vertically, to allow for tube-pulling etc.?
> ...


I have an audio rack with a spacing of 9.5" between the shelves (not adjustable). This is a tight fit for the larger tubes, especially with adapters. If you plan on frequent tube changes might be best to have the tube amp on the top shelf of the rack.
Then there is the question of ventilation. I solved it with a fan mounted on the underside of the shelf above, drawing away the air from the amp. In any case, you need good ventilation.


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Great resource for "Glenn noobs" !!
> Quick semi-related question:
> I see your GOTL is on a rack shelf, and I am going to do the same soon (when my rack arrives...).
> First, how high is the clearing vertically, to allow for tube-pulling etc.?
> ...



Firstly, my shirt was my reward for donating to the Nepal earthquake relief fund a few years back. Good shirt for a good cause. 

Yes my rack is adjustable. I had to take the entire thing apart to accommodate for tube rolling on my GOTL,as well as my Lampizat0r TRP DAC.



 

I allowed for approx. 17" from the rack the GOTL sits on to the bottom of the rack above,which holds one of my vintage receivers. Its plenty of room for me to safely roll tubes without smashing the tubes into the bottom of the rack above.

The wooden blocks have a double layer of sorbethane to help cut down on vibrations,which can really help improve SQ. The blocks also add some vertical distance from the heat generated by my DAC.
I looked around on the rack itself for a brand name,but couldnt find one,but I bought it from Audio Breakthroughs. Perhaps you can call them and ask if they still carry it,get the name from them and buy it direct.
Hope this helps.


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> Glenn video is up. Hope this helps those waiting for your build to be completed to keep up with this thread. Enjoy.



This is awesome, thanks for putting it together.  Thanks also to UntilThen, for the details on how to not blow up a Glenn with too many amperes.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Very well done brother!
> I love that you just called it "The Glenn"
> 
> I even got a little chuckle from this....great stuff.


Hi M0.
Watched your presentation - excellent!
Having had tube amps that were sensitive to heat build up and advised not to let them run more than 8 hours at a time, I appreciate that the GOTL can run all day long without any worries of overheating.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> I have an audio rack with a spacing of 9.5" between the shelves (not adjustable). This is a tight fit for the larger tubes, especially with adapters. If you plan on frequent tube changes might be best to have the tube amp on the top shelf of the rack.
> Then there is the question of ventilation. I solved it with a fan mounted on the underside of the shelf above, drawing away the air from the amp. In any case, you need good ventilation.


My shelves will be adjustable! Just trying to plan shelf configuration between now and until the rack delivers in a week or two...



Monsterzero said:


> Firstly, my shirt was my reward for donating to the Nepal earthquake relief fund a few years back. Good shirt for a good cause.
> 
> Yes my rack is adjustable. I had to take the entire thing apart to accommodate for tube rolling on my GOTL,as well as my Lampizat0r TRP DAC.
> 
> ...


How high is your rack?  Mine will be almost 5 feet, which rules out placing anything on top...
Also, I plan on placing way more crap than you, so configuring the shelves will be challenging. Will have to figure out if 17" can be allocated (taking into account that my 6EL3N will live there, just above or just below the GOTL)  

I will research separately wood blocks. In last CanJam SoCal 2019 (or was it RMAF 2018 ?) I saw a company that sells really cool looking butcher blocks! And they were quite affordable, too...  Never heard of sorbethane, and thought the wood itself helps cut down on vibrations.


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 27, 2019)

Zachik said:


> How high is your rack?


 Nearly 64" from floor to top. It sits on four lockable wheels for easy access to the rear,so effective height is a bit less to account for the wheels.



Zachik said:


> Never heard of sorbethane, and thought the wood itself helps cut down on vibrations.


 From my understanding each layer adds more vibration iso. I have a layer of sorbathane on the bottom,then the wood,then another layer of sorbathane on top. So triple layer of iso.

Eliminating vibration def helps with the SQ. Yes,theyre products on the market to help with minimizing vibration. I decided to buy sorbethane,which is relatively inexpensive and create my own,so I had more cash to blow on tubes.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Nearly 64" from floor to top. It sits on four lockable wheels for easy access to the rear,so effective height is a bit less to account for the wheels.
> 
> From my understanding each layer adds more vibration iso. I have a layer of sorbathane on the bottom,then the wood,then another layer of sorbathane on top. So triple layer of iso.
> 
> Eliminating vibration def helps with the SQ. Yes,theyre products on the market to help with minimizing vibration. I decided to buy sorbethane,which is relatively inexpensive and create my own,so I had more cash to blow on tubes.


Isolation feet is a huge topic with many different views.
The only thing I am certain of is that spiked feet for speakers on hardwood floors makes a difference. I once owned floor standing Mirage M3Si speakers at 135 lbs each, and the difference with spiked feet was remarkable.
On the other hand, technology marches forward, and it could be that these spikes aren't needed with modern speakers.
There is a company that sells all kinds of ancillary audio stuff, and looking through what they have can give you an idea of what is available. They have sorbothane self stick sheets and many different isolation products.
https://www.audioadvisor.com/
(This is not an endorsement, but only for informational purposes - I have no personal experience with them)


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> https://www.audioadvisor.com/
> (This is not an endorsement, but only for informational purposes - I have no personal experience with them)



I somehow ended up on Audioadvisor's mailing list,although I have never purchased anything directly from them.
Theyre customer service is good,but I have found most of their products cheaper elsewhere. Just my .02


----------



## mordy

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SORBOTHANE...984580?hash=item5632a6e004:g:ptgAAOSwEeFU6qgv


----------



## UntilThen

My current rack is not ideal but it's neat. Until Berlin arrives, it would do for now. Glass does heat up so glass rack are not so ideal in my opinion. Solid wood or the rack I've in Sydney is probably better. Also if there's room, I would rather go sideways than up.


----------



## UntilThen

In a moment of madness, I almost pick up a mint condition Woo Audio WA22 for a dirt cheap price - with tubes ! Then I switch from Studio Six to GOTL and I wonder why I bother. GOTL projects musical notes a bit rounder at the edges compared to Studio Six. GOTL is also lusher and has a nice bloom to it's tone. This is in comparison to the more precise tone of Studio Six. GOTL midrange is a killer and vocals will have you listening with mouth agape. GOTL mid-bass has the Berocca bounce. 

GOTL with my Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x GE 6bx7gt is as quiet as Studio Six. It's no wonder I like this combo the best. Besides sounding golden, it's ultra quiet.

So in another point in time in my life I would certainly have sprint for this WA22 but my amps are now at a stage where even the Woo Audio WA22 does not tempt me anymore. Look at the dirt cheap price. AUD$1700 with tubes.
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/to...ith-extra-tubes/?tab=comments#comment-4389016


----------



## UntilThen

At the expanse of posting this photo again, I will. Sometimes I wish I had kept the Eikon and Atticus. They look so good with my GOTL here. They are like super models !


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> At the expanse of posting this photo again, I will. Sometimes I wish I had kept the Eikon and Atticus. They look so good with my GOTL here. They are like super models !


As good as the A&E are,once you get ears on the VC you wont look back. Truly.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> As good as the A&E are,once you get ears on the VC you wont look back. Truly.



Yes the intent is to have VC and VO flanking GOTL for a Ferrari super model photo shoot - preferably in Oahu Hawaii.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Yes the intent is to have VC and VO flanking GOTL for a Ferrari super model photo shoot - preferably in Oahu Hawaii.


 Arent the Cook Islands closer to you than Hawaii?
I had a chance to go years ago,but I opted not to. Kicking myself for that one. There or the Maldives would be my choice for a super headphone photo shoot.


----------



## UntilThen

The reason I haven't pull the trigger on the VC is because the sane part of me says to take it easy. Verite Open and Studio Six purchase within a month has already outdone my 2017 record of Yggdrasil, Ragnarok, HD800 and LCD-2f purchase all within a month. 

So Santa says to me. 'You're not going to get everything within one Christmas. I can't shove all of it down the fire place !'

Besides Berlin build commence in January 2020.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Arent the Cook Islands closer to you than Hawaii?
> I had a chance to go years ago,but I opted not to. Kicking myself for that one. There or the Maldives would be my choice for a super headphone photo shoot.



In 2010, I went to Oahu Hawaii with my wife. It's the most magical 3 days for us. It's an all expense paid holiday provided by her bank. On the 19th floor of Sheraton Waikiki, Diamond Head, with 2 king size beds, the view is similar to this at night. I want to go back again for the photo shoot.


----------



## UntilThen

2 weeks later after the Hawaii trip, I took my family to Japan for a 13 days holiday. Hawaii and Japan are the most beautiful place in my eyes. Not even Taiwan's trip last year can outdo that. So a trip to Malaysia and Spore next year to visit Sam and listen to his mother lode GEL3N ! and 2021 to Germany. Then it's just chilling back in Australia with my amps, amps and more amps.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> The reason I haven't pull the trigger on the VC is because the sane part of me says to take it easy. Verite Open and Studio Six purchase within a month has already outdone my 2017 record of Yggdrasil, Ragnarok, HD800 and LCD-2f purchase all within a month.
> 
> So Santa says to me. 'You're not going to get everything within one Christmas. I can't shove all of it down the fire place !'



I know this feeling.  After Aeolus and GOTL, Santa is not getting anywhere near me.  And I want to buy everything Monsterzero has listed in the sales forum, but he won't trade my kidney for it


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> I know this feeling.  After Aeolus and GOTL, Santa is not getting anywhere near me.  And I want to buy everything Monsterzero has listed in the sales forum, but he won't trade my kidney for it



Should be a piece of cake for you to convert to a neurosurgeon. Then you can operate on his brain in exchange for his Lampizator DAC.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Glenn video is up. Hope this helps those waiting for your build to be completed to keep up with this thread. Enjoy.




Thanks Monster for the nice review on the GOTL.  You had my lady spell bound


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Should be a piece of cake for you to convert to a neurosurgeon. Then you can operate on his brain in exchange for his Lampizator DAC.



Seems like a fair deal to me.


----------



## GDuss

2359glenn said:


> Thanks Monster for the nice review on the GOTL.  You had my lady spell bound



I was thinking that when my lady asks me why I keep saying the name Glenn in my sleep, I can show her this video and she will get it.


----------



## whirlwind

cdanguyen08 said:


> @whirlwind I was wondering what your build was for your GEL3N? And anything you would change? I'm also looking to do the standard build. If ya want me to PM you instead I most certainly can. Thank ya for your time.




Hey, welcome to the thread. My GEL3N is the small chassis and not the larger chassis. Glenn has to use larger chassis if you want to power speakers.....he has to cram a lot of stuff in there, but he can cram alot of stuff in a small bag!  

I have what would be the basic EL3N amp...I did have an extra set of inputs put on mine.

Please feel free to pm if you wish, I will answer anything I can.

This amp has not really been an amp to tube roll in for me...that was actually a great beauty of it and still is...but now with some killer adapters  & sockets...this amp can use some really nice tubes.
Using four EL3N tubes is one of my favorite sounds.  Using some of these other power tubes takes the amp to another level, no doubt as it gives options and for what it is worth all of the pentodes that I
have tried so far...I have liked.

Listening to this now...LCD-3 pre-fazor....The new Black Keys album and Peter Green - Reaching For The Cold 100
At times you think it can not ever get any better than this....but then you realize that it can


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Thanks Monster for the nice review on the GOTL.  You had my lady spell bound



Ok I take back what I said to Monster that he should take off that T-Shirt because I have trademark on it. He SHOULDN'T !!!

Just realise this is a family thread.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 27, 2019)

Joe, I look at your Cossor 53ku and I want to use it again now. What a shape !!!


----------



## cdanguyen08

whirlwind said:


> Hey, welcome to the thread. My GEL3N is the small chassis and not the larger chassis. Glenn has to use larger chassis if you want to power speakers.....he has to cram a lot of stuff in there, but he can cram alot of stuff in a small bag!
> 
> I have what would be the basic EL3N amp...I did have an extra set of inputs put on mine.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your time! sent ya a PM. Looks beautiful!!


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Thanks Monster for the nice review on the GOTL.  You had my lady spell bound



Youre welcome,and tell your lady 'Thank you"


----------



## cdanguyen08

UntilThen said:


> 2 weeks later after the Hawaii trip, I took my family to Japan for a 13 days holiday. Hawaii and Japan are the most beautiful place in my eyes. Not even Taiwan's trip last year can outdo that. So a trip to Malaysia and Spore next year to visit Sam and listen to his mother lode GEL3N ! and 2021 to Germany. Then it's just chilling back in Australia with my amps, amps and more amps.


How I miss Japan. After living there for 3 years, it took me a month to readjust coming home to the states. Singapore was great melting pot! Soo much good food.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Joe, I look at your Cossor 53ku and I want to use it again now. What a shape !!!



Yeah..."Fat" is a good name for it...just like me


----------



## UntilThen

cdanguyen08 said:


> How I miss Japan. After living there for 3 years, it took me a month to readjust coming home to the states. Singapore was great melting pot! Soo much good food.



I live the 1st half of my life in Spore and I've live the other half of my life in Sydney. I feel like I'm already in Utopia.   All I need now is more audio gear addiction.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Yeah..."Fat" is a good name for it...just like me



Ha! No wonder you like bass! Just kidding. I ain't that slim myself too but I'm working on it with twice weekly gym, badminton, tennis and cycling. Where do I find time for listening to music, I don't know.  But I do! I use my audio gear so much, it's worth it 100%.


----------



## UntilThen

I have 2 rectifiers running here. The Cossor 53ku fat boy and the Crystal Ball X123 Super fat boy. The sound is in-credible !!!


----------



## Monsterzero

I really liked my time in Singapore. Great shopping malls,clean streets,little traffic,and the governments no nonsense approach to things,but g'damn is it expensive!


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I really liked my time in Singapore. Great shopping malls,clean streets,little traffic,and the governments no nonsense approach to things,but g'damn is it expensive!



Did you see my footprints there? I live there from birth to 31 years of age. Sentosa used to be called UntilThen until I left.

Jokes aside, I have very fond memories of that island paradise. I know every nooks and corners.


----------



## UntilThen

Now they hold CamJams there and they don't even hold CamJams in Sydney. How sad.


----------



## UntilThen

I was never into Head-Fi or HiFi in Singapore. Buying a house and car emptied my wallet !!! There's nothing left. Not even a dime left to buy a earpod.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I really liked my time in Singapore. Great shopping malls,clean streets,little traffic,and the governments no nonsense approach to things,but g'damn is it expensive!



The price that you pay for paradise.
 A no nonsense approach to government...I can't even imagine!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I used your lighter fluid method @JazzVinyl to remove the horrible goo from my new tubes, worked like a charm, thanks!


 

I will be getting some German makes of these tubes soon from RFT, AEG, Valvo.

@Deyan with ~6mm of space between the glass of the tubes side-by-side, the measurement from center pin to center pin of the B5 base is ~50mm.


----------



## UntilThen

I use this glue remover. Works very well. No mess.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I use this glue remover. Works very well. No mess.



Thanks!  I will order a tube.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks! I will order a tube.



After you apply the glue remover, you wrap a tissue over it and leave it for a while. The glue will come off the tube and base and it will form lumps and stick to the tissue. Then it's just wiping it off. I had a tube where the seller use glue so liberally on it, it's a mess but the glue remover gets rid of it completely.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 27, 2019)

@L0rdGwyn are you planning on the 4 volt MH 4 tubes as your drivers in the new amp? The one you've just shown looks good.

Tubes are very expensive and rare. Similar to hunting for my EL11 and EL12 spez now.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> After you apply the glue remover, you wrap a tissue over it and leave it for a while. The glue will come off the tube and base and it will form lumps and stick to the tissue. Then it's just wiping it off. I had a tube where the seller use glue so liberally on it, it's a mess but the glue remover gets rid of it completely.



Fantastic, sounds like a great product.  Can think of more than a few times I could have used something like this.



UntilThen said:


> @L0rdGwyn are you planning on the 4 volt MH 4 tubes as your drivers in the new amp? The one you've just shown looks good.



That's the plan, a pair of octal sockets for 6J5 and a pair of B5 sockets for this 4V/1A family of tubes.  You will only find B5 sockets on customized and DIY projects from my search, so there's little information on them in contemporary amplifiers.  It is a bit of a gamble, but I'm convinced they will sound wonderful.  You can't go wrong with Marconi-Osram and there are many other European makes, like the beautiful Philips pair that @2359glenn purchased.

Deyan is building me a special adapter so that these might be usable in the GOTL for a test run.  Unsure of what he power tubes will be in this amplifier yet, I am open to suggestions


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Using some of these other power tubes takes the amp to another level


Do tell more!  Which tubes would elevate the GEL3N to a next level?!
My plan is to use EL3N tubes with my upcoming 6EL3N amp, but I would entertain a "permanent roll" (as in, roll other tubes, once, and just leave them there!) if indeed it sounds better than EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> That's the plan, a pair of octal sockets for 6J5 and a pair of B5 sockets for this 4V/1A family of tubes. You will only find B5 sockets on customized and DIY projects from my search, so there's little information on them in contemporary amplifiers. It is a bit of a gamble, but I'm convinced they will sound wonderful. You can't go wrong with Marconi-Osram and there are many other European makes, like the beautiful Philips pair that @2359glenn purchased.
> 
> Deyan is building me a special adapter so that these might be usable in the GOTL for a test run. Unsure of what he power tubes will be in this amplifier yet, I am open to suggestions



So it's 2 sets of driver sockets to be use either or? Perhaps have plastic caps to cover it when not in used so it will look good. 

For power tubes, based on someone who has experimented and came out preferring these 3 power tubes:-

GEC KT66
GEC KT88/TT21
Telefunken EL12 spez

The GEC TT21 is similar to the GEC KT88 but with an anode cap. This guy thinks it better sounding than the GEC KT88.

Here's a badass picture of GEC TT21


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Do tell more!  Which tubes would elevate the GEL3N to a next level?!
> My plan is to use EL3N tubes with my upcoming 6EL3N amp, but I would entertain a "permanent roll" (as in, roll other tubes, once, and just leave them there!) if indeed it sounds better than EL3N.



You might want to consider using EL34 for the power tubes position. i.e. with the correct sockets for it. Then you won't need adapters. So besides EL34, you could use a whole bunch of other power tubes such as 6V6, 6L6, 5881, KT66, etc. but talk to Glenn if you're going this route - perhaps switch to adjust bias for the different power tube types.

Then again instead of EL3N as drivers, perhaps use GEC L63 or 6J5 as drivers. 

Now I've put you back on the drawing board but it's worth reconsidering now before the build gets to the procurement of BOM (Bill of materials) stage.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> So it's 2 sets of driver sockets to be use either or? Perhaps have plastic caps to cover it when not in used so it will look good.



Oooo I like this idea, stealth sockets.  But yes, to be used either or, unless mad scientist Glenn has some keen way to utilize two drivers per channel.



UntilThen said:


> For power tubes, based on someone who has experimented and came out preferring these 3 power tubes:-
> 
> GEC KT66
> GEC KT88/TT21
> ...



The KT66/KT77/KT88 are very appealing, near the top of the list, I only wonder about future availability.  But that TT21, what a beast!  My only concern with the anode caps are my two lovely cats...fried feline is not a delicacy in Ohio.


----------



## UntilThen

The problem with having a customised amp to handle a variety of power tubes is that it can't be optimised for all. So it's best to pick one type and then have it optimised for it. That is the reason I'm just focus on Telefunken EL12 spez. Well at least in my limited understanding but Glenn may be able to do something about that I'm sure.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn, do you think this cute little fellow can be use interchangeably with EL11 as drivers in Berlin? 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TELEFUN...m1ca983b1b4:g:8IgAAOSwq1JZIsWZ&frcectupt=true


----------



## UntilThen

Don't know if there are any Leonard Cohen's fans here but when I listen to this song on Tidal HiFi with Verite and GOTL, I know why Leonard was inducted into Canadian Music Hall of Fame.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn, do you think this cute little fellow can be use interchangeably with EL11 as drivers in Berlin?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TELEFUN...m1ca983b1b4:g:8IgAAOSwq1JZIsWZ&frcectupt=true



Looks like the same pinout it should work.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> The problem with having a customised amp to handle a variety of power tubes is that it can't be optimised for all. So it's best to pick one type and then have it optimised for it. That is the reason I'm just focus on Telefunken EL12 spez. Well at least in my limited understanding but Glenn may be able to do something about that I'm sure.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2040#post-15189914


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Looks like the same pinout it should work.



Woohoo. I will try a pair.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Leftside. Forgot that post from Glenn. So he does have a way to optimised all those power tubes, so all's good.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Looks like the same pinout it should work.



One for US$99 ! That's highway robbery.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I used your lighter fluid method @JazzVinyl to remove the horrible goo from my new tubes, worked like a charm, thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am now bidding on 5 GEC MH4 tubes.
Maybe because I like the way the way GEC L63 sounds or I am crazy.
Did get the B5 sockets from Korea look nice.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> I am now bidding on 5 GEC MH4 tubes.
> Maybe because I like the way the way GEC L63 sounds or I am crazy.
> Did get the B5 sockets from Korea look nice.



I know the auction, I am watching as well, but I will not interfere  go for it Glenn.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 27, 2019)

leftside said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2040#post-15189914



I like this flexible approach, I think I will continue my copycat ways and pencil this in for now.  6J5 & MH4 inputs, cathode bias switch for beam tetrode or pentode outputs.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn you might as well sprint for the pair of minty Marconi MH4. Such a beautiful pair and also a beautiful price.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn you might as well sprint for the pair of minty Marconi MH4. Such a beautiful pair and also a beautiful price.



I have been in contact with that seller to purchase them but was waiting for some tubes to sell, you have forced my hand!


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn you might as well sprint for the pair of minty Marconi MH4. Such a beautiful pair and also a beautiful price.



Not that beautiful price if we are looking at the same pair.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have been in contact with that seller to purchase them but was waiting for some tubes to sell, you have forced my hand!



Go for it. Fortunately I'm not in the market for these tubes otherwise I'll sell the neighbour's felines for those.



2359glenn said:


> Not that beautiful price if we are looking at the same pair.



What I mean is a beautifully expensive price but no more so than a pair of GEC 6as7g.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 27, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Go for it. Fortunately I'm not in the market for these tubes otherwise I'll sell the neighbour's felines for those.



It is done.  Yes, expensive, but true NIB and the seller tested them for me and they are true NOS.

He is a very knowledgeable Frenchman who builds many amplifiers himself, has recommended to me several pre-war tubes.

Glenn, you will get a much better deal on the set of five I am sure.  If not, I have another source I can share.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> It is done.  Yes, expensive, but true NIB and the seller tested them for me and they are NOS testing.
> 
> He is a very knowledgeable Frenchman who builds many amplifiers himself, has recommended to me several pre-war tubes.
> 
> Glenn, you will get a much better deal on the set of five I am sure.  If not, I have another source I can share.



Wow even though I won't be using the MH4, I'm very happy for you. Those could be the last pair of Marconi MH4 in this whole universe. In 10 years time the price will be 10 fold or priceless. Even the boxes are MINT.


----------



## UntilThen

I can imagine a SET amp using those Marconi MH4 and a pair of gorgeous Marconi KT66 power tubes with an anodised coloured chassis, it will be more beautiful than the Sennheiser HE-1.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Wow even though I won't be using the MH4, I'm very happy for you. Those could be the last pair of Marconi MH4 in this whole universe. In 10 years time the price will be 10 fold or priceless. Even the boxes are MINT.



Thank you, they are beautiful tubes.  Any others I have seen like them are very corroded.  I will take them out once a year on my birthday, listen for an hour, then put them back into cryogenic sleep.



UntilThen said:


> I can imagine a SET amp using those Marconi MH4 and a pair of gorgeous Marconi KT66 power tubes with an anodised coloured chassis, it will be more beautiful than the Sennheiser HE-1.



If you don't stop I will need my bib.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

These are next.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> If you don't stop I will need my bib.



I spy a pair of KT66 in original boxes. I think I need the bib too. Fortunately I stay with just 3 pairs of Telefunken EL12 spez and 1 pair of Tesla EL12 spez.

There will be an award for the best looking Glenn amp next September. It's going to be hard to pick a winner.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> It is done.  Yes, expensive, but true NIB and the seller tested them for me and they are true NOS.
> 
> He is a very knowledgeable Frenchman who builds many amplifiers himself, has recommended to me several pre-war tubes.
> 
> Glenn, you will get a much better deal on the set of five I am sure.  If not, I have another source I can share.



Pretty tubes
I can't wait to start playing with the MH4


----------



## Monsterzero

Speaking of GEC KT66s,if anyone has a pair theyre willing to part with,or knows of a source please let me know.


----------



## UntilThen

Now you know why I went with Telefunken EL11 and EL12 spez.  

Cheap by comparison.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Now you know why I went with Telefunken EL11 and EL12 spez.
> 
> Cheap by comparison.


 Yeah I know. Theyre for my DAC,not my amp....


----------



## UntilThen

It's time to do a photo shoot of all my EL tubes now that I have it all.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah I know. Theyre for my DAC,not my amp....



The Lampizator thrives on good KT66 too. You're now in expensive tubes territory. Just short of good 300b tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 27, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Pretty tubes
> I can't wait to start playing with the MH4



When it comes time to build my amp Glenn, I will send you some of my MH4/REN904 tubes to try, if you don't have them already.  Or once you convert your preamp.


----------



## Monsterzero

Theres something seriously magical happening with the tube roll I used in my video from last night and the VC. Its so mindblowingly good. The GZ34/Hitachi 6SN7GT/6BX7 combo was good,but the GEC U18/20 and Ken Rad just bring out loud "WOW" moments.

Funny thing is,the Ken Rad never really wow'd me in other combos on other headphones,but with the VC and GEC its insanely spectacular.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> You might want to consider using EL34 for the power tubes position. i.e. with the correct sockets for it. Then you won't need adapters. So besides EL34, you could use a whole bunch of other power tubes such as 6V6, 6L6, 5881, KT66, etc. but talk to Glenn if you're going this route - perhaps switch to adjust bias for the different power tube types.
> 
> Then again instead of EL3N as drivers, perhaps use GEC L63 or 6J5 as drivers.
> 
> *Now I've put you back on the drawing board* but it's worth reconsidering now before the build gets to the procurement of BOM (Bill of materials) stage.



Nah. I still want the EL3N sockets.
I will seriously consider adapters and different tubes, when @whirlwind Joe reveals which tubes he believes take his EL3N amp to the next level


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> One for US$99 ! That's highway robbery.


How is that any different from $700 power cords, $900 USB cables, etc.?!


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> How is that any different from $700 power cords, $900 USB cables, etc.?!



Because it's a small button mushroom...


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> How is that any different from $700 power cords, $900 USB cables, etc.?!


 @Gopher offered to let me demo a USB cable that supposedly increases the SQ significantly. He even showed me IMs he has received from other folks who have the TRP and this cable(forget the name) I said sure,lemme try it....BTW how much is it?

I think he said it was around $700.00. I changed my mind about demo'ing it. Fred has some seriously nice gear he represents,but at this point I'd rather remain ignorant.


----------



## Deyan

L0rdGwyn said:


> I used your lighter fluid method @JazzVinyl to remove the horrible goo from my new tubes, worked like a charm, thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok.....um I'll work around that.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 27, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Nah. I still want the EL3N sockets.
> I will seriously consider adapters and different tubes, when @whirlwind Joe reveals which tubes he believes take his EL3N amp to the next level



Good. A man who knows what he wants will be successful like Steve Jobs.

Steve knows what he wants. He wants an apple not an orange.


----------



## DecentLevi

Recent conversations here about power cables has me interested. I have the top Furman model power conditioner (IT Reference 15i worth $2,700 which I got a great deal on a few months back), so I thought I may as well get the best out of it's pure power signal - or at least close to it. I'm currently using just generic black universal power cables, just 2x thick gauge. And this is the Furman unit I have, and although I've done only a brief A/B, I noticed a substantial improvement, with the Euforia amp anyway. 
 

UT's idea of the Isotek Evo3 Premier sounded good, but I can't find any with a North American plug type. So I'm comparing between the Stratus 7 and the custom cable from this custom   Canuck Audio member. I'll ask him how they compare but I can guess he'll only recommend his own.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> UT's idea of the Isotek Evo3 Premier sounded good



The Evo3 Premier is a rather bulky cable but most good cables are. You're on the right track DL. Someday I'll have a power conditioner.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Theres something seriously magical happening with the tube roll I used in my video from last night and the VC. Its so mindblowingly good. The GZ34/Hitachi 6SN7GT/6BX7 combo was good,but the GEC U18/20 and Ken Rad just bring out loud "WOW" moments.
> 
> Funny thing is,the Ken Rad never really wow'd me in other combos on other headphones,but with the VC and GEC its insanely spectacular.



Once you hit a nice combo, you're set. I've a few nice combo on the Studio Six and GOTL. Presently using:-

Brimar 6sn7gt black glass
2 x Brimar 6V6gt black glass
Mullard OB2
Cossor 53ku

On GOTL it's my signature combo:-

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
6 x GE 6bx7gt


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Once you hit a nice combo, you're set. I've a few nice combo on the Studio Six and GOTL. Presently using:-
> 
> Brimar 6sn7gt black glass
> 2 x Brimar 6V6gt black glass
> ...



Its something @gibosi and others taught me early on. Its not about a single tube. Its all about a combination of tubes...and not all combos work for all systems,or even for all headphones.
I try to explain tube rolling to my wife(lol)and the analogy I use is tube rolling is like cooking. Its all about the combination of spices and just the right amount otherwise you will screw up the dish.  And just because Tumeric tastes good in the right amount in one dish,it can entirely ruin another.

This roll in the VC is a dish from the gods.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Its something @gibosi and others taught me early on. Its not about a single tube. Its all about a combination of tubes...and not all combos work for all systems,or even for all headphones.
> I try to explain tube rolling to my wife(lol)and the analogy I use is tube rolling is like cooking. Its all about the combination of spices and just the right amount otherwise you will screw up the dish.  And just because Tumeric tastes good in the right amount in one dish,it can entirely ruin another.
> 
> This roll in the VC is a dish from the gods.



Absolutely. The amp doesn't function on just one tube. It's the whole combo with your headphone and dac. Then it's your own ears - aka preference. Hence if anyone comes on here and ask for a best combo, my answer is here's a general recommendation but you've to figure it out for yourself. Not knowing what everyone listens to, it's hard to recommend a definitive combination.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 27, 2019)

I'm waiting for Ken Jie to get his GOTL. We have had so many conversations about it. He has amassed a lot of very good tubes. Monster you make a very good point in your video. GOTL can sound very good with cheap tubes but if your pocket can stretch it, better tubes will sound better - kind of stating the obvious.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> at this point I'd rather remain ignorant.


I hear you brother! Totally agree.


----------



## UntilThen

I agree I will not spend $700 on a USB cable. Even if it changes colour every 5 secs.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> A man who knows what he wants will be successful like Steve Jobs.


Sometimes - I do. Most of the time - I am clueless as to what I want... 
I guess that is the difference between me and Steve Jobs    (that and a few Billions)


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Sometimes - I do. Most of the time - I am clueless as to what I want...
> I guess that is the difference between me and Steve Jobs    (that and a few Billions)



When you have nothing to lose, then it's easy to take risk. Steve has this to say about starting Apple:-

_That’s why we started Apple, we said you know, we have absolutely nothing to lose. I was 20 years old at the time, Woz was 24-25, so we have nothing to lose. We have no families, no children, no houses. Woz had an old car. I had a Volkswagen van, I mean, all we were going to lose is our cars and the shirts off our back._

That's what I tell myself about Berlin. If it fails, I still have Studio Six and GOTL. If it is a success, I'll sell it to Sennheiser for a princely sum and they can call it HE-2.


----------



## Monsterzero

Gentlemen,im bidding on this rectifier,kindly do not up bid. Thanks

https://www.ebay.com/itm/362761309152?_trksid=p2471758.m4704


----------



## UntilThen

All yours. Good luck. Just know that the guide is broken so be careful how you insert it.


----------



## Monsterzero

Yup,I noticed that...I will PM you.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 28, 2019)

.


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 28, 2019)

dbl post


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 28, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> It is done.  Yes, expensive, but true NIB and the seller tested them for me and they are true NOS.
> 
> He is a very knowledgeable Frenchman who builds many amplifiers himself, has recommended to me several pre-war tubes.
> 
> Glenn, you will get a much better deal on the set of five I am sure.  If not, I have another source I can share.



 
His majesty Lord Gwynn hath found his tubes and they look truly marvelous.

Here's to hoping they sound more like this:




and not this:
  or this:


----------



## UntilThen

It's more like this. Eva sings so beautifully. I have her 4 LPs album.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> I like this flexible approach, I think I will continue my copycat ways and pencil this in for now.  6J5 & MH4 inputs, cathode bias switch for beam tetrode or pentode outputs.



Yeah, this is the approach that is in my mind also.....I am much leaning towards this


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Gentlemen,im bidding on this rectifier,kindly do not up bid. Thanks
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/362761309152?_trksid=p2471758.m4704




Good luck, hope you get it.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> When it comes time to build my amp Glenn, I will send you some of my MH4/REN904 tubes to try, if you don't have them already.  Or once you convert your preamp.



From looking at pictures the ones that you can see the internals they all are very different. The sound has to be very different too.
This is a problem means have to buy them all to find the best ones.
Just hoping they are not noisy like many of the #26 and #27s I used. Had to go through dozens of tubes to find quiet ones.
The #26 is supposed to be the best sounding preamp tube. But want to change to the MH4 before one goes bad and I have to go through that again.
This is why I switched the #27s in my headphone amp to L63. The #27s had many hours on them over the last 12 years.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Yup,I noticed that...I will PM you.



Get one of these and put it on the tube.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 28, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Do tell more!  Which tubes would elevate the GEL3N to a next level?!
> My plan is to use EL3N tubes with my upcoming 6EL3N amp, but I would entertain a "permanent roll" (as in, roll other tubes, once, and just leave them there!) if indeed it sounds better than EL3N.




I have never rolled tubes in the EL3N amp until now, because I did not even know there were adapters to do so.
So any tubes that you roll in the amp that sound good take the amp to another level as you have more options.

Rolling EL8 drivers in this amp did not work out well...but rolling in power tubes works very, very well.
I have basiscally been playing with more expensive tubes and they sound wonderful...then again they are more expensive than the EL3N.
The EL3N is king for price/performance ratio...and it sounds great. Rolling these other tubes sound great also, but it is like buying pairs of GEC 6AS7G for the GOTL
The sound is wonderful, but the price not so much.

I am pretty much at the point that I know I love the Mullard sound and the GEC sound and these are the tubes that I will be using in my next amp as power tubes, and maybe even driver tubes...I need to get with Glenn on the driver tube and listen to his expertise on what he thinks will sound good and what my options may be.
This is also why I am much interested in @leftsides idea of an amp like this.

I am totally sold on the sound of EL34/EL37 power tubes and I will have more tubes coming to try.
The wonderful thing about an amp that can use the EL34/KT66/KT77 is that you will always be able to get tubes for it as they still make these tubes in the reissue form.
Just beware that if you are going to use some of the best tubes from EL34/KT66/EL37/KT77 that you are going to dump a load of money in these tubes.

This is where the plain EL3N amp comes in...great sound no need to tube roll and you can buy enough tubes for life by the time you buy a few sets
of these more expensive tubes.

I never could figure out why Glenn did not sell more of these amps....my guess would be that people wanted to roll tubes....well now they can.
Pretty cool to get a transformer coupled amp that you can roll tubes in.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I have never rolled tubes in the EL3N amp until now, because I did not even know there were adapters to do so.
> So any tubes that you roll in the amp that sound good take the amp to another level as you have more options.
> 
> Rolling EL8 drivers in this amp did not work out well...but rolling in power tubes works very, very well.
> ...





L0rdGwyn said:


> Thank you, they are beautiful tubes.  Any others I have seen like them are very corroded.  I will take them out once a year on my birthday, listen for an hour, then put them back into cryogenic sleep.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't stop I will need my bib.





L0rdGwyn said:


> It is done.  Yes, expensive, but true NIB and the seller tested them for me and they are true NOS.
> 
> He is a very knowledgeable Frenchman who builds many amplifiers himself, has recommended to me several pre-war tubes.
> 
> Glenn, you will get a much better deal on the set of five I am sure.  If not, I have another source I can share.



These look like nice sockets for your future amp if you wont to go with the Korean ones. Allot cheaper I would have bought these if I seen them first.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/B4-B5-4-5-...196423?hash=item1a44f721c7:g:GfoAAOSwxp9W7H~2


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> These look like nice sockets for your future amp if you wont to go with the Korean ones. Allot cheaper I would have bought these if I seen them first.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/B4-B5-4-5-...196423?hash=item1a44f721c7:g:GfoAAOSwxp9W7H~2



Nah after spending so much on those tubes, why skimmed on cheap sockets.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> These look like nice sockets for your future amp if you wont to go with the Korean ones. Allot cheaper I would have bought these if I seen them first.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/B4-B5-4-5-...196423?hash=item1a44f721c7:g:GfoAAOSwxp9W7H~2



They do look nice, I'll think it over.  It will be something of a statement amp, so I probably would shell out the big bucks for the Korean sockets.  But the black might look nice depending on the color of the chassis.



2359glenn said:


> From looking at pictures the ones that you can see the internals they all are very different. The sound has to be very different too.
> This is a problem means have to buy them all to find the best ones.
> Just hoping they are not noisy like many of the #26 and #27s I used. Had to go through dozens of tubes to find quiet ones.
> The #26 is supposed to be the best sounding preamp tube. But want to change to the MH4 before one goes bad and I have to go through that again.
> This is why I switched the #27s in my headphone amp to L63. The #27s had many hours on them over the last 12 years.



My thoughts exactly, gotta try them all!  Within reason.  Hopefully they are not noisy, but I have faith in the MOV tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Here's your chance to buy the Studio Six at a very reasonable price. That's an incredible price. Cheaper than what I paid for mine.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/alo-studio-six.905872/


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> I have never rolled tubes in the EL3N amp until now, because I did not even know there were adapters to do so.
> So any tubes that you roll in the amp that sound good take the amp to another level as you have more options.
> 
> Rolling EL8 drivers in this amp did not work out well...but rolling in power tubes works very, very well.
> ...



Thanks Joe for the very detailed answer.
My game plan is still to go forward with 6 x EL3N sockets, and get some EL3N backups, especially since they're cheap.
Joe, as you're auditioning the EL34, EL37 and any other tube that is electrically compatible (with adapter) - *please* report back. That would be a great public service, and I might try some at some point in the future...


----------



## GDuss

This is an interesting review of some vintage McIntosh tube amps (and a tuner too)

https://positive-feedback.com/Issue77/vintage_mcintosh_experience.htm

Apologies if this has been posted before, I did a search and didn't see it.  Apologies also for how much time out of your day this is going to kill.  It's long.  You could just look at the photos though. Still interesting.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Thanks Joe for the very detailed answer.
> My game plan is still to go forward with 6 x EL3N sockets, and get some EL3N backups, especially since they're cheap.
> Joe, as you're auditioning the EL34, EL37 and any other tube that is electrically compatible (with adapter) - *please* report back. That would be a great public service, and I might try some at some point in the future...



Will do.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> This is an interesting review of some vintage McIntosh tube amps (and a tuner too)
> 
> https://positive-feedback.com/Issue77/vintage_mcintosh_experience.htm
> 
> Apologies if this has been posted before, I did a search and didn't see it.  Apologies also for how much time out of your day this is going to kill.  It's long.  You could just look at the photos though. Still interesting.



I did fall in love with vintage gear and bought 5 vintage amps within 2 months. If I didn't check myself, would have gone far ahead. I've since sold 2, leaving 3. Vintage tube amps are appealing, especially McIntosh but if they are not in a good condition, servicing it can cost. I'm about to send my Sansui AU-Alpha 907MR to Skippy my Sansui guru for a full restoration.


----------



## 2359glenn

McIntosh are great amplifiers I should have went there to work when I lived in Upstate New York.
At 18 years old working at Harman Kardon was unbelievable to me. McIntosh was the competition they are still in New York
Making great amps even tube .While Harman Kardon moved to China making junk now.


----------



## UntilThen

But if you had gone to McIntosh, we wouldn't have you here now with Glenn Studio . It's McIntosh's lost !


----------



## UntilThen

I don't have a McIntosh. I only have this humble Sony STR-7035 with Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 in the doggie's kennel. He's pretty happy because his tail is wagging.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> But if you had gone to McIntosh, we wouldn't have you here now with Glenn Studio . It's McIntosh's lost !



That's what I was thinking.  McIntosh's loss, our gain!


----------



## UntilThen

I had a good laugh at TonyNewman's joke in Verite's thread.

_I got marched out of there in disgrace after suggesting the 845 20wpc SET amp. All the other Glenn owners kicked tubes in my face and banished me ☠_


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> McIntosh are great amplifiers I should have went there to work when I lived in Upstate New York.
> At 18 years old working at Harman Kardon was unbelievable to me. McIntosh was the competition they are still in New York
> Making great amps even tube .While Harman Kardon moved to China making junk now.



Do you use much of what you learned at HK when designing your amps, Glenn?  Or did you already have much of that knowledge before working there?


----------



## 2359glenn

I learned allot about designing SS amps Don't use that much anymore I think tubes have better SQ.


----------



## Monsterzero

Has anyone tried upgrading the stock fuse of a Glenn amp,and if so did you hear any significant improvement?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> I learned allot about designing SS amps Don't use that much anymore I think tubes have better SQ.



Very interesting, thanks Glenn.  There you have it, folks!  Tubes are better


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Has anyone tried upgrading the stock fuse of a Glenn amp,and if so did you hear any significant improvement?



UT will stay out of this hot topic.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 28, 2019)

mordy said:


> The NU 6N7GT/T is a great sounding tube - the gray glass are from the 40's.
> I have been able to fix some noisy tubes (pops and crackles - not hum) by heating each tube pin with a 30W soldering iron for around 30 seconds. Just hold the tube upright so that any solder that might flow doesn't end up inside the tube.
> For hum and microphonics I have had luck by applying and stretching a tight band of self fusing silicone tape around the glass.
> Question: When you measure a quad temperature, are you referring to the tubes themselves (hottest point) or the amp chassis? I would think that what counts is the amp temperature.
> ...



@mordy you gave me your 30 second soldering iron tip a while back, finally got around to giving it a try.  I have a beautiful Fivre 6N7G that tests perfectly in my tester, but is plagued by noise.  Using your method took the noise from a 10 down to a 1, and I suspect a second go-around might take it to a 0, I am in your debt!  This is a special tube for me and I was very distraught at how unusable it was.  I will try this on the EL32 next, they have given me a lot of trouble.

Here it is with a pair of Western Electric 421A.  Listening to Aphex Twin - _Selected Ambient Works Volume II_


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I learned allot about designing SS amps Don't use that much anymore I think tubes have better SQ.



The eternal debate. Similar to vinyl vs digital. One thing I'm sure. I prefer tube amps for headphones. For speakers, I've heard very good ss amps. Such as the Gryphon Antileon EVO at Audio Connections, to a lessor extent the Luxman L-509X and also my Sansui AU-Alpha 907MR.


----------



## mordy (Sep 28, 2019)

Hi LG,
Thanks for your kind words - I have managed to salvage several tubes this way. Wonder how many tubes have been discarded that could have been made usable again......
Hypnos1 took this method one step higher. He had a rare EL39 tube that was unusable because of loud pops and crackling. After applying heat for 30 seconds, the tube returned to being usable again, but then started up again.
He somehow figured out which pin was giving trouble, and cut off a little piece of the tip. Then he wedged in a piece of copper wire and filled up the inside of the pin with more solder. Voila! The tube works perfectly now!

Now I have to learn the method how to whack a tube to make disjointed wires inside come together to make it usable again! Haven't tried it yet, but I have one or two 6336 tubes that light up but don't function.

Re the EL32, I have a pair that sounded terrible with 6X6BX7 with terrible and scary pops and noises - stopped using them. In this case I think that there is an incompatibility with the BX/BL tubes because JV reported that using other power tubes such as the 6H13C he did not have any problems. Have no idea why they don't work with the BX tubes.


----------



## mordy

Here is a question:
Somebody said that the Tung Sol 5998 clear top is a rebranded Western Electric 421A - is this true?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> Thanks for your kind words - I have managed to salvage several tubes this way. Wonder how many tubes have been discarded that could have been made usable again......
> Hypnos1 took this method one step higher. He had a rare EL39 tube that was unusable because of loud pops and crackling. After applying heat for 30 seconds, the tube returned to being usable again, but then started up again.
> He somehow figured out which pin was giving trouble, and cut off a little piece of the tip. Then he wedged in a piece of copper wire and filled up the inside of the pin with more solder. Voila! The tube works perfectly now!
> ...



I will keep that in mind, I'd imagine being able to resolder or rebase tubes would be  useful skill, I know it can be done.

And that has been my experience too with the EL32, pops, sizzles, and clicks.  Too bad as they are nice tubes, I think the gain of the 6BX7 plays a part.  I am going to try the solder method on them, nothing to lose at this point.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Re the EL32, I have a pair that sounded terrible with 6X6BX7 with terrible and scary pops and noises - stopped using them. In this case I think that there is an incompatibility with the BX/BL tubes because JV reported that using other power tubes such as the 6H13C he did not have any problems. Have no idea why they don't work with the BX tubes.



I have absolutely no problems with my Mullard EL32 grey glass with 6 x 6bx7gt. In fact, one of my quieter combinations.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 28, 2019)

mordy said:


> Here is a question:
> Somebody said that the Tung Sol 5998 clear top is a rebranded Western Electric 421A - is this true?



That is yet another debate, are they different tubes?  Most say the 421A is a TS rebrand.  My personal experience is they sound similar but noticably different.  The clear top 5998 is very uncommon though, so hard to compare.

I have found the 5998 with the copper rods sounds closer to the 421A than the non-copper rod 5998.

If the 421A is truly just a 5998, does that mean TS also manufactured the 422A?  That has always confounded the argument for me.  I suppose that would mean WE sourced the components from TS or contracted to have them manufactured, since there is no TS equivalent.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I have absolutely no problems with my Mullard EL32 grey glass with 6 x 6bx7gt. In fact, one of my quieter combinations.


Are your Mullard EL32 ST type? I have the inexpensive straight glass ones.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I will keep that in mind, I'd imagine being able to resolder or rebase tubes would be  useful skill, I know it can be done.
> 
> And that has been my experience too with the EL32, pops, sizzles, and clicks.  Too bad as they are nice tubes, I think the gain of the 6BX7 plays a part.  I am going to try the solder method on them, nothing to lose at this point.


H1 has managed to rebase tubes, but it is a very delicate and difficult task fraught with failures.....
It would be great to put on octal base on a side contact tube like the EL3N, but I assume that it is too difficult a task for most people.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Are your Mullard EL32 ST type? I have the inexpensive straight glass ones.



I've all the EL32 / CV1052 types. 4 x ST clear glass, 2 x grey glass (these ones from the India seller where the tubes are immaculate) and the 2 x straight ones from Langrex.

ALL of these are quiet with 6 x 6bx7gt or 6BL7gt. They sound very good and are very quiet. Just lower gain but ain't too bad. Just need to increase volume and all will be well.


----------



## mordy

I have the same type as those on the right - there is a possibility that the Chinese made adapters are the culprit.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> I have the same type as those on the right - *there is a possibility that the Chinese made adapters are the culprit*.



Possibly. I have the chinese made adapters too but I've stopped using them because there's no key guide and you better slot it in right.


----------



## UntilThen

When my GOTL had problems, I thought it was the EL32 tubes but Glenn diagnosed it as a burn out resistor. After he replaced that, I've no more problems.


----------



## UntilThen

Right now the EL32 straight ones are in with 6 x GE 6bx7gt. There is ZERO noise. I can't believe it. Sounds damm good too for 4 pounds a tube from Langrex. Volume at 12 noon is LOUD.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EL32-CV...224426?hash=item3cb6d18dea:g:JFQAAOSw7Kldep3F


----------



## myphone

L0rdGwyn said:


> That is yet another debate, are they different tubes?  Most say the 421A is a TS rebrand.  My personal experience is they sound similar but noticably different.  The clear top 5998 is very uncommon though, so hard to compare.
> 
> I have found the 5998 with the copper rods sounds closer to the 421A than the non-copper rod 5998.
> 
> If the 421A is truly just a 5998, does that mean TS also manufactured the 422A?  That has always confounded the argument for me.  I suppose that would mean WE sourced the components from TS or contracted to have them manufactured, since there is no TS equivalent.



I don't have GOTL. I have many TS 5998 including several clear top (1950 - 1960's) and WE 421a (1950, 1960, 1970, and 1980's) Clear top 5998 structurally is similar to same period WE 421a (smaller tail wire than 421), and sounds similar to 421a (a bit less bloom and stage) used in OTL amp. They are quite different from regular 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

I've tested all 3 types. The ST grey glass sounds amazing ! 

So my preference are ST grey glass, ST clear glass and CV1052 straight glass. However it's not night and day difference. All so very very good IMO. So donate to Langrex because Jim and I are best mates.


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> I don't have GOTL. I have many TS 5998 including several clear top (1950 - 1960's) and WE 421a (1950, 1960, 1970, and 1980's) Clear top 5998 structurally is similar to same period WE 421a (smaller tail wire than 421), and sounds similar to 421a (a bit less bloom and stage) used in OTL amp. They are quite different from regular 5998.



Yo myphone ! Where have you been? It's been a long time my friend. I would recommend you to get a GOTL because she's a very lovely sounding Unicorn.


----------



## UntilThen

Damm Beyer T1 version 1 for AUD$200 !!!
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/293247-fs-beyerdynanic-t1-headphones-v1/

What has the head-fi world come to.


----------



## myphone

UntilThen said:


> Yo myphone ! Where have you been? It's been a long time my friend. I would recommend you to get a GOTL because she's a very lovely sounding Unicorn.



Hello UT, have been reading you guys comments with great interest.


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> Hello UT, have been reading you guys comments with great interest.



Well mate, it's been such a long time. Feels nostalgic when a familiar face shows up again. Trust you are well and still enjoying your music.

After Elise and Euforia, I got my GOTL in Dec 2017. For the first time, this amp stays while other gear have come and gone in that time. I love it that much.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have a beautiful Fivre 6N7G that tests perfectly in my tester



K, I have to bring out my Visseaux, Mazda, Fivre 6N7g again. It's been too long since the last listen of these tubes. My tubes have those vintage labels too. Even have a lot of 6A6, that sounds similar to the 6N7G.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 29, 2019)

Longer listening test with the various EL32 / VT52 / CV1052. I'm very impressed with these tubes. So much so, I'm even considering using these as drivers in Berlin. The soundstage is wide and there is a nice 3D wrap around effect.

1st up is Mullard EL32 / VT52 (it's actually labelled as VT52) clear glass with 6 x GE 6BX7gt. What can I say. It's clear no doubt (pun intended) and there's no mistaking the EL32 tone. Volume at 12 noon and Verite is singing pretty loudly. Despite the relaxing tone, there's a bite to it. Just the right amount of tube tone. Euphonic and organic but not overly much. Bass has a nice impact and yet it's different from EL11. This is less in your face. Not perfect but I do like it a lot. Very hard to describe it but those who have heard EL32 will know.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VT52-EL...072029?hash=item2ce01595dd:g:ezwAAOSwIbtb95lG


----------



## UntilThen

Next is the Mullard EL32 grey glass from India. These are the Taj Mahal.  Very nice looking tubes. Tone has slightly more texture and slightly more lushness. You would be wondering if I can hear the difference between the grey glass and the clear glass. I can hear it alright. I think anyone can. Very interesting variation in tone. Like these a lot. As per the above clear glass, the grey glass with 6bx7s are very quiet. Super impressed. Can't hear any noise !!! Volume is similarly at 12 noon for my comfortably loud listening level. So don't forget the Taj Mahal. Majestic tubes.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 29, 2019)

Lastly the Mullard CV1052 from Langrex. These had the sellers notes:-

EL32/CV1052 MULLARD
TESTED NEW AND UNUSED
MADE IN GREAT BRITAIN
PACKED IN ORIGINAL GOVERNMENT BOXES
MO2 B9C1 MULLARD CODE ON GLASS
1969 DATE CODES
These are the skinny EL32. To my utter surprise, these skinnies with 6bx7s are the quietest of them all !!! Not only that. There's a supreme clarity, speed and agility with these skinnies. I'm super impressed with the tone. I'm quite happy with just these !!! At GBP 4 each from Langrex, it's a crime to be sounding this good !

So my gear - Yggdrasil, GOTL + Mullard EL32 / CV1052 plus 6 x GE 6bx7gt, Verite Pheasant wood LTD. I think I could have found my favourite tone of all time. Now the question, Glenn ( @2359glenn )  how can I have the EL32 or EL11 as drivers in Berlin. I want them in the amp but with a choice to use either as drivers and Telefunken EL12 spez as power tubes.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EL32-CV...m3cb6d18dea:g:JFQAAOSw7Kldep3F&frcectupt=true


----------



## UntilThen

Now the finale, another side view picture of the skinnies + 6bx7s. I think this Mona Lisa.


----------



## UntilThen

There are countless CV1052 on eBay. It would be fun to have a special OTL amp to use 6 x CV1052 in strapped triode mode as power tubes. Drivers could be another pair of CV1052 or a 6sn7 or EL11 / EL3N.


----------



## hypnos1 (Sep 29, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> There are countless CV1052 on eBay. It would be fun to have a special OTL amp to use 6 x CV1052 in strapped triode mode as power tubes. Drivers could be another pair of CV1052 or a 6sn7 or EL11 / EL3N.



Yo UT...when I was experimenting with the EL32 (before being trounced by the EL38 and especially EL39 as powers!), 2 as drivers to 2x powers in Euforia was really good but needed the more powerful EL12 Spezial as power to do the EL32 drivers justice. However, I'm sure _six_ 32s as powers would perform much better than 2! And that price for the straight-sided version sure is an unbelievable bargain lol.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

myphone said:


> I don't have GOTL. I have many TS 5998 including several clear top (1950 - 1960's) and WE 421a (1950, 1960, 1970, and 1980's) Clear top 5998 structurally is similar to same period WE 421a (smaller tail wire than 421), and sounds similar to 421a (a bit less bloom and stage) used in OTL amp. They are quite different from regular 5998.



Sounds like a great collection, @myphone .  Are these being used in FA amps?  I have owned many 5998s myself, including an oddball 421A labeled Tung-Sol, but never a clear top Tung-Sol.  To my ears, there are some sonic differences between 5998s.  Like I said, my preference are the copper rod version, but the Western Electric 421A is the best I own from the family.  I also own an early model 1950s gray plate 421A that sounds excellent, but is prone to arcing.

I have to admit though, I use them less often than I used to for fear of arcing, but they are great sounding tubes.  These days a Tung-Sol 7802 pair or quad or a 7802/6BX7 combo is my preferred power tube loadout in the GOTL.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> K, I have to bring out my Visseaux, Mazda, Fivre 6N7g again. It's been too long since the last listen of these tubes. My tubes have those vintage labels too. Even have a lot of 6A6, that sounds similar to the 6N7G.



These are some of my favorite tubes, M, the Visseaux and Fivre 6N7G are very nice, get those babies out of storage!!!  Have not tried the 6A6, may have to give them a try.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> These are some of my favorite tubes, M, the Visseaux and Fivre 6N7G are very nice, get those babies out of storage!!!  Have not tried the 6A6, may have to give them a try.



The 6A6 is the predecessor of  the 6N7 it just has a different 7 pin base. I have a few and they are all noisy but they are used tubes not NOS.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> The 6A6 is the predecessor of  the 6N7 it just has a different 7 pin base. I have a few and they are all noisy but they are used tubes not NOS.



Thanks, I think I will check the market and maybe get an adapter if there are some intriguing options for sale.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Right now the EL32 straight ones are in with 6 x GE 6bx7gt. There is ZERO noise. I can't believe it. Sounds damm good too for 4 pounds a tube from Langrex. Volume at 12 noon is LOUD.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EL32-CV...224426?hash=item3cb6d18dea:g:JFQAAOSw7Kldep3F


How do these compare to the (much) more expensive EL32 tubes?
I have a pair of these cheapies, but never got to try them out, yet...


----------



## cdanguyen08

Thank you @UntilThen and @whirlwind for all the help with the GLE3N! Working with @2359glenn has been great so far. Even recommended an addition to help with my constant moving.


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> How do these compare to the (much) more expensive EL32 tubes?
> I have a pair of these cheapies, but never got to try them out, yet...


Nevermind... Kept on reading and saw that you already answered!


----------



## mordy

It is amazing to me how sellers try to misrepresent tubes in ingenious ways to capture hits:
How about this Sylvania 6SN7A (6SN7W equivalent):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202788900157?ul_noapp=true
6SN7 A BRAND NEW SYLVANIA TUBE which reads *6SN7A* on eBay, but looks like this:





Wonder if the pretzel sticks are included.....


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Yo UT...when I was experimenting with the EL32 (before being trounced by the EL38 and especially EL39 as powers!), 2 as drivers to 2x powers in Euforia was really good but needed the more powerful EL12 Spezial as power to do the EL32 drivers justice. However, I'm sure _six_ 32s as powers would perform much better than 2! And that price for the straight-sided version sure is an unbelievable bargain lol.



Colin, it's 2:27am on a Monday morning here and I got up as though drawn to what I heard before I go to bed last night. The tone from the pair of straight CV1052 / EL32 and 6 x GE 6bx7gt plays in my head whilst I was asleep. Now with my Verite headphone strapped on and powered by GOTL with these tubes, listening to Telegraph Road by Dire Straits, I'm grinning happily. 

Yes, I do think that a custom OTL amp from Glenn to run 2 x EL32 as drivers and 6 x EL32 as power tubes will sound as good as with 2 x EL32 and 6 x 6bx7gt or EVEN BETTER. 

I realised that I can't cramp all kinds of tubes in Berlin. So Berlin will stay as a SET amp using EL11 and EL12 spez. However, there just might be another OTL amp using the EL32s for me.  .... and as an aside, I could drop in a pair of EL38 in place of the sextet EL32s. Wouldn't that be wicked? No I wouldn't know how that would sound because I've not heard a EL38 but you seem to like it. 

In fact once I have six power sockets for pentodes as strapped triode, the experiment could go sky high. How about 6V6, EL34 in those sockets? 

Ok, I'll stop fantasising and back to the present now with EL32s and 6bx7s..... and it was worth getting up in the middle of the night. I'll have owl eyes at work tomorrow.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 29, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> These are some of my favorite tubes, M, the Visseaux and Fivre 6N7G are very nice, get those babies out of storage!!!  Have not tried the 6A6, may have to give them a try.



I would love to get those Visseaux, Mazda and Fivre 6N7g out soon ... so many tubes so little time.... another shoot out of these with Mullard ECC31 would be good. I just had a wicked thought. How about using 6 x 6N7g as power tubes in GOTL? If not enough ommmph, then perhaps 4 x 6N7g plus 2 x 6as7. With a single 6n7g in the driver's seat. 

I think GOTL will drive me crazily happy.

My adapters for 6A6 are playing up so I can't use those tubes. Loud humming. It used to be ok so I know it's not the tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> How do these compare to the (much) more expensive EL32 tubes?
> I have a pair of these cheapies, but never got to try them out, yet...



With Verite, I have a slight preference with the straight EL32 as the sound is slightly more neutral and tighter. Still a very good tube tone. Don't let my wording of 'neutral' throw you off. Just trying to describe the tone difference between the straight and shouldered EL32. The difference isn't night and day. It's more different shades of grey.

So get out those EL32s and run it with 5998 or 6 x 6bx7s or 6BL7s and let me know how you like it !


----------



## UntilThen

cdanguyen08 said:


> Thank you @UntilThen and @whirlwind for all the help with the GLE3N! Working with @2359glenn has been great so far. Even recommended an addition to help with my constant moving.



My pleasure Cda. I've no doubt GEL3N will make you very happy BUT....... 

I've Studio Six and GOTL here that can be tuned a million ways. I KNOW that I just can't live with just one sound signature. 

When Berlin arrives, I'll need more than 24 hours a day. Life's good with so much toys to play with and so many sound signatures to titillate the aural senses.


----------



## Monsterzero

Big thank you to @2359glenn for making me a 4v>5v adapter for my U18/20.
Dont think theses another amp thread in existence where the guy who makes your amp would come to the rescue of an owner needing a simple adapter. Didnt even ask for money for it.

Thanks Glenn.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Big thank you to @2359glenn for making me a 4v>5v adapter for my U18/20.
> Dont think theses another amp thread in existence where the guy who makes your amp would come to the rescue of an owner needing a simple adapter. Didnt even ask for money for it.
> 
> Thanks Glenn.



You already have it? I agree, I have no words to describe Glenn. Just an extraordinary helpful guy who will help you to no ends.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> You already have it? I agree, I have no words to describe Glenn. Just an extraordinary helpful guy who will help you to no ends.


No,not yet. Glenn messaged me last night and said he threw it together with parts he had laying around the shop. Made out of ceramic,so it wont catch fire.

I have no idea if my U18/20 will still work,but the charred plastic has been cleaned off of the pins. That took over 30 minutes of sanding,alcohol,sanding,alcohol,sanding,De-oxit,sanding,alcohol before there was no more black gunk coming off the pins.

Hopefully it survived.


----------



## UntilThen

That said, I would like to keep my reliance on adapters to a minimum. You can't deny the beauty of a Glenn OTL amp without adapters. This is probably the most beautiful picture I took of GOTL with my set of favourite tubes - Sylnania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6bx7gt. The quietest combo for me.


----------



## UntilThen

However the lighting on this just won me over. I don't think I'll produce a better picture of GOTL again. I really think GOTL is very beautiful with this setup. It's a work of art. Glenn is an artist.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monster will have the adapter on Wednesday his U18/20 will be back in operation.


----------



## UntilThen

GOTL is such an eye candy. I have to enlarged these pictures and frame it on my walls. These were taken with a Nikon slr on tripod with time exposure with the highest resolution.

Brimar 13D1 and Cetron 6336b.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Monster will have the adapter on Wednesday his U18/20 will be back in operation.



Glenn send the 596 rectifier plus adapter to me at your convenience and let me know how much. I'm really looking forward to it.


----------



## chrisdrop

UntilThen said:


> However the lighting on this just won me over. I don't think I'll produce a better picture of GOTL again. I really think GOTL is very beautiful with this setup. It's a work of art. Glenn is an artist.


I would like a MUCH higher resolution version. 
Please send your GOTL via airmail...

Great pix.


----------



## cdanguyen08

UntilThen said:


> My pleasure Cda. I've no doubt GEL3N will make you very happy BUT.......
> 
> I've Studio Six and GOTL here that can be tuned a million ways. I KNOW that I just can't live with just one sound signature.
> 
> When Berlin arrives, I'll need more than 24 hours a day. Life's good with so much toys to play with and so many sound signatures to titillate the aural senses.


Totally right there with yaa! The options are endless! But knowing myself, I'd lose my mind haha Plus I'll pick up some adapters when I wanna tube roll a little bit


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> That said, I would like to keep my reliance on adapters to a minimum. You can't deny the beauty of a Glenn OTL amp without adapters. This is probably the most beautiful picture I took of GOTL with my set of favourite tubes - Sylnania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x 6bx7gt. The quietest combo for me.



And you can't deny the beauty of a Glenn OTL with adapters.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> And you can't deny the beauty of a Glenn OTL with adapters.



Beautiful glow that I don't deny.


----------



## UntilThen

cdanguyen08 said:


> Totally right there with yaa! The options are endless! But knowing myself, I'd lose my mind haha Plus I'll pick up some adapters when I wanna tube roll a little bit



My rolling are a lot less now. I know how each tube sound in the GOTL and so I pick the combination to suit my mood and according to the occasion. After almost 2 years, you will know how each tube sounds.


----------



## UntilThen

I can customised GOTL sound a lot more than I can with Studio Six and that is too obvious.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 29, 2019)

chrisdrop said:


> I would like a MUCH higher resolution version.
> Please send your GOTL via airmail...
> 
> Great pix.



Thanks. I've always given credit to the camera for any good picture that I take because all I did was understand a few basics and applying that before I press the shutter. A steady hand is important or use a tripod. Then decide if with or without flash will produce the result that you want. Lastly, a simple photo editing tool to touch up. However all that is useless if the subject is not pleasing to look at but you will be surprised how simple objects can look beautiful when captured by the camera. Like a single tube.


----------



## UntilThen

Captured this yesterday with my iPhone X. Will be upgrading to a iPhone 11 Pro Max soon. I think it will produce better result.

A sunny Spring day in Canberra.


----------



## Phantaminum

Well the Glenn OTL has been dropped off to GDuss. He's probably going to be tied up for a bit just tube rolling. He's in for a treat. 

I will say it was hard letting it go. Waited a good while for delivery and it provided some really great listening experiences. I know it's in good hands.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss and Ken Jie will be giving live commentary on their GOTL in the next few days.


----------



## GDuss

Phantaminum said:


> Well the Glenn OTL has been dropped off to GDuss. He's probably going to be tied up for a bit just tube rolling. He's in for a treat.
> 
> I will say it was hard letting it go. Waited a good while for delivery and it provided some really great listening experiences. I know it's in good hands.



Thanks Phantaminum, it was great to see you again, and of course it's always fun to talk to you about headphones, amps, tubes etc.  I'm sure you will miss the GOTL, but it won't be far away.  Hopefully letting it go helps get you to the next monstrous Glenn amp


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> GDuss and Ken Jie will be giving live commentary on their GOTL in the next few days.



First I have to decide what to start with in the GOTL.  Thanks to Phantaminum, it's literally raining tubes right now.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> First I have to decide what to start with in the GOTL.  Thanks to Phantaminum, it's literally raining tubes right now.



Pop in a 6sn7 and a pair of 5998. You won’t be disappointed.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Pop in a 6sn7 and a pair of 5998. You won’t be disappointed.



It isn't raining those tubes.  12SN7's all over the place.  Need to find a pair of 5998.  Not that I'm complaining.  I am very much happy to have these problems.


----------



## Zachik

GDuss said:


> It isn't raining those tubes.  12SN7's all over the place.  Need to find a pair of 5998.  Not that I'm complaining.  I am very much happy to have these problems.


Honestly, I have been using 6AS7, 6080 and 6BX7 output tubes (I do not own 5998) - and I am still to hear anything that does not sound great on the GOTL!  My personal suggestion: wait with the 5998...


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 30, 2019)

GDuss said:


> It isn't raining those tubes.  12SN7's all over the place.  Need to find a pair of 5998.  Not that I'm complaining.  I am very much happy to have these problems.



Ok the reason I suggest 5998 is because you had 5998 in your signature and hence I thought you already have a pair. In which case, just use the 12SN7gt as driver (make sure to set the switch behind to 12 volt, which is the middle position) For power tubes, just use what you have got, be it Svetlana 6h13c, RCA 6as7g, any 6080s.

Whilst many have suggested that the GOTL sound good with any 'ordinary' tube ( which I agree), I also feel that the 'better' tubes takes GOTL to another level or more. Power tubes such as the GEC 6as7g, Tung Sol 5998, Bendix 6080wb and GEC 6080 are in my opinion much better than RCA 6as7g, RCA 6080, Mullard 6080 or the Svetlana 6h13c. As usual, YMMV.

And if you have been following my impressions, I much prefer 6 x 6bx7gt over all the above power tubes, bar the 5998. YMMV - 2nd time I said it in one post.


----------



## UntilThen

Back to work now so won't be posting as much now. After a day's work, I settle down to try out 6bx7s and 5998 with EL32s. Hard to decide which I prefer. Such a good tone. It's not in your face. It's relaxing and vibrant at the same time. I could lose myself listening to music with these. Best of all, it's pitch black background. No noise at all.

 Mullard EL32 with 6 x GE 6bx7gt

 

Mullard EL32 with Tung Sol 5998


----------



## UntilThen

Enjoy guys. I'll scale back from posting and will look forward to other new owners to give their impressions. 

Cheers
UT


----------



## UntilThen

One more iconic shot of Telecom Towers at Black Mountain Forest, Canberra. Cheerio.


----------



## cdanguyen08

UntilThen said:


> Enjoy guys. I'll scale back from posting and will look forward to other new owners to give their impressions.
> 
> Cheers
> UT



I come back to head-fi and ya scale back.. again thanks for all your help! Definitely made this thread welcoming.


----------



## UntilThen

cdanguyen08 said:


> I come back to head-fi and ya scale back.. again thanks for all your help! Definitely made this thread welcoming.



When you look at my post counts, scaling back is the right thing to do.  Don't worry. I won't dampen the interest here. In fact, you're find me cheering all of you on. This hobby has given me immense happiness and I'm sure it will continue to generate interest in all of you. So Cda, let your flame burn bright. I'll be watching and chime in when i can. I'm not gone ! Oh no not for UntilThen. The bane of having this logon name. It will never end. So let me do a little dance for you.


----------



## UntilThen

New adventures are beckoning. UT will be riding like the wind... chase by bloody magpies.


----------



## GDuss

Zachik said:


> Honestly, I have been using 6AS7, 6080 and 6BX7 output tubes (I do not own 5998) - and I am still to hear anything that does not sound great on the GOTL!  My personal suggestion: wait with the 5998...



Thanks, this is helpful...to me and my wallet.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Ok the reason I suggest 5998 is because you had 5998 in your signature and hence I thought you already have a pair.



You're right, this is confusing.  I have a Tung Sol 5998 but only 1 .



UntilThen said:


> In which case, just use the 12SN7gt as driver (make sure to set the switch behind to 12 volt, which is the middle position)



Phantaminum made sure to give me the warning about always checking the switch.  Very helpful.



UntilThen said:


> Whilst many have suggested that the GOTL sound good with any 'ordinary' tube ( which I agree), I also feel that the 'better' tubes takes GOTL to another level or more. Power tubes such as the GEC 6as7g, Tung Sol 5998, Bendix 6080wb and GEC 6080 are in my opinion much better than RCA 6as7g, RCA 6080, Mullard 6080 or the Svetlana 6h13c. As usual, YMMV.
> 
> And if you have been following my impressions, I much prefer 6 x 6bx7gt over all the above power tubes, bar the 5998. YMMV - 2nd time I said it in one post.



Thanks UT, you are a great resource to this forum.  I will undoubtedly have many questions for you in the future, apologies in advance for the silly ones.

Phantaminum set me up with lots of GE 6BX7, so first up will be 6 of those.


----------



## 2359glenn

Phantaminum said:


> Well the Glenn OTL has been dropped off to GDuss. He's probably going to be tied up for a bit just tube rolling. He's in for a treat.
> 
> I will say it was hard letting it go. Waited a good while for delivery and it provided some really great listening experiences. I know it's in good hands.



You sold it?


----------



## Phantaminum (Sep 30, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> You sold it?



I sold my baby.  But it’s in great hands now. GDuss is probably going to message you to introduce himself and ask you a few questions.

By the way, could you put please put me in the queue, lol. I was thinking of having something built with EL34 tubes or possibly even a 2A3 SET amp with some good iron.

I’m going to brain storm until my turn to have an amp build comes up.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Thanks UT, you are a great resource to this forum. I will undoubtedly have many questions for you in the future, apologies in advance for the silly ones.
> 
> Phantaminum set me up with lots of GE 6BX7, so first up will be 6 of those.



Shoot. Anytime. Fire your questions away. You do me too much honours. I'm but a cyclist trying to outrun the magpies. Those 6bx7s are going to come up real handy especially if they are quiet ones.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I sold my baby.  But it’s in great hands now. GDuss is probably going to message you to introduce himself and ask you a few questions.
> 
> By the way, could you put please put me in the queue, lol. I was thinking of having something built with EL34 tubes or possibly even a 2A3 SET amp with some good iron.
> 
> I’m going to brain storm until my turn to have an amp build comes up.



The hardest part is the aftermath of selling the GOTL. I can't see myself doing that. The unthinkable has happen. I've move the Studio Six to a side table for the time being as I elevate GOTL to the top of the rack, so I can experiment more with a few more tubes. Still using Mullard EL32 and Tung Sol 5998 at the moment and it's as good as it gets. A tube combination that sounds as good and as quiet as this usually gets my attention.

Can't go wrong with a SET amp based on either the EL34 or 2A3 tubes, especially with Glenn's tuning of the amp. The OTL amp is a product of Glenn's special tuning, one that I feel sounded so very good, compared to other OTL amps I've heard in the past.


----------



## UntilThen

The first of experimental RCA interconnect have arrived. The Redgum RCA is from the maker of my Redgum amp. At $50 a pair I didn't expect much from it but boy was I surprised. I could hear a difference between it and the K-Mart cables. I think spending a bit more on RCA interconnects is worthwhile but not the most expensive $1600 cable from the site I link below. The Redgum is the cheapest there. 

https://www.usahifi.com/products/redgum-rgap-audio-pipeline-ofc-interconnect


----------



## UntilThen

This blog by Marc Philips of Cardas Colleen Imports USA talks about my Redgum amp with the Axis Voicebox S speakers. The very amp and speakers that I use are being distributed in the US. http://thevinylanachronist.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-chronicles-of-sydnia-part-6-redgum.html


----------



## UntilThen

Just read this from a HiFi article and how true !

_It has been said, and it is true, Harman have run tests, that the more discriminating you are in analysing sound, the less you enjoy the music. Think about that! Musicians are less picky about sound quality than we are. _


----------



## Monsterzero

GDuss said:


> You're right, this is confusing.  I have a Tung Sol 5998 but only 1 .



Its a great sounding tube as you know. Not cheap,but one isnt gonna help you in the GOTL.





GDuss said:


> made sure to give me the warning about always checking the switch.  Very helpful.


 Yeah,I find my self dbl and triple checking that thing before the power button is pushed.







GDuss said:


> set me up with lots of GE 6BX7, so first up will be 6 of those.



6BX7s can be noisy,and fickle. Cleaning pins often and re-seating them usually helps for me.

In case you missed my post from a few days ago,tube rolling is a lot like free hand cooking. Mix and match and see what sounds good. And do not write off a single tube simply because it doesnt sound good in a specific combo.

One of the original tubes I bought was a Ken Rad VT231. Ive head it since I bought my GOTL. In that time Ive never found it to sound that great,but with the Verite closed and the 6BX7s and GEC rectifier,it outshines all my other driver tubes.

Have fun!


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> 6BX7s can be noisy,and fickle. Cleaning pins often and re-seating them usually helps for me.
> 
> In case you missed my post from a few days ago,tube rolling is a lot like free hand cooking. Mix and match and see what sounds good. And do not write off a single tube simply because it doesnt sound good in a specific combo.
> 
> ...



You guys are awesome.  This should seriously be part of the marketing of Glenn amps, as if he needed any additional marketing... the after-sales service from the designer/manufacturer and user community is outstanding. 

I like the free hand cooking analogy, but would modify a bit (for myself) to be "experiments in the laboratory".  You just have to test it to see what works, and things that work are not always the ones that were predicted.  Sometimes observations you make today may not be helpful immediately, but end up being a big deal years down the road.  This is very common in research studies.  Sounds an awful lot like testing tube combos with various gear in the chain.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 30, 2019)

5998/EL32 is nice sounding.

However, I find that adding your favorite 12AU7 adds immensely.  The EL32's are a tad dull in the upper frequencies (lovely mids).

The 12AU7 or ECC804 or an ECC88 used *with* the EL32's sounds much better, for me...


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> You guys are awesome. This should seriously be part of the marketing of Glenn amps, as if he needed any additional marketing... the after-sales service from the designer/manufacturer and user community is outstanding.



Don't forget the jokes. Sometimes it can be lame or sometimes it can be hilarious. One thing's for sure, the jokes free, not the amp or tubes.

_An Irishman, Englishman and Scotsman go into a pub and each order a pint of Guinness. Just as the bartender hands them over, three flies buzz down and one lands in each of the pints. The Englishman looks disgusted, pushes his pint away and demands another pint. The Scotsman picks out the fly, shrugs, and takes a long swallow. The Irishman reaches in to the glass, pinches the fly between his fingers and shakes him while yelling, "Spit it out, ya person! Spit it out!"_


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> I like the free hand cooking analogy, but would modify a bit (for myself) to be "experiments in the laboratory". You just have to test it to see what works, and things that work are not always the ones that were predicted. Sometimes observations you make today may not be helpful immediately, but end up being a big deal years down the road. This is very common in research studies. Sounds an awful lot like testing tube combos with various gear in the chain.



That's what we're trying to do with discovering our tubes combo and dream up some custom amp concoctions. In the hope they might be considered for the Smithsonian Awards or maybe the Nobel price for ingenuity. The discovery we make today could save mankind from boredom.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Its a great sounding tube as you know. Not cheap,but one isnt gonna help you in the GOTL.



Half of 5998 is 2999. That could be a new tone in the making.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> An Irishman, Englishman and Scotsman go into a pub and each order a pint of Guinness. Just as the bartender hands them over, three flies buzz down and one lands in each of the pints. The Englishman looks disgusted, pushes his pint away and demands another pint. The Scotsman picks out the fly, shrugs, and takes a long swallow. The Irishman reaches in to the glass, pinches the fly between his fingers and shakes him while yelling, "Spit it out, ya person! Spit it out!"



I was just in Ireland for 12 days earlier this month.  This joke makes total sense now.  Guinness at breakfast, Guinness at lunch... Guinness (actually more like Redbreast) at dinner.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> That's what we're trying to do with discovering our tubes combo and dream up some custom amp concoctions. In the hope they might be considered for the Smithsonian Awards or maybe the Nobel price for ingenuity. The discovery we make today could save mankind from boredom.



Now we just need to figure out a way to get research grants funded that will pay for tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Now we just need to figure out a way to get research grants funded that will pay for tubes.



That's a good one. I like it.... a lot. Now I have to think of something to say that makes sense because after 4 nonsensical posts without any relevance to tube rolling or amp designs, I'll be shown the door !


----------



## UntilThen

I really like the idea of an OTL amp that has just 9 sockets. One for tube rectifier. 2 up front for Pentode as strapped triodes - drivers. 6 behind for Pentode as strapped triodes - powers. A Lundahl power transformer suitable for such a build.

If I can get Glenn to ok this idea and if it plays to the GOTL price point, I could be interested. So I could be running 2 x EL11s as drivers and 6 x EL3Ns as power tubes. Or 2 x EL32 and 2 x EL12 spez. In OTL mode because I want the tube sound.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I really like the idea of an OTL amp that has just 9 sockets. One for tube rectifier. 2 up front for Pentode as strapped triodes - drivers. 6 behind for Pentode as strapped triodes - powers. A Lundahl power transformer suitable for such a build.
> 
> If I can get Glenn to ok this idea and if it plays to the GOTL price point, I could be interested. So I could be running 2 x EL11s as drivers and 6 x EL3Ns as power tubes. Or 2 x EL32 and 2 x EL12 spez. In OTL mode because I want the tube sound.


 I see that its time for another amp intervention for you. Stop! Go enjoy the music.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I see that its time for another amp intervention for you. Stop! Go enjoy the music.



You're right. Too many amps not enough time to enjoy it.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Enjoy guys. I'll scale back from posting and will look forward to other new owners to give their impressions.
> 
> Cheers
> UT





Monsterzero said:


> I see that its time for another amp intervention for you. Stop! Go enjoy the music.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> You're right. Too many amps not enough time to enjoy it.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


>



Alright I’ll go to the more enjoyable pursuit of work now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> I see that its time for another amp intervention for you. Stop! Go enjoy the music.



+1

Amen!


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Alright I’ll go to the more enjoyable pursuit of work now.



That's my problem right now.  At work all day.  As enjoyable as that is, I need to get away for time with the GOTL, so I can contribute something meaningful to this place.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> That's my problem right now.  At work all day.  As enjoyable as that is, I need to get away for time with the GOTL, so I can contribute something meaningful to this place.



Just explain how the brain interpret music and that would be a great contribution here.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Just explain how the brain interpret music and that would be a great contribution here.



Check this out

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6094140/


----------



## JazzVinyl

Any "Aruba Red" fans here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aruba_Red

Jack Bruce's daughter...just heard of her today.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> The first of experimental RCA interconnect have arrived. The Redgum RCA is from the maker of my Redgum amp. At $50 a pair I didn't expect much from it but boy was I surprised. I could hear a difference between it and the K-Mart cables. I think spending a bit more on RCA interconnects is worthwhile but not the most expensive $1600 cable from the site I link below. The Redgum is the cheapest there.
> 
> https://www.usahifi.com/products/redgum-rgap-audio-pipeline-ofc-interconnect



My thinking is it is worth getting something better than stock, but personally I can't justify spending big bucks on cables and interconnects.

Currently, like Mordy, I am using hospital grade power cords and my interconnects are Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 Low Capacitance Audio Cables.

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm

I haven't tried to make any comparisons but again, since I believe these are better than stock I am very satisfied. 

And further, I much prefer rolling rectifiers than rolling wire. lol


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> My thinking is it is worth getting something better than stock, but personally I can't justify spending big bucks on cables and interconnects.
> 
> Currently, like Mordy, I am using hospital grade power cords and my interconnects are Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 Low Capacitance Audio Cables.
> 
> ...



I use BJC as well, great build quality and no snake oil


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Any "Aruba Red" fans here?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aruba_Red
> 
> Jack Bruce's daughter...just heard of her today.



I've never heard of her but for sure I remember Jack Bruce from Cream and I intend to check her music out later this evening. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## attmci

Phantaminum said:


>


----------



## JazzVinyl

Welcome to the “Glenn 10”:

2x 12J5’s
2x EL32’s
6x 6BX7’s

Took a while to find powers that the 12J5’s liked.  Had hum with 5998’s 6BL7 and 6AS7G...

But all are very happy (no hum) with the 6x 6BX7’s

 



.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> my interconnects are Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 Low Capacitance Audio Cables.
> 
> https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm


Same here. Roger Russell has a few good articles about different types of wires:
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


----------



## Monsterzero

Has anyone tried using 6J5s of different brands in the same adapter? I was reading over on another forum about 6SN7GTs and one guy much preferred the 6J5,and also preferred using two different brands vs. a pair of the same.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Has anyone tried using 6J5s of different brands in the same adapter? I was reading over on another forum about 6SN7GTs and one guy much preferred the 6J5,and also preferred using two different brands vs. a pair of the same.



Funny you should mention...

Yes, in the picture above, I am using two different brands of 12J5.  One is NU, one is Raytheon...

I like using two different brands, makes things pop out in the the sound field.  Its like getting a 'new mix' of familiar music


----------



## cdanguyen08

JazzVinyl said:


> Welcome to the “Glenn 10”:
> 
> 2x 12J5’s
> 2x EL32’s
> ...



Makes me want a GOTL along with the GEL3N!


----------



## UntilThen

cdanguyen08 said:


> Makes me want a GOTL along with the GEL3N!



You should!


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 1, 2019)

Personally I'm not predicting much with the notion of 4-6x EL32. I've already been that route having tried 6x EL32 as powers with an externally-heated Euforia amp and contrary to logic, the sound I got was very thin and bright, not even the same tonality as the _one-tube-per-socket_ performance. Further, 4x EL32's as drivers performed awfully as well (2x + 2x) also sounding uncomfortably bright. It wasn't until adding in a pair of EL39 to 4x EL32's as powers that any multiples of EL32's finally started to sound good. And with this pairing, I had noted the sound as "Superb realism, detailed, linear, expansive, resolving", leaping far ahead of previous combos even involving the mighty GEC 6AS7G + EL38, Tung-Sol 6BL7, etc. - yet still modestly bright being multiples of EL32. Of course your results can vary on a properly biased amp - however it is a widely accepted consensus that EL38 and EL39 outdo the EL32 (especially in terms of soundstage, dynamics and _vastly-vastly_ moreso with the EL39); with EL12 Spez very comparable - even preferable to both EL32 and EL38, with a different tone. 

Unfortunately for the moment the stocks of EL39 appear to have diminished. And as an aside, only the silver, not the red band version of EL39 are supposed to be any good.


----------



## UntilThen

DL when you say widely accepted consensus, what and who do you mean by that. I doubt any of them have heard Takatsuki 300b tubes. I have and it is in a Woo Audio WA5LE which was loan to me for 2 weeks while my friend goes on a holiday. I doubt EL38 and EL39 will be as good or better than the Taks 300b. 

So as in all opinions, it's just an opinion. There's no such thing as a 'widely' accepted consensus. This is not a universal truth. Sorry I don't buy that. Even if a group of people tell me that the Taks 300b or Western Electric 300b are the best tubes, I would have to say it's just their subjective view.


----------



## UntilThen

SQ is subjective and so is the view on the best tubes. Best tubes can mean any tube to anybody. To some a $2 tube sounds best, to others a $1000 tube sounds best. Yet to others a tube handed down from generation to generation sounds best because it has sentimental value. 

So I won't argue with you whether McIntosh or Audio Note sounds best. That's for you to decide. And what you decide may not be what I decide.


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> Personally I'm not predicting much with the notion of 4-6x EL32. I've already been that route having tried 6x EL32 as powers with an externally-heated Euforia amp and contrary to logic, the sound I got was very thin and bright, not even the same tonality as the _one-tube-per-socket_ performance. Further, 4x EL32's as drivers performed awfully as well (2x + 2x) also sounding uncomfortably bright. It wasn't until adding in a pair of EL39 to 4x EL32's as powers that any multiples of EL32's finally started to sound good. And with this pairing, I had noted the sound as "Superb realism, detailed, linear, expansive, resolving", leaping far ahead of previous combos even involving the mighty GEC 6AS7G + EL38, Tung-Sol 6BL7, etc. - yet still modestly bright being multiples of EL32. Of course your results can vary on a properly biased amp - however it is a widely accepted consensus that EL38 and EL39 outdo the EL32 (especially in terms of soundstage, dynamics and _vastly-vastly_ moreso with the EL39); with EL12 Spez very comparable - even preferable to both EL32 and EL38, with a different tone.
> 
> Unfortunately for the moment the stocks of EL39 appear to have diminished. And as an aside, only the silver, not the red band version of EL39 are supposed to be any good.



Un-obtanium tubes are no good for the obvious reason.
Hard to predict tube behavior/sound in a Glenn amp via experience using them another amp (architecture being different).

Also,
In the GOTL, the EL32's used as drivers triplet, adapted to the C3g sockets do just the opposite of your statement above, regarding the sound stage and dynamics.

As always YMMV.


----------



## Monsterzero

So that U52 I was bidding on ended at 7am my time. Too early for me. I ended up losing the auction by two dollars,and then the winner promptly cancelled the order! Instead of contacting me,seller re-listed...GRRRRRRR!!!!!
Maybe for the best. The adapter Glenn made is due in today,and perhaps my U18/20 survived. 

To those with rectifiers,does anyone have any experience with Italian made Marconi rectifiers?


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> So that U52 I was bidding on ended at 7am my time. Too early for me. I ended up losing the auction by two dollars,and then the winner promptly cancelled the order! Instead of contacting me,seller re-listed...GRRRRRRR!!!!!
> Maybe for the best. The adapter Glenn made is due in today,and perhaps my U18/20 survived.
> 
> To those with rectifiers,does anyone have any experience with Italian made Marconi rectifiers?



Ha! The winner might be the seller. It just didn't meet the price that the seller wants to sell. That's how I read it anyway.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Ha! The winner might be the seller. It just didn't meet the price that the seller wants to sell. That's how I read it anyway.


 Yeah,you could be correct. Didnt think of that TBH. Why not just set a reserve price though?


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,you could be correct. Didnt think of that TBH. Why not just set a reserve price though?



I mean if it's true, can you cancelled after winning a bid? I thought you're not allowed to do that? There will be some penalty surely. 

Anyway the tube is used and it has a broken guide pin - closed at GBP 137. I wouldn't buy it at that price for that tube.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 1, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Has anyone tried using 6J5s of different brands in the same adapter? I was reading over on another forum about 6SN7GTs and one guy much preferred the 6J5,and also preferred using two different brands vs. a pair of the same.



I haven't, it's against my religion, but I am willing to try it, for science. 

You could also try two different brands of power tube, or heck listen to 1/2 of two different headphones.  Try VC on the left and VO on the right  connect one to TRS and the other to XLR.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I haven't, it's against my religion, but I am willing to try it, for science.
> 
> You could also try two different brands of power tube, or heck listen to 1/2 of two different headphones.  Try VC on the left and VO on the right  connect one to TRS and the other to XLR.


----------



## UntilThen

I generally do not mix different brands of the same tube type except.... for 6bx7 and 6BL7. That's also because of the inability to get all the same brands for a sextet but that's about to change soon. I'll be getting a bunch of NOS 6bx7s.


----------



## UntilThen

A little update. 2 x Mullard EL32 and 6 x GE 6bx7gt continue to impress me with the quietness and great SQ. A winning combination.

Also tried adding a 6sn7 to the mix. Same quietness and gain goes up a bit more. Not a bad tone at all. The 6sn7 is left over from owning Euforia. I still have a pair of Psvane 6sn7 as stock tubes on Euforia. That's the 6sn7 that I'm trying with the EL32 and 6bx7s mix. Cheap tubes so why not try it together and it's well under the 13a max in GOTL.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I generally do not mix different brands of the same tube type except.... for 6bx7 and 6BL7. That's also because of the inability to get all the same brands for a sextet but that's about to change soon. I'll be getting a bunch of NOS 6bx7s.



What new brands will you have, M?


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> What new brands will you have, M?



None of the better brands I'm looking for, like the Fivre or Tung Sol. What I'm getting is more GE, Sylvania and RCA. Beggars can't be choosers.  They are all NOS though.


 

 

These are the boxes for the above picture tubes. I think I'm collecting the very nice boxes instead.


----------



## UntilThen

I have 24 x 6bx7gt and 18 x 6BL7gt/gta now. Enough to last through famine, earthquake and WW3. Taking these to Jupiter when we colonise it. See you there !


----------



## UntilThen

I think I might start a nice collection of tubes for display in a glass cabinet. Only nice ones. Who cares if they don't work in my amps.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> None of the better brands I'm looking for, like the Fivre or Tung Sol. What I'm getting is more GE, Sylvania and RCA. Beggars can't be choosers.  They are all NOS though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The RCA clear top is no slouch, I like it better than the TS myself.  Sounds like a nice haul!


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 1, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> DL when you say widely accepted consensus, what and who do you mean by that. I doubt any of them have heard Takatsuki 300b tubes. I have and it is in a Woo Audio WA5LE which was loan to me for 2 weeks while my friend goes on a holiday. I doubt EL38 and EL39 will be as good or better than the Taks 300b.
> 
> So as in all opinions, it's just an opinion. There's no such thing as a 'widely' accepted consensus. This is not a universal truth. Sorry I don't buy that. Even if a group of people tell me that the Taks 300b or Western Electric 300b are the best tubes, I would have to say it's just their subjective view.


Well as mentioned the results may vary a good deal in a properly biased Glenn amp, no doubt. Just posting my 2 cents from experiences with the EL32s on the Euforia amp. And I did not say that EL38 & 39 tubes are the best of all tubes, just that there was a concensus they were better than EL32 (or at least equal with the EL38's), for those that tried all 3 types anyway. And with how impressed I am with the EL39, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's even better than the 300B or even comparable that GEC KT77 with top cap or whatever that extravagant GEC tube with top cap was. But I would have to see.


----------



## GDuss

So, yesterday was night 1 with the GOTL.  6x 6BX7 and a National Union 6SL7.  I asked Phantaminum for a rec, and that's what he suggested, for some good low end among other things.  First impression was wow!!!  And that was starting off with the HD650 (you know, the tube-testing headphone ).  I figured I'd give the 650 a shot since I'm most familiar with it, but then I proceeded to leave it on for about an hour.  I take back anything I might have said in the past about the bass on that headphone.  I could live with the 650 on this GOTL/tube combo, and probably be happy.  

Then of course I switched to the Aeolus, which was even more of what I liked from the 650, deeper bass and better texture to it (I think), wider and more evenly distributed stage, great front-to-back depth.  Not huge differences between the two if I'm being honest, which I think speaks to how good the 650 can be with the right gear, but definitely better in each category.  I'm also not very familiar with the Aeolus yet, so grain of salt there, I'm sure the differences will grow as I figure out more of what the ZMF is doing.  

The next point is something I'm not confident I can convey, but the sound was a bit softer/rounder with the Aeolus than the 650, less edgy, something I wouldn't have thought I would say about the 650, but the Aeolus is more pleasing because of this.  Maybe it's less of the in your face mids of the 650, or something else the 650 does?  Sorry Zach, I'm butchering descriptions of your headphones, but what I'm trying to say is I like them more than 650.  

With both headphones it's the classic "real live music" tube sound, but more real than I have heard before, combined with way more rhythm and speed than I'm used to with tubes.  Couldn't sit still in the chair.  And the tone is just fantastic, this is where I really like the Aeolus with the GOTL, the way it was presenting electric guitar tone.  There are a couple of live songs at the end of Scott Amendola's album Pucker that I listen to often.  Charlie Hunter's guitar tone in those songs was great.  It's strange, I've been hearing that tone in my head all day today, trying to recreate the sound, and figure out how best to describe it (because my audio descriptor vocabulary is currently lacking; I can't use all the sophisticated words other people use).  The other thing is that I could listen at a volume that is quite a bit above what I would typically be comfortable with.  I'm usually a relatively low-volume listener.  

In any case, just some first thoughts, and these are subject to change over time with more experience.  They are also subject to change as I get better at describing sound.  Looking forward to night 2.


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> I think I might start a nice collection of tubes for display in a glass cabinet. Only nice ones. Who cares if they don't work in my amps.



Hi UT - and @2359glenn - plse excuse my butting in here, but given your anticipated new Glenn custom amp - and your mention of a possible suggestion for another (poor Glenn!) OTL using other power tubes, I feel I must entice you into adding to that wonderful tube collection/display of yours.

On a suggestion by fellow member ZRW0, I am in the process of trialing yet another non-configured for triode-strapped pentode in my Euforia...the Tung Sol reissue (Russian) 7581A. And I confess to being unexpectedly - and amazingly - impressed by yet another tube that's performing extremely well in my 6AS7G circuit lol! And that's with just a few hours on a relatively _very_ young tube. Already, with one partnering an EL39 power, I think I can safely say it will probably *at least* match the EL38, and is close on the heels of the EL39 (which French enthusiasts rate possibly even above the esteemed EL37!).

Driven by EL11s, it is _deathly_ silent, even with the volume at max, no music playing. Its performance is stellar across the entire FR, even with just about 5 hours on it. Stage is also very good for a new tube, and when fully burned in I'm sure will match any other you care to name IMHO.

And this is with a tube that can be - and usually is of course - pushed much harder, such that it has a blue glow even. And given that many other reviewers of this tube rate it above most others of the 6L6 family, including the EL34, then I suspect this could well be a winner in your camp, Glenn (especially as I'm quite sure that when driven harder, it could well surpass the 6BL/BX7 in your capable hands...and certainly without the need for six of them!). Plus, there's obviously a plentiful supply of this tube, and at an average price in the USA of $42 the _*pair*_, looks a good bet to me lol......just a thought...CJ

ps. A quick photo of the 7581A as partner to an EL39, driven by 2x EL11s (Valvos with woven mesh plates)  :


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1  no butting at all. You're most welcome here. 

However, I have a guardian angel now in @Monsterzero . He's keeping a close watch on the number of amps I'm dreaming of in my head. Which is a good thing. You know - don't drain the economy. Especially with another round of interest rates cut. 

Thanks for sharing your new discovery in the 7581a. I'm thinking of the 845 tube that Tony is dreaming of.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> In any case, just some first thoughts, and these are subject to change over time with more experience. They are also subject to change as I get better at describing sound. Looking forward to night 2.



Well done GDuss. Good first impressions there of GOTL with your headphones. Just be careful with night 2 and beyond. You'll be hearing the music in your head at work from hereon.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Well done GDuss. Good first impressions there of GOTL with your headphones. Just be careful with night 2 and beyond. You'll be hearing the music in your head at work from hereon.



Thanks.  As long as its music in my head and not voices, I'm in good shape.


----------



## Monsterzero

In case yall missed it. Hansotek has a review up of the Lampizator Amber 3 up. Im assuming since he included photos of the GOTL,and the ZMF VC in the review that at least some of his impressions are based upon this chain.

Many of the sonic traits he describes is what im hearing out of the Amber 3's big brother.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1019/LampizatOr_Amber_III_DAC_Review.htm


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT - and @2359glenn - plse excuse my butting in here, but given your anticipated new Glenn custom amp - and your mention of a possible suggestion for another (poor Glenn!) OTL using other power tubes, I feel I must entice you into adding to that wonderful tube collection/display of yours.
> 
> On a suggestion by fellow member ZRW0, I am in the process of trialing yet another non-configured for triode-strapped pentode in my Euforia...the Tung Sol reissue (Russian) 7581A. And I confess to being unexpectedly - and amazingly - impressed by yet another tube that's performing extremely well in my 6AS7G circuit lol! And that's with just a few hours on a relatively _very_ young tube. Already, with one partnering an EL39 power, I think I can safely say it will probably *at least* match the EL38, and is close on the heels of the EL39 (which French enthusiasts rate possibly even above the esteemed EL37!).
> 
> ...



Hello H1...

Have you heard 6x BX or BL7's?


----------



## chrisdrop

GDuss said:


> There are a couple of live songs at the end of Scott Amendola's album Pucker that I listen to often. Charlie Hunter's guitar tone in those songs was great.



Had a listen. Very nice. I will listen more 

Looking forwards to a 1st night with GOTL sometime soon...


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 1, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello H1...
> 
> Have you heard 6x BX or BL7's?



Hi JV.

No indeed, but in the context of my post, _conjecture_ and extended _logic_ are the basis of my _suggestion_ lol. And all based upon the fact that Glenn was able to take a tube - the 6BL7 - that previously wasn't ranked amongst the top tier and work wonders with it (as per findings here). Ergo, it's pretty safe to assume that with a tube of the 6L6/EL34 family's higher reputation he would be able to work even _greater_ miracles...especially given the glowing reports of the TS 7581A by regular users of this family.


----------



## Phantaminum

GDuss said:


> So, yesterday was night 1 with the GOTL.  6x 6BX7 and a National Union 6SL7.  I asked Phantaminum for a rec, and that's what he suggested, for some good low end among other things.  First impression was wow!!!  And that was starting off with the HD650 (you know, the tube-testing headphone ).  I figured I'd give the 650 a shot since I'm most familiar with it, but then I proceeded to leave it on for about an hour.  I take back anything I might have said in the past about the bass on that headphone.  I could live with the 650 on this GOTL/tube combo, and probably be happy.
> 
> Then of course I switched to the Aeolus, which was even more of what I liked from the 650, deeper bass and better texture to it (I think), wider and more evenly distributed stage, great front-to-back depth.  Not huge differences between the two if I'm being honest, which I think speaks to how good the 650 can be with the right gear, but definitely better in each category.  I'm also not very familiar with the Aeolus yet, so grain of salt there, I'm sure the differences will grow as I figure out more of what the ZMF is doing.
> 
> ...



And that was only one tube roll! When you think about the next hundred possible combinations:


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Looking forwards to a 1st night with GOTL sometime soon...



Based on my sample size of 1 listening session, I am excited for you.


----------



## GDuss

Phantaminum said:


> And that was only one tube roll! When you think about the next hundred possible combinations:



Indeed, I have many experiments ahead.  And indeed, you are an enabler .


----------



## attmci

Phantaminum said:


> And that was only one tube roll! When you think about the next hundred possible combinations:


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> Indeed, I have many experiments ahead.  And indeed, you are an enabler .


----------



## GDuss

I see you have all been down this road before, and know where it leads.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 1, 2019)

GDuss said:


> Indeed, I have many experiments ahead.  And indeed, you are an enabler .



While it is true that Glenn's OTL makes the most of the many tubes it can run.  I will list a few of my fave combinations (in no particular order):

NU 12N7GT
2x EL32's
6H13C powers
==============

2x 12J5
2x EL32's
6x 6BX7's
==============

Tung Sol 12SN7GT
2x EL32's
6x 6BL7's
==============

12AU7
2x EL32's
6H13C (5998's if you have them)
==============

ECC804 or ECC88
2x EL32's
6080's
==============

Note that in all cases I get a lot from adding the 2x EL32's...adapted to the C3g sockets.  They add a lot of details and textures across the mids / upper bass, and add to the depth and width of the sound stage,  I highly recommend use of the 2x EL32's, then compliment them with a high quality driver in the SN7 socket.

I have lots of really great sounding 12SN7's - the SN7 driver voltage switch has to be THE greatest feature of this amp!  Lets you buy less expensive, less used 12 and 25 volt tubes, that most amps cannot natively run.

Cheers...



.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> I see you have all been down this road before, and know where it leads.



But the great thing about the GOTL...it can make much of inexpensive tubes!


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Half of 5998 is 2999. That could be a new tone in the making.


Here is a picture of the 1/2 5998:


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Just read this from a HiFi article and how true !
> 
> _It has been said, and it is true, Harman have run tests, that the more discriminating you are in analysing sound, the less you enjoy the music. Think about that! Musicians are less picky about sound quality than we are. _


_*Musicians are less picky about sound quality than we are.*_
This is true in general - I have seen several articles describing sound systems used by musicians, and most of them were very plain or unremarkable.
There are exceptions, but not the rule....


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Here is a picture of the 1/2 5998:



No, this is a picture of four 5998 tubes. "2399" was IBM's inventory number for the 5998.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Here is a picture of the 1/2 5998:


Oh, no, this is not even close (~4XXX).


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> Check this out
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6094140/


Hi GDuss,
I have developed a very scientific process where the sound reproduction, and especially the emotional impact of the music, is directly related to the amount of involuntary toe-tapping while listening. 
The measurements are recorded mentally on a scale from 1 to 5, where 5 is the highest score.
A full scale scientific study is awaiting funding from the American Vacuum Tube Manufacturing Association (AVTMA or AA for short) with headquarters in Lansdale, PA.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> No, this is a picture of four 5998 tubes. "2399" was IBM's inventory number for the 5998.


Was just waiting to see if somebody would pick up on UT's 2999 tubes lol.


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> While it is true that Glenn's OTL makes the most of the many tubes it can run.  I will list a few of my fave combinations (in no particular order):
> 
> NU 12N7GT
> 2x EL32's
> ...



Ok, added to the experiment list.  But how does one adapt the EL32's to the C3g sockets?  Is that a custom adapter?  Or available somewhere?


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Hi GDuss,
> I have developed a very scientific process where the sound reproduction, and especially the emotional impact of the music, is directly related to the amount of involuntary toe-tapping while listening.
> The measurements are recorded mentally on a scale from 1 to 5, where 5 is the highest score.
> A full scale scientific study is awaiting funding from the American Vacuum Tube Manufacturing Association (AVTMA or AA for short) with headquarters in Lansdale, PA.



Based on that article in the link, I predict your toe-tapping rating will correlate with your rating of bass reproduction, with a coefficient R=0.96.  How do we submit this proposal to AVTMA?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> _*Musicians are less picky about sound quality than we are.*_
> This is true in general - I have seen several articles describing sound systems used by musicians, and most of them were very plain or unremarkable.
> There are exceptions, but not the rule....



Absolutely. Look at Paul Simon’s Sound Of Silence. The lyrics came to him in the middle of the night. All he had was a guitar and Art Garfunkel’s incredible voice. The rest was history and all accolades to UntilThen for inspiring Simon to get up in the middle of the night !


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> No, this is a picture of four 5998 tubes. "2399" was IBM's inventory number for the 5998.



Mordy had the counterfeit. His is 2399 but what is needed is 2999 !!!


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> Absolutely. Look at Paul Simon’s Sound Of Silence. The lyrics came to him in the middle of the night. All he had was a guitar and Art Garfunkel’s incredible voice. The rest was history and all accolades to UntilThen for inspiring Simon to get up in the middle of the night !



Similarly all Art Garkunkel had when he sang Bridge Over Trouble Waters was a bridge and lots of troubles.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> Based on that article in the link, I predict your toe-tapping rating will correlate with your rating of bass reproduction, with a coefficient R=0.96.  How do we submit this proposal to AVTMA?


Maybe you have experience in grant submission proposals?

All jokes aside, I am using the same type triple driver configuration as JV, but with different tubes. The interesting thing is that driver tubes that may not sound special on their own take on a totally different level when combined with others.
JV uses the EL32. In the past I used the EL8 in the C3g sockets with very good results when combined with a 6SN7/6SL7 family driver. Now I put in the tubular TFK EL11 and the sound is just great and the best I coaxed out of the GOTL.
I do not have an amp with a rectifier tube - only the built in ss HEXFRED. Don't really know if the same three driver tube configurations will work, or work as well, in an amp with tube rectification.

PS: National Union had a factory in Lansdale, Pennsylvania. NU ceased in 1954 and was bought by Sylvania. You can find 7N7 tubes with the name Lansdale on them.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> Ok, added to the experiment list.  But how does one adapt the EL32's to the C3g sockets?  Is that a custom adapter?  Or available somewhere?


You need custom adapters from Deyan.


----------



## attmci (Oct 2, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Mordy had the counterfeit. His is 2399 but what is needed is 2999 !!!


Does 2999 need a custom adapter from Deyan?


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Maybe you have experience in grant submission proposals?



I've done a few.



mordy said:


> All jokes aside, I am using the same type triple driver configuration as JV, but with different tubes. The interesting thing is that driver tubes that may not sound special on their own take on a totally different level when combined with others.
> JV uses the EL32. In the past I used the EL8 in the C3g sockets with very good results when combined with a 6SN7/6SL7 family driver. Now I put in the tubular TFK EL11 and the sound is just great and the best I coaxed out of the GOTL.
> I do not have an amp with a rectifier tube - only the built in ss HEXFRED. Don't really know if the same three driver tube configurations will work, or work as well, in an amp with tube rectification.



Thanks for the suggestions.  It's not just money to buy all these tubes, it's having time to try them all, in different combinations.  I need to bring this rig to work, but then I'd never get anything done, then the job disappears, then no money to buy tubes.  But lots of time to listen to them .


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Does it need a custom adapter from Deyan?


The 5998 is native to the GOTL and does not need an adapter.
The EL3N (and  EL8), EL11, EL32 all require their own specific adapter to be used in the C3g sockets. As far as I know, the only person that makes adapters for C3g sockets for the GOTL is Deyan.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Does it need a custom adapter from Deyan?



Next question


----------



## GDuss

Night 2 with GOTL:  6x 6BX7 and a 12SN7.  Aeolus is pulling farther into the lead.  I think this combo has less mid-bass, which helps the sub-bass show itself.  HD650 can't keep up.  Plus the Aeolus is clearly more spacious than 650 with this combo.  650 feels cramped tonight.  And the more pleasing tone of Aeolus is still there.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss try the Verite. It’s the ticket to early retirement. Btw that tube combo is very good.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> GDuss try the Verite. It’s the ticket to early retirement. Btw that tube combo is very good.



I am currently doing a good job of exercising restraint and not jumping on a Verite.


----------



## DecentLevi

I see a fair amount of you are using the Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 interconnects. Which lengths are most of you using? I've heard several times from fellow hobbyists that a longer RCA cable results in better sound. They weren't specific as to what / why, that's all they said. Maybe it has something to do with the analogue output of most DAC's being designed for cables of several feet long. I'm considering an interconnect upgrade as well as a power chord upgrade. Maybe I'll go for these Blue Jeans, at least as a modest RCA upgrade, perhaps about one meter. My current interconnects are a medium budget 1 foot specialized cable from a boutique seller with material I don't remember about from few years ago. I also have red Schiit 6" PVST copper cables. And hey, the Blue Jeans are also made in Seattle where I'm at. I don't drive these days so I would still order online.


----------



## lukeap69

GDuss said:


> Night 2 with GOTL:  6x 6BX7 and a 12SN7.  Aeolus is pulling farther into the lead.  I think this combo has less mid-bass, which helps the sub-bass show itself.  HD650 can't keep up.  Plus the Aeolus is clearly more spacious than 650 with this combo.  650 feels cramped tonight.  And the more pleasing tone of Aeolus is still there.



6BX7/6BL7 are not my favourite power tubes for HD650. Try 6AS7 or 6080 or even better 5998 for the HD650. There will be more space, better dynamics, etc. IME. YMMV of course.


----------



## DecentLevi

GDuss said:


> So, yesterday was night 1 with the GOTL.  6x 6BX7 and a National Union 6SL7.  I asked Phantaminum for a rec, and that's what he suggested, for some good low end among other things.  First impression was wow!!!  And that was starting off with the HD650 (you know, the tube-testing headphone ).  I figured I'd give the 650 a shot since I'm most familiar with it, but then I proceeded to leave it on for about an hour.  I take back anything I might have said in the past about the bass on that headphone.  I could live with the 650 on this GOTL/tube combo, and probably be happy.
> 
> Then of course I switched to the Aeolus, which was even more of what I liked from the 650, deeper bass and better texture to it (I think), wider and more evenly distributed stage, great front-to-back depth.  Not huge differences between the two if I'm being honest, which I think speaks to how good the 650 can be with the right gear, but definitely better in each category.  I'm also not very familiar with the Aeolus yet, so grain of salt there, I'm sure the differences will grow as I figure out more of what the ZMF is doing.
> 
> ...


Enjoyed reading your first impressions. Very well done. And is this all with a brand new GOTL without burn-in yet?


----------



## GDuss

DecentLevi said:


> Enjoyed reading your first impressions. Very well done. And is this all with a brand new GOTL without burn-in yet?



Thanks. And it’s not new, it was previously under the care of Phantaminum. He was the original owner.


----------



## GDuss

lukeap69 said:


> 6BX7/6BL7 are not my favourite power tubes for HD650. Try 6AS7 or 6080 or even better 5998 for the HD650. There will be more space, better dynamics, etc. IME. YMMV of course.



I’ll be trying at least one of your suggestions soon.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Here is a picture of the 1/2 5998:




Good one,


----------



## UntilThen

A little adapter cable came today. 6.35mm to 4-Pin XLR Balanced Audio Headphone Adapter Cable 20CM. This is constructed with silver wires. AUD$38 cheap and good.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> I’ll be trying at least one of your suggestions soon.



I see why you only have one 5998. You were using it on your WA3. I have 4 x Tung Sol 5998 and 4 x GEC 6080. Had the best pair of GEC 6as7g but sold it to Monster. I did think of getting a pair of WE 421A but really at this point, I think I have enough of tube goodness. I ain't chasing anymore tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

I have been listening to the ZMF Ori every morning for over two weeks now...Great pairing with Glenns GEL3N amp.
Listening to Peter Green Splinter Group - Soho Live At Ronnie Scotts.
I have changed my build from GOTL with six power sockets to an amp using pentodes as power tubes.

 
 
Great album for those who have not heard it.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I have changed my build from GOTL with six power sockets to an amp using pentodes as power tubes.



Joe, OTL or SET ?


----------



## whirlwind

It will be an SET amp


----------



## UntilThen

Way to go. I'm still waiting on Ken Jie's impression of his GOTL. Hope it's turning out alright. I've only encountered 2 instances where the owners weren't too impressed with their GOTL and in both instances I'm left scratching my head.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Way to go. I'm still waiting on Ken Jie's impression of his GOTL. Hope it's turning out alright. I've only encountered 2 instances where the owners weren't too impressed with their GOTL and in both instances I'm left scratching my head.



It just left customs in Malaysia shoud be on the way to his house


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Way to go. I'm still waiting on Ken Jie's impression of his GOTL. Hope it's turning out alright. I've only encountered 2 instances where the owners weren't too impressed with their GOTL and in both instances I'm left scratching my head.




Some people think that when you listen with tubes that you should always have a back round as black as midnight, and you can, but sometimes you have to work for it and when dealing with tubes it can be quiet today and have a little noise tomorrow.
It is just part of it.

Some people are fine until they turn the music off then turn the volume to max only to hear a bit of noise.
To me if I don't hear the noise with music playing then nothing to do except enjoy the music....many people have OCD about this....I am not one of them, lol.

If you are running nine or ten tubes in an amp, chances are very good that at some point there will be a small amount of noise.

If you want your best chance at no noise, just grab a solid state amp...there is nothing wrong with that what so ever. I usually recommend them if people say they need a dead silent back round.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> It just left customs in Malaysia shoud be on the way to his house



He should be very excited.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Some people think that when you listen with tubes that you should always have a back round as black as midnight, and you can, but sometimes you have to work for it and when dealing with tubes it can be quiet today and have a little noise tomorrow.
> It is just part of it.
> 
> Some people are fine until they turn the music off then turn the volume to max only to hear a bit of noise.
> ...



Nope. In those 2 instances it has nothing to do with less than perfect black background. That's why I'm left scratching my head because SQ wise, the GOTL is one musical amp. Forget science. This amp is about enjoying your music. Pretty much what the Verite is too. No wonder they pair so well.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 2, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Nope. In those 2 instances it has nothing to do with less than perfect black background. That's why I'm left scratching my head because SQ wise, the GOTL is one musical amp. Forget science. This amp is about enjoying your music. Pretty much what the Verite is too. No wonder they pair so well.



I just use the black back round as an example because I have gotten a few pm's regarding this.
Probably mostly from people who have never used tubes, but I can not verify that, just my guess.
I have had tubes that take a few weeks to settle down...some tubes take a good hour of playing to sound their best.
Some tubes sit on shelve's for decades asleep...takes awhile for them to wake up so to speak.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I just use the black back round as an example because I have gotten a few pm's regarding this.
> Probably mostly from people who have never used tubes, but I can not verify that, just my guess.
> I have had tubes that take a few weeks to settle down...some tubes take a good hour of playing to sound their best.
> Some tubes sit on shelve's for decades asleep...takes awhile for them to wake up so to speak.



My GOTL is almost as quiet as the Studio Six now with Mullard EL32 and 6bx7gt. Pretty amazing. In one of the instance, I was told by the owner that he prefer his ss amp over GOTL and that's a pretty ordinary ss amp. Not even Ragnarok calibre. I sold off Ragnarok because I prefer GOTL. 

Goes to show that there are differing preferences so I can't expect everyone to have my same taste.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh well everyone that comes to me, my recommendation would be GOTL. In my opinion, the SQ of GOTL is right up there with the best and in some tube combination, it's as quiet as any. In the event that any new owners of GOTL who got it based on my recommendation and didn't like it, then it's just too bad. Can't please everyone.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> I see why you only have one 5998. You were using it on your WA3.



Exactly the reason.



UntilThen said:


> I ain't chasing anymore tubes.



Good luck, I will be following your progress closely to see how it goes.


----------



## chrisdrop

Hello all,

In anticipation of a forthcoming GOTL , I am looking for 6x 6BX7s. I have seen other recent comments that it is hard to expect 6x matched identical NOS tubes. Any thoughts or preferences given the below options? (via Billington in the UK). Too much to mix and match across the lot? I think there are some pretty strong prefs for NOS, they don't have enough to do so. Thoughts on the seller also welcome !

6BX7GT. 3x  RCA, 2x other USA NOS. 
6BX7GT GE Grade 1 USA. Grade one of the better used tubes. Good appearance. 80% emission tested and guaranteed. 5x.
Also - the 6B*L*7s seem more plentiful and inexpensive. I have seen them mentioned (recently). Compare/ contrast to the 6BX7s?

Tx in advance for any thoughts/ feelings 

-Chris


----------



## gibosi

chrisdrop said:


> 6BX7GT. 3x RCA, 2x other USA NOS.
> 6BX7GT GE Grade 1 USA. Grade one of the better used tubes. Good appearance. 80% emission tested and guaranteed. 5x.
> Also - the 6B*L*7s seem more plentiful and inexpensive. I have seen them mentioned (recently). Compare/ contrast to the 6BX7s?



I just buy these tubes on eBay, one or two at a time. In my opinion, if they test NOS or close they are fine. Also RCA and Tung-Sol didn't begin to make these tubes until around 1960. Before that time, they were sourcing them from GE and Sylvania. So unless you can see pictures it is hard to know if they are really RCA or TS.

6BL7 has an amplification factor of 15 while the 6BX7 is 10. As a result, running 6BX7s might be a bit quieter. And in my opinion, the 6BL7 tends to be a bit warmer than the 6BX7.


----------



## Phantaminum

chrisdrop said:


> Hello all,
> 
> In anticipation of a forthcoming GOTL , I am looking for 6x 6BX7s. I have seen other recent comments that it is hard to expect 6x matched identical NOS tubes. Any thoughts or preferences given the below options? (via Billington in the UK). Too much to mix and match across the lot? I think there are some pretty strong prefs for NOS, they don't have enough to do so. Thoughts on the seller also welcome !
> 
> ...



The easiest imo to find and match up are the GE 6BX7. They have a distinct marking on the glass. As long as you see the dots, from whichever mfg, it’s a GE. The only other thing you have to match up is the mica and top getters (O-getters are plentiful while square getters are harder to find).

6BX7 have less amplification gain to them so they work better with noisier tubes; although not by much. While 6BL7 have a higher amplification gain so noisier tubes will be much more noticeable.


----------



## leftside

It seems like the manufacturers of 6BL7 and 6BX7 changed the construction of these tubes every year. Triple micas, double micas, side getters, top getters, halo getters, rectangular getters, different plate construction (2 hole, 3 hole, etc), T plates, laddered plates, etc. For us with slight OCD (i.e. most of us on here) it can be quite the adventure finding 4, let alone 6, that have exactly the same construction and test well. And some people like to mix them up anyway


----------



## UntilThen

chrisdrop said:


> Hello all,
> 
> In anticipation of a forthcoming GOTL , I am looking for 6x 6BX7s. I have seen other recent comments that it is hard to expect 6x matched identical NOS tubes. Any thoughts or preferences given the below options? (via Billington in the UK). Too much to mix and match across the lot? I think there are some pretty strong prefs for NOS, they don't have enough to do so. Thoughts on the seller also welcome !
> 
> ...



You already have good replies. Personally I don't have a problem with GE 6bx7s (if that's all you can find) or mixing different brands of 6bx7s. I mean ideally I would get the same construction and brand (because I'm OCD - my pens have to be arranged in straight formations on my desk - papers have to be neatly stack. You get the idea. ) but if you can't get the same type then roll with what you can get. I prefer 6bx7 because it's less in your face.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> 6BL7 has an amplification factor of 15 while the 6BX7 is 10. As a result, running 6BX7s might be a bit quieter.



An important factor why I prefer 6bx7. Similarly EL32 is also much lower gain. Hence the combination of EL32s and 6bx7s is very quiet. Just turn up the volume to 12 noon and it will be loud and yet still very quiet noise levels. 

The other thing that turns me off is excessive heat. A reason why I don't use Cetron 6336b much or hardly at all now. My headphones are both 300 ohms so no reason to use the 6336b.

Every day I would decide which of the 3 amps to power on for my music listening session. The Sansui hardly gets turn on except when I want to listen through speakers. Lately I've been turning GOTL all the time, especially since the weekend when I finally decide that I like EL32 with 6bx7s or 5998.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 2, 2019)

Studio Six would sit there gesturing at me - Hello what about me? I ain't here to sit looking pretty ! Studio Six now has Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, Brimar 6V6gt black glass, Mullard OB2, GEC U52.

So I plug my Verite jack into Studio Six now and wow....  So both tube amps sounding great !!! and at 4:32am in the morning, it's madness having such choices. I will listen to Sound of Silence now and see what inspires Paul Simon to write this iconic song.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow the lyrics of Sound Of Silence - it's pure poetry. Here 2 much older Simon and Garfunkel sings better than any modern acoustic bands. 2009 performance. That's 10 years ago. 

Hello darkness my old friend, it's time I go to sleep again...


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I see why you only have one 5998. You were using it on your WA3. I have 4 x Tung Sol 5998 and 4 x GEC 6080. Had the best pair of GEC 6as7g but sold it to Monster. I did think of getting a pair of WE 421A but really at this point, I think I have enough of tube goodness. I ain't chasing anymore tubes.


No way.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> No way.



Ain't sleeping now. Showering and will wander into office, doing it my way, as with tubes, amps, headphones, dac, cables, wires, fuse. My way. I decide when it starts and I decides when it ends.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm singing this to my tubes now. 

Please release me and let me go. For I don't love you anymore. I have found a new love, dear. Her lips are warm where yours are cold. Release me, darling, let me go.


----------



## UntilThen

Well time to earn another dollar. Ken Jie, I want that report on my desk tomorrow morning and it better be good or I'll be coming to Kuala Lumpur for ya !


----------



## UntilThen

About to hop into the shower but got a message from GDuss. 

You're on the right track my friend ! and keep those impressions coming. Remember do it your way


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> About to hop into the shower but got a message from GDuss.
> 
> You're on the right track my friend ! and keep those impressions coming. Remember do it your way



Don't let me get in the way of your normal daily activities (I don't want to be blamed for that).  I'm just trying to ask for your help, by not talking me into getting a Verite .  It's hard enough to say no as it is.  And I'm weak.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Don't let me get in the way of your normal daily activities (I don't want to be blamed for that).  I'm just trying to ask for your help, by not talking me into getting a Verite .  It's hard enough to say no as it is.  And I'm weak.



Ha you ain't getting in my way because some time in the future I'll need a brain scan. If it's not too late for that.  

No mate anytime. You can talk to me anytime here or in private. Come visit me in Sydney.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Ha you ain't getting in my way because some time in the future I'll need a brain scan. If it's not too late for that.
> 
> No mate anytime. You can talk to me anytime here or in private. Come visit me in Sydney.



Be careful inviting crazy scientists over, and especially letting them near your tubes!!!


----------



## Monsterzero

My beloved GEC U18/20 survived!
Thank you @2359glenn for coming to the rescue with a new adapter,and fast shipping! Very much appreciated.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> My beloved GEC U18/20 survived!
> Thank you @2359glenn for coming to the rescue with a new adapter,and fast shipping! Very much appreciated.



In my experience rectifiers are very tough tubes, so I am not surprised. But for sure, this is very good news. Enjoy.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> My beloved GEC U18/20 survived!
> Thank you @2359glenn for coming to the rescue with a new adapter,and fast shipping! Very much appreciated.



Glad to hear that the tube made it through the chaos...enjoy!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> Hello all,
> 
> In anticipation of a forthcoming GOTL , I am looking for 6x 6BX7s. I have seen other recent comments that it is hard to expect 6x matched identical NOS tubes. Any thoughts or preferences given the below options? (via Billington in the UK). Too much to mix and match across the lot? I think there are some pretty strong prefs for NOS, they don't have enough to do so. Thoughts on the seller also welcome !
> 
> ...



I know you have gotten many answers already, Chris, but if you do not mind paying the international shipping, Jim Cross at vacuumtubes.net should still have many 6BX7 and 6BL7 tubes available.  A few months ago he told me he had 200 and 400, respectively.  I would be shocked if they had all disappeared by now!  Should be able to make you a set of GE 6BX7 at least, more variety I am sure with the 6BL7.

By the way, did anyone know that Fivre made a 6BL7?  Well they did, spotted it a while back.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6BL7GT-FIV...633308?hash=item5b59eb8d5c:g:phAAAOSwCDZbHoCg

Appears to have the same flat plates as the early Sylvania 6BL7.  No chance on a full set, but could be a nice decorative piece


----------



## carlman14

L0rdGwyn said:


> I would be shocked if they had all disappeared by now! Should be able to make you a set of GE 6BX7 at least



@chrisdrop I also recommend looking at vacuumtubes.net. I ordered a couple sets of 6BX7's from Jim recently. He told me he can make sextets of:
1950s GE
1960s GE branded RCA
1960s Sylvania


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I am packing tubes for ZMFestivus.  This is where the alphas are separated from the betas, my heart cannot lie.  Those who are left behind, forgive me.


----------



## 2359glenn

GDuss said:


> Be careful inviting crazy scientists over, and especially letting them near your tubes!!!



I am a mad scientist!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> My beloved GEC U18/20 survived!
> Thank you @2359glenn for coming to the rescue with a new adapter,and fast shipping! Very much appreciated.



Not a adapter I am proud of but it works.
Do you want a better looking one or is that OK.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I am a mad scientist!!



All mad scientists invited down under. Together with this audio maniac, we will create a Frankenstein.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Not a adapter I am proud of but it works.
> Do you want a better looking one or is that OK.



I can send you two unmodified Chinese adapters with yellow tops if you would like to have them.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Not a adapter I am proud of but it works.
> Do you want a better looking one or is that OK.


 All that im concerned about is that it works. Thanks.


----------



## mordy

carlman14 said:


> @chrisdrop I also recommend looking at vacuumtubes.net. I ordered a couple sets of 6BX7's from Jim recently. He told me he can make sextets of:
> 1950s GE
> 1960s GE branded RCA
> 1960s Sylvania


I have 8 6BX7 tubes (all GE) and some 25 6BL7 tubes from various brands. If my memory serves me right re the BL tubes, the flat parallel plate Sylvanias were the best sounding.
I found it tricky to figure out which tubes were noisy since you need 6 of them (4 will also do). Played through speakers and used a balance control to pick up which channel had the noise - that reduced the search to three tubes. You could probably just listen to one side of the headphones to accomplish the same thing.Then I pulled out one tube at a time and replaced it (if necessary) until I found the culprit(s).
Maybe it would be better to start with two tubes at a time, but I have the feeling that the tubes interact with each other as well. Then you also have unknown situations where just switching the position of two tubes can cure the noise.....


----------



## GDuss

2359glenn said:


> I am a mad scientist!!



You are conquering the planet, 1 (or 6) tubes at a time


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 2, 2019)




----------



## 2359glenn

GDuss said:


> You are conquering the planet, 1 (or 6) tubes at a time





GDuss said:


> You are conquering the planet, 1 (or 6) tubes at a time



6


----------



## GDuss

2359glenn said:


> 6



I like your style of science.  Aim high.


----------



## chrisdrop

Thank you all for the very helpful comments. Sort of a bulk comment back...

As I believe @GDuss was saying the other day - you all are a top flight marketing and support team for Glenn amps!



L0rdGwyn said:


> I know you have gotten many answers already, Chris, but if you do not mind paying the international shipping, Jim Cross at vacuumtubes.net should still have many 6BX7 and 6BL7 tubes available. A few months ago he told me he had 200 and 400, respectively. I would be shocked if they had all disappeared by now! Should be able to make you a set of GE 6BX7 at least, more variety I am sure with the 6BL7.





carlman14 said:


> @chrisdrop I also recommend looking at vacuumtubes.net. I ordered a couple sets of 6BX7's from Jim recently. He told me he can make sextets of:
> 1950s GE
> 1960s GE branded RCA
> 1960s Sylvania



@L0rdGwyn & @carlman14 - thanks for the refs to vacuumtubes.net. To get a more matched set, it is likely worth it to get them shipped. They are (thankfully) not very expensive tubes 

@mordy - you have been very helpful on multiple threads. Thanks for adding to this one too.

@L0rdGwyn have fun in ZMF-land ! A bit jealous, but TOO FAR for me.

@gibosi - you said something like _"6BL7 has an amplification factor of 15 while the 6BX7 is 10. "_. Aside from simply being knowledgable, where do you find such details?


----------



## whirlwind

@chrisdrop 
http://www.r-type.org/exhib/abh0123.htm
click the pdf file at the bottom


----------



## OctavianH

I used from time to time the TDSL (Tube Data Sheet Locator) free software:
https://en.freedownloadmanager.org/Windows-PC/TDSL-Personal-Edition-FREE.html
It is not updated and some of the links are not working anymore, however it contains a lot of interesting information and takes only 1MB from your storage.
On Windows 10 it does not appear in the program list but can be opened easily directly from the installation folder or you can just easily create a shortcut for the executable.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> @gibosi - you said something like _"6BL7 has an amplification factor of 15 while the 6BX7 is 10. "_. Aside from simply being knowledgable, where do you find such details?



This is a great question, thanks for asking it.  It also relates to something UT posted a few days ago, about the maximum amperes allowed in a Glenn amp (which was 13 amps in his case), and what tube options you can use to stay under that maximum.


----------



## Phantaminum

Got two big deliverables I'm working on. Stressing out from the time crunch. Woke up this morning and got myself pumped by listening to a little Racer X - Technical Difficulties.

Oh yeah, that got the blood pumping with some double shot of espresso. Let's do this.


----------



## GDuss

Phantaminum said:


> Got two big deliverables I'm working on. Stressing out from the time crunch. Woke up this morning and got myself pumped by listening to a little Racer X - Technical Difficulties.
> 
> Oh yeah, that got the blood pumping with some double shot of espresso. Let's do this.




You got this!!!  And if not, triple espresso to the rescue.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> @gibosi - you said something like _"6BL7 has an amplification factor of 15 while the 6BX7 is 10. "_. Aside from simply being knowledgable, where do you find such details?





GDuss said:


> This is a great question, thanks for asking it.  It also relates to something UT posted a few days ago, about the maximum amperes allowed in a Glenn amp (which was 13 amps in his case), and what tube options you can use to stay under that maximum.



Thanks, should be a good time 

In addition to what has already been posted, here are some other tube data resources.

For tube data/specifications/equivalent types, I like Radiomuseum, I think there is a one-time $25 registration fee: https://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_searchtubes.cfm. 

I also look directly at tube spec sheets, I like Frank's Electron Tube Datasheets: https://frank.pocnet.net/


----------



## mordy

You don’t have to pay to use the Radiomuseum but some features will not be available- still extremely informative.


----------



## JazzVinyl

6BL7 complete data sheet:

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/093/6/6BL7GTA.pdf

The GOTL 13 amp limit refers to all the tubes in the GOTL - add up the "Heater Current" as seen in the PDF data sheet.  In the case of 6BL7 it is 1.5 amps per tube.  6x 6BL7's uses a total of 1.5 x 6 = 9 amps.  Which leaves you 4 amps of current for the driver(s),

You can also clearly see the "Amplification Factor" of 15 on the data sheet as well.


----------



## leftside

I think I've done a pretty good job setting up my turntable and cart, but this vinyl freak and techno geek has been intrigued by a product called AnalogMagik: https://www.analogmagik.com/turntable-setup

I'd been looking on the used market for a year or two, but with no luck. I was about ready to jump in and purchase new, but a kind fellow over on the VPI forum offered to sell me his. It's going to make for a fun (hopefully) rainy weekend project. For those close the eyes, listen to a full LP, sit back in the chair moments, it's still tough to beat vinyl + tubes. I'll report back later. I know only a few of you on here will be interested, so I'll keep it short.


----------



## GDuss

I'm looking for input from the experts here, and thanks in advance for any advice you have.  

So far with the GOTL there is some noise that is like crackling, sometimes squealing, and only in the right channel.  It's not always there, but more often right now than not.  It's also not always loud enough to hear during music, but sometimes it is.  Changing the volume has no influence on this noise.  There is also a hum that gets louder with volume, but at normal volume levels I don't really care about it.

My first thought was tubes.  This has been with 6x 6BX7s and either one 6SL7 or one 12SN7.  Changing the driver tube didn't influence this noise, so that suggested the power tubes.  Taking a cue from what @mordy was talking about yesterday related to switching out 1 tube at a time, I figured I would do a first trial by just taking all 3 power tubes in the right side sockets and reversing them with all 3 power tubes that were in the left sockets to see if that did anything different.  It didn't, still the same (or at least similar) noise, and still on the right.  This may not have been the ideal experiment, but I won't claim to be good at designing GOTL experiments yet.  

The question is, should this power tube swap have shifted the noise to the left channel if the noise was tube related or is that not a proper expectation based on the design of the amp?  Assuming this should have shifted the noise from right to left, and it didn't, that would suggest it isn't the tubes.  

Next thought is it could be the sockets, which is probably not unreasonable given the amp was just recently packed up and moved, which is a good opportunity for dust etc to get into the sockets.  If it's sockets, and they need to be cleaned (which maybe is a good plan anyway), what is the preferred method of cleaning?  I've been searching on the web about this and it seems like there are about 10 different options for cleaning, some sound more dangerous than others.

What do you think?  Tubes?  Sockets?  Neither?  Suck it up and deal with the noise?  I am not aiming for a perfectly black background etc (I've had tube amps before, I know how it goes), but that doesn't mean I won't try solutions if they are reasonable.  I mean, I can't expect a perfectly black background anyway, at least not with open headphones and air conditioning running in the hot Texas weather .  Looking forward to cooler temperatures and blacker backgrounds.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 3, 2019)

GDuss said:


> I'm looking for input from the experts here, and thanks in advance for any advice you have.
> 
> So far with the GOTL there is some noise that is like crackling, sometimes squealing, and only in the right channel.  It's not always there, but more often right now than not.  It's also not always loud enough to hear during music, but sometimes it is.  Changing the volume has no influence on this noise.  There is also a hum that gets louder with volume, but at normal volume levels I don't really care about it.
> 
> ...



The tubes are the most likely culprit.  A combination of 6SL7 and 6BX7 is a lot of gain and will amplify any noise.

To rule out the tubes, I would try different drivers and powers and see if the noise persists.  If it does, you could try cleaning the sockets with isopropyl alcohol.  If that doesn't help, the next thing I would do, personally, is reflow the socket solder joints, but you'd have to be handy with a soldering iron, might need to ask Glenn for solutions at that point.

If you find it is the 6BX7, try using just two or four to isolate the bad tube (or tubes).  If there are multiple noisy tubes, that could explain why your right/left switch didn't work.  I would try different powers altogether to be sure.


----------



## Phantaminum

GDuss said:


> I'm looking for input from the experts here, and thanks in advance for any advice you have.
> 
> So far with the GOTL there is some noise that is like crackling, sometimes squealing, and only in the right channel.  It's not always there, but more often right now than not.  It's also not always loud enough to hear during music, but sometimes it is.  Changing the volume has no influence on this noise.  There is also a hum that gets louder with volume, but at normal volume levels I don't really care about it.
> 
> ...



You may have to divide and conquer when it comes to the 6BX7s. Try this, use only two power tubes and a 12SN7 (CBS was quiet to me). See if you hear any noise. Then try four tubes, then six. See which combination may be making noise. I never fully got the 6BX7s to be as quiet as the Russian or 6336 tubes and rolled with it but I'm not sure how bad the static is. Also, try to move the 6BX7s around. Some times that does the trick.


----------



## Monsterzero

Its been my experience that often times noise can depend on the combo in place.
Ive been using the KR VT231/GEC U18/20 and 6x GE 6BX7s. Theres always been this low level hum in either the right or left channel. I chalked it up to the 6BX7s,so I cleanen all the pins,which helped,but didnt eliminate it completely.
Then I thought it was adapter for the U18/20 as when I use my GZ34 theres no hum,but then last night I tried a 12v Bad boy I picked up from Phanta recently. The Bad boy/U18/20/GE 6bx7s was deathly silent. So I cleaned the pins of the KR VT231 and last night the original combo was silent. 

I saw no gunk on the KR VT231 prior to cleaning either.

So in some combos the KR was silent. In others it wasnt. As I said to you in a PM, tube rolling in the GOTL is an adventure. Enjoy the ride.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> To rule out the tubes, I would try different drivers and powers and see if the noise persists. If it does, you could try cleaning the sockets with isopropyl alcohol. If that doesn't help, the next thing I would do, personally, is reflow the socket solder joints, but you'd have to be handy with a soldering iron, might need to ask Glenn for solutions at that point.
> 
> If you find it is the 6BX7, try using just two or four to isolate the bad tube (or tubes). If there are multiple noisy tubes, that could explain why your right/left switch didn't work. I would try different powers altogether to be sure.



Thanks, I will try completely different power tubes first, then try cleaning sockets.



Phantaminum said:


> You may have to divide and conquer when it comes to the 6BX7s. Try this, use only two power tubes and a 12SN7 (CBS was quiet to me). See if you hear any noise. Then try four tubes, then six. See which combination may be making noise. I never fully got the 6BX7s to be as quiet as the Russian or 6336 tubes and rolled with it but I'm not sure how bad the static is. Also, try to move the 6BX7s around. Some times that does the trick.



Thanks to you as well.  Sounds like you and L0rdGwyn are on the same page.  It's easier to just switch to different power tubes first, but I like the idea of dropping down to 2 6BX7s, then going up from there.  The static was pretty loud last night, audible during relatively loud music.  This was after swapping all the same 6BX7s around before powering up. 



Monsterzero said:


> Its been my experience that often times noise can depend on the combo in place.



I appreciate the input.  This seems like a logical step one.  I'll also be able to test 2x TS 5998s in the power slots next week, so that will be informative.



Monsterzero said:


> As I said to you in a PM, tube rolling in the GOTL is an adventure. Enjoy the ride.



Experiments don't always work.  Actually, most of the time they don't.  If one out of three are a success, that's a hall-of-fame batting average.


----------



## Phantaminum

GDuss said:


> Thanks to you as well.  Sounds like you and L0rdGwyn are on the same page.  It's easier to just switch to different power tubes first, but I like the idea of dropping down to 2 6BX7s, then going up from there.  The static was pretty loud last night, audible during relatively loud music.



Let us know how it goes. If you try the Tung Sol BGRP I know for certain that did not have any sound as that was one of the last tubes I tried out on the GOTL before delivery.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I think I've done a pretty good job setting up my turntable and cart, but this vinyl freak and techno geek has been intrigued by a product called AnalogMagik: https://www.analogmagik.com/turntable-setup
> 
> I'd been looking on the used market for a year or two, but with no luck. I was about ready to jump in and purchase new, but a kind fellow over on the VPI forum offered to sell me his. It's going to make for a fun (hopefully) rainy weekend project. For those close the eyes, listen to a full LP, sit back in the chair moments, it's still tough to beat vinyl + tubes. I'll report back later. I know only a few of you on here will be interested, so I'll keep it short.



I'm one of those who find great joy with vinyl and tube amps. There's no greater joy than to sit back and enjoy an album or 2 with my son and I'll be doing it this weekend when I take the leisurely drive home. My TT is a Rega Rp8 with Apheta cartridge that has been professionally installed by Sydney Hifi so I did not need to install another cartridge.


----------



## GDuss

Phantaminum said:


> Let us know how it goes. If you try the Tung Sol BGRP I know for certain that did not have any sound as that was one of the last tubes I tried out on the GOTL before delivery.



On my list now.  Stay tuned.


----------



## Monsterzero

GDuss said:


> On my list now.  Stay tuned.


The Tung Sol black glass round plate is a phenomenal sounding driver,probably my favorite,but like any other tube,its all about what other tubes,and headphones that you pair it up with.


----------



## mordy

All the trouble shooting suggestions made are good ones, but I would leave cleaning the sockets as the last alternative. Some people use tiny brushes for applying cosmetics dipped in alcohol to clean the socket pin holes, but I have never bothered with it. Just take a tube with clean pins and insert and pull out a few times. The only times I really picked up dirt and oxidation this way was from adapters....
*As far as listening is concerned,  I am satisfied if I don't hear any noise when playing music. *
My setup is probably different from most people since I listen mainly through speakers. The signal goes through a ss preamp section with tone (rarely used) and volume controls after the GOTL. By experimenting with the volume control on both the preamp and the GOTL, I use settings on both at around 9-10 o'clock for an almost silent background even at levels too loud for listening (turning GOTL to max without music playing).
Every time I put in a new tube, I let it warm up a bit, then plug in the sacrificial headphones to check that everything is OK. After that I turn on the speakers, and without music, turn the GOTL volume to max. Sometimes there is some noise, sometimes almost none, and once in a while, total silence. But as said, playing at normal to loud levels, there is no noise most of the time. And if there is something faint (very rarely), it is masked when playing music.


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> The Tung Sol black glass round plate is a phenomenal sounding driver,probably my favorite,but like any other tube,its all about what other tubes,and headphones that you pair it up with.



Well let's see if we can get this one to work in my setup.  It's now at the top of the list.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> As far as listening is concerned, I am satisfied if I don't hear any noise when playing music.



I'm totally on board with this goal.  Any noise that I have to turn up the amp without music to hear is noise I'm not worried about.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm glad there's a discussion about noise in certain tube combinations in GOTL because after living with the Glenn Super 9 OTL amp for almost 2 years, I know on the back of my hand which are my quiet tube combinations. As some of you have pointed out, it's not in the drivers or power tubes themselves. It's the combination of some of these that cause either hum or crackles or both. There are of course some tubes that are just noisy no matter what you combine them with. I am not one to use the soldering iron to tame these recalcitrant tubes. So I usually dismiss them or give them away.

These are my super quiet combinations. There are more so I won't list them all. Remember it's tube dependent. SO if my Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp with 6 x GE 6bx7gt is quiet, it doesn't mean it will be quiet for you with the exact same tubes. My said combination might have super quiet properties than yours. 

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with any of my sextet 6BX7 or 6BL7. This is when I love GOTL to death. It's so quiet I have almost total love for GOTL and this combination is pure class.

Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp with any of my sextet 6BX7 or 6BL7. This is bit more fickle. Sometimes it does have some slight noise. Most times it's just super quiet.

Mullard EL32 with 6 x GE 6BX7gt. Super quiet. Again love GOTL and the tubes to death for this.

Almost any of my super drivers (Siemens c3g, Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp, Ken Rad 1633, Mullard EC33, ECC35, GEC B36, etc) with a pair of Tung Sol 5998, GEC 6as7g (when I had them), GEC 6080, Svetlana 6H13c, RCA 6as7g, Cetron 7236, Bendix 6080wb, Cetron 6336b) - all these are super quiet. I love GOTL to death with these combos.

I bought most of my tubes NOS and of the best quality because I believe in spoiling GOTL with the best tubes. Not cheap. My tubes alone could get me a GEL3N. Did I regret it? Of course not. GOTL with a quiet tube combination is like heaven to my ears. I'm still not convince that my Studio Six sounds better than a super tube combo quiet GOTL. Musically they are on par. As quiet as GOTL with the quietest tubes is, Studio Six is eerily quiet. As quiet as my SS amps.

On another note, if I had to name the quietest driver and power tube that I have in my range, it would be the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base (GBP 175 - single tube) and pair of GEC 6as7g (US$500 from Stavros). It was with a great reluctance that I sold my GEC 6as7g and if Monsterzero wants to sell them back to me for US$500, I'll take it in a flash. That pair is so NOS it's not funny and it comes with the preferred curve brown base.

That's my 2 cents on a Friday morning at 3:44am. I'm about to write a legend of a song like Paul Simon !


----------



## Monsterzero

GDuss said:


> Well let's see if we can get this one to work in my setup.  It's now at the top of the list.


I have found these threads to be a great resource.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/

and for if/when you ever get an amp that has a tube rectifier...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> it would be the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base (GBP 175 - single tube)


 Am i expecting too much,or would this 7N7 be the equivalent to your Syl 6Sn7?




 



UntilThen said:


> and pair of GEC 6as7g (US$500 from Stavros). It was with a great reluctance that I sold my GEC 6as7g and if Monsterzero wants to sell them back to me for US$500, I'll take it in a flash.


 Never say never,but im so enjoying my current tube roll that I have no interest in rolling at the moment.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> I'm glad there's a discussion about noise in certain tube combinations in GOTL because after living with the Glenn Super 9 OTL amp for almost 2 years, I know on the back of my hand which are my quiet tube combinations. As some of you have pointed out, it's not in the drivers or power tubes themselves. It's the combination of some of these that cause either hum or crackles or both. There are of course some tubes that are just noisy no matter what you combine them with. I am not one to use the soldering iron to tame these recalcitrant tubes. So I usually dismiss them or give them away.
> 
> These are my super quiet combinations. There are more so I won't list them all. Remember it's tube dependent. SO if my Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp with 6 x GE 6bx7gt is quiet, it doesn't mean it will be quiet for you with the exact same tubes. My said combination might have super quiet properties than yours.
> 
> ...



2 years from now, I will make a similar post.  Maybe sooner, who knows.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> 2 years from now, I will make a similar post.  Maybe sooner, who knows.



2 years from now I'll be singing in Berlin about Berlin !


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> I have found these threads to be a great resource.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/
> 
> ...



Super helpful, as always.  Some serious reading there.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Am i expecting too much,or would this 7N7 be the equivalent to your Syl 6Sn7?
> 
> 
> 
> Never say never,but im so enjoying my current tube roll that I have no interest in rolling at the moment.



I know some have claimed that a Sylvania 7N7 is similar in tone to a Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. I can only smile at that. 

YES !  Darren if you're agreeable let that pair of GEC 6as7g come back to me. I miss them babies. See this beautiful Mona Lisa I took of them.


----------



## UntilThen

Total silence ! Did everyone just leave the room because of my singing?


----------



## GDuss

We're probably all staring at the Mona Lisa you just posted.  I was at least.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> We're probably all staring at the Mona Lisa you just posted.  I was at least.



Dang I shouldn't have posted them. Now Monster won't send Mona Lisa back to Leonardo da Vinci UT.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I know some have claimed that a Sylvania 7N7 is similar in tone to a Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. I can only smile at that.
> 
> YES !  Darren if you're agreeable let that pair of GEC 6as7g come back to me. I miss them babies. See this beautiful Mona Lisa I took of them.


Have you compared the 7N7 vs. your 6SN7,or no? I have that tube currently,waiting on an adapter to arrive from Bulgaria,but now im paranoid about adapters. If the sound is similar I may swallow my paranoia.

Yeah those GECs are stunning sounding and looking,and oh so rare,but geez the VC loves 6BX7s. IDK. If I do decide to sell them you will be the first I contact before posting them. Deal?


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> If I do decide to sell them you will be the first I contact before posting them. Deal?



Yes let me know. Don't sell them to anyone but Leonardo da Vinci.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Have you compared the 7N7 vs. your 6SN7,or no?



I have compared a 7N7 (not similar to yours) with the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and they are not even close. I doubt the long 7N7 would even be similar or everyone would be grabbing those instead of a Sylvania 6sn7w metal base.

This was my Elise with Sylvania 7N7 with 5998 at my first Sydney audio meet back in 2016. I did think highly of this combo to choose it to demo Elise at the meet. Of course everyone flock to the Blue Hawaii and Stax SR-009 / 007 table. Elise had tough competition that year.


----------



## mordy

I don't have the metal base 6SN7W, but I have the Frankie 7N7:



Instead of a portrait of Mona Lisa, let's go to architecture: The Glenn Skyline:


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Am i expecting too much,or would this 7N7 be the equivalent to your Syl 6Sn7?
> 
> 
> 
> Never say never,but im so enjoying my current tube roll that I have no interest in rolling at the moment.



There’s a tube out there that sounds like the 6SN7 Three Hole BB in the 7n7s. They call it the Frankenstein. The top is more flat than that and the bottom mica is a race track which the mica matched up but not the top (too rounded off). The rest sound like the normal Sylvania 6SN7s which is a good thing.

I’ve been wanting to listen to a National Union made 7n7 which I think is the only other mfg that made these tubes other than Sylvania.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 3, 2019)

That pair of Tung Sol 5998 was purchased from a seller in Vietnam for US$238 in 2016. The seller told me it was from an abandoned US military warehouse when the troops left Saigon in a hurried withdrawal.

That pair of 5998 came to me wrapped in many layers of bubble wrap and was placed in a tupperware lunch box. It is the most stunning new, gleaming, mother of pearl 5998 that I've ever seen. This pair I will not let go. It's quieter than silence !


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> There’s a tube out there that sounds like the 6SN7 Three Hole BB in the 7n7s. They call it the Frankenstein. The top is more flat than that and the bottom mica is a race track which the mica matched up but not the top (too rounded off). The rest sound like the normal Sylvania 6SN7s which is a good thing.
> 
> I’ve been wanting to listen to a National Union made 7n7 which I think is the only other mfg that made these tubes other than Sylvania.


Yeah ive read about the sonic virtues of the Frankie. Ive been looking for one recently,but I havent spotted one yet.


----------



## UntilThen

There it is the front pair of 5998. My mother of pearl 5998.   Behind is another pair of 5998 and partnered with Sylvania 6sn7w metal base.

This combination SQ is through the roof and super quiet.


----------



## UntilThen

And this is Mona Lisa


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 3, 2019)

If you're interested in Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, you should grab this. It's the same but without the metal base. It's Mona Lisa in the nude !

I'll buy a pair for backup. I bought my metal base from Langrex too some time ago.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6SN7A-V...m3fcb7c3cc6:g:SQoAAOSw0lVdelGu&frcectupt=true


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> There it is the front pair of 5998. My mother of pearl 5998.   Behind is another pair of 5998 and partnered with Sylvania 6sn7w metal base.
> 
> This combination SQ is through the roof and super quiet.



The Sylvania 6SN7W is one of my favorite tubes. It’s like the Tung Sol but a bit more force behind it and it throws up huge images.

Beauty right there UT.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> The Sylvania 6SN7W is one of my favorite tubes. It’s like the Tung Sol but a bit more force behind it and it throws up huge images.
> 
> Beauty right there UT.



Thanks Phantom. You're a gentleman as usual.

Sylvania 6sn7w metal base is quite different from Tung Sol 6sn7gt bgrp. It's much clearer, with better treble extension and airier but the impact is is amazing. The bass punch and soundstage is first class. I do like the Tung Sol 6sn7gt brgp a lot too. Just a different presentation. As usual preferences can differ. Those gurus in the 6sn7 Reference view the Tung Sol 6sn7gt bgrp as the best 6sn7 but I beg to differ.

Here it is siting in the driver's seat in Studio Six.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> The Sylvania 6SN7W is one of my favorite tubes.



Did you sell the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with the GOTL? Hope you kept it or GDuss will be smiling.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Did you sell the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with the GOTL? Hope you kept it or GDuss will be smiling.



I kept all of the expensive tubes and 6SN7s (Sorry GDuss) and gave him most if not all of the 12SN7s. Strangely enough this tube sounds a bit too warm on the Teton and Zach’s headphones. I think with the HD800 coming in it’ll be a perfect fit. 

Some of the great tubes he has are the 12SN7 Tung Sol BGRP, 12SN7 Philips (very detailed tube and beautiful sounding), 12SN7 Tung Sol Mouse Ears, RCA 12SX7, and C3Gs.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I kept all of the expensive tubes and 6SN7s (Sorry GDuss) and gave him most if not all of the 12SN7s. Strangely enough this tube sounds a bit too warm on the Teton and Zach’s headphones. I think with the HD800 coming in it’ll be a perfect fit.
> 
> Some of the great tubes he has are the 12SN7 Tung Sol BGRP, 12SN7 Philips (very detailed tube and beautiful sounding), 12SN7 Tung Sol Mouse Ears, RCA 12SX7, and C3Gs.



Ah GDuss has enough very good drivers then. Those are all superb drivers. 

I can tell you have a preference for a detailed, clean sound. I don't blame you for that. I love the HD800 with GOTL and some of the brighter tubes as well as with Studio Six. In fact I agree with some of the Studio Six owners that the HD800 fits like a glove with that amp. 

Much as I love the HD800 (and I still do, otherwise I wouldn't have back out selling it), I also love the slightly warmer Verite Open. Once my ears are dialled in to Verite, I just enjoyed it more. Can't believe that a details and clarity loving person like me would love the Verite but I do. Not just love it. It's my primary headphone now. HD800 has become the test headphone and Sennheiser has terminated my sponsorship deal.


----------



## mordy

Do you agree that the Frankenstein tube I pictured above is the real thing? It is relabled GE and dated January 1952. 
When looking for it I was told to look for a tall tube with the getter flash halfway or further down, an almost flat top, and the bottom mica being oval (racetrack) shaped.
Paid less than the current toll of the GW Bridge (incl shipping). The tubes are used and measured around 75% of new.


----------



## UntilThen

Damm it's 5:25am. I have to wander into the office soon and then I have to drive in a zig zag fashion all the way to Sydney.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I think with the HD800 coming in it’ll be a perfect fit.



Just swapped to the HD800 with Studio Six and I'm glad I didn't sell the HD800. There's no headphone like the HD800 for details and clarity and soundstage. Not perfect but it has it's own character. It's a legend and Sennheiser did a splendid job in 2009. Now my goal is to own a Sennheiser HE-1. Love to see the tubes rising when powering up.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Keep an eye out for the Sylvania VT-94D metal base (aka 6J5).  Cheaper than the 6SN7W, same tone, larger stage and better separation.  My opinion and ears of course!


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 3, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Ah GDuss has enough very good drivers then. Those are all superb drivers.
> 
> I can tell you have a preference for a detailed, clean sound. I don't blame you for that. I love the HD800 with GOTL and some of the brighter tubes as well as with Studio Six. In fact I agree with some of the Studio Six owners that the HD800 fits like a glove with that amp.
> 
> Much as I love the HD800 (and I still do, otherwise I wouldn't have back out selling it), I also love the slightly warmer Verite Open. Once my ears are dialled in to Verite, I just enjoyed it more. Can't believe that a details and clarity loving person like me would love the Verite but I do. Not just love it. It's my primary headphone now. HD800 has become the test headphone and Sennheiser has terminated my sponsorship deal.



Right now the Verite is all i’m listening on the  Teton. Very clear and sound the checks off all of the boxes of what I want to hear. The only reason I’m purchased the HD800 is because of the supposed synergy with the amp. The Teton needs brighter tubes (for my tastes) to not sound flat with Zach’s headphones. It needs tubes that gives lots of air. If not, everything sounds flat without depth. 

From my understanding is that the HD800 has plenty of air, plenty bright, and needs a warmer amp to really bring out its full potential. Sounds like I can finally use my warmer tubes (Bendix 6080, Mullard ECC33) to full effect. I’m hoping it is what people say it is. *Crossing my fingers*. Plus I got a killer deal on an unopened HD800.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> From my understanding is that the HD800 has plenty of air, plenty bright, and needs a warmer amp to really bring out its full potential.



Spot on. I was told by friends that HE1000se is even better than the HD800.


----------



## UntilThen

And that friend is @UsoppNoKami who still owes me a report on GOTL with HE1000se


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I was told by friends that HE1000se is even better than the HD800.


Round and round it goes,when it stops,nobody knows.
When you guys finally stop messing around with all these headphones and get the Verite closed you will find audio nirvana,to a degree Ive never come close to hearing before.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Round and round it goes,when it stops,nobody knows.
> When you guys finally stop messing around with all these headphones and get the Verite closed you will find audio nirvana,to a degree Ive never come close to hearing before.



It’s all about synergy. Have heard even headphones to know that there is no one supreme headphone that is perfect for all ears because we are imperfect beings.


----------



## mordy

Was looking for a funny cartoon about headphones but mostly about earbuds and not hearing other people. Then I found this:





Please do not misinterpret this - I enjoy very much all the talk about headphones and I respect everybody's opinions; just thought that this one was funny.......


----------



## UntilThen

It's too funny because I can't see the picture.


----------



## UntilThen

I think this is funny !


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> It's too funny because I can't see the picture.


Can you see the caption?


----------



## UntilThen

No just says IMG


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> No just says IMG


Probably copyrighted and I took it off the internet. Anyhow, the picture shows a couple being welcomed to somebody's home. The husband of the couple is wearing headphones. His wife says to the hostess:
"Ed never attends a party without his opinion cancelling headphones."


----------



## mordy

Speaking about opinions, I have been running the Frankenstein 7N7 the entire afternoon. In the beginning they did not sound so spectacular. The treble was very good, but the bass sounded lacking. 
Well, after some three hours the tube woke up from it's 67 year sleep. Exquisite, airy treble and the bass filled out. Beautiful, light and airy presentation. The kind of wide sound stage that projects outside of the speakers.
Listening brings a smile.
PS: The cost of the toll on the George Washington Bridge NY is $15.


----------



## GDuss

Phantaminum said:


> Some of the great tubes he has are the 12SN7 Tung Sol BGRP, 12SN7 Philips (very detailed tube and beautiful sounding), 12SN7 Tung Sol Mouse Ears, RCA 12SX7, and C3Gs.



I'm not complaining.  Lots of great tubes in that box I got from you.  What's crazy about it is that I'm already looking at buying more.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> It’s all about synergy. Have heard even headphones to know that there is no one supreme headphone that is perfect for all ears because we are imperfect beings.


You guys need some push here.

Quoted from another planet "I don't know what to do with my other headphones now. Plus I have a ZMF verite cocobolo in production queue..."


----------



## Phantaminum

GDuss said:


> I'm not complaining.  Lots of great tubes in that box I got from you.  What's crazy about it is that I'm already looking at buying more.


----------



## mordy

Hi GDuss,
Need some help here. My NU 6SN7WGT induced involuntary toe tapping, but the Frankenstein 7N7 induces involuntary smiles and head nodding.
What research criteria should I apply to study these phenomena? 
Also need to start writing a grant proposal to the AVTMA.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Hi GDuss,
> Need some help here. My NU 6SN7WGT induced involuntary toe tapping, but the Frankenstein 7N7 induces involuntary smiles and head nodding.
> What research criteria should I apply to study these phenomena?
> Also need to start writing a grant proposal to the AVTMA.



Well first we need to do a blinded study, where someone else rolls in one of the tubes, and doesn't tell you which one, and we examine whether you toe tap or smile/nod.  Repeat 10 times.  If we see toe tapping every time with the 6SN7WGT and smiling/nodding every time with the 7N7, we're in good shape.  Then we would have some pilot data for the grant submission.


----------



## Monsterzero

GDuss said:


> What's crazy about it is that I'm already looking at buying more.


Welcome to the Glenn thread. Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## Monsterzero

Last weekend I asked if anyone had tried audiophile grade fuses in their systems,and didnt get any responses. I just realized my favorite audio tweaker,Mike Powell has a video from last year where he a/b two high end fuses. In the video he says he will let them burn in for the recommended twelve hours and report back,but in true OCD style,he never got back to us.

I can clearly hear a difference between the two listening at low volume thru my nearfield speakers. As to which sounds 'better' IDK.


----------



## mordy

Here I spent 4 min 38 sec and I could hear a difference (don't ask me to describe it), but apparently there is no tomorrow in the video. If the fuse requires break in of 12 hours, those preliminary music snippets are not useful.
I believe that hypnos1 has some experience with audiophile fuses. As far as I am concerned, I'll stay with the spares that Glenn included with the amp. 
Did anybody A/B the same amp on 120V vs 240V? Electric grids are different, you know.


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> Welcome to the Glenn thread. Sorry about your wallet.



Yes, my wallet is sad to be here.  The rest of me however, is not.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I love "audiophile fuses"!  Almost as startling as changing the Volume Knob on my Glenn.  The new, much larger, super heavy custom turned aircraft aluminum knob...REALLY opened up the sound stage and threw the 'visceral factor' through the roof!

But only after a 22.7 hour burn in...naturally.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Here I spent 4 min 38 sec and I could hear a difference (don't ask me to describe it), but apparently there is no tomorrow in the video. If the fuse requires break in of 12 hours, those preliminary music snippets are not useful.
> I believe that hypnos1 has some experience with audiophile fuses. As far as I am concerned, I'll stay with the spares that Glenn included with the amp.
> Did anybody A/B the same amp on 120V vs 240V? Electric grids are different, you know.



I run amps on 120 and 240 really don't here a difference don't know if 50Hz makes much difference I don't think so.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> And that friend is @UsoppNoKami who still owes me a report on GOTL with HE1000se



Haha.. my GOTL has been in customs the last 2 days, haven't had time to sneak away from work to go to the airport & clear it.  Should be done today , stay tuned lol....


----------



## 2359glenn (Oct 3, 2019)

UsoppNoKami said:


> Haha.. my GOTL has been in customs the last 2 days, haven't had time to sneak away from work to go to the airport & clear it.  Should be done today , stay tuned lol....



Guess you have to pay to get it.
Everyone is waiting for your opinion.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Forget tubes...this is the deal...

My "Visceral-rama" knob!!


----------



## UsoppNoKami

2359glenn said:


> Guess you have to pay to get it.



Yessir... My wallet is prepped


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Here I spent 4 min 38 sec and I could hear a difference (don't ask me to describe it), but apparently there is no tomorrow in the video. If the fuse requires break in of 12 hours, those preliminary music snippets are not useful.
> I believe that hypnos1 has some experience with audiophile fuses. As far as I am concerned, I'll stay with the spares that Glenn included with the amp.
> Did anybody A/B the same amp on 120V vs 240V? Electric grids are different, you know.


I messaged him on the video and asked for a followup. This is his replies:


OCD HI-Fi Guy
21 minutes ago
With fuses ? No I just took them all out and here they sit.




HeadKarma12 minutes ago
@OCD HI-Fi Guy because you didn't like the sound, or because they made no difference?




OCD HI-Fi Guy
8 minutes ago
@HeadKarma because I did not like what the SR fuses did. They absolutely work but for me it was worse than without.


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Forget tubes...this is the deal...
> 
> My "Visceral-rama" knob!!



I see a huge safe vault handle in your future to replace that “small” pot.


----------



## mordy (Oct 3, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> I see a huge safe vault handle in your future to replace that “small” pot.


I was thinking of those old style steering wheel knobs....


----------



## Monsterzero

Monsterzero said:


> I messaged him on the video and asked for a followup. This is his replies:
> 
> 
> OCD HI-Fi Guy
> ...


So Mikey delved further:



OCD HI-Fi Guy
34 minutes ago
@HeadKarma sorry. So the main thing I hear as the SR House Sound is similar with fuses, platforms and the little thimble waveguides is the image gets razor hyper focused in the middle of the soundstage. It's all discreet instrument placement and detailed, but it feels to me like its constrained. Like effort is being made to hold everything that tight in the center. On the converse. When you take it out, it's like everything moves apart and becomes more holographic with a much larger soundstage. The music seems unconstrained and wide open. Effortless. This is what I experienced in my rig and system.


----------



## GDuss

Noise report...  Also, I'm a terrible scientist.  I changed 2 variables for tonight's experiment.  Never change more than 1 variable at a time.  But ok, it's not a life or death experiment, so I changed 2.  I randomly moved the 6x 6BX7s around, but kept all 6 as power tubes.  Changed to the Tung Sol 12SN7 BGRP though as the driver.  Crackling and hissing from the last several nights is gone.  Very quiet actually.  Now, the stage is different with this combo.  Width is great, wider than the last few trials, but depth is pretty flat.  The prior combos had better depth, maybe not so much width, but quite a bit of noise, not so much with the NU 6SL7 but way more with the CBS Hytron 12SN7 (can't have everything right?).  The latter combo likely just doesn't work, I'll have to try that driver tube again with different power tubes.  But later.  Tonight enjoying noise-free music.  And a 2015 Chianti Classico.  That's not why the noise is gone if that's what you're thinking.  I can still hear the air conditioning through the Aeolus when the music is quiet.

Some good head nodding too @mordy


----------



## mordy (Oct 3, 2019)

The


GDuss said:


> Noise report...  Also, I'm a terrible scientist.  I changed 2 variables for tonight's experiment.  Never change more than 1 variable at a time.  But ok, it's not a life or death experiment, so I changed 2.  I randomly moved the 6x 6BX7s around, but kept all 6 as power tubes.  Changed to the Tung Sol 12SN7 BGRP though as the driver.  Crackling and hissing from the last several nights is gone.  Very quiet actually.  Now, the stage is different with this combo.  Width is great, wider than the last few trials, but depth is pretty flat.  The prior combos had better depth, maybe not so much width, but quite a bit of noise, not so much with the NU 6SL7 but way more with the CBS Hytron 12SN7 (can't have everything right?).  The latter combo likely just doesn't work, I'll have to try that driver tube again with different power tubes.  But later.  Tonight enjoying noise-free music.  And a 2015 Chianti Classico.  That's not why the noise is gone if that's what you're thinking.  I can still hear the air conditioning through the Aeolus when the music is quiet.
> 
> Some good head nodding too @mordy


Hi GDuss,
Glad that you found a noise free combination! I put little numbered stickers on my 6BX7 tubes so that I could put them back in in the same positions after I removed them - don't want to have to go through the nail biting of finding a quiet setup again.
After 9 hours of the TNT, I mean the 7N7, it started to sound too bright with poorly recorded YouTube recordings (otherwise good music). Or my brain is on a different track - don't know. But I had to change back to my favorite umbrella spoke driver, the NU 6SN7WGT.
Gone is the super expansive sound stage and refined and detailed treble, but general musicality and low end grunt is better with more overall energy, pace and rhythm, that translates into toe tapping rather head nodding.
Wonder if an EEG  would show different tracings for foot tapping vs head nodding?  It is all sub conscious - did not catch myself nodding before....
Well, I am nodding off - time to go to bed. Don't know where UT gets his energy to stay up all night and then go to work... There is a 16 hour time difference between New York and Sydney. Our daytime is night over there.


----------



## Phantaminum

GDuss said:


> Noise report...  Also, I'm a terrible scientist.  I changed 2 variables for tonight's experiment.  Never change more than 1 variable at a time.  But ok, it's not a life or death experiment, so I changed 2.  I randomly moved the 6x 6BX7s around, but kept all 6 as power tubes.  Changed to the Tung Sol 12SN7 BGRP though as the driver.  Crackling and hissing from the last several nights is gone.  Very quiet actually.  Now, the stage is different with this combo.  Width is great, wider than the last few trials, but depth is pretty flat.  The prior combos had better depth, maybe not so much width, but quite a bit of noise, not so much with the NU 6SL7 but way more with the CBS Hytron 12SN7 (can't have everything right?).  The latter combo likely just doesn't work, I'll have to try that driver tube again with different power tubes.  But later.  Tonight enjoying noise-free music.  And a 2015 Chianti Classico.  That's not why the noise is gone if that's what you're thinking.  I can still hear the air conditioning through the Aeolus when the music is quiet.
> 
> Some good head nodding too @mordy



Great news indeed. Now one thing about that TS BGRP - it hasn’t been burned in. After 40 hours that tube will open up and will really surprise you. The stage becomes deeper, instruments are placed holographically around your head and the top end becomes sweeter. That’s one of favorite tubes.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> But I had to change back to my favorite umbrella spoke driver, the NU 6SN7WGT



I don't think I have ever seen an NU "W".  Is this the gray-glass version?


----------



## Monsterzero

GDuss said:


> Noise report...  Also, I'm a terrible scientist.  I changed 2 variables for tonight's experiment.  Never change more than 1 variable at a time.  But ok, it's not a life or death experiment, so I changed 2.  I randomly moved the 6x 6BX7s around, but kept all 6 as power tubes.  Changed to the Tung Sol 12SN7 BGRP though as the driver.  Crackling and hissing from the last several nights is gone.  Very quiet actually.  Now, the stage is different with this combo.  Width is great, wider than the last few trials, but depth is pretty flat.  The prior combos had better depth, maybe not so much width, but quite a bit of noise, not so much with the NU 6SL7 but way more with the CBS Hytron 12SN7 (can't have everything right?).  The latter combo likely just doesn't work, I'll have to try that driver tube again with different power tubes.  But later.  Tonight enjoying noise-free music.  And a 2015 Chianti Classico.  That's not why the noise is gone if that's what you're thinking.  I can still hear the air conditioning through the Aeolus when the music is quiet.
> 
> Some good head nodding too @mordy


 When you have time give the offending drivers a good pin cleaning. Fine sandpaper and alcohol. Some of us use Deoxit on serious jobs,but the residue can be a hassle to remove. Deoxit is also good for cleaning RCAs plugs and headphone plugs too. Just make sure to not re-insert until completely dry.

Cleaning the pins may,or may not help the noise,but its what I do and usually it works.


----------



## Monsterzero (Oct 3, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Great news indeed. Now one thing about that TS BGRP - it hasn’t been burned in. After 40 hours that tube will open up and will really surprise you. The stage becomes deeper, instruments are placed holographically around your head and the top end becomes sweeter. That’s one of favorite tubes.


 the depth on both the 6v and 12v versions of the TS BGRP on the Verite open is by far,the deepest of any other driver I own.
The Verite closed doesnt seem to like it. Weird.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I don't think I have ever seen an NU "W".  Is this the gray-glass version?


Sorry, typo - should be 6S*L*7WGT:


----------



## lukeap69

@GDuss 
This may not be one of the causes of your noise issue, please check if there are radio transmitting device near your GOTL such as a mobile phone. Also, your GOTL may need a new name to be totally quiet!


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> I put little numbered stickers on my 6BX7 tubes so that I could put them back in in the same positions after I removed them - don't want to have to go through the nail biting of finding a quiet setup again.



I’m absolutely going to do this now.


----------



## GDuss

Phantaminum said:


> Great news indeed. Now one thing about that TS BGRP - it hasn’t been burned in. After 40 hours that tube will open up and will really surprise you. The stage becomes deeper, instruments are placed holographically around your head and the top end becomes sweeter. That’s one of favorite tubes.



Well I’m looking forward to my future with this tube. I like the way this sounds.


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> When you have time give the offending drivers a good pin cleaning. Fine sandpaper and alcohol. Some of us use Deoxit on serious jobs,but the residue can be a hassle to remove. Deoxit is also good for cleaning RCAs plugs and headphone plugs too. Just make sure to not re-insert until completely dry.
> 
> Cleaning the pins may,or may not help the noise,but its what I do and usually it works.



I’ll be on this over the weekend. Good plan.


----------



## GDuss

lukeap69 said:


> @GDuss
> This may not be one of the causes of your noise issue, please check if there are radio transmitting device near your GOTL such as a mobile phone. Also, your GOTL may need a new name to be totally quiet!



I tried putting the phone in airplane mode. And turning off WiFi and Bluetooth on the computer. Didn’t seem to matter. 

How does one go about naming their GOTL?  I’ve seen several people with names, but I need a translation of their meaning.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Did anybody A/B the same amp on 120V vs 240V?



240V is twice as good that’s logical. Glenn says he tested my amp on 240v in his house.


----------



## UntilThen

Tung Sol black glass round plates in any variations are tube fiefdom gift to mankind. The sage of old reckons it’s the best 6sn7.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Haha.. my GOTL has been in customs the last 2 days, haven't had time to sneak away from work to go to the airport & clear it.  Should be done today , stay tuned lol....



Ken Jie, get your priorities right. When GOTL lands, you drop everything to get it. I am still waiting for that report. By the time I reach Sydney in 3 hours time, I want to see one post from you.


----------



## lukeap69

GDuss said:


> I tried putting the phone in airplane mode. And turning off WiFi and Bluetooth on the computer. Didn’t seem to matter.
> 
> How does one go about naming their GOTL?  I’ve seen several people with names, but I need a translation of their meaning.


Okay, at least that is ruled out.
Re. name. you can start from mythology, biblical or anything that you fancy that is also catchy.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> How does one go about naming their GOTL? I’ve seen several people with names, but I need a translation of their meaning.



You can call it anything but UntilThen or Ulysses.


----------



## Monsterzero

lukeap69 said:


> Okay, at least that is ruled out.
> Re. name. you can start from mythology, biblical or anything that you fancy that is also catchy.


 Yes,something like Helga The Mighty,from Helga's House of Pain in Amsterdam.


----------



## UntilThen

Gosh if I keep posting at McDonalds I will never get to Sydney.


----------



## lukeap69

Monsterzero said:


> Yes,something like Helga The Mighty,from Helga's House of Pain in Amsterdam.


That is a fine name for a GOTL! Great job MZ.


----------



## GDuss

lukeap69 said:


> Okay, at least that is ruled out.
> Re. name. you can start from mythology, biblical or anything that you fancy that is also catchy.



ok, this will need some thought. Can’t rush it. Plus, Phantaminum should have input. He had it built.


----------



## Monsterzero

lukeap69 said:


> That is a fine name for a GOTL! Great job MZ.


Yes,its catchy. More so than Olaf the Virtuous.


----------



## gibosi

GDuss said:


> ok, this will need some thought. Can’t rush it. Plus, Phantaminum should have input. He had it built.



In the end you can name it anything you want. Personally, it seems strange to me to give my amp a name, but I think if I wanted to, I would give it a Japanese name, maybe....  気高い = sublime (pronounced something like KayDakai).


----------



## lukeap69

gibosi said:


> In the end you can name it anything you want. Personally, it seems strange to me to give my amp a name, but I think if I wanted to, I would give it a Japanese name, maybe....  気高い = sublime (pronounced something like KayDakai).


That is lovely Ken. KaiDakai!


----------



## UntilThen

Are we still on names?


----------



## UntilThen

Let me share a picture.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> 240V is twice as good that’s logical. Glenn says he tested my amp on 240v in his house.



Yes I did and burned it in too on 240. Had it plugged it into a air conditioner outlet that is 240 volt.
The difference is 60Hz and 240 volts in the homes in the US is balanced power no neutral 2 hot legs 180 deg out of phase.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Good things come to those who wait 

Many thanks once again to @2359glenn for his kindness, guidance and friendship throughout the whole process right from the very start before I confirmed anything with him. 

Here are some quick snaps I took -

 

 

 

 

First fire up test:

Brimar 13D1, Tung Sol 3DG4, 4x TS 6BX7 & 2 RCA 6BX7

 

Massdrop sacrificial headphones survived my previously untested (by me) tubes...

 

No noise, tubes are good, so on to the first baseline - my modded HD6XX/650 

 

This headphone has never sounded better, 300ohm Senn and GOTL were made for each other. I'm gonna take my dog for a walk now, later the HD800S will go in before I try LCD-3, HE1000SE and finally Verite. Going to be glued to my rig this whole weekend, TGIF!


----------



## OctavianH

Nice one, those sockets look different than on other builds.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Last weekend I asked if anyone had tried audiophile grade fuses in their systems,and didnt get any responses. I just realized my favorite audio tweaker,Mike Powell has a video from last year where he a/b two high end fuses. In the video he says he will let them burn in for the recommended twelve hours and report back,but in true OCD style,he never got back to us.
> 
> I can clearly hear a difference between the two listening at low volume thru my nearfield speakers. As to which sounds 'better' IDK.





The Holo Spring Level 3 comes with one....I have no idea if it makes any difference...I am a bit skeptical if it really matters.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> This headphone has never sounded better, 300ohm Senn and GOTL were made for each other. I'm gonna take my dog for a walk now, later the HD800S will go in before I try LCD-3, HE1000SE and finally Verite. Going to be glued to my rig this whole weekend, TGIF!



I am so happy for you Ken Jie.  I knew you'll have a good outcome. Incidentally I gave away my modded HD650 2 weeks ago. It's Labour Day on Monday in Australia so it's a long weekend. Your GOTL seems to have new brown sockets. Looks good ! That tube rectifier socket is very nice. If I had to get GOTL again, it would be with tube rectification. Just so because I want to use my rectifiers.

Well enjoy and look forward to further impressions from you. Now I have every reason to visit you in KL next year.


----------



## whirlwind

UsoppNoKami said:


> Good things come to those who wait
> 
> Many thanks once again to @2359glenn for his kindness, guidance and friendship throughout the whole process right from the very start before I confirmed anything with him.
> 
> ...




Looks great, congrats!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Yes I did and burned it in too on 240. Had it plugged it into a air conditioner outlet that is 240 volt.
> The difference is 60Hz and 240 volts in the homes in the US is balanced power no neutral 2 hot legs 180 deg out of phase.



Australia follow British - 230v. Singapore and Malaysia too.


----------



## UntilThen

@UsoppNoKami  you ordered the right GOTL. Just looking at the pictures, I know you've:-

Preamp out.
Lundahl transformer - good move here because it'll be quieter.
5998 boost switch.
Just looking at the volume knob, I think it's the Gold Point attenuator presumably with 47 steps.


and sitting on top of the rack, that's where it should be.


----------



## UntilThen

59 guests viewing. They must love your GOTL, Mr Ken Jie !!!


----------



## UntilThen

@2359glenn  it's time we start that factory now. Time to quit the full time job.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> @2359glenn  it's time we start that factory now. Time to quit the full time job.



Yeah, I can see the queue reaching years and not months....literally


----------



## rnros

UsoppNoKami said:


> Good things come to those who wait
> 
> Many thanks once again to @2359glenn for his kindness, guidance and friendship throughout the whole process right from the very start before I confirmed anything with him.
> 
> ...



Congrats! That is a BEAUTIFUL amp. 
And I know it sounds good... Enjoy.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, I can see the queue reaching years and not months....literally



I'll shorten the queue because I'll be soldering it haha.


----------



## UntilThen

Btw Ken Jie, what in the world is Usoppnokami ?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Australia follow British - 230v. Singapore and Malaysia too.



It works fine on 230 0r 240 the transformer is actually 230


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> Btw Ken Jie, what in the world is Usoppnokami ?



'God' Usopp, pirate & teller of the tallest tales in all the four seas


----------



## GDuss

UsoppNoKami said:


> This headphone has never sounded better, 300ohm Senn and GOTL were made for each other.



That was my first reaction exactly.  Congrats on the new amp, and enjoy your weekend!!!


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Thanks everyone who commented on the GOTL's arrival. Obviously I'm thrilled, and I have not even started tube rolling yet. 

HD800S is so sweet out of this amp, no sibilance at all even on J-pop.  Looking up One Piece above for Matt caused Roon Radio to play it, I swear haha


----------



## Phantaminum

GDuss said:


> ok, this will need some thought. Can’t rush it. Plus, Phantaminum should have input. He had it built.



I originally had called in the Cesar. Othello sounds like a good amp name.


----------



## Phantaminum

UsoppNoKami said:


> Thanks everyone who commented on the GOTL's arrival. Obviously I'm thrilled, and I have not even started tube rolling yet.
> 
> HD800S is so sweet out of this amp, no sibilance at all even on J-pop.  Looking up One Piece above for Matt caused Roon Radio to play it, I swear haha



Congrats man! Are you going to name it the Thousand Sunny?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Phantaminum said:


> Congrats man! Are you going to name it the Thousand Sunny?



ahahaha.... Thousand Sunny, Going Merry.. let's see if a new ship is in order after Wano XD


----------



## Phantaminum

Can anyone tell what type of rectifier this is? Looks like a Brimar but i’m unsure.


----------



## GDuss

Phantaminum said:


> I originally had called in the Cesar. Othello sounds like a good amp name.



Othello the OTL?  How is that not already taken?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> And that friend is @UsoppNoKami who still owes me a report on GOTL with HE1000se



Still on the very first tube roll that I started with today. 

HEKSE & Verite are very different in their presentation but I love them both. And they both sound great out of this starting complement of tubes.  Looking forward to rolling tubes over the weekend, I have an idea which way to go with both now that I have a baseline with the amp. 

Happy days


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> I see a huge safe vault handle in your future to replace that “small” pot.



Love it!  Now I know where to go on another knob upgrade!


----------



## JazzVinyl

UsoppNoKami said:


> Still on the very first tube roll that I started with today.
> 
> HEKSE & Verite are very different in their presentation but I love them both. And they both sound great out of this starting complement of tubes.  Looking forward to rolling tubes over the weekend, I have an idea which way to go with both now that I have a baseline with the amp.
> 
> Happy days



Congrats on Amp arrival!

You need an upgraded KNOB!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UsoppNoKami said:


> Still on the very first tube roll that I started with today.
> 
> HEKSE & Verite are very different in their presentation but I love them both. And they both sound great out of this starting complement of tubes.  Looking forward to rolling tubes over the weekend, I have an idea which way to go with both now that I have a baseline with the amp.
> 
> Happy days



Looks awesome, congrats.  Probably took me two months to get a feel for all the tubes I had amassed, but loved every second of it, good times ahead!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> The
> 
> Hi GDuss
> Glad that you found a noise free combination! I put little numbered stickers on my 6BX7 tubes so that I could put them back in in the same positions after I removed them - don't want to have to go through the nail biting of finding a quiet setup again.
> ...



Hello Mordy...

Your "great treble but thin bass" is all I get from 7N7 in the GOTL as well.  I even tried that supposed special one (Frankie) but the same. "lacking in bass grunt", so I stay away from the 7N7's in this amp.

@GDuss - the NU 6SL7 has an amplification factor of 70, which is very high, I find high amplification factor drivers like very low amplification powers.  Try a pair of 6H13C with your NU 6SL7 and it may be happier.  

The 6BL7's have amplification factor of 10,
The 6H13C (6AS7G or 6080) have an amplification factor of 2.


Cheers...


----------



## JazzVinyl

lukeap69 said:


> @GDuss
> This may not be one of the causes of your noise issue, please check if there are radio transmitting device near your GOTL such as a mobile phone. Also, your GOTL may need a new name to be totally quiet!



And KNOB!


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> And KNOB!



Names first, KNOBs later.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I think if I had a new 9 socket GOTL built...I would skip C3g and have EL32 sockets in their place...


----------



## Monsterzero

UsoppNoKami said:


> Good things come to those who wait
> 
> Many thanks once again to @2359glenn for his kindness, guidance and friendship throughout the whole process right from the very start before I confirmed anything with him.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the lovely amp! Looks to me like your build is quite similar to mine. Good stuff. Enjoy.


----------



## mordy (Oct 4, 2019)

UsoppNoKami said:


> Still on the very first tube roll that I started with today.
> 
> HEKSE & Verite are very different in their presentation but I love them both. And they both sound great out of this starting complement of tubes.  Looking forward to rolling tubes over the weekend, I have an idea which way to go with both now that I have a baseline with the amp.
> 
> Happy days


Hi UNK,
Congrats on your new amp.
My first impressions were totally different because I had the bad luck of using socket savers that weren't good and had trouble finding 6 power tubes that weren't noisy. It felt like I was wrestling with a beast....
I switched to something simple like one driver and a pair of 6336 and things improved a lot, but it took time to sort out the thing with the socket savers. After a while I got everything under control, and now I am thrilled with the GOTL.
I am deriving tremendous musical pleasure from it every day. I have found a great platform for power tubes (4x6080) with the addition of a pair of drivers in the C3g sockets, and I basically just roll the front driver.
I have a bunch of old tubes from the days when you could buy inexpensive assorted lots on eBay, and I check out different tubes without any prejudices as to how they should sound. Also acquired some of the standouts that people like such as the Syl and TS.
Most everything sounds good in the GOTL; some tubes are special, and a few spectacular sounding with the combination I am using. It has now come to the point where I am reluctant to try something else - I am so happy with what I have......
Enjoy!


----------



## JazzVinyl

UsoppNoKami said:


> Still on the very first tube roll that I started with today.
> 
> HEKSE & Verite are very different in their presentation but I love them both. And they both sound great out of this starting complement of tubes.  Looking forward to rolling tubes over the weekend, I have an idea which way to go with both now that I have a baseline with the amp.
> 
> Happy days



Looks like you have many a fine pair of headphones!  Makes it even more fun


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 4, 2019)

mordy said:


> I have found a great platform for power tubes (4x6080) with the addition of a pair of drivers in the C3g sockets, and I basically just roll the front driver.



Hello Mordy...

Your pair of drivers' adapted to the C3g sockets are EL8's?  And they are "1/2 power" EL3N's...right?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Just past 2am here. After a couple of glasses of Lagavulin, couldn't resist rolling in some tubes. A fine way to end the night - listening to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon through the Verite, with ECC32, TS 5998 and WE 422A on Glenn's custom adaptor in the amp. 

 

Truly a tube roller's dream toy


----------



## Zachik

UsoppNoKami said:


> Truly a tube roller's dream toy


Or tube roller's financial demise


----------



## leftside

UsoppNoKami said:


> Just past 2am here. After a couple of glasses of Lagavulin, couldn't resist rolling in some tubes. A fine way to end the night - listening to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon through the Verite, with ECC32, TS 5998 and WE 422A on Glenn's custom adaptor in the amp.
> 
> 
> 
> Truly a tube roller's dream toy


You could probably stop right there and be done. But that would be boring


----------



## Monsterzero

UsoppNoKami said:


> Just past 2am here. After a couple of glasses of Lagavulin, couldn't resist rolling in some tubes. A fine way to end the night - listening to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon through the Verite, with ECC32, TS 5998 and WE 422A on Glenn's custom adaptor in the amp.
> 
> 
> 
> Truly a tube roller's dream toy


 5998s and 422a together? That must sound very wide and revealing. My audio budget keeps getting sidetracked but eventually I will get a 422a.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> 'God' Usopp, pirate & teller of the tallest tales in all the four seas



Omg, you're as young as my son or as old.... however way you want to look at it.  There's a collection of framed puzzle pictures, figurines, DVDs, etc in my house left behind by Sogeking.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Mordy...
> 
> Your pair of drivers' adapted to the C3g sockets are EL8's?  And they are "1/2 power" EL3N's...right?


Hi JV,
I did use the EL8 extensively. It draws 0.5A and is supposed to be a half power EL3. On a lark I plugged in a pair of Telefunken tubular EL11 tubes that I had lying around. These draw 0.9A and are supposed to be identical with the Philips EL3N except for the base. The sound I got is spectacular - the best I have heard yet from the GOTL.




The Philips EL3N and the TFK EL 11 ST and Tubular are supposed to have identical construction. I am so happy with the sound that I find it difficult to change, but ultimately I will try the EL3N and several other EL 11 variants.
As I remember it, the EL11 T did not sound special when I first tried it, but in conjunction with a third driver, something very special happens.
I gave the EL32 a try, but with 6x6BX7 I got very bad static so I stopped using it. Could have been the Chinese adapters or something else like too much gain - not sure, but not worth a blown driver to find out. May try it again with different tubes and Deyan adapters one day. (I know you have good luck with the EL32 and low gain tubes.)


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> You could probably stop right there and be done. But that would be boring



Exactly. That combination is < insert your description here > .  I knew Ken Jie has all the choice tubes and good headphones. He also possessed a nice camera or rather his photo taking skills is as good as the GOTL. Just the man I need to see impressions of this wonderful .... what you calling it Ken Jie?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> Omg, you're as young as my son or as old.... however way you want to look at it.  There's a collection of framed puzzle pictures, figurines, DVDs, etc in my house left behind by Sogeking.



Young at heart mate


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Thanks everyone who commented on the GOTL's arrival. Obviously I'm thrilled, and I have not even started tube rolling yet.
> 
> HD800S is so sweet out of this amp, no sibilance at all even on J-pop. Looking up One Piece above for Matt caused Roon Radio to play it, I swear haha



I had no idea you're One Piece fan. Took the family to Japan 10 years ago and all my son wanted to buy were One Piece stuff !

I'm as thrilled as you are with your GOTL. The excitement is just in-cre-di-ble. I know there are a lot more exotic tubes in your collection. Careful don't wear out those sockets.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> 5998s and 422a together? That must sound very wide and revealing. My audio budget keeps getting sidetracked but eventually I will get a 422a.



422a is super expensive now. I'm looking for a good one and that will be the last of my rectifier collection. Oh no.... there's still that Mullard GZ34 metal base. Ok sell it all and go back to Mr Fred.


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> 422a is super expensive now. I'm looking for a good one and that will be the last of my rectifier collection. Oh no.... there's still that Mullard GZ34 metal base. Ok sell it all and go back to Mr Fred.



I really really like the Mullard Metal Bass GZ34. For the price I paid for it they better bury me with it.

I’ve also been looking at 422As but by god they’re expensive. Any one want to trade a somewhat used kidney for a 422a?

Hickok 539c reading kidney as “Replace”


----------



## GDuss

UsoppNoKami said:


> After a couple of glasses of Lagavulin



I know everyone is already commenting on the amp, tubes, headphones, music, posters...  Just wanted to make sure this didn't get missed.  Solid choice for your first evening with GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

Back home in Sydney now but without my toys ! All I have here is the iMac 27" with Bose Companion 5 speakers. Then I realised my wife has somehow gotten into this hobby. She has a Sennheiser EarPod ! Put it on and it's super clear. Could this be the start of my love affair with little IEMs ? and a nice portable Astell&Kern ?


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> I know everyone is already commenting on the amp, tubes, headphones, music, posters...  Just wanted to make sure this didn't get missed.  Solid choice for your first evening with GOTL.



You have a sharp eye Guss. I notice the Lagavulin, One Piece, HEKSE, Verite, Monkey.D.Luffy, 422a, ECC32 and 5998 and the special rack.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Back home in Sydney now but without my toys ! All I have here is the iMac 27" with Bose Companion 5 speakers. Then I realised my wife has somehow gotten into this hobby. She has a Sennheiser EarPod ! Put it on and it's super clear. Could this be the start of my love affair with little IEMs ? and a nice portable Astell&Kern ?


What happened to your Monk earbuds from Venture Electronics? (Can't believe it - the price doubled on Amazon - now $10)


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> You have a sharp eye Guss. I notice the Lagavulin, One Piece, HEKSE, Verite, Monkey.D.Luffy, 422a, ECC32 and 5998 and the special rack.



Sorry, I forgot, you did notice the rack.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> What happened to your Monk earbuds from Venture Electronics? (Can't believe it - the price doubled on Amazon - now $10)



Hmmm where is my monk earbud? Ah I remember now. Someone... forgot the name now.... offered me his Bendix 6080 slotted graphite plates because I had only one. For his kindness, I gave him my pair of naked c3g(s) and the monk earbud !


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Sorry, I forgot, you did notice the rack.



The only rack I will know this weekend is this rack of lamb ...


----------



## UntilThen

I was wondering where is the bass on this little ear piece but then I realise I didn't push it in enough. Did that and viola this little midget has BASS !!! and lots of it. It's a Sennheiser Momentum In Ear that my wife has.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow IEMs are super good. Got to get Zach into IEMs. It's so precise and that bass ! and this is just from a Sennheiser Momentum !


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> I really really like the Mullard Metal Bass GZ34. For the price I paid for it they better bury me with it.
> 
> I’ve also been looking at 422As but by god they’re expensive. Any one want to trade a somewhat used kidney for a 422a?
> 
> Hickok 539c reading kidney as “Replace”



Everyone here is an active rabbit. So very active and happy bunnies. This hobby is consuming us consumers. I didn't know I would get in so deep and this is only the start. You will have to fight for the 422a with me.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Wow IEMs are super good. Got to get Zach into IEMs. It's so precise and that bass ! and this is just from a Sennheiser Momentum !



Rabbit hole warning.  Watch yourself.  You just said we're all rabbits, but you don't have to explore every hole.


----------



## pippen99

UntilThen said:


> Wow IEMs are super good. Got to get Zach into IEMs. It's so precise and that bass ! and this is just from a Sennheiser Momentum !


I have a pair of Momentums I use to walk on treadmill or mow the lawn.  Surprisingly good sound for not much money.


----------



## leftside

GDuss said:


> Rabbit hole warning.  Watch yourself.  You just said we're all rabbits, but you don't have to explore every hole.


If UT likes the Momentum, then the next step should be those Shure SE846 that you have. And then....


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Rabbit hole warning.  Watch yourself.  You just said we're all rabbits, but you don't have to explore every hole.



Rabbits do not discriminate between holes. They will go down every hole.


----------



## UntilThen

pippen99 said:


> I have a pair of Momentums I use to walk on treadmill or mow the lawn.  Surprisingly good sound for not much money.



I have to mow the lawn this weekend after being away for 5 weeks ! and I'll wear the Momentum and drive it with a spare Fiio X5.



leftside said:


> If UT likes the Momentum, then the next step should be those Shure SE846 that you have. And then....




Mr Leftside what have you done to me. The Shure SE846 is Nasa quality and price !


----------



## GDuss

leftside said:


> If UT likes the Momentum, then the next step should be those Shure SE846 that you have. And then....



We know how this movie ends.



UntilThen said:


> Rabbits do not discriminate between holes. They will go down every hole.



Spoken like a man who will soon be headed to the audiologist to have ear impressions done for his custom IEMs


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Spoken like a man who will soon be headed to the audiologist to have ear impressions done for his custom IEMs



My son had a custom IEM and I know it ain't cheap but I ask no questions about price. Only that he loves it very much. 

This Sennheiser Momentum is a revelation ! I wonder how it will sound plug into the GOTL or Studio Six?


----------



## UntilThen

Guss do me a favour. Plug your Shure into GOTL and tell me how it sound?


----------



## UntilThen

I'm looking at this hole now and there's something gleaming there.


----------



## UntilThen

Dang Guss, just google all your IEMs. You have good taste. Why did you come to full size headphones rabbit hole?


----------



## UntilThen

$1199 !!! I'll give the invoice to my agent. I think I will go audition the Shure SE846 this weekend. Very interesting comments...

_The SE846 is Shure’s flagship earphone for audiophiles and musicians alike, with a rich, musical sound and comfortable fit. The Shure SE846 is a noise isolating in-ear monitor equipped with 4 high definition balanced armature drivers. The compact earpieces are moulded to fit snugly and discreetly into most ears.

The Shure 846’s sound signature can be described as intimate and warm, pulling the listener into the music with rich bass and musical vocals. The SE846’s balanced filter results in a flatter, more balanced sound, while the bass filter increases low frequencies - perfect for kicking back and relaxing. The treble filter results in a brighter, more exciting presentation. All three filters still present an imtimate, rich soundstage.

For a more balanced sound with a clearer soundstage, consider the Campfire Audio Andromeda._



Wait...  there's Andromeda by ALO, maker of my Studio Six? I think this is a dangerous rabbit hole.


----------



## whirlwind

UsoppNoKami said:


> Just past 2am here. After a couple of glasses of Lagavulin, couldn't resist rolling in some tubes. A fine way to end the night - listening to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon through the Verite, with ECC32, TS 5998 and WE 422A on Glenn's custom adaptor in the amp.
> 
> 
> 
> Truly a tube roller's dream toy




You will have a lot of fun rolling tubes...but you really need to go no where else ...this should be one helluva sound!


----------



## UntilThen

What the fish !!! Why did I pick up this Sennheiser Momentum for ??? This is getting into megabucks territory.

*SENNHEISER IE 800 S
64 AUDIO U12T 12 DRIVER TIA*


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> You will have a lot of fun rolling tubes...but you really need to go no where else ...this should be one helluva sound!



Usopp has fallen asleep at his desk with Verite still on his head at 4:37am. Too much Lagavulin.


----------



## GDuss (Oct 4, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Wait... there's Andromeda by ALO, maker of my Studio Six? I think this is a dangerous rabbit hole.



Yep, you're in danger territory.

I like IEMs, and have used them for many years.  Not everyone likes them.  They can be uncomfortable, certainly, but the ones I have don't bother me.  You may not find the sound to be on the same level as full-size headphones (which some would then say headphones can't match a good 2-channel system etc).  Some of them will surprise you quite a bit.  Those FIBAE ME have bass that none of my headphones can touch (well-controlled bass that doesn't overwhelm the clarity of the mids and treble, remarkable really).  SE846 straight out of Hugo2 would probably surprise you too.  IEMs have their place.  I use them in my office, where I don't have a headphone rig, and it doesn't make sense to set one up.  Or when traveling.  Do any of them sound like tubes in the GOTL, with Aeolus?  No, they don't.  The GOTL and Aeolus just have a large robust sound that my IEMs don't match, and they are better at recreating the sense of real musicians in your room.  Some people say the iSine20 is better than (or at least competes with) the LCD2C.  I disagree, the LCD2C still sounds like a big driver.  The iSine20 is well beyond most IEMs, but not a huge LCD driver.  In any case, you'd be impressed with what IEMs can accomplish.  I doubt they would displace much listening time from your GOTL/Studio Six and Verite when you are at home.  But they can easily make you not so sad to be away from your full-size rig when you are gone.


----------



## Wes S

GDuss said:


> Yep, you're in danger territory.
> 
> I like IEMs, and have used them for many years.  Not everyone likes them.  They can be uncomfortable, certainly, but the ones I have don't bother me.  You may not find the sound to be on the same level as full-size headphones (which some would then say headphones can't match a good 2-channel system etc).  Some of them will surprise you quite a bit.  Those FIBAE ME have bass that none of my headphones can touch (well-controlled bass that doesn't overwhelm the clarity of the mids and treble, remarkable really).  SE846 straight out of Hugo2 would probably surprise you too.  IEMs have their place.  I use them in my office, where I don't have a headphone rig, and it doesn't make sense to set one up.  Or when traveling.  Do any of them sound like tubes in the GOTL, with Aeolus?  No, they don't.  The GOTL and Aeolus just has a large robust sound that my IEMs don't match, and they are better at recreating the sense of real musicians in your room.  Some people say the iSine20 is better than (or at least competes with) the LCD2C.  I disagree, the LCD2C still sounds like a big driver.  The iSine20 is well beyond most IEMs, but not a huge LCD driver.  In any case, you'd be impressed with what IEMs can accomplish.  I doubt they would displace much listening time from your GOTL/Studio Six and Verite when you are at home.  But they can easily make you not so sad to be away from your full-size rig when you are gone.


Nice iems you got there fellow Texan!   Seems like we have similar taste.


----------



## UntilThen

Guss thanks for the write up. I knew you’ll produce a thesis on GOTL someday.

I need an IEM for the office that’s for sure and when I travel. So now to get one and charge it to my accounts manager.


----------



## GDuss

Wes S said:


> Nice iems you got there fellow Texan!   Seems like we have similar taste.



Remarkably similar actually.  Happy Friday in Texas.  A few more days of hot weather and then hopefully we're done with it.  And we can heat ourselves with tube glow.


----------



## leftside

GDuss said:


> Yep, you're in danger territory.
> 
> I like IEMs, and have used them for many years.  Not everyone likes them.  They can be uncomfortable, certainly, but the ones I have don't bother me.  You may not find the sound to be on the same level as full-size headphones (which some would then say headphones can't match a good 2-channel system etc).  Some of them will surprise you quite a bit.  Those FIBAE ME have bass that none of my headphones can touch (well-controlled bass that doesn't overwhelm the clarity of the mids and treble, remarkable really).  SE846 straight out of Hugo2 would probably surprise you too.  IEMs have their place.  I use them in my office, where I don't have a headphone rig, and it doesn't make sense to set one up.  Or when traveling.  Do any of them sound like tubes in the GOTL, with Aeolus?  No, they don't.  The GOTL and Aeolus just have a large robust sound that my IEMs don't match, and they are better at recreating the sense of real musicians in your room.  Some people say the iSine20 is better than (or at least competes with) the LCD2C.  I disagree, the LCD2C still sounds like a big driver.  The iSine20 is well beyond most IEMs, but not a huge LCD driver.  In any case, you'd be impressed with what IEMs can accomplish.  I doubt they would displace much listening time from your GOTL/Studio Six and Verite when you are at home.  But they can easily make you not so sad to be away from your full-size rig when you are gone.


Agreed. After many IEMs, I've settled on the Campfire Solaris. Tried the Vega - too much bass. Tried the Andromeda - not enough bass. Solaris - just perfect. But, these can be a pain to fit and take me a minute or so to adjust properly - and I've also tried many tips with these. They are also rather large and bulky - and I certainly wouldn't use them for running. Smaller bluetooth IEMs are better for that. Ok for the gym if not doing cardio - but then it's too tempting to simply lay down on an exercise mat and listen to music


----------



## UntilThen

Ha for the gym. Now I need an IEM for sure. And cycling !!!


----------



## GDuss

Just so I post something Glenn amp related today, it has been a great 4 evenings with the GOTL so far (thanks again @Phantaminum ).  Everyone here is right about what they say about it.  I'm looking forward to getting to know it more.  A matching Tung Sol 5998 shows up on Monday (matching the one I have already), which will be fun to try.  Also looking forward to trying all the suggestions people have generously provided this week (I am making a word document to keep track of them all).  And I am somehow fascinated with the GOTL power button, and the blue glow.  I probably shouldn't admit that.

But it's time to take the next 2 nights off, to go hear real live music.  Eric Krasno Trio tonight and Snarky Puppy tomorrow night.  Will see how the GOTL/Aeolus compares to actual humans, with actual instruments, on an actual stage.  I bet it's pretty close .


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Ha for the gym. Now I need an IEM for sure. And cycling !!!


I'm not so sure about wearing IEMs whilst cycling. You can never be too sure who might be following you:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...hases-mount-seymour-mountain-bikers-1.5306344

I actually ride Mount Seymour a lot, and have seen quite a few bears up there - but I've never been chased by one!


----------



## UntilThen

Wow that is scary. I was only chased by magpies. I think the bears wants the IEMs.


----------



## Monsterzero

My munchkin ears and IEMs dont get along. My wallet,and wife,rejoice.


----------



## UntilThen

When I started in 2015, I couldn’t get use to headphones. Now they fit like gloves. My first amp purchased was the JDS Lab O2 / ODAC and my first full size headphone is the Beyer DT 880 250ohms.

Today with Verite and GOTL, Studio Six. It’s a BIG jump.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have a number of portable rigs and IEM's that while not as comfortable for long term listening, sure as heck sound like a million bucks.  You can't beat having superb reproduction outside, or anywhere you want.  

My favorite IEM's do not need an amp, sound absolutely fantastic, are made by Alpha Delta,  model AD01,   Have tried many, these are my favorites, by far.

@GDuss - enjoy your live music shows!  Great stuff!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Another great sounding 12J5...Tung Sol VT-135

Get the NU 12J5 if you can find them.  This Tung Sol is also good sounding in the GOTL.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 4, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Another great sounding 12J5...Tung Sol VT-135
> 
> Get the NU 12J5 if you can find them.  This Tung Sol is also good sounding in the GOTL.



Glad someone else is trying these tubes. These Tung-Sols probably sound almost identical to my Tung-Sol 6J5G, great tubes, and they cost around $30 a pair.  Glass shape is different but internals are identical.  The performance-to-price ratio is crazy high.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> I did use the EL8 extensively. It draws 0.5A and is supposed to be a half power EL3. On a lark I plugged in a pair of Telefunken tubular EL11 tubes that I had lying around. These draw 0.9A and are supposed to be identical with the Philips EL3N except for the base. The sound I got is spectacular - the best I have heard yet from the GOTL.
> 
> 
> ...



Hello Mordy...

Nice glue job on the EL11's  
Since you have the EL3N's and the adapters - did you compare EL3N to EL11 to see if they sound exactly the same?

And I hear ya on the EL's used in the C3g sockets...and then adding that third driver!   Same thing happens here!!  

I am using the EL32's 100% of the time.  I can use them + a lower mu SN7 driver with the 6BX or BL7's.  Only the 6N7/12N7 family demand lower mu powers.

I never get any pops/crackles at all and I am using the China adapters for EL32.

I will say the use of EL tubes in the C3g sockets along with the SN7 driver, massively enhances details, and makes the sound stage so holographic, that I really do not want to run without them.

Cheerios


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glad someone else is trying these tubes. These Tung-Sols probably sound almost identical to my Tung-Sol 6J5G, great tubes, and they cost around $30 a pair.  Glass shape is different but internals are identical.  The performance-to-price ratio is crazy high.



I paid $9.95 plus $4.35 ship for the Tung Sol 12J5's  

Bargain, indeed!!

And yes, thank you @L0rdGwyn for alerting me to the dual 6J5 adapter for GOTL...absolutely loving it!  Plus EL32's and wowzers...a magic carpet ride!


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> did you compare EL3N to EL11 to see if they sound exactly the same?



Again, EL3N and EL11 manufactured in the same factory at about the same time sound the same. The base doesn't matter.

For example, I have pairs of EL3N and EL11, manufactured in Philips Loewe Opta factory, located in Berlin, in the early 1960's. And to my ears, as expected, they sound identical.

But since I believe that these tubes were manufactured in at least 5 different Philips factories, finding pairs of both the EL3N and EL11 from the same factory, manufactured at about the same time, can be a challenge.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Again, EL3N and EL11 manufactured in the same factory at about the same time sound the same. The base doesn't matter.
> 
> For example, I have pairs of EL3N and EL11, manufactured in Philips Loewe Opta factory, located in Berlin, in the early 1960's. And to my ears, as expected, they sound identical.
> 
> But since I believe that these tubes were manufactured in at least 5 different Philips factories, finding pairs of both the EL3N and EL11 from the same factory, manufactured at about the same time, can be a challenge.



Right-o, good to know, G..!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Won some more Japanese tubes today, a pair of Nippon Electric 6520, the "high-reliability" version of the 6AS7G.  The Nippon Electric 6AS7G are nice power tubes, these most likely sound the same as the ones I have, but you never know. I have a quad of the NEC 6AS7G on the way to me right now too, gonna send a pair to Glenn for him to try.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Won some more Japanese tubes today, a pair of Nippon Electric 6520, the "high-reliability" version of the 6AS7G.  The Nippon Electric 6AS7G are nice power tubes, these most likely sound the same as the ones I have, but you never know. I have a quad of the NEC 6AS7G on the way to me right now too, gonna send a pair to Glenn for him to try.



Nice tubes
Cant wait to try the NEC 6AS7 vrs the GEC 6AS7 and maybe give the GECs a rest for awhile.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Selamat pagi / Good morning 

Plan to test the GEC 6AS7G, but first, out with the TS 5998 and in with the WE421A..

 

 

Gonna put in some proper effort with the 6 pack tubes after testing out the prized toys, I quite liked how the 6x 6BX7 sounded yesterday, so gonna continue with 6x 6BL7s tonight or tomorrow. So many possibilities...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UsoppNoKami said:


> Selamat pagi / Good morning
> 
> Plan to test the GEC 6AS7G, but first, out with the TS 5998 and in with the WE421A..
> 
> ...



ECC32 is one of my favorite drivers in the GOTL.  It pairs well with the 421A, 6BX7 too.  It will be my default at ZMFestivus tomorrow, along with a sixer of Toshiba 6BX7  you really can't go wrong with it!  And it's purdy.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Selamat pagi / Good morning
> 
> Plan to test the GEC 6AS7G, but first, out with the TS 5998 and in with the WE421A..



Selamat pagi lol. It's been a long time time since I heard that. 

Ohayōgozaimasu ! Means give me all your Western Electric tubes.

I bought a power conditioner. Also pick up my Curious and Chord RCA cables. And bought 2 power cords.


----------



## UntilThen

Pippen, the Curious RCA cable looks amazing in the flesh. It has this snake skin pattern on the chord.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> A fine way to end the night - listening to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon through the Verite, with ECC32, TS 5998 and WE 422A on Glenn's custom adaptor in the amp.



Indeed a nice choice of song for this very special tube combination with GOTL and Verite Pheasant Wood LTD. We have identical headphone ! 

I have Dark Side of the Moon on 180gm vinyl, SACD version and a digital ripped Flac version which I play back on JRiver 24 Media Centre or Audirvana 3 as my mood dictates. The vinyl version through Rega RP8 and Apheta cartridge is the best to my ears. So life like and organic sounding through Axis LS88.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 5, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Mordy...
> 
> Nice glue job on the EL11's
> Since you have the EL3N's and the adapters - did you compare EL3N to EL11 to see if they sound exactly the same?
> ...


I'm enjoying the recent developments especially on this page and especially seeing this thread get more on track, finally, LOL...

While it is possible for the EL3N and EL11 to sound identical since they are (electrically) identical, I think it largely depends on whether or not they are made at the same factory; most of them aren't and especially in the case with the most readily available EL3N, Philips brand; they sound radically different from eachiother; the EL11's being generally much more dynamic and clear with more detailed highs, and EL3Ns largely the opposite with a warm laid back sound. But at least that was on the F.A. amps that were not biased properly for EL tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> EL11's being generally much more dynamic and clear with sweeter trouble, and EL3Ns largely the opposite with a warm laid back sound. But at least that was on the F.A. amps that were not biased properly for EL tubes.



Pretty much my experience of Telefunken EL11 and Philips Miniwatt EL3N from Acoustics Dimension on GOTL. 

I have stated this several times.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 5, 2019)

@UntilThen congrats are on order for your giant leap you made (all in the same day?) for upgraded aftermarket power cord, RCA interconnects _and _power conditioner! Hoping not to cause expectation bias, but I'm predicting a huge change in sound. For the worse, haHAha. Seriously though the power conditioner will likely need some burn in hours to shine but I don't believe in cable burn-in.

If you folks are tired of hearing about my EL tube impressions based off Feliks Audio amps maybe Glenn can send my EL34 / EL39 / KT66 'El Darwin' amp sooner then I won't have to


----------



## UntilThen

DL the things I bought are not new but mint condition so I expect they had been burn in. The power conditioner came from the seller of my Studio Six. I’m slowing buying what he has lol.


----------



## UntilThen

Yup with power conditioner, power cords including one Isotek, rca cables, if there is an improvement then I wouldn’t know what cause it. It will be a Big Bang approach. I will get oxygen mask ready.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes all collected on same day today except the power conditioner when I go back to Canberra on Monday. I don’t buy things on weekdays - working !

So only weekends buying, 

Anyway I don’t see myself buying cables all the time. Only once will do.


----------



## UntilThen

Not expecting it to sound better but it will look better with big fat cables from USA and UK.


----------



## UntilThen

Anyone use a Schiit Freya or the newer version Schiit Freya + preamp. I'm interested in getting a preamp that doesn't cost a kidney. Maybe just a bit of skin.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> maybe Glenn can send my EL34 / EL39 / KT66 'El Darwin' amp sooner



Was going to talk about Darwin's theory of evolution for your amp but let's not even start that.


----------



## chrisdrop (Oct 5, 2019)

Hey @mordy. This is an interesting and different base from what seems to be one of the common defaults power platforms; 6x 6BX7's. _(probably more common that I am aware, just been aggregating recent recommendations)_



mordy said:


> I have found a great platform for power tubes (4x6080) with the addition of a pair of drivers in the C3g sockets, and I basically just roll the front driver.



Are you saying you have something fixed in the C3gs too? If so - what  ?


----------



## 2359glenn

Just bought a pair of these for spares in my new preamp.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glad someone else is trying these tubes. These Tung-Sols probably sound almost identical to my Tung-Sol 6J5G, great tubes, and they cost around $30 a pair.  Glass shape is different but internals are identical.  The performance-to-price ratio is crazy high.




I am leaning towards using L63/6J5 and SN7  driver tubes in my EL34/KT66/KT77/KT63  amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> Hey @mordy. This is an interesting and different base from what seems to be one of the common defaults power platforms; 6x 6BX7's. _(probably more common that I am aware, just been aggregating recent recommendations)_
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying you have something fixed in the C3gs too? If so - what  ?



I think he has adapters from C3g to EL3N or EL8 and another adapter to EL32

You will get a decent set of tubes to start out with a Brimar 13D1/25SN7 and two Brimar 6080s for outputs.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Just bought a pair of these for spares in my new preamp.



Very nice Glenn!


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Very nice Glenn!



I don't like coated tubes that much but they are shielded so might be quieter then the uncoated ones that look so nice.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I don't like coated tubes that much but they are shielded so might be quieter then the uncoated ones that look so nice.




Makes perfect sense, that coating is on there for a reason.Still is a great looking tube even with coating  
At times I wish the EL3N tubes put off a nicer glow but then you hear them and all is good!

I like the glow, but I always keep the shields on my c3g and I have been lucky have a few quiet pair.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Just bought a pair of these for spares in my new preamp.



Those look great, I'll be getting a pair myself at some point, can't wait to hear what you think.  When do you think you'll have your preamp converted, Glenn?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> I am leaning towards using L63/6J5 and SN7  driver tubes in my EL34/KT66/KT77/KT63  amp.



Awesome, in that case I think your amp would be very similar to what Leftside and I will be having built.  I think the 6J5 will look very nice with dedicated sockets and there's a lot of variey.  Even the most expensive ones are cheaper than the best 6SN7s.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Awesome, in that case I think your amp would be very similar to what Leftside and I will be having built.  I think the 6J5 will look very nice with dedicated sockets and there's a lot of variey.  Even the most expensive ones are cheaper than the best 6SN7s.




Yeah, I much liked @leftside idea when he first mentioned it, and he has been of help to me with some of these tubes  

The driver tubes has been my only hang up...not sure what I want to use there....Glenn also suggested the L63/6J5 driver
The three power tubes that I have tried in GEL3N amp other than the EL3N...all sound killer.
EL34..EL37..KT63

If you are getting a EL3N amp....These are very, very good and can be gotten for the same price as EL3N...makes for a great tube roll in the EL3N that won't break the bank.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 5, 2019)

chrisdrop said:


> Are you saying you have something fixed in the C3gs too? If so - what?



He clarified his setup here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2137#post-15226721


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, I much liked @leftside idea when he first mentioned it, and he has been of help to me with some of these tubes
> 
> The driver tubes has been my only hang up...not sure what I want to use there....Glenn also suggested the L63/6J5 driver
> The three power tubes that I have tried in GEL3N amp other than the EL3N...all sound killer.
> ...



Thanks Joe, I'll look into those KT63, they are gorgeous.  If you wanted to give them a spin, could grab an adapter and a cheap pair of 6J5 to try in your GOTL.  If you wanted I could even let you borrow my adapter and a pair or two, I have plenty of other tubes to listen to and some very good sounding 6J5s.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Those look great, I'll be getting a pair myself at some point, can't wait to hear what you think.  When do you think you'll have your preamp converted, Glenn?



I would say end of next month.  Have to build amps first not stuff for me


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks Joe, I'll look into those KT63, they are gorgeous.  If you wanted to give them a spin, could grab an adapter and a cheap pair of 6J5 to try in your GOTL.  If you wanted I could even let you borrow my adapter and a pair or two, I have plenty of other tubes to listen to and some very good sounding 6J5s.



I may take you up on this...just to confirm..     Will pay you back.

I also have been wondering if driver circuit that will bias ECC32 would be much difference than Glenns regular 6SN7 circut....I wonder if this can sound better than it does now....which is sublime anyway.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> I may take you up on this...just to confirm..     Will pay you back.
> 
> I also have been wondering if driver circuit that will bias ECC32 would be much difference than Glenns regular 6SN7 circut....I wonder if this can sound better than it does now....which is sublime anyway.



Cool just let me know!  Shipping would be cheap of course  hard to believe getting more performance out of the ECC32.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I also have been wondering if driver circuit that will bias ECC32 would be much difference than Glenns regular 6SN7 circut....I wonder if this can sound better than it does now....which is sublime anyway.



@2359glenn:
On this subject, I have been wondering if the C3g sockets could be biased differently, to make the most of EL32's?


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> @2359glenn:
> On this subject, I have been wondering if the C3g sockets could be biased differently, to make the most of EL32's?



Why not anything can be done.
Just get it made with EL32s


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I would say end of next month.  Have to build amps first not stuff for me




So the 27 tubes will be history.


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes I changed the sockets from 5 pin to 8 pin octal. The beauty of old Amphenol sockets they all can be fit in the same size hole.
Even the smaller 9 pin and 7 pin miniature tube sockets will fit in a octal size socket.
The 4,5,6,7 and octal socket are still made but for $24 each is to much for a regular socket.
Also I changed the filament voltage from 2.5 to 6.3 volts DC so no going back.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Yes I changed the sockets from 5 pin to 8 pin octal. The beauty of old Amphenol sockets they all can be fit in the same size hole.
> Even the smaller 9 pin and 7 pin miniature tube sockets will fit in a octal size socket.
> The 4,5,6,7 and octal socket are still made but for $24 each is to much for a regular socket.
> Also I changed the filament voltage from 2.5 to 6.3 volts DC so no going back.



OK...got you.
I hope you post a pic when complete.


----------



## 2359glenn

That was in my headphone amp my preamp still uses #26 tubes going to change to the MH4/REN904.
The #26 is hard to find ones that are not noisy.  Sure hope these MH4s are quiet or I spent allot of money on junk.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> That was in my headphone amp my preamp still uses #26 tubes going to change to the MH4/REN904.
> The #26 is hard to find ones that are not noisy.  Sure hope these MH4s are quiet or I spent allot of money on junk.



Hope so too, saw that set of five MH4 went for around $200.

I'll have to check with Deyan and see how the MH4 adapter is coming along.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 5, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> That was in my headphone amp my preamp still uses #26 tubes going to change to the MH4/REN904.
> The #26 is hard to find ones that are not noisy.  Sure hope these MH4s are quiet or I spent allot of money on junk.



OK 27 tubes were in amp and 26's in pre-amp
I hope the MH4's are quiet for you as well.

I have not used the OTL much lately...giving it a spin with the Atticus now checking out some driver tubes.
Been occupied with planars and EL3N amp.

Going to compare these three set-ups this weekend....with many albums
to compare drivers...I know two different amps...but still. C3g/EL3N/ECC32


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Listening to VC on the 300b right now, holy crap.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> Listening to VC on the 300b right now, holy crap.



Please elaborate.  Some of us will be enjoying ZMFestivus through your posts.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Listening to VC on the 300b right now, holy crap.



Oh my...this has to be killer...you lucky dog!
Man, wish I was there!


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Listening to VC on the 300b right now, holy crap.



I'm sure jealous of you guys at ZMFestivus.

Those 300Bs are no joke and made by Glenn! I can imagine the synergy with the Verite and Verite Closed. Have fun LG!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

GDuss said:


> Please elaborate.  Some of us will be enjoying ZMFestivus through your posts.



I will after the event!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 5, 2019)

Now VC on my GOTL.  Oh yeah, I'm buying these.  Space, air, speed are top notch and sound amazing on the GOTL.  Can't believe these are closed.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Now VC on my GOTL.  Oh yeah, I'm buying these.  Space, air, speed are top notch and sound amazing on the GOTL.  Can't believe these are closed.




Very nice....awesome hearing them with your gear.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Listening to VC on the 300b right now, holy crap.



Nice. Now you you must walk up to Zach and Bevin and give them a hug for me! Great folks. 



L0rdGwyn said:


> Now VC on my GOTL.  Oh yeah, I'm buying these.  Space, air, speed are top notch and sound amazing on the GOTL.  Can't believe these are closed.



I told ya!


----------



## 2359glenn

Dam I wish I was there.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Dam I wish I was there.



Your 300b is quite the conversation starter Glenn, it's like people are seeing Bigfoot for the first time.


----------



## Monsterzero

Darthpool said:


> Well, just listened to them out of a Glenn...the hype is real! Wow...what a great sounding amp! It synergizes exceptionally well with the VC...
> 
> Also, the Desert Iron wood VC is even better looking in person, looks like liquid sand...you know like those water and sand art pieces...





2359glenn said:


> Dam I wish I was there.


----------



## leftside (Oct 5, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Your 300b is quite the conversation starter Glenn, it's like people are seeing Bigfoot for the first time.


@2359glenn how many of the 300B did you say you've made Glenn? 11?

The 300B certainly likes the higher impedance cans.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> @2359glenn how many of the 300B did you say you've made Glenn? 11?



About that. They are good sounding amps wish I could get this sound with cheaper tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

Glenn, how many amps do you think you have made total, including all kinds ?


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Glenn, how many amps do you think you have made total, including all kinds ?



101 by now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Glenn, how many amps do you think you have made total, including all kinds ?



Yes, hope Glenn has a spreadsheet with every build documented


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> About that. They are good sounding amps wish I could get this sound with cheaper tubes.



Tony Newman rave about his 300b amp. He thinks the world of it. Only recently he speaks highly of it in the Verite Open thread and post several pictures of the 300b amp. Tony more than anyone is the ambassador for the Glenn 300b amp and he has no qualms about spending on a pair of Takatsuki 300b for it. Says even the cheaper EML 300b mesh plates are a good alternative.

It's possible I may ditch Berlin for a Glenn 300b amp. It's a fitting finale.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> It's possible I may ditch Berlin for a Glenn 300b amp. It's a fitting finale.


----------



## UntilThen

Monster, Berlin would cost as much as a 300b amp. It's using the same size transformers. It's a decision I have to weigh up. An experimental amp that cost $4000 or an amp that uses the 300b tubes which I've heard in the Woo Audio WA5. Never heard better midrange and 3D experience.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Monster, Berlin would cost as much as a 300b amp. It's using the same size transformers. It's a decision I have to weigh up. An experimental amp that cost $4000 or an amp that uses the 300b tubes which I've heard in the Woo Audio WA5. Never heard better midrange and 3D experience.


 Matt,you know I love you and just busting your balls,but someone needs to keep your amp nervosa in check.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Matt,you know I love you and just busting your balls,but someone needs to keep your amp nervosa in check.



Haha mate the love is reciprocal. I mean it - come and visit me in Sydney and we'll have a ball. As for my amp nervosa, it will be my last headphone amp before I turn my attention to my stereo system and travelling. So there is room for one more amp. Whether Berlin or 300b amp the spend will be similar.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Monster, Berlin would cost as much as a 300b amp. It's using the same size transformers. It's a decision I have to weigh up. An experimental amp that cost $4000 or an amp that uses the 300b tubes which I've heard in the Woo Audio WA5. Never heard better midrange and 3D experience.



The Berlin will cost less no meters no bias power supply's.
The Berlin might sound as good with much cheaper tubes!!  Personally I think the EL3N sounds as good as the 300B for 1/2 the money
And the EL3N is $20 each and 300B Taks are $1400 each. 
I am switching my 300Bs to EL12spez or EL34s for this reason I will not spend $1400 on a tube. And if you don't buy the best 300Bs
the filaments burn out for no good reason. I had enough of 300Bs don't even know if I will build another one.


----------



## UntilThen

I've heard Telefunken EL11 and EL12 spez as a proof of concept. It's a fast, dynamic sound. Great tone. On the other hand, I've also heard Woo Audio WA5 with Brimar CV1988, Takatsuki 300bs and EML mesh plate rectifiers. It's a lush and gorgeously textured sound. I just wish it had faster speed and bite. 

Enter the Glenn 300b amp - with c3g in the equation, I can imagine a lush, gorgeously textured tone with bite, dynamics and fast transient. I think the resultant tone will be arresting and irresistible, especially with Verite Open. Nevermind the Verite Close I've not heard it yet.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The Berlin will cost less no meters no bias power supply's.
> The Berlin might sound as good with much cheaper tubes!!  Personally I think the EL3N sounds as good as the 300B for 1/2 the money
> And the EL3N is $20 each and 300B Taks are $1400 each.
> I am switching my 300Bs to EL12spez or EL34s for this reason I will not spend $1400 on a tube. And if you don't buy the best 300Bs
> the filaments burn out for no good reason. I had enough of 300Bs don't even know if I will build another one.



Hahaha..... when the Glenn Studios designer put forth an argument as compelling as this..... Berlin might escape the gallows. 

Glenn, I'm going to chew on what you said while doing a sky dive later this afternoon. If I survive the dive, it will be Berlin. If I don't survive the dive, it will be the 300b amp. That's wisdom better than Solomon.


----------



## UntilThen

Now I wonder if Zach brings the GEL3N to ZMF Festivities. I need someone to listen to both the GEL3N and 300b amp and tell me what they hear.


----------



## 2359glenn

Just stay in the plain and chew on it with a normal landing.
I had a filament burn out on one of my KR globe 300Bs this pair cost $1000. Now using one KR and one Electro Harmonix because one of them the filament burned out.
The only good 300Bs I had were WesternElectric and I stupidly sold them.
At this time I spent thousands on 300Bs and don't even have a pair that looks alike no less sounds alike.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Just stay in the plain and chew on it with a normal landing.
> I had a filament burn out on one of my KR globe 300Bs this pair cost $1000. Now using one KR and one Electro Harmonix because one of them the filament burned out.
> The only good 300Bs I had were WesternElectric and I stupidly sold them.
> At this time I spent thousands on 300Bs and don't even have a pair that looks alike no less sounds alike.



Hahaha you have a sense of humour Glenn. Just a normal landing.....

And a pair of 300b tubes that don’t look alike and sound alike lol.

That make me laugh alright.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Enter the Glenn 300b amp - with c3g in the equation, I can imagine a lush, gorgeously textured tone with bite, dynamics and fast transient.


Nope  Definitely not lush. Think airy, detailed, neutral, spacious, accurate, revealing, powerful. Get the WA5


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Hahaha you have a sense of humour Glenn. Just a normal landing.....
> 
> And a pair of 300b tubes that don’t look alike and sound alike lol.
> 
> That make me laugh alright.



I have gone through so many 300Bs since I sold my WEs that it is not funny.
That is why I am trying to talk you out of it.  Unless you don't mind paying or Taks I don't know what is up with WE and there new 300B.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> And the EL3N is $20 each and 300B Taks are $1400 each..


Not quite. But, still the most I've ever spent on tubes:
https://www.partsconnexion.com/TSUKI-83944.html


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Nope  Definitely not lush. Think airy, detailed, neutral, spacious, accurate, revealing, powerful. Get the WA5



Are your 300Bs Taks??


----------



## DecentLevi

I for one nod towards the Glenn EL amps. In my understanding these should have the potential to sound equally as impressive as his 300B amp depending on preference / tubes used, BUT with these extra incentives: More fine tuning options using the likes of KT66 / 77, EL34, EL3N, EL12 Spez, etc., tubes much cheaper and can last longer, amp cheaper also. Glenn himself said the GEL3N amp sounds just as good, and Whirlwind has confirmed that the EL3N amp can also sound great with other tubes. So the 'Berlin' route should definitely be for you unless you like spending more for less features and lower reliability.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Glenn, I'm going to chew on what you said while doing a sky dive later this afternoon. If I survive the dive, it will be Berlin. If I don't survive the dive, it will be the 300b amp. That's wisdom better than Solomon.


Is it your first jump? Did my first one last year with the wife on a beautiful sunny day in Golden BC. The most nerve wracking moment is putting your legs outside the plane, and resting your feet on the wing whilst the guide was taking videos.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Are your 300Bs Taks??


Yes. Go big or go home. This was going to be my last amp and last set of tubes.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Is it your first jump? Did my first one last year with the wife on a beautiful sunny day in Golden BC. The most nerve wracking moment is putting your legs outside the plane, and resting your feet on the wing whilst the guide was taking videos.


 I have caught rattlesnakes with my bare hands. My ultimate bucketlist adventure is to swim with Great Whites. So majestic! 
However theres not enough cash in the world that one could offer me to jump out of a perfectly working airplane. Not a chance in hell. No way. Un-uh.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Yes. Go big or go home. This was going to be my last amp and last set of tubes.



Yes the Taks are the right thing to do I would have been money ahead if I bought them.
Are you going to try the WEs if they ever start selling them?


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Nope  Definitely not lush. Think airy, detailed, neutral, spacious, accurate, revealing, powerful. Get the WA5



Nope, lush and textured without the airiness, bite and dynamics are not for me. So as much as I love hearing Utopia and Abyss through Yggdrasil > Woo Audio WA5, I prefer GOTL with Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6bx7gt.

Your description of the Glenn 300b amp tone is what I like.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Not quite. But, still the most I've ever spent on tubes:
> https://www.partsconnexion.com/TSUKI-83944.html



Leftside is a diehard 300b amp fan.


----------



## pippen99

What goes up definitely has to come down.  What goes down doesn't necessarily have to come up.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Nope, lush and textured without the airiness, bite and dynamics are not for me. So as much as I love hearing Utopia and Abyss through Yggdrasil > Woo Audio WA5, I prefer GOTL with Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6bx7gt.
> 
> Your description of the Glenn 300b amp tone is what I like.



The output transformers used in the 300B amp are everything!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was going to use the same output transformers as in the 300B in the Berlin.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Is it your first jump? Did my first one last year with the wife on a beautiful sunny day in Golden BC. The most nerve wracking moment is putting your legs outside the plane, and resting your feet on the wing whilst the guide was taking videos.



Yes first dive. I hope it's a gorgeous female instructor I'll be strapped to jumping out of the plane. Yeehaa.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> The output transformers used in the 300B amp are everything!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I was going to use the same output transformers as in the 300B in the Berlin.


 @2359glenn will the Berlin be able to drive ridiculously hard to drive headphones like the Abyss and HE6,as well as speakers?


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> @2359glenn will the Berlin be able to drive ridiculously hard to drive headphones like the Abyss and HE6,as well as speakers?



Yes it should be as much power as the 300B that can easily drive these headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> @2359glenn will the Berlin be able to drive ridiculously hard to drive headphones like the Abyss and HE6,as well as speakers?





2359glenn said:


> Yes it should be as much power as the 300B that can easily drive these headphones.



I'm drooling now even as I eat my breakfast. 10 watts output from Berlin is what Glenn said. 300b outputs 8 watts.


----------



## UntilThen

After a year I'll trade Berlin with Leftside for his 300b.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> After a year I'll trade Berlin with Leftside for his 300b.



I don't think Leftside will give up his 300B


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Yes the Taks are the right thing to do I would have been money ahead if I bought them.
> Are you going to try the WEs if they ever start selling them?


Not sure. I'll at least wait a year or two after they come out.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The output transformers used in the 300B amp are everything!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I was going to use the same output transformers as in the 300B in the Berlin.



I think this is where I overlook things most of the time. In a SET amp, the output transformers are the most important.


----------



## dminches

I used Tak 300s in my Glenn 300B for a long time until I tried a pair of Shuguang HiFi 300B-98B which cost about $210 per pair.  I prefer them and use them most of the time.  They are also nicer than a pair of newer Elrog 300Bs.


----------



## UntilThen

dminches said:


> I used Tak 300s in my Glenn 300B for a long time until I tried a pair of Shuguang HiFi 300B-98B which cost about $210 per pair.  I prefer them and use them most of the time.  They are also nicer than a pair of newer Elrog 300Bs.



Ha an alternative 300b tube.  Incidentally did you finally sell off your 300b amp? It was the one photo of the 300b amp that I like the most.


----------



## dminches

I have not.  I really haven’t been motivated even though I would.  If someone approached me I would definitely consider it.  I just don’t listen to headphones as often as I used to.


----------



## UntilThen

I have amassed all these Telefunken EL11s and EL12 spez that the only way to go is forward. Besides Glenn is very keen on Berlin and that is a very good sign. After that, 3 tube amps is definitely enough for headphones and I won't get rid of any of them. Studio Six and GOTL sounds too good at the moment. They are keepers.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> I used Tak 300s in my Glenn 300B for a long time until I tried a pair of Shuguang HiFi 300B-98B which cost about $210 per pair.  I prefer them and use them most of the time.  They are also nicer than a pair of newer Elrog 300Bs.



Wow I will have to try them for $210 not bad at all.  Just will they last my 300B amps are on at least 5  hrs a day.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> Wow I will have to try them for $210 not bad at all.  Just will they last my 300B amps are on at least 5  hrs a day.



If you bias them correctly!


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> If you bias them correctly!



For me it is usually the filaments burning out for no good reason other then the tubes are made like crap today.
A old WE was good for 40,000 hrs


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> For me it is usually the filaments burning out for no good reason other then the tubes are made like crap today.
> A old WE was good for 40,000 hrs



For $200 it is worth a try. I probably don’t drive them as hard as you do.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Shuguang HiFi 300B-98B





dminches said:


> For $200 it is worth a try. I probably don’t drive them as hard as you do.



I run 300Bs at 70ma not that hard I think they sound best at 70ma usually sound better if driven harder but don't like to do that.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 5, 2019)

I posted some ZMFestivus II pics in the event thread, taken with my phone unfortunately, the lighting was not good in the event space for non-flash photography.

Spent a good amount of time with the VO and VC on the 300B and my GOTL.

Now I don't want to get crazy with the impressions since it added up to probably a half hour total listening time, but I agree with @Monsterzero that the VC is a bit brighter than the VO.  Wouldn't call them bright, but the treble is slightly more present.  I think the VO have a slightly softer sound, a little less attack, than the VC (all relative of course, these are both super fast headphones).  Also, the bass on the VC hits hard, a little harder than the VO.  Soundstage on the VO is obviously a bit larger than the VC, but not by a lot!  If I hadn't already heard the VC were impressively spacious for a closed back, I would have been absolutely shocked by it.  Those were my main takeaways.  Both sounded excellent on the GOTL and the 300B, I bopped back and forth.

Also, the 300B is a fantastic amp, spacious, airy, detailed, but I have to admit, I thought the GOTL kept up with it quite well.  I had a pair of MOV L63 and Toshiba 6BX7 in there and didn't feel a lot was lost going back and forth, more serious listening and in a quieter environment probably would have shown more differences.

@2359glenn , you make some killer amps, everyone was impressed by them.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I posted some ZMFestivus II pics in the event thread, taken with my phone unfortunately, the lighting was not good in the event space for non-flash photography.
> 
> Spent a good amount of time with the VO and VC on the 300B and my GOTL.
> 
> ...



I try my best to make good sounding amps and use parts I think sound good.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> I posted some ZMFestivus II pics in the event thread, taken with my phone unfortunately, the lighting was not good in the event space for non-flash photography.
> 
> Spent a good amount of time with the VO and VC on the 300B and my GOTL.
> 
> ...



This is great, thanks for the write-up.  Lots of good things to hear in your comments.  Of course nice to hear GOTL can hang with the 300B (with your caveats of being at a show).  Also good to hear some added comparisons between VO and VC.  Looks like it was a fun event.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 5, 2019)

Hi guys can someone tell me what does "SET" and "push pull" amp mean? Glenn told me if I want my amp powerful enough for the Elac Debut 6 v2 speakers which are min. 30 watts he would have to make it a push pull amp not SET. I believe the GELN type amp is SET but I don't know what that stands for (is it the same as OTC; output transformer-coupled?), or what any pros / cons are to a push pull amp? Or what that is. Or if both amps use the same transformer if any. Thanks! Maybe this is something for @gibosi


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Hi guys can someone tell me what does "SET" and "push pull" amp mean? Glenn told me if I want my amp powerful enough for the Elac Debut 6 v2 speakers which are min. 30 watts he would have to make it a push pull amp not SET. I believe the GELN type amp is SET but I don't know what that stands for (is it the same as OTC; output transformer-coupled?), or what any pros / cons are to a push pull amp? Or what that is. Or if both amps use the same transformer if any. Thanks! Maybe this is something for @gibosi



Set means single ended triode I feel this sounds best. One signal goes through the amp not split into opposites and put back together.   
Push pull has a phase inverter making two opposite signals (balanced) to two output tubes then is put back together in the output transformer.
With KT88 or 6550 tubes this can put out 100 watts. But I still think SET sounds better but people will argue the point.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I posted some ZMFestivus II pics in the event thread, taken with my phone unfortunately, the lighting was not good in the event space for non-flash photography.
> 
> Spent a good amount of time with the VO and VC on the 300B and my GOTL.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the impressions. A pity you didn't get to listen to the Studio Six but with so many great gear there who can blame you. So you think GOTL kept up quite well with the 300b amp? Wouldn't be surprised but wait till you hear Berlin. 

Glenn does make beautiful sounding amps just going by the GOTL alone. That recognition is overdue.

P/S ... from your description, I will still love the Verite Open but a Verite Close might be a possibility for 2020. I believe in taking my time.


----------



## leftside

DecentLevi said:


> Hi guys can someone tell me what does "SET" and "push pull" amp mean? Glenn told me if I want my amp powerful enough for the Elac Debut 6 v2 speakers which are min. 30 watts he would have to make it a push pull amp not SET. I believe the GELN type amp is SET but I don't know what that stands for (is it the same as OTC; output transformer-coupled?), or what any pros / cons are to a push pull amp? Or what that is. Or if both amps use the same transformer if any. Thanks! Maybe this is something for @gibosi


There's a reason I have push-pull mono block amps for my main speakers, and am looking at another SET amp for my next headphone amp (after my OTL amp is built). Getting a single device to do two things is always a compromise, unless you have very efficient main speakers.
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46592

Google "SET vs push-pull".


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Set means single ended triode I feel this sounds best. One signal goes through the amp not split into opposites and put back together.
> Push pull has a phase inverter making two opposite signals (balanced) to two output tubes then is put back together in the output transformer.
> With KT88 or 6550 tubes this can put out 100 watts. But I still think SET sounds better but people will argue the point.



Berlin will be SET. I won't have it any other way. That's class A of the sweetest sound. My Sansui and Redgum outputs 160 and 175 watts into 8 ohms respectively so if I need more power those will step up to it but for pure musicality with a pair of tube amp friendly efficient speakers, it's SET amp for me.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Getting a single device to do two things is always a compromise, unless you have very efficient main speakers.



That is spot on. Berlin is first and foremost a headphone amp. Driving speakers with it is secondary and not even a must. It should however drive HE6se and Abyss very well.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> There's a reason I have push-pull mono block amps for my main speakers, and am looking at another SET amp for my next headphone amp (after my OTL amp is built). Getting a single device to do two things is always a compromise, unless you have very efficient main speakers.
> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46592
> 
> Google "SET vs push-pull".



To drive big speakers push pull is a must a 100 watt SET is crazy using a 1000 watt 833 tube with high voltage and all that heat.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Thanks for the impressions. A pity you didn't get to listen to the Studio Six but with so many great gear there who can blame you. So you think GOTL kept up quite well with the 300b amp? Wouldn't be surprised but wait till you hear Berlin.
> 
> Glenn does make beautiful sounding amps just going by the GOTL alone. That recognition is overdue.
> 
> P/S ... from your description, I will still love the Verite Open but a Verite Close might be a possibility for 2020. I believe in taking my time.



Yes I did, but with limited listening and a specific tube roll, I am sure the gap can widen or narrow depending on what tubes are used.  When I spotted the Studio Six I thought of you, but Campfire had it connected to their newish closed back, which I don't have much interest in.  I thought it would be rude to bring a headphone over only to listen to the amp and not their headphones haha!

VO and VC are both incredible, from my listening today you cannot go wrong with either, just a matter of preference, they obviously share many similarities.


----------



## dminches

Glenn, do you remember what the output impedance of my amp is?  How were the Lundahl transformers wound?


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 5, 2019)

My Blue Jeans RCA interconnects that you guys recommended came in today. I am so astonished by the build quality and beauty of these things, especially given the modest price that maybe I'll just admire the beauty of these things instead of using them


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes I did, but with limited listening and a specific tube roll, I am sure the gap can widen or narrow depending on what tubes are used.  When I spotted the Studio Six I thought of you, but Campfire had it connected to their newish closed back, which I don't have much interest in.  I thought it would be rude to bring a headphone over only to listen to the amp and not their headphones haha!
> 
> VO and VC are both incredible, from my listening today you cannot go wrong with either, just a matter of preference, they obviously share many similarities.



That’s understandable. You can’t plug in your headphones in Studio Six willy nilly but then there’s 4 input slots !!! Haha

I should know about Verite Open. I have live with it for 1.6 months.  It’s good enough to make me sell of my LCD-3f !


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> When I spotted the Studio Six I thought of you



I sure hope I’m not sole representative of Studio Six haha. Was Ken Ball there? Haven’t seen him on the thread for a while. Thomas Marten the circuit designer was an articulate participant on the SS thread. A very nice person to talk to. Mike Mercer, Currawong and Darko are some of the more prominent players who love the Studio Six lots.


----------



## 2359glenn

dminches said:


> Glenn, do you remember what the output impedance of my amp is?  How were the Lundahl transformers wound?



I hooked up the output transformer for 32 ohms that should be good for most headphones. could have wired them for 2,4,8,16,32,or 120 ohms


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I sure hope I’m not sole representative of Studio Six haha. Was Ken Ball there? Haven’t seen him on the thread for a while. Thomas Marten the circuit designer was an articulate participant on the SS thread. A very nice person to talk to. Mike Mercer, Currawong and Darko are some of the more prominent players who love the Studio Six lots.



No reps, Campfire Audio just brought an ALO setup along with some signage from what I could tell.  They had four Cascades hooked up to the Studio Six! Talk about efficient.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> I hooked up the output transformer for 32 ohms that should be good for most headphones. could have wired them for 2,4,8,16,32,or 120 ohms



I found an old email. 36 ohms.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> No reps, Campfire Audio just brought an ALO setup along with some signage from what I could tell.  They had four Cascades hooked up to the Studio Six! Talk about efficient.


The Cascades are silly easy to drive,and super warm and bassy. Made the Atticus sound like a treble cannon.


----------



## DecentLevi

2359glenn said:


> Set means single ended triode I feel this sounds best. One signal goes through the amp not split into opposites and put back together.
> Push pull has a phase inverter making two opposite signals (balanced) to two output tubes then is put back together in the output transformer.
> With KT88 or 6550 tubes this can put out 100 watts. But I still think SET sounds better but people will argue the point.


Excellent all thanks for explaining that. If you say SET sounds better that's the way I'll have it! It's primarily a headphone amp and I'll see later about the speakers. And I don't want to waste too much energy and push the tubes harder than needed.
The above just came up due to @mordy 's suggestion for the Elac Debut 6 v2 speakers which are not too efficient but maybe I'll see if it will be driven loudly enough for a small room. If not they're not too costly anyway, and some output tubes will drive it better than others.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 5, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> The Cascades are silly easy to drive,and super warm and bassy. Made the Atticus sound like a treble cannon.



That's what I've heard, I probably should have given them a listen for future reference, but there was a metric ton of gear.  Oddly enough, one of the biggest surprises for me was a discontinued amp called the Grommes PHI-26.  Head-amp/pre-amp, can run efficient speakers, triode/pentode switch, 6 watts out in pentode mode, 2 watts in triode.  Apparently it was pretty highly regarded in the late 2000s, another short run of them was done around 2013, but only around 100 made total.  It was voiced to work well with Grados and most significant distortion is out of the audio band (so I have read).  There was a nice fella there who had two of them he said he never used anymore, might contact him about buying one down the road, cool little amp.  I'm starting to think I have a knack for liking things that are rare and/or unattainable.


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> Excellent all thanks for explaining that. If you say SET sounds better that's the way I'll have it! It's primarily a headphone amp and I'll see later about the speakers. And I don't want to waste too much energy and push the tubes harder than needed.
> The above just came up due to @mordy 's suggestion for the Elac Debut 6 v2 speakers which are not too efficient but maybe I'll see if it will be driven loudly enough for a small room. If not they're not too costly anyway, and some output tubes will drive it better than others.



A Canadian company "PSB" makes some nice efficient Bookshelf speakers that would work great in a near field setup:

https://www.psbspeakers.com/product-category/speakers/bookshelf/


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I have caught rattlesnakes with my bare hands. My ultimate bucketlist adventure is to swim with Great Whites. So majestic!
> However theres not enough cash in the world that one could offer me to jump out of a perfectly working airplane. Not a chance in hell. No way. Un-uh.



ha ha....me neither...hell no!


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 6, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Set means single ended triode I feel this sounds best. One signal goes through the amp not split into opposites and put back together.
> Push pull has a phase inverter making two opposite signals (balanced) to two output tubes then is put back together in the output transformer.
> With KT88 or 6550 tubes this can put out 100 watts. But I still think SET sounds better but people will argue the point.



Yeah, set vs push/pull discussion will usually cause people to disagree.

In my opinion people get to crazy and go way over board for power in a headphone amp.
I can see it if you need the extra watts for speakers.....for headphones not so much..maybe more for certain headphones....but some wattage is just ridiculous.

Personally, I just want a SET amp with nice Lundahl's that can use EL34/KT66/EL37/KT63/KT77 ect.  with a switch to switch cathode resistors for bias.
Not powering speakers on my end Glenn. I want headphone amp only.
This is just my opinion, but so far from what I have heard of the pentode power tubes..they all are pretty much a step above some of my favorite power tubes in my OTL.....my gear my ears, my music and I admit
I do not listen to a bunch of fast music....Blues/Classic Rock.  YMMV


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> That's what I've heard, I probably should have given them a listen for future reference, but there was a metric ton of gear.  Oddly enough, one of the biggest surprises for me was a discontinued amp called the Grommes PHI-26.  Head-amp/pre-amp, can run efficient speakers, triode/pentode switch, 6 watts out in pentode mode, 2 watts in triode.  Apparently it was pretty highly regarded in the late 2000s, another short run of them was done around 2013, but only around 100 made total.  It was voiced to work well with Grados and most significant distortion is out of the audio band (so I have read).  There was a nice fella there who had two of them he said he never used anymore, might contact him about buying one down the road, cool little amp.  I'm starting to think I have a knack for liking things that are rare and/or unattainable.



Grommes is a old time American company usually making PA amplifiers for industrial applications. They are still in business making amps.
It looks like they are back making Hi Fi amps.
http://grommeshifi.com/products/260a/260a.htm


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, set vs push/pull discussion will usually cause people to disagree.
> 
> In my opinion people get to crazy and go way over board for power in a headphone amp.
> I can see it if you need the extra watts for speakers.....for headphones not so much..maybe more for certain headphones....but some wattage is just ridiculous.
> ...



Agree about wattage in a HP amp.  If you want to power speakers, do like Mordy, and use the HP amp as a 'tube buffer', amplify the results with SS to power speakers.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Grommes is a old time American company usually making PA amplifiers for industrial applications. They are still in business making amps.
> It looks like they are back making Hi Fi amps.
> http://grommeshifi.com/products/260a/260a.htm



Very cool, I think this PHI-26 is the only time they ever designed a headphone amp.  I had asked if it was vintage, certainly has that look.  I guess the profit margins were very small, so they discontinued it.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, set vs push/pull discussion will usually cause people to disagree.
> 
> In my opinion people get to crazy and go way over board for power in a headphone amp.
> I can see it if you need the extra watts for speakers.....for headphones not so much..maybe more for certain headphones....but some wattage is just ridiculous.
> ...


So, Joe, what's your goal? Try to drive a pair of difficult to drive headphone or just more tube rolling? What you want to improve? Just curious because you already have  lot of amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, set vs push/pull discussion will usually cause people to disagree.
> 
> In my opinion people get to crazy and go way over board for power in a headphone amp.
> I can see it if you need the extra watts for speakers.....for headphones not so much..maybe more for certain headphones....but some wattage is just ridiculous.
> ...



A SET will do fast music especially with headphones.  Going more then 5 watts is really not necessary even for the most demanding headphones.
With EL34s you will have more then enough power and running them at 250 volts they will last forever.


----------



## audiofest2018

2359glenn said:


> A SET will do fast music especially with headphones.  Going more then 5 watts is really not necessary even for the most demanding headphones.
> With EL34s you will have more then enough power and running them at 250 volts they will last forever.


@2359glenn Can you have SET design in your GOTL amp?  Curious about this as I am debating about whether I should have my GOTL order in this setup?


----------



## whirlwind

attmci said:


> So, Joe, what's your goal? Try to drive a pair of difficult to drive headphone or just more tube rolling? What you want to improve? Just curious because you already have  lot of amps.




Basically I prefer the sound of the SET amp to the sound of the OTL amp, regardless of what tubes I use in the OTL.
The SET amp also powers planars much better IMO. It is a better all around amp for both palnars and high impedance, IMO.
Glenn can make the amp to run the power tubes at the proper bias with cathode resistors and tap the transformer to 3.5 ohms.

It will run the power tubes to more of their ability like he does with the EL3N amp and those tubes. 
It will have octal yamamoto sockets so I will have no need for adapters as I really don't like to use them, eventually I always seem to have issues.
I will be able to use the driver tubes that I use in the OTL amp, a nice option.
It will also use other driver tubes once I decide for sure what I want those to be.

I just love the sound of these pentode power tubes...I guess they just do it for me.
I will probably eventually sell my OTL and power tubes and keep the driver tubes for use in the SET amp and use the money from selling the OTL power tubes to buy more pentodes.

I think it will be my best amp once Glenn does his magic....thanks to @leftside for getting me interested in these tubes and @2359glenn for making it all happen.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 6, 2019)

Maybe next year some more Glenn thread regulars can make it to ZMFestivus III.  Maybe there could be a Glenn booth  although that might expand the queue to a decade or more.  I had someone at the event pitching to me how you could expand your operation Glenn, or sell your schematics lol, then we could pay Apex Teton prices.

I brought so many tubes with me, but now understand the rest of the world is not as addicted to tubes as I am, a sad realization.  I did roll in a more exotic set for when I was trying the VC, had a 7802/6BX7 output with MOV L63 input.  The 7802 matches what the VC does perfectly: fast, aggressive, slightly bright, I almost felt like it was too much of a good thing to be honest.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> A SET will do fast music especially with headphones.  Going more then 5 watts is really not necessary even for the most demanding headphones.
> With EL34s you will have more then enough power and running them at 250 volts they will last forever.



I agree and with tapping the transformer to 3.5 ohms....I will probably get close to that 5 watts ?


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 6, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Maybe next year some more Glenn thread regulars can make it to ZMFestivus III.  Maybe there could be a Glenn booth  although that might expand the queue to a decade or more.  I had someone at the event pitching to me how you could expand your operation Glenn, or sell your schematics lol, then we could pay Apex Teton prices.
> 
> I brought so many tubes with me, but now understand the rest of the world is not as addicted to tubes as I am, a sad realization.  I did roll in a more exotic set for when I was trying the VC, had a 7802/6BX7 output with MOV L63 input.  The 7802 matches what the VC does perfectly: fast, aggressive, slightly bright, I almost felt like it was too much of a good thing to be honest.




I really want to make it to one.
My wife and I would love to stay in Chicago for a few days and visit Buddy Guy's Legends and enjoy some of the great pizza and food that we always hear about.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> I really want to make it to one.
> My wife and I would love to stay in Chicago for a few days and visit Buddy guys legends and enjoy some of the great pizza and food that we always hear about.



That would be a great trip, of the three biggest US cities, Chicago is my favorite, maybe it is my midwestern blood (although I am from upstate NY originally).

Another ZMFestivus anecdote: I had one fella listen to my GOTL for a long time, probably over a half hour straight.  He told me he wasn't really a tube guy, but thought the GOTL was one of the best 1-2 tube amps he had ever heard.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> That would be a great trip, of the three biggest US cities, Chicago is my favorite, maybe it is my midwestern blood (although I am from upstate NY originally).
> 
> Another ZMFestivus anecdote: I had one fella listen to my GOTL for a long time, probably over a half hour straight.  He told me he wasn't really a tube guy, but thought the GOTL was one of the best 1-2 tube amps he had ever heard.





It is definitely on our bucket list.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I agree and with tapping the transformer to 3.5 ohms....I will probably get close to that 5 watts ?



With a EL34 closer to 10 watts


----------



## JazzVinyl

RIP:  Ginger Baker at 80 years of age.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> With a EL34 closer to 10 watts



Oh wow....more than I anticipated.

If I can have a charming effect on my  wife, like you and Starvo's charming effect...maybe I can talk her into allowing me to move my EL3N amp upstairs at bedside.
If I could pull this off, I would officially declare myself "King Of The House" after 35 years of trying


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Basically I prefer the sound of the SET amp to the sound of the OTL amp, regardless of what tubes I use in the OTL.
> The SET amp also powers planars much better IMO. It is a better all around amp for both palnars and high impedance, IMO.
> Glenn can make the amp to run the power tubes at the proper bias with cathode resistors and tap the transformer to 3.5 ohms.
> 
> ...



I have followed you closely Joe, and this is the *first* time you have said you liked the GEL3N amp better than the GOTL!!

Previously you have always said they were equals (hard to drive planar HP's excluded).


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Oh wow....more than I anticipated.
> 
> If I can have a charming effect on my  wife, like you and Starvo's charming effect...maybe I can talk her into allowing me to move my EL3N amp upstairs at bedside.
> If I could pull this off, I would officially declare myself "King Of The House" after 35 years of trying



Good Luck


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 6, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> I have followed you closely Joe, and this is the *first* time you have said you liked the GEL3N amp better than the GOTL!!
> 
> Previously you have always said they were equals (hard to drive planar HP's excluded).




Well, that is a very hard thing to say, to be honest. For the most part I do not like to call anything better that is subjective.
What is better to me may not be better to you and vise versa.
I do not believe there is a best tube, but I know what I like best.

So for me.  If you, or my wife held a gun to my head and said pick one...I would pick the EL3N amp.
I like it better, but this in no way shape or form means that it is the better amp....far from it.

I could live happily ever after with the OTL amp, even in its basic form and using cheap tubes if all I wanted to listen to was high impedance headphones.
I like the way the EL3N amps drives higher impedance better than the OTL drives lower impedance, and that is not a knock on the OTL by any means as it drives low impedance cans very, very well.
The 6336 tubes give the current for that....but personally I like the tone better of 5998 and they do a great job of driving them also....just don't sound like the GEL3N driving them to my ears.

I am not what I would call a great A/B guy either. I don't have a few songs that I listen to and they say I like this better....I am more of a listen to it for a good long while with lots of music and different headphones.
Finally it is like....what am I gravitating to .  When I listen to music I like to just get into the music and not feel like I am disecting  sound.
I am more of a head bobber foot tapper type of guy and if something sounds musical...I like it.
Very few tubes that I dislike  

In my opinion the EL3N tubes in the power position in the GEL3N amp are as good as any power tube I use in my OTL amp and the price is very nice.....Again YMMV

It is just a preference thing and nothing more.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Good Luck



Thanks, I will need it.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> ha ha....me neither...hell no!



I survived... pull out last minute because I wasn't feeling good. Spend the late afternoon bowling with the family and an Italian dinner instead. Will be journeying back to Canberra in the morning, armed with my power cords, RCA cables and on the way pick up the power conditioner. As much as I enjoyed the time with the family, I'm starting to miss my head-fi setup just after 2 days.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Well, that is a very hard thing to say, to be honest. For the most part I do not like to call anything better that is subjective.
> What is better to me may not be better to you and vise versa.
> I do not believe there is a best tube, but I know what I like best.
> 
> ...



A good honest writeup Joe. For a month now, I've been trying to determine which of the 2 amps I like more - Studio Six (SET) or GOTL (OTL). After a month I gave up. I still can't pick a favourite. I try to put aside looks, quality of construction and go with just strictly SQ or pure musical enjoyment with just Verite. If I have to pick musical enjoyment based on a nuanced, refined and polish performance with impact and dynamics, then it's Studio Six. If I had to pick musical enjoyment based on pure raw emotional impact, sweetness of tone then it's GOTL. Now both appeal to me a lot. So rather than try to find a favourite, I just pick an amp to power on and start my listening session.

Both exhibit a fast and dynamic tempo. Bass is dished out in ample quantity and quality. Treble is extended and without sounding harsh. Mids is one area I felt GOTL has the upper hand - slightly. Both are accomplished performers in the whole musical spectrum. With a headphone of Verite capability, both amps are literally end game stuff. For me at least. 

Now to wait for what Berlin can do....


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> With a EL34 closer to 10 watts



That's what you told me EL12 spez will produce. Guess as EL12 spez is an early predecessor of EL34, it's no surprise.


----------



## UntilThen

3am on a Monday morning. We adjust our clocks today and lose an hour as the clock is taken back one hour. With just Sennheiser Momentum plug into a Bose Companion 5, it's a bad case of withdrawal. How I miss my Head-Fi station.  This is bad.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I survived... pull out last minute because I wasn't feeling good. Spend the late afternoon bowling with the family and an Italian dinner instead. Will be journeying back to Canberra in the morning, armed with my power cords, RCA cables and on the way pick up the power conditioner. As much as I enjoyed the time with the family, I'm starting to miss my head-fi setup just after 2 days.




Sorry to hear you could not get this done...maybe at a later date.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> This is just my opinion, but so far from what I have heard of the pentode power tubes..they all are pretty much a step above some of my favorite power tubes in my OTL.....my gear my ears, my music and I admit



Even in the early days of Elise and Euforia ( amps that are not build to run pentodes), I prefer pentodes (as strapped triodes) over all my gorgeous OTL power tubes, including the GEC 6as7g. Likewise a pair of EL11 as strapped triodes in the drivers seat is much preferred than any 6sn7 or equivalent. Surprise ? Not at all. That's how I hear it and I don't think I'm the only one. @hypnos1 will agree with me. After all, he was the one that started the craze to popularise pentodes usage. I have been trying to get Lukasz of Felik Audio to get on board producing an amp using EL3N even before a GEL3N is produced but somehow my suggestion just ain't good enough. 

I'm glad that Glenn saw the merit of producing a SET EL3N amp. It's not just the schematics. Glenn's voicing of the amps is just that special and it's the deal breaker for me.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Sorry to hear you could not get this done...maybe at a later date.



Not that sorry or in a hurry to get that bucket list crossed off because I discovered there was a death in 2017. Both instructor and student in a tandem dive, plunged to their deaths when the 1st parachute failed to deployed and the backup parachute failed to deployed too. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-16/skydivers-final-moments-captured-on-camera/8712748

Guess it's safer to play with tube amps. At most, it will only blow up haha.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> 3am on a Monday morning. We adjust our clocks today and lose an hour as the clock is taken back one hour. With just Sennheiser Momentum plug into a Bose Companion 5, it's a bad case of withdrawal. How I miss my Head-Fi station.  This is bad.



It won't be long before we put our clocks back to normal time.  Get off work and it is dark but gain a hour of sleep.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> It won't be long before we put our clocks back to normal time.  Get off work and it is dark but gain a hour of sleep.



Daylight savings hours difference drives me nuts. We're 2 to 3 hours ahead of Singapore, depending on whether daylight savings is on.


----------



## UntilThen

WTFish I miss this !!! AUD$450 for a mint pair of GEC 6as7g with curved brown base. This forum has too many goodies. Much as I prefer pentodes now, a mint pair of GEC 6as7g for a cheap price would still have been nice !!!

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/to...ir-near-nos-round-or-curved-brown-base-tubes/


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> RIP:  Ginger Baker at 80 years of age.


 Wow,bummer! Great drummer.
Watched an excellent doco last night. for anyone who is into classic rock,this is a must watch. Very well done,and lots of excellent music. My old stomping grounds!
The entire area is shown including the Canyon Market,AKA as the "Store where the creatures meet" from the Doors "Love Street" which is a take on Amore Street,where Jim used to live in the Canyon.


----------



## Monsterzero

@gibosi or anyone else,how does the GZ33 sound compared to the GZ32 &GZ34?


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Well, that is a very hard thing to say, to be honest. For the most part I do not like to call anything better that is subjective.
> What is better to me may not be better to you and vise versa.
> I do not believe there is a best tube, but I know what I like best.
> 
> ...



Interesting, Joe!

With my 6 power socket GOTL, I have the opposite problem - too much gain!  Have to turn the input way down to keep from driving 300 ohm cans into distortion.  

5998 as powers, the input can be turned back up and the power level is perfect for high impedance cans.

But definitely hear ya on 'subjective as well.    Each to their own sonic perfection.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Wow,bummer! Great drummer.
> Watched an excellent doco last night. for anyone who is into classic rock,this is a must watch. Very well done,and lots of excellent music. My old stomping grounds!
> The entire area is shown including the Canyon Market,AKA as the "Store where the creatures meet" from the Doors "Love Street" which is a take on Amore Street,where Jim used to live in the Canyon.




There is an excellent documentary on Ginger too.  My wife and I watched it maybe a year ago.  Towards the end, Ginger gets upset with the documentary maker...has a big blow out and forbids any use of the footage.  Then in the credits, it is noted that Mr Baker changed his mind after all was done, and decided to allow the footage, including the footage where he gets REALLY upset.

He was a great drummer!  

I own this rather recent CD - it's better than you would think it would be, for a 'skins beater' of his age:  

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Ginger-Baker/dp/B00KE7PBH6


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> @gibosi or anyone else,how does the GZ33 sound compared to the GZ32 &GZ34?



I haven't rolled the GZ33 in a long time. Will try to find time soon. However, while I do have the Mullard GZ32, GZ33 and skinny GZ37, I don't have the Mullard GZ34.


----------



## attmci (Oct 6, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Maybe next year some more Glenn thread regulars can make it to ZMFestivus III.  Maybe there could be a Glenn booth  although that might expand the queue to a decade or more.  I had someone at the event pitching to me how you could expand your operation Glenn, or sell your schematics lol, then we could pay Apex Teton prices.
> 
> I brought so many tubes with me, but now understand the rest of the world is not as addicted to tubes as I am, a sad realization.  I did roll in a more exotic set for when I was trying the VC, had a 7802/6BX7 output with MOV L63 input.  The 7802 matches what the VC does perfectly: fast, aggressive, slightly bright, I almost felt like it was too much of a good thing to be honest.


You may want to slow down a little bit here. Otherwise, you million dollar equipment will soon worth more than your house. LOL

The ugliest/most uncomfortable headphone you had tried recently is a power hungry animal.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> I haven't rolled the GZ33 in a long time. Will try to find time soon. However, while I do have the Mullard GZ32, GZ33 and skinny GZ37, I don't have the Mullard GZ34.


You guys made me confused of these GZxx tubes. LOL


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Maybe next year some more Glenn thread regulars can make it to ZMFestivus III.  Maybe there could be a Glenn booth  although that might expand the queue to a decade or more.  I had someone at the event pitching to me how you could expand your operation Glenn, or sell your schematics lol, then we could pay Apex Teton prices.
> 
> I brought so many tubes with me, but now understand the rest of the world is not as addicted to tubes as I am, a sad realization.  I did roll in a more exotic set for when I was trying the VC, had a 7802/6BX7 output with MOV L63 input.  The 7802 matches what the VC does perfectly: fast, aggressive, slightly bright, I almost felt like it was too much of a good thing to be honest.


 In the twenty minutes I had with your 7802s+VC I agree that theyre fast and with some brightness,however the slam couldnt keep up with a sextet of 6bx7s. Otherwise the presentation between the two is similar. Mix in the Ken Rad VT231 and the bass slams with very strong authority,and this is with the most neutral pads in place, Auteur non perf.
The GEC U18/20 adds in some creaminess to the mids,without adding in any bass fat. Its a fantastic roll with the VC.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> In the twenty minutes I had with your 7802s+VC I agree that theyre fast and with some brightness,however the slam couldnt keep up with a sextet of 6bx7s. Otherwise the presentation between the two is similar. Mix in the Ken Rad VT231 and the bass slams with very strong authority,and this is with the most neutral pads in place, Auteur non perf.
> The GEC U18/20 adds in some creaminess to the mids,without adding in any bass fat. Its a fantastic roll with the VC.



I think your right D, a pair of 7802 does lose some authority compared to the six 6BX7.  A quad of 7802 or a pair with four 6BX7 slams really nicely.  They mix really well since they have almost the same gain.  The Toshibas are a little bright leaning too, so I think four of those with the 7802 wasn't so great with the VC, a warmer 6BX7 would be better to balance, like Fivre or RCA.  I'll try the KR VT-231 and some 6BX7 when I get the VC!  But it will be a few months.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> You may want to slow down a little bit here. Otherwise, you million dollar equipment will soon worth more than your house. LOL
> 
> The ugliest/most uncomfortable headphone you had tried recently is a power hungry animal.



The Hugo TT2 they were connected to sounded to me like it was struggling to drive them, thought I heard some low end distortions as I turned the volume up.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Happy Sunday...

Get your Funk on, yall:


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 6, 2019)

Meanwhile things are heating up fast on the Euforia thread, with 7581A as the latest and greatest, but this does seem quite legit. I'll be adding those to my collection for the future Glenn amp (with adapters)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/page-456

PS - these tubes are actually plentiful and seem to be still in manufacture.


----------



## leftside

DecentLevi said:


> Meanwhile things are heating up fast on the Euforia thread, with 7581A as the latest and greatest, but this does seem quite legit. I'll be adding those to my collection for the future Glenn amp (with adapters)
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/page-456
> 
> PS - these tubes are actually plentiful and seem to be still in manufacture.


I'm not sure how a 7581a can sound good in a circuit designed for a 6AS7, but I'm not familiar with this amp. I do know for sure though that if this amp can take a 7581a, then it can also take a 6L6, which means it can also take a few other tubes...  I predict there are going to be a few new "best ever tubes" posts coming up on the Euforia thread.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussi...-with-the-tung-sol-7581a-vs-el34-kt66-kt88-6l


----------



## mordy

Can anybody identify who made the left tube in this picture? I can't even make out the name of this rebranded tube - Tr -something-ron.





Just got this lot of odds and ends mostly 50's EL11 tubes from Germany. From right to left: Two TFK, two Tungsram and the unknown one.
I can only see the top mica and the fins on top - they don't match any of the EL11 tubes I have (TFK, RFT, Valvo, Philips, Loewe-Opta).


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I'm not sure how a 7581a can sound good in a circuit designed for a 6AS7, but I'm not familiar with this amp. I do know for sure though that if this amp can take a 7581a, then it can also take a 6L6, which means it can also take a few other tubes...  I predict there are going to be a few new "best ever tubes" posts coming up on the Euforia thread.
> https://forum.audiogon.com/discussi...-with-the-tung-sol-7581a-vs-el34-kt66-kt88-6l



In my opinion Euforia owners should get the Elekit TS-8200 amp for rolling those tubes or at least persuade FA to make an amp for that purpose.

I ain't complaining about their experimentations though because Hypnos1 did bring attention to these tubes on Head-Fi. That's commendable.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Can anybody identify who made the left tube in this picture? I can't even make out the name of this rebranded tube - Tr -something-ron.



Mordy, the brand is Triotron, I posted a picture of a NOS pair Triotron EL11 only recently and you commented on it. I also have a pair of NOS Tungsram EL11 that is shown as the 2nd left tube on your picture. The Tungsram EL11 did sound warmer and with less treble extension compared to Telefunken EL11.


----------



## mordy

Re the new Euforia wunder tube - the Tung Sol reissue 7581A, it is a beam power tube rated at 0.9A with a multiplication factor of 8.7. In what way, if any, could it be used in the GOTL?
As a driver? Two as drivers? 
Power tubes? How many would you need?


----------



## UntilThen

Don't see why you want to use 7581A in GOTL. It's not like you don't have enough choices already in GOTL. As a pentode, you will need 2 in a power socket in GOTL like what I did when experimenting with EL12 in GOTL. That's over kill and those $50 adapter shrill like a banshee at times. I think it's just butchering GOTL.

As drivers in GOTL .... in the c3g slots I don't know. Again with so many choices already why would you. Just get Glenn to make a custom amp for it.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, the brand is Triotron, I posted a picture of a NOS pair Triotron EL11 only recently and you commented on it. I also have a pair of NOS Tungsram EL11 that is shown as the 2nd left tube on your picture. The Tungsram EL11 did sound warmer and with less treble extension compared to Telefunken EL11.


Hi UT,
Thanks - forgot that I saw your tubes. What threw me off was the unclear name - Trinitron by Sony comes to mind lol....
A quick research confirmed to me that Triotron is a Philips rebrand. Ebay has a Triotron catalog from 1954 for sale, and it was printed in Holland  - that's my proof!


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> Meanwhile things are heating up fast on the Euforia thread, with 7581A as the latest and greatest, but this does seem quite legit. I'll be adding those to my collection for the future Glenn amp (with adapters)
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/page-456
> 
> PS - these tubes are actually plentiful and seem to be still in manufacture.



Hello DL..

Since you have the ability to run 6x 6BX/BL7's in your FA amp...what we wanna know is your thoughts between running 
6x 6BX/BL7 vs the new wonder tube: 7581A.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Don't see why you want to use 7581A in GOTL. It's not like you don't have enough choices already in GOTL. As a pentode, you will need 2 in a power socket in GOTL like what I did when experimenting with EL12 in GOTL. That's over kill and those $50 adapter shrill like a banshee at times. I think it's just butchering GOTL.
> 
> As drivers in GOTL .... in the c3g slots I don't know. Again with so many choices already why would you. Just get Glenn to make a custom amp for it.


Hi UT,
_Just get Glenn to make a custom amp for it._
No way! I love the GOTL and don't need anything else (at least for the foreseeable future.)


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> _Just get Glenn to make a custom amp for it._
> No way! I love the GOTL and don't need anything else (at least for the foreseeable future.)



I'm not saying you 'need' to get Glenn to make a custom amp for it but if you're intent on rolling lots of pentodes then it makes sense to get Glenn to make a custom amp. I hope that's clear.


----------



## UntilThen

Glenn OTL amp is in my opinion (after listening to lots of amps both ss and tube amps) an amp that could be your centre piece in a high end headphone system. The beauty of it is in the use of sextet 6BX7 or 6BL7. That is the signature tone in my Glenn Super 9 OTL amp and is the reason I won't give up this amp.

This review is written a long time ago by someone who obviously love his music and gear. Here his preference is in using 6 x 6BL7 with Tung Sol 6sn7w. http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/s...nce-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier

Someday as I have always said, I'll sit down and do a written review of my GOTL and have it put on Head-Fi.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> _N_o way! I love the GOTL and don't need anything else (at least for the foreseeable future.)



I am super delighted with my GOTL as well.

2x 12J5 
2x EL32
6x 6BX7's...

Can't imagine it sounding better...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Glenn OTL amp is in my opinion (after listening to lots of amps both ss and tube amps) an amp that could be your centre piece in a high end headphone system. The beauty of it is in the use of sextet 6BX7 or 6BL7. That is the signature tone in my Glenn Super 9 OTL amp and is the reason I won't give up this amp.
> 
> This review is written a long time ago by someone who obviously love his music and gear. Here his preference is in using 6 x 6BL7 with Tung Sol 6sn7w. http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/s...nce-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier
> 
> Someday as I have always said, I'll sit down and do a written review of my GOTL and have it put on Head-Fi.



That matching silver knob in the Tweak-Fi review looks quite nice I think!  Maybe I will follow @JazzVinyl 's advice and only roll knobs from now on.

After I install my Goldpoint, of course.


----------



## Monsterzero

@L0rdGwyn might these be similar to what you have? Im bidding on them regardless,but just got outbid. Wondering whats a fair price?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133190532589?ul_noapp=true


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> That matching silver knob in the Tweak-Fi review looks quite nice I think!  Maybe I will follow @JazzVinyl 's advice and only roll knobs from now on.
> 
> After I install my Goldpoint, of course.



Funny, I read that review long ago and it really made me want a GOTL...but I had bought the Feliks Audio Elise...
Had the nice lady in China custom make me a 6x power socket adapter for the Elise and Glenn stepped in, and suggested a reasonably priced 20 amp 6,3 volt transformer to run the 6x 6BX/BL7's with...

And whammo, I knew right then what I had been missing!

I believe it was you @L0rdGwyn who suggested the dual 6J5 adapter for the GOTL and indeed, that and the EL32's adapted to the C3g sockets and I am here to tell ya...Knob rollin' is all you will ever need to do!

I am absolutely amazed each time I listen to the GOTL.  I wish we all lived close together and could assemble all the amps and HP's and hear it all  

BTW, I sold the FA 6x 6BX/BL setup I used to @DecentLevi and hope he answers when I asked him to compare the 6x BX/BL to the latest "wonder tube" in the FA amps...I think it would be interesting to hear that comparison.

Cheers and great tunes!

And...THANK YOU, GLENN!!!!

Glenn for President!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> @L0rdGwyn might these be similar to what you have? Im bidding on them regardless,but just got outbid. Wondering whats a fair price?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/133190532589?ul_noapp=true



12J5's are cheaper and work in the dual 6J5 adapter, just up your voltage to 12...

Also..only bid last 15 seconds of an auction, otherwise your just running up the price!


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> 12J5's are cheaper and work in the dual 6J5 adapter, just up your voltage to 12...
> 
> Also..only bid last 15 seconds of an auction, otherwise your just running up the price!


Yeah. I only put in an initial low ball offer to get the emails flowing. This one will end when im awake. Last week I lost a bid on two Marconi U52s by 23 cents!!!! Ended at 7am. I dont care if a 25 year old Raquel Welch is offering free lap dances in my mancave,theres no way im up at 7am...OK,I might make an exception for Raquel.


----------



## JazzVinyl

A night owl!!!

I would definitely make an exception 

And there is an app,  to bid last second for ya


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> After I install my Goldpoint, of course.



The Gold Point 47 steps attenuator on my GOTL at $300 more is one of the options I’ve not regretted getting. Not because it’s more expensive but it’s the feel and soft clicks that just makes turning it an enjoyable exercise.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 6, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> @L0rdGwyn might these be similar to what you have? Im bidding on them regardless,but just got outbid. Wondering whats a fair price?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/133190532589?ul_noapp=true



Hey D - I wouldn't go for that pair since it looks like the tubes are not an exact match, the one on the left has a ribbed plate while the one on the right has a smooth plate.  The internals of the one on the right are exactly the same as mine from what I can see.  I can't say whether or not there is a sound difference between the ribbed and smooth plates.

Here are the ones I have, I paid around $60 for the pair, all sold now: https://www.ebay.com/itm/6J5GT-JAN-CHS-SYLVANIA-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC70/264424371406?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Looks like they can go for anywhere from $10-60 a pair.  I paid the premium for mine since they are military and resemble the 6SN7W metal base, but I would imagine as long as the internal construction is the same, they will sound the same.  If you want to wait, the ones with the metal base and green print pop up fairly often.

There is also this listing, hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like they may have ribbed plates: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-Sylvania-6J5GT-Tubes-USA-METAL-BASE-SAME-CODE/293129838424?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=40719&meid=7e6cdcbb4c2c4dedab057c71fd58095d&pid=100290&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=293129838424&itm=293129838424&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2060778&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507

If you wanted to try the 12J5s, there is this listing, super cheap $25 a pair with free shipping, plates are slightly different than mine, circular holes rather than rectangular.  Again, no idea if there is a sound difference since I've only heard the ones I have, but I am sure they are all great tubes: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Ma...640029?hash=item2617e4fc5d:g:eEUAAOSwS3NclGRt


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> I believe it was you @L0rdGwyn who suggested the dual 6J5 adapter for the GOTL and indeed, that and the EL32's adapted to the C3g sockets and I am here to tell ya...Knob rollin' is all you will ever need to do!



It was @2359glenn and @leftside who got me interested in these tubes, so I cannot take credit for anyone else who has success with them.  I am simply a hype-man who has stood on the shoulders of giants 



UntilThen said:


> The Gold Point 47 steps attenuator on my GOTL at $300 more is one of the options I’ve not regretted getting. Not because it’s more expensive but it’s the feel and soft clicks that just makes turning it an enjoyable exercise.



I experienced these soft clicks on the 300B, which reminded me I was going to upgrade, just have to find the time to break out the ol' soldering iron.  I am a bit exhausted after restoring my tube tester.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> it’s the feel and soft clicks that just makes turning it an enjoyable exercise.



That is enjoyable, but not as much as the feel of that power button.  Maybe it's because when you turn it on, you know you're in for an intense musical experience.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> A night owl!!!
> 
> I would definitely make an exception
> 
> And there is an app,  to bid last second for ya


 You know,I have that app on my phone and I totally forgot about. Thanks for the reminder.



L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey D - I wouldn't go for that pair since it looks like the tubes are not an exact match, the one on the left has a ribbed plate while the one on the right has a smooth plate.  The internals of the one on the right are exactly the same as mine from what I can see.  I can't say whether or not there is a sound difference between the ribbed and smooth plates.
> 
> Here are the ones I have, I paid around $60 for the pair, all sold now: https://www.ebay.com/itm/6J5GT-JAN-CHS-SYLVANIA-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC70/264424371406?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the good eyes. I hadnt noticed they were of different construction. I will let it slide on by then. I might try to grab a pair of Ken Rads,since im loving the VT231 so much with the VC.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> That is enjoyable, but not as much as the feel of that power button.  Maybe it's because when you turn it on, you know you're in for an intense musical experience.



The soft feel power button is Glenn’s amp initiative. Never seen it on other amps. So is the chassis.

For Berlin, I’m thinking powder coated navy blue or vintage gold. Together with the grey Telefunken tubes, it will befitting her Majesty tube amp collections.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks for the good eyes. I hadnt noticed they were of different construction. I will let it slide on by then. I might try to grab a pair of Ken Rads,since im loving the VT231 so much with the VC.



If you want a NOS Ken Rad 6sn7gt, I’m willing to sell mine at a reasonable price for someone who loves me.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> If you want a NOS Ken Rad 6sn7gt, I’m willing to sell mine at a reasonable price for someone who loves me.


I literally just bought a trio of them for 27 bucks. @L0rdGwyn might be interested though


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I literally just bought a trio of them for 27 bucks. @L0rdGwyn might be interested though



3 for 27 bucks and they are new and NOS?

In any case the offer’s only for you and I’m not in the business to sell tubes. Too much hassle for me packing and sending it.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> 3 for 27 bucks and they are new and NOS?
> 
> In any case the offer’s only for you and I’m not in the business to sell tubes. Too much hassle for me packing and sending it.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/264461990840


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/264461990840



I have very high hopes for these tubes!  Have low-key been looking for a nice pair myself, early 1940s build.  Please let us know what you think.

BTW, I believe those bases contain lead to dampen microphonics, was present on some early 1940s Raytheon and Tung-Sol tubes as well, so wash your hands lol I've rarely seen them in such good condition, usually they are very rusted/corroded.


----------



## UntilThen

You’re talking about 6j5gt. I was referring to Ken Rad 6sn7gt black glass.


----------



## DecentLevi

JazzVinyl said:


> Funny, I read that review long ago and it really made me want a GOTL...but I had bought the Feliks Audio Elise...
> Had the nice lady in China custom make me a 6x power socket adapter for the Elise and Glenn stepped in, and suggested a reasonably priced 20 amp 6,3 volt transformer to run the 6x 6BX/BL7's with...
> 
> And whammo, I knew right then what I had been missing!
> ...



Hi JV, yup I'm still enjoying your 6x tube board on the Euforia as we speak, connected to the Triad 20ah external transformer. And you say this transformer was Glenn's idea? This is absolutely uncanny that all of the exquisite performance I have been getting out of the Euforia has been thanks to @2359glenn !!! One could almost say I've already been enjoying his works, in a way. Over the past year I've had this system I have experienced world class audio reproduction unlike any single tube per socket on the Euforia, and after extensive trials (100's of combinations) have settled on a top 2-3 combos, with the current one shown below. My other two favorites are EL39 with TS 6BL7 and Bendix 6080 or EL39 with 4x EL32 as powers. These combos may sound weird but I have put them through very long extended trials and they perform with finesse and unwavering stability and 0 signs of anything untoward in the slightest. But I don't post these on the Euforia thread anymore - and why is another story that I shall not revisit again.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 6, 2019)

@JazzVinyl in answer to your question - sorry but I'm still not sure I have any need to go the 7581A route on the Euforia, and those would require yet more adapters just in the interim until I get my next amp. I'm super satisfied with my EL39 and large inventory of other tubes. But the 7581's do seem quite intriguing so I will be later asking @Deyan to make 4x adapters to also try these on my upcoming Glenn 'El Darwin' amp. And finally I can have a properly biased amp and not rely on this makeshift setup that everybody 'over there' rails against like no tomorrow.

And here is a photo of what the 7581A looks like


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> You’re talking about 6j5gt. I was referring to Ken Rad 6sn7gt black glass.


Oh...Yeah,I already have KR VT231 w/ staggered plates. Everyone here keeps saying how the 6j5s sound better so I figured I'd see what the fuss is all about,and you will want to hold onto that KR. Its killer with the VC.


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> Hi JV, yup I'm still enjoying your 6x tube board on the Euforia as we speak, connected to the Triad 20ah external transformer. And you say this transformer was Glenn's idea? This is absolutely uncanny that all of the exquisite performance I have been getting out of the Euforia has been thanks to @2359glenn !!! One could almost say I've already been enjoying his works, in a way. Over the past year I've had this system I have experienced world class audio reproduction unlike any single tube per socket on the Euforia, and after extensive trials (100's of combinations) have settled on a top 2-3 combos, with the current one shown below. My other two favorites are EL39 with TS 6BL7 and Bendix 6080 or EL39 with 4x EL32 as powers. These combos may sound weird but I have put them through very long extended trials and they perform with finesse and unwavering stability and 0 signs of anything untoward in the slightest. But I don't post these on the Euforia thread anymore - and why is another story that I shall not revisit again.



Yes, Glenn's 6 power socket GOTL inspired me to get the adapter made and he sent the link to the 20 amp 6.3 volt transformer.  
It worked perfectly for me as well.  Less heat doing this than the originally specified tube compliment for the FA amp!!

Pretty unconventional tube compliment you have there.  I really dig ECC88's too.   Didn't you also have 1975 Reflector 6N23P? 

Know what you mean about un-welcomed responses.  When I had this, they started a new thread, that had the "rule" of one tube per socket!

What a bleeding riot


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> @JazzVinyl in answer to your question - sorry but I'm still not sure I have any need to go the 7581A route on the Euforia, and those would require yet more adapters just in the interim until I get my next amp. I'm super satisfied with my EL39 and large inventory of other tubes. But the 7581's do seem quite intriguing so I will be later asking @Deyan to make 4x adapters to also try these on my upcoming Glenn 'El Darwin' amp. And finally I can have a properly biased amp and not rely on this makeshift setup that everybody 'over there' rails against like no tomorrow.
> 
> And here is a photo of what the 7581A looks like



Yes, there have been a lot of "absolute final, end of the road, gigantic, amazing discovery" power tubes over there. Probably smart to hold off and see what the next amp brings.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Oh...Yeah,I already have KR VT231 w/ staggered plates. Everyone here keeps saying how the 6j5s sound better so I figured I'd see what the fuss is all about,and you will want to hold onto that KR. Its killer with the VC.



Yes, can't wait to hear about your single triode per bottle Ken Rad adventure!


----------



## mordy (Oct 6, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Hi JV, yup I'm still enjoying your 6x tube board on the Euforia as we speak, connected to the Triad 20ah external transformer. And you say this transformer was Glenn's idea? This is absolutely uncanny that all of the exquisite performance I have been getting out of the Euforia has been thanks to @2359glenn !!! One could almost say I've already been enjoying his works, in a way. Over the past year I've had this system I have experienced world class audio reproduction unlike any single tube per socket on the Euforia, and after extensive trials (100's of combinations) have settled on a top 2-3 combos, with the current one shown below. My other two favorites are EL39 with TS 6BL7 and Bendix 6080 or EL39 with 4x EL32 as powers. These combos may sound weird but I have put them through very long extended trials and they perform with finesse and unwavering stability and 0 signs of anything untoward in the slightest. But I don't post these on the Euforia thread anymore - and why is another story that I shall not revisit again.


Hi DL,
Let me guess: GEC 6080, RCA 6080, TS 6BX7 and 6N23P?

Some people don't like to mix tubes, but I have had good results doing it. And others say that even using an external PS can be too much for the resistors in your amp, but as you state, you have used it extensively without ill effects.
The tubes in your picture draw more current than the GOTL can handle - close to 14A.
There is a story that somebody studied bumble bees and said that with such a big body in relation to such small wings it cannot fly - but it flies....


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> BTW, I believe those bases contain lead to dampen microphonics, was present on some early 1940s Raytheon and Tung-Sol tubes as well, so wash your hands


 Oh wonderful. Damn good thing my wife doesnt read this forum. I can hear her now losing her mind that I have poisoned the house.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Oh wonderful. Damn good thing my wife doesnt read this forum. I can hear her now losing her mind that I have poisoned the house.



LOL! She must be as enthusiastic about "bulbs" as my wife is


----------



## mordy

Time to make a list of the radioactive tubes - they do exist.....


----------



## mordy

Seriously, how do I spot a tube that has lead in the base? Is the mottled appearance on the metal bases from lead?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Some older Pentax 35mm film lenses are also radioactive, from a process they used back then to "coat" the lenses to reduce flare.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Seriously, how do I spot a tube that has lead in the base? Is the mottled appearance on the metal bases from lead?



Glow in the dark? Wait....


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Seriously, how do I spot a tube that has lead in the base? Is the mottled appearance on the metal bases from lead?



Try tasting it. Should be sweet if it’s full of lead


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> LOL! She must be as enthusiastic about "bulbs" as my wife is


I had a "mishap" last week where an adapter went up in smoke.I showed her the cooked adapter and charred pins on my tube. The next night she says,over her shoulder,as shes off to bed "Try not to burn down the house" 
She wasnt smiling.


----------



## lukeap69

Monsterzero said:


> I had a "mishap" last week where an adapter went up in smoke.I showed her the cooked adapter and charred pins on my tube. The next night she says,over her shoulder,as shes off to bed "Try not to burn down the house"
> She wasnt smiling.


Lovely wife. I like her sense of humour.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> I had a "mishap" last week where an adapter went up in smoke.I showed her the cooked adapter and charred pins on my tube. The next night she says,over her shoulder,as shes off to bed "Try not to burn down the house"
> She wasnt smiling.



HeHeHe...

Love it


----------



## mordy

Tried to do a little fact finding on lead in tubes. The only thing I could find was that maybe there was a little lead in the solder used for the pins in the olden days.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> Try tasting it. Should be sweet if it’s full of lead


Yes, lead acetate tastes sweet, but it is poisonous.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Yes, lead acetate tastes sweet, but it is poisonous.


Who was the first genius who thought of licking lead?
Reminds me of a great story. Way back when I used to DJ in a club with lots of hot female go-go dancers. Kristy,one of the dancers is hanging out with me and the conversation goes something like this:

Me: Have you ever tried licking your CDs?
Kristy: What?!?
Me: No seriously. You get high as screw,but you need to lick a bunch,like 100,and they have to be different ones. You cant lick the same one over and over.
Kristy: Hmmmm

So the next night she comes up to me and says:

Kristy: Were you messing with me about licking the CDs?
Me: *laughing my ass off* Yes!!!!
Kristy: You know me and my sister mustve licked over 400 CDs and we didnt feel anything

True story.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have very high hopes for these tubes! Have low-key been looking for a nice pair myself, early 1940s build. Please let us know what you think.


 Well,its gonna take until at least Halloween before my 6j5 adapter arrives.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 7, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> Let me guess: *GEC 6080, RCA 6080, TS 6BX7 and 6N23P?*
> 
> Some people don't like to mix tubes, but I have had good results doing it. And others say that even using an external PS can be too much for the resistors in your amp, but as you state, you have used it extensively without ill effects.
> ...



Yup that combo is correct, and it's the authentic Reflektor 6N23P. I could post a photo of some of my even better EL39 combos but I wouldn't want wind to drift very far across cyberspace about multi-tube setups to avoid unwanted allegations of all kinds of maleficence as I've just been able to finally come back from that drama on these forums. My honest confession with my best-of multi-tube combos I've came up with over long periods of extended trials / experiments is that I am receiving ABSOLUTE WORLD CLASS resolution in spades with staggering realism. I would never in a million years want more than what I have - that is, unless I had gone to any meets - which I have, and I do indeed admit that although this may be the upper limits of actualization with the Euforia, there is more out there and I can't wait to get a real Glenn amp along with the HEDDphone One made of emerging technology. This German giant-killer of a Heddphone hits the streets November!


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Oh...Yeah,I already have KR VT231 w/ staggered plates. Everyone here keeps saying how the 6j5s sound better so I figured I'd see what the fuss is all about,and you will want to hold onto that KR. Its killer with the VC.



I have one NOS Ken Rad 1633 black glass (25 volt version) and 2 NOS Ken Rad 6sn7gt black glass. They aren't use as much. I don't consider them in my top tier drivers. YMMV.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Oh...Yeah,I already have KR VT231 w/ staggered plates. Everyone here keeps saying how the 6j5s sound better so I figured I'd see what the fuss is all about,and you will want to hold onto that KR. Its killer with the VC.



Fwiw in my multiple testing of dual GEC L63 vs GEC B36, I did not detect any differences. Both sounded good to me. That's not surprising as the GEC B36 is in my top tier drivers group. I certainly don't hear the dual GEC L63 as having a wider soundstage or having better SQ than the GEC B36. If anything, it's let down by the adapter where one channel is noisy. As far as I can, I would stay away from adapters.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I have one NOS Ken Rad 1633 black glass (25 volt version) and 2 NOS Ken Rad 6sn7gt black glass. They aren't use as much. I don't consider them in my top tier drivers. YMMV.


 I didnt like it much either until the VC.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I didnt like it much either until the VC.



I doubt my impression will change with VC. I much prefer Tung Sol 6sn7 bgrp in all it's variations than Ken Rad 6sn7gt black glass. However this being subjective, anyone can have their preference.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I doubt my impression will change with VC. I much prefer Tung Sol 6sn7 bgrp in all it's variations than Ken Rad 6sn7gt black glass. However this being subjective, anyone can have their preference.


 The BGRP is my fav driver ever,and my go to for the VO,but in my system it adds a touch of fat in the bass to the VC. The KR slams harder and no fat. I get the mids from the GEC rectifier.


----------



## UntilThen

There's been a fair bit of talk about power conditioners, power cords and rca interconnects. Well I have all these stuff now. They are only moderately expensive. Not what an audiophile would classify as high end cables but I don't believe in splashing lots on cables anyway.

This lot here amounts to just under AUD$700, most of them bought nearly new from keen audio enthusiasts in the local forum classifieds.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> The BGRP is my fav driver ever,and my go to for the VO,but in my system it adds a touch of fat in the bass to the VC. The KR slams harder and no fat. I get the mids from the GEC rectifier.



This is where we hear differently. Ken Rad 6sn7gt black glass has the most pronounced bass (fat and pronounced) of most 6sn7, including the Tung Sol 6sn7gt bgrp. A check with the 6sn7 Reference thread will also show the seasoned reviewers having the same opinions.


----------



## Monsterzero

Yeah,but remember I have three other tubes in my chain as well. What tube combos sounded good out of my Vinshine R2R doesnt necessarily sound good with the Lampi. The Lampi and VC have given my 6Bx7s new life for sure,whereas with the Vinshine they werent all that great.

My ears/gears and all that jazz.


----------



## UntilThen

Back to the cables .... 

Hooked it all up. Did it make a difference? 

Sure looks pretty and it looks the business now.


----------



## DecentLevi

UntilThen said:


> Fwiw in my multiple testing of dual GEC L63 vs GEC B36, I did not detect any differences. Both sounded good to me. That's not surprising as the GEC B36 is in my top tier drivers group. I certainly don't hear the dual GEC L63 as having a wider soundstage or having better SQ than the GEC B36. If anything, it's let down by the adapter where one channel is noisy. As far as I can, I would stay away from adapters.



Are either of these the one you're referring to? GEC L63 (6J5 / CV1067) brown base sraight shape? Or was the ST / curved version better? There's a lot of these in stock! 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/L63-CV1067...785746?hash=item48a5d41812:g:BK8AAOSwH7ZdeoEt
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CV1067-L63...216719?hash=item56b9ca178f:g:ZAYAAOSwRCNaumja


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Are either of these the one you're referring to? GEC L63 (6J5 / CV1067) brown base sraight shape? Or was the ST / curved version better? There's a lot of these in stock!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/L63-CV1067...785746?hash=item48a5d41812:g:BK8AAOSwH7ZdeoEt
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/CV1067-L63...216719?hash=item56b9ca178f:g:ZAYAAOSwRCNaumja



DL, that first one from Langrex is what I have. Yes lots in stock and worth grabbing a pair or two if you're going to use them as drivers in your new amp. 

I don't know if the ST version sounded better. Certainly more expensive. With the 6V6, I prefer the skinny 6V6gt over the 'fat' 6V6g. It sounded just like I describe it. The skinny being more neutral, faster and dynamic whereas the fat version has more bloom and lusher. Not saying that the GEC L63 will have similar traits as the 6V6. So to find out, it's best you buy it and find out for yourself.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,but remember I have three other tubes in my chain as well. What tube combos sounded good out of my Vinshine R2R doesnt necessarily sound good with the Lampi. The Lampi and VC have given my 6Bx7s new life for sure,whereas with the Vinshine they werent all that great.
> 
> My ears/gears and all that jazz.



Yes I agree. With due respect to you, your views are valid. I do not question someone's opinion. It's what they hear, with their own gears. YMMV becomes a standard quote hence.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright back to the cables....... did spending $700 make a difference? 

If I was a sceptic, I'm now a believer. The difference is heard, blind folded or not. It's not even subtle. It's like a veil being lifted. I think part of the reason is the cheap rca cables that I had before. The connectors are very loose and poor quality. Well it's everything. I don't know what contributes to the increased clarity, imaging and stunning sound but it's there. All the songs that I'm so familiar with in the past, sounded so much better now. 'Dark Side Of The Moon' is no longer dark now. Well it's pitch dark in the quiet passage but it shines when it should.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Alright back to the cables....... did spending $700 make a difference?
> 
> If I was a sceptic, I'm now a believer. The difference is heard, blind folded or not. It's not even subtle. It's like a veil being lifted. I think part of the reason is the cheap rca cables that I had before. The connectors are very loose and poor quality. Well it's everything. I don't know what contributes to the increased clarity, imaging and stunning sound but it's there. All the songs that I'm so familiar with in the past, sounded so much better now. 'Dark Side Of The Moon' is no longer dark now. Well it's pitch dark in the quiet passage but it shines when it should.


 Its probably the most boring way Ive ever spent a large chunk of cash in this hobby,but my experience is cables,power conditioners,USB cleaners all make a significant difference in sound.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Its probably the most boring way Ive ever spent a large chunk of cash in this hobby,but my experience is cables,power conditioners,USB cleaners all make a significant difference in sound.



It's not boring for me shopping for the cables within a budget I set. I had to drive to various locations in Sydney on Sat morning to pick up the cables and the seller promptly invited me into his house to demo his HiFi system to me. This is the beauty of this hobby. Everyone I meet is so friendly and enthusiastic about their gear and how it contributes to their listening experience. The last stop was picking up the power conditioner on my way into Canberra. The seller told me the power conditioner is the equivalent of the Isotek Polaris which retails for ~ AUD$700.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok I was only listening using Verite driven by Studio Six when posting that cables impression. Now I swap over to GOTL and the difference is even more startling !!! GOTL becomes quieter now, much to my delight... and the dynamics and energy shot skywards. I don't think I've been more captivated by GOTL performance than now with a change of a whole lot of cables. There's a new power cord for Yggdrasil even. The Isotek premier cable goes in there. 

Now the big question ..... my long resistance to upgrade Yggdrasil may have to come to an end. I think I will spend the AUD$1100 to upgrade it to Yggdrasil 2 and see and hear for myself if it's worth all that hype.  Problem is when I have upgraded to Yggdrasil 2, they will have Yggdrasil 3 !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Its probably the most boring way Ive ever spent a large chunk of cash in this hobby,but my experience is cables,power conditioners,USB cleaners all make a significant difference in sound.



A good guide is to put aside 10% of your total gear spent on cables. It's worth it and it's not snake oil. Just don't spend US$1450 on a Cardas Clear. 

https://www.moon-audio.com/cardas-clear-interconnect.html


----------



## UntilThen

Next question is.... will a pure silver cable make my Verite Open sound even more revealing....  Is there no end to spending in this hobby.


----------



## UntilThen

@UsoppNoKami  di mana anda berada ?

More photos and impressions please. Or did your GOTL go up in smoke?


----------



## DecentLevi

I've used silver cables for years. They're definitely more revealing and slightly brither with a resultant larger stage and details, tighter bass - but if the Verite is already bright it may be overkill. If going that route, search on eBay or Canuck Audio Mart for custom builders that can be much cheaper than the BS fluffed-up price brands such as Cardas.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> I've used silver cables for years. They're definitely more revealing and slightly brither with a resultant larger stage and details, tighter bass - but if the Verite is already bright it may be overkill. If going that route, search on eBay or Canuck Audio Mart for custom builders that can be much cheaper than the BS fluffed-up price brands such as Cardas.



Nope the Verite Open is not bright. If anyone tells me that Verite Open is bright, I'll question their hearing. It's not overly warm too. The beryllium drivers are very revealing. Think Focal Utopia but much more relaxed with an intoxicating mid bass. So many seasoned head-fiers have confirmed my findings of Verite Open. After nearly 2 months, I still think it's worth every penny of the US$2600. 

I do think that a pure silver cable that ZMF Headphones sells is just the ticket. Looks beautiful too. https://www.zmfheadphones.com/zmf-cables/verite-silver


----------



## UntilThen

Wow Vertie still sounds so good out of GOTL. This cables investment is the best thing I've done in this hobby. Who would have thought that? 

Had I known, I would have done so much much earlier than to chase every tube under the sun.


----------



## DecentLevi

The Verite came out just after I attended So Cal CanJam so didn't get to hear it yet even though trying every model up until the then-highest Auteur. For me it sounded fantastic in its' own right (on the PrimaLuna Evo 200 amp), right up until I plugged in the HEDDphone One and it's like the ZMF was vaporized into an unrecognizable blob with the latter giving extravagantly better speed / instrument separation and detail, IMO.
But... $400 for their cable? Now that's into Cardas cable pricing. I am certain you can get a good comparable one for $200 max. Maybe this one.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah. I only put in an initial low ball offer to get the emails flowing. This one will end when im awake. Last week I lost a bid on two Marconi U52s by 23 cents!!!! Ended at 7am. I dont care if a 25 year old Raquel Welch is offering free lap dances in my mancave,theres no way im up at 7am...OK,I might make an exception for Raquel.



 A nice head-fi member sent me a link last week on a nice set of KT66 black glass tubes...I had my mind made up what my top bid would be....I forgot to bid!!
My top bid would have won...this makes you feel bad indeed.


----------



## lukeap69

This 6J5 tube had been mentioned few times now. Will it work on the C3g slots (adapted)?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Tried to do a little fact finding on lead in tubes. The only thing I could find was that maybe there was a little lead in the solder used for the pins in the olden days.



Went and tried to find where I read this, was from a random guy on Audio Nirvana haha so hardly a peered reviewed journal citation  the tubes he is referring to, like those Ken-Rads, do have a distinctly different looking base.  So yeah, take it with a grain of salt or ten.

https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/...3-6sn7-tube-recommendations?p=75022#post75022

But hey, in case it is true, had to tell @Monsterzero since I know he likes to taste all of his tubes to see how they will sound.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Fwiw in my multiple testing of dual GEC L63 vs GEC B36, I did not detect any differences. Both sounded good to me. That's not surprising as the GEC B36 is in my top tier drivers group. I certainly don't hear the dual GEC L63 as having a wider soundstage or having better SQ than the GEC B36. If anything, it's let down by the adapter where one channel is noisy. As far as I can, I would stay away from adapters.



I can't speak to the straight glass since I only have the shouldered.  Maybe I will do another tour with some of my 6J5s and the adapter so folks can decide for themselves.  I could send the 6SN7 and corresponding 6J5 for comparison  although that would be some serious tube dollars floating around in that package.


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Oct 7, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> @UsoppNoKami  di mana anda berada ?
> 
> More photos and impressions please. Or did your GOTL go up in smoke?



Sibuk shiok sendiri la hahaha

So, here is a photo summary of my first weekend and today's anti-Monday blues:-




Started with Brimar 13D1, Tung Sol 3DG4 rectifier and 6x 6BX7 - lovely tone with every headphone I tried with it, one really could just stick to the original concept Glenn had, to have a good sounding OTL amp running cheap tubes.







First big roll, put in a pair of TS 5998, Adzam/Mullard ECC32 driver and WE422A rectifier on Glenn's custom made adaptor. This combination on the 300ohm headphones was airy, dynamic, punchy, smooth all at the same time. Great extension, details and bass.





Next up, TS 5998 made way for my pair of WE421A tubes. Felt like the sound was even more natural and balanced with this set in, a touch less bass than the TS5998 with the same driver and rectifier in place. Having said that, these tubes were all barely run NOS/NIB, don't have 30-50 hours on anything yet, so I don't know if my impressions will evolve with more running time.





Next up was the GEC 6AS7G - first disappointment I encountered. One channel was noisy. I didn't do any pin cleaning or try to reflow the pin solder etc yet, will come back to them when I am free.



Decided to listen with my planars , LCD-3 here out of the RCA 6336A + WE422A and ECC32 was nice. Huge bass, nice mids and  better clarity from the treble than what I usually hear from LCD-3, as I usually hook that up to the vintage Sansui AU-7700 haha. I have Centron 6336B as well, but didn't bother to try them yet.



I gave the ECC32 a break and put in a Tung Sol BGRP 12sn7, while swapping out power tubes to a pair of Brimar (foreign - Sylvania?) 6080 and a pair of Philips Mullard 6080. I tried the HEKSE on this set up, and quite liked what I heard. Bass was tight and textured, sound was hefty enough, no thinness perceived - felt like the planar driver was being driven properly.  So I decided to buy the Bendix 6080WB that I have been eyeing for months, a mixed quad 6080 with Bendix in it, might be my go to for the HEKSE instead of 6336, since I can mix and match to further tune the sound.



Despite enjoying the fancy tubes, the authority and sound of the 6 pack 6BX7 was still on my mind. And I promised Glenn I would send him my impressions of the WE422A. So back to a baseline setup - TS 3DG4 first, with TS BGRP driver and 6x 6BL7 power tubes (4x RCA 6BL7GTA and 2x RCA 6BL7GT).

Again, the satisfying tone from what the amp was made to run is there.  I enjoyed this with both HEKSE and Verite, a little more with the Verite as it can better handle the treble sparkle of the TS BGRP driver tube.

I did not enjoy having the WE422A in with the rest of the setup constant - I felt the treble was a bit hot. Putting in the GEC U52 rectifier in place of the WE422A seemed to tame that for me, better synergy with the TS BGRP for my tastes.



Swapping the TS BGRP for the Brimar 13D1 or the ECC32 solved that for me. I have left the ECC32 and 422A + 6x 6BL7 setup play for the whole afternoon since I got home. With the Verite, all the warmth, dynamics, detail, air and smoothness I could ask for is there, across all genres of music.



Still, i could not resist doing another roll just before dinner...



GEC U52 with the ECC32 and RCA 6BL7s - I think I will end today's experiments here. A touch warmer than the WE422A, but no less enjoyable. Pity it cannot rectify the same amount of current as the 422A, but that's why the latter is the boss rectifier I guess haha.

So far, I really like playing around with drivers with the 6 pack 6BX7/6BL7 power tubes. Not much motivation to put the TS5998 or WE421 back in for now, good as they sound not much I can tinker with.



On the other hand, I have a lot of different 6BL7 brands and tube constructions to mix and match, so I will be occupied with this for a while more...

For drivers, besides the C3g which have not been touched yet, i actually have a whole bunch of 6SN7s that I can run in the GOTL thanks to owning the Freya 1 and now Freya+. 

Mullard ECC33, Brimar 6SN7 black glass, Melz 5-hole metal base, TS VT231 BGRP, Sylvania 5692, Ken Rad VT231, Hytron 6SN7GT, Foton 68HC... And @Deyan had previously made me adaptors for 12AU7 to 6SN7 - I have Telefunken 12au7 smooth long plates, Mullard CV497 square getters, Brimar 12au7 that could possibly be used? Haven't asked/checked with Glenn, but I have a long way to go before even thinking about these...


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I can't speak to the straight glass since I only have the shouldered.  Maybe I will do another tour with some of my 6J5s and the adapter so folks can decide for themselves.  I could send the 6SN7 and corresponding 6J5 for comparison  although that would be some serious tube dollars floating around in that package.



Remember my comparison is strictly with GEC of both L63 and B36. I have no other 6j5 nor did I compare GEC L63 with any 6sn7. 

It's a case of dual GEC L63 (straight glass) vs GEC B36 (12 volt).


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> The Verite came out just after I attended So Cal CanJam so didn't get to hear it yet even though trying every model up until the then-highest Auteur. For me it sounded fantastic in its' own right (on the PrimaLuna Evo 200 amp), right up until I plugged in the HEDDphone One and it's like the ZMF was vaporized into an unrecognizable blob with the latter giving extravagantly better speed / instrument separation and detail, IMO.
> But... $400 for their cable? Now that's into Cardas cable pricing. I am certain you can get a good comparable one for $200 max. Maybe this one.



You're missing the whole point about Verite here. It's not a headphone with the fastest speed and the most details and instrument separation. It's not about the most technically capable headphone. With Verite it's about a musical experience. It's about a headphone that lets you just sit back and enjoy your music. There's enough of all those attributes and then some more. More importantly, it's a headphone that won't give you fatigue from long hours of listening.

I can tell where your preference is just by your description of what you like.

If you think $400 is Cardas pricing then you don't know how much Cardas cables cost. There are several Norne cable users here and they easily cost close to $300 plus without a pure silver cable. I don't use generic cables. My present cable is from Forza Audioworks - Claire Hybrid HPC.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> So far, I really like playing around with drivers with the 6 pack 6BX7/6BL7 power tubes. Not much motivation to put the TS5998 or WE421 back in for now, good as they sound not much I can tinker with.
> 
> On the other hand, I have a lot of different 6BL7 brands and tube constructions to mix and match, so I will be occupied with this for a while more...
> 
> For drivers, besides the C3g which have not been touched yet, i actually have a whole bunch of 6SN7s that I can run in the GOTL thanks to owning the Freya 1 and now Freya+.



Dear Ken Jie, thanks very much for all these first class photos and short and sweet impressions. You took the trouble to take pictures of the main tube combinations and give a short summary report. That's great !!!

I quoted this excerpts from you as a summary highlights of what you wrote. Your preference of sextet 6BX7 / 6BL7 over the other glamorous power tubes are exactly what I've discovered for myself after a year of intense rolling with my tubes. So much so I was willing to sell off the GEC 6as7g and though I had only recently mention to Monster that I would like to buy it back, it's more to complete the collection. However now come to think of it, it's rather pointless. Even if I buy it back, I'll still be using 6 x 6bx7 most of the time or rather all the time so what's the point of buying back the GEC 6as7g.  

You have a lot of very good drivers. Almost as much as what I have, with the addition of the ECC32, although I have a mint ECC31. Try the c3g at some point and let me know what you think. Be aware though that the tube combination of c3g and 6 x 6bx7s have very strong gains. May not be everyone's cup of tea. It impressed me on 1st listen but I soon get tired of it's energy. There are better driver's pairing with 6 x 6bx7s in my opinion - my ears of course.

Lastly, you mention Freya 1 and Freya+. Ha! I need to talk to you about these. I am keen to get a preamp and these Schitt units seem bang for the bucks.  I could get a used mint Freya 1 or I could pay a bit more for the quieter Freya+. So I'll talk to you.

Thanks.
UT


----------



## UsoppNoKami

@UntilThen Matt - I can recommend the Freya+ , but not the Freya 1. The base noise level of Freya 1's tube mode is much higher, and the tube heaters run even if you are not using tube buffer mode. Freya+ fixed all of those issues. 

Lastly, welcome to the snake oil society. I am a long paid up member 

 

Norne Einvaldi Reference & Silvergarde S3 by @TigzStudio


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> This 6J5 tube had been mentioned few times now. Will it work on the C3g slots (adapted)?



No. 6J5 is not a pentode. It's 1/2 a 6sn7. So you need a dual L63 / 6J5 to 6sn7 adapter into the 6sn7 slot. So, sorry Arnold you can't experiment with it.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> No. 6J5 is not a pentode. It's 1/2 a 6sn7. So you need a dual L63 / 6J5 to 6sn7 adapter into the 6sn7 slot. So, sorry Arnold you can't experiment with it.


That is probably a good thing... 

Cheers Matt.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 7, 2019)

UsoppNoKami said:


> @UntilThen Matt - I can recommend the Freya+ , but not the Freya 1. The base noise level of Freya 1's tube mode is much higher, and the tube heaters run even if you are not using tube buffer mode. Freya+ fixed all of those issues.
> 
> Lastly, welcome to the snake oil society. I am a long paid up member
> 
> ...


Norne cables all the way!  They really are killer cables, and for the money, can't be beat.  I am dreaming of owning the Einvaldi. . .some day.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> @UntilThen Matt - I can recommend the Freya+ , but not the Freya 1. The base noise level of Freya 1's tube mode is much higher, and the tube heaters run even if you are not using tube buffer mode. Freya+ fixed all of those issues.
> 
> Lastly, welcome to the snake oil society. I am a long paid up member
> 
> Norne Einvaldi Reference & Silvergarde S3 by @TigzStudio



My word. I admire your photos but I admire your gear even more. What's that speaker there on that nice stand? Both Verite and HEKSE are just so beautiful there. Lastly the headphone cables..... can we swapped gear?  The cables there are pure cables porn. That Norne Einvaldi Reference & Silvergarde S3 is easily $600 plus. I would like one just like that !  I don't care if it's snake oil, coconut oil or motor oil. Just give it to me. 

Thanks for the advise on Freya 1 and Freya+.


----------



## UntilThen

Wes S said:


> Norne cables all the way!  They really are killer cables, and for the money, can't be beat.



Mate we have the same taste !


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 7, 2019)

One more question Ken Jie and I won't bash you if you answer incorrectly. 

In the short time you have on this wonderful weekend with GOTL and Verite Open vs HE1000SE. Which headphone do you prefer with any of your choice tube combinations for each headphone? The truth and nothing but the truth. 

I want the truth lol.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> One more question Ken Jie and I won't bash you if you answer incorrectly.
> 
> In the short time you have on this wonderful weekend with GOTL and Verite Open vs HE1000SE. Which headphone do you prefer with any of your choice tube combinations for each headphone? The truth and nothing but the truth.




I am finally enjoying the Verite, so there is some recent listening bias haha. To be honest after I had it run in, it sat on the headphone stand mostly for the better part of 6 months, as I did not find it matched up well with my Cayin amp, nor did I think it reached TOTL greatness out of the Cavali LP. In fact, prior to GOTL's arrival, I enjoyed the Verite most direct out of my AudioGD Master-11 Singularity. With the OTL amp on hand, Verite finally sounds spectacular for me, and I have been listening to them together as much as possible regardless of tube roll.

I haven't put much time at all on the HEKSE with GOTL, I'm sure there will be a killer combo to be found, but for now I can just plug it into my Cayin with tubes I picked specifically for it and it is tremendous there. My little HA-1A mk2 sounds better than Cayin's HA-300B demo amp in the shop cuz they use crap stock tubes haha. 

There are things the HEKSE does that is out of reach of the Verite IMHO.. I really enjoy its clarity, the ethereal airiness, the way it presents delicate vocals and acoustic notes, the texture of sounds whether low, mids or treble... On the other hand, the Verite is akin to a warmer, smoother Focal Utopia, but it is always musical regardless of genre of music. The HEKSE hates badly recorded pop and metal can be challenging if you don't have the right tubes paired with it, whereas the Verite is more forgiving to me, and has standout fast punchy dynamics and great imaging. As far as I'm concerned, these two cans are complementary in what they offer as a listening experience. Love both, but if I could only have one, it would still be the HEKSE for what I listen to most of the time, and even then only by a hair...


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> I am finally enjoying the Verite, so there is some recent listening bias haha. To be honest after I had it run in, it sat on the headphone stand mostly for the better part of 6 months, as I did not find it matched up well with my Cayin amp, nor did I think it reached TOTL greatness out of the Cavali LP. In fact, prior to GOTL's arrival, I enjoyed the Verite most direct out of my AudioGD Master-11 Singularity. With the OTL amp on hand, Verite finally sounds spectacular for me, and I have been listening to them together as much as possible regardless of tube roll.
> 
> I haven't put much time at all on the HEKSE with GOTL, I'm sure there will be a killer combo to be found, but for now I can just plug it into my Cayin with tubes I picked specifically for it and it is tremendous there. My little HA-1A mk2 sounds better than Cayin's HA-300B demo amp in the shop cuz they use crap stock tubes haha.
> 
> There are things the HEKSE does that is out of reach of the Verite IMHO.. I really enjoy its clarity, the ethereal airiness, the way it presents delicate vocals and acoustic notes, the texture of sounds whether low, mids or treble... On the other hand, the Verite is akin to a warmer, smoother Focal Utopia, but it is always musical regardless of genre of music. The HEKSE hates badly recorded pop and metal can be challenging if you don't have the right tubes paired with it, whereas the Verite is more forgiving to me, and has standout fast punchy dynamics and great imaging. As far as I'm concerned, these two cans are complementary in what they offer as a listening experience. Love both, but if I could only have one, it would still be the HEKSE for what I listen to most of the time, and even then only by a hair...



I appreciate the truth lol. I don't stand in defence of Verite blindly. It does what it need to do for me but I've learn that there are many TOTL headphones that I like. We're spoilt for choice. Someday I'll wander into downtown Sydney MiniDisc store and audition the HE1000SE. I hope I don't have to spend another $5600 on that egg shape headphone which I think look really nice. 

Thanks for the detail response and I won't throw the Code Red at you.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UsoppNoKami said:


> I am finally enjoying the Verite, so there is some recent listening bias haha. To be honest after I had it run in, it sat on the headphone stand mostly for the better part of 6 months, as I did not find it matched up well with my Cayin amp, nor did I think it reached TOTL greatness out of the Cavali LP. In fact, prior to GOTL's arrival, I enjoyed the Verite most direct out of my AudioGD Master-11 Singularity. With the OTL amp on hand, Verite finally sounds spectacular for me, and I have been listening to them together as much as possible regardless of tube roll.
> 
> I haven't put much time at all on the HEKSE with GOTL, I'm sure there will be a killer combo to be found, but for now I can just plug it into my Cayin with tubes I picked specifically for it and it is tremendous there. My little HA-1A mk2 sounds better than Cayin's HA-300B demo amp in the shop cuz they use crap stock tubes haha.
> 
> There are things the HEKSE does that is out of reach of the Verite IMHO.. I really enjoy its clarity, the ethereal airiness, the way it presents delicate vocals and acoustic notes, the texture of sounds whether low, mids or treble... On the other hand, the Verite is akin to a warmer, smoother Focal Utopia, but it is always musical regardless of genre of music. The HEKSE hates badly recorded pop and metal can be challenging if you don't have the right tubes paired with it, whereas the Verite is more forgiving to me, and has standout fast punchy dynamics and great imaging. As far as I'm concerned, these two cans are complementary in what they offer as a listening experience. Love both, but if I could only have one, it would still be the HEKSE for what I listen to most of the time, and even then only by a hair...



HEKSE is short hand for "Hifiman HE1000-SE" ?

**


----------



## UsoppNoKami

JazzVinyl said:


> HEKSE is short hand for "Hifiman HE1000-SE" ?
> 
> **



indeed, a bad habit i picked up from the HE1000 thread


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> I appreciate the truth lol. I don't stand in defence of Verite blindly. It does what it need to do for me but I've learn that there are many TOTL headphones that I like. We're spoilt for choice. Someday I'll wander into downtown Sydney MiniDisc store and audition the HE1000SE. I hope I don't have to spend another $5600 on that egg shape headphone which I think look really nice.
> 
> Thanks for the detail response and I won't throw the Code Red at you.



no worries.. for what it's worth, i've only had 3 days with Verite on the GOTL, and it is indeed spectacular.  The musical enjoyment factor is 10/10.  Just a hypothetical "if i could only have one", then i would be forced to keep only the HEKSE just because of how captivated I am by its sound since I picked mine up in Feb.  I am still discovering what the Verite can actually do, so maybe my answer might be different in future


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> no worries.. for what it's worth, i've only had 3 days with Verite on the GOTL, and it is indeed spectacular.  The musical enjoyment factor is 10/10.  Just a hypothetical "if i could only have one", then i would be forced to keep only the HEKSE just because of how captivated I am by its sound since I picked mine up in Feb.  I am still discovering what the Verite can actually do, so maybe my answer might be different in future



What I discovered with Verite is what everyone has been telling me. That I need to burn it in. And burn in I did. In the process of burning it in, the tone just grew on me more and more. As with all headphones, I think we have to live with it for a while before we can make a determination. An hour at the shop won't do it justice.

I'm more of a details person. I like HD800 with a tubeamp, Stax SR-009 with Blue Hawaii, even Focal Utopia with Woo Audio WA5. However Verite Open just grew on me the more I use it. This isn't to say it's lacking in details. Just in a more relaxed way which I discovered now that I like. Strange how our preference can change over time.


----------



## GDuss

UsoppNoKami said:


> For drivers, besides the C3g which have not been touched yet



Excellent post UsoppNoKami, thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I wanted to bring this up though, as it is something @chrisdrop mentioned to me yesterday and it was a good point; there are lots of discussions about adapting various tubes to the C3g slots, but comparatively fewer posts about using actual C3g's.  Maybe everyone was talking about C3g's like 15,000 posts ago (plus or minus 5,000) but not so much lately.  I actually got a few C3g's from @Phantaminum and plan to try them at some point, but is there a general consensus on them from the group here, or what to combine them with?

UT then made this point


UntilThen said:


> Try the c3g at some point and let me know what you think. Be aware though that the tube combination of c3g and 6 x 6bx7s have very strong gains. May not be everyone's cup of tea. It impressed me on 1st listen but I soon get tired of it's energy. There are better driver's pairing with 6 x 6bx7s in my opinion - my ears of course.



If the gains with C3g and 6x 6BX7 is too much (at least for UT's ears/gear), what is a good option?  Maybe a 2 power tube combination e.g. 5998 or 6080?


----------



## UntilThen

Another thing I notice about myself and probably a lot others too. Our ears aren't content with listening to the same tone all the time. A change now and then will bring the spark to a level we didn't think possible.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> If the gains with C3g and 6x 6BX7 is too much (at least for UT's ears/gear), what is a good option? Maybe a 2 power tube combination e.g. 5998 or 6080?



c3g and a pair of 5998. One of my top combo. Nothing needs to be said.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> c3g and a pair of 5998. One of my top combo. Nothing needs to be said.



Ok, excellent.  I'll be able to try that combo soon.


----------



## chrisdrop

UntilThen said:


> c3g and a pair of 5998. One of my top combo. Nothing needs to be said.


@UntilThen - were those Siemens c3gs?


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> Excellent post UsoppNoKami, thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I wanted to bring this up though, as it is something @chrisdrop mentioned to me yesterday and it was a good point; there are lots of discussions about adapting various tubes to the C3g slots, but comparatively fewer posts about using actual C3g's.  Maybe everyone was talking about C3g's like 15,000 posts ago (plus or minus 5,000) but not so much lately.  I actually got a few C3g's from @Phantaminum and plan to try them at some point, but is there a general consensus on them from the group here, or what to combine them with?
> 
> UT then made this point
> 
> ...



C3g and 5998's or a pair of 6AS7/6H13C or 6080's sound great.  I find everything to be nice with C3g except the upper treble.   It is not as smooth/liquid as the SN7 tubes will get you, imho.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> If the gains with C3g and 6x 6BX7 is too much (at least for UT's ears/gear), what is a good option? Maybe a 2 power tube combination e.g. 5998 or 6080?



c3g with 6 x 6bx7gt is like caviar to me. You eat it on special occasions and be really move by it. Not as a daily meal. Try it. You will be wow by it. It's the 1st tube combination that I use when I got GOTL. This is the 1st picture of it.


----------



## UntilThen

chrisdrop said:


> @UntilThen - were those Siemens c3gs?



Yes they are. I only have Siemens c3g. 3 pairs of them. 2 branded Siemens and one branded Telefunken c3g/s.


----------



## UntilThen

What I like more is using a pair of Telefunken EL11 with either 2 x 5998 or 6 x 6bx7gt. Also like Mullard EL32 with those power tubes.


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> C3g and 5998's or a pair of 6AS7/6H13C or 6080's sound great.  I find everything to be nice with C3g except the upper treble.   It is not as smooth/liquid as the SN7 tubes will get you, imho.



Maybe the upper treble won't be an issue with the Aeolus, we will see.  I keep making priority lists of what combinations to try for the next several experiments, then the rankings keep changing.  Terrible problems to have right ?


----------



## Phantaminum

GDuss said:


> Excellent post UsoppNoKami, thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I wanted to bring this up though, as it is something @chrisdrop mentioned to me yesterday and it was a good point; there are lots of discussions about adapting various tubes to the C3g slots, but comparatively fewer posts about using actual C3g's.  Maybe everyone was talking about C3g's like 15,000 posts ago (plus or minus 5,000) but not so much lately.  I actually got a few C3g's from @Phantaminum and plan to try them at some point, but is there a general consensus on them from the group here, or what to combine them with?
> 
> UT then made this point
> 
> ...



You can use the c3g with the 6BX7s (I’ve done it several times before) which makes for a very detailed and punchy combination. On the other hand, fine tuning the volume was hard as one click on the stepped attenuator really raised the volume and by 10 o’clock is already border line loud.

Try them with the 6336 nuclear power plant tubes or the Russians. Very quiet indeed.

Do find yourself a pair of 5998s or my favorite tube in that amp the GEC 6080s. If you can also find a black plate Fivre 6SL7 with the round top and combine it with the GEC that’s really a deep and very layered sound stage. Knocked my socks off that one.


----------



## chrisdrop

Given that I can't possibly buy every tube combo you fine people have scoured for (so far), I am cataloguing these. I will eventually get and re-live the fun you had N years back  Thanks for blazing an audio trail worth enjoying..


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> c3g with 6 x 6bx7gt is like caviar to me. You eat it on special occasions and be really move by it. Not as a daily meal.



Thanks for the analogy.  And since I spent all my caviar money on the GOTL and Aeolus (and now continuing on tubes), I'll have to take your word for this and just be overstimulated with C3g and 6BX7.


----------



## UntilThen

chrisdrop said:


> @UntilThen - were those Siemens c3gs?



These are the ones. It has been established by Gibosi that the shiny metal shield ones are Siemens even if they are Telefunken brand. Which is fine by me because I think these Siemens c3gs sound really good. I didn't think it's worthwhile for me to chase those Lorenz c3g. Just too many tubes already.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Given that I can't possibly buy every tube combo you fine people have scoured for (so far), I am cataloguing these. I will eventually get and re-live the fun you had N years back  Thanks for blazing an audio trail worth enjoying..



+1 (or +10) from me too!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> Maybe the upper treble won't be an issue with the Aeolus, we will see.  I keep making priority lists of what combinations to try for the next several experiments, then the rankings keep changing.  Terrible problems to have right ?



Indeed!  

The Glenn amp tends to make the most of what you feed it.  Took me longer to find my 'drop dead favorite combination' than I thought it would...


----------



## UntilThen

chrisdrop said:


> Given that I can't possibly buy every tube combo you fine people have scoured for (so far), I am cataloguing these. I will eventually get and re-live the fun you had N years back  Thanks for blazing an audio trail worth enjoying..



Don't follow me. I'll be going tubeless soon.  

No I won't. Tubes will follow me all the days of my life from here on.


----------



## GDuss

Phantaminum said:


> On the other hand, fine tuning the volume was hard as one click on the stepped attenuator really raised the volume and by 10 o’clock is already border line loud.



So I am using the Hugo2 as a DAC in front of the GOTL.  One of the nice things about Hugo2 is that, since it has no official "amp" section, and the output comes straight off the DAC, when you use it as a DAC only, the volume control serves as a line-out voltage adjuster.  If you can't get the volume where you want it with an amp, you can adjust the line-out level from Hugo2.  Chord has a line-out mode on the Hugo2, but it's just a set voltage that they chose to use for line-out, you can still adjust that up and down as much as you want.  It comes in handy sometimes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> Given that I can't possibly buy every tube combo you fine people have scoured for (so far), I am cataloguing these. I will eventually get and re-live the fun you had N years back  Thanks for blazing an audio trail worth enjoying..



A lot of it is synergy too...depends on what cans you have...and your hearing, your fave tube tube combo may or may not match anyone else's.

Just remember that the SN7 voltage switcher lets you buy the much less expensive 12v versions of popular tubes!


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Thanks for the analogy.  And since I spent all my caviar money on the GOTL and Aeolus (and now continuing on tubes), I'll have to take your word for this and just be overstimulated with C3g and 6BX7.



Omg. You'll be changing your profession soon Mr Guss.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Omg. You'll be changing your profession soon Mr Guss.



Probably not, just need a 2nd and 3rd job.  Hopefully those jobs let me listen to music.


----------



## GDuss

And on top of all of this buying, today is the last day for Verite Closed discount pricing .  Need to maintain self control here.  Not sure why I'm telling all of you, I'm likely to get talked into getting in line for VC (but I still would like VO first).


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Do find yourself a pair of 5998s or my favorite tube in that amp the GEC 6080s.



Listen to this man. GEC 6080 are really nice in the GOTL. I have 4 of them but they don't much chance of being roll in ! Like I say too many tubes too little time.


----------



## pippen99

I am a big believer in silver cables.  DH Labs AES/EBU(streamer to Dac), DH Labs Revelation XLR(Dac to Amp), Silver Verite(in production), Norne Silvergarde S3, Double Helix Prion4 and Prion4 1/4 adapter(Yeah I know that is really over the top so sue me).  So far I have not been able to wrap my head around power conditioner/regenerator for a headphone system. Too many other ways to spend my money so far.


----------



## UntilThen

pippen99 said:


> I am a big believer in silver cables.  DH Labs AES/EBU(streamer to Dac), DH Labs Revelation XLR(Dac to Amp), Silver Verite(in production), Norne Silvergarde S3, Double Helix Prion4 and Prion4 1/4 adapter(Yeah I know that is really over the top so sue me).  So far I have not been able to wrap my head around power conditioner/regenerator for a headphone system. Too many other ways to spend my money so far.



Just give me a silver cable for Verite and I won't sue you. Power conditioner can be cheap. The one I bought cost just AUD$120 used but in very good condition. Simple and effective. Like I say, the difference from adding the power cords, rca interconnects and power conditioner is a mind bender. My setup is up several notches. No kidding. Way past my bedtime now but I'm still listening.


----------



## chrisdrop

JazzVinyl said:


> Just remember that the SN7 voltage switcher lets you buy the much less expensive 12v versions of popular tubes!


As someone without a years-long tube collection.. VERY thankful for this.

I am going to start with what @2359glenn  sends with the amp and let it go _slowly_, enjoying every step and change. I will _attempt_ to resist the urge to buy every-tube available to me straight-away. You are all helpfully not helping


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 7, 2019)

GDuss said:


> And on top of all of this buying, today is the last day for Verite Closed discount pricing .  Need to maintain self control here.  Not sure why I'm telling all of you, I'm likely to get talked into getting in line for VC (but I still would like VO first).


 
You need some counselling from me who will only get you to buy more gear. Self control Mr Guss. Only one toy per Christmas and another one for birthday and another for Father's day and another one for Easter, etc, etc.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Listen to this man. GEC 6080 are really nice in the GOTL. I have 4 of them but they don't much chance of being roll in ! Like I say too many tubes too little time.



Clearly I'm never having caviar again, now I have to find some GEC 6080.  Actually I've never had caviar in the first place, so I don't know what I'm missing.  Let's then say I'll never have Brunello again, which is a sad thought.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Clearly I'm never having caviar again, now I have to find some GEC 6080.  Actually I've never had caviar in the first place, so I don't know what I'm missing.  Let's then say I'll never have Brunello again, which is a sad thought.



It's hard to laugh at 2am on a Tuesday morning but I am. I like your sense of humour. You have a way with words !


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> You need some counselling from me who will only get you to buy more gear.



Counseling on the VC should proceed until approximately 11:59 pm central US time (according to the website).

Actually, I need counseling from @chrisdrop 



chrisdrop said:


> I am going to start with what @2359glenn sends with the amp and let it go _slowly_, enjoying every step and change. I will _attempt_ to resist the urge to buy every-tube available to me straight-away. You are all helpfully not helping



He's got the right idea.  But he also already bought the VC .


----------



## chrisdrop

GDuss said:


> Counseling on the VC should proceed until approximately 11:59 pm central US time (according to the website).
> 
> Actually, I need counseling from @chrisdrop
> 
> He's got the right idea.  But he also already bought the VC .


..  I am not strong here! Lean not on me, else we will both fall !

#evil get a VC!!!! rationalisation galore here..
#good save your money
#evil get a VC!!!!
..


----------



## UntilThen

VC or VO, they are very nice headphones for music listening. You stop analysing. You will start listening to music again. That's quite an incredible phenomenon. 

Now it's time to sleep. Sleep is the best pastime. It's free, safe and you get bonus dreams. Goodnight !


----------



## mordy (Oct 7, 2019)

Hi UT,
Here is my power conditioner. I have it so long that I don't remember how it effects the sound, but I think that it made the background blacker. It is buried under a snakepit of wires, so I only have the pictures from the box it came in:







I think that it works upside down as well lol....
Wonder how it compares to newer stuff. I once bought an isolation transformer but it did nothing for me.
PS: Any connection to you Monsterzero?


----------



## DelsFan

pippen99 said:


> I am a big believer in silver cables.  DH Labs AES/EBU(streamer to Dac), DH Labs Revelation XLR(Dac to Amp), Silver Verite(in production), Norne Silvergarde S3, Double Helix Prion4 and Prion4 1/4 adapter(Yeah I know that is really over the top so sue me).  So far I have not been able to wrap my head around power conditioner/regenerator for a headphone system. Too many other ways to spend my money so far.



I am nearly to the point where I can sit and listen (and do some A-B comparisons, like silver cable vs copper) rather than figuring out what to buy (for networking) and getting my Nephew to install it.  Which he will do this week - I hope to be 100% up and running with the Streamer/amp/headphones (and streamer app on my iPad) by Friday.  I do need an XLR to 1/4" adapter to go with the amplifier I've borrowed though - right now I'm using a $10 one from Amazon so I know that's a "mistake"!  The fine people at DoubleHelix make a solid one-piece (I guess if it is solid, it can't be two pieces) adapter for around $100 that looks good, and convenient - I might call them now...

I am currently trying some copper interconnects from Omega Micro; they are essentially flat copper ribbons-in-a-clear-sleeve.  It would be interesting to compare them with the ones you have from DH Labs and with the Verites too, as Evansville isn't that far from... WAIT, I've met you at Thom's, near Nashville!  Maybe I'll see you Nov. 2?  And I need to pay attention, as it would be great to come up for one of the Louisville meets also.  I'll PM you a photo of the setup, half-completed...  If I ever do get your way, I'd be glad to bring my IsoTek Sirius EVO3 power conditioner for you to try with your system.

I've got to get to what I was supposed to start doing two hours ago, but will pick your brain later about the Glenn tube-based amplifiers also.  I've got to buy something soon - especially if it is from someone with a 6-month waiting list!


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Here is my power conditioner. I have it so long that I don't remember how it effects the sound, but I think that it made the background blacker. It is buried under a snakepit of wires, so I only have the pictures from the box it came in:
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Mordy, I too have that exact same power conditioner. Like you its been with me since I cant recall. The difference between it and the PSAudio Dectet are dramatic,well,as dramatic it can get from power conditioners. The Monster(no relation)has been long since banished to TV duty.

@UsoppNoKami 
422a vs, GEC U52?


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Next question is.... will a pure silver cable make my Verite Open sound even more revealing....  Is there no end to spending in this hobby.


 Silver cables tend to have a slight metallic tone that I personally do not like. YMMV.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Dam I wish I was there.


We ALL wished you were there! Would be a great honor for me to meet and shake hands with the amp designer and builder extraordinaire


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> However theres not enough cash in the world that one could offer me to jump out of a perfectly working airplane. Not a chance in hell. No way. Un-uh.





UntilThen said:


> Yes first dive. I hope it's a gorgeous female instructor I'll be strapped to jumping out of the plane. Yeehaa.



Actually skydived once.  I was worried I would panic and refuse to jump when the time comes, but the airplane ride to jump altitude was in such cramped conditions - I could not wait to get the hell out of this dinky little plane!  
As a side story, I happened to do it on my GF's birthday... She was visiting family in the east coast, and had no idea of my adventure until AFTER the fact. I did put her name and phone # as emergency contact, but made the girl at the reception promise me that if I die - she would wait a day to call, not to ruin my GF's birthday!!  True story.
To your comment monster - I did get a certificate that says that this individual jumped out of a perfectly working airplane. Too funny.


----------



## GDuss

Zachik said:


> Actually skydived once.  I was worried I would panic and refuse to jump when the time comes, but the airplane ride to jump altitude was in such cramped conditions - I could not wait to get the hell out of this dinky little plane!
> As a side story, I happened to do it on my GF's birthday... She was visiting family in the east coast, and had no idea of my adventure until AFTER the fact. I did put her name and phone # as emergency contact, but made the girl at the reception promise me that if I die - she would wait a day to call, not to ruin my GF's birthday!!  True story.
> To your comment monster - I did get a certificate that says that this individual jumped out of a perfectly working airplane. Too funny.



The only time that someone asked me to go skydiving with them, my first thought was whether my insurance policy would pay out if I died skydiving.  Then it occurred to me that if my first thought is about insurance payouts, I really shouldn't be skydiving.


----------



## mordy

I would never consider such a thing as sky diving, but I have a son who did a few jumps as part of an Arizona fire dept sky jumper exercise.
I get my thrills from A/B-ing EL11 tubes......
Which reminds me: I tried the TFK ST EL11 and compared them to the TFK EL11 Tubular. The ST sounded better without the third driver. However, the tubular ones have a special synergy with the third driver and this combination brings something very special to the listening table.
Can't figure these things out.....
But today's exhilarating discoveries and sound become tomorrow's normal, and you keep on looking for more. And if not more, at least different, as UT pointed out.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 7, 2019)

I get enough thrills at work, no skydiving for me, any more adrenaline and my heart will explode!  My hobbies are all the anti-adrenaline rush: music, tubes, yoga, astronomy, meditation


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I get enough thrills at work, no skydiving for me, any more adrenaline and my heart will explode!  My hobbies are all the anti-adrenaline rush: music, tubes, yoga,* astronomy,* meditation


 when my wife and I move to southern Arizona in a cpl years I will likely hit you up for some Astronomy 101 tips. 
Ive seen the Milky Way before,but my wife,who is a lifelong East Coaster, sees the photos taken from Az. She thinks theyre fake.


----------



## mordy (Oct 7, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> when my wife and I move to southern Arizona in a cpl years I will likely hit you up for some Astronomy 101 tips.
> Ive seen the Milky Way before,but my wife,who is a lifelong East Coaster, sees the photos taken from Az. She thinks theyre fake.


There is a guy that takes fantastic 360 degree panorama photos in Utah. You can click and drag around the photo - there are gorgeous pictures of the night sky:
https://www.utah3d.net/utah-travel/southern-utah/coral-pink-sand-dunes-night/index.html

Never seen so many stars at one time.....


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Monsterzero said:


> @UsoppNoKami
> 422a vs, GEC U52?



They are both good, I believe one will sound better than the other just based on synergy with the rest of the tubes in the amp.  That much is discernible already from rolling drivers while keeping the rest of the tubes the same.  



Monsterzero said:


> Silver cables tend to have a slight metallic tone that I personally do not like. YMMV.



i tried silver plated copper and thin gauge silver cables early on, which would give nice extension but seem to add some glare too in the edges of sound.  Then i started talking to Trevor at Norne Audio, and decided to get pure silver 4x20AWG Silvergarde S3 - sound is very natural, yet detailed while not lacking in smoothness.  Even has a touch of warmth.  The 8x20AWG silver+8x26AWG copper (total 8x19AWG) Einvaldi was my next acquisition - this is a real masterpiece, Trevor can tune the cable to suit your headphones.  Give it a try if you have the chance at a meet or something.  No harm except potentially to your wallet if you end up liking it heh


----------



## Monsterzero

UsoppNoKami said:


> They are both good, I believe one will sound better than the other just based on synergy with the rest of the tubes in the amp. That much is discernible already from rolling drivers while keeping the rest of the tubes the same.



Yes,chain,preferences and headphones all play a part in it. Im curious though which of the two would you says has better:

bass slam
bass extension
warmer/brighter
staging

etc...

Thanks


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Monsterzero said:


> Yes,chain,preferences and headphones all play a part in it. Im curious though which of the two would you says has better:
> 
> bass slam
> bass extension
> ...



haha sorry mate, I don't know them well enough yet  

Will share more next time when I get to know how they play with all the combinations... right now the only 'test' style listening i have done with WE422A vs U52, i shared in my long post earlier in reply to UT, and my personal conclusion then was I did not like the TS BGRP with WE422A, whereas the U52 with it was enjoyable.  Didnt pay attention to the technicalities beyond that, will get to it one day...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> when my wife and I move to southern Arizona in a cpl years I will likely hit you up for some Astronomy 101 tips.
> Ive seen the Milky Way before,but my wife,who is a lifelong East Coaster, sees the photos taken from Az. She thinks theyre fake.



I will be very jealous, its all about how dark the sky is, determines your ability to see very faint deep sky objects.  I drive 1.5 hours east of of Cleveland to get to a certified dark site, but it's nothing like out west and there is sky glow from the city.  Getting to absolute darkness east of the Mississippi is very difficult, out west it's easy!

Feel free to ask for tips. It's a great hobby, another expensive one though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Getting to absolute darkness east of the Mississippi is very difficult, out west it's easy!



And in Europe, impossible.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> when my wife and I move to southern Arizona in a cpl years I will likely hit you up for some Astronomy 101 tips.
> Ive seen the Milky Way before,but my wife,who is a lifelong East Coaster, sees the photos taken from Az. She thinks theyre fake.



Let's hope Southern Arizona has any water left.  The water table is being pumped to a deeper and deeper depth, it is being used far faster than nature replenishes it.  

It is so low now, that it is lower than the Pacific Ocean to its west, and salt water is coming in and contaminating the remainder.

.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Berlin is first and foremost a headphone amp. Driving speakers with it is secondary


Same for my 6EL3N. Mostly be used for headphones, but will sometimes be used for driving a pair of bookshelf speakers!


----------



## Zachik

JazzVinyl said:


> Glenn for President!!


Best option for 2020 elections, by a landslide 
Glenn - you got my vote!!


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Let's hope Southern Arizona has any water left.  The water table is being pumped to a deeper and deeper depth, it is being used far faster than nature replenishes it.
> 
> It is so low now, that it is lower than the Pacific Ocean to its west, and salt water is coming in and contaminating the remainder.
> 
> .


 Yeah,it is after all,a desert. Arizona is now the fastest growing state in the Union.

https://www.abc15.com/news/state/arizona-is-the-fastest-growing-state-in-the-nation


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I will be very jealous, its all about how dark the sky is, determines your ability to see very faint deep sky objects.  I drive 1.5 hours east of of Cleveland to get to a certified dark site, but it's nothing like out west and there is sky glow from the city.  Getting to absolute darkness east of the Mississippi is very difficult, out west it's easy!
> 
> Feel free to ask for tips. It's a great hobby, another expensive one though.


The photographer of the 3D panoramas has a section on what he calls light pollution - it is very difficult to find an area without it.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> The photographer of the 3D panoramas has a section on what he calls light pollution - it is very difficult to find an area without it.


 Arizona now has ten dark parks,where normal lights are illegal

https://www.visitarizona.com/dark-skies


----------



## UntilThen

Woke up to a few pages of posts. You guys talk more than I do..... which is a good thing.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah,it is after all,a desert. Arizona is now the fastest growing state in the Union.
> 
> https://www.abc15.com/news/state/arizona-is-the-fastest-growing-state-in-the-nation



One of my brother lives in Phoenix, Arizona. Someday I'll visit him.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 7, 2019)

mordy said:


> The photographer of the 3D panoramas has a section on what he calls light pollution - it is very difficult to find an area without it.



Unfortunately, it's true.  The worst contributors are things like street lights.  Lights that do not contribute are actually very affordable, but it wasn't a concern back when this infrastructure was put in place, and no one really cares now.  Most people haven't truly seen the night sky, which is sad considering it may hold the secrets to our origins!  (depending on your beliefs, of course ).  Can boggle your brain if you think about it too much.

Here is a light pollution map I use: https://www.lightpollutionmap.info


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Woke up to a few pages of posts. You guys talk more than I do..... which is a good thing.



We all work together to carry the thread while you're away, M


----------



## UntilThen

DelsFan said:


> I am nearly to the point where I can sit and listen (and do some A-B comparisons, like silver cable vs copper) rather than figuring out what to buy (for networking) and getting my Nephew to install it.  Which he will do this week - I hope to be 100% up and running with the Streamer/amp/headphones (and streamer app on my iPad) by Friday.  I do need an XLR to 1/4" adapter to go with the amplifier I've borrowed though - right now I'm using a $10 one from Amazon so I know that's a "mistake"!  The fine people at DoubleHelix make a solid one-piece (I guess if it is solid, it can't be two pieces) adapter for around $100 that looks good, and convenient - I might call them now...
> 
> I am currently trying some copper interconnects from Omega Micro; they are essentially flat copper ribbons-in-a-clear-sleeve.  It would be interesting to compare them with the ones you have from DH Labs and with the Verites too, as Evansville isn't that far from... WAIT, I've met you at Thom's, near Nashville!  Maybe I'll see you Nov. 2?  And I need to pay attention, as it would be great to come up for one of the Louisville meets also.  I'll PM you a photo of the setup, half-completed...  If I ever do get your way, I'd be glad to bring my IsoTek Sirius EVO3 power conditioner for you to try with your system.
> 
> I've got to get to what I was supposed to start doing two hours ago, but will pick your brain later about the Glenn tube-based amplifiers also.  I've got to buy something soon - especially if it is from someone with a 6-month waiting list!



That IsoTek Sirius EVO3 power conditioner will be even better. What I had is supposed to be the equivalent of the Isotek Polaris EVO3. Listen to the system again this morning and I wasn't dreaming. The difference is startling. I was on the ordinary cables without power conditioner for a long time hence I can hear and notice the differences straight away and I'm also very familiar  with my setup.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Silver cables tend to have a slight metallic tone that I personally do not like. YMMV.



My present cable Claire Hybrid HPC from Forza Audioworks is a mix of copper and silver. I do like it. Very clear and smooth.... and not that expensive.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Unfortunately, it's true.  The worst contributors are things like street lights.  Lights that do not contribute are actually very affordable, but it wasn't a concern back when this infrastructure was put in place, and no one really cares now.  Most people haven't truly see the night sky, which is sad considering it may hold the secrets to our origins!  (depending on your beliefs, of course ).  Can boggle your brain if you think about it too much.
> 
> Here is a light pollution map I use: https://www.lightpollutionmap.info


That map is something else! You can keep on magnifying it until a resolution of 50 meters! I was able to look up the street I grew up on in Sweden half a century ago......


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Woke up to a few pages of posts. You guys talk more than I do..... which is a good thing.


*Posts: *13,251


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> We all work together to carry the thread while you're away, M



What a champ you guys are. Now I'll rest easy should I decide to take a retirement from forum posting. It's in capable hands, feet and heads here !


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> *Posts: *13,251



That's higher than my car odometer reading, which is still under 7,000. I think Head-Fi counter is wrong or someone's posting with my sign-on. Could be that @Rossliew !


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> *Posts: *13,251



Also top 5 for day, week, and month.  He's a legend.


----------



## mordy

Please don't retire from posting - the blog would not be the same.


----------



## GDuss

I know this forum tends to get off topic sometimes (and sometimes it's my fault) but I appreciate the friendly and helpful nature of the people here.  There are many forums on Head-Fi where people very easily get into disagreements, get their feelings hurt, take things the wrong way, have to prove to everyone how much they know (while often achieving the opposite).  Thanks UT and everyone else for making this an enjoyable place to post.  It is also an incredibly informative place at the same time.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> I know this forum tends to get off topic sometimes (and sometimes it's my fault) but I appreciate the friendly and helpful nature of the people here.  There are many forums on Head-Fi where people very easily get into disagreements, get their feelings hurt, take things the wrong way, have to prove to everyone how much they know (while often achieving the opposite).  Thanks UT and everyone else for making this an enjoyable place to post.  It is also an incredibly informative place at the same time.



Don't forget the jokes ! It's been a while but I've to borrow this joke. It's a favourite of mine.

_A Man Walks Into a Bar...

he leans over and says to the bartender, "Hey, will you give me a free beer if I show you something so amazing that I can guarantee you've never seen it before?"
The bartender says, "Okay, but it had better be good."
The man reaches into his coat pocket and pulls out a hamster. He sets the hamster down on the bar. It scurries about, jumps off the end, turns a perfect somersault in midair, and lands on the piano. He then begins to dance across the keys, playing the piano beautifully. The bartender says, "Wow! That was truly incredible! Have a beer."
The man finishes his beer and says to the bartender, "Hey, if I show you something else that is so amazing I can guarantee you've never seen before, will you give me another free beer?"
"If it's as amazing as that hamster, then sure," the bartender replies.
So the man reaches into his other coat pocket and pulls out a frog. He sets the frog down on the bar, and the frog begins to sing beautifully. The bartender is again amazed, and the man earns another beer.
As the man is drinking his beer, a guy at the other end of the bar walks over and says, "What a performer! I'll give you $500 for that frog."
The first man says, "It’s a deal!" and sells the guy his frog. The bartender shakes his head slowly. "Not that it's any of my business, mind you, but that was a real, live singing frog. Why would you sell it for only $500? You could have made millions off of it."
The man says, "Nah, don't worry. The hamster's also a ventriloquist."_


----------



## attmci (Oct 7, 2019)

GDuss said:


> I know this forum tends to get off topic sometimes (and sometimes it's my fault) but I appreciate the friendly and helpful nature of the people here.  There are many forums on Head-Fi where people very easily get into disagreements, get their feelings hurt, take things the wrong way, have to prove to everyone how much they know (while often achieving the opposite).  Thanks UT and everyone else for making this an enjoyable place to post.  It is also an incredibly informative place at the same time.


You know the ppl here are all senior citizens and in their 80s like Matt. I JUST a couple dozen yrs younger.

I pay respect to all of them.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 7, 2019)

attmci said:


> You know the ppl here are all senior citizens and in their 80s like Matt. I JUST a couple dozen yrs younger.
> 
> I pay respect to all of them.



No mate I'm a young budding flower at 63. I still have Col du Tourmalet on my bucket list to climb.

Another joke...

A carpet layer was laying the carpets for a big lounge room. When He had just finished, he was trying to get a smoke but couldn't find his pack of cigarettes.  Then he noticed a lump under the carpet in the middle of the room and thought that must be his pack of cigarettes. Not wanting to tear up the whole room carpet and start again, he took out his hammer and proceeded to flatten the lump under the carpet. When he had finished, he was quite happy that it's all flat. Just then the lady of the house walks in and ask, 'I found a pack of cigarettes but have you seen my little cute hamster?'.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> No mate I'm a young budding flower at 63. I still have Col du Tourmalet on my bucket list to climb.
> 
> Another joke...
> 
> A carpet layer was laying the carpets for a big lounge room. When He had just finished, he was trying to get a smoke but couldn't find his pack of cigarettes.  Then he noticed a lump under the carpet in the middle of the room and thought that must be his pack of cigarettes. Not wanting to tear up the whole room carpet and start again, he took out his hammer and proceeded to flatten the lump under the carpet. When he had finished, he was quite happy that it's all flat. Just then the lady of the house walks in and ask, 'Have you seen my little cute hamster?'.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> No mate I'm a young budding flower at 63. I still have Col du Tourmalet on my bucket list to climb.
> 
> Another joke...
> 
> A carpet layer was laying the carpets for a big lounge room. When He had just finished, he was trying to get a smoke but couldn't find his pack of cigarettes.  Then he noticed a lump under the carpet in the middle of the room and thought that must be his pack of cigarettes. Not wanting to tear up the whole room carpet and start again, he took out his hammer and proceeded to flatten the lump under the carpet. When he had finished, he was quite happy that it's all flat. Just then the lady of the house walks in and ask, 'I found a pack of cigarettes but have you seen my little cute hamster?'.



That poor...carpet.  Never did a thing to anyone.


----------



## Monsterzero

Two old ladies are outside their nursing home, having a smoke, when it starts to rain. One of the ladies pulls out a condom, cuts off the end, puts it over her cigarette and continues smoking.

Lady 1: What's that?

Lady 2: A condom. This way my cigarette doesn't get wet.

Lady 1: Where did you get that?

Lady 2: You can get them at any drugstore.

The next day, Lady 1 hobbles herself into the local drugstore and announces to the pharmacist that she wants a box of condoms.

The guy, obviously embarrassed, looks at her kind of strangely (she is after all over 80 years of age), but very delicately asks what brand she prefers.

Lady 1: Doesn't matter son, as long as it fits a camel.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Two old ladies are outside their nursing home, having a smoke, when it starts to rain. One of the ladies pulls out a condom, cuts off the end, puts it over her cigarette and continues smoking.
> 
> Lady 1: What's that?
> 
> ...




Subscribed !!!


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> Two old ladies are outside their nursing home, having a smoke, when it starts to rain. One of the ladies pulls out a condom, cuts off the end, puts it over her cigarette and continues smoking.
> 
> Lady 1: What's that?
> 
> ...



Awesome, but where are the hamsters in this joke?


----------



## Monsterzero

GDuss said:


> Awesome, but where are the hamsters in this joke?


 I think UT has Hamsters covered


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> I think UT has Hamsters covered



Ohohohoho I see what you did there, well done


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> I think UT has Hamsters covered



Oof the dad puns!


----------



## DelsFan

UntilThen said:


> 30 mins with C3gs and 6 x 6bx7gt and it's singing beautifully with no ill effects. Forgot how lovely this combo can sound. So lively and crystal clear and sweet. Amp is perfect and will stay this way.
> 
> The inside of the amp still look perfect after one year. Nice.



So, a question prompted by a photo from a long-ago post:  Is it common with tube-based amplifiers (at least when the tubes are exposed) to mount the tube sockets to the top of the amplifier casing, and then essentially build everything else around them and attach them to the... top?  Essentially, in the end most of the electronics are hanging from the top of the casing, rather than "sitting" on the bottom?  It seems the DNA Stellaris is built this way also.


----------



## Monsterzero

DelsFan said:


> So, a question prompted by a photo from a long-ago post:  Is it common with tube-based amplifiers (at least when the tubes are exposed) to mount the tube sockets to the top of the amplifier casing, and then essentially build everything else around them and attach them to the... top?  Essentially, in the end most of the electronics are hanging from the top of the casing, rather than "sitting" on the bottom?  It seems the DNA Stellaris is built this way also.


 Both my DAC as well as my Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum have the sockets below the top surface. Personally I hate it. Im so used to rolling on the GOTL,to do it another way is difficult.


----------



## 2359glenn

DelsFan said:


> So, a question prompted by a photo from a long-ago post:  Is it common with tube-based amplifiers (at least when the tubes are exposed) to mount the tube sockets to the top of the amplifier casing, and then essentially build everything else around them and attach them to the... top?  Essentially, in the end most of the electronics are hanging from the top of the casing, rather than "sitting" on the bottom?  It seems the DNA Stellaris is built this way also.



Yes this is the old way of making things everything was made like this TVs Radio's Stereos everything electronic was made this way.
Unless it has a circuit board with everything soldered to that.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Both my DAC as well as my Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum have the sockets below the top surface. Personally I hate it. Im so used to rolling on the GOTL,to do it another way is difficult.



They have circuit boards with the tube sockets soldered on them.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> when my wife and I move to southern Arizona in a cpl years I will likely hit you up for some Astronomy 101 tips.
> Ive seen the Milky Way before,but my wife,who is a lifelong East Coaster, sees the photos taken from Az. She thinks theyre fake.


After you settle in - I will be happy to come over to visit     Music and night sky photography.... mmmmmmm......
My GF and I spent ThanksGivings weekend couple years ago in SoCal, and drove to Joshua Tree national park with the intent of taking Milky Way long exposure night shots. We got some decent photos (for amateurs).


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Feel free to ask for tips. It's a great hobby, another expensive one though.


Name 1 hobby that is not expensive, especially when you're getting serious with it...


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> Name 1 hobby that is not expensive, especially when you're getting serious with it...



Well, one of my hobbies is girl-watching. And so far, it hasn't cost me a dime. But maybe I am not serious enough?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Name 1 hobby that is not expensive, especially when you're getting serious with it...


 
Very true.  I am thinking about getting into cultivating bonsai trees, I'm afraid to look at the cost to get started.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Very true.  I am thinking about getting into cultivating bonsai trees, I'm afraid to look at the cost to get started.



Don’t get started. I was into Bonsai and Orchids before audio.

Or maybe I should have stayed in that then getting into audio.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> After you settle in - I will be happy to come over to visit     Music and night sky photography.... mmmmmmm......
> My GF and I spent ThanksGivings weekend couple years ago in SoCal, and drove to Joshua Tree national park with the intent of taking Milky Way long exposure night shots. We got some decent photos (for amateurs).


Can you show us a picture or two?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Don’t get started. I was into Bonsai and Orchids before audio.
> 
> Or maybe I should have stayed in that then getting into audio.



Why not?


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> Well, one of my hobbies is girl-watching. And so far, it hasn't cost me a dime. But maybe I am not serious enough?


I know a guy that had this hobby... Guess he got more serious, because he's now stuck with 18 years of child support payments!


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> I know a guy that had this hobby... Guess he got more serious, because he's now stuck with 18 years of child support payments!



LOL. Well, I follow the 5-Second Rule. So I can't look at any one woman for more than 5 seconds.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Why not?



At the height of my orchid craze, I had like 500 plants and I spend a few thousands on it. 

With Bonsai, I was trying to create a contortionist plant.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Don’t get started. I was into Bonsai and Orchids before audio.


I raised orchids with my Thai girlfriend when I lived on Samui. I will have to dig up some pics I took. Oddly orchids dont do well in New York.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> At the height of my orchid craze, I had like 500 plants and I spend a few thousands on it.
> 
> With Bonsai, I was trying to create a contortionist plant.


My favorite flower is the Iris. It grows here and has very varied and beautiful colors:





The problem is that it has a life span of about two weeks end of May - beginning of June. That's it.








The flowers don't last, but the pictures do....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> At the height of my orchid craze, I had like 500 plants and I spend a few thousands on it.
> 
> With Bonsai, I was trying to create a contortionist plant.



That sounds quite nice, would love to see pictures, I just want a single bonsai though, my home isn't big enough for 500.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> My favorite flower is the Iris. It grows here and has very varied and beautiful colors:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lovely shots Mordy! Makes me miss my orchids.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> That sounds quite nice, would love to see pictures, I just want a single bonsai though, my home isn't big enough for 500.



I have to dig up my photos. This was back in 2003 to 2005.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Can you show us a picture or two?


Here you go...  Mind you that unlike the amazing photos that you see from pros (or more serious hobbyists than we are) - this is a single shot. Not multi-exposure photos overlaid etc. Just single long exposure photo.  With some imagination, you can see the Milky Way...


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Here you go...  Mind you that unlike the amazing photos that you see from pros (or more serious hobbyists than we are) - this is a single shot. Not multi-exposure photos overlaid etc. Just single long exposure photo.  With some imagination, you can see the Milky Way...


Nice shot - I can clearly see the Milky Way


----------



## GDuss

Tonight is the first night I'm using the GOTL without 6x 6BX7s.  Rolled in a pair of Tung Sol 5998s.  I had 1 of these tubes already from the WA3, but probably only had like 20 hours on it, and the seller I bought it from still had more, including a good match.  The other tube showed up today so I am taking a first shot at them (caveat of very low hours on both).  With a Tung Sol BGRP 12SN7.  Tung Sol's all around.  So, the power and low end of the 6BX7s isn't there, but who cares?  This is equally great, but in a different way.  I think I've heard people describe the 5998 pair as more airy, ethereal, detailed, wider stage.  Seems to be all true so far.  I almost want to use the word haunting for the sound, it's strange.  I can't really describe it.  And almost 3D, instruments coming from all over.  The engaging tone is still there, maybe more so, or maybe just different.  It's hard to get any work done because my focus stays on the guitars (plus I'm posting on Head-Fi).  They just sound so right.  I'd say this is anther winning combo for the GOTL and the Aeolus.  But I could see where this might get too bright and crisp on another headphone.  And it's not like there is no bass with this combo, it's very much there, just not like 6x 6BX7s.

The other thing I found out is that I should really clean new tubes (new to me) before using them in the GOTL.  I put in the 2 5998s, turned on the amp, and only 1 of them lit up.  So I turned off the amp, swapped the position of the 5998s, and tried again.  The same tube still didn't go.  Took it out, plugged in the WA3 and tried that tube there.  Bingo, it worked.  But those sockets are super tight, so I think what happened is plugging into that amp cleaned the pins.  Took out the new 5998, cleaned the pins with isopropyl alcohol and a q-tip, and then back in the GOTL.  That did it, then both 5998s were going.

Additional thoughts:  now I have the HD650 to plug in when I get new tubes (as a sacrificial tube tester) and I have the WA3 to clean new tubes before I use them in the GOTL .  Sorry WA3, just kidding, that's not fair.  But it's also not a fair fight with GOTL.  Sorry 650 too, I still like you.

Lastly, I took a page from @mordy and put stickers on each of the 6BX7s when I took them out so I could mark what position they were in.  They'll be back at some point, in their same slots.


----------



## Monsterzero

GDuss said:


> Tonight is the first night I'm using the GOTL without 6x 6BX7s.  Rolled in a pair of Tung Sol 5998s.  I had 1 of these tubes already from the WA3, but probably only had like 20 hours on it, and the seller I bought it from still had more, including a good match.  The other tube showed up today so I am taking a first shot at them (caveat of very low hours on both).  With a Tung Sol BGRP 12SN7.  Tung Sol's all around.  So, the power and low end of the 6BX7s isn't there, but who cares?  This is equally great, but in a different way.  I think I've heard people describe the 5998 pair as more airy, ethereal, detailed, wider stage.  Seems to be all true so far.  I almost want to use the word haunting for the sound, it's strange.  I can't really describe it.  And almost 3D, instruments coming from all over.  The engaging tone is still there, maybe more so, or maybe just different.  It's hard to get any work done because my focus stays on the guitars (plus I'm posting on Head-Fi).  They just sound so right.  I'd say this is anther winning combo for the GOTL and the Aeolus.  But I could see where this might get too bright and crisp on another headphone.  And it's not like there is no bass with this combo, it's very much there, just not like 6x 6BX7s.
> 
> The other thing I found out is that I should really clean new tubes (new to me) before using them in the GOTL.  I put in the 2 5998s, turned on the amp, and only 1 of them lit up.  So I turned off the amp, swapped the position of the 5998s, and tried again.  The same tube still didn't go.  Took it out, plugged in the WA3 and tried that tube there.  Bingo, it worked.  But those sockets are super tight, so I think what happened is plugging into that amp cleaned the pins.  Took out the new 5998, cleaned the pins with isopropyl alcohol and a q-tip, and then back in the GOTL.  That did it, then both 5998s were going.
> 
> ...


Last night my amp was silent,as in no noise when I shut it off. Tonight there was a loud hum in the left channel. Pulled the Ken Rad,cleaned it with fine grit sand paper,re-seated the 6BX7s...and silent again. Sometimes alcohol wont get the hum out,so i suggest in investing in some sandpaper just in case.

Yes,the 5998s are vaunted for a reason. They wont slam like the 6bx7s,but that staging is unreal  If you enjoy wide staging with more slam(not as much as 6bx7s,but more than 5998s)look into a pair of Bendix 6080s.


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> Last night my amp was silent,as in no noise when I shut it off. Tonight there was a loud hum in the left channel. Pulled the Ken Rad,cleaned it with fine grit sand paper,re-seated the 6BX7s...and silent again. Sometimes alcohol wont get the hum out,so i suggest in investing in some sandpaper just in case.
> 
> Yes,the 5998s are vaunted for a reason. They wont slam like the 6bx7s,but that staging is unreal  If you enjoy wide staging with more slam(not as much as 6bx7s,but more than 5998s)look into a pair of Bendix 6080s.



Sandpaper was going to be my next option, but I was hoping to not need it, as honestly I wasn’t sure that was ok to do. Glad it’s not a problem assuming it’s done gently. I’ll probably do that when they come out though, whenever that may be. 

Bendix 6080 is now on the list for when my wallet recovers and I can drink Brunello again.


----------



## gibosi

GDuss said:


> Sandpaper was going to be my next option, but I was hoping to not need it, as honestly I wasn’t sure that was ok to do. Glad it’s not a problem assuming it’s done gently. I’ll probably do that when they come out though, whenever that may be.
> 
> Bendix 6080 is now on the list for when my wallet recovers and I can drink Brunello again.



I sand the pins of every tube that comes in my door. And as long as you don't rip the pins off, you don't have to be all that gentle. lol


----------



## UntilThen

DelsFan said:


> So, a question prompted by a photo from a long-ago post:  Is it common with tube-based amplifiers (at least when the tubes are exposed) to mount the tube sockets to the top of the amplifier casing, and then essentially build everything else around them and attach them to the... top?  Essentially, in the end most of the electronics are hanging from the top of the casing, rather than "sitting" on the bottom?  It seems the DNA Stellaris is built this way also.



Thanks for digging up my old photo. Some days I can't remember what I've post in Elise, Euforia, La Figaro 339 and this Glenn Studio thread. Life is beautiful when you're in this audio hobby.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> That sounds quite nice, would love to see pictures, I just want a single bonsai though, my home isn't big enough for 500.



Only the Sydney Rock Orchids left which is a pity. I had so many varieties. Now I just don't have time to look after it as I am in Canberra working. Here are some photos taken this year.

My backyard a nice reserve behind and a large deck. Cavoodle is in the picture.
 

The fully flowered Sydney Rock Orchid in a big pot.
 

This Sydney Rock Orchid grows on a sawn off fern stump.
 

This orchid just grows on my rock wall off the swimming pool.
 

Some of the smaller pots left.


----------



## nishan99

Has anyone tried the GOTL as pre amp for speakers with multiple driver tubes? was it good?


----------



## UntilThen

nishan99 said:


> Has anyone tried the GOTL as pre amp for speakers with multiple driver tubes? was it good?



Mordy is using his GOTL primarily as a preamp into his amp to drive speakers. As far as I know, Mordy is very happy with the GOTL as a preamp. He can't stop talking about his tube combinations with it.  Several others have GOTL with preamp out too.


----------



## UntilThen

Photo shoot on the deck the day HD800 and Yggdrasil came home 2 years ago.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 8, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Here you go...  Mind you that unlike the amazing photos that you see from pros (or more serious hobbyists than we are) - this is a single shot. Not multi-exposure photos overlaid etc. Just single long exposure photo.  With some imagination, you can see the Milky Way...


Hey am I the only one who noticed there seems to be some sort of shooting star or otherwise inexplicable phenomena in this?



UntilThen said:


> Don't forget the jokes ! (...)_"_



I've just learned about the new rule: you have to be at least as old as the tubes you buy, otherwize you have to sell them. Well then I guess the few who aren't old enough to own these tubes will earn an overnight fortune


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Here you go...  Mind you that unlike the amazing photos that you see from pros (or more serious hobbyists than we are) - this is a single shot. Not multi-exposure photos overlaid etc. Just single long exposure photo.  With some imagination, you can see the Milky Way...



Great pic!  You can see the constellations Cassiopeia, Cygnus, Cepheus, Lyra, and Aquila as well  they all lie along the Milky Way.

Is that a Joshua tree?  I went to Joshua Tree National Park a few years ago with friends, amazing place.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Only the Sydney Rock Orchids left which is a pity. I had so many varieties. Now I just don't have time to look after it as I am in Canberra working. Here are some photos taken this year.
> 
> My backyard a nice reserve behind and a large deck. Cavoodle is in the picture.
> 
> ...



Very nice, your home is an oasis  any pictures of your contortionist?


----------



## Wes S

As someone who can't even go to top of a


Monsterzero said:


> Last night my amp was silent,as in no noise when I shut it off. Tonight there was a loud hum in the left channel. Pulled the Ken Rad,cleaned it with fine grit sand paper,re-seated the 6BX7s...and silent again. Sometimes alcohol wont get the hum out,so i suggest in investing in some sandpaper just in case.
> 
> Yes,the 5998s are vaunted for a reason. They wont slam like the 6bx7s,but that staging is unreal  If you enjoy wide staging with more slam(not as much as 6bx7s,but more than 5998s)look into a pair of Bendix 6080s.


Bendix 6080 is the only power tube I use in my Crack, and I have a cherry pair ready, for if and when I ever get a GOTL.  The air and separation, great dynamics/impact and bass, is perfection, with the Bendix 6080. A big thanks to Stavros, for all my Bendix!


----------



## UntilThen

Wes S said:


> Bendix 6080 is the only power tube I use in my Crack, and I have a cherry pair ready, for if and when I ever get a GOTL.  The air and separation, great dynamics/impact and bass, is perfection, with the Bendix 6080. A big thanks to Stavros, for all my Bendix!



Stavros has been wonderful in the short time that I've known him.


----------



## Wes S

UntilThen said:


> Stavros has been wonderful in the short time that I've known him.


He really is one of the nicest people, I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with.


----------



## whirlwind

Wes S said:


> He really is one of the nicest people, I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with.




Yes sir.  Great person with great tubes.

Bendix 6080 and Mullard ECC32 is my go to with Atticus when listening to GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Very nice, your home is an oasis  any pictures of your contortionist?



Thanks mate. Unfortunately I'm hardly home these days. I feel like a travelling Wilbury.  You'll see a clip of the travelling Wilburys below.  Wonderful group of very talented musicians.



I don't have a picture of my contortionist now but my fond memory of it is in the tree Yggdrasil. So whilst I don't have my bonsai now, I have Yggdrasil. It will remind me of my previous love.


----------



## UntilThen

I've always been curious about Woo Audio Wa22. I've audition it once at Addicted To Audio when I was buying Ragnarok. In the 20 minutes I spend with the Wa22, I felt it was pretty good but not outstanding - it had only stock tubes !!!

I'm also a believer that amps review must include comparison with similar price amps, even if they are of different design. Such as OTL vs SET, etc. I would never have paid the full price for a Wa22. It's AUD$3799 at Addicted To Audio. However this mint condition Wa22 was shoved into my face at a begging price of AUD$1550. I couldn't refuse. If I didn't like it, I could move it on without losing money. So I got it home with just stock tubes, even though the seller has better tubes to sell me. I told him I already have a lot of good tubes. 

So it's home now and I've been listening to it for nearly 2 hours. I gave it very good tubes from my collection. GEC U52 as rectifier, Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome top as drivers and Tung Sol 5998 as power tubes. For the love of Mary Poppins, this Wa22 with Verite sounded amazing to my ears - so clear and sweet !!! No hum, no crackles, no noise. Incredible. This is a used but mint unit. For the price, it's incredible value.

I won't do any serious comparisons between GOTL vs Studio Six vs Wa22 yet. It's still early days but I will compare them after 1 month of living with these amps. Yggdrasil as input, Verite and HD800 as headphones. Wa22 is connected to Yggdrasil via xlr balanced cables and my headphone jack is also xlr terminated and plug into Wa22 xlr output.

I like tube amp rolling a lot more than rolling tubes. It's quite obvious ! Now I just need Berlin to make it a foursome.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 8, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I've always been curious about Woo Audio Wa22. I've audition it once at Addicted To Audio when I was buying Ragnarok. In the 20 minutes I spend with the Wa22, I felt it was pretty good but not outstanding - it had only stock tubes !!!
> 
> I'm also a believer that amps review must include comparison with similar price amps, even if they are of different design. Such as OTL vs SET, etc. I would never have paid the full price for a Wa22. It's AUD$3799 at Addicted To Audio. However this mint condition Wa22 was shoved into my face at a begging price of AUD$1550. I couldn't refuse. If I didn't like it, I could move it on without losing money. So I got it home with just stock tubes, even though the seller has better tubes to sell me. I told him I already have a lot of good tubes.
> 
> ...




This should be an enjoyable 10 plus minutes of listening for you with your new toy Matt.
Not positive this link will work.

https://jbonamassa.com/eblast/2019/sunday-cup-of-joe/episode40/index-send.html?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTWpjd05XVTVZekJsTkdRdyIsInQiOiJYeHhHd3lOUVlORjJDNDNQYTFIVWxuY1htZHBBVkNFRExjVDdVczZ3dTRWeE1rQlNRTWUzUlpCaElHNFJXZkJQbzB3bVwvcEcyb1p3aTJGM0RSSFF4Q2c4K1B4N1crNjNvZ0ZqUkxaRmZkRjBNRERLd2lKTVdFV3FFSTdCSVN4VUEifQ==


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> This should be an enjoyable 10 plus minutes of listening for you with your new toy Matt.
> Not positive this link will work.



Omg I thought you were selling me some Joe's T-Shirts but the link works ! The music's amazing and Joe's guitar works shines through Verite driven by the Wa22.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I've always been curious about Woo Audio Wa22. I've audition it once at Addicted To Audio when I was buying Ragnarok. In the 20 minutes I spend with the Wa22, I felt it was pretty good but not outstanding - it had only stock tubes !!!
> 
> I'm also a believer that amps review must include comparison with similar price amps, even if they are of different design. Such as OTL vs SET, etc. I would never have paid the full price for a Wa22. It's AUD$3799 at Addicted To Audio. However this mint condition Wa22 was shoved into my face at a begging price of AUD$1550. I couldn't refuse. If I didn't like it, I could move it on without losing money. So I got it home with just stock tubes, even though the seller has better tubes to sell me. I told him I already have a lot of good tubes.
> 
> ...



Seems the Australian used audio market is full of good deals, congrats!


----------



## Zachik

DecentLevi said:


> Hey am I the only one who noticed there seems to be some sort of shooting star or otherwise inexplicable phenomena in this?


I think it was an airplane flying overhead. Shooting star would have been much faster, and thus leave a longer and fainter trail. Most photos were in the 20-30 seconds exposure, if memory serves me right.



L0rdGwyn said:


> Great pic! You can see the constellations Cassiopeia, Cygnus, Cepheus, Lyra, and Aquila as well  they all lie along the Milky Way.
> 
> Is that a Joshua tree? I went to Joshua Tree National Park a few years ago with friends, amazing place.



Absolutely a Joshua tree!  Been framing the shot to include it in, very much on purpose   I think it adds a lot.  In fact, I have other photos in which I used a flashlight to illuminate the tree for a couple seconds during the long exposure. The result was night sky pretty much the same, with the tree being fully illuminated and lush green. All in 1 photo, with no photoshop trickery, and no multi-photo stacking


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Seems the Australian used audio market is full of good deals, congrats!



A lot of audio enthusiasts buys expensive gear and then upgrade and they sell off their stuff cheap ! Like me for instance. Bought Ragnarok at AUD$2900 and sold it at AUD$1800 in less than a year. So yeah the local forum classified is a gold mine but a dangerous one too. There are too many good stuff to tempt you. So I should stop looking.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Seems the Australian used audio market is full of good deals, congrats!


Yeah - what a deal !!!
Congrats @UntilThen


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 8, 2019)

'tis a new tube day, straight from Japan 

First up, a quad of Nippon Electric 6AS7G, one of the best 6AS7 I have heard, cost me $20.  A pair will be going to @2359glenn .  Good news, they all are free of shorts, test 105-110%, and are very quiet.

 

Next up are a pair of Japanese TEN 6AS7G, first time with these tubes for me.  Unfortunately, the getter on one is clearly depleted, and sure enough, it is gassy.  Japanese sellers are terrible about testing tubes I have found, but they only cost me $25.  I tested my luck and listened for 10 seconds on the HD650, but that's it.  These are some good sounding tubes, will be getting another pair or single to make a pair, they show up often.



Last, the real prize, a quad of Fivre 6C5G.  Unlike my used pair that I bought from Italy, these all test NOS and are dead silent.  Amazing tubes, one of the best 6J5 types, right up there with the GEC L63.  Paid $100 for the quad, which is a steal, IMO.  Seller did not know their brand, but I identified them by their bases and internals, can actually make out "Fivre" just barely on one of the tubes.  I was also able to replace my noisy one with one of these four with identical construction, so now have two quiet pairs, so happy.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> A lot of audio enthusiasts buys expensive gear and then upgrade and they sell off their stuff cheap ! Like me for instance. Bought Ragnarok at AUD$2900 and sold it at AUD$1800 in less than a year. So yeah the local forum classified is a gold mine but a dangerous one too. There are too many good stuff to tempt you. So I should stop looking.



This is a problem I would like to have.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> 'tis a new tube day, straight from Japan
> 
> First up, a quad of Nippon Electric 6AS7G, one of the best 6AS7 I have heard, cost me $20.  A pair will be going to @2359glenn .  Good news, they all are free of shorts, test 105-110%, and are very quiet.
> 
> ...




Nice find!


----------



## GDuss

Wes S said:


> for if and when I ever get a GOTL



Well let me be among the first to help enable you down that path.  Go for it, it's fantastic with the Aeolus.  I'm sure the Bendix 6080s will be fantastic in the chain as well.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I've always been curious about Woo Audio Wa22. I've audition it once at Addicted To Audio when I was buying Ragnarok. In the 20 minutes I spend with the Wa22, I felt it was pretty good but not outstanding - it had only stock tubes !!!
> 
> I'm also a believer that amps review must include comparison with similar price amps, even if they are of different design. Such as OTL vs SET, etc. I would never have paid the full price for a Wa22. It's AUD$3799 at Addicted To Audio. However this mint condition Wa22 was shoved into my face at a begging price of AUD$1550. I couldn't refuse. If I didn't like it, I could move it on without losing money. So I got it home with just stock tubes, even though the seller has better tubes to sell me. I told him I already have a lot of good tubes.
> 
> ...


As of today I officially relinquish my role as UT's sponsor. In all my years of being a sponsor in A.A. (Amp Anonymous)I have never encountered someone with as strong of an amp buying addiction as UT. 
I hope that someone in this thread will step up in my stead and try to keep UT on a singular path. 
I have failed.



L0rdGwyn said:


> First up, a quad of Nippon Electric 6AS7G, one of the best 6AS7 I have heard, cost me $20. A pair will be going to @2359glenn . Good news, they all are free of shorts, test 105-110%, and are very quiet.



General sound description?


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> I've always been curious about Woo Audio Wa22. I've audition it once at Addicted To Audio when I was buying Ragnarok. In the 20 minutes I spend with the Wa22, I felt it was pretty good but not outstanding - it had only stock tubes !!!
> 
> I'm also a believer that amps review must include comparison with similar price amps, even if they are of different design. Such as OTL vs SET, etc. I would never have paid the full price for a Wa22. It's AUD$3799 at Addicted To Audio. However this mint condition Wa22 was shoved into my face at a begging price of AUD$1550. I couldn't refuse. If I didn't like it, I could move it on without losing money. So I got it home with just stock tubes, even though the seller has better tubes to sell me. I told him I already have a lot of good tubes.
> 
> ...



Congrats UT, very exciting.  But you're going to have to sleep even less now, as you need more time for rolling 3 amps (and a 4th to come) and the necessary tube rolling in each.  How are you going to make it?


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> As of today I officially relinquish my role as UT's sponsor. In all my years of being a sponsor in A.A. (Amp Anonymous)I have never encountered someone with as strong of an amp buying addiction as UT.
> I hope that someone in this thread will step up in my stead and try to keep UT on a singular path.
> I have failed.



I think you may have had an impossible mission.  It's not your fault, please keep trying though.  He might be saveable with just 4 .


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> 'tis a new tube day, straight from Japan
> 
> First up, a quad of Nippon Electric 6AS7G, one of the best 6AS7 I have heard, cost me $20.  A pair will be going to @2359glenn .  Good news, they all are free of shorts, test 105-110%, and are very quiet.
> 
> ...



Congrats on the score.  And I love the tube testing action photo.  I bet those are happy moments when your new tubes end up in the green.


----------



## mordy

nishan99 said:


> Has anyone tried the GOTL as pre amp for speakers with multiple driver tubes? was it good?


Hi n99,
I have been using the GOTL as a preamp for speakers together with a ss amp since I got it. For the past couple of months I am using it with three drivers with excellent results. It appears to me that there is a synergistic effect with the front driver with certain tubes in the C3g sockets - tubes that on their own may not be so great sounding. 
One owner had a resistor burn out but it could have been a dud. All the new GOTL amps come with a 5W resistor to prevent any problems using three drivers. My amp has not had any problems using the 2W(?) resistors it came with (I am using a small 4" fan positioned above the amp pulling air away).
At first I used a pair of EL8 tubes, but ATM I am even more happy now with a pair of TFK EL11 Tubular tubes in the C3g sockets using 4x6080 (RCA/Bendix) as output tubes. The driver is the main one I am rolling. There are many choices and I had good results with various drivers - right now it is a NU 6SL7WGT.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Oct 8, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Next question is.... will a pure silver cable make my Verite Open sound even more revealing....  Is there no end to spending in this hobby.



I recommend Norne for headphone cable upgrades.  Trevor is good people.  GOOD silver cables don't add brightness, despite what a lot of people claim.  More than anything else what they do is make timbre more realistic, which if you ask me should be the first goal of any audio system upgrade.  Everything else takes care of itself if your setup gets instrument timbre right. 

Bad system synergy, badly designed cables and overspending on hi-end cables for midrange systems (which just shines a spotlight on all the things the rest of the gear does wrong) are what feeds this misconception IMO.

edit:  I see this topic got explored quite a bit further down the thread.  This place is busy these days..... if you let yourself get behind you almost can't find time to get yourself caught back up.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> I recommend Norne for headphone cable upgrades.  Trevor is good people.  GOOD silver cables don't add brightness, despite what a lot of people claim.  More than anything else what they do is make timbre more realistic, which if you ask me should be the first goal of any audio system upgrade.  Everything else takes care of itself if your setup gets instrument timbre right.
> 
> Bad system synergy, badly designed cables and overspending on hi-end cables for midrange systems (which just shines a spotlight on all the things the rest of the gear does wrong) are what feeds this misconception IMO.


Hi X255,
Just took a quick look at their offerings - a lot of choices. Anything in particular that you recommend?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I really recommend reaching out to Trevor in this case.  I know what *I* like from his offerings, but I'm not wearing your ears.  

Trevor won't try to upsell you, he'll make sure you get what you need based on the gear you already have and the goal you're trying to achieve with the upgrade.  Just tell him what change you are looking for in the sound and he'll take care of you.

The one thing I'll add here is that I personally am not a big fan SPC stuff (silver plated copper).  I've owned several and none have ever sounded quite right to me.  If the top end stuff like the Silvergarde is a bit more than you're wanting to spend then Trevor has a few copper cables that are really good too for less than half that.


----------



## Wes S

Xcalibur255 said:


> I recommend Norne for headphone cable upgrades.  Trevor is good people.  GOOD silver cables don't add brightness, despite what a lot of people claim.  More than anything else what they do is make timbre more realistic, which if you ask me should be the first goal of any audio system upgrade.  Everything else takes care of itself if your setup gets instrument timbre right.
> 
> Bad system synergy, badly designed cables and overspending on hi-end cables for midrange systems (which just shines a spotlight on all the things the rest of the gear does wrong) are what feeds this misconception IMO.
> 
> edit:  I see this topic got explored quite a bit further down the thread.  This place is busy these days..... if you let yourself get behind you almost can't find time to get yourself caught back up.


You nailed it on the head about Norne Silver wire, with this quote "More than anything else what they do is make timbre more realistic".  My Norne Silvergarde S1, is a pure silver 21awg wire, and this cable is warmer or just as warm, as my Norne Draug 3 (pure copper litz).  Silver does not automatically mean bright, especially when dealing with Norne Audio.  I can't speak for other companies silver, but highly recommend the Norne Silvergarde(1, 2 or 3), for any ZMF headphone.


----------



## attmci (Oct 8, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I've always been curious about Woo Audio Wa22. I've audition it once at Addicted To Audio when I was buying Ragnarok. In the 20 minutes I spend with the Wa22, I felt it was pretty good but not outstanding - it had only stock tubes !!!
> 
> I'm also a believer that amps review must include comparison with similar price amps, even if they are of different design. Such as OTL vs SET, etc. I would never have paid the full price for a Wa22. It's AUD$3799 at Addicted To Audio. However this mint condition Wa22 was shoved into my face at a begging price of AUD$1550. I couldn't refuse. If I didn't like it, I could move it on without losing money. So I got it home with just stock tubes, even though the seller has better tubes to sell me. I told him I already have a lot of good tubes.
> 
> ...


Now you have it
WA22 likes clear top 5998/421A, WE422A, and ECC33 or 35, or B65¿


----------



## chrisdrop

Wes S said:


> *Headphone Cables*_ - _Norne Audio_>Silvergarde S1 / Draug 3 / Therium*,* _Forza AudioWorks>_Claire HPC mkII, _ZMF>_Silver Michanikos, _PW Audio_>No. 5 Japan Version_



Hey @Wes S - I noted that you have a Forza cable in your sig too. How do you think these compare with the 2 Norne cables  you mentioned?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> General sound description?



I'll get back to you in more detail D, but I would say they are quite neutral sounding (my neutral at least), very good air and space, better space and detail than the Chathams if you have heard those.


----------



## Wes S

chrisdrop said:


> Hey @Wes S - I noted that you have a Forza cable in your sig too. How do you think these compare with the 2 Norne cables  you mentioned?


Hey there!  The Forza cables are very nice, and a great middle ground, for price to performance.  The Norne are a bit nicer, and better all around, but also cost quite a bit more.  I would say, if you are on a budget, the Forza can't be beat.  Forza is also usually quite fast, from start to finish, as in it only took 2 weeks to get the cables.  If you want the best, and are willing to wait, or find a used one in the Classifieds, then Norne Audio is the way to go.  The one thing about the Forza cables that really jumps out at me, is how light, flexible, and microphonic free they are.  Cables are tricky when trying to compare them, so I won't go into the sonic differences.


----------



## OctavianH

attmci said:


> Now you have it
> WA22 likes clear top 5998/421A, WE422A, and ECC33 or 35, or B65¿



What is the difference soundwise between 5998 clear top and chrome top? Is there any difference between 5998 clear top and 421A?

PS. I would be very interested to know more about WA22 vs GOTL vs F.A. amps. I had a few months ago the chance to buy a WA22 black at around 1150 EUR re-sealed (returned by other buyer, but new) and I haven't bought it. Since then I thought about it several times, so ... I would like to know more about it.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Now you have it
> WA22 likes clear top 5998/421A, WE422A, and ECC33 or 35, or B65¿


Expensive taste.......


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> 'tis a new tube day, straight from Japan
> 
> First up, a quad of Nippon Electric 6AS7G, one of the best 6AS7 I have heard, cost me $20.  A pair will be going to @2359glenn .  Good news, they all are free of shorts, test 105-110%, and are very quiet.
> 
> ...



Mesh plates are cool!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Mesh plates are cool!


Is it stamped metal or real mesh? - can't tell from picture.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> Mesh plates are cool!



I thought the same thing when I first saw them, but they actually aren't plates, they are internal shields grounded via pin 1.  The plates are hiding underneath.

No pin 1 on my adapter though, so they are just for looks


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Now you have it
> WA22 likes clear top 5998/421A, WE422A, and ECC33 or 35, or B65¿



This is what I'll do. I'll polish the chrome off the 5998 and make it a clear top. I'll write WE422A on the Cossor 53ku and I'll use one pair of Tung Sol 6f8g bgrp or I could mix ECC33 and Sylvania 6sn7w metal base. 

Get a pair of B65? Over my dead body.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> As of today I officially relinquish my role as UT's sponsor. In all my years of being a sponsor in A.A. (Amp Anonymous)I have never encountered someone with as strong of an amp buying addiction as UT.
> I hope that someone in this thread will step up in my stead and try to keep UT on a singular path.
> I have failed.



Aren't you going with me further on this tube amp discovery journey? There's still lots more headphone tube amps to discover. EC Zana Deux Super, DNA Stratus, EC Studio, DNA Stellaris, Glenn 300b. I need a sponsor.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I recommend Norne for headphone cable upgrades.  Trevor is good people.  GOOD silver cables don't add brightness, despite what a lot of people claim.  More than anything else what they do is make timbre more realistic, which if you ask me should be the first goal of any audio system upgrade.  Everything else takes care of itself if your setup gets instrument timbre right.
> 
> Bad system synergy, badly designed cables and overspending on hi-end cables for midrange systems (which just shines a spotlight on all the things the rest of the gear does wrong) are what feeds this misconception IMO.
> 
> edit:  I see this topic got explored quite a bit further down the thread.  This place is busy these days.....* if you let yourself get behind you almost can't find time to get yourself caught back up*.



Thanks Tyrell !!! Now I just need to visit Ken Jie and steal his Norne silver cable. I've lusted after that for a long time since I saw his photo. In fact this photo inspire me to get the Verite Pheasant Wood. Now I only have to get the cable to complete it. You hear that @UsoppNoKami  ?

I don't blame you on having difficulty catching up with the mountains of posts in this thread. I can't catch up either !


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Congrats UT, very exciting.  But you're going to have to sleep even less now, as you need more time for rolling 3 amps (and a 4th to come) and the necessary tube rolling in each.  How are you going to make it?



Sleep? Make hay while the sun shine ! Did you not notice that I got up at 6am today instead of 3am? That's sleeping soundly with the 3rd tube amp arrival.



GDuss said:


> I think you may have had an impossible mission.  It's not your fault, please keep trying though.  He might be saveable with just 4 .



You're my man! I'll stop at 4 because it's Fab 4 or the Beatles. Anymore and it will be heresy.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> PS. I would be very interested to know more about WA22 vs GOTL vs F.A. amps.



My unbiased review will come next year after I get Berlin. Although having sold off Elise and Euforia, I can only go from memory but I've use those amps long enough that it left an imprint in my mind. Similarly for La Figaro 339 which is still with my son.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> That's sleeping soundly with the 3rd tube amp arrival.



Does having additional tube amps helps you sleep better?  I didn't know that was a side effect.  Might have to look into this.  Maybe there is insurance coverage for the insomnia cure.  I'm determined to get the next amp paid for somehow, whether grant funding or insurance reimbursement.  I have no other options at this point.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Does having additional tube amps helps you sleep better?  I didn't know that was a side effect.  Might have to look into this.  Maybe there is insurance coverage for the insomnia cure.  I'm determined to get the next amp paid for somehow, whether grant funding or insurance reimbursement.  I have no other options at this point.



Of course. I went to bed last night at 2am ! So I had 4 hours of luxurious sleep and I've to do a presentation today. I won't be talking about my project but I'll be talking about the benefits of 3 gorgeous sounding tube amps. 

I've been plugging my headphone jack into each of the 3 amps and they are just so beautiful sounding ! So much so, the Sansui AU-717 has been removed from the rack to make space. Speakers are not connected now. Verite Open is my speakers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I didn't buy any Woo amps today...heck I don't even WANT another amp!!!

But I did stumble across a pair of RCA coin base 6BX7 tubes in a used electronics store today:



Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> I'm determined to get the next amp



You got my ears now. What would the next amp be? Do tell.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> Does having additional tube amps helps you sleep better?  I didn't know that was a side effect.  Might have to look into this.  Maybe there is insurance coverage for the insomnia cure.  I'm determined to get the next amp paid for somehow, whether grant funding or insurance reimbursement.  I have no other options at this point.



If you have Glenn's OTL...you don't need any other amps!!  You got the bomb, already!  Sleep well, and enjoy music instead of hoarding amps..!!!


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> This is what I'll do. I'll polish the chrome off the 5998 and make it a clear top. I'll write WE422A on the Cossor 53ku and I'll use one pair of Tung Sol 6f8g bgrp or I could mix ECC33 and Sylvania 6sn7w metal base.
> 
> Get a pair of B65? Over my dead body.


. It may work.

You can mix the Brimar cv1988 with a B65.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> . It may work.
> 
> You can mix the Brimar cv1988 with a B65.



Ok I'm curious what tubes you're using on your Wa22.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> You got my ears now. What would the next amp be? Do tell.



Hasn't been identified yet.  But because getting grant funding takes forever, and getting insurance reimbursements takes only slightly less time, I have a while.  Also looks like I already have a sponsor for AA, who is making a good point, thanks @JazzVinyl .


----------



## UntilThen

I see a lot of Wa22 owners using dual 6BL7 to 6as7 adpater for their amp. So 4 x 6BL7 as power tubes. I don't need to do that. I can get 6 x 6BL7 in GOTL. 

For Wa22, I'll be rolling the usual suspects - Tung Sol 5998, Bendix 6080wb, GEC 6080, Mullard 6080, RCA 6as7g, RCA 6080, Svetlana 6h13c, Cetron 7236. That's enough !


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> enjoy music


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Ok I'm curious what tubes you're using on your Wa22.


Those tubes I suggested earlier today. I am no long rolling tubes now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> Those tubes I suggested earlier today. I am no long rolling tubes now.



Only KNOBS!


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> I thought the same thing when I first saw them, but they actually aren't plates, they are internal shields grounded via pin 1.  The plates are hiding underneath.
> 
> No pin 1 on my adapter though, so they are just for looks



That's okay!   They look uber cool 

Points for cool-ness!!


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Aren't you going with me further on this tube amp discovery journey? There's still lots more headphone tube amps to discover. EC Zana Deux Super, DNA Stratus, EC Studio, DNA Stellaris, Glenn 300b. I need a sponsor.


 If I ever get another amp it will be another one of Glenn's creations,perhaps a 300b,or maybe I will see how Berlin turns out and join you on that adventure.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Those tubes I suggested earlier today. I am no long rolling tubes now.



That’s great you have a great tube combination in there. Having heard what a GEC B36 sounds like, the B65 will be just as stellar or at least the price is for a pair.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> If I ever get another amp it will be another one of Glenn's creations,perhaps a 300b,or maybe I will see how Berlin turns out and join you on that adventure.



Ah ha, Berlin is one of a kind. The challenge is finding enough of Telefunken EL11 and EL12 spez NOS tube,

Glenn is not in favour of making 300b amps anymore unfortunately.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> That’s great you have a great tube combination in there. Having heard what a GEC B36 sounds like, the B65 will be just as stellar or at least the price is for a pair.


I used a pair of ECC35 most of the time. Much cheaper than the other ones.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> That’s great you have a great tube combination in there. Having heard what a GEC B36 sounds like, the B65 will be just as stellar or at least the price is for a pair.


Too bad no 12v tubes can be used. You should be able to find something you like.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Ah ha, Berlin is one of a kind. The challenge is finding enough of Telefunken EL11 and EL12 spez NOS tube,
> 
> Glenn is not in favour of making 300b amps anymore unfortunately.



If you really want a 300B I will make it. I am saying if a EL12spez sounds as good with the same power they are allot cheaper.
The EL34 is another good tube I just got a mullard labeled as a westinghouse for $35. Looking for another so I can switch my 300Bs to EL34s.


----------



## Monsterzero (Oct 8, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> If you really want a 300B I will make it. I am saying if a EL12spez sounds as good with the same power they are allot cheaper.
> The EL34 is another good tube I just got a mullard labeled as a westinghouse for $35. Looking for another so I can switch my 300Bs to EL34s.


 Im in no financial position currently to afford an amp of that enormity,but I will be following your comments on how the Berlin turns out,and perhaps down the line I will ask you to build me one as well....or perhaps something else you cook up in your laboratory


----------



## 2359glenn

@L0rdGwyn is sending me a pair of Nippon Electric 6AS7s cant wait to try them.  What a great guy he didn't even charge me.
He will get some special stuff when I build his next amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> @L0rdGwyn is sending me a pair of Nippon Electric 6AS7s cant wait to try them.  What a great guy he didn't even charge me.
> He will get some special stuff when I build his next amp.



That LG....such a suck up!


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> That LG....such a suck up!



Lol, rough crowed here. 

But yeah...he’s a suck up.


----------



## GDuss

Phantaminum said:


> Lol, rough crowed here.
> 
> But yeah...he’s a suck up.



Well let's see what kind of "special stuff" he gets in his next amp.  He may be having the last laugh.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> That LG....such a suck up!



What do you mean.  Somebody can't just be nice. What


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 8, 2019)

Hopefully someone on this forum can vouch for my character lol I have given tubes away before and I will again.  Glenn builds these amps in his spare time, I am not asking for the $15 it cost me.  Depending on how some auctions I am watching go, I may have some more Japanese tubes up for giveaway...stay tuned, except for you @JazzVinyl 

I have thought of offering some Toshiba 6080, but I honestly don't think they sound very good lol, but if someone wants to try them, let me know!  I don't know why I bought three pairs.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hopefully someone on this forum can vouch for my character lol I have given tubes away before and I will again.  Glenn builds these amps in his spare time, I am not asking for the $15 it cost me.  Depending on how some auctions I am watching go, I may have some more Japanese tubes up for giveaway...stay tuned, except for you @JazzVinyl
> 
> I have thought of offering some Toshiba 6080, but I honestly don't think they sound very good lol, but if someone wants to try them, let me know!  I don't know why I bought three pairs.



You don’t need me to vouch for you because you’re kind and generous. I too have given away tubes to those I see needing it.

Being kind and generous is something the world needs more of. So yeah buddy I have your back.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 8, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> What do you mean.  Somebody can't just be nice. What



Sure they can.  I sent @2359glenn a Sylvania 6SN7W, for gratis


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> If you really want a 300B I will make it. I am saying if a EL12spez sounds as good with the same power they are allot cheaper.
> The EL34 is another good tube I just got a mullard labeled as a westinghouse for $35. Looking for another so I can switch my 300Bs to EL34s.



Not going with 300b. I bought all those EL11 and EL12 spez tubes for a purpose and that collection cost a few coins. It will be put to good use in Berlin.


----------



## attmci (Oct 8, 2019)




----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hopefully someone on this forum can vouch for my character lol I have given tubes away before and I will again.  Glenn builds these amps in his spare time, I am not asking for the $15 it cost me.  Depending on how some auctions I am watching go, I may have some more Japanese tubes up for giveaway...stay tuned, except for you @JazzVinyl
> 
> I have thought of offering some Toshiba 6080, but I honestly don't think they sound very good lol, but if someone wants to try them, let me know!  I don't know why I bought three pairs.


Only met @L0rdGwyn at ZMFestivus last weekend for the first time, but he's a really likeable guy!  Plus he did answer some burning questions over PMs in the past.
I for one am glad to see his behavior will get him rewarded, and by Glenn no less


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 8, 2019)

Hey, thanks @Zachik !  I think @JazzVinyl was just pulling my leg anyhow, I will return the favor some day 

My 6J5 adapter is on the road for someone to try these tubes, so I am back in the land of dual triodes.  Giving one of my favorites a listen again, Fivre 6N7G.  Still astonished @mordy 's reflowing-the-solder tricked worked so well, listening with 6BX7 outputs would have been unthinkable in the past with this previously noisy tube, akin to plugging my headphones into a jet turbine, now it sounds fantastic!  Thanks again, mordy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey, thanks @Zachik !  I think @JazzVinyl was just pulling my leg anyhow, I will return the favor some day



Of course I was!  Guess everyone missed that I had already done this for @2359glenn, as well:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2169#post-15234935


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Giving one of my favorites a listen again, Fivre 6N7G.  Still astonished @mordy 's reflowing-the-solder tricked worked so well, listening with 6BX7 outputs would have been unthinkable in the past with this previously noisy tube, akin to plugging my headphones into a jet turbine, now it sounds fantastic!  Thanks again, mordy.



The 6N7 is very special in the GOTL! 
@mordy suggested an NU 6N7 to me, and he was right...it too, is a fantastic driver tube!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 8, 2019)

NU 6N7GT and 6x 6BX7 ‘s



It's actually a 12N7 !!!  NOS, came new in the box, less than $20!!


----------



## heliosphann

You guys are monsters.

Just got caught up with the thread after reading 1000 posts. I thought about putting @UntilThen on my ignore list and halving the post count, but he sometimes (rarely) has something good to contribute...

Felt kinda dirty listening to my Stratus while reading the Glenn thread. Oh well, my blackwood Auteur's sounded great with them!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> The 6N7 is very special in the GOTL!
> @mordy suggested an NU 6N7 to me, and he was right...it too, is a fantastic driver tube!



A 6SN7W that is a kingly gift!

I really like the 6N7, lots of good options and not too expensive (unless you grab a Mullard ECC31).


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> A 6SN7W that is a kingly gift!
> 
> I really like the 6N7, lots of good options and not too expensive (unless you grab a Mullard ECC31).



Waiting on my tube adapter to get in so I can purchase a ECC31 and a few 6N7 and 6N7GT tubes. Been curious how they sound. Visseaux 6N7Gs are supposed to be coming in in the next or so. Hope some good results.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> You guys are monsters


 Easy there man. Theres only one Monster here.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Easy there man. Theres only one Monster here.



What about the quality cables???


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 9, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Waiting on my tube adapter to get in so I can purchase a ECC31 and a few 6N7 and 6N7GT tubes. Been curious how they sound. Visseaux 6N7Gs are supposed to be coming in in the next or so. Hope some good results.



That's exciting!  Can these go in the Teton?  I really like the Visseaux and the ECC31 needs no introduction.  The Fivre straight glass can be gotten for a decent price.  The shouldered are much older and more expensive.  If you can find one for a good price, they are really nice tubes, but the prices on eBay right now are crazy.


----------



## lukeap69

I haven't heard anything from @jelt2359 for some time. What happened to his ultra-hyper-mega-OTL amp?


----------



## Phantaminum

lukeap69 said:


> I haven't heard anything from @jelt2359 for some time. What happened to his ultra-hyper-mega-OTL amp?



He probably received it from Glenn, called it TARDIS and he’s jumping around in time trying to fight off other time lords while listening to Queen.


----------



## DecentLevi

gibosi said:


> I sand the pins of every tube that comes in my door. And as long as you don't rip the pins off, you don't have to be all that gentle. lol


Yup sanding does sound far more effective, especially compared to that oily Deoxit solution that takes all night. And as long as you're not holding the tube from the glass when sanding it.


----------



## lukeap69

Phantaminum said:


> He probably received it from Glenn, called it TARDIS and he’s jumping around in time trying to fight off other time lords while listening to Queen.


Bwahahaha. I'm sure Jason will contact me once his amp has been completed.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> That's exciting!  Can these go in the Teton?  I really like the Visseaux and the ECC31 needs no introduction.  The Fivre straight glass can be gotten for a decent price.  The shouldered are much older and more expensive.  If you can find one for a good price, they are really nice tubes, but the prices on eBay right now are crazy.



As long as you have the right adapter it should work fine. The only thing I can’t put in here is 6SL7s (too bad because I have a nice Tung Sol 6SU7GTY) and some of the 6v smaller signal tubes I used. The L63s sound real nice. Almost got a quad of the metal base Osram L63 but those puppies went for $500+


----------



## nishan99

mordy said:


> Hi n99,
> I have been using the GOTL as a preamp for speakers together with a ss amp since I got it. For the past couple of months I am using it with three drivers with excellent results. It appears to me that there is a synergistic effect with the front driver with certain tubes in the C3g sockets - tubes that on their own may not be so great sounding.
> One owner had a resistor burn out but it could have been a dud. All the new GOTL amps come with a 5W resistor to prevent any problems using three drivers. My amp has not had any problems using the 2W(?) resistors it came with (I am using a small 4" fan positioned above the amp pulling air away).
> At first I used a pair of EL8 tubes, but ATM I am even more happy now with a pair of TFK EL11 Tubular tubes in the C3g sockets using 4x6080 (RCA/Bendix) as output tubes. The driver is the main one I am rolling. There are many choices and I had good results with various drivers - right now it is a NU 6SL7WGT.



Thanks a lot! 
That's very informative


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 9, 2019)

@UntilThen I think you may perhaps enjoy your EL12 Spez in the WA22; as long as it doesn't have some sort of wrong tube shut-off prevention circuit and of course as long as you have a 6AS7 adapter. I also wonder if your 6L6 or KT66 tubes may work good as powers, along with EL11's, 6N7/VT-96 or ECC31/6N7G class drivers - with adapters. Maybe it can be like an early introduction of what Berlin amp may sound like.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> Waiting on my tube adapter to get in so I can purchase a ECC31 and a few 6N7 and 6N7GT tubes. Been curious how they sound. Visseaux 6N7Gs are supposed to be coming in in the next or so. Hope some good results.



I have the Shouldered and GT versions of the Visseaux 6N7...your in for a treat!


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> @UntilThen I think you may perhaps enjoy your EL12 Spez in the WA22; as long as it doesn't have some sort of wrong tube shut-off prevention circuit and of course as long as you have a 6AS7 adapter. I also wonder if your 6L6 or KT66 tubes may work good as powers, along with EL11's, 6N7/VT-96 or ECC31/6N7G class drivers - with adapters. Maybe it can be like an early introduction of what Berlin amp may sound like.



I made a decision not to run tubes not meant for my 3 amps. They will run with the manufacturers recommended tubes and they do sound very good with them.


----------



## UntilThen

I also make a decision to cut down drastically my forum posts here. You may see me pop up in the WA22 thread since I have a vested interest now. So enjoy all !


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> I haven't heard anything from @jelt2359 for some time. What happened to his ultra-hyper-mega-OTL amp?



He never got the Tribute transformers he ordered for it.  Not sure if he paid in advance for them.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> He never got the Tribute transformers he ordered for it.  Not sure if he paid in advance for them.


Oh that's a bad news. Is the project cancelled then?


----------



## 2359glenn

lukeap69 said:


> Oh that's a bad news. Is the project cancelled then?



No if he gets them I will build it.  Or maybe he could go back to Lundahl transformers that I originally wanted to use.
But the custom Tribute's are supposed to be one of the best.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> No if he gets them I will build it.  Or maybe he could go back to Lundahl transformers that I originally wanted to use.
> But the custom Tribute's are supposed to be one of the best.


Hmm. This should be an epic amp. Hope it gets built.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> He never got the Tribute transformers he ordered for it.  Not sure if he paid in advance for them.



Wow....Jason has been waiting on these for a very long time.
These are the Amorphous transformers...correct ?


----------



## 2359glenn

I am not sure it is going on 2 years.


----------



## DecentLevi

Are these TS VT-94D's the best type and worth the price? Or are they redundant if you already have a pristine pair of GEC L63 on the way?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283613364944


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 9, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Are these TS VT-94D's the best type and worth the price? Or are they redundant if you already have a pristine pair of GEC L63 on the way?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/283613364944



Unsure which is "best", but I have a shouldered pair that sound fantastic.  I have spied on that listing as well, internal construction looks the same as my shouldered pair, I am sure they are very good sounding tubes.  The way I look at 6J5 pricing is, what would the equivalent 6SN7 cost?  In this case, probably around $150 or more for a ladder plate Tung-Sol black glass 6SN7.  When you look at it that way, it's a great price!

Here is the post where I discussed them: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1958#post-15152863


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 9, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Depending on how some auctions I am watching go, I may have some more Japanese tubes up for giveaway...stay tuned



Well good news, I won one of the auctions.  Ten Nippon Electric 6080s for $30.  Untested other than filament continuity, so we'll see how many I really won when they arrive, but I suspect I will have some extras, I only need a quad.  Haven't heard the NEC 6080, but I have read some positive impressions and I like the 6AS7G.  At $3 a tube, it's worth a shot.  Those giant copper rods make me hopeful.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well good news, I won one of the auctions.  Ten Nippon Electric 6080s for $30.  Untested other than filament continuity, so we'll see how many I really won when they arrive, but I suspect I will have some extras, I only need a quad.  Haven't heard the NEC 6080, but I have read some positive impressions and I like the 6AS7G.  At $3 a tube, it's worth a shot.  Those giant copper rods make me hopeful.



That's an incredible deal!  Hope they sound as nice as they look!


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> I also make a decision to cut down drastically my forum posts here. You may see me pop up in the WA22 thread since I have a vested interest now. So enjoy all !




 Sure buddy... We believe you. 





L0rdGwyn said:


> Well good news, I won one of the auctions.  Ten Nippon Electric 6080s for $30.  Untested other than filament continuity, so we'll see how many I really won when they arrive, but I suspect I will have some extras, I only need a quad.  Haven't heard the NEC 6080, but I have read some positive impressions and I like the 6AS7G.  At $3 a tube, it's worth a shot.  Those giant copper rods make me hopeful.



Hit me up if you do end up with some extras!


----------



## GDuss

DecentLevi said:


> Yup sanding does sound far more effective, especially compared to that oily Deoxit solution that takes all night. And as long as you're not holding the tube from the glass when sanding it.



I took out the 5998s and sanded the pins using 320 grit sandpaper.  Seemed to work well, just needed to wipe everything down carefully with isopropyl alcohol to get rid of any particles so they don't get into the sockets.  Not sure if 320 grit is the best size, but it seems fine enough to clean the pins but not destroy them.  I've never used Deoxit, but from the sounds of it, sandpaper is just as easy of a process and probably easier to deal with cleanup.


----------



## TylersEclectic

2359glenn said:


> I am not sure it is going on 2 years.


Glenn, how would one go about ordering one of your amps? Or more accurately start researching what pricing and models you are making currently? Thank you for your time! I really enjoyed listening to @L0rdGwyn Glenn amp at “ZMFestivus II” with my new Verite Closed.

cheers!


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> Wow....Jason has been waiting on these for a very long time.
> These are the Amorphous transformers...correct ?


Lundahl does amorphous versions of some (but not all) of their products too.  This is one of those things I would really love to A-B and see if I can hear a difference.  If it affects tone then I suspect it may be worth the cost.


----------



## DecentLevi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Unsure which is "best", but I have a shouldered pair that sound fantastic.  I have spied on that listing as well, internal construction looks the same as my shouldered pair, I am sure they are very good sounding tubes.  The way I look at 6J5 pricing is, what would the equivalent 6SN7 cost?  In this case, probably around $150 or more for a ladder plate Tung-Sol black glass 6SN7.  When you look at it that way, it's a great price!
> 
> Here is the post where I discussed them: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1958#post-15152863


Thanks. Actually I was referring to this post, trying to get something similar to your Sylvania VT-94D's that you said sounded even better than the 6SN7W's. But actually I think this comes closer in construction to your Tung Sol BGRP. Which of those two do you prefer, and why?


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> Lundahl does amorphous versions of some (but not all) of their products too.  This is one of those things I would really love to A-B and see if I can hear a difference.  If it affects tone then I suspect it may be worth the cost.





L0rdGwyn said:


> Well good news, I won one of the auctions.  Ten Nippon Electric 6080s for $30.  Untested other than filament continuity, so we'll see how many I really won when they arrive, but I suspect I will have some extras, I only need a quad.  Haven't heard the NEC 6080, but I have read some positive impressions and I like the 6AS7G.  At $3 a tube, it's worth a shot.  Those giant copper rods make me hopeful.




Yeah, seeing those copper rods is a good sign.


----------



## Monsterzero

Darthpool said:


> Glenn, how would one go about ordering one of your amps? Or more accurately start researching what pricing and models you are making currently? Thank you for your time! I really enjoyed listening to @L0rdGwyn Glenn amp at “ZMFestivus II” with my new Verite Closed.
> 
> cheers!


 Darth,you need to do a @2359glenn (which I just did for you). This thread is very active and unless you @ Glenn he might miss your message.


----------



## TylersEclectic

Monsterzero said:


> Darth,you need to do a @2359glenn (which I just did for you). This thread is very active and unless you @ Glenn he might miss your message.


Ah, oops, thank you for catching that!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks. Actually I was referring to this post, trying to get something similar to your Sylvania VT-94D's that you said sounded even better than the 6SN7W's. But actually I think this comes closer in construction to your Tung Sol BGRP. Which of those two do you prefer, and why?



Hey DL - I haven't done a straight head-to-head with these tubes, so I'm apprehensive to tell you exactly why I like one over the other.  What I will say is the comparison would be analogous to a comparison of the Tung-Sol BGRP and Sylvania 6SN7W metal base, which I have compared.  In the past, I have found myself listening to the Sylvania more often, but it is a real toss-up for me.  I do like the warmth the Tung-Sol brings and I think it probably has the edge on space/separation, but the Sylvania has a cohesion to the sound, a timbre that I think many find addictive.  To me, that its timbre is its strength rather than the technicalities (although it doesn't lack there either).  Sorry, that probably isn't very helpful!  I will try to get back to you on it.

Maybe @whirlwind can tell you which 6J5s he likes more over the next few days, he will have both on hand


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey DL - I haven't done a straight head-to-head with these tubes, so I'm apprehensive to tell you exactly why I like one over the other.  What I will say is the comparison would be analogous to a comparison of the Tung-Sol BGRP and Sylvania 6SN7W metal base, which I have compared.  In the past, I have found myself listening to the Sylvania more often, but it is a real toss-up for me.  I do like the warmth the Tung-Sol brings and I think it probably has the edge on space/separation, but the Sylvania has a cohesion to the sound, a timbre that I think many find addictive.  To me, that its timbre is its strength rather than the technicalities (although it doesn't lack there either).  Sorry, that probably isn't very helpful!  I will try to get back to you on it.
> 
> Maybe @whirlwind can tell you which 6J5s he likes more over the next few days, he will have both on hand



If your looking for great xJ5's...give the NU's a consideration, too:

Still a few of these left:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NATIONAL-UNION-JAN12J5GT-VINTAGE-ELECTRON-VACUUM-TUBE/133188931766


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> Still a few of these left:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NATIONAL-UNION-JAN12J5GT-VINTAGE-ELECTRON-VACUUM-TUBE/133188931766



Someone just bought 2 of them.  Wasn't me.


----------



## 2359glenn

Wow that is a great price for NU guess because it is a 12 volt tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> Darth,you need to do a @2359glenn (which I just did for you). This thread is very active and unless you @ Glenn he might miss your message.



I sent him a PM


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> If your looking for great xJ5's...give the NU's a consideration, too:
> 
> Still a few of these left:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NATIONAL-UNION-JAN12J5GT-VINTAGE-ELECTRON-VACUUM-TUBE/133188931766



I got mine today, thanks JV.  Can't listen yet, but I tested them and they are perfect, 116% and 120% expected plate current, no shorts


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I got mine today, thanks JV.  Can't listen yet, but I tested them and they are perfect, 116% and 120% expected plate current, no shorts



Do you need a adapter I have 2 that I don't use one is from Deyan and one from China on a circuit board


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Do you need a adapter I have 2 that I don't use one is from Deyan and one from China on a circuit board



I'm good thanks, Glenn.  Joe is just borrowing my 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter to give them a spin in his GOTL.


----------



## 2359glenn

Oh just thought you might need one.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Wow that is a great price for NU guess because it is a 12 volt tube.



Yes, my Genius amp builder puts in a 6/12/25 volt SN7 driver switch!!   

LOL

Yes sir, 12v tubes are cheaper, easier to find NOS, and used ones are "less used" than their 6v cousins,

Win Win WIN!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Do you need a adapter I have 2 that I don't use one is from Deyan and one from China on a circuit board



@2359glenn - 

I am interested in the Deyan adapter...have the China one...


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> I got mine today, thanks JV.  Can't listen yet, but I tested them and they are perfect, 116% and 120% expected plate current, no shorts



I had a pair show up today too, which is the reason why today's buyer wasn't me (I bought them on Sunday).  And also a thank you to JV.

Unfortunately I don't have a tube tester, but your test results are very promising.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

GDuss said:


> I had a pair show up today too, which is the reason why today's buyer wasn't me (I bought them on Sunday).  And also a thank you to JV.
> 
> Unfortunately I don't have a tube tester, but your test results are very promising.



They also pass the new-in-box eyeball test  another important variable.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> They also pass the new-in-box eyeball test  another important variable.



I do have eyeballs, so I can do that test.  And agreed, they pass.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> @2359glenn -
> 
> I am interested in the Deyan adapter...have the China one...



OK it's yours
PM me your address


----------



## JazzVinyl

The coin base 6BX7 allows you to see:




Excuse the text on the photo..it's not a 6BL7 it is a Coin Base 6B*X*7...LOL


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> I do have eyeballs, so I can do that test.  And agreed, they pass.



My pair also looked to be absolutely brand new in the box!!  Yeah for being able to run 12v tubes!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> OK it's yours
> PM me your address



PM Sent!  Thanks, Glenn!!


----------



## heliosphann

I'll take the Chinese one @2359glenn if it's not spoke for.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 9, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> If your looking for great xJ5's...give the NU's a consideration, too:
> 
> Still a few of these left:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NATIONAL-UNION-JAN12J5GT-VINTAGE-ELECTRON-VACUUM-TUBE/133188931766


Sounds interesting, but I can't use 12 volt drivers on my upcoming EL amp, not even with adapters I believe. And I don't want a 6/12/25 switch for it because there will already be three to four knobs on the front and more tubes than I can roll. I am still looking for another good pair or two of 6j5's.


----------



## mordy

Hi attmci,
I think you said you have a couple of burnt out 5998 tubes - here I found a new use for them:


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> I'm good thanks, Glenn.  Joe is just borrowing my 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter to give them a spin in his GOTL.



They should be here this evening when I get home from work.....I will listen tonight .


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> They should be here this evening when I get home from work.....I will listen tonight .



I know should get the Nippon Electric 6AS7s today hoping they are as good as the GEC.


----------



## DecentLevi

Sometimes all 'bottles' look the same even when you're sober


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Sure buddy... We believe you.



Didn't I tell you that I'm having a break from posting on this thread? More than a day without posting here. Well I'll be back after Berlin is created... that would be Jan or Feb 2020. Be good and keep the thread alive while I'm gone.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> I think you said you have a couple of burnt out 5998 tubes - here I found a new use for them:


I don't think they are strong enough to hold my cans.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> I know should get the Nippon Electric 6AS7s today hoping they are as good as the GEC.


Nope, they will beat your GEC for sure.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Didn't I tell you that I'm having a break from posting on this thread? More than a day without posting here. Well I'll be back after Berlin is created... that would be Jan or Feb 2020. Be good and keep the thread alive while I'm gone.


Is your hiatus starting now?


----------



## GDuss

DecentLevi said:


> Sometimes all 'bottles' look the same even when you're sober




  There is a lot of talk about 6 packs of bottles around here.


----------



## GDuss

DecentLevi said:


> I don't want a 6/12/25 switch for it because there will already be three to four knobs on the front



The 6/12/25 V switch is on the back, at least on many of the ones I've seen.  So at the very least, you can have it on the back and not crowd the front with another knob.


----------



## JazzVinyl

For those with the GOTL amp who do not have a set of 6x 6BX7’s...

I have an extra set of six that I am willing to send on tour.  

PM me if you would like to audition a set of six 6BX7’s.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> The 6/12/25 V switch is on the back, at least on many of the ones I've seen.  So at the very least, you can have it on the back and not crowd the front with another knob.



I think DL’s planned new amp will be for a select group of  EL tubes and they are all 6 volt.  

My main SN7 ‘driver drawer’ has almost all 12 and 25 volt tubes.   I absolutely love the driver voltage switch feature.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> I think you said you have a couple of burnt out 5998 tubes - here I found a new use for them:



I do like, think I would be tempted to add an LED to light up the innards 

 

.


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> For those with the GOTL amp who do not have a set of 6x 6BX7’s...
> 
> I have an extra set of six that I am willing to send on tour.
> 
> PM me if you would like to audition a set of six 6BX7’s.



And now there will even be 6 packs of bottles on tour 

Very generous of you to do this JV.  Lots of generosity being displayed here lately.  I like the 6x 6BX7 + driver tube combinations I have tried so far, hopefully people who haven't used the combo will now get a chance.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 10, 2019)

GDuss said:


> And now there will even be 6 packs of bottles on tour
> 
> Very generous of you to do this JV.  Lots of generosity being displayed here lately.  I like the 6x 6BX7 + driver tube combinations I have tried so far, hopefully people who haven't used the combo will now get a chance.



Thanks,  GDuss...

"Community" is what it is all about  

6x 6BX7's are in my amp this am...and have the ECC804 driver in.  This driver works extremely well with my SENN cans. 
They fetch details that some other drivers miss.  Went and looked at the tube data for ECC804...and it differs from other dual triode's
in that there is a physical metal shield between the two triode sections, inside the tube.  Not sure if this is what makes it blossom so beautifully, 
but if you have a GOTL, this is a driver, is not to be missed, imho.

Tube data calls it a "Double Triode" instead of a "Dual Triode" due to the added shield.


Cheers!


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> I don't think they are strong enough to hold my cans.


I think they could hold the weight of normal headphones. I once smashed an EL3N tube that had shorted out (faulty adapter) and it took a couple of tries with a hammer to shatter the glass....
Just tried it with a non-working 1939 TFK EL12 tube - works very well holding the cans. Since the tube is ST shaped the headphone (Beyerdynamic T1 Gen 1 at 19oz with cable) rests securely. 
Personally I think this would make for a nice low cost headphone stand.


----------



## JazzVinyl

ECC804 requires an adapter,but is sooo worth it.  Uses the ECC88->6SN7 adapter:


----------



## JazzVinyl

Speaking of "Community"...there is a used electronics store here that is closing.  They have 1000's of used tubes.
Most of the commonly used audio tubes are gone.  But there is a chance that a rare-ish jewel you have been hunting for is still there.
PM me with a list of tubes you have been unable to source and I will go see if he happens to have it:



PS - there are lots of rectifiers...


----------



## JazzVinyl

$2,864.79 USD for a quad:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-Telefun...one-of-rarest-Tubes-6sn7-NOS-NIB/254381690536

Plus shipping!


----------



## 2359glenn

Probably not GZ37 or GZ34


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Probably not GZ37 or GZ34



Snowing to beat the band today, but will go look, tomorrow.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Speaking of "Community"...there is a used electronics store here that is closing.  They have 1000's of used tubes.
> Most of the commonly used audio tubes are gone.  But there is a chance that a rare-ish jewel you have been hunting for is still there.
> PM me with a list of tubes you have been unable to source and I will go see if he happens to have it:
> 
> ...




Oh man ...I think i see a box that says 6L6!!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> $2,864.79 USD for a quad:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-Telefun...one-of-rarest-Tubes-6sn7-NOS-NIB/254381690536
> 
> Plus shipping!


I think the manufacturer is Standard from Sweden. These tubes were heavily reinforced for use in artillery pieces, but I have not heard much about how they sound. Stavros had some but had sold them when I inquired.


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks much to @L0rdGwyn for the demo of his adapter and tubes. Much appreciated brother!

I am listening to the GEC L63.....much thinking about these tubes in my new amp.  Very nice to get to hear them first before deciding.

Listening to Jeff Beck Live At the Hollywood Bowl...what a great gift from God this man is.

  


Crank it up!


----------



## 2359glenn (Oct 10, 2019)

I got the NEC 6AS7s in the mail today put them in my amp right away. One of them is no good gassy it lit up pinkish purple
I shut the amp off right away. It was screaming hot right away bummer was looking forward to using these 

BTW  Keenan I liked the tape.


----------



## whirlwind

Sorry to hear this Glenn, I know how much you were looking forward to hearing these.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Thanks much to @L0rdGwyn for the demo of his adapter and tubes. Much appreciated brother!
> 
> I am listening to the GEC L63.....much thinking about these tubes in my new amp.  Very nice to get to hear them first before deciding.
> 
> ...




Those GEC L63s are the only driver I use now They sound fantastic with the Verite.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> I got the NEC 6AS7s in the mail today put them in my amp right away. One of them is no good gassy it lit up pinkish purple
> I shut the amp off right away. It was screaming hot right away bummer was looking forward to using these
> 
> BTW  Keenan I liked the tape.



No!  They were fine in my amp just Tuesday.  I will send you a replacement, this will not stand 

I was really looking forward to hearing what you thought.


----------



## 2359glenn

You don't have to do that crap happens.
It could have had a rough trip getting here
If you must send one I have to pay the postage !!!!!

Were did you get that tape??


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> You don't have to do that *** happens.
> It could have had a rough trip getting here
> If you must send one I have to pay the postage !!!!!
> 
> Were did you get that tape??



That is a box I had from Music Direct, that is the packing tape they use it is pretty cool.  Maybe if you shot them an email they could get you some.


----------



## carlman14

Anyone know what the current wait time in the queue is? I just passed 4 months in the queue. I'm not in any rush... I just want to set my expectations.


----------



## Zachik

GDuss said:


> Someone just bought 2 of them. Wasn't me.


That was me - got to test the adapter from Deyan...


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Those GEC L63s are the only driver I use now They sound fantastic with the Verite.


Glenn - are these the straight or curved ones?  I see both on eBay, where the curved are double the price (or more)...


----------



## 2359glenn

The ones I use are the curved ones more expensive they cost me $150 for the pair.
Still allot cheaper then the GEC B65 they replace at $400+ each.


----------



## Zachik

Can anyone comment whether the straight bottle GEC L63 are close / similar to the curved ones? They're half priced, and more available it seems...


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> Can anyone comment whether the straight bottle GEC L63 are close / similar to the curved ones? They're half priced, and more available it seems...



You can take my thoughts with a grain of salt but to me the straight tube sounds warmer while the shoulder type feel like they have a bit more extension on the high and not was warm on the low end. Both pairs were not fully burned in.


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> You can take my thoughts with a grain of salt but to me the straight tube sounds warmer while the shoulder type feel like they have a bit more extension on the high and not was warm on the low end. Both pairs were not fully burned in.


Thanks buddy!  
Preferring warmer signature in general, and assuming your not-fully-burned-in experience is not a fluke - I will opt for the cheaper straight bottle


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Can anyone comment whether the straight bottle GEC L63 are close / similar to the curved ones? They're half priced, and more available it seems...



@leftside might have tried both, I only own the gray glass ST shape.  I think those were in my GOTL when you listened to it, Zachi.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> @leftside might have tried both, I only own the gray glass ST shape.  I think those were in my GOTL when you listened to it, Zachi.


You are absolutely right. Having said that, it was 10 minutes and show conditions... So wanted to get some opinions from people who had a more critical listening time with these tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Zachik said:


> Thanks buddy!
> Preferring warmer signature in general, and assuming your not-fully-burned-in experience is not a fluke - I will opt for the cheaper straight bottle



I like 'warmer" tubes, too


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> You are absolutely right. Having said that, it was 10 minutes and show conditions... So wanted to get some opinions from people who had a more critical listening time with these tubes.



Gotcha, yeah I wish I could say, I plan to grab a straight-glass pair at some point just to compare, if that happens to be before you make a purchase, I will let you know


----------



## 2359glenn

With the Verite open a little bit brighter tube is a good thing. When listening to the Auteur I use the EL3N for the driver
With a 6J5 to EL3N adapter.


----------



## Monsterzero

I have found that the tube rolls that sound good for the Auteur also sound good on the VC,but not the VO.


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> With the Verite open a little bit brighter tube is a good thing.



Agreed. I like to have at least one tube with some good top end extension with the Verite.


----------



## JazzVinyl

All..
Snow abated, so I visited the closing used electronics store this evening.  None of the requested tubes were there...sorry guys.  

He had bins for them...but empty, none to be had.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> All..
> Snow abated, so I visited the closing used electronics store this evening.  None of the requested tubes were there...sorry guys.
> 
> He had bins for them...but empty, none to be had.


 Thanks for looking JV


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Is your hiatus starting now?



My hiatus started 2 days ago until you send this message. Now after replying I will go back to my hiatus. Actually it’s not a hiatus from Head-Fi because I am participating on other threads.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> @leftside might have tried both, I only own the gray glass ST shape.  I think those were in my GOTL when you listened to it, Zachi.


They are all great tubes, but my slight preference is grey glass ST shape > straight D getter > straight halo getter. The grey glass ST are some of my favorite driver tubes, right up there with some of the other well known favorites like the ECC32.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> My hiatus started 2 days ago until you send this message. Now after replying I will go back to my hiatus. Actually it’s not a hiatus from Head-Fi because I am participating on other threads.


Oh, I see. Can you resist not posting here? I mean this is the coolest thread in head-fi.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Oh, I see. Can you resist not posting here? I mean this is the coolest thread in head-fi.



Arnold, when I came on this thread in late 2017, there were only a few participants and you were one of them. Those were the good days. I don't stay in a thread because it's the coolest thread. I stay because I think I have something to contribute. I've said all that needs to be said for GOTL from my point of view. So it's hiatus time till Berlin arrival or time to discuss Studio Six and Woo Audio WA22 and Verite in their respective threads. Cheers.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Oh, I see. Can you resist not posting here? I mean this is the coolest thread in head-fi.



For disturbing me, you get one post. 

This weekend will be a time of using Studio Six, WA22 and GOTL with Verite Open and HD800. Don't think I have so much fun for a very long time.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> For disturbing me, you get one post.
> 
> This weekend will be a time of using Studio Six, WA22 and GOTL with Verite Open and HD800. Don't think I have so much fun for a very long time.


That is indeed fun. In one of our local meets in the past, I have listened with my Darna, a WA22 and a two-piece (not bikini) TOTL WA amp which model number I can't remember. I was a bit underwhelmed by the WA22. Perhaps the tubes used were not the best for my HD800SD. The TOTL WA amp was very good but I preferred the synergy of my HD800SD with my Darna. This is all preference of course. Many local audiophiles were impressed with Glenn's amp. I wasn't surprised by that really. I have always believed that GOTL can fight with the big boys.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> That is indeed fun. In one of our local meets in the past, I have listened with my Darna, a WA22 and a two-piece (not bikini) TOTL WA amp which model number I can't remember. I was a bit underwhelmed by the WA22. Perhaps the tubes used were not the best for my HD800SD. The TOTL WA amp was very good but I preferred the synergy of my HD800SD with my Darna. This is all preference of course. Many local audiophiles were impressed with Glenn's amp. I wasn't surprised by that really. I have always believed that GOTL can fight with the big boys.



I wasn't that impressed with the WA22 the first time I heard it at Addicted To Audio too because it had poor stock tubes. I was given stock tubes too but I didn't bother with them. Now the WA22 has GEC U52, Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp and Bendix 6080wb and GOTL has Mullard ECC33 with 6 x GE 6BX7gt. 

Both sounding great with Verite Open and HD800. Once again I'm left with a very hard decision picking one over the other. I know if I add Studio Six to the mix, it will be a 3 way contest that will be hard to pick a winner. Such is the calibre of amps here. No bias from me. My appraisal as I hear it. There's no need to favour one over the other because they are all mine and as I have no sponsorship deals, my opinions are just simply that.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> I wasn't that impressed with the WA22 the first time I heard it at Addicted To Audio too because it had poor stock tubes. I was given stock tubes too but I didn't bother with them. Now the WA22 has GEC U52, Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp and Bendix 6080wb and GOTL has Mullard ECC33 with 6 x GE 6BX7gt.
> 
> Both sounding great with Verite Open and HD800. Once again I'm left with a very hard decision picking one over the other. I know if I add Studio Six to the mix, it will be a 3 way contest that will be hard to pick a winner. Such is the calibre of amps here. No bias from me. My appraisal as I hear it. There's no need to favour one over the other because they are all mine and as I have no sponsorship deals, my opinions are just simply that.


Good to hear. It was unfair for the WA22 when I auditioned it because there was no tube rolling opportunity during that time. Enjoy comparing your three amps. However, there should be a winner. We don't settle for triple tie here.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Enjoy comparing your three amps. However, there should be a winner. We don't settle for triple tie here.



It's more a case of enjoying my music with these 3 amps because all of them sound so good. Seriously at this point, it would be impossible for me to loose any of these amps. I have to have them all. They are just that good with Verite Open and HD800. 

When Berlin comes, I hope it won't be such a close contest or I'll be tearing my hair off. Anyway this weekend is packed with outdoor programmes for me. So much as I would like to be buried in my cave with these gorgeous sounding amps and headphones, I must go out at some point. 

Now you have really broken my hiatus. It's really your fault Arnold !


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> It's more a case of enjoying my music with these 3 amps because all of them sound so good. Seriously at this point, it would be impossible for me to loose any of these amps. I have to have them all. They are just that good with Verite Open and HD800.
> 
> When Berlin comes, I hope it won't be such a close contest or I'll be tearing my hair off. Anyway this weekend is packed with outdoor programmes for me. So much as I would like to be buried in my cave with these gorgeous sounding amps and headphones, I must go out at some point.
> 
> Now you have really broken my hiatus. It's really your fault Arnold !


I think you have realised by now my hidden motive of breaking your self-imposed hiatus. 

But really, you should have a number 1 favourite. We don't accept safe answers here!


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> I think you have realised by now my hidden motive of breaking your self-imposed hiatus.
> 
> But really, you should have a number 1 favourite. We don't accept safe answers here!



Yeah you sneaky bus tard !  Now my one post becomes like 5 or 6 posts. I'll be banned soon or @heliosphann will really put me on ignore. 

There's no safe answers here. When I use GOTL I'm like 'This is super amazing !!!'. Then I swap the headphone jack to WA22 and I'm like ' Are you kidding me ??? !!!' Such is my dilemma. I have to toss a coin. But this is before Studio Six enters the fray. How do you toss a coin for 3 amps? Maybe after a month I might be able to pick a favourite .....


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Yeah you sneaky bus tard !  Now my one post becomes like 5 or 6 posts. I'll be banned soon or @heliosphann will really put me on ignore.
> 
> There's no safe answers here. When I use GOTL I'm like 'This is super amazing !!!'. Then I swap the headphone jack to WA22 and I'm like ' Are you kidding me ??? !!!' Such is my dilemma. I have to toss a coin. But this is before Studio Six enters the fray. How do you toss a coin for 3 amps? Maybe after a month I might be able to pick a favourite .....


Okay, I will mark my calendar. One month from now, I will ask you again. But expect me to disturb you from your hiatus from time to time.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Okay, I will mark my calendar. One month from now, I will ask you again. But expect me to disturb you from your hiatus from time to time.


 
I know where you live. I'm be coming for revenge.  

You're champ Arnold. It's been a while since we started talking. Have a great weekend !


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> I know where you live. I'm be coming for revenge.
> 
> You're champ Arnold. It's been a while since we started talking. Have a great weekend !


Thanks Matt. I always keep cold beer in my fridge. They'll be my weapon of choice when you come for your revenge! Have a great weekend too.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I wasn't that impressed with the WA22 the first time I heard it at Addicted To Audio too because it had poor stock tubes. I was given stock tubes too but I didn't bother with them. Now the WA22 has GEC U52, Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp and Bendix 6080wb and GOTL has Mullard ECC33 with 6 x GE 6BX7gt.
> 
> Both sounding great with Verite Open and HD800. Once again I'm left with a very hard decision picking one over the other. I know if I add Studio Six to the mix, it will be a 3 way contest that will be hard to pick a winner. Such is the calibre of amps here. No bias from me. My appraisal as I hear it. There's no need to favour one over the other because they are all mine and as I have no sponsorship deals, my opinions are just simply that.



Wait until you get the Berlin with Lundahl output transformers.  It will walk over all 3 of those amps.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Wait until you get the Berlin with Lundahl output transformers.  It will walk over all 3 of those amps.



Amen ! I'm looking forward to it ! I need a bigger rack !


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Wait until you get the Berlin with Lundahl output transformers.  It will walk over all 3 of those amps.



The Lundahl output transformers will make a big difference in my layman's opinion.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> The Lundahl output transformers will make a big difference in my layman's opinion.



You will be supersized by the sound of a SET with Lundahl transformers.  I prefer the sound of the EL3N over the OTL It is my best amp for the price.
Sounds as good as the 300B but allot cheaper.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You will be supersized by the sound of a SET with Lundahl transformers.  I prefer the sound of the EL3N over the OTL It is my best amp for the price.
> Sounds as good as the 300B but allot cheaper.



I know. This Japanese designed tube amp will have the option to upgrade to Lundahl transformers. Such is the fame of these Swedish made transformers. You know the good parts to use.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> You will be supersized by the sound of a SET with Lundahl transformers.  I prefer the sound of the EL3N over the OTL It is my best amp for the price.
> Sounds as good as the 300B but allot cheaper.




Supersized is a great description actually...like great Mcdonalds fries...just more of them


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Supersized is a great description actually...like great Mcdonalds fries...just more of them



Yes that's what I will be ordering from McDonalds tomorrow. I want a supersized double Mac !!! 

And I will tell Glenn I want a supersized Lundahl transformer. That's gonna drain my wallet.


----------



## UntilThen

Good gawd ! How many posts have I made today already? I really blame Arnold.


----------



## UntilThen

These sound so amazing right now. Going back and forth between these 2 amps with Verite, it is as good as it gets. If Berlin sounds a lot better, then I don't know what that is. Right now listening to GOTL in that setup and it's incredible.

I've been blessed with 2 very quiet amps. Make that 3 - including Studio Six.


----------



## attmci (May 31, 2020)

UntilThen said:


> I wasn't that impressed with the WA22 the first time I heard it at Addicted To Audio too because it had poor stock tubes. I was given stock tubes too but I didn't bother with them. Now the WA22 has GEC U52, Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp and Bendix 6080wb and GOTL has Mullard ECC33 with 6 x GE 6BX7gt.
> 
> Both sounding great with Verite Open and HD800. Once again I'm left with a very hard decision picking one over the other. I know if I add Studio Six to the mix, it will be a 3 way contest that will be hard to pick a winner. Such is the calibre of amps here. No bias from me. My appraisal as I hear it. There's no need to favour one over the other because they are all mine and as I have no sponsorship deals, my opinions are just simply that.


Where is your WE422 and PAIR of ECCXX? BTW, WOO made their own transformer in the old days, now sure about now. The used DACT too, but not in the "upgraded" ones. You need to open it to check.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> You just don't listen to us. Where is your WE422 and PAIR of ECCXX? BTW, WOO made their own transformer in the old days, now sure about now. The used DACT too, but not in the "upgraded" ones. You need to open it to check.



What exactly do you mean by 'You just don't listen to us?' I hate this kind of elitist statement on Head-Fi , whether said in jest or seriousness. Most of the time, you come on and just make some smart alex comments, sometimes without any coherent statements. 

As for WE422, this world does not survive on WE422 rectifier alone. What I haven't heard that I won't miss. GEC U52 and Cossor 53ku sounds good enough to me. 

I do not open the WA22 or Studio Six. I'm not an engineer why would I do that. 

Now enough of bothering me with half wit replies. This is probably the reason I want to pull out of this thread.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> Wait until you get the Berlin with Lundahl output transformers.  It will walk over all 3 of those amps.


If this did not raise your excitement barometer @UntilThen, then I don't know what will. I will be following your Berlin adventure with much interest.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Wait until you get the Berlin with Lundahl output transformers.  It will walk over all 3 of those amps.





2359glenn said:


> You will be supersized by the sound of a SET with Lundahl transformers.  I prefer the sound of the EL3N over the OTL It is my best amp for the price.
> Sounds as good as the 300B but allot cheaper.



Glenn - my only concern regarding my upcoming 6EL3N is that it would make my amazing GOTL be *almost* unused... 
My GOTL already caused me to name my collection of amps "my lesser amps".
GOTL and 6EL3N will be the king and queen of my amps!


----------



## attmci (Oct 11, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> What exactly do you mean by 'You just don't listen to us?' I hate this kind of elitist statement on Head-Fi , whether said in jest or seriousness. Most of the time, you come on and just make some smart alex comments, sometimes without any coherent statements.
> 
> As for WE422, this world does not survive on WE422 rectifier alone. What I haven't heard that I won't miss. GEC U52 and Cossor 53ku sounds good enough to me.
> 
> ...


Wow, what a nice comment. Look at what I had posted in the past few days. I am trying to help. But that's enough for now.

TBO, I had ignored anything you posted in the past regarding the new toys.

TTFN


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> If this did not raise your excitement barometer @UntilThen, then I don't know what will. I will be following your Berlin adventure with much interest.



 The truth is I rather go to Germany on a holiday and explore Berlin and the many cities there. Maybe drive on the autobahn. Or ride the new BMW S 1000 RR on it. 

I've purchased all the tubes necessary for Berlin so I'll leave it alone till launch time. In the meantime, I'm still on planet earth enjoying these 3 incredible sounding amps.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Glenn - my only concern regarding my upcoming 6EL3N is that it would make my amazing GOTL be *almost* unused...
> My GOTL already caused me to name my collection of amps "my lesser amps".
> GOTL and 6EL3N will be the king and queen of my amps!



It's all in the mind. If you think it will be lesser then it will be lesser. Think of it as a variation. I've never thought of GOTL as being outdated. Each time I feel that, I would listen to it again and then be amazed that it is still a really beautiful sounding headphone tube amp and this is will straight forward configuration - Mullard ECC33 and 6 x GE 6BX7gt.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Amen ! I'm looking forward to it ! I need a bigger rack !


  Every time a plastic surgeon hears that phrase they do a happy dance


----------



## GDuss

Zachik said:


> GOTL and 6EL3N will be the king and queen of my amps!



Who is king and who is queen?  Or is that a wait and see decision?  I will only have the GOTL, so am just curious which one I'm dealing with.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 11, 2019)

I am happy for all y'all who have the spendable resources to invest in the 6EL7N amp.  I will be over here on the side lines and enjoying your adventures.  Interesting that we have @UntilThen with 3 high class amps, and he says all 3 sound great.
A new level of experience is on the horizon for the lucky ones.

In the mean time...this is a GOTL tube combo that has my toes curled as I listen to superbly recorded jazz pieces:



I think @mordy talked me into the Ken Rad 6N7 metal, and it was a great suggestion.   A wonderful and inexpensive tube, with impressive bass.

EL32's in the C3g sockets add width/depth/textures and dynamics to the mids.  The 5998's make sure the bass is thunderous but never bloated or sloppy.

Hats off to the 6EL3N peeps and cheers plus good tunes to the owners' of the amp that does so much with so many...tubes!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I am happy for all y'all who have the spendable resources to invest in the 6EL7N amp.  I will be over here on the side lines and enjoying your adventures.  Interesting that we have @UntilThen with 3 high class amps, and he says all 3 sound great.
> A new level of experience is on the horizon for the lucky ones.
> 
> In the mean time...this is a GOTL tube combo that has my toes curled as I listen superbly recorded jazz pieces:
> ...


I think that it is safe to say that good bass is part of the house sound of all Ken-Rad tubes.
I am jumping on the 6J5 bandwagon and have gotten a couple of tubes, but my adapter did not arrive yet. Does anybody have experience with the all metal 6J5  tubes and variants?
From my understanding the metal tubes are usually early versions and cost more to manufacture than the glass equivalents which was the reason that the manufacturers stopped making them. The lack of visual appeal usually translates into low prices for these tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I think that it is safe to say that good bass is part of the house sound of all Ken-Rad tubes.
> I am jumping on the 6J5 bandwagon and have gotten a couple of tubes, but my adapter did not arrive yet. Does anybody have experience with the all metal 6J5  tubes and variants?
> From my understanding the metal tubes are usually early versions and cost more to manufacture than the glass equivalents which was the reason that the manufacturers stopped making them. The lack of visual appeal usually translates into low prices for these tubes.



I have them in my 1943 Montgomery Wards AM console radio!!  Are original, and still work....smiles!
Have not tried them in the GOTL yet...you will be the pioneer!


----------



## Zachik

GDuss said:


> *Who is king and who is queen?*  Or is that a wait and see decision?  I will only have the GOTL, so am just curious which one I'm dealing with.


Hmmm...... 
The 6EL3N amp is supposed to have a more refined sound, whereas the GOTL (depending on tube roll) could be all over the map. So I would say: GOTL is the king, and the 6EL3N is the queen.
Having said that, and as every Game of Thrones fan would confirm - the queen is by no means a wimp or a slouch!


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> I have them in my 1943 Montgomery Wards AM console radio!!  Are original, and still work....smiles!
> Have not tried them in the GOTL yet...you will be the pioneer!



They work great in the OTL that is all I use actually the L63 that is a 6J5


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> ...Sounds as good as the 300B but allot cheaper.



Burn the heretic! There are some new production 300Bs that are quite stunning (in price as well as performance).


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I have them in my 1943 Montgomery Wards AM console radio!!  Are original, and still work....smiles!
> Have not tried them in the GOTL yet...you will be the pioneer!





2359glenn said:


> They work great in the OTL that is all I use actually the L63 that is a 6J5


Hi Glenn,
Was not questioning the 6J5  but wondered if there is a difference in sound between the glass and all metal 6J5 tubes?


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> EL32's in the C3g sockets add width/depth/textures and dynamics to the mids. The 5998's make sure the bass is thunderous but never bloated or sloppy.



I've used a pair of 5998 and a pair of C3g the last couple nights and it has been very satisfying with blues and jazz.  All with nothing in the 6SN7 slot, but that addition will be up next.


----------



## Monsterzero

GDuss said:


> I've used a pair of 5998 and a pair of C3g the last couple nights and it has been very satisfying with blues and jazz.  All with nothing in the 6SN7 slot, but that addition will be up next.


 Can the GOTL handle a triple driver configuration w/ the C3g tubes in place? I thought the EL's w/ adapters had to be in the C3G slots for triple driver.


----------



## GDuss

Zachik said:


> Hmmm......
> The 6EL3N amp is supposed to have a more refined sound, whereas the GOTL (depending on tube roll) could be all over the map. So I would say: GOTL is the king, and the 6EL3N is the queen.
> Having said that, and as every Game of Thrones fan would confirm - the queen is by no means a wimp or a slouch!



Sounds like good rationale to me.  And agreed, never underestimate the queen


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> Can the GOTL handle a triple driver configuration w/ the C3g tubes in place? I thought the EL's w/ adapters had to be in the C3G slots for triple driver.



Good question, that should probably be answered before I try it.


----------



## GDuss

This is why it's valuable to have the experts contributing to this thread.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> The truth is I rather go to Germany on a holiday and explore Berlin and the many cities there. Maybe drive on the autobahn. Or ride the new BMW S 1000 RR on it.
> 
> I've purchased all the tubes necessary for Berlin so I'll leave it alone till launch time. In the meantime, I'm still on planet earth enjoying these 3 incredible sounding amps.


You know Matt, I would as well. And that includes tour in Italy and other parts of EU. However, tour at Nirvana with my Darna will do at the moment.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> I've used a pair of 5998 and a pair of C3g the last couple nights and it has been very satisfying with blues and jazz.  All with nothing in the 6SN7 slot, but that addition will be up next.





Monsterzero said:


> Can the GOTL handle a triple driver configuration w/ the C3g tubes in place? I thought the EL's w/ adapters had to be in the C3G slots for triple driver.



No harm will come to your GOTL if you run a 6SN7 + 2 x c3g + 2 x 5998 but ....... the question is will it sound better? It's best you try it out yourself and determine it for yourself. YMMV.

Just to satisfy myself and both of you, I've just done a listening test with and without a Mullard ECC33 in place with c3g(s) and 5998s. To my ears, there's no improvements with the added ECC33. In fact I felt there's a meshing of the tone. It's a bit less precise than if without ECC33. The dominant tone is still c3g.

The combination of Siemens c3g(s) and 5998s is very good. IMO no need to throw in an extra 6sn7. I'm just musing to myself. Someone once wanted to have a GOTL built to have driver sockets for one 6sn7, 2 c3g  annd 2 EL3N. I believe that if such a GOTL is build, it would be opined that using all 6sn7 + 2 x c3g + 2 + EL3N will produce the best sound but I disagree. It's not a case of the more the merrier.

2 x Siemens c3g and 2 x Tung Sol 5998

 


Mullard ECC33 + 2 x Siemens c3g + 2 x Tung Sol 5998


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> Burn the heretic! There are some new production 300Bs that are quite stunning (in price as well as performance).



Haha.... I agree. I can't believe that in the world of 300b tubes that only the Takatsuki(s) and WE 300b tubes are the only viable alternatives and the rest rubbish. Granted the former are the best but the lessor tubes should at least be listenable to some degree.

When I was loan the WA5LE, I was given a pair of Takatsuki 300b and a pair of Psvane 300b tubes. I regretted not trying the latter because my friend says it's rubbish. I could have at least try it and hear it for myself. Maybe it's rubbish but I could have at least hear it for myself.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> You know Matt, I would as well. And that includes tour in Italy and other parts of EU. However, tour at Nirvana with my Darna will do at the moment.



We could meet in Europe in 2021. 

At the moment I'm stuck with GOTL using Siemens c3g(s) and Tung Sol 5998(s). Just swapped over from Studio Six and prior to that the WA22. The GOTL with these tubes stand shoulder to shoulder with the other 2 amps. Some aspect I actually like the GOTL better. Like the more pure tube sound, it's rounder and more blossom at the musical notes edge. Treble is more relaxed, mid is rounder and fatter, bass is also rounder and fatter but not out of control. Remember this is comparing the OTL with the other 2 SET amps. The SET amps are leaner in tone and more precise. Take your pick, the variations are all good here.


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:


> Burn the heretic! There are some new production 300Bs that are quite stunning (in price as well as performance).



I am the heretic !
What are these good 300Bs.  I have gotten a bunch of crappy ones that the filament burns out after a short time.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> I've used a pair of 5998 and a pair of C3g the last couple nights and it has been very satisfying with blues and jazz.  All with nothing in the 6SN7 slot, but that addition will be up next.



Right-o!  One of my C3g's was naked and one clothed...rather than buy another clothed one, I disrobed my clothed one  When you do that you have to glue on the loctal base on.  I did that, with 2 part epoxy.  When that dries, I will give C3g/5998 another go, (tonight).

C3g has a lot of gain so try and use a lower gain tube in SN7 socket.  12AU7 is lower gain than 6SN7 for instance.

Most folks did not like triplet with C3g in, as C3g is so good - don't need the 3rd driver.

YMMV


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Haha.... I agree. I can't believe that in the world of 300b tubes that only the Takatsuki(s) and WE 300b tubes are the only viable alternatives and the rest rubbish. Granted the former are the best but the lessor tubes should at least be listenable to some degree.
> 
> When I was loan the WA5LE, I was given a pair of Takatsuki 300b and a pair of Psvane 300b tubes. I regretted not trying the latter because my friend says it's rubbish. I could have at least try it and hear it for myself. Maybe it's rubbish but I could have at least hear it for myself.



These newer tubes don't sound like rubbish they just don't last the filament burns out aftr a couple of months of use.(RUBBISH)


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> No harm will come to your GOTL if you run a 6SN7 + 2 x c3g + 2 x 5998 but ....... the question is will it sound better? It's best you try it out yourself and determine it for yourself. YMMV.
> 
> Just to satisfy myself and both of you, I've just done a listening test with and without a Mullard ECC33 in place with c3g(s) and 5998s. To my ears, there's no improvements with the added ECC33. In fact I felt there's a meshing of the tone. It's a bit less precise than if without ECC33. The dominant tone is still c3g.
> 
> ...



Agree that C3g does not benefit from a third driver.

But, SN7 _anything_ sure benefits from EL32's in the C3g sockets.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> We could meet in Europe in 2021.
> 
> At the moment I'm stuck with GOTL using Siemens c3g(s) and Tung Sol 5998(s). Just swapped over from Studio Six and prior to that the WA22. The GOTL with these tubes stand shoulder to shoulder with the other 2 amps. Some aspect I actually like the GOTL better. Like the more pure tube sound, it's rounder and more blossom at the musical notes edge. Treble is more relaxed, mid is rounder and fatter, bass is also rounder and fatter but not out of control. Remember this is comparing the OTL with the other 2 SET amps. The SET amps are leaner in tone and more precise. Take your pick, the variations are all good here.



The C3g is one of the best sounding drivers there is!!!!! Surprised more people don't use them?


----------



## TonyNewman (Oct 11, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> I am the heretic !
> What are these good 300Bs.  I have gotten a bunch of crappy ones that the filament burns out after a short time.



Takatsuki 300B.
Elrog 300B.
EML 300B (mesh and plate)

I run mine carefully - around 60mA, 450V, with the soft start to avoid a current surge on start up with the SS rectification. The current surge wrecks tubes - you get damaged filaments and tube "whispering"..

Western electric are about to start shipping reissue WE300Bs. I hope they are as good as the originals.

None of these tubes are cheap. EML would probably be the best for price/performance. Elrog had their reliability issues early on, but these have (apparently) been resolved.

The Takatsukis are very pricey, however they are rock solid. Expect 10,000+ hours from a pair (as per the original WE300Bs). I have been using mine for about 2 years.

I have taken a punt on some Psvane ACME tubes. I only have about 50 hours on them as yet, however they are proving to be more detailed and dynamic than the TA300B while also showing plenty of musicality. Will see what happens reliability-wise. I have been burned before on Chinese tubes.

Here is a pic:







And the amp in all its glory:






The SET sound from a high end 300B is quite something. Never heard the EL3N, so can't comment on that.

EDIT - can't get the images to show. Dammit! Finally - worked it out.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> No harm will come to your GOTL if you run a 6SN7 + 2 x c3g + 2 x 5998 but ....... the question is will it sound better? It's best you try it out yourself and determine it for yourself. YMMV.
> 
> Just to satisfy myself and both of you, I've just done a listening test with and without a Mullard ECC33 in place with c3g(s) and 5998s. To my ears, there's no improvements with the added ECC33. In fact I felt there's a meshing of the tone. It's a bit less precise than if without ECC33. The dominant tone is still c3g.
> 
> ...



Like I said, it's great to have the experts contributing to this thread, especially for those of us new to Glenn amps.  Thanks for the input and also for testing this.


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:


> Takatsuki 300B.
> Elrog 300B.
> EML 300B (mesh and plate)
> 
> ...



I have a couple of the PSvane coming to try. Elrog the filament burned out KR globe one filament burned out after a year.
The only good ones were WE but I sold them Fool.
If these new ones are crap I change the amps to use EL34s had it with crappy 300Bs


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> Right-o!  One of my C3g's was naked and one clothed...rather than buy another clothed one, I disrobed my clothed one  When you do that you have to glue on the loctal base on.  I did that, with 2 part epoxy.  When that dries, I will give C3g/5998 another go, (tonight).
> 
> C3g has a lot of gain so try and use a lower gain tube in SN7 socket.  12AU7 is lower gain than 6SN7 for instance.
> 
> ...



Thanks to you as well JV.  I should try the experiment for myself, but honestly, if it gets no better than just 5998 and C3g, I won't have any complaints.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> I think that it is safe to say that good bass is part of the house sound of all Ken-Rad tubes.
> I am jumping on the 6J5 bandwagon and have gotten a couple of tubes, but my adapter did not arrive yet. Does anybody have experience with the all metal 6J5  tubes and variants?
> From my understanding the metal tubes are usually early versions and cost more to manufacture than the glass equivalents which was the reason that the manufacturers stopped making them. The lack of visual appeal usually translates into low prices for these tubes.


Aha!  Another 6J-fiver, excellent  I have not tried the USA-made metal 6J5 tubes, mordy, but I do have a pair of Visseaux and RFT metal 6J5.  They both sound excellent, I do not think the metal versions have a positive or negative effect on the sound.  It would be very hard for me to discern the Visseaux metal can vs the ST-shaped 6J5 as the internals are identical.  I think the same would hold for the metal American tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Like I said, it's great to have the experts contributing to this thread, especially for those of us new to Glenn amps.  Thanks for the input and also for testing this.



I'm no expert just a consumer and it's my pleasure trying it out for you Guss.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Aha!  Another 6J-fiver, excellent  I have not tried the USA-made metal 6J5 tubes, mordy, but I do have a pair of Visseaux and RFT metal 6J5.  They both sound excellent, I do not think the metal versions have a positive or negative effect on the sound.  It would be very hard for me to discern the Visseaux metal can vs the ST-shaped 6J5 as the internals are identical.  I think the same would hold for the metal American tubes.



ESRC has NOS 6J5s metal for $4 each. Hard to beat that.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The C3g is one of the best sounding drivers there is!!!!! Surprised more people don't use them?



Exactly. The GOTL has custom sockets for the c3g but most are getting other pentodes with adapters to run it. I guess if the GOTL had EL3N sockets in it, there will be attempts to use c3g in it with adapters. As far as I can help it, I'll stay away from adapters.


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> I have taken a punt on some Psvane ACME tubes. I only have about 50 hours on them as yet, however they are proving to be more detailed and dynamic than the TA300B while also showing plenty of musicality. Will see what happens reliability-wise. I have been burned before on Chinese tubes.



Haha interesting that they are more detailed and dynamic. Would love to check with you 3 months later on how the Psvane go.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> Haha interesting that they are more detailed and dynamic. Would love to check with you 3 months later on how the Psvane go.



It's a gamble. That's for sure. So far, so good, but....


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> It's a gamble. That's for sure. So far, so good, but....



Life's a gamble at times. If you don't try how would you know. An expensive exercise though trying 300b tubes. Have you tried any of the Sophia Princess range? In particular the Sophia Electric Princess 300b.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> Thanks to you as well JV.  I should try the experiment for myself, but honestly, if it gets no better than just 5998 and C3g, I won't have any complaints.



I just compared:

C3g 5998
ECC804 C3g 5998

With my lowly high imp SENN cans....the triplet wins by a spectacular margin.

However...YMMV


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Life's a gamble at times. If you don't try how would you know. An expensive exercise though trying 300b tubes. Have you tried any of the Sophia Princess range? In particular the Sophia Electric Princess 300b.



I tried Sophia mesh plate globe 300Bs one had a misaligned grid causing a hot spot on the plate. And couldn't adjust the bias properly.
More expensive (RUBBISH) MORE MONEY LOST AS USUAL WITH THESE TUBES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> The SET sound from a high end 300B is quite something. Never heard the EL3N, so can't comment on that.



You obviously love your Glenn 300b amp.

I can see how my audio journey will end. All 3 of my present tube amps will go and I'll end up with Berlin and a 300b amp.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I tried Sophia mesh plate globe 300Bs one had a misaligned grid causing a hot spot on the plate. And couldn't adjust the bias properly.
> More expensive (RUBBISH) MORE MONEY LOST AS USUAL WITH THESE TUBES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Hahaha got to stop making me laugh Glenn.... I'm about to go and have a hearty breakfast and I can't do that if I laugh too much.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> You obviously love your Glenn 300b amp.
> 
> I can see how my audio journey will end. All 3 of my present tube amps will go and I'll end up with Berlin and a 300b amp.



I am hoping the Berlin will sound as good as the 300B You have enough EL12spez for a lifetime.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Hahaha got to stop making me laugh Glenn.... I'm about to go and have a hearty breakfast and I can't do that if I laugh too much.



It's not funny I waisted thousands on these stupid tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I am hoping the Berlin will sound as good as the 300B You have enough EL12spez for a lifetime.



I hope so too, so that it's the end for me and I don't have to chase another 300b amp.  

I have:-

3 pairs of Telefunken EL12 spez NOS - virgin new but tested quiet in GOTL as drivers.
1 pair of Tesla EL12 spez NOS
1 pair of Telefunken EL11 NOS NIB
2 pairs of Siemens EL11 NOS NIB
1 pair of Triotron EL11 NOS NIB
1 pair of Tungsram EL11 NOS NIB
1 pair of RFT EL11 NOS NIB
1 pair of Philip Miniwatt EL11 NOS
1 pair of Telefunken EL12 NOS
1 pair of RFT EL12N NOS


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> Life's a gamble at times. If you don't try how would you know. An expensive exercise though trying 300b tubes. Have you tried any of the Sophia Princess range? In particular the Sophia Electric Princess 300b.



Had a pair of Royal Princess that I ended up selling. Decent tubes - great bass, but a little on the dark side for me.

Had no reliability issues with them myself.


----------



## UntilThen

What I like about Berlin is that I can still use my GEC U52, Cossor 53ku and Mullard GZ34 as rectifier.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> What I like about Berlin is that I can still use my GEC U52, Cossor 53ku and Mullard GZ34 as rectifier.



Gotta get a Telefunken rectifier to go "full Berlin." 

I took a few years of German in college, on my bucket list to take it back up and do a long trip through Bavaria, Austria, and Switzerland.


----------



## pippen99

UntilThen said:


> Life's a gamble at times. If you don't try how would you know. An expensive exercise though trying 300b tubes. Have you tried any of the Sophia Princess range? In particular the Sophia Electric Princess 300b.


When I had my WA5 I ran the Sophia Royal Princess 300B for two years with no problems.  Loved them!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 11, 2019)

Very off topic, but a close friend is a composer of sorts and is into very...cerebral music.

He wants to go to Germany next year and witness the next note change in the John Cage piece "As Slow As Possible".  The organ version of the piece being is "performed" at Sankt-Burchardi-Church in Halberstadt, Germany.  It started in 2001 and is scheduled to last 639 years, ending in 2640.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_Slow_as_Possible


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I hope so too, so that it's the end for me and I don't have to chase another 300b amp.
> 
> I have:-
> 
> ...



You think that is enough for the rest of your life?


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Very off topic, but a close friend is a composer of sorts and is into very...cerebral music.
> 
> He wants to go to Germany next year and witness the next note change in the John Cage piece "As Slow As Possible".  The organ version of the piece being is "performed" at Sankt-Burchardi-Church in Halberstadt, Germany.  It started in 2001 and is scheduled to last 639 years, ending in 2640.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_Slow_as_Possible



"The piece started with a 17-month rest on September 5, 2001"

OMG!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> "The piece started with a 17-month rest on September 5, 2001"
> 
> OMG!



Can't wait to hear it live LOL.

John Cage, ladies and gentlemen.


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> I just compared:
> 
> C3g 5998
> ECC804 C3g 5998
> ...



I stuck with 5998 and C3g for another evening.  Still need more time with this combo to figure it out.  It's hot though.


----------



## 2359glenn

pippen99 said:


> When I had my WA5 I ran the Sophia Royal Princess 300B for two years with no problems.  Loved them!



The difference is the TV everything is hooked to my stereo so when we come home everything gets turned on. So the 300Bs are on at least 5 hours or more every day.
If they are rubbish it shows up pretty fast. So far everything but WEs were pure rubbish.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> I stuck with 5998 and C3g for another evening.  Still need more time with this combo to figure it out.  It's hot though.



LOL...nice!


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Exactly. The GOTL has custom sockets for the c3g but most are getting other pentodes with adapters to run it. I guess if the GOTL had EL3N sockets in it, there will be attempts to use c3g in it with adapters. As far as I can help it, I'll stay away from adapters.



LOL...

Yeah more for everyone else to enjoy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Question for @2359glenn:

How important is "spec sheet perfect" cathode bias?
You just said you only run L63 (6J5) now in an adapter you made to run them in what was originality for EL3N,

Did you also change the cathode bias resistor value?


----------



## gibosi (Oct 11, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Gotta get a Telefunken rectifier to go "full Berlin."
> 
> I took a few years of German in college, on my bucket list to take it back up and do a long trip through Bavaria, Austria, and Switzerland.



But unfortunately, in order to use Telefunken rectifiers he will need to use an adapter. Anathema!


----------



## 2359glenn

No the amp has two 6J5 sockets and I use 6J5 to EL3N adapters the same as if it was a dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter.
Not the optimal bias for the EL3N but sounds good with the ZMF Auteur. The only headphone I use the EL3N
drivers fore. And don't do this much usually use the Verite with the all GEC setup.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> No the amp has two 6J5 sockets and I use 6J5 to EL3N adapters the same as if it was a dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter.
> Not the optimal bias for the EL3N but sounds good with the ZMF Auteur. The only headphone I use the EL3N
> drivers fore. And don't do this much usually use the Verite with the all GEC setup.



Got it, so it is not super critical to have the bias resistor at the ideal value.
In general, if you did change it...what would you expect hear, different?


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Gotta get a Telefunken rectifier to go "full Berlin."
> 
> I took a few years of German in college, on my bucket list to take it back up and do a long trip through Bavaria, Austria, and Switzerland.



A full Telefunken setup might be too bright, hence the British rectifiers.


----------



## UntilThen

pippen99 said:


> When I had my WA5 I ran the Sophia Royal Princess 300B for two years with no problems.  Loved them!



What happen to your WA5 now? What amp are you using now?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You think that is enough for the rest of your life?



Enough for 2 life time.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> No the amp has two 6J5 sockets and I use 6J5 to EL3N adapters the same as if it was a dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter.
> Not the optimal bias for the EL3N but sounds good with the ZMF Auteur. The only headphone I use the EL3N
> drivers fore. And don't do this much usually use the Verite with the all GEC setup.



For those of us who use EL3N to C3g adapters, how close is the C3g biasing to what would be optimal for the EL3N?


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> But unfortunately, in order to use Telefunken rectifiers he will need to use an adapter. Anathema!



I'm thinking of adding these 2 to my collection for Berlin plus they can be used in WA22.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> For those of us who use EL3N to C3g adapters, how close is the C3g biasing to what would be optimal for the EL3N?



They both use the same cathode resistor 430 ohms


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I'm thinking of adding these 2 to my collection for Berlin plus they can be used in WA22.



Sophia is rubbish it arced over in my preamp another waist of money


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> They both use the same cathode resistor 430 ohms



Perfecto!


----------



## JazzVinyl

@2359glenn A while back you showed a tube that had a relay and it delayed B+ from going to the plates of a 300B amp for 30 seconds...because that amp was to use SS rectifiers...

Just wondered how all that worked out?


----------



## pippen99

UntilThen said:


> What happen to your WA5 now? What amp are you using now?


I had this grand plan to sell the WA5 and Cavalli Liquid Gold and save a few bucks and purchase a Woo WA33.  Got the WA5 sold then Zach started making headphones I could not resist so that plan gradually faded into the ether(no Mr Speakers pun intended).  I am fully satisfied with the Lau.  I recently added a Lumin U1 streamer so the wallet is a little flat.  Probably will be laying low for a while.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> They both use the same cathode resistor 430 ohms



I am very happy to know this. And so it's no accident that the EL3N sound so good in my amp. For sure, they are among my favorite drivers.


----------



## DecentLevi

JazzVinyl said:


> Question for @2359glenn:
> 
> How important is "spec sheet perfect" cathode bias?
> You just said you only run L63 (6J5) now in an adapter you made to run them in what was originality for EL3N,
> ...



I am also quite interested in the answer to this question, @2359glenn . How much does it impact the sound a having properly biased cathode resistor, vs. being a ways off? And is the change in sound significant, or what kind of change occurs? 

I'm still needing feedback to see whether it would be worthwhile or not to have a knob to select between several cathode resistor settings for the 4x power tubes EL3N, EL12, EL12 Spez, EL39, KT66 and 7581A on my upcoming 'El Darwin' amp. Or at least a simple switch? to select between the top two most prominent or average cathode bias settings. Several of the above tube classes have the same or very similar cathode bias values, however I don't know how to determine these values or where to look, although I have been able to locate data sheets for all tubes. 

Thanks in advance...


----------



## gibosi

DecentLevi said:


> I am also quite interested in the answer to this question, @2359glenn . How much does it impact the sound a having properly biased cathode resistor, vs. being a ways off? And is the change in sound significant, or what kind of change occurs?
> 
> I'm still needing feedback to see whether it would be worthwhile or not to have a knob to select between several cathode resistor settings for the 4x power tubes EL3N, EL12, EL12 Spez, EL39, KT66 and 7581A on my upcoming 'El Darwin' amp. Or at least a simple switch? to select between the top two most prominent or average cathode bias settings. Several of the above tube classes have the same or very similar cathode bias values, however I don't know how to determine these values or where to look, although I have been able to locate data sheets for all tubes.
> 
> Thanks in advance...



I suspect that the answer to your first question is that it varies depending on the tube. However, it is interesting to note that the ECC32 is biased incorrectly in a 6SN7 socket. And the 5998 is biased incorrectly in a 6AS7 socket unless you happen to have a Glenn OTL with a bias switch. Even so, both these tubes are considered to be among the very best even though they are usually used in amps that do not bias them correctly. So I would guess that tubes are more forgiving of improper biasing than we might think....


----------



## Zachik

Got heat related question:
I am setting up my brand new AV rack shelves, and was wondering what should be the shelf height for the GOTL? 
Tallest tubes (e.g. EL11) with adapters and all seems to be 10 inches or so from the bottom of the shelf. Would 2.5 inches above the top of the tube enough, or would it heat the shelf above it (made of metal) too much?


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> I suspect that the answer to your first question is that it varies depending on the tube. However, it is interesting to note that the ECC32 is biased incorrectly in a 6SN7 socket. And the 5998 is biased incorrectly in a 6AS7 socket unless you happen to have a Glenn OTL with a bias switch. Even so, both these tubes are considered to be among the very best even though they are usually used in amps that do not bias them correctly. So I would guess that tubes are more forgiving of improper biasing than we might think....



I thought the 5998 bias switch was for the case when you would employ 4x 5998's..?


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> I thought the 5998 bias switch was for the case when you would employ 4x 5998's..?



No, the switch was intended to provide the proper bias for a pair. But of course, it will also provide the proper bias for a quad.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> No, the switch was intended to provide the proper bias for a pair. But of course, it will also provide the proper bias for a quad.



That is not what was described to me.  Glenn will clarify, I'm sure.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> No, the switch was intended to provide the proper bias for a pair. But of course, it will also provide the proper bias for a quad.



I do see when searching for the 5998 switch G...that you are correct.   I stand corrected, sir!

Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

pippen99 said:


> I had this grand plan to sell the WA5 and Cavalli Liquid Gold and save a few bucks and purchase a Woo WA33.  Got the WA5 sold then Zach started making headphones I could not resist so that plan gradually faded into the ether(no Mr Speakers pun intended).  I am fully satisfied with the Lau.  I recently added a Lumin U1 streamer so the wallet is a little flat.  Probably will be laying low for a while.



The Liquid Gold is a classic now, much loved during the height of Cavalli fan base. Wish I could get a chance to listen to it. The Woo WA33 is a rather special sounding amp. The Lumin U1 is also a great streamer. You've a great setup there. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Tallest tubes (e.g. EL11) with adapters and all seems to be 10 inches or so from the bottom of the shelf.



Do you use the EL11 as drivers much and if so with what power tubes ?


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> No, the switch was intended to provide the proper bias for a pair. But of course, it will also provide the proper bias for a quad.



It's the reason I have the 5998 switch.


----------



## Sound Trooper

I finally have time to sit down and spend some time with the EL34 tubes and I am really impressed so far. Treble is more extended while bass is cleaner as compared to the EL3N tubes. The more listen to it, the more I understand the high praises these tubes have. No doubt a Glenn EL34 amp will be Super interesting. 

Thanks to @whirlwind for pointing me to the EL34 and @Deyan for building the adapters.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Treble is more extended while bass is cleaner as compared to the EL3N tubes.



So you did hear that difference between EL34 and EL3N. Just as I expected. Similarly that's part of what I hear of the difference between EL12 spez and EL3N, just using them as driver in GOTL. 

I've always preferred EL11, EL12 spez over EL3N for that reason.

Enjoy Sam.


----------



## Sound Trooper (Oct 12, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> So you did hear that difference between EL34 and EL3N. Just as I expected. Similarly that's part of what I hear of the difference between EL12 spez and EL3N, just using them as driver in GOTL.
> 
> I've always preferred EL11, EL12 spez over EL3N for that reason.
> 
> Enjoy Sam.



yes there was a difference, especially in the treble and upper mids. The EL34 sounds more extended and slightly more forwarded, it’s like giving the vocals and instruments more air to breathe. Sub bass from the EL3N is still unbeatable thou.

oh yah.. to add the Autuer with the EL34 is really nice. Vocals seem to have a very life like presentation and the sound stage opens up as well.


----------



## chrisdrop

Good (my) morning all,

I am (thankfully if not impatiently!) in the postal-system-waiting-game for the arrival of a new amp from Glenn .. any day. Since all I can do is imagine presently (and enjoy some new headphones sans GOTL), I am trying to clarify the “recipe” for tube rolling on the GOTL. Thankfully - there are many, many good combo recommendations here on the forum. With thanks, several of you have posted references to find tube spec details (@mordy, @JazzVinyl, @L0rdGwyn, @OctavianH, @whirlwind) such as; http://www.r-type.org/, https://frank.pocnet.net/,  https://www.radiomuseum.org, etc. I will surely start w/ the tubes Glenn is sending, and then various other combos that have been recommended here. That said, I'd still like to clarify my understanding of how to go about the whole process.

Minimally I need to be able to implement a sort of _GOTL hippocratic oath_; “first, do no harm" (to _it, my ears, _or my _headphones_!). In order to do that, I need to be clearer of understanding. The below list is not complete, but my aim is to make it complete... It is a bit of a flail presently and some of you may look at it and find significant errors, flawed thinking or otherwise silly and naive thoughts! _I specifically am the least clear on the connection between headphone needs and the gain needed._  Thanks in advance for your thoughts. 

Know your headphones (sensitivity, impedance)
How much power do I need? http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-power.html 
For my ZMF Verite; Impedance: 300 Ohms, Sensitivity: 99 dB/mW
10.0mW -  31.6mW power needed

Know your amp sockets/ tubes compatibility (thanks @Zachik): Glenn OTL Tube Compatibility Table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHcgqSa16WqaAjwUYoE3eZlSfmaSluQFVYqY1pry-NI/edit#gid=0
Know your amp limit:
(via @JazzVinyl https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2127#post-15224187) "The GOTL 13 amp limit refers to all the tubes in the GOTL - add up the "*Heater Current*" as seen in the PDF data sheet. In the case of 6BL7 it is 1.5 amps per tube. 6x 6BL7's uses a total of 1.5 x 6 = 9 amps. Which leaves you 4 amps of current for the driver(s),"
_I think/ assume my amp will be 13 amps also.._

Select tubes (inputs, drivers, [rectifier _(mine fixed)_]). 
_ensure amp limit/ total current as above_
_*<<something about amplification factor (gain) here>>*_

Clean if needed (alcohol / sandpaper) the pins.
(Power off)
Ensure 6/12/25 switch set properly for *driver voltage* (found in tube specs from refs)
Seat the tubes 
Plug-in “sacrificial” headphones 1st (in case some issue you don’t want to blow up kilobuck headphones)
(Power on)
Hopefully all is well! Swap to desired headphones and enjoy
Any thoughts would be appreciated. You guys have all been great, so thanks again in advance for your wisdom.

Best
Chris


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 12, 2019)

chrisdrop said:


> Good (my) morning all,
> 
> I am (thankfully if not impatiently!) in the postal-system-waiting-game for the arrival of a new amp from Glenn .. any day. Since all I can do is imagine presently (and enjoy some new headphones sans GOTL), I am trying to clarify the “recipe” for tube rolling on the GOTL. Thankfully - there are many, many good combo recommendations here on the forum. With thanks, several of you have posted references to find tube spec details (@mordy, @JazzVinyl, @L0rdGwyn, @OctavianH, @whirlwind) such as; http://www.r-type.org/, https://frank.pocnet.net/,  https://www.radiomuseum.org, etc. I will surely start w/ the tubes Glenn is sending, and then various other combos that have been recommended here. That said, I'd still like to clarify my understanding of how to go about the whole process.
> 
> ...



Hi Chrisdrop - I think your understanding is pretty accurate!  I just have two comments.

As far as the 13A heater current limit, this is dependent on the type of rectification and transformer used in your build.  If you opted for the Lundahl transformer, the total current draw for the filaments is 13A, and that does include a tube rectifier; the current draw from a tube rectifier with a Lundahl transformer does need to be factored into to the 13A limit.  One of the four 3.3A windings from the transformer is devoted to the rectifier, so a total of 9.9A is available for the remainder of the tube filaments.  If you went with a solid state (i.e., HEXFRED) rectifier and Lundahl transformer, then the 13A can be devoted completely to the driver and power tubes.  Alternatively, if you went with tube rectification and the USA-manufactured transformer, then there are separate windings for the rectifier tube and driver/power tubes, so the total 13A is available for the driver/power tubes.  It sounds like from your post you went Lundahl with HEXFRED rectification?

Glenn talks in detail about the transforms in the post below.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1249#post-14077033

As far as the start-up procedure goes, if it is your first time using a pair of tubes, you are suspicious of a set of tubes, or they are 5998/421A tubes (which are prone to arcing), I would wait for the tubes to warm up for a few minutes even before plugging in your sacrificial headphones.  Tubes are most likely to arc during the first 10-30 seconds of warm up, and there is no need to destroy your sacrificial headphones.  An arcing tube can often be seen/heard without needing to plug anything in.  As a matter of caution, I do not have any headphones plugged in when turning on or off my GOTL.  I might be a bit paranoid, but I have had many tubes arc in the past.  My pair of Western Electric 421A destroyed my sacrificial headphones the first week I had the GOTL  they had not been used in some time.  So, let those tubes warm up a bit before plugging anything in would be my advice.

You are in for a real treat.  Have you collected any tubes in anticipation of the amp's arrival?


----------



## Sound Trooper

Hmm.. things are getting a little strange here.

after 3 hours with the EL34 tubes, I’m starting to think about having them in the GEL3N... Permanently!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Sound Trooper said:


> Hmm.. things are getting a little strange here.
> 
> after 3 hours with the EL34 tubes, I’m starting to think about having them in the GEL3N... Permanently!



I am planning to have EL34 as an output option in my SET amp, so this is great to hear!  Glad you are enjoying them, iconic tube.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Hmm.. things are getting a little strange here.
> 
> after 3 hours with the EL34 tubes, I’m starting to think about having them in the GEL3N... Permanently!





Try EL11 driving EL34. Get adapters to use EL11 in the drivers' seat.


----------



## Sound Trooper (Oct 12, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am planning to have EL34 as an output option in my SET amp, so this is great to hear!  Glad you are enjoying them, iconic tube.



All I can say is.. DO IT!! And thank @whirlwind later, he was the one who pointed me towards that direction.



UntilThen said:


> Try EL11 driving EL34. Get adapters to use EL11 in the drivers' seat.



I’m kinda hesitating as if have so many pairs of EL3N tubes.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hi Chrisdrop - I think your understanding is pretty accurate!  I just have two comments.
> 
> As far as the 13A heater current limit, this is dependent on the type of rectification and transformer used in your build.  If you opted for the Lundahl transformer, the total current draw for the filaments is 13A, and that does include a tube rectifier; the current draw from a tube rectifier with a Lundahl transformer does need to be factored into to the 13A limit.  One of the four 3.3A windings from the transformer is devoted to the rectifier, so a total of 9.9A is available for the remainder of the tube filaments.  If you went with a solid state (i.e., HEXFRED) rectifier and Lundahl transformer, then the 13A can be devoted completely to the driver and power tubes.  Alternatively, if you went with tube rectification and the USA-manufactured transformer, then there are separate windings for the rectifier tube and driver/power tubes, so the total 13A is available for the driver/power tubes.  It sounds like from your post you went Lundahl with HEXFRED rectification?
> 
> ...



Thanks v much for the refs and comments. I especially appreciate your extra cautions. I'd be very sad if I harmed headphones, ears, or the amp itself.



L0rdGwyn said:


> Lundahl with HEXFRED rectification?



That is right. 



L0rdGwyn said:


> Have you collected any tubes in anticipation of the amp's arrival?



I have done a bit - yes. Couldn't help! I do intend to go slowly and step through from what Glenn sent, then through recommendations catalogued from the forum, etc.  There is a listing of the tubes I have gathered thus far in the "My Tubes" tab of this sheet FWIW.

I have been trying to compile an orderly FAQ, listing of pairing recommendations, tube recommendations, etc. It is very much a new work-in-progress.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IAHbGri_7IqTpxnE0KmnHP1ZcM9yQOHax_vNvK0HI-Y/edit?usp=sharing

This spreadsheet is my current effort to condense much of the wisdom spread across some 32k+ posts for consumption by a newb like me. Thanks to all of you that I have been info-stalking...


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Hmm.. things are getting a little strange here.
> 
> after 3 hours with the EL34 tubes, I’m starting to think about having them in the GEL3N... Permanently!




Hey Sam, glad you are enjoying the EL34 tubes. I hear you on wanting to leave them in your amp.
There are many more great power tubes to use also @leftside has been of great help to me with identifying many of the differences in these tubes.

I am going with these tubes in my next amp build and am experimenting with different drive tubes to match them up with now.
 The EL34 tubes should last a nice long life when Glenn works his magic on the amp and the EL34 already has a great reputation for being rugged and lasting a good long while.
You will also be able to always find tubes as they still make reissues of them.

I am really getting exciting about the amp. Just basically using @leftside idea along with a few others from the thread...and of course whatever Glenn thinks is most important to me
so I will give him total control to do what he sees best.

My EL34 tubes sounded best after about 50 hours or so....I agree with you though the sub bass of the EL3N is just a fun sound. I had the GEL3N amp made for my ZMF Ori and it does not disappoint.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> I’m kinda hesitating as if have so many pairs of EL3N tubes.



I had 8 pairs of EL3N when I switched to EL11. In the end, I sold Elise with all the EL3Ns plus other tubes to Ross. However you should go slow. Get use to the power tube change first then switch drivers. And you think you're safe from tube rolling with GEL3N. 

I'm rolling amps now. Woo Audio WA22, Studio Six and GOTL. This should have been the end. It's that good. However, Berlin is on the way in Feb 2020.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Hey Sam, glad you are enjoying the EL34 tubes. I hear you on wanting to leave them in your amp.
> There are many more great power tubes to use also @leftside has been of great help to me with identifying many of the differences in these tubes.
> 
> I am going with these tubes in my next amp build and am experimenting with different drive tubes to match them up with now.
> ...



Glad to hear that we have similar taste! 



UntilThen said:


> I had 8 pairs of EL3N when I switched to EL11. In the end, I sold Elise with all the EL3Ns plus other tubes to Ross. However you should go slow. Get use to the power tube change first then switch drivers. And you think you're safe from tube rolling with GEL3N.
> 
> I'm rolling amps now. Woo Audio WA22, Studio Six and GOTL. This should have been the end. It's that good. However, Berlin is on the way in Feb 2020.



Hey Matt, you are on a whole different level. Amp rolling rocks! 

I’m hooked with my EL34 + Autuer now..


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Glad to hear that we have similar taste!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can I persuade you to get a Verite?  Go across the causeway to KL and see Ken Jie @UsoppNoKami  and try his Verite Pheasant Wood with his GOTL. It's on another level.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> Can I persuade you to get a Verite?  Go across the causeway to KL and see Ken Jie @UsoppNoKami  and try his Verite Pheasant Wood with his GOTL. It's on another level.



I tried the Verite for a short time at this year’s  Singapore can jam and felt that my auteur was nicer. However it was a short 10 min demo with an amp which i thought didn’t pair well (I forgot which amp it was). Unfortunately (and thankfully) we do not get home demos in Singapore as I think the verite would pair nicely with the GEL3N.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 12, 2019)

Sound Trooper said:


> I tried the Verite for a short time at this year’s  Singapore can jam and felt that my auteur was nicer. However it was a short 10 min demo with an amp which i thought didn’t pair well (I forgot which amp it was). Unfortunately (and thankfully) we do not get home demos in Singapore as I think the verite would pair nicely with the GEL3N.



Verite should pair very well with GEL3N. @TonyNewman  absolutely loves his Verite Open with his Glenn 300b amp.

Verite sounds brilliant with all 3 of my amps because they are all fast tempo amps and also dynamic. These are not warm and slow amps. They are the opposite of that. Verite being slightly warm needs such amps.


----------



## UntilThen

2 months ago I would never have thought of buying Verite because it's a pretty expensive headphone at AUD$3700 imported in to me. I have no idea if I would like it. It's like trying my luck lol. Everyone tells me it's good, even Glenn !!! So I took the plunge and I'm glad I did. Burning it in made me love the headphone more and more. It's such a natural, organic and yet very revealing headphone. Being a details guy, I was afraid I wouldn't like it but it grew on me with each passing day. Now I could just live on Verite alone. I'm saying this after 2 solid months of listening music with it.


----------



## attmci (Oct 12, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hi Chrisdrop - I think your understanding is pretty accurate!  I just have two comments.
> 
> As far as the 13A heater current limit, this is dependent on the type of rectification and transformer used in your build.  If you opted for the Lundahl transformer, the total current draw for the filaments is 13A, and that does include a tube rectifier; the current draw from a tube rectifier with a Lundahl transformer does need to be factored into to the 13A limit.  One of the four 3.3A windings from the transformer is devoted to the rectifier, so a total of 9.9A is available for the remainder of the tube filaments.  If you went with a solid state (i.e., HEXFRED) rectifier and Lundahl transformer, then the 13A can be devoted completely to the driver and power tubes.  Alternatively, if you went with tube rectification and the USA-manufactured transformer, then there are separate windings for the rectifier tube and driver/power tubes, so the total 13A is available for the driver/power tubes.  It sounds like from your post you went Lundahl with HEXFRED rectification?
> 
> ...


I have many 5998 and 421a, none of them have the problems you described. And Glenn also reported the tube destroyed his hd800.
This makes me to believe it could be a amp related issue.

Does the 421a arc on your bottlehead amp?

Here is another discussion of the problem:

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/arcing-tung-sol-5998-tube.582895/


----------



## UntilThen

chrisdrop said:


> I am (thankfully if not impatiently!) in the postal-system-waiting-game for the arrival of a new amp from Glenn .. any day.



Congrats Chris. You will be so pleased with your VC and GOTL. They are a match made in heaven. Just start off with the tubes that Glenn send you.


----------



## Sound Trooper (Oct 12, 2019)

I’m sure the Verite is really good and Zach really knows his stuff when it comes to designing and building headphones. That is also why I bought the Autuer on the spot after a short listen and the Auteur has since has grown on me immensely. This is also one of the headphones which i will not let go off.

No doubt i was very tempted by the verite and Verite closed. But when i look back at what i have now, i feel that I don’t need any new headphones and the new headphones really need to be spectacular before i can open up my wallet again.

What i am really waiting for is a ZMF planar... now that would be something special.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> I have many 5998 and 421a, none of them have the problems you described. And Glenn also reported the tube destroyed his hd800.
> This makes me to believe it could be a amp related issue.
> 
> Does the 421a arc on your bottlehead amp?



Yes it does.  Seems very tube dependent to me, the ones that have done it seem to be repeat offenders.  They are very much still usable though, just need to let them warm up, the 421As have arced maybe three times since I've owned them, maybe every 1/100 uses or something like that.


----------



## attmci (Oct 12, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes it does.  Seems very tube dependent to me, the ones that have done it seem to be repeat offenders.  They are very much still usable though, just need to let them warm up, the 421As have arced maybe three times since I've owned them, maybe every 1/100 uses or something like that.


I just found this, so it's the tube. Sorry for learning your story, and you may have to trash it.
https://forum.bottlehead.com/index.php?topic=10670.0


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> I just found this, so it's the tube. Sorry for that, and you may have to trash it.
> https://forum.bottlehead.com/index.php?topic=10670.0



Oh, I have another working matched pair, that one is a dud!  I still have it though, it breaks my heart because it is in perfect condition otherwise and still works after the fireworks display, but way too risky.  It is from the late 50's with gray plates, which I thought actually sounded a bit better from what I remember...


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> I’m sure the Verite is really good and Zach really knows his stuff when it comes to designing and building headphones. That is also why I bought the Autuer on the spot after a short listen and the Auteur has since has grown on me immensely. This is also one of the headphones which i will not let go off.
> 
> No doubt i was very tempted by the verite and Verite closed. But when i look back at what i have now, i feel that I don’t need any new headphones and the new headphones really need to be spectacular before i can open up my wallet again.
> 
> What i am really waiting for is a ZMF planar... now that would be something special.




I am with you brother....gimme!


----------



## attmci

Sound Trooper said:


> I’m sure the Verite is really good and Zach really knows his stuff when it comes to designing and building headphones. That is also why I bought the Autuer on the spot after a short listen and the Auteur has since has grown on me immensely. This is also one of the headphones which i will not let go off.
> 
> No doubt i was very tempted by the verite and Verite closed. But when i look back at what i have now, i feel that I don’t need any new headphones and the new headphones really need to be spectacular before i can open up my wallet again.
> 
> What i am really waiting for is a ZMF planar... now that would be something special.


So true. The next pair of the cans has to be a couple steps up. But the research may take years to develop decent ZMF planar (comparing to VO/VC)


----------



## Sound Trooper

As an aside.. I participated in a car audio competition recently:


----------



## Sound Trooper

attmci said:


> So true. The next pair of the cans has to be a couple steps up. But the research may take years to develop decent ZMF planar (comparing to VO/VC)



Agreed.. anyway I’m not in a rush.. so it had better be good..


----------



## Phantaminum

Sound Trooper said:


> As an aside.. I participated in a car audio competition recently:



Nice. What’s the full setup? I used to be into car audio years ago.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Phantaminum said:


> Nice. What’s the full setup? I used to be into car audio years ago.



Thanks, i have a full Ground Zero Plutonium speakers + Amps and a helix dsp


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> As an aside.. I participated in a car audio competition recently:



Haha, you should have met me 8 years ago. This was my competition car in car audio. The fire extinguisher is mandatory for competition. My Morel Ultimo 12" sub in a customised sub enclosure. It's pretty stealth. I won a rookie award trophy that year too.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Great to see that there are car audio enthusiasts here as well! 

Car audio is really a bottomless pit.. and thankfully i have stopped chasing down the rabbit hole.


----------



## UntilThen

I had 2 Honda Accord Euro professionally installed with Dynaudio Esotec, Bit-Ten sound processors, Audison splits and sub and Morel Sub, Hertz amps and concealed cabling with a special battery. It's all in the past now. The money could have gone into nice Head-Fi gear now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> Good (my) morning all,
> 
> I am (thankfully if not impatiently!) in the postal-system-waiting-game for the arrival of a new amp from Glenn .. any day. Since all I can do is imagine presently (and enjoy some new headphones sans GOTL), I am trying to clarify the “recipe” for tube rolling on the GOTL. Thankfully - there are many, many good combo recommendations here on the forum. With thanks, several of you have posted references to find tube spec details (@mordy, @JazzVinyl, @L0rdGwyn, @OctavianH, @whirlwind) such as; http://www.r-type.org/, https://frank.pocnet.net/,  https://www.radiomuseum.org, etc. I will surely start w/ the tubes Glenn is sending, and then various other combos that have been recommended here. That said, I'd still like to clarify my understanding of how to go about the whole process.
> 
> ...



Hello Chris!!

You are superbly organized!  Congrats!
Your information looks correct, on this section:

"Select tubes" - regarding amplification factors:

If you use high amplification factor drivers, you might find some powers that also have higher gain factors to be too much, in that you have a small area on the volume pot to adjust volume.

You can use lower amplification power tubes, or use lower amplification driver tubes or lower the input before it enters the amp via your player software or DAC settings.

Some tube amplification factors for power tubes:
6BL7 = 15
6BX7 = 10
5998 = 5
6AS7 / 6H13C / 6080 = 2

Using multiples in the power section, the gain stays at the factor as for one tube...ie 6x 6BL7 - total amplification factor of 10

Same with drivers.  Look up the data sheets, "amplification factor" (also seen as 'mu') will be listed.

6N7 = 35
6SN7 = 20
6SL7 - 70

Etc,,,

Cheers, and luck getting your amp delivered!!!


----------



## whirlwind

I have moved on to the Sylvania driver tubes.....as are the GEC L63 tubes....these are very good
I prefer the GEC, but these has great treble extension and the bass goes deep. Detail sound for sure.
Using Atticus and Bendix 6080 power tubes listening to some Snowy White.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I have moved on to the Sylvania driver tubes.....as are the GEC L63 tubes....these are very good
> I prefer the GEC, but these has great treble extension and the bass goes deep. Detail sound for sure.
> Using Atticus and Bendix 6080 power tubes listening to some Snowy White.



Aah some nice 6J5 round plate tubes.  You can get many of these in round plate.  I have to try some metal ones going to order some from ESRC for $4 each.


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> Thanks v much for the refs and comments. I especially appreciate your extra cautions. I'd be very sad if I harmed headphones, ears, or the amp itself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You have the full 13 amp for the tubes as the amp has SS rectifiers.
Your amp is finally in London about time.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Aah some nice 6J5 round plate tubes.  You can get many of these in round plate.  I have to try some metal ones going to order some from ESRC for $4 each.




Yes these are on loan from @L0rdGwyn 

$4 ...gotta love that and the tubes are NOS


----------



## whirlwind

chrisdrop said:


> Good (my) morning all,
> 
> I am (thankfully if not impatiently!) in the postal-system-waiting-game for the arrival of a new amp from Glenn .. any day. Since all I can do is imagine presently (and enjoy some new headphones sans GOTL), I am trying to clarify the “recipe” for tube rolling on the GOTL. Thankfully - there are many, many good combo recommendations here on the forum. With thanks, several of you have posted references to find tube spec details (@mordy, @JazzVinyl, @L0rdGwyn, @OctavianH, @whirlwind) such as; http://www.r-type.org/, https://frank.pocnet.net/,  https://www.radiomuseum.org, etc. I will surely start w/ the tubes Glenn is sending, and then various other combos that have been recommended here. That said, I'd still like to clarify my understanding of how to go about the whole process.
> 
> ...






Sounds like you are ready to enjoy.

Best advise is to not hurry things such as leaving your headphones plugged in when powering on/off
I always let the amp on for awhile before plugging in. Especially with a few tubes.
I guess this may not be necessary, but it has always worked for me....plus it has just become habit.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> I am also quite interested in the answer to this question, @2359glenn . How much does it impact the sound a having properly biased cathode resistor, vs. being a ways off? And is the change in sound significant, or what kind of change occurs?
> 
> I'm still needing feedback to see whether it would be worthwhile or not to have a knob to select between several cathode resistor settings for the 4x power tubes EL3N, EL12, EL12 Spez, EL39, KT66 and 7581A on my upcoming 'El Darwin' amp. Or at least a simple switch? to select between the top two most prominent or average cathode bias settings. Several of the above tube classes have the same or very similar cathode bias values, however I don't know how to determine these values or where to look, although I have been able to locate data sheets for all tubes.
> 
> Thanks in advance...



Not really sure how much it impact's the sound never really tried them with a improper resistor.
Only the EL3N in a 6SN7 slot or 6J5 slot the same as a 6SN7 that tube sounds good as a driver with improper bias.
But not using it as a output tube so barely being driven. In the EL3N amp the driver is driven harder.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Aah some nice 6J5 round plate tubes.  You can get many of these in round plate.  I have to try some metal ones going to order some from ESRC for $4 each.



Wow, $4!  What a steal, these are some really great tubes.

BTW @attmci I am selling my Crackatwoa, so if you want to make fun of me, now is your chance.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Aah some nice 6J5 round plate tubes.  You can get many of these in round plate.  I have to try some metal ones going to order some from ESRC for $4 each.



Who is ESRC?


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Thanks v much for the refs and comments. I especially appreciate your extra cautions. I'd be very sad if I harmed headphones, ears, or the amp itself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This spreadsheet is really fantastic.  I've already referred to it several times since you sent me the link, so have already benefited from the time you put into it.  Great work.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Who is ESRC?



This is were I get most of my tubes. Stan is a great guy been dealing with him for at least 10 years.
http://www.esrcvacuumtubes.com/index.html


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Wow, $4!  What a steal, these are some really great tubes.
> 
> BTW @attmci I am selling my Crackatwoa, so if you want to make fun of me, now is your chance.


No, I will never do that. It's difficult to get rid something built by yourself. But at your situation (a fresh graduate with a good future, ), I would do the same.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> No, I will never do that. It's difficult to get rid something built by yourself. But at your situation (a fresh graduate with a good future, ), I would do the same.



Thanks  I will have a SET amp on the way next year and I have nowhere to put three amplifiers.  A lot of blood, sweat, and tears went into that build, someone will really enjoy it I think.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> 'tis a new tube day, straight from Japan
> 
> First up, a quad of Nippon Electric 6AS7G, one of the best 6AS7 I have heard, cost me $20.  A pair will be going to @2359glenn .  Good news, they all are free of shorts, test 105-110%, and are very quiet.
> 
> ...



Just had another gander at the "quad of Fivre 6C5G"

WOW!  They are SO beautiful


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Just had another gander at the "quad of Fivre 6C5G"
> 
> WOW!  They are SO beautiful





JazzVinyl said:


> Just had another gander at the "quad of Fivre 6C5G"
> 
> WOW!  They are SO beautiful




They sure are.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> Just had another gander at the "quad of Fivre 6C5G"
> 
> WOW!  They are SO beautiful



Thanks JV! Some of my most prized tubes, I was very fortunate to spot them.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks  I will have a SET amp on the way next year and I have nowhere to put three amplifiers.  A lot of blood, sweat, and tears went into that build, someone will really enjoy it I think.



That is a beautiful amplifier and it is easy to see the work you put into it.
You have a nice talent that you can replace parts in your amp (s)


----------



## chrisdrop

JazzVinyl said:


> Using multiples in the power section, the gain stays at the factor as for one tube...ie 6x 6BL7 - total amplification factor of 10



So for example (given my setup, HEXFRED+Lundahl, 13a available): 
6BX7 amplification factor = 10
6x 6BL7 = total amplification factor of 10
For powers, 1.5 amps * 6 = 9
---
For driver, say we use a 6SN7 
6SN7 amplification factor = 20
amps = .6 amps
----
total amps = 9.6 amps
total amplification factor (assuming additive) = 30​
So the 6x 6BL7, given that the gain is the same, is it a matter of preference as to use 4x or 6x? For arguments sake, why not 2x? Different sound? Desire to use more amperage? Something else?


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> This is were I get most of my tubes. Stan is a great guy been dealing with him for at least 10 years.
> http://www.esrcvacuumtubes.com/index.html



Thanks!


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> So for example (given my setup, HEXFRED+Lundahl, 13a available):
> 6BX7 amplification factor = 10
> 6x 6BL7 = total amplification factor of 10
> For powers, 1.5 amps * 6 = 9
> ...



Power tubes add current to drive the headphone drivers.

Do whatever sounds the best!  I like 6x but many folks do just fine with 4x.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Do you use the EL11 as drivers much and if so with what power tubes ?


Not much, but I did use them some. *To my ears*, they're smoother and cleaner sounding than most 6SN7 (and 12SN7) drivers.


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> Know your amp sockets/ tubes compatibility (thanks @Zachik): Glenn OTL Tube Compatibility Table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHcgqSa16WqaAjwUYoE3eZlSfmaSluQFVYqY1pry-NI/edit#gid=0


You're most welcome my friend!


----------



## Zachik

Sound Trooper said:


> I’m kinda hesitating as if have so many pairs of EL3N tubes.


I am willing to buy a few from you - *PM me*.
I have not bought ANY backups / spares for my upcoming 6EL3N, yet...


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


>



Matt - what is the total height of your bottom shelf in which the GOTL lives?
I am trying to make sure I leave enough height for my GOTL in my new adjustable AV rack.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> Using Atticus and Bendix 6080 power tubes listening to some Snowy White.


 Criminally under rated bluesman and guitarist.


Zachik said:


> Matt - what is the total height of your bottom shelf in which the GOTL lives?
> I am trying to make sure I leave enough height for my GOTL in my new adjustable AV rack.


 Zachi,I sent you dimensions awhile back. Do you need them again?


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Zachi,I sent you dimensions awhile back. Do you need them again?


Got them, thanks Darren, but I cannot afford that much in my rack... too much other crap in there  
Seems like @UntilThen uses much less height, so if that works well without cooking the Yggy above it - I may take cue from him.  
For now, I have set the shelf for 12.5" (32cm). That would probably provide 2 or 3 inches of clearance above the tallest config (with tall tubes and adapters).  Just trying to make sure that is enough


----------



## Monsterzero

Just remember that heat rises,so I'd place my GOTL at minimum at eye level,and if you can place your DAC below it. If your rack is enclosed on the sides that might be a lot of heat in a closed space.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Criminally under rated bluesman and guitarist.



Yes sir, he most certainly is.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Zachik said:


> Got them, thanks Darren, but I cannot afford that much in my rack... too much other crap in there
> Seems like @UntilThen uses much less height, so if that works well without cooking the Yggy above it - I may take cue from him.
> For now, I have set the shelf for 12.5" (32cm). That would probably provide 2 or 3 inches of clearance above the tallest config (with tall tubes and adapters).  Just trying to make sure that is enough



Do as @mordy does, and include a fan.


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> Just remember that heat rises,so I'd place my GOTL at minimum at eye level,and if you can place your DAC below it. If your rack is enclosed on the sides that might be a lot of heat in a closed space.



Tubes are indeed very hot



GDuss said:


> I stuck with 5998 and C3g for another evening.  Still need more time with this combo to figure it out.  It's hot though.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Matt - what is the total height of your bottom shelf in which the GOTL lives?
> I am trying to make sure I leave enough height for my GOTL in my new adjustable AV rack.



I'll measure at daybreak. Can't find the measurement tape now.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Got them, thanks Darren, but I cannot afford that much in my rack... too much other crap in there
> Seems like @UntilThen uses much less height, so if that works well without cooking the Yggy above it - I may take cue from him.
> For now, I have set the shelf for 12.5" (32cm). That would probably provide 2 or 3 inches of clearance above the tallest config (with tall tubes and adapters).  Just trying to make sure that is enough



Don't follow my rack. It looks neat and flushed but I would have preferred one with more space in between and not glass shelves. So I'm looking to buy another shelve. A 5 shelves rack. https://www.selby.com.au/tv-brackets-stands/hi-fi-racks/solidsteel-s2-5-shelf-rack-black.html


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks  I will have a SET amp on the way next year and I have nowhere to put three amplifiers.  A lot of blood, sweat, and tears went into that build, someone will really enjoy it I think.



My problem too. I've no more space in my rack and the Sansui(s) are not even in there, so nothing to drive the speakers now while I play around with the 3 tube amps. 

I think I'm crazy enough to sell all 3 tube amps early next year when I get Berlin and then I would want a Glenn 300b amp simply because I love the sound of 300b tubes and in a SET configuration, I can imagine it's going to be spectacular. Although I might want to keep at least 1 of the 3 amps but as of now I just can't choose which one because they are all good. Not just good, they are all quiet. I am not plagued by noise that I hear from some WA22 owners.

The amps have the following tubes and I've no desire to swap the tubes. They sound great in them.

GOTL
Mullard ECC33 with 6 x GE 6bx7gt

Studio Six
Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, 2 x Brimar 6V6, 2 x Mullard OB2, Mullard GZ34 (Blackburn)

Woo Audio WA22
GEC U52, Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp, Bendix 6080wb

First time I love my tube amps so much and not just one but ALL 3.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm starting to appreciate Yggdrasil even more now. It has 2 sets of xlr out and 2 sets of rca out. So it can feed 4 tube amps and I don't need a preamp. It's pretty neutral and that's how I like my DAC. I'll add the colours with my tube amps.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> My problem too. I've no more space in my rack and the Sansui(s) are not even in there, so nothing to drive the speakers now while I play around with the 3 tube amps.
> 
> I think I'm crazy enough to sell all 3 tube amps early next year when I get Berlin and then I would want a Glenn 300b amp simply because I love the sound of 300b tubes and in a SET configuration, I can imagine it's going to be spectacular. Although I might want to keep at least 1 of the 3 amps but as of now I just can't choose which one because they are all good. Not just good, they are all quiet. I am not plagued by noise that I hear from some WA22 owners.
> 
> ...



If only we had more ears to wear headphones on  I am certain I will be keeping my GOTL no matter what amps come next.  Just think, how many GOTLs are there in the world?  50 maybe?  75?  I am just guessing, but they are not being produced in large numbers, each is special and one of very few.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> If only we had more ears to wear headphones on  I am certain I will be keeping my GOTL no matter what amps come next.  Just think, how many GOTLs are there in the world?  50 maybe?  75?  I am just guessing, but they are not being produced in large numbers, each is special and one of very few.



I think I've invested more in my GOTL than anyone. It has gone for a full sockets replacements. Some caps and resistors replacement and some things that Will did.  So yeah getting rid of it will be hard especially when I've shared so many pictures of it. More than any of my other tube amps. It's the most photographed of my tube amps. 

You can try wearing multiple headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am certain I will be keeping my GOTL no matter what amps come next. Just think, how many GOTLs are there in the world? 50 maybe? 75? I am just guessing, but they are not being produced in large numbers, each is special and one of very few.



I know GOTL is produced in limited numbers but these are even more limited numbers. I can't stop looking at them and speculating how they will sound. Do you think I'll have time for other tube amps after getting these?  

So one more time for multiple postings because I've to get them together. 

Thanks to your mock up, I think this will Spezial !
 

And this 300b belonging to diminches is the most beautiful of them all IMO and my eyes waters just looking at it. It's drool worthy.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Just remember that heat rises,so I'd place my GOTL at minimum at eye level,and if you can place your DAC below it. If your rack is enclosed on the sides that might be a lot of heat in a closed space.


Going to place DAC on low shelf, 6EL3N above DAC, and GOTL above the 6EL3N. 
Motivation is: 6EL3N gonna be heavier, so better to keep lower for stability, plus as far as I understand the EL3N tubes run much cooler than GOTL tubes (6AS7 / 6080 / etc.)

Also, my rack does NOT have enclosed sides... This is the one I got:
https://www.peerless-av.com/products/avl


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Don't follow my rack. It looks neat and flushed but I would have preferred one with more space in between and not glass shelves. So I'm looking to buy another shelve. A 5 shelves rack. https://www.selby.com.au/tv-brackets-stands/hi-fi-racks/solidsteel-s2-5-shelf-rack-black.html


Seems like height is 22cm - I set mine to 32cm... Matt, unless GOTL will reside on the very top - you might not have enough clearance for some of the taller tubes with adapters!


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Going to place DAC on low shelf, 6EL3N above DAC, and GOTL above the 6EL3N.
> Motivation is: 6EL3N gonna be heavier, so better to keep lower for stability, plus as far as I understand the EL3N tubes run much cooler than GOTL tubes (6AS7 / 6080 / etc.)
> 
> Also, my rack does NOT have enclosed sides... This is the one I got:
> https://www.peerless-av.com/products/avl



OMG that is the 300b of all racks ! 

With a rack like that, it doesn't matter which item goes where. There's enough ventilation !


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Seems like height is 22cm - I set mine to 32cm... Matt, unless GOTL will reside on the very top - you might not have enough clearance for some of the taller tubes with adapters!



I don't have a choice. WA22 can't fit in the bottom. Studio Six has to go into the 2nd slot and Yggy only place is the 3rd slot. It is how it should be ..... for now, until I get your mother of all rack !


----------



## UntilThen

I'm thinking of buying this but I don't know how to get it home. Besides it's not classy enough.


----------



## UntilThen

This is what I want but it's $2050 per shelve !!!


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> I'm thinking of buying this but I don't know how to get it home. Besides it's not classy enough.


I was actually considering a butcher block on the shelf above the GOTL, to thermally isolate the components there from the heat coming from below!
Unfortunately, the 2 inches of height might be more than I can afford to lose.


----------



## 2359glenn

A fan is a good idea but the noise would drive me crazy.


----------



## leftside (Oct 12, 2019)

I know this post is only of relevance to those of us with turntables, but I did promise to follow up after I'd been using the Analog Magik software.

It was easy to setup and also easy to use. I've attached the reading of the azimuth, but the software helps to set much more than that. For azimuth, the crosstalk values should be similar for the left and right channel with a variance of preferably less than 0.5 db. My readings after minor adjustments are -28.16 db  and -28.25 db. I've also done speed and wow and flutter settings/adjustments. VTA, anti-skating, loading, VTF, gain, vibration and resonance will be saved foanother day.
https://www.analogmagik.com/azimuth

Perhaps I'll now do a part-time job of setting up peoples turntables in their own homes


----------



## JazzVinyl

The pair of NOS 1944 Tung Sol 12J5’s arrived today.  

Absolutely beautiful and definitely had never been out of the box:

More than 75 years later, these tubes surface, to be called to duty, in the GOTL!!


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> I know this post is only of relevance to those of us with turntables, but I did promise to follow up after I'd been using the Analog Magik software.
> 
> It was easy to setup and also easy to use. I've attached the reading of the azimuth, but the software helps to set much more than that. For azimuth, the crosstalk values should be similar for the left and right channel with a variance of preferably less than 0.5 db. My readings after minor adjustments are -28.16 db  and -28.25 db. I've also done speed and wow and flutter settings/adjustments. VTA, anti-skating, loading, VTF, gain, vibration and resonance will be saved foanother day.
> https://www.analogmagik.com/azimuth
> ...



This test was done with the arm at what angle? the cross talk changes as the arm gets near the center of the record.
I have a old Rabco ST7 in line tracking a good idea but could have been implemented better.
The turn table is 40 years old now but still works fine. Has a Ortofon MC cartridge probably better stuff now but still works for me. 

Doing that on the side job is a good idea if there are many people with turntables near you.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> I know this post is only of relevance to those of us with turntables, but I did promise to follow up after I'd been using the Analog Magik software.
> 
> It was easy to setup and also easy to use. I've attached the reading of the azimuth, but the software helps to set much more than that. For azimuth, the crosstalk values should be similar for the left and right channel with a variance of preferably less than 0.5 db. My readings after minor adjustments are -28.16 db  and -28.25 db. I've also done speed and wow and flutter settings/adjustments. VTA, anti-skating, loading, VTF, gain, vibration and resonance will be saved foanother day.
> https://www.analogmagik.com/azimuth
> ...



Excellent!!!!

If your using the GOTL via turntable...oh my that is a special treat, and incredibly wonderful.  

Table all dialed in!! Good deal!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I know GOTL is produced in limited numbers but these are even more limited numbers. I can't stop looking at them and speculating how they will sound. Do you think I'll have time for other tube amps after getting these?
> 
> So one more time for multiple postings because I've to get them together.
> 
> ...



There will be time to stroll down memory lane  who knows, perhaps you will long for a change in sound that is not EL12spez after some time.  My eyes are watering too looking at my mock up, but I'm not sure it is from beauty.  I could make a better one in Photoshop, but it might ruin the surprise!  No doubt it will be a great looking amp, I love the look of those tubes.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> This test was done with the arm at what angle? the cross talk changes as the arm gets near the center of the record.
> I have a old Rabco ST7 in line tracking a good idea but could have been implemented better.
> The turn table is 40 years old now but still works fine. Has a Ortofon MC cartridge probably better stuff now but still works for me.
> 
> Doing that on the side job is a good idea if there are many people with turntables near you.


I'm finding that one adjustment here affects another adjustment there. It's the way it goes with turntables. It's a compromise between all the various settings. VTA (vertical tracking alignment) and arm angle adjustment will be done tomorrow  All the settings up until now have been done manually using the naked (deteriorating) eyes, supplied VPI tools, watching YouTube videos and with a Fozgometer for azimuth. The software is much better than the Foz. It's a good hobby. Well, at least my wife says "it's better than going to strip clubs I guess".


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> The pair of NOS 1944 Tung Sol 12J5’s arrived today.
> 
> Absolutely beautiful and definitely had never been out of the box:
> 
> More than 75 years later, these tubes surface, to be called to duty, in the GOTL!!



I have asked that seller for an unboxed photo of those tubes three times, and three times ignored!  Finally I get to see them and they look perfect, thanks JV, all working as expected?  Internally look the same as my 6J5G.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> This test was done with the arm at what angle? the cross talk changes as the arm gets near the center of the record.
> I have a old Rabco ST7 in line tracking a good idea but could have been implemented better.
> The turn table is 40 years old now but still works fine. Has a Ortofon MC cartridge probably better stuff now but still works for me.
> 
> Doing that on the side job is a good idea if there are many people with turntables near you.



The HK ST-7 table from your Harman Kardon days, 'eh Glenn?

Both my tables are HK presently, but both with pivoted arms.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have asked that seller for an unboxed photo of those tubes three times, and three times ignored!  Finally I get to see them and they look perfect, thanks JV, all working as expected?  Internally look the same as my 6J5G.



Yes!!  Work perfect!  Sound fantastic!!   
And yes, if he were to show them out of the box, would snapped up, quick!  All GOTL/dual 6J5 adapter owners, take note!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I know GOTL is produced in limited numbers but these are even more limited numbers. I can't stop looking at them and speculating how they will sound. Do you think I'll have time for other tube amps after getting these?
> 
> So one more time for multiple postings because I've to get them together.
> 
> ...



BTW M, what color are you going with for the chassis?  I am having a hang up trying to decide.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> The software is much better than the Foz. It's a good hobby. Well, at least my wife says "it's better than going to strip clubs I guess".



LOL, I tell my wife all the time "Hey, I am not a drunk, going out to bars, all the time" 

I decided many many moons ago, not to worry too much about the exact science of "dragging gemstone through plastic", and just do the necessary basic adjustments...and enjoy.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Got them, thanks Darren, but I cannot afford that much in my rack... too much other crap in there
> Seems like @UntilThen uses much less height, so if that works well without cooking the Yggy above it - I may take cue from him.
> For now, I have set the shelf for 12.5" (32cm). That would probably provide 2 or 3 inches of clearance above the tallest config (with tall tubes and adapters).  Just trying to make sure that is enough


Hi Zachik,
I would suggest scavenging a 4" PC fan and connect it to a 12V wall wart and mount it underneath the shelf above the amp - is such a way that it pulls air away from the amp.  This little tweak will lower the amp temperature at least 10C and if you have the parts around won't cost you anything.....


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 12, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> BTW M, what color are you going with for the chassis?  I am having a hang up trying to decide.



You’re my designer so you tell me what colour. Gold ? 

Gold and grey tubes. Bad ass.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> So for example (given my setup, HEXFRED+Lundahl, 13a available):
> 6BX7 amplification factor = 10
> 6x 6BL7 = total amplification factor of 10
> For powers, 1.5 amps * 6 = 9
> ...


Hi chrisdrop,
Agree with what everybody says, but one more thing:
If you use 12V tubes, make sure to set the switch back to 6V when you change back to 6V tubes. Glenn designed the amp so that the blue light does not go on (no power) when the amp detects the wrong voltage, BUT - it only works if no adapter is involved with the driver tube.
So if you use a driver tube with an adapter for 12V, be extra careful when you change the voltage since you could damage the tube with the wrong voltage.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 12, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> You’re my designer so you tell me what colour. Gold ?
> 
> Gold and grey tubes. Bad ass.



I've thought about the gold myself, the chassis they did for Pete Millett is very attractive.



They also have done these two-tone chassis in the past,


I would say if you wanted to go with a very "severe" looking amp, you could see if they could do a gunmetal gray, which would match the look of the tubes well.

I reached out to them to see what color options they have, sounds like it is constantly changing, here is what they said:

"Thanks for your interest in our chassis.

We do have some color choices, but they're limited to what the plating shop has available.  The shop we use regularly has black, grey, green, violet, dark blue and clear (no dye).  Pictures of green, violet and dark blue are attached.  They couldn't tell me which of the green samples they have, but I think it's one of the darker shades.  Color will vary from the samples, but this should give you a good idea.

There's another shop in town that does other colors, but they're generally close to $100 for anything and I don't know what colors they currently have.  I can check if you want."


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've thought about the gold myself, the chassis they did for Pete Millett is very attractive.
> 
> 
> They also have done these two-tone chassis in the past,
> ...



Going to build one in dark blue shortly.
Building a wooden amp now to match someones ZMF phones. A pain in the butt working on a wooden chassis


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Going to build one in dark blue shortly.
> Building a wooden amp now to match someones ZMF phones. A pain in the butt working on a wooden chassis



Is that something you order, Glenn, or cut yourself?  Would love to see how it turns out.

Here is another two-tone, this one in gold/silver (or white?)


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Is that something you order, Glenn, or cut yourself?  Would love to see how it turns out.
> 
> Here is another two-tone, this one in gold/silver (or white?)



Like that one...


----------



## UntilThen

A lot of nice colour choices. Black with grey EL tubes looks pretty good too but gunmetal grey would have Telefunken written all over it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

What tubes is everyone running tonight?

I have the Toshiba 12AU7 in...tried to dig it without the EL32's in...but no dice, the EL32's add so much texture and depth that I am hopelessly addicted at this point 

So....it is:
Toshiba 12AU7 / Mullard EL32 straight bottles / RCA 6AS7G

The RCA's are just an old old pair I have had forever...never get any air time...but Glenn does wonders with them.

One thing I like about this set...is complete silence!  They are "Glenn quiet" (Glenn loves quiet tubes) no hint of buzz or hiss or hum.

Sounds dreamy good in the old Senn's, Y'all...playing this:


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 12, 2019)

Hi guys I'm trying to confirm the cathode bias ohm values for all the power tubes I (may) use on my upcoming Glenn EL amp so I can come up with a solid plan on if a cathode resistor bias knob would be useful, and which settings it should be at. Here's what I've come up with so far but I need help confirming these values. Maybe someone with a Radiomuseum account can help me? And perhaps @gibosi or @mordy ...

The Cathode bias ohm (Ω) values are usually shown as "Rk". (Thanks to @JazzVinyl )
Here's what I have so far, with the incomplete in purple:

EL3N 150Ω
EL12 90 or 2x250 Ω?
EL12 Spez  2x400 Ω?
EL32 480 Ω
EL34 120 Ω
EL38 120 Ω
EL39 the 4654 has 175 Ω?
6V6, 6L6 could not find these. Does not have cathode bias?
7581A (replacement for the 6L6GC)...

KT66 "330 for class A or 600 Ω for triode connection"??)
KT77 has no cathode bias??
Some of these show a different cathode bias for pentode and triode. I believe my 'El Darwin' (GEL3N based) amp will be a SET (single ended triode) amp so would that use the specs for a pentode, or a triode strapped pentode amp?


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> Hi guys I'm trying to confirm the cathode bias ohm values for all the power tubes I (may) use on my upcoming Glenn EL amp so I can come up with a solid plan on if a cathode resistor bias knob would be useful, and which settings it should be at. Here's what I've come up with so far but I need help confirming these values. Maybe someone with a Radiomuseum account can help me? And perhaps @gibosi or @mordy ...
> 
> The Cathode bias ohm (Ω) values are usually shown as "Rk". (Thanks to @JazzVinyl )
> Here's what I have so far, with the incomplete in purple:
> ...



Don't forget that the actual voltage that gets applied to the plate will also dictate the correct bias resistor value.  Unless the amp is built to the examples in the datasheet...

The Rk values will differ from what is shown.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> A fan is a good idea but the noise would drive me crazy.





mordy said:


> Hi Zachik,
> I would suggest scavenging a 4" PC fan and connect it to a 12V wall wart and mount it underneath the shelf above the amp - is such a way that it pulls air away from the amp.  This little tweak will lower the amp temperature at least 10C and if you have the parts around won't cost you anything.....



Well..... maybe I should take the fan idea to the next level. Something like this to add to my AV rack:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZQPDB7...olid=28DHRDAQWV6AE&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Glenn - this one is very quiet. Rated at 10 to 36 dBA (depending on fan speed of course).  Since my rack is NOT enclosed, I just need a little bit of air movement, so lowest speed is probably enough!
Now the dilemma is: 1U, 2U or 3U unit?  
Probably the 2U is a nice in-between size!


----------



## DecentLevi

JazzVinyl said:


> Don't forget that the actual voltage that gets applied to the plate will also dictate the correct bias resistor value.  Unless the amp is built to the examples in the datasheet...
> 
> The Rk values will differ from what is shown.


I see, but I'm just trying to gather a list of the approx. resistor values needed to run most of the at an optimal bias so any recommended resistor values or what not would be helpful to implement these variety of tubes correctly.


----------



## DecentLevi

@2359glenn please see my post above. I may go with just a 150 / 480 Ω switch on the front or back, or just keep it at 150 Ω accordingly once we find the rest of these values, but please see my post above. I think you have the answer to these...


----------



## gibosi

DecentLevi said:


> @2359glenn please see my post above. I may go with just a 150 / 480 Ω switch on the front or back, or just keep it at 150 Ω accordingly once we find the rest of these values, but please see my post above. I think you have the answer to these...



With all due respect I believe you are getting in way over your head. Give Glenn a list of the output tubes you want to run and let him figure this out. After all, designing amps is what he does.


----------



## DecentLevi

gibosi said:


> With all due respect I believe you are getting in way over your head. Give Glenn a list of the output tubes you want to run and let him figure this out. After all, designing amps is what he does.


I have already sent him the list but didn't get an enthusiastic response to this concept, perhaps because I will already have three knobs (including volume) on the front of my amp. So I'm trying to come up with a simplified plan - or I may even scrap the idea and go with just the EL3N bias around 150 Ω depending on the info. I get from the list above. 

Would someone at least help me determine the cathode bias settings for EL39, 7581A and KT66? I'm pretty sure the 6L6 / 6V6 and 7581A are the same, as well as KT66 / 77, so at least those 3 would be super helpful. This would also be useful FYI for the Euforia folks too. Maybe @hypnos1 knows some of them. Thanks


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Hi guys I'm trying to confirm the cathode bias ohm values for all the power tubes I (may) use on my upcoming Glenn EL amp so I can come up with a solid plan on if a cathode resistor bias knob would be useful, and which settings it should be at. Here's what I've come up with so far but I need help confirming these values. Maybe someone with a Radiomuseum account can help me? And perhaps @gibosi or @mordy ...
> 
> The Cathode bias ohm (Ω) values are usually shown as "Rk". (Thanks to @JazzVinyl )
> Here's what I have so far, with the incomplete in purple:
> ...


Hi DL,
I don't think that you need a radio museum account to access that site.
And I concur with the opinion that it is best to leave the amp design to the designer. In all likelihood there are many more design variables to take into account.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> I don't think that you need a radio museum account to access that site.
> And I concur with the opinion that it is best to leave the amp design to the designer. In all likelihood there are many more design variables to take into account.



Like these?

https://robrobinette.com/Tube_Bias_Calculator.htm


----------



## Monsterzero

@mordy Hows that HD250 treating you? I absolutely love my pair thru the GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

Good day all. I visited the Canberra Space Centre today and it was a beautiful sunny day at 19 degree C. and I'm here to tell Glenn that if he comes and visit me, I'll take him to see and hear for himself if there's life in the outer galaxy. Maybe the aliens have a better headphone amp than us?


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've thought about the gold myself, the chassis they did for Pete Millett is very attractive.
> 
> 
> They also have done these two-tone chassis in the past,
> ...



All these gorgeous colour options are making my eyes bleed. 

Can you do a photoshop of Gunmetal grey with tubes, Vintage gold with tubes, Navy Blue with tubes and Black with tubes. Remember the Lundahl transformer cover are black in colour... unless I have a choice of colour? That would be amazing !!!  

I'll pay $5 a photoshop.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> @mordy Hows that HD250 treating you? I absolutely love my pair thru the GOTL.


I bought it based on your recommendation. Progress marches on, but if we can use 70 year old tubes and 35 year old amps, why not a 20 year old headphone?
For sure, the price/performance ratio is excellent!
I really do like the Sennheiser HD250II. It is very comfortable and relaxing to listen to. The bass and sub bass is unusually detailed and beautiful timbre overall. Other headphones may excel in speed and dynamics, but the overall presentation is excellent-this oldie compares well with some newer and much more expensive items.


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Well..... maybe I should take the fan idea to the next level. Something like this to add to my AV rack:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZQPDB7...olid=28DHRDAQWV6AE&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
> 
> Glenn - this one is very quiet. Rated at 10 to 36 dBA (depending on fan speed of course).  Since my rack is NOT enclosed, I just need a little bit of air movement, so lowest speed is probably enough!
> ...



The fan will make a bid difference in heat buildup.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> All these gorgeous colour options are making my eyes bleed.
> 
> Can you do a photoshop of Gunmetal grey with tubes, Vintage gold with tubes, Navy Blue with tubes and Black with tubes. Remember the Lundahl transformer cover are black in colour... unless I have a choice of colour? That would be amazing !!!
> 
> I'll pay $5 a photoshop.



I'll get right on that M, however, I only take payment in well-cultivated orchids these days, new company policy.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Doing more SET planning, I am going to follow suit and go with tube rectification in this amp.  The aesthetic appeal of a beautiful rectifier between the power tubes is undeniable.  I am peaking down this rabbit hole, it is so deep...

I have learned from past experience to go all in rather than making incremental tube upgrades knowing I will get to the top anyway.  With that being said, time to start perusing "must have" rectifiers.  I will be combing the thread, but any recommendations are welcome.  From memory, the top dawgs are the Western Electric 422A, Cossor 53KU (the fatty), and the GEC U52.

Unless opinions change when my adapter comes from Deyan, this amp will feature beautiful pre-war MH4/REN904 driver tubes, some globe-type mesh rectifiers might be nice too to fit the theme  although I know they will need to be adapted.  The thought of putting a B4 socket in the amp and committing to 4V rectifiers has crossed my mind, but may not be practical, have to look into this further.  This ought to keep me busy for a while.


----------



## 2359glenn (Oct 13, 2019)

The 4 volt rectifiers can be gotten much cheaper then the 5 volt ones. Like the GEC U18/20 is much cheaper then the U52.
And they are still plentiful as most amps can't use them.
Plus I can get another one of those nice B4/B5 Korean sockets. Makes me think about my preamp
I am using a GZ37 maybe a 4 volt would be better.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> With all due respect I believe you are getting in way over your head. Give Glenn a list of the output tubes you want to run and let him figure this out. After all, designing amps is what he does.


Hey, one of those tubes could be sounds much better to someone, and forget about the designs. JK


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Doing more SET planning, I am going to follow suit and go with tube rectification in this amp.  The aesthetic appeal of a beautiful rectifier between the power tubes is undeniable.  I am peaking down this rabbit hole, it is so deep...
> 
> I have learned from past experience to go all in rather than making incremental tube upgrades knowing I will get to the top anyway.  With that being said, time to start perusing "must have" rectifiers.  I will be combing the thread, but any recommendations are welcome.  From memory, the top dawgs are the Western Electric 422A, Cossor 53KU (the fatty), and the GEC U52.
> 
> Unless opinions change when my adapter comes from Deyan, this amp will feature beautiful pre-war MH4/REN904 driver tubes, some globe-type mesh rectifiers might be nice too to fit the theme  although I know they will need to be adapted.  The thought of putting a B4 socket in the amp and committing to 4V rectifiers has crossed my mind, but may not be practical, have to look into this further.  This ought to keep me busy for a while.


Listen to Glenn's suggestion. Those rectifier tubes are waste of your hard earn $ on your future amp.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 13, 2019)

The Tung Sol 6J5 tubes are in the GOTL last night and this morning.

Keenan these are all great tubes and all in NOS condition...thanks for the audition.
They will be back on their way to Cleveland on Tuesday.

My thoughts are that all 3 are wonderful . Truly different tones from three different tubes.

My favorites.
GEC L63....gives the most from top to bottom...best of the Sylvania's and Tung Sol all in one.
Sylvania...very detailed...great extension on both ends...I had no trouble with fatigue listening to for fours hours straight.
Tung Sol.....So lush and easy to listen too. I can listen to these for 24 hours straight, no problem.

I will get the GEC, probably straight glass and coke bottle and also some Sylvania's.
I will pass on the Tung Sol's , but only because I have many different versions of 6F8G, 6SN7 and 12SN7 and they all have the round plates.

Thinking seriously about using these in the new amp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 13, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> The 4 volt rectifiers can be gotten much cheaper then the 5 volt ones. Like the GEC U18/20 is much cheaper then the U52.
> And they are still plentiful as most amps can't use them.
> Plus I can get another one of those nice B4/B5 Korean sockets. Makes me think about my preamp
> I am using a GZ37 maybe a 4 volt would be better.



That is a strong argument.  The more I am reading, the more appealing the idea becomes.  Was looking over @gibosi 's helpful post here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-874#post-12526829

Prices like these would be great, would love avoid spending thousands on rectifiers, may even grab one of these now before they are gone, will check construction first: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AU1-U18-20...126678?hash=item3f86f4c096:g:1hEAAOSwjp9deocW

If I feel the urge to empty my bank account, could always hunt down a Telefunken RGN4004.  And I would never argue with putting another beautiful Korean socket in the amp.  Heck, maybe I'll throw in some 4V power tubes and scrap the 6L6/KT66/EL34, I'll call the amp the Glenn4V  kidding, sort of.  The gentleman I bought my Marconi MH4 tubes from, who is an amp builder himself, recommended several obscure output tubes to me.  Too many unknowns I think to experiment, but interesting nonetheless:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ptt205.html
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ptt203.html
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_46.html
E130SFR (doesn't even have a Radiomuseum page, I believe this is equivalent https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_rs242.html)
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_at15.html


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> The Tung Sol 6J5 tubes are in the GOTL last night and this morning.
> 
> Keenan these are all great tubes and all in NOS condition...thanks for the audition.
> They will be back on their way to Cleveland on Tuesday.
> ...



Glad you've enjoyed them, Joe!  And there are many more to experiment with: Visseaux 6J5G, RFT 6J5, Fivre 6J5GT, Fivre 6C5G, Brimar 6J5G, Sicte 6J5GT, not to mention all of the American tubes, the list goes on...

You cannot go wrong with the GEC, arguably the best made, which is no surprise given the MOV track record, easily in my top five drivers, if not number one.  Would be happy to let you borrow them again if you ever needed to.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 13, 2019)

Like the look of the RS242 power tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> The Tung Sol 6J5 tubes are in the GOTL last night and this morning.
> 
> Keenan these are all great tubes and all in NOS condition...thanks for the audition.
> They will be back on their way to Cleveland on Tuesday.
> ...



Sounds good!

Do wish there had been a pair of NU 12J5's in there to have compared, as well.   They are my current favorites.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glad you've enjoyed them, Joe!  And there are many more to experiment with: Visseaux 6J5G, RFT 6J5, Fivre 6J5GT, Fivre 6C5G, Brimar 6J5G, Sicte 6J5GT, not to mention all of the American tubes, the list goes on...
> 
> You cannot go wrong with the GEC, arguably the best made, which is no surprise given the MOV track record, easily in my top five drivers, if not number one.  Would be happy to let you borrow them again if you ever needed to.



Yes!!  Gimme gimme gimme!!


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> That is a strong argument.  The more I am reading, the more appealing the idea becomes.  Was looking over @gibosi 's helpful post here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-874#post-12526829
> 
> Prices like these would be great, would love avoid spending thousands on rectifiers, may even grab one of these now before they are gone, will check construction first: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AU1-U18-20...126678?hash=item3f86f4c096:g:1hEAAOSwjp9deocW
> 
> ...



I have some experience with the #46 tube used to make adapters for people to use them in a #45  amp.
You can ask Tyrell  @Xcalibur255 how they sound in his 45 amp.
They are a odd tube and can be hooked up in two ways. they seem to sound great to me but you will only get 1 watt out of them.

Personally I think you should get a good pair of EL34s for the amp good sounding and still in production if the NOS ones run out.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 13, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> I have some experience with the #46 tube used to make adapters for people to use them in a #45  amp.
> You can ask Tyrell  @Xcalibur255 how they sound in his 45 amp.
> They are a odd tube and can be hooked up in two ways. they seem to sound great to me but you will only get 1 watt out of them.
> 
> Personally I think you should get a good pair of EL34s for the amp good sounding and still in production if the NOS ones run out.



Thanks, Glenn.  I am with you, think I will stick to the original EL34/KT66/6L6 type plan, NOS EL34 aren't too pricey.

I've spent the whole morning reading, I am going to go with 4V rectifiers in the amp, I am seeing there are lots of good options and not too expensive, excluding the mesh Telefunkens.  Any ballpark on what the rectifier current requirements would be in this setup?  As of right now it looks like this:

Rectifier: B4 socket for 4V rectifiers
Input: octal sockets for 6J5, B5 sockets for MH4  (either or)
Output: octal sockets for EL34/KT66/KT63/6L6

That Korean socket maker does a B4 version missing the center pin.  Not that it matters really, but kind of nice for the sake of neatness:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-PX4-R...618974?hash=item19d4d089de:g:4NgAAOSwIVhaRcd9

Edit: I hope that shipping figure is a mistake...wow.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks, Glenn.  I am with you, think I will stick to the original EL34/KT66/6L6 type plan, NOS EL34 aren't too pricey.
> 
> I've spent the whole morning reading, I am going to go with 4V rectifiers in the amp, I am seeing there are lots of good options and not too expensive, excluding the mesh Telefunkens.  Any ballpark on what the rectifier current requirements would be in this setup?  As of right now it looks like this:
> 
> ...




This looks pretty kick butt!


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks, Glenn.  I am with you, think I will stick to the original EL34/KT66/6L6 type plan, NOS EL34 aren't too pricey.
> 
> I've spent the whole morning reading, I am going to go with 4V rectifiers in the amp, I am seeing there are lots of good options and not too expensive, excluding the mesh Telefunkens.  Any ballpark on what the rectifier current requirements would be in this setup?  As of right now it looks like this:
> 
> ...



That is them I don't know why the shipping is so much more I paid $23 for shipping the 5 pin ones.
They don't make octal sockets though maybe can use Yamamoto sockets for the octal sockets.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> That is them I don't know why the shipping is so much more I paid $23 for shipping the 5 pin ones.
> They don't make octal sockets though maybe can use Yamamoto sockets for the octal sockets.



You read my mind, I was looking at octal Yamamotos right as you said this.

Would the RGN2004/G2004/1561 family of rectifiers be enough in this amp at 155mA, Glenn?  Some of these are surprisingly affordable, I know the GEL3N draws around 100mA.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> You read my mind, I was looking at octal Yamamotos right as you said this.
> 
> Would the RGN2004/G2004/1561 family of rectifiers be enough in this amp at 155mA, Glenn?  Some of these are surprisingly affordable, I know the GEL3N draws around 100mA.



I would say get a rectifier at least 120ma You can find RGN2004 mesh plate for not much money.
Pretty tube especially when lit.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> I would say get a rectifier at least 120ma You can find RGN2004 mesh plate for not much money.
> Pretty tube especially when lit.



Fantastic, maybe if I can spot a deal I will.  Okay, that's enough questions for today, thanks Glenn, have a nice Sunday everyone.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Fantastic, maybe if I can spot a deal I will.  Okay, that's enough questions for today, thanks Glenn, have a nice Sunday everyone.



Today building a wooden amp for someone that wants it to go with his ZMF phones.
Kinda fun project something different.  Smaller has 4 tubes rectifier 6SN7 and two 6AS7s
A simple nice little amp that will sound great.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Today building a wooden amp for someone that wants it to go with his ZMF phones.
> Kinda fun project something different.  Smaller has 4 tubes rectifier 6SN7 and two 6AS7s
> A simple nice little amp that will sound great.



Hope we get to see a photo of it


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 13, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I'll get right on that M, however, I only take payment in well-cultivated orchids these days, new company policy.



Most of my orchids have gone to heaven but should you plan on a trip to Sydney, I'll take you on a road trip to Canberra to see the space telescopes and other attractions. 



L0rdGwyn said:


> Doing more SET planning, I am going to follow suit and go with tube rectification in this amp.  The aesthetic appeal of a beautiful rectifier between the power tubes is undeniable.  I am peaking down this rabbit hole, it is so deep...
> 
> I have learned from past experience to go all in rather than making incremental tube upgrades knowing I will get to the top anyway.  With that being said, time to start perusing "must have" rectifiers.  I will be combing the thread, but any recommendations are welcome.  From memory, the top dawgs are the Western Electric 422A, Cossor 53KU (the fatty), and the GEC U52.
> 
> Unless opinions change when my adapter comes from Deyan, this amp will feature beautiful pre-war MH4/REN904 driver tubes, some globe-type mesh rectifiers might be nice too to fit the theme  although I know they will need to be adapted.  The thought of putting a B4 socket in the amp and committing to 4V rectifiers has crossed my mind, but may not be practical, have to look into this further.  This ought to keep me busy for a while.



Was going to suggest also the Mullard GZ34 metal base. GEC U52 and Cossor 53ku plus the Mullard GZ34 Blackburn are what I have and they sound gorgeous. If I find a WE422A, I'll pick it up one day. Don't think I need more rectifiers after that. Just as I was typing this, saw that you're already decided to go with 4 volt rectifier route. Gibosi is your man to talk to on 4 volt. He above anyone else that I know of, have tried and have compiled a ton of knowledge on 4 volts rectifiers.



2359glenn said:


> That is them I don't know why the shipping is so much more I paid $23 for shipping the 5 pin ones.
> They don't make octal sockets though maybe can use Yamamoto sockets for the octal sockets.



Glenn, korean or Yamamoto's sockets are ok for me but as Berlin only uses 5 sockets, all Yamamoto's sockets sounds good but.... their EL12 spez sockets have 10 pins slots. I know it can be use but it's kind of large.  It's actually for EL156 but can be used for EL152, EL153, AZ12, VF14, etc.

This is what you show me before. I don't mind. It's a rather bad ass looking socket.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks, Glenn. I am with you, think I will stick to the original EL34/KT66/6L6 type plan, NOS EL34 aren't too pricey.



I think that's a good plan. If not for Berlin, I'd have gone with EL34 or 2A3 as power tubes. 

EL12 spez is a predecessor of EL34. So there should be some similarities but not having heard a EL34 (except in the Blue Hawaii), I cannot be totally sure. I would need to hear both EL12 spez and EL34 in the same tube amp to know for sure. Anything else is speculation.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Personally I think you should get a good pair of EL34s for the amp good sounding and still in production if the NOS ones run out.



I agree on EL34 but if I was Leftside, I'll be using that quad Marconi KT66 that he has. That is a sick looking quad KT66. Priceless now.


----------



## UntilThen

There you go. Only Euro 999. Not much compared to a pair of Takatsuki 300b 

I hope though that at that price it's humphrey !

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-ORIGI...860107?hash=item1cdaea1c8b:g:rrEAAOSwB3BZ8MVF


----------



## UntilThen

Ha 16 bidders with 6 days to go. This auction of quad GEC KT66 will be read hot !

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Very-Un...a=1&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 13, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Most of my orchids have gone to heaven but should you plan on a trip to Sydney, I'll take you on a road trip to Canberra to see the space telescopes and other attractions.
> 
> Was going to suggest also the Mullard GZ34 metal base. GEC U52 and Cossor 53ku plus the Mullard GZ34 Blackburn are what I have and they sound gorgeous. If I find a WE422A, I'll pick it up one day. Don't think I need more rectifiers after that. Just as I was typing this, saw that you're already decided to go with 4 volt rectifier route. Gibosi is your man to talk to on 4 volt. He above anyone else that I know of, have tried and have compiled a ton of knowledge on 4 volts rectifiers.



I will let you know if I make it out thataways  have thought a nice vacation would be to Australia and a jaunt through Tasmania, but I cannot say when that will be, there are too many places in the world to go.

Yes, I am sure I will pick the brain of the great rectifier guru @gibosi , right now I am building my knowledge so I can ask him the right questions.



UntilThen said:


> I think that's a good plan. If not for Berlin, I'd have gone with EL34 or 2A3 as power tubes.



I would like to implement the patented "Leftside Cathode Bias Switch" for proper bias of EL34/KT66/6L6 output tubes.  Unfortunately for me, that would mean I also would need to buy a pair of KT66 

Right now, this is how I envision the layout of the amp.  Can you tell I have the weekend off? 

I also think I had a minor stroke when I saw how much a set of four octal Yamamotos cost, but I know I will do it anyway.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> I agree on EL34 but if I was Leftside, I'll be using that quad Marconi KT66 that he has. That is a sick looking quad KT66. Priceless now.


I'm just going for two EL34/KT66 in my amp. Also two 6J5 and a rectifier. This will be quite a "sane" amp - especially compared to the OTL amp I'm currently having built...


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> There you go. Only Euro 999. Not much compared to a pair of Takatsuki 300b
> 
> I hope though that at that price it's humphrey !
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-ORIGI...860107?hash=item1cdaea1c8b:g:rrEAAOSwB3BZ8MVF


Wow - the price is high on those. They're not even the earlier/more desirable black base with inverted cup getter... Langrex has them for cheaper and with better test results.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Ha 16 bidders with 6 days to go. This auction of quad GEC KT66 will be read hot !
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Very-Unique-4-x-GEC-KT66-Brown-base-Perfect-matched-Quad-in-Original-Boxes/193147774918?_trkparms=aid=1110001&algo=SPLICE.SIM&ao=2&asc=60386&meid=549c4ad1e84d456ca32eb7d116051fa4&pid=100008&rk=1&rkt=12&sd=254382224774&itm=193147774918&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219


Out of all the GEC KT66, these with the clear glass are the latest version (late 60's) and shouldn't go that high. But, who knows with eBay - especially if two bidders are looking for a nice quad...


----------



## UntilThen

K, so based on that mock up of your Kurisarimon amp, you will have sockets for 2 set of different drivers? That's pretty fancy.

I even thought of that initially PLUS 2 sets of of sockets for EL12 spez and 8pins octal for EL34, KT66, 6V6, 6L6 but in the end I decided to keep it KISS. 

Very tempted with what you got though because you can have infinite tones !


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I'm just going for two EL34/KT66 in my amp. Also two 6J5 and a rectifier. This will be quite a "sane" amp - especially compared to the OTL amp I'm currently having built...



Yeah the 'sane' amp or The Saint from the British series of long ago starring Roger Moore aka Simon Templar !!! .... will be an amazing amp that's for sure.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Yeah the 'sane' amp or The Saint from the British series of long ago starring Roger Moore aka Simon Templar !!! .... will be an amazing amp that's for sure.


"The Saint". I don't usually bother with names for my amps, but I think that's a good one. Thanks.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> K, so based on that mock up of your Kurisarimon amp, you will have sockets for 2 set of different drivers? That's pretty fancy.
> 
> I even thought of that initially PLUS 2 sets of of sockets for EL12 spez and 8pins octal for EL34, KT66, 6V6, 6L6 but in the end I decided to keep it KISS.
> 
> Very tempted with what you got though because you can have infinite tones !



Yes, two sets of driver sockets.  I have fallen in love with the 6J5 and have a happy and successful relationship with them...but I am lusting after the MH4/REN904 family and I am expecting very big things from these tubes.  They use different sockets and run at different voltages, so two sets makes the most sense.  Will also allow for adapters to be used for 6.3V and 4V single triode tubes if it comes to it, but there will be so many options already I don't _think_ it will, but you never can know with these tube rollers.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> "The Saint". I don't usually bother with names for my amps, but I think that's a good one. Thanks.



Haha and get this on your amp.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 13, 2019)

A bit off topic, but I've been more into real CD's lately, but trying to get the most 'genuine' original analogue version of a CD has been fraught with obstacles. Take for example "The Heat is on" album by the Isley Brothers I bought used on Discogs. I made sure to specifically get the version that says 1975 when it was recorded and does NOT say "remastered" in any way and even made sure the disc version matches the CD insert, however upon giving a careful listen on my highly resolving setup, it sounds somewhat 'digital' to me and with occasional modest clipping which is often a tell-tale sign of a modern-day digital remaster. I for one avoid remastered albums like the PLAGUE because to me, 99% of these sound much worse than the original. After all, putting an original recording through so much extra equipment inevitably adds to the signal path which is (almost) always destructive unless done very carefully with an ultra hi-spec analogue soundboard and mastering equipment, not to mention deeply experienced sound engineer.

Any advice on how to find the most authentic analogue CD's? (preferably vintage from the 70's and 80's). Usually the best CDs are digitized directly from the original reel-to-reel tape, but that would also be interesting to hear a direct analogue to CD recording too without having been on tape and without digital processing aside from the final conversion to CD.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I will let you know if I make it out thataways  have thought a nice vacation would be to Australia and a jaunt through Tasmania, but I cannot say when that will be, there are too many places in the world to go.
> 
> Yes, I am sure I will pick the brain of the great rectifier guru @gibosi , right now I am building my knowledge so I can ask him the right questions.
> 
> ...



Looks like a nice setup with the 4 volt rectifier in the middle


----------



## Monsterzero (Oct 13, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> A bit off topic, but I've been more into real CD's lately, but trying to get the most 'genuine' original analogue version of a CD has been fraught with obstacles. Take for example "The Heat is on" album by the Isley Brothers I bought used on Discogs. I made sure to specifically get the version that says 1975 when it was recorded and does NOT say "remastered" in any way and even made sure the disc version matches the CD insert, however upon giving a careful listen on my highly resolving setup, it sounds somewhat 'digital' to me and with occasional modest clipping which is often a tell-tale sign of a modern-day digital remaster. I for one avoid remastered albums like the PLAGUE because to me, 99% of these sound much worse than the original. After all, putting an original recording through so much extra equipment inevitably adds to the signal path which is (almost) always destructive unless done very carefully with an ultra hi-spec analogue soundboard and mastering equipment, not to mention deeply experienced sound engineer.
> 
> Any advice on how to find the most authentic analogue CD's? (preferably vintage from the 70's and 80's). Usually the best CDs are digitized directly from the original reel-to-reel tape, but that would also be interesting to hear a direct analogue to CD recording too without having been on tape and without digital processing aside from the final conversion to CD.



For all vinyl and CD individual pressing SQ I always use.
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/forums/music-corner.2/

Use the search function. Chances are its been asked before.

Many members are industry insiders,including of course the host.
I thought I knew a lot about music,but that site's vast wealth of information is quite humbling. That being said although they do dabble in most genres over there,the primary focus is rock.

EDIT: Remasters can be awful with brickwalling,but not all.
New Abbey Road,Bob Dylan MFSL remasters,Woodstock 2019 remix and Outlaws remaster done by the host are simply breath taking.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Looks like a nice setup with the 4 volt rectifier in the middle



Thanks, I think the rectifier will balance things out when there are no tubes in the B5 sockets, should look very nice.


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> A bit off topic, but I've been more into real CD's lately, but trying to get the most 'genuine' original analogue version of a CD has been fraught with obstacles. Take for example "The Heat is on" album by the Isley Brothers I bought used on Discogs. I made sure to specifically get the version that says 1975 when it was recorded and does NOT say "remastered" in any way and even made sure the disc version matches the CD insert, however upon giving a careful listen on my highly resolving setup, it sounds somewhat 'digital' to me and with occasional modest clipping which is often a tell-tale sign of a modern-day digital remaster. I for one avoid remastered albums like the PLAGUE because to me, 99% of these sound much worse than the original. After all, putting an original recording through so much extra equipment inevitably adds to the signal path which is (almost) always destructive unless done very carefully with an ultra hi-spec analogue soundboard and mastering equipment, not to mention deeply experienced sound engineer.
> 
> Any advice on how to find the most authentic analogue CD's? (preferably vintage from the 70's and 80's). Usually the best CDs are digitized directly from the original reel-to-reel tape, but that would also be interesting to hear a direct analogue to CD recording too without having been on tape and without digital processing aside from the final conversion to CD.



I have many LP’s which sound much better than the originally issued CD.  

And I have a few CD’s that sound much better than the original vinyl’s.  

All depends on how much money was spent to render the master to produce the retail media.  

No CD is analog (as you well know).  My suggestion would be to obtain a mid-fi turntable and a clean copy of the original LP and see it it has the clean sound quality you seek.  If not, then a carefully remastered CD could possibly sound the beat.  

When I say it depends on how much money was spent to produce the media master...how much gets spent depended on how many copies they thought the project would sell.  I do not know what that expectation was for your Isley Brothers’ title.  But I can say most if the LP albums that were rushed to CD starting in 1982....did not have not a very high quality of sound (and remember, 1982 DAC’s were a sad affair, too).  

Sound Quality was never the reason the industry went from LP to CD - the reason was a CD was much cheaper to produce.   The vinyl pressing industry took big profit hits in the 1970’s due to rising oil prices (there is a lot of oil used to make the vinyl blanks).  

Listen to the best pressed LP (Discogs helps there) is the next step.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Looks like a nice setup with the 4 volt rectifier in the middle



Glenn, I think I recall you writing at some point that with Lundahl transformers - the sound is better with HEXFRED as opposed to rectifier tube.
Am I remembering wrong?
That was part of the reason I waned no rectifier tube for my 6EL3N... (plus I am not sure you'll have enough room on top for another tube socket...)


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 13, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Glenn, I think I recall you writing at some point that with Lundahl transformers - the sound is better with HEXFRED as opposed to rectifier tube.
> Am I remembering wrong?
> That was part of the reason I waned no rectifier tube for my 6EL3N... (plus I am not sure you'll have enough room on top for another tube socket...)



I have that statement bookmarked:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1766#post-14964495


----------



## Sound Trooper

Yesterday I spent another 3 hours listening with the EL34 tubes and boy was I smitten. As of now the EL34 tubes have a permanent parking spot in the GEL3N amp and this has also lead me to look around for better (double o getters) EL34 tubes. 

I've been thinking, would it be possible to have an amp running on quad EL34 tubes with a 2/4 tube switch for headphones and speakers?


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> I've been thinking, would it be possible to have an amp running on quad EL34 tubes with a 2/4 tube switch for headphones and speakers?



Ask Glenn and it shall be done. 

Zachie has that same for EL3N tubes exactly. 2 or 4 EL3N. So I can’t see why not for EL34.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Glenn, I think I recall you writing at some point that with Lundahl transformers - the sound is better with HEXFRED as opposed to rectifier tube.
> Am I remembering wrong?
> That was part of the reason I waned no rectifier tube for my 6EL3N... (plus I am not sure you'll have enough room on top for another tube socket...)



Don’t see why you can’t have tube rectifiers for your 6EL3N. Just get a large chassis.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hope Sunday evening is rolling smooth for everyone.

 Listening to:




@whirlwind might dig this...guitarist extraordinaire...

Cheers all..


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> Ask Glenn and it shall be done.
> 
> Zachie has that same for EL3N tubes exactly. 2 or 4 EL3N. So I can’t see why not for EL34.



This is starting to get serious.. quad EL34 tubes, EL3N drivers, tube rectifier, separate chassis for power, custom painted. Ooooh... things are getting hot here.


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> Hope Sunday evening is rolling smooth for everyone.
> 
> Listening to:
> 
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Glenn, I think I recall you writing at some point that with Lundahl transformers - the sound is better with HEXFRED as opposed to rectifier tube.
> Am I remembering wrong?
> That was part of the reason I waned no rectifier tube for my 6EL3N... (plus I am not sure you'll have enough room on top for another tube socket...)



Most of the Lundahl transformers were made for SS rectifiers. Even though I use a tube for some of the OTLs.
The transformer in the OTL was made for SS but seem to work fine with a tube.
The Lundahl transformer in the EL3N amp is made for a tube rectifier. Has 5 volt wingdings and the high voltage secondary is center tapped.

Why do you ask do you want a tube rectifier in your amp????


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> This is starting to get serious.. quad EL34 tubes, EL3N drivers, tube rectifier, separate chassis for power, custom painted. Ooooh... things are getting hot here.



You raise the bar with your request for a separate chassis for power supply. That would be a first here.


----------



## Sound Trooper

UntilThen said:


> You raise the bar with your request for a separate chassis for power supply. That would be a first here.



I'm all ready for this.. just waiting for @2359glenn to let me know the details.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 13, 2019)

Now then folks, I finally got around to comparing the sonic difference of my upgraded power cord vs. stock, and my top Furman power conditioner vs. direct to mains power.

Already I was using the Furman IT Reference 15i Discrete Symmetrical Power Filter, 15 Amp:
 



Using stock cables, I was able to hear a highly substantial difference in sound - overall more lifelike and resolving and smooth. Thinking I may not be getting the full benefit of this top power conditioner, I recently went for the *WireWorld Aurora 7* power cord (thanks to recent suggestions here). It's their 5th of 8 cords ranging from $60 - $1,700 for 1 meter. I got  this one new in 1.5 meters for $170.








Instantly when plugging in the Aurora 7 cable I knew something special was happening! I was transported into a world of marvelous fidelity where every aspect just knew no boundaries and just does not stop - full stop! The sound I was getting now _(on HD-600 with silver cable and custom Euforia tube amp fed by Schiit Modi 2 Multibit coaxed along nicely with a series of two very nice USB components / reclockers)_ was HIGHLY organic / lifelike with that x-factor of realism and visceral impact, very much deeper into the scene, FR seemingly wider with treble equally as full but more smooth, bass went deeper and more thunderous, vs. more 'digital' and narrow soundstage with a freebie black power cord.

After enjoying this new cord for 7 days I just went back to 'dinosaur land', comparing it to a standard user's freebie black power cord directly into a generic power strip. I noted the sound now as a very congested soundstage and a 'gluey' instrument separation; everything sounded cohesive and good, but layering was somewhat glued together in a sort of 'blob'; very harsh treble on semi-bright recordings that did not sound that way with the upgraded power cord and conditioner - an overall artificial sound. Drums do still hit as hard, but are totally lacking the organic and and 'natural' feel. Bass was not as deep, and everything sounded by contrast as if it was lacking harmonics that I previously heard with the above two upgrades.

Next I tried the upgraded Aurora 7 power cord alone directly with a generic power strip. Compared to a generic black power cord I actually heard an improvement! Now I'm hearing a more resolving overall sound - smoother, wider frequency response with treble exactly as present but smoother and deeper bass too... but finally after going back to the Furman power conditioner with Aurora 7 cable I notice "TREMENDOUS, FAR REACHING improvements in every aspect" (sic) as underlined above; as if I were listening to a completely new rig!!!

While the above was done on my Euforia amp with externally heated powers, Glenn amp owners have also reported positive noticeable improvements with similar upgrades on their amps as well. Mind you, this much improvement was without even upgrading the power cord to the external transformer so the difference could have been even greater if I had upgraded all cables!




Above are three power cables:
1. generic black power cord
2. generic black power cord (extra thick copper)
3. Wireworld Aurora 7 silver-clad OFC 12 AWG copper cable with a flat design.

I was already using the 'thicker' black cable, but the tremendous improvements came when upgrading to this blue cable, and were noticeable both with / without a power conditioner, but heightened immensely with both together.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Don’t see why you can’t have tube rectifiers for your 6EL3N. Just get a large chassis.


I like the smaller chassis. Not looking for anything bigger 



2359glenn said:


> Most of the Lundahl transformers were made for SS rectifiers. Even though I use a tube for some of the OTLs.
> The transformer in the OTL was made for SS but seem to work fine with a tube.
> The Lundahl transformer in the EL3N amp is made for a tube rectifier. Has 5 volt wingdings and the high voltage secondary is center tapped.
> 
> *Why do you ask do you want a tube rectifier in your amp????*



Glenn - I would only *consider* rectifier tube for the 6EL3N if YOU say you think that would sound much better. 
Otherwise, I prefer internal SS rectification. 6 tubes (along with the 3 large Lundahl transformers) is already plenty crowded, and I am not interested in ANY tube rolling (got the GOTL for that...)


----------



## TonyNewman

Just got my new Elrogs - quite a light show






I am using an audio fan unit to remove some of the heat generated from the input transformer. It keeps the amp temperature warm to the touch, but not super hot (that it was before). This fan unit is quiet on low power and sits easily on top of the transformer housings. I listen about 6ft from the amp using mostly open headphones (ZMF Verite at the moment) and the fan hum is not noticeable.






Close up of the Elrog


----------



## 2359glenn

Looks good
When I had Elrogs the driver in my amps are globe #10 also thorated tungsten a great light show.
But the filament in one of the Elrogs burned out.  I don't know about new tubes.
The #10s have been in the amps for over 10 years and never had a problem and they are 80 years old.


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> Just got my new Elrogs - quite a light show


 
Always love the Glenn 300b amp but never had a chance to listen to it. The heat from the 300b tubes makes it a winter's amp. EL12 spez will be cool.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> I'm just going for two EL34/KT66 in my amp. Also two 6J5 and a rectifier. This will be quite a "sane" amp - especially compared to the OTL amp I'm currently having built...



I am pretty much piggy backing off your idea.  I am going to add the 6SN7 socket to the mix also as I want to be able to use all of my Mullard driver tubes that I got from Stavros, along with 
some of my other favorites.






leftside said:


> Wow - the price is high on those. They're not even the earlier/more desirable black base with inverted cup getter... Langrex has them for cheaper and with better test results.


I have been close to pulling the trigger on those Grey glass tubes from Langrex...trying to be patient ....Langrex has a bunch of these.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Glenn - I would only *consider* rectifier tube for the 6EL3N if YOU say you think that would sound much better.
> Otherwise, I prefer internal SS rectification. 6 tubes (along with the 3 large Lundahl transformers) is already plenty crowded, and I am not interested in ANY tube rolling (got the GOTL for that...)



My Glenn Super 9 OTL amp could be the first with ss rectifier - hexfred. I have love it with just hexfred for close to 1.5 years and have never regretted not going with tube rectifiers...... but that all changed with the purchase of GEC U52, Cossor 53ku and Mullard GZ34. I bought these rectifiers for Berlin but when Studio Six and later WA22 arrived, I use it in those amps. That's when I was sooooo impressed with what these tube rectifiers can do to change the tone of the over all amp. It's just more organic, natural and classic tube tone of euphony and charm. From a hexfred lover to these tube rectifier lovers, it's been a turnaround for me. 

At no time did I feel the GEC U52 is sluggish and without the good rhythm, dynamics and 3D soundstage. In fact it encompass all of these good qualities and I was quite shock by the discovery. If I didn't try it for myself, no one could have convince me to go with tube rectifiers. That's all I have to say. 

If I were to get GOTL again, it would be with a tube rectifier.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Always love the Glenn 300b amp but never had a chance to listen to it. The heat from the 300b tubes makes it a winter's amp. EL12 spez will be cool.



Not that cool running at 425 volts!!!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I am pretty much piggy backing off your idea. I am going to add the 6SN7 socket to the mix also as I want to be able to use all of my Mullard driver tubes that I got from Stavros, along with
> some of my other favorites.



Joe that's a brilliant idea. I was going to suggest to DL to have a single 6sn7 as driver as well as dual L63 / 6J5. One extra socket in front and middle for the 6sn7 will still look good. Even tempted to have a single 6sn7 added to Berlin but I want to preserve the look of EL11 / EL12 spez with a single tube rectifier.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Not that cool running at 425 volts!!!



Dang... choices. Will it still sound good running with less?


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 14, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Always love the Glenn 300b amp but never had a chance to listen to it. The heat from the 300b tubes makes it a winter's amp. EL12 spez will be cool.




The EL3N amp runs real cool...but not being pushed hard
250 volts


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> The EL3N amp runs real cool...but not being pushed hard
> 250 volts



I know .... it's either a BBQ amp or Icy cold beer amp haha.

Well I'm not even going to decide on this. It's Glenn's decision. If he thinks running it at 425 volts is the way to go with Berlin then so be it. I'll just put a shrimp on the Barbie Que.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> This is starting to get serious.. quad EL34 tubes, EL3N drivers, tube rectifier, separate chassis for power, custom painted. Ooooh... things are getting hot here.



I remember talking to you about this idea...sounds good.
Probably the best chance of getting the blackest back round.
It definitely would add to the cost....but if you can afford the option and have the space....why not.

GS-X mk2 is made this way.


----------



## whirlwind

I have been using this as a reference when looking for GEC KT66 tubes.
I am not sure it is fully correct however, but I believe it to be.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 14, 2019)

TonyNewman said:


> Just got my new Elrogs - quite a light show
> 
> I am using an audio fan unit to remove some of the heat generated from the input transformer. It keeps the amp temperature warm to the touch, but not super hot (that it was before). This fan unit is quiet on low power and sits easily on top of the transformer housings. I listen about 6ft from the amp using mostly open headphones (ZMF Verite at the moment) and the fan hum is not noticeable.
> 
> ...



Looks great,Tony!
Luck with the Elrogs, sir!


----------



## JazzVinyl

JazzVinyl said:


> In my amp...use of a 6N7 (high mu) and 6x 6BX or BL7's (high mu powers) - results in hum that is readily apparent.  The hum goes away completely, with use of the (low mu) 6AS7G or 6H13C's as powers.





Monsterzero said:


> Same.
> Has kinda soured me on 6bx7s.



I fixed my "high mu driver/powers hum problems", by externally heating the SN7 socket with highly regulated DC current.

Can finally run my FDD20, Visseaux, Ken Rad and NU 6N7's (or any other high mu driver) with high mu powers 
(6x 6BX7's mu of 10  */* 6BL7's mu of 15),  without the annoying hum.

Cheers, all!


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> My Glenn Super 9 OTL amp could be the first with ss rectifier - hexfred. I have love it with just hexfred for close to 1.5 years and have never regretted not going with tube rectifiers...... but that all changed with the purchase of GEC U52, Cossor 53ku and Mullard GZ34. I bought these rectifiers for Berlin but when Studio Six and later WA22 arrived, I use it in those amps. That's when I was sooooo impressed with what these tube rectifiers can do to change the tone of the over all amp. It's just more organic, natural and classic tube tone of euphony and charm. From a hexfred lover to these tube rectifier lovers, it's been a turnaround for me.
> 
> At no time did I feel the GEC U52 is sluggish and without the good rhythm, dynamics and 3D soundstage. In fact it encompass all of these good qualities and I was quite shock by the discovery. If I didn't try it for myself, no one could have convince me to go with tube rectifiers. That's all I have to say.
> 
> If I were to get GOTL again, it would be with a tube rectifier.



My GOTL has a rectifier socket, and I have been using it lately with HEXFRED plugged-in. Trying to limit the tube rolling craze a bit... 
I want the 6EL3N to be a great sounding amp, without ANY tube rolling! Rectifiers included 
If @2359glenn tells me that I am missing out by not having a rectifier - I will ask him to add it. Otherwise - internal HEXFRED it is.


----------



## leftside (Oct 14, 2019)

How about prior to 1945?  I think this is from 1943, (see the '43'), but I have no idea what the other 3 represents:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/KT66-AUDIO-VALVE-AMPLIFIER-BRITISH-MADE-TESTED-/183928749150

Langrex also had a matching early first version KT66, and the first two digits appear to be '40':
https://www.ebay.com/itm/KT66-VINTAGE-OSRAM-GREY-GLASS-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-LC62-/264296578824


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> I fixed my "high mu driver/powers hum problems", by externally heating the SN7 socket with highly regulated DC current.
> 
> Can finally run my FDD20, Visseaux, Ken Rad and NU 6N7's (or any other high mu driver) with high mu powers
> (6x 6BX7's mu of 10  */* 6BL7's mu of 15),  without the annoying hum.
> ...


 The VC has brought back to using 6bx7s. Yes I still get hum,but I can usually rid myself of it by either re-seating the tubes,or cleaning them.
None of my other power tubes,including the GEC6as7g,TS5998,or Bendix 6080 can do what the 6bx7s can do with the Verite closed.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> The VC has brought back to using 6bx7s. Yes I still get hum,but I can usually rid myself of it by either re-seating the tubes,or cleaning them.
> None of my other power tubes,including the GEC6as7g,TS5998,or Bendix 6080 can do what the 6bx7s can do with the Verite closed.



Hello MZ...

I agree man, the 6 pack of 6BX7 or 6BL7 (my personal favorites) really make the GOTL sing!

Since the BL's are mu 15, the hum problem with a high gain driver like the 6N7 was even worse.   The filtered DC heater current fix, makes this tube combo usable with no hum.

Might change my power heaters to also run on DC  

Cheers!


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> I fixed my "high mu driver/powers hum problems", by externally heating the SN7 socket with highly regulated DC current.
> 
> Can finally run my FDD20, Visseaux, Ken Rad and NU 6N7's (or any other high mu driver) with high mu powers
> (6x 6BX7's mu of 10  */* 6BL7's mu of 15),  without the annoying hum.
> ...


Pics?


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> None of my other power tubes,including the GEC6as7g,TS5998,or Bendix 6080 can do what the 6bx7s can do with the Verite closed.



In my limited experience so far, I would agree with you for the Aeolus.  But, so far I think it depends on what I am listening to.  The last few nights I have listened to music that is either acoustic blues (or not heavily electrified at least) or more relaxed jazz trio/quartet type of music.  This has been using 2x 5998s, and I haven't felt like I wanted to switch the power tubes.  I'll have to now do the experiment and switch back in the 6x 6BX7s with the same recordings.  Maybe it's the case that some music benefits more than others from the power and authority of the 6x 6BX7s?  I could be totally off base as I have way more work to do to figure this out.  Friday evening was the Allman Brothers Fillmore West '71, and that would likely have seen benefit from the 6BX7s.  Last night was Sonny Landreth Live in Lafayette (acoustic slide blues on the first 8 songs), and that was fun with the airier sounds of the 5998s.

I suppose that YMMV applies here.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> ....The heat from the 300b tubes makes it a winter's amp.....



True words. It's not as bad as the 845 power amp I used to have - that thing was insane, but it is noticeable on a warm day. It is early spring here in New Zealand and still cool(ish). Doubt I will run the Glenn amp at all over the summer - just too hot.

The fan unit on top of the amp helps a lot to remove the heat from the amp itself - but the room still gets quite a few degrees boost.


----------



## leftside

Keep us up to date on how you like the Elrogs Tony. They look really nice.


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> True words. It's not as bad as the 845 power amp I used to have - that thing was insane, but it is noticeable on a warm day. It is early spring here in New Zealand and still cool(ish). Doubt I will run the Glenn amp at all over the summer - just too hot.
> 
> The fan unit on top of the amp helps a lot to remove the heat from the amp itself - but the room still gets quite a few degrees boost.



It's early spring in Canberra now too. Temperature generally cool but can fluctuate from 14 to 27 in a few days. It's madness. However on the whole it's beautiful Spring weather at ~ below 20 degree centigrade. The hottest amp I've is the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP and Ragnarok. So why did you get rid of the 845 amp? Must be a brute of an amp.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 14, 2019)

Zachik said:


> My GOTL has a rectifier socket, and I have been using it lately with HEXFRED plugged-in. Trying to limit the tube rolling craze a bit...
> I want the 6EL3N to be a great sounding amp, without ANY tube rolling! Rectifiers included
> If @2359glenn tells me that I am missing out by not having a rectifier - I will ask him to add it. Otherwise - internal HEXFRED it is.



The first question Glenn ask me when I told him to make me a GOTL is, 'Do you want it with hexfred or tube rectifier?' Never been ask that question before when buying other tube amps. There just wasn't a choice with the other amps. It's take it or leave it. 

I was bewildered at that time, not knowing what a hexfred is, even less idea on tube rectifiers. Never used them up until that point. @Xcalibur255 and @TonyNewman posts kind of sway me towards hexfred and of all person, @gibosi decided it for me but of course I gave him the wrong info. I told Gibosi that up to that point of my audio journey, I had enough with tube rolling from the days of Elise, Euforia and La Figaro. So Gibosi told me that I shouldn't go with tube rectifiers if that was the case.

So when I received GOTL, the notion that I wasn't going to tube roll, flew out of the window and I was back into tube rolling like a bear takes to the wood.  I've settle down now though. My GOTL is currently running a cheap Hitachi 6sn7gtb with 6 x GE 6bx7gt for more than a week and unlikely to change for a while.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> In my limited experience so far, I would agree with you for the Aeolus.  But, so far I think it depends on what I am listening to.  The last few nights I have listened to music that is either acoustic blues (or not heavily electrified at least) or more relaxed jazz trio/quartet type of music.  This has been using 2x 5998s, and I haven't felt like I wanted to switch the power tubes.  I'll have to now do the experiment and switch back in the 6x 6BX7s with the same recordings.  Maybe it's the case that some music benefits more than others from the power and authority of the 6x 6BX7s?  I could be totally off base as I have way more work to do to figure this out.  Friday evening was the Allman Brothers Fillmore West '71, and that would likely have seen benefit from the 6BX7s.  Last night was Sonny Landreth Live in Lafayette (acoustic slide blues on the first 8 songs), and that was fun with the airier sounds of the 5998s.
> 
> I suppose that YMMV applies here.



I definitely will change the tube set for the perfect match for an evening of whatever I have selected to enjoy.

As Glenn says:  "Whatever sounds best to you"  

The 5998 is a quality power tube, for sure.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> How about prior to 1945?  I think this is from 1943, (see the '43'), but I have no idea what the other 3 represents:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/KT66-AUDIO-VALVE-AMPLIFIER-BRITISH-MADE-TESTED-/183928749150
> 
> Langrex also had a matching early first version KT66, and the first two digits appear to be '40':
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/KT66-VINTAGE-OSRAM-GREY-GLASS-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-LC62-/264296578824




I was not aware of anything earlier than what the chart showed.....thanks for the heads up.
I can't say that I can see the '43' though....help me out


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> Keep us up to date on how you like the Elrogs Tony. They look really nice.



They sound rather good right out of the box. Need 300 hours on them to be sure, but so far so good.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> It's early spring in Canberra now too. Temperature generally cool but can fluctuate from 14 to 27 in a few days. It's madness. However on the whole it's beautiful Spring weather at ~ below 20 degree centigrade. The hottest amp I've is the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP and Ragnarok. So why did you get rid of the 845 amp? Must be a brute of an amp.



The 845 power amp was 42 kg of audio goodness - just so impractical so I had to get rid of it. Crazy amount of heat from the 845s.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> I was not aware of anything earlier than what the chart showed.....thanks for the heads up.
> I can't say that I can see the '43' though....help me out


Here you go. '43' on the left. '3' on the right.




 


And also a pic of the same tube next to the 'regular' shape KT66.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> The first question Glenn ask me when I told him to make me a GOTL is, 'Do you want it with hexfred or tube rectifier?' Never been ask that question before when buying other tube amps. There just wasn't a choice with the other amps. It's take it or leave it.
> 
> I was bewildered at that time, not knowing what a hexfred is, even less idea on tube rectifiers. Never used them up until that point. @Xcalibur255 and @TonyNewman posts kind of sway me towards hexfred and of all person, @gibosi decided it for me but of course I gave him the wrong info. I told Gibosi that up to that point of my audio journey, I had enough with tube rolling from the days of Elise, Euforia and La Figaro. So Gibosi told me that I shouldn't go with tube rectifiers if that was the case.
> 
> So when I received GOTL, the notion that I wasn't going to tube roll, flew out of the window and I was back into tube rolling like a bear takes to the wood.  I've settle down now though. My GOTL is currently running a cheap Hitachi 6sn7gtb with 6 x GE 6bx7gt for more than a week and unlikely to change for a while.



I would urge caution here. If you are not sure of what you want, tube rectification might be the safer bet. I converted to SS rectification for a few reasons:
1) Had a bad failure of a PY500 that tripped out my home power supply. That was very unpleasant.
2) My audio preference is more on the detail/technical side than "super tubiness".

So SS rectification addressed my needs very nicely. Also, the 300B in SET mode is quite "tubey" - so I get enough tube sonic goodness from the 300B. The C3g drivers are ultra transparent - so not much happening there. My amp gets its tube character from the 300B alone (as best I can tell). So be careful about which way you want to go. If a rich "tubey" sound is something you desire, than going SS rectification puts the tube sound workload on the abilities of the driver and output tubes. That might not be enough for you. YMMV.


----------



## leftside

Perhaps produced at the Shaw "shadow factory":
http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/Factory - UK - Shaw.htm

" Modern bulb shape started immediately after WWII, by late 1945 (more "ST" shaped before that)."
https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?189308-GEC-Date-Code

I'm not sure I'll actually use these wartime KT66's. They are more like historical artifacts to me. I'd be pretty upset if one blew. The later black base/smoked glass are meant to be just as good, and with apparently better quality controls.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Here you go. '43' on the left. '3' on the right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







leftside said:


> Perhaps produced at the Shaw "shadow factory":
> http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/Factory - UK - Shaw.htm
> 
> " Modern bulb shape started immediately after WWII, by late 1945 (more "ST" shaped before that)."
> ...




Yes, and that is what I have been looking for.


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 14, 2019)

The pair of Visseaux 6N7Gs came in and goodness.

This is a really powerful sounding tube. It takes a bit of tube rolling to really get this powerful, full sound out of the Teton without it losing itself to being too warm and rolled off highs. It’s mid-forward and the bass and body surprised me. The only tube that has come close on the Teton to this sound is the Sylvania 6SN7W.

Damn nice tube. Now to try it on the HD800 and see if it puts meat on them bones.

Thank you guys for the recommendation.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> The pair of Visseaux 6N7Gs came in and goodness.
> 
> This is a really powerful sounding tube. It takes a bit of tube rolling to really get this powerful, full sound out of the Teton without it losing itself to being too warm and rolled off highs. It’s mid-forward and the bass and body surprised me. The only tube that has come close on the Teton to this sound is the Sylvania 6SN7W.
> 
> ...



Right on brother!  I have the GT and ST versions.   My ST from the early 40's.  Has less bass than the GT version.  Mordy said try the "NU 6N7".  Found an NOS one in GT and I like even better than the Visseaux (which I never thought I would say).

The Ken Rad metal 6N7 is also very good tube, a famous bass monster!  
And yes the 6N7 has a lot of gain compared to an SN7.  I get hum in the GOTL with high mu powers like 6BX/BL7, but this morning..solved that by externally heating the SN7 socket with highly filtered 6.3v of DC.  Now I can 6N7 with the 6BX/BL7 powers w/o hum problems.

Also find here that the EL32's adapted to te C3g sockets mellow out that 6N7 mids and makes them more textured and wider.  You can "hear around instruments" in the soundfield when the EL32's are in.

Glad you tried it!  

Cheers!


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> Right on brother!  I have the GT and ST versions.   My ST from the early 40's.  Has less bass than the GT version.  Mordy said try the "NU 6N7".  Found an NOS one in GT and I like even better than the Visseaux (which I never thought I would say).
> 
> The Ken Rad metal 6N7 is also very good tube, a famous bass monster!
> And yes the 6N7 has a lot of gain compared to an SN7.  I get hum in the GOTL with high mu powers like 6BX/BL7, but this morning..solved that by externally heating the SN7 socket with highly filtered 6.3v of DC.  Now I can 6N7 with the 6BX/BL7 powers w/o hum problems.
> ...



Because I'm following JV's lead, there is a Ken Rad metal 6N7 incoming, adapters for 6N7s as well as EL32's to C3g in the works, EL32's are here, and we'll see about what powers to run with this.  Fun times!!!


----------



## Monsterzero

GDuss said:


> Because I'm following JV's lead, there is a Ken Rad metal 6N7 incoming, adapters for 6N7s as well as EL32's to C3g in the works, EL32's are here, and we'll see about what powers to run with this.  Fun times!!!


 I received those 3 lead filled Ken Rad 6J5s the other day,but the adapter is aways away yet. Looking forward to hear how they compare to the Ken Rad 6SN7/VT231.

@2359glenn can you let me know how much you want for that rectifier+adapter?


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> I received those 3 lead filled Ken Rad 6J5s the other day,but the adapter is aways away yet. Looking forward to hear how they compare to the Ken Rad 6SN7/VT231.



I'm curious to hear what that lead does to your VCs.  Sounds like it's going to be serious.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I received those 3 lead filled Ken Rad 6J5s the other day,but the adapter is aways away yet. Looking forward to hear how they compare to the Ken Rad 6SN7/VT231.
> 
> @2359glenn can you let me know how much you want for that rectifier+adapter?



RK60/1641 tube  $35 adapter $35 so $70 for both tube and adapter.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> RK60/1641 tube  $35 adapter $35 so $70 for both tube and adapter.


 Thanks I will send it tomorrow.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks I will send it tomorrow.


That's a rare tube now. Let me know if you like it or not.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> That's a rare tube now. Let me know if you like it or not.


 I will,but its for my DAC,not my GOTL.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/lampizator-golden-atlantic-trp.27809/page-23#post-600572

I also have the Brimar rectifier in bound mentioned in the above post as well.


----------



## attmci (Oct 14, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I will,but its for my DAC,not my GOTL.
> 
> https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/lampizator-golden-atlantic-trp.27809/page-23#post-600572
> 
> I also have the Brimar rectifier in bound mentioned in the above post as well.



I see. I have the same tube. A very nice tube for the price.

But with the adapter, it will occupy a lot of space.

What the review said is true. The 422a stands out with transparency and huge sound stage.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> I see. I have the same tube. A very nice tube for the price.
> 
> But with the adapter, it will occupy a lot of space.


Yes. Glenn and I anticipated that issue. Glenn had me take photos of the rectifier slot on my dac so he could best design the adapter to fit into the TRP


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Yes. Glenn and I anticipated that issue. Glenn had me take photos of the rectifier slot on my dac so he could best design the adapter to fit into the TRP



If you have to, you can use a tube socket protector to raise the base.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Been a great day for tunes...

The magical NU 6N7 CGRP (clear glass round plates) took center stage.   
His buds, the EL32’s assisted the honors and the Terracotta Army of 6BL7’s marched, behind.


----------



## thecrow (Oct 14, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I appreciate the truth lol. I don't stand in defence of Verite blindly. It does what it need to do for me but I've learn that there are many TOTL headphones that I like. We're spoilt for choice. Someday I'll wander into downtown Sydney MiniDisc store and audition the HE1000SE. I hope I don't have to spend another $5600 on that egg shape headphone which I think look really nice.
> 
> Thanks for the detail response and I won't throw the Code Red at you.


You can also buy a cheap 2nd hand hekv2 and then pay $1k usd to upgrade to the hekse.
Will probably end up about $3600 aud.....maybe let’s say under $4k


----------



## thecrow

UsoppNoKami said:


> Norne Einvaldi Reference & Silvergarde S3 by @TigzStudio


Can i ask how you find the s3 and einvaldi (and relative to each other) with the hekse?

i have the silver draug and it’s running a fine line with the hekse re “brightness”


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi I took the advice here to contact ESRC on the 6J5 tubes. I emailed their @aol email 3 days ago but no response. Is there a better contact method for them?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> RK60/1641 tube  $35 adapter $35 so $70 for both tube and adapter.



That's cheap. A new RK60 is US$71.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/223645645612


----------



## UntilThen

thecrow said:


> You can also buy a cheap 2nd hand hekv2 and then pay $1k usd to upgrade to the hekse.
> Will probably end up about $3600 aud.....maybe let’s say under $4k



It's not a route that I want to take. Spend 4k and yet it's 2nd hand. Besides I don't know if I will like the HE1000se. The next headphone will come next year after Berlin arrival. Will get a headphone specially to pair with Berlin. That's how much faith I have in Glenn creating that amp.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 15, 2019)

TonyNewman said:


> I would urge caution here. If you are not sure of what you want, tube rectification might be the safer bet. I converted to SS rectification for a few reasons:
> 1) Had a bad failure of a PY500 that tripped out my home power supply. That was very unpleasant.
> 2) My audio preference is more on the detail/technical side than "super tubiness".
> 
> So SS rectification addressed my needs very nicely. Also, the 300B in SET mode is quite "tubey" - so I get enough tube sonic goodness from the 300B. The C3g drivers are ultra transparent - so not much happening there. My amp gets its tube character from the 300B alone (as best I can tell). So be careful about which way you want to go. If a rich "tubey" sound is something you desire, than going SS rectification puts the tube sound workload on the abilities of the driver and output tubes. That might not be enough for you. YMMV.



It's debatable topic. SS or tube rectification. Both are very safe in my experience (not opinion) if implemented right. GOTL with hexfred is as safe as any specially created tube amp with tube rectification. Likewise Studio Six and WA22 with tube rectification is as safe as GOTL with hexfred. 

My preference is also on details and clarity. Hence my selection of Yggdrasil and HD800. But as I said earlier, tube rectification in Studio Six and WA22 surprised me. They are far from super tubiness. In fact I was very surprised at the details, clarity and fast transient of these 2 SET amps. As Thomas Martin (designer of ALO Audio Studio Six) said, it's in the implementation. Likewise those with tube rectification on the GOTL have been heaping praise on it.

So once again, it's a personal choice. I love GOTL with hexfred as it is. Nothing lacking there with the driver and power tubes that I roll. Likewise if I were to get a GOTL with tube rectification, I believe I will love it just as much as I have love the Studio Six and Woo Audio WA22.


----------



## thecrow

UntilThen said:


> It's not a route that I want to take. Spend 4k and yet it's 2nd hand. Besides I don't know if I will like the HE1000se. The next headphone will come next year after Berlin arrival. Will get a headphone specially to pair with Berlin. That's how much faith I have in Glenn creating that amp.


The upgrading to the hekse is done through hifiman so the upgrade will be new
I bought my hekv2 when a2a here in Sydney had them cheap(ish) and later on I upgraded to the hekse dor $1k usd plus shipping

either way it’s not cheap


----------



## whirlwind

DecentLevi said:


> Hi I took the advice here to contact ESRC on the 6J5 tubes. I emailed their @aol email 3 days ago but no response. Is there a better contact method for them?



Maybe try giving them a call


----------



## UntilThen

thecrow said:


> The upgrading to the hekse is done through hifiman so the upgrade will be new
> I bought my hekv2 when a2a here in Sydney had them cheap(ish) and later on I upgraded to the hekse dor $1k usd plus shipping
> 
> either way it’s not cheap



I see.  It's true at this level, the headphones are special and not cheap. I must head to MiniDisc in Chatswood to audition some headphones again in the new year. The last time I was there, I specifically tried the Audeze LCD-4 driven by a Moon Audio amp. LCD-4 is simply classy in tone. I could love that headphone but again it's expensive. Makes my ZMF Verite looks economical in price.... not in tone though. Verite is an outstanding headphone to my ears. So clear, so natural, it's just musical. I hate myself for describing it as musical but there's no other better way to put it.


----------



## UntilThen

It's been a week since the Woo Audio WA22 came to join my stable of headphone tube amps. I must admit that I have a prejudice on Woo Audio amps in the past. Why? Because I heard from so many opinions that they are over priced and crap. Also there were so many reports from owners that their WA22 are noisy from hums and what nots. It's like a disease to be avoided. After one week with this 2nd hand WA22 bought at just AUD$1550, my perception of the WA22 changed completely. It's quiet with any of my tubes that I roll. Even the Bendix 6080wb that were noisy in GOTL, are super quiet in the WA22. Of course I run it with pretty good tubes - Cossor 53ku, Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp and Bendix 6080wb. I love the WA22 now. No question about it. It may be the cheapest of my 3 amps but it's on equal footing with the other 2 in terms of listening enjoyment or SQ if you like to call it that.

So do I have any preference on my 3 amps? The GOTL with hexfred is more tubey than the other 2 SET amps, the latter sounds more neutral, leaner and precise than the GOTL. So the SET amps with tube rectifications are more dynamic and faster in speed compared to the OTL amp. That's not surprising. That's how I expect to hear it. That does not mean I love the GOTL less. On the contrary, I love the GOTL for it's tube tone, which is clearly heard. I love the way it's more voluptuous in it's tone. I love the rawness and power in the GOTL tone. It's a perfect coupling with Verite. 

So at the end of a continuous one week of comparison of my 3 amps, I still can't pick a favourite. Neither could I rank them. I just love them all. That is quite incredible. It has not happen before that I could not pick a favourite amongst these 3 or rank them 1,2,3. So I am still alternating between the amps with Verite for my listening pleasure. It's a stalemate !


----------



## leftside

I really like the WA22, but trust me, the 300B is a noticeable improvement - especially with harder to drive headphones. I've thrown the very best tubes at the WA22 (i.e. WE422A with adapter, early Osram U52 black base/inverted cup getter _rectifiers_, early Mullard ECC32 with foil getters and GEC L63 black base/cup getters/smoked glass _drivers_, and WE421 and GEC 6AS7G _power _tubes) and it's still not as good as the 300B. 

Tony describes the 300B as a little "tubey". I don't want to get into a disagreement with him, as he's only just started posting on here again, and it's nice to have another 300B owner posting  but in my system and with my ears, I'd probably describe the 300B as the least "tubey" piece of gear in my system. (see my description a few pages back).


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> ...
> 
> Tony describes the 300B as a little "tubey". I don't want to get into a disagreement with him, as he's only just started posting on here again, and it's nice to have another 300B owner posting  but in my system and with my ears, I'd probably describe the 300B as the least "tubey" piece of gear in my system. (see my description a few pages back).



I describe the 300B *tube* as "tubey" - not the amp. Overall, my 300B *amp *is mildly tubey. Comparing it to my audio buddy's WA22 highlights this to me. When I compare it to my GS-X Mk2, the drop in the technicalities with the Glenn 300B amp is surprisingly small. Really, really small with the very best detailed 300Bs (such as the ER300B).

Sorry if I didn't explain myself very well originally. The point I was trying to make is that my 300B amp gets its tube character from the 300B tube itself - as it has SS rectification and the C3g driver is ultra transparent. This is a good thing for my tastes. YMMV.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I really like the WA22, but trust me, the 300B is a noticeable improvement - especially with harder to drive headphones. I've thrown the very best tubes at the WA22 (i.e. WE422A with adapter, early Osram U52 black base/inverted cup getter _rectifiers_, early Mullard ECC32 with foil getters and GEC L63 black base/cup getters/smoked glass _drivers_, and WE421 and GEC 6AS7G _power _tubes) and it's still not as good as the 300B.
> 
> Tony describes the 300B as a little "tubey". I don't want to get into a disagreement with him, as he's only just started posting on here again, and it's nice to have another 300B owner posting  but in my system and with my ears, I'd probably describe the 300B as the least "tubey" piece of gear in my system. (see my description a few pages back).



I trust you alright.  Except I don't have the 300b amp ... yet ..... to have a comparison. If the 300b is a noticeable improvement with harder to drive headphones, then it has to be special.

I get what Tony is saying and I get what you are saying too. It's good that both of you are describing it in comparison with other amps that I know. I can relate better to that then. Also everything needs to be taken in context. I get it when Tony says that the 300b tubes sounds tubey. That's what I heard in the WA5LE for 2 weeks running Takatsuki 300b, EML 5U4G mesh plate rectifiers and Brimar CV1988 drivers. It's the dominant 300b tube sound BUT I get it also when you say that the Glenn 300b amp sounds the opposite of that. That it's dynamic, fast, clear and top tapping. I very much believe that's because of the c3g drivers and Glenn' implementation of the 300b amp compared to the Woo Audio WA5LE.


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> I describe the 300B *tube* as "tubey" - not the amp. Overall, my 300B *amp *is mildly tubey. Comparing it to my audio buddy's WA22 highlights this to me. When I compare it to my GS-X Mk2, the drop in the technicalities with the Glenn 300B amp is surprisingly small. Really, really small with the very best detailed 300Bs (such as the ER300B).
> 
> Sorry if I didn't explain myself very well originally. The point I was trying to make is that my 300B amp gets its tube character from the 300B tube itself - as it has SS rectification and the C3g driver is ultra transparent. This is a good thing for my tastes. YMMV.



Thanks for the comparison of the 300b amp with your friend's WA22 and your GS-X Mk2. That gives me a better perspective. If the Glenn 300b amp gets really close to the GS-X Mk2's technicalities, then that's something ! With the Takatsuki 300b tube tone still vivid in my mind and your comparison with the GS-X Mk2, I have some idea of what the Glenn 300b amp sound like.

When we use terms like tubey or clinical, it's always in relation to some other amps. Taken in context, we have a better idea. Thanks !


----------



## UntilThen

What I would really like to find out is how Berlin will sound and how it compares to the Glenn 300b amp. That's looking into the future.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have a tube for @gibosi and his vast tube manufacturing knowledge.  NU Black Glass 12SN7.  To your knowledge did NU produce such a tube? Or is it more likely to be a Tung-Sol or Ken-Rad rebrand?

Great sounding tube, from which, generous bass emanates...


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> I have a tube for @gibosi and his vast tube manufacturing knowledge.  NU Black Glass 12SN7.  To your knowledge did NU produce such a tube? Or is it more likely to be a Tung-Sol or Ken-Rad rebrand?
> 
> Great sounding tube, from which, generous bass emanates...



A picture please. 

I know for sure that NU made a black glass 6SN7GT, and a gray one as well. But I am not sure if they manufactured a 12-volt version.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> What I would really like to find out is how Berlin will sound and how it compares to the Glenn 300b amp. That's looking into the future.



The Berlin you should have it made with the C3g for the driver then have a C3g to EL11 adapter made.
I think with the C3G driver it sound like the 300B amp then you can change the sound with the EL11.
You really want a transparent driver.


----------



## whirlwind

I have this one. Can't say for sure it is a NU or a rebrand.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Nice, Joe!   Here is my example:

  

Thanks @gibosi once again,  for the ID services


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The Berlin you should have it made with the C3g for the driver then have a C3g to EL11 adapter made.
> I think with the C3G driver it sound like the 300B amp then you can change the sound with the EL11.
> You really want a transparent driver.



I’d have to chew on this. If this is the route I want to go, then I’ll have both c3g and EL11 sockets as drivers... so using either or...


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The Berlin you should have it made with the C3g for the driver then have a C3g to EL11 adapter made.
> I think with the C3G driver it sound like the 300B amp then you can change the sound with the EL11.
> You really want a transparent driver.



I do not think the EL12 spez will sound anything like the 300b tube. More like a EL34 which is just as good.


----------



## 2359glenn

Maybe not as good but close for allot less money!!
The only problem with two driver tube sockets is I hate the way empty sockets look.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> I have this one. Can't say for sure it is a NU or a rebrand.


It's a NU.


----------



## UntilThen

I agree I don’t like empty sockets too. IMO Telefunken EL11 is nearly as revealing as c3g.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Maybe not as good but close for allot less money!!
> The only problem with two driver tube sockets is I hate the way empty sockets look.





UntilThen said:


> I agree I don’t like empty sockets too. IMO Telefunken EL11 is nearly as revealing as c3g.



This is why you use Yamamoto and Korean sockets, so you can gaze upon their beauty when there are no tubes in them


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> This is why you use Yamamoto and Korean sockets, so you can gaze upon their beauty when there are no tubes in them



Haha good point ! Or perhaps there are nice caps to cover it when not in use !


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> This is why you use Yamamoto and Korean sockets, so you can gaze upon their beauty when there are no tubes in them



I never thought of that


----------



## 2359glenn

BTW I got the Telefunken REN904 tubes today.
They are still beautiful tubes even though they have the silver covering on them.
Perfect new in box no chips or scratches on the covering


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> BTW I got the Telefunken REN904 tubes today.
> They are still beautiful tubes even though they have the silver covering on them.
> Perfect new in box no chips or scratches on the covering



Very nice, I have been looking for a nice pair myself, seems pretty rare for them to be free of chips.

I just ordered a pair of Valvos and RWN Neuhaus.  @Deyan  is almost finished with my 6.3V to 4V adapter for the GOTL.  He ran it for an hour straight with 4V tubes, stable temperature at 50C, looks like a winner!


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice, Joe!   Here is my example:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @gibosi once again,  for the ID services



And I agree with ATTMCI and Whirlwind. My 6-volt NU looks identical.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Very nice, I have been looking for a nice pair myself, seems pretty rare for them to be free of chips.
> 
> I just ordered a pair of Valvos and RWN Neuhaus.  @Deyan  is almost finished with my 6.3V to 4V adapter for the GOTL.  He ran it for an hour straight with 4V tubes, stable temperature at 50C, looks like a winner!



When I build your amp I will be running them on 4volts DC so no induced hum from the filament. 
I had the #27s running on 2.5 volt DC and my L63s are running on 6.3 volts DC.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> When I build your amp I will be running them on 4volts DC so no induced hum from the filament.
> I had the #27s running on 2.5 volt DC and my L63s are running on 6.3 volts DC.



Yes!  DC heat definitely helps chase away the Hum Monster  

.


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> I'm starting to appreciate Yggdrasil even more now. It has 2 sets of xlr out and 2 sets of rca out. So it can feed 4 tube amps and I don't need a preamp. It's pretty neutral and that's how I like my DAC. I'll add the colours with my tube amps.



Do you have a super special Aussie version of the Yggdrasil??? Cause as far as I know they only have 1 set of XLR outs (including mine). 



UntilThen said:


> Good day all. I visited the Canberra Space Centre today and it was a beautiful sunny day at 19 degree C. and I'm here to tell Glenn that if he comes and visit me, I'll take him to see and hear for himself if there's life in the outer galaxy. Maybe the aliens have a better headphone amp than us?



I immediately thought of "The Dish" when you posted that, but it's in New South Wales.


----------



## heliosphann

Oh boy... @zach915m did it agian.


----------



## Phantaminum

I’ve ended up keeping a pair of the Lorenz c3g to see if they could be used for a future project amp. Always liked the Lorenz compared to the Siemens on the GOTL.  Maybe it’s the reverb or the tonality but I found themb much more enjoyable. 

I finally received my adapter and popped them in Teton. I’m very impressed. Not only do they do a hell of a job with 3D localization and imaging but they’re crystal clear. It’s been a while since I got goosebumps and of all tracks on Chocolate Chip Trip from the new Tool album. 

I’m supposed to be reviewing the Meze Empyreans and instead kept playing track after track on the Verite.


----------



## GDuss

Phantaminum said:


> I’m supposed to be reviewing the Meze Empyreans and instead kept playing track after track on the Verite.



Enough said


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Do you have a super special Aussie version of the Yggdrasil??? Cause as far as I know they only have 1 set of XLR outs (including mine).
> 
> 
> 
> I immediately thought of "The Dish" when you posted that, but it's in New South Wales.



I was testing to see if anyone notice that error. You’re the only one to spot it. 

The Dish or Parkes Observatory in NSW ... I wasn’t even aware of that but now I do thanks to you. How did you know The Dish?


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Oh boy... @zach915m did it agian.



I hate you. Now I have to get this most exotic looking headphone.


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> I was testing to see if anyone notice that error. You’re the only one to spot it.
> 
> The Dish or Parkes Observatory in NSW ... I wasn’t even aware of that but now I do thanks to you. How did you know The Dish?



Love that film. Seen it several times. I'm actually quite fond of a lot of Australian cinema.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 16, 2019)

GDuss said:


> Because I'm following JV's lead, there is a Ken Rad metal 6N7 incoming, adapters for 6N7s as well as EL32's to C3g in the works, EL32's are here, and we'll see about what powers to run with this.  Fun times!!!


@JazzVinyl and GDGuss,

For me personally I prefer the metal RCA over the Ken-Rad 6N7's. Not guaranteeing this will translate the same on a Glenn amp having used it on my Euforia, but I do believe both amps are properly biased for 6N7's anyway. For me the Ken-Rad's sounded overtly lush / tubey and the RCA's with a superb... fantastic and thunderous bass control and definition, and more SS like / transparent. However it was a long road finding a perfectly functional / balanced pair of those RCA metal black 6N7's. I eventually isolated a modest 'rustling' sound I got with these tubes down to slight defects or age of individual tubes and after 3 pairs I finally found a pristine perfectly matched and perfectly silent combination and I'm quite happy with this pair. It seems that the slightly newer RCA 6N7's are less prone to issues, and sound identically great as the older ones. The tube on the right of both of these photos is I think the 'newer' version and I personally believe you can't go wrong with this type as long as the lettering looks just like this and they if they test well.


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Love that film. Seen it several times. I'm actually quite fond of a lot of Australian cinema.



Very interesting. Just read the summary of the film. Will have to watch it. Australia played an important role in the Apollo 11 mission. Armstrong words, ‘That’s one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind’, were transmitted to Earth by the signal from Honeysuckle Creek. The Antenna was decommissioned in 2009 and relocated to Canberra Space Centre where I took the picture of the giant antenna.


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> Oh boy... @zach915m did it agian.




Gorgeous!


----------



## GDuss

DecentLevi said:


> @JazzVinyl and GDGuss,
> 
> For me personally I prefer the metal RCA over the Ken-Rad 6N7's. Not guaranteeing this will translate the same on a Glenn amp having used it on my Euforia, but I do believe both amps are properly biased for 6N7's anyway. For me the Ken-Rad's sounded overtly lush / tubey and the RCA's with a superb... fantastic and thunderous bass control and definition, and more SS like / transparent. However it was a long road finding a perfectly functional / balanced pair of those RCA metal black 6N7's. I eventually isolated a modest 'rustling' sound I got with these tubes down to slight defects or age of individual tubes and after 3 pairs I finally found a pristine perfectly matched and perfectly silent combination and I'm quite happy with this pair. It seems that the slightly newer RCA 6N7's are less prone to issues, and sound identically great as the older ones. The tube on the right of both of these photos is I think the 'newer' version and I personally believe you can't go wrong with this type as long as the lettering looks just like this and they if they test well.



Thanks for the descriptions and comparisons.  @JazzVinyl will have to comment on how the Ken Rad's sound in the GOTL as I don't have them yet.  But even if they are overly lush, I'm ok with that as it will be a good option when I'm in the mood for the "tubey" sound.  I'll keep an eye out for the newer looking RCAs.  There seems to be some VT-96 versions (military?) and standard ones.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> Thanks for the descriptions and comparisons.  @JazzVinyl will have to comment on how the Ken Rad's sound in the GOTL as I don't have them yet.  But even if they are overly lush, I'm ok with that as it will be a good option when I'm in the mood for the "tubey" sound.  I'll keep an eye out for the newer looking RCAs.  There seems to be some VT-96 versions (military?) and standard ones.



6N7 behaves a bit differently in the GOTL from the FA offering.  I have the metal RCA's, too, on the Glenn, the Ken-Rad is better imho.  Later found an NOS NU 6N7 and it is outstanding as well.  Had 6N7G (in ST bottles) for the FA amp and thought they were better than the metal ones in that amp.

Also, results are headphone choice specific, I would think.

Glenn told me when I ordered the GOTL to "forget what I knew about a certain tubes' sound" that his architecture was so different that they would not sound the same in his amp.  That proved true. 
The 6N7 is a great sounding tube in the GOTL, in my amp I have to use low mu powers, when I run 6N7 because of hum.  Externally heating the SN7 socket with DC current, eliminates the hum and higher mu powers (6BX/BL7's) are then okay to use with the 6N7's.  Lower mu drivers - never any noticeable hum.


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> 6N7 behaves a bit differently in the GOTL from the FA offering.  I have the metal RCA's, too, on the Glenn, the Ken-Rad is better imho.  Later found an NOS NU 6N7 and it is outstanding as well.  Had 6N7G (in ST bottles) for the FA amp and thought they were better than the metal ones in that amp.
> 
> Also, results are headphone choice specific, I would think.
> 
> ...



I figured you would have thoughts on this matter .


----------



## UntilThen

An amp review is not complete without comparison to other amps even if they are of different design. GOTL has finally met it's match in the Woo Audio WA22. 

I've often been curious what WA22 owners hears with 4 x 6bx7 as compared to my GOTL running 6 x 6bx7. Well now I can find out for myself.

The WA22 SET amp with these tubes are as punchy and as dynamic as the GOTL with sextet 6bx7. WA22 slightly leaner and sharper but very good. GOTL running Mullard EL32 and 6 x 6bx7 has incredible punch and force and the OTL tube tone is just beautiful. Which do I like better? It's hard to say really. Both amps are incredible with Verite Open and HD800.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> An amp review is not complete without comparison to other amps even if they are of different design. GOTL has finally met it's match in the Woo Audio WA22.
> 
> I've often been curious what WA22 owners hears with 4 x 6bx7 as compared to my GOTL running 6 x 6bx7. Well now I can find out for myself.
> 
> The WA22 SET amp with these tubes are as punchy and as dynamic as the GOTL with sextet 6bx7. WA22 slightly leaner and sharper but very good. GOTL running Mullard EL32 and 6 x 6bx7 has incredible punch and force and the OTL tube tone is just beautiful. Which do I like better? It's hard to say really. Both amps are incredible with Verite Open and HD800.



Sounds like you are surrounded by fabulous amplification.  But we need a tie-breaker.  Which one has the most beautiful sockets?


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> I have one NOS Ken Rad 1633 black glass (25 volt version) and 2 NOS Ken Rad 6sn7gt black glass. They aren't use as much. I don't consider them in my top tier drivers. YMMV.





Monsterzero said:


> I didn't like it much either until the VC.



Bingo!  The headphone makes all the difference!!  Especially noticeable with the GOTL


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 16, 2019)

Can someone who has experience using tubes with mesh plates comment on how they positively or negatively (or don't) impact sound?  As I am dabbling in older tubes, the mesh is coming up more often.  Based on the year, I believe my Marconi MH4s likely have mesh plates, but they are coated so I cannot be sure.  I have read the sound is overall desirable in rectifiers (and they purdy ), unsure of driver and power tubes.


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Can someone who has experience using tubes with mesh plates comment on how they positively or negatively (or don't) impact sound?  As I am dabbling in older tubes, the mesh is coming up more often.  Based on the year, I believe my Marconi MH4s likely have mesh plates, but they are coated so I cannot be sure.  I have read the sound is overall desirable in rectifiers (and they purdy ), unsure of driver and power tubes.



In my experience with rectifiers and #27 triodes, the tonal difference is very subtle. And since I am not in a position to make blind comparisons, I am not sure if what I am hearing is entirely due to my expectations -- they are "supposed" to sound better!  lol.  So I wouldn't encourage anyone to pay a premium for mesh plates. But for sure, they look nice.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Sounds like you are surrounded by fabulous amplification.  But we need a tie-breaker.  Which one has the most beautiful sockets?



That’s an unfair question. If GOTL has the same premium price as a new WA22, then it will have just as good sockets and chassis. 

Another thing one is a SET amp the other OTL. So it’s apples to orange comparison but the fact they are on equal footing in terms of SQ says something.

All I can say is Berlin will have the best sockets.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> All I can say is Berlin will have the best sockets.



Berlin has some serious competition when it shows up.  It will need to walk in the room with the best looking sockets possible, and make the competition jealous .


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Berlin has some serious competition when it shows up.  It will need to walk in the room with the best looking sockets possible, and make the competition jealous .



And also the best transformers!!! Remember the transformers? 

Optimus Prime and Bumberbee


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> That’s an unfair question. If GOTL has the same premium price as a new WA22, then it will have just as good sockets and chassis.
> 
> Another thing one is a SET amp the other OTL. So it’s apples to orange comparison but the fact they are on equal footing in terms of SQ says something.
> 
> All I can say is Berlin will have the best sockets.



The WA-22 is not a SET it is a push pull amp not single ended.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> That’s an unfair question. If GOTL has the same premium price as a new WA22, then it will have just as good sockets and chassis.
> 
> Another thing one is a SET amp the other OTL. So it’s apples to orange comparison but the fact they are on equal footing in terms of SQ says something.
> 
> All I can say is Berlin will have the best sockets.



Hi UT, glad you're finding the best WA22 has to offer, and enjoying it so much. Appreciate the ongoing comparisons, good to hear from someone who has the GOTL.

Point well taken about the price differential. 
So, what I'm hearing is that WA can produce an amp that sounds as good as the GOTL... For TWICE the price!
Still, that is great for both WA22 owners and the industry as a whole. 
Fact is, we are all aware that Glenn offers fantastic value that few amp builders can match.

Apples to oranges, and all is fair in love and war, and amplifier reviews, sure why not?
Wonder what a Glenn OTL would sound like at that price point.

Would like to hear your impressions on how the two sound side by side with drivers that, IMHO, really shine in the GOTL. (No disrespect to the EL32 of course.)
Respecting the current limitations of the WA22, that would include at least up to 950mA, which is the heater current for the WA22 officially compatible ECC32.
Any chance? A run with ECC32s or 6N7s?

(BTW, assuming it's safe to use those 6BX7s in WA22, drawing 3A per channel rather than the official 2.5A. Guessing someone checked with Woo.)

Thanks, UT, keep the impressions coming.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The WA-22 is not a SET it is a push pull amp not single ended.



DC current is cancelled in the output stage...correct ?     Less distortion ?


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> DC current is cancelled in the output stage...correct ?     Less distortion ?



Yes and no. The DC magnetizing current gets canceled so the output transformer don't need a air gap so it don't get
magnetized limiting the bass. But a push pull amp can have crossover distortion it if the two half's of the signal are not
exactly the same.  And no two tubes amplify exactly the same not even the two half's of the same 6AS7.
I personally like the sound of single ended better. The signal is not split into two opposites then put back together
in the output transformer. 
Usually push pull amps make much more power
But this is debatable and I don't want to start a uproar  .


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> In my experience with rectifiers and #27 triodes, the tonal difference is very subtle. And since I am not in a position to make blind comparisons, I am not sure if what I am hearing is entirely due to my expectations -- they are "supposed" to sound better!  lol.  So I wouldn't encourage anyone to pay a premium for mesh plates. But for sure, they look nice.



Thanks! I'll keep this in mind, don't want to overpay for subtle differences (but I just might overpay for beauty differences ).

When my amp is built I will probably lose my mind at some point and get a mesh RGN2504, we'll see if I can stave off the tube crazies.


----------



## Monsterzero

@2359glenn  sent payment for the rectifier and adapter today. 
I also received a NOS Brimar 5Z4GY yesterday,which cannot be used in the GOTL. Its warmer and richer sounding vs. the TS Potato Masher I had in my DAC previously .Very nice improvement.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks! I'll keep this in mind, don't want to overpay for subtle differences (but I just might overpay for beauty differences ).
> 
> When my amp is built I will probably lose my mind at some point and get a mesh RGN2504, we'll see if I can stave off the tube crazies.



Forget it you can't stave off tube craziness. Look how much I spent on REN904s and I don't even know how they sound yet.
This is no win just lose lose your money but it is fun. And I have been doing this for 50 years now and still have no self control.

About mesh plate rectifiers they look great but usually can't handle as much current as a solid plate


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The WA-22 is not a SET it is a push pull amp not single ended.



This is news to me !


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> This is news to me !



Woo used to market it as a balanced amp of course it is all push pull amps are balanced just most don't have a balanced input.
Signal goes in single ended then goes to a phase inverter making it balanced in most push pull amps.
I upgraded WA-22s in the past and they were surely were push pull amps.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Doin' the 'mordy' and going out to speakers...

With my BALANCED->OTL*->*SET*->*SEXY-TRANSFORMER'ED*->*DAC-LESS*->*TURNTABLE*->*SOURCE*->*SELF

And lemme tell ya...6x 6BX7 Special issue red base Triple Mica'd Sylvania-*GE*_c _powers *LOVE* the RCA 1633!!




The house is Rockin'!!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Woo used to market it as a balanced amp of course it is all push pull amps are balanced just most don't have a balanced input.
> Signal goes in single ended then goes to a phase inverter making it balanced in most push pull amps.
> I upgraded WA-22s in the past and they were surely were push pull amps.



Interesting. So you upgraded WA22 in the past.

My WA22 has xlr input as well as rca input. From my DAC Yggdrasil I have an xlr cable output to the xlr input of the WA22. I was told by the previous owner that this makes it balanced - of course my headphone cable are terminated with xlr connectors.

So is this balanced ?


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Interesting. So you upgraded WA22 in the past.
> 
> My WA22 has xlr input as well as rca input. From my DAC Yggdrasil I have an xlr cable output to the xlr input of the WA22. I was told by the previous owner that this makes it balanced - of course my headphone cable are terminated with xlr connectors.
> 
> So is this balanced ?



I guess if you want to call it that.
To me it is no longer balanced after the two out of phase signals are put back together in the output transformer.
I am not getting into this argument.  It is all a marketing thing that Peale be leave.


----------



## SonicTrance

UntilThen said:


> So is this balanced ?


Yes. If you run XLR in you have a balanced signal from end to end. It's basically four amplifiers inside the amp. Two phases per channel.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I guess if you want to call it that.
> To me it is no longer balanced after the two out of phase signals are put back together in the output transformer.
> I am not getting into this argument.  It is all a marketing thing that Peale be leave.



Not an argument at all. Just a good to know for me. I’m not particularly concerned about whether it’s balanced or not. As long as it sounds good.


----------



## UntilThen

SonicTrance said:


> Yes. If you run XLR in you have a balanced signal from end to end. It's basically four amplifiers inside the amp. Two phases per channel.



Thanks. Again it’s a good to know for me. I do not seek a balanced amp. If it’s there I use it.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 16, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Forget it you can't stave off tube craziness. Look how much I spent on REN904s and I don't even know how they sound yet.
> This is no win just lose lose your money but it is fun. And I have been doing this for 50 years now and still have no self control.



Yeah I might as well accept it.  When I start my new job in January, the cap for what I will pay for a tube will go up, but it is already pretty high.  My French tube seller (henceforth the "French Connection") found he had another pair of those beautiful Marconi MH4 tubes.  So now I am up to two pairs of those, a pair of the military smoked glass CV399, pair of Valvo A4110, and a pair of RWN Neuhaus K1694, and I have no idea what they sound like HAHA!  But I have faith, when Deyan's adapter arrives, the mystery will be revealed.

Only place I have seen any kind of impressions is here in this blog, "a Direct Heating Triode Blog", a guy building a 6J5 line stage: http://a-direct-heating-triode.blogspot.com/2016/04/6j5-line-preamplifier-part-1.html

"Playing with triodes for decades taught me that the ones that could be used are not so numerous. For the indirect I would go to the 27 (76, 6C5, 6J5) family of tubes or the *Bi / REN904 and PTT100*, for the direct the RS242 and relatives, the 841 and some post tubes like Aa and PTT0. *All these tubes share excellent linearity, medium µ and exceptional sonic qualities.* Unfortunately most are expensive or too scarce for the average amateur I am and I decided to go for the 76/6J5."


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> About mesh plate rectifiers they look great but usually can't handle as much current as a solid plate



I am very curious to know what the final current draw will be with the 6J5/MH4 > EL34/KT66/6L6 setup.  The RGN2504 does 180mA at 500 volts.  I'm somewhat hopeful that I will also be able to use the RGN2004 / 1561 4V rectifier family in this amp, but they will only do around 135mA at 400-425V from my reading.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> *All these tubes share excellent linearity, medium µ and exceptional sonic qualities.* Unfortunately most are expensive or too scarce for the average amateur I am and I decided to go for the 76/6J5."



12J5's rule the world.  Cheap, 75+ year old ones can still be found in perfect condition for almost no money.


----------



## GDuss

Related to recent discussions about accepting the tube craziness, how is it possible that there are only 3 posts in this thread?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tubeaholic.242985/


----------



## 2359glenn

SonicTrance said:


> Yes. If you run XLR in you have a balanced signal from end to end. It's basically four amplifiers inside the amp. Two phases per channel.



What is it after the two balanced signals are put together in the transformer the output of the transformer is single ended.
If this is the case all transformer coupled amps are balanced at the output.
Really a bunch of marketing BS.


----------



## 2359glenn

GDuss said:


> Related to recent discussions about accepting the tube craziness, how is it possible that there are only 3 posts in this thread?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tubeaholic.242985/



Because all the tube wackos hang out here and I am the wackest of them all.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am very curious to know what the final current draw will be with the 6J5/MH4 > EL34/KT66/6L6 setup.  The RGN2504 does 180mA at 500 volts.  I'm somewhat hopeful that I will also be able to use the RGN2004 / 1561 4V rectifier family in this amp, but they will only do around 135mA at 400-425V from my reading.



I would stay with the RGN2504 but I don't what voltage I am running the amp at yet. According to how much power you want.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Because all the tube wackos hang out here and I am the wackest of them all.



LOL "Daddy Wacko"


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Because all the tube wackos hang out here and I am the wackest of them all.



Yeah, I've only got a little over hundred #27's so for sure you are wackier than me. lol


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Yeah, I've only got a little over hundred #27's so for sure you are wackier than me. lol



G is "King Wacko"  LOL


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Would like to hear your impressions on how the two sound side by side with drivers that, IMHO, really shine in the GOTL. (No disrespect to the EL32 of course.)
> Respecting the current limitations of the WA22, that would include at least up to 950mA, which is the heater current for the WA22 officially compatible ECC32.
> Any chance? A run with ECC32s or 6N7s?



Don’t have the ECC32 and I don’t think the ECC32 is better than the ECC33 and ECC35 that I have. Just different.

My fav drivers in GOTL with sextet 6bx7 are
Mullard ECC33
Mullard ECC35
Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
GEC B36
Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp
Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp
Telefunken EL11 
Philips Miniwatt EL3N
Mullard EL32
Siemens c3g
Mullard ECC31 - this one is border line for me.

I may like Mazda 6N7G, Fivre 6N7G brown base or Marconi 6N7 metal shield but IMO they are not in the same calibre as the above. YMMV.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Don’t have the ECC32 and I don’t think the ECC32 is better than the ECC33 and ECC35 that I have. Just different.
> 
> My fav drivers in GOTL with sextet 6bx7 are
> Mullard ECC33
> ...



Depends heavily on the headphones that are plugged in to the GOTL.  Everyone with different headphones than you, will probably have different fav's...


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Depends heavily on the headphones that are plugged in to the GOTL.  Everyone with different headphones than you, will probably have different fav's...


Hi UT,
It took me a while to realize that the same tube may sound different in different amps, even though some tubes sound great in many applications.
Now I am starting to realize that different headphones used with the same amp may require a different tube complement to sound their best.
Possibly this applies more to different manufacturers than different headphones from the same manufacturer.
Any thoughts?


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> It took me a while to realize that the same tube may sound different in different amps, even though some tubes sound great in many applications.
> Now I am starting to realize that different headphones used with the same amp may require a different tube complement to sound their best.
> Possibly this applies more to different manufacturers than different headphones from the same manufacturer.
> Any thoughts?


 My VO and VC like entirely different rolls. Additionally the tubes UT likes for the VO,I dont dig too much. 
Im guessing personal preferences,as well as upstream gear plays a large part as well.


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> Don’t have the ECC32 and I don’t think the ECC32 is better than the ECC33 and ECC35 that I have. Just different.
> 
> My fav drivers in GOTL with sextet 6bx7 are
> Mullard ECC33
> ...



Uh, sorry, didn't realize EL32 already was one of your favorites. Never mind. 
Never really got excited about the EL32 in the GOTL, have the ST clear bottle, and the EL2, same tube different base.
Thought I heard you speak highly of some 6N7Gs in the past, and had enough of the them for a comparison.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy and Monster preempted what I was about to say. Evaluating a tube on its own is pretty useless. In any case you can’t. It’s always in an amp that you can hear what the tube sounds like and that is with your DAC and headphone, cables, power conditioner, etc and finally what you listen to (music) and of course your ears preference.

So yeah it’s the whole works.


----------



## UntilThen

Above all though there is another important criteria for me.

A tube combination in a setup has to sound very good....  AS WELL as be quiet. A noisy combination is a no no for me regardless of how good it sound.


----------



## mordy

They don't make them as pretty any more...a pair of L63 tubes:


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> This is no win just lose lose your money but it is fun. And I have been doing this for 50 years now and still have no self control.



Glenn, I think this 1 sentence summarizes very nicely the whole tube rolling craze!  Well said


----------



## Zachik

JazzVinyl said:


> Cheap, 75+ year old ones can still be found in perfect condition for almost no money.


Taken out of context - this statement could sound REALLY bad!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Zachik said:


> Taken out of context - this statement could sound REALLY bad!



Haha...


----------



## SonicTrance

2359glenn said:


> What is it after the two balanced signals are put together in the transformer the output of the transformer is single ended.
> If this is the case all transformer coupled amps are balanced at the output.
> Really a bunch of marketing BS.


I didn't know Woo used SE output. As they have XLR connections I thought they had actual balanced output with a centertap at the OT secondary. That's what I do anyway. Then there's no BS lol.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> Uh, sorry, didn't realize EL32 already was one of your favorites. Never mind.
> Never really got excited about the EL32 in the GOTL, have the ST clear bottle, and the EL2, same tube different base.
> Thought I heard you speak highly of some 6N7Gs in the past, and had enough of the them for a comparison.



EL32 grew on me. Didn’t like it that much initially, especially when I thought it was the cause of my amp failure. It’s not because of EL32 of course. EL32 is not my top tube because of it’s lower gain but it more than make up with being very quiet with sextet 6bx7.

I like 6N7G in my days with Elise and Euforia. Since getting GOTL, I’ve gotten a lot more better drivers (IMO) and so 6N7G have slide off my radar. Evidence by the number of times I’ve use it now.

ECC35, ECC33, GEC B36 and Sylvania 6sn7w metal base if I’ve to name my top 4 drivers. You all know my setup and headphones now so I don’t need to repeat that.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> It took me a while to realize that the same tube may sound different in different amps, even though some tubes sound great in many applications.



Only a slight variation. I do not agree that a power tube sound completely different in for instance Euforia as compared to in GOTL.

For example, GEC 6as7g or Tung Sol 5998 will always have their signature tone regardless of whether I heard it in Euforia, La Figaro 339, WA22 or GOTL. There may be a slight variation but you can still hear it as the unique tone of GEC 6as7g or Tung Sol 5998. Any variations are as a result of the amp unique sound signature but it shouldn’t change the tube sound such that you can’t recognise it anymore.


----------



## UntilThen

rnros said:


> (BTW, assuming it's safe to use those 6BX7s in WA22, drawing 3A per channel rather than the official 2.5A. Guessing someone checked with Woo.)



A whole army of WA22 owners are using quad 6bx7s. If it ain’t right, there would be a lot of burn out amps by now. 

I find other other power tubes sound as good if not better than 6bx7 in WA22. So it’s not a permanent power tubes setup for me. Besides I’m OCD with stacking tubes in this manner. It’s a big turn off for me.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> A whole army of WA22 owners are using quad 6bx7s. If it ain’t right, there would be a lot of burn out amps by now.
> 
> I find other other power tubes sound as good if not better than 6bx7 in WA22. So it’s not a permanent power tubes setup for me. Besides I’m OCD with stacking tubes in this manner. It’s a big turn off for me.



Might sound good but looks crappy!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Might sound good but looks crappy!



Exactly. Precisely what I thought of those using multiple adapters in Euforia, especially those external power supplies. I could not get into those DIY kind of build no matter how good they sound. Maybe it's just me but I doubt.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 17, 2019)

I have not heard any 300B, 2A3,45 tubes.  Maybe every one of these sound better than the EL34 tubes...I can't say.

I can say that of all of the tubes that I have heard...that these are my favorites for electric guitar.

I have listened to them with LCD-3   ZMF Ori     ZMF Atticus with such artist as
Joe Bonamassa/Snowy White/Gary Moore/Kenny Wayne Shepherd/Stevie Ray Vaughn/Johnny Winter

I think they pair wonderfully with the EL3N tubes, but am excited to hear them with other drivers.

The GZ32 rectifier adds warmth...The Telefunken AZ12 adds a bit of air and a brighter tone.

This is all with my ears and gear and music and cans and dac,,,,ect....ect

I must say that I am really excited to be able to hear them some day in another amp with other cans.

I can't wait to try the KT66 also...but to this point these are my all -time favorite tubes for electric guitar......YMMV

Currently listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn Texas Flood  DSD64X........KILLER!


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 17, 2019)

leftside said:


> I really like the WA22, but trust me, the 300B is a noticeable improvement - especially with harder to drive headphones. I've thrown the very best tubes at the WA22 (i.e. WE422A with adapter, early Osram U52 black base/inverted cup getter _rectifiers_, early Mullard ECC32 with foil getters and GEC L63 black base/cup getters/smoked glass _drivers_, and WE421 and GEC 6AS7G _power _tubes) and it's still not as good as the 300B.
> (...)


Are you saying my new GEC L63 are not the best? That the above mentioned type are better, in in what way if you don't mind to mention? I got this type below from Langrex (Yitry on eBay)




UntilThen said:


> Joe that's a brilliant idea. I was going to suggest to DL to have a single 6sn7 as driver as well as dual L63 / 6J5. One extra socket in front and middle for the 6sn7 will still look good. Even tempted to have a single 6sn7 added to Berlin but I want to preserve the look of EL11 / EL12 spez with a single tube rectifier.


Thanks for the idea. I'm considering it but I do wonder if having two sets of sockets wired in either series or parallel will inevitably degrade the signal in any way with the longer signal path that will still be at play when using either 6SN7 or dual 6J5, vs. having a good dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter from Deyan. Then there's also the extra open sockets non-'eye candy' Haha. It would however reduce wear on socket savers, which I'm phasing out in hopes of getting a more pure signal path.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Exactly. Precisely what I thought of those using multiple adapters in Euforia, especially those external power supplies. I could not get into those DIY kind of build no matter how good they sound. Maybe it's just me but I doubt.



Part of the tube experience is definitely aesthetic, adapters don't look the best but sometimes you need 'em to get the job done (or experiment for future amps ).  Ideally, you get ones that blend in and aren't too obnoxious.



whirlwind said:


> I have not heard any 300B, 2A3,45 tubes.  Maybe every one of these sound better than the EL34 tubes...I can't say.
> 
> I can say that of all of the tubes that I have heard...that these are my favorites for electric guitar.
> 
> ...



Looks awesome Joe, bet it sounds fantastic, makes sense why these tubes are so coveted in guitar amps.  Can't wait to hear them myself, I am parsing through the various types of EL34, which ones are desirable, which aren't etc.  Seems EL34s have an entire tube religion for themselves, people love them.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

DecentLevi said:


> Are you saying my new GEC L63 are not the best? That the above mentioned type are better, in in what way if you don't mind to mention? I got this type below from Langrex (Yitry on eBay)



The most desirable GEC L63 are the WWII era, ST shape and smoked glass.  They are around double the price of the later straight clear glass, construction is markedly different.  The ST-shaped grey glass are one of the best drivers I own, might be the best.  Only person on the thread I know of who has tried both is Leftside, I'm just gonna quote him for him 



leftside said:


> They are all great tubes, but my slight preference is grey glass ST shape > straight D getter > straight halo getter. The grey glass ST are some of my favorite driver tubes, right up there with some of the other well known favorites like the ECC32.



If the difference is slight, might be better to save your money!


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Part of the tube experience is definitely aesthetic, adapters don't look the best but sometimes you need 'em to get the job done (or experiment for future amps ). Ideally, you get ones that blend in and aren't too obnoxious.



My days of experimentation are over. I want good sound, beautiful design now. You don't see Yamamoto's amp using adapters do you? 

Studio Six is clean and elegant.
 

Yamamoto 300b amp is ultra sexy
 

Look at the sockets


----------



## UntilThen

What do you see in these 3 units? They are clean cut and elegant. All 3 beautiful in their own right.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> My days of experimentation are over. I want good sound, beautiful design now. You don't see Yamamoto's amp using adapters do you?
> 
> Studio Six is clean and elegant.
> 
> ...



Beautiful, never thought socket porn would be a thing  please don't Google that.

Had you not experimented, M, you would not have known to create Berlin.  Likewise, my MH4 adapter will inform decisions on my future amp.  Using the 6J5 adapter in the GOTL showed me they are my favorite driver tubes.  We'll see if that lasts after the 4V Renaissance.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 17, 2019)

Be still, my beating heart.

Good thing one looks used or I would be tempted to bid on these.  18 watchers, it's gonna get ugly.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marconi-MH...L-tubes-valves-100-suit-PX4-PX25/293275198537


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Only a slight variation. I do not agree that a power tube sound completely different in for instance Euforia as compared to in GOTL.
> 
> For example, GEC 6as7g or Tung Sol 5998 will always have their signature tone regardless of whether I heard it in Euforia, La Figaro 339, WA22 or GOTL. There may be a slight variation but you can still hear it as the unique tone of GEC 6as7g or Tung Sol 5998. Any variations are as a result of the amp unique sound signature but it shouldn’t change the tube sound such that you can’t recognise it anymore.


Hi UT,
Agree with your statement. However, what I had in mind is a more holistic view taking into account how all the tubes work together. In my current setup I choose a pair of Bendix 6080 because of the punchy bass AND a pair of RCA 6080 because of the warmth and mid bass. Somehow this synergy works very well and incorporates the advantages of both tubes and provides a great platform for exploring different drivers.
To be a little philosophical, a single color could be very pretty,  but true beauty comes out in a mixture of colors.


----------



## mordy

Maybe I am in a minority,  but esthetics are not a major priority for me. When I listen I rarely look at the amp - either looking at a screen or doing work at my desk. My main priority is how it sounds. A nice looking amp is a plus, but empty sockets and ugly adapters don't bother me that much. Function over form.....


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Agree with your statement. However, what I had in mind is a more holistic view taking into account how all the tubes work together. In my current setup I choose a pair of Bendix 6080 because of the punchy bass AND a pair of RCA 6080 because of the warmth and mid bass. Somehow this synergy works very well and incorporates the advantages of both tubes and provides a great platform for exploring different drivers.
> To be a little philosophical, a single color could be very pretty,  but true beauty comes out in a mixture of colors.



Presumably this is a similar idea to having drivers in the C3g slots and 6SN7 slots at the same time?  A mixture of colors.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Maybe I am in a minority,  but esthetics are not a major priority for me. When I listen I rarely look at the amp - either looking at a screen or doing work at my desk. My main priority is how it sounds. A nice looking amp is a plus, but empty sockets and ugly adapters don't bother me that much. Function over form.....



Agreed.  What I am typically fixated on while listening is the computer screen (assuming I have my eyes open and not closed because I'm being wowed by the music).  Admittedly, aesthetics plays a part in overall satisfaction with any piece of equipment (so does the feel of the components e.g. volume knobs etc), but it's not the driving factor to me... of course, it can't be an eyesore, and the volume knob can't grind when you turn it, or be totally off center .


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Oct 17, 2019)

It's been a fun week. Cleaned up the pins of my GEC 6AS7G and started running them on 10th Oct...



Nice tone, very balanced across the full range and good body to sound. Loses out on slam to the TS5998/WE421A tubes, but not everyone wants hard bass all the time 



NU 6SN7 arrived just before the weekend, the black glass has a cute window at the top of the tube lol.



Been running in the NU on and off, but seems to have a bit of hum. No matter, got  myself 2 pairs of NU 12J5T coming, just need to get the adaptor made...

Next up -


HEKSE with ECC32, WE422A and WE421A with the 5998/421A switch on for more current. Lovely combo, could listen to this all day.



But for tonight, back to the Brimar 25SN7 that Glenn sent me, with a set of 4x triple mica D getter Sylvania 6BX7 and 2x two mica halo getter Tung Sol 6BX7 tubes. Had a pair of RCA 6BX7 side O getter tubes in before the plugging in the TS pair, but I think the RCA have a bit of hum to them. This set is quiet, enjoying the dynamics of the 6x 6BX7 combo with the Verite. Toned down the bass a notch by rolling pads to the Universe suede.

Really enjoying my first 2 weeks with the GOTL amp


----------



## OctavianH

Is anybody able to tell me the weight of a 10 socket GOTL in kg?


----------



## rnros

UntilThen said:


> EL32 grew on me. Didn’t like it that much initially, especially when I thought it was the cause of my amp failure. It’s not because of EL32 of course. EL32 is not my top tube because of it’s lower gain but it more than make up with being very quiet with sextet 6bx7.
> 
> I like 6N7G in my days with Elise and Euforia. Since getting GOTL, I’ve gotten a lot more better drivers (IMO) and so 6N7G have slide off my radar. Evidence by the number of times I’ve use it now.
> 
> ECC35, ECC33, GEC B36 and Sylvania 6sn7w metal base if I’ve to name my top 4 drivers. You all know my setup and headphones now so I don’t need to repeat that.



Yes, I recall that a few people initially had noise issues with EL32 and 6BX7s. Glad it all worked out.
So many great tubes available, but I agree with recent posts, ultimately favorites depend on ears, gears, music, and personal preferences.


----------



## rnros

whirlwind said:


> I have not heard any 300B, 2A3,45 tubes.  Maybe every one of these sound better than the EL34 tubes...I can't say.
> 
> I can say that of all of the tubes that I have heard...that these are my favorites for electric guitar.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the detailed updates on the EL34s in the GEL3N. Looking forward to giving those a try.


----------



## Zachik

OctavianH said:


> Is anybody able to tell me the weight of a 10 socket GOTL in kg?


Mine is 10.5Kg or so.

Edit: I think the Lundahl transformer version (mine is not) adds a little to the weight!


----------



## mordy

When I first got interested in tube amps some 10 years ago I did not think that it was possible to arrive at general conclusions and recommendations given all the differences in equipment and people’s hearing and preferences.
However, to my surprise I found that there can be general agreement on certain groups of tubes and certain pieces of equipment.
This is where I feel that people’s reviews and impressions are so important. By following the explorations and adventures of different people I have found people that hear things similar to me, or I can understand what aspects of the sound reproduction they like.
Based on this I can get an idea regarding what I might like ( or dislike lol ). In addition, since there are so many possibilities with the GOTL, I find it very helpful to hear about other people’s experiences and I get ideas what to try out that I would not think of myself.
So keep those reviews coming!
I also find it amusing that a number of people on this forum are invertebrate tube rollers (including myself) whereas the designer of this enormously versatile amp prefers to stay with the same tubes. Well, almost....


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> invertebrate tube rollers



LOL!!! I thought we were all rabbits, chasing down holes .


----------



## Phantaminum

GDuss said:


> LOL!!! I thought we were all rabbits, chasing down holes .



Imagination running wild today. I pictured UT as the Rabbit saying he doesn’t have enough time and he must be off to roll the next tube and Glenn being the Caterpillar on the mushroom asking if you want a hit of a tube amp.


----------



## GDuss

Phantaminum said:


> Imagination running wild today. I pictured UT as the Rabbit saying he doesn’t have enough time and he must be off to roll the next tube and Glenn being the Caterpillar on the mushroom asking if you want a hit of a tube amp.



Love it.  Who is the Cheshire cat?


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> Imagination running wild today. I pictured UT as the Rabbit saying he doesn’t have enough time and he must be off to roll the next tube and Glenn being the Caterpillar on the mushroom asking if you want a hit of a tube amp.



Wow so many posts to respond to. Almost need a full time job here to do that. But I'll just respond to Phantom's post with a gif.


----------



## UntilThen

This is what I'll say to Glenn.


----------



## UntilThen

And this is how I greet all of you.


----------



## GDuss




----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> It's been a fun week. Cleaned up the pins of my GEC 6AS7G and started running them on 10th Oct...



So that's where you've been. Cleaning pins and tube rolling ! Wabbit 

As usual, outstanding picture and wonderful tubes. You've got class there mate with those tubes and headphones..... and where's that picture of the priceless, vintage Sansui AU-7700 that I sold you?


----------



## UntilThen

Something's come over me recently. After I've gotten 3 tube amps, my tube rolling has trickle down to almost a stand still..... compared to when I had just GOTL.

So my recommendation to any of you wanting to curb your tube rolling is to get a few tube amps.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Had you not experimented, M, you would not have known to *create Berlin*.



Ha keep saying that and Germany or rather the world will sue me for rewriting history ....


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Something's come over me recently. After I've gotten 3 tube amps, my tube rolling has trickle down to almost a stand still..... compared to when I had just GOTL.
> 
> So my recommendation to any of you wanting to curb your tube rolling is to get a few tube amps.



The thing is with Glenn’s amp is that most if not all tubes just sound great. So you’ll roll some power tubes and you’re like, “This is where it’s at!” then the driver tube, “Oh that sounds even better...nice” unlike some other amps which you roll a tube, “Damn too warm” then another, “Geez now it went to totally the opposite direction” then you finally dial it in and it’s like a house of cards...don’t touch it unless you want it to all come tumbling down.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> The thing is with Glenn’s amp is that most if not all tubes just sound great. So you’ll roll some power tubes and you’re like, “This is where it’s at!” then the driver tube, “Oh that sounds even better...nice” unlike some other amps which you roll a tube, “Damn too warm” then another, “Geez now it went to totally the opposite direction” then you finally dial it in and it’s like a house of cards...don’t touch it unless you want it to all come tumbling down.



The thing is I haven't been rolling tubes much with the new arrivals because after a few rolls I've been very happy with it. Especially with Studio Six and that's because I roll in tubes based on the previous owner recommendation and he got it right except for the driver ! It's now sporting Mullard ECC33, Brimar 6V6G, Mullard OB2, Mullard GZ34 Backburn.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Since @L0rdGwyn likes rare and expensive tubes, here ya go:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6j5g-tube-...-quad-349a-western-electric-army/254363152326


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Since @L0rdGwyn likes rare and expensive tubes, here ya go:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6j5g-tube-...-quad-349a-western-electric-army/254363152326



They are gorgeous!


----------



## JazzVinyl

rnros said:


> Yes, I recall that a few people initially had noise issues with EL32 and 6BX7s. Glad it all worked out.
> So many great tubes available, but I agree with recent posts, ultimately favorites depend on ears, gears, music, and personal preferences.



For certain the EL32 did not cause UT's amp problems.  The EL32 by themselves are that spectacular.  But, with certain headphones, the EL32's adapted to the C3g sockets add spectacularly to a driver present in the SN7 socket.

The Sennheiser HD580/600/650/6xx all benefit immensely from the addition of the EL32's.  I have re-bought a  pair of Beyer DT-990's and it clearly does not benefit from this arrangement and likes the SN7 only, vastly better.

Would like to see those with different cans try driver triplet to see if it makes magic as it does in the Sennheiser headphones.

Don't know of any ZMF owners who have tried it, would like someone with the Senn HD800's to try it as well.  HiFiMan and the LCD phones, too.

I would definitely not dismiss the 6N7, it is a spectacular driver in Glenn's amp.  It just likes lower mu power tubes.  Don't use it with 6BX/BL7's use it with 6080's and or 6AS7 and you will be surprised, regardless of cans owned.

Everyone's opinion is just that.  Trust your ears, people.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> Since @L0rdGwyn likes rare and expensive tubes, here ya go:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6j5g-tube-...-quad-349a-western-electric-army/254363152326



I have seen that seller's listings and they are crazy asking those prices.  I have a pair of Visseaux, not the smoked glass Neotron, but the internals are the same and I paid nowhere near that price!  Only $150 for a pair, also like how the listing says "war time" and yet there is a 1953 date code on the tubes 

The Visseaux are very nice tubes though.  Also have a pair in metal cans that can be gotten pretty cheap and sound the same as far as I can tell.  Same internally, again.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have seen that seller's listings and they are crazy asking those prices.  I have a pair of Visseaux, not the smoked glass Neotron, but the internals are the same and I paid nowhere near that price!  Only $150 for a pair, also like how the listing says "war time" and yet there is a 1953 date code on the tubes
> 
> The Visseaux are very nice tubes though.  Also have a pair in metal cans that can be gotten pretty cheap and sound the same as far as I can tell.  Same internally, again.



Indeed sir!  Insane prices!  Love the ones you have picked up!  Very very nice!!

Drool drool  drool


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> also like how the listing says "war time" and yet there is a 1953 date code on the tubes


Seller did not specify WHICH war... 
Maybe Korean war (ended in Jul 27, 1953)?


----------



## gibosi

A little bit of history.... One hundred years ago today, in 1919, the Radio Corporation of America was founded.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Seller did not specify WHICH war...
> Maybe Korean war (ended in Jul 27, 1953)?



True!  Isn't there a war somewhere, always?  I'm not sure they paid attention in history class.  I may be wrong, but I don't think many French-made vacuum tubes were being produced during WWII for obvious reasons.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 17, 2019)

gibosi said:


> A little bit of history.... One hundred years ago today, in 1919, the Radio Corporation of America was founded.



Happy Centennial Birthday, RCA!! 
I was in the Ace Hardware yesterday, and the lady said Saturday, Oct 19, 2019 would be 95 years in business for them.  I congratulated her for staying in business that long with all the dramatic changes we have been seeing in retail, lately.


----------



## DecentLevi

L0rdGwyn said:


> "Playing with triodes for decades taught me that the ones that could be used are not so numerous. For the indirect I would go to the 27 (76, 6C5, 6J5) family of tubes or the *Bi / REN904 and PTT100*, for the direct the RS242 and relatives, the 841 and some post tubes like Aa and PTT0. *All these tubes share excellent linearity, medium µ and exceptional sonic qualities.* Unfortunately most are expensive or too scarce for the average amateur I am and I decided to go for the 76/6J5."



From LordGwyn's quote above - I just checked and there are some very beautiful looking and cheap 6C5's like this RCA Victor 6C5. It has a similar silver ridged cathode or whatever it's called looking similar to another miniature tube UT recommended a few years back, which I however didn't happen to like. Although these look beautiful, I would probably however prefer to hear a little feedback on these before taking the leap. Assuming they are interchangeable for 6J5's


I also see a few 1940's 6C5GT's like this
 

There's also a few Bi / REN904 and PTT100, but it seems we don't know how they sound yet


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> It took me a while to realize that the same tube may sound different in different amps, even though some tubes sound great in many applications.
> Now I am starting to realize that different headphones used with the same amp may require a different tube complement to sound their best.
> Possibly this applies more to different manufacturers than different headphones from the same manufacturer.
> Any thoughts?


Oh that's something I noticed a good while back. It mostly depends on how tubes match with the headphone impedance (ohms), so how well a specific tube compliment as able to control the headhone driver. Further, some tube combos sound better for closed than open backs but not visa-versa. I don't know the technical reasons for it so I just go by which tube combo happens to gel well with a particular headphone and on the amp; and this preference can also change depending on the mastering of an album or music genre.

Is has nothing to do with brands.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Oh that's something I noticed a good while back. It mostly depends on how tubes match with the headphone impedance (ohms), so how well a specific tube compliment as able to control the headhone driver. Further, some tube combos sound better for closed than open backs but not visa-versa. I don't know the technical reasons for it so I just go by which tube combo happens to gel well with a particular headphone and on the amp; and this preference can also change depending on the mastering of an album or music genre.
> 
> Is has nothing to do with brands.



Everything is going to be totally different with a transformer coupled amp.  Different headphones don't affect the sound of
a tube like in a high impedance OTL as much.


----------



## Monsterzero

You can count me as a total fan of the 6J5s. Those three lead filled beauties arrived a few days ago,but the adapter just came in today.
Better air,much better separation,better upper mid/treble definition and oddly,harder slam than the VT231....and completely dead silent.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 17, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Better air,much better separation,better upper mid/treble definition and oddly,harder slam than the VT231....and completely dead silent.



Looks great D, glad it worked out, those Ken-Rads have been on my wish list, there are others available for sane prices, I might grab some but I already have a lot of 6J5s...

As I've said before, the same pattern holds (for me and my ears) with every 6SN7 to 6J5 apples-to-apples comparison I've done.  The 6J5 wins every time with better air, separation, staging.  Other tonal differences depend on the tubes in question.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> You can count me as a total fan of the 6J5s. Those three lead filled beauties arrived a few days ago,but the adapter just came in today.
> Better air,much better separation,better upper mid/treble definition and oddly,harder slam than the VT231....and completely dead silent.



Looks great MZ...which phones?   The beautiful Tung-Sol 12J5's I bought are quite incredible with the right 'phones, too!  As are the NU 12J5's.

I definitely dig the xJ5's as well.


----------



## attmci

Phantaminum said:


> They are gorgeous!


You sure? That guy is the Italian Bangbang.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Looks great D, glad it worked out, those Ken-Rads have been on my wish list, there are others available for sane prices, I might grab some but I already have a lot of 6J5s...
> 
> As I've said before, the same pattern holds (for me and my ears) with every 6SN7 to 6J5 apples-to-apples comparison I've done.  The 6J5 wins every time with better air, separation, staging.  Other tonal differences depend on the tubes in question.


 Thanks ! 
Dumb question is there a 6/12j5 equivalent to the TS BGRP,or the metal base Sylvania that UT raves about?



JazzVinyl said:


> Looks great MZ...which phones?   The beautiful Tung-Sol 12J5's I bought are quite incredible with the right 'phones, too!  As are the NU 12J5's.
> 
> I definitely dig the xJ5's as well.



For the last six-seven weeks I have only listened to the VC. Every other headphone is collecting cob webs.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 17, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Is has nothing to do with brands.



Really?  So it is just "closed" or "open" and the impedance?  So two different brands of the same style and impedance will sound the exactly the same in Glenn's OTL?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks !
> Dumb question is there a 6/12j5 equivalent to the TS BGRP,or the metal base Sylvania that UT raves about?



Oh there are, I'm glad you asked 

See these posts where I compare them to their 6SN7 cousins:

Sylvania: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1921#post-15134147
Tung-Sol: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1958#post-15152863

Other round plate, metal base Sylvania 6J5GT likely sound the same as the pairs I have.

The ST-shaped Tung-Sol 6J5G I have come up sometimes but are overall pretty uncommon.  The Tung-Sol 12J5 @JazzVinyl has have the same internal construction (except for a missing heat fin on top) and probably sound the same.  And they are dirt cheap:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-J...123600?hash=item51e5e1ae10:g:hfgAAOxyTyBSXaSh

Just use that same adapter and the 12V setting on the GOTL.

I have been trying to get this 6J5 hype train rolling for a while, I'm so glad people like them


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 17, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks !
> Dumb question is there a 6/12j5 equivalent to the TS BGRP,or the metal base Sylvania that UT raves about?



There appears to be a 6J5 equiv of the 6SN7W metal base,   



Monsterzero said:


> For the last six-seven weeks I have only listened to the VC. Every other headphone is collecting cob webs.



But everyone knows..."Open is better"    

.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Oh there are, I'm glad you asked
> 
> See these posts where I compare them to their 6SN7 cousins:
> 
> ...


Is there a 6J5 sounds like a GE 6SN7GT?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> Is there a 6J5 sounds like a GE 6SN7GT?



https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-6J5-Tube-2800/254332622506?hash=item3b3767d6aa:g:YioAAOSwsB5dVzIg
https://www.ebay.com/itm/General-El...915819?hash=item5d92af3a6b:g:MbAAAOSwTfNcx38l


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks !
> Dumb question is there a 6/12j5 equivalent to the TS BGRP,or the metal base Sylvania that UT raves about?
> 
> 
> ...



Though I like the Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp in WA22, the Tung Sol 12SL7GT bgrp in GOTL is not my top fav because it’s not as transparent as the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base.

Glenn is correct in saying that tubes in a transformer coupled amp sounds better than in an OTL amp because it’s more vivid and clear.

In the GOTL, my top 4 drivers are:-
Mullard ECC35 
Ecc33
GEC b36
Sylvania 6sn7w metal base

These are the drivers I rave about in GOTL.

In Studio Six and WA22, I’m still discovering what I like.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-6J5-Tube-2800/254332622506?hash=item3b3767d6aa:g:YioAAOSwsB5dVzIg
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/General-El...915819?hash=item5d92af3a6b:g:MbAAAOSwTfNcx38l


Thanks for the info. 

I passed it to 



 
*bcowen*


----------



## L0rdGwyn

DecentLevi said:


> From LordGwyn's quote above - I just checked and there are some very beautiful looking and cheap 6C5's like this RCA Victor 6C5. It has a similar silver ridged cathode or whatever it's called looking similar to another miniature tube UT recommended a few years back, which I however didn't happen to like. Although these look beautiful, I would probably however prefer to hear a little feedback on these before taking the leap. Assuming they are interchangeable for 6J5's



Hey DL - they are similar enough in specification that they can be used interchangeably with 6J5s.  The grid-like thing inside is internal shielding to keep out interference, intended to be grounded via pin 1.  The RCAs likely sound similar in tone to a RCA 6SN7GT/VT-231, but with improved staging and separation, just an educated guess.


----------



## UntilThen

The point I’m trying to make is the same Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp (which is equivalent to TS BGRP) sounds much clearer and vivid in Studio Six and WA22 than in GOTL - of course some parameters are different such as the 2 transformer coupled amps uses tube rectifiers) but ultimately I believe the clearer and more vivid is due to the fact the other 2 amps are transformer coupled.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Glenn is correct in saying that tubes in a transformer coupled amp sounds better than in an OTL amp because it’s more vivid and clear.



Can you link to where he said that, please?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> So that's where you've been. Cleaning pins and tube rolling ! Wabbit
> 
> As usual, outstanding picture and wonderful tubes. You've got class there mate with those tubes and headphones..... and where's that picture of the priceless, vintage Sansui AU-7700 that I sold you?



it's in the background of the shot with the NU 6SN7 tube


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 17, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Really?  So it is just "closed" or "open" and the impedance?  So two different brands of the same style and impedance will sound the exactly the same in Glenn's OTL?


That's a bit over-generalizing. What I was saying generally was that specs / materials of the equipment is what makes synergy happen rather than brands of the equipment. Specifically what I was saying on the better part of my post you omitted was that I hold to the opinion that a headphone's synergy with tubes of an OTL tube amp has more to do with the headphone impedance in relation to the specifications (and class) of the used, and results can vary depending on if it's open or closed, rather than the brand of the headphone or other gear. We do all agree that tubes affect headphone pairings with OTL amps, and one user said it can even vary within the same brand.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Decided to try a triple driver set up for fun. Have read that the C3g is very transparent.. I have a pair of Siemens and Telefunken/Siemens, as well as a pair of the Lorenz C3g. Picked the Lorenz set to pair with a Melz 5 hole metal base 6sn7. 

HD6xx isn't one of my fav headphones, but it actually sounds good now...


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> That's a bit over-generalizing. What I was saying generally was that specs / materials of the equipment is what makes synergy happen rather than brands of the equipment. Specifically what I was saying on the better part of my post you omitted was that I hold to the opinion that a headphone's syngery with tubes of an OTL tube amp has more to do with the headphone impedance in relation to the specifications of the used, and results can vary depending on if it's open or closed, rather than the brand of the headphone or other gear. We do all agree that tubes affect headphone pairings with OTL amps, and one user said it can even vary within the same brand.


Hi DL,
Personally I have not found any way of predicting how any headphone/tube combination will sound - by me it is all trial and error. And from the very limited experience I have, there is a possibility that certain brands exhibit similar characteristics with similar type headphones of that brand ("house sound").


----------



## DecentLevi

Yeah, trial and error is the way I've always fond the best pairings between specific headphone / tube combos; 'by ear' which I tried to say in the original reply. It's almost like a symbiotic relationship between the two in order to get synergy.
And that's interesting as pointed out by Glenn that tubes don't impact synergy with headphones as much on OTC amps as with OTL because of the final transfo. impacting the end result. Makes me wonder if I don't have to chase tubes as much if they may not impact the sound as much with an OTC amp. Anyway I'll order at least a few more pairs then see after I get mine.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UsoppNoKami said:


> Decided to try a triple driver set up for fun. Have read that the C3g is very transparent.. I have a pair of Siemens and Telefunken/Siemens, as well as a pair of the Lorenz C3g. Picked the Lorenz set to pair with a Melz 5 hole metal base 6sn7.
> 
> HD6xx isn't one of my fav headphones, but it actually sounds good now...



Right-o Usopp, agree!  Sennheisers love the driver triplet.  EL32 and EL11 also enhance in this way.  Appreciate your giving it a whirl.

Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> it's in the background of the shot with the NU 6SN7 tube



I see it now.  I have also decided to get the cheapest DAC I can find for my home in Sydney for when I go home for visit like this weekend. So I look at the local classified and the cheapest DAC is $100 for a Topping 10 DAC..... can't complain much at that price. So that's what I'm getting tmr.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> ...Topping 10 DAC......



I just threw up into my mouth a little bit...☠


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> I see it now.  I have also decided to get the cheapest DAC I can find for my home in Sydney for when I go home for visit like this weekend. So I look at the local classified and the cheapest DAC is $100 for a Topping 10 DAC..... can't complain much at that price. So that's what I'm getting tmr.





TonyNewman said:


> I just threw up into my mouth a little bit...☠



Give the guy a break!  After buying 3 amps, he has no money left for a DAC...


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I see it now.  I have also decided to get the cheapest DAC I can find for my home in Sydney for when I go home for visit like this weekend. So I look at the local classified and the cheapest DAC is $100 for a Topping 10 DAC..... can't complain much at that price. So that's what I'm getting tmr.





UntilThen said:


> I see it now.  I have also decided to get the cheapest DAC I can find for my home in Sydney for when I go home for visit like this weekend. So I look at the local classified and the cheapest DAC is $100 for a Topping 10 DAC..... can't complain much at that price. So that's what I'm getting tmr.


Folks, 
You should know by now that UT likes to make practical jokes - I bet you all fell for it, hook, line and sinker!


----------



## TonyNewman

mordy said:


> Folks,
> You should know by now that UT likes to make practical jokes - I bet you all fell for it, hook, line and sinker!



I got the joke - hence my reply.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

TonyNewman said:


> I just threw up into my mouth a little bit...☠



But but but..... SINAD!!!! 

AudioGD R2R lover btw XD


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> I just threw up into my mouth a little bit...☠



LOL I traveled 100 kms to Goulburn for my McDonalds and you really crack me up.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Folks,
> You should know by now that UT likes to make practical jokes - I bet you all fell for it, hook, line and sinker!



The funniest part is it’s not a joke. The last trip home I have nothing to listen with so I use my wife’s Sennheiser Momentum IEM driven by Bose Companion 5 !!!!

So this trip I unplug the WA22 because it’s at the top of the rack and easy to take along. Pack my Verite into the seahorse case and jump into my CRV and I’m off !!!

2 days back in Sydney and I come home every few weeks. So I guess my ears can withstand the Topping 10 onslaught for the odd occasions back home. 

Thinking of buying a motor cross bike to ride with my friends in the bush so some compromises will have to be made with the 2nd DAC !

When I’m done with the Topping I will trade it with Monster for his Lamprizator.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> You can count me as a total fan of the 6J5s. Those three lead filled beauties arrived a few days ago,but the adapter just came in today.
> Better air,much better separation,better upper mid/treble definition and oddly,harder slam than the VT231....and completely dead silent.



You want air try and get some GEC  L63  shouldered smoke glass these are the airest drivers I have.
And use nothing else at this point.  But planing on getting some metal 6J5s for $4 each and see how they sound.


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Oct 18, 2019)

I just found my fav combo for my Verite. Haven't tried EL type tubes nor do I have adaptors or any EL tubes, so with the C3g and other tubes that I own -




Brimar tall bottle black glass 6sn7
2x Lorenz C3g
2x TS 6BX7GT
4x Sylvania 6BX7GT
WE422A

Detail, body, smoothness... Lovely sound that the amp is feeding my Verite this evening. Got here by way of taking out the Melz 5-hole tube and trying Ken Rad VT231... Bad combo with the C3g lol.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> You want air try and get some GEC  L63  shouldered smoke glass these are the airest drivers I have.
> And use nothing else at this point.  But planing on getting some metal 6J5s for $4 each and see how they sound.



These and the Mullard ECC32 are my most used drivers.  I rotate in some of the other great 6J5s, but the GEC are so well-rounded and effortless, they have spent the most time in my amp so far.  Going to get back in touch with my Fivre 6C5G when my adapter gets back today.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I have wazzupi's Sylvania 6SN7W metal base that I would like to sell.  There is a crack in the base and it does have some noise at baseline, a hum that is dependent on the gain of the output tubes.  With 6AS7G or 6080, it is barely audible with no music playing.  With 6BX7 or other higher gain output tubes, it is more clearly audible with no music playing, you may be able to hear it when very quiet music plays with high gain tubes, like classical.  Any music of moderate volume, it cannot be heard.

If anyone wants it, send me an offer, will let it go for a good price since it is a little noisy.  It tests very well though, 110% emission for both sections, no shorts.  Otherwise, it goes to the classifieds, then eBay!  Figured I'd ask here first


----------



## UntilThen

That’s rather strange K. My Sylvania 6sn7w metal base is the quietest of all my drivers with any power tubes including the sextet 6bx7 or 6bl7.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 18, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> That’s rather strange K. My Sylvania 6sn7w metal base is the quietest of all my drivers with any power tubes including the sextet 6bx7 or 6bl7.



Yes, I have owned four others that are whisper quiet, this one is a little excited.  Still sounds fantastic, just a wee bit of noise.  Figure someone might overlook it to try this tube for a major discount  sections are perfectly balanced too.  If someone uses 6AS7G or 6080 primarily, it is basically a non-issue.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Sylvania 6SN7 family photo.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UsoppNoKami said:


> I just found my fav combo for my Verite. Haven't tried EL type tubes nor do I have adaptors or any EL tubes, so with the C3g and other tubes that I own -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Excellent info and report, Usopp!   Now we have a Verite that likes Driver Triplet!  Appreciate!

Cheers!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 18, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> You want air try and get some GEC  L63  shouldered smoke glass these are the airest drivers I have.
> And use nothing else at this point.  But planing on getting some metal 6J5s for $4 each and see how they sound.



Will be interesting to see how the $4 metal tube compares to your GEC!
I have an NOS pair of RCA 12J5's inbound from Stan for his $4 ea...


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, I have owned four others that are whisper quiet, this one is a little excited.  Still sounds fantastic, just a wee bit of noise.  Figure someone might overlook it to try this tube for a major discount  sections are perfectly balanced too.  If someone uses 6AS7G or 6080 primarily, it is basically a non-issue.



Tried Mordy's "Tube Restoration" technique?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> Tried Mordy's "Tube Restoration" technique?



Hmmmmmm.  I have not, but it worked wonders for me on my Fivre 6N7G...to the garage I go!

Thanks JV, should have thought of giving it a try.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hmmmmmm.  I have not, but it worked wonders for me on my Fivre 6N7G...to the garage I go!
> 
> Thanks JV, should have thought of giving it a try.



I sent a noisy one to Mordy, and son of a gun, if he didn't fix it!!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> I sent a noisy one to Mordy, and son of a gun, if he didn't fix it!!!



Well I heated the pins 30 seconds each with a soldering iron, hum still there but further diminished.  With 6AS7s, it is nearly imperceptible, you have to _try_ to hear it, quieter now with 6BX7, so worth it I think!

My offer stands.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 18, 2019)

I was testing the Sylvania 6SN7W metal base for noise during quiet music with 6BX7, and got lost in a masterwork of classical music.  Just as I was getting started, the mail arrived and my 6J5 adapter returned to me!  What timing, now I can listen with the National Union 12J5.  Because my American pride is at an all time high, I decided to go "Full America" with some RCA 6BX7GT output tubes.

Listening now to Dimitri Shostakovich - String Quartet No. 8 in C Minor by the Borodin String Quartet in 1963, a very well known work.  Anyone who thinks classical is "boring" ought to give this a listen.  I have a really nice London pressing on vinyl as well


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> You want air try and get some GEC  L63  shouldered smoke glass these are the airest drivers I have.
> And use nothing else at this point.  But planing on getting some metal 6J5s for $4 each and see how they sound.



Yep. I have the GEC L63s in my saved searches,but the "good ones" arent cheap.

I was talking with Zach last night and he'd like to give the 6j5/l63s a shot. @L0rdGwyn perhaps drop him a PM? He seemed a bit overwhelmed with all the results he saw on eBay.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well I heated the pins 30 seconds each with a soldering iron, hum still there but further diminished.  With 6AS7s, it is nearly imperceptible, you have to _try_ to hear it, quieter now with 6BX7, so worth it I think!
> 
> My offer stands.



Definitely works. Had a guy selling me a pair of GEC 6AS7s because of the noise they made (static and one side had a hum). Put the soldering iron each pin for 30 seconds and voila! Noise gone. Not bad for two almost NOS GECs for $200.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Yep. I have the GEC L63s in my saved searches,but the "good ones" arent cheap.
> 
> I was talking with Zach last night and he'd like to give the 6j5/l63s a shot. @L0rdGwyn perhaps drop him a PM? He seemed a bit overwhelmed with all the results he saw on eBay.



Sure thing, I'll shoot him a PM.  Yeah, lots of options and the most sought after European ones are pricey.  But as usual with GEC/MOV, you get what you pay for, they are very good.  I am sure prices will go up further as demand increases :/


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Definitely works. Had a guy selling me a pair of GEC 6AS7s because of the noise they made (static and one side had a hum). Put the soldering iron each pin for 30 seconds and voila! Noise gone. Not bad for two almost NOS GECs for $200.


 What temp are you guys using to heat up the pins? Bottom of the pins? side of the pins? All the pins? Inquiring minds would like to know.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 18, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I was testing the Sylvania 6SN7W metal base for noise during quiet music with 6BX7, and got lost in a masterwork of classical music.  Just as I was getting started, the mail arrived and my 6J5 adapter returned to me!  What timing, now I can listen with the National Union 12J5.  Because my American pride is at an all time high, I decided to go "Full America" with some RCA 6BX7GT output tubes.
> 
> Listening now to Dimitri Shostakovich - String Quartet No. 8 in C Minor by the Borodin String Quartet in 1963, a very well known work.  Anyone who thinks classical is "boring" ought to give this a listen.  I have a really nice London pressing on vinyl as well



Looks great, LG!!

How are the NU 12J5 for you?


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> What temp are you guys using to heat up the pins? Bottom of the pins? side of the pins? All the pins? Inquiring minds would like to know.



I’ll add the soldering iron make and model this evening and what temps I’m using.

For the method - I hold the tube upright with the pins facing down, move the soldering iron on the pins (I put the iron on the side of the pin that’s easily accessible) up and down each second for about 30 - 40 seconds and go all the way around. Never put the soldering iron at the bottom of the pin since that does contain solder and you don’t want to remove it. 

I’ve got maybe 75% of the tubes fixed this way or with a second go around.


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 18, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sure thing, I'll shoot him a PM.  Yeah, lots of options and the most sought after European ones are pricey.  But as usual with GEC/MOV, you get what you pay for, they are very good.  I am sure prices will go up further as demand increases :/



I tried to buy a quad of the L63 Metal Base MOVs and those puppies went for $500+. I just didn’t have it in me to keep bidding. The singles I’ve see go for $250 - $300 easily. :’(


----------



## JazzVinyl

UsoppNoKami said:


> I just found my fav combo for my Verite. Haven't tried EL type tubes nor do I have adaptors or any EL tubes, so with the C3g and other tubes that I own -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hello Usopp...

I am finding the RCA 1633 also pairs well with C3g in D-3 mode (Driver Triplet)


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 18, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> I tried to buy a quad of the L63 Metal Base MOVs and those puppies went for $500+. I just didn’t have it in me to keep bidding. The singles I’ve see go for $250 - $300 easily. :’(



Oof, don't think I would be willing to pay that price.  I'd probably stick to the earlier ST-shaped gray glass version, I can't imagine the sound difference is significant.  Metal bases are pretty though lol tube hunters love them, myself included  throw metal base on the end of any tube sale and multiply the price by 2.

Actually I know what I'd do with that money...


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> But planing on getting some metal 6J5s for $4 each and see how they sound.


Glenn - did you get anyone from ESRC to respond?!  Tried e-mail them several days ago, and no response... I wanted to try el-cheapo 6J5s as well


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Oof, don't think I would be willing to pay that price.  I'd probably stick to the earlier ST-shaped gray glass version, I can't imagine the sound difference is significant.  Metal bases are pretty though lol tube hunters love them, myself included  throw metal base on the end of any tube sale and multiply the price by 2.



Correct me if I’m wrong but there’s a difference right or are they the same? The B65 is different in sound compared to the ECC32/33? To correct myself as well I meant Osram instead of MOV.

Here’s the listing for the tubes. Love the way the way they look.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Because *my American pride* is at an all time high, I decided to go "Full America" with some RCA 6BX7GT output tubes.
> 
> *Listening now to Dimitri Shostakovich* - String Quartet No. 8 in C Minor by the Borodin String Quartet in 1963, a very well known work. Anyone who thinks classical is "boring" ought to give this a listen.


Was laughing out loud when I read about your American pride and the Russian composer, all in one breathe...


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 18, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong but there’s a difference right or are they the same? The B65 is different in sound compared to the ECC32/33? To correct myself as well I meant Osram instead of MOV.
> 
> Here’s the listing for the tubes. Love the way the way they look.



Hard to say, I have not read any sound impressions of the metal base version.  Wish I could see the plates, from what I can see support construction is similar, but my ST shaped have a foil getter whereas the straight metal base have a inverted cup getter.  The plate construction of the gray glass ST shaped is different from the later straight glass.  ST shaped have a ladder style plate, whereas the clear straight glass have a sort of flattened T-plate.

Here is the best photo I can take of the internals of the gray glass ST shaped:


Here are pictures of the metal base and straight clear glass, unfortunately cannot see the plates of the metal base:
 

Here is a current listing for the metal base, get out your wallet!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-pair-N...61f07f4b5:g:HVkAAOSwmpJc~yAg&autorefresh=true

Edit: based on other photos I am looking at, I suspect the metal base have the same ladder plates as the ST shaped.

Here is a Marconi branded, smoked, straight glass with inverted cup getter, identical to the metal base except for it has a black base.  The top is shown, which does not show the protruding plates of the clear glass and is very similar in construction to the top mica layout of the ST shaped, so more likely ladder plate.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 18, 2019)

So, in conclusion  the metal base likely sound very similar to the gray glass ST shaped since the internal construction is nearly the same, but cannot confirm absolutely.



Zachik said:


> Was laughing out loud when I read about your American pride and the Russian composer, all in one breathe...



 too on-the-nose?  I will say no more.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, I have owned four others that are whisper quiet, this one is a little excited.  Still sounds fantastic, just a wee bit of noise.  Figure someone might overlook it to try this tube for a major discount  sections are perfectly balanced too.  If someone uses 6AS7G or 6080 primarily, it is basically a non-issue.



Mordy will be able to make it quiet. I gave him a pair of Sylvania 6sn7w black base short tubes that hums and he make it Humphrey.


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> The B65 is different in sound compared to the ECC32/33?



Well I can tell you my GEC B36 sounds different from my Haltron ECC33. 

My single GEC B36 in original GEC box came from Stavros and it was brand new unused when I had it. The Haltron ECC33 was also brand new won at an auction from an Aussie seller sometime. I cannot verify if a B36 and B65 sound the same because I don't have a B65. Leftside can but I doubt he wants to use his pair of brand new GEC B65.

Look at this Osram B65 - oozes class. Box is as new condition and rare  
https://www.ebay.com/itm/B65-OSRAM-...340867?hash=item3d95822ac3:g:YCMAAOSwADVdp-Fk


----------



## Phantaminum

UntilThen said:


> Well I can tell you my GEC B36 sounds different from my Haltron ECC33.
> 
> My single GEC B36 in original GEC box came from Stavros and it was brand new unused when I had it. The Haltron ECC33 was also brand new won at an auction from an Aussie seller sometime. I cannot verify if a B36 and B65 sound the same because I don't have a B65. Leftside can but I doubt he wants to use his pair of brand new GEC B65.
> 
> ...



The top of that Osram looks to have the same umbrella spoke as the non-smoked version. I will say that I found the B36 to have extended treble compared to the ECC33/35s but (if memory serves me right) a little bottom end heavy. 

Thanks for the info UT.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Zachik said:


> Glenn - did you get anyone from ESRC to respond?!  Tried e-mail them several days ago, and no response... I wanted to try el-cheapo 6J5s as well



Call and leave a voice mail, Stan will call you back.

He told me the metal 6J5 were mixed brands.  The RCA 12J5 he has were 'new in orig box' and branded "Western Electronics" $4.00 ea, same as seen here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-12J5GT...-Audio-Radio-Tubes-4-PC-8-OFFERS/333112580100


----------



## UntilThen

Phantaminum said:


> The top of that Osram looks to have the same umbrella spoke as the non-smoked version. I will say that I found the B36 to have extended treble compared to the ECC33/35s but (if memory serves me right) a little bottom end heavy.
> 
> Thanks for the info UT.



I was looking to buy one WE 422a and I saw a listing with 8 !!!  We can share to buy these and each have 4. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Set-o...290037?hash=item1effd6dc35:g:rOkAAOSwwKZdRLiC


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Well I can tell you my GEC B36 sounds different from my Haltron ECC33.
> 
> My single GEC B36 in original GEC box came from Stavros and it was brand new unused when I had it. The Haltron ECC33 was also brand new won at an auction from an Aussie seller sometime. I cannot verify if a B36 and B65 sound the same because I don't have a B65. Leftside can but I doubt he wants to use his pair of brand new GEC B65.
> 
> ...


Hi UT,
The Osram B65 is marked 20 Shilling AU (?). Out of curiosity, what would this 1951 price correspond to in $USD today? I am not able to find this out....


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> So, in conclusion  the metal base likely sound very similar to the gray glass ST shaped since the internal construction is nearly the same, but cannot confirm absolutely.



So, what did you think of the NU 12J5's, LG?


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is a current listing for the metal base, get out your wallet!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-pair-N...61f07f4b5:g:HVkAAOSwmpJc~yAg&autorefresh=true


Only $40 / month for 12 months...


----------



## Zachik

JazzVinyl said:


> Call and leave a voice mail, Stan will call you back.
> 
> He told me the metal 6J5 were mixed brands.  The RCA 12J5 he has were 'new in orig box' and branded "Western Electronics" $4.00 ea, same as seen here:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-12J5GT...-Audio-Radio-Tubes-4-PC-8-OFFERS/333112580100


Thanks!  Will do.


----------



## gibosi

Phantaminum said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong but there’s a difference right or are they the same? The B65 is different in sound compared to the ECC32/33? To correct myself as well I meant Osram instead of MOV.
> 
> Here’s the listing for the tubes. Love the way the way they look.



Whether labeled Osram, Marconi or GEC, they were all manufactured in the Hammersmith factory (Z). And MOV = Marconi-Osram Valve Company.

The B65 was manufactured in Hammersmith. The ECC32/33 were manufactered by Mullard, the earliest ones in their Blackburn factory.

So yes the B65 and ECC32/33 definitely sound different:  Different companies, different factories, different sound.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 18, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> I tried to buy a quad of the L63 Metal Base MOVs and those puppies went for $500+. I just didn’t have it in me to keep bidding. The singles I’ve see go for $250 - $300 easily. :’(




That is way to much....just look for a B36 metal base......12 volt version of B65

But if you feel you have to have L63...then
https://www.ebay.com/itm/L63-Osram-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 18, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> So, what did you think of the NU 12J5's, LG?



I need more time, JV!  Listening now  kept getting interrupted earlier, but early impressions are very good.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

BTW, just came across this - Yamamoto makes a UX4-B4 combination socket 

That's right, you could use 5V UX4 rectifiers, then attach some series resistors to drop the voltage to 4V and use European rectifiers IN THE SAME SOCKET.

This changes everything, more research needs to be done...


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> BTW, just came across this - Yamamoto makes a UX4-B4 combination socket
> 
> That's right, you could use 5V UX4 rectifiers, then attach some series resistors to drop the voltage to 4V and use European rectifiers IN THE SAME SOCKET.
> 
> This changes everything, more research needs to be done...




Very nice....good stuff.

I am going to get all yamamoto sockets in my amp


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Whether labeled Osram, Marconi or GEC, they were all manufactured in the Hammersmith factory (Z). And MOV = Marconi-Osram Valve Company.
> 
> The B65 was manufactured in Hammersmith. The ECC32/33 were manufactered by Mullard, the earliest ones in their Blackburn factory.
> 
> So yes the B65 and ECC32/33 definitely sound different:  Different companies, different factories, different sound.


Different prices?


----------



## leftside

I have the Osram metal base L63 - but most certainly didn't pay the current prices you see on eBay. That quad from messinacat were way over-priced - especially if you check out the test results of the tubes. Dodgy seller imo, so you dodged a bullet if you didn't get them.

I haven't been able to try the Osram metal base L63 because with the WA22 I need 4 of them. I will be able to try with The Saint though, and also my custom OTL amp when I receive them, and then I can do a comparison of all the above mentioned by the good lord. The MWT straight glass with black base are really nice. I think they swapped from inverted tray getter to D getter sometime around 1956, but I'd have to check. 

Did I mention this guy was dodgy? 1945? "Oh sorry - typo when I created the listing"
http://vpiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9534&hilit=dual+pivot


----------



## leftside (Oct 18, 2019)

I'll also be able to compare B65 vs B36. One of the main reasons I became interested in the 12v switch was purely to be able to use the B36.

I also want to retry all the different ECC32 versions, foil, inverted tray, D getter, etc, but haven't noticed too much difference in the WA22. Same with ECC33 and ECC35.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> I'll also be able to compare B65 vs B36. One of the main reasons I became interested in the 12v switch was purely to be able to use the B36.
> 
> I also want to retry all the different ECC32 versions, foil, inverted tray, D getter, etc, but haven't noticed too much difference in the WA22.


Im looking forward to your thoughts on this comparison.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Whether labeled Osram, Marconi or GEC, they were all manufactured in the Hammersmith factory (Z). And MOV = Marconi-Osram Valve Company.
> 
> The B65 was manufactured in Hammersmith. The ECC32/33 were manufactered by Mullard, the earliest ones in their Blackburn factory.
> 
> So yes the B65 and ECC32/33 definitely sound different:  Different companies, different factories, different sound.


A friend of mine who is almost as knowledgeable as you regarding tubes says that the early Mullard and early GEC tubes obtained the coveted black plates from the same source, and this is what makes the early Mullards (pre 1956ish) so desirable. He also says the early Mullards sound similar to the GEC tubes because of this, and the latter ones have more of the traditional "warmer Mullard sound", but I can't find any links to verify this information.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> I'll also be able to compare B65 vs B36. One of the main reasons I became interested in the 12v switch was purely to be able to use the B36.
> 
> I also want to retry all the different ECC32 versions, foil, inverted tray, D getter, etc, but haven't noticed too much difference in the WA22. Same with ECC33 and ECC35.



Regarding the B65 vs B36, if the only difference is the heater voltage, they will certainly sound the same. But if they were manufactured at different times with different construction then they may sound different.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Regarding the B65 vs B36, if the only difference is the heater voltage, they will certainly sound the same. But if they were manufactured at different times with different construction then they may sound different.


Yes of course. And how much usage they might have endured.


----------



## Phantaminum

whirlwind said:


> That is way to much....just look for a B36 metal base......12 volt version of B65
> 
> But if you feel you have to have L63...then
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/L63-Osram-CV1932-6J5G-metal-base-pair-valves-tubes-suit-PX4-PX25-amplifiers/303319069206?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649



I’d love to but my amp only takes B65s and 6SN7s. 

I can see everyone else: “Laughs in GlennOTL”


----------



## JazzVinyl

Phantaminum said:


> I’d love to but my amp only takes B65s and 6SN7s.
> 
> I can see everyone else: “Laughs in GlennOTL”



External heating is a piece of cake...hint hint hint...


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> BTW, just came across this - Yamamoto makes a UX4-B4 combination socket
> 
> That's right, you could use 5V UX4 rectifiers, then attach some series resistors to drop the voltage to 4V and use European rectifiers IN THE SAME SOCKET.
> 
> This changes everything, more research needs to be done...



Socket porn !


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> The Osram B65 is marked 20 Shilling AU (?). Out of curiosity, what would this 1951 price correspond to in $USD today? I am not able to find this out....



Shilling is priceless now.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Im looking forward to your thoughts on this comparison.



My thoughts on this is this. Tamarama Beach.

It’s beach day !


----------



## UntilThen

For that perfect tan !


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> A friend of mine who is almost as knowledgeable as you regarding tubes says that the early Mullard and early GEC tubes obtained the coveted black plates from the same source, and this is what makes the early Mullards (pre 1956ish) so desirable. He also says the early Mullards sound similar to the GEC tubes because of this, and the latter ones have more of the traditional "warmer Mullard sound", but I can't find any links to verify this information.



I have never heard anything about a common source of "coveted black plates" for Mullard and GEC tubes. And my inclination is to doubt this. Black plates were the norm in the US, Britain and Europe, pretty much everywhere, into the early 1950's for their heat dissipation properties.  They certainly weren't rare.


----------



## UntilThen

Aw summer summer I’m tubeless now.  Collected Topping 10 - hope Tony doesn’t choke on his food again lol. Left it in the car and stroll down the beach !


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Collected Topping 10 - hope Tony doesn’t choke on his food again lol. Left it in the car and stroll down the beach !


Maybe in your sub-conscious you're hoping someone would break into your car and steal it... 
Oh... wait... did you even lock your car doors?!


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Maybe in your sub-conscious you're hoping someone would break into your car and steal it...
> Oh... wait... did you even lock your car doors?!



I’m trying to assemble a setup consisting of items that cost no more than $100 each. So $100 for Topping 10. Need to find an open headphone for $100 and a headphone tube amp for $100. 

Most of my tubes cost more than the $100 Topping D10 !


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> So, what did you think of the NU 12J5's, LG?



Have had a few hours with these now, these are some nice tubes!  Slightly warm to my ears, nice punch and fun.  I did a little back and forth with the National Union 6SN7GT black glass, the 12J5s win hands down on on technicalities, wider stage, better air and separation.  Thanks for the recommendation, JV


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> I have never heard anything about a common source of "coveted black plates" for Mullard and GEC tubes. And my inclination is to doubt this. Black plates were the norm in the US, Britain and Europe, pretty much everywhere, into the early 1950's for their heat dissipation properties.  They certainly weren't rare.


I think the point he's trying to make is that not all black plates were sourced from the same location/had the same properties, but Iike I said I don't have any evidence to back this up. But, the same guy has been very helpful in educating me with all the different tube types, getters, materials used, year of manufacture, etc, especially when it comes to Mullard and GEC tubes and helping me identify which ones to go for on eBay and which ones to avoid.


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Have had a few hours with these now, these are some nice tubes!  Slightly warm to my ears, nice punch and fun.  I did a little back and forth with the National Union 6SN7GT black glass, the 12J5s win hands down on on technicalities, wider stage, better air and separation.  Thanks for the recommendation, JV



The NU black glass and earlier gray glass 6SN7GT sound different. And the round plate 6F8G sounds different than either of the 6SN7GTs. I wonder which of these the 12J5 is most similar too....


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> The NU black glass and earlier gray glass 6SN7GT sound different. And the round plate 6F8G sounds different than either of the 6SN7GTs. I wonder which of these the 12J5 is most similar too....



The Tung Sol 6F8G black glass round plates have not left my WA22 for more than a week. I wanted to buy a NOS pair from Stavros but he found the Art branded 6F8G sold by an Aussie seller on eBay for me. Said that is the real stuff and much cheaper than what he can sell for a NOS pair. For which I’m grateful for his help.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> The NU black glass and earlier gray glass 6SN7GT sound different. And the round plate 6F8G sounds different than either of the 6SN7GTs. I wonder which of these the 12J5 is most similar too....



I do have the black glass 6SN7GT, the round plate 6F8G, and now the 12J5.  Both the black glass 6SN7GT and the 12J5 have ladder style plates, but they are not identical in design.  I did think they sounded pretty similar though, tonally.  I'll have to get the 6F8G in the mix!  I haven't listened to it in a while.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Need to find an open headphone for $100


I am selling an open headphone for just over $100, but shipping to this place you call "home" would kill it...


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> ...Collected Topping 10 - hope Tony doesn’t choke on his food again lol. ...


----------



## chrisdrop

*The eagle has (finally!) landed
*
After much ado about customs n' such, my new friend has arrived. 

Thanks @2359glenn.

Swimming noodles never looked so good...
* 
*
Hey good lookin'... 
*
*
.. I think you will fit here
*
*
That works.
*
*
 Tubes warm, sacrificial headphones not dead... and away we go.
**

I'm going to need a bigger table.


----------



## UntilThen

I can't believe it's been almost 2 years since I had GOTL and I can imagine your excitement right now @chrisdrop. Enjoy !


----------



## whirlwind

Congrats on you new amp, it looks great .

Please get that  on a bigger surface


----------



## GDuss

Congrats Chris.  With the recent arrival of your VC's, and now the GOTL, I predict you will be getting nothing done for weeks (except for listening to great sounding music of course ).  I'm also interested to see how much self-control you have with not buying tubes.  I made an attempt to be a responsible tube buyer when the GOTL showed up, but that all went out the window in about a week.


----------



## whirlwind

GDuss said:


> Congrats Chris.  With the recent arrival of your VC's, and now the GOTL, I predict you will be getting nothing done for weeks (except for listening to great sounding music of course ).  I'm also interested to see how much self-control you have with not buying tubes.  I made an attempt to be a responsible tube buyer when the GOTL showed up, but that all went out the window in about a week.




Not many make it out of this thread without many more tubes and a much thinner wallet


----------



## chrisdrop

GDuss said:


> how much self-control you have with not buying tubes



I'll give you a hint...



Spoiler: self control...



 

*Less than zero apparently. *Some few were via Euforia, others ... GOTL anticipatory !

Whist a humble beginning, > 0.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> The Osram B65 is marked 20 Shilling AU (?). Out of curiosity, what would this 1951 price correspond to in $USD today? I am not able to find this out....


AUD 43.37 in 2018 money according to https://www.rba.gov.au/calculator/annualPreDecimal.html.


----------



## GDuss

whirlwind said:


> Not many make it out of this thread without many more tubes and a much thinner wallet






chrisdrop said:


> I'll give you a hint...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, that storage space you have there will definitely not be large enough .


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> I'll give you a hint...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Obviously no self control.


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> *The eagle has (finally!) landed
> *
> After much ado about customs n' such, my new friend has arrived.
> 
> ...



Big congrats Chris!!

Fantastic Amplifier, that you will love!!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 19, 2019)

Here is something for Joe @whirlwind to check out.  Comparison of EL84 and 6V6 in a guitar amp and how it affects the sound...


----------



## chrisdrop

_Little..table..too..weak..._
Moved to a more stable location. 

 
_Need to drill some holes to support cables..._


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Oct 19, 2019)

I last posted here saying I liked listening to my Verite on the GOTL with WE422A, 6x 6bx7 , 2x Lorenz C3g and a Brimar tall bottle black glass 6sn7 in a triple driver config. Did more SN7 rolling, and I reckon the very warm Brimar tube with rolled off highs complimented the transparent C3gs. Wouldn't put anything else in with that combo.

Moving on...

Gave the CV575 rectifier a go with TS 12sn7 and 6x 6bx7. Still only on Verite, didn't like it.




So I swapped out the TS driver for my ECC32.



The vocals felt more forward than I was used to with the ECC32, and certain things like Clapton's guitar sounded a bit different than what I had in mind.

Since I have spent most of the past 2 weeks with the WE422A rectifier, after a couple of hours of this combo I took the GEC out and plugged the WE back in.



For my gear, ears and taste, I have concluded that the WE422A has a better tonality, more realism on instruments and a nice balanced sound from bass to highs. The GEC U52/CV575 is probably better suited to drivers that are less lush than the Mullards, since they bring the mids more forward.

With Glenn's OTL amp design, a lot of tubes and combos sound good, I really love the cheap 6 pack power tubes and haven't been using my 5998, 421A and 6as7g tubes at all. But this WE rectifier is worth buying IMHO. Thanks @2359glenn for the recommendation early on, I had a long period of time to search for them


----------



## JazzVinyl

UsoppNoKami said:


> With Glenn's OTL amp design, a lot of tubes and combos sound good, I really love the cheap 6 pack power tubes and haven't been using my 5998, 421A and 6as7g tubes at all. But this WE rectifier is worth buying IMHO. Thanks @2359glenn for the recommendation early on, I had a long period of time to search for them



The six pack of 6BX or BL7's cannot be beat here either Usopp...every once in a while I try my other powers but does not take long to come "home" to the six pack.  Works so very well, sounds so good.

Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> I am selling an open headphone for just over $100, but shipping to this place you call "home" would kill it...



If that's a LCD-4 or Empyrean for just over a $100, I'll take it and gladly pay the postage.


----------



## UntilThen

chrisdrop said:


> I'll give you a hint...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's approximately the same amount of tubes I started with back in 2015 with the Darkvoice 336se.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> I really love the cheap 6 pack power tubes and haven't been using my 5998, 421A and 6as7g tubes at all.



That's what I said not too long ago but as a friend, I'm here to help and will relief you of your 5998,  WE 421A and GEC 6as7s.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> AUD 43.37 in 2018 money according to https://www.rba.gov.au/calculator/annualPreDecimal.html.



Hey O, AUD $43.37 can't even fill a full tank of petrol now !


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 19, 2019)

And now Tony this is the moment you've been waiting for.  I'll breakdown the cost of the setup for you:-

Woo Audio WA22 - AUD$1550.
ZMF Verite Open - AUD$3660.
Topping D10 DAC - AUD$100.
Forza Audioworks Clarie Hybrid headphone cable - AUD$275.
GEC U52 - AUD$400
Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp - AUD$300.
Bendix 6080wb - AUD$280.

Total - AUD $6565.

Value product of the century - Topping D10 at $100 !!!  It's even got digital readout of the file's sample rate. Something my Yggdrasil at AUD $3850 can't do.


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> And now Tony this is the moment you've been waiting for.  I'll breakdown the cost of the setup for you:-
> 
> Woo Audio WA22 - AUD$1550.
> ZMF Verite Open - AUD$3660.
> ...


----------



## Monsterzero

chrisdrop said:


> *The eagle has (finally!) landed
> *
> After much ado about customs n' such, my new friend has arrived.
> 
> ...


Congrats dude!


----------



## 2359glenn

TonyNewman said:


>



Boy you are hard on UT about that DAC


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Boy you are hard on UT about that DAC



It's all about tough love


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Boy you are hard on UT about that DAC



It's OK ! I am having a good laugh myself. 

Half a day more in Sydney then I go back to Canberra again, leaving poor Topping D10 behind.....  I'll sample it when I come back again.

Glenn, I'm having another thought again about Berlin. Whether to use EL12 spez solely as power tubes or to be able to use EL12, EL12N and EL12 spez as power tubes....... and maybe to have 4 power sockets for those tubes to be use in mixture.... e.g 2 x EL12 spez and 2 x EL12N or 2 x EL12. There will be a compromise in this - may have to run at 250v for the quad EL12 tubes.

Thoughts?


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> It's all about tough love



I'm coming to New Zealand to steal your Metrum Pavane level 3 !!!


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> I'm coming to New Zealand to steal your Metrum Pavane level 3 !!!



 You can have my Topping D2. I thought I had thrown it away, but I still have it. This was my first ever headphone DAC/amp. Then I got a HD600 and a WA6 and a Simaudio 100D DAC, and things snowballed from there. The D2 is a truly awful sounding piece of kit. I can only guess at how excremental the D10 is.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 19, 2019)

I have some Topping DACs, I think they sound fine  AB'd against some of the lower end Schiit line up, heard no difference.  Maybe they have improved over time?

Supposed to have the Lampi Amber 3 for a trial here soon, hoping to get my socks knocked off.


----------



## UntilThen

TonyNewman said:


> You can have my Topping D2. I thought I had thrown it away, but I still have it. This was my first ever headphone DAC/amp. Then I got a HD600 and a WA6 and a Simaudio 100D DAC, and things snowballed from there. The D2 is a truly awful sounding piece of kit. I can only guess at how excremental the D10 is.



Chuckle chuckle we could start a Topping museum. Topping D10 use a Sabre ES9018Mk2 chip, similar to the Burson Audio Play DAC / amp that I just sold off. As with most ES9018, the tone is clinical, cold and cutting edge lol. I'm happy with Yggdrasil and unlikely to change till 2021, then I might be keen to look at a Lampizator with tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have some Topping DACs, I think they sound fine  AB'd against some of the lower end Schiit line up, heard no difference.  Maybe they have improved over time?



You're not wrong about the Topping DACs. On first listen, it ain't too bad but having come from 2 years usage of Yggdrasil, it's quite clear which I prefer. No bias here, just my ears and $100.  It's hard to love the tone from Topping D10 after you're used to Yggdrasil - well for me at least. 

Best not to sample the 'better' DACs because it will be painful to go down to a Topping D10. For a weekend back home, there's nothing to complain about.....


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Supposed to have the Lampi Amber 3 for a trial here soon, hoping to get my socks knocked off.


Well... it is a blessing and a curse! Blew my socks off, but that could have financial consequences...


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Well... it is a blessing and a curse! Blew my socks off, but that could have financial consequences...



Have you heard the Lampizator Golden Gate? This one look so good that's I'm willing to trade off several of my amps lol.

Just looks of course. I've not heard a Lampizator dac.


----------



## attmci

JazzVinyl said:


> The six pack of 6BX or BL7's cannot be beat here either Usopp...every once in a while I try my other powers but does not take long to come "home" to the six pack.  Works so very well, sounds so good.
> 
> Cheers!


Well, it depends on what are those "other powers".............I like the my other powers.


----------



## attmci

Zachik said:


> Well... it is a blessing and a curse! Blew my socks off, but that could have financial consequences...


Let him get the dac please. He may face more financial consequences if he tried all those dacs......


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Have you heard the Lampizator Golden Gate? This one look so good that's I'm willing to trade off several of my amps lol.
> 
> Just looks of course. I've not heard a Lampizator dac.


No. I have only auditioned the Amber 3 which is the entry level DAC by Lampizator. 
Granted, entry level is a relative term - it costs roughly same as the Yggy...


----------



## Phantaminum

The Bifrost 2 is such a fantastic DAC. For the price it comes in and how well it resolves (I think even better than the Gugnir A1) it definitely punches above it’s weight.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> Well, it depends on what are those "other powers".............I like the my other powers.



But sir, you do not own Glenn's GOTL, correct?    You have not experienced 'the six pack'.


----------



## attmci

JazzVinyl said:


> But sir, you do not own Glenn's GOTL, correct?    You have not experienced 'the six pack'.


There are more amps than I had heard/learned, I totally agree with you. 

But does this has anything to do with my comments on the output tubes? I don't think so.


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> There are more amps than I had heard/learned, I totally agree with you.
> 
> But does this has anything to do with my comments on the output tubes? I don't think so.



Oh I think it most certainly did, sir:

The 6x of 6BX/BL7 in Glenns' OTL amp are preferred by many owners, to other power tubes, no matter how expensive/good the "others" are.
There is synergy in that amp with the 6x.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> It's OK ! I am having a good laugh myself.
> 
> Half a day more in Sydney then I go back to Canberra again, leaving poor Topping D10 behind.....  I'll sample it when I come back again.
> 
> ...



Running at 250 volts is not a bad thing it will give less power but how much power do you need for headphones?
A benefit is the tubes will last longer. You will get 5 watts more then enough.
The EL3N is more then enough power at 3 Watts.


----------



## 2359glenn

I finally got brave enough to use my Verite with the NEC 6AS7s these are really good sounding tubes.
I let these tubes run for awhile into other headphones to make sure they had no problems like pops that could damage the Verites
The GEC 6AS7s have a bit more air but these are a close second.
Will listen to these tubes for awhile and give the GECs a break.


----------



## heliosphann

Phantaminum said:


> The Bifrost 2 is such a fantastic DAC. For the price it comes in and how well it resolves (I think even better than the Gugnir A1) it definitely punches above it’s weight.



Hope it's a lot better than the Bifrost Multibit. I did not like that DAC at all.


----------



## heliosphann

UsoppNoKami said:


> I last posted here saying I liked listening to my Verite on the GOTL with WE422A, 6x 6bx7 , 2x Lorenz C3g and a Brimar tall bottle black glass 6sn7 in a triple driver config. Did more SN7 rolling, and I reckon the very warm Brimar tube with rolled off highs complimented the transparent C3gs. Wouldn't put anything else in with that combo.
> 
> For my gear, ears and taste, I have concluded that the WE422A has a better tonality, more realism on instruments and a nice balanced sound from bass to highs. The GEC U52/CV575 is probably better suited to drivers that are less lush than the Mullards, since they bring the mids more forward.
> 
> With Glenn's OTL amp design, a lot of tubes and combos sound good, I really love the cheap 6 pack power tubes and haven't been using my 5998, 421A and 6as7g tubes at all. But this WE rectifier is worth buying IMHO. Thanks @2359glenn for the recommendation early on, I had a long period of time to search for them



I've been listening to the 422A + 6x 6BX7's with the Verite Closed. Really love how you can get such a wide range of refinements just by swapping out the driver. Haven't tried the C3g's yet, but I've rolled quite a few that I really like with various results. Only issue I'm having which many have talked about is excessive noise from drivers who don't play well with the 6x 6XB7's.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 19, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> I finally got brave enough to use my Verite with the NEC 6AS7s these are really good sounding tubes.
> I let these tubes run for awhile into other headphones to make sure they had no problems like pops that could damage the Verites
> The GEC 6AS7s have a bit more air but these are a close second.
> Will listen to these tubes for awhile and give the GECs a break.



Glad you like them, hope they were worth the wait.  I have these coming to me next, probably sound the same, but maybe they are even a little better, NEC 6520.  Both pairs are NIB, hopefully no more gassy tubes!

Also have four more NEC 6AS7G and a batch of ten untested NEC 6080 on the way.  I think I'm turning Japanese...


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Hey O, AUD $43.37 can't even fill a full tank of petrol now !


Thanks Oskari. This amount translates into USD 29.37. I know that the C3g tubes cost the equivalent of around USD200 in it's day,  so it could be that some tubes are bargains today compared to their prices when new.


----------



## Phantaminum

heliosphann said:


> Hope it's a lot better than the Bifrost Multibit. I did not like that DAC at all.



The original Bifrost and Modi multibit basically had the same tech inside. This time the Bifrost 2 has almost the same tech as the Gungnir Multibit A2 except the background is much blacker and the SE out are not gimped.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> The original Bifrost and Modi multibit basically had the same tech inside. This time the Bifrost 2 has almost the same tech as the Gungnir Multibit A2 except the background is much blacker and the SE out are not gimped.


Somebody gave me a Jotenheim Multibit DAC updated to the latest specs. Does it have the same internals as the Bifrost 2?


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Somebody gave me a Jotenheim Multibit DAC updated to the latest specs. Does it have the same internals as the Bifrost 2?



Same tech as the Modi Multibit. The Bifrost 2 has the cheaper chip from the Gungnir MB but the darker background is much more noticeable.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Thanks Oskari. This amount translates into USD 29.37. I know that the C3g tubes cost the equivalent of around USD200 in it's day,  so it could be that some tubes are bargains today compared to their prices when new.


Mordy, the prices are determined by supply and demand.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Mordy, the prices are determined by supply and demand.


Hi attmci,
You are right, but I was curious about how the original tube prices when they were manufactured some 50-60 years ago compare with the prices we pay today.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> You are right, but I was curious about how the original tube prices when they were manufactured some 50-60 years ago compare with the prices we pay today.


Most of the tubes could be cheaper when there were supplies.  Who is that nice guy donate the dac to you?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> That's what I said not too long ago but as a friend, I'm here to help and will relief you of your 5998,  WE 421A and GEC 6as7s.



I do like all of them too  Will surely come back to them soon enough heheh


----------



## UsoppNoKami

heliosphann said:


> I've been listening to the 422A + 6x 6BX7's with the Verite Closed. Really love how you can get such a wide range of refinements just by swapping out the driver. Haven't tried the C3g's yet, but I've rolled quite a few that I really like with various results. Only issue I'm having which many have talked about is excessive noise from drivers who don't play well with the 6x 6XB7's.



So far I have run into 1 noisy TS 12sn7, a NU 6sn7 and one or two of my RCA 6BX7GT tubes. Everything else is dead silent with current bunch of 6BX7 tubes in the amp, pausing music & cranking volume high quickly - black background. A set of RCA 6BL7 was quiet too. A lot more to try, TS set, Sylvania, GE, etc. but not in a rush to get through them


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Running at 250 volts is not a bad thing it will give less power but how much power do you need for headphones?
> A benefit is the tubes will last longer. You will get 5 watts more then enough.
> The EL3N is more then enough power at 3 Watts.



A lot of thoughts going through my mind now. I am thinking for power tubes, there will be a pair of sockets for EL12, EL12 spez plus another pair of sockets for EL34, KT66 and 6V6. These can be used together as quad or as dual. 

There will be a pair of sockets for EL11 drivers, flanked by a pair of sockets for L63 / 6j5 drivers. These drivers can be used as quad or dual.

A single 5 volt rectifier for GEC U52, Cossor 53ku, Mullard GZ34 & WE 422a.

Is this doable or too crazy?

Meanwhile I’m listening to my 2 channel stereo system playing LPs on my turntable. It’s times like this, I wonder why I’m still so obsessed with Head-Fi.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> So far I have run into 1 noisy TS 12sn7, a NU 6sn7 and one or two of my RCA 6BX7GT tubes. Everything else is dead silent with current bunch of 6BX7 tubes in the amp, pausing music & cranking volume high quickly - black background. A set of RCA 6BL7 was quiet too. A lot more to try, TS set, Sylvania, GE, etc. but not in a rush to get through them



It will take you a year to go through all the tube combinations before you get sick of tube rolling. Then it's time to get another transformer coupled amp from Glenn.


----------



## UntilThen

31 guests looking in. They are looking at you Monster and Mordy !


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I finally got brave enough to use my Verite with the NEC 6AS7s these are really good sounding tubes.
> I let these tubes run for awhile into other headphones to make sure they had no problems like pops that could damage the Verites
> The GEC 6AS7s have a bit more air but these are a close second.
> Will listen to these tubes for awhile and give the GECs a break.



Glenn, perhaps you should change your amp to run with 6V6g tube because the GEC 6V6g is much cheaper and could very well impressed you. Use that with GEC L63 ST shape. I think that could be the beginning of a new dawn. That's what I would like Berlin to be altered to.... '

To be able to run:-

1.) EL11 as drivers and EL12, EL12N or EL12 spez as power tubes.
or
2.) GEC L63 / 6J5 as drivers and GEC 6V6G or Brimar 6V6GT or Mullard EL34 as power tubes.
or 
Combine 1 & 2.


----------



## mordy (Oct 20, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> 31 guests looking in. They are looking at you Monster and Mordy !


Did you mention a monster tube?


----------



## mordy

The tube above is the predecessor to the L63. Between you and me, what does another cap matter?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> The tube above is the predecessor to the L63. Between you and me, what does another cap matter?



It looks like an alien.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glad you like them, hope they were worth the wait.  I have these coming to me next, probably sound the same, but maybe they are even a little better, NEC 6520.  Both pairs are NIB, hopefully no more gassy tubes!
> 
> Also have four more NEC 6AS7G and a batch of ten untested NEC 6080 on the way.  I think I'm turning Japanese...



Do you have Chatham and RCA 6as7g to compare against this? They look a bit like RCA 6as7g but it has the copper rod. I once had a GE 6as7g that has copper rods too,


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Do you have Chatham and RCA 6as7g to compare against this? They look a bit like RCA 6as7g but it has the copper rod. I once had a GE 6as7g that has copper rods too,



I do have a Chatham pair but no longer a pair of RCA black plates.  The NEC have very noticeably better air and staging than the Chathams.  The reason they look so similar, from my understanding, is the US government subsidized companies like Western Electric and RCA to rebuild the electronics industry in Japan post WWII, so I am sure many of the same patents were used.  I also have some TEN (Fujitsu) 6AS7G, and despite also having a similar design to the RCA and have copper rods, the NEC are much better sounding.

Here is about the only place on the internet with any information on these tubes.  It is in Japanese, so you will have to let your web browser translate: https://radiomann.sakura.ne.jp/HomePageVT/Audio_US_Triode.html#6080


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glad you like them, hope they were worth the wait.  I have these coming to me next, probably sound the same, but maybe they are even a little better, NEC 6520.  Both pairs are NIB, hopefully no more gassy tubes!
> 
> Also have four more NEC 6AS7G and a batch of ten untested NEC 6080 on the way.  I think I'm turning Japanese...




Great looking tubes Keenan.

The person who I bought my Mullard EL34 xf2 tubes from, had a whole slew of them.180 of them to be exact.
He told me that he has tried all of the EL34 tubes and that the Japanese version came pretty close to the sound of some of the best EL34 tubes......for about 1/2 of the price

Seems the Japanese tubes punch well above their price point.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glad you like them, hope they were worth the wait.  I have these coming to me next, probably sound the same, but maybe they are even a little better, NEC 6520.  Both pairs are NIB, hopefully no more gassy tubes!
> 
> Also have four more NEC 6AS7G and a batch of ten untested NEC 6080 on the way.  I think I'm turning Japanese...


These are interesting 6520s. Here at US, all 6520s were made by TS.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 20, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> It's OK ! I am having a good laugh myself.
> 
> Half a day more in Sydney then I go back to Canberra again, leaving poor Topping D10 behind.....  I'll sample it when I come back again.
> 
> ...




UT...there will be some really nice benefits running at 250 volts.....most people only think about having all that power...but tubes will last much longer not being pushed to the max.
Amp will run a considerable amount cooler so you can run it all year , even in the summer months.  still will power damn near every headphone that you wish to plug into it.
The only thing is you may want the power for speakers.

The EL3N amp runs a lot cooler than the OTL amp...not even a contest really when it comes to heat.....chassis is always only luke warm even after being on all day.
The only thing that gets very hot is the rectifier tube. Even the EL34 tubes don't get very hot after an all day session and running at 250 volts they sound better to my ears  than my favorite power tubes in the OTL....   YMMV...    I am trying to work out a deal for a NOS military pair of KT66 to compare with the EL34.  @leftside has told me these tubes sound spectacular.

The only thing is, it makes you wonder how much better these pentode tubes can sound pushed harder.


----------



## attmci (Oct 20, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> UT...there will be some really nice benefits running at 250 volts.....most people only think about having all that power...but tubes will last much longer not being pushed to the max.
> Amp will run a considerable amount cooler so you can run it all year , even in the summer months.  still will power damn near every headphone that you wish to plug into it.
> The only thing is you may want the power for speakers.
> 
> ...


GEC KT66 or GE ones? From no tube rolling to power rolling....no offense taken..

whirlwind said: ↑
The basic Glenn OTL amp is an incredible deal, especially when you see how much most pure tube amps cost.
The thing is that it is very hard to order just the basic model, lol.
You want to add this upgrade, and that upgrade....*so say that you get the amp to the $1250-$1500 range..then the EL3N amp comes into play as it cost just a tad bit more, but there is no need to roll tubes other than rectifier tubes if you wish to.*


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> UT...there will be some really nice benefits running at 250 volts.....most people only think about having all that power...but tubes will last much longer not being pushed to the max.
> Amp will run a considerable amount cooler so you can run it all year , even in the summer months.  still will power damn near every headphone that you wish to plug into it.
> The only thing is you may want the power for speakers.
> 
> ...



I am leaning towards running it at 250 volts now instead of 425 volts. Also thinking seriously of having quad power tubes. To simplify things, the quad powers will be:-  (4 x EL12 spez) or (4 x EL12) or (4 x EL12N) or (2 x EL12 spez + 2 x EL12) etc etc. This means that the EL12 spez will have adapters and I'll request Glenn to build them for me.  4 adapters to be precise.

Drivers will be 2 x EL11 or 2 x GEC L63 / or 6J5 variants. Not decided to add the L63 / 6J5 additional drivers yet. Still deciding on the overall looks. Or I might go back to dual EL12 spez as power tubes with no adapters. Decisions, decisions.... or indecisions !


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> These are interesting 6520s. Here at US, all 6520s were made by TS.



If you read the text in the link I posted (translated) the author seems to suggest that Nippon Electric wanted to compete directly with Chatham and designed some of their tubes specicially to do this.  The example given is NEC switched the getter from top to bottom on their 6AS7G for exportation since the Chatham 6AS7G has a bottom getter.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 20, 2019)

attmci said:


> GEC KT66 or GE ones? From no tube rolling to power rolling....no offense here.
> 
> whirlwind said: ↑
> The basic Glenn OTL amp is an incredible deal, especially when you see how much most pure tube amps cost.
> ...




GEC KT66..from May 1954 from Hammersmith...not the oldest by any means but should be very good.

There is no need to roll tubes in the EL3N amp....there is no need to roll tubes in the OTL amp...but it is a great option to have in both amps.

There were no adapters to roll tubes in the EL3N amp until just pretty recently. Now there are and there are many tubes to try if one is interested in doing so.

Being that the option is now there to roll tubes in the EL3N amp and it was not there before...if i was buying my first amp from Glenn, this would definitely be the way that I would go. YMMV
I think more people like to roll tubes than not in Glenn's amps.  My guess it is what has made the OTL amp so popular.

It is just basically what ever is someone's preference, budget ect.
All of Glenns amps are fantastic, I do not see many people complaining no matter what amp that they own.

It is true...if you max out the OTL amp you will get close to $1500 or more and for a bit more you can own the EL3N amp....the basic OTL amp can be had for about half of the price of a fully upgraded OTL amp.

Where can you find an OTL amp for $750 that uses as many tubes as Glenn's does ?  You will be looking for quite some time and even then you would need to get it custom made.

Plenty of choices for all budgets, including those that can afford a 300B amp, which cost more.


----------



## UntilThen

I manage to snag a single GEC 6as7g. This is NOS, virgin, unused.  I think it's very old too looking at the older label. There's a code on the glass there. Anyone can make out the year of manufacture ?

Then the seller (private) told me he has a pair of NOS Mullard ECC33, a pair of NOS Mullard ECC32, a pair of NOS matched Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, a pair of Mullard GZ34 metal base, a pair of NOS Marconi KT66, a pair of of NOS KT77 ...... and I fainted with joy and fear at how much these will cost me.  I must resist ! No more tubes !


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> GEC KT66..from May 1954 from Hammersmith...not the oldest by any means but should be very good.
> 
> There is no need to roll tubes in the EL3N amp....there is no need to roll tubes in the OTL amp...but it is a great option to have in both amps.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. Moreover, the custom amp can use the best parts available.


----------



## UntilThen

Came back to Canberra and immediately plonk the WA22 back on the rack, connected to Yggdrasil and have Studio Six and GOTL fired up on all pistons. I realise what I've been missing the last 2 days playing with the Topping 10 !

Verite plugged into GOTL, Studio Six and WA22, one after another and the soundstage is on another level. Texture, timbre and tone are from another planet. 

Hmmm didn't hear GOTL for 2 days and it's like a different animal ! It's the most punchy and stimulating of the 3 amps. Studio Six is also amazing. I missed this Head-Fi station !


----------



## 2359glenn

attmci said:


> GEC KT66 or GE ones? From no tube rolling to power rolling....no offense taken..
> 
> whirlwind said: ↑
> The basic Glenn OTL amp is an incredible deal, especially when you see how much most pure tube amps cost.
> ...



I think he is just testing the sound of tubes for his new amp
I DID NOT MAKE THE EL3N AMT TO TUBE ROLL.  But Dean made a side pin to octal adapter that allowed EL34 and 6V6 to be run in the amp.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I think he is just testing the sound of tubes for his new amp
> I DID NOT MAKE THE EL3N AMT TO TUBE ROLL.  But Dean made a side pin to octal adapter that allowed EL34 and 6V6 to be run in the amp.



Absolutely ! Joe is not a tube roller. He's just trying out those power tubes to get an idea for his new amp. I don't get it why some people jump to wrong conclusions easily. It should be very obvious that Joe is not all out to power tube roll in his EL3N amp. Don't waste your time answering such questions.


----------



## UntilThen

K, you might want to take your mind off tubes for a change. This one can be had for $400. 

It doesn't hum, it doesn't sing but it will breathe.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 20, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> K, you might want to take your mind off tubes for a change. This one can be had for $400.
> 
> It doesn't hum, it doesn't sing but it will breathe.



Beautiful!  Tubes right now are my reprieve when I need to take my mind off other things, but maybe soon it will be bonsai too  have to find a tree that will survive the indoors though, the Cleveland winter would not be kind.

I went to the Chicago botanical gardens when I was there for ZMFestivus, they had some absolutely stunning bonsai, trees that were hundreds of years old.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Great looking tubes Keenan.
> 
> The person who I bought my Mullard EL34 xf2 tubes from, had a whole slew of them.180 of them to be exact.
> He told me that he has tried all of the EL34 tubes and that the Japanese version came pretty close to the sound of some of the best EL34 tubes......for about 1/2 of the price
> ...



Thanks, Joe, they really do.  As long as you don't mind dealing with the international shipping and using a proxy buyer, you can get some really nice tubes.  There is also a gambling aspect since many Japanese sellers do not test their tubes!  But if you are only paying $15-20 a tube, I think it is worth a shot.

I took a much bigger gamble in the past and bought some NIB but untested Mullard ECC32 from a Japanese seller.  Luckily they both work fantastically and I got the pair for $300.  Take that, eBay


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> I think he is just testing the sound of tubes for his new amp
> I DID NOT MAKE THE EL3N AMT TO TUBE ROLL.  But Dean made a side pin to octal adapter that allowed EL34 and 6V6 to be run in the amp.



@whirlwind - do you plan to also give the 6V6 a go?


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 20, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> @whirlwind - do you plan to also give the 6V6 a go?




 I have tried the GEC KT63 tubes, which I believe are 6F6 tubes....similar to 6V6 maybe

I think 6F6 is pentode and 6V6 is beam pentode


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks, Joe, they really do.  As long as you don't mind dealing with the international shipping and using a proxy buyer, you can get some really nice tubes.  There is also a gambling aspect since many Japanese sellers do not test their tubes!  But if you are only paying $15-20 a tube, I think it is worth a shot.
> 
> I took a much bigger gamble in the past and bought some NIB but untested Mullard ECC32 from a Japanese seller.  Luckily they both work fantastically and I got the pair for $300.  Take that, eBay



Sort of a generic question, tx. What is common practice for ebay tubes that fail upon receipt, especially internationally? Given that they are fragile, how are most sellers if you get one that they say was good, but turns out to be bad? I assume in your Japan case, if they are cheap tubes, a failure is a failure. If not, how often do you expect to get bunk tubes where you are stuck with them? eBay rules seem to favour sellers so I imagine you can say it was defective via eBay/ PayPal? Given that some are pricey, seems like going with the most known sellers is best? 

While there are some good larger sources here in England, I suspect I will be acquiring more tubes


----------



## Phantaminum

chrisdrop said:


> Sort of a generic question, tx. What is common practice for ebay tubes that fail upon receipt, especially internationally? Given that they are fragile, how are most sellers if you get one that they say was good, but turns out to be bad? I assume in your Japan case, if they are cheap tubes, a failure is a failure. If not, how often do you expect to get bunk tubes where you are stuck with them? eBay rules seem to favour sellers so I imagine you can say it was defective via eBay/ PayPal? Given that some are pricey, seems like going with the most known sellers is best?
> 
> While there are some good larger sources here in England, I suspect I will be acquiring more tubes



Not directed at me but we all pretty much have experience dealing with with eBay when buying tubes. I’d start off by first looking to buy from someone that allows returns. If it says 14 days return, I usually message the seller asking if this the purchase date or when the item was received. 

If you’re allowed returns usually you can message the seller and ask to return the defective item(s). Once returned they issue you a refund or make other arrangements (I had a seller send me a Tung Sol 6C8G NOS to replace a Sylvania 6C8G that didn’t work).  If you buy from Russia it’s not worth it to send the items back. Most of the tubes are sold cheaply (10 - 25 a pop) and if have one that’s defective they won’t pay for returns. So internationally you’re looking at $45-60 at USPS and more from the private carriers. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I manage to snag a single GEC 6as7g. This is NOS, virgin, unused.  I think it's very old too looking at the older label. There's a code on the glass there. Anyone can make out the year of manufacture ?
> 
> Then the seller (private) told me he has a pair of NOS Mullard ECC33, a pair of NOS Mullard ECC32, a pair of NOS matched Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, a pair of Mullard GZ34 metal base, a pair of NOS Marconi KT66, a pair of of NOS KT77 ...... and I fainted with joy and fear at how much these will cost me.  I must resist ! No more tubes !



I believe I see HJ in the lower right-hand corner. If so, H = 1952 and J = September. Interestingly, I have three pairs of these, 1949, 1956 and 1961, but the date codes are all in the lower left-hand corner.


----------



## Sound Trooper

2359glenn said:


> I think he is just testing the sound of tubes for his new amp
> I DID NOT MAKE THE EL3N AMT TO TUBE ROLL.  But Dean made a side pin to octal adapter that allowed EL34 and 6V6 to be run in the amp.



I can attest to this. However even if the EL3N amp was not built to run the EL34 tube, it still sounded magnificent. This only reinforces my belief that an amp built around the EL34 tubes will be pure magic.

By hook or by crook, i foresee an EL34 amp in my (hopefully) not so distant future.


----------



## leftside

chrisdrop said:


> Sort of a generic question, tx. What is common practice for ebay tubes that fail upon receipt, especially internationally? Given that they are fragile, how are most sellers if you get one that they say was good, but turns out to be bad? I assume in your Japan case, if they are cheap tubes, a failure is a failure. If not, how often do you expect to get bunk tubes where you are stuck with them? eBay rules seem to favour sellers so I imagine you can say it was defective via eBay/ PayPal? Given that some are pricey, seems like going with the most known sellers is best?
> 
> While there are some good larger sources here in England, I suspect I will be acquiring more tubes


You have a couple of things wrong there. eBay and PayPal will favour the buyer 99% of the time. If you can prove the tube is faulty, then you'll be able to return the tubes(s) and the seller will need to pay return postage costs - yes even if they advertise "no refunds". 

I try and avoid eBay, and typically deal with just a single seller I know (from England), but sometimes eBay is your only route for some of these tubes. Going with known sellers is best, but don't be too afraid to buy from a relatively unknown seller. You can always check out their feedback. Even if the tube is "untested" there are tell-tale signs whether the tube will be "good" or not, like the condition of the getter flashing, etc. This is where you'll find the bargains...

A couple of other sellers with great tubes are alibossa from Scotland and lamberto1111 from Spain - he sold off a truly great collection of tubes recently. There are others of course. For me living in Canada, postage costs are far cheaper from Germany or the UK than the US!


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> I DID NOT MAKE THE EL3N AMT TO TUBE ROLL. But Dean made a side pin to octal adapter that allowed EL34 and 6V6 to be run in the amp.


Glenn - I am curious, which of the EL3N could be swapped out for EL34 or 6V6 tubes? Drivers, output, or both?
Also, in term of power - would using 6V6 or EL34 give more power (especially for speaker taps) in case needed?
And lastly, would the transformers be able to easily handle it?



Sound Trooper said:


> I can attest to this. However even if the EL3N amp was not built to run the EL34 tube, it still sounded magnificent. This only reinforces my belief that an amp built around the EL34 tubes will be pure magic.


Which EL34 have you used? new production or NOS? I know EL34 is still in production, and new tubes are probably much cheaper than NOS...


----------



## leftside

I'm now out of the deep, dark and fun hole that I've been in the last couple of weekends with Analog Magik and Mint Best Protractor. My thoughts can be found on the VPI thread if interested:
http://vpiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13268&p=56487#p56487

The summary? I'm very pleased with the results. I now know wayyyyy more about turntables than I ever thought possible. Now looking forward to an afternoon and evening enjoying the fruits of my labour.


----------



## Monsterzero

@Phantaminum did you ever figure out which temp you set your soldering iron to revive noisy tubes?


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> @Phantaminum did you ever figure out which temp you set your soldering iron to revive noisy tubes?



Sorry MZ,

Had to jet down to Houston for a wedding and didn’t get a chance to take pictures and the temps being used. Heading back now and will have to time today to get them to you.


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Glenn - I am curious, which of the EL3N could be swapped out for EL34 or 6V6 tubes? Drivers, output, or both?
> Also, in term of power - would using 6V6 or EL34 give more power (especially for speaker taps) in case needed?
> And lastly, would the transformers be able to easily handle it?
> 
> ...



It is the outputs that can be switched out.  The output transformers can easily handle it they are way overkill.
It might actually might be better to use EL34 for outputs??
Decide now before the amp is built.


----------



## attmci

chrisdrop said:


> Sort of a generic question, tx. What is common practice for ebay tubes that fail upon receipt, especially internationally? Given that they are fragile, how are most sellers if you get one that they say was good, but turns out to be bad? I assume in your Japan case, if they are cheap tubes, a failure is a failure. If not, how often do you expect to get bunk tubes where you are stuck with them? eBay rules seem to favour sellers so I imagine you can say it was defective via eBay/ PayPal? Given that some are pricey, seems like going with the most known sellers is best?
> 
> While there are some good larger sources here in England, I suspect I will be acquiring more tubes


It depends. I feel the eBay want to protect a buyer who have been with them for a long time and maintains good ratings. The PayPal will favor the seller.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Sort of a generic question, tx. What is common practice for ebay tubes that fail upon receipt, especially internationally? Given that they are fragile, how are most sellers if you get one that they say was good, but turns out to be bad? I assume in your Japan case, if they are cheap tubes, a failure is a failure. If not, how often do you expect to get bunk tubes where you are stuck with them? eBay rules seem to favour sellers so I imagine you can say it was defective via eBay/ PayPal? Given that some are pricey, seems like going with the most known sellers is best?
> 
> While there are some good larger sources here in England, I suspect I will be acquiring more tubes


Hi chrisdrop,
In general I have had good experiences with eBay with some caveats:
I avoid the high priced professional sellers; some of them are truly dishonest. 
When it comes to sellers I usually look at their previous feedback and if it is 100% most people care to preserve that rating.
Once in a while you may end up buying a bad tube but this is uncommon.
When it happens you first contact the seller and describe the issue.
Many times they will promptly issue a refund and I can’t remember anybody asking me to send back a defective tube. 
If the seller is uncooperative you may want to indicate that you hate to leave negative feedback and ask them to respond. BTW, the feedback is a very powerful tool.
If everything so far fails, you open up a claim via eBay and as said before, they usually are in favor of the buyer.
Whenever I can, I pay via PayPal using a credit card which affords additional layers of protection.
I once had a shipment get lost in the US Customs. The seller did nothing wrong but maybe the customs agent mistook the getter flash for mercury and confiscated the tubes — no information available even after many inquires.
I called PayPal and explained my situation and they refunded my payment in full!
One more point: if you order several tubes and one is defective, the seller may agree to send you a replacement or refund part of the money.
So in summary I am not worried buying on eBay - most people are decent and want you to be happy with your purchase.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Beautiful!  Tubes right now are my reprieve when I need to take my mind off other things, but maybe soon it will be bonsai too  have to find a tree that will survive the indoors though, the Cleveland winter would not be kind.
> 
> I went to the Chicago botanical gardens when I was there for ZMFestivus, they had some absolutely stunning bonsai, trees that were hundreds of years old.



A lot of Bonsai trees are older than us.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> I believe I see HJ in the lower right-hand corner. If so, H = 1952 and J = September. Interestingly, I have three pairs of these, 1949, 1956 and 1961, but the date codes are all in the lower left-hand corner.



On the lower left hand corner, I see 'I' and lower right hand corner 'HJ'. Jack says he bought this tube together with a lot of tubes more than 20 years ago. He has Leak and other old tube amplifiers. He had completely forgotten about this GEC 6as7g because it's sitting in a big box of tubes. It only has a white box. He also has a pair of United Electron which he says is made in England and it's printed on the base of the tube. I am not in a hurry to buy these until I can verify it. Looks a bit like Chatham 6as7g construction. He also has a single Tung Sol 6as7g, which he says is similar to the United Electron in looks.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> By hook or by crook, i foresee an EL34 amp in my (hopefully) not so distant future.



Not sure which is the better option - by hook or by crook   Alright alright just kidding but I've not heard this expression for a long time since I left Singapore. 

You will get your EL34 amp and it will make the Blue Hawaii pale in comparison. EL34 driving EL34 !!!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I have tried the GEC KT63 tubes, which I believe are 6F6 tubes....similar to 6V6 maybe
> 
> I think 6F6 is pentode and 6V6 is beam pentode



I'll be trying a pair of these in Studio Six ... in due time. Trying to roll different tubes in 3 tube amps can be a bit of a challenge.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> On the lower left hand corner, I see 'I' and lower right hand corner 'HJ'. Jack says he bought this tube together with a lot of tubes more than 20 years ago. He has Leak and other old tube amplifiers. He had completely forgotten about this GEC 6as7g because it's sitting in a big box of tubes. It only has a white box. He also has a pair of United Electron which he says is made in England and it's printed on the base of the tube. I am not in a hurry to buy these until I can verify it. Looks a bit like Chatham 6as7g construction. He also has a single Tung Sol 6as7g, which he says is similar to the United Electron in looks.


Hi UT,
Stavros sold me a TS 5998 that came in a United Electron box so perhaps it is a TS/Chatham.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> It is the outputs that can be switched out.  The output transformers can easily handle it they are way overkill.
> *It might actually might be better to use EL34 for outputs??*
> Decide now before the amp is built.



I agree !!! @Zachik  Use EL3N as drivers (if it were me I'll be using EL11) and quad EL34 as power tubes. Decide now !  This is what makes @Sound Trooper says he will get his EL34 amp by hook or by crook.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Stavros sold me a TS 5998 that came in a United Electron box so perhaps it is a TS/Chatham.



I think it's a TS / Chatham equivalent too. He has a pair of NOS ECC32 .... tempting. He also has a pair of Marconi KT66.  and he has many rectifiers from Germany ... 

I'm going four wheel driving in the outback this Sat just to take myself away from buying more tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> Which EL34 have you used? new production or NOS? I know EL34 is still in production, and new tubes are probably much cheaper than NOS...



Zachie, just buy a quad pair of NOS Mullard EL34 or Telefunken EL34 and be done with it. Forget about the new production tubes though the Blue Hawaii I heard in 2017 with Stax SR-009 had quad Svetlana EL34 and it sounded very good with Pink Panther music.  I know electrostatic so things are different.


----------



## UntilThen

Phew GOTL sounded so good this morning, it's hard to tear myself away to go to work. Even after 2 months, I still feel the Verite Open is a natural with GOTL. It's an incredible pairing. Cheers to all GOTL owners.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> It is the outputs that can be switched out.  The output transformers can easily handle it they are way overkill.
> It might actually might be better to use EL34 for outputs??
> Decide now before the amp is built.


Glenn - any downside to just leave the EL3N Yamamoto sockets as planned?  
I could always use Deyan adapters for EL34... From photos I have seen (by @whirlwind I believe) - the adapters are tiny.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> I agree !!! @Zachik  Use EL3N as drivers (if it were me I'll be using EL11) and quad EL34 as power tubes. Decide now !  This is what makes @Sound Trooper says he will get his EL34 amp by hook or by crook.


UT - why not use adapters for EL34 and EL11?  The EL3N tubes are order of magnitude cheaper! And already sound great before "upgrading" them to EL11 and/or EL34... Just thinking out loud...
Not to mention my amp already got a name! 6EL3N.  How would I name an amp with EL11 drivers and EL34 output tubes?  6ELXX ?!


----------



## UntilThen

Zachie a good name would be SIXSEX. 

And you’re asking the wrong guy regarding adapters.


----------



## attmci

Zachik said:


> Glenn - I am curious, which of the EL3N could be swapped out for EL34 or 6V6 tubes? Drivers, output, or both?
> Also, in term of power - would using 6V6 or EL34 give more power (especially for speaker taps) in case needed?
> And lastly, would the transformers be able to easily handle it?
> 
> ...


These?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-AL5-pow...781706?hash=item48c9880c0a:g:1d0AAOSwF~1cwKXM


----------



## 2359glenn

Just finished building A nice little wooden amp to go along with a ZMF headphone.
Basic model but has a Gold Point stepped Attenuator and Jupiter coupling capacitors.
Perfect amp for ZMF phones sounds great with them.


----------



## UntilThen

Picture please Glenn.... of the wooden amp.

Wooden amp !


----------



## TonyNewman

UntilThen said:


> Picture please Glenn.... of the wooden amp.
> 
> Wooden amp !



+1. Some amp p0rn please.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Picture please Glenn.... of the wooden amp.
> 
> Wooden amp !



tomorrow  I will take a pic.


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> Glenn - any downside to just leave the EL3N Yamamoto sockets as planned?
> I could always use Deyan adapters for EL34... From photos I have seen (by @whirlwind I believe) - the adapters are tiny.


@whirlwind Joe - am I correct to remember you've tried EL34 in your GEL3N using Deyan's adapters?
or was it @Sound Trooper ?
I need some honest opinions from someone who tried EL34 and/or EL11 in a GEL3N with adapters, before making final decision on sockets (and name...) for my 6EL3N.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Zachie a good name would be SIXSEX.


hmmmmm....... 
I am driving myself crazy trying to decide QUICKLY on EL3N sockets (excellent quality) and use with EL3N (as intended) with option in the future to use drivers for EL11 and/or EL34... or commit to those MUCH pricier tubes and just have sockets for EL11 and EL34. REALLY tough call, and hope to get feedback from GEL3N owners who tried adapters before deciding!


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> hmmmmm.......
> I am driving myself crazy trying to decide QUICKLY on EL3N sockets (excellent quality) and use with EL3N (as intended) with option in the future to use drivers for EL11 and/or EL34... or commit to those MUCH pricier tubes and just have sockets for EL11 and EL34. REALLY tough call, and hope to get feedback from GEL3N owners who tried adapters before deciding!



You need to read Joe and Sam’s posts. Both of them use EL3N as drivers and NOS EL34 as power tubes with adapters and they love it so much so that they are having a customised amp just to run those tubes with quad EL34.

Running EL11 with quad EL34 would be almost similar to Berlin except Berlin will use EL12 spez instead of EL34.

How close in tone is EL12 spez and EL34 is anybody’s guess. Unless someone has heard those 2 tubes in the same amp.


----------



## UntilThen

The only advantage of EL3N over EL11 is the plentiful supply of cheap NOS EL3N.

EL11 is a dying breed but I have about 7 NOS pairs of different brands.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> You need to read Joe and Sam’s posts. Both of them use EL3N as drivers and NOS EL34 as power tubes with adapters and they love it so much so that they are having a customised amp just to run those tubes with quad EL34.





UntilThen said:


> The only advantage of EL3N over EL11 is the plentiful supply of cheap NOS EL3N.
> 
> EL11 is a dying breed but I have about 7 NOS pairs of different brands.



I understand. The only *urgent* pending question is: 
a. Keep EL3N sockets which allow (with tiny adapters) for EL11 / EL34 ?
OR
b. Commit to expensive (dying breed) tubes by selecting EL11 (and EL34) sockets? EL3N tubes might still be possible, but adapters would be huge and ugly...


----------



## Phantaminum

@Monsterzero Here’s the soldering i’m using and it sits at “4” which i’m not sure what the temp is (i’ll download the manual). It can be bought off Amazon.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Zachik said:


> I understand. The only *urgent* pending question is:
> a. Keep EL3N sockets which allow (with tiny adapters) for EL11 / EL34 ?
> OR
> b. Commit to expensive (dying breed) tubes by selecting EL11 (and EL34) sockets? EL3N tubes might still be possible, but adapters would be huge and ugly...



My vote is to not go for a "dying breeds" of tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> I understand. The only *urgent* pending question is:
> a. Keep EL3N sockets which allow (with tiny adapters) for EL11 / EL34 ?
> OR
> b. Commit to expensive (dying breed) tubes by selecting EL11 (and EL34) sockets? EL3N tubes might still be possible, but adapters would be huge and ugly...



Very simple Zachie. EL3N as drivers and quad EL34 as power. Get those sockets in and no tube rolling required.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> Very simple Zachie. EL3N as drivers and quad EL34 as power. Get those sockets in and no tube rolling required.



I’ll be more specific. Have EL3N sockets for the front drivers because you’re going to use EL3N as drivers.

Have 4 x octal sockets behind for EL34 or 6V6 because you will be using quad EL34 as power tubes or quad 6V6 as power tubes.

Neat and great sounding according to @Sound Trooper


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> I’ll be more specific. Have EL3N sockets for the front drivers because you’re going to use EL3N as drivers.
> 
> Have 4 x octal sockets behind for EL34 or 6V6 because you will be using quad EL34 as power tubes or quad 6V6 as power tubes.
> 
> Neat and great sounding according to @Sound Trooper


I will consult with @2359glenn 
I'm curious why the strong opposition to EL3N sockets and 4 miniature adapters to EL34 ? Would give me another option...


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> I will consult with @2359glenn
> I'm curious why the strong opposition to EL3N sockets and 4 miniature adapters to EL34 ? Would give me another option...



No opposition mate. Ultimately it's your decision. You will be happy with all EL3N and probably save money in the process. However, you should consider those who have GEL3N and why despite having that, they still want a customised amp to use EL3N or 6J5 as drivers with EL34, KT66, 6V6 as power tubes. The 2 are @whirlwind and @Sound Trooper. 

They will tell you that GEL3N is mighty good but they will also tell you that they really like what they hear with EL34 but off course if you have to factor in the cost of NOS EL34 then that's another consideration.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> *It might actually might be better to use EL34 for outputs??
> Decide now before the amp is built*.


 
Glenn has already replied ....


----------



## UntilThen

Zachie it seems that you've already make up your mind so stick with it. Don't let anyone deter you. Just go with 6GEL3N.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 22, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I am leaning towards running it at 250 volts now instead of 425 volts. Also thinking seriously of having quad power tubes. To simplify things, the quad powers will be:-  (4 x EL12 spez) or (4 x EL12) or (4 x EL12N) or (2 x EL12 spez + 2 x EL12) etc etc. This means that the EL12 spez will have adapters and I'll request Glenn to build them for me.  4 adapters to be precise.
> 
> Drivers will be 2 x EL11 or 2 x GEC L63 / or 6J5 variants. Not decided to add the L63 / 6J5 additional drivers yet. Still deciding on the overall looks. Or I might go back to dual EL12 spez as power tubes with no adapters. Decisions, decisions.... or indecisions !



From what I can see the 'Berlin' amp is not much different than my planned 'El Darwin', and maybe this is the better route:

Output transformer coupled (OTC) SET amp with Lundahl transformers
4x standard Octal sockets for 2-4x: EL34, KT66, KT77, 6L6 (with adapters: EL3N, EL12, EL12 Spez, EL32, EL38, EL39 and 7581A)
1x 6SN7 Octal socet (with adapters: dual 6J5/L63, single 6N7, EL11, mini 9-pin novals, etc.)
8 / 32 ohm output impedance knob for speakers (Gold Point switch 4 pole 2 position I believe)
1-2 stage knob (Gold Point switch 20 pole 2 position I believe)
cathode resistor bias switch (resistance values TBD by Glenn)
upgraded Jupiter coupling capacitor
Extremely versatile amp but I may end up KISS and go with just a few top combos that work best out of the gate and not even get all these tubes, but at least those other combinations are possible options.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 21, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> From what I can see the 'Berlin' amp is not much different than my planned 'El Darwin', and maybe this is the better route:
> 
> Output transformer coupled (OTC) SET amp with Lundahl transformers
> 4x standard Octal sockets for 2-4x: EL34, KT66, KT77, 6L6 (with adapters: EL3N, EL12, EL12 Spez, EL32, EL38, EL39 and 7581A)
> ...



That's not what I want anymore. It was my mind dreaming up too many options. I will revert back to a very simple setup which is what Berlin is all about. I don't want to go about trying all kinds of expensive power tubes. Besides I need a goal. A design goal. Do I want an amp to use all kinds of tubes? No. 

So now it's back to EL11 with EL12 spez. Quad or dual EL12 spez is still to be considered. Another consideration is to be able to use EL12, EL12N or EL12 spez as power tubes so I can maximise my tubes. Drivers will be solely EL11 of which I have 7 pairs. Sockets will be Y8A Pin Tube Sockets for the German steel EL tubes. I'm minimising adapters and since this is a customised amp, I can decide that up front.

So Berlin will be Berlin and not Berlin / Manchester.   except for the predominantly British rectifiers !!! but I might have some Germany rectifiers.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm listening to Studio Six now with Verite Open and I'm getting goosebumps. This morning I listen to GOTL with Verite and I get a wake up call. Later tonight I'll listen to WA22 with Verite and will wander why I'm still chasing another amp in Berlin. These 3 amps are that good. If Berlin is better by a lot, I'll eat my hat.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> I'm listening to Studio Six now with Verite Open and I'm getting goosebumps. This morning I listen to GOTL with Verite and I get a wake up call. Later tonight I'll listen to WA22 with Verite and will wander why I'm still chasing another amp in Berlin. These 3 amps are that good. If Berlin is better by a lot, I'll eat my hat.



Start getting some condiments to put on that nasty tasting hat !!!!


----------



## UsoppNoKami

2359glenn said:


> Start getting some condiments to put on that nasty tasting hat !!!!



Hahaha I will donate an old sock


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Start getting some condiments to put on that nasty tasting hat !!!!



Might as well fit the occasion.  Please chew the hat forty times before washing down with das Bier.  Feel free to use the mustard liberally.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> He also has a pair of United Electron which he says is made in England and it's printed on the base of the tube. I am not in a hurry to buy these until I can verify it. Looks a bit like Chatham 6as7g construction. He also has a single Tung Sol 6as7g, which he says is similar to the United Electron in looks.


Russian.


----------



## OctavianH

UntilThen said:


> On the lower left hand corner, I see 'I' and lower right hand corner 'HJ'. Jack says he bought this tube together with a lot of tubes more than 20 years ago. He has Leak and other old tube amplifiers. He had completely forgotten about this GEC 6as7g because it's sitting in a big box of tubes. It only has a white box. He also has a pair of United Electron which he says is made in England and it's printed on the base of the tube. I am not in a hurry to buy these until I can verify it. Looks a bit like Chatham 6as7g construction. He also has a single Tung Sol 6as7g, which he says is similar to the United Electron in looks.



These look to me identical to my pair of 6H13C I bout with 8 EUR/piece here locally. Ok, without base printing and those boxes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Oskari said:


> Russian.





OctavianH said:


> These look to me identical to my pair of 6H13C I bout with 8 EUR/piece here locally. Ok, without base printing and those boxes.



Clearly you all have never heard of the Russian province of ЁйgГдйd.  Very well known for their high-quality vacuum tubes, nothing to see here folks.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Might as well fit the occasion.  Please chew the hat forty times before washing down with das Bier.  Feel free to use the mustard liberally.



This looks good ! I'll eat it.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 21, 2019)

Zachik said:


> @whirlwind Joe - am I correct to remember you've tried EL34 in your GEL3N using Deyan's adapters?
> or was it @Sound Trooper ?
> I need some honest opinions from someone who tried EL34 and/or EL11 in a GEL3N with adapters, before making final decision on sockets (and name...) for my 6EL3N.




The adapters are pretty nice because they sit down in the EL3N sockets...this gives them a nice look.




As far as what sockets to use in you amp would be entirely up to you and what tubes that you want to use.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> Russian.



I better check the GEC 6as7g. If that's Russian, I'll definitely eat my hat !


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Hahaha I will donate an old sock



You will donate your WE 422a !


----------



## UntilThen

Will roll in the 6N7Gs on special requests...  

Mazda 6N7G are the same as Visseaux 6N7G. I had a pair of Visseaux 6N7G and I've heard it in a close A/B with the Mazda 6N7G. Sound the same and the internal construction are the same. I've given my pair of Visseaux 6N7G to @connieflyer sometime ago.

Left to right:-
2 x Fivre 6N7G clear glass, 2 x Fivre 6N7G brown base, 2 x Mazda 6N7G, Mullard ECC31.


----------



## UntilThen

Currently running a single Mazda 6N7G and 6 x GE 6bx7gt. I must admit that I have forgotten how good the Mazda 6N7G sound because it's been a while since I've heard them. Probably more than a year.

This combo is great for vocals. Mids are slightly forward and I dare say the 6N7G is more mid centric which I like a lot. Playing 'Bird on a wire' by Jennifer Warnes from the Famous Blue Raincoat 20th anniversary edition CD ripped as flac file and play back by JRiver Media Centre 24. Very good. Make that very very good.  Very vibrant and energetic tone. Bass is tight and has impact. Listening to 'Gravity' by John Mayer and it's so lovely.

Lastly one of my old time favourite - Tennessee Waltz by Allan Taylor and Chris Jones. If you're into audiophile recordings, you'll know Allan Taylor and Chris Jones. I have the CD from the days of car audio comp. This Youtube version is a poor version of what I hear from my ripped flac and play back on JRiver 24.

Finally lastly...  I listen to a classical piece just to satisfy myself that this combination can sound good across genre - Largo from "Xerxes". Exquisite. Beautiful. Recommended unreservedly. 

On the whole, Mazda 6N7G and 6 x GE 6bx7gt is a beautiful combination. Hard to fault it. So many good tubes, so little time.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Been a while since I posted a GOTL photo.  Listening to some Italian purity this morning: Fivre 6C5G inputs, sextet of Fivre 6BX7GT outputs.  This setup has just the right balance of lusciousness and detail, I think I will leave this in for a while, very content.

Listening to singer-songwriter extraordinaire Sufjan Stevens.  If you are into this kind of music, his album _Carrie & Lowell_ is a devastating masterpiece dedicated to the passing of his mother.  In its entirety, has to be one of the saddest albums written, wrought with emotion and beautiful.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Been a while since I posted a GOTL photo.  Listening to some Italian purity this morning: Fivre 6C5G inputs, sextet of Fivre 6BX7GT outputs.  This setup has just the right balance of lusciousness and detail, I think I will leave this in for a while, very content.
> 
> Listening to singer-songwriter extraordinaire Sufjan Stevens.  If you are into this kind of music, his album _Carrie & Lowell_ is a devastating masterpiece dedicated to the passing of his mother.  In its entirety, has to be one of the saddest albums written, wrought with emotion and beautiful.



Fivre are beautiful sounding tubes. I only have 3 x Fivre 6bx7gt. Never listen to Fivre 6C5G before. In fact never listen to any 6C5G before. Whilst rummaging through my tubes earlier I came across the dual L63 to 6sn7 adapter and my pair of GEC L63. Will have to listen to that again tomorrow.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Fivre are beautiful sounding tubes. I only have 3 x Fivre 6bx7gt. Never listen to Fivre 6C5G before. In fact never listen to any 6C5G before. Whilst rummaging through my tubes earlier I came across the dual L63 to 6sn7 adapter and my pair of GEC L63. Will have to listen to that again tomorrow.



Yes they are, top three tube maker for me with Marconi-Osram and...Mullard, probably.  I searched high and low to make that set of 6BX7, tubes came from Italy, Taiwan, and England...it wasn't cheap, but I am very thankful to have them.

My three favorite 6N7 in the picture above  great sounding tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I am probably crazy for considering it, but the thought has crept into my mind...of replacing the loctal sockets in my GOTL with octal sockets dedicated to 6J5.  I very rarely listen to my pentode tubes and the 6J5/6C5/L63 are #1 for me, would obviously need some guidance from Glenn, but the thought of not having to use the adapter is very appealing.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> My three favorite 6N7 in the picture above  great sounding tubes.



You have the same Fivre 6N7G clear glass, Fivre 6N7G brown base and Visseaux 6N7G? I have a lot of nice sounding drivers so it's hard to consider the 6N7G as the best. They are good but others are just as good if not better. I particularly like the ECC35 and ECC33 as well as the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, also the GEC B36. Hoping to get a pair of ECC32 sometime.

Here's a picture of the Mazda 6N7G with GEC 6as7g. The Mazda or Visseaux 6N7G are the most glowing of all tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am probably crazy for considering it, but the thought has crept into my mind...of replacing the loctal sockets in my GOTL with octal sockets dedicated to 6J5.  I very rarely listen to my pentode tubes and the 6J5/6C5/L63 are #1 for me, would obviously need some guidance from Glenn, but the thought of not having to use the adapter is very appealing.



Do it.  I might get a pair of these to try. Never had any 6J5 before apart from the GEC L63 straight glass.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-6J5GT-...632407?hash=item5b5efc8917:g:B4wAAOSw0rddhH~k


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 21, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> You have the same Fivre 6N7G clear glass, Fivre 6N7G brown base and Visseaux 6N7G? I have a lot of nice sounding drivers so it's hard to consider the 6N7G as the best. They are good but others are just as good if not better. I particularly like the ECC35 and ECC33 as well as the Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, also the GEC B36. Hoping to get a pair of ECC32 sometime.
> 
> Here's a picture of the Mazda 6N7G with GEC 6as7g. The Mazda or Visseaux 6N7G are the most glowing of all tubes.



Yes, I have Fivre 6N7G but in smoked glass brown base, Radiotechnique (Visseaux) 6N7G, and Mullard ECC31.  They are my favorite 6N7 tubes, but not my favorite drivers overall.  The ECC32 is up there for me too, I only own the ECC31 and ECC32, have not heard the 33/35.  The only dual triodes I use now in the GOTL are the Mullard ECC32 and the Fivre/RT/Mullard 6N7G.  My priceless 6SN7 collection is quickly collecting dust in the 6J5 era.

I see your glowy Mazda 6N7G, and raise you the Toshiba 6BX7GT!  These things have the brightest filaments out of any tubes I own, can be seen from space, obviously (a little unfair, since this is a long-exposure photo).  As a bonus, here is my Fivre 6N7G.





UntilThen said:


> Do it.  I might get a pair of these to try. Never had any 6J5 before apart from the GEC L63 straight glass.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-6J5GT-...632407?hash=item5b5efc8917:g:B4wAAOSw0rddhH~k



I probably will, once the thought has entered, it will not go away!  I am sure those are good sounding tubes, I plan to get a pair myself in the future.  @leftside thinks highly of them.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I see your glowy Mazda 6N7G, and raise you the Toshiba 6BX7GT! These things have the brightest filaments out of any tubes I own, can be seen from space, obviously (a little unfair, since this is a long-exposure photo). As a bonus, here is my Fivre 6N7G.



They are very glowing indeed. I should be sleeping now but I've just put on the dual GEC L63 straight glass. Not the best time to analyse the tone but it's very nice. Strangely there's no noise now. There used to be noise in one channel but now it's quiet. I think these will make excellent drivers in any customised amps.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> The adapters are pretty nice because they sit down in the EL3N sockets...this gives them a nice look.
> 
> 
> As far as what sockets to use in you amp would be entirely up to you and what tubes that you want to use.



Thanks Joe!!
So my question to you is: what would be the advantage, if any, to use native EL34 sockets for output tubes?
Don't I have more flexibility by keeping EL3N sockets, so I could use either EL3N or EL34 tubes (with similar adapters)?
I believe the Yamamoto EL3N sockets are considered top notch, so not really worried about long-term socket reliability (I do not intend to tube roll more than once or twice, to compare to EL34 tubes).


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Thanks Joe!!
> So my question to you is: what would be the advantage, if any, to use native EL34 sockets for output tubes?
> Don't I have more flexibility by keeping EL3N sockets, so I could use either EL3N or EL34 tubes (with similar adapters)?
> I believe the Yamamoto EL3N sockets are considered top notch, so not really worried about long-term socket reliability (I do not intend to tube roll more than once or twice, to compare to EL34 tubes).



One thing to keep in mind, whichever tube the amp is built for, that tube will be optimally biased in the amp.  Different tubes use different cathode resistor values to optimize their operating points.  So if the amp is built for EL3N and you put in an EL34 with an adapter, while I am sure it will still sound great, it will not be _optimized_ for EL34.  Now I think both of these tubes use similar value cathode resistors, so the operating points won't be far off and there probably won't be a significant audible difference.  Regardless, whichever tube you think you will be using primarily, use that socket so the amp is optimized for that tube.  If you plan to use adapters either way, they will be much less bulky using the side-contact sockets in the amp and octal adapters from Deyan.  The bigger question is which tube do you want the amp optimized for.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> One thing to keep in mind, *whichever tube the amp is built for, that tube will be optimally biased in the amp.  Different tubes use different cathode resistor values to optimize their operating points.  So if the amp is built for EL3N and you put in an EL34 with an adapter, while I am sure it will still sound great, it will not be optimized for EL34.*  Now I think both of these tubes use similar value cathode resistors, so the operating points won't be far off and there probably won't be a significant audible difference.  Regardless, whichever tube you think you will be using primarily, use that socket so the amp is optimized for that tube.  If you plan to use adapters either way, they will be much less bulky using the side-contact sockets in the amp and octal adapters from Deyan.  The bigger question is which tube do you want the amp optimized for.



EXCELLENT question for the master!
@2359glenn Glenn - would EL34 tubes work (and sound) better in EL34 optimized design? or is the EL3N design fit EL34 tubes as-is with no compromises?
THAT might push me to decide one way or another on the 4 output sockets...


----------



## leftside (Oct 21, 2019)

Yeah can't go wrong with the tubes mentioned on this page. Worth also picking up an ECC35 for a couple of reasons: 1) to compare to other 6SL7's and 2) to get some nice slam! Typical tube rules apply: earlier with black plates and inverted pan getter will cost you the most $, but the good news is the later grey plate with D getter sound great as well. At some point I'll have to try them all again and see if I can hear any differences, but I don't remember hearing too many differences the first time.

A Fivre 6SL7 vs Mullard ECC35 is a worthy battle. I think I might have given the edge to Fivre in this one.

All the 6N7G are wonderful! The ones I have: Fivre, Mazda, Mullard (ECC31). Mordy and others also highly rate the NU. I'll have to pick one up sometime.

And then if you can find them the Fivre 6C5G are outstanding, but don't underestimate the US players. Tungsol, Sylvania, Raytheon 6C5G etc are all really good as well.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am probably crazy for considering it, but the thought has crept into my mind...of replacing the loctal sockets in my GOTL with octal sockets dedicated to 6J5.  I very rarely listen to my pentode tubes and the 6J5/6C5/L63 are #1 for me, would obviously need some guidance from Glenn, but the thought of not having to use the adapter is very appealing.


You want another GOTL or a super GEL3N?


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> tomorrow  I will take a pic.


Did I miss the picture?


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> All the 6N7G are wonderful! The ones I have: Fivre, Mazda, Mullard (ECC31). Mordy and others also highly rate the NU. I'll have to pick one up sometime.



NU 6N7GT is crazy good with outstanding clarity in the mids and deep, tight bass notes.  Highly recommended.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 21, 2019)

attmci said:


> You want another GOTL or a super GEL3N?



My next amp from Glenn will be neither, but more similar to the GEL3N since it will be a SET design.  But no EL3N tubes, the most exciting aspect is it will feature 4V input tubes that have not yet been explored on Head-Fi or very many other places, only in the DIY community from what I can tell.  There are many variations, equivalents and near equivalents, most are pre- or peri- WWII.  They include the following tubes in the family: MH4, MHL4, ML4, CV399, A4110, E424, E428, E424N, PTT100 (with adapter), REN904, K1694.  Very soon I will have a 6.3 to 4V adapter to try these tubes in the GOTL, stay tuned 

Edit: I have a quad of these on its way to me from France.  Not sure if I should listen to them or put them in a museum.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am probably crazy for considering it, but the thought has crept into my mind...of replacing the loctal sockets in my GOTL with octal sockets dedicated to 6J5.  I very rarely listen to my pentode tubes and the 6J5/6C5/L63 are #1 for me, would obviously need some guidance from Glenn, but the thought of not having to use the adapter is very appealing.



Pretty easy actually will have to change the cathode resistor.  Hardest part is making the hole bigger for the octal socket.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Pretty easy actually will have to change the cathode resistor.  Hardest part is making the hole bigger for the octal socket.



Ahh looking at the pictures I took of the inside I see, hadn't anticipated that...would probably use a step drill bit, not ideal doing it on a completed amplifier and there will be a concern for damaging the chassis...was hoping it would be a simple socket switch and resistor change hmm...I'll have to think it over.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ahh looking at the pictures I took of the inside I see, hadn't anticipated that...would probably use a step drill bit, not ideal doing it on a completed amplifier and there will be a concern for damaging the chassis...was hoping it would be a simple socket switch and resistor change hmm...I'll have to think it over.



A "chassis punch" might be less destructive:

https://www.mcmaster.com/chassis-punches


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> One thing to keep in mind, whichever tube the amp is built for, that tube will be optimally biased in the amp.  Different tubes use different cathode resistor values to optimize their operating points.  So if the amp is built for EL3N and you put in an EL34 with an adapter, while I am sure it will still sound great, it will not be _optimized_ for EL34.  Now I think both of these tubes use similar value cathode resistors, so the operating points won't be far off and there probably won't be a significant audible difference.  Regardless, whichever tube you think you will be using primarily, use that socket so the amp is optimized for that tube.  If you plan to use adapters either way, they will be much less bulky using the side-contact sockets in the amp and octal adapters from Deyan.  The bigger question is which tube do you want the amp optimized for.



Besides being optimised for the tube, the less adapters the better. It's pretty common sense really. If you know you'll be using a particular tube predominantly then have the right sockets for it and no need to have another adapter for it.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Yeah can't go wrong with the tubes mentioned on this page. Worth also picking up an ECC35 for a couple of reasons: 1) to compare to other 6SL7's and 2) to get some nice slam! Typical tube rules apply: earlier with black plates and inverted pan getter will cost you the most $, but the good news is the later grey plate with D getter sound great as well. At some point I'll have to try them all again and see if I can hear any differences, but I don't remember hearing too many differences the first time.
> 
> A Fivre 6SL7 vs Mullard ECC35 is a worthy battle. I think I might have given the edge to Fivre in this one.
> 
> ...



From the man who have the most choice tubes.  There's not much more to be said.

Except a burning question for Leftside. Do me a favour and compare ECC31 vs ECC32 and tell me if do sound similar or do they sound like Donkey Kong vs Didi Kong !


----------



## UntilThen

One question K. Do you use the same adapter for 6J5G and 6C5G?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> One question K. Do you use the same adapter for 6J5G and 6C5G?



Yessir, same pinout and specs are very close, they are more or less drop in replacements.


----------



## UntilThen

Continuation from where I left off before going to sleep. Listening to GEC L63 straight glass from Langrex and 6 x GE 6bx7gt. The tone is very agreeable. Very smooth, excellent texture, timbre is nigh perfect and tone of a Robin singing !

I may have to add another 2 sockets for L63 / 6J5 / 6C5 as drivers to my GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yessir, same pinout and specs are very close, they are more or less drop in replacements.



Thank you very much. You just make me come out of retirement from tube rolling. Was speaking to Jack who sold me the GEC 6as7g. He won't sell me his Mullard ECC32 of which he has 2 pairs but he has some 6J5 and 6C5. He also has a pair of NOS Mullard ECC33 for ~$800. 

Ah forget tubes !!! I'll buy a Kawasaki Ninja 250 instead. My wife won't be pleased.


----------



## leftside (Oct 21, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Edit: I have a quad of these on its way to me from France.  Not sure if I should listen to them or put them in a museum.


I know how you feel...



UntilThen said:


> Except a burning question for Leftside. Do me a favour and compare ECC31 vs ECC32 and tell me if do sound similar or do they sound like Donkey Kong vs Didi Kong !


I'm mainly listening to my main speakers and the 300B connected to my turntable at the moment, but when I fire up the WA22 again I'll be sure to do a compare. I don't think I can remember too many differences the last time I compared.



UntilThen said:


> One question K. Do you use the same adapter for 6J5G and 6C5G?


Also works with 6P5 tubes.



UntilThen said:


> I may have to add another 2 sockets for L63 / 6J5 / 6C5 as drivers to my GOTL.


I've wondered if it would be worth just going with 4 sockets for the power tubes, and using the extra sockets for 6J5.


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> I'm mainly listening to my main speakers and the 300B connected to my turntable at the moment, but when I fire up the WA22 again I'll be sure to do a compare. I don't think I can remember too many differences the last time I compared.



When you do get around to it, please select ECC31 and ECC32 that have the same construction and were manufactured at about the same time. This will reveal if there are any sonic differences due to biasing. Again, these tubes are identical except for cathode strapping And while the ECC32 is incorrectly biased in a 6SN7 socket, it just so happens that with an adapter, the ECC31 is in fact correctly biased. Thanks!


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> When you do get around to it, please select ECC31 and ECC32 that have the same construction and were manufactured at about the same time. This will reveal if there are any sonic differences due to biasing. Again, these tubes are identical except for cathode strapping And while the ECC32 is incorrectly biased in a 6SN7 socket, it just so happens that with an adapter, the ECC31 is in fact correctly biased. Thanks!


Well with two requests I'll try and get around to it this week  I have 2 pairs of ECC31:
2 * ECC31 Mullard, black base, black plates, Foil/spade getter, 1028 MBA, smoked grey glass
2 * ECC31 Mullard, black base, black plates, Inverted pan getter, 1029.1 1MP and 1029.1 MV, smoked grey glass

These ECC32's look to be close enough:
2 * ECC32 Mullard, black base, black plates, Foil/spade getter, 1185 MSA, smoked grey glass
1 * ECC32 Mullard, black base, black plates, Inverted pan getter, no date code, smoked grey glass and 1 * ECC32 Mullard, black base, black plates, inverted pan getter, 1185 G9, smoked grey glass


----------



## JazzVinyl

Got the “Western” 12J5’s from Stan today.  Look good and sound good 

.


----------



## Zachik

JazzVinyl said:


> Got the “Western” 12J5’s from Stan today.


Are these the $4 tubes??


----------



## Xcalibur255

chrisdrop said:


> So for example (given my setup, HEXFRED+Lundahl, 13a available):
> 6BX7 amplification factor = 10
> 6x 6BL7 = total amplification factor of 10
> For powers, 1.5 amps * 6 = 9
> ...



Actually the gain is multiplicative, unless one stage is configured to be a follower.  So the 6SN7 + the paralleled 6BX7 give you a gain factor of 200.  I'm really surprised nobody else chimed in on this.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I have some experience with the #46 tube used to make adapters for people to use them in a #45  amp.
> You can ask Tyrell  @Xcalibur255 how they sound in his 45 amp.
> They are a odd tube and can be hooked up in two ways. they seem to sound great to me but you will only get 1 watt out of them.
> 
> Personally I think you should get a good pair of EL34s for the amp good sounding and still in production if the NOS ones run out.



46 tube sounds great.  Better than the 45 in some ways.  The only reason I don't use them all the time is because I'm kind of anti-adapter in general and I could never get a solid feel for how they are supposed to be biased since the data sheet doesn't actually state a maximum plate current for some crazy reason.  Also the pair I have are mega noisy and I never got around to buying another pair.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Zachik said:


> Are these the $4 tubes??



Yes they are!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 21, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Actually the gain is multiplicative, unless one stage is configured to be a follower.  So the 6SN7 + the paralleled 6BX7 give you a gain factor of 200.  I'm really surprised nobody else chimed in on this.



Hello @Xcalibur255,

Your saying 20 mu x 10 mu for 6BX7 = 200 mu total...


----------



## 2359glenn

@Velozity wooden amp with my Verite sounds amazing!!!!
Look simple but has some of the best parts Jupiter coupling capacitors Gold Point stepped attenuater .
I have it running on all Japanese tubes NEC 6AS7 made in Japan 6SN7 not sure by who except for the RCA 3DG4 rectifier
Not the best Pics


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 21, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> @Velozity wooden amp with my Verite sounds amazing!!!!
> Look simple but has some of the best parts Jupiter coupling capacitors Gold Point stepped attenuater .
> I have it running on all Japanese tubes NEC 6AS7 made in Japan 6SN7 not sure by who except for the RCA 3DG4 rectifier
> Not the best Pics



Wow, looks classy as hell, nice Glenn.

BTW I believe that is a Nippon Electric 6SN7 based on the construction, so an all NEC setup (except for the rectifier).


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Wow, looks classy as hell, nice Glenn.
> 
> BTW I believe that is a Nippon Electric 6SN7 based on the construction, so an all NEC setup (except for the rectifier).



I have no Japanese rectifiers.
Could put in a Mullard GZ37  but burning in with the 3DG4 that I will ship with the amp.
I like it clean and simple but sounds as good or better then the best OTL.
Doesn't have all the wiring between the sockets.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> @Velozity wooden amp with my Verite sounds amazing!!!!
> Look simple but has some of the best parts Jupiter coupling capacitors Gold Point stepped attenuater .
> I have it running on all Japanese tubes NEC 6AS7 made in Japan 6SN7 not sure by who except for the RCA 3DG4 rectifier
> Not the best Pics


Hope that wasnt too hard to make,cuz I have a feeling you will be getting a lot more requests for wooden amps. Lovely!


----------



## 2359glenn

Cutting the hole for the IEC power connector with a coping saw by hand was a pain in the neck.
Other wise the same as any other amp had to counter boar behind the volume control the wood is 3/4" thick.
And do some filing will figure a easier way if a bunch gets ordered.
Made one just like it a couple of years ago in a lighter color.


----------



## Velozity (Oct 21, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> @Velozity wooden amp with my Verite sounds amazing!!!!
> Look simple but has some of the best parts Jupiter coupling capacitors Gold Point stepped attenuater .
> I have it running on all Japanese tubes NEC 6AS7 made in Japan 6SN7 not sure by who except for the RCA 3DG4 rectifier
> Not the best Pics





Oh......my.  Thank you!!!


----------



## heliosphann

Giving the Glenn OTL a break today. Listening to the new STP - _Purple_ deluxe reissue.

Pulled this dumpy looking hunk-a-junk off a shelf and decided to give it some love...


----------



## GDuss

2359glenn said:


> @Velozity wooden amp with my Verite sounds amazing!!!!
> Look simple but has some of the best parts Jupiter coupling capacitors Gold Point stepped attenuater .
> I have it running on all Japanese tubes NEC 6AS7 made in Japan 6SN7 not sure by who except for the RCA 3DG4 rectifier
> Not the best Pics



Wow, that's fantastic.



Monsterzero said:


> Hope that wasnt too hard to make,cuz I have a feeling you will be getting a lot more requests for wooden amps. Lovely!



Yeah, if he's not careful, he's going to have to start making amps with every type of wood that ZMF uses for headphones.


----------



## GDuss

heliosphann said:


> Giving the Glenn OTL a break today. Listening to the new STP - _Purple_ deluxe reissue.
> 
> Pulled this dumpy looking hunk-a-junk off a shelf and decided to give it some love...



Imagine the Glenn amp that matches these headphones .


----------



## Xcalibur255

Is that the Hammond chassis Glenn?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> @Velozity wooden amp with my Verite sounds amazing!!!!
> Look simple but has some of the best parts Jupiter coupling capacitors Gold Point stepped attenuater .
> I have it running on all Japanese tubes NEC 6AS7 made in Japan 6SN7 not sure by who except for the RCA 3DG4 rectifier
> Not the best Pics



Glenn I want the same amp in Pheasant Wood to match my Verite. !!!


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Glenn I want the same amp in Pheasant Wood to match my Verite. !!!



Pheasant Wood Berlin


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Pheasant Wood Berlin



Berlin will be in gunmetal grey as well as the transformer housing. It will be in BMW 6 pack matte or gloss coating.

RCA connectors will be in gold, the front knobs will be in polished silver.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 23, 2019)

Zachik said:


> I will consult with @2359glenn
> I'm curious why the strong opposition to EL3N sockets and 4 miniature adapters to EL34 ? Would give me another option...


I personally have a few words against side-contact sockets such as the type  used with EL3N. The first time I had to insert an EL3N tube into an adapter was totally nerve-wracking almost to the point of pushing my sanity over the edge. The only way was to apply force to the *glass* of the tube since it has no base large enough to grasp with your hands - then sort of jostle it until it pops in, and such strong brute force was required that I was afraid of the tube breaking and glass shattering everywhere. Luckily my EL3N's remained intact and I gradually found a better position/method of insertion but still the whole process seems potentially detrimental to the tube, difficult, and is also liable to bend the metal of the socket pins until the tube doesn't light up anymore. So several of us including me had to bend the side contact metal pins with a screwdriver so they still protrude outward far enough to make a connection, and/or wedge a piece of metal in to fill the said gaps in the connection.

Granted this was my experience with Xuling's brass EL3N to 6AS7 adapter but I'd imagine this may apply at least somewhat with other side-contact tube sockets. For me even if I'm using EL3N's I'll be more than happy to use an adapter for those... Just deal with inserting the tube into adapter once and leave it for good, and have nice standard octal sockets for all tubes including on the base of the adapters for those that need one.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'm kind of anti-adapter in general



Me too.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Actually the gain is multiplicative, unless one stage is configured to be a follower.  So the 6SN7 + the paralleled 6BX7 give you a gain factor of 200.  I'm really surprised nobody else chimed in on this.



Never figure out how this works. All I know is 6 x 6bx7gt is like a gale force. It will send shock waves through your brain... in a good way. 

As a way of comparison, GOTL with 2 x GEC L63 and 6 x 6bx7gt sounds as dynamite as the over built Studio Six.


----------



## UntilThen

My 11 x 6bx7s arrived. Quite a few are GE tubes and quite a few are Sylvania. Others are RCA. Very new tubes. Looks NOS to me.


----------



## UntilThen

Trying 6 of the 6bx7gt (Mostly Sylvania and RCA) with 2 x GEC L63 from Langrex. Tubes are ultra quiet. I've been very lucky with all of my NOS 6bx7 and 6BL7. They are all quiet !!! and that's why I love the sextet 6bx7s.

This combination is pretty amazing. 2 years on and I'm still in love with the GOTL.... because of the 6 x 6bx7gt.


----------



## UntilThen

Ken I need your opinion on these 5U4G. Any good? I was told it's from Germany. Looks Russian to me.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Ken I need your opinion on these 5U4G. Any good? I was told it's from Germany. Looks Russian to me.



Those are Russian but still sound pretty good!!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> @Velozity wooden amp with my Verite sounds amazing!!!!
> Look simple but has some of the best parts Jupiter coupling capacitors Gold Point stepped attenuater .
> I have it running on all Japanese tubes NEC 6AS7 made in Japan 6SN7 not sure by who except for the RCA 3DG4 rectifier
> Not the best Pics




Great looking amp Glenn.
Funny how sometimes, less is more.
Congrats to the owner.
Super easy to get a nice quiet back round with this set up.


----------



## 2359glenn

Less is more
Like the EL3N


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Less is more



More is less.


----------



## 2359glenn

Berlin will be nice and simple. But will sound great with those Lundahl transformers.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Berlin will be nice and simple. But will sound great with those Lundahl transformers.



It's in your hands. There's no one I trust more than you in building a specialised headphone tube amp for me. As with GOTL, I basically left it to you and when I saw the first picture that you post of my GOTL on this thread, I was pretty overwhelmed with how it looks ! It's the sound that impressed me even more.

So yes with Berlin, I'm going with the less is more approached. Perhaps go back to what we originally discussed. Use one pair of EL11 as drivers and one pair of EL12 spez as power tubes. Wire to the EL12 spez anode cap to come from the transformer housing and no adapters required. 

I'm inclined to have proper bias and voltage applied to these tubes for optimum effect. So if you think 425 volt to the EL12 spez will produce the best results, then go ahead.  Yes those Lundahl transformers will play a big part with the over all sound. I have no doubt.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> It's in your hands. There's no one I trust more than you in building a specialised headphone tube amp for me. As with GOTL, I basically left it to you and when I saw the first picture that you post of my GOTL on this thread, I was pretty overwhelmed with how it looks ! It's the sound that impressed me even more.
> 
> So yes with Berlin, I'm going with the less is more approached. Perhaps go back to what we originally discussed. Use one pair of EL11 as drivers and one pair of EL12 spez as power tubes. Wire to the EL12 spez anode cap to come from the transformer housing and no adapters required.
> 
> I'm inclined to have proper bias and voltage applied to these tubes for optimum effect. So if you think 425 volt to the EL12 spez will produce the best results, then go ahead.  Yes those Lundahl transformers will play a big part with the over all sound. I have no doubt.




One of the hardest choices on an amp like this is what voltage to run the tubes at.

Class A SET is a pretty simple in design...no need to worry about crossover distortion...they may be always using full power , so maybe not all that efficient...but who cares  
With the tubes that I am going to use...250V may be best...not sure...will also let Glenn decide . 
I believe the data sheet calls for 250V for class A with EL34 and KT66.
Glenn will figure it all out.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> One of the hardest choices on an amp like this is what voltage to run the tubes at.
> 
> Class A SET is a pretty simple in design...no need to worry about crossover distortion...they may be always using full power , so maybe not all that efficient...but who cares
> With the tubes that I am going to use...250V may be best...not sure...will also let Glenn decide .
> ...



Yes I am leaving it to Glenn. If he decides to run it at 250, 375 or 425, then it's up to him. The truth is if he doesn't tell me then I wouldn't know and wouldn't miss anything.  5 watts or 11 watts is really immaterial to me. May not even drive speakers with it.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> One of the hardest choices on an amp like this is what voltage to run the tubes at.
> 
> Class A SET is a pretty simple in design...no need to worry about crossover distortion...they may be always using full power , so maybe not all that efficient...but who cares
> With the tubes that I am going to use...250V may be best...not sure...will also let Glenn decide .
> ...



Tubes and iron  I was looking at some old posts yesterday, it is funny how much more straightforward the wiring of the GEL3N looks compared to the 9 socket GOTL (granted, this is easy for me to say as the guy who doesn't actually do it).

I am on the 250V train, following the datasheets for these tubes.  And as Glenn says, they will last forever!  Feels good considering the cost of a pair of NOS KT66.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Tubes and iron  I was looking at some old posts yesterday, it is funny how much more straightforward the wiring of the GEL3N looks compared to the 9 socket GOTL (granted, this is easy for me to say as the guy who doesn't actually do it).
> 
> I am on the 250V train, following the datasheets for these tubes.  And as Glenn says, they will last forever!  Feels good considering the cost of a pair of NOS KT66.




I hear you brother and I have just sprung for a pair of military NOS KT66 tubes from Langrex
There is a lot of work that goes into an OTL amp with all of those sockets...a lot of chassis cutting...lots of wires...very time consuming I am sure.


----------



## UntilThen

Yup compared to Ulysses.  This is a work of art !


----------



## UntilThen

K when can I see the prototype of Berlin? Or rather the artistic design?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> I hear you brother and I have just sprung for a pair of military NOS KT66 tubes from Langrex
> There is a lot of work that goes into an OTL amp with all of those sockets...a lot of chassis cutting...lots of wires...very time consuming I am sure.



Congrats!  I know the ones, if there are pairs left come January I will be buying the same.

I am seriously considering liquidating my 6SN7 collection to finance some of these tubes.  I am sure I will regret it at some point, but the truth is I don't listen to them anymore...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> K when can I see the prototype of Berlin? Or rather the artistic design?



I have not had time!  Come late November I will be free, I am taking some time off after graduation/between jobs to enjoy the holidays and recharge.  Come January I will be enslaved once again, but a wealthier slave with more free time


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Congrats!  I know the ones, if there are pairs left come January I will be buying the same.
> 
> I am seriously considering liquidating my 6SN7 collection to finance some of these tubes.  I am sure I will regret it at some point, but the truth is I don't listen to them anymore...




I will probably be getting rid of quite a few tubes for the OTL also...some drivers and some powers.
Pretty sure the new amp will get almost all of my head time...I won't need to power speakers with my set-up


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have not had time!  Come late November I will be free, I am taking some time off after graduation/between jobs to enjoy the holidays and recharge.  Come January I will be enslaved once again, but a wealthier slave with more free time



No worries. I'm happy for you. Healthy and financially rewarding work comes first. For me, I'll be here in Canberra much longer. Life's good. Enjoying my work, exercise and more exercise. Going 4 wheel driving this Sat. Started cycling to work and leaving the car at home. My love for tube amps has not waned, likewise my love for my Specialized Roubaix bought in 2010 - still like new ! Rode it today and never felt better.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I will probably be getting rid of quite a few tubes for the OTL also...some drivers and some powers.
> Pretty sure the new amp will get almost all of my head time...I won't need to power speakers with my set-up



I'm overwhelmed by my tubes for GOTL. So many !!! There's no way I could even use them all. Jack wants to sell me KT66 and KT77. Not sure I would need those now. I'm not even buying more 6V6 because I have like 5 pairs of 6V6G and 6V6GT ! and 5 pairs of Mullard and Raytheon OB2 for Studio Six. 

Jack has 6J5 and 6C5 to sell to me. Like I need more tubes !!!


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Well with two requests I'll try and get around to it this week  I have 2 pairs of ECC31:
> 2 * ECC31 Mullard, black base, black plates, Foil/spade getter, 1028 MBA, smoked grey glass
> 2 * ECC31 Mullard, black base, black plates, Inverted pan getter, 1029.1 1MP and 1029.1 MV, smoked grey glass
> 
> ...



My poor man's ECC32  No idea what plates or date of manufacture but I bought it from Langrex. The lettering is still perfect and the tube is in immaculate condition. I got it NOS - unused. This combination is another very quiet combination. It's hard to believe that a 6 x 6bx7gt combination is so quiet. I really love the GOTL despite having Studio Six and WA22.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> My poor man's ECC32  No idea what plates or date of manufacture but I bought it from Langrex. The lettering is still perfect and the tube is in immaculate condition. I got it NOS - unused. This combination is another very quiet combination. It's hard to believe that a 6 x 6bx7gt combination is so quiet. I really love the GOTL despite having Studio Six and WA22.



The construction is different, but I can compare ECC31/32 today and let you know if they sound different.  My ECC31 is an older vintage with a pan getter, whereas my ECC32 are newer with D getter.  Leftside's comparison will be a bit more apples-to-apples.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> The construction is different, but I can compare ECC31/32 today and let you know if they sound different.  My ECC31 is an older vintage with a pan getter, whereas my ECC32 are newer with D getter.  Leftside's comparison will be a bit more apples-to-apples.



Any comparison between ECC31 and ECC32 is good enough for me. What I'm listening to now is so good... I feel the Mullard ECC31 is as good as the Fivre, Mazda 6N7G, just warmer and better texture. Not sure why I don't roll the ECC31 more. It's quiet and sounds like a million bucks. Gibosi reckons the ECC31 with adapter is more correctly bias than the ECC32.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I love these $4.00 "Western" (RCA) 12J5GT's I got from Stan at ESRC.
They are lovely sounding tubes, just right for 'driver triplet' with the EL32's and a six pack of 6BX7's.
Wasn't expecting much from them, but they sound superb!

Highly recommended!!

http://www.esrcvacuumtubes.com/vacuumtubes_tubelist_tubes_12A-12Z5.html


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 22, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Any comparison between ECC31 and ECC32 is good enough for me. What I'm listening to now is so good... I feel the Mullard ECC31 is as good as the Fivre, Mazda 6N7G, just warmer and better texture. Not sure why I don't roll the ECC31 more. It's quiet and sounds like a million bucks. Gibosi reckons the ECC31 with adapter is more correctly bias than the ECC32.



Okay, did some back and forth with the ECC31/32.  Not a full review, just a looking for the differences.  Like I said before, the ECC31 is an earlier model with black plates, inverted pan getter, heat fins on top are parallel with the plates.  The ECC32 is a later build with black plates and D getter, heat fins on top are diagonal relative to the plates.  While both tubes have very similar black plates, ribs on the ECC32 are thinner and you can clearly see welding spots; ribs on ECC31 are thicker, no weld spots.  Both are pre-1955 - no code on the ECC31, but clear from construction; code on ECC32 is "1185 I1", which from my previous reading is September of 1951.




Two points:
-ECC32 has a noticeable edge in soundstage, air, and separation.  The ECC31 is no slouch, but the ECC32 has the largest soundstage and best air of any dual triode tube I have used in the GOTL and the only one that I have heard that can hang with the air of the best 6J5s, in my opinion*
-ECC31 might be ever so slightly darker than the ECC32, but they are 95% the same, tonally

I actually expected them to sound the same, but I do prefer the ECC32 to the ECC31.  ECC31 is an excellent tube and one of my best drivers, but the ECC32 is the best dual triode tube I have for the GOTL.  I do not have the ECC33 or ECC35.  I also have to point out, with no adapter required, it is one of the most attractive tubes in the GOTL.  Obligatory YMMV, IMO, etc. etc.  Again, keep in mind these are slightly different in construction, we'll see if @leftside 's impressions are similar to my own.

Here is the ECC32 in long exposure with the power tube of the month, Nippon Electric 6AS7G, great sounding combo.


----------



## heliosphann

How does the  ECC32 compare to the ECC35 sound wise?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 22, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> How does the  ECC32 compare to the ECC35 sound wise?



Sorry, I don't have the ECC33 or ECC35, meant to say so, just added it.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is the ECC32 in long exposure with the power tube of the month, Nippon Electric 6AS7G, great sounding combo.



ECC32 with RCA 6336A + WE422A. Planar cans night


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Feels good considering the cost of a pair of NOS KT66.





UntilThen said:


> Jack wants to sell me KT66 and KT77.



UT, who is Jack and which which KT66s does he have? I need a pair for my TRP,but as LG said,the pricing for GECs is no joke.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> The construction is different, but I can compare ECC31/32 today and let you know if they sound different.  My ECC31 is an older vintage with a pan getter, whereas my ECC32 are newer with D getter.  Leftside's comparison will be a bit more apples-to-apples.


I actually think your comparison is more relevant as yours in with the GOTL. Mine would have to be with the WA22 or my upcoming custom OTL which is currently being tested/tweaked. I'll still do the comparison, but might wait until the new custom amp arrives, as that just needs one of these driver tubes (like your GOTL's).



JazzVinyl said:


> I love these $4.00 "Western" (RCA) 12J5GT's I got from Stan at ESRC.
> They are lovely sounding tubes, just right for 'driver triplet' with the EL32's and a six pack of 6BX7's.
> Wasn't expecting much from them, but they sound superb!
> 
> ...


I can't wait to try some of these and other 12J5 tubes. 



L0rdGwyn said:


> Okay, did some back and forth with the ECC31/32.  Not a full review, just a looking for the differences.  Like I said before, the ECC31 is an earlier model with black plates, inverted pan getter, heat fins on top are parallel with the plates.  The ECC32 is a later build with black plates and D getter, heat fins on top are diagonal relative to the plates.  While both tubes have very similar black plates, ribs on the ECC32 are thinner and you can clearly see welding spots; ribs on ECC31 are thicker, no weld spots.


Good stuff! My OCD really impacted my wallet when I first went looking for these tubes. Every time I thought I got a matching pair, I noticed a slight difference in construction.... Those parallel vs diagonal heat fins... I mean why not stick to one? Perhaps the designers in the 40's and 50's thought "hey I've got a great idea to mess with the collectors in 70 years time". 



heliosphann said:


> How does the  ECC32 compare to the ECC35 sound wise?


Totally different beasts. The ECC35 is a (or very close to?) 6SL7.


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Never figure out how this works. All I know is 6 x 6bx7gt is like a gale force. It will send shock waves through your brain... in a good way.
> 
> As a way of comparison, GOTL with 2 x GEC L63 and 6 x 6bx7gt sounds as dynamite as the over built Studio Six.



I try to tread lightly on these, so as not to give somebody wrong information.  I am a learner and an amateur like most of us, but I like to explain and share knowledge.  I also figure if I'm mistaken then somebody else will correct and we will all have learned something, so that usually motivates me to say something even if not 100% certain on a subject.  I do need to be pretty certain though otherwise I'm just doing a disservice by attempting to explain.

My stab at trying to explain this a little better:

There are a number of ways to configure gain stages in tubes, and I know more about some than others.  In the case of the 6 x 6BX7 even though you have all those tubes they only represent a single gain stage.  It's similar to the difference between wiring batteries in parallel vs. in series.  Having 3 tubes in parallel allows improves the ability to drive the load by lowering output impedance and increasing the amount of current available, but each additional tube does not add any gain or (mu) in this scenario.  The gain is 10 whether there is single 6BX7 or a dozen when wired in this fashion.  There are others ways this could be configured which would give different results and can result in gain multiplying.  So the 6SN7 starts you out with a gain or (mu) of 20 and the three paralleled 6BX7 on each channel all together multiply this existing value by it's own gain value which is 10, which gives us 20 x 10 = 200.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Out of the entire extended 6SN7 tube family including all the ECCxx, the ECC33 is the best I have ever heard in terms of pure technical performance in the GOTL.  It had the best resolution and the most detail retrieval.  The B65 is the best I have ever heard in terms of tone.  I wouldn't quite call it completely accurate so far as reproducing timbre is concerned, but if you want to ENJOY the music and push the emotional aspect this tube does it better than any other I have heard.  The BGRP Tung Sol sits right in the middle of the two of them in terms of overall presentation but isn't quite as good as either the ECC33 or B65 at the things those tubes do best.  As a compromise though you don't give up much and have a sound that serves a wide range of music well.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

If anyone is in the market for C3g, EL3N, or EL3N to C3g adapters, shoot me a PM.  Operation de-pentode the GOTL is a go.  Taking it a step further (or seven), I am considering widening all socket chassis cut-outs to 30mm and replacing all sockets with Japanese QQQ amphenol sockets.  Could be awesome, could be a disaster, we'll see!


----------



## heliosphann

leftside said:


> Totally different beasts. The ECC35 is a (or very close to?) 6SL7.



Warmer? Bigger soundstage? Other descriptors is what I'm looking for. I quite like the ECC35, just wondering if I should try to acquire a 32.


----------



## felix3650

@UntilThen 
So a new custom amp is in the works for you? What is it? What config/tubes? 

I've been out of the fray for quite a bit and couldn't catch up 2k+ posts lol
My goal still remains the GEL3N to pair with my Auteurs. The GOTL has too many options (not enough time...) and the 300B out of my budget...


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> I actually think your comparison is more relevant as yours in with the GOTL. Mine would have to be with the WA22 or my upcoming custom OTL which is currently being tested/tweaked. I'll still do the comparison, but might wait until the new custom amp arrives, as that just needs one of these driver tubes (like your GOTL's).
> 
> 
> I can't wait to try some of these and other 12J5 tubes.
> ...



Besides comparing ECC31 vs ECC32, could I trouble you to do a comparison and feedback on how these sound in relation to each other. In layman's explanatory words. I know it's hard to describe in words when trying to describe the tone of ECC33 vs ECC35, not to mention the list below that I've given you but hey it's easy compared to what you do in real life. 

1) ECC31 vs ECC32

2) ECC31 vs ECC32 vs ECC33 vs ECC35

3) B65 vs B36

Now combine 2 & 3 and tell us which you like best and why ..... and rank them. 

Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I try to tread lightly on these, so as not to give somebody wrong information.  I am a learner and an amateur like most of us, but I like to explain and share knowledge.  I also figure if I'm mistaken then somebody else will correct and we will all have learned something, so that usually motivates me to say something even if not 100% certain on a subject.  I do need to be pretty certain though otherwise I'm just doing a disservice by attempting to explain.
> 
> My stab at trying to explain this a little better:
> 
> There are a number of ways to configure gain stages in tubes, and I know more about some than others.  In the case of the 6 x 6BX7 even though you have all those tubes they only represent a single gain stage.  It's similar to the difference between wiring batteries in parallel vs. in series.  Having 3 tubes in parallel allows improves the ability to drive the load by lowering output impedance and increasing the amount of current available, but each additional tube does not add any gain or (mu) in this scenario.  The gain is 10 whether there is single 6BX7 or a dozen when wired in this fashion.  There are others ways this could be configured which would give different results and can result in gain multiplying.  So the 6SN7 starts you out with a gain or (mu) of 20 and the three paralleled 6BX7 on each channel all together multiply this existing value by it's own gain value which is 10, which gives us 20 x 10 = 200.



Your posts always attract my attention. Gain of 200 !!!  That must be something. I believe you of course and count yourself as a learner and an amateur. Electronics is not my profession but I happen to stumble on this hobby of tube amps and tubes and love it big time. So what I can learn from this forum.... is the reason I'm still posting and chalking such ridiculous post count... something I'm not proud of but hey who cares. 

Gains of 200 obviously doesn't translate into volume though ... for my ears at least. 6 x 6bx7gt is loud but not extremely loud. In fact I could get corresponding loudness in Studio Six and WA22 but those amps have transformers to do their grunt too. See I'm a novice. I'll speak my mind, hoping others will enlighten me more. 

Thanks for the posts and keep them coming !!!


----------



## heliosphann

UntilThen said:


> Besides comparing ECC31 vs ECC32, could I trouble you to do a comparison and feedback on how these sound in relation to each other. In layman's explanatory words. I know it's hard to describe in words when trying to describe the tone of ECC33 vs ECC35, not to mention the list below that I've given you but hey it's easy compared to what you do in real life.
> 
> 1) ECC31 vs ECC32
> 
> ...



We need pie charts and graphs as well.

Also a video with voice over from Morgan Freeman.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 22, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Besides comparing ECC31 vs ECC32, could I trouble you to do a comparison and feedback on how these sound in relation to each other. In layman's explanatory words. I know it's hard to describe in words when trying to describe the tone of ECC33 vs ECC35, not to mention the list below that I've given you but hey it's easy compared to what you do in real life.
> 
> 1) ECC31 vs ECC32
> 
> ...



I want a written thesis on my desk by 4!  WITH citations.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Out of the entire extended 6SN7 tube family including all the ECCxx, the ECC33 is the best I have ever heard in terms of pure technical performance in the GOTL.  It had the best resolution and the most detail retrieval.  The B65 is the best I have ever heard in terms of tone.  I wouldn't quite call it completely accurate so far as reproducing timbre is concerned, but if you want to ENJOY the music and push the emotional aspect this tube does it better than any other I have heard.  The BGRP Tung Sol sits right in the middle of the two of them in terms of overall presentation but isn't quite as good as either the ECC33 or B65 at the things those tubes do best.  As a compromise though you don't give up much and have a sound that serves a wide range of music well.



This post is even better !!!

This is what I expect to hear from seasoned tube rollers. I need to hear from you what is your favourite tube(s) and in what order and hopefully with a description of their tone why you love them in that ranking. You've just described 3 tubes that I love. Well I don't have B65 but I always imagine the B36 (12 volt version) to be similar sounding. Waiting for Leftside to enlighten and confirm it for me.

Mullard ECC33 and GEC B36 form the quartet of my favourite drivers in GOTL of all time. The other 2 are Mullard ECC35 and Sylvania 6sn7w metal base.

Mullard ECC31 should be in there too ... as is the Tung Sol bgrp but somehow the TS bgrp, good as it is, is a bit behind in the glorious ranking for me. Now I'm about to discover more in the L63, 6J5 and 6C5 but alas the adapter is not as quiet as I hope it would be... might have to get another adapter otherwise my experiment with these tubes is out of the window.


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> We need pie charts and graphs as well.
> 
> Also a video with voice over from Morgan Freeman.



No no no... not Morgan Freeman. We need a sexy female voice commentary like Taylor Swift or Ariane Grande. 

Pie charts and graphs are the least I expect.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> I want a written thesis on my desk by 4!  WITH citations.



You'll make a good manager by the sound of it lol or a total authoritarian.


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> @UntilThen
> So a new custom amp is in the works for you? What is it? What config/tubes?
> 
> I've been out of the fray for quite a bit and couldn't catch up 2k+ posts lol
> My goal still remains the GEL3N to pair with my Auteurs. The GOTL has too many options (not enough time...) and the 300B out of my budget...



Holy cow Felik !!! Where is in the world have you been? The whole thread have been missing you. Miley Cyrus have been pining for you !

2k + posts since you went undercover? Well let's just say it's @L0rdGwyn  and @heliosphann 's fault. They are the main posters or imposters !!! 

My next amp is call Berlin - the band that sings Top Gun's theme song, 'Take My Breathe Away' ! At the expense of being banned for multiple postings, here it is in picture for you, courtesy of @L0rdGwyn and his sister. It will use Telefunken EL11 and Telefunken EL12spez and GEC U52 or Cossor 53ku rectifier or the 596 rectifier that Glenn is still cooking for me.  

and no you can't have Berlin because I have copyright for it and I've bought all the EL11 and EL12 spez tubes that mother earth has.....


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> UT, who is Jack and which which KT66s does he have? I need a pair for my TRP,but as LG said,the pricing for GECs is no joke.



Jack Nicholson !!! You know the guy who says, 'You can't handle the truth' !!! 

It's the name I gave to the new found private seller and no I don't know what KT66 he has yet or what other good tubes he has in 3 big tubs !!!! collected over 20 years !!!!


----------



## UntilThen

I first watch Ariana Grande in 2016 and she has real talent. Watch this.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> Holy cow Felik !!! Where is in the world have you been? The whole thread have been missing you. Miley Cyrus have been pining for you !
> 
> 2k + posts since you went undercover? Well let's just say it's @L0rdGwyn  and @heliosphann 's fault. They are the main posters or imposters !!!
> 
> ...


LOL, seems like you guys are having quite some fun here!
I've been busy with work, traveling across the EU! This is still my favorite thread though (and the ZMFs too). Just can't get enough reading 

So it's an EL3N config but without the EL3N part...hmm interesting. I remember you mentioning the EL11 and EL12 Spez sound really good out of the Super 9 so I can imagine what they would sound if fed by a dedicated config. 

No I'll leave Berlin to you (lol). I'll just settle for (H)EL3N


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Okay, did some back and forth with the ECC31/32.  Not a full review, just a looking for the differences.  Like I said before, the ECC31 is an earlier model with black plates, inverted pan getter, heat fins on top are parallel with the plates.  The ECC32 is a later build with black plates and D getter, heat fins on top are diagonal relative to the plates.  While both tubes have very similar black plates, ribs on the ECC32 are thinner and you can clearly see welding spots; ribs on ECC31 are thicker, no weld spots.  Both are pre-1955 - no code on the ECC31, but clear from construction; code on ECC32 is "1185 I1", which from my previous reading is September of 1951.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wonder if we had a L/R ECC31 adapter (hey @Deyan) - to use two of them separately, if the stage and air would equal the ECC32?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> I wonder if we had a L/R ECC31 adapter (hey @Deyan) - to use two of them separately, if the stage and air would equal the ECC32?



Hmm cannot know for sure.  They are both dual triodes, but perhaps the common cathode of the 6N7G contributes to crosstalk?  I'm sure Deyan could make an experimental adapter


----------



## Deyan

JazzVinyl said:


> I wonder if we had a L/R ECC31 adapter (hey @Deyan) - to use two of them separately, if the stage and air would equal the ECC32?



Won't be much trouble to make.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hmm cannot know for sure.  They are both dual triodes, but perhaps the common cathode of the 6N7G contributes to crosstalk?  I'm sure Deyan could make an experimental adapter



If that's the case you might want to split up ECC32 to get even better soundstage !!! 

So my rationale is that dual ECC31 or dual ECC32 in WA22 will sound better. I don't hear it that way though... with Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp in WA22. It's very good but not better than what I heard of a single TS 6F8G bgrp in GOTL. Similar to my ears apart from the 2 amps' unique sound signature.


----------



## UntilThen

Similarly in the Studio Six. A single 6sn7 does wonders !!! It's in the tube amp's implementation guys. You can't do better splitting double triodes then what the seasoned designers like Glenn and Thomas Martin of Studio Six or Donald North or Craig of EC Studio fame has done with their design. They use a single double triode. If using dual single triode sound better, they would have done so.


----------



## Zachik

DecentLevi said:


> I personally have a few words against side-contact sockets such as the type  used with EL3N. The first time I had to insert an EL3N tube into an adapter was totally nerve-wracking almost to the point of pushing my sanity over the edge. The only way was to apply force to the *glass* of the tube since it has no base large enough to grasp with your hands - then sort of jostle it until it pops in, and such strong brute force was required that I was afraid of the tube breaking and glass shattering everywhere. Luckily my EL3N's remained intact and I gradually found a better position/method of insertion but still the whole process seems potentially detrimental to the tube, difficult, and is also liable to bend the metal of the socket pins until the tube doesn't light up anymore. So several of us including me had to bend the side contact metal pons with a screwdriver so they still protrude outward far enough to make a connection, and/or wedge a piece of metal in to fill the said gaps in the connection.
> 
> Granted this was my experience with Xuling's brass EL3N to 6AS7 adapter but I'd imagine this may apply at least somewhat with other side-contact tube sockets. For me even if I'm using EL3N's I'll be more than happy to use an adapter for those... Just deal with inserting the tube into adapter once and leave it for good, and have nice standard octal sockets for all tubes including on the base of the adapters for those that need one.


Not going to do tube rolling much, and you're the only person ever mention difficulty with EL3N handling...
The best way IMHO to allow for both EL3N and EL34 is to keep the EL3N Yamamoto sockets, and get a few adapters from Deyan for EL34.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 22, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Similarly in the Studio Six. A single 6sn7 does wonders !!! It's in the tube amp's implementation guys. You can't do better splitting double triodes then what the seasoned designers like Glenn and Thomas Martin of Studio Six or Donald North or Craig of EC Studio fame has done with their design. They use a single double triode. If using dual single triode sound better, they would have done so.



Just a theory, not sure if separate glass accounts for the soundstage of the 6J5 or not, could be an unrelated reason.  The ECC32 has a huge soundstage.  But Glenn does use dual single triode in his personal amp  and the GEL3N, and the 300B.

Doesn't matter to me why, but I do prefer the 6J5/12J5, so goodbye loctal sockets!  Pending Glenn's concept approval, I think I am going to parallel the 6J5 sockets to the 6SN7 socket so the filament switch affects them as well, so 12J5 will work too, it will be like having the adapter built into the amp.  Too bad there is no 25J5


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hmm cannot know for sure.  They are both dual triodes, but perhaps the common cathode of the 6N7G contributes to crosstalk?  I'm sure Deyan could make an experimental adapter



Right but you could use both sides of the triodes' on each side L/R


----------



## JazzVinyl

Deyan said:


> RE: L/R ECC31 adapter:   Won't be much trouble to make.



Could also be used as a L/R 6N7 adapter...I will shoot you a PM, Deyan to inquire about a price


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Just a theory, not sure if separate glass accounts for the soundstage of the 6J5 or not, could be an unrelated reason.  The ECC32 has a huge soundstage.  But Glenn does use dual single triode in his personal amp  and the GEL3N, and the 300B.
> 
> Doesn't matter to me why, but I do prefer the 6J5/12J5, so goodbye loctal sockets!  Pending Glenn's concept approval, I think I am going to parallel the 6J5 sockets to the 6SN7 socket so the filament switch affects them as well, so 12J5 will work too, it will be like having the adapter built into the amp.  Too bad there is no 25J5



I have thought about doing the same, LG.  I think I will let you go first...me being the perfect gentleman...and all  

No 25J5, but there is this, 'beam pentode':

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pair-SYL...C6-G-Date-Matched-TESTED-W-TV-7D/182407904071


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Just a theory, not sure if separate glass accounts for the soundstage of the 6J5 or not, could be an unrelated reason.  The ECC32 has a huge soundstage.  But Glenn does use dual single triode in his personal amp  and the GEL3N, and the 300B.
> 
> Doesn't matter to me why, but I do prefer the 6J5/12J5, so goodbye loctal sockets!  Pending Glenn's concept approval, I think I am going to parallel the 6J5 sockets to the 6SN7 socket so the filament switch affects them as well, so 12J5 will work too, it will be like having the adapter built into the amp.  Too bad there is no 25J5




Ha.....I have asked about this option too.
I am gonna use 6/12 SN7 and 6/12  6J5 as driver tubes.......use my best SN7 tubes...mainly all of the Mullards and other favorite SN7 tubes.
Just received a nice pair of Sylvania  6J5GT tubes today, matched date codes grey plates, round plate, cooper rods.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> I have thought about doing the same, LG.  I think I will let you go first...me being the perfect gentleman...and all
> 
> No 25J5, but there is this, 'beam pentode':
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pair-SYL...C6-G-Date-Matched-TESTED-W-TV-7D/182407904071





JazzVinyl said:


> I have thought about doing the same, LG.  I think I will let you go first...me being the perfect gentleman...and all
> 
> No 25J5, but there is this, 'beam pentode':
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pair-SYL...C6-G-Date-Matched-TESTED-W-TV-7D/182407904071




The price sure is nice!


----------



## Xcalibur255

IMO the biggest advantage the 6J5 has going for it is price.  It's just easier to get old desirable versions of them without spending the big bucks that well known 6SN7s command.  I do believe the benefits of keeping each triode in its own glass are probably real but I also think they're probably quite subtle and things such as natural variation from tube to tube can make judging this difficult if not impossible.

If I was wanting an amp with a compact footprint, I would go with a single 6SN7 and not worry about any minor loss in sound quality.  If we're building a Big Bertha, on the other hand, and have room for the extra socket and wider spacing to accomodate ST glass, then getting the best tubes seems like it would easily be hundreds of dollars cheaper going the 6J5 route.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> The price sure is nice!



And they are purdy!!  He sent me a 'private offer at $20.00' - but they are 25C6 beam pentode, not 25C5 (predessor to single triode 6/12J5).

So may not work well or may need another adapter?

Or, could be the "Hail Mary" mother of all tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Xcalibur255 said:


> IMO the biggest advantage the 6J5 has going for it is price.  It's just easier to get old desirable versions of them without spending the big bucks that well known 6SN7s command.  I do believe the benefits of keeping each triode in its own glass are probably real but I also think they're probably quite subtle and things such as natural variation from tube to tube can make judging this difficult if not impossible.
> 
> If I was wanting an amp with a compact footprint, I would go with a single 6SN7 and not worry about any minor loss in sound quality.  If we're building a Big Bertha, on the other hand, and have room for the extra socket and wider spacing to accomodate ST glass, then getting the best tubes seems like it would easily be hundreds of dollars cheaper going the 6J5 route.



Haha, yes and 12J5...is the misers' dream tube  

I am convinced in the 6/12J5's.   I went in very skeptical, but now believe you do get more for less with these drivers. 

I know I know...does not make scientific sense, but individual envelopes does seem to make a difference.  Not an SN7 killer, but it is noticeably beautiful, inside these vacuums....

I have to tear myself away from these $4.00 RCA 12J5's...I don't wanna go do errands, I wanna hear/study one more album!

First 5 seconds yesterday, when I put them in, and fired 'em up, and I knew I had something special...!


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Clearly you all have never heard of the Russian province of ЁйgГдйd.  Very well known for their high-quality vacuum tubes, nothing to see here folks.


It also went through my mind that they could be Russian, but I thought that the well known giveaway of dual inverted saucer getters had been checked already (could not tell from the picture if they are present.)


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Just a theory, not sure if separate glass accounts for the soundstage of the 6J5 or not, could be an unrelated reason.  The ECC32 has a huge soundstage.  But Glenn does use dual single triode in his personal amp  and the GEL3N, and the 300B.
> 
> Doesn't matter to me why, but I do prefer the 6J5/12J5, so goodbye loctal sockets!  Pending Glenn's concept approval, I think I am going to parallel the 6J5 sockets to the 6SN7 socket so the filament switch affects them as well, so 12J5 will work too, it will be like having the adapter built into the amp.  Too bad there is no 25J5



No I don’t think you got what I was trying to point. I have no issues with going L63 or 6J5 or 6C5. In fact I think they look better as drivers instead of a single 6sn7.

I was however querying about you guys idea of splitting the ECC31 by using 2 x ECC31 in an adapter out to 6sn7 which kind of seems strange to me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> No I don’t think you got what I was trying to point. I have no issues with going L63 or 6J5 or 6C5. In fact I think they look better as drivers instead of a single 6sn7.
> 
> I was however querying about you guys idea of splitting the ECC31 by using 2 x ECC31 in an adapter out to 6sn7 which kind of seems strange to me.



One L and one R as in the FA amp.  Could be used for 6N7 too...interesting, to see if this would expand the sound stage with common cathode tubes...?


----------



## leftside

All it would do is burn a hole in your pocket


----------



## UntilThen

It will cost a bomb. One of the advantage of GOTL and Studio Six is the ability to use just one 6sn7. Effectively I only need one ECC31, ECC32, ECC33 and ECC35, B65, B36, etc.


----------



## DecentLevi

GEC B65 and 36... not exactly affordable unless I'm Jeff Bezos. And going towards extinction.
https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=gec+b65

 I think I'll be quite well off with top 6C5 / 6J5 as drivers and with an OTC SET amp perhaps drivers won't be as important as with GOTL


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> No I don’t think you got what I was trying to point. I have no issues with going L63 or 6J5 or 6C5. In fact I think they look better as drivers instead of a single 6sn7.
> 
> I was however querying about you guys idea of splitting the ECC31 by using 2 x ECC31 in an adapter out to 6sn7 which kind of seems strange to me.



Oh my mistake, that is not my project, I am going to great lengths over the next week to use fewer adapters. Only pointed out to JV that Deyan will surely help him if he chooses to pursue it.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 23, 2019)

@UntilThen - HEDD (Heinz ElectroDynamic Designs) speakers apparently are already being showcased in Australia for the first time, at select hi-fi stores in Sydney, Melbourne and Perth time according to this article.
https://www.avhub.com.au/news/hi-fi/hedd-now-in-oz-532542
One of your local hi-fi stores may have the game-changing HEDDphone One after a few months; after the final development phase is complete. If you were to only take one tip from me, I highly recommend to at least give the HEDDphone a try before buying your next headphone. It may even save money. The performance is otherworldly without comparison to anything made to date especially its' being completely unique, having changed my perception of what is possible with audio reproduction and is what I've built my whole upcoming amp around.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi DL, just read the intro on that HEDD headphone. Sound very high tech and interesting and it’s being sold by Addicted To Audio, the store I bought Yggdrasil, Ragnarok, HD800 and LCD-2f from in 2017.

Might check that out when I have the time. I’m not one to be partial to certain brands so yeah I’ll go in with an unbiased mind.


----------



## UntilThen

K, I did like dual GEC L63 a lot in GOTL. Only problem is some noise from either adapter or tubes.

I will get some 6J5 and 6C5 from Jack. Cheap tubes so worth trying out. I wanted to add these drivers to Berlin because I need some ways to tame the Telefunken EL tubes if it became too bright. Still toying with the idea but hate having 4 sockets as drivers and added complexity.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 23, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> GEC B65 and 36... not exactly affordable unless I'm Jeff Bezos. And going towards extinction.
> https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=gec+b65
> 
> I think I'll be quite well off with top 6C5 / 6J5 as drivers and with an OTC SET amp perhaps drivers won't be as important as with GOTL



Unfortunately all the top drivers are getting ridiculously expensive now and near extinction.

Sometime ago Foton 6n8s were lauded as being very good. The thing is very ordinary 6sn7 sounded very good in GOTL but once you hear a ECC35 or ECC33, it’s hard to go back to the Fotons.

6J5 and 6C5 seems to be the flavour of the month now, everyone here is diving in so I will be unbiased and assessed it for myself compared to my top drivers.

Another thing I hear a lot about that these single triodes has great soundstage but I don’t need wider soundstage in HD800 and Verite. A change of headphones might be better.


----------



## UntilThen

I’m wondering why no one thought of using 12au7, 12at7 or 12ax7 as drivers in their new customised amp. These tubes are plentiful and are featured in some well known amps. 

I don’t like tiny tubes though.


----------



## 2359glenn

The 12AU7 and 12AT7 will work fine not the AX7 to much gain and plate current to low.
Some 12AU7s sound really good and quieter then a 6SN7.


----------



## UntilThen

None more famous than the McIntosh 275 using the 12AT7.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 23, 2019)

So many 12au7 and 12at7 from ebay and Langrex.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12AT7-C...057355?hash=item48c6fc200b:g:RNMAAOSw9xldel~W

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12AT7WA...485090?hash=item483a85afa2:g:RckAAOSwGeFdeqCj


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> K, I did like dual GEC L63 a lot in GOTL. Only problem is some noise from either adapter or tubes.
> 
> I will get some 6J5 and 6C5 from Jack. Cheap tubes so worth trying out. I wanted to add these drivers to Berlin because I need some ways to tame the Telefunken EL tubes if it became too bright. Still toying with the idea but hate having 4 sockets as drivers and added complexity.



Very nice, let us know what you find  I have a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter for the GOTL to use some of my little collection.  The best one I have is the Brimar CV4034, actually a flying lead tube so needs to be soldered to a 9-pin base, but very good sounding.  Not as good as the 6SN7s to me, but a nice little tube.  The 12BH7 is another good sounding miniature.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> The 12AU7 and 12AT7 will work fine not the AX7 to much gain and plate current to low.
> Some 12AU7s sound really good and quieter then a 6SN7.



12AU7 is heavenly good in the GOTL.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Very nice, let us know what you find  I have a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter for the GOTL to use some of my little collection.  The best one I have is the Brimar CV4034, actually a flying lead tube so needs to be soldered to a 9-pin base, but very good sounding.  Not as good as the 6SN7s to me, but a nice little tube.  The 12BH7 is another good sounding miniature.



You should try a Mazda ECC804 and the GEC B-729


----------



## leftside

DecentLevi said:


> GEC B65 and 36... not exactly affordable unless I'm Jeff Bezos. And going towards extinction.
> https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=gec+b65
> 
> I think I'll be quite well off with top 6C5 / 6J5 as drivers and with an OTC SET amp perhaps drivers won't be as important as with GOTL


Be patient with the B36. Quite a few appeared fairly recently (within the last year?) from a well known seller on eBay. A bunch of us on here purchased some of them. They are not so rare. The B65 on the other hand...


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 23, 2019)

This trio of B36 came Stavros as a package deal. The GEC B36 was NOS NIB when it came. The Marconi metal base is a nice sounding tube but used. The left foreign made Marconi B36 was long ago established by Gibosi as a Fivre 12SL7 equivalent ... what would I know.  Still not bad sounding the foreign made Marconi B36. All these are 12 volts so I can't use them in Studio Six and WA22, only GOTL.

Got these cheap from Stavros. You wouldn't believe how cheap. Still waiting for him to visit me in Sydney.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 23, 2019)

Please forgive my shameless plug.  These are for sale, will ask for shipping, I will cover Paypal 

Cannot test these in my tester, but they are certified GOTL tested 

Siemens C3g white print (not pictured, just like the C3g-S minus the S) - $50
Siemens C3g-S white print - $60
Siemens C3g embossed - $75
S̶e̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶f̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶P̶h̶i̶l̶i̶p̶s̶ ̶E̶L̶3̶N̶ ̶(̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶s̶l̶i̶g̶h̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶l̶o̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶b̶a̶s̶e̶)̶ ̶-̶ ̶$̶8̶0̶


----------



## UntilThen

K are those in US or AU dollars?  If I had a 300b amp, would have snapped up the c3g(s) but I already have 3 pairs. In the GOTL, c3g with 5998 is an incredible combination. Whilst I like the GEC L63, I wouldn't get rid of my c3g sockets because the EL11 and EL32 sound very good in GOTL and on the odd occasion, c3g and 6 x 6bx7gt can sound staggering too. I'm not so enamoured with the EL3N though.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 23, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> K are those in US or AU dollars?  If I had a 300b amp, would have snapped up the c3g(s) but I already have 3 pairs. In the GOTL, c3g with 5998 is an incredible combination. Whilst I like the GEC L63, I wouldn't get rid of my c3g sockets because the EL11 and EL32 sound very good in GOTL and on the odd occasion, c3g and 6 x 6bx7gt can sound staggering too. I'm not so enamoured with the EL3N though.



They are actually in New Taiwanese dollars  (kidding).  I do really like the C3g and that embossed pair is very pretty, but I have made a decision and I am sticking with it.  I think the EL3N is a synergy tube, it works really well with the Nippon Electric 6AS7G among others.

I will be doing some GOTL surgery next week, some tube sales will in part fund the Goldpoint I will be adding in addition to the new sockets and 6J5 rewire.  May throw in some Jupiter caps in the future but I have enough on my plate as is.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Just a theory, not sure if separate glass accounts for the soundstage of the 6J5 or not, could be an unrelated reason.  The ECC32 has a huge soundstage.  But Glenn does use dual single triode in his personal amp  and the GEL3N, and the 300B.
> 
> Doesn't matter to me why, but I do prefer the 6J5/12J5, so goodbye loctal sockets!  Pending Glenn's concept approval, I think I am going to parallel the 6J5 sockets to the 6SN7 socket so the filament switch affects them as well, so 12J5 will work too, it will be like having the adapter built into the amp.  Too bad there is no 25J5


Don't be too sure. You may find your new headphones like those. LOL


----------



## DecentLevi

@hpamdr  How are you good 'ol friend? You inquired about a possible Glenn amp to me by PM. I told you go for a GEL3N based amp like Berlin or my El Darwin... perhaps a version of mine with sockets for EL34 / KT66 and with adapters EL3N, EL12 etc and 6SN7 series in front but more simplified without all the extra knobs. Feel free to post your thoughts here.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> I will be doing some GOTL surgery next week, some tube sales will in part fund the Goldpoint I will be adding in addition to the new sockets and 6J5 rewire.  May throw in some Jupiter caps in the future but I have enough on my plate as is.



Good luck with the surgery, LG.  
I personally do not feel the "shame" in using adapters, but understand, when you come down with the "got to syndrome"...
We will all be holding our breath!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> Good luck with the surgery, LG.
> I personally do not feel the "shame" in using adapters, but understand, when you come down with the "got to syndrome"...
> We will all be holding our breath!



The only wild card is how enlarging the holes will go, everything else will be easy.  Aluminum is soft and easy to cut with a step bit from my reading, so I think it will be okay  I will be meticulous and careful, as always.  I enjoy these types of hands on projects, the last was my tube tester restoration.  If only I had the knowledge/education, I would build amps myself.  I have not ruled out trying to take this on in the future, but I would need to accept that I would design many crappy ones before even one decent amp came along.  Most important though would be ensuring the proper safety precautions since high voltages are used.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 23, 2019)

I bought my first rectifier for my new amp today.  I was hunting down a MOV U18/20 and found a seller who offered me one at a good price.  I accepted, site unseen, but became uneasy as I had seen Mullard FW4/500 rebranded as MOV U18/20 before, so I asked for a photo to be sure.  Well I was right, it appears to be a early Mullard NU12, Marconi branded.  BUT IT IS SO BEAUTIFUL I BOUGHT IT ANYWAY!  I know the Mullards are not as sought after, but hey, I would have grabbed one eventually and this is a real looker, in perfect condition, and that box....wooooh.  To the museum it goes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 23, 2019)

Some more tubes for your consideration before they hit the classifieds or eBay.

Cetron 6528A - $70 plus shipping
Tung-Sol 6080WB graphite plates - $100 plus shipping


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> The only wild card is how enlarging the holes will go, everything else will be easy.  Aluminum is soft and easy to cut with a step bit from my reading, so I think it will be okay  I will be meticulous and careful, as always.  I enjoy these types of hands on projects, the last was my tube tester restoration.  If only I had the knowledge/education, I would build amps myself.  I have not ruled out trying to take this on in the future, but I would need to accept that I would design many crappy ones before even one decent amp came along.  Most important though would be ensuring the proper safety precautions since high voltages are used.



Watch out for flying alum bits underneath.  Vacuum and maybe even blow it out before powering up again.

Number one safety issue...do not have one hand on the chassis while probing for high voltages with the meter in the other hand.  
Some even suggest  tying the "chassis hand" behind your back while probing.  Want to avoid the high voltage passing through your heart as the "easiest path to ground" (the chassis).

Wonder what Glenn does?   WWGD?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> Watch out for flying alum bits underneath.  Vacuum and maybe even blow it out before powering up again.
> 
> Number one safety issue...do not have one hand on the chassis while probing for high voltages with the meter in the other hand.
> Some even suggest  tying the "chassis hand" behind your back while probing.  Want to avoid the high voltage passing through your heart as the "easiest path to ground" (the chassis).
> ...



Yes, most definitely will blow out/vacuum out the amp before powering on, don't want any shorts.  Glenn is an electrocution junky, so he probably can tolerate 600VDC no problem


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, most definitely will blow out/vacuum out the amp before powering on, don't want any shorts.  Glenn is an electrocution junky, so he probably can tolerate 600VDC no problem



  Yes, puts on his tin foil hat and runs around with a 60 watt incandescent light bulb in his mouth, for fun


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Taiwanese dollars I’ll get the C3g embossed. Is that the one with white box? Is it coming to me by submarine?


----------



## UntilThen

I’ll get the Tung Sol 6080wb too. Hand delivered to me in Australia.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Alright Taiwanese dollars I’ll get the C3g embossed. Is that the one with white box? Is it coming to me by submarine?





UntilThen said:


> I’ll get the Tung Sol 6080wb too. Hand delivered to me in Australia.



Yes, the white box.  When shipping to Australia, I only deliver by carrier pigeon, so one pair of tubes only or I will have to hire more pigeons.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Please forgive my shameless plug.  These are for sale, will ask for shipping, I will cover Paypal
> 
> Cannot test these in my tester, but they are certified GOTL tested
> 
> ...




Great deals here....someone on the thread should snag some of these up.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, the white box.  When shipping to Australia, I only deliver by carrier pigeon, so one pair of tubes only or I will have to hire more pigeons.



All these needs to be delivered by American eagles or Russian vultures. If you send the pigeons I'll shoot them down and make pigeon's soup or you'll get paid in Indira rupees.


----------



## mordy

Hi LG,
Jumped on the 6/12J5 bandwagon. My adapter finally arrived and I plugged in a "near" pair of Sylvania 6J5 tubes. One is a VT-94 with a date code B 4 (February 1944?) and the other is a Sylvania 6J5 from June 1950 (no markings as to what tube it is, but it looks almost identical in construction and the seller said it is a 6J5) .
The VT-94, although being a clear top, has zero tube glow - nothing visible whatsoever, and it stays completely cold. At first I thought it was dead, but it works fine. The 6J5 has two spots with a nice orange glow. Do your Vt-94 tubes behave the same way?
This is the first time I have seen a tube that does not warm up at all in use- even the EL11 gets lukewarm after a while.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> Jumped on the 6/12J5 bandwagon. My adapter finally arrived and I plugged in a "near" pair of Sylvania 6J5 tubes. One is a VT-94 with a date code B 4 (February 1944?) and the other is a Sylvania 6J5 from June 1950 (no markings as to what tube it is, but it looks almost identical in construction and the seller said it is a 6J5) .
> The VT-94, although being a clear top, has zero tube glow - nothing visible whatsoever, and it stays completely cold. At first I thought it was dead, but it works fine. The 6J5 has two spots with a nice orange glow. Do your Vt-94 tubes behave the same way?
> This is the first time I have seen a tube that does not warm up at all in use- even the EL11 gets lukewarm after a while.



Hmmm.  This sounds pretty fishy mordy, can't say that is normal behavior for the 6J5s I have.  I might be concerned that the tube is gassy, the filament is not lighting because the heat is dissipating to the gas?  Is the getter flash intact?  Really odd that it is still making sound.


----------



## DecentLevi

leftside said:


> Be patient with the B36. Quite a few appeared fairly recently (within the last year?) from a well known seller on eBay. A bunch of us on here purchased some of them. They are not so rare. The B65 on the other hand...


Of the GEC B36 and 65, isn't only the 65 compatible with the 6v driver slots of my upcoming amp?


----------



## whirlwind

DecentLevi said:


> Of the GEC B36 and 65, isn't only the 65 compatible with the 6v driver slots of my upcoming amp?




Yes...B65 is 6V and B36 is 12V


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> I’ll get the Tung Sol 6080wb too. Hand delivered to me in Australia.



Specified method of delivery:  swim.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hmmm.  This sounds pretty fishy mordy, can't say that is normal behavior for the 6J5s I have.  I might be concerned that the tube is gassy, the filament is not lighting because the heat is dissipating to the gas?  Is the getter flash intact?  Really odd that it is still making sound.


Hi LG,
Mystery solved - I used triple drivers and that VT-94 tube was not inserted correctly. Embarrassing error; yes, but I am writing about it since maybe somebody will benefit from my mistake. The obvious reason that both channels played is that there were two pentodes doing that job as well.


----------



## JazzVinyl

There is a reason that Glenn chose to include the C3g in the GOTL:




Because they are incredibly fast and dynamic!  

Cheers, to all you "tube wacko's" out there..!!


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> There is a reason that Glenn chose to include the C3g in the GOTL:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok, I have all kinds of questions about this photo.

First, what kind of C3g are those?  They're clear!!!

Second, you're mixing 6BL7s and 6080s?  You can do that?  What are the rules here?  Can you do this with 6BX7s and 5998s?  Can you mix 5998s and 6AS7Gs (like 2 of each)?

Third, you have the 6080s in the middle.  Why not in the back?  Or front?

Fourth, which is related to the third, if you only use 2 driver tubes, does it matter what sockets they go in (front, middle, back)?  I'm assuming you need one in the same left and right socket pair, but can it be any of the 3 pairs?


----------



## heliosphann

GDuss said:


> Ok, I have all kinds of questions about this photo.
> 
> First, what kind of C3g are those?  They're clear!!!
> 
> ...



The C3g's all look like that... Once you get em nekid.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 23, 2019)

GDuss said:


> Ok, I have all kinds of questions about this photo.
> 
> First, what kind of C3g are those?  They're clear!!!
> 
> ...



Hello GDuss!!

1> They are "regular" Seimens C3g's...I removed the tin shields (we call that making them "Naked").  The Glass for C3g is tempered, and that means Fragile!  So removing the shields means being extra careful with handling them.  The glass on there is far less robust than SN7 or BX/BL or 6AS7G, etc...always pull straight UP on C3g to remove them and push straight DOWN to insert them...never "rock" or "roll" side to side...the glass can break at the pins and your sunk (ask me how I know)!

2> Mixing Power types...one very important rule!!  Never exceed 13 amps of heater current for all tubes you have running.  Here I have 4x 6BL7's...1.5 amps of heater current, so 6 amps, 2x 6080 @ 2,5 amps each heater current, so 5 amps and 2x C3g's at about 400 milliamps per, so a little less than 1 amp heater current for both C3g's,  6 + 5 + 1 = 12 amps...this is pretty much max for the GOTL.   Yes you can run 4x 6BX7's and  5998's and an SN7 driver (but always do the math to not exceed 13 amps total for all your running tubular devices).  You don't see it in my photo but the last 2x 6BL7's - I am heating externally because I like to stay WAY under max current...also helps to make the transformer run cooler.  I am an "all day user" of the GOTL, so like to ease the strain.  If you run 2x 5998 and 2x 6AS7G...all want 2.5 amps, total of 10 amps...so do not add a pair of 6BL/BX7's on top of that or you go over 13 amps with a driver in!

3> 6080's are in the middle only because I am externally heating the last two sockets and the power supply I have is good for 4.7 amps.  Two 6BL7's draw 3 amps...good to go.  Two 6080's draw 5 amps...that is above my external heater power supply (4.7 amps) that I am using here.

4> Does not matter where you have them..as you said 3x left bank and 3x right bank...they are all in parallel so the amp sees them all together, as one, placement is not a factor.

I will also say that 6x 6BL7 is a lot of gain and causes me headaches due to the big honkin' gain.  I find that the much lower gain of 6080's brings the overall gain way way down...but the 6BL7's still influence the sound with that gutsy bottom, which I love.

Cheers!


----------



## GDuss

heliosphann said:


> The C3g's all look like that... Once you get em nekid.



Naked tube photos, we need a NSFW warning


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> Naked tube photos, we need a NSFW warning



Tube Porn!


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello GDuss!!
> 
> 1> They are "regular" Seimens C3g's...I removed the tin shields (we call that making them "Naked").  The Glass for C3g is tempered, and that means Fragile!  So removing the shields means being extra careful with handling them.  The glass on there is far less robust than SN7 or BX/BL or 6AS7G, etc...always pull straight UP on C3g to remove them and push straight DOWN to insert them...never "rock" or "roll" side to side...the glass can break at the pins and your sunk (ask me how I know)!
> 
> ...



Thanks for the excellent reply JV.  This is all very helpful.  I'm not likely to go naked on the C3g, given the extra care required.  Plus I like the stealth look with the black covers.

I have heard the 13 amp rule before, so this makes sense.  I guess this is a whole different level of synergy, trying to find what power tubes work best with each other.  The GOTL is a never-ending source of experiments.

Got it on power tube placement.  I know you have the external heater setup, so I see why you chose the placement you did.

First there were naked C3g, now we have the gutsy bottom with the 6BL7, I'm clearly going to need to watch out for who is around when viewing this thread .


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> Thanks for the excellent reply JV.  This is all very helpful.  I'm not likely to go naked on the C3g, given the extra care required.  Plus I like the stealth look with the black covers.
> 
> I have heard the 13 amp rule before, so this makes sense.  I guess this is a whole different level of synergy, trying to find what power tubes work best with each other.  The GOTL is a never-ending source of experiments.
> 
> ...



That's correct sir, not everyone in the family will appreciate a good "Gutsy Bottom"!  Remember that Queen song: "Fat Bottom Girls"?  They make the rockin' world go round, they said!


----------



## Zachik

GDuss said:


> I like the stealth look with the black covers


Ninja tubes!


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> That's correct sir, not everyone in the family will appreciate a good "Gutsy Bottom"!  Remember that Queen song: "Fat Bottom Girls"?  They make the rockin' world go round, they said!



Classic song reference. I had no idea it was about tubes!!!


----------



## GDuss

Zachik said:


> Ninja tubes!



They also have a low radar profile. You don’t even know they are there.


----------



## UntilThen

Jack send me a photo of these tubes he has for me. Any good?


----------



## UntilThen

There's more ..... like I have time to roll them all. 

All NOS.

6c5gt RCA, KenRad, Brimar.
 

Raytheon 6c5gt new
 

CV2932 / 6J5G


----------



## UntilThen

There's more !!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Nice tubes do you have adapters to use them??


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Nice tubes do you have adapters to use them??



The same adapter I use for GEC L63 ? 

He has more..... and KT77, KT66, 6L6.... perhaps have another amp to run L63 / 6J5 / 6C5 and KT77, KT66, 6V6, EL34.... but only after trying the tubes and see if I like them that much to invest in a customised amp to run it.


----------



## UntilThen

VinylSavor showcasing 6J5 tubes.

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2013/03/tube-of-month-6j5.html


----------



## UntilThen

He's late to the 6BX7 and 6BL7 scene. We've snapped it all up. 

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/search/label/6BX7

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/search/label/6BL7


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Jack send me a photo of these tubes he has for me. Any good?



Does he have pairs of all of those, or just the Mullards?


----------



## UntilThen

Today he managed to pull out just those tubes. Pairs of Osram L63 and Mullard 6J5GT. Says he will have to search his other big tubs - haha.


----------



## UntilThen

I think I will go tubeless.... Christmas is around the corner and agents are inviting me for parties, parties and parties. Weekend going 4 wheel drive to the outback. Tennis, badminton and cycling. Like I have 48 hours in a day. And I have to find the time to listen to music.... what the fish do I have 3 amps for ? Don't even have time to listen to one.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Today he managed to pull out just those tubes. Pairs of Osram L63 and Mullard 6J5GT. Says he will have to search his other big tubs - haha.



Okay I will take the Mullards and smoked L63 then, thanks!


----------



## whirlwind

I have bought a few sets of 6J5GT tubes .

I love that a lot of 6J5GT tubes have round black plates and copper rods.

I will use them in my new amp and hope they are quiet.....nice that these tubes are plentiful.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Okay I will take the Mullards and smoked L63 then, thanks!



Ok start swimming and don't stop for pictures. I'll be waiting for you at the Harbour Bridge Sydney with them Mullard and Osram. 


 

Not even if you meet this halfway.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Ok start swimming and don't stop for pictures. I'll be waiting for you at the Harbour Bridge Sydney with them Mullard and Osram.
> 
> 
> 
> Not even if you meet this halfway.



On my way!


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> On my way!



I've never seen such tubes dedication from someone before !!! Hats off to you. I'm lost for words.


----------



## UntilThen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Specified method of delivery:  swim.



How did you know he's swimming... eh riding a dolphin or rather shark.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> I have bought a few sets of 6J5GT tubes .
> 
> I love that a lot of 6J5GT tubes have round black plates and copper rods.
> 
> I will use them in my new amp and hope they are quiet.....nice that these tubes are plentiful.



Nice, Joe.  There is a lot of variety, and the American tubes are still cheap, only the European versions demand high prices.  Sylvania and Tung-Sol 6/12J5 are probably some of the best deals in tube audio.



UntilThen said:


> I've never seen such tubes dedication from someone before !!! Hats off to you. I'm lost for words.



One can only be speechless when faced with such selfless fortitude.  I do not do it for myself, but for tube rollers everywhere.


----------



## UntilThen

A typical day at the 'office'. WA22, Studio Six, Yggdrasil and GOTL all powered on. With Verite Open, this is heaven ..... but I'm thinking come 2020, I'll sell them all and start again with:-

Berlin - EL11 and EL12 spez

Sydney - L63 / 6J5 / 6C5 with EL34, KT66, KT77 and 6V6.


----------



## UntilThen

6J5 and 6C5 are very cheap tubes. Are you sure they are any good?


----------



## UntilThen

Ok I was very impressed listening to dual GEC L63 straight glass from Langrex and 6 x RCA 6BX7gt.

Now I'll replace the dual GEC L63 with GEC B36. I will listen again to these drivers and will report if I hear any difference in tone, texture, timbre and soundstage.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Ok I was very impressed listening to dual GEC L63 straight glass from Langrex and 6 x RCA 6BX7gt.
> 
> Now I'll replace the dual GEC L63 with GEC B36. I will listen again to these drivers and will report if I hear any difference in tone, texture, timbre and soundstage.



Keep in mind these two tubes have different construction.  The older B36 have plates more similar to the shouldered gray glass MOV L63, the clear straight glass L63 have a squished T-plate.


----------



## UntilThen

First the pictures so you can see how close in constructions they are.  The difference here is the L63 glass is longer and the bottom mica of the L63 is rectangular while B36 is more square. The rest of the construction are more similar than dissimilar. 

This is the GEC B36 (12 volts) that I'm using.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> First the pictures so you can see how close in constructions they are.  The difference here is the L63 glass is longer and the bottom mica of the L63 is rectangular while B36 is more square. The rest of the construction are more similar than dissimilar.
> 
> This is the GEC B36 (12 volts) that I'm using.



Ooo I thought you might be using your fancy metal base B36.  This is a perfect comparison!  Same plates.


----------



## UntilThen

Now the sound difference if any......

I had to listen twice on each driver just to make sure. Remember I have to power down, wait a few minute before change of drivers and then power up again.

Using the same song, same Yggy, same Verite Open, same cables, same ears... 

Nope no difference at all. Not even an iota of difference. The similarity in tone is so alike that I was shocked and is a testament of the GEC L63 incredible value. You won't be able to find this GEC B36 again or very unlikely but you can buy 2 x GEC L63 from Langrex for GBP 38.5 each.

With 6 x RCA + Sylvania 6BX7gt, these drivers are punchy, full of impact, clarity and the bass is astounding. Bass is heavier than ECC33. I can't fault the soundstage here because Yggy and Verite are known to have very good soundstage. In summary, I could listen to these tubes combination every day and not be sick of it.

It's not bright that's for sure. Not neutral too. Just a touch of warm. Texture is great. Tone is exemplary. Clarity and details are outstanding... no surprise here with the aid of Yggy and Verite and the great tube amp tone of GOTL.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ooo I thought you might be using your fancy metal base B36.  This is a perfect comparison!  Same plates.



That's right. This is the first time I closely examine the L63 and B36 constructions and they are near identical. Incredible !

Now if you want me to compare the L63 with the Marconi B36 metal base..... I quit !!!!!!!! I'm going back to my real life profession and leave any more comparisons to you and the folks here. 
Well maybe tomorrow when I'm more rested I might compared with the Marconi B36... gawd .... I just want to listen to music. 

..... and do not ask me to compare with the Marconi B36 foreign made !!! I'll be on strike !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Having come this far, I had to listen to the Marconi B36 metal base, straight after the dual GEC L63. Incredibly even though the tube is much older and used, the sound is better. Better in the sense that instruments separation is clearly heard, pitch is finely edged. There are no smearing of tone. This is great definition and precision. It's like the tone is tighter and tauter. I like it this way.

and I found an old photo from Gibosi running the same Marconi B36 with Cossor 53ku and pair of Tung Sol 5998. This combination ought to be really good.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow I don't believe it. There is one... Osram B36 metal base
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/B36-12S...a=1&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109

and several Marconi B36 brown base similar to my GEC B36.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/B36-12S...m56b2c97c0c:g:H-4AAOSwic5bR4~q&frcectupt=true

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/B36-12S...399799&hash=item56b2d57d59:g:bkIAAOSw3GVbR46I

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Marconi...227471?hash=item3654a3618f:g:DNUAAOSwXitb-pRL


Folks remember this is 12 volts so unless your amp can output 12 volts, then this is not for you. You need a GOTL with the 6 or 12 or 25 volts switch.


----------



## heliosphann

Anyone know where I can get a few Tung Sol 6BX7's??? I managed to round up 4, but I'm looking to put together a sextet. There's a few on Ebay, but they're overpriced.


----------



## chrisdrop

@JazzVinyl has some 6BX7's. They will not be TS's probably, but he can put together a set for you I believe. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-6x-6bx7s-tested-in-the-gotl.916651/#post-15234306


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> There's more !!!


Buy them all. I have most of those. There was a pair of Ken-Rad 6C5G on eBay last week for about $25. Well worth getting (and the TungSol and Raytheon). 



UntilThen said:


> Wow I don't believe it. There is one... Osram B36 metal base
> 
> Folks remember this is 12 volts so unless your amp can output 12 volts, then this is not for you. You need a GOTL with the 6 or 12 or 25 volts switch.


I don't think they are that rare? Same guy had a bunch for sale last year. Prices seem about right.

Would be interesting to compare the coke bottle GEC L63/6J5 with the metal base B36.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 24, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Anyone know where I can get a few Tung Sol 6BX7's??? I managed to round up 4, but I'm looking to put together a sextet. There's a few on Ebay, but they're overpriced.



Yes,  I have a few sets of 6x that have been tested to be happy in the GOTL.  But mine are GE or GE re-brands, not Tung-Sol.  If there are any marked Tung-Sol, look like GE re-brands to me.

Do the Tung-Sols sound different/better?


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Buy them all. I have most of those. There was a pair of Ken-Rad 6C5G on eBay last week for about $25. Well worth getting (and the TungSol and Raytheon).
> 
> 
> I don't think they are that rare? Same guy had a bunch for sale last year. Prices seem about right.
> ...



Which sounds the best to your ears, LS?


----------



## heliosphann

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes,  I have a few sets of 6x that have been tested to be happy in the GOTL.  But mine are GE or GE re-brands, not Tung-Sol.  If there are any marked Tung-Sol, look like GE re-brands to me.
> 
> Do the Tung-Sols sound different/better?



Not sure, I'll have to compare them to my GE's. If they are really re-brands then I won't go out of my way to get a set of 6. Maybe @gibosi can chime in?


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Which sounds the best to your ears, LS?


GEC L63/6J5 early coke bottle. Clarity/details/imaging as best I've heard (with the WA22 - but might be different with the GOTL). B65 has a unique sound that I haven't heard from any other tube - "addictive and absorbing" is the best I can describe them, but I don't want to use mine anymore as 1) They are too expensive and 2) Becoming impossible to replace, which is why I want an amp with the 12 volt switch to be able to use the B36. But, the Raytheons, Tungsol, RCA, 6J5/6C5 etc aren't far behind and I really like using the RCA sometimes if I need to add a little warmth to a bright recording.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 24, 2019)

leftside said:


> Buy them all. I have most of those. There was a pair of Ken-Rad 6C5G on eBay last week for about $25. Well worth getting (and the TungSol and Raytheon).
> 
> 
> I don't think they are that rare? Same guy had a bunch for sale last year. Prices seem about right.
> ...



I thought the B36 brown base are rare. They are rare but not rare rare.  The metal base B36 are rare though and seem to fetch a higher price.

Yeah unfortunately for my own sanity, I'd have to buy a coke bottle GEC L63 to compare with the B36 metal base. I always thought the GEC L63 coke bottle is lusher and with more bloom than the straight bottle GEC L63 but from your description it doesn't seem to be so.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Buy them all. I have most of those. There was a pair of Ken-Rad 6C5G on eBay last week for about $25. Well worth getting (and the TungSol and Raytheon).



Jack says that quite a few have different brands but the constructions are the same, so I might get some coke bottle 6J5G and 6C5G of Ken Rad, Brimar, RCA and combine them if he can't pull out matching brands.


----------



## UntilThen

heliosphann said:


> Anyone know where I can get a few Tung Sol 6BX7's??? I managed to round up 4, but I'm looking to put together a sextet. There's a few on Ebay, but they're overpriced.



I see no harm in combining brands. I'm running the new batch of Sylvania and RCA 6bx7gt together and I hear it as a coherent whole.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 24, 2019)

heliosphann said:


> Not sure, I'll have to compare them to my GE's. If they are really re-brands then I won't go out of my way to get a set of 6. Maybe @gibosi can chime in?



I do have *one* Tung-Sol 6BX7 that does not have the tell tale sandblasted tube designation...

All of my CBS and Raytheon's (and some RCA) have the sandblasted lettering, so GE.
There are some side getter RCA's and coin base RCA's that GE didn't make.
There are three mica Sylvania that are distinct in construction. 
Some GE's have a D getter, some a halo getter.  I have only noticed a slight sonic difference in the 'real' RCA's?


----------



## gibosi

heliosphann said:


> Not sure, I'll have to compare them to my GE's. If they are really re-brands then I won't go out of my way to get a set of 6. Maybe @gibosi can chime in?



Yes, Tung-Sol 6BX7 sound different than GE. And since TS didn't begin to manufacture the 6BX7 until around 1960, all 6BX7 carrying the TS brand before that time were manufactured by GE and to a lesser degree Sylvania.

See the following link for construction details useful for identification purposes.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1797#post-14993262


----------



## gibosi

heliosphann said:


> Anyone know where I can get a few Tung Sol 6BX7's??? I managed to round up 4, but I'm looking to put together a sextet. There's a few on Ebay, but they're overpriced.



TS are not nearly as plentiful as RCA, Sylvania and GE, and finding four or six in one listing is rare. My strategy has been to buy them one or two at a time. And yes, they are oven overpriced, so you will likely have to be patient.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Yes, Tung-Sol 6BX7 sound different than GE. And since TS didn't begin to manufacture the 6BX7 until around 1960, all 6BX7 carrying the TS brand before that time were manufactured by GE and to a lesser degree Sylvania.
> 
> See the following link for construction details useful for identification purposes.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1797#post-14993262


I believe that I had seen foil getter   6bx or 6bl before which sounds pretty good. Could be wrong.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> TS are not nearly as plentiful as RCA, Sylvania and GE, and finding four or six in one listing is rare. My strategy has been to buy them one or two at a time. And yes, they are oven overpriced, so you will likely have to be patient.



@heliosphann - I only have the one "USA 3" found one more TS, has 15M and is three mica, D getter like the Sylvania's..


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> *GEC L63/6J5 early coke bottle. Clarity/details/imaging as best I've heard* (with the WA22 - but might be different with the GOTL). B65 has a unique sound that I haven't heard from any other tube - "addictive and absorbing" is the best I can describe them, but I don't want to use mine anymore as 1) They are too expensive and 2) Becoming impossible to replace, which is why I want an amp with the 12 volt switch to be able to use the B36. But, the Raytheons, Tungsol, RCA, 6J5/6C5 etc aren't far behind and I really like using the RCA sometimes if I need to add a little warmth to a bright recording.



Hmmm, that's what I'm hearing now with the Marconi B36 metal base. Looks like I have to buy a buy of this. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1MP-6J5...720001?hash=item2f355c8a01:g:jQsAAOSwmrJdV~KY

but this pair of metal base GEC L63 straight glass... not sure how this will sound. Do you have these?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/One-pai...372341?hash=item261f07f4b5:g:HVkAAOSwmpJc~yAg


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> TS are not nearly as plentiful as RCA, Sylvania and GE, and finding four or six in one listing is rare. My strategy has been to buy them one or two at a time. And yes, they are *oven overpriced*, so you will likely have to be patient.



Haha ! Ken, I agree with you 100% that they are oven baked overpriced !!! In fact all the good tubes in which we are chasing are oven overpriced. I think they are way over BBQed.


----------



## OctavianH

The deal of the century, jump on them while they are hot:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/a1834-tu...-Amplifier-CURVED-BASE-6080-6AS7/254398814404

By the way, soon I'll buy a house by selling my tubes if these are the current prices.


----------



## UntilThen

Ha this is supposed to be a L63 6J5 replacement bit with a nipple. Anyone tried these?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Match-1...778667?hash=item3ab1202b6b:g:sOYAAOSwEetV-NFt


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Haha ! Ken, I agree with you 100% that they are oven baked overpriced !!! In fact all the good tubes in which we are chasing are oven overpriced. I think they are way over BBQed.



ahaha... I guess my typo is more accurate than I thought....


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> The deal of the century, jump on them while they are hot:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/a1834-tu...-Amplifier-CURVED-BASE-6080-6AS7/254398814404
> 
> By the way, soon I'll buy a house by selling my tubes if these are the current prices.



In his dreams !!! Trying to sell a pair of GEC 6as7g for US $1500....

I got one for AUD $200 and it's NOS unused. Now I hope Jack managed to pull out another under his bed, under his house, inside his dog's kennel?


----------



## UntilThen

K, buy this ! In time to come they will become overpriced ! 

I think I will get one for cycling.


----------



## UntilThen

Omg Mordy, this Osram B65 single has reached a bid price of AUD $550 with 2 days to go. One tube !!!
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/B65-OSR...a=1&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109

And the seller says...

*TAKE A NOTICE: THOSE TUBES ARE AS RARE AS CHOOKS’ TEETH!*

The tube has a production date code of *GK 4*, where according to GEC / Osram coding system it was made in *November 1951*, in *MO Valve Co. Springvale*.


----------



## UntilThen

Listening to these tubes combination now although this picture was taken about 1.5 years ago. Not sure why I haven't use the Marconi B36 metal base since then. It sounds better than Madonna. 

Glenn Super 9 OTL amp has been a success for me and I'm sure to all of you who subsequently go on to get one. I will always remember that fateful Sunday when Glenn pop into my 'own' Feliks Audio thread and started talking to me about GOTL. In an instance, I told him yes I would want one made. Christmas 2017 was really special because my GOTL arrived 2 weeks before Christmas. I waited less than 2 months for my GOTL !!! Now Christmas 2019 is around the corner. It's time for a commemoration. 

I think I will ask Glenn to replace all the sockets with Yamamoto's sockets and drill 2 extra holes for L63 / 6J5 / 6C5  So 5 sockets for drivers lol.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Hmmm, that's what I'm hearing now with the Marconi B36 metal base. Looks like I have to buy a buy of this. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1MP-6J5...720001?hash=item2f355c8a01:g:jQsAAOSwmrJdV~KY
> 
> but this pair of metal base GEC L63 straight glass... not sure how this will sound. Do you have these?
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/One-pai...372341?hash=item261f07f4b5:g:HVkAAOSwmpJc~yAg


Yes, I have the L63 metal base, but I only have 2, so cannot try them with the WA22. And I'm certainly not paying that price.

Those are nice looking tubes from the Indian seller. I have those, and I'd argue they are the finest 6J5G/L63. I also have them with Marconi and GEC stickers, but they have the same construction.


----------



## UntilThen

Tomorrow I'll be exploring the Snowy Mountains regions with my friends in a 4 wheel drive. Will be leaving all my tube addictions behind. It's time for a detox.


----------



## mordy

Here is another GEC L63 replacement:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1MP-CV6-DE...d-plate-England-Made-2964009-A-B/192811147243







Look at them copper rods....


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Here is another GEC L63 replacement:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1MP-CV6-DE...d-plate-England-Made-2964009-A-B/192811147243



That is so cute and affordable. I need to try a pair. Urghhh tubes again !!!  Nah I'll go to Tumut NSW first tomorrow - the gateway to the Snowy River region. I'll worry about tubes when I get back.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Here is another GEC L63 replacement:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1MP-CV6-DE...d-plate-England-Made-2964009-A-B/192811147243
> 
> 
> ...



Even considering the adapter needed, a much better price.  I have read that you do *NOT* want to mix up the two external cap wires!!   Careful now...


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> GEC L63/6J5 early coke bottle. Clarity/details/imaging as best I've heard (with the WA22 - but might be different with the GOTL). B65 has a unique sound that I haven't heard from any other tube - "addictive and absorbing" is the best I can describe them, but I don't want to use mine anymore as 1) They are too expensive and 2) Becoming impossible to replace, which is why I want an amp with the 12 volt switch to be able to use the B36. But, the Raytheons, Tungsol, RCA, 6J5/6C5 etc aren't far behind and I really like using the RCA sometimes if I need to add a little warmth to a bright recording.



I thought I was one of the few people who like RCA tubes....when ever one needs warmth...look no further


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I thought I was one of the few people who like RCA tubes....when ever one needs warmth...look no further



I like RCA's too, for the same reason.  Have my RCA 12J5's in now


----------



## mordy

One pair of (lowly) RCA 6080 have a permanent (at least for now) home in my GOTL together with a pair of Raytheon  graphite plates 6080WB. Warmth + punch......


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Came home to some seriously old tubes today.  These boxes smell like old card stock record jackets you find at the thrift store.  We have gone all in on these tubes @2359glenn hope they sound as good as they look!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> One pair of (lowly) RCA 6080 have a permanent (at least for now) home in my GOTL together with a pair of Raytheon  graphite plates 6080WB. Warmth + punch......



I have a"lowly" pair of 6080's too, and a pair of RCA 6AS7G's...both deserve more respect than they get  - agree!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 24, 2019)

On the subject of Tung-Sol 6BX7 and RCA...

I have full sets each 6BX7 except for Sylvania, haven't added them since I have flat- and T-plate 6BL7.  To me, the Tung-Sols are good not great.  They certainly don't sound _bad_, none of the 6BX7 do, they are all great tubes, but the Tung-Sols have a noticeably smaller soundstage and less airiness than some of the other 6BX7 which is a high priority for me when listening.

I have said it before, I think the RCA clear-top side-getter 6BX7 is a better buy, cheaper and easier to make a set, but I haven't seen a lot of people using them.  Maybe I became biased against the Tung-Sols early and haven't been able to shake it, but they have never blown me away.  I have gone back several times, saying to myself "oh, maybe I didn't give them a fair shake, let's give it another go", and every time I come away with the same impression.  Just did some RCA and Tung-Sol swapping before writing this, nothing I heard to change my mind, the RCAs sound better to me.  More space, airiness, slightly warmer than the Tung-Sols.

Just my opinion, YMMV!


----------



## UntilThen

You should have heard my Fivre and Los Gatos 6bx7gt. It’s the beginning of nirvana.


----------



## heliosphann

gibosi said:


> Yes, Tung-Sol 6BX7 sound different than GE. And since TS didn't begin to manufacture the 6BX7 until around 1960, all 6BX7 carrying the TS brand before that time were manufactured by GE and to a lesser degree Sylvania.
> 
> See the following link for construction details useful for identification purposes.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1797#post-14993262



Thanks. I think mine are possibly later GE rebrands? However they are way different than the early GE 6XB7's I have. They do have sandblasted markings on them and no writing on top. I think they're grey plates (hard to tell in the light I have), halo getter and they have 9 teeth on sides of the bottom mica and 7 on the top.


----------



## mordy

heliosphann said:


> Thanks. I think mine are possibly later GE rebrands? However they are way different than the early GE 6XB7's I have. They do have sandblasted markings on them and no writing on top. I think they're grey plates (hard to tell in the light I have), halo getter and they have 9 teeth on sides of the bottom mica and 7 on the top.


Any 6BX7 tube with the sandblasted dots is made by GE, regardless of brand printed on the tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Any 6BX7 tube with the sandblasted dots is made by GE, regardless of brand printed on the tube.



Unless they are 'special issue, Red Base", then they are *GE*_c_...


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Unless they are 'special issue, Red Base", then they are *GE*_c_...


Sorry - any red base 6BX/BL7 tube with sand blasted dots is made by GE.
But I have seen sellers who purposely misstate made by GEC regarding GE made tubes.


----------



## gibosi

heliosphann said:


> Thanks. I think mine are possibly later GE rebrands? However they are way different than the early GE 6XB7's I have. They do have sandblasted markings on them and no writing on top. I think they're grey plates (hard to tell in the light I have), halo getter and they have 9 teeth on sides of the bottom mica and 7 on the top.



As Mordy points out, any 6BX7 with sandblasted name and dots was manufactured by GE, irregardless of the brand. 

From your experience it seems that the earlier ones with black plates sound different than the later ones with gray plates. I have a bunch of early GE, dated 1953, but I don't have any of the later ones with gray plates, so I am not in a position to compare them.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 25, 2019)

I saw the recent ideas for 6J5 replacements. The GEC 10/CV6 didn't tickle my fancy because I discovered it's 7193 class which I dismissed a few years ago as being inferior to 6J5 (this one could be different than the Ken-Rad 7193's I used to own though).

But the Marconi / GEC MHLD6 with one top cap looks quite interesting, especially since I found this deal even cheaper, also from a trusted seller:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/113783273779


I think I'll take a chance on two of these if @Deyan can make an adapter for two of these in a 6SN7 slot? Radiomuseum says it's a double-diode triode developed by Marconi-Osram for audio applications in the military.
However I wasn't 100% sure if it's interchangeable for 6J5, aside from _this_ eBay listing saying that it is in the title. Searching yielded no confirmation if these are compatible.


----------



## Deyan

DecentLevi said:


> I saw the recent ideas for 6J5 replacements. The GEC 10/CV6 didn't tickle my fancy because I discovered it's 7193 class which I dismissed a few years ago as being inferior to 6J5 (this one could be different than the Ken-Rad 7193's I used to own though).
> 
> But the Marconi / GEC MHLD6 with one top cap looks quite interesting, especially since I found this deal even cheaper, also from a trusted seller:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/113783273779
> ...




The MHDL6 is equivalent to DL63 not L63 / 6J5


----------



## DecentLevi

Thanks, but would it still be compatible in the 6SN7 slot if you made a dual MHDL6 adapter?


----------



## Deyan

Well the adapter is not a problem. Glenn can say if the tube is compatible or not.


----------



## attmci

Deyan said:


> Well the adapter is not a problem. Glenn can say if the tube is compatible or not.


Dan Can switch any pins as you wish.


----------



## UntilThen

@lukeap69  it sure took a while but there is a winner. Don't know why I didn't hear it earlier but it's as clear as day now. This in no way makes the other 2 poor choices. In fact, GOTL and Woo Audio Wa22 performed so well that I was astounded.... but ultimately Studio Six is not just an amp. It's a statement amp, over built, quietest of any tube amps I've heard, fast and speedy unlike the 300b Woo Audio WA5. Mid range is king on Studio Six. Initially I thought it's the bass, which is awesome, hard hitting and full of impact but the mid range clarity nails it.

I know, I know. I didn't expound on the qualities of the GOTL and WA22, both are really pleasure machines. Really good but it's the Studio Six that I pick as the best of the 3.  Unfortunately in this comparison, I disregard price. It's strictly an evaluation on SQ and which sounds best to my ears. I don't even consider looks.

Studio Six is still being sold btw. 

Next chapter will be Berlin but in the meantime, I'm off to bed again so I can go to the Snowy River in 8 hours time. 

Have a lovely weekend everyone.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> @lukeap69  it sure took a while but there is a winner. Don't know why I didn't hear it earlier but it's as clear as day now. This in no way makes the other 2 poor choices. In fact, GOTL and Woo Audio Wa22 performed so well that I was astounded.... but ultimately Studio Six is not just an amp. It's a statement amp, over built, quietest of any tube amps I've heard, fast and speedy unlike the 300b Woo Audio WA5. Mid range is king on Studio Six. Initially I thought it's the bass, which is awesome, hard hitting and full of impact but the mid range clarity nails it.
> 
> I know, I know. I didn't expound on the qualities of the GOTL and WA22, both are really pleasure machines. Really good but it's the Studio Six that I pick as the best of the 3.  Unfortunately in this comparison, I disregard price. It's strictly an evaluation on SQ and which sounds best to my ears. I don't even consider looks.
> 
> ...



Let me be the first to say that I am happy to have the 2nd place amp (please tell me it's not 3rd place; poor GOTL if it's in 3rd place on its home field thread).  At this level, we are probably splitting hairs among the options, so GOTL is still a top-ranked pleasure machine.
I know I asked you for a tie-breaker recently and I am glad you based your decision on something other than who had the better looking sockets .


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> Let me be the first to say that I am happy to have the 2nd place amp (please tell me it's not 3rd place; poor GOTL if it's in 3rd place on its home field thread).  At this level, we are probably splitting hairs among the options, so GOTL is still a top-ranked pleasure machine.
> I know I asked you for a tie-breaker recently and I am glad you based your decision on something other than who had the better looking sockets .


One thing is sure - nobody beats the GOTL for price/performance; the Studio Six costs $3900 and the WA22 $2499.
I am extremely happy with my 9 socket GOTL and have no desire to look for something else - the tube rolling possibilities are almost endless.
Exploring 6J5 family tubes ATM - great and inexpensive thrills. I have some ten tubes coming in that all cost less than $4 each shipped. 
My approach is to buy inexpensive lots of used/new tubes and listen without any preconceived bias. Here and there you can find real gems and sometimes relatively unknown over achievers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Studio Six costs 3x the price I paid for my GOTL.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> One thing is sure - nobody beats the GOTL for price/performance; the Studio Six costs $3900 and the WA22 $2499.
> I am extremely happy with my 9 socket GOTL and have no desire to look for something else - the tube rolling possibilities are almost endless.
> Exploring 6J5 family tubes ATM - great and inexpensive thrills. I have some ten tubes coming in that all cost less than $4 each shipped.
> My approach is to buy inexpensive lots of used/new tubes and listen without any preconceived bias. Here and there you can find real gems and sometimes relatively unknown over achievers.



Totally agree. I like the endless experiments possible on the GOTL.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> One thing is sure - nobody beats the GOTL for price/performance; the Studio Six costs $3900 and the WA22 $2499.
> I am extremely happy with my 9 socket GOTL and have no desire to look for something else - the tube rolling possibilities are almost endless.
> Exploring 6J5 family tubes ATM - great and inexpensive thrills. I have some ten tubes coming in that all cost less than $4 each shipped.
> My approach is to buy inexpensive lots of used/new tubes and listen without any preconceived bias. Here and there you can find real gems and sometimes relatively unknown over achievers.




Nothing beats Glenns amps for the bang for the buck.....a $750 OTL from Glenn has to be one of the best deals anywhere.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> @lukeap69  it sure took a while but there is a winner. Don't know why I didn't hear it earlier but it's as clear as day now. This in no way makes the other 2 poor choices. In fact, GOTL and Woo Audio Wa22 performed so well that I was astounded.... but ultimately Studio Six is not just an amp. It's a statement amp, over built, quietest of any tube amps I've heard, fast and speedy unlike the 300b Woo Audio WA5. Mid range is king on Studio Six. Initially I thought it's the bass, which is awesome, hard hitting and full of impact but the mid range clarity nails it.
> 
> I know, I know. I didn't expound on the qualities of the GOTL and WA22, both are really pleasure machines. Really good but it's the Studio Six that I pick as the best of the 3.  Unfortunately in this comparison, I disregard price. It's strictly an evaluation on SQ and which sounds best to my ears. I don't even consider looks.
> 
> ...



Hi Matt.

I knew the Studil Six will come out as the winner. I have read nothing but good thing about this amp although I have not heard it myself. Thanks for the comparison. We all know the value of GOTL and it is one of the best amps regardless of price. The fact that it took you a while to select the winner says something about the quality of the GOTL. Enjoy your three great amps.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Let me be the first to say that I am happy to have the 2nd place amp (please tell me it's not 3rd place; poor GOTL if it's in 3rd place on its home field thread).  At this level, we are probably splitting hairs among the options, so GOTL is still a top-ranked pleasure machine.
> I know I asked you for a tie-breaker recently and I am glad you based your decision on something other than who had the better looking sockets .



Hi Guss, here I have to be impartial. If I'm biased then all my impressions goes out the window or down the drain.  So devoid of any emotional ties, whether this is reported here or anywhere else, 2nd place in the very unfair comparison goes to GOTL and not by a whisker. GOTL was clearly my 2nd choice but that does not make the WA22 a poor choice. WA22 has continued to astound me since it's arrival and I learn that the WA22 midrange is the most prominent than in any other tube amps I've heard. Initially that is a draw card but after several weeks, that is actually a demerit for the lovely sounding WA22 - not by much it's still a gorgeous sounding amp.

Now onto GOTL, it has earned my respect even more. Up until this point, I've always preferred GOTL to the other amps I've heard or owned. I even have a preference of the GOTL over the slower, lusher and wonderfully textured Woo Audio WA5LE that was sporting the Takatsuki 300b and Brimar CV1988 and EML mesh plates rectifiers. GOTL driving my Verite Open is like Starky and Hutch - they are a wonderful pairing. Downright desert island setup and with Yggdrasil, I dare say it's a end game setup. 

So coming to the finishing line of the famous Monaco Grand Prix, it's Studio Six, GOTL and Woo Audio WA22 screaming past the flag.


 

That's Starsky and Hutch and I'll leave you to decide which is Verite, GOTL and Yggdrasil.


----------



## DecentLevi

DecentLevi said:


> I saw the recent ideas for 6J5 replacements. The GEC 10/CV6 didn't tickle my fancy because I discovered it's 7193 class which I dismissed a few years ago as being inferior to 6J5 (this one could be different than the Ken-Rad 7193's I used to own though).
> 
> But the Marconi / GEC MHLD6 with one top cap looks quite interesting, especially since I found this deal even cheaper, also from a trusted seller:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/113783273779
> ...





Deyan said:


> Well the adapter is not a problem. Glenn can say if the tube is compatible or not.


@2359glenn Do you say this tube is compatible? And we would need an adapter with two in the 6SN7 slot, right?


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Hi Guss, here I have to be impartial. If I'm biased then all my impressions goes out the window or down the drain.  So devoid of any emotional ties, whether this is reported here or anywhere else, 2nd place in the very unfair comparison goes to GOTL and not by a whisker. GOTL was clearly my 2nd choice but that does not make the WA22 a poor choice. WA22 has continued to astound me since it's arrival and I learn that the WA22 midrange is the most prominent than in any other tube amps I've heard. Initially that is a draw card but after several weeks, that is actually a demerit for the lovely sounding WA22 - not by much it's still a gorgeous sounding amp.
> 
> Now onto GOTL, it has earned my respect even more. Up until this point, I've always preferred GOTL to the other amps I've heard or owned. I even have a preference of the GOTL over the slower, lusher and wonderfully textured Woo Audio WA5LE that was sporting the Takatsuki 300b and Brimar CV1988 and EML mesh plates rectifiers. GOTL driving my Verite Open is like Starky and Hutch - they are a wonderful pairing. Downright desert island setup and with Yggdrasil, I dare say it's a end game setup.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the thoughtful reply, and details on the photo finish of the Grand Prix.  Not having heard the other 2 amps, I feel like I can place the GOTL in context with them, and am still happy with the silver medal.

I will remain silent on my thoughts for who is who in your Starsky and Hutch photo .


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Hi Matt.
> 
> I knew the *Studil Six* will come out as the winner. I have read nothing but good thing about this amp although I have not heard it myself. Thanks for the comparison. We all know the value of GOTL and it is one of the best amps regardless of price. The fact that it took you a while to select the winner says something about the quality of the GOTL. Enjoy your three great amps.



Arnold, I've not heard a Studil Six before. Maybe it's Berlin in disguise. ?

Sure took me a while and at the finishing line the amps were sporting these tubes:-

*Studio Six*
Mullard ECC33
Philips ECG 6V6g blue lettering
Mullard OB2
Mullard GZ34 Blackburn

*GOTL*
Marconi B36 metal base
RCA and Sylvania 6 x 6bx7gt

*WA22*
Tung Sol 6F8G black glass round plates - Art brand
Tung Sol 5998 green lettering - NOS pair but done more than 50+ hours now
Cossor 53ku


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> I will remain silent on my thoughts for who is who in your Starsky and Hutch photo .



You have to make an informed choice ! No indecisions here. Now take out your scientific instruments and your years of neuroscience training and examine the photo again. I want the truth as Tom Cruise said. Just don't tell me what Jack Nicholson said.


----------



## UntilThen

Anyway I'm off on my adventure. If I'm not back by sundown, you have my report on the 3 amps already.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> Totally agree. I like the endless experiments possible on the GOTL.



I enjoy being able to tailor the sound according to my wants, needs, mood


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> @2359glenn Do you say this tube is compatible? And we would need an adapter with two in the 6SN7 slot, right?



It will work just hook the diode plates to the cathode and use them as shields.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> You have to make an informed choice ! No indecisions here. Now take out your scientific instruments and your years of neuroscience training and examine the photo again. I want the truth as Tom Cruise said. Just don't tell me what Jack Nicholson said.



I need more data to make any conclusions.  And I can only test the GOTL.  Send me your Verite and Yggy so I can do some experiments, then I will report back.  

In the meantime, I think Verite is the beauty in that trio, so we have a basis for a hypothesis.


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> I need more data to make any conclusions.  And I can only test the GOTL.  Send me your Verite and Yggy so I can do some experiments, then I will report back.
> 
> In the meantime, I think Verite is the beauty in that trio, so we have a basis for a hypothesis.



Anymore data and I'll be forever banned from Head-Fi. 

Ok you have to come to Australia to see and hear the trio.


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> I enjoy being able to tailor the sound according to my wants, needs, mood



So GOTL is perfect for moody people.  Wasn't Hutch the moody one?


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> Ok you have to come to Australia to see and hear the trio.



Have those carrier pigeons left @L0rdGwyn yet?


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> Have those carrier pigeons left @L0rdGwyn yet?



The last I know K left bare bodied riding a shark. No news from him yet. Eaten by orcas?


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> The last I know K left bare bodied riding a shark. No news from him yet. Eaten by orcas?



We haven't heard from him, maybe you're right, he didn't survive the shark ride.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> One thing is sure - nobody beats the GOTL for price/performance; the Studio Six costs $3900 and the WA22 $2499.
> I am extremely happy with my 9 socket GOTL and have no desire to look for something else - the tube rolling possibilities are almost endless.
> Exploring 6J5 family tubes ATM - great and inexpensive thrills. I have some ten tubes coming in that all cost less than $4 each shipped.
> My approach is to buy inexpensive lots of used/new tubes and listen without any preconceived bias. Here and there you can find real gems and sometimes relatively unknown over achievers.


Mordy, the wa22 was 1900 before plus 10-15% blackfriday promotion.


----------



## Velozity

I just paid the final invoice for my wooden GOTL and I just have to share.  I finally get to be on the playground with the rest of you guys!  My anticipation level is at extreme right now!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Velozity said:


> I just paid the final invoice for my wooden GOTL and I just have to share.  I finally get to be on the playground with the rest of you guys!  My anticipation level is at extreme right now!



Big Congrats!  Know your excited!!  Hurry up and get here, GOTL


----------



## gibosi

There is a book listed on eBay that might be of interest to some here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/British-Ra...ars-1904-1925-Keith-Thrower-1999/223684748457

British Radio Valves- The Vintage Years: 1904-1925 - Keith Thrower (1999)

However, given that the tubes covered in this book were manufactured around 100 years ago, it is likely that few if any are suitable for use in any of Glenn's existing amps. But maybe in a future amp?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 26, 2019)

GDuss said:


> Have those carrier pigeons left @L0rdGwyn yet?



They are striking, again.  Benefits this, fair wages that...you can never satisfy a pigeon.  I have moved on to personal shark delivery. 



UntilThen said:


> The last I know K left bare bodied riding a shark. No news from him yet. Eaten by orcas?



Making my way due south in the Philippine sea, made a pit stop in Tokyo to grab these sockets.  With these genetically enhanced great whites, should make it back to Cleveland by late morning tomorrow to perform my GOTL surgery.


----------



## UntilThen

To Brindabella


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Arnold, I've not heard a Studil Six before. Maybe it's Berlin in disguise. ?



Haha! Apologies for the typo. This is what you get when reading forum after midnight and few bottles of Peroni and Corona with friends.


----------



## felix3650

Seems like the GEL3N would be on par with the Studio Six then


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Surgery is going well thus far.  This is going to take a long, long time.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Surgery is going well thus far.  This is going to take a long, long time.



Good Luck I will answer any questions you may have.


----------



## 2359glenn

felix3650 said:


> Seems like the GEL3N would be on par with the Studio Six then



With Lundahl transformers for outputs it will sound much better.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Surgery is going well thus far.  This is going to take a long, long time.




Building one of these OTL amps will all of the sockets has got to be a long process.
Glenn does it for the love of building them ...he definitely sells his amps way too cheap.

Thanks for everything Glenn   

Keenan, make sure you get the amp blowed out good...blow....then blow again, lol.
Those dark sockets will look good on your amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Surgery is going well thus far.  This is going to take a long, long time.



Yes it will not sure if you will have to drill and tap the 6-32 screw holes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Good Luck I will answer any questions you may have.



Thanks Glenn.  Here is what all nine will eventually look like:


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Building one of these OTL amps will all of the sockets has got to be a long process.
> Glenn does it for the love of building them ...he definitely sells his amps way too cheap.
> 
> Thanks for everything Glenn
> ...



Oh yeah, as you can see, lots of cling wrap lol it will be blown and vacuumed several times.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks Glenn.  Here is what all nine will eventually look like:



I guess the screw holes lined up.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> I guess the screw holes lined up.



Yeah they did, I checked beforehand.  One down!  Honestly the slowest part is desoldering everything.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Was playing with RCA 6336A power tubes during the week for my planar cans on GOTL. Didn't really hit the spot.

Rolled in a pair of Centron 6336B this evening to compare...

 

I have 2 pairs of these tubes, they are incredibly new looking and super quiet even on warm up. 

Decided to stick with the WE-422A for these beasts, and started with the Brimar 25sn7 driver. Mids are brought forward vs how my usual tube roll for the Verite plays with the HEKSE, but the GOTL is singing with the headphones. Gonna try rolling drivers over the weekend to see what I like best.


----------



## chrisdrop

UsoppNoKami said:


> Was playing with RCA 6336A power tubes during the week for my planar cans on GOTL. Didn't really hit the spot.
> 
> Rolled in a pair of Centron 6336B this evening to compare...
> 
> ...



Hey @UsoppNoKami, I have been meaning to ask this question and your pic prompted; are you using socket-savers? Most other pics seem not to be I think? For all you long-time Glenn rollers, what is the zeitgeist on socket-savers? Pros, cons, issues, etc? 

On another note; 1 week into my amp... Just started using a new DIY power cable in after a week of testing in other uses. I am happy to say; it reduced some noise. Currently the most quiet I have heard yet; Verite Closed Ironwood + 12SN7 Tung Sol round plate (I _think_ from the 1940s) + 4x Brimar 6080s. Quiet and lovely.  Thanks again @2359glenn for making great amps. 

_*Thanks @teknorob23 for the help on the cable! Head-fiers are some of the nicest, most helpful people on the planet, even if we egg each other into expenditure oblivion!_

 

(This post brought to you by Koda)

https://tidal.com/browse/track/27542087


----------



## gibosi

UsoppNoKami said:


> Was playing with RCA 6336A power tubes during the week for my planar cans on GOTL. Didn't really hit the spot.
> 
> Rolled in a pair of Centron 6336B this evening to compare...



To the best of my knowledge, RCA didn't make the 6336. Of the American manufacturers, I believe only Raytheon and Chatham (which was purchased by Tung-Sol which was purchased by Cetron) made them. So I suspect that your RCAs are in fact Raytheon, and it appears that you prefer Cetron, as do I.


----------



## gibosi

chrisdrop said:


> For all you long-time Glenn rollers, what is the zeitgeist on socket-savers? Pros, cons, issues, etc?



I don't use them and after four years, or so, my sockets are still as good as new.


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> Hey @UsoppNoKami, I have been meaning to ask this question and your pic prompted; are you using socket-savers? Most other pics seem not to be I think? For all you long-time Glenn rollers, what is the zeitgeist on socket-savers? Pros, cons, issues, etc?
> 
> On another note; 1 week into my amp... Just started using a new DIY power cable in after a week of testing in other uses. I am happy to say; it reduced some noise. Currently the most quiet I have heard yet; Verite Closed Ironwood + 12SN7 Tung Sol round plate (I _think_ from the 1940s) + 4x Brimar 6080s. Quiet and lovely.  Thanks again @2359glenn for making great amps.
> 
> ...




If you are going to do allot of tube rolling it is a good idea to use socket savers. I would get high quality ones if you can everything in the signal chain degrades
the sound. Minor with socket savers and they are worth not wearing out your sockets.
That is a good tube lineup you have there and four 6080s will have the same power as the 6336 and might sound better.
Glad you are liking your new amp

Glenn


----------



## UsoppNoKami

gibosi said:


> To the best of my knowledge, RCA didn't make the 6336. Of the American manufacturers, I believe only Raytheon and Chatham (which was purchased by Tung-Sol which was purchased by Cetron) made them. So I suspect that your RCAs are in fact Raytheon, and it appears that you prefer Cetron, as do I.



Cool, thanks for the info mate


----------



## UsoppNoKami

2359glenn said:


> If you are going to do allot of tube rolling it is a good idea to use socket savers. I would get high quality ones if you can everything in the signal chain degrades
> the sound. Minor with socket savers and they are worth not wearing out your sockets.
> That is a good tube lineup you have there and four 6080s will have the same power as the 6336 and might sound better.
> Glad you are liking your new amp
> ...



@chrisdrop the master has spoken


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Hey @UsoppNoKami, I have been meaning to ask this question and your pic prompted; are you using socket-savers? Most other pics seem not to be I think? For all you long-time Glenn rollers, what is the zeitgeist on socket-savers? Pros, cons, issues, etc?
> 
> On another note; 1 week into my amp... Just started using a new DIY power cable in after a week of testing in other uses. I am happy to say; it reduced some noise. Currently the most quiet I have heard yet; Verite Closed Ironwood + 12SN7 Tung Sol round plate (I _think_ from the 1940s) + 4x Brimar 6080s. Quiet and lovely.  Thanks again @2359glenn for making great amps.
> 
> ...




This looks great Chris, much better than the precarious perch you had the amp on before .

One question though, the Atlas of Human Anatomy and Surgery?  Some light reading while you listen to music?


----------



## GDuss

UsoppNoKami said:


> @chrisdrop the master has spoken



He sure has!!!  I wasn't worried about the sockets, but now I may have to rethink it.


----------



## chrisdrop

GDuss said:


> One question though, the Atlas of Human Anatomy and Surgery? Some light reading while you listen to music?



LOL. Nice catch. My wife is an artist and that is one of her *many* books on the the bod . 2 books off shot to the left is this one of mine, more my speed ! https://xkcd.com/thing-explainer/

FWIW the sketch behind my amp is not one of by my wife. it is one from; https://www.instagram.com/originalmisstrix/?hl=en

On socket-savers, regarding "good ones", I think I recall @UntilThen saying something about gold-plated socket savers from xulingmrs. Are those "good ones" ?


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> LOL. Nice catch. My wife is an artist and that is one of her *many* books on the the bod . 2 books off shot to the left is this one of mine, more my speed ! https://xkcd.com/thing-explainer/
> 
> FWIW the sketch behind my amp is not one of by my wife. it is one from; https://www.instagram.com/originalmisstrix/?hl=en
> 
> On socket-savers, regarding "good ones", I think I recall @UntilThen saying something about gold-plated socket savers from xulingmrs. Are those "good ones" ?



Got it.  Body art is always interesting.  There are lots of people doing cool things with brain/neuron/synapse images these days, like this guy:

http://www.gregadunn.com/

We have some of his work on the walls in the building where my office and lab are.

I'm not sure if the socket savers from Mrs. Xu are the best options or not.  Others likely have more input on that than I do.


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> Seems like the GEL3N would be on par with the Studio Six then



Berlin will certainly be up to that task. I expect better things from it having heard the EL11 and EL12 spez and with Lundahl transformers, it will great ! If I didn't think Berlin will sound better than Studio Six, I would have aborted the plan.

Meanwhile just back from a day in the Brindabella Forest, I'm exhausted having covered more than 400 kms. What amazing scenery.

Then I saw Jack's message and my jaw drop.... Looks like I need an amp using GEC L63 coke bottle, Mullard 6J5GT metal base with Mullard KT66 smoke glass, Philips Miniwatt KT66 clear glass, GEC KT77 and GEC KT88. Now I don't know whether to progress with this first or Berlin !!!

Photos yesterday's outing.


----------



## UntilThen

chrisdrop said:


> On socket-savers, regarding "good ones", I think I recall @UntilThen saying something about gold-plated socket savers from xulingmrs. Are those "good ones" ?



Yes.

These are my magnificent 7 from xulingmrs, a socket maker that I'll dealt with for a long time. I like what she does a lot and I can heartily recommend her products. She has done some custom sockets for me in the past. I was the one who contacted her to make the first iteration of EL32 and EL11 to c3g sockets long before even Deyan make them.... if you have been following the thread you'll know the history. These sockets still works but has no guide pins.

Problem is I don't use my socket savers anymore. I've gone commando. Also I hardly change my 6 x 6bx7gt. They are there kind of permanently.


----------



## UntilThen

In an executive decision, I've decided that 2020 will be the year of Berlin, using Telefunken EL11 as drivers and Telefunken EL12 spez as power tubes.

2021 will be the year of Sydney, using GEC L63 coke bottle, straight bottle, Osram L63 straight bottle, Mullard 6J5GT metal base, Ken Rad, Brimar and RCA 6C5G, 6J5G coke bottle and Mullard KT66 smoke glass *quad*, Philips Miniwatt KT66 clear glass *quad*, GEC KT88 clear glass *quad*, GEC KT77 *quad*. 

2022 will be the year of Godzilla - Glenn's 300b amp. 

2023 I retire from the world of tube amps sword fighting. I'll hang up my sword. 

So Berlin, Sydney and Godzilla ..... by then Studio Six would be ousted and I will end my foray in Head-Fi with 3 of Glenn's finest amps and they will all use Lundahl's transformers.


----------



## UntilThen

My tube amps addiction is summed up in these 2 pictures. Just change pedals to headphone tube amps.


----------



## UntilThen

BUT forget about tube amps for today because me and my mates are going to the Oktoberfest Canberra. This will get me more excited than any tubes or tube amps.


----------



## UntilThen

Now @UsoppNoKami  did you say Canberra is boring? You ain't see Canberra as I've seen it. 

Glenn you should have been here right now. We could have gone to Oktoberfest together !!!


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Now @UsoppNoKami  did you say Canberra is boring? You ain't see Canberra as I've seen it.
> 
> Glenn you should have been here right now. We could have gone to Oktoberfest together !!!



The last good October fest I have been to was in Germany.
Had a great time all the younger people wanted to practice there English with me.
Blonds Beer and Sausage my kind of party.


----------



## UntilThen

This morning I woke up and listen to music with exclusively Yggdrasil, GOTL and Verite Open. GOTL is still sporting Marconi B36 metal base and Sylvania and RCA 6 x 6bx7gt. I was again stunned by what I heard !!!

Tone, timbre and texture. What do I mean by that? See this https://www.musical-u.com/learn/whats-the-difference-between-tone-timbre-and-texture/

In GOTL, I love the 3 Ts !!!

So in another executive decision, I have decided that Studio Six and WA22 will go after the New Year fireworks !!!

I'm going to be left with strictly Glenn's tube amps. Something I didn't plan all along. Remember I had even put down a deposit for a DNA Stratus, only to cancel it 8 months later. That's karma !!!

Now I will possibly be left with GOTL, Berlin, Sydney and Godzilla. How did I not see this coming?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The last good October fest I have been to was in Germany.
> Had a great time all the younger people wanted to practice there English with me.
> *Blonds Beer and Sausage my kind of party*.



You're my kind of guy !!!  That's what I love too. 

It's a strange co-incidence. We're the same age !!!


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> You're my kind of guy !!!  That's what I love too.
> 
> It's a strange co-incidence. We're the same age !!!



Your that old I thought you were younger then me.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Well, I did it.

After nearly 12 hours, I finished.  Hit some bumps along the way, like having to use my Dremel to widen the mounting holes of my octal sockets since the C3g holes in the chassis were 3-4mm wider.  Also had to move and remove components so my stepped drill bit didn't destroy them while widening the 6SN7 socket.  And I ran out of soldering wick and had to run to Microcenter...wow it has been a long day.


   

But here is the payoff: where there were C3g sockets, there are now switchable 6/12J5 sockets.  Even better than my old adapter, pin 1 of the sockets is now connected to the ground bus, so the external and internal shields of my 6J5 and 6C5 tubes are functional.  It is DEAD quiet.

Man I love how the shouldered 6J5 look in the amp, thought this combo would show it off well, Tung-Sol 6J5G and Tung-Sol 5998.

Goldpoint is on the way


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> This morning I woke up and listen to music with exclusively Yggdrasil, GOTL and Verite Open. GOTL is still sporting Marconi B36 metal base and Sylvania and RCA 6 x 6bx7gt. I was again stunned by what I heard !!!
> 
> Tone, timbre and texture. What do I mean by that? See this https://www.musical-u.com/learn/whats-the-difference-between-tone-timbre-and-texture/
> 
> ...



I will have to see if I can get a wooden chassis big enough for the Berlin.  Kinda neat with the ZMF headphones.
At least this will make them look different.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Your that old I thought you were younger then me.



Excuse moi.... you should have said 'you're as young as me !!!' 

Didn't I say I have a son and daughter that are already working and buying me Father's day presents? I love them more than anything but now I don't have to support them anymore, instead they are giving me presents.


----------



## 2359glenn (Oct 26, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well, I did it.
> 
> After nearly 12 hours, I finished.  Hit some bumps along the way, like having to use my Dremel to widen the mounting holes of my octal sockets since the C3g holes in the chassis were 3-4mm wider.  Also had to move and remove components so my stepped drill bit didn't destroy them while widening the 6SN7 socket.  And I ran out of soldering wick and had to run to Microcenter...wow it has been a long day.
> 
> ...



Wow you finished it in one day great.
And looks great too.
Looks original that 6SN7 socket had to be a PITA to replace.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I will have to see if I can get a wooden chassis big enough for the Berlin.  Kinda neat with the ZMF headphones.
> At least this will make them look different.



Wooden chassis for Berlin? Good lord.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well, I did it.
> 
> After nearly 12 hours, I finished.  Hit some bumps along the way, like having to use my Dremel to widen the mounting holes of my octal sockets since the C3g holes in the chassis were 3-4mm wider.  Also had to move and remove components so my stepped drill bit didn't destroy them while widening the 6SN7 socket.  And I ran out of soldering wick and had to run to Microcenter...wow it has been a long day.
> 
> ...



Young Jedi, I will send you my GOTL. I want the same deal !!! You've just started a new profession.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well, I did it.
> 
> After nearly 12 hours, I finished.  Hit some bumps along the way, like having to use my Dremel to widen the mounting holes of my octal sockets since the C3g holes in the chassis were 3-4mm wider.  Also had to move and remove components so my stepped drill bit didn't destroy them while widening the 6SN7 socket.  And I ran out of soldering wick and had to run to Microcenter...wow it has been a long day.
> 
> ...


That's what I call a custom custom amp. Congrats.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I will have to see if I can get a wooden chassis big enough for the Berlin.  Kinda neat with the ZMF headphones.
> At least this will make them look different.



Glenn like these.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Wow you finished it in one day great.
> And looks great too.
> Looks original that 6SN7 socket had to be a PITA to replace.



You have no idea...or actually you definitely do.  There are so many components in that area, I had to move everything so the step bit could drill far enough down.  Not my finest soldering work there, but it was really cramped!



leftside said:


> That's what I call a custom custom amp. Congrats.



Thanks, I bought secondhand so had to make it my own.  I'm gonna take it all the way with Jupiter caps and a Goldpoint.  That attenuator is going to pose its own challenges, but I have planned accordingly...


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Mordy, the wa22 was 1900 before plus 10-15% blackfriday promotion.


I just took that price off the Woo website - didn't do any price shopping.
https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa22


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Berlin will certainly be up to that task. I expect better things from it having heard the EL11 and EL12 spez and with Lundahl transformers, it will great ! If I didn't think Berlin will sound better than Studio Six, I would have aborted the plan.
> 
> Meanwhile just back from a day in the Brindabella Forest, I'm exhausted having covered more than 400 kms. What amazing scenery.
> 
> ...


What happened to the snow?


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Glenn like these.







Those huge nuts holding together everything at the corners look like what they use for the street lights here.....


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> What happened to the snow?



only tiny specks of snow besides the road. End of snow season.


----------



## mordy

Hi chrisdrop,
Re the socket savers: Another plus is that they act as heat insulators which is beneficial since heat is the #1 enemy of electronics.
On the con side: Some of them are very tight and when you try to pull out the tube the socket saver comes out with the tube which sort of negates saving the socket. But by inserting and pulling out a (sacrificial) tube a number of times you can loosen up the socket saver.
Another con is that it adds to the height and may make space tight for changing tubes if your amp is on a shelf in a rack.
On the whole i do feel that socket savers are very useful and that when using good quality ones there is very little or no sonic degradation.


----------



## mordy

Thanks to the courtesy of JV I now have a matched sextet of GE 6BX7 that is very quiet. I am trying out one of the preferred tube combinations on this blog - the Sylvania 6SN7W metal base (disguised as a pair of Sylvania 6J5/VT94 triodes) and the sextet.
I really had to exercise tremendous will power to pull out my quad 6080 and pair of TFK EL11 T that I love to try this.
Sounds very good, but impressions have to wait until the tubes warm up and my brain gets used to the sound.
I admire those people who roll tubes, one after the other, in three minute sessions, and are able to form an opinion about the sound of each roll. *L O L*


----------



## JazzVinyl

Good to hear the 6BX7GT sextet was also quiet and well behaved in your GOTL, Mordy.  Looking forward to the full SQ report for this tube compliment


----------



## mordy

Added in the pair of TFK EL11 T. All I can tell you is that the GOTL is running on 10 cylinders.....


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> I just took that price off the Woo website - didn't do any price shopping.
> https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa22


That's the new price.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Added in the pair of TFK EL11 T. All I can tell you is that the GOTL is running on 10 cylinders.....


Congrats on the new car.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Congrats on the new car.


Hi attmci,
I just wanted to give a visual impression of the speed and power of this tube combination......


----------



## mordy (Oct 26, 2019)

Here is a picture - the upper right corner shows my 4" fan.



This combination draws 11.4A. With the fan on the amp is very cool; the transformer measures 31C and the chassis around 27C.
The bass and treble are very powerful. Wide sound stage and great instrument separation. Have to keep the volume knob at a lower setting than usual.
Played a recording with a lot of bass content - tremendous slam and impact - worried that my neighbors will complain.... 
Chrisdrop: The white socket saver in the front is a special high quality socket saver rated for thousands of uses; the other sockets are also of good quality but not rated for as many changes - all the socket savers from Deyan.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> .  Even better than my old adapter, pin 1 of the sockets is now connected to the ground bus, so the external and internal shields of my 6J5 and 6C5 tubes are functional.  It is DEAD quiet.


My upcoming custom OTL amp also has this feature with the 6J5 sockets. Will be great to hear these tubes in sockets designed for them. You beat me to it though - by a week or two


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> My upcoming custom OTL amp also has this feature with the 6J5 sockets. Will be great to hear these tubes in sockets designed for them. You beat me to it though - by a week or two


No race here - just wanted to try the 6J5 family of tubes based on L0rdgwyn's recommendation. So far I only have the Sylvania 6J5 and National Union 12J5 tubes, but more are on order. 
It will be interesting to compare notes when your amp comes in. It appears to me that having two separate triodes instead of one dual triode may have sonic advantages as drivers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Here is a picture - the upper right corner shows my 4" fan.
> 
> This combination draws 11.4A. With the fan on the amp is very cool; the transformer measures 31C and the chassis around 27C.
> The bass and treble are very powerful. Wide sound stage and great instrument separation. Have to keep the volume knob at a lower setting than usual.
> ...



Looks great, Mordy and must sound great, too!


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> No race here - just wanted to try the 6J5 family of tubes based on L0rdgwyn's recommendation. So far I only have the Sylvania 6J5 and National Union 12J5 tubes, but more are on order.
> It will be interesting to compare notes when your amp comes in. It appears to me that having two separate triodes instead of one dual triode may have sonic advantages as drivers.


My response really was just tongue in cheek  But, seriously I'm really glad others are also using and enjoying these tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> But here is the payoff: where there were C3g sockets, there are now switchable 6/12J5 sockets.  Even better than my old adapter, pin 1 of the sockets is now connected to the ground bus, so the external and internal shields of my 6J5 and 6C5 tubes are functional.  It is DEAD quiet.
> 
> Man I love how the shouldered 6J5 look in the amp, thought this combo would show it off well, Tung-Sol 6J5G and Tung-Sol 5998.
> 
> Goldpoint is on the way



Congrats doctor, on a very successful surgery!! Looks fantastic!!


----------



## rnros

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well, I did it.
> 
> After nearly 12 hours, I finished.  Hit some bumps along the way, like having to use my Dremel to widen the mounting holes of my octal sockets since the C3g holes in the chassis were 3-4mm wider.  Also had to move and remove components so my stepped drill bit didn't destroy them while widening the 6SN7 socket.  And I ran out of soldering wick and had to run to Microcenter...wow it has been a long day.
> 
> ...



Well done, LG. Thanks for sharing pics.


----------



## UntilThen

My GOTL will go through a redesign and makeover. Not sure what it will be but it will be radical.

May even sell it and have Glenn build a new OTL amp.


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> My GOTL will go through a redesign and makeover. Not sure what it will be but it will be radical.
> 
> May even sell it and have Glenn build a new OTL amp.


What's wrong with Ulysses?


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> What's wrong with Ulysses?



Arnold, nothing is wrong with Ulysses.   I'll leave it alone because my next amp after Berlin is occupying my mind like a plague.  

I'll list some tubes for 'Sydney'. This amp is for Christmas 2020 and it's getting my pulse racing because I've already reserved my tubes - i.e they are as good as mine come rain or shine.  

4 x Marconi KT66 smoke glass.

 

4 x Philips Miniwatt KT66 clear glass
 

2 x GEC KT66 clear glass
 

That's just for KT66.


----------



## UntilThen

Next lot...

4 x Philips Miniwatt EL34 DD getter xf4 - very rare - NOS
 

4 x Philips Minwatt 6CA7 OO getter xf2


----------



## UntilThen

Next lot...

2 x Brimar 6L6GA black glass - as rare as chooks teeth
 

2 x Brimar 6L6G black glass - as rare as Mona Lisa


----------



## lukeap69

@UntilThen 

Wow, you are thinking so far ahead now. Berlin isn't built yet and you have another build in mind. I am an engineer by profession but you think more like an engineer than me.


----------



## UntilThen

Next lot... 

4 x GEC KT88 - this will hurt me big time... so maybe pass 
 

 


4 x GEC KT77 - not sure if I want these....


----------



## UntilThen

As for drivers for Sydney....

2 x GEC L63
 

2 x GEC L63 
 

4 x Sylvania 6C5GT 
 

2 x Mullard 6J5GT
 

4 x 6C5G - assorted brands


----------



## UntilThen

This is what I want to capture in the Sydney amp. The most beautiful city in the world and yes I'm biased.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> @UntilThen
> 
> Wow, you are thinking so far ahead now. Berlin isn't built yet and you have another build in mind. I am an engineer by profession but you think more like an engineer than me.



I'm an IT Consultant and I plan ahead. Benjamin Franklin said... 

"If you fail to plan, you are planning to fail!"


----------



## UntilThen

So why quad power tubes? Well I'll have the option to run 2 or 4 power tubes. Hence the power tubes will be purchased as quad.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Wow, you are thinking so far ahead now.



Glenn says he is the most crazy tube amp lover of us all. I believe him and I'm trying to emulate him. 

I think I don't need Godzilla after Sydney. It will be ....


----------



## chrisdrop

Building on yesterday's _lovely_ day of listening, I wanted to check the logic on my next attempted combo:
Same base as yesterday; 1x 12SN7 Tung Sol round plate + 4x Brimar 6080s (I did love it all day)
Today attempt to add; *2x Mullard EL32s in c3g slot w/ Deyan adapters. *​
I think that should be:
1x TS 12SN7 = .3a, mu = 20 (https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/1/12SN7GT.pdf)
4x 6080s = 2.5a each = 10a, mu = 2 (https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/009/6/6080.pdf)
2x EL32's (C3g sockets w/ adapters), 0.2a each = .4a, mu = 7 (https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/154/e/EL32.pdf)
total a = 10.7 (< 13 = OK)
_(Did we land on amp factor being multiplicative or not? sum = 29, multiplicative is 280 which seems a lot, don't think it matters too much here)_​
I think each @mordy & @JazzVinyl have suggested combos such as this. Given my newness, just checking I am not just wrong and that my thinking is correct.

Tx!


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well, I did it.
> 
> After nearly 12 hours, I finished.  Hit some bumps along the way, like having to use my Dremel to widen the mounting holes of my octal sockets since the C3g holes in the chassis were 3-4mm wider.  Also had to move and remove components so my stepped drill bit didn't destroy them while widening the 6SN7 socket.  And I ran out of soldering wick and had to run to Microcenter...wow it has been a long day.
> 
> ...




Those 6J5 tubes really looks nice in there pal.
This gets me excited to think how my new amp may look.

Great job and you got finished faster than I expected.....I really like the look of the dark sockets on the black amp.
That goldpoint is gonna be a job.
You have a wonderful custom amp......enjoy!


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Building on yesterday's _lovely_ day of listening, I wanted to check the logic on my next attempted combo:
> Same base as yesterday; 1x 12SN7 Tung Sol round plate + 4x Brimar 6080s (I did love it all day)
> Today attempt to add; *2x Mullard EL32s in c3g slot w/ Deyan adapters. *​
> I think that should be:
> ...


Hi chrisdrop,
No multiplication-just simple addition. The 10.7A number is correct.
Enjoy and let us know how it works out!’
Keep in mind that most tubes need some 30-50 hours or more to sound their best.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> This is what I want to capture in the Sydney amp. The most beautiful city in the world and yes I'm biased.




I am listening to the new Bonamassa album...recorded live from Sydney Opera House...if I lived there I would not have missed this for the world...recorded in 2016 I believe, but just released.
Only 9 songs from the concert, wish the album would have been of the whole concert....the guitar work is simply stunning....love his current band.

 

Listening with the EL3N amp running EL34 powers....these tubes and electric guitar make pure magic and with LCD-3 the depth and texture of the bass is a thing to behold.

 

If Zack's ZMF planar comes to be .....I will be in my happy place with the new amp and those cans...hoping he makes both an open and closed version....particularly interested in the closed.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I am listening to the new Bonamassa album...recorded live from Sydney Opera House...if I lived there I would not have missed this for the world...recorded in 2016 I believe, but just released.
> Only 9 songs from the concert, wish the album would have been of the whole concert....the guitar work is simply stunning....love his current band.



In 2016, I've not heard of Bonamassa and he has not heard of me.  If he performs now I'll go and listen.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> You have no idea...or actually you definitely do.  There are so many components in that area, I had to move everything so the step bit could drill far enough down.  Not my finest soldering work there, but it was really cramped!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I bought secondhand so had to make it my own.  I'm gonna take it all the way with Jupiter caps and a Goldpoint.  That attenuator is going to pose its own challenges, but I have planned accordingly...



The Gold point is going to be easy peasy compared to what you just done.  The front panel is already counter board to the right size you will have to enlarge the hole for the shaft
it is a little bigger. The hole is 3/8" the gold point needs 13/32". Best to use a small step drill to enlarge the hole as long as it don't hit the filter capacitor for the drivers.
  All there is is five wires 2 in 2 out and a ground. Make sure you file off the locking key on the Gold Point.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> The Gold point is going to be easy peasy compared to what you just done.  The front panel is already counter board to the right size you will have to enlarge the hole for the shaft
> it is a little bigger. The hole is 3/8" the gold point needs 13/32". Best to use a small step drill to enlarge the hole as long as it don't hit the filter capacitor for the drivers.
> All there is is five wires 2 in 2 out and a ground. Make sure you file off the locking key on the Gold Point.



Thanks, Glenn.  Where I see issues is the counterbore on the front of the amp for the mounting nut is just the right size for the Alps pot, which uses a smaller nut than the Goldpoint.  The diameter of the counterbore is 12.6mm measured with my calipers, the Goldpoint front mounting nut is around 16mm.  I've ordered a thinner nut for the front that is around 14mm, so I am going to see if I can expand the size of the counterbore a tad to fit it in, most likely with a Dremel and grinder since I do not have a drill press to counterbore.  Otherwise, I'll have to stick a washer or something in it and mount the nut outside of the counterbore so it is in contact with the front panel.  Not a big deal, I am just neurotic and would like the nut to fit in the counterbore!  I'll expand the hole for the shaft with a step drill.

The other thing is from my measurements, there is JUST enough room behind the front panel for the Goldpoint.  It is 1.7" long, and that filter cap is around 1.7" away from the counterbore on the back panel, so I will probably have to remove the cap, install the Goldpoint, then put the cap back.  Still nothing compared to what I did yesterday, I think it will work out.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UsoppNoKami said:


> Gonna try rolling drivers over the weekend to see what I like best.



The Centron 6336B + Brimar 13D1 was nice, but treble did get a bit hot on some tracks with the HE1000SE. Intent on just finding the best match for this particular headphone, I put in one of my Brimar black glass 6SN7GT tubes. It's a taller bottle than the 13D1, but I have no idea what the construction is like inside as the glass is really dark.




This tube roll has hit the spot - i have found what I like with the HEKSE and GOTL  This particular Brimar driver takes the edge off the 6336B without impacting the sparkly and airy top end of the way the Hifiman sounds.



Next week, back to endless tube rolling for the Verite .....


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks, Glenn.  Where I see issues is the counterbore on the front of the amp for the mounting nut is just the right size for the Alps pot, which uses a smaller nut than the Goldpoint.  The diameter of the counterbore is 12.6mm measured with my calipers, the Goldpoint front mounting nut is around 16mm.  I've ordered a thinner nut for the front that is around 14mm, so I am going to see if I can expand the size of the counterbore a tad to fit it in, most likely with a Dremel and grinder since I do not have a drill press to counterbore.  Otherwise, I'll have to stick a washer or something in it and mount the nut outside of the counterbore so it is in contact with the front panel.  Not a big deal, I am just neurotic and would like the nut to fit in the counterbore!  I'll expand the hole for the shaft with a step drill.
> 
> The other thing is from my measurements, there is JUST enough room behind the front panel for the Goldpoint.  It is 1.7" long, and that filter cap is around 1.7" away from the counterbore on the back panel, so I will probably have to remove the cap, install the Goldpoint, then put the cap back.  Still nothing compared to what I did yesterday, I think it will work out.



The shaft on the Gold Point is longer so no need for the counter boar on the front. And you can use the nut that comes with the Gold Point.
Once you enlarge the hole to 13/32 the counter boar on the front will be mostly gone.
This will be a easy switch no problem as I use both Alps and Gold Point volume controls.
The Cap can be a problem the gold point rests on the back of the panel and does not recess into the counter boar.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> The shaft on the Gold Point is longer so no need for the counter boar on the front. And you can use the nut that comes with the Gold Point.
> Once you enlarge the hole to 13/32 the counter boar on the front will be mostly gone.
> This will be a easy switch no problem as I use both Alps and Gold Point volume controls.
> The Cap can be a problem the gold point rests on the back of the panel and does not recess into the counter boar.



Good point, not much of a counterbore left anyway, I'll just use their nut.  Hopefully there is enough clearance with the cap, it is gonna be close.  The worst case scenario is I have to drill another hole for the bracket and move the cap back a few mm, really hoping I don't have to do that though.

Going to order some Jupiter caps today, 0.47uF 600V.  Was trying to find some sort of mount for axial caps, they are 0.812" in diameter, though I could use the screws that are attached to the Russian caps for a mount, not really finding anything though.  I know its not a big deal of they are floating, but I have seen a photo of one of your amps using them and I saw you use terminals to float the caps, which my amp does not have, and there is no way I am adding terminals and rewiring everything again lol.


----------



## dminches

L0rdGwyn said:


> Good point, not much of a counterbore left anyway, I'll just use their nut.  Hopefully there is enough clearance with the cap, it is gonna be close.  The worst case scenario is I have to drill another hole for the bracket and move the cap back a few mm, really hoping I don't have to do that though.
> 
> Going to order some Jupiter caps today, 0.47uF 600V.  Was trying to find some sort of mount for axial caps, they are 0.812" in diameter, though I could use the screws that are attached to the Russian caps for a mount, not really finding anything though.  I know its not a big deal of they are floating, but I have seen a photo of one of your amps using them and I saw you use terminals to float the caps, which my amp does not have, and there is no way I am adding terminals and rewiring everything again lol.



Just to recap, what are you accomplishing with your changes?  The ability to use different tubes?  I may have missed an earlier post on this.  Just curious.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Good point, not much of a counterbore left anyway, I'll just use their nut.  Hopefully there is enough clearance with the cap, it is gonna be close.  The worst case scenario is I have to drill another hole for the bracket and move the cap back a few mm, really hoping I don't have to do that though.
> 
> Going to order some Jupiter caps today, 0.47uF 600V.  Was trying to find some sort of mount for axial caps, they are 0.812" in diameter, though I could use the screws that are attached to the Russian caps for a mount, not really finding anything though.  I know its not a big deal of they are floating, but I have seen a photo of one of your amps using them and I saw you use terminals to float the caps, which my amp does not have, and there is no way I am adding terminals and rewiring everything again lol.



If you keep them tight between the connections they will be held in place. You might have to add a terminal strip were the Russian caps are and remove the two white wires that takes the signal
to the output tube sockets. But remember there are two 82K ohm resisters that give a ground reference to the output tubes you will some how move these back by the output tubes.
These resistors are very important or the output tubes will burn up with no bias.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

dminches said:


> Just to recap...



Serious missed pun opportunity here, I would have been on the floor 



dminches said:


> ...what are you accomplishing with your changes?  The ability to use different tubes?  I may have missed an earlier post on this.  Just curious.



Below is what I did yesterday, which now allows me to use 6J5 and 12J5 in the amp without use of an adapter.  I replaced all of the sockets in the amp, removed the C3g/pentode sockets, and rewired for use of 6/12J5.



L0rdGwyn said:


> Well, I did it.
> 
> After nearly 12 hours, I finished.  Hit some bumps along the way, like having to use my Dremel to widen the mounting holes of my octal sockets since the C3g holes in the chassis were 3-4mm wider.  Also had to move and remove components so my stepped drill bit didn't destroy them while widening the 6SN7 socket.  And I ran out of soldering wick and had to run to Microcenter...wow it has been a long day.
> 
> ...



As far as the output capacitors go, in an OTL they are directly in the signal path, so their quality affects the sound.  The Jupiter caps are one of the best (?), or at least most expensive boutique paper film capacitors you can buy.  It is very possible the changes in sound between the Jupiter caps and the stock Russian PIO caps are negligible, but I am curious to see.

Now the Goldpoint, again, some people say stepped attenuators sound better.  More likely I would not be able to tell it apart from the Alps pot in a blind test, but I do like the tactile feel of stepped attenuators and those Goldpoint knobs are quite attractive  could improve the sound of the amp, but who knows, I am curious.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

2359glenn said:


> If you keep them tight between the connections they will be held in place. You might have to add a terminal strip were the Russian caps are and remove the two white wires that takes the signal
> to the output tube sockets. But remember there are two 82K ohm resisters that give a ground reference to the output tubes you will some how move these back by the output tubes.
> These resistors are very important or the output tubes will burn up with no bias.



nice photo Glenn, looks just like my amp from underneath with the brown sockets, jupiter caps and tube rectifier


----------



## 2359glenn

UsoppNoKami said:


> nice photo Glenn, looks just like my amp from underneath with the brown sockets, jupiter caps and tube rectifier



Yours has more big power resistors as it has the 5998 switch otherwise the same.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

2359glenn said:


> Yours has more big power resistors as it has the 5998 switch otherwise the same.



Nice to know ! Hehe

 

Have been listening to my music via HE1000SE and GOTL with the WE422A, Brimar 6SN7GT black glass and Centron 6336B for 4 hours straight. Every genre of music. This is excellent!


----------



## felix3650

@UntilThen 
I too thought about a wooden GEL3N, or should I call it WEL3N.
@2359glenn 
Can a wooden base be done?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 27, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> If you keep them tight between the connections they will be held in place. You might have to add a terminal strip were the Russian caps are and remove the two white wires that takes the signal
> to the output tube sockets. But remember there are two 82K ohm resisters that give a ground reference to the output tubes you will some how move these back by the output tubes.
> These resistors are very important or the output tubes will burn up with no bias.



Okay, I will look into adding the terminal, Glenn.  Haven't planned in full for the cap changeout yet since I am doing the Goldpoint first.  Should be simple though.  Once I've added the Goldpoint and the Jupiter caps, the amp will basically be what I was planning to order from you, minus the 5998 switch.  But I think I will be much happier to have a SET amp built instead.

Any other component changes worth trying?  Not sure what else would be audible or even worth doing.


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> @UntilThen
> I too thought about a wooden GEL3N, or should I call it WEL3N.
> @2359glenn
> Can a wooden base be done?



When is your amp due Felix? I didn't think about a wooden amp. It was Glenn who suggested it. I think if done right, it would be a killer in looks with my favourite headphone currently - Verite Open. This headphone is everything I never expected it to be. It's fulfilling my every dreams. 

The thing is Berlin can look stunning in both metal and wooden chassis due to the very gun metal grey look of the tubes. Think Mercedes, BMW and Audi. Stately, classy and elegance. Pure German excellence.  I did not say this because I was at the Oktoberfest yesterday, which by the way I had a very good time.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Okay, I will look into adding the terminal, Glenn.  Haven't planned in full for the cap changeout yet since I am doing the Goldpoint first.  Should be simple though.  Once I've added the Goldpoint and the Jupiter caps, the amp will basically be what I was planning to order from you, minus the 5998 switch.  But I think I will be much happier to have a SET amp built instead.
> 
> Any other component changes worth trying?  Not sure what else would be audible or even worth doing.



Not really even the Jupiter coupling caps won't make a big difference in sound but a little better.
I use Jupiter caps in my amp and for the last 5 days been listening to @Velozity amp with all Japanese tubes and Jupiter caps.
Sounded fantastic with my Verite had no amp with Russian caps to A-B test or I would have.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Not really even the Jupiter coupling caps won't make a big difference in sound but a little better.
> I use Jupiter caps in my amp and for the last 5 days been listening to @Velozity amp with all Japanese tubes and Jupiter caps.
> Sounded fantastic with my Verite had no amp with Russian caps to A-B test or I would have.



Glad those NEC tubes are getting a workout.  I was listening to them the other day, still really impressed with them.  Can't wait to try the 6520, maybe later this week.  Wow, just checked, Tuesday actually!  Also will get those NEC 6080s.

Won't be an AB, but I will make an effort to do a before and after with the Jupiter caps using the same tube setup and music, but the outcome will probably be "I think it sounds better, but I don't know."  We'll see.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Not really even the Jupiter coupling caps won't make a big difference in sound but a little better.
> I use Jupiter caps in my amp and for the last 5 days been listening to @Velozity amp with all Japanese tubes and Jupiter caps.
> Sounded fantastic with my Verite had no amp with Russian caps to A-B test or I would have.



I think I will go with Jupiter caps for Berlin simply because my Ulysses (GOTL) has Russian caps. It would be interesting to compare. I know, one's SET and the other OTL, so we're comparing King Kong vs Didi Kong. I do like how GOTL with Russian caps sounded though.


----------



## felix3650

UntilThen said:


> When is your amp due Felix? I didn't think about a wooden amp. It was Glenn who suggested it. I think if done right, it would be a killer in looks with my favourite headphone currently - Verite Open. This headphone is everything I never expected it to be. It's fulfilling my every dreams.
> 
> The thing is Berlin can look stunning in both metal and wooden chassis due to the very gun metal grey look of the tubes. Think Mercedes, BMW and Audi. Stately, classy and elegance. Pure German excellence.  I did not say this because I was at the Oktoberfest yesterday, which by the way I had a very good time.



Need to sort some things out first (real life stuff) and then I'll give Glenn the green light 
My idea was exactly that, couple it visually with my Auteur. After that comes a Verite Closed and I'm done. Right now I'm sporting a Holo Cyan R-2R but Zach's headphones really crave for some tube goodness.

Those EL tibes have quite the looks. My favorite pic of yours is the Super 9 with a pair of EL11 on front (with 6x 6BX7)


----------



## UntilThen

felix3650 said:


> Need to sort some things out first (real life stuff) and then I'll give Glenn the green light
> My idea was exactly that, couple it visually with my Auteur. *After that comes a Verite Closed and I'm done.* Right now I'm sporting a Holo Cyan R-2R but Zach's headphones really crave for some tube goodness.
> 
> Those EL tibes have quite the looks. My favorite pic of yours is the Super 9 with a pair of EL11 on front (with 6x 6BX7)



Haha... so you think you're done after a certain amp or headphone.... haha haha. Pardon me Felix but I have to laugh at that at 4:18 am. I told myself that after 3.5 years of roller coaster with this hobby. It's all fun though, including spending the money and driving my accountant to alcohol and serious drinks. 

My Super 9 with EL11 and 6 x 6bx7?  I have love how the GOTL looks and how it sounds. For nearly 2 years it has been on my wall of fame but lately the other amps that have graced my 'rack' have been providing serious competition. 

Now I'm about to embark on another journey with another amp....... ok it's 4:23 am and I should crawl back into bed or I will stumble into office like a drunkard and reception might not allow me into the building - I mean office. 

Btw this weekend or the weekend past has been the most incredible weekend of my life. I'm feeling very guilty when I say I enjoyed it so much that I don't missed going home to Sydney !!! Hope the wife is not reading this. Well she doesn't know I'm posting here nor does she know that I'm UntilThen ha !!!


----------



## mordy

And here I thought that the TFK EL11 were just drab nondescript military grey....
These are from 1941 and 1942


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Parts Connexion is just killing it with these sales, slashing prices, they're practically giving these caps away!


----------



## mordy

Jupiter cartoon:


----------



## rnros (Oct 27, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Parts Connexion is just killing it with these sales, slashing prices, they're practically giving these caps away!



For some reason I thought you were going for the Copper Foil version when you mentioned the Jupiters.
The Coppers are almost double at $99 each, but that seems reasonable by comparison to some of the other hi-end caps.
Not to mention tube prices... and the caps should last longer.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

rnros said:


> For some reason I thought you were going for the Copper Foil version when you mentioned the Jupitors.
> The Coppers are almost double at $99 each, but that seems reasonable by comparison to some of the other hi-end caps.
> Not to mention tube prices... and the caps should last longer.



Oh yeah, I would be going for the copper foil, was just looking at the other options when I noticed the sale price 

Good news, the copper foils are marked down as well: https://www.partsconnexion.com/JUPITER-78885.html

I agree, compared to tube prices, the caps are a bargain, might as well go with the best.


----------



## mordy (Oct 27, 2019)

How long can you expect the capacitors to last? From the little I know I have seen old receivers from the 80's that routinely need new capacitors, but I don't know if this applies to the capacitors used in tube amps.
*Jupiter Capacitor 0.47uF 600Vdc Copper Foil*
USD $99.00 USD $99.00 You Save USD $0.00 (0%)
Am I reading it right - the sale price is the same as the regular price?


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Oh yeah, I would be going for the copper foil, was just looking at the other options when I noticed the sale price
> 
> Good news, the copper foils are marked down as well: https://www.partsconnexion.com/JUPITER-78885.html
> 
> I agree, compared to tube prices, the caps are a bargain, might as well go with the best.



I usually get them from here price about the same. Partsconnexion always ships UPS signature required and I am at work a PITA.
Hifi collective sends them through the post to sign for I just drive a mile. 
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/co...00vdc-jupiter-copper-foil-paper-wax-capacitor


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> How long can you expect the capacitors to last? From the little I know *I have seen old receivers from the 80's that routinely need new capacitors*, but I don't know if this applies to the capacitors used in tube amps.
> *Jupiter Capacitor 0.47uF 600Vdc Copper Foil*
> USD $99.00 USD $99.00 You Save USD $0.00 (0%)
> Am I reading it right - the sale price is the same as the regular price?



Yep, that's my plan, replace the caps every 39 years, whether they need it or not. 

I've never seen the Jupiter Copper Caps on sale. Don't know about the other Jupiter types.
Think that's the standard item listing format for all items, whether there is a discount or not.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

rnros said:


> Yep, that's my plan, replace the caps every 39 years, whether they need it or not.
> 
> I've never seen the Jupiter Copper Caps on sale. Don't know about the other Jupiter types.
> Think that's the standard item listing format for all items, whether there is a discount or not.



Yes, it was a joke, a very dry one 



2359glenn said:


> I usually get them from here price about the same. Partsconnexion always ships UPS signature required and I am at work a PITA.
> Hifi collective sends them through the post to sign for I just drive a mile.
> https://www.hificollective.co.uk/co...00vdc-jupiter-copper-foil-paper-wax-capacitor



Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.


----------



## mordy

Jupiter capacitors are not made on Jupiter but in Ohio lol. The same reputable place that has the EL3N tubes at a good price in Holland sells the Jupiters as well. Without VAT the prices seem lower, but adding in PayPal fees and shipping may negate this.
http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/jupiter/Jupiter-Copper-foil-paper-and-wax-capacitors-main-page.htm

Here is the factory information:

Jupiter Condenser
1525 Plantation Drive
Hudson, OH 44236
330-606-0903
info@jupitercondenser.com
and their website:
jupitercondenser.com


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 27, 2019)

UT do keep in mind our trusted amp maker did say that tubes don't make as big a difference in the final sound with OTC amps being the Lundahl transformer is in the final signal. So my personal recommendation would be to save your wallet (and for God's sake the tube supply LOL), and just go with maybe 2 different sets of drivers / powers to see how it goes first.



UntilThen said:


> As for drivers for Sydney....
> (...)
> 4 x Sylvania 6C5GT


I also got two of those Sylvania 6C5GT - the one with yellow lettering which was said on another forum to be the best sounding. These do have a very unique looking internal construction too with the sort of coiled metal plate of sorts, and something tells me these will need extra burn-in.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> UT do keep in mind our trusted tube maker did say that tubes don't make as big a difference in the final sound with OTC amps being the Lundahl transformer is in the final signal. So my personal recommendation would be to save your wallet (and for God's sake the tube supply LOL), and just go with maybe 2 different sets of drivers / powers to see how it goes first.
> 
> 
> I also got two of those Sylvania 6C5GT - the one with yellow lettering which was said on another forum to be the best sounding. These do have a very unique looking internal construction too with the sort of coiled metal plate of sorts, and something tells me these will need extra burn-in.



I humbly disagree because in my SET Studio Six, tubes makes quite a difference. 

So I will buy up quad of everything lol. It’s kind of imbalance. The drivers are so cheap and the power tubes cost Santa his job.


----------



## Monsterzero

I will give @UntilThen first crack at these.
Im going to sell my GEC 6AS7Gs. Ive put maybe twenty hours tops on them since getting them from Matt. It pains me to sell them but none of my other gear is selling and I need the funds to purchase my server.

$500.00 to me.

If nobody from this thread wants them I will post them in the classifieds. I can snap photos if needed.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I will give @UntilThen first crack at these.
> Im going to sell my GEC 6AS7Gs. Ive put maybe twenty hours tops on them since getting them from Matt. It pains me to sell them but none of my other gear is selling and I need the funds to purchase my server.
> 
> $500.00 to me.
> ...



Come back to Daddy, my baby GEC 6as7g (s).

I’ll be speaking to you in PM after work D.

For returning my babies to me, I will hook you up for a NOS pair of Marconi KT66 smoke glass unused virgin tubes. Again we will talk in PM after work which is 8 hours from now.

Cheers
UT


----------



## UntilThen

OMG the perfect pair of GEC 6as7g is coming back to me.

Sweet dreams are made of these.


----------



## UntilThen

But now I will have 3 perfect GEC 6as7g with curve brown base....


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> But now I will have 3 perfect GEC 6as7g with curve brown base....


Well, you have 3 amps, don’t you?
Just kidding- I don’t think all of them can use the GECs.
Might be a good investment though the way the prices are going up. Just three years ago you could buy a pair for around $240.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy I’ve never think of tubes as an investment option. If you had the foresight and bought a thousand of GEC 6as7g 20 years ago then yeah....

I wanted a complete set of the prominent 6as7g and 6080. Only the WE 421a is missing but I won’t chase that now.... because I’ve a bucket load of tubes I will be accumulating over the course of one year for ‘Sydney’.

and out of the blue, something else is surfacing on the horizon....


----------



## mordy (Oct 27, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Mordy I’ve never think of tubes as an investment option. If you had the foresight and bought a thousand of GEC 6as7g 20 years ago then yeah....
> 
> I wanted a complete set of the prominent 6as7g and 6080. Only the WE 421a is missing but I won’t chase that now.... because I’ve a bucket load of tubes I will be accumulating over the course of one year for ‘Sydney’.
> 
> and out of the blue, something else is surfacing on the horizon....








?
BTW, what happened to the Australian chap that bought up the remaining Mullard production some 50 years ago and wanted to sell it as a lot for some $40,000+?


----------



## UntilThen

Interpol is after him so he’s in hiding.

Whenever I think of Blue Hawaii and Stax SR-009, I think of the Pink Panther song I heard on it. It was the best Pink Panther ever !!!

But I need something more suitable for ‘Smoke On The Water’ and Tchaikovsky 1812 overtures.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Have started making my way back through my 6J5 collection.  This GOTL modification has reinvigorated my enthusiasm for these tubes and it is nice seeing them in their own sockets.  Just might grab a few pairs that have been on my wishlist for a long time  they will look better in my amp.

Here we have the MOV L63 and Western Electric 421A.  This is my other pair of L63, completely unmarked and in original brown military boxes.  The interior coating is THICK, no light can penetrate its magical innards (I have tried).  I love this tube, it is the inspiration for my ongoing MH4 exploration, its predecessor.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> Have started making my way back through my 6J5 collection.  This GOTL modification has reinvigorated my enthusiasm for these tubes and it is nice seeing them in their own sockets.  Just might grab a few pairs that have been on my wishlist for a long time  they will look better in my amp.
> 
> Here we have the MOV L63 and Western Electric 421A.  This is my other pair of L63, completely unmarked and in original brown military boxes.  The interior coating is THICK, no light can penetrate its magical innards (I have tried).  I love this tube, it is the inspiration for my ongoing MH4 exploration, its predecessor.



Congrats on the successful surgery.  You're brave to take that on, and it's been nice to enjoy watching the process from a distance .  I keep looking over at the GOTL here and wondering if I would ever open it up.


----------



## mordy

As far as I am concerned I am amazed at the proficiency of LG - I would not dream of opening up my amp or undertake any changes. Wow! 
At the same time I am thinking to myself that I am  very happy with the amp, and it is enough for me to change the sound by rolling tubes....
My feeling is that the GOTL conveys the emotions of the music in a great way in addition to great reproduction of the music, and it brings me much happiness to listen to it.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> My feeling is that the GOTL conveys the emotions of the music in a great way in addition to great reproduction of the music, and it brings me much happiness to listen to it.



This is spot on.  And it's what I look for most.  I like details and soundstage and separation and space.  But I don't get engaged by what I'm listening to because of that.  I think it's the tone, timbre, timing, rhythm, realism that connect with me on an emotional level.  And GOTL (with Aeolus and Hugo2) bring that each time I have listened so far.  I like that it lets me forget what tubes are in the slots and just enjoy music.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Have started making my way back through my 6J5 collection.  This GOTL modification has reinvigorated my enthusiasm for these tubes and it is nice seeing them in their own sockets.  Just might grab a few pairs that have been on my wishlist for a long time  they will look better in my amp.
> 
> Here we have the MOV L63 and Western Electric 421A.  This is my other pair of L63, completely unmarked and in original brown military boxes.  The interior coating is THICK, no light can penetrate its magical innards (I have tried).  I love this tube, it is the inspiration for my ongoing MH4 exploration, its predecessor.



You did a stunning job, LG!!  Big congrats!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Thank you for the kind words gentlemen  very happy to have found this thread, I have learned a great deal and been inspired by its members to learn even more.  Cheers!


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> This is spot on.  And it's what I look for most.  I like details and soundstage and separation and space.  But I don't get engaged by what I'm listening to because of that.  I think it's the tone, timbre, timing, rhythm, realism that connect with me on an emotional level.  And GOTL (with Aeolus and Hugo2) bring that each time I have listened so far.  I like that it lets me forget what tubes are in the slots and just enjoy music.


You said it much better than me!
The interesting thing is that we have completely different ancillary equipment and yet react the same way.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thank you for the kind words gentlemen  very happy to have found this thread, I have learned a great deal and been inspired by its members to learn even more.  Cheers!


Nice job.

The next, mod it to use a rectifier tube.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Have started making my way back through my 6J5 collection.  This GOTL modification has reinvigorated my enthusiasm for these tubes and it is nice seeing them in their own sockets.  Just might grab a few pairs that have been on my wishlist for a long time  they will look better in my amp.
> 
> Here we have the MOV L63 and Western Electric 421A.  This is my other pair of L63, completely unmarked and in original brown military boxes.  The interior coating is THICK, no light can penetrate its magical innards (I have tried).  I love this tube, it is the inspiration for my ongoing MH4 exploration, its predecessor.



I will be using those drivers for Sydney end of next year with mainly KT66, EL34 and 6L6. Maybe KT77. 

GEC KT88 is too expensive. The tubes are waiting for me but I may not buy it.


----------



## UntilThen

Single GEC 6as7g arrived today and I used it in combination with a RCA 6as7g.  Pure silence. No noise at all !!! Beautiful tone of this monarch tube. Truly legendary stuff. Now to get the other pair home.


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Single GEC 6as7g arrived today and I used it in combination with a RCA 6as7g.  Pure silence. No noise at all !!! Beautiful tone of this monarch tube. Truly legendary stuff. Now to get the other pair home.



That is the beauty of them pure silence no worries about pops blowing your phones.
The only other 6AS7 I will use now is the NEC 6AS7s @L0rdGwyn gave me they are perfectly quiet too.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Have started making my way back through my 6J5 collection.  This GOTL modification has reinvigorated my enthusiasm for these tubes and it is nice seeing them in their own sockets.  Just might grab a few pairs that have been on my wishlist for a long time  they will look better in my amp.
> 
> Here we have the MOV L63 and Western Electric 421A.  This is my other pair of L63, completely unmarked and in original brown military boxes.  The interior coating is THICK, no light can penetrate its magical innards (I have tried).  I love this tube, it is the inspiration for my ongoing MH4 exploration, its predecessor.




Looks wonderful....those L63 tubes look the part besides sounding good.
I wish the yamamoto sockets came in black.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> That is the beauty of them pure silence no worries about pops blowing your phones.
> The only other 6AS7 I will use now is the NEC 6AS7s @L0rdGwyn gave me they are perfectly quiet too.



I'm still enjoying the GEC 6as7g out of the WA22. Too lazy to swap out the sextet 6bx7 from GOTL. Then I realised that I'm still running one RCA and one GEC 6as7g in the WA22...... and it sounded good lol.

I can't wait to get the pair back from Monster. It's a perfect pair that I bought from Stavros !


----------



## UntilThen

Hello @Ramenik, welcome !

I'm going to answer your PM to me on the open forum because I know there will be others who will be asking the same questions. So I hope to answer these questions for the sake of other prospective Glenn OTL amp buyers at the same time.

I'd like to quote your message if it's ok with you because  A) you're a Singaporean (my fellow countryman)  B) you're very sincere and courteous. I'm touched. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_*Hello,

I am Ramenik, a new headfi member and just getting into personal hifi.

Sorry for messaging you seemingly out of the blue like this lol. The reason I am writing this is because I hoped that you will be able to help me if I decided to get a Glenn otl, given your expertise in tubes. There are alot of information in the Glenn studios thread and a little overwhelming for a novice tube user like me.

I am in the process of moving from a stereo speakers setup to a desktop system due to family reasons (baby and a second one coming). Most likely getting a pair of aeolus or Verite after auditioning them last weekend. I have also talked to Glenn, but would like to talk to others with experiences with his amp.

I am just very confused over the different tube types, tubes and socket configuration etc. So would like to ask if you have any suggestions on the configuration to go for as a first time tube user like me. For example Glenn has asked me if I wanted one 6sn7 or two 6j5 and I was like ???. I would want the voltage switch for cheaper tubes, gold point volume, Jupiter capacitors and lundahl transformer that he suggested though.

Sorry for being so long winded lol. As I am diving in head first into this hobby, I hope to get my first steps right.

Thanks for reading!

Best regards,
Ramenik

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*_
I will get to the point. Since you ask me, I'll give you my opinion. It's mine and I make no apology if it defers from others here because there is only one UntilThen who will soon become The End. 

This is my recommendation:-

Glenn Super 9 OTL amplifier. Here is a picture.
 

Configuration:-


6 x 6BL7 or 2 / 4 x 6as7 or 2 x 6336 as power tubes
2 x L63 / 6J5 / 6C5 / 12J5
6.3 or 12.6 volts switch
Tube rectifier
5998 boost switch - FORGET ABOUT THIS. 5998 will still sound good without it and you'll save $100.
Lundahl transformer
Jupiters caps
Gold Point 47 steps attenuator

The first single socket is for your tube rectifier. 
The next 2 sockets are for your 2 x L63 or 6J5 or 6C5 or 12J5 drivers. 
The last 6 sockets are for your 6 x 6BX7 or 6BL7 power tubes. Or you can use 2 x 6as7g or 6080 as power tubes. Or you can use 2 x Cetron 6336b as power tubes.

Final approval by Glenn because I don't know if the tube rectifier in that front and centre position is doable ? If it is, then this is the GOTL that I would want if I have to order again because it would be BEAUTIFUL. More beautiful than Mona Lisa. 

Cheers
UT

PS: This configuration will use cheap drivers and equally cheap power tubes too.

For a start, 

Get a pair of GEC L63 https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/L63-CV1...m48a5d41812:g:BK8AAOSwH7ZdeoEt&frcectupt=true

Get a pair of power tubes. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MATCHED...m1cc88ded27:g:bJwAAOSw3NpcVElH&frcectupt=true

Ask Glenn to help you to get 6 x 6BX7 or 6BL7

Ask Glenn to supply you with one tube rectifier to start off with.

Lastly, after you get your amp, ask me or the others here any questions on what other tubes to get but go slow and just enjoy the music ... and the babies. Being a Dad, I know what it's like. You may have to share your headphones with the babies. 

Lastly, finally and definitely, wait patiently for your GOTL. Good luck.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Hello @Ramenik, welcome !
> 
> I'm going to answer your PM to me on the open forum because I know there will be others who will be asking the same questions. So I hope to answer these questions for the sake of other prospective Glenn OTL amp buyers at the same time.
> 
> ...



Nice suggestions, M.  Wow, 6J5 sockets now becoming the standard?  The winds of change are a-blowin'.  My only reservation is that means no 6N7 or ECC32, just something to consider.

@Ramenik feel free to ask questions in the thread, I am sure I speak for all when I say we are happy to help


----------



## JazzVinyl

@L0rdGwyn,

What did you change the bias resistor from/to on your 6J5 socket surgery?


----------



## Ramenik

wow thanks for introducing me to the community @UntilThen. really appreciate it as the first steps are always the hardest . Will take me awhile to digest all the information available in this thread. Something to think about until glenn can start on the amp. 

Before getting something, i usually like to research deeply and know what i am getting into before committing. think maybe it has something to do with my engineering background?  However, this tube thing is really beyond me with all the many different tubes and its purposes. So apologies to all in advance if i come across as relentless or excessively pertinacious.

@L0rdGwyn and @UntilThen  I think glenn has mentioned that he is using 2 x 6j5 instead of one 6ns7 as well. In fact, he mentioned that he is using the gec l63 that you recommended as well. can anybody enlighten me on the pros and cons between the two? i know 6j5 is just half of a 6ns7 so any difference might be tubes cost or longevity? on another similar note, is 6 x 6bx7 and 2 x 6as7g power tubes different in terms of sonics?

From my limited research, an extremely simplified demonstration of the otl amp is as follows: power from the socket goes into the transformer, ac rectified by rectifier stage to become dc, signal 'prepared' or preamped by driver tubes and then amplified and changed into ac by power tubes? Therefore, there are usually three classes of tubes, mainly rectifier, driver (preamp or input) and power (output). Please correct me if i am wrong.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> @L0rdGwyn,
> 
> What did you change the bias resistor from/to on your 6J5 socket surgery?



1 Kohm 1/2W



Ramenik said:


> @L0rdGwyn[/USER] and @UntilThen  I think glenn has mentioned that he is using 2 x 6j5 instead of one 6ns7 as well. In fact, he mentioned that he is using the gec l63 that you recommended as well. can anybody enlighten me on the pros and cons between the two? i know 6j5 is just half of a 6ns7 so any difference might be tubes cost or longevity? on another similar note, is 6 x 6bx7 and 2 x 6as7g power tubes different in terms of sonics?



Yes, Glenn is using 6J5, however he was using single triode #27 tubes before, so that is most likely why he switched to another single triode tube, he didn't change his amp from a 6SN7 to 6J5.  The jury is still out as far as sonic performance between 6J5 and 6SN7.  I think there is a sonic benefit to the 6J5, others have said they hear no difference.  Both tubes are still widely available, but the 6J5 has the advantage when it comes to cost as of right now, I have a feeling it will not last.

The typical setup for input tubes before the 6J5 came to prominence was a single 6SN7 socket with the 6/12/25V switch and a pair of C3g sockets.  In the 6SN7 socket, other double triode tubes like the 6N7/ECC31 (with adapter) and ECC32/33/35 can be used.  In the C3g sockets, other pentode tubes like the EL3N, EL11, EL8, and EL32 can be used with adapters.

So, if you go with the 6J5 setup, you will lose some flexibility in terms of tube rolling; only 6J5, 6C5, and 6P5 will be usable in these sockets.  I haven't investigated what other single triodes can be used with adapters yet.

In terms of the power tubes, many enjoy the 6x 6BX7 over the 2x 6AS7, there is definitely a difference in sonics, just a matter of preference.  With the six output socket setup, you can use either, so I would go for that if you prioritize maximum flexibility.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> 1 Kohm 1/2W
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can get a 6J5 to EL3N adapter I have a pair or to any of those other pentodes


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Nice suggestions, M.  Wow, 6J5 sockets now becoming the standard?  The winds of change are a-blowin'.  My only reservation is that means no 6N7 or ECC32, just something to consider.
> 
> @Ramenik feel free to ask questions in the thread, I am sure I speak for all when I say we are happy to help



Why no ECC32 or 6N7 they would go in the 6SN7 socket??


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Why no ECC32 or 6N7 they would go in the 6SN7 socket??



In @UntilThen 's suggested setup for @Ramenik he only included 6J5 sockets, no 6SN7.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Ramenik said:


> wow thanks for introducing me to the community @UntilThen. really appreciate it as the first steps are always the hardest . Will take me awhile to digest all the information available in this thread. Something to think about until glenn can start on the amp.
> 
> Before getting something, i usually like to research deeply and know what i am getting into before committing. think maybe it has something to do with my engineering background?  However, this tube thing is really beyond me with all the many different tubes and its purposes. So apologies to all in advance if i come across as relentless or excessively pertinacious.
> 
> ...



Hey there, to play the devil’s advocate. Get a GEL3N and forget about all the tube rolling “madness”.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> In @UntilThen 's suggested setup for @Ramenik he only included 6J5 sockets, no 6SN7.



Glenn's configuration is vastly more versatile.  No shame in using Deyan's adapter for 6/12J5 in the SN7 socket.  
Need the pin 1 to attach to ground?  Easy to do without surgery 

I like your amp LG, but I would not completely discount C3g, used with you Japanese 6AS7G or 5998's is a worthy roll, imho  

Cheers...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey there, to play the devil’s advocate. Get a GEL3N and forget about all the tube rolling “madness”.



Madness to some, fun and rewarding to most


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> I like your amp LG, but I would not completely discount C3g, used with you Japanese 6AS7G or 5998's is a worthy roll, imho



I have never discounted them!  A 6J5-only setup was not my idea, it was UT's.  The C3g is an excellent tube, and I was also disappointed I had not spent more time with the EL32 while listening before removing the sockets.  I may even keep a pair of C3g and use adapters for the 6J5 sockets.  I only made the change because I prefer the 6J5 overall, but there are so many great tubes for the GOTL, you cannot go wrong with any setup.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have never discounted them!  A 6J5-only setup was not my idea, it was UT's.  The C3g is an excellent tube, and I was also disappointed I had not spent more time with the EL32 while listening before removing the sockets.  I may even keep a pair of C3g and use adapters for the 6J5 sockets.  I only made the change because I prefer the 6J5 overall, but there are so many great tubes for the GOTL, you cannot go wrong with any setup.



A couple of questions related to this discussion.  First, I think your surgery converted the two C3g sockets to two 6J5 correct?  But did you still leave the single 6SN7 slot?  Or did that get converted to something else?

Second, if one were to use a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter, with nothing in the C3g slots, would that be equivalent to you using two 6J5s in your new slots and nothing in the 6SN7 slot?  Or are the 6J5 tubes biased differently in your new slots, which makes them better (or at least different) than using the adapter in the 6SN7 slot?

I have no plans to copy your surgery, just curious as to how your new setup compares to the old one.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 28, 2019)

GDuss said:


> A couple of questions related to this discussion.  First, I think your surgery converted the two C3g sockets to two 6J5 correct?  But did you still leave the single 6SN7 slot?  Or did that get converted to something else?
> 
> Second, if one were to use a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter, with nothing in the C3g slots, would that be equivalent to you using two 6J5s in your new slots and nothing in the 6SN7 slot?  Or are the 6J5 tubes biased differently in your new slots, which makes them better (or at least different) than using the adapter in the 6SN7 slot?
> 
> I have no plans to copy your surgery, just curious as to how your new setup compares to the old one.



Yes, two C3g sockets converted to 6J5 sockets.  The single 6SN7 socket remains, which I mostly use for ECC32 and 6N7.  The filament pins of the 6SN7 socket are now connected to the filament pins of the 6J5, so the 6/12/25V switch affects all three sockets.  

Using the 6J5 adapter in the 6SN7 slot is equivalent to using 6J5 specific sockets since the 6SN7 and 6J5 use the same cathode bias resistor.  The only caveat is pin 1 of the 6J5 sockets is grounded.  Many 6J5/6C5/6P5 tubes have metal internal or external shields tied to pin 1, so grounding that pin protects the tube from extraneous RFI.  It is not a necessity and you could have an adapter made to tie pin 1 to the cathode, which would also ground it.  Not sure if that is built into the Chinese adapters or not.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have never discounted them!  A 6J5-only setup was not my idea, it was UT's.  The C3g is an excellent tube, and I was also disappointed I had not spent more time with the EL32 while listening before removing the sockets.  I may even keep a pair of C3g and use adapters for the 6J5 sockets.  I only made the change because I prefer the 6J5 overall, but there are so many great tubes for the GOTL, you cannot go wrong with any setup.



Gotcha, I thought removing the C3g sockets meant no more C3g for you as you might have also re-biased for 6J5.

And agree, about "cannot go wrong" with a Glenn


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, two C3g sockets converted to 6J5 sockets.  The single 6SN7 socket remains, which I mostly use for ECC32 and 6N7.  The filament pins of the 6SN7 socket are now connected to the filament pins of the 6J5, so the 6/12/25V switch affects all three sockets.
> 
> Using the 6J5 adapter in the 6SN7 slot is equivalent to using 6J5 specific sockets since the 6SN7 and 6J5 use the same cathode bias resistor.  The only caveat is pin 1 of the 6J5 sockets is grounded.  Many 6J5/6C5/6P5 tubes have metal internal or external shields tied to pin 1, so grounding that pin protects the tube from extraneous RFI.  It is not a necessity and you could have an adapter made to tie pin 1 to the cathode, which would also ground it.  Not sure if that is built into the Chinese adapters or not.



Thanks for the details.  I didn't know about the 6/12/25V switch change you did also.  Your bravery continues to be revealed.

And now you could get completely ridiculous and put two 6J5 in your new sockets and then run two more 6J5 in the 6SN7 slot with a dual adapter .  Double the 6J5 love.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> Gotcha, I thought removing the C3g sockets meant no more C3g for you as you might have also re-biased for 6J5.
> 
> And agree, about "cannot go wrong" with a Glenn



They have been re-biased, but I think the C3g could still sound great with adapters, we will see!



GDuss said:


> Thanks for the details.  I didn't know about the 6/12/25V switch change you did also.  Your bravery continues to be revealed.
> 
> And now you could get completely ridiculous and put two 6J5 in your new sockets and then run two more 6J5 in the 6SN7 slot with a dual adapter .  Double the 6J5 love.



Wow a quad 6J5 setup, not sure what that would do for the sound of the amp, I am a little afraid to find out.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> They have been re-biased, but I think the C3g could still sound great with adapters, we will see!



Bang up job you did, LG!!  Congrats again!


----------



## UntilThen

Holy moly, I woke up today to find the thread has become a United Nations.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 28, 2019)

Ramenik said:


> wow thanks for introducing me to the community @UntilThen. really appreciate it as the first steps are always the hardest . Will take me awhile to digest all the information available in this thread. Something to think about until glenn can start on the amp.
> 
> Before getting something, i usually like to research deeply and know what i am getting into before committing. think maybe it has something to do with my engineering background?  However, this tube thing is really beyond me with all the many different tubes and its purposes. So apologies to all in advance if i come across as relentless or excessively pertinacious.
> 
> ...



My pleasure Nik. What you didn't tell me was that you're an engineer. I would have suggested something more Frankenstein ... ish.   The reason for my suggestion is because you said it's rather bewildering with all the different tubes and sockets configuration. So I thought I'll take out the c3g socket, stick in the dual 6J5 socket and for a bit of pure poetry and looks, add in a tube rectifier which is also great in sound and not just looks - the rectifier I mean.

So here are many other variations ( now you won't be confused because you're an engineer and engineers loves choices !!! ) :-

B choice)  - This is my GOTL.
Configuration:-

6 x 6BL7 or 2 / 4 x 6as7 or 2 x 6336 as power tubes
2 x c3g or one 6SN7 for either 6, 12 or 25 volts 6SN7
6.3 or 12.6 or 25.2 volts switch
Hexfred rectifier
5998 boost switch. - I have this 
Lundahl transformer
Russian caps
Gold Point 47 steps attenuator

C choice or Sophie's choice or @L0rdGwyn 's choice  
Configuration:-


6 x 6BL7 or 2 / 4 x 6as7 or 2 x 6336 as power tubes
2 x L63 / 6J5 / 6C5 / 12J5 - switchable between 6J5 or 12J5
one 6SN7 for 6, 12, 25 volts 6SN7
6.3 or 12.6 or 25.2 volts switch

Lundahl transformer
Jupiters caps
Gold Point 47 steps attenuator

D choice or @Sound Trooper 's and @whirlwind's choice (he's your countryman too)  
An OTC amp using EL3N tubes - EL3N driving EL3N. Very pretty and good looking amp - simple and no tube rolling.


E choice - @leftside and @TonyNewman 's choice  :-
Glenn 300b amp


F choice - @UntilThen  next amp from Glenn choice  :-
Berlin - similar to EL3N amp but using Telefunken EL11 and EL12 spez tubes. But trust me these grey dignified tubes looks better than the red 'driving Miss Daisy' EL3N tubes !


G choice - @DecentLevi 's El Darwin  :-
6SN7 and dual 6J5 using KT66, EL34, EL38, EL39, 6L6, 5881, EL12 spez, KT77, 6V6 power tubes. This one is about evolution.  But very flexible. 


H choice - @leftside 's orginal idea (he's got patent on this)
L63 / 6J5 / 6C5 with EL34 or KT66 power tubes

Some of us will copy Leftside soon because who cares about patents !!!
So I'll have 'Sydney' in a year's time that is similar to Lefty's patent.  @whirlwind  having something similar too. DecentLevi's choice is based on this too.


I choice - deary me I forgot @Xcalibur255 's choice - there's only one in the world.
OTC based on 45 tubes !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Lastly Nik, you can buy my Sansui that is made of pure gold and weigh 32 kgs. It's fully balanced solid state !!! Tubeless and more sexy trust me. The sound is pure classic Sansui - made in the Golden Age of Audio.


----------



## UntilThen

All quiet on the Western front here. What happened?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

(....continues listening to GOTL in placid silence....)


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> (....continues listening to GOTL in placid silence....)



Hello darkness my old friend....
I’ve come to talk to you again....
Because in visions softly creeping.....
Left it’s seed while I was sleeping.....

Can you hear my singing?


----------



## mordy (Oct 28, 2019)

Hi LG,
So there I was prodding a WWII battle field with a metal detector when I heard a ping. After digging down a foot, I found this:





It is a 6C5 Ken-Rad and as bad as it looks, that's how good it sounds.
Reminds me of a half restored car I saw at Reynold's Car Museum in Alberta, Canada:



The difference is that this tube works and measures very well.
So how to restore it?
Black nail polish? Black tape? Red shrink wrap (to compete with JV's special edition 6BX7)? Leave it alone?
In another shipment that arrived today I found a mesh beauty:



This is a 6C5G labeled Zenith with a date code 6  I (Sept 1946 - earlier?)
Got in 10 tubes 6J5/6C5 but have only listened to a couple so far.
PS: The first sentence is fake - don't believe it! The seller just said "corroded."


----------



## L0rdGwyn

(...silently ignores @UntilThen ...)



Oh just kidding, I am doing some tube hunting at the moment, only just returned from a hard day's work!  Exhausted.

I am doing some cathartic tube shopping, pulling the trigger on some wishlist items...



mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> So there I was prodding a WWII battle field with a metal detector when I heard a ping. After digging down a foot, I found this:
> 
> 
> ...



WOW mordy! That is wild, the tubes are coming to you, who needs to hunt them.  I wonder what kind of equipment that Ken-Rad was being used in...

And that Sylvania is very sharp, I have had my eye on some of those early Zenith tubes, all made by Sylvania from what I have seen.  Let us know how it sounds


----------



## L0rdGwyn

For those exotic tube chasers, stay away from the Ferranti 6J5G.  They are not, in fact, made in England.

I was looking them over and thought the plates and heat fins looked familiar...OH now I remember!

They are Raytheon 6J5WGT plates, and made in the USA


----------



## gibosi (Oct 28, 2019)

mordy said:


> This is a 6C5G labeled Zenith with a date code 6 I (Sept 1946 - earlier?)



Yes, earlier. Zenith converted to printed bases around 1938, and this one is hot-stamped. But you got the code logic right. "6' is 1936 and "I" is the month of September.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> For those exotic tube chasers, stay away from the Ferranti 6J5G.  They are not, in fact, made in England.
> 
> I was looking them over and thought the plates and heat fins looked familiar...OH now I remember!
> 
> They are Raytheon 6J5WGT plates, and made in the USA



Keep these tips coming.  I will soon join the 6J5 party, adapter is on the way!!!


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Yes, earlier. Zenith converted to printed bases around 1938, and this one is hot-stamped. But you got the code logic right. "6' is 1936 and "I" is the month of September.


WOW - the first year they come out with the 6C5G! This is the oldest tube I have....


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> WOW - the first year they come out with the 6C5G! This is the oldest tube I have....



Yeah! It's even older than you! lol


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Yeah! It's even older than you! lol


Yes, they got ten years on me....


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> (...silently ignores @UntilThen ...)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You lost that lovely feeling.....
Woah that lovely feeling.......
You lost that lovely feeling now it’s gone, gone, gone
Oh oh ooo ah ooo ah ....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Have another picture to share, here we have Fivre 6C5G and Mullard 6080 before bed.  I've always felt the Mullard was one of the best 6080s, prices on these have gone up astronomically over the past two years or so.  And they are very pretty!


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Have another picture to share, here we have Fivre 6C5G and Mullard 6080 before bed.  I've always felt the Mullard was one of the best 6080s, prices on these have gone up astronomically over the past two years or so.  And they are very pretty!


Are you noticing any difference in sound quality in dedicated sockets vs adapters for the 6C5/6J5? I'm guessing not, but does look neater.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 28, 2019)

leftside said:


> Are you noticing any difference in sound quality in dedicated sockets vs adapters for the 6C5/6J5? I'm guessing not, but does look neater.



Hmmm I had not taken the time to compare.  I have the day off tomorrow, I will investigate it over a good cup of coffee 

And thanks, I think it does look neater.  One impetus for using black sockets was knowing the 6SN7 would be empty quite often, I was hoping it would blend in more nicely, and I think it does!


----------



## mordy

Is there something that can be used to cover up empty sockets? Obviously, it is only for aesthetics.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy, try Coca Cola bottle caps. It’s nice.


----------



## TonyNewman




----------



## Ramenik

L0rdGwyn said:


> The typical setup for input tubes before the 6J5 came to prominence was a single 6SN7 socket with the 6/12/25V switch and a pair of C3g sockets. In the 6SN7 socket, other double triode tubes like the 6N7/ECC31 (with adapter) and ECC32/33/35 can be used. In the C3g sockets, other pentode tubes like the EL3N, EL11, EL8, and EL32 can be used with adapters.



Seems like the dual c3g with 6sn7 is the 'default' for most as it seems to be very flexible with the plethora of adapters available



Sound Trooper said:


> Hey there, to play the devil’s advocate. Get a GEL3N and forget about all the tube rolling “madness”.



It is certainly very enticing. I think the gel3n looks great and elegant as well. For el3n tubes, are there only the philips tubes? As a potential first time tube user, im still deciding whether to go down this tube rolling 'rabbit hole'.



UntilThen said:


> My pleasure Nik. What you didn't tell me was that you're an engineer. I would have suggested something more Frankenstein ... ish.  The reason for my suggestion is because you said it's rather bewildering with all the different tubes and sockets configuration. So I thought I'll take out the c3g socket, stick in the dual 6J5 socket and for a bit of pure poetry and looks, add in a tube rectifier which is also great in sound and not just looks - the rectifier I mean.
> 
> So here are many other variations ( now you won't be confused because you're an engineer and engineers loves choices !!! ) :-



Wow ut, thanks for distilling the members amp into one message. right now the trend seems to be 6j5 with @L0rdGwyn even performing surgery on his amp.

@leftside idea also struck a chord with me as i briefly remembered being floored by a friends primaluna dialogue hp using el34 tubes to drive his tower speakers. i remembered it being very very musical sounding and enjoyable.



UntilThen said:


> I choice - deary me I forgot @Xcalibur255 's choice - there's only one in the world.
> OTC based on 45 tubes !!!



PICS PLEASE


----------



## Ramenik

One more question, does leaving the 2 c3g sockets empty Vs filling it together with a 6sn7 affect the output power or is it another way to tube roll?


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 29, 2019)

Ramenik said:


> Seems like the dual c3g with 6sn7 is the 'default' for most as it seems to be very flexible with the plethora of adapters available
> 
> *When I started talking to Glenn about an OTL amp, there were I think 2 to 3 that were already made with a tube rectifier, one 6sn7, 2 x c3g and 6 x 6bx7gt.
> 
> ...



Here's a picture of @Xcalibur255 's Glenn 45 OTC amp. https://www.landfallsystems.com/index.php?content=gallery/gengal&id=21#prettyPhoto


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 29, 2019)

Ok I'm a retard .... I need to edit the above post because I put everything together.... one second. I'll make in bold my reply.

Expand my above post and you'll see my reply in bold.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 29, 2019)

Ramenik said:


> @leftside idea also struck a chord with me as i briefly remembered being floored by a friends primaluna dialogue hp using el34 tubes to drive his tower speakers. i remembered it being very very musical sounding and enjoyable.



I want to talk about the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP stereo integrated amp that also has a headphone output. I have this amp in my possession for about 4 months. In that period, I was auditioning it with Ragnarok and Redgum RGI120ENR black series. All 3 amps were in my lounge room and I compare them driving my Axis LS88 floor standers.

The PL uses 6 12au7 (if I remember correctly) and 8 x KT88 !!! Just prior to selling it, I was thinking of buying 8 x EL34 and 8 x KT150 power tubes for the PL. The PL driving my floor standers sounded very neutral and solid state like. Very surprising. Of the 3 amps, I like the Redgum the most with my speakers because of the texture and bass.

However the PL with my HD800 sounded amazing ! Gives a full body tone to the otherwise clinical HD800. H800 btw sounded soooo good with the GOTL, Studio Six and WA22 (with good tubes).

These are some pictures of the PL when I had it. Sometimes I wish I hadn't sold it off. Makes a beautiful headphone amp.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 29, 2019)

Ramenik said:


> One more question, does leaving the 2 c3g sockets empty Vs filling it together with a 6sn7 affect the output power or is it another way to tube roll?



I've tried 2 x Mullard EL32 as drivers by itself. I have also tried a single Mullard ECC33 as driver in GOTL. And I've also tried the ECC33 and dual EL32 together as drivers in the OTL amp.

First observation is that together, the amp's gain increase. Not power but gain. Apart from that I see no advantage.

Using the EL32s by themselves and the ECC33 by itself sounded beautiful. I see no reason to combine them. Remember Glenn did not originally intended for them to be combined as drivers. There are some who discovered it and seem to like it tremendously. Not to my ears.

As an aside, imagine the EC Zana Deux has a single 6SL7 and dual EL32 as input drivers.... I don't think Craig the designer of EC amps would ever design a OTL amp like the EC Zana Deux to use triplet drivers. Is it necessary? No. Does it produce better SQ? No.


----------



## UntilThen

Lastly a touchy subject but I'll touch on it anyway. In 2012, Nick in the Bottlehead Crack forum, produce a list of his favourite power tubes and rank them accordingly. http://the-key.enix.org/~krystal/review-tube-bottlehead.html

I don't follow others impressions blindly but in this instance, after 2 years of using these power tubes, I'm in total agreement with Nick as to the power tubes ranking. 

There have been a lot of praise for the RCA 6as7g and RCA 6080 and Svetlana 6h13c on this thread. Whilst these are not rubbish like the original chinese tubes that came with the La Figaro 339, there are much better power tubes and not IMO - it's a fact. See Nick's ranking.

My top 4 power tubes of the 6as7 / 6080 variety are:-

GEC 6as7g
Tung Sol 5998
Bendix 6080wb
GEC 6080

If I had WE421A, it would likely be amongst the top tubes too.

In any case, I'm about to spin off from 6as7 / 6080 as I look at the pentodes as strapped triodes. Tubes such as the EL12, EL12 spez, EL34, KT66, KT77, KT88, 6L6, 5881, etc will be my next playground. Fortunately I haven't venture off into 2A3 or 300b tubes yet or maybe never because getting NOS tubes of those will be mega bucks. Besides I think EL34 and KT66 will hold a candle to the 2A3 or 300b. Of course in a Glenn's OTC, it's not just the tubes themselves....


----------



## Sound Trooper

Ramenik said:


> It is certainly very enticing. I think the gel3n looks great and elegant as well. For el3n tubes, are there only the philips tubes? As a potential first time tube user, im still deciding whether to go down this tube rolling 'rabbit hole'.



Hey there, you have an open invitation to come listen to the GEL3N. Just drop me a PM.


----------



## UntilThen

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey there, you have an open invitation to come listen to the GEL3N. Just drop me a PM.



Wait for meeeee. I'm coming.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey there, you have an open invitation to come listen to the GEL3N. Just drop me a PM.




Great invitation.

@Ramenik  you may want to use this invitation , could be of great help to you...nothing like hearing it for yourself.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, try Coca Cola bottle caps. It’s nice.


Sorry - I have to avoid all sugary drinks.


----------



## UntilThen

@Monsterzero  I have to stop looking at the classifieds. https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/295029-fs-custom-lampizator-amber-2-r2r-volume-control/


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Here are some of the tubes I purchased last night on my 6J5 shoppping spree - early Fivre black plate 6J5GT.  Have been watching this pair for a long time.

 

1937 Zenith (Sylvania) 6J5G, similar to @mordy 's 6C5G above, inspired me to pull the trigger.  Plates are the same smooth black round plates in my Sylvania VT-94D metal base.

 

My own pair of Ken-Rad 6J5GT, the lead-bellies.

 

Been meaning to get a pair of these for a long time, they are an essential but dragged my feet since they show up quite often.  STC/Brimar 6J5G, early black plate pair.  I overpayed for these, passed on the opportunity for a quad for the same price in the past, but they are immaculate and in original boxes, so what the heck.

 

More to come


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 29, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Lastly a touchy subject but I'll touch on it anyway. In 2012, Nick in the Bottlehead Crack forum, produce a list of his favourite power tubes and rank them accordingly. http://the-key.enix.org/~krystal/review-tube-bottlehead.html
> 
> I don't follow others impressions blindly but in this instance, after 2 years of using these power tubes, I'm in total agreement with Nick as to the power tubes ranking.
> 
> ...



That power tube list has probably driven the sales of low Rp output tubes for years, it's famous!  But Nick forgot two tubes in the upper echelon, the Tung-Sol 7802 and Nippon Electric 6AS7G/6520 

I might be the USA's chief importer of NEC 6AS7G, if I get enough, hoping to distribute some among GOTL owners, they are very nice tubes and cheap overseas.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here are some of the tubes I purchased last night on my 6J5 shoppping spree - early Fivre black plate 6J5GT.  Have been watching this pair for a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You probably already have scoured the web, but in case of use - the guys @ Billington seem to have a quantity of 6J5s  https://web211.secure-secure.co.uk/tube-and-valve-electronics.co.uk/downloads/Cat Oct 2019 v1.pdf

If you email them they are good about letting you know exactly what they have on the shelf.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> That power tube list has probably driven the sales of low Rp output tubes for years, it's famous!  But Nick forgot two tubes in the upper echelon, the Tung-Sol 7802 and Nippon Electric 6AS7G/6520
> 
> I might be the USA's chief importer of NEC 6AS7G, if I get enough, hoping to distribute some among GOTL owners, they are very nice tubes and cheap overseas.



Don't forget people who used to own the GOTL as well.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> You probably already have scoured the web, but in case of use - the guys @ Billington seem to have a quantity of 6J5s  https://web211.secure-secure.co.uk/tube-and-valve-electronics.co.uk/downloads/Cat Oct 2019 v1.pdf
> 
> If you email them they are good about letting you know exactly what they have on the shelf.



Thanks, Chris, I have bought from Martin at Billington before, very nice guy and has an amazing collection of tubes.



Phantaminum said:


> Don't forget people who used to own the GOTL as well.



Once a member, always a member


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 29, 2019)

Tung-Sol 6SN7GT black glass round plate is for sale, it is a 1948 Raytheon rebrand.  Tests 107% / 109%, very low hours $150 plus shipping, this is what I paid for the tube.  I am selling some other 6SN7s soon too, I was planning to keep my rarest ones, but I sold a few and now the flood gates are opening, saying goodbye.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> The difference is that this tube works and measures very well.
> So how to restore it?
> Black nail polish? Black tape? Red shrink wrap (to compete with JV's special edition 6BX7)?



I would knock the rust off, mask the pins with tape, then spray paint with "high heat" paint.  Lime green would look good.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Have another picture to share, here we have Fivre 6C5G and Mullard 6080 before bed.  I've always felt the Mullard was one of the best 6080s, prices on these have gone up astronomically over the past two years or so.  And they are very pretty!



Looks great!


----------



## gibosi

Ramenik said:


> It is certainly very enticing. I think the gel3n looks great and elegant as well. For el3n tubes, are there only the philips tubes? As a potential first time tube user, im still deciding whether to go down this tube rolling 'rabbit hole'.



Well first, Philips manufactured the EL3N in at least four different factories -- Eindhoven, Holland; Blackburn/Mullard, England; Vienna/WIRAG, Austria and Loewe Opta, Berlin. And tubes manufactured in these factories all sound different. Further, browsing eBay listings, you will see Belvu-Mazda, Tungsram, Visseaux and perhaps others. So it is certainly possible to roll different EL3N. Plus, with adapters, it is possible to roll EL34 and similar pentodes. So while the 'rabbit hole' is not as wide and deep as that of the GOTL, it's certainly big enough to jump in. lol


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I would knock the rust off, mask the pins with tape, then spray paint with "high heat" paint.  Lime green would look good.


What is a good way of removing the rust?
They run pretty cool so I don’t think high temp paint is necessary.
The pins were fairly clean so I surmise that the tube was stored in a humid environment. Quite a lot of these tubes have rust on them to various degrees which translates into bargain prices.
The all metal tube was more expensive to manufacture than tubes with a glass envelope and that’s why they seem to be disappearing by US manufacturers at the beginning of the 50’s.
Look, if you drop one it is unlikely to break!


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Well first, Philips manufactured the EL3N in at least four different factories -- Eindhoven, Holland; Blackburn/Mullard, England; Vienna/WIRAG, Austria and Loewe Opta, Berlin. And tubes manufactured in these factories all sound different. Further, browsing eBay listings, you will see Belvu-Mazda, Tungsram, Visseaux and perhaps others. So it is certainly possible to roll different EL3N. Plus, with adapters, it is possible to roll EL34 and similar pentodes. So while the 'rabbit hole' is not as wide and deep as that of the GOTL, it's certainly big enough to jump in. lol


Can you roll EL8 and EL6?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Can you roll EL8 and EL6?



As I don't have a GEL3N, I don't know for sure... But in a private message, Whirlwind told me that the EL8 were much too noisy in his GEL3N.


----------



## mordy

If you have a six cylinder old car with a distributor I have a tip on how to jazz up the performance:
RCA Electron Tube Distributor
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-Electr...006495?hash=item5449f465df:g:Gc0AAOSwjRpZTWZC


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I got my giant box of Japanese tubes today 

Was most excited to compare the Nippon Electric 6520 to the 6AS7G, bought two pairs of them.  Impressions after doing some back and forth swapping for about an hour is they do have a little more air and less distortion!  Very nice sounding power tubes.  I am now wondering how close they are to the GEC 6AS7G ...my Crackatwoa sold today, so I will have to compare them before I ship it off, it takes a single output tube and I only have one GEC 6AS7G.  I think I now know why I got into a bidding war over a pair of these tubes.

 

The other tube I was excited to try is the Nippon Electric 6080.  I bought a set of 10 untested for $35.  The first two I grabbed passed in my tester, popped them in and one died within minutes and the other arced lol.  Saying goodbye to that pair, luckily the second one I tried appeared safe after about an hour of testing with crappy headphones.

First impression of the NEC 6080 is it is good, for a 6080.  A little bright, but overall nice sounding.  Nowhere near the airiness of the 6AS7G or 6520 though, I definitely have to do some more listening to see where they fall in the 6080 lineup for me.  I have promised these to some GOTL threaders, will have to make absolutely sure they are safe to use before sending, the first pair gave me a scare.


----------



## mordy (Oct 29, 2019)

Another discovery found serendipitously - metal tubes take longer to warm up than glass tubes.
How do I know? I am just starting to explore the 6C5/6J5 possibilities and am trying odd single tubes in pairs. In two instances using one glass tube and one metal tube in combination (at least same designation and brand lol) the metal tube did not sound good at all. Then suddenly it came up to speed and sounded (very) similar.
Preliminary findings are that it may be possible to get the sound of much more expensive dual 6SN7 type tubes at a fraction of the cost by combining two predecessor triodes.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I got my giant box of Japanese tubes today
> 
> Was most excited to compare the Nippon Electric 6520 to the 6AS7G, bought two pairs of them.  Impressions after doing some back and forth swapping for about an hour is they do have a little more air and less distortion!  Very nice sounding power tubes.  I am now wondering how close they are to the GEC 6AS7G ...my Crackatwoa sold today, so I will have to compare them before I ship it off, it takes a single output tube and I only have one GEC 6AS7G.  I think I now know why I got into a bidding war over a pair of these tubes.
> 
> ...


Johnnysound on the Euforia thread has the NEC 6080 and likes them.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> That power tube list has probably driven the sales of low Rp output tubes for years, it's famous! But Nick forgot two tubes in the upper echelon, the Tung-Sol 7802 and Nippon Electric 6AS7G/6520



The discerning ones will know which are the better sounding power tubes. Nick did a service to the community but unfortunately drove the price of tubes like the GEC 6as7g sky high and has become almost extinct. However he's not the only one to extol the virtues of such tubes. Stavros in his private correspondence with me, told me the GEC 6as7g is the best you can get out of the 6as7 the world. Having heard them and compare with the other power tubes, I agree and not because everyone is saying so.

Japan produced a lot of good audio gear so I'm not surprised that their tubes are good. There's a legend of Sansui, Yamaha, Luxman, Denon, Pioneer vintage amp lovers who regularly import these amps from Japan. Even speakers. I've heard the Diatone DS-3000 which sounded amazing driven by the Sansui au-alpha 907mr, the amp I eventually bought. Almost bought the Diatone too but my present accommodation is best suited for the Axis VoiceBox S monitor on stands.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> The discerning ones will know which are the better sounding power tubes. Nick did a service to the community but unfortunately drove the price of tubes like the GEC 6as7g sky high and has become almost extinct. However he's not the only one to extol the virtues of such tubes. Stavros in his private correspondence with me, told me the GEC 6as7g is the best you can get out of the 6as7 the world. Having heard them and compare with the other power tubes, I agree and not because everyone is saying so.
> 
> Japan produced a lot of good audio gear so I'm not surprised that their tubes are good. There's a legend of Sansui, Yamaha, Luxman, Denon, Pioneer vintage amp lovers who regularly import these amps from Japan. Even speakers. I've heard the Diatone DS-3000 which sounded amazing driven by the Sansui au-alpha 907mr, the amp I eventually bought. Almost bought the Diatone too but my present accommodation is best suited for the Axis VoiceBox S monitor on stands.



Yes, almost extinct.  Will I ever find a match for my black base cup getter GEC 6AS7G?  I have been holding out hope I will come across one rather than seeking out a pair.  I am saying goodbye to my Crackatwoa, which means saying goodbye to my GEC as well, until I can find him a partner for the GOTL.




My top 6AS7 types, in no particular order:

GEC 6AS7G
Western Electric 421A
Tung-Sol 7802
Nippon Electric 6520
Bendix 6080WB


----------



## UntilThen

K, I can sell you my recently acquired single GEC 6as7g that is ultra silent and looks new but I wasn’t given any reading...,

after I buy my pair of GEC 6as7g back from Monster.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh mine is brown curve base... paired with your black base, it’s the world’s first Panda.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 29, 2019)

I do appreciate the offer, but I am hoping to match it for construction.  Will be difficult since it is a less common black base.  I will likely end up buying a pair, but my focus now is on my GOTL modifications and planning for my still unnamed SET amp.  Goldpoint goes in tomorrow.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> As I don't have a GEL3N, I don't know for sure... But in a private message, Whirlwind told me that the EL8 were much too noisy in his GEL3N.



Correct, mine would not quiet down and they were more than a little noisy.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Another discovery found serendipitously - metal tubes take longer to warm up than glass tubes.
> How do I know? I am just starting to explore the 6C5/6J5 possibilities and am trying odd single tubes in pairs. In two instances using one glass tube and one metal tube in combination (at least same designation and brand lol) the metal tube did not sound good at all. Then suddenly it came up to speed and sounded (very) similar.
> Preliminary findings are that it may be possible to get the sound of much more expensive dual 6SN7 type tubes at a fraction of the cost by combining two predecessor triodes.



I will be watching these developments as well.  This is an interesting experiment you are running.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here are some of the tubes I purchased last night on my 6J5 shoppping spree - early Fivre black plate 6J5GT.  Have been watching this pair for a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have been watching for a pair of those Ken Rad metal base tubes, but have not found a pair that I like yet....yours look very nice.

Must be tube day in Ohio today as I came home from work to a haul also.

Sylvania 6J5GT Metal Base
 


Tung Sol 6J5GT Metal Base
 


National Union 6J5GT Metal Base
 


GEC KT66

 


I have a date night tonight with my wife for dinner.
I will be up late tonight listening...had some new music come  today also.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> I've tried 2 x Mullard EL32 as drivers by itself. I have also tried a single Mullard ECC33 as driver in GOTL. And I've also tried the ECC33 and dual EL32 together as drivers in the OTL amp.
> 
> First observation is that together, the amp's gain increase. Not power but gain. Apart from that I see no advantage.
> 
> ...



I am currently in the process of running this experiment for myself.  As you point out, there are people who like this driver triplet and those that don't.  So the only way to find out which group I'm in is to try it.  I'll report back on this when I have enough time with each combination to make a conclusion.  For reference, I'm doing this with a Ken Rad 12SN7GT Black Glass, 2x Philips Miniwatt EL32 using adapters from Mrs. Xu, and 2x GEC 6AS7G power tubes.  It's possible that the choice of tubes for this experiment will have a big influence on the outcome, but that's what I'm using.  The plan is to try the driver triplet compared to the KR alone and the EL32s alone, without changing out the power tube.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> I have been watching for a pair of those Ken Rad metal base tubes, but have not found a pair that I like yet....yours look very nice.
> 
> Must be tube day in Ohio today as I came home from work to a haul also.
> 
> ...



Wow, what a haul!  Looks great, the plates in those Tung-Sols are the same as the ones I sent you, and those NU tubes look very sharp and brand new.

Very interested to hear your impressions of the smokey KT-66 versus EL34 in your GEL3N.


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Tung-Sol 6SN7GT black glass round plate is for sale, it is a 1948 Raytheon rebrand.  Tests 107% / 109%, very low hours $150 plus shipping, this is what I paid for the tube.  I am selling some other 6SN7s soon too, I was planning to keep my rarest ones, but I sold a few and now the flood gates are opening, saying goodbye.



If I may ask...... Are the grid posts on this one copper or steel?


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> I have been watching for a pair of those Ken Rad metal base tubes, but have not found a pair that I like yet....yours look very nice.
> 
> Must be tube day in Ohio today as I came home from work to a haul also.
> 
> ...


Yes nice haul! Includes the super rare/mispress KT66 with 'SB' on one side and 'SC' on the other 

I too had a few tubes arrive today. Pair of Ken Rad 6C5G, pair of Fivre 6C5GT and a bunch of Fivre 6L6G black base - pair with foil getter and pair with double D getters. Glass shapes are different as well. And even though I promised myself I wouldn't buy any more KT66, a local NOS black base/smoked glass with large/intact round 'Osram' sticker appeared locally. I couldn't resist... but not sure if I'll ever be able to find a matching one...


----------



## Velozity

Well, my GOTL arrives tomorrow!  I'm celebrating the last day of enjoying my Audiotailor Jade by rolling in my best tubes.  Man what a combo.  Farewell my friend, a new era begins!


----------



## GDuss

Velozity said:


> Well, my GOTL arrives tomorrow!  I'm celebrating the last day of enjoying my Audiotailor Jade by rolling in my best tubes.  Man what a combo.  Farewell my friend, a new era begins!



Very exciting.  I'm sure everyone is looking forward to more photos of the wood GOTL.  Do you have a companion for the GEC tube?  That brown base will look nice with the wood frame.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 29, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> If I may ask...... Are the grid posts on this one copper or steel?



Steel.  My entire 6SN7 collection is going on sale.  If there is something specific someone is looking for, let me know.  Otherwise they will be sacrificed to the Lyr 3 thread.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Steel.  My entire 6SN7 collection is going on sale.  If there is something specific someone is looking for, let me know.  Otherwise they will be sacrificed to the Lyr 3 thread.


Any B65 left?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> Any B65 left?



Sorry, I never sought out the B65/36 since I owned the L63.  I also do not have the ECC33, and my pair of Brimar CV1988 have already been sold.


----------



## Velozity

GDuss said:


> Very exciting.  I'm sure everyone is looking forward to more photos of the wood GOTL.  Do you have a companion for the GEC tube?  That brown base will look nice with the wood frame.




Yes I do have a pair of the GEC.  I'm stoked to finally be able to use both together.  I will certainly post some good pics!


----------



## Xcalibur255

UntilThen said:


> Here's a picture of @Xcalibur255 's Glenn 45 OTC amp. https://www.landfallsystems.com/index.php?content=gallery/gengal&id=21#prettyPhoto



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2054#post-15194257

Here's a link to the post I shared a couple of months ago too.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Steel.  My entire 6SN7 collection is going on sale.  If there is something specific someone is looking for, let me know.  Otherwise they will be sacrificed to the Lyr 3 thread.


 I just read that the 7802 is technically 6Sn7. So you will sell me a pair,right?!?


----------



## Velozity (Oct 29, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sorry, I never sought out the B65/36 since I owned the L63.  I also do not have the ECC33, and my pair of Brimar CV1988 have already been sold.




Do you have an ECC32?  That one is also on my short list (as is the B65).  Good deal on the TS BGRP.  It's my favorite so far, with ECC33 a close second and TS 6SU7GTY / TS mouse ears tied for third.


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Steel.  My entire 6SN7 collection is going on sale.  If there is something specific someone is looking for, let me know.  Otherwise they will be sacrificed to the Lyr 3 thread.



Aww.  I might have jumped on that if they were copper.  I wouldn't mind having a single to put in the OTL.  

It might be all in my head but the steel ones seem more dry in the mids to me.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 29, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> I have been watching for a pair of those Ken Rad metal base tubes, but have not found a pair that I like yet....yours look very nice.
> 
> Must be tube day in Ohio today as I came home from work to a haul also.
> 
> ...



Wowzers!!  Nice haul there Joe!  Can't wait to hear the listening report!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Velozity said:


> Do you have an ECC32?  That one is also on my short list (as is the B65).  Good deal on the TS BGRP.  It's my favorite so far, with ECC33 a close second and TS mouse ears / Sylvania metal-base tied for third.



I do have ECC32, but they are not technically 6SN7, so they stay  sorry!  Highly recommend them, but they are bonkers expensive.



Monsterzero said:


> I just read that the 7802 is technically 6Sn7. So you will sell me a pair,right?!?



Lol my 7802s are in a safe sealed into the concrete of the basement, I just put them back, I can't get them out again for at least a year!  Sorry D


----------



## whirlwind

OK...they light up. time to listen to a few albums.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Lol my 7802s are in a safe sealed into the concrete of the basement, I just put them back, I can't get them out again for at least a year!  Sorry D



Damn,my Jedi Mind Control is losing its effectiveness!


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sorry, I never sought out the B65/36 since I owned the L63.  I also do not have the ECC33, and my pair of Brimar CV1988 have already been sold.


Too bad.

You may have a future amp needs these tubes. Who knows.


----------



## mordy (Oct 29, 2019)

GDuss said:


> I will be watching these developments as well.  This is an interesting experiment you are running.


Hi GDuss,
So far I have rolled Sylvanias, Ken-Rads and National Union of the 6C5 and 6J5 varietes glass and metal. Don't know yet if there is a marked difference between 6C5 and 6J5 tubes and between metal and glass.
What I noticed is that the "house sound" seems to be there, whatever that means.
Re triple drivers JV told me that some headphones don't like triple drivers (no correspondence to ohm ratings). I put in a pair of 1939-40(?) Tung Sol Mesh 6C5GT/T and was disappointed at how they sounded compared to the Syls, K-R and the NU. One is also noisy - have to try a heat treatment later.
Then it fell into my mind (even though I listen via speakers) that maybe the TS tubes don't like competition and pulled out the pair of TFK tubes. Voila! Sounds much better!
Now, if Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plate (TSBGRP) is good, shouldn't Tung Sol Clear Glass Round Mesh Plate  (TSCGRMP or TSGRMP for short) sound better? But one channel sounds like late summer with the crickets making noise in the background....
Otherwise very good - first impression at least.
Another episode on the TD (Tube Discovery) channel......
And now the obligatory picture - the TS tubes stand guard over the BX minions:



Look UT - no tubes in the C3g sockets!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 29, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi GDuss,
> So far I have rolled Sylvanias, Ken-Rads and National Union of the 6C5 and 6J5 varietes glass and metal. Don't know yet if there is a marked difference between 6C5 and 6J5 tubes and between metal and glass.
> What I noticed is that the "house sound" seems to be there, whatever that means.
> Re triple drivers JV told me that some headphones don't like triple drivers (no correspondence to ohm ratings). I put in a pair of 1939-40(?) Tung Sol Mesh 6C5GT/T and was disappointed at how they sounded compared to the Syls, K-R and the NU. One is also noisy - have to try a heat treatment later.
> ...



Those mesh plates are awesome!  Make them look armored, ready for battle.


----------



## Ramenik

UntilThen said:


> Here's a picture of @Xcalibur255 's Glenn 45 OTC amp. https://www.landfallsystems.com/index.php?content=gallery/gengal&id=21#prettyPhoto



Thanks!



UntilThen said:


> These are some pictures of the PL when I had it. Sometimes I wish I hadn't sold it off. Makes a beautiful headphone amp.



It certainly is a beautiful amp. My limited but wonderful experience with this amp might just push me to use 12au7 and el34



Sound Trooper said:


> Hey there, you have an open invitation to come listen to the GEL3N. Just drop me a PM.





whirlwind said:


> Great invitation.
> 
> @Ramenik you may want to use this invitation , could be of great help to you...nothing like hearing it for yourself.



I might just take u up on that if I didn't live halfway across the globe from the states 



gibosi said:


> Well first, Philips manufactured the EL3N in at least four different factories -- Eindhoven, Holland; Blackburn/Mullard, England; Vienna/WIRAG, Austria and Loewe Opta, Berlin. And tubes manufactured in these factories all sound different. Further, browsing eBay listings, you will see Belvu-Mazda, Tungsram, Visseaux and perhaps others. So it is certainly possible to roll different EL3N. Plus, with adapters, it is possible to roll EL34 and similar pentodes. So while the 'rabbit hole' is not as wide and deep as that of the GOTL, it's certainly big enough to jump in. lol



These tubes all have very interesting history. And jump in I will lol. Definitely looking forward to it.



Xcalibur255 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2054#post-15194257
> 
> Here's a link to the post I shared a couple of months ago too.



Thank you so much!



whirlwind said:


> OK...they light up. time to listen to a few albums.



Is this the gel3n but using kt66 sockets as output?


----------



## UntilThen

Ramenik said:


> I might just take u up on that if I didn't live halfway across the globe from the states



@Sound Trooper who invited you is from Singapore, the island with swaying coconut trees and lovely exotic food. I was from there too ... many years ago and will be making a visit next June.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> Too bad.
> 
> You may have a future amp needs these tubes. Who knows.



I guess I will have to use ECC32 instead


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Re triple drivers JV told me that some headphones don't like triple drivers (no correspondence to ohm ratings). I put in a pair of 1939-40(?) Tung Sol Mesh 6C5GT/T and was disappointed at how they sounded compared to the Syls, K-R and the NU. One is also noisy - have to try a heat treatment later.
> Then it fell into my mind (even though I listen via speakers) that maybe the TS tubes don't like competition and pulled out the pair of TFK tubes. Voila! Sounds much better!



This is what I'm thinking, that not all tubes will work in a driver triplet configuration.  Maybe that accounts for some people being happy with it and others not.  And maybe if there is a really outstanding SN7 (or equivalent) driver in that slot, having tubes in the C3g slot will do nothing.  Chances are it may make things worse.  But if you have a lesser SN7 driver, maybe having partners in the C3g slots will fill in some of its gaps.  Just another good example of YMMV.


----------



## UntilThen

Ramenik said:


> It certainly is a beautiful amp. My limited but wonderful experience with this amp might just push me to use 12au7 and el34



About 3 months ago, I had the opportunity again to buy a nearly new PL with 2 sets of tubes for AUD $4500 but I was drowning in amps. The 2 Sansui are on the floor now.

The 2 sets of 8 tubes are EL34 and KT150 !!!


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Steel.  My entire 6SN7 collection is going on sale.  If there is something specific someone is looking for, let me know.  Otherwise they will be sacrificed to the Lyr 3 thread.



Watchu got


----------



## attmci (Oct 29, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I guess I will have to use ECC32 instead


You need to play some games and forget about the music. LOL

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monster-hunter-world.871581/


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 29, 2019)

attmci said:


> You need to play some games and forget about the music. LOL



It would be better for my wallet.



Phantaminum said:


> Watchu got



Off the top of my head...

Sylvania 6SN7W tall bottle pair
Sylvania 6SN7W short bottle pair
Sylvania VT-231 pair
1953 RFT 6SN7 pair
1958 RFT 6SN7 pair
Tung-Sol BGRP
Fivre black plate
Fivre gray plate
Brimar gray plate
Hytron
National Union black glass
Tung-Sol mouse ears
Hitachi 6SN7GTB
Hitachi 12SN7GT triplet
NEC 6SN7GT
NEC 6SN7GTB pair

There are more I can't remember.  The 6SN7W metal base, Melz, RCA, and Ken-Rad are in sales limbo at the moment, so not sure if they are available.

Edit: nevermind, those are gone! Removed.


----------



## attmci (Oct 29, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> It would be better for my wallet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


FYI

I only have these on your list:

Sylvania 6SN7W metal
Sylvania 6SN7W short bottle
Sylvania VT-231
Tung-Sol BGRP
Fivre black plate
Fivre gray plate
National Union black glass
Tung-Sol mouse ears

Hope I don't have these: Sylvania VT-231  Tung-Sol mouse ears


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Funny you should link that game @attmci I am a pro at it


----------



## JazzVinyl

Look, I am getting the "Blue Glow":




Bought a little 6SL7 / 6V6 Push-Pull speaker amp...with 335v to the plates the 6V6's do the "Blue Glow"


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> OK...they light up. time to listen to a few albums.


Joe - how do the GEC KT66 compare to the EL3N tubes?
I know how the price compares.......


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 30, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Joe - how do the GEC KT66 compare to the EL3N tubes?
> I know how the price compares.......



I am listening again this morning and heard 5 albums last night.

The GEC KT66 reveals more of the music than the Mullard EL34 xf2's do.
The sound is cleaner, from top to bottom of spectrum...very detailed 3d sound.
Richer vocals.
Seems to be very detailed, but not overdone as most detailed tubes I have heard, have what a call a sharpe edge to the notes...they sound great but after a long session you have had enough and what something else.
I will call these notes much more rounded than most.

EL34 has more grit, if you will...raw....gutsy....punchy.....fun
Think Rolling Stones

Both are absolutely some great sounding tubes.
Probably will like some artist better with EL34....some with KT66

I think the KT66 runs hotter in my EL3N amp than the EL34 does......i will keep an eye on this.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

While LG is selling off his 6sn7 collection, my Sylvania 6SN7W just arrived. 

 

Decided to pair it with the WE422A and GEC 6AS7G, very nice through the Verite. 

 

On another note, i recently realised as I was swapping tubes that i was running in, that my two WE422A have slightly different angles on the double O getters. The older tube has the getters angled downwards, while the later tube's getters angle upwards. Weird. lol

 
The bold yellow script is the older tube


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I am listening again this morning and heard 5 albums last night.
> 
> The GEC KT66 reveals more of the music than the Mullard EL34 xf2's do.
> The sound is cleaner, from top to bottom of spectrum...very detailed 3d sound.
> ...



Maybe the 6V6 - similar to EL34 but "softer edges" should garner an audition?


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> I am listening again this morning and heard 5 albums last night.
> 
> The GEC KT66 reveals more of the music than the Mullard EL34 xf2's do.
> The sound is cleaner, from top to bottom of spectrum...very detailed 3d sound.
> ...



How do the "stock" EL3N fits in?  I know they're already great in this GEL3N amp. Are they like a "mini KT66"? or do they have the EL34 grit?
Trying to figure out which I would like to test in the future (will definitely start out with the stock EL3N once my amp arrives!)


----------



## JazzVinyl

@mordy 

You have had your six pack of 6BX7's in for awhile...how do they compare to your favorite quad of 6080's?

.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 30, 2019)

Put the Goldpoint in.  Pretty simple, had to unfasten a filter cap clamp from the chassis to get it in place, widened the mounting hole to 10mm.  Also used some metal polish on the front plate while I was at it.  Shiny!

Listening to Visseaux 6J5G and Nippon Electric 6520.  Now have a lot more play in the volume knob, with low gain power tubes, listening volume is 2-3 o'clock, should really help with higher gain tubes like 6BX7.  Really happy with it!  The clicky-ness is very satisfying.

Next are the Jupiter caps, but I have to do some planning and source parts, so probably won't get it done until next week.

Listening to some Björk, pronounced BUH-JORK in her native Iceland  (just kidding).


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Put the Goldpoint in.  Pretty simple, had to unfasten a filter cap clamp from the chassis to get it in place, widened the mounting hole to 10mm.  Also used some metal polish on the front plate while I was at it.  Shiny!
> 
> Listening to Visseaux 6J5G and Nippon Electric 6520.  Now have a lot more play in the volume knob, with low gain power tubes, listening volume is 2-3 o'clock, should really help with higher gain tubes like 6BX7.  Really happy with it!  The clicky-ness is very satisfying.
> 
> ...



LG - when are you going to start building and selling amps?


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> @mordy
> 
> You have had your six pack of 6BX7's in for awhile...how do they compare to your favorite quad of 6080's?
> 
> .


Both are very good. The six pack 6BX7 has been described as incisive - there is a hard hitting edge to the sound. Need more time to figure out what I prefer - 6-pack or 4x6080.
With the dual Tung Sol 6C5GT there is some background noise in one channel. At first I thought that it came from one of the TS tubes, but when I switched them around it still stayed in the same channel - perhaps it comes from one of the BX tubes or is a result of interaction with the 6C5. Working on it - it is not objectionable when playing music.
This morning I rolled a TS 6SN7 BGRP with the 6x6BX7. It appears to me that using the dual TS 6C5GT triodes the sound is airier with more slam.
Now I put in a Sylvania black base 6SN7W with the 6-pack. Very nice, but when I added the pair of TFK EL11 T I got better slam, punch and and definition, and improved mid range. This is a preliminary impression but it sounds very good. 
Actually excellent.....
Endless choices......


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Put the Goldpoint in.  Pretty simple, had to unfasten a filter cap clamp from the chassis to get it in place, widened the mounting hole to 10mm.  Also used some metal polish on the front plate while I was at it.  Shiny!
> 
> Listening to Visseaux 6J5G and Nippon Electric 6520.  Now have a lot more play in the volume knob, with low gain power tubes, listening volume is 2-3 o'clock, should really help with higher gain tubes like 6BX7.  Really happy with it!  The clicky-ness is very satisfying.
> 
> ...


Iceland belonged to Denmark for a long time, and the second language there is Danish. Which is close to Swedish. Björk in Swedish means birch (tree).


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Put the Goldpoint in.  Pretty simple, had to unfasten a filter cap clamp from the chassis to get it in place, widened the mounting hole to 10mm.  Also used some metal polish on the front plate while I was at it.  Shiny!
> 
> Listening to Visseaux 6J5G and Nippon Electric 6520.  Now have a lot more play in the volume knob, with low gain power tubes, listening volume is 2-3 o'clock, should really help with higher gain tubes like 6BX7.  Really happy with it!  The clicky-ness is very satisfying.
> 
> ...



Excellent Job once again, LG!!

And if you dig Björk...

You must try this tribute to her:

 

Info:  

https://karllatham.com/constellations-released-in-germanyswitzerland-and-austria/

Cheers!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> Are you noticing any difference in sound quality in dedicated sockets vs adapters for the 6C5/6J5? I'm guessing not, but does look neater.



Wow @leftside I am actually noticing an obvious sound improvement with these dedicated sockets, I did not expect that (take that confirmation bias).  Better bass definition, wider staging.  Now the 6J5 sockets are using a beefier cathode bypass capacitor than the 6SN7 socket (500uF vs 250uF), left over from the C3g, which Glenn did tell me did not need to be replaced and may give more low end extension.  Could also be related to the simple use of an adapter, or the tubes being grounded in the dedicated sockets, cannot know for sure.



Zachik said:


> LG - when are you going to start building and selling amps?



Not sure about selling, but building is definitely on my to do list!  But I have much more to learn, switching components and rewiring is one thing, laying out and building an amp from a schematic is another, even more difficult is actually designing a good sounding circuit, far far beyond my knowledge, but I would like to learn


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
Hopefully I found the noisy tube now. Using my balance control I knew the noise came from the R channel. Three choices - I tapped on each tube (with the fan on they are not hot enough to burn yourself) and one of the GE's was more noisy when tapped. Replaced it with a similar Westinghouse (GE) and the noise level is significantly lower - can only hear it when the volume is at unlistenable levels w/o music.
Not sure if my method of tapping tubes is recommended......


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Wow @leftside I am actually noticing an obvious sound improvement with these dedicated sockets, I did not expect that (take that confirmation bias).  Better bass definition, wider staging.  Now the 6J5 sockets are using a beefier cathode bypass capacitor than the 6SN7 socket (500uF vs 250uF), left over from the C3g, which Glenn did tell me did not need to be replaced and may give more low end extension.  Could also be related to the simple use of an adapter, or the tubes being grounded in the dedicated sockets, cannot know for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure about selling, but building is definitely on my to do list!  But I have much more to learn, switching components and rewiring is one thing, laying out and building an amp from a schematic is another, even more difficult is actually designing a good sounding circuit, far far beyond my knowledge, but I would like to learn


Hi LG,
Found out that my 6J5 dual socket to 6SN7 isn't grounded. Is there a way for me to ground it?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> Found out that my 6J5 dual socket to 6SN7 isn't grounded. Is there a way for me to ground it?



Hey mordy - if you have the Chinese adapter and it looks like this on the bottom with the exposed solder...



You could probably make a jumper with 1-2cm piece of solid core wire and solder pins 1 and 8 together from the bottom.  That will tie the shield (pin 1) to the cathode (pin 8), which is grounded through the cathode resistor bypass capacitor.  I would ask @2359glenn to confirm, but I am pretty confident that is your fix!

Check out this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1889#post-15110434


----------



## mordy (Oct 30, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey mordy - if you have the Chinese adapter and it looks like this on the bottom with the exposed solder...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the answer.
In my old days on the Little Dot MKIII thread, we tried numerous tubes that required all kinds of connections. The method of connecting pins was to take a very thin wire and insert it into the appropriate holes in the socket and then push in the tube to hold the connecting wire in place. Solderless and easily changeable or reversible. Would this work with this adapter?
I assume that each socket has to be wired separately?
It also seems to me that the solder isn't exposed on the bottom - it is covered by a plastic shield.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Thanks for the answer.
> In my old days on the Little Dot MKIII thread, we tried numerous tubes that required all kinds of connections. The method of connecting pins was to take a very thin wire and insert it into the appropriate holes in the socket and then push in the tube to hold the connecting wire in place. Solderless and easily changeable or reversible. Would this work with this adapter?
> I assume that each socket has to be wired separately?
> It also seems to me that the solder isn't exposed on the bottom - it is covered by a plastic shield.



Yes, that would accomplish the same thing if done between pins 1 and 8.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Wow @leftside I am actually noticing an obvious sound improvement with these dedicated sockets, I did not expect that (take that confirmation bias).  Better bass definition, wider staging.  Now the 6J5 sockets are using a beefier cathode bypass capacitor than the 6SN7 socket (500uF vs 250uF), left over from the C3g, which Glenn did tell me did not need to be replaced and may give more low end extension.  Could also be related to the simple use of an adapter, or the tubes being grounded in the dedicated sockets, cannot know for sure.


Thanks for the update.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Thanks for the answer.
> In my old days on the Little Dot MKIII thread, we tried numerous tubes that required all kinds of connections. The method of connecting pins was to take a very thin wire and insert it into the appropriate holes in the socket and then push in the tube to hold the connecting wire in place. Solderless and easily changeable or reversible. Would this work with this adapter?
> I assume that each socket has to be wired separately?
> It also seems to me that the solder isn't exposed on the bottom - it is covered by a plastic shield.



And you could certainly do that with Pin 1 - run the wire to any screw on the case.

.


----------



## dminches

L0rdGwyn said:


> Put the Goldpoint in.  Pretty simple, had to unfasten a filter cap clamp from the chassis to get it in place, widened the mounting hole to 10mm.



How are you able to widen the holes without getting metal shavings and dust inside the amp?


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Maybe the 6V6 - similar to EL34 but "softer edges" should garner an audition?



I may eventually get around to trying a 6V6 but it is not on my priority list at the moment.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

dminches said:


> How are you able to widen the holes without getting metal shavings and dust inside the amp?



Oh, there are metal shavings!  I have used a step drill bit for widening the chassis holes.  When I did the sockets, I cling-wrapped the transformer and chokes on top of the amp to make sure no shavings got in.  For the interior, I blew it out with compressed air and vacuumed with a shop vac brush attachment several when finished.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 30, 2019)

Zachik said:


> How do the "stock" EL3N fits in?  I know they're already great in this GEL3N amp. Are they like a "mini KT66"? or do they have the EL34 grit?
> Trying to figure out which I would like to test in the future (will definitely start out with the stock EL3N once my amp arrives!)



The EL3N have their own signature, which is warm, easy to listen too and has killer bass.
The EL3N are not like a mini KT66....that tube would be the GEC KT63......The GEC KT66 is this but on steroids   
The EL3N also does not have the grit of the EL34....the EL3N is it's own thing and I love everything about it....some may need a brighter rectifier to enjoy it with some music, just like a warmer rectifier may be needed for some with the KT66

These are three different sound signatures....then of course, ad in the rectifier.
As @gibosi has already pointed out....with the adapters the EL3N amp gives a big enough rabbiit hole to go down.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I may eventually get around to trying a 6V6 but it is not on my priority list at the moment.



I have a bunch you could try it with...there is also a Loctal 7C5 (an adapter is avail) that also works...I have a bunch of these too (but no adapters).

Most Tube Amp schematics do say the cathode resistor should be changed between EL34 and 6V6...EL34 best @ 1K, 6V6 best @ 250 ohms

I figure it is worth a go!


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, that would accomplish the same thing if done between pins 1 and 8.


Hi Glenn,
Could you tell me if this will work? Also, is this only for the 65C family of tubes or also 6J5?


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> I have a bunch you could try it with...there is also a Loctal 7C5 (an adapter is avail) that also works...I have a bunch of these too (but no adapters).
> 
> Most Tube Amp schematics do say the cathode resistor should be changed between EL34 and 6V6...EL34 best @ 1K, 6V6 best @ 250 ohms
> 
> I figure it is worth a go



When Glenn makes the amp it will have a switch to change between tubes as he will have different cathode resistors for a few different tubes.
After hearing these GEC KT66 tubes...makes me wonder what KT77 sounds like.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> Could you tell me if this will work? Also, is this only for the 65C family of tubes or also 6J5?



Mordy...look at the photo of the bottom of the adapter...

Looks like you missed pins 1 and 8 to me...they straddle the guide pin....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Also, is this only for the 65C family of tubes or also 6J5?



Pin 1 on the 6J5 will either be tied to the metal external shield or the metal base of some tubes (this is why there are so many metal base 6J5).

Pin 1 on the 6C5 will be tied to the internal shield, the mesh-looking material inside.  There are 6C5 that have an external shield too.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Mordy...look at the photo of the bottom of the adapter...
> 
> Looks like you missed pins 1 and 8 to me...they straddle the guide pin....


Thanks - the picture was for illustration only. The tiny wire fell out when I was taking the picture and I put it back at random....
Still waiting for OK from Glenn - don't want to take any chances with my precious amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Thanks - the picture was for illustration only. The tiny wire fell out when I was taking the picture and I put it back at random....
> Still waiting for OK from Glenn - don't want to take any chances with my precious amp.



Gotcha...

Trying it here...Pin 1 connected to "shell" - may be more effective for the metal 6/12J5 tubes?  I have seen very few 12J5's in metal, seem to have been more of a 6J5 thing.


----------



## mordy

OK - took the plunge and used the little wires I had saved from a couple of years ago. They are completely hidden under the tube base with the octal sockets.
Well worth it - the TS 6C5GT tubes are much more quiet.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> OK - took the plunge and used the little wires I had saved from a couple of years ago. They are completely hidden under the tube base with the octal sockets.
> Well worth it - the TS 6C5GT tubes are much more quiet.



Yes, that Mesh Shield in the 6C5 tubes, appreciates the connection to ground.   My 12J5's are not noisy, so there was no benefit.  They are however, pretty microphonic!


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> The EL3N have their own signature, which is warm, easy to listen too and has killer bass.
> The EL3N are not like a mini KT66....that tube would be the GEC KT63......The GEC KT66 is this but on steroids
> The EL3N also does not have the grit of the EL34....the EL3N is it's own thing and I love everything about it....some may need a brighter rectifier to enjoy it with some music, just like a warmer rectifier may be needed for some with the KT66
> 
> ...


Thanks Joe!!!  Great info


----------



## mordy (Oct 30, 2019)

Hi JV,
May I recommend bariatric surgery? Did a double abdominal band today that helped significantly to reduce microphonics in a pair of TFK EL11 T tubes.:




The procedure involves taking a piece of self gluing high temp silicone tape and stretch it tight so that the ends overlap. Push down one end over the other, and it is done. The tape can be removed by peeling it off or cutting it, and there is no residue. It only sticks tightly together when you join two pieces together.
Do you remember the rusty K-R 6C5 metal tube?



Since I don't have your skills in refinishing and painting (and no lime green paint) I just put on some make-up. Had a piece of silicone tape peeled off from a tube where it did not help (popping noises - requires heat treatment of pins) and a small blue rubber band. Put this no cost application on the rusty tube:




Not perfect, but better looking...Could not get a label to stick to the silicone; had to use scotch tape.
Necessity is the mother of invention, so where do unnecessary inventions come from?


----------



## Velozity

@2359glenn, thank you for contributing your time and knowledge and offering to create masterpiece amplifiers at a significant value for Head-Fi'ers to enjoy.  I am thoroughly satisfied with my wooden GOTL and it has exceeding my expectations in build and sound quality.  I honestly don't know how you have time to build these and keep a day job and still have time for yourself, but thank you for your sacrifices.  Much respect sir, much respect.  


To everyone else, I here are some pictures of the amplifier Glenn and I have had the pleasure of listening to.  It sounds freaking fantastic.  I soooo can not wait to get the Verite Closed plugged into this baby.  Sorry for so many pics, but I wanted to show the unboxing.  It took me 20 minutes to remove all the darn pool noodles!  And I giggled like a child the whole time  .  Glenn's care in packaging is second to none.


Pics in next post...


----------



## Velozity (Oct 31, 2019)

So here she is, in all her timbered glory.  What shall we name her??


----------



## jmac1516

Velozity,

Looks amazing and I’m sure it sounds incredible!  Enjoy and please share your experience with different tubes you have.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Velozity said:


> So here she is, in all her timbered glory.  What shall we name her??



Woah... a wooden chassis Glenn amp looks fantastic!


----------



## rnros

Velozity said:


> @2359glenn, thank you for contributing your time and knowledge and offering to create masterpiece amplifiers at a significant value for Head-Fi'ers to enjoy.  I am thoroughly satisfied with my wooden GOTL and it has exceeding my expectations in build and sound quality.  I honestly don't know how you have time to build these and keep a day job and still have time for yourself, but thank you for your sacrifices.  Much respect sir, much respect.
> 
> 
> To everyone else, I here are some pictures of the amplifier Glenn and I have had the pleasure of listening to.  It sounds freaking fantastic.  I soooo can not wait to get the Verite Closed plugged into this baby.  Sorry for so many pics, but I wanted to show the unboxing.  It took me 20 minutes to remove all the darn pool noodles!  And I giggled like a child the whole time  .  Glenn's care in packaging is second to none.
> ...


 
That is a seriously beautiful amp. Congrats! 
Also great that it sounds fantastic. As expected...  
Thanks for sharing the nice pics.


----------



## felix3650

That wooden GOTL is really beautiful indeed! I'm imagining how a GEL3N would look if it had a wooden base


----------



## whirlwind

Velozity said:


> So here she is, in all her timbered glory.  What shall we name her??




What a beautiful little amp.   You have some wonderful tubes in there also.
Congrats, you will get years of enjoyment.
I love the simple design.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Gotcha...
> 
> Trying it here...Pin 1 connected to "shell" - may be more effective for the metal 6/12J5 tubes?  I have seen very few 12J5's in metal, seem to have been more of a 6J5 thing.




I have not come across any metal 12J5 tubes either.


----------



## 2359glenn

Velozity said:


> So here she is, in all her timbered glory.  What shall we name her??



Glad you are liking it.
It is a cute little amp.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Velozity said:


> So here she is, in all her timbered glory.  What shall we name her??



Lovely work @2359glenn , congrats on your new amp @Velozity !


----------



## JazzVinyl

Velozity said:


> So here she is, in all her timbered glory.  What shall we name her??



Wow, it is really beautiful!!  Congrats!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> May I recommend bariatric surgery? Did a double abdominal band today that helped significantly to reduce microphonics in a pair of TFK EL11 T tubes.:
> 
> The procedure involves taking a piece of self gluing high temp silicone tape and stretch it tight so that the ends overlap. Push down one end over the other, and it is done. The tape can be removed by peeling it off or cutting it, and there is no residue. It only sticks tightly together when you join two pieces together.
> ...



Thanks, Mordy...

Will have to give the Silicon Tape a go.

And your cosmetically improved KR 6J5 looks much better!  Well Done!


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Thanks - the picture was for illustration only. The tiny wire fell out when I was taking the picture and I put it back at random....
> Still waiting for OK from Glenn - don't want to take any chances with my precious amp.



It is fine to do this a good thing to lower the noise.
You can also do this with your metal 6N7 jump pins 1 & 8 to ground the outer shell.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> I won these tubes at on international auction last night, $95 for a quad of 6C5G, I was the only bidder.  May not seem like that great of a deal, seller does not know what brand they are as they are unlabeled...but I do
> 
> The acid etching and bases gave it away, they are Fivre, a most excellent and rare tube!  The brown base with mesh shield is identical to my pair, so I will have a spare.  The brown base with solid shield are a new construction to me that I have not seen.  The black base are very early production, I will have to keep my eyes peeled for a match.
> 
> I haven't bought any tubes for a while, but I had to make an exception here.



@L0rdGwyn - Here is the question...do the 6C5G's sound better than 6/12J5's?  
I mean they look really cool with the mesh shield...but are they a sonic bonus?


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> It is fine to do this a good thing to lower the noise.
> You can also do this with your metal 6N7 jump pins 1 & 8 to ground the outer shell.



Good to know on the 6N7's as I have said the higher mu with these as drivers, have caused noise problems when using the higher mu power tubes!

Will be trying this, soon.

Appreciate @2359glenn !!


----------



## Velozity

Thanks everyone for the kudos on my amp.  Right off the bat one of the things that strikes me is just how quiet the noise floor is on her.  With good tubes the background is as black as midnight.  I love it!  Currently I'm enjoying this "chrome dome" roll:  Raytheon 3DG4, Tung-Sol 7236, NEC / Westinghouse 6SN7GTB.  With excellent speed, slam and detail, it's a great combo to listen to the new Lindsey Stirling album.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> @L0rdGwyn - Here is the question...do the 6C5G's sound better than 6/12J5's?
> I mean they look really cool with the mesh shield...but are they a sonic bonus?


And I would like to add another question: is there a difference between ST, regular glass and metal tubes?
So far I have only been able to ascertain that these old tubes have the house sound of KR and Sylvania and NU.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> @L0rdGwyn - Here is the question...do the 6C5G's sound better than 6/12J5's?
> I mean they look really cool with the mesh shield...but are they a sonic bonus?





mordy said:


> And I would like to add another question: is there a difference between ST, regular glass and metal tubes?
> So far I have only been able to ascertain that these old tubes have the house sound of KR and Sylvania and NU.



Oh my, twenty questions!

What I will say is...I will tell you next week.  Right now, I do not have have equivalent 6J5 and 6C5, and I do not have both straight and shouldered tubes of the same make.

What I will have by the end of next week:

Brimar/STC 6J5G and 6C5G
Zenith (Sylvania) 6J5G and Sylvania VT-94D, straight versus shouldered with identical plate construction

The above will give an apples-to-apples comparison, so I will let you know!  Also have some Mullard 6C5G on the way  very exciting.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Oh my, twenty questions!
> 
> What I will say is...I will tell you next week.  Right now, I do not have have equivalent 6J5 and 6C5, and I do not have both straight and shouldered tubes of the same make.
> 
> ...


How about some garden variety $2 tubes  6C5 (KR, TS, GE, NU etc ?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> How about some garden variety $2 tubes  6C5 (KR, TS, GE, NU etc ?



I am hoping to get more of these makes, I will probably grab a pair of the Tung-Sol 12J5GT, which have identical plates to my Tung-Sol 6J5G (shouldered), so that should be a good comparison of straight and shouldered.  I will keep you posted.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 31, 2019)

Wondering what's the difference between these power tubes? Then read this.

*EL34, 6CA7, KT77 DIFFERENCE?*

https://www.tubesforamps.com/el34-6ca7-kt77-differences


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I am ordering parts for my cap changeout, I'll also have to replace the 22K 5W resistors.

I have been reading about various resistors in terms of noise, inductance, which sound the best for two hours, although I know in my heart it doesn't actually matter, what is wrong with me...

My big hang up right now is metal oxide versus metal film versus carbon film.  The metal oxide are technically superior than the carbon film, but people seem to think the carbons have a "sound" that matches tubes well.  Metal film are lower noise but do not come in 5W makes it seems, although 2W is probably fine if I am not using a triple driver setup, in that case I would just grab some 2W metal film Vishays.  Wirewound are the lowest noise overall but apparently are not favored because they are prone to parasitic inductance?

Was thinking of grabbing these Kiwame carbon film resistors, characterized by their "extensive neutrality" LOL this is insane, help me Glenn.

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/kiwame.html


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am ordering parts for my cap changeout, I'll also have to replace the 22K 5W resistors.
> 
> I have been reading about various resistors in terms of noise, inductance, which sound the best for two hours, although I know in my heart it doesn't actually matter, what is wrong with me...
> 
> ...


Not sure if this helps, but I went with 2W metal film in my custom amp. But, I can only run one set of drivers at once. I.e. 1 6SN7, 6SL7, 12SL7, 12SN7, etc, or 2 C3g, or 2 6J5. I spent the most amount of money on the transformers and caps in the power supply section, and caps and more caps in the amplifier section.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Oct 31, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am ordering parts for my cap changeout, I'll also have to replace the 22K 5W resistors.
> 
> I have been reading about various resistors in terms of noise, inductance, which sound the best for two hours, although I know in my heart it doesn't actually matter, what is wrong with me...
> 
> ...



Boutique "audiophile" parts are carefully designed,  to clean out your pockets.

Why change the currently installed 2 watt 22k resistors if your not messing with driver triplet?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> Not sure if this helps, but I went with 2W metal film in my custom amp. But, I can only run one set of drivers at once. I.e. 1 6SN7, 6SL7, 12SL7, 12SN7, etc, or 2 C3g, or 2 6J5. I spent the most amount of money on the transformers and caps in the power supply section, and caps and more caps in the amplifier section.



Thanks, for technical reasons, metal film seem to be the best choice.  Not common at 22K 5W though, if 2W will suffice then I may go this direction.  Read a very old but interesting post though from Dsavitsk of ECP Audio.  He built two identical circuits, one using metal film resistors, the other using the Kiwame carbon film resistors I mentioned, and felt there were very audible subjective differences, made me wonder...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/carbon-film-vs-metal-film-revisited.121104/

Very interested to see your amp 



JazzVinyl said:


> Boutique "audiophile" parts are carefully designed,  to clean out your pockets.
> 
> Why change the currently installed 2 watt 22k resistors if your not messing with driver triplet?



The 22K resistors are being changed for layout reasons, I will need longer leads to get them where they need to go, and I'd rather start fresh anyhow.  So if they are being replaced, I do have to make a choice, even if it is of very little consequence, a choice must be made!  And with these boutique resistors, we are talking single digits in terms of cost, so I'm not too concerned about feeding the snake oil machine.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks, for technical reasons, metal film seem to be the best choice.  Not common at 22K 5W though, if 2W will suffice then I may go this direction.  Read a very old but interesting post though from Dsavitsk of ECP Audio.  He built two identical circuits, one using metal film resistors, the other using the Kiwame carbon film resistors I mentioned, and felt there were very audible subjective differences, made me wonder...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/carbon-film-vs-metal-film-revisited.121104/
> 
> ...



Be careful buying boutique parts.
I was using Amtrans AMRG 22K 2W carbon film made in Japan suppose to be one of the best.  They started failing so now use more conventional brands like Vishay .
Also used Duelund coupling capacitors at $200 each and one started leaking oil.  At that price there should be no problems like that.
So I will no longer use them even if someone asks for them.  So far no problems with Jupiter.  Electrolytic are Sprague Atom no problems using them for over 40 years.
So I use brands that are used by the thousands by large company's these parts have to have quality control.  Don't know the SQ but I need reliability.
What scares me is I have amps with AMRG resistors all over the world.


----------



## A2029

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks, for technical reasons, metal film seem to be the best choice.  Not common at 22K 5W though, if 2W will suffice then I may go this direction.



A 3W metal film Vishay 22K:
https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMsPqMdJzcrNwiaZa5aeFZjZjatv41UxHnY=

Or, even better would be to put two of these 11K in series to get 4W potential dissipation and lower overall temperature resistance change:
https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMsPqMdJzcrNwkolFvBv8WDHp2Ikz9tNLzE=


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Be careful buying boutique parts.
> I was using Amtrans AMRG 22K 2W carbon film made in Japan suppose to be one of the best.  They started failing so now use more conventional brands like Vishay .
> Also used Duelund coupling capacitors at $200 each and one started leaking oil.  At that price there should be no problems like that.
> So I will no longer use them even if someone asks for them.  So far no problems with Jupiter.  Electrolytic are Sprague Atom no problems using them for over 40 years.
> ...



Duly noted.  I saw those AMRG resistors and remembered you had issues with them.  I am inclined to go with Vishay, only started looking at boutique brands since there aren't a lot of 22K 5W options on Mouser et al.  Then I started peering into the subjective deep end and got lost.



A2029 said:


> A 3W metal film Vishay 22K:
> https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/Vishay-Dale/CPF322K000FKB14?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsPqMdJzcrNwiaZa5aeFZjZjatv41UxHnY=
> 
> Or, even better would be to put two of these 11K in series to get 4W potential dissipation and lower overall temperature resistance change:
> https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/Vishay-Dale/CPF211K000FKE14?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsPqMdJzcrNwkolFvBv8WDHp2Ikz9tNLzE=



Thanks, those are the exact ones I have in my shopping cart, probably the best option.  Will 2 or 3W be sufficient @2359glenn ?  I won't be using three drivers.


----------



## 2359glenn

2 or 3 watt are fine and better yet if you can get 1% for better channel balance.
Most of the parts I use are Vishay like Sprague capacitors I tryed and switched the output capacitors and the amp sounded horrible.
Couldn't be leave how switching the brand of a part.could change the sound so much.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 31, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> 2 or 3 watt are fine and better yet if you can get 1% for better channel balance.
> Most of the parts I use are Vishay like Sprague capacitors I tryed and switched the output capacitors and the amp sounded horrible.
> Couldn't be leave how switching the brand of a part.could change the sound so much.



Done, Vishay it is.  I have used them for everything else, no problems whatsoever.

I am going to try those Japanese Kiwame carbon film resistors too, just for fun to see if they change the sound, will only cost a few dollars to try them out.

Thanks!


----------



## A2029

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am going to try those Japanese Kiwame carbon film resistors too, just for fun to see if they change the sound, will only cost a few dollars to try them out.
> 
> Thanks!



Psst, Kiwame resistors are just rebranded KOA Speer (KOA are cheaper). A bunch of other audiophile branded companies do this with resistors and capacitors.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 31, 2019)

A2029 said:


> Psst, Kiwame resistors are just rebranded KOA Speer (KOA are cheaper). A bunch of other audiophile branded companies do this with resistors and capacitors.



Yes, I'm aware, but the Kiwame are more available from what I have seen in a few hours poking around.  Mouser doesn't carry KOA Speer 22K 5W.  More to see if there is anything to this carbon film versus metal film, I can get five of them for $4 on eBay  just gives me something to do, I am a busy body.

Edit: Speaking of, had a laugh when I saw the "Mundorf M-resist 5W MOX", same metal oxide resistors you see everywhere!

Okay, I am done hijacking the thread to talk about resistors, sorry everyone


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Very interested to see your amp


It's coming


----------



## mordy

Having fun rolling all manner of 6C/J5 bargain tubes. 
Trying to read up on 6C5 and 6J5 tubes, but there isn't that much information available.
One source said that the early 6C5 tubes are triode strapped pentodes - anybody knows anything about this?

ATM trying a 1940 pair of National Unions. One is all metal and the other one glass tubular. With pins 1&8 strapped they are very quiet. They measured 88% and NOS. Sound very good overall with good bass.
The metal one seems to be a drop punchier, but I can't hear too much difference between them. 
The metal tube has the date code DR - just what the doctor ordered!
From the Free Dictionary:
_If you say that something is just what the doctor ordered, you mean that it is extremely enjoyable or useful and helps to make you feel better. _
And may I add in another feel good factor: these tubes are cheap - won't make a hole in your wallet; not even a dent.....


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 1, 2019)

These EL37 Tubes were Mullards answer to the KT66 tubes.
Just like the KT66 tubes...these tubes are very detailed, rich tone and balanced very well.
Maybe just a tad more laid back than the GEC sound.
Killer guitar tones here...sublime.  "blues tubes"

No reissues of these tubes, but absolutely worth having, although a bit pricey and these are not the most sought after of the EL37 tubes.
I have heard this tube can put out some serious power in a push/pull design.






Listening to this Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac album.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> These EL37 Tubes were Mullards answer to the KT66 tubes.
> Just like the KT66 tubes...these tubes are very detailed, rich tone and balanced very well.
> Maybe just a tad more laid back than the GEC sound.
> Killer guitar tones here...sublime.  "blues tubes"
> ...



Very nice, Joe.  I have been keeping my eyes peeled for those EL37s, but have some higher priority tubes in mind.  They are not cheap!  Seems you will be all set for power tubes when your new amp is built


----------



## L0rdGwyn

One 6SN7 has avoided my sales purge...Fivre 6SN7GT black plate.  The black plate version of this tube is very uncommon and I knew it was going to be hard to let go.  I was testing it for potential sale and was seduced by its sound, really unique among the 6SN7s I think, slightly warm with an absolutely rich, crisp, and textured midrange, non-fatiguing treble, quite similar to the Fivre 6N7G with round black plates, but a little more relaxed, soundstage is a little smaller, but without the noise of the 6N7G, this tube is dead quiet.  I may have never found one of these again, it stays!!!  I know it has been relegated to being a tester headphone for some, but the HD650 and the Fivre black plate are made for one another.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> One 6SN7 has avoided my sales purge...Fivre 6SN7GT black plate.  The black plate version of this tube is very uncommon and I knew it was going to be hard to let go.  I was testing it for potential sale and was seduced by its sound, really unique among the 6SN7s I think, slightly warm with an absolutely rich, crisp, and textured midrange, non-fatiguing treble, quite similar to the Fivre 6N7G with round black plates, but a little more relaxed, soundstage is a little smaller, but without the noise of the 6N7G, this tube is dead quiet.  I may have never found one of these again, it stays!!!  I know it has been relegated to being a tester headphone for some, but the HD650 and the Fivre black plate are made for one another.



And pretty with that Brown Base!  Your description of this tubes' sound is similar to what many say about 'Driver Triplet'.
Don't forget that 6N7 noise can be eliminated by externally heating your SN7 with direct current (DC) the 1-8 pin strap did not work on 6N7 for me.  
But the DC heat does.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Having fun rolling all manner of 6C/J5 bargain tubes.
> Trying to read up on 6C5 and 6J5 tubes, but there isn't that much information available.
> One source said that the early 6C5 tubes are triode strapped pentodes - anybody knows anything about this?



No extra grids in 6C5 (which would make it a pentode).  According to every datasheet I have seen, it is your basic triode.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Listening to this Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac album.



The great Peter Green!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> And pretty with that Brown Base!  Your description of this tubes' sound is similar to what many say about 'Driver Triplet'.
> Don't forget that 6N7 noise can be eliminated by externally heating your SN7 with direct current (DC) the 1-8 pin strap did not work on 6N7 for me.
> But the DC heat does.



Thanks!  I do wonder how much work it would be to filter the driver filament AC to DC...oh dear, something to think about


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks!  I do wonder how much work it would be to filter the driver filament AC to DC...oh dear, something to think about



Might be easier to Elevate the AC off ground, @2359glenn ?


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> No extra grids in 6C5 (which would make it a pentode).  According to every datasheet I have seen, it is your basic triode.


Thanks - that clears it up


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks!  I do wonder how much work it would be to filter the driver filament AC to DC...oh dear, something to think about



The 12.6 and 25.2 are already DC but not that well filtered.
To do this you would need a full wave bridge rectifier and a 10,000 uf filter capacitor 35 or 50 volt.
There should be room to mount the big capacitor on a clamp like the filter capacitor for the driver.


----------



## dminches

Power tube test question.  If one tube tests at 2000 and the other at 2850 do you think there would be a channel imbalance?  I know that testing is important for pre-amp tubes but it is as important for power tubes?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> The 12.6 and 25.2 are already DC but not that well filtered.
> To do this you would need a full wave bridge rectifier and a 10,000 uf filter capacitor 35 or 50 volt.
> There should be room to mount the big capacitor on a clamp like the filter capacitor for the driver.



Okay, so I could take the 6/12/25V switch outputs directly into the rectifier.  There is room for the cap next to the transformer, right by the switch, perfect spot actually.  I could mount the terminals for the rectifier on the back of the amp next to the switch.

I am gonna finish the cap change then see how I feel about this, not sure how much of a difference it will make, what do you think Glenn?  I know the drivers on your amp are DC filtered.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Ho-Lee jumping yellow handled, green zircon encrusted swizzle sticks!

Just got in a pair of 1944 Sylvania 12J5 - round black plates.

And wow!!



Superb sonics!

Thank you @mordy for pointing out these have the round plates (all my other 12J5 have flat plates).


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Okay, so I could take the 6/12/25V switch outputs directly into the rectifier.  There is room for the cap next to the transformer, right by the switch, perfect spot actually.  I could mount the terminals for the rectifier on the back of the amp next to the switch.
> 
> I am gonna finish the cap change then see how I feel about this, not sure how much of a difference it will make, what do you think Glenn?  I know the drivers on your amp are DC filtered.



One thing to remember is don't ground the heaters.  They are floating at +125 volts this cuts down on heater to cathode emission lowering hum from the heater.
The two 47K 5 watt resistors split the power supply voltage and act as a bleeder to discharge the big filter capacitors when the amp is shut off.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Ho-Lee jumping yellow handled, green zircon encrusted swizzle sticks!
> 
> Just got in a pair of 1944 Sylvania 12J5 - round black plates.
> 
> ...



The beauty of the 6/12J5 and L63 is they can be gotten in round plate or British oval plate.  I think round and oval plate tubes always sound best.
And these can be found in almost all brands.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> One thing to remember is don't ground the heaters.  They are floating at +125 volts this cuts down on heater to cathode emission lowering hum from the heater.
> The two 47K 5 watt resistors split the power supply voltage and act as a bleeder to discharge the big filter capacitors when the amp is shut off.



Got it.  I had seen some schematics with the filter cap grounded, glad you cleared that up.  Thanks for your help.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Got it.  I had seen some schematics with the filter cap grounded, glad you cleared that up.  Thanks for your help.



The main filter caps are grounded in the high voltage power supply. Really all the filter caps are grounded in the high voltage part.
The filament supply is AC grounded through a 560uf capacitor on the side panel. Has to be through a capacitor to be able to float them at 125 volts.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> The beauty of the 6/12J5 and L63 is they can be gotten in round plate or British oval plate.  I think round and oval plate tubes always sound best.
> And these can be found in almost all brands.



With cooper rods to boot !


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> The main filter caps are grounded in the high voltage power supply. Really all the filter caps are grounded in the high voltage part.
> The filament supply is AC grounded through a 560uf capacitor on the side panel. Has to be through a capacitor to be able to float them at 125 volts.



Right, so the 560uF caps create an AC path to ground, but do not pass the 125V DC where the heaters are floated, which prevents heater emission into the cathode.  I think I got it...



JazzVinyl said:


> Ho-Lee jumping yellow handled, green zircon encrusted swizzle sticks!
> 
> Just got in a pair of 1944 Sylvania 12J5 - round black plates.
> 
> ...



Nice, JV!  I actually recommended those tubes to some people, not sure if they ever bought them, they are 1940s wartime just like my Sylvania VT-94D, same plate construction, they should sound the same, which is to say AWESOME.  And they are cheap


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Right, so the 560uF caps create an AC path to ground, but do not pass the 125V DC where the heaters are floated, which prevents heater emission into the cathode.  I think I got it...
> 
> 
> 
> Nice, JV!  I actually recommended those tubes to some people, not sure if they ever bought them, they are 1940s wartime just like my Sylvania VT-94D, same plate construction, they should sound the same, which is to say AWESOME.  And they are cheap




I just snagged another pair.
Can't go wrong with a NOS matched pair from 1946.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Ma...640029?hash=item2617e4fc5d:g:eEUAAOSwS3NclGRt


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> The beauty of the 6/12J5 and L63 is they can be gotten in round plate or British oval plate.  I think round and oval plate tubes always sound best.
> And these can be found in almost all brands.



Speaking of round plate and British oval plate...all of this came yesterday.


 

Have mostly been spending time with the Zenith and STC 6J5G, although quick impressions of the lead Ken-Rads are very good.  Those engraved base 1930s Zeniths (Sylvania) are really, really good tubes.  Unfortunately, the seller conveniently did not show pictures of "6J5G" crudely carved into the base, or the glob of paint.  Others are available, so I am returning them, but I highly recommend them.  Look for the engraved bases with black round plates and transparent top and bottom micas.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I just snagged another pair.
> Can't go wrong with a NOS matched pair from 1946.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Ma...640029?hash=item2617e4fc5d:g:eEUAAOSwS3NclGRt



I wonder if these sound as good as the GEC L63?  I might snag a pair too.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Speaking of round plate and British oval plate...all of this came yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> Have mostly been spending time with the Zenith and STC 6J5G, although quick impressions of the lead Ken-Rads are very good.  Those engraved base 1930s Zeniths (Sylvania) are really, really good tubes.  Unfortunately, the seller conveniently did not show pictures of "6J5G" crudely carved into the base, or the glob of paint.  Others are available, so I am returning them, but I highly recommend them.  Look for the engraved bases with black round plates and transparent top and bottom micas.




Nice haul.  I have noticed that Sylvania and Zenith branded both have black round plates.
Do the Ken Rad's have black round plates ?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I wonder if these sound as good as the GEC L63?  I might snag a pair too.



For the price I think well worth it.
NOS matched pair from 1946.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 2, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Nice haul.  I have noticed that Sylvania and Zenith branded both have black round plates.
> Do the Ken Rad's have black round plates ?



No they have the same ladder style plates as the Ken-Rad 6SN7GT.  The round plate Zeniths are all made by Sylvania, but there is a non-engraved base Zenith model with yellow lettering that is more common and cheaper, I think they will sound the same, the plates look identical.  Also have a heat fin on top that the engraved ones do not.

Also interesting, I thought the round plates of the earlier Zenith/Sylania 6J5G would be the same as my Sylvania VT-94D, but they're not, the 6J5G plates are like a miniature version and the tubes sound similar but not identical.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> No they have the same ladder style plates as the Ken-Rad 6SN7GT.  The round plate Zeniths are all made by Sylvania, but there is a non-engraved base Zenith model with yellow lettering that is more common and cheaper, I think they will sound the same, the plates look identical.  Also have a heat fin on top that the engraved ones do not.
> 
> Also interesting, I thought the round plates of the earlier Zenith/Sylania 6J5G would be the same as my Sylvania VT-94D, but they're not, the 6J5G plates are like a miniature version and the tubes sound similar but not identical.




Thanks...yeah noticed the heat fins on some.

Do the Ken Rad sound the same...or similar ?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Thanks...yeah noticed the heat fins on some.
> 
> Do the Ken Rad sound the same...or similar ?



I think they are technically similar, same level of detail retrieval. I think the Ken-Rads have a less aggressive sound than the Sylvanias, a little more laid-back, slightly more spacious and diffuse.  The Sylvanias tone sounds similar to me to the 6SN7W metal base, the notes have more of a leading attack, sound closer to the ear, not biting but gives it that sense of dynamics and excitement to the music.  Those are just my immediate impressions from swapping back and forth for a half hour or so.

Here they are side-by-side.


----------



## whirlwind

I meant do the Ken Rad 6J5GT sound similar to Ken Rad 6J5G

Sorry for the confusion


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> I meant do the Ken Rad 6J5GT sound similar to Ken Rad 6J5G
> 
> Sorry for the confusion



Oh my mistake  I don't have a shouldered Ken-Rad, so I can't say!  I actually don't think Ken-Rad made a shouldered 6J5, only 6P5 which do not have the ladder plates.  The only Ken-Rad 6J5 I have seen are the straight glass 6J5GT and the metal shell 6J5.


----------



## whirlwind

Nice to know...i have a pair of 6P5 in my sight.

Sorry to be so confusing.....call me "tube drunk"


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Nice to know...i have a pair of 6P5 in my sight.
> 
> Sorry to be so confusing.....call me "tube drunk"



Uh oh, I just bought a pair, I hope I didn't buy the ones you were looking at!  I'm sorry if I did 

I'd imagine tubes sellers like VaccumTubes.net and others probably have a bunch of American 6P5 tubes since not a lot of people are using them.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 2, 2019)

I am listening to the Live In Boston Fleetwood Mac 3 cd set from 1970....this box set is a nice remaster.

I have never heard it sound better than today...listening with LCD-3....GZ32...EL34...EL3N

There is a 24 minute version of Rattlesnake Shake and a 13 minute version of  The Green Manalishi
that has never sounded this good to my ears. Killer six string bass from Peter Green.

I love the new Fleetwood Mac...but they sure did not have the grit as the Peter Greens era.

If you like being in the front few rows to watch, hear, and feel electric guitar..
This will get you pretty close


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Uh oh, I just bought a pair, I hope I didn't buy the ones you were looking at!  I'm sorry if I did
> 
> I'd imagine tubes sellers like VaccumTubes.net and others probably have a bunch of American 6P5 tubes since not a lot of people are using them.




Ha ha no problem.....I will wait for your impressions.


----------



## mordy

What is the difference between 6C5 and 6J5 tubes? The C appeared in 1935 and the J in 1937.
In any case I have a pair (purchased separately in different lots) of the Sylvania 6C5GT. The tubes are from March and June 1951 and have copper rods and the heat fin on top - round plates.
Except for the copper rods the construction seems identical to a single Sylvania VT-94/6J5GT/G from February 1944 that I also have.
They sound very good and with the 1-8 wire jumper are extremely quiet. 



Another bonus is that they cost me less than $7 incl shipping and NYS sales tax.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> What is the difference between 6C5 and 6J5 tubes? The C appeared in 1935 and the J in 1937.
> In any case I have a pair (purchased separately in different lots) of the Sylvania 6C5GT. The tubes are from March and June 1951 and have copper rods and the heat fin on top - round plates.
> Except for the copper rods the construction seems identical to a single Sylvania VT-94/6J5GT/G from February 1944 that I also have.
> They sound very good and with the 1-8 wire jumper are extremely quiet.
> ...



Interesting, is it possible it is a mislabel and it is actually a 6J5GT, mordy?  All straight glass 6C5GT I have seen have the internal shielding, like the one below.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Got around to something I have been meaning to do since fixing up my tube tester.  I had spent a little time with the Sylvania flat plate 6BL7GT beforehand, but I was having issues with the tubes arcing, noise, now I know why....

Of the eleven or so of these tubes I have, five of them test poorly and have a large imbalance between sections or have shorts, so its no wonder I have having issues.  Now I have a nice set of six, passed on my tester, now passing on the GOTL.  These are very nice sounding power tubes and surprisingly quiet given their high gain of 14.  Going to spend some time with them over the next few days.  Their beefy heaters make a nice long-exposure photo too, here they are with the STC 6J5G.


----------



## mordy (Nov 2, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Interesting, is it possible it is a mislabel and it is actually a 6J5GT, mordy?  All straight glass 6C5GT I have seen have the internal shielding, like the one below.


Right on, LG!
The mislabeling is from me - one one box I wrote 6J5GT and on the other 6C5GT, but they are both the 6J5GT. Possibly both tubes are used, but the print on the tubes is very faint and hard to see. But that's the difference between spending $25 or more, or $7.....
Still, is there a difference how the 6C5 and 6J5 tubes sound within the same brand and type?
Re the 6BX/BL7 tubes: If my memory serves me right I think I remember that Glenn cautioned us only to buy NOS since many of them have seen long hard use in TV sets.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Right on, LG!
> The mislabeling is from me - one one box I wrote 6J5GT and on the other 6C5GT, but they are both the 6J5GT. Possibly both tubes are used, but the print on the tubes is very faint and hard to see. But that's the difference between spending $25 or more, or $7.....
> Still, is there a difference how the 6C5 and 6J5 tubes sound within the same brand and type?
> Re the 6BX/BL7 tubes: If my memory serves me right I think I remember that Glenn cautioned us only to buy NOS since many of them have seen long hard use in TV sets.



There you go, a matched pair 

And that is a good question on differences in sound between 6J5 and 6C5 within the same brand.  Right now I cannot say, but I will have both 6J5G and 6C5G from STC/Brimar within the next week.  My Fivre 6C5G have round plates, whereas the Fivre 6J5GT have ladder plates, so I would expect them to sound different but I don't have the 6J5GT in hand yet.

I remember Glenn saying the same about the 6BX7/6BL7, I bought up a bunch of these flat-plate Sylvanias both NOS and used hoping to get a full set, but I wasn't expecting five casualties!  But I have my sextet, so I am happy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I am listening to the Live In Boston Fleetwood Mac 3 cd set from 1970....this box set is a nice remaster.
> 
> I have never heard it sound better than today...listening with LCD-3....GZ32...EL34...EL3N
> 
> ...



Will have to stream these albums and see what it is all about.

Too bad what happened to Peter Green...such an amazing talent.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> I remember Glenn saying the same about the 6BX7/6BL7, I bought up a bunch of these flat-plate Sylvanias both NOS and used hoping to get a full set, but I wasn't expecting five casualties!  But I have my sextet, so I am happy.



NOS 6BX/BL7's are not very common.  I have 3x Flat Plate 6BL7's and with also like a good set of 6, although for my cans, 4x seems to provide plenty of power.  The Flat Plate 6BL7's do sound a bit better than the others that are so commonly found.

I think all of my BX/BL7's have been used, a very low number of them, for me, have been noisy/unusable.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Got around to something I have been meaning to do since fixing up my tube tester.  I had spent a little time with the Sylvania flat plate 6BL7GT beforehand, but I was having issues with the tubes arcing, noise, now I know why....
> 
> Of the eleven or so of these tubes I have, five of them test poorly and have a large imbalance between sections or have shorts, so its no wonder I have having issues.  Now I have a nice set of six, passed on my tester, now passing on the GOTL.  These are very nice sounding power tubes and surprisingly quiet given their high gain of 14.  Going to spend some time with them over the next few days.  Their beefy heaters make a nice long-exposure photo too, here they are with the STC 6J5G.



6BL7 is my favorite power tube for the GOTL...!!  Great stuff!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> NOS 6BX/BL7's are not very common.  I have 3x Flat Plate 6BL7's and with also like a good set of 6, although for my cans, 4x seems to provide plenty of power.  The Flat Plate 6BL7's do sound a bit better than the others that are so commonly found.
> 
> I think all of my BX/BL7's have been used, a very low number of them, for me, have been noisy/unusable.



I had to go to some really obscure tube sellers to make that set of the flat-plates.  Most are NOS, and I think all but one of the duds were used, should have stuck to NOS!  All of my 6BX7 are NOS, I have very rarely found a bad NOS 6BX7.  I was very fortunate to find a seller with a large stock of NOS 6BX7 when I was planning for my GOTL.


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> 6BL7 is my favorite power tube for the GOTL...!!  Great stuff!



I have begun to really appreciate the 6BL7 power tube as well.  Thanks for your encouragement to get on this train!!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

About half of the 6BL7 flat-plates I have are rebrands, here are Tung-Sol and Hytron rebrands, all of the six I use have this plate construction.




But I also have a pair with a slightly different plate construction, think one of these tests poorly, but I wonder if they sound different, I don't have enough to find out.


----------



## whirlwind

I will have some 6BL7/6BX7 for sale at some point.

I won't be using them since I changed my OTL build to a different build.

I know I have a few flat plate tubes.


----------



## attmci

whirlwind said:


> I will have some 6BL7/6BX7 for sale at some point.
> 
> I won't be using them since I changed my OTL build to a different build.
> 
> I know I have a few flat plate tubes.



Which can replace both your GOTL and GEL3N? Please keep me posted.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> About half of the 6BL7 flat-plates I have are rebrands, here are Tung-Sol and Hytron rebrands, all of the six I use have this plate construction.
> 
> 
> 
> But I also have a pair with a slightly different plate construction, think one of these tests poorly, but I wonder if they sound different, I don't have enough to find out.



All of my Flat Plate 6BL7 are as your second set shown.  Does seem to be they go a bit deeper than normal 6BL7's (which go plenty deep, themselves).


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 3, 2019)

Comparing the Tung-Sol 12J5 (they were NOS in unopened orig packaging from 1944) and my TS 12SN7 Mouse Ears.

The 12J5's are preferred here.  The Mouse Ear sounds dryer, the 12J5 a touch warmer and adds an sense of intimacy that the Mouse Ear does not.
And I do believe you can paint me a believer that the sound stage is enhanced with a single triode per bottle L/R - so bonus points to the TS 12J5's for that attribute.

Every time I put in a pair of 12J5's, let them warm up and play some music, I am rather taken, with how nice they preform.

Long live 12J5's!

Cheers!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Looks like my Jupiter caps and swatch of overpriced resistors is supposed to arrive today  if my Mouser package comes early too, might be able to get to work on this project!

Also scheduled to arrive is my MH4 to 6SN7 adapter from @Deyan .  If all goes according to plan, could be a very interesting GOTL day.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 4, 2019)

Too quiet around here, I'll just keep talking 

Sadly, no Mouser today, so the work will be done Wednesday.  I did get my fancy hifi components though.

I decided to go with 1uF Jupiter caps.  The Russian PIO caps are also 1uF, Glenn typically uses 0.47uF Jupiters.  I did the measurements, I have a plan and they will fit, but they are chunky.  I have a penchant for giant capacitors from my Bottlehead building days, will also give a more 1:1 comparison after the cap changeout.  Obviously not a true A-B, I will do my best to stifle my bias.  I plan to use a familiar tube loadout and song playlist and do a before and after, mostly listening to see if there is a _difference_ not necessarily better or worse.

As for the resistors, I could not help myself and did spend some dollars on one fancy pair from Audio Note, for science!  From left to right, we have 22K 5W Kiwame carbon film, 22K 2W TKD metal film, and 22K 2W Audio Note non-magnetic tantalum (tantalum nitride thin film material).  Will also have a pair of metal film Vishays with the Mouser delivery.  After I install the caps, I am going to devise a way to "roll" these resistors, method TBD.  From a technical standpoint, the noise level of the resistors from highest to lowest should go carbon film > metal oxide > thin film (metal or tantalum).  Haven't found definitive information on the comparative noise levels of metal film (typically nickel-chrome) or tantalum nitride, just far deep-end audiophile subjectivity saying that tantalum resistors are the the bee's knees.  Other people swear by carbon film, saying they have a "vintage" sound.  All of the resistors fall within 1% tolerance, and the Audio Note resistors are almost perfectly matched from my measurements.

Will I hear any difference?  Is it all snake oil nonsense?  Probably lol but I'm having fun and that's all that matters.  MH4 adapter should be arriving any minute...


----------



## Velozity

Ok as promised, the GOTL family has first crack at my GEC 6AS7G's before I open it up to others.  With my GOTL taking up permanent residence at work, I'd prefer not to use such expensive unicorn tubes.  I've listened to them, they sound phenomenal, and are definitely worthy of all the praise.  But I will be content using my other power tubes instead on a daily basis.  I bought these NOS and I only put at most 10-12 hours on each tube, if that.  $500 shipped and insured anywhere in the US.  International we can discuss in PM.  I also am going to sell 4 socket savers I bought from @Deyan.  I don't see myself needing them now that I've settled on a few tube combos that I really like.  These would be better appreciated by all you guys that constantly roll.  $32 shipped for all 4.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Velozity said:


> Ok as promised, the GOTL family has first crack at my GEC 6AS7G's before I open it up to others.  With my GOTL taking up permanent residence at work, I'd prefer not to use such expensive unicorn tubes.  I've listened to them, they sound phenomenal, and are definitely worthy of all the praise.  But I will be content using my other power tubes instead on a daily basis.  I bought these NOS and I only put at most 10-12 hours on each tube, if that.  $500 shipped and insured anywhere in the US.  International we can discuss in PM.  I also am going to sell 4 socket savers I bought from @Deyan.  I don't see myself needing them now that I've settled on a few tube combos that I really like.  These would be better appreciated by all you guys that constantly roll.  $32 shipped for all 4.



If I hadn't just splurged on a bunch of tubes, I would absolutely buy these, too bad!  If someone else doesn't, I might justify it somehow


----------



## Xcalibur255

Something about the Jupiter caps gives me pause.  They have a reputation for failing in high heat environments.  I know this is mostly true of the older version that's not made anymore, but I still get the impression that this part will not last as long as anything else in the amp.

There are enough people around here using them now that I guess we will find out one day.

I think the Audyn True Copper Max would be a good substitute that should sound nearly as good, and they are quite a bit cheaper as well.  There is no wax or oil to leak on these, just copper foil.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

The adapter has arrived, so begins the MH4 experiment.  I asked Deyan to build this adapter for me for the sake of determining if these tubes will be featured in the SET amp @2359glenn will be building for me.  They are mostly pre-war, 4V / 1A  European B5 base drivers with gain anywhere from 20-40 depending on the model.  Using high gain powers (Toshiba 6BX7) to evaluate for noise.  So far, first impressions are a resounding YES.  I am getting some 60Hz noise though, cannot say if that is related to use of an adapter or the tubes themselves, but should be a good test for when I switch from AC to DC for the driver filaments in the next week or so.  Filaments in the SET amp will be filtered DC.  Other than the 60Hz, the tubes are quiet.  I am eager to see how the MOV MH4/MHL4 compare to the MOV L63 since they are its direct predecessor.

 

Here is what is on the menu for the evening:

Marconi-Osram CV399 (military MH4)
Marconi-Osram MH4 metallized
Marconi-Osram MHL4
Mullard NR52/CV1173
RWN Neuhaus K1694
Valvo A4110


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 4, 2019)

Started with the MOV CV399, now listening to the MOV MHL4.  Realized after popping these in they have mesh plates, which is a first for me.  I suspect the metallized MOV MH4 do too based on their age.

These tubes have incredible air and soundstage, might be the largest I have heard in my GOTL, will have to do more listening to be sure, new toy syndrome is strong, but it is undeniable these are wonderful tubes, even with the 60Hz noise, so far only audible without music playing.

Right now listening to Michael Nyman's soundtrack to the film _The Piano_.


----------



## mordy

How did you accomplish 4V instead of 6.3V? External source?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 4, 2019)

mordy said:


> How did you accomplish 4V instead of 6.3V? External source?



Inside Deyan's adapter are two sets of two 1ohm resistors, 2ohms in series with 20W dissipation, across the filaments to drop from 6.3V to 4V.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Started with the MOV CV399, now listening to the MOV MHL4.  Realized after popping these in they have mesh plates, which is a first for me.  I suspect the metallized MOV MH4 do too based on their age.
> 
> These tubes have incredible air and soundstage, might be the largest I have heard in my GOTL, will have to do more listening to be sure, new toy syndrome is strong, but it is undeniable these are wonderful tubes, even with the 60Hz noise, so far only audible without music playing.
> 
> Right now listening to Michael Nyman's soundtrack to the film _The Piano_.



Very exciting, LG...

The adapter is knocking the 6.3v back to 4v?

Also..,Heating the sn7 socket in the GOTL with highly filtered DC is dead easy, with one of these and a regulator attached to a good laptop computer power supply:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-Special-saver-for-6SN7-6BL7-ect/191741357847

Cheers!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> Very exciting, LG...
> 
> The adapter is knocking the 6.3v back to 4v?
> 
> ...



Yessir, high wattage resistors on the interior of the adapter are dropping the filament voltage to make this possible.  Not a long-term solution, mostly to give them a trial run before they are put in a SET amp.  My only small reservation now is the noise, will see how it responds once rectified and filtered.

Big thanks to @Deyan for putting this together for me!


----------



## mordy

Does the adapter get hot?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 4, 2019)

mordy said:


> Does the adapter get hot?



It was stress tested by Deyan before sending, at 4V / 1A, the enclosure plateaued around 50C after 1 hour


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> It was stress tested by Deyan before sending, at 4V / 1A, the enclosure plateaued around 50C after 1 hour


Thanks, watching your discoveries and explorations with great interest!


----------



## GDuss

So I've spent the last week or so trying out EL32s in the driver triplet configuration.  This has been with multiple SN7, SL7 tubes in 6V and 12V varieties (Ken Rad, NU, Tung Sol, RCA).  And all testing with Philips Miniwatt EL32s I got off the sales forum.  The adapters were made by xulingmrs.  She wasn't selling them anymore, but I asked her if she would make some and she did (thanks Mrs. Xu).  She made some with and without guide pins, I got the ones with guide pins (she has both types on her store now, although less of the guide pin version since I bought some of those).  And I tested this with both 6AS7G and 6BL7 power tubes.

My conclusion from all of this is that as a general rule, the EL32s help fill out the mids.  It's not a huge difference but it's there.  I haven't noticed any changes in low or high end, basically just mids.  And what they seem to do is help make the parts of music sound more cohesive, as if musicians are interacting with each other on a real stage rather than being isolated instruments you can pick out of blackness.  I don't think it's closing down the stage, it's still just as wide/deep etc with or without the EL32, it's just like there is more sound present within the stage.  I'm not sure how to describe this properly, maybe it's that the images of each instrument/musician are larger, so they seem like they interact more.  I would say overall that I like it, and it helps increase the cohesiveness of musicians, especially with live recordings.  Is it going to be something everyone wants?  Probably not, especially if you want images to be as far away from each other as possible.  And maybe for something like classical, having everything be clearly separable is what you want.  But I don't listen to classical, so with live recordings with 3,4,5 musicians, I like to hear them feeding off of each other.

In any case, these are clearly just my impressions.  Maybe others who have used EL32s in triplet can see what they think.  This may also help better formulate my thoughts on what I'm hearing.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Looks like my Jupiter caps and swatch of overpriced resistors is supposed to arrive today  if my Mouser package comes early too, might be able to get to work on this project!
> 
> Also scheduled to arrive is my MH4 to 6SN7 adapter from @Deyan .  If all goes according to plan, could be a very interesting GOTL day.



You might wait until Wednesday when a box of goodies arrive. There is a standoff and terminal strip for the Jupiter capacitors.


----------



## Velozity

JazzVinyl said:


> Very exciting, LG...
> 
> The adapter is knocking the 6.3v back to 4v?
> 
> ...





HeyJV, did you notice a significant reduction in noise by doing this?  My amp is pretty well silent as it is but maybe that is to be attributed to the Lundahl and Goldpoint.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> So I've spent the last week or so trying out EL32s in the driver triplet configuration.  This has been with multiple SN7, SL7 tubes in 6V and 12V varieties (Ken Rad, NU, Tung Sol, RCA).  And all testing with Philips Miniwatt EL32s I got off the sales forum.  The adapters were made by xulingmrs.  She wasn't selling them anymore, but I asked her if she would make some and she did (thanks Mrs. Xu).  She made some with and without guide pins, I got the ones with guide pins (she has both types on her store now, although less of the guide pin version since I bought some of those).  And I tested this with both 6AS7G and 6BL7 power tubes.
> 
> My conclusion from all of this is that as a general rule, the EL32s help fill out the mids.  It's not a huge difference but it's there.  I haven't noticed any changes in low or high end, basically just mids.  And what they seem to do is help make the parts of music sound more cohesive, as if musicians are interacting with each other on a real stage rather than being isolated instruments you can pick out of blackness.  I don't think it's closing down the stage, it's still just as wide/deep etc with or without the EL32, it's just like there is more sound present within the stage.  I'm not sure how to describe this properly, maybe it's that the images of each instrument/musician are larger, so they seem like they interact more.  I would say overall that I like it, and it helps increase the cohesiveness of musicians, especially with live recordings.  Is it going to be something everyone wants?  Probably not, especially if you want images to be as far away from each other as possible.  And maybe for something like classical, having everything be clearly separable is what you want.  But I don't listen to classical, so with live recordings with 3,4,5 musicians, I like to hear them feeding off of each other.
> 
> In any case, these are clearly just my impressions.  Maybe others who have used EL32s in triplet can see what they think.  This may also help better formulate my thoughts on what I'm hearing.



Hello GDuss!

Ohhhhhh, driver triplet with the EL32's!  Yes, I am doing the driver triplet now, with the Sylvania 12J5's (NOS from 1944/45) and the Mullard Straight smoked glass EL32's with a pair of 6080's.

I started without the EL32's - listening to an Ottmar Liebert & Luna Negra recording of the song: "Samba Pa Ti (Thru Every Step In Life You Find Freedom From Within)".

This is a pair of classical acoustic guitars (nylon strings), electric guitar, electric bass, congas, hand claps and lots of hand percussion.  Listening w/o the EL32's in, I hear a triangle, hand bells and other hand percussion.  The hand percussion instruments are very far off in the mix.  Very clear and distinct but located 'way over yonder'.

Add the EL32's and the mids, upper mids and lower treble is all clarified, the instruments that seemed to so far off are brought up in the mix. Stage is not compromised, things are still in precise locations, and separated from others. It reminds me of a DAC upgrade!

The mids have a "lot more to hear" than w/o them.  When I use the EL32's for a long period them remove them, it sounds like things are missing that should have been there.
I feel they add immensely to the overall presentation.  

I sometimes listen to a song with the EL32's out, then again with them in, and almost universally, each time, I prefer what I get, with them in.

Glad you took the plunge and gave them a go, sounds like your experiences match @mordy and myself, in saying the addition of EL's adapted to the C3g sockets is a positive for the GOTL's SQ.

Cheers and good listening!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Velozity said:


> HeyJV, did you notice a significant reduction in noise by doing this?  My amp is pretty well silent as it is but maybe that is to be attributed to the Lundahl and Goldpoint.



Hello Velo..

My amp is well controlled for noise too.  My only exception was 6N7 (a driver a really like).  
When using the 6N7 and the six pack of 6BX7 or 6BL7, I did have enough hum to notice it between songs.  If I stay with lower mu powers, the hum is barely noticeable. 

Heating the SN7 socket externally with 6.3v of filtered DC completely killed the 6N7 hum, and I am able to enjoy them with the higher mu powers (6BX/BL7).

Overall, hum is not an issue with this amp.  My one problem child was my (many) 6N7's used with the higher mu power tubes.


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello GDuss!
> 
> Ohhhhhh, driver triplet with the EL32's!  Yes, I am doing the driver triplet now, with the Sylvania 12J5's (NOS from 1944/45) and the Mullard Straight smoked glass EL32's with a pair of 6080's.
> 
> ...



Well thanks for the suggestion to try this, and for the idea to ask Mrs Xu if she still had these adapters.

I agree there is just more to hear with the EL32s in.  There is still separation between instruments, and still a large stage, but you're right, when you take them out it's like something is then missing from the mids.  It's true they are bringing up sounds from what is in the background without them.  But I also think it makes the foreground players and sounds seem larger, more robust.  

I like the DAC upgrade analogy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> I like the DAC upgrade analogy.



That is exactly what it reminds me of...a better DAC, you listen, and think:  "Really? All that was IN there, all along?!!"

Grins....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> You might wait until Wednesday when a box of goodies arrive. There is a standoff and terminal strip for the Jupiter capacitors.



I will wait for your package!  Thanks for sending the parts.  Heck, maybe I will add the rectifier too, might as well do it all while I am in there.  I bought some combination drill/tap bits to mount the capacitor clamp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 4, 2019)

Listening to the Valvo A4110 now...just, wow.  The bass on these and the Mullard NR52 is just nuts.  I don't want to make any dramatic statements, too soon, but suffice to say these tubes are meeting and exceeding all of my expectations.  My desk is in a state of absolute tube chaos, what is wrong with me...


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> The bass on these and the Mullard NR52 is just nuts.


 Nuts as in Ken Rad+ 6BX7 nuts,or nuts in a mortal sense?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Nuts as in Ken Rad+ 6BX7 nuts,or nuts in a mortal sense?



For me good nuts, like head-encapsulating, slamming, visceral nuts.

Really hit me when I was listening to the song "Space Is Only Noise" by Nicolas Jaar which has a deeeep sub-bass line throughout, woah.  This is all with my Cocobolo Auteur.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> For me good nuts, like head-encapsulating, slamming, visceral nuts.
> 
> Really hit me when I was listening to the song "Space Is Only Noise" by Nicolas Jaar which has a deeeep sub-bass line throughout, woah.  This is all with my Cocobolo Auteur.


 Looking forward to your thoughts on these tubes when you get your hands on the VC.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Wow this is some "on the cutting edge" stuff you're exploring here.  Very cool.  If your impressions stay this positive I'm sure there will be people willing to take the plunge on building a dedicated amp to run these tubes next.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Looking forward to your thoughts on these tubes when you get your hands on the VC.



Yeah, I was going to say, I can't even imagine!  My time with them on the 300B at ZMFestivus has stuck with me, I think about it every time I go for a run and listen to my EDM running playlist.  Listened to some of those with the VC and 300B, sounded so good.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Wow this is some "on the cutting edge" stuff you're exploring here.  Very cool.  If your impressions stay this positive I'm sure there will be people willing to take the plunge on building a dedicated amp to run these tubes next.



Thanks, Glenn was crazy enough to buy some of these tubes too without hearing them, and they are not inexpensive, that is for sure, so I am very happy my faith is being rewarded.  Very little info on them out there, pretty much only being used in the DIY community from what I can tell.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks, Glenn was crazy enough to buy some of these tubes too without hearing them, and they are not inexpensive, that is for sure, so I am very happy my faith is being rewarded.  Very little info on them out there, pretty much only being used in the DIY community from what I can tell.



Not inexpensive is the first thing I noticed in scanning for them....
Some are _really_ expensive!


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> So I've spent the last week or so trying out EL32s in the driver triplet configuration.  This has been with multiple SN7, SL7 tubes in 6V and 12V varieties (Ken Rad, NU, Tung Sol, RCA).  And all testing with Philips Miniwatt EL32s I got off the sales forum.  The adapters were made by xulingmrs.  She wasn't selling them anymore, but I asked her if she would make some and she did (thanks Mrs. Xu).  She made some with and without guide pins, I got the ones with guide pins (she has both types on her store now, although less of the guide pin version since I bought some of those).  And I tested this with both 6AS7G and 6BL7 power tubes.
> 
> My conclusion from all of this is that as a general rule, the EL32s help fill out the mids.  It's not a huge difference but it's there.  I haven't noticed any changes in low or high end, basically just mids.  And what they seem to do is help make the parts of music sound more cohesive, as if musicians are interacting with each other on a real stage rather than being isolated instruments you can pick out of blackness.  I don't think it's closing down the stage, it's still just as wide/deep etc with or without the EL32, it's just like there is more sound present within the stage.  I'm not sure how to describe this properly, maybe it's that the images of each instrument/musician are larger, so they seem like they interact more.  I would say overall that I like it, and it helps increase the cohesiveness of musicians, especially with live recordings.  Is it going to be something everyone wants?  Probably not, especially if you want images to be as far away from each other as possible.  And maybe for something like classical, having everything be clearly separable is what you want.  But I don't listen to classical, so with live recordings with 3,4,5 musicians, I like to hear them feeding off of each other.
> 
> In any case, these are clearly just my impressions.  Maybe others who have used EL32s in triplet can see what they think.  This may also help better formulate my thoughts on what I'm hearing.


Hi DGuss,
I tried the EL32 with the 6x6BX6 tubes but had to discontinue because I got loud pops and crackles - got scared enough not to try low mu power tubes which may have worked. Was recovering from losing a driver in my T1 headphones from a noisy popping tube....
Instead I switched to the EL8 and now the Telefunken EL11 tubular. As you say, the extra pair of drivers always add to the sound presentation in a positive way by filling out the sound. Removing them makes it sound thinner.
I am rolling 6C5/6J5 metal tubes now. Almost all the brands sound very good and I enjoy sampling the bargains on eBay.
Today I rolled Ken-Rad, National Union, GE, CBS, Philco and Westinghouse. The distinctions between different brands are not major. Have to spend more time to get a handle on the sound differences.
Have fun!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Think we have @heliosphann also trying EL32 as driver triplet.  Looking forward to his impressions, as well


----------



## attmci

Nice.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Mu...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks, Glenn was crazy enough to buy some of these tubes too without hearing them, and they are not inexpensive, that is for sure, so I am very happy my faith is being rewarded.  Very little info on them out there, pretty much only being used in the DIY community from what I can tell.


Hi LG,
Here is a suggestion for another tube in your HM4 collection:





A 1930's British Made Marconi HM4.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-1-Marc...425642?hash=item2f37128d6a:g:35MAAOSwpvldjPGQ
This German seller states that he has more REN904 and other 30-40's tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> Here is a suggestion for another tube in your HM4 collection:
> 
> 
> ...



Excellent!  Love that Art Deco pattern in this Tube!!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> Here is a suggestion for another tube in your HM4 collection:
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, mordy.  I have browsed that seller's stock, believe me!  I actually haven't bought any of these tubes from eBay, just different European tube sellers, the prices are much better.

That tube pictured is a "catkin" tube, a glassless, all metal tube made only for a few years in the 1930s, did not last long they are very uncommon from what I have gathered, something of a collector's item.

Here is an excerpt from a August 1933 issue of "Radio-Craft" talking about this "revolutionary" tube design  read up on this a few months back, interesting stuff!

http://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-craft/new-english-all-metal-tube-radio-craft-august-1933.htm


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> I tried the EL32 with the 6x6BX6 tubes but had to discontinue because I got loud pops and crackles - got scared enough not to try low mu power tubes which may have worked.



You think it was the tubes?  Or adapters?



mordy said:


> Today I rolled Ken-Rad, National Union, GE, CBS, Philco and Westinghouse. The distinctions between different brands are not major. Have to spend more time to get a handle on the sound differences.



I'm curious about the differences in sound within a brand between say their 6SN7 compared to dual 6J5s.  I know that there is wide variation even within a brand just among their different 6SN7s (maybe less so across 6J5s within a brand).  I think JV said before that the 6J5s keep the house sound of the brand, but can you replicate a well-known 6SN7 with a pair of 6J5s from the same brand?  Ken Rads may have great bass whether 6SN7 or 6J5.  Is there a Tung Sol 6J5 equivalent of the TS round plate 6SN7?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 4, 2019)

GDuss said:


> Is there a Tung Sol 6J5 equivalent of the TS round plate 6SN7?



Hey GDuss - on this topic, check out my post here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1958#post-15152863

Basically, it is my opinion that the ladder plate and round plate Tung-Sol 6SN7GT sound the same, so the ladder plate Tung-Sol 6J5/12J5 are the equivalents to the BGRP.  You can get a pair of the 12J5s for only $30 or so, it is a steal.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey GDuss - on this topic, check out my post here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1958#post-15152863
> 
> Basically, it is my opinion that the ladder plate and round plate Tung-Sol 6SN7GT sound the same, so the ladder plate Tung-Sol 6J5/12J5 are the equivalents to the BGRP.  You can get a pair of the 12J5s for only $30 or so, it is a steal.



This is the kind of post I was looking for, vintage August 2019.  I'm assuming this is part of the rationale for your conversion to 6J5 sockets, and the sell-off of your 6SN7s?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 4, 2019)

GDuss said:


> This is the kind of post I was looking for, vintage August 2019.  I'm assuming this is part of the rationale for your conversion to 6J5 sockets, and the sell-off of your 6SN7s?



Yep, I did the same type of comparison a few times and got similar results.  I never intended to sell my 6SN7s since they are very good tubes and many are quite rare, but I decided I could use the money, there is always one more tube to try after all.  I am keeping my favorites


----------



## JazzVinyl

I believe @gibosi is very knowledgeable about the "House Sound" of brands and how it boils down to which factory in which time period,  manufactured the valve.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 4, 2019)

One more pic, sorry I am being lazy tonight, no long exposure GOTL pictures  doesn't matter much when the tubes are coated!

Now listening with low-gain powers, Nippon Electric 6520.  At gain of 2, the noise I mentioned in my other posts is nowhere to be heard, the tubes are quiet and sound great.  These are the metallized MOV MH4, doing a little back and forth with junior, one of my favorite drivers the MOV L63.  These tubes sound very natural and effortless, extremely spacious and three-dimensional staging, they have a particularly smooth and relaxed presentation but do not lack at all for detail, I cannot imagine the word fatiguing entering my mind when listening, the L63 actually sound a little more aggressive by comparison.  Until now, I would never have used the word aggressive to describe the L63, because they truly are not, but these comparisons are all relative.  Just my initial thoughts going between the two for an hour or so with familiar music.


----------



## mordy (Nov 4, 2019)

GDuss said:


> You think it was the tubes?  Or adapters?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious about the differences in sound within a brand between say their 6SN7 compared to dual 6J5s.  I know that there is wide variation even within a brand just among their different 6SN7s (maybe less so across 6J5s within a brand).  I think JV said before that the 6J5s keep the house sound of the brand, but can you replicate a well-known 6SN7 with a pair of 6J5s from the same brand?  Ken Rads may have great bass whether 6SN7 or 6J5.  Is there a Tung Sol 6J5 equivalent of the TS round plate 6SN7?


Hi GDuss,
Hard to say if it was the pair of adapters, the EL32 tubes or the combination with the BX power tubes. Stopped using the EL32 and got rid of the adapters so I cannot check it anymore. But since JV and others have used the EL32 without any problems I would not worry about it if everything checks out.
I have acquired over 20 6C5/6J5 and two pairs of the the 12V varieties  and I am presently checking them out and familiarizing myself with them. It seems that we are all into rolling new $3 tubes, the difference is only how many zeros follow the first digit
LOL. $3, $30, $300 - same thing - I mean the same fun!
I did compare a TS BGRP with a pair of TS 6C5GT and felt that the presentation was better with the the single triodes. The same impression with a Sylvania 6SN7W black base and a pair of Sylvania 6J5GT. Detailed impressions have to wait; too many tubes to get a feel for right now.
I am curious how a metal TS 6J5 will compare to the BGRP or 6J5GT (should be here in a few days).
Many of these tubes are quite old and pose challenges in dating and trying to figure out who made them - rebranding was common. And with the metal black top hat design you cannot see the internals at all and no identification possible.
ATM I am testing a pair of 6J5 metal tubes. One is a RCA with date code O43 (Jan 1953?) and the other a CBS tube. The CBS is heavier - probably more stuff inside (or heavier armor), and has a date code PA. CBS bought a small high quality Massachusetts manufacturer called Hytron around 1954. What does PA mean? Don't know. Public address system in Pennsylvania?
Sorry if I am getting off the track - the tubes do these things to you.......
The CBS is better sounding than the RCA.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> It seems that we are all into rolling new $3 tubes, the difference is only how many zeros follow the first digit
> LOL. $3, $30, $300 - same thing - I mean the same fun!



It's all fun of course, but who doesn't love the chance for a giant killer, when a pair of tubes for $6 can beat a holy grail tube.  It's great to be able to have an amp where these experiments are all possible.



mordy said:


> I did compare a TS BGRP with a pair of TS 6C5GT and felt that the presentation was better with the the single triodes. The same impression with a Sylvania 6SN7W black base and a pair of Sylvania 6J5GT. Detailed impressions have to wait; too many tubes to get a feel for right now.



You ever wonder if all the tube sellers follow these forums for what is trending in tube use?  Then they start raising prices accordingly?  Maybe we shouldn't talk about any of this .


----------



## mordy

For sure the professional tube sellers are following the forums - you will suddenly see many more tubes for sale of a certain kind. But it is the high priced guys that are watching and there are just too many out there from regular folks so in this case I am not worried that the prices will go up, at least not on the metal tubes.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi guys, somehow it seems I stopped getting alerts from this thread coincidentally at the same time as my schedule changed in a way that didn't allow time for going through all the posts on the 2359 thread. I even tried unsubscribing than re-subscribing and I'm still not receiving notifications even with that option checked. Strange... Maybe we can arrange a 'grant' to allow me an extra day off work so I can go through the 800 posts I've missed since October 20th, LOL! 
Or how about this - at least you guys can please remember to mention my name proceeding the @ symbol if there's any interesting happenings here, thanks! I guess I'll be seeing you guys around periodically. - Levi


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 5, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> ... I feel the Mullard ECC31 is as good as the Fivre, Mazda 6N7G, just warmer and better texture. Not sure why I don't roll the ECC31 more. It's quiet and sounds like a million bucks. Gibosi reckons the ECC31 with adapter is more correctly bias than the ECC32.


This post got me thinking - I wonder what kind of result could be had by the way of adapters that have cathode resistors inside to make said tubes operate at optimal bias... No switches for cathode bias,  no guessing if said tubes will operate at full spec on your amp, just plug and play with the adapter. Maybe that's something  @Deyan could look into, adding in a resistor to some of his adapters upon request. But of course this design would also come the burden of understanding of the variables of cathode resistor bias settings according to the amps architecture and other variables.

This is by no means a requirement, and I can't even say it will make a definite sonic improvement, but I would ascertain this may have some merit.


----------



## Deyan

DecentLevi said:


> This post got me thinking - I wonder what kind of result could be had by the way of adapters that have cathode resistors inside to make said tubes operate at optimal bias... No switches for cathode bias,  no guessing if said tubes will operate at full spec on your amp, just plug and play with the adapter. Maybe that's something  @Deyan could look into, adding in a resistor to some of his adapters upon request. But of course this design would also come the burden of understanding of the variables of cathode resistor bias settings according to the amps architecture and other variables.
> 
> This is by no means a requirement, and I can't even say it will make a definite sonic improvement, but I would ascertain this may have some merit.



I always thought of that but as you said the amp's architecture is the biggest obstacle.


----------



## DecentLevi

Deyan said:


> I always thought of that but as you said the amp's architecture is the biggest obstacle.


Glenn should know the recommended cathode resistor values for a specific tube on a specific amp if you ask him. But then probably the adapter cost would double.


----------



## Deyan

I doubt. Resistors are not very expensive. For me it doesn't matter if I'll solder a resistor or a piece of wire so no extra charge on the work involved.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Glenn should know the recommended cathode resistor values for a specific tube on a specific amp if you ask him. But then probably the adapter cost would double.



Not so easy it will only add to the resistor in the amp.  And what if it needs a lower value.
Plus it will need a cathode resistor bypass capacitor.


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 5, 2019)

Deyan said:


> I doubt. Resistors are not very expensive. For me it doesn't matter if I'll solder a resistor or a piece of wire so no extra charge on the work involved.





2359glenn said:


> Not so easy it will only add to the resistor in the amp.  And what if it needs a lower value.
> Plus it will need a cathode resistor bypass capacitor.


Deyan I'm glad we share the same sentiment and that you would offer to possibly take on such a task.
The way I envision something like this working is by creating an amp around whichever natively-accepted tube that needs the highest cathode current - this way all other tubes that need an adapter would just require varying levels of resistance to lower that high cathode current.

However a problem could be that if the tube requiring the highest cathode current is one that requires an adapter than the above concept would mean stock tubes would run at the wrong cathode current, taking us back to the conundrum of just going with a switch anyway. And would a series of two resistors (one in the amp + one in the adapter) be not recommended? Then maybe it would need some sort of bypass for some tubes. I suppose the cathode resistor bypass capacitor would be be something inside the amp not the adapter?

The bigger question could be which of the output tubes on my planned 'El Darwain' amp needs the highest current. Both of you may be able to connect the dots; that's about as much as I can solve on this riddle.

EDIT: Oh now this would seem to make sense:
- Design the amp around the stock tubes just like any amp
- Add a switch to bypass the cathode resistor for any output tubes that require a much lower or higher current than stock
- Add the appropriate resistor to said adapters, unless the value is already close enough to stock value


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> Deyan I'm glad we share the same sentiment and that you would offer to possibly take on such a task.
> The way I envision something like this working is by creating an amp around whichever natively-accepted tube that needs the highest cathode current - this way all other tubes that need an adapter would just require varying levels of resistance to lower that high cathode current.
> 
> However a problem could be that if the tube requiring the highest cathode current is one that requires an adapter than the above concept would mean stock tubes would run at the wrong cathode current, taking us back to the conundrum of just going with a switch anyway. And would a series of two resistors (one in the amp + one in the adapter) be not recommended? Then maybe it would need some sort of bypass for some tubes. I suppose the cathode resistor bypass capacitor would be be something inside the amp not the adapter?
> ...



I have a feeling that you have heater current and a desired cathode resistance value (for optimal performance, lowest distortion) mixed up?  
Ohms law has a symbol for current and different symbol for resistance, they are not 'one and the same',


----------



## DecentLevi

Certainly I know there's more at play that makes a tube compatible than cathode current, there's also plate voltage and heat current. The latter two are more or less already up to spec for most of the alternative tubes I want to roll in my upcoming amp, and it's just the cathode resistance I'm trying to find a solution for. Be it voltage, current or amps, I was basically proposing for whatever electricity that goes into the cathode of the alternative tubes; that the resistor inside the amp could be bypassed by a switch allowing a resistor inside the adapter for the specific tube give it either more or less electricity than for the stock tubes, accordingly.


----------



## GDuss

Ok, next elementary school question... what is the verdict on differences between 6SN7 and 6N7?  They are both dual triode drivers, where the 6J5 is a single triode but used in a dual driver setup, at least with the adapters in the GOTL.  Sounds like separating out the triodes from a single tube in the SN7 to dual tubes in the J5 is beneficial, but then that makes the SN7 and N7 quite similar to each other.

I'm guessing there is a post about this somewhere in this thread, possibly even from the year 2019, but please help educate me on the conclusions if they exist.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 5, 2019)

GDuss said:


> Ok, next elementary school question... what is the verdict on differences between 6SN7 and 6N7?  They are both dual triode drivers, where the 6J5 is a single triode but used in a dual driver setup, at least with the adapters in the GOTL.  Sounds like separating out the triodes from a single tube in the SN7 to dual tubes in the J5 is beneficial, but then that makes the SN7 and N7 quite similar to each other.
> 
> I'm guessing there is a post about this somewhere in this thread, possibly even from the year 2019, but please help educate me on the conclusions if they exist.



LOL...no problem GDuss...
6N7 is a dual triode as the 6SN7/12SN7/12SL7's are.  But they have a "common cathode".  The others have a cathode/grid/anode for each triode.  6N7 has two grids, two anodes but one cathode.
So does the ECC31 tube.  6N7 requires an adapter due to the common cathode.  6N7 has an amplification factor of 35, 6SN7 is 20 and 6SL7 is 70.

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/6/6N7.pdf

You can see one pin labeled "K" for both cathodes.

Compare that to 6SN7 datasheet:

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/6/6SN7GT.pdf

Two pins are labeled K (cathode).

6N7 is a good sounding tube in the GOTL...I am going to try a Deyan made adapter to put 2x 6N7's in the SN7 socket, one for L and one for R, to see if the stage benefits from separate bottles.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I might add...very basic tube amp theory:

The Cathode is the main emitter of electrons inside the tube (once heated).

The grid is where the input signal is applied (between the cathode and anode).

Anode is where the signal is collected, as amplified (the anode is also known as the plates).

Tiny signal input, gets amplified as flying electrons pass through it and get collected at the anode (plates).  

Anode (plates) signal from the input (driver) tube gets sent to the grid(s) of the power tubes for power (current) to be added.  Anode (plates) signal  from the power tubes are then collected, to drive the little speakers in the headphones.

https://www.electronics-notes.com/a...alves-tubes/electrodes-cathode-grid-anode.php


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> LOL...no problem GDuss...
> 6N7 is a dual triode as the 6SN7/12SN7/12SL7's are.  But they have a "common cathode".  The others have a cathode/grid/anode for each triode.  6N7 has two grids, two anodes but one cathode.
> So does the ECC31 tube.  6N7 requires an adapter due to the common cathode.  6N7 has an amplification factor of 35, 6SN7 is 20 and 6SL7 is 70.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the details on the different tube designs, and the links to Frank's pages.  So does having a common cathode vs multiple cathodes have any impact on the sound?  Amplification factor between the 6N7 and 6SN7 are close (closer than the 6SL7 at least) so it doesn't seem to impact that very much.  I get that separate bottles with separate structures would help with staging vs everything in a single bottle, but it doesn't make sense (not to me, and not yet) that one vs two cathodes would influence sound.  This could all just be a "listen for yourself and decide" situation, which I am happy to try soon.


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> I might add...very basic tube amp theory:
> 
> The Cathode is the main emitter of electrons inside the tube (once heated).
> 
> ...



I like the elementary school tube theory.  Hopefully one day I will graduate to high school, but you have to start somewhere.

As with my question above, how the design of the grid influences the sound does not make sense to me, but there may not be an obvious way to make sense out of it.  It's probably just listening to figure out how they sound different.


----------



## 2359glenn

The electrons get boiled off the cathode the grid is fine wires and the electrons have to go through them to get to the plate.
So a negative voltage is put on the grid that slows down / blocks some electrons that are negative. The signal moves the grid positive and negative.
This intern allows a large change of electrons going through the grid to be collected by the positive plate.
Then the signal is taken off the plate most of the time.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 5, 2019)

I once heard someone use a car tire analogy to describe how a tube works.

In this analogy, the air molecules inside the tire are the electrons, and the tire valve is the grid.  As the cathode is heated and a high positive voltage is placed on the plate, a tremendous _pressure_ is generated as the negatively charged electrons are attracted to the positive charged plate, the same way the air pressure inside the car tire will force out a jet of air.

When the tire valve is pressed (a negative voltage is placed on the grid), it is opened and air molecules (electrons) are allowed to flow at high velocity out of the tire.  The harder you press the valve, the more forceful the jet of air molecules.  In the same way, the higher the negative voltage on the grid, the more electrons are allowed to pass and generate a larger current on the plate.

The current generated this way is many times more than the grid input signal, and thus amplification occurs.

Not a perfect analogy, but maybe it will help someone 

Also, not sure how this cathode bias resistor adapter idea will get around the bypass cap, unless you put a bypass cap inside every single adapter, maybe I am missing something.


----------



## whirlwind

^   That is a good analogy ^


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> Thanks for the details on the different tube designs, and the links to Frank's pages.  So does having a common cathode vs multiple cathodes have any impact on the sound?  Amplification factor between the 6N7 and 6SN7 are close (closer than the 6SL7 at least) so it doesn't seem to impact that very much.  I get that separate bottles with separate structures would help with staging vs everything in a single bottle, but it doesn't make sense (not to me, and not yet) that one vs two cathodes would influence sound.  This could all just be a "listen for yourself and decide" situation, which I am happy to try soon.



Don't know if common cathode is a detriment or not.  Always liked 6N7 in the GOTL. That metal 6N7 Ken Rad is cheap as chips, and sounds great!  
Definitely a "try it" deal


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I once heard someone use a car tire analogy to describe how a tube works.
> 
> In this analogy, the air molecules inside the tire are the electrons, and the tire valve is the grid.  As the cathode is heated and a high positive voltage is placed on the plate, a tremendous _pressure_ is generated as the negatively charged electrons are attracted to the positive charged plate, the same way the air pressure inside the car tire will force out a jet of air.
> 
> ...



The cathode resistor will need a bypass capacitor and a large one at that if you want bass.


----------



## GDuss

Thanks Everyone, this is all very helpful (and hopefully not just to me).  

Some of these questions are based on the post that @L0rdGwyn linked me to yesterday, and the included discussion in that post of how 3 different Tung Sol tubes with a either a round-plate or ladder-plate structure can sound similar and yet different (the TS BGRP and TS 6SN7GT are similar despite different plate designs, and the 6J5GT with a ladder plate sounds somewhat better than the BGRP, possibly because of splitting the triodes into different bottles).  I'm not sure there is an answer to the question of plate design vs sound (other than just listening and making a conclusion), I just think this is an interesting discussion.


----------



## Zachik

JazzVinyl said:


> 6N7 requires an adapter due to the common cathode. 6N7 has an amplification factor of 35, 6SN7 is 20


That explains things - I have 2 VERY cheap NOS 6N7 tubes, and they sound REALLY good on the GOTL. Switching from 6SN7 - it sounds BIGGER, but I guess in big part that can be attributed to higher amp factor!



JazzVinyl said:


> 6N7 is a good sounding tube in the GOTL.


100% agree!



JazzVinyl said:


> Don't know if common cathode is a detriment or not. Always liked 6N7 in the GOTL. That metal 6N7 Ken Rad is cheap as chips, and sounds great!


Yup - I paid less than $10 for a metal 6N7 (NOS) and it is very quiet and sound great. Gotta love how the GOTL can make magic out of dirt cheap tubes


----------



## JazzVinyl

Zachik said:


> Yup - I paid less than $10 for a metal 6N7 (NOS) and it is very quiet and sound great. Gotta love how the GOTL can make magic out of dirt cheap tubes



Definitely agree - and one of my favorite attributes of the GOTL..."cheap tube magic"!!


----------



## DecentLevi

2359glenn said:


> The cathode resistor will need a bypass capacitor and a large one at that if you want bass.





2359glenn said:


> Not so easy it will only add to the resistor in the amp.  And what if it needs a lower value.
> Plus it will need a cathode resistor bypass capacitor.


Glenn would the bypass capacitor need to be inside the adapter or could it be inside the amp? And if I understand right, the bypass capacitor would be to facilitate proper performance when the cathode resistor is bypassed to allow an external cathode resistor (in the adapter) to work right... (if this is wrong by all means correct me )

If the cap has to be in the adapter, then I'll just go ahead and skip on this concept and go with a simple switch on the front or back of my amp to select between the two most prominent / average cathode bias settings of my output tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

How do I explain this.
The current the tube draws through the cathode resistor makes a voltage drop that is the tubes bias.
But don't want the audio to be dropped. So the capacitor goes across the resistor sending the audio around the resistor so it don't get dropped too.
There will be already a resistor and capacitor in the amp. If another resistor is added it must have a bypass capacitor too.


----------



## chrisdrop

I love all the "how it works" discussion guys. Thanks (as always) for the wisdom sharing.


----------



## whirlwind

chrisdrop said:


> I love all the "how it works" discussion guys. Thanks (as always) for the wisdom sharing.




You really can learn a lot hanging around this thread....it will also make your wallet much lighter...


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 6, 2019)

Heading to the garage soon to get to work on my Jupiter cap change  will start removing the old components, by the time I finish, Glenn's package for me will have arrived.

Listening now with a very familiar tube setup for me, has become something of my default, MOV L63 drivers and Toshiba 6BX7GT powers.  Trying to commit it to memory for after I change out the caps, even noted the stop on the Goldpoint.  Then I'll have to figure out how to roll these resistors.

Also listening with a different DAC, @Zachik sent me the Lampizator Amber 3.  Obviously making this trickier with another variable, but what the heck I have limited time it, completely dwarfs my little powerhouse PC behind it


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> You really can learn a lot hanging around this thread....it will also make your wallet much lighter...


As if the alternative (college) is any cheaper...


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Also listening with a different DAC, @Zachik sent me the Lampizator Amber 3. Obviously making this trickier with another variable, but what the heck I have limited time it, completely dwarfs my little powerhouse PC behind it


I miss it... Going back to my *pretty decent* DAC - feels like a noticeable step down! 
And yeah - it is a beast!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> I miss it... Going back to my *pretty decent* DAC - feels like a noticeable step down!
> And yeah - it is a beast!



There just might be something to this tube DAC business...to be continued 

If I ever decided I wanted one, I wonder if I could have it built in a smaller footprint, probably not but who knows.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> I wonder if I could have it built in a smaller footprint, probably not but who knows.


@Gopher knows...


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> There just might be something to this tube DAC business...to be continued
> 
> If I ever decided I wanted one, I wonder if I could have it built in a smaller footprint, probably not but who knows.


 I dont think so. Time for a rack. 
Ive yet to hear the Amber,but Fred tells me it can hold its own with the TRP....which takes tube rolling in combination with the GOTL to a silly level,but man does it sound good!


----------



## Deyan

Anyone wanna give this one a go.


----------



## GDuss

Deyan said:


> Anyone wanna give this one a go.



LOL.  The ceilings in my house are not high enough, otherwise it definitely looks like a good idea .


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Time for a rack.


Yup - I have made this transition couple weeks ago!


----------



## Deyan

GDuss said:


> LOL.  The ceilings in my house are not high enough, otherwise it definitely looks like a good idea .



There is more to come @DecentLevi has ordered all the adapters in existence.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> There just might be something to this tube DAC business...to be continued
> 
> If I ever decided I wanted one, I wonder if I could have it built in a smaller footprint, probably not but who knows.



You mean a tube amplified analog signal after the DAC chip has processed the ones and zeros...

There was a fellow in England who was taking Ebay DAC boards, and grabbing the signal after the analog conversion and sending it L/R through a pair of ECC88's...


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> I dont think so. Time for a rack.
> Ive yet to hear the Amber,but Fred tells me it can hold its own with the TRP....which takes tube rolling in combination with the GOTL to a silly level,but man does it sound good!


And then there is the insane level where you start tube rolling in a tube preamp as well


----------



## chrisdrop

OK, I think a basic power question:

According to Glenn: _"The amp can draw 250VA with the most powerful tubes in it like two 6336 or four 6AS7."_

I am on UK power (230 V)

I am looking at a power device that outputs "max 10 amps"

How do I do the sums to sort out is it enough? What else can I plug in? I thought I understood this (somewhat) and now think I don't 

Is this the gist? https://www.rapidtables.com/convert/electric/va-to-amp.html Some Ohm's law rearrangement seems in order...


----------



## 2359glenn

No what is insane is to rebuild the hole preamp to use a different tube.
Go from #26 tube to MH4 nuts


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> OK, I think a basic power question:
> 
> According to Glenn: _"The amp can draw 250VA with the most powerful tubes in it like two 6336 or four 6AS7."_
> 
> ...



It is basically 250 watts so 250/240 = 1.04 amps the amp only has a 1.6 amp fuse in it.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> No what is insane is to rebuild the hole preamp to use a different tube.
> Go from #26 tube to MH4 nuts



You know what is even more insane?  Running back and forth from your house to your garage ten times to swap resistors in your amp because you suddenly feel very strongly that they do change the sound...


----------



## 2359glenn

2359glenn said:


> It is basically 250 watts so 250/240 = 1.04 amps the amp only has a 1.6 amp fuse in it.



You need a couple of short alligator clips and just clip them in and out.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 6, 2019)

Yeah I thought of doing something like that, but I didn't actually think it was going to make a difference, so I didn't do it! Lol oh how I regret it.

I might have to go back and do it though, I've only been comparing two resistors, haven't even gotten to the other two...I don't think I have the stamina to do it today.


----------



## GDuss

Deyan said:


> There is more to come @DecentLevi has ordered all the adapters in existence.



Maybe he's trying to recreate the Seattle space needle!!!


----------



## GDuss

Last night was an eye opening experience.  It was my first experiment with a 6N7, a metal Ken Rad that I got for $5 (half of a pair that was $10, not a matched pair though).  @mordy helped me identify it as being made in the 3rd quarter of 1942.  It's in pristine condition, and looks like it's never been touched.  I wasn't expecting much, even though the discussion yesterday indicated that 6N7s are great tubes in the GOTL.  The best way I can sum it up is wow.  This tube has some serious dynamics, mids are exceptional with just the right amount of euphony to them, bass is like other Ken Rad's I've tried, and the stage/separation was equally impressive.  Treble was good too.  Everything about it was a shock (although maybe not to others reading this).  This was with Mullard EL32s and 6x 6BL7s.  I was actually in the mood for somewhat of a relaxing listening session last night, and that's not at all what I ended up with from this tube (pretty sure it slapped me in the face a few times), but it was totally ok with me.  I'll take those kinds of surprises any day of the week.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> I don't think I have the stamina to do it today.


Some guys go to the gym, whereas LG is running back and forth with a 25 lbs amp... Bootcamp power training


----------



## Zachik

GDuss said:


> Last night was an eye opening experience.  It was my first experiment with a 6N7, a metal Ken Rad that I got for $5 (half of a pair that was $10, not a matched pair though).  @mordy helped me identify it as being made in the 3rd quarter of 1942.  It's in pristine condition, and looks like it's never been touched.  I wasn't expecting much, even though the discussion yesterday indicated that 6N7s are great tubes in the GOTL.  The best way I can sum it up is wow.  This tube has some serious dynamics, mids are exceptional with just the right amount of euphony to them, bass is like other Ken Rad's I've tried, and the stage/separation was equally impressive.  Treble was good too.  Everything about it was a shock (although maybe not to others reading this).  This was with Mullard EL32s and 6x 6BL7s.  I was actually in the mood for somewhat of a relaxing listening session last night, and that's not at all what I ended up with from this tube (pretty sure it slapped me in the face a few times), but it was totally ok with me.  I'll take those kinds of surprises any day of the week.


6N7 is totally under-hyped here!
I suspect some sneaky folks are secretly buying the entire available stash, before start praising it and create competition for themselves


----------



## GDuss

Zachik said:


> 6N7 is totally under-hyped here!
> I suspect some sneaky folks are secretly buying the entire available stash, before start praising it and create competition for themselves



Well the 6N7 has won me over.  I guess I should shut up about it and buy more while they're still cheap.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 6, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Some guys go to the gym, whereas LG is running back and forth with a 25 lbs amp... Bootcamp power training



I regret nothing!

So, here is the lowdown on the resistors.  The four I had to try were the Kiwame carbon film, TKD metal film, Vishay metal film, and Audio Note tantalum nitride thin film.  As I got started, I decided I just didn't have it in me to swap all of these resistors in one sitting, so I'd do an abbreviated A-B for now and started with the Kiwame (since I had read much about them on DIY Audio forum), then I would put in the Audio Note tantalum, I figured these were the most expensive so I might as well keep them in the amp, not expecting to hear an undeniable difference...

Got listening to the Kiwame, "hmm, this sounds pretty darn good, smooth, laid back, spacious, and satisfying" I thought to myself, not really attributing any of it to the resistors.  Went and swapped in the Audio Note tantalums in much more permanent fashion, clipped the ends and everything.  Came back in to settle down, and immediately felt something was lost.  The sound was brighter, more aggressive, a little less spacious, albeit probably more revealing.

At this point, pretty far into the afternoon having not eaten lunch, thought it could be my ears/brain playing tricks, but I had to be sure.  So I ate, put the Kiwames back in, but left the Audio Note with one end attached for the sake of easily swapping one for the other.  Sure enough, with the Kiwames back in place, my sense of satisfaction with the sound returned.  I made this swap three or four more times with the same results, the Kiwames despite being $1 compared to $18 for the Audio Note (uh yeah, I spent $18 on a resistor) have a smoother, warmer, more laid back sound.  The tantalums are brighter, more aggressive, and less spacious to my ears.  I feel very confident at this point this was not some placebo, I _expected _the Audio Note resistors to be better.

So, apparently the 22K resistors do matter and do change the sound.  Of note, the Kiwame are carbon film and 5W, the Audio Notes are tantalum nitride and 2W.  Those crazy guys on DIY Audio were right...

Edit: wow, rereading this post, what I am hearing aligns very well with what Dsavitsk had said about the Kiwame versus metal films in two identical circuits.  Never thought there was anything to this, I'm a bit shocked.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/carbon-film-vs-metal-film-revisited.121104/


----------



## rnros (Nov 6, 2019)

Zachik said:


> 6N7 is totally under-hyped here!
> I suspect some sneaky folks are secretly buying the entire available stash, before start praising it and create competition for themselves





GDuss said:


> Well the 6N7 has won me over.  I guess I should shut up about it and buy more while they're still cheap.



Agree. Early 40s Ken Rad 6N7 (metal jacket) is a great tube. True NOS in original military boxes available for $5 to $10!
But, LOL, there’s no $$$ prestige and it doesn’t glow in the dark.

Think there are still plenty of these available, as more people buy, more will be listed.
Doesn’t make sense to list a $5 tube that never sells.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-KEN-RAD-JAN-CKR-6N7-VT-96-Vintage-Tube-US-ARMY-US-NAVY-1944-WWII-6N7-NOS/303251719244?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 6, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I dont think so. Time for a rack.
> Ive yet to hear the Amber,but Fred tells me it can hold its own with the TRP....which takes tube rolling in combination with the GOTL to a silly level,but man does it sound good!



But I don't have room for a rack!  I'm pushing it as is, there is practically a headphone amp in every room at this point, ha!  We'll see where this demo leads, but I am a fan so far.



2359glenn said:


> No what is insane is to rebuild the hole preamp to use a different tube.
> Go from #26 tube to MH4 nuts



These tubes are worth it Glenn, might be the best drivers I own now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> Last night was an eye opening experience.  It was my first experiment with a 6N7, a metal Ken Rad that I got for $5 (half of a pair that was $10, not a matched pair though).  @mordy helped me identify it as being made in the 3rd quarter of 1942.  It's in pristine condition, and looks like it's never been touched.  I wasn't expecting much, even though the discussion yesterday indicated that 6N7s are great tubes in the GOTL.  The best way I can sum it up is wow.  This tube has some serious dynamics, mids are exceptional with just the right amount of euphony to them, bass is like other Ken Rad's I've tried, and the stage/separation was equally impressive.  Treble was good too.  Everything about it was a shock (although maybe not to others reading this).  This was with Mullard EL32s and 6x 6BL7s.  I was actually in the mood for somewhat of a relaxing listening session last night, and that's not at all what I ended up with from this tube (pretty sure it slapped me in the face a few times), but it was totally ok with me.  I'll take those kinds of surprises any day of the week.



Right on!  A $5.00 tube that slaps ya in the face!

Love it!!


----------



## chrisdrop

Any brand preferences on the 6BL7s?


----------



## whirlwind

GDuss said:


> Well the 6N7 has won me over.  I guess I should shut up about it and buy more while they're still cheap.



If you like them and they are cheap....buy a few...they won't go bad.

Sometimes silence is the best thing, until you have all of those tubes that you want of course


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> Right on!  A $5.00 tube that slaps ya in the face!
> 
> Love it!!



Yep, that's pretty much what happened last night.


----------



## GDuss

whirlwind said:


> If you like them and they are cheap....buy a few...they won't go bad.



In some cases the shipping is more than the tube!!!



whirlwind said:


> Sometimes silence is the best thing, until you have all of those tubes that you want of course



I'm shutting up now for real.


----------



## DecentLevi

In case anyone may want to try GEC KT66, here seems like an especially good deal
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649564801-2-vintage-gec-kt66-output-tubes/images/2456118/


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> Any brand preferences on the 6BL7s?



The regular GE's are great.  Older Sylvania "Flat Plates" tend to develop noises (hard to find good ones), but later Sylvania's are fine.  Many brands are actually GE re-brands...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Jupiter caps are in.  The 82K resistors run underneath the caps, there is a terminal below them so the resistors have a path to ground, I folded over two of the top lugs and covered them with heatshrink to use as anchors for the caps with zip ties.  Worked out really well, the caps are too heavy on their own.

Hard to say definitively, but I do feel there is more air and space with the Jupiters, not going to swap these out like I did the resistors!  Regardless, very happy with them and the audible changes my modifications have made so far 

Last but not least will be to rectify and filter the AC to DC for the driver filaments.  Would have considered doing it today, but the mail was delivered late and probably better to break up the work anyway, won't get to it until Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Jupiter caps are in.  The 82K resistors run underneath the caps, there is a terminal below them so the resistors have a path to ground, I folded over two of the top lugs and covered them with heatshrink to use as anchors for the caps with zip ties.  Worked out really well, the caps are too heavy on their own.
> 
> Hard to say definitively, but I do feel there is more air and space with the Jupiters, not going to swap these out like I did the resistors!  Regardless, very happy with them and the audible changes my modifications have made so far
> 
> Last but not least will be to rectify and filter the AC to DC for the driver filaments.  Would have considered doing it today, but the mail was delivered late and probably better to break up the work anyway, won't get to it until Monday or Tuesday.



Oh!  The Jupiters replaced the Russian 'Paper In Oil' caps?

Appears to be another successful surgery, doctor!  Excellent work!

On the DC heater change...can you rectify 1/2 wave DC?  You have some AC and some DC there.  Maybe you can, just never thought of trying that.  And the Voltage Drop, will not be too much?

Again...Great Job, LG!!


----------



## Monsterzero

DecentLevi said:


> In case anyone may want to try GEC KT66, here seems like an especially good deal
> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649564801-2-vintage-gec-kt66-output-tubes/images/2456118/


 I got excited there for a minute. Theyre of different constructions. No idea how different they sound from one another,but I think I'd prefer a pair of the same construction. Good price though.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> LOL...no problem GDuss...
> 6N7 is a dual triode as the 6SN7/12SN7/12SL7's are.  But they have a "common cathode".  The others have a cathode/grid/anode for each triode.  6N7 has two grids, two anodes but one cathode.
> So does the ECC31 tube.  6N7 requires an adapter due to the common cathode.  6N7 has an amplification factor of 35, 6SN7 is 20 and 6SL7 is 70.
> 
> ...


My upcoming amp will be able to take the 6N7 in the 6J5 sockets. Ships next week. I should be able to compare two 6N7's (in the 6J5 sockets) vs a single 6N7 (in the 6SN7 socket with an adapter).


----------



## mordy

Should be interesting to hear if there is a difference in sound.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> My upcoming amp will be able to take the 6N7 in the 6J5 sockets. Ships next week. I should be able to compare two 6N7's (in the 6J5 sockets) vs a single 6N7 (in the 6SN7 socket with an adapter).



That sounds great LS...!!

What powers in the new amp...er....what is the rest of the configuration?

Cheers!!


----------



## DecentLevi

GDuss said:


> Well the 6N7 has won me over.  I guess I should shut up about it and buy more while they're still cheap.



I'll mention again that (at least on F.A. amps), I really prefer the RCA over Ken-Rad 6N7 black metal tubes, for a more of a natural tone and realistic bass vs. somewhat extra lush with the K-R's, but this too may vary on Glenn amps. I still have both to compare later when mine arrives.



L0rdGwyn said:


> I regret nothing!
> 
> So, here is the lowdown on the resistors.  The four I had to try were the *Kiwame carbon film*, TKD metal film, Vishay metal film, and Audio Note tantalum nitride thin film.  As I got started, I decided I just didn't have it in me to swap all of these resistors in one sitting, so I'd do an abbreviated A-B for now and started with the Kiwame (since I had read much about them on DIY Audio forum), then I would put in the Audio Note tantalum, I figured these were the most expensive so I might as well keep them in the amp, not expecting to hear an undeniable difference...
> 
> ...



Hmmm, @2359glenn have you ever tried the Kiwame carbon film resistors in your amps - provided any compatibility? And LG this didn't mention if you compared the TKD and Vishay resistors.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> That sounds great LS...!!
> 
> What powers in the new amp...er....what is the rest of the configuration?
> 
> Cheers!!


I'll create a separate thread after I've been listening to it for a week or so, but basically.
- Two chassis (power and amp)
- Can take 2-6 power tubes. 5998/6AS7 selector switch
- Drivers: 2 * 6J5 or 2 * C3g or 1 * 6SN7. Selector switch for these tubes and also 6SL7, 12SL7 and 12SN7.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> I'll create a separate thread after I've been listening to it for a week or so, but basically.
> - Two chassis (power and amp)
> - Can take 2-6 power tubes. 5998/6AS7 selector switch
> - Drivers: 2 * 6J5 or 2 * C3g or 1 * 6SN7. Selector switch for these tubes and also 6SL7, 12SL7 and 12SN7.



Sounds good!!  I say keep the content here!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

DecentLevi said:


> And LG this didn't mention if you compared the TKD and Vishay resistors.



Yes, I did not get to them, too much to do in one days work, swap the caps, replace the resistors, also redid the wiring for the driver filaments.  At some point, I will get some alligator clips and probably a few more resistors to try, will make for a much more rapid A-B comparison, quite interested now that I have heard a difference.  Very possible though the audible change is more related to the resistor material than the particular brand.

I think the Lampizator DAC is also contributing, but with the changes I've made, resistors caps and otherwise, my GOTL has taken a decidedly warm and smooth turn sonically, and I am really enjoying it, sounds very natural to me.


----------



## DecentLevi

Deyan said:


> There is more to come @DecentLevi has ordered all the adapters in existence.


Not every adapter, just these, (LOL)
- (1x) MHLD6 / CV1101 to 6SN7 adapter
- (1x) Dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter
- (2x) EL11 to 6SN7 adapters
- (2x) EL12 Spez to KT66 adapters
- (4x) EL12 to KT66 adapters
- (4x) EL3N to KT66 adapters
- (4x) EL38 to KT66 adapters
- (4x) EL39 to KT66 adapters
- 2X ECC88 / 6N23P to 6SN7
- 1x 6N7 (VT-96) to 6SN7

Deyan thus far has been superb to work with. He assures me he has top quality materials (much silver and no brass or nickel crap) and he offered a reasonable package deal on the above. I was told I can also use the 6N23P, E88CC, 6CG7 in the ECC88 adapter and the EL32 adapter has to be dual, like the 6J5 / L63 / 6C5 adapters, as well as EL11. Luckily EL34 and KT(xx) series don't need adapters on my upcoming amp. 

Although I have heard something about EL34 and KT66 being wired different?


----------



## mordy

Folks, the time has come to roll fuses! Those little glass thing - a - ma - jigs:
https://www.thecableco.com/accessories/fuses/ultimate-shd-bees-wax-fuse.html






Those fuzzy little things cost a mere $225 each.
Re audiophile fuses there are differing opinions:

"It is simply amazing how much a lighter wallet tends to improve one's hearing."

"An audio quality fuse makes no sense to me. It is too small to have any filtering effect, but it is the highest resistance in the AC line. That resistance is close to zero though. The poster stated he heard an immediate difference. So, although I am an electrical engineer and cannot imagine any difference in-between different manufactures of fuses there must be something to it. I do not know if the change is expected or real."

"The reason why replacing the fuse might make your system sound better is because if the original fuse has been in there since the amplifier was new and it may have oxidized contacts. And just by the process of removing the old fuse and putting in the new one, you're scraping those contacts clean and reducing their resistance and electrical noise.

So instead of spending $150 on an "audiophile" fuse, try simply removing your existing fuse and putting it back in, and check if that also gives you a sudden improvement in sound quality."

"I changed the stock fuse into HPA German fuse which cost me 40 dollars.

The sound got refined with smooth treble after change of fuse.


Then one week after, I replaced 40$ fuse with 150% blue fuse.

The sound change drastically not just more refined but fast rhythm out of my system."

And on and on....

Color me con*fuse*d......


----------



## mordy (Nov 6, 2019)

Here is a tip for a free sound level meter developed by the US Government. It is an app downloadable to your smart phone and uses the built in microphone(s) in your smart phone (check on the internet for the microphone location(s) on your phone). You can also use an external microphone.
Easy to use. I just put on my headphones and when I had adjusted them for loud volume I took them off and put my phone close to the earcup. I got readings in the high 70's dB range - 75dB is supposed to be safe for long term listening.
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/noise/app.html
If you search for the app the name is NIOSH SLM. My iPhone has two microphones: on the top and the bottom - I used the one that gave me higher readings.




I imagine that you could check for channel imbalance as well.


----------



## DecentLevi

2359glenn said:


> How do I explain this.
> The current the tube draws through the cathode resistor makes a voltage drop that is the tubes bias.
> But don't want the audio to be dropped. So the capacitor goes across the resistor sending the audio around the resistor so it don't get dropped too.
> There will be already a resistor and capacitor in the amp. If another resistor is added it must have a bypass capacitor too.


So @Deyan I guess we'll call off this idea - unless there's some way you think it would be practical and if there would be a cost effective way to add both a resistor and cap inside the adapters. Plus each may need burn-in, and I must never forget to turn back the amp bypass switch before returning to stock tubes.

Glenn the cathode bias 2-way switch would seem more favorable.


----------



## DecentLevi

I got my pair of Marconi MHLD6 / CV1101 tubes today. I'll be the 'guinea pig' to try these on my upcoming Glenn amp. They will run as dual drivers with a custom requested adapter from Deyan. 


 
On the right is an EL32 for size comparison.


----------



## Deyan

DecentLevi said:


> So @Deyan I guess we'll call off this idea - unless there's some way you think it would be practical and if there would be a cost effective way to add both a resistor and cap inside the adapters. Plus each may need burn-in, and I must never forget to turn back the amp bypass switch before returning to stock tubes.
> 
> Glenn the cathode bias 2-way switch would seem more favorable.



Well since the bodies for my adapters are quite large I don't think fitting a few components inside doesn't seem to be much of a problem.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I got excited there for a minute. Theyre of different constructions. No idea how different they sound from one another,but I think I'd prefer a pair of the same construction. Good price though.



These tubes sound fantastic...one of the best that I have personally heard.  A pair of the same construction is a good idea IMO.
@leftside can help you out with the different KT66 tubes. Here is something that he shared with me.
 







leftside said:


> My upcoming amp will be able to take the 6N7 in the 6J5 sockets. Ships next week. I should be able to compare two 6N7's (in the 6J5 sockets) vs a single 6N7 (in the 6SN7 socket with an adapter).



I will be very interested to hear your findings after some proper time with your amp.
Good times ahead


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> @leftside can help you out with the different KT66 tubes.


@leftside - can you share here some notes on various KT66 tubes?
Also, which amp have you tested them on? GEL3N with adapters, or different amp?


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Jupiter caps are in.  The 82K resistors run underneath the caps, there is a terminal below them so the resistors have a path to ground, I folded over two of the top lugs and covered them with heatshrink to use as anchors for the caps with zip ties.  Worked out really well, the caps are too heavy on their own.
> 
> Hard to say definitively, but I do feel there is more air and space with the Jupiters, not going to swap these out like I did the resistors!  Regardless, very happy with them and the audible changes my modifications have made so far
> 
> Last but not least will be to rectify and filter the AC to DC for the driver filaments.  Would have considered doing it today, but the mail was delivered late and probably better to break up the work anyway, won't get to it until Monday or Tuesday.



Those caps take hundreds of hours to fully settle.  You're going to be even more happy with the sound a month from now.

It's interesting and very telling that you can hear a difference so readily, and so soon.  Those NOS Soviet PIO caps are really nice sounding caps in their own right.  Imagine the kind of difference you get when you upgrade from some of the cheapo caps that are widely used in commercially sold amps.  Back when I owned the Icon Audio HP8 I did a cap swap like this.  It had those small white Solens that you find in just about everything, which according to those builders is a "premium" cap already.  In their place went Soviet K40Y9 PIOs which I think are what Glenn used to use a long time ago in his OTLs for coupling.  The difference was so great I might as well have replaced the whole amp.  Yeah, that sounds like exaggeration, but that's how I felt about it at the time.  I didn't particularly like that amp and changing that one set of caps made it enjoyable to listen to after that.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Nov 7, 2019)

@mordy

Fuses are, IMO, literally the final frontier.  Much like skydiving I decided I'm simply not interested in trying it.

On a more serious note, I think the key to all of this stuff is what is driving you to make the changes.  The reason I was exploring cables and such was because I was not totally happy with what I was hearing.  Hardness, glare, edge, etc. break immersion for me instantly and completely so I kept digging into all of these "audiofool" things hoping something would help.  In most cases they did, and I'm happy to leave the arguing about whether or not it was real or in my head to other people.  All that matters is the music sounds good to me.  Now that it does, I no long feel any urge or desire to keep tweaking or exploring these things further.  I got what I needed.  For now at least.  We all know our types don't ever truly stay happy with our setups for too long.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Those caps take hundreds of hours to fully settle.  You're going to be even more happy with the sound a month from now.
> 
> It's interesting and very telling that you can hear a difference so readily, and so soon.  Those NOS Soviet PIO caps are really nice sounding caps in their own right.  Imagine the kind of difference you get when you upgrade from some of the cheapo caps that are widely used in commercially sold amps.  Back when I owned the Icon Audio HP8 I did a cap swap like this.  It had those small white Solens that you find in just about everything, which according to those builders is a "premium" cap already.  In their place went Soviet K40Y9 PIOs which I think are what Glenn used to use a long time ago in his OTLs for coupling.  The difference was so great I might as well have replaced the whole amp.  Yeah, that sounds like exaggeration, but that's how I felt about it at the time.  I didn't particularly like that amp and changing that one set of caps made it enjoyable to listen to after that.



Glad to hear they will improve over time!  I never had an issue with the Russian PIO caps, the amp sounded very good as it was, but I am something of a tinkerer so I was curious.  If it weren't so time intensive, I would have loved to do an A-B comparison, using some alligator clips on the two sets of caps and swapping back and forth, but in the end the Jupiters were going to stay and I don't have unlimited free time unfortunately  for the 22K resistors on the other hand, it was an open competition, was very surprised the differences were so audible.  I'll be keeping my ears open to see how the Jupiter caps settle in.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> These tubes sound fantastic...one of the best that I have personally heard.  A pair of the same construction is a good idea IMO.
> @leftside can help you out with the different KT66 tubes. Here is something that he shared with me.


That picture shows the earliest KT66 tubes. From left to right are the clear glass (but bottle shape is slightly different), in the middle is black glass (not grey), next is ST/bulbous grey glass and on the end is the "regular" grey glass/black base. I'm not sure I'll ever find exact matches for the first three - especially in that condition. The brown base tubes were produced later. Brown base with clear glass were the last produced I think. I only know how the last two in the photo sound - and they sound superb.



Zachik said:


> @leftside - can you share here some notes on various KT66 tubes?
> Also, which amp have you tested them on? GEL3N with adapters, or different amp?


I've only used these in older McIntosh amps. As far as I know, whirlwind is the only one to try them in the GEL3N amp. My next headphone amp will take these tubes for sure.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 7, 2019)

leftside said:


> That picture shows the earliest KT66 tubes. From left to right are the clear glass (but bottle shape is slightly different), in the middle is black glass (not grey), next is ST/bulbous grey glass and on the end is the "regular" grey glass/black base. I'm not sure I'll ever find exact matches for the first three - especially in that condition. The brown base tubes were produced later. Brown base with clear glass were the last produced I think. I only know how the last two in the photo sound - and they sound superb.
> 
> 
> I've only used these in older McIntosh amps. As far as I know, whirlwind is the only one to try them in the GEL3N amp. My next headphone amp will take these tubes for sure.





I love the look of those older McIntosh amps, I bet those KT66 tubes were killer.
I  am particularly found of the black glass tube in the middle  

These tubes are a new journey for me and I am gobsmacked by them...I have tried 4 different powers and they all are better than good, everyone of them.

I can only imagine how good those 300B tubes sound.

@Sound Trooper has a couple of sets of EL34 for his amp.


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> I've only used these in older McIntosh amps. As far as I know, whirlwind is the only one to try them in the GEL3N amp. My next headphone amp will take these tubes for sure.


I see.  Do you have impressions or notes you could share with regards to how the different KT66 tubes compare (understanding it could be a little different in the GEL3N)?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Completed what I _think_ is my final GOTL mod, but you never know what the future will hold 

With @2359glenn 's guidance, now added a full wave bridge rectifier and filter cap to rectify the driver filament current from AC to DC.  Before with the MH4 tubes and high-gain drivers like 6BX7, a 60Hz buzz could be easily heard with music playing.  Now it is only audible at absolutely ear-bleeding volume levels.  These tubes were the worst case scenario, I am expecting no hum in any others.  Listening to my Fivre 6N7G with Toshiba 6BX7GT outputs right now, quietest this tube has ever been.  Made a cosmetic blunder while drilling holes in the back of the chassis, but hey, it's in the back, I'll get over it.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 7, 2019)

In other news, a new pair of ECC32 has joined the family.  These ones are older than my others, heat fins are perpendicular to the plates rather than diagonal, smoked glass with inverted tray getter, date code 1185 MLA.  I am a bargain ECC32 shopper, although you wouldn't know it if I told you the price, but I got a good deal on these great sounding but very expensive tubes.  I won't be getting more any time soon.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Completed what I _think_ is my final GOTL mod, but you never know what the future will hold
> 
> With @2359glenn 's guidance, now added a full wave bridge rectifier and filter cap to rectify the driver filament current from AC to DC.  Before with the MH4 tubes and high-gain drivers like 6BX7, a 60Hz buzz could be easily heard with music playing.  Now it is only audible at absolutely ear-bleeding volume levels.  These tubes were the worst case scenario, I am expecting no hum in any others.  Listening to my Fivre 6N7G with Toshiba 6BX7GT outputs right now, quietest this tube has ever been.  Made a cosmetic blunder while drilling holes in the back of the chassis, but hey, it's in the back, I'll get over it.


Hi LG,
I admire your work but I don't have enough knowledge to understand what I am looking at. Can't see any cosmetic imperfection, but I assume that there is an extra hole that wasn't intended. Maybe it can be covered with a sticker?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 7, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> I admire your work but I don't have enough knowledge to understand what I am looking at. Can't see any cosmetic imperfection, but I assume that there is an extra hole that wasn't intended. Maybe it can be covered with a sticker?



Hey mordy - in the photo, the big black capacitor is the filter cap, the four lug terminal on the back panel of the amp is the rectifier.  The outputs of the 6/12/25 volt switch go directly to the rectifier, which then hits the filter cap, then out to the driver filaments.

The imperfection isn't pictured  I was rushing while drilling and did not reverse the direction of my drill after the last hole, so rather than drilling the next hole, I simply gouged an ugly mark where my hole was supposed to go since the drill was spinning the wrong direction.  I drilled the hole over top of it but not in the original position, and still looked bad.  I covered it with a washer.  The terminal the hole was meant for is also crooked as a result.  I have a problem with perfectionism really doesn't matter, but I am still kicking myself.

I might find an excuse to get another chassis and replace the back panel.  That excuse would be changing the XLR inputs Wazzupi had Glenn put in for some nice RCA ones.  Can't say I will do it for sure, but the gears are turning...yeah, I am crazy.

Actually, if I got a new chassis, I could get rid of the XLR out on the front too, hmmm...


----------



## mordy

I did not mean more work for you LOL!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 7, 2019)

Not more work, more fun!  I enjoy hands on projects.

But tonight, I just enjoy the music.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Completed what I _think_ is my final GOTL mod, but you never know what the future will hold
> 
> With @2359glenn 's guidance, now added a full wave bridge rectifier and filter cap to rectify the driver filament current from AC to DC.  Before with the MH4 tubes and high-gain drivers like 6BX7, a 60Hz buzz could be easily heard with music playing.  Now it is only audible at absolutely ear-bleeding volume levels.  These tubes were the worst case scenario, I am expecting no hum in any others.  Listening to my Fivre 6N7G with Toshiba 6BX7GT outputs right now, quietest this tube has ever been.  Made a cosmetic blunder while drilling holes in the back of the chassis, but hey, it's in the back, I'll get over it.



I am interested in the DC driver heater current mod.  Which full wave rectifier did you use, and what size is the Cap?
Did you have a measurable voltage drop?

Appreciate!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> I am interested in the DC driver heater current mod.  Which full wave rectifier did you use, and what size is the Cap?
> Did you have a measurable voltage drop?
> 
> Appreciate!!



Hey JV - the rectifier is a 6A KBU type...unsure of the complete model number, Glenn might be able to say.

AC inputs right into the rectifier, DC outputs to the 10,000uF cap in parallel, DC out to filaments in parallel.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Working night shift this weekend, have to stay up all night tonight to condition, so I might be talking to myself a lot on here, hope you don't mind.  Going to try and get a handle on what this Lampizator DAC can do tonight.

Lost in the shuffle of the haul of tubes I've gotten over the past week are these beauties, GEC rebranded Mullard 6C5G.  Interesting aspect of these tubes, unlike other 6C5G I have seen that have more conventional flat or round plates underneath the internal shielding, these actually have a very thin, cylindrical plate just behind the shielding that is quite far from the grid, probably a dime or penny size in diameter.  Nice sounding tubes though, got them for a great price as well.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Working night shift this weekend, have to stay up all night tonight to condition, so I might be talking to myself a lot on here, hope you don't mind.  Going to try and get a handle on what this Lampizator DAC can do tonight.
> 
> Lost in the shuffle of the haul of tubes I've gotten over the past week are these beauties, GEC rebranded Mullard 6C5G.  Interesting aspect of these tubes, unlike other 6C5G I have seen that have more conventional flat or round plates underneath the internal shielding, these actually have a very thin, cylindrical plate just behind the shielding that is quite far from the grid, probably a dime or penny size in diameter.  Nice sounding tubes though, got them for a great price as well.


I haven't seen the Mullards with the GEC stickers before. Very nice. I'll have to check my Mullards and see if they have the same construction as yours.


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 8, 2019)

Going through my childhood photos I realized I might be an audioholic - for starters 
     
Here's one from this year


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> I haven't seen the Mullards with the GEC stickers before. Very nice. I'll have to check my Mullards and see if they have the same construction as yours.



Was able to get some Brimars too, two pairs of each, really enjoying both so far.  Many of the same attributes as the 6J5G/L63.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 8, 2019)

Well @Monsterzero , I think I can confidently say I am a Lampizator believer...I'll save the gory details for the impressions thread, but this DAC sounds great, without a doubt the most obvious improvement I have heard when A-Bing, slaying my little outfit of solid state DACs.  Been A-Bing, tube rolling, testing for nearly four straight hours with the GOTL.  Wish I knew what their special sauce was, very curious about the topology, I'll have to read into what info is out there.


----------



## Monsterzero (Nov 8, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well @Monsterzero , I think I can confidently say I am a Lampizator believer...I'll save the gory details for the impressions thread, but this DAC sounds great, without a doubt the most obvious improvement I have heard when A-Bing, slaying my little outfit of solid state DACs.  Been A-Bing, tube rolling, testing for nearly four straight hours with the GOTL.  Wish I knew what their special sauce was, very curious about the topology, I'll have to read into what info is out there.


 Im actually relieved to see you type those words. If you had come back and said, "Nope. Sounds the same as all the rest." I wouldve began to have doubted your ears. 

Glenn sent me the Raytheon JRK60 and adapter today for my DAC. Its a NOS rectifier,but I can def hear more 3D-ness. It has slightly less bass than the Brimar I had in there prior.

Finally, today I bought an Aurender N100H. It should be here in 5 days. Really glad to have finally landed a dedicated server.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Working night shift this weekend, have to stay up all night tonight to condition, so I might be talking to myself a lot on here, hope you don't mind.  Going to try and get a handle on what this Lampizator DAC can do tonight.
> 
> Lost in the shuffle of the haul of tubes I've gotten over the past week are these beauties, GEC rebranded Mullard 6C5G.  Interesting aspect of these tubes, unlike other 6C5G I have seen that have more conventional flat or round plates underneath the internal shielding, these actually have a very thin, cylindrical plate just behind the shielding that is quite far from the grid, probably a dime or penny size in diameter.  Nice sounding tubes though, got them for a great price as well.




Beautiful tubes


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Im actually relieved to see you type those words. If you had come back and said, "Nope. Sounds the same as all the rest." I wouldve began to have doubted your ears.
> 
> Glenn sent me the Raytheon JRK60 and adapter today for my DAC. Its a NOS rectifier,but I can def hear more 3D-ness. It has slightly less bass than the Brimar I had in there prior.
> 
> Finally, today I bought an Aurender N100H. It should be here in 5 days. Really glad to have finally landed a dedicated server.




"Tube DAC's" use a tiny IC chip to do the conversion from ones and zeros to analog.  It is amplifying the analog signal to "line level" output after the conversion, with a tube, rather than with an opamp.

Tubes play no role in the actual Digital To Analog conversion.


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> Finally, today I bought an Aurender N100H. It should be here in 5 days. Really glad to have finally landed a dedicated server.



Congrats.  I know you've been working on getting that server for a while, nice to see it's finally on its way.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> "Tube DAC's" use a tiny IC chip to do the conversion from ones and zeros to analog.  It is amplifying the analog signal to "line level" output after the conversion, with a tube, rather than with an opamp.
> 
> Tubes play no role in the actual Digital To Analog conversion.


Yes, having tubes amplifying the analog signal rather than an opamp is what I think gives tube DAC's their distinctive signature. Lampizator is also doing some sort of magic with the conversion from ones and zeros to analog in their DAC engine.


----------



## Monsterzero

Yeah I dunno how Lukasz does what he does,but whatever it is,keep on doing it.
I wonder if the Lampi+Glenn club will become five of us now?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I can't say when exactly, but I am likely going to become a member  have asked Fred a few questions, awaiting his response.  Probably couldn't make a purchase until Q2 of 2020.  I am interested to know what tube can be substituted for the JJ ECC99.  I know 6N6P and E182CC are equivalents, curious to know if 12BH7 can be used, it is a near equivalent.  I already have a favorite 12AU7 that I would put in the DAC, and probably a Bendix 6X5.


----------



## chrisdrop

Hi all

1) Odd request; I have a tube that I'd like to send someone and see how it works in someone else's amp;

VT231 6SN7GT KENRAD. It is used, but marked "tested" from a good tube seller.
_Ideally it would be someone in Europe just to minimise shipping costs_. I am not sure if there are any other active owners in Europe? PM me if you like and I will send it over. 

No need to send it back - so if it works well enough - all yours. I am working through some mains noise that my house has presently (irritatingly!). This is one of the tubes that I have tested at a location other than my house (somewhere with clean power). I thought it was noisy in my amp. 

Why? Because if you think it is "normal" on your amp, I'd be very curious/ keen to know. I am trying to gauge for myself what is people consider noisy and what people consider normal, etc.​
2) On a totally different note, for cleaning pins; Detoxit (red/ gold?). Various other (mostly older I think) tube rolling threads reference this stuff. Just emory board/ fine sandpaper? Alcohol?  Something else? 

3) Stop making me look at new and interesting DACs!

Tx
Chris


----------



## mordy

Re cleaning pins: I just use a little pen knife which has a fairly dull blade and scrape the pins gently. You can use anything - a knife, a scissors blade or whatever.
I recently acquired a good magnifying glass and it is easy to see the corrosion and spots on the pins. I work around the pins and check all around the pins.
Some people don't like the fancy and expensive chemicals and feel that they leave a residue.
Actually, I saw once a method of filling a shallow cup with sand and just turning the tube around in the sand polished the pins.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> 2) On a totally different note, for cleaning pins; Detoxit (red/ gold?). Various other (mostly older I think) tube rolling threads reference this stuff. Just emory board/ fine sandpaper? Alcohol? Something else?



I've just been using 90% isopropyl alcohol (2 rounds of cleaning with a cotton swab) and it's helped in several cases.  I tried fine grit sandpaper on another tube that had pins that looked much dirtier, and I'm not sure it helped, but I'm also not sure the problem with that tube was related to the pins.



chrisdrop said:


> 3) Stop making me look at new and interesting DACs!



I feel your pain here .


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> I can't say when exactly, but I am likely going to become a member  have asked Fred a few questions, awaiting his response.  Probably couldn't make a purchase until Q2 of 2020.  I am interested to know what tube can be substituted for the JJ ECC99.  I know 6N6P and E182CC are equivalents, curious to know if 12BH7 can be used, it is a near equivalent.  I already have a favorite 12AU7 that I would put in the DAC, and probably a Bendix 6X5.


I found changing the 12AU7 made a noticeable difference. I think I posted a few 12AU7 comparison's (in the Euforia - predecessor to Amber) a year or two ago. I tried replacing the ECC99 with a few E182CC, but no sound was produced, so I'm not sure what was going on there.


----------



## leftside

GDuss said:


> I've just been using 90% isopropyl alcohol (2 rounds of cleaning with a cotton swab) and it's helped in several cases.  I tried fine grit sandpaper on another tube that had pins that looked much dirtier, and I'm not sure it helped, but I'm also not sure the problem with that tube was related to the pins.


Same here. IPA for "regular dirty" pins and fine grit sandpaper for "very dirty and/or corroded" pins then clean up with IPA. The method used by Mordy is also good. I used to use deoxit, but it's too messy/leaves too much of a residue - and you'll need to clean up with IPA anyway if you use that method.


----------



## GDuss

leftside said:


> Same here. IPA for "regular dirty" pins and fine grit sandpaper for "very dirty and/or corroded" pins then clean up with IPA. The method used by Mordy is also good. I used to use deoxit, but it's too messy/leaves too much of a residue - and you'll need to clean up with IPA anyway if you use that method.



For a moment there, I though you were referring to the use of beer to clean the pins.  I was thinking what a waste of an IPA!!!  On a related note, I have a colleague who hates IPAs (beer).  He says they should only be used to clean floors and toilets.  I disagree with him, strongly.


----------



## leftside

GDuss said:


> For a moment there, I though you were referring to the use of beer to clean the pins.  I was thinking what a waste of an IPA!!!  On a related note, I have a colleague who hates IPAs (beer).  He says they should only be used to clean floors and toilets.  I disagree with him, strongly.


On a totally unrelated note, when I first moved to Canada over 20 years ago, I was dismayed at the lack of decent beer. How things have changed... You can easily walk between 10 different microbreweries in my neighborhood alone, and all sell fantastic beer/stout/lagers/etc, It's the same all across the US as well, and yes I like IPA  I'm predicting the same for the cannabis industry in 20 years time.


----------



## chrisdrop

GDuss said:


> For a moment there, I though you were referring to the use of beer to clean the pins.  I was thinking what a waste of an IPA!!!  On a related note, I have a colleague who hates IPAs (beer).  He says they should only be used to clean floors and toilets.  I disagree with him, strongly.


 get in my belly!
.. and stay away from my amp!


----------



## GDuss

leftside said:


> On a totally unrelated note, when I first moved to Canada over 20 years ago, I was dismayed at the lack of decent beer. How things have changed... You can easily walk between 10 different microbreweries in my neighborhood alone, and all sell fantastic beer/stout/lagers/etc, It's the same all across the US as well, and yes I like IPA  I'm predicting the same for the cannabis industry in 20 years time.



I used to brew beer when I was a graduate student, then I moved to Portland, OR after I graduated.  This was in 2003.  My own personal brewing stopped when I got there, because I could easily get to more microbreweries than I could possibly deal with, with lots of good IPAs.  Too many beers, too little time (kind of like tubes).


----------



## mordy (Nov 8, 2019)

I am far from a beer drinker but I like to look up stuff. Found a 41% alcohol IPA called Sink the Bismarck made by Brewdog (but I am afraid of dogs as well....)
https://www.brewdog.com/uk/
PS: Out of stock


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Well since no one else sprang for them and a good pair of GEC 6AS7G can't be abandoned to the Head-Fi classifieds, I did @Velozity a major favor and bought his pair from him 

Also, I am no longer a beer drinker, but when I was, Cleveland's crown jewel is Great Lakes Brewery and it was my favorite, check them out if you are ever in the Great Lakes region.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> I found changing the 12AU7 made a noticeable difference. I think I posted a few 12AU7 comparison's (in the Euforia - predecessor to Amber) a year or two ago. I tried replacing the ECC99 with a few E182CC, but no sound was produced, so I'm not sure what was going on there.



Hmm that is odd about the E182CC, but good to know the 12AU7 did make a difference.  My favorite is the Brimar CV4034.  It is a flying lead tube, so needs to be soldered to a 9-pin adapter (can be purchased cheap from China), but it is the best 12AU7 I have heard.  Billington has them for super cheap since not many people are willing to solder the leads.  A while back, TubeMonger was selling them pre-soldered with their patented base for around $80 a piece.  They sold like hotcakes when word got around how good the were.  I bought a pair myself, they are in my Rogue Audio integrated amp, I then went on to buy some unsoldered tubes and the bases to attach myself off an eBayer, since out of stock, Billington is the only one who has them.  The thought has crossed my mind to buy a large stock from Billington, solder them myself and resell, but who has the time.

Anyway, if I get the Amber 3, the Brimar CV4034 is my tube.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> I am far from a beer drinker but I like to look up stuff. Found a 41% alcohol IPA called Sink the Bismarck made by Brewdog (but I am afraid of dogs as well....)
> https://www.brewdog.com/uk/
> PS: Out of stock



It's probably out of stock because they must have decided to just put all of it in barrels, age it, and call it whisky .


----------



## dminches

L0rdGwyn said:


> I can't say when exactly, but I am likely going to become a member  have asked Fred a few questions, awaiting his response.  Probably couldn't make a purchase until Q2 of 2020.  I am interested to know what tube can be substituted for the JJ ECC99.  I know 6N6P and E182CC are equivalents, curious to know if 12BH7 can be used, it is a near equivalent.  I already have a favorite 12AU7 that I would put in the DAC, and probably a Bendix 6X5.



I am not sure which DAC you are referring to but they do not recommend tube rolling with the Amber 3.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

dminches said:


> I am not sure which DAC you are referring to but they do not recommend tube rolling with the Amber 3.



Yes it is the Amber 3.  I can't see why swapping equivalent tubes would harm anything.


----------



## dminches

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes it is the Amber 3.  I can't see why swapping equivalent tubes would harm anything.



Ask Fred.  

I have a Big 7 MKII which is a tube lover's dream.  I have used 300Bs, PX25s, 6A3, 101Ds and 45s.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

dminches said:


> Ask Fred.
> 
> I have a Big 7 MKII which is a tube lover's dream.  I have used 300Bs, PX25s, 6A3, 101Ds and 45s.



Will do.  If opening the chassis to change tubes would void the warranty, that would probably be a deal-breaker for me.  Plan to ask many questions before making any commitment, which would be 4-5 months out.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> On a totally unrelated note, when I first moved to Canada over 20 years ago, I was dismayed at the lack of decent beer. How things have changed... You can easily walk between 10 different microbreweries in my neighborhood alone, and all sell fantastic beer/stout/lagers/etc, It's the same all across the US as well, and yes I like IPA  I'm predicting the same for the cannabis industry in 20 years time.



Very cool that you have that many  microbreweries in that small area.....that sound like where I want to retire to!







L0rdGwyn said:


> Well since no one else sprang for them and a good pair of GEC 6AS7G can't be abandoned to the Head-Fi classifieds, I did @Velozity a major favor and bought his pair from him
> 
> Also, I am no longer a beer drinker, but when I was, Cleveland's crown jewel is Great Lakes Brewery and it was my favorite, check them out if you are ever in the Great Lakes region.




Wife and I have taken the tour three times at Great lakes Brewery....then filled a growler to bring home...what a cool set-up they have.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Very cool that you have that many  microbreweries in that small area.....that sound like where I want to retire to!


You'll have to come for a visit


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> You'll have to come for a visit




You live in paradise.....in the winter months here...count me in for  a couple of porters or stouts every evening and a couple of albums  

You listen mainly with LCD-4  ?


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 8, 2019)

GDuss said:


> For a moment there, I though you were referring to the use of beer to clean the pins.  I was thinking what a waste of an IPA!!!  On a related note, I have a colleague who hates IPAs (beer).  He says they should only be used to clean floors and toilets.  I disagree with him, strongly.



I have a newphew who loves IPA (India Pale Ale) but I am one who also would not drink it and using as a 'toilet cleaning solution' sounds more like it to me too  

We were in a restaurant here one day and I saw T-Shirts for sale, almost bought one for Nephew...it said:

*I* *P*ee  *A*lot when i drink beer


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well since no one else sprang for them and a good pair of GEC 6AS7G can't be abandoned to the Head-Fi classifieds, I did @Velozity a major favor and bought his pair from him
> 
> Also, I am no longer a beer drinker, but when I was, Cleveland's crown jewel is Great Lakes Brewery and it was my favorite, check them out if you are ever in the Great Lakes region.



The "Meter Green" Grinch is visiting again, LG


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 8, 2019)

Metal 6C5 RCA's arrived...so noisy that they were no fun.

Jumpering pins 1-8 appears to have quieted them down perfectly. Sounding pretty good!

Paid less then $10 delivered for 3x metal RCA 6C5's...


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah I dunno how Lukasz does what he does,but whatever it is,keep on doing it.
> I wonder if the Lampi+Glenn club will become five of us now?


I have placed the order with Fred TODAY!  Does it count, or only after I actually receive my Amber?


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> I have a newphew who loves IPA (India Pale Ale) but I am one who also would not drink it and using as a 'toilet cleaning solution' sounds more like it to me too
> 
> We were in a restaurant here one day and I saw T-Shirts for sale, almost bought one for Nephew...it said:
> 
> *I* *P*ee  *A*lot when i drink beer



I also like peated whisky, which some would say should be reserved for band-aids, tires, and car engines.  Admittedly the first time I had Laphroaig I didn't understand how anyone could drink it.  Less than 2 years later, I was visiting the distillery (which is not on the way to anything; that was a trip specifically to visit distilleries).  It grows on you, like IPA.


----------



## UntilThen

It's become a whisky thread? 

I thought I'll post my Verite in blue sunshine !


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> It's become a whisky thread?
> 
> I thought I'll post my Verite in blue sunshine !



You’re back. Where you been?


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> You’re back. Where you been?



I've been drinking whisky.


----------



## GDuss

UntilThen said:


> I've been drinking whisky.



That’s what I like to hear!!!


----------



## UntilThen

GDuss said:


> You’re back. Where you been?



I'm actually thinking of my babies coming home. I received this from Stavros. He did a Word document with photos of the GEC 6as7g. It's almost perfect !

It's travelled all the way from Greece to Sydney.... then to USA and then back to Sydney. It's travelled more than me.


----------



## UntilThen

Here it is.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Been listening to Steve Tibbetts all night.  He is an acoustic guitar player, New Age/Ambient-ish,
The RCA 6C5's are superb for this.  Can't believe how good $2 driver tubes sound.

RCA 6C5's and a six pack of 6BL7's...make the GOTL sing!


----------



## JazzVinyl

You can see the two red wires at the base of the tubes, used to jumper pins 1-8 to silence the 6C5's...

Cheers!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Got off early, so of course time for some late night jams.  Now with a pair of 6AS7G, I can run the official @2359glenn all GEC setup, L63 and 6AS7G, sounds so good.



Never want to be without a pair of these tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

One more photo for tonight then off to bed, has to be some fancy tubes for post 1,500.  Thanks to the Glenn threaders for the good conversation (and feeding my tube addiction) 

Pinkies out: Mullard ECC32 and GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 9, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> One more photo for tonight then off to bed, has to be some fancy tubes for post 1,500.  Thanks to the Glenn threaders for the good conversation (and feeding my tube addiction)
> 
> Pinkies out: Mullard ECC32 and GEC 6AS7G.




Which do you prefer best ?

GEC 6AS7G and Mullard ECC32 is exceptional

GEC 6AS7G  and  GEC B36 seemed like to much goodness to me after a long while of listening...it was fine for short sessions


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Got off early, so of course time for some late night jams.  Now with a pair of 6AS7G, I can run the official @2359glenn all GEC setup, L63 and 6AS7G, sounds so good.
> 
> 
> 
> Never want to be without a pair of these tubes.



My favorite tube combo with the Verite


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> One more photo for tonight then off to bed, has to be some fancy tubes for post 1,500.  Thanks to the Glenn threaders for the good conversation (and feeding my tube addiction)
> 
> Pinkies out: Mullard ECC32 and GEC 6AS7G.



We went from $2 ea 6C5 drivers, to a $1,500 tube compliment on the same page!!  The GOTL was said to sound outstanding, with both.


----------



## chrisdrop

For those GEC L63s, I think those would be "clear glass, shouldered shape. "
I can see other GEC options available as "Grey glass, shouldered shape" or "Straight sides, clear glass.".
Clear + shouldered I assume preferred ? Are there any other important GEC L63 qualifiers to look for?


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> For those GEC L63s, I think those would be "clear glass, shouldered shape. "
> I can see other GEC options available as "Grey glass, shouldered shape" or "Straight sides, clear glass.".
> Clear + shouldered I assume preferred ? Are there any other important GEC L63 qualifiers to look for?



Mine are Grey glass shouldered that I got from Langrex in UK.  Love them


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 9, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Which do you prefer best ?
> 
> GEC 6AS7G and Mullard ECC32 is exceptional
> 
> GEC 6AS7G  and  GEC B36 seemed like to much goodness to me after a long while of listening...it was fine for short sessions



Hmmm, very good question Joe...like making me choose my favorite of my children!!

I think I still prefer the MOV L63, but they are both exceptional no question.  Never got my hands on a B36 or B65, curious how similar they are to the L63.



chrisdrop said:


> For those GEC L63s, I think those would be "clear glass, shouldered shape. "
> I can see other GEC options available as "Grey glass, shouldered shape" or "Straight sides, clear glass.".
> Clear + shouldered I assume preferred ? Are there any other important GEC L63 qualifiers to look for?



Hey Chris - the gray glass shouldered shape are preferred.  If you see listings for clear glass shouldered shape, they are either rebranded STC/Brimar tubes, or they are later GEC with clear glass and a sort of squished T plate.  The earliest Marconi-Osram L63s are gray and shouldered like in the pic I posted, but the Brimar and later GECs are also very good tubes, can't go wrong with any of them.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> My favorite tube combo with the Verite



Can't wait to get the Verite Closed, will probably place an order with Zach in Jan or Feb!  Sounded amazing on the GOTL and the 300B.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> Can't wait to get the Verite Closed, will probably place an order with Zach in Jan or Feb!  Sounded amazing on the GOTL and the 300B.



I love them. Truly open sounding. It so happens that I only have listening conditions for closed headphones. Even if I could listen to open headphones, I don't know what would be as lovely as the VCs. I am sure the Verite Opens would do nicely, I'd love to have both, but need a cooling down period at the moment.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Can't wait to get the Verite Closed, will probably place an order with Zach in Jan or Feb!  Sounded amazing on the GOTL and the 300B.


 Be careful. You end up with a VC,a Lampi and a Glenn and suddenly you will find yourself looking for a new way to spend all of your cash,cuz you will be at the end of the game in this hobby,like me.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> I love them. Truly open sounding. It so happens that I only have listening conditions for closed headphones. Even if I could listen to open headphones, I don't know what would be as lovely as the VCs. I am sure the Verite Opens would do nicely, I'd love to have both, but need a cooling down period at the moment.



Really do sound open.  I spent quite a big of time with both of them at ZMFestivus, I would be happy with either one, but I loved the low-end on the VC, that visceral, head-shaking bass, I need it.  I don't think I could see myself owning both, frequency response is different, but the timbre obviously is very similar.  But hey, if you have the cash to burn, why not!



Monsterzero said:


> Be careful. You end up with a VC,a Lampi and a Glenn and suddenly you will find yourself looking for a new way to spend all of your cash,cuz you will be at the end of the game in this hobby,like me.



Something tells me this won't be a problem for me haha!  I seem to always find something else, I collect cumbersome and expensive hobbies, there is always room for one more.  Maybe I'll be one of those people who paints portraits on grains of rice, sounds like it might be up my alley.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I underestimated how much I would love the 47-step Goldpoint on the GOTL, just so satisfying making those microadjustments to the volume, and it fits the tube I use much better.  When I was using 6BX7 with the Alps pot, listening volume was around 9 o' clock, now it is around noon, lots more room to play with the volume.  With 6AS7G, can go all the way up to 2-3 o' clock on the volume comfortably now.

Another side-note, I am not looking forward to sending back the Amber 3, I am expecting to be pretty dissatisfied...I have adjusted to the warm, mellow, and spacious sound it brings with the GOTL.


----------



## whirlwind

Nice to see you are hearing the differences in Dac now


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 9, 2019)

Honestly, first time I have heard an unmistakable difference in a DAC.  In the past, it has been too close to call, with the Amber 3 it slaps you right in the face, a very warm and mellow, and satisfying slap  the DACs I have been comparing it to sound very bright and harsh by comparison.  I was skeptical, but I am glad I was wrong.  I only wish the chassis had a smaller footprint, but it doesn't sound like that is going to be an option.


----------



## Monsterzero (Nov 9, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Honestly, first time I have heard an unmistakable difference in a DAC.  In the past, it has been too close to call, with the Amber 3 it slaps you right in the face, a very warm and mellow, and satisfying slap  the DACs I have been comparing it to sound very bright and harsh by comparison.  I was skeptical, but I am glad I was wrong.  I only wish the chassis had a smaller footprint, but it doesn't sound like that is going to be an option.



Owning several R2R DACs for the last 6+years,the TRP is the brightest,most revealing DAC Ive owned,but in a great,enjoyable way.
Previous Lampi DACs were R2R as well,but they have switched to D/S. Had I known the TRP was D/S prior to auditioning it I probably wouldve declined the listen.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Owning several R2R DACs for the last 6+years,the TRP is the brightest,most revealing DAC Ive owned,but in a great,enjoyable way.
> Previous Lampi DACs were R2R as well,but they have switched to D/S. Had I known the TRP was D/S prior to auditioning it I probably wouldve declined the listen.



Interesting, it is all relative I guess, but the Amber 3 doesn't sound bright to me, quite the opposite, I wonder if the two DACs would sound that different if compared side-by-side.  But one persons bright could be another's dark/warm, wish I knew how much the tube roll affects the tonality of the Amber 3.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Interesting, it is all relative I guess, but the Amber 3 doesn't sound bright to me, quite the opposite, I wonder if the two DACs would sound that different if compared side-by-side.  But one persons bright could be another's dark/warm, wish I knew how much the tube roll affects the tonality of the Amber 3.


 I would ask @Gopher . I know that changing tubes in my TRP has a dramatic impact on the sound. I just changed rectifiers the other day,and it changed the sound quite a bit.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Another side-note, I am not looking forward to sending back the Amber 3, I am expecting to be pretty dissatisfied...I have adjusted to the warm, mellow, and spacious sound it brings with the GOTL.


Fred is an evil person - you fell into his "Amber 3 tour" trap!  
(we can hang out together inside Fred's trap...)


----------



## Monsterzero

For anyone who has the GEC KT66s or knows about them....

I was talking to Andy over at Vintage Tube Services and he has a matched pair with the original factory tape on the boxes saying theyre identical as well. Smoked glass,wants $560.00 for the pair,thing is theyre branded Genalex. He claims theyre made by Osram/Marconi. I asked for photos but he said he couldnt provide them until next week.

Is what he is saying correct,or is he blowing smoke up my rear?


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Fred is an evil person - you fell into his "Amber 3 tour" trap!
> (we can hang out together inside Fred's trap...)


 Dude! You havent seen the full extent of his evil-ness yet. He got me hook line and sinker with the TRP trap. Consider yourself lucky!


----------



## dminches

Monsterzero said:


> Owning several R2R DACs for the last 6+years,the TRP is the brightest,most revealing DAC Ive owned,but in a great,enjoyable way.
> Previous Lampi DACs were R2R as well,but they have switched to D/S. Had I known the TRP was D/S prior to auditioning it I probably wouldve declined the listen.



What is D/S?

I just had my Big 7 R2R upgraded to the engine 53 and it is a significant improvement.


----------



## Monsterzero

dminches said:


> What is D/S?
> 
> I just had my Big 7 R2R upgraded to the engine 53 and it is a significant improvement.


 D/S= delta sigma,which what most DACs are.


----------



## dminches

Monsterzero said:


> D/S= delta sigma,which what most DACs are.



According the web site they are using the engine 53 or something similar for TRP?  Is that D/S?


----------



## Monsterzero

dminches said:


> According the web site they are using the engine 53 or something similar for TRP?  Is that D/S?


 Yes. As I said,if I had known prior to taking in the loaner that it was a delta sigma I'd probably not even wanted to hear it. DS DACs in my experience are harsh,etched,digital sounding,whereas R2R DACs are typically warmer,more analogue sounding. 

I was shocked by what the TRP sounded like,being a D/S design...in a good way.


----------



## dminches

Monsterzero said:


> Yes. As I said,if I had known prior to taking in the loaner that it was a delta sigma I'd probably not even wanted to hear it. DS DACs in my experience are harsh,etched,digital sounding,whereas R2R DACs are typically warmer,more analogue sounding.
> 
> I was shocked by what the TRP sounded like,being a D/S design...in a good way.



Gotcha.

As I said, going from an R2R to the engine 53 in my Big 7 was a significant upgrade.


----------



## Monsterzero

dminches said:


> Gotcha.
> 
> As I said, going from an R2R to the engine 53 in my Big 7 was a significant upgrade.


 Yeah,I havent heard any of the R2R Lampis yet,but the TRP is stupid good. Can you comment on the KT66 question I posted above?


----------



## TonyNewman

Monsterzero said:


> ... DS DACs in my experience are harsh,etched,digital sounding,whereas R2R DACs are typically warmer,more analogue sounding...



+1. 

NOS (Non-oversampling) DACs are a subset of R2R. They tend to be even more relaxed and analogue sounding than the typical R2R DAC.If that sound signature is your thing, then I would recommend trying a NOS R2R DAC.


----------



## dminches

Monsterzero said:


> For anyone who has the GEC KT66s or knows about them....
> 
> I was talking to Andy over at Vintage Tube Services and he has a matched pair with the original factory tape on the boxes saying theyre identical as well. Smoked glass,wants $560.00 for the pair,thing is theyre branded Genalex. He claims theyre made by Osram/Marconi. I asked for photos but he said he couldnt provide them until next week.
> 
> Is what he is saying correct,or is he blowing smoke up my rear?



It is definitely possible that they were made by Osram/Marconi.  I have seen something similar for other tube types.  

$560 seems a little pricey.  I don't use KTXX in my Big 7 but I use KT88s in my Zesto BIA120 amp and I bought a quad of GEC for 8-900.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 9, 2019)

On the subject of NOS R2R, a few years ago, I was very interested in trying a DAC from MHDT Labs, NOS R2R with a 2C51 tube output buffer.  I am thinking of trying to demo one before making any final DAC decisions, I have read good things about the Pagoda.

Anyone heard one of these?  They seem to have something of a following.


----------



## leftside

$560 is a little high, but not too far off the going price for a pair of genuine NOS black base smoked glass KT66. 

KT88 are about $400+ each for genuine NOS - if they ever appear for sale. I too paid about $800 for a quad of KT88 for my Mac amps. They tested as NOS, but were lightly used. Most of the ones on eBay have been heavily used - the getter flashing (brown color, or lack of) gives them away. For example, here's a GEC/Genalex that you want to totally avoid as most of the side getter flashings have disappeared.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genalex-KT88-Circa-Mid-Century/193119393657


----------



## DecentLevi

leftside said:


> Yes, having tubes amplifying the analog signal rather than an opamp is what I think gives tube DAC's their distinctive signature. Lampizator is also doing some sort of magic with the conversion from ones and zeros to analog in their DAC engine.


Interesting, I would presume the tube buffer (if this is the right term) may contribute to the reason this D/S DAC is said to sound so analogue. Does anyone know which D/S chip it uses, for example Sabre 9038, etc.? Personally I've preferred Wolfson chips over Sabre. But I also prefer multibit, so far anyway.



GDuss said:


> I used to brew beer when I was a graduate student, then I moved to Portland, OR after I graduated.  This was in 2003.  My own personal brewing stopped when I got there, because I could easily get to more microbreweries than I could possibly deal with, with lots of good IPAs.  Too many beers, too little time (kind of like tubes).


Wow finally someone who's younger than me here. I graduated in '97. (H.S.)



L0rdGwyn said:


> Honestly, first time I have heard an unmistakable difference in a DAC.  In the past, it has been too close to call, with the Amber 3 it slaps you right in the face, a very warm and mellow, and satisfying slap  the DACs I have been comparing it to sound very bright and harsh by comparison.  I was skeptical, but I am glad I was wrong.  I only wish the chassis had a smaller footprint, but it doesn't sound like that is going to be an option.


But what if you're in the mood for a bright and detailed sound, or want to counter a dark recording? Is the Lamp 3 in general on the darker side of linear? For me, linearity is utmost importance otherwise it throws my whole system and track selection off balance.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

DecentLevi said:


> But what if you're in the mood for a bright and detailed sound, or want to counter a dark recording? Is the Lamp 3 in general on the darker side of linear? For me, linearity is utmost importance otherwise it throws my whole system and track selection off balance.



I would say the Amber 3 is warmer than the solid-state DACs I have been using, but not super gooey, overly warm, just warm of neutral, very smooth and non-fatiguing.  I'm certain I could make changes in the GOTL to brighten things up if I needed to, my secret weapon in this department is the Tung-Sol 7802.  Changing tubes in the DAC may also affect the perceived frequency response.



DecentLevi said:


> Wow finally someone who's younger than me here. I graduated in '97. (H.S.)



I'm pretty certain I'm the youngest regular here, but I will leave my age up to the imagination


----------



## mordy (Nov 9, 2019)

Hi leftside,
How does the lack of getter flashing affect the tube and the sound?
I thought that the getter flash was a one time event to remove oxygen and impurities from the gas in the tube in order to improve the vacuum.
The only way I know of how to  visually identify a heavily used tube is to look for anode boil off (deposits) inside the top of the glass on a cleartop tube - does not work if the top is covered by the getter flash.


----------



## Monsterzero

DecentLevi said:


> But what if you're in the mood for a bright and detailed sound, or want to counter a dark recording? Is the Lamp 3 in general on the darker side of linear? For me, linearity is utmost importance otherwise it throws my whole system and track selection off balance.



My DAC journey went from a Chord Mojo to a AGD R2R-11 to a EAD DSP 7000 Mk lll(legendary vintage R2R DAC) to a Vinshine R2R Ref 1(which is for sale BTW). 
The Vinshine was the airiest,most spacious,brightest of the lot,but in comparison to the TRP it sounds like a warm blanket.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> $560 is a little high, but not too far off the going price for a pair of genuine NOS black base smoked glass KT66.
> 
> KT88 are about $400+ each for genuine NOS - if they ever appear for sale. I too paid about $800 for a quad of KT88 for my Mac amps. They tested as NOS, but were lightly used. Most of the ones on eBay have been heavily used - the getter flashing (brown color, or lack of) gives them away. For example, here's a GEC/Genalex that you want to totally avoid as most of the side getter flashings have disappeared.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genalex-KT88-Circa-Mid-Century/193119393657



Apparently the KT66s in question still have the "matched pair" factory tape on the boxes and measure identical across the board,so it might be worth the extra $$$. I will get the date codes tomorrow.


----------



## GDuss

DecentLevi said:


> Wow finally someone who's younger than me here. I graduated in '97. (H.S.)



Sorry DL.  I graduated HS in '93, college in '97, and graduate school at the end of '02.  But I'm younger than you in Head-Fi years .


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Hi leftside,
> How does the lack of getter flashing affect the tube and the sound?
> I thought that the getter flash was a one time event to remove oxygen and impurities from the gas in the tube in order to improve the vacuum.
> The only way I know of how to  visually identify a heavily used tube is to look for anode boil off (deposits) inside the top of the glass on a cleartop tube - does not work if the top is covered by the getter flash.


With the KT88, you can spot the less well used ones if they have large/shiny silver getter flashings on the sides. The earlier KT88 just have a top getter, so this doesn't apply here. The more these tubes are used, the getter flashing starts to shrink and go brown. Might be particular to the KT88 - not sure.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Those of us on a budget...
Have a 'Muse' DAC that is NOS and uses a quad of 1543 DAC chips.  Sounds really nice, very natural, laid back / different from the edgy and aggressive DAC's sound spoken about here....

That goes into an ECC88 Tube buffer and on to amplification...

It is very satisfactory, and I wonder how it would compare to some of the tube buffer/dacs, mentioned here...?


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> For anyone who has the GEC KT66s or knows about them....
> 
> I was talking to Andy over at Vintage Tube Services and he has a matched pair with the original factory tape on the boxes saying theyre identical as well. Smoked glass,wants $560.00 for the pair,thing is theyre branded Genalex. He claims theyre made by Osram/Marconi. I asked for photos but he said he couldnt provide them until next week.
> 
> Is what he is saying correct,or is he blowing smoke up my rear?



"Genalex" was the brand GEC used on tubes destined for the US market. Given the fact that GE was a major manufacturer in the US, it would have been very confusing to have both GE and GEC labeled tubes in the US marketplace. So yes, what he is saying is correct. They were made by Osram/Marconi to be sold in the US. I can't say why GEC chose to create a new brand rather than use Marconi or Osram but again it was all about marketing.


----------



## Zachik

JazzVinyl said:


> It is very satisfactory, and I wonder how it would compare to some of the tube buffer/dacs, mentioned here...?


Similar curiosity just cost me a lot of money... ignorance is a bliss


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 10, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> For anyone who has the GEC KT66s or knows about them....
> 
> I was talking to Andy over at Vintage Tube Services and he has a matched pair with the original factory tape on the boxes saying theyre identical as well. Smoked glass,wants $560.00 for the pair,thing is theyre branded Genalex. He claims theyre made by Osram/Marconi. I asked for photos but he said he couldnt provide them until next week.
> 
> Is what he is saying correct,or is he blowing smoke up my rear?




I got this pair of matched military smoked glass NOS tubes from Langrex $446 shipped and including taxes...... from Langrex thru e-bay.




Once you see the pictures you will know more MZ... they are expensive tubes and the black base tubes seem to be the oldest tubes and more sought after...bring a higher price.
I have no idea about the difference in the sound...matter of fact I would love to know myself.

The tubes that I got from Langrex sound killer...very detailed and big sound.
There are also the reissue tubes. This are a huge amount cheaper.


Here is a code chart for the GEC KT66....this only goes back to 1945.
Anything before someone else will need to chime in.
Maybe @gibosi  or @leftside


----------



## whirlwind

This could be of some help also.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-Tube-M...372670?hash=item3af2b9e6be:g:JzAAAOSwwGRZzV3Y


----------



## mordy

You know, when you combine different tubes the sound may be better than the individual sound of each tube. Ever wonder how it works? Here is an example of the math:




Which leads to us to today's experiment - a pair of 6C5G/6J5G tubes. These are beautiful little Sylvania ST type tubes and are the oldest ones I have: A 1936 Zenith 6C5G with a mesh Faraday cage around the plate and a 1937 Philco 6J5G.



These were bought separately and the total cost was less than $14 shipped. A professional high priced seller might easily charge 10 times more:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Quad-Z...293534?hash=item2ad8e1a75e:g:9hcAAOSwyhVdxPE-
Just plugged them in for a photo-op; listening session starting now.
Oldies but goodies - just think about it; the tubes are 82 and 83 years old and work just fine.......
What is the difference in sound between 6C5 and 6J5? Don't know.....


----------



## gibosi (Nov 10, 2019)

It seems to me that some of you might now be ready to try tubes that are about 90 years old, No 27's with mesh plates.


----------



## mordy

Hi gibosi,
Date codes B1 and M2 - February 1931 and December 1932?
My Sylvanias are very quiet.
If you have a pair of TS 6J5 metal I would like to know how they compare to the 27 tubes.
How do you arrange the voltage to 2.5V?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Oh, no love for 80+ year old mesh plate tubes then?


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Oldies but goodies - just think about it; the tubes are 82 and 83 years old and work just fine.......



These tubes graduated high school in like 1954!!!

Thanks mordy (and others) for continuing to point out cheap tubes that sound great.


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 10, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> I got this pair of matched military smoked glass NOS tubes from Langrex $446 shipped and including taxes...... from Langrex thru e-bay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice find on those smoked glass KG66's Whirlwind. I've been looking for a good source for a while. Tried bidding on a few pairs but even last minute sniping failed me so I only do "buy it now" from now on. It was the last 15 seconds of the listing and was the darndest thing, the numbers disappeared from the box where you enter your bid after I typed them, making it impossible for me to submit a bid even if it was higher. Anyone else experienced something like that?!

I've seen your GEC code chart but still can't figure out when was yours made? I've also seen the KB/Z code on several clear glass GEC KT66's so that would be good to know...


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 10, 2019)

mordy said:


> Which leads to us to today's experiment - a pair of 6C5G/6J5G tubes. These are beautiful little Sylvania ST type tubes and are the oldest ones I have: A 1936 Zenith 6C5G with a mesh Faraday cage around the plate and a 1937 Philco 6J5G.
> 
> These were bought separately and the total cost was less than $14 shipped. A professional high priced seller might easily charge 10 times more:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Quad-Z...293534?hash=item2ad8e1a75e:g:9hcAAOSwyhVdxPE-
> ...



Gotta love the mesh shield on the 6C6G...!!  Awesome cool looking!  Do these sound better than the 12J5GT's?


I am doing the "worlds best DAC"...er...I mean...the "no DAC"!!

The Vinyl spinning machine, draggin' the old gemstone through plastic, is playing Steve Tibbetts' 1984 LP "Safe Journey" via the GOTL and pair of $2 RCA 6C5's and a six pack of 6BL7's.



The metal 6C5 run quite warm and take a good long time to warm all the way up. Once warm, they sound very nice, indeed!
These drivers, these powers and vinyl...are all made for each other.


Cheers, all!!


----------



## GDuss

DecentLevi said:


> It was the last 15 seconds of the listing and was the darndest thing, the numbers disappeared from the box where you enter your bid after I typed them, making it impossible for me to submit a bid even if it was higher. Anyone else experienced something like that?!



I've had this happen also.  You type in the number you want to bid, and before you can hit enter, the number you typed disappears.  I had to just type and hit enter super fast before the number disappeared.  If you can manage to do it quickly enough, the bid will get entered.  If you're too slow, it disappears.  But it's quite difficult to be fast enough.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> Date codes B1 and M2 - February 1931 and December 1932?
> My Sylvanias are very quiet.
> If you have a pair of TS 6J5 metal I would like to know how they compare to the 27 tubes.
> How do you arrange the voltage to 2.5V?



Since I have decided to watch the 6C5 and 6J5 bandwagon procession from the sidelines, I can't say how they might compare....


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Since I have decided to watch the 6C5 and 6J5 bandwagon procession from the sidelines, I can't say how they might compare....


I know, I fight the tube overload every day!
What about my guesses as to the dating?


----------



## JazzVinyl

It's 'Metal Driver' Sunday:


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I know, I fight the tube overload every day!
> What about my guesses as to the dating?



Yes the pair of Philco No 27 were manufactured in 1931 and 1932.


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> It's 'Metal Driver' Sunday:



Nice photo.  But I'm guessing you're not also listening to metal.  That would violate your Head-Fi handle .  MetalVinyl just doesn't sound the same.

Is that 4 Syl 6080s?


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> Nice photo.  But I'm guessing you're not also listening to metal.  That would violate your Head-Fi handle .  MetalVinyl just doesn't sound the same.
> 
> Is that 4 Syl 6080s?



Haha...no sir, me and the music genre of 'metal' are not friends 

Single pair of 6080's behind the blue led fan...I run the fan when I use 6080's as they run so hot.  It is a 12v fan...but I run it at 6 volts, as it is a 'hurricane' at 12v.

Still spinning Steve Tibbetts' LP's that I bought (used) today.  This one is "Northern Song":


----------



## whirlwind

DecentLevi said:


> Nice find on those smoked glass KG66's Whirlwind. I've been looking for a good source for a while. Tried bidding on a few pairs but even last minute sniping failed me so I only do "buy it now" from now on. It was the last 15 seconds of the listing and was the darndest thing, the numbers disappeared from the box where you enter your bid after I typed them, making it impossible for me to submit a bid even if it was higher. Anyone else experienced something like that?!
> 
> I've seen your GEC code chart but still can't figure out when was yours made? I've also seen the KB/Z code on several clear glass GEC KT66's so that would be good to know...




The way I read the chart , it looks like Feb,. of 1954 from Hammersmith factory.


----------



## chrisdrop

whirlwind said:


> The way I read the chart , it looks like Feb,. of 1954 from Hammersmith factory.


There she is: http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/Factory - UK - Hammersmith.htm


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> It seems to me that some of you might now be ready to try tubes that are about 90 years old, No 27's with mesh plates.



It's the "most are noisy" problem that keeps me from taking the plunge.


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> There she is: http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/Factory - UK - Hammersmith.htm



A picture from Chris' link...how old do these "frosting the bulbs" workers look



!!!


----------



## Phantaminum

JazzVinyl said:


> Haha...no sir, me and the music genre of 'metal' are not friends
> 
> Single pair of 6080's behind the blue led fan...I run the fan when I use 6080's as they run so hot.  It is a 12v fan...but I run it at 6 volts, as it is a 'hurricane' at 12v.
> 
> Still spinning Steve Tibbetts' LP's that I bought (used) today.  This one is "Northern Song":



Any noise being picked up from the fan? I still find myself of putting my iPhone on the complete opposite side of the desk as my GOTL would always picked up noise from it. I could imagine those people who had metal fillings being able to pick up radio stations and hear it.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> There she is: http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/Factory - UK - Hammersmith.htm



This was an interesting read, thanks for posting.  And the Factory Movies are great, especially "Lamp Delivery by Horse".  Not terribly different than how some delivery services operate today .


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> It's the "most are noisy" problem that keeps me from taking the plunge.



Yes they can be noisy. But since you have a Lundhal transformer it is likely that they would be quieter in your amp than mine. Given that the Type 27 was the first widely marketed indirectly heated cathode triode, the technology was still pretty primitive. But if you can find a quiet pair, they are among the best drivers ever made.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> This was an interesting read, thanks for posting.  And the Factory Movies are great, especially "Lamp Delivery by Horse".  Not terribly different than how some delivery services operate today .



Those delivery tricycles at the end of the clip remind me of my childhood in the early 50's - grocery stores used such tricycles for deliveries but with an open bed.
My teachers used to say about a student who had difficulty keeping up in class: If you don't have it in your head, you have it in your legs!


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I got this pair of matched military smoked glass NOS tubes from Langrex $446 shipped and including taxes...... from Langrex thru e-bay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Got the date code on those KT66

HJ 6.

Is that Sept,1952?


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Got the date code on those KT66
> 
> HJ 6.
> 
> Is that Sept,1952?




I am not sure, I thought they were suppose to be all letters, not sure where the 6 comes in.
The last letter is suppose to be what factory made them.
Maybe the person who has them for sale would know ?

I can see where you would get Sept. 1952 from the first couple of letters.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> I am not sure, I thought they were suppose to be all letters, not sure where the 6 comes in.
> The last letter is suppose to be what factory made them.
> Maybe the person who has them for sale would know ?
> 
> I can see where you would get Sept. 1952 from the first couple of letters.



It appears that Sept 52 is the correct date code based on the chart - would not worry about the extra number. I see extra numbers and letters many times on tubes, but even though for sure they have meaning it is something else than the date code.
Here are some examples: 
Two Philco 6J5 metal tubes. Both of them have the numbers 1063 - one horizontal and one vertical.
One tube says 1063    Don't know what these numbers represent
                         6226   Don't know what these numbers represent
                          144    This may be week 44 (Nov) 1951
The next tube:  1
                         0              and the letters DBJ. My guess is February 1954 Factory J
                         6
                         3

I have four Tung Sol metal 6J5 tubes: 322403-3; 322KM3, 322DW3 and 322MH3.
                        322 is the Tung Sol EIA code; the last number could be factory 3.
                        403 could be third week (Jan) 1944.
                        Re KM, DW and MH - no idea; have never come across any date code chart for Tung Sol. Anybody?

But wait - the three 6J5 tubes with the two letter date codes have 6J5 engraved on the lower part of the metal can, followed by  the letters             1H, K3 and V3. (The tube with 403-3 markings only has 6J5 engraved)
Let's guess that 1 and 3 represent the years 1951 and 1953. What about H, K and V?
If you assign a month to each letter of the alphabet (and skip I because it looks like the number 1 (one) you end up with a sequence A-M where A is January and M December.
Now start over the alphabet from the letters N-Z (skip W) and you again have 12 letters that can symbolize the months Jan-Dec.
1H could be August 1951 or  KM
K3 could be October 1953 or DW
V3 could be September 1953 or MH

Is all this speculation and date codes pulled from thin air?
Let me know what you think.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> It appears that Sept 52 is the correct date code based on the chart - would not worry about the extra number. I see extra numbers and letters many times on tubes, but even though for sure they have meaning it is something else than the date code.
> Here are some examples:
> Two Philco 6J5 metal tubes. Both of them have the numbers 1063 - one horizontal and one vertical.
> One tube says 1063    Don't know what these numbers represent
> ...



Was that your 5,000th post?  Nicely done. I have nothing else to add to this.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> Was that your 5,000th post?  Nicely done. I have nothing else to add to this.


Had no idea that I had so many posts....


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> It appears that Sept 52 is the correct date code based on the chart - would not worry about the extra number. I see extra numbers and letters many times on tubes, but even though for sure they have meaning it is something else than the date code.
> Here are some examples:
> Two Philco 6J5 metal tubes. Both of them have the numbers 1063 - one horizontal and one vertical.
> One tube says 1063    Don't know what these numbers represent
> ...




I am guessing that those KT66 tubes is from 1952..just as @Monsterzero has suggested, and maybe the 6 is the number maybe suggesting what factory.
However there are many more people here that know the codes much better than myself.

I would also say you may very well be right on the 6J5 tubes....but I honestly have no idea to be perfectly honest.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 12, 2019)

Equipment failure at work has giving me the morning off....snowing outside.....I am just going to kick back and enjoy the morning with some Robin Trower and Savoy Brown






@L0rdGwyn may have a half a foot a snow !

Keep that crap up north


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Equipment failure at work has giving me the morning off....snowing outside.....I am just going to kick back and enjoy the morning with some Robin Trower
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's still snowing...but I have the day off!  So I will be joining you in your snow day jam session


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 12, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> It's still snowing...but I have the day off!  So I will be joining you in your snow day jam session




The more the merrier for the snow day jam.  Looks like you may end up with a few inches.
You will need to get the shovel out  

Have enjoyed these today so far.





Thanks @2359glenn for making all of this great gear.
You have made many people very happy with some killer gear.

The amps sound wonderful with the cheapest tubes that you can find for OTL and deals are still to be had on EL3N.
Tubes end up draining my wallet.....but it is my own doing  
Thing is whenever I listen to the amp, I feel they are worth every penny.


----------



## GDuss

whirlwind said:


> The more the merrier for the snow day jam.  Looks like you may end up with a few inches.
> You will need to get the shovel out
> 
> Have enjoyed these today so far.
> ...



I just saw Tedeschi Trucks band live, 2 nights last week (Thursday and Friday).  Derek's tone and Susan's voice are so fun to listen to, certainly in person, but live recordings on the GOTL as well.


----------



## whirlwind

GDuss said:


> I just saw Tedeschi Trucks band live, 2 nights last week (Thursday and Friday).  Derek's tone and Susan's voice are so fun to listen to, certainly in person, but live recordings on the GOTL as well.




That sounds like a couple of wonderful nights.

Were they the same set-list ?


----------



## GDuss

whirlwind said:


> That sounds like a couple of wonderful nights.
> 
> Were they the same set-list ?



Different sets each night.  I highly recommend checking them out if they play near you.

I had heard previously that Derek doesn't use any pedals or devices to alter his sound, he plugs his guitar straight into the amp so his tone is whatever the guitar/amp are capable of producing.  I wasn't sure that was true, but sure enough, he didn't use any pedals.  At least he doesn't have to deal with getting out of control buying too many pedals .


----------



## whirlwind

GDuss said:


> Different sets each night.  I highly recommend checking them out if they play near you.
> 
> I had heard previously that Derek doesn't use any pedals or devices to alter his sound, he plugs his guitar straight into the amp so his tone is whatever the guitar/amp are capable of producing.  I wasn't sure that was true, but sure enough, he didn't use any pedals.  At least he doesn't have to deal with getting out of control buying too many pedals .




I would love to catch them live...that is great stuff.  Derek plays a killer slide!

I have saw Joe Bonamassa play a couple of times, just plugging into those old 1950's tweed amps that he collects.
It is indeed very cool.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 12, 2019)

Slowly but surely, I am building a collection for my tube-rectified MH4 SET amp.

To add to my small collection of MH4 tubes, I now have a GEC U18/20, Mullard NU12, and a pair of French Neotron 6L6G power tubes.  NOS Fivre 5Z3 is in the mail.

It's a start...best part about these B4/B5 tubes, you can stand them up right on their pins for pictures  for the octal tubes, it is a balancing act.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Slowly but surely, I am building a collection for my tube-rectified MH4 SET amp.
> 
> To add to my small collection of MH4 tubes, I now have a GEC U18/20, Mullard NU12, and a pair of French Neotron 6L6G power tubes.  NOS Fivre 5Z3 is in the mail.
> 
> It's a start...best part about these B4/B5 tubes, you can stand them up right on their pins for pictures  for the octal tubes, it is a balancing act.



I see that you guys got snow just had sleet here now cold cold I hate it.

What are you going to do with the B4 base 4 volt tubes?  Two rectifier sockets? Or use a 3DG4 to U18/20 adapter?
Or have only B4/B5 sockets on the amp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 12, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> I see that you guys got snow just had sleet here now cold cold I hate it.
> 
> What are you going to do with the B4 base 4 volt tubes?  Two rectifier sockets? Or use a 3DG4 to U18/20 adapter?
> Or have only B4/B5 sockets on the amp.



Yeah, winter is here early.  I live on the east side of Cleveland, east of the lake, so we get lake-effect snow, probably got 6 or 7 inches.  I read we haven't gotten this much snow this early in the year since 1996.

What I want to do Glenn is use that UX4-B4 socket from Yamamoto, so I will use 4V B4 rectifiers mostly, but can also use 5V 5Z3 rectifiers (maybe 80 too), so just one socket.  I think I sent you some pics a while back.  Then B5 sockets for the drivers, octal sockets for the powers.

I am thinking I should get one of these soon just in case they decide to stop making them.


----------



## 2359glenn (Nov 12, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yeah, winter is here early.  I live on the east side of Cleveland, east of the lake, so we get lake-effect snow, probably got 6 or 7 inches.  I read we haven't gotten this much snow this early in the year since 1996.
> 
> What I want to do Glenn is use that UX4-B4 socket from Yamamoto, so I will use 4V B4 rectifiers mostly, but can also use 5V 5Z3 rectifiers (maybe 80 too), so just one socket.  I think I sent you some pics a while back.  Then B5 sockets for the drivers, octal sockets for the powers.
> 
> I am thinking I should get one of these soon just in case they decide to stop making them.



When we lived in up state New York we would get buried with lake effect snow 

Yes you showed these to me.  It will look much better then a empty socket.
I have a 4 pin socket with a 5Z3 but plan on going to a octal and use a GZ37.


----------



## Monsterzero

My Aurender N100H arrived today. Huge difference in SQ. Its going to take me all of the day and most of the night to get over 2TB of music transferred from comp to server(PITA),but its worth it.
If anyone is still using a computer as a source and has been thinking about a server,do it. Def a big improvement.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> My Aurender N100H arrived today. Huge difference in SQ. Its going to take me all of the day and most of the night to get over 2TB of music transferred from comp to server(PITA),but its worth it.
> If anyone is still using a computer as a source and has been thinking about a server,do it. Def a big improvement.


I've looked at those, but went the custom PC server route instead (with parts chosen specifically for low noise and audio playback over USB). The Aurender certainly looks nicer than a PC and is plug and play. In the past I compared multiple different types of transports (different CD players used as transports/bypassing their internal DAC), but could never tell any difference between them when connected to the same external DAC. But things change... I'll see if I can borrow an Aurender at some point. I always like to play with new tech anyway.


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> It's still snowing...but I have the day off!  So I will be joining you in your snow day jam session


It's been snowing every 3 or 4 days here like clockwork since the end of September.  Gonna be one of _those _winters.


----------



## Monsterzero

Xcalibur255 said:


> It's been snowing every 3 or 4 days here like clockwork since the end of September.  Gonna be one of _those _winters.


 No snow here yet in Lawn Guy Land,but its coming. 
Southern Arizona 2022 or bust!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hats off to an Old School fave of mine...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> No snow here yet in Lawn Guy Land,but its coming.
> Southern Arizona 2022 or bust!



Sounds better than buggy/humid Florida!


----------



## mordy

No place is perfect. I have family in Phoenix AZ and they tell me that anybody who can leaves during July-August. Too hot with temperatures around 110F.
Maybe a snowbird set-up is ideal - winters in FL or AZ and summers in more temperate climates.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Equipment failure at work has giving me the morning off....snowing outside.....I am just going to kick back and enjoy the morning with some Robin Trower and Savoy Brown



Savoy Brown!! What did you listen to?  Just played some Trower this last weekend....both so good  

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> No place is perfect. I have family in Phoenix AZ and they tell me that anybody who can leaves during July-August. Too hot with temperatures around 110F.
> Maybe a snowbird set-up is ideal - winters in FL or AZ and summers in more temperate climates.....



Yep, agree about the incredible heat in summers.  Same with FL..

But, I happen to like Snow...fireplace and some warm tubes  

.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Sounds better than buggy/humid Florida!


 Lived in Port St. Lucie in the spring/summer of 91.
Hot,yes. Humid,yes. Best looking girls in the states,yes. I actually loved the river life there,but im too old to be evacuating every other year for some impending hurricane of biblical proportion. Arizona has none of that,so thats where im going.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> It's been snowing every 3 or 4 days here like clockwork since the end of September.  Gonna be one of _those _winters.



My feeling is if its gonna be cold, might as well have snow!  I am not a fan of cold and rainy, or cold and sleety, or just cold and cloudy.  I like to go hiking when it is snowy out, just gotta gear up for it.  I also take out my telescope in the winter and freeze my a** off, but you get some very clear nights, great for stargazing.  When you live in one of the cloudiest cities in the country, gotta take what you can get.


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> It's been snowing every 3 or 4 days here like clockwork since the end of September.  Gonna be one of _those _winters.


Send some out West! Our mountains are bare (so far).



L0rdGwyn said:


> My feeling is if its gonna be cold, might as well have snow!  I am not a fan of cold and rainy, or cold and sleety, or just cold and cloudy.  I like to go hiking when it is snowy out, just gotta gear up for it.  I also take out my telescope in the winter and freeze my a** off, but you get some very clear nights, great for stargazing.  When you live in one of the cloudiest cities in the country, gotta take what you can get.


You wouldn't like Vancouver in the winter then. I don't know how people survive the grey/cold/rainy winters in the city without at least having a winter sport and head to the mountains to do something like snow shoeing. Luckily the mountains are very close. 

As I get older, the more I'm liking the snowbird idea. Perhaps I'll join @Monsterzero in Arizona November-April  Wonder if I can get the 300B amp on the plane as hand luggage...


----------



## mordy

Is there a weight limit on carry on bags?
A. While *there* is no *weight limit on carry on bags*, all airlines have a size *limit* for *bags* taken into the cabin. In general, you're allowed to *carry* on one *bag* measuring no more than 22 inches long by 14 inches wide by 9 inches tall, plus one small "personal item" such as a pocketbook or laptop case.
Flying international there may be weight limits as well - most airlines seem to allow 22 lbs.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Is there a weight limit on carry on bags?
> A. While *there* is no *weight limit on carry on bags*, all airlines have a size *limit* for *bags* taken into the cabin. In general, you're allowed to *carry* on one *bag* measuring no more than 22 inches long by 14 inches wide by 9 inches tall, plus one small "personal item" such as a pocketbook or laptop case.
> Flying international there may be weight limits as well - most airlines seem to allow 22 lbs.


Maybe if I remove the tall 300B tubes and put them in my pockets, the amp might just squeeze into the overhead bin


----------



## mordy (Nov 12, 2019)

I was thinking of putting the tubes into the "small personal item" allowed....lol
And maybe better to put the amp under the seat in front of you....
Sounds familiar? "Please be careful when opening the overhead bins since items may have shifted during flight."


----------



## mordy

Which reminds me of a story (supposedly true) of a business man who finds his first class seat occupied by a women.
"Excuse me madam, this is my seat!"
"But I was first!"

Okay. maybe not such a good joke - good night!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> Maybe if I remove the tall 300B tubes and put them in my pockets, the amp might just squeeze into the overhead bin



Just imagine the look on the TSA X-ray technicians face when they see the 300B going through their scanner.  Lots of wires, totally safe, definitely not a bomb...LOL.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> If anyone is still using a computer as a source and has been thinking about a server,do it. Def a big improvement.


I was looking at that same server, a year or so ago, before deciding to build my own fanless PC... 
@Monsterzero - do you plan on a video review of the new toy at some point?  If so - I will be looking forward!  And do not forget to discuss the transfer process from your old PC to the new Aurender. That would be very important!!


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> I was looking at that same server, a year or so ago, before deciding to build my own fanless PC...
> @Monsterzero - do you plan on a video review of the new toy at some point?  If so - I will be looking forward!  And do not forget to discuss the transfer process from your old PC to the new Aurender. That would be very important!!


 Perhaps I may do a "review" but kinda like my TRP,I have nothing comparable to bounce it off of.

It sounds quite good,but accessing the internal hard drive is driving me insane. I bought it used,and the previous owner has 1.5 TB of music that I personally dont care for,but in order to remove the offending files I need to access it as a drive via my computer,and for the life of me my computer refuses to allow me access. Keeps saying I dont have permission.
Ive been at it for nearly 6 hours,Googling various searches pertaining to admin passwords,etc...nada.
Fred used to own this model. I might hit him up to lend me a hand. For the time being im playing files off of an attached hard drive,but I want access to the internal drive dammit.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Savoy Brown!! What did you listen to?  Just played some Trower this last weekend....both so good
> 
> .



The Devil To Pay





mordy said:


> No place is perfect. I have family in Phoenix AZ and they tell me that anybody who can leaves during July-August. Too hot with temperatures around 110F.
> Maybe a snowbird set-up is ideal - winters in FL or AZ and summers in more temperate climates.....



When the wife and I retire, this is our plan.
We will live in Ohio until Thanksgiving....then leave and come back in March.


----------



## dminches

Monsterzero said:


> My Aurender N100H arrived today. Huge difference in SQ. Its going to take me all of the day and most of the night to get over 2TB of music transferred from comp to server(PITA),but its worth it.
> If anyone is still using a computer as a source and has been thinking about a server,do it. Def a big improvement.



Well, it depends on what type of computer.  If it is a general purpose computer or a mini Mac I would agree with your statement.  

I have a custom built, Xeon-based fanless computer which sounds better than any of the Aurender products (I think).  I have owned all of them including a W20.  Most of the people on this list can probably build one with a little assistance.  I am running Roon server on it and stream the music to a Sonore ultraRendu endpoint.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> The Devil To Pay



Savoy Brown just released "City Night".  I don't have "Devil to Pay" - somehow missed that one.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Savoy Brown just released "City Night".  I don't have "Devil to Pay" - somehow missed that one.




I have the new release.  Devil To Pay is from 2015


----------



## mordy (Nov 13, 2019)

Quiet tonight....
Here is a question somebody asked me: If you have unplugged your headphones/speakers, is there anything wrong in changing tubes without shutting down your amp?
I know that it can be done (taking care that you don't burn your fingers), but can it cause harm to your amp?

What do you think?

PS: I don't do this myself - I wait until the capacitors discharge (no sound) and then change the tubes.
It also appears to me that if you switch to a different voltage for the driver tubes without shutting off the amp first, the amp may not sense the voltage change and may damage the tube if you go from say 12V to 6V.


----------



## Silent One

Greetings All!

Anyone see our resident audio guru extraordinaire round here? Thinking of adding a lil” iron as a December treat. Perhaps, a tube phono preamp mm. Anyone lately get a stand alone phono pre from the studio?


----------



## DecentLevi

Silent One said:


> Greetings All!
> 
> Anyone see our resident audio guru extraordinaire round here? Thinking of adding a lil” iron as a December treat. Perhaps, a tube phono preamp mm. Anyone lately get a stand alone phono pre from the studio?



Sorry I haven't been showing my face around here much lately 






Or were you waiting until then for someone?


----------



## UntilThen

It's home. All the way from New York. Thanks Monster. You put it in such a big box, I thought it's an early Christmas present.

It's like it never left ! Will try it in the GOTL tonight but I have 3....


----------



## UsoppNoKami

My GEC drivers just arrived too


----------



## UntilThen

Ken Jie, that’s must cost a pretty penny.


----------



## UntilThen

I never thought that I would miss the GEC 6as7g but I did. So out comes the 6 x 6bx7gt and in goes a pair of GEC 6as7g into GOTL. Didn't bother to switch the driver which happen to be a Tung Sol 12SL7GT black glass round pates. Beautiful, exquisite sound. Volume is at 2pm !!! for the same loudness as 6 x 6bx7gt but there is a consolation. This pair of GEC 6as7g is ultra silent between songs at 2pm on the volume dial. 

I'm so done with rolling tubes but I do love Verite with GOTL .... with just about any tube combinations. The tube glow from these GECs is just simply amazing. 

Then I switch to this setup again and I'm smiling now. 

GEC B36, GEC 6080 + GEC 6as7g. Not partial to using the same brand but I'm liking this combination. GEC has that unique lovely tone.


----------



## 2359glenn

UsoppNoKami said:


> My GEC drivers just arrived too



You will like these tubes!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Quiet tonight....
> Here is a question somebody asked me: If you have unplugged your headphones/speakers, is there anything wrong in changing tubes without shutting down your amp?
> I know that it can be done (taking care that you don't burn your fingers), but can it cause harm to your amp?
> 
> ...



Hello Mordy,

I have "hot swapped" many times...headphones unplugged of course.  Never had a problem.


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> I was looking at that same server, a year or so ago, before deciding to build my own fanless PC...
> @Monsterzero - do you plan on a video review of the new toy at some point?  If so - I will be looking forward!  And do not forget to discuss the transfer process from your old PC to the new Aurender. That would be very important!!



Update: I finally got access to the hard drive of the Aurender and wiped away all the files the previous owner had on there.
Uplaoading nearly 2 TB of files took approx 8 hours. After all files were in there I began sorting into playlists. Worked on that from midnight til about 4am. Got all the way to "Arabs in Aspics" of my artists(sorted alphabetically). Im guessing this process will take several more days before im done.

T.E.D.I.O.U.S



UntilThen said:


> It's home. All the way from New York. Thanks Monster. You put it in such a big box, I thought it's an early Christmas present.
> 
> It's like it never left ! Will try it in the GOTL tonight but I have 3....



Glad they arrived safely Matt!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UsoppNoKami said:


> My GEC drivers just arrived too



Great tubes, enjoy. A filament burned out in one of mine the other day  glad to have backups, next man up!


----------



## cdanguyen08

Picked up my first ZMF headphone. Really excited to hear how it pairs with G3LEN. Few more months patiently waiting


----------



## L0rdGwyn

cdanguyen08 said:


> Picked up my first ZMF headphone. Really excited to hear how it pairs with G3LEN. Few more months patiently waiting



Fantastic, which one did you get, C?


----------



## cdanguyen08

L0rdGwyn said:


> Fantastic, which one did you get, C?



I snagged an Aeolus on the classifieds! Really love the sound signature. Now really curious about other ZMF headphones


----------



## L0rdGwyn

cdanguyen08 said:


> I snagged an Aeolus on the classifieds! Really love the sound signature. Now really curious about other ZMF headphones



That's awesome, I've heard the Aeolus and owned the Atticus, great sounding headphone.  I keep the HD650 around, but I'm pretty much all ZMF from here on out, Zach is a great guy and I get so much enjoyment from his headphones, definitely try to get some ears on his other models.


----------



## chrisdrop

I think several Glenn amp owners are on ZMFs; mostly Verite? 
I am listening now on Verite closed with much enthusiasm!
I also have an Eikon, which I have at my office and it dawns on me ... I have yet to hear on the Glenn amp ... I will bring home this weekend!
I agree with @L0rdGwyn - ZMF from here on out.


----------



## cdanguyen08 (Nov 14, 2019)

chrisdrop said:


> I think several Glenn amp owners are on ZMFs; mostly Verite?
> I am listening now on Verite closed with much enthusiasm!
> I also have an Eikon, which I have at my office and it dawns on me ... I have yet to hear on the Glenn amp ... I will bring home this weekend!
> I agree with @L0rdGwyn - ZMF from here on out.



definitely gonna keep my HD800s but think I'm gonna be in the same boat as yall now that I've gotten a taste of ZMF


----------



## TonyNewman

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Mordy,
> I have "hot swapped" many times...headphones unplugged of course.  Never had a problem.



I never, ever "hot swap". Worst I have ever done is "warm swap" after a few minutes of cool down. The reasoning is that the internal components of the tube are superheated in operation and therefore much more fragile than when cold. I just don't want to risk breaking tubes due to impatience - and given the cost of many tubes my wallet commands me to do it that way. YMMV.


----------



## mordy

TonyNewman said:


> I never, ever "hot swap". Worst I have ever done is "warm swap" after a few minutes of cool down. The reasoning is that the internal components of the tube are superheated in operation and therefore much more fragile than when cold. I just don't want to risk breaking tubes due to impatience - and given the cost of many tubes my wallet commands me to do it that way. YMMV.


Interesting - I mainly swap out driver tubes. If I change 2.5A power tubes I have to wait for the tubes to cool down to avoid risking burning my fingers. However, with my fan on the driver tubes do not get hot, and most of the time I can touch them in operation without any problems.
Just took readings now - the highest reading for the power tubes 125C and the driver tubes 33C. It is interesting to me that date matched tubes rarely read the identical temperatures - there is always a little variation.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 14, 2019)

TonyNewman said:


> I never, ever "hot swap". Worst I have ever done is "warm swap" after a few minutes of cool down. The reasoning is that the internal components of the tube are superheated in operation and therefore much more fragile than when cold. I just don't want to risk breaking tubes due to impatience - and given the cost of many tubes my wallet commands me to do it that way. YMMV.



All my tubes are cheap-o's - but never had a problem, Tony.
I do primarily only swap driver tubes as well.  I can certainly understand the caution with 300B's or any other tube where serious money was spent to obtain them.

Cheers


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 15, 2019)

Meanwhile on the Euforia thread we (including myself) are finally discovering the prowess of the 6L6 series. The 7581A being the same class of tubes, we've moved on to the KT series including 66, then discovered the KT88 to be even more superior. One user even tried KT150 on the Euforia which he thinks raises the bar even more. Now the really sacred EL39 is even starting to get dethroned in the wake of the Russian reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT88.

Is there anyone here that has compared or has knowledge of the sonic performance of Genalex Gold Lion KT66 or KT88 vs. the original holy grail GEC/Osram/Marconi KT66/KT88 clear glass or  smoked glass... or for that matter vs. any of the other modern Tung-Sol or JJ reissues? They certainly are adorably beautiful and use high materials even including _Gold grid wire; carbonised screen grids; tri-alloy clad plate structure._
(I'm looking for expertise beyond that Audiogon article that was already posted here)

So far myself I've gotten 2x original GEC clear glass KT66 and let's just say I would never want to remove them; and they pair exceptionally well with either EL32's or EL39 as powers.
I wouldn't doubt for one second the potential if someone were to have Glenn design a custom amp around 2-4x KT88 or KT150 with KT66 as drivers. And it helps that many of the above mentioned are still in production as quality reissues at an affordable price.


----------



## leftside

The new production Gold Lions are very good. I have the Gold Lion KT88. But, they are not quite as good as decent original GEC KT88. The GEC tubes (in general) seem to extract and unveil more of the music. The big problem is the cost of the GEC KT88 (even more than the KT66) and most you see on eBay are garbage.  At least these on eBay are from a reputable seller and do indeed look NOS, but 450GBP?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEC-KT88...635916&hash=item2888ec0073:g:qDYAAOSwVTpdyTuy

If the GEC KT88 keep on increasing in price, then I'll be pulling them out of my Mac amps and sticking the Gold Lions back in.  The way the circuits are designed in my Mac amps, one could argue I should be using Gold Lions anyway. Tubes don't seem to make as big a difference in my new production Mac amps as they do with my friends vintage Mac amps.

I wouldn't use KT66 as drivers though. They are designed as power tubes. If you are getting a custom amp, you might as well have the amp designed properly for the tubes you are planning on using. The KT66 are too expensive to experiment with. Use them as they were meant to be used.


----------



## UntilThen

Those are the GEC KT88 that I've been offered. Quad for AUD $2200. I might buy it to hang on the Christmas tree or as an investment lol. I also don't think the KT66 should be used as drivers. 

I am quite stumped how people continue to use all kinds of tube in Euforia. Even KT88 and KT150. It's not a super amp for all kinds of tubes. It's designed by Feliks Audio to use 6sn7 and 6as7. You might as well use 300b and 845 tubes in it. I bet Feliks Audio are looking at such usage with consternation. Little did they know that their amps will be used with KT150 tubes !!!

..... and to raise the bar even further on an amp not build for KT150? Do you know how powerful a KT150 is? I was going to buy 8 of those to use in the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP amp but that amp is designed for KT88, KT120, KT150, EL34 tubes. Elise and Euforia are not !


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
For my own curiosity, what does it mean when you say the KT150 is a powerful tube when it is rated at 1.85A vs a 6AS7 at 2.5A?
Does this refer to plate dissipation? The difference is 70W vs 13W. If you don't use the full capacity, does it matter?
If I am not asking the right question, please correct me.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> For my own curiosity, what does it mean when you say the KT150 is a powerful tube when it is rated at 1.85A vs a 6AS7 at 2.5A?
> Does this refer to plate dissipation? The difference is 70W vs 13W. If you don't use the full capacity, does it matter?
> If I am not asking the right question, please correct me.



Technically I know zero but I've heard 8 x KT88 in the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP with HD800. It's good but not the best amp pairing with my HD800. In fact the GOTL sounds better to my ears. I just don't believe that the most powerful tube to be the best suited for headphones.

KT150 is better suited to stereo tube amps application. This is from the Tung Sol website.

_With a massive plate dissipation of 70 watts, the Tung-Sol KT150 is the most powerful octal beam tetrode ever produced. A pair of KT150s can allow an amplifier with a power output approaching 300 watts to be built._


----------



## mordy

From the continuation of the TS website you quoted:
_The Tung-Sol KT150 glass envelope is a special egg shaped balloon that was developed to improve thermal dissipation and maintain a superior vacuum for the best sound. The fact that the glass envelope has no flat sides means the Tung-Sol KT150 has no problems with microphonics._
I have yet to see a tube with flat sides but plenty of round tubes that are microphonic.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> The new production Gold Lions are very good. I have the Gold Lion KT88. But, they are not quite as good as decent original GEC KT88. The GEC tubes (in general) seem to extract and unveil more of the music. The big problem is the cost of the GEC KT88 (even more than the KT66) and most you see on eBay are garbage.  At least these on eBay are from a reputable seller and do indeed look NOS, but 450GBP?
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEC-KT88...635916&hash=item2888ec0073:g:qDYAAOSwVTpdyTuy
> 
> If the GEC KT88 keep on increasing in price, then I'll be pulling them out of my Mac amps and sticking the Gold Lions back in.  The way the circuits are designed in my Mac amps, one could argue I should be using Gold Lions anyway. Tubes don't seem to make as big a difference in my new production Mac amps as they do with my friends vintage Mac amps.
> ...



Wow they are as costly as 300Bs


----------



## dminches

I have a quad of original GEC KT88s in my Zesto BIA 120 amp.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Wow they are as costly as 300Bs


But the Gold Lion KT88 that @leftside say "are very good" only cost $99 for a pair!!
Maybe I should order a pair, shipped to you Glenn, so you can test on the new amp you'll be building for me... compare with the EL34 you got...


----------



## gibosi

With the gift-giving season nigh upon us, this just might be the perfect gift for someone on your list:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...or-Guitar-Radio-Audio-Audiophile/153645195554

Yes, a matched pair of SOCKS! lol


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> With the gift-giving season nigh upon us, this just might be the perfect gift for someone on your list:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...or-Guitar-Radio-Audio-Audiophile/153645195554
> 
> Yes, a matched pair of SOCKS! lol



I'm going to need to see some test results.  Are they truly a matched pair?  2018 vintage, based on construction


----------



## chrisdrop

Thought you all might find this fun.



Next frontier, rolling your own tubes! Get your torch & lathe out.


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 16, 2019)

Hey guys I compared the EL39 to the GEC KT66's and for me the winner goes to the mythical queen with a silver band and top cap (YMMV with other gear / ears). For anyone scouring these sacred tubes that cannot be duplicated, there are a few top notch listings online now:
https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=EL39


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> Thought you all might find this fun.
> 
> 
> 
> Next frontier, rolling your own tubes! Get your torch & lathe out.




Wow, to the untrained eye, seeing how these are made makes me feel they are worth their high prices.  Anyone know where the KR Audio 300B falls in the ranks of new production tubes?  $1,500 a pair, but the craftmanship is undeniable.  Thanks for posting, Chris!


----------



## whirlwind

It took these quite some time to make it to me, but they finally arrived.


A matched pair of 1946 Sylvania


 


 


Matched pair is GEC 6J5G.....maybe from 1960


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> It took these quite some time to make it to me, but they finally arrived.
> 
> 
> A matched pair of 1946 Sylvania
> ...



Hey you won those tubes!!! Congrats.

All aboard the L63 hype train  have a pair of 6J5 arriving today that I'm very excited about, assuming I don't miss the mail carrier.  Wish I could have USPS hold international packages for free...breaks my heart when I miss them.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey you won those tubes!!! Congrats.
> 
> All aboard the L63 hype train  have a pair of 6J5 arriving today that I'm very excited about, assuming I don't miss the mail carrier.  Wish I could have USPS hold international packages for free...breaks my heart when I miss them.




Thanks.  Yes, I contacted the seller and he took my offer, so I saved a few dollars.

This has worked many times for me. I highly recommend if you see something you like to make the seller an offer, they can not do anything but say no.

What 6J5g tubes are you expecting ?

What a killer loss for the Browns losing Garrett for the season, and right after a victory over the Steelers!  Go figure.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Thanks.  Yes, I contacted the seller and he took my offer, so I saved a few dollars.
> 
> This has worked many times for me. I highly recommend if you see something you like to make the seller an offer, they can not do anything but say no.
> 
> ...



That's great, I have done the same with a lot of success.

I am waiting for these beautiful NOS Fivre black plate 6J5GT, they have been lost at JFK for nearly two weeks.

 

I have to admit Joe, I think I have reached breaking point with the Browns, strongly considering giving them up, just feels like a dysfunctional relationship lol too much stress in my life.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 16, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> That's great, I have done the same with a lot of success.
> 
> I am waiting for these beautiful NOS Fivre black plate 6J5GT, they have been lost at JFK for nearly two weeks.
> 
> ...




Nice looking tubes.

I can't live without the Browns as I have been watching them since I was a kid. When my father was alive we never missed a game and I have kept that tradition going.
The few years without a team was hard.  I will be the first to admit that watching them can make you weary, lol.

Listening to this 4 cd from Stephen Stills is much more relaxing and hearing his fingers pluck the strings of the guitar is some really good stuff...thank god for music!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Nice looking tubes.
> 
> I can't live without the Browns as I have been watching them since I was a kid. When my father was alive we never missed a game and I have kept that tradition going.
> The few years without a team was hard.  I will be the first to admit that watching them can make you weary, lol.
> ...


I hear you, I was too young to feel the brunt of losing the team, I am sure it was humbling. I have only been following since the expansion, so I have not truly seen a successful Browns team in my lifetime, makes me wonder if it will ever come, I thought this was the year!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

So, after adding the rectifier/filter to change the filament current from AC to DC on my GOTL, I was getting higher voltages than before on the filaments, a little out of spec, due to the filter capacitor charging to the peak voltage of the incoming AC.  Per Glenn's suggested, I put a 1.5ohm 10W resistor in series with the filaments, which brought the DC back down to a nice happy 6.4V.  Which means...

I can now very comfortably use these tubes, Mullard NR52.  The voltage drop across the filaments was a little too high before for comfort with the adapter (around 4.9V with a 4V rating), now down to 3.9V.

I got these tubes from Billington when I inquired about Martin's MH4 stock.  Funny, he had told me he had some NOS Marconi MH4, which I purchased, then apologized profusely that he only had the "shouldered version with gold paint", which I recognized must be the Mullard variant.  YES PLEASE I said, these tubes are very uncommon, and wow, they are top performers, can't get enough.  They will be very pretty in their SET amp home.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Received another pretty tube the other day for the future amp, Fivre 5Z3 rectifier.  I will be using a Yamamoto UX4-B4 socket in the amp, such that 5V UX4 or 4V B4 rectifiers can be used.  This tube was my primary reason for wanting that flexibility, as I am a big Fivre fan and they did not make 4V rectifiers.  These tubes typically go for insane prices, but a seller recently posted a large batch of true NOS at a price I am willing to pay.  Never seen a Fivre box in this condition, it is immaculate.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have to admit Joe, I think I have reached breaking point with the Browns, strongly considering giving them up, just feels like a dysfunctional relationship lol too much stress in my life.


 dont sweat it man,at least you have the Cavaliers to root for....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> dont sweat it man,at least you have the Cavaliers to root for....



We've got a comedian on our hands!  Low blow D, low blow 

In other news, got the Fivre 6J5GT!  Turns out the plates are not black, they are gray, pictures were not very color-accurate.  No matter, I was planning to purchase both gray and black plate variants anyhow, will continue the hunt for the earlier black plates.  Very nice sounding tubes, and purdy.


----------



## leftside

I've got a new headphone amp  Early impressions are absolutely fantastic. Will share more thoughts tomorrow in a separate/new thread, after more listening. It's a beast. Even bigger than the Glenn 300B. Just running with GE power tubes for the time being.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> I've got a new headphone amp  Early impressions are absolutely fantastic. Will share more thoughts tomorrow in a separate/new thread, after more listening. It's a beast. Even bigger than the Glenn 300B. Just running with GE power tubes for the time being.


 Holy smokes! That thing looks like a beast! Congrats!


----------



## mordy

Congrats on the new amp! Can't read all the markings on the selector knob for different tube types - can you tell what they are?
Also what is the purpose of the meters?


----------



## leftside

And yes I will be getting a nice set of new shelves built for the amps. Sacrilege to have the 300B on the floor!


----------



## leftside (Nov 16, 2019)

mordy said:


> Congrats on the new amp! Can't read all the markings on the selector knob for different tube types - can you tell what they are?
> Also what is the purpose of the meters?


6SN7, 6J5, C3G, 6SL7, 12SN7 and 12SL7.

Vu meters on the top (amp) chassis to indicate volume levels (but "bling" really!), volt meter on the power chassis to indicate voltage level and milliamperes meter on the power chassis which changes depending upon how many power tubes are being used - each pair of power tubes takes about 95-105 ma, plus an extra 5-10 ma for the biasing and these values are recorded/shown on this milliamperes meter.


----------



## DecentLevi

@leftside I haven't even heard that amp, but just from the looks it seems like endgame material! And it seems to do everything except for 6L6 series tubes. Have you compared the sound to your 300B or others like the WA33?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Good morning  MOV L63 and Western Electric 421A to start the day.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> I've got a new headphone amp  Early impressions are absolutely fantastic. Will share more thoughts tomorrow in a separate/new thread, after more listening. It's a beast. Even bigger than the Glenn 300B. Just running with GE power tubes for the time being.



The only thing missing is a giant red button that activates all tubes simultaneously 

How are those Raytheon 6J5G?  An eBayer is selling Ferranti-branded pairs for high prices, he thinks they are made in Britain...


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Have a nice Sunday folks. Over here it's past dinner time already, Monday is not far away.

 

WE421A + ECC32 + 6x RCA 6BL7 to end the weekend


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 17, 2019)

leftside said:


> I've got a new headphone amp  Early impressions are absolutely fantastic. Will share more thoughts tomorrow in a separate/new thread, after more listening. It's a beast. Even bigger than the Glenn 300B. Just running with GE power tubes for the time being.




This looks killer!  Glad that you finally got it delivered  

The tube layout is wonderful.

I can't wait to hear your impressions...please post here of the new thread.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> 6SN7, 6J5, C3G, 6SL7, 12SN7 and 12SL7.
> 
> Vu meters on the top (amp) chassis to indicate volume levels (but "bling" really!), volt meter on the power chassis to indicate voltage level and milliamperes meter on the power chassis which changes depending upon how many power tubes are being used - each pair of power tubes takes about 95-105 ma, plus an extra 5-10 ma for the biasing and these values are recorded/shown on this milliamperes meter.


Another question - how do the milliampere meters help in the operation of the power chassis? Balancing the channels? Avoiding overloading the amp? Biasing?


----------



## leftside

Here's some of my initial thoughts, impressions, photos and history of the 1011 Audio "V6" custom headphone amp:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/

I'll now come back to talk about Glenn amps on here (and the occasional OT rambling of course).


----------



## leftside

DecentLevi said:


> @leftside I haven't even heard that amp, but just from the looks it seems like endgame material! And it seems to do everything except for 6L6 series tubes. Have you compared the sound to your 300B or others like the WA33?


It can use 6L6 and related tubes with adapters, but as the amp isn't designed specifically for those tubes, I think I'll probably give that a miss. At least for now anyway. A few comparisons to the 300B are on the thread I created. Summary version: I'm keeping both 



L0rdGwyn said:


> The only thing missing is a giant red button that activates all tubes simultaneously
> 
> How are those Raytheon 6J5G?  An eBayer is selling Ferranti-branded pairs for high prices, he thinks they are made in Britain...


I like the Raytheon 6J5G. I don't think I paid too much for them - about $30 each. NOS. Not sure you'll find them any different/better to others you have. Worth picking up as extra tubes if a seller has them though.



mordy said:


> Another question - how do the milliampere meters help in the operation of the power chassis? Balancing the channels? Avoiding overloading the amp? Biasing?


Its a display meter. Shows the amp is operating with the expected figure for 2, 4, or 6 power tubes.


----------



## zach915m (Nov 17, 2019)

I don't get to just relax and listen to music as much as I'd like - but have been able to enjoy this combo for a couple minutes tonight after a long day. Special thanks to @Hansotek for turning me on to the ecc31 lately.  Its fantastic.  Also been messing around with those L63 tubes thanks to @Monsterzero and @L0rdGwyn - those are fantastic as well.

And thanks to Glenn as well of course!

Edit: Listening on verite open tonight.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> It took these quite some time to make it to me, but they finally arrived.
> 
> 
> A matched pair of 1946 Sylvania
> ...


Hi whirlwind,
I just got the same Sylvania 12J5GT tubes as you have pictured - the only difference is that mine are from Dec 1946 whereas yours are from Sept '46.
I have played them for some 10-12 hours so far. The first 2-3 hours they did not sound good, but now they sound really nice. I am very curious how they compare to the L63 tubes. Maybe you will be able to make a comparison from memory or find the time to compare them. 
To me the Syls have a light airy sound with excellent mid range and treble and punchy and low bass. Also wonder if they sound better than the metal base 6SN7W.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 18, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi whirlwind,
> I just got the same Sylvania 12J5GT tubes as you have pictured - the only difference is that mine are from Dec 1946 whereas yours are from Sept '46.
> I have played them for some 10-12 hours so far. The first 2-3 hours they did not sound good, but now they sound really nice. I am very curious how they compare to the L63 tubes. Maybe you will be able to make a comparison from memory or find the time to compare them.
> To me the Syls have a light airy sound with excellent mid range and treble and punchy and low bass. Also wonder if they sound better than the metal base 6SN7W.




Hi mordy,

I am afraid that I will not be able to compare them as I do not have an adapter to use these tubes for my OTL amp.
I actually bought these tubes just to stash for my new amp.

When I had @L0rdGwyn adapter and metal base Sylvania 6J5GT tubes here....I much liked them and found them to be airy, with great mid range and treble also with a very nice bass
I have a few 6/12 SN7's from the the 40's and 50's and they all sound nice.


Here is my pair of Metal base 6J5GT and the Sylvania 12J5GT
Sorry the pics are not very good.
I originally thought the construction was different, but after looking at both the only difference in mine are the
plates are grey on my metal base 6J5GT and black on my 12J5GT


Metal base 6J5GT


Sylvania 12J5GT


----------



## carlman14

You know what the worst (and best) part of waiting for a Glenn amp is? Every month that goes by, I think, "hmm, maybe I want X upgrade too. Oooh, might as well get Y upgrade as well". So the longer I wait, the more expensive my GOTL is getting! It's gone from $1300, to $1500, to $1600, and now I'm debating whether or not I want to go full Yamamoto sockets. Send help.


----------



## Hansotek

zach915m said:


> I don't get to just relax and listen to music as much as I'd like - but have been able to enjoy this combo for a couple minutes tonight after a long day. Special thanks to @Hansotek for turning me on to the ecc31 lately.  Its fantastic.  Also been messing around with those L63 tubes thanks to @Monsterzero and @L0rdGwyn - those are fantastic as well.
> 
> And thanks to Glenn as well of course!
> 
> Edit: Listening on verite open tonight.



Yeah! That ECC31 hasn't come out of my GOTL in a long time.


----------



## chrisdrop

.. waiting on a 6J5 adapter any day. These came today (along with some others).


----------



## Xcalibur255

leftside said:


> I've got a new headphone amp  Early impressions are absolutely fantastic. Will share more thoughts tomorrow in a separate/new thread, after more listening. It's a beast. Even bigger than the Glenn 300B. Just running with GE power tubes for the time being.



Oh wow it's finished already.  Congrats!  Looking forward to reading your impression posts.


----------



## Monsterzero

So at the risk of ridicule for bringing up the topic again...

@Gopher represents a hi end cable company,and recently sent me a $800.00 USB cable to try,Final Touch Audio Callisto.

Unlike headphones,amps,DACs or even tubes many people scoff at the prospect of how much of a difference a cable,let alone a USB cable can make in ones system. Given the snake oil mentality that I know many members have,I approached the cable with a certain degree of skepticism before putting it into my chain. Almost instantly I noticed a massive change.... Like Wow! What a difference! Im not talking small,incremental changes either. In fact,I would say it changed the sound of my system more than it did when I went from my Vinshine to my TRP,which was no small change itself. It completely transformed everything I am hearing. Theres so much information in a given song that im hearing that I literally had no idea was even there after over fifty years on this planet.

The staging goes from 3D to hyper 3D and im able to hear so much more detail across the board. The separation is off the charts. 

Now my report isnt all rosy. Im noticing less midbass slam,but it could be because the cable itself has only about 50 hours on it,so perhaps this aspect will improve.

FWIW I get no kickbacks or have any financial interest involved whatsoever in this venture. Im just reporting what im hearing. Some of us will not blink an eye dropping $800.00 on a NOS pair of great tubes. While many members of this forum will laugh at that thought,those of us in this thread know what great tubes can do to the way we hear music. Im telling you here and now,this cable has made a ginourmous difference in what im hearing. Its almost like an entirely new system to be honest.

If the midbass returns to its previous state I will be purchasing one for myself.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 18, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> So at the risk of ridicule for bringing up the topic again...
> 
> @Gopher represents a hi end cable company,and recently sent me a $800.00 USB cable to try,Final Touch Audio Callisto.
> 
> ...



Not going to lie D, probably six months ago I would have scoffed and thought something like "but it's all just 0s and 1s".  But my mindset has changed...ever since I heard significant and undeniable (for me) improvements when changing the coupling cap resistors in my GOTL, or while having the Amber 3 on loan versus better measuring SS DACs, I am very much taking a "don't knock it 'til you've tried it" approach to audio gear, especially gear that I otherwise would never have experimented with.  I am about to put a deposit down on a DAC that uses a tube-clocked USB to SPDIF implementation, from a builder who takes the quality of digital data transfer very seriously, so if I am willing to try that, I better be willing to try a fancy USB cable!  I am being more-opened minded based on my recent experiences and I am very excited to see what changes it brings.  Thanks for sharing, will definitely keep this in mind for the future.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am very much taking a "don't knock it 'til you've tried it" approach to audio gear, especially gear that I otherwise would never have experimented with.


 Just when we think weve heard it all in this hobby,and have already attained summit fi,along comes something so ridiculously expensive,yet offers tangible improvements that it cannot be denied.  This hobby never fails to surprise,nor stop draining our wallets.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Just when we think weve heard it all in this hobby,and have already attained summit fi,along comes something so ridiculously expensive,yet offers tangible improvements that it cannot be denied.  This hobby never fails to surprise,nor stop draining our wallets.



Hey, as long as the spending isn't unhealthy, you can afford it, and you are having fun, who cares.  There are worse things to be addicted to than expensive audio gear


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hansotek said:


> Yeah! That ECC31 hasn't come out of my GOTL in a long time.



You should try the metal Ken Rad 6N7...similar thrills to the ECC31


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> You should try the metal Ken Rad 6N7...similar thrills to the ECC31



I just went back to the Ken Rad metal 6N7 this evening, after about a week with dual 6J5s or 12J5s (metal and glass).  The KR doesn't have the separation that the dual tubes have, but it just sounds so good otherwise that it doesn't matter.  Listening to some live North Mississippi Allstars, and the guitar distortions they are using are awesome with this tube.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 18, 2019)

Because I am crazy, I bought a spare GOTL chassis to replace the back panel of my amp, arrived today.  My GOTL came with XLR inputs since it was secondhand, I have been using adapters for RCA.  Well I am tired of those clunky adapters, time to get rid of them.

I will drill holes in the new back panel to replace them with these German nextgen WBT-0210 RCA sockets.  A very reliable source, the internet, tells me these are the best out there.  Who knows, but they look pretty cool!

Also have the front panel in case I want to get creative down the road 

https://www.wbt.de/english/products/a/Detailansicht/Artikel/nextgenTM-cinchbuchse-topline-2.html


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> So at the risk of ridicule for bringing up the topic again...
> @Gopher represents a hi end cable company,and recently sent me a $800.00 USB cable to try,Final Touch Audio Callisto.



Sounds like this cable needs to go on tour!


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Sounds like this cable needs to go on tour!


 @Gopher ...your move.


----------



## Monsterzero

GDuss said:


> I just went back to the Ken Rad metal 6N7 this evening, after about a week with dual 6J5s or 12J5s (metal and glass).  The KR doesn't have the separation that the dual tubes have, but it just sounds so good otherwise that it doesn't matter.  Listening to some live North Mississippi Allstars, and the guitar distortions they are using are awesome with this tube.


 Its good to see Ken Rads getting some love in here. Theyre killer paired up with a sextet of 6bx7s and the VC


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> @Gopher ...your move.


I'm the biggest non-believer of USB cables there is, so if I can be convinced anyone can. I'll be especially nice to my wife, and get her to swap the cables without me looking and give my honest thoughts.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Its good to see Ken Rads getting some love in here. Theyre killer paired up with a sextet of 6bx7s and the VC



Ken Rad has always been one of my favorite brands in tubular devices.  Me and the K-R's go way back.


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> Its good to see Ken Rads getting some love in here. Theyre killer paired up with a sextet of 6bx7s and the VC



I spent some time last week with dual Ken Rad 12J5GTs and 6x 6BL7s, that was great too.  I need to do a comparison between a KR 12SN7, 6N7 (metal), and dual 12J5s.  Ken Rad death match (or Ken Rad love fest, depending on how you look at it).


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> I'm the biggest non-believer of USB cables there is, so if I can be convinced anyone can. I'll be especially nice to my wife, and get her to swap the cables without me looking and give my honest thoughts.


Ive heard some nice cables in demos before,but in a demo,youre listening to a whole high end system,so theres no way to know what component(or cable) is doing what. Hearing this thing in my system made me a believer,and again to stress the point,im not hearing a small difference...its huge.

Im texting with Fred trying to get a tour going....maybe if I can get enough of you to scream loud enough for a tour he will respond....


----------



## mordy

Funny that you mention Ken-Rad tubes - I am just trying out a July 1944 Ken-Rad 6SN7GT /VT231. It is here for rehab and has been treated by the abdominal band procedure, heat treatment and (unintentional) shock treatment. 



The diagnosis is still in question and the prognosis is unclear but possibly we can knock some sense into it and mitigate it's boisterous behavior.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Funny that you mention Ken-Rad tubes - I am just trying out a July 1944 Ken-Rad 6SN7GT /VT231. It is here for rehab and has been treated by the abdominal band procedure, heat treatment and (unintentional) shock treatment.
> 
> The diagnosis is still in question and the prognosis is unclear but possibly we can knock some sense into it and mitigate it's boisterous behavior.



Mordy's 12-step rehab plan, hopefully it makes it all the way to the end of the program!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Funny that you mention Ken-Rad tubes - I am just trying out a July 1944 Ken-Rad 6SN7GT /VT231. It is here for rehab and has been treated by the abdominal band procedure, heat treatment and (unintentional) shock treatment.
> 
> The diagnosis is still in question and the prognosis is unclear but possibly we can knock some sense into it and mitigate it's boisterous behavior.



Yes, Dr Mordy is on the case!


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> This hobby never fails to surprise,nor stop draining our wallets.


This! 
Being an engineer, I never believed a headphone-cable / interconnect / DAC could make audible difference. Especially knowing I do NOT have golden ears... I was wrong! Nothing surprises me anymore...


----------



## Zachik

JazzVinyl said:


> Sounds like this cable needs to go on tour!


Careful what you wish for... I said the same about the Amber 3 DAC, and... I have one on order!!


----------



## RMarks271

Possibly (probably) a stupid question - is the best / only way to place an order with Glenn through this thread, or via PM? I'm looking at purchasing one of his builds after reading the insane reviews from this forum, and pair it with a pair of ZMF Verites - if anyone could chime in with their experiences of that it would be much appreciated.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

RMarks271 said:


> Possibly (probably) a stupid question - is the best / only way to place an order with Glenn through this thread, or via PM? I'm looking at purchasing one of his builds after reading the insane reviews from this forum, and pair it with a pair of ZMF Verites - if anyone could chime in with their experiences of that it would be much appreciated.



Yes, contacting Glenn directly via PM is the only way, and therefore, the best way


----------



## RMarks271

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, contacting Glenn directly via PM is the only way, and therefore, the best way



Thanks!


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Nov 22, 2019)

Tonight's menu: 12au7 telefunken + C3g driver triplet with RCA 6x 6BL7 and WE422A. I've been using a pair of 12au7 in my Freya preamp for a long time, the adaptor was by @Deyan . Will try Mullard CV497 later if I don't fall asleep early. These 12au7 tubes are some of my fav driver tubes in other amps / circuits, glad they sound good in GOTL too


----------



## dminches

JazzVinyl said:


> Sounds like this cable needs to go on tour!



The tour has actually started since I sent the cable to Monsterzero.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Does that cable have the 5V/ground pins active?


----------



## Monsterzero

dminches said:


> The tour has actually started since I sent the cable to Monsterzero.



I ordered a pair of RCA cables yesterday based upon Fred's recommendation. Once those arrive and are in place,I will really give this USB cable a serious listen.
If the bass comes around then Im not sure if this cable will ever make it out of my house.


----------



## dminches

Monsterzero said:


> I ordered a pair of RCA cables yesterday based upon Fred's recommendation. Once those arrive and are in place,I will really give this USB cable a serious listen.
> If the bass comes around then Im not sure if this cable will ever make it out of my house.



What interconnects did you order?

I liked the FTA USB but I didn’t think it was very different from my Sablon Audio USB.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Does that cable have the 5V/ground pins active?


@Gopher can probably answer that. 
Heres a thread dedicated to this cable. Note the gear some of these guys have in their systems...hundreds of thousands. Many of the observations being made are comparing it to other big $$ USB cables(found one thats $2400.00),yet the reviews are glowing. For these guys,where cash is no object,they still love this cable.

As for me,im coming from a USB cable that was actually an "upgraded" one...something like fifty bucks.


----------



## Monsterzero

dminches said:


> What interconnects did you order?



https://www.triodewirelabs.com/product/single-ended-rca/

30 day $ back guarantee,minus 0.9 %


----------



## dminches

Monsterzero said:


> https://www.triodewirelabs.com/product/single-ended-rca/
> 
> 30 day $ back guarantee,minus 0.9 %



I have never tried them.

I am partial to Audioquest cables.  They just work will in my system.  There are tons of good cables out there.


----------



## Monsterzero

dminches said:


> I liked the FTA USB but I didn’t think it was very different from my Sablon Audio USB.


 Their site doesnt work....?
How does it compare to the FTA? Pricing? Do you have the powered one?


----------



## dminches

Monsterzero said:


> Their site doesnt work....?
> How does it compare to the FTA? Pricing? Do you have the powered one?



For some reason the web site has been having issues.  Likely an issue with their host.

I have the unpowered one.  My Big 7 doesn’t require power.

I think the cost of the Sablon cables are 50-60% of the FTA.


----------



## dminches

The website should be working now.


----------



## Gopher

I'm very glad to read of your early impressions of the cable.  Keep burning it in, things are going to continue to improve over the next hundred hours or so.

I may be able to organize a tour like i did with the Amber, but will need at least a couple of weeks before I'm ready for that as we're trying to keep up with the holiday demand.

Thanks for the interest, guys!

Fred


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> Mordy's 12-step rehab plan, hopefully it makes it all the way to the end of the program!!!


[/QUOTE]

Let's see how many steps:
1)Admitting: The subject was somewhat reluctant to give information but admitted to a military past as in VT-231. VT is very hard to decipher because it is too simple: It means Vacuum Tube.
Date of birth - T 4. Since Ken-Rad was sold to GE in 1945 it seems logical that 4 means 1944. If you assign a letter to each of the 12 months and want to confuse things you start all over with the letter N as January; in that case T is July. Ken-Rad 6SN7GT/VT-231 from July 1944.
2)Cleanup: The pins showed signs of abrasions. A touch up was done under a magnifying glass scraping the pins with a pen knife of Swiss origin.
3)Initial testing: The tube was tested in the GOTL and immediately started humming loudly. When tapped on top (you are not supposed to this with the tube lit up, but since the tube was made to military specifications it has to be able to take a little abuse) it emitted crackling and howling noises. Tapping on the chassis had the same unpleasant effects. 
4)The treating team didn't really know what to do, so they resorted to applying an abdominal band of tightly stretched high temperature silicone tape around the glass envelope of the tube. At least it did not deface the tube since it has a black internal coating.
4b)Upon re-testing the noise and hum seem to have been lowered. Until it came back in full strength. The treating team decided on another treatment modality.
5)Heat treatment. Each tube pin was heat treated with an antique Radio Shack 35W soldering iron for 30 seconds. In order to endure this boring procedure, a pair of 12V triodes were inserted in the amp so that this procedure could be accompanied by music.
6)Shock treatment. After the heating of the tube pins was finished, the tube was re-inserted for further tests. The power button blue light hesitated a little to light up and the tube was glowing very brightly. Due to a glitch in the testing protocol a split second or two of 12V was applied to this 6V tube. ALWAYS CHECK THE VOLTAGE SELECTOR BEFORE PUTTING IN A NEW TUBE!
Did this finish the tube? Kaput? Is it all over Charlie KR?

No.

The tube survived the electric shock treatment. Before it s sounded more dull - now it sounds better. This was done serendipitously; this treatment modality is NOT recommended but c'est la vie.

The tube is still noisy and humming, but less hum.

7)Physical therapy: By tapping on the tube and moving it around a little in the socket and tilting it here and there, it is possible to find a position that is more quiet. This requires the use of sacrificial headphones lest a pop will blow your driver. The ones they give out on airlines are perfect for this but I have a bottom line Sennheiser HD201 the so far is holding up.
The tube runs hot - luckily the silicone tape acts as an insulator.

Maybe the tube is less noisy now but still humming.

As a last resort to tame this tube the treatment team decided on something more drastic.

8)High intensity kinetic acceleration/deceleration Rx: The tube was carefully and securely wrapped in a towel and smacked against my palm 10 times. Why 10 times? Why not?
9)After this final procedure the tube was tested for internal anomalies.  By shaking it, it was determined that something is rattling in it. Maybe this accounts for the tube being able to function by jiggling it into certain positions. Due to the military blackout restrictions (tube coated black) the cause of the rattle could not be determined.

At this point the tube is usable. It is still microphonic and crackles if the chassis is tapped; however, when jiggling it into the right position, listening via headphones, I can turn up the volume to max on the GOTL (without music playing) and there is barely any hum or noise and then only at too high levels to listen to. I submit that my hearing isn't the best and I cannot hear very high frequencies (age related) that a younger person might hear.
At normal levels the tube now is fine and humpfrey. As a matter of fact, this is a very good sounding tube and it has the familial great bass that Ken-Rad is famous for.

I wish to give thanks to Chrisdrop who graciously sponsored this experiment.

Explanations as to the pathology and possible cures of the tube are welcome.


----------



## GDuss (Nov 19, 2019)

[/QUOTE]

Let's see how many steps:
1)Admitting: The subject was somewhat reluctant to give information but admitted to a military past as in VT-231. VT is very hard to decipher because it is too simple: It means Vacuum Tube.
Date of birth - T 4. Since Ken-Rad was sold to GE in 1945 it seems logical that 4 means 1944. If you assign a letter to each of the 12 months and want to confuse things you start all over with the letter N as January; in that case T is July. Ken-Rad 6SN7GT/VT-231 from July 1944.
2)Cleanup: The pins showed signs of abrasions. A touch up was done under a magnifying glass scraping the pins with a pen knife of Swiss origin.
3)Initial testing: The tube was tested in the GOTL and immediately started humming loudly. When tapped on top (you are not supposed to this with the tube lit up, but since the tube was made to military specifications it has to be able to take a little abuse) it emitted crackling and howling noises. Tapping on the chassis had the same unpleasant effects.
4)The treating team didn't really know what to do, so they resorted to applying an abdominal band of tightly stretched high temperature silicone tape around the glass envelope of the tube. At least it did not deface the tube since it has a black internal coating.
4b)Upon re-testing the noise and hum seem to have been lowered. Until it came back in full strength. The treating team decided on another treatment modality.
5)Heat treatment. Each tube pin was heat treated with an antique Radio Shack 35W soldering iron for 30 seconds. In order to endure this boring procedure, a pair of 12V triodes were inserted in the amp so that this procedure could be accompanied by music.
6)Shock treatment. After the heating of the tube pins was finished, the tube was re-inserted for further tests. The power button blue light hesitated a little to light up and the tube was glowing very brightly. Due to a glitch in the testing protocol a split second or two of 12V was applied to this 6V tube. ALWAYS CHECK THE VOLTAGE SELECTOR BEFORE PUTTING IN A NEW TUBE!
Did this finish the tube? Kaput? Is it all over Charlie KR?

No.

The tube survived the electric shock treatment. Before it s sounded more dull - now it sounds better. This was done serendipitously; this treatment modality is NOT recommended but c'est la vie.

The tube is still noisy and humming, but less hum.

7)Physical therapy: By tapping on the tube and moving it around a little in the socket and tilting it here and there, it is possible to find a position that is more quiet. This requires the use of sacrificial headphones lest a pop will blow your driver. The ones they give out on airlines are perfect for this but I have a bottom line Sennheiser HD201 the so far is holding up.
The tube runs hot - luckily the silicone tape acts as an insulator.

Maybe the tube is less noisy now but still humming.

As a last resort to tame this tube the treatment team decided on something more drastic.

8)High intensity kinetic acceleration/deceleration Rx: The tube was carefully and securely wrapped in a towel and smacked against my palm 10 times. Why 10 times? Why not?
9)After this final procedure the tube was tested for internal anomalies.  By shaking it, it was determined that something is rattling in it. Maybe this accounts for the tube being able to function by jiggling it into certain positions. Due to the military blackout restrictions (tube coated black) the cause of the rattle could not be determined.

At this point the tube is usable. It is still microphonic and crackles if the chassis is tapped; however, when jiggling it into the right position, listening via headphones, I can turn up the volume to max on the GOTL (without music playing) and there is barely any hum or noise and then only at too high levels to listen to. I submit that my hearing isn't the best and I cannot hear very high frequencies (age related) that a younger person might hear.
At normal levels the tube now is fine and humpfrey. As a matter of fact, this is a very good sounding tube and it has the familial great bass that Ken-Rad is famous for.

I wish to give thanks to Chrisdrop who graciously sponsored this experiment.

Explanations as to the pathology and possible cures of the tube are welcome.[/QUOTE]

Well you did everything you could.  Surgery under the microscope, chest compression, a tourniquet, you got out the paddles to try to get it back in rhythm... after all that the patient is limping and weary, but alive, and still showing signs of its heritage.  The only question now is what's the bill for this emergency department visit?  And does Chris have insurance?


----------



## mordy (Nov 19, 2019)

Well you did everything you could.  Surgery under the microscope, chest compression, a tourniquet, you got out the paddles to try to get it back in rhythm... after all that the patient is limping and weary, but alive, and still showing signs of its heritage.  The only question now is what's the bill for this emergency department visit?  And does Chris have insurance?[/QUOTE]
Hi GDuss,
I am listening to a tune called Happy Hour Blues. This a fitting title since the tube seems to have recovered very well. I am listening now for the entire evening without a hitch - sounds very good.
If I was ambitious I would compare the Ken-Rad metal tubes 6C/J5, the top cap anode 6F8G, as well as the VT-231....


----------



## chrisdrop (Nov 20, 2019)

mordy said:


> Let's see how many steps:
> 1)Admitting: The subject was somewhat reluctant to give information but admitted to a military past as in VT-231. VT is very hard to decipher because it is too simple: It means Vacuum Tube.
> Date of birth - T 4. Since Ken-Rad was sold to GE in 1945 it seems logical that 4 means 1944. If you assign a letter to each of the 12 months and want to confuse things you start all over with the letter N as January; in that case T is July. Ken-Rad 6SN7GT/VT-231 from July 1944.
> 2)Cleanup: The pins showed signs of abrasions. A touch up was done under a magnifying glass scraping the pins with a pen knife of Swiss origin.
> ...



Wow. Quite the journey.

We should never underestimate the palliative impact of not only experience with perseverance, but also a charming bedside manner, with a good dose of humour.

@mordy - the tube whisperer.

Just like the Fonz himself, give it the right nudge and - bam!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 20, 2019)

Slogging my way through the absolute epitome of mindless work...chained to my desk until it is done.

Fortunately, I have the GOTL to push me to the finish line, been listening to the Western Electric 421A all week and swapping driver tubes.  Today we have my pair of Visseaux 6J5G, a highly-prized pair of tubes for me.  I call this setup the Clear Top Troupe.


----------



## Monsterzero

@Zachik 

You asked if I was going to do a video review of the Aurender N100H. I may do so in the future,but here's the condensed shortened version.
It sounds great,however absolutely,positively do not purchase one if you do not own,or plan to buy an iPad. The Android version of the Conducter app is garbage,like,practically worthless. I had to purchase an iPad just for one app....really.

Another thing,make sure your music collection is *meticulously* organized. I thought mine was pretty well sorted,but oh no,not for the Aurender. 

If you have a large library of music,plan on spending a day to upload it onto the hard drive,and another week or longer to set up playlists. Im still not finished,and my collection is a modest 1.4 TBs.

Its a huge testimony to the state of dedicated servers when the Conductor is generally regarded as the most user friendly software out there. If that is the case,im glad I didnt go for another company,because the software,even on an iPad is a pain in the arse to use.

It does sound good tho,so theres that.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> @Zachik
> 
> You asked if I was going to do a video review of the Aurender N100H. I may do so in the future,but here's the condensed shortened version.
> It sounds great,however absolutely,positively do not purchase one if you do not own,or plan to buy an iPad. The Android version of the Conducter app is garbage,like,practically worthless. I had to purchase an iPad just for one app....really.
> ...


Can you use Roon with the Aurender? It's the simplest music software I've used. Just point it at your music collection and away you go. I've discovered a lot of new music with Roon Radio this year, and now they have a new version called Valence. Looks good. I'll try it out tomorrow:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-7-is-live/84126


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Can you use Roon with the Aurender? It's the simplest music software I've used. Just point it at your music collection and away you go. I've discovered a lot of new music with Roon Radio this year, and now they have a new version called Valence. Looks good. I'll try it out tomorrow:
> https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-7-is-live/84126


 Im not really sure TBH. I know its compatible with Tidal,but I really dont have much interest in streaming.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> do not purchase one if you do not own,or plan to buy an iPad


Strike 1.



Monsterzero said:


> Another thing,make sure your music collection is *meticulously* organized. I thought mine was pretty well sorted,but oh no,not for the Aurender.


Strike 2.



Monsterzero said:


> Its a huge testimony to the state of dedicated servers when the Conductor is generally regarded as the most user friendly software out there. If that is the case,im glad I didnt go for another company,because the software,even on an iPad is a pain in the arse to use.


That is the reason I opted for a "real" PC running a "real" OS and JRiver's MC software!
When I did mu own research on music servers a year or so ago, I was shocked at how primitive they all seemed. Even the very pricey ones...


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Strike 1.
> 
> 
> Strike 2.
> ...



I bolted the Apple ecosystem back in the beginning of this century,so I had to learn how to use an iPad all over again. 
Somehow we had a $150.00 tablet credit at the Verizon store. I opted for an older model,so they actually ended up paying us $50.00 to get it. 

It is pretty primitive,but I will stick with it for the time being. It sounds good,and im on my very last playlist,metal,which happens to be my largest folder.   I will be up til 4am again.
Why do I do this to myself?!?


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> I will be up til 4am again.
> Why do I do this to myself?!?


Because it is either this, or you'll be A/B-ing USB cables...


----------



## whirlwind

I am not a fan of streaming music either.

I just bought a huge server tower and loaded it with hard drives and put windows on a ssd with nothing else on it...just windows.

Music is on all of the other hard drives and I am using foobar 2000.  Works like a charm and playlist are easy peasy .

Works flawlessly ....when ever I need more space I just throw in another hard drive as the case has 11 bays.


----------



## dminches

leftside said:


> Can you use Roon with the Aurender? It's the simplest music software I've used. Just point it at your music collection and away you go. I've discovered a lot of new music with Roon Radio this year, and now they have a new version called Valence. Looks good. I'll try it out tomorrow:
> https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-7-is-live/84126



No.  The Aurender has not been programmed to be a Roon endpoint.

I have been running Roon for 9 months now.  It is the best program I have used which includes Aurender's software and jriver.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Roon works quick and painlessly, I’m really enjoying it with my innuos server so far.


----------



## Velozity

Monsterzero said:


> @Zachik
> 
> You asked if I was going to do a video review of the Aurender N100H. I may do so in the future,but here's the condensed shortened version.
> It sounds great,however absolutely,positively do not purchase one if you do not own,or plan to buy an iPad. The Android version of the Conducter app is garbage,like,practically worthless. I had to purchase an iPad just for one app....really.
> ...




Can you import playlists that were created in iTunes?  I'd love to get a music server to replace my MacBook Pro, but I would prefer one that allows my playlists to carryover.


----------



## Monsterzero

Velozity said:


> Can you import playlists that were created in iTunes?  I'd love to get a music server to replace my MacBook Pro, but I would prefer one that allows my playlists to carryover.


 Not sure as I havent used iTunes in a very long time,but from what I gather you can. Try giving this a read and see if it helps.

https://www.sound-lab.com/blog/aurender-playlists


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Im not really sure TBH. I know its compatible with Tidal,but I really dont have much interest in streaming.


Don't need to stream to take advantage of Roon  I used it for a couple of years without any streaming. I only use the Tidal/Stream piece when interested in Roon finding new music (related to current music tastes). All of my music is stored locally on my PC SSD drives or on my portable devices. I don't want to be reliant on an external music service for my music. What if they went bust?


----------



## chrisdrop (Nov 21, 2019)

Thanks to the fine folks at Billington and @Deyan - first session on the 6J5 bandwagon. Just made it past sacrificial headphones and sounding good already. I am sure with some hours, even more niceness is afoot.




Accompanied by a 6 pack of 6BL7s....



Several of you know I have been dealing with a mains noise issue at my house (no amp issues). The issue persists, but I have made incremental progress improving the score in my home's ground-loop impedance. It was very poor. The issue is not fixed, but is slightly better. Various tubes cope with the underlying mains hum better or worse. With this set of tubes the noise is only audible when the music is stopped or very quiet. As such, listening times are good. When my mains journey is over - I will post a summary somewhere as there have been many twists and turns - and the fat lady has yet to sing!

Be well fellow listeners...

This post brought to you by: https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/3805de6f-5907-4195-a9fa-ca2bf8737bd2


----------



## leftside

dminches said:


> No.  The Aurender has not been programmed to be a Roon endpoint.
> 
> I have been running Roon for 9 months now.  It is the best program I have used which includes Aurender's software and jriver.


I've just cancelled an afternoon meeting so I can get home sooner to play with Roon 1.7 <geek>.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 21, 2019)

Linux makes a fine music server platform and is free.

There is VLC for the player (also free), which supports a great variety of playlist formats.  VLC also offers many software based playback options, as well as remote control via any browser connected to your network.  As well as a phone amp.  Impress your friends by whipping out your phone and changing playlists or turning the stereo volume up...or down 

VLC can also stream your music to you from anywhere in the world if you also use the free linux VPN app.  You can be your own private secure music streaming service


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> Thanks to the fine folks at Billington and @Deyan - first session on the 6J5 bandwagon. Just made it past sacrificial headphones and sounding good already. I am sure with some hours, even more niceness is afoot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Beautiful Chris!

Are those "coin based" 6BL7's???

And congrats in progress on ground issues.   Just for giggles if you have access to the earth outside a window, might be worth a try...to temporally ground the amp (case screw) to a metal pole (tent peg would do) driven into the ground outside.  Just to see if that is the cure...


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Thanks to the fine folks at Billington and @Deyan - first session on the 6J5 bandwagon. Just made it past sacrificial headphones and sounding good already. I am sure with some hours, even more niceness is afoot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You need to invite Dr. Mordy over, and he can work on your mains noise with his multi-step program .


----------



## chrisdrop

JazzVinyl said:


> Are those "coin based" 6BL7's???



Not sure. They are GE 6BL7GTAs according to the boxes. They are all NOS, pretty, inexpensive, via Billington. They have very small metal bases, not much to grab. Here is a close-up. They have < a dozen hours on them and sound good already. 

 

Here are the boxes:

 



JazzVinyl said:


> And congrats in progress on ground issues. Just for giggles if you have access to the earth outside a window, might be worth a try...to temporally ground the amp (case screw) to a metal pole (tent peg would do) driven into the ground outside. Just to see if that is the cure...



I have not done that specifically yet, but have done a great load of ground-related things. I will give that one a go.There is a window not too far to try that.  I guess just get a copper wire, clip 1 end to the amp & the other attached to a metal tent peg and see if it makes a difference. Adventures galore.

.. and yes @GDuss - I am sure Dr Mordy would work a treat on my power matters.


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> Not sure. They are GE 6BL7GTAs according to the boxes. They are all NOS, pretty, inexpensive, via Billington. They have very small metal bases, not much to grab. Here is a close-up. They have < a dozen hours on them and sound good already.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Man!  Yes they are coin based 6BL7's!!!   What a light show!  I have a couple RCA coin based 6BX7's but have never seen coin based 6BL7's!!    Excellent!!

Yes, worth a try to do the 'massive self effort grounding' and see what happens.  If it does work you know for sure the problem is grounding.  Don't keep it in place as it is also lightning rod!!  But you will be much further along in knowledge, if it does work!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 21, 2019)

6 pack of GAS7G/6080:

I bought the Triad 20 amp 6.3 volt transformer (again) and am awaiting parts needed to make a wooden box that will be the same depth as the GOTL.  Going to "dock" the box to the right of the GOTL and power the 6x power tube heaters via the external transformer.  Have it jerry-rigged now to heat 2x power tubes and have been enjoying 4x 6080 and 2x GEC 6AS7G ( generously on loan to me from @GDuss ).

4 more socket savers that bring pins 7/8 out to externally heat the tubes have been ordered from Mrs Xu (she gave me a great price on 4):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/191741357847

I love what I am getting!  The lows and lower mids are tremendously intimate.  The photo shows a TS 12SN7 mouse ears driver.  I have since switched to the 75+ year old NOS 12J5 Tung Sol's and the intimacy is extended through the mids.  Better separation, wider sound stage, too.

I have "Pipe Organ" bass - like it is vibrating the floor and chair I am sitting in.  This is an illusion, of course, but man...it is FUN!



 

When I get the box made and am powering all 6 power tube heaters externally, an added benefit will be the GOTL running very cool since it won't need to provide the amperage to the power tube heaters.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Not sure. They are GE 6BL7GTAs according to the boxes. They are all NOS, pretty, inexpensive, via Billington. They have very small metal bases, not much to grab. Here is a close-up. They have < a dozen hours on them and sound good already.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Chrisdrop,

Don't know if I can offer much help for ground related things. Have you tried some kind of power conditioner?

Way back on the Little Dot thread we had a Pakistani guy who lived in Saudi Arabia who had major problems with the ground  (UT will remember).. He lived in a tall apartment building and was finally able to cure his problem by running a wire out his window to a peg in the ground.
For a long time I had hum and at one point connected a wire to the chassis of my LD MKIII that went to a long 4 gauge booster cable with clamps (for jumpstarting a car with a dead battery) and attached the other end to a metal water pipe under a counter in my kitchen.
Didn't help, luckily for me, because of the WAF (wife acceptance factor) - my wife would not let me have thick battery cables adorning her kitchen counter......
I seem to remember attaching a wire to one of the chassis screws and the other end to the grounded portion of one of the RCA plugs in the back of the amp and this helped a little.
Somehow the grounding problems and hum seemed to resolve themselves over time and with the GOTL I don't have any problems.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

TGIF, happy Friday folks!

 

PS > I have found that I like my RCA 6BL7 sextet better than Tung Sol 6BL7 tubes. Time to roll Sylvania 6BL7s next week to try another flavour


----------



## mordy

UsoppNoKami said:


> TGIF, happy Friday folks!
> 
> 
> 
> PS > I have found that I like my RCA 6BL7 sextet better than Tung Sol 6BL7 tubes. Time to roll Sylvania 6BL7s next week to try another flavour


The earlier Sylvania 6BL7 had flat plates, and later ones x-plates. Supposedly the flat plates sound better.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

mordy said:


> The earlier Sylvania 6BL7 had flat plates, and later ones x-plates. Supposedly the flat plates sound better.



Thanks for the heads up Mordy..

 

Can see that the flat plate 6BL7 has a very different construction from the X plates. I only have 2 of them tho so won't be able to do a proper A/B. I have 6 of the X plates. 

Cheers


----------



## mordy

UsoppNoKami said:


> Thanks for the heads up Mordy..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's all good!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I have sextets of both the flat and T-plate Sylvania 6BL7.  If people are interested, I would be happy to compare them and share some thoughts.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have sextets of both the flat and T-plate Sylvania 6BL7.  If people are interested, I would be happy to compare them and share some thoughts.



All of my flat plate sylvania 6BL7's tend to have noises.  Several that started out quiet have become noisy on me.  The T plate ones - have had very few problems.  So one wonders if 6BL7 gave up on flat plates in favor of the T plate design?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> All of my flat plate sylvania 6BL7's tend to have noises.  Several that started out quiet have become noisy on me.  The T plate ones - have had very few problems.  So one wonders if 6BL7 gave up on flat plates in favor of the T plate design?



Hmm, can't be sure!  As I recall my set of six flat plates is very quiet, but I have not put many hours on them.  I will move on from my 421As and put them in for at least a week and see, then perhaps compare to the T-plates.


----------



## 2359glenn

I always thought the Sylvania flat plates sounded better.


----------



## whirlwind

Somebody was asking me a while back if I had any Sylvania flat plates for sale....I have found these...thought I had more but can't seem to find them.

I really can't say if they are quiet or not as I have not heard them in ages and I no longer have any adapters to use them.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> I always thought the Sylvania flat plates sounded better.



Agree!  But they are like your #27's - hard to find quiet ones.


----------



## mordy

Just found a new use for the packing material that Glenn uses for the amps:


----------



## L0rdGwyn

This is what I will be listening to for the next several days, a very old Mullard ECC32 and Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plates.  This combination is silent, we'll see if it lasts.  Before putting in the ECC32, I was rolling some 6F8G and 6SN7 I am selling through the GOTL to ensure all is working as expected.  Putting in the ECC32 at the end, the soundstage completely opened up, this tube is so spacious, without a doubt my favorite dual triode.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> This is what I will be listening to for the next several days, a very old Mullard ECC32 and Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plates.  This combination is silent, we'll see if it lasts.  Before putting in the ECC32, I was rolling some 6F8G and 6SN7 I am selling through the GOTL to ensure all is working as expected.  Putting in the ECC32 at the end, the soundstage completely opened up, this tube is so spacious, without a doubt my favorite dual triode.



It's a shame the Philips ECC32 is so rare and expensive these days.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> It's a shame the Philips ECC32 is so rare and expensive these days.



Yeah it sure is, the pairs I have were bought at a discount compared to what they usually go for, I wouldn't pay the prices on see on North American eBay or from UK sellers.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Just found a new use for the packing material that Glenn uses for the amps:



You are a mad scientist , just like Glenn


----------



## whirlwind

UsoppNoKami said:


> TGIF, happy Friday folks!
> 
> 
> 
> PS > I have found that I like my RCA 6BL7 sextet better than Tung Sol 6BL7 tubes. Time to roll Sylvania 6BL7s next week to try another flavour




Really like this pic of the insides of the ECC32


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> You are a mad scientist , just like Glenn


Mad scientist with a developed sense of fashion


----------



## leftside

Some people have asked of my thoughts regarding GEC/Osram B36 metal base vs GEC L63 metal base. Here you go:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/page-3#post-15322885


----------



## chrisdrop

Adapter question. Perhaps one for you @Deyan or probably others know:

Referencing @Zachik handy-dandy spreadsheet: I (as of this week) have a "Dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter". For a 12J5 it lists a "Dual 12J5 to 12SN7 adapter". Given that my amp has a handy 6/12/25v switch, will it work, allowing a 12J5s in the same adapter?


----------



## Deyan

chrisdrop said:


> Adapter question. Perhaps one for you @Deyan or probably others know:
> 
> Referencing @Zachik handy-dandy spreadsheet: I (as of this week) have a "Dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter". For a 12J5 it lists a "Dual 12J5 to 12SN7 adapter". Given that my amp has a handy 6/12/25v switch, will it work, allowing a 12J5s in the same adapter?



Yes it will.


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> Adapter question. Perhaps one for you @Deyan or probably others know:
> 
> Referencing @Zachik handy-dandy spreadsheet: I (as of this week) have a "Dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter". For a 12J5 it lists a "Dual 12J5 to 12SN7 adapter". Given that my amp has a handy 6/12/25v switch, will it work, allowing a 12J5s in the same adapter?



6 or 12 don't matter a adapter only rearranges the pins it don't matter what voltage goes through it.


----------



## whirlwind

Anybody that has the GEL3N amp needs to contact Deyan and get some adapters to try other power tubes.

You can hear EL34/KT66/6V6 ect. - all with the same adapter.  It is quite an eye opening experience and well worth the effort.

I kicked back last night with this combo and the LCD-3 for about a 5 hour blues playlist, I was totally immersed and it was so engaging.




 







When it is time I will send all of these power tubes to you Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Anybody that has the GEL3N amp needs to contact Deyan and get some adapters to try other power tubes.
> 
> You can hear EL34/KT66/6V6 ect. - all with the same adapter.  It is quite an eye opening experience and well worth the effort.
> 
> ...



can I keep them  Just joking  I do have mullard EL34s rebranded as Westinghouse I got for $35 each.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> can I keep them  Just joking  I do have mullard EL34s rebranded as Westinghouse I got for $35 each.




You can keep them as long as you would like to listen


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 23, 2019)

There isn't a thread, so I'm just going to post here for now, but I put a down payment on an interesting DAC.  I will be getting a "DAC II Special" from the maker SW1X Audio Design in the UK.  To say that I am excited is a massive understatement.

The creator, Slawa Roschkow, specializes in NOS R2R designs that are tube-rectified, tube output, no op-amps, minimal use of transistors.  He also implements a USB to SPDIF converter with a tube master clock.  The particular model I am getting also allows you to roll transistors in the I/U conversion stage.  The only other person on Head-Fi I know of who owns one of Slawa's DACs is our host.  Talking with Slawa, Glenn, as well as reading testimonials convinced me this is the right fit.  I'll likely make a thread when it arrives, but it will be some time before it is completed.

http://sw1xad.co.uk/


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> There isn't a thread, so I'm just going to post here for now, but I put a down payment on an interesting DAC.  I will be getting a "DAC II Special" from the maker SW1X Audio Design in the UK.  To say that I am excited is a massive understatement.
> 
> The creator, Slawa Roschkow, specializes in NOS R2R designs that are tube-rectified, tube output, no op-amps, minimal use of transistors.  He also implements a USB to SPDIF converter with a tube master clock.  The particular model I am getting also allows you to roll transistors in the I/U conversion stage.  The only other person on Head-Fi I know of who owns one of Slawa's DACs is our host.  Talking with Slawa, Glenn, as well as reading testimonials convinced me this is the right fit.  I'll likely make a thread when it arrives, but it will be some time before it is completed.
> 
> http://sw1xad.co.uk/



Very interesting. They are just over an hour away. I will be watching progress


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> Very interesting. They are just over an hour away. I will be watching progress



I'll start a thread and link impressions here.  It will have a GZ34 rectifier, which means I have a very expensive tube purchase in my near future  also 5687/E182CC output buffer.

Here's a picture of the circuit, mine may have some slight component differences.  From my reading, they are viewed as an up-and-comer in the high-end DAC market.  Impressions I have read from lifelong audiophiles have been overwhelmingly positive.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> I'll start a thread and link impressions here.  It will have a GZ34 rectifier, which means I have a very expensive tube purchase in my near future  also 5687/E182CC output buffer.
> 
> Here's a picture of the circuit, mine may have some slight component differences.  From my reading, they are viewed as an up-and-comer in the high-end DAC market.  Impressions I have read from lifelong audiophiles have been overwhelmingly positive.


Nice AudioNote capacitors you got there sweetie..


----------



## chrisdrop

Today, I have been listening happily for most of the day. Rare luck. I have been trying to put hours on new 6J5s from earlier this week. I had the past few days and the morning with those and 6x 6BL7s. 

This afternoon, I swapped to 4x 6080s and kept the GECs. Everything was sounding especially wide-stage and subtle. 

Slightly off-thread, but then I swapped pads on my Verite Closeds. For the past week I had the Hybrid pads going. After a few hours acclimatising to the tube setup this afternoon, I went back to the Auteur pads. These make the VCs sound even more like a fantastic _open_ headphone, with the whole setup; _I can't believe how wide and lovely the whole thing is presently. _

_This musing brought to you by: _

Glenn:

 

Zach:

 

https://tidal.com/browse/track/114155404 


and

https://tidal.com/browse/track/114400644


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> When it is time I will send all of these power tubes to you Glenn.





2359glenn said:


> can I keep them Just joking I do have mullard EL34s rebranded as Westinghouse I got for $35 each.



Glenn - I was gonna surprise you, but screw that:
I am going to send you a pair of EL34s as a Christmas gift 
Since you got Mullards, I will get something of a different "flavor" for you. Just because


----------



## leftside

chrisdrop said:


> Today, I have been listening happily for most of the day. Rare luck. I have been trying to put hours on new 6J5s from earlier this week. I had the past few days and the morning with those and 6x 6BL7s.
> 
> This afternoon, I swapped to 4x 6080s and kept the GECs. Everything was sounding especially wide-stage and subtle.


I'm going to try the same combo this evening. What are the date codes on the rear of those L63? I'll see if they are the same as I have. I'll be comparing to the metal base version. I'll also try the 6080 tubes for the first time in the new amp: Mullard and GEC.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> There isn't a thread, so I'm just going to post here for now, but I put a down payment on an interesting DAC.  I will be getting a "DAC II Special" from the maker SW1X Audio Design in the UK.  To say that I am excited is a massive understatement.
> 
> The creator, Slawa Roschkow, specializes in NOS R2R designs that are tube-rectified, tube output, no op-amps, minimal use of transistors.  He also implements a USB to SPDIF converter with a tube master clock.  The particular model I am getting also allows you to roll transistors in the I/U conversion stage.  The only other person on Head-Fi I know of who owns one of Slawa's DACs is our host.  Talking with Slawa, Glenn, as well as reading testimonials convinced me this is the right fit.  I'll likely make a thread when it arrives, but it will be some time before it is completed.
> 
> http://sw1xad.co.uk/


Can't wait to hear your thoughts on that beauty! How are you going to connect a digital source/transport to the DAC? I don't see a USB input.


----------



## chrisdrop

leftside said:


> I'm going to try the same combo this evening. What are the date codes on the rear of those L63? I'll see if they are the same as I have. I'll be comparing to the metal base version. I'll also try the 6080 tubes for the first time in the new amp: Mullard and GEC.



Here is the back:

 

You probably know what those date codes mean, I don't. Do tell 

I was browsing for other 6080s today given the level of enjoyment. I think Bendix are favs, but seem to be unicorn like. I'd love some GEC 6AS7Gs, also not falling out trees either it seems. Other 6080 recommends welcome.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Can't wait to hear your thoughts on that beauty! How are you going to connect a digital source/transport to the DAC? I don't see a USB input.



I used to have a vintage R2R DAC that didnt have a USB input. I used a Schiit Eitr. Im guessing something similar would be used here. The only downside to that is I believe the bitrate is capped lower than a normal USB DAC.


----------



## Monsterzero

chrisdrop said:


> Here is the back:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 You may want to reach out to @rosgr63 . He still may have a pair of Bendix 6080s available. Great guy too.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> Can't wait to hear your thoughts on that beauty! How are you going to connect a digital source/transport to the DAC? I don't see a USB input.



So he includes coaxial SPDIF and AES/EBU XLR inputs by default, his SPDIF to USB converter with the tube master clock is an add-on, an additional board inside the chassis, which I am including.


----------



## leftside

chrisdrop said:


> Here is the back:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well those date codes have me stumped. "Z" would imply 1969, but I'm pretty sure they didn't make those tubes that late. Perhaps @gibosi knows. I'm not sure what those numbers represent. Perhaps yours are prior to 1945, and no one seems to properly understand the date codes used back then. 

I also have the Bendix, but haven't pulled those out with the new amp yet. Saving them for the "heavy hitter" bake off sometime next week against the WE 421 and GEC 6AS7G. Been more than happy with the TungSol 7236 the last couple of nights.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Well those date codes have me stumped. "Z" would imply 1969, but I'm pretty sure they didn't make those tubes that late. Perhaps @gibosi knows. I'm not sure what those numbers represent. Perhaps yours are prior to 1945, and no one seems to properly understand the date codes used back then.
> 
> I also have the Bendix, but haven't pulled those out with the new amp yet. Saving them for the "heavy hitter" bake off sometime next week against the WE 421 and GEC 6AS7G. Been more than happy with the TungSol 7236 the last couple of nights.



The "Z" to the right of the arrow indicates the M-O Valve factory at Hammersmith. I believe that "ZA 4138" is a British inventory number, but I don't have access to to my references at this moment, so can't be sure....


----------



## Monsterzero

I realize that tube recs are hard,with various combos and the amp itself playing a huge part in how a tube may sound. That being said,theyre are universal great tubes that most can agree upon.

So,does anyone in here have recs on good sounding 12ax7s that do not cost an arm and leg? Im trying to compliment my Telefunken 12au7,which sits in the "driver" seat. According to Rogue Audio the spot where the Tele sits has the most impact on the sound,with an arbitrary 60% figure.

My initial thought for a pair of 12ax7s was either some clear top RCAs,or Mullards,but im not sure that warm is the way to go. I certainly do not want more Telefunkens in there as that might be too bright. so perhaps something in the middle,with a little sparkle up top,good separation and nice mids. 

Any suggestions? I need a pair.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Can't wait to hear your thoughts on that beauty! How are you going to connect a digital source/transport to the DAC? I don't see a USB input.



The input is SPDIF and he has a tube USB to SPDIF converter.  The newer DAC can be bought with that built in.
The older one sounds pretty good to me but has the separate USB to SPDIF converter and is only 230 volt.


----------



## leftside (Nov 23, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> I realize that tube recs are hard,with various combos and the amp itself playing a huge part in how a tube may sound. That being said,theyre are universal great tubes that most can agree upon.
> 
> So,does anyone in here have recs on good sounding 12ax7s that do not cost an arm and leg? Im trying to compliment my Telefunken 12au7,which sits in the "driver" seat. According to Rogue Audio the spot where the Tele sits has the most impact on the sound,with an arbitrary 60% figure.
> 
> ...


The best Mullards cost an arm and a leg. The RCA are great though. See if you can find the late 40's with D getter and long black plates. These should compliment the Tele's quite nicely. The RCA are definitely on the warmer side. I consider 1960's Mullards also to be on the warmer side. The mid-1950's (the "arm and a leg ones") I find more neutral/revealing with only a hint of warmth. Early Valvo and Amperex are also meant to be very good, but again earliest = "arm and a leg". Brent Jessee gives a great description of these tubes and variations on his site.
http://www.audiotubes.com/12ax7.htm

I have some RCA 5751 triple mica, long black plate arriving next week. 5 pack NOS/NIB with RCA 5 pack holder from another guy in Canada. From Brent's site:
*"5751:* This version was usually the one made for the US military. These have a lower gain than the 12AX7, but are otherwise totally compatible. Great hi-fi tubes, as the lower gain reduces noise and microphonics. These are all ruggedized and most can withstand a drop on the floor. The internal triode elements are matched as well. The early versions are more sought after as they usually have extra support rods and an extra mica spacer on top of the plate structure ("Triple Mica"), as well as blackplates, all said to contribute to low microphonics. Don't overlook the greyplate versions, they are also excellent tubes, and many of these have the triple mica as well. The GE non-military version is usually the "five star" series, intended for broadcast use. The RCA broadcast type is the "Command" series. Both the RCA and GE broadcast types are scarce, as are any of the triple mica types."

I also run the Raytheon 5751 windmill getter in the line stage of my preamp, which I like a lot. Not exactly "cheap", but about half the price of some of the other so called "top tier" European tubes.

I run 1960's Telefunken 12ax7 in the phono stage.

As you can see from above, the 12ax7 tube rabbit hole is about the deepest tube rabbit hole out there


----------



## dminches

Monsterzero said:


> I realize that tube recs are hard,with various combos and the amp itself playing a huge part in how a tube may sound. That being said,theyre are universal great tubes that most can agree upon.
> 
> So,does anyone in here have recs on good sounding 12ax7s that do not cost an arm and leg? Im trying to compliment my Telefunken 12au7,which sits in the "driver" seat. According to Rogue Audio the spot where the Tele sits has the most impact on the sound,with an arbitrary 60% figure.
> 
> ...



I would get a pair of Mullard CV4004s.  They sound great and aren't too warm.  Another option would be a pair of 5751s.  They have a lower mu so I would make sure they are ok.  Here is a nice pair.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-nos-rayt...777302?hash=item23c65c0f16:g:ng8AAOSwEMxdhc1Q


----------



## gibosi

gibosi said:


> The "Z" to the right of the arrow indicates the M-O Valve factory at Hammersmith. I believe that "ZA 4138" is a British inventory number, but I don't have access to to my references at this moment, so can't be sure....



Checked my references, and yes, "ZA4138" was the old British Government Stores number for the 6J5G / CV1932.

https://frank.pocnet.net/other/ServiceTypes/OldStores.html


----------



## rnros (Nov 23, 2019)

gibosi said:


> The "Z" to the right of the arrow indicates the M-O Valve factory at Hammersmith. I believe that "ZA 4138" is a British inventory number, but I don't have access to to my references at this moment, so can't be sure....



Yes, ZA XXXX is the British “Old Store Reference Number” used by the Army prior to the 1944 CV Standard.
The same tube may have the RAF 10E/XXX number, or both will be used along with the civilian designation.
In addition to these old store numbers each military branch had their own separate classification number.






Edit: Hi G, missed your last post, I’ll check your link, thanks.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Here is the back:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi chrisdrop,
Did you look carefully on those GEC L63 tubes for other markings? Maybe the boxes have information (if available)?

Re low priced recommendations for 6080 tubes: RCA 6080 and Sylvania 6080 are inexpensive and good sounding. Re the Bendix graphite plates you can sometimes found graphite plate 6080WB tubes rebranded or made by Raytheon for much less.
It is easy to spot the graphite plates. I believe that most graphite plate 6080 tubes come with the WB (and perhaps some with the WC) designation.
Here is a Raytheon graphite slotted plate that sold a couple of weeks ago for $39 (it looks like a Bendix):




https://www.ebay.com/itm/Single-One...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

If you look at the pictures the gray graphite plates and ceramic mica spacers and thick metal brackets holding them are very distinctive, but there are regular plate 6080WB tubes that have such type metal brackets as well, so look carefully. The graphite plates come is several different varieties as well. The slotted ones are supposedly the best, but I don't have personal experience with them.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> There isn't a thread, so I'm just going to post here for now, but I put a down payment on an interesting DAC.  I will be getting a "DAC II Special" from the maker SW1X Audio Design in the UK.  To say that I am excited is a massive understatement.
> 
> The creator, Slawa Roschkow, specializes in NOS R2R designs that are tube-rectified, tube output, no op-amps, minimal use of transistors.  He also implements a USB to SPDIF converter with a tube master clock.  The particular model I am getting also allows you to roll transistors in the I/U conversion stage.  The only other person on Head-Fi I know of who owns one of Slawa's DACs is our host.  Talking with Slawa, Glenn, as well as reading testimonials convinced me this is the right fit.  I'll likely make a thread when it arrives, but it will be some time before it is completed.
> 
> http://sw1xad.co.uk/


Roon, TIDAL, I2s................


----------



## leftside

Looks like @chrisdrop has got himself some very rare pre 1945 GEC L63 tubes. Nice


----------



## chrisdrop

leftside said:


> Looks like @chrisdrop has got himself some very rare pre 1945 GEC L63 tubes. Nice



I have always said that hard work, diligence, and commitment are critically important ...
... and that most often when good things happen to me - it is luck  - which I will gladly take when I can get it!

@gibosi I hadn't seen that page on pocnet, tx.

Been listening in the pre-dawn hours already and the present setup is still lovely. Today I will not be rolling. I will however finish soldering some mini-xlr connectors onto my next headphone cable...


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 24, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi chrisdrop,
> Did you look carefully on those GEC L63 tubes for other markings? Maybe the boxes have information (if available)?
> 
> Re low priced recommendations for 6080 tubes: RCA 6080 and Sylvania 6080 are inexpensive and good sounding. Re the Bendix graphite plates you can sometimes found graphite plate 6080WB tubes rebranded or made by Raytheon for much less.
> ...




I have tried a few of these rebranded and loved them all.   I only use two tube power set-ups and these tubes deliver with authority
I basically only run two tube set-ups on my GOTL and these are some of my favorite tubes and built to take a licking and keep on ticking.

I did get a set from @rosgr63 that has pretty much stayed in my GOTL for a long time now....love them with  ECC31/32/ Atticus
These are my favorite 6080 tubes


----------



## Monsterzero

Anyone have an idea as to who made these?


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Anyone have an idea as to who made these?


The most likely manufacturer is Sylvania.


----------



## DecentLevi

carlman14 said:


> You know what the worst (and best) part of waiting for a Glenn amp is? Every month that goes by, I think, "hmm, maybe I want X upgrade too. Oooh, might as well get Y upgrade as well". So the longer I wait, the more expensive my GOTL is getting! It's gone from $1300, to $1500, to $1600, and now I'm debating whether or not I want to go full Yamamoto sockets. Send help.


How ironic! Another (upcoming) Glenn amp owner also in Seattle (correct me if I'm wrong). I would be interested to see how the sound of your GOTL compares to my upcoming GOTC (custom transformer-coupled SET OTL) amp. Curious when is the general timeframe for your amp?

I was told around Christmas time for my amp. @2359glenn that would be cool to know how the general timeframe is lookin'? (Feel free to reply by PM instead). Sooner is better but take care of yourself first.


----------



## DecentLevi

Gopher said:


> I'm very glad to read of your early impressions of the cable.  Keep burning it in, things are going to continue to improve over the next hundred hours or so.
> 
> I may be able to organize a tour like i did with the Amber, but will need at least a couple of weeks before I'm ready for that as we're trying to keep up with the holiday demand.
> 
> ...


Count me in for the USB cable tour, if possible. I'm not (yet) a believer in USB cable differences, but that must have been what I said about RCA cables a long time back, LOL. Are those also made / distributed by Lampizator?

Also a burning question I've had about the Amber 3. Which DAC chip does it use, and are there multiples in parallel? And how would one characterize the sound vs. An R2R DAC? Because that has been my ideal preference for an analogue lifelike sound - but it still needs to do rhythm / PRaT well. A little off-topic so feel free to quote me on the appropriate thread for it.


----------



## Monsterzero

DecentLevi said:


> Count me in for the USB cable tour, if possible. I'm not (yet) a believer in USB cable differences, but that must have been what I said about RCA cables a long time back, LOL. Are those also made / distributed by Lampizator?


 No. Theyre made by Final Touch Audio, though many Lampi owners use it,and I can hear why. 

I got the text tonight unfortunately,and Fred needs his cable back,so I pulled it and re-inserted my other USB cables. Everything sounds congested in comparison. Theres so much more separation and space in between the instruments with the Callisto. 

To clarify my previous comments about the midbass being less pronounced...Its not the Callisto. The midbass is still not as powerful as prior with my old USB cables in place,so now my focus is on my new RCA cables. Fortunately for me I received a box of cables to check out from Atelier 1 down in Nashville. Three different RCAs,a power cable that costs a kidney,and a new gizmo that is intended to replace power conditioners(also comes with a kidney price tag).
The next two weeks I will be rolling various cables and listening for improvements,or otherwise.
Constantin is a great,gregarious guy. I even convinced him to buy some Sextetts 
Frankly I would never have spent triple digits on a damn USB cable,but getting the chance to plug it into my system and hear for myself what comes with the price has made me a believer.






DecentLevi said:


> Also a burning question I've had about the Amber 3. Which DAC chip does it use, and are there multiples in parallel? And how would one characterize the sound vs. An R2R DAC? Because that has been my ideal preference for an analogue lifelike sound - but it still needs to do rhythm / PRaT well. A little off-topic so feel free to quote me on the appropriate thread for it.



I havent heard the Amber 3 personally,even though I helped get the tour going,but my TRP vs. an R2R is no contest. Again more air,space,wider staging,better PRaT,smoother,simply better everything. My previous R2R DAC was the airiest,cleanest,brightest,best R2R DAC I've heard,but in comparison to the TRP it sounds muffled and congested. Gopher maintains the Amber can hold its own vs. the TRP,so take that for what its worth.


----------



## carlman14

DecentLevi said:


> How ironic! Another (upcoming) Glenn amp owner also in Seattle (correct me if I'm wrong). I would be interested to see how the sound of your GOTL compares to my upcoming GOTC (custom transformer-coupled SET OTL) amp. Curious when is the general timeframe for your amp?
> 
> I was told around Christmas time for my amp. @2359glenn that would be cool to know how the general timeframe is lookin'? (Feel free to reply by PM instead). Sooner is better but take care of yourself first.



Another Seattleite waiting on a glenn amp? What are the odds. I would be curious about a comparison too. I wouldn't mind doing a mini meetup with you once we both have our glenn amps! Originally I was told fall of this year, but was recently told it will be a bit later than that. No specifics were given. Waiting is killing me but that's ok. Can't rush the master.


----------



## Xcalibur255

leftside said:


> The best Mullards cost an arm and a leg. The RCA are great though. See if you can find the late 40's with D getter and long black plates. These should compliment the Tele's quite nicely. The RCA are definitely on the warmer side. I consider 1960's Mullards also to be on the warmer side. The mid-1950's (the "arm and a leg ones") I find more neutral/revealing with only a hint of warmth. Early Valvo and Amperex are also meant to be very good, but again earliest = "arm and a leg". Brent Jessee gives a great description of these tubes and variations on his site.
> http://www.audiotubes.com/12ax7.htm
> 
> I have some RCA 5751 triple mica, long black plate arriving next week. 5 pack NOS/NIB with RCA 5 pack holder from another guy in Canada. From Brent's site:
> ...



I hunted down a true NOS pair of Sylvania Gold Brand 5751 for my Luxman.  It was a MASSIVE improvement over the stock JJs.  I was going to get some Raytheon windmills too but I'm so happy with the GBs I just called it a day right then and there on the subject.

Now if only I could try a different set of EL84s.  Every time I try the amp red plates the new tubes, but when the stock JJs are in the thing runs fine.


----------



## whirlwind

I had a Sylvania 5751 triple mica black plate that was my favorite tube in my MadEar+HD

I miss that amp, but you can't keep them all.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Finally got rid of those annoying XLR inputs, switched them out for some very nice RCA jacks today.  I replaced the entire back panel, IEC inlet, cut new holes for the mutlivolt switch, RCA jacks, along with new tapped screw holes for the filament rectifier (was happy to redo this since I made a cosmetic mistake last time).  Overall, a great success!  Not a dramatic change in sound obviously, but it looks nice and I don't have to use XLR to RCA adapters!


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Finally got rid of those annoying XLR inputs, switched them out for some very nice RCA jacks today.  I replaced the entire back panel, IEC inlet, cut new holes for the mutlivolt switch, RCA jacks, along with new tapped screw holes for the filament rectifier (was happy to redo this since I made a cosmetic mistake last time).  Overall, a great success!  Not a dramatic change in sound obviously, but it looks nice and I don't have to use XLR to RCA adapters!


 Just so you know Keenan,im highly impressed! Well done!


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 25, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> 6 pack of GAS7G/6080:
> 
> I bought the Triad 20 amp 6.3 volt transformer (again) and am awaiting parts needed to make a wooden box that will be the same depth as the GOTL.  Going to "dock" the box to the right of the GOTL and power the 6x power tube heaters via the external transformer.  Have it jerry-rigged now to heat 2x power tubes and have been enjoying 4x 6080 and 2x GEC 6AS7G ( generously on loan to me from @GDuss ).
> 
> ...


That seems interesting. Why are you setting up to externally heat tubes with the GOTL - just to reduce transformer temperature, or to try special or larger combinations that were not otherwise possible?

Being a long time user of your first Triad 20ah externally heated transfo. on my Euforia, I'll point out a few things. Do remember transfo. burn in takes a long time (even after you gave it to me) and the sound can improve much after... say 200 hours perhaps, otherwise it may sound thin. Also although I'm satisfied with the 6x adapter board from Ms. Xuling, I would advise going with something of higher quality materials. Its' PCB does seems to use some sort of silver conductor, however I'm pretty sure she uses brass pins and copper sockets. Someone on the Euforia thread reported noticeable improvement from quality of conductors of an adapter, and especially when you're using that many tubes and on such a resolving amp as a GOTL, quality conductors will be more advantageous / noticeable.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Just so you know Keenan,im highly impressed! Well done!



Thanks!  Much appreciated  I almost passed on this amp, so happy I didn't and I've been able to make it my own, gotta keep these idle hands busy.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Finally got rid of those annoying XLR inputs, switched them out for some very nice RCA jacks today.  I replaced the entire back panel, IEC inlet, cut new holes for the mutlivolt switch, RCA jacks, along with new tapped screw holes for the filament rectifier (was happy to redo this since I made a cosmetic mistake last time).  Overall, a great success!  Not a dramatic change in sound obviously, but it looks nice and I don't have to use XLR to RCA adapters!



Nice job


----------



## mordy

Having fun combing through the eBay bargain bins for ugly little black metal tubes in the 6C5 and 6J5 families. Some of them are rusty or the black paint is flaking off here and there. If you buy them in small lots the cost usually is less than $2-3 each shipped.

As bad as these tubes look, that's how good they sound. I would not be surprised if I end up liking these better than their straight glass and Shoulder Type glass counterparts.

Here is an example of an _unrestored_ Sylvania 6J5 tube. It must be quite old because it has the flashing S symbol on a green oak leaf.






Not sure how to date it - S I probably doesn't mean Staten Island, NYC since I don't think they had a factory there. Some tubes used the word O-P-U-S to designate the quarter of the year. S would then mean the 4th quarter.
"I" could mean 1951 - not sure of these assumptions.
On the other hand there are clearly the letters DL printed on the tube. Cannot find any chart that has those letters - maybe this tube came from DL's (Decent Levi) collection, but how did it end up in Council Bluffs, IA, where the seller resides?
You have to give credit to these tubes - they do not need too much packing material - the lot of six tubes was shipped together in a plastic sandwich bag packed inside a thin breakfast crackers box with some newspaper wrap.
BTW, the seller states that he has 20,000 tubes sitting in a locker - only a few are listed so far.
Another adventurous tube rolling day .....


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Finally got rid of those annoying XLR inputs, switched them out for some very nice RCA jacks today.  I replaced the entire back panel, IEC inlet, cut new holes for the mutlivolt switch, RCA jacks, along with new tapped screw holes for the filament rectifier (was happy to redo this since I made a cosmetic mistake last time).  Overall, a great success!  Not a dramatic change in sound obviously, but it looks nice and I don't have to use XLR to RCA adapters!


Hi LG,
Very impressive work! - my GOTL has two sets of RCA plugs; line in and preamp out.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Finally got rid of those annoying XLR inputs, switched them out for some very nice RCA jacks today.  I replaced the entire back panel, IEC inlet, cut new holes for the mutlivolt switch, RCA jacks, along with new tapped screw holes for the filament rectifier (was happy to redo this since I made a cosmetic mistake last time).  Overall, a great success!  Not a dramatic change in sound obviously, but it looks nice and I don't have to use XLR to RCA adapters!



I agree!  Well done, indeed!!!


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Having fun combing through the eBay bargain bins for ugly little black metal tubes in the 6C5 and 6J5 families. Some of them are rusty or the black paint is flaking off here and there. If you buy them in small lots the cost usually is less than $2-3 each shipped.
> 
> As bad as these tubes look, that's how good they sound. I would not be surprised if I end up liking these better than their straight glass and Shoulder Type glass counterparts.
> 
> ...



Interestingly, "6J5 S1" stamped in the base corresponds to an RCA date code indicating January, 1957. And even more interesting, "DL" in the Sylvania two-letter system indicates November, 1957. So sometime in 1957, but we can't be any more precise. And I wonder... do your ears tell you this is an RCA? Or a Sylvania?


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Finally got rid of those annoying XLR inputs, switched them out for some very nice RCA jacks today.  I replaced the entire back panel, IEC inlet, cut new holes for the mutlivolt switch, RCA jacks, along with new tapped screw holes for the filament rectifier (was happy to redo this since I made a cosmetic mistake last time).  Overall, a great success!  Not a dramatic change in sound obviously, but it looks nice and I don't have to use XLR to RCA adapters!




Great work Keenan


----------



## whirlwind

I have just discovered this fellow and thought that I would leave this hear for those interested in this sort of stuff.
Listening with GOTL   6080 Bendix/ECC33/ZMF Atticus


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Interestingly, "6J5 S1" stamped in the base corresponds to an RCA date code indicating January, 1957. And even more interesting, "DL" in the Sylvania two-letter system indicates November, 1957. So sometime in 1957, but we can't be any more precise. And I wonder... do your ears tell you this is an RCA? Or a Sylvania?


Hi gibosi,
Did not think of cross checking if this is a relabeled RCA tube for two reasons: Based on my readings, I was under the impression that the metal tubes were fazed out in the late 40's since the glass tubes were cheaper to manufacture.
Secondly, the green oak leaf Sylvania logo appears on older tubes and it is my impression that they did not use it in the mid 50's but I may be wrong  regarding that.
In the same lot were two Tung Sol tubes with a date code of 5652 which would indicate December 1956. One of them has a code 3Y stamped in the base edge and the other Y3; the latter codes possibly indicating either month in a two month period.
So here is my conspiracy theory: These tubes are older production, and labeled/relabeled by the date of sale. But maybe not....and mid 50's production? The stamped letters SI look different than the stamped letters 6J5 on the Syl/RCA tube.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> Did not think of cross checking if this is a relabeled RCA tube for two reasons: Based on my readings, I was under the impression that the metal tubes were fazed out in the late 40's since the glass tubes were cheaper to manufacture.
> Secondly, the green oak leaf Sylvania logo appears on older tubes and it is my impression that they did not use it in the mid 50's but I may be wrong  regarding that.
> In the same lot were two Tung Sol tubes with a date code of 5652 which would indicate December 1956. One of them has a code 3Y stamped in the base edge and the other Y3; the latter codes possibly indicating either month in a two month period.
> So here is my conspiracy theory: These tubes are older production, and labeled/relabeled by the date of sale. But maybe not....and mid 50's production? The stamped letters SI look different than the stamped letters 6J5 on the Syl/RCA tube.



"Y3" and "3Y" stamped in the base corresponds to the RCA date code indicating 1956. And as you surmise, Y3 indicates May, 1956, and 3Y indicates June, 1956. And the date code 5652 indicates that Tung-Sol packaged this tube in December, 1956. Also, there is considerable evidence that RCA continued to manufacture metal tubes using this dating system at it's Harrison factory until at least 1968.


----------



## GDuss

gibosi said:


> "Y3" and "3Y" stamped in the base corresponds to the RCA date code indicating 1956. And as you surmise, Y3 indicates May, 1956, and 3Y indicates June, 1956. And the date code 5652 indicates that Tung-Sol packaged this tube in December, 1956. Also, there is considerable evidence that RCA continued to manufacture metal tubes using this dating system at it's Harrison factory until at least 1968.



The tube-identification knowledge of all of you experts is amazing.  I have a question related to RCA 6J5s and their age.  Does the design of the RCA logo have any meaning in terms of when it was manufactured?  I am under the impression that the one on the right in this link is an older-style logo and the one on the left is a newer logo, but I could be totally wrong.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Pai...022026?hash=item288977ce4a:g:bZgAAOSw~bld2Y-w


----------



## gibosi

I don't really have all that much "tube-identification knowledge". I just know where to look. 

Yes, the one on the right, with the "meatball" logo is the oldest. "K1E" indicates Jan/Feb, 1943. The one on the left, with the stylized silver letters "R C A", is later. "LM" indicates Sep, 1959.


----------



## chrisdrop

I just had a material reduction in my noise floor. Putting the amp on something squishy removed noise - presumably; transformer ->  tubes. This has made my day. Some sort of isolation feet are in my future. I can't believe how stark the difference is... 

On a less Glenn amp related note, I am happy to report more positive "cable flogging"; As recommended to me by keen cable DIYers; Neotech UP-OCC copper headphone cable is proving a step up from stock cabling and also from my Forza Hybrid (copper/ silver). Solidly recognisable. 

And finally, a few more 6J5 pics. Not used yet. Still enjoying current setup too much!


----------



## OctavianH

Question related to the KT66/KT88: why on the GOTL compatibility table these are marked as "non compatible"? 
The voltages and currents seem in line and these are really kicking ass on the F.A. amps.


----------



## GDuss

gibosi said:


> I don't really have all that much "tube-identification knowledge". I just know where to look.
> 
> Yes, the one on the right, with the "meatball" logo is the oldest. "K1E" indicates Jan/Feb, 1943. The one on the left, with the stylized silver letters "R C A", is later. "LM" indicates Sep, 1959.



Knowing where to look is important knowledge.

And this is what I thought about the logos.  On RCA tubes with the circle logo where I have been able to identify the date (or the seller has), they are commonly 40's.  On tubes with the text RCA logo where I knew the dates, these have commonly been 50's.  I've also seen the term "meatball" used and I assumed it was referring to this circle logo but that had never really been clear to me.  Thanks for this information.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> I just had a material reduction in my noise floor. Putting the amp on something squishy removed noise - presumably; transformer ->  tubes. This has made my day. Some sort of isolation feet are in my future. I can't believe how stark the difference is...
> 
> On a less Glenn amp related note, I am happy to report more positive "cable flogging"; As recommended to me by keen cable DIYers; Neotech UP-OCC copper headphone cable is proving a step up from stock cabling and also from my Forza Hybrid (copper/ silver). Solidly recognisable.
> 
> And finally, a few more 6J5 pics. Not used yet. Still enjoying current setup too much!



I see one of these in your future


----------



## chrisdrop

GDuss said:


> I see one of these in your future



Looks like a mag-lev butcher block 

My kitchen onion dicing will NEVER interfere with my listening again!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 26, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> Question related to the KT66/KT88: why on the GOTL compatibility table these are marked as "non compatible"?
> The voltages and currents seem in line and these are really kicking ass on the F.A. amps.



Generally these tubes are not used in OTL amplifiers because they have high plate resistance, meaning they will have a high output impedance without an output transformer, and therefore, a very low damping factor = distortion.  I don't know much about the FA OTL topologies, so no idea what the output impedance would be with these tubes in those amps, but it's probably pretty darn high.  If they employ negative feedback, could drop the output impedance down to a usable range with high-impedance headphones maybe?  Glenn might know more about those amps.

The reason you see 6AS7G, 6080, etc. used so often in OTL amplifiers is because they have a relatively high plate current with low plate resistance, leading to a lower output impedance without the need for a transformer (with a sufficiently high resistance load).


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Looks like a mag-lev butcher block
> 
> My kitchen onion dicing will NEVER interfere with my listening again!



Well multitasking right?

It's a vibration-isolation table and what is not shown are the air tanks used to pressurize the tabletop so that it floats on an air cushion.  You can usually get these for about 4-6K (US), so you'd have to decide between one of those or a few more Glenn amps .


----------



## 2359glenn

OctavianH said:


> Question related to the KT66/KT88: why on the GOTL compatibility table these are marked as "non compatible"?
> The voltages and currents seem in line and these are really kicking ass on the F.A. amps.



The main reason they will not work is. In FA amps the two half's of the 6AS7 are tied together in parallel and wired as a cathode follower.
In my amp the two half's of the 6AS7 are separate and not a cathode follower. Run as SEPP 
  To use these tubes a special adapter would have to be made Each KT88 wired as a triode would be hooked to each side of the 6AS7 socket.
  And there internal impedance is to high to get good sound in a OTL without a output transformer. The bass would be bloated and not tight
might sound like lots of bass but not good bass.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 26, 2019)

Hosting Thanksgiving this year, put up a miniature Christmas tree, best spot happened to be next to my desk, which means...

Holiday-themed GOTL photos 

If you ever put out a holiday shopping catalog Glenn, I can be your photographer.


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 26, 2019)

Cute Christmas tree, and you must be getting a nice mist of fresh air from it at your amp, unless it's a fake one?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

DecentLevi said:


> Cute Christmas tree, and you must be getting a nice mist of fresh from it at your amp, unless it's a fake one?



Hey thanks!!  It's a real one, pretty subtle smell but refreshing  I guess I should be listening to Christmas music


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Interestingly, "6J5 S1" stamped in the base corresponds to an RCA date code indicating January, 1957. And even more interesting, "DL" in the Sylvania two-letter system indicates November, 1957. So sometime in 1957, but we can't be any more precise. And I wonder... do your ears tell you this is an RCA? Or a Sylvania?


Hi gibosi,
Thanks for identifying the dates. I am getting a little confused because it looks like some of my Tung Sol and Sylvania 6J5 tubes were all made by RCA.
I have an additional 4 TS 6J5 tubes with the following codes:
322 4 03-3                                                       322 is the EIA code for Tung Sol; January 1944? The last digit 3 is a factory code
1H    322KM3                                                   ?   
K3    322DW3                                                   ?   
V3    322MH3                                                    ?       
and then a Ken-Rad with the code
H7                                                                      ?

Can't get a handle on these.....


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> Thanks for identifying the dates. I am getting a little confused because it looks like some of my Tung Sol and Sylvania 6J5 tubes were all made by RCA.
> I have an additional 4 TS 6J5 tubes with the following codes:
> 322 4 03-3                                                       322 is the EIA code for Tung Sol; January 1944? The last digit 3 is a factory code
> ...



I'm currently listening to a pair of TS 6J5s with codes 322NR3 and 322DT3.  They sound great (with TS 5998s as powers) but there is a bit of a hum that's audible when the music gets quiet.  Totally workable though.


----------



## mordy

Did you try with a jumper connecting pins 1&8?


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Did you try with a jumper connecting pins 1&8?



I'm way behind on my list of experiments (that list keeps getting longer), and that jumper experiment is coming up soon.  The first time I listened to those TS tubes was with 6x 6BL7 and the hum was more prominent.  So what I was trying was whether it was less of a problem with 2x 5998, and it is less (presumably the lower amplification of the 5998 helps).  I still have 2 pair of 6C5 tubes to try and the jumper will be part of that experiment.  Science can be painfully slow sometimes .


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> Thanks for identifying the dates. I am getting a little confused because it looks like some of my Tung Sol and Sylvania 6J5 tubes were all made by RCA.
> I have an additional 4 TS 6J5 tubes with the following codes:
> 322 4 03-3                                                       322 is the EIA code for Tung Sol; January 1944? The last digit 3 is a factory code
> ...



> 322 4 03-3 322 is the EIA code for Tung Sol; January 1944? The last digit 3 is a factory code

I would guess 1954. I don't think I have seen the factory code "3" on 1940's production....

> 1H 322KM3 ?

"1H" makes no sense as an RCA number.... KM (Tung-Sol) is April, 1961

> K3 322DW3 ?

"K3" corresponds to the RCA code for May/June 1958. And my best guess is DW (Tung-Sol) is 1958/1959...

> V3 322MH3 ?

As an RCA code, "V3" corresponds to 1945.... As a KR code, July, 1944...  But MH (Tung-Sol) is Feb, 1962...  I would tend to believe the Tung-Sol code as they didn't use two-letter codes in the 1940's.

> and then a Ken-Rad with the code H7 ?

H7 indicates October, 1938. But if KR did manufacture this tube, I would also expect to see "13" stamped into the base, indicating "6N7".


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> > 322 4 03-3 322 is the EIA code for Tung Sol; January 1944? The last digit 3 is a factory code
> 
> I would guess 1954. I don't think I have seen the factory code "3" on 1940's production....
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detective work. Where can I find a chart of the Tung Sol two letter codes?
I do have Ken-Rad 6N7 tubes with the number 13 stamped in the metal, but this is a 6J5 tube. Will try to post a picture later.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Thanks for the detective work. Where can I find a chart of the Tung Sol two letter codes?
> I do have Ken-Rad 6N7 tubes with the number 13 stamped in the metal, but this is a 6J5 tube. Will try to post a picture later.



Oh, the KR code for the 6J5 is "36".

To the best of my knowledge, the two-letter Tung-Sol date codes are not available on the net. And in fact, I have yet to find a complete listing in print. But I did find a few years in Tube Collector magazine, October, 2019.


----------



## Monsterzero

This what happens when too much audio gear shows up at the same time....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> This what happens when too much audio gear shows up at the same time....



I know the feeling  looks like you'll be busy this holiday weekend.  What's on the menu?


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I know the feeling  looks like you'll be busy this holiday weekend.  What's on the menu?


 Mainly cables. Anyone who denies the differences in cables has either never had a chance to a/b or theyre deaf.
I have six different RCA cables here ranging in price from 40 bucks to nearly 900.00,and there is quite a bit of difference.


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> Mainly cables. Anyone who denies the differences in cables has either never had a chance to a/b or theyre deaf.
> I have six different RCA cables here ranging in price from 40 bucks to nearly 900.00,and there is quite a bit of difference.



Any chance the $40 cable is your favorite?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Mainly cables. Anyone who denies the differences in cables has either never had a chance to a/b or theyre deaf.
> I have six different RCA cables here ranging in price from 40 bucks to nearly 900.00,and there is quite a bit of difference.



Well let us know the results!  Hopefully the $900 isn't the best.  I am open to cable swapping in the future.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> This what happens when too much audio gear shows up at the same time....




I spy a ZMF headphone stand


----------



## Monsterzero

GDuss said:


> Any chance the $40 cable is your favorite?


 No...not even close,unfortunately.



L0rdGwyn said:


> Well let us know the results!  Hopefully the $900 isn't the best.  I am open to cable swapping in the future.


Right now,again unfortunately,it is,but another that is a fraction of the price is about 97.9% close.



whirlwind said:


> I spy a ZMF headphone stand


 Yep!


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Right now,again unfortunately,it is,but another that is a fraction of the price is about 97.9% close.


Do tell... I have very recently upgraded all my interconnects, but did not really A/B. 
I opted (after recommendation by trusted buddy) for WireWorld Equinox 7 which I got used for very reasonable price!


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Do tell... I have very recently upgraded all my interconnects, but did not really A/B.
> I opted (after recommendation by trusted buddy) for WireWorld Equinox 7 which I got used for very reasonable price!



I will write up a review here,or perhaps do a video on the topic. Right now however its far too premature for me to be making any definitive statements one way or the other as to which is best/worst....well I can say that the 40 dollar one is by far the worst. Ive had it in my system for over a year,and in comparison to all of the others,its hot garbage.
None of the others have been fully cooked yet.
I have a $400.00 cable in my secondary system. Right now its lagging quite a bit behind a couple of the others,but the guy who makes it swears I need to give it more time to burn-in. As of right now the bass is weak(what I originally attributed to the USB cable Fred loaned me)and bloated. Comments made by others on different forums experienced the same problems with it,but supposedly its going to blossom into a giant killer. We'll see.

The 900.00 cable sounds and feels spectacular,but again too early to say anything for sure.

I will keep you guys posted.


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Thanks for the detective work. Where can I find a chart of the Tung Sol two letter codes?
> I do have Ken-Rad 6N7 tubes with the number 13 stamped in the metal, but this is a 6J5 tube. Will try to post a picture later.


Rechecked the Ken-Rad tube now - it is a 6C5 (not a 6J5). It is much heavier and has a different shape than the other 6J5 tubes - feels like a little hand grenade. On the tube rim there is stamped a single letter C.
H7 could very well be October 1938 since the 6C5 appeared first in 1935.









I actually have a matching KR tube but is too rusty to see anything on it.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Rechecked the Ken-Rad tube now - it is a 6C5 (not a 6J5). It is much heavier and has a different shape than the other 6J5 tubes - feels like a little hand grenade. On the tube rim there is stamped a single letter C.
> H7 could very well be October 1938 since the 6C5 appeared first in 1935.
> 
> 
> ...



The KR code for the 6C5 is "4" which was typically stamped into the base ring.


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 27, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Mainly cables. Anyone who denies the differences in cables has either never had a chance to a/b or theyre deaf.
> I have six different RCA cables here ranging in price from 40 bucks to nearly 900.00,and there is quite a bit of difference.


Reminds me to mention my experience with the BlueJeans RCA cable you fine folks recommend to me a while ago. After using it for about 2 months here's my impressions: It gives a very organic/lifelike energetic sound with a lot of detail and extended FR with drums that (can) sound good, however the bass is fairly bloated and even boomy with quite a slow 'decay'. By saying drums 'can' sound good on this cable, it pretty much depends on if it's a bright recording which it can do a fantastic job to tone it down a bit - otherwise for dark recordings - fogetAboutIt, I'll have to switch back to a brighter cable to tighten up that bass a bit. So yes I absolutely am a believer in interconnects (and Headphone cables, power cables, and PERHAPS USB cables) making a difference, and especially I'm interested in a better interconnect 'RCA' cable but not up to $900!

Also did anyone else have the same experience with the BlueJeans cable?

PS - mine was a 3 foot cable, and FWIW it's an outstanding value with top build quality.


----------



## Monsterzero

DecentLevi said:


> Reminds me to mention my experience with the BlueJeans RCA cable you fine folks recommend to me a while ago. After using it for about 2 months here's my impressions: It gives a very organic/lifelike energetic sound with a lot of detail and extended FR with drums that (can) sound good, however the bass is fairly bloated and even boomy with quite a slow 'decay'. By saying drums 'can' sound good on this cable, it pretty much depends on if it's a bright recording which it can do a fantastic job to tone it down a bit - otherwise for dark recordings - fogetAboutIt, I'll have to switch back to a brighter cable to tighten up that bass a bit. So yes I absolutely am a believer in interconnects (and Headphone cables, power cables, and PERHAPS USB cables) making a difference, and especially I'm interested in a better interconnect 'RCA' cable but not up to $900!
> 
> Also did anyone else have the same experience with the BlueJeans cable?
> 
> PS - mine was a 3 foot cable, and FWIW it's an outstanding value with top build quality.


 The gentleman who provided four of the RCAs to me admitted that a couple were a bit "system dependent". Perhaps the Blue Jean cables failing on warmer recordings is a byproduct of using an R2R DAC?


----------



## dminches

Monsterzero said:


> I will write up a review here,or perhaps do a video on the topic. Right now however its far too premature for me to be making any definitive statements one way or the other as to which is best/worst....well I can say that the 40 dollar one is by far the worst. Ive had it in my system for over a year,and in comparison to all of the others,its hot garbage.
> None of the others have been fully cooked yet.
> I have a $400.00 cable in my secondary system. Right now its lagging quite a bit behind a couple of the others,but the guy who makes it swears I need to give it more time to burn-in. As of right now the bass is weak(what I originally attributed to the USB cable Fred loaned me)and bloated. Comments made by others on different forums experienced the same problems with it,but supposedly its going to blossom into a giant killer. We'll see.
> 
> ...



Hopefully you will post some comments including which cables you are auditioning.

Recently I purchased a Sablon Audio power cord.  Most of the power cords in my main system are Audioquest Hurricanes and they are great cables.  The Sablon cable may be better.  It is too early to tell but it made a huge difference with my DAC.  I need to try it on my preamp next.  Sablons Ethernet and USB cables are also great.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Rechecked the Ken-Rad tube now - it is a 6C5 (not a 6J5). It is much heavier and has a different shape than the other 6J5 tubes - feels like a little hand grenade. On the tube rim there is stamped a single letter C.
> H7 could very well be October 1938 since the 6C5 appeared first in 1935.
> 
> 
> ...



I have a pair of RCA 6C5 "Hand Grenades" like this KR you show, Mordy.
Listening to them now.  They are nice sounding tubes.


----------



## mordy

Have been listening the entire evening to a pair of 40's RCA 6J5 metal tubes. The sound is so right that I forgot about the amp and the system and only thought about the music to the point that I could not remember which drivers I was using.....


----------



## Monsterzero

dminches said:


> Hopefully you will post some comments including which cables you are auditioning.
> 
> Recently I purchased a Sablon Audio power cord.  Most of the power cords in my main system are Audioquest Hurricanes and they are great cables.  The Sablon cable may be better.  It is too early to tell but it made a huge difference with my DAC.  I need to try it on my preamp next.  Sablons Ethernet and USB cables are also great.



I will look into them. Thanks for the tip.

I will ID the cables when I feel they have had enough time to burn-in,most likely in a video on my YouTube channel. I hate typing.


----------



## chrisdrop

Monsterzero said:


> I will look into them. Thanks for the tip.
> 
> I will ID the cables when I feel they have had enough time to burn-in,most likely in a video on my YouTube channel. I hate typing.



#caveat-heavy-opinion

Cable-wise there are differences. _I think _the differences are greatest in the headphone cable, then interconnects, then power cables. I am not sure about USB. I do have a Tellurium USB (not inexpensive, but not their most expensive ones) cable, but (foolishly) I changed other things when I changed that so I need to try experiment a bit more.

If you are handy with a soldering iron, you can make HP cables, interconnects and (even with no soldering) power cables for ~1/2 the price or less. The materials for the best cables are still expensive. Other head-fiers have been _very_ helpful in guiding me while I have experimented in this space and I 100% believe you can positively impact your sound and with a little effort for much less money. The raw parts for my interconnects were around £300 and I believe you would have to spend > 2x to get an equivalent sounding cable. FWIW - I am barely able with a soldering iron and I have observed many of you are quite handy - so I would encourage a go at DIY cables. Disclaimer; none of it is not going to make bad headphones sound good or anything so drastic. You can get imaging, stage and clarity improvements with your highly resolving gear. You are all using TOTL amps and headphones and they will scale with better cable. 

I am a science-minded person and I must admit that I don't really understand why. I have a team of mathematicians/ statisticians working professionally, daily for years. I say that because I consider myself a data-minded sceptical person, so if you are - ME TOO! I also have to admit that despite that - the differences have been very positive and noticeable.


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## rosgr63

Happy Thanksgiving!!!


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## whirlwind

Happy Thanksgiving!


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## L0rdGwyn

Happy Thanksgiving to all!  Enjoy your turkey and good company.  We are having peking duck


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## JazzVinyl

Happy Thanksgiving all!!

We usually do a Ham, but have a bird in this year.  
Are expecting 16


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## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> #caveat-heavy-opinion
> 
> Cable-wise there are differences. _I think _the differences are greatest in the headphone cable, then interconnects, then power cables. I am not sure about USB. I do have a Tellurium USB (not inexpensive, but not their most expensive ones) cable, but (foolishly) I changed other things when I changed that so I need to try experiment a bit more.
> 
> ...



I decided a few years ago there are appreciable differences between headphone cables.  At the time, I was making some comparisons on the HD650 between the stock cable and a cable I had made with some cheap silver plated copper wire I bought from China.  Well, lo and behold, the stock cable sounded significantly better.  Once I realized that, I sought out better materials to build a new custom cable, Moon Audio Black Dragon cable, Furutech rhodium plated connectors, Eidolic rhodium plated 1/4" plug.  At the time I found this cable to be better than stock and have used it ever since.  I made a similar cable for ZMFs.  I haven't gone down this rabbit hole any further since, I am curious if there is something of a cable "plateau" where once a cable is of good enough quality, the incremental improvements disappear.  Will likely take this further and buy or make some better cables in the future to find out.

I am a science-minded person myself  and I have not found a plausible explanation.  Believe it or not, researchers are not doing their PhD theses on the perceptible changes associated with cable swapping, or the subjective benefits of DACs with a tube output stage, etc.  Maybe some of these topics have scientific answers, but scientists are probably not very interested.  Based on my recent experiences though, I am now rejecting the measurements more readily than I used to.  There is something that isn't being captured.

Here are some cables I have made, a sleeved cable for the Focal Elear I owned for a very brief time, and my HD650 cable.  I honestly don't know if I will ever braid and sleeve a cable again, VERY time-consuming, I'd probably rather shell out the insane prices for nice headphone cables.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> I decided a few years ago there are appreciable differences between headphone cables.  At the time, I was making some comparisons on the HD650 between the stock cable and a cable I had made with some cheap silver plated copper wire I bought from China.  Well, lo and behold, the stock cable sounded significantly better.  Once I realized that, I sought out better materials to build a new custom cable, Moon Audio Black Dragon cable, Furutech rhodium plated connectors, Eidolic rhodium plated 1/4" plug.  At the time I found this cable to be better than stock and have used it ever since.  I made a similar cable for ZMFs.  I haven't gone down this rabbit hole any further since, I am curious if there is something of a cable "plateau" where once a cable is of good enough quality, the incremental improvements disappear.  Will likely take this further and buy or make some better cables in the future to find out.
> 
> I am a science-minded person myself  and I have not found a plausible explanation.  Believe it or not, researchers are not doing their PhD theses on the perceptible changes associated with cable swapping, or the subjective benefits of DACs with a tube output stage, etc.  Maybe some of these topics have scientific answers, but scientists are probably not very interested.  Based on my recent experiences though, I am now rejecting the measurements more readily than I used to.  There is something that isn't being captured.
> 
> Here are some cables I have made, a sleeved cable for the Focal Elear I owned for a very brief time, and my HD650 cable.  I honestly don't know if I will ever braid and sleeve a cable again, VERY time-consuming, I'd probably rather shell out the insane prices for nice headphone cables.



I've spent a fair amount of time on the Aeolus comparing the stock ZMF cable (the flat one) to the stock cable that comes with the Audeze LCD2C and then to a ZMF 2K.  As much as I would like to say there is no reason a headphone cable should sound different, they do in my opinion.  The most notable difference is going from ZMFs stock cable to the 2K.

Given that enjoyment of music is a subjective sensory experience that is likely influenced by many factors, I would imagine that differences in headphone cables would be more apparent than differences in interconnects.  Why?  You interact with the headphone cable while using it, and you don't interact with an interconnect.  This is not to say that there is no difference between interconnects (or power cords etc), just that the potential for other factors to influence your perception of a headphone cable is greater.  In my case, one of those factors might be the color of the cable

 

Could there be an element of "purple placebo" here?  Sure.  I don't think it's all placebo, but how do you prove that?  With blind testing, having someone else swap out the cables and see if you can identify which is which?  That would help, and maybe I should run that experiment.  But as we all know, enjoying music can be a multi-sensory experience.  That's why there are light shows at many live music events (I posted about this on the Aeolus thread).  Does the music sound the same whether there is a light show or not?  Yes.  Do you enjoy it more if there is a light show?  Yes.  So I think with headphone cables there can be both actual sound differences and then also influences from other senses.  It probably also helps that I got the cable used for a good deal .


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## L0rdGwyn

GDuss said:


> I've spent a fair amount of time on the Aeolus comparing the stock ZMF cable (the flat one) to the stock cable that comes with the Audeze LCD2C and then to a ZMF 2K.  As much as I would like to say there is no reason a headphone cable should sound different, they do in my opinion.  The most notable difference is going from ZMFs stock cable to the 2K.
> 
> Given that enjoyment of music is a subjective sensory experience that is likely influenced by many factors, I would imagine that differences in headphone cables would be more apparent than differences in interconnects.  Why?  You interact with the headphone cable while using it, and you don't interact with an interconnect.  This is not to say that there is no difference between interconnects (or power cords etc), just that the potential for other factors to influence your perception of a headphone cable is greater.  In my case, one of those factors might be the color of the cable
> 
> ...



Very good points!  Certainly it is a multifactorial experience.  What was so striking to me about my headphone cable revelation was I _expected_ my silver-plated copper cable to sound better, but the stock HD650 cable was the winner, subverting my confirmation bias, making me more confident my observations were accurate.  You are right, blind testing is the best way to get the "truth".  But perception is reality, right?  If I allow my confirmation bias to go unrestrained and I buy a $5,000 power cable, and I _think_ it sounds better, then it does sound better!  A worthwhile upgrade  I think some audiophiles operate in this state, I at least try to keep the bias under control as best I can, especially when evaluating a subtle change.  Sometimes though, the differences are so striking that I throw the placebo effect out the window.

I was thinking about my experience with the Lampizator Amber 3 earlier today and trying to find some analogy to describe the significance of the differences I heard.  It truly changed my perspective on DAC topologies, tube output stages, the value of objective measurements, and the place a DAC takes in ones audio chain.  I settled on this comparison: take the HD600 and HD650.  Very similar headphones, similar drivers, same manufacturer.  When evaluating these two headphones subjectively, without measurements, would anyone ever tell you what you were hearing was a placebo effect?  Obviously not, the differences in frequency response are easy to discern, even if the headphones are of the same family and have a similar overall character.  I would say the differences I heard when comparing the Amber 3 to my suite of solid state DACs was on the same order of magnitude.  It was very striking.  When hearing differences of this significance, I feel confident ruling out a placebo effect, without blind testing.

Okay, I'm rambling, but something I have been thinking about a lot lately since I am dropping a large sum of money on a tube output DAC


----------



## A2029

Here are a couple potential reasons why different cables can have slightly different tonality IMO:

-Cable length - The longer the cable, the greater the wire resistance and the higher the cable capacitance
-Distance between conductors within the wire - This affects the capacitance between each of the wires within the cable
-Wire shape - Again can affect the capacitance between wires
-Number of strands per wire - Affects various parameters such as the skin effect and small effects on cable resistance
-Type of material - E.g. Higher conductivity metals decrease the resistance of the cable. Just like in resistors, wires have some very small non-zero resistance which means that they exhibit both thermal noise and current noise as a resistor does. For thinner wires, thermal noise increases and current noise may also change (but minuscule).


What makes cable choice difficult is that there is an interaction between the output characteristics of an amplifier (and the amplifier topology) with the properties of the wire. Some amplifiers may actually prefer having higher resistance wires (i.e. thin wires) attached, while others may work best with very low resistance wire. Some amplifiers may also not like wires with high capacitance, whereas other amplifiers may do best with them. Some particular cables may even act as antennas attached to the output of an amplifier and act to destabilize the circuit driving them.


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## Monsterzero

Since were discussing cables on this fine afternoon,allow me to interject an observation I have made. Cables are system dependent,whether it be a headphone cable or otherwise.
I have a ZMF 2K cable,which sounds better than stock on my VO. However when I used it on my VC it sounded etched and un-natural,so for the longest time I have been using the stock cable with the VC.

Now that I have been swapping interconnects and USB cables,suddenly the 2K cable no longer exhibits any rough edges on the VC. Why this happens I have no idea. Perhaps the 2K cable is more revealing than the stock,thus magnifying flaws in my chain?

TL;DR

Just because I love a particular tube/cable/RCA/USB/DAC/headphone,doesnt necessarily mean it will sound epic in your system.


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## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> But perception is reality, right? If I allow my confirmation bias to go unrestrained and I buy a $5,000 power cable, and I _think_ it sounds better, then it does sound better! A worthwhile upgrade



This is a tricky discussion.  On one hand you might say that if the change sounds better to the listener, then it is an improvement, and worth the money.  When you only get an hour or two a day to listen to music (like I do), anything that can enhance that experience is a welcome improvement.  But on the other hand, is it really ok to be paying money (sometimes a lot of it) for a placebo?  And is it ok for companies to be selling placebos?  If people buy it, they will sell it.  I don't think there is any correct answer to this question, as you point out, there are people on both sides of the audio business (both buyers and sellers) with widely varying opinions on this.

You can make this same argument with lots of things, one example is drugs.  If a placebo makes people feel better (or makes them objectively better) isn't it worth the cost?  Complex ethical discussion there.



L0rdGwyn said:


> I at least try to keep the bias under control as best I can, especially when evaluating a subtle change.



I think that acknowledging bias is important, because it is impossible to eliminate (without blinding).  People may not be studying changes in perceptible cable differences for their PhD, but people definitely study bias as a research question.  Even with blinding to try to eliminate bias, your interpretation of sound is highly biased by what you are used to listening to, or at least what you have listened to in the past.  At the end of the day, bias is a factor in almost everything.  But it's ok, as long as people acknowledge that it's a potential influence, they can then evaluate its influence however they choose.


----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> Since were discussing cables on this fine afternoon,allow me to interject an observation I have made. Cables are system dependent,whether it be a headphone cable or otherwise.
> I have a ZMF 2K cable,which sounds better than stock on my VO. However when I used it on my VC it sounded etched and un-natural,so for the longest time I have been using the stock cable with the VC.
> 
> Now that I have been swapping interconnects and USB cables,suddenly the 2K cable no longer exhibits any rough edges on the VC. Why this happens I have no idea. Perhaps the 2K cable is more revealing than the stock,thus magnifying flaws in my chain?
> ...



Also very true.  Lots of factors at work here.  Being aware of all of them is important.


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## mordy

GDuss said:


> Also very true.  Lots of factors at work here.  Being aware of all of them is important.


Given all these factors and variables, one thing surprised me getting into this hobby: Certain things, be it equipment, tubes, headphones etc, are appreciated as top tier products almost across the board, In other words, it is possible to arrive at a general consensus about certain items that they are among top performers. Not that everybody agrees, but that a majority agrees.
And because of this, it is possible to make recommendations to others.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Given all these factors and variables, one thing surprised me getting into this hobby: Certain things, be it equipment, tubes, headphones etc, are appreciated as top tier products almost across the board, In other words, it is possible to arrive at a general consensus about certain items that they are among top performers. Not that everybody agrees, but that a majority agrees.
> And because of this, it is possible to make recommendations to others.



Agreed.  Large sample sizes of independent opinions are one way to minimize the bias of any one opinion.


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## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Given all these factors and variables, one thing surprised me getting into this hobby: Certain things, be it equipment, tubes, headphones etc, are appreciated as top tier products almost across the board, In other words, it is possible to arrive at a general consensus about certain items that they are among top performers. Not that everybody agrees, but that a majority agrees.
> And because of this, it is possible to make recommendations to others.


 To that end,the gentleman who was kind enough to send me four of the RCAs did not inform me of the pricing of the cables,so my perception would not be skewed.

The cable that retails for nearly 900.00 is much heavier and thicker than the others,and just oozes luxury so it was hard to not have some sort of skewed perception on this particular cable. However on the other three I still do not know their prices. 
I played a reverse game with Constantin. I described what I was hearing from each cable,and asked him to guess which cable I was describing. He got exactly zero correct.  The cable he described as being a great all around cable I did not like whatsoever. The one he described as being "the least useful in the toolbox" came in 4th out of six. The one he described as being too polite and he liked mainly for classical only was my 2nd favorite(go figure)
We both agreed that the uber $$$ cable was the cream of the crop.

So again to reinforce my previous post,what one person hears in his/her chain doesnt necessarily mean the same results will be heard in anothers chain.


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## L0rdGwyn (Nov 28, 2019)

GDuss said:


> This is a tricky discussion.  On one hand you might say that if the change sounds better to the listener, then it is an improvement, and worth the money.  When you only get an hour or two a day to listen to music (like I do), anything that can enhance that experience is a welcome improvement.  But on the other hand, is it really ok to be paying money (sometimes a lot of it) for a placebo?  And is it ok for companies to be selling placebos?  If people buy it, they will sell it.  I don't think there is any correct answer to this question, as you point out, there are people on both sides of the audio business (both buyers and sellers) with widely varying opinions on this.
> 
> You can make this same argument with lots of things, one example is drugs.  If a placebo makes people feel better (or makes them objectively better) isn't it worth the cost?  Complex ethical discussion there.



I think this is the fear, that we are paying gobs of money for snake oil products.  Because our brains are unreliable and prone to bias, we can be easily taken advantage of.  I think this is what the more objectivist audiophiles are trying to combat, but my recent experiences have told me that the measurements are not a reliable predictor of listening enjoyment either.  There doesn't seem to be a perfect solution.  As far as giving placebos to patients, I think a bioethicist would argue that doing so violates the patient's autonomy, a fundamental principle of bioethics, and is a form of strong paternalism (doing it "for their own good"), a very interesting topic, but not one for this thread I'm afraid!



GDuss said:


> I think that acknowledging bias is important, because it is impossible to eliminate (without blinding).  People may not be studying changes in perceptible cable differences for their PhD, but people definitely study bias as a research question.  Even with blinding to try to eliminate bias, your interpretation of sound is highly biased by what you are used to listening to, or at least what you have listened to in the past.  At the end of the day, bias is a factor in almost everything.  But it's ok, as long as people acknowledge that it's a potential influence, they can then evaluate its influence however they choose.



I like to think I have some control over my bias when listening unblinded, but the reality is I probably don't.  I try to remain cognizant of its existence, but half the fun is letting your ears take you on that wild ride  like you said, the enjoyment is multifaceted.  Collecting, rolling, drooling over tubes, then getting lost in the sound they create is the most enjoyable way I have found to listen in this hobby, and I wouldn't have it any other way.  I once heard someone say listening to tubes is like driving a vintage sports car.  It may not have the measurements and specs of the sleekest, most modern models, but it is fun as hell to drive!


----------



## chrisdrop

A brief respite from cable-chat:

I have been exclusively on the other ye-olde GEC 6J5s for a week or so. Today, I decided it was time to give a tube a chance..

Out of the box, these Sylvania straight glass 6J5s sound great (and quiet). NOS and 0 hours - I wonder where they will go? 

.. Tx to @Monsterzero and a kind seller, a pair of Bendix 6080s should be with me on Monday to accompany all this goodness.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> A brief respite from cable-chat:
> 
> I have been exclusively on the other ye-olde GEC 6J5s for a week or so. Today, I decided it was time to give a tube a chance..
> 
> ...


I am really curious how the Sylvania 6J5G (VT-94?) compare to the GEC L63(6J5) tubes. And if you can spare a couple of dollars, perhaps you want to try the RCA 6J5 metal tubes that I found great sounding - should be available for less than $10 shipped for a pair.


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## Zachik

mordy said:


> RCA 6J5 metal tubes that I found great sounding - should be available for less than $10 shipped for a pair.


mordy - where did you get them from?


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## mordy (Nov 30, 2019)

Zachik said:


> mordy - where did you get them from?


Hi Zachik,
I looked for small mixed of lots of 6J5 (and 6C5) tubes and bought whatever was cheap. Most of the tubes cost less than $2-3 each shipped.
I don't have any preconceived ideas of what is going to sound good and with these prices I can afford to try a bunch of different ones: metal, straight glass and ST shape - the ST shape tubes cost more because "everybody knows" that they must sound better since they look much better than say the black all metal rusty top hat ones.
Also bought some glass 12J5GT tubes - $6-7 each shipped. I haven't had the time to go through all what I acquired yet but  altogether I have around three dozen tubes by now.
I cannot say yet what I like the best, but the RCA all metal tubes sound excellent. It appears that they manufactured these for other major brands as well, and it appears that some of the Tung Sol and Sylvania 6J5 that I have were made by RCA.
Most of the tubes were bought from eBay (many untested) and from VIVA tubes from their website which seems to offer discounts that don't appear on eBay. But if you check out their offerings on eBay and wait a day or so they may email a 10% discount offer.
Here is how I search eBay:
Type in RCA 6J5 in the search bar
On the next line starting with All Listings click on the drop down menu on the right and choose price + shipping lowest first
Two lines down where it says Price click on the box that says Under $15.00
Tonight there are 103 listings - look for pairs.
Here is an auction for a WW2 pair (VT94 is the military designation for 6J5):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-RCA-V...936247?hash=item1a8a916d77:g:QJIAAOSw6INd1Htd
Very few people are interested in these tubes - if you see something you like it usually pays to communicate with the seller and ask if they have more than one if they list a single. Many times you can make a deal with the seller and ask him to post it on eBay for you. This way you have the buyer protection that eBay and PayPal offer.
Personally I am not worried about untested tubes and test ratings 80% or more seem to be just fine. I really don't know anything about test results (from what I read it seems that I am in good company lol) - different testers use different scales and different parameters. I try to ask what the minimum good is if it isn't listed. The tubes in the listing above measure 3600 and 4000 with a minimum of 1640 - seems fine.
Have fun!


----------



## Zachik

Thanks @mordy 
I thought you might have a seller (on eBay or elsewhere) with a big stock of 6J5 tubes...


----------



## mordy

The only one I know of is VIVA Tubes, but with a little patience I am sure something will come up.


----------



## gibosi

It's been fairly quiet here recently... I assume that many here must be exhausted from spending money these last several days... 

Anyway, realized that I hadn't rolled in a GEC BL63 / VR102 in a long time. For those who like the GEC sound, this is a nice tube.


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> I am really curious how the Sylvania 6J5G (VT-94?) compare to the GEC L63(6J5) tubes. And if you can spare a couple of dollars, perhaps you want to try the RCA 6J5 metal tubes that I found great sounding - should be available for less than $10 shipped for a pair.



These are the Sylvanias in now & these are the metal RCAs that will go in next on my journey of 6J5 discovery. 



chrisdrop said:


> I just had a material reduction in my noise floor. Putting the amp on something squishy removed noise - presumably; transformer ->  tubes. This has made my day. Some sort of isolation feet are in my future. I can't believe how stark the difference is...
> 
> On a less Glenn amp related note, I am happy to report more positive "cable flogging"; As recommended to me by keen cable DIYers; Neotech UP-OCC copper headphone cable is proving a step up from stock cabling and also from my Forza Hybrid (copper/ silver). Solidly recognisable.
> 
> And finally, a few more 6J5 pics. Not used yet. Still enjoying current setup too much!



Sylvania markings on 'the front' say:
JAN-CHS 6J5GT/G
VT94D

JAN-CHS- = Sylvania

Here are the back markings, I think they are slightly different across my 2 valves, which have some appearance difference, 1 looks older than the other, although both sold as NOS and sound great/ appear well matched.

 

I have been trying to give new tubes a week of listening to make assessments (and fight my setup fidget compulsion). I'd like the tubes to get some hours on them in the case that they are new and I'd like to see how they are with a bit of musical breadth. I have kept the outputs the same - 4x 6080 - so far. After a day with the Sylvanias - between them & the GECs; 

- GECs were more expensive, Sylvanias inexpensive, and RCAs cheap.
- GECs a bit more airy and upper-mid presence. Sylvanias more impact and round bass. Both "in a good way". 
- Both have solid staging, but perhaps GECs win by a smidge. That could also be the upper-mid clarity. FWIW - Just as I typed this, I had a stage width head-turner on these Sylvanias.. (via Thome Yorke - Twisted [Anima album])

I think all the 6J5s run cooler than other valves. 

Anyone with 6J5s + EL32s (in c3g slots) yet? 

@mordy I will likely put the RCAs in next weekend and let you know after a bit of listening. 

And finally, I feel I would be remiss without offering the other thing driving my listening enthusiasm... While I may be in the listening genre minority here, this album (electronic) has been head-fi listening festival. 

Jettison Mind Hatch by Tipper. 

https://tidal.com/browse/album/109432389

Happy listening,
Chris


----------



## chrisdrop

One more pic... These little cheap spring jobbies from Amazon have replaced my 1/2 tennis ball setup. They are just little springs, not attached to the amp even. They are just as effective as my hi-tech tennis balls at quieting down any minor transformer jiggles compared to on the harder surface the amp was sat upon. It is probable that those of you using rack setups have something like this already. I can't believe how many mag-lev and other quite pricey "feet" they sell (principally aimed at turntables I think).


----------



## Velozity

chrisdrop said:


> And finally, I feel I would be remiss without offering the other thing driving my listening enthusiasm... While I may be in the listening genre minority here, this album (electronic) has been head-fi listening festival.
> 
> Jettison Mind Hatch by Tipper.
> 
> ...





Chris, thanks for the album recommendation!  I must be in the listening genre minority too, because electronic is my favorite style of music.  Just downloaded this in hi-res on Bandcamp!


----------



## chrisdrop

Hey @Velozity - you got the wooden Glenn amp - yes? I hope you are enjoying it. It has been too long with no pix of that wooden bad-boy. 

Also - I hope you enjoy the Tipper album  If you liked it, let me know - and send me something to listen to. If you hated it, let me know - and send me something to listen to.


----------



## 2359glenn

I changed out the amplifier tubes in my preamp.  Went from Raytheon box plate #26 to phillips E242s sounds great not sure witch ones sound better.
The 26 is supposed to be the best sounding preamp tube but hard to find quiet ones.  The Raytheons seem to be the best.
But they met there match with these Phillips tubes.
Two E424 and a 6BL7 cathode follower output two Amperite 10A10 current regulators for the E424s and a Mullard GZ37 rectifier.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> I changed out the amplifier tubes in my preamp.  Went from Raytheon box plate #26 to phillips E242s sounds great not sure witch ones sound better.
> The 26 is supposed to be the best sounding preamp tube but hard to find quiet ones.  The Raytheons seem to be the best.
> But they met there match with these Phillips tubes.
> Two E424 and a 6BL7 cathode follower output two Amperite 10A10 current regulators for the E424s and a Mullard GZ37 rectifier.



So glad this worked out Glenn, the risk was rewarded.  They look good and sound good, it's a win-win.  Pretty sure this is the first time ever these tubes have been used on Head-Fi.


----------



## leftside

chrisdrop said:


> ... While I may be in the listening genre minority here, this album (electronic) has been head-fi listening festival.


Quite a few of us on here like some type of (there are many...) electronic music 



chrisdrop said:


> One more pic... These little cheap spring jobbies from Amazon


Can you share the link?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> Quite a few of us on here like some type of (there are many...) electronic music



Count me as one, I listen to just about everything with a few exceptions, but certain types of electronic music are very high on my list of favorite genres.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> So glad this worked out Glenn, the risk was rewarded.  They look good and sound good, it's a win-win.  Pretty sure this is the first time ever these tubes have been used on Head-Fi.



Your amp will be the next


----------



## chrisdrop

leftside said:


> Quite a few of us on here like some type of (there are many...) electronic music


That is good news. Colour me happy and corrected. 


leftside said:


> (there are many...) electronic music


I couldn't agree more. What music has so many sub-genres as electronic music !? My 1st career so many years ago was in the electronic music business. Happily escaped the music _business_, happily stayed with the _music_. 



leftside said:


> Can you share the link?


CanadAmazon link for you: https://www.amazon.ca/Nobsound-Alum...luminum+Spring+Speakers&qid=1575217461&sr=8-1 

Now @leftside I see from your signature that you are in Vancouver. My business partner (and great friend) is from Vancouver and loves a good Canadian ref, so backtracked through my recent listenings to find some Canadian electronic music to share and .. I couldn't find one. This sadly demonstrates my lack of global awareness. I will leave it to you to enlighten the rest of us. This (I am pretty sure) Kiwi chap presently in my ear will have to do: https://tidal.com/browse/track/114400644 Kamandi; Voices (who seems to keep seeping into my listening).

Also - @L0rdGwyn - I think we will mark today "Glenn-amp users electronic music appreciation day".  Who knew there were so many fans ?


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> These are the Sylvanias in now & these are the metal RCAs that will go in next on my journey of 6J5 discovery.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi chrisdrop,
Guess what - I am listening to the Sylvania 6J5GT/G, EL32 and 4x6080! Basically I am so happy with the EL32/4x6080 that I mainly switch out the front driver (pair) only. Also have three other choices for the C3g slots, EL8 and EL11 and C3g of course, but I am happy to stay with the EL32s. One day I have to roll the other choices with a favorite driver and see if I can pick a winner....
Re the Sylvania 6J5GT/G on your picture, the SC 966 A is not a date code; it is a quality control code: Signal Corps Inspector 966 (same idea as the OTK on Russian tubes). 
Please look for two small letter/number symbols such as H 5 which is the date code. The letter is the month and the the digit is the year - 4 is 1944 etc.
Just put in the Sylvania straight glass tubes yesterday. The first hour or two they did not sound good with weak bass. But after two hours  they suddenly blossomed and now I have very nice bass. IMHO the Sylvanias have a very wide and expansive sound stage and beautiful everything. There are many rebranded ones available with the round plate and these tubes are real bargains for what you get. Thanks to LG to steering me to these tubes.
Happy Listening!
PS: Did you post the spring thing link? My stuff sits on a heavy metal equipment rack with spikes on the bottom that sit on a wooden floor. Each shelf sits on four little tabs with a thin piece of rubber and a small glass marble (to cancel out vibrations) between the tab and the shelf (based on a tip from Steve Guttenberg from many years ago).


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Hi chrisdrop,
> Guess what - I am listening to the Sylvania 6J5GT/G, EL32 and 4x6080! Basically I am so happy with the EL32/4x6080 that I mainly switch out the front driver (pair) only. Also have three other choices for the C3g slots, EL8 and EL11 and C3g of course, but I am happy to stay with the EL32s. One day I have to roll the other choices with a favorite driver and see if I can pick a winner....
> Re the Sylvania 6J5GT/G on your picture, the SC 966 A is not a date code; it is a quality control code: Signal Corps Inspector 966 (same idea as the OTK on Russian tubes).
> Please look for two small letter/number symbols such as H 5 which is the date code. The letter is the month and the the digit is the year - 4 is 1944 etc.
> ...



Good news on the Sylvanias. Whenever I take them out of the amp, I will scan for date codes. I will surely report back on the RCAs, but I am sure they will be lovely, then I will circle back to the L63s ..

Nobsound 4PCS Silver Aluminum Spring Speakers Spikes Isolation Stand for HiFi Amplifiers
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Alu...luminum+Spring+Speakers&qid=1575217461&sr=8-1

For now - out for the evening with the family; today marks 11y since we moved from NY to London. Happy times; sushi awaits!


----------



## Monsterzero

I too like electronic music,mainly low BPM trance(less than 130bpm)psychill and psybient. The VC excels with these genres and well,pretty much every thing else as well.


----------



## leftside

chrisdrop said:


> That is good news. Colour me happy and corrected.
> 
> I couldn't agree more. What music has so many sub-genres as electronic music !? My 1st career so many years ago was in the electronic music business. Happily escaped the music _business_, happily stayed with the _music_.
> 
> ...


Canada isn't exactly a hot bed of music, let alone electronic music. Richie Hawtin, Deadmau5, Misstress Barbara are the only ones I can think of. I keep up to date with European electronic music via Roon Radio and YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6qQOTx9LuKMC5p2dbjmSRg

I'll be in Berlin next year, and hope to hit a few of the clubs, even though I'm probably a bit old for that now! One last hurrah...



chrisdrop said:


> For now - out for the evening with the family; today marks 11y since we moved from NY to London. Happy times; sushi awaits!


Over 20 years ago I almost moved to NY from London, but ended up in Toronto. Don't buy the sushi in London lol.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> Also - @L0rdGwyn - I think we will mark today "Glenn-amp users electronic music appreciation day".  Who knew there were so many fans ?



Sounds good to me, Dec. 1, easy to remember!


----------



## mordy

In case anybody is interested, VIVA Tubes is offering 25% of on almost everything they sell until Dec3, 2019.
https://www.vivatubes.com/black-friday-sale-details/


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> So glad this worked out Glenn, the risk was rewarded.  They look good and sound good, it's a win-win.  Pretty sure this is the first time ever these tubes have been used on Head-Fi.





2359glenn said:


> Your amp will be the next



Glenn - I thought my 6EL3N is next......


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Glenn - I thought my 6EL3N is next......



Lol Glenn is saying my amp will be the next to use these tubes, his is the first


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Good news on the Sylvanias. Whenever I take them out of the amp, I will scan for date codes.
> 
> Just checked my Sylvania 6J5 tubes - I have one VT-94 that is the same as yours. To find the date code, look for two symbols under the octagon designation on the the glass that says 6J5 GT/T. Mine says B 4 which means February 1944.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Lol Glenn is saying my amp will be the next to use these tubes, his is the first


oh... 

I am so excited about my 6EL3N, which BTW due to last minute changes - the name is not encompassing its full set of capabilities anymore... 
All I can say for now, is that it is a 6EL3N plus plus  
(I will elaborate on the "plus plus" when the amp is done!)


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Just checked my Sylvania 6J5 tubes - I have one VT-94 that is the same as yours. To find the date code, look for two symbols under the octagon designation on the the glass that says 6J5 GT/T. Mine says B 4 which means February 1944.



Tx for that @mordy 

Mine say G4 and K4. Is that July 1944 and Nov 1944 ? How is the year arrived at - just assumed as 194* ?


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Glenn - I thought my 6EL3N is next......



I meant that next to use those crazy tubes  that nobody uses and sound great like MH4


----------



## L0rdGwyn

While these crazy tubes sound great, you do have to pay for it.  Not being used in headphone amps, but tube amp DIYers know how good they are...I was talking to one the other day who called the REN904 his absolute favorite indirectly heated preamp tube.

My cheapest pair are East German RWN Neuhaus, think I paid around $70 for them.  Most expensive pair I just bought the other day, but I could not resist.  Similar to Glenn's but slightly different bias point, they are Philips E424N.  I have made a friend of an Italian tube seller, but shipping from Italy is bonkers expensive.


  

At some point, I would like to get a pair of sought-after British Mazda AC/HL.  These two pairs sold the other day, around $300 USD a pair, yikes!  But so purdy.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Tx for that @mordy
> 
> Mine say G4 and K4. Is that July 1944 and Nov 1944 ? How is the year arrived at - just assumed as 194* ?


You have to guess the year from context - not hard with these, but with some tubes it may be a question which decade which is quite a difference.
G4 should be July, but K4 is more likely October 1944 because the letter I is usually omitted, looking too close to the number 1.
In a any case, these tubes are older than either one of us and still going strong.......


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> These two pairs sold the other day, around $300 USD a pair, yikes!


Try buying NOS pair of KT66 or EL34... $300 for a pair would sound like a bargain!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Try buying NOS pair of KT66 or EL34... $300 for a pair would sound like a bargain!



Yup, a pair of Philips XF2 EL34 should only cost $2-250, I have seen clear glass GEC KT66 for $250 a pair.  But smoked glass GEC KT66 and metal base Philips EL34 will run you $500, even more for GEC KT77 if you can find a NOS pair.  Several markets for these tubes, two-channel stereo amps, guitar amps, and now headphone amps, so demand is very high!  Gotta pay for the best I'm afraid.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> While these crazy tubes sound great, you do have to pay for it.  Not being used in headphone amps, but tube amp DIYers know how good they are...I was talking to one the other day who called the REN904 his absolute favorite indirectly heated preamp tube.
> 
> My cheapest pair are East German RWN Neuhaus, think I paid around $70 for them.  Most expensive pair I just bought the other day, but I could not resist.  Similar to Glenn's but slightly different bias point, they are Philips E424N.  I have made a friend of an Italian tube seller, but shipping from Italy is bonkers expensive.
> 
> ...



When you think about it not bad for a pair of tubes that sound as good as a ECC32 or B65.
I am totally surprised at how good my system sounds with these tubes as the preamp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> When you think about it not bad for a pair of tubes that sound as good as a ECC32 or B65.
> I am totally surprised at how good my system sounds with these tubes as the preamp.



You're right, for competing with the best tubes out there the price is not crazy, and you can get nice pairs for around $100 from independent tube sellers.  Lots of different flavors too, and still available since they are not being featured in off-the-shelf amps.

I think these are special tubes.  Earlier I was comparing the Marconi MH4 and Mullard NR52, have distinctly different sound, the Marconi's are more balanced, the Mullards are warm with nice thick bass, very spacious.  And that's in a 6SN7 socket with an adapter.


 

If you wanted to take the craziness even further, could try out French PTT100 or Siemens Bi, equivalent tubes but would need a G7K to B5 adapter.  My French tube seller recommended to me the Radiotechnique PTT100, but those Siemens tubes are extremely rare.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> And that's in a 6SN7 socket with an adapter.


 Wait...I thought you did away with your 6SN7 socket? Man I cant keep up with your tube adventures! Im just getting into 6/12J5s and now I have to research these as well?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Wait...I thought you did away with your 6SN7 socket? Man I cant keep up with your tube adventures! Im just getting into 6/12J5s and now I have to research these as well?



Lol sorry D, the 6/12J5s are really better for the GOTL and are great tubes, these ones are pretty exotic.  They have 4V filaments, so the only way to use them in the GOTL is with an adapter with resistors built in and they are nowhere close to being correctly biased, really not ideal.  I only had the adapter made by Deyan to see what they sound like before committing to a dedicated amp for them, sort of an experimental thing.

I still have the 6SN7 socket, got rid of the C3g and replaced those with 6J5 sockets.  I still use the 6SN7 socket for the ECC32 and a few of my favorite 6SN7 like the Fivre black plate.


----------



## Monsterzero

Well thats good to hear cuz cables are my latest wallet drain.
Thank you to @Zachik for sending me his Equinox 7 RCAs to include in my upcoming RCA shootout video.
If anyone else has a pair of RCAs that they would like to be included in the video,send me a PM. You will be without them for approx 2-4 weeks.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Well thats good to hear cuz cables are my latest wallet drain.
> Thank you to @Zachik for sending me his Equinox 7 RCAs to include in my upcoming RCA shootout video.
> If anyone else has a pair of RCAs that they would like to be included in the video,send me a PM. You will be without them for approx 2-4 weeks.



I can send you this RCA cable...probably have five more like it around the house.  I will send them all to you postage paid, but only if you promise to do a careful A-B of every single one and feature them in the video, those are my terms.......


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> I can send you this RCA cable...probably have five more like it around the house.  I will send them all to you postage paid, but only if you promise to do a careful A-B of every single one and feature them in the video, those are my terms.......



Um, how are you going to live without those cables for 2-4 weeks?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

GDuss said:


> Um, how are you going to live without those cables for 2-4 weeks?



I'll find a way, for science!!!  These cables might be too premium for Monster's video though, don't want to make his other cables obsolete on first listen.


----------



## mordy

Thanks for the humor and laughs......


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I can send you this RCA cable...probably have five more like it around the house.  I will send them all to you postage paid, but only if you promise to do a careful A-B of every single one and feature them in the video, those are my terms.......


 My gosh,I have several just like those! What are the odds?!?


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> I can send you this RCA cable...probably have five more like it around the house.  I will send them all to you postage paid, but only if you promise to do a careful A-B of every single one and feature them in the video, those are my terms.......


Won't be a fair shootout, unless they're in the same price range of $20 to $900... and I think those are NOT within that range!


----------



## Zachik

BTW, I have never heard of an amp throwing up, but plug this thing to the GOTL - and we might have a first...


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Dec 2, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> My gosh,I have several just like those! What are the odds?!?



Sometimes the best audio gear is right under your nose...attached to a broken, dusty, VCR from the early 90s.



Zachik said:


> Won't be a fair shootout, unless they're in the same price range of $20 to $900... and I think those are NOT within that range!



You're right, it wouldn't be fair...these probably go for $2K+ easy.  Pretty sure I read the sleeving is made of congealed dragons' blood, but I might have misread.


----------



## pippen99

Greetings All.  I have posted on this thread a few times and follow religiously.  I enjoy the passion and appreciate the knowledge you all are willing to share.  I went a little crazy on Black Friday and now find myself in need of a quad of 2A3.  I would appreciate opinions on new and NOS options of all vintages.  I would also appreciate options for trusted sellers.  I had the option for the KR 2A3 HP but domestic prices were crazy.  I found the same tubes for nearly 45% off at either Banzai Music or Tube Amp Doctor in Germany.  Is anyone familiar with these sellers?  I know 2A3 is not much discussed here but hope someone has knowledge to share.   I don't want to the derail the thread so PM me  with your suggestions.  Appreciate all your help.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

@Deyan - 6J5 and EL11 adaptors have arrived safely, thanks again mate. 

Loving the GEC 6J5 ST driver pair with the Sylvania 6BL7 sextet and WE422A.


----------



## whirlwind

pippen99 said:


> Greetings All.  I have posted on this thread a few times and follow religiously.  I enjoy the passion and appreciate the knowledge you all are willing to share.  I went a little crazy on Black Friday and now find myself in need of a quad of 2A3.  I would appreciate opinions on new and NOS options of all vintages.  I would also appreciate options for trusted sellers.  I had the option for the KR 2A3 HP but domestic prices were crazy.  I found the same tubes for nearly 45% off at either Banzai Music or Tube Amp Doctor in Germany.  Is anyone familiar with these sellers?  I know 2A3 is not much discussed here but hope someone has knowledge to share.   I don't want to the derail the thread so PM me  with your suggestions.  Appreciate all your help.




Did you get a new amp ?

I am not much help with 2A3 tubes, but i am sure someone here will be able to help.


----------



## pippen99

I decided to be old and crazy.  I ordered a Woo WA33 Elite Edition on BF.


----------



## maxpudding

pippen99 said:


> I decided to be old and crazy.  I ordered a Woo WA33 Elite Edition on BF.



Crazy, but a nice purchase. Congrats?  If you don't mind me asking, what headphones do you have in your collection?


----------



## pippen99

Audeze LCD4 and ZMF Pheasantwood Open.  Since I am confessing I have them paired with the ZMF Verite Silver, Norne Silvergarde S3 and DHC Prion4 cables.  I use the Cavalli Liquid Gold with the PS Audio Directstream DAC streaming from a Lumin U1.  I am certifiable.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

pippen99 said:


> Greetings All.  I have posted on this thread a few times and follow religiously.  I enjoy the passion and appreciate the knowledge you all are willing to share.  I went a little crazy on Black Friday and now find myself in need of a quad of 2A3.  I would appreciate opinions on new and NOS options of all vintages.  I would also appreciate options for trusted sellers.  I had the option for the KR 2A3 HP but domestic prices were crazy.  I found the same tubes for nearly 45% off at either Banzai Music or Tube Amp Doctor in Germany.  Is anyone familiar with these sellers?  I know 2A3 is not much discussed here but hope someone has knowledge to share.   I don't want to the derail the thread so PM me  with your suggestions.  Appreciate all your help.



I am thinking the person you need to talk to is @Xcalibur255 , has experience with 2A3 in a Glenn amp.


----------



## Velozity (Dec 3, 2019)

chrisdrop said:


> Hey @Velozity - you got the wooden Glenn amp - yes? I hope you are enjoying it. It has been too long with no pix of that wooden bad-boy.
> 
> Also - I hope you enjoy the Tipper album  If you liked it, let me know - and send me something to listen to. If you hated it, let me know - and send me something to listen to.




@chrisdrop Yes I'm going to post some more G-Woody beauty shots when I get my new Atticus and Draug 3.  I do enjoy the Tipper album.  I'm glad I downloaded it in AIFF.  Much of it leans closer to dubstep which isn't my first preference per se, but I do really like it, especially in my car with front mounted subwoofer.  For head-fi I'm more of a downtempo / ambient electronic guy.  Anyway, one good tip deserves another.  Check out the album Anatole - "Emulsion" on hi-res.  It's not too slow nor is it dance music.  Definitely for chillin'.  It really shines on my GOTL when I roll 7236 power tubes and the TS BGRP driver.


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am thinking the person you need to talk to is @Xcalibur255 , has experience with 2A3 in a Glenn amp.



Not so much actually.  That's a feature that came and went quickly.

It's commonly said that the 45 and 2A3 sound basically the same but I'm not sure I buy into that.  Some 2A3 tubes were basically two 45s shoved into the same glass bottle, but this doesn't mean they share all the same sonic characteristics and there were versions of 2A3s made that had physically different construction too.  They are DHTs and share an overall house sound with tubes like the 300B and 45, but they are also kind of their own thing too in some ways.  I have not heard enough to offer wisdom on any specific 2A3 tubes.

I know the single plate RCAs are highly desirable.  Also highly expensive.  I think if it were me I would get a pair of EMLs and call it a day.  They have a very good reputation and many people who have tried them found them better than NOS tubes.  One of these days I'll get some EML 45s for my own amp.


----------



## pippen99

Thanks for chiming in.  EML is the way I am leaning after a lot of searching.  The best price I have found so far with recommendations is JAC Music.  Has anyone dealt with them?  Good, bad or indifferent?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

pippen99 said:


> Thanks for chiming in.  EML is the way I am leaning after a lot of searching.  The best price I have found so far with recommendations is JAC Music.  Has anyone dealt with them?  Good, bad or indifferent?



He is good, many people have bought from him but can be a bit unresponsive to email, so if you don't hear back right away might just need to wait a bit.  I recently contacted Jac to buy some sockets, didn't hear back for days, so ordered elsewhere.  He got back to me about a week after my initial message, but it was too late.  If you need other opinions on 2A3 could seek out Head-Fiers who have the DNA Stratus.


----------



## pippen99

Thanks.  Getting ready to fill out a price quote request.  Will check out the DNA Stratus thread.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I have been listening to the Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plates for well over a week, they are nice and quiet.  I think I was supposed to compare them to the T-plates, but I haven't had any desire to take them out  oh well I guess I'll just keep listening then, Brian Eno for a quiet evening of schoolwork.  I have been changing out drivers intermittently, from ECC32 to L63, to A4110, to MH4, to NR52, now STC/Brimar 6J5G.  Very nice to have the variety, that is the fun of owning the GOTL.


----------



## DecentLevi (Dec 3, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> To that end,the gentleman who was kind enough to send me four of the RCAs did not inform me of the pricing of the cables,so my perception would not be skewed.
> 
> The cable that retails for nearly 900.00 is much heavier and thicker than the others,and just oozes luxury so it was hard to not have some sort of skewed perception on this particular cable. However on the other three I still do not know their prices.
> I played a reverse game with Constantin. I described what I was hearing from each cable,and asked him to guess which cable I was describing. He got exactly zero correct.  The cable he described as being a great all around cable I did not like whatsoever. The one he described as being "the least useful in the toolbox" came in 4th out of six. The one he described as being too polite and he liked mainly for classical only was my 2nd favorite(go figure)
> ...



So were you saying you both agreed that the $900 interconnect sounded best? And would you mind to at least share a photo of it? And which was that other cable that "he described as being a great all around cable I did not like whatsoever"?

My basic understanding with cables is that different materials conduct energy differently, affecting the sound in different ways. Though not entirely dismissing expectation bias, I believe resolutely the materials affect the signal, even one specific material making a brighter or darker sound (notwithstanding wire gauge however) - perhaps even more than EQ'ing because not only frequency response but also things like dynamics, soundstage and 'organic-ness' are also affected and the same drum piece of the same song can sound distinctly different from cable to cable regardless of which you wanted to sound better. Cables to me are an indespensible part of your fine tuning arsenal, allowing you to make a bright and clinical album sound lush and robust, or tighten up the bass on a dark recording, etc. And that's also a good point that synergy can be system dependent so YMMV, but indeed large samples of opinions can build a strong case towards the general performance of a specific piece of gear.


----------



## Monsterzero

DecentLevi said:


> So were you saying you both agreed that the $900 interconnect sounded best? And would you mind to at least share a photo of it? And which was that other cable that "he described as being a great all around cable I did not like whatsoever"?
> 
> My basic understanding with cables is that different materials conduct energy differently, affecting the sound in different ways. Though not entirely dismissing expectation bias, I believe resolutely the materials affect the signal, even one specific material making a brighter or darker sound (notwithstanding wire gause however) - perhaps even more than EQ'ing because not only frequency response but also things like dynamics, soundstage and 'organic-ness' are also affected and the same drum piece of the same song can sound distinctly different from cable to cable regardless of which you wanted to sound better. Cables to me are an indespensible part of your fine tuning arsenal, allowing you to make a bright and clinical album sound lush and robust, or tighten up the bass on a dark recording, etc. And that's also a good point that synergy can be system dependent so YMMV, but indeed large samples of opinions can build a strong case towards the general performance of a specific piece of gear.


 I will reveal names,prices and details in my video,until then I will keep you in suspense,but yes,we both agree that the uber dollar cable sounds the best thus far,which is quite a statement coming from Constanin,as three of the cables in the shootout are his own brand,yet he admits his arent in the same class(one is close though)

Here is a great quote from a high end cable maker:



> All cables degrade the signal,ours just do it less.



When I view cables with that quote in mind,it makes much more sense...to me at least.


----------



## Monsterzero

Ive been thinking of the best way to do this cable shootout video. Im thinking I will choose a handful of songs across several genres that I own and know well. All will be redbook,or above.
Play the same songs seven times,take notes,and shoot the video.
Can you guys think of a better way to do it? Im open to suggestions.


----------



## whirlwind

pippen99 said:


> I decided to be old and crazy.  I ordered a Woo WA33 Elite Edition on BF.



Very nice....good luck with your tube search.  Should sound killer with your headphones.


----------



## chrisdrop

Hey all

In 6080 land - where do GECs rank with any of you users out there? I am considering what premium is worth paying for a matched quad of NOS GEC 6080s. They are not inexpensive, but I am tempted!

Tx
Chris


----------



## L0rdGwyn

For me, the top probably goes something like:

1. Bendix
2. GEC
3. Mullard

I think the Bendix are best if you don't have a pair I would give them a try!  I tend to prefer other power tubes over 6080s though overall.


----------



## mordy

You may consider mixing one pair of GEC with something different (and less expensive). There are two guys in different corners of the world (Sweden and New Zealand) that seem to have stock - look at this list of what recently sold:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
You may want to contact them and ask if they have additional tubes.

Personally, I like the GEC 6080 better than the GEC 6AS7 - it is an excellent sounding tube.


----------



## chrisdrop

Thanks for the comments.



L0rdGwyn said:


> I think the Bendix are best if you don't have a pair I would give them a try!  I tend to prefer other power tubes over 6080s though overall.


I have just gotten a _pair_ of Bendix and think they sound great. I had been preferring 4x 6080 before and don't fancy my chances at getting 4x NOS Bendix 6080s!

FWIW - I don't really know what makes 4x better than 2x (or 6x better than 4 in the 6B*7 case), but more does seem better! As a friend of mine often says; "more is more".



mordy said:


> You may consider mixing one pair of GEC with something different (and less expensive).


It is funny you mention this. I have the aforementioned 2x Bendix 6080s and was just yesterday wondering about pairing w/ 'other' (less expensive!) 6080s. I will give that a go based on your suggestion.



L0rdGwyn said:


> I tend to prefer other power tubes over 6080s though overall.


Until I purge my mains electrical demon, the 6080s tend to be least noisy overall. I haven't really been able to lean into the various "6 packs" for extended duration. The 6BL7s sound good, but respond poorly to the mains issue and are just noisy. The 6BX7s respond _very_ poorly to the mains issue (I have a dozen or so, including ones that I know worked in another GOTL) and they really amplify the mains cycle. Getting my dedicated mains line in on 10th Dec and various other activities ongoing to defeat the mains demon! I do wish I had a clue why some valves responded more/ less to the mains irritation (on GOTL and FA Euforia too). Enough mains moaning ..

_Since this is all about music; This post brought to you by a German musician; Apparat (whom I am off to see in town this evening w/ Telfon tel Aviv!)

_
Ah - and @Velozity - tx for the Anatole ref. Enjoying it today.



UsoppNoKami said:


> Loving the GEC 6J5 ST driver pair with the Sylvania 6BL7 sextet and WE422A.



Glad you are enjoying the 6J5s. I have been new to them and really enjoying 100% of them put in the amp. Not possible without @Deyan  as you say!


----------



## OctavianH

chrisdrop said:


> I do wish I had a clue why some valves responded more/ less to the mains irritation (on GOTL and FA Euforia too). Enough mains moaning ..



Maybe the Gain factor?

Here are some tube amplification factors for power tubes and the ones you mention to be the best seem to have the lowest gain factor:
6BL7 = 15
6BX7 = 10
5998 = 5
6AS7 / 6H13C / 6080 = 2


----------



## chrisdrop

OctavianH said:


> Maybe the Gain factor?
> 
> Here are some tube amplification factors for power tubes and the ones you mention to be the best seem to have the lowest gain factor:
> 6BL7 = 15
> ...


Quite reasonable thought for outputs. For inputs, I have an 6SL7 in which has a very high gain factor (?70) but is quiet. Perhaps the hum principally gets magnified in the outputs... that may be true. I'd need to consult my crazy experiment list to see what I have done in that space. Tx @OctavianH


----------



## mordy (Dec 4, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> Maybe the Gain factor?
> 
> Here are some tube amplification factors for power tubes and the ones you mention to be the best seem to have the lowest gain factor:
> 6BL7 = 15
> ...


Was just going to say the same thing - tubes with higher gain amplify the signal more and accentuate noise. This is why 6080/6AS7 tubes may sound better in some situations - less amplification of noise and hum.
I still do not have the answer to what happens with the multiplication factor when you mix tubes, as an example a pair of 6080 with a pair of 6BL7.
I have heard that it goes to the lowest number, in other words to 2 in the above scenario, but need confirmation on this.
(This may be a question for Misha on the 1101 Audio thread.)

PS: Not sure of this, but it appears to me that driver tubes with high/low gain affect the volume of the amp, whereas the amplification factor of the output tubes has more of an effect on noise and hum. But the latter is speculation - don't know if this is correct because driver tubes can be plenty noisy or hum badly as well.


----------



## OctavianH

I read here on this thread in the past about this and made a personal note in my own archives, and I think it was @Xcalibur255 who said:


> There are a number of ways to configure gain stages in tubes, and I know more about some than others. In the case of the 6 x 6BX7 even though you have all those tubes they only represent a single gain stage. It's similar to the difference between wiring batteries in parallel vs. in series. Having 3 tubes in parallel allows improves the ability to drive the load by lowering output impedance and increasing the amount of current available, but each additional tube does not add any gain or (mu) in this scenario. The gain is 10 whether there is single 6BX7 or a dozen when wired in this fashion. There are others ways this could be configured which would give different results and can result in gain multiplying. So the 6SN7 starts you out with a gain or (mu) of 20 and the three paralleled 6BX7 on each channel all together multiply this existing value by it's own gain value which is 10, which gives us 20 x 10 = 200.



I hope this clarifies a little bit.


----------



## mordy

OctavianH said:


> I read here on this thread in the past about this and made a personal note in my own archives, and I think it was @Xcalibur255 who said:
> 
> 
> I hope this clarifies a little bit.


Thanks, sounds reasonable. However, using a driver tube that has a gain of 70 together with 6x6BL7 should equal 70x15=1050.
This is five times more than your example of a 6SN7 and 6BX7 tubes with a gain of 200. I have tried such combinations, and even if it sounds louder, it is nowhere near 5 times louder so it must be a logarithmic  scale of some kind.
And we still need to know how mixing output tubes of different gains affects the mu.


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Thanks, sounds reasonable. However, using a driver tube that has a gain of 70 together with 6x6BL7 should equal 70x15=1050.
> This is five times more than your example of a 6SN7 and 6BX7 tubes with a gain of 200. I have tried such combinations, and even if it sounds louder, it is nowhere near 5 times louder so it must be a logarithmic  scale of some kind.
> And we still need to know how mixing output tubes of different gains affects the mu.



Another odd one. That your 2 kinds of different mu outputs make me think of...

Adding to the c3g slots (with a functioning input and output setup already) I remember making the overall volume went down. That surprised me. I guess this has to do with how the input tubes work together..


----------



## Xcalibur255

pippen99 said:


> Thanks for chiming in.  EML is the way I am leaning after a lot of searching.  The best price I have found so far with recommendations is JAC Music.  Has anyone dealt with them?  Good, bad or indifferent?


I have bought from Jac before and he is good to buy from.  He is a part owner of EML, so you are kind of going right to the source when you buy those tubes from him.  There is a US reseller called TubesUSA as well.  No experience with them.


----------



## pippen99

Sent a price quote request last night.  No response yet but not a problem.  it's early!


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Thanks, sounds reasonable. However, using a driver tube that has a gain of 70 together with 6x6BL7 should equal 70x15=1050.
> This is five times more than your example of a 6SN7 and 6BX7 tubes with a gain of 200. I have tried such combinations, and even if it sounds louder, it is nowhere near 5 times louder so it must be a logarithmic  scale of some kind.
> And we still need to know how mixing output tubes of different gains affects the mu.



The relationship isn't linear.  1000 won't be 5x louder than 200.  The exact mathematical relationship is beyond my current understanding though I'm afraid.  I've never run across a really good in-depth discussion on it.  There are other parts of the circuit design that affect overall gain too.  If you have output transformers some is loss in the stepdown ratio there, and the input stage sensitivity affects it too.  The main thing with gain is to really be aware of how much you have in each stage because it can be a source of increased noise.


----------



## pippen99

On the same subject EML, my research noted a lot of love for the 2A3 solid plate over the mesh.  Some thought the mesh to be too airy.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> The relationship isn't linear.  1000 won't be 5x louder than 200.  The exact mathematical relationship is beyond my current understanding though I'm afraid.  I've never run across a really good in-depth discussion on it.  There are other parts of the circuit design that affect overall gain too.  If you have output transformers some is loss in the stepdown ratio there, and the input stage sensitivity affects it too.  The main thing with gain is to really be aware of how much you have in each stage because it can be a source of increased noise.


Looks like it's down to trial and error......
Re triple drivers I also noted that the volume may go down, but at the same time the sound fills out.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Dec 4, 2019)

@pippen99 

That's a deep rabbit hole.  I've been thinking about this for years and I still am uncertain which type I would buy.  That's half the reason why I haven't yet.  Every discussion I have ever read comparing EML solid plate vs. mesh plate has been completely unhelpful in steering me towards one in particular.  Some of the information out there is also old and not applicable anymore.  People used to recommend against mesh plates in the past because they were less reliable, but this was a decade ago and those problems have been solved now.  You still see it come up though as a factor of consideration.

I think the "safe" choice is always going to be a solid plate.  The big feature of mesh plate tubes is the way the damping is affected by that plate design.  But exactly what effect this has on the sound seems to be something intangible that people have a hard time describing.  I know some people love whatever it does, but it really seems like one of those things you just have to try for yourself and find out.  It's an awfully expensive bit of curiosity to satisfy though.

I have to say, in the end, that I suspect either tube will sound nice.  We're really just talking about different flavors here when you think about it.  Sometimes I think we overthink these things.


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Looks like it's down to trial and error......
> Re triple drivers I also noted that the volume may go down, but at the same time the sound fills out.



In the case of an OTL it might be that you are moving the impedance relationship between the amp and your headphones closer to the ideal with that configuration.  Just a thought/guess.

There are so many variables and they all interact with each other.  It's no wonder this hobby attracts OCD prone people.


----------



## GDuss

If the 6x power tubes are in parallel, then the total amplification of the circuit should take into account that they are wired in parallel and is likely not simply multiplication or addition of the mu of each type (e.g. probably not 2 X 15 if using 6080 together with 6BL7).  If this were resistors in parallel, the math is straightforward, but I'm not sure what the math is for amplification in parallel.  Two resistors in parallel, where one is 2 ohms and the other is 15 ohms gives an output resistance of the circuit of 1.76 ohms, clearly closer to the lowest mu. 

I think it's the same for the driver tubes, where if you have both a 6SN7 and 2x C3g it's not a multiplication of the mu of the tube types but some other math that determines the final mu.  The final value may end up being closer to the mu of the lower amplification tube, depending on how the equation works.

Usual caveat applies here, that I could be totally wrong.


----------



## mordy

Read this article on how to measure the mu - came away with a big question mark; don't understand it....
http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/tubmatdem.html


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Read this article on how to measure the mu - came away with a big question mark; don't understand it....
> http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/tubmatdem.html



That article doesn't seem to address how to determine the total mu of a circuit where tubes of different types are in parallel.  So maybe that's the reason for the big question mark.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Read this article on how to measure the mu - came away with a big question mark; don't understand it....
> http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/tubmatdem.html



Explains how to come up with a single tubes mu number via math according to ohms law.  But, it does not address using multiple tubes. This was partially addressed in an earlier message. 

I have found that when a higher mu tube is used at the same time with a lower mu tube, the overall mu is at or near the value of the lower mu tube.


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> Explains how to come up with a single tubes mu number via math according to ohms law.  But, it does not address using multiple tubes. This was partially addressed in an earlier message.
> 
> I have found that when a higher mu tube is used at the same time with a lower mu tube, the overall mu is at or near the value of the lower mu tube.



The first time I used the EL32s in the C3g slots, I noticed that it decreased the volume compared to using a 6SN7 alone.  Based on the discussion with you (which people didn't see as it was in a PM), it became clear that was typical with the low mu of the EL32 (mu of 7) dropping down the mu of the 6SN7 (mu of 20).  This helped form the basis for the discussion above that the overall mu of a parallel circuit is probably somewhat similar to what happens with parallel resistance.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> I have just gotten a _pair_ of Bendix and think they sound great. I had been preferring 4x 6080 before and don't fancy my chances at getting 4x NOS Bendix 6080s!
> 
> FWIW - I don't really know what makes 4x better than 2x (or 6x better than 4 in the 6B*7 case), but more does seem better! As a friend of mine often says; "more is more".
> 
> Until I purge my mains electrical demon, the 6080s tend to be least noisy overall. I haven't really been able to lean into the various "6 packs" for extended duration. The 6BL7s sound good, but respond poorly to the mains issue and are just noisy. The 6BX7s respond _very_ poorly to the mains issue (I have a dozen or so, including ones that I know worked in another GOTL) and they really amplify the mains cycle. Getting my dedicated mains line in on 10th Dec and various other activities ongoing to defeat the mains demon! I do wish I had a clue why some valves responded more/ less to the mains irritation (on GOTL and FA Euforia too). Enough mains moaning ..



By paralleling more tubes, you are generating more current to drive the headphones and simultaneously lowering the output impedance which will give better definition of the low frequencies.

Is your mains issue related to grounding?  Not sure if it is the same in the UK, but in the US many old homes (like mine) do not have grounded outlets which causes all kinds of problems with audio gear (ground loops, mains noise leakage, etc.).  Tried using different outlets?  Conveniently in my house, the outlet closest to my system is the only one that isn't grounded  I use an extension cord to get to a grounded outlet or the noise is unbearable, will get around to grounding it eventually, but might be a big project.

One thing I have been looking into recently is getting an isolation transformer for my system, but have to research it further.


----------



## DecentLevi

chrisdrop said:


> Thanks for the comments.
> 
> I have just gotten a _pair_ of Bendix and think they sound great. I had been preferring 4x 6080 before and don't fancy my chances at getting 4x NOS Bendix 6080s!
> @Deyan  as you say!


I'm surprised nobody recommend the RCA 6080's. These easily fit the cheap requirement and have for many been a mainstay of solid performance. Very neutral and good rhythm handling, by far the best bang for the buck among 6080's IMO.


----------



## Monsterzero (Dec 4, 2019)

I like the RCA 6080s as well,though theyre very warm with ZMF headphones.

On a side cable note @Gopher dropped off another FTA Callisto USB cable for my RCA cable shootout. Thank you sir!


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I like the RCA 6080s as well,though theyre very warm with ZMF headphones.
> 
> On a side cable note @Gopher dropped off another FTA Callisto USB cable for my RCA cable shootout. Thank you sir!


Hi Monsterzero,
Since you quoted somebody that all cables detract from the sound, what are the drawbacks of doing away with the cables and going wireless?
Would it be feasible to connect different components wirelessly?


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Hi Monsterzero,
> Since you quoted somebody that all cables detract from the sound, what are the drawbacks of doing away with the cables and going wireless?
> Would it be feasible to connect different components wirelessly?


 I have no idea TBH. The last time I checked on wireless there were several drawbacks,including bit rate limitations. That may have been rectified(pun intended),but im old school in thought and age. I dont like to stream music,and I like to have a hardwired connection whenever possible,whether it be my computer or gaming consoles or audio gear.
I suppose getting into a DAC/amp all in one solution would eliminate the RCA cables from the equation. I am supposed to be receiving a new DAC/amp for review purposes sometime fairly soon. I doubt however that many folks here would be willing to ditch their Glenn.


----------



## gibosi (Dec 4, 2019)

Xcalibur255 said:


> @pippen99
> 
> That's a deep rabbit hole.  I've been thinking about this for years and I still am uncertain which type I would buy.  That's half the reason why I haven't yet.  Every discussion I have ever read comparing EML solid plate vs. mesh plate has been completely unhelpful in steering me towards one in particular.  Some of the information out there is also old and not applicable anymore.  People used to recommend against mesh plates in the past because they were less reliable, but this was a decade ago and those problems have been solved now.  You still see it come up though as a factor of consideration.
> 
> ...



My experience is with rectifiers, but I have no reason to think that drivers and output tubes would be substantially different....

I have Valvo and Telefunken AZ12 rectifiers, mesh and sheet metal, and in both cases the two versions were manufactured only a few years apart, with the mesh being the earliest and the sheet metal a few years later.

And in each case the most noticeable difference is in the highs, mesh plates are slightly less sharp. And to my mind this is due to the difference in the harmonic resonance of these materials. If you were to tap the sheet-metal plates, you would hear a metallic ringing sound. And if you were to tap the mesh plates, you would hear a very dull sound -- "damped" if you will. So it seems to me that the "ringing" of the sheet-metal plates is adding a bit more treble energy. And perhaps it is safe to say that the mesh plates are perhaps more neutral. Anyway, this is they way it seems to me. But of course, my ears and my gear...


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Dec 4, 2019)

gibosi said:


> My experience is with rectifiers, but I have no reason to think that drivers and output tubes would be substantially different....
> 
> I have Valvo and Telefunken AZ12 rectifiers, mesh and sheet metal, and in both cases the two versions were manufactured only a few years apart, with the mesh being the earliest and the sheet metal a few years later.
> 
> And in each case the most noticeable difference is in the highs, mesh plates are slightly less sharp. And to my mind this is due to the difference in the harmonic resonance of these materials. If you were to tap the sheet-metal plates, you would hear a metallic ringing sound. And if you were to tap the mesh plates, you would hear a very dull sound -- "damped" if you will. So it seems to me that the "ringing" of the sheet-metal plates is adding a bit more treble energy. And perhaps it is safe to say that the mesh plates are perhaps more neutral. Anyway, this is they way it seems to me. But of course, my ears and my gear...


 
Ever get around to trying that Nippon Electric 5R4-GY?  Curious to hear what you think as I will be using the NEC 5Z3 in my amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Dec 4, 2019)

gibosi said:


> My experience is with rectifiers, but I have no reason to think that drivers and output tubes would be substantially different....
> 
> I have Valvo and Telefunken AZ12 rectifiers, mesh and sheet metal, and in both cases the two versions were manufactured only a few years apart, with the mesh being the earliest and the sheet metal a few years later.
> 
> And in each case the most noticeable difference is in the highs, mesh plates are slightly less sharp. And to my mind this is due to the difference in the harmonic resonance of these materials. If you were to tap the sheet-metal plates, you would hear a metallic ringing sound. And if you were to tap the mesh plates, you would hear a very dull sound -- "damped" if you will. So it seems to me that the "ringing" of the sheet-metal plates is adding a bit more treble energy. And perhaps it is safe to say that the mesh plates are perhaps more neutral. Anyway, this is they way it seems to me. But of course, my ears and my gear...



I think you're on target here, it seems logical to me.  Any mechanical ringing is likely to have an effect on the sound, just like microphonics.  Ringing mostly affects high frequencies, and mesh has superior mechanical damping qualities.  I see a lot of people mention that the soundstage feels more "layered" with mesh tubes and that might be a side effect of the reduced ringing.

I've been leaning towards doing mesh for a good while now, if for no other reason than if I'm buying special expensive tubes I might as well go for the most special version.

edit:  of course what I REALLY want are those EML 45 Globes that they only made one time a decade ago.  Every once in a while somebody lets their spare pair from that one-time buy go and I think they're closing in on WE 300b prices now.  I will never have that kind of money to throw at this hobby so I'll have to settle for standard production meshies.


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ever get around to trying that Nippon Electric 5R4-GY?  Curious to hear what you think as I will be using the NEC 5Z3 in my amp.



I've never heard a 5R4 tube I didn't like.  Even the cheap RCAs are decent tubes, but I'm partial to the European ones like the Brimar and Philips.  Any amp that runs a 5U4 I will automatically sub a 5R4 into it instead.


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ever get around to trying that Nippon Electric 5R4-GY?  Curious to hear what you think as I will be using the NEC 5Z3 in my amp.



Unfortunately, I've been much too busy these past several weeks and haven't had much time to listen to music. And when I do have time, my current roll is so good that I have no desire to change it. 

But will try to find some time for the NEC 5R4GY soon. And like Xcalibur. I quite like the Brimar and Philips (La Radiotechique actually) and am curious to see how it compares.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, I've been much too busy these past several weeks and haven't had much time to listen to music. And when I do have time, my current roll is so good that I have no desire to change it.
> 
> But will try to find some time for the NEC 5R4GY soon. And like Xcalibur. I quite like the Brimar and Philips (La Radiotechique actually) and am curious to see how it compares.



I'm looking forward to it!


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, I've been much too busy these past several weeks and haven't had much time to listen to music. And when I do have time, my current roll is so good that I have no desire to change it.
> 
> But will try to find some time for the NEC 5R4GY soon. And like Xcalibur. I quite like the Brimar and Philips (La Radiotechique actually) and am curious to see how it compares.



*my current roll is so good that I have no desire to change it.....*

Been there.....
Yes, these things happen.... The journey is over, I've finally found what I really like - just sitting back and enjoying the music.
Beautiful, great, fantastic, wow! Fantabulous, scrumptious - feel free to fill in......

*Then it becomes the New Normal.*  Still great, but.....after a while  ( I am afraid to say it ) ---- a little boring - nothing new to try; 

Or is it?

Maybe I should try these? A French guy claims that they have more authority than the L63. Somebody told me that if you mix up the leads you can blow up your amp.





Wife: Why do you have so many glass thingamajigs?


----------



## DecentLevi (Dec 5, 2019)

That looks like a National Union 7193. For me on a former amp I was impressed by the KenRad 7193 but still preferred Sylvania straight glass or ST shaped Visseaux 6J5, and not much buzz about Natuonal Union brand in general. YMMV but maybe I just saved you some $$. The GEC MHLD6 look similar and seem promising but we'll have to wait till I get my amp and adapters.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

casual eBay browsing nearly gave me a heart attack:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Set-o...290037?hash=item1effd6dc35:g:rOkAAOSwwKZdRLiC

nice to drool over, now where can i find Santa?


----------



## whirlwind

UsoppNoKami said:


> casual eBay browsing nearly gave me a heart attack:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Set-o...290037?hash=item1effd6dc35:g:rOkAAOSwwKZdRLiC
> 
> nice to drool over, now where can i find Santa?




I saw those too...I am on the lookout for a WE422A....but only when the right deal comes along


----------



## UsoppNoKami

whirlwind said:


> I saw those too...I am on the lookout for a WE422A....but only when the right deal comes along



I'm glad I managed to get my pair of 422A (two singles) at sane(r) prices. @2359glenn gave me the heads up to look for these rectifiers very early on when I was finalising the spec for my GOTL.. phew! lol


----------



## dminches

Monsterzero said:


> Ive been thinking of the best way to do this cable shootout video. Im thinking I will choose a handful of songs across several genres that I own and know well. All will be redbook,or above.
> Play the same songs seven times,take notes,and shoot the video.
> Can you guys think of a better way to do it? Im open to suggestions.



Are you going to run into copyright issues if you post this on youtube? 

I find it close to impossible to gain meaningful sound information from low resolution youtube videos.  Maybe you can find a way to make this work.  Or maybe the video could just be to show the cables and talk about the differences.


----------



## leftside

UsoppNoKami said:


> I'm glad I managed to get my pair of 422A (two singles) at sane(r) prices. @2359glenn gave me the heads up to look for these rectifiers very early on when I was finalising the spec for my GOTL.. phew! lol


I asked the guy if he added an extra 0 by mistake.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> and I like to have a hardwired connection whenever possible,whether it be my computer or gaming consoles or audio gear.


I was just chatting with whirlwind about video games. You are the total opposite to me in regards to video games  All my PC games are downloaded via Steam and I use a wireless XBox controller  Currently going through the Wolfenstein games that I've missed. Fun with knives....


----------



## Monsterzero

Yeah I even have my PS4 controller hardwired. Less lag input. when youre old like me and play FPSers in PvP vs. teenagers with lightning fast reflexes I need all the help I can get.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> By paralleling more tubes, you are generating more current to drive the headphones and simultaneously lowering the output impedance which will give better definition of the low frequencies.
> 
> Is your mains issue related to grounding?  Not sure if it is the same in the UK, but in the US many old homes (like mine) do not have grounded outlets which causes all kinds of problems with audio gear (ground loops, mains noise leakage, etc.).  Tried using different outlets?  Conveniently in my house, the outlet closest to my system is the only one that isn't grounded  I use an extension cord to get to a grounded outlet or the noise is unbearable, will get around to grounding it eventually, but might be a big project.
> 
> One thing I have been looking into recently is getting an isolation transformer for my system, but have to research it further.



1st, thanks for the great set of comments regarding running tubes in parallel, etc. All fascinating and informative. 

Perhaps I am reading into this too much:

_>>which will give better definition of the low frequencies._

The mains gremlin manifests as 50/100Hz main harmonics hum (analogous to 60/120/ etc Hz in the US). Maybe that is another reason more outputs make more noise (low freqs) ?

2nd, my mains issue and experiments could fill a thread or three, so I will only make minor comments here for the sanity of all. When I have gotten to the bottom, I will post some summary so perhaps some poor sod might be saved some grief. Will prevail! (and yes, tried the things you suggested - thank you for the suggestions). 

I am getting a dedicated mains circuit next week and possibly sinking a copper rod for an additional earthing (ground) also. Let's see how we do ..


----------



## Monsterzero

dminches said:


> Are you going to run into copyright issues if you post this on youtube?
> 
> I find it close to impossible to gain meaningful sound information from low resolution youtube videos.  Maybe you can find a way to make this work.  Or maybe the video could just be to show the cables and talk about the differences.


 Yeah,no I wont be actually playing the music in the video. In my TRP video I played a 10 second clip of a song,and within 24 hours YouTube had messaged me saying I had violated the copyright rules,but the owner(Univeral music)decided not to force me to pull the video.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Dec 5, 2019)

leftside said:


> I was just chatting with whirlwind about video games. You are the total opposite to me in regards to video games  All my PC games are downloaded via Steam and I use a wireless XBox controller  Currently going through the Wolfenstein games that I've missed. Fun with knives....





Monsterzero said:


> Yeah I even have my PS4 controller hardwired. Less lag input. when youre old like me and play FPSers in PvP vs. teenagers with lightning fast reflexes I need all the help I can get.



Wow you guys are gamers?  I am a PC gamer myself, like Leftside I have everything on Steam.  I do use a wired PS4 controller most often though, I hate when the Bluetooth connection drops or I get input lag.

Taking this way off topic, but this is my PC I put together earlier this year, small form factor mini-ITX, really happy with it.  Old one is now an HTPC.  Running an Intel Core i7-8700K and Nvidia RTX 2080.  To get the CPU temps to a happy place in such a small chassis, I removed the heatspreader from the CPU and applied liquid metal directly to the CPU dye and put it all back together.  Also using a solid copper heat sink.  Voids the warranty, but now cool as a cucumber.


  



chrisdrop said:


> 1st, thanks for the great set of comments regarding running tubes in parallel, etc. All fascinating and informative.
> 
> Perhaps I am reading into this too much:
> 
> ...



Okay, back to audio.  I don't think the number of outputs and the effect on output impedance and damping factor is related to the 50/100Hz noise, that to me sounds like a grounding issue.  If there is a grounding issue, your tubes may be picking up noise from the power supply, so having more tubes in place is going to amplify the noise.  But looks like you've done all of the troubleshooting already and are taking steps to fix it!  Hope it works out, let us know how it goes.


----------



## Velozity

Random post:  Check out this car window decal I found on Amazon after a Google search of GOTL.  I had to have one!  I put it on my Nanuk case that I use to ferry the amp between home and office.  Or to a Head-Fi meet if I ever make it to one...


----------



## Xcalibur255

You never know what might be on topic.  

I'm embarking on the beginning of an ITX build myself soon.  My current machine is now 10 years old so I think it's time.  My 6th sense is telling me the original OCZ Vertex 3 SSD in it is about to belly up.  A firmware update to it 9 years ago broke the SSD life reporting so I have no idea many program/erase cycles it has actually performed.  With my luck the thing will blue screen a week before I'm ready to replace it.

The size and simplicity of the ITX builds are appealing to me.  In the past I would have thought otherwise just because cable management in those little cases used to be miserable, but these days you can go M.2 storage drive right on the motherboard and with no other optical or disc drives that means there are no SATA or power cables to manage anymore.  Just the 20+4 and header connections.

It took forever to find a case I like but I finally found one (Lian Li TU-150).


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> You never know what might be on topic.
> 
> I'm embarking on the beginning of an ITX build myself soon.  My current machine is now 10 years old so I think it's time.  My 6th sense is telling me the original OCZ Vertex 3 SSD in it is about to belly up.  A firmware update to it 9 years ago broke the SSD life reporting so I have no idea many program/erase cycles it has actually performed.  With my luck the thing will blue screen a week before I'm ready to replace it.
> 
> ...


That's right. When I did my upgrade this time last year it was great to see the SSD snap directly onto the motherboard.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Velozity said:


> Random post:  Check out this car window decal I found on Amazon after a Google search of GOTL.  I had to have one!  I put it on my Nanuk case that I use to ferry the amp between home and office.  Or to a Head-Fi meet if I ever make it to one...



Geneva on the Lake, that's in my neck of the woods!  Little getaway lake town, this is too funny.



Xcalibur255 said:


> You never know what might be on topic.
> 
> I'm embarking on the beginning of an ITX build myself soon.  My current machine is now 10 years old so I think it's time.  My 6th sense is telling me the original OCZ Vertex 3 SSD in it is about to belly up.  A firmware update to it 9 years ago broke the SSD life reporting so I have no idea many program/erase cycles it has actually performed.  With my luck the thing will blue screen a week before I'm ready to replace it.
> 
> ...



Absolutely, much easier to fit together than it used to be and some of the small chassis are very attractive.  Lian Li makes great stuff, they actually produce the case I am using, very high quality.  Most ITX boards also come with built in Bluetooth/wifi chips which is nice.  Obviously only a single PCI-E slot, but most of the time that's all you need.  Good luck!


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Wow you guys are gamers?  I am a PC gamer myself, like Leftside I have everything on Steam.  I do use a wired PS4 controller most often though, I hate when the Bluetooth connection drops or I get input lag.
> 
> Taking this way off topic, but this is my PC I put together earlier this year, small form factor mini-ITX, really happy with it.  Old one is now an HTPC.  Running an Intel Core i7-8700K and Nvidia RTX 2080.  To get the CPU temps to a happy place in such a small chassis, I removed the heatspreader from the CPU and applied liquid metal directly to the CPU dye and put it all back together.  Also using a solid copper heat sink.  Voids the warranty, but now cool as a cucumber.
> 
> ...




Dang video card is as big as the case!  Plugging ssd drives directly to mobo is a nice feature for small case.
My last gaming set-up was GTX570 in SLI.

I should have kept gaming, while I thought it was expensive.....I found out it was cheap compared to head-fi


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Dang video card is as big as the case!  Plugging ssd drives directly to mobo is a nice feature for small case.
> My last gaming set-up was GTX570 in SLI.
> 
> I should have kept gaming, while I thought it was expensive.....I found out it was cheap compared to head-fi



I know, right?!  Sometimes getting lost in a game saves me money, keeps me away from eBay and Head-Fi  haven't had much time for it lately.

I think that case is the smallest volume case on the market that can accept a full-size graphics card, kinda cool.


----------



## Velozity

Ooh you guys are gamers too?  I'm not really but my son is.  He wants an RX580 video card for Christmas.  Any good?


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I know, right?!  Sometimes getting lost in a game saves me money, keeps me away from eBay and Head-Fi  haven't had much time for it lately.


 Ive been sunk into Outer Worlds lately. Great game! Made by the same folks who did Fallout: New Vegas. Same type of game,so if you like Fallout or Oblivion,you will like this one too.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Ive been sunk into Outer Worlds lately. Great game! Made by the same folks who did Fallout: New Vegas. Same type of game,so if you like Fallout or Oblivion,you will like this one too.



I was going to play Outer Worlds, then started playing a much weirder indie game instead called Disco Elysium.  It is a very dialogue-driven mystery RPG, not an action game, but very well-done, very "cerebral", hard to describe but very interesting.  I'll get to the Outer Worlds soon, but my girlfriend started playing Monster Hunter World so I am trying to show her the ropes on that lol the learning curve is very steep for someone who doesn't really play video games, but man is she giving it her best shot.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I was going to play Outer Worlds, then started playing a much weirder indie game instead called Disco Elysium.  It is a very dialogue-driven mystery RPG, not an action game, but very well-done, very "cerebral", hard to describe but very interesting.  I'll get to the Outer Worlds soon, but my girlfriend started playing Monster Hunter World so I am trying to show her the ropes on that lol the learning curve is very steep for someone who doesn't really play video games, but man is she giving it her best shot.


 I played Monster Hunter World. It got dull after a couple months for me. I just found myself spamming buttons as fast as I could.....and it worked. 

I will go back to Destiny 2 after I finish Outer Worlds,or even better,Cyberpunk 2077 will be out....soon,I hope.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> I played Monster Hunter World. It got dull after a couple months for me. I just found myself spamming buttons as fast as I could.....and it worked.
> 
> I will go back to Destiny 2 after I finish Outer Worlds,or even better,Cyberpunk 2077 will be out....soon,I hope.



Yeah definitely isn't for everyone.  I have had a hard time getting into Destiny 2, I was big on Destiny 1.  Every time I go back to try and get into D2, the gameplay mechanics and leveling change and I don't feel like learning the new way to grind through it all.  Cyperpunk 2077 is shaping up to be a masterpiece.

I am also a big fan of a fantasy horror series called Dark Souls, that's where my avatar comes from  studio also made Bloodborne and Sekiro.


----------



## leftside (Dec 5, 2019)

The best game I've played the last couple of years was Dishonored 2. Cyberpunk is on my wishlist.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have had a hard time getting into Destiny 2, I was big on Destiny 1. Every time I go back to try and get into D2, the gameplay mechanics and leveling change and I don't feel like learning the new way to grind through it all.


I wont even try to make excuses for Bungie. Im one of their biggest critics. The state in which D2 was released was inexcusable. They have however made some strides in other areas,and mostly fixed many of the glaring issue that the game had on release.
For me its mostly just something to do to kill time. Like Dennis DeYoung,I have too much on my hands.


----------



## DecentLevi (Dec 6, 2019)

Though I haven't had time for video games since I was young, it's ironic you should mention Dennis DeYoung. I've only known him through Styx, although I have two breakout albums on the way from someone called *Dennis Young*. A self taught virtuoso of percussion including drums and marimba as well as keyboardist, his music opens a window where tribal African, Latin and electronic sounds meld seemlessly in a very singular way. As a plus a lot of his older work seem to have great analogue mastering.

Check out his defining Primitive Substance album which complies his 80's work. I also recommend his album Old Dog: New Tricks.

*Dennis Young - Safari Western*


One that note it would be a crime not to mention Sérgio Mendes. An accomplished Brazilian musician who has released over 55 albums since the 60's exploring jazz, funk and Latin.
Here's a good example from his 1996 album Oceano. I also recommend his album Brasiliero - the mastering is exquisite on both, and some are available on vinyl.

*Sérgio Mendes - Maracatudo (1996)*


----------



## OctavianH

leftside said:


> The best game I've played the last couple of years was Dishonored 2. Cyberpunk is on my wishlist.



I've been a huge fan of the Dishonored series and played several times each game for completion (different levels of chaos or specific achievements). 
However, I liked also Prey. It has some atmosphere and feeling which reminds me of Dishonored. So if you have not tried it, you should.

Regarding Cyberpunk, I will say only that I hope that Zen 3 and Ampere are out at decent prices until April. Until then, I'll stick to my 4790K @ 4.5GHz and GTX 1080Ti.


----------



## felix3650

Another tube/gamer here too. Gaming on a nice big screen and with high-end headphones is quite the experience. I usually immerse myself in a 40" FHD tv connected to my MSI GT73VR notebook (i7-6820HK, GTX1080) and through the Holo Cyan R2R to my Auteur. Next addition will be the GEL3N


----------



## dminches

I have a Western Electric 422A tube that I am going to sell.  If someone here is interested please send me a PM.

The tube tests over 100+ on both sides on my Jackson 648.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

dminches said:


> I have a Western Electric 422A tube that I am going to sell.  If someone here is interested please send me a PM.
> 
> The tube tests over 100+ on both sides on my Jackson 648.



Nice Jackson, I restored one a few months ago, getting tons of use out of it.  Good luck with your sale, someone will grab that, early model with gray plates.  Only Western Electric rectifier I will be able to use in my upcoming MH4 amp is the 274A, time will tell if I am crazy enough to buy one.


----------



## leftside

OctavianH said:


> I've been a huge fan of the Dishonored series and played several times each game for completion (different levels of chaos or specific achievements).
> However, I liked also Prey. It has some atmosphere and feeling which reminds me of Dishonored. So if you have not tried it, you should.
> 
> Regarding Cyberpunk, I will say only that I hope that Zen 3 and Ampere are out at decent prices until April. Until then, I'll stick to my 4790K @ 4.5GHz and GTX 1080Ti.


"Only" 2 play-throughs for me. Once with Emily/100% stealth and with Corvo/mix of stealth and chaos. I purchased Prey in a Steam sale, but haven't played it (yet). 

I have a Panasonic plasma TV from the last year they were made, so no need for me to upgrade my GTX 1070 graphics card until I upgrade the TV. I tend to upgrade my TV every 10 years, so only 4 more years to go


----------



## leftside

Surprised this pair of NOS slot plate Bendix stayed under $200. We've seen single well used ones sell for $120-$140 recently.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-JAN...cuum-Tube-Pair-NOS-Noise-Tested-/174110766058


----------



## chrisdrop

leftside said:


> Surprised this pair of NOS slot plate Bendix stayed under $200. We've seen single well used ones sell for $120-$140 recently.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-JAN...cuum-Tube-Pair-NOS-Noise-Tested-/174110766058


Sad to have missed :/


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I was very fortunate to get a NOS pair for $150 earlier this year, not my first but at that price I had to buy them.


----------



## leftside

I've been cleaning/recleaning a bunch of my tubes/pins before using them with the new amp, and noticed there are quite a few structural difference with those Bendix tubes. Double halo getters, double D getters, solid graphite plates, slotted graphite plates, copper rods, etc. Haven't had time to tell if there are any sound differences. The slotted plates have been mentioned before, and were probably more expensive to make.


----------



## Monsterzero

felix3650 said:


> Another tube/gamer here too. Gaming on a nice big screen


 We bought a 65" OLED flat screen the first year they came out. Prior to that they only made those curved screen....yuck. Anyways,nobody knew back then that OLEDs are prone to screen burn-in. Well ive damn near ruined my OLED,thanks to Destiny 2 HUD's imprint being permanently on my screen.  
We bought a 65" QLED last weekend,which supposedly do not burn in. Being delivered Sunday. Its a nice TV,but no OLED. The good TV is moving to the family room,burned in screen and all,and I will get the new TV. First world problems.


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Dec 6, 2019)

Popped in a pair of Siemens EL11 in my GOTL amp tonight. Gain is a bit high with 6x 6BL7, though I do like the tonality.. prob try 6as7g tomorrow. Nice looking tubes & adaptors


----------



## gibosi

UsoppNoKami said:


> Popped in a pair of Siemens EL11 in my GOTL amp tonight. Gain is a bit high with 6x 6BL7, though I do like the tonality.. prob try 6as7g tomorrow. Nice looking tubes & adaptors



FYI, to the best of my knowledge, Siemens never manufactured the EL11. To my eyes, these look like Loewe Opta production.


----------



## mordy

L-O = Philips?


----------



## gibosi (Dec 6, 2019)

mordy said:


> L-O = Philips?


 
Yes, Loewe Opta was a Philips subsidiary with manufacturing facilities located in Berlin-Steglitz. However, it appears that Philips did not use the Loewe Opta brand after acquiring the company in the mid 1950's. Most of their EL11 production was sold under the Valvo brand.


----------



## Zachik

Can I use these in the OTL?






https://www.ebay.com/i/312869750286

Don't even care how they sound - they look so cool...


----------



## DecentLevi (Dec 6, 2019)

Thanks to a recommendation from someone here recently I won an auction for this pair of metal RCA VT-94 (6J5) for only $5. I take it this metal version is comparable to the Sylvania glass VT-94D's with metal base - or at least a good 6J5?


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Can I use these in the OTL?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## leftside

5693 to C3g adapter for the 300B amp as well? I presume not.


----------



## GDuss

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks to a recommendation from someone here recently I won an auction for this pair of metal RCA VT-94 (6J5) for only $5. I take it this metal version is comparable to the Sylvania glass VT-94D's with metal base - or at least a good 6J5?



I've been having really good luck lately with these metal RCA 6J5s, especially the VT-94s.  I have quite a few of them now, and some Ken Rad and TS 6J5s as well.  Having said that, I'm currently listening to 4x 6BX7s (because I'm 2 short of a 6-pack ) and a pair of metal RCA *6C5s* (which are surprisingly quiet with no jumper in the adapter).  I tried these 6C5s a few nights ago with a pair of TS 5998s and they were quiet, so I decided to up the amplification to 6BX7s and see how it did.  They're still great.  I got these 6C5s at 4 for $6 and they could give way more expensive tubes a run for the money.  Like I said a month ago or so, I probably shouldn't talk about this as if we all start saying it, prices will go up.  But there are a lot of them around right now, much cheaper than the 6SN7s.  

Thanks to @mordy and @JazzVinyl for suggesting these.  @L0rdGwyn too, for making the convincing statement of changing the C3g slots to 6J5 (and then selling his 6SN7s).

And in the spirit of @chrisdrop , this post is brought to you by Soulive's album "Live at the Blue Note Tokyo".  Sorry Chris, no Tidal link.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> 5693 to C3g adapter for the 300B amp as well? I presume not.



Yes that tube will work in the 300B amp but I have no idea how it sounds. think it is similar to a 6SJ7.


----------



## GDuss

Now I'm listening to Jimmie Vaughan Trio, Live at C-Boy's.  Sounds like I'm in the club while this is being recorded.  The only way I know that I'm not actually there is that the drinks are cheaper, and there is no line for the bathroom .


----------



## UsoppNoKami

gibosi said:


> FYI, to the best of my knowledge, Siemens never manufactured the EL11. To my eyes, these look like Loewe Opta production.





gibosi said:


> Yes, Loewe Opta was a Philips subsidiary with manufacturing facilities located in Berlin-Steglitz. However, it appears that Philips did not use the Loewe Opta brand after acquiring the company in the mid 1950's. Most of their EL11 production was sold under the Valvo brand.



Nice mate, thanks for the info


----------



## DecentLevi

GDuss said:


> I've been having really good luck lately with these metal RCA 6J5s, especially the VT-94s.  I have quite a few of them now, and some Ken Rad and TS 6J5s as well.  Having said that, I'm currently listening to 4x 6BX7s (because I'm 2 short of a 6-pack ) and a pair of metal RCA *6C5s* (which are surprisingly quiet with no jumper in the adapter).  I tried these 6C5s a few nights ago with a pair of TS 5998s and they were quiet, so I decided to up the amplification to 6BX7s and see how it did.  They're still great.  I got these 6C5s at 4 for $6 and they could give way more expensive tubes a run for the money.  Like I said a month ago or so, I probably shouldn't talk about this as if we all start saying it, prices will go up.  But there are a lot of them around right now, much cheaper than the 6SN7s.
> 
> Thanks to @mordy and @JazzVinyl for suggesting these.  @L0rdGwyn too, for making the convincing statement of changing the C3g slots to 6J5 (and then selling his 6SN7s).
> 
> And in the spirit of @chrisdrop , this post is brought to you by Soulive's album "Live at the Blue Note Tokyo".  Sorry Chris, no Tidal link.


Cool post... but you said you've been having especially good luck with the metal VT-94s then went on to talk about the RCA 6C5 - this threw me for a curve ball. Which one did you prefer and why?


----------



## GDuss

DecentLevi said:


> Cool post... but you said you've been having especially good luck with the metal VT-94s then went on to talk about the RCA 6C5 - this threw me for a curve ball. Which one did you prefer and why?



At this point I doubt I could distinguish a metal RCA 6C5 from a metal RCA 6J5 in a blind listening test.  Maybe they sound different but I can't say that yet.  So I'm basically putting them together in the same category of enjoyment vs price.  And yes, I've had good luck with the VT-94 versions of the 6J5, and the VT-65 versions of the 6C5.

As has been mentioned already on this thread, I'm not sure if the Ken Rad and Tung Sol metal 6J5s I have are actually made by KR and TS, or whether they're just RCAs, but they're good too.

Have you listened to yours yet?  If so, what do you think?


----------



## DecentLevi

Great, so these are all in the same league of performance. Nope I'm just building a nifty collection of tubes (in addition to my current for the Euforia tube amp) in anticipation for my upcoming GOTC SET amp (Glenn output-transformerless single ended triode) GEL3N-based amp.

Anyone got to hear my latin music on the last of the previous page?


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Yes that tube will work in the 300B amp but I have no idea how it sounds. think it is similar to a 6SJ7.


Just to clarify:
I was only drawn to these due to their REALLY cool red color!! No idea how they sound 
From a quick search online - the 5693 are the military rugged version of 6SJ7, so I *assume* they *should* sound somewhat similar.

Glenn - while waiting for my masterpiece (a.k.a. 6EL3N), I am becoming too bored for my own good...


----------



## chrisdrop

After @mordy's enthusiasm for the RCA metal encased 6J5s last week, a few days back I put these in. I am glad to see that others here are also enjoying them. 

 

My general conclusion is that they are every bit as good as the Sylvania GTs that I had in last week. I am really having a hard time .. finding 6J5s that aren't really pleasing. I be surprised if there are not more @L0rdGwyn style c3g -> 6J5 amp requests in the future.


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Just to clarify:
> I was only drawn to these due to their REALLY cool red color!! No idea how they sound
> From a quick search online - the 5693 are the military rugged version of 6SJ7, so I *assume* they *should* sound somewhat similar.
> 
> Glenn - while waiting for my masterpiece (a.k.a. 6EL3N), I am becoming too bored for my own good...


 I believe UntilThen used those reds in his old La Figaro 339 and liked them


----------



## whirlwind

Just rolled in the 53KU this morning.....listening to Peter Frampton Band - All Blues with LCD-3 pre-fazor


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> Yes, Loewe Opta was a Philips subsidiary with manufacturing facilities located in Berlin-Steglitz. However, it appears that Philips did not use the Loewe Opta brand after acquiring the company in the mid 1950's. Most of their EL11 production was sold under the Valvo brand.



Speaking of of Loewe Opta, I'm continuing to expand my REN904 collection with this pair.  Pre Philips acquisition with Opta branding, pretty cool.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> After @mordy's enthusiasm for the RCA metal encased 6J5s last week, a few days back I put these in. I am glad to see that others here are also enjoying them.
> 
> 
> 
> My general conclusion is that they are every bit as good as the Sylvania GTs that I had in last week. I am really having a hard time .. finding 6J5s that aren't really pleasing. I be surprised if there are not more @L0rdGwyn style c3g -> 6J5 amp requests in the future.



I don't have any of the red label RCA metal tubes yet, only white labels, most of them the meatball logo, a few say either Radiotron or Victor on them.  I need to try the ones you have.


----------



## chrisdrop

GDuss said:


> I don't have any of the red label RCA metal tubes yet, only white labels, most of them the meatball logo, a few say either Radiotron or Victor on them.  I need to try the ones you have.


Billington has them for I think £5 each FWIW.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Can I use these in the OTL?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Zachik,
The 5693 is a long life version of the 6J7. It is interesting to note that the 6C5 is a derivative of the 6J7. The 6J7 is a pentode, and the 6C5 is a triode. In essence, the manufacturer took a 6J7 pentode and changed it to produce a triode. 

"The 6C5 was originally made from a pentode, 6J7, with extra elements internally connected to the plate to operate as a triode."

 Re the 6C5 and 6J5, they are usually interchangeable, but made differently.


----------



## Monsterzero (Dec 7, 2019)

Well,I have whittled down over 77,000 songs to just a bakers dozen for my RCA cable test. In case anyone is interested,here is the current lineup for the shootout,and things I will be listening for from each track...Sorry no Hotel California 

Enter Sandman-Metallica 24/96 > dynamics (metal)
One Fine Morning-Lighthouse 16/44.1>separation/smoothness with horns (prog/pop)
Into The Deep-Ajja & Cosmosis 16/44.1>dynamics>depth>sub bass quality,quantity (psybient)
Friend Of The Devil (remaster)-Grateful Dead 24/192>staging width,acoustic guitars (folk/jam)
Bridges of Fire-I 16/44.1>speed and layering (black metal)
Irukanji- Sonic Entity 16/44.1> dynamics,L/R panning,depth (psy trance)
Photosynthesis- Carbon Based Lifeforms 16/44.1> depth,speed,layering (psybient)
Diamonds and Rust-Joan Baez 16/44.1>female vocals,acoustic guitar (folk)
Pictures of Home- Deep Purple 24/96>male vocals,keyboards,guitars,drums (hard rock)
Bird of Paradise- Snowy White 16/44.1>smoothness,guitars (blues)
Come Together(2019 Mix)-Beatles 24/96>dynamics,layering(rock)
Pigs(Three Different Ones) (BG remaster) Pink Floyd 24/96> layering,imaging,depth (prog rock)
Pulse of the Dead-Parasite Inc. 16/44.1>speed,layering (melodeath metal)

Verite closed will be the headphone,with ZMF 2K cable
Tubes will be GEC U18/20+Ken Rad 6J5 metal base+ 6x 6bx7s

I might roll USB cables as well as @dminches is sending me one or two try out as well as some RCAs. This is going to be a long event for me. Hope it will help some members find the right cables for their tastes/systems.


----------



## maxpudding

Monsterzero said:


> Well,I have whittled down over 77,000 songs to just a bakers dozen for my RCA cable test. In case anyone is interested,here is the current lineup for the shootout,and things I will be listening for from each track...Sorry no Hotel California
> 
> Enter Sandman-Metallica 24/96 > dynamics (metal)
> One Fine Morning-Lighthouse 16/44.1>separation/smoothness with horns (prog/pop)
> ...



Thank you for the hardwork! Looking forward to the outcome.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Sorry no Hotel California


You lost me there!


----------



## dminches

Monsterzero said:


> I might roll USB cables as well as @dminches is sending me one or two try out as well as some RCAs. This is going to be a long event for me. Hope it will help some members find the right cables for their tastes/systems.



I actually sent you 3 USBs.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Dec 9, 2019)

Officially done with grad school, now I can get back to listening 

Been doing some back and forth with the Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plates and T-plates.  I've had the flat plates in the GOTL for about two weeks.  Really have enjoyed them during that time.  I rolled in the T-plates this morning to see how they compare.  To my ears they are brighter, slightly less separation and air than the flat plates, very detailed.  Bass on the flat plates goes a little deeper and hits harder.  But the T-plates are very enjoyable in their own way, great texture and perhaps better treble extension than the flat plates.  Overall, I prefer the flats, their rich bass is going very well with my morning techno, but both are excellent tubes.  Going to see how these flat plates compare to my top 6BX7 next, the Toshiba.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Comparing the Sylvania flat plate 6BL7GT to the Toshiba 6BX7GT (which I would characterize as slightly bright of neutral, uber detailed and very airy) shows how warm they are.  Also, the music is less close to the ear, a little more laid-back, makes for a non-fatiguing listen.  Very nice tubes, they are going to become regulars when I want a warm relaxing listen.

But, these Toshiba 6BX7GT...subconsciously, they have become my favorite power tubes in the GOTL, I just haven't said it out loud.  They have the best air and separation, staging out of any power tubes I have in the amp.  With the GOAT 6J5, the MOV L63 gray glass, the air is off the charts.  If anyone ever gets creative and delves into the Japanese online auction arena (a.k.a. Yahoo Auctions Japan), that is just about the only place to get a set of these power tubes, but I highly recommend them.  The problem is, they know how good they are in Japan, multiple bidders per auction, these tubes are being used regularly over there is some form or fashion.

There is a sense of thinness or lack of musicality to my chain and made worse with the Toshibas.  The thin quality is always there now and I attribute it to my DAC, the airness of the Toshibas tends to exacerbate it, but I don't fault the tubes...I am so eager to get my SW1X DAC and get a more full-bodied, musical listening experience.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Officially done with grad school, now I can get back to listening


 Congrats Keenan!


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> Officially done with grad school, now I can get back to listening





Monsterzero said:


> Congrats Keenan!



Definitely a big congrats on this accomplishment.


----------



## mordy

Congratulations on your degree!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Thanks everyone.  I've been working and going to school for so long, can't wait to just do my job, go home and relax!  Gonna be a big change.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks everyone.  I've been working and going to school for so long, can't wait to just do my job, go home and relax!  Gonna be a big change.



I finished graduate school in 2002 and I'm still waiting to be able to just do my job and then go home and relax.  Work has this amazing ability to follow me wherever I go.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Dec 9, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> We bought a 65" OLED flat screen the first year they came out. Prior to that they only made those curved screen....yuck. Anyways,nobody knew back then that OLEDs are prone to screen burn-in. Well ive damn near ruined my OLED,thanks to Destiny 2 HUD's imprint being permanently on my screen.
> We bought a 65" QLED last weekend,which supposedly do not burn in. Being delivered Sunday. Its a nice TV,but no OLED. The good TV is moving to the family room,burned in screen and all,and I will get the new TV. First world problems.



Yep.  I can think of no piece of technology on sale today that is more "min-maxed" than OLED tvs.  In some ways they are an amazing experience and in others a regressive frustrating disaster.  I bought an LG C9 this summer and I really wish I hadn't.  My Pioneer Kuro plasma hit 10 years old this year and it's getting pretty dim.  OLED is kind of the natural way to go for plasma owners, not just for the black levels but because we're used to displays that use impulse response based pixel refresh.  LCDs are just a headache inducing smear of colors to my eyes by comparison, no matter what sort of processing they throw at them to alleviate it.  Sample and hold is sample and hold whether it's 60hz or 480hz.

The OLED has been a nightmare though.  They are so thin and fragile that you can hardly move them without breaking them (I bent the screen standing it upright after attaching the stand, who designs a TV like this!!!).  They can't be around windows where direct sunlight comes in because something in the panel breaks down chemically and ruins the display.  It's FAR more susceptible to burn-in than my plasma ever was (I never really had any trouble with this over the years even while gaming) even with the panel brightness ratched way down.  I severely limit what kind of things I watch on it now due to the burn-in risk, and have fallen back to leaving the old plasma hooked up in the kitchen (small apartment life) for when I want to play a game.  But, the weirdest part is that these tvs have some kind of weird bug/design flaw that prevents them from outputting PCM stereo via any digital connnection properly.  The audio drops out every minute or so like it's being muted for a second or two, it does this over and over again and it's unfixable.  My whole setup is 2.0 PCM based and is all digital so if I want to use any of the internal apps for Netflix or what have you I have to put up with the audio dropouts.  Talked to the dealer I bought it from and was basically told "too bad, we've got your money, go away" in about that nice a way.

When the stars align and you get good 4K content the picture completely lives up to the hype, it's fabulous.  But there are far too many problems to justify it.  My advice to those tempted to scoop one of these up during the season's deals is to stay away.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

GDuss said:


> I finished graduate school in 2002 and I'm still waiting to be able to just do my job and then go home and relax.  Work has this amazing ability to follow me wherever I go.



Yeah I hear ya, depends on the field I am sure.  After undergrad I worked very briefly in management consulting, my free time was non-existent.  Now I will be a critical care nurse practitioner, luckily it is frowned upon to bring the patients home from the hospital, and I do not have to be on call like a physician, so work stays at work thankfully!


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Officially done with grad school, now I can get back to listening



Congrats!  That's a major milestone reached right there.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> Officially done with grad school, now I can get back to listening
> 
> Been doing some back and forth with the Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plates and T-plates.  I've had the flat plates in the GOTL for about two weeks.  Really have enjoyed them during that time.  I rolled in the T-plates this morning to see how they compare.  To my ears they are brighter, slightly less separation and air than the flat plates, very detailed.  Bass on the flat plates goes a little deeper and hits harder.  But the T-plates are very enjoyable in their own way, great texture and perhaps better treble extension than the flat plates.  Overall, I prefer the flats, their rich bass is going very well with my morning techno, but both are excellent tubes.  Going to see how these flat plates compare to my top 6BX7 next, the Toshiba.


Congrats on the life milestone.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Officially done with grad school, now I can get back to listening
> 
> Been doing some back and forth with the Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plates and T-plates.  I've had the flat plates in the GOTL for about two weeks.  Really have enjoyed them during that time.  I rolled in the T-plates this morning to see how they compare.  To my ears they are brighter, slightly less separation and air than the flat plates, very detailed.  Bass on the flat plates goes a little deeper and hits harder.  But the T-plates are very enjoyable in their own way, great texture and perhaps better treble extension than the flat plates.  Overall, I prefer the flats, their rich bass is going very well with my morning techno, but both are excellent tubes.  Going to see how these flat plates compare to my top 6BX7 next, the Toshiba.




Congrats Keenan.


----------



## Monsterzero

Xcalibur255 said:


> LCDs are just a headache inducing smear of colors to my eyes by comparison, no matter what sort of processing they throw at them to alleviate it. Sample and hold is sample and hold whether it's 60hz or 480hz.


 Dude,you aint lyin' the blurring on even minimal movement is out of control. Funny thing is I lived with LEDs/LCDs since they came out and never noticed it,but once you live with an OLED,and then go back to LED its almost unbearable.

On the bright side,its good for gaming,with a near 12 millisecond lag time.


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> Yep.  I can think of no piece of technology on sale today that is more "min-maxed" than OLED tvs.  In some ways they are an amazing experience and in others a regressive frustrating disaster.  I bought an LG C9 this summer and I really wish I hadn't.  My Pioneer Kuro plasma hit 10 years old this year and it's getting pretty dim.  OLED is kind of the natural way to go for plasma owners, not just for the black levels but because we're used to displays that use impulse response based pixel refresh.





Monsterzero said:


> Dude,you aint lyin' the blurring on even minimal movement is out of control. Funny thing is I lived with LEDs/LCDs since they came out and never noticed it,but once you live with an OLED,and then go back to LED its almost unbearable.
> 
> On the bright side,its good for gaming,with a near 12 millisecond lag time.


My first plasma was the Pioneer Kuro. Great TV. Left it on the wall of my first place that I sold for the next owner to enjoy.

Guys, please let me know when a TV technology comes out that betters plasma. I'm betting I'm good for another 4 years with the current Panasonic plasma.


----------



## Xcalibur255

IMO LCD has two massive problems that have existed since their first day on the market:  lack of proper light control at the pixel level (thus the poor contrast and black levels), and the natural negative side effects of sample and hold display refresh thanks to the way the human visual system processes moving images.  The dual panel LCDs coming next year will solve the former and finally give them per pixel light control without all the compromises of the "zoned" backlights we have right now.  The latter nobody seems to seriously want to take a shot at solving which amazes me considering how many people are sensitive to it.  I feel like the dual panel setups actually present the possibility of mimicking impulse refresh in software by timing the open and shutting of the secondary light control pixel.  I think maybe the reason nobody has tried is because it is detrimental to energy efficiency and that has always been the major focus in recent years, especially in the EU due to regulatory pressure.

By the time LCDs don't suck they'll be starting to test beaming the images directly into your brain.


----------



## Monsterzero (Dec 9, 2019)

leftside said:


> Guys, please let me know when a TV technology comes out that betters plasma. I'm betting I'm good for another 4 years with the current Panasonic plasma.


 IMO OLEDs are better than any TV thats ever been released,even better than the vaunted and rightfully legendary Kuro. Unfortunately for me,I game a lot with a static HUD that has imprinted into the screen permanently.
If you game frequently or watch Home Shopping Network 16 hours per day,I'd suggest steering clear of OLEDs.

EDIT: Or buy an OLED and the extended warranty and get a new one every two years when the screen burns in. I wouldve done that,but were moving to Arizona in 24 months and the place we buy from is regional only.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I've taken some time off in between jobs, had one day off so far and already going crazy so....

I've decided I am going to get serious about building my own amplifiers.  Found some nice video series on a high-level process of building a SET amp, so going to start there and also read a few books.  Surprised but much of the information I am already familiar with, but going to dive deeper into design theory, troubleshooting, test equipment, etc.  I have some physics and math education from my first degree so that will help.  There will definitely be some overhead cost to get started, I already have many of the building supplies from doing Bottlehead kits and GOTL mods, but will have to look into what test equipment is needed (oscilliscope, distortion analyzer, etc.).

Can't say when I will be comfortable enough to do a full build from start to finish, we will see!  I tend to obsess over projects, so maybe very soon.  SET is a good place to start though, pretty straightforward design, I was thinking building a new SET stereo amp would be my first project, with a headphone output of course  will have to switch to some high-efficiency speakers, but I am always happy to upgrade, maybe grab something from Zu Audio.

Getting way, way ahead of myself, but since I am on an MH4 tube kick, I thought these would be some cool tubes to use as drivers.  Equivalent to MH4, but uses an obsolete 7-pin socket, Radiotechnique PTT100.  Have a line on some of these and they come highly recommended.


----------



## Deyan

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've taken some time off in between jobs, had one day off so far and already going crazy so....
> 
> I've decided I am going to get serious about building my own amplifiers.  Found some nice video series on a high-level process of building a SET amp, so going to start there and also read a few books.  Surprised but much of the information I am already familiar with, but going to dive deeper into design theory, troubleshooting, test equipment, etc.  I have some physics and math education from my first degree so that will help.  There will definitely be some overhead cost to get started, I already have many of the building supplies from doing Bottlehead kits and GOTL mods, but will have to look into what test equipment is needed (oscilliscope, distortion analyzer, etc.).
> 
> ...



That's not an obsolete socket. It's the German post tubes socket.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Deyan said:


> That's not an obsolete socket. It's the German post tubes socket.



Right, what I meant was this socket is not being used in off-the-shelf amplifiers, I guess uncommon would have been a better way to put it.  No socket is obsolete for you, Deyan


----------



## Deyan

I guess there aren't any


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've taken some time off in between jobs, had one day off so far and already going crazy so....
> 
> I've decided I am going to get serious about building my own amplifiers.  Found some nice video series on a high-level process of building a SET amp, so going to start there and also read a few books.  Surprised but much of the information I am already familiar with, but going to dive deeper into design theory, troubleshooting, test equipment, etc.  I have some physics and math education from my first degree so that will help.  There will definitely be some overhead cost to get started, I already have many of the building supplies from doing Bottlehead kits and GOTL mods, but will have to look into what test equipment is needed (oscilliscope, distortion analyzer, etc.).
> 
> ...



Is it too early to get in the queue for a L0rdGwyn amp ?


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've taken some time off in between jobs, had one day off so far and already going crazy so....
> 
> I've decided I am going to get serious about building my own amplifiers.  Found some nice video series on a high-level process of building a SET amp, so going to start there and also read a few books.  Surprised but much of the information I am already familiar with, but going to dive deeper into design theory, troubleshooting, test equipment, etc.  I have some physics and math education from my first degree so that will help.  There will definitely be some overhead cost to get started, I already have many of the building supplies from doing Bottlehead kits and GOTL mods, but will have to look into what test equipment is needed (oscilliscope, distortion analyzer, etc.).
> 
> ...



I find this post inspirational.  The motivation and enthusiasm you display here is, to be honest, quite rare IMO even for serious hobbyists.  People like yourselves are the ones that keep all this alive too and carry it forward another generation.  I wish you both joy and success in your amp building endeavors.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

GDuss said:


> Is it too early to get in the queue for a L0rdGwyn amp ?



Haha I would say so!  Lots of learning to be done.  I am comfortable with the building aspect, testing and troubleshooting is where I need to focus my time.  I'll also be investing in some much-needed safety equipment (isolation transformer, dim bulb tester).  I'll certainly update here as I go along!



Xcalibur255 said:


> I find this post inspirational.  The motivation and enthusiasm you display here is, to be honest, quite rare IMO even for serious hobbyists.  People like yourselves are the ones that keep all this alive too and carry it forward another generation.  I wish you both joy and success in your amp building endeavors.



Thank you for your kind words.  Hopefully some success will come of it, there certainly will be growing pains, but the most satisfying experiences are not without their challenges.  Looking forward to having some fun with this


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> I find this post inspirational.  The motivation and enthusiasm you display here is, to be honest, quite rare IMO even for serious hobbyists.  People like yourselves are the ones that keep all this alive too and carry it forward another generation.  I wish you both joy and success in your amp building endeavors.


Mischa over on the 1101 Audio thread is also a young guy with great passion. The heavy Mac amps I have are a dying breed, but headfi gear (including with tubes) is getting more and more popular.


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> I find this post inspirational.  The motivation and enthusiasm you display here is, to be honest, quite rare IMO even for serious hobbyists.  People like yourselves are the ones that keep all this alive too and carry it forward another generation.  I wish you both joy and success in your amp building endeavors.



Well said, I agree.  

Custom tube amps are just too freakin cool IMO.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I've spoken with Glenn, turns out I am going to build my MH4 amp.  I've already sourced many of the parts and the chassis is being built, looks like I will be doing this sooner than I expected!

I was sort of getting all of this stuff ready to go for whenever Glenn was available to build it, guess I was leading myself down this path and didn't know it.  I've started drafting the schematic, with Glenn as my consultant.

Here are the Yamamoto sockets I will be using, these things are so expensive, but once you have them in hand you know why.  That middle rectifier socket can take 5V UX4 rectifiers (e.g., 5Z3, 80) or 4V European recifiers (e.g., 45-IU, U18/20, RGN2504).  A pair of series resistors will drop the voltage for the 4V rectifiers.


 

Here is the diagram from Landfall for the chassis.  It will be anodized in gold, should have it before Christmas.  I diagrammed it myself and sent it to them.  Sockets will be bottom mounted.  I moved the rectifier socket up 3/4 of an inch from the back row.  I will eventually get a globe RGN2504 or RN4004, thought it would be more aesthetic to have the globe more centered.


----------



## maxpudding

L0rdGwyn said:


> Haha I would say so!  Lots of learning to be done.  I am comfortable with the building aspect, testing and troubleshooting is where I need to focus my time.  I'll also be investing in some much-needed safety equipment (isolation transformer, dim bulb tester).  I'll certainly update here as I go along!
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your kind words.  Hopefully some success will come of it, there certainly will be growing pains, but the most satisfying experiences are not without their challenges.  Looking forward to having some fun with this



LGOTL?  Best of luck and congratulations on your achievement.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've spoken with Glenn, turns out I am going to build my MH4 amp.  I've already sourced many of the parts and the chassis is being built, looks like I will be doing this sooner than I expected!
> 
> I was sort of getting all of this stuff ready to go for whenever Glenn was available to build it, guess I was leading myself down this path and didn't know it.  I've started drafting the schematic, with Glenn as my consultant.
> 
> ...


Hi LG,
Amazing! Good luck on building the LGOTL!


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've spoken with Glenn, turns out I am going to build my MH4 amp.  I've already sourced many of the parts and the chassis is being built, looks like I will be doing this sooner than I expected!
> 
> I was sort of getting all of this stuff ready to go for whenever Glenn was available to build it, guess I was leading myself down this path and didn't know it.  I've started drafting the schematic, with Glenn as my consultant.
> 
> ...


 Ha! I will have you know that today I made coffee. Jealous?
Seriously,im quite impressed. Curious to see if you start getting requests to build amps for others. Good luck with the build.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Dec 11, 2019)

Thanks all 

It will actually be a single-ended triode design, so maybe I will call it the LGSET? LSET?  Haven't given it much thought lol.  The amp will definitely have Glenn's fingerprints on it since much of the design will come from his amps, not to mention he is helping me with the schematic.  Hopefully people don't mind if I post here as sort of a build log, still relevant to the thread I think!  Many of the components for the amplifier circuit have already been chosen, so that part is relatively straightforward and the schematic is probably mostly done already.  What I need to work on is the power supply, will have some variation of a tube-rectified CLC design.  I have to decide what I am going to do with the driver tube filaments, whether it is filtered DC or lifting them off ground, etc.

Going to cost me a pretty penny to get started, here is my shopping list so far not including circuit components:

Drill press - been working with a hand drill so far, but that won't cut it for this build (no pun intended)
Dim bulb tester - I could build this myself, but I'll probably just buy one
Isolation transformer - have been considering one of these to isolate my system from the wall outlet, so I'll be killing two birds with one stone!
Digital oscilloscope - for measuring frequency response, power output, FFT function for eyeballing distortion profile
Signal generator - sine wave and square wave analysis

Optional:
Keithley 2015 DMM and distortion analyzer - I definitely don't need this, especially since Glenn has already done some distortion analysis with the E424 tubes in his preamp.  BUT man, I really do want one.  With a low distortion input signal, it can measure THD down to 0.001%, which is plenty low for a tube amp.  This way, I could see how changing components affects THD and optimize the tube bias.  Could also measure how different tube loadouts affect the distortion.  They are expensive though, around $600 on the used market.  I think long-term it would be a very useful tool to have.  Don't have to decide right now, we will see...

I already have a variac, tube tester, and other building materials.  Also making my way through two books by Morgan Jones, _Valve Amplifiers _(circuit design focused) and _Building Valve Amplifiers_ (practical building and testing focused).


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've spoken with Glenn, turns out I am going to build my MH4 amp.  I've already sourced many of the parts and the chassis is being built, looks like I will be doing this sooner than I expected!
> 
> I was sort of getting all of this stuff ready to go for whenever Glenn was available to build it, guess I was leading myself down this path and didn't know it.  I've started drafting the schematic, with Glenn as my consultant.
> 
> ...




Very cool, I will look forward to your build log...if you start a new thread give me a heads-up.

I think I am going to need six of those Yamamoto sockets for my amp, they are expensive , but  undeniable great quality.

The EL3N Yamamoto sockets are so much better than those Chinese sockets that it really is not even a fair comparison.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks all
> 
> It will actually be a single-ended triode design, so maybe I will call it the LGSET? LSET?  Haven't given it much thought lol.  The amp will definitely have Glenn's fingerprints on it since much of the design will come from his amps, not to mention he is helping me with the schematic.  Hopefully people don't mind if I post here as sort of a build log, still relevant to the thread I think!  Many of the components for the amplifier circuit have already been chosen, so that part is relatively straightforward and the schematic is probably mostly done already.  What I need to work on is the power supply, will have some variation of a tube-rectified CLC design.  I have to decide what I am going to do with the driver tube filaments, whether it is filtered DC or lifting them off ground, etc.
> 
> ...



Have you figured out the grid circuit resistance yet?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Dec 11, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> Have you figured out the grid circuit resistance yet?


 
Just getting to this section in my books, so please correct me.  What I am reading is to use the maximum permissible value.  According to Philips datasheet for EL34 in triode mode, max value is 700K but doesn't state fixed or cathode bias.  But the 6L6G, KT66, and KT77 have a max of 500K for cathode bias, so better to go with the lower value.

How about 470K grid to ground on the power tubes too?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Very cool, I will look forward to your build log...if you start a new thread give me a heads-up.
> 
> I think I am going to need six of those Yamamoto sockets for my amp, they are expensive , but  undeniable great quality.
> 
> The EL3N Yamamoto sockets are so much better than those Chinese sockets that it really is not even a fair comparison.



Will do!  Maybe it is worth starting a new thread when I get to the thick of it...

No doubt Yamamotos are great, have a nice heft to them and the pin tension feels just right.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Dec 11, 2019)

You know what @2359glenn , I am sitting here looking at this very nice Goldpoint selector switch I purchased, and I am beginning to realize all of these power tubes basically use the same cathode bias resistor...

Don't have a triode-connected class A datasheet for EL34, but calculated it manually for a 5K load and got around 500ohm, then found a triode class A schematic with with 470ohm.  Datasheets for the other three tubes have them at 470ohm, 490ohm, and 500ohm.

Starting to think this switch isn't necessary, at least with these tubes.

Edit: tracing the load lines for a -13V bias point with 250V B+, cathode resistor values have changed but the pattern is the same, same value for 6L6G, KT66, and EL34 at 590ohm.  KT77 needs a higher resistor it looks like.  I might just drop the switch altogether.


----------



## mordy

Looks like a good day to enjoy some warm tube glow:


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Hey guys - I made a new thread for my amp build on the DIY section, here's a link, I'll update there from now on.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/l0rdgwyns-single-ended-triode-diy-amp.921105/


----------



## Xcalibur255

Our snow is melting today too.  Thankfully there's more coming.  For a moment I was afraid I was going to have to see the ground.


----------



## Monsterzero

Haha. I went to bed very late two nights ago with no snow at all falling only to wake up seven hours later and everything was covered in white. Its about half melted today.
All of the cables for my shootout are here,and I hope to begin cable rolling tonight.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Haha. I went to bed very late two nights ago with no snow at all falling only to wake up seven hours later and everything was covered in white. Its about half melted today.
> All of the cables for my shootout are here,and I hope to begin cable rolling tonight.




Haha....I just now noticed your location.   Nice.


----------



## Monsterzero

Things that are important to me when I listen to headphones,and what I will be listening for during my cable experiment are:
speed
staging width/height/depth
bass tightness
bass quantity
smoothness
dynamics
air
imaging

If im missing any aspect in the above list that you would like me to cover,chime in now please.


----------



## maxpudding

Apart from the how they sound like, could you maybe categorize them into different range of costs?


----------



## Monsterzero

maxpudding said:


> Apart from the how they sound like, could you maybe categorize them into different range of costs?


 Yes of course I will be disclosing prices and names when all is said and done. 
I will start a new thread for this experiment,and ranking them as far as best overall as well as best bang for the buck options.


----------



## maxpudding

Monsterzero said:


> Yes of course I will be disclosing prices and names when all is said and done.
> I will start a new thread for this experiment,and ranking them as far as best overall as well as best bang for the buck options.



Nice  thank you


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Things that are important to me when I listen to headphones,and what I will be listening for during my cable experiment are:
> speed
> staging width/height/depth
> bass tightness
> ...


Hi Mz,
Perhaps you have covered the following two items in the terms you listed, but I am interested in the mid range and treble as well.
And then a quality that is difficult to describe (at least for me) which I call "soul" - meaning how the equipment communicates the emotional impact of the music.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Hi Mz,
> Perhaps you have covered the following two items in the terms you listed, but I am interested in the mid range and treble as well.
> And then a quality that is difficult to describe (at least for me) which I call "soul" - meaning how the equipment communicates the emotional impact of the music.



This is one of the most important aspects of the audio chain (I think) and one that is impossible to measure, except by a human.  The question is A) are you measuring the ability of the interconnects to add soul that wasn't already there or B) measuring the ability of the interconnects to not destroy the soul that came from the rest of the chain?  Maybe there is also a question C, but I can't think of it yet.


----------



## Monsterzero (Dec 12, 2019)

mordy said:


> Perhaps you have covered the following two items in the terms you listed, but I am interested in the mid range and treble as well.


 Yes,I will be listening for those aspects as well. Ive already discounted a particular cable for adding an edginess to vocals,yet in the name of science,I will be giving that cable its day in court.



mordy said:


> And then a quality that is difficult to describe (at least for me) which I call "soul" - meaning how the equipment communicates the emotional impact of the music.


Are we talking about PRaT here? Foot tapping ability? If so thats hard to measure in any way shape or form,other than my own personal idea of what makes my head bang. I mean if I wanna rock out and get my head and foot going I throw on this. Depending upon how a given cable allows this particular file to flow would be my definition of PRaT,whereas this might be utter garbage to you.

EDIT: and no,this isnt in the bakers dozen songs.




Correct me if im not understanding you.


----------



## DecentLevi

Monsterzero said:


> Things that are important to me when I listen to headphones,and what I will be listening for during my cable experiment are:
> speed
> staging width/height/depth
> bass tightness
> ...


By soul, I think they're perhaps referring to what I call organic-ness or lifelike-ness. Apart from that, impact (dynamics / PRaT) and frequency balance are all greatly the most important to me.


----------



## Monsterzero

Seven hours later I have completed the RCA portion of the shootout. There were a couple very big surprises,and a couple disappointments.
For the sake of my sanity,I will choose a single RCA cable for the USB portion of the shootout,which will consist of five different USB cables.

At some point in the near future I will record the video,start a new thread and share links to the thread here and in a cpl other threads that I haunt.


----------



## carlman14

Random question for you all: Has anyone here had experience ordering tubes from the India-based site https://www.nosaudiotubes.com/ or their ebay store "totempole_999"? A few weeks ago I ordered a couple tubes from them. I received the package, and it turns out they sent the wrong tubes. I've been emailing them, but they're not responding. Their ebay store is highly rated, so they seem legit... but I'm a little worried.


----------



## mordy

From what I read about them they are legit, but I do not have personal experience with them.
If they have not responded to your emails you should contact eBay resolution center and file a claim. You can also call eBay and ask them how to proceed.
No seller wants negative feedback and I am sure that there will be a good resolution to your problem.
Good luck!


----------



## carlman14

mordy said:


> From what I read about them they are legit, but I do not have personal experience with them.
> If they have not responded to your emails you should contact eBay resolution center and file a claim. You can also call eBay and ask them how to proceed.
> No seller wants negative feedback and I am sure that there will be a good resolution to your problem.
> Good luck!



Ok, at least there's hope. Unfortunately I bought directly off their website, so I can't file an ebay claim in this case. I'll just keep hoping they respond...


----------



## leftside

carlman14 said:


> Ok, at least there's hope. Unfortunately I bought directly off their website, so I can't file an ebay claim in this case. I'll just keep hoping they respond...


He's never responded to my emails. Try contacting him through his eBay account.


----------



## mordy

carlman14 said:


> Ok, at least there's hope. Unfortunately I bought directly off their website, so I can't file an ebay claim in this case. I'll just keep hoping they respond...


I was worried about that - did you use a credit card to pay or PayPal?
Here is their return policy - it states that they will pay return shipping of they made a mistake.
*Return Policy*
Audio Tubes > Return Policy
*If, for some reason, you are not satisfied with the product you ordered, you can send it back to us. Of course we would undertake the shipping cost in the case that it is the consequence of a mistake on our side.*
*Is it possible to swap the product?
We will send you another product as soon as we receive the returned package.
We cover the postage cost of the second product in the case that it is due to a mistake on our side. If you change your mind about the product and return it to us, you will be asked to contribute to the product shipping costs.*
*Conditions of the returned product:
Please note that in order to receive a full refund of the product price, or an exchange of equal value, we will ask you to return the product in the same conditions as when we sent it to you.*

*PS: I see that they accept PayPal. Assuming that you used PayPal, you should contact them - I am sure that they will help you.*


----------



## carlman14

mordy said:


> I was worried about that - did you use a credit card to pay or PayPal?
> Here is their return policy - it states that they will pay return shipping of they made a mistake.



Yes, I used paypal. I will definitely contact them to help me out. That's good that they will pay for shipping if the mistake is on their end (which it is), they just have to respond first lol. Thanks for the suggestions. I will get paypal involved if I don't hear back in another day or two.


----------



## chrisdrop

Does anyone run with just inputs in the c3g slots (i.e.; nothing in the 6SN7 slot)? The only reference I have seen doing so I have seen is with just Siemens c3gs, but I guess you could do EL*s with the appropriate adapters?


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Does anyone run with just inputs in the c3g slots (i.e.; nothing in the 6SN7 slot)? The only reference I have seen doing so I have seen is with just Siemens c3gs, but I guess you could do EL*s with the appropriate adapters?


I have tried EL6,EL8, EL11,EL12 and EL32 in the C3g sockets but find that I get a fuller sound with a third driver, especially with EL8/32 that are less impactful than the others on their own, but blossom together with a third driver, especially RCA metal 6J5 and Sylvania 6J5GT/T tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Taking a brief break from my amplifier planning mania...

I received a rare set of tubes in the mail yesterday, these are early black base Fivre 6C5G, very nice sounding tubes.  I paid a pretty penny for them, but couldn't pass on the opportunity!


 

Okay, back to the SET build.  Will be posting some updates soon


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> Taking a brief break from my amplifier planning mania...
> 
> I received a rare set of tubes in the mail yesterday, these are early black base Fivre 6C5G, very nice sounding tubes.  I paid a pretty penny for them, but couldn't pass on the opportunity!
> 
> ...


Very pretty tubes
Can they be used in 6J5 slots ?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> Very pretty tubes
> Can they be used in 6J5 slots ?



Yessir!  They are 6C5G, so near equivalent to 6J5 and can be used interchangeably in the GOTL


----------



## gibosi

chrisdrop said:


> Does anyone run with just inputs in the c3g slots (i.e.; nothing in the 6SN7 slot)? The only reference I have seen doing so I have seen is with just Siemens c3gs, but I guess you could do EL*s with the appropriate adapters?



You will note that there are two common practices. One is to run "triplets" as Mordy suggests. And the other is to run C3g and similar pentodes without an accompanying triplet.

To my ears, the "fullness" added by a triplet seems a bit unnatural so I do not use them.

Considering pairs of pentodes without triplets, in my opinion, the ELN3 and EL11 are among the best drivers I have. On the other hand, the EL8 isn't all that great. But then, I am not a big fan of Valvo's Hamburg factory sound and I have not found an EL8 manufactured elsewhere. I am also a big fan of the 6M5 manufactured in Australia, the EL41 manufactured by Mullard and Sittard, and the EL42 manufactured by Mullard.

But of course, my ears... my gear... YMMV. 

And a little "eye candy"

Loewe Radio AZ12, Tung-Sol 6BX7 and Australian-made 6M5.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Okay, back to the SET build. Will be posting some updates soon


K, I love your enthusiasm and following your SET project. Good stuff buddy 

I am anxiously and impatiently waiting for my 6EL3N amp, being built by the master himself... Using much more attainable tubes than your project, so no need for unicorn tubes to drive my amp!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> K, I love your enthusiasm and following your SET project. Good stuff buddy
> 
> I am anxiously and impatiently waiting for my 6EL3N amp, being built by the master himself... Using much more attainable tubes than your project, so no need for unicorn tubes to drive my amp!



It will be worth the wait!  I have seen a photo of the chassis, looks fantastic  glad to hear you are following.  I am writing the explanation of the amplifier circuit right now, will have it posted in probably a half hour.  It will be a little technically dense, but hopefully interesting for some people.


----------



## Monsterzero

chrisdrop said:


> Does anyone run with just inputs in the c3g slots (i.e.; nothing in the 6SN7 slot)? The only reference I have seen doing so I have seen is with just Siemens c3gs, but I guess you could do EL*s with the appropriate adapters?


 It seems that the Glenn owners whose amps have built-in HEXFREDs have more success with triple drivers than those with tube rectifiers,or even plug-in HEXFREDs. I agree with Gibosi about the sound being un-natural. Its kinda fun to hear it once,but its not a way I'd want to listen to headphones on a regular basis.


----------



## mordy

Interesting observations - I agree that the EL8 isn't anything special on its own, but for me it pairs very well with an additional driver. It could also be, as Monsterzero points out, that the triple drivers sound better in Hexfred GOTL variants.
In other words, it may not be a fair comparison with the same tubes in a GOTL with a rectifier and one with a built in Hexfred.
PS: Forgot to add EL3N to the list.


----------



## chrisdrop

Continuing my 6J5 journey and coming back this week to the ye-olde GECs we mentioned here a few weeks ago. Here they are today:

 

I had really been enjoying the Sylvanias (posted 2 weeks or so ago). They sounded great, from 0 hours. I tried the solid black all-metal RCAs @mordy had mentioned too for a week or so (still probably not at critical tube break-in time?). I will have to cycle back to them. While the RCAs were pretty solid, I prefer the Sylvanias. I even _wanted_ to go back to them from the GECs... but...

The GECs still have ~20 hours on them. They have the best stage and separation of the lot, but perhaps had sounded a bit nasal. In just the course of use today, I heard them "relax" and the nasal sound seems to be dissipating. I turned the amp off for a few hours while out in the afternoon to see if it was just the amp being in a good warmed-up state, but the tubes do really seem to have changed when going again this evening. It is one of the more substantial tube changes I had heard.  For me it was a new and pleasant experience.


----------



## mordy

To me it is a fact that tubes change during burn-in. Sometimes subtly, sometimes radically, sometimes after a few hours and reaching full burn-in after 20-30 hours; sometimes considerably more - well over 100 hours at times.
Another mysterious aspect of our hobby...
I am also chartering the 6C5/6J5 waters, getting a kick out of trying dozens of tubes for just a few dollars each. The GEC L63 ST type is too expensive for me. I have been enjoying the Sylvania 6J5GT/T for a couple of weeks - great sounding tubes.
Today I tried a pair of these:




Tung Sol 6C5GT - a predecessor to the 6J5 . The screen is not a mesh but stamped metal and the purpose is to be a RF shield (Faraday cage). 
There was some hum using these, but by connecting pins 1&8 with a tiny piece of stranded wire the hum disappeared, and these tubes are very silent now.
First impression: In comparison to the Sylvania 6J5GT which are airy and open and have a wide sound stage, these are a little laid back and have a less wide sound stage and more emphasis on the lower mid range and mid bass; more nasal but still very enjoyable - have to let them run longer to finalize my impressions.
So far I have not found a bad sounding 6C5/6J5 tube. It is remarkable that these bargain tubes are such (overlooked) performers. Perhaps one reason is that most tube amps would need four of them with two adapters whereas we lucky GOTL owners only need two triodes and one adapter.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> It will be worth the wait!  I have seen a photo of the chassis, looks fantastic  glad to hear you are following.  I am writing the explanation of the amplifier circuit right now, will have it posted in probably a half hour.  It will be a little technically dense, but hopefully interesting for some people.



You must be a math head to be able to do this.  I find it fun but I am a nerd and find it rewarding when a amp comes out sounding great.
Also you will feel great when finished and working sounding great and you built it.


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> To me it is a fact that tubes change during burn-in. Sometimes subtly, sometimes radically, sometimes after a few hours and reaching full burn-in after 20-30 hours; sometimes considerably more - well over 100 hours at times.
> Another mysterious aspect of our hobby...
> I am also chartering the 6C5/6J5 waters, getting a kick out of trying dozens of tubes for just a few dollars each. The GEC L63 ST type is too expensive for me. I have been enjoying the Sylvania 6J5GT/T for a couple of weeks - great sounding tubes.
> Today I tried a pair of these:
> ...



Yet-another tube-healing device from doctor @mordy's medical bag. What makes this approach "_connecting pins 1&8 with a tiny piece of stranded wire" _the right thing to do to help (or by contrast, where should this device not be applied)? This article http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2013/03/tube-of-month-6j5.html says "_pin 1 is either connected to the metal shell or unused_" and the pinouts here https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/049/6/6J5.pdf (pick any 6J5) show 8 as the cathode (and 1 to shell). Was the 1 pin unused in the above tube or was it to the shell/ base? What made you aim to connect it to the cathode? Sorry if these are dumb questions - just trying to understand. 

Thanks again for sharing your tools for tube healing 

I broke the top-cap off of an EL32 this weekend. Whilst ordering new (very inexpensive) ones to experiment with, I just had to order a few more pairs of inexpensive 6J5s, thanks to @L0rdGwyn -some 6C5s and a  pair 12J5 too. They really have been fun and not expensive (except for the 1 GEC pair aforementioned). All of these were single-digit price per tube! Since I have 2 weeks at home starting Friday, I intend to have a LOT of listening time!


----------



## UsoppNoKami

GOTL tube roll for the week:

 

WE422A + GEC 6J5G ST drivers + Bendix 6080 slotted plates and GEC 6AS7G 

Power tube combo appears to have enough current to run my HE1000SE planars, good listening times ahead


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> I tried the solid black all-metal RCAs @mordy had mentioned too for a week or so (still probably not at critical tube break-in time?). I will have to cycle back to them. While the RCAs were pretty solid, I prefer the Sylvanias.



These are the RCAs you posted a photo of last week?  On your recent purchase of additional 6J5s did you buy any more RCAs, possibly older versions (e.g. with the meatball logo)?  I'm curious whether the sound of these metal RCAs is different depending on when the tube was made.  There is a discussion on the 6SN7 thread about the RCA 6SN7 VT-231 grey glass tubes being different depending on manufacture date (older being better).  Obviously this doesn't have to be true for other RCA tubes, but it's something I've been wondering.  I need to get some later manufacture date RCA metal 6J5s to test this question.


----------



## GDuss

UsoppNoKami said:


> GOTL tube roll for the week:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd say this is not just a GOTL tube roll, but a *TOTL* tube roll .


----------



## UsoppNoKami

GDuss said:


> I'd say this is not just a GOTL tube roll, but a *TOTL* tube roll .



Haha, only in cost. Good sound on GOTL comes in so many flavours, we all know TOTL tone and sound quality can be had with modest 6BX7/6BL7s


----------



## leftside

GDuss said:


> These are the RCAs you posted a photo of last week?  On your recent purchase of additional 6J5s did you buy any more RCAs, possibly older versions (e.g. with the meatball logo)?  I'm curious whether the sound of these metal RCAs is different depending on when the tube was made.  There is a discussion on the 6SN7 thread about the RCA 6SN7 VT-231 grey glass tubes being different depending on manufacture date (older being better).  Obviously this doesn't have to be true for other RCA tubes, but it's something I've been wondering.  I need to get some later manufacture date RCA metal 6J5s to test this question.


My experience with RCA tubes is older the better. I have 12ax7, 5751, 6SN7, red base, 6J5, 6C5, and a few others. But, I guess "older the better" is true of most tube manufacturers  (as long as the tube is still performing of course).


----------



## chrisdrop

GDuss said:


> These are the RCAs you posted a photo of last week?  On your recent purchase of additional 6J5s did you buy any more RCAs, possibly older versions (e.g. with the meatball logo)?  I'm curious whether the sound of these metal RCAs is different depending on when the tube was made.  There is a discussion on the 6SN7 thread about the RCA 6SN7 VT-231 grey glass tubes being different depending on manufacture date (older being better).  Obviously this doesn't have to be true for other RCA tubes, but it's something I've been wondering.  I need to get some later manufacture date RCA metal 6J5s to test this question.



Hey @GDuss - yes they are. Below are a few more up-close shots. I was hoping the #s might be meaningful, but all the #s are standard on these tubes. This page has this tube, with the same #s on it https://valvetubes.com/products/manufacture/rca/6j5-cv1932-rca-usa.html. Every marking is identical as far as I can tell. This doc https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/049/6/6J5.pdf has some dates on it (1943, 1950), but nothing clearly dates these valves.... except...

The meatball logo is older. These valves use a logo from 1968 https://1000logos.net/rca-logo/

I do like these RCAs, which are very inexpensive. They may need more hours of use to get to their sweet-spot. I will seek out older RCAs. Langrex has some glass ones.

On the next batch of valves the relevant tubes I have en route just: 12J5GT KENRAD VT135, 6C5GT USA of some make (they had Fivre's but gone). 

FWIW - while browsing, I came across some more expensive 6J5s, for example here: https://valvetubes.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=6j5 and here https://www.langrex.co.uk/?s=6j5&post_type=product

Fun adventures.


----------



## GDuss

leftside said:


> My experience with RCA tubes is older the better. I have 12ax7, 5751, 6SN7, red base, 6J5, 6C5, and a few others. But, I guess "older the better" is true of most tube manufacturers  (as long as the tube is still performing of course).



I haven't tried enough later production RCAs to be able to say for myself that older is better, but this is the rationale I've been using for purchasing earlier production RCA 6J5/6C5/12J5.  I know the "older the better" phrase has also been used for Ken Rad tubes, especially given that they didn't remain an independent company past 1945.  I'm sure there are plenty of other examples of manufacturing changes, company acquisitions etc that play a role in shifts in the design/quality of tubes over time.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Hey @GDuss - yes they are. Below are a few more up-close shots. I was hoping the #s might be meaningful, but all the #s are standard on these tubes. This page has this tube, with the same #s on it https://valvetubes.com/products/manufacture/rca/6j5-cv1932-rca-usa.html. Every marking is identical as far as I can tell. This doc https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/049/6/6J5.pdf has some dates on it (1943, 1950), but nothing clearly dates these valves.... except...
> 
> The meatball logo is older. These valves use a logo from 1968 https://1000logos.net/rca-logo/
> 
> ...



Interesting link on the dating of RCA logos.  The RCA metal tubes I have look like the one on the right in this link (with the meatball logo)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Pai...2100gm-Metal-Serious-Tubes-K284/174105022026?

But the one on the left uses a logo that is not listed on the webpage you linked.  I'm guessing that logo is later than the meatball but earlier than the 1968 logo.

As you point out, the great thing about these tubes is that they can often be found for single-digit prices.  I've had a few instances of paying more for shipping than for a pair of tubes.  The thing that stands in the way of me buying more of them is having enough time to actually listen to them.  I suppose there are worse problems to have.


----------



## mordy

Hi Chrisdrop,
You say that nothing dates these tubes...well, you may be able to date them by looking at the metal base where it is stamped 6J5. Next to it there should be another letter and number stamped into the base, The sequence of these two symbols matters.
Once we know these designations the dates can be decoded.

Re the jumper between pin 1 and 8 to eliminate hum in some 6C5 family tubes I think I got the tip from Glenn. It is easy to know which pins to connect - the two on each side of the notch for the guide pin. In my experience not all tubes of this kind need it, but it does not do any harm if not needed. How it works I don't know, but it works very well for the 6C5 tubes I have that hummed.

Re the anode cap coming off one of the EL32 tubes - this is a common thing with old tubes, especially European ones in my experience. The glue deteriorates over time, and I routinely crazyglue the anode caps and bases on these old tubes. I found a little bottle of crazy glue with a built in small brush in the cap that easily reaches into the space between the base and the glass and also brushes on small amounts of glue easily on the area where the anode cap meets the glass. I only have good experiences with this, and nothing came apart again. Sometimes you can get a better buy on a tube if an honest seller lists the tube as having a lose base - can be fixed in a few seconds. But best to let it dry for 24 hours before using.
This is what I use:










IMHO a must for tube rollers and very inexpensive - less than $3.

Finally, about comparing EL8 to EL32 as additional drivers, I did compare them today. While the EL8 tubes are quite nice (in triple driver configuration), the EL32 sound better with more drive (pun intended). Next is a comparison between the EL32 and the TFK tubular EL11....


----------



## mordy

Forgot to mention that DL had a repair done to an anode cap that came off an expensive tube. If there is a little piece of wire left above the glass it is doable. However, given the low price of the EL32 it may not be worth the trouble unless you can do it yourself.


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 17, 2019)

Rolled in the GEC KT66 last night , listened to Gary Clark Jr's  live acoustic version of  "When My Train Pulls In"
Hearing Gary's fingers pluck those guitar strings is quite epic!


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Rolled in the GEC KT66 last night , listened to Gary Clark Jr's  live acoustic version of  "When My Train Pulls In"
> Hearing Gary's fingers pluck those guitar strings is quite epic!


Very nice! Amp also looks great with those tubes.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Rolled in the GEC KT66 last night , listened to Gary Clark Jr's  live acoustic version of  "When My Train Pulls In"
> Hearing Gary's fingers pluck those guitar strings is quite epic!


Joe - you're making the wait for my amp even harder.......


----------



## mordy

There is a young women composer Alma Deutscher, that is an expert violin and piano player in addition to being a composer. Here is an unusual composition of hers that was recorded a couple of days ago by a full harmonic orchestra at Carnegie Hall. It starts with the chaotic sounds of the inner city with cars, trucks and police cars and gradually evolves into a beautiful waltz. Her music has an otherworldly beauty with hauntingly wonderful melodies.
On this recording she does not play, but at the end of the performance she comes on stage and thanks the audience - all of 14 years old.......
Amazing and astounding genius.
Good quality recording.


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 18, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Joe - you're making the wait for my amp even harder.......



Ha...sorry about that. Is your amp being built now ?

The detail of the GEC KT66 is superb....the classic GEC sound , if you like that. Then refine that  

I may also miss the EL3N tubes in my upcoming amp....these are such good sounding tubes and *never, ever too harsh.*


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Ha...sorry about that. Is your amp being built now ?


Yup 



whirlwind said:


> The detail of the GEC KT66 is superb....the classic GEC sound , if you like that. Then refine that


Already got 2 pairs in anticipation of my amp! Along with KT77 and some other compatible types...


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Yup
> 
> 
> Already got 2 pairs in anticipation of my amp! Along with KT77 and some other compatible types...




Oh man, congrats on all of those.

So what you are saying is that you have spent $1500 or so on tubes  

I forgot that you will be powering speakers also and will be using four power tubes!

Did you get any EL34 tubes ?


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> So what you are saying is that you have spent $1500 or so on tubes


I plead the fifth on this one...... 



whirlwind said:


> I forgot that you will be powering speakers also and will be using four power tubes!


Due to transformer limitations, when using EL34 and equivalents (KT66 / KT77 / etc.) - only 2 can be used (not 4)... Only EL3N can be used as a quad for power tubes.



whirlwind said:


> Did you get any EL34 tubes ?


Yup.


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> I plead the fifth on this one......
> 
> 
> Due to transformer limitations, when using EL34 and equivalents (KT66 / KT77 / etc.) - only 2 can be used (not 4)... Only EL3N can be used as a quad for power tubes.
> ...


 Hey Zachi,have you received your new Lampi DAC yet?


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Hey Zachi,have you received your new Lampi DAC yet?


Yes, but won't have time to play with it until Friday afternoon... sigh...
At least I have connected it to my music server and GOTL and tested that it is actually working!


----------



## chrisdrop

In case anyone is keen, I have just seen that someone has a quantity of NOS 6BX7s available. I haven't seen many of these available as NOS lately. They are not particularly cheap, but also not bank-breakers.

Best
Chris


----------



## gibosi

chrisdrop said:


> In case anyone is keen, I have just seen that someone has a quantity of NOS 6BX7s available. I haven't seen many of these available as NOS lately. They are not particularly cheap, but also not bank-breakers.
> 
> Best
> Chris



And the EIA code, 312, tells you that these were manufactured by Sylvania.


----------



## Monsterzero

The thread for my cable shootout is up.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monsterzeros-rca-usb-power-cable-shootout.921568/#post-15371552


----------



## chrisdrop

Today I am enjoying a pair of Siemens C3Gs for the first time (just arrived) with a pair of Bendix 6080WBs. Only 1h in and the C3Gs are already pretty sweet. The combo is spacious clarity. 

These tubes yet-again have me hearing things I hadn't heard before in songs I know well. @2359glenn you really have made exploring music even more fun with such a versatile amp - endless rolling possibilities !


 

In anticipation of 2+ weeks of home-time listening, I also grabbed a few more odds & ends which arrived today:

Inspired by @L0rdGwyn - I ordered some inexpensive 6C5s. I asked for  straight glass and these are what he sent. Not sure of the Hytron brand, but the boxes are cool. 

 

They are pretty intricate looking on the inside. We shall see what they sound like.

 

I have really been enjoying the Sylvania 6J5s, so I thought I'd get some in 12v. The inner assembly does look different between the 6J5s. The 2 12J5s look identical but the boxes slightly vary. I am not sure if that "acceptance date: 12-43" on the box means these are from then? 

  

Fun times ahead.

_This post brought to you by: _



and


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Today I am enjoying a pair of Siemens C3Gs for the first time (just arrived) with a pair of Bendix 6080WBs. Only 1h in and the C3Gs are already pretty sweet. The combo is spacious clarity.
> 
> These tubes yet-again have me hearing things I hadn't heard before in songs I know well. @2359glenn you really have made exploring music even more fun with such a versatile amp - endless rolling possibilities !
> 
> ...




I'm guessing you are going to like those Sylvania 12J5GTs.  I have a pair of non VT-135 version of the same tube (recommended by @mordy ) and they are very nice.  They are some of my favorite non-metal tubes of the 6J5/12J5 type.


----------



## whirlwind

chrisdrop said:


> Today I am enjoying a pair of Siemens C3Gs for the first time (just arrived) with a pair of Bendix 6080WBs. Only 1h in and the C3Gs are already pretty sweet. The combo is spacious clarity.
> 
> These tubes yet-again have me hearing things I hadn't heard before in songs I know well. @2359glenn you really have made exploring music even more fun with such a versatile amp - endless rolling possibilities !
> 
> ...





Nice tubes.

Those C3g tubes are about as transparent as any driver tube I have heard.

I am guessing that those 6M5 pentodes that @gibosi is using sound pretty darn good too.

Looks like you are having much fun rolling


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> Today I am enjoying a pair of Siemens C3Gs for the first time (just arrived) with a pair of Bendix 6080WBs. Only 1h in and the C3Gs are already pretty sweet. The combo is spacious clarity.
> 
> These tubes yet-again have me hearing things I hadn't heard before in songs I know well. @2359glenn you really have made exploring music even more fun with such a versatile amp - endless rolling possibilities !
> 
> ...




Glad you are enjoying your amp.
I have 2 weeks off work too now I can finally give a good listen to my rebuilt preamp using E424 tubes and a 6BL7 for the output cathode follower.
So far these Philips E424s sound great.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I am guessing that those 6M5 pentodes that @gibosi is using sound pretty darn good too.



The 6M5 was designed to be a miniature, less powerful EL3 / EL11 putting out 3.9 instead of 4.5 watts. It was manufactured only at the Philips' Hendon Works, in Alberton, Australia. These are Innoval tubes with what is often called a "coin base" and the factory assembly-line equipment was fabricated and shipped to Australia from Eindhoven, Holland. And thus, to my ears, these sound like Holland-made EL3N. Very nice tubes and cheap. However, an adapter is needed and while not expensive, they are not common.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UsoppNoKami said:


> GOTL tube roll for the week:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Pretty lightbulbs..


----------



## Sound Trooper (Dec 21, 2019)

No glowing tubes.. I hope some headphones will do..



 

Happy holidays guys!


----------



## chrisdrop

Sound Trooper said:


> No glowing tubes.. I hope some headphones will do..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now we know what to get you for Christmas @Sound Trooper. You need extra ears to enjoy all that simultaneously !


----------



## chrisdrop (Dec 21, 2019)

Has anyone had success pairing c3gs + other inputs? After a scan of the forum history, most posts using the c3g slots seem to have used 1) just the c3gs with no other input or 2) EL* valves in the c3g slots + other inputs in the 6SN7 slot. @mordy - I believe your recipe is 4x 6080 + 2x EL32 + rotating things in the final input socket, of late seemingly 6(JC)5s and the like. I am sure some of you must have given rotating the c3gs + other inputs a go and I am assuming got no better recipes? Given the relative newness on the thread of the 6J5s, I thought I'd focus there..

After a very little bit of rotating things into the 6SN7 socket, I can't find anything that is > either the c3gs alone or 6J5s _alone_. I will keep at the c3gs for a few days to 1) enjoy them,  2) let them break in 3) experiment with the occasional addition in the 6SN7 socket.

I hope @GDuss won't mind my saying, but both of us have recently put back some single tubes in the 6SN7 slot (after a month+ of only really 6J5s for me). It is hard to go back to any single tube in that socket vs these *J5s. I guess that is why @L0rdGwyn opted to sell all the 6SN7s...


----------



## 2359glenn

Sound Trooper said:


> No glowing tubes.. I hope some headphones will do..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow that is quite a collection of headphones you have!!!!!!

Happy holidays


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Has anyone had success pairing c3gs + other inputs? After a scan of the forum history, most posts using the c3g slots seem to have used 1) just the c3gs with no other input or 2) EL* valves in the c3g slots + other inputs in the 6SN7 slot. @mordy - I believe your recipe is 4x 6080 + 2x EL32 + rotating things in the final input socket, of late seemingly 6(JC)5s and the like. I am sure some of you must have given rotating the c3gs + other inputs a go and I am assuming got no better recipes? Given the relative newness on the thread of the 6J5s, I thought I'd focus there..
> 
> After a very little bit of rotating things into the 6SN7 socket, I can't find anything that is > either the c3gs alone or 6J5s _alone_. I will keep at the c3gs for a few days to 1) enjoy them,  2) let them break in 3) experiment with the occasional addition in the 6SN7 socket.
> 
> I hope @GDuss won't mind my saying, but both of us have recently put back some single tubes in the 6SN7 slot (after a month+ of only really 6J5s for me). It is hard to go back to any single tube in that socket vs these *J5s. I guess that is why @L0rdGwyn opted to sell all the 6SN7s...



As you mention, I'm really only using the dual 6J5/6C5/12J5 tubes as drivers at this point.  Each time that I've gone back to a single SN7/SL7 tube recently, the theme has been, "where did the stage go?".  And that's with some quite good SN7/SL7 tubes.  I also haven't felt that I'm missing anything regarding tonality etc by using the dual J5/C5s.  Many of them, especially the RCAs, are exceptionally pleasing to listen to.


----------



## leftside

Glad to hear so many are enjoying the 6J5/6C5/12J5 tubes. My early experiments with the WA22 and Dejan adapters was the primary reason I went for dedicated sockets for the 6J5 in my 1101 V6 amp. I'll going to be selling the WA22 in the new year.

6P5 are also worth a try.


----------



## Zachik

Sound Trooper said:


> No glowing tubes.. I hope some headphones will do..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@Sound Trooper - nice collection! I see many of which are planars. How does the EL3N amp deal with them? I know that for the GOTL - with the 6336A tubes you can drive planars.


----------



## Monsterzero (Dec 21, 2019)

About two-three months ago I bought a pair of Sylvania VT-135s.(12J5s) Theyve been sitting around my place ever since,as I am just too addicted to the Ken Rad slam. Finally last night I decided to roll them in,mostly in an attempt to help me decide which RCA cables to buy(long story).
Anyways they sound really good. Separation is off the charts,and they have better sub-bass than the Ken Rads,and perhaps slam a bit harder as well(maybe).

However,after allowing them to warm up for well over an hour,when I plugged in my VC,there was a very loud audible pop coming from the headphone. Same story for when I unplugged the VC. In both cases the volume was turned completely down. When I tried the same process with 600 ohm DT990,I didnt hear any pop. In both cases the headphones were not on my head at the time of plugging/unplugging. I also never experienced this issue with the Ken Rads. Anybody have an idea whats going on here? I certainly do not want to blow a driver on the VC.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Glad the 6J5s have taken off, great tubes.  Can't remember what got me curious about them, but I reached out to @leftside to get his thoughts, grabbed a few pairs and the rest is history


----------



## GDuss

leftside said:


> 6P5 are also worth a try.



You're killing me here.  Just when I thought I was getting the 6/12J5 and 6C5 comparisons under control...


----------



## leftside

GDuss said:


> You're killing me here.  Just when I thought I was getting the 6/12J5 and 6C5 comparisons under control...


You purchased an amp with many tube rolling possibilities, so what do you expect? Hehe. No rush  Same adapter can be used.


----------



## GDuss

leftside said:


> You purchased an amp with many tube rolling possibilities, so what do you expect? Hehe. No rush  Same adapter can be used.



You're right, I did it to myself.  But at least all these drivers are inexpensive (ok most of them).  If this is my biggest problem right now, I'm doing ok.


----------



## mordy

I hope @GDuss won't mind my saying, but both of us have recently put back some single tubes in the 6SN7 slot (after a month+ of only really 6J5s for me). It is hard to go back to any single tube in that socket vs these *J5s. I guess that is why @L0rdGwyn opted to sell all the 6SN7s...[/QUOTE]

Same experience here - a pair of single triodes (6/12C/J5) sound better than their dual triode equivalents.
Especially the humble metal 6J5 triodes impress. 
Re the Hytrons - this was a small high quality Massachusetts manufacturer that later was bought by CBS. That round shield in the tube is an RF shield and not part of the plate structure. I assume that the all metal 6C5 tubes also have those shields but nothing is visible. As an aside, the only glass in the metal tubes is a disc that holds the pins. 
t appears to me that the metal tubes take longer to warm up than the glass ones - you need around 1/2 hour for them to come to full potential.


----------



## mordy

Forgot to add that once I plugged in a pair of 1944 Tung Sol 6J5 tubes the GOTL seemed to sound better with these alone without the EL32 drivers - still trying to figure this out.....
In sum: I am now using a pair of 6J5 and 4x6080. Tried just one pair of the 6080, but the sound thinned out - 4x6080 sounds better to me with the pair of 6J5.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Zachik said:


> @Sound Trooper - nice collection! I see many of which are planars. How does the EL3N amp deal with them? I know that for the GOTL - with the 6336A tubes you can drive planars.



Hey there, I currently have 3 planar (Abyss Phi, Audeze LCD-3F & DCA A2C), these all sound fantastic with the GEL3N. I actually sold my Schiit Rag a few months ago as the GEL3N is the only amp I regularly use.


----------



## Zachik

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey there, I currently have 3 planar (Abyss Phi, Audeze LCD-3F & DCA A2C), these all sound fantastic with the GEL3N. I actually sold my Schiit Rag a few months ago as the GEL3N is the only amp I regularly use.


Thanks!
Cannot wait for my GEL3N (actually 6EL3N)


----------



## chrisdrop

After ~2.5 days of c3g listening, I decided to give the new 12J5/ VT-135s a go. They internally look a bit different than the Sylvania 6J5s I have been listening to. The 12s have a black base whereas the 6s had a metal base. They sound pretty excellent straight out of the box. 

Also - thanks again @Deyan for the great adapter. It is making this entire *J5 journey possible. 

FWIW - no luck finding anything in the 6SN7 slot that added anything to the c3gs. I think the c3gs are pretty impressive ... but these other new inputs are not going to listen to themselves!


 

Pix during: Fink - Perfect Darkness
(Guitars and vocals sounding lovely)


Writing during: James Blake - Mile High


----------



## 2359glenn

The C3g is one of the best driver tubes not many can beat the transparency of the C3g.


----------



## 2359glenn

Happy Hanukkah to all my friends


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Happy Hanukkah to all my friends


Happy Chanukah!


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> The C3g is one of the best driver tubes not many can beat the transparency of the C3g.


Agreed. Find the same in both my 300B amp and 1101 V6 amp.


----------



## chrisdrop (Dec 22, 2019)

Some interesting c3g history here: https://jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/Portraits/C3g/C3g-C3m-info.html

Surprising:

They were made _"exclusively for the German post"_
_"..they are EXPENSIVE. The price of C3g was 295DM for one tube. So that's about 200$ for one tube. In those days you could buy a new car for 5000$."_
Apparently there is a "C3g-S _is a hidden treasure. They are EXTREMELY rare."_
As a bonus, this site also has a picture of the Lundahl factory https://jacmusic.com/Navigation/lundahl.html

+ why Lundhal transformers are good https://jacmusic.com/lundahl/applications/mains-transformers1.html


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Some interesting c3g history here: https://jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/Portraits/C3g/C3g-C3m-info.html
> 
> Surprising:
> 
> ...



I have some 5 pairs of the C3g, including the S version. The S is supposed to measure in the top 10% of the C3g tubes. IMHO you cannot hear a difference and it is not worth spending the extra money. In addition, the S is written by hand, both on the tube and the box, whatever that means.
The C3g was used for trans-atlantic cables for communications. The glass is tempered glass (under the aluminum shroud) and extremely fragile. If you remove these tubes with a rocking motion (tube rolling) as with other tubes, you risk breaking the glass. The way to do it is to wedge a small flat screwdriver blade under the tube base, and gently work yourself around the tube to lift it up. Insert the tube only by pushing straight down without any sideways movements.
The shroud has a function (RF shield). Removing it makes the tube much more pretty, but some people claim that it effects the sound adversely.
Here is a picture of a C3g without the shroud, run at 425V plate voltage - spectacular tube glow in blue (Beryllium):



This is my favorite tube picture.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

chrisdrop said:


> FWIW - no luck finding anything in the 6SN7 slot that added anything to the c3gs. I think the c3gs are pretty impressive ... but these other new inputs are not going to listen to themselves!



I tried many SN7 tubes with C3g in a driver triplet config.. in the end, there was only 1 tube that stood out for my tastes - a black glass Brimar 6SN7, it made the C3g treble less hot by adding some warmth and smoothness.  



UsoppNoKami said:


> I just found my fav combo for my Verite. Haven't tried EL type tubes nor do I have adaptors or any EL tubes, so with the C3g and other tubes that I own -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Happy Hanukkah to all my friends





mordy said:


> Happy Chanukah!



Pleasantly surprised to see more people celebrating Hanukkah!


----------



## mordy (Dec 22, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Pleasantly surprised to see more people celebrating Hanukkah!


Getting ready:



Another option: A vacuum tube menorah....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I am back home from a weekend of visiting family, which means back to working on my amp design.  I know I have been silent about it, but the GOTL has been my companion throughout.  Been listening to this combination mostly, early Fivre 6C5G and the GEC 6AS7G.  Amps, amps, amps 

Happy Hanukkah and Happy Holidays to all, in whatever way you celebrate!


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Getting ready:
> 
> Another option: A vacuum tube menorah....



Vacuum tube Menorah you are crazy Mordy.
Looks great though.
What do you have LEDs in them?


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Vacuum tube Menorah you are crazy Mordy.
> Looks great though.
> What do you have LEDs in them?


I just found the picture on Google - thought that somebody must have had the idea. I light a traditional Menorah with oil and floating wick.


----------



## leftside

Earlier this year I purchased an Osram KT66 from a guy in Canada. I had reservations about purchasing just a single tube, as I had doubts I'd ever be able to find a matching one. Well, low and behold Martin Billington had a matching tube! The date codes are also very similar: March 1952 and June 1952. 

I also purchased a bunch of metal base 6J5GT. I'll share my thoughts on those once I've cleaned the pins and given them a try in the new amp. Very reasonable priced: $10 - $20 each.

And that's it - these are the last tubes I'm buying. Famous last words?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> Earlier this year I purchased an Osram KT66 from a guy in Canada. I had reservations about purchasing just a single tube, as I had doubts I'd ever be able to find a matching one. Well, low and behold Martin Billington had a matching tube! The date codes are also very similar: March 1952 and June 1952.
> 
> I also purchased a bunch of metal base 6J5GT. I'll share my thoughts on those once I've cleaned the pins and given them a try in the new amp. Very reasonable priced: $10 - $20 each.
> 
> And that's it - these are the last tubes I'm buying. Famous last words?



Never say never.  I had a very pretty black base Marconi 6AS7G, quite rare I was certain I would never find its match.  I sold it and used the funds to buy @Velozity 's pair of GEC 6AS7G.  The identical Marconi tube showed up on eBay one week later 

That is a beautiful pair of tubes, congrats!


----------



## OctavianH

These KT66 are incredible beauties. I love them. I've said that I will stop buying tubes when I received these:







Today I was again bidding on ebay...


----------



## leftside

OctavianH said:


> These KT66 are incredible beauties. I love them. I've said that I will stop buying tubes when I received these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Were you the high bidder on the pair Alibossa had for sale? He's a great seller. I always check out his auctions. He also had a nice mesh plate EL35 and matched pair of Marconi Osram VR76/L63 1940's that went for just over $100 today. Seen those sell for $100 each before.


----------



## OctavianH

Yes I bid 255£ then I retired it, I already have this pair of MOV KT66 and another GEC KT66 clear glass. I decided to retire. Were you bidding? One of the tubes had the Osram logo "burned" and the tubes were used not NOS.


----------



## leftside

OctavianH said:


> Yes I bid 255£ then I retired it, I already have this pair of MOV KT66 and another GEC KT66 clear glass. I decided to retire. Were you bidding? One of the tubes had the Osram logo "burned" and the tubes were used not NOS.


I wasn't bidding. I definitely have enough pairs of KT66 now.


----------



## chrisdrop

leftside said:


> Earlier this year I purchased an Osram KT66 from a guy in Canada. I had reservations about purchasing just a single tube, as I had doubts I'd ever be able to find a matching one. Well, low and behold Martin Billington had a matching tube! The date codes are also very similar: March 1952 and June 1952.
> 
> I also purchased a bunch of metal base 6J5GT. I'll share my thoughts on those once I've cleaned the pins and given them a try in the new amp. Very reasonable priced: $10 - $20 each.
> 
> And that's it - these are the last tubes I'm buying. Famous last words?



Given the open opportunity, allow me to comment on Martin: He makes it very hard to look beyond Billington for tubes _for me _(in the UK). They are my 1st look for anything and they very often have it. They are also most often at the market price, never "gouging". Not only does he have literally > 1 million tubes, the people at Billington are always very helpful and pleasant. The quality is always solid. He has been known to throw in spare tubes with small notes like "_small crack in base, tests perfectly, added free of charge_".  Given that they are around an hour from my place, I may go visit in the new year. 11k sq ft of tubes seems like a worth-while few hours


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> I may go visit in the new year. 11k sq ft of tubes seems like a worth-while few hours


Good luck explaining to the wife how your "window shopping" made a big dent on the credit card statement...


----------



## leftside

chrisdrop said:


> Given the open opportunity, allow me to comment on Martin: He makes it very hard to look beyond Billington for tubes _for me _(in the UK). They are my 1st look for anything and they very often have it. They are also most often at the market price, never "gouging". Not only does he have literally > 1 million tubes, the people at Billington are always very helpful and pleasant. The quality is always solid. He has been known to throw in spare tubes with small notes like "_small crack in base, tests perfectly, added free of charge_".  Given that they are around an hour from my place, I may go visit in the new year. 11k sq ft of tubes seems like a worth-while few hours


If you go in and see Martin and the crew, please say hi from me. I've got to know Martin quite well over the years as we'll often have a quick chat when I call in with my credit card details. We both follow cricket, and it was a very special year for England with the World Cup win (sorry to my Kiwi friends). The last couple of years, 90% of my tube purchases have been from Martin - everything from the small 12ax7's to the big KT66 and TT21. I'm sure he'll do his best to break my early new years resolution


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Martin is a true gentleman.  Was pleasantly surprised by the 2020 calendar he sent out, it is now on my frige  thanked him for it the other day.  Billington is a tier 1 tube dealer, no doubt about it.


----------



## Monsterzero

So,the loud popping I heard when plugging in my headphones was def coming from one of the Sylvania 12j5s. Last night after enduring yet another loud pop,about an hour had passed and while listening,a series loud pops occurred mid-song on the right side. I immediately disconnected the VC from the cable at the cup,pulled the tubes and went back to Ken Rads. No more pops. The VC drivers survived,but I lost quite a bit of the separation I was hearing from the Sylvanias. I bought a new pair Syl 6J5s,last night for pretty cheap,non metal base and non VT-135 this time though. Bummer.

Ive been discussing with Glenn about having him do to my GOTL what Keenan did to his...Removing the C3G slots and replacing them with 6/12j5 sockets. Glenn mentioned keeping the 6SN7 slot and using it with adapters for other tubes. What other tube types sound good in the GOTL that would go in the 6SN7 slot?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Dec 23, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> So,the loud popping I heard when plugging in my headphones was def coming from one of the Sylvania 12j5s. Last night after enduring yet another loud pop,about an hour had passed and while listening,a series loud pops occurred mid-song on the right side. I immediately disconnected the VC from the cable at the cup,pulled the tubes and went back to Ken Rads. No more pops. The VC drivers survived,but I lost quite a bit of the separation I was hearing from the Sylvanias. I bought a new pair Syl 6J5s,last night for pretty cheap,non metal base and non VT-135 this time though. Bummer.
> 
> Ive been discussing with Glenn about having him do to my GOTL what Keenan did to his...Removing the C3G slots and replacing them with 6/12j5 sockets. Glenn mentioned keeping the 6SN7 slot and using it with adapters for other tubes. What other tube types sound good in the GOTL that would go in the 6SN7 slot?



Hey D - for me, the Mullard ECC32 can hang with the soundstage/separation of the 6J5.  To a lesser extent, some of the better 6N7G tubes can as well (Mullard ECC31, Fivre, Visseaux).  I listen to the Fivre black plate 6SN7GT now and then, but that is more a tonality thing, definitely suffers some staging and separation loss, but I don't have an exact equivalent 6J5 at the moment (black plate Fivre 6J5GT are rare and the pairs that do show up are $300+).  Those are the only dual triode driver tubes I use in the GOTL now, and pretty rarely.  Otherwise it is a straight 6J5G/6C5G partay.

Now that I think about it, my 6SN7 slot has basically become the ECC32 slot.  I had thought about changing the bias point to better suit the ECC32, I may get around to doing that when I don't have my hands full...

Just my $0.02.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> So,the loud popping I heard when plugging in my headphones was def coming from one of the Sylvania 12j5s. Last night after enduring yet another loud pop,about an hour had passed and while listening,a series loud pops occurred mid-song on the right side. I immediately disconnected the VC from the cable at the cup,pulled the tubes and went back to Ken Rads. No more pops. The VC drivers survived,but I lost quite a bit of the separation I was hearing from the Sylvanias. I bought a new pair Syl 6J5s,last night for pretty cheap,non metal base and non VT-135 this time though. Bummer.
> 
> Ive been discussing with Glenn about having him do to my GOTL what Keenan did to his...Removing the C3G slots and replacing them with 6/12j5 sockets. Glenn mentioned keeping the 6SN7 slot and using it with adapters for other tubes. What other tube types sound good in the GOTL that would go in the 6SN7 slot?


These popping sounds in the old Sylvania tubes could come from loose solder by the pins - you may be able to cure it by reheating the pins with a soldering iron. Had luck with three Sylvania tubes so far.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> These popping sounds in the old Sylvania tubes could come from loose solder by the pins - you may be able to cure it by reheating the pins with a soldering iron. Had luck with three Sylvania tubes so far.


 Interesting. I actually bought a soldering iron for this reason,but up until now Ive not had a reason to actually take it out of its box. I sense an experiment coming up,but the VC wont be the headphones to test the results.



L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey D - for me, the Mullard ECC32 can hang with the soundstage/separation of the 6J5.  To a lesser extent, some of the better 6N7G tubes can as well (Mullard ECC31, Fivre, Visseaux).  I listen to the Fivre black plate 6SN7GT now and then, but that is more a tonality thing, definitely suffers some staging and separation loss, but I don't have an exact equivalent 6J5 at the moment (black plate Fivre 6J5G are rare and the pairs that do show up are $300+).  Those are the only dual triode driver tubes I use in the GOTL now, and pretty rarely.  Otherwise it is a straight 6J5G/6C5G partay.
> 
> Now that I think about it, my 6SN7 slot has basically become the ECC32 slot.  I had thought about changing the bias point to better suit the ECC32, I may get around to doing that when I don't have my hands full...
> 
> Just my $0.02.



I'll drop you a PM Keenan.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Interesting. I actually bought a soldering iron for this reason,but up until now Ive not had a reason to actually take it out of its box. I sense an experiment coming up,but the VC wont be the headphones to test the results.
> 
> Maybe you saved one of those headsets they give out from an airplane trip - those would work for testing lol.


----------



## Monsterzero

I have an old DT990 600 ohms that I cant sell,even for $80.00,so it will remain as my sacrificial test set.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Ive been discussing with Glenn about having him do to my GOTL what Keenan did to his...Removing the C3G slots and replacing them with 6/12j5 sockets. Glenn mentioned keeping the 6SN7 slot and using it with adapters for other tubes. What other tube types sound good in the GOTL that would go in the 6SN7 slot?


Would it be possible to give up two of the 6BL7 sockets instead? I wouldn't want to give up the C3g.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> I don't have an exact equivalent 6J5 at the moment (black plate Fivre 6J5G are rare and the pairs that do show up are $300+).


I don't think I've ever seen a Fivre 6J5G. Do you have some old listings to share? I've seen and own Fivre 6J5GT, 6C5GT and 6C5G. With my amp I can also use 6N7 in the 6J5 sockets.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> I don't think I've ever seen a Fivre 6J5G. Do you have some old listings to share? I've seen and own Fivre 6J5GT, 6C5GT and 6C5G. With my amp I can also use 6N7 in the 6J5 sockets.



Sorry that was a typo, 6J5GT, there isn't a 6J5G (or if there is, I have never seen one).  Fixed!  I have a gray plate pair, was hunting some black plates but then the MH4 tubes rocked my world.  Priorities have changed!


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Would it be possible to give up two of the 6BL7 sockets instead? I wouldn't want to give up the C3g.



Thats a question that only Glenn can answer,but I never use C3Gs anymore,nor 6SN7s for that matter. The only tubes I have that can go in the C3G slots are the C3gs themselves and a pair of EL8s I bought from JV(I think).

I dont really want to close one rabbit hole to create a brand new one. Im am overly ecstatic with the sound coming from system at the moment,pops and occasional low level noise that the various adapters create not withstanding.

The cable video I did created a new rabbit hole for me... $1700.00 later,I want to upgrade the rest of the power cables across the board and_ finally_ call it....game over.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sorry that was a typo, 6J5GT, there isn't a 6J5G (or if there is, I have never seen one).  Fixed!  I have a gray plate pair, was hunting some black plates but then the MH4 tubes rocked my world.  Priorities have changed!


Pheewww you almost had me considering breaking my new years resolution before 2020 had even started  I'll have to check my pairs of 6J5GT and see if any are black plates, but I'm pretty sure they are all grey plates.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Thats a question that only Glenn can answer,but I never use C3Gs anymore,nor 6SN7s for that matter. The only tubes I have that can go in the C3G slots are the C3gs themselves and a pair of EL8s I bought from JV(I think).


In my 1101 V6 amp, there is a large difference between the C3g and the other driver tubes. It's not something I'd be willing to give up. But, 4 6BL7 instead of 6 6BL7? Yeah I could live with that. Obviously, things might be different in your GOTL amp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> Pheewww you almost had me considering breaking my new years resolution before 2020 had even started  I'll have to check my pairs of 6J5GT and see if any are black plates, but I'm pretty sure they are all grey plates.



Yeah, the black plates don't show up often and are very pricey from what I have seen, couple pairs on eBay right now for $399.  There is a distinct difference in sound between the gray plate and black plate Fivre 6SN7GT, so I would expect the same for the 6J5GT.  I want the black plate sound in a 6J5, but again, gave up the hunt since I am now staring down a multi-thousand dollar component/test equipment/tube/DAC shopping list.

I did grab those 1940s Fivre 6L6G I mentioned though.  My wallet says no but my heart says yes.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yeah, the black plates don't show up often and are very pricey from what I have seen, couple pairs on eBay right now for $399.  There is a distinct difference in sound between the gray plate and black plate Fivre 6SN7GT, so I would expect the same for the 6J5GT.  I want the black plate sound in a 6J5, but again, gave up the hunt since I am now staring down a multi-thousand dollar component/test equipment/tube/DAC shopping list.
> 
> I did grab those 1940s Fivre 6L6G I mentioned though.  My wallet says no but my heart says yes.


Let me guess, that $399 price is from an Italian seller? Those guys crack me up. I have found one good Italian seller though, and purchased quite a few used/test well, but quite tatty tubes from him. The pins and bases cleaned up nicely with a bit of IPA/sandpaper/IPA treatment. 

Those 6L6G are nice. I think I have the same with smoked glass and hanging filaments. I'll have to post up pics of other Fivre 6L6G so folks can see the differences with these. There appears to have been many structural changes over the years...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> Let me guess, that $399 price is from an Italian seller? Those guys crack me up. I have found one good Italian seller though, and purchased quite a few used/test well, but quite tatty tubes from him. The pins and bases cleaned up nicely with a bit of IPA/sandpaper/IPA treatment.
> 
> Those 6L6G are nice. I think I have the same with smoked glass and hanging filaments. I'll have to post up pics of other Fivre 6L6G so folks can see the differences with these. There appears to have been many structural changes over the years...



You know it!  I have a good Italian seller as well, nice fella, not terrible prices, still insists I pay the Paypal fees though, you can't have it all I guess 

The seller I bought the 6L6 from has other pairs of different construction, brown base with black plates, might go back for more depending on how this purchase plays out.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> So,the loud popping I heard when plugging in my headphones was def coming from one of the Sylvania 12j5s. Last night after enduring yet another loud pop,about an hour had passed and while listening,a series loud pops occurred mid-song on the right side. I immediately disconnected the VC from the cable at the cup,pulled the tubes and went back to Ken Rads. No more pops. The VC drivers survived,but I lost quite a bit of the separation I was hearing from the Sylvanias. I bought a new pair Syl 6J5s,last night for pretty cheap,non metal base and non VT-135 this time though. Bummer.
> 
> Ive been discussing with Glenn about having him do to my GOTL what Keenan did to his...Removing the C3G slots and replacing them with 6/12j5 sockets. Glenn mentioned keeping the 6SN7 slot and using it with adapters for other tubes. What other tube types sound good in the GOTL that would go in the 6SN7 slot?




All of the Mullards sounds glorious to me in Glenns OTL

ECC31/32/33/35


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> All of the Mullards sounds glorious to me in Glenns OTL
> 
> ECC31/32/33/35


 Yep. I have the Mullard ECC35. It,along with the B36 and TS BGRP are my 3 favs. Do you know if there are any 6J5 equivelants?
So it looks like im sending my amp back to Glenn in Feb for reconstructive surgery. Anyone have any leads on pool noodles?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

whirlwind said:


> All of the Mullards sounds glorious to me in Glenns OTL
> 
> ECC31/32/33/35



I concur with my ECC33 and ECC32 drivers 

@Monsterzero 

ECC32 & Sylvania 6sn7w are two of my favs notwithstanding that I am very much enjoying the GEC 6J5G ST tubes 

I did try a pair of Sylvania 6J5 metal base tubes, but I would rather just run the 6sn7w without adaptor, lower noise floor. This tube may not have ST shape but it just does good things for me with many of the tube combos that I have tried.


----------



## Monsterzero

Ive been keeping an eye out for GEC L63s. Has anyone compared the S/T to the regular. The S/T seem to be more $$$.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Yep. I have the Mullard ECC35. It,along with the B36 and TS BGRP are my 3 favs. Do you know if there are any 6J5 equivelants?
> So it looks like im sending my amp back to Glenn in Feb for reconstructive surgery. Anyone have any leads on pool noodles?




There are Mullard 6J5GT tubes...I do not own any, so I can not comment on their sound.


----------



## maxpudding (Dec 24, 2019)

I too asked for the 6/12j5 sockets for my GOTL that Glenn will build for me, with wooden chassis. But due to some limitations on its size (the largest he could find), Glenn mentioned the rectifier tube won't fit on the amp with all the other options thrown in, so I opted for the hexfred instead. Hopefully it all goes well 

Anyways, merry xmas and happy holidays everyone


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I don't think you all will regret having the 6J5 sockets put in, makes for a very nice looking tube layout.  Here is the Fivre 6C5G and the Western Electric 421A (with Christmas accents).


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Dec 24, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Yep. I have the Mullard ECC35. It,along with the B36 and TS BGRP are my 3 favs. Do you know if there are any 6J5 equivelants?
> So it looks like im sending my amp back to Glenn in Feb for reconstructive surgery. Anyone have any leads on pool noodles?



The closest equivalent to the B36 is the GEC L63 shouldered with gray glass.  I haven't compared them to the staight clear glass GEC L63, but they have very different internal construction.  While they are expensive, the sound matches the price and it is very much worth orwning a pair.  The Tung-Sol BGRP equivalent is the Tung-Sol 6J5G (shouldered) with ladder plates but there is also a Tung-Sol 6J5GT (straight glass).  Can't comment on how they compare, I only have the shouldered, but I can tell you they are one of the very best 6J5s I own.  They very much capture the sound of the BGRP 6SN7GT.

Here is a post where I briefly compared the BGRP and Tung-Sol 6J5G: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1958#post-15152863


----------



## whirlwind (Dec 24, 2019)

leftside said:


> In my 1101 V6 amp, there is a large difference between the C3g and the other driver tubes. It's not something I'd be willing to give up. But, 4 6BL7 instead of 6 6BL7? Yeah I could live with that. Obviously, things might be different in your GOTL amp.




The OTL sounds great with 4  6BL7/6BX7

I have to use adapters ,  four tubes is much easier to get black back round and sounds great.
I love the C3g as you do.  I like them with RCA 6AS7G , which would be considered cheap by what other 6AS7G tubes sell for.
I have no idea what these sell for these days, a fews years back I got some matched sets for $20 a set, they sound great with my amp.

The very alive C3g and the warmness of the RCA power tube  works for me.

I don't use the 6BX7/6BL7 anymore .
I just use the 6080 & 6AS7G .

My OTL amps back round is dark and I can get it that way with more combinations than I can ever use.
If the amp is making a noise, it is because of a tube. in which case I just replace it.

I don't even own a nice set of RCA 6080.  I may pick up a set.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> The closest equivalent to the B36 is the GEC L63 shouldered with gray glass.  I haven't compared them to the staight clear glass GEC L63, but they have very different internal construction.  While they are expensive, the sound matches the price and it is very much worth orwning a pair.  The Tung-Sol BGRP equivalent is the Tung-Sol 6J5G (shouldered) with ladder plates but there is also a Tung-Sol 6J5GT (straight glass).  Can't comment on how they compare, I only have the shouldered, but I can tell you they are one of the very best 6J5s I own.  They very much capture the sound of the BGRP 6SN7GT.
> 
> Here is a post where I briefly compared the BGRP and Tung-Sol 6J5G: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1958#post-15152863




I was going to grab some Tung Sol 6J5G, but passed as I have a few SN7 and 6FG8 and Glenn said he can make my amp use both 6 and 12 volt  J5 tubes and SN7 tubes.

Having the ECC32 biased correctly could be worth it, but it sounds great in Glenns SN7 socket, so maybe why bother.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Dec 24, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> I was going to grab some Tung Sol 6J5G, but passed as I have a few SN7 and 6FG8 and Glenn said he can make my amp use both 6 and 12 volt  J5 tubes and SN7 tubes.
> 
> Having the ECC32 biased correctly could be worth it, but it sounds great in Glenns SN7 socket, so maybe why bother.



Yeah it is just an idea at this point, something to keep my hands busy.  The thinking is the ECC32 is the only tube I use in that slot really and I own very few 6SN7s now, so why not optimize it?  But I have a queue of projects now, so wouldn't get to it for months anyway.  It definitely does sound good as is and probably would make little difference, just a little project to work on.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> There are Mullard 6J5GT tubes...I do not own any, so I can not comment on their sound.





L0rdGwyn said:


> The Tung-Sol BGRP equivalent is the Tung-Sol 6J5G (shouldered) with ladder plates but there is also a Tung-Sol 6J5GT (straight glass).  Can't comment on how they compare, I only have the shouldered, but I can tell you they are one of the very best 6J5s I own.  They very much capture the sound of the BGRP 6SN7GT.
> 
> Here is a post where I briefly compared the BGRP and Tung-Sol 6J5G: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1958#post-15152863


I'll have to do a comparison of these tubes when I have time. I have the metal base TS 6J5GT with round plates and with ladder plates. Back row from left to right:
Mullard D getter, ladder plates
Sylvania foil getter, round plates
TungSol foil getter, round plates(tubes look identical to Sylvania...)

Front row from left to right:
Brimar foil getter, ladder plates
TungSol foil getter, ladder plates






I also have 6J5GT KenRad metal base, Fivre metal base and Osram metal base.

The GEC/MWT/Marconi/Osram ST clear glass have different versions: 
cup getter (rare), d getter (quite rare) and halo getter (fairly common). I haven't had time to compare the differences in the new amp yet.


----------



## chrisdrop

leftside said:


> I'll have to do a comparison of these tubes when I have time. I have the metal base TS 6J5GT with round plates and with ladder plates. Back row from left to right:
> Mullard D getter, ladder plates
> Sylvania foil getter, round plates
> TungSol foil getter, round plates(tubes look identical to Sylvania...)
> ...


Now I see why you are considering cutting back on the tube buying ! Not a bad sampling from this part of the 6J5 universe.


----------



## chrisdrop

After a bit of going back to c3gs this morning, I have swapped to these "Hytron 6C5GT/G"s. They have various little markings on them but not sure how to date them, aside from saying they are pre CBS purchase in the early 1950s.  So far, pretty full, not shy on the low end. They may be slamming a bit harder than the Sylvania 12J5s I was using the past 2 days.  They are mellow in contrast to the c3gs, but enjoyable and preserving the whole vibe of good imaging/ separation/ staging. Only an hour or so at this point, so keen to see how they change.

 

On another note, I went to my 17 y/o's "game room" and he was revising (studying). His flash-cards looked relevant! Perhaps he will remind me a thing or 3! Even better ... future amp building cheap labour???


----------



## leftside

chrisdrop said:


> Now I see why you are considering cutting back on the tube buying ! Not a bad sampling from this part of the 6J5 universe.


And that's just a small sample... I have a lot more. Other priorities next year though.


----------



## Monsterzero

I know this has been mentioned before,but I cant find it...

What is the recommended temp to have the soldering iron set to for trying to eliminate pops and noise from a tube?
Also correct area of the pin to apply heat? Tip? Near base? For approx how long?


----------



## chrisdrop

Monsterzero said:


> I know this has been mentioned before,but I cant find it...
> 
> What is the recommended temp to have the soldering iron set to for trying to eliminate pops and noise from a tube?
> Also correct area of the pin to apply heat? Tip? Near base? For approx how long?


This may be the post from dr @mordy https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2288#post-15317487


----------



## Xcalibur255

Happy Holidays to everybody.  I wish you all a prosperous 2020.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I know this has been mentioned before,but I cant find it...
> 
> What is the recommended temp to have the soldering iron set to for trying to eliminate pops and noise from a tube?
> Also correct area of the pin to apply heat? Tip? Near base? For approx how long?



About using the soldering iron I tried using it for different time periods - seems that 30 seconds does the trick - my soldering iron is 50W. You just want to heat up the pin so that the solder flows a little inside the pin in order to make a better solder connection. Too much heat and the solder will start to come out.
Hold the tube slanted down so that if the solder flows it does not end up inside the tube. If you see the solder flow out, stop.
I used a large tip and tried to touch the tip along the length of the pin. Used a watch to time each pin, making sure to go slowly around the tube and not miss any pin. You may have to check the pins afterwards for oxidation and/or excess solder.
There are different types of solder used and sometimes you have to repeat this process if it does not work the first time.
ATM I am listening to a rescued Sylvania 6SN7W that used to make horrible noises and pops - now it is just fine.
There really is nothing to this process and it is very simple and easy.


----------



## 2359glenn

You can also add a little solder to the tip of the pin


----------



## whirlwind

Merry Christmas


----------



## rosgr63

Merry Christmas!!!


----------



## chrisdrop

Merry Christmas fellow listeners!!


----------



## whirlwind

My wife has surprised me...looks like we will be having a Norditac Treadmill delivered in early January.

This will be interesting as I have not worked out since the 90's.


----------



## 2359glenn

Merry Christmas


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Merry Christmas everyone


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Have a blessed Christmas folks


----------



## Monsterzero

Merry Christmas everyone


----------



## Phantaminum

Merry Christmas! Hope your stockings are filled with holy grail tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Pair of Tung-Sol Black Glass Round plate 6SN7 $209.95
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-TUNG-...811470?hash=item23cd83a28e:g:r3cAAOSwRDRd~8v4


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Pair of Tung-Sol Black Glass Round plate 6SN7 $209.95
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-TUNG-...811470?hash=item23cd83a28e:g:r3cAAOSwRDRd~8v4



Oval mica to boot


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Oval mica to boot



I would have bought them but I no longer use 6SN7s figured someone on here could use them.
Not a bad price for TSBGRP.


----------



## mordy (Dec 26, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> I would have bought them but I no longer use 6SN7s figured someone on here could use them.
> Not a bad price for TSBGRP.


IMHO it appears to me that a pair of metal Tung Sol 6J5 sounds better - at 1/10th of the cost or less.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> IMHO it appears to me that a pair of metal Tung Sol 6J5 sounds better - at 1/10th of the cost or less.



Good thing not many know about this.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> IMHO it appears to me that a pair of metal Tung Sol 6J5 sounds better - at 1/10th of the cost or less.


 Is there an online store that has these in stock,or did you chance upon them on eBay?


----------



## chrisdrop

chrisdrop said:


> After a bit of going back to c3gs this morning, I have swapped to these "Hytron 6C5GT/G"s. They have various little markings on them but not sure how to date them, aside from saying they are pre CBS purchase in the early 1950s.  So far, pretty full, not shy on the low end. They may be slamming a bit harder than the Sylvania 12J5s I was using the past 2 days.  They are mellow in contrast to the c3gs, but enjoyable and preserving the whole vibe of good imaging/ separation/ staging. Only an hour or so at this point, so keen to see how they change.



I am happy to say that these Hytron 6C5GTs are quite enjoyable. Whilst my family was enjoying their gifts yesterday, I got a bit of listening time. While they were all sleeping this morning, I got back to listening 

I think someone else mentioned regarding tubes with this "inner mesh" (not sure correct label); they seem to take a longer time to warm up. They have quiet regular clinks for 30 mins or so (nothing 'bad' like popping, etc, just the warm-up/cool-down sounds). They went through a few hours where I felt the bottom end had a bit of hash, but it has cleared. 

Compared to the Sylvania 12 & 6v J5s, the bass is a bit tighter, but with similar depth. Compared to the GEC 6J5s, they are a bit less precise sounding, but a bit fuller. The GECs are best at mid and upper clarity of the 6J5s I have. Tomorrow I will go back to the Sylvania 12J5s and see if these impressions hold...


----------



## mordy

Both - VIVA Tubes has them and their website prices seem to be lower than their Ebay prices. The RCA 6J5 is equally good - could be that some Tung Sol tubes were made by them as well.
If you have patience you can find small lots on eBay for around $2-3/ tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

Some tubes that look good L63.  This seller has allot of nice tubes

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-L63-HA...991520?hash=item48da1d3120:g:AVsAAOSwuP9dh11x
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-L63-MW...534669?hash=item59400abc0d:g:XhIAAOSwxSFdh00n


----------



## mordy

Without having heard the GEC L63 (6J5), but based on reading other people's impressions, I am sure that they sound a little bit better than the garden variety 6J5 tubes. However, the biggest bang for the buck goes to the RCA/TS 6J5 metal tubes that sound almost as good for a fraction of the price.


2359glenn said:


> Some tubes that look good L63.  This seller has allot of nice tubes
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-L63-HA...991520?hash=item48da1d3120:g:AVsAAOSwuP9dh11x
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-L63-MW...534669?hash=item59400abc0d:g:XhIAAOSwxSFdh00n


Do you know if they were made by GEC?


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 26, 2019)

mordy said:


> Without having heard the GEC L63 (6J5), but based on reading other people's impressions, I am sure that they sound a little bit better than the garden variety 6J5 tubes. However, the biggest bang for the buck goes to the RCA/TS 6J5 metal tubes that sound almost as good for a fraction of the price.
> 
> Do you know if they were made by GEC?



Not sure they have the oval plates that usually sound good in tubes made in UK


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Both - VIVA Tubes has them and their website prices seem to be lower than their Ebay prices. The RCA 6J5 is equally good - could be that some Tung Sol tubes were made by them as well.
> If you have patience you can find small lots on eBay for around $2-3/ tube.


 thanks Mordy. I just ordered a pair from Viva's website for $23.00 shipped


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Without having heard the GEC L63 (6J5), but based on reading other people's impressions, I am sure that they sound a little bit better than the garden variety 6J5 tubes. However, the biggest bang for the buck goes to the RCA/TS 6J5 metal tubes that sound almost as good for a fraction of the price.
> 
> Do you know if they were made by GEC?



The shouldered Haltron pair Glenn linked are made by STC/Brimar.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UsoppNoKami said:


> Pretty lightbulbs..




 

Out with the Bendix 6080, in with the GEC 6080.. all GEC set up this weekend for drivers and power tubes. U52 staying in its box, WE422A still on duty given the power tube selection


----------



## 2359glenn

Not that bad of a price for a FW4/500
http://www.hotroxuk.com/mullard-fw4-500-rectifier.html


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Not that bad of a price for a FW4/500
> http://www.hotroxuk.com/mullard-fw4-500-rectifier.html



If I didn't have one I'd be tempted.  Here is mine, it is rebranded as a Marconi U18/20, but it is really a Mullard NU12 (same as the FW4/500).

 

My rectifier shopping list includes a Cossor 45-IU and Telefunken RGN2504, but waiting until my amp is built first to see the current draw, the RGN2504 can only handle 180mA.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> If I didn't have one I'd be tempted.  Here is mine, it is rebranded as a Marconi U18/20, but it is really a Mullard NU12 (same as the FW4/500).
> 
> 
> 
> My rectifier shopping list includes a Cossor 45-IU and Telefunken RGN2504, but waiting until my amp is built first to see the current draw, the RGN2504 can only handle 180mA.



The RGN2504 will be close you have to add in the recharge current. The current to recharge the filters after the sign wave was at 0 volts and the amp
was running on the charge in the capacitors. This has to replaced plus the current the amp is drawing. 
This is a simple explanation.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Dec 28, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> The RGN2504 will be close you have to add in the recharge current. The current to recharge the filters after the sign wave was at 0 volts and the amp
> was running on the charge in the capacitors. This has to replaced plus the current the amp is drawing.
> This is a simple explanation.



Gotcha, yes it will be close.  Design is still changing, would be nice to use these globe rectifiers but I just don't know if it is going to work.  Will have to crunch the numbers once I know where the power tubes will be biased.  As it stands right now, I am looking at 140-160mA just for the tubes, probably too much but we will see.  Would say I could use the RGN4004 but it takes 4A on the filaments, crazy.


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Gotcha, yes it will be close.  Design is still changing, would be nice to use these globe rectifiers but I just don't know if it is going to work.  Will have to crunch the numbers once I know where the power tubes will be biased.  As it stands right now, I am looking at 140-160mA just for the tubes, probably too much but we will see.  Would say I could use the RGN4004 but it takes 4A on the filaments, crazy.



And this is the main reason I run four 6BX7 as opposed to six. I can safely run RGN2504, and equivalents, plus AZ4 and AZ12. And of course, with the stock American transformer, 4A is no problem. I currently have five RGN4004, including equivalents from Valvo and Philips-Holland, as well.


----------



## gibosi (Dec 28, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is mine, it is rebranded as a Marconi U18/20, but it is really a Mullard NU12 (same as the FW4/500).



They are not quite the same. The major difference is heater current. The NU12 draws 3.75A whereas the FW4/500 draws 3.0A. The later FW4/500 can safely be substituted for a NU12. But due to the higher current draw, it might not be safe to use the older NU12 in a circuit designed for a FW4/500.

Unfortunately, these tubes, both manufactured by Mullard, look almost identical and I know of no way to reliably differentiate between them by eye. While not definitive, I believe that the taller tubes, often with elaborate top mica spacers, and more internal bracing are likely to be the older NU12, and the shorter tubes with less internal bracing are likely to be FW4/500. But again, this is just a hunch on my part.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> They are not quite the same. The major difference is heater current. The NU12 draws 3.75A whereas the FW4/500 draws 3.0A. The later FW4/500 can safely be substituted for a NU12. But due to the higher current draw, it might not be safe to use the older NU12 in a circuit designed for a FW4/500.
> 
> Unfortunately, these tubes look almost identical and I know of no way to reliably differentiate between them by eye. While not definitive, I believe that the taller tubes, often with elaborate top mica spacers, and more internal bracing are likely to be the older NU12, and the shorter tubes with less internal bracing are likely to be FW4/500. But again, this is just a hunch on my part.



In that case, I suspect it is a FW4-500 unless it is an NU12 falsley rebranded as a U18/20 with a 3.75A filament.  I think I had found an NU12 with identical internal construction to this tube, I'll have to look again.  The amplifier I am building with have a 3.1A maximum filament current, which is prohibitive to using the RGN4004.  The RGN2504 will be borderline depending on how hot I bias the power tubes, TBD.


----------



## chrisdrop

Haltron L63s. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-L63-...TYPE-MADE-IN-UK-1950-S-9A-EN-AIR/312896991520

They are pretty, and got bid heavily "into the close" as the auction is ending.

If I understand correctly, Haltron was just a re-brander. Any idea who the manufacturer of these would have been?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> Haltron L63s.
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-L63-...TYPE-MADE-IN-UK-1950-S-9A-EN-AIR/312896991520
> 
> ...



They are STC/Brimar.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

There are some construction differences, but here is my STC pair.


----------



## chrisdrop (Dec 28, 2019)

Thanks @L0rdGwyn. You are a font of knowledge 

Those are pretty tubes. Some of those shiny shoulder types are lovely.

On another note, after just about giving up on my c3g pairing experiments; I am currently on a configuration that I like:

2x Sylvania 12J5GT
2x Seimens c3g
2x Bendix 6080
Right now, I think I prefer this combo to either of the 2 input pairs on their own.

@UsoppNoKami - your comment on c3g pairing, "_it made the C3g treble less hot by adding some warmth and smoothness_" is what prompted the pairing. I had cycled through various inputs, and while I really wanted something to work, they didn't. The GEC 6J5s + c3gs _really_ didn't work FWIW. I remembered that comment - and grabbed the 12J5s ... it is an hour later now and I'm still listening. In the morning I will try the 12J5s on their own and try to do a bit more comparison, but for now - the music is absorbing !


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> Thanks @L0rdGwyn. You are a font of knowledge
> 
> Those are pretty tubes. Some of those shiny shoulder types are lovely.
> 
> ...



Yes, indeed!  I bet this combination has some incredibly smooth, detailed and exhilarating mids!

Well done!


----------



## JazzVinyl

I am 'driver triplet-ing' with the EL32's adapted to C3g sockets and a pair of 1940's RCA 6J5's and 4x 6080's.
Find it magically appealing!


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Not that bad of a price for a FW4/500
> http://www.hotroxuk.com/mullard-fw4-500-rectifier.html


I am sure that people know this, but I think that if you order from the UK or Germany and live in the US (and maybe other countries) you are exempt from the value added tax (VAT) which brings down the purchase price around 17%.
Wonder if Brexit will have an effect on UK prices?


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I am 'driver triplet-ing' with the EL32's adapted to C3g sockets and a pair of 1940's RCA 6J5's and 4x 6080's.
> Find it magically appealing!


Trying Chrisdrop's recipe now with a pair of Sylvania 12J5GT, a pair of C3g and a pair of 6080WB graphite plates (Raytheon - should be very similar to the Bendix) - this sounds very good, but need more time to digest the sound signature.
Very clear and dynamic, more than plenty of volume with the single pair 6080 and very quiet.


----------



## 2359glenn

That is great if the *J5 mellows the C3g


----------



## mordy

It seems that the *J5 tubes help to smoothen out the the brightness and incisive qualities of the C3g but as said, I need more time and I am not ready to finalize my impressions yet.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 29, 2019)

Brand New 1940's Tung-Sol 12J5's and Quad of 6080's...

The 6080's are all being heated with an external 20 amp 6.3v transformer...to keep my baby cool


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> It seems that the *J5 tubes help to smoothen out the the brightness and incisive qualities of the C3g but as said, I need more time and I am not ready to finalize my impressions yet.



I spent much of my experimental time with the C3g using them in combination with a pair of TS 5998.  That combination definitely needed to be mellowed .  I'm curious to hear more impressions about how the C3g balances out the *J5 tubes, especially the metal RCA 6J5.  I'm still working through a backlog of these RCA tubes that I bought in the last 2 months (almost all of which I think are fantastic; these tubes are a steal at the prices they go for IMHO).  Once that's done I'll try the @chrisdrop recipe with the C3g and metal RCA 6J5 (power tubes to be decided later).

The holidays have been interfering with listening time, but I suppose it's more important to spend time with family/friends right?


----------



## chrisdrop

Now that I am getting to play w/ my small pile of 6BX7s and other tubes that were too noisy before ... I had my 1st tube arc today!  (FYI - no @JazzVinyl it was not one of yours )

Thankfully - I had my $20 sacrificial 10-year-old Sennheiser headphones plugged in so no driver risk on my VCs! 

The tube looked very clean. I was surprised it was _that tube_. A very bright flash ... then no red cherry of colour. I know you for many experienced tube owners this is old-hat, but the experience is kind of startling!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Dec 30, 2019)

Doing some reading on grid stopper resistors in one of my books I got for Christmas.  Not sure the author thought through the subscripts in this formula.  Not just for grid stoppers, when you stub your toe, get a parking ticket...it is a universal formula.  Yes, I have the maturity of a 13-year-old.


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> Now that I am getting to play w/ my small pile of 6BX7s and other tubes that were too noisy before ... I had my 1st tube arc today!  (FYI - no @JazzVinyl it was not one of yours )
> 
> Thankfully - I had my $20 sacrificial 10-year-old Sennheiser headphones plugged in so no driver risk on my VCs!
> 
> The tube looked very clean. I was surprised it was _that tube_. A very bright flash ... then no red cherry of colour. I know you for many experienced tube owners this is old-hat, but the experience is kind of startling!



Hello Chrisdrop!

Yeah to the arc'ing 6BX7's *not* being one of mine 

I was away for a bit and many messages went by, have not caught up, but curious what finally cured your noise ill's, Chris?

This morning I am trying your C3g/6J5 formula...liking it, but like @mordy - need more time 

Cheers!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Doing some reading on grid stopper resistors in one of my books I got for Christmas.  Not sure the author thought through the subscripts in this formula.  Not just for grid stoppers, when you stub your toe, get a parking ticket...it is a universal formula.  Yes, I have the maturity of a 13-year-old.



LOL....I like it!  
Dag-gone, Ohm's law...


----------



## chrisdrop

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Chrisdrop!
> 
> Yeah to the arc'ing 6BX7's *not* being one of mine
> 
> ...


Full dramatisation here : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crazy-power-noise-saga.922126/

Basically voltage regulation sorted it. Not clear why but that did it.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Now that I am getting to play w/ my small pile of 6BX7s and other tubes that were too noisy before ... I had my 1st tube arc today!  (FYI - no @JazzVinyl it was not one of yours )
> 
> Thankfully - I had my $20 sacrificial 10-year-old Sennheiser headphones plugged in so no driver risk on my VCs!
> 
> The tube looked very clean. I was surprised it was _that tube_. A very bright flash ... then no red cherry of colour. I know you for many experienced tube owners this is old-hat, but the experience is kind of startling!



Was the arc on power up?  Or after it had been on for some time?  And how did the Senn's fare, did it damage the drivers?


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> Doing some reading on grid stopper resistors in one of my books I got for Christmas.  Not sure the author thought through the subscripts in this formula.  Not just for grid stoppers, when you stub your toe, get a parking ticket...it is a universal formula.  Yes, I have the maturity of a 13-year-old.



LOL.  Next time I stub my toe I'm multiplying all the expletives by 2*pi .  And it will be in the numerator of that equation.


----------



## chrisdrop

GDuss said:


> Was the arc on power up?  Or after it had been on for some time?  And how did the Senn's fare, did it damage the drivers?



Was around 30 sec after power-up. The sacrificial headphones escaped without being sacrificed. There was a loud pop in the ear, but they seem OK. I have around a dozen 6BX7s, 3 of which tested used/ working but < NOS. It was one of those that went.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> I spent much of my experimental time with the C3g using them in combination with a pair of TS 5998.  That combination definitely needed to be mellowed .  I'm curious to hear more impressions about how the C3g balances out the *J5 tubes, especially the metal RCA 6J5.  I'm still working through a backlog of these RCA tubes that I bought in the last 2 months (almost all of which I think are fantastic; these tubes are a steal at the prices they go for IMHO).  Once that's done I'll try the @chrisdrop recipe with the C3g and metal RCA 6J5 (power tubes to be decided later).
> 
> The holidays have been interfering with listening time, but I suppose it's more important to spend time with family/friends right?



This is a work in progress....
After listening to the pairs of Sylvania 12J5GT, C3g and 6080WB graphite plates I felt that as good as it sounded, there was an edginess and sharpness to the mid range - need a more mellow and sweet sound although the clarity, detail and treble were very good.
Tried just the 12J5 and 6080WB - missing the detail and clarity from the C3g.
Put back the C3g tubes and added back the second pair of RCA 6080.  Have used these two pairs of power tubes (6080WB graphite and RCA 6080) for months as my "platform" or rhythm section.
This quad works fairly well with the C3gs and lessens the sharpness of their presentation without losing the clarity, detail and treble. The C3gs add attack, bite and liveliness to the presentation, but still too bright for my taste.
i could understand that this clear, detailed and bright sound could be appealing, but it is not what is appealing to me in the long run - I want something more sweet, soft and musical, even if some of the detail is not going to be as pronounced.
So the C3g go back in my storage box.


chrisdrop said:


> Was around 30 sec after power-up. The sacrificial headphones escaped without being sacrificed. There was a loud pop in the ear, but they seem OK. I have around a dozen 6BX7s, 3 of which tested used/ working but < NOS. It was one of those that went.


Hi cd,
There are some people that will first turn on the tube amp for a couple of minutes, and only then plug in the headphones. This is as a precaution since usually arcing happens around start-up. On the other hand, I have seen accounts when it happened after playing for an hour or so.
So far I have been lucky and have not had arcing, but on several occasions bad tubes emitted large pops and explosive sounds so I am careful and forcing myself to follow my protocol of first firing up the amp, wait a little and then plug in the sacrificial headphones. Then, without music, I turn the amp volume to max to listen for hum and noise; usually my amp is quiet. If it hums, I check that the tubes are seated correctly.
When all seems clear, I unplug the cheap headphones, and turn on my speakers, without music, to max volume. This will usually reveal some noise since the volume is much louder than the headphone amp - this would be  earsplitting listening levels. I notice how far I have to turn back the volume to avoid noise, and this gives me an indication of how quiet the setup is.


----------



## mordy

Hi DGuss,
Should add to the above that I put back my Telefunken EL11 tubulars instead of the C3g and now the sound is much more to my liking with a sweeter presentation. Think Van Gogh vs laser cut photograph:


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> i could understand that this clear, detailed and bright sound could be appealing, but it is not what is appealing to me in the long run - I want something more sweet, soft and musical, even if some of the detail is not going to be as pronounced.



Totally agree.  I suppose the beauty of the GOTL is that you can have it if you want it, but you can change it out if you don't.



mordy said:


> Hi DGuss,
> Should add to the above that I put back my Telefunken EL11 tubulars instead of the C3g and now the sound is much more to my liking with a sweeter presentation. Think Van Gogh vs laser cut photograph:



And a great analogy .


----------



## DecentLevi

chrisdrop said:


> Now that I am getting to play w/ my small pile of 6BX7s and other tubes that were too noisy before ... I had my 1st tube arc today!  (FYI - no @JazzVinyl it was not one of yours )
> 
> Thankfully - I had my $20 sacrificial 10-year-old Sennheiser headphones plugged in so no driver risk on my VCs!
> 
> The tube looked very clean. I was surprised it was _that tube_. A very bright flash ... then no red cherry of colour. I know you for many experienced tube owners this is old-hat, but the experience is kind of startling!


Wow that must've been crazy. How loud was the bang from the headphone (assuming it wasn't on your head) and did it weather the storm? And any thoughts on what may have been the culprit, or if the tube showed any early warning signs? Thanks


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have been using the Metal 6J5 RCA's and pair of Siemens' C3g's as drivers...
2x 1970 Mullard 6080's and a 2x Russian 6H13C as powers...

And am very happy with the RCA 6J5's ability to 'mellow out' the C3g's yet retain their amazing details and clarity.

When I first tried this driver triplet...not so great, but let the RCA's get *good and warm* and things improved, considerably.

I like this driver combo!  Would not have tried it, if not for Chrisdrop's suggestions...


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 30, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi DGuss,
> Should add to the above that I put back my Telefunken EL11 tubulars instead of the C3g and now the sound is much more to my liking with a sweeter presentation. Think Van Gogh vs laser cut photograph:



Mordy, can you comment on EL32 vs EL11 as driver triplet mates for an SN7?


----------



## 2359glenn

When I want mellower sound I use the EL3N as a driver guess the EL11 is the same.


----------



## mordy (Dec 30, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Mordy, can you comment on EL32 vs EL11 as driver triplet mates for an SN7?


Hard to say unless you compare apples to apples - the synergy changes depending on which tubes you use.
At this time I am using a pair of 1946 Sylvania 12J5GT + a pair of tubular "skyscraper" Telefunken EL11. These El11 tubes sound more laid back than the ST type TFK EL11. I have found that if using triple drivers a more laid back tube usually works better.
Add to the Syls and EL tubes a quad of 6080 and you have a great sounding combination: Lively and holographic with beautiful tone; great detail and slam.
This is really very nice and engaging - enjoying this very much!

Re your question: IMHO the EL32 is better than the EL8, and maybe the EL11 T even better, but I would have to try it with the exact same tubes that you are using - will try to get to it since I have the tubes you are using.
In the past I used the Philips EL3N extensively but in a different amp - then I thought that the TFK ST EL11 sounded better. Each amp is different however.....


----------



## mordy

For the man who has everything - a USB powered LED light vacuum tube display:




Personally, I found a less time consuming and cheaper alternative - the leftover plastic bobbin from a roll of tape:



The display tube is a 1939 Telefunken EL12 DOA:



I am thinking of using this tube for a headphone hanger....


----------



## chrisdrop

FYI my six-pack of 6B*L*7s was dead quiet last night. Very pleased!

I have asked @Deyan to make me some ceramic-base socket-savers like I believe @mordy has for my outputs.

The 2x 6J5 adapter is basically fixed as the ultimate socket saver in that slot. We will see how much rolling happens in the c3g slots, but that has to be adapter based for anything other than the c3gs anyhow.


DecentLevi said:


> Wow that must've been crazy. How loud was the bang from the headphone (assuming it wasn't on your head) and did it weather the storm? And any thoughts on what may have been the culprit, or if the tube showed any early warning signs? Thanks



It was on my head. The pop in my ear was pretty loud (although no ringing etc afterwards). It was not awful. I would not have wanted this on expensive headphones, however. I also like hearing, so a longer period with no headphones and no headphones on my head for new or untrustworthy valves would be good when using new valves. I have tried to keep notes on sound process in my amp crib-sheet here. 

I was trying to find a humming tube. It identified itself - loudly! The buzzing tube is the one that popped. As the pic above shows, the tube looked very clean (fresh getter, etc). It flashed bright light, then there was no more glow. In terms of "early warning", the buzzing tube was the warning. I expected to have to sort of branch and bound the valves ultimately isolating the tube to remove. L/R swapping will give you the side, then you just have to get rid of the buzzing one. Buzzing -> arcing in this case.


----------



## chrisdrop

FWIW @mordy - I have removed the c3gs this morning, just back on the 12J5s... It is pretty sweet  I like 'em both ways - and I see where you are coming from. 

I also need to get me some of the older RCA 6J5s I think. I have some newer (post logo change) RCAs and I don't love them as much as most of the other (6|12)(J|C)5 valves in my humble pile.

And in the spirit of your photo-expression of sound, this was Scotney castle on my walk yesterday in the countryside. It sorta sounds like what I am listening to now!! Calm, clear, detailed and very enjoyable. 

 

As a pictorial representation of Koda (which if I have ref'd before; apologies!)


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> FWIW @mordy - I have removed the c3gs this morning, just back on the 12J5s... It is pretty sweet  I like 'em both ways - and I see where you are coming from.
> 
> I also need to get me some of the older RCA 6J5s I think. I have some newer (post logo change) RCAs and I don't love them as much as most of the other (6|12)(J|C)5 valves in my humble pile.
> 
> ...




Congrats Chrisdrop on quiet 6x 6BX7's!  Yeah, you did it!  So glad you hung in there and didn't let the noisy mains get the best of you!

And your "Suicide Sheep" song...very nice!  Was a little afraid to click he link...with a name like "Suicide Sheep", was expecting something very different than the poetic and mellow tune, that I heard


----------



## chrisdrop

Thanks, @JazzVinyl  but ...



chrisdrop said:


> my six-pack of 6B*L*7s was dead quiet last night.



They very pretty 6B*L*7s were short of usable before with my "evil hum" - and now; sweet. 

I had a quiet-_enough_ 6B*X*7s set going yesterday, but_ not really 100% quiet_ set yet  Perhaps I have a "super-quiet" obsession now!  After the arcing 6BX7, I left the working good-enough set in and just enjoyed even with a bit of tube noise. I will get a silent set of these things if it kills me (let's hope not!). Maybe this is not doable, but I'd like to see... For some reason, it seems harder to get a really quiet set! 

Glad you liked the song. Music is very personal, but that never stops me from trying to put it out there. I like "whispering in your ear" vocals, whistful guitars and underneath it all bass. Next song, totally different:

Barbra Lynn, You'll Lose a Good Thing (sounds great in hi-def!)


Happy New Year all!


----------



## maxpudding

Happy new year!


----------



## 2359glenn

One thing about 6BL/BX7s is DO NOT USE USED ONES. Only NOS.
They were used as the vertical oscillator and vertical output tube in TVs
As the picture tubes got bigger and bigger they drove the hell of the amplifier section.
This was to get enough power to the deflection coil to bend the electron beam that far.
So most used ones are cooked .


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Here is an oddball 6J5, I have posted it before, but it is a good one.  French Visseaux 6J5G.  Very good sounding tube, up there with the best I own.  Hope they live a long life, doubt I will find another pair for the price I bought these.

   

Another option is the 6J5MG metal can version of this tube.  I have a pair, but one has gone bad unfortunately and I haven't gotten around to replacing it (or banging it against the table).


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is an oddball 6J5, I have posted it before, but it is a good one.  French Visseaux 6J5G.  Very good sounding tube, up there with the best I own.  Hope they live a long life, doubt I will find another pair for the price I bought these.
> 
> 
> 
> Another option is the 6J5MG metal can version of this tube.  I have a pair, but one has gone bad unfortunately and I haven't gotten around to replacing it (or banging it against the table).



Very pretty. What are the outputs you are using? They match. 

...The metal versions look like Coors-Lite cans.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> Very pretty. What are the outputs you are using? They match.
> 
> ...The metal versions look like Coors-Lite cans.



They are 1963 Western Electric 421A.  You are right!  A clear top pair.  They do look like Coors light cans oh my gosh, must have ripped them off


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 31, 2019)

2359glenn said:


> One thing about 6BL/BX7s is DO NOT USE USED ONES. Only NOS.
> They were used as the vertical oscillator and vertical output tube in TVs
> As the picture tubes got bigger and bigger they drove the hell of the amplifier section.
> This was to get enough power to the deflection coil to bend the electron beam that far.
> So most used ones are cooked .



Good luck finding NOS ones!

I have tons of used 6BX7's - all sound fine, must have been made and used when the screens were smaller 

Happy 2020 to all...!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

You can still get NOS 6BL7 & 6BX7s  Might have to buy singles.
I just bought a spare 6BL7 for the Cathode follower in my preamp made in Japan NOS that I will try tomorrow morning.

HAPPY NEW YEAR
Glenn


----------



## gibosi

One of the hallmarks of the GOTL is the almost countless number of possible combinations. I am currently running Tung-Sol 6BX7, Brimar 5U4G and Mullard EL42 and it sounds great to my ears. 

Happy New Year!

(And I have been wondering how these Twenties will compare to the Roaring Twenties of the last century.  )


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> And I have been wondering how these Twenties will compare to the Roaring Twenties of the last century.


 Much more bland and generic. Just my guess.

Happy new decade lads!


----------



## mordy

Does anybody know anything about these 6J5 tubes made by RFT, Berlin, DDR?

















The RFT labels were HF, WF and OSW.
And finally, did anybody try the Russian 6J5 tubes 6C2C/6S2S?


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> One of the hallmarks of the GOTL is the almost countless number of possible combinations. I am currently running Tung-Sol 6BX7, Brimar 5U4G and Mullard EL42 and it sounds great to my ears.
> 
> Happy New Year!
> 
> (And I have been wondering how these Twenties will compare to the Roaring Twenties of the last century.  )


The EL42 is a smaller version of the EL32 with a different base.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Dec 31, 2019)

mordy said:


> Does anybody know anything about these 6J5 tubes made by RFT, Berlin, DDR?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, I have a pair of these RFT 6J5 tubes, a triplet actually.  I have posted about them before, let me see...

Here we go, back in August:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1876#post-15102120
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1884#post-15107810

Oh and Happy New Year!!!


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> The EL42 is a smaller version of the EL32 with a different base.



True. And it has the the same pinout as the EL41 so the same adapter can be used for both.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> True. And it has the the same pinout as the EL41 so the same adapter can be used for both.


Very few tubes have this pinout: EL41/42 / 6CK5 / N150/151 /  CV3889/3990

PS: Ouch, stumbled across here *we ge* again with *high* prices who is selling a pair of GEC 6AS7G for $1890.00.....


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, I have a pair of these RFT 6J5 tubes, a triplet actually.  I have posted about them before, let me see...
> 
> Here we go, back in August:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1876#post-15102120
> ...


Hi LG,
Thanks for refreshing my memory - now I remember! What I DO remember from that post, and I have been able to verify it myself a number of times, is that a pair of triodes sound better compared to the same tube in dual triode format; i.e. 2x6J5 sounds better than one 6SN7 of the same tube.
Do you remember anything from your readings about the Russian 6J5GT equivalents?


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> One of the hallmarks of the GOTL is the almost countless number of possible combinations. I am currently running Tung-Sol 6BX7, Brimar 5U4G and Mullard EL42 and it sounds great to my ears.
> 
> Happy New Year!
> 
> (And I have been wondering how these Twenties will compare to the Roaring Twenties of the last century.  )



Interesting observation on the '20's g...

And interesting tube combo as well.

Cheers!


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> You can still get NOS 6BL7 & 6BX7s  Might have to buy singles.
> I just bought a spare 6BL7 for the Cathode follower in my preamp made in Japan NOS that I will try tomorrow morning.
> 
> HAPPY NEW YEAR
> Glenn



A Japanese NOS 6BL7!  Want to hear your impressions of it, Glenn!

Cheers!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> A Japanese NOS 6BL7!  Want to hear your impressions of it, Glenn!
> 
> Cheers!


You can find Japanese 6BX7 as well.


----------



## rosgr63

Happy New Year!


----------



## whirlwind

*Happy New Year*


----------



## chrisdrop

Happy new year all!

How about some output rolling QnA ... 

When choosing outputs, my amp (which is similar/ same-enough as several others out there) can handle 4 or 6 of 6B(LX)7s. Is it purely preference (in the sound) based? Is there any reason to prefer more or less for any other technical reason? 
Same story for 6080s. I know @mordy you like 4x 6080s (part of your "platform"), and recently @JazzVinyl also had 4x 6080s, but were _heating externally_. Given the amp can handle the sum of the amperes per tube (I believe my amp is ~13A max), why heat externally? 
There was also some dialogue back a while about running 4x _Bendix_ 6080s (they will be _hot_) and a suggestion of _at least using_ socket savers to "protect the amp". There was perhaps a suggestion that the whole enterprise was best avoided (even though they fit into the same sum-of-amps acceptability). Was this just a temperature issue? If so - is the goal to protect the amp itself from the raw heat? There were comments like "blow up the amp" that seemed worth understanding better!

Depending on the amplification factor, the volume will be in various ranges on the dial (i.e.; low like 7-9:00, or near 12:00, or > 12:00). Is there any reason to care about this aside from volume dial precision? I mostly care for output rolling presently, but I don't think the answer to this is limited to caring about output tubes. 
OK, that is enough amp-query for now!


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> Happy new year all!
> 
> How about some output rolling QnA ...
> 
> ...



You will get buy with four 6080s but a good idea to get socket savers to lift them off the chassis. But will be fine for awhile.
If getting socket savers get them for all the sockets to save them if you are rolling allot.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Happy new year all!
> 
> How about some output rolling QnA ...
> 
> ...


Hi cd,
Interesting that you are concentrating on output rolling. There is a huge debate about how much impact the output tubes have on  sound - 20%?, 50%? etc. I would avoid answering that question by saying that it is a question of synergy; for sure the output tubes play a very significant role re the sound. On the other hand, once I have found a combination I like, I mainly concentrate on driver tube rolling, but at times different drivers may need a change in output tubes to sound their best.
Re 4 or 6 6BL/X7: There are two factors involved: sound, and noise. The 6BLX7 tubes have a high amplification factor and in certain combinations the background noise and compatibility can be affected by using 4 or 6 tubes.
Re using 4x6080: To some it may sound like overkill since one pair supplies enough power. However, personally I have found that 4x6080 suits me better because it sounds better to me with a more filled out sound. I use a Bendix type graphite tube for slam and impact, and a RCA for warmth and mid bass. I think JV uses Sylvania/Mullard. These tubes definitely run hot. I also reduce the heat to the chassis by using socket savers which act as insulators. Than I use two small fans (3-4") to further lower the temperature. The amp should not go above 80C; with one fan it reaches around 45C and with two around 33C (some variations depending on ambient room temperature and tubes used).
Heat is the main enemy of electronics.
Re JV's use of external power I think it is an issue of having a quieter background - JV has to weigh in on this.
Re the volume, different tubes and tube combinations affect the volume. Recently i added a set of TFK EL11 to the pair of 6J5 drivers, and the volume went down a little. As far as I know, as long as the amp produces enough volume for what you need and there is no distortion, I don't think that it matters.
There is another debate whether a tube amp sounds better at high volume than at low volume, and some people try to adjust their sources so that the tube amp runs at high volume. Don't know the answer to this question. Personally, I use my GOTL mainly as a preamp, and by fiddling with the volume controls on my preamp and the GOTL I try to achieve a setting that produces the least background noise. Usually what works best for me is a volume setting around 9-10 0'clock on both the preamp and the GOTL.
I think that in the past Glenn was worried about running so many tubes at near the 13A capacity in the GOTL. However, he had told me that by adding external cooling you could go up to 14A. The most I have used is 12.4A and after extended use this seems perfectly safe using socket savers and fan cooling. 
Disclaimer: All the above are my personal opinions; I don't have the electronic knowledge to verify this scientifically - all is based on use and personal observations.


----------



## Monsterzero

So I bought a pair of metal base Sylvania 6J5 to replace the popping and noisy Sylvania VT135s(still need to solder iron treatment those). When they werent popping they sounded glorious....anyways found a NOS pair and rolled them in last night,and one lights up,but no sound. Having terrible luck with Sylvanias lately. 
Contacted the seller last night around 2am,and he responded within 5 minutes,on New Years eve no less and is sending me out a replacement tube. To be sure I found a source for the VT135s online for 4.50 a piece. Ordered those too.
In the interim in using a super NOS pair of Raytheon 6J5s. These are the cleanest old tubes Ive ever seen. Took them a few hours to begin to open up. Im not sure they will end up beating the Sylvania in SQ,but they sound pretty good. Def less bass than the Ken Rads. Now I need to find a good pair of GEC L63s,then in Feb im sending the Monster back to Glenn for surgery.


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> Happy new year all!
> 
> How about some output rolling QnA ...
> 
> ...



Happy New Year @chrisdrop !!

I heat 4x 6080 or 6AS7's externally....because it keeps a lot of heat out of the GOTL innards.  The external transformer gets quite warm when running 4x of these (I can also 6x of them, if I want) and all that heat is NOT under the GOTL deck.  Yes there is still some heat from the 6080's that transfers to the amp deck, even with socket savers, cause they are 'hot taters'.  But the innards of the GOTL are *much cooler* in this scenario of heating them, externally.  I am not mandating the practice for anyone else.  If you run 4x 6080's for a few hours using the Lundhal with socket savers...no problem.  But I tend to run the GOTL most of the day.  So I admire keeping that heat out of the innards.

One more reason...my amp physically buzzes when I run 4x 6080's or 2x 6AS7G/2x 6080.  It is coming from the Lundhal transformer.  I saw a youtube video where a guy fixes his buzzing transformer by re-gluing the iron plates together.  I could probably do that to make this one behave.  

But the External Transformer for heating powers cures this problem, and has the side benefit of much less heat being transferred the GOTL innards.

BTW...my amp run *WAY cooler* and *never buzzes* when running 6x 6BX/BL7's...*no need* for an external Transformer in this scenario, imho.


Cheers


----------



## chrisdrop

@Monsterzero - my *J5 experience has been great, but I still have a limited selection. As another relatively-newcomer to these tubes, here is my semi-informed 2p:

I still think the GEC 6J5Gs are my favourite all around. They are shoulder types and I have put pictures up before. They were on the expensive side, matched pair, via Billington. Whenever I am not rolling to experiment, I keep going back to these. I think @UsoppNoKami has a pair that have a similar shape, but a different print on them. They work really well w/ the Bendix 6080s and are currently running w/ 6BL7s nicely.
Does anyone know what/ if there any difference between GEC labelled L63 and that are labelled 6J5? 

Sylvania 12J5 VT135 / black base. These have been pretty steadily in the amp during the latter week of my Christmas holiday time. These are probably the best quality/ value for money. They were not expensive. 
I have a 1/2 dozen other pairs and I think they are strictly generally > the single valve alternatives, but in my limited experience, those are a step above the rest.


----------



## Monsterzero

chrisdrop said:


> @Monsterzero - my *J5 experience has been great, but I still have a limited selection. As another relatively-newcomer to these tubes, here is my semi-informed 2p:
> 
> I still think the GEC 6J5Gs are my favourite all around. They are shoulder types and I have put pictures up before. They were on the expensive side, matched pair, via Billington. Whenever I am not rolling to experiment, I keep going back to these. I think @UsoppNoKami has a pair that have a similar shape, but a different print on them. They work really well w/ the Bendix 6080s and are currently running w/ 6BL7s nicely.
> Does anyone know what/ if there any difference between GEC labelled L63 and that are labelled 6J5?
> ...


 Dropped a line to Billington for pricing. Not to be nosey,but whats a good price on the ST L63s?


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Hi cd,
> Interesting that you are concentrating on output rolling. There is a huge debate about how much impact the output tubes have on  sound - 20%?, 50%? etc. I would avoid answering that question by saying that it is a question of synergy; for sure the output tubes play a very significant role re the sound. On the other hand, once I have found a combination I like, I mainly concentrate on driver tube rolling, but at times different drivers may need a change in output tubes to sound their best.
> Re 4 or 6 6BL/X7: There are two factors involved: sound, and noise. The 6BLX7 tubes have a high amplification factor and in certain combinations the background noise and compatibility can be affected by using 4 or 6 tubes.
> Re using 4x6080: To some it may sound like overkill since one pair supplies enough power. However, personally I have found that 4x6080 suits me better because it sounds better to me with a more filled out sound. I use a Bendix type graphite tube for slam and impact, and a RCA for warmth and mid bass. I think JV uses Sylvania/Mullard. These tubes definitely run hot. I also reduce the heat to the chassis by using socket savers which act as insulators. Than I use two small fans (3-4") to further lower the temperature. The amp should not go above 80C; with one fan it reaches around 45C and with two around 33C (some variations depending on ambient room temperature and tubes used).
> ...



*>>concentrating on output rolling*

I have been really enjoying the 6j5 world and spent the past 2 months basically rolling them. 

Now rolling outputs a bit because I have largely been unable to change outputs due to my (now defunct) power/ hum issues. 

At some point, I will get the proper adapters for c3g sockets and move there!

*>>reduce the heat to the chassis by using socket savers
*
@Deyan is working on a set of socket savers for me, with my thanks in advance of course!

*>>two small fans (3-4") 
*
I was looking for some small, low noise fans recently. I haven't gotten any yet - but I am sure they will come soon enough. 

*>> Disclaimer .. *
If it all goes tits-up, I am coming to get ya! 

*>>I use a Bendix type graphite tube for slam and impact, and a RCA for warmth and mid bass. I think JV uses Sylvania/Mullard. 
*
I have been _really_ enjoying the Bendix as my main outputs. I didn't really like them _with_ _Brimar_ 6080s (which I think were fine on their own in 2x or 4x). I think the RCAs are not expensive, so I will perhaps grab a pair (or if I come across JV's pref'd). 

*>>a tube amp sounds better at high volume than at low volume, and some people try to adjust their sources so that the tube amp runs at high volume. *

That is interesting, although not clear why that is good. I could certainly adjust the line-out level from my source. Does it have something to do perhaps with being in the more linear range of the valve's amplification function? _(possible BS comment)_


----------



## chrisdrop

JazzVinyl said:


> Happy New Year @chrisdrop !!
> 
> I heat 4x 6080 or 6AS7's externally....because it keeps a lot of heat out of the GOTL innards.  The external transformer gets quite warm when running 4x of these (I can also 6x of them, if I want) and all that heat is NOT under the GOTL deck.  Yes there is still some heat from the 6080's that transfers to the amp deck, even with socket savers, cause they are 'hot taters'.  But the innards of the GOTL are *much cooler* in this scenario of heating them, externally.  I am not mandating the practice for anyone else.  If you run 4x 6080's for a few hours using the Lundhal with socket savers...no problem.  But I tend to run the GOTL most of the day.  So I admire keeping that heat out of the innards.
> 
> ...



Springy (or other isolation) feet help if your transformer buzzes physically to reduce noise generated to your tubes.

My amp case is 33C presently w/ 6x 6BL7s running for 1/2 the day. The valve base is 45C. My whole amp runs a lot cooler since I sorted my power/ noise/ transformer/ choke jiggle.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> *>>concentrating on output rolling*
> 
> I have been really enjoying the 6j5 world and spent the past 2 months basically rolling them.
> 
> ...


I scavenged my fans from obsolete PC fans and PC power supplies. The 12V wall warts (power supplies) are from old portable phone sets etc.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Dropped a line to Billington for pricing. Not to be nosey,but whats a good price on the ST L63s?



Hey D - for a NOS shouldered gray glass pair, $120 would be a good price, $150 would be an average price, $200 would be on the high side, IME.  I have four pairs of these tubes, so that is the sample size.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Dropped a line to Billington for pricing. Not to be nosey,but whats a good price on the ST L63s?


Martin Billington usually has them for 70 GBP each. It's where I've purchased most of mine from. Others have said you need to spend over 300 GBP to get them for that price, otherwise they will be more. Just go through the catalog - you'll get up to 300 GBP in no time


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey D - for a NOS shouldered gray glass pair, $120 would be a good price, $150 would be an average price, $200 would be on the high side, IME.  I have four pairs of these tubes, so that is the sample size.



I paid $150 for my pair at Langrex 
Don't think they have any right now.


----------



## Monsterzero

In preperation for my Monster's surgery,im going to do what LG did and sell off most of my sn7 tubes. If anyone in this thread needs some drop me a PM.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Happy New Year guys!

May the new year be filled with tube glows and glorious music!


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> Springy (or other isolation) feet help if your transformer buzzes physically to reduce noise generated to your tubes.
> 
> My amp case is 33C presently w/ 6x 6BL7s running for 1/2 the day. The valve base is 45C. My whole amp runs a lot cooler since I sorted my power/ noise/ transformer/ choke jiggle.



Absolutely no problem here either running 6x 6BX/BL7.  

Problem here only occurs when running 4x 6080 or 6AS7’s.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Monsterzero said:


> In preperation for my Monster's surgery,im going to do what LG did and sell off most of my sn7 tubes. If anyone in this thread needs some drop me a PM.


Best of luck with your surgery!!


----------



## Monsterzero

BunnyNamedCraig said:


> Best of luck with your surgery!!


Oh,im not getting surgery...my GOTL is. Glenn is doing the work so im sure it will turn out fine....But thanks for the concern!


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Happy New Year guys!
> 
> May the new year be filled with tube glows and glorious music!



Great pic...I am currently running the same set-up, just different EL34's !


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Great pic...I am currently running the same set-up, just different EL34's !



Hey Joe, thank you for recommending the EL34 tubes. You got great taste!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Monsterzero said:


> Oh,im not getting surgery...my GOTL is. Glenn is doing the work so im sure it will turn out fine....But thanks for the concern!


Ahhh it all makes sense now. You said “monsters surgery” as in what you call your amp. I thought you were speaking in the third person for some reason lol!


----------



## chrisdrop

I have a pair of nice EL11 tubes that came with my (gone on walkabout) Feliks Euforia. From @Zachik's handy-dandy compatibility sheet - I see that I can get Deyan to make an adapter.

Does anyone regularly use/ recommend them to make the adapter relevant? It looks like the adapter covers {EL11, EL12N, EL13} so I guess the same question extends to the others.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> I have a pair of nice EL11 tubes that came with my (gone on walkabout) Feliks Euforia. From @Zachik's handy-dandy compatibility sheet - I see that I can get Deyan to make an adapter.
> 
> Does anyone regularly use/ recommend them to make the adapter relevant? It looks like the adapter covers {EL11, EL12N, EL13} so I guess the same question extends to the others.


The same adapter works for EL3N and EL8 as well. I am using Deyan's adapters for a pair of EL11 tubes with good results, but sometimes a driver tube sounds better with the extra two tubes and sometimes it sounds better without - trial and error.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 2, 2020)

Got a nice PM from @GDuss and he wondered how ye olde Ken Rad would pair with the C3g’s.

Struck me as a great idea as the KR’s are very warm, polar opposite of the C3g’s.

Tried it here, and I love it!! Glenn...won’t be asking you to eliminate  my C3g sockets


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> Got a nice PM from @GDuss and he wondered how ye olde Ken Rad would pair with the C3g’s.
> 
> Struck me as a great idea as the KR’s are very warm, polar opposite of the C3g’s.
> 
> Tried it here, and I love it!! Glenn...won’t be asking you to eliminate  my C3g sockets



Who would have thought that Kentucky Radio and the German post would go well together


----------



## chrisdrop

JazzVinyl said:


> Got a nice PM from @GDuss and he wondered how ye olde Ken Rad would pair with the C3g’s.
> 
> Struck me as a great idea as the KR’s are very warm, polar opposite of the C3g’s.
> 
> Tried it here, and I love it!! Glenn...won’t be asking you to eliminate  my C3g sockets



Naked C3Gs ... Risque! 

FWIW, I (naively - really) googled "naked tubes". NSFW - _not_ recommended!


----------



## Xcalibur255

The naked C3gs might be the problem in and of itself.  Every time I've "decanned" them I regretted it.  It does something bad to the treble, makes it sound sterile, dry and shrill.


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> The naked C3gs might be the problem in and of itself.  Every time I've "decanned" them I regretted it.  It does something bad to the treble, makes it sound sterile, dry and shrill.




Plus the skirts help quiet these finicky tubes, when you get quiet ones they are wonderful to my ears...some seem to like them and some don't.
I always feel like I can really tell how the power tubes sound with these drivers, so transparent when quiet.  

They look cool undressed if you don't mind what could end up being some back round noise.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 3, 2020)

LOL on the NSFW @chrisdrop 

Have not noticed a detriment in SQ with the naked C3g's.  Like some of the metal tubes, the outer case is connected to ground and can aid as a shield against RF interference.  Fortunately I don't have a noisy (RF wise) environment, so no problems, here.

Will say I have had problems breaking the envelope on naked C3g's!!  The glass is tempered and is fragile, so that is another benefit of leaving the shields on.

Once off, you can't put them back on...so mine shall remain...as naked, as jaybirds.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 3, 2020)

So my amp building project has spider-webbed out into multiple projects, one of which I think might interest GOTL owners.

Before I actually start building this amp, makes sense that I should have the necessary test equipment, so I am actually working on assembling my test bench first.  Over a year ago, I was interested in building a test setup such that I could measure the distortion profiles of various tubes in my amplifiers.  An engineer on another forum recommended a DIY sound card interface, engineered by Pete Millett, that could be used with a run-of-the-mill sound card and some free software to get measurements down to -100dB or 0.001% THD, which is plenty low for tube amp measurements.  I sat on the idea and never pursued it.

Well now with a REAL reason to build this setup, I reached back out to that same gentleman for his advice, but the landscape has changed, there is a sexier DIY sound card interface out now, which I will be building 

It is created by an engineer named Jan Didden who runs the webpage Linear Audio.  The name of the device is the Autoranger, and it is a truly remarkable feat of engineering.  Essentially what it does is it takes an input signal, whether that be 4V from a headphone amplifier or 100V from a stereo power amplifier, and attenuates or increases the signal to a voltage that can be used by a sound card without frying it, either 0.4V or 1V.  The sound card with the necessary software can then be used to take measurements of the device under test (THD+N, frequency response, etc.).

The incredible aspect of the Autoranger is that its THD+N levels rival that of $20,000 Audio Precision analyzers!!!  Considering the total cost of the Autoranger is going to be around $400, that is just insane.  Now the measurements will be limited to the THD+N of the sound card I will be using, which will be nowhere near that of an Audio Precision setup, but again, plenty low for tube amps.  This measurement setup will be run off my laptop and the Autoranger can be powered by a 5V power bank, so it will have complete mains isolation.

Here is the Autoranger page: https://linearaudio.nl/la-autoranger

YouTube video demonstration:


ANYWAY, why is this relevant to the GOTL...building this test bench is the next step in my overarching "building amps" project, so of course I will be testing it on the GOTL when it is complete.  I'll be able to measure distortion profiles and THD+N measurements for any GOTL tube combination, so I think it would be cool to post those measurements here (with Glenn's blessing) and see how they correlate to GOTL owners' subjective listening impressions.

For example, is the GEC L63 lower distortion than the Sylvania 6J5GT?  Which one has a higher second harmonic distortion component?  Third harmonic?  How does the distortion of a 6x 6BX7GT power tube setup compare to a 2x 5998 setup?

I think it will be a lot of fun and I would be happy to take measurement requests when it is up and running, assuming I own the tubes.

Sorry for the wall of text, just excited


----------



## JazzVinyl

You know @L0rdGwyn - many say that those 2nd order tube distortions is why humans "think" tubes sound better than solid state!

Looking forward to the actual facts!


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> LOL on the NSFW @chrisdrop
> 
> Have not noticed a detriment in SQ with the naked C3g's.  Like some of the metal tubes, the outer case is connected to ground and can aid as a shield against RF interference.  Fortunately I don't have a noisy (RF wise) environment, so no problems, here.
> 
> ...




Yeah, you need to treat these tubes with tender loving care when removing...pulling straight up and not wiggling back and forth is a great idea.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Dropped a line to Billington for pricing. Not to be nosey,but whats a good price on the ST L63s?




I paid about $175 US dollars for this pair delivered....if patient I am sure you can save a bit.

 

Keenan gave me a heads up on these a while back.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I paid about $175 US dollars for this pair delivered....if patient I am sure you can save a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> Keenan gave me a heads up on these a while back.


Yeah Billington wants 180 British pounds for a pair. I will wait.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> So my amp building project has spider-webbed out into multiple projects, one of which I think might interest GOTL owners.
> 
> Before I actually start building this amp, makes sense that I should have the necessary test equipment, so I am actually working on assembling my test bench first.  Over a year ago, I was interested in building a test setup such that I could measure the distortion profiles of various tubes in my amplifiers.  An engineer on another forum recommended a DIY sound card interface, engineered by Pete Millett, that could be used with a run-of-the-mill sound card and some free software to get measurements down to -100dB or 0.001% THD, which is plenty low for tube amp measurements.  I sat on the idea and never pursued it.
> 
> ...



Very impressed with your thoroughness in approaching the building of your amp! 
Here is my question: Do you think that it is possible to predict through measurements which tube combination will sound the best?


----------



## attmci

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sound-science-of-dac.915665/


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> Got a nice PM from @GDuss and he wondered how ye olde Ken Rad would pair with the C3g’s.
> 
> Struck me as a great idea as the KR’s are very warm, polar opposite of the C3g’s.
> 
> Tried it here, and I love it!! Glenn...won’t be asking you to eliminate  my C3g sockets



Tonight is my 2nd night with the C3g's paired with a pair of 1940's metal RCA 6J5's, with 4x Tung Sol 6BX7's as power tubes.  I've been trying the combination with and without the C3g's.  So far, the results have been very positive.  I am a big fan of the RCA 6J5's alone, but adding the C3g's is like taking an image through a camera lens that is just slightly out of focus and bringing it into focus.  It doesn't change the overall tone of the RCA's, which is great, it just adds a bit of clarity to the picture.  I think it also adds a some speed to the RCA's.  And it doesn't go too far in the direction of enhanced clarity to be like the laser-cut image in the analogy from @mordy a few days ago.  I haven't tried the C3g's yet with anything that already has enough of it's own clarity (e.g. the Sylvania or Tung Sol 12J5GTs) and I can see where that might be too much.  But I can say that (for me and my chain) this combination works.

My prior experience with the C3g's (and I'm using a pair of Siemens tubes that do not have an embossed logo) was with nothing in the 6SN7 driver slot, only with either 6x GE 6BX7's or 2x TS 5998's (the latter combo I said a few days ago needed to be mellowed).  In either case, I wasn't a huge fan of what the C3g's were doing, maybe because I didn't have the right power tube combination with them.  I'm saying this because I'm glad @chrisdrop brought these up again as I have now found a great use for the C3g's .

Currently I'm listening to Amendola vs Blades album "Greatest Hits" which is an interesting album title given that it's their first album.  Whatever, the hits are great in any case.  Impressive what can be done with only drums and an organ.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 4, 2020)

mordy said:


> Very impressed with your thoroughness in approaching the building of your amp!
> Here is my question: Do you think that it is possible to predict through measurements which tube combination will sound the best?



I can't say mordy, I haven't had the tools to do these experiments in my own home, but generally it is of course believed that less distortion is better and minimizing distortion and noise is typically the aim of any amplifier design.  So perhaps the best sounding tube combinations can be predicted from the distortion measurements, but it may not tell the whole story.  As many of us have experienced, minimizing distortion does not always yield the most pleasing listening experience, so it will be interesting to see how the subjective and objective results compare.

Some time ago on the Bottlehead forum, a member had taken his Bottlehead Crack + Speedball to his place of work that had an Audio Precision Analyzer.  He did a series of measurements there and they showed that the Tung-Sol 5998 in the output position had significantly less distortion than the four or five 6080 tubes he had also measured, and for me at least, the audible difference between the 5998 and an average 6080 is quite large, so there was a correlation there with the measurements.

One measurement I think would be particularly interesting to take would be a comparison of the interchannel crosstalk of a 6SN7 and its equivalent 6J5.  In Morgan Jones' book _Valve Amplifiers_, he took a series of distortion measurements of several well-known preamp tubes.  The distortion levels for the 6SN7 and 6J5 were very similar, at least with the samples he used, with certain models of the 6SN7 even beating out the 6J5 (granted I am not sure the 6J5 tubes used necessarily representated the crème de la crème).  I am wondering if crosstalk between the two triodes of a 6SN7 is at least partially responsible for the smaller perceived soundstage.  The answer is undoubtedly more complicated than that, but it is a place to start!


----------



## mordy

Thanks for your reply - looking forward to see how your future measurements correlate with how it sounds.


----------



## chrisdrop (Jan 5, 2020)

2 for today:

When it comes to 6J5s - which ones do you guys find _warmer_? I find most of mine are very detailed and spacious but a bit on the less-warm side.
I have assembled a quiet, clean set of 4x 6BX7s running now (NOS as Glenn's advice). I have 2 more due to arrive tomorrow to make 6x. In conjunction with the 6J5s I have been using, I am wanting a bit more warmth. I think 2 more 6BX7s may put a tad more bottom in, but not a ton? For music with a lot of mid-focus, the setup is beautiful. I am trying to choose something with a bit more warmth - I feel a bit c3g'd!
I have ~6-8hrs on the 6BX7s, so perhaps they just need time +2 friends...
As @mordy would say, it is about the synergy between parts I am sure, and I'd like to find something to synergise w/ these outputs.

Tube dampers: I had one valve (TungSol 12SN7GT - crazy I know - single valve) that was a little bit buzzy. I put one of the cheap silicone tube dampers on it and it totally sorted any noise from the valve. Any positive/ negative feelings about dampers? I couldn't identify any 'badness' but thought I'd ask anyhow.
FYI - it certainly warmed the 6BX7s a bit IMO. *[EDIT: this is referring to the tube, not to the dampers, but the 12SN7GT itself]*

Supporting soundtrack for this post, after a bit of meandering, back to something electronic:


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> Tube dampers: I had one valve (TungSol 12SN7GT - crazy I know - single valve) that was a little bit buzzy. I put one of the cheap silicone tube dampers on it and it totally sorted any noise from the valve.


Chris - can you provide a link to those dampers? Are they cheap enough that you just leave it on the tube, or do you place it on the tube just before rolling in said tube?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

As the DIY expenses are adding up, I've decided to sell some more tubes from my collection.  They are 6N7 tubes (adapter required), USA shipping is $7, if anyone is interested, let me know.

National Union 6N7G - 102%/102% $30


 

National Union 6N7GT - 106%/110% $30

 

Tung-Sol 6N7G - 111%/112% $30

 

Fivre 6N7GT - 120%/116% $60

 

Visseaux 6N7GT - 103%/102% $30


----------



## chrisdrop

Zachik said:


> Chris - can you provide a link to those dampers? Are they cheap enough that you just leave it on the tube, or do you place it on the tube just before rolling in said tube?



These are the silicone rings I was referring to for this use case. There are many vendors that sell these cheap silicone rings for this purpose. You put them on and let them stay (or so it is said!) 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20x-Elec...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

FYI - these more expensive ones are the ones I have read the best things about: https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/tube-dampers


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> 2 for today:
> 
> When it comes to 6J5s - which ones do you guys find _warmer_? I find most of mine are very detailed and spacious but a bit on the less-warm side.
> I have assembled a quiet, clean set of 4x 6BX7s running now (NOS as Glenn's advice). I have 2 more due to arrive tomorrow to make 6x. In conjunction with the 6J5s I have been using, I am wanting a bit more warmth. I think 2 more 6BX7s may put a tad more bottom in, but not a ton? For music with a lot of mid-focus, the setup is beautiful. I am trying to choose something with a bit more warmth - I feel a bit c3g'd!
> ...



Hi cd,
Everybody has different taste and different equipment, and in my system I found the 6BX7 too hard hitting and cold. Instead I am using two pairs of 6080 tubes - one of them is a RCA which is a warm sounding tube. The second 6080 I use is a Bendix type graphite tube, but most likely a pair of Sylvania 6080 will do fine as well. The RCA and SYL tubes are quite inexpensive and if you shop carefully should be less than $20/pair incl shipping.
Silicone dampers often work for buzzing and humming. I stay away from audiophile offerings - if you could find the right diameter hi temp silicone ring in an automotive or hardware store the cost would be very low.
However, a roll of high temperature self-fusing silicone tape for a couple of dollars will last for several dozen tubes. You just stretch a band around the tube and press it together - it glues together instantly (and it can be removed easily without any residue). People in the know claim that it works better than the rings - covers a larger area.
Another benefit is that your tube now looks like a TS BGRP tube lol......
Here is a picture of a tall tubular Telefunken EL11 tube that I am using now - put on two silicone bands on it and it is quiet now.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Hi cd,
> Everybody has different taste and different equipment, and in my system I found the 6BX7 too hard hitting and cold. Instead I am using two pairs of 6080 tubes - one of them is a RCA which is a warm sounding tube. The second 6080 I use is a Bendix type graphite tube, but most likely a pair of Sylvania 6080 will do fine as well. The RCA and SYL tubes are quite inexpensive and if you shop carefully should be less than $20/pair incl shipping.
> Silicone dampers often work for buzzing and humming. I stay away from audiophile offerings - if you could find the right diameter hi temp silicone ring in an automotive or hardware store the cost would be very low.
> However, a roll of high temperature self-fusing silicone tape for a couple of dollars will last for several dozen tubes. You just stretch a band around the tube and press it together - it glues together instantly (and it can be removed easily without any residue). People in the know claim that it works better than the rings - covers a larger area.
> ...



I tried the silicone tape trick based on your suggestion. It works and it’s cheap.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Also, before I put them on eBay, these power tubes are up for grabs, Cetron 6528A.  Don't have the parameters to test, these but they are NOS and function perfectly on the GOTL (listening to them right now in fact ).

$60 + $10 shipping in the USA.


----------



## chrisdrop

Looks like some silicone tape in my future. Very helpful, as always.

@mordy - regarding your RCA 6080s, there was some discussion on 6J5 RCAs older logo vs newer logo (beach-ball logo or more modern one). Do you have modern logo RCA 6080s or older logo?

Langrex (fast/ convenient in London) has newer logo RCAs for 10GBP each. https://www.langrex.co.uk/?s=6080&post_type=product


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> When it comes to 6J5s - which ones do you guys find _warmer_? I find most of mine are very detailed and spacious but a bit on the less-warm side.



All of the RCA 6C5/6J5 tubes I have (all with the meatball logo) I would consider warm.  They have a great tone and are nicely euphonic (I don't consider them syrupy though), they have nice stage depth but the width is not as expansive as other *J5 tubes.  I also have some Ken Rad 12J5GT's (VT-135) from 1943 that I think are warm tubes.  They have a bit better low end than the RCA's (which have nice low end as well) but I don't find them tonally as pleasing as the RCA's.  This group of tubes I think will benefit from the C3g combo.



chrisdrop said:


> I feel a bit c3g'd!



I think you just need to get meatball'd


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Looks like some silicone tape in my future. Very helpful, as always.
> 
> @mordy - regarding your RCA 6080s, there was some discussion on 6J5 RCAs older logo vs newer logo (beach-ball logo or more modern one). Do you have modern logo RCA 6080s or older logo?
> 
> Langrex (fast/ convenient in London) has newer logo RCAs for 10GBP each. https://www.langrex.co.uk/?s=6080&post_type=product


I don't think it makes such a difference older or newer, but i only have the older ones. You may also want to consider the Sylvania/Philips 6080 - whatever is less expensive.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> All of the RCA 6C5/6J5 tubes I have (all with the meatball logo) I would consider warm.  They have a great tone and are nicely euphonic (I don't consider them syrupy though), they have nice stage depth but the width is not as expansive as other *J5 tubes.  I also have some Ken Rad 12J5GT's (VT-135) from 1943 that I think are warm tubes.  They have a bit better low end than the RCA's (which have nice low end as well) but I don't find them tonally as pleasing as the RCA's.  This group of tubes I think will benefit from the C3g combo.
> 
> Hi GDuss,
> Your impressions mirror mine. The 6J5 has a beautiful tone, the K-R house sound is strong bass, and the Sylvania 12J5GT that I have has a wide sound stage (I don't have the K-R 12J5GT, but I have RCA and National Union in addition to the Sylvanias).
> ...


----------



## Monsterzero

I had been running the KR VT-94s for several months straight as I felt the bass was phenomenal,but oddly when I tried the Sylvanias I wasnt missing much,if any bass from the KRs,and the staging is out of this world! Not only is it wider but the the three-D-ness is crazy good as well. Unfortunately both of my sets Slyvania have issues. I have a new set of VT 135s supposedly coming in,but havent received a shipping email yet,and on my 6 volt version one is silent,so the seller is sending me another.

On that note,has anyone ordered from nosvacuumtubes.net before? they have 6/12j5s for cheap,but as I said they havent sent me a shipping email yet,and its been a week since I ordered.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I had been running the KR VT-94s for several months straight as I felt the bass was phenomenal,but oddly when I tried the Sylvanias I wasnt missing much,if any bass from the KRs,and the staging is out of this world! Not only is it wider but the the three-D-ness is crazy good as well. Unfortunately both of my sets Slyvania have issues. I have a new set of VT 135s supposedly coming in,but havent received a shipping email yet,and on my 6 volt version one is silent,so the seller is sending me another.
> 
> On that note,has anyone ordered from nosvacuumtubes.net before? they have 6/12j5s for cheap,but as I said they havent sent me a shipping email yet,and its been a week since I ordered.


Could not find much information. Somebody on the Woo22 forum complained that he spent $400 on a pair of 5998 tubes and got two different ones, although they sounded good.
In their return policy they state that if you order tubes that cost under $10 they reserve the right to substitute with something else similar.
Since they list a phone number maybe call them up to ask what happened to your order.


----------



## Monsterzero

Tried calling them and it goes straight to a recording with no option to leave a message. Not very encouraging.


----------



## Monsterzero

Monsterzero said:


> I had been running the KR VT-94s for several months straight as I felt the bass was phenomenal,but oddly when I tried the Sylvanias I wasnt missing much,if any bass from the KRs,and the staging is out of this world! Not only is it wider but the the three-D-ness is crazy good as well. Unfortunately both of my sets Slyvania have issues. I have a new set of VT 135s supposedly coming in,but havent received a shipping email yet,and on my 6 volt version one is silent,so the seller is sending me another.
> 
> On that note,has anyone ordered from nosvacuumtubes.net before? they have 6/12j5s for cheap,but as I said they havent sent me a shipping email yet,and its been a week since I ordered.





mordy said:


> Could not find much information. Somebody on the Woo22 forum complained that he spent $400 on a pair of 5998 tubes and got two different ones, although they sounded good.
> In their return policy they state that if you order tubes that cost under $10 they reserve the right to substitute with something else similar.
> Since they list a phone number maybe call them up to ask what happened to your order.


Finally heard back from the guy who runs nosvacuumtubes.net
He doesnt even have the tubes advertised. Offered me something entirely different(really) and when I declined he said he will refund my cash,which hasnt happened yet.
I would suggest avoiding this site. He never reached out to me to inform me that the tubes werent available,and who knows if I will get my refund or not. Granted it was only twenty bucks,but its the principle of it.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Jan 6, 2020)

JazzVinyl said:


> You know @L0rdGwyn - many say that those 2nd order tube distortions is why humans "think" tubes sound better than solid state!
> 
> Looking forward to the actual facts!


Nelson Pass has been pushing this line for a while now.  Some of his designs deliberately have more 2nd order distortion because they consistently perform better in listening tests that way.  One of the key reasons why different operating points for tubes sound different is because it changes how much 2nd and 3rd order distortion is present as well.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Tried calling them and it goes straight to a recording with no option to leave a message. Not very encouraging.





Monsterzero said:


> Finally heard back from the guy who runs nosvacuumtubes.net
> He doesnt even have the tubes advertised. Offered me something entirely different(really) and when I declined he said he will refund my cash,which hasnt happened yet.
> I would suggest avoiding this site. He never reached out to me to inform me that the tubes werent available,and who knows if I will get my refund or not. Granted it was only twenty bucks,but its the principle of it.


Hi M0,
How did you pay? If you used a credit card or PayPal your chances of getting back your money are very good.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jan 6, 2020)

Hi guys, for some reason I'm still not getting notifications from this thread. Meanwhile the rest of the hi-fi community is also starting to glow about the potential of the HEDDphone's new VVT AMT transducer technology with Jude just posting his measurements and its' being on the verge of public release, and I'm getting closer to making the final payment on my OTC SET amp which is largely designed around it.

Has anyone else received or is in line for their SET amps from Glenn?


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> All of the RCA 6C5/6J5 tubes I have (all with the meatball logo) I would consider warm.  They have a great tone and are nicely euphonic (I don't consider them syrupy though), they have nice stage depth but the width is not as expansive as other *J5 tubes.  I also have some Ken Rad 12J5GT's (VT-135) from 1943 that I think are warm tubes.  They have a bit better low end than the RCA's (which have nice low end as well) but I don't find them tonally as pleasing as the RCA's.  This group of tubes I think will benefit from the C3g combo.



Agree the RCA 6J5's and RCA 6C5's are warm sounding.  And @chrisdrop - the 6BL7's are warmer then BX7's...might want to give those a go.


----------



## JazzVinyl

My NOS 1940's Raytheon 12J5's also pair very well with the C3g's...
2x 6H13C and 2x Mullard 6080's for powers'...ummm ummm good!


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Hi guys, for some reason I'm still not getting notifications from this thread. Meanwhile the rest of the hi-fi community is also starting to glow about the potential of the HEDDphone's new VVT AMT transducer technology with Jude just posting his measurements and its' being on the verge of public release, and I'm getting closer to making the final payment on my OTC SET amp which is largely designed around it.
> 
> Has anyone else received or is in line for their SET amps from Glenn?



I am not getting notifications ether 
Shipped a amp today
And building Zachi's amp now.


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> My NOS 1940's Raytheon 12J5's also pair very well with the C3g's...
> 2x 6H13C and 2x Mullard 6080's for powers'...ummm ummm good!



I got C3g'd last night.  Tried them with a pair of TS 12J5GT's (the same ones you have, from 1944) and 4x TS 6BX7's.  Amazingly detailed, spacious, and clear.  And way too much of each of those descriptors.

Now it's on to other *J5 drivers with the C3g's, likely the KR 12J5GT's tonight.


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## GDuss

Monsterzero said:


> Finally heard back from the guy who runs nosvacuumtubes.net
> He doesnt even have the tubes advertised. Offered me something entirely different(really) and when I declined he said he will refund my cash,which hasnt happened yet.
> I would suggest avoiding this site. He never reached out to me to inform me that the tubes werent available,and who knows if I will get my refund or not. Granted it was only twenty bucks,but its the principle of it.



That sucks.  Hopefully this works out.  It's not just the principle of it, we're talking about *J5 tubes.  You could easily use that $20 for a pair of tubes somewhere else.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> I got C3g'd last night.  Tried them with a pair of TS 12J5GT's (the same ones you have, from 1944) and 4x TS 6BX7's.  Amazingly detailed, spacious, and clear.  And way too much of each of those descriptors.
> 
> Now it's on to other *J5 drivers with the C3g's, likely the KR 12J5GT's tonight.



Was doing the Tung Sol's earlier this evening.  Liked all....but a bit too much treble?  Hence the change to the Raytheons'...which I like way better with C3g than solo


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


>



Lots of naked tubes there, only some of which were born that way


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## JazzVinyl

Keiko Matsui....Japanese keyboardist...wowzers via this tube compliment!



Talk about hearing stuff you never knew was in there...!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

DecentLevi said:


> Hi guys, for some reason I'm still not getting notifications from this thread. Meanwhile the rest of the hi-fi community is also starting to glow about the potential of the HEDDphone's new VVT AMT transducer technology with Jude just posting his measurements and its' being on the verge of public release, and I'm getting closer to making the final payment on my OTC SET amp which is largely designed around it.
> 
> Has anyone else received or is in line for their SET amps from Glenn?





2359glenn said:


> I am not getting notifications ether
> Shipped a amp today
> And building Zachi's amp now.



Try unsubscribing and resubscribing, that seemed to do the trick for me.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 7, 2020)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Nelson Pass has been pushing this line for a while now.  Some of his designs deliberately have more 2nd order distortion because they consistently perform better in listening tests that way.  One of the key reasons why different operating points for tubes sound different is because it changes how much 2nd and 3rd order distortion is present as well.



You took the words right out of my mouth, I very nearly quoted Nelson Pass in a recent post.  I recall an interview where he described how Pass Labs minimizes distortion in their products, but they attempt to keep whatever distortion is left as second harmonic due to it being more subjectively pleasing.

A few years ago, Bob Katz wrote an interesting article on Innerfidelity where he built a second harmonic distortion generating circuit, such that he could finely tailor the amount of second harmonic injected into his system and do subjective comparisions.  The results are very interesting, it is a good read:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-25-adventures-distortion

I have tried to reason with hardcore objectivist audiophiles on the merits of second harmonic distortion and tube audio, it never ends well.  My sources have been described as "half-baked opinions" among other things, but I think those guys Bob Katz and Nelson Pass know a thing or two.


----------



## DecentLevi

2359glenn said:


> I am not getting notifications ether
> Shipped a amp today
> And building Zachi's amp now.


Oh, which username is Zachi, or is that his name here? And is he getting a SET amp? I'm interested to finally read any more impressions on one of yours.

Also would you mind to mention how @carlman14 is lookin' in the queue? I was hoping his OTC SET amp may be ready for my Seattle meet the last Saturday of the month.


----------



## heliosphann

I'm back! Barely survived our peak season. Absolutely brutal this year.

What'd I miss?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> I'm back! Barely survived our peak season. Absolutely brutal this year.
> 
> What'd I miss?



Let me sum it up for you.....

Tubes.


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> Let me sum it up for you.....
> 
> Tubes.



Nooooooooo?!?


----------



## carlman14

DecentLevi said:


> Oh, which username is Zachi, or is that his name here? And is he getting a SET amp? I'm interested to finally read any more impressions on one of yours.
> 
> Also would you mind to mention how @carlman14 is lookin' in the queue? I was hoping his OTC SET amp may be ready for my Seattle meet the last Saturday of the month.



Just FYI I am getting a GOTL from Glenn, not an OTC SET amp. Glenn mentioned that he has a couple more amps to build, then mine. I don't know how fast he cranks these out, but I'm assuming that mine will not be ready in time for your meet.


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> Was doing the Tung Sol's earlier this evening. Liked all....but a bit too much treble?



The treble was a bit much, but also vocals were too prominent.  The stage was expansive, but it's like the singers are pushed right up on you.

The Ken Rad 12J5GT's are much better with the C3g's.  I know @Monsterzero mentioned that going from KR's to the Sylvania's didn't give up much bass for him, but it's been some time since I put in KR tubes (with Sylvania's, RCA's, and Tung Sol's in the meantime).   This KR bass is nice.  Something about these tubes just makes you want to pay attention to the bass and just follow along with it.  

Funny how different tubes make you want to focus on different aspects of the music.  Then some tubes just put it all together perfectly and you enjoy it all as a whole picture.


----------



## exdmd

DecentLevi said:


> Hi guys, for some reason I'm still not getting notifications from this thread. Meanwhile the rest of the hi-fi community is also starting to glow about the potential of the HEDDphone's new VVT AMT transducer technology with Jude just posting his measurements and its' being on the verge of public release, and I'm getting closer to making the final payment on my OTC SET amp which is largely designed around it.
> 
> Has anyone else received or is in line for their SET amps from Glenn?



@2359glenn makes an output transformer coupled SET amp with impedance low enough to drive the 42 Ohm HEDDphones?


----------



## DecentLevi (Jan 7, 2020)

exdmd said:


> @2359glenn makes an output transformer coupled SET amp with impedance low enough to drive the 42 Ohm HEDDphones?


Yup he's making me a custom amp with 32 ohms (and 8 ohm switch for speakers) which should be more than enough for the 42 ohm headphones, and I was told the number should be lower than your headphone impefance needs, and with mine I will be able to roll either 2 or 4 output tubes which should also increase the power as needed.... Let @2359glenn fill you in better than I can on the specs

PS - here is more on the specs of the HEDDphone so Glenn can confirm whether your amp is perfectly suitable to drive it:
Impedance of 42 ohms
Sensitivity 87 dB/1mW


----------



## exdmd

DecentLevi said:


> Yup he's making me a custom amp with 32 ohms (and 8 ohm switch for speakers) which should be more than enough for the 42 ohm headphones, and I was told the number should be lower than your headphone impefance needs, and with mine I will be able to roll either 2 or 4 output tubes which should also increase the power as needed.... Let @2359glenn fill you in better than I can on the specs
> 
> PS - here is more on the specs of the HEDDphone so Glenn can confirm whether your amp is perfectly suitable to drive it:
> Impedance of 42 ohms
> Sensitivity 87 dB/1mW



Very cool! My Kenzie has a 32 Ohm tap but I thought the rule of 8 applied so output impedance for 42 Ohm phones should be down around 5 Ohms. At least you have 8 Ohms available look forward to your listening impressions.


----------



## Zachik

DecentLevi said:


> Oh, which username is Zachi, or is that his name here?


That would be me!!


----------



## Silent One

JazzVinyl said:


> Keiko Matsui....Japanese keyboardist...wowzers via this tube compliment!
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about hearing stuff you never knew was in there...!!




Keiko...Matsui?  She.  Is.  Special. Over the years I’ve had a few of her CDs that never made back into my home (friends!!!). I’ll admit to making exceptions to former roommies. But my long-time reserved music & books policy is enforced - you can enjoy here and it stays here. Currently have under Keiko:

Doll
Dream Walk
Full Moon And The Shrine
Moyo
No Borders
The Ring
Sapphire
Yamaha R&D Session III

If you do not have or have not heard the Yamaha studio recording on vinyl, it is really nice (1981 - Los Angeles). Before marrying Mr.Matsui, Keiko Doi was a 19 year old wonder out of Yamaha Univ working with Jazz greats in LA. On this session she’s giggin’ with Nathan East, Steve Foreman, Yayoi Hirabe & Vince Colaiuta.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

exdmd said:


> @2359glenn makes an output transformer coupled SET amp with impedance low enough to drive the 42 Ohm HEDDphones?



Glenn uses Lundahl speaker OPTs in his amps.  So a 32ohm or 8ohm tap doesn't necessarily reflect the output impedance of the amp, that is just the load the transformer is expecting to see, the output impedance will be lower.  You have to take into account the plate resistance of the output tube as well as the transformer specifications (primary and secondary winding resistance), whereas in the Kenzie, they use custom wound headphone output transformers, which likely have a smaller turns ratio than a speaker OPT and results in a higher output impedance.

So the 32ohm tap of @DecentLevi 's amp will have an output impedance of less than 32 ohms.  I don't know what tubes he is using, but here is an example.

Take the KT66 as a strapped triode (which I think is on the menu), plate resistance is roughly 1300ohm.  Using the Lundahl LL1623 output transformer wired for a 5.6k primary into a 32ohm load, its primary winding DC resistance is 164ohm.  So in series with the plate resistance, that is 1464ohm on the primary side (the side the output tube sees).  The secondary DC resistance of the LL1623 is 0.4ohm.  Wired for 5.6k into 32ohms, it has an impedance transformation ratio of 175:1.  So with 1464ohm on the primary, the reflected secondary resistance will be 1464/175 = 8.4ohm.  Add in the 0.4ohm resistance of the secondary, you get 8.8ohm.  If you want you can also add on the resistance of the headphone cable too.

So, as a rough example, into a 32ohm headphone, you would be getting a 8.8ohm output impedance and a damping factor of 3.6.  With a 45ohm load, a damping factor of 5.11.

Doing the same thing for a 5.6k into 8ohm tap would give an output impedance of 2.5ohm.  So a 45ohm load connected to the 8ohm tap would give a damping factor of 18.


----------



## maxpudding

L0rdGwyn said:


> Try unsubscribing and resubscribing, that seemed to do the trick for me.



In my case I would try to not exit the forum or close the tab while going through all the posts, because if I did, I won't be getting any notifications either.

So, I would try to read until the end of the thread before closing the tab, or go to the end of the thread to start the notifications again

That seems to be working for me.


----------



## cdanguyen08

It's almost February! 6 months went by quicker than I thought lol


----------



## Monsterzero

Sometimes I miss emails or whatever on posts to various threads I follow. I just click on the subscribed threads tab and it will show me what ive missed.


----------



## Xcalibur255

This is how I've always checked the forums.  I have never used the alerts.  The subscribed threads list will show you anything you participate in that has new postings since you last logged on.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Just a little GOTL eye candy, here is an all Fivre setup, 6J5GT and a sextet of 6BX7GT, oh that smooth Fivre sound


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 9, 2020)

Some more choice tubes for your consideration.

Fivre 6L6G 1942 - I am selling these tubes at a tremendous loss, purchased hastily and design changes mean they will not be usable in the amplifier I am building.  I had suspected they would work very well as power tubes in EL3N amps, I have confirmed this with Glenn, they will be at a good operating point in the GEL3N for example.  They are supposed to be excellent, test over 120% emission.  $200 +$7 shipping.



Triplet of French Neotron 6L6 foil getter.  For the same reasons as above, I am selling these tubes.  Of note, all three of these tubes have a measurable heater to cathode leakage, so it is inherent to their build, meaning some 60Hz AC hum could be audible.  However, because Glenn uses DC on the filaments of the GEL3N, I don't anticipate it being an issue.  If it was for any reason, I would of course take them back, so low risk.  Because of this, I am selling all three tubes for the price of one.  $60 + $7 shipping.



Lastly, I have a single GEC/Marconi L63 tube for sale.  Unfortunately, the filament burned out on its twin (possibly my fault).  If you are trying to get a pair of these on a budget, you will be halfway there, tests over 120% emission.  $50 even, I will cover shipping for this lil guy.


----------



## leftside

Great prices! Those should be snapped up. As a source of reference, I purchased 2 of those Neotron tubes for more than LordGywn is selling 3.


----------



## Velozity

JazzVinyl said:


> Keiko Matsui....Japanese keyboardist...wowzers via this tube compliment!
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about hearing stuff you never knew was in there...!!






I have 11 of her albums.  I’ve been a fan since the mid-90s.  For me it’s a toss up between her and Bob James as my favorite jazz pianist of all time with Joe Sample and Ramsey Lewis tied for a very close second.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Some fun with 6J5G and EL11, GEC6080 and WE422A. Sounds great with HD6xx, will try Verite later when my boy goes to bed


----------



## mordy

I am running something similar with 2x6J5, 2xEL11 and 6080's but different tubes. What is your impression of what the EL11 adds to the sound?


----------



## chrisdrop

As per suggestions from @mordy et al, I have added 2x RCA 6080s to 2x Bendix 6080s and I like the "Mordy's output platform" so far. 

I had to get 2 _pairs_ of Bendix 6080s to get a silent 2. Not an inexpensive undertaking! I had one pair where 1 was silent and 1 was a bit noisy, but sort of usable. I bought another matched tested pair and - same story! Thankfully the good 2 seem to be friendly with one another. They are fine together. When L/ R rotating I can't hear any discernible difference. I am working some self-fusing silicone tape on the other 2 Bendix to see if I can get them silent. Thanks again Mordy for your suggestions and guidance. It is appreciated.


----------



## mordy (Jan 9, 2020)

Thanks for your kind words.
Re the noisy Bendix tubes I assume that you cleaned off the pins etc. The tape may help for humming and buzzing but not for crackling and popping sounds where a heat treatment of the pins may help.
Re running 4x6080 it is important that the amp runs cool with good ventilation or a fan.


----------



## mordy

I have been following several tube amp forums now for a long while. It appears to me that a lot of people (but not all) are constantly striving to get better and better amps, tubes and ancillary equipment. 
I am dreaming too.....
I want my next amp to have big bling meters...

And it has to be green.

Maybe this will do...




Nah, too hard to find these WWII jerry cans.....
Maybe this?




Oops - I forgot the meters....These are made by Yamamoto.....







Too small? 




Maybe too big?
How about this?




Big, bold, powerful.....design inspiration?




Well.....I just woke up.

Forget it.

I mean, I am very happy with the GOTL! 
Why do I need another amp?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

mordy said:


> I am running something similar with 2x6J5, 2xEL11 and 6080's but different tubes. What is your impression of what the EL11 adds to the sound?



Didn't really pay attention to the difference TBH.. added them on a whim when I decided to fire up the GOTL, they didn't mess up the sound running in combo with the GEC 6J5G haha. 

Took out the GEC6080 today, running WE421A now. HD6xx and Verite are loving this combination, what a dynamic sound.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Velozity said:


> I have 11 of her albums.  I’ve been a fan since the mid-90s.  For me it’s a toss up between her and Bob James as my favorite jazz pianist of all time with Joe Sample and Ramsey Lewis tied for a very close second.



Very nice!  There are SO MANY super accomplished jazz pianists!  I loved Larry WIllis (who passed away Sept of 2019).  

*List of jazz pianists*:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_jazz_pianists

We live in an amazing time!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


>



OMG!  I love this one, Mordy!  Sign me up!!


----------



## Monsterzero

RIP Neil Peart. Damn this one hurts.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> RIP Neil Peart. Damn this one hurts.



Just saw that, very sad, will be jamming to some Rush tonight, R.I.P.


----------



## leftside (Jan 10, 2020)

Mullard for the French market (obtained from a French seller). Didn't know about these tubes until now. Looks exactly the same as another Mullard 6C5G I have. Shame the print isn't a little better. Sound great though.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_hersteller_detail.cfm?company_id=18905


----------



## DecentLevi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glenn uses Lundahl speaker OPTs in his amps.  So a 32ohm or 8ohm tap doesn't necessarily reflect the output impedance of the amp, that is just the load the transformer is expecting to see, the output impedance will be lower.  You have to take into account the plate resistance of the output tube as well as the transformer specifications (primary and secondary winding resistance), whereas in the Kenzie, they use custom wound headphone output transformers, which likely have a smaller turns ratio than a speaker OPT and results in a higher output impedance.
> 
> So the 32ohm tap of @DecentLevi 's amp will have an output impedance of less than 32 ohms.  I don't know what tubes he is using, but here is an example.
> 
> ...



Thanks much for your insight LG! This should be very helpful for me and @exdmd who has a 32 ohm amp (albeit different).

So basically you're saying that the actual output load of my Glenn SET amp could range from about 9 - 32 ohms depending on tubes used, which should pair well with a headphone with these specs, right? 
Impedance of 42 ohms
Sensitivity 87 dB/1mW

And since mine will allow rolling either 2 or 4 output tubes I can experiment with which gives better current / watts or synergizes better accordingly. I heard elsewhere that the output impedance of your amp should be about 1/10th of your headphones, to avoid frequency response shifts where the headphones's impedance is variable, however the HEDDPHone One's transducer technology is AMT implementation, which is more like a planar driver in terms of being largely impedance invariant with respect to frequency, so that should not be an issue.

@2359glenn what's your take on this, and my upcoming SET amps' pairing with the above headphone? I don't doubt it can be driven well with all its' options, but it would be interesting to know.
Also would you mind to mention about what kind of watts it outputs? For example 2 watts into 32 ohms, 1 watt into 300 ohms, etc.? I'm sure this will vary a lot depending on tubes used, but an average or guesstemate is cool.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 10, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks much for your insight LG! This should be very helpful for me and @exdmd who has a 32 ohm amp (albeit different).
> 
> So basically you're saying that the actual output load of my Glenn SET amp could range from about 9 - 32 ohms depending on tubes used, which should pair well with a headphone with these specs, right?
> Impedance of 42 ohms
> ...



Yes, in general and without addressing some minutiae (which I am still learning myself), the output impedance will largely depend on the plate resistance of the output tubes, the DC resistance of the primary winding (tube side) and secondary winding (headphone side) of the output transformer, and the transformer turns ratio, which tells you how the impedance will be stepped down across the transformer.

If your amp is using two output tubes in parallel, the contribution of the plate resistance to the output impedance will be cut in half, and since it is a much larger contribution than the primary and secondary winding DC resistance, the total output impedance will be nearly halved.

On many headphone amps, like the Kenzie, they aren't using speaker output transformers, so they just tell you exactly what the output impedance is on that jack based on the custom transformers they are using in the build.

Basically, on speaker output transformers, the various taps (8ohm, 16ohm, etc.) do not reflect the output impedance, that is the impedance of the device to be connected.  On many headphone amps, the builder tells you what the output impedance will be exactly on each jack.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Also, the sound card for my test bench will arrive tomorrow, so I should be able to take some GOTL measurements


----------



## DecentLevi (Jan 11, 2020)

mordy said:


> I want my next amp to have big bling meters...
> And it has to be green.
> Maybe this will do...


Or how about these 'shocking' amps


----------



## chrisdrop

Monsterzero said:


> RIP Neil Peart. Damn this one hurts.



Rush is the band I have seen _live_ most of any band (although a long time ago). Tough one.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> RIP Neil Peart. Damn this one hurts.



Yeah, what a legend, and those drum sets.
RIP Neil


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks much for your insight LG! This should be very helpful for me and @exdmd who has a 32 ohm amp (albeit different).
> 
> So basically you're saying that the actual output load of my Glenn SET amp could range from about 9 - 32 ohms depending on tubes used, which should pair well with a headphone with these specs, right?
> Impedance of 42 ohms
> ...



With these output transformers it is more about the impedance reflected on the tubes. So if a transformer is wired for say 8 ohms and the primary will reflect 3.5K ohms on the tube.
If you hook 16 ohm phones to the transformer the tubes will see 7K.
This is good the higher the impedance on the plate of the tube the lower the distortion. But this is at a loss in power.
Low distortion is more important then power output in a headphone amp. 1 or 2 watts is more then enough to run most any headphone to ear bleeding levels.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 11, 2020)

I have my first quality measurement of the GOTL.  Since they are @2359glenn 's favorite tubes, I measured the GOTL using the GEC L63 as inputs, GEC 6AS7G as outputs.

This is a 1kHz FFT at 1.1VRMS signal output into 300ohms (using my brand spanking new dummy load ), left channel.



Distortion is almost entirely second harmonic (as expected), THD+N 0.16%.

I did the exact same measurement on my laptop to see if mains isolation would have an impact, it did not, the results were almost identical.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have my first quality measurement of the GOTL.  Since they are @2359glenn 's favorite tubes, I measured the GOTL using the GEC L63 as inputs, GEC 6AS7G as outputs.
> 
> This is a 1kHz FFT at 1.1VRMS signal output into 300ohms (using my brand spanking new dummy load ).
> 
> Edit: hold on, rerunning the measurement on laptop...5 mins


Can you explain what the numbers mean and what parameters are desirable?


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have my first quality measurement of the GOTL.  Since they are @2359glenn 's favorite tubes, I measured the GOTL using the GEC L63 as inputs, GEC 6AS7G as outputs.
> 
> This is a 1kHz FFT at 1.1VRMS signal output into 300ohms (using my brand spanking new dummy load ).
> 
> ...



What are you using for a sign wave generator? And what is the distortion of that as a reference point?


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have my first quality measurement of the GOTL.  Since they are @2359glenn 's favorite tubes, I measured the GOTL using the GEC L63 as inputs, GEC 6AS7G as outputs.
> 
> This is a 1kHz FFT at 1.1VRMS signal output into 300ohms (using my brand spanking new dummy load ).
> 
> ...



Not to bad 0.16% of second harmonic


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> What are you using for a sign wave generator? And what is the distortion of that as a reference point?



Hey Glenn, I am using a new Motu M4 audio interface, is has a DAC+ADC built in.  Software I am using is called Arta, I am also running the OTL into a switchable dummy load I put together today.

Here is the loopback measurement of the Motu M4, so this is basically the floor of the measurements I can do with the setup as is.  THD at 0.00062%, but noise dominates so THD+N is 0.002%


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 11, 2020)

Here is the same measurement but with GEC L63 inputs, a sextet of Toshiba 6BX7GT outputs.  Distortion is a hair higher, but there is more of a third-harmonic component present at around -86dBFS.  I wonder if this accounts for the more bright character of these output tubes (the Toshibas, specifically).

1kHZ FFT 1.027VRMS signal output into 300ohms, left channel.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Can you explain what the numbers mean and what parameters are desirable?



Hey mordy.

So for the FFT test, I am injecting a 1kHz sine wave into the amp and measuring the output.  The "VRMS" value I stated is the root-mean-square voltage of the sine wave test signal.  The Fourier Transform function (aka math) takes the signal from the frequency vs time domain to a frequency vs amplitude domain, which is what is shown on the graph.

The large peak in the middle at 1kHz is the test signal.  The shorter peaks to the right at multiples of 1kHz (2kHz, 5kHz, etc) are harmonic distortion.  THD is a percentage measure of the total distortion contribution to the output signal.  THD+N adds in components of the output signal that are not distortion, any other noise (power supply, etc.).  The two peaks to the left at 60Hz and 120Hz are from the power supply, the mains frequency and full-wave rectified mains, which contribute to noise.  Keep in mind this is dB so it is a logarithmic scale on the y-axis.

As far as what is desirable, that is hard to say for a tube amp, it varies with topology, tubes used, use of negative feedback, just too many variables.  But like Glenn said, 0.16% THD is pretty darn good, and it is almost completely second harmonic, which is expected for tubes.


----------



## mordy

Thanks - I think I understand it a little better after your explanation.
So in sum, are you looking for the lowest THD+N as a measure of the success of the design?
And is there a correlation between this value and how it sounds? Ore am I asking the wrong question?


----------



## chrisdrop

I am still on my mission for the quietest possible setup. Some questions today on valve _testing_:

Testing - when using a valve tester, does a good test result mean that the tube _will_ work well or that it is _very likely_ to work well? What does standard testing miss if it can test well and still have noise? 
Matching - I think/ assume that matching is so you have clear channel matching (not different sounding out of L/R). What do things like "electrically matched" mean? If you get matched pair would you expect 1 to work well and the other less well?
Win rate: When buying NOS tubes from good sellers, what % of valves do you expect to be somewhat noisy?
Recovery rate: When you have a valve that is slightly noisy, how often can you silence it using devices like dr @mordy has written about here?
Now that more valves are open for use (after removing some other issues), I am trying to calibrate valve-level noise and what is good/ bad/ ugly therein.

N.B. I found this amusing:


Spoiler: Self-service tube testers



from Wikipedia on tube testers:




An RCA self-service tube tester on display at the Oklahoma History Center.
From the late 1920s until the early 1970s, many department stores, drug stores and grocery stores in the U.S. had a self-service tube-vending display. It typically consisted of a tube-tester atop a locked cabinet of tubes, with a flip chart of instructions. One would remove the tubes from a malfunctioning device, such as a radio or television, bring them to the store, and test them all, looking up the instructions from the model number on the tube and the flip chart. If a tube was defective, store personnel would sell a replacement from the cabinet.

At that time, tubes in consumer devices were installed in sockets and were easily replaceable, except for the CRT in televisions. Devices typically had a removable back with a diagram showing where to replace each tube. There were only a few types of tube socket; a radio or television set would have multiple identical sockets, so it was easy to mistakenly exchange tubes with different functions, but similar bases, between two different sockets. If testing showed all tubes to be working, the next step was a repair shop. As transistorized devices took over the market, the grocery-store tube-tester vanished.


----------



## chrisdrop

What level -dB do we expect to be beneath audibility on your plot? Measurement noise threshold is maybe -110-120dB in your plots. Given this comment:



L0rdGwyn said:


> there is more of a third-harmonic component present at around -86dBFS. I wonder if this accounts for the more bright character ...



I assume at least -86dB is audible at some level?




L0rdGwyn said:


> The two peaks to the left at 60Hz and 120Hz are from the power supply, the mains frequency and full-wave rectified mains, which contribute to noise.



Given that _I think_ levels those are in the audible range and are power supply related (amp can't work without power!), what determines their magnitude? I ask specifically because I fiddled around quite a bit with trying to lessen/ manage hum at the UK 100Hz magnitude. If there is anything that can be done to pull those down it seems desirable.

To be clear, this is not in any way a critique, just trying to understand  (did some more reading here on rectification). I have a slight power obsession after my mission therein.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> What level -dB do we expect to be beneath audibility on your plot? Measurement noise threshold is maybe -110-120dB in your plots. Given this comment:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is a complicated question since we do not hear all frequencies equally well.  It also depends on whether you are listening with open or closed headphones, the noise floor of the room you are listening in, etc. -86dBFS is definitely pushing it as far as audibility goes, so I can't say whether or not that third harmonic has an appreciable affect on the sound, maybe not.  -60dBFS of noise is very difficult to hear, especially with music playing.  This is all very hotly debated as to "what constitutes transparency" and I am not an expert on psychoacoustics.  Some would say -90dB is the threshold of hearing, others would tell you that -120dB is necessary for transparency (although this is a ridiculously low level).

Finding the cause of hum is also complicated.  If it originates from the power supply, it would require additional filtering.  Could also be from inductive or capacitive coupling inside the amp.  Quoting Morgan Jones, here are the various ways he lists hum being introduced into an amplifier:

-Directly injected from a power supply - aka not enough filtering
-Poor heater/cathode insulation within a valve - best way to test this is to change valves
-Electrostatic pick-up: Unwanted capacitance between signal and power wiring requiring
increased separation or an interposed earthed conductive screen.
-Electromagnetic pick-up: Unwanted mutual inductance between signal and power wiring
that can be reduced by increasing separation between the two coils (one of which
may be a simple wire) or rotating one coil.
-Hum loop: Check for excess signal connections to the chassis.
-Poor earth contact to the chassis: Undo the wanted contact to the chassis, clean the contact
surfaces, reassemble, tighten with spanner. Check the soldered joint.


----------



## 2359glenn

All  amps are a compromise #1 being cost and #2 being size. 
I suppose I could have used larger chokes in the power supply but would have made the amp larger and more expensive.
Also a separate power supply with the power transformer on a separate chassis. This would eliminate 50/60 Hz hum.
Hum from the transformer vibrating at the line frequency and be picked up by slightly micro phonic tubes.
And running the tube filaments on DC would help. But a problem when the tubes draw 10+ amps the power supply would
be large and expensive.
Making a totally silent tube amp is possible but at at least twice the price. But will not eliminate micro phonics and tube hiss.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 12, 2020)

mordy said:


> Thanks - I think I understand it a little better after your explanation.
> So in sum, are you looking for the lowest THD+N as a measure of the success of the design?
> And is there a correlation between this value and how it sounds? Ore am I asking the wrong question?



Well most important will be how the amplifier actually sounds  lowering THD+N is desirable but the ability to do so is going to depend on several design choices.  For instance, in the amplifier I am building, I will be using an unregulated power supply.  The driver tubes are using CCS loading so will have very high power supply noise rejection.  However, the power tubes will not have a CCS, so the power supply is "in the signal path".  I have made adjustments to increase the power supply rejection of the output stage for that reason.  BUT, you could also use a regulated power supply design, or a CCS on the output tubes to increase their power supply rejection further and reduce the noise floor.

Then again, rather than using a single-ended triode design, the output tubes of push pull amplifiers are 180 degrees out of phase, so the noise on the output cancels, so they are less affected by power supply rejection.

The point I am trying to make is there is no universal standard for success or failure in tube amps.  When my amp is complete and I measure, I am looking for it to be "in the ballpark".  Something like 0.1-0.5% THD+N would be expected.  Now if I measure 1% THD+N or higher, that would tell me there is a problem somewhere, it shouldn't be that high for a headphone amp.  Now if I were using the amp to drive speakers, that is another story, as the distortion rises with output level.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 12, 2020)

@chrisdrop like Glenn says, making an ultra-quiet power supply is a matter of size and cost.  In my SET design, I will be using three high-inductance chokes and ripple on the output is projected to be less than 10 microvolts.

But 1) the chokes and capacitors I will be using are very large, easily the largest internal components of the amplifier and 2) they are very expensive, just the filter components alone (meaning chokes and capacitors) will come out to something like $500 USD.

Getting good power supply rejection in a small package requires a regulated power supply or isolating the tubes from the power supply via something like a constant current source load.  I am no expert on regulated designs though, I understand the concept but I opted not to use them since I am using tube rectification.  What's the point of using a tube rectifier if I can't hear my power supply?! 

Another tidbit, through the design process, I have learned why tube rectifiers are no longer used.. they are an absolute PITA to design around.  I guess I'll find out if the "rectifier sound" magic is worth the effort.


----------



## chrisdrop (Jan 12, 2020)

Thanks @2359glenn & @L0rdGwyn. Super interesting. You guys are founts of knowledge and I have some years to acclimatise . I am a software and maths sort of person so I find the engineering very fascinating. Hardware is .. hard and not easily changed once built, whereas software is .. soft and easily changed once built. It must have taken many years of thought and experience to get these designs to where they are today.

And to be clear; listening is immensely pleasurable with my GOTL presently  It is something of an acoustic pleasure dome which (certainly my wife would say) has changed my listening life massively - for the better.

Right now enjoying:


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> All  amps are a compromise #1 being cost and #2 being size.
> I suppose I could have used larger chokes in the power supply but would have made the amp larger and more expensive.
> Also a separate power supply with the power transformer on a separate chassis. This would eliminate 50/60 Hz hum.
> Hum from the transformer vibrating at the line frequency and be picked up by slightly micro phonic tubes.
> ...


Since it appears that no matter how good the design is of the tube amp, the tubes themselves may be a source of noise. Is there any research and thoughts on using vibration proof and noise insulated socket mounts?


----------



## leftside

@mordy in my email correspondences with @A2029 he sent me the following in regards to the regulated power supply:

"The transformers will be in the power supply chassis and not in the amplifier chassis. The power transformers feed the capacitor banks and the regulators within the power supply chassis. Regulated power lines then get fed through the umbilical to the amplifier chassis to power all of the tubes. In this way, all of the signal circuitry stays fully inside of the amplifier chassis, and all of the unfiltered power stays within the power supply chassis, with only highly filtered DC being sent from the power supply chassis to the amplifier chassis."

Some good technical conversations on here this morning. I think I'll go and have a second cup of tea and come back for a second read!


----------



## leftside

chrisdrop said:


> Thanks @2359glenn & @L0rdGwyn. Super interesting. You guys are founts of knowledge and I have some years to acclimatise . I am a software and maths sort of person so I find the engineering very fascinating. Hardware is .. hard and not easily changed once built, whereas software is .. soft and easily changed once built. I


Agreed. Though at some organizations I consult at, software isn't so easily changed, and hardware can simply be pulled out and replaced.


----------



## JazzVinyl

In my Harman Kardon turntables.   I remove the Transformer and DC conversion PC board from the underside of the table and house it in a separate enclosure, then beef up the DC filtering.  Then feed the clean DC to the turntable motor via a shielded RCA cable.   I have confirmed that this works well.  A turntable cartridge (like tubes) can "shake" from the 60hz vibration that is caused by the AC and its transformer being under the platter/tonearm.

The talk here of external power supplies brought this back to mind.  I have had my table table power supplies separated this way...for many years


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> In my Harman Kardon turntables.   I remove the Transformer and DC conversion PC board from the underside of the table and house it in a separate enclosure, then beef up the DC filtering.  Then feed the clean DC to the turntable motor via a shielded RCA cable.   I have confirmed that this works well.  A turntable cartridge (like tubes) can "shake" from the 60hz vibration that is caused by the AC and its transformer being under the platter/tonearm.
> 
> The talk here of external power supplies brought this back to mind.  I have had my table table power supplies separated this way...for many years


Great mod! Good idea to separate the power from the plinth and away from the platter/plinth/tonearm. A lot of turntables (including my VPI) have this separation.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 12, 2020)

Continuing various power tube measurements using the same parameters as those for the GEC 6AS7G and Toshiba 6BX7GT, and again GEC L63 input tubes, here is something quite interesting...

1kHz FFT 1.041VRMS signal output into 300ohms, left channel.

Say hello to the Western Electric 421A at 0.022% THD+N.  Getting a little close to my floor there 421A, chill!


 

The elusive Tung-Sol 7802 is next, very interested by this one...


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 12, 2020)

Well holy moly, looks like my ears are worth a damn after all.  Here we have the Tung-Sol 7802 (one pair) driven by the GEC L63.  What gives it its ultra fast, almost solid-state-like sound and uber tight bass?

1kHz FFT 1.126VRMS signal output into 300ohms, left channel.

Yeah that's 0.013% THD, 0.026% THD+N.  Second harmonic down at -81dBFS.  I wonder if this will be the GOTL power tube distortion king.


 

Bendix 6080WB slotted graphite plates coming next, will give them some time to warm up.  Then Cetron 6336B.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well holy moly, looks like my ears are worth a damn after all.  Here we have the Tung-Sol 7802 (one pair) driven by the GEC L63.  What gives it its ultra fast, almost solid-state-like sound and uber tight bass?
> 
> 1kHz FFT 1.056VRMS signal output into 300ohms, left channel.
> 
> ...


The Cetron 6336B does the job of 4x6080. Can you measure the THD of a quad of 6080 tubes, and secondly, two different sets mixed together of 6080 tubes? Curious if the THD becomes higher from more power tubes or if there is a relation to current draw.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 12, 2020)

I will have to come back to the Bendix 6080WB, I didn't write down the input signal voltage so I will redo the measurements.  These graphite tubes take forever to heat up and stop ting-ping-pinging.

Here is a pair of Cetron 6336B fed again by the GEC L63.

1kHz FFT 1.154VRMS signal input into 300ohms, left channel.  THD 0.14%, THD+N 0.14%.  Output level was increased from the original measurement I made, hence the slightly worse distortion, but for the most part, the result is unchanged, still quite a bit of noise with these tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> The Cetron 6336B does the job of 4x6080. Can you measure the THD of a quad of 6080 tubes, and secondly, two different sets mixed together of 6080 tubes? Curious if the THD becomes higher from more power tubes or if there is a relation to current draw.



Don't worry mordy, that is on my to-do list, I will do some 2 vs 4 output tube comparisons.  Although, I have very few matched quads, might have to use some mismatched pairs together, like Mullard and GEC 6080s, 5998 and 421A.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 12, 2020)

Here are the repeated Bendix 6080WB FFT measurements, not significantly different from before.

1kHz FFT 1.047VRMS signal output into 300ohms, left channel.  THD 0.19%, THD+N 0.19%.

 

It is worth noting that all of these measurements are being done with the tubes in the back row of the GOTL, closest to the transformer.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 12, 2020)

Putting a temporary moratorium on any additional measurements.  With the 60Hz and other noise creeping up as I went, I suspected something was up.  Rechecked a loopback and had 60Hz noise that was not there before.  A light dimmer in the other room was part of the problem, but there seems to be more than one culprit  I will repeat the measurements to be sure they are accurate once I find the issue.

Edit: okay, after walking around my house with my laptop and audio interface and a continuous loopback measurement running, I have found the lowest noise room...at the expense of my girlfriend and cats looking at me like I am a lunatic.

Back to a happy place.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well holy moly, looks like my ears are worth a damn after all.  Here we have the Tung-Sol 7802 (one pair) driven by the GEC L63.  What gives it its ultra fast, almost solid-state-like sound and uber tight bass?
> 
> 1kHz FFT 1.056VRMS signal output into 300ohms, left channel.
> 
> ...



Maybe that is why the 7802 sounds almost solid state the distortion is so low? It is down to what SS amps are.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Hum from the transformer vibrating at the line frequency and be picked up by slightly micro phonic tubes.


Glenn - do you think some vibration pads / feet may help with that?  Something like: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K9ZYP84/ (placed under the GOTL)
If anyone else experimented with similar isolation feet - please share your findings!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 12, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> Maybe that is why the 7802 sounds almost solid state the distortion is so low? It is down to what SS amps are.



I am redoing the measurements now that I have dealt with the noise issue.  The distortion of the 421A is also VERY low, will post once I have updated them all.

THD of the repeated 7802 measurement is 0.013%.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Okay, finished redoing the measurements from earlier today.  Here is one more, Tung-Sol 5998.  This pair has copper rods, which from my listening experience, translated into better sound.  Wish I still had a pair of steel rods to compare measurements, oh well.

1kHZ FFT 1.013VRMS into 300ohms, left channel.  THD 0.015%, THD+N 0.1%.  Quite similar to the 421A, but more noisy.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 12, 2020)

So from today, driven by the GEC L63 at 1kHz with ~1V RMS output into 300ohms, we have:

Western Electric 421A - THD 0.013%, THD+N 0.022%
Tung-Sol 7802 - THD 0.013%, THD+N 0.026%
Tung-Sol 5998 - THD 0.015%, THD+N 0.10%
Cetron 6336B - THD 0.14%, THD+N 0.14%
Bendix 6080WB - THD 0.19%, THD+N 0.19%

Any suggestions on what to do next?  Assuming this interests anyone else but me lol.  Still haven't measured my GEC or Mullard 6080s, but I suspect the results will be similar to the Bendix and GEC 6AS7G, around 0.15-0.20% THD+N.

Here are things I am thinking about testing:

Relative distortion of various makes of 6BX7 sextets - RCA, Fivre, GE, Toshiba, Tung-Sol (although that will be a huge PITA)
Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plate vs Sylvania 6BL7GT T plate
2 vs 4 6AS7 type output tubes
Comparison of various 6J5 makes


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> So from today, driven by the GEC L63 at 1kHz with ~1V RMS output into 300ohms, we have:
> 
> Western Electric 421A - THD 0.013%, THD+N 0.022%
> Tung-Sol 7802 - THD 0.013%, THD+N 0.026%
> ...



I think everyone likes to know the distortion of the different tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Glenn - do you think some vibration pads / feet may help with that?  Something like: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K9ZYP84/ (placed under the GOTL)
> If anyone else experimented with similar isolation feet - please share your findings!



They can't heart I put Vibropods on my 300B amps .


----------



## Celty (Jan 12, 2020)

I know nothing about tube amps, but am seriously considering a Glenn. I'm basing this primarily on this forum as well the fact that Zach of ZMF speaks very highly about his amps, and that Glenn uses ZMF's so he is knowledgeable about what works well with them. I also like the idea of supporting an individual who is a true craftsman and pursuing his art. That is also part of what motivated me to order the Auteur. 

I sent him a PM inquiring about what his recommendation would be for me. I don't foresee becoming a "tube roller", but want a solution that will get the most from my soon to arrive Auteur. Any input and suggestions are appreciated.


----------



## leftside

Good posts @L0rdGwyn!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> I think everyone likes to know the distortion of the different tubes.



Alright!  Then I will keep on truckin'.

@mordy distortion is additive for 4 vs 2 power tubes, however there are other benefits (power output, output impedance).

Here is a pair of 421A with a pair of 5998.  Same as before, 1kHZ FFT 1.156VRMS output signal into 300ohm, left channel.  Notice that the THD has increased from approximately 0.013% for a single pair to 0.044% for two pairs in parallel.  Also, I changed out my GEC L63 to a pair that is slightly less noisy.

And thanks @leftside !  Hopefully this is useful for people, it is something I have wanted to mess around with for a long time.  Full frequency vs THD sweeps might be more telling of the whole picture, but I think you can get a ballpark idea of how different tubes compare with a 1kHz FFT plot.


----------



## leftside (Jan 12, 2020)

The "rules" around THD seem complicated.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/5-thd-to-000-thd-sound?page=1
https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/why-tubes-sound-better.htm

After reading the above, this might explain some of the differences of vinyl vs digital, and tubes vs solid state I hear in my systems. And perhaps some of the differences we hear between different tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Great mod! Good idea to separate the power from the plinth and away from the platter/plinth/tonearm. A lot of turntables (including my VPI) have this separation.



Yes, thanks.  The mod requires the TT motor to run on DC.  Many of the popular tables have an AC motor in them, so you can't do this.   That was one reason that I gravitated to the HK tables that used DC motors.

There was a higher end, late 1970's Table that had a completely separate power supply...started with a "V" can't recall the name.  But lust of that table (that I could not afford at the time) gave me the idea  

Didn't realize the VPI tables had this!  Very cool...!


----------



## Monsterzero

Celty said:


> I know nothing about tube amps, but am seriously considering a Glenn. I'm basing this primarily on this forum as well the fact that Zach of ZMF speaks very highly about his amps, and that Glenn uses ZMF's so he is knowledgeable about what works well with them. I also like the idea of supporting an individual who is a true craftsman and pursuing his art. That is also part of what motivated me to order the Auteur.
> 
> I sent him a PM inquiring about what his recommendation would be for me. I don't foresee becoming a "tube roller", but want a solution that will get the most from my soon to arrive Auteur. Any input and suggestions are appreciated.


 I had no interest in tube rolling either. I figured I'd just get a GOTL,find the agreed upon God-Tier tubes,buy them and call it a day. I now have a cupboard full of tubes,with thousands of possible combos.
If you want to stick to the basics ask Glenn to build you a basic amp. It will still sound great with your ZMF.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> The "rules" around THD seem complicated.
> https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/5-thd-to-000-thd-sound?page=1



Oh yes agreed, just one data point.  I don't think THD is the end all, too many factors in play.  For example, the Western Electric 421A and Tung-Sol 7802 measure close to the same THD, but they are distinctly different sounding tubes.  I have always felt the 421A and 7802 were on the same plane of performance in terms of transparency, and turns out they have very similar distortion figures.

And then yesterday I measured relatively high distortion for a sextet of Toshiba 6BX7GT at 0.17%, over ten times the distortion of the 421A, but subjectively I would say those tubes match or exceed the transparency of the 421A, so their increased perceived performance may be in part related to higher power and their effect on output impedance, despite higher THD.

Just too many variables lol but measuring stuff is fun.  I will say that within a very similar family of tubes, like the 6AS7G/6080/5998/421A group, their relative distortion figures do align closely with how I hear them in terms of _transparency_, but transparency does not necessarily equate to listening enjoyment.  Will be interesting to see how the distortion of the various 6BX7GT tubes compare.


----------



## leftside

I had the ultrasonic record cleaner out this morning, and this afternoon I've been comparing the same recording on vinyl and digital. I imagine different types of distortion are at play here when I hear the very different sounds.

I've been measuring with my ears and you've been measuring with instruments  I'm an analytical/scientific guy, so I also like to see the measurements.


----------



## Celty

Monsterzero said:


> I had no interest in tube rolling either. I figured I'd just get a GOTL,find the agreed upon God-Tier tubes,buy them and call it a day. I now have a cupboard full of tubes,with thousands of possible combos.
> If you want to stick to the basics ask Glenn to build you a basic amp. It will still sound great with your ZMF.


What is the "basic amp", and how does it differ from the GOTL? Sorry to ask such basic questions, but as you know there is not a web page for Glenn Studio that has a description of models and options.


----------



## Velozity

@L0rdGwyn can you measure the NEC 6520?  I'm very interested to try these in the near future.


----------



## mordy

Celty said:


> What is the "basic amp", and how does it differ from the GOTL? Sorry to ask such basic questions, but as you know there is not a web page for Glenn Studio that has a description of models and options.


I believe that the basic amp has three tubes + rectifier and costs much less than the 9/10 socket GOTL. Your best bet is to PM Glenn directly at 2359glenn.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Velozity said:


> @L0rdGwyn can you measure the NEC 6520?  I'm very interested to try these in the near future.



Here you are sir, 1kHz 1.132VRMS into 300ohms, left channel. THD is 0.16%.  Right where I would predict, this seems to be where this family of tubes operates (that being the 6AS7G and 6080), I will probably see a similar 0.15-0.20% THD when I measure the GEC and Mullard 6080 as well.  For comparison, I measured the GEC 6AS7G at 0.17% THD and the Bendix 6080WB at 0.19% THD.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 12, 2020)

Just as another reference point, some years ago a member of the Bottlehead forum took his Bottlehead Crack + Speedball to work and measured it using various input and output tubes on an Audio Precision analyzer.  Here are the frequency vs. THD sweeps he did using different output tubes with a 5814 input, 1VRMS into 300ohms.



The relative values are not the same, but you can see a similar pattern, the THD of the 5998 is roughly 1/2 the THD of the various 6080 and 6AS7G.  In the GOTL, there is a tenfold difference in THD between 6080/6AS7G and 5998/421A.

But again, THD is not the end-all-be-all, just another data point.


----------



## Celty

mordy said:


> I believe that the basic amp has three tubes + rectifier and costs much less than the 9/10 socket GOTL. Your best bet is to PM Glenn directly at 2359glenn.


Thanks and yes, I did send him a PM. This was a heck of a weekend for me, Saturday got the "shipped" notice for the Auteur, and today my Chief's had that incredible comeback game!


----------



## 2359glenn

The problem with THD is it has no correlation on how a amp sounds. Back in the 70s there was THD wars I was working at Harman Kardon
then. Company's were claiming .0001% THD using gobs of feedback to get there.  Most sounded like crap!!
Gobs of feedback takes the life out of the music.
Was fun working there they had a sound room were we got to listen to all the competition. And they paid me for this!!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 13, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> The problem with THD is it has no correlation on how a amp sounds. Back in the 70s there was THD wars I was working at Harman Kardon
> then. Company's were claiming .0001% THD using gobs of feedback to get there.  Most sounded like crap!!
> Gobs of feedback takes the life out of the music.
> Was fun working there they had a sound room were we got to listen to all the competition. And they paid me for this!!



I remember HK and the THD wars!  
And the HK sales literature of the day telling you that you had to measure the slew rate of the square wave to get the true story 

*Ultrawideband*  'eh Glenn 

Agree that the THD numbers do not automatically equate to how pleasant (or "good" or "bad") an amp sounds.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I sold some nice 12AU7 tubes, Pinnacle 13D5, shipping them out today.  I typically do a quick listen to make sure the tubes are okay before sending.

Since I as putting them in the GOTL anyway, I figured I'd do a quick measure.  Little did I know I would be opening a rabbit hole...

With the GEC 6AS7G, the amp was putting out around 0.025% THD, when I had measured the GEC 6AS7G closer to 0.17% THD the day before with 6J5 drivers.

So I put in a pair of 5998 to see what would happen.  I also compared with a 6SN7 I had out, a gray plate Fivre, to see what would happen, again at ~1VRMS output into 300ohms, here are the results.

(side note, I discovered one of my two GEC 6AS7G measures much better than the other, so these results are with the better of the two)

GEC 6AS7G & Pinnacle 13D5 - 0.025% THD
GEC 6AS7G & Fivre 6SN7GT - 0.11%
Tung-Sol 5998 & Pinnacle 13D5 - 0.048% THD
Tung-Sol 5998 & Fivre 6SN7GT - 0.013% THD

So the 6AS7G is pairing better with the 13D5 and the 5998 is pairing better with the 6SN7GT.  What does it mean?!  Not sure, I can see how the measurements rabbit hole can go very deep, don't have time to investigate every possible driver-output combination, but wanted to mention it.  For my purposes, the other measurements stand as I use 6J5 drivers almost exclusively, but it appears the 6AS7G/6080 tubes may hold an advantage in THD with different driver tubes at least from a measurements standpoint.

May come to regret doing all of these measurements LOL I just wanted to measure the amp I am building, and now I've created a monster.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> I sold some nice 12AU7 tubes, Pinnacle 13D5, shipping them out today.  I typically do a quick listen to make sure the tubes are okay before sending.
> 
> Since I as putting them in the GOTL anyway, I figured I'd do a quick measure.  Little did I know I would be opening a rabbit hole...
> 
> ...


Very interesting measurements and stories. Thank you for 1) doing and 2) sharing!
It would be interesting to see what noisy tubes test like perhaps. Getting a gradient on great (low distortion presumably) to noisy (high distortion presumably) would be interesting.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here are things I am thinking about testing:
> 
> Relative distortion of various makes of 6BX7 sextets - RCA, Fivre, GE, Toshiba, Tung-Sol (although that will be a huge PITA)
> Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plate vs Sylvania 6BL7GT T plate
> ...



I think all of these ideas sound interesting.  Related to the discussion of potentially measuring the "tube sound", do you have any tubes that would be considered syrupy and comparable tube types that you would consider clear and more like solid state?  I'm not sure what the best example comparison is here.  I think you are doing this already with the 6BX7 and 6J5 brand comparisons, I'm just wondering if you are including specific tubes that would have an extremely "tubey" sound to see how they measure.  Maybe you have tested some of those already and I missed it.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 13, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> Very interesting measurements and stories. Thank you for 1) doing and 2) sharing!
> It would be interesting to see what noisy tubes test like perhaps. Getting a gradient on great (low distortion presumably) to noisy (high distortion presumably) would be interesting.



Well noisiness and distortion don't necessarily go hand-in-hand.  For instance, that 13D5 is one of the quietest driver tubes I have measured, evidenced by the relatively flat noise floor (sorry, I did not take a screenshot).  The Fivre 6SN7GT by comparison was noisier i.e. more "junk" and noise spikes on the floor.  BUT, when measured with the 5998, the Fivre has lower harmonic distortion, despite its higher noise.  The opposite pattern is seen with the 6AS7G, so any distortion gradient would seem to depend on the choice of output tube with a particular driver in the GOTL.  That is the confounding part of the discovery above, the distortion ranking order could be reversed depending on the output tube.  The correct way to do these measurements would be to measure the driver stage in isolation from the output stage, but I just don't have time to work on it, maybe in the future.

As I have thought about it, a measured comparison of driver tubes with a particular power tube will prove to be quite challenging.  The issue is due to the fact that I have a stepped attenuator on the GOTL, I cannot perfectly level-match the signal output.  That is why some measurements are being done at ~1.050 VRMS output and others are being done at ~1.150 VRMS output, it is as close as I can get with the stepped attenuator.  Now this isn't a huge issue when we are talking about measuring power tubes that have a 15-20dB difference in second harmonic distortion.  But when comparing the differences in distortion of various 6J5, the difference might be 1-3dB, so that 0.100VRMS difference in signal output is going to affect the sensitivity of the measurement.

Long story short, unless I go nuts, open the GOTL and reattach an ALPS pot for the sake of doing measurements, the differences in distortion between driver tubes will likely be beyond the sensitivity of the measurements I can make with these setup  sorry!  Who knows though, I have done crazier things.

Edit: One thing I can try is using a lower signal output for comparison and more gain on the audio interface, this would give me smaller voltage steps on the attenuator, so the signal output matching would be better but still not ideal, with lower S/N ratio.  I'll check it out


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 13, 2020)

GDuss said:


> I think all of these ideas sound interesting.  Related to the discussion of potentially measuring the "tube sound", do you have any tubes that would be considered syrupy and comparable tube types that you would consider clear and more like solid state?  I'm not sure what the best example comparison is here.  I think you are doing this already with the 6BX7 and 6J5 brand comparisons, I'm just wondering if you are including specific tubes that would have an extremely "tubey" sound to see how they measure.  Maybe you have tested some of those already and I missed it.



So far I have only compared output tubes.  I guess it would depend on what output tubes people find to be more "tubey".  I don't find many of the 6J5 tubes to sound that way, as far as outputs, maybe some of the 6080s?  With the L63, they have about 10x more distortion than the 5998/421A, which I tend to find more transparent sounding.  Since I have sold off many tubes, my pool of test subjects is smaller than it used to be


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> So far I have only compared output tubes.  I guess it would depend on what output tubes people find to be more "tubey".  I don't find many of the 6J5 tubes to sound that way, as far as outputs, maybe some of the 6080s?  With the L63, they have about 10x more distortion than the 5998/421A, which I tend to find more transparent sounding.  Since I have sold off many tubes, my pool of test subjects is smaller than it used to be


The Russian re-issue Tung Sol 6SN7GTB I found to be very syrupy - slow and too sweet.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> So far I have only compared output tubes.  I guess it would depend on what output tubes people find to be more "tubey".  I don't find many of the 6J5 tubes to sound that way, as far as outputs, maybe some of the 6080s?  With the L63, they have about 10x more distortion than the 5998/421A, which I tend to find more transparent sounding.  Since I have sold off many tubes, my pool of test subjects is smaller than it used to be



I have little to no experience with 6080's, but are there general themes with brands of them, e.g. RCA is warmer and in the syrupy direction (maybe not totally syrupy, and maybe depending on year of manufacture) and something like GE is in the opposite direction?


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> and now I've created a monster.


There can be only one.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

GDuss said:


> I have little to no experience with 6080's, but are there general themes with brands of them, e.g. RCA is warmer and in the syrupy direction (maybe not totally syrupy, and maybe depending on year of manufacture) and something like GE is in the opposite direction?



Well I don't have any RCA power tubes, but I do have an RCA 1633 driver.  With the limitations of comparing driver tubes above, might be tricky but I will give it a shot!  I also have the Brimar 13D1 and Ken-Rad 1633 for comparison.  Just don't have many "tubey" power tubes unfortunately.  Best bet for a warm power tube might be the Mullard 6080, have not measured those yet.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well I don't have any RCA power tubes, but I do have an RCA 1633 driver.  With the limitations of comparing driver tubes above, might be tricky but I will give it a shot!  I also have the Brimar 13D1 and Ken-Rad 1633 for comparison.  Just don't have many "tubey" power tubes unfortunately.  Best bet for a warm power tube might be the Mullard 6080, have not measured those yet.



I have an RCA 1633 and it's warm, but not the most tubey sounding tube I have (that honor goes to a 40's RCA 12SL7 grey glass).  But given the power tubes are easier to do the comparisons with, it will be interesting to see how your 6080 comparisons go across brands and how it lines up with your subjective rating of their sound.  I know you have made these comparisons between tube types e.g. TS 5998 to GEC 6AS7G, but it seems that it would be hard to know what influence the tube design has when moving from one structure to another (i.e. is the different sound due to differential distortion levels or differences in the way the tube is designed).  If you do a comparison between brands of tubes that essentially have a similar design, but sound different (assuming this is even true when comparing two manufacturers using a similar design), that would in theory eliminate a major tube design influence on the sound.  It's also possible that at this point I'm just making up logic where it doesn't exist. 

In any case, good luck, we're all counting on you .


----------



## leftside

@L0rdGwyn 
https://hackaday.com/2020/01/08/commercial-circuit-simulator-goes-free/


----------



## Velozity

Last few pages have been all text and technical talk.  Time for a pic!  Loving the Chatham clear-top +  TS BGRP combo with the Atticus right now.









Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> I think all of these ideas sound interesting.  Related to the discussion of potentially measuring the "tube sound", do you have any tubes that would be considered syrupy and comparable tube types that you would consider clear and more like solid state?  I'm not sure what the best example comparison is here.  I think you are doing this already with the 6BX7 and 6J5 brand comparisons, I'm just wondering if you are including specific tubes that would have an extremely "tubey" sound to see how they measure.  Maybe you have tested some of those already and I missed it.



C3g and 5998 - most SS like imo
6J5 RCA and 6as7g or 6080 - most syrupy...?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Velozity said:


> Last few pages have been all text and technical talk.  Time for a pic!  Loving the Chatham clear-top +  TS BGRP combo with the Atticus right now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Such a cool looking amp and goes "oh so well" with your cans


----------



## mordy

Velozity said:


> Last few pages have been all text and technical talk.  Time for a pic!  Loving the Chatham clear-top +  TS BGRP combo with the Atticus right now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Celty

Velozity said:


> Last few pages have been all text and technical talk.  Time for a pic!  Loving the Chatham clear-top +  TS BGRP combo with the Atticus right now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not usually a cable jewelry guy, but those are wicked.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I sold some nice 12AU7 tubes, Pinnacle 13D5, shipping them out today.  I typically do a quick listen to make sure the tubes are okay before sending.
> 
> Since I as putting them in the GOTL anyway, I figured I'd do a quick measure.  Little did I know I would be opening a rabbit hole...
> 
> ...



The only problem now that you measured the distortion on all these tubes. You find a pair that you like the sound of and know in the back of your mind
that they have a crappy distortion measurement.
Well none of them really had high distortion.


----------



## 2359glenn

Velozity said:


> Last few pages have been all text and technical talk.  Time for a pic!  Loving the Chatham clear-top +  TS BGRP combo with the Atticus right now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



At least you know now that your amp has low distortion. And what tubes are lowest distortion when you are buying more tubes.


----------



## raindownthunda

Velozity said:


> Last few pages have been all text and technical talk.  Time for a pic!  Loving the Chatham clear-top +  TS BGRP combo with the Atticus right now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Beautiful setup!! I love that wood on the Atticus and matching amp. Even the cable fits the color scheme well. Did you plan for them to match? I was thinking about asking Glenn about custom/upgrade enclosures for my upcoming amp build. I used to believe functionality was all that mattered to me, but ever since I got my Ziricote Aeolus I have a newfound appreciation for aesthetics in quality gear. I ended up building a custom BHC amp enclosure with ziricote wood to match. It doesn’t sound any better, but it makes me happier, and enjoyment is what this hobby is all about, right??


----------



## 2359glenn

raindownthunda said:


> Beautiful setup!! I love that wood on the Atticus and matching amp. Even the cable fits the color scheme well. Did you plan for them to match? I was thinking about asking Glenn about custom/upgrade enclosures for my upcoming amp build. I used to believe functionality was all that mattered to me, but ever since I got my Ziricote Aeolus I have a newfound appreciation for aesthetics in quality gear. I ended up building a custom BHC amp enclosure with ziricote wood to match. It doesn’t sound any better, but it makes me happier, and enjoyment is what this hobby is all about, right??



That turned out being a real pretty amp that matches the ZMF phones. But there is not as much room in the wooden chassis.
Really can only do the basic OTL but it sounds the same as the one with all the sockets.  Just can't do as much tube rolling.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> @L0rdGwyn
> https://hackaday.com/2020/01/08/commercial-circuit-simulator-goes-free/



Very interesting!  I'll look into it.  I've skimmed through the thread discussing it on diyaudio.com, some users prefer it to LTSpice, the UI looks better in Microcap.  I am not so invested in LTSpice that I wouldn't mind switching if it was worth it.  Thanks for the link 

Going to measure some of my remaining power tubes in a little bit, GEC 6080WA, Mullard 6080, Chatham 6AS7G, may do some quick listening tests as well.  Not sure any of these tubes are "syrupy", I just might not have any syrupy tubes hmmm 



2359glenn said:


> The only problem now that you measured the distortion on all these tubes. You find a pair that you like the sound of and know in the back of your mind
> that they have a crappy distortion measurement.
> Well none of them really had high distortion.



Most of these tubes have measured really well!  I was shocked the distortion was so low with the 421A/7802.  I am not a huge objectivist anyway, I've strayed from that path.  Tube amps are rarely going to have the distortion figures of solid-state designs, but I still prefer them.  And that SW1X DAC I am going to be getting would probably measure poorly since it is a tube output R2R non-oversampling design, but the measurements aren't everything, the testimonials are off-the-charts positive.  Something isn't being captured or the the wrong thing is being measured, that is my take.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Okay, here are measurements of three more 6AS7G/6080 tubes.

Same parameters as before, driven by the GEC L63.  1kHZ FFT ~1VRMS into 300ohms, left channel.

Tung-Sol Chatham 6AS7G clear top, 1.138VRMS signal output.  THD 0.26%.

 

GEC/MOV 6080WA, 1.048VRMS signal output.  THD 0.19%.

 

Mullard 6080.  1.117VRMS signal output, THD 0.17%.


----------



## Velozity

raindownthunda said:


> Beautiful setup!! I love that wood on the Atticus and matching amp. Even the cable fits the color scheme well. Did you plan for them to match? I was thinking about asking Glenn about custom/upgrade enclosures for my upcoming amp build. I used to believe functionality was all that mattered to me, but ever since I got my Ziricote Aeolus I have a newfound appreciation for aesthetics in quality gear. I ended up building a custom BHC amp enclosure with ziricote wood to match. It doesn’t sound any better, but it makes me happier, and enjoyment is what this hobby is all about, right??



Thanks, yes I did plan for them to match-ish.  Bought the amp first then the headphones and then cable.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I have my oven mitt on, doing the 6BX7GT measurements now.


----------



## Velozity

@mordy Thanks!  Just used my phone lol.  Amazing the photo capabilities of these things these days.  Yes it is the basic version but souped-up with most of the upgrades.  It's only basic in it's tube complement.  The sound is other-worldly.


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have my oven mitt on, doing the 6BX7GT measurements now.



I know that process..  the oven mitt tube swap, not the measurements.  Had to get a dedicated oven mitt for swapping, so I don't get the tubes all greasy .


----------



## Celty

Velozity said:


> @mordy Thanks!  Just used my phone lol.  Amazing the photo capabilities of these things these days.  Yes it is the basic version but souped-up with most of the upgrades.  It's only basic in it's tube complement.  The sound is other-worldly.


Hmm, that sounds very much in the line of what I have been thinking of..


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 14, 2020)

Here are the 6BX7GT measurements.  I know most people have the GE, but they are not here, I'm sorry!  I have a sextet, but it is something of a rough group, need to test them again and be sure they are safe to use.  So, here are all of the 6BX7GT I have except GE.

It is worth nothing, swapping tubes from one channel to the other sometimes had huge effects on the THD measurements.  I did my best to find combinations of tubes to get something of an average value that was consistent across both channels.

As usual, driven by the GEC L63 1kHz FFT ~1VRMS into 300ohms, left channel.

RCA 6BX7GT clear top side getter 1.164VRMS signal ouput, THD 0.21%.



Toshiba 6BX7GT 1.151VRMS signal ouput, THD 0.20%.



Fivre 6BX7GT  1.025VRMS signal output, THD 0.19%



Tung-Sol 6BX7GT 1.070VRMS signal ouput, THD 0.11%



A couple things.  Overall, these tubes are much quieter than the 6AS7 family, with the exception of the RCA.  Other than the Tung-Sol, the THD measurements are pretty consistent across the board, with second harmonic at roughly -60dB, third harmonic at roughly -80dB.  That 0.11% THD for the Tung-Sol was actually one of the higher measured values for those tubes, with some combinations I was seeing THD levels of 0.03%!  Tried to average it out.  Just one very low distortion tube out of three can cut the measured value in half for one channel.  Funny thing is...the Tung-Sol are my least favorite of the bunch  just goes to show you distortion ain't everything.  Or perhaps just the right amount of distortion improves the perceived performance that was Bob Katz' conclusion in the article I posted a week or so ago, he recommended -66dB second harmonic for the best listening experience.

Remind me never to do this again.


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Jan 14, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Alright!  Then I will keep on truckin'.
> 
> @mordy distortion is additive for 4 vs 2 power tubes, however there are other benefits (power output, output impedance).
> 
> ...



Verite on GOTL with WE421A, GEC 6J5G ST and WE422A sounds glorious. 

 

My 421As had been sitting in the cupboard for awhile... didnt really care for them with other drivers after i discovered ECC32 or Sylvania 6SN7W with Sylvania 6BL7.  The recent addition of GEC 6J5G has me revisiting all my power tube combos, and stuff that I put aside are now coming alive enjoyably


----------



## Celty

Velozity said:


> Last few pages have been all text and technical talk.  Time for a pic!  Loving the Chatham clear-top +  TS BGRP combo with the Atticus right now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Velozity said:


> @mordy Thanks!  Just used my phone lol.  Amazing the photo capabilities of these things these days.  Yes it is the basic version but souped-up with most of the upgrades.  It's only basic in it's tube complement.  The sound is other-worldly.


Would you mind sharing what upgrades you had Glenn include?


----------



## 2359glenn

Celty said:


> Would you mind sharing what upgrades you had Glenn include?



 Remember the upgrades I built it.
Lundahl transformer , Gold Point stepped attenuator  ,  Jupiter coupling capacitors.
This amp can't do all the tube rolling but with a good set of tubes sounds fantastic.
It still has a long list of tubes it can use.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Remember the upgrades I built it.
> Lundahl transformer , Gold Point stepped attenuator  ,  Jupiter coupling capacitors.
> This amp can't do all the tube rolling but with a good set of tubes sounds fantastic.
> It still has a long list of tubes it can use.




Should be pretty easy to get a nice quiet and black back round only using two power tubes.


----------



## Celty (Jan 14, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> Remember the upgrades I built it.
> Lundahl transformer , Gold Point stepped attenuator  ,  Jupiter coupling capacitors.
> This amp can't do all the tube rolling but with a good set of tubes sounds fantastic.
> It still has a long list of tubes it can use.


Wow an excellent memory, thanks. I'm looking forward to reading your PM. That really does seem to be a good direction, but I'll of course wait to see what you suggest. Basically I would just be saying hey you know more than I could ever pretend to, so your guidance is appreciated. It's pretty cool to have an expert builder roll out an amp designed for your preferences.


----------



## mordy

UsoppNoKami said:


> Verite on GOTL with WE421A, GEC 6J5G ST and WE422A sounds glorious.
> 
> 
> 
> My 421As had been sitting in the cupboard for awhile... didnt really care for them with other drivers after i discovered ECC32 or Sylvania 6SN7W with Sylvania 6BL7.  The recent addition of GEC 6J5G has me revisiting all my power tube combos, and stuff that I put aside are now coming alive enjoyably


Hi UNK,
This is the reason that I am reluctant to sell tubes that are not being used- suddenly there is a new discovery and those tubes get  a prominent place again.


----------



## maxpudding

Velozity said:


> Last few pages have been all text and technical talk.  Time for a pic!  Loving the Chatham clear-top +  TS BGRP combo with the Atticus right now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice looking cables you have there


----------



## maxpudding

UsoppNoKami said:


> Verite on GOTL with WE421A, GEC 6J5G ST and WE422A sounds glorious.
> 
> 
> 
> My 421As had been sitting in the cupboard for awhile... didnt really care for them with other drivers after i discovered ECC32 or Sylvania 6SN7W with Sylvania 6BL7.  The recent addition of GEC 6J5G has me revisiting all my power tube combos, and stuff that I put aside are now coming alive enjoyably



Nice setup you have there

I can see the ha-1a mk2


----------



## Zachik

Velozity said:


> Last few pages have been all text and technical talk.  Time for a pic!  Loving the Chatham clear-top +  TS BGRP combo with the Atticus right now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@Velozity - do you like the springy feet for the amp? They're not attached to the amp, right?
I was looking for something like these (or the rubbery kind) to see if reducing mechanical vibration would quiet some of the transformer hum...


----------



## chrisdrop

Zachik said:


> @Velozity - do you like the springy feet for the amp? They're not attached to the amp, right?
> I was looking for something like these (or the rubbery kind) to see if reducing mechanical vibration would quiet some of the transformer hum...


Isolation feet did provide value for me exactly as you say.
I have those same springy feet. 1/2 tennis balls did just as good a job.
You can choose the amount of money you want to spend. You can get magnetic-levitation isolation feet that make your amp hover, but it might cost you a few bucks!
Herbies has some rubbery feet


----------



## Velozity

maxpudding said:


> Nice looking cables you have there



Thanks.  Norne Draug 3 with new clear / black cable option and bloodwood splitter.




Zachik said:


> @Velozity - do you like the springy feet for the amp? They're not attached to the amp, right?
> I was looking for something like these (or the rubbery kind) to see if reducing mechanical vibration would quiet some of the transformer hum...



Yes they actually do the job.  I have a couple of tubes that are pretty microphonic and they would pick up the vibration from my mechanical keyboard (yeah, I'm a little heavy handed, lol).  Put these feet on and the vibrations are damped.  Bought them from Amazon after someone else in this thread suggested them.  They're not attached to the amp.  They have rubbery pads on each aluminum disc for a nice non-slip surface.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 15, 2020)

After all of the measurements the past few days, I am burnt out, I need a break.  The end result for me: the Tung-Sol 7802 is going back in the power tube slot for a while.  I ranted about these oddball tubes months ago, time to give them some more time.  To my knowledge, that is the first time they have been measured in an OTL headphone amp (at least publicly), very gratifying to see the low-distortion results match the subjective listening experience.

Here they are with my old military Sylvania VT-94D (6J5GT).  Fast, fast, fast and dynamic, the bass is tight, great combination.  When I had 6SN7s, the Sylvania 6SN7W metal base was my go-to driver for the 7802.  These will do just fine 



Listening to a favorite Italian electronic artist of mine, Clap! Clap!, album is called _Tayi Bebba_.  Think...the perfect marriage of EDM and (good) world music.  Paul Simon is a big fan of his.  Might be up your alley @Monsterzero .


----------



## gibosi

While it seems that many here have forsaken double triodes in favor of singles, I wanted to spend some quality time with the Raytheon 5694. Up until now, I haven't been all that impressed with this tube, but realized that I haven't taken the necessary time to find synergistic combinations.

First I tried a Holland-made GZ34, but no magic. Next, a GEC U18/20, but still no magic. Now I've got a Hungarian Tungsram AZ4 installed and there is definitely some magic. Later I plan to roll in Valvo, Loewe and Telefunken rectifiers.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> There isn't a thread, so I'm just going to post here for now, but I put a down payment on an interesting DAC.  I will be getting a "DAC II Special" from the maker SW1X Audio Design in the UK.  To say that I am excited is a massive understatement.
> 
> The creator, Slawa Roschkow, specializes in NOS R2R designs that are tube-rectified, tube output, no op-amps, minimal use of transistors.  He also implements a USB to SPDIF converter with a tube master clock.  The particular model I am getting also allows you to roll transistors in the I/U conversion stage.  The only other person on Head-Fi I know of who owns one of Slawa's DACs is our host.  Talking with Slawa, Glenn, as well as reading testimonials convinced me this is the right fit.  I'll likely make a thread when it arrives, but it will be some time before it is completed.
> 
> http://sw1xad.co.uk/



Revisiting a thread from a few months back. @L0rdGwyn - still watching/ waiting to hear about your DAC when it comes. While browsing today, I found a link to their Facebook page today with this quote from earlier in the week:

_Some recent Feedback on the DAC III: "Some fine tuning, this thing, you just opened a crack in my system a dropped a huge, bleeding, veins out dripping flat on a surface piece of heart in the middle of everything, yes it has gobs if detail, extension, yes. Separation of instruments whatever, there are not just instruments playing, they are crying, they are happy, the singer is playing his soul with the devil right in front of me.
Digital, analog: hell... "_​Exciting times ahead. At some point in the year, I want to get a new DAC and have been enjoying reading. These look interesting. I have just been on a link-journey through reviewers on audiogon.

On another note, I'd like to file an *official complaint*. After spending a lot of time listening over the holidays in December, listening on my GOTL setup has _ruined listening on any other system_. Office listening is now officially sad.



Thanks a LOT! Great problem to have.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 15, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> Revisiting a thread from a few months back. @L0rdGwyn - still watching/ waiting to hear about your DAC when it comes. While browsing today, I found a link to their Facebook page today with this quote from earlier in the week:
> 
> _Some recent Feedback on the DAC III: "Some fine tuning, this thing, you just opened a crack in my system a dropped a huge, bleeding, veins out dripping flat on a surface piece of heart in the middle of everything, yes it has gobs if detail, extension, yes. Separation of instruments whatever, there are not just instruments playing, they are crying, they are happy, the singer is playing his soul with the devil right in front of me.
> Digital, analog: hell... "_​Exciting times ahead. At some point in the year, I want to get a new DAC and have been enjoying reading. These look interesting. I have just been on a link-journey through reviewers on audiogon.
> ...



LOL WOW, that is some review.  The feedback I've read has been positive, but that takes the cake for the most over-the-top review I have seen.  I better buy a mop too with these bleeding hearts being lobbed around, what a mess.

I probably won't have the DAC until March or so.  I put down a deposit, but the remaining balance has been put on hold so I can build my SET amp.  Still very excited about it, but I can only handle one massive audio expense at a time.  All told, this is going to be somewhere around a $2.5K build, which does not include what I have spent on tubes, test equipment, construction tools, etc.  At this point everything has pretty much been planned to a T, just waiting until I am comfortable to pull the $1400 trigger on the iron.  Will be using Lundahl's premium amorphous core output transformers, which are $500 a piece with the shields  then three Lundahl chokes...whoooooo boy, it adds up fast.  But when it comes down to it, it is about the sound and this is a for-life type of item, so I'm willing to pay for it.

I will definitely post an update when the SW1X DAC is inbound, may even start a dedicated thread.  I'm hoping to make it to ZMFestivus again this year, in which case the DAC and my SET amp would definitely be making an appearance.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Springing for amorphous iron has been debated here before, but I don't think anybody has actually done it.  It's one of those nebulous things were people acknowledge there is a difference but can't pin down exactly how it's better.  If it's purity of tone/timbre that improves then I would spend the money on it too, otherwise probably not.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 15, 2020)

As I won't be doing an A-B comparision, I'm afraid I won't be able to shed light on the topic.  What I will be able to say is "amp good" or "amp bad".  What I have read though has piqued my curiosity, and since I have already committed countless hours to this project, I'm willing to pay the additional cost in hopes that it will help give the best possible end result.  It will be an extra $350.

Here is Kevin Carter's take at K&K Audio.  From his point of view, it seems to be an improvement in microdetail, transparency, and 3D imaging.
https://www.lundahltransformers.com...een-mu-metal-and-amorphous-core-transformers/

And here is an over-the-top review back when they were first released around 2005.  This user did a direct switch from mu metal to amorphous.  For him, sounds like just about everything improved.
https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/KandK/3413/amorphous-core-output-transformers

I have read other positive impressions on diyAudio.  Who knows, but I'm going to give it a shot.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> As I won't be doing an A-B comparision, I'm afraid I won't be able to shed light on the topic.  What I will be able to say is "amp good" or "amp bad".  What I have read though has piqued my curiosity, and since I have already committed countless hours to this project, I'm willing to pay the additional cost in hopes that it will help give the best possible end result.  It will be an extra $350.
> 
> Here is Kevin Carter's take at K&K Audio.  From his point of view, it seems to be an improvement in microdetail, transparency, and 3D imaging.
> https://www.lundahltransformers.com...een-mu-metal-and-amorphous-core-transformers/
> ...



1) Nice new avatar. Seems fitting.
2) I did curse you for sending me on more reading about the pros/ cons of an amorphous core transformer this weekend. Reading in areas where I have low basic understanding is of marginal utility, but fun nonetheless!


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> While it seems that many here have forsaken double triodes in favor of singles, I wanted to spend some quality time with the Raytheon 5694. Up until now, I haven't been all that impressed with this tube, but realized that I haven't taken the necessary time to find synergistic combinations.
> 
> First I tried a Holland-made GZ34, but no magic. Next, a GEC U18/20, but still no magic. Now I've got a Hungarian Tungsram AZ4 installed and there is definitely some magic. Later I plan to roll in Valvo, Loewe and Telefunken rectifiers.



The 5694 is extremely rare these days!

Enjoy your example


----------



## JazzVinyl

Keepin’ it simple:

12AU7 and 5998’s


----------



## Monsterzero

A follow up to my cable video. I have purchased the FTA Callisto USB,the C-Marc LessLoss RCA,and the C-Marc power cable for my DAC. 
Because im really into wallet abuse im having two more C-Marc power cables en-route on loan. One for my server and one for my GOTL. If the cable does for my GOTL the same as it did for my Lampizator,im going to purchase another on the spot...Will report back.


----------



## Xcalibur255

If your server is a computer and it's feeding signal to your DAC then a power cable upgrade will net an improvement there.  That was still easily the biggest "you've got to be **** me" moment when I was messing with power cables was the discovery that adding one to my computer made a bigger difference than it did on the amp.  Never in a million years would I have thought that would matter, but my ears say it does.  I only ever bought one silver power cable, the rest were copper, and the silver one is connected to the PC (which is source in my system).


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> The 5694 is extremely rare these days!
> 
> Enjoy your example



Very fortunately, over the years I have been able to acquire three of them so I'm in pretty good shape.


----------



## raindownthunda

Monsterzero said:


> A follow up to my cable video. I have purchased the FTA Callisto USB,the C-Marc LessLoss RCA,and the C-Marc power cable for my DAC.
> Because im really into wallet abuse im having two more C-Marc power cables en-route on loan. One for my server and one for my GOTL. If the cable does for my GOTL the same as it did for my Lampizator,im going to purchase another on the spot...Will report back.


Apologies if you mentioned this elsewhere, but does the surge protector / power strip make a difference with these high-end cables? Do they need to be plugged straight into the wall for full effect? I'm wondering if a cheap surge protector/power strip will void any differences the high-end cable would make. I'm just sitting here listening to my cheap monoprice cable wondering what I'm missing out on


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Very fortunately, over the years I have been able to acquire three of them so I'm in pretty good shape.



Indeed!  Enough to last a lifetime!   I never did locate a single example!


----------



## Monsterzero

raindownthunda said:


> Apologies if you mentioned this elsewhere, but does the surge protector / power strip make a difference with these high-end cables? Do they need to be plugged straight into the wall for full effect? I'm wondering if a cheap surge protector/power strip will void any differences the high-end cable would make. I'm just sitting here listening to my cheap monoprice cable wondering what I'm missing out on


 _Everything_ makes a difference. I used to use a $100.00 Belkin power bar/conditioner. I got rid of that and got a PS Audio Dectet,which is still affordable,relatively speaking. That eliminated quite a bit of noise I was experiencing.

We recently did a total re-model on my mancave,and had our electrician install a dedicated line just for my audio gear. I dont hear any difference between going straight into the wall vs. into the Dectet,though some claim it is better to go right into the wall.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Did the Dectet change the voicing of your system at all?  Make treble smoother, change leading edges, etc.?


----------



## Monsterzero (Jan 16, 2020)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Did the Dectet change the voicing of your system at all?  Make treble smoother, change leading edges, etc.?


I would say the biggest and most noticeable changes were a cleaner and much smoother sound with better dynamics. Thats with the cheaper power cables in place.
When I had the C-Marc LessLoss power cable in my DAC,which went into the Dectet,thats wen things really went holographic on me.
If you have the cash(these cables aint cheap),you should reach out to Constantin They have a cable loaner program,so you can hear for yourself before you buy.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> I got rid of that and got a PS Audio Dectet,which is still affordable,relatively speaking. That eliminated quite a bit of noise I was experiencing.


I also got a Dectet a little while ago... I have been exchanging PMs with a head-fi-er (he's not on this thread) who claims the Audio Quest Niagara 1200 is a big step up from the Dectet.
FYI in case you decide to do a power conditioner mini-shootout


----------



## L0rdGwyn

In the power conditioning department, one option I have been considering is a low capacitance isolation transformer.  There is a thread on it here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/top...ansformers-for-affordably-clean-power.857448/

Haven't dived into the details yet.  There are some boutique products out there, but using a Topaz transformer will be much cheaper without the audiophile markup.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> In the power conditioning department, one option I have been considering is a low capacitance isolation transformer.  There is a thread on it here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/top...ansformers-for-affordably-clean-power.857448/
> 
> Haven't dived into the details yet.  There are some boutique products out there, but using a Topaz transformer will be much cheaper without the audiophile markup.


A very informative thread. I think the whys and wherefores of their solution are even more interesting than the specific solution. The "final thing" they put forward is well thought out (diagramed in the very 1st post). Unfortunately (for me) outside the US, Topaz transformers are hard (impossible?) to come by. I definitely recommend a read of the thread for anyone thinking about power for their setup.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Once I get some of this other stuff done, I will likely get one of those transformers, build a nice chassis with multiple IEC outlets and wire it for balanced power.  It is in the project queue.


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> In the power conditioning department, one option I have been considering is a low capacitance isolation transformer.  There is a thread on it here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/top...ansformers-for-affordably-clean-power.857448/
> 
> Haven't dived into the details yet.  There are some boutique products out there, but using a Topaz transformer will be much cheaper without the audiophile markup.



I've looked into isolation transformers many times, but it always comes off as "fly by night" -ish to me.  You have to track them down as used surplus and re-wire them yourself, and then cross your fingers and hope you got one that doesn't hum audibly.  The off the shelf isolation products cost thousands of dollars and I bristle at buying one of those because I know there's maybe $200 worth of parts inside that $5,000 product.  These things are the holy grail of profit margin in an industry that already enjoys generous ones in many cases.


----------



## leftside

Are any of the "audiophile" products going to be better than this?
https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-IS500HG-Isolation-Transformer/dp/B00007KQKJ


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> I've looked into isolation transformers many times, but it always comes off as "fly by night" -ish to me.  You have to track them down as used surplus and re-wire them yourself, and then cross your fingers and hope you got one that doesn't hum audibly.  The off the shelf isolation products cost thousands of dollars and I bristle at buying one of those because I know there's maybe $200 worth of parts inside that $5,000 product.  These things are the holy grail of profit margin in an industry that already enjoys generous ones in many cases.



Have you looked into using a Topaz transformer?  If I were to pursue it, I would go the Topaz route and wire it myself, they are quite common on eBay.  Can be purchased on surplus sites as well, but at higher prices.  I haven't delved deeply into the details of what the project would entail, but from my reading, wiring the Topaz transformers in a balanced power configuration removes any audible hum.  I think that is the most affordable way to get the benefit.  I wouldn't purchase a transformer from a boutique company for the reasons you stated.  At least with a Topaz transformer I understand exactly what I am getting, as opposed to the mystery boxes many companies are selling.


----------



## Xcalibur255

@leftside 

I guess that is the question, but I have heard that these can be prone to hum as well.  I suspect the more load you put on the the more likely that is.


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Have you looked into using a Topaz transformer?  If I were to pursue it, I would go the Topaz route and wire it myself, they are quite common on eBay.  Can be purchased on surplus sites as well, but at higher prices.  I haven't delved deeply into the details of what the project would entail, but from my reading, wiring the Topaz transformers in a balanced power configuration removes any audible hum.  I think that is the most affordable way to get the benefit.  I wouldn't purchase a transformer from a boutique company for the reasons you stated.  At least with a Topaz transformer I understand exactly what I am getting, as opposed to the mystery boxes many companies are selling.



Yes, I was referring to the Topaz actually in my post.  You can find them but finding the right one is a game of patience and there is no way to know if you're getting a good one.

When I say hum I don't mean hum in the audio signal I mean the transformer itself creates an audible hum in your room which is a "cure is worse than the disease" level problem if you are listening on speakers.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 16, 2020)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Yes, I was referring to the Topaz actually in my post.  You can find them but finding the right one is a game of patience and there is no way to know if you're getting a good one.
> 
> When I say hum I don't mean hum in the audio signal I mean the transformer itself creates an audible hum in your room which is a "cure is worse than the disease" level problem if you are listening on speakers.



Yes, many Head-Fiers in the Topaz thread have reported a disappearance of in-the-room hum by wiring the transformers for balanced power, so this seems like the way to go.  Issue is needing quite a large transformer depending on how much gear you plan to connect to it.  I have to look into it further, but I will report back when I finally put it together.

@leftside the major advantage of the Topaz transformers is their very low inter-winding capacitance, which minimizes common mode noise well below the threshold of hearing.  Without that low capacitance, the noise can be capacitively coupled from the primary to secondary windings of the transformer, that is why these transformers are favored.  Don't see any specification in the Tripp Lite datasheet.


----------



## leftside

@A2029 has also been building a balanced isolation transformer using Plitron transformers.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/which-are-the-best-toroids.25475/


----------



## L0rdGwyn

All this transformer talk got the gears turning again, I bought one, a 2.5kVA MGE UPS 91002-31T.  $210 + shipping, good price from my reading.  Weighs 58 pounds.  This model can be center-tapped for balanced operation.

Spec sheet: http://www.pacificparts.com/vends/mge/images/t1.pdf


----------



## Monsterzero

This video by Mikey might be of interest to some of you...Way above my paygrade though.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Are any of the "audiophile" products going to be better than this?
> https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-IS500HG-Isolation-Transformer/dp/B00007KQKJ



No Tripp-Lite is a reputable company 
And you can go by the weight there is really a transformer in there.


----------



## 2359glenn

I have a large Topaz transformer that I used to have the pool filter plugged into.
There is no way my children were getting into a pool with the filter plugged directly to the line. The heck with GFCI by time it trip's
the people in the pool are dead.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> I have a large Topaz transformer that I used to have the pool filter plugged into.
> There is no way my children were getting into a pool with the filter plugged directly to the line. The heck with GFCI by time it trip's
> the people in the pool are dead.


 Now im paranoid to use my pool in the summer.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 16, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> I have a large Topaz transformer that I used to have the pool filter plugged into.
> There is no way my children were getting into a pool with the filter plugged directly to the line. The heck with GFCI by time it trip's
> the people in the pool are dead.



Here I am trying to lower the noise floor of my audio chain while Glenn is using these transformers to save childrens' lives.


----------



## 2359glenn

Some places like long Island & NYC it is code for a in ground pool the filter has to be on a isolation transformer.
Don't know why that isn't every were. Here in NC last summer a child got killed in a public pool when the pump
motor failed.
I even took it a step further I broke the through ground in the transformer just in case the neutral opened
on the transformer on the pole making ground hot.
There is no way I could handle my kids getting killed when I knew better.
And Topaz was the only one I trusted.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Monsterzero said:


> Now im paranoid to use my pool in the summer.



The first thing I learned working around engineers is don't let engineers tell you about things.  You'll see danger everywhere soon enough.


----------



## Monsterzero

Xcalibur255 said:


> The first thing I learned working around engineers is don't let engineers tell you about things.  You'll see danger everywhere soon enough.


 Yeah,im already uber paranoid about safety,home security etc...
When I move to Arizona im planning on getting a Neapolitan Mastiff to protect my beloved little mix breed girl from coyotes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Maybe I am a stupid engineer willing to spend a few bucks to possibly save a life.
When people are spending the same thing because there might be a minute hum in there stereo?
What is more important??


----------



## Xcalibur255

I thought the smiley emoticon was enough to frame my comment as being light hearted, but I guess it wasn't.


----------



## dminches

Instead of using power conditioners I installed one of these which supplies power to any outlet in my house which has audio equipment.  Equi=Tech 10WQ.


----------



## Monsterzero

dminches said:


> Instead of using power conditioners I installed one of these which supplies power to any outlet in my house which has audio equipment.  Equi=Tech 10WQ.


 Just quickly browsed their website and didnt see a dollar figure. Care to share what something like this would set one back?


----------



## dminches

Monsterzero said:


> Just quickly browsed their website and didnt see a dollar figure. Care to share what something like this would set one back?



New I think they are $10k.  I got it used, deeply discounted.  Some guy bought one and never used it.  It weighs 450 lbs.  Cost me $400 to have it shipped but it was a big bargain when you think about how much power conditioners cost.


----------



## Monsterzero

dminches said:


> New I think they are $10k.


 My wife loves me...but not that much.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 16, 2020)

Equi=tech is a big proponent of balanced power.  Read a review of that unit on 6moons a few months ago, goes into the details of balanced power and why they advocate it, interesting read (multiple pages, hit "next" on the bottom of each page, easy to miss).

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/equitech/1.html

I think their cheapest balanced power conditioner is something like $2,500.

Or you can get a Topaz transformer, use it for your pool filter in the summer, then hook it up to your audio chain in the winter and get 146dB CMN attentuation


----------



## 2359glenn

You want balanced power wire your equipment for 230/240 volt
And run a dedicated 240 volt line.  240 volt in the US is balanced 120-0-120 makes the 240.
I have some of my equipment running on 240 balanced. Started this because my DAC is 240 volt also have my headphone amp running on 240.
It was easy because there was a old 240 volt air conditioner outlet behind my equipment. The only thing on 120 is my preamp will have to change
transformers to change it to 240.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I'm not sure about balanced power yet Glenn, I definitely don't have a 240V line hiding in my house, it is possible to wire the Topaz transformers for 60-0-60.  Companies like Equi=tech I mentioned trumpet the benefits of balanced power, saying it gives additional noise rejection, reactive currents are canceled, etc.  Have to figure out the headache factor first.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Jan 16, 2020)

Removed, pointless question.


----------



## leftside (Jan 16, 2020)

Sonic Defender said:


> Removed, pointless question.


I saw your original question. I think we're talking about minimizing transformer hum from our amps/headphone amps. I've had issues with transformer hum in my house with everything from amps to DACs. I've managed to fix it with relatively cheap isolating devices. Tube amps seem particularly strange. My Woo WA22 transformers were quite noisy when I first got it. Settled down after a few weeks - bizarre. The Glenn 300B Lundahl transformers also had their moments when it first arrived. Settled down completely a few months later.

My McIntosh MC75 tube amps have always been dead silent. My McIntosh MC205 (solid state) was very noisy - but I fixed that problem with a Tripp-Lite Isolator for $100. My Lampizator Atlantic was noisy as well - actually sent it back to Lampizator, upgraded to a GA, and they promised me it was the quietest GA they've ever made after testing it thoroughly. It was still a little noisy in my home though lol. Again, fixed with a Tripp-Lite Isolator for $100.


----------



## Sonic Defender

leftside said:


> I saw your original question. I think we're talking about minimizing transformer hum from our amps/headphone amps. I've had issues with transformer hum in my house with everything from amps to DACs. I've managed to fix it with relatively cheap isolating devices. Tube amps seem particularly strange. My Woo WA22 transformers were quite noisy when I first got it. Settled down after a few weeks - bizarre. The Glenn 300B Lundahl transformers also had their moments when it first arrived. Settled down completely a few months later.
> 
> My McIntosh MC75 tube amps have always been dead silent. My McIntosh MC205 (solid state) was very noisy - but I fixed that problem with a Tripp-Lite Isolator for $100. My Lampizator Atlantic was noisy as well - actually sent it back to Lampizator, upgraded to a GA, and they promised me it was the quietest GA they've ever made after testing it thoroughly. It was still a little noisy in my home though lol. Again, fixed with a Tripp-Lite Isolator for $100.


Thanks, good response and helpful for understanding. Much appreciated.


----------



## Zachik

I was also looking at those Topaz transformers, hoping to reduce the hum from my non-Lundahl GOTL...
Currently, all my audio equipment is connected to a PS Audio Dectet "conditioning power strip". Should I connect the Topaz between the wall outlet and the Dectet?
Also, I have seen mention on the Topaz thread of not getting one that is "too big" and under-load it... @2359glenn - do you agree that the Topaz isolating transformer be at least 20-30% "loaded"?!  Currently, I have a DAC, GOTL amp and very low power (Intel NUC) "music server" connected to the Dectet. 
So... should I get a 250va version? 750va? 1.5kva? does it really matter??


----------



## UsoppNoKami

- intermission -

finally assembled a set of 6 Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plate 3 mica tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> I was also looking at those Topaz transformers, hoping to reduce the hum from my non-Lundahl GOTL...
> Currently, all my audio equipment is connected to a PS Audio Dectet "conditioning power strip". Should I connect the Topaz between the wall outlet and the Dectet?
> Also, I have seen mention on the Topaz thread of not getting one that is "too big" and under-load it... @2359glenn - do you agree that the Topaz isolating transformer be at least 20-30% "loaded"?!  Currently, I have a DAC, GOTL amp and very low power (Intel NUC) "music server" connected to the Dectet.
> So... should I get a 250va version? 750va? 1.5kva? does it really matter??



I think if you get a very large isolation transformer it may hum itself.  ALL TRANSFORMERS HUM TI SOME EXTENT.
The amp has a 250Va transformer in it so I would get at least 500Va.


----------



## 2359glenn

UsoppNoKami said:


> - intermission -
> 
> finally assembled a set of 6 Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plate 3 mica tubes



How do they sound??


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Jan 17, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> How do they sound??



The flat plate 6BL7GT tubes are still burning in, but early impressions are they have good bass and fullness of sound.  Vocals are clear and highs dont sound overemphasised or rolled off with the Sylvania 6J5 pair or single 6SN7W.

Despite the relatively higher gain of the 6BL7, my set of 6 tubes are quiet, no hum or noise from the tubes, also not microphonic.  Happy 

* Edit: all flat plates in now, Verite loves this roll!


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> I think if you get a very large isolation transformer it may hum itself.  ALL TRANSFORMERS HUM TI SOME EXTENT.
> The amp has a 250Va transformer in it so I would get at least 500Va.



Glenn - Thanks! Will probably go for 1kVa then, to allow some head-room for the new amp you're working on too... Will avoid the 2.5kVa (and bigger) monstrosities


----------



## dminches

Balanced power is still 120v.  It just runs 60 in each direction without a neutral.  The difference between 60 and -60 (so to speak) is 120.


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes I know with a transformer 60-0-60 is 120.
I was saying that 240 in the US and Canada is already balanced power.


----------



## dminches

Ahh!


----------



## whirlwind

Good Saturday to all.

Just rolled in the Mullard EL37 along with the 53KU rectifier and I am listening to a huge Eric Gayles playlist that I made.

Life is good!


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Just rolled in the Mullard EL37


Joe - the EL37 is the predecessor for EL34, from what I saw online... How does it sound compared to EL34?


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 18, 2020)

The EL37 was Mullards answer to the GEC KT66.
The Mullard EL37 can provide gobs of power, maybe 70 watts in a push/pull amp.

Running these in the GEL3N amp at 250 volts they sound fantastic...as Glenn has said, I would think they will last a long life and you also have the advantage of less distortion
If you are just using for headphones, this can be a huge plus...of course if you want to power speakers also then you may need more voltage on the plates and a different transformer.

As far as sound. A rich sound, nice and balanced, not as detailed or spacious as KT66...but does everything very well from top to bottom.
Fantastic mids. I am using 53KU rectifier and some Holland EL3N.
Rich warm sound.

As far as comparing the sound with EL34...I use different rectifiers for both tubes so I would have to sit down and do some A/B with the same tubes.

I have just been enjoying listening to my music, and not worrying about much else 

I have enough power tubes and rectifiers that would take quite some time to listen and compare all.

I have started exercising a bit since we bought a treadmill, so I doubt I will be doing any serious A/B tubes

The combo that I seem to listen to the most seems to be Mullard EL34 xf2 / Mullard GZ32 / any EL3N

Look forward to win I can hear these tubes with L63 and ECC31/32/33/35 drivers


----------



## chrisdrop (Jan 18, 2020)

UsoppNoKami said:


> - intermission -
> 
> finally assembled a set of 6 Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plate 3 mica tubes



Inspired by this 'intermission' post, I put some Sylvania 6J5s back in. It has been a few weeks. In combo with the mixed pairs of 6080s, it is sounding pretty beautiful today.

EDIT: forgot the pics!
  

Listening presently to a very spacious song:


----------



## chrisdrop

Looks like UT has moved on and we will have a new lucky listener. Great day and a great deal for someone.


----------



## whirlwind

chrisdrop said:


> Looks like UT has moved on and we will have a new lucky listener. Great day and a great deal for someone.



Congrats to the new owner. Fun times ahead for sure.

Got a killer deal too!


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Congrats to the new owner. Fun times ahead for sure.
> 
> Got a killer deal too!


It was almost worth buying just for the tubes! Let alone the amp. Best way to kick the addition... sell the amp. I'm almost 3 weeks into my new years resolution of not buying any more tubes... but it's tough lol.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> It was almost worth buying just for the tubes! Let alone the amp. Best way to kick the addition... sell the amp. I'm almost 3 weeks into my new years resolution of not buying any more tubes... but it's tough lol.



I know the feeling....especially if you are a tube collector and not someone who just wants enough tubes to change the sound up a bit.

I have fought off the temptation for a while and am saving for new cans...usually tubes get in the way of my savings, trying to be strong


----------



## cdanguyen08

Damn, I should checked this morning. Oh well! Glad someone got it


----------



## Monsterzero

@paramesh is the new lucky owner,and yes I agree,he basically got the amp for free w/ all those tubes thrown in.


----------



## Phantaminum

Nice! Congrats on the new Glenn OTL @paramesh 

Enjoy that amp to the fullest, especially with that tube horde. Going to be some fun times ahead of you tube rolling the heck out of that amp.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> I have just been enjoying listening to my music, and not worrying about much else


No worries - I got too many tubes already!! Just never heard of EL37 before, so was a little curious...


----------



## GDuss

Congrats to @paramesh and I hope you will be a regular on the Glenn thread.  UT was very welcoming to me when I got the GOTL from @Phantaminum last year, so I look forward to welcoming another new owner of a GOTL.  I'm still having a blast with mine.  Even though I got a huge tube stash from Phantaminum in the sale with the GOTL, I think I have still doubled that collection since then.  Tube buying addiction is for reals .


----------



## leftside

Zachik said:


> No worries - I got too many tubes already!! Just never heard of EL37 before, so was a little curious...


It's a great tube. Another similar one is the EL35. The earliest versions have a large ST/bulbous shape (like the earliest KT66), but can be expensive (like the earliest KT66...). Lamberto had a few of the EL37 ST NOS for sale a while ago.  You can sometimes pick them up for cheaper tho if you don't mind the faded print, 90% test results and in singles rather than pairs (which is what I've done). As is typical with most tube manufacturers, there are multiple slightly different construction versions (getters, etc).


----------



## DecentLevi (Jan 19, 2020)

I just got word from Glenn that my amp is next, after @Zachik . I think we met at SoCal CanJam, where are you at out of curiosity? And @carlman14  let me know when you get yours. And I guess you'll see me next weekend at the small Seattle cafe headphone meet I've set up.

He's also including 2-way cathode bias switch with one setting for EL34, EL12 and EL39, and another for the rest such as EL3N, EL12 Spez, KT66, KT88, etc. That's awesome he's figured out those settings for me! Anyone know, what if I mistakenly use the wrong bias switch settings - I'm assuming that won't cause any major issues? Maybe it will even sound better, HaHa.

Has anyone else around here gotten a Glenn SET amp? It seems like I'm the only one, save for a few GEL3N amps a long time back.


----------



## DecentLevi

Also for the rectifier I will have a plugin-in Hexfred and and "5 volt rectifier tubes and the 3.3 volt 3DG4. Plus 4 volt rectifiers with a B4 to 3DG4 adapter like GEC U18/20". I have no idea where to begin on this. @mordy do you have a cheap good one? And @UntilThen maybe you have an extra one since you won't be needing those with your current setup. 

And does anyone have an adapter?
And advice on which one sounds best? I like transparent organic sounds, also maybe another with good rhythm / slam.
thanks


----------



## UntilThen

Sorry DL I don't have adapters for 4 volt rectifiers. I only have 3 rectifiers - GEC U52, Cossor 53ku and Mullard GZ34 blackburn. These are use direct into Studio Six and Woo Audio WA22.


----------



## Celty (Jan 19, 2020)

I confirmed an order with Glenn for a "basic OTL" with some upgrades - Lundahl transformer, two 6AS7 type output tubes, two 6J5 drivers instead of a 6SN7, and a rectifier tube, Gold Point stepped attenuator, Jupiter coupling capacitors, and XLR input/outputs. (Ha, just read what I typed and think it actually sounded like I knew what I was talking about! I don't, I'm just following the suggestions of others with Glenn's advice.) 

Be awhile of course, but still, exciting to know I'll be getting it. I'm enjoying the Auteur with my current set up, so I'm looking forward to hearing them with a Glenn.


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> Lamberto had a few of the EL37 ST NOS for sale a while ago.


who's Lamberto?


----------



## Zachik

DecentLevi said:


> I think we met at SoCal CanJam, where are you at out of curiosity?


Yes, we did. I am in San Jose, CA.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> It was almost worth buying just for the tubes! Let alone the amp. Best way to kick the addition... sell the amp. I'm almost 3 weeks into my new years resolution of not buying any more tubes... but it's tough lol.



Haha yeah I am done with tube rolling. It's a beautiful amp though in tip top condition. @paramesh is very excited even though he already has a Teton and some serious stats gear. 

Enjoy Para !


----------



## cdanguyen08

DecentLevi said:


> I just got word from Glenn that my amp is next, after @Zachik . I think we met at SoCal CanJam, where are you at out of curiosity? And @carlman14  let me know when you get yours. And I guess you'll see me next weekend at the small Seattle cafe headphone meet I've set up.
> 
> He's also including 2-way cathode bias switch with one setting for EL34, EL12 and EL39, and another for the rest such as EL3N, EL12 Spez, KT66, KT88, etc. That's awesome he's figured out those settings for me! Anyone know, what if I mistakenly use the wrong bias switch settings - I'm assuming that won't cause any major issues? Maybe it will even sound better, HaHa.
> 
> Has anyone else around here gotten a Glenn SET amp? It seems like I'm the only one, save for a few GEL3N amps a long time back.



I put in an order back in Sep. Just waiting patiently for that next PM! When did you put your order in?


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> who's Lamberto?



an e-bay seller


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Also for the rectifier I will have a plugin-in Hexfred and and "5 volt rectifier tubes and the 3.3 volt 3DG4. Plus 4 volt rectifiers with a B4 to 3DG4 adapter like GEC U18/20". I have no idea where to begin on this. @mordy do you have a cheap good one? And @UntilThen maybe you have an extra one since you won't be needing those with your current setup.
> 
> And does anyone have an adapter?
> And advice on which one sounds best? I like transparent organic sounds, also maybe another with good rhythm / slam.
> thanks


Hi DL,
My GOTL has a built in Hexfred and no rectifier socket. You can contact Deyan for any adapters you need.


----------



## leftside (Jan 19, 2020)

cdanguyen08 said:


> I put in an order back in Sep. Just waiting patiently for that next PM! When did you put your order in?


I don't think there is any rhyme or reason to what amp gets built next. My request was April 2018, and others also requested around the same time without having an amp built yet. Others requested far later, and have had amps built.


----------



## cdanguyen08

leftside said:


> I don't think there is any rhyme or reason to what amp gets built next. My request was April 2018, and others also requested around the same time without having an amp built yet. Others requested far later, and have had amps built.



Well now I dont feel as bad haha glad yours is being made!! I expect to hear your thoughts once received.


----------



## paramesh

many thanks @Monsterzero  for adding me here !! ..(and thanks for all those reviews and youtube content!.. )
your threads on VC got me revisting GOTL again ... 
when i gave up the wanting to wait long ... and picked up a teton that came my way..

this thread is some serious archive and a great thing goin on here !! 

thanks to @GDuss ... master @Phantaminum  and all for the wishes !

and of course @UntilThen !! ..great guy !!
the even bigger deal than the stash of tubes ( helluva effort and time )and amp ...
is UT's rolling experience and zillion combinations that he is sharing with  me !! .. he's made it all easy rather 
its amazing thats he's had to get new tube sockets installed .. speaks volumes as what GOTL is all about and whats possible  !!
thanks again ..
will be around .. and hope to learn a lot from you all !!


----------



## chrisdrop

paramesh said:


> many thanks @Monsterzero  for adding me here !! ..(and thanks for all those reviews and youtube content!.. )
> your threads on VC got me revisting GOTL again ...
> when i gave up the wanting to wait long ... and picked up a teton that came my way..
> 
> ...


I am sure you will enjoy waiting for your new baby to arrive. Congrats & welcome!


----------



## UntilThen

paramesh said:


> and of course @UntilThen !! ..great guy !!
> the even bigger deal than the stash of tubes ( helluva effort and time )and amp ...
> is UT's rolling experience and zillion combinations that he is sharing with me !! .. he's made it all easy rather
> its amazing thats he's had to get new tube sockets installed .. speaks volumes as what GOTL is all about and whats possible !!
> ...



What praise .... and thank you. I'm but an ordinary professional soccer player with Barcelona. 

I'll include 7 x octal socket savers. They are the gold plated variety from MrsXuLing. If you're going nuts with tube rolling please use them. The forum here are helpful and they will guide you. 

GOTL will be a classic, especially the model you're getting. It is highly sought after. The last 2 GOTL sold in less than a day and for a very nice price. It will hold it's value.

Lastly, when I come to visit India, I will look you up for that curry feast !


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> GOTL will be a classic, especially the model you're getting. It is highly sought after. The last 2 GOTL sold in less than a day and for a very nice price. It will hold it's value.


Agreed. Classic amps actually seem to go up in price though...


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> GOTL will be a classic, especially the model you're getting. It is highly sought after. The last 2 GOTL sold in less than a day and for a very nice price. It will hold it's value.





leftside said:


> Agreed. Classic amps actually seem to go up in price though...



Glenn is an artist. Art keeps its value over the years. Enough said


----------



## DecentLevi

Zachik said:


> Yes, we did. I am in San Jose, CA.


Awesome, I love Silicon Valley and used to live around there, and used to set up some meets over there. And you can subscribe to this thread for people that may be organizing another meet down there too.
https://www.head-fi.org/posts/15422540/


----------



## JazzVinyl

UsoppNoKami said:


> The flat plate 6BL7GT tubes are still burning in, but early impressions are they have good bass and fullness of sound.  Vocals are clear and highs dont sound overemphasised or rolled off with the Sylvania 6J5 pair or single 6SN7W.
> 
> Despite the relatively higher gain of the 6BL7, my set of 6 tubes are quiet, no hum or noise from the tubes, also not microphonic.  Happy
> 
> * Edit: all flat plates in now, Verite loves this roll!



Well done!  Nice quiet flat plate 6BL7's are getting harder to come by, these days.  

Agree they are great sounding tubes!!


----------



## maxpudding

paramesh said:


> many thanks @Monsterzero  for adding me here !! ..(and thanks for all those reviews and youtube content!.. )
> your threads on VC got me revisting GOTL again ...
> when i gave up the wanting to wait long ... and picked up a teton that came my way..
> 
> ...



Welcome to the thread! You are very lucky to get UT's GOTL, congrats on the purchase.


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> Glenn is an artist. Art keeps its value over the years. Enough said



The reason his amps sell like a hot cake after being posted in the FS forum.


----------



## GDuss

Phantaminum said:


> The reason his amps sell like a hot cake after being posted in the FS forum.



... says someone whose Glenn amp sold like a hot cake in the FS forum .


----------



## Velozity

Just want to share my little experiment.  With all the talk of using dual-6J5 to 6SN7 adapters and socket swaps, I started to look for other single triode tubes to adapt to the 6SN7 slot.  Since my amp is a smaller footprint and my tubes are closer together, I wasn't sure I could fit the dual-6J5 adapter.  However I know that the 12AU7 is a near equivalent to the 6SN7, and I know from using them on my Audiotailor Jade that I like how it sounds paired with a 6AS7G power tube.  With a little research I found out that the 6C4 is exactly half of a 12AU7.  So in the spirit of adapters I asked @Deyan if he could make me a dual-6C4 to 6SN7 adapter.  The 6C4 tubes while not abundant are readily available, and all the major manufacturers made them.  So far I've purchased NU, GE, Tung-Sol, Mullard, and Brimar.  I've got feelers out there for some GEC and Osram L77 tubes as well.  I've only listened to the NU so far, but I am quite impressed.  They are super quiet and very spacious sounding when compared directly to my NU 6SN7.


----------



## Celty

Velozity said:


> Just want to share my little experiment.  With all the talk of using dual-6J5 to 6SN7 adapters and socket swaps, I started to look for other single triode tubes to adapt to the 6SN7 slot.  Since my amp is a smaller footprint and my tubes are closer together, I wasn't sure I could fit the dual-6J5 adapter.  However I know that the 12AU7 is a near equivalent to the 6SN7, and I know from using them on my Audiotailor Jade that I like how it sounds paired with a 6AS7G power tube.  With a little research I found out that the 6C4 is exactly half of a 12AU7.  So in the spirit of adapters I asked @Deyan if he could make me a dual-6C4 to 6SN7 adapter.  The 6C4 tubes while not abundant are readily available, and all the major manufacturers made them.  So far I've purchased NU, GE, Tung-Sol, Mullard, and Brimar.  I've got feelers out there for some GEC and Osram L77 tubes as well.  I've only listened to the NU so far, but I am quite impressed.  They are super quiet and very spacious sounding when compared directly to my NU 6SN7.


Cool. as at Glenn's suggestion, I am spec'ing my OTL to come with dual 6J5 sockets rather than a 6SN7.


----------



## Velozity (Jan 20, 2020)

So a little update on my 6C4 experiment, I am thoroughly pleased and happily surprised at these GE JG-6100 / 6C4WA with the triple mica.  The National Unions were really good, but not great.  Then I put these GE's in.  I've spent about 4 hours listening to these and I was so impressed that I decided to pull out my reference 6SN7 tube to compare.  Today, with my current hearing at least, these babies are hanging toe-to-toe with my Tung Sol BGRP.  I'm really finding it hard to find significant differences in the sound.  If anything, I feel the GE's are much quieter and have better instrument separation.  Acoustic instruments sound sublime.  What kind of voodoo is this??  I'm going to try again tomorrow with fresh ears, but if today's test is any indication, I expect my incoming European 6C4 / L77 tubes to put the smackdown on every 6SN7 tube I have.  Could it be so?  My ECC33 is going to be in for a fight.  A little later on if one of you seasoned guys with keen ears wouldn't mind trying this, I'd be willing to send you the adapter and some 6C4 tubes to confirm if what I'm hearing is real or just psychobabble.  Fun stuff!


----------



## 2359glenn

Velozity said:


> Just want to share my little experiment.  With all the talk of using dual-6J5 to 6SN7 adapters and socket swaps, I started to look for other single triode tubes to adapt to the 6SN7 slot.  Since my amp is a smaller footprint and my tubes are closer together, I wasn't sure I could fit the dual-6J5 adapter.  However I know that the 12AU7 is a near equivalent to the 6SN7, and I know from using them on my Audiotailor Jade that I like how it sounds paired with a 6AS7G power tube.  With a little research I found out that the 6C4 is exactly half of a 12AU7.  So in the spirit of adapters I asked @Deyan if he could make me a dual-6C4 to 6SN7 adapter.  The 6C4 tubes while not abundant are readily available, and all the major manufacturers made them.  So far I've purchased NU, GE, Tung-Sol, Mullard, and Brimar.  I've got feelers out there for some GEC and Osram L77 tubes as well.  I've only listened to the NU so far, but I am quite impressed.  They are super quiet and very spacious sounding when compared directly to my NU 6SN7.



I forgot about the 6C4 these are very good sounding tubes.
I have a pair labeled Harman Kardon made in Germany.
These are great tubes.  Not sure who made them other then made in Germany.
I am going to make adapters 6J5 to 6C4 to use these great tubes.
BTW I used to work for Harman Kardon


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> BTW I used to work for Harman Kardon


 I came across a great looking HK tube amp for sale . What are your thoughts on the A500?


----------



## leftside

It would certainly be interesting to try those 6C4 in dedicated 6J5 sockets with a 6C4 to 6J5 adapter.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> I came across a great looking HK tube amp for sale . What are your thoughts on the A500?



They were really good in there day. Most likely will need a rebuild capacitors replaced. Resistors checked for drifting.
It will need a extensive rebuild but then you will have a nice amp.
A new set of 7355 output tubes will be a pain to find.  The thing that makes Harman Kardon tube amps sound so good
is the Freed output transformers


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> They were really good in there day. Most likely will need a rebuild capacitors replaced. Resistors checked for drifting.
> It will need a extensive rebuild but then you will have a nice amp.
> A new set of 7355 output tubes will be a pain to find.  The thing that makes Harman Kardon tube amps sound so good
> is the Freed output transformers


Its been completely refurbished,and the seller is a well known electronics house. What is it worth in your opinion?


----------



## DecentLevi (Jan 21, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> Awesome, I love Silicon Valley and used to live around there, and used to set up some meets over there. And you can subscribe to this thread for people that may be organizing another meet down there too.
> https://www.head-fi.org/posts/15422540/


@Zachik
Sorry I shared the wrong link last time, here is the right link to follow for possible upcoming meets in the San Jose area.
https://www.head-fi.org/posts/15386406/

I'm still not receiving notifications from this thread even after un/resubscribing so anyone feel free to mention my name after the @ symbol if you want to get my attention. I'm more interested in info. and compatible  tubes for Glenn's SET / transformer coupled amps.

From what I've read here the performance is even better, and to me they're more symmetrical and pleasing to the eye.


----------



## gibosi

It's been pretty quiet here...

So in an effort to liven things up a bit, I recently received a big, old rectifier, but I know this isn't of much interest to most here:


----------



## Celty

gibosi said:


> It's been pretty quiet here...
> 
> So in an effort to liven things up a bit, I recently received a big, old rectifier, but I know this isn't of much interest to most here:


Actually it is quite interesting, would you mind describing your Glenn and the why's of your tube choices?


----------



## gibosi

Celty said:


> Actually it is quite interesting, would you mind describing your Glenn and the why's of your tube choices?



Well I got my GOTL in 2015, about five years ago. This was before the upgraded transformers, six output sockets and built-in HEXFRED became the "standard" Glenn OTL. So I have the American transformer, two output sockets and tube rectification. However, I was the first to request a pair of C3g sockets. All that said, the only thing I would change is the number of output sockets. I currently use adapters for 6BL7 and they are a PITA...

I am more of a tube roller and collector than an audiophile and I tend to chase after tubes that no one else is using. So in the picture above, the drivers are Mullard EL42 and the rectifier is a 4-volt Philips 1817. And while I didn't plan to go nuts over rectifiers, given that I have over 70 of them, I think it is fair to say that I am a rectifier-holic lol


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> It's been pretty quiet here...
> 
> So in an effort to liven things up a bit, I recently received a big, old rectifier, but I know this isn't of much interest to most here:


Haha - not a single socket occupied by its "native" tube. Adapters galore...


----------



## Celty

gibosi said:


> Well I got my GOTL in 2015, about five years ago. This was before the upgraded transformers, six output sockets and built-in HEXFRED became the "standard" Glenn OTL. So I have the American transformer, two output sockets and tube rectification. However, I was the first to request a pair of C3g sockets. All that said, the only thing I would change is the number of output sockets. I currently use adapters for 6BL7 and they are a PITA...
> 
> I am more of a tube roller and collector than an audiophile and I tend to chase after tubes that no one else is using. So in the picture above, the drivers are Mullard EL42 and the rectifier is a 4-volt Philips 1817. And while I didn't plan to go nuts over rectifiers, given that I have over 70 of them, I think it is fair to say that I am a rectifier-holic lol


Thank you, it helps me a lot to understand a bit more about what I am seeing. While our emphasis ( tube roller and collector vs. simple listener) is different, our shared interest in the Glenn and it's iterations are the same. As a newb with a Glenn on order I'm trying to learn as much as I can


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> I recently received a big, old rectifier, but I know this isn't of much interest to most here:


 Surely you jest. Love esoteric tubes,especially rectifiers. I'd probably have more if many didnt limit me in terms of what power tubes I can use with them.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Surely you jest. Love esoteric tubes,especially rectifiers. I'd probably have more if many didnt limit me in terms of what power tubes I can use with them.



Well, there's you, me and maybe one or two others, so still not a whole lot of interest. lol 

But specifically, the Philips 1817 can provide 300ma so you can run any combination of power tubes with it.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

I went a bit nuts with buying driver and power tubes while waiting for my GOTL lol.. on the other hand, besides the 3DG4, I only have 2 other rectifiers. Glenn told me about the WE422A early enough that I managed to buy a couple before prices became even crazier, and I found a great deal on a GEC U52 brown base too. Have not explored the 4V rectifier rabbit hole


----------



## 2359glenn

UsoppNoKami said:


> I went a bit nuts with buying driver and power tubes while waiting for my GOTL lol.. on the other hand, besides the 3DG4, I only have 2 other rectifiers. Glenn told me about the WE422A early enough that I managed to buy a couple before prices became even crazier, and I found a great deal on a GEC U52 brown base too. Have not explored the 4V rectifier rabbit hole



There are a lot of 4 volt rectifiers that are less money then there 5 volt counter part.
You will need a 3DG4 to B4 adapter. Don't use the ones that have the built in resistors they get burning hot inside.
The OTL will run these tubes with a straight through adapter no internal resistors.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> It's been pretty quiet here...
> 
> So in an effort to liven things up a bit, I recently received a big, old rectifier, but I know this isn't of much interest to most here:



That tube looks great!!!!


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Well, there's you, me and maybe one or two others, so still not a whole lot of interest. lol
> 
> But specifically, the Philips 1817 can provide 300ma so you can run any combination of power tubes with it.


Ah c'mon - we all like to see rectifier tubes. A lot of them look amazing.


----------



## Celty

Can you tell me the pro's and con's of Rectifier tubes vs. built-in HEXFRED?  If you were getting a new amp, which route would you go?


----------



## gibosi (Jan 22, 2020)

Celty said:


> Can you tell me the pro's and con's of Rectifier tubes vs. built-in HEXFRED?  If you were getting a new amp, which route would you go?



Tube rectifiers provide more control over the sound. That is, every rectifier sounds different. But the flip side of this is more complexity, one more variable, one more tube to roll. And many of the best rectifiers are often expensive.

HEXFRED is simple and cheap. It sounds great and you never have to think about it.


----------



## Monsterzero

Celty said:


> Can you tell me the pro's and con's of Rectifier tubes vs. built-in HEXFRED?  If you were getting a new amp, which route would you go?





gibosi said:


> Tube rectifiers provide more control over the sound. That is, every rectifier sounds different. But the flip side of this is more complexity, one more variable, one more tube to roll. And many of the best rectifiers are often expensive.
> 
> HEXFRED is simple and cheap. It sounds great and you never had to think about it.


 I dont know if the built-in HEXFRED sounds any different than the plug-in type,but I absolutely prefer my GOTL with a tube rectifier,and believe me when I say I wish that were not the case,as what Gibosi said,many of the great sounding rectifiers are not cheap.


----------



## mordy

Celty said:


> Can you tell me the pro's and con's of Rectifier tubes vs. built-in HEXFRED?  If you were getting a new amp, which route would you go?


For simplicity, I choose a build with a HEXFRED and I am very happy with my amp. As they say: Ignorance is bliss.....
That said, it seems to me that the people, who have a rectifier socket that also can take a HEXFRED plug-in, end up not using the HEXFRED and rectifiers instead.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Hi all,

I am about to enter into the realm of Glenn's OTL (still 2-3 mnths of wait till I get it hands-on). Super excited & looking forward for lots if toob rolling..... .


----------



## Monsterzero

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am about to enter into the realm of Glenn's OTL (still 2-3 mnths of wait till I get it hands-on). Super excited & looking forward for lots if toob rolling..... .


 Nice and welcome to the club. You will be the 2nd Glenn owner from India.


----------



## paramesh

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am about to enter into the realm of Glenn's OTL (still 2-3 mnths of wait till I get it hands-on). Super excited & looking forward for lots if toob rolling..... .


Welcome
Man Ashwin !! Great buy


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

paramesh said:


> Welcome
> Man Ashwin !! Great buy


Hmmmm....
Now I understand why I am the 2nd Glenn Owner from India..... hee hee hee...


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Monsterzero said:


> Nice and welcome to the club. You will be the 2nd Glenn owner from India.





Monsterzero said:


> Nice and welcome to the club. You will be the 2nd Glenn owner from India.


Thanks a lot for the warm welcome . My built is yet to start.... so till then tube/adapters shopping..... n eager wait....


----------



## 2359glenn

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Hmmmm....
> Now I understand why I am the 2nd Glenn Owner from India..... hee hee hee...



No actually the 3rd there has been one in India for years now.


----------



## chrisdrop

Are there any more in Europe ? There must be less active posters and owners out here ?!


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> Are there any more in Europe ? There must be less active posters and owners out here ?!



Oh yes Belgium , Italy , Greece , France ,


----------



## Celty

2359glenn said:


> Oh yes Belgium , Italy , Greece , France ,


You could do a world tour of Glenn amp locations


----------



## chrisdrop

2359glenn said:


> Oh yes Belgium , Italy , Greece , France ,


You must be proud of your babies all around the world, doing good for ears.


----------



## mordy

Could someone tell me the best way to straighten out a bent octal pin?
Look at the front pin of the middle tube (under the orange 6J5 designation):





My adapters are quite tight, and I don't want to force the tube into the socket. With the smaller and thinner pins on the 9pin tubes it was easy to straighten a bent pin using a needle nose pliers, but with the octal base I am worried about breaking off the pin if I use pliers.


----------



## A2029

mordy said:


> Could someone tell me the best way to straighten out a bent octal pin?
> Look at the front pin of the middle tube (under the orange 6J5 designation):
> 
> 
> ...



If you can get away with using it with the bent pin that would be best. If absolutely needed, one way to bend it is to use a strong pair of needle nose pliers to hold the pin at the base, then use another pair of pliers to gently bend from the other end of the pin.


----------



## mordy

A2029 said:


> If you can get away with using it with the bent pin that would be best. If absolutely needed, one way to bend it is to use a strong pair of needle nose pliers to hold the pin at the base, then use another pair of pliers to gently bend from the other end of the pin.


Thanks - you are mirroring my thoughts.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Kenny Wayne Sheppard sounding great on ye ole GOTL tonight  

Cheers, all!


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Kenny Wayne Sheppard sounding great on ye ole GOTL tonight
> 
> Cheers, all!




Nice!

What album(s)


----------



## Celty

I have an SMSL SU-8 DAC, which has paired very well with my current SS amp. But having committed to a Glenn OTL build, I am wondering how well it will compliment (or not) with a Glenn. What are your thoughts on an ideal (without going insane) DAC to go with a Glenn?


----------



## Monsterzero

Celty said:


> (without going insane)



You rang?


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero probably had this one in mind:




Lampizator Pacifica


----------



## Velozity

Celty said:


> I have an SMSL SU-8 DAC, which has paired very well with my current SS amp. But having committed to a Glenn OTL build, I am wondering how well it will compliment (or not) with a Glenn. What are your thoughts on an ideal (without going insane) DAC to go with a Glenn?




Certainly try what you have first.  The synergy with your DAC may be satisfactory to you.  Nevertheless, you will find that the GOTL deserves a good source and it may be hard not to go insane.  Don't be afraid to spend decent money on a DAC.  I have the Metrum Acoustics Amethyst and I personally would consider that an excellent starting point, but it's also over $1100.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

@Celty this hobby is a rabbit hole, just enjoy what you have first and try to get a loaner for home audition for any gear that you want to try with your GOTL. 

Having said that, I'm now on my 6th DAC, and this is end game for me. 

Audio-GD R2R-R7HE:


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Hi guys,
Does anyone has auditioned ADX5K & Hifiman Arya with tube amp. Adx5k being dynamic can’t go wrong wth toobs. But Arya being a planar needs high current. 
I recently was part of Arya loaner tour & really impressed by the sonic properties. 
Plz share your thoughts n experience. 
Rgds


----------



## Zachik

Velozity said:


> Certainly try what you have first.  The synergy with your DAC may be satisfactory to you.  Nevertheless, you will find that the GOTL deserves a good source and it may be hard not to go insane.  Don't be afraid to spend decent money on a DAC.  *I have the Metrum Acoustics Amethyst and I personally would consider that an excellent starting point, but it's also over $1100*.


Funny coincidence - I am selling my Metrum Amethyst for far less!!
See: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...s-dac-amp-lowered-price.923025/#post-15411565
(and I agree it is excellent DAC and works very well with my Glenn OTL)


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Monsterzero probably had this one in mind:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Go big,or go home...thats my mantra! 
@Gopher said that if he had loaned me this DAC music would've been ruined for me forever when I had to give it back. I tend to believe him.





UsoppNoKami said:


> just enjoy what you have first and try to get a loaner for home audition for any gear that you want to try with your GOTL.



Great advice.



ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Hi guys,
> Does anyone has auditioned ADX5K & Hifiman Arya with tube amp. Adx5k being dynamic can’t go wrong wth toobs. But Arya being a planar needs high current.
> I recently was part of Arya loaner tour & really impressed by the sonic properties.
> Plz share your thoughts n experience.
> Rgds



Glenn recommends a pair of 6336 tubes for low impedance and planar headphones. Ive tried the Empy on my GOTL and it sounded very nice.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Monsterzero said:


> Go big,or go home...thats my mantra!
> @Gopher said that if he had loaned me this DAC music would've been ruined for me forever when I had to give it back. I tend to believe him.
> 
> 
> ...



Agree, Glenn suggested those tubes for low z n planar. Actually i wanted to check the synergy since i am planning for a planar purchase shortly.


----------



## maxpudding (Jan 26, 2020)

Wondering if anyone had tried the schiit yggdrasil with GOTL? Haven't tried it yet (with GOTL) but read so many good reviews

Edit: ok UT had the GOTL with yggdrasil, he seemed satisfied with it


----------



## paramesh

maxpudding said:


> Wondering if anyone had tried the schiit yggdrasil with GOTL? Haven't tried it yet but read so many good reviews
> 
> Edit: ok UT had the GOTL with yggdrasil, he seemed satisfied with it


 Yggy ( version 1) has been a constant in the chain and pairs extremely well with most tube amps I tried. Had exceptional results with Teton and others. I will be trying the GOTL very soon with it. Will post results soon.


----------



## chrisdrop

maxpudding said:


> Wondering if anyone had tried the schiit yggdrasil with GOTL? Haven't tried it yet but read so many good reviews
> 
> Edit: ok UT had the GOTL with yggdrasil, he seemed satisfied with it



Not an answer, but - I am currently planning on a new DAC and debating heavily. I have read all the things. Yggy is highly regarded. FWIW - considering: Yggy, Holo Spring II KTE L3, Chord Qutest, (lesser-known) SW1X.

I went to hear some SW1Xs yesterday. The main things it told me are 1) a new DAC can make a very material difference, 2) He makes nice DACs, 3) I am not sure how any of the SW1X DACs would compare to any of the rest of the DACs I am considering. FWIW - the impact of moving from my current RME ADI II to any of the SW1X DACs, especially on speakers was jaw-dropping.


----------



## maxpudding (Jan 26, 2020)

paramesh said:


> Yggy ( version 1) has been a constant in the chain and pairs extremely well with most tube amps I tried. Had exceptional results with Teton and others. I will be trying the GOTL very soon with it. Will post results soon.



Nice, thank you, looking forward to it.



chrisdrop said:


> Not an answer, but - I am currently planning on a new DAC and debating heavily. I have read all the things. Yggy is highly regarded. FWIW - considering: Yggy, Holo Spring II KTE L3, Chord Qutest, (lesser-known) SW1X.
> 
> I went to hear some SW1Xs yesterday. The main things it told me are 1) a new DAC can make a very material difference, 2) He makes nice DACs, 3) I am not sure how any of the SW1X DACs would compare to any of the rest of the DACs I am considering. FWIW - the impact of moving from my current RME ADI II to any of the SW1X DACs, especially on speakers was jaw-dropping.



I currently own the RME ADI II too, it’s a decent DAC, but not an endgame for me. I've listened to the yggy (not with GOTL), and the sound was beautiful, it was more detailed with excellent soundstage, and perhaps it'll sound even better after a couple of days energized

I’ve read many good things about the SW1X, and I wish I could find someone in Malaysia who has one.

But, if you had the chance to audition the yggy, I’d love to hear your thoughts about it vs the SW1X.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

maxpudding said:


> Nice, thank you, looking forward to it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hello fellow Msian 

Sifu @UntilThen ran the Yggy with GOTL. A wealth of posts by him.


----------



## maxpudding

UsoppNoKami said:


> Hello fellow Msian
> 
> Sifu @UntilThen ran the Yggy with GOTL. A wealth of posts by him.



Hi there 

Currently going through his yggy+GOTL posts


----------



## whirlwind

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Agree, Glenn suggested those tubes for low z n planar. Actually i wanted to check the synergy since i am planning for a planar purchase shortly.



If planars are your choice of sound....maybe consider an SET amp from Glenn.
The 6336 tubes give more current in the OTL and they sound good indeed....but still behind the SET amp, GEL3N or another version.


----------



## whirlwind

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am about to enter into the realm of Glenn's OTL (still 2-3 mnths of wait till I get it hands-on). Super excited & looking forward for lots if toob rolling..... .



Wow, worked your way through the queue quickly.


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> Not an answer, but - I am currently planning on a new DAC and debating heavily. I have read all the things. Yggy is highly regarded. FWIW - considering: Yggy, Holo Spring II KTE L3, Chord Qutest, (lesser-known) SW1X.
> 
> I went to hear some SW1Xs yesterday. The main things it told me are 1) a new DAC can make a very material difference, 2) He makes nice DACs, 3) I am not sure how any of the SW1X DACs would compare to any of the rest of the DACs I am considering. FWIW - the impact of moving from my current RME ADI II to any of the SW1X DACs, especially on speakers was jaw-dropping.



So you like the SW1X dac.
I like it mostly run SPDIF in from a CD player.  I think it sounds great but haven't put it up against anything else.
Are you going to buy it?


----------



## Monsterzero

Perhaps @Zachik and/or @Hansotek can chime in on the Lampizator Amber 3,which is competitively priced w/ Yggy.
The Amber 3 is the little brother of my TRP and the sound is phenomenal.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Perhaps @Zachik and/or @Hansotek can chime in on the Lampizator Amber 3,which is competitively priced w/ Yggy.
> The Amber 3 is the little brother of my TRP and the sound is phenomenal.


I have only auditioned the Yggy *briefly* at CanJam shows, with Schiit amps, and at show floor conditions, so I cannot comment on how it compares.
As for the Amber 3 paired with the GOTL - all I can say is: I used to use the Metrum Amethyst DAC which is VERY nice. After A/B on the GOTL - I purchased the Amber and have the Amethyst for sale (PM me if interested!).  Now, to keep it in perspective - the Amber cost approx. 2.5 times more, so both DACs are priced correctly relative to one another. Also, the Amethyst is MUCH smaller in size. If space and/or budget won't allow for the Amber - I truly think the Amethyst is a good DAC to be considered.


----------



## Monsterzero

Did anyone in this thread win either or both of the auctions on eBay for the quad of Fivre 6J5s? If so I'd like to buy 2 of them from you. Missed both by a few dollars.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Did anyone in this thread win either or both of the auctions on eBay for the quad of Fivre 6J5s? If so I'd like to buy 2 of them from you. Missed both by a few dollars.


I am betting @L0rdGwyn is the culprit...


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> I am betting @L0rdGwyn is the culprit...


 Yeah my thoughts exactly!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I am innocent!!!  I have those Fivres on my shopping list, probably the last 6J5 I am after, but my shopping list is so, so long...you bet I had my eye on them, but I passed.


----------



## chrisdrop

2359glenn said:


> Are you going to buy it?


I am *very* seriously considering it. I need to sort out how many organs to part with . 

The amp sounds fantastic as I sit here typing. I have had the same valves, etc for the longest of any configuration and have no desire to roll at the minute. I am sure that will change.

I am very enthusiastic about what a new DAC can bring. I didn't really expect the impact to be as material as it seems it can be ... all you Lampi fans know already!


----------



## leftside

First quad Lamberto sold went for $175? I bid on the first quad and lost out - glad I declined his second chance offer! Other 2 quads were close to half that.


----------



## Hansotek

Monsterzero said:


> Perhaps @Zachik and/or @Hansotek can chime in on the Lampizator Amber 3,which is competitively priced w/ Yggy.
> The Amber 3 is the little brother of my TRP and the sound is phenomenal.



I feel like the Amber is more spacious, more detailed, more transparent and a touch more organic overall. Relative to my Hugo 2, the Yggy A2 is a moderate, but noticeable improvement. The Amber 3 is a much, much more dramatic improvement.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> First quad Lamberto sold went for $175? I bid on the first quad and lost out - glad I declined his second chance offer! Other 2 quads were close to half that.


 Yeah the final quad ended @ 7am,which is much too early for this night person. I bid over what the previous quad sold for ($78.00) and came in 2nd.


----------



## Celty

Thanks for the input on DACs guys, most appreciated. Particularly to wait and see how my SU-8 does. I am not planning on an immediate purchase, but am trying to educate myself on good options. I have no idea how long it will be before my Glenn is done, I suppose the wait will be good for my capacity for patience  . Anyone have experience with the Musical Paradise MP-D1 MK3 or the DENAFRIPS ARES II R2R DAC?

In general is the recommended DAC type for a Glenn OTL a Solid State, R2R, or Tube design?


----------



## Monsterzero

Celty said:


> Anyone have experience with the Musical Paradise MP-D1 MK3 or the DENAFRIPS ARES II R2R DAC?



I used to own the Vinshine R2R Ref which is essentially the same as the Ares,according to Alvin of Denafrips/Vinshine. It was a very nice sounding DAC,but it simply couldnt compete with the Lampi.

In other news,im in a state of shock. I just cant believe he is gone. RIP!


----------



## Celty

Monsterzero said:


> I used to own the Vinshine R2R Ref which is essentially the same as the Ares,according to Alvin of Denafrips/Vinshine. It was a very nice sounding DAC,but it simply couldnt compete with the Lampi.
> 
> In other news,im in a state of shock. I just cant believe he is gone. RIP!


Even more tragically, his 13 year old daughter was also reportedly on board and died. Horrible. His youngest daughter was born in June.


----------



## Celty

Monsterzero said:


> I used to own the Vinshine R2R Ref which is essentially the same as the Ares,according to Alvin of Denafrips/Vinshine. It was a very nice sounding DAC,but it simply couldnt compete with the Lampi.


Unfortunately the Lampi would exceed my budget by a considerable margin haha.


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Hello fellow Msian
> 
> Sifu @UntilThen ran the Yggy with GOTL. A wealth of posts by him.



Yggy is the tree of life. It will rain fruits on you all year round. 

I'm amazed I still have this picture of Yggy and GOTL with the New Year's greetings 2018. Now it's over to @paramesh to enjoy this combination. Remember.... fruits and lots of it !


----------



## maxpudding (Jan 26, 2020)

Thanks for the Lampi amber 3 recommendation @Monsterzero 

@chrisdrop you might need to listen to the lampi as well lol


----------



## Monsterzero

maxpudding said:


> Thanks for the Lampi amber 3 recommendation @Monsterzero
> 
> @chrisdrop you might need to listen to the lampi as well lol


 You might want to contact @Gopher and see who he has that takes care of Europe and SE Asia as far as loaners go.


----------



## Monsterzero

Celty said:


> Unfortunately the Lampi would exceed my budget by a considerable margin haha.


 Also contact @Gopher . Lampizator offers an attractive trade-up policy,so they might have a good deal available for a past generation DAC.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jan 28, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> Not an answer, but - I am currently planning on a new DAC and debating heavily. I have read all the things. Yggy is highly regarded (----). FWIW - considering: Yggy, Holo Spring II KTE L3, Chord Qutest, (lesser-known) SW1X.
> 
> I went to hear some SW1Xs yesterday. The main things it told me are 1) a new DAC can make a very material difference, 2) He makes nice DACs, 3) I am not sure how any of the SW1X DACs would compare to any of the rest of the DACs I am considering. FWIW - the impact of moving from my current RME ADI II to any of the SW1X DACs, especially on speakers was jaw-dropping.


That's interesting, never heard of the SW1X DAC 3 before. Do you know about anyone who has done any sort of comparison or words about it vs. the Lampizator Amber 3? And what kind of general price are we looking at? I didn't see the prices on their website.

Oh, and I read on their website something about a "flexible home loan policy" do you know anything about that?

Also a little pointer - mention of the above linked "friends" website is strictly disallowed by the moderators here, so you're just lucky they haven't happened to notice your linking to it.


----------



## UntilThen

DACs are rather personal and it plays a very important part in your chain. Yggdrasil and Holo Spring II KTE L3 are pretty much at the top of the tree without making you bankrupt. Any of these 2 dacs could well serve as the building block of your retirement system. There are of course other dac(s) that are just as desirable. Yates will tell you there's no dac like the Terminator and UppsNoKami will tell you it's the Audio Gd r2r-r7he.  Torq has pretty much a good handle on dacs' impressions. It's a pity he gave up updating the Head-Fi site for another site. 

Anyway I digress ...


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Jan 28, 2020)

While I'm on my 6th (and final) DAC , I did get to audition the Chord Hugo TT2 + Mscaler side by side with Audio-GD Master-11S (BurrBrown PCM1704UK) , and I ended up buying AGD. Later on, I heard the Chord Dave + bluMscaler... I ended up buying the R7HE. According to the other site, I am an idiot who enjoys rolling in warm poo 

Anyway @DecentLevi - link to SW1X prices here:

http://sw1xad.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/SW1X_UK_price_list_2020.pdf


----------



## Marutks

UntilThen said:


> Yggdrasil and Holo Spring II KTE L3 are pretty much at the top of the tree



Yggdrasil's measurements are not good.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...measurements-of-schiit-yggdrasil-v2-dac.3607/


----------



## UntilThen (Jan 28, 2020)

Marutks said:


> Yggdrasil's measurements are not good.
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...measurements-of-schiit-yggdrasil-v2-dac.3607/



May I direct you to read this.
https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=42961

To quote just one of the post .... although you should read all the posts. 

_This is the DAC that Jim Smith uses in his reference system. The author of "Get Better Sound". I flew down to Atlanta last summer to consult with him on my system, and to hear what his sounded like. I was skeptical when I saw this $2,300 DAC feeding some amazing equipment, but I must say that I was stunned. To this day, I have not heard a more emotionally involving system. The true pleasure that this hobby is supposed to bring cannot be measured on a graph._


----------



## Xcalibur255

Marutks said:


> Yggdrasil's measurements are not good.
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...measurements-of-schiit-yggdrasil-v2-dac.3607/



Trusting measurements is all well and good, each person decides his own priorities, but if you spend any amount of time observing the behavior of people on that forum you should quickly realize that they are anything but objective.  The groupthink over there is almost cult-like.

Heck, who decided you have to *be* objective in this hobby?  Just do what you enjoy, and don't rely on other people to tell you what that might be.  I know that's easy to say and often hard to do, we have to start from some point of reference after all and recommendations are the natural place to begin.  But....... if you just try a few things and trust your gut then eventually you will develop your own clear sense of what you want.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 28, 2020)

I am going to hop on my soap box here for a second on the measurements stuff.

I was once a believer in the measurements, not in all respects, but at least when it came to DACs (tube amps were given a free pass).  That all went away when I had the Amber 3 on loan and did some rigorous A/B testing vs some of the well-measuring SS DACs promoted on ASR.  I can almost guarantee the Lampizator Amber 3 does not measure well, but the subjective improvement in sound over the low-distortion ASR-endorsed SS DACs was astounding.  That is not explained by any conventional measurements that I am aware of.  Boutique companies like Audio Note and SW1X essentially say that the measurements are not an indicator of good sound.  Peter Qvortrup of Audio Note has gone as far as to say that the dogmatic use of measurements as a benchmark for audio products is one of the worst things that has happened to the industry.  He is something of a divisive figure, but I think there is some truth to what he says based on my personal experience.

On the other hand, you cannot fault someone for trying to find an objective way to assess the performance of a product for the sake of not being overcharged for "snake oil", which is admittedly a problem in the consumer audio industry.  I like ASR, I spend some time over there and there are several very knowledgeable and friendly members.  But the conversation is purely scientific, there is no room for subjectivity.  The best argument that can be made for what you are hearing there is a true blind A/B test, which most audiophiles are not doing, myself included.  What I don't like is a side effect of the reviews being done at ASR: it has spawned an army of armchair engineers who use the numbers to attack some audio equipment manufacturers despite having very little knowledge themselves.  In certain circumstances it might be warranted, but a majority of the time it is not.  For example, what if ASR were to review the Amber 3?  Highly unlikely it would measure well and Lampizator would be lambasted for being a manufacturer of snake oil products (they are already criticized as such on ASR).  But anyone who has had a chance to listen to the Amber 3 knows that it is a good sounding DAC and much better than the low-distortion Topping gear ASR is very fond of.  I hope that some day there is a metric that does accurately predict listening enjoyment, but SINAD is not it, right now it does not seem to exist.

Also, anyone who is concerned about the measurements probably should not be listening to tube amplifiers - they will almost always have higher distortion than their SS counterparts - but, again, the lived experience is very different than what the measurements indicate.  IMO, there is also more enjoyment to be had in owning a tube amplifier beyond the sound, whether that be aesthetics, collecting, learning about an interesting old technology, historical context, etc.

My point is, the measurements do not tell the whole story, just another data point.  This is coming from someone who has a degree in the physical sciences and works in a highly research-driven field, so I am biased toward following the hard data, but someting isn't being captured.  As ususal, just my opinion, YMMV, yadda yadda yadda


----------



## chrisdrop (Jan 28, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> That's interesting, never heard of the SW1X DAC 3 before.



FYI - I plan to start Started a SW1X thread, so I will clone some of these questions and answers there. 

On _this_ thread, know at least one user of an SW1X DAC and (at least) one other who is going to get one soon.



DecentLevi said:


> Do you know about anyone who has done any sort of comparison or words about it vs. the Lampizator Amber 3?


I am likely to do this. I have seen one comment on another forum comparing the two brands but with differing older DACs I believe. They compared favourably in the one posting person's opinion. The post was not attempting to review/ compare them but making casual happy comments.



DecentLevi said:


> And what kind of general price are we looking at? I didn't see the prices on their website.


You have seen the prices. They are not inexpensive, and as expensive as you want, similar to other companies. They have products at levels with Lampzator products. They have many "parts options". I saw many actual parts and you can go nuts on exotic parts if you like, at exotic costs.



DecentLevi said:


> Also a little pointer - mention of the above linked "friends" website is strictly disallowed by the moderators here, so you're just lucky they haven't happened to notice your linking to it.


I have since been contacted and the post has been duly edited. I was unaware, but whatever policies the head-fi admins want to enforce are fine by me.



DecentLevi said:


> Oh, and I read on their website something about a "flexible home loan policy" do you know anything about that?.


I think that is difficult from UK to US intrinsically. Presently they have a 14d return policy noted in their terms.

*EDIT: Important to note; the DACs sounded pretty awesome. *

To bend this post to at least _somewhat_ Glenn-amp related, here are two pics of my amp and one of SW1Xs DACs, all open so you can see the insides. You can actually see more the amp than the DAC anyhow!

Before anyone worries, everything may look precariously placed, but all came home safe and sound. At no point was there any amp danger.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 28, 2020)

As a follow-up to my last post, the gears have started turning again on the drive home, yet another project  all hypothetical right now.

I find the objectivist vs. subjectivist audiophile war pretty fascinating, it has been stirred up quite a bit the past few years with ASR reviewing so many audiophile products, especially DACs. I have heard rumors that things have nearly come to blows between prominent members of both sides, unfortunately, so it certainly is a contentious topic.  This idea is not new or innovative, I'll have to see to what extent it has been done before and if it is worth my time, but it might be an interesting to do an experiment: a true randomized controlled trial to compare A) very well-measuring DAC and B) poor measuring but subjectively great sounding DAC.

Here is my mental draft of the experimental design: I will build a plain Jane box with nothing but a switch on the front and a switch on the back and holes for wiring.  Inside this box will be a top-of-the-line measuring DAC (something like the RME ADI-2) and a not-so-great measuring but great sounding DAC (my upcoming SW1X DAC would probably fit the bill nicely since it is a NOS R2R tube output design).  Into these two DACs I would play the exact same source material level-matched, something very well-recorded/mastered that everybody knows (NOT "Hotel California", for the love of God).  The switch on the front will toggle which DAC feeds the output.  The switch on the back will disable one of the DACs for the control group.  Careful consideration will need to be taken as to which headphones and amplifier will be used.

I will then take this box setup with me to Head-Fi meets around the region.  Willing participants would be randomly assigned to the experimental or control group.  This will be blinded so each participant does not know which group they are in.  They will be asked to listen to the source material and switch back and forth between the two DACs for an allotted period of time and determine if there is an audible difference or no difference.  If there is a difference, they will be asked which is preferred.  If the participant is assigned to the control group, the switch on the back will be flipped and the front switch will play the same DAC in both positions.

Once a large enough sample has been taken, some analysis would determine if there is a statistically significant difference between the two groups and we can reject the null hypothesis.  That is, reject that both DACs sound the same and determine if there is a statistically significant preference for one DAC over the other.

This is the type of thing that would hold water over at ASR.  It may just confound things further, but if there was a statistically significant preference for the poor measuring DAC, that would call into question the validity of using measurements like SINAD to evaluate sound.  Then again, if there is a greater preference of the better-measuring DAC, that strengthens the argument for using these measurements.  Of course, if the data does not allow us to reject the null hypothesis, then we are in the same position as we are now and I have wasted a lot of my free time 

Anyway, I know this is crazy, just an idea.


----------



## Celty (Jan 28, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am going to hop on my soap box here for a second on the measurements stuff.
> 
> I was once a believer in the measurements, not in all respects, but at least when it came to DACs (tube amps were given a free pass).  That all went away when I had the Amber 3 on loan and did some rigorous A/B testing vs some of the well-measuring SS DACs promoted on ASR.  I can almost guarantee the Lampizator Amber 3 does not measure well, but the subjective improvement in sound over the low-distortion ASR-endorsed SS DACs was astounding.  That is not explained by any conventional measurements that I am aware of.  Boutique companies like Audio Note and SW1X essentially say that the measurements are not an indicator of good sound.  Peter Qvortrup of Audio Note has gone as far as to say that the dogmatic use of measurements as a benchmark for audio products is one of the worst things that has happened to the industry.  He is something of a divisive figure, but I think there is some truth to what he says based on my personal experience.
> 
> ...


I'm a fan of ASR and of course this forum. I think there is a place for both perspectives as well. Tolerance is a great thing  , and I agree with your thoughts. I was reading a review and the comments of an xDuoo TA-20 tube amp on that site (of course it did not measure well), and a member had posted about his own experiences with the amp and how much enjoyment he was getting from his setup. I was surprised to see a response by another member really jumping it, basically insulting his equipment as not being hi-fi and nothing more than a distortion box, etc, etc.

Made me hot that this guy would try to bang on another guy's choices like that, so I responded and there was a bit of an exchange, lol. Sadly the person is a manufacturer of SS amps and DACs, which made his comments even less appropriate in my view.

In any event, I like getting all perspectives, and making my mind up on equipment balancing those opinions against my own preferences. Do I realize that tube amps don't measure well and will get knocked by the strict constructionist "objectivists"? Sure, I understand their view. Do I still want the Glenn OTL I am in the queue for? Oh my gosh yes, I will be so excited to hear when my build is near starting!


----------



## Celty

L0rdGwyn said:


> As a follow-up to my last post, the gears have started turning again on the drive home, yet another project  all hypothetical right now.
> 
> I find the objectivist vs. subjectivist audiophile war pretty fascinating, it has been stirred up quite a bit the past few years with ASR reviewing so many audiophile products, especially DACs. I have heard rumors that things have nearly come to blows between prominent members of both sides, unfortunately, so it certainly is a contentious topic.  This idea is not new or innovative, I'll have to see to what extent it has been done before and if it is worth my time, but it might be an interesting to do an experiment: a true randomized controlled trial to compare A) very well-measuring DAC and B) poor measuring but subjectively great sounding DAC.
> 
> ...


HA it would be fantastic, and I would truly be fascinated to see the results.


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> To bend this post to at least _somewhat_ Glenn-amp related, here are two pics of my amp and one of SW1Xs DACs, all open so you can see the insides. You can actually see more the amp than the DAC anyhow!


Chris - what is the RCA interconnect showing in your photos?  Just curious...


----------



## UntilThen

Celty said:


> I'm a fan of ASR and of course this forum. I think there is a place for both perspectives as well. Tolerance is a great thing  , and I agree with your thoughts. I was reading a review and the comments of an xDuoo TA-20 tube amp on that site (of course it did not measure well), and a member had posted about his own experiences with the amp and how much enjoyment he was getting from his setup. I was surprised to see a response by another member really jumping it, basically insulting his equipment as not being hi-fi and nothing more than a distortion box, etc, etc.
> 
> Made me hot that this guy would try to bang on another guy's choices like that, so I responded and there was a bit of an exchange, lol. Sadly the person is a manufacturer of SS amps and DACs, which made his comments even less appropriate in my view.
> 
> In any event, I like getting all perspectives, and making my mind up on equipment balancing those opinions against my own preferences. Do I realize that tube amps don't measure well and will get knocked by the strict constructionist "objectivists"? Sure, I understand their view. Do I still want the Glenn OTL I am in the queue for? Oh my gosh yes, I will be so excited to hear when my build is near starting!



Have a read of Jude’s post.  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread.766347/page-573#post-14294906


----------



## Velozity (Jan 28, 2020)

Taking a break from DAC talk for a minute...

Time for an update on my 6C4 Challenge.  After going back and forth between 6SN7s and dual-6C4s, I have made the determination that I will soon be leaving the single-tube, dual-triode camp and joining the dual-tube, single-triode camp.  The results are just too good to ignore.  I'm not a fan of adapters but damn these little tubes sound good.  Sadly, I just can't find a 6SN7 equivalent tube in my collection that I prefer better.  There are a few I will keep for collection purposes, but for the most part all my daily listening will be with dual-6C4 tubes as my driver.

In a short amount of time I have amassed no fewer than 30 or so (several duplicates) 6C4-type tubes for this challenge.  I have 10 different styles on hand, and one more unicorn on the way.  I searched for the rarer types with unique construction qualities, so you won't find the common RCA and Raytheon samples in this group.  Here a few pictures with one of each tube displayed together.


(From left to right):  Sylvania 6C4 w/ triple mica, GE JG-6100 with triple mica, MOV CV133 with welded plates, Mullard 6C4WA/CV4058 with box plates






(From left to right):  Sylvania JHS-6C4 tall bottle copper rods, Brimar CV133 / L77, Sylvania 6C4 w/ triple mica






(From left to right):  Sylvania JHS-6C4W short bottle, Tung-Sol 6C4 gray plate, National Union JNU-6C4 black plate, Sylvania JHS-6C4 tall bottle copper rods






(From left to right):  Mullard 6C4WA/CV4058 with box plates, MOV CV133 charcoal plates (non-welded), Sylvania JHS-6C4W short bottle


----------



## Velozity (Jan 29, 2020)

6C4 sound impressions...


*National Union JNU-6C4, circa 1945-*
The first of the 6C4 tubes I listened to.  I compared them directly to my NU 6SN7 black glass.  Immediately noticed a quieter noise floor and better separation of instruments.  I would later find this to be a common trait amongst all the 6C4 types I tried.  The sound signature was on par with the 6SN7 variant in most ways.  I think the 6C4 was a little on the cooler side, but the increase in detail was noticeable.  These are very nice tubes and if they were the only ones I owned I would be quite happy.  But alas there's more...


*Tung-Sol 6C4-*
After listening to the NU, I wasn’t as impressed with this one.  Aside from the quiet noise floor and good separation, I can’t say I prefer this tube pair over the Tung Sol 6SN7GT variants I compared them against.  Namely, the BGRP and mouse ears are better.  Still, the TS 6C4 is a good pair of tubes and at least as good as the TS 6SN7GTB and definitely better than the current production Russian ones.


*GE JG-6100, triple-mica, black plate-*
This is the tube that had the “drop the mic” moment for me.  This tube in a matched pair is on par with the TS BGRP.  Yep, I said it.  In my system the two sound VERY similar.  In fact I give the edge to the 6C4.  On top of that, this tube is uber quiet, apparently thanks to the triple mica construction.  This tube is a detail and transparency monster, but not warm or “lush”.  There is a bit of an edge to the instruments that I really like and when paired with a warmer power tube it is an excellent complement.  When paired with the Bendix 6080WB be prepared to get lost in the music. 

*Sylvania 6C4 triple-mica, gray plate-*
Pretty much similar impression to the GE on first listen, but not quite as impressive.  Will need to spend more time with it to pick out specific differences but their construction is very similar.  The Sylvie has some supports between the top two micas that aren’t present on the GE and it has gray plates instead of black.


*Sylvania JHS-6C4 tall bottle copper rods-*
Like the Tung-Sol 6C4, this tube was just ok compared to others on this list.  This would be a bench player, not in the starting lineup.


*Sylvania JHS-6C4W short bottle-*
These are in pristine condition and brand NOS, the packages had never been opened.  They were slightly microphonic though so I’m going to give them a little heat time to see if they settle down and reevaluate them.  Aside from that they struck me as similar to the National Unions so definitely a keeper.


*Mullard 6C4WA / CV4058-*
Ok now we’re getting into the big boy leagues.  All of the European tubes pretty much trounce the USA tubes except for the JG-6100 which is a hero.  The Mullard 6C4WA has the same “Mullard” house sound as it’s other variants.  This is the third Mullard I’ve owned.  I first had the CV4004 (12AX7 equivalent) in my Jade amp and it was the best driver in that setup.  Then I got an ECC33 to use in the Glenn and it’s probably the best 6SN7 I have depending on power tube.  I say that because of the warmth Mullard tubes provide.  Mullard plus GEC 6AS7G is a warm bowl of tomato basil soup in front of a fireplace on a 30 degree night.  Mullard plus Tung-Sol 5998 is a smooth milkshake on the beach on a 80 degree afternoon.  This tube is holographic like no other, though a bit laid back.  There is a liquidity to this tube that smooths out the edges and presents everything very well.  Equal to the ECC33 but quieter and with better separation.  With smooth jazz and ambient electronica this is an endgame 6C4 tube.


*Brimar CV133 / L77-*
I would say this one is similar to the GE JG-6100 but with even more clarity.  This is particularly evident on acoustic music.  I can really visualize fingers strumming strings with this tube.  The Brimar is everything the GE is plus increased soundstage.  They are not quite as quiet though.


*MOV CV133 welded black plate and MOV CV133 charcoal plate (non-welded)-*
I’m grouping these last two together because I haven’t yet been able to distinguish any difference in sound.  This is as good as it gets in 6C4.  I also have GEC CV133 coming that may dethrone it, but as of now these tubes are king.  The MOV is an all-around superstar and is my favorite.  They are as silent as the GE and as liquid as the Mullard, with the detail of the Brimar.  The vocals with this tube are amazeballs.  It’s all there, staging, clarity, depth, detail, and as an added bonus, impact!   It’s very easy to listen to for an extended period of time.  It plays well with all of my power tubes, and is particularly impressive with the added gain of the Tung-Sol 7236.  Right now they’re in the GOTL paired with Bendix 6080WB graphites, and I’m sitting back listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn giving me a private concert.  This is livin’!


----------



## leftside

Great haul @Velozity! I also have some on order from my favorite seller in the UK. I'll be using them in the 6J5 sockets in my amp (Deyan is making me 6C4 to 6J5 adapters). New year resolutions be damned! 

Also getting these adapters made for existing tubes in my posession: 
5693 to 6J5
EL3N to 6J5
76 to 6J5


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> Trusting measurements is all well and good, each person decides his own priorities, but if you spend any amount of time observing the behavior of people on that forum you should quickly realize that they are anything but objective.  The groupthink over there is almost cult-like.
> 
> Heck, who decided you have to *be* objective in this hobby?  Just do what you enjoy, and don't rely on other people to tell you what that might be.  I know that's easy to say and often hard to do, we have to start from some point of reference after all and recommendations are the natural place to begin.  But....... if you just try a few things and trust your gut then eventually you will develop your own clear sense of what you want.


In the beginning of this hobby I did not think that it would be possible to agree on how something sounds given all the variables in personal taste and equipment, but over the years I have come to appreciate that you can arrive at a consensus regarding certain tubes and equipment.
Even more than that, after following forum members over time I have found people who hear things the same way I do. This is very helpful in following recommendations and tips.
I have learnt to trust my ears, especially rewarding since it has led me to discover very inexpensive great sounding tubes that rival those expensive ones that “everybody knows” are the best sounding ones.
Measurements? Which measurements? I just go by the sound.


Velozity said:


> Taking a break from DAC talk for a minute...
> 
> Time for an update on my 6C4 Challenge.  After going back and forth between 6SN7s and dual-6C4s, I have made the determination that I will soon be leaving the single-tube, dual-triode camp and joining the dual-tube, single-triode camp.  The results are just too good to ignore.  I'm not a fan of adapters but damn these little tubes sound good.  Sadly, I just can't find a 6SN7 equivalent tube in my collection that I prefer better.  There are a few I will keep for collection purposes, but for the most part all my daily listening will be with dual-6C4 tubes as my driver.
> 
> ...


Great - I am doing something similar with metal and glass 6C5 and 6J5 variants and so far I have a similar amount of them. Most of them sound very good and most are very inexpensive. There is no doubt in my mind that a pair of single triodes sound better than the same type dual triode.
Did you come across a favorite tube yet?
And what is missing is a shootout between a pair of the 6C/J5 tubes and a pair of the 6C4 tubes....
Some of the early 6C5 tubes are quite heavy, like little hand grenades lol. Let's pull the pin and throw them out there and see what happens!


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Great haul @Velozity! I also have some on order from my favorite seller in the UK. I'll be using them in the 6J5 sockets in my amp (Deyan is making me 6C4 to 6J5 adapters). New year resolutions be damned!
> 
> Also getting these adapters made for existing tubes in my posession:
> 5693 to 6J5
> ...


You may want to consider EL11 to 6J5 if you have such tubes.


----------



## Monsterzero

PSA: An incredible looking pair of Verite closed are for sale. Im guessing this particular pair sounds extra good with the blues.
No affiliation.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> You may want to consider EL11 to 6J5 if you have such tubes.


I already have EL11 to C3g adapters. I'll have to ask @A2029 if he thinks my amp will be more suited to EL11 in C3g sockets or in 6J5 sockets?


----------



## A2029

leftside said:


> I already have EL11 to C3g adapters. I'll have to ask @A2029 if he thinks my amp will be more suited to EL11 in C3g sockets or in 6J5 sockets?



The EL11 to C3G adapters that you have should work well


----------



## chrisdrop

Zachik said:


> Chris - what is the RCA interconnect showing in your photos?  Just curious...


I _believe_ it was one of Slawa's multi-core silver interconnects. It certainly belonged to him and think it is the sort of thing he makes. 

My interconnects were too short for our somewhat haphazard setup...


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Jan 29, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> As a follow-up to my last post, the gears have started turning again on the drive home, yet another project  all hypothetical right now.
> 
> I find the objectivist vs. subjectivist audiophile war pretty fascinating, it has been stirred up quite a bit the past few years with ASR reviewing so many audiophile products, especially DACs. I have heard rumors that things have nearly come to blows between prominent members of both sides, unfortunately, so it certainly is a contentious topic.  This idea is not new or innovative, I'll have to see to what extent it has been done before and if it is worth my time, but it might be an interesting to do an experiment: a true randomized controlled trial to compare A) very well-measuring DAC and B) poor measuring but subjectively great sounding DAC.
> 
> ...



Blind testing is a pretty popular topic of discussion on Head-fi right now (well, more so than usual I think).  I find it fascinating, more and more as time passes.  However, what I find most interesting is how strongly people focus on only one or two facets of this and effectively ignore others.  I am 100% convinced at this point that the best person to do blind tests and comparisons is somebody with a psychology degree.  Specifically somebody involved on the research side of human mental behavior and how our brain twists and distortions our perception of things.  The more I learn about this subject the more convinced I am that you cannot trust your own short term (emphasis here) comparison impressions of anything *at all* be it related to audio or any number of other things.  Our subconscious mind actively works to alter our perceptions and will directly color impressions while making comparisons.  This happens outside of your conscious awareness.  I believe one of the reasons why many double blind tests reveal that people cannot reliably tell the difference between different components isn't because there is no difference, but because it is the nature of the subconscious part of our minds to "blend" and normalize these short term impressions.  The reasons why our brains do this is complex and a very fascinating subject of study.  I don't think enough weight is given this school of thought for it's potential to contaminate the results of these blind tests.

I only trust my long term listening impressions now.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jan 29, 2020)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Blind testing is a pretty popular topic of discussion on Head-fi right now (well, more so than usual I think).  I find it fascinating, more and more as time passes.  However, what I find most interesting is how strongly people focus on only one or two facets of this and effectively ignore others.  I am 100% convinced at this point that the best person to do blind tests and comparisons is somebody with a psychology degree.  Specifically somebody involved on the research side of human mental behavior and how our brain twists and distortions our perception of things.  The more I learn about this subject the more convinced I am that you cannot trust your own short term (emphasis here) comparison impressions of anything *at all* be it related to audio or any number of other things.  Our subconscious mind actively works to alter our perceptions and will directly color impressions while making comparisons.  This happens outside of your conscious awareness.  I believe one of the reasons why many double blind tests reveal that people cannot reliably tell the difference between different components isn't because there is no difference, but because it is the nature of the subconscious part of our minds to "blend" and normalize these short term impressions.  The reasons why our brains do this is complex and a very fascinating subject of study.  I don't think enough weight is given this school of thought for it's potential to contaminate the results of these blind tests.
> 
> I only trust my long term listening impressions now.



What you've described is a reservation I have about undertaking this type of experiment.  Even if there are differences, participants may not be able to pick them out during a short listening session.  The human echoic memory only lasts only a few seconds, it isn't very reliable.  And like you said, our feelings, perceptions, experiences will taint our impressions.  For example, what if the participants were not made aware that they could be in the control group and both DACs could be exactly the same?  There would be many false positives, audiophiles saying they could hear a difference if only because they _want _to be able hear a difference, everyone wants to have golden ears  the purpose of the control group is to ensure that any differences heard are legitimate, if there isn't a statistically significant difference between the experimental and control groups, then any differences heard between the DACs by participants aren't consistent enough to be considered audible.  That is probably the most likely outcome, which isn't a very interesting result.

If long term listening is a more reliable way to pick out the differences, then this box would have to be loaned to participants for a prolonged period of time and they would have to pinky promise not to peek inside.  That's obviously impractical, it is much faster to generate a THD+N plot and call it a day.  We need to find someone working on their PhD to make this the subject of their thesis 

I can't say if I'll go through with this, if I think the difference between the SW1X DAC and the well-measuring SS affair is very easy to pick out in a 10-15 minute listening session, then maybe I still will.  Will have to run a little pilot on my regular test subjects (AKA my family).


----------



## mordy (Jan 29, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> What you've described is a reservation I have about undertaking this type of experiment.  Even if there are differences, participants may not be able to pick them out during a short listening session.  The human echoic memory only lasts only a few seconds, it isn't very reliable.  And like you said, our feelings, perceptions, experiences will taint our impressions.  For example, what if the participants were not made aware that they could be in the control group and both DACs could be exactly the same?  There would be many false positives, audiophiles saying they could hear a difference if only because they _want _to be able hear a difference, everyone wants to have golden ears  the purpose of the control group is to ensure that any differences heard are legitimate, if there isn't a statistically significant difference between the experimental and control groups, then any differences heard between the DACs by participants aren't consistent enough to be considered audible.  That is probably the most likely outcome, which isn't a very interesting result.
> 
> If long term listening is a more reliable way to pick out the differences, then this box would have to be loaned to participants for a prolonged period of time and they would have to pinky promise not to peek inside.  That's obviously impractical, it is much faster to generate a THD+N plot and call it a day.  We need to find someone working on their PhD to make this the subject of their thesis
> 
> I can't say if I'll go through with this, if I think the difference between the SW1X DAC and the well-measuring SS affair is very easy to pick out in a 10-15 minute listening session, then maybe I still will.  Will have to run a little pilot on my regular test subjects (AKA my family).


My personal experience has been that oftentimes a first impression of how a tube combination sounds can be misleading.
Something what sounds great at first may change into something with a niggling deficit, many times taking hours of listening to quantify and figure out.
There are people that claim that they can tell within a couple of minutes how something sounds and that that impression is lasting.
Maybe they can, but I surely cannot.
Add to this that many tubes need time to warm up and stabilize to sound their best, sometimes 1/2 hour, and IMHO you need a lot of time to do a proper comparison, especially so if the tubes sound very close to each other.
It all adds up to the tube mystique......


----------



## Monsterzero

I can share an interesting story on this topic.
In my den system I use an old refurbished laptop out from USB into a Modi 3 into a vintage Onkyo 100wpc receiver into a pair of vintage Rectilinear Highboy 3 speakers.

My Modi stopped working so I replaced it with my Vinshine R2R Reference dac until such a time that Schiit repaired and returned my Modi. First evening im upstairs cooking,with music going in the background. My wife comes home from work and the first thing she says to me is "Did you do something to your set-up? It sounds so much better."

Needless to say that setup isnt very resolving and is used simply for background music when were out by the pool or im cooking,but even my wife,who has stone ears heard a big difference w/o even knowing that I had changed DACs.


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 29, 2020)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Blind testing is a pretty popular topic of discussion on Head-fi right now (well, more so than usual I think).  I find it fascinating, more and more as time passes.  However, what I find most interesting is how strongly people focus on only one or two facets of this and effectively ignore others.  I am 100% convinced at this point that the best person to do blind tests and comparisons is somebody with a psychology degree.  Specifically somebody involved on the research side of human mental behavior and how our brain twists and distortions our perception of things.  The more I learn about this subject the more convinced I am that you cannot trust your own short term (emphasis here) comparison impressions of anything *at all* be it related to audio or any number of other things.  Our subconscious mind actively works to alter our perceptions and will directly color impressions while making comparisons.  This happens outside of your conscious awareness.  I believe one of the reasons why many double blind tests reveal that people cannot reliably tell the difference between different components isn't because there is no difference, but because it is the nature of the subconscious part of our minds to "blend" and normalize these short term impressions.  The reasons why our brains do this is complex and a very fascinating subject of study.  I don't think enough weight is given this school of thought for it's potential to contaminate the results of these blind tests.
> 
> I only trust my long term listening impressions now.




I also only trust long term listening impressions, be it amps, dac, headphones , tubes.

I get a kick out of people who can roll 3 or 4 sets of tubes in an hour and think they know what sounds best....maybe some can, but I know I cant.
Fatigue does not set in that fast...nor does the sound for me...what sounds good with this particular album may not sound as good with another.
I pretty much take most impressions with a grain of salt at this stage.

Most people would be better off to trust their own ears...in the long run that is all that matters.
If it measures good and sounds bad...well....you know


----------



## Velozity (Jan 29, 2020)

Velozity said:


> 6C4 sound impressions...
> 
> 
> *National Union JNU-6C4, circa 1945-*
> ...



Added my 6C4 sound impressions to post #35262.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

The comparisons I shared some months ago of the 6J5s and equivalent 6SN7s were made in half hour listening sessions, pretty rigorous critical listening, but in a short period of time.  I don't think I have any special listening skills, but the improvement was obvious to me, so I shared it.  Seems others agree there is some advantage there.  I don't think the minutiae of each tube can be gleaned in that period of time, but certain aspects of the sound can. 

I'm probably dreaming thinking I could help close the subjectivist/objectivist gap with my little experiment.  As has been pointed out, it is probably impractical.  I only wish people would be more civil when having a disagreement, but that problem extends far beyond audiophilia.  Maybe Nick Cave was right, "people just ain't no good"  anyway, after posting a bunch here, I had intended to go on a hiatus.  I've started pontificating again, I think I will get back to it.  Happy listening gents.


----------



## leftside

The Cramps - People Ain't No Good.


----------



## Celty

A survival question: How does one best pass the time while on the waiting list for a Glenn Amp, in order to avoid developing an anxiety disorder?


----------



## leftside

Velozity said:


> *MOV CV133 welded black plate and MOV CV133 charcoal plate (non-welded)-*
> I’m grouping these last two together because I haven’t yet been able to distinguish any difference in sound.  This is as good as it gets in 6C4.  I also have GEC CV133 coming that may dethrone it, but as of now these tubes are king.


The GEC/MOV are probably the same tube. Perhaps you'll get lucky and the GEC CV133 will have different construction to your existing MOV CV133. I have incoming MOV CV133 black plates and GEC L77 black plates. I'm betting they are the same tubes. The only incoming tubes I ordered you don't have are the Telefunken 6C4. You built up a wonderful collection of 6C4 tubes in a very short period of time. I too really like the 12AU7, so have high hopes for these tubes. Will be interesting to compare the early Amperex and Mullard black welded plate 12AU7's I have. Not sure I feel like forking out for a long black plate/D getter GEC B329 to do further comparisons.


----------



## leftside

Celty said:


> A survival question: How does one best pass the time while on the waiting list for a Glenn Amp, in order to avoid developing an anxiety disorder?


Buy another custom amp from elsewhere. Can always sell it when Glenn pulls your name out of the hat.


----------



## Celty

leftside said:


> Buy another custom amp from elsewhere. Can always sell it when Glenn pulls your name out of the hat.


Ha you are close to the mark of the strategy I am currently trying, though not with a custom amp. Here is what I posted on another forum:

"I have a Glenn OTL on order, but will probably be a long wait, the demand runs higher than the ability of Glenn to build them.. In the mean time I saw a used tube hybrid that I had seen some reviews of, and snagged it. It is the well reviewed Loxjie P20. Will arrive on Monday.

So naturally I had to read up on tube options, and discovered that the original Chinese tubes are Ok, but not optimal. I wound up ordering a pair of 6N3P-DR NOS tubes from a company in Russia (tubes-store.com). These are the milspec version of the 6N3P, so the higher quality variant. So how much is this little experiment costing?

Well the Loxjie P20 is selling on Amazon for $99.99 but buying used I paid $60.00 including shipping. The 6N3P-DR sold for $6.00 each, and shipping was $8.00 (hey it's Russia), so $20.00 even in total.

So I'll be in for $80.00. No, it's not the uber quality OTL custom tube amplifier that the Glenn is, but it should be fun, and introduce me to the tube amp world. Who knows, I may even keep it after my Glenn is done, it might make a cool little bedroom amp 

Oh almost forgot, that one of the reasons I picked up this little amp was it's XLR inputs and output. Perfect, as that is how my cables are already setup."

The efficacy of this approach is yet to be determined


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> The Cramps - People Ain't No Good.




Different song, same message, but Lux said it first.  Think he and Cave were pals.  Okay I'm really going now, buh-bye!


----------



## Velozity

Celty said:


> A survival question: How does one best pass the time while on the waiting list for a Glenn Amp, in order to avoid developing an anxiety disorder?




Like @leftside said, get another amp that can whet your appetite.  For me it was the Audiotailor Jade.  It already uses a 6AS7G power tube and with an adapter from @Deyan I was able to use 6SN7 tubes in the driver slot.  This allowed me to start getting a feel for what tubes I might like for the GOTL.  Made the wait time at least a little more bearable.


----------



## mordy

The DR tubes are rated 10,000 hours.
I have not been able to find out if the DR tubes have a sonic advantage in general, but of the 6N6/6H30 family tubes the DR are supposedly the best sounding. And the price is sky high in comparison with other variants.


----------



## Velozity (Jan 29, 2020)

leftside said:


> The GEC/MOV are probably the same tube. Perhaps you'll get lucky and the GEC CV133 will have different construction to your existing MOV CV133. I have incoming MOV CV133 black plates and GEC L77 black plates. I'm betting they are the same tubes. The only incoming tubes I ordered you don't have are the Telefunken 6C4. You built up a wonderful collection of 6C4 tubes in a very short period of time. I too really like the 12AU7, so have high hopes for these tubes. Will be interesting to compare the early Amperex and Mullard black welded plate 12AU7's I have. Not sure I feel like forking out for a long black plate/D getter GEC B329 to do further comparisons.




Yes you're right they probably are the same tube.  But they're hard to find nevertheless so I'll just be happy to have a pair with GEC on it, lol.  I'll be really interested in your impressions on the Telefunken.  I was going to get that too but opted to spend the money on backup pairs of MOV.  Is it the EC90 variant?


----------



## leftside

Velozity said:


> Yes you're right they probably are the same tube.  But they're hard to find nevertheless so I'll just be happy to have a pair with GEC on it, lol.  I'll be really interested in your impressions on the Telefunken.  I was going to get that too but opted to spend the money on backup pairs of MOV.  Is it the EC90 variant?


I got them from here - I've purchased from him before. Two pieces left. Though judging by the description they look like Philips or Amperex tubes rebranded by Telefunken. Same place you purchased a bunch of your tubes from 
http://www.nostubestore.com/2018/03/telefunken-cv133-6c4.html


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> I got them from here - I've purchased from him before. Two pieces left. Though judging by the description they look like Philips or Amperex tubes rebranded by Telefunken. Same place you purchased a bunch of your tubes from
> http://www.nostubestore.com/2018/03/telefunken-cv133-6c4.html


When you click on the above link for Telefunken branded tubes a picture comes up with white boxes. On top of the box is a long number starting with 5960-xxx- which looks just like the 5960 number on the Sylvania JAN boxes.
Is it possible that these tubes are rebranded Sylvania tubes?
German law did not require country of origin printed, but if it wasn’t German made many tubes had “Foreign” printed on them.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> When you click on the above link for Telefunken branded tubes a picture comes up with white boxes. On top of the box is a long number starting with 5960-xxx- which looks just like the 5960 number on the Sylvania JAN boxes.
> Is it possible that these tubes are rebranded Sylvania tubes?
> German law did not require country of origin printed, but if it wasn’t German made many tubes had “Foreign” printed on them.


Good spot Mordy! To be honest I don't know for sure.


----------



## mordy (Jan 29, 2020)

[QUOTE="leftside, post: 15444722, member: 371737
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




Here is one such picture of a similar dual triode




And here is the TFK offer
Maybe put JACMusic on the case


----------



## gibosi

Celty said:


> A survival question: How does one best pass the time while on the waiting list for a Glenn Amp, in order to avoid developing an anxiety disorder?



I just kept buying more tubes for the Glenn. lol.


----------



## Celty

gibosi said:


> I just kept buying more tubes for the Glenn. lol.


Ah, that would require more knowledge of the amp and optimal tubes than I currently possess. I plan to rely on Glenn's expertise for that.


----------



## DecentLevi

leftside said:


> I already have EL11 to C3g adapters. I'll have to ask @A2029 if he thinks my amp will be more suited to EL11 in C3g sockets or in 6J5 sockets?


Oh, for my incoming SET amp I was told by Deyan that I will need dual EL11's but that's for the 6SN7 slot. Oh I see you're using it in a 6J5 slot.



chrisdrop said:


> I _believe_ it was one of Slawa's multi-core silver interconnects. It certainly belonged to him and think it is the sort of thing he makes.
> 
> My interconnects were too short for our somewhat haphazard setup...


Yep, those interconnects or something I noticed for sure, looking gorgeous! Any impressions on their sounds or at least how they compare to others? And about a general cost? thanks


----------



## Zachik

Celty said:


> Ah, that would require more knowledge of the amp and optimal tubes than I currently possess. I plan to rely on Glenn's expertise for that.


Does not include recommendations, but feel free to use my OTL tube compatibility table (link in my signature).


----------



## Celty

Zachik said:


> Does not include recommendations, but feel free to use my OTL tube compatibility table (link in my signature).


Thanks, actually I have already spent some time going over it. I appreciate your providing the link and information


----------



## Velozity (Jan 30, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Does not include recommendations, but feel free to use my OTL tube compatibility table (link in my signature).


By the way, you can add the dual- 6C4 / CV133 / 6100 / EC90 to that list as 6.3V drivers with adapter


----------



## Velozity (Jan 30, 2020)

leftside said:


> I got them from here - I've purchased from him before. Two pieces left. Though judging by the description they look like Philips or Amperex tubes rebranded by Telefunken. Same place you purchased a bunch of your tubes from
> http://www.nostubestore.com/2018/03/telefunken-cv133-6c4.html




Yes, nostubestore is legit.  Koray is a good fella.  I still haven't found anyone with maybe the rarest 6C4 tube though; the GEC QA2401.  That's my new unicorn.  Dibs if anyone finds any somewhere on the planet, lol.


----------



## jambaj0e

So I'm seriously looking to purchase a 300B tube amp for my Chord Qutest + Audeze LCD-3, and while I've been researching the Woo Audio WA5-LE, Cayin HA300, and Eddie Current BA/SJ, someone mentioned that I should look into the Glenn 300B. The question is how can I get a listening session in Los Angeles? I'd love to be able to bring my LCD-3 with or without my Qutest to test the amp out. Also, what's the price for it?


----------



## chrisdrop

DecentLevi said:


> Yep, those interconnects or something I noticed for sure, looking gorgeous! Any impressions on their sounds or at least how they compare to others? And about a general cost? thanks



Those interconnects were just part of our listening session, so I didn't really get to compare/ swap. I can say that they are visually beautiful and have a lot of silver in them. When I see him next/ talk to him next I will ask for details. Here is a short article on cable materials that shows a bit of his thought process.


----------



## whirlwind

jambaj0e said:


> So I'm seriously looking to purchase a 300B tube amp for my Chord Qutest + Audeze LCD-3, and while I've been researching the Woo Audio WA5-LE, Cayin HA300, and Eddie Current BA/SJ, someone mentioned that I should look into the Glenn 300B. The question is how can I get a listening session in Los Angeles? I'd love to be able to bring my LCD-3 with or without my Qutest to test the amp out. Also, what's the price for it?




It may be hard to get a listening session as there are not that many Glenn 300B amps out in the wild.

I think the price use to be 4K, but you would have to check with Glenn about that.
Maybe some owners of the 300B amp will chime in here. I know some have heard the LCD-3 with it.
Glenn also says that the EL3N amps get pretty close to the 300B sound for less money.

I own an EL3N amp, but have never heard the 300B, but I would sure like too.


----------



## jambaj0e

whirlwind said:


> It may be hard to get a listening session as there are not that many Glenn 300B amps out in the wild.
> 
> I think the price use to be 4K, but you would have to check with Glenn about that.
> Maybe some owners of the 300B amp will chime in here. I know some have heard the LCD-3 with it.
> ...



Mmm gotcha. How much was the EL3N amp?


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 30, 2020)

jambaj0e said:


> Mmm gotcha. How much was the EL3N amp?



Depends on what options you get and I believe Glenn only makes this with the larger chassis now, which would add a bit of cost.
Probably still not a great deal over half of what 300B cost.

It is a killer amp. You may want to ask @Sound Trooper how he likes his, he also has the LCD-3.


----------



## Zachik

Velozity said:


> By the way, you can add the dual- 6C4 / CV133 / 6100 / EC90 to that list as 6.3V drivers with adapter


Would that be adapter for 2 x 6C4 (and the others) -> 6SN7?  same concept as 2x6J5->6SN7? 
Just confirming before adding...


----------



## Velozity

Zachik said:


> Would that be adapter for 2 x 6C4 (and the others) -> 6SN7?  same concept as 2x6J5->6SN7?
> Just confirming before adding...


Yep, you got it.


----------



## leftside

jambaj0e said:


> So I'm seriously looking to purchase a 300B tube amp for my Chord Qutest + Audeze LCD-3, and while I've been researching the Woo Audio WA5-LE, Cayin HA300, and Eddie Current BA/SJ, someone mentioned that I should look into the Glenn 300B. The question is how can I get a listening session in Los Angeles? I'd love to be able to bring my LCD-3 with or without my Qutest to test the amp out. Also, what's the price for it?


I'll be in LA next month, but unfortunately the 300B is a little large and heavy to bring with me! We tend to see one appear on the used market each year. You could also ask Glenn to build you one, and then purchase one of the other amps you mentioned in the meantime. If you purchase on the used market, you wouldn't lose any money when your 300B is ready.

The airiness, detail and openness of the 300B combined with that deep LCD-3 sound go really, really well together.


----------



## Zachik

Velozity said:


> Yep, you got it.


Added to my compatibility table!
Thanks for the info


----------



## mordy

Hi gibosi,
Maybe you can shed some light on what the long numeral designation means, starting with 5960-xxx-, on some tube boxes. So far I have seen it on Sylvania, Tung Sol and now Telefunken white boxes.
Could it be some kind of US military code? And if so, is it likely that the US military  would use it for non-US made tubes?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> Maybe you can shed some light on what the long numeral designation means, starting with 5960-xxx-, on some tube boxes. So far I have seen it on Sylvania, Tung Sol and now Telefunken white boxes.
> Could it be some kind of US military code? And if so, is it likely that the US military  would use it for non-US made tubes?



Unfortunately, I don't have a clue. lol


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Celty said:


> A survival question: How does one best pass the time while on the waiting list for a Glenn Amp, in order to avoid developing an anxiety disorder?



I spent 10 months collecting rare tubes and emptying my bank account.  #feelsgoodman


----------



## DecentLevi

@2359glenn I heard Zachik's OTL amp is next, then my custom SET amp 'El Darwin'. Do you have any status updates on his amp, or mine? Also for a special reason I'm interested to know, about how many watts will my amp put out on the 8 ohm speaker tap?


----------



## chrisdrop

DecentLevi said:


> Yep, those interconnects or something I noticed for sure, looking gorgeous! Any impressions on their sounds or at least how they compare to others? And about a general cost? thanks



I spoke to Slawa and here is what he had to say about these interconnects:
_
The ones in the picture are one of my prototypes made of 12 braided fine silver conductors with varying geometry.

At the moment there is not a single dealer who has our cables simply because cabling is not offered through channels of distribution.  

If someone is interested, please forward my email address or ask to contact us directly- thank you._​
They are gorgeous in person too FYI.


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> I spoke to Slawa and here is what he had to say about these interconnects:
> _
> The ones in the picture are one of my prototypes made of 12 braided fine silver conductors with varying geometry.
> 
> ...


I cannot but wonder how $$$ they would be... I have been auditioning and A/B-ing freakin' expensive RCA cables to my existing not-cheap RCA cables. Differences are small, at least to my ears, but they are there!  Interestingly, I could not detect them at first - running the risk of starting a new burn-in wars I would say that I am starting to think that burn-in is a real thing for cables.


----------



## Monsterzero

chrisdrop said:


> I spoke to Slawa and here is what he had to say about these interconnects:
> _
> The ones in the picture are one of my prototypes made of 12 braided fine silver conductors with varying geometry.
> 
> ...


+1 wanting to know pricing and contact info.


----------



## Zachik

DecentLevi said:


> @2359glenn I heard Zachik's OTL *EL3N* amp is next, then my custom SET amp 'El Darwin'. Do you have any status updates on his amp, or mine? Also for a special reason I'm interested to know, about how many watts will my amp put out on the 8 ohm speaker tap?


Corrected what you "heard"...


----------



## chrisdrop

Monsterzero said:


> +1 wanting to know pricing and contact info.


I don't know pricing, but based purely on the raw quantity of cores and the material (silver), I expect them to be expensive (whatever that means).

You can contact him via http://sw1xad.co.uk/.


----------



## gibosi

Whoa! Head-fi has a new look but everything seems to be working fine.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 2, 2020)

gibosi said:


> Whoa! Head-fi has a new look but everything seems to be working fine.




Whoa...nice looking rectifier Ken...crazy plates....what is it ?

New look seems ok.

I just lost my set of audio engine 5 speakers that we used in the basement....surfing for a set of powered bookshelf speakers now.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Whoa! Head-fi has a new look but everything seems to be working fine.


What rectifier is that??


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Whoa...nice looking rectifier Ken...crazy plates....what is it ?
> 
> New look seems ok.
> 
> I just lost my set of audio engine 5 speakers that we used in the basement....surfing for a set of powered bookshelf speakers now.



"Lost"?? Perhaps a friend or relative absconded with them? 

That rectifier is a bit of mystery. 

The vendor told me he believes it is a Klangfilm. However, there are no markings of any kind on the tube to help identify it. On the glass pinch, the number "2.5" is written. But this probably suggests that it has a 2.5 amp heater as I often see the heater currrent written on the pinch of these old 4-volt rectifiers. So again, it is a bit of a mystery.

That said, we know that Klangfilm did manufacture their own vacuum tubes in the early days, but later tubes were sourced from Telefunken. Comparing the construction of Klangfilm and Telefunken rectifiers I see on eBay, they look very similar, if not identical. Moreover, the Klangfilm tubes usually carry Telefunken date codes! So I am inclined to believe that the vast majority of the Klangfilm tubes I see on eBay were in fact manufactured by Telefunken.

So it may well be wishful thinking on my part, but it is certainly possible that this is a "real" Klangfilm KL76303, which is equivalent to the Telefunken RGN2504. The construction of this tube "exudes" quality to my eyes. Morever, I have never seen another tube anything like it. So if it isn't a Klangfilm, then I have absolutely no idea who made it. It is a mystery.


----------



## Monsterzero

Finally! Landed a matched pair of NOS GEC L63s from the 1950s. I have lost so many auctions by a few dollars in the past several months I thought I'd never get a pair. I really need to figure out how to use the Sniper app. :/

From the photos it looks like one tube is slightly larger than the other,but the seller is well known and has a good reputation,so im hoping they sound the same.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Finally! Landed a matched pair of NOS GEC L63s from the 1950s. I have lost so many auctions by a few dollars in the past several months I thought I'd never get a pair. I really need to figure out how to use the Sniper app. :/
> 
> From the photos it looks like one tube is slightly larger than the other,but the seller is well known and has a good reputation,so im hoping they sound the same.



eBay sniper

https://www.gixen.com/index.php


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> "Lost"?? Perhaps a friend or relative absconded with them?
> 
> That rectifier is a bit of mystery.
> 
> ...



That is a very nice find sir   






Monsterzero said:


> Finally! Landed a matched pair of NOS GEC L63s from the 1950s. I have lost so many auctions by a few dollars in the past several months I thought I'd never get a pair. I really need to figure out how to use the Sniper app. :/
> 
> From the photos it looks like one tube is slightly larger than the other,but the seller is well known and has a good reputation,so im hoping they sound the same.




That is just the difference in size of the glass envelope no worries...tubes should be find...congrats.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Finally! Landed a matched pair of NOS  GEC L63s from the 1950s. I have lost so many auctions by a few dollars in the past several months I thought I'd never get a pair. I really need to figure out how to use the Sniper app. :/
> 
> From the photos it looks like one tube is slightly larger than the other,but the seller is well known and has a good reputation,so im hoping they sound the same.


----------



## mordy

Hi M0,
I know that you have some of the metal 6J5 tubes and I am very curious how these L63 GEC tubes compare to them.
Please post your impressions once you receive them.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Finally! Landed a matched pair of NOS GEC L63s from the 1950s. I have lost so many auctions by a few dollars in the past several months I thought I'd never get a pair. I really need to figure out how to use the Sniper app. :/
> 
> From the photos it looks like one tube is slightly larger than the other,but the seller is well known and has a good reputation,so im hoping they sound the same.


Well done - fair price. You're opening yourself to be outbid though by bidding a day early. By bidding early, you give the snipers an idea of what their snipe amount should be. Did you ask Lamberto if he has any more of those Fivre 6J5GT black plates? Could save on shipping...

Did you see how much his EL37 old/bulbous shape tubes went for!? Wow. Didn't look any different to this one I picked up from Australia last year:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-MULLARD-EL37-Valve-Tube-Made-In-England-TESTED-95-/153750792459


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Hi M0,
> I know that you have some of the metal 6J5 tubes and I am very curious how these L63 GEC tubes compare to them.
> Please post your impressions once you receive them.


I have only the Ken Rad and Sylvania VT135 metal bases. Unfortunately my Sylvanias make popping and crackling noises that I mentioned awhile back. I just bought another pair of Sylvania 12J5s,but non metal base. When I find some time I will do your soldering iron treatment on the VT135s. I have a search for another pair up,but I havent seen another NOS pair pop up in awhile.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Well done - fair price. You're opening yourself to be outbid though by bidding a day early. By bidding early, you give the snipers an idea of what their snipe amount should be. Did you ask Lamberto if he has any more of those Fivre 6J5GT black plates? Could save on shipping...
> 
> Did you see how much his EL37 old/bulbous shape tubes went for!? Wow. Didn't look any different to this one I picked up from Australia last year:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-MULLARD-EL37-Valve-Tube-Made-In-England-TESTED-95-/153750792459


Yeah I know im not the most strategic eBayer around. I do have the snipe app. I guess I should actually use it. 
I didnt ask Lamberto about the Fivre's. I have two more LessLoss power cords on loan from Constantin here,and the difference theyre making in my system is profound. I have one each running into my Aurender,TRP, and GOTL. At $1050.00 a pop,most all of my cash is going towards purchasing those,and then down the line a 4th power cable for my Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum. I have set aside some cash for what you and I discussed previously if youre still down for that.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah I know im not the most strategic eBayer around. I do have the snipe app. I guess I should actually use it.
> I didnt ask Lamberto about the Fivre's. I have two more LessLoss power cords on loan from Constantin here,and the difference theyre making in my system is profound. I have one each running into my Aurender,TRP, and GOTL. At $1050.00 a pop,most all of my cash is going towards purchasing those,and then down the line a 4th power cable for my Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum. I have set aside some cash for what you and I discussed previously if youre still down for that.


I'm going to send you one of my expensive and very well made power cords when I also send you the tubes, so you can compare to those other power cords.


----------



## 2359glenn

Here is a GEC L63 single

https://www.ebay.com/itm/L63-10E-11...817932?hash=item3b3f95464c:g:YKkAAOSwRDVeDfdi


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> I'm going to send you one of my expensive and very well made power cords when I also send you the tubes, so you can compare to those other power cords.


I am curious: which power cords are those?
I have couple things on my wishlist above the power cords, and shelling $1K for each power cord is just not realistic with my other plans!


----------



## leftside

Zachik said:


> I am curious: which power cords are those?
> I have couple things on my wishlist above the power cords, and shelling $1K for each power cord is just not realistic with my other plans!


They are not $1000 cords, but still expensive. I'd rather not say what they are until monster has given them a try.


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> They are not $1000 cords, but still expensive. I'd rather not say what they are until monster has given them a try.


Fair enough!  Will be awaiting @Monsterzero verdict


----------



## maxpudding

Whoah new look

lots of new features I see


----------



## Monsterzero (Feb 3, 2020)

leftside said:


> I'm going to send you one of my expensive and very well made power cords when I also send you the tubes, so you can compare to those other power cords.





Zachik said:


> Fair enough!  Will be awaiting @Monsterzero verdict


Well, Lefty's power cables are going to have to really rock my world for me to switch. I firmly believe in supporting companies and individuals who not only take their time to speak to you honestly,vs. someone who is simply trying to make a sale,but also those who go out of their way to actually lend you products to try in your home.

I tried for a very long time to get high end DACs on loan prior to buying the Lampizator. I contacted many of the heavy hitters in the industry and many wouldnt even bother answering my emails. Fred @ Lampizator NA (@Gopher ) was the first to step up and loan me a DAC,and I bought it. Similarly Constantin @ Atelier-13 stepped up and loaned me these cables,shipped them on his dime,and didnt ask for a deposit. So I bought them. Both Fred and Constantin went out of their way to help me improve my system when others ignored me,so I support them by purchasing from them. Of course it certainly helps that they both represent fantastic sounding gear!

Perhaps Leftside's cables might be able to hang with mine,perhaps even better than what I have,and when I report back I will be honest about what Im hearing,but im big on principles and as I said support those who helped me.


----------



## DecentLevi (Feb 3, 2020)

Hey I'm wondering is someone may have an answer for this: Is there any audible loss in sonic purity by having two vs. one set of RCA inputs on a highly resolving amp? I was thinking about asking for 2 sets of inputs on my Glenn SET amp, but my logic is that the signal path increases if both are connected in parallel - the input signal not only flowing into the amp but also back through the other cable and into the other device; even without anything connected on the other side  it still flows through the extra connectors / wires. Does this hold any merit or is it generally not audible?


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Hey I'm wondering is someone may have an answer for this: Is there any audible loss in sonic purity by having two vs. one set of RCA inputs on a highly resolving amp? I was thinking about asking for 2 sets of inputs on my Glenn SET amp, but my logic is that the signal path increases if both are connected in parallel - the input signal not only flowing into the amp but also back through the other cable and into the other device; even without anything connected on the other side  it still flows through the extra connectors / wires. Does this hold any merit or is it generally not audible?



Not a good idea unless you have multiple inputs.
The second source will load down the signal from the first source.


----------



## DecentLevi

Yup, that's what I meant that the 2nd source would degrade the sound from the first source. I recall on a former amp with multiple inputs, this would sometimes seem to mess with the current making the volume surge erratically too. By multiple inputs, do you mean switchable? I don't want to trouble you for another switch and that would add a longer signal path anyway.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

2359glenn said:


> Not a good idea unless you have multiple inputs.
> The second source will load down the signal from the first source.


So does the same logic could apply for the multiple pre-outs as well.


----------



## 2359glenn

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> So does the same logic could apply for the multiple pre-outs as well.



Not really unless what you are driving has a low impedance input.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

If you need multiple inputs, get a Goldpoint passive preamp.  Could get something cheaper or make one, but these are high quality.

2 inputs: https://goldpt.com/sa2.html
4 inputs: https://www.goldpt.com/sa4.html


----------



## gibosi

An interesting book arrived today:


----------



## cddc

Can we go back to the old forum structure?  

I find the search function terrible in the new structure. You can't search a keyword within a thread!

And you can't search for threads within a sub-forum either! Say, you want to search for "tube" under the ForSales sub-forum, it will return a bunch of disordered threads where you can't find which ones are the newly listed.

I am still trying to acquaint myself with the new structure, but so far very frustrated...


----------



## Monsterzero

cddc said:


> Can we go back to the old forum structure?
> 
> I find the search function terrible in the new structure. You can't search a keyword within a thread!
> 
> ...


Its funny. Every time they make changes everyone wants to go back to the old one,the same old one that everyone complained about previously.

You need to go to search>choose where to look>advanced search>choose your parameters>profit.


----------



## cddc (Feb 3, 2020)

Monsterzero said:


> Its funny. Every time they make changes everyone wants to go back to the old one,the same old one that everyone complained about previously.
> 
> You need to go to search>choose where to look>advanced search>choose your parameters>profit.




Funny indeed, but I think there're some reasons behind it. The main challenge is that people need time to acquaint themselves with the new interface, I believe.

That aside, using the "Search" function from the top-right corner I WAS able to search a keyword within a thread. I was previously using the "Search forums" menu in the middle of the menu bar but with no success.

However, I still couldn't get the list of newly listed "tubes" under the ForSale sub-forum. In the advanced search I can only choose Order by Relevance and get a bunch of DISORDERED threads. If I choose Order by Most Recent, then it will return nothing.

In the old interface, all you have to do is to fill in your keyword to the small search box above the thread or threads, it is as simple as that. Now it's becoming so complicated yet you can't get what you're looking for.


----------



## mordy

In the past I noticed that bugs became fixed when the people in charge were notified. Suggest you direct your complaints to the people that manage the web site.
And yes, I hate learning curves!


----------



## cddc

I don't know where to report the problem. I searched all sub-forums but it seemed nowhere could I find a place/thread to report.

I remember people were discussing the malfunctioning notification function sometime earlier here, so I think it might be a good place to ask.


----------



## mordy

Go down to the bottom of this page and you will find Contact us which allows you to send an email to voice your concerns.


----------



## Monsterzero

cddc said:


> Funny indeed, but I think there're some reasons behind it. The main challenge is that people need time to acquaint themselves with the new interface, I believe.
> 
> That aside, using the "Search" function from the top-right corner I WAS able to search a keyword within a thread. I was previously using the "Search forums" menu in the middle of the menu bar but with no success.
> 
> ...


Post here. Im conversing with a mod currently on other bugs

https://www.head-fi.org/forums/feedback-bug-reports.5620/


----------



## cddc

Great, thanks a lot @mordy  and @Monsterzero !


----------



## Zachik

cddc said:


> I don't know where to report the problem. I searched all sub-forums but it seemed nowhere could I find a place/thread to report.


PM @joe (I already did...)


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> PM @joe (I already did...)


Its actually @AxelCloris that needs to be addressed,but theyre swamped. I have stumbled across five separate bugs personally. 
Theres always issues when this stuff happens.


----------



## cddc

Zachik said:


> PM @joe (I already did...)




Thanks a lot, I've already reported the issues to the Feedback & Bug Reports sub-forum indicated by @Monsterzero


----------



## mordy

Hi gibosi,
Here is possible meaning of  the sequence of numbers starting with 5960 - xx - xxx-xxxx printed on some tube boxes.




These are NATO numbers, as 5960-XX-000-YYYY where XX is the country code, and YYYY is the CV number.  For example, 5960-99-000-4004 = CV4004 (12AX7WA), with 99 indicating country of origin as UK. 
The above picture shows the numbers 5960.99.000.1067 
5960 = NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization)
99 = UK
000 - ?
1067 = is the CV number 1067 aka L63/6J5
However, other such number sequences starting on 5960 that I have seen have fewer numbers and don't seem to indicate country of origin or tube designation.
Possibly all the 5960 marked boxes were for NATO use?


----------



## Phantaminum

The site change feels like a collab between Facebook and Head-Fi. Do not want.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

site feels and looks clunky... i used to log on a few times a day to kill free time.  now i check just once and hurry back to my music


----------



## UsoppNoKami

This roll has not been touched since I put it in - GEC U52 rectifier, Mullard ECC32, Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plates. Really good with the ZMF Verite!


----------



## mordy

Found the NATO country code list. The UK is indeed 99, and the US gets 00-10. In case you find a tube with the country code 60, it was made in Kuwait (country code 69 is off the map):

CountryNCB Code(s)CountryNCB CodeCountryNCB CodeUnited States00 and 01Hungary51New Zealand98United States (unassigned)02 through 10Chile52United Kingdom99NATO-standard items11Croatia53West Germany / Germany12Republic of North Macedonia[4]54Belgium13Latvia55France14Oman56Italy15Russian Federation57Czechoslovakia / Czech Republic16Finland58Netherlands17Albania59South Africa18Kuwait60Brazil19Ukraine61Canada20 and 21Belarus62Denmark22Morocco63Greece23Sweden64Iceland24Papua, New Guinea65Norway25Australia66Portugal26Afghanistan67Turkey27Georgia68Luxembourg28?69Argentina29Saudi Arabia70Japan30United Arab Emirates71Israel31India72Singapore32Serbia73Spain33Pakistan74Malaysia34Bosnia-Herzegovina75Thailand35Brunei Darussalam76Egypt36Montenegro77Republic of Korea37Jordan78Estonia38Peru79Romania39Colombia80Slovakia40Austria41Slovenia42Poland43United Nations-standard items44Indonesia45Philippines46Lithuania47Fiji48Tonga49Bulgaria
Don't know why Deyan was left out, his country code should be 50 lol
Hi leftside:
And now we have solved where the Telefunken CV133 were made - not in Ulm, DE, but in country 99, which is the United Kingdom.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Found the NATO country code list. The UK is indeed 99, and the US gets 00-10. In case you find a tube with the country code 60, it was made in Kuwait (country code 69 is off the map):
> 
> CountryNCB Code(s)CountryNCB CodeCountryNCB CodeUnited States00 and 01Hungary51New Zealand98United States (unassigned)02 through 10Chile52United Kingdom99NATO-standard items11Croatia53West Germany / Germany12Republic of North Macedonia[4]54Belgium13Latvia55France14Oman56Italy15Russian Federation57Czechoslovakia / Czech Republic16Finland58Netherlands17Albania59South Africa18Kuwait60Brazil19Ukraine61Canada20 and 21Belarus62Denmark22Morocco63Greece23Sweden64Iceland24Papua, New Guinea65Norway25Australia66Portugal26Afghanistan67Turkey27Georgia68Luxembourg28?69Argentina29Saudi Arabia70Japan30United Arab Emirates71Israel31India72Singapore32Serbia73Spain33Pakistan74Malaysia34Bosnia-Herzegovina75Thailand35Brunei Darussalam76Egypt36Montenegro77Republic of Korea37Jordan78Estonia38Peru79Romania39Colombia80Slovakia40Austria41Slovenia42Poland43United Nations-standard items44Indonesia45Philippines46Lithuania47Fiji48Tonga49Bulgaria
> Don't know why Deyan was left out, his country code should be 50 lol
> ...



Good work!!


----------



## gibosi

I am pretty sure these are GEC U52 with a 5Z3 base. But I'm not positive. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5z3-Tubes-Pair-Maid-in-England/184158929237


----------



## leftside

UsoppNoKami said:


> This roll has not been touched since I put it in - GEC U52 rectifier, Mullard ECC32, Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plates. Really good with the ZMF Verite!


I bet that combo sounds good with any headphone. Well done on finding 6 matching flat ladder plate/triple mica 6BL7GT.



mordy said:


> Found the NATO country code list. The UK is indeed 99, and the US gets 00-10. In case you find a tube with the country code 60, it was made in Kuwait (country code 69 is off the map):
> 
> CountryNCB Code(s)CountryNCB CodeCountryNCB CodeUnited States00 and 01Hungary51New Zealand98United States (unassigned)02 through 10Chile52United Kingdom99NATO-standard items11Croatia53West Germany / Germany12Republic of North Macedonia[4]54Belgium13Latvia55France14Oman56Italy15Russian Federation57Czechoslovakia / Czech Republic16Finland58Netherlands17Albania59South Africa18Kuwait60Brazil19Ukraine61Canada20 and 21Belarus62Denmark22Morocco63Greece23Sweden64Iceland24Papua, New Guinea65Norway25Australia66Portugal26Afghanistan67Turkey27Georgia68Luxembourg28?69Argentina29Saudi Arabia70Japan30United Arab Emirates71Israel31India72Singapore32Serbia73Spain33Pakistan74Malaysia34Bosnia-Herzegovina75Thailand35Brunei Darussalam76Egypt36Montenegro77Republic of Korea37Jordan78Estonia38Peru79Romania39Colombia80Slovakia40Austria41Slovenia42Poland43United Nations-standard items44Indonesia45Philippines46Lithuania47Fiji48Tonga49Bulgaria
> Don't know why Deyan was left out, his country code should be 50 lol
> ...


Good job! Post bookmarked. I wonder who made them then?


----------



## cddc (Feb 4, 2020)

Nice list....but why Russia is on the list, shouldn't it be on the Warsaw Pact list instead of NATO list?

Maybe reserved for possible future enrollment...


----------



## DecentLevi

The newest(?) hi-fi tweak: filling your component with sand. More here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/singxer-su-6.902272/post-15450685

Disclaimer: I do not endorse this idea in any way, nor am I sure to try it.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> The newest(?) hi-fi tweak: filling your component with sand. More here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/singxer-su-6.902272/post-15450685
> 
> Disclaimer: I do not endorse this idea in any way, nor am I sure to try it.



What!!!
The dumbest thing I ever head of.


----------



## Monsterzero (Feb 4, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> The newest(?) hi-fi tweak: filling your component with sand. More here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/singxer-su-6.902272/post-15450685
> 
> Disclaimer: I do not endorse this idea in any way, nor am I sure to try it.


Its a twist on the quartz crystals that some use to change the sound of their gear.
I know of at least one (very)high end cable maker who fills his power conditioners and cables with a mix of crystal sand.

Simply placing a chunk of pink quartz on your transformer makes a noticeable change. Cheap,harmless and reversible.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Just want to point out that the thread is nearing page 2359, better make it good


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Its a twist on the quartz crystals that some use to change the sound of their gear.
> I know of at least one (very)high end cable maker who fills his power conditioners and cables with a mix of crystal sand.
> 
> Simply placing a chunk of pink quartz on your transformer makes a noticeable change. Cheap,harmless and reversible.



Don't knock it 'til you try it I guess, need to keep my mouth shut and let people just do their thing.  Just hope users will experiment with putting pink quartz on top of their gear before they are convinced to dump sand into it...


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Don't knock it 'til you try it I guess, need to keep my mouth shut and let people just do their thing.  Just hope users will experiment with putting pink quartz on top of their gear before they are convinced to dump sand into it...


Ive put pink quartz on top of several of my pieces of gear. It really brings out the upper mids,but diminishes bass and weight. I know some users who swear by a mixture of various rocks that work in combination with each other.
I have had discussions about this with some other members in this thread,where I admitted to thinking this was totally ridiculous and asinine,until I tried it. I have all of the other rocks here in my home,but havent gotten around to experimenting yet.


----------



## maxpudding

Just when you thought cables would be the end of it, now we will need to look at sand impressions


----------



## gibosi

If you have some surplus tubes you think you will never use, this might be a good home for them. 

And even if you don't, this site gives some idea about the electronics installed on WWII submarines.

https://www.wisconsinmaritime.org/submarines/uss-cobia/radio-restoration/


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Ive put pink quartz on top of several of my pieces of gear. It really brings out the upper mids,but diminishes bass and weight. I know some users who swear by a mixture of various rocks that work in combination with each other.
> I have had discussions about this with some other members in this thread,where I admitted to thinking this was totally ridiculous and asinine,until I tried it. I have all of the other rocks here in my home,but havent gotten around to experimenting yet.


Way back, maybe 30 years ago, there was this thing about putting coins on the front edge on top of the speakers. A couple dimes and or quarters - should be cheaper than pink quartz.
And I think sand has a good use in serving as filler in hollow equipment stands for additional mass, but I never tried it. In those days Toys 'R Us had inexpensive 25 lb sand bags.
And the green markers for the CD edges .... memories.....


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Found the NATO country code list. The UK is indeed 99, and the US gets 00-10. In case you find a tube with the country code 60, it was made in Kuwait (country code 69 is off the map):
> 
> CountryNCB Code(s)CountryNCB CodeCountryNCB CodeUnited States00 and 01Hungary51New Zealand98United States (unassigned)02 through 10Chile52United Kingdom99NATO-standard items11Croatia53West Germany / Germany12Republic of North Macedonia[4]54Belgium13Latvia55France14Oman56Italy15Russian Federation57Czechoslovakia / Czech Republic16Finland58Netherlands17Albania59South Africa18Kuwait60Brazil19Ukraine61Canada20 and 21Belarus62Denmark22Morocco63Greece23Sweden64Iceland24Papua, New Guinea65Norway25Australia66Portugal26Afghanistan67Turkey27Georgia68Luxembourg28?69Argentina29Saudi Arabia70Japan30United Arab Emirates71Israel31India72Singapore32Serbia73Spain33Pakistan74Malaysia34Bosnia-Herzegovina75Thailand35Brunei Darussalam76Egypt36Montenegro77Republic of Korea37Jordan78Estonia38Peru79Romania39Colombia80Slovakia40Austria41Slovenia42Poland43United Nations-standard items44Indonesia45Philippines46Lithuania47Fiji48Tonga49Bulgaria
> Don't know why Deyan was left out, his country code should be 50 lol
> ...


The plot thickens.... I zoomed in on the glass and saw the "BWB 448" designation inside the German Eagle Crest on the tubes...

"BWB" MILITARY EAGLE 
THE BWB SOURCED THESE OLDER 1950'S TUBES in the early 1970's from Telefunken factory stock WITH THE DOME-TOP AND  
RE-LABELLED THEM "BWB" and REPACKED THEM AFTER EXTENSIVE MILITARY TESTING. 
Telefunken didn't make EF86 tubes in the 1970's as the Telefunken Factories had long ago shut their doors 
These are BWB CERTIFIED for TOP specifications, not only meeting but EXCEEDING Telefunken's Data Sheet requirements. 
THEY THEN labeled THE "BWB 448" GERMAN MILITARY DESIGNATION "EAGLE CREST" AND REPACKAGED THE BOXES IN 1970's. 
Best Quality "BWB" Bundesamt für Wehrtechnik und Beschaffung Tungsram tubes.  
(German: Federal Office of Defense Technology and Procurement) 


https://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TFK-EF86


----------



## maxpudding

Dyson’s patent application for a headphone...with air purifier:

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/4/21122107/dyson-patent-application-wearable-air-purifier-headphones


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Ive put pink quartz on top of several of my pieces of gear. It really brings out the upper mids,but diminishes bass and weight. I know some users who swear by a mixture of various rocks that work in combination with each other.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Don't knock it 'til you try it I guess, need to keep my mouth shut and let people just do their thing.  Just hope users will experiment with putting pink quartz on top of their gear before they are convinced to dump sand into it...



I can just see the sand getting into pots and switches and messing them up.
Sand has the tendency to get into everything.  Sex on the beach not a good idea.


----------



## chrisdrop

2359glenn said:


> Sex on the beach not a good idea.


Hey now, beggars can't be choosers over here!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> I can just see the sand getting into pots and switches and messing them up.
> Sand has the tendency to get into everything.  Sex on the beach not a good idea.



Reminds me of one of the greatest quotes in film history.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Just posting to leave my name on page 2359


----------



## mordy

Ditto


----------



## chrisdrop

... meta-post bandwagon 
me too


----------



## whirlwind

I am in on the 2359 posting


----------



## Velozity

Something profound needs to be posted on this page.  Or at least some amp porn!  Glenn??


----------



## mordy

Hi Velozity,
Here is an interesting concept that everybody can relate to: Suppose I was to tell you a beautiful story? Once, twice - three times....you'll be bored; you heard it already - you know already what it is all about. One more time and it becomes really boring - enough!
Now, why is it that you can listen to a favorite song over and over again, many many times, day after day, and you don't tire of it?
And when you get new equipment or tubes etc, you play that same song or songs again to see if you can hear more detail or impact or whatever - you don't get bored and you don't tire of it?
Why?


----------



## 2359glenn

I really have nothing new but here is a pic of my 15 year old preamp after switching the preamp tubes.
From #26 to E424 they are quieter then the 26.  Made this when DH labs 20ga solid silver wire was $4 a foot.
No way could I afford it now


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Here is what I will say about my experience with this thread.

I first came because it is the most tube-knowledgable thread on Head-Fi, and being a tube nut, I wanted to talk tubes!  But what kept me coming back is the welcoming, humble, honest, and funny group of Head-Fiers that keep the thread alive.  For better or for worse, my time spent on Head-Fi has probably quadrupled since I started hanging out here, as has my post output (sorry guys!).  The knowledge I have gained here talking with Glenn and other regulars has inspired me to follow my own DIY pursuits...and empty my wallet at an unprecendented rate 

So I will say thank you to Glenn for hosting and offering his amplifiers to the community, and thank you to everyone else for the great conversation and friendship 

I used to be real keen on tube porn, but haven't taken any shots in a while.  I'll just repost the gif I made a few months ago.


----------



## Monsterzero (Feb 5, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is what I will say about my experience with this thread.
> 
> I first came because it is the most tube-knowledgable thread on Head-Fi, and being a tube nut, I wanted to talk tubes!  But what kept me coming back is the welcoming, humble, honest, and funny group of Head-Fiers that keep the thread alive.  For better or for worse, my time spent on Head-Fi has probably quadrupled since I started hanging out here, as has my post output (sorry guys!).  The knowledge I have gained here talking with Glenn and other regulars has inspired me to follow my own DIY pursuits...and empty my wallet at an unprecendented rate
> 
> ...


Ah yes! I was wondering when the earthquake video was going to return!

EDIT: It appears as if Ive missed appearing on the 2359 page. 
EDIT ll: I made it!!!!


----------



## Velozity

mordy said:


> Hi Velozity,
> Here is an interesting concept that everybody can relate to: Suppose I was to tell you a beautiful story? Once, twice - three times....you'll be bored; you heard it already - you know already what it is all about. One more time and it becomes really boring - enough!
> Now, why is it that you can listen to a favorite song over and over again, many many times, day after day, and you don't tire of it?
> And when you get new equipment or tubes etc, you play that same song or songs again to see if you can hear more detail or impact or whatever - you don't get bored and you don't tire of it?
> Why?



Thank you Sir Mordy, your profundity is well noted!

And my enlightened answer is, because music creates an innate emotional response that conversation does not.  There is no "answer" or "idea" in music that, once understood becomes _learned_.  With music we respond by feeling and not comprehension.  Ergo, when that feeling is good we never get.tired of it.  On the contrary we desire _more_.   ...And that's where the rabbit holes come in.


----------



## Celty

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is what I will say about my experience with this thread.
> 
> I first came because it is the most tube-knowledgable thread on Head-Fi, and being a tube nut, I wanted to talk tubes!  But what kept me coming back is the welcoming, humble, honest, and funny group of Head-Fiers that keep the thread alive.  For better or for worse, my time spent on Head-Fi has probably quadrupled since I started hanging out here, as has my post output (sorry guys!).  The knowledge I have gained here talking with Glenn and other regulars has inspired me to follow my own DIY pursuits...and empty my wallet at an unprecendented rate
> 
> ...


lol slow that GIF down!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Celty said:


> lol slow that GIF down!



I can't stop it, it's off the rails!!!  Think every one of those pics is in the thread somewhere though.  Funny thing is, I don't have most of those tubes anymore 



2359glenn said:


> I really have nothing new but here is a pic of my 15 year old preamp after switching the preamp tubes.
> From #26 to E424 they are quieter then the 26.  Made this when DH labs 20ga solid silver wire was $4 a foot.
> No way could I afford it now



Was browsing eBay listings today Glenn, saw a quad of your E424 sold for a good price two days ago, I nearly cried.  Weren't NOS like yours, but tested well and it was an absolute steal.  I have a pair of metallized E424N but would like a clear glass pair.  Curious to hear what you think of the mesh plates.  I can't wait to get these in a proper amp.  It...is...killing me.  Just a few more weeks.


----------



## mordy

Hi Velozity,
Beautiful answer.
My way of looking at it is that music has a higher spiritual source than intellectually understood concepts and thus the feeling that it generates is not limited by the individual's ability to comprehend it. Music is about feeling and not comprehension, and it draws from a source that is higher than the revealed intellect Therefore the listening experience is not limited to the same extent as understanding something, and you can listen to the same tune many times without tiring of it.


----------



## Velozity

Mordy, 
Yes then we are in agreement!  Music is spiritual, and the response that it elicits in us is instinctual.  In fact the difference is our reaction to music occurs on both a conscious _and sub-conscious_ level.  We never sub-consciously hear a story, but we always sub-consciously feel the music.  There's an involuntary element at play.


----------



## Xcalibur255

As I get older I become more and more convinced that it is the workings of the sub-conscious that really controls 90% of who we are and how we live.  I kind of feel like a toddler who's been given one of those Big Bird Playskool steering wheel car seats to hold in my hands so I can think I'm in control of something.


----------



## mordy

Is there any downside to using a Y-splitter and plugging in two sets of headphones at the same time in the GOTL? 
If the impedance isn't the same for the two headphones, will it matter?


----------



## 2359glenn

Velozity said:


> Thank you Sir Mordy, your profundity is well noted!
> 
> And my enlightened answer is, because music creates an innate emotional response that conversation does not.  There is no "answer" or "idea" in music that, once understood becomes _learned_.  With music we respond by feeling and not comprehension.  Ergo, when that feeling is good we never get.tired of it.  On the contrary we desire _more_.   ...And that's where the rabbit holes come in.


Plus the music brings us back to another time when we were young. I love 60s and 70s music


----------



## Monsterzero (Feb 6, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> I love 60s and 70s music


I have a fascination with psych and unknown bands from the 60's and 70's. Theres so much good stuff out there from bands nobody ever heard of. It blows my mind that some of these bands never made it.

For example:


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Plus the music brings us back to another time when we were young. I love 60s and 70s music


In England 70's = Punk Rock. The Damned, Sex Pistols, etc. 60's was probably more similar to the US I guess. Hendrix, Iggy and the Stooges, Rolling Stones, Animals, etc.


----------



## Celty

2359glenn said:


> Plus the music brings us back to another time when we were young. I love 60s and 70s music


I agree that nostalgia era tunes (which of course varies what time period that is with the listener's age) is great. In addition, though, I love listening to music that was "before my time", and learning to appreciate the great artists from the more distant past. I adore hearing Louis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald duets, or Louis Prima and Keely Smith, just to mention a couple examples:


----------



## mordy

I love authentic classic jazz from the 20's that was around many years before I was born. I even liked it before I knew what it was. When I grew up in Sweden there was only one state run radio station and only one program. In the mornings they played all kinds of music. They would play old 20's jazz recordings here and there, and this is how I discovered this music - only later I learned what it was.
After 60 years of listening to classic jazz I still haven't figured out why I like it better than other genres.....
Here is a state of the art electric 1926 recording in glorious mono. I never tire of the piano solo at 1:34 or the trombone break at 2:55.


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> Is there any downside to using a Y-splitter and plugging in two sets of headphones at the same time in the GOTL?
> If the impedance isn't the same for the two headphones, will it matter?


Hi Mordy,

Using Y Cable with multiple headphone will change the global impedance seen from the amplifier.  The global match will then be changed.
 You can see how with this simple calculator : http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-paralresist.htm

Also you will have only one volume pot with different efficiency/sensitivity, power distribution, different listening volume level (Higher impedance will be less powered)!

This will not break your headphone but you will have to turn the volume pot and then you can reach limits when sound is distorded if you want to listen loud. 
[IMO] I personally discourage the Y cable.

You have same issue with speaker : https://geoffthegreygeek.com/multiple-speakers-share-power/


----------



## mordy

hpamdr said:


> Hi Mordy,
> 
> Using Y Cable with multiple headphone will change the global impedance seen from the amplifier.  The global match will then be changed.
> You can see how with this simple calculator : http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-paralresist.htm
> ...


Hi hpamdr,
Thanks for the links. Using two different Sennheiser headphones 300 ohm each reduces the impedance to 150 ohm. My GOTL does not have any problems handling this.

Here is another question: In the past when I plugged in my headphones while speakers were playing, the speaker volume became lower. However, with the tubes I am using now the volume does not change. Why the change?


----------



## leftside

Posted some pics of L77/6C4 that others might be interested in:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/page-4


----------



## Velozity (Feb 7, 2020)

@leftside, nice 6C4 stash!  A man after mine own heart.

The nice FedEx guy left me a package from the UK today with these beauties inside.  My stash is now complete.  Yes the construction is the same as my other MOV CV133.  There's just something about that G.E.C. logo...


----------



## leftside

Velozity said:


> @leftside, nice 6C4 stash!  A man after mine own heart.
> 
> The nice FedEx guy left me a package from the UK today with these beauties inside.  My stash is now complete.  Yes the construction is the same as my other MOV CV133.  There's just something about that G.E.C. logo...


Very nice! I have a single GEC L77 that is slightly different. There are multiple teeth around the micas (rather than the four shown in the pictures). Not sure I'll ever be able to match it up, but I'll keep an eye out. The 4 teeth micas look exactly the same as the micas used in the early B309 (12AT7) and these are my favorite 12AT7's.


----------



## Monsterzero

Does anyone have any experience with an RCA 6J5 "magic eye" tube? An auction popped up today for one.
Im not inclined to buy it as every RCA Ive heard thus far has been super warm,and my system doesnt need that added warmth,but im curious if there is anything special about the Magic Eye 6J5.


----------



## chrisdrop

I have been DAC auditioning and as such, I've fixed the rest of my setup. The amp has been enjoying 2x Sylvania 6J5, 2x RCA 6080 and 2x Bendix 6080 for _a few weeks_. This is the longest I have had one set of valves in. It is all sounding lovely. New DAC trials are fun too. It is still hard to resist the roll urge, but that makes changing other components too impossible to compare. #first-world-problems


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> I have been DAC auditioning and as such, I've fixed the rest of my setup. The amp has been enjoying 2x Sylvania 6J5, 2x RCA 6080 and 2x Bendix 6080 for _a few weeks_. This is the longest I have had one set of valves in. It is all sounding lovely. New DAC trials are fun too. It is still hard to resist the roll urge, but that makes changing other components too impossible to compare. #first-world-problems



I'm not even DAC auditioning and yet I've still had the same power tubes in for several weeks.  Ok, I'm lying, but only a bit.  It's been either 2x or 4x 6080 during that time. Sylvanias, from the '60's.  And I've only gone back and forth between the RCA 6J5 metals and Sylvania 12J5GT's during that time.  Mostly the RCA's.  At this point, I've had 2x RCA 6J5 and 4x Sylvania 6080 in for almost 7 days, with no real need to change it.  

I could have just listened to @mordy and saved a bunch of time (and lots of money) by starting with this combo a while back .


----------



## gibosi

Recently picked up some Siemens EL41. However, I knew when I bought them that Siemens didn't make them. From the pictures it was obvious that they were manufactured by one of the Philips subsidiaries. I couldn't make out any production codes but felt pretty sure they were made in Sittard, Holland. However, now that I have them in my hands, I am quite surprised there are no production codes!. And I wonder if Siemens requested no codes? Anyway, I'm listening to them now, and think they are indeed Sittard-made, but will have compare to a known pair later to be sure.

The EL41 a miniature version of the EL3N, but with less power. Used as drivers in the OTL, they tend to be quieter than EL3N. Nice tubes.


----------



## GDuss

gibosi said:


> Recently picked up some Siemens EL41. However, I knew when I bought them that Siemens didn't make them. From the pictures it was obvious that they were manufactured by one of the Philips subsidiaries. I couldn't make out any production codes but felt pretty sure they were made in Sittard, Holland. However, now that I have them in my hands, I am quite surprised there are no production codes!. And I wonder if Siemens requested no codes? Anyway, I'm listening to them now, and think they are indeed Sittard-made, but will have compare to a known pair later to be sure.
> 
> The EL41 a miniature version of the EL3N, but with less power. Used as drivers in the OTL, they tend to be quieter than EL3N. Nice tubes.



Does the EL41 need its own dedicated adapter e.g. for C3g slots?


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> I have been DAC auditioning and as such, I've fixed the rest of my setup. The amp has been enjoying 2x Sylvania 6J5, 2x RCA 6080 and 2x Bendix 6080 for _a few weeks_. This is the longest I have had one set of valves in. It is all sounding lovely. New DAC trials are fun too. It is still hard to resist the roll urge, but that makes changing other components too impossible to compare. #first-world-problems


Hi Chrisdrop,
Just in case somebody wants to try this recipe, I want to point out that the pair of Sylvania you are using are 6J5GT tubes. There are three variants of the 6J5 tubes: 6J5 all metal black (ugly duckling) tubes, 6J5G which are the ST type (shoulder type) and then the the GT (Glass Tubular) type. There is also a later 6J5WGT tube, which is a more rugged version of the GT tube.
There is another very similar version to the 6J5 metal tube - the 6C5. Since these are plentiful and true bargains I bought several, and I am very happy with them. Really, to me these also sound great with the 4x 6080 (Sylvania/RCA and Bendix style Raytheon graphite plate).
Here is a tube spotters guide:
6J5 - VT94



6J5G



6J5GT



6J5WGT



The earlier versions on the 6C5 -VT65 tubes have the indented "button" top:



Of the above types I prefer the ugly ducklings, (even if they are a little rusty, as long as they measure well lol).....
Many of these come in 12V versions as well but mainly GT versions.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Hi Chrisdrop,
> Just in case somebody wants to try this recipe, I want to point out that the pair of Sylvania you are using are 6J5GT tubes. There are three variants of the 6J5 tubes: 6J5 all metal black (ugly duckling) tubes, 6J5G which are the ST type (shoulder type) and then the the GT (Glass Tubular) type. There is also a later 6J5WGT tube, which is a more rugged version of the GT tube.
> There is another very similar version to the 6J5 metal tube - the 6C5. Since these are plentiful and true bargains I bought several, and I am very happy with them. Really, to me these also sound great with the 4x 6080 (Sylvania/RCA and Bendix style Raytheon graphite plate).
> Here is a tube spotters guide:
> ...



Someone needs to buy the tube in the first photo before I do. I’ve been watching it. Those are the good ones.


----------



## Monsterzero

Does anyone have a 6J5 adapter they can loan me,or sell me? Mine has bitten the dust. Getting sound out of only the left channel.
Ive swapped the tubes from L>R and back and the sound still only comes from the left channel,so its not the tubes themselves.

Glenn is slated to install 6J5 sockets in my amp near the end of the month at the earliest,but currently im dead in the water,and frankly I have no interest in going back to SN7s.

Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## chrisdrop

@Monsterzero -  Sorry to hear you are short-term-banned from 6J5-land. That sucks. 

@mordy - I am a sucker for pictures, so thanks for that. I'd love to get some clear/silvery 6J5Gs like you have pic'd above. I just think they are pretty. I do intend to get more of the 6C5 family too ... OK - let's be honest, I want to get really _all of these things_ in my next bulk-buy session of tube lust (#platonic). 

With all of these kinds of tubes, we are lucky. I really like the ability to get a number of inexpensive tubes (living up to Glenn's goal) and the amp sounds really good, providing entertaining rolls galore. 

That said, I am enjoying - just enjoying right now . I had underestimated how much impact having a nicer DAC around could have on the overall setup. Silly really...


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> Hi hpamdr,
> Thanks for the links. Using two different Sennheiser headphones 300 ohm each reduces the impedance to 150 ohm. My GOTL does not have any problems handling this.
> 
> Here is another question: In the past when I plugged in my headphones while speakers were playing, the speaker volume became lower. However, with the tubes I am using now the volume does not change. Why the change?


I do/will not own a GOTL and do not know how the pre-amp out is implemented.
My guess is that you  you use a tubes combination that lead to more juice at the driver side usually the leading part for pre-amplifier. I do not know how output tube are used if ever for pre-out with GOTL..
// if the speakers are directly attached to the amp using output transformer then output stage is very important but it is another story...

I currently only have F.A. amp (back to Lubliniec for service) which is not a TOTL and do not use pre-out a lot.
My D.A.C. is most of the time directly plugged to my balanced amp _(I like tube for headphone but that much with my speakers)_.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Does anyone have a 6J5 adapter they can loan me,or sell me? Mine has bitten the dust. Getting sound out of only the left channel.
> Ive swapped the tubes from L>R and back and the sound still only comes from the left channel,so its not the tubes themselves.
> 
> Glenn is slated to install 6J5 sockets in my amp near the end of the month at the earliest,but currently im dead in the water,and frankly I have no interest in going back to SN7s.
> ...


I sold the Woo WA22 last week, so have plenty of adapters to also sell. Also have 2 of the 6J5 to 6SN7's adapters. Will PM you later today.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Does anyone have a 6J5 adapter they can loan me,or sell me? Mine has bitten the dust. Getting sound out of only the left channel.
> Ive swapped the tubes from L>R and back and the sound still only comes from the left channel,so its not the tubes themselves.
> 
> Glenn is slated to install 6J5 sockets in my amp near the end of the month at the earliest,but currently im dead in the water,and frankly I have no interest in going back to SN7s.
> ...


Hi M0,
I had the same problem you described with the adapter - only one channel worked. 
The adapter I have is Chinese made. If you look into the holes that take the tube pins you will see that the receptacles for the pins have splines. In my case I think that the splines got pulled too far apart for one of the pins, and thus it would not make contact.
The trick is too gently push together the splines. I did this by using a very small flat blade precision screwdriver (such as used for fixing glasses etc) and wedged the blade between the inside wall of the opening for the socket hole and the spline, slowly working my way around it, and gently pushing the splines closer together. Since I did not know which of the eight socket receptacles was the culprit, I did all of them (although the triode only uses six of them).
Here is a picture that shows the screwdriver in place and socket holes with the splines visible:



Hope this helps....(there could be other causes, but as they say in the medical profession: If you see hoof prints in the sand, you think horse and not zebra!)


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> I sold the Woo WA22 last week, so have plenty of adapters to also sell. Also have 2 of the 6J5 to 6SN7's adapters. Will PM you later today.



dude! You just made my day! Ive been all grumpy this morning,and now im a happy old man!


mordy said:


> Hi M0,
> I had the same problem you described with the adapter - only one channel worked.
> The adapter I have is Chinese made. If you look into the holes that take the tube pins you will see that the receptacles for the pins have splines. In my case I think that the splines got pulled too far apart for one of the pins, and thus it would not make contact.
> The trick is too gently push together the splines. I did this by using a very small flat blade precision screwdriver (such as used for fixing glasses etc) and wedged the blade between the inside wall of the opening for the socket hole and the spline, slowly working my way around it, and gently pushing the splines closer together. Since I did not know which of the eight socket receptacles was the culprit, I did all of them (although the triode only uses six of them).
> ...



Thanks Mordy! Mine is the same Chinese adapter as yours. Assuming the splines are the issue,which side should I focus on? Meaning if youre looking at the adapter with the guide key facing you is the left side on the left or right? My eyes are really bad and it would help me to know which side is which.


----------



## chrisdrop

Monsterzero said:


> dude! You just made my day! Ive been all grumpy this morning,and now im a happy old man!
> 
> 
> Thanks Mordy! Mine is the same Chinese adapter as yours. Assuming the splines are the issue,which side should I focus on? Meaning if youre looking at the adapter with the guide key facing you is the left side on the left or right? My eyes are really bad and it would help me to know which side is which.


FWIW - my Deyan adapter has been rock solid after a boatload of rolling these things... It won't be tomorrow, but give him a "call".


----------



## Monsterzero

chrisdrop said:


> FWIW - my Deyan adapter has been rock solid after a boatload of rolling these things... It won't be tomorrow, but give him a "call".


Ive purchased a few adapters from Deyan and they actually take longer to arrive than the Chinese ones. Upwards of 3-4 weeks,which by then,hopefully,my amp will be back with Glenn.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> dude! You just made my day! Ive been all grumpy this morning,and now im a happy old man!
> 
> 
> Thanks Mordy! Mine is the same Chinese adapter as yours. Assuming the splines are the issue,which side should I focus on? Meaning if youre looking at the adapter with the guide key facing you is the left side on the left or right? My eyes are really bad and it would help me to know which side is which.


Looking at the adapter with the guide key facing you, the right tube is the left channel. (Confusing, eh?)


----------



## Monsterzero

I have eight 6SN7 up for sale in the classifieds,including the Mullard ECC35. Drop me a PM if interested. Also selling my 12SN7s,including a GEC B36.


----------



## mordy

What do you get with two pianos and a drummer? In this case happy music. Playing on old standard "Royal Garden Blues" with great vitality and taste - this music makes me happy.


----------



## leftside

This is how much a single crappy looking/untested GEC 12AU7 will cost you:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/362903465336

The twin L77/6C4 looks like a better proposition. Even with adapters, they are far cheaper.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> This is how much a single crappy looking/untested GEC 12AU7 will cost you:
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/362903465336
> 
> The twin L77/6C4 looks like a better proposition. Even with adapters, they are far cheaper.


Have you been able to compare the sound of 6C4 to 6J5? I am trying to limit my tube purchases and unless there is a marked improvement I will hold off on buying more stuff.


----------



## Velozity

leftside said:


> This is how much a single crappy looking/untested GEC 12AU7 will cost you:
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/362903465336
> 
> The twin L77/6C4 looks like a better proposition. Even with adapters, they are far cheaper.




Yeah I was following that auction too.  Too bad it's so used and untested.  Definitely a good idea to grab the L77/CV133/6C4 single-triode versions.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Have you been able to compare the sound of 6C4 to 6J5? I am trying to limit my tube purchases and unless there is a marked improvement I will hold off on buying more stuff.


It will be a while until my adapters arrive. I doubt there will be a marked improvement over 6J5. For me, it's just part of the hobby, and a fun thing to try without too much expense. I do like the 12AT7/12AU7/12AX7 tubes a lot in my other gear, so this is simply the chance to try a slight variation also in my headphone amp.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi M0,
> I had the same problem you described with the adapter - only one channel worked.
> The adapter I have is Chinese made. If you look into the holes that take the tube pins you will see that the receptacles for the pins have splines. In my case I think that the splines got pulled too far apart for one of the pins, and thus it would not make contact.
> The trick is too gently push together the splines. I did this by using a very small flat blade precision screwdriver (such as used for fixing glasses etc) and wedged the blade between the inside wall of the opening for the socket hole and the spline, slowly working my way around it, and gently pushing the splines closer together. Since I did not know which of the eight socket receptacles was the culprit, I did all of them (although the triode only uses six of them).
> ...


Mordy, Glad you are still active here. 

For the adapter, I think you can use a multi-meter to check the connections and find out which socket hole has a problem. Then use a socket protector, and put some silver on the pin to make a better connection. Just a thought.   Your friend Monster can also give it a try.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Mordy, Glad you are still active here.
> 
> For the adapter, I think you can use a multi-meter to check the connections and find out which socket hole has a problem. Then use a socket protector, and put some silver on the pin to make a better connection. Just a thought.   Your friend Monster can also give it a try.


Hi attmci,
I am not sure if I understand correctly what you are saying: do you mean to add some solder to a socket saver pin to increase the diameter of the pin to get better contact?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

For your consideration, gentlemen, a good price for these tubes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/352967043588?ul_noapp=true


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> For your consideration, gentlemen, a good price for these tubes.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/352967043588?ul_noapp=true


Bought them!  Thanks - now just need the adapter for my GOTL


----------



## chrisdrop

Zachik said:


> Bought them!  Thanks - now just need the adapter for my GOTL


I hesitated just that one moment too long!!! Good catch.


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> I hesitated just that one moment too long!


That summarizes MANY of my misses... 
Did not hesitate this time, as I was debating 6C5 already...


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> I am not sure if I understand correctly what you are saying: do you mean to add some solder to a socket saver pin to increase the diameter of the pin to get better contact?


Yes, Sir.


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> Bought them! Thanks - now just need the adapter for my GOTL


Quick question:
I already have an adapter from Deyan for: 2 x 6J5 to 6SN7. 
Would same adapter work for 2 x 6C5 to 6SN7 ?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Quick question:
> I already have an adapter from Deyan for: 2 x 6J5 to 6SN7.
> Would same adapter work for 2 x 6C5 to 6SN7 ?



Yessir, same pinout, same adapter


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yessir, same pinout, same adapter


Does Deyan's adapter come with pins 1&8 connected?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Does Deyan's adapter come with pins 1&8 connected?



I am sure you could have him build the adpater with pins 1 and 8 connected, the one I have from him does not have them connected.  Could be modified easily though.


----------



## Celty

For you Glenn owners, a question. Would you go with a Gold Point stepped attenuator or something like an Alps?


----------



## 2359glenn

Celty said:


> For you Glenn owners, a question. Would you go with a Gold Point stepped attenuator or something like an Alps?



The gold point is really good but I just not sure if it improves the sound that much over the Alps Blue Velvet.


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Quick question:
> I already have an adapter from Deyan for: 2 x 6J5 to 6SN7.
> Would same adapter work for 2 x 6C5 to 6SN7 ?



Yes it will work for both tubes


----------



## heliosphann

Thought I'd post here before I list it, but I'm going to sell my Cavalli Liquid Crimson. If you're interested or know anyone who might be, send me a PM. Like to find it a good home!


----------



## Zachik

Celty said:


> For you Glenn owners, a question. Would you go with a Gold Point stepped attenuator or something like an Alps?


From what I know, the main advantage for stepped attenuator is better channel balance at LOW volume.
At normal (or loud) listening volumes - I do not think either is better or worse.
Gold Point is very expensive compared to Alps, and there is also the matter of whether you like the smooth "analog" movement of the Alps or do you prefer the "digital" stepped movement.  When I say "digital" I mean it is not continuous, but rather 24 or 47 "clicks"...


----------



## Celty

2359glenn said:


> The gold point is really good but I just not sure if it improves the sound that much over the Alps Blue Velvet.





Zachik said:


> From what I know, the main advantage for stepped attenuator is better channel balance at LOW volume.
> At normal (or loud) listening volumes - I do not think either is better or worse.
> Gold Point is very expensive compared to Alps, and there is also the matter of whether you like the smooth "analog" movement of the Alps or do you prefer the "digital" stepped movement.  When I say "digital" I mean it is not continuous, but rather 24 or 47 "clicks"...


Thanks, I think the Alps may be the right way to go for me


----------



## Zachik

Celty said:


> Thanks, I think the Alps may be the right way to go for me


I did the same with both of my Glenn amps


----------



## whirlwind

Celty said:


> For you Glenn owners, a question. Would you go with a Gold Point stepped attenuator or something like an Alps?




I have one of each and I hear no difference in the sound.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The Glenn OTL with Quad of 6080's and a pair of NOS NU 12J5's...



I love this song by Joan Armatrading.   The whole album is some of the absolute best "digitally recorded music" in my collection (and I have a lot).

Clear the decks, sit back, close your eyes, turn it up,and let Joan wash over you.

Thank You, Glenn...for my OTL.   I love it.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> The Glenn OTL with Quad of 6080's and a pair of NOS NU 12J5's...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Glad you like!

I just got a NOS pair of GE 6J5 metal tubes and I put them my headphone amp in place of the L63s
Dam these tubes sound good for $5 for a NOS pair in original boxes.  If I didn't have the L63s I could live with with the GEs


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Glad you like!
> 
> I just got a NOS pair of GE 6J5 metal tubes and I put them my headphone amp in place of the L63s
> Dam these tubes sound good for $5 for a NOS pair in original boxes.  If I didn't have the L63s I could live with with the GEs


Shhhh, don't let the cat out of the bag! I have been running metal 6J5 RCA, TS and now GEs for weeks. IMHO these sound better than the ST glass and straight glass 6J5 variants.
Ugly rusty ducklings or little hand grenades, but they sound just great! And even better after burning them in.....


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Shhhh, don't let the cat out of the bag! I have been running metal 6J5 RCA, TS and now GEs for weeks. IMHO these sound better than the ST glass and straight glass 6J5 variants.
> Ugly rusty ducklings or little hand grenades, but they sound just great! And even better after burning them in.....



These GEs look brand new and I don't think the metal tubes look bad.  Even though no glow they are kind of cool.
So far sounding great only been on for 1hr now. Haven't burned them in think I will leave them in for awhile and give the L63s a break.
Will see how they sound in my morning listening session.  At 3:30 am just me and a cup of coffee and music.


----------



## DecentLevi

Is this the type of RCA 6J5 that is been praised here recently? This is the type that I bought for my upcoming amp, which is also said AKA as VT-94


----------



## mordy

Yes - that's it. The military designation for 6J5 was VT94 (VT=Vacuum Tube).


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Shhhh, don't let the cat out of the bag! I have been running metal 6J5 RCA, TS and now GEs for weeks. IMHO these sound better than the ST glass and straight glass 6J5 variants.
> Ugly rusty ducklings or little hand grenades, but they sound just great! And even better after burning them in.....





Decided to send this Ken-Rad to the beauty salon:



A little black silicone makeup and a blue rubber band and the rust disappeared....
Now I have to send it for forensic analysis to have it dated. The only thing I know is that it measured 100%.


----------



## audiofest2018

Need some advise if it is worth to buy 6N12S MELZ tube for Glenn GOTL?  I do not own a Glen GOTL amp as of now but am on the waiting list and hope to get one soon.  I have been buying some NOS tubes from the recommendations of this thread and am interested in buying these Russian tubes.   Are these Russian 6N12S MELZ tube any good?  Thanks in advance for the feedbacks.


----------



## mordy

audiofest2018 said:


> Need some advise if it is worth to buy 6N12S MELZ tube for Glenn GOTL?  I do not own a Glen GOTL amp as of now but am on the waiting list and hope to get one soon.  I have been buying some NOS tubes from the recommendations of this thread and am interested in buying these Russian tubes.   Are these Russian 6N12S MELZ tube any good?  Thanks in advance for the feedbacks.


Hi a2018,
Cannot recall anybody who tried these tubes but it seems to me that they are a Russian 6SN7 type tube although drawing 0.9A instead of 0.6A.
My impression is that some of the forum members are steering away from the dual triodes of the 6SN7 family because using two single triodes of the same family produces better sound. Since the GOTL uses a single 6SN7 socket, you only need one pair of these triodes together with an adapter.
There are plenty of very inexpensive great sounding triodes available. Instead of the Melz tubes, buy a couple of 6J5 metal tubes and an adapter 2x6J5 to 6SN7. (I have also heard that there were quality problems with Melz tubes and because of this one manufacturer gave up on using them.)


----------



## audiofest2018

mordy said:


> Hi a2018,
> Cannot recall anybody who tried these tubes but it seems to me that they are a Russian 6SN7 type tube although drawing 0.9A instead of 0.6A.
> My impression is that some of the forum members are steering away from the dual triodes of the 6SN7 family because using two single triodes of the same family produces better sound. Since the GOTL uses a single 6SN7 socket, you only need one pair of these triodes together with an adapter.
> There are plenty of very inexpensive great sounding triodes available. Instead of the Melz tubes, buy a couple of 6J5 metal tubes and an adapter 2x6J5 to 6SN7. (I have also heard that there were quality problems with Melz tubes and because of this one manufacturer gave up on using them.)


Thanks for the inputs @mordy !
I do have some 6J5 and 6c5 pairs with adaptors used on my other amp that uses 6SN 7 while I am waiting for my GOTL.  They in general sound a bit more sweet and musical to me compared to other 6SN7 tubes.  I also have heard about Melz QC issue as well.  I think I will skip these tubes for now.  Thanks again.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey guys any recommendations on a sub-$800 DAC? I don't have enough for a LampiZator yet but at least want a temporary upgrade from this mediocre Modi 2 Multibit that I've been stuck with for years, especially for my upcoming Glenn amp. So far my best option is the Bifrost 2 multibit but I'm wondering if there's any other recommendations in this price range, or even suggestions on a good used deal on something better? Would love the Qutest option but the used deals are still a bit much for now.


----------



## DecentLevi

edited error above ^


----------



## whirlwind

DecentLevi said:


> Hey guys any recommendations on a sub-$800 DAC? I don't have enough for a LampiZator yet but at least want a temporary upgrade from this mediocre Modi 2 Multibit that I've been stuck with for years, especially for my upcoming Glenn amp. So far my best option is the Bifrost 2 multibit but I'm wondering if there's any other recommendations in this price range, or even suggestions on a good used deal on something better? Would love the Qutest option but the used deals are still a bit much for now.




With this budget I would definitely be looking in the B/S/T forums. You could get a better bang for the buck.
Here is an example  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-gungnir-analog-2-gen5-usb-like-new.925170/

Maybe could do better with some patience.


----------



## DecentLevi

Thanks, though between the Bifrost and Gungnir, I was told from one of the most seasoned veteran hobbyists around here that the Bifrost 2 comes extremely close to the performance of the Yggy 2 and edges out the Gungnir 2 in performance unless you're using the balanced output.


----------



## Zachik

DecentLevi said:


> Hey guys any recommendations on a sub-$800 DAC? I don't have enough for a LampiZator yet but at least want a temporary upgrade from this mediocre Modi 2 Multibit that I've been stuck with for years, especially for my upcoming Glenn amp. So far my best option is the Bifrost 2 multibit but I'm wondering if there's any other recommendations in this price range, or even suggestions on a good used deal on something better? Would love the Qutest option but the used deals are still a bit much for now.


My Metrum Amethyst that is FS?  
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...s-dac-amp-lowered-price.923025/#post-15411565

Shameless plug, I know, but could not resist it...


----------



## gibosi

Today I received four EL42 manufactured by Philips Argentina. Philips had a major presence in Argentina since 1938, when they established FAPESA (Fabrica Argentina de Productos Electronicos S.A.), and by 1940, they were locally manufacturing vacuum tubes and other radio components.

Unfortunately, these particular tubes have no date codes, but judging from the halo getter, I would guess the early 1960's.

And interestingly, as of 2009, Philips Argentina was still in operation, selling TV sets, audio equipment, illumination products and small home appliances.

Hope to have some time to clean the pins and roll them in over the weekend.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Today I received four EL42 manufactured by Philips Argentina. Philips had a major presence in Argentina since 1938, when they established FAPESA (Fabrica Argentina de Productos Electronicos S.A.), and by 1940, they were locally manufacturing vacuum tubes and other radio components.
> 
> Unfortunately, these particular tubes have no date codes, but judging from the halo getter, I would guess the early 1960's.
> 
> ...


Hi gibosi,
Do you think that the letters UN on the tube is a date code?
Using the alphabet and starting another sequence of 1-12 from the letter N, I could make a case for 1958 January, but this is a shot in the Argentine dark.....


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> Today I received four EL42 manufactured by Philips Argentina. Philips had a major presence in Argentina since 1938, when they established FAPESA (Fabrica Argentina de Productos Electronicos S.A.), and by 1940, they were locally manufacturing vacuum tubes and other radio components.
> 
> Unfortunately, these particular tubes have no date codes, but judging from the halo getter, I would guess the early 1960's.
> 
> ...


What adapter would you need for these to use in the GOTL?


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Hi a2018,
> Cannot recall anybody who tried these tubes but it seems to me that they are a Russian 6SN7 type tube although drawing 0.9A instead of 0.6A.
> My impression is that some of the forum members are steering away from the dual triodes of the 6SN7 family because using two single triodes of the same family produces better sound. Since the GOTL uses a single 6SN7 socket, you only need one pair of these triodes together with an adapter.
> There are plenty of very inexpensive great sounding triodes available. Instead of the Melz tubes, buy a couple of 6J5 metal tubes and an adapter 2x6J5 to 6SN7. (I have also heard that there were quality problems with Melz tubes and because of this one manufacturer gave up on using them.)



If the heater current draw is 50% higher I would take that to mean the tube is trying to be a Russian ECC32 equivalent rather than a 6SN7 equivalent.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> If the heater current draw is 50% higher I would take that to mean the tube is trying to be a Russian ECC32 equivalent rather than a 6SN7 equivalent.


You are right - there is no US made tube that is the exact equivalent as far as I know ( except for the Sheldon Hi-Po 6S78 LOL).


----------



## mordy

OK X255, just in case you are wondering, the Sheldon is listed as 0.8A, and it could be that it is an UOFS tube.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1470#post-14447012
Please read post  #22,042.


----------



## audiofest2018

Xcalibur255 said:


> If the heater current draw is 50% higher I would take that to mean the tube is trying to be a Russian ECC32 equivalent rather than a 6SN7 equivalent.


So I guess since this is close to ECC32 so probably a driver tube in GOTL amp (6SN7) rather than 6BX7 or 6BL7 output tubes?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi gibosi,
> Do you think that the letters UN on the tube is a date code?
> Using the alphabet and starting another sequence of 1-12 from the letter N, I could make a case for 1958 January, but this is a shot in the Argentine dark.....



Anything is possible. But since these were manufactured in a Philips subsidiary, I would expect to see their production code. Why would they invent a new one? But again, I do not know.


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> What adapter would you need for these to use in the GOTL?



An EL42 to C3g adapter. I got mine from Deyan. And the same adapter will accommodate EL41 as well.


----------



## gibosi

audiofest2018 said:


> So I guess since this is close to ECC32 so probably a driver tube in GOTL amp (6SN7) rather than 6BX7 or 6BL7 output tubes?



Or think 6N7 with separate cathodes. So yes, in the GOTL, it would be best used as a driver.


----------



## audiofest2018

gibosi said:


> Or think 6N7 with separate cathodes. So yes, in the GOTL, it would be best used as a driver.


Thanks!


----------



## attmci (Feb 14, 2020)

gibosi said:


> Or think 6N7 with separate cathodes. So yes, in the GOTL, it would be best used as a driver.


Ken, How are you doing?

Do you use 596 tube? Do you like it?

Glenn must have given you some, and sell you the adapter. LOL

He introduced the tube, then the price goes from $15 to $90, $150, and now $300 at W O O.

A guy is selling RK60 for over $400 on the east bay, here is one for $45:

https://vacuumtubesinc.com/index.php/vacuum-tubes/nos-audio-tubes/1641-rk60.html


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> An EL42 to C3g adapter. I got mine from Deyan. And the same adapter will accommodate EL41 as well.


Thanks - added to my compatibility table


----------



## whirlwind

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks, though between the Bifrost and Gungnir, I was told from one of the most seasoned veteran hobbyists around here that the Bifrost 2 comes extremely close to the performance of the Yggy 2 and edges out the Gungnir 2 in performance unless you're using the balanced output.



Well if it is as close to Yggy 2 as some say....maybe you cant get a better deal for $800


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Ken, How are you doing?
> 
> Do you use 596 tube? Do you like it?
> 
> ...



I'm barely hanging in there... lol 
And you?

I haven't rolled the 596 in a very long time. Maybe I should get reacquainted someday.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

2359glenn said:


> Glad you like!
> 
> I just got a NOS pair of GE 6J5 metal tubes and I put them my headphone amp in place of the L63s
> Dam these tubes sound good for $5 for a NOS pair in original boxes.  If I didn't have the L63s I could live with with the GEs


I will start off with my tube purchase once you start the built of my amp..... so holding onto the toob rolling buds till then.....


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

DecentLevi said:


> Hey guys any recommendations on a sub-$800 DAC? I don't have enough for a LampiZator yet but at least want a temporary upgrade from this mediocre Modi 2 Multibit that I've been stuck with for years, especially for my upcoming Glenn amp. So far my best option is the Bifrost 2 multibit but I'm wondering if there's any other recommendations in this price range, or even suggestions on a good used deal on something better? Would love the Qutest option but the used deals are still a bit much for now.


If you have a taste of R2R NOS....... Amethyst is one of the best as per my personal experience.....


----------



## mordy

Would you trust this seller?



*6J7 VACUUM TUBE LOT OF 4. BLACK Metal Can Type. RCA, VINTAGE*


Condition:
Used

“VISUALLY INSPECTED, LOOK AND FEEL GOOD”

Who said that there is no humor on eBay?
In case you missed some details, here they are:
The tubes are 6SK7, not 6J7
There are three tubes in the picture, but advertised as four
Not sure if rust and tape on the tube qualifies for "look good"
Do the tubes "feel good"? I leave that to you.....


----------



## mordy

On a more serious note, maybe somebody has a solution for this problem that I have:
I have four sets of headphones next to each other, hanging off my equipment rack. The cords get entangled in each other.
Any easy way to keep them separate?


----------



## maxpudding

mordy said:


> On a more serious note, maybe somebody has a solution for this problem that I have:
> I have four sets of headphones next to each other, hanging off my equipment rack. The cords get entangled in each other.
> Any easy way to keep them separate?



Hi mordy, I use those cheap velcro cable tape/tie. Also wondering what others use to manage their headphone cables.


----------



## mordy

maxpudding said:


> Hi mordy, I use those cheap velcro cable tape/tie. Also wondering what others use to manage their headphone cables.


You use a piece of velcro to bundle up the headphone cable?


----------



## maxpudding

mordy said:


> You use a piece of velcro to bundle up the headphone cable?



I use straps of velcro and wrap each cable into small bundles. Maybe not ideal but it solve the tangle issue for me


----------



## gibosi

DecentLevi said:


> Hey guys any recommendations on a sub-$800 DAC? I don't have enough for a LampiZator yet but at least want a temporary upgrade from this mediocre Modi 2 Multibit that I've been stuck with for years, especially for my upcoming Glenn amp. So far my best option is the Bifrost 2 multibit but I'm wondering if there's any other recommendations in this price range, or even suggestions on a good used deal on something better? Would love the Qutest option but the used deals are still a bit much for now.



Audio-gd has some offerings in that price range that might be worth checking out.


----------



## chrisdrop

Anyone feeling really 6J5 metal case frisky?


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> Anyone feeling really 6J5 metal case frisky?



All I know is I bought two GE 6J5s metal tubes NOS NIB for $5 and they give the GEC L63s that I paid $150 for a pair a run for the money.
Not really worth spending big bucks when these cheep tubes sound so good !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Not really worth spending big bucks when these cheep tubes sound so good !!!!!!!!!!


NOW you tell me?!?!
(just kidding, you've been saying that since day 1...)


----------



## chrisdrop

Trying to keep playing. I have some ugly 6C5s coming tomorrow. Cheap via Langrex. Let's see how they go.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> All I know is I bought two GE 6J5s metal tubes NOS NIB for $5 and they give the GEC L63s that I paid $150 for a pair a run for the money.
> Not really worth spending big bucks when these cheep tubes sound so good !!!!!!!!!!



I missed the memo on this one too.  Since people think they are ugly, these metallized 6J5 should be plentiful for years.  Who knows, in a decade we might be in a multi-hundred dollar bidding war for them


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I missed the memo on this one too.  Since people think they are ugly, these metallized 6J5 should be plentiful for years.  Who knows, in a decade we might be in a multi-hundred dollar bidding war for them



Who knows but there isn't anything in current production that can compare to them in SQ.


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> Trying to keep playing. I have some ugly 6C5s coming tomorrow. Cheap via Langrex. Let's see how they go.


Let us know how they sound, once you get them.
BTW, how cheap were they? (knowing shipping to US will be a little pricey unless combined with other crap tubes )


----------



## chrisdrop (Feb 16, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Let us know how they sound, once you get them.
> BTW, how cheap were they? (knowing shipping to US will be a little pricey unless combined with other crap tubes )



FWIW, while I jokingly call them "ugly", I don't mind the look at all. If they sound good, they are good. After all, I suspect I won't be winning any appearance prizes myself, so who am I to judge!

They were £5 ($6.5) each.

They have quite a few in the 6J5 family that I was going to order. I didn't, because I am really enjoying my listening as it is! Still on my several weeks Sylvania 6J5GTs.

I am on some kind of listening record today after waking at 4:30 AM due to storm Dennis. I have been listening for almost 12h so far!

Happy listening.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> FWIW, while I jokingly call them "ugly", I don't mind the look at all. If they sound good, they are good.



I actually like the way they look, mixed in with 4-6 glass bottles behind them.

The metal meatball RCA 6J5 (or 6C5) is still my favorite of the metal tubes.  They just sound "right" with everything I listen to.


----------



## leftside

I'm quite partial to the metal tubes as well to mix things up a bit. I prefer the new/clean looking ones, but have to admit having a bit of rust on them gives the amp a "steam punk" look. Also have red and tall silver metal tubes.

I don't think we'll run out of cheap 6J5 tubes in any of our lifetimes. I also don't think we'll run out of 6SN7 either, but of course they tend to be a little more pricey.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> I'm quite partial to the metal tubes as well to mix things up a bit. I prefer the new/clean looking ones, but have to admit having a bit of rust on them gives the amp a "steam punk" look. Also have red and tall silver metal tubes.
> 
> I don't think we'll run out of cheap 6J5 tubes in any of our lifetimes. I also don't think we'll run out of 6SN7 either, but of course they tend to be a little more pricey.


There is no doubt in my mind that the high priced sellers are reading our posts - just watch the prices shoot up!




This lot is NOT $3 each - it goes for $195.00...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Vintage-...615654?hash=item3fd06b0aa6:g:UlMAAOSwxlxdvhjA


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> There is no doubt in my mind that the high priced sellers are reading our posts - just watch the prices shoot up!
> 
> This lot is NOT $3 each - it goes for $195.00...
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Vintage-...615654?hash=item3fd06b0aa6:g:UlMAAOSwxlxdvhjA


Ah BangyBang... Bit more reasonable here, and I'm sure there are cheaper. This was just the first listing I came across.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/MATCHED-PAI...-VACUUM-TUBES-6J5-6L5G-WT390-L63/293167075849


----------



## Monsterzero

OK,I admit perhaps Ive been asleep at the wheel lately,but can someone help me out? 
Whats the difference between a 6C5 and a 6J5?


----------



## leftside (Feb 16, 2020)

Monsterzero said:


> OK,I admit perhaps Ive been asleep at the wheel lately,but can someone help me out?
> Whats the difference between a 6C5 and a 6J5?


http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=13691.0;wap2

The 6C5G also have a cool looking mesh plate 

I'll also be trying out another family member - the 76 tube - once my 76 to 6J5 adapters arrive. I think I have RCA, Raytheon and Fivre to try.

I also agree with this guy:
https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/14/140776.html

The Fivre 6C5G do sometimes appear on eBay for reasonable prices.


----------



## audiofest2018

mordy said:


> There is no doubt in my mind that the high priced sellers are reading our posts - just watch the prices shoot up!
> 
> This lot is NOT $3 each - it goes for $195.00...
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Vintage-...615654?hash=item3fd06b0aa6:g:UlMAAOSwxlxdvhjA


I would also try to avoid this seller.  I was about to purchase some NOS tubes from them awhile back until I read some unfavorable online reviews.  Just my opinion


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=13691.0;wap2
> 
> The 6C5G also have a cool looking mesh plate
> 
> I'll also be trying out another family member - the 76 tube - once my 76 to 6J5 adapters arrive. I think I have RCA, Raytheon and Fivre to try.


OK,so other than plate resistance the C5 and J5 are using the same pin-out,etc...?
Then on we go to the 76 and 37 mentioned in that thread you linked,yet you need an adapter for it? 

Im aiming to move away from adapters entirely,except for in the rectifier slot. Me no like hum.


----------



## cddc (Feb 16, 2020)

mordy said:


> There is no doubt in my mind that the high priced sellers are reading our posts - just watch the prices shoot up!
> 
> This lot is NOT $3 each - it goes for $195.00...
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Vintage-...615654?hash=item3fd06b0aa6:g:UlMAAOSwxlxdvhjA




*BangyBang* is a notorious tube scammer for long time. Every tube roller should keep the name in mind.

@attmci mentioned *menifee_audio* is likely also BangyBang.


----------



## leftside (Feb 16, 2020)

Looks like there is also 6L5. Haven't tried those yet, but just picked up a pair of NU 1940's black plate, foil getter. These tubes seem to cost betweet $8 - $15 each - which is ridiculous when you compare to the price of a similar 1940's black plate/foil getter 6SN7.

Edit: I was talking about the ST shape NU 6L5G.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> OK,so other than plate resistance the C5 and J5 are using the same pin-out,etc...?
> Then on we go to the 76 and 37 mentioned in that thread you linked,yet you need an adapter for it?
> 
> Im aiming to move away from adapters entirely,except for in the rectifier slot. Me no like hum.


If you have 6J5 slots, you'll need a 76 to 6J5 adapter. I guess I've been lucky with my adapters, as I've never experienced a humming with any of them. If you have 6J5 slots, then you can use 6P5, 6C5 and 6L5 directly.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> If you have 6J5 slots, you'll need a 76 to 6J5 adapter. I guess I've been lucky with my adapters, as I've never experienced a humming with any of them. If you have 6J5 slots, then you can use 6P5, 6C5 and 6L5 directly.



Nice to see that folks are finally getting around to the 76. I recommend the RCA.


----------



## mordy

Re Bangy BB - how can they have 100% positive feedback with all the complaints? Mystery....


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Looks like there is also 6L5. Haven't tried those yet, but just picked up a pair of NU 1940's black plate, foil getter. These tubes seem to cost betweet $8 - $15 each - which is ridiculous when you compare to the price of a similar 1940's black plate/foil getter 6SN7.


I did notice that the 6L5G tube is a predecessor to the 6C4 which is roughly half a 12AU7.


----------



## cddc

mordy said:


> Re Bangy BB - how can they have 100% positive feedback with all the complaints? Mystery....



Those poor victims....LOL....feel sorry for them


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> I did notice that the 6L5G tube is a predecessor to the 6C4 which is roughly half a 12AU7.


Where did you see that info?


----------



## leftside

leftside said:


> Where did you see that info?


I'll answer my own question:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6c4.html

This is probably why the 6C4/L77 are so suitable in the 6J5 sockets (with adapters). We should build a family tree


----------



## 2359glenn

Has anybody tried the 6L5G tube yet and how does it sound?
This tube is close to 1/2 a 6AH7 that I didn't like the sound of when I tried it.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Has anybody tried the 6L5G tube yet and how does it sound?
> This tube is close to 1/2 a 6AH7 that I didn't like the sound of when I tried it.


Ordered, but not yet arrived.


----------



## mordy (Feb 16, 2020)

leftside said:


> I'll answer my own question:
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6c4.html
> 
> This is probably why the 6C4/L77 are so suitable in the 6J5 sockets (with adapters). We should build a family tree


We use the same source....

I am sure that you already know about the next item, but it may be helpful to others.
Another source that I found useful is a free pinout guide. You input a specific tube, and you can then search for other tubes with the same pinout. This is a way to look for lesser known tubes that may function the same way.
https://tdsl-personal-edition.software.informer.com/1.1/
And speaking about researching things, and as mentioned before, by going to Google images and typing in the item you are looking for, you may pick up other sources where to buy the item, on a global scale.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Another source that I found useful is a free pinout guide. You input a specific tube, and you can then search for other tubes with the same pinout. This is a way to look for lesser known tubes that may function the same way.
> https://tdsl-personal-edition.software.informer.com/1.1/


What OS do you run it on?
Looks like a Win95 application... Wondering if it even runs on Win10...


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> OK,so other than plate resistance the C5 and J5 are using the same pin-out,etc...?
> Then on we go to the 76 and 37 mentioned in that thread you linked,yet you need an adapter for it?
> 
> *Im aiming to move away from adapters entirely,except for in the rectifier slot. Me no like hum.*



I use adapters all the time, and perhaps I'm lucky, but none of them hum.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> What OS do you run it on?
> Looks like a Win95 application... Wondering if it even runs on Win10...


Hi Z,
The 1.1 version works fine on my Win10. Oldies but goodies lol.....


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Hi Z,
> The 1.1 version works fine on my Win10. Oldies but goodies lol.....


Like us?


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Like us?


It’s not your age, it’s how you feel -
you can still be a curious teenager in your 70’s!


----------



## 2359glenn

Just got done with my 3:30 am listening session.  Took out the GE 6J5s and put back in the GEC L63.
The L63 does sound much better.  Have to get  a assortment of cheep 6J5s to try other brands.
$4 at ESRC easy to play with these tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Just got done with my 3:30 am listening session.  Took out the GE 6J5s and put back in the GEC L63.
> The L63 does sound much better.  Have to get  a assortment of cheep 6J5s to try other brands.
> $4 at ESRC easy to play with these tubes.




The Sylvania 6J5's are nice sounding tubes.


----------



## chrisdrop

whirlwind said:


> The Sylvania 6J5's are nice sounding tubes.


These are my current mainstay inputs.


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> These are my current mainstay inputs.



Agree about the Sylvania 6J5's. the RCA, and Tung Sol are also nice but my favorites are the NU.

.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> Just got done with my 3:30 am listening session.  Took out the GE 6J5s and put back in the GEC L63.
> The L63 does sound much better.  Have to get  a assortment of cheep 6J5s to try other brands.
> $4 at ESRC easy to play with these tubes.


Hi Glenn,
Suggest trying the 6C5 tubes as well - should be equally inexpensive.
Here is another questiono you think that the same tube may sound different in the versions of your amp that use a rectifier vs Hexfred?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn,
> Suggest trying the 6C5 tubes as well - should be equally inexpensive.
> Here is another questiono you think that the same tube may sound different in the versions of your amp that use a rectifier vs Hexfred?



Of course. The choice of rectifier colors every other tube in the amp.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Of course. The choice of rectifier colors every other tube in the amp.


Is it possible to duplicate the sound of the  Hexfred by choosing a specific rectifier?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Is it possible to duplicate the sound of the  Hexfred by choosing a specific rectifier?



I cannot say for sure as I don't have two identical amps, one with built-in Hexfred and one with tube rectification. However, I feel quite certain that when a plug-in HEXFRED is installed in an amp built to use tube rectification, the sound is essentially the same.

It's a little ugly but works fine.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Is your hearing fresher at 3:30 am?  I've never tried this.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> I cannot say for sure as I don't have two identical amps, one with built-in Hexfred and one with tube rectification. However, I feel quite certain that when a plug-in HEXFRED is installed in an amp built to use tube rectification, the sound is essentially the same.
> 
> It's a little ugly but works fine.


I found some soft black plastic caps that fit perfectly over these and hides the epoxy.  They were just a couple of dollars off eBay.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> Is your hearing fresher at 3:30 am?  I've never tried this.


I am normally not up at this time, but for sure my equipment sounds better late at night (or very early in the morning). I assume it is because of less electrical noise and interference from appliances etc etc.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I am normally not up at this time, but for sure my equipment sounds better late at night (or very early in the morning). I assume it is because of less electrical noise and interference from appliances etc etc.



Or, you have less distractions at these times,  and are better able to concentrate...?

.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Or, you have less distractions at these times,  and are better able to concentrate...?
> 
> .


Hi JV,
Being retired and being mostly alone in the house during the day, I don't think that there are fewer distractions one time or another. IMHO my system many times seems to sound better during off hours when there is less demand on the electrical grid. Now I have to concentrate on if I am imagining this or not lol......


----------



## chrisdrop

Any guesses for the make of these 6C5GTs?


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Any guesses for the make of these 6C5GTs?


Very hard to tell from the pictures- maybe the left one is a Sylvania. They are both not the same because the top metal cover is different. Possibly 40's production (the engraved bases were only up to 1937).
If nobody else bids you can satisfy your curiosity for less than GBP 5.- ....
(The handwritten label comes off with WD40 or rubbing alcohol and elbow grease)


----------



## mordy

*Martian TUBES:*
In case you wonder what kind of tubes are used on Mars, they look like this:



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Martian-TU...Lv5PairwiseWeb&_trksid=p2386202.c100677.m4598
OOps! I think gibosi was here already!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Feb 21, 2020)

Another Fivre 6C5G deal, looks like one has some pen writing on the label, but still an excellent price, I can't buy any more of these someone else has to do it! 

https://www.ebay.it/itm/352978262987

Edit: gone in minutes, enjoy.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 22, 2020)

Finally going to get in a long listening session this morning.




Hound Dog Taylor's debut album at the moment.
Some killer slide guitar.


I have been good about not buying any new tubes for awhile and saving for some new cans and some blutooth powered speakers for a new smart tv, but Those Fivre 6CG5 are very tempting for a future amp if found at those prices.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

That is the third pair that seller has listed, all for around $20!  One straight glass and two shouldered, so maybe they will list another here soon.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Finally going to get in a long listening session this morning.


Come on, Joe... That is just cruel to post those photos while I am still waiting for MY EL3N amp... 
That's like dangling tasty food in the face of a starving person!


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Come on, Joe... That is just cruel to post those photos while I am still waiting for MY EL3N amp...
> That's like dangling tasty food in the face of a starving person!




My bad   

Is yours being built right now ?
If so, you wait should not be too long I would not think.
You are going to have a lot of fun with the amp.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Is yours being built right now ?



Yup! Glenn is working on it...


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

gibosi said:


> Nice to see that folks are finally getting around to the 76. I recommend the RCA.


What is that adapter... could you please share from where to procure it or something similar....


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Zachik said:


> Yup! Glenn is working on it...


I hope it gets completed soon..... so that my # will come near...


----------



## heliosphann

Zachik said:


> Come on, Joe... That is just cruel to post those photos while I am still waiting for MY EL3N amp...
> That's like dangling tasty food in the face of a starving person!





whirlwind said:


> My bad
> 
> Is yours being built right now ?
> If so, you wait should not be too long I would not think.
> You are going to have a lot of fun with the amp.



Don't feel too bad for him guys. He just got a new big boy toy to play with...


----------



## gibosi

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> What is that adapter... could you please share from where to procure it or something similar....



I got mine from a Chinese eBay vendor but since that was about 5 years ago, I don't remember the vendor's name. On the other hand, I am quite sure that Deyan, who often frequents this forum, could build you one:  76 to 6SN7.


----------



## cdanguyen08

Cant wait for that PM!


----------



## leftside

cdanguyen08 said:


> Cant wait for that PM!


Waiting for that PM can make you become Undone!  Local (to me) Vancouver band:


----------



## chrisdrop

heliosphann said:


> Don't feel too bad for him guys. He just got a new big boy toy to play with...


What's the new big toy? Sounds exciting!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Feb 22, 2020)

My SET amp is nearly complete, just waiting for my output transformers to arrive  it will be a week, so I have returned to my GOTL to pass the time.  I have been so busy and haven't listened in so long I had to dust it off, good to be back.

Since they were on my mind, I popped in the Fivre 6C5G.  I have a few different pairs, this one has solid shields, only one I have seen like it.  Very nice sounding tubes, with a sextet of Tung-Sol 6BX7GT.


----------



## mordy (Feb 22, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Yup! Glenn is working on it...


That ain't Glenn:



It is Christopher Lloyd


----------



## heliosphann

chrisdrop said:


> What's the new big toy? Sounds exciting!



I'll let @Zachik divulge that if he wants to.


----------



## Zachik

heliosphann said:


> I'll let @Zachik divulge that if he wants to.


I will divulge it is an amp by another great amp designer, Alex Cavalli 
I wonder how amazing a brainchild amp by Alex & Glenn could be...


----------



## heliosphann

Zachik said:


> I will divulge it is an amp by another great amp designer, Alex Cavalli
> I wonder how amazing a brainchild amp by Alex & Glenn could be...



My knees got a little wobbly reading that.


----------



## Zachik

heliosphann said:


> My knees got a little wobbly reading that.


To be honest, I am pretty confident the amp Glenn is working on would be the endgame amp for me!
(I know, I know, famous last words...)


----------



## mordy

Here is the next tube rolling experiment, inspired by this:






This is a pair of RCA 6J7 with adapters for the C3g sockets.


 
The 6J7 is a pentode that is being used as a triode in the GOTL. The reason I am trying it is that the 6C5 is supposed to be triode section of the 6J7. I happened to have these EL32 to C3g adapters and the EL32 has the same pinout as the 6J7, and in addition, the 6J7 is not at all expensive.
First impression: These tube fine work in the C3g slots. 
Second impression: The bass is on the level of the Ken-Rad tubes, or maybe even stronger.
But so far, even though sounding good, they don't have the musicality of the 6C5/6J5 tubes. However, I have only used them an hour or two - need more time.
But is it fair to have four output tubes and only two input tubes? Why not not four drivers?
Added in the pair of 6C5 in the front 6SN7 slot. (Glenn - don't worry; the total is only 11.2A and I have two fans going, just in case)
The sound now is very detailed with a lot of microdetails and very good bass and slam, but a little harsh and too bright. Two is better than one, but four is not better than two.....
The bass is too strong - going back to two tubes.
Back to the 6C5 - the sweetness and magic is back. The sails are away in the sunset - will have to try again tomorrow - I have seven 6J7 tubes to try.


----------



## Monsterzero (Feb 23, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> The L63 does sound much better.


Im finally getting an evening of L63 listening. These tubes are immaculate! Just stunning looking and sounding. The Sylvanias and Ken Rads are very nice as well,but these are a step above.

For any Fleetwood Mac fans here,im listening to the Trod Nossel bootleg. It was recorded live in a studio in Connecticut back in 1975,and features the great,un-neutered version of Rhiannon. The SQ is excellent for a boot.


----------



## chrisdrop

Monsterzero said:


> Im finally getting an evening of L63 listening. These tubes are immaculate! Just stunning looking and sounding. The Sylvanias and Ken Rads are very nice as well,but these are a step above.
> 
> For any Fleetwood Mac fans here,im listening to the Trod Nossel bootleg. It was recorded live in a studio in Connecticut back in 1975,and features the great,un-neutered version of Rhiannon. The SQ is excellent for a boot.



#picture-or-it-didnt-happen


----------



## Monsterzero

PSA:

Sennheiser HD250 Linear ll is available at a reasonable price in classifieds. These dont come up for sale often and they sound stunning thru the Glenn. Sub bass for days!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...aging-legendary-vintage.925890/#post-15481142

No affiliation.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Im finally getting an evening of L63 listening. These tubes are immaculate! Just stunning looking and sounding. The Sylvanias and Ken Rads are very nice as well,but these are a step above.
> 
> For any Fleetwood Mac fans here,im listening to the Trod Nossel bootleg. It was recorded live in a studio in Connecticut back in 1975,and features the great,un-neutered version of Rhiannon. The SQ is excellent for a boot.




Of all of the 6J5s, they are the best, or at least tied for the best for me.  Excellent tubes, enjoy!  Getting ahead of myself, but might cook up a project for them in the future...maybe a 6J5/6C5 line preamp.


----------



## chrisdrop (Feb 23, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Of all of the 6J5s, they are the best, or at least tied for the best for me.  Excellent tubes, enjoy!  Getting ahead of myself, but might cook up a project for them in the future...maybe a 6J5/6C5 line preamp.


Your post got me to swap GEC 6J5Gs back in. I have had Sylvanias in for weeks now while varying other parts of the system. First, listen w/ Amber3 & these valves. They are clearer in the upper end and not as 'sweet' perhaps as the Sylvanias. Imaging is top-notch however. I actually wonder if I have even hit burn-in hours on these GECs...

Maybe I have asked this already (and forgotten the answer!), but is there any difference between tubes labelled L63 vs those labelled 65G? I can see GECs with both labels.

Listening to;


----------



## 2359glenn (Feb 23, 2020)

Another great sounding single triode is the 6C4.  It is 1/2 a 12AU7 and sounds great.
I have a pair labeled Harman Kardon.  You will need a dual 6SN7 to 6C4 adapter or two 6J5 to 6C4 adapters they are a 7 pin miniature tube.
These are worth the trouble to try them.
I think @Velozity is using them in his OTL now.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I think you mean 6J5G @chrisdrop ?  The GEC 6J5G and L63 are one and the same, it is the UK equivalent.  Other designations are CV1067, 10E/11448, 10E/348, VR67.  Those labeled 6J5G may have been exported to the USA (?).

Something I think is pretty interesting, I may have mentioned this before: in Morgan Jones' book _Valve Amplifiers_, he discusses various types of preamp tubes and performs measurements of their relative harmonic distortions.  While the 6J5 family is not far behind, the best results he obtains are from carbonized 6SN7/CV1988, namely the Brimar yields the lowest distortion.  As a result of those measurements, the carbonized Brimar CV1988 tubes are HIGHLY sought after.  I used to own a very nice pair.

Well, I can tell you the measurements don't reflect the perceived performance.  As many of you have witnessed, the 6J5 have a sizeable advantage is soundstage and airiness over the 6SN7s, and the same holds true versus the carbonized Brimar CV1988.  I was never impressed by them, so I resold them for their market price, over $400 a pair (!!!).

Just goes to show that distortion is not everything, there is something missing from the measurements, I am so curious what it is.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> you mean 6J5G


Yep
Typo


----------



## Monsterzero

In case yall missed it, a huge batch of GEC/Osram L63s just hit eBay today from the same seller I bought my pair from. Good prices.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> PSA:
> 
> Sennheiser HD250 Linear ll is available at a reasonable price in classifieds. These dont come up for sale often and they sound stunning thru the Glenn. Sub bass for days!
> 
> ...


Thanks Monster. I've wanted to try these headphones for a while, but the ones I've seen haven't been in very good condition. Those listed above are a bit pricier than others currently on the market, but appear well looked after. Just made the purchase.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Thanks Monster. I've wanted to try these headphones for a while, but the ones I've seen haven't been in very good condition. Those listed above are a bit pricier than others currently on the market, but appear well looked after. Just made the purchase.


Nice dude! Those headphones are absurdly good. Makes one wonder where Sennheiser went wrong in the following years. Curious to hear your thoughts on them. My pair is the Linear l,300 ohms.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> Thanks Monster. I've wanted to try these headphones for a while, but the ones I've seen haven't been in very good condition. Those listed above are a bit pricier than others currently on the market, but appear well looked after. Just made the purchase.



Congrats, I used to have a pair of Linear I too, they are nice headphones.  You can still buy the foam inserts for the ear pads if you need them from Sennheiser's OEM part supplier.  Also, ZMF Universe pads work well if you ever need to replace them or just want to try something different.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Another great sounding single triode is the 6C4.  It is 1/2 a 12AU7 and sounds great.
> I have a pair labeled Harman Kardon.  You will need a dual 6SN7 to 6C4 adapter or two 6J5 to 6C4 adapters they are a 7 pin miniature tube.
> These are worth the trouble to try them.
> I think @Velozity is using them in his OTL now.



I have long said my Harman Kardon labeled 12AU7 was indeed a superb tube.


----------



## 2359glenn (Feb 23, 2020)

JazzVinyl said:


> I have long said my Harman Kardon labeled 12AU7 was indeed a superb tube.



Harman Kardon always used very good sounding tubes in there stereos.  I have two Harman Kardon 12AU7s too they are in a old preamp
I built 25 years ago.  Don't use it anymore I should go out in the shed and pull them out.
If I only known I could have gotten lots of these tubes but I was into SS back then.
There were piles of bulk pack 12AU7,12AX7,12AT7,6C4 ,KT88 and lots of tuner tubes. Could have paid pennies for these we could buy parts at cost.


----------



## Celty

2359glenn said:


> Harman Kardon always used very good sounding tubes in there stereos.  I have two Harman Kardon 12AU7s too they are in a old preamp
> I built 25 years ago.  Don't use it anymore I should go out in the shed and pull them out.
> If I only known I could have gotten lots of these tubes but I was into SS back then.
> There were piles of bulk pack 12AU7,12AX7,12AT7,6C4 ,KT88 and lots of tuner tubes. Could have paid pennies for these we could buy parts at cost.


Ah that reminds me, had been meaning to ask how the KT88's do in a Glenn OTL?


----------



## 2359glenn

Celty said:


> Ah that reminds me, had been meaning to ask how the KT88's do in a Glenn OTL?



They won't work in the OTL you would have to get the SET


----------



## maxpudding

Monsterzero said:


> In case yall missed it, a huge batch of GEC/Osram L63s just hit eBay today from the same seller I bought my pair from. Good prices.




Thanks MZ, I bought a pair


----------



## Zachik

maxpudding said:


> Thanks MZ, I bought a pair


@Monsterzero - you got to add to your signature a warning, cigarette box style, telling people that you're bad for the public's wallet or retirement funds!


----------



## maxpudding

Zachik said:


> @Monsterzero - you got to add to your signature a warning, cigarette box style, telling people that you're bad for the public's wallet or retirement funds!



Indeed!


----------



## musicman59

Monsterzero said:


> For any Fleetwood Mac fans here,im listening to the Trod Nossel bootleg. It was recorded live in a studio in Connecticut back in 1975,and features the great,un-neutered version of Rhiannon. The SQ is excellent for a boot.




Thanks for sharing this. I am a Fleetwood Mac (with Buckingham in the band) super fan. I listened to Rhiannon and Ladslide in the summer of 1975 for the first time (I was 16) and fell in love with them.


----------



## mordy

maxpudding said:


> Thanks MZ, I bought a pair


Link?


----------



## chrisdrop

chrisdrop said:


> Your post got me to swap GEC 6J5Gs back in. I have had Sylvanias in for weeks now while varying other parts of the system. First, listen w/ Amber3 & these valves. They are clearer in the upper end and not as 'sweet' perhaps as the Sylvanias. Imaging is top-notch however. I actually wonder if I have even hit burn-in hours on these GECs...
> 
> Maybe I have asked this already (and forgotten the answer!), but is there any difference between tubes labelled L63 vs those labelled 65G? I can see GECs with both labels.
> 
> Listening to;



FWIW - these GEC tubes sound great  Glad to have finally rolled 'em back in. If I doubted how much I liked these before justifying the price, I don't after the past day of listening. Tx for the inspiration to return MZ.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Link?


I was in error yesterday. The current crop of GEC L63s are from a different seller than from whom I bought mine from. This is what happens when I post before I finish my coffee. :/

I bought mine from Lamberto. The current crop are a bit more expensive than what I got mine for.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/114126307295?ul_noapp=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/114126248257?ul_noapp=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/114126316134?ul_noapp=true


----------



## mordy

I spilled my coffee over those prices.....$267.00 for a pair of ST tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Feb 24, 2020)

I have managed to get pairs of these tubes for around $120 + shipping, I have seldom if ever seen them go for less than that.  They are a bit pricey, but they might be the best!

If you think about the price of a GEC B65 though, they are a bargain, and probably sound better.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have managed to get pairs of these tubes for around $120 + shipping


Fingers crossed more would show up at similar prices... I could use a couple pairs for my upcoming amp...


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Feb 24, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Fingers crossed more would show up at similar prices... I could use a couple pairs for my upcoming amp...



Will your amp have 6J5 and EL3N sockets Zachik?  Or do you plan to use adapters?

BTW, I meant to say this on the thread at some point but forgot until now: there is an octal version of the EL3N, the EL33.  Exact same tube, just with an octal base.  Might be of some interest to those with amps in the works.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Will your amp have 6J5 and EL3N sockets Zachik?


Yes!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Yes!



That should give some nice flexibility, sounds like a killer amp


----------



## maxpudding

Oh man


Monsterzero said:


> I was in error yesterday. The current crop of GEC L63s are from a different seller than from whom I bought mine from. This is what happens when I post before I finish my coffee. :/
> 
> I bought mine from Lamberto. The current crop are a bit more expensive than what I got mine for.
> 
> ...



Yup, bought from the same seller, a bit expensive for a pair of tubes that has been priced $120-$150. Guess, I couldn’t wait no more lol.

Bought a pair of £5 6C5 nos tubes from langrex as well.


----------



## Velozity

2359glenn said:


> Another great sounding single triode is the 6C4.  It is 1/2 a 12AU7 and sounds great.
> I have a pair labeled Harman Kardon.  You will need a dual 6SN7 to 6C4 adapter or two 6J5 to 6C4 adapters they are a 7 pin miniature tube.
> These are worth the trouble to try them.
> I think @Velozity is using them in his OTL now.




Yep, still going strong with the 6C4.  I haven't touched my 6SN7s in weeks except for a few times to validate that I really do enjoy the 6C4 better.  To me it's an ideal solution even over the 6J5 due to size.  I asked @Deyan to make me another adapter so I can keep two sets locked and ready to roll.  This way I won't even have to wait for tubes to cool for quick swaps.  I highly recommend them.


----------



## Zachik

Velozity said:


> Yep, still going strong with the 6C4.  I haven't touched my 6SN7s in weeks except for a few times to validate that I really do enjoy the 6C4 better.  To me it's an ideal solution even over the 6J5 due to size.  I asked @Deyan to make me another adapter so I can keep two sets locked and ready to roll.  This way I won't even have to wait for tubes to cool for quick swaps.  I highly recommend them.


Would the adapter be 2 x 6C4 to 6SN7, same idea as 2 x 6J5 to 6SN7?


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Would the adapter be 2 x 6C4 to 6SN7, same idea as 2 x 6J5 to 6SN7?


I think that this is the link to Deyan's adapter, although he may be out of stock ATM, but you could always ask him to make one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6...522380?hash=item41e49f588c:g:Ba0AAOSwW8RbIqnr


----------



## Velozity

Zachik said:


> Would the adapter be 2 x 6C4 to 6SN7, same idea as 2 x 6J5 to 6SN7?




Affirmative, one per channel.  They're small and easy to store or display.


----------



## maxpudding

Velozity said:


> Affirmative, one per channel.  They're small and easy to store or display.



Hi Velozity

Does that mean if I had the 6j5 sockets, I would need two 6C4 to 6J5 adapters, right?


----------



## maxpudding

Velozity said:


> Yep, still going strong with the 6C4.  I haven't touched my 6SN7s in weeks except for a few times to validate that I really do enjoy the 6C4 better.  To me it's an ideal solution even over the 6J5 due to size.  I asked @Deyan to make me another adapter so I can keep two sets locked and ready to roll.  This way I won't even have to wait for tubes to cool for quick swaps.  I highly recommend them.



would that be the NU 6C4?


----------



## Zachik

@Velozity and @2359glenn - which are good 6C4 tubes, assuming I dive into 1 more rabbit hole?  
Glenn - I saw you mention Harman branded tubes, but who made them?


----------



## leftside

maxpudding said:


> Hi Velozity
> 
> Does that mean if I had the 6j5 sockets, I would need two 6C4 to 6J5 adapters, right?


Yes. I also have two 6C4 to 6J5 on order from Deyan.


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> @Velozity and @2359glenn - which are good 6C4 tubes, assuming I dive into 1 more rabbit hole?
> Glenn - I saw you mention Harman branded tubes, but who made them?



They were made in Germany? maybe Siemens.


----------



## 2359glenn

maxpudding said:


> Hi Velozity
> 
> Does that mean if I had the 6j5 sockets, I would need two 6C4 to 6J5 adapters, right?



Yes they would be a single 6J5 to 6C4 adapters that is what I have.  I have no 6SN7 just two 6J5/L63 sockets.


----------



## maxpudding

Thanks for all the replies guys


----------



## whirlwind

I have not bought any tubes in a good long while, but I did just purchase these for my future SET amp.


----------



## Velozity (Feb 25, 2020)

Zachik said:


> @Velozity and @2359glenn - which are good 6C4 tubes, assuming I dive into 1 more rabbit hole?
> Glenn - I saw you mention Harman branded tubes, but who made them?




@Zachik , reference my post from Jan. 28 below.  My impressions today are still the same, except I'm even more impressed with the GE JG-6100 triple mica than I was initially.  It's a fantastic tube with ZERO noise.  I also have since added GEC CV133 to my collection and they are the same construction as my other MOV CV133 and sound the same.  The 6100 and CV133 are cream-of-the-crop tubes.  Buy any you can find in good condition.  I'm planing to use them in a future multi-channel preamp as well.



Velozity said:


> 6C4 sound impressions...
> 
> 
> *National Union JNU-6C4, circa 1945-*
> ...


----------



## JazzVinyl

A pair of early 1950's metal Ken Rad 6J7's and Quad of 6080's...sounding mighty fine in the GOTL.

Thanks @mordy for the heads up on 6J7 (uses the EL32 adapters in the C3g sockets).


----------



## mordy

The reason I decided to try the metal 6J7 pentode is that apparently the 6C5 is the same tube wired as a triode. Also discovered that I already had the adapters since it uses the same pinout as the EL32 - using them in the C3g sockets. And the third reason is that they are very inexpensive.
After a somewhat lengthy burn-in (30 hours) they sound really good. Great and well defined bass, great slam and attack and detail and natural sounding. 
Another unsung hero....
There are Russian and apparently British made variants but I have not tried them. And then there are tubular glass and ST glass variants as well....As long as something glows, the price goes up, but I am very happy with the all black (and sometimes rusty) all metal tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I concur @mordy that these 6J7's are unsung hero's!!  Mine sound really nice with just a few hours.  Looking forward to further improvement!

Thank you again, sir!!!


----------



## mordy

Glad you like them!


----------



## maxpudding

Glad to hear that we all still can enjoy these inexpensive, good sounding tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> I concur @mordy that these 6J7's are unsung hero's!!  Mine sound really nice with just a few hours.  Looking forward to further improvement!
> 
> Thank you again, sir!!!



There are others the 6SJ7 is the same tube as the 6J7 but has no top cap.  Will need a different adapter.  And there are miniature tubes that are the same too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> There are others the 6SJ7 is the same tube as the 6J7 but has no top cap.  Will need a different adapter.  And there are miniature tubes that are the same too.



Good to know!

Enjoying McCoy Tyner, via a quad of 6080's and the Ken Rad 6J7's....hard to find any faults!!  Amazing!  Love live the C3g sockets in the GOTL


----------



## DecentLevi (Feb 28, 2020)

My 'modest 1-2 adapters'   arrived today thanks to the custom work of @Deyan  for my upcoming Glenn SET amp I call El Darwin. Now Glenn let's get this party started! (or should I say 'science experiment' Haha)...


----------



## Zachik

DecentLevi said:


> My 'modest 1-2 adapters'   arrived today thanks to the custom work of @Deyan  for my upcoming Glenn SET amp I call El Darwin. Now Glenn let's get this party started! (or should I say 'science experiment' Haha)...


...OK - you win! Cannot begin to compete with THAT collection of adapters...


----------



## DecentLevi

And those are just the adapters I custom ordered to work with my upcoming Glenn amp. I have about this many more adapters already for my Euforia amp. I've got all the tubes to boot also pending 1 more KT66


----------



## JazzVinyl

I just popped in a metal Ken Rad 6N7 in the sn7 socket and kept the pair of Ken Rad 6J7's in the 'adapted to C3g" sockets....
quad 6080 and Senn 580's..

Loving this!


----------



## chrisdrop

DecentLevi said:


> My 'modest 1-2 adapters'   arrived today thanks to the custom work of @Deyan  for my upcoming Glenn SET amp I call El Darwin. Now Glenn let's get this party started! (or should I say 'science experiment' Haha)...


Glad to see the support for @Deyan. He is part of the extended Glenn amp ecosystem. I have a package from him coming next week. My package has nowhere near that prodigious adapter haul however - wow! 

Long may the rolling continue.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> My 'modest 1-2 adapters'   arrived today thanks to the custom work of @Deyan  for my upcoming Glenn SET amp I call El Darwin. Now Glenn let's get this party started! (or should I say 'science experiment' Haha)...



WOW  what a collection of tubes to try.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

DecentLevi said:


> My 'modest 1-2 adapters'   arrived today thanks to the custom work of @Deyan  for my upcoming Glenn SET amp I call El Darwin. Now Glenn let's get this party started! (or should I say 'science experiment' Haha)...



What are the stock tubes for your amp @DecentLevi ?  6SN7 input and 4x KT66 output?


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 29, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> My 'modest 1-2 adapters'   arrived today thanks to the custom work of @Deyan  for my upcoming Glenn SET amp I call El Darwin. Now Glenn let's get this party started! (or should I say 'science experiment' Haha)...




Oh man...you are going to drive your self nuts!   

GOTL & Atticus morning here.
A "Muddy" morning.

*5 "Pretty Maids All In A Row"



Simple..... black backround..... very impactful 

*


----------



## DecentLevi (Feb 29, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> What are the stock tubes for your amp @DecentLevi ?  6SN7 input and 4x KT66 output?


The 4x power tubes are octal sockets for 6L6 series and EL34. So I can use 6L(V/K/F)6, KT66, KT77, EL34 and AKAIK KT88 and KT150 if I want. With adapters I can also use EL3N, EL12, EL12 Spez, EL38, EL39. The driver is 1x 6SN7 which can also use many types with adapters, namely 6J5 and L63. He's also making a cathode resistor bias switch for more optimal performance with some of these and has the parts already... and @2359glenn I'm looking forward to hearing your progress building it. 'Love takes time' I guess


----------



## Zachik

DecentLevi said:


> and @2359glenn I'm looking forward to hearing your progress building it.


Let the master finish mine, first... don't cut in line dude!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I just popped in a metal Ken Rad 6N7 in the sn7 socket and kept the pair of Ken Rad 6J7's in the 'adapted to C3g" sockets....
> quad 6080 and Senn 580's..
> 
> Loving this!


Hi JV,
Since I have the K-R 6N7 at arm's length I reached out and popped it in. It definitely adds to the mix in a very positive way - trying to figure out what the difference is. (I am using a pair of RCA 6J7 + 4x6080 Sylvania/Mullard).
OK - here goes - (I know it sounds exaggerated but it is not):
Adding this tube breathes more life and immediacy into the presentation, better bass definition and a sense of a holographic soundstage with very clear instrument separation. Amazing.....


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Feb 29, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> The 4x power tubes are octal sockets for 6L6 series and EL34. So I can use 6L(V/K/F)6, KT66, KT77, EL34 and AKAIK KT88 and KT150 if I want. With adapters I can also use EL3N, EL12, EL12 Spez, EL38, EL39. The driver is 1x 6SN7 which can also use many types with adapters, namely 6J5 and L63. He's also making a cathode resistor bias switch for more optimal performance with some of these and has the parts already... and @2359glenn I'm looking forward to hearing your progress building it. 'Love takes time' I guess



Very cool!  Will it have speaker outputs too?  Two EL34 per channel is good for something like 5-6W if biased at around 250V and 70mA on the plates into an 8ohm load.  If you do plan to use speakers, I would just talk to Glenn about which tubes the power supply is going to be optimized for, there will have to be compromises made to use all of those different power tubes.

For example, the power supply might be set up to run EL34 biased at 250V and 70mA on the plates.  If you swap in a 6L6, which normally takes around 250V and 40mA, they will be run over their rated voltage; the voltage put out by the power supply on the tube plates will go up due to the reduced current draw (Ohm's law), and the 6L6 can only take 250V on the plates max, running them over voltage could damage the tubes.  To avoid this you could use a voltage-regulated power supply, which adds complexity, or run the higher power tubes (like EL34) at a lower plate current, say 40mA like the 6L6.  The compromise there is lower power output from the EL34.  If you are only using headphones, it is not a big deal, but for speakers, the decreased power output might be a big loss.

Just something to think about.  I ran into this issue when I was designing my amp to run multiple types of power tubes.  When confronted with this issue, I ultimately decided making the compromises wasn't worth it and optimized the amp for a single power tube.  But again, I was designing for speakers, for headphones it isn't as much of an issue since they are very easy to drive load, especially with two power tubes per channel!


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> Since I have the K-R 6N7 at arm's length I reached out and popped it in. It definitely adds to the mix in a very positive way - trying to figure out what the difference is. (I am using a pair of RCA 6J7 + 4x6080 Sylvania/Mullard).
> OK - here goes - (I know it sounds exaggerated but it is not):
> Adding this tube breathes more life and immediacy into the presentation, better bass definition and a sense of a holographic soundstage with very clear instrument separation. Amazing.....



What happens if you add a 6SN7 instead of the 6N7?


----------



## GDuss

GDuss said:


> What happens if you add a 6SN7 instead of the 6N7?



In case it's not obvious, I'm hoping this is a way to rescue all the SN7 tubes I have that aren't being used since I switched to dual J5/C5 tubes.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> What happens if you add a 6SN7 instead of the 6N7?


To be determined...meanwhile I am mesmerized by this sound and not ready to switch ATM.
Any specific suggestions for 6SN7 tubes?


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> To be determined...meanwhile I am mesmerized by this sound and not ready to switch ATM.
> Any specific suggestions for 6SN7 tubes?



I don't have a specific suggestion for 6SN7, maybe something many people have?  A Ken Rad (do you still have that tube from chrisdrop?), or maybe a TS BGRP?  It's probably a matter of matching the 6J7 tubes with the right 6SN7.  Maybe if you're using a warmer 6J7 (e.g. RCA) it needs a crisp SN7?


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Very cool!  Will it have speaker outputs too?  Two EL34 per channel is good for something like 5-6W if biased at around 250V and 70mA on the plates into an 8ohm load.  If you do plan to use speakers, I would just talk to Glenn about which tubes the power supply is going to be optimized for, there will have to be compromises made to use all of those different power tubes.
> 
> For example, the power supply might be set up to run EL34 biased at 250V and 70mA on the plates.  If you swap in a 6L6, which normally takes around 250V and 40mA, they will be run over their rated voltage; the voltage put out by the power supply on the tube plates will go up due to the reduced current draw (Ohm's law), and the 6L6 can only take 250V on the plates max, running them over voltage could damage the tubes.  To avoid this you could use a voltage-regulated power supply, which adds complexity, or run the higher power tubes (like EL34) at a lower plate current, say 40mA like the 6L6.  The compromise there is lower power output from the EL34.  If you are only using headphones, it is not a big deal, but for speakers, the decreased power output might be a big loss.
> 
> Just something to think about.  I ran into this issue when I was designing my amp to run multiple types of power tubes.  When confronted with this issue, I ultimately decided making the compromises wasn't worth it and optimized the amp for a single power tube.  But again, I was designing for speakers, for headphones it isn't as much of an issue since they are very easy to drive load, especially with two power tubes per channel!



This is some what true if the amp has a wimpy power supply with allot of resistance in it.  Unless you want B+ sag like in a guitar amp to make it distort.
If your amp has allot of resistance in the power supply.  What is going to happen when you turn up the volume and the tubes start drawing more current.
With a stiff power supply the B+ voltage won't change that much going from 40ma to 70ma.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 1, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> This is some what true if the amp has a wimpy power supply with allot of resistance in it.  Unless you want B+ sag like in a guitar amp to make it distort.
> If your amp has allot of resistance in the power supply.  What is going to happen when you turn up the volume and the tubes start drawing more current.
> With a stiff power supply the B+ voltage won't change that much going from 40ma to 70ma.



I forgot your CLCLC supply with the 6H chokes only has 300ohm DCR Glenn, so maybe 265V or so on the 6L6 plates at 40mA if set up for EL34.  Don't mind me, just quietly losing my mind over here waiting for these transformers.


----------



## 2359glenn (Mar 1, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I forgot your CLCLC supply with the 6H chokes only has 130ohm DCR Glenn, so maybe 260V or so on the 6L6 plates at 40mA if set up for EL34.  Don't mind me, just quietly losing my mind over here waiting for these transformers.



In the SET amps I split the power so each channel just has one choke.  Just enough to get rid of hum and keeps the resistance in the power supply down.
OTL I use two chokes as they are more prone to hum. A amp with output transformers the ripple in the power supply is reduced by the ratio of the transformer.
The power transformer should put out close to the B+ as possible with the least resistance in the B+ power as possible.
At Harman Kardon they even use a power transformer of 1/2 the voltage and twice the current went to a voltage doubler for the B+.
This kept the internal resistance of the transformer down to reduce any sag.
I know someone told you to put resistors in series with the chokes for some reason?  In 50 years of experience I have never seen this done.
Not in a amp or tube TVs that used chokes in there power supply.
Didn't say anything because I didn't want to get into a flame with someone.
Back to the KISS principal or less is more.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> In the SET amps I split the power so each channel just has one choke.  Just enough to get rid of hum and keeps the resistance in the power supply down.
> OTL I use two chokes as they are more prone to hum. A amp with output transformers the ripple in the power supply is reduced by the ratio of the transformer.
> The power transformer should put out close to the B+ as possible with the least resistance in the B+ power as possible.
> At Harman Kardon they even use a power transformer of 1/2 the voltage and twice the current went to a voltage doubler for the B+.
> ...



Well no concern here about a flame war, but no one told me to put the resistors there, it was my decision, although I did ask for opinions about the consequences.  I originally read of adding DC resistance to a class A power supply to damp low frequency LC filter resonances, so I don't think it is unheard of.  

The driver tubes in the amp are being biased at around 200V with the CCS load, so they need a 400V or so B+ to reach their full peak-to-peak voltage swing.  The output tubes take 250V on the plates with 45V in the cathode, so I needed to drop nearly 100V in the power supply for the output tubes.  That's where the resistors came in.

I wouldn't expect sag to be a problem in class A since the DC current draw will be nearly constant, maybe an issue if the caps are depleted and cannot supply the current during large AC transients, but 130uF per channel should be fine for the output tubes based on all the information I gathered.  I guess time will tell if it was a bad decision, maybe a rookie mistake.

Anyway, I won't comment on other peoples' amps anymore, sorry.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well no concern here about a flame war, but no one told me to put the resistors there, it was my decision, although I did ask for opinions about the consequences.  I originally read of adding DC resistance to a class A power supply to damp low frequency LC filter resonances, so I don't think it is unheard of.
> 
> The driver tubes in the amp are being biased at around 200V with the CCS load, so they need a 400V or so B+ to reach their full peak-to-peak voltage swing.  The output tubes take 250V on the plates with 45V in the cathode, so I needed to drop nearly 100V in the power supply for the output tubes.  That's where the resistors came in.
> 
> ...



It may have been better to use a 250 volt transformer and come off one side with a capacitor and a 1/2 wave voltage doubler. then a R-C filter
this would give 500 volts to the CCS.  And would still give a low impedance high current 250 volts to the output tubes.
A little more complicated but not much.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> It may have been better to use a 250 volt transformer and come off one side with a capacitor and a 1/2 wave voltage doubler. then a R-C filter
> this would give 500 volts to the CCS.  And would still give a low impedance high current 250 volts to the output tubes.
> A little more complicated but not much.



I hadn't thought of using a voltage doubler, I think it is fine but if the supply poses some problem I will keep it in mind.

One other possible advantage of adding series resistance: the final LC filter acts as an AC voltage divider, the higher impedance will reject low frequency signal from leaking into the power supply.  Not something I have found much written information on, only have had conversations, but I am told this will improve bass definition of the output stage.

My experience with this project has shown me that power supply design is by far the most complicated part and there is a big resource hole for guys like me trying to pick it up.  Merlin Blencowe wrote a book on power supply design six or so years ago, now out of print.  Used copies now sell for hundreds, crazy.  Maybe you should write a book Glenn, I would buy it.


----------



## mordy (Mar 1, 2020)

GDuss said:


> I don't have a specific suggestion for 6SN7, maybe something many people have?  A Ken Rad (do you still have that tube from chrisdrop?), or maybe a TS BGRP?  It's probably a matter of matching the 6J7 tubes with the right 6SN7.  Maybe if you're using a warmer 6J7 (e.g. RCA) it needs a crisp SN7?


Hi GDuss,
Rolled a couple of tubes to see if I could improve on the K-R 6N7:
First a "Frankie" 7N7 loctal tube. Most 7N7 tubes were made by Sylvania regardless of branding with the exception of National Union. (Sylvania subsequently purchased NU). The one I have is a GE from 1952 but it says Lansdale on the tube. This leads me to think that it is a NU since their factory was in Lansdale, PA.
This tube is supposed to be the best sounding 7N7. It has an exquisite top end but not such a strong bass. Was hoping that the RCA 6J7 would augment the sound nicely, but it did not happen. The sound was slowed down and less dynamic and the bass was not anywhere near the K-R.
Next a 1945 Sylvania 6SN7W. This tube acquitted itself very well - light, airy, great slam, attack and dynamics and beautiful tone. The K-R has stronger bass, but this is a contender.
Lastly, for today, a septuagenarian Tung Sol 6SN7GT BGRP from 1948. Quick, slam, but too bright in this setting.
Conclusion: Don't get rid of your 6SN7 tubes yet - with the right pairing they can sound very good with the 6J7.
PS: Did not try the K-R 6SN7 yet. I am a little afraid of it after the shock treatments I gave it and there is a rattle in the tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I hadn't thought of using a voltage doubler, I think it is fine but if the supply poses some problem I will keep it in mind.
> 
> One other possible advantage of adding series resistance: the final LC filter acts as an AC voltage divider, the higher impedance will reject low frequency signal from leaking into the power supply.  Not something I have found much written information on, only have had conversations, but I am told this will improve bass definition of the output stage.
> 
> My experience with this project has shown me that power supply design is by far the most complicated part and there is a big resource hole for guys like me trying to pick it up.  Merlin Blencowe wrote a book on power supply design six or so years ago, now out of print.  Used copies now sell for hundreds, crazy.  Maybe you should write a book Glenn, I would buy it.



Yes the power supply is the most difficult part of the amp.  The Amplifier itself is easy power supply another story.
Especially if using DHTs then you need pure DC on the filaments.
I am curious about the tubes you are using and if they have no hum running on AC?
If no hum I might try using them in place of 2A3 or 6A3.  2A3/6A3 sound so good but are a PITA to deal with that makes a amp
using them very expensive.


----------



## mordy (Mar 1, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I hadn't thought of using a voltage doubler, I think it is fine but if the supply poses some problem I will keep it in mind.
> 
> One other possible advantage of adding series resistance: the final LC filter acts as an AC voltage divider, the higher impedance will reject low frequency signal from leaking into the power supply.  Not something I have found much written information on, only have had conversations, but I am told this will improve bass definition of the output stage.
> 
> My experience with this project has shown me that power supply design is by far the most complicated part and there is a big resource hole for guys like me trying to pick it up.  Merlin Blencowe wrote a book on power supply design six or so years ago, now out of print.  Used copies now sell for hundreds, crazy.  Maybe you should write a book Glenn, I would buy it.


Hi LG,
Is this for you - a PDF download of Blencowe's book:
https://akmedia.press/med-80594/0956154514
Appears to be free.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Yes the power supply is the most difficult part of the amp.  The Amplifier itself is easy power supply another story.
> Especially if using DHTs then you need pure DC on the filaments.
> I am curious about the tubes you are using and if they have no hum running on AC?
> If no hum I might try using them in place of 2A3 or 6A3.  2A3/6A3 sound so good but are a PITA to deal with that makes a amp
> using them very expensive.



I have read comparisons saying going from 6B4G to 6A5G the difference in hum is huge, in that with the 6A5G there is no hum at all, although that was with speakers.  I'll have to see how it is with headphones, should be good but if there is a little bit of hum, I'm not worried about it, it is a speaker amp first and foremost.  It has cathode sleeves so should be hum-free in theory and they are just as linear as the DHTs.  I'm surprised these aren't more commonly used.  They aren't as available as you might think though, I have four pairs, two of those pairs I had to make by buying identical singles, but because they were only made by Sylvania, it is pretty easy to make pairs.

I won this tube today, this is the earliest version of the REN904, very rare to find one in this condition, great price too.  The seller turned down my offer before the auction started for almost double what I ended up winning it for.  I found a second one in perfect condition from an obscure tube seller, been keeping an eye on it, now I can buy it since I'll have a nice pair.






mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> Is this for you - a PDF download of Blencowe's book:
> https://akmedia.press/med-80594/0956154514
> Appears to be free.



Thanks, mordy, I'll check it out but I think that might be one of those hoax sites that asks for your contact info then steals your identity.  I appreciate it though, I would love to get my hands on a copy of that book.  Blencowe says he might put out a second edition, but no timeline or promises on that.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have read comparisons saying going from 6B4G to 6A5G the difference in hum is huge, in that with the 6A5G there is no hum at all, although that was with speakers.  I'll have to see how it is with headphones, should be good but if there is a little bit of hum, I'm not worried about it, it is a speaker amp first and foremost.  It has cathode sleeves so should be hum-free in theory and they are just as linear as the DHTs.  I'm surprised these aren't more commonly used.  They aren't as available as you might think though, I have four pairs, two of those pairs I had to make by buying identical singles, but because they were only made by Sylvania, it is pretty easy to make pairs.
> 
> I won this tube today, this is the earliest version of the REN904, very rare to find one in this condition, great price too.  The seller turned down my offer before the auction started for almost double what I ended up winning it for.  I found a second one in perfect condition from an obscure tube seller, been keeping an eye on it, now I can buy it since I'll have a nice pair.
> 
> ...



Nice tube the REN904 sound great maybe better then the E424 but one of mine started making pops.
So I will find another single. I bought two singles anyway and singles are cheaper anyway.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Nice tube the REN904 sound great maybe better then the E424 but one of mine started making pops.
> So I will find another single. I bought two singles anyway and singles are cheaper anyway.



Getting another single for a good price should be easy, I won a silver one today from the same seller for €33.  People don't seem to know what to charge, some are asking crazy prices like $300 for one tube, but usually they go for $50 or less.  Sure are old, but great tubes.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Maybe you should write a book Glenn, I would buy it.


I would buy *anything* Glenn sells...


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Hi GDuss,
> Rolled a couple of tubes to see if I could improve on the K-R 6N7:
> First a "Frankie" 7N7 loctal tube. Most 7N7 tubes were made by Sylvania regardless of branding with the exception of National Union. (Sylvania subsequently purchased NU). The one I have is a GE from 1952 but it says Lansdale on the tube. This leads me to think that it is a NU since their factory was in Lansdale, PA.
> This tube is supposed to be the best sounding 7N7. It has an exquisite top end but not such a strong bass. Was hoping that the RCA 6J7 would augment the sound nicely, but it did not happen. The sound was slowed down and less dynamic and the bass was not anywhere near the K-R.
> ...



Great work Mordy.  Thanks for investigating this.  I'll jump into these experiments once some 6J7's get here.  I have a few Sylvania SN7's and will try a KR so you don't have to bring the one from @chrisdrop out of the morgue.   

I suppose your results are specific to the 6J7's you are using, which I think are RCA.  Mileage likely varies with different 6J7 manufacturers and the combinations with the SN7's (power tubes too), so there is still hope for some of the other brands.  If all else fails, I have a KR 6N7 that @JazzVinyl suggested I try last year (thanks JV).  

Cheers to more fun with cheap tubes  .


----------



## Monsterzero

I was thinking today that the Glenn thread has been pretty quiet lately,only to find three full pages of posts...Hmm. New system is not sending me emails. 



mordy said:


> and the bass was not anywhere near the K-R.


I have yet to come across a tube that has bass that can compete with the Ken Rads.


Zachik said:


> I would buy *anything* Glenn sells...



Glenn has gardening equipment for sale. I called but he wasnt very helpful.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 1, 2020)

GDuss said:


> What happens if you add a 6SN7 instead of the 6N7?



Not tried any 6SN7's with the 6J7's yet.  About three days into the KR 6N7 with 6J7 (also KR's) and am so very pleased with this that I have not wanted to change.

Would be neat to try 6SN7's:
Raytheon
RCA
Sylvania (Non W's)
KR
Tung-Sol mouse ears

Also wanting to try;
1633 and the 13D1

Then there are 6C5's and (for me) several brands of 12J5's) to try


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> Great work Mordy.  Thanks for investigating this.  I'll jump into these experiments once some 6J7's get here.  I have a few Sylvania SN7's and will try a KR so you don't have to bring the one from @chrisdrop out of the morgue.
> 
> I suppose your results are specific to the 6J7's you are using, which I think are RCA.  Mileage likely varies with different 6J7 manufacturers and the combinations with the SN7's (power tubes too), so there is still hope for some of the other brands.  If all else fails, I have a KR 6N7 that @JazzVinyl suggested I try last year (thanks JV).
> 
> Cheers to more fun with cheap tubes  .


JV has a pair of K-R 6J7 and the K-R 6N7 and it seems that his set-up evokes very similar results to what I hear. 
This what JV says: so very pleased with this that I have not wanted to change. 
And I am echoing that - after trying a couple of different front drivers I am back to the metal K-R 6N7 and I really don't want to change....
Of course, I have several 6N7/G/GT/ECC31 tubes to try: NU, RCA, GE, Visseaux and Mullard among others....


----------



## chrisdrop

Monsterzero said:


> I was thinking today that the Glenn thread has been pretty quiet lately,only to find three full pages of posts...Hmm. New system is not sending me emails.
> 
> 
> I have yet to come across a tube that has bass that can compete with the Ken Rads.
> ...



Wow Jerky Boys - classic! I remember having a cassette tape with all their prank calls and laughing to tears with my friends. Tx for that!


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> About three days into the KR 6N7 with 6J7 (also KR's) and am so very pleased with this that I have not wanted to change.





mordy said:


> And I am echoing that - after trying a couple of different front drivers I am back to the metal K-R 6N7 and I really don't want to change....



Ok, well I know what I'm going straight for as soon as the 6J7's show up (incoming 6J7's are RCA).  Strong endorsements on the KR 6N7 combo from two of my tube advisors .


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> Ok, well I know what I'm going straight for as soon as the 6J7's show up (incoming 6J7's are RCA).  Strong endorsements on the KR 6N7 combo from two of my tube advisors



I think you are in for a real treat, Greg!!

.


----------



## chrisdrop

I came across this on another site:

_



			If you haven't already, you might also enjoy the oddball 2C22/7193. It is a 6J5GT, modified for service in transmitters. The leads running from one rack level to the next presented themselves as antennas, so they made twin top-caps, one for the plate, another for the control-grid. This allowed a really short lead from the top of the tubes, to be routed through the bottom of the rack above. The lead length was much shorter, the inductance issue solved. The average example measures like a strong 6J5GT because they lowered the plate resistance a tad, simultaneously increasing the transconductance a tad, maintaining the same mu of 20. The dissipation rating is also increased, as well as voltage insulation ratings. They were made for stability of characteristics through a long life.
		
Click to expand...

_
Found this adapter. 

Anyone ever tried these? Will they work? Here are a few KRs on eBay.


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> I came across this on another site:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes they will work don't know how they will sound though.  I suppose they will sound good.


----------



## DecentLevi (Mar 4, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> I came across this on another site:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In this post a few months ago here I mentioned my experience with 7193 on another tube amp. That was towards the beginning of my tube rolling journey 6 years ago on the Project Ember amp. They were great but not quite up to the 6J5 performance like Visseaux or even Sylvania, in the opinion of several of us. YMMV


----------



## 2359glenn

Well I am done with buying expensive GEC6AS7s.  Had one fail got a replacement now the replacement failed.
Went with a loud pop then hum.  I was worried that it blew my Vrite phones but it didn't.
Now using a pair of NEC6AS7s that sound almost as good.
We buy these expensive tubes as NOS but who knows?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Sorry Glenn, that stinks.  I bet those Japanese tubes last longer, pairs I have had are very quiet.  Lots of sketchy sellers out there, or people who don't really know the condition of the tubes they are selling, sometimes I don't think they even know what NOS means.  If it glows, its NOS!


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Well I am done with buying expensive GEC6AS7s.  Had one fail got a replacement now the replacement failed.
> Went with a loud pop then hum.  I was worried that it blew my Vrite phones but it didn't.
> Now using a pair of NEC6AS7s that sound almost as good.
> We buy these expensive tubes as NOS but who knows?


You just had bad luck with expensive tubes. 5998, now GEC. I haven't touched my power tube for close to a year.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Switched out the metal KR 6N7 for a Visseaux 6N7 in glass envelope.  Using with the 6J7’s adapted to C3g sockets and have in Quad of 6080...

Also super nice sounding!! Hard pressed which 6N7 is better.

Sound stage is rich and engaging when using the 6J7 pair...


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Well I am done with buying expensive GEC6AS7s.  Had one fail got a replacement now the replacement failed.
> Went with a loud pop then hum.  I was worried that it blew my Vrite phones but it didn't.
> Now using a pair of NEC6AS7s that sound almost as good.
> We buy these expensive tubes as NOS but who knows?



Maybe you should switch to using 6BX7 / 6BL7? But I suspect that this would not be a trivial modification....


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> Well I am done with buying expensive GEC6AS7s.  Had one fail got a replacement now the replacement failed.
> Went with a loud pop then hum.  I was worried that it blew my Vrite phones but it didn't.
> Now using a pair of NEC6AS7s that sound almost as good.
> We buy these expensive tubes as NOS but who knows?


These tubes are super old. Amazing most of them still even work. Like you said, in well designed amps like yours and Mischa's, you don't need to be using the super expensive tubes. I'm mainly running used Mullard 6080's that I got for a good price from Billington, and if they blow... well I have plenty more. The GEC power tubes are fun to bring out once in a while, but mostly sit in my "collectors corner" and will be sold when I retire. They are now such old and rare antiques that it almost pains me to use them.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn said:


> Well I am done with buying expensive GEC6AS7s.  Had one fail got a replacement now the replacement failed.
> Went with a loud pop then hum.  I was worried that it blew my Vrite phones but it didn't.
> Now using a pair of NEC6AS7s that sound almost as good.
> We buy these expensive tubes as NOS but who knows?


Sorry to hear that Glenn. My Haltron branded A1834 tubes have been living in my Darna for months now and luckily I had no problem so far (knock on wood.) These are very lovely sounding tubes.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> These tubes are super old. Amazing most of them still even work. Like you said, in well designed amps like yours and Mischa's, you don't need to be using the super expensive tubes. I'm mainly running used Mullard 6080's that I got for a good price from Billington, and if they blow... well I have plenty more. The GEC power tubes are fun to bring out once in a while, but mostly sit in my "collectors corner" and will be sold when I retire. They are now such old and rare antiques that it almost pains me to use them.



You intend to sell them when you retire? Hmmm... I'm retired... maybe I should sell mine? Nah... I'm going to keep them.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

The trick is to swap them out, spread it around, then no one tube gets overworked.  At least that's what I tell myself.  Today it is WE 421A, tomorrow Tung-Sol 6BX7, the next day GEC 6AS7G, and so on.  I suppose this is the advantage of a tube rolling amp, with others you just have to have a back stock


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I think you are in for a real treat, Greg!!
> 
> .


Tried a tube very similar to the the 6J7 - the 6K7. I am endeavoring  to understand the differences between the 6J7 and 6K7 from the spec sheets but I don't understand what the minor differences mean. So back to the the most sensitive instrument that we possess: the human ear.
The 6K7 sounds very good with a natural timbre and very good detail but less musical than the 6J7. Now, the differences are there, but I cannot make an apples to apples comparison since I have mainly RCA 6J7 and GE and K-R 6K7.
If you want to try them I would suggest the 6J7.


JazzVinyl said:


> Switched out the metal KR 6N7 for a Visseaux 6N7 in glass envelope.  Using with the 6J7’s adapted to C3g sockets and have in Quad of 6080...
> 
> Also super nice sounding!! Hard pressed which 6N7 is better.
> 
> Sound stage is rich and engaging when using the 6J7 pair...


Visseaux 6N7G or 6N7GT?


----------



## Monsterzero

In case anyone was on the fence about adding a VC to compliment your Glenn,ZMF is releasing stabilized wood series. I might have to upgrade...these blow my mind!
They have a tighter faster decay than the mokeypod and other softer woods.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Tried a tube very similar to the the 6J7 - the 6K7. I am endeavoring to understand the differences between the 6J7 and 6K7 from the spec sheets but I don't understand what the minor differences mean. So back to the the most sensitive instrument that we possess: the human ear.
> The 6K7 sounds very good with a natural timbre and very good detail but less musical than the 6J7. Now, the differences are there, but I cannot make an apples to apples comparison since I have mainly RCA 6J7 and GE and K-R 6K7.



I've been anxiously awaiting this report.  I think you said the 6J7 tubes took some time to break in before they sounded good.  Is it possible the 6K7 needs more time, or have you already ruled out that question?


----------



## maxpudding

Monsterzero said:


> In case anyone was on the fence about adding a VC to compliment your Glenn,ZMF is releasing stabilized wood series. I might have to upgrade...these blow my mind!
> They have a tighter faster decay than the mokeypod and other softer woods.



damnnnnn


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Well I am done with buying expensive GEC6AS7s.  Had one fail got a replacement now the replacement failed.
> Went with a loud pop then hum.  I was worried that it blew my Vrite phones but it didn't.
> Now using a pair of NEC6AS7s that sound almost as good.
> We buy these expensive tubes as NOS but who knows?




Sorry to hear, glad your headphones are ok.
Need to build you an amp using EL34 tube...you can spend a lot for older ones but the newer ones are plentiful and cheap.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> I've been anxiously awaiting this report.  I think you said the 6J7 tubes took some time to break in before they sounded good.  Is it possible the 6K7 needs more time, or have you already ruled out that question?


I did not have the 6K7 in more than around 10 hours, but there was a certain harshness to the sound that made me switch back to the 6J7. In addition, whereas the 6J7 sounded better with the K-R 6N7, it did not improve the sound of the 6K7. The sound of the 6K7 may change with time....don't know.
Just put in another 6N7G tube - a 1946 National Union. Sounds very good but a bit of hum R channel. Switched to a 1957 Visseaux 6N7G - better. Just like JV, can't decide which is better - the K-R or the Visseaux; both are excellent.


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Well I am done with buying expensive GEC6AS7s.  Had one fail got a replacement now the replacement failed.
> Went with a loud pop then hum.  I was worried that it blew my Vrite phones but it didn't.
> Now using a pair of NEC6AS7s that sound almost as good.
> We buy these expensive tubes as NOS but who knows?



Hopefully you were not wearing the headphones at the time?  That's the scariest aspect of it IMO.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Tried a tube very similar to the the 6J7 - the 6K7. I am endeavoring  to understand the differences between the 6J7 and 6K7 from the spec sheets but I don't understand what the minor differences mean. So back to the the most sensitive instrument that we possess: the human ear.
> The 6K7 sounds very good with a natural timbre and very good detail but less musical than the 6J7. Now, the differences are there, but I cannot make an apples to apples comparison since I have mainly RCA 6J7 and GE and K-R 6K7.
> If you want to try them I would suggest the 6J7.
> 
> Visseaux 6N7G or 6N7GT?



I have both, but am using the GT currently.  Plan to stay with this a week before trying the ST (coke bottle) Visseaux 6N7.


----------



## JazzVinyl

@mordy - thank you for trying the 6K7 and mega thank you's for discovering the 6J7's!!

I love the 6J7's - they add incredible magic to the GOTL.  I was very pleased with EL32's adapted to the C3g sockets in driver triplet mode, but I do believe the 6J7's leave the EL32's in the dust.

Been incredibly pleased with 6J7's with a quad of 6080's and a 6N7 as triplet with the 6J7's...

Fantastic!  Thanks again, @mordy !!!


----------



## mordy

Thanks for your kind words.
I am listening to the same tube configuration and it really is special. Found my 6N7 box with tubes acquired from the eBay bargain stores a couple years ago. Had no idea that I have about a dozen metal 6N7 tubes. They are from WWII (VT-96) and from the early 50's - RCA, National Union, K-R, GE and also a couple of GT tubes from NU and a Visseaux rebrand (Neotron).
Agree that the 6J7 sounds better than the Mullard EL32. I wonder if the current draw has a relationship to the sound in the GOTL. The 6J7 draws 0.3A and the EL32 0.2A.
ATM using a RCA 6N7/VT96 from the winter 1943 - more delicate sounding than the K-R but beautiful.
Amazing that these driver tubes for a couple of dollars sound better than the acclaimed 6SN7 tubes !


----------



## maxpudding

Thank you for the tube suggestions guys. Can't wait to get that PM from Glenn, been stocking up on tubes these past few months. The missus hasn't figured it out yet


----------



## mordy

Neither has my wife:
Q: Why do you have so many of those glass thingamajings?
A: Looking for sonic perfection....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Hey @Xcalibur255 any thoughts on good sounding NOS 45 tubes?  Excluding the uber rare/expensive globe models, for now.  Asking for a friend


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey @Xcalibur255 any thoughts on good sounding NOS 45 tubes?  Excluding the uber rare/expensive globe models, for now.  Asking for a friend



They all sound good.    Seriously, that's not a cop-out answer, it's one of the best things about this type of tube.  Also, get ready for a long rambling post because I love talking about 45s.  

The major dividing line is between ST and globes.  The globes are just better period, and the difference is large enough you don't have to listen critically to identify.  It just adds a +2 or +3 to everything good about the 45 sound, especially in terms of being able to listen *into* the mix.  There is nothing wrong with the ST tubes though and that's where I recommend starting out.  There are differences between the ST style in terms of resolution and transparency, but not big ones, and each of the brands has their own flavor in terms of tone.  But that's primarily what you are rolling for are flavors, not for significant changes in resolution.  

The big question, really, is if you are going to be a fan of the 45 sound itself.  Before I say anymore it's possible that *my* 45 amp isn't representative of the 45 sound in general, and since I've only ever heard my own I can't confirm, but I have to assume that it is.  That said the 45 "sound" is kind of unique to my ears compared to many other tube amps.  It's characterized by noticeable sense of density and weight to the sound that at first can come off as being "thick" or even stuffy sounding.  Your ears have to calibrate themselves for a minute before you can start to get a feel for what you're listening to.  If you are one of those guys who likes an artificially huge soundstage and greatly values an "airy" and open sound you may not like the 45 presentation.  Not to say that the soundstage isn't wide or that there isn't space between notes because there is.  It's kind of hard describe..... it's like there is just MORE musical information period and this greater density to the sound sort of demands a bit more concentration from you the listener to take in.  The reward for this is depth.  If you listen with focus you are able to listen VERY deeply into the mix.  It's like being able to see down into a lake as opposed to just seeing the reflection on the surface of the water.  Everything has more texture and roundness making it sound more real, but I could see a casual listener calling the sound soupy or muddy if they can't get past the initial experience.

Again, this is my experience with my amp.  I have no idea if it's representative.  I will say I love the sound, but if I'm being honest I'm not *always* in the mood for it because it really requires you to sit down and have a very serious listening session to get the full experience.

I hope some of this makes sense.  It's really quite difficult to describe in words how this really sounds.  I think it's much closer to the music, maybe that's the best way to sum it up, but not everybody WANTS to be closer to the music in that way.  

As for starting recommendations for some ST 45s....... I find that some of them do kind of track the "house sound" of the brands.  Sylvanias for example have that slightly sweet and lifted upper midrange and more lit-up sound that many Sylvania tubes tend to have.  The RCAs are well balanced from top to bottom and are an easy pick.  The odd duck of the bunch would be Tung-Sol.  Maybe I have an atypical pair of 45 Tung-Sols, but I find them to be quite different sounding from other TS tubes I've heard.  They are nice sounding, but there is a noticeable suck-out in the midrange that leaves them sounding 'U' shaped.  Paired with the right driver it can be a really nice sound, and also very useful for taming brighter headphones, but paired with the wrong gear it can sound a bit wonky and unbalanced.  I can't say anything about National Union, the pair I originally bought had a bad tube and I never tried to pick up another pair again.  There aren't really a lot of makers.  Basically Ken-Rad (which are the brand of my globes and my absolute favorite 45 hands down), RCA, Sylvania, Tung-Sol and NU are the makers.  I think Raytheon made their own too, but they're hard to tell apart from RCAs and might just be RCAs unless you are after the "4 Pillar" Raytheon which is one of those golden goose 45 tubes.  If you see GE, Philco, or various other brands they are going to be a re-brand of one of the above.  The easiest way to identify who made what is by the internal construction, the top mica style used in particular is the most reliable way to ID.  The Tung-Sols, for example, have an oval top mica that looks just like the one used on the BGRP 6SN7, but you will also see ones with a cross shaped mica and these are going to be RCA rebrands.

One final thing:  you will find some differences in sound as you go further back in age.  You have the globes from the late 20's and early 30's, the ST tubes with engraved bases from the mid and late 30's and finally printed base 45s from the early 40's into about 1950 which is when manufacturing dwindled off on them.  Each of those three "eras" kind of has their own flavor.  Again none of them sound bad and I suggest exploring all three, but say you try a green printed base Sylvania (probably the single easiest 45 to find on eBay) and it's not quite what you were looking for sound-wise...... well, going back a few years to the same tube with the chalky black plates and engraved base might tweak the flavor of the sound in line with what you want and it'll click for you.

I would start with RCA or Sylvania to get your bearings.  They are still easy to find and cheap enough.  If you want to tamp down a little of that "density of sound" I was trying to describe grab a Sylvania, otherwise the RCAs are a great base line and do nothing wrong.

I.......... think that covers it?  Hopefully more than 3% of that makes sense.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 6, 2020)

@Xcalibur255 what an invaluable post!  I was expected a few sentences and got a treatise, thanks very much 

I have been reading about the 45 sound, many quote it as the "tone king" of the DHT tubes, and it has created a strange allure for me, along with the desire to build a true DHT amplifier. 

While I have been waiting for the OPTs to arrive for my 6A5 amp, I have designed another, idle hands are the devil's playground as they say.  Right now it is a SS rectified, CCS loaded 6J5 input and 45 parafeed output stage, also CCS loaded as opposed to plate choke.

I know the globes are the best money can buy, but as you advise, I would likely start out with a more budget NOS ST-shaped pair.  I was pleased to see the ST pairs are not insanely expensive on the eBay market, which is another draw.  Seems you can get a decent ST pair for $75-100, not bad at all.  The Sylvanias seem easy to come buy, as well as National Union.  If this design is finished, I'll likely get my hands on a globe pair eventually, but the prices are not friendly, as expected.

Anyhow, thank you for imparting your knowledge, I will be keeping a copy of your post somewhere for review.  If I stay on this path, we may have more to discuss on the 45 in the not-so-distant future...


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Thanks for your kind words.
> I am listening to the same tube configuration and it really is special. Found my 6N7 box with tubes acquired from the eBay bargain stores a couple years ago. Had no idea that I have about a dozen metal 6N7 tubes. They are from WWII (VT-96) and from the early 50's - RCA, National Union, K-R, GE and also a couple of GT tubes from NU and a Visseaux rebrand (Neotron).
> Agree that the 6J7 sounds better than the Mullard EL32. I wonder if the current draw has a relationship to the sound in the GOTL. The 6J7 draws 0.3A and the EL32 0.2A.
> ATM using a RCA 6N7/VT96 from the winter 1943 - more delicate sounding than the K-R but beautiful.
> Amazing that these driver tubes for a couple of dollars sound better than the acclaimed 6SN7 tubes !


Today listening to a an early adopter (pun intended) - a 1940 National Union 6N7 metal tube with the 6J7/6080. The sound is very nice; direct and lively. Each one has its own flavor (K-R, RCA and NU so far of the metal ones, and NU and Visseaux of the glass ones) but it is all good.
This combination has an uncanny ability to convey the emotional impact and immediacy of the recordings.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 6, 2020)

BTW, loving this Head-Fi glitch that is making GIANT EMOJI'S!!!  Or maybe it is just me?  Thought something seemed out of place re-reading my post, that is one aggressive emoji


----------



## mordy

It ended up in Toronto:


----------



## Xcalibur255

@L0rdGwyn 

6J5 should work well driving the 45.  Not that the C3g doesn't do the job well, it's just kinda a little overkill.  I think you could get the exact same output power just getting rid of the 45s and using the C3g in a OTA configuration.  I have read there are some upsides to having very "ballsy" driver stages though, so maybe it's all good.

As for globes, once you have a feel for which brand of tube has the tone you like, I would track down the nicest pair of globes you can find from that make and call it good.  If you bias them a little below their rated 10W dissipation they will last a very long time outside of unforseeable things like the tube becoming gassy or whatnot.  RCA/Cunningham globes aren't too hard to find, and tubes that have the same plate configuration as my Ken-Rad UX245s pop up from time to time as well.  Sylvania globes exist as the SX-245 but they are quite rare, and the most desirable is the Raytheon 4-Pillar Box Plate but they are extremely rare.  If NU made a globe I haven't seen one yet, and I'm pretty sure TS didn't either.

There is also the Emission Labs new productions, which are widely considered to be better than all NOS tubes including globes.  If globe prices creep up to match them then they become a no-brainer, but really you should be able to get the pair of globes you want for under 300 still.  That's what I paid for mine but my pair was truly a gem.  They cold bias within 0.5mA of each other, talk about getting lucky with tube matching.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

@Xcalibur255 

Thanks for the tip, that is a very sound approach.  I know tone is not always univeral across a manufacturers' various tube models, but in the past, Tung-Sol and Sylvania have been favorites of mine from the American makes.  Maybe I will start there with the ST tubes and see what I think, then upgrade to globe.  $300 seems like a great price for a globe pair based on my very limited experience, and incredibly well-matched!  I'm surprised to hear the new production EML are considered better than the NOS.  I am a sucker for aesthetics, I don't find them to be as pretty as the old production tubes, but I am probably biased (no pun intended).  Definitely worth investigating if the sound is that good.

I really like the 6J5 family, helps that I have a nice collection of these tubes on hand.  The 6J5 has more than twice the voltage swing necessary to drive the 45 to full output, so should work quite well.  An advantage to CCS loading the 6J5 is getting the maximum gain out of the driver stage too.  The 45 also has a relatively low input capacitance, which means no worries about high-frequency rolloff (output resistance of the driver stage and input capacitance of the power stage form a low-pass RC filter).  As it stands right now, the 45 will be biased at 180V 31.5mA, so about 5.7W dissipation at idle, so the tubes should last a long time I think.  This lower voltage bias is good since CCS loading requires roughly twice the plate voltage to reach full output, so I can put together a 400ish V power supply instead of a 600V power supply for a more common 250V bias.

I'll keep you abreast of any 45 tube purchases, but I won't pull the trigger until this project is a 100% go.  It is a much easier design than my other amp though, so it is coming together pretty quickly.  I am not plagued by all of the quirks of using a tube rectifier


----------



## Xcalibur255

Oh, wow, at that dissipation any 45 tubes you have will basically last forever.  Mine get run flat out (36mA bias, chosen by me, and 275 plate volts) and I have had no issues with any of my tubes getting weak.  I do kind of wish I was at 250V instead of 275V.  Glenn was going for output power, but this amp isn't driving speakers so I can't imagine there is much difference.  He also feels DHTs simply sound better when pushed hard and since he knows 100x more about this than I do then I tend to take that at face value.

I don't know what the 45 sounds like running at only 50% like that, maybe better maybe worse but I'm sure it will be different.  Maybe quite a bit different.  My amp has manual bias on the output stage.  I can't control the plate voltage, but I can control the current.  There is an audible difference adjusting this up and down.  What it primarily affects, to my ears, is transparency and the sheer resolution of the amp.  Going by the curves 36mA is the "proper" bias for 275V, so pulling it back is going to make the tube less linear and increase distortion, and I can hear this and demonstrate it for myself if I reduce bias.  Glenn doesn't believe me when I tell him that I can hear a 1mA change in bias, but I really can.  Yes, it's super subtle, but it's there.  It's like adjusting the focus on a microscope.  Starting at 30 and working up to 36 in 1mA increments I can hear the sound coming more and more into focus and becoming more transparent.

This is all for a manual bias amp.  Since your circuit is going to be pretty different maybe none of this applies to you.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Hmmm that's very interesting, I don't doubt you can hear the difference, the linearity may improve a bit at slightly higher plate current, would be interesting to measure it!  

Yeah at a 180V bias, the tubes will still drive any headphones to ear and headphone destroying volumes.  After crunching the numbers today, I would likely be seeing ~125mW into 300ohms, 1.15W into 32ohms, so should be plenty. I typically use 300ohm headphones though, that would give the 45 a pretty high plate load with the transformers I want to use, so distortion on the output should be very low.

That's cool you can adjust the fixed bias, I'm sure it is fun to mess around with and will be very useful as the tubes age.  As of right now, I am planning to use autobias.  One advantage of a parafeed output is the ability to set it up with an "ultrafeed" connection.  Without getting too into the details, basically the connection prevents cathode degeneration on the output stage in autobias so you don't need to use a bypass capacitor.  One less electrolytic cap in the signal path.  I'm gonna make another thread for this amp if/when I build it, but probably more abbreviated than the other one, all that writing and picture taking takes a lot of time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Let me know when you are looking at tubes.  I'll help you ID the ones I am familiar with.  45s are kind of a mess when it comes to figuring out who made them, there was a lot of cross-branding.  For example my RCA recommendation is on the assumption you get ones with cross shaped mica supports.  They also made ones with circular micas and I haven't heard those and may sound different.  In fact the tubes with the cross shaped support are the biggest challenge with 45s, because I'm not completely sure I have them correctly ID'd as RCAs, and in fact there might be more than one maker that used that mica style.  RCA, Ken-Rad and Raytheon all seem viable as a source for them, but several tube sellers have told me their belief is that RCA was the maker of them, then switched to the circular style later on so this is what I go off of.  They seem to pop up under more brand names than some other styles though.

Some other types are much easier to nail down, and there are some patterns to the re-branding too.  I can reliably tell you when a tube is a Sylvania or a NU for example, and not all of the NU tubes are made by NU either!  Tung Sols show up with both the oval micas, which I'm sure are Tung Sols, and the cross-shaped ones which I'm *sort* of sure aren't made by them.

The globes are actually easier.  The RCA/Cunninghams are easy to spot, and many re-brands from this era just rebranded Cunninghams.  My Ken-Rads show up with other brands on them too including NU and Raytheon and Ken-Rad being the true manufacturer is just my best guess on that one.  Sylvanias made globes are easy to ID too.

It's...... kind of a mess, but it's a fun mess.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I sure will, happy to have a 45 expert helping me out  I will know probably in the next week or two whether or not I am going to do it for sure, hard to get off the train now that it is moving.  I will keep you posted!  Thanks again.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Today listening to a an early adopter (pun intended) - a 1940 National Union 6N7 metal tube with the 6J7/6080. The sound is very nice; direct and lively. Each one has its own flavor (K-R, RCA and NU so far of the metal ones, and NU and Visseaux of the glass ones) but it is all good.
> This combination has an uncanny ability to convey the emotional impact and immediacy of the recordings.



Nice, Mordy!  I do not own a metal NU 6N7!!  Wish I did!

I switched this evening, too...to the FDD20 (a 12v 6N7).  And as triplet with the KR 6N7's and quad of 6080, sounding really delicious!  The 6J7's added are what this tube needed!  Wow, soundstage is dramatic.  Subtlest of sounds / tones are brought forward.

So far the KR metal 6N7 along with the metal KR 6J7's have been my favorite, but the FDD20 is giving the KR 6N7 a run for it's money!!

Love the "Blue Glass" look of the FDD20, too,  

This is the first time I have heard the FDD20 as I remembered it in other amps.  The 6J7's did it!

Great stuff, @mordy !!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 6, 2020)

​


----------



## leftside

My tubes and tube amps are to the left in this photo.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice, Mordy!  I do not own a metal NU 6N7!!  Wish I did!
> 
> I switched this evening, too...to the FDD20 (a 12v 6N7).  And as triplet with the KR 6N7's and quad of 6080, sounding really delicious!  The 6J7's added are what this tube needed!  Wow, soundstage is dramatic.  Subtlest of sounds / tones are brought forward.
> 
> ...



Has anybody tried the 6A6 it is the predecessor of the 6N7 but will need a different adapter.
It is a old 7 pin tube.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Has anybody tried the 6A6 it is the predecessor of the 6N7 but will need a different adapter.
> It is a old 7 pin tube.



@UntilThen had a collection of these tubes.

Nice article here from Vinyl Savor: http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2013/02/tube-of-month-6a6.html

Looks very linear on the curve tracer, better than the datasheet.


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> @UntilThen had a collection of these tubes.



I blame @gibosi. He set me off on a collection (should I say collusion) course on 6A6 tubes. First it was a simple and cheap Philco 6A6, followed by 3 National Union 6A6 !!!. Thereafter I had to buy every single 6A6 under the sun. Pair of Visseaux, Fivre 6A6 followed. Of course there's the big chunky white marshmallow adapter from China. Now it's on lockdown because of Coronavirus !

I just want to report that @paramesh is very happy with his GOTL or should I say my GOTL  I have been providing him after sales service. Yesterday I ask him to try Siemens c3g and 6 x 6bx7gt. He came back and told me that he fell off the chair in pure ecstasy after trying it.

Anyway it's a weekend home to Sydney and I brought my Studio Six / Verite along and my itchy fingers couldn't resist buying a mint condition and dirt cheap HD650. This was my 2nd headphone in my head-fi journey. The 1st HD650 I modded and butchered it. Sounds good but looks terrible. So I gave it to a friend and now I pick up another HD650 that looks like it's hasn't been use much. It's like new. It's nothing fancy but not offensive either. Close your eyes and it's still music. Enjoy yours !

Excuse the intrusion but @L0rdGwyn woke me up from my hibernation. 

Hehe I still have the NAD d1050 dac that my wife gave me from 3 years ago.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> I blame @gibosi. He set me off on a collection (should I say collusion) course on 6A6 tubes. First it was a simple and cheap Philco 6A6, followed by 3 National Union 6A6 !!!. Thereafter I had to buy every single 6A6 under the sun. Pair of Visseaux, Fivre 6A6 followed. Of course there's the big chunky white marshmallow adapter from China. Now it's on lockdown because of Coronavirus !
> 
> I just want to report that @paramesh is very happy with his GOTL or should I say my GOTL  I have been providing him after sales service. Yesterday I ask him to try Siemens c3g and 6 x 6bx7gt. He came back and told me that he fell off the chair in pure ecstasy after trying it.
> 
> ...



I enjoy the HD650, not the most resolving compared to newer summit-fi headphones, but I really think it scales well with upstream improvements and has a great tonality.  In 2003, this was one of the best headphones money could buy, for $550 USD!!!  Still relevant, and perfect for tubes.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I blame @gibosi. He set me off on a collection (should I say collusion) course on 6A6 tubes. First it was a simple and cheap Philco 6A6, followed by 3 National Union 6A6 !!!. Thereafter I had to buy every single 6A6 under the sun. Pair of Visseaux, Fivre 6A6 followed. Of course there's the big chunky white marshmallow adapter from China. Now it's on lockdown because of Coronavirus !
> 
> I just want to report that @paramesh is very happy with his GOTL or should I say my GOTL  I have been providing him after sales service. Yesterday I ask him to try Siemens c3g and 6 x 6bx7gt. He came back and told me that he fell off the chair in pure ecstasy after trying it.
> 
> ...



Yeah, it seems I get blamed for a lot of things around here... lol 

True, I tried a few American-made 6A6 but wasn't impressed enough to then chase after Visseaux and Fivre. Of the common cathode types I tried, 6A6, 6N7, FDD20 and ECC31, the Mullard was, and still is, my favorite.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

The Fivre 6N7G is quite nice too, up there with the Mullard, IMO.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice, Mordy!  I do not own a metal NU 6N7!!  Wish I did!
> 
> I switched this evening, too...to the FDD20 (a 12v 6N7).  And as triplet with the KR 6N7's and quad of 6080, sounding really delicious!  The 6J7's added are what this tube needed!  Wow, soundstage is dramatic.  Subtlest of sounds / tones are brought forward.
> 
> ...


I have a FDD20 but it is modded so that it has an octal base and needs an external power supply. Will try it with the 6J7 when I get enough motivation to pull out the external power supply and voltage regulator......


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I enjoy the HD650, not the most resolving compared to newer summit-fi headphones, but I really think it scales well with upstream improvements and has a great tonality.  In 2003, this was one of the best headphones money could buy, for $550 USD!!!  Still relevant, and perfect for tubes.


If anybody has an interest in the Sennheiser HD650, Drop (formerly Massdrop) can sell you a new one for $195. So far they have only sold 94,200 of them.....
Seriously, I think that it is encouraging that there still are many people out there that care for good sound.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I blame @gibosi. He set me off on a collection (should I say collusion) course on 6A6 tubes. First it was a simple and cheap Philco 6A6, followed by 3 National Union 6A6 !!!. Thereafter I had to buy every single 6A6 under the sun. Pair of Visseaux, Fivre 6A6 followed. Of course there's the big chunky white marshmallow adapter from China. Now it's on lockdown because of Coronavirus !
> 
> I just want to report that @paramesh is very happy with his GOTL or should I say my GOTL  I have been providing him after sales service. Yesterday I ask him to try Siemens c3g and 6 x 6bx7gt. He came back and told me that he fell off the chair in pure ecstasy after trying it.
> 
> ...




I have owned the HD650 about three times...and I have thought about snagging another at times, when I see them for a good deal...so far I have not gave in.


----------



## paramesh

L0rdGwyn said:


> I enjoy the HD650, not the most resolving compared to newer summit-fi headphones, but I really think it scales well with upstream improvements and has a great tonality.  In 2003, this was one of the best headphones money could buy, for $550 USD!!!  Still relevant, and perfect for tubes.



this is quite a spot on statement .. 
when i heard the apex teton first time .. paired with the 650 ..i couldnt believe what i heard ..
it superseded every other HP in terms of tonality and presentation 
recently The GOTL ( Siemens c3g and 6 x 6bx7gt.. thanks to @UntilThen tip of this configuration ) was simply stunning ... truely sublime ..
i couldnt believe the resolution ..surely  short of the utopia .but very adequate with which the presentation strikes a great balance for ample musicality ..
the senhiesers HD series ( 600 and 650 ) scale crazily ..as good as the upstream gear .. 
and any value doesnt matter ..


----------



## paramesh

UntilThen said:


> I blame @gibosi. He set me off on a collection (should I say collusion) course on 6A6 tubes. First it was a simple and cheap Philco 6A6, followed by 3 National Union 6A6 !!!. Thereafter I had to buy every single 6A6 under the sun. Pair of Visseaux, Fivre 6A6 followed. Of course there's the big chunky white marshmallow adapter from China. Now it's on lockdown because of Coronavirus !
> 
> I just want to report that @paramesh is very happy with his GOTL or should I say my GOTL  I have been providing him after sales service. Yesterday I ask him to try Siemens c3g and 6 x 6bx7gt. He came back and told me that he fell off the chair in pure ecstasy after trying it.
> 
> ...


i can imagine those gorgeous tubes !!.and those two fabulous HPs ..u cant ask for anything else ..
i dont see myself getting that rectifier anytime now ...


----------



## gibosi

paramesh said:


> i can imagine those gorgeous tubes !!.and those two fabulous HPs ..u cant ask for anything else ..
> i dont see myself getting that rectifier anytime now ...



Rectifier? Which rectifier?


----------



## paramesh

gibosi said:


> Rectifier? Which rectifier?


Oh. The GEC u52 in the studio 6 .. which works in Another amp of mine.


----------



## gibosi

paramesh said:


> Oh. The GEC u52 in the studio 6 .. which works in Another amp of mine.



For sure, a very nice rectifier, and yes, usually expensive.


----------



## JazzVinyl

paramesh said:


> this is quite a spot on statement ..
> when i heard the apex teton first time .. paired with the 650 ..i couldnt believe what i heard ..
> it superseded every other HP in terms of tonality and presentation
> recently The GOTL ( Siemens c3g and 6 x 6bx7gt.. thanks to @UntilThen tip of this configuration ) was simply stunning ... truely sublime ..
> ...



i like a very old pair of Senn 580’s much better than the 650’s.


----------



## mordy

And I like an even older HD250......


----------



## paramesh

JazzVinyl said:


> i like a very old pair of Senn 580’s much better than the 650’s.


Oh yes.


----------



## paramesh

mordy said:


> And I like an even older HD250......


That’s a classic !  Linear 1 or 2?


----------



## mordy

paramesh said:


> That’s a classic !  Linear 1 or 2?


Linear II - it is from around 1997-2002 and in new condition. Monster (pun intended) bass - he recommended it.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Linear II - it is from around 1997-2002 and in new condition. Monster (pun intended) bass - he recommended it.


I love that headphone. Mine is the Linear 1.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I have owned the HD650 about three times...and I have thought about snagging another at times, when I see them for a good deal...so far I have not gave in.



I post the picture on the HD650 thread and someone ask how the Verite and HD650 compare. My first thought is that there is no comparison. Verite walks all over the HD650 in terms of resolution, clarity, details, soundstage and sub-bass. However over the weekend, I listen to the HD650 more and more. The fullness of the midrange is special and if it's vocals I'm listening to, it gets top marks. Seeing that the HD650 is 7% of Verite cost - HD650 cost me AUD $250 and Verite cost me AUD $3600, I'd hesitate to say that Verite walks all over HD650 now.


----------



## UntilThen

paramesh said:


> The GOTL ( Siemens c3g and 6 x 6bx7gt.. thanks to @UntilThen tip of this configuration ) was simply stunning ... truely sublime ..



Glad you like GOTL. Glad it went to someone who appreciates the sonic qualities that the amp can produce. That said Siemens c3g and 6 x 6bx7gt isn't my favourite combination. You have 3 B36 and you should try them. Of course I kept my favourite drivers ( Mullard ECC33 and Sylvania 6sn7w metal base) for my Studio Six. 

Some of the pentodes that you have are quite special too. EL11, EL3N, EL32. There's also the GEC L63.


----------



## paramesh

UntilThen said:


> Glad you like GOTL. Glad it went to someone who appreciates the sonic qualities that the amp can produce. That said Siemens c3g and 6 x 6bx7gt isn't my favourite combination. You have 3 B36 and you should try them. Of course I kept my favourite drivers ( Mullard ECC33 and Sylvania 6sn7w metal base) for my Studio Six.
> 
> Some of the pentodes that you have are quite special too. EL11, EL3N, EL32. There's also the GEC L63.




i am in no rush to try them all at one go .. rather savour it one combination at a time ..giving each and every HP its time 
its took me couple of weeks with the b36 /7bx7gt ... and now its memory and i can relate to changes ..with C3g 

it took you a heck of while to arrive here ..and whats the fun if have a go with all of them randomly ..
with the stash left ...this trip is going to take a while ... just enjoy the ride .. that what the GOTL is all about i guess ..


----------



## 2359glenn

Just won a sleeve of five Sylvania 6J5s for $19.99 not bad.
Want to try these Sylvania's


----------



## Celty

2359glenn said:


> Just won a sleeve of five Sylvania 6J5s for $19.99 not bad.
> Want to try these Sylvania's


Ha! Congrats


----------



## 2359glenn

Celty said:


> Ha! Congrats



Hoping to get them before the weekend.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 9, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> Just won a sleeve of five Sylvania 6J5s for $19.99 not bad.
> Want to try these Sylvania's


I almost bid on those,but I have a lot of Sylvania already,albeit not the metal can versions. I bought a quad of Sylvania 6BX7s from the same seller last week but havent rolled them in yet.

If you wanna sell two of them to me let me know.

My next audio purchase will be a McIntosh 4100,so saving coins for that....(after I pay off this last power cable)


----------



## Monsterzero

PSA: There are two different ads up in the classifieds for GEC U52s.
No affiliation.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Just won a sleeve of five Sylvania 6J5s for $19.99 not bad.
> Want to try these Sylvania's



Very confident you will approve of them, Glenn  

I am running a TS 12SN7 BGRP and KR 6J7's and Quad of 6080....and I approve!

Cheers!


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> PSA: There are two different ads up in the classifieds for GEC U52s.
> No affiliation.


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nk...lc=1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_fosrp=1


----------



## GDuss

2359glenn said:


> Hoping to get them before the weekend.



I won a quad of Sylvania 6C5's for $20 that just got here last week.  Brand new in box, all with the same codes on them.  I don't know what year they are from, but they have the yellow Sylvania boxes like the ones on the left in the photo below.  Really impressive stage and very high "musicians in the room" factor, with a quad of Sylvania 6080's (WB's from '64 to '68).  The only thing that was lacking was the low end, but if you can get past that, they're excellent.  

These Sylvania's are on my list to try in combination with the RCA 6J7's once I get done listening to the RCA's with the KR 6N7, which is proving to be quite the fun experiment.  It's taken some time for the 6J7's to open up (Mordy warned me) but they're getting there.  This KR 6N7 and RCA 6J7 combo has fantastic tone and great bass, as you might expect with the KR in the mix.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Just won a sleeve of five Sylvania 6J5s for $19.99 not bad.
> Want to try these Sylvania's


Glass bottle or metal jackets?


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Glass bottle or metal jackets?



They are metal but if they have good sound who cares.


----------



## maxpudding

2359glenn said:


> They are metal but if they have good sound who cares.



Agreed. If it glows, the price goes up.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> I won a quad of Sylvania 6C5's for $20 that just got here last week.  Brand new in box, all with the same codes on them.  I don't know what year they are from, but they have the yellow Sylvania boxes like the ones on the left in the photo below.  Really impressive stage and very high "musicians in the room" factor, with a quad of Sylvania 6080's (WB's from '64 to '68).  The only thing that was lacking was the low end, but if you can get past that, they're excellent.
> 
> These Sylvania's are on my list to try in combination with the RCA 6J7's once I get done listening to the RCA's with the KR 6N7, which is proving to be quite the fun experiment.  It's taken some time for the 6J7's to open up (Mordy warned me) but they're getting there.  This KR 6N7 and RCA 6J7 combo has fantastic tone and great bass, as you might expect with the KR in the mix.



Looking good GDUSS...

I compared the KR 6N7 (used with the KR 6J7 pair) to Visseaux 6N7GT last night and it seems that I prefer the Visseaux 6N7GT.

The Visseaux seens to make a bit more in the Sound Stage department. more separation between instruments and some sort of “professional glow” in the timbre and presence.

i initially thought the metal KR 6N7 was the winner, but leaning towards the Visseaux 6N7GT now...

Again that is in driver triplet mode with KR 6J7’s and quad of 6080’s (2x Sylvania and 2x Mullard).  

Cheers


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> They are metal but if they have good sound who cares.


I totally agree with you Glenn. Was just curious which ones to look for...


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> Looking good GDUSS...
> 
> I compared the KR 6N7 (used with the KR 6J7 pair) to Visseaux 6N7GT last night and it seems that I prefer the Visseaux 6N7GT.
> 
> ...



I don't have a Visseaux 6N7, need to track one down to try it.  The KR 6N7 with the RCA 6J7's seems to be improving every evening I listen to them (which has been the last 4 nights).  It's either the tubes breaking in or my brain becoming accustomed to the sound (or both).  Either way, I'm liking it more.  Two nights ago I did switch in a pair of RCA 6C5's in place of the KR 6N7 (still with the RCA 6J7's) and that was not better at all.  I'm not sure why, it sounded confused in some way (maybe too much RCA sound), but I didn't give it enough time to properly evaluate.


----------



## hpamdr

JazzVinyl said:


> Looking good GDUSS...
> 
> I compared the KR 6N7 (used with the KR 6J7 pair) to Visseaux 6N7GT last night and it seems that I prefer the Visseaux 6N7GT.
> 
> The Visseaux seens to make a bit more in the Sound Stage department. more separation between instruments and some sort of “professional glow” in the timbre and presence.


If you like the Visseaux 6N7GT, you should also like the mullard ECC31 or even FDD20 if you can heat 12V..  To me those tubes are in the same league with  a bit of emphasis for bass but still very a balanced sound. Perfect match with GEC 6AS7G or 6080 for long late night listening session...


----------



## chrisdrop

2359glenn said:


> Just won a sleeve of five Sylvania 6J5s for $19.99 not bad.
> Want to try these Sylvania's


... I keep putting Sylvania 6J5s back in the amp ...


----------



## mordy (Mar 11, 2020)

Notes from our research Dept:

I like the 6J7 tube. Most of them seem to be made in the US - the usual major brands. Have been looking for other manufacturers abroad. There is a Russian  6Ж7 which is supposed to be a 6J7:



Then there are fire engine red 6J7 tubes - I have a penchant for red tubes. This is a Mullard:



But wait - where is it made? It says USA.... Maybe I should just spray paint mine...
But are there 6J7 tubes made in the UK?
Here is a Raytheon:



And a Sylvania:



And GE:



And did I tell you that there is even a German stahlröhre variant?



Haltron was a British re-brander.
Fake news or real? All these furrin tubes have a nice shiny appearance and no rust unlike some of the US made:



The only 6J7 tubes that are consistently new and shiny looking are the Russian ones, but the Svetlanas have an engraved logo which isn't present on the foreign made black ones:



Maybe somebody can help me figure out if there were British and German made 6J7 tubes, or if they are Russian fakes? But why would anybody fake an uncommon tube with low price and no demand?
PS: There are some inconsistencies in the above notes - special mention if you pick them up.....


----------



## Velozity

After 4 months of enjoying my GOTL with the stock rectifier I decided to give it an upgrade.  Enter a NOS GEC U18/20, the 4V cousin to the U52.  This is the single most expensive tube I've purchased to date and early listening so far has me very pleased.  It will now permanently reside perched atop the high-quality @Deyan adapter, standing sentry as the tallest point of my amplifier as it delivers clean power to the tubes below.  Boy I love this hobby!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 11, 2020)

Very nice U18/20 @Velozity , I will be using the same in a short while.  I got some nice tubes today too, must be one of those days.

Here are the three major models of the Telefunken REN904, a 4V preamp tube.  Gold pre-WWII, silver peri-WWII, gray post-WWII (on the later shouldered version, the heater current was reduced to 0.65A rather than 1A).  I have an adapter with resistors inside to drop the voltage for short sampling in the GOTL.  They are...well, I built an amp for them, so suffice to say I like them a lot!  Very difficult to find in NOS condition though, they are very old.


----------



## 2359glenn (Mar 11, 2020)

Velozity said:


> After 4 months of enjoying my GOTL with the stock rectifier I decided to give it an upgrade.  Enter a NOS GEC U18/20, the 4V cousin to the U52.  This is the single most expensive tube I've purchased to date and early listening so far has me very pleased.  It will now permanently reside perched atop the high-quality @Deyan adapter, standing sentry as the tallest point of my amplifier as it delivers clean power to the tubes below.  Boy I love this hobby!



Is that a U18/20 to 3DG4 adapter?  I hope there is no burning hot resistors in it to drop 5 volt to 4 volt.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> I don't have a Visseaux 6N7, need to track one down to try it.  The KR 6N7 with the RCA 6J7's seems to be improving every evening I listen to them (which has been the last 4 nights).  It's either the tubes breaking in or my brain becoming accustomed to the sound (or both).  Either way, I'm liking it more.  Two nights ago I did switch in a pair of RCA 6C5's in place of the KR 6N7 (still with the RCA 6J7's) and that was not better at all.  I'm not sure why, it sounded confused in some way (maybe too much RCA sound), but I didn't give it enough time to properly evaluate.



I got my Visseaux 6N7GT brand new in the box from a site in Singapore!   Will see if I still have the email.  I also have a 1940's G Visseaux 6N7 that I have not tried yet.

Same thing happened here, when I tried a pair of RCA 6C5's instead of a 6N7 with the pair of 6J7's.  I quickly went back to the Visseaux 6N7.
And my of my, it is ever sounding good!  That KR 6N7 is good,  too!!

Enjoying Jethro Tull's "Minstrel In The Gallery" via remastered Hi-Rez files.   

"One White Duck On Your Wall"    

Cheers!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Found it!

Here is my Visseaux 6N7GT:

http://tubes.tw/shop/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=6N7&x=0&y=0

He has lots more.


----------



## mordy

hpamdr said:


> If you like the Visseaux 6N7GT, you should also like the mullard ECC31 or even FDD20 if you can heat 12V..  To me those tubes are in the same league with  a bit of emphasis for bass but still very a balanced sound. Perfect match with GEC 6AS7G or 6080 for long late night listening session...


Tried now with my mid 1940's Mullard 10E/453 RAF tube - sounds good with the 6J7 and 4x6080.
This tube is roughly three times the size of the 6J7 and exudes quality. It has a quick heat feature for those emergency take-offs. If you don't know what to expect, it can really scare you - the tube flashes up bright orange for a second when you turn it on.
They say about very large animals like elephants that the bigger they are, the slower they move. (The only exception is a bear, which moves very quickly in relation to its size.)
Well, as good as this Mullard ECC31 (10E/453) sounds tonally, it still lacks in the dynamics and slam in comparison to its steely American cousins - especially the K-R, NU and GE 6N7 tubes. (The Visseaux 6N7GT is also very good, but I prefer the metal ones.)
In sum, the ECC31 sounds good with the 6J7 tubes but a softer and slower presentation than the K-R 6N7.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Very nice U18/20 @Velozity , I will be using the same in a short while.  I got some nice tubes today too, must be one of those days.
> 
> Here are the three major models of the Telefunken REN904, a 4V preamp tube.  Gold pre-WWII, silver peri-WWII, gray post-WWII (on the later shouldered version, the heater current was reduced to 0.65A rather than 1A).  I have an adapter with resistors inside to drop the voltage for short sampling in the GOTL.  They are...well, I built an amp for them, so suffice to say I like them a lot!  Very difficult to find in NOS condition though, they are very old.


Hi LG,
Why do I get hungry when I see the pictures of the 4V tubes - must associate it with candy - marshmallows?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> Why do I get hungry when I see the pictures of the 4V tubes - must associate it with candy - marshmallows?



A lollipop perhaps?  They do look rather delectable


----------



## A2029

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> Why do I get hungry when I see the pictures of the 4V tubes - must associate it with candy - marshmallows?



Corn dog?


----------



## mordy

A2029 said:


> Corn dog?


Exotic foods!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Tried now with my mid 1940's Mullard 10E/453 RAF tube - sounds good with the 6J7 and 4x6080.
> This tube is roughly three times the size of the 6J7 and exudes quality. It has a quick heat feature for those emergency take-offs. If you don't know what to expect, it can really scare you - the tube flashes up bright orange for a second when you turn it on.
> They say about very large animals like elephants that the bigger they are, the slower they move. (The only exception is a bear, which moves very quickly in relation to its size.)
> Well, as good as this Mullard ECC31 (10E/453) sounds tonally, it still lacks in the dynamics and slam in comparison to its steely American cousins - especially the K-R, NU and GE 6N7 tubes. (The Visseaux 6N7GT is also very good, but I prefer the metal ones.)
> In sum, the ECC31 sounds good with the 6J7 tubes but a softer and slower presentation than the K-R 6N7.



I agree Mordy!

I like the ECC31 too and the FDD20 but when using the 6J7's as triplet, the 6N7's have it (FDD20 better than ECC31).  With my HD580's the Visseaux 6N7GT is the overall winner with the metal KR 6N7 close behind.


----------



## Velozity

2359glenn said:


> Is that a U18/20 to 3DG4 adapter?  I hope there is no burning hot resistors in it to drop 5 volt to 4 volt.



Yes, at least that's what I asked @Deyan to build.  It should be just straight through wiring.  I guess I could put a meter on it to check, but it didn't feel any warmer than a socket saver.


----------



## mordy

Velozity said:


> Yes, at least that's what I asked @Deyan to build.  It should be just straight through wiring.  I guess I could put a meter on it to check, but it didn't feel any warmer than a socket saver.


I use this type of inexpensive infrared thermometer and find it useful. It projects a red laser dot and you can pinpoint the temperature at different spots.



I do notice that the prices have increased some 50% lately (I assume because of the virus fear).


----------



## chrisdrop

Keep your chin-up wherever you are in the world. 

I, for one, am happy to stay home with Glenn's creation. Home, listening happily. 

Wash your hands, but ... DON'T wash your amps! 



Be well all.

Happy listening:


----------



## 2359glenn

Velozity said:


> Yes, at least that's what I asked @Deyan to build.  It should be just straight through wiring.  I guess I could put a meter on it to check, but it didn't feel any warmer than a socket saver.



If it had a resistor in it it would be Hot Hot Hot


----------



## Deyan

2359glenn said:


> If it had a resistor in it it would be Hot Hot Hot



It doesn't have a resistor.


----------



## chrisdrop

Back on c3gs for the past day or so. Lost a matching yellow sticker on the one pictured right here. I guess they are old enough that losing a sticker is not unsurprising. I swapped headphone pads (to the Universe pads), which are a bit more thumpy. They added a nice balance to the c3gs. REALLY enjoying them today. I was about to start a c3g slot adapter rolling and it may be a few days before I get there. 

A view from the chair of listening...




Happy listening,
Chris


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Lost a matching yellow sticker on the one pictured right here. I guess they are old enough that losing a sticker is not unsurprising.



Exact same thing happened to me the last time I put the C3g's in.  They still sound the same though .


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> Back on c3gs for the past day or so. Lost a matching yellow sticker on the one pictured right here. I guess they are old enough that losing a sticker is not unsurprising. I swapped headphone pads (to the Universe pads), which are a bit more thumpy. They added a nice balance to the c3gs. REALLY enjoying them today. I was about to start a c3g slot adapter rolling and it may be a few days before I get there.
> 
> A view from the chair of listening...
> 
> ...




Looking fantastic, Chris!

You should try the 6J7's adapted to C3g sockets plus a 'cheap as chips' 6N7 in the sn7 slot!!


----------



## gibosi

For those who are interested in 4-volt rectifiers:

A Cossor 45-IU has recently been listed on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOV-45-IU-...-Tube-BBC-BVA-U18-Fw4-500-Cossor/184206211325

It can provide up to 250ma, and as the listing suggests, it is electrically similar to the Mullard FW4-500 and GEC U18/20.

But for those of us in the US, shipping is pretty expensive...


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 13, 2020)

gibosi said:


> ...it is electrically similar to the Mullard FW4-500 and GEC U18/20.



But with 3.5A filaments, compared to 2.8A and 3A for the U18/20 and FW4-500, respectively.  Not an issue for GOTL users, issue for me unfortunately


----------



## chrisdrop

JazzVinyl said:


> Looking fantastic, Chris!
> 
> You should try the 6J7's adapted to C3g sockets plus a 'cheap as chips' 6N7 in the sn7 slot!!


This, JV, is a mission I will be accepting...


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Back on c3gs for the past day or so. Lost a matching yellow sticker on the one pictured right here. I guess they are old enough that losing a sticker is not unsurprising. I swapped headphone pads (to the Universe pads), which are a bit more thumpy. They added a nice balance to the c3gs. REALLY enjoying them today. I was about to start a c3g slot adapter rolling and it may be a few days before I get there.
> 
> A view from the chair of listening...
> 
> ...



Hi CD,
Losing a sticker is not so bad, but  losing a tube anode cap is much worse, not to speak of dealing with loose bases on old tubes. Whenever I get a European old tube I use crazyglue around the base of the anode cap and also crazyglue the base. For some reason these problems are much less common with US made tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

@Xcalibur255 I bought some 45 tubes.  This pair tested NOS by TV-7 by a friend of the seller, then put in storage.  He didn't have the equipment to retest, so a bit of a gamble for me, but thought I could get them at a good price, paid $61 + shipping.  How did I do?  Guess it depends if they work lol but I have a good feeling.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-4...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> For those who are interested in 4-volt rectifiers:
> 
> A Cossor 45-IU has recently been listed on eBay.
> 
> ...



This tube has a cathode sleeve so it is not a FW4-500 or GEC U18/20.
In my opinion that makes it better I am not a big fan of direct heated rectifiers.
The cathode sleeve has a slower turn on or slow start up.
I am waiting to see what this is going for before I bid on it.


----------



## 2359glenn (Mar 14, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> @Xcalibur255 I bought some 45 tubes.  This pair tested NOS by TV-7 by a friend of the seller, then put in storage.  He didn't have the equipment to retest, so a bit of a gamble for me, but thought I could get them at a good price, paid $61 + shipping.  How did I do?  Guess it depends if they work lol but I have a good feeling.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-45-Radio-Audio-Amplifier-Tube-Pair-/324094972612?nma=true&si=Dk1m6CPpNHAS3MW7zpOcM7wZPNo%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



Ask @Xcalibur255 how the 46 sounds in his amp.  He has adjustable bias but you can make the CCS adjustable.
The 46 is a interesting tube look it up and it is cheap a little less power but not a big deal with headphones.
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/029/4/46.pdf


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 14, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> Ask @Xcalibur255 how the 46 sounds in his amp.  He has adjustable bias but you can make the CCS adjustable.
> The 46 is a interesting tube look it up and it is cheap a little less power but not a big deal with headphones.



Well @Xcalibur255 , how does it sound?  Interesting, a dual grid triode (as opposed to tetrode).

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2016/12/tube-of-month-46-revisited.html

I have been going back and forth about fixing the CCS or using a pot so I can adjust the current, would have to be of good quality.  Would need a way to read it, unless I want to put a DMM in series every time I make a change...trying to keep the footprint small, a bit tricky with absolutely enormous film caps inside.  Also, I have been trying to find a datasheet for the 45-IU for months, no bones.  The rectifier winding in my amp is rated for 3.1A, maybe I could push it to 3.5A, but probably better not to...must...suppress...tube...rolling...urges...


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Also, I have been trying to find a datasheet for the 45-IU for months, no bones.



Yeah, I haven't been able to find anything other than this Valve Museum Page:

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aad0016.htm


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> Yeah, I haven't been able to find anything other than this Valve Museum Page:
> 
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aad0016.htm



Same, it doesn't even have a Radiomuseum.org page, has to be some info on it somewhere out there.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well @Xcalibur255 , how does it sound?  Interesting, a dual grid triode (as opposed to tetrode).
> 
> http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2016/12/tube-of-month-46-revisited.html
> 
> I have been going back and forth about fixing the CCS or using a pot so I can adjust the current, would have to be of good quality.  Would need a way to read it, unless I want to put a DMM in series every time I make a change...trying to keep the footprint small, a bit tricky with absolutely enormous film caps inside.  Also, I have been trying to find a datasheet for the 45-IU for months, no bones.  The rectifier winding in my amp is rated for 3.1A, maybe I could push it to 3.5A, but probably better not to...must...suppress...tube...rolling...urges...



You can go over a little on one winding if the other winding's are not loaded to their max on the power transformer.

See if you can get some small meters and measure the cathode current of the output tube.
The 46 is cheep enough to run them a little over current. But price is going up for these nice sounding tubes.
I think @Xcalibur255 runs them a little over to get the best sound out of them with no problem.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> You can go over a little on one winding if the other winding's are not loaded to their max on the power transformer.
> 
> See if you can get some small meters and measure the cathode current of the output tube.
> The 46 is cheep enough to run them a little over current. But price is going up for these nice sounding tubes.
> I think @Xcalibur255 runs them a little over to get the best sound out of them with no problem.



I'll look into it Glenn, thanks for the idea.


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> This, JV, is a mission I will be accepting...



Oh!  I am glad to hear this Chrisdrop!  I think you will love it!  Can't wait to hear your impressions!

6J7's need adapters....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Any Frank Zappa fans?

Listening to his fantastic album: "Apostrophe"...

Sooooooooooooo many layers of tiny details, that the GOTL reveals!

Loving this


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> @Xcalibur255 I bought some 45 tubes.  This pair tested NOS by TV-7 by a friend of the seller, then put in storage.  He didn't have the equipment to retest, so a bit of a gamble for me, but thought I could get them at a good price, paid $61 + shipping.  How did I do?  Guess it depends if they work lol but I have a good feeling.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-45-Radio-Audio-Amplifier-Tube-Pair-/324094972612?nma=true&si=Dk1m6CPpNHAS3MW7zpOcM7wZPNo%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



As long as they work fine in the amp (not noisy, not gassy) you did good.  45s are not usually microphonic either so I wouldn't worry too much on that front.  Very good price, especially for a pair with original boxes.  Those are genuine Sylvanias in case you wanted to be sure, that is the Sylvania mica support style and plate type for the era.  I have a pair just like this that are re-branded Hytron.

As for the 46, I said here once I think it would probably be worth building an amp that uses them specifically, they are good enough for that.  It's a different flavor than the 45, whether it's better or worse depends on what you like.  What type of headphone you are using will matter a lot too.  That "density" of sound I tried to describe?  The 46 doesn't have that.  It is a much more airy and open sound.  In Glenn's amp it is anyway.  I also have no idea if I bias them right.  I recall setting them to 30mA because I didn't know what was "right" for them.  I think I found out later I was running the absolute crap out of them, to the tune of something like 150% maximum dissipation, but they never red plated and sound VERY good running that way. Most of the datasheets won't actually give you a maximum plate current for the 46 for some weird reason.

I was quite smitten with the sound, but I only use planar headphones with the amp.  If you throw something like an HD800 at the situation it might be too much of a good thing I'm guessing.  On the other hand I think the 45 sound would be very good for the HD800.  All about synergy.  I remember really liking the 46 sound the last time I tried it, and my pair is junk too, they're super noisy and microphonic.  So much so that it's distracting and present in the music, and still I thought the resolution was at least as good as the 45 overall. Maybe this is how they sound when you abuse them?  It's hard to say.

I can try them again and refresh my memory if you'd like.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Oh, I found a Cunningham data sheet I hadn't seen before.  I'm running them over voltage AND over current lol!  250V max and 22mA max, and I was feeding them 275V and 30mA.  Yikes.  This is for a 46 globe though, maybe the ratings are a little higher for the newer ST tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Also, it looks like the 46 *used* to be cheap.  Every pair on eBay right now is going for prices higher than 45s.  Not sure when that happened, maybe there is a commercial amp out there using them driving demand now?

Nobody makes a new 46 either so there is that.  It's like the 10Y, if you're going to use one in a design you better hoard some of them before they're gone, and that's a lot of upfront cost in addition to building the amp.  I kind of have this secret love affair with the 10Y but could never convince myself I wanted an amp with one because of the scarcity issue.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 14, 2020)

Xcalibur255 said:


> As long as they work fine in the amp (not noisy, not gassy) you did good.  45s are not usually microphonic either so I wouldn't worry too much on that front.  Very good price, especially for a pair with original boxes.  Those are genuine Sylvanias in case you wanted to be sure, that is the Sylvania mica support style and plate type for the era.  I have a pair just like this that are re-branded Hytron.
> 
> As for the 46, I said here once I think it would probably be worth building an amp that uses them specifically, they are good enough for that.  It's a different flavor than the 45, whether it's better or worse depends on what you like.  What type of headphone you are using will matter a lot too.  That "density" of sound I tried to describe?  The 46 doesn't have that.  It is a much more airy and open sound.  In Glenn's amp it is anyway.  I also have no idea if I bias them right.  I recall setting them to 30mA because I didn't know what was "right" for them.  I think I found out later I was running the absolute crap out of them, to the tune of something like 150% maximum dissipation, but they never red plated and sound VERY good running that way. Most of the datasheets won't actually give you a maximum plate current for the 46 for some weird reason.
> 
> ...



Glad to hear I didn't make a bad choice (again, assuming there is nothing wrong), they certainly pass the eyeball test...I would say they test...98% of NOS from the photo  the mica support is very similar to the Sylvania 6A5G I have from that time period.

Building an amp for the 46 you say?  Hmmm yeah I quick scan of eBay I did earlier today told me the same, they definitely are not cheap, not insanely expensive either though, around $120 for a NOS pair.  Heck, better than some of the OTL tube prices these days, the prices are getting outrageous.

My main headphone right now is the ZMF Auteur, which I think probably falls somewhere in the middle of HD800 airiness and planar girthiness, I tend to find it isn't too picky, so hopefully a good match for the 45.  I had planned to pick up a ZMF Verite (closed, most likely) at some point this year, but plans keep changing.

Thanks for offering to retry the 46, no worries on doing it now, but I might take you up on it in the future!  Totally unrelated to their performance, they are some sharp looking tubes, would look really nice in an amplifier.

Anyhow, I will keep you posted on new developments, this 45 amp is a 100% go now, I am excited.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glad to hear I didn't make a bad choice (again, assuming there is nothing wrong), they certainly pass the eyeball test...I would say they test...98% of NOS from the photo  the mica support is very similar to the Sylvania 6A5G I have from that time period.
> 
> Building an amp for the 46 you say?  Hmmm yeah I quick scan of eBay I did earlier today told me the same, they definitely are not cheap, not insanely expensive either though, around $120 for a NOS pair.  Heck, better than some of the OTL tube prices these days, the prices are getting outrageous.
> 
> ...



There is also the 47 pentode that would use the same adapter as the 46. Very cheep but from what I remember they 
don't sound as good as the 45 and 46.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> @Xcalibur255 I bought some 45 tubes.  This pair tested NOS by TV-7 by a friend of the seller, then put in storage.  He didn't have the equipment to retest, so a bit of a gamble for me, but thought I could get them at a good price, paid $61 + shipping.  How did I do?  Guess it depends if they work lol but I have a good feeling.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-45-Radio-Audio-Amplifier-Tube-Pair-/324094972612?nma=true&si=Dk1m6CPpNHAS3MW7zpOcM7wZPNo%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


Hi LG,
You did well price wise - here is how I gauge it: Go to the left column on the eBay page of the tube in question and scroll down to SOLD ITEMS. When you click on it you will see a list of sales for this item from the past two months. A cursory look shows that most pairs went for more:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
Which amp is going to be finished first?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 14, 2020)

mordy said:


> Hi LG,
> You did well price wise - here is how I gauge it: Go to the left column on the eBay page of the tube in question and scroll down to SOLD ITEMS. When you click on it you will see a list of sales for this item from the past two months. A cursory look shows that most pairs went for more:
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
> Which amp is going to be finished first?



Thanks, mordy.  That is a very good question...I would still think the 6A5 amp, but with delay after delay with the transformers, who knows.  I am starting to order parts for the new amp tomorrow, the rate-limiting steps are the transformers and chassis, those will likely take a 4-6 weeks.


----------



## chrisdrop

JazzVinyl said:


> Any Frank Zappa fans?
> 
> Listening to his fantastic album: "Apostrophe"...
> 
> ...


My absolutely favourite Zappa album. Hard to pick a fav track, but the lyrcs from "Nanook Rubs It" always crack me up.


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> My absolutely favourite Zappa album. Hard to pick a fav track, but the lyrcs from "Nanook Rubs It" always crack me up.



I love most of Frank's stuff  

This album last night...absolutely an incredible treasure trove of rich, tiny details that make it extra enjoyable, thanks to the GOTL with 6N7/6J7 and quad of 6080's...

Also faves by him:

Over-Nite Sensation
One Size Fits All
The Grand Wazoo
Sleep Dirt
Joe's Garage Act I

Cheers, Chrisdrop!


----------



## JazzVinyl

This is the Paper Towel/Toilet Paper Aisle at our local supermarket:



W~T~F !?!?!?


----------



## mordy

I think that people are panic buying because they are afraid that they will be forced to stay home for weeks. At the local Costco they ran out of toilet paper and water.
Tomorrow all public schools will close in New York City as well as in New Jersey. The CDC warns against any gathering of 50 people or more.
These are difficult times and statistically older people (over 60) are more at risk than younger people - for some reason this flu does not seem to affect young children.
It is important to listen to local health authorities and follow their directives. 
It is difficult to enjoy listening to music when such a big cloud of the unknown is hanging over us.....


----------



## chrisdrop

Right now, for me, listening to music can provide some respite from a wild world. 

There is a very British saying which resonates with me presently; "keep calm and carry on". 

Be well everyone.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> This is the Paper Towel/Toilet Paper Aisle at our local supermarket:
> 
> 
> 
> W~T~F !?!?!?



Same way here in North Carolina crazy.  What do they think the water is going off.
I think food is more important then toilet paper.


----------



## Celty

2359glenn said:


> Same way here in North Carolina crazy.  What do they think the water is going off.
> I think food is more important then toilet paper.


Lemmings


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Same way here in North Carolina crazy.  What do they think the water is going off.
> I think food is more important then toilet paper.




Same way here also.
Good news is that due to all of the panic buying...Wal-Mart has opened check out number 3


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 16, 2020)

mordy said:


> I think that people are panic buying because they are afraid that they will be forced to stay home for weeks. At the local Costco they ran out of toilet paper and water.
> Tomorrow all public schools will close in New York City as well as in New Jersey. The CDC warns against any gathering of 50 people or more.
> These are difficult times and statistically older people (over 60) are more at risk than younger people - for some reason this flu does not seem to affect young children.
> It is important to listen to local health authorities and follow their directives.
> It is difficult to enjoy listening to music when such a big cloud of the unknown is hanging over us.....



I think you are right mordy.  The goal of these measures is to "flatten the curve" of new cases.  The sharp rise of cases in Italy and China overwhelmed their healthcare systems, many people were not able to get optimal care, which is a large part of why the mortality rates have been so high there.  If we can blunt the curve, systems can take in cases as they come and not overextend hospital resources.  The critical illness that may follow the infection, acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), is very serious and demands significant attention from hospital staff, having a massive influx of patients with this condition is a very bad situation to be in.  Those who are immunocompromised (the elderly, existing health conditions) are more vulnerable, so please be vigilant!  Good hygiene and "social distancing" are the tools at our disposal right now.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 16, 2020)

When I first encountered the empty TP aisle at the groc store (a little more than a week ago), I thought "must be a FB directive".
I am not on FB and didn't know I was supposed to horde TP for a respiratory virus...

I said same to my family, as a joke.   My sister (who, like many, LIVES for FB), confirmed that it is FB that is telling people to horde Paper Towels and TP!!

FB has already demonstrated that they can get people to do what they want them to do by awarding little "prize" banners/icons when you DO as you are supposed to do...

Maybe this is another demonstration of their amazing power over *sheeple.*

When you have time, this documentary about AI is an absolute *must see*:


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> I think food is more important then toilet paper.


True, but certain time after you eat... you'll need the toilet paper!


----------



## leftside

Zachik said:


> True, but certain time after you eat... you'll need the toilet paper!


Not really. In desperate times, you just need running water. Many Europeans have a bidet.

Same the world over with the toilet paper. All our shelves are empty in the stores. I have a feeling I'll be staying at home a lot the next few weeks listening with tube amps.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Those w/o TP will surely perish first.  Running water, or not.

I have a little flat bed trailer, I plan to troll the neighborhood (like the ice cram man used to) and charge a couple rolls of TP to haul off the dead.

Me, and Sparky...the rescue dog:


----------



## Zachik

JazzVinyl said:


> Those w/o TP will surely perish first.





JazzVinyl said:


> I plan to troll the neighborhood (like the ice cram man used to) and charge a couple rolls of TP to haul off the dead.


Hmmm.......   
Your logic is flawed - those who perish first have no TP, so you cannot charge rolls of TP to haul off the dead!  Hah!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Family members will have hidden it! 

When Uncle Bill starts stinkin’ the truth will emerge!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Curious about these NOS Visseaux metal 6J7's:

https://www.ebay.com/i/133339962365


----------



## maxpudding

Stay safe everyone

Here in my home country, almost everyone is in panic mode (instead of tissues they are panic buying ramen noodles, powdered drinks, loaves of bread, and condensed milk) even though the government is not implementing a total lockdown due to the rising cases of covid19, just a restriction of movement and all non-essential government and private sectors are ordered to shutdown (work from home policy) until the 31st of March.

Well, time for some catching up on movies and some gaming!


----------



## JazzVinyl

I hope all the efforts to keep a lid on the Virus, work.  

Interesting that this appears to have started by a human consuming a wild animal that had been infected with the virus, via a bat bite.


----------



## Zachik

JazzVinyl said:


> Interesting that this appears to have started by a human consuming a wild animal that had been infected with the virus, via a bat bite.


I have heard some conspiracy theories... I guess it is hard to tell anymore what's true and what's fake news (or plain old conspiracy).


----------



## JazzVinyl

Oh I have heard the conspiracy stuff too.  

But these virus' have a long history of coming from a human consuming an infected animal.   SARS started the same way.  Remember the "swine flu" and "bird flu"?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 17, 2020)

CDC for the facts and general guidelines: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/index.html

I like the videos from Roger Seheult, he is a pulmonary intensivist who runs a YouTube channel called MedCram, he has been making a video series cataloguing the progression of the virus and new research developments since the breakout in Wuhan.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> CDC for the facts and general guidelines: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/index.html
> 
> I like the videos from Roger Seheult, he is a pulmonary intensivist who runs a YouTube channel called MedCram, he has been making a video series cataloguing the progression of the virus and new research developments since the breakout in Wuhan.




Nice - confirms:  Animal->Humans.

I had read originated from a "live animal market" in China, > 90 percent chance the virus came from, a "scaly anteater" called the Pangolin which has long been considered a delicacy in China. The Pangolin having been been bitten by a bat at some point.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Lots of TikTok videos making fun of COVID-19, because:  "it only kills old people"...


----------



## GDuss

This is a good website for anyone interesting in tracking the latest numbers as well as trends.  The Daily New Cases will likely top 1000 today.  The link is for US numbers but a few other countries are also available (unfortunately it's a short list):

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

What would be nice is if people looked at this as a group game where we collectively track the curves and try to flatten them in semi-real time with all of our actions.  Ideally, success would motivate people to keep working at it.


----------



## 2359glenn

maxpudding said:


> Stay safe everyone
> 
> Here in my home country, almost everyone is in panic mode (instead of tissues they are panic buying ramen noodles, powdered drinks, loaves of bread, and condensed milk) even though the government is not implementing a total lockdown due to the rising cases of covid19, just a restriction of movement and all non-essential government and private sectors are ordered to shutdown (work from home policy) until the 31st of March.
> 
> Well, time for some catching up on movies and some gaming!



Here in the US the stores are out of toilet paper NUTS. And water do they think the virus is going to cause the water to go off????
There are fights breaking out over toilet paper REALLY a bunch of morons!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Here in the US the stores are out of toilet paper NUTS. And water do they think the virus is going to cause the water to go off????
> There are fights breaking out over toilet paper REALLY a bunch of morons!!!



Guns and ammo also selling like hotcakes!

Give a guy a gun, then tell him he can't wipe....


----------



## maxpudding

2359glenn said:


> Here in the US the stores are out of toilet paper NUTS. And water do they think the virus is going to cause the water to go off????
> There are fights breaking out over toilet paper REALLY a bunch of morons!!!



Yes, exactly, can’t argue with these people. I’m just afraid it’ll get worse. The government here issued a restriction of movement notice, with 3/4 of the country in shutdown mode, hoping to contain the virus spread by telling people to work from home (or stay indoors) and don’t attend religious and social gatherings. Basically, minimizing social interactions.

But nope, they think this is an opportunity for them to go for holidays, or to go back to their hometown for two weeks, causing massive traffic jams on the highway. It’s crazy!


----------



## Zachik

JazzVinyl said:


> Give a guy a gun, then tell him he can't wipe....


That is how you turn normal people into trigger-happy maniacs!


----------



## JazzVinyl

maxpudding said:


> Yes, exactly, can’t argue with these people. I’m just afraid it’ll get worse. The government here issued a restriction of movement notice, with 3/4 of the country in shutdown mode, hoping to contain the virus spread by telling people to work from home (or stay indoors) and don’t attend religious and social gatherings. Basically, minimizing social interactions.
> 
> But nope, they think this is an opportunity for them to go for holidays, or to go back to their hometown for two weeks, causing massive traffic jams on the highway. It’s crazy!



Oh, that is not good!

The "minimize social interaction" is the only way to keep it from spreading like wildfire!

There are some good documentaries on the 1918 pandemic that killed 50 to 100 million people worldwide (not saying this one will) but we, as humans, should know how this goes!


----------



## mordy

maxpudding said:


> Yes, exactly, can’t argue with these people. I’m just afraid it’ll get worse. The government here issued a restriction of movement notice, with 3/4 of the country in shutdown mode, hoping to contain the virus spread by telling people to work from home (or stay indoors) and don’t attend religious and social gatherings. Basically, minimizing social interactions.
> 
> But nope, they think this is an opportunity for them to go for holidays, or to go back to their hometown for two weeks, causing massive traffic jams on the highway. It’s crazy!


That is really terrible to hear, because now they will spread the virus to even more (and remote) places!
Where I live all schools have closed, and people are encouraged to stay home and work from home.
Statistically, the Covid-19 virus is much more dangerous for older people with a much higher mortality rate than younger people. And young people can have it without any symptoms, and then spread it to the elderly. Old is defined as over 60....
Possibly the next step will be that all businesses will close (except for food stores, gas stations and pharmacies) and everybody will be told to shelter at home.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Possibly the next step will be that all businesses will close (except for food stores, gas stations and pharmacies) and everybody will be told to shelter at home.


In some places, *shelter in place* is already happening... like where I live in NorCal...


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> That is how you turn normal people into trigger-happy maniacs!



There will be shootings over toilet paper.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Colorado has all restaurants, bars and gym's closed.  My bank just announced "drive through only" until further notice.

And yes @mordy has it...supposed to be severely limiting social interaction for the next 2 weeks.  As I have already stated, watch the documentary on what happened in 1918.  We already know* how important limiting social interaction is*.

Shockingly. the beaches in FL are packed with young Spring Break revelers'...the airlines, offering $50 fares!


----------



## JazzVinyl

This takes less than 5 minutes of your time:


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Colorado has all restaurants, bars and gym's closed.  My bank just announced "drive through only" until further notice.
> 
> And yes @mordy has it...supposed to be severely limiting social interaction for the next 2 weeks.  As I have already stated, watch the documentary on what happened in 1918.  We already know* how important limiting social interaction is*.
> 
> Shockingly. the beaches in FL are packed with young Spring Break revelers'...the airlines, offering $50 fares!



This don't surprise me I have a person that is 30 working for me.  He thinks he is tough and nothing is going to touch him.
He thinks it is a good idea to start going to the gym again. Fool thinks this is funny
I told him to stay away from me.  I am old with stage 4 cancer this will kill me.
He thinks I am joking I am not!!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 17, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> This don't surprise me I have a person that is 30 working for me.  He thinks he is tough and nothing is going to touch him.
> He thinks it is a good idea to start going to the gym again. Fool thinks this is funny
> I told him to stay away from me.  I am old with stage 4 cancer this will kill me.
> He thinks I am joking I am not!!!!



Yes, Glenn...I have a nephew who is also acting the same.  It likely WON'T get these young fellows.  But, the cooperation of all is what is needed to keep this from infecting everyone.

There are a lot of TikTok videos of millennial's making fun of this...saying: "don't worry, it only kills OLD people".

I am not young, and am taking it,  seriously.

The worst part is you can be pre-symptamatic but contagious, so your young co-worker could infect you before he knows he has it.


----------



## 2359glenn

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, Glenn...I have a nephew who is also acting the same.  It likely WON'T get these young fellows.  But, the cooperation of all is what is needed to keep this from infecting everyone.
> 
> There are a lot of TikTok videos of millennial's making fun of this...saying: "don't worry, it only kills OLD people".
> 
> ...



Millennial's just don't care.  I said to him what if we all get quarantined.  He told me he has second amendment rights and he will go out if he wants.
I should have rights not to have to deal with morons.
Have to work with him all weekend to rebuild a machine.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Millennial's just don't care.  I said to him what if we all get quarantined.  He told me he has second amendment rights and he will go out if he wants.
> I should have rights not to have to deal with morons.
> Have to work with him all weekend to rebuild a machine.



Please don't lump the rest of us millennials in with that guy Glenn lol he is just a moron.


----------



## maxpudding (Mar 17, 2020)

I hope everyone will get through these tough times safely.

Yes @2359glenn, he is a moron. Some of us millennials still care for everyone’s safety. Please wear a mask and use hand sanitizer frequently when you are around him.

@JazzVinyl, although the mortality rate for the older generation is higher, the virus does kill young people too. Just yesterday, a 34 year old male became the second person in our country to die because of covid19. Your nephew should be more informed and aware of his actions do have consequences, especially to the people around him *sighs*


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Please don't lump the rest of us millennials in with that guy Glenn lol he is just a moron.



I didn't mean to lump in all millennial's together.  My children are millennial's I sure hope they aren't acting like this.
Sure they are not.  There are older morons too. A old person at work took off to go to fly to las Vegas I think it is funny
they closed every thing down.  Just another MORON.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

2359glenn said:


> Millennial's just don't care.  I said to him what if we all get quarantined.  He told me he has second amendment rights and he will go out if he wants.
> I should have rights not to have to deal with morons.
> Have to work with him all weekend to rebuild a machine.



Meh. No one knows what the right answer is. Best piece of advice I can give right now is to not call anyone stupid or moronic. The universe will conspire to prove you wrong and make you eat your words. 

I thought everyone was stupid for buying toilet paper. Then I got sick. Now IDK if I had covid19 or not because the hospital would not test me because they had to hold test kits for old folks. However I had (still kind of have) all the major symptoms. 

The universe proved to me that stocking up on toilet paper is REALLY important if you have a chance of getting sick. So now I can no longer call those people moronic. 

So just be careful about what you say and how you view others in these times. You may just regret it like I did lol.


----------



## 2359glenn

Tjj226 Angel said:


> Meh. No one knows what the right answer is. Best piece of advice I can give right now is to not call anyone stupid or moronic. The universe will conspire to prove you wrong and make you eat your words.
> 
> I thought everyone was stupid for buying toilet paper. Then I got sick. Now IDK if I had covid19 or not because the hospital would not test me because they had to hold test kits for old folks. However I had (still kind of have) all the major symptoms.
> 
> ...



But to buy up everything.  What about the rest of the people they don't have the right to have toilet paper?????
Guess the people with money have the right to have.
Like hole NBA teams being tested when other people can't be tested.  The rich get to have and the rest of us get out of the way.


----------



## maxpudding

Sad to hear there arent enough test kits in the US and the rich folks got the upper advantage


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

2359glenn said:


> But to buy up everything.  What about the rest of the people they don't have the right to have toilet paper?????
> Guess the people with money have the right to have.
> Like hole NBA teams being tested when other people can't be tested.  The rich get to have and the rest of us get out of the way.



Im not saying it is good for people to do what they are doing. Im just saying that it isn't as crazy and devoid of reason as people initially thought.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

maxpudding said:


> Sad to hear there arent enough test kits in the US and the rich folks got the upper advantage



Well thankfully right now being rich has very little to do with anything. They are just rationing the kits like crazy. What they told me is that you need to be 40 or above, you need to have traveled to an infected area or have been in contact with someone who was confirmed to have it, or you need to be in critical condition (pneumonia).


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Sorry for the cross-post, but I finished it, and I like this picture.  Thanks for your help along the way, Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sorry for the cross-post, but I finished it, and I like this picture.  Thanks for your help along the way, Glenn.



Looks Beautiful !!!
How does it sound?


----------



## 2359glenn

I went on your thread and see it sounds great.
Why wouldn't it you used the best parts.

Now to just sit back listen and feel good!


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sorry for the cross-post, but I finished it, and I like this picture.  Thanks for your help along the way, Glenn.



Outstanding, LG!!


----------



## maxpudding

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sorry for the cross-post, but I finished it, and I like this picture.  Thanks for your help along the way, Glenn.



Beautiful!


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 18, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sorry for the cross-post, but I finished it, and I like this picture.  Thanks for your help along the way, Glenn.



Looks fantastic LG! Damn good looking Telefunken tubes, headphones, and amp!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Tjj226 Angel said:


> Well thankfully right now being rich has very little to do with anything. They are just rationing the kits like crazy. What they told me is that you need to be 40 or above, you need to have traveled to an infected area or have been in contact with someone who was confirmed to have it, or you need to be in critical condition (pneumonia).



Sorry to hear you got it, Tjj...

I wish you a speedy recovery!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Thanks everyone.  Listening to this amp now hooked up to some 87dB efficient NHT C3 speakers, sounds fantastic, even if it is pushing the limits of the amp.  Have an efficient speaker purchase in my near future, these are not an ideal match


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

JazzVinyl said:


> Sorry to hear you got it, Tjj...
> 
> I wish you a speedy recovery!



Thank you. Thankfully I am pretty much over it. Poor lordgywn had to hear me coughing on the phone all day today lol.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks everyone.  Listening to this amp now hooked up to some 87dB efficient NHT C3 speakers, sounds fantastic, even if it is pushing the limits of the amp.  Have an efficient speaker purchase in my near future, these are not an ideal match


Omen?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 18, 2020)

mordy said:


> Omen?



I have looked at them but never heard Zu's, maybe I can audition them at a show (assuming they aren't all cancelled).  I have a line on an exquisite pair of vintage Snell J/II, but I'm in no rush, especially with the world moving so slow right now.  Lots of time to see what's out there  stand mounts are kind of preferred, because I don't trust my cats around expensive floorstanders lol might make a nice scratching post.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks everyone.  Listening to this amp now hooked up to some 87dB efficient NHT C3 speakers, sounds fantastic, even if it is pushing the limits of the amp.  Have an efficient speaker purchase in my near future, these are not an ideal match




https://www.parts-express.com/dynavox-ly401f-4-full-range-driver--295-614

I got a pair of those on sale with a coupon for 8 bucks a pair. I have tried them in a horn speaker, TL speaker, and a ported box. All of it sounds pretty darn good and I get 90db on most designs and 96db on horns. I am using a 2A3 SET amp, so we have similar power. 

Once I can get back to the work shop I am gonna try a back loaded horn design. 

If you can snag them for cheap they are a VERY impressive little set of drivers. Could be a cheap hold over until you get something bigger and better.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Tjj226 Angel said:


> https://www.parts-express.com/dynavox-ly401f-4-full-range-driver--295-614
> 
> I got a pair of those on sale with a coupon for 8 bucks a pair. I have tried them in a horn speaker, TL speaker, and a ported box. All of it sounds pretty darn good and I get 90db on most designs and 96db on horns. I am using a 2A3 SET amp, so we have similar power.
> 
> ...



Thanks T, I'll check it out, I have toyed with the idea of building speakers, will have to dig into the idea a little bit.  For $20 a piece, might be a fun cheap experiment.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread!


----------



## maxpudding

Tjj226 Angel said:


> Thank you. Thankfully I am pretty much over it. Poor lordgywn had to hear me coughing on the phone all day today lol.



Take care and get well soon!


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sorry for the cross-post, but I finished it, and I like this picture.  Thanks for your help along the way, Glenn.



Great pic and a killer looking amp!
Congrats Keenan.


----------



## Xcalibur255

@L0rdGwyn 

I'm so happy for you.  It's really pretty incredible how quickly you amassed enough knowledge to do this, and the result looks spectactular for a first attempt.  You appear to have a natural talent for this.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Thanks for the kind words @Xcalibur255 !  It sure was a lot to cram into my head in 3 or so months, was pretty much at it non-stop, I tend to get obsessed when working on projects like this, probably an unhealthy level of obsession...if anyone else gets serious about trying to take something like this on, I could point to the resources I used.  But so much of this knowledge is not explained well in books/articles and there are so many mistakes that can be made, even if they seem intuitive.  Being able to bounce ideas off people with experience is immensely helpful.  Whether that was PMing Glenn random questions, or getting on the phone with @Tjj226 Angel to talk through the design.  Once the foundational knowledge is built, it is much easier to learn knew concepts or understand the basics more deeply, but there is still so much to learn.  Rereading books I started out with the second time through a month later, it was like I was reading a different text!  Anyway, long story short, it was exhausting but still a lot of fun, glad it all worked out, rant over


----------



## Xcalibur255

I get obsessed too, but I can't direct it into positive productivity the way you have here.  I can't tell you how impressive that is through my eyes.

Can't wait to see how the 45 project turns out, or are you planning to wait a while on that one?  These builds do suck up quite a bit of money after all.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 19, 2020)

You're right, it is costly, the expense of a second build though is much less since the startup costs are taken out of the equation, that is a big relief.  I am planning on letting some gear go to help pay for it too.  Also cutting some costs using less expensive parts in some cases, nothing that will grossly effect the sound (no crazy expensive Yamamoto sockets this time around!).  Also given it is all CCS loaded, the power supply components can be relatively cheap since they are not in the signal path, which is not the case in a conventional SET output design.

I will probably be forced to wait anyway, no idea if Sowter is still going to be building transformers during this whole mess, waiting to hear back, that will determine the timeline.  David at Landfall Systems is also expecting some supply chain issues on specific materials I want to use for the chassis, so it may get dragged out over months either way.  Time will tell I suppose!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Oh! BTW @Xcalibur255 , I got those Sylvania 45s in the mail, both are free of shorts and test ~95% on my Jackson 648, so a good buy I think


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think I might have a pair of tubes for the amp you just built actually, from a project I had to abandon.  The version of the 2A3 that uses the 6.3V heater and has an octal base right?  I'll go through my drawer and see if they're still in there, but there's actually a better chance that Glenn has them since I send a bunch of stuff to him years ago for this project and it was abandoned.  Either way if we can find them you can have them.  They had an issue with the micas not having proper tension allowing the plates to rattle inside the glass, but it never affected the operation of the tubes.  I ran the pair for about 3 weeks and they were perfect and noise free the whole time.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 20, 2020)

@Xcalibur255  oh really!  They might be 6B4G, which are a close relative but different than 6A5G.  The 6B4G is an octal base 6A3.  The 6A5G differs from the 6B4G in that it has cathode sleeves, so it is indirectly heated, and the heaters are center-tapped and referenced to ground through the cathode.  It is actually a really interesting tube!  #1 you don't have to worry about hum or DC on the filaments since it is indirectly heated, and #2 you don't have to center tap your heater winding to cancel hum since it is built into the tube.  The creation of the 6A5G was an attempt to reduce the noise of the 6B4G, but create a tube that was interchangeable with circuits built for it.  So you get many of the benefits of a DHT without the tricky parts.

I could use 6B4G in this amp, but there will be some AC hum, maybe not a big deal listening on speakers though.  Interestingly with the Visseaux 6A5G I have, I am beginning to think the internals are actually more similar to 6B4G.  Difficult to see, but they may not have cathode sleeves and there is an audible hum when listening.  It really isn't a major bother though and I doubt it could be heard when listening on speakers.  I would be happy to have them if they turn up  thank you.


----------



## whirlwind

I need a couple of hours of music for some insanity.

Got a call from my wife at work yesterday and with all of the rain we had 6 inches of water in the basement.
Lost pretty much everything, now for the clean-up....yuk!

This new album has helped ease the pain, this young man is fantastic.

 


Listening very loudly with GEL3N and LCD-3


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> I need a couple of hours of music for some insanity.
> 
> Got a call from my wife at work yesterday and with all of the rain we had 6 inches of water in the basement.
> Lost pretty much everything, now for the clean-up....yuk!
> ...



Sorry Joe, hope the clean up goes smoothly.  That is a beautiful rectifier, thought about making an adapter so I can use the German 4V tubes.


----------



## JTori

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, Glenn...I have a nephew who is also acting the same.  It likely WON'T get these young fellows.  But, the cooperation of all is what is needed to keep this from infecting everyone.
> 
> There are a lot of TikTok videos of millennial's making fun of this...saying: "don't worry, it only kills OLD people".
> 
> ...



I think there's some "OK, Boomer" going on.


----------



## Celty

Curious what Glenn owners think about the impact of going with Jupiter coupling capacitors on the OTL, how do these affect the sound?


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> I need a couple of hours of music for some insanity.
> 
> Got a call from my wife at work yesterday and with all of the rain we had 6 inches of water in the basement.
> Lost pretty much everything, now for the clean-up....yuk!
> ...


Really sorry to hear that especially during these dark times. Hopefully the insurance covers the material aspect of this major hassle.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 21, 2020)

Celty said:


> Curious what Glenn owners think about the impact of going with Jupiter coupling capacitors on the OTL, how do these affect the sound?



This probably won't be much help, so I apologize in advance.  I upgraded the caps in my GOTL from the Russian PIO to Jupiter.  BUT, I made some other mods at the same time, which kinds of muddies the water.  At the time, looks like I felt there was more "air and space" with the Jupiters, but admitted it was hard to say given I had changed the plate resistors as well, which oddly enough, altered the sound pretty significantly.

Here is my post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/post-15292223

I don't know WTH I was thinking using 1uF caps, 0.47uF likely would have been plenty, but hindsight is 20/20 after all.  I would say that the Russian caps are quite good, especially if the difference is hard to detect, but if you will remain curious, might as well spring for the Jupiters and know you have some highly regarded coupling caps in the amp.  A cheaper alternative to the Jupiters could be the Miflex KPCU-01 (axial) or KPCU-02 (radial), they are about 1/3 of the cost, assuming Glenn doesn't mind fitting them, they are more chunky.

http://www.soniccraft.com/product_i...uf-600vdc-copper-foil-polypaper-in-oil-p-5291
http://www.soniccraft.com/product_i...uf-600vdc-copper-foil-polypaper-in-oil-p-5312


----------



## JazzVinyl

JTori said:


> I think there's some "OK, Boomer" going on.



Can you elaborate please, on what that means?


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I need a couple of hours of music for some insanity.
> 
> Got a call from my wife at work yesterday and with all of the rain we had 6 inches of water in the basement.
> Lost pretty much everything, now for the clean-up....yuk!
> ...



Ouy, Joe!

Sorry to hear about a mess in the basement!  Always something, as LG said, not fun while we are facing these dark days.

Hope cleanup goes quick and easy.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> I need a couple of hours of music for some insanity.
> 
> Got a call from my wife at work yesterday and with all of the rain we had 6 inches of water in the basement.
> Lost pretty much everything, now for the clean-up....yuk!
> ...



Sorry to here this what a pain cleaning up.  
I see you went back to EL3N tubes for outputs.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Sorry to here this what a pain cleaning up.
> I see you went back to EL3N tubes for outputs.



Thanks for all of the well wishes from everyone. 

Yeah, clean up is a real PITA. 
We have found out that our home owners insurance does not cover this because of no flood insurance...who would ever thought we need this where we live.

We lost the carpet and all of our furniture that we had down there. I lost a lot of music swag and quite a bit of music and many paper collectibles.
Thankfully the furnace , hot water heater, treadmill  dryer, freezer, refridge and pc have survived...not sure about washer.
Thank God my wife caught it when she did...the neighbor had 18 inches!

My back has felt much better since walking on the treadmill, but the heavy lifting of taking the ruined stuff up from basement seemed to have tweaked it a bit.
I have had a heck of a time running from store to store to find bleach.
I guess at least the basement will be clean and smell good.

I put the EL3N tubes back in because I was ready to listen at some loud volume, because of my frustration and these tubes are very easy on the ears and they sound fantastic when cranked up.


----------



## chrisdrop

whirlwind said:


> Thanks for all of the well wishes from everyone.
> 
> Yeah, clean up is a real PITA.
> We have found out that our home owners insurance does not cover this because of no flood insurance...who would ever thought we need this where we live.
> ...


Sorry for the pain. Crank 'em up and be well.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Thanks for all of the well wishes from everyone.
> 
> Yeah, clean up is a real PITA.
> We have found out that our home owners insurance does not cover this because of no flood insurance...who would ever thought we need this where we live.
> ...



We had a similar problem in 2015 and homeowners paid nothing, for the same reason.  So I know that frustration.

Also know back troubles, be careful Joe and don’t overdo it!

Luck with all the challenges you face!

Glad EL3N amp helps with the stress.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Thanks for all of the well wishes from everyone.
> 
> Yeah, clean up is a real PITA.
> We have found out that our home owners insurance does not cover this because of no flood insurance...who would ever thought we need this where we live.
> ...


Sorry to hear about all the troubles - wishing you well and good luck! Re the washer, let it dry out thoroughly, and it will probably come back to life. I am sure you have fans going down there to help everything dry out.


----------



## Monsterzero

Once again i am not getting emails notifying me of new activity in this thread. Its been about one week since I last visited this thread and came on today only to find that the Big Pink Elephant in the room everyone wasnt talking about has finally surfaced.

I told another Glenn owner a couple weeks ago in a PM that I thought the virus was already out of control and we werent being told the truth. In this case I hate being correct.

Due to not being able to drive because of my eyes I have essentially been a shut-in for the last six years. Sadly Long Island doesnt have affordable transportation,so I just stay home all day,every day. Im used to this stuff.

Then yesterday my beloved Angel of Light,Choo Choo was diagnosed with aggressive cancer. She had a seizure in my lap two nights ago so thats how we knew something really bad was happening. My wife and I cried all day long,and I sat upstairs with my Angel and watched as her breathing has rapid but shallow. She couldnt get off of the couch so I wanted to be there with her if the moment came. I stayed up until 5am watching TV with her,and then I was finally able to convince her to come to bed.

Today she seems to be feeling much better. Shes smiling and wagging her tail,and even ate some of my pizza. 

Losing a dog is always difficult,but this dog has saved my life so many times I lost count. When I was ready to give up my thoughts would always go back to Choo Choo and I couldnt stand the thought of leaving her behind.

The vet says we may have days,weeks or perhaps months left with her. Im guessing she has had the cancer for awhile now as lately she has opted to stay alone upstairs ,whereas normally shes in my lap all the time. I had chalked it up to her getting grumpy in her old age,but the truth was much worse.

I dont know why im typing all of this here. I guess its therapy for me. I love my girl more than life itself.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Once again i am not getting emails notifying me of new activity in this thread. Its been about one week since I last visited this thread and came on today only to find that the Big Pink Elephant in the room everyone wasnt talking about has finally surfaced.
> 
> I told another Glenn owner a couple weeks ago in a PM that I thought the virus was already out of control and we werent being told the truth. In this case I hate being correct.
> 
> ...



Hey D - really sorry to hear that man, she looks like a very gentle and loving pup.  No matter what happens, just remember you've given her a very happy life full of love.


----------



## 2359glenn

I am sorry Monster
This is horrible I had a dog die of cancer some years ago.  A dog is one of your children.
We knew she had it probably should have put her down but couldn't do that.
Cared for her until the end one of the worst days of my life.
One of my worries if this virus takes us out who will take care of the dogs after we are gone.


----------



## pippen99

You have might my greatest sympathies.  I lost my Dain March 1.  They are just as much part of your family as any one else and the pain at their departure is felt just as deeply.  Be strong and cherish the time you have left together.


----------



## Monsterzero

pippen99 said:


> You have might my greatest sympathies.  I lost my Dain March 1.  They are just as much part of your family as any one else and the pain at their departure is felt just as deeply.  Be strong and cherish the time you have left together.


Im sorry for your loss Pippen. I was like "Why the hell did he post a pic of a friggin' tree" ? Only when I opened it up did I see your lovely friend.

The problem for me is I prefer the company of my dog over company of humans. This is going to be a tough one for me to overcome.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Once again i am not getting emails notifying me of new activity in this thread. Its been about one week since I last visited this thread and came on today only to find that the Big Pink Elephant in the room everyone wasnt talking about has finally surfaced.
> 
> I told another Glenn owner a couple weeks ago in a PM that I thought the virus was already out of control and we werent being told the truth. In this case I hate being correct.
> 
> ...


Like/dislike if you know what I mean. Stay strong. We have a small community here. I've had two dogs. Always find a good excuse to not have a third, but deep down I know the real reason.


----------



## Celty

Monsterzero said:


> Once again i am not getting emails notifying me of new activity in this thread. Its been about one week since I last visited this thread and came on today only to find that the Big Pink Elephant in the room everyone wasnt talking about has finally surfaced.
> 
> I told another Glenn owner a couple weeks ago in a PM that I thought the virus was already out of control and we werent being told the truth. In this case I hate being correct.
> 
> ...


Very sorry to hear of your trials with being home-bound and your Choo Choo's illness. Life can suck at times, but reaching out as you have here, always seems to help a bit. Hope you are able to find some solace, and hope for better days ahead.


----------



## Celty

pippen99 said:


> You have might my greatest sympathies.  I lost my Dain March 1.  They are just as much part of your family as any one else and the pain at their departure is felt just as deeply.  Be strong and cherish the time you have left together.


And my sincere condolences for losing Dain, as you said, stay strong..


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Once again i am not getting emails notifying me of new activity in this thread. Its been about one week since I last visited this thread and came on today only to find that the Big Pink Elephant in the room everyone wasnt talking about has finally surfaced.
> 
> I told another Glenn owner a couple weeks ago in a PM that I thought the virus was already out of control and we werent being told the truth. In this case I hate being correct.
> 
> ...



Oh man, I am sorry Monster.  I have always been a dog person, too.  This stinks on top of all the other whoa's we have going on right now.

Again, sorry, man!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hope the humans here are staying healthy.  So far, we have not caught it...



Enjoying some new CD's here, thanks to Glenn's GOTL...
Visseaux 6N7G (supposed to be an early 1940's model) pair of KR 6J7's and quad of 6080's.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> This is going to be a tough one for me to overcome.


Sorry to hear buddy!


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Once again i am not getting emails notifying me of new activity in this thread. Its been about one week since I last visited this thread and came on today only to find that the Big Pink Elephant in the room everyone wasnt talking about has finally surfaced.
> 
> I told another Glenn owner a couple weeks ago in a PM that I thought the virus was already out of control and we werent being told the truth. In this case I hate being correct.
> 
> ...



I‘m sorry to hear about your pupper MZ. Dogs have a way of always loving you no matter what. They never judge, are always happy to see you, and just seeing them can melt away the hardest of days. Give her all the love for us here. PM me your address and i’ll send her a few toys and snacks from Amazon.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Sometimes you need to reach out to people.  We're all friends here, and here for you as well as we can be given the distance and separation.

From experience I know that there really are no words when you are about to lose someone you love.  The best advice anybody ever gave to me when I was in this situation was to try as hard you possibly can to focus on all your GOOD memories and all the wonderful moments she has given you all these years, instead of focusing on those times coming to an end soon.  We all have to go sooner or later, but we leave so many good things behind for others and so in that way we can live on.

Stay strong and take care MZ.


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> @Xcalibur255  oh really!  They might be 6B4G, which are a close relative but different than 6A5G.  The 6B4G is an octal base 6A3.  The 6A5G differs from the 6B4G in that it has cathode sleeves, so it is indirectly heated, and the heaters are center-tapped and referenced to ground through the cathode.  It is actually a really interesting tube!  #1 you don't have to worry about hum or DC on the filaments since it is indirectly heated, and #2 you don't have to center tap your heater winding to cancel hum since it is built into the tube.  The creation of the 6A5G was an attempt to reduce the noise of the 6B4G, but create a tube that was interchangeable with circuits built for it.  So you get many of the benefits of a DHT without the tricky parts.
> 
> I could use 6B4G in this amp, but there will be some AC hum, maybe not a big deal listening on speakers though.  Interestingly with the Visseaux 6A5G I have, I am beginning to think the internals are actually more similar to 6B4G.  Difficult to see, but they may not have cathode sleeves and there is an audible hum when listening.  It really isn't a major bother though and I doubt it could be heard when listening on speakers.  I would be happy to have them if they turn up  thank you.


You're right I think they were 6B4G.  I couldn't remember.  You probably would have no use for them in that case.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> You're right I think they were 6B4G.  I couldn't remember.  You probably would have no use for them in that case.



Maybe you can rejuvenate your project?


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Im sorry for your loss Pippen. I was like "Why the hell did he post a pic of a friggin' tree" ? Only when I opened it up did I see your lovely friend.
> 
> The problem for me is I prefer the company of my dog over company of humans. This is going to be a tough one for me to overcome.



Please accept my deepest condolences.  I lost one of my dogs a couple weeks ago...


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Maybe you can rejuvenate your project?


Nah, until recently I had forgotten all about it.  I wish I could get back the money I wasted on the whole thing, just bad judgement on my part.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Once again i am not getting emails notifying me of new activity in this thread. Its been about one week since I last visited this thread and came on today only to find that the Big Pink Elephant in the room everyone wasnt talking about has finally surfaced.
> 
> I told another Glenn owner a couple weeks ago in a PM that I thought the virus was already out of control and we werent being told the truth. In this case I hate being correct.
> 
> ...




Sorry to hear the bad news about your dog Monster.
We lost our dog a couple of years ago now and we cried our eyes out for a couple of days.
She was just a mut from the pound, but I would have paid thousands of dollars if I thought I could have saved her.
She followed me around like my shadow.
I will be thinking of you....take care.




I will work to day, then Ohio is pretty much shut down except for the essentials until April 6th.
Stay safe everyone.


----------



## chrisdrop

Monsterzero said:


> Once again i am not getting emails notifying me of new activity in this thread. Its been about one week since I last visited this thread and came on today only to find that the Big Pink Elephant in the room everyone wasnt talking about has finally surfaced.
> 
> I told another Glenn owner a couple weeks ago in a PM that I thought the virus was already out of control and we werent being told the truth. In this case I hate being correct.
> 
> ...


Choo Choo is _beautiful_. Who wouldn't love that face?! I am sorry to hear that she is ill and that you are suffering. No words will do, but our thoughts are with you.


----------



## felix3650

Man, it's always sad when you loose a part of your family...I've never had a dog/cat (I've always wanted one though..) because our appartment doesn't have the space for an animal as big as a dog. Max we've had was a hamster. My aunt on the other hand always had dogs in her bigger house and growing for the most part of my adolescence there, I've always considered them as mine too. Seeing each one come and go really leaves a mark on you that you never forget...I remember each one of them as if it were yesterday...The time spent with our family members (our fury little ones) is one of the most precious treasures this life experience gives us.
Keep your hearts big and strong during these difficult times my friends...It's our only way out!


----------



## gibosi

If someone is looking for a good read:

Saga of Marconi-Osram Valve: A History of Valve-making

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153874384241


----------



## mordy

Difficult times on many levels.... Because of my age and my wife's age we have been told to stay away from people and not to go out of the house. It seems counter intuitive not to be able to see your children and grandchildren, but as has been said many times, young and healthy people may have the Corona virus and not even be aware of it, but they can transmit it to others. And elderly people are at a substantially increased risk of being severely harmed by the virus or worse....
I try to keep myself busy and productive and have a positive attitude - have no idea how long we have to hunker down. One day at a time.

Here is a question to divert your attention from everything that is going on:
Why is it that most high end headphones are corded? Are there inherent limitations in wireless headphones?


----------



## chrisdrop

Firstly, be well. This too will pass, if not that quickly.



mordy said:


> Why is it that most high end headphones are corded? Are there inherent limitations in wireless headphones?


Bluetooth quality has long been lesser. I know Hifiman came out with a bluetooth headphone this year.

Is it not that you would need a DAC (amp too?) in the headphones to do this? If you are sending bytes over a bluetooth, for example, you will have to D/A convert them. Don't think you can send analogue audio over the air?


----------



## felix3650

Nope, can't send analogue signal over the ether and expect it with the same quality presented with wires...FM (and AM before it) did this with modulation but as you well know it's very prone to noise and limited bandwidth. Not considering the circuitry distortion introduced on the receiving end. And last, you wouldn't be able to enjoy tube amps (it wouldn't be pure tube sound anymore) which in my opinion (and 99% of this thread) is a big NO lol


----------



## Monsterzero

I appreciate all the support guys. This is so hard to see her basically just lay on the couch and look tired all day,when typically she is always smiling and full of energy.
In case anyone is interested Choo Choo and I journey together began many years ago in Argentina. It has been documented and updated over the years on this Buenos Aires expat forum.

https://baexpats.org/threads/really-nice-dog-needs-good-home.7203/


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> Is it not that you would need a DAC (amp too?) in the headphones to do this?


Yup!

I have auditioned wireless headphones over the years, and up until recently - they were all crap. Definitely OK for podcasts, but unacceptable (by audiophiles) for music.
Having said that, technology and headphone manufacturers are finally catching up.
I thought the Anana-BT by HiFiMAN were absolutely great. Keeping an eye on 1 of those big HiFiMAN price drops / sales... when that happens - I will get one! 
I have also joined the Drop campaign for the Panda. I auditioned an early prototype, and was impressed. 

So, @mordy - some good options are becoming available! Are you interested in open or closed back? If open - I highly recommend the Anada-BT.

One important caveat:
To get *good* quality audio, you need a source (and headphones) that support LDAC or AptX.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Yup!
> 
> I have auditioned wireless headphones over the years, and up until recently - they were all crap. Definitely OK for podcasts, but unacceptable (by audiophiles) for music.
> Having said that, technology and headphone manufacturers are finally catching up.
> ...


----------



## whirlwind

I may have to check these out...just looking for something for the smart tv that would sound as good as possible....


----------



## Velozity (Mar 24, 2020)

gibosi said:


> If someone is looking for a good read:
> 
> Saga of Marconi-Osram Valve: A History of Valve-making
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/153874384241




I have one of these in paperback that is signed by the author.  My wife got it for me for my birthday.  This is a great price especially for a hardcover version.  I should get it for my library...


----------



## chrisdrop (Mar 24, 2020)

.. I can't convince myself to roll any tubes. I can't face the hours it will take breaking in some new metal GE 6C5s and replacing the L63s. No desire to swap outputs!!

I guess I'll have to just listen!

To honour the pets; Mae says hi.



Be well everyone. I think there is a lot of listening time ahead...


----------



## mordy

I don’t like the time it takes to burn in new tubes either. Have been thinking of setting up something to let the tubes burn in - maybe an adapter hooked up to a power supply.
Does anybody have ideas?
I know of a fellow Headfier that routinely burns in his tubes for three days outside of his amp to avoid any nasty surprises.


----------



## mordy

If anybody is interested in the classic Sennheiser HD-250 headphone, there is a set for sale on eBay for possibly a low price: (look at the bottom of the list for a set starting at $50 + $15 shipping - no bids so far): https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...RS2&_nkw=sennheiser+hd250+headphones&_sacat=0


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 24, 2020)

mordy said:


> If anybody is interested in the classic Sennheiser HD-250 headphone, there is a set for sale on eBay for possibly a low price: (look at the bottom of the list for a set starting at $50 + $15 shipping - no bids so far): https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...RS2&_nkw=sennheiser+hd250+headphones&_sacat=0


Ive had a few comments left on my YouTube channel that state that the Linear l is preferred over the Linear ll. IIRC the mids on the one are better and the ll is more bass/treble centric. I havent heard the ll,so I can neither confirm nor deny.

Ive also typed with a few owners that their particular pair are rather harsh sounding and not at all sounding the way Ive described them. Another owner messaged me with some measurements showing his pair had no bass. So it seems like the HD250 can be hit or miss depending upon the individual headphone itself,but for $50.00 it might be worth it.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Ive had a few comments left on my YouTube channel that state that the Linear l is preferred over the Linear ll. IIRC the mids on the one are better and the ll is more bass/treble centric. I havent heard the ll,so I can neither confirm nor deny.
> 
> Ive also typed with a few owners that their particular pair are rather harsh sounding and not at all sounding the way Ive described them. Another owner messaged me with some measurements showing his pair had no bass. So it seems like the HD250 can be hit or miss depending upon the individual headphone itself,but for $50.00 it might be worth it.


I only have experience with the LinearII. The bass is great and I enjoy it very much.
As always, YMMV.....
PS: It took quite some time to break it in.


----------



## mordy

Somebody bought the Sennheiser HD250 for the minimum bid. Curious to know if somebody here bought them and their impression of these headphones.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 25, 2020)

Well gentlemen, the time has come to say goodbye, I am selling my Glenn OTL.

I am announcing it here first for those that follow the thread, not sure what the interest will be given the current state of affairs.  Before you read on, note that this is for contintental USA only and will ship by UPS ground.  The tubes will likely be shipped in a separate package.  As of right now, mail services are still up and running, so I don't expect there to be an issue.  Unfortunately, I cannot go out and get the shipping materials, so I will be using UPS "pack and ship" services.  The amp will be well-protected before they pack it further, but it will be expensive, the price includes shipping and fees.  If it is still available by Saturday, I'll list it in the classifieds.  I spent a lot of time, money (upwards of $600-700), and effort making upgrades/modifications to this amp, the price reflects that.  It is $2000, all shipping and fees included.  This is what I paid for the amp, before the upgrades.

Changes I have made:
- driver tube plate resistors changed to Kiwame carbon film
- driver stage coupling capacitors changed to Jupiter copper foil 1uF
- XLR inputs changed to WBT - 0210Cu Ms RCA inputs, which included replacing the rear panel
- Alps pot upgraded to Goldpoint V47 stereo
- simple rectifier/capacitor + dropping resistor for DC on the heaters
- C3g/pentode sockets replaced with 6J5/12J5 sockets
- all sockets replaced with Japanese QQQ phenolic octal sockets

In terms of the original features, it is HEXFRED rectified, includes the 6/12/25V switch on the rear panel (which also affects the 6J5 sockets for use of 12J5 tubes) and Lundahl transformer.  There is no "5998 switch".

   

I am including a tube starter pack, here it is:

Power:
2x Toshiba 6080
2x Svetlana 6H13C
8x Sylvania T-plate 6BL7GT (only one pictured, all NOS)

Driver:
2x National Union 12J5GT
1x Brimar 13D2 (25V equivalent to Brimar 13D1)
1x RCA 1633 (25V equivalent to RCA 6SN7GT)
1x Ken-Rad 1633 (25V equivalent to Ken-Rad 6SN7GT)



If you are interested, shoot me a PM.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well gentlemen, the time has come to say goodbye, I am selling my Glenn OTL.
> 
> I am announcing it here first for those that follow the thread, not sure what the interest will be given the current state of affairs.  Before you read on, note that this is for contintental USA only and will ship by UPS ground.  The tubes will likely be shipped in a separate package.  As of right now, mail services are still up and running, so I don't expect there to be an issue.  Unfortunately, I cannot go out and get the shipping materials, so I will be using UPS "pack and ship" services.  The amp will be well-protected before they pack it further, but it will be expensive, the price includes shipping and fees.  If it is still available by Saturday, I'll list it in the classifieds.  I spent a lot of time, money (upwards of $600-700), and effort making upgrades/modifications to this amp, the price reflects that.  It is $2000, all shipping and fees included.  This is what I paid for the amp, before the upgrades.
> 
> ...




Great deal for someone not wanting to wait in line!


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well gentlemen, the time has come to say goodbye, I am selling my Glenn OTL.
> 
> I am announcing it here first for those that follow the thread, not sure what the interest will be given the current state of affairs.  Before you read on, note that this is for contintental USA only and will ship by UPS ground.  The tubes will likely be shipped in a separate package.  As of right now, mail services are still up and running, so I don't expect there to be an issue.  Unfortunately, I cannot go out and get the shipping materials, so I will be using UPS "pack and ship" services.  The amp will be well-protected before they pack it further, but it will be expensive, the price includes shipping and fees.  If it is still available by Saturday, I'll list it in the classifieds.  I spent a lot of time, money (upwards of $600-700), and effort making upgrades/modifications to this amp, the price reflects that.  It is $2000, all shipping and fees included.  This is what I paid for the amp, before the upgrades.
> 
> ...



1_ You must be loving your new amp, and having been bitten by the "I'll make my own" bug, I am sure you will keep on that track.
2_ Following from 1, I imagine you have more amp projects coming...
3_ You have been a great community member here. I hope THAT part does not fade.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well gentlemen, the time has come to say goodbye, I am selling my Glenn OTL.
> 
> I am announcing it here first for those that follow the thread, not sure what the interest will be given the current state of affairs.  Before you read on, note that this is for contintental USA only and will ship by UPS ground.  The tubes will likely be shipped in a separate package.  As of right now, mail services are still up and running, so I don't expect there to be an issue.  Unfortunately, I cannot go out and get the shipping materials, so I will be using UPS "pack and ship" services.  The amp will be well-protected before they pack it further, but it will be expensive, the price includes shipping and fees.  If it is still available by Saturday, I'll list it in the classifieds.  I spent a lot of time, money (upwards of $600-700), and effort making upgrades/modifications to this amp, the price reflects that.  It is $2000, all shipping and fees included.  This is what I paid for the amp, before the upgrades.
> 
> ...


Wishing you good luck in selling the GOTL (should be easy) but I hope when you said goodbye you only meant the amp and not the thread - always enjoying reading about your projects and insights......


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 25, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> 1_ You must be loving your new amp, and having been bitten by the "I'll make my own" bug, I am sure you will keep on that track.
> 2_ Following from 1, I imagine you have more amp projects coming...
> 3_ You have been a great community member here. I hope THAT part does not fade.





mordy said:


> Wishing you good luck in selling the GOTL (should be easy) but I hope when you said goodbye you only meant the amp and not the thread - always enjoying reading about your projects and insights......



I certainly hope it is okay for me to hang around and keep talking tubes!  I need a 2359glenn emeritus member card.

Yes, while it isn't perfect, I am very taken with my new amp, but the GOTL is fantastic as well.  Its flexibility created a platform to do much of the learning that was necessary for me to build my own amplifiers, so I owe a lot to Glenn and his amp for making that possible.  I definitely have the builder's bug, and a second amp is in the oven.  But my house is too small for a whole bunch of amplifiers!  Will be hard to keep that from happening anyway...my life will already be in danger from my significant other, I just can't keep them all.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I certainly hope it is okay for me to hang around and keep talking tubes!  I need a 2359glenn emeritus member card.
> 
> Yes, while it isn't perfect, I am very taken with my new amp, but the GOTL is fantastic as well.  Its flexibility created a platform to do much of the learning that was necessary for me to build my own amplifiers, so I owe a lot to Glenn and his amp for making that possible.  I definitely have the builder's bug, and a second amp is in the oven.  But my house is too small for a whole bunch of amplifiers!  Will be hard to keep that from happening anyway...my life will already be in danger from my significant other, I just can't keep them all.



I have a shed full of amps in various states some I repurposed the transformers in a new amp.
But have many that are functional but don't use them anymore.  Can't keep them all in the house sort of why I started selling amps.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 25, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> I have a shed full of amps in various states some I repurposed the transformers in a new amp.
> But have many that are functional but don't use them anymore.  Can't keep them all in the house sort of why I started selling amps.



Time for a "Glenn's shed" flash sale?  Yeah going to be interesting to see what I do once the 45 amp is done.  The logical thing would be to stop there, but I just don't know if I'll be able to.  Going to have a drawer full of rare OTL power tubes and some NOS EL34 burning giant holes in my pocket...an OTL and/or a class A PP could be next, but I gotta take a break for a while.  It's just so damn fun!

At some point I am gonna mess around with the EL34 in the 6A5 amp just to see if I like the sound.  Easy reversible wiring change, strap it as a triode and will parallel a resistor on the cathode to get a reasonable bias point.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Once the 45 is done then you'll be ready to go even deeper into the rabbit hole.  I vote for building something around the 10/801A.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Xcalibur255 said:


> Once the 45 is done then you'll be ready to go even deeper into the rabbit hole.  I vote for building something around the 10/801A.



Me working on my 801a amplifier


----------



## A2029

Tjj226 Angel said:


> Me working on my 801a amplifier



It's when I hear of DIY builders using 833A tubes at 2000-4000 volts for a single ended amp that I shudder... The highest I'm ever willing to go is 1KV...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

A2029 said:


> It's when I hear of DIY builders using 833A tubes at 2000-4000 volts for a single ended amp that I shudder... The highest I'm ever willing to go is 1KV...



If your tube amplifier can't kill you, what's the point?  This one does look pretty sweet though


----------



## Monsterzero

Fantastic music for troubling times.


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well gentlemen, the time has come to say goodbye, I am selling my Glenn OTL.
> 
> I am announcing it here first for those that follow the thread, not sure what the interest will be given the current state of affairs.  Before you read on, note that this is for contintental USA only and will ship by UPS ground.  The tubes will likely be shipped in a separate package.  As of right now, mail services are still up and running, so I don't expect there to be an issue.  Unfortunately, I cannot go out and get the shipping materials, so I will be using UPS "pack and ship" services.  The amp will be well-protected before they pack it further, but it will be expensive, the price includes shipping and fees.  If it is still available by Saturday, I'll list it in the classifieds.  I spent a lot of time, money (upwards of $600-700), and effort making upgrades/modifications to this amp, the price reflects that.  It is $2000, all shipping and fees included.  This is what I paid for the amp, before the upgrades.
> 
> ...



Good Luck with the sale, LG!  It's a beauty of an amp!

And agree with the others, hope you will stick around, your a participation is always appreciated!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Fantastic music for troubling times.




Love his song, called 'Somewhere Down The Crazy River":




.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

A2029 said:


> It's when I hear of DIY builders using 833A tubes at 2000-4000 volts for a single ended amp that I shudder... The highest I'm ever willing to go is 1KV...



Im more or less in agreement but for other reasons. IMO amps like those just make too many compromises. I prefer to use 2 stage amps. Im also not sold on the idea of having a tube red plating during its normal operation. That just seems like a bad idea for hifi to me, but its just speculation on my part.


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## maxpudding

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well gentlemen, the time has come to say goodbye, I am selling my Glenn OTL.
> 
> I am announcing it here first for those that follow the thread, not sure what the interest will be given the current state of affairs.  Before you read on, note that this is for contintental USA only and will ship by UPS ground.  The tubes will likely be shipped in a separate package.  As of right now, mail services are still up and running, so I don't expect there to be an issue.  Unfortunately, I cannot go out and get the shipping materials, so I will be using UPS "pack and ship" services.  The amp will be well-protected before they pack it further, but it will be expensive, the price includes shipping and fees.  If it is still available by Saturday, I'll list it in the classifieds.  I spent a lot of time, money (upwards of $600-700), and effort making upgrades/modifications to this amp, the price reflects that.  It is $2000, all shipping and fees included.  This is what I paid for the amp, before the upgrades.
> 
> ...



I know it will serve the new owner well. Good luck, hope it'll find a new home soon!


----------



## chrisdrop

Well, around 1/2 day after my last "no will to roll" post, I decided to brave new tubes. I popped these GE 6C5s in:



If I have understood the date codes correctly, these GE 6C5s made in the mid-80s! Tubes made after I was born - wow!
These are the 1st metal case 6*5 tubes that have been working for me. I only had some newer RCA metal cases that I didn't really love. After just a few hours, these started to sound ... pretty bloody lovely. _Really pleasant mids_ especially.
I think they were ~10 GBP.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

L0rdGwyn said:


> If your tube amplifier can't kill you, what's the point?  This one does look pretty sweet though


Which amp is this one.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Well, around 1/2 day after my last "no will to roll" post, I decided to brave new tubes. I popped these GE 6C5s in:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The date code seems to be 79-30 which means the 30th week (July) of 1979. Perhaps these tubes were made earlier and this is a shipping date - don't know.
As good as the metal 6J5 and 6C5 tubes sound, IMHO the metal 6J7 tubes sound even better. The 6J7 is a pentode that needs special adapters to be used as triodes.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> I certainly hope it is okay for me to hang around and keep talking tubes!  I need a 2359glenn emeritus member card.
> 
> Yes, while it isn't perfect, I am very taken with my new amp, but the GOTL is fantastic as well.  Its flexibility created a platform to do much of the learning that was necessary for me to build my own amplifiers, so I owe a lot to Glenn and his amp for making that possible.  I definitely have the builder's bug, and a second amp is in the oven.  But my house is too small for a whole bunch of amplifiers!  Will be hard to keep that from happening anyway...my life will already be in danger from my significant other, I just can't keep them all.


I also own Glenn a lot. Even though Glenn didn't have the time to build my OTL amp, I did "borrow" a lot of the features from the GOTL with my custom amp.


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> The date code seems to be 79-30 which means the 30th week (July) of 1979. Perhaps these tubes were made earlier and this is a shipping date - don't know.
> As good as the metal 6J5 and 6C5 tubes sound, IMHO the metal 6J7 tubes sound even better. The 6J7 is a pentode that needs special adapters to be used as triodes.



I was looking at the tube on the left: NB 188-5 according to here; I was taking "NB" as  "October 1983",  "188" being GE code, and  "5" being their main plant identifier.



> "Starting in mid 1964, General Electric switched from a “year-month” to a two-letter “month/year” code for warranty fulfillment. These two-letter codes were used until the end of manufacture in about 1985. The latest code I've ever seen is "KG".



Despite this quote, it looks like the tube on the right uses the date convention you mention..

Here is a copy of the table used for GE dates in the ref'd article.






... and I do need ring Deyan to see about 6J7 adapters


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 26, 2020)

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Which amp is this one.



That is some random 833A amp I found on the internet, those tubes take 3-4kV on the plates, keep your fingers and toes away!


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> That is some random 833A amp I found on the internet, those tubes take 3-4kV in the plates, keep your fingers and toes away!



Far, far away and when you think you are far enough away.....go away a little bit more


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> That is some random 833A amp I found on the internet, those tubes take 3-4kV on the plates, keep your fingers and toes away!


Here is another search tool: You can click on any picture and get the URL. After that you can paste it into Google Images and it will search for the picture. 
This it what I found: https://www.flickr.com/photos/92493660@N05/43912518765
It appears to be a photo taken by a Russian photographer (based on the name). Possibly you could contact him and ask about the origin of the amp.


----------



## Velozity

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well gentlemen, the time has come to say goodbye, I am selling my Glenn OTL.
> 
> I am announcing it here first for those that follow the thread, not sure what the interest will be given the current state of affairs.  Before you read on, note that this is for contintental USA only and will ship by UPS ground.  The tubes will likely be shipped in a separate package.  As of right now, mail services are still up and running, so I don't expect there to be an issue.  Unfortunately, I cannot go out and get the shipping materials, so I will be using UPS "pack and ship" services.  The amp will be well-protected before they pack it further, but it will be expensive, the price includes shipping and fees.  If it is still available by Saturday, I'll list it in the classifieds.  I spent a lot of time, money (upwards of $600-700), and effort making upgrades/modifications to this amp, the price reflects that.  It is $2000, all shipping and fees included.  This is what I paid for the amp, before the upgrades.
> 
> ...





Dammit Keenan, you're killing me man.  I need a new refrigerator, not your amp....NOT YOUR AMP!!!    

_**woosah, woosah, woosah...**_


----------



## chrisdrop

Velozity said:


> Dammit Keenan, you're killing me man.  I need a new refrigerator, not your amp....NOT YOUR AMP!!!
> 
> _**woosah, woosah, woosah...**_


... now, if you can't hoarde too much food right about now, who needs a new refrigerator ?? .. just sayin'.


----------



## A2029

The 833A tube really only gets used in some ridiculous tube amps that have a huge number of compromises as Tjj226 mentioned. Here is one of those ridiculous beasts: https://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/704wavac/index.html

Personally I would prefer buying a house for the price of that amp!


----------



## leftside

Velozity said:


> Dammit Keenan, you're killing me man.  I need a new refrigerator, not your amp....NOT YOUR AMP!!!
> 
> _**woosah, woosah, woosah...**_


Buy the amp. This amp won't be around for long. No problem finding a fridge. Get a used fridge for cheap for now?


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

If yall are impressed by a 833a amp, god only knows what you are gonna say about a GM100 amp.


----------



## mordy

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_gm-100.html
Not sure if this is it because it says transmitting triode 17V 18A. If it is a triode, maybe you would need four?


----------



## mordy

The Otello amp. Maybe made of gold since it is 600.000.00  in some kind of currency.


----------



## mordy

This is the most you can spend on a tube amp on an eBay budget - $120.000.00 for the pair:


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 26, 2020)

Well @Xcalibur255 , I bought more 45 tubes, sort of by accident 

I threw a minimum bid at this auction thinking I likely wouldn't win.  Well I did, so I have five more NOS 45s.  They are labeled Tung-Sol but I suspect they are rebrands...Sylvania perhaps?  Haven't done the leg work to find out what make yet since I am at work.  $30 a tube though seemed pretty good to me, hopefully a good buy.  I’m all done until this amp is built.  Needed some extras in case one craps out on me.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/174225242096

Edit: I am now quite certain they are Sylvanias given the top mica and plate construction.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Tjj226 Angel said:


> If yall are impressed by a 833a amp, god only knows what you are gonna say about a GM100 amp.


& this


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> & this


https://www.nataudio.com/products/vacuum-tube-power-amplifiers/item/26-magma.html


----------



## mordy

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> https://www.nataudio.com/products/vacuum-tube-power-amplifiers/item/26-magma.html


Curious what a pair of these amps cost - forget it; I couldn’t lift two 100lb amps.....


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Curious what a pair of these amps cost - forget it; I couldn’t lift two 100lb amps.....


mordy, you only got to lift one at a time...


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

mordy said:


> Curious what a pair of these amps cost - forget it; I couldn’t lift two 100lb amps.....


The are the biggest DHT power amps (claimed as per the below review)

Cost wise I even didn't bother to look..... for obvious reasons.... hee hee. I am happy with my Rega Brio so far.....


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well @Xcalibur255 , I bought more 45 tubes, sort of by accident
> 
> I threw a minimum bid at this auction thinking I likely wouldn't win.  Well I did, so I have five more NOS 45s.  They are labeled Tung-Sol but I suspect they are rebrands...Sylvania perhaps?  Haven't done the leg work to find out what make yet since I am at work.  $30 a tube though seemed pretty good to me, hopefully a good buy.  I’m all done until this amp is built.  Needed some extras in case one craps out on me.
> 
> ...



You're right, all 5 are Sylvania made.  It's good they all match, lots of sellers will mix brands in lots like these.

They look like late production, probably in the neighborhood of 1950.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> mordy, you only got to lift one at a time...


Don't think I can lift 100lbs any more....When I go to Costco to get a 6 gallon box of water (pre C-19 days - they are all sold out of water now) I couldn't lift that box any more, and I have to open it and take out each gallon bottle individually. Getting old is not for sissies.....


----------



## A2029 (Mar 27, 2020)

mordy said:


> Don't think I can lift 100lbs any more....When I go to Costco to get a 6 gallon box of water (pre C-19 days - they are all sold out of water now) I couldn't lift that box any more, and I have to open it and take out each gallon bottle individually. Getting old is not for sissies.....



You just need to get yourself one of these: https://newatlas.com/sarcos-robotics-guardian-xo-exoskeleton/57847/






P.S. Probably also good for fighting off the crowds trying to steal your toilet paper. If you need the upgraded model, can always get one of these:


----------



## mordy

I first thought that it is a real robot that will do the work for you, but no. It is basically a powered suit that you jump (?) into, and it will augment your feeble muscles. No cost announced, but leasing costs should amount to around $25/hour. Mainly for use in factories assembling heavy pieces I assume.
I could probably tip somebody for less to carry the non-existent boxes of water to my car lol.
Here is a video to show how this technology is applied today:


----------



## 2359glenn

Well North Carolina is locked down on Monday at 6:00pm.
Not sure if I have to continue going to work.  The owner is trying to say we are essential but we cant ship most
things as the customers are closed.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Well North Carolina is locked down on Monday at 6:00pm.
> Not sure if I have to continue going to work.  The owner is trying to say we are essential but we cant ship most
> things as the customers are closed.



Your state government determines who is "essential" and who is not.  If they try to keep it up and running when the state has not deemed the company "essential", _someone _should blow the whistle...


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Well North Carolina is locked down on Monday at 6:00pm.
> Not sure if I have to continue going to work.  The owner is trying to say we are essential but we cant ship most
> things as the customers are closed.



We have been locked down since Tuesday


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 28, 2020)

whirlwind said:


> We have been locked down since Tuesday



It is working to some extent, while the number of cases is still going up, the daily increase in the number of cases is going down.  Good news for me!  Things are starting to get crazy at work...it probably goes without saying, but these patients are very sick, even by ICU standards.  Heed the warnings and be very careful!


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 28, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> It is working to some extent, while the number of cases is still going up, the daily increase in the number of cases is going down.  Good news for me!  Things are starting to get crazy at work...it probably goes without saying, but these patients are very sick, even by ICU standards.  Heed the warnings and be very careful!



Absolutely, I  have ulcerative colitis which means my immune system sort of works against itself....so I am home in my bubble being safe.
I am hoping after two weeks we see some positive, I think we will but it may even take longer to help matters to a greater extent.
This is a good place for me to be   




Stay safe everybody.


----------



## maxpudding

Stay safe everyone! We have been on partial lockdown since the 18th, it was supposed to end by this month, but it was extended to 14th April because the numbers aren't going down as hoped and a lot of morons still aren't staying in their homes. Stricter measures have been put in place, but I suspect they'll extend the lockdown till May.


----------



## whirlwind

Wonder how many people in the thread are on partial lock down at the moment.

This is a nasty virus!


----------



## leftside

It's a good time to catch up with folks you haven't chatted to in a while. Facebook chat, Skype, MS Teams, etc. There's been a couple of evenings where some of us have grabbed a whisky and had a group chat.


----------



## chrisdrop (Mar 28, 2020)

I have been self-isolating since 17th March with my family of 4 here in London. I was _quite ill_ for ~9d (complicated by being diabetic). I didn't have all Covid symptoms, but I was quite out of it; not even listening to music! The "total loss of smell and taste" is an odd symptom that we certainly had. Thank goodness for my wife. She took great care of me.

London is certainly locked-down, but my neighbourhood is quiet and supplies are attainable. I have 2 teenaged boys and their schools have been great (all online etc). They are in heaven; computer time anyone? I felt well enough this past week and started working (from home) again on Wednesday. I am quite thankful that we have he sort of company where working remotely is 100% fine. I am thankful to be well. The NHS in this country has had an AMAZING outpouring of support and care. It has been really a thing to behold. As crap as it all is, it reminds you how much there is to be thankful for and how people coming together is beautiful.

On another note, I have asked Deyan to start working on those 6J7 adapters as per the tube-trend of the moment...

I am REALLY digging my cheap GE 6C5s still  Get some.

You guys always provide happy company. Thanks.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Wonder how many people in the thread are on partial lock down at the moment.
> 
> This is a nasty virus!



I'm living in the Great State of Ohio under partial lockdown as well. Took a few pictures this morning to help pass the time.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Absolutely, I  have ulcerative colitis which means my immune system sort of works against itself....so I am home in my bubble being safe.
> I am hoping after two weeks we see some positive, I think we will but it may even take longer to help matters to a greater extent.
> This is a good place for me to be
> 
> ...



There are definitely worse places to be isolated!  You have a great setup, Joe.


----------



## audiofest2018

2359glenn said:


> Well North Carolina is locked down on Monday at 6:00pm.
> Not sure if I have to continue going to work.  The owner is trying to say we are essential but we cant ship most
> things as the customers are closed.


@2359glenn  If you are interested you can take a look at the NC governor's executive order below.  It details what we can and can't do.
https://files.nc.gov/governor/documents/files/EO121-Stay-at-Home-Order-3.pdf

I live in NC just outside of Charlotte.  Having been WFH for the past two weeks now... Look like there will be at least one more month for us live in NC....


----------



## Celty

"Kansas Gov. Laura Kelly imposed a statewide stay at home order Saturday in an effort to slow the spread of the new coronavirus... Kansas has reported more than 200 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in 31 counties. At least four people in the state have died from the virus. Kansas is projected to have about 900 positive coronavirus cases by the end of the week, Kelly said."

So yeah, We joined your ranks of statewide stay at home states.

I have been occupying myself a bit with finally auditioning the Eikon pads on my Auteur, as well as the Hart Audio Cables I got this week.


----------



## DecentLevi (Mar 28, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> Well North Carolina is locked down on Monday at 6:00pm.
> Not sure if I have to continue going to work.  The owner is trying to say we are essential but we cant ship most
> things as the customers are closed.


I'm in Seattle, basically ground 0 in THE US for the virus, imported thanks to the Real Sick Man of Asia (care for communism, anyone?). I'll still be working through all of it due to being in one of the essential industries, which could turn into either a curse or a blessing depending on if I stay healthy. I guess it could be the same for you Glenn if you get time off - hopefully more of a blessing since I'm sure you have much needed time for life... not to mention building more amps too.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

The GOTL is sold.  I'm sure the buyer will swing by to say hello.  Now I gotta figure out what I'm gonna do with all these rare OTL tubes...


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> The GOTL is sold.  I'm sure the buyer will swing by to say hello.  Now I gotta figure out what I'm gonna do with all these rare OTL tubes...



What tubes is that?


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> The GOTL is sold.  I'm sure the buyer will swing by to say hello.  Now I gotta figure out what I'm gonna do with all these rare OTL tubes...


GOTL is CV proof!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> What tubes is that?



I don't know if I want to sell them Glenn!  What if I need them for an amp in the future?  It is kind of a lot of tubes though...gotta think about it.

Bendix 6080WB
Cetron 6336B
Fivre 6BX7GT
GEC 6080WB
GEC 6AS7G
Nippon Electric 6520
Nippon Electric 6AS7G
RCA 6BX7GT
Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plate
Toshiba 6BX7GT
Tung-Sol 5998
Tung-Sol 6BX7GT
Tung-Sol 7802
Western Electric 421A


----------



## Celty

L0rdGwyn said:


> The GOTL is sold.  I'm sure the buyer will swing by to say hello.  Now I gotta figure out what I'm gonna do with all these rare OTL tubes...


Congrats! Thought it would go quickly


----------



## Karnicopia (Mar 28, 2020)

I ended up buying L0rdGwyn's amp and I'm really excited to learn more about tubes. I've been into speakers for a while and started getting into headphones and I went with a ZMF Verite open and was listening to them out of my receiver for a while then picked up a RME ADI Pro because I also do some recording so I can use the A/D conversion and I've been happy with that but I really wanted to get into tubes and didn't think I could do the wait for one of these so this seemed like a really great amp at the right time. I spent a lot of time looking at my account but I really liked that it was an amazing amp to start with and then upgraded by someone that is going on to build their own amps I just think that is pretty cool and since I haven't been going out much I just went for it. Really excited to learn more and read through as much of this thread as I can!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Karnicopia said:


> I ended up buying L0rdGwyn's amp and I'm really excited to learn more about tubes. I've been into speakers for a while and started getting into headphones and I went with a ZMF Verite open and was listening to them out of my receiver for a while then picked up a RME ADI Pro because I also do some recording so I can use the A/D conversion and I've been happy with that but I really wanted to get into tubes and didn't think I could do the wait for one of these so this seemed like a really great amp at the right time. I spent a lot of time looking at my account but I really liked that it was an amazing amp to start with and then upgraded by someone that is going on to build their own amps I just think that is pretty cool and since I haven't been going out much I just went for it. Really excited to learn more and read through as much of this thread as I can!



I think you will be very happy with it, and it pairs well with the Verite Open  I will have to do my goodbye listening tomorrow.


----------



## mordy

Karnicopia said:


> I ended up buying L0rdGwyn's amp and I'm really excited to learn more about tubes. I've been into speakers for a while and started getting into headphones and I went with a ZMF Verite open and was listening to them out of my receiver for a while then picked up a RME ADI Pro because I also do some recording so I can use the A/D conversion and I've been happy with that but I really wanted to get into tubes and didn't think I could do the wait for one of these so this seemed like a really great amp at the right time. I spent a lot of time looking at my account but I really liked that it was an amazing amp to start with and then upgraded by someone that is going on to build their own amps I just think that is pretty cool and since I haven't been going out much I just went for it. Really excited to learn more and read through as much of this thread as I can!


Congrats to the new amp!
I am sure that you will have questions on using the amp and the very friendly and extremely knowledgeable members on this forum will be able to help you out.
I am using my GOTL mainly as a preamp for speakers (and headphones as well) and I have derived countless hours of pleasure listening to this great and versatile amp!


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Well North Carolina is locked down on Monday at 6:00pm.
> Not sure if I have to continue going to work.  The owner is trying to say we are essential but we cant ship most
> things as the customers are closed.




So, do you have to work or you in the stay home mode ?


----------



## maxpudding

Karnicopia said:


> I ended up buying L0rdGwyn's amp and I'm really excited to learn more about tubes. I've been into speakers for a while and started getting into headphones and I went with a ZMF Verite open and was listening to them out of my receiver for a while then picked up a RME ADI Pro because I also do some recording so I can use the A/D conversion and I've been happy with that but I really wanted to get into tubes and didn't think I could do the wait for one of these so this seemed like a really great amp at the right time. I spent a lot of time looking at my account but I really liked that it was an amazing amp to start with and then upgraded by someone that is going on to build their own amps I just think that is pretty cool and since I haven't been going out much I just went for it. Really excited to learn more and read through as much of this thread as I can!



Congratulations on the purchase!


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> So, do you have to work or you in the stay home mode ?



So far I still have to work will see what happens on Monday.
The company was filing that they are a necessity that is BS .
They are trying to make a big bucks from this tragedy.
This is while the bosses work from home.  Funny how the ones that do nothing and know nothing are the ones they want to save.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> So far I still have to work will see what happens on Monday.
> The company was filing that they are a necessity that is BS .
> They are trying to make a big bucks from this tragedy.
> This is while the bosses work from home.  Funny how the ones that do nothing and know nothing are the ones they want to save.



Hopefully it all works out for you tomorrow


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Parting is such sweet sorrow.  Going to be spending quite a bit of time with the OTL today.




There is so much I want to say about the situation, but better to bite my tongue and keep what we refer to as "politics" off of Head-Fi.  I just hope this situation leaves behind a greater emphasis on public health and workers' rights in America, rather than xenophobia and isolationism.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> I don't know if I want to sell them Glenn!  What if I need them for an amp in the future?  It is kind of a lot of tubes though...gotta think about it.
> 
> Bendix 6080WB
> Cetron 6336B
> ...




This has to be a really tough call on whether to keep these tubes or sell them. It can be tough to keep tubes that you are not using as you could use the money else where.
Then again, if you ever decide to build an OTL you already have some of the best tubes available and won't have to track them down again.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> This has to be a really tough call on whether to keep these tubes or sell them. It can be tough to keep tubes that you are not using as you could use the money else where.
> Then again, if you ever decide to build an OTL you already have some of the best tubes available and won't have to track them down again.



Yes it is.  I think I am going to follow my gut and keep them for now, I just have a feeling I will need them for an OTL design at some point.  Some of them are becoming so rare and expensive, I might never find them again.


----------



## maxpudding

2359glenn said:


> So far I still have to work will see what happens on Monday.
> The company was filing that they are a necessity that is BS .
> They are trying to make a big bucks from this tragedy.
> This is while the bosses work from home.  Funny how the ones that do nothing and know nothing are the ones they want to save.



That's just nonsense. I hope everything works out for you tomorrow too. Stay safe and do all you can to protect yourself, Glenn.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes it is.  I think I am going to follow my gut and keep them for now, I just have a feeling I will need them for an OTL design at some point.  Some of them are becoming so rare and expensive, I might never find them again.



I also ended up keeping most of my 6v tubes except and packaged the amp sale with the 12v. 

I’m even toying with the idea of either having Glenn build me another. Only two power output slots and one driver slot and then heavily modified on the inside. 

Or build one myself. Inspired by you.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> I also ended up keeping most of my 6v tubes except and packaged the amp sale with the 12v.
> 
> I’m even toying with the idea of either having Glenn build me another. Only two power output slots and one driver slot and then heavily modified on the inside.
> 
> Or build one myself. Inspired by you.



That would be cool!  If you decide to go for it, I can recommend some reading materials.  I think a lot of people starting out find tried and true designs and build them, maybe make some slight modifications.  If you go full custom from the get-go and design the circuit from scratch, definitely presents a challenge, but it can be done!  Just have to take your time with the design process and bounce ideas of experienced builders.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> That would be cool!  If you decide to go for it, I can recommend some reading materials.  I think a lot of people starting out find tried and true designs and build them, maybe make some slight modifications.  If you go full custom from the get-go and design the circuit from scratch, definitely presents a challenge, but it can be done!  Just have to take your time with the design process and bounce ideas of experienced builders.





Phantaminum said:


> I also ended up keeping most of my 6v tubes except and packaged the amp sale with the 12v.
> 
> I’m even toying with the idea of either having Glenn build me another. Only two power output slots and one driver slot and then heavily modified on the inside.
> 
> Or build one myself. Inspired by you.



If you decide to build I will help you.  My output circuit is not the norm but sounds good better them most OTLs.
Laying out the chassis is the hardest part.
Or just have me build it.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> I don't know if I want to sell them Glenn!  What if I need them for an amp in the future?  It is kind of a lot of tubes though...gotta think about it.
> 
> Bendix 6080WB
> Cetron 6336B
> ...


Keep them. They are rare, collectable and will hold their value + they have the optionality value for a future OTL amp.


----------



## chrisdrop

JazzVinyl said:


> Curious about these NOS Visseaux metal 6J7's:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/i/133339962365


I think I might get a pair. Did you wind up getting any? The adapters and the tubes may take a while to arrive, but what the heck.


----------



## gibosi

An indication of just how much things have changed here in the US...

This morning I decided to go to the grocery store early, hoping to beat the crowd. And boy was I pleasantly surprised! lol


----------



## chrisdrop

gibosi said:


> An indication of just how much things have changed here in the US...
> 
> This morning I decided to go to the grocery store early, hoping to beat the crowd. And boy was I pleasantly surprised! lol



*TP, the new bling...*


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 29, 2020)

gibosi said:


> An indication of just how much things have changed here in the US...
> 
> This morning I decided to go to the grocery store early, hoping to beat the crowd. And boy was I pleasantly surprised! lol



Yesterday my grocery store surprisingly had a decent amount of TP, maybe 20-25 packages of 12.  I saw a guy with a 12 pack of TP under one arm and a 12 pack of Molson under the other.  "The bare necessities" I thought LOL.


----------



## mordy

From what I read the most bought items in the US are toilet paper and water. And there was a huge surge in people buying guns and ammunition.
Tried to understand why people feel the need for guns and ammo in these terrible and difficult times, but then I read somewhere that people fear social unrest and want to be able to defend themselves.
In any case all stores are closed here except for food stores, pharmacies and gas stations so I assume that the gun stores aren't deemed essential.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> I also ended up keeping most of my 6v tubes except and packaged the amp sale with the 12v.
> 
> I’m even toying with the idea of either having Glenn build me another. Only two power output slots and one driver slot and then heavily modified on the inside.
> 
> Or build one myself. Inspired by you.


Hi Phantaminum,
I thought that you already had found the amp you can live with forever....


----------



## maxpudding

gibosi said:


> An indication of just how much things have changed here in the US...
> 
> This morning I decided to go to the grocery store early, hoping to beat the crowd. And boy was I pleasantly surprised! lol



Wait till people are rushing for face masks/hand sanitizers/gloves


----------



## L0rdGwyn

maxpudding said:


> Wait till people are rushing for face masks/hand sanitizers/gloves



That is already happening.  In the hospital, we've had to put all PPE (personal protective equipment) on lockdown due to visitors and even employees stealing it.


----------



## maxpudding

mordy said:


> From what I read the most bought items in the US are toilet paper and water. And there was a huge surge in people buying guns and ammunition.
> Tried to understand why people feel the need for guns and ammo in these terrible and difficult times, but then I read somewhere that people fear social unrest and want to be able to defend themselves.
> In any case all stores are closed here except for food stores, pharmacies and gas stations so I assume that the gun stores aren't deemed essential.



Wondering why pharmacies and gas stations aren’t deemed essential?


L0rdGwyn said:


> That is already happening.  In the hospital, we've had to put all PPE (personal protective equipment) on lockdown due to visitors and even employees stealing it.



The stealing happens here too, and we are running out of PPEs (medical workers had to use garbage bags). Those with access of 3d printers are helping by printing out face shields.


----------



## maxpudding

And to make things worse, the state
I’m currently living in reported zero cases for the past few days, just because they ran out of reagents to test for covid19, so we cant do the analyses of patients movements where and when they contracted the virus, and our quarantine facilities are below par. FML.


----------



## Karnicopia (Mar 29, 2020)

mordy said:


> Congrats to the new amp!
> I am sure that you will have questions on using the amp and the very friendly and extremely knowledgeable members on this forum will be able to help you out.
> I am using my GOTL mainly as a preamp for speakers (and headphones as well) and I have derived countless hours of pleasure listening to this great and versatile amp!


Thanks! I didn't even think of using it with my speakers that's a really interesting idea and that was what really drew me to these was how versatile they are. I definitely will need some help so I really appreciate it, I'm just reading up as much as I can before it comes in. There's definitely a lot to learn but I'm really excited!



L0rdGwyn said:


> I think you will be very happy with it, and it pairs well with the Verite Open  I will have to do my goodbye listening tomorrow.



Thanks, I knew I wanted to get a nice tube amp for them but didn't think I'd be able to get one of these so I'm really excited. Hope you enjoy the listening and thanks for posting another picture!


----------



## 2359glenn

Karnicopia said:


> Thanks! I didn't even think of using it with my speakers that's a really interesting idea and that was what really drew me to these was how versatile they are. I definitely will need some help so I really appreciate it, I'm just reading up as much as I can before it comes in. There's definitely a lot to learn but I'm really excited!



Any questions you have will be answered.  Most people on this thread are friendly and helpful.
You will enjoy this amp with the Verite open. That is what I have.


----------



## Karnicopia

2359glenn said:


> Any questions you have will be answered.  Most people on this thread are friendly and helpful.
> You will enjoy this amp with the Verite open. That is what I have.


Thanks I'm glad to hear it and I really love that headphone it's become one of my favorite parts of the day is relaxing and listening to them and have wanted to pair it with a tube amp but have been more focused on everything else. Thanks for building these I was really drawn to how versatile they are but you can also tell from the internal pictures that it's built by someone that really cares about the hobby which is also I think part of what drew me to ZMF too. It may be a while until I start getting more tubes but do you have any suggestions that work well with your Verite open?


----------



## Zachik

Karnicopia said:


> Thanks! I didn't even think of using it with my speakers that's a really interesting idea and that was what really drew me to these was how versatile they are. I definitely will need some help so I really appreciate it, I'm just reading up as much as I can before it comes in. There's definitely a lot to learn but I'm really excited!





2359glenn said:


> Any questions you have will be answered.  Most people on this thread are friendly and helpful.
> You will enjoy this amp with the Verite open. That is what I have.


Totally agree with Glenn.
Also, as a reference - use the table I have created (link in my signature). Shows all the tubes that can be used... including warning on max # (for example no more than 2 x 6336 tubes despite having 6 sockets...).


----------



## L0rdGwyn

@Karnicopia I will be sending you a little starter guide on tube combinations, using the 6/12/25V switch, etc. so you can jump right in when it arrives.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> Hi Phantaminum,
> I thought that you already had found the amp you can live with forever....



Well...when you’re an audiophile, the search is never over. 

I sold the Apex Teton. It’s a fantastic OTL and the build is to die for but there are always trade-offs. I have another amp that’s currently being built which I’m hoping will shore those up.


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> If you decide to build I will help you.  My output circuit is not the norm but sounds good better them most OTLs.
> Laying out the chassis is the hardest part.
> Or just have me build it.



Awesome Glenn! I’m always willing to learn and I’ve always loved your design. I’ll take you up on either offer soon.


----------



## Celty

Zachik said:


> Totally agree with Glenn.
> Also, as a reference - use the table I have created (link in my signature). Shows all the tubes that can be used... including warning on max # (for example no more than 2 x 6336 tubes despite having 6 sockets...).


Zachik, I downloaded your spreadsheet awhile ago, to start to educate myself while I'm waiting on Glenn's list, and it really has some great information. The second tab has some very helpful notes as well. Thanks so much for taking the time to create it and share here. 

Recently on a different thread, someone had a question about power supplies with the Glenn OTL, so I just recommended he read that section on your sheet


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> I have another amp that’s currently being built which I’m hoping will shore those up.


Do tell...


----------



## Zachik

Celty said:


> Zachik, I downloaded your spreadsheet awhile ago, to start to educate myself while I'm waiting on Glenn's list, and it really has some great information. The second tab has some very helpful notes as well. Thanks so much for taking the time to create it and share here.
> 
> Recently on a different thread, someone had a question about power supplies with the Glenn OTL, so I just recommended he read that section on your sheet


I am truly glad I could help!
This community is absolutely great - I had a lot of questions when I started my tube journey, and got a lot of very useful responses from the great folks on this thread as well as on other Head-Fi threads.
I am always happy when I can contribute back to the community, and especially help new-comers


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> I think I might get a pair. Did you wind up getting any? The adapters and the tubes may take a while to arrive, but what the heck.



Hello Chrisdrop...

I did not order the metal Visseaux 6J7's yet.

Because.....I have been so incredibly happy with the metal Ken Rad 6J7's and Visseaux 6N7 (GT and G versions, both superb) and Quad of 6080's that I forget all about tube rolling and just marvel at how fantastic the GOTL sounds with these tubes!!!

But if you get them. I will be interested to hear what you think!

Also...my China connection for adapters has not had anything for sale for months:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/xulingmrs/

I sure hope she is okay in the face of this crazy pandemic!!


,


----------



## leftside

Finally hooked up my BOTW SBooster power supply and SOTM Ultra Neo that I picked up on the local used market a while ago. Was waiting for the Neo to be adjusted to accept the 12v power supply. It's really good. Easy to setup with Roon. Nice to browse/do work from my laptop and not have the music occasionally stutter.

Sound quality? Well I did a few tests of the Ultra Neo as transport vs my laptop as transport, and darn it I do prefer the Ultra Neo. The thing I notice the most is a slightly improved imaging. 

The Ultra Neo is connected wirelessly to my router and Roon Core, and I don't notice any difference between wireless vs ethernet. Wireless connection from the router is 5GHz upto 1300 Mbps.

Posting on here as I know a few have been interested in this device.


----------



## Monsterzero

I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.


----------



## JazzVinyl

If anyone here is hip to Linux....may I suggest the music player called "cmus".

It is a command line player that uses a tiny sliver of memory and is extremely versatile.  And it is free software.

I have it on all my Linux laptops and Raspberry Pi computers. All the music is on a hard drive connected to the router.  Have a Raspberry Pi that runs "headless" (no monitor) that accepts SSH connections.  From any laptop, I can ssh into the Pi and run cmus and load a playlist *the Pi is getting the music via it's WiFi connection..  The amazing thing about cmus is that it can manage any size music library without stuttering.  My digital music library is truly huge and cmus handles it with ease.  It also has an almost unimaginable set of features that are ultra handy.   There is no limitation to the size library it can handle.  Since it is a command line app, it uses much less memory than GUI oriented players:



I highly recommend 'cmus' as your player software, if you are a Linux user.

https://cmus.github.io/

Cheers!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.



Many heartfelt condolences, MZ


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.


Sorry to hear that my friend ☹️


----------



## Celty

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.


Very sorry for your loss, words often sound trite at such times, but at least your friend is not suffering.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.


Sorry bud


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.


Sorry to hear this.


----------



## maxpudding

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.



My condolences


----------



## maxpudding

Zachik said:


> Totally agree with Glenn.
> Also, as a reference - use the table I have created (link in my signature). Shows all the tubes that can be used... including warning on max # (for example no more than 2 x 6336 tubes despite having 6 sockets...).



Your table helps me a lot Zachik, eventho Glenn hasn’t build the amp for me, but I am stocking up on tubes waiting for the day to come.


----------



## cdanguyen08

maxpudding said:


> Your table helps me a lot Zachik, eventho Glenn hasn’t build the amp for me, but I am stocking up on the tubes waiting for the day to come.



Waiting right there with ya, Patiently. But I know itll be worth it.


----------



## jmac1516

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.


Very sorry to hear this.  Beautiful dog and I’m sure you have wonderful memories.


----------



## Monsterzero

I would like to say that @Phantaminum gave me the greatest gift Ive ever received from someone whom Ive never met.
Thank you Ramses.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.



Sorry to hear it D, cherish the memories, I'm sure you gave her the best life a dog could ask for.


----------



## maxpudding

Monsterzero said:


> I would like to say that @Phantaminum gave me the greatest gift Ive ever received from someone whom Ive never met.
> Thank you Ramses.



humansbeingbros, bro. Wishing for you and your family well-being and everyone else for that matter


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 30, 2020)

For a change of pace...rolled in a pair of RCA 6C5 (gotta love that rusty-based buggar on the right) and the Mullard EL32's and kept the quad of 6080's:




What the heck?  Sounds pretty dang good!

Listening to an album by a famous jazz trumpeter...who plays....not his trumpet...but drums, on the album


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> I would like to say that @Phantaminum gave me the greatest gift Ive ever received from someone whom Ive never met.
> Thank you Ramses.


Never met Ramses either, but from the interactions I have had with him in the last couple years - I agree he's a great guy!


----------



## A2029

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.



Sorry to hear  My dad recounts the story of the last day with our childhood dog. He spent the morning with him and fed him a couple chicken breasts instead of his normal dry chow. Despite being deaf, mostly blind, and hardly able to get back up if he sat or laid down, he followed my dad around the house and tried every trick he's ever been taught to get my dad to offer him another chicken breast. Know that your Choo Choo felt loved. Wishing you all the best during these hard times.


----------



## chrisdrop

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.


Sorry for your loss D. Be well.


----------



## Karnicopia

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.


Sorry to hear that I just try and remember the times you shared. Beautiful picture I really love the smile!


----------



## whirlwind

Sorry for your loss Monster.


----------



## Karnicopia

Zachik said:


> Totally agree with Glenn.
> Also, as a reference - use the table I have created (link in my signature). Shows all the tubes that can be used... including warning on max # (for example no more than 2 x 6336 tubes despite having 6 sockets...).



Thanks for pointing that out it's really helpful! I'm a big fan of documentation and that is really amazing info I like the list of what doesn't work, we do that at my work too as that can save a lot of time and trouble. My main plan is to just get it up and running and then I'm going to try and read up a lot  before trying to do anything else so I appreciate the 2x6336 info that was one of the things I liked about L0rdGwyn's picture too because it kind of showed that type of configuration (no clue on if those were the tubes though but there were 2 in the 6 sockets).



L0rdGwyn said:


> @Karnicopia I will be sending you a little starter guide on tube combinations, using the 6/12/25V switch, etc. so you can jump right in when it arrives.



Thanks so much I really appreciate it! That's kind of the part I was worried about was making sure I got it up and running without blowing everything up and then once I get comfortable I am looking forward to trying different combinations. I do want to start out slow though and be careful so this info is really helpful.


----------



## whirlwind

Karnicopia said:


> Thanks for pointing that out it's really helpful! I'm a big fan of documentation and that is really amazing info I like the list of what doesn't work, we do that at my work too as that can save a lot of time and trouble. My main plan is to just get it up and running and then I'm going to try and read up a lot  before trying to do anything else so I appreciate the 2x6336 info that was one of the things I liked about L0rdGwyn's picture too because it kind of showed that type of configuration (no clue on if those were the tubes though but there were 2 in the 6 sockets).
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks so much I really appreciate it! That's kind of the part I was worried about was making sure I got it up and running without blowing everything up and then once I get comfortable I am looking forward to trying different combinations. I do want to start out slow though and be careful so this info is really helpful.




You are going to have such a good time with this amp...great times ahead for you.
This amp is a wonderful match for high impedance headphones and it is pretty good with easy to drive planars also.
Have fun and happy listening.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.



I'm sorry for your loss Darren. Thanks for sharing this slice of life that was ChooChoo. Beautiful pics. 

As someone once told me: Dogs live a short life because of the amount of joy the bring into this world. I'll toast a beer to her.


----------



## Zachik

Karnicopia said:


> Thanks for pointing that out it's really helpful! I'm a big fan of documentation and that is really amazing info I like the list of what doesn't work, we do that at my work too as that can save a lot of time and trouble. My main plan is to just get it up and running and then I'm going to try and read up a lot before trying to do anything else so I appreciate the 2x6336 info that was one of the things I liked about L0rdGwyn's picture too because it kind of showed that type of configuration (no clue on if those were the tubes though but there were 2 in the 6 sockets).


You're most welcome 
One thing to keep in mind - Keenan has replaced the 2 x C3g sockets with 2 x 6J5 sockets in his amp. That means you should ignore the whole section that lists C3g and other tubes with adapters in those sockets!
On the plus side, you can use 6J5 tubes natively, without adapters in the 6SN7 socket. 

You're in for a great treat!!! Have fun


----------



## leftside

I see Glenn has been making some new tube amps:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-looking-tube-amp.417493/page-112#post-15533426


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Well I am GOTL-less now, OTL tubes are going into storage.  The end of an era!  Although a pretty short era actually now that I think about it 



leftside said:


> I see Glenn has been making some new tube amps:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-looking-tube-amp.417493/page-112#post-15533426



Glenn needs to trademark his name!  Idk if it will hold its own against some of those beauties, but is it bad practice to submit your own amps to that thread?


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well I am GOTL-less now, OTL tubes are going into storage.  The end of an era!  Although a pretty short era actually now that I think about it
> 
> 
> 
> Glenn needs to trademark his name!  Idk if it will hold its own against some of those beauties, but is it bad practice to submit your own amps to that thread?


Nah, submit away. Your amp is pretty.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Mar 30, 2020)

@Monsterzero

I'm so sorry for your loss.  Choo Choo knew he was loved, and you'll carry all your great memories of him with you.

Stay strong.

edit:  Still asleep this morning.  I meant to say SHE was loved.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> I see Glenn has been making some new tube amps:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-looking-tube-amp.417493/page-112#post-15533426



I remember at one time in this thread there was some talk of getting a badge made for Glenn's amps.
Glenn's amps have sort of an invisible badge already...your eyes just tell you, Glenn made that.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well I am GOTL-less now, OTL tubes are going into storage.  The end of an era!  Although a pretty short era actually now that I think about it
> 
> 
> 
> Glenn needs to trademark his name!  Idk if it will hold its own against some of those beauties, but is it bad practice to submit your own amps to that thread?


I'm having non-buyer's remorse! I should've purchased your amp, reviewed it, then resold it. I need more content for my YT channel and have wanted to try out a GOTL to see what the cult is all about


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well I am GOTL-less now, OTL tubes are going into storage.  The end of an era!  Although a pretty short era actually now that I think about it
> 
> 
> 
> Glenn needs to trademark his name!  Idk if it will hold its own against some of those beauties, but is it bad practice to submit your own amps to that thread?




Good choice to keep those tubes....at some point something tells me that they will get used again.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I never did ask Louis who his supplier was for his stamped logos.  That's just as well as I suspect once I saw the price for a non-volume run the idea would fizzle out anyway.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Mar 30, 2020)

Xcalibur255 said:


> I never did ask Louis who his supplier was for his stamped logos.  That's just as well as I suspect once I saw the price for a non-volume run the idea would fizzle out anyway.



Sorry this is off topic: Louis of Omega Speakers?  Must be fate, I am currently trading emails with him, likely picking up a set of his speakers.

He is recommending these to me, a "Customshop 8 High Output" monitor, somewhere around 97dB/W sensitivity.  I'm more of a walnut guy, but I am intrigued.  His prices are very reasonable.

Edit: the link would help - https://www.instagram.com/p/B-FUvpYpCmb/


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Relaxasaurus said:


> I'm having non-buyer's remorse! I should've purchased your amp, reviewed it, then resold it. I need more content for my YT channel and have wanted to try out a GOTL to see what the cult is all about



Perhaps another will come along.  Would be a very tricky review, the GOTL is a chameleon, you'd have to get a pile of tubes to see how it sounds in many configurations!  I know it isn't the same, but Zach (ZMF) brings his GOTL to nearly every show and event he attends, could get a flavor in that setting at least.


----------



## maxpudding

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glenn needs to trademark his name!  Idk if it will hold its own against some of those beauties, but is it bad practice to submit your own amps to that thread?



I don't know why, maybe it's just me, your amp has that lampizator-ish look, which is pretty. And not cheap.


----------



## raindownthunda

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.



Sorry for your loss. Losing a dog is one of the most difficult things. Will be sending positive thoughts your way.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Glenn's amps have sort of an invisible badge already...your eyes just tell you, Glenn made that.


My EL3N amp from Glenn has a very visible "badge".
Cannot wait to share some photos (as soon as I get the amp)... A thing of beauty!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Mar 30, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sorry this is off topic: Louis of Omega Speakers?  Must be fate, I am currently trading emails with him, likely picking up a set of his speakers.
> 
> He is recommending these to me, a "Customshop 8 High Output" monitor, somewhere around 97dB/W sensitivity.  I'm more of a walnut guy, but I am intrigued.  His prices are very reasonable.
> 
> Edit: the link would help - https://www.instagram.com/p/B-FUvpYpCmb/



I own a customized pair of Super Alnico Monitors.  I'm not super familiar with your sonic preferences, but for me it's Alnico all the way.  Feel free to hit me up if you want me to ramble about them.  I did post a rather long winded impression post in Jason's "Schiit Happened" thread not too long ago as well.

Short version is if you are looking for something that performs very well at lower volumes for near-field then you have found the right speaker.  These things sound full and dynamic at whisper quiet volumes and the first time you hear them do it you'll be blown away.  I'm not sure if this is true of Louis's ferrite magnet speakers, but the Alnicos are pretty special.

I personally have an issue where the tone gets nasal if the volumes are pushed higher, and I don't know if it's the speakers or the amp.  No other owner complains about this, so I have not been inclined to blame the speaker, and if that were the case I've kind of wondered if maybe just playing them loud once would cure the matter.  The combination of super low mechanical damping and super high magnetic field strength in this design seems to imbue them with some rather unique break-in behaviors.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> My EL3N amp from Glenn has a very visible "badge".
> Cannot wait to share some photos (as soon as I get the amp)... A thing of beauty!!!



Cant wait to see it and to hear your impressions of it...


----------



## maxpudding

Zachik said:


> My EL3N amp from Glenn has a very visible "badge".
> Cannot wait to share some photos (as soon as I get the amp)... A thing of beauty!!!



Looking forward to seeing it


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> I own a customized pair of Super Alnico Monitors.  I'm not super familiar with your sonic preferences, but for me it's Alnico all the way.  Feel free to hit me up if you want me to ramble about them.  I did post a rather long winded impression post in Jason's "Schiit Happened" thread not too long ago as well.
> 
> Short version is if you are looking for something that performs very well at lower volumes for near-field then you have found the right speaker.  These things sound full and dynamic at whisper quiet volumes and the first time you hear them do it you'll be blown away.  I'm not sure if this is true of Louis's ferrite magnet speakers, but the Alnicos are pretty special.
> 
> I personally have an issue where the tone gets nasal if the volumes are pushed higher, and I don't know if it's the speakers or the amp.  No other owner complains about this, so I have not been inclined to blame the speaker, and if that were the case I've kind of wondered if maybe just playing them loud once would cure the matter.  The combination of super low mechanical damping and super high magnetic field strength in this design seems to imbue them with some rather unique break-in behaviors.



Interesting, the Super Alnico Monitors jumped out to me, I'm just trying to figure out what is going to work well in my space and genre preferences.  This custom design was Louis' solution, which he built for a customer recently.  Something of a high priority is how picky the speakers will be about near-wall positioning - I have a small home, and my room simply doesn't allow me to follow anything close to a "rule of thirds" placement.  I have read multiple places now how odd the break-in characteristics are, but post break-in, they seem to get very high praise.

I'll look for your post in the Schiit thread, likely will be shooting you a PM about your experience soon!  Thanks.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.


So sorry for your loss


----------



## ashwinvyas1981 (Mar 30, 2020)

leftside said:


> I see Glenn has been making some new tube amps:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-looking-tube-amp.417493/page-112#post-15533426


Trafomatic audio...... a friend of mine in Germany heard their top of the line power amp Elysium...... n he was spellbound......


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> I'll look for your post in the Schiit thread, likely will be shooting you a PM about your experience soon!  Thanks.



Feel free to PM anytime.


----------



## felix3650

Monsterzero said:


> I lost my Choo Choo today. Please take some time out to give your friend a hug and a kiss. Theyre gone way too soon.
> They say heaven is full of dogs,and if its not true,I have no interest in going.


 such cheerful eyes...sorry for your loss bud...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hope everyone is staying safe and letting 'em glow...


----------



## Celty

JazzVinyl said:


> Hope everyone is staying safe and letting 'em glow...


Oooo.. pretty


----------



## chrisdrop

JazzVinyl said:


> For a change of pace...rolled in a pair of RCA 6C5 (gotta love that rusty-based buggar on the right) and the Mullard EL32's and kept the quad of 6080's:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your picture is *much* better - I thought I'd copy; adding the EL32s. I hadn't used them at all yet. They are only a few hours in - let's see how we go!

(2x RCA 6080, 2x Bendix 6080,  2x Mullard EL32/CV1052, 2x GE 6C5)




Be well all.

N.B. Every slot is currently sporting either an adapter or a nice ceramic socket saver from @Deyan. Thanks again @Deyan.


----------



## lukeap69

This work from home scheme is boring me to death. The only bright side, besides being safe, is having more time with Darna. She is still sporting a pair of C3g and a pair of GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> This work from home scheme is boring me to death. The only bright side, besides being safe, is having more time with Darna. She is still sporting a pair of C3g and a pair of GEC 6AS7G.



Hey Arnold!
That is one transparent kind combo there!
Hope all is well other than you being bored.
With all of the bad stuff happening out there, music has been the thing to put me in my happy place as watching tv about the virus just saddens me.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Hey Arnold!
> That is one transparent kind combo there!
> Hope all is well other than you being bored.
> With all of the bad stuff happening out there, music has been the thing to put me in my happy place as watching tv about the virus just saddens me.


Hey Joe
All is okay here, hope you are also keeping yourself and the people around you safe. Indeed, most news around the world are very sad. Music is, and always has been, a source of happiness. And so are thoughts from friends like you. Stay safe. Cheers.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Gotta love eBay tube sellers.

I received my five-pack of Sylvania 45s today.  Seller put one of the tubes in this box...with no ends...unsecured...you might be able to guess where this is going.



All of the boxes were inside a paper bag, which then was surrounded by bubble wrap.  Having no way of knowing the tube in this box was completely unsecured, I pulled it out of the bag, and it immediately fell to the floor and shattered.  Nice.

Fortunately it is a five-pack and I got a deal, still seeking some compensation from the seller though, people really don't think sometimes.  Tape it closed, or something, anything!


----------



## maxpudding

L0rdGwyn said:


> Gotta love eBay tube sellers.
> 
> I received my five-pack of Sylvania 45s today.  Seller put one of the tubes in this box...with no ends...unsecured...you might be able to guess where this is going.
> 
> ...



That’s sucks


----------



## heliosphann

So I hear you guys tube in here???


----------



## L0rdGwyn

maxpudding said:


> That’s sucks



It happens, hope I get some money back!



heliosphann said:


> So I hear you guys tube in here???



No, this is the _lube_ forum, the tube forum is down the hall third door on your left.

I need to go to bed.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Wondering how Glenn did @2359glenn did with his day job and 'essential'...

Here is this evenings' glow:

Hope everyone is still healthy...


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> Your picture is *much* better - I thought I'd copy; adding the EL32s. I hadn't used them at all yet. They are only a few hours in - let's see how we go!
> 
> (2x RCA 6080, 2x Bendix 6080,  2x Mullard EL32/CV1052, 2x GE 6C5)
> 
> ...



Cool Chrisdrop!  How do we sound?

Great looking EL32 adapters!!  Way to go, @Deyan !!


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> No, this is the _lube_ forum, the tube forum is down the hall third door on your left.
> 
> I need to go to bed.



Man, I've been gone for too long. You guys have... Changed.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> Man, I've been gone for too long. You guys have... Changed.



Staring at tubes for this long does something to your brain.  It ain't natural!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Trying some old standby's...





This is one lovely sounding tube!

.


----------



## A2029

L0rdGwyn said:


> Staring at tubes for this long does something to your brain.  It ain't natural!



It's all the lead from soldering and the flux fumes


----------



## L0rdGwyn

A2029 said:


> It's all the lead from soldering and the flux fumes



Isn't that the truth!  I wear a respirator when I solder these days, no more lead for this brain


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Gotta love eBay tube sellers.
> 
> I received my five-pack of Sylvania 45s today.  Seller put one of the tubes in this box...with no ends...unsecured...you might be able to guess where this is going.
> 
> ...



Note To Self - "Always open tubes over the couch"!   J/K Sorry you lost one.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Wondering how Glenn did @2359glenn did with his day job and 'essential'...
> 
> Here is this evenings' glow:
> 
> Hope everyone is still healthy...




I was wondering the same, my guess is that they made him work, but I hope not.


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Gotta love eBay tube sellers.
> 
> I received my five-pack of Sylvania 45s today.  Seller put one of the tubes in this box...with no ends...unsecured...you might be able to guess where this is going.
> 
> ...


That's a bummer.    Most original 45 tube boxes are open on the top and bottom like that.  Some have little intricate folding flaps with a cutout on the bottom so the tube can be tested without taking it out of the box, while others are basically just a sleeve with nothing on the ends at all.

Bright side is now you can poke around at the internal construction of one to satisfy curiosity at least.  I'd wear exam gloves while doing it though.  Some of the stuff in those old tubes is now known to be toxic.


----------



## chrisdrop

JazzVinyl said:


> Cool Chrisdrop!  How do we sound?
> 
> Great looking EL32 adapters!!  Way to go, @Deyan !!


I have maybe 25 hrs on the EL32s now. So far, I _think_ they are additive, but not 100%  yet. I can't really put my finger on what they are doing. Maybe adding some tonal depth in the lower mids? Not really sure yet, but I am _absolutely_ going to carry on; another 2d like this, then I will remove them. At work, we'd call it ablation; how much does it hurt to remove it?! Sometimes that is the only way I can tell. I think we are spoiled; it all sounds so good!


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> I have maybe 25 hrs on the EL32s now. So far, I _think_ they are additive, but not 100%  yet. I can't really put my finger on what they are doing. Maybe adding some tonal depth in the lower mids? Not really sure yet, but I am _absolutely_ going to carry on; another 2d like this, then I will remove them. At work, we'd call it ablation; how much does it hurt to remove it?! Sometimes that is the only way I can tell. I think we are spoiled; it all sounds so good!



I think they add too, in my cans, seems like midrange clarity and details.

But, I am with you in that it all sounds good and we are definitely spoiled!!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Apr 2, 2020)

Tonight's glow fest:


----------



## gibosi

I suspect that I might be the only one listening to EL41 and EL42?

Anyway, I haven't felt the urge replace these Mullard EL42 in quite some time.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> I suspect that I might be the only one listening to EL41 and EL42?
> 
> Anyway, I haven't felt the urge replace these Mullard EL42 in quite some time.


With all the adapters and additional height and tubes - you should nickname your GOTL "Manhattan"


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> With all the adapters and additional height and tubes - you should nickname your GOTL "Manhattan"



Well, I ordered my OTL before six output sockets became the "standard". And for sure, if I were to order a new OTL today, I would get six. But still, I use a large number of rectifiers and drivers that require adapters, so the overall look wouldn't be all that different.


----------



## Karnicopia

I've had L0rdGwyn's amp now for a couple days I've been listening a lot, probably 2 hour bursts every now and then but just really loving the sound of this and it really does complement the sound of the verite in a way that I really appreciate. I liked the verite pads because it has the dynamics and imaging and speed (it enhances everything I like about the headphone) and this amp expands the soundstage it in the ways that I gave up going to the verite pads but in a much better way because I can keep the speed and dynamics. The spaciousness is just like the piece that wasn't missing but it was the one tradeoff that the verite pads made me make and this just sounds wonderful. I'm mainly still going off of L0rdGwyn's suggestion for a good setup with the included tubes 2 National Union 12J5 and 6 Sylvania 6BL7. I'm really enjoying the sound so I haven't changed anything yet just kind of going through my favorite albums and enjoying the sound of things as is. I'm sure I'll get around to trying some different combinations though but for now I'm just really enjoying it.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Karnicopia said:


> I've had L0rdGwyn's amp now for a couple days I've been listening a lot, probably 2 hour bursts every now and then but just really loving the sound of this and it really does complement the sound of the verite in a way that I really appreciate. I liked the verite pads because it has the dynamics and imaging and speed (it enhances everything I like about the headphone) and this amp expands the soundstage it in the ways that I gave up going to the verite pads but in a much better way because I can keep the speed and dynamics. The spaciousness is just like the piece that wasn't missing but it was the one tradeoff that the verite pads made me make and this just sounds wonderful. I'm mainly still going off of L0rdGwyn's suggestion for a good setup with the included tubes 2 National Union 12J5 and 6 Sylvania 6BL7. I'm really enjoying the sound so I haven't changed anything yet just kind of going through my favorite albums and enjoying the sound of things as is. I'm sure I'll get around to trying some different combinations though but for now I'm just really enjoying it.


Thanks for the write up. Can you post any pics?


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> I have maybe 25 hrs on the EL32s now. So far, I _think_ they are additive, but not 100%  yet. I can't really put my finger on what they are doing. Maybe adding some tonal depth in the lower mids? Not really sure yet, but I am _absolutely_ going to carry on; another 2d like this, then I will remove them. At work, we'd call it ablation; how much does it hurt to remove it?! Sometimes that is the only way I can tell. I think we are spoiled; it all sounds so good!


Hi cd,
I used the Mullard EL32 extensively and I had the same query as you have. They seem to fill out the sound but not always - it depends on the other driver tube(s).
But the best thing about the EL32 tubes is that you now have the correct adapters for the 6J7 tubes.
Try a pair of K-R, RCA, or GE 6J7 and they will leave the EL32 relegated to the dust bin when combined with a K-R 6N7.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi cd,
> I used the Mullard EL32 extensively and I had the same query as you have. They seem to fill out the sound but not always - it depends on the other driver tube(s).
> But the best thing about the EL32 tubes is that you now have the correct adapters for the 6J7 tubes.
> Try a pair of K-R, RCA, or GE 6J7 and they will leave the EL32 relegated to the dust bin when combined with a K-R 6N7.



6J7 pair adapted to the C3g sockets and a 6N7 in sn7 socket is indeed a very special and spectacular combo for the GOTL!!

I do like the EL32's with the C5G/6J5/12J5's in the sn7 socket.  But since the 6J7's are so inexpensive and just drop right in, I do think you should try the 6J7/6N7 combo too, Chrisdrop!!

Hope everyone is continuing to stay well....!!!!


----------



## Karnicopia (Apr 3, 2020)

Relaxasaurus said:


> Thanks for the write up. Can you post any pics?



I'll try to get better pictures with the glow but this was the one I sent to make sure I had it set up right before turning things on. L0rdGwyn was a big help sending me a startup guide so I didn't blow anything up and this was the suggested initial setup. I still haven't changed anything from this I'm really enjoying the sound of these! I'll try and post some more pictures I really do love the glow of these and have been turning down my lights when I listen.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Karnicopia said:


> I'll try to get better pictures with the glow but this was the one I sent to make sure I had it set up right before turning things on. L0rdGwyn was a big help sending me a startup guide so I didn't blow anything up and this was the suggested initial setup. I still haven't changed anything from this I'm really enjoying the sound of these! I'll try and post some more pictures I really do love the glow of these and have been turning down my lights when I listen.



Looking good K-man!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Tonight's Glow:







I sure hope everyone is practicing "Safe Pandemic" and are safe & well...


----------



## maxpudding

JazzVinyl said:


> Tonight's Glow:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You too, Bruce! Keep the photos coming


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Hi cd,
> I used the Mullard EL32 extensively and I had the same query as you have. They seem to fill out the sound but not always - it depends on the other driver tube(s).
> But the best thing about the EL32 tubes is that you now have the correct adapters for the 6J7 tubes.
> Try a pair of K-R, RCA, or GE 6J7 and they will leave the EL32 relegated to the dust bin when combined with a K-R 6N7.



I didn't appreciate that at all. Thank you. I was going to have Deyan make a pair of 6J7 adapters, but that seems unneeded. I guess it is time to get a pair of those Visseaux metal 6J7s...

For 6N7s, it looks like I'll need an adapter for those (6N7, 6N7G, 6N7GT, ECC31 > ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter (from Deyan)).

I guess @Zachik's tube compatibility sheet (for which I am thankful, and have a local clone of) can add (or a comment):
      Before: (EL32 > Deyan's custom adapters for EL32 to c3g)
      After:    (EL32, *6J7* > Deyan's custom adapters for EL32 to c3g)

Is that right?

I was just going into the tube cupboard and I also have pairs of EL11 and EL39 tubes (and adapters from the Euforia in these pictures, which I don't think are appropriate to use in the GOTL). Thanks again to Zachik's tube sheet, I can see (EL11, EL12N, EL13 > Deyan's custom adapters for EL11 to c3g). EL39s are more of a rare tube it seems. Not sure if there is a positive expected use for them in the Glenn amps (presumably via c3g slots).




Looking at other adapters in the cupboard, I nabbed EL8s with adapters from @Monsterzero a few months back. (EL8, EL3N, EL6 > Deyan's custom adapters for EL3N to c3g). Is anyone using EL3Ns in these c3g slots? I think some other Glenn amps use these valves so thought perhaps they were worth a go?

Be well all!


----------



## whirlwind

chrisdrop said:


> I didn't appreciate that at all. Thank you. I was going to have Deyan make a pair of 6J7 adapters, but that seems unneeded. I guess it is time to get a pair of those Visseaux metal 6J7s...
> 
> For 6N7s, it looks like I'll need an adapter for those (6N7, 6N7G, 6N7GT, ECC31 > ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter (from Deyan)).
> 
> ...




The EL3N tubes sound great, I have only heard them in my GOTL from the single SN7 socket with the adapter, they sound great that way.
In the EL3N amp they have more presence, but from the C3g sockets in your amp, that may be a different story.
I look forward to your impressions if you try them.


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> I didn't appreciate that at all. Thank you. I was going to have Deyan make a pair of 6J7 adapters, but that seems unneeded. I guess it is time to get a pair of those Visseaux metal 6J7s...
> 
> For 6N7s, it looks like I'll need an adapter for those (6N7, 6N7G, 6N7GT, ECC31 > ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter (from Deyan)).
> 
> ...



Hello ChrisDrop...

Yes, your EL32 adapters also work for 6J7!

I do not have the EL11 or EL39, @mordy liked EL11 in GOTL, he knows the adapter situation.  

Not sure about EL39 and the GOTL.

Cheers!  And stay safe!


----------



## gibosi (Apr 4, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> I didn't appreciate that at all. Thank you. I was going to have Deyan make a pair of 6J7 adapters, but that seems unneeded. I guess it is time to get a pair of those Visseaux metal 6J7s...
> 
> For 6N7s, it looks like I'll need an adapter for those (6N7, 6N7G, 6N7GT, ECC31 > ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter (from Deyan)).
> 
> ...



Yes I often run EL3N via adapters in the C3g sockets. And they are one of my favorite drivers.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Is anyone using EL3Ns in these c3g slots? I think some other Glenn amps use these valves so thought perhaps they were worth a go?



I got some EL3N's and adapters for the C3g slots from @L0rdGwyn about 6 months ago and admittedly haven't even tried them yet.  That's when you know you have too many tubes to deal with  .

I've spent all my time in those months with one of several combinations: 1) EL32's in the C3g slots, with 6J5/6C5/12J5's in the SN7 slot; 2) 6J5/6C5/12J5's in the SN7 slot and nothing in the C3g slot (except for a few attempts at using actual C3g's there, but I got C3g'd and then stopped); or 3) 6J7's in the C3g slots and a 6N7 in the SN7 slot.     

Wow, if any "normal" person read that last sentence they would wonder what language we are speaking.

Work has been insanely busy lately, which is surprising given I haven't left the house in almost a week, except to go outside for running/cycling etc.  It's as if people feel the need to go overboard with online meetings to compensate for not having meetings in person (I am having way more meetings than normal since shelter-at-home started).  Meetings all day means other work has to get done at night.  So my listening time has been extremely limited.  But the last 2 or 3 sessions have been with only some RCA 6J5 tubes (meatball logos) and nothing in the C3g slots (a 1960's Sylvania 6080 quad for powers).  Prior to that it had been a few weeks of a KR 6N7 and RCA 6J7's.  Now I'm not sure which combo I like better as I was surprised by how much I liked going back to just the 6J5's alone.  The good news is that they all sound good, which everyone here already knows is a strength of the GOTL.  I feel fortunate to have this embarrassment of tube riches at a time like this.  Now I just need to find more time to use them.

Hope all of you are healthy and that the same is true for your families/friends/colleagues.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> I didn't appreciate that at all. Thank you. I was going to have Deyan make a pair of 6J7 adapters, but that seems unneeded. I guess it is time to get a pair of those Visseaux metal 6J7s...
> 
> For 6N7s, it looks like I'll need an adapter for those (6N7, 6N7G, 6N7GT, ECC31 > ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter (from Deyan)).
> 
> ...



I should add that I am using EL32/6J7 to C3g and 6N7 to SN7 adapters from xulingmrs as well as 6J5 to SN7 adapters from Deyan.  The adapters are all performing marvelously.


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> I guess @Zachik's tube compatibility sheet (for which I am thankful, and have a local clone of) can add (or a comment):
> Before: (EL32 > Deyan's custom adapters for EL32 to c3g)
> After: (EL32, *6J7* > Deyan's custom adapters for EL32 to c3g)
> 
> Is that right?


You are most welcome my friend!  



JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, your EL32 adapters also work for 6J7!


Added to my table, per @chrisdrop suggestion, and @JazzVinyl confirmation.
(first update since Feb. 14... I guess the table is pretty stable by now )


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Yes I often run EL3N via adapters in the C3g sockets. And they are one of my favorite drivers.




The dynamics and slam of the 5998 tubes to go with the big but warm sound of EL3N with that Cossor ...that should be a beautiful sound   

I may have to eventually get these adapters for my GOTL


----------



## JazzVinyl

I think a lot of the "My Favorite Drivers" has to do with your cans.  I have never been favorable to EL3N in the GOTL, but many say they are great, so must be my 2 sets of cans do not manage to make the most of them.

I have been doing some major tube rolling the last few nights and with my old Senn 580's - I am staying with 6J7 in C3g sockets and a 6N7 in the sn7 socket as "best".  Have been using quad of 6080 for many weeks but tempted now to try my 5998 pair, instead.

Stay tuned 

Will also say that many tube a roll sounds awful darned good!!  A testament to Glenn's superb design!

And as always, hope everyone is staying safe and well...Looking forward to "normal life" returning, one day...


----------



## chrisdrop (Apr 4, 2020)

It seems there is one more adapter to go; 6N7 to 6SN7

Thank you all for the helpful and cheerful comments.

I've begun rotating through (6C5, 6J5, 12J5)s with the EL32s after @mordy's comments.



> .. They seem to fill out the sound but not always - _it depends on the other driver tube(s)_.



Presently 2x Hytron 6C5s. I just started on these for the first time since Christmas. So far, so good.:



Maybe at some point, I'll change outputs, but for a few months now, I really like the Bendix+RCA 6080 combo.

Finally, I am also really enjoying the new SW1X DAC for the past several weeks. I am thankful that happened before lockdown.

Listing to _(possibly posted before, but can't help listening):_


----------



## Karnicopia

I find myself turning down the lights a lot when listening now.


----------



## dminches

Anyone heard from Glenn recently?  Just hoping his is doing ok.


----------



## whirlwind

dminches said:


> Anyone heard from Glenn recently?  Just hoping his is doing ok.



Last weekend he was wondering if he would have to work on Monday...have not heard anything since.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> The dynamics and slam of the 5998 tubes to go with the big but warm sound of EL3N with that Cossor ...that should be a beautiful sound
> 
> I may have to eventually get these adapters for my GOTL



And coincidentally, if someone would like to have the Cossor 53KU, the much more affordable 4-volt version is available on eBay for a reasonable price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOV-45-IU-...-Tube-BBC-BVA-U18-Fw4-500-Cossor/184236644230


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> And coincidentally, if someone would like to have the Cossor 53KU, the much more affordable 4-volt version is available on eBay for a reasonable price.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOV-45-IU-...-Tube-BBC-BVA-U18-Fw4-500-Cossor/184236644230



Nice price.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Last weekend he was wondering if he would have to work on Monday...have not heard anything since.



I have been wondering how he is fairing, too...


----------



## raindownthunda

JazzVinyl said:


> I have been wondering how he is fairing, too...



I heard from Glenn on Wednesday. He said he’s been busier than ever having to work nonstop and was also going to work on an amp this weekend... Hope he gets a break soon and gets some quality listening time at home! Stay safe out there folks.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Apr 4, 2020)

Tonight's Glow:










The "Western" (RCA) 12J5's that I obtained NOS for $4 ea from Glenn's bud over at ESRC:
http://www.esrcvacuumtubes.com/vacuumtubes_tubelist_tubes_12A-12Z5.html

I removed the quad of 6080's that I had in for months and put in my pair of Tung-Sol 5998's. 
Was trying out the driver triplet of 6N7/6J5's when I went for the 5998's, but way too much gain using the 5998's.
Tried several drivers with the 6J7's in the C3g positions, but all were not right.  Removed the 6J7's now the gain is better, and these RCA 12J5 (branded "Western") are absolutely superb with the 5998's.

Will compare the RCA 12J5's with metal RCA 6J5's later this evening.  But for now, enjoying this tube compliment and via the magic of Steve Tibbets' music.

Cheers all...

Be safe and healthy!  Help make the Virus GO AWAY!


----------



## Karnicopia




----------



## JazzVinyl

Just arrived...less glow but great sounds!








These just in.  A pair of NOS Ken Rad Metal 6C5's.   Sounding superb with the 5998's, too!

Be safe y'all...!


----------



## leftside

Karnicopia said:


>



I've been listening to a live stream from a London nightclub all afternoon. Lot's of people participating in the chat room and also on a Zoom video feed. Everyone partying/drinking in their living rooms!


----------



## chrisdrop (Apr 5, 2020)

leftside said:


> I've been listening to a live stream from a London nightclub all afternoon. Lot's of people participating in the chat room and also on a Zoom video feed. Everyone partying/drinking in their living rooms!



You guys (@Karnicopia & @leftside) inspired a fun detour looking for sets from London clubs. This is close (via Fabric) and I've been am sat here enjoying it now:



I also think this morning's combo (seeking EL32 partners) is doing all the right things. I quite like these GECs, but I think stand-alone (no EL32s) I might prefer the 10 quid metal GE 6C5s! _Together with the EL32s_, I think I strongly prefer the GECs. 

_(EDIT after a few more hours. I don't think my amp has ever sounded this good. *Loving* this setup.)_



_(I really need to dust and JV is photo-shaming the rest of us with his skills)_

@2359glenn - we all hope you are well! In a few days, I'll have had my amp for 6 months. It has become such a part of my everyday life and it is hard to believe it has only been such a short time. Thanks for making beautiful amps for us all.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

dminches said:


> Anyone heard from Glenn recently?  Just hoping his is doing ok.


I heard from him on Wednesday.... little chat on some toob stuff... he still has to go to work despite the NC is under lock down......


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> You guys (@Karnicopia & @leftside) inspired a fun detour looking for sets from London clubs. This is close (via Fabric) and I've been am sat here enjoying it now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am still well.
After working 7 days for weeks they are closing down permanently. After possibly exposing us to this lay us off so we have no insurance.
Could say allot of things that I can't post here.
Did find new Jobs for more money but 3hrs away. have to find a new house not so easy now with many real estate company's closed.
Don't want to move but no choice. To much junk to move will have to through out 100s of tubes most TV tubes.


----------



## lukeap69

Not the best time for you to experience this Glenn. I wish you all the best.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Apr 5, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> I also think this morning's combo (seeking EL32 partners) is doing all the right things. I quite like these GECs, but I think stand-alone (no EL32s) I might prefer the 10 quid metal GE 6C5s! _Together with the EL32s_, I think I strongly prefer the GECs.
> 
> _(EDIT after a few more hours. I don't think my amp has ever sounded this good. *Loving* this setup.)_
> 
> ...



Hello Chrisdrop...

I had to take off the HP and go get a hand towel...to wipe off the drool from looking at your beautiful GEC's!!  Wow! Are they designated L63's  Or 6J5's?

Last night, I was EL32-less and compared the RCA 12J5GT's to Ken Rad metal 6C5's with 5998 powers.  Both driver sets are beautiful but I preferred the overall presentation of the RCA 12J5's.  A little clearer/more personal w/details in the mids and velvet gloved, smooth and even highs.

After this post, I decided to do an intense study of adding the EL32's to the RCA 12J5/5998's...what really happens?

I chose the song: "My Rival" from the Steely Dan album "Gaucho" as my test song. I am very familiar with this song, every single note and every teensy tiny detail in this tune, which was widely acknowledged to have had a lot of studio engineering preformed to make it unrivaled (pun intended) in recording quality.

1st up is RCA 12J5/TS 5998 - and it's beautiful - hard to imagine it sounding better.
then
RCA 12J5 / Mullard EL32 / TS 5998 - there is added thickness to the whole recording.  A "reverb", a presence, if you will.  Much deeper soundstage. Detail retrieval went off the charts.  The harmony singing parts become much more palatable. Tiny details are clarified, fully explained and made important.  It is rather like turning the resolution of the recording way way up.  I think the EL32's make a gigantic difference for the much better.

That is....if you like a thick rich deep and involving soundstage, immense detail retrieval, human voices that sound absolutely real, like your in the room at the moments when the recording was made....and off the charts detail retrieval....





Give a whirl, Chrisdrop...take a superb driver set and a recording you know well and love, and carefully compare, with and without the magical EL32's.

Everyone....please stay safe and well...!!

Cheers!

~JV~


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> I am still well.
> After working 7 days for weeks they are closing down permanently. After possibly exposing us to this lay us off so we have no insurance.
> Could say allot of things that I can't post here.
> Did find new Jobs for more money but 3hrs away. have to find a new house not so easy now with many real estate company's closed.
> Don't want to move but no choice. To much junk to move will have to through out 100s of tubes most TV tubes.



WOW!  Glenn!!  Sorry to hear this!  

Goodness man, you have many here, who wish you well, I think I speak for all in saying: let us know if we can help you, in some way!


----------



## Celty

2359glenn said:


> I am still well.
> After working 7 days for weeks they are closing down permanently. After possibly exposing us to this lay us off so we have no insurance.
> Could say allot of things that I can't post here.
> Did find new Jobs for more money but 3hrs away. have to find a new house not so easy now with many real estate company's closed.
> Don't want to move but no choice. To much junk to move will have to through out 100s of tubes most TV tubes.


That truly sucks, the bastards!  So sorry you are going through such a bad deal.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I am still well.
> After working 7 days for weeks they are closing down permanently. After possibly exposing us to this lay us off so we have no insurance.
> Could say allot of things that I can't post here.
> Did find new Jobs for more money but 3hrs away. have to find a new house not so easy now with many real estate company's closed.
> Don't want to move but no choice. To much junk to move will have to through out 100s of tubes most TV tubes.




So sorry to hear this Glenn, and what a bad time to have to find a house. Keep grinding and everything will work out.
The worst thing about moving is having to move all of stuff that has been collected over the years.

If you need anything just let me know....thinking of you.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> I am still well.
> After working 7 days for weeks they are closing down permanently. After possibly exposing us to this lay us off so we have no insurance.
> Could say allot of things that I can't post here.
> Did find new Jobs for more money but 3hrs away. have to find a new house not so easy now with many real estate company's closed.
> Don't want to move but no choice. To much junk to move will have to through out 100s of tubes most TV tubes.



Sorry to hear that, Glenn. One day at a time, tough situation to be in, but you will get through it. 
Most important, be careful, stay well. You’ve been through worse, you’ll beat this also.
’


----------



## Karnicopia (Apr 5, 2020)

leftside said:


> I've been listening to a live stream from a London nightclub all afternoon. Lot's of people participating in the chat room and also on a Zoom video feed. Everyone partying/drinking in their living rooms!



I've noticed a lot of DJ's started doing this too which is really cool. I think we're going to see an explosion of new music come out of this because so many musicians have time now.



chrisdrop said:


> You guys (@Karnicopia & @leftside) inspired a fun detour looking for sets from London clubs. This is close (via Fabric) and I've been am sat here enjoying it now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When I was shopping on Amazon recently it suggested that record and I picked it up, really digging it and I love them in general. Kingdoms in Color is just stunning and Portraits (Home) was one of the first songs I put on after getting the amp set up.


----------



## audiofest2018

2359glenn said:


> I am still well.
> After working 7 days for weeks they are closing down permanently. After possibly exposing us to this lay us off so we have no insurance.
> Could say allot of things that I can't post here.
> Did find new Jobs for more money but 3hrs away. have to find a new house not so easy now with many real estate company's closed.
> Don't want to move but no choice. To much junk to move will have to through out 100s of tubes most TV tubes.


Sorry to hear that Glenn.  I am glad you find a new job with better pay.  Not sure how far you are moving away from where you are now but if it closer to me and there is anything I can help let me know.


----------



## jmac1516

2359glenn said:


> I am still well.
> After working 7 days for weeks they are closing down permanently. After possibly exposing us to this lay us off so we have no insurance.
> Could say allot of things that I can't post here.
> Did find new Jobs for more money but 3hrs away. have to find a new house not so easy now with many real estate company's closed.
> Don't want to move but no choice. To much junk to move will have to through out 100s of tubes most TV tubes.


That really stinks Glenn.  Being forced to move sucks, but once you settle, I hope it turns out to be a positive move for you.


----------



## chrisdrop

2359glenn said:


> I am still well.
> After working 7 days for weeks they are closing down permanently. After possibly exposing us to this lay us off so we have no insurance.
> Could say allot of things that I can't post here.
> Did find new Jobs for more money but 3hrs away. have to find a new house not so easy now with many real estate company's closed.
> Don't want to move but no choice. To much junk to move will have to through out 100s of tubes most TV tubes.


I am sorry you are suffering. I think I speak on everyone's behalf when I say; our thoughts are with you and if there is anything anyone can do, we would love to.


----------



## chrisdrop

JazzVinyl said:


> GEC's!! Wow! Are they designated L63's Or 6J5's?



I believe they are pre-1945, labelled 6J5 (via Billington a few months back). There was some back/ forth with @leftside and @gibosi a few months back helping date them. I think these are the same.

The other day, @mordy suggested the EL32s had a different impact with different input tube partners. For some reason, with these GECs, the combo really rocks. With other tubes, the EL32s added something, but this combo _really_ shows their value. 

Yesterday, my experiments (basically all day!) were keeping the EL32s and rotating other drivers At some point, I also removed the EL32s to try to isolate their contributions. Fun times  I am not sure I will be mixing the current setup for some days.


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> I am still well.
> After working 7 days for weeks they are closing down permanently. After possibly exposing us to this lay us off so we have no insurance.
> Could say allot of things that I can't post here.
> Did find new Jobs for more money but 3hrs away. have to find a new house not so easy now with many real estate company's closed.
> Don't want to move but no choice. To much junk to move will have to through out 100s of tubes most TV tubes.



I’m sorry to hear about your company Glenn. I’m glad you found a better job with better pay, and yes, moving is never fun unless you’re young and inexperienced with it.


----------



## leftside

chrisdrop said:


> You guys (@Karnicopia & @leftside) inspired a fun detour looking for sets from London clubs. This is close (via Fabric) and I've been am sat here enjoying it now:


The last time I was at Fabric was 23 years ago! The London online club I was listening with last night were still going strong when I went to bed at 10:45pm my time (6:45am London time!). It was a lot of fun in the chat room - made some new online friends.


----------



## maxpudding

2359glenn said:


> I am still well.
> After working 7 days for weeks they are closing down permanently. After possibly exposing us to this lay us off so we have no insurance.
> Could say allot of things that I can't post here.
> Did find new Jobs for more money but 3hrs away. have to find a new house not so easy now with many real estate company's closed.
> Don't want to move but no choice. To much junk to move will have to through out 100s of tubes most TV tubes.



What horrible time they choose to let you guys go, this is beyond words. Truly sorry to hear this. Let us know if we could help, Glenn.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> I am still well.
> After working 7 days for weeks they are closing down permanently. After possibly exposing us to this lay us off so we have no insurance.
> Could say allot of things that I can't post here.
> Did find new Jobs for more money but 3hrs away. have to find a new house not so easy now with many real estate company's closed.
> Don't want to move but no choice. To much junk to move will have to through out 100s of tubes most TV tubes.


Sorry to hear that Glenn. I can confirm that the housing market is nearly dry at the moment. I hope that everything works out for the best for you.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Chrisdrop...
> 
> I had to take off the HP and go get a hand towel...to wipe off the drool from looking at your beautiful GEC's!!  Wow! Are they designated L63's  Or 6J5's?
> 
> ...


Hi JV,
Dug into my pile of shoe boxes and took out the following tubes:




You guessed it: A pair of RCA 12J5, a pair of Mullard EL32 and a pair of TS 5998.
Sounds very good, but need time to be able to compare with my ATM favorite - KR6N7/6J7 and Syl/Mul 4x6080. 
But wait:
Full bodied, dynamic, detailed and more energy efficient - 5.7A vs 11.4A or exactly half of the previous tube complement. Maybe I can save even more energy if I don't leave the fans on....And I can leave the volume at the same setting as before - plenty volume.
Previously I did not like the RCA 12J5 but in this combination they sound very good - just goes to show how important synergy is. And also never to dismiss a tube - you never know when it might get it's place in the spotlight......


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> Dug into my pile of shoe boxes and took out the following tubes:
> 
> You guessed it: A pair of RCA 12J5, a pair of Mullard EL32 and a pair of TS 5998.
> ...



Hello Mordy!

I was going to mention that the 12J5/EL32/5998 runs nice and cool,   While I do also love 6N7/6J7 and Quad of 6080, they run quite HOT in my amp.  I am talking heat that seems to be inside, under the top deck.

I am really enjoying the 12J5/EL32/5998 roll currently, and am delighted at the additional advantage of a much cooler running amp.

Hope all are staying safe and staying well...!!!

Cheers!


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> I am still well.
> After working 7 days for weeks they are closing down permanently. After possibly exposing us to this lay us off so we have no insurance.
> Could say allot of things that I can't post here.
> Did find new Jobs for more money but 3hrs away. have to find a new house not so easy now with many real estate company's closed.
> Don't want to move but no choice. To much junk to move will have to through out 100s of tubes most TV tubes.



So the new bosses ended up not being better than the old after all.  I hope everything works out.  What a rough time to have to move.


----------



## gibosi

If anyone is interested in Raytheon 5694, this might be a good deal:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/143573192958


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> If anyone is interested in Raytheon 5694, this might be a good deal:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/143573192958



Snagged!  Thank you, g...!!!

After years and years of waiting, thanks to gibosi...I will finally get to use my 5694 to 6SN7 adapter!

A very very uncommon tube, these days!

Thanks again, @gibosi !!!


----------



## mordy (Apr 6, 2020)

Curious to know how the US made ECC31 sounds!
"Electrically similar to 6N7G, with separate cathodes."


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Snagged!  Thank you, g...!!!
> 
> After years and years of waiting, thanks to gibosi...I will finally get to use my 5694 to 6SN7 adapter!
> 
> ...



Yes a very uncommon tube for the lowest price I've seen in years.

Glad to be of service.


----------



## saadi703

@2359glenn I hope that you are well. I have just made my first ever account on head-fi only to send you message (PM was the first thing that I did after making the account) to get the Glen OTL Amp. I have recently heard great things about your amp and I was wondering whether you can build one for me. I want to use it with my HD800s and I am planning to buy ZMF Verite in the future. So I will be using the amp with these two headphones and probably with my Hifiman Arya as well. I am a total noob when it comes down to tube amps but I know my sound preference that I want out of my HD800s. I want big sound stage, layering, imaging and more warmer and fuller sound (which is currently missing) our of my HD800s. Looking forward to hear from you.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 6, 2020)

Hi guys, I think I've mentioned this before, but myself as well as basically everybody who has tried the straight vs. curved / small bottle shaped EL32 agrees that the curved ST ones are the best. They generally sound more organic, lifelike and with perhaps better soundstage, however the Mullard & Marconi straight versions do seem to actually have an edge when it turns when it comes to PRaT with their handling of rhythmic music, so just a heads up if you want to keep an eye out for any of those which are the true original gems of the EL32 type. YMMV with a Glenn amp though.

One good way to find them is to sign up for an alert once they become available from HiFishark.com


----------



## 2359glenn

saadi703 said:


> @2359glenn I hope that you are well. I have just made my first ever account on head-fi only to send you message (PM was the first thing that I did after making the account) to get the Glen OTL Amp. I have recently heard great things about your amp and I was wondering whether you can build one for me. I want to use it with my HD800s and I am planning to buy ZMF Verite in the future. So I will be using the amp with these two headphones and probably with my Hifiman Arya as well. I am a total noob when it comes down to tube amps but I know my sound preference that I want out of my HD800s. I want big sound stage, layering, imaging and more warmer and fuller sound (which is currently missing) our of my HD800s. Looking forward to hear from you.



Sent you a PM.
I have the same headphones but mostly use the Verite now.


----------



## saadi703

2359glenn said:


> Sent you a PM.
> I have the same headphones but mostly use the Verite now.


Thanks


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Hi guys, I think I've mentioned this before, but myself as well as basically everybody who has tried the straight vs. curved / small bottle shaped EL32 agrees that the curved ST ones are the best. They generally sound more organic, lifelike and with perhaps better soundstage, however the Mullard & Marconi straight versions do seem to actually have an edge when it turns when it comes to PRaT with their handling of rhythmic music, so just a heads up if you want to keep an eye out for any of those which are the true original gems of the EL32 type. YMMV with a Glenn amp though.
> 
> One good way to find them is to sign up for an alert once they become available from HiFishark.com


If you are interested in the straight glass Mullard EL32 they are available from Langrex (yitry) on eBay for less than $5 each.
The sharks are charging $249 for a quad of ST shape Mullard EL32.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> If you are interested in the straight glass Mullard EL32 they are available from Langrex (yitry) on eBay for less than $5 each.
> The sharks are charging $249 for a quad of ST shape Mullard EL32.



I also know some folks who said the curved glass EL32's had noises the straight glass ones didn't and had problems with microphonics (also not present in the straight glass ones). 

Also have a feeling that  the Glenn doing a 'driver triplet' using EL32's is probably sounds VaStLy different than any other amp depending on EL32 as the only drivers....?

I paid almost double your price, @mordy at $9.00 ea


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I also know some folks who said the curved glass EL32's had noises the straight glass ones didn't and had problems with microphonics (also not present in the straight glass ones).
> 
> Also have a feeling that  the Glenn doing a 'driver triplet' using EL32's is probably sounds VaStLy different than any other amp depending on EL32 as the only drivers....?
> 
> I paid almost double your price, @mordy at $9.00 ea


https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL32-CV105...224426?hash=item3cb6d18dea:g:JFQAAOSw7Kldep3F
Probably you included the shipping that I omitted in the quote....


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Yes a very uncommon tube for the lowest price I've seen in years.
> 
> Glad to be of service.



Yes, thanks again, gibosi!  Can't wait to get the 5694.  As @mordy says, saw on RadioMuseum that it's predecessor was the 6N7 - a tube I love, so this should be exciting


----------



## mordy

We all have different taste - just listened to five versions of Los Blues Del Burrico; all from 1926.

Anyhow, all in the interest of science lol - checking out JV's combo of 12J5/EL32/5998.
Yesterday I thought the sound was was too thick in the lower mid range, but today I don't have that impression. The RCA 12J5 tubes are new, whereas the Mullard EL32 and the Tung Sol 5998 are burned in - maybe the RCAs are changing, which may may account for my differing impression. Or maybe I am just getting used to the sound.
But there is a mid range quality that I can only describe as "over ripe" if that makes sense.
Work in progress, and very enjoyable. Not ready yet to come out with a verdict of how this combo sounds...
Have fun!


----------



## leftside (Apr 6, 2020)

Thanks to the recommendations on here I tried out the red metal 5693 tube tonight. It's a great sounding tube. If I had to describe the sound signature, I'd describe it as somewhere between a 6J5 and a C3g. Definitely a worthy addition to my amp.

Anyone used the TungSol double header of TS 5998 + TS metal base 6J5 (or BGRP 6SN7) in the GOTL? That's certainly a pairing to rock out to in my amp! I think I slightly prefer the ladder plate metal base TS 6J5 over the metal base rounded plates, but more listening required.

I've had no noises with the curved/coke bottle EL32 I bought from Martin Billington in the C3g sockets with adapters. I'll have to dig those out again...


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> I also know some folks who said the curved glass EL32's had noises the straight glass ones didn't and had problems with microphonics (also not present in the straight glass ones).



I have some Philips Miniwatt curved bottle EL32's and they are both noisy and microphonic.  Don't breathe too close to them or you'll hear noise, and forget about changing the volume on the GOTL (stepped attenuator) while they are in, that's painful to listen to.  @JazzVinyl sent me a pair of the Mullard EL32's from Langrex and they are way better.  Thanks again JV, you're awesome.


----------



## JazzVinyl

GDuss said:


> I have some Philips Miniwatt curved bottle EL32's and they are both noisy and microphonic.  Don't breathe too close to them or you'll hear noise, and forget about changing the volume on the GOTL (stepped attenuator) while they are in, that's painful to listen to.  @JazzVinyl sent me a pair of the Mullard EL32's from Langrex and they are way better.  Thanks again JV, you're awesome.



Your welcome Greg!  I love the look of the curved glass Philips miniwatt EL32 and placed an order for 2x from a UK seller. (not Billings or Langrex).

And what do you think arrived at my door sometime later?  2x Mullard straight bottle EL32 that sell for a fraction of the curved bottle EL32's!  I emailed the seller (she has a web site) but she never replied or acknowledged the switch.  They are indeed the pair I sent you, @GDuss!!

But after hearing about your problems with the Philips....guess it all worked out.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> We all have different taste - just listened to five versions of Los Blues Del Burrico; all from 1926.
> 
> Anyhow, all in the interest of science lol - checking out JV's combo of 12J5/EL32/5998.
> Yesterday I thought the sound was was too thick in the lower mid range, but today I don't have that impression. The RCA 12J5 tubes are new, whereas the Mullard EL32 and the Tung Sol 5998 are burned in - maybe the RCAs are changing, which may may account for my differing impression. Or maybe I am just getting used to the sound.
> ...



Hello Mordy!

Did you try one version of "Los Blues Del Burrico" w/o then with EL32's via HP's?

It looked like your RCA 12J5's had round-ish plates?  Mine have ladder plates....just curious.

I do think the EL32's in driver triplet add thickness to the soundstage.  For me, it also adds to the clarity and "importance" to tiny details.   
I don't hear mine as 'over ripe' in the mids, but maybe the cans (or speakers for you) make a large difference, too.

Senn HD580's definitely dig EL32 in driver triplet duty.

Cheers!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Thanks to the recommendations on here I tried out the red metal 5693 tube tonight. It's a great sounding tube. If I had to describe the sound signature, I'd describe it as somewhere between a 6J5 and a C3g. Definitely a worthy addition to my amp.
> 
> Anyone used the TungSol double header of TS 5998 + TS metal base 6J5 (or BGRP 6SN7) in the GOTL? That's certainly a pairing to rock out to in my amp! I think I slightly prefer the ladder plate metal base TS 6J5 over the metal base rounded plates, but more listening required.
> 
> I've had no noises with the curved/coke bottle EL32 I bought from Martin Billington in the C3g sockets with adapters. I'll have to dig those out again...



Not heard of the red metal 5693, LS...it works in the 6J5 adapter?  Description sounds very interesting!


----------



## mordy

The 5693 pentode is a long life version of the 6SJ7 and the pinout does not seem to match the 6J7.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Langrex has some interesting 6J5's:

https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/6j5gt-hitachi-metal-base-nos-boxed-valve-tube-lc65/

.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Mordy!
> 
> Did you try one version of "Los Blues Del Burrico" w/o then with EL32's via HP's?
> 
> ...


Only listening with all five tubes - I do like the sound and it is growing on me.
My RCA 12J5 tubes are ladder plates from February 1949. I also have Sylvania and National Union 12J5. They are all glass, but I have seen a GE all metal 12J5.
I found that I had to change headphones from my Sennheiser HD250/650 to the Beyerdynamic T1 to get better sound with these tubes.
I have Tung Sol glass and metal tubes from the 6J5 family - will see if I can find time to try the 5998 with these.


----------



## leftside (Apr 7, 2020)

mordy said:


> Only listening with all five tubes - I do like the sound and it is growing on me.
> My RCA 12J5 tubes are ladder plates from February 1949. I also have Sylvania and National Union 12J5. They are all glass, but I have seen a GE all metal 12J5.
> I found that I had to change headphones from my Sennheiser HD250/650 to the Beyerdynamic T1 to get better sound with these tubes.
> I have Tung Sol glass and metal tubes from the 6J5 family - will see if I can find time to try the 5998 with these.


I see I also have TS 6J5G coke bottle. Forgot about those.... Will have to do a TS 6J5G vs TS 6J5GT black ladder plate vs TS 6SN7 BGRP vs vs TS 6SL7 vs TS 12SL7 vs TS 12SN7


----------



## chrisdrop

I've been using the Mullard via-Langrex EL32s. The chat here reminded me that I thought I had another pair of EL32s in the cupboard (via Billington I believe).





Some info here. The article suggests it may be a 1930s valve, but I can't find any date codes on the tubes (and the pictured valve is labelled Marconi, not GE - they aren't identical). Do the markings on the _box_ (Feb 1/45) mean anything date-wise?

The boxes say Marconi, but the base says GE. Was it rebranded GE, manufactured by Marconi?

I think the other EL32s are just about burned in. In the next few days, I'll muster the energy to give these a go from new.

I am enthusiastic that some other new tubes are inbound. I haven't had a batch in since the excitingly good GE 6C5s ~6-weeks back and a proper "batch" has been a few months. While here in listening-land at home, more rolling!


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> I've been using the Mullard via-Langrex EL32s. The chat here reminded me that I thought I had another pair of EL32s in the cupboard (via Billington I believe).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi cd,
Nice looking tube! The Marconi company was a British company that established a strong presence in Canada. My guess is that Canadian GE made this tube for Marconi Canada.
The EL32 first appeared in 1938, and the military version VT52 in 1940. Your tube was made on January 1945.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Only listening with all five tubes - I do like the sound and it is growing on me.
> My RCA 12J5 tubes are ladder plates from February 1949. I also have Sylvania and National Union 12J5. They are all glass, but I have seen a GE all metal 12J5.
> I found that I had to change headphones from my Sennheiser HD250/650 to the Beyerdynamic T1 to get better sound with these tubes.
> I have Tung Sol glass and metal tubes from the 6J5 family - will see if I can find time to try the 5998 with these.



Interesting about the Beyer T-1's Mordy....

Both my Senn 580's and Beyer DT-990 like this combo.  Usually it is "one or the other" for any particular roll...


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> I see I also have TS 6J5G coke bottle. Forgot about those.... Will have to do a TS 6J5G vs TS 6J5GT black ladder plate vs TS 6SN7 BGRP vs vs TS 6SL7 vs TS 12SL7 vs TS 12SN7



That will keep you out of trouble for a while, LS...!!


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 7, 2020)

Keeping it simple with the GOTL, Atty, and afternoon delight.
Listening to Santana Live At The Fillmore 1968




Two different construction 5998 tubes, one is  twin rectangle getters and one is bottom side getter
Both test close to the same , they make a great set. Pitch black back round in both photos


----------



## chrisdrop

.. I think I have just tube binge-bought. Is this hoarding?  
I mean, I am just sat here and they are so cheap! 

2x 6J7MG Visseaux (ping'd around here already I think)
2x KenRad VT-94 (6J5)
2x RCA 6C5 (beachball logo)
2x RCA VT-65 (6C5) (beachball logo)
... and 2x Phillips EL3N 

They have not arrived, but here are the pix...


----------



## mordy

As long as you aren't hoarding trailer loads of face-masks I cannot see anything wrong in buying a lot of inexpensive tubes - cheap thrills lol....
You can get a lot of the all metal tubes for the price of one GEC 6AS7.
Here is a current offer from a banged up seller:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/a1834-tube...814404?hash=item3b3b59d8c4:g:6pkAAOSwKtBdsXdm

I probably have 30-40 or more of the 6C5-6J5 families and around 10 of the EL3N. All in all probably close to 700 tubes or more but around half of them are cheap 6AK5 type tubes from my Little Dot days.
Back then there was a British chap that had over 7000 tubes but I lost touch with him. He bought them a long time ago when they were very cheap - bet there are some great finds in that stash.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Keeping it simple with the GOTL, Atty, and afternoon delight.
> Listening to Santana Live At The Fillmore 1968
> 
> 
> ...


Joe - enjoy your imperial stout 
Feels like ages since I had one... probably a month ago...


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> .. I think I have just tube binge-bought. Is this hoarding?


No! We are collectors. Not hoarders!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> .. I think I have just tube binge-bought. Is this hoarding?
> I mean, I am just sat here and they are so cheap!
> 
> 2x 6J7MG Visseaux (ping'd around here already I think)
> ...



Looks great!!!  Love RCA's and can't wait to get the sonic report on the Visseaux 6J7MG's!!

.


----------



## chrisdrop (Apr 8, 2020)

This looks like a steal. Tempting, but maybe one of you would like more than I?

EDIT: not 'buy it now' but auction. Still perhaps interesting. 

Also for winning auctions, I hope you all use Gixen.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I have owned the Visseaux 6J5MG (metal can version of the 6J5G), they are very nice tubes, internals are identical to the more rare and expensive Visseaux 6J5G (shouldered).  I haven't experimented with triode-strapped 6J7s, but if they are comparable in sound to their 6J5 brethren, those Visseaux 6J7s should be very nice sounding tubes.


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 8, 2020)

Just a question guys.  What does the value on the left and right of / mean?

Sometimes the listing would say 1200/1400 or 1250/1250

Is this the left and right channel strength values?  What do they mean?  

There is no standard value for NOS right?  It's all relative to the test kit's relative good value score and varies testkit to testkit?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Apr 8, 2020)

SilverEars said:


> Just a question guys.  What does the value on the left and right of / mean?
> 
> Sometimes the listing would say 1200/1400 or 1250/1250
> 
> ...



The values on the left and right can be two different things.  Either the measured value for each half of a dual-triode tube, or sometimes it is the measured value in the numerator over the expected NOS value in the denominator.  For example, a tube that tests 1500/2000 will be 75% of nominal value, if the seller is listing it as a fraction.  You can always ask the seller.

Correct, you are most commonly going to find three different value ranges, although there can be more.

Numbers like you listed above are likely a measurement of a tubes transconductance.  Tube testers that test transconductance are the most advanced and test the tube most similarly to how it would be used in a circuit.  The nominal value will be specific to the tube under test, check the tester's manual for minimum expected value or the tube datasheet (manual is better since transconductance is not truly constant and the tester will use specific test parameters).  The Amplitrex AT1000 electronic tester is the Rolls Royce of testers, it will give mutual conductance and plate current values.

Another type of value you will see might be in the 40-80 range.  These are the TV7 type Hickok transconductance testers.  They test a tube like above, but use their own normalized range of "good" values.  NOS tubes tested by a TV7 will have a value around 70, you can check the TV7 manual for tube specifics.

Lastly, you will often see percentages listed, "95%" or "110%".  These are emission testers, they test a tube's cathode emission by basically operating the tube as a diode with a specific plate voltage.  Not as telling as a transconductance tester, but will give you an idea of the tube's usability and remaining lifespan.

There are other oddball testers used out there, but these are the most common values you will see on eBay.  None of it is standardized.


----------



## chrisdrop (Apr 8, 2020)

Will 12J7GTs work via the EL32 adapters in the C3G slots? I think the C3G slots only ever get 6v, regardless of 6/12/25v switch settings, so assuming not.

Also, I am tempted by these RCA 6AS7Gs. 2 sets of 2 are doable presently and I have no 6AS7Gs, and I won't buy the Ferrari ones discussed early. Any opinions on these?

EDIT: The RCA 6AS7Gs are used, so that is probably a no.


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 8, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> The values on the left and right can be two different things.  Either the measured value for each half of a dual-triode tube, or sometimes it is the measured value in the numerator over the expected NOS value in the denominator.  For example, a tube that tests 1500/2000 will be 75% of nominal value, if the seller is listing it as a fraction.  You can always ask the seller.
> 
> Correct, you are most commonly going to find three different value ranges, although there can be more.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the response.  I search Google, but there were no uniform answer to this question.  I was wondering if there are any webpages that details what you have stated in regards to left and right values of '/' because I fail to find any besides people asking in forums. And that didn't put out anything definitive. I take it that there is no tube testing standard is why it is the way it is.

Usually the tube listing will state what '/' value is minium good. In this case, what is the value on the left and right of '/' mean?  I have usually seen Hickok tests that put out values around the 1000s, but other type of test putting out values in the 40-80 range.

From what I understand Hickok tests are the ones usually recommend for better accuracy.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Apr 8, 2020)

SilverEars said:


> Thank you for the response.  I search Google, but there were no uniform answer to this question.  I was wondering if there are any webpages that details what you have stated in regards to left and right values of '/' because I fail to find any besides people asking in forums. And that didn't put out anything definitive. I take it that there is no tube testing standard is why it is the way it is.
> 
> Usually the tube listing will state what '/' value is minium good. I have usually seen Hickok tests that put out values around the 1000s, but other type of test putting out values in the 40-80 range.



Yes, I explained that in my post.  It's unlikely you are going to find webpages devoted to how eBay sellers are listing the parameters.  To understand, you have to learn a little bit about how these tubes are being tested, what is being measured.

http://tone-lizard.com/tube-testers/
http://www.tungsol.com/html/faqs7.html

The "minimum good" values are from the tube tester manuals.  If the seller states the type of tester used, you can Google "X tester tube data" or "X tester manual" and try to find a scanned copy of the tube test parameters, they are quite common online.  Then find the tube that is being sold in the listing and find its "minimum good" value in the document.  But note, the minimum good is the minimum value where the tube is functional, really you should be looking for tubes that test NOS for longevity.  Minimum good values are typically 65% of the nominal value.  So if the minimum good value in the manual of a tube is 4000umhos, the NOS spec would be 4000/0.65 = 6150.  As I said, for a TV7 series tester, that will be typically around 60-70.  Minimum value for most tubes on a TV-7 is 40, but consult the tube data for the tester.

TV-7 series tube data: https://frank.pocnet.net/instruments/Military_us/TV7/TB-11-6625-274-12.1.pdf

For values in the 1000s, search for the manual of the tester to find minimum values or average values, how they list them is dependent on the tester type.  Again, it is not standardized so you have to do your homework for the tester being used, unless it is an emission tester, which will list the values as a percentage across the board.


----------



## jmac1516

L0rdGwyn said:


> I have owned the Visseaux 6J5MG (metal can version of the 6J5G), they are very nice tubes, internals are identical to the more rare and expensive Visseaux 6J5G (shouldered).  I haven't experimented with triode-strapped 6J7s, but if they are comparable in sound to their 6J5 brethren, those Visseaux 6J7s should be very nice sounding tubes.


Can the 6J7 tubes be used in the 6SN7 socket with an adapter (i.e. with dual CJ5 to 6SN7 adapter)?  On the GOTL Tube Compatibility Table it shows in the C3g driver section.


----------



## Xcalibur255

To add to this a bit, one of the reasons different sellers report readings in different formats is going to be due to the type of tube tester they are using.  Some report tube life in a percentage, some report a transconductance value (not all tube testers are transconductance testers), some an emission value.  An AT1000 will even give you the plate current values.  There was no one standard or method.  So a seller will usually be working in whatever format that matches the function of their tester.


----------



## mordy

jmac1516 said:


> Can the 6J7 tubes be used in the 6SN7 socket with an adapter (i.e. with dual CJ5 to 6SN7 adapter)?  On the GOTL Tube Compatibility Table it shows in the C3g driver section.


It appears to me that you could use  pair of 6J7 tubes in the 6SN7 socket but it requires a custom made adapter that is not available commercially. The 6C/J5 do not have the same pinout as the 6J7.
You could ask Deyan of the feasibility to make a dual 6J7 to 6SN7 adapter.
The C3g is a pentode and so is the 6J7 and this would make it preferable to use it in the C3g sockets (with the special adapter) according to Glenn.


----------



## jmac1516

mordy said:


> It appears to me that you could use  pair of 6J7 tubes in the 6SN7 socket but it requires a custom made adapter that is not available commercially. The 6C/J5 do not have the same pinout as the 6J7.
> You could ask Deyan of the feasibility to make a dual 6J7 to 6SN7 adapter.
> The C3g is a pentode and so is the 6J7 and this would make it preferable to use it in the C3g sockets (with the special adapter) according to Glenn.


Got it.  Thanks.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Will 12J7GTs work via the EL32 adapters in the C3G slots? I think the C3G slots only ever get 6v, regardless of 6/12/25v switch settings, so assuming not.
> 
> Also, I am tempted by these RCA 6AS7Gs. 2 sets of 2 are doable presently and I have no 6AS7Gs, and I won't buy the Ferrari ones discussed early. Any opinions on these?
> 
> EDIT: The RCA 6AS7Gs are used, so that is probably a no.


Re the 12J7 tubes, they will not work in the C3g sockets since the voltage is set to 6.3V, just as you surmised.
The RCA 6AS7G tubes are warm sounding but they don't seem to get much love - if you want them you could get them for around half the price (in the US) of the offer you posted. I have maybe 5 of them but they don't get much use so far. It is interesting that almost any US brand of the ST type 6AS7 were made by RCA, but other brands sell for more usually. It also occurs to me that the Russian 6H13C with variants was modeled on this tube, especially since Svetlana bought RCA made factory equipment in the late 30's.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Looks great!!!  Love RCA's and can't wait to get the sonic report on the Visseaux 6J7MG's!!
> 
> .


I assume the RCA 6080 rather than the 6AS7G?


----------



## mordy

SilverEars said:


> Thank you for the response.  I search Google, but there were no uniform answer to this question.  I was wondering if there are any webpages that details what you have stated in regards to left and right values of '/' because I fail to find any besides people asking in forums. And that didn't put out anything definitive. I take it that there is no tube testing standard is why it is the way it is.
> 
> Usually the tube listing will state what '/' value is minium good. In this case, what is the value on the left and right of '/' mean?  I have usually seen Hickok tests that put out values around the 1000s, but other type of test putting out values in the 40-80 range.
> 
> From what I understand Hickok tests are the ones usually recommend for better accuracy.


Hi SE,
What I am saying here is my personal opinion, and there is certainly room for other opinions:
Given the lack of standards in measuring vacuum tubes, and the possibility that a tube can measure good (by whatever tester it is being tested with) and still be a dud (noisy, emitting crackling or popping sounds, sometimes even causing damage ) I do not put too much significance to measurements.
The majority of tubes I have bought used have been good. It is rare for a tube to wear out from use - most tubes that give out seem to be from a malfunction or mishandling (sudden shorts, used the wrong way, or dropped on the floor). People have reported using tubes for 10 years and they still have some life left.
As far as I am concerned, I try to buy from reputable sources (if the price is right) and people with good feedback. In the rare cases when something went wrong I can always fall back on the eBay protection and also protection from PayPal (which can offer another layer of protection by using a credit card).
I'll rather buy from somebody selling off his grandfather's radio shop inventory than from a professional seller who many times is high priced. The tubes are the same, but there could be a very substantial price difference.
I figure like this - if somebody bothered to save the tubes for 50-70 years or more, they probably are good!


----------



## Bullpride

@2359glenn I sent you a PM with some questions and thoughts.  Look forward to hearing from you.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Got some tubes today for a project I am working on.  Very prelimary, didn't expect to buy so soon, but couldn't pass up a good deal.  Thought you all might appreciate a shiny glowy tube photo.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Got some tubes today for a project I am working on.  Very prelimary, didn't expect to buy so soon, but couldn't pass up a good deal.  Thought you all might appreciate a shiny glowy tube photo.



Just got home from a long trip to find a new house.
Nice glow from a thorated tungsten filament in a #10/801 tube.
I have these as drivers in my 300B amps


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Just got home from a long trip to find a new house.
> Nice glow from a thorated tungsten filament in a #10/801 tube.
> I have these as drivers in my 300B amps


Did you find a new place?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Just got home from a long trip to find a new house.
> Nice glow from a thorated tungsten filament in a #10/801 tube.
> I have these as drivers in my 300B amps



Yeah how'd it go?


----------



## maxpudding

2359glenn said:


> Just got home from a long trip to find a new house.
> Nice glow from a thorated tungsten filament in a #10/801 tube.
> I have these as drivers in my 300B amps



Hopefully it went well


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

2359glenn said:


> Just got home from a long trip to find a new house.
> Nice glow from a thorated tungsten filament in a #10/801 tube.
> I have these as drivers in my 300B amps


Hoping you found a new house. Stay safe & tc


----------



## whirlwind

Hope you found a place Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn (Apr 10, 2020)

Monsterzero said:


> Did you find a new place?



No not yet most were junk !
It is so important that I get there and get down machinery running that the mayor of the town is looking to find us a house now.
What a Hoot
The place will be the largest employer in this small town.


----------



## cdanguyen08

2359glenn said:


> No not yet most were junk !
> It is so important that I get there and get down machinery running that the mayor of the town is looking to find us a house now.
> What a Hoot
> The place will be the largest employer in this small town.



Hope it all works out soon Glenn, so you can finally settle in your new place.


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Got some tubes today for a project I am working on.  Very prelimary, didn't expect to buy so soon, but couldn't pass up a good deal.  Thought you all might appreciate a shiny glowy tube photo.



I dare say I am becoming too much of a bad (good?) influence on you.    Looking forward to hearing you write about these adventures.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> I dare say I am becoming too much of a bad (good?) influence on you.    Looking forward to hearing you write about these adventures.



Nonsense!  Any tube/speaker influencer is a good influence  this will be quite a long-term design though, it is rather complicated as it will be class A2...


----------



## Phantaminum

2359glenn said:


> No not yet most were junk !
> It is so important that I get there and get down machinery running that the mayor of the town is looking to find us a house now.
> What a Hoot
> The place will be the largest employer in this small town.



Sell him an amp and have him really fall in love. Sooner or latter you can become the mayor and call the town GLENNOTLVILLE


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> No not yet most were junk !
> It is so important that I get there and get down machinery running that the mayor of the town is looking to find us a house now.
> What a Hoot
> The place will be the largest employer in this small town.



Great! It sounds like they really want you there! 

Otherwise, I was going to suggest that you move to Ohio, where Whirlwind, L0rdGwyn and a bunch of other cool guys live.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Great! It sounds like they really want you there!
> 
> Otherwise, I was going to suggest that you move to Ohio, where Whirlwind, L0rdGwyn and a bunch of other cool guys live.




Yeah Ohio would be great, yourself and LOrdGwyn and myself and others.....Glenn you would be cool....just not BB King, John Lee Hooker and Willie Dixon By The Pool In Fine Ass Suits Cool


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> No not yet most were junk !
> It is so important that I get there and get down machinery running that the mayor of the town is looking to find us a house now.
> What a Hoot
> The place will be the largest employer in this small town.



We are all rooting for you Glenn!!  Hope the mayor finds you something nice, so you can move and be a big wig...a hero for getting the machinery going, and help to provide jobs!

How cool...!


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> .. I think I have just tube binge-bought. Is this hoarding?
> I mean, I am just sat here and they are so cheap!
> 
> 2x 6J7MG Visseaux (ping'd around here already I think)
> ...



I know I'm a few days late on this, but it's not too late to say I am super excited to hear what you think about the meatball RCA 6C5/6J5's.  If I remember correctly, your other RCA's of this type are much later production, so the comparison should be fun.  There is something about these early 40's metal RCA's that I enjoy.  And this has been true with 6BX7's, 6080's, 6AS7G's.  Almost certainly not the best in any particular area, but they just sound right to me.


----------



## GDuss

whirlwind said:


> Yeah Ohio would be great, yourself and LOrdGwyn and myself and others.....Glenn you would be cool....just not BB King, John Lee Hooker and Willie Dixon By The Pool In Fine Ass Suits Cool



What do you think those 3 were talking about?

It's like those classic photos from Festival Express


----------



## JazzVinyl

It arrived!

The very rare Raytheon 5694!!  And it is very nice, in beautiful condition, plays very nice!  Thanks again to @gibosi for alerting the bargain!


----------



## chrisdrop

GDuss said:


> I know I'm a few days late on this, but it's not too late to say I am super excited to hear what you think about the meatball RCA 6C5/6J5's. If I remember correctly, your other RCA's of this type are much later production, so the comparison should be fun. There is something about these early 40's metal RCA's that I enjoy. And this has been true with 6BX7's, 6080's, 6AS7G's. Almost certainly not the best in any particular area, but they just sound right to me.



Your enthusiasm for the metal-meatball (interesting image) RCAs has been an influence for sure. Can't wait to get 'em. It may be some time due to ... earth.

I have really been in love with metal GE 6C5s I got a few weeks back. If you come across 'em, grab em. Cheap and they just work for me. They are the 1st metal ones in this tube-family that have really taken me. 

That said, I am presently enjoying these Sylvania 12J5GTs.

​@GDuss - I hope your work has calmed enough for you to get some listening time.
@2359glenn - hope your house situation lands comfortably, soon, without too much more effort. 
@JazzVinyl - you need to roll in some shouldered EL32s for a full shoulder compliment. That new 5694 is quite the looker .

Happy listening all. This morning's mellow space music...


----------



## whirlwind

GDuss said:


> What do you think those 3 were talking about?
> 
> It's like those classic photos from Festival Express




Who knows, maybe debating whether they should shed their shoes and socks and roll their pant legs up so they could sit down by the pool and get their feet and legs wet.
Now that would have been a good picture!


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> It arrived!
> 
> The very rare Raytheon 5694!!  And it is very nice, in beautiful condition, plays very nice!  Thanks again to @gibosi for alerting the bargain!



It's good to know that it arrived safe and sound and is playing nice for you. 

A small question: Is the CK5694 etching on the side of the glass or on top?


----------



## jmac1516

Finally have my HP set-up put back together and added my GOTL after it sat in the box for four months!  Glenn delivered my amp while we were going through a house renovation so couldn’t use it until recently. The wait was painful but worth it.  I’m now starting to play with the amp with various tube combinations and loving every minute.  Hope everyone is managing well through your specific quarantine situation.


----------



## Celty

jmac1516 said:


> Finally have my HP set-up put back together and added my GOTL after it sat in the box for four months!  Glenn delivered my amp while we were going through a house renovation so couldn’t use it until recently. The wait was painful but worth it.  I’m now starting to play with the amp with various tube combinations and loving every minute.  Hope everyone is managing well through your specific quarantine situation.


Cannot help being J  , what a great looking amp and setup... You must be in headphone heaven!


----------



## jmac1516

Celty said:


> Cannot help being J  , what a great looking amp and setup... You must be in headphone heaven!


----------



## Bullpride

jmac1516 said:


> Finally have my HP set-up put back together and added my GOTL after it sat in the box for four months!  Glenn delivered my amp while we were going through a house renovation so couldn’t use it until recently. The wait was painful but worth it.  I’m now starting to play with the amp with various tube combinations and loving every minute.  Hope everyone is managing well through your specific quarantine situation.


Interested to know your impressions with the Atticus, as thats what I have. Definitely interested in adding one of these beautiful machines to my setup.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> It's good to know that it arrived safe and sound and is playing nice for you.
> 
> A small question: Is the CK5694 etching on the side of the glass or on top?



It's on top, Ken...


----------



## JazzVinyl

jmac1516 said:


> Finally have my HP set-up put back together and added my GOTL after it sat in the box for four months!  Glenn delivered my amp while we were going through a house renovation so couldn’t use it until recently. The wait was painful but worth it.  I’m now starting to play with the amp with various tube combinations and loving every minute.  Hope everyone is managing well through your specific quarantine situation.



Beautiful setup!  I see that Violectric V281 sitting there too!!  A very high quality SS Amp imho


----------



## JazzVinyl

Tonight's Glow is a beautiful one  



This is sounding really nice!  Cassandra Wilson, approves!

Cheers!

~~JV~~


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> It's on top, Ken...



Thanks. I have three 5694. One has the etching on the side and is dated 1954, week 24. However, the other two have the etching on top, but no date codes. Based on yours, I am inclined to believe that these two were manufactured sometime after 1954.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Thanks. I have three 5694. One has the etching on the side and is dated 1954, week 24. However, the other two have the etching on top, but no date codes. Based on yours, I am inclined to believe that these two were manufactured sometime after 1954.



Were all of them made by Raytheon?   I wonder why they went out of fashion?  The similar 6N7, so many more examples out there...

I would also say the 5694 sounds different from it's 6N7 cousin.  It is more refined, in many ways.


----------



## 2359glenn

A neat amp I am packing up today.
Other then EL3N it also takes 6J5 driver and EL34 , KT66 , KT77 , 6L6 for output no adapter needed.


----------



## cdanguyen08

2359glenn said:


> A neat amp I am packing up today.
> Other then EL3N it also takes 6J5 driver and EL34 , KT66 , KT77 , 6L6 for output no adapter needed.



Beautiful, I'm sure whomever is receiving this amp will sure be a happy camper!


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

2359glenn said:


> A neat amp I am packing up today.
> Other then EL3N it also takes 6J5 driver and EL34 , KT66 , KT77 , 6L6 for output no adapter needed.


Wow.. this one is a beaut.......


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

2359glenn said:


> A neat amp I am packing up today.
> Other then EL3N it also takes 6J5 driver and EL34 , KT66 , KT77 , 6L6 for output no adapter needed.


Detailed specs plz...


----------



## chrisdrop

Well, I have used that gorgeous new amp as inspiration to roll in these EL3Ns that arrived the other day. I had been so much enjoying the EL32 + (6 or 12)(J or C)5 combos that I was reluctant to change. 

I am letting them warm up for a while before a first listen.



Thanks @Monsterzero for the adapters, this is their maiden voyage. 

Happy listening all.


----------



## Bullpride

2359glenn said:


> A neat amp I am packing up today.
> Other then EL3N it also takes 6J5 driver and EL34 , KT66 , KT77 , 6L6 for output no adapter needed.


Man that thing is sexy.  I am jealous for sure!


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Were all of them made by Raytheon?   I wonder why they went out of fashion?  The similar 6N7, so many more examples out there...
> 
> I would also say the 5694 sounds different from it's 6N7 cousin.  It is more refined, in many ways.



Yes, only Raytheon manufactured the 5694. As it is essentially a 6N7 with separate cathodes, it is most directly comparable to Mullard's ECC32. But while the ECC32 has the same pin-out as the 6SN7, and many other octal double triodes, there was no demand for the 5694 due to Raytheon's decision to use a non-standard pin-out, and it was a failure in the marketplace.


----------



## chrisdrop

gibosi said:


> Yes I often run EL3N via adapters in the C3g sockets. And they are one of my favorite drivers.


@gibosi - thanks for the inspiration to get some of these. After seeing Glenn's new amp post today, I am enjoying these EL3Ns so far. They are only a few hours in, but they have nice bass and warmth without drowning out the uppers/ details elsewhere. I bet the EL3N amps with them as ins&outs are lovely too.

On another note, are 6AS7Gs really just shoulder-type versions of 6080s or are they otherwise different? I think I recall someone saying the 6AS7Gs may run cooler than the 6080s? I have a small quiet fan that I have to keep going to keep the temperature down with the Bendix 6080s.


----------



## maxpudding

2359glenn said:


> A neat amp I am packing up today.
> Other then EL3N it also takes 6J5 driver and EL34 , KT66 , KT77 , 6L6 for output no adapter needed.



Whoah, congrats to the person who will enjoy this beauty. With that much variation of tubes, I think I can guess who that'll be  What's the left knob for by the way?


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> A neat amp I am packing up today.
> Other then EL3N it also takes 6J5 driver and EL34 , KT66 , KT77 , 6L6 for output no adapter needed.



Outstanding! Really looking forward to hearing reports on all the possible tube rolls with this one.
Beautiful work @2359glenn.


----------



## rnros

chrisdrop said:


> Well, I have used that gorgeous new amp as inspiration to roll in these EL3Ns that arrived the other day. I had been so much enjoying the EL32 + (6 or 12)(J or C)5 combos that I was reluctant to change.
> 
> I am letting them warm up for a while before a first listen.
> 
> ...



Great tube, love the EL3Ns, definitely one of the top tier tubes.
Gotta love the GOTL having the capability to use all of these great tubes.


----------



## gibosi (Apr 12, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> On another note, are 6AS7Gs really just shoulder-type versions of 6080s or are they otherwise different? I think I recall someone saying the 6AS7Gs may run cooler than the 6080s? I have a small quiet fan that I have to keep going to keep the temperature down with the Bendix 6080s.



Electrically, the 6080 and 6AS7G are essentially the same tube. The 6080 was engineered to be more rugged and shock resistant for use in industrial and military applications. The result is a more compact bottle with a metal-wrapped base which does tend to run somewhat hotter in our amps. But Glenn designed his OTL to easily handle four 6080s or two 6336, and as long as there is adequate air flow around the amp, the extra heat isn't a problem.

So my advice is not to worry about which tubes run hotter and choose output tubes for their sonic characteristics. And by the way, the Bendix 6080's are among my favorites.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> A neat amp I am packing up today.
> Other then EL3N it also takes 6J5 driver and EL34 , KT66 , KT77 , 6L6 for output no adapter needed.



@Zachik is going to be very happy, looks great!  The EL3N are very sharp tubes, look good on blue.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Going way back, did anyone ever get around to trying the GEC A2293 in the GOTL?  If I recall correctly, @Deyan was supposed to be building a crazy adapter for someone to give them a shot, 6 tubes per channel!


----------



## chrisdrop

gibosi said:


> Electrically, the 6080 and 6AS7G are essentially the same tube. The 6080 was engineered to be more rugged and shock resistant for use in industrial and military applications. The result is a more compact bottle with a metal-wrapped base which does tend to run somewhat hotter in our amps. But Glenn designed his OTL to easily handle four 6080s or two 6336, and as long as there is adequate air flow around the amp, the extra heat isn't a problem.
> 
> So my advice is not to worry about which tubes run hotter and and choose output tubes for their sonic characteristics. And by the way, the Bendix 6080's are among my favorites.


Glenn has certainly done us some wonderful favour with these amps hasn't he?! I still can't believe how many times I have put some new combo of tubes in and thought; wow, even more goodness. Very creative, versatile and lovely. 

Since getting a quiet pair Bendix 6080s in the amp (with a 2nd pair of RCAs) I haven't been able to compel myself to take them out. I went through a few iterations to get a quiet set of 6BX7s and find them too harsh or biting, so these Bendix it is! I haven't really found anything else that I like as outputs as much. 

This guy has some high-hopes for his quad of EL3Ns ... He also has the single most expensive tube listing I have ever seen (300Bs)!


----------



## kkrazik2008

Hello All, I am hoping some of the experts on this thread would be kind enough to point to posts related to an overview of models, or perhaps recommended configurations for an entry level GOTL. It’s been challenging to parse through the thread with a very limited knowledge of tube amps. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

kkrazik2008 said:


> Hello All, I am hoping some of the experts on this thread would be kind enough to point to posts related to an overview of models, or perhaps recommended configurations for an entry level GOTL. It’s been challenging to parse through the thread with a very limited knowledge of tube amps. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.


Hi buddy,

Not an expert but I can tell you Glenn has anything & everything in his arsenal to offer you, only your imagination is a limit, these are not my words (some else's in very early posts) but understanding after my interactions with him thus far. Just to tell you below are the broad level choices:
1. A basic OTL
2. An EL3N/EL34 SET amp or GEL3N
3. A super OTL.
4. A 300B SET amp.
Now there are customization options like coupling caps, choice of transformers etc. Like I said, whatever you could imagine is an option 
Just drop a PM to @2359glenn & he will be able to give you the detail. 

Cheers


----------



## kkrazik2008

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Hi buddy,
> 
> Not an expert but I can tell you Glenn has anything & everything in his arsenal to offer you, only your imagination is a limit, these are not my words (some else's in very early posts) but understanding after my interactions with him thus far. Just to tell you below are the broad level choices:
> 1. A basic OTL
> ...


Thank you for the overview on the four types, that will help get me started for sure. Appreciate it!


----------



## Celty (Apr 12, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> A neat amp I am packing up today.
> Other then EL3N it also takes 6J5 driver and EL34 , KT66 , KT77 , 6L6 for output no adapter needed.


Well that is sweet looking. I had not seen a colored chassis with your brand lettered on it before. As a person very much in the learning mode, can you or someone describe the sonic differences in the amp topology types you build? In other words how do your OTL, 300B, and EL3N amps differ in sound? The OTL seems to be the most popular, what are the advantages?


----------



## Celty

In trying to find some answers in regard to the above I did find:

"2359glenn2016-10-16 07:13
In the long run I would like to replace the 300B amp with the EL3N amp.
Finding good 300Bs is expensive and most are crap and unstable.
EL3Ns are still cheep nobody uses them except people on the Elise thread.
This is the only amp dedicated to the EL3N all amplification is done with EL3Ns.
This amp sounds as good or better then my 2A3 headphone amp.
I built that amp before I used Lundahl transformers that might be the difference."

and:

"2359glenn2016-10-16 07:33
The 300B amp is more powerful but I don't think it sounds any better. I am using basically the same transformers just a different primary impedance
and air gap.
The EL3N amp is a much better bang for the buck."

So now I am most interested in understanding the choice between an EL3N and OTL.


----------



## GU1DO (Apr 12, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> A neat amp I am packing up today.
> Other then EL3N it also takes 6J5 driver and EL34 , KT66 , KT77 , 6L6 for output no adapter needed.


i am totally noob in tube amps so i have small question ,
i like the concept of this amp , is there a combo that suite dynamic and planer headphones with a a push of a switch with different tubes ?
or low and high Z also with a push of a switch with different tubes
something that can provide volts for dynamics and current for planers
something really powerful and can push few watts when needed
something that can be versatile for HE6/Susvara/HD800S/ADX5000/TH900/LCD2

i would love to know if that's possible ?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

@Celty for EL3N vs OTL comparisons, @whirlwind is your guy.  Or ZMF Zach.

@GU1DO to properly drive planars, best is a transformer-coupled amplifier, from Glenn that means 300B or EL3N amp.


----------



## Celty

L0rdGwyn said:


> @Celty for EL3N vs OTL comparisons, @whirlwind is your guy.  Or ZMF Zach.
> 
> @GU1DO to properly drive planars, best is a transformer-coupled amplifier, from Glenn that means 300B or EL3N amp.


Thanks, I am hopeful folk will give answers in the forum too, because I'm sure more are interested than me alone


----------



## maxpudding

This link might be helpful, courtesy of @UntilThen 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2249#post-15273830


----------



## mordy

kkrazik2008 said:


> Hello All, I am hoping some of the experts on this thread would be kind enough to point to posts related to an overview of models, or perhaps recommended configurations for an entry level GOTL. It’s been challenging to parse through the thread with a very limited knowledge of tube amps. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.


Hi kk2008,
As you know by now there is no catalog for Glenn's amps and everything is custom built to order. Basically there are three price ranges from $1000 or less up to close to $2000, depending on choices and upgrades.These are the OTL amps.
Then you have Glenn EL3N amps in different configurations that range in price from around $2500-$3000 and up, if I remember correctly.
The third tier are the 300B amps that are priced around $4500, give or take.
(All prices are only for illustrative purposes - I am not familiar with the exact prices of the different models)

Since you are asking about a basic amp, it means the GOTL amps. The simplest and least expensive configuration would have three sockets: One for a dual triode and two for output tubes and it uses a solid state rectifier (Hexfred). 
The next step would be the same amp with a fourth socket for a tube rectifier. The next step would be to have two separate sockets for single triodes plus the rectifier and output tubes - five sockets in all (or four if a solid state rectifier is used). I believe than Glenn himself is using the five socket configuration in his personal amp. 
After this you can add more sockets for more tube rolling possibilities - up to ten sockets total.
The one I have has nine sockets and a solid state HEXFRED rectifier. Six sockets are for output tubes and three for driver tubes. You could use this amp with three tubes like the simplest version, or put in tubes in all sockets + or almost anything in between - you just have to make sure that the total current draw does not exceed the capacity of the transformer which is around 13A. The possibilities of tube rolling are endless....
According to Glenn the OTL amps sound the same if the same tube configuration is used.
Hopefully the above will be of help.
PS: If there are errors in my descriptions corrections are welcome.


----------



## kkrazik2008

mordy said:


> Hi kk2008,
> As you know by now there is no catalog for Glenn's amps and everything is custom built to order. Basically there are three price ranges from $1000 or less up to close to $2000, depending on choices and upgrades.These are the OTL amps.
> Then you have Glenn EL3N amps in different configurations that range in price from around $2500-$3000 and up, if I remember correctly.
> The third tier are the 300B amps that are priced around $4500, give or take.
> ...


Hi Mordy, 
Thank you for the very clear and detailed distinctions between the models, there seems to be quite a number of different configurations within each category!
This a good amount to digest, my initial thinking is the GOTL. I will for sure have more questions, and will use the search function within the thread to narrow down my queries.  If don’t mind, I may pick your brain a bit more as I go down this road.
Many thanks again.


----------



## DecentLevi

2359glenn said:


> A neat amp I am packing up today.
> Other then EL3N it also takes 6J5 driver and EL34 , KT66 , KT77 , 6L6 for output no adapter needed.


The amp looks absolutely masterclass  like a futuristic blue candy and it must have equally mouthwatering sonic bliss. And the good news is that my 'EL Darwin' semi-similar SET amp is (said to be?) next in the queue after @Zachik  . Glenn how do you find the time during this move? What kind of timeline do you have for mine? Or should I wait until you've been settled in from the move? Feel free to reply by PM. And Zach, let us know about that knob


----------



## mordy

kkrazik2008 said:


> Hi Mordy,
> Thank you for the very clear and detailed distinctions between the models, there seems to be quite a number of different configurations within each category!
> This a good amount to digest, my initial thinking is the GOTL. I will for sure have more questions, and will use the search function within the thread to narrow down my queries.  If don’t mind, I may pick your brain a bit more as I go down this road.
> Many thanks again.


You are welcome - once you have narrowed down your choice, Glenn is your best source for information as well as the other very friendly and knowledgeable participants in this forum. 
All I can say is that I have derived countless hours of joy from listening to my Glenn OTL amp. Another aspect of the GOTL is that it is possible to get excellent sound from inexpensive tubes.


----------



## Deyan

L0rdGwyn said:


> Going way back, did anyone ever get around to trying the GEC A2293 in the GOTL?  If I recall correctly, @Deyan was supposed to be building a crazy adapter for someone to give them a shot, 6 tubes per channel!



In the end no one wanted to give it a shot.


----------



## OctavianH

During the times I was documenting myself about the GOTL and the Glenn amps I gathered a lot of information on my personal docs. Since I guess this info is useful for others, I will share it so maybe it will help others decide about ordering or at least understanding what is all about. I am not sure if this document is still actual (I am no longer updating it or search for new information) but if someone finds it useful, then why not.

In short words, even if the prices might not be updated, this was the GOTL and extras at the time I was thinking to order one:







PS: If my info is outdated or incorrect please inform me and I'll remove it. I wanted to help the people asking about specs and stuff. In the PDF are some excerpts of some posts from this thread I considered important. They do not belong to me, I just gathered them in a structured document to help me. I hope they will help the others. The credits go, of course, to the original posters, I was just a "scribe".


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Deyan said:


> In the end no one wanted to give it a shot.



That's too bad!  Pretty interesting tube for an OTL, I'm curious to know what they sound like.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

OctavianH said:


> During the times I was documenting myself about the GOTL and the Glenn amps I gathered a lot of information on my personal docs. Since I guess this info is useful for others, I will share it so maybe it will help others decide about ordering or at least understanding what is all about. I am not sure if this document is still actual (I am no longer updating it or search for new information) but if someone finds it useful, then why not.
> 
> In short words, even if the prices might not be updated, this was the GOTL and extras at the time I was thinking to order one:
> 
> ...


That is a pretty nice document you have created, quite informative.


----------



## Deyan

L0rdGwyn said:


> That's too bad!  Pretty interesting tube for an OTL, I'm curious to know what they sound like.



Oh well.....


----------



## chrisdrop

2359glenn said:


> A neat amp I am packing up today.
> Other then EL3N it also takes 6J5 driver and EL34 , KT66 , KT77 , 6L6 for output no adapter needed.


I think the EL3N amps was less to roll than the "traditional" OTLs; keep those valves in, it will sound great. This amp looks almost like 2 amps interwoven, A) EL3Ns for fixed, optimised, quality (traditional GEL3N amp) and B) another set of valves for roll-ability. Nice! Is that near to the intent?


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

maxpudding said:


> This link might be helpful, courtesy of @UntilThen
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2249#post-15273830


Nice... mine would be a culmination of what @UntilThen & @L0rdGwyn has except Lundahl trafo, hexfred & gold point attenuator. Just waiting for mine built to start. I am also considering inclusion of a DHT in the same design since I have time to work up the specs further.


----------



## JazzVinyl

OctavianH said:


> During the times I was documenting myself about the GOTL and the Glenn amps I gathered a lot of information on my personal docs. Since I guess this info is useful for others, I will share it so maybe it will help others decide about ordering or at least understanding what is all about. I am not sure if this document is still actual (I am no longer updating it or search for new information) but if someone finds it useful, then why not.
> 
> In short words, even if the prices might not be updated, this was the GOTL and extras at the time I was thinking to order one:
> 
> ...



Your document is absolutely superb, Octo!!


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 13, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> A neat amp I am packing up today.
> Other then EL3N it also takes 6J5 driver and EL34 , KT66 , KT77 , 6L6 for output no adapter needed.




Beautiful amp Glenn!
@Zachik you sir are in for quite a good time   
This amp is killer!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Look what we have this AM....



In the field, just past our back yard   

Carry on....


----------



## whirlwind

For high impedance headphones most people grab the GOTL is some form as it is a wonderful match.

For headphones that need a bit more current the GEL3N amp is great, plus you can power some efficient speakers

If you want to get the grand daddy then the 300B amp is just that.


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> I think the EL3N amps was less to roll than the "traditional" OTLs; keep those valves in, it will sound great. This amp looks almost like 2 amps interwoven, A) EL3Ns for fixed, optimised, quality (traditional GEL3N amp) and B) another set of valves for roll-ability. Nice! Is that near to the intent?


Pretty much... @whirlwind has been using KT66 (and equivalents) output tubes in his EL3N with adapters, so I figured why not add the right sockets to use those natively?
The 6J5 drivers option has been a last minute addition, driven by Glenn's recommendation and the positive experience of @L0rdGwyn and other here on the thread who kept praising 6J5 for their sound and very reasonable price and availability...


----------



## Xcalibur255

The front panel laser etching really takes the overall look to the next level.  This latest amp is indistinguishable from a professional commercial product now.  Pretty darn impressive.


----------



## chrisdrop

Zachik said:


> Pretty much... @whirlwind has been using KT66 (and equivalents) output tubes in his EL3N with adapters, so I figured why not add the right sockets to use those natively?
> The 6J5 drivers option has been a last minute addition, driven by Glenn's recommendation and the positive experience of @L0rdGwyn and other here on the thread who kept praising 6J5 for their sound and very reasonable price and availability...


Excellent. Just excellent. Exciting amp. Congrats. The 6J5 family is plentiful, inexpensive, and they generally just sound great. Solid call. I was thinking about ordering a 2nd 6J5 adapter from Deyan, just in case anything ever happened to the one that is there, I'd be sad to be 6J5-free.

On another note for today, these new EL3Ns _were_ accompanied by my stable "output base" of 2x Bendix 6080s + 2x RCA 6080s. I pulled the 2x RCAs out and I think I prefer it. The clarity increased nicely but the punch and chunk remains. I think the head stage opened up a bit even. Just the 2x Bendix seem to be doing quite a fine job on their own with these inputs. Coming from 8 tubes (2x 12J5, 2x EL32, 4x 6080), the amp seems empty!


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Excellent. Just excellent. Exciting amp. Congrats. The 6J5 family is plentiful, inexpensive, and they generally just sound great. Solid call. I was thinking about ordering a 2nd 6J5 adapter from Deyan, just in case anything ever happened to the one that is there, I'd be sad to be 6J5-free.
> 
> On another note for today, these new EL3Ns _were_ accompanied by my stable "output base" of 2x Bendix 6080s + 2x RCA 6080s. I pulled the 2x RCAs out and I think I prefer it. The clarity increased nicely but the punch and chunk remains. I think the head stage opened up a bit even. Just the 2x Bendix seem to be doing quite a fine job on their own with these inputs. Coming from 8 tubes (2x 12J5, 2x EL32, 4x 6080), the amp seems empty!


It is all in the synergy of the tubes, and it all adds up to the tube mystique.
Personally, I don’t understand how having two output tubes plays just as loud as having four, but it does (5A vs 10A).
I have a bunch of EL3N tubes and also other tubes with similar characteristics (EL6, EL11, EL12N) - looks like some exploration is in place....
On the other hand, I am very happy with the tubes I am using now (2xRCA 12J5/2xEL32/2x5998) that I don’t feel the urge to change, at least not for now.
BUT IF GOOD IS GOOD, ISN’T BETTER BETTER?
It never ends......
Oh , lest I forget, the EL3N tubes run very cool and take an extraordinary long time to burn in. That journey is very pleasant but people have reported changes in the sound up to 400 hours! But that time doesn’t mean much for a 10,000 hour tube....
Have fun!


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> The front panel laser etching really takes the overall look to the next level.  This latest amp is indistinguishable from a professional commercial product now.  Pretty darn impressive.


This piece of the project sure did take a lot of extra work behind the scenes, and extra $$$, but I think it is well worth it


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> It is all in the synergy of the tubes, and it all adds up to the tube mystique.
> Personally, I don’t understand how having two output tubes plays just as loud as having four, but it does (5A vs 10A).
> I have a bunch of EL3N tubes and also other tubes with similar characteristics (EL6, EL11, EL12N) - looks like some exploration is in place....
> On the other hand, I am very happy with the tubes I am using now (2xRCA 12J5/2xEL32/2x5998) that I don’t feel the urge to change, at least not for now.
> ...



With 4 output tubes the output voltage will be the same just more current to drive lower impedance phones.
There is only so much voltage in the power supply so the same voltage with 2 or 4 output tubes.
Unless low impedance phones are loading down the output with only 2 tubes.


----------



## Velozity

Zachik said:


> This piece of the project sure did take a lot of extra work behind the scenes, and extra $$$, but I think it is well worth it




Zachik the amp looks amazing.  Congrats!  Now I see why you were so interested in coming up with a name for it!


----------



## Celty

OctavianH said:


> During the times I was documenting myself about the GOTL and the Glenn amps I gathered a lot of information on my personal docs. Since I guess this info is useful for others, I will share it so maybe it will help others decide about ordering or at least understanding what is all about. I am not sure if this document is still actual (I am no longer updating it or search for new information) but if someone finds it useful, then why not.
> 
> In short words, even if the prices might not be updated, this was the GOTL and extras at the time I was thinking to order one:
> 
> ...


The PDF contains some great information, and is very helpful, thanks much for sharing!


----------



## Zachik

Velozity said:


> Zachik the amp looks amazing.  Congrats!  Now I see why you were so interested in coming up with a name for it!


Thanks buddy.
Also, and that came up last week by some people here - I wanted to make sure "Glenn" was there somewhere! That's a badge of honor for the amp


----------



## JazzVinyl

Zachik said:


> Pretty much... @whirlwind has been using KT66 (and equivalents) output tubes in his EL3N with adapters, so I figured why not add the right sockets to use those natively?
> The 6J5 drivers option has been a last minute addition, driven by Glenn's recommendation and the positive experience of @L0rdGwyn and other here on the thread who kept praising 6J5 for their sound and very reasonable price and availability...



How about 12J5?  Can you run those as well?


----------



## Zachik

JazzVinyl said:


> How about 12J5?  Can you run those as well?


No. Sockets are 6V only.
I can use 12J5 on my OTL with Deyan's adapter


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> No. Sockets are 6V only.
> I can use 12J5 on my OTL with Deyan's adapter


If you really want to you could use the 12V tubes with an external power supply and special adapters with leads to the power supply.....
Inelegant, but doable.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> If you really want to you could use the 12V tubes with an external power supply and special adapters with leads to the power supply.....
> Inelegant, but doable.


Nah... Got the OTL for that!


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Nah... Got the OTL for that!


I had assumed that the GOTL would be hitting the classifieds shortly,but it sounds like you plan on keeping both. Out of curiosity which headphones do you plan on using for your new stunning creation,and which for the GOTL?


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> I had assumed that the GOTL would be hitting the classifieds shortly,but it sounds like you plan on keeping both. Out of curiosity which headphones do you plan on using for your new stunning creation,and which for the GOTL?


Definitely keeping both... I am a hoarder collector!  
Likely use ZMF cans on both, planars on EL3N, cannot really think what would definitely sound better on the OTL. Different, sure, but absolutely better on OTL? hmm....   
@whirlwind Joe - from your experience owning both amps, any cans you think sound better on the OTL compared to EL3N?  I mean, the 2 amps would have different sound signature, but anything would sound only so-so (or bad) on EL3N but shine on OTL?


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 13, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Definitely keeping both... I am a hoarder collector!
> Likely use ZMF cans on both, planars on EL3N, cannot really think what would definitely sound better on the OTL. Different, sure, but absolutely better on OTL? hmm....
> @whirlwind Joe - from your experience owning both amps, any cans you think sound better on the OTL compared to EL3N?  I mean, the 2 amps would have different sound signature, but anything would sound only so-so (or bad) on EL3N but shine on OTL?




On what sounds better on what amp is really purely subjective...everybody knows that high impedance headphones sound wonderful on the GOTL amp.
They also sound wonderful on the GEL3N amp as this amp will power planars and dynamics equally well.

The GOTL will also power planar headphones with the correct tubes... @UntilThen  liked his LCD-3  with the GOTL amp and I do too, but I like them better with the GEL3N amp....the bass is not bloomy on the GEL3N, it has more control of the bass IMHO,but I also understand that a little bloom in the bass can also sound good. I just feel that the GEL3N handles the planar drivers better.

For me personally, I like my Atticus from both amps, my LCD-3 pre-fazor from both amps, but I prefer GEL3N and my Ori I prefer GEL3N.   Understand however that others may like different combos than me, this really is all subjective.
I will say that it took me a lot of listening with the GEL3N amp to appreciate it. When I owned the HD800 I preferred it with the GOTL amp.


----------



## Karnicopia (Apr 13, 2020)

I was able to do my first tube roll and picked up 2 Tung Sol 5998 (I'm mainly following L0rdGwyn's advice which hasn't led me wrong) so for now I have 2x National Union 12J5 and I replaced the 6x Sylvania 6BL7GT with the Tung Sol. These sound more quiet (but I think I never found the best 6 pair of the Sylvania's) overall I really love the sound of the Tung Sol I think them being more quiet gives more of a sense of depth and I don't feel like I lose anything. I haven't done a lot of back to back A/B ing but I did have the old tubes in for about a week and then the new tubes in for a few days and I really enjoy the added sense of depth with the lower noise/blacker background and it seems to build on everything I liked about the last setup. I have some driver tubes coming later in the week but I'm glad I get some time with one change to see what that does and we'll see how things go this weekend. I still can't get past turning the lights down and looking at them and these things are like space heaters compared to the last set, really love the sound of them.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Karnicopia said:


> I was able to do my first tube roll and picked up 2 Tung Sol 5998 (I'm mainly following L0rdGwyn's advice which hasn't led me wrong) so for now I have 2x National Union 12J5 and I replaced the 6x Sylvania 6BL7GT with the Tung Sol. These sound more quiet (but I think I never found the best 6 pair of the Sylvania's) overall I really love the sound of the Tung Sol I think them being more quiet gives more of a sense of depth and I don't feel like I lose anything. I haven't done a lot of back to back A/B ing but I did have the old tubes in for about a week and then the new tubes in for a few days and I really enjoy the added sense of depth with the lower noise/blacker background and it seems to build on everything I liked about the last setup. I have some driver tubes coming later in the week but I'm glad I get some time with one change to see what that does and we'll see how things go this weekend. I still can't get past turning the lights down and looking at them and these things are like space heaters compared to the last set, really love the sound of them.



NU 12J5's and 5998's!  It's got to be good!   But I am, a little surprised to hear that 6x 6BL7's are "noisy" for you...

.


----------



## Karnicopia (Apr 14, 2020)

JazzVinyl said:


> NU 12J5's and 5998's!  It's got to be good!   But I am, a little surprised to hear that 6x 6BL7's are "noisy" for you...
> 
> .


I didn't look into it too much but it seemed like there was a intermittent buzz with the volume increasing and decreasing and it wasn't too loud in general I didn't notice it when listening to music but I would hear it between songs (overall low volume but just more noticable) and I think while I didn't really hear it during music I more notice the lack of it when I switched out to the new tubes. I think there was probably just a tube that may have needed to be swapped out so if I play around with it a bit more I think it could be something like that but not too sure. I have 8 so I could probably put in 4 and see if I hear anything and then if so swap out to etc until I get to 6 but I haven't tried that yet. I did try and go through them all and make sure they were seated correctly when I first heard the noise but they all seemed to be good (I'm still learning though so there definitely could have been an issue with the way one was seated but it didn't seem like it).


----------



## chrisdrop

Just to confirm, still _loving_ the 2x EL3N (via C3G adapter) + (and down from 4 6080s to) just 2x Bendix 6080 combo. *Really top combo. *

I have those EL11s around somewhere, and I may just get another pair of adapters for just them after this business so far. 

It is not super quiet, but I think the EL3Ns may have 8-9k more years to burn in 

​


----------



## gibosi

chrisdrop said:


> I have those EL11s around somewhere, and I may just get another pair of adapters for just them after this business so far.



While I can't be sure, I might guess that your EL11 were manufactured by Loewe Opta, a Philips subsidiary located in Berlin.

Most Philips EL3N were manufactured in a factory located in Vienna, Austria (WIRAG). But Philips also manufactured EL11 for the German marketplace. And typically, they were manufactured by Loewe Opta, a Philips subsidiary located in Berlin. And again, even though both carry the Philips lable, tubes manufactured in different factories by different companies sound different. To my ears, WIRAG production is a bit warmer and darker than Loewe Opta.


----------



## 2359glenn

I love the sound of the EL3N you might try some other ones they are pretty cheep.
I went through several pairs find a quiet pair to ship with Zachi's amp for the drivers. Ones that are noisy as a driver are quiet 
when used as output tubes.
The EL3N is a mello sounding tube no harshness at all.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I love the sound of the EL3N you might try some other ones they are pretty cheep.
> I went through several pairs find a quiet pair to ship with Zachi's amp for the drivers. Ones that are noisy as a driver are quiet
> when used as output tubes.
> The EL3N is a mello sounding tube no harshness at all.



It can be tough to find quiet ones to run as drivers, but as you say you can use the noisy ones for outputs.
I love them because they sound so good with the volume cranked up!


----------



## DecentLevi

Got my US stimulus check today. In a moment of global crisis and uncertainty, time to spend that dough on what really matters!... wait for it... Head-fi gear of course! 
I'm about to replace my Audio-GD R-1 DAC which I found very entry level with Chord Qutest.

Disclaimer make sure you have at least some backup money as well as I do.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> I love the sound of the EL3N you might try some other ones they are pretty cheep.
> I went through several pairs find a quiet pair to ship with Zachi's amp for the drivers. Ones that are noisy as a driver are quiet
> when used as output tubes.
> The EL3N is a mello sounding tube no harshness at all.



I agree, the WIRAG EL3N is a wonderful tube and one of my all-time favorite drivers. But Philips also manufactured the EL3N (and EL11) in their Loewe Opta factory and it sounds quite different. Fortunately, the vast majority of EL3N on eBay are WIRAG, but not all of them. So if this is the one you want, be sure to look for factory code "A" in black.


----------



## Zachik

Got a big and heavy box in the mail today... wonder what's in it?





Oh cool - pool noodles. Guess I am going to the swimming pool... 
Wait, the pool is closed due to some virus going around! hmmm....    

(to be continued)


----------



## Zachik

What is it there, in between the pool noodles?





(to be continued)


----------



## cdanguyen08

Zachik said:


> What is it there, in between the pool noodles?
> 
> 
> 
> (to be continued)



Drinking morning coffee waiting for this next episode!


----------



## Zachik

The long wait is finally over!! Postman has delivered Glenn's masterpiece. YAY!


----------



## Zachik

On the kitchen table, waiting for its tubes:





What a beauty!!  Cannot take my eyes off...


----------



## maxpudding

Congratulations Zachik!


----------



## raindownthunda

That looks fantastic! Love how the case turned out. Can't wait to hear your impressions.


----------



## chrisdrop

gibosi said:


> While I can't be sure, I might guess that your EL11 were manufactured by Loewe Opta, a Philips subsidiary located in Berlin.
> 
> Most Philips EL3N were manufactured in a factory located in Vienna, Austria (WIRAG). But Philips also manufactured EL11 for the German marketplace. And typically, they were manufactured by Loewe Opta, a Philips subsidiary located in Berlin. And again, even though both carry the Philips lable, tubes manufactured in different factories by different companies sound different. To my ears, WIRAG production is a bit warmer and darker than Loewe Opta.


Unsurprisingly - according to the codes on these tubes (MS12 A3L just as your pic), and this doc, you are 100% correct, they are made in "A Wiener Radio Werke 'WIRAG', Wien". You have a wealth of tube knowledge indeed. With the added warmer RCA output tubes, the combo was too warm and thumpy. As they are now - lovely indeed. I have several other new valves in and I don't see them making an appearance anytime too soon. Instead of getting EL11 adapters, I'll get another pair of EL3Ns and see if I can find a silent pair. 

@Zachik - SO LOVELY. Congrats on the new family member. Who knew that pool noodles would come to represent such a joyful moment in life?


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Zachik said:


> On the kitchen table, waiting for its tubes:
> 
> 
> 
> What a beauty!!  Cannot take my eyes off...


It's looking much more better then the earlier pic I saw....


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> On the kitchen table, waiting for its tubes:
> 
> 
> 
> What a beauty!!  Cannot take my eyes off...




Can't wait to hear your impressions on the sound....enjoy, looks wonderful.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Can't wait to hear your impressions on the sound....enjoy, looks wonderful.


Could not test it last night but will definitely take it on a test ride today!!!


----------



## Celty

Zachik said:


> Could not test it last night but will definitely take it on a test ride today!!!


I'm sure it will be the first of so many days of enjoyment you will have with that beautiful amp!


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Unsurprisingly - according to the codes on these tubes (MS12 A3L just as your pic), and this doc, you are 100% correct, they are made in "A Wiener Radio Werke 'WIRAG', Wien". You have a wealth of tube knowledge indeed. With the added warmer RCA output tubes, the combo was too warm and thumpy. As they are now - lovely indeed. I have several other new valves in and I don't see them making an appearance anytime too soon. Instead of getting EL11 adapters, I'll get another pair of EL3Ns and see if I can find a silent pair.
> 
> @Zachik - SO LOVELY. Congrats on the new family member. Who knew that pool noodles would come to represent such a joyful moment in life?



Hey, congrats on your 500th post!!!


----------



## rnros

chrisdrop said:


> Just to confirm, still _loving_ the 2x EL3N (via C3G adapter) + (and down from 4 6080s to) just 2x Bendix 6080 combo. *Really top combo. *
> 
> I have those EL11s around somewhere, and I may just get another pair of adapters for just them after this business so far.
> 
> ...



Maybe I was lucky, both pairs of EL3Ns I tried in the GOTL were quiet. 
One pair now has considerable hours on them and I think the burn time does make a difference.
But yes, super impressive right out of the box on day one! Typically match them with TS 5998s or CT 6336Bs.


----------



## rnros

Zachik said:


> On the kitchen table, waiting for its tubes:
> 
> 
> 
> What a beauty!!  Cannot take my eyes off...



Beautiful indeed! Well done. Congrats.
Looking forward to your forthcoming impressions with tube variations, headphones, speakers... 
Expect that you are in for some outstanding explorations with that amp.


----------



## mordy (Apr 17, 2020)

rnros said:


> Maybe I was lucky, both pairs of EL3Ns I tried in the GOTL were quiet.
> One pair now has considerable hours on them and I think the burn time does make a difference.
> But yes, super impressive right out of the box on day one! Typically match them with TS 5998s or CT 6336Bs.


Have not had problems with noisy EL3N tubes and I used them extensively in my Euforia amp so they should be burned in by now.
Tonight I tried to switch the 5998 for GEC 6AS7G toghether with the 12J5/EL32 tubes, but the results were nothing special. Decided to try Chrisdrop's recipe:




2xEL3N/Bendix6080WB. The EL3N are WIRAG tubes and the graphite plate 6080 tubes are labeled Raytheon. This combination draws 6.8A and sounds very nice right away - sweet and mellow with a full, voluptuous sound, just how I remember the EL3N tubes. Strings are sweet and without any sibilance.
I am used to a little more bite in the bass but have to give these tubes time to warm up before coming to a conclusion.
Amazing how versatile this amp is!
PS: Why does the sticker on one of the EL3N tubes say OK? Well, in my Little Dot days I tried a set-up with four EL3N as output tubes and a Chinese seller (name upon request) sold me defective adapters that ruined three of the EL3N tubes and blew out one channel in the Little Dot MKIII. This tube is the only survivor - hence the sticker. But I digress.....
Rnros - tomorrow I'll plan to try the 5998 tubes and the Cetron 6336B atomic reactors with the EL3N - let's see how the sound changes.....


----------



## Zachik

rnros said:


> Beautiful indeed! Well done. Congrats.
> Looking forward to your forthcoming impressions with tube variations, headphones, speakers...
> Expect that you are in for some outstanding explorations with that amp.


Thanks! 

OK... Initial thoughts and impressions, after spending 2+ hours immensely enjoying my new toy, courtesy of Glenn... 
So far, only used the 6 x EL3N tube configuration, and Sennheiser HD600 balanced (XLR jack).
In a word: wow!    

Comparing to the OTL is almost impossible, since there are endless tube combinations there, and I have only used my EL3N for couple hours, but based on my limited experience and trying to generalize:
I think the EL3N is more refined, and much more laid back!  

Yesterday or the day before, someone asked me which headphones I would use for each. I think another relevant question is: which music (genres) would you listen to on each amp?
My *very* initial impression is that for the majority of the music I listen to (mostly rock and alternative, but also instrumental, soundtrack, unplugged) - it is a step up from the OTL. Again, with the right tubes combo, and for the right taste - maybe not. But for me, it sounded more refined and effortless. One caveat, and again IN MY OPINION - I think being laid back is not a pro for metal music. From couple tracks I sampled, Metallica still sounded great to me but Accept and Nightwish both sounded like they were slowed down by the amp (compared to OTL). After more brain (and amp) burn-in, I might change my mind! Also, gotta try other headphones (HD800, Verite, etc.)

I will repeat 1 last time... those are VERY early impressions.
But from the first song - this amp has been shining, and made my day!! 

Oh, forgot to add - with the EL3N tubes, this amp is running significantly cooler than the GOTL. So, for hot summer day - this is another advantage


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Thanks!
> 
> OK... Initial thoughts and impressions, after spending 2+ hours immensely enjoying my new toy, courtesy of Glenn...
> So far, only used the 6 x EL3N tube configuration, and Sennheiser HD600 balanced (XLR jack).
> ...


How about a picture with the tubes in place?


----------



## chrisdrop

Fresh tubes arrived from Poland today. Metal all the way! 
First set of 6J7s here.
@GDuss - finally got some RCA 6C5s with the right logo. I know you were keen on the J5s, but this is what he had!
I have to see if I can bring myself to remove these EL3Ns!?


----------



## chrisdrop

Zachik said:


> I think the EL3N is more refined, *and much more laid back!*


Hey Zachik. Again, contrats on a beauty. I wanted to try to parse something you said (bold above). "_more laid back_". What do you mean when you say that? Not trying to be a language pedant, just tying to understand. That is one of those descriptions I can never quite pin down.


----------



## chrisdrop

I hadn't come across these 7A4 tubes. Looks like loctal 6J5 (also in 12v). They don't seem very common or cheaper than 6J5s, so no reason to really make adapters, etc. The amount I don't know about tubes is truly huge!


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 17, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Thanks!
> 
> OK... Initial thoughts and impressions, after spending 2+ hours immensely enjoying my new toy, courtesy of Glenn...
> So far, only used the 6 x EL3N tube configuration, and Sennheiser HD600 balanced (XLR jack).
> ...




Yes, they are very cool running tubes and the amp runs nice and cool no problems with any kind of heat.  If your tubes are new you may need quite a few hours to burn, no worries they are rated for 10,000 hours and they will only get sounding better. Once you find a nice and quiet pair that suit your taste, mark them and keep them to use as drivers. Any that are noisy as a driver mark them as use as power tubes.
I would think that you should get great slam with 6 EL3N's in that amp.

Thanks for your first impressions, I will look forward to more....enjoy the music


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> @GDuss - finally got some RCA 6C5s with the right logo. I know you were keen on the J5s, but this is what he had!



Those look great, hopefully they sound great too.  I have multiple versions of the RCA meatball 6C5 and 6J5, military designations on each, and non-military versions as well.  To be honest, I can't really hear much of a difference between the 6C5 and 6J5, assuming everything else is equal (e.g. same manufacturer and similar year of manufacture).  I remember @mordy had some thoughts on C5 vs J5 differences, so may he has input here.  But I have been using them interchangeably and like both.


----------



## whirlwind

rnros said:


> Maybe I was lucky, both pairs of EL3Ns I tried in the GOTL were quiet.
> One pair now has considerable hours on them and I think the burn time does make a difference.
> But yes, super impressive right out of the box on day one! Typically match them with TS 5998s or CT 6336Bs.



+1 for these tubes to sound better after quite a few hours, I have had some settle down after being noisy when first putting them in, but it took some hours.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Hey Zachik. Again, contrats on a beauty. I wanted to try to parse something you said (bold above). "_more laid back_". What do you mean when you say that? Not trying to be a language pedant, just tying to understand. That is one of those descriptions I can never quite pin down.


This is my take on “laid back.” It is the opposite of “in your face.” In other words, listening to some tube combinations you feel that you are sitting right in front of the musicians or on the front row. It is intimate and direct.
Laid back is a more distant impression of the sound, like sitting further away in the middle or towards the back in a concert hall, or further away from a band playing. It is not as intense, but you get more of total impression-both have their advantages.
Don’t know if others agree with this - just my 2c......


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> This is my take on “laid back.” It is the opposite of “in your face.” In other words, listening to some tube combinations you feel that you are sitting right in front of the musicians or on the front row. It is intimate and direct.
> Laid back is a more distant impression of the sound, like sitting further away in the middle or towards the back in a concert hall, or further away from a band playing. It is not as intense, but you get more of total impression-both have their advantages.
> Don’t know if others agree with this - just my 2c......



I agree, maybe a few rows back for the vocals...also the treble has no hint of being harsh, or sibilant...for me a softer treble if you will.


----------



## Xcalibur255

After running the Lorenz C3g for half a year I switched back to Siemens last week.  Now that I have a reliable long term impression to draw comparisons against I think I can say with confidence I prefer the Lorenz.  They have their own issues, namely a softness at both ends of the spectrum and a mild FR suckout in the mids that can make some types of music sound veiled.  The bass in particular is soft compared to the Siemens.  But, the music breathes so much better through these tubes.  What I dislike about the Siemens so much is how aggressive their presentation is.  Everything is in your face, everything is front of stage.  All the notes feel smashed together and then driven into your ears with force.  I suspect this is why the Siemens work so well with 300B tubes, they naturally balance each other out, but the 45 is already a pretty fast and direct sound so it becomes too much.  There is a greatly expanded sense of space and air through the Lorenz that feels both more refined and more correct to me.

I would rather lose the speed and resolution than have the music rammed into my ears.  I think a really nice pairing would be the Lorenz with some EML 45, but man they are so expensive......

Or, the other route....... EML 45 MESH to mellow out the Siemens.......?

Somebody flip a coin for me.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> How about a picture with the tubes in place?



Here you go...


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Once you find a nice and quiet pair that suit your taste, mark them and keep them to use as drivers. Any that are noisy as a driver mark them as use as power tubes.


Glenn has been kind enough to already do that for me  
The 2 quietest tubes he tested were marked as drivers, and are being used in the right sockets!



whirlwind said:


> I would think that you should get great slam with 6 EL3N's in that amp.


Absolutely! Some bass heavy tracks I listened to had a very satisfying slam, with plenty "meat on the bones"


----------



## Zachik (Apr 17, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> Hey Zachik. Again, contrats on a beauty. I wanted to try to parse something you said (bold above). "_more laid back_". What do you mean when you say that? Not trying to be a language pedant, just tying to understand. That is one of those descriptions I can never quite pin down.


Chris - nobody here suspected you trying to be a wiseass, and it is a very good question!



mordy said:


> This is my take on “laid back.” It is the opposite of “in your face.” In other words, listening to some tube combinations you feel that you are sitting right in front of the musicians or on the front row. It is intimate and direct.
> Laid back is a more distant impression of the sound, like sitting further away in the middle or towards the back in a concert hall, or further away from a band playing. It is not as intense, but you get more of total impression-both have their advantages.
> Don’t know if others agree with this - just my 2c......





whirlwind said:


> I agree, maybe a few rows back for the vocals...also the treble has no hint of being harsh, or sibilant...for me a softer treble if you will.


I agree with both @mordy and @whirlwind
I will add to that, and that was the source for my comment about GOTL might be a better fit for Metal heads (like @Monsterzero):
Using EL3N-only tubes (have not tested 6J5 as drivers nor EL34/KT66 as output tubes, yet) - it almost feels like the amp is slowing the music just a bit. I am sure it is a way for the brain to process the different tonality, and maybe result of being several rows back from the stage, but fast metal tracks feel like you play then at 95% speed instead of 100% speed.
Again, I realize it is an illusion as the amp is not capable of changing the input audio signal's speed!! Maybe it is a matter of PRaT characteristics that causes the transients between notes to be more gradual instead of sharp transients?  Another caveat: HD600 is not a very fast headphone, so definitely need to use the Verite (open back) and re-evaluate 

Let me emphasize once again:
I truly think this amp is an upgrade to the OTL. Both are amazing amps, and at Glenn's very reasonable prices - GREAT value!

Unfortunately, got to do some work stuff now... Cannot wait for the weekend to start so I can spend as many hours with my new toy as possible.

Edit: corrected minor typo...


----------



## mordy (Apr 17, 2020)

Re tubes that sound slow - for me that is a reality. Some tubes or tube combinations lack the quick response and fast dynamics that others have. I am sure that the EL3N will improve with time but they have a mellow sound.
There is a Tung Sol 6SN7GTB Russian Reissue that I always felt was slow and syrupy. Some combinations like the RCA12J5/K-R 6J7/4x6080 have great dynamics and slam etc etc.
This morning I decided to try to get some more slam out of the 2xEL3N/2xBendix 6080WB and added a proven bass tube - the 6N7 K-R.
The following is embarrassing but needs to be said: After I put in the 6N7 in the front socket, the amp did not want to turn on. Tried again, and a faint blue light came on around the power button. At this point my slow and syrupy brain finally realized that I had activated Glenn's safety switch that doesn't allow the amp to turn on if a driver tube in the front socket has the wrong voltage....Yep, I had forgotten to change the voltage from 12V to 6V.
Threw myself on the power switch and was hoping that the military spec VT-96 K-R tube didn't burn out. Luckily it survived - I made a mental note to ALWAYS check (and reset) the voltage switch to 6V when taking something out of the front socket.
So how is this combination working out? Well, the K-R bass monster KO d the laid back mellow EL3N and took over with plenty of low frequency bass slam - I think Zachik would approve for the fast metal tracks...
Some of the sweetness is gone, traded for a harder edge. How do you like your ice cream? Vanilla, Strawberry or Jalapeno?


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Re tubes that sound slow - for me that is a reality. Some tubes or tube combinations lack the quick response and fast dynamics that others have. I am sure that the EL3N will improve with time but they have a mellow sound.
> There is a Tung Sol 6SN7GTB Russian Reissue that I always felt was slow and syrupy. Some combinations like the RCA12J5/K-R 6J7/4x6080 have great dynamics and slam etc etc.


Thanks for the confirmation re: some tubes DO sound slow 
My only comment on mordy's message quoted above: the EL3N does NOT (to my ears) sound syrupy, just *a little* slow for certain music types (Metal mostly). Change is not a showstopper, but enough for my brain to say: what is going on? Why does it not sound like what I expect it to?


----------



## mordy

I am sure that this will improve with use.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 17, 2020)

Yup my experience with the EL3N's have shown a great organic tone, somewhat lush / euphonic yet also quite laid back and with soft treble. I'd definitely recon a good KT66 or EL34 as powers along with 6J5 drivers may tighten the PRaT up a little, as well as bring more details into focus. 9-pin octal drivers also do a fantastic job adding detail / clarity and speed often with super bass definition, the likes of 6N23P and 6CG7, perhaps Deyan can make you a good pair of adapters for those. EL12 would also be a superb recommendation for  compatible powers, with the right adapters for a very organic / extended / well textured sound, and even moreso with EL12 Spez, but with more speed / detail yet.

But YMMV with a Glenn Transformer Coupled SET amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Yup my experience with the EL3N's have shown a great organic tone, somewhat lush / euphonic yet also quite laid back and with soft treble. I'd definitely recon a good KT66 or EL34 as powers along with 6J5 drivers may tighten the PRaT up a little, as well as bring more details into focus. 9-pin octal drivers also do a fantastic job adding detail / clarity and speed often with super bass definition, the likes of 6N23P and 6CG7, perhaps Deyan can make you a good pair of adapters for those. EL12 would also be a superb recommendation for  compatible powers, with the right adapters for a very organic / extended / well textured sound, and even moreso with EL12 Spez, but with more speed / detail yet.
> 
> But YMMV with a Glenn Transformer Coupled SET amp.



The EL12spez would probably sound great in the SET.  I know people were using them in a OTL not getting the best out of them.
Guess I will listen to them when I build your amp DL.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 17, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> The EL12spez would probably sound great in the SET.  I know people were using them in a OTL not getting the best out of them.
> Guess I will listen to them when I build your amp DL.


Yup Glenn I hope you could get an experience of the EL12 Spez. A bit of a hurdle though is that my SET amp will have KT66 compatible octal sockets so I will use the EL12 Spez among others via adapters. I've already had these adapters made and shipped by Deyan so if you like I can ship them to you along with a few others just so you can try them directly. This may actually help you fine tube the amp as well. Let me know by PM.

Also another question I was gonna ask by PM but may as well post here: Do you recommend also having a line-out with my tube amp? Being that it will already have a powered speaker out, I'm not sure if a line-level output would have any advantages vs. simply adjusting the volume. Along with headphones I would also use it occasionally for speakers and perhaps an e-stat rig via line-out.

I've gotten kinda antsy waiting for my SET amp such a long while. After hearing Glenn has to relocate I sold off my Euforia amp, replacing it with a Quad PA One + amp for a change of flavor, not knowing when I will have my new amp. FWIW I am pleased to report that without question this amp of similar form factor (shape / size) as well as price has the Euforia beat in almost all aspects, namely far more impactful dynamics with drums that hit much harder, and improved texture. I'm just about to order another adapter or two from Deyan to try a few new flavors of other tubes on the Quad amp... unless Glenn would you say your amp will be coming relatively soon? If so then I'll hold off on that extra expenditure.


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## DecentLevi (Apr 17, 2020)

I think some of you mentioned you were looking for a good price on original ST-shaped EL32? Here is a great deal, he has 8 4 more and I don't think the seller know's how much they're worth:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL32-VACUU...ENTODE-POWER-OUTPUT-TUBE-NOS-NIB/174244802754


----------



## GDuss

So I finally took out the Sylvania 6080 quad, and put in a pair of TS 5998's, given the discussion from others lately on these tubes.  First I tried the 5998's with a pair of RCA 6J5's in the SN7 slot (using an adapter from Deyan).  Quite nice, I'd like to say this was a faster combination than the same RCA's with the 6080 quad.  Cleaner, more precise.  But good.  Then I went with a pair of RCA 6J7's in the C3g slots, and a KR 6N7 in the SN7 slot.  For me, that combination doesn't work.  There was something harsh and unpleasant about it.  That pairing worked better with the 6080 quad.  I took out the 6J7's and went with just the KR 6N7 and the 5998's.  This was better, but still not quite right.  Back to the RCA 6J5's and the 5998's.  Much more to my liking.  More natural sounding to me.  All of these changes have been over the course of several nights.  Tonight's plan was to keep the RCA 6J5's and TS 5998's but to add in the EL32's (straight bottle, that JV sent me).  Conclusion?  Now I'm happy.  I'm going to stay with this combo for a while and just enjoy it.  The band is in the room with me tonight, which I'm perfectly ok with.  The band by the way is Preservation Hall Jazz Band, one of my favorites.  Going with some NOLA music, lamenting that there will be no Jazz Fest this year . I'll need to create my own festival, with the GOTL transporting the musicians into my house.


----------



## GDuss

And by the way, this is the Jazz Fest poster for 2020:

https://art4now.com/collections/posters/products/jazz-fest-2020?variant=31506059329668

Beautiful tribute to the late Dr. John.  Anyone who is familiar with NOLA Jazz Fest will know that these posters are a big deal each year.  They're always extremely well done, generally a different artist is commissioned to do them each year, many of them from prior years have become collectible and quite expensive, but this one is particularly special.  It will be the poster from the year that Jazz Fest didn't happen.


----------



## Karnicopia (Apr 18, 2020)

I think the TS 5998 has been the goldilocks tube for me so far it does everything so well it's tough for anything to unseat it for me. The previous discussion was interesting because there are more aggressive and forward tubes where you are put right into it and it has a really dynamic sound but I love how spacious yet still dynamic the TS 5998 is it just does everything well. One thing I will say is I love how the more tubes I put in to this amp the more I appreciate how different this amp can be just loving the sound of the TS 5998 with so many different types of music (NIN to Greyarea).


----------



## chrisdrop

_Question time.. sorry, curiosity hasn't killed me yet!_

@Zachik - What were your goals/ motivators for the new amp? Power speakers? I can see with output transformers & the speaker switch, this was _a_ goal, but was it _the_ goal? Variety / "Upgrade": GEL3N variant of amp (300b-like without the 300bs!)? Clearly you wanted beauty! Novelty? Something else? Did you ask for any other specialised parts (caps, resistors, etc)? I assume the transformers are all Lundahl based on the cases. Although I am sure they are not very comparable across amps; my recent enjoyment of the EL3Ns in the GOTL even are making me jealous of your new toy (we all have weaknesses)!

@DecentLevi as you have been recently discussing, you have an amp in flight. Speakers too? Perhaps you are after specific tubes you want optionality around? After a specific sound? What other criteria are you after? Experimentation? Also, very glad to hear your new amp is outpacing the Euforia already. Between you & Hypnos1 the forum will be quiet 'round those parts. I can't believe _he_ has gone off tubes!

The design process is interesting and I'd love to hear from those of you who have gone through the more bespoke process like this with more amps regarding your goals, criteria, etc. I was lucky enough to come along and point at a well-trodden, successful amp with Glenn - the GOTL. There are of course some options, but it was not a new design by the time I rolled around. For a more bespoke design, it very well may be something as simple as "I want to play with something new cool and fun", which would absolutely make sense!

Final question (probably naive, sorry!), and maybe it is more a question fo Glenn and amp designers/engineers; is there an optimisation problem; variety/optionality in tube rolling vs tuning the amp to one set of tubes? I had understood (perhaps incorrectly) that the earlier GEL3N designs were designed to not have much tube rolling optionality, but have an amazing sound, optimised around those tubes. Perhaps that is a misunderstanding. Given the "2 sets of sockets" in this amp, it seems to open up more rolling options. Nice!

.. lots in there! Too much coffee this early Saturday morning ...



Zachik said:


> Here you go...


----------



## whirlwind

Karnicopia said:


> I think the TS 5998 has been the goldilocks tube for me so far it does everything so well it's tough for anything to unseat it for me. The previous discussion was interesting because there are more aggressive and forward tubes where you are put right into it and it has a really dynamic sound but I love how spacious yet still dynamic the TS 5998 is it just does everything well. One thing I will say is I love how the more tubes I put in to this amp the more I appreciate how different this amp can be just loving the sound of the TS 5998 with so many different types of music (NIN to Greyarea).




These are wonderful sounding power tubes, let them warm up a bit before plugging your headphones into your amp, they can be a bit finicky on start-up as they may give off a pinging sound for a bit. Then just enjoy the music.  Not many power tubes better than these. Enjoy.


----------



## Karnicopia (Apr 18, 2020)

whirlwind said:


> These are wonderful sounding power tubes, let them warm up a bit before plugging your headphones into your amp, they can be a bit finicky on start-up as they may give off a pinging sound for a bit. Then just enjoy the music.  Not many power tubes better than these. Enjoy.


Thanks that was one of the things L0rdGwyn mentioned in his guide too was to give it some time to warm up before plugging in and I kind of use the pings as a way of knowing when it's ready if I stop hearing them for a while. I also let it warm up for a long time if I have new tubes (or even if I have changed any tubes) I stay nearby and watch a bit at first it just in case anything crazy happens and then let it warm up for a while to give it time for things to go wrong and then a few people mentioned to use some sacrificial headphones at first just in case there are any issues so that was really good to know. Then I guess one other thing I do is turn the volume down all of the way if it's new tubes or a new setup and then bring it up from 0 just in case there's some crazy noise or something. I haven't had any issues so far but I've been trying to be careful if I change anything but I think you all have done a really wonderful job preparing people and the information in this thread and shared has been amazing. It can be intimidating to get into something new like this but I have L0rdGwy's guide in a word doc that I look at before making changes and Zachik's compatibility guide before picking anything up and they are both really helpful.

So far I've kept it pretty simple I started out with the 6 Sylvania 6BL7 and I really loved the dynamics and impact of these and then the Tung Sol 5998 and then I tried a pair of Centron 6336A and it's great and has wonderful dynamics as well and that really immediate soundstage that is engaging but I just preferred the spaciousness of the Tung Sol so I went back to that and have been enjoying it since. The thing that did really stand out to me is all of them sounded great which I think is a testament to the amp and there was a lot I liked about each setup but that Tung Sol has been amazing me so I have just settled in with that and have been going through some favorite albums.


----------



## chrisdrop

Giving a few more new tubes a roll today; Marconi/ GE EL32s (1945, tx Mordy) + 2x RCA VT-65/6C5 + 2x steady Bendix 6080 (amp fixtures) 

I think, according to the RCA date codes I could find, S4 in this case (tube on right in link)=1944, 4th 2-month period of the year or ~Aug-Sep. Does that look right? 

I have more in the cupboard to go through; Ken Rad 6C5 like these @JazzVinyl - how did you like 'em? I also have 2 more somewhat newer 1952 RCAs in the pic posted recently. I have a replacement for a Mullard curved bottle EL32 (got 2 a while ago, anode top broke off 1, just got a companion).


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> @Zachik - What were your goals/ motivators for the new amp? Power speakers? I can see with output transformers & the speaker switch, this was _a_ goal, but was it _the_ goal? Variety / "Upgrade": GEL3N variant of amp (300b-like without the 300bs!)? Clearly you wanted beauty! Novelty? Something else? Did you ask for any other specialised parts (caps, resistors, etc)? I assume the transformers are all Lundahl based on the cases. Although I am sure they are not very comparable across amps; my recent enjoyment of the EL3Ns in the GOTL even are making me jealous of your new toy (we all have weaknesses)!


Excellent question Chris!
I actually had several motivations, and you pretty much hit the nail on the head... Main reason was to get different sound which is more refined and generally an upgrade to the GOTL. "300b-like without the 300bs" would be a great way to put it (and Glenn should trademark this before some commercial amp manufacturer does... ).
Once I decided to order the new amp, speakers output was an easy choice for me, to drive a pair of bookshelf speakers (near-field, next to my computer monitor).
Beauty and novelty came later - early on Glenn has told me he's going to order the case from Landfall, and so I designed (with Glenn's blessing) the front panel and the case anodized color.
Funny enough, since I was dragged deep down the tube rabbit hole with the OTL - I wanted an amp that just sounds great with no tube rolling! Funny, because once I decided to add 6J5 option for drivers (Glenn's recommendation), and EL34/KT66/KT77 output option (per @whirlwind excellent experience) - now tube rolling is a reality for this amp, too...   

Anyhow, I hope I have answered your question   The answer has many facets to it as you can see, and it was not a single reason but rather a long list of wishes and desires that I think this amazing amp would satisfy all of them


----------



## whirlwind

chrisdrop said:


> Giving a few more new tubes a roll today; Marconi/ GE EL32s (1945, tx Mordy) + 2x RCA VT-65/6C5 + 2x steady Bendix 6080 (amp fixtures)
> 
> I think, according to the RCA date codes I could find, S4 in this case (tube on right in link)=1944, 4th 2-month period of the year or ~Aug-Sep. Does that look right?
> 
> I have more in the cupboard to go through; Ken Rad 6C5 like these @JazzVinyl - how did you like 'em? I also have 2 more somewhat newer 1952 RCAs in the pic posted recently. I have a replacement for a Mullard curved bottle EL32 (got 2 a while ago, anode top broke off 1, just got a companion).




Are your Bendix tubes a bit noisy ?  I see you have tube dampers on them.


----------



## chrisdrop

whirlwind said:


> Are your Bendix tubes a bit noisy ?  I see you have tube dampers on them.


I had to buy 2 pairs of the Bendix to get 2 quiet ones, sadly. These are quiet now for some months, but their companions are not 100% quiet. It took me a bit of juggling the 4 tubes to isolate the noise and those dampers are really just "still there" from all the experimenting. If I take the dampers off, they may make a bit of noise, but they are reliably near silent so I haven't fiddled with the dampers. I tried the other day to put the other 2 in and they are almost usable, but you can hear hum. The "2 for the price of 4" was an expensive undertaking! I put silicone tape on the others and tried all sorts of things but could never get them silent.  This current setup is pretty silent - all the new tubes and the Bendix, I am thankful to say!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Here you go...


Gotta love that SET sound


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Giving a few more new tubes a roll today; Marconi/ GE EL32s (1945, tx Mordy) + 2x RCA VT-65/6C5 + 2x steady Bendix 6080 (amp fixtures)
> 
> I think, according to the RCA date codes I could find, S4 in this case (tube on right in link)=1944, 4th 2-month period of the year or ~Aug-Sep. Does that look right?
> 
> I have more in the cupboard to go through; Ken Rad 6C5 like these @JazzVinyl - how did you like 'em? I also have 2 more somewhat newer 1952 RCAs in the pic posted recently. I have a replacement for a Mullard curved bottle EL32 (got 2 a while ago, anode top broke off 1, just got a companion).


Hi chrisdrop,
Glad to see that you are enjoying yourself with tube rolling adventures! Re the RCA date code you got it right.
I would suggest the following standard operating procedure with all old European tubes whether they have an anode cap or not: Before using them, crazyglue the anode cap and the glass envelope where it meets the base. It takes a few seconds - I use a little crazy glue container that has a little brush built into the cap. You just go around the bottom part of the anode with the brush and brush on a thin layer; with he base you can push in the bristles between the glass and the base. Press into place, hold for a minute and let it dry for 24 hours (if you have the patience). 
A very easy fix for a tube with a lose base BTW - sometimes you can get a good buy on a tube with with a lose base. - Paid around $3 in Walmart for the glue.



US made tubes sometimes have lose bases, but in my experience it is much more common with European tubes.
If the anode cap comes off an expensive tube you can possibly fix it, but it is complicated - DL had such an experience.


----------



## Monsterzero

A poll for scientific purposes.

How many of the Glenn owners also own ZMF headphones? Chime in if you are in this club.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 18, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> _Question time.. sorry, curiosity hasn't killed me yet!_
> (...)
> 
> @DecentLevi as you have been recently discussing, you have an amp in flight. Speakers too? Perhaps you are after specific tubes you want optionality around? After a specific sound? What other criteria are you after? Experimentation? Also, very glad to hear your new amp is outpacing the Euforia already. Between you & Hypnos1 the forum will be quiet 'round those parts. I can't believe _he_ has gone off tubes!
> ...



Hi Chris, maybe you could work for Drop (formerly Massdrop)  

My incoming Glenn SET amp slain to be designed next was based on ideas I came up with inspired by the few other SET amps I noticed around this thread last summer. I took inspiration on how the GEL3N amps are reportedly a sublime performer even with some tips of the hat above his OTL amps... plus the fact that myself having 6x great EL3N's already helped sway me this direction. However what really sold me was the fact that the same amp topology is also compatible with many other all time great tubes I've become fond of such as KT66, EL38, EL12 and especially EL39 and EL12 Spez - however most requiring an adapter which I've already had made in advance by Deyan.

The final design came to focus more on KT66 / 88 / EL34 compatibility as the sockets are standard octal type so the EL3N would be used with adapters. I was not after any 'specific' sound, rather wanting a wide array of tuning options because I for one see the importance of matching _specific tube pairing + music genre + specific headphones_ in order to get the best result. Granted this matching process can be madness, but I always get my little cheat sheets to help. Though I'm not searching for a specific sound I do hope to have hard hitting slam / weight, clarity, realism and good soundstage. And I certainly should get more than enough fine tuning options with numerous driver and power tubes including with adapters, even dual drivers; 1-2 stage mode which bypasses the drivers, cathode resistor bypass switch, and external hexfred allowing for the solid-state diode or tube rectifier.

Also @2359glenn In case you missed it I had a question yesterday in this post about a line-out, and sending you EL12 Spez adapters to try.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Hi Chris, maybe you could work for Drop (formerly Massdrop)
> 
> My incoming Glenn SET amp slain to be designed next was based on ideas I came up with inspired by the few other SET amps I noticed around this thread last summer. I took inspiration on how the GEL3N amps are reportedly a sublime performer even with some tips of the hat above his OTL amps... plus the fact that myself having 6x great EL3N's already helped sway me this direction. However what really sold me was the fact that the same amp topology is also compatible with many other all time great tubes I've become fond of such as KT66, EL38, EL12 and especially EL39 and EL12 Spez - however most requiring an adapter which I've already had made in advance by Deyan.
> 
> ...



Yes I can put a line output no problem.
Don't send the EL12spez adapters until I am at my new address.  Not sure what the address is yet.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 18, 2020)

Also the main reason for the planned amp is to continue my path of 'moving up the audio ladder' so to speak, and from what I've read this should be one big step up from my previous mid-fi amps, perhaps even towards endgame material. As well I really dig the OT / OTC (output transformer coupled) concept; not armed with much knowledge on the tech details and how it affects the sound, my personal take is that amps with an output transformer (seem to) have a better ability to control the headphone transducer... an analogy like: _Transformer to driver: bend instantly at my command or I will transform you. Driver to transformer: Yes boss I will do as you say with utmost accuracy, and even push your air both ways._ (LOL, just an amateur illustration). I do say from the several OT amps I've tried I've really liked how controlled and resolving the sound is vs. OTL amps I've heard, including this Quad PA One + OT amp I've got in the interim which is just enamored with plush weight, control and texture! I just may keep it also.

Finally the ability to drive nearfield speakers is a plus with Glenn's upcoming SET amp, but for me I may have to contend with a nasty housemate there.


----------



## Velozity

Monsterzero said:


> A poll for scientific purposes.
> 
> How many of the Glenn owners also own ZMF headphones? Chime in if you are in this club.



Moi


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> A poll for scientific purposes.
> 
> How many of the Glenn owners also own ZMF headphones? Chime in if you are in this club.



Do former owners count?


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Do former owners count?


Future owners?
There was some talk a while back from ZMF about making a lower priced ZMF headphone without the fancy wood etc - maybe in the $500-800 range. Does anybody know of any developments?


----------



## chrisdrop

Monsterzero said:


> A poll for scientific purposes.
> How many of the Glenn owners also own ZMF headphones? Chime in if you are in this club.


Yes indeed. I am guessing it will be a large percentage.


----------



## Zachik

Tonight,  after big struggle with my music server  (gotta love how Microsoft forces windows 10 update,  and then all hell breaks loose! ) - I've spent some time with my new 6EL3N driving my zmf verite. 
This combo is awesome! Great tonality,  laid back in a very good way,  and now - much faster than the hd600. 
The GOTL still wins on speed,  but now metal doesn't sound too slow to my ears. 
What a joy!  Thanks again Glenn for bringing me joy and happiness  

Fingers crossed windows would work well tomorrow. Don't feel like spending hours debugging windows


----------



## cdanguyen08

Monsterzero said:


> A poll for scientific purposes.
> 
> How many of the Glenn owners also own ZMF headphones? Chime in if you are in this club.



I'm in queue for a GOTL because of my ZMF headphones  Waiting to join the club until then.


----------



## Bullpride (Apr 19, 2020)

cdanguyen08 said:


> I'm in queue for a GOTL because of my ZMF headphones  Waiting to join the club until then.


I am working on getting into the queue as well, to go with my Atticus.  I have a Bottlehead Crack on its way to tide me over


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 19, 2020)

Monsterzero said:


> A poll for scientific purposes.
> 
> How many of the Glenn owners also own ZMF headphones? Chime in if you are in this club.




I am in...been in since the Omni, which is now the Ori.
Listening to it now with GEL3N


----------



## maxpudding

Monsterzero said:


> A poll for scientific purposes.
> 
> How many of the Glenn owners also own ZMF headphones? Chime in if you are in this club.



A future owner of GOTL with ZMF headphones here


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Future owners?
> There was some talk a while back from ZMF about making a lower priced ZMF headphone without the fancy wood etc - maybe in the $500-800 range. Does anybody know of any developments?



This is something I would be very interested in as well.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> There was some talk a while back from ZMF about making a lower priced ZMF headphone without the fancy wood etc - maybe in the $500-800 range. Does anybody know of any developments?


@zach915m should respond to that one... anyone other than Zach who may know something - is likely under "gag order"...


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Future owners?
> There was some talk a while back from ZMF about making a lower priced ZMF headphone without the fancy wood etc - maybe in the $500-800 range. Does anybody know of any developments?




That would be pretty awesome.


----------



## Karnicopia

I've been listening to a pair of Bendix 6080 since they came in yesterday and those things are amazing I have been listening a lot since I put those in. They seem to combine things that I like with other tubes it has the dynamics of the Cetron with the spaciousness of the Tung Sol and I really enjoy how they sound with everything I've heard. They may become a fixture on my amp too. I guess the only problem is the amp gets pretty hot with them in there vs the Tung Sol but the amp has good ventilation and seems fine. It's definitely worth it for the sound I can't get past it they are really wonderful.



Monsterzero said:


> A poll for scientific purposes.
> 
> How many of the Glenn owners also own ZMF headphones? Chime in if you are in this club.



I just joined the club I had the Verite open and have always really loved them but they really evolved into something else with this amp.


----------



## mordy

Karnicopia said:


> I've been listening to a pair of Bendix 6080 since they came in yesterday and those things are amazing I have been listening a lot since I put those in. They seem to combine things that I like with other tubes it has the dynamics of the Cetron with the spaciousness of the Tung Sol and I really enjoy how they sound with everything I've heard. They may become a fixture on my amp too. I guess the only problem is the amp gets pretty hot with them in there vs the Tung Sol but the amp has good ventilation and seems fine. It's definitely worth it for the sound I can't get past it they are really wonderful.
> I just joined the club I had the Verite open and have always really loved them but they really evolved into something else with this amp.


Hi Karnicopia,
The GOTL is designed to draw away the heat from the amp and have it dissipated through the tubes without a fan. The maximum allowable temperature to run it is 80C. However, with certain tubes the amp tends to get hot, and for my own piece of mind (heat being the enemy #1 of electronics) I use two methods to reduce the heat although the hottest my amp gets is around 55-60C without the use of devices to lower the heat and with 10A of output tubes. However, these temperature measurements are taken at the outside of the amp and I don't know how hot components get inside.

1) Socket savers that insert between the chassis socket and the tube. The socket savers act as insulators and lowers the temperature of the chassis. In addition, it saves wear and tear on the built in sockets.
2) Using a small 4" fan (or two) that draw away air from the amp. The kind of fans used in PCs are fine for this and inexpensive. I found that using such devices lowers the chassis temperature at least 10C.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> 2) Using a small 4" fan (or two) that draw away air from the amp. The kind of fans used in PCs are fine for this and inexpensive. I found that using such devices lowers the chassis temperature at least 10C.


I highly recommend: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G05A2MU/
At lowest speed, I cannot hear it, and it is VERY effective in keeping the amp nice and cool. 
With headphones on, I cannot hear it at higher speeds - but honestly lowest speed is already VERY effective!


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> I highly recommend: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G05A2MU/
> At lowest speed, I cannot hear it, and it is VERY effective in keeping the amp nice and cool.
> With headphones on, I cannot hear it at higher speeds - but honestly lowest speed is already VERY effective!


What placement do you recommend for the fan?
And do you think that the 67,000 hours lifespan is enough given the use of the GOTL?


----------



## mordy

Here is another fan solution from the same company - two smaller 3" fans for about the same price:
https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-...+MULTIFAN&qid=1579728003&sr=8-3&tag=headfi-20
DGuss is using them with apparently good results.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> What placement do you recommend for the fan?
> And do you think that the 67,000 hours lifespan is enough given the use of the GOTL?


I place mine on the GOTL in front of the transformer and chokes. I use HEXFRED in the rectifier socket, so there is no glass on that side of the amp which leaves enough room for this fella. 
I think 67,000 hours is plenty


----------



## mordy

So if I understand correctly. the fan stands in the front of the chokes and transformer and blows air on them? Did you notice any electrical noise from the fan affecting the sound?
I find that I have to move around the fan a little to avoid certain hum or whine, and that some tubes are more sensitive to this than others. I also found that the magnet in the fan motor tries to attach to the chokes.
The 67K mention was just a joke - if I was the manufacturer I would make it a round number lol......


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Here is another fan solution from the same company - two smaller 3" fans for about the same price:
> https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-...+MULTIFAN&qid=1579728003&sr=8-3&tag=headfi-20
> DGuss is using them with apparently good results.



Those are the fans I have, and they are great.  Super quiet and minimal vibration.  I debated whether to get the single larger one like @Zachik but went with the 2 smaller ones.  One blows towards the power tubes from the right side (I have the GOTL setup with 6 power tube slots, 2 C3g slots, and 1 SN7 slot) and the other one blows air away from the amp on the opposite side.  I think I have only put less than 100 hours on them so far.  I'll keep you posted on whether they make it to 67,000.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> This is something I would be very interested in as well.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> So if I understand correctly. the fan stands in the front of the chokes and transformer and blows air on them?


Exactly!



mordy said:


> Did you notice any electrical noise from the fan affecting the sound?


No. Nothing at all.



mordy said:


> The 67K mention was just a joke - if I was the manufacturer I would make it a round number lol......


OK... hard to tell when some audiophiles use their amp for 2-3 hours per day, but complain their tubes are spec'd for *only* 5000 hours...


----------



## Karnicopia

mordy said:


> Hi Karnicopia,
> The GOTL is designed to draw away the heat from the amp and have it dissipated through the tubes without a fan. The maximum allowable temperature to run it is 80C. However, with certain tubes the amp tends to get hot, and for my own piece of mind (heat being the enemy #1 of electronics) I use two methods to reduce the heat although the hottest my amp gets is around 55-60C without the use of devices to lower the heat and with 10A of output tubes. However, these temperature measurements are taken at the outside of the amp and I don't know how hot components get inside.
> 
> 1) Socket savers that insert between the chassis socket and the tube. The socket savers act as insulators and lowers the temperature of the chassis. In addition, it saves wear and tear on the built in sockets.
> 2) Using a small 4" fan (or two) that draw away air from the amp. The kind of fans used in PCs are fine for this and inexpensive. I found that using such devices lowers the chassis temperature at least 10C.



Hi Mordy thanks for the advice I was starting to look into socket savers to use while I was checking out different tubes but that's good to know that it helps with heat as well. I actually bought a similar fan for my HT receiver so I think that could be a great solution and I'll check those out. I think I'm going to try both ideas because it did seem to build heat in the chassis where the 5998's seemed like the heat was more contained in the tubes and I felt a bit better about that. The Cetron 6080 ran pretty hot too so it seems like this is normal out of the 6080's I've tried so far but I would like to keep that temp lower so I appreciate the advice. I'll probably pick up both a fan and some socket savers and I may pull out the old HT fan for now that was pretty quiet too. That one was kind of nice because it had a temperature dependent turn on so it would just turn on and off automatically. I'll check out some of these options though that one is going to be pretty big on the GOTL but it will definitely do the trick in the meantime.


----------



## mordy

Karnicopia said:


> Hi Mordy thanks for the advice I was starting to look into socket savers to use while I was checking out different tubes but that's good to know that it helps with heat as well. I actually bought a similar fan for my HT receiver so I think that could be a great solution and I'll check those out. I think I'm going to try both ideas because it did seem to build heat in the chassis where the 5998's seemed like the heat was more contained in the tubes and I felt a bit better about that. The Cetron 6080 ran pretty hot too so it seems like this is normal out of the 6080's I've tried so far but I would like to keep that temp lower so I appreciate the advice. I'll probably pick up both a fan and some socket savers and I may pull out the old HT fan for now that was pretty quiet too. That one was kind of nice because it had a temperature dependent turn on so it would just turn on and off automatically. I'll check out some of these options though that one is going to be pretty big on the GOTL but it will definitely do the trick in the meantime.


Sounds like a good idea to have a thermostatically controlled fan - didn’t think of that. Usually I turn on my amp and let it warm up for 1/2 hour or so and then turn on the fan.
It is a little tricky with the socket adapters because some of them are very tight (especially in the beginning) and when you change tubes the socket saver comes out with the tube. I assume that there are high quality socket savers with smooth action but they can be more expensive.


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Sounds like a good idea to have a thermostatically controlled fan - didn’t think of that. Usually I turn on my amp and let it warm up for 1/2 hour or so and then turn on the fan.
> It is a little tricky with the socket adapters because some of them are very tight (especially in the beginning) and when you change tubes the socket saver comes out with the tube. I assume that there are high quality socket savers with smooth action but they can be more expensive.



Another thing: As you have noticed the tubes that draw more current get much hotter. For reasons I don’t understand some tube combinations seem to make the amp hotter than others, even with the same total current draw. The only thing I can think of is that the amp has to work harder with certain tubes, whatever that means.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Life brought me a little gift this weekend in the midst of all of this chaos and uncertainty.  

I ended my evening with a 3 hour listening session on the 45 amp, and near the end of that listening session an absolutely profound thought struck me.  I hadn't heard or been aware of my tinnitus the entire time.  The realization actually made me emotional.  I've had this for a couple of years now, well past the point where most experts say there is any chance of it going away on its own.  I have been seriously afraid that I would never get to enjoy music again for the rest of my life without that miserable noise constantly hammering away inside my head.  Even if it's just this once, I got to have this, and I'm grateful for it.

I feel it's worth sharing as a reminder to always look to the positives in life even when times are hard.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Ironically the time I've spent thinking about it has caused my brain to focus it back in and now I have to listen to it this morning.  For every peak a valley........


----------



## mordy

Very happy to hear that! And may you continue without any hearing problems!


----------



## chrisdrop

Xcalibur255 said:


> I feel it's worth sharing as a reminder to always look to the positives in life even when times are hard.


Gratitude is a beautiful thing. Thanks for sharing.

On the fan front, I use one of these. I have it in the back of the amp facing the output tubes. I (perhaps irrationally) think this makes the amp a bit quieter. On any general use day, my amp may be on from 6:30 AM to 9:30 PM, so plenty of opportunity to get hot!

I also use some nice ceramic socket savers for the output tubes (thanks to Deyan). Especially those Bendix tubes get hot.

Not sure if any of that really matters, but I feel like it does. At least I am aware that I may be fooling myself


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> Life brought me a little gift this weekend in the midst of all of this chaos and uncertainty.
> 
> I ended my evening with a 3 hour listening session on the 45 amp, and near the end of that listening session an absolutely profound thought struck me.  I hadn't heard or been aware of my tinnitus the entire time.  The realization actually made me emotional.  I've had this for a couple of years now, well past the point where most experts say there is any chance of it going away on its own.  I have been seriously afraid that I would never get to enjoy music again for the rest of my life without that miserable noise constantly hammering away inside my head.  Even if it's just this once, I got to have this, and I'm grateful for it.
> 
> I feel it's worth sharing as a reminder to always look to the positives in life even when times are hard.




This is nice to hear, it would be a hard thing for me to imagine not being able to enjoy my music.
I guess we should not takes things for granted, but I am guilty of just that.

Sometimes when I sit down at night in the easy chair and have a couple hour session undisturbed, with it all dark and cozy in my room, I feel it was the best two damn hours of the day.


----------



## Karnicopia (Apr 20, 2020)

mordy said:


> Sounds like a good idea to have a thermostatically controlled fan - didn’t think of that. Usually I turn on my amp and let it warm up for 1/2 hour or so and then turn on the fan.
> It is a little tricky with the socket adapters because some of them are very tight (especially in the beginning) and when you change tubes the socket saver comes out with the tube. I assume that there are high quality socket savers with smooth action but they can be more expensive.



Seems like these have become way more advanced since I bought one in the past it just had a 3 way switch where you can set it to 3 different temps and it would trip if the temp reached one of those points until it cooled but these seem much more sophisticated and I think it's actually the same company as the other ones that were posted. This may not be as useful for the GOTL since it's so close but it's nice for a AV receiver in a cabinet so this will usually turn on automatically when the receiver starts getting warm and I have this blowing air out of the back of the cabinet and it and the receiver have been going strong for around 10 years now.

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-...sVQ&hsa_cr_id=3415531910301&ref_=sb_s_sparkle

I really like that two small fans with dampening feet and I may prefer that for this application and I like the idea of the small desk fan but I don't have a lot of room where I have this set up so those 2x3" fans would be perfect for me I think. I'm going to set up the AV fan for now though and that should hopefully hold me over until the smaller ones get in. I'll get two of the cheaper Amazon socket savers and then I'm going to try and put together an adapter order with Deyan (but that may take some time) so I'll maybe get some nicer ones for the Bendix so I can use the cheaper socket savers if I want to tube roll and then a pair of nicer ones for the heat management.


----------



## Zachik

Karnicopia said:


> Seems like these have become way more advanced since I bought one in the past it just had a 3 way switch where you can set it to 3 different temps and it would trip if the temp reached one of those points until it cooled but these seem much more sophisticated and I think it's actually the same company as the other ones that were posted. This may not be as useful for the GOTL since it's so close but it's nice for a AV receiver in a cabinet so this will usually turn on automatically when the receiver starts getting warm and I have this blowing air out of the back of the cabinet and it and the receiver have been going strong for around 10 years now.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-...sVQ&hsa_cr_id=3415531910301&ref_=sb_s_sparkle
> 
> I really like that two small fans with dampening feet and I may prefer that for this application and I like the idea of the small desk fan but I don't have a lot of room where I have this set up so those 2x3" fans would be perfect for me I think. I'm going to set up the AV fan for now though and that should hopefully hold me over until the smaller ones get in. I'll get two of the cheaper Amazon socket savers and then I'm going to try and put together an adapter order with Deyan (but that may take some time) so I'll maybe get some nicer ones for the Bendix so I can use the cheaper socket savers if I want to tube roll and then a pair of nicer ones for the heat management.


I bought a similar model (https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-CLOUDPLATE-Airflow-cooling/dp/B0756RWC8V), and had to return it...
Really cool (pun intended) controls and display, but even at lowest speed - it was just too loud!!!  
Mind you it was placed approx. 3-4 feet from my head - if you're far enough from it, might not be an issue at all...


----------



## Karnicopia (Apr 20, 2020)

Zachik said:


> I bought a similar model (https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-CLOUDPLATE-Airflow-cooling/dp/B0756RWC8V), and had to return it...
> Really cool (pun intended) controls and display, but even at lowest speed - it was just too loud!!!
> Mind you it was placed approx. 3-4 feet from my head - if you're far enough from it, might not be an issue at all...



I agree these larger ones are more to be placed inside a rack or AV cabinet Instead of HP use but the interesting thing is all of these fans are from the same company and the 2 little 3" fans that were linked to (or the 4" you linked to) can apparently also be plugged into the same thermal controller and you would get the same capability from your existing fans. May not be the biggest deal if it's only 3-4 feet away but kind of cool if it just starts up based on temp so I think I'm going to check it out just to see. I'm planning on getting the 2 smaller 3" fans and try and daisy chain them with this controller and then I need to put my other fan back with the receiver because I actually do need it there I'm just going to use that in the short term until I get the smaller ones.

This is more like my old fan where you just pick out of 3-4 options:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078PY8L9F/ref=promo_pdapsinfo?ie=UTF8&psc=1&m=A2AW0W4FKP16S5

This seems to be their new system where you can program your own temp and alarms etc
https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-CONTROLLER-Thermostat-Controller/dp/B00NG9TSG4


----------



## mordy

Really cool (pun intended) idea of using a controller with a temperature probe to start the fans at a certain temperature.


----------



## Zachik

For what it's worth, for cooling down my GOTL - I ended up buying one of those:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PROCOOL-SX380-2U-Rack-Mount-Fan-3-Silent-Fans/123480302199

VERY quiet. I am VERY happy with these fans, and customer service has been top notch, answering my questions very quickly and very professionally. 
Not as sophisticated, no sensors, but much quieter.  Honestly, since I cannot hear it - I do not need temp control. I just turn it on when I turn my GOTL on, and leave it on! (until I am turning off my GOTL)

@mordy - I did not ask whether or not they can surpass 67,000 hours


----------



## mordy

Ain't got any fancy thermostatically controlled fans - just a couple of fans scavenged from old PCs running on 12V wall warts rescued from outdated portable phones (remember them? - from the pre cellphone days).
Somehow this meditation triggered a memory of a little peanut sized bass monster - the ISTOK 6N3P. This tube was made in August, 1956 and inspected by inspector #21 (OTK21). Could not find any more information about it, but my intuition tells me that it was made by a Reflektor factory in Saratov, Russia (later bought by Svetlana and precursor to  the Russian re-issue tubes). Or maybe by another Reflektor factory in Fryazino, Moscow Region.




This tube belongs to the 5670/396A/2C51/6N3P alphabet soup family. How would the bass of this little bugger match the mellow EL3N tubes? 



After looking through a bunch of boxes trying to find it, I am tired, and besides, it is well after midnight, so I'll wait until tomorrow for impressions. But just like Coca-Cola, everything goes better with a GOTL....
Tested the bass with this track that has a nice drum solo at 3:05:

Sounds good and impactful....
Have fun!


----------



## raindownthunda (Apr 21, 2020)

Monsterzero said:


> A poll for scientific purposes.
> 
> How many of the Glenn owners also own ZMF headphones? Chime in if you are in this club.



Future Glenn OTL owner checking in!

I put down my deposit for a GOTL in November of last year to pair with my ZMF Aeolus that I love oh so dearly. Around the same time, I built a Bottlehead Crack with a matching ziricote wood base to start my tube rolling journey, knowing full well that the wait would be significant due to high demand. Strategically, I've been buying pairs of power tubes to use in the BHC in anticipation of the GOTL. I have absolutely fallen in love with the ZMF dynamic + OTL sound! I've been a lurker on this thread since November and have gotten amazingly helpful advice from numerous regulars in this thread. My planned GOTL specs are: 6x output, 2x c3g, 2x 6/12j5 inputs (6/12v switch), Lundahl transformer, tube rectifier + HEXFRED adapter. Love this community that Glenn's craftsmanship has created!


----------



## maxpudding

raindownthunda said:


> Future Glenn OTL owner checking in!
> 
> I put down my deposit for a GOTL in November of last year to pair with my ZMF Aeolus that I love oh so dearly. Around the same time, I built a Bottlehead Crack with a matching ziricote wood base to start my tube rolling journey, knowing full well that the wait would be significant due to high demand. Strategically, I've been buying pairs of power tubes to use in the BHC in anticipation of the GOTL. I have absolutely fallen in love with the ZMF dynamic + OTL sound! I've been a lurker on this thread since November and have gotten amazingly helpful advice from numerous regulars in this thread. My planned GOTL specs are: 6x output, 2x c3g, 2x 6/12j5 inputs (6/12v switch), Lundahl transformer, tube rectifier + HEXFRED adapter. Love this community that Glenn's craftsmanship has created!



Good looking Crack there buddy


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Monsterzero said:


> A poll for scientific purposes.
> 
> How many of the Glenn owners also own ZMF headphones? Chime in if you are in this club.



+1


----------



## Bullpride

raindownthunda said:


> Future Glenn OTL owner checking in!
> 
> I put down my deposit for a GOTL in November of last year to pair with my ZMF Aeolus that I love oh so dearly. Around the same time, I built a Bottlehead Crack with a matching ziricote wood base to start my tube rolling journey, knowing full well that the wait would be significant due to high demand. Strategically, I've been buying pairs of power tubes to use in the BHC in anticipation of the GOTL. I have absolutely fallen in love with the ZMF dynamic + OTL sound! I've been a lurker on this thread since November and have gotten amazingly helpful advice from numerous regulars in this thread. My planned GOTL specs are: 6x output, 2x c3g, 2x 6/12j5 inputs (6/12v switch), Lundahl transformer, tube rectifier + HEXFRED adapter. Love this community that Glenn's craftsmanship has created!


I am on the same plan, but definitely a bit further behind.  I am still in talks with Glenn to get the ball rolling.  Crack w/Speedball is on its way.  I can't wait to explore all this tube goodness and replace my solid state.  My Atticus deserves better


----------



## mordy

Back to the Istok tube: 



Nyet, no fiery revelations. Very strong bass and a sound that reminds me of old well recorded 78's (in conjunction with the EL3N/Bendix 6080). 
Speaking of trains (the picture with the tube glow colors is from a Sandaoling Chinese mine old steam locomotive), here is a 78 from 1932 - Farewell Blues. At 1:25 the band cleverly introduces a very convincing musical rendition of a steam locomotive leaving the platform:

And here is a nice track that some might like (skip the 40 sec intro) to test the bass with an extended drum/clarinet solo:


----------



## Zachik

Tonight, rolled in Sylvania 6J5GT for drivers, to replace the EL3N drivers. Still 4xEL3N output tubes. Still Verite.
As @whirlwind and Glenn predicted - sound is less laid back, a little faster, and all in all absolutely a joy!!  
So far, based on my very limited experience with the 6EL3N - that amp is different enough from the GOTL that would easily justify keeping both


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> A poll for scientific purposes.
> 
> How many of the Glenn owners also own ZMF headphones? Chime in if you are in this club.



Of course I have ZMF phones the Verite on the OTL is fantastic.


----------



## felix3650

ZMF owner here and planning of owning Glenn's EL3N in the future (once I settle a bit better in life)


----------



## JM1979

I know this is a long shot but if anyone has an entry level GOTL they’d consider selling please let me know.


----------



## mordy

Very quiet - I assume that people are rolling tubes or listening quietly. What are you supposed to do when you are stuck indoors until the all clear sign comes? Roll tubes.
Looks like the EL3N/Bendix 6080 combination is a very nice platform for a third driver to sing along.
Today I dipped into my collection of 5670 tubes (aka 396A/2C51/6N3P) and pulled out a tube that the _cognoscenti _likes: A triple mica GE 5670 from October 1967.



This one is short, plump and broad shouldered - a muscular midget. The bass is not as deep as the Istok but has better grip on the bass (no doubt reinforced by the triple micas which seems a little strange in such a short tube but it apparently helps), and the soundstage is very good. A very pleasant and powerful more laid back presentation. Seems to be good reasons why people like this tube.


----------



## attmci

What's this?  Photoshop?


----------



## felix3650

attmci said:


> What's this?  Photoshop?


Hahha new chimera species of birdog. Ofcourse photoshoped


----------



## UsoppNoKami

mordy said:


> Very quiet - I assume that people are rolling tubes or listening quietly. What are you supposed to do when you are stuck indoors until the all clear sign comes? Roll tubes.
> Looks like the EL3N/Bendix 6080 combination is a very nice platform for a third driver to sing along.
> Today I dipped into my collection of 5670 tubes (aka 396A/2C51/6N3P) and pulled out a tube that the _cognoscenti _likes: A triple mica GE 5670 from October 1967.
> 
> This one is short, plump and broad shouldered - a muscular midget. The bass is not as deep as the Istok but has better grip on the bass (no doubt reinforced by the triple micas which seems a little strange in such a short tube but it apparently helps), and the soundstage is very good. A very pleasant and powerful more laid back presentation. Seems to be good reasons why people like this tube.



Do you have the WE396A mordy? I don't have adaptors to try it in the GOTL but I like them adapted to 6922 in the Cavali Liquid Platinum and love them in a Xiangsheng DA-5B II DAC (AKM4497 with one set of RCA outputs via WE396A tube buffer)


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Look at this @2359glenn , this guy has tripled the price of these tubes and is continuing to falsely advertise them as Telefunkens.  I informed him they are actually Philips E424 and that his Telefunken boxes are not original, but I was ignored.  I guess my help is not welcome.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUBE-TELEF...181994?hash=item3b1881106a:g:P6AAAOSwGLRbcoTE


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UsoppNoKami said:


> Do you have the WE396A mordy? I don't have adaptors to try it in the GOTL but I like them adapted to 6922 in the Cavali Liquid Platinum and love them in a Xiangsheng DA-5B II DAC (AKM4497 with one set of RCA outputs via WE396A tube buffer)



I used to have a collection of these tubes, the WE 396A / JW 2C51 is a nice miniature.  I also like the GE 5-Star triple mica, Tung-Sol 2C51, and Tesla 6CC42 pinched waist.

I always loved the look of the Teslas.


----------



## gibosi

UsoppNoKami said:


> Do you have the WE396A mordy? I don't have adaptors to try it in the GOTL but I like them adapted to 6922 in the Cavali Liquid Platinum and love them in a Xiangsheng DA-5B II DAC (AKM4497 with one set of RCA outputs via WE396A tube buffer)



As I remember, a number of us have used the WE396A in the GOTL. And in my opinion, it is one of my favorite drivers. So I would encourage you to get an adapter.


----------



## mordy

UsoppNoKami said:


> Do you have the WE396A mordy? I don't have adaptors to try it in the GOTL but I like them adapted to 6922 in the Cavali Liquid Platinum and love them in a Xiangsheng DA-5B II DAC (AKM4497 with one set of RCA outputs via WE396A tube buffer)


Hi UsoppNoKami et al,
You all must have been reading my mind:



This was the tube I am rolling now and you are all right - it sounds better than the other 5670 family tubes that I tried with a very even frequency response and good everything.
Strange that these very small tubes have the same qualities as the very large ones...
Q: What is the similarities between a 421A and a 396A? (I can only provide a silly answer...)


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 23, 2020)

Hey guys I've been trying to help a budding local musician set up a home studio, and looks like the speakers are still outstanding, and perhaps the microphone. I have been recommending the ribbon type microphone from either Telefunken or Beyerdynamic... and what is the current word on nearfield speakers? He may not be splurging for a speaker amp, so it may need to be powered nearfield speakers. And I think his budget is under maybe $500.

On the other hand he could get a vintage amp from a second hand store, but those are all still locked down for now, LOL - so that we can use a speaker without internal amp, which I think are better anyway.

Oh and sorry again for the off-topic, but still waiting on my Glenn amp. And I finally got my Qutest yesterday, and it is by far the best upgrade of my sound system to date, like adding a 4th or even 5th dimension, it's absolutely otherworldly and profoundly good. Not even in the same dimension as the entry-level Audio-GD R-1 DAC I got and sold.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi UsoppNoKami et al,
> You all must have been reading my mind:
> 
> This was the tube I am rolling now and you are all right - it sounds better than the other 5670 family tubes that I tried with a very even frequency response and good everything.
> ...


25A, so very close.


----------



## mordy

What happened to the new reissues of the Western Electric 300B tube?
*As of July 15, 2019, Western Electric is no longer accepting new pre-orders. If you’re interested in placing an order or plan to place an order in the future, email 300b@westernelectric.com.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 24, 2020)

Wow, I guess I'm between Generation X and Xennials, which I have never heard before LOL but the traits seem to match on their site. This is interesting, how about you....
*Which Generation are You?*
​
*Generation Name*​*Births
 Start*​*Births
 End*​*Youngest
 Age Today**​*Oldest Age
 Today**​*The Lost Generation
 The Generation of 1914*1890​1915​105​130​*The Interbellum Generation*1901​1913​107​119​*The Greatest Generation*1910​1924​96​110​*The Silent Generation*1925​1945​75​95​*Baby Boomer Generation*1946​1964​56​74​*Generation X (Baby Bust)*1965​1979​41​55​*Xennials*1975​1985​35​45​*Millennials
 Generation Y, Gen Next*1980​1994​26​40​*iGen / Gen Z*1995​2012​8​25​*Gen Alpha*2013​2025​1​7​


----------



## chrisdrop

DecentLevi said:


> Wow, I guess I'm between Generation X and Xennials, which I have never heard before LOL but the description seems to match on their site. This is interesting, how about you....
> *Which Generation are You?*
> ​
> *Generation Name*​*Births
> ...


On paper; GenX, 
External appearance; Lost Gen, 
My wife says I am like; Gen Alpha


----------



## whirlwind

DecentLevi said:


> Wow, I guess I'm between Generation X and Xennials, which I have never heard before LOL but the traits seem to match on their site. This is interesting, how about you....
> *Which Generation are You?*
> ​
> *Generation Name*​*Births
> ...




Baby Boomer here, but I guess I act like Gen Alpha also as my wife says she has to talk to me like I am a 5 year old at times!


----------



## chrisdrop

After some more EL32 experimentation between the GE/Marconi and Mullards... Either 1) the GE/Marconi's are taking longer to burn in, or 2) I just prefer the Mullards. The Marconis seem to narrow the stage and bring the presentation a bit more close in. It is a shame as they are somewhat prettier (to my eye at least).

GE/Marconis here:





Here are the Mullards.





FWIW, I should have a Mullard shoulder-type pair next week to compare. I think a few have said they like those best.

I have also moved for a bit now from 2x Bendix 6080 + 2x RCA 6080 to just the 2x Bendix. Overall I think the RCAs added some warmth, but also perhaps some haze. With the right driver-set, I haven't missed them. Perhaps with drivers approaching bright, the RCAs might make a reappearance.

@GDuss I am also happy to report that since putting the older RCA 6C5 metal tubes, I have been enjoying them thoroughly.

Be well all,
Chris


----------



## maxpudding

DecentLevi said:


> Wow, I guess I'm between Generation X and Xennials, which I have never heard before LOL but the traits seem to match on their site. This is interesting, how about you....
> *Which Generation are You?*
> ​
> *Generation Name*​*Births
> ...



Born in '86...yup a millennial...


----------



## gibosi

DecentLevi said:


> Wow, I guess I'm between Generation X and Xennials, which I have never heard before LOL but the traits seem to match on their site. This is interesting, how about you....
> *Which Generation are You?*
> ​
> *Generation Name*​*Births
> ...



Boomer here.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Apr 24, 2020)

I've never even heard of gen alpha before....

I laughed pretty hard when I found out that apparently I am something called a 'Xennial' now.  *shrug*  They're just labels.....  I've worn a lot of them that I didn't want to wear and it took a long time for me to realize that they only matter if I make the choice to assign importance to them.

Also, since this is the topic of discussion, it's worth noting that these cut-offs are different depending upon the source.  According to this list I would be in the very first year for Millenials (I was born in 1981), but according to the US Census Bureau the cut-off is shifted by a year which would make me the final year for Gen X.  I think the latter makes more sense because I graduated from high school in 1999, the final graduating year before the new millenium.  It makes sense to me for the Millenial generation to start with those who graduated from school in the year 2000, so I'm with the government on this one.


----------



## mordy

I am almost touching the Silent Generation, but I have the curiosity of a teenager......


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 24, 2020)

Too funny funny folks... one of you says your wife says you act like age 1 through 7. But I'm sure you didn't mean that you look like you're from the 'lost generation' which is between 105-130 . Even some of you mentioned your real age. I didn't mean to get that personal... I just stumbled on the idea of posting it here after I Googled to see which generation I am. And now I even know now that I'm actually not the youngest around here.

And anyone have advice about good nearfield studio monitors for around -$500? Powered or non or perhaps even used. @UntilThen maybe you have an idea.


----------



## mordy

Pulled out the WE 396A and put in a lesser known small tube, the 5687 which is a dual triode. All the major manufacturers made it, but the pinout is unique and only a few variants share it.
This tube is designed for both 6V and 12V. The adapter I have was designed for 6V use.
The tube I am using now looks similar to this GE tube:




I have GE, Tung Sol and Sylvania 5687 and 5687WA tubes. These are good sounding tubes in conjunction with the EL3N/Bendix6080.
In comparison to the 5070 family slightly different sound but not major differences. - all good sounding tubes. It seems to me that these little tubes tighten up the bass and adds some dynamics to the EL3N sound.
Strawberry, chocolate chip, pistachio mint, vanilla fudge - what do you like? 
Why do I think about ice cream? My wife won't let it into the house - saying it isn't good for me; too much sugar. And I can't sneak out and get it myself being holed up until the danger passes.....


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Too funny funny folks... one of you says your wife says you act like age 1 through 7. But I'm sure you didn't mean that you look like you're from the 'lost generation' which is between 105-130 . Even some of you mentioned your real age. I didn't mean to get that personal... I just stumbled on the idea of posting it here after I Googled to see which generation I am. And now I even know now that I'm actually not the youngest around here.
> 
> And anyone have advice about good nearfield studio monitors for around -$500? Powered or non or perhaps even used. @UntilThen maybe you have an idea.


These are very good speakers and inexpensive:
https://www.amazon.com/ELAC-Debut-B...2&qid=1587764208&sprefix=Elac+,aps,173&sr=8-2
No need to buy a used 100W receiver:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1246224-REG/yamaha_r_s202bl_r_s202_stereo_receiver_with.html
With the money left over from the $500 you could buy several cases of beer...
I have the speakers myself and they are very good, especially for the money and comparing to speakers at 4 times the price.
I do not have experience with the receiver, but it gets good reviews and will not break the bank.
Speakers $245; Receiver $130 - free shipping


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> And anyone have advice about good nearfield studio monitors for around -$500? Powered or non or perhaps even used. @UntilThen maybe you have an idea.



I'd recommend the monitor that I use - the Axis Voicebox S ..... or the cheaper KEF LS50. 

But you should bite the bullet and get the Rogers LS3/5A.  
https://www.stereo.net.au/reviews/falcon-acoustics-ls3-5a-loudspeaker-review

Around $500 will buy you monitors for the kitchen.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> Wow, I guess I'm between Generation X and Xennials, which I have never heard before LOL but the traits seem to match on their site. This is interesting, how about you....
> *Which Generation are You?*
> ​
> *Generation Name*​*Births
> ...



Definitely a Boomer


----------



## A2029 (Apr 24, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> And anyone have advice about good nearfield studio monitors for around -$500? Powered or non or perhaps even used. @UntilThen maybe you have an idea.



Focal Shape 65 if they can find used and stretch the budget. Yamaha HS8 is the usual recommended starting point for ~$500 for a pair. The Mackie XR624's are also supposed to be good. May even be able to get some Adam audio T7V's for around $500 used new.

This is wanted for music mixing and mastering correct?


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 24, 2020)

Quite attractive speaker options guys! I would certainly like to try every one of them. In this case my home setting is less than ideal for speakers but this is for a friend aspiring musician (yup mixing / mastering). My recommendation to him would be @mordy 's Elac Debut, if I can convince him to go the external amp route which I think is better so it can scale or synergize better with source. The powered ones look great too. Anyway don't want to derail this thread much but will let you know the outcome later. Thanks, and back to the Glenn amps.


----------



## maxpudding

DecentLevi said:


> Too funny funny folks... one of you says your wife says you act like age 1 through 7. But I'm sure you didn't mean that you look like you're from the 'lost generation' which is between 105-130 . Even some of you mentioned your real age. I didn't mean to get that personal... I just stumbled on the idea of posting it here after I Googled to see which generation I am. And now I even know now that I'm actually not the youngest around here.



No worries DL, I know I am one of the youngest here, but we all know we are still young at heart no matter what generation we’re from. Thanks for the quick poll hehe.


----------



## hpamdr

DecentLevi said:


> Quite attractive speaker options guys! I would certainly like to try every one of them. In this case my home setting is less than ideal for speakers but this is for a friend aspiring musician (yup mixing / mastering). My recommendation to him would be @mordy 's Elac Debut, if I can convince him to go the external amp route which I think is better so it can scale or synergize better with source. The powered ones look great too. Anyway don't want to derail this thread much but will let you know the outcome later. Thanks, and back to the Glenn amps.


Fore mixing, home studio the best is to go with pro headphone or active monitor like Eve Audio SC205, Adam A5X A7X, Dynaudio BM5 or used genelec 8030 or 8040.. You will also have to invest on acoustic foam for room acoustic treatment if you need to record acoustic instrument or voice using microphone..
No need for amplifier unless you go for the headphone path anyway you will also need ADC/DAC and software...


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> @GDuss I am also happy to report that since putting the older RCA 6C5 metal tubes, I have been enjoying them thoroughly.



Glad the RCA's are working out.  Admittedly the Aeolus are different from the ZMF's that many use here (Verite open and closed are both popular), so it's possible the RCA's just play very well with Aeolus.  In any case, I'm happy to hear you are enjoying those tubes.  I've talked them up so much I was going to feel bad if they didn't work out.

Right now I'm using RCA 6J5's but as I mentioned in the past, I can't really hear much difference between them and the RCA 6C5's.  Mine are similarly paired with Mullard EL32's (which I like quite a bit, much better than the Philips miniwatt EL32's) but with TS 5998's for power.  I don't have any Bendix (or GEC) 6080 tubes so can't comment on that pairing.  My options are 1960's Sylvania 6080's and some RCA 6080's from the 1950's (I prefer the Sylvania's).  The RCA 6X5/Mullard EL32 combo works well using either 6080's or 5998's.  I may be staying away from the 6080's for a while though.  It's getting hotter in Texas.  Those 6080's make my air conditioning work even harder  .


----------



## Zachik

Today, still using 6J5 for drivers and 4xEL3N as output - I pulled out some planars to see how they fair...
Verum 1 headphones with above tube config sounds pretty damn good!   Accept and couple other Metal bands albums sounds great.  Great Saturday all in all.

Also, for the first time, tested the speakers out of the EL3N amp - and it was surprisingly good.
Surprisingly, because the amp got approx. 5W per channel (according to Glenn), and my bookshelf speakers are NOT easy to drive at 85dB sensitivity.
At 6 (out of 11) - they were definitely loud enough! (and yes, my amp goes to 11. no kidding!)

Thanks Glenn, for making this whole stay-at-home thing WAY more tolerable!


----------



## mordy

Very happy with the sound of a GE 5687 driver + 2xEL3N and Bendix 6080. The 5687 can be found very inexpensively and the single adapter is also very reasonable.
"The *5687* is a very high quality double triode described as a general purpose nine-pin miniature tube, profit with *high performance* and *huge reserves* of emission.. Because of these properties they were widely used in military applications, computers and also in very successful audio applications.
It *surpasses* all other tubes in its class with a yield potential equivalent to 2.5 times that of 6SN7.

-Don't understand the last sentence - can somebody explain it to me? (The amplification factor of the 5687 is 18 vs 20 for a 6SN7).


----------



## felix3650

mordy said:


> Very happy with the sound of a GE 5687 driver + 2xEL3N and Bendix 6080. The 5687 can be found very inexpensively and the single adapter is also very reasonable.
> "The *5687* is a very high quality double triode described as a general purpose nine-pin miniature tube, profit with *high performance* and *huge reserves* of emission.. Because of these properties they were widely used in military applications, computers and also in very successful audio applications.
> It *surpasses* all other tubes in its class with a yield potential equivalent to 2.5 times that of 6SN7.
> 
> -Don't understand the last sentence - can somebody explain it to me? (The amplification factor of the 5687 is 18 vs 20 for a 6SN7).


How I understood it: you can produce 2.5x more 5687 tubes than the equivalent 6SN7 given the same costs and materials (at the production factory level).


----------



## mordy

felix3650 said:


> How I understood it: you can produce 2.5x more 5687 tubes than the equivalent 6SN7 given the same costs and materials (at the production factory level).


If your reasoning is correct, how can it surpass all other tubes in its class when a 5670 tube is even smaller in size? And if physical yield of materials is important, how come the sub miniature tubes (with the flying leads) never caught on?
And what does it mean “hugh reserves of emission”?


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> Very happy with the sound of a GE 5687 driver + 2xEL3N and Bendix 6080. The 5687 can be found very inexpensively and the single adapter is also very reasonable.
> "The *5687* is a very high quality double triode described as a general purpose nine-pin miniature tube, profit with *high performance* and *huge reserves* of emission.. Because of these properties they were widely used in military applications, computers and also in very successful audio applications.


 Another not expensive bulb to try is the 5963 also widely used in computer but less powerful.


----------



## chrisdrop

Saw these today, for any interested 6N7 fans. The guy (Italy) seems to have a few pretty Fivre 6N7GT pairs. They are not cheap, but they are also not insane.


----------



## chrisdrop

An interesting recent (for me) discovery with thanks to @Zachik...

Lower your noise floor: How? Plug in a 2nd pair of headphones into your amp (low impedance ones, higher impedance ones didn't really help). In my case, some old, cheap $20 Sennys plugged into the 1/4" jack, while listening using my normal headphones via the 4pin XLR jack. "The Zachik trick" lowered my noise-floor quite nicely. It also made some tubes I couldn't bear with small noises, bearable.

He claims he discovered this by accident, but I suspect it was a clever plot, well executed...

After asking on a DIY thread here and checking with Glenn; I ordered some resistors which I intend to put into a 4pin XLR connector to produce the same effect as the extra headphones - without the extra headphones.


----------



## mordy

hpamdr said:


> Another not expensive bulb to try is the 5963 also widely used in computer but less powerful.


Hi hpamdr,
Thanks for the tip - how is the 5963 different from the 12AU7 (and 12AT/AZ/BH/7 / E180CC ) that I also have?


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> An interesting recent (for me) discovery with thanks to @Zachik...
> 
> Lower your noise floor: How? Plug in a 2nd pair of headphones into your amp (low impedance ones, higher impedance ones didn't really help). In my case, some old, cheap $20 Sennys plugged into the 1/4" jack, while listening using my normal headphones via the 4pin XLR jack. "The Zachik trick" lowered my noise-floor quite nicely. It also made some tubes I couldn't bear with small noises, bearable.
> 
> ...


Hi chrisdrop,
My Sennheiser HD201 has an impedance of 24 ohm but I don't have any headphones with XLR plugs - I guess I could plug in both with a Y-cable. On the other hand I do not usually have any issues with noise using my headphones or speakers. Because I play via a preamp with tone controls (usually not needed and set on neutral) I can adjust the volume via the preamp and the GOTL. I end up with both being around 9-10 o'clock and this setting does not have background noise. If I turn up the volume to max with preamp (without music - otherwise I would damage my hearing) there almost always is some background noise to some degree.
The HD201 can be found for $20 or less. It sounds surprisingly good, but only after hundreds of hours of burn in (250 hours?) - maybe 80% of a HD650. And so far it has shown itself resistant to blowouts from unexpected pops,crackles and other fireworks......


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Hi chrisdrop,
> My Sennheiser HD201 has an impedance of 24 ohm but I don't have any headphones with XLR plugs - I guess I could plug in both with a Y-cable. On the other hand I do not usually have any issues with noise using my headphones or speakers. Because I play via a preamp with tone controls (usually not needed and set on neutral) I can adjust the volume via the preamp and the GOTL. I end up with both being around 9-10 o'clock and this setting does not have background noise. If I turn up the volume to max with preamp (without music - otherwise I would damage my hearing) there almost always is some background noise to some degree.
> The HD201 can be found for $20 or less. It sounds surprisingly good, but only after hundreds of hours of burn in (250 hours?) - maybe 80% of a HD650. And so far it has shown itself resistant to blowouts from unexpected pops,crackles and other fireworks......


Funny - my discovery has been with the HS201 (a.k.a. my sacrificial headphone). 
I know noise floor depends on various parameters: AC power being clean or not, transformer (mine is not Lundahl), tubes, etc.
My noise floor was noticeable and audible (on my HD800 and ZMF Verite) without music playing even at listening levels, let alone when volume max'd (no music playing!)... But with the HD201 plugged to the 1/4" jack - noise floor has dropped *dramatically*!! 
Honestly, I think this has elevated my GOTL to the next level. 
Again, might not apply to others, but apparently already made a big improvement for @chrisdrop


----------



## leftside

Zachik said:


> Funny - my discovery has been with the HS201 (a.k.a. my sacrificial headphone).
> I know noise floor depends on various parameters: AC power being clean or not, transformer (mine is not Lundahl), tubes, etc.
> My noise floor was noticeable and audible (on my HD800 and ZMF Verite) without music playing even at listening levels, let alone when volume max'd (no music playing!)... But with the HD201 plugged to the 1/4" jack - noise floor has dropped *dramatically*!!
> Honestly, I think this has elevated my GOTL to the next level.
> Again, might not apply to others, but apparently already made a big improvement for @chrisdrop


As the amp is now powering two headphones, do you have less gain with the headphones you are listening with (as opposed to plugging in just one set of headphones).


----------



## leftside

chrisdrop said:


> Saw these today, for any interested 6N7 fans. The guy (Italy) seems to have a few pretty Fivre 6N7GT pairs. They are not cheap, but they are also not insane.


Thanks. Will compare to Fivre 6N7G.


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> As the amp is now powering two headphones, do you have less gain with the headphones you are listening with (as opposed to plugging in just one set of headphones).


Yes. The HD201 acts like a "low gain" switch. Not an issue with HD800 and Verite,  since I have plenty range left on the volume knob.


----------



## hpamdr (Apr 27, 2020)

mordy said:


> Hi hpamdr,
> Thanks for the tip - how is the 5963 different from the 12AU7 (and 12AT/AZ/BH/7 / E180CC ) that I also have?


 Personally i run the 5963 in // in my F.A. when i have Visseaux 6M6G on output stage. I used it a lot in my CTH.
Electically it is not a replacement of the 12AU7 as t have lower limits but it sound better. The tube is very dynamic and quite linear. The gain is about 21. On F.A. it pair well with EL3N, 6M6G as output tube.


----------



## mordy

Thanks-sounds interesting. Any recommendations which brand to look for?
I have good experiences with GE for the 5687. (I also have Tung Sol and Sylvania)


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

I do recall some member here has DNA stratus as well as all of the Glenn's amp. Please do let me know, looking for a good read, perhaps a comparison.
One more amp to GO before my amp & the wait period is killing already.....


----------



## mordy

Decided to try a 12V 12AU7 tube that is supposed to sound good - Sylvania 12AU7 from March 1961 (relabeled Baldwin of organ fame). Was OK, but nothing special - nice tube glow, though:




You can see from my labels on the EL3N tubes that I take this hobby very seriously lol........
(The left EL3N has a rattle - probably a little piece of glass in there, but does not seem to affect anything. Was going to peel off the label but it did not cooperate. WD-40 works well for removing old labels, but can't get myself to pull out the tube now - really enjoying the sound with the GE 5687 back in the drivers seat.


----------



## DecentLevi

RE the hack of reducing the noise floor with two headphones in parallel. Granted this can reduce background noise, because what you are doing is adding resistance in the chain. It's similar effect as using a short impedance resistor cable in between the headphone and the socket, which are also available. And as mentioned here it is also similar to being on low gain. This is something I've tried before, with  headphone splitter adapters. This process consequently results in not only reducing the volume, but would be highly likely to affect as characteristics of the sound, namely micro detail and dynamics. If you were to perhaps adjust the volume to compensate after you plug in the sacrificial headphones to the way it was before, you may be able to detect some degradation in the sonics.


----------



## Zachik

DecentLevi said:


> This process consequently results in not only reducing the volume, but would be highly likely to affect as characteristics of the sound, namely micro detail and dynamics.


Not to MY ears... @chrisdrop - did you hear any (negative) change?



DecentLevi said:


> If you were to perhaps adjust the volume to compensate after you plug in the sacrificial headphones to the way it was before, you may be able to detect some degradation in the sonics.


Nope. Nice "theory" but I disagree!


----------



## DecentLevi

There are definitely a wide variety of ways to reducing hum and buzz, hum and even crackle and ping sounds from the tube, such as connecting what's known as a USB tuning stick to an empty slot of the RCA jacks in the back, to absorb some of the background similar to an earthing effect, something I will get down the line for me, as well as tube burn in and even tube rings.


----------



## chrisdrop

Zachik said:


> Not to MY ears... @chrisdrop - did you hear any (negative) change?
> Nope. Nice "theory" but I disagree!



I haven't been able to detect any negative effects, just more quiet (for which I am very thankful!).  I am usually pretty tuned into the "acoustic contours" of my setup and imagine I'd pick up any "subtraction". That said, @DecentLevi at some point soon, I'll get the quietest set of tubes I have around, put them in and do a bit of comparison.

FWIW; I do use various other devices including tube-rings (and mordy's suggested silicone tape on occasion), with my "biggest bang for buck" device still being a good set of isolation feet! My "springy isolation feet" make it very hard to move my amp (springs run amok), so I tried some silicone ones recently. They were certainly worse. I am still shocked by how much vibration these isolation feet absorb (and therefore _don't_ pass onto the tubes making microphonic chatter). At some point I'll try the (more expensive) mag-lev feet. 

What is this USB tuning stick via RCAs?


----------



## hpamdr

@mordy about 5963 tube, i have RCA and mixed brand made for HP used in computer in the early 60. The one i prefer are early RCA black plate and triple mica (before 1965)..


----------



## DecentLevi

chrisdrop said:


> (...)
> 
> What is this USB tuning stick via RCAs?


Apologies I've got a busy schedule (essential worker) and have yet to try them, a Google search for USB Tuning Stick brings a lot of results. Though I think they are better known by another name? Maybe someone can fill me in what they are AKA? Thanks


----------



## chrisdrop

DecentLevi said:


> Apologies I've got a busy schedule (essential worker) and have yet to try them, a Google search for USB Tuning Stick brings a lot of results. Though I think they are better known by another name? Maybe someone can fill me in what they are AKA? Thanks


No need to apologise. Be essential and be well. Google will do our bidding.


----------



## felix3650

chrisdrop said:


> No need to apologise. Be essential and be well. Google will do our bidding.


Most probably similar to this:

https://ifi-audio.com/products/groundhog/



mordy said:


> If your reasoning is correct, how can it surpass all other tubes in its class when a 5670 tube is even smaller in size? And if physical yield of materials is important, how come the sub miniature tubes (with the flying leads) never caught on?
> And what does it mean “hugh reserves of emission”?


By "surpass" it most probably refers versus other miniature tubes. Ofcourse bigger tubes have physics' laws on their side lol.
"how come the sub miniature tubes (with the flying leads) never caught on?" I honestly don't know how to answer this.
"huge reserves of emission" probably refers to the tube in question operating at a lower current than similar and thus expecting a longer tube operating lifetime.
This is my interpretation. Correct me if I'm wrong


----------



## UsoppNoKami

chrisdrop said:


> I haven't been able to detect any negative effects, just more quiet (for which I am very thankful!).  I am usually pretty tuned into the "acoustic contours" of my setup and imagine I'd pick up any "subtraction". That said, @DecentLevi at some point soon, I'll get the quietest set of tubes I have around, put them in and do a bit of comparison.
> 
> FWIW; I do use various other devices including tube-rings (and mordy's suggested silicone tape on occasion), with my "biggest bang for buck" device still being a good set of isolation feet! My "springy isolation feet" make it very hard to move my amp (springs run amok), so I tried some silicone ones recently. They were certainly worse. I am still shocked by how much vibration these isolation feet absorb (and therefore _don't_ pass onto the tubes making microphonic chatter). At some point I'll try the (more expensive) mag-lev feet.
> 
> What is this USB tuning stick via RCAs?



So far for me, any kind of increase in hum, noise or any anomaly when rolling tubes has always been due to one of the tubes.   Listening via sensitive headphones like the Verite and using 6x 6BL7 output tubes and ECC32 driver - a pretty high gain set up i think - my GOTL has a totally black and silent background.  I have a rectifier tube (U52 or WE422A) running too.  

I have ISOacoustics Orea isolation feet (3x) under the amp.  It's sitting on a 30kg block of granite, on a damped Solid Tech rack.  Power is also as clean as i can get it without dipping into regenerative power supplies... dedicated pull from DB to a Furutech NCF wall outlet, main power cord with NCF plugs and furutech eTP-80 EMI/RF blocking power board.


----------



## whirlwind

UsoppNoKami said:


> So far for me, any kind of increase in hum, noise or any anomaly when rolling tubes has always been due to one of the tubes.   Listening via sensitive headphones like the Verite and using 6x 6BL7 output tubes and ECC32 driver - a pretty high gain set up i think - my GOTL has a totally black and silent background.  I have a rectifier tube (U52 or WE422A) running too.
> 
> I have ISOacoustics Orea isolation feet (3x) under the amp.  It's sitting on a 30kg block of granite, on a damped Solid Tech rack.  Power is also as clean as i can get it without dipping into regenerative power supplies... dedicated pull from DB to a Furutech NCF wall outlet, main power cord with NCF plugs and furutech eTP-80 EMI/RF blocking power board.




The 6BX7 have lower gain than the 6BL7, but still you are running 8 tubes total and when you get them all to play together well the sound is unbelievable.
This should be a killer sound    

I have lots of combos that have a black as midnight back round, but I only run two power tubes now days which is much easier to achieve than running six.


----------



## Zachik

UsoppNoKami said:


> I have ISOacoustics Orea isolation feet (3x) under the amp


Would you recommend investing in those? Did you feel it made an improvement you could hear?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Zachik said:


> Would you recommend investing in those? Did you feel it made an improvement you could hear?



well... i have 5 sets of isoacoustic isolation pucks in various sizes, so i might be biased, but i reckon they are built nice.  whether they are better or worse than others would require buying/trying others and testing, but that's a rabbit hole i won't be heading down haha.  

i'm also using their isolation speaker stands for my desktop speakers, they are really good compared to angled wedges or leaving the speakers on the desk with rubber feet


----------



## mordy

hpamdr said:


> @mordy about 5963 tube, i have RCA and mixed brand made for HP used in computer in the early 60. The one i prefer are early RCA black plate and triple mica (before 1965)..


Thanks - ordered a pair of RCAs to try out.


----------



## Zachik

UsoppNoKami said:


> well... i have 5 sets of isoacoustic isolation pucks in various sizes, so i might be biased, but i reckon they are built nice. whether they are better or worse than others would require buying/trying others and testing, but that's a rabbit hole i won't be heading down haha.


Let me clarify my question 
Can you hear *audible improvement* by using the isoacoustic isolation pucks, *compared to stock plain rubber feet* (as shipped from Glenn)?


----------



## chrisdrop

Zachik said:


> Let me clarify my question
> Can you hear *audible improvement* by using the isoacoustic isolation pucks, *compared to stock plain rubber feet* (as shipped from Glenn)?


1) You didn't ask me, 2) I have probably already bored you mentioned my thoughts on this (broken record)... I know I am _"selling past the close"_, but; I _certainly did hear an audible improvement _with isolation feet (these cheap springy ones, not as good w/ silicone feet). I believe it is because transformer movements make tubes vibrate and they make noise. If you touch your amp and feel it vibrate, these may help. If you have a tube that is noisy, and you slightly lift your amp, and it gets quieter, they may help. 

_I promise not to make isolation feet advocacy posts... _


----------



## maxpudding

Don’t forget about the sand!!


----------



## chrisdrop

I have a nice pair of GEC 6J5*G*. I was wondering if I should expect a pair of GE 6J5*GT* to be  =,>,<?

Also, if anyone has shoulder or straight types they prefer from this tube family I'd love to hear. I now have a legion of full-metal tubes.

I do like my GEC shoulder types, Sylvania straight tubes, and several metal ones. Any thoughts on Fivre straight glass 6J5 or 6C5s? I don't have any of those yet... Trying to see if there are any more worth getting in this universe...


----------



## Xcalibur255

When I re-did my computer workspace last year my Glenn amp moved from a steel caster cart that used to sit off to the side onto the main desk which has a wood top now.  Ever since this change the amp seems to sound a lot better to me.  It makes me wonder if the steel in the cart was interacting with magnetic fields off the transformer or possibly capacitance from static electricity was having an effect somehow.  Hard to say.  There was one other change that happened around this same time as well, so I can't isolate which change produced the improvement.


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> 1) You didn't ask me, 2) I have probably already bored you mentioned my thoughts on this (broken record)... I know I am _"selling past the close"_, but; I _certainly did hear an audible improvement _with isolation feet (these cheap springy ones, not as good w/ silicone feet). I believe it is because transformer movements make tubes vibrate and they make noise. If you touch your amp and feel it vibrate, these may help. If you have a tube that is noisy, and you slightly lift your amp, and it gets quieter, they may help.
> 
> _I promise not to make isolation feet advocacy posts... _


Hey Chris - I was asking @UsoppNoKami since he uses the exact same pucks that I was considering for my GOTL and 6EL3N amps. Pricey, so I kept putting it off.

I know you like you springy feet 
(and you're never boring me. haha)
My concern with your springy feet is that if at any point I need to move things around - I will have to start a scavenger hunt for "springs on the loose"...


----------



## mordy

maxpudding said:


> Don’t forget about the sand!!


Well, I took a couple of my kids glass marbles and put under the shelf that holds my amp to cancel out micro vibrations from the transformer. Just have to make sure that there is something stopping the amp from rolling off the shelf....
The green glass marbles sound the best - just kidding (remember the green marker on the edges of the CDs?)


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> The green glass marbles sound the best


Good one!  Thanks for the laugh, @mordy


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Good one!  Thanks for the laugh, @mordy


Don't discount the glass marbles though - it was a tip from Steve Guttenberg a long time ago - he is still active in Hi-Fi.
Here is a good quote I just found:_* 
I like buying stuff, therefore I can hear a difference. *_


----------



## mordy

Rolling along - dipped into my 6DJ8 box and fished out a Russian equivalent that gets good reviews - the 6N23P. This one is made by Voskhod in August, 1974.
This tube is a good match for the EL3N/Bendix6080 with a powerful and dynamic presentation with strong upper mids and treble. Still a bargain tube than can be bought for less than $5 incl shipping if you buy 4.
Different flavor but very nice....
For some reason people like to call the the brand Voshhod but it should be Voskhod. If I remember correctly, the 1974 - 1975 versions are supposed to sound better. I bought mine from a Russian seller and tried to ask for those years without success. Then I used Google Translate and copied paste the Russian script to the seller - it worked.

Это очень хорошая вакуумная трубка, чтобы попробовать, если вы заинтересованы 

Homework: Copy this phrase in Google Translate to English and you'll get the hang of it......
And now, the obligatory picture:


----------



## maxpudding

mordy said:


> Well, I took a couple of my kids glass marbles and put under the shelf that holds my amp to cancel out micro vibrations from the transformer. Just have to make sure that there is something stopping the amp from rolling off the shelf....
> The green glass marbles sound the best - just kidding (remember the green marker on the edges of the CDs?)



“The green marbles sound the best” lmaoooo
  Thanks mordy


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Zachik said:


> Let me clarify my question
> Can you hear *audible improvement* by using the isoacoustic isolation pucks, *compared to stock plain rubber feet* (as shipped from Glenn)?



Sorry I still can't help you there... i removed the stock feet upon arrival 

When it comes to these things - try to find a shop that allows you to trial them before buying or has a return guarantee?


----------



## Zachik

UsoppNoKami said:


> Sorry I still can't help you there... i removed the stock feet upon arrival


Got it.  Thanks.

Too busy spending my money on other crap, but once I look for more things to spend money on - might give those a try!


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Don't discount the glass marbles though - it was a tip from Steve Guttenberg a long time ago - he is still active in Hi-Fi.
> Here is a good quote I just found:_*
> I like buying stuff, therefore I can hear a difference. *_



That is the thing about this hobby....*If you think it sounds better*...*then it sounds better.*


----------



## chrisdrop

_"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal" - Robert A. Heinlein_

Finally, we can use our biases to our benefit!


----------



## mordy

Continuing with R&R (Relentless Rolling) - meet 6/30L2 aka ECC804. This tube was suggested by gibosi some time back.



This tube cost 14 Shilling way back then - wonder how much that would be in todays currency?



Perhaps $12-13 - just guessing...
Anyhow, this is another tube from 6DJ8 family. Sweet and refined but does not go as low in the bass as the 6N23P or the 5687. More laid back presentation.
Why can't it just be named 6DJ8? Or even better, why such a strange designation as 6/30L2?
The answer is that the British tube industry could not compete on price with the US made tubes, so in order to force people to by British replacement tubes 
they instituted their own designation system that made it very difficult to compare with other designations.
The ECC804 is a European designation system with it's own quirks - the placement of the cc letters before or after the numerical designation indicates different things as well - will leave this for others to explain.....


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Continuing with R&R (Relentless Rolling) - meet 6/30L2 aka ECC804. This tube was suggested by gibosi some time back.
> 
> This tube cost 14 Shilling way back then - wonder how much that would be in todays currency?
> 
> ...



Technically, the ECC804 does not belong to the 6DJ8 (ECC88) family. While both were intended for use in television receivers, electrically, they are quite different. Significantly, the ECC804 has an amplification factor of 18 and the ECC88 has an amplification factor of 32. That said, both are very fine in the GOTL.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Technically, the ECC804 does not belong to the 6DJ8 (ECC88) family. While both were intended for use in television receivers, electrically, they are quite different. Significantly, the ECC804 has an amplification factor of 18 and the ECC88 has an amplification factor of 32. That said, both are very fine in the GOTL.


It wears the same shoes lol


----------



## mordy (Apr 30, 2020)

Continuing with R&R (Research and Relaxation). Pulled out a tube  6BC8 with the same footprint as the 6DJ8. It has an amplification factor of 35 - only know that it is a TV tube. The name on the box is a little scary - it has Corona in it - Coronado. This a rebranded tube of unknown origin (anybody?: Raytheon (because of the yellow print) / Sylvania? ( not really - I have one more Sylvania 6BC8 that is a little different). Maybe Japanese Raytheon?
The box says Radio Television Hi Fi and the company is Gable-Skogmo. (The literal translation of the Swedish Skogmo is forest wetland) . The company existed from 1920 until 1984, was headquartered in Minneapolis (where a lot of Swedes settled in the 1880's) and had its own line of radios using the name Coronado. In the 1970's this company with all its subsidiaries  was the 15th largest retailer in the US. Just a little history....




Surprise! These tubes sound excellent with the EL3N/Bendix6080. The Coronado has more bass than the Sylvania, but the Sylvania has a more even FR and better soundstage - both very musical and engaging.
Other designations of this tube are 6BZ8 and X155. These tubes are readily available at bargain prices on eBay.
As an aside, I dislike the Styrofoam peanuts for packing - they go all over the place and stick with static electricity. However, one of the sellers of these tubes must like them (and do a big business):



These guys do have a good sense of humor:




Have fun!


----------



## UsoppNoKami

I've been enjoying the GOTL with the same tube roll for almost 5 months straight - Mullard ECC32 + 6x Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plates + GEC U52

Decided to pull everything out for a change of pace. The treasured GEC 6AS7G shall stay on the shelf a bit longer , tonight I went with a quad 6080 , GEC L63 for more air with the 6080s, and the WE422A rectifier. 



Lovely balanced tone, much lower gain than the previous set up in terms of volume control .. lucky to have a super quiet set of tubes, this is really good


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Continuing with R&R (Research and Relaxation). Pulled out a tube  6BC8 with the same footprint as the 6DJ8. It has an amplification factor of 35 - only know that it is a TV tube. The name on the box is a little scary - it has Corona in it - Coronado. This a rebranded tube of unknown origin (anybody?: Raytheon (because of the yellow print) / Sylvania? ( not really - I have one more Sylvania 6BC8 that is a little different). Maybe Japanese Raytheon?
> The box says Radio Television Hi Fi and the company is Gable-Skogmo. (The literal translation of the Swedish Skogmo is forest wetland) . The company existed from 1920 until 1984, was headquartered in Minneapolis (where a lot of Swedes settled in the 1880's) and had its own line of radios using the name Coronado. In the 1970's this company with all its subsidiaries  was the 15th largest retailer in the US. Just a little history....
> 
> Surprise! These tubes sound excellent with the EL3N/Bendix6080. The Coronado has more bass than the Sylvania, but the Sylvania has a more even FR and better soundstage - both very musical and engaging.
> ...




I remember my father working on and owning a few of the old Coronado tube radio's


----------



## Zachik

UsoppNoKami said:


> I've been enjoying the GOTL with the same tube roll for almost 5 months straight - Mullard ECC32 + 6x Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plates + GEC U52


Have you ever compared the 6x 6BL7GT to 6x 6BX7?  I am curious to hear your opinion on BL vs. BX tubes in the GOTL.
I know BL have higher gain, and harder to find quiet ones. But assuming your are quiet - I want to know about sonic differences...


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Zachik said:


> Have you ever compared the 6x 6BL7GT to 6x 6BX7?  I am curious to hear your opinion on BL vs. BX tubes in the GOTL.
> I know BL have higher gain, and harder to find quiet ones. But assuming your are quiet - I want to know about sonic differences...



i have a lot of complete sets of 6BX7 and 6BL7 from the likes of Tung Sol, Westinghouse, RCA, Sylvania... the only one i truly liked was the Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plates.  They have a beautiful tonality - strong bass, great dynamics & control, neutral to a touch of warmth.  Also can be found labelled as Fivre.  

For other 6BL7 tubes i have on hand -  I didn't like the Tung Sols, RCAs are warm but lack a bit of clarity & bass speed, the sylvania 6BL7GTA T plates arent as sweet sounding as the GT flat plates.  

Re. 6BX7 tubes - Havent bothered to try the westinghouse yet, don't like the tung sol again, GE & sylvania didnt really inspire any lasting memories.  

I also have a single pair of RCA labelled 6BX7 and a single pair of Amperex labelled 6BL7 .. both are unused so can't comment how they may sound.


----------



## Zachik

UsoppNoKami said:


> i have a lot of complete sets of 6BX7 and 6BL7 from the likes of Tung Sol, Westinghouse, RCA, Sylvania... the only one i truly liked was the Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plates.  They have a beautiful tonality - strong bass, great dynamics & control, neutral to a touch of warmth.  Also can be found labelled as Fivre.
> 
> For other 6BL7 tubes i have on hand -  I didn't like the Tung Sols, RCAs are warm but lack a bit of clarity & bass speed, the sylvania 6BL7GTA T plates arent as sweet sounding as the GT flat plates.
> 
> ...


Great info - thanks!!!
I currently have 6x Sylvania 6BX7 tubes in my GOTL, and really like them.  A 6-pack of Tung-Sol 6BX7 is enroute.
Might have to try the 6BL7s...


----------



## chrisdrop

Zachik said:


> Have you ever compared the 6x 6BL7GT to 6x 6BX7?  I am curious to hear your opinion on BL vs. BX tubes in the GOTL.
> I know BL have higher gain, and harder to find quiet ones. But assuming your are quiet - I want to know about sonic differences...



I got a NOS 100% quiet 6x coin 6BL7 GE set from Billington. They were not expensive. I like them and use them sometimes. They are warmer and a bit more slow-moving. Good for maybe airy slower guitar music IMO. 



I have various 6BX7s and it was harder over here to get a quiet set. Once I did, I found any combo too "biting", so I don't really use them. Maybe with warmer drivers...??



UsoppNoKami said:


> I've been enjoying the GOTL with the same tube roll for almost 5 months straight - Mullard ECC32 + 6x Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plates + GEC U52
> 
> Decided to pull everything out for a change of pace. The treasured GEC 6AS7G shall stay on the shelf a bit longer , tonight I went with a quad 6080 , GEC L63 for more air with the 6080s, and the WE422A rectifier.
> 
> Lovely balanced tone, much lower gain than the previous set up in terms of volume control .. lucky to have a super quiet set of tubes, this is really good


Wow - 5 mos! I just googled and wow, those ECC32s are not cheap, if you can find 'em.

I'd like to find a 4x 6080 homogenous set. I like 2x Bendix 6080, but 4x doesn't really work for me. Are those 4x GECs?



mordy said:


> Continuing with R&R (Research and Relaxation). Pulled out a tube  6BC8 with the same footprint as the 6DJ8. It has an amplification factor of 35 - only know that it is a TV tube. The name on the box is a little scary - it has Corona in it - Coronado. This a rebranded tube of unknown origin (anybody?: Raytheon (because of the yellow print) / Sylvania? ( not really - I have one more Sylvania 6BC8 that is a little different). Maybe Japanese Raytheon?
> The box says Radio Television Hi Fi and the company is Gable-Skogmo. (The literal translation of the Swedish Skogmo is forest wetland) . The company existed from 1920 until 1984, was headquartered in Minneapolis (where a lot of Swedes settled in the 1880's) and had its own line of radios using the name Coronado. In the 1970's this company with all its subsidiaries  was the 15th largest retailer in the US. Just a little history....
> Surprise! These tubes sound excellent with the EL3N/Bendix6080. The Coronado has more bass than the Sylvania, but the Sylvania has a more even FR and better soundstage - both very musical and engaging.
> Other designations of this tube are 6BZ8 and X155. These tubes are readily available at bargain prices on eBay.
> As an aside, I dislike the Styrofoam peanuts for packing - they go all over the place and stick with static electricity. However, one of the sellers of these tubes must like them (and do a big business):


Hey @mordy. Enjoying hearing of your explorations. What adapters are you using for this/ these recent rolls?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Zachik said:


> Great info - thanks!!!
> I currently have 6x Sylvania 6BX7 tubes in my GOTL, and really like them.  A 6-pack of Tung-Sol 6BX7 is enroute.
> Might have to try the 6BL7s...



There are many who like 6BX7 incl Tung Sols, so give them a fair go. I did, but found the treble just not quite what I like.

I just found after much tube rolling that the sound from Sylvania flat plate 6BL7 output tubes were what I was looking for, so much so that I didn't roll anything for 5 months lol.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

> I'd like to find a 4x 6080 homogenous set. I like 2x Bendix 6080, but 4x doesn't really work for me. Are those 4x GECs?



2x 6080 are enough save for planar headphones, they need more current .. I mixed 2x Bendix and 2x GEC for tone purposes


----------



## mordy

UsoppNoKami said:


> i have a lot of complete sets of 6BX7 and 6BL7 from the likes of Tung Sol, Westinghouse, RCA, Sylvania... the only one i truly liked was the Sylvania 6BL7GT flat plates.  They have a beautiful tonality - strong bass, great dynamics & control, neutral to a touch of warmth.  Also can be found labelled as Fivre.
> 
> For other 6BL7 tubes i have on hand -  I didn't like the Tung Sols, RCAs are warm but lack a bit of clarity & bass speed, the sylvania 6BL7GTA T plates arent as sweet sounding as the GT flat plates.
> 
> ...


It is interesting that there is a consensus that the Sylvania flat plates sound the best.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> It is interesting that there is a consensus that the Sylvania flat plates sound the best.



These are the toughest to find in my opinion.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> These are the toughest to find in my opinion.


True - I had to assemble my set from several different sources


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> True - I had to assemble my set from several different sources



Yeah, pretty much impossible to find 6 matching tubes....but they do not have to match anyway. They do sound good.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> I got a NOS 100% quiet 6x coin 6BL7 GE set from Billington. They were not expensive. I like them and use them sometimes. They are warmer and a bit more slow-moving. Good for maybe airy slower guitar music IMO.
> 
> I have various 6BX7s and it was harder over here to get a quiet set. Once I did, I found any combo too "biting", so I don't really use them. Maybe with warmer drivers...??
> 
> ...





chrisdrop said:


> I got a NOS 100% quiet 6x coin 6BL7 GE set from Billington. They were not expensive. I like them and use them sometimes. They are warmer and a bit more slow-moving. Good for maybe airy slower guitar music IMO.
> 
> I have various 6BX7s and it was harder over here to get a quiet set. Once I did, I found any combo too "biting", so I don't really use them. Maybe with warmer drivers...??
> 
> ...


Gorgeous picture!
The EL3N adapters to C3g are from Deyan. The 5687 adapter to 6SN7 is also from Deyan (Chinese adapters available) and the last batch of tubes 6BC8, 6BZ7 use a 6CG7 to 6SN7 adapter; the last one can be used for many different tubes.
It looks like Xulingmrs is back in business:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...845222?hash=item2edfa84fa6:g:Fu4AAOSwxAxa0GLA
I have been listening to Sylvania 6BC8 and now 6BZ7 (almost identical) and I really enjoy the sound with the EL3N and Bendix - everything is just right for my taste.


----------



## chrisdrop

Of note, a "quiet dongle" inspired by @Zachik's spare headphone trick seems to work perfectly. Just 2 resistors inside the 4pin XLR case and poof, quieter. No spare headphones lying around making sound/ waiting to get kicked. No sonic degradation that I can detect.


----------



## maxpudding

chrisdrop said:


> Of note, a "quiet dongle" inspired by @Zachik's spare headphone trick seems to work perfectly. Just 2 resistors inside the 4pin XLR case and poof, quieter. No spare headphones lying around making sound/ waiting to get kicked. No sonic degradation that I can detect.



Whoah...good find CD


----------



## whirlwind

Last day of "stay at home".  I will go back to work on Monday.  I have been off since March 24th.

I am ready to go back and I hope everything stays under control. Ohio is going to ease back into things.

I would be lying if I said I was not going to miss my listening into the late morning.

Going to make the last day a good one!


----------



## ScornDefeat

Hope all are well and safe.

I imagine this is a frequently asked question but after reading through many pages, haven't seen a definitive answer. 

How does one, exactly, get into the famed "queue?" Just shoot 2359glenn a PM and take it from there? 

Thanks!


----------



## chrisdrop

ScornDefeat said:


> Just shoot 2359glenn a PM and take it from there?


Yes
There are likely questions the rest of the forum can answer too such as; what options are there, etc. Recent past has some of those posts.


----------



## ScornDefeat

chrisdrop said:


> Yes
> There are likely questions the rest of the forum can answer too such as; what options are there, etc. Recent past has some of those posts.



Thanks! From my understanding, the queue is roughly 1 year at this point, I think?

Yep, been reading through and looking at the variations posted with respect to options. Very helpful.


----------



## cdanguyen08

Longer the queue just means more time to get more headphones to try it out with  ordered a gsx-mini and a VC to hold me over for the queue


----------



## UsoppNoKami

whirlwind said:


> These are the toughest to find in my opinion.





mordy said:


> True - I had to assemble my set from several different sources



same... took me many months to assemble my set of 6


----------



## leftside

ScornDefeat said:


> Thanks! From my understanding, the queue is roughly 1 year at this point, I think?


Glenn makes great amps and you won't be disappointed if you get one. I have the 300B. I think the current waitlist is over 2 years at the moment. Used Glenn amps do occasionally come up for sale.


----------



## ScornDefeat

leftside said:


> Glenn makes great amps and you won't be disappointed if you get one. I have the 300B. I think the current waitlist is over 2 years at the moment. Used Glenn amps do occasionally come up for sale.



Over two years...that's intense! Legendary, might I say!

That's really a testament to the quality product we must be talking about here!


----------



## Zachik

ScornDefeat said:


> Over two years...that's intense! Legendary, might I say!
> 
> That's really a testament to the quality product we must be talking about here!


Glenn's amps are nothing short of amazing!
I will never sell mine (got 2 of them)... I am considering stating in my will I want to get buried with them


----------



## JM1979

A couple questions:

1. What is the width and depth of a typical GOTL?

2. What is the main difference in sound or performance of a rectifier tube vs SS?


----------



## whirlwind

JM1979 said:


> A couple questions:
> 
> 1. What is the width and depth of a typical GOTL?
> 
> 2. What is the main difference in sound or performance of a rectifier tube vs SS?




Roughly 12 1/2 " wide 12" depth, but you must allow room for power cord and jacks and such.

SS vs rectifier is just a personal preference I think....some think SS  sounds best others like the tube rectifier....many arguments both ways. Some people just like the "pure" tube amp through and through.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

cdanguyen08 said:


> Longer the queue just means more time to get more headphones to try it out with  ordered a gsx-mini and a VC to hold me over for the queue


GSX-Mini.... wow..... do share the initial impressions once you get it...... which colour BTW..... its an array of various colors available...


----------



## Zachik

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> GSX-Mini.... wow..... do share the initial impressions once you get it...... which colour BTW..... its an array of various colors available...


Speaking of the GSX-Mini... I have auditioned it at CanJam SoCal last year, and ZMFestivus II - I really loved it with both planars as well as ZMF (VC and VO) headphones.
Granted I never auditioned the Cavalli LAu - I thought the GSX-Mini is one of the best solid state amps I have ever listened to! (and loved it MUCH more than its big brother the GSX MK2). 
I will let actual owners provide more info on specifics, but I am keeping an eye and maybe add one of those to my collection at some point in the future...


----------



## cdanguyen08

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> GSX-Mini.... wow..... do share the initial impressions once you get it...... which colour BTW..... its an array of various colors available...



I originally wanted the polished red but went with the Matte Black so it matches with my other gear. (OCD would kick in haha)


----------



## cdanguyen08

Zachik said:


> Speaking of the GSX-Mini... I have auditioned it at CanJam SoCal last year, and ZMFestivus II - I really loved it with both planars as well as ZMF (VC and VO) headphones.
> Granted I never auditioned the Cavalli LAu - I thought the GSX-Mini is one of the best solid state amps I have ever listened to! (and loved it MUCH more than its big brother the GSX MK2).
> I will let actual owners provide more info on specifics, but I am keeping an eye and maybe add one of those to my collection at some point in the future...



I figured the gsx-mini be good to have as a solid state amp to compliment the GOTL. I know @whirlwind is using the GSX-Mk2 and the GOTL and it seemed like a great idea to switch it up from time to time.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Zachik said:


> Speaking of the GSX-Mini... I have auditioned it at CanJam SoCal last year, and ZMFestivus II - I really loved it with both planars as well as ZMF (VC and VO) headphones.
> Granted I never auditioned the Cavalli LAu - I thought the GSX-Mini is one of the best solid state amps I have ever listened to! (and loved it MUCH more than its big brother the GSX MK2).
> I will let actual owners provide more info on specifics, but I am keeping an eye and maybe add one of those to my collection at some point in the future...


Actually...... even I was eyeing on it but halted since there are very less/no reviews available & I can't audition it here in India.... The nearest location for audition is SG but this COVID has overhauled everything.....Even my GOTL will be delayed  (enqueue after DL)....


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

cdanguyen08 said:


> I originally wanted the polished red but went with the Matte Black so it matches with my other gear. (OCD would kick in haha)


I liked Satin Grey....


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

cdanguyen08 said:


> I figured the gsx-mini be good to have as a solid state amp to compliment the GOTL. I know @whirlwind is using the GSX-Mk2 and the GOTL and it seemed like a great idea to switch it up from time to time.


Wells audio Milo is another contender..... almost in same price bracket...


----------



## chrisdrop (May 2, 2020)

This week, I swapped drivers back from the metal a pair of RCA 6C5s to the GE 6C5s. @GDuss; while there is not much in it, I have a slight preference for the GE 6C5s in this setup. I do very much like the RCAs finally and there is a big difference between the older beach-ball logo ones and the newer ones I have. While the GEs and the RCAs are of a kind, if you have a spare tenner try the GEs too. I still have some more RCA 6C5s and KenRad 6J5s unopened/haven't tried yet. They will keep waiting because I am just listening to music in longer clips with no changes.

I am keen to go back to the EL3Ns at some point too, but one of them is a bit noisy as a driver, so I'll see if it goes away after some more hours in the amp at some point, or I'll have to order another one.

I also experimented with putting back a 2nd pair of RCA 6080s to accompany the largely unable-to-remove Bendix pair. Presently I am enjoying the tonal change/extra warmth and space in the mid-bass.

Here we are presently:


----------



## whirlwind

cdanguyen08 said:


> I figured the gsx-mini be good to have as a solid state amp to compliment the GOTL. I know @whirlwind is using the GSX-Mk2 and the GOTL and it seemed like a great idea to switch it up from time to time.




I have never heard the GS-X Mini , but I would like too. The GS-x mk2 is a wonderful amp, I even use the pre-amp running into the GEL3N amp in one tube mode at times.
A real work horse of an amp ...I use all of my headphones with this amp.

When I first heard of the mini coming out, I figured it would be a very nice amp.


----------



## Zachik

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Wells audio Milo is another contender..... almost in same price bracket...


The Milo is very interesting in that reviews are VERY polarized!  
Honestly, I do not remember any other product that reviewers either LOVED it or HATED it with passion. Feels like there was no one in the middle...


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> I am keen to go back to the EL3Ns at some point too, but one of them is a bit noisy as a driver


Glenn has told me that while testing my new EL3N amp, he had to test several EL3N tubes to find a quiet pair for use as drivers.
I assume that is a known issue with EL3N tubes?
Chris - have you tried EL11 tubes?  I tested a couple pairs (with Deyan's adapters into C3g sockets), and I think their sound signature is not too far from EL3N... you might like it a lot if you like EL3N tubes.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> I have never heard the GS-X Mini , but I would like too. The GS-x mk2 is a wonderful amp, I even use the pre-amp running into the GEL3N amp in one tube mode at times.


Joe, from what I remember when audition GS-X Mini vs. the Mk2, and mind you it was for 10 minutes in CanJam so show floor ambient noise, yada yada:
The mini was more liquid and musical. The Mk2 had less of that "fun factor" to it. I remember thinking the Mk2 reproduces the notes with more separation between instruments, but each instrument felt too focused maybe? 
Trying to have analogy to photography, the Mk2 is like a photo that is very very sharp but so much so that it is not pleasing whereas the mini is like a photo that is VERY slightly blurred, in comparison, but it is more pleasing for the eyes.

Again, limited time, MY ears and brain, etc.


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> The Milo is very interesting in that reviews are VERY polarized!
> Honestly, I do not remember any other product that reviewers either LOVED it or HATED it with passion. Feels like there was no one in the middle...


I know that @Hansotek was quite fond of the Milo. Perhaps drop him a PM.


----------



## Karnicopia




----------



## audiofest2018

Zachik said:


> Joe, from what I remember when audition GS-X Mini vs. the Mk2, and mind you it was for 10 minutes in CanJam so show floor ambient noise, yada yada:
> The mini was more liquid and musical. The Mk2 had less of that "fun factor" to it. I remember thinking the Mk2 reproduces the notes with more separation between instruments, but each instrument felt too focused maybe?
> Trying to have analogy to photography, the Mk2 is like a photo that is very very sharp but so much so that it is not pleasing whereas the mini is like a photo that is VERY slightly blurred, in comparison, but it is more pleasing for the eyes.
> 
> Again, limited time, MY ears and brain, etc.


I currently own a blue matte GS-X Mini and would recommend it especially if you are waiting for Glenn to build you an amp like I do.  (order back in September-19 hopefully it is after DL’s build... so close now!).  

Please don't get fooled by the size of this small unit, it is very powerful and can easily drive VO or ABYSS Diana Phi. Not sure if there is such a thing of tube-like SS amp but it does sound like to my ears. Like @Zachik said the SQ is very musical and smooth yet no loss of the details. I personally feel it matches perfectly well with Sennheiser hd800. I also own another SS headphone amplifier PASS HPA-1, compare to it they are distinct different.  

These are just my personal experiences and I apology for off the topic on the thread. Now back to GOTL learning session for me!


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Glenn has told me that while testing my new EL3N amp, he had to test several EL3N tubes to find a quiet pair for use as drivers.
> I assume that is a known issue with EL3N tubes?
> Chris - have you tried EL11 tubes?  I tested a couple pairs (with Deyan's adapters into C3g sockets), and I think their sound signature is not too far from EL3N... you might like it a lot if you like EL3N tubes.


Hi Z,
As far as I know, the EL11 is the same tube as the EL3N with a different base. Of course, each tube has it's own flavor - I like the Telefunken EL11 the best.


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Hi Z,
> As far as I know, the EL11 is the same tube as the EL3N with a different base. Of course, each tube has it's own flavor - I like the Telefunken EL11 the best.


Just another base as you guys say. I have a nice pair of EL11s in my cupboard. This adapter is on the list of things I would like from @Deyan. I should just add it to my current order with him


----------



## Zachik

audiofest2018 said:


> Please don't get fooled by the size of this small unit, it is very powerful and can easily drive VO or ABYSS Diana Phi. *Not sure if there is such a thing of tube-like SS amp but it does sound like to my ears.* Like @Zachik said the SQ is very musical and smooth yet no loss of the details. I personally feel it matches perfectly well with Sennheiser hd800. I also own another SS headphone amplifier PASS HPA-1, compare to it they are distinct different.


I totally agree!  Over the last few years of my audiophile journey, I reached the conclusion that I **way** prefer the sound of tubes over solid state. The GSX-Mini as well as its little brother the Gilmore Lite Mk2 are the most tube-like solid state amps I have had the pleasure auditioning. Still trying to get my hands on a genuine Cavalli LAu which is supposedly the king of tube-like solid state amps


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Hi Z,
> As far as I know, the EL11 is the same tube as the EL3N with a different base. Of course, each tube has it's own flavor - I like the Telefunken EL11 the best.


Now that you say that, I remember that I used to know that... 
Having said that, the EL11 on the OTL sounds very different than EL3N on the EL3N amp. Same sound signature "family" but different enough. Granted, amp topology is VERY different, and so are the power tubes!


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> Just another base as you guys say. I have a nice pair of EL11s in my cupboard. This adapter is on the list of things I would like from @Deyan. I should just add it to my current order with him


One thing I did notice with the EL11 on my GOTL - they are very prone to ringing. More so than any other tubes I can think of. Any touch to the amp or even the shelf could trigger a few seconds of ringing.
I wonder @chrisdrop if your springy feet would help mitigate this issue...


----------



## Monsterzero (May 3, 2020)

Zachik said:


> The GSX-Mini as well as its little brother the Gilmore Lite Mk2 are the most tube-like solid state amps I have had the pleasure auditioning.


That is very interesting to hear. I had the GLM2 for a few months and found it to be quite sterile sounding. Nothing like a tube amp at all.
To me if you want to go for a tube sound without going for tubes than a nice vintage receiver from Sansui,Marantz or McIntosh will get you fairly close. In fact most of my old receivers are actually warmer than my GOTL. Nothing quite like that 70's West Coast sound. The old receivers make for excellent headphone amps.

I guess now is a good time to show off my newest addition. My wife loves me  Ive only been wanting one for 35 years.


----------



## Deyan

chrisdrop said:


> Just another base as you guys say. I have a nice pair of EL11s in my cupboard. This adapter is on the list of things I would like from @Deyan. I should just add it to my current order with him



Note taken.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Zachik said:


> I totally agree!  Over the last few years of my audiophile journey, I reached the conclusion that I **way** prefer the sound of tubes over solid state. The GSX-Mini as well as its little brother the Gilmore Lite Mk2 are the most tube-like solid state amps I have had the pleasure auditioning. Still trying to get my hands on a genuine Cavalli LAu which is supposedly the king of tube-like solid state amps


Cavalli LAu is really hard to get hands on buddy..... a rare gem people dnt part ways easily.....


----------



## Zachik

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Cavalli LAu is really hard to get hands on buddy..... a rare gem people dnt part ways easily.....


I know. Doesn't mean I should not try....


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Zachik said:


> I know. Doesn't mean I should not try....


Ohhhh yeahhh.... agree with you


----------



## 2359glenn

I will be off at least a week leaving with first U-Haul trip now have to do another tomorrow.
Will have to get internet turned on in the new house hopefully by the end of the week.
Glenn


----------



## chrisdrop

2359glenn said:


> I will be off at least a week leaving with first U-Haul trip now have to do another tomorrow.
> Will have to get internet turned on in the new house hopefully by the end of the week.
> Glenn


Good luck Glenn. Be well.


----------



## maxpudding

2359glenn said:


> I will be off at least a week leaving with first U-Haul trip now have to do another tomorrow.
> Will have to get internet turned on in the new house hopefully by the end of the week.
> Glenn



Alright Glenn, stay safe and good luck


----------



## mordy (May 3, 2020)

Zachik said:


> I totally agree!  Over the last few years of my audiophile journey, I reached the conclusion that I **way** prefer the sound of tubes over solid state. The GSX-Mini as well as its little brother the Gilmore Lite Mk2 are the most tube-like solid state amps I have had the pleasure auditioning. Still trying to get my hands on a genuine Cavalli LAu which is supposedly the king of tube-like solid state amps


Are you aware of any older headphone/preamp solid state amps with the tube sound that are more reasonable than the current offerings mentioned?
As M0 mentioned, people claim that some old receivers have a tube like sound, but my impression is that they usually need refurbishing and end up costing at least $500-700.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> I will be off at least a week leaving with first U-Haul trip now have to do another tomorrow.
> Will have to get internet turned on in the new house hopefully by the end of the week.
> Glenn




Good luck and stay safe.


----------



## audiofest2018

2359glenn said:


> I will be off at least a week leaving with first U-Haul trip now have to do another tomorrow.
> Will have to get internet turned on in the new house hopefully by the end of the week.
> Glenn


Good luck Glenn!


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> I will be off at least a week leaving with first U-Haul trip now have to do another tomorrow.
> Will have to get internet turned on in the new house hopefully by the end of the week.
> Glenn


Wishing you good luck on your move and an easy transition!


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

mordy said:


> Are you aware of any older headphone/preamp solid state amps with the tube sound that are more reasonable than the current offerings mentioned?
> As M0 mentioned, people claim that some old receivers have a tube like sound, but my impression is that they usually need refurbishing and end up costing at least $500-700.


I think Violectric was known to had a slight tubey sound despite being a SS amp (as far as I recall). I never owned it but have heard such impressions from some owners.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

2359glenn said:


> I will be off at least a week leaving with first U-Haul trip now have to do another tomorrow.
> Will have to get internet turned on in the new house hopefully by the end of the week.
> Glenn


TC Glenn & have a safe & fine transition.


----------



## rnros

2359glenn said:


> I will be off at least a week leaving with first U-Haul trip now have to do another tomorrow.
> Will have to get internet turned on in the new house hopefully by the end of the week.
> Glenn



Good luck Glenn, hope it all goes smooth and easy. Stay safe.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Are you aware of any older headphone/preamp solid state amps with the tube sound that are more reasonable than the current offerings mentioned?
> As M0 mentioned, people claim that some old receivers have a tube like sound, but my impression is that they usually need refurbishing and end up costing at least $500-700.


Mordy - I never had the pleasure of auditioning ANY of the vintage receivers. Cannot help you there.
@Monsterzero I believe it quite an expert on that topic


----------



## chrisdrop

chrisdrop said:


> This week, I swapped drivers back from the metal a pair of RCA 6C5s to the GE 6C5s. @GDuss; while there is not much in it, I have a slight preference for the GE 6C5s in this setup. I do very much like the RCAs finally and there is a big difference between the older beach-ball logo ones and the newer ones I have. While the GEs and the RCAs are of a kind, if you have a spare tenner try the GEs too. I still have some more RCA 6C5s and KenRad 6J5s unopened/haven't tried yet. They will keep waiting because I am just listening to music in longer clips with no changes.
> 
> I am keen to go back to the EL3Ns at some point too, but one of them is a bit noisy as a driver, so I'll see if it goes away after some more hours in the amp at some point, or I'll have to order another one.
> 
> ...


Interesting:

I noticed that 1 of my 2 Bendix outputs makes some noise, _but only_ with a 2nd pair of 6080s in. If they are by themselves, the Bendix are quiet. If a 2nd pair is in, that one valve reliably makes a bit of noise. I don't really understand it.
Given that I was taking the 2nd outputs out, experimenting with the slight noise, I popped in some new inputs; KenRad 6J5s. They are certainly the thumpiest of these 6(JC)5 tubes that I have. Most of the rest in this family of tubes are more similar to one another IMO. These are pretty different. They are new and just in the amp now for a few hours (I have had made the best of circumstance and been had 8-10 hours a day of listening lately on most days).
If any of you are into electronic music, this guy has a headphone special; binaural effect. With your nice gear, it is pretty spacious!


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> To me if you want to go for a tube sound without going for tubes than a nice vintage receiver from Sansui,Marantz or McIntosh will get you fairly close. In fact most of my old receivers are actually warmer than my GOTL. Nothing quite like that 70's West Coast sound. The old receivers make for excellent headphone amps.
> 
> I guess now is a good time to show off my newest addition. My wife loves me  Ive only been wanting one for 35 years.


Lovely. When McIntosh first introduced solid state amps and preamps they still wanted these new amps and preamps to sound similr to the tube gear.  It's a different sound to today's lineup of McIntosh tube gear though. If I ever had the money and space, I'd like a separate room in the house with old vintage McIntosh gear.


----------



## Monsterzero (May 3, 2020)

mordy said:


> Are you aware of any older headphone/preamp solid state amps with the tube sound that are more reasonable than the current offerings mentioned?
> As M0 mentioned, people claim that some old receivers have a tube like sound, but my impression is that they usually need refurbishing and end up costing at least $500-700.


Yes,many old receivers need a trip to the tech,which can cost anywhere from $75.00 on up depending upon the work needed to be done to it. A recap is where the repair will be costly.

I picked up a nice 50wpc Akai receiver off of a lady on Craigslist for $50.00. It still sounds good but has developed a channel imbalance.

Ive seen Sansui 2000a go for around two hundred bucks. Thats the warmest receiver Ive ever heard. Typically if you avoid receivers that are 100wpc and up deals can be found. Once you crack the century mark however prices tend to go way up,but for driving headphones and/or most speakers theres no need for that kind of power.

EDIT: For example,the Sansui 881 was the TOTL receiver Sansui made at that time,sitting ahead of the 661 and 771. It clocks in at 55wpc and is one of the better sounding receivers Ive ever heard. I bought mine off of a Craigslist ad for $100.00 delivered to my door. No affiliation.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sansui-881...084634?hash=item26395bf35a:g:1lQAAOSwpB5eoQ3V

Once Pioneer released the worlds first 100wpc receiver,the SX1010 in 1973 that triggered a golden age for home audio. Every company were in a race to "out-watt" the competition,referred to as the "Wattage War". It culminated in Technics releasing the SA1000 in 1977,which came in at a ridiculous 330 wpc and weighed in at 90 pounds. A fully restored SA1000 can set you back over 10 grand.

On a different note,does anyone know how many watts the GOTL puts out? I was asked this question today on my YouTube channel and I frankly have no idea.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Lovely. When McIntosh first introduced solid state amps and preamps they still wanted these new amps and preamps to sound similr to the tube gear.  It's a different sound to today's lineup of McIntosh tube gear though. If I ever had the money and space, I'd like a separate room in the house with old vintage McIntosh gear.


The 4100 was the first totally solid state receiver McIntosh made. The 1500 and 1700 were hybrids.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Interesting:
> 
> I noticed that 1 of my 2 Bendix outputs makes some noise, _but only_ with a 2nd pair of 6080s in. If they are by themselves, the Bendix are quiet. If a 2nd pair is in, that one valve reliably makes a bit of noise. I don't really understand it.
> Given that I was taking the 2nd outputs out, experimenting with the slight noise, I popped in some new inputs; KenRad 6J5s. They are certainly the thumpiest of these 6(JC)5 tubes that I have. Most of the rest in this family of tubes are more similar to one another IMO. These are pretty different. They are new and just in the amp now for a few hours (I have had made the best of circumstance and been had 8-10 hours a day of listening lately on most days).
> If any of you are into electronic music, this guy has a headphone special; binaural effect. With your nice gear, it is pretty spacious!



Hi chrisdrop,
These noise issues with certain combinations are part of the tube mystique lol.
1) Have you tried to switch the positions of the two Bendix tubes? Sometimes that helps.
2) Since you have six sockets for the power tubes, have you tried spacing the quad with an empty row?
3) Taking care not to burn your fingers, you can make a makeshift Faraday cage by using a piece of aluminum foil and hold it between the offending tube and the others, or wrap it around it - sometimes it helps.
Good luck!


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> Given that I was taking the 2nd outputs out, experimenting with the slight noise, I popped in some new inputs; KenRad 6J5s. They are certainly the thumpiest of these 6(JC)5 tubes that I have. Most of the rest in this family of tubes are more similar to one another IMO. These are pretty different. They are new and just in the amp now for a few hours (I have had made the best of circumstance and been had 8-10 hours a day of listening lately on most days).


Chris - which KenRad 6J5 tubes are those? The all-metal type, or metal base with glass top?


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Ive seen Sansui 2000a go for around two hundred bucks. Thats the warmest receiver Ive ever heard. Typically if you avoid receivers that are 100wpc and up deals can be found. Once you crack the century mark however prices tend to go way up,but for driving headphones and/or most speakers theres no need for that kind of power.





Monsterzero said:


> For example,the Sansui 881 was the TOTL receiver Sansui made at that time,sitting ahead of the 661 and 771. It clocks in at 55wpc and is one of the better sounding receivers Ive ever heard.





Monsterzero said:


> The 4100 was the first totally solid state receiver McIntosh made. The 1500 and 1700 were hybrids.


Very interesting stuff!!!
Darren - I am curious: did any of these guys ever released an *amp-only* version?  If I decide to get a vintage "amp" and add to my collection, compare to my other amps, I do not need the radio receiver part, phono stage, etc...
I must admit your 4100 looks awesome - your wife definitely loves you buddy!


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Very interesting stuff!!!
> Darren - I am curious: did any of these guys ever released an *amp-only* version?  If I decide to get a vintage "amp" and add to my collection, compare to my other amps, I do not need the radio receiver part, phono stage, etc...
> I must admit your 4100 looks awesome - your wife definitely loves you buddy!


Sure. A lot the big hitters of the day made stand alone amps. @UntilThen has a couple of Sansui amps. For me personally though I prefer the receivers over the amps as theyre much more pleasing to the eye.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/73368/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=vintage+amplifiers


----------



## mordy

hpamdr said:


> @mordy about 5963 tube, i have RCA and mixed brand made for HP used in computer in the early 60. The one i prefer are early RCA black plate and triple mica (before 1965)..


Hi hpamdr,
More R&R (Resource and Referral):
Just got a pair of the RCA 5963 -  date code HB = November 1966. These are gray plate and double mica. The price was right - $8 shipped for the pair.




Just plugged in the tube - beautiful tube glow:



It sounds very nice right away - a bright, open, spacious and detailed presentation. Will give it more time and see how it develops, but looks like a very nice sounding tube - thanks.


----------



## chrisdrop

Zachik said:


> Chris - which KenRad 6J5 tubes are those? The all-metal type, or metal base with glass top?


all metal like this (not my pic but same):


----------



## leftside (May 3, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Very interesting stuff!!!
> Darren - I am curious: did any of these guys ever released an *amp-only* version?  If I decide to get a vintage "amp" and add to my collection, compare to my other amps, I do not need the radio receiver part, phono stage, etc...
> I must admit your 4100 looks awesome - your wife definitely loves you buddy!


My MC75 amps are "amp-only" and are the 60th anniversary editions of the same amps (from 60 years ago obviously) but with completely different parts. Some people prefer the older amps, but these antiques in mint shape cost a pretty penny - if you can find them. There is also MC30 and MC60 and a bunch of others:
http://www.berners.ch/McIntosh/en/Matrix.htm
http://www.mcintoshaudio.com/history.htm


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> For me personally though I prefer the receivers over the amps as theyre much more pleasing to the eye.


Looking on eBay (the link you provided) - I totally agree the receivers are much better looking


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> all metal like this (not my pic but same):


Do you have the metal base with glass top version of KenRad to compare?  I am curious what you think about them compared to each other.


----------



## Celty

2359glenn said:


> I will be off at least a week leaving with first U-Haul trip now have to do another tomorrow.
> Will have to get internet turned on in the new house hopefully by the end of the week.
> Glenn


Safe moving, at least the traffic should be lighter than usual..


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Sure. A lot the big hitters of the day made stand alone amps. @UntilThen has a couple of Sansui amps.



Only one left. There are some gear I'll regret selling, like the Sansui AU-717. However this Sansui 907mr transformed my HD650 and it's driving my speakers.   Congrats once again on your new McIntosh.


----------



## chrisdrop

Zachik said:


> Do you have the metal base with glass top version of KenRad to compare?  I am curious what you think about them compared to each other.


I only have these in KenRadLand, sadly. 

Going to try and order some more tubes. Why not. Between these brands, any global (across valves) preferences? Raytheon & possibly Sylvania, Westinghouse. I don't even know if that is a great question, but hey - why not ask!?


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> Going to try and order some more tubes. Why not. Between these brands, any global (across valves) preferences? Raytheon & possibly Sylvania, Westinghouse. I don't even know if that is a great question, but hey - why not ask!?



Since my new 6EL3N amp takes either EL3N or 6J5 as drivers - I need to buy some 6J5s as well


----------



## UsoppNoKami

UntilThen said:


> Only one left. There are some gear I'll regret selling, like the Sansui AU-717. However this Sansui 907mr transformed my HD650 and it's driving my speakers.   Congrats once again on your new McIntosh.



Matt your ex-AU-7700 is still well cherished here.  Mainly driving my desktop speakers as I don't listen to the LCD-3F much anymore.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> I only have these in KenRadLand, sadly.
> 
> Going to try and order some more tubes. Why not. Between these brands, any global (across valves) preferences? Raytheon & possibly Sylvania, Westinghouse. I don't even know if that is a great question, but hey - why not ask!?


Hi cd,
My personal experience has been that the all metal tubes sound better in general than their glass equivalents - YMMV.
People speak about a certain "House Sound" and there is some truth to it. Ken-Rads usually have very strong bass, and Sylvania tubes often are musical and have a wide sound stage. When it comes to the 6C5/6J5 tubes I would look for older ones from the 40's from RCA, GE, K-R and National Union. K-R was bought by GE in 1945 but I think GE continued to use the name up to 1952. NU went out of business in 1954. Westinghouse had some legal anti-trust troubles and had to stop manufacturing tubes for a while - the Westinghouse tubes usually are from the end of the tube era in the 60's. Raytheon has some good tubes but usually people aren't looking for them re the early tubes (?). Early Tung Sols are also good. Another good small Massachusetts manufacturer was Hytron - later CBS. 
If you look at the dates of the all metal tubes 6J5 etc you find dates from the 40's into the late 60's. IMHO it is unusual for such a tube to have been in production for such a long time - wonder if old stock was just relabeled - gibosi has to verify if my guess is correct.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi guys would you say this is Fivre 6J5GT is any good? And about how much is a reasonable price?


----------



## whirlwind

DecentLevi said:


> Hi guys would you say this is Fivre 6J5GT is any good? And about how much is a reasonable price?




Yes, those are good tubes, not sure about what is a reasonable price for them.


----------



## DecentLevi (May 5, 2020)

Oh, thanks. Do you think they'd be redundant though if I already have GEC L63, Sylvania 6C5 and black metal RCA 6J5? tubes?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

DecentLevi said:


> Hi guys would you say this is Fivre 6J5GT is any good? And about how much is a reasonable price?



They are nice tubes.  The slightly older model with the pretty labels go for a bit more, but as far as I can tell the internal construction is identical, unless they are the less common black plate version. I would say $60-70 or less for a nice pair would be a good price on the market.  NOS pairs are usually listed for $100 or more, but you can spot deals here and there.


----------



## DecentLevi (May 6, 2020)

Thanks for your input guys, I got the above Fivre 6J5GT tubes - $35 + $35 shipping overseas for my upcoming Glenn SET OT amp.

@2359glenn I'm wishing you success with all the process of moving and looking forward to hearing how it's going. Do you also have to build your own workshop lab from scratch?


----------



## mordy

More R&R - Rock and Roll:
As you know, I am spending some of my precious quarantine hours rolling driver tubes using the platform of 2xEL3N and 2xBendix 6080.
Times change - I don't think that the expression BS (pardon my language) had taken hold in the 50s and 60s because I have a tube labeled 6BS8. Don't think they would give this designation today. There is a whole science in naming products, such as cars, in a way that they don't offend in many different languages. 
Anyhow, now I tried a close sibling to the 6BS8 - the 6BC8. The test subject is named Sylvania and was made in October 1965. (The BS tube is next)
When I first put in the 6BC8 tube it hummed badly, but when I tried it in my earlier Little Dot days it did work fine. I would never had thought of it, but L0rdGwyn once wrote that you can try to take a recalcitrant tube and wrap it in a towel and whack it against your hand. (I used a light blue microfiber wash cloth that i use to handle hot graphite plate tubes with.)
Said and done (this time I did not count 10 whacks - just kept smacking it for a while). Nothing to lose, eh?
And guess what? It worked! Not only that, but this tube sounds really good. All the good stuff of the Sylvania house sound - open, wide sound stage, even FR, musical.
You want a picture? Doesn't look like anything special, but it is:



Stay safe and healthy!


----------



## Zachik

@mordy - you should change your alias to @TubeWhacker  
Now speaking of the 6BS8 and 6BC8 - they're not on my compatibility list... (I guess I can always count on you to provide info on new tubes that need to be added).
Looks like you'd use it with 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter on the GOTL?


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> @mordy - you should change your alias to @TubeWhacker
> Now speaking of the 6BS8 and 6BC8 - they're not on my compatibility list... (I guess I can always count on you to provide info on new tubes that need to be added).
> Looks like you'd use it with 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter on the GOTL?


Hi Zachik,
No, I don't want to come through as somebody whacking anything or anybody. But if the only choice is to throw out the tube or try hitting it to make it work, then it is worthwhile to try it.
Now, the 6BC8, 6BS8, 6BZ7, 6BQ7A and X155 tubes are all the same tube (with small differences) and completely interchangeable. They are all 6V tubes and need a different adapter than the one you mentioned above.
Lots of tubes have this pinout and the adapter I use is marked 6CG7 to 6SN7, but 6DJ8 to 6SN7 is the same adapter and may be listed for less on eBay. 
How come I have all these oddball tubes? The 6DJ8 has a good reputation but when I was looking for it some time back it was more expensive. Went to the Radiomuseum site and found all these equivalents. There was a seller then who had hundreds of listings for 99c - trudged through the listings and picked out these kinds of tubes.
I also think I bought small lots of tubes very inexpensive. Today there are perhaps fewer tubes available for sale (or for whatever reason) many tubes are sold individually.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Hi Zachik,
> No, I don't want to come through as somebody whacking anything or anybody. But if the only choice is to throw out the tube or try hitting it to make it work, then it is worthwhile to try it.
> Now, the 6BC8, 6BS8, 6BZ7, 6BQ7A and X155 tubes are all the same tube (with small differences) and completely interchangeable. They are all 6V tubes and need a different adapter than the one you mentioned above.
> Lots of tubes have this pinout and the adapter I use is marked 6CG7 to 6SN7, but 6DJ8 to 6SN7 is the same adapter and may be listed for less on eBay.
> ...


Thanks @mordy - added to my table!


----------



## GDuss

Hey @chrisdrop (who I assume is sleeping when this gets posted) look what I found in a box of tubes I haven't tried yet, some rusty GE 6J5's.  I'll give them a shot with the current lineup of Mullard EL32's and TS 5998's.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> Hey @chrisdrop (who I assume is sleeping when this gets posted) look what I found in a box of tubes I haven't tried yet, some rusty GE 6J5's.  I'll give them a shot with the current lineup of Mullard EL32's and TS 5998's.


I love them little rusties - the rust doesn't affect the performance but has a very positive effect on the price lol.
Just don't forget to clean off the pins.....


----------



## maxpudding

mordy said:


> I love them little rusties - the rust doesn't affect the performance but has a very positive effect on the price lol.
> Just don't forget to clean off the pins.....



Hi mordy

What do you use to clean the pins?


----------



## Mfalcon

Do any of y’all plug your Glenn Amp into some sort of power device to protect it from a surge?  I tend not to because I didn’t like the way itsounded when I tried it years ago with a different amp but I was thinking about it earlier when someone was telling me about a surge they had a while back.  Mine Is a 300b Glenn but I imagine this question would be similar for other Glenn’s as well.


----------



## mordy

maxpudding said:


> Hi mordy
> 
> What do you use to clean the pins?


I am using a Swiss precision tool as a scraper - just kidding: a little pen knife with a dull thin blade that reaches in between the pins:



Anything will do - scissors, knife etc. I also use a large magnifying glass that illuminates that makes it easy to see the oxidation and corrosion - also useful for identifying small faded lettering on tubes:
(picture only for illustration)



You just scrape gently on the pins until you see that the pins are nice and shiny. I once read a research paper from the 40's on cleaning tube pins, and the conclusion was that mechanical abrasion gives the best results. Save the cost of expensive chemicals for a case of beer lol......


----------



## DecentLevi

Good pointers for cleaning tube pins... Yeah the scraping method is probably better than the oil cleaning methods like Deoixit they actually have, really snake oil, LOL! and Mordy you said you read read about it in the 40's? But your face looks so young in the photo above   



Mfalcon said:


> Do any of y’all plug your Glenn Amp into some sort of power device to protect it from a surge?  I tend not to because I didn’t like the way itsounded when I tried it years ago with a different amp but I was thinking about it earlier when someone was telling me about a surge they had a while back.  Mine Is a 300b Glenn but I imagine this question would be similar for other Glenn’s as well.


Interesting you tried connecting your amp to a surge protector and didn't like the sound; possibly those don't do much for improvement of fidelity anyway. Well I'm not sure how many people on this thread do it, but a number of users across Head-Fi with different amps including me use something called Power Filtering, or power conditioner. This acts as not only a surge protector but it can something extraordinary with the sound, improving the fidelity by giving it cleaner power with a black background. A bigger difference is usually had though with also a thicker accompanying power cable. You may be interested to research those topics.


----------



## maxpudding

mordy said:


> I am using a Swiss precision tool as a scraper - just kidding: a little pen knife with a dull thin blade that reaches in between the pins:
> 
> Anything will do - scissors, knife etc. I also use a large magnifying glass that illuminates that makes it easy to see the oxidation and corrosion - also useful for identifying small faded lettering on tubes:
> (picture only for illustration)
> ...



Thanks for the tips and info Mordy!


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Good pointers for cleaning tube pins... Yeah the scraping method is probably better than the oil cleaning methods like Deoixit they actually have, really snake oil, LOL! and Mordy you said you read read about it in the 40's? But your face looks so young in the photo above
> 
> 
> Interesting you tried connecting your amp to a surge protector and didn't like the sound; possibly those don't do much for improvement of fidelity anyway. Well I'm not sure how many people on this thread do it, but a number of users across Head-Fi with different amps including me use something called Power Filtering, or power conditioner. This acts as not only a surge protector but it can something extraordinary with the sound, improving the fidelity by giving it cleaner power with a black background. A bigger difference is usually had though with also a thicker accompanying power cable. You may be interested to research those topics.


Hi DL,
The article I read was written in the 1940’s but I read it a couple of years ago. I was born in the 40’s - the picture of the magnifying glass doesn’t feature me; it is just from an ad.


----------



## hpamdr (May 7, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> Good pointers for cleaning tube pins... Yeah the scraping method is probably better than the oil cleaning methods like Deoixit they actually have, really snake oil, LOL! and Mordy you said you read read about it in the 40's? But your face looks so young in the photo above
> 
> 
> Interesting you tried connecting your amp to a surge protector and didn't like the sound; possibly those don't do much for improvement of fidelity anyway. Well I'm not sure how many people on this thread do it, but a number of users across Head-Fi with different amps including me use something called Power Filtering, or power conditioner. This acts as not only a surge protector but it can something extraordinary with the sound, improving the fidelity by giving it cleaner power with a black background. A bigger difference is usually had though with also a thicker accompanying power cable. You may be interested to research those topics.


Power conditioner usually have good effect specially if you have many electric equipment at home without HiFi dedicated line.... Consumer part for TV, personal computer  could be wose than nothing due to the built quality.
The main parts are :
Protection for surge (varistor)
First stage a DC blocker part which prevent hum in transformer it is a simple circuit with fast diode, capacitor and coil.* For tube amp this is the most efficient part !*
Second Stage could be low impedance isolation transformer. Or Voltage reconstruction like for inverter    (This intermediate part is optional)
Next Stage is good RFI Filters  Cleanup high frequencies. (Most of the audio equipment have RFI filter integrated with the power)
All lines should be connected with oversized wire or copper bar.

Some amplifier include RFI filter and DC blocker circuit so usage of power conditioner in not really useful except for the protection part.


----------



## gibosi

DecentLevi said:


> Good pointers for cleaning tube pins... Yeah the scraping method is probably better than the oil cleaning methods like Deoixit



For octals, and other tubes with large pins, I use 200-grit sandpaper to clean the pins. But for all-glass miniatures, 9-pins and 7-pins, I use a dull knife to scrape the pins, similar to Mordy.


----------



## hpamdr

gibosi said:


> For octals, and other tubes with large pins, I use 200-grit sandpaper to clean the pins. But for all-glass miniatures, 9-pins and 7-pins, I use a dull knife to scrape the pins, similar to Mordy.


 I'm using an old stripping tweezers (likee fish bone tweezers used for coated wire) and isopropyl alcohol as contact cleaning once scrapped.


----------



## mordy

hpamdr said:


> I'm using an old stripping tweezers (likee fish bone tweezers used for coated wire) and isopropyl alcohol as contact cleaning once scrapped.


Want a fancier DIY tube pin cleaner? Take a little shot glass, fill It with sand. Then take a little piece of cardboard, cut a circle to fit inside the glass, make holes for the tube pins in the cardboard.
Insert the tube into the cardboard, stick it into the sand, and turn around the tube for a little while.
The pins come out shiny - just wipe off the pins when done.
Works well!


----------



## mordy

Here is a question: Even if the volume control is down to zero on the headphone amp, is it possible that a defective tube can emit a pop loud enough to damage headphones?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 8, 2020)

mordy said:


> Here is a question: Even if the volume control is down to zero on the headphone amp, is it possible that a defective tube can emit a pop loud enough to damage headphones?



Yes, turning down the volume won't have any effect.  By having the volume control down, you are attenuating the input signal from the RCAs, which does not affect the output tubes' connection to the output.  The tubes are always on, amplifying, and connected, you are just changing what goes in


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 8, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> Hi guys would you say this is Fivre 6J5GT is any good? And about how much is a reasonable price?



Since you brought up these tubes DL, I spotted the pair I own in the "6J5 drawer" and decided to give them a listen.  I think you will be very happy with them 




One interesting observation I've made: tube hierarchies I created in my mind based on listening impressions in the GOTL have fallen apart with a CCS load applied.  This goes for both 6J5 and MH4-family tubes.  The CCS is something of an equalizer, bringing all tubes closer together in performance, but accentuating different characteristics.  The differences are still there, but the timbres have changed.  A top tube in the GOTL might be taken down a peg or two in favor of those that were further down the ladder before.  It has been a fun experience re-listening to them all.

Glenn often uses CCS loads in his SET amps, so maybe others will have a similar experience!


----------



## 2359glenn

Hi all
I am on Lucy’s I-PAD have no internet yet. Supposed to get equipment next week Specttrum will not come to the house because of coved.
Plug and pray if we get the equipment.
Still only 1/2 unpacked what a ordeal moving is.
Start new job on Monday they have machines waiting for me to fix. The owner of the company is antsy calling me every day.
The pressure is on.
Have a great weekend 
Glenn


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Hi all
> I am on Lucy’s I-PAD have no internet yet. Supposed to get equipment next week Specttrum will not come to the house because of coved.
> Plug and pray if we get the equipment.
> Still only 1/2 unpacked what a ordeal moving is.
> ...



Glad the move went okay Glenn, good luck starting the new job and fixing those machines, you'll nail it! (no pun intended ).


----------



## Celty

2359glenn said:


> Hi all
> I am on Lucy’s I-PAD have no internet yet. Supposed to get equipment next week Specttrum will not come to the house because of coved.
> Plug and pray if we get the equipment.
> Still only 1/2 unpacked what a ordeal moving is.
> ...


Sounds like a real PIA, but glad you are making progress in your transition, best wishes with the new job.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glad the move went okay Glenn, good luck starting the new job and fixing those machines, you'll nail it! (no pun intended ).



The company that made the machines can’t get them running I used to work for them in the past.
I am a master of getting old electronics working again as long as I can get old chips like D to A converters that have problems 
In these machines.
I love a chalang.


----------



## leftside

2359glenn said:


> The company that made the machines can’t get them running I used to work for them in the past.
> I am a master of getting old electronics working again as long as I can get old chips like D to A converters that have problems
> In these machines.
> I love a chalang.


If you are the only person who can get these machines working, then I hope it is also a "cha-ching" $$'s.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glad the move went okay Glenn, good luck starting the new job and fixing those machines, *you'll nail it! *(no pun intended ).


Better than screw it...   (pun intended!!!)


----------



## whirlwind

Woke up to this a little while ago.

Gotta Luv Ohio Weather


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Woke up to this a little while ago.
> 
> Gotta Luv Ohio Weather



I'm used to snow in April, but May?!  W-T-F Ohio.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> I'm used to snow in April, but May?!  W-T-F Ohio.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised.




I know, right!  I went to the post office this morning and the temp said 30 degrees and feels like 23.
I also saw a mailman loading his truck with shorts on


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> I know, right!  I went to the post office this morning and the temp said 30 degrees and feels like 23.
> I also saw a mailman loading his truck with shorts on


Here in NorCal - it hit 92F yesterday...


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Here in NorCal - it hit 92F yesterday...




You sir are living the life!

If I could have somewhere between 70F and 80F for the bigger part of the year, I would definitely be living the dream.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> You sir are living the life!
> 
> If I could have somewhere between 70F and 80F for the bigger part of the year, I would definitely be living the dream.


Between 70F and 80F would be nice. Been there mostly in the last few weeks 
Yesterday was just too hot!


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> You sir are living the life!
> 
> If I could have somewhere between 70F and 80F for the bigger part of the year, I would definitely be living the dream.


Medellin Colombia. City of eternal Spring.

It's 23 (centigrade) here today - just in time for the further relaxing of the COVID-19 restrictions. Time for me to pull out some of the fans for the amps that were mentioned a few pages back.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 9, 2020)

leftside said:


> Medellin Colombia. City of eternal Spring.
> 
> It's 23 (centigrade) here today - just in time for the further relaxing of the COVID-19 restrictions. Time for me to pull out some of the fans for the amps that were mentioned a few pages back.



A friend of mine is Colombian, I've been meaning to take a trip with his recommendations.  Nearly went last year, but guess where we went instead?  Vancouver Island 

Here is a photo from the top of Lone Cone Mountain in Tofino, the most brutal "hike" I have ever done, if you can call it that, took a water taxi to the island, 2,400 ft straight up through rainforest, 6 hours round trip, but the view was worth it.


----------



## robo24

It's unusually cold for May where I live. It got down to 68F overnight! It even got down to 63 for a couple hours in January.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> A friend of mine is Colombian, I've been meaning to take a trip with his recommendations.  Nearly went last year, but guess where we went instead?  Vancouver Island
> 
> Here is a photo from the top of Lone Cone Mountain in Tofino, the most brutal "hike" I have ever done, if you can call it that, took a water taxi to the island, 2,400 ft straight up through rainforest, 6 hours round trip, but the view was worth it.


That's quite the coincidence my friend, as my wife is Colombian... and you came to visit my hometown last year...


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, turning down the volume won't have any effect.  By having the volume control down, you are attenuating the input signal from the RCAs, which does not affect the output tubes' connection to the output.  The tubes are always on, amplifying, and connected, you are just changing what goes in


Thanks, that’s what I thought. So it seems to me that you should always plug in sacrificial headphones first to make sure that everything is the way it is supposed to be.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Woke up to this a little while ago.
> 
> Gotta Luv Ohio Weather



Nice view ! Looks like rain but that's snow.


----------



## mordy

BTW, we had a snow squall here today but except for a little snow on the cars, nothing stuck. 36F now and windy - brrrrr.
Tomorrow it is supposed to reach into the low 60s.
But my Bendix tubes reach 168C.....well, that is around 335F. More about it later.....


----------



## mordy (May 10, 2020)

More R&R (Reach and Recoil - soon you'll understand lol):
The other night I decided to roll a 12V tube. It was after midnight and the GOTL had been running for many hours. Shut off the amp, waited for the capacitors to discharge until no sound, and pulled out the 6V driver tube. Put my hand in the back of the amp to reach the voltage switch to turn it to 12V.
*OUCH!!! *I instinctively pulled my arm away. By mistake I had touched the Bendix power tube with the inside of my forearm! 168C left a nice impression on my arm. I ran to my refrigerator and put on two ice cubes on the 1 1/2" 1st degree burn. After waiting a while I put on Vaseline and a dressing on the wound. I'll survive - Google said to leave possible blisters alone (no blisters though).
Time for damage assessment. The tube was intact but at an angle. Straightened it out, but something was wrong. Pulled out the tube with the socket saver and realized that the guide pin of the socket saver had broken off. Couldn't get out the guide pin in the chassis socket, disconnected everything and turned the amp upside to shake out the little plastic piece. Nyet, would not come out. Tried to pry it out with a thin screwdriver; did not work. Finally put in a small needle noose pliers, extended it, and was able to get the piece out.
Marked the socket saver with a little tape arrow to indicate the location of the guide pin.
Reassembled everything, admiring the heft and build quality of the amp and turned it on. Arm is hurting. The fan was shaking terribly as if it needed a wheel alignment. Had to take off the fan where it was mounted under the shelf and inspect it. Connected it again, still shaking like crazy. Further inspection revealed that one of the eight fan blades had broken off. Goodbye fan.
Went to my box of old PC parts and found another fan - smaller, but OK. Rigged it up (using two 3" fans now) and all is well again.
So what is the lesson? Not to reach for the voltage switch when you are sleepy? Wear long sleeve shirts? (The burn wasn't that bad and it does not hurt; just a large red spot now...)
Another memorable day tube rolling.....


----------



## maxpudding

mordy said:


> More R&R (Reach and Recoil - soon you'll understand lol):
> The other night I decided to roll a 12V tube. It was after midnight and the GOTL had been running for many hours. Shut off the amp, waited for the capacitors to discharge until no sound, and pulled out the 6V driver tube. Put my hand in the back of the amp to reach the voltage switch to turn it to 12V.
> *OUCH!!! *I instinctively pulled my arm away. By mistake I had touched the Bendix power tube with the inside of my forearm! 168C left a nice impression on my arm. I ran to my refrigerator and put on two ice cubes on the 1 1/2" 1st degree burn. After waiting a while I put on Vaseline and a dressing on the wound. I'll survive - Google said to leave possible blisters alone (no blisters though).
> Time for damage assessment. The tube was intact but at an angle. Straightened it out, but something was wrong. Pulled out the tube with the socket saver and realized that the guide pin of the socket saver had broken off. Couldn't get out the guide pin in the chassis socket, disconnected everything and turned the amp upside to shake out the little plastic piece. Nyet, would not come out. Tried to pry it out with a thin screwdriver; did not work. Finally put in a small needle noose pliers, extended it, and was able to get the piece out.
> ...



ouch! Reminds me of the time when I had an incident with a hot oven. Nothing too serious.

hope you’ll feel better Mordy!


----------



## mordy

maxpudding said:


> ouch! Reminds me of the time when I had an incident with a hot oven. Nothing too serious.
> 
> hope you’ll feel better Mordy!


Thanks - I just have a red warning sign on my arm now.....no pain


----------



## mordy

Tube amps aren’t for everybody. I read about a guy who loved his amp but had to sell it because his children couldn’t stay away from it, and other people complained that pet cats found the amp irresistible.


----------



## 2359glenn

M


mordy said:


> More R&R (Reach and Recoil - soon you'll understand lol):
> The other night I decided to roll a 12V tube. It was after midnight and the GOTL had been running for many hours. Shut off the amp, waited for the capacitors to discharge until no sound, and pulled out the 6V driver tube. Put my hand in the back of the amp to reach the voltage switch to turn it to 12V.
> *OUCH!!! *I instinctively pulled my arm away. By mistake I had touched the Bendix power tube with the inside of my forearm! 168C left a nice impression on my arm. I ran to my refrigerator and put on two ice cubes on the 1 1/2" 1st degree burn. After waiting a while I put on Vaseline and a dressing on the wound. I'll survive - Google said to leave possible blisters alone (no blisters though).
> Time for damage assessment. The tube was intact but at an angle. Straightened it out, but something was wrong. Pulled out the tube with the socket saver and realized that the guide pin of the socket saver had broken off. Couldn't get out the guide pin in the chassis socket, disconnected everything and turned the amp upside to shake out the little plastic piece. Nyet, would not come out. Tried to pry it out with a thin screwdriver; did not work. Finally put in a small needle noose pliers, extended it, and was able to get the piece out.
> ...



Moody I have done this several times and never learned.
Mostly from a capacitor ESR meter I built 40 years ago. I have it on my bench and it uses a 117L7 tube that gets really hot.
The 117 volt heater puts off Some heat it is a rectifier and output pentode hooked as a high frequency osalator.
Use it to find bad electrolytic capacitors when trouble shooting so it is right on my bench in my work space.
Burned my arm I don’t know how many times. Built a SS one that I use at work much safer no burnes.


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> If you are the only person who can get these machines working, then I hope it is also a "cha-ching" $$'s.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Yes it is.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> Woke up to this a little while ago.
> 
> Gotta Luv Ohio Weather



Must be global warming.
It has been in the 70s here but the heat will be on in the a couple off weeks.
Move further south heat and humidity.


----------



## Celty

2359glenn said:


> Moody I have done this several times and never learned.


Ha, reminds me of every 4th of July when I was a kid. Firecrackers were cheap then, and we always had plenty to keep us busy all day. We loved tossing them individually against imaginary adversaries (sometimes with props like plastic soldiers). Inevitably every year a firecracker would surprise me and go off in my hand. Hurt like hell, but did I ever learn? Hell no, it was just the price I paid for all that fun


----------



## mordy

Here is a picture of a tube with an interesting getter construction:




The getter is very substantial, like a truss for a bridge, and the getter cup is large and dimpled - no wimpy goal post here. This is an Amperex 6DJ8 tube. Tried it with the EL3N/6080 but not a good match - did not sound especially good.
Now, I wanted to take of picture of the tube I have. It has a label on it that says Tektronix. This company is still in existence, and in the 60's and later they made among other things oscilloscopes that used a lot of tubes. Only the best tubes were purchased for their advanced equipment, and they were carefully matched. You can still sometimes find tubes for sale in matched packages from them.
Anyhow, to make a long story short, I put aside the tube before taking the picture, and now I cannot find it.... I am sure that I am the only one who misplaces tubes lol...
Problem is that my desk is  v e r y  messy. I know that three inches down, at around 1 o'clock, I can find what I am looking for, but this time it was not there. However, if I clean up and organize my desk (did it once or twice), I cannot find anything anymore....
I am sure that it will show up one day - I still have the empty box as proof that I have it. Oh, and I am also looking for a Hytron 6BS8 but I have no idea what happened to that one.


----------



## chrisdrop

Firstly, Glenn, I hope you are managing well with all the action in your life. 

Question on the 76 tube. @Zachik's handy compatibility reference has the 76 as needing a 76 to 6SN7 adapter. I think the 76 tube is an alt base of 6P5 / predecessor to the 6P6/6C5/6J5 chain of tubes and would need a _dual adapter_? Is that right? The interest in 76s tubes was inspired by @leftside's post on another thread (which was initially by @gibosi on this thread).

I hope everyone is happy and well, all things considered. Lots of listening here. Last night UK basically said it has 2 more months of lockdown-like conditions with some weakening of constraints through that period. I suspect a lot more listening time here at home...


----------



## hpamdr

2359glenn said:


> Hi all
> I am on Lucy’s I-PAD have no internet yet. Supposed to get equipment next week Specttrum will not come to the house because of coved.
> Plug and pray if we get the equipment.
> Still only 1/2 unpacked what a ordeal moving is.
> ...


I wish you a great day in your new position. I hope you will have plenty of new challenges to repair maintain many machines and build new ones.


----------



## gibosi (May 11, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> Question on the 76 tube. @Zachik's handy compatibility reference has the 76 as needing a 76 to 6SN7 adapter. I think the 76 tube is an alt base of 6P5 / predecessor to the 6P6/6C5/6J5 chain of tubes and would need a _dual adapter_? Is that right? The interest in 76s tubes was inspired by @leftside's post on another thread (which was initially by @gibosi on this thread).



Yes, I simply asked one of the Chinese adapter vendors to make a 76 to 6SN7GT adapter.


----------



## leftside

chrisdrop said:


> Firstly, Glenn, I hope you are managing well with all the action in your life.
> 
> Question on the 76 tube. @Zachik's handy compatibility reference has the 76 as needing a 76 to 6SN7 adapter. I think the 76 tube is an alt base of 6P5 / predecessor to the 6P6/6C5/6J5 chain of tubes and would need a _dual adapter_? Is that right? The interest in 76s tubes was inspired by @leftside's post on another thread (which was initially by @gibosi on this thread).
> 
> I hope everyone is happy and well, all things considered. Lots of listening here. Last night UK basically said it has 2 more months of lockdown-like conditions with some weakening of constraints through that period. I suspect a lot more listening time here at home...


Yes dual adapter 2 * 76 to 6SN7. I also have one of those. I should pull it out and compare to using the 76 in the 6J5 sockets. Cleaned up a couple more Mazda and Visseaux 76 that I'll try later in the week.

Still "social-distancing" here, with further opening up starting next weekend. The beaches were very busy this weekend here! But amazingly we've had very few cases (so far...)
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...ncouver-cue-outrage-on-social-media-1.5563949


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Tube amps aren’t for everybody. I read about a guy who loved his amp but had to sell it because his children couldn’t stay away from it, and other people complained that pet cats found the amp irresistible.



The guy from the Schiit thread who had his cat pee in his Asgard while she was sleeping atop it (because if it's warm then it's made for sits right?) is still the post that has made me laugh the hardest in all my years on this forum.  Washed it out with a HOSE and let it sit out to dry a couple of days and when he turned it back on the thing STILL WORKED.


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> Yes dual adapter 2 * 76 to 6SN7. I also have one of those. I should pull it out and compare to using the 76 in the 6J5 sockets.


Looking forward to read your 76 vs. 6J5 comparison (hoping you hate the 76... at least my wallet does... )


----------



## leftside

Zachik said:


> Looking forward to read your 76 vs. 6J5 comparison (hoping you hate the 76... at least my wallet does... )


Sorry - I like the 76 tubes  I just haven't tried the 76 tubes in the 6SN7 socket yet - only tried in the 6J5 sockets...


----------



## mordy

Are those the tubes that Glenn used to use?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Are those the tubes that Glenn used to use?



I think it is likely that Glenn has used almost every tube out there at one time. 

But recently, I believe the last major change was to swap out directed-heated 26 in one of his pre-amps.


----------



## mordy

That’s what I meant - I shall stand corrected. Thanks


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 11, 2020)

gibosi said:


> But recently, I believe the last major change was to swap out directed-heated 26 in one of his pre-amps.



Glenn jumped on the REN904 train with me when I posted some drool-worthy pictures on the thread many months ago, glad someone else was crazy enough to invest in these tubes.  It was a risk, but happy to say we are both very satisfied, they are quite good.

Listening right now in fact after rearranging some furniture.  Any moment now, Harrison Ford is going to appear behind me and tell me they belong in a museum...


----------



## Monsterzero

Who here( looking at you @L0rdGwyn and @gibosi ) has tried the Fivre 6bx7s?
There is a pair on eBay from a seller who only has a couple hundred transactions,and including shipping it comes out to over $120.00 . Quite steep for a pair of 6bx7s.
Are these worth the investment,or are they only marginally better than others?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 11, 2020)

Monsterzero said:


> Who here( looking at you @L0rdGwyn and @gibosi ) has tried the Fivre 6bx7s?
> There is a pair on eBay from a seller who only has a couple hundred transactions,and including shipping it comes out to over $120.00 . Quite steep for a pair of 6bx7s.
> Are these worth the investment,or are they only marginally better than others?



Hey D - I assembled an octet over a period of time, but they were expensive...I probably paid $40-50 a tube on average (!!!), had to source them from some rather obscure places.  When I had the GOTL, my 1A and 1B 6BX7 tubes were the Toshibas and Fivres, Toshibas were my daily driver.  I think they are very good, but it would probably take quite a bit of time to assemble a set.  There was another pair on eBay for several weeks that recently disappeared, not sure if someone here bought them or what...around the same price, but they were the later side-getter construction.

I would say in terms of price-to-performance, they probably are not worth the cost/effort.  I think one of the better 6BX7 that is relatively easy to find still are the RCA clear top side getters.

Edit: yes, looks like someone bought them unfortunately, I nearly did myself.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FIVRE-6bx7gt-Pair-NOS-NIB-new-Matched-Pair-Same-Code-Made-in-Italy-/233496355413?hash=item365d77a255:g:YO8AAOSwNd1eSFDZ&nma=true&si=NnsIq4hfw1zCulNZO%2FxxND6fJVw%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Who here( looking at you @L0rdGwyn and @gibosi ) has tried the Fivre 6bx7s?
> There is a pair on eBay from a seller who only has a couple hundred transactions,and including shipping it comes out to over $120.00 . Quite steep for a pair of 6bx7s.
> Are these worth the investment,or are they only marginally better than others?



To me, it comes down to personal preferences and system synergy. The Fivre sound is all about the mid-range. Similar to the Fivre 6SN7GT, the mid-range on the 6BX7 is front and center. If this is a sound you prefer, then the Fivre 6BX7 is worth getting if you can find them at a reasonable price. That said, over $120 for a pair would seem to be too steep. I can say that with the right rectifier and driver, they are among my favorites.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> Who here( looking at you @L0rdGwyn and @gibosi ) has tried the Fivre 6bx7s?
> There is a pair on eBay from a seller who only has a couple hundred transactions,and including shipping it comes out to over $120.00 . Quite steep for a pair of 6bx7s.
> Are these worth the investment,or are they only marginally better than others?


The guy is dodgy. Sent me a Fivre tube in the past that had a broken pin guide (not advertised). The replacement had a weak left channel. And no way are those tubes NOS/NIB. I have a few Fivre 6BX7GT, but I wouldn't pay 100 euro for a pair - even genuine NOS/NIB.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

My experience rolling various 6BX7 tubes in the GOTL was that they are quite close in terms of subjective performance, much closer than different makes of other common OTL power tubes.  The differences are there, but more a matter of tone than technical fidelity.  Unless you are overly curious and want to try them all, most are probably best off getting a nice sextet and calling it a day.  Interestingly, given the original application of these tubes in television CRTs, they did not need to be well-matched in terms of linearity, so distortion can vary significantly from tube to tube.  The measurements I made in the GOTL confirmed this; swapping two tubes between channels could double the second harmonic in one and halve it in the other.  Of the 6BX7s I measured, the Tung-Sols had the most consistently low distortion.  Funny thing is, I liked them the least!  I think I just like distortion, maybe my ears are broken


----------



## gibosi

Yesterday I was rummaging through my collection and realized that I hadn't listened to the GEC BL63 / VR102 for a long time. This tube has the same pin out as the 6F8G, and if the lead wire is long enough, you can use the same adapter. However, as someone else once noted, the BL63 is a 6F8G on steroids. While the 6F8G draws only 0.6 amps, the BL63 draws 1.3 amps. 

For those who enjoy the GEC sound and have an amp with a 6SN7 socket, this is a nice tube.


----------



## DecentLevi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glenn jumped on the REN904 train with me when I posted some drool-worthy pictures on the thread many months ago, glad someone else was crazy enough to invest in these tubes.  It was a risk, but happy to say we are both very satisfied, they are quite good.
> 
> Listening right now in fact after rearranging some furniture.  Any moment now, Harrison Ford is going to appear behind me and tell me they belong in a museum...


Very nice color and gloss on your Glenn amp. Did you customize that in-house or from Glenn? I was interested in going with a gunmetal grey for my upcoming amp, but I was told from another member it can add weeks delay and cost around $300 extra. Glenn said spraypaint is not a good option as it will chip off. I wonder if there's any 'middle option', like sanding it down and spraypainting it myself or something. But that would likely necessitate separation of the chassis from the internals which may damage something.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 13, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> Very nice color and gloss on your Glenn amp. Did you customize that in-house or from Glenn? I was interested in going with a gunmetal grey for my upcoming amp, but I was told from another member it can add weeks delay and cost around $300 extra. Glenn said spraypaint is not a good option as it will chip off. I wonder if there's any 'middle option', like sanding it down and spraypainting it myself or something. But that would likely necessitate separation of the chassis from the internals which may damage something.



Hey DL - it actually isn't a Glenn amp, it was made by me, but it shares some aesthetic features to Glenn's amplifiers - the chassis maker, Lundahl shields and Goldpoint pot.

The chassis maker is called Landfall Systems, run by a nice guy named Dave.  He does the machining of the aluminum parts, then uses an anodizing shop local to him to do the plating.  There are a few shops he uses, some have more color options than others.  Black and silver are cheapest, it does cost more to get a different color, like gold.  I think the total cost for the chassis is around $200 for black or silver, $300 for a different color.  It can add wait time.  In my case, the shop screwed up the gold plating no fewer than four times!  So it took three months to receive it.  On the other hand, my second amp was done in silver, and I had the chassis in a few weeks.

I have been meaning to ask Dave if he has ever gone through a powder coating shop, I might be interested in a flat color myself for the next project, should be more robust than paint.  I will let you know what he says when I ask him.


----------



## DecentLevi

@L0rdGwyn thanks much but I'm in a bit of a tight spot financially so looking for some sort of alternative option to recolor the chassis. Go ahead and ask them though if any really cheap options though. Hmmm about spray painting maybe even if it doesn't chip off, the sanding may result in a very un-even result?


----------



## Zachik

DecentLevi said:


> @L0rdGwyn thanks much but I'm in a bit of a tight spot financially so looking for some sort of alternative option to recolor the chassis. Go ahead and ask them though if any really cheap options though. Hmmm about spray painting maybe even if it doesn't chip off, the sanding may result in a very un-even result?


DL - I would suggest you ask Dave @ Landfall directly.  He is a very responsive and nice guy all around!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 13, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> @L0rdGwyn thanks much but I'm in a bit of a tight spot financially so looking for some sort of alternative option to recolor the chassis. Go ahead and ask them though if any really cheap options though. Hmmm about spray painting maybe even if it doesn't chip off, the sanding may result in a very un-even result?



No worries, we'll see what he says, sorry to hear you are in a tight spot.  Depending on the footprint of your planned build, Glenn typically uses a $100 silver/black chassis, the one you see most GOTLs in, so that is probably the cheapest if everything fits, it is 12"x12".  The Landfall in silver or black (or maybe gray is cheap too?) would probably be $150-200, but the dimensions are customized.  If you want to go cheaper than $100, maybe Glenn could build the amp in a Hammond chassis, you might find something reasonably priced from them in gray.

Obviously this is all up to Glenn's judgement, just brainstorming here!  You could reach out to Dave at Landfall like @Zachik says, he might be able to tell you the most budget-friendly option they offer.


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey DL - it actually isn't a Glenn amp, it was made by me, but it shares some aesthetic features to Glenn's amplifiers - the chassis maker, Lundahl shields and Goldpoint pot.
> 
> The chassis maker is called Landfall Systems, run by a nice guy named Dave.  He does the machining of the aluminum parts, then uses an anodizing shop local to him to do the plating.  There are a few shops he uses, some have more color options than others.  Black and silver are cheapest, it does cost more to get a different color, like gold.  I think the total cost for the chassis is around $200 for black or silver, $300 for a different color.  It can add wait time.  In my case, the shop screwed up the gold plating no fewer than four times!  So it took three months to receive it.  On the other hand, my second amp was done in silver, and I had the chassis in a few weeks.
> 
> I have been meaning to ask Dave if he has ever gone through a powder coating shop, I might be interested in a flat color myself for the next project, should be more robust than paint.  I will let you know what he says when I ask him.



The anodizer that screwed up four times wouldn't have happened to be called Pioneer Metal Finishing would it?  Those guys gave me headaches at work for 5 years.

I think there is a lot of potential in the powder coating route.  It shouldn't be too hard to find a shop that can apply a consistent finish and done correctly it's actually quite a bit more durable than an anodize finish is.  The wild card is anodizing makes the chassis electrically non-conductive where as most powdercoat processes will not.  That may or may not be meaningful to the grounding properties of the amp.  One of the things a lot of people don't know about anodizing is that even if you strip the color off you may still have anodized surface beneath because the process penetrates several dozen microns into the material.  The top surface of the anodize layer that contains the color dye only represents a fraction of the total layer thickness.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> The anodizer that screwed up four times wouldn't have happened to be called Pioneer Metal Finishing would it?  Those guys gave me headaches at work for 5 years.
> 
> I think there is a lot of potential in the powder coating route.  It shouldn't be too hard to find a shop that can apply a consistent finish and done correctly it's actually quite a bit more durable than an anodize finish is.  The wild card is anodizing makes the chassis electrically non-conductive where as most powdercoat processes will not.  That may or may not be meaningful to the grounding properties of the amp.  One of the things a lot of people don't know about anodizing is that even if you strip the color off you may still have anodized surface beneath because the process penetrates several dozen microns into the material.  The top surface of the anodize layer that contains the color dye only represents a fraction of the total layer thickness.



Dave never mentioned their name, but it was a HUGE headache.  The guy who did the job finished it right before the holidays last year and was off for two weeks, but the finish was screwed up on one or two parts and he didn't DO one of the parts.  Dave brought it back to them multiple times and either they didn't match the color, they messed up the finish again...it was an ordeal.  Luckily the end result was very good.

I think the powder coating is a good option as well!  I think removing it for grounding wouldn't be a problem, it's nothing a Dremel can't handle.  I use a wire wheel attachment to remove the anodization from the Landfall chassis, works great, I'd imagine a similar approach would be fine for powder coating, or maybe something more abrasive.


----------



## raindownthunda (May 13, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Dave never mentioned their name, but it was a HUGE headache.  The guy who did the job finished it right before the holidays last year and was off for two weeks, but the finish was screwed up on one or two parts and he didn't DO one of the parts.  Dave brought it back to them multiple times and either they didn't match the color, they messed up the finish again...it was an ordeal.  Luckily the end result was very good.
> 
> I think the powder coating is a good option as well!  I think removing it for grounding wouldn't be a problem, it's nothing a Dremel can't handle.  I use a wire wheel attachment to remove the anodization from the Landfall chassis, works great, I'd imagine a similar approach would be fine for powder coating, or maybe something more abrasive.



+1 Powder coating is a great option if you're starting with an empty chasis. I got the aluminum top plate and transformer housing powder coated semi-gloss black for my Bottlehead Crack build and couldn’t be happier with how it turned out. They taped off the bottom of the chassis top plate so only the top got coated. It only cost $50 and turned out great. Not 100% sure, but I seriously doubt you would want to powdercoat the chassis with all of the electronics wired up... and I'm not sure Glenn wants to go through the hassle of finding a powdercoating shop for your chassis before doing the build


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> No worries, we'll see what he says, sorry to hear you are in a tight spot.  Depending on the footprint of your planned build, Glenn typically uses a $100 silver/black chassis, the one you see most GOTLs in, so that is probably the cheapest if everything fits, it is 12"x12".  The Landfall in silver or black (or maybe gray is cheap too?) would probably be $150-200, but the dimensions are customized.  If you want to go cheaper than $100, maybe Glenn could build the amp in a Hammond chassis, you might find something reasonably priced from them in gray.
> 
> Obviously this is all up to Glenn's judgement, just brainstorming here!  You could reach out to Dave at Landfall like @Zachik says, he might be able to tell you the most budget-friendly option they offer.


I can speak for myself and my experience. The extra cost of my GREAT (IMHO) looking blue anodized chassis with the added laser engraved front (and back) panels, compared to the plain chassis, was approx. $200. I figured since this amp is going to be a work of art by Glenn, it deserved to LOOK like one, and not just sound the part  
Can you put a price on one-of-a-kind piece of art? well, for the appearance part - yes!  $200


----------



## mordy

More R&R (resume and resubmit):
This morning I turned on my GOTL. NOTHING. No power - the reassuring blue light on the power button is gone. 
Pulled out the driver tube I just put in, tried without it, but no power.
A quick mental check - no power outages or storms; could it be a tripped circuit breaker. Checked the outlet - works fine.
Checked my mental file cabinet: Oh yes, didn't JV tell me once that the fuse went in his GOTL for no apparent reason (he has the same one as me)?
Disconnected everything, pulled out the amp. Where is the fuse? (Hint: Time to write a manual - at least two pages...)Then I remembered that JV said that it is a little drawer under the power cord receptacle. 



Since the writing was upside down I had to stand on my head to read it - just kidding; I took a picture with my phone and turned the phone upside down. And magnified it - comes with the age.....
Yep, that's it - took a little flat blade screwdriver and pried it open a little and then pulled out the drawer:



Let me see - it looks like the fuse blow. Why? Don't know; didn't do anything different - have to ask Glenn why. Maybe he anticipated this - the amp came with 4 fuses.
Here is the perp:



Put in the new fuse, and I am happy to report, all is well and back to normal.
Rest and Relaxation.
Another day in the life of a tube roller......


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> More R&R (resume and resubmit):
> This morning I turned on my GOTL. NOTHING. No power - the reassuring blue light on the power button is gone.
> Pulled out the driver tube I just put in, tried without it, but no power.
> A quick mental check - no power outages or storms; could it be a tripped circuit breaker. Checked the outlet - works fine.
> ...


When my 4v rectifier adapter went up in smoke the same thing happened to me. @UntilThen had to tell me where the fuse was located.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Finding a blown fuse is actually a good thing most of the time.  It means it has done it's job protecting other components.  Even if it didn't protect the amp from anything such as a surge the most harmless possibility is that the fuse itself is on the edge of being appropriately rated for the job it's doing and it finally gave up the ghost after being stressed, but all you are out is a dollar or so for another fuse.  My GOTL blew one the day I had my AKG headphones blown up by a naughty 5998 tube, and I also had a second one blow for no apparent reason.  The fuse that replaced that one has been in the amp for at least 5 years now so it didn't become a recurring thing.  Pretty sure they were the same rating and type.

When replacing the fuse yourself make sure you match type.  Don't replace a fast blow with a slow blow for example.


----------



## DecentLevi

@Xcalibur255 are you sure you meant anodizing makes the chassis electrically non-conductive and powder coating does not - rather than the other way around? Powder coating seems a bit rubbery or insulated in some way vs. the other that looks like it could carry electricity; just curious. And that would be interesting to hear an opinion from @2359glenn about how either one may affect the sonic performance, if there may be a good deal at a nearby shop near his new place, or if it's recommended to paint it while it's still connected to the circuitry.

Let me confirm if I got it right? This is an example of powder coating:

and this is anodizing:
 
I found a local place in Seattle called Seattle Powder Coat; the black photo above as well as the one below are examples of their work:
 
Something like this would be ideal to me:

The photo above is a Hammond chassis, and they have a taller one here for only $76.

I think I'm leaning towards the anodized type, unless I can find a powder coating option that looks somewhat more smooth / fine than the above examples.


----------



## raindownthunda (May 13, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> @Xcalibur255 are you sure you meant anodizing makes the chassis electrically non-conductive and powder coating does not - rather than the other way around? Powder coating seems a bit rubbery or insulated in some way vs. the other that looks like it could carry electricity; just curious. And that would be interesting to hear an opinion from @2359glenn about how either one may affect the sonic performance, if there may be a good deal at a nearby shop near his new place, or if it's recommended to paint it while it's still connected to the circuitry.
> 
> Let me confirm if I got it right? This is an example of powder coating:
> 
> ...



A powder coated surface would likely not be conductive. At least for the bottlehead amp (I would assume this applies to all amps?), the inside of the chasis needs to be bare metal to ensure the transformer is properly grounded. Powder coating can be done in a variety of textures and gloss levels (matte, satin, semi-gloss, full gloss, etc). If you want a shiner/reflective surface you would want semi-gloss or full-gloss. Here are a few pics of the semi-gloss powder coating I had done for my BHC by Northwest Powder Solutions (in Kent, WA).


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> Finding a blown fuse is actually a good thing most of the time.  It means it has done it's job protecting other components.  Even if it didn't protect the amp from anything such as a surge the most harmless possibility is that the fuse itself is on the edge of being appropriately rated for the job it's doing and it finally gave up the ghost after being stressed, but all you are out is a dollar or so for another fuse.  My GOTL blew one the day I had my AKG headphones blown up by a naughty 5998 tube, and I also had a second one blow for no apparent reason.  The fuse that replaced that one has been in the amp for at least 5 years now so it didn't become a recurring thing.  Pretty sure they were the same rating and type.
> 
> When replacing the fuse yourself make sure you match type.  Don't replace a fast blow with a slow blow for example.


I replaced the fuse with one of the spare ones that Glenn sent with the amp so I should be safe.


----------



## 2359glenn

DecentLevi said:


> @Xcalibur255 are you sure you meant anodizing makes the chassis electrically non-conductive and powder coating does not - rather than the other way around? Powder coating seems a bit rubbery or insulated in some way vs. the other that looks like it could carry electricity; just curious. And that would be interesting to hear an opinion from @2359glenn about how either one may affect the sonic performance, if there may be a good deal at a nearby shop near his new place, or if it's recommended to paint it while it's still connected to the circuitry.
> 
> Let me confirm if I got it right? This is an example of powder coating:
> 
> ...



Anodize is a insulator but a little grinding under the screw heads makes all the pieces electrically connect.
So it is fine to use anodizing.


----------



## Xcalibur255

@DecentLevi Respectfully, I believe you are over-thinking this a bit and that may be my fault for making the comment in the first place.  Glenn will be able to properly ground the amp regardless of how you have the surface finished.  The reason to pursue powder coating is for access to a much wider range of colors if that is your thing.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> So it is fine to use anodizing.


I have used anodizing for my 6EL3N, and Glenn was totally fine with it 
I would not have done it otherwise!


----------



## mordy

Came across this Acorn tube - a RCA 955. It is a triode, first appearing in 1934. Anybody knows anything about it?


----------



## A2029

Xcalibur255 said:


> @DecentLevi Respectfully, I believe you are over-thinking this a bit and that may be my fault for making the comment in the first place.  Glenn will be able to properly ground the amp regardless of how you have the surface finished.  The reason to pursue powder coating is for access to a much wider range of colors if that is your thing.




Truly mind blowing the number of color options for powder coating nowadays: https://www.prismaticpowders.com/shop/powder-coating-colors

I personally prefer the look of an anodized brushed aluminum over powder coating. Powder coating can often give a slight visual sense of "plastic" to some of the color choices (most powder coat uses epoxy or polyester resins). This is mainly seen when you are more up close to the powder coated part.


----------



## whirlwind

A2029 said:


> Truly mind blowing the number of color options for powder coating nowadays: https://www.prismaticpowders.com/shop/powder-coating-colors
> 
> I personally prefer the look of an anodized brushed aluminum over powder coating. Powder coating can often give a slight visual sense of "plastic" to some of the color choices (most powder coat uses epoxy or polyester resins). This is mainly seen when you are more up close to the powder coated part.




That glitter bomb powder coat looks killer!


----------



## gibosi

On the chance that anyone is looking for 

"Saga of Marconi Osram Valve
History of Valve-making"
by Barry Vyse

IMO, a "Buy It Now" price of approximately US $18.34 is a very good deal. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133410502981


----------



## L0rdGwyn

A2029 said:


> Truly mind blowing the number of color options for powder coating nowadays: https://www.prismaticpowders.com/shop/powder-coating-colors
> 
> I personally prefer the look of an anodized brushed aluminum over powder coating. Powder coating can often give a slight visual sense of "plastic" to some of the color choices (most powder coat uses epoxy or polyester resins). This is mainly seen when you are more up close to the powder coated part.



I like an anodized finish too and the minimalist look from a Landfall chassis.  In terms of aesthetic design though, it can be a little restrictive if you want to go for a specific look.  I've thought about going for a more vintage design on my next build, mostly inspired by a set of NOS panel ammeters a certain person pointed out to me  I thought it would be cool to match the look of the amp to some of the vintage equipment these meters were used in.


----------



## mordy

I like the looks of the Yamamoto meters:
https://jacmusic.com/Yamamoto/meters/index.html


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> I like the looks of the Yamamoto meters:
> https://jacmusic.com/Yamamoto/meters/index.html



They look very nice, but I'm sure the price is outrageous, considering what I paid for their sockets!


----------



## mordy (May 15, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> They look very nice, but I'm sure the price is outrageous, considering what I paid for their sockets!


Interesting though that you could put in just one meter and flick a little switch between channels (first large picture)


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 15, 2020)

mordy said:


> Interesting though that you could put in just one meter and flick a little switch between channels (first large picture)



Yes, this is done pretty often.  This is particularly helpful in parallel single ended design (two tubes per channel on the output), just have one meter per channel with a switch to change which tube which tube is being biased.  Pretty nifty!  No need to use four meters, that would take up quite a bit of space (and money).

Here is another amp that does it, 801A design from Arcturus Audio.

http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews2/arcturus/1.html


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> I like the looks of the Yamamoto meters:
> https://jacmusic.com/Yamamoto/meters/index.html




They make great stuff, but it comes with a big price tag also.


----------



## DecentLevi

I'm happy - Glenn told me that he will do an anodized chassis in my selected color at a very reasonable price. He said it will be a little smaller but he prefers it that way (I do too) and will get back to me as things evolve with his transition.



L0rdGwyn said:


> I like an anodized finish too and the minimalist look from a Landfall chassis.  In terms of aesthetic design though, it can be a little restrictive if you want to go for a specific look.  *I've thought about going for a more vintage design on my next build*, mostly inspired by a set of NOS panel ammeters a certain person pointed out to me  I thought it would be cool to match the look of the amp to some of the vintage equipment these meters were used in.


For your next vintage design, why not something 'eye catching' like one of these: 


:


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> They look very nice, but I'm sure the price is outrageous, considering what I paid for their sockets!


Haha. When I saw "Yamamoto" - my 1st thought was: $$$$$


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Haha. When I saw "Yamamoto" - my 1st thought was: $$$$$




I am assuming that your new amp has the Yamamoto sockets...I think Glenn will only use these sockets for EL3N tubes now.
They do leave their Chinese counterparts in the dust. I found the cheaper EL3N sockets to be pretty poorly made.


----------



## chrisdrop (May 16, 2020)

I got this pair of 6J5GT valves via eBay which just arrived. Do they look like genuine Fivre tubes? The only other ones I can find pictures of have different labels and more frosted writing on the glass itself. These have a faint "MM" printed on the glass, that is all. _The seller said the MM is for Navy (I guess like Italian version of JAN?) That seems to line up __here__._


----------



## leftside (May 16, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> I got this pair of 6J5GT valves via eBay which just arrived. Do they look like genuine Fivre tubes? The only other ones I can find pictures of have different labels and more frosted writing on the glass itself. These have a faint "MM" printed on the glass, that is all. _The seller said the MM is for Navy (I guess like Italian version of JAN?) That seems to line up __here__._


Look good and in great shape. I think I have a pair like that. As with most tube manufacturers, there are multiple variations depending upon the year produced.


----------



## chrisdrop

leftside said:


> Look good and in great shape. I think I have a pair like that. As with most tube manufacturers, there are multiple variations depending upon the year produced.


I took a flyer on them for ~30EUR. According to the seller, they were were in his preamp for a few months, then he sold the preamp. No box, sparse post text in Italian. Not NOS, but used. The seller had not too many sales, no tube sales. I thought it was worth the shot however. They arrived 100% intact. They are just in now - nice and quiet/ noise free.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> I took a flyer on them for ~30EUR. According to the seller, they were were in his preamp for a few months, then he sold the preamp. No box, sparse post text in Italian. Not NOS, but used. The seller had not too many sales, no tube sales. I thought it was worth the shot however. They arrived 100% intact. They are just in now - nice and quiet/ noise free.



Most definitely legit Fivre 6J5GT and are in great condition!  You got a good deal on those tubes I would say


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 16, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> I'm happy - Glenn told me that he will do an anodized chassis in my selected color at a very reasonable price. He said it will be a little smaller but he prefers it that way (I do too) and will get back to me as things evolve with his transition.
> 
> 
> For your next vintage design, why not something 'eye catching' like one of these:
> ...



Those certainly are vintage!  Cleaned up, I'm sure they look very nice, I'll keep them in mind.  Ultimately have to finalize the design and prototype it before committing to a chassis, so we'll see what we end up with, 801A is a tricky tube to design around.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> I am assuming that your new amp has the Yamamoto sockets...I think Glenn will only use these sockets for EL3N tubes now.


Correct - Glenn would only use Yamamoto sockets for EL3N. Having 6 of them been a significant % of the BOM... A good investment for the long run, though!


----------



## felix3650

Zachik said:


> Correct - Glenn would only use Yamamoto sockets for EL3N. Having 6 of them been a significant % of the BOM... A good investment for the long run, though!


Yup! PTFE (or more commonly known as Teflon) sockets used by Yamamoto have a very nice feeling to the touch. Smooth, non-sticking, hydrophobic and with antibacterial properties (ie bacteries don't stick to it), it's the perfect material for tube sockets. All this goodness comes with a price though...
I'm glad however that Glenn uses them for his top amp


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> I got this pair of 6J5GT valves via eBay which just arrived. Do they look like genuine Fivre tubes? The only other ones I can find pictures of have different labels and more frosted writing on the glass itself. These have a faint "MM" printed on the glass, that is all. _The seller said the MM is for Navy (I guess like Italian version of JAN?) That seems to line up __here__._



Hello Chris!!

Can't wait to hear your listening impressions of these jewels!!!
.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Came across this Acorn tube - a RCA 955. It is a triode, first appearing in 1934. Anybody knows anything about it?



Looks like a space ship!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> More R&R (resume and resubmit):
> This morning I turned on my GOTL. NOTHING. No power - the reassuring blue light on the power button is gone.
> Pulled out the driver tube I just put in, tried without it, but no power.
> A quick mental check - no power outages or storms; could it be a tripped circuit breaker. Checked the outlet - works fine.
> ...



Hello Mordy...

I had a fuse blow some months ago, like you, no idea what would have caused it.   Replaced it with one that Glenn supplied, no problems since.

Cheers!


----------



## DecentLevi

chrisdrop said:


> I got this pair of 6J5GT valves via eBay which just arrived. Do they look like genuine Fivre tubes? The only other ones I can find pictures of have different labels and more frosted writing on the glass itself. These have a faint "MM" printed on the glass, that is all. _The seller said the MM is for Navy (I guess like Italian version of JAN?) That seems to line up __here__._


Those have the same construction of the ones I bought last week. I'd also like to hear your impressions.


----------



## chrisdrop

Impressions on the new valves ASAP . I enthusiastically popped the Fivres in yesterday - but only for a bit. Given what I thought of as "questionable provenance" of the Fivres and their "used" status, I gave them an hour to warm, then around an hour on the sacrificial headphones. I was able to say "quiet" and a quick listen on my normal headphones said; "probably very nice".

I then realised I had _just_ a few hours before swapped in Mullard EL32 shoulder-types seen in the C3g slots pictured below. They are new and sound like they need time to burn in. I have had my "go-to" GEC 6J5 inputs w/ the EL32 _straight_ tubes (postal tubes like JV has). I think that is my most reliable, often returned to configuration. I want to get the shoulder-type Mullards burned in, and to isolate the effect of just changing those tubes. Therefore, I put the setup back as pictured. I'll let the EL32s pictured go for a week of many hours/day use. THEN I'll come back to the Fivres. 



I am _hoping_ the Mullard EL32s do burn in. So far, I have not had the patience to really let the Marconi straight glass EL32s or these Mullard shoulder types really burn in because the straight postal tubes are fully settled and sound so nice in this setup! I think the EL32s run pretty cool, so it may take a while...

Here are the "GPO" postal Mullard EL32s that have maintained their position int he amp for a while now...



I have been googling a bit to decipher the codes on these. General info on these tubes labelled CV 1052

It looks like: 

*CV = *Valves used by the British military Armed Services were marked with a  CV or "common valve" name which was defined by the  Inter-Service Technical Valve Committee in 1941
*KB/DA* (via this link)
*K* = designates a valve manufactured to specification K1001 or K1006;     
*B = *denotes qualification by a UK authority
*DA* = Mullard Radio Valve Co., Blackburn

How about the printed values visible on the left tube? These look like "MO 2" and "39 C2". Both tubes have the same markings. Not sure how to date them from this? Also, what is the "6914 with the up arrow looking thing" visible on the right tube? All fascinating!

Happy listening all.


----------



## mordy

Hi chrisdrop,
The most important symbols as far as we are concerned are the almost invisible gray letters on the bottom of the glass:



This is an EL32 tube that I have. The bottom row is the factory code and date code - it reads 
B 4 L 1.
B = Blackburn
4 = the year: 1964
L = the month (count the ABC on your fingers; when you run out of fingers and one more it is November lol): 
1 = week of the month
Your tube shows the following code: B 9 C 2. - Blackburn 1969 March second week. 
What about the 6914 on your tube? 
There is an old saying in medicine: "If you see hoof prints in the sand, think horse and not zebra."
So 6914 is the 14th week of 1969 - Voila! Second week of March 1969!
http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm


----------



## gibosi

chrisdrop said:


> Impressions on the new valves ASAP . I enthusiastically popped the Fivres in yesterday - but only for a bit. Given what I thought of as "questionable provenance" of the Fivres and their "used" status, I gave them an hour to warm, then around an hour on the sacrificial headphones. I was able to say "quiet" and a quick listen on my normal headphones said; "probably very nice".
> 
> I then realised I had _just_ a few hours before swapped in Mullard EL32 shoulder-types seen in the C3g slots pictured below. They are new and sound like they need time to burn in. I have had my "go-to" GEC 6J5 inputs w/ the EL32 _straight_ tubes (postal tubes like JV has). I think that is my most reliable, often returned to configuration. I want to get the shoulder-type Mullards burned in, and to isolate the effect of just changing those tubes. Therefore, I put the setup back as pictured. I'll let the EL32s pictured go for a week of many hours/day use. THEN I'll come back to the Fivres.
> 
> ...



The top row of characters:  M0 = EL32 and 2 = revision code. 
When a tube was first introduced, the revision code was "0". So in this case, "2" indicates that this was the second major revision.

And yes, as Mordy points out, "39C2" is actually "B9C2".


----------



## Zachik

Quick question for the tube experts and historians... Tubes labeled K-R are KenRad. Right?  Example:






What is the difference from tubes labeled KenRad?  Different time period?  (or is the K-R fakes / relabeled???)


----------



## mordy (May 17, 2020)

K-R is Ken-Rad (Kentucky Radio). The manufacturer was bought by GE in 1945 but the Ken-Rad name lasted into 1952.
What is the date code on the tube? (May also be something engraved on the bottom rim)
I have never heard of any K-R fakes - not worth the effort. Most fakes are the 6AS7 variety where famous names were put on Russian tubes.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> K-R is Ken-Rad (Kentucky Radio). The manufacturer was bought by GE in 1945 but the Ken-Rad name lasted into 1952.
> What is the date code on the tube? (May also be something engraved on the bottom rim)
> I have never heard of any K-R fakes - not worth the effort. Most fakes are the 6AS7 variety where famous names were put on Russian tubes.


Thanks mordy!!
Cannot see a date code... see: https://www.ebay.com/itm/K-R-Tubes-Electron-Radio-Tube-P-N-6J5-NEW-Free-Shipping/264717736509
I bought a couple from this listing, but did so this morning (do not have them in hand yet)


----------



## 2359glenn

Hi All
I have finally gotten internet !!!!
went back north yesterday to get more of our stuff. What a pain to move.
Going back next weekend for more.
One thing I am not used to living in town the power is horrible.  There are 6 houses hooked to the same transformer that I am on.
the lights are always flickering when big central air units come on. I am used to a transformer just hooked to my house no noise or crap from the neighbors.
At some point will have to build myself new amps with built in voltage regulators.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> One thing I am not used to living in town the power is horrible. There are 6 houses hooked to the same transformer that I am on.
> the lights are always flickering when big central air units come on. I am used to a transformer just hooked to my house no noise or crap from the neighbors.


Welcome to civilization, my friend!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Hi All
> I have finally gotten internet !!!!
> went back north yesterday to get more of our stuff. What a pain to move.
> Going back next weekend for more.
> ...



Glenn - one thing you can do, get a Topaz transformer like you used to have for your pool.  I have one, it is a monster, 2.5kVA and weighs 60lbs.  I have it wired for balanced power, +/- 60V for my whole stereo.  My wall power is absolute garbage, but it made a big difference, obvious improvement in sound.

It hides its ugly face in the corner behind an armchair.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glenn - one thing you can do, get a Topaz transformer like you used to have for your pool.  I have one, it is a monster, 2.5kVA and weighs 60lbs.  I have it wired for balanced power, +/- 60V for my whole stereo.  My wall power is absolute garbage, but it made a big difference, obvious improvement in sound.
> 
> It hides its ugly face in the corner behind an armchair.



I have a 2KV that I used to have the swimming pool filter plugged into for safety. I think I will use it again.
Won't help for power drops. Ether a power regenerater or make the amps with oversized filter capacitors with regulated B+.
My headphone OTL has two 4700uf filters might be enough for the power drops.
The power here sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Welcome to civilization, my friend!



This is far from civilization there is a cotton field across the street. I just am in a cluster of houses all hooked to one transformer.
If this was the city I wouldn't be here I like small towns were most people are friendly.
I don't need other peoples noise.  Heck I didn't even use LED bulbs because they produce noise.


----------



## Celty

2359glenn said:


> Hi All
> I have finally gotten internet !!!!
> went back north yesterday to get more of our stuff. What a pain to move.
> Going back next weekend for more.
> ...


Progress at least, this too shall pass..


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> This is far from civilization there is a cotton field across the street. I just am in a cluster of houses all hooked to one transformer.


Everything is relative... 
I live in a downtown, and my development has 200-300 units or so spread between 4 physical building at 6 story high each. No idea how good or bad the power is regulated, but obviously shared between many units.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I know the members of this thread appreciate a good tube picture, here is the Visseaux 6A5G with the MOV U18/20 in the back.  So purdy, so glowy.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I know the members of this thread appreciate a good tube picture, here is the Visseaux 6A5G with the MOV U18/20 in the back.  So purdy, so glowy.



nice glow !!!


----------



## leftside

Zachik said:


> I highly recommend: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G05A2MU/
> At lowest speed, I cannot hear it, and it is VERY effective in keeping the amp nice and cool.
> With headphones on, I cannot hear it at higher speeds - but honestly lowest speed is already VERY effective!


Yep works great. I have 4 of the larger ones on top of my power chassis. Really good for the summer. Thanks. Even on medium speed I would say these fans are very quiet - certainly not at a level you'll hear through headphones even from 3 feet away.


----------



## maxpudding

2359glenn said:


> Hi All
> I have finally gotten internet !!!!
> went back north yesterday to get more of our stuff. What a pain to move.
> Going back next weekend for more.
> ...



It sucks to move houses. I moved between 4 houses in two years all in a different city/town back in 2013-2015. More headache if they told me there’s no port for high speed broadband access in the area of my house anymore, and had to wait for months just to get a stable internet.

Glad to hear you are finally settling in, wish you all the best, Glenn!


----------



## chrisdrop

2359glenn said:


> This is far from civilization there is a cotton field across the street. I just am in a cluster of houses all hooked to one transformer.
> If this was the city I wouldn't be here I like small towns were most people are friendly.
> I don't need other peoples noise.  Heck I didn't even use LED bulbs because they produce noise.


Ugh - power noise! You know I had much pain with this. I am very glad to hear that you are in your new situation. May you settle well and quickly Glenn. I hope new work is good and that you get some peace and relaxation eventually.


----------



## hpamdr (May 18, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> I have a 2KV that I used to have the swimming pool filter plugged into for safety. I think I will use it again.
> Won't help for power drops. Ether a power regenerater or make the amps with oversized filter capacitors with regulated B+.
> My headphone OTL has two 4700uf filters might be enough for the power drops.
> The power here sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I used to have such issue at country side. 
RFI Filter, DC Filter, isolation transformer protect you against noise and also will help on voltage drop if you have "Big" capacitor (4x10K) in the DC parts but this will not helps if you have huge drop. The only way here is to have inverter with a good battery set !


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> I know the members of this thread appreciate a good tube picture, here is the Visseaux 6A5G with the MOV U18/20 in the back.  So purdy, so glowy.



Dang that is a nice fluorescence effect that tube has going on.  Have you watched it closely when there is music playing?  Sometimes the blue will move around in swirling patterns to the music.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> Dang that is a nice fluorescence effect that tube has going on.  Have you watched it closely when there is music playing?  Sometimes the blue will move around in swirling patterns to the music.



Isn't it?  Pretty nice looking  it was funny, they were glowing very brightly earlier in the day, I turned the amp off and swapped the two so I could get a good picture of the brighter one (better position for my camera), and it went away when I turned it back on HA!  Luckily it came back later in the day, at the time the photo was taken, part of it was sort of blinking, but I didn't see if it was in time with the music, I'll look today.


----------



## chrisdrop

chrisdrop said:


> Impressions on the new valves ASAP . I enthusiastically popped the Fivres in yesterday - but only for a bit. Given what I thought of as "questionable provenance" of the Fivres and their "used" status, I gave them an hour to warm, then around an hour on the sacrificial headphones. I was able to say "quiet" and a quick listen on my normal headphones said; "probably very nice".
> 
> I then realised I had _just_ a few hours before swapped in Mullard EL32 shoulder-types seen in the C3g slots pictured below. They are new and sound like they need time to burn in. I have had my "go-to" GEC 6J5 inputs w/ the EL32 _straight_ tubes (postal tubes like JV has). I think that is my most reliable, often returned to configuration. I want to get the shoulder-type Mullards burned in, and to isolate the effect of just changing those tubes. Therefore, I put the setup back as pictured. I'll let the EL32s pictured go for a week of many hours/day use. THEN I'll come back to the Fivres.
> 
> ...


I still find tube burn-in fascinating. At first, I struggled to keep the Mullard EL32 shoulders in (NOS 0hrs). They had some sort of subtle grit going and seemed to just remove what the other EL32s had added. Somewhere around ~25h of use and they started to change and relax. It is not subtle. They are enjoyable now putting back some nice space in the mids/uppers and roundness/control in the lower end. I suspect they will keep changing. I am glad I persisted. I have had the amp on for ~14h/ day every day, listening for a good portion of that on many days. After a week I should get to 100h or so and we'll see where they wind up. It is possible I guess they may take even longer to get to their final state as cooler running valves? 

Relatedly, I think the GEC 6J5s in those pictures did take probably 150-200h to get to their final state I think. I need to keep working on my patience, thus the "1 week per roll" rule I have been trying to apply!


----------



## mordy

There are no hard and fast rules but it seems to me that cool running tubes need more time to burn in. 
Some tubes change a little during burn in, and with others there is a very marked change. It also seems to me that the changes, when they happen, are by leaps and not gradual steps. 
Suddenly you realize: hey, what was that? Where did all that bass come from?
I do not need any convincing that burn in is real, but there are people who deny that there is any change and attribute it to your brain getting used to a certain sound.
My personal opinion is that burn in is real, but my brain also need time to adjust to a new sound picture and fully understand what you are hearing.
One consequence is that I am reluctant to give instant opinions on how certain tube combinations sound. Sometimes an initial positive impression changes to a “me too”, and sometimes it gets reinforced over time.
By me there is definitely a subconscious component in appreciating how something sounds, and it takes me time to bring it into my conscious mind.
Didn’t realize how philosophical I would be this morning.....


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> There are no hard and fast rules but it seems to me that cool running tubes need more time to burn in.
> Some tubes change a little during burn in, and with others there is a very marked change. It also seems to me that the changes, when they happen, are by leaps and not gradual steps.
> Suddenly you realize: hey, what was that? Where did all that bass come from?
> I do not need any convincing that burn in is real, but there are people who deny that there is any change and attribute it to your brain getting used to a certain sound.
> ...



The older the tube it takes more time to wake up and sound it's best.


----------



## Celty

2359glenn said:


> The older the tube it takes more time to wake up and sound it's best.


Love it when I learn something new


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> The older the tube it takes more time to wake up and sound it's best.


Do you mean warm-up or burn-in? Or both?
I did notice that the all metal 6C5/6J5 tubes need at least 1/2 hour to warm up and sound their best.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Do you mean warm-up or burn-in? Or both?
> I did notice that the all metal 6C5/6J5 tubes need at least 1/2 hour to warm up and sound their best.



Burn in.
Amd yes some tubes take 1/2 hr to sound there best.


----------



## Jazz du Look

L0rdGwyn said:


> Since you brought up these tubes DL, I spotted the pair I own in the "6J5 drawer" and decided to give them a listen.  I think you will be very happy with them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi,
I’m thinking about getting a Glenn and just getting my head around the entire endeavour. Is the amp pictured here a Glenn? I really like the proportions and look, but it appears different to all the other ones I’ve seen.
JDL


----------



## chrisdrop (May 20, 2020)

Jazz du Look said:


> Hi,
> I’m thinking about getting a Glenn and just getting my head around the entire endeavour. Is the amp pictured here a Glenn? I really like the proportions and look, but it appears different to all the other ones I’ve seen.
> JDL


That is not a Glenn amp, although I am sure he helped talk to the maker.
The maker/ thread of interest is here. @L0rdGwyn does make a pretty amp.

I think I have the only Glenn amp in the London area  Notwithstanding Covid-etc a listen would perhaps be in order.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Jazz du Look said:


> Hi,
> I’m thinking about getting a Glenn and just getting my head around the entire endeavour. Is the amp pictured here a Glenn? I really like the proportions and look, but it appears different to all the other ones I’ve seen.
> JDL



Sorry, I will stop posting amp pictures here, I didn't mean to confuse!  If you PM Glenn you could discuss an amp build based on the 45.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Burn in.
> Amd yes some tubes take 1/2 hr to sound there best.


Question to the tube experts regarding burn in:
Say I burn in a tube fully (200 hours or whatever), and not use it for 5 years. Would I need to burn in again (maybe a shorter burn-in), or would the changes that happen during burn-in remain for good?


----------



## gibosi

This might be a good deal on a single GEC 6AS7G.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184241783946


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> This might be a good deal on a single GEC 6AS7G.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/184241783946


I am not able to interpret the test data - is this tube low testing? Seems like a good deal though.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Zachik said:


> Question to the tube experts regarding burn in:
> Say I burn in a tube fully (200 hours or whatever), and not use it for 5 years. Would I need to burn in again (maybe a shorter burn-in), or would the changes that happen during burn-in remain for good?



A known phenomenon for brand new tubes is their emission strength improving over the first 50-100 hours of use.  At this point it peaks and begins a very slow gradual decline over the life of the tube.  There are multiple things going on that cause the sound to change in the beginning but I believe this is one of the more significant ones.  I do think tubes that have been sitting for a while need a sort of "mini break-in" to get back in their groove, and I suspect one reason why relates to getter activity.  The getter works to maintain the integrity of the vacuum inside the glass, and when a tube isn't used for a long time a very tiny amount of air does creep in over time.  So when you fire that tube back up for the first time in a while in those first few hours it is working on improving its own vaccum and this has an effect on the tube's operation.


----------



## Jazz du Look

chrisdrop said:


> That is not a Glenn amp, although I am sure he helped talk to the maker.
> The maker/ thread of interest is here. @L0rdGwyn does make a pretty amp.
> 
> I think I have the only Glenn amp in the London area  Notwithstanding Covid-etc a listen would perhaps be in order.


Thanks for replying and putting me straight. This thread is so massive it’s hard not to get confused. It would be great to hear it once the plague has gone!


----------



## leftside

61% is probably good enough for use for a while. And 61% tested on an Amplitrex is like 70% or higher on a bunch of other older testers.


----------



## Jazz du Look

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sorry, I will stop posting amp pictures here, I didn't mean to confuse!  If you PM Glenn you could discuss an amp build based on the 45.


Well if you hadn’t posted the picture I would never have known that Glenn may be amenable to a chassis change! So thanks from me. It’s not just the design actually, but yours look less deep and I’ve got a space issue if I want this sitting next to my turntable. I’ll contact Glenn and see what’s possible.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> This might be a good deal on a single GEC 6AS7G.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/184241783946


Tube is actually 6SA7G (not 6AS7G)...  Dyslexia, or is it a different type?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Tube is actually 6SA7G (not 6AS7G)...  Dyslexia, or is it a different type?



Definitely a typo!  No such thing as a 6SA7G.


----------



## raindownthunda

L0rdGwyn said:


> Definitely a typo!  No such thing as a 6SA7G.



How does the GEC 6AS7G compare to some of the other now-famous power tubes, such as the Bendix 6080WB or WE 421a?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

raindownthunda said:


> How does the GEC 6AS7G compare to some of the other now-famous power tubes, such as the Bendix 6080WB or WE 421a?



For me personally, I would rank them WE421A > GEC 6AS7G > Bendix 6080WB.  I tend to prioritize airiness, space, separation, and soundstage in my listening, and that is how I feel they stack up in that regard.  From this family, I always felt the 5998 / 421A were the best performers (on equal footing with the Tung-Sol 7802 if you can find them).  YMMV of course!


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> (on equal footing with the Tung-Sol 7802 if you can find them).


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 20, 2020)

Monsterzero said:


>



LOL.  Yeah, these are rare as hens' teeth, keep your eyes peeled!


----------



## chrisdrop

*Mullard EL32 Comparison Update...*

_All comments whilst accompanying the indomitable GEC 6J5s & Bendix 6080s_

After a few weeks w/ GT EL32s, last week I swapped to  shoulder-type EL32s. I have now had them on for almost 100h, trying to keep my minimum-week-long-roll. As mentioned earlier, they did change earlier this week, in a good way.

My take on the difference between the two: shoulder-types; _lower mids_ enhancement and a _slightly _"drier" tone, GTs; _upper mids_ enhancement. Where "enhancement" = some more space and tonal emphasis in that range. I can't say I _prefer_ either but bother are _enjoyable_. 

Finally, I think it took a _very long time_ for the GEC 6J5s to "unfold". Perhaps up to just shy of 200h I thought they were slightly bass-light. It must have been near to that point that they had a change where they just sort of opened up/filled out tonally. Presently, I would never accuse them of having anything lacking! They are _amazingly _clear overall.

Anyhow, I will keep the EL32 shoulder-types in place and rotate in the Fivre 6J5s for this next weeks roll. I am hoping I can cope without the GECs!


----------



## whirlwind (May 23, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> *Mullard EL32 Comparison Update...*
> 
> _All comments whilst accompanying the indomitable GEC 6J5s & Bendix 6080s_
> 
> ...




Most GEC tubes that I have heard makes me feel the same way...it is hard to really pick out many faults from top to bottom...I feel the same way about the Mullard ECC31/32/33/35.  At the end of the day, there is really not much to not like


----------



## chrisdrop

chrisdrop said:


>


A few hours in and I like them. They are spacious and good for the "mid-head" out there. They also have good sparkle in the upper range. During the week, I'll experiment with c3g slot compliments and report back.

The label says 28 9 59, so I am assuming that is day month year ...


----------



## mordy (May 23, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> A few hours in and I like them. They are spacious and good for the "mid-head" out there. They also have good sparkle in the upper range. During the week, I'll experiment with c3g slot compliments and report back.
> 
> The label says 28 9 59, so I am assuming that is day month year ...


The date code appears to me to be on some kind of tax stamp and may not be directly related to the manufacturing date, but I am not sure of this.....
Yup, Google Translate to the rescue: It is a Radio Tax Exemption stamp from the Finance Ministry.


----------



## Jaeger18

can you please check my pm thanks @2359glenn


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> I am not able to interpret the test data - is this tube low testing? Seems like a good deal though.


The new A1834 has gm of 7.5. So, yes the tube is weak. But this is still a good deal for some middle to low-end amps.


----------



## mordy

Hi attmci,
An intriguing statement - that a middle to low end amp (whatever that is) is not affected by a low measuring tube. Or maybe you mean that if you have an expensive high end amp, you should only treat it to expensive NOS tubes? 
To the best of my understanding, a low reading, as long as it is within specifications for that tube, will sound the same in the amp as a high reading tube, but the remaining life span of the tube will be shorter.
Personally, I would go for the bargains. Can't think of a single tube that I have used that wore out from use; always trying out new stuff....lol.
Or did I misunderstand you and get it all wrong?


----------



## chrisdrop

I like these Fivre 6J5s _by themselves, more than with any EL32 co-inputs_. Channeling Mordy a bit; the complimentary nature of the tubes really matters. These are wide/ spacious, airy and delicate sounding. They are a bit tilted to the brighter side, but they are certainly worth rolling in, having and using. I am pleased to have come across them.

I think @DecentLevi recently ordered a pair like these. I imagine you'll like 'em too (although I am not sure what amp they are going in!).


----------



## Karnicopia (May 25, 2020)

Here's my current setup I'm really liking the sound of these GE 6j5's I think this is my quietest setup and I wanted to give the Tung Sol's another listen after the Bendix. Honestly I like them both. I also have a pair of GEC 6j5's and had them going for a week or so but wanted to switch back and check these out but I could be happy with either setup.

I also got the fans set up and really like them it took a bit of work to get it to keep the temp stable with the bendix but I just angled the fan on the left to hit the power tube and angle to also hit the (I think they are called chokes) and that kept the whole left side of the amp cool and the right fan just is angled to hit the rest of the tubes and this keeps things stable without needing a lot of fan power. I have the sensor between the transformer and choke and it runs well. Usually if it's going a while it would stay at 88 which I liked because of back to the future. Overall I don't fiddle with that too much but it was kind of nice seeing a readout so I knew how to position things. It ended up being about $55 which I thought was reasonable and it's expandable so I'm putting a 3rd fan behind the DAC. In the pic this is only on the min fan setting and It's never really got over half power and does a great job cooling whatever I put in here. I think my next step with this is I'm just going to put together a box that can sit under the headphone stand and fit the thermostat since they are similarly sized.

In case anyone is interested this is what I ended up going with:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IJ2J2K0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NG9TSG4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

If you want a simpler setup you could just buy one of these and set it for a temp as well and this would put you at $30 total

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-Controller-AIRPLATE-MULTIFAN/dp/B078PY8L9F/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3BB1K3UJU60K2&dchild=1&keywords=ac+infinity+thermal+controller&qid=1590416408&s=electronics&sprefix=ac+infinity+therma,electronics,150&sr=1-1

The only other thing was I did put the amp and DAC on their own outlets and switched to optical and that really cleaned things up (I was kind of shocked how much I noticed it, my audiophile vocabulary is pretty limited but it was impressive) so I think that is something else I may explore a bit is the source and grounding (maybe cables but I want to keep it simple and cheap for now) but I'm really happy with the sound it's just more dialing in the small things and these days I've just kind of been enjoying it instead of tinkering so much..






I've been listening to a lot of this lately. Just found it through a suggestion on another album I like and really enjoy it.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> I like these Fivre 6J5s _by themselves, more than with any EL32 co-inputs_. Channeling Mordy a bit; the complimentary nature of the tubes really matters. These are wide/ spacious, airy and delicate sounding. They are a bit tilted to the brighter side, but they are certainly worth rolling in, having and using. I am pleased to have come across them.
> 
> I think @DecentLevi recently ordered a pair like these. I imagine you'll like 'em too (although I am not sure what amp they are going in!).


How do they compare to the little black "rusties'?


----------



## Zachik

Question about skirts... Tube skirts, to be exact! (or are those kilts?!    )
Anyhow, here goes. I have decided to roll new output tubes in my 6EL3N and discovered the red skirts are flaking and disintegrating - see photo below 
As far as I know those are cosmetic and do not serve any purpose, but wanted to know if anyone has any experience with what can be done to prevent (or slow down) the process... The tubes in this amp do NOT get very hot (unlike in my GOTL), so I doubt excess heat causes that to happen!


----------



## 2359glenn

Karnicopia said:


> Here's my current setup I'm really liking the sound of these GE 6j5's I think this is my quietest setup and I wanted to give the Tung Sol's another listen after the Bendix. Honestly I like them both. I also have a pair of GEC 6j5's and had them going for a week or so but wanted to switch back and check these out but I could be happy with either setup.
> 
> I also got the fans set up and really like them it took a bit of work to get it to keep the temp stable with the bendix but I just angled the fan on the left to hit the power tube and angle to also hit the (I think they are called chokes) and that kept the whole left side of the amp cool and the right fan just is angled to hit the rest of the tubes and this keeps things stable without needing a lot of fan power. I have the sensor between the transformer and choke and it runs well. Usually if it's going a while it would stay at 88 which I liked because of back to the future. Overall I don't fiddle with that too much but it was kind of nice seeing a readout so I knew how to position things. It ended up being about $55 which I thought was reasonable and it's expandable so I'm putting a 3rd fan behind the DAC. In the pic this is only on the min fan setting and It's never really got over half power and does a great job cooling whatever I put in here. I think my next step with this is I'm just going to put together a box that can sit under the headphone stand and fit the thermostat since they are similarly sized.
> 
> ...




I normally use the GEC L63 for the driver but when I put in metal GE 6J5s they sounded nearly as good.
If I had to I could live with the GEs and they only cost me $6 for the pair when the GEC L63s cost me $150


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Question about skirts... Tube skirts, to be exact! (or are those kilts?!    )
> Anyhow, here goes. I have decided to roll new output tubes in my 6EL3N and discovered the red skirts are flaking and disintegrating - see photo below
> As far as I know those are cosmetic and do not serve any purpose, but wanted to know if anyone has any experience with what can be done to prevent (or slow down) the process... The tubes in this amp do NOT get very hot (unlike in my GOTL), so I doubt excess heat causes that to happen!



The red skirt is conductive and hooked to the cathode essentially grounding it.  It is a shield but I have had some really bad flaking
and scrapped it all off and no change in operation.
So it will work fine and you can scrape it off if you want your tubes to all look the same .


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> The red skirt is conductive and hooked to the cathode essentially grounding it.  It is a shield but I have had some really bad flaking
> and scrapped it all off and no change in operation.
> So it will work fine and you can scrape it off if you want your tubes to all look the same .


Or you could use red shrink wrap to dress them up to look like the Vienna corps:



(The Philips EL3N were made by WIRAG in Vienna, Austria.)


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> The red skirt is conductive and hooked to the cathode essentially grounding it.  It is a shield but I have had some really bad flaking
> and scrapped it all off and no change in operation.
> So it will work fine and you can scrape it off if you want your tubes to all look the same .





mordy said:


> Or you could use red shrink wrap to dress them up


@mordy - I might actually buy Heat Shrink Tubing, preferably in red, and re-dress my flaking EL3N tubes.
(need to measure diameter with caliper and get the right size...).
Either that, or remove completely as Glenn suggests.


----------



## gibosi (May 25, 2020)

mordy said:


> Or you could use red shrink wrap to dress them up to look like the Vienna corps:
> 
> (The Philips EL3N were made by WIRAG in Vienna, Austria.)



While most Philips EL3N we find on eBay were manufactured by WIRAG, some were manufactured in Eindhoven, Holland; Blackburn, Great Britain; and Loewe Opta in Berlin.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> While most Philips EL3N we find on eBay were manufactured by WIRAG, some were manufactured in Eindhoven, Holland; Blackburn, Great Britain; and Loewe Opta in Berlin.


I am curious if all the others also had the red band on the glass.


----------



## Karnicopia (May 25, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> I normally use the GEC L63 for the driver but when I put in metal GE 6J5s they sounded nearly as good.
> If I had to I could live with the GEs and they only cost me $6 for the pair when the GEC L63s cost me $150


That's good to hear because I honestly thought I had a bit of tin ear but I love the GEC L63 (I thought they were 6j5's too) they just take a long time to sound their best (maybe because they are still breaking in but they sound a lot better 1-2 hrs into warming up) where the GE are just fast quiet and get you so close. For drivers I can't decide between Bendix 6080 and Tung Sol 5998 and even though it draws the soundstage in I really like the Cetron 6336A because it adds a immediacy and dynamics and power like I hear that a lot of people like with the Verite closed it just brings a completely different sound. I'm really enjoying that aspect of it where you can tune the sound and I think I have a good quiet setup and a good dynamic setup and then the Cetron's seem like a changeup if I really want something in my face. I think I got more than I bargained for with this amp.


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> Question about skirts... Tube skirts, to be exact! (or are those kilts?!    )
> Anyhow, here goes. I have decided to roll new output tubes in my 6EL3N and discovered the red skirts are flaking and disintegrating - see photo below
> As far as I know those are cosmetic and do not serve any purpose, but wanted to know if anyone has any experience with what can be done to prevent (or slow down) the process... The tubes in this amp do NOT get very hot (unlike in my GOTL), so I doubt excess heat causes that to happen!



Used as drivers in the OTL, the EL3N don't get all that hot either. So I just used a little clear tape. It ain't pretty, but it works.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I am curious if all the others also had the red band on the glass.



Yes, the tubes in my possession manufactured in Eindhoven, Holland; Blackburn, Great Britain; and Loewe Opta, Berlin all have the red band.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

If it were me, I would let it slowly flake away, let those babies age naturally


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> If it were me, I would let it slowly flake away, let those babies age naturally



I didn't want to lose the Philips factory production codes, so the tape worked fine for me. But otherwise, I am inclined to let them "age naturally" too. lol


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> If it were me, I would let it slowly flake away, let those babies age naturally


Unfortunately, it is not really a *slow* process of aging... 
I just found 2" diameter heat shrink tube on Amazon. A little pricey but would last many tubes (it is 4 feet long), and in red so aesthetics are kept as much as possible.


----------



## mordy

Never a dull moment - was looking for some tubes among my boxes and accidentally pulled out two USB cables from my PC. Wanted to play from iTunes library. Silence.
Checked all connections and discovered that I had pulled out the two USB plugs. Pushed them back in - silence.
I will spare you all my trials and tribulations and all the different trouble shooters and sound menus that I tried, but I finally discovered that all connections were good and that the GOTL and DAC worked fine. I could get sound from other sources but not iTunes.
Finally I found a quick and easy fix, and I am mentioning it here in case somebody will stumble upon this problem:
1. Open iTunes and go into Edit and then preferences

2. Click Playback on the preferences screen.

3. At the bottom you will use Play Audio Using:

4. Change from Windows Audio Session to Direct Sound.

5. It will ask you to close iTunes and re-open and then you should have sound again.

After one and half hours of trouble shooting all is well. Swapped out the pair of EL3N for a pair of EL11. These tubes are supposedly electrically the same but with different bases. Other tubes are a pair of K-R 6C5 metal and a pair of Bendix 6080WB.
Finally I can listen to a pair of tubes that are 157 years old. Well, together my pair of 1941 and 1942 Telefunken EL11 tubes add up to 157 years. Even 78 and 79 years old and going strong is astonishing.




I hope gibosi doesn't mind me saying this, but I think the blue rubber band covering up the rusted rim on the K-R 6C5 tube is more successful than the Scotch tape on the flaking EL3N tube......Maybe red electric PVC tape would work...But I myself am guilty of the tape trick to put a designation on my rusted out tube lol.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> I hope gibosi doesn't mind me saying this, but I think the blue rubber band covering up the rusted rim on the K-R 6C5 tube is more successful than the Scotch tape on the flaking EL3N tube......Maybe red electric PVC tape would work...But I myself am guilty of the tape trick to put a designation on my rusted out tube lol.


That is an interesting thought... Red electric PVC tape instead of heat shrink tube...   
Do you think this is a good fit for the job?  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P8XVQ0
Rated max temp: 221°F / 105°C (I suspect EL3N on my amp does not get anywhere near that!)

Thoughts?  That red electrical tape, or the heat shrink tube?


----------



## chrisdrop

t


mordy said:


> How do they compare to the little black "rusties'?



First, rusties v the GECs, I agree w/ Glenn and he said it well. The GEC L63s are still my go-to top driver that I keep returning to.


2359glenn said:


> I normally use the GEC L63 for the driver but when I put in metal GE 6J5s they sounded nearly as good.
> If I had to I could live with the GEs and they only cost me $6 for the pair when the GEC L63s cost me $150



Rusties vs Fivres; the Fivres are a bit different than many of my other 6J5s. They are more spacious and delicate than the common rustie. They are also less full in the lower register. They have a lovely sparkle and presence, but don't really kick, which gives more of that open feel. I think these Fivres will be like the C3G for me; roll them in sometimes because they are pleasant/different, but not a fixture like a few others. Don't get me wrong, they are in the amp right now and I am enjoying them. For the rusties; I like most of them, especially the GE 6C5s and the KenRads when looking for some extra thump.


----------



## Zachik

New roll for my 6EL3N... Finally testing different output tubes!
Started with all EL3N (hence 6EL3N), then rolled 6J5 drivers instead of EL3N, and now a pair of GEC KT66 in place of the 4xEL3N output tubes.

So... how does it sound?
The amp made quite a transformation!  While still very refined and super smooth, I feel the laid-back-ness is mostly replaced with... something else!  Still looking for the right adjectives to describe it.
Now it sounds faster, and something in the mids is turned into pure magic!  Listening to Hello (by Adele) caused my jaw to drop. I really like Adele's voice, but NEVER heard it like that. 
O M G.  Keeping it PG (ok... PG-13), her voice is so sensual and inviting. So smooth (without any loss of detail).
Headphone of the evening has been my HD600, BTW.

Interesting observation on power - after replacing 4xEL3N with 2xKT66, I had to turn the volume up couple notches. Not a problem just a surprise as I thought power wise they were very close. @2359glenn *Glenn - How does 4xEL3N compare to 2xKT66 in power?*


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> That is an interesting thought... Red electric PVC tape instead of heat shrink tube...
> Do you think this is a good fit for the job?  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P8XVQ0
> Rated max temp: 221°F / 105°C (I suspect EL3N on my amp does not get anywhere near that!)
> 
> Thoughts?  That red electrical tape, or the heat shrink tube?


Don't really have experience with either solution - perhaps the heat shrink tubing will adapt better to the shape of the tube. Or, whatever is cheaper....
What about hi temp self fusing red silicone tape?
https://www.amazon.com/Xtreme-Self-...+silicone+adhesive+tape&qid=1590474633&sr=8-6


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> That is an interesting thought... Red electric PVC tape instead of heat shrink tube...
> Do you think this is a good fit for the job?  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P8XVQ0
> Rated max temp: 221°F / 105°C (I suspect EL3N on my amp does not get anywhere near that!)
> 
> Thoughts?  That red electrical tape, or the heat shrink tube?



The heat shrink is a better idea.  The glue on the electrical tape will get all gooey with heat and it will come off and be a mess


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> New roll for my 6EL3N... Finally testing different output tubes!
> Started with all EL3N (hence 6EL3N), then rolled 6J5 drivers instead of EL3N, and now a pair of GEC KT66 in place of the 4xEL3N output tubes.
> 
> So... how does it sound?
> ...



You are confusing power with gain.
The KT66 probably will have more power but the EL3N has a gain of 23 and the Kt66 a gain of 6.15.
So just turn up the volume a little no problem.  Lower gain = lower noise.


----------



## hpamdr (May 26, 2020)

gibosi said:


> Yes, the tubes in my possession manufactured in Eindhoven, Holland; Blackburn, Great Britain; and Loewe Opta, Berlin all have the red band.


 The EL3(N) are part of the red series so most of the tube have the red band (all Phillips green label for sure).

You have 3 shapes,
Strait (Visseaux) with gold band,
tall (like EL3),
small regular EL3N.

Some Miniwatt version have also a silver treatment on the bottom and the top that goes above the red band.
Some Valvo, RT, Miniwatt  have no band
Some Visseaux can have gold band.

Medium part is usually gray but can be really dark.

You can find also EL3 bulb (taller) that are in fact EL3(N).  You can measure heat current, it should be less than 1A (0.9) at 6.3V  for EL3N and above 1A (1.2)  for EL3.

to get a complete overview you can get a look on radiomuseum.org it you have an account.

I have old tubes picked in TSF with resin between base and buld to prevent gaz leak or even paster.. (I also have to admit that i do not care of how it looks)

About putting red shrinkable tubing on the tube, you have to be carefull as some tubing also have glue (specially big diameters) whic can be not so nice on tha borders.
You have also to keep in mind that the tube will continuously heat end refresh which is not the primary usage of heat tubing and can tube can move up/down if you pinch it to remove the tube.  
An Alternative for me is to do nothing or just get high-temperature paint like the one used for exhaust system.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> If it were me, I would let it slowly flake away, let those babies age naturally



This is what I do...I wrote the date codes on the boxes and just let the flaking happen naturally.





Zachik said:


> New roll for my 6EL3N... Finally testing different output tubes!
> Started with all EL3N (hence 6EL3N), then rolled 6J5 drivers instead of EL3N, and now a pair of GEC KT66 in place of the 4xEL3N output tubes.
> 
> So... how does it sound?
> ...




Nice pic!  I bet using the  Sylvania 6J5 drivers can change the sound from being warm for sure.  The KT66 tubes have gobs of detail to my ears.
You probably need to turn the amp up as you are only using two KT66 where as you were using four EL3N. The lower gain can be your friend  

Enjoy!


----------



## Jaeger18

hey  im thinking to buy Glenn amp.. mind any one tell me the difference of 6EL3N and Glenn otl amp..


----------



## felix3650

Jaeger18 said:


> hey  im thinking to buy Glenn amp.. mind any one tell me the difference of 6EL3N and Glenn otl amp..


The OTL is just like the name implies: output transformer-less. It changes sound based on tubes used (and it accepts a lot of tube combos).
The GEL3N is a transformer coupled amp built to maximize around the EL3N tube. It uses EL3Ns, both as driver and output tubes. The 6EL3N is a variant our bud @Zachik here thought out and ordered for himself.
Best if you contact @2359glenn about what best can suit your needs


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Jaeger18 said:


> hey  im thinking to buy Glenn amp.. mind any one tell me the difference of 6EL3N and Glenn otl amp..



I would also suggest searching the thread, that question has been posed many times in the past, there is good info somewhere in these 2.4K pages


----------



## Jaeger18

thanks for the reply, ive already texted him a couple of days ago.. i think glenn is busy @felix3650


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> You are confusing power with gain.
> The KT66 probably will have more power but the EL3N has a gain of 23 and the Kt66 a gain of 6.15.
> So just turn up the volume a little no problem.  Lower gain = lower noise.


Thanks Glenn! 
You were absolutely right - I mixed gain with power...


----------



## Zachik

Jaeger18 said:


> hey  im thinking to buy Glenn amp.. mind any one tell me the difference of 6EL3N and Glenn otl amp..





felix3650 said:


> The OTL is just like the name implies: output transformer-less. It changes sound based on tubes used (and it accepts a lot of tube combos).
> The GEL3N is a transformer coupled amp built to maximize around the EL3N tube. It uses EL3Ns, both as driver and output tubes. The 6EL3N is a variant our bud @Zachik here thought out and ordered for himself.
> Best if you contact @2359glenn about what best can suit your needs


Very good answer!  
Depending on your future tube rolling aspirations and desires, another way to look at Glenn's different amps:

GEL3N (EL3N basic version) - is a great tube amp for people that do not wish to tube roll. Possible, with adapters, but not really meant for that!
6EL3N (custom made for me) - by adding sockets for 6J5 and KT66/EL34, above turned into a 2-amps-in-1. Limited tube rolling options, mostly for the 6J5 and KT66/EL34 sockets.
GOTL - this is the extreme other end of the tube rolling (vs. basic GEL3N). This 1 amp can sound in so many different ways by tube rolling, and tube rolling is expected and encouraged!!
So... how much money do you want to spend on tubes after you get your amp? For GEL3N, buy 1 set of backup EL3N tubes and you're done! The other 2 amps - sky is the limit (actually, your wallet is the limit ).


----------



## Jaeger18

Thanks zachik it really helps me alot... yea i have 2 options in mind, glenn amp or DNA stratus... People say the two amps really pairs well with hd800s, but after much thinking i guess im leaning towards Glenn amp for my endgame, and yes i think GOTL suits my need, because i do want to tube roll in the future... really appriciate your reply... @Zachik


----------



## Zachik

hpamdr said:


> You have 3 shapes,
> Strait (Visseaux) with gold band,
> tall (like EL3),
> small regular EL3N.
> ...


Great info!!  *Any idea where can I find any of these?* (other than random Italian eBay sellers that want $250 *each*  )
I had a source for buying the Philips EL3N (as NOS), for $25-30 each, but never saw any of the other variants at non-eBay sources...



hpamdr said:


> About putting red shrinkable tubing on the tube, you have to be careful as some tubing also have glue (specially big diameters) which can be not so nice on the borders.
> You have also to keep in mind that the tube will continuously heat end refresh which is not the primary usage of heat tubing and can tube can move up/down if you pinch it to remove the tube.
> An Alternative for me is to do nothing or just get high-temperature paint like the one used for exhaust system.


Good point.  The heat shrink tube that I saw at 2" indeed has glue, which might cause some mess. I might decide to experiment anyhow (or look for tube with no glue but no idea if that exist in 2" diameter).
As for high-temp paint, I will look it up.  Thanks for the suggestion, and please link one if you have 1st hand experience


----------



## Jaeger18

i am honestly amazed on the number of posts this forum has... glenn surely knows what he is doing..


----------



## Zachik

Jaeger18 said:


> glenn surely knows what he is doing..


Haha. That's like saying the Pope knows a thing or two about the bible


----------



## Jaeger18

with that being said... i really hope i can get one and tried it out by myself...


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> Great info!! *Any idea where can I find any of these?* (other than random Italian eBay sellers that want $250 *each*  )
> I had a source for buying the Philips EL3N (as NOS), for $25-30 each, but never saw any of the other variants at non-eBay sources...



Unfortunately, eBay is about the only game in town. Yes, some eBay vendors charge outrageous prices, but once in awhile they popup at reasonable prices. One has to be patient.


----------



## hpamdr

Zachik said:


> Great info!!  *Any idea where can I find any of these?* (other than random Italian eBay sellers that want $250 *each*  )
> I had a source for buying the Philips EL3N (as NOS), for $25-30 each, but never saw any of the other variants at non-eBay sources...


The only one i've seen lately are the standard phillips green label sold by Langrex, Colomor Electronics Ltd in UK or www.btb-elektronik.de  in germany. 
I got some used tube from antic store i visited during week-end that have old radio and spare parts (including tube) in lot size. (No journey anymore due to covid)  
On ebay Some tube can be very expensive and to me do not sound better than a matched pair of EL3N.  

In the same league and for rolling experience, you can get EL11 or 6M6G tube but you will need adapter as the base is not the same and are not so easy to find..



Zachik said:


> Good point.  The heat shrink tube that I saw at 2" indeed has glue, which might cause some mess. I might decide to experiment anyhow (or look for tube with no glue but no idea if that exist in 2" diameter).
> As for high-temp paint, I will look it up.  Thanks for the suggestion, and please link one if you have 1st hand experience


 this is the kind of paint i've used in metallic part with high temperature... https://www.vhtpaint.com/high-heat/vht-flameproof-coating


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, eBay is about the only game in town. Yes, some eBay vendors charge outrageous prices, but once in awhile they popup at reasonable prices. *One has to be patient*.


You clearly do not know me!


----------



## Zachik

hpamdr said:


> this is the kind of paint i've used in metallic part with high temperature... https://www.vhtpaint.com/high-heat/vht-flameproof-coating


Hmmm....... Needs to be cured following these directions:

Paint must be completely dry before curing
Heat to 250°F (121°C) for 30 minutes
Cool for 30 minutes
Heat to 400°F (204°C) for 30 minutes
Cool for 30 minutes
Heat to 650°F (343°C ) for 30 minutes
I will pass on cooking my tubes @ 650°F for 30 minutes  

Thanks anyhow! Your help is appreciated.


----------



## hpamdr (May 26, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Hmmm....... Needs to be cured following these directions:
> 
> Paint must be completely dry before curing
> Heat to 250°F (121°C) for 30 minutes
> ...


This is for maximal operation... no need to cook your tubes... What you can do for tube, this is what i usually do with my metallic parts : i add 5 minutes to have heat temp reached..

paint and wait for dry
use the tube for 15  minutes (round 1)
let the tube cool down (you ca switch to newly paint tube round 1)
plug the tube back and use it for a new round of 25 minutes (round 2)
let the tube cool down (20-30minutes)
plug the tube back and use it for a new round of 35 minutes or more (round 3)
let the tube cool down at least one hour. Your tube is ready...


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Jaeger18 said:


> Thanks zachik it really helps me alot... yea i have 2 options in mind, glenn amp or DNA stratus... People say the two amps really pairs well with hd800s, but after much thinking i guess im leaning towards Glenn amp for my endgame, and yes i think GOTL suits my need, because i do want to tube roll in the future... really appriciate your reply... @Zachik


Here you go,
The post with almost all the variants of Glenn's amps:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2249#post-15273830


----------



## Jaeger18

nice.... thanks maan... ill have a look... @ashwinvyas1981


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Never a dull moment - was looking for some tubes among my boxes and accidentally pulled out two USB cables from my PC. Wanted to play from iTunes library. Silence.
> Checked all connections and discovered that I had pulled out the two USB plugs. Pushed them back in - silence.
> I will spare you all my trials and tribulations and all the different trouble shooters and sound menus that I tried, but I finally discovered that all connections were good and that the GOTL and DAC worked fine. I could get sound from other sources but not iTunes.
> Finally I found a quick and easy fix, and I am mentioning it here in case somebody will stumble upon this problem:
> ...



This is *a* solution but I recommend you keep digging in your settings and try to get sound without resorting to using Direct Sound.  Windows Audio Session refers to WASAPI.  This is a direct-to-device method much like ASIO is that bypasses the Windows audio kernel and mixer and avoids re-samping and other shenanigans.  Direct Sound has the benefit of high compatibility but it *does* go through the Windows mixer and is re-sampling everything it touches.  You'll get a sound quality penalty from this, usually in the form of a softer and less transparent presentation.

Using WASAPI whenever possible is highly desirable.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Great info!!  *Any idea where can I find any of these?* (other than random Italian eBay sellers that want $250 *each*  )
> I had a source for buying the Philips EL3N (as NOS), for $25-30 each, but never saw any of the other variants at non-eBay sources...
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Zachik,
As mentioned before, another source for finding tubes is to go to Google Images and type in the tube designation. Among the many posts you can find sellers that are not on eBay. A casual search now came up with two sellers:
These tubes are being sold by a seller in Vietnam - you have to use Google Translate for the translation and to figure out the prices etc:




https://vnav.vn/threads/tube-el3n-nos.95575/
Here is another seller:



This is a French seller and the tubes are 50 Euro.
https://mes-occasions.com/p/1-lot-de-5-tubes-el3n-d-occasion-testes-321419
At one time Billington in England had EL3N tubes made by Telefunken but I don't know the stock situation now - I think that they were straight glass.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> This is *a* solution but I recommend you keep digging in your settings and try to get sound without resorting to using Direct Sound.  Windows Audio Session refers to WASAPI.  This is a direct-to-device method much like ASIO is that bypasses the Windows audio kernel and mixer and avoids re-samping and other shenanigans.  Direct Sound has the benefit of high compatibility but it *does* go through the Windows mixer and is re-sampling everything it touches.  You'll get a sound quality penalty from this, usually in the form of a softer and less transparent presentation.
> 
> Using WASAPI whenever possible is highly desirable.


Thanks - I think I found the interface and activated it.


----------



## chrisdrop

#yet-another-thing-I-don't-understand
I left *just* 2x EL32 in the amp and listened. _Not recommended as solo-drivers in the least! Just not good._
Now, add 2x 6J5 and it all sounds great. It doesn't seem to be "adding the characteristics together" in any discernible way. 
_Why does this work and sound good?! _


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Great info!!  *Any idea where can I find any of these?* (other than random Italian eBay sellers that want $250 *each*  )
> I had a source for buying the Philips EL3N (as NOS), for $25-30 each, but never saw any of the other variants at non-eBay sources...
> 
> 
> ...



You can use this expensive as hell 1.5" but can be stretched with pliers handles I do that all the time.
https://www.alliedelec.com/product/ico-rally/hix-1-1-2-red/70000630/


----------



## 2359glenn

2359glenn said:


> You can use this expensive as hell 1.5" but can be stretched with pliers handles I do that all the time.
> https://www.alliedelec.com/product/ico-rally/hix-1-1-2-red/70000630/



https://tubeworldexpress.com/products/el3n-mazda-france-red-series-nos-1950-era-3-in-stock


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> You can use this expensive as hell 1.5" but can be stretched with pliers handles I do that all the time.
> https://www.alliedelec.com/product/ico-rally/hix-1-1-2-red/70000630/


Holy cow - that really is pricey for a stupid heat shrink tubing!! Glenn - I could not see adhesive mentioned at all. So this one does not have adhesive? The (much cheaper) 2" tubing I saw on amazon has adhesive, so would probably make a mess as suggested in the previous page...



2359glenn said:


> https://tubeworldexpress.com/products/el3n-mazda-france-red-series-nos-1950-era-3-in-stock


I wonder if those are actually different from the Philips EL3N. They look identical, and Tube World Express only have 3 (which means only 1 pair for drivers, assuming they're quiet enough).  I guess it brings a question for you Glenn - which EL3N tubes would make a bigger change to sound in my amp? Driver or Output tubes?


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Holy cow - that really is pricey for a stupid heat shrink tubing!! Glenn - I could not see adhesive mentioned at all. So this one does not have adhesive? The (much cheaper) 2" tubing I saw on amazon has adhesive, so would probably make a mess as suggested in the previous page...
> 
> 
> I wonder if those are actually different from the Philips EL3N. They look identical, and Tube World Express only have 3 (which means only 1 pair for drivers, assuming they're quiet enough).  I guess it brings a question for you Glenn - which EL3N tubes would make a bigger change to sound in my amp? Driver or Output tubes?


Just want to add not to bother with the Tungsram EL3N tubes because they have limited frequency response compared to the Philips.


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> I wonder if those are actually different from the Philips EL3N. They look identical, and Tube World Express only have 3 (which means only 1 pair for drivers, assuming they're quiet enough). I guess it brings a question for you Glenn - which EL3N tubes would make a bigger change to sound in my amp? Driver or Output tubes?



These were made in France by Mazda. So yes, they are different than Philips-made EL3N.

And I don't have a pair so can't say how they sound.


----------



## 2359glenn

Zachik said:


> Holy cow - that really is pricey for a stupid heat shrink tubing!! Glenn - I could not see adhesive mentioned at all. So this one does not have adhesive? The (much cheaper) 2" tubing I saw on amazon has adhesive, so would probably make a mess as suggested in the previous page...
> 
> 
> I wonder if those are actually different from the Philips EL3N. They look identical, and Tube World Express only have 3 (which means only 1 pair for drivers, assuming they're quiet enough).  I guess it brings a question for you Glenn - which EL3N tubes would make a bigger change to sound in my amp? Driver or Output tubes?



Not really sure what one would make a bigger difference Driver or output.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Just want to add not to bother with the Tungsram EL3N tubes because they have limited frequency response compared to the Philips.


Do they have good bass?  All I need is bass!


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> These were made in France by Mazda. So yes, they are different than Philips-made EL3N.
> And I don't have a pair so can't say how they sound.


Thanks @gibosi 



2359glenn said:


> Not really sure what one would make a bigger difference Driver or output.


Thanks Glenn. 
@whirlwind Joe - did you use any non-Philips EL3N tubes as either drivers or outputs?  Which ones made a bigger difference vs. Philips EL3N?
The Mazda pair would cost $150-ish and will only work as drivers (if quiet enough) since they only have 3 singles...


----------



## DecentLevi (May 26, 2020)

AFAIK, Tungsram is identical quality as the best out there (which ones slipped memory.... Telefunken perhaps), as they may have just been a rebrand manufacturer with everything genuine and authentic. I have some of their ECC88 and EL12 tubes and they were some of the best I've ever had bar-none. And by all means any serious tube roller with the EL3N's has got to try EL12 (powers) and EL11 (drivers) as they are 100% compatible and electrically identical enough, the only difference being the different base connection type and the fact that EL11/12 are favorable by many.


----------



## Zachik

DecentLevi said:


> AFAIK, Tungsram is identical quality as the best out there (which ones slipped memory.... Telefunken perhaps), as they may have just been a rebrand manufacturer with everything genuine and authentic. I have some of their ECC88 and EL12 tubes and they were some of the best I've ever had bar-none. And by all means any serious tube roller with the EL3N's has got to try EL12 (powers) and EL11 (drivers) as they are 100% compatible and electrically identical enough, the only difference being the different base connection type and the fact that EL11/12 are favorable by many.


I do have 2 pairs of EL11 and adapters for my GOTL.
For my 6EL3N - my intent was to only use "native" tubes (i.e. without adapters)... I am holding firm to that!     (for now...)


----------



## leftside (May 27, 2020)

hpamdr said:


> www.btb-elektronik.de  in germany.


Hmmm these don't look like EL37 to me... but the shape is strangely familiar, and I believe Haltron were a rebrander.
https://btb-elektronik.de/en/categories/products/product/?id=3054&product_name=EL37 (=6P27s/6n27C) Pentode



gibosi said:


> These were made in France by Mazda. So yes, they are different than Philips-made EL3N.
> 
> And I don't have a pair so can't say how they sound.


I love Mazda tubes. Among their tubes I have are 6N7G, 12AT7 and 76. Thinking of pulling the trigger on an expensive pair of 3-mica chrome plate 12AX7.


----------



## hpamdr

leftside said:


> Hmmm these don't look like EL37 to me... but the shape is strangely familiar, and I believe Haltron were a rebrander.
> https://btb-elektronik.de/en/categories/products/product/?id=3054&product_name=EL37 (=6P27s/6n27C) Pentode


https://btb-elektronik.de/en/catego...3054&product_name=EL37 (=6P27s/6n27C) Pentode
Yes Haltron is a rebrander, if you are lucky you can get British made tube like GEC or Mullard (oldest tubes), but latest tube are mainly Russian alternatives.


----------



## whirlwind (May 27, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Thanks @gibosi
> 
> 
> Thanks Glenn.
> ...




I have used  EL3N3 manufactured in 1944 at Eindhoven, Holland as I remember they sounded good, but at times could be noisy as driver tubes...may just need more hours on them, they would be quiet for awhile, then they would get noisy.
I ended up just taking them out and put in my quiet  WIRAG EL3N and have not looked back. I did try EL8 tubes as drivers but they were noisy and did not sound as good as EL3N.

Quiet drivers are the most important thing, once I found a nice quiet pair, I really did not want to mess with them too much.
I do all of my rolling with output tubes....keep in mind I can not roll the 6J5 tubes, only EL3N type as drivers

I have often wondered how these may sound, but have never come across any that I felt were reasonably priced
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL3N-TUBE-QUAD-NOS-NIB-AMPLIFIER-MATCHED-QUARTET-FRANCE-VISSEAUX-P8A-STEREO-ARMY/253681216706?_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item3b10942cc2:gogAAOSw0F9bkPtu&enc=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&checksum=253681216706e505c1d88ae144bfb0eb0cb9ad2a1c6a


----------



## hpamdr

whirlwind said:


> Quiet drivers are the most important thing, once I found a nice quiet pair, I really did not want to mess with them too much.
> I do all of my rolling with output tubes....keep in mind I can not roll the 6J5 tubes, only EL3N type as drivers


 Driver are more sensible and need to be more carefully selected. than output tubes. Some tubes have little hum in driver socket but are dead silent in output at least on my current amp .


whirlwind said:


> I have often wondered how these may sound, but have never come across any that I felt were reasonably priced
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL3N-TUBE-QUAD-NOS-NIB-AMPLIFIER-MATCHED-QUARTET-FRANCE-VISSEAUX-P8A-STEREO-ARMY/253681216706?_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item3b10942cc2:gogAAOSw0F9bkPtu&enc=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&checksum=253681216706e505c1d88ae144bfb0eb0cb9ad2a1c6a


this vendor is known to have over priced tubes...


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Quiet drivers are the most important thing, once I found a nice quiet pair, I really did not want to mess with them too much.
> I do all of my rolling with output tubes....keep in mind I can not roll the 6J5 tubes, only EL3N type as drivers


Thanks Joe.
I know you do not have 6J5 driver option.  I did not even think of asking for that - was a suggestion by Glenn that I fully embraced and truly appreciate!!!  
Glenn is so good and experienced, and care about the end result and about us enjoying his creations  
As for quiet drivers, first - I think it is easier to find a quiet 6J5 pair than EL3N. Second, Glenn has told me he had to try several tubes until he found a quiet pair for me (and marked them so I will use the right pair). 
Did I already mention Glenn is awesome?  



whirlwind said:


> I have often wondered how these may sound, but have never come across any that I felt were reasonably priced


Yeah - saw those yesterday or the day before and was perplexed whether those are just so rare or this seller is crazy?  
Either way - I am NOT spending that amount on 4 x EL3N tubes!


----------



## Jaeger18

need help... whats the difference between jupiter caps and russian caps? and Gold Point 47 steps attenuator? .. thanks


----------



## mordy

hpamdr said:


> https://btb-elektronik.de/en/categories/products/product/?id=3054&product_name=EL37 (=6P27s/6n27C) Pentode
> Yes Haltron is a rebrander, if you are lucky you can get British made tube like GEC or Mullard (oldest tubes), but latest tube are mainly Russian alternatives.


Re the EL37 from Haltron, the only tubes of this type that I have seen with a curved base were made by GEC. Also, the price quoted includes VAT of 19% and it does not apply to foreign purchases from Germany. 







_Is it possible that this tube is a GEC KT66?_ If so, it is a great bargain - going price is almost 10 times higher.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/KT66-GEC-N...774024?hash=item2f2554bfc8:g:zi4AAOSwiJhb2DD2
PS: BTB will try to ship DHL at three times the price of the German post office (Bundespost) - insist on Bundespost which is safe and efficient.


----------



## leftside

Mordy figured it out  Typical price for genuine NOS KT66 with smoked glass/brown base can be often be around $200 - $250. I'd argue our friend in India is pricing his a little high, but he does have good tubes for sure. Unfortunately the German seller appears to only have one left now.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Mordy figured it out  Typical price for genuine NOS KT66 with smoked glass/brown base can be often be around $200 - $250. I'd argue our friend in India is pricing his a little high, but he does have good tubes for sure. Unfortunately the German seller appears to only have one left now.


According to their website there are two available when I checked now. You can't just order from them - you have to request what you want and then wait for an invoice.


----------



## wazzupi

The mission... to find the very best tubes, love it ! Missed you guys !! keep striving !


----------



## Velozity

Since we're on the topic of KT66, I'm looking for an alternative to using Gold Lion KT88 in my Rogue Audio Tempest II integrated amp.  I'm in the middle of a love affair with my Bendix 6080 on my GOTL, so I'm looking for ways to get that Bendix red bank magic into the Rogue.  I've stumbled upon the 6384 which can be adapted to replace 6L6/EL34. I've got inquiries out to Deyan on the adapter and there are some from Mrs. Xuling on ebay so I know they are readily available.  Have any of you tried this and can comment on performance?


----------



## mordy

Velozity said:


> Since we're on the topic of KT66, I'm looking for an alternative to using Gold Lion KT88 in my Rogue Audio Tempest II integrated amp.  I'm in the middle of a love affair with my Bendix 6080 on my GOTL, so I'm looking for ways to get that Bendix red bank magic into the Rogue.  I've stumbled upon the 6384 which can be adapted to replace 6L6/EL34. I've got inquiries out to Deyan on the adapter and there are some from Mrs. Xuling on ebay so I know they are readily available.  Have any of you tried this and can comment on performance?


Interesting tube - built like a tank; can withstand 300C and 500G; 10,000 hour life.
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/131/6/6384.pdf
In this picture it is the left tube (made by Bendix):


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Thanks Joe.
> I know you do not have 6J5 driver option.  I did not even think of asking for that - was a suggestion by Glenn that I fully embraced and truly appreciate!!!
> Glenn is so good and experienced, and care about the end result and about us enjoying his creations
> As for quiet drivers, first - I think it is easier to find a quiet 6J5 pair than EL3N. Second, Glenn has told me he had to try several tubes until he found a quiet pair for me (and marked them so I will use the right pair).
> ...




I am with you, no way I will spend that on these tubes to try them, especially when great sounding EL3N tubes can be bought much cheaper.
I will keep my eyes open as maybe someday some will appear at a fair price.


----------



## hpamdr

Velozity said:


> Since we're on the topic of KT66, I'm looking for an alternative to using Gold Lion KT88 in my Rogue Audio Tempest II integrated amp.  I'm in the middle of a love affair with my Bendix 6080 on my GOTL, so I'm looking for ways to get that Bendix red bank magic into the Rogue.  I've stumbled upon the 6384 which can be adapted to replace 6L6/EL34. I've got inquiries out to Deyan on the adapter and there are some from Mrs. Xuling on ebay so I know they are readily available.  Have any of you tried this and can comment on performance?


 Rogue Audio Tempest II is meant to run with pentode tubes for output even if triode mode can be selected. 
On OTL all tubes are usualy triode, to use pentode you need to strap them into triode using a dedicated adapter.. see http://www.audiodesignguide.com/New2A3/ETF06TS.pdf  Bendix 6080 is a double Triode and will not fit into your amp !


----------



## chrisdrop

Velozity said:


> I'm in the middle of a love affair with my Bendix 6080 on my GOTL


Me too. It has lasted for many months. I can't remove them; fixtures.


----------



## Velozity

hpamdr said:


> Rogue Audio Tempest II is meant to run with pentode tubes for output even if triode mode can be selected.
> On OTL all tubes are usualy triode, to use pentode you need to strap them into triode using a dedicated adapter.. see http://www.audiodesignguide.com/New2A3/ETF06TS.pdf  Bendix 6080 is a double Triode and will not fit into your amp !



Thanks, yes I'm aware of that.  I was saying I want to try a Bendix tube in the Tempest because I'm really happy with the Bendix 6080 in my OTL.  So I'm going to adapt a Bendix 6384 (beam pentode) to run as an output tube in the Rogue.




chrisdrop said:


> Me too. It has lasted for many months. I can't remove them; fixtures.




Same here.  I haven't removed mine through the whole quarantine.  They seemed to have gotten even better over time.  Mine were NOS and certainly required a good amount of break-in.  I'm well over 300 hours of use now and these things are killing it.  I don't even miss my GEC 6AS7G anymore.  No matter what driver I roll, I just love the sound and synergy with my VC.


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> Me too. It has lasted for many months. *I can't remove them*; fixtures.


No worries Chris - when covid-19 is a far memory, I will come over with my toolbox and remove the Bendix 6080 for you


----------



## mordy

I am also using the Bendix 6080WB - punch and clarity.
Pulled out the pair of EL3N in the C3g slots and put in a pair of Telefunken EL11. There is a difference in sound but it took me a while to quantify it in my mind.
The EL3N is softer and more woolly/fuzzy and reaches deeper into the bass; the TFK EL11 is clearer and more incisive with great mid range and highs. Added a 1953 National Union 6SL7WGT (umbrella spokes) to the mix for added punch.
Each one of these tube combinations has a little different flavor - it is all good.....


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Pulled out the pair of EL3N in the C3g slots and put in a pair of Telefunken EL11. There is a difference in sound but it took me a while to quantify it in my mind.
> The EL3N is softer and more woolly/fuzzy and reaches deeper into the bass; the TFK EL11 is clearer and more incisive with great mid range and highs.


@mordy when I tried EL3N and EL11 on my GOTL (several months ago), I thought the EL11 were much better (for my taste). 
I think the EL11 sounded smoother than "the average" 6SN7 as driver without loss of detail.


----------



## Monsterzero

I recall asking about the Bendix 6080s in this thread not so long ago and was told "nobody" was using them in the GOTL.
Times have changed.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Times have changed.


Work from home, social distancing, people wearing masks not just in China / Taiwan, .....
Yeah, I agree times have changed


----------



## JazzVinyl (May 28, 2020)

Zachik said:


> @mordy when I tried EL3N and EL11 on my GOTL (several months ago), I thought the EL11 were much better (for my taste).
> I think the EL11 sounded smoother than "the average" 6SN7 as driver without loss of detail.



I was never able to appreciate the EL3N as drivers in the GOTL.  I don't have the EL11's but I agree with Mordy's description of the EL3N's being dark and woolly/fuzzy. Use the EL32's in the C3g slots and find them to be much more satisfying.  They make magic with the mid's and the sound stage, I find them very addictive, a very positive addition to a the sn7 driver(s).

Tonight using Ken Rad 6J5's / EL32's and 5998's on a new Jazz Trio CD I just got today and it is very satisfying.  I let the 6J5's warm for a couple of hours, before listening....


Cheers!


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> #yet-another-thing-I-don't-understand
> I left *just* 2x EL32 in the amp and listened. _Not recommended as solo-drivers in the least! Just not good._
> Now, add 2x 6J5 and it all sounds great. It doesn't seem to be "adding the characteristics together" in any discernible way.
> _Why does this work and sound good?! _



I agree 100% with this Chris...EL32's solo are not exciting, but following 6J5's....and you get a luxurious, expensive sounding. sound 

I think the "luxury" is in the mids, and the precision of the sound stage.

Not sure I understand why, either, but sure glad it works like it does!

.


----------



## Zachik

JazzVinyl said:


> I was never able to appreciate the EL3N as drivers in the GOTL. I don't have the EL11's but I agree with Mordy's description of the EL3N's being dark and woolly/fuzzy.


EL3N sounds really good in my dedicated 6EL3N amp!
EL11 sounds really good in my GOTL (C3g sockets, with adapter from @Deyan).
I wonder if I should try *EL11 pair as drivers in my 6EL3N amp* (with adapter from @Deyan)...  
@2359glenn Glenn - what do you think?  worth a try?


----------



## Deyan

Zachik said:


> EL3N sounds really good in my dedicated 6EL3N amp!
> EL11 sounds really good in my GOTL (C3g sockets, with adapter from @Deyan).
> I wonder if I should try *EL11 pair as drivers in my 6EL3N amp* (with adapter from @Deyan)...
> @2359glenn Glenn - what do you think?  worth a try?



And I just bought a lathe.


----------



## Zachik

Deyan said:


> And I just bought a lathe.


Does that mean you can create a professional looking EL11 to EL3N adapters? 
(I have just sent you an e-mail...)


----------



## Deyan

Zachik said:


> Does that mean you can create a professional looking EL11 to EL3N adapters?
> (I have just sent you an e-mail...)



Well.... I'm pretty sure I can make it as good as the GOTL adapters. And with the machine in house the customization options are up 500%


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey guys apologies for an off topic post, but for some reason I thought someone here may know. I'm looking for a cassette deck with decent quality CD transport for a few hundred bucks, used OK. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/post-15643902


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I recall asking about the Bendix 6080s in this thread not so long ago and was told "nobody" was using them in the GOTL.
> Times have changed.



Not sure who would say no one was using them as they are some of the best power tubes available for OTL designs


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Monsterzero said:


> I recall asking about the Bendix 6080s in this thread not so long ago and was told "nobody" was using them in the GOTL.
> Times have changed.



I do in fact have the Bendix 6080 in the GOTL atm too hehe.

@UntilThen pointed me to Bendix 6080 early on while i was waiting for the GOTL, early 2019 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/post-14856621

I ordered the Bendix 6080 in Oct last year...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/post-15231386

Voila, posts from year end 2019...



UsoppNoKami said:


> GOTL tube roll for the week:
> 
> 
> 
> ...






UsoppNoKami said:


> Pretty lightbulbs..



Lovely tubes.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> Not sure who would say no one was using them as they are some of the best power tubes available for OTL designs


I actually found the post I was referencing back in March of 2019. I wont name names though so as to not bring shame.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Zachik said:


> Does that mean you can create a professional looking EL11 to EL3N adapters?
> (I have just sent you an e-mail...)


Lathes are super good at making things that are round.


----------



## gibosi

Some sad news....

For those of you who knew or dealt with Stan of ESRC in Florida, he recently passed away.

There is some speculation that his son may keep the company going....


----------



## UntilThen

UsoppNoKami said:


> I do in fact have the Bendix 6080 in the GOTL atm too hehe.
> 
> @UntilThen pointed me to Bendix 6080 early on while i was waiting for the GOTL, early 2019
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/post-14856621
> ...



A year's gone by too quickly. I still have my pair of Bendix 6080wb slotted.

That picture of yours with Bendix 6080wb, GEC 6as7g, WE 422A, etc together .... gosh you've got the best tubes together there. Good times and I hope you're still enjoying the occasional roll. 

Aw the HE1000se. I've heard the Arya now so I've an idea how the HEKse sound. Exquisite.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Some sad news....
> 
> For those of you who knew or dealt with Stan of ESRC in Florida, he recently passed away.
> 
> There is some speculation that his son may keep the company going....




Wow, this is sad news. Hopefully his son will carry on the tradition.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Some sad news....
> 
> For those of you who knew or dealt with Stan of ESRC in Florida, he recently passed away.
> 
> There is some speculation that his son may keep the company going....



Oh wow, that is sad.  Hope his son does keep it going.  Just thought about Stan minutes ago, when I looked at a $4 each Western (RCA) 12J5 pair...

Condolences to his family.


----------



## whirlwind

UsoppNoKami said:


> I do in fact have the Bendix 6080 in the GOTL atm too hehe.
> 
> @UntilTh





UsoppNoKami said:


> GOTL tube roll for the week:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ha...


UntilThen said:


> A year's gone by too quickly. I still have my pair of Bendix 6080wb slotted.
> 
> That picture of yours with Bendix 6080wb, GEC 6as7g, WE 422A, etc together .... gosh you've got the best tubes together there. Good times and I hope you're still enjoying the occasional roll.
> 
> Aw the HE1000se. I've heard the Arya now so I've an idea how the HEKse sound. Exquisite.




Ha....you can back the Brinks truck up to the amp for that tube roll!


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Ha....you can back the Brinks truck up to the amp for that tube roll!



LOL, my thought too!  But I bet is sounds great!!   Nice to see them!!


----------



## 2359glenn (May 29, 2020)

whirlwind said:


> Wow, this is sad news. Hopefully his son will carry on the tradition.



That is sad. About a year ago I went to Florida and the first thing I did was go and see Stan.  He kept the place open on the weekend because he knew I was
coming. A great guy I never seen so many tubes in my life he had 2,000,000 tubes.
He was tickled pink to meet and see me.
This spoiled my day.  Even Lucy is upset about this she met him too.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Some sad news....
> 
> For those of you who knew or dealt with Stan of ESRC in Florida, he recently passed away.
> 
> There is some speculation that his son may keep the company going....


Oh, No. 

RIP


----------



## Velozity

I'm having a goosebumps moment and just wanted to share.  I switched out my PS audio XStream Statement RCA interconnect to a Morrow Audio MA3.  I paid for the 240-hour burn-in on the Morrow cables so that I could hear them at their best right out of the box.  Gents, if you are in the market for a new cable (or maybe you should be and don't know it like me) I highly recommend you consider one of these.  My PS Audio cable just sounds slow and heavy by comparison.  The MA3 feels faster, airier, and more defined.  I guess that means I'm perceiving an improvement in PRaT?  Anyway up until today I was very happy with my existing cable!  I actually bought the Morrow RCA and speaker cables for my turntable rig.  I decided to try it between my DAC and GOTL first to see if I could hear a difference.  The improvement is not subtle.  In addition the ground-level sub-bass on my Verite Closed feels subterranean now.  Really makes me wonder what an MA6 or MA7 could do for the experience.  The Elite and Anniversary must be insane.  Anyway, +1 for Morrow Audio if you're in the market.


----------



## chrisdrop

New tube day/ staying home to listen supplies... 

It will take some time to get through trying these out, but I thought I'd share my tube pics nonetheless with you fine people.

I will stop buying 6J5-related tubes for a while. I think @L0rdGwyn mentioned he has ~"a 6j5 drawer" and I am getting to a similar place  #first-world-headfi-problems

*6N7*




*12AU7*



ECC31 (_only 1 needed for the GOTL_)


----------



## whirlwind

chrisdrop said:


> New tube day/ staying home to listen supplies...
> 
> It will take some time to get through trying these out, but I thought I'd share my tube pics nonetheless with you fine people.
> 
> ...



Nice tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> New tube day/ staying home to listen supplies...
> 
> It will take some time to get through trying these out, but I thought I'd share my tube pics nonetheless with you fine people.
> 
> ...



Wow!  Yes, all very nice, Chris!!!


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Nice tubes.


Beat me to it. Those brown base Mullard 6J5G are quite hard to find.


----------



## Zachik

@mordy (or anyone else with experience cleaning tube pins) - are these flexible sandpaper a good option:
https://www.amazon.com/3M-28150PGP-UF5-PRECISION-FLEXIBLE-SANDING/dp/B00OEKL17I/

Is 150 Grit too rough? I was drawn to this one due to being very flexible, so I imagine would be easy to properly be able to deal with smaller / closer pins in 12AU7 type tube... I imagine would be more challenging than 6SN7 type pins.


----------



## mordy

Hi Zachik,
I don't use sand paper so I can't tell you about my experiences. My approach is always to first try no cost or low cost alternatives. I am happy with my little pen knife - the blade is small enough to work for the 9pin tubes. I use a large magnifying glass which makes it easy to see where the oxidation and corrosion is.
I believe that gibosi is using 200 grit sand paper if I remember correctly.


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> @mordy (or anyone else with experience cleaning tube pins) - are these flexible sandpaper a good option:
> https://www.amazon.com/3M-28150PGP-UF5-PRECISION-FLEXIBLE-SANDING/dp/B00OEKL17I/
> 
> Is 150 Grit too rough? I was drawn to this one due to being very flexible, so I imagine would be easy to properly be able to deal with smaller / closer pins in 12AU7 type tube... I imagine would be more challenging than 6SN7 type pins.





mordy said:


> Hi Zachik,
> I don't use sand paper so I can't tell you about my experiences. My approach is always to first try no cost or low cost alternatives. I am happy with my little pen knife - the blade is small enough to work for the 9pin tubes. I use a large magnifying glass which makes it easy to see where the oxidation and corrosion is.
> I believe that gibosi is using 200 grit sand paper if I remember correctly.



My bad. I guess I should have asked @gibosi then...


----------



## chrisdrop (May 31, 2020)

Glenn is tricky - it is hard to put tubes in the amp that don't sound pretty darn good. Here is a dual triode, making a rare appearance in my amp. This RCA 6N7G sounds pretty good out of the box and I do like the look of it. Below is also the 1st adapter I have gotten via xulingmrs. It came quickly from China in 1 week, which surprised me.

The date code is "S2". According to this, it seems plausible that it is March 1957 or 1942. I guess it is overly optimistic to expect it to be '42.

Happy listening all.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> My bad. I guess I should have asked @gibosi then...


What’s bad? Only good! It is always good to ask questions!


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Glenn is tricky - it is hard to put tubes in the amp that don't sound pretty darn good. Here is a dual triode, making a rare appearance in my amp. This RCA 6N7 sounds pretty good out of the box and I do like the look of it. Below is also the 1st adapter I have gotten via xulingmrs. It came quickly from China in 1 week, which surprised me.
> 
> The date code is "S2". According to this, it seems plausible that it is March 1957 or 1942. I guess it is overly optimistic to expect it to be '42.
> 
> Happy listening all.


And it is always good to be optimistic! This tube is from the 4th quarter 1942.
The code word OPUS was used  in the 40s to delineate each quarter. O is the first quarter, P the second quarter of the year, U the third etc.


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> And it is always good to be optimistic! This tube is from the 4th quarter 1942.
> The code word OPUS was used  in the 40s to delineate each quarter. O is the first quarter, P the second quarter of the year, U the third etc.


 Forgot to add another detail that helps in dating WW2 tubes. During the years 1942-1945 tubes for civilian use were rationed, and they carried a M-R designation - Manufacturers Replacement. So if you cannot date a tube but it says M-R on it, it means that it was made between 1942 and 1945. This only applies to US made tubes.


----------



## hpamdr

chrisdrop said:


> Glenn is tricky - it is hard to put tubes in the amp that don't sound pretty darn good. Here is a dual triode, making a rare appearance in my amp. This RCA 6N7 sounds pretty good out of the box and I do like the look of it. Below is also the 1st adapter I have gotten via xulingmrs. It came quickly from China in 1 week, which surprised me.
> 
> The date code is "S2". According to this, it seems plausible that it is March 1957 or 1942. I guess it is overly optimistic to expect it to be '42.
> 
> Happy listening all.


 to me this is a 6N7*G,* it sound really great both in driver and power in otl amplifier. This pair also very well in driver with EL3N as power as the amplification factor is bigger than 6j5 or strapped el3N.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> What’s bad? Only good! It is always good to ask questions!


Haha. I meant my bad for addressing the question to you @mordy instead of to @gibosi 
I vaguely remembered (wrong) that you were the one to recommend sandpaper for cleaning pins...

So, now patiently waiting for @gibosi to take off his headphones, and realize the world has moved on (and questions are awaiting for him) while he was enjoying his music...


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> Haha. I meant my bad for addressing the question to you @mordy instead of to @gibosi
> I vaguely remembered (wrong) that you were the one to recommend sandpaper for cleaning pins...
> 
> So, now patiently waiting for @gibosi to take off his headphones, and realize the world has moved on (and questions are awaiting for him) while he was enjoying his music...



Like Mordy, I use a small knife, specifically, the dull edge of an X-Acto style knife, to clean the pins of all-glass 8-pin and 9-pin tubes. For tubes with larger pins, such as octals, 4-pin UX base and the European B-4 base, I use regular 200 grit sandpaper. I have never tried the "flexible" sandpaper you referenced above, so I have no idea how well it might work.


----------



## leftside (May 31, 2020)

The 6N7 pack a punch in any amp!

I use electronic cleaners/buds + isopropyl alcohol on the pins. If they appear dirty (most are) I use grit paper (600 I think) and then use isopropyl alcohol again. I used to use deoxit, but it's too messy - and you don't really want that stuff in tube sockets - so if you do use it be sure to clean up with isopropyl alcohol.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Glenn is tricky - it is hard to put tubes in the amp that don't sound pretty darn good. Here is a dual triode, making a rare appearance in my amp. This RCA 6N7G sounds pretty good out of the box and I do like the look of it. Below is also the 1st adapter I have gotten via xulingmrs. It came quickly from China in 1 week, which surprised me.
> 
> The date code is "S2". According to this, it seems plausible that it is March 1957 or 1942. I guess it is overly optimistic to expect it to be '42.
> 
> Happy listening all.


Pulled out my box of 6N7G tubes to check what I have. But first, these tubes come in three variants:
6N7 metal
6N7G shoulder type glass
6N7GT straight tubular glass
I have the following 6N7G tubes; mostly from the 40's: Arcturus, Sylvania, Ken-Rad and Mazda (Visseaux) - will have to revisit them. Also have the Mullard ECC31.
The Ken-Rad is a very pretty tube:


----------



## gibosi (May 31, 2020)

mordy said:


> And it is always good to be optimistic! This tube is from the 4th quarter 1942.
> The code word OPUS was used  in the 40s to delineate each quarter. O is the first quarter, P the second quarter of the year, U the third etc.



Actually, the OPUS code was used by Philco between 1935 and 1949. To my knowledge, no other manufacturer used this code.

For RCA, the source you cited is correct.

http://pax-comm.com/rcadates.pdf (pages 17 and 18)

And note that these are shipping date codes, not manufacturing date codes. So the tube was boxed and shipped during the two-month period, March-April, in 1942. And it could have been manufactured weeks, or even months earlier.


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Pulled out my box of 6N7G tubes to check what I have. But first, these tubes come in three variants:
> 6N7 metal
> 6N7G shoulder type glass
> 6N7GT straight tubular glass
> ...


Nice @mordy. Some 6N7* tubes have been "on my list" based on comments from this thread. I'll have to go back over the thread to see what combos people were running.

I have a lot of straight-glass and metal tubes. I wanted to add some pretty shoulder-types. I noticed on the radiomuseum link for the 6N7G, they list the GT as a successor tube. Is there some reason the straight-glass tubes were deemed "better" at the time? I can't really discern any "general properties" of shoulder-type vs straight-glass tubes, but if there are any consistent differences I'd be keen to hear/learn. 

@leftside - I think yours can take 6N7* tubes in the 6J5* slots, is that right? 

I was wondering what the oldest tubes I had were. I'll have to look. What are the oldest tubes that any of you are regularly using? I don't think I have any from the 30s... Now I have a mission. What are even the oldest feasible tubes for these amps? Things to ponder while listening ...


----------



## gibosi

chrisdrop said:


> Nice @mordy. Some 6N7* tubes have been "on my list" based on comments from this thread. I'll have to go back over the thread to see what combos people were running.
> 
> I have a lot of straight-glass and metal tubes. I wanted to add some pretty shoulder-types. I noticed on the radiomuseum link for the 6N7G, they list the GT as a successor tube. Is there some reason the straight-glass tubes were deemed "better" at the time? I can't really discern any "general properties" of shoulder-type vs straight-glass tubes, but if there are any consistent differences I'd be keen to hear/learn.
> 
> ...



With an external heater supply, I run No. 27 triodes as drivers, manufactured in 1929.


----------



## chrisdrop

gibosi said:


> With an external heater supply, I run No. 27 triodes as drivers, manufactured in 1929.


Very cool. _Love_ the look. After recent posts I had some 76 adapters / 76s on my list ... I guess the 56 and 27 are options if you externally heat them (<6,3v heater).


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Pulled out my box of 6N7G tubes to check what I have. But first, these tubes come in three variants:
> 6N7 metal
> 6N7G shoulder type glass
> 6N7GT straight tubular glass
> ...


Mordy, Do you want to try this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N7G-Vacuu...532481?hash=item44587f9581:g:0G0AAOSwkqBekLeT


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Nice @mordy. Some 6N7* tubes have been "on my list" based on comments from this thread. I'll have to go back over the thread to see what combos people were running.
> 
> I have a lot of straight-glass and metal tubes. I wanted to add some pretty shoulder-types. I noticed on the radiomuseum link for the 6N7G, they list the GT as a successor tube. Is there some reason the straight-glass tubes were deemed "better" at the time? I can't really discern any "general properties" of shoulder-type vs straight-glass tubes, but if there are any consistent differences I'd be keen to hear/learn.
> 
> ...


The 6J5 is a single triode and the 6N7 is a dual triode. Maybe you can make it work in the 6J5 socket with suitable adapters using two of the 6N7 tubes.
As a rule, the larger and older ST types often sound better than the GT (tubular glass) equivalents, but there are of course exceptions. Over the years the tubes became smaller and smaller. Before the transistor era sub miniature 6SN7 equivalents and others were developed with flying leads. Here is a picture where you can compare the size to a 6N6P 9pin tube:




And this is how one of them looks - comes as triodes, dual triodes and pentodes:


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Mordy, Do you want to try this:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N7G-Vacuu...532481?hash=item44587f9581:g:0G0AAOSwkqBekLeT


Thanks - looks good and the price is good but already sold. On the other hand I have what I imagine are similar sounding tubes - Tung Sol 6F8G. These tubes are very pretty looking.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Glenn is tricky - it is hard to put tubes in the amp that don't sound pretty darn good. Here is a dual triode, making a rare appearance in my amp. This RCA 6N7G sounds pretty good out of the box and I do like the look of it. Below is also the 1st adapter I have gotten via xulingmrs. It came quickly from China in 1 week, which surprised me.
> 
> The date code is "S2". According to this, it seems plausible that it is March 1957 or 1942. I guess it is overly optimistic to expect it to be '42.
> 
> Happy listening all.


Hi Chrisdrop,
Put in a 1949 Sylvania 6N7G (branded GM DELCO) together with the TFK EL11 and Bendix 6080WB.
After warming up for a while it is a very pleasant sound with beautiful midrange.



As you said, most tubes sound good in the GOTL....
And for once the tubes match in height (more or less)...


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Thanks - looks good and the price is good but already sold. On the other hand I have what I imagine are similar sounding tubes - Tung Sol 6F8G. These tubes are very pretty looking.


When I post, it's still available.  Next time, I will PM you. LOL


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> The 6J5 is a single triode and the 6N7 is a dual triode. Maybe you can make it work in the 6J5 socket with suitable adapters using two of the 6N7 tubes.
> As a rule, the larger and older ST types often sound better than the GT (tubular glass) equivalents, but there are of course exceptions. Over the years the tubes became smaller and smaller. Before the transistor era sub miniature 6SN7 equivalents and others were developed with flying leads. Here is a picture where you can compare the size to a 6N6P 9pin tube:
> 
> And this is how one of them looks - comes as triodes, dual triodes and pentodes:



You can try only using 1/2 the 6N7 or try tying both 1/2s in parallel and see if that works.
I am sure 1/2 will work fine.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> You can try only using 1/2 the 6N7 or try tying both 1/2s in parallel and see if that works.
> I am sure 1/2 will work fine.


Glenn - if using 1/2, won't it cause the tube (over time) to be unbalanced (1 side stay new while the other side wear out)?


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes it will over time.
You can have one adapter using the other 1/2 and switch every once in awhile.
The 6N7 is a output tube and using it in a 6J5 socket is barley using it at all so I don't think it will ever get week.
Plus nobody leaves the tubes in long enough to get one side week.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 31, 2020)

The 6N7 and 6J5 have similar pinouts, but the dual sections of the 6N7 have the orientation of the plates and grids swapped from that of the 6J5.  For compatibility of both tubes, the socket must be wired with the two 6N7 triodes in parallel.

6J5


6N7


----------



## 2359glenn

Just put a jumper wire between the 2 grids and 1/2 would be working.


----------



## hpamdr

2359glenn said:


> Just put a jumper wire between the 2 grids and 1/2 would be working.


In F.A. the drivers are 6SN7 where both triode are in parallel.
I have for my tube analyzer a strapped adapter i use to get amplification factor, Curves, .... in strapped parallel mode.
This is a sample adapter using socket (hole) and base (pin)
6N7 (G/GT)  Socket to 6J5 base
1 -> 1
2 -> 2
3 -> 3
*4 -> 5*
5 -> 5
*6 -> 3*
7 -> 7
8 -> 8

If you want to use the tube only in the 6J5 socket, yoiu can also connect directly the pin 4-5 and 3-6 on the tube base welding enameled cable.  

If you just plug, it will not work. You can connect pin 4/5 to only have Triode 1. If you only use this way you can unballance the tube stronger T2 after _*many many many hours of listening*_. (which should not occurs with usual tube rolling)

Another solution i've used in F.A is to build a 2 to 1 adapter like the 6SN7 socket in Gleen amp one triode by chanel..

1 socket 2 bases
So   Left   Right
1 -> 1        1
2 -> 2        *-*
3 -> 3        -
*4 -> 5        -*
5 -> -        5
*6 -> -         3 *
7 -> 7       *-*
8 -> 8       8

In this case i prefer to only use one amplifier side to heat 6N7 as normally you should not have a loop in the heating circuit.  The best is also to braid/twist connected wire 2 and 7 from base to socket...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Have some very rare tubes on the way, I am excited about them, Klangfilm 70503, near-equivalent to the Telefunken REN904.  They might not be pretty, but certain to be exquisite sonically, the seller sent me an offer I could not refuse for a NOS pair.  These will be the rarest tubes I have in my collection from this family, followed by the gold Telefunken REN904.  Can't wait to get them in my amp!


----------



## mordy

Are these tubes made by Telefunken? 30’s?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Are these tubes made by Telefunken? 30’s?



Klangfilm was founded by Siemens and AEG - parent company of Telefunken - pre-WWII.  In 1941 Siemens bought out AEG, so many post WWII Klangfilm products were labelled Siemens-Klangfilm.  Likely in part of their scarcity, there are no available datasheets for this particular model, they are listed as a near-equivalent to the REN904 on Radiomuseum, leading me to believe they are not internally identical, but it is possible they are the same, perhaps my ears will tell me  I'm sure our tube historian, Ken, could shed more light on the relationship between Klangfilm and AEG (read Telefunken).  And yes, 1930s.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Here are some other tubes I received today.

Beautiful NIB GEC U18/20, backup for the one being used in my 6A5 amplifier.


 

Have not purchased any 6J5 tubes in quite some time, but was keeping an eye out for a pair of these: Nippon Electric 6J5GT, Japanese subsidiary of Western Electric.

 

And a set of Hytron VT-62/801A, thoriated tungsten DHT outputs for the amplifier I am working on.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here are some other tubes I received today.
> 
> Beautiful NIB GEC U18/20, backup for the one being used in my 6A5 amplifier.
> 
> ...


Nice tubes  Thanks for sharing pictures.


----------



## mordy

The 801A tubes used thoriated tungsten which is said to be very minimally radioactive. What is your take on that?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

mordy said:


> The 801A tubes used thoriated tungsten which is said to be very minimally radioactive. What is your take on that?



Lighten up, buddy


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 1, 2020)

mordy said:


> The 801A tubes used thoriated tungsten which is said to be very minimally radioactive. What is your take on that?



Only a concern if I were to break open the tube, crush the filaments, and inhale the dust.  This is not on my bucket list  more likely to be killed by electrocution building the amplifier with a 700V B+.  I'm sure @2359glenn can weigh in as well.


----------



## Bullpride

A Glenn OTL showed up in the Classified yesterday.  Sold in less than an hour.  It was in rough shape.  Missed my chance


----------



## leftside

chrisdrop said:


> @leftside - I think yours can take 6N7* tubes in the 6J5* slots, is that right?


That's right.



L0rdGwyn said:


> The 6N7 and 6J5 have similar pinouts, but the dual sections of the 6N7 have the orientation of the plates and grids swapped from that of the 6J5.  For compatibility of both tubes, the socket must be wired with the two 6N7 triodes in parallel.
> 
> 6J5
> 
> ...


I think that's what my amp does. I seem to be running 6N7G in those sockets the most these days. The smaller 6N7 Mullard, Sicte and Fivre are also very good. Don't think I have any other 6N7 to try.


----------



## chrisdrop

leftside said:


> That's right.
> 
> 
> I think that's what my amp does. I seem to be running 6N7G in those sockets the most these days. The smaller 6N7 Mullard, Sicte and Fivre are also very good. Don't think I have any other 6N7 to try.


Sheesh! No breaks on Fivre tubes!


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Klangfilm was founded by Siemens and AEG - parent company of Telefunken - pre-WWII.  In 1941 Siemens bought out AEG, so many post WWII Klangfilm products were labelled Siemens-Klangfilm.  Likely in part of their scarcity, there are no available datasheets for this particular model, they are listed as a near-equivalent to the REN904 on Radiomuseum, leading me to believe they are not internally identical, but it is possible they are the same, perhaps my ears will tell me  I'm sure our tube historian, Ken, could shed more light on the relationship between Klangfilm and AEG (read Telefunken).  And yes, 1930s.



The only Klangfilm tubes I look at are rectifiers. And very frankly, I'm not sure that any I have seen were actually manufactured by Klangfilm, even those manufactured in the 1930's. What causes me to doubt is they all seem to have Telefunken date codes printed on the bottom of the bases. So I just don't know...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> The only Klangfilm tubes I look at are rectifiers. And very frankly, I'm not sure that any I have seen were actually manufactured by Klangfilm, even those manufactured in the 1930's. What causes me to doubt is they all seem to have Telefunken date codes printed on the bottom of the bases. So I just don't know...



No worries!  Let it be a mystery then  I am happy to have them either way.



Bullpride said:


> A Glenn OTL showed up in the Classified yesterday.  Sold in less than an hour.  It was in rough shape.  Missed my chance



Sorry you missed out, it appears to be an earlier build by Glenn before the advent of the 6BX7-capable OTL.  You might be happier with a current model with more tube options!


----------



## Bullpride

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sorry you missed out, it appears to be an earlier build by Glenn before the advent of the 6BX7-capable OTL. You might be happier with a current model with more tube options!



I suppose I will patiently wait at the end of the line.  Good things come to those that wait


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here are some other tubes I received today.
> 
> Beautiful NIB GEC U18/20, backup for the one being used in my 6A5 amplifier.
> 
> ...




Nice tubes. The U18/20 is a great rectifier and those output tubes look nice and sturdy!


----------



## whirlwind

Bullpride said:


> A Glenn OTL showed up in the Classified yesterday.  Sold in less than an hour.  It was in rough shape.  Missed my chance



That sold so fast I did not even know it was listed.
Amp looked to be in nice shape, just had some rust on the transformer.
Definitely an earlier build be Glenn. 
Some of his earlier builds had a very small footprint that looked pretty cool.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> Nice tubes. The U18/20 is a great rectifier and those output tubes look nice and sturdy!



Thanks, Joe.  Those 801A are known for being pretty rugged and long-lasting.  I probably went overboard having so many backup pairs, but I couldn't pass up a good deal (or three).  Looking forward to talking more about this amp soon, it's going to be a monster, hopefully a beautiful monster.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Keeping it simple tonight....the NU 12J5's and a pair of Mullard 6080's....

And a heck of a nice album that I bought without knowing what it sounded like, and was immensely pleased with it...Erich Avinger, his album "Si" from 1995:



Hope all continue to be safe...

Cheers...


~~JV~~


----------



## cdanguyen08

Bullpride said:


> I suppose I will patiently wait at the end of the line.  Good things come to those that wait


Our wait continues!


----------



## Xcalibur255

That OTL has rust everywhere, including places that shouldn't be rusting.  Even the chassis screws are showing rust.  The only way I can see this happening is leaving it outside or in a storage unit that isn't climate controlled for months.  Nothing that can't be taken care of, but very unusual nevertheless.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> That OTL has rust everywhere, including places that shouldn't be rusting.  Even the chassis screws are showing rust.  The only way I can see this happening is leaving it outside or in a storage unit that isn't climate controlled for months.  Nothing that can't be taken care of, but very unusual nevertheless.



The new owner might ask Glenn for the mains transformer specs and ask Heyboer to build another, replace the rusted chassis screws, and possibly the rusted sockets.  Everything else looks pretty good!  Just needs some TLC.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The Mullard 6080 / NU 12J5 combo sounds soooooo great that I wonder if a much smaller footprint amp could be made for this compliment, that sounds this good (hint hint)...


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> That OTL has rust everywhere, including places that shouldn't be rusting.  Even the chassis screws are showing rust.  The only way I can see this happening is leaving it outside or in a storage unit that isn't climate controlled for months.  Nothing that can't be taken care of, but very unusual nevertheless.



Wow that amp is so old I don't remember building it.
The transformer is a One Electron a power house compared to the transformers I use now.


----------



## Zachik

2359glenn said:


> Wow that amp is so old I don't remember building it.


Maybe a Chinese knock off....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Wow that amp is so old I don't remember building it.
> The transformer is a One Electron a power house compared to the transformers I use now.



Wonder how it sounded with some speakers


----------



## mordy

I am very thankful for Chrisdrop mentioning the use of the 6N7G in the GOTL. In the past I had acquired several such tubes. They need an adapter to be used in the 6SN7 driver socket (good for 6N7, 6N7GT and ECC31 as well). 
At this time I have tried a Sylvania, Ken-Rad and now an Arcturus tube. These 6N7G have the classical ST shape and are very pretty. In addition they can be found very inexpensive.
Arcturus was a US manufacturer from 1927 until the early 40's. As a marketing strategy they made many tubes with blue glass - I think that gibosi's 27 triodes from 1929 must have been made by Arcturus:



Arcturus went bankrupt in the early 40's and after this the company was sold and later it became a re-brander; the brand name continued into the 50's.
Here are pictures of my tube. It has very a distinct construction with round black plates and x-shaped micas - haven't found other 6N7G tubes with this construction:



Except for the name and the Made in USA I cannot find any other information on the tube. The first 6N7G tubes may have been made in 1936, and the hot etching on the base was used in the 30's.






My guess is that this tube was made in the 30's and that it is an Arcturus tube (not rebranded). The sound stage is wide and holographic with a sweet mid range. Bass and treble are excellent with the TFK EL11 and Bendix 6080WB.  
Using these 6N7G tubes reminds of the sound of old 78s and vinyl - full bodied and satisfying.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I think that gibosi's 27 triodes from 1929 must have been made by Arcturus:



Yes, they were.


----------



## mordy

Any thoughts of possible dating of the tube? It is so ironic that Arcturus and Tung Sol were made in Newark, NJ which is less than an hour from where I live. Alas, there is not a trace of these factories left.


----------



## mordy

Was talking a walk yesterday on an old railroad trail converted to a walking path and came upon this sign. It instantly reminded of many of the good folks on this forum who are constantly striving for sonic perfection:


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> I am very thankful for Chrisdrop mentioning the use of the 6N7G in the GOTL. In the past I had acquired several such tubes. They need an adapter to be used in the 6SN7 driver socket (good for 6N7, 6N7GT and ECC31 as well).
> At this time I have tried a Sylvania, Ken-Rad and now an Arcturus tube. These 6N7G have the classical ST shape and are very pretty. In addition they can be found very inexpensive.
> Arcturus was a US manufacturer from 1927 until the early 40's. As a marketing strategy they made many tubes with blue glass - I think that gibosi's 27 triodes from 1929 must have been made by Arcturus:
> 
> ...


Beautiful tube. My wife will even sometimes look with me at the inner workings of the beautiful little machines. Also, I hadn't heard about Arcturus. Thanks for the story. 

I've been enjoying that RCA 6N7 with Bendix 6080s this week. It is the 1st time for many months I have had a single driver in. I tried mixing it with some EL32s, but prefer it solo.  I have a nice pair of EL11s, and I need an adapter for it, which Deyan will make at some point soon I am sure. I will surely give the pairing a go.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Hot afternoon in the tropics .. fire up tubes and put some music on anyway haha. Air conditioning has its work cut out for it, DAC and USB bridge runs Class A hot too


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> Wow that amp is so old I don't remember building it.
> The transformer is a One Electron a power house compared to the transformers I use now.



I think that was the in-between period where you were having trouble getting the old Heyboer transformers but the Lundahls hadn't become a popular choice yet.

My OTL is 9 years old now and looks exactly the same as it did on Day 1 aside from my putting a different volume knob on it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> Beautiful tube. My wife will even sometimes look with me at the inner workings of the beautiful little machines. Also, I hadn't heard about Arcturus. Thanks for the story.
> 
> I've been enjoying that RCA 6N7 with Bendix 6080s this week. It is the 1st time for many months I have had a single driver in. I tried mixing it with some EL32s, but prefer it solo.  I have a nice pair of EL11s, and I need an adapter for it, which Deyan will make at some point soon I am sure. I will surely give the pairing a go.



I too, think 6N7's shine in the GOTL.

And have been wondering if 2x 6N7's (using 1/2 of each) in a custom adapter would bring any additional goodness...?


----------



## JazzVinyl

UsoppNoKami said:


> Hot afternoon in the tropics .. fire up tubes and put some music on anyway haha. Air conditioning has its work cut out for it, DAC and USB bridge runs Class A hot too



Your amp is beautifully, Dust Free!!  Makes we want to dust mine


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Your amp is beautifully, Dust Free!!  Makes we want to dust mine


It’s funny - I usually only notice the dust on my amp after I post a picture.....


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Your amp is beautifully, Dust Free!!  Makes we want to dust mine



This made me look at my amp, and it was pretty dusty, so I did the deed.
I try to dust my listening room every week, but it has been a couple of weeks for me.
My EL3N amp is on the smaller chassis than Glenn uses now, so I need to use Q-tips between the three Lundahl's  

Get the broom out, dust them off and post some pics fella's!


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> It’s funny - I usually only notice the dust on my amp after I post a picture.....



I know, right...you see the picture and say, "man, I need to dust"


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> My EL3N amp is on the smaller chassis than Glenn uses now, so I need to use Q-tips between the three Lundahl's


Joe, did you floss (your Lundahl's)?


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> I know, right...you see the picture and say, "man, I need to dust"


English is a funny language (not my native language):
When you water - you add water. So, why when you dust - you do not add dust but rather remove it?!


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> So, why when you dust - you do not add dust but rather remove it?!


Why do we drive on the parkway and park in the driveway?


----------



## 2359glenn

Xcalibur255 said:


> I think that was the in-between period where you were having trouble getting the old Heyboer transformers but the Lundahls hadn't become a popular choice yet.
> 
> My OTL is 9 years old now and looks exactly the same as it did on Day 1 aside from my putting a different volume knob on it.



Yours has a Thordarson Transformer they got crazy with there prices and had to switch company's.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm still coming to terms with the fact that I cannot seem to trust my memory anymore.......


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'm still coming to terms with the fact that I cannot seem to trust my memory anymore.......


I think the medical term for that is: getting old...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Zachik said:


> I think the medical term for that is: getting old...



I CAN'T HEAR YOU.....


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> I CAN'T HEAR YOU.....


Hmmmm...... so maybe I should buy your gear for half-off since you cannot enjoy it anymore....


----------



## mordy

Hi X255,
In defense of older people not remembering things here and there, I want to offer the following explanation: 
It is not that you are really forgetful, but having been exposed to so many life experiences, there is so much *more* to remember than a younger person - no wonder that a couple of things may get lost. In truth, we remember much more than somebody with less years.....LOL


----------



## Xcalibur255

Zachik said:


> Hmmmm...... so maybe I should buy your gear for half-off since you cannot enjoy it anymore....


I actually can't bring myself to make jokes about that one because it is half true now.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> This made me look at my amp, and it was pretty dusty, so I did the deed.
> I try to dust my listening room every week, but it has been a couple of weeks for me.
> My EL3N amp is on the smaller chassis than Glenn uses now, so I need to use Q-tips between the three Lundahl's
> 
> Get the broom out, dust them off and post some pics fella's!


Hi whirlwind,
For dusting I use a microfiber cloth. It occurs to me that sliding that cloth down between the transformers would be much easier than using Q-tips. 
I also use that cloth for handling hot tubes. Sometimes a tube moves around a little in the socket and there is slight noise (heat expansion?) and I may have to move it a little while it is on, and the cloth protects my fingers.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I make sure my amp is reasonably dusted before taking a photo, because I am a little OCD!  I use a Giottos Rocket for light dusting, which I also use for camera lens and other delicate items


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> I make sure my amp is reasonably dusted before taking a photo, because I am a little OCD!  I use a Giottos Rocket for light dusting, which I also use for camera lens and other delicate items


I agree -  Giottos Rocket is awesome (and a must for photography!).


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Hi X255,
> In defense of older people not remembering things here and there, I want to offer the following explanation:
> It is not that you are really forgetful, but having been exposed to so many life experiences, there is so much *more* to remember than a younger person - no wonder that a couple of things may get lost. In truth, we remember much more than somebody with less years.....LOL


Great! I thought it was the cannabis. I don't need to worry now


----------



## JazzVinyl

Zachik said:


> I agree -  Giottos Rocket is awesome (and a must for photography!).



Gonna have to get one of these


----------



## gibosi

An interesting video on the AWA YouTube Channel by Tom Perera, about Phil Weingarten, a maker of counterfeit tubes, radios and telegraph keys. Think tubes and devices from the very early 1900's. I hope you enjoy it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Another sweet GOTL combo


----------



## whirlwind

Just added a  Giottos Rocket to my Amazon cart.


----------



## hpamdr (Jun 5, 2020)

gibosi said:


> An interesting video on the AWA YouTube Channel by Tom Perera, about Phil Weingarten, a maker of counterfeit tubes, radios and telegraph keys. Think tubes and devices from the very early 1900's. I hope you enjoy it.


This is very interesting and remind me another article (to read) about fake Telefunken tube..

_--edited link _


----------



## NickT23

Hello, what headphone do you paired with ? Also what is the sound signature of that Glenn OTL tube ?


----------



## Jaeger18 (Jun 6, 2020)

hey just take my words with a grain of salt.. but after lots of research i found this, hope this helps:



i dont own one, but am planning to get one and right now im in the middle of a discussion with glenn regarding
customizing my config GOTL to suit my need,  all i know is that GOTL is one of the few amps that you can almost
customize to your liking.

If you are new like me, i think its best to go thru a few past posts, it will definitely help you understands more.
Here are a few pointers:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/post-15638513

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/post-15273830


and regarding tubes etc:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...1ZcM9yQOHax_vNvK0HI-Y/htmlview#gid=2045481180


im still learning about tubes, so someone else might give you a better understanding regarding tubes..

@NickT23


----------



## Jaeger18

and please do correct me if im wrong... i know nothing, just trying to help...


----------



## NickT23

Hello really appreciate it. I cannot correct you as am a noob myself !

Why do you want to get the glennOTL amp ? Can you show me what did you asked him ? Because I also asked him and it seems he dont reply at all. What are you paring with and what dac ? For me I wanna get it for the sake of ZMF dynamic cans based on other forum on synergy level, also the dac am getting is Okto Research Dac Stereo 8 to pair with it. Its my solid state pairing and am not sure if it compatible to glennOTL amp or tube amp in general.


----------



## Jaeger18 (Jun 5, 2020)

the main reason is to complement my hd800s. My other headphone is zmf VC dont quote me on this but Glenn told me that it blends really well with Verite (he didnt say VC thou). The other reason why i am really interested on GOTL is because of its versitility to tube roll and since i am a tinker, i will definitely want to  tube roll in the future when ive got GOTL in my hand... about DAC ill let someone else explain! Im currently using MATRIX AUDIO X-SABRE PRO, have not got any chance to hear when paired with GOTL..

Note that Glenn is still in the process of moving his stuff to his new house and a new job, so youve got to be patience..

But from what the Head-fiers told me.. waiting on his amp is going to be 10000000% worthed..

at the mean time.. for us NOOBS.. its best to use the time that we have to research more about GOTL..

@NickT23


----------



## NickT23

Dont take it personally. You seem very rich to able to mentioned and even own expensive crap. Not bad. My apologize, my statement is just for fun.

Anyway, so your  MATRIX AUDIO X-SABRE PRO is so happen to be as your main dac that paired with your main solid state so assuming you are also new into tube and the rabbit hole of tubes. Well, if you so happen to have DAC information with the Glen OTL tube do let me know. Do you have any idea what are the competitor to the Glen OTL tube regardless of whether its a high end boutique, DIY manufacturer or DIY enthusiast like Glen himself ??? (something that is highly customization with long term scalability with tube rolling) 

Why do you go for ZMF VC over VO ? Also, how does your ZMF VC sounds like and what did you paired with ? Solid state ?


----------



## Bonddam

I'd like one of Glenn's amps but got confused by adapter and not using all the sockets. Tubes confuse me as well.


----------



## DecentLevi

Jaeger18 said:


> and please do correct me if im wrong... i know nothing, just trying to help...


Apa kbaharanya di Indonesia (how are you doing in Indonesia). Just a quick note - the website starting with the word "super" that you linked to in above post 36,835 is forbidden on Head-Fi probably due to a specific competitor status, so I'd recommend taking down that link to avoid any serious moderation issues here on Head-Fi... don't get me wrong it's not my rule, just trying to help you.


NickT23 said:


> (...) Do you have any idea what are the competitor to the Glen OTL tube regardless of whether its a high end boutique, DIY manufacturer or DIY enthusiast like Glen himself ??? (something that is highly customization with long term scalability with tube rolling)
> (...)


User UntilThen here has a bunch of comparisons on this thread to his Studio Six from Alo Audio, and that would definitely seem to be the adjacent competitor to Glenn OTL from what I've read. More here.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey I thought some of you would have any opinions or insight into the dampening / isolation feet for components I spoke of on another thread:



DecentLevi said:


> Though I'm not the expert on speaker acoustics and vibration treatments, I would assume the use of a speaker mount (speaker stand?) would negate the need for an isolation cone with pike that you were mentioning like this:
> 
> As far as I can tell these are only useful to level out the tilt on devices and can help acoustics of speakers by raising them off the floor a little vs. the speaker box placed directly on something, but not sure if the area where the pike meets the disc has an absorption / dampening properties? If your speaker stand is on carpet I would assume hard or soft bottom of stand wouldn't make any difference, otherwise on a hard surface probably a rubber bottom of it would absorb some frequencies.
> 
> ...


----------



## Bonddam

Glenn build me an amp.


----------



## Jaeger18 (Jun 6, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> Apa kbaharanya di Indonesia (how are you doing in Indonesia). Just a quick note - the website starting with the word "super" that you linked to in above post 36,835 is forbidden on Head-Fi probably due to a specific competitor status, so I'd recommend taking down that link to avoid any serious moderation issues here on Head-Fi... don't get me wrong it's not my rule, just trying to help you.



lol kabar baik... so sorry bout that... thanks for the quick note...ill edit it right now


----------



## Jaeger18 (Jun 6, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> Dont take it personally. You seem very rich to able to mentioned and even own expensive crap. Not bad. My apologize, my statement is just for fun.
> 
> Anyway, so your  MATRIX AUDIO X-SABRE PRO is so happen to be as your main dac that paired with your main solid state so assuming you are also new into tube and the rabbit hole of tubes. Well, if you so happen to have DAC information with the Glen OTL tube do let me know. Do you have any idea what are the competitor to the Glen OTL tube regardless of whether its a high end boutique, DIY manufacturer or DIY enthusiast like Glen himself ??? (something that is highly customization with long term scalability with tube rolling)
> 
> Why do you go for ZMF VC over VO ? Also, how does your ZMF VC sounds like and what did you paired with ? Solid state ?



im just a guy who is obssesed with music..my current system line up is:

PC > MATRIX AUDIO X-SABRE PRO > insprie dragon IHA-1 > hd800s / VC

i love my current setup, but i do feel there is a lack in bass, some of you might say go for SS amp or change headphones. Infact i do have SS amp, and not saying i hate it, but for sure it is far from my expactation...
After hearing all the good things / synergy of GOTL + HD800s ( a fuller body, good bass extension) / Verite, and since i am a tinker and love dynamic headphones, i think i owe myself a GOTL...

The reason why i chose VC is because it has a more presence to my ear. And since ive a 1 year old baby and dont want to wake her up during her bedtime, VC helps me to dampen the noise,
so i dont have to think twice to crank my amp up to enjoy listening to my music.

But at the end of the day you have to ask yourself one thing, what music genre do you like to listen. I listen to jazz, instruments, lots of john mayer... and a bit of EDM
@NickT23


----------



## hpamdr (Jun 6, 2020)

Bonddam said:


> I'd like one of Glenn's amps but got confused by adapter and not using all the sockets. Tubes confuse me as well.


 With most of the tube amplifier, you have regular tube and socket As a sample for a lot of OTL amp: i.e 6J5  triode tube for driver or single 6SN7 for L/R, and 6AS7G tube for output. If you use same kind of tube, you do not need anything else.
If you want to experience alternative tube (Tube Rolling) as driver or power tube, as if is not the same pinout or not the same socket to use, you have to :

build/purchase an adapter to fit your tube in the amplifier socket and keep the same "type"
if it is a Glenn amp you can ask to have alternative socket (in this case, the adapter will be directly available on the amplifier.) 
For the GOTL some version can have up to six output tubes depending of your headphone, you can decide to go with 1/2/3 tube per channel to best pair with your headphone impedance.

For driver you can have single triode on 6J5 socket or if you asked for 6sn7 you can use only a single tube for both channel an let the other socket empty.

With your current setup, yo can try to find a pair of *kenrad black glass driver *(6sn7gt vt-231) have much more bass and punch but you probably to change rectifier if you do not want to lack some details...  If your amp support it, you can also use Ratheon 6BX7 (you will have to turn more your vol knob) or 6BL7 in midle of 6SN7... Even if you want to use adpater you can use Mullard ECC31   and GZ34, or 6N7G visseaux, mazda using same adapter..
ECC32 na adapter but quite expensive...
You can also use a firmer rectifier like  *Westinghouse 5U4G*  (I'm personally not in this game...)

HD800 is also quite bright (specially if it is not damped) so zmf auteur or verite can also helps you to have deeper bass and dynamic.


----------



## Jaeger18

my current setup

@NickT23


----------



## NickT23

Bonddam said:


> I'd like one of Glenn's amps but got confused by adapter and not using all the sockets. Tubes confuse me as well.


Where are you from ? So what is your main headphone and current amp you are using ?


----------



## NickT23

Why do you go for ZMF VC over VO ? Also, how does your ZMF VC sounds like and what did you paired with ? Solid state ? What about a respond for that ?

Thanks for the setup pics. Can I see your ZMF VC as well ? You only own one ZMF dynamic ?


----------



## NickT23

Thanks for respond. I did not see this respond of yours so my apologies. 

What solid state you currently own ? What do you mean by its far by your expectation ?

Before the purchase of your VC, have you heard both VO and VC ? Since you live in Indonesia, where did you get your ZMF VC ? 

In your opinion, how does your VC compare to the VO ? 

Are you going to replace the  inspire dragon IHA-1 over Glenn OTL tubes ? If not mistaken inspire dragon can tube roll but not as much flexibility and endless option as Glenn OTL right ?

Do you have any idea what are the competitor to the Glen OTL tube regardless of whether its a high end boutique, DIY manufacturer or DIY enthusiast like Glen himself ??? (something that is highly customization with long term scalability with tube rolling). Because I really cannot find any other options online or forums. 

So far, did that Glenn guy respond any of your message ? 

As for music genre, I pretty much listen to everything. Particularly instrument based jazz and classical and fast paced bass, such as EDM and other bassy tracks as well as Metal/rock on a consistent basis. But practically everything even anime and soundtrack from movies and games.


----------



## Jaeger18 (Jun 6, 2020)

my friend owns both VO and VC, so im privilege to hear both before buying.  As i said before VC is a bit more engaging if u are unsure
my advice is that you should ask Zach personally like i did but its best to listen by yourself . 

Yea you answered the question, yes GOTL is more flexible than iha-1.(Note that i only hv iha-1 less than a month, i still
have to buy tubes to please my need, but out of the box, its fine) I have a strong feeling that i will sell my iha-1 when i got my GOTL,
but i still have to reconsider after  comparing between the two.

my SS is thx 789, i cant really compare to other better SS amps, but all i know is, tube will give me a better warmth to complement
my hd800s. i even use a copper cable to increase its warmness...

i lent my VC to my brother atm.. so i cant take a pic...

Ive considered various of other SET / OTL tube amp such as bottlehead mainline, dna stratus, but ended up going for GOTL because
of its flexibility to tube roll. Maybe its just me, but i got triggered whenever i hear CUSTOM MADE, i know it is going to give an edge to any gear...
thats my personal conclusion.

Yes Glenn replied to my massages, just note that he is busy, it takes time...

Note that something that i like might not suit your taste..


----------



## NickT23

Your friend seems to be rich able to afford $5000 for both headphone. Cost less than my car. 

Anyway, based on your hearing what is the sound signature like ? Forget whether its engaging as closed characteristics usually more engaging than open back. 

Since you live in Indonesia, where did you get your ZMF VC ? 

Can you tell me what did you asked and what did he respond ? Maybe you can copy and paste for me ?

Honestly speaking there are no other tubes like Glenn because tubes are infamous for being infamous and variety of high end tube manufacturer emphasizing with their own house sound with tubes. In other words, less flexibility and endless limit of tube rolling like Glenn OTL. 

And yes, HD800S compliments with ZMF cans. As for me, I would go for the Hifiman with ZMF. I like the HD800S as well.


----------



## Jaeger18 (Jun 6, 2020)

Being rich is not the point here... We are here to point out the facts about Glenns amp...

Im not good at pointing out its sound signature, personally i think VC is more intimate, tighter bass
and you could even change pads to get a wider soundstage.

Ive got someone here that is close to Zach himself, or at least he told me that...

I think its not appropriate to show my PM to you, i think you should ask Glenn personally.

i cant comment on Hifiman...


----------



## NickT23

Yes true its not the point but just referencing that statement as a chat statement. Ok, so we go straight to the point. 

You are not good but that its okay, just wanna know your impression. Even without demoing, am good at evaluating sound but that is beside the point. So if the VC is more intimate, tighter bass then what about the VO in your opinion ?

So someone you met on head-fi order and ship to you instead ? Why cant you directly order and purchase through ZMF yourself ?

To me its appropriate. Because if its related, I dont mind showing my pm to you. I dont keep any secrets and am straight forward, No BS mentality !

Are there any question you provide to him ? How many in general ? I sent one long message to him.


----------



## Jaeger18

i personally think VO is  fast pace, has good bass, wide soundstage but since i already hv hd800s, i decided to pick VC instead. 
With that said, i think most ppl lean towards VO, but then again, it all comes down to personal preference. i picked VC because its closed
back and more intimate.

about Zach, yes you can buy directly, but sending to Indonesia requires you to pay a huge amount of tax. Luckily my friend has connection
to zach and travels alot... so its a no brainer to let him buy VC for me.

ok back to glenn otl...
He offered me 2 versions of amps, "basic" and "extra". And i gave the spec that i wanted and asked if he could combined my personal config with his 
"extra" amp version. there is no secret or anythn in my PM, but its best to ask him personally, he might be late to reply, but im sure he will when he has the 
time.

I did find answers to most of my question thru searching online, and members in this thread HELPS me a lot... but if you have any harder questions / questions 
you cant find the answers to, im sure Glenn will be happy to answer all your questions..


----------



## attmci

hpamdr said:


> With most of the tube amplifier, you have regular tube and socket As a sample for a lot of OTL amp: i.e 6J5  triode tube for driver or single 6SN7 for L/R, and 6AS7G tube for output. If you use same kind of tube, you do not need anything else.
> If you want to experience alternative tube (Tube Rolling) as driver or power tube, as if is not the same pinout or not the same socket to use, you have to :
> 
> build/purchase an adapter to fit your tube in the amplifier socket and keep the same "type"
> ...


GZ34 as driver? hmmm.

Why other GOTL owner keep silence here? I am just a GOTL fan, but not an owner.


----------



## gibosi

hpamdr said:


> Even if you want to use adpater you can use Mullard ECC31 and GZ34, or 6N7G visseaux, mazda using same adapter..



Ummm... The GZ34 is a tube rectifier. It cannot be used with the same adapter as the ECC31 or 6N7G. And in fact, if your GOTL will use tube rectifiers, the GZ34 doesn't need an adapter. It is "plug and play."


----------



## Bonddam (Jun 6, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> Where are you from ? So what is your main headphone and current amp you are using ?


My only rig is tt2 WA33 main headphone is 1266 tc. From NJ.


----------



## whirlwind

Bonddam said:


> My only rig is tt2 WA33 main headphone is 1266 tc. From NJ.



You have some killer gear...you should not be afraid of tubes as you already own a WA33


----------



## Bonddam

whirlwind said:


> You have some killer gear...you should not be afraid of tubes as you already own a WA33


I’m confused by nos tube numbers being different from new production tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

Bonddam said:


> I’m confused by nos tube numbers being different from new production tubes.




I know it can get a bit confusing because Glenn's OTL can take so many tubes. There is always someone around here that can help with tube questions and you will usually get a response from someone in a timely manner.

Some tubes may need adapters for them to work, but it really is not intimidating to be honest.


----------



## NickT23

Yes that is true shipping to Asia and EU is a nightmare for most of them and even for us. Not to mentioned VAT and GAT taxes due to government tariffs policies along with exchange rate. So your friend from Indonesia travel to USA often ? 

So based on his glennOTL, which one you opt after, the "basic" or "extra". Spec means both your HD800s and ZMF VC in terms of impedence, sensitivity, high load power and such right ? For me I think I would go for extra for more option in the long run. 

If you could, I would like to see the VC if you dont mind. Do you have any other two headphone ? And yes, these two headphone complement really well. 

By the way, I wonder whether we could live chat here ?

Am sure he would, I hope but guess I need more patients.


----------



## Bonddam

whirlwind said:


> I know it can get a bit confusing because Glenn's OTL can take so many tubes. There is always someone around here that can help with tube questions and you will usually get a response from someone in a timely manner.
> 
> Some tubes may need adapters for them to work, but it really is not intimidating to be honest.


Reason I’m doing it because Glenn’s amps seem more fun with rolling tubes. The WA33 there isn’t much out there for instance drivers tubes have 2 options. Also very expensive to roll. Like to go with the amp Monster got which I think in his you tube video was $1500.


----------



## hpamdr (Jun 6, 2020)

gibosi said:


> Ummm... The GZ34 is a tube rectifier. It cannot be used with the same adapter as the ECC31 or 6N7G. And in fact, if your GOTL will use tube rectifiers, the GZ34 doesn't need an adapter. It is "plug and play."


The  insprie dragon IHA-1 amp use 6SN7 tube as driver and a 5U4 rectifier...
One of my friend use ECC31 as driver (with 6n7 to 6SN7 adapter) and GZ34 as rectifier on place of 5U4 (no adapter) on a similar amplifier. for him ecc31 add a bit of warmness without removing details and GZ34 is a good matching rectifier..


----------



## Jaeger18 (Jun 6, 2020)

Dont get me wrong, the reason why i am customizing my amp is so that  my GOTL has the ability to have MORE option for tube rolling not based on the impedence, sensitivity and high load power of my headphones...

You can look VC online.. its the same thing... and no i dont hv anymore HP..

Im sure there are lots of ppl in this thread that are more qualified to explain GOTL way better than me.. we are on the same page, i just have the urge to understand what i am buying and in order to achieve my understanding , i do research and read more post in this thread.. and if im stuck i usually ask questions here or PM someone who actually has one or Glenn..

@NickT23


----------



## NickT23

Understood. Just asking based on your impression. The sad reality is that we are unable to demo as the industry does not support local dealer and different multiple setup and combination. This is why we have meet up and events but noisy crowd and all that is an issue. In US, they have the privilege most of the time.


----------



## chrisdrop (Jun 6, 2020)

I really enjoyed the 6N7 roll for the last week or so. I thought I'd give these Mullard 6J5Gs a go. These have been in the amp for maybe 20h and they need some more time to loosen up IMO. I had them solo, but just added 2x (also Mullard) EL32s which added their usual spaciousness and goodness. I couldn't find any date codes on the 6J5s. I'll have to inspect them more closely when I take them out next. Leftside mentioned they were harder to come by the brown-base variety. Not sure why that is, but I'll take it.

I also bought a cheap backup 2x 6J5>6SN7 adapter (at the same time as a single 6N7>6SN7 adapter, from a Chinese seller). I am giving that a go in the below pic. Deyan made my main adapter of this form, but I roll into it very frequently and if it ever broke (which it shows no signs of doing), I would cry. This adapter seems to work fine, but it is not as pretty as Deyans. It is also using a PCB. I am not sure if that will be lesser or not. I assume trivially so if at all. It is also sideways with no swivel, like my the one Deyan made.

_... let's see how we do this week after they settle in ..._


----------



## hpamdr (Jun 7, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> I also bought a cheap backup 2x 6J5>6SN7 adapter (at the same time as a single 6N7>6SN7 adapter, from a Chinese seller). I am giving that a go in the below pic. Deyan made my main adapter of this form, but I roll into it very frequently and if it ever broke (which it shows no signs of doing), I would cry. This adapter seems to work fine, but it is not as pretty as Deyans. It is also using a PCB. I am not sure if that will be lesser or not. I assume trivially so if at all. It is also sideways with no swivel, like my the one Deyan made.


@chrisdrop the chinese adapter is sometime not safe to use. For driver like 6J5 to 6SN7 it is OK but i would not use any variant for output. This is not the case for sure with 2x 6J5 -> 6SN7 i also advise to not mix  tube without giving a detailed look to the PCB and welding.
connieflyer on F.A.thread Euforia _they mix crazy output tube_  had amp and tube damaged....


@2359glenn do you have any advise on mixing tube like 6J5 or 6SN7 and EL32 or EL3N  EL11  in driver side ?


----------



## chrisdrop

hpamdr said:


> @chrisdrop the chinese adapter is sometime not safe to use. For driver like 6J5 to 6SN7 it is OK but i would not use any variant for output.
> connieflyer on F.A.thread Euforia _they mix crazy output tube_  had amp and tube damaged....
> (this is not the case for sure with 6J5) i also advise to not mix (i.e 6j5 + EL32 in one adapter) tube without giving a detailed look to the PCB and welding.
> @2359glenn do you have any advise on mixing tube like 6J5 or 6SN7 and EL32 or EL3N  EL11  in driver side ?


Thanks for that. Very sad that connieflyer had Euforia damage. I use only socket savers from Deyan in my outputs, mostly to lift hot Bendix tubes away from the chassis. 

Did the adapter connieflyer's case have a voltage change or something else? I think the 6J5 adapter really just makes it look exactly like the 6SN7 (double triode), given that each is a single triode it is a straightforwards mapping.

I believe several here have used 2x EL32 (and EL11) in the c3g slots and another tube or tubes in 6SN7 socket (6J5s for example). What is your concern for this configuration? You are more technically knowledgable than I am, so I am keen to understand.


----------



## mordy (Jun 7, 2020)

Glenn was concerned that a triple driver configuration would overload a resistor by drawing too much current, but to date JV (who first thought of using three drivers) and myself have not had any problems using up to 2.6A (EL11 0.9Ax2 and 6N7G 0.8A) combined for the driver tubes. It is important not to go over 13A total for all tubes in the GOTL, but it is an unlikely scenario.
In addition (just to be on the safe side), I use two fans for cooling even though the amp doesn't get really hot without them.


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Glenn was concerned that a triple driver configuration would overload a resistor by drawing too much current, but to date JV (who first thought of using three drivers) and myself have not had any problems using up to 2.6A (EL11 0.9Ax2 and 6N7G 0.8A) combined for the driver tubes. It is important not to go over 13A total for all tubes in the GOTL, but it is an unlikely scenario.


I hadn't appreciated there was a risk/concern. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> I hadn't appreciated there was a risk/concern. Thanks for sharing.


I added a line to my post about fans.


----------



## maxpudding

Has anyone measured or got a thermal imager to see how the temperature from the tubes affects the overall surroundings of the GOTL? That'll be an interesting thing to see, but I need to loan the thermal imager from a colleague's lab, right after I receive the amp, of course. Hopefully, Glenn will soon start building amps


----------



## NickT23

Hello Chris, one member from headfi stated you know alot about the GlennTube so was wondering which one you after and the reasoning of opting for that particular model and tube. Also what headphone did you paired with ?


----------



## chrisdrop

NickT23 said:


> Hello Chris, one member from headfi stated you know alot about the GlennTube so was wondering which one you after and the reasoning of opting for that particular model and tube. Also what headphone did you paired with ?


_"in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king". _I am at best a one-eyed man in this case . Many know more than me, but I am happy to share my minimal experience. I would not rely on my advice alone (not that you would).

My signature (at the bottom of this post) has my gear/setup. If you click on the links you can see. My main headphones are ZMF Verite Closed. You can read any comments on it on that thread. There are several happy Verite and Verite closed Glenn OTL amp users.

Regarding types of Glenn amps, these give the major options: here and here. I think the most common Genn amp is like mine (but I may be wrong).

My notes and FAQ are here, and may be of help.

I wanted a nice amp with many tube rolling options. Several people on the forum messaged me to help me understand the options. Of course, Glenn was also there to help. In the end, I also got lucky and an amp suiting my spec became available sooner than expected (this rarely/never happens I believe, so don't bet on that!).

_My _small _personal_ feelings:

Especially with adapters, there is a huge space of tube rolling possible with one of Glenn's OTL amplifiers.
Lundhal transformer, no tube rectifier (quietest possible setup). Several others will feel much more strongly about having tube rectification.
I rarely ever use 6x outputs, so 4x outputs would probably work for me.
Parts upgrades like Jupiter caps are probably a good idea.
You will spend money on tubes. Be prepared for that. It will sound very good with whatever tubes you use, but with tube experimentation, you can really suit yourself.
If you use planar headphones, OTL is probably not a good choice. Other people with different Glenn amps can comment on that.
The 6/12/25v switch is excellent because it lets you use more tubes, and pay less for good tubes.
I hope that is helpful.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Glenn was concerned that a triple driver configuration would overload a resistor by drawing too much current, but to date JV (who first thought of using three drivers) and myself have not had any problems using up to 2.6A (EL11 0.9Ax2 and 6N7G 0.8A) combined for the driver tubes. It is important not to go over 13A total for all tubes in the GOTL, but it is an unlikely scenario.
> In addition (just to be on the safe side), I use two fans for cooling even though the amp doesn't get really hot without them.





chrisdrop said:


> I hadn't appreciated there was a risk/concern. Thanks for sharing.



The concern here isn't related to the 2.6A heater current, it is related to the driver tube plate current.  The driver stage is loaded with a plate resistor, one resistor per triode section, current flowing through these resistors drop some voltage from the B+.  Because the amp is built to be used with one type of driver at any time (6SN7 vs C3g, for example), a single plate resistor is wired to both sockets, such that it loads one driver plate or the other.  With a three tube configuration, you have increased the number of plates being loaded by a single resistor from one to two, so an increase in plate current, meaning an increase in power dissipation in the resistor.  Increasing the plate current will increase the voltage drop across the plate resistor as well, lowering the plate voltage of the driver tube, altering its bias point.  So, more plate current > more power dissipated in plate resistor > more heat > more chance for resistor explosions.  Someone did blow up one of these resistors at some point using a three tube setup, so Glenn increased the power rating of the resistors to prevent it from happening again, so shouldn't be an issue with newer GOTL builds.


----------



## NickT23

L0rdGwyn said:


> The concern here isn't related to the 2.6A heater current, it is related to the driver tube plate current.  The driver stage is loaded with a plate resistor, one resistor per triode section, current flowing through these resistors drop some voltage from the B+.  Because the amp is built to be used with one type of driver at any time (6SN7 vs C3g, for example), a single plate resistor is wired to both sockets, such that it loads one driver plate or the other.  With a three tube configuration, you have increased the number of plates being loaded by a single resistor from one to two, so an increase in plate current, meaning an increase in power dissipation in the resistor.  Increasing the plate current will increase the voltage drop across the plate resistor as well, lowering the plate voltage of the driver tube, altering its bias point.  So, more plate current > more power dissipated in plate resistor > more heat > more chance for resistor explosions.  Someone did blow up one of these resistors at some point using a three tube setup, so Glenn increased the power rating of the resistors to prevent it from happening again, so shouldn't be an issue with newer GOTL builds.


Am too dumb to understand all these ?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

NickT23 said:


> Am too dumb to understand all these ?



Not too dumb, perhaps just not familiar with how tube amps work?  You don't need to know all the technicalities to enjoy Glenn's amps, but since there was some question about the integrity of the resistors, thought I would explain why Glenn was concerned about a triple driver setup.  He now rates these resistors such that they can take the extra current.


----------



## NickT23

I still dont understand. What is resistors ?  I only know about tube rolling but not installing


----------



## L0rdGwyn

NickT23 said:


> I still dont understand. What is resistors ?  I only know about tube rolling but not installing



You don't need to know this stuff to operate the amp, it is extra.  To listen and enjoy the Glenn OTL, you just need the amp, some headphones, and some tubes.  The resistors are part of the amplifier circuit, you don't need knowledge of its operation unless you are curious to learn how the amplifier circuit functions.


----------



## NickT23

Understood. So where do I start ? How to choose ? And why is Glenn OTL tube are the only OTL tube that has endless customization in the market ? Like no competitors at all !


----------



## hpamdr (Jun 7, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> The concern here isn't related to the 2.6A heater current, it is related to the driver tube plate current.  ....  So, more plate current > more power dissipated in plate resistor > more heat > more chance for resistor explosions.


 No explosion but just overheat, smell, cook, burn....
My concern was more on having triode in // with very different electric specification. It should result with unequal load on each tube.
What i'm not sure is how this differential load can affect or damage one of the tube..I hope @2359glenn could be more specific about his amp limitation taking into account rectifier if it have any sense.
_If i recall correctly, i've been told by Glenn that single triode as driver is more fitting his design...  _


----------



## hpamdr (Jun 7, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> Understood. So where do I start ? How to choose ? And why is Glenn OTL tube are the only OTL tube that has endless customization in the market ? Like no competitors at all !


Do not rush, you will have plenty of time to discuss discover before you can get your amp.  *The waiting time can be quite long so if you want it in the next two months it should not fit.*

You can go to endless tube combination with some other OTL competitor also. Read the most active/long thread on head-fi tube amp.

The main difference with Glenn OTL is that the amp is handcrafted and custom made, it will fit your own specification. If you decide that you want an ultimate tube rolling amp, Glenn can build it for you. (Same for other Glenn amp type).


----------



## NickT23

Then if that are the case, could you list some of the Glenn OTL competitor to me in terms of endless customization and such ? 

OK, I dont rush, so what are the first step ?


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> The concern here isn't related to the 2.6A heater current, it is related to the driver tube plate current.  The driver stage is loaded with a plate resistor, one resistor per triode section, current flowing through these resistors drop some voltage from the B+.  Because the amp is built to be used with one type of driver at any time (6SN7 vs C3g, for example), a single plate resistor is wired to both sockets, such that it loads one driver plate or the other.  With a three tube configuration, you have increased the number of plates being loaded by a single resistor from one to two, so an increase in plate current, meaning an increase in power dissipation in the resistor.  Increasing the plate current will increase the voltage drop across the plate resistor as well, lowering the plate voltage of the driver tube, altering its bias point.  So, more plate current > more power dissipated in plate resistor > more heat > more chance for resistor explosions.  Someone did blow up one of these resistors at some point using a three tube setup, so Glenn increased the power rating of the resistors to prevent it from happening again, so shouldn't be an issue with newer GOTL builds.


Tx v much for explaining. My amp was completed Sep 2019. It seems so long ago already but still < 1y. I assume mine is OK for this, but @2359glenn please do let me know if I should worry about dual drivers in my amp (assuming you can recall).


----------



## maxpudding

I hope it wasn't a big explosion


----------



## maxpudding

NickT23 said:


> Then if that are the case, could you list some of the Glenn OTL competitor to me in terms of endless customization and such ?
> 
> OK, I dont rush, so what are the first step ?



Not sure if there's such a thing as "competitor" here, you just need to find someone who could build the amp up to your liking, i.e. what tubes you want to roll, how many types of tubes you want to roll, the size of your amp, choice of wood or metal case, etc. Glenn is someone who could do all these, but you need to contact him and ask him how long is the wait time.

I think there are a few amp builders here on headfi, you could ask around as well.


----------



## chrisdrop

One more for today... I have these Mullard 6J5G valves (via a very reputable seller). I can't find a date code on them anywhere. Is that normal? On the bottom was a "5". That is the only marking I could find, beyond what is visible in the picture. Maybe next removal, I will look in a magnifying glass at the inner parts?


----------



## Zachik

Beautiful pair, Chris 
I love the shouldered look for 6J5 tubes...


----------



## NickT23

Well, there is a reason why manufacturers dont built Tube amp and act as authorized dealers for various country. The answer is $$$.

So far in every thread on headfi, what are the custom builders of Tube amp you come across ? Lend me their names and what tube amp they built ?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 7, 2020)

hpamdr said:


> No explosion but just overheat, smell, cook, burn....



It was hyperbole, although a resistor can "pop" when heated to the point of material breakdown, but I guess that isn't an explosion, maybe a miniature one 



hpamdr said:


> My concern was more on having triode in // with very different electric specification. It should result with unequal load on each tube.
> What i'm not sure is how this differential load can affect or damage one of the tube..I hope @2359glenn could be more specific about his amp limitation taking into account rectifier if it have any sense.
> _If i recall correctly, i've been told by Glenn that single triode as driver is more fitting his design...  _



Yes, load sharing will be unequal between the two tubes and they will draw different plate current.  In terms of damage, I think it is more a concern when using paralell output tubes, the reason being that outputs are often biased near maximum plate dissipation.  If the parallel outputs are not well-matched and are "hot" biased, one parallel tube can bear more of the load current due to poor tolerances, even between tubes of identical make and model.  This could result in a bias beyond max plate dissipation, leading to an early death.  Driver tubes are rarely biased this "hot", they are typically biased for linearity, so I wouldn't expect it to be an issue.  Not only that, with a shared plate resistor, the bias of the individual tubes will be more "cold" due to the higher voltage drop across the plate resistor with the higher plate current.

I modeled the driver stage in LTSpice, guessed at a 300V B+.  Plate dissipation for the 6SN7 is cut in half when placed in parallel with triode strapped C3g.  However, dissipation of the 22K plate resistance increases from 600mW to 1.5W, which might explain why someone blew a plate resistor.


----------



## Celty

chrisdrop said:


> _"in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king". _I am at best a one-eyed man in this case . Many know more than me, but I am happy to share my minimal experience. I would not rely on my advice alone (not that you would).
> 
> My signature (at the bottom of this post) has my gear/setup. If you click on the links you can see. My main headphones are ZMF Verite Closed. You can read any comments on it on that thread. There are several happy Verite and Verite closed Glenn OTL amp users.
> 
> ...


chrisdrop - What a great informative post, and your notes and FAQ spreadsheet is really excellent. Thanks much for sharing


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> Tx v much for explaining. My amp was completed Sep 2019. It seems so long ago already but still < 1y. I assume mine is OK for this, but @2359glenn please do let me know if I should worry about dual drivers in my amp (assuming you can recall).



No problem you have the higher power 5 watt plate resistor.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> It was hyperbole, although a resistor can "pop" when heated to the point of material breakdown, but I guess that isn't an explosion, maybe a miniature one
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This only happened with the use of Amtrans AMRG carbon film  resistors.  More boutique parts that are over priced and fail.
I  no longer use them use Kiwame 5 watt less then 1/2 the price and haven't had a failure yet.
If I have a part failure in a amp I will never use that brand of part again.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 7, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> This only happened with the use of Amtrans AMRG carbon film  resistors.  More boutique parts that are over priced and fail.
> I  no longer use them use Kiwame 5 watt less then 1/2 the price and haven't had a failure yet.
> If I have a part failure in a amp I will never use that brand of part again.



Speaking of boutique, I remember when I compared the Kiwame to the Audio Note Tantalum resistors on the OTL driver tube plates, seems so long ago but it was only last November.  Those Audio Note resistors were $20 each (yes, I am crazy).  The Kiwame resistors sounded far, far better to me, did not expect the plate resistor material to have such a big effect on the sound, but there it was.  I use the Kiwames for most everything except grid/gate stoppers.  Also have been using Riken carbon film resistors on driver cathodes, Kiwame 5W on output tube cathodes.  I have some nice Allen Bradley resistors to try too, but haven't gotten around to it.  Since the Riken and Allen Bradley's are discontinued, they are kind of expensive, but still only a few dollars each.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Speaking of boutique, I remember when I compared the Kiwame to the Audio Note Tantalum resistors on the OTL driver tube plates, seems so long ago but it was only last November.  Those Audio Note resistors were $20 each (yes, I am crazy).  The Kiwame resistors sounded far, far better to me, did not expect the plate resistor material to have such a big effect on the sound, but there it was.  I use the Kiwames for most everything except grid/gate stoppers.  Also have been using Riken carbon film resistors on driver cathodes, Kiwame 5W on output tube cathodes.  I have some nice Allen Bradley resistors to try too, but haven't gotten around to it.  Since the Riken and Allen Bradley's are discontinued, they are kind of expensive, but still only a few dollars each.



I had Duelund cast paper in oil capacitors start leaking oil. At $200 each my price this should never happen.
I will no longer use them even if a customer requests them.
Just more over priced boutique garbage they do sound good though.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 7, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> I had Duelund cast paper in oil capacitors start leaking oil. At $200 each my price this should never happen.
> I will no longer use them even if a customer requests them.
> Just more over priced boutique garbage they do sound good though.



A great bang for the buck right now for copper caps are the Miflex KPCU series.  KPCU-01 are axial, KPCU-02 are radial, 600V.  Also came out with a 250V axial version, KPCU-03.  They are pretty chunky, but they sound good!  About 1/3 the price of the Jupiter copper foil, only $35 a piece for 0.47uF from Sonic Craft.  I hope the price lasts, I have these in my 6A5 amp.

http://www.soniccraft.com/product_i...-5312?osCsid=91f66c79e4296776f809475ab9b51707
http://www.soniccraft.com/product_i...uf-600vdc-copper-foil-polypaper-in-oil-p-5291


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> A great bang for the buck right now for copper caps are the Miflex KPCU series.  KPCU-01 are axial, KPCU-02 are radial, 600V.  Also came out with a 250V axial version, KPCU-03.  They are pretty chunky, but they sound good!  About 1/3 the price of the Jupiter copper foil, only $35 a piece for 0.47uF from Sonic Craft.  I hope the price lasts, I have these in my 6A5 amp.
> 
> http://www.soniccraft.com/product_i...-5312?osCsid=91f66c79e4296776f809475ab9b51707
> http://www.soniccraft.com/product_i...uf-600vdc-copper-foil-polypaper-in-oil-p-5291



The only thing I don't like is the twisted pair leads. I think this is were the Duelund started leaking through the twist.
Would much prefer a single thick lead.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> The only thing I don't like is the twisted pair leads. I think this is were the Duelund started leaking through the twist.
> Would much prefer a single thick lead.



I will let you know if they leak, hope not! So far so good.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I will let you know if they leak, hope not! So far so good.



It takes a couple of years before they will start leaking.  Duelund took 2 years before leaking.   Now they discontinued the one with twisted leads.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> It takes a couple of years before they will start leaking.  Duelund took 2 years before leaking.   Now they discontinued the one with twisted leads.



Time will tell.  I am sort of overhauling that amp, going to redo the chassis with better ventilation and remove some voltage dropping resistors, should lower the risk with less heat.  Possibly changing power tubes to R120 IDHT depending on how they sound, adding voltage regulators for the 4V drivers, we will see.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> A great bang for the buck right now for copper caps are the Miflex KPCU series.  KPCU-01 are axial, KPCU-02 are radial, 600V.  Also came out with a 250V axial version, KPCU-03.  They are pretty chunky, but they sound good!  About 1/3 the price of the Jupiter copper foil, only $35 a piece for 0.47uF from Sonic Craft.  I hope the price lasts, I have these in my 6A5 amp.
> 
> http://www.soniccraft.com/product_i...-5312?osCsid=91f66c79e4296776f809475ab9b51707
> http://www.soniccraft.com/product_i...uf-600vdc-copper-foil-polypaper-in-oil-p-5291


I think Mischa recommended Miflex for my amp, but I insisted on the Jupiter. I said something along the lines of "I know the Jupiter sounds good in my DAC, so I'm going to stick with those". Might use the Miflex with the next amp...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> I think Mischa recommended Miflex for my amp, but I insisted on the Jupiter. I said something along the lines of "I know the Jupiter sounds good in my DAC, so I'm going to stick with those". Might use the Miflex with the next amp...



Cannot go wrong with Jupiter!  Miflex is a nice budget-friendly option.  If the build needs big caps, it is often easier to mount radial versions to the chassis with capacitor clamps.  Big axial caps can be mounted with zip ties, but it is a hassle :/


----------



## Velozity

L0rdGwyn said:


> A great bang for the buck right now for copper caps are the Miflex KPCU series.  KPCU-01 are axial, KPCU-02 are radial, 600V.  Also came out with a 250V axial version, KPCU-03.  They are pretty chunky, but they sound good!  About 1/3 the price of the Jupiter copper foil, only $35 a piece for 0.47uF from Sonic Craft.  I hope the price lasts, I have these in my 6A5 amp.
> 
> http://www.soniccraft.com/product_i...-5312?osCsid=91f66c79e4296776f809475ab9b51707
> http://www.soniccraft.com/product_i...uf-600vdc-copper-foil-polypaper-in-oil-p-5291




Keenan, how do these compare to the Jupiter HT beeswax caps?  I need a pair to upgrade the crossovers on my Zu Omen DW speakers.  The Jupiters are on sale for $45 for 1uf, and the Miflex is $77.  I know you know caps well.  Recommendation?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 8, 2020)

Velozity said:


> Keenan, how do these compare to the Jupiter HT beeswax caps?  I need a pair to upgrade the crossovers on my Zu Omen DW speakers.  The Jupiters are on sale for $45 for 1uf, and the Miflex is $77.  I know you know caps well.  Recommendation?



Hey @Velozity , I have heard the Jupiter HT Beeswax in a modified Bottlehead S.E.X. amplifier, which as I remember it sounded great!  But hard to say as it was some time ago, and not in a speaker crossover.  Generally copper foil caps are thought to have a more "natural" sound than aluminum foil, which the Jupiter beeswax are.  What I can do is provide a good resource, perhaps you've already seen it, but this is the most comprehensive comparison of available film capacitors on the web from Humble Homemade Hifi, done in passive speaker crossovers.

Capacitor descriptions: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
Ratings chart: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_Cap-Test-Ratings.pdf

*Miflex KPCU-01:*
"Sound: The Miflex KPCU-01 brings texture to music in a nice organic manner. At times the presentation can be quite tangible. For example on Garry Willis' album Retro it sounds like he has just re-strung his five-string bass. The harmonic overtones of the instrument become more evident making the bass-lines easier to follow. This is not done by artificial emphasis on the top end, it is more "just right". Long term listening sessions are very pleasent which shows that there is nothing artificial about the sound at all - on the contrary. The sound sort of grows on you after a while. Comparing the KPCU-01 to other foil capacitors I found it to be more forward sounding than the both the Duelund CAST Cu and the CAST Cu-Sn and the Jupiter Copper Foil Paper & Wax. In direct comparison the KPCU-01 is a little less transparant in the top end but still rich in tone, smooth and coherent. Although with the Jupiter Copper Foil Paper & Wax music did seem to sound more "complete". A-B switching between the Miflex KPCU-01 and the Duelund RS-Cu revealed that the RS-Cu is more ruler flat neutral of the two but the KPCU-01 did very convincing harmonic overtones. On the other hand, comparing it to the Jantzen Audio Alumen Z-Cap you get a richer tone with more flow and air with the Miflex. Another example: the Mundorf Supreme Classic Silver Gold Oil sounds in direct A-B comparison to have less body and a less natural tonal palette than the Miflex. A very nice capacitor, the KPCU-01.

Verdict: 13+"

*Jupiter Condenser HT Beeswax:*
"Sound: I found the Jupiter HT BeesWax Paper to be very spatious and rich in harmonic texture. They are clear and open but there is never and over-emphasis on any area. Compared to AmpOhm aluminium foil types the Jupiter has more air and they produce a wider image where as the AmpOhm project more front to back. Still not quite as neutral and coherent sounding as the Duelund VSF but at the same high quality level as the top of the range Mundorf's. They have a nice fleshy treble with a rich midrange to match. They act well under all conditions and don't seem to have any preferences. I find them very pleasing to listen to.

Verdict: 11,5"

As much as one person's ears can be trusted, it would appear the Miflex KPCU-01 come out ahead of the Jupiter HT Beeswax, but a hair behind the Jupiter Copper Foil, which at 1uF are very expensive.  I personally would go with copper when practical, which in this case would be the Miflex, but I think you would be very happy with either one, hope that helps!


----------



## heliosphann

What's up everyone! Hope all is well (at least as it can be these days). Finally got my Glenn hooked back up after a long hiatus. Since I don't even intend to sell it, I had it in storage for the last 4-5 months as I was going through all my gear and headphones to sell. Now that most everything is gone (sorry @Zachik, no LAu for you right now) I can get back to listening to my GOTL!!!

Had a strange thing happen today. I was going through all my vintage AKG's I'm planning to sell (look for a big listing in the next few days in the FS forum) and I decided to test some on my GOTL. A good amount of them only have 6.35mm connectors, so I tried to plug them in and the plugs wouldn't go in all the way. Weird. Tried a few other cables and the same result. It's like there's something blocking the jack from fully seating a plug. I very rarely every used the 6.35mm jack (I must have used it before, but I can't say that 100%) as I usually use the 4-pin XLR out.

Any ideas what's causing it? I can't really see anything inside the jack, although it's kind of hard to see inside. Going to try to find a more suitable light.


----------



## Zachik

heliosphann said:


> Now that most everything is gone (sorry @Zachik, no LAu for you right now)


No problem, as long as *I am the one to get it *when you finally sell... 



heliosphann said:


> Any ideas what's causing it?


Belly button lint?   
(I wanted to insert a cartoon picture here, but they were mostly disgusting, so thank me later for not doing it...)

I would suggest poking gently with one of those Crochet Hooks (when the amp is OFF): (some are metal and very very skinny so would fit easily in)


----------



## Xcalibur255

heliosphann said:


> What's up everyone! Hope all is well (at least as it can be these days). Finally got my Glenn hooked back up after a long hiatus. Since I don't even intend to sell it, I had it in storage for the last 4-5 months as I was going through all my gear and headphones to sell. Now that most everything is gone (sorry @Zachik, no LAu for you right now) I can get back to listening to my GOTL!!!
> 
> Had a strange thing happen today. I was going through all my vintage AKG's I'm planning to sell (look for a big listing in the next few days in the FS forum) and I decided to test some on my GOTL. A good amount of them only have 6.35mm connectors, so I tried to plug them in and the plugs wouldn't go in all the way. Weird. Tried a few other cables and the same result. It's like there's something blocking the jack from fully seating a plug. I very rarely every used the 6.35mm jack (I must have used it before, but I can't say that 100%) as I usually use the 4-pin XLR out.
> 
> Any ideas what's causing it? I can't really see anything inside the jack, although it's kind of hard to see inside. Going to try to find a more suitable light.



Some plug styles do this, though I don't know why myself.  Eidolic connectors all seem to do it on my 45 which probably has the same connector as your amp.

Don't force it, you'll probably jam and bend the contacts inside.  The trick is to apply a slight amount of pressure at the right angle and it'll pop in.  You just have to play around with it a bit to find out which direction you need to be "leaning" the plug.


----------



## Bonddam

Almost going to be going through the process of Glenn making me an amp. I spent a lot on tubes for my WA33 now I want to spend less and later decide if more expensive is my route . What are good tubes for rectifier, output, and driver. going to be using this for my Verite and mainly listening to EDM. Trying to go through the thread but I'm getting overwhelmed. I need a base line.


----------



## chrisdrop

Bonddam said:


> Almost going to be going through the process of Glenn making me an amp. I spent a lot on tubes for my WA33 now I want to spend less and later decide if more expensive is my route . What are good tubes for rectifier, output, and driver. going to be using this for my Verite and mainly listening to EDM. Trying to go through the thread but I'm getting overwhelmed. I need a base line.



I am mostly listening with a Verite Closed and also mainly listening to electronic music.  

For good tube combos, you certainly review the thread history. There are many, many, .. rolling options. 

If I were re-speccing my amp today, I might replace the 6SN7 socket with 2x 6J5 sockets. You would miss on some dual-triodes. If you have a load of 6SN7, etc and want to keep using them, then keep that socket. IMO (and supported by others on the thread), anywhere you use a 6SN7 2x 6J5 is better (or at least as good) and cheaper. These are my main inputs. I do use the c3g sockets, mostly with adapters. I guess you could replace the 6x c3g socket w/ 2x 6J5 but I use the c3g sockets.

This link is quite out of date, but one day scrolling through this thread, I captured some tube recommendations and tube pairings in this sheet.

Output-wise, I am on Bendix 6080s and have not found anything better for me. I have not spent the money on something like GEC 6AS7G or WE 421A tubes (which are crazy expensive right now). I have sometimes used a 2nd pair of other-brand 6080 tubes with a pair of Bendix 6080 (2x Bendix does not work well for me and it is hot hot hot). The 6x 6BX7 output didn't really work for me, but I only have 1 set. 6x 6BL7 I like OK, but not compared to the Bendix. 

In closing, if I needed one set to minimise tube cost, with the Glenn OTL, I'd pick the 6080s mentioned and a pair of GEC 6J5s. For me that requires/includes an adapter (from @Deyan) for 2x 6J5 > 6SN7 socket (which would be the default case for most Glenn OTL amps I believe). 

On another note, @Deyan has just completed 2 more pairs of adapters for tubes I have in the cupboard. New rolls soon!

Listening to just now...


----------



## Monsterzero

My fav roll for the VC is:

GEC L63 or Sylvania or KenRad 6/12J5
6x 6BX7s (i have the Bendix 6080s,will have to try them again)
GEC U18/20 rectifier


----------



## NickT23

Monsterzero said:


> My fav roll for the VC is:
> 
> GEC L63 or Sylvania or KenRad 6/12J5
> 6x 6BX7s (i have the Bendix 6080s,will have to try them again)
> GEC U18/20 rectifier


What about the VO ?


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 11, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> What about the VO ?


I literally havent touched the VO once since getting the VC.
I mentioned in my VC video review that the VO was quite challenging(for me)to find a perfect roll. The warmer the tubes I rolled in the deeper the staging became. Any time I tried to add brighter tubes to the equation that holographic stage collapsed on me.

I liked the
Tung Sol 6SN7 BGRP
GZ32
RCA 6AS7G
for optimal depth,but it is much too warm sounding for my tastes.

when I tried to roll in 5998s,Bendix 6080 or GEC 6AS7G or Sylvania drivers or GEC U18/20 or even GZ34s the sound had more detail but nowhere near the depth.


----------



## NickT23

Monsterzero said:


> I literally havent touched the VO once since getting the VC.
> I mentioned in my VC video review that the VO was quite challenging(for me)to find a perfect roll. The warmer the tubes I rolled in the deeper the staging became. Any time I tried to add brighter tubes to the equation that holographic stage collapsed on me.
> 
> I liked the
> ...


So with VC for brighter tubes, the holographic stage enhance or collapsed or retained ? What if warmer the tubes you rolled on the VC, does the stage became deeper ?

Does not seems you share much love for the VO than the VC.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 11, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> So with VC for brighter tubes, the holographic stage enhance or collapsed or retained ? What if warmer the tubes you rolled on the VC, does the stage became deeper ?
> 
> Does not seems you share much love for the VO than the VC.


The staging on the VC isnt as exaggerated as it on the VO so I didnt find myself chasing that ultra deep sound. Its also worth mentioning that warmer tubes with the VC gives it too much of a thick sound and too much decay for my tastes.
I like the VC to sound fast,tight and snappy and Im getting that(and much more) with the roll I listed above.

The VO used to be favorite headphone prior to the VC,so the fact that i dont listen to the VO anymore isnt really a knock on the VO,rather a testament as to just how great the VC is.
Your mileage may vary and all that jazz.


----------



## NickT23

So I guess you keep tube rolling for different preference between the VO and VC it seems. 

A testament ? Its more like the VO being replaced. Are there any genre and some sonic characteristics you may prefer the VO on the glenntube than the VC ?


----------



## NickT23

Monsterzero said:


> The staging on the VC isnt as exaggerated as it on the VO so I didnt find myself chasing that ultra deep sound. Its also worth mentioning that warmer tubes with the VC gives it too much of a thick sound and too much decay for my tastes.
> I like the VC to sound fast,tight and snappy and Im getting that(and much more) with the roll I listed above.
> 
> The VO used to be favorite headphone prior to the VC,so the fact that i dont listen to the VO anymore isnt really a knock on the VO,rather a testament as to just how great the VC is.
> Your mileage may vary and all that jazz.


Hi this is a very personal impression for you. Are there anyway you could tube roll the VO to the point you prefer the VO than the VC in certain particular tracks/genre in general ? Just curious.


----------



## Bonddam

Monsterzero said:


> The staging on the VC isnt as exaggerated as it on the VO so I didnt find myself chasing that ultra deep sound. Its also worth mentioning that warmer tubes with the VC gives it too much of a thick sound and too much decay for my tastes.
> I like the VC to sound fast,tight and snappy and Im getting that(and much more) with the roll I listed above.
> 
> The VO used to be favorite headphone prior to the VC,so the fact that i dont listen to the VO anymore isnt really a knock on the VO,rather a testament as to just how great the VC is.
> Your mileage may vary and all that jazz.


So could you tell me which tube is which? I’m not familiar with which is rectifier, output and driver. I’d like to purchase those when I get a GOTL.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 11, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> Hi this is a very personal impression for you. Are there anyway you could tube roll the VO to the point you prefer the VO than the VC in certain particular tracks/genre in general ? Just curious.



No. the VC is a perfect headphone for me. I have yet to listen to any genre,or song for that matter and think that it could sound better on another headphone. It simply checks all of the boxes for me.

The VO on the other hand wasnt fantastic for metal IMO. The mids were too recessed for me to get the aggressive feeling that metal often portrays.


Bonddam said:


> So could you tell me which tube is which? I’m not familiar with which is rectifier, output and driver. I’d like to purchase those when I get a GOTL.



Rectifiers
VO=GZ32
VC=GEC U18/20(adapter needed) or GEC U52. I havent heard the WE 422a.

Drivers
VO=Tung Sol 6sn7GT black glass /round plate
VC=sylvania,GEC,KenRad 6/12j5s (adapter needed). Goes in SN7 slot,or you can have Glenn replace the SN7 socket with 6J5 sockets.

Power tubes
VO=RCA 6AS7g
VC= GE 6BX7

To be clear here,these are simply _*my favorite rolls*_. The rest of the chain,such as DAC,source,interconnects and personal preferences each play a large part in how things will sound in _*your set-up.*_

I would read further in this thread or ask other Glenn owners what they each prefer with their ZMF headphones. There are quite a few of us in the ZMF+Glenn club,including Glenn and Zach themselves.


----------



## Bonddam

Monsterzero said:


> No. the VC is a perfect headphone for me. I have yet to listen to any genre,or song for that matter and think that it could sound better on another headphone. It simply checks all of the boxes for me.
> 
> The VO on the other hand wasnt fantastic for metal IMO. The mids were too recessed for me to get the aggressive feeling that metal often portrays.
> 
> ...


It’s going to be a long time till I get a Glenn. So far I got Glenn’s attention that he will be making one. Does Glenn walk you through what you should get? Because I don’t know anything.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 11, 2020)

Bonddam said:


> It’s going to be a long time till I get a Glenn. So far I got Glenn’s attention that he will be making one. Does Glenn walk you through what you should get? Because I don’t know anything.


I will paste a private message I received from a Glenn owner when I asked him what my build should be before I ordered mine. The only thing I would change is going for the 6/12j5 sockets instead of the 6SN7 socket.



*"I think I have the basic transformer, but I understand the Lundahl is a pretty significant upgrade. There are probably a couple of other people who have heard both. I think it takes a while to get the other transformer as well, which may or may not delay your build. I think most anyone who has heard both will recommend the transformer upgrade. You may want to do additional research.

The standard input driver tube is a 6SN7, which is 6.3V. You can roll pretty much any 6.3V driver in there with the right adapter. For $100, Glenn can install a switch that will allow you to us 12.6V and 25.2V tubes there as well. The advantage to this is that 12.6V and 25.2V tubes are CHEAP. You can get a 12SN7 that is every bit as good as the 6SN7 version for like $5 instead of $50 or $8 instead of $80. Plus you have flexibility with some other types of tubes that don’t have a 6V equivalent. I’d definitely recommend this mod, as you’ll see ROI immediately on it.

Unless you have some cherry 5998 tubes sitting around, you can skip that mod. 5998s are way overpriced and you can already roll plenty of output tubes. 6336s are fun, but 5998s and 6336s will still work without the switch.

I’d skip the gold point stepped attenuator, personally. The stock one sounds really good. The gold point does have more steps, so you can get more specific with volume, but I don’t have any trouble with the stock one, personally.

The six output socket mod is a good one. If you look at UntilThen’s amp, that’s what he has. You can also roll 4 or 6 6BL7/6BX7 tubes with adaptors you can purchase on eBay. You might as well have them installed in the amp, IMO. 6BL7’s are like $15-$20 apiece, so you can probably roll all 6 for $100, if that. I have a quad of Sylvania 6BL7s I got for $80 and I think they sound even better than my $330 pair of GEC 6080s. This is especially true for 300 ohm headphones like the Atticus."*

Hope this helps


----------



## Bonddam

Monsterzero said:


> I will paste a private message I received from a Glenn owner when I asked him what my build should be before I ordered mine. The only thing I would change is going for the 6/12j5 sockets instead of the 6SN7 socket.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That makes more sense then my first read through the thread. Currently tubes on hand are 2A3 have 6 total power tubes
6c45 4 total same model driver tube 
5u3c 1 rectifier tube
These are all expensive except the 6c45 problem with this tube only a few companies make them.
None are NOS tubes.
I’ll read the thread again and see if it makes more sense the 2nd time.
Thank you for giving me a better understanding.


----------



## Monsterzero

Bonddam said:


> That makes more sense then my first read through the thread. Currently tubes on hand are 2A3 have 6 total power tubes
> 6c45 4 total same model driver tube
> 5u3c 1 rectifier tube
> These are all expensive except the 6c45 problem with this tube only a few companies make them.
> ...


Now would be a good time me thinks to share @Zachik GOTL tube compatibility spread sheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHcgqSa16WqaAjwUYoE3eZlSfmaSluQFVYqY1pry-NI/edit#gid=0


----------



## Bonddam

That’s a lot of tubes. I might already have a rectifier on hand. The 5uc3 works in 5u4g amp as it does on my Woo amp.


----------



## mordy

Nice tube glow and great sound - a Mazda 6N7G made for the French Air Force in 1948:




The 6N7G tubes have great synergy with EL11 and Bendix 6080.


----------



## hpamdr (Jun 12, 2020)

Bonddam said:


> That makes more sense then my first read through the thread. Currently tubes on hand are 2A3 have 6 total power tubes


 2A3 are  directly heated triode power tube. It need high voltage (400V) to run correctly, output impedance is more suitable with output transformer than OTL.
To me, it is *Not  compatible with standard GOTL* using indirectly heated triode 6BX7, 6AS7G, 6080 and lower voltage. Glenn should probably build an amp for you but the design will be probably more like a 300B than an OTL.


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> Nice tube glow and great sound - a Mazda 6N7G made for the French Air Force in 1948:
> 
> The 6N7G tubes have great synergy with EL11 and Bendix 6080.


Great picture Mordy. 
This is an unplugged Visseaux 6N7-GT from 1953 (French Army stock). You should find some similarities  The tube was built in Lyon (69009 Rhône 22 rue Berjon  ) in France. 
The plant was the property of  Sylvania Lighting International France (S.L.I. France) until 2005 and finally destroyed to become Greenopolis).
But for the one interested, a collection is still visible in Ampere museum


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 12, 2020)

Bonddam said:


> Currently tubes on hand are 2A3 have 6 total power tubes
> 6c45 4 total same model driver tube
> 5u3c 1 rectifier tube



Like @hpamdr said, the 2A3 isn't suitable for use in an OTL amplifier (unless you get into exotic topologies).  The internal resistance is too high - in a transformer coupled amplifier, like a single-ended triode (SET) or class A push pull (like your WA33), the resistance of the output tube is stepped down by an output transformer, which will provide enough current drive and appropriate damping factor for headphones (or speakers).

In an OTL, there obviously is no output transformer  so this necessitates using tubes that have a lower internal resistance, such as 6AS7G, 6080, 5998, 6BX7, 6BL7, etc. OTL designs still _typically_ have a high output impedance, which is why many pair them with high impedance headphones.  The damping factor, which is the ratio of the load impedance (headphone or speaker) to the amplifier output impedance, will determine the amplifier's ability to abruptly start/stop/control the motion of the driver.  Too low a damping factor, and you will get a mushy, poorly-defined bass and uneven frequency response.  For example, an OTL amplifier with an output impedance of 100ohm paired with a 300ohm headphone will have a damping factor of 300ohm/100ohm = 3, this is okay.  The same amplifier paired with a 32ohm headphone would give you a damping factor of 32ohm/100ohm = 0.32, which is not optimal and the sound will suffer.  You will often see a damping factor of 8 or higher listed as the minimum, but you can get great sound with lower damping factors of 2-4, which is often the case with SET amplifers paired with speakers or OTL amplifiers paired with high-impedance headphones, like Beyerdynamics, 300ohm Sennheisers, or dynamic ZMFs.  SET amplifiers typically have output impedances much lower than OTLs, in the range of 2-3ohms (assuming speaker output transformers are used), so SET amplifiers are better paired with low impedance headphones as they can provide a more optimal damping factor, something to keep in mind depending on the headphones you own.

In a SET design, a cathode biased 2A3 will take around 295V plus whatever voltage is dropped across the output transformer primary winding, so perhaps 315V B+, less if using fixed bias, maybe around 270V.  If you wanted to use your 2A3 tubes in a custom amplifier, you could ask Glenn if he will build you a 2A3 transformer coupled amplifier instead of an OTL.  It will be more expensive, the output transformers for a SET design are typically the most expensive component (at least if you are doing it DIY, probably the chassis is more expensive for commercial amplifiers).  You would then have a class A push pull amp (WA33) and a SET amp that are both compatible with 2A3.  Another advantage of a SET 2A3 design is you could use it to drive some sensitive speakers.

Anyway, happy to explain tube stuff to the best of my ability if you are interested, I am off of work for the weekend


----------



## Bonddam

L0rdGwyn said:


> Like @hpamdr said, the 2A3 isn't suitable for use in an OTL amplifier (unless you get into exotic topologies).  The internal resistance is too high - in a transformer coupled amplifier, like a single-ended triode (SET) or class A push pull (like your WA33), the resistance of the output tube is stepped down by an output transformer, which will provide enough current drive and appropriate damping factor for headphones (or speakers).
> 
> In an OTL, there obviously is no output transformer  so this necessitates using tubes that have a lower internal resistance, such as 6AS7G, 6080, 5998, 6BX7, 6BL7, etc. OTL designs still _typically_ have a high output impedance, which is why many pair them with high impedance headphones.  The damping factor, which is the ratio of the load impedance (headphone or speaker) to the amplifier output impedance, will determine the amplifier's ability to abruptly start/stop/control the motion of the driver.  Too low a damping factor, and you will get a mushy, poorly-defined bass and uneven frequency response.  For example, an OTL amplifier with an output impedance of 100ohm paired with a 300ohm headhpone will have a damping factor of 300ohm/100ohm = 3, this is okay.  The same amplifier paired with a 32ohm headphone would give you a damping factor of 32ohm/100ohm = 0.32, which is not optimal and the sound will suffer.  You will often see a damping factor of 8 or higher listed as the minimum, but you can get great sound with lower damping factors of 2-4, which is often the case with SET amplifers paired with speakers or OTL amplifiers paired with high-impedance headphones, like Beyerdynamics, 300ohm Sennheisers, or dynamic ZMFs.  SET amplifiers typically have output impedances much lower than OTLs, in the ranger of 2-5ohms (assuming speaker output transformers are used), so SET amplifiers are better paired with low impedance headphones as they can provide a more optimal damping factor, something to keep in mind depending on the headphones you own.
> 
> ...


Very good explanation much appreciated. I’m going to stick with the norm. Basically this will be my fun amp. I have the WA33 where I want it. The headphone for the GOTL is the Verite open. I want to start easy just get drop in tubes that don’t need adapters or voltage change(I think I read in this thread about 6 and 12 volt switch.).


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Bonddam said:


> Very good explanation much appreciated. I’m going to stick with the norm. Basically this will be my fun amp. I have the WA33 where I want it. The headphone for the GOTL is the Verite open. I want to start easy just get drop in tubes that don’t need adapters or voltage change(I think I read in this thread about 6 and 12 volt switch.).



Very good!  OTL is a great choice for dynamic ZMFs  you can always get drop-in tubes in the beginning and expand later if you please.  IMO, the fun of the OTL is the flexibility to experiment.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

Bonddam said:


> Very good explanation much appreciated. I’m going to stick with the norm. Basically this will be my fun amp. I have the WA33 where I want it. The headphone for the GOTL is the Verite open. I want to start easy just get drop in tubes that don’t need adapters or voltage change(I think I read in this thread about 6 and 12 volt switch.).



Keep us updated on what your final build is! I'm hoping to get my own Glenn OTL build eventually. I've got a used base model GOTL, with only two power tube sockets and an older transformer with some background hum. I think the 6x power tube and Lundahl transformer upgrades would be pretty awesome. Even still, my base model GOTL sounds incredibly good with my Verite Open. I'm particularly impressed with how wide the soundstage is with the GOTL. I had actually just bought a ZMF Pendant and an Ampsandsound Kenzie Encore, and those are both already gathering dust, despite being twice as expensive...anyone is free to message me if interested in the Pendant or Kenzie Encore!


----------



## Bonddam

Yes I sold my Pendant to fund the WA33. But I found the Verite and Pendant to be magic. So Three power tubes per channel what kind of power we talking on the Glenn?


----------



## Karnicopia

I'm listening to the GEC 6j5 and Cetron 6336a with the Verite Closed and I'm really enjoying it. I didn't like these as much with the Verite Open because I thought it collapsed the soundstage too much but it doesn't seem to do that with the closed and I wonder if that is because the closed depend more on cup reflections to create the soundstage (Auteur pads) vs the open that have more direct sound (Verite pads). I'm not sure but the result is that the closed still keep the soundstage with these and the dynamics and impact of the Cetron enhance a lot of what I like with the closed so it's sounding really nice so far.


----------



## chrisdrop

Karnicopia said:


> I'm listening to the GEC 6j5 and Cetron 6336a with the Verite Closed and I'm really enjoying it. I didn't like these as much with the Verite Open because I thought it collapsed the soundstage too much but it doesn't seem to do that with the closed and I wonder if that is because the closed depend more on cup reflections to create the soundstage (Auteur pads) vs the open that have more direct sound (Verite pads). I'm not sure but the result is that the closed still keep the soundstage with these and the dynamics and impact of the Cetron enhance a lot of what I like with the closed so it's sounding really nice so far.



Nice tubes. 
Nice headphones. 
Nice song.


----------



## Karnicopia (Jun 14, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> Nice tubes.
> Nice headphones.
> Nice song.


That's what it felt like just one of those moments where everything is working together. These just seem really snappy dynamic and the sound has a good weight to it. The combination of weight and speed is I think what is really getting me it seems effortless and powerful and I think enhance the strengths of the headphone. They run pretty hot and take a while to warm up but I really like the sound of them and they may be my favorite power tubes with the closed but I probably need more time with them.

Maybe I shouldn't be running them this way but I was running 4 of them because they were listed as 5998 equivalents and the fans seem to keep control of the temp. They sound amazing that way so I may just run them like this unless I'd blow up the amp or something (I think the 6336b are the ones I'd have to be careful about only putting 1 pair in but I maybe should have asked about weather or not that applies to the 6336a as well). I did try running 2 of them and I think I do prefer the sound with 4 which I haven't really noticed as much with other power tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

Karnicopia said:


> That's what it felt like just one of those moments where everything is working together. These just seem really snappy dynamic and the sound has a good weight to it. The combination of weight and speed is I think what is really getting me it seems effortless and powerful and I think enhance the strengths of the headphone. They run pretty hot and take a while to warm up but I really like the sound of them and they may be my favorite power tubes with the closed but I probably need more time with them.
> 
> Maybe I shouldn't be running them this way but I was running 4 of them because they were listed as 5998 equivalents and the fans seem to keep control of the temp. They sound amazing that way so I may just run them like this unless I'd blow up the amp or something (I think the 6336b are the ones I'd have to be careful about only putting 1 pair in but I maybe should have asked about weather or not that applies to the 6336a as well). I did try running 2 of them and I think I do prefer the sound with 4 which I haven't really noticed as much with other power tubes.



I would not run four of the 6336 A/B tubes....that would require 20 amps
If you are talking about the graphite plated 6336 tubes.


----------



## Karnicopia (Jun 14, 2020)

whirlwind said:


> I would not run four of the 6336 A/B tubes....that would require 20 amps
> If you are talking about the graphite plated 6336 tubes.


Yeah they are the graphite plated I'll take 2 out I think I still like it will 2 but those 4 really slammed lol. It ran hot but the fans seemed to keep control of things and it didn't seem to cause any issues but I definitely don't want to run it like that if the 6336a is similar to the b. I guess I should have asked on that one but the description made it sound like a 5998 equivalent so I tried it out. I'll definitely check first next time!


----------



## mordy

Each 6336 is the equivalent of two 5998. 20A is above the 13A rating for the GOTL. The only way to do this safely is to run two 6336 (or all four) off an external power supply with the right capacity.


----------



## Karnicopia (Jun 14, 2020)

Thanks I'll just run 2 of them I think I still really like the sound of that and I had no clue these were the same as the b power wise I thought the 6336a were equivalent to a 5998 and not as powerful as the b but thanks for letting me know. I'll definitely check first before making an assumption they had 5998 listed in the description right after 6336a so that's what threw me is I thought they were equivalent but I definitely should have double checked with you all first.

Update: I have been listening with 2 for a while and I do still really love the sound of these. I think it may have a bit less weight after (I don't think it's much but I feel like I do notice it on a couple songs) but I'll just consider that the forbidden tube roll and try not to ever think about it again. I think at least the fans did a good job with it they had the 4 6336a stable at 93 degrees and the Bendix 6080 usually run around 90 and now 2 6336a are running at 88 which is where the Tung Sol 5998 usually run (6336 may end up at 90 too the Bendix take a while to get there). The 2 6336 still seem really dynamic punchy and fast so I'm still really digging the sound out of them and things still sound great so hopefully I didn't melt anything down. Also just thanks everyone for letting me know I appreciate it and I'll try and check here before doing anything crazy.


----------



## Zachik

This evening, trying EL11 tubes as drivers, with adapter from @Deyan to fit them in EL3N sockets.
Tried only with speakers (will try tomorrow with headphones to confirm) - very very quiet. Nice.  
Sound signature, as expected, pretty close to EL3N tubes.

Quick question:
One of the EL11 tubes has very loose glass. I vaguely remember some discussion about using super glue / crazy glue to attach the glass to the base.
Would any super glue do?  Looking at 2 random ones (on Amazon) - long list of materials but glass not one of them!
So, any recommendations for a specific one?  And someone with personal experience - how to you apply properly? That stuff dries up very quickly, and I do not want it to start drying before I am done applying... Trying to learn from someone else's experience (or mistakes ).


----------



## Deyan

Zachik said:


> This evening, trying EL11 tubes as drivers, with adapter from @Deyan to fit them in EL3N sockets.
> Tried only with speakers (will try tomorrow with headphones to confirm) - very very quiet. Nice.
> Sound signature, as expected, pretty close to EL3N tubes.
> 
> ...



If possible try using some gasket maker. Cyanoacrylate tends to be somewhat conductive. And if the tube has been used the bakelite has formed microscopic cracks for the glue to get in. 
All that said I never had a problem with using it but that's what the "Grey beard's" say around here.


----------



## audiofest2018

Zachik said:


> This evening, trying EL11 tubes as drivers, with adapter from @Deyan to fit them in EL3N sockets.
> Tried only with speakers (will try tomorrow with headphones to confirm) - very very quiet. Nice.
> Sound signature, as expected, pretty close to EL3N tubes.
> 
> ...




I have the similar problem for couple of my tubes. I found this posted by @L0rdGwyn

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/post-15032399

and bought one from Amazon.  They seem to be working well and solve my loose glass issue.  It also hold up well at high temperature.  

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C32ME6G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> This evening, trying EL11 tubes as drivers, with adapter from @Deyan to fit them in EL3N sockets.
> Tried only with speakers (will try tomorrow with headphones to confirm) - very very quiet. Nice.
> Sound signature, as expected, pretty close to EL3N tubes.
> 
> ...


You can see my recommendation for using brush on crazy glue in the first link above. I brush into the space between the tube and glass and afterwards I hold it in place for one minute; then let it dry for a day. Never had any problems.
For some reason the glue in many old European tubes does not hold as well as their old US counterparts. It is a good idea to always glue the bases and anode posts when receiving an old European tube - it could save you a lot of trouble later, especially if the anode post comes off. It only takes a few seconds to do.


----------



## chrisdrop

chrisdrop said:


> Glenn is tricky - it is hard to put tubes in the amp that don't sound pretty darn good. Here is a dual triode, making a rare appearance in my amp. This RCA 6N7G sounds pretty good out of the box and I do like the look of it. Below is also the 1st adapter I have gotten via xulingmrs. It came quickly from China in 1 week, which surprised me.
> 
> The date code is "S2". According to this, it seems plausible that it is March 1957 or 1942. I guess it is overly optimistic to expect it to be '42.
> 
> Happy listening all.


Put back this 6N7G today. I think it may be the best dual triode I have enjoyed in my amp. Whoever recommended the 6N7 family - thanks!


----------



## cddc (Oct 16, 2020)

nvm


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Put back this 6N7G today. I think it may be the best dual triode I have enjoyed in my amp. Whoever recommended the 6N7 family - thanks!


With the tubes I am using now (EL11 and Bendix 6080) the pairing with 6N7G is great. Just got a 1944 Tung Sol 6N7GT/T (straight glass 6N7G) and it sounds excellent. 
Usually such old tubes have corrosion, and the boxes are gone. This sample looked almost like it just came out from the production line. (Thanks to attmci who pointed me to this tube).




The MR designation means Manufactuer's Replacement. During WW2 tubes were rationed for civilian use, and most went to the military. MR was for civilian use and was in effect from 1942-45.


----------



## mordy

cddc said:


> Hey guys, need to confirm the Bogey measurement for 6SN7 on TV-7 series testers. We all know that Bogey value for 6SN7 is 100% = 2600gm.
> 
> Now, TV-7 series testers (be it TV-7/U or TV-7A/U, or TV-7B/U, or TV-7D/U) all have a scale from 0 to 120 on their meters. One would naturally think 100 from TV-7 would be close to 100%, 120 would be beyond Bogey and super good.
> 
> ...


Hi cddc,
Please read post # 4743 on this page - it may answer at least part of your question:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-317#post-15680279


----------



## cddc (Oct 16, 2020)

nvm


----------



## mordy

Can you spot where this tube was made?



This is what the seller says: National Electronics 6N7GT Electron Tube Made in USA 
I am sure you all know that USSR is the same as the US - right?
_Union of Soviet Socialist Republics_ (_USSR_)


----------



## leftside

chrisdrop said:


> Put back this 6N7G today. I think it may be the best dual triode I have enjoyed in my amp. Whoever recommended the 6N7 family - thanks!


Big bold and powerful!

I purchased these two Fivre 6N7G separately a couple of years apart from different sellers. What's the chance they would have the same date codes? Highly unlikely I think! Leads me to believe Fivre simply put the same date codes on a bunch of tubes from the same year. Perhaps a packaging date code rather than manufacturing date code.


----------



## mordy

September 9, 1942. Those big nice looking labels were tax exemption labels for vacuum tubes. Are there other dates on the tubes in addition to the big labels?


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> September 9, 1942. Those big nice looking labels were tax exemption labels for vacuum tubes. Are there other dates on the tubes in addition to the big labels?


That's all there is...


----------



## Zachik

Deyan said:


> If possible try using some gasket maker. Cyanoacrylate tends to be somewhat conductive. And if the tube has been used the bakelite has formed microscopic cracks for the glue to get in.
> All that said I never had a problem with using it but that's what the "Grey beard's" say around here.


On this specific thread, I suspect some members are white beards, and still nobody got into the science (or pseudo-science) of the glue's conductivity... interesting...
@Deyan is there a specific glue product by a gasket maker that you would recommend? (link would be great)



audiofest2018 said:


> I have the similar problem for couple of my tubes. I found this posted by @L0rdGwyn
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/post-15032399
> 
> ...


Thanks. Interestingly, searching for "glass" on the amazon product page yields no results. Seems like this glue was not intended for glass (but obviously works great, as you attest from personal experience...)



mordy said:


> You can see my recommendation for using brush on crazy glue in the first link above. I brush into the space between the tube and glass and afterwards I hold it in place for one minute; then let it dry for a day. Never had any problems.
> For some reason the glue in many old European tubes does not hold as well as their old US counterparts. It is a good idea to always glue the bases and anode posts when receiving an old European tube - it could save you a lot of trouble later, especially if the anode post comes off. It only takes a few seconds to do.


Thanks @mordy - I do like the super thin nozzle that comes with the glue @audiofest2018 recommended. Trying to get the glue in the gap between glass and base without smearing any on the glass itself. I am suspecting it would be challenging doing so with the brush (but could be wrong).


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> On this specific thread, I suspect some members are white beards, and still nobody got into the science (or pseudo-science) of the glue's conductivity... interesting...
> @Deyan is there a specific glue product by a gasket maker that you would recommend? (link would be great)
> 
> 
> ...


The brush is quite small and the bristles easily reach into the space between the socket and the glass. But you are right, a little bit of residue can be seen on the
glass and socket at times- I don't find it objectionable. Gluing down the anode tip there is always residue seen.
I let the glue dry with the tube standing upright and have not had any problems with conductivity.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> The brush is quite small and the bristles easily reach into the space between the socket and the glass. But you are right, a little bit of residue can be seen on the
> glass and socket at times- I don't find it objectionable. Gluing down the anode tip there is always residue seen.
> I let the glue dry with the tube standing upright and have not had any problems with conductivity.


I also use this glue/approach. Any excess can be wiped off with isopropyl alcohol.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 16, 2020)

I wonder if the moderators could arrange an FAQ sticky for the thread where answers to various questions could be compiled.  The questions that come up regularly are:

1) how to contact Glenn
2) tube compatibility
3) differences between OTL, EL3N, and 300B amps
4) reattaching tube bases
5) dealing with noisy tubes
6) "safe" startup sequence with questionable tubes in OTL
7) tube test results on eBay
8) where/how to get tube adapters

I'm sure there are many others, those are just the ones that immediately come to mind.  Could include links to posts where these questions have been answered.  Are stickies a thing on Head-Fi?


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I wonder if the moderators could arrange an FAQ sticky for the thread where answers to various questions could be compiled.  The questions that come up regularly are:
> 
> 1) how to contact Glenn
> 2) tube compatibility
> ...


Maybe this is a solution: I remember that on the original Elise thread (Feliks Audio) the threadstarter (hypnos one?) added a summary. By clicking on the first post you could easily access it.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I wonder if the moderators could arrange an FAQ sticky for the thread where answers to various questions could be compiled.  The questions that come up regularly are:
> 
> 1) how to contact Glenn
> 2) tube compatibility
> ...



Summoning @moderators !  If you would be so kind, what would be the best way to approach this idea?  Much appreciated.


----------



## mordy

Trolling through my box of 6N7G tubes - pulled out an old Sylvania 6N7G. As I remember it it was microphonic and I tried to correct it with a little plastic surgery (silicone tape around the lower portion of the bulb).
The tube has the following markings:  B
                                                             D       and     7
                                                             R                  D
The brand name Sylvania is hot stamped into the base - not printed or silk screened.
Although Sylvania is a major tube manufacturer there is great confusion and lack of knowledge what the codes mean, unless it say 59-13 (13th week of 1959 etc). Cannot find a reference to what B D R means - probably a factory production code.
7 D? My guess is April, 1937. That would make it one of the oldest tubes I have.
Anyhow, plugged it in - a little bit of residual hum. Kept on tilting the tube this way and that way and it went away. The sound was good, but not spectacular.
Could not believe it, but after six hours suddenly everything snapped into focus and now it sounds really good! 
I bought this tube together with the Arcturus from some old radio shop in the south - the Arcturus is probably from the late 30s as well.
If somebody has information what the letters and numbers mean, please let know.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Summoning @moderators !  If you would be so kind, what would be the best way to approach this idea?  Much appreciated.


For what it's worth, *I volunteer to be the maintainer of the FAQ*. Either top of this thread (best option IMHO), or a separate new thread (but then we'll have to keep linking and send people to that separate thread...).
@AxelCloris / @joe - can you please help us?


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Maybe this is a solution: I remember that on the original Elise thread (Feliks Audio) the threadstarter (hypnos one?) added a summary. By clicking on the first post you could easily access it.



SilentOne is no longer an active participant and he owns the first post, but a moderator could probably edit it or insert a post above it.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> SilentOne is no longer an active participant and he owns the first post, but a moderator could probably edit it or insert a post above it.



Looks like he is finally living up to his name   

Sorry, couldn't help myself.  We'll have to see what the mods have to say.


----------



## Deyan

@Zachik the I use is called "Victor Reinz" but I buy it from the hardware store, not online.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jun 18, 2020)

Xcalibur255 said:


> SilentOne is no longer an active participant and he owns the first post, but a moderator could probably edit it or insert a post above it.


Looks like @Silent One is still around, just changed course a bit (< link). Silent One if you see this notification, a few members from this post wanted to work out with you a modified first intro post.


L0rdGwyn said:


> I wonder if the moderators could arrange an FAQ sticky for the thread where answers to various questions could be compiled.  The questions that come up regularly are:
> 
> 1) how to contact Glenn
> 2) tube compatibility
> ...


I would also add to that projected wait times (which will hopefully decrease as soon as Glenn is settled in to his new arrangement), where to source tubes, and customization options such as Lundahl transfo., voltage / bias switches, hexfred diode vs. rectifier options, Jupiter coupling caps, special resistors, speaker output option, Gold Point volume knob vs. stepped attenuator, etc. This will also help on the ordering process with @2359glenn and maybe he would have some input on what to add also.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

mordy said:


> With the tubes I am using now (EL11 and Bendix 6080) the pairing with 6N7G is great.



Had almost forgotten I have EL11 sitting on the shelf. Put them in after seeing your post  it's been so long, I don't remember what they sound like on their own or in a triple driver setup. Here goes.....


----------



## chrisdrop

UsoppNoKami said:


> Had almost forgotten I have EL11 sitting on the shelf. Put them in after seeing your post  it's been so long, I don't remember what they sound like on their own or in a triple driver setup. Here goes.....


I have a nice pair of EL11s and new adapters due from Deyan any day now to give them a go. Wating to join @mordy in Bendix+6N7G+EL11s.


----------



## mordy (Jun 18, 2020)

UsoppNoKami said:


> Had almost forgotten I have EL11 sitting on the shelf. Put them in after seeing your post  it's been so long, I don't remember what they sound like on their own or in a triple driver setup. Here goes.....


How does it sound? I find that almost all 6N7G or GT sound great with this combination.
The GOTL sings with these tubes playing Sing Sing Sing with Benny Goodman.

Plenty of percussion - crank up the volume!


----------



## chrisdrop

Been listening to these the past day or so. I've started cycling my 6J5 and related tubes here. That said, Glenn's amps make 'em all sound pretty good!



Not bad at all. They are 1960s tubes and they sound great from almost the first hour. They were not too expensive either. 

Enjoying a very layered spacious song at the moment:


----------



## chrisdrop

chrisdrop said:


> Been listening to these the past day or so. I've started cycling my 6J5 and related tubes here. That said, Glenn's amps make 'em all sound pretty good!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In other news. I tried to be bold and swap out my output tubes today. I haven't done that for months. 6x 6BL7s today. They are very pretty. They are also from 1983 I believe - very ver modern in tube-land. It didn't last - 1h and back to the Bendix! I think we are in a committed relationship. 

This is an older pic of the 6BL7s. I tried to take a better one today, but I failed there too!


----------



## Karnicopia

I also came back to the Bendix, I had 2 Cetron 3663's going for a while then switched to the Tung Sol 5998 and then this morning went back to the Bendix 6080 and I do think those just have the right balance for me. I haven't had them in for a while but it just instantly sounded good and comfortable and I guess right for me. I'll keep rotating them because I think I was really hearing those Cetron open up with time so I do want to get some good hours on all of them but the Bendix are really tough to beat they just seem to do everything well. I think what I'm really enjoying is they have a really deep and dynamic sound and quick snappy transients really pop. I listen to a lot of 4 tet and it's just sounding amazing with these.


----------



## cddc (Oct 16, 2020)

nvm


----------



## mordy

Hi cddc et al,
I would like to add another comment about measurements. Several people that I respect have told me that the measurements in seller's ads cannot be relied on (the exceptions will be described shortly) and that they are basically meaningless.
The reason is that most testers are decades old and have not been refurbished and recalibrated - the caps deteriorate over time and should be replaced and the testers must be recalibrated periodically. One person who rebuilds testers told me that not one of them that he rebuilt was calibrated correctly.
The only measurements that have validity are if the seller states when his tester was refurbished and recalibrated and preferably by whom. 
Something to think about....
All that being said, I have had good luck buying tubes on eBay with few duds, but I assume like all tube rollers, there are carcasses lying here and there of shorted out amps and headphone drivers......
Joke: "That's what I love about vacuum tube amplifiers - the inconvenience and the expense..."


----------



## cddc

Hi mordy, I agree with you that tube testers need calibration from time to time. But it's more or less of an accuracy issue. Say, a good calibrated tester will give you a 5% tolerance, an out-of-tune tester will give you a 15% tolerance. But we still need the measurements from testers in order to get an estimate of tube conditions. No one can hear the condition of a tube in their gears by ears.


----------



## leftside

9 9 42 again! These are only about $700 more than the pair I paid for. Admittedly, I only have one of the original boxes tho...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6n7-Fivr...-ecc31-6sn7-preamp-vintage-tubes/254626183017


----------



## UsoppNoKami

mordy said:


> How does it sound? I find that almost all 6N7G or GT sound great with this combination.
> The GOTL sings with these tubes playing Sing Sing Sing with Benny Goodman.
> 
> Plenty of percussion - crank up the volume!




I tried the combo pictured for a few hours, sounded fine. But pulled the 6J5 out since then, don't want to load the transformer so much (running lundahl) as the WE422A takes 3A on its own. 

EL11 with Sylvania 6bl7 flat plates are a great combo.. vocals have a very realistic quality. Terrific bass and dynamics from the 6 pack... Enough current to do justice to planars, listening via HE1000SE as I type this. The Sing Sing Sing album is a nice one, but tonight I'm listening to Billy Eilish and digging the insane bass this setup can put out.


----------



## mordy

I have the HEXFRED and no tube rectifier so there are more amps available.
Wonder if the GOTL with a rectifier sounds much different than a GOTL with a solid state Hexfred rectifier.....


----------



## chrisdrop

UsoppNoKami said:


> Sylvania 6bl7 flat plates are a great combo.. vocals have a very realistic quality. Terrific bass and dynamics from the 6 pack...


How variable are the 6BL7 tube makes? I am still intrigued by any other outputs (I can't escape the Bendix 6080s, but it must only be because I don't have other options that are as good). Several folks who have many nice output tube options (top 6AS7Gs, etc) still like the 6BX7/6BL7s too. I have one set of pretty, perfectly matched, more modern (1980s) GE 6BL7s. They are OK, but I haven't found a setup where I prefer them to alternatives. I am curious how different another make/era would be. I had the impression (probably falsely) that there was less variance in brand across these valves.


----------



## mordy

When it comes to the 6BX/BL7 tubes the older Sylvania parallel plates are supposed to be the best sounding, but they are hard to come by, especially a matched set of six. Even so, I personally did not find huge differences between brands.
That said, I did not find the sextet of 6BX/BL7 tubes to my liking, and much prefer the Bendix 6080 WB. 
However, a number of people really like the sextet setup; maybe it is connected to individual equipment, synergy with other tubes, or individual preferences.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

i have many sets of 6x 6BX7 / 6BL7 ... the Sylvania GT flat plates are the only ones i LOVE.  Took me ages, slowly buying singles and a lucked in on a nice pair to finally have a nice set.

I had them in for months over my WE421A, TS5998, GEC 6AS7G, Bendix 6080, GEC 6080.  

Driver match - Sylvania 6SN7W metal base, Mullard ECC32, GEC 6J5G x2.  Both GEC U52 and WE422A rectifiers sound great with the sextet sylvania flat plates and these drivers.  headphones that sounded great on GOTL with these tubes - verite, HE1000SE, HD800S, LCD-3, HD6xx

they are in again now, so let's see if i stave off the tube rollers itch haha


----------



## mordy

Are you referring to 6BX7, 6BL7, or both?


----------



## whirlwind

New planar has arrived and I am glad to say that Glenn's EL3N amp powers it with authority


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> New planar has arrived and I am glad to say that Glenn's EL3N amp powers it with authority


Holy smokes. Welcome to the club!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jun 23, 2020)

Here is a triplet that I really like:

Sylvania 7N7 + Ken-Rad 6J7's...

Pair of Mullard 6080's...

Sounding fine on some Beyer HP's...

Normally I find the 7N7 "thin" but the K-R 6J7's are the cure.

Enjoy


----------



## UsoppNoKami

mordy said:


> Are you referring to 6BX7, 6BL7, or both?



the many sets?  both

the flat plates - sylvania 6bl7


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 23, 2020)

leftside said:


> Holy smokes. Welcome to the club!



Thanks. The last couple of years every time I had some money to upgrade my cans, I ended up spending it on tubes or an amp.
I am going to add a closed dynamic headphone also, then I will just enjoy my music until the next itch needs scratched...


----------



## NickT23

whirlwind said:


> New planar has arrived and I am glad to say that Glenn's EL3N amp powers it with authority


That is $20,000 worth of setup. Not bad !


----------



## chrisdrop

Tx to @Deyan, new adapter day...

I have had these Visseaux 6J7MG for a bit now and now I can give them a go. I think there is an old post w/ @L0rdGwyn the same/similar tubes. I have just put them in with the other L63 I have in at the moment. On sacrificial headphones presently. They say Visseaux, license Sylvania on the box. Does this mean they manufactured a Sylvania design or that they are basically Sylvania tubes rebranded? 

On another note, I had these EL11s in my cupboard, from a Feliks Euforia I had (briefly). I went to put those in 1st but the 6J5 adapter and the EL11 adapter are too big to cohabitate the amp. I'll need to put in a 6N7G or just the EL11s alone. They aren't visually well matched and if the #s on the front are date codes, they are not date matched either. Interested to see how they go too.


----------



## rnros (Jun 23, 2020)

If anyone is looking for one of these without the high price tag...
FIVRE 6N7G $18 plus postage $15. 1942 tax stamp. German seller with 32K reviews and 99% positive.
Might be worth the gamble.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N7G-Doppe...457414?hash=item2d0f6ef1c6:g:zPcAAOSwGjpe7dW9


----------



## chrisdrop

rnros said:


> If anyone is looking for one of these without the high price tag...
> FIVRE 6N7G $18 plus postage $15. 1942 tax stamp. German seller with 32K reviews and 99% positive.
> Might be worth the gamble.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N7G-Doppe...457414?hash=item2d0f6ef1c6:g:zPcAAOSwGjpe7dW9


Tx for the heads up. I have been loving an early 40s RCA 6N7G lately. I rolled the dice!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> They say Visseaux, license Sylvania on the box. Does this mean they manufactured a Sylvania design or that they are basically Sylvania tubes rebranded?



This means that Visseaux manufactured the tubes while paying patent licensing fees to Sylvania for use of their patents.  You will find other Visseaux branded tubes that have similar construction to Sylvanias for this reason, they seem to have had a relationship.  For instance, the 6A5G used in one of my amplifiers was designed by Sylvania in the USA.  The only other manufacturer was Visseaux, so I suspected they were made under Sylvania license (although they got part of the design wrong and made them DHT rather than IDHT).  Thanks for confirming


----------



## mordy

And I think that it is safe to say that the Sylvania and Visseaux tubes don't sound the same.
BTW, I think I remember reading that RCA sold vacuum tube production line equipment to Svetlana in Russia in 1937. There is a certain resemblance between a RCA 6AS7G and a Svetlana 6H13C or equivalent:


----------



## whirlwind

NickT23 said:


> That is $20,000 worth of setup. Not bad !



Nah...not that much, lol.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> And I think that it is safe to say that the Sylvania and Visseaux tubes don't sound the same.
> BTW, I think I remember reading that RCA sold vacuum tube production line equipment to Svetlana in Russia in 1937. There is a certain resemblance between a RCA 6AS7G and a Svetlana 6H13C or equivalent:




It seems not many people use the RCA 6AS7G power tubes. I guess just because there are better power tubes.
These still are great power tubes when paired with a bit brighter driver tube. They are a darker and softer sounding power tube, but I like them because I can play them a little louder and they have good bass.


----------



## leftside (Jun 24, 2020)

rnros said:


> If anyone is looking for one of these without the high price tag...
> FIVRE 6N7G $18 plus postage $15. 1942 tax stamp. German seller with 32K reviews and 99% positive.
> Might be worth the gamble.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N7G-Doppe...457414?hash=item2d0f6ef1c6:g:zPcAAOSwGjpe7dW9


Those are who I've purchased 2 from. All good. Also purchased other tubes from him. Often cheaper to get tubes shipped from the UK or Germany than it is the US.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> New planar has arrived and I am glad to say that Glenn's EL3N amp powers it with authority



Hey Joe, great looking LCD-4 you have there. How does it compare to your previous LCD-3 (non fazor)?


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Hey Joe, great looking LCD-4 you have there. How does it compare to your previous LCD-3 (non fazor)?



Hey,

It has that same Audeze house sound that I have come to love and that killer planar bass that goes low and is super textured.
Nice liquid mids are still there, just more detailed.
The LCD-4 brings more detail without having to really listen too hard to find it...it is just always there.
It is a bit brighter than the LCD-3 pre-fazor but no where near the point of bringing on fatigue...still maintains all of Audeze assets in my opinion.
I have never heard the LCD-3 fazor...guessing I would say it is that headphone on steroids    

I hope life is treating you well during these hard times.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Hey,
> 
> It has that same Audeze house sound that I have come to love and that killer planar bass that goes low and is super textured.
> Nice liquid mids are still there, just more detailed.
> ...



Sounds like a treat! I am doing well my friend and doing most of my listening with the Dave+HD800.


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Sounds like a treat! I am doing well my friend and doing most of my listening with the Dave+HD800.



I can only imagine the amount of detail that the Dave and HD800 produce.
Glad to hear things are good with you.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> I can only imagine the amount of detail that the Dave and HD800 produce.
> Glad to hear things are good with you.


Yeah, it’s pretty insane. Another reason is that I am just too lazy to swap headphones.

Take care and have fun with your LCD-4!


----------



## chrisdrop

In case of interest, some nice looking Visseaux 6J6Gs available here on head-fi for sale forum.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Bliss


----------



## Jaeger18

i envy you so much.. @UsoppNoKami


----------



## chrisdrop

UsoppNoKami said:


> Bliss


ECC32 Advert: Wireless World, July 1947.
http://www.r-type.org/adverts/adv-0373.htm


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Nice tube glow and great sound - a Mazda 6N7G made for the French Air Force in 1948:
> 
> The 6N7G tubes have great synergy with EL11 and Bendix 6080.



Trying to copy you today @mordy 2x EL11 + 2x Bendix 6080 + 1x 6N7G. I agree that this is a nice pairing. The EL11s are warmer and add some lower heft. The 6NG7 is more spacious in the mids and upper. It almost feels like you get both characteristics with the combo. The EL11s were a bit too warm for me alone, but still not bad at all. I have been using the 6N7G alone quite a bit and really like it.


----------



## mordy

For my taste this is a very fine pairing. I do find that it takes a while before all the tubes are warmed up and performing their best - much longer than other combinations (maybe 45 min). And as far as I am personally concerned, my brain also needs time to adjust to this sound - it builds on you.
If the 6N7G is new, it may need plenty of time to burn in as well. It took quite some time before the bass and slam became stronger.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 24, 2020)

I posted recently about some Klangfilm 70503 tubes I purchased, they arrived, thought I'd show them off once more where all the tubes junkies hang out 




These are a very linear 4V 1A IDHT, used in German radios and audio amplifiers from the 1930s, a variant of the Telefunken REN904, very well may have been manufactured by Telefunken, but I cannot say for sure.  What I can say is they are excellent sounding drivers, huge staging, airiness and detail in spades, deep impactful bass, very similar character to other REN904 I own but not altogether identical soundwise, so perhaps there are internal construction differences.  The tubes from this family had an exterior metallized coating for shielding.  It is difficult to find NOS examples with the coating intact (it is more often flaking off or very oxidized), I was very happy to find these tubes, especially in such good condition with original boxes!

Here it is in a lineup with other REN904 in my collection, left to right in my best estimate of chronological order of manufacture.  Later models of the REN904 were changed to a 0.65A heater.  I recently added a voltage regulators to my amp such that I can use all types


----------



## JazzVinyl

Driver Triplet is sooooooo fine in the GOTL!!  Opens up many new "sonic bliss" possibilities


----------



## JazzVinyl

L0rdGwyn said:


> What I can say is they are excellent sounding drivers, huge staging, airiness and detail in spades, deep impactful bass, very similar character to other REN904 I own but not altogether identical soundwise, so perhaps there are internal construction differences.  The tubes from this family had an exterior metallized coating for shielding.  It is difficult to find NOS examples with the coating intact (it is more often flaking off or very oxidized), I was very happy to find these tubes, especially in such good condition with original boxes!



Super nice, LG!!!  Wish I could hear them!


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I posted recently about some Klangfilm 70503 tubes I purchased, they arrived, thought I'd show them off once more where all the tubes junkies hang out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Beautiful tubes! I am curious if these tubes have a two letter date code somewhere on the base by the tube pins?


----------



## Silent One

L0rdGwyn said:


> I posted recently about some Klangfilm 70503 tubes I purchased, they arrived, thought I'd show them off once more where all the tubes junkies hang out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like an awards show! Nicely presented LOrdGwyn.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Silent One said:


> Looks like an awards show! Nicely presented LOrdGwyn.



Well thank you, welcome back to the 2359glenn thread


----------



## Silent One

Thanks LOrdGwyn. I understand our guru is frequently busy in the studio. I’m about ready to have him cook me up somethin’ special soon, tho.


----------



## mordy

If anyone is interested, here is a nice looking wood headphone stand at a discounted price today ($17:50):
https://www.buydig.com/shop/product...0263&cjevent=0100dfd6b95a11ea82d701490a24060c


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> If anyone is interested, here is a nice looking wood headphone stand at a discounted price today ($17:50):
> https://www.buydig.com/shop/product...0263&cjevent=0100dfd6b95a11ea82d701490a24060c




Nice find mordy, that is a great price.

I must be anal about my pads, I hate them to be compressed while not on my head  

I find that with leather pads that not having them compressed and by cleaning and using leather conditioner on them a couple of times a year that a good set of leather pads will last a nice long while.


I know....as I said I am a bit anal on my pads.....LOL

Carry on


----------



## mordy

Hi whirlwind,
Didn't think about the pads being compressed, but my antique no cost headphone hanger doesn't compress the pads either.
Antique? Well it is a DOA 1939 TFK EL12:



The seller reimbursed me. Couldn't stand the idea of throwing it out and got the idea from a picture of somebody attaching an old tube to a wooden stand to make it into a headphone hanger. Tried it, but too difficult for me to manufacture a piece of wood with eight differently spaced and sized holes to insert the tube into, and glue it in. Then I thought of sticking the tube into a plastic wand and attaching it to my equipment rack with tie ties.
Found a plastic wand in my garage from an old vacuum cleaner - the tube base fit exactly with a pressure fit and I did not have to destroy anything.
"If necessity is the mother of invention, where do all unnecessary inventions come from?"
And don't worry about the tube breaking - them old tubes are quite strong!


----------



## chrisdrop

Roll of the day...

2x Fivre 6J5GT (pic'd a few weeks back) + 2x Visseaux 6J7MG (pic'd a few days back). Outputs unchanged. 

The Fivres are a bit brighter and delicate sounding, but very pleasing/ open. The Visseauxs were a bit more full in the mid-bass. I thought they might be a good compliment. Turns out, they are. I have had a restless, wandering few rolls and this one seems to be sticking!


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> I posted recently about some Klangfilm 70503 tubes I purchased, they arrived, thought I'd show them off once more where all the tubes junkies hang out
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I see the treatment didn't work... Still hooked on tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I really like the woodgrain on those LCD-4s...... it's quite striking.


----------



## 2359glenn

heliosphann said:


> I see the treatment didn't work... Still hooked on tubes.



Can't get away from them I use the REN904 and Phillips E424 in my preamp these old tubes just sound great.
And look neat too The E424s have no coating so you can see the internals.
Love these tubes.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

Wow, dug out a couple of RCA clear top 12AU7s that I found within my stash of guitar amp tubes. Sound stage noticeably wider, and more separation between instruments as well. On my old tube amps, it was always tough to tell a major difference when rolling tubes. Definitely not the case with the Glenn OTL. Now I'm actually getting how tube rolling can be fun (and terribly addicting).


----------



## heliosphann

2359glenn said:


> Can't get away from them I use the REN904 and Phillips E424 in my preamp these old tubes just sound great.
> And look neat too The E424s have no coating so you can see the internals.
> Love these tubes.



Tubes are pretty amazing. They're like functional art, especially the older tubes. Something very "real" about them, as opposed to hidden electronics in a black box.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> I see the treatment didn't work... Still hooked on tubes.



Yup, they might have to institutionalize me, tell your friends kids, *don't do tubes!*



2359glenn said:


> Can't get away from them I use the REN904 and Phillips E424 in my preamp these old tubes just sound great.
> And look neat too The E424s have no coating so you can see the internals.
> Love these tubes.



Some other tubes from this "family" that have clear glass Glenn are the very early Marconi-Osram MH4 (mu 40) and MHL4 (mu 20), here are some MH4, these go for BIG bucks on eBay.




The other I know of is the Mazda AC/HL, two different plate constructions, black plate and nickel.  I have had my eye out for a pair of these for some time, but they go for high prices at auction when they do appear, and it isn't often.  I like the look of the black plates.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yup, they might have to institutionalize me, tell your friends kids, *don't do tubes!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice looking tubes sure I can't afford them right now.  I do have a pair of E424 mesh plates but the solid plates sound better.


----------



## chrisdrop

Does anyone know the Fivre logo history/ ages? Given these and these, there are 2 'fivre' prints on the tubes. Which is likely the older/ newer?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> Does anyone know the Fivre logo history/ ages? Given these and these, there are 2 'fivre' prints on the tubes. Which is likely the older/ newer?



The second link are definitely the older type, the yellow print came later, the pattern I have seen is these tubes are 1960s era.  These tubes also tend to lack the tax exemption decals associated with Fivre tubes.  The box style changed as well.  Earlier Fivre makes will have black print, often with the tube model enclosed inside of an octagon with the older style boxes seen in the photos of the second link.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 30, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> Nice looking tubes sure I can't afford them right now.  I do have a pair of E424 mesh plates but the solid plates sound better.



I can't either, not sure I will ever shell out the cash for the globe mesh plate MH4, but I would like a pair of the AC/HL.  Also would like to get my hands on a pair of your clear glass solid plate E424, but as you know they don't show up often.  Other than those two, I am pretty happy with my collection of these tubes.  I am particularly smitten by the Mullard NR52 right now.  I did a Google Image search for the NR52 and found my own picture HA! here it is next to the metallized Marconi MH4 with my old OTL in the back.  These tubes have enormous soundstage and killer low end, 0.65A heaters.


----------



## mordy

Got in a new ST type 6N7G tube - a RCA 6N7G:



The date code is R 6. To make a long story short we could celebrate the 80th birthday of this tube soon!
R = 1940 
6 = the last two month period of the year (November-December)
The seller listed it as an estate find - it is....


----------



## chrisdrop

I have been really enjoying these 60s GEC L63s. They really sounded good right out of the box and have continued to perform nicely.

I rarely roll my outputs. I have however been back/forth several times with either _just_ 2x Bendix 6080 or those _plus_ 2x RCA 6080 (newer logo variant). 

The Bendix are great on their own. Adding the RCAs gives a sweet bass-cannon effect. It does however take away clarity. I am going to try to find another pair of 6080s that aren't so warm to add to the Bendix outputs. FWIW 4x Bendix is a hot furnace and noisy. Each of 2 pairs is OK independently, but together; no good!


----------



## mordy

You could try Sylvania/Philips 6080 - can be found inexpensive.


----------



## attmci

chrisdrop said:


> I have been really enjoying these 60s GEC L63s. They really sounded good right out of the box and have continued to perform nicely.
> 
> I rarely roll my outputs. I have however been back/forth several times with either _just_ 2x Bendix 6080 or those _plus_ 2x RCA 6080 (newer logo variant).
> 
> The Bendix are great on their own. Adding the RCAs gives a sweet bass-cannon effect. It does however take away clarity. I am going to try to find another pair of 6080s that aren't so warm to add to the Bendix outputs. FWIW 4x Bendix is a hot furnace and noisy. Each of 2 pairs is OK independently, but together; no good!


You should be able to find some good GEC 6080 at UK. No?


----------



## chrisdrop

attmci said:


> You should be able to find some good GEC 6080 at UK. No?


As it happens one of the UK sellers is getting a dozen NOS GEC 6080 in this week. I will grab a pair. Hard to resist. 

I have avoided the 6AS7G because they are silly expensive. Those of you who have them; well played!


----------



## mordy

Between me and you, I prefer the GEC 6080 over the GEC A1834/6AS7G....


----------



## chrisdrop (Jul 7, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> Tx for the heads up. I have been loving an early 40s RCA 6N7G lately. I rolled the dice!


Tx @rnros. It is in the amp presently. I had it in for 30 mins or so with no headphones. Put in my sacrificial headphones, sounds like a touch of noise. My advanced method  (wife's book) has the noise licked for the moment. I imagine it will get quiet, but the temporary measures will suffice before getting into it much more.


----------



## NickT23

chrisdrop said:


> Tx @rnros. It is in the amp presently. I had it in for 30 mins or so with no headphones. Put in my sacrificial headphones, sounds like a touch of noise. My advanced method  (wife's book) has the noise licked for the moment. I imagine it will get quiet, but the temporary measures will suffice before getting into it much more.


weird trickery there. So the book reduce noise floor is it ?


----------



## chrisdrop

NickT23 said:


> weird trickery there. So the book reduce noise floor is it ?


The tube is slightly noisy. In this case, the book makes noise go away. Disclaimer; not the 1st time I have used this approach. Often, it is temporary, so removing the book - and all is quiet!

Mordy in particular has many tube de-noising suggestions. I'll pull it out, sand the pins 1st if it doesn't just get quiet.


----------



## mordy

Many times when there is a little noise I rap the chassis or tap the tube gently -you are not supposed to do the latter but often works for me.
Sometimes just wiggling the tube in the socket and/or tilting it slightly helps as well. Haven't tried the book trick....A paperback is cheaper than them tube dampers lol.....
My 1940 RCA 6N7G is very well behaved and does not get too hot either. And it is one of my favorite drivers ATM - does everything well.


----------



## NickT23

chrisdrop said:


> The tube is slightly noisy. In this case, the book makes noise go away. Disclaimer; not the 1st time I have used this approach. Often, it is temporary, so removing the book - and all is quiet!
> 
> Mordy in particular has many tube de-noising suggestions. I'll pull it out, sand the pins 1st if it doesn't just get quiet.


But I wonder if we get specific tubes that have less noise floor maybe ?


----------



## mordy

Look, we are dealing with tubes that are 60-80 years old and you have to forgive them if they are a little cranky when you wake them up from their decades old sleep....
Usually the noises go away after some use. And as mentioned, oxidation and dirt on the pins have to be taken care of as well as many other factors that can introduce noise.


----------



## NickT23

mordy said:


> Look, we are dealing with tubes that are 60-80 years old and you have to forgive them if they are a little cranky when you wake them up from their decades old sleep....
> Usually the noises go away after some use. And as mentioned, oxidation and dirt on the pins have to be taken care of as well as many other factors that can introduce noise.


So complicated !


----------



## chrisdrop

NickT23 said:


> So complicated !


It is less complicated than you think. While there are some experts 'round here. I am not one. Tubes are lovely little devices that you just learn how to work with. It is truly not complex.


----------



## NickT23

I dont know where to start and all that....


----------



## chrisdrop

NickT23 said:


> I dont know where to start and all that....


We are here to help. What headphones do you have? What are you looking for? Getting a Glenn amp is currently not easy (long queue, not frequent sellers). Glenn's OTL amps in particular are very much aimed at "rolling tubes", but you don't need to roll tubes with it or others. That is however part of the fun.


----------



## NickT23

chrisdrop said:


> We are here to help. What headphones do you have? What are you looking for? Getting a Glenn amp is currently not easy (long queue, not frequent sellers). Glenn's OTL amps in particular are very much aimed at "rolling tubes", but you don't need to roll tubes with it or others. That is however part of the fun.


Thanks man... its hard to say which headphones because in future am getting new headphones and dont know where to start. ZMF, Aelous/Verite Open, Hifiman Susvara, Focal Clear, these are the main ones. Others, are M40x and Dt770 250 ohms. Am looking for variety option of sound profile and tube rolling with long term expenditure and upgrades. However, my main sound profile should be neutral and super clean/noiseless with advantage of tube goodness of it. Transparency is the word, basically solid state but with the tube benefit effects. 

Also, I wonder is Glenn OTL amps is the highest flexibility in tube rolling in the world. Also, he has 3 different variant of amp and all that which cause further confusion in the forum. You people talk as though am out of your league. Funny !


----------



## chrisdrop

You have/will have very nice headphones. When I was in your situation and people on this thread were very helpful. That is the way of it. The same has been true of other amp threads (The Euforia thread comes to mind).

We, including you, are all people who want to listen to music - well. That we share.

The headphones you mention are different in price range/ standard. They may also have different amping needs.

The main issue with Glenn amps right now is their popularity. Glenn makes lovely amps. He also has other work and therefore, there is a long wait. The keyword is patience.

If you are open to other amplifiers, there are other amplifiers, all with varying prices.

There are several ZMF owners around this (and the other tube amp) thread(s). Regarding the Susvara, I don't think an OTL is a good option because (low impedance). You probably need a transformer coupled amp, not a OTL (output transformerless amp) . I could be wrong here and others will know better. 

Last year, I got my Glenn OTL and wasn't sure how much rolling I'd wan to do. I like to roll tubes. It is fun and addictive! You learn as you go and the community is helpful. 

Finally, cost is always a topic. Depending on how much you want to spend, different things are in or out of scope.


----------



## chrisdrop

I assume it is reasonable, based on this tax sticker, to assume this is from 1942? All other markings are meaningless to me on the Fivre tubes. "U.C.I 3" for example?










Another thing, I think this is the getter pictured, and it looks like a 1/2 disc or something?


----------



## leftside

chrisdrop said:


> I assume it is reasonable, based on this tax sticker, to assume this is from 1942? All other markings are meaningless to me on the Fivre tubes. "U.C.I 3" for example?
> 
> 
> 
> Another thing, I think this is the getter pictured, and it looks like a 1/2 disc or something?


Yeah I got exactly the same tube from the same seller. Super cheap! Works great. Wedgy would be selling the same tube for $500 on ebay lol


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 8, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> So complicated !



All this tube stuff might seem complicated, but you must know that several members of this thread are longtime tube addicts with years of knowledge accumulated.  For the average listener, you simply have to get a tube amp, plug in some tubes, turn it on, and away you go.  How deep down the tube rabbit hole you want to go is completely up to you, many of the technical topics discussed are not mandatory to enjoy a tube amplifier.  I do think that people who get into tubes tend to want to learn more about them, they are very fun to explore, but simply getting an amp and having a listen is all you need to do, it is very simple to get started.

Glenn's OTL has a lot of flexibility to use many different tubes, the option is there, but you can use the stock tubes for a time and be very happy with it.  If having so many options is overwhelming, the other path is to get a tube amplifier that is optimized for one specific set of tubes.



leftside said:


> Yeah I got exactly the same tube from the same seller. Super cheap! Works great. Wedgy would be selling the same tube for $500 on ebay lol



That guy is nuts, he posted a pair of those RFT 6J5 tubes for $1,250 USD, I think I paid 60 Euro for them.  I hope wealthy gullable audiophiles are not falling for it...


----------



## Celty

L0rdGwyn said:


> All this tube stuff might seem complicated, but you must know that several members of this thread are longtime tube addicts with years of knowledge accumulated.  For the average listener, you simply have to get a tube amp, plug in some tubes, turn it on, and away you go.  How deep down the tube rabbit hole you want to go is completely up to you, many of the technical topics discussed are not mandatory to enjoy a tube amplifier.  I do tend to think though that people who get into tubes tend to want to learn more about them, they are very fun to explore, but simply getting an amp and having a listen is all you need to do, it is very simple to get started.
> 
> Glenn's OTL has a lot of flexibility to use many different tubes, the option is there, but you can use the stock tubes for a time and be very happy with it.  If having so many options is overwhelming, the other path is to get a tube amplifier that is optimized for one specific set of tubes.
> 
> ...


What are the "stock tubes" for the Glenn OTL?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Celty said:


> What are the "stock tubes" for the Glenn OTL?



If memory serves, Glenn typically includes a pair of Svetlana 6H13C (a Russian 6AS7G equivalent) as well as a Brimar 13D1 (a 25V heater 6SN7) with his OTL, but I am sure that depends on what he has in his stash, so can't be certain that is what the next person in the queue will receive, they would have to ask him.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> If memory serves, Glenn typically includes a pair of Svetlana 6H13C (a Russian 6AS7G equivalent) as well as a Brimar 13D1 (a 25V heater 6SN7) with his OTL, but I am sure that depends on what he has in his stash, so can't be certain that is what the next person in the queue will receive, they would have to ask him.


I think Glenn sent 2x Brimar 6080 and 1x Brimar 13D1 with mine.


----------



## maxpudding

chrisdrop said:


> I assume it is reasonable, based on this tax sticker, to assume this is from 1942? All other markings are meaningless to me on the Fivre tubes. "U.C.I 3" for example?
> 
> 
> 
> Another thing, I think this is the getter pictured, and it looks like a 1/2 disc or something?


Are these from that Italian seller on ebay?


----------



## chrisdrop

maxpudding said:


> Are these from that Italian seller on ebay?


German seller m-ware.


----------



## maxpudding

chrisdrop said:


> German seller m-ware.



ahh ok thanks CD


----------



## mordy

Celty said:


> What are the "stock tubes" for the Glenn OTL?


Hi Celty,
Another alternative is to get the basic Glenn amp that has three or four tubes (3+Hexfred or rectifier). Tube rolling will be minimized but the sound will be the same. In addition, it will cost considerably less.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> All this tube stuff might seem complicated, but you must know that several members of this thread are longtime tube addicts with years of knowledge accumulated.  For the average listener, you simply have to get a tube amp, plug in some tubes, turn it on, and away you go.  How deep down the tube rabbit hole you want to go is completely up to you, many of the technical topics discussed are not mandatory to enjoy a tube amplifier.  I do think that people who get into tubes tend to want to learn more about them, they are very fun to explore, but simply getting an amp and having a listen is all you need to do, it is very simple to get started.
> 
> Glenn's OTL has a lot of flexibility to use many different tubes, the option is there, but you can use the stock tubes for a time and be very happy with it.  If having so many options is overwhelming, the other path is to get a tube amplifier that is optimized for one specific set of tubes.
> 
> ...


Some people must be buying them... otherwise he wouldn't keep listing.


----------



## mordy

Need help with a problem - every time I check on Head Fi on my iPhone I need to sign in. It does not help to check the box "stay signed in" - annoying to have to retype UN and PW every time.
I did not have this problem in the past.
Any advice?


----------



## audiofest2018

mordy said:


> Need help with a problem - every time I check on Head Fi on my iPhone I need to sign in. It does not help to check the box "stay signed in" - annoying to have to retype UN and PW every time.
> I did not have this problem in the past.
> Any advice?


Try Setting  >  Safari  then look for "Block all Cookies" if it is turn ON or OFF.  I think it need to be "OFF".  Also might want to check iCloud keychain and see if your Head Fi login is stored as well.   Good luck!


----------



## mordy

Thanks - Block all cookies is turned OFF.
iCloud Keychain in ON but "your information is encrypted and cannot be read by Apple."
What's next?


----------



## audiofest2018

mordy said:


> Thanks - Block all cookies is turned OFF.
> iCloud Keychain in ON but "your information is encrypted and cannot be read by Apple."
> What's next?


Yeah!  Can you also check 
Setting > Passwords & Accounts > Website & App Passwords to make sure you have Head Fi login stored?  You may need to type in your log in info one more time from your phone and then select "Always Remember" or something like this from your iPhone Safari.  Hope it works.


----------



## mordy

Thanks-the Head-Fi website was not stored and I added it.
When replying now I had to log in again - let’s see if I stay logged in now.


----------



## mordy

audiofest2018 said:


> Yeah!  Can you also check
> Setting > Passwords & Accounts > Website & App Passwords to make sure you have Head Fi login stored?  You may need to type in your log in info one more time from your phone and then select "Always Remember" or something like this from your iPhone Safari.  Hope it works.


Nyet.
When I want to reply on my phone a screen comes comes up that says that this website uses cookies and by using it I consent to cookies. And then it asks me to log in again using all the credentials.....


----------



## audiofest2018

mordy said:


> Nyet.
> When I want to reply on my phone a screen comes comes up that says that this website uses cookies and by using it I consent to cookies. And then it asks me to log in again using all the credentials.....


Sorry!  I thought this should work as this is the setup on my iPhone.


----------



## Monsterzero

@mordy 

try reading thru here and post your issues if a thread on the topic hasnt already been created.


----------



## mordy

audiofest2018 said:


> Sorry!  I thought this should work as this is the setup on my iPhone.


I can access the email notifications of new posts on my iPhone but I can only reply if I sign in anew even though I put a check mark on keep me signed in.
However, I did a soft reset of my phone and apparently there is a new feature on the recent upgrade of the IOS. When the screen asks me to sign in I can do it using the finger print reader - less cumbersome.
Acting on your suggestion and adding the URL seems to have helped for this - thanks.


----------



## chrisdrop

After @Monsterzero posted on another thread last night, I thought I'd go back to the cupboard and give some 6BX7s a go again.

...not a bad experience with these 6BX7s. They are all NOS. I got them some months ago but I have been a staunch Bendix supporter - just using them. I also never nailed a roll with 6BX7s and I had a difficult time originally getting a quiet set (in my amp). 

4x Silvertone (label 312, 913). 312 = Sylvania. 913; I think the 9 is likely the year although unclear if 59,69? 13 = 13th week? I may be entirely wrong here, but google says maybe that is it. They also say AAW on them, not sure if that means anything. (actually only 3/4 tubes are date 913, 1/4 is 409)
2x GE 6BX7. 

The 4x Silvertones I really didn't like as a 4 pack. I suspect the biggest difference is just adding 2 tubes to get 6 vs 4. I was wondering how much a _mixed_ pack would make? Construction-wise, they all look very similar. I guess it could also be that they need/needed burn-in time?

I really hadn't had much of a good experience with 6BX7s and I am enjoying them at the moment. The seller has 2 more Silvertone 6bx7s which I might just pick up for consistency.

I suspect my @Zachik inspired "dummy plug" which helped reduce the noise floor on my amp was also helpful at getting a set of these enjoyable. 

Fun times...


----------



## Zachik

Been using 6 x 6BX7 for a while now... I have 2 sets: NOS Sylvanias bought from Jim Cross (he might have more), and NOS Tung-Sols that I bought from @whirlwind.
Never did a comparison, but both sets are really good (and quiet)! Funny enough - I have not rolled them out in a long time. Just changing drivers every once in a while...


----------



## whirlwind

Does anybody know what is going on at this point with ESRC .

I know that Stan died, I was just wondering if there has been any news on if his son is going to take over or any other news.
The website seems to be no longer active, at least at this time.


----------



## chrisdrop

chrisdrop said:


> After @Monsterzero posted on another thread last night, I thought I'd go back to the cupboard and give some 6BX7s a go again.
> 
> ...not a bad experience with these 6BX7s. They are all NOS. I got them some months ago but I have been a staunch Bendix supporter - just using them. I also never nailed a roll with 6BX7s and I had a difficult time originally getting a quiet set (in my amp).
> 
> ...


Interesting times. I have found a roll I quite like with these 6BX7s.

6x 6BX7 (mostly Silvertones)
2x 6J7MG (Visseaux)
1x 6N7G (RCA)

The 6BX7 are a bit "biting" (as described aptly by mordy earlier on the thread). They do have nice punch however. I have been rolling around trying to get inputs to compliment them. I had KenRad 6J5s in for a ~1/2 a day and like them with the 6J7MGs too. This RCA 6N7G is more spacious however an the roll works better overall IMO.


----------



## whirlwind

If your amp can take six power tubes...it would be very well worth it for people to get sets of 6BX/6BL7 from different manufatcurer's.
It may take time to get nice quiet sets , but still worth it even if you have to buy singles.
Even using four sound pretty darn good and much easier to achieve a low noise floor.
The RCA's don't get a lot of love, but I liked them a lot.


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> Interesting times. I have found a roll I quite like with these 6BX7s.
> 
> 6x 6BX7 (mostly Silvertones)
> 2x 6J7MG (Visseaux)
> ...


Funny - due to angle and composition, my brain was confused as to why your 6N7G tube has a top cap?!


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> The RCA's don't get a lot of love, but I liked them a lot.


I like RCAs, too.  I think most "haters" say they're too warm or too smooth?
In any case, I like their sound. I think I am easy to please - cannot think off hand of tubes I hate... Anything sounds good out of my GOTL (thanks Glenn!)


----------



## chrisdrop (Jul 12, 2020)

Brand question for you tube-smarties. I was looking for some 6J7G tubes.  This tube is labeled "AnM (GEC)".

AnM - what is that brand? Is it really a relabelled GEC?

N.B. I'll be avoiding these 6J7GTs


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> N.B. I'll be avoiding these 6J5GTs


Those are 6J7s... (and I would rather buy a 300b amp if I had $4k to throw )


----------



## chrisdrop (Jul 12, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Those are 6J7s... (and I would rather buy a 300b amp if I had $4k to throw )


!edit-corrected!
(I am a masterful typo-er)


----------



## leftside (Jul 12, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> Brand question for you tube-smarties. I was looking for some 6J7G tubes.  This tube is labeled "AnM (GEC)".
> 
> AnM - what is that brand? Is it really a relabelled GEC?
> 
> N.B. I'll be avoiding these 6J7GTs


The 10E is a military designation and I believe the AM with the crown in the middle represents "Air Ministry" - i.e. the Royal Air Force (RAF). The yellow lettering looks more like STC than GEC, but I'm not sure.

Those Marconi 6J7GT's are probably $400 elsewhere if wedgy is selling them for $4000.


----------



## Celty

chrisdrop said:


> !edit-corrected!
> (I am a masterful typo-er)


No problem, I have a great deal of experience communicating in Typonese.


----------



## whirlwind

Celty said:


> No problem, I have a great deal of experience communicating in Typonese.




Were you the lucky person who grabbed the GOTL in the B/S/T  forums ?


----------



## Celty

whirlwind said:


> Were you the lucky person who grabbed the GOTL in the B/S/T  forums ?


Unfortunately, no, so guess I'll just continue being patient on Glenn's build list


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Interesting times. I have found a roll I quite like with these 6BX7s.
> 
> 6x 6BX7 (mostly Silvertones)
> 2x 6J7MG (Visseaux)
> ...



Hey CD, what are your thoughts on those Visseaux 6J7MG's?  They don't fit in the theme of your 6J5 thread, so I'm guessing a report won't show up there (or maybe you could make an exception?).

Related to the 6BX7s, I got a set of 8 Tung Sol's last year and am a big fan of them.  I mostly used 4 at a time when I had them in regular rotation (I've been stuck on 6080 and 5998 power tubes for months).  They are very spacious and detailed, but need a warmer driver tube complement otherwise they can be too much.  They sound very different from using 4 or 6 GE 6BX7's. @Phantaminum hooked me up with a whole truckload of GE's when I got the GOTL from him.  They are great too, but I figured I would try a different brand when I got the Tung Sol's.  I need to go back to these power tubes soon as it's been a while.


----------



## chrisdrop

whirlwind said:


> Were you the lucky person who grabbed the GOTL in the B/S/T  forums ?


I wonder who the lucky winner was...



GDuss said:


> Hey CD, what are your thoughts on those Visseaux 6J7MG's?  They don't fit in the theme of your 6J5 thread, so I'm guessing a report won't show up there (or maybe you could make an exception?).
> 
> Related to the 6BX7s, I got a set of 8 Tung Sol's last year and am a big fan of them.  I mostly used 4 at a time when I had them in regular rotation (I've been stuck on 6080 and 5998 power tubes for months).  They are very spacious and detailed, but need a warmer driver tube complement otherwise they can be too much.  They sound very different from using 4 or 6 GE 6BX7's. @Phantaminum hooked me up with a whole truckload of GE's when I got the GOTL from him.  They are great too, but I figured I would try a different brand when I got the Tung Sol's.  I need to go back to these power tubes soon as it's been a while.



The 6J7MG's. There is a polish seller who has a load of them. Pairs for $36. I agree w/ your comment:



> They are very spacious and detailed, but need a warmer driver tube complement otherwise they can be too much.



_(musing: Are they the C3Gs of the output world? I can hear your "I've been C3G'd" and perhaps ... "I've been 6BX7'd!")_

The 6J7MGs _by themselves_ are probably not what you would want to use. In combo with other drivers, they add warmth and something else I can't yet name. I keep trying them in different rolls. Today, I have yesterday's roll with just the 6J7MGs _removed_ and I like the roll just about the same as with them. I think that is just because the RCA 6N7G is warm enough on its own. I think of them like the EL32s; good "dual driver" mixer options. I haven't yet found a "killer roll" where they really nail it, however. I think I might at some point. They have made me curious enough to go looking for other 6J7Gs yesterday too...


----------



## gibosi

GDuss said:


> Hey CD, what are your thoughts on those Visseaux 6J7MG's?  They don't fit in the theme of your 6J5 thread, so I'm guessing a report won't show up there (or maybe you could make an exception?).
> 
> Related to the 6BX7s, I got a set of 8 Tung Sol's last year and am a big fan of them.  I mostly used 4 at a time when I had them in regular rotation (I've been stuck on 6080 and 5998 power tubes for months).  They are very spacious and detailed, but need a warmer driver tube complement otherwise they can be too much.  They sound very different from using 4 or 6 GE 6BX7's. @Phantaminum hooked me up with a whole truckload of GE's when I got the GOTL from him.  They are great too, but I figured I would try a different brand when I got the Tung Sol's.  I need to go back to these power tubes soon as it's been a while.



I'm a big fan of the Tung-Sol 6BX7 too. I am currently driving them with Mullard El42 and to add a little sparkle and air, a GEC U18/20 rectifier.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> (musing: Are they the C3Gs of the output world? I can hear your "I've been C3G'd" and perhaps ... "I've been 6BX7'd!")



I think you were the originator of the term "C3G'd" right?  But I wouldn't put these Tung Sol 6BX7's in the same category; I've never been 6BX7'd.  At least not with warmer tubes like RCA 6J5's along with them. Now if I used them with C3g's, or maybe some Tung Sol 12J5's, then I would surely kill the hair cells in my ears  . Also, the Tung Sol 12J5's I have (new in boxes from eBay, the seller still has them listed) are awesome, but only with warmer power tubes. I can't handle them with Tung Sol 6BX7's or even Tung Sol 5998's. I would be Tung Sol'd!!!.



chrisdrop said:


> The 6J7MGs _by themselves_ are probably not what you would want to use. In combo with other drivers, they add warmth and something else I can't yet name. I keep trying them in different rolls. Today, I have yesterday's roll with just the 6J7MGs _removed_ and I like the roll just about the same as with them. I think that is just because the RCA 6N7G is warm enough on its own. I think of them like the EL32s; good "dual driver" mixer options. I haven't yet found a "killer roll" where they really nail it, however. I think I might at some point. They have made me curious enough to go looking for other 6J7Gs yesterday too...



This is really my question about them, how they mix with a 6N7.  If they are on the warmer side, then going with something a bit brighter as a 6N7 makes sense.  The only 6J7's I have right now are RCA's (because I'm a fan of RCA driver tubes) and Sylvania's.  All my 6J7's are metal.  As far as I can tell, the 6J7 sound characteristics are similar between manufacturers to the 6J5/6C5 sound from the same manufacturer.  I just don't have any experience with Visseaux.


----------



## chrisdrop

In case anyone is interested, the least expensive sets of 4x Fivre 6C5G tubes here. Looks like 1951. Still not cheap by far, but the least expensive I have seen in a bit...


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> In case anyone is interested, the least expensive sets of 4x Fivre 6C5G tubes here. Looks like 1951. Still not cheap by far, but the least expensive I have seen in a bit...



Boy they are pretty, too  

I am listening to a pair of KR metal 6C5's KR 6J7's and 6x  6BX7's...and I wonder how much the Fivre 6C6G's would bring to the party!  
Got some bad mamma-jamma bass, goin' on!


----------



## GDuss

JazzVinyl said:


> Boy they are pretty, too
> 
> I am listening to a pair of KR metal 6C5's KR 6J7's and 6x  6BX7's...and I wonder how much the Fivre 6C6G's would bring to the party!
> Got some bad mamma-jamma bass, goin' on!



Do you like using dual tubes in the SN7 slot and also dual tubes in the C3g slots?  I think I only tried that once when testing the 6J7's, almost all of my time with the 6J7 tubes was pairing them with a single 6SN7 or 6N7 tube.  With the dual-dual combo I tried, I remember the sound being confusing, if that term makes any sense here.  But I didn't give it a fair shot.


----------



## mordy (Jul 15, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> Brand question for you tube-smarties. I was looking for some 6J7G tubes.  This tube is labeled "AnM (GEC)".
> 
> AnM - what is that brand? Is it really a relabelled GEC?
> 
> N.B. I'll be avoiding these 6J7GTs


Hi Chrisdrop,
Regarding your AnM tube I believe that it is a relabeled US made tube, possibly a Sylvania 6J7G. Look at these tubes:




https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Tubes-Sm...075043?hash=item2ada003ca3:g:wOMAAOSwl6Rd11ah
It is a little hard to see the actual internal construction on the AnM tube, but that would be the giveaway.
Now, look at this Mullard tube:



As far as I know, only US and Russian manufacturers made all metal 6J7 (and 6J5) tubes. What does it say on the tube? AMERTY. My Swedish friend triod750 suggested that it may mean "American Type" which sounds logical.
Using the same logic, AnM could be interpreted to mean "American Manufacture."
We know that Mullard used US sourced all metal tubes:



Re the designations, the above is conjecture - I have not seen sources for this, but it is plausible IMHO.
If anybody has different information, please let me know.
PS: The metal Visseaux and Philips etc 6J7MG tubes supposedly are glass tubes with a metal cover.


----------



## Lasollor

First of all, hello everyone! 
I have been following this thread for the past year while I’m waiting for my Glenn OTL to be made.
I’ve also collected some tubes for it recently.

The seemingly rare Mullard CV1933 (6J5 equivalent) AMERTY I‘ve aquired recently says it was made in Canada. I’ve heard that Mullard used the AMERTY brand for American, Canadian and Holland made imported tubes). But I have also heard it comes from “American type”, so I think you might be right with the AnM abbreviation too.


----------



## chrisdrop

Lasollor said:


> First of all, hello everyone!
> I have been following this thread for the past year while I’m waiting for my Glenn OTL to be made.
> I’ve also collected some tubes for it recently.
> 
> The seemingly rare Mullard CV1933 (6J5 equivalent) AMERTY I‘ve aquired recently says it was made in Canada. I’ve heard that Mullard used the AMERTY brand for American, Canadian and Holland made imported tubes). But I have also heard it comes from “American type”, so I think you might be right with the AnM abbreviation too.


Thanks both @mordy & @Lasollor 

According to this, you guys are absolutely right: _"This Mullard metal valve is marked Amerty - a term used by Mullard for valves that they imported from the USA in the early 1940's."_

Quite the trend as Brimar is: _"Brimar, which stood for "British Manufactured American Radio" (valves), used all American designations. STC/Brimar was a UK subsidiary of the American giant ITT (International Telephone and Telegraph)."_


----------



## leftside

Yes regarding Amerty.

No regarding AnM. Which American company would put a crown on their tube boxes? 10E is a British military designation - not American. I'll see if I can dig up a link that talks about "AM" being "Air Ministry", although someone might be able to Google it before I get there today.


----------



## leftside

Some info here from Bo Samuelsson:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_vr100.html


----------



## mordy (Jul 15, 2020)

Lasollor said:


> First of all, hello everyone!
> I have been following this thread for the past year while I’m waiting for my Glenn OTL to be made.
> I’ve also collected some tubes for it recently.
> 
> The seemingly rare Mullard CV1933 (6J5 equivalent) AMERTY I‘ve aquired recently says it was made in Canada. I’ve heard that Mullard used the AMERTY brand for American, Canadian and Holland made imported tubes). But I have also heard it comes from “American type”, so I think you might be right with the AnM abbreviation too.


Hi Lasollor,
Thanks for the information! AMERITY would fit in with Canadian tubes as well since it is N. america. Re the above tubes perhaps they were made in June1940 (F40).
Here is a link with interesting pictures of Canadian vacuum tube manufacturing in 1944:
http://www.jproc.ca/marconi/tube_production.html
Another point: Originally British manufacturers may have used US tube designations, but then followed British designations. There are very old military(?) designations such as 10e/352 (=6J7G) that you cannot figure out,
CV 1933 (=6J5). Then there were military designations starting with M such as M8100 (=CV4010 or 6AK5 or 5654 or EF95 or 6F32 or 6J1P etc - you get the gist..).
If that's not enough, the British Valve Association (BVA) later started with their own designations. The reason was that they could not compete price-wise with the US manufacturers, so they they purposely made very different designations to obfuscate things. What do you think a 13D2 tube is? It is a Brimar 6SN7 (aka CV1988 or B65).
Of course, any GOTL owner knows what a 13D1 tube is - a 25V version of the Brimar 6SN7/13D2 (=25SN7GT).
How about 6/30L2? I think gibosi has a pair....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC804-Maz...385266?hash=item5b6066f9b2:g:OVkAAOSwiRFdlIW2
Note that this tube is not pre-owned but preloved LOL.
My head is spinning - need a break......


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Some info here from Bo Samuelsson:
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_vr100.html


Thanks for the interesting link. Read through it but no mention of AnM.


----------



## leftside (Jul 15, 2020)

mordy said:


> Thanks for the interesting link. Read through it but no mention of AnM.


"In 1941 the GB military services started to use the CV numbering system, common to the Army, Navy and Air Force. Before that the Army used the first letter A, the Navy used N and the Air Force V, with the second letter R for receiver, T for transmitter, I for indicator valves and so on. In RMorg many of these valves are filed under the 10E numbering system which was the Air Ministry storage ref. no. and in my opinion not really a valve designation (although it was printed on some valves) and no pointers are showing the equivalents in the A, N, V and CV systems. "
Also see my post one page back where "AM" = "Air Ministry".

And here's another link:
https://talesfromthesupplydepot.blog/2019/06/27/air-ministry-radio-valve/

Do I need to provide any more evidence to the jury?


----------



## chrisdrop

leftside said:


> "In 1941 the GB military services started to use the CV numbering system, common to the Army, Navy and Air Force. Before that the Army used the first letter A, the Navy used N and the Air Force V, with the second letter R for receiver, T for transmitter, I for indicator valves and so on. In RMorg many of these valves are filed under the 10E numbering system which was the Air Ministry storage ref. no. and in my opinion not really a valve designation (although it was printed on some valves) and no pointers are showing the equivalents in the A, N, V and CV systems. "
> Also see my post one page back where "AM" = "Air Ministry".
> 
> And here's another link:
> ...



Pretty compelling there @leftside. Thanks for the tube-know-how...

*"The main valve is marked up with the A ‘crown’ M mark of the Air Ministry"*







and here on the eBay valves:






I went to order a pair of these, but looks like the seller expects perhaps 40 days to arrive. I have messaged him...


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Brand question for you tube-smarties. I was looking for some 6J7G tubes.  This tube is labeled "AnM (GEC)".
> 
> AnM - what is that brand? Is it really a relabelled GEC?
> 
> N.B. I'll be avoiding these 6J7GTs


Hi Chrisdrop,
If you are looking for a GEC 6J7 it has to look like this:





The GEC Z63 tube.


leftside said:


> "In 1941 the GB military services started to use the CV numbering system, common to the Army, Navy and Air Force. Before that the Army used the first letter A, the Navy used N and the Air Force V, with the second letter R for receiver, T for transmitter, I for indicator valves and so on. In RMorg many of these valves are filed under the 10E numbering system which was the Air Ministry storage ref. no. and in my opinion not really a valve designation (although it was printed on some valves) and no pointers are showing the equivalents in the A, N, V and CV systems. "
> Also see my post one page back where "AM" = "Air Ministry".
> 
> And here's another link:
> ...


I don't have any doubts that AM means Air Ministry and there is the crown of the Air Ministry, but I am still quizzed by the designation AnM - what does the n stand for? Is it a stylized crown? Does the tube look British made to you?
Starting an argument is the last thing on mind - just trying to understand what the designation means.....


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Hi Chrisdrop,
> If you are looking for a GEC 6J7 it has to look like this:
> 
> The GEC Z63 tube.
> ...


Tx @mordy. I have only 1 pair of 6J7MG (Visseaux posted recently). I am really just looking for another reasonable pair of 6J7G or GT to try. I'll probably give those AnM valves a go, if the seller is not away for the summer already. 

On another note, I did get 2 more of those Silvertone branded Sylvania 6BX7 tubes to make a nicely matched 6x. I probably have more of these tubes than any other tube and it took neigh on a year to get a set I like  DEAD quiet and nice sounding. 






Be well all!

-Chris-

N.B. There is an eBay seller selling 7x Fivre branded Sylvania 6BL7s for 70EUR that is not a bad deal IMO if anyone is interested. Probably these are easier to get in the US than they are over here seemingly...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> N.B. There is an eBay seller selling 7x Fivre branded Sylvania 6BL7s for 70EUR that is not a bad deal IMO if anyone is interested. Probably these are easier to get in the US than they are over here seemingly...



In other photos, they are shown to be rebranded T plate Sylvania, bummer!  This piqued my interest, I am not sure Fivre manufactured 6BL7, if they did they are exceedingly rare.  I recall seeing a single sold in the past, but have to question if it was another rebrand like the set above.  No doubt they made 6BX7, and for a long time too, I have a few very early makes.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> In other photos, they are shown to be rebranded T plate Sylvania, bummer!  This piqued my interest, I am not sure Fivre manufactured 6BL7, if they did they are exceedingly rare.  I recall seeing a single sold in the past, but have to question if it was another rebrand like the set above.  No doubt they made 6BX7, and for a long time too, I have a few very early makes.


When I 1st saw the listing, and the price, I was psyched! Then when I saw they were really Sylvanias ... . The only other sets of 6+ 6BL7s I have found on this side of the pond are GEs and ... I don't like them.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> When I 1st saw the listing, and the price, I was psyched! Then when I saw they were really Sylvanias ... . The only other sets of 6+ 6BL7s I have found on this side of the pond are GEs and ... I don't like them.



Sextets are pretty hard to come by it seems, especially on eBay.  Maybe try for pairs instead?  I think I bought an octet of T plate Sylvania 6BL7 from Billington, found full sets from other tube sellers, although those veins are probably depleted since I shared them here.  Toshiba 6BX7 can only be found in Japan, which can get expensive.  The RCA clear top side getter 6BX7 are nice and still findable.  I need to do something with my 6BX7s at some day...maybe I'll build a cathode tube TV.


----------



## attmci

chrisdrop said:


> When I 1st saw the listing, and the price, I was psyched! Then when I saw they were really Sylvanias ... . The only other sets of 6+ 6BL7s I have found on this side of the pond are GEs and ... I don't like them.


6BL7GTA should work too.


----------



## mordy

I have made it a habit of always turning on my tube amp with a pair of inexpensive headphones just in case something is wrong - want to avoid blowing a driver.
This evening I did notice a slight scratchy noise after playing for a while and having switched over to my favorite headphones.
From experience I know that if I move around one of the power tubes (Bendix 6080) in the socket, the noise goes away. (You just have to be very careful to use a towel or something similar to touch it - 165C ain't no fun to touch with bare fingers!)
Before this happened, I did not touch the amplifier or move it.
This is my question: Is it possible that thermal expansion could change the position of the tube causing noise?


----------



## chrisdrop (Jul 20, 2020)

After a week of _really enjoying_ that Silvertone (Sylvania) 6x 6BX7 (which either I became accustomed to, or they burned in nicely), I have popped in 2x GEC 6080s.

They are 1965 tubes. In true GEC form, they sound pretty great right away. Eventually, I'll try them w/ 2x Bendix. Right now -just enjoying 'em. Perfect, silent, lovely.

The L63 brown base inputs have stayed put for a bit. I wanted to keep the inputs constant while rotating outputs. Happy they are there.

_FWIW - @Phantaminum was __selling some GEC 6AS7Gs (and other nice tubes) over in the forums__ if any of you may be interested._







Nicely shows off the tidy low end of this setup...


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> After a week of _really enjoying_ that Silvertone (Sylvania) 6x 6BX7 (which either I became accustomed to, or they burned in nicely), I have popped in 2x GEC 6080s.
> 
> They are 1965 tubes. In true GEC form, they sound pretty great right away. Eventually, I'll try them w/ 2x Bendix. Right now -just enjoying 'em. Perfect, silent, lovely.
> 
> ...




Very exciting CD!!!  I'm looking forward to your impressions on these 6080's as you get more time with them.  

Any updates on the GEC L63's?  Where do they fall on your ranking of J5/C5/L63 tubes (roughly)?


----------



## chrisdrop

GDuss said:


> Very exciting CD!!!  I'm looking forward to your impressions on these 6080's as you get more time with them.
> 
> Any updates on the GEC L63's?  Where do they fall on your ranking of J5/C5/L63 tubes (roughly)?


These brown-base L63s (1963 I believe) are very nice. I think they are similar to the (more expensive) 1940s coke-bottle ones. I am not sure if I could distinguish between the two if I am honest. I may just have a case of novice-ear  Anyhow, these are probably near the top of all my inputs. They are also relatively inexpensively available. They sounded good from the 1st day too. Try as I might, I can't say that I have found any metal tubes that rival (in quality) my other GT or G tubes in this family. Value for money, the metal tubes certainly win, however.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> These brown-base L63s (1963 I believe) are very nice. I think they are similar to the (more expensive) 1940s coke-bottle ones. I am not sure if I could distinguish between the two if I am honest. I may just have a case of novice-ear  Anyhow, these are probably near the top of all my inputs. They are also relatively inexpensively available. They sounded good from the 1st day too. Try as I might, I can't say that I have found any metal tubes that rival (in quality) my other GT or G tubes in this family. Value for money, the metal tubes certainly win, however.



Great to hear, especially since as you point out, they are available and not as expensive as some other well-known GEC's.

And you are well past novice-ear at this point


----------



## chrisdrop

GDuss said:


> Great to hear, especially since as you point out, they are available and not as expensive as some other well-known GEC's.
> 
> And you are well past novice-ear at this point


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


>



That's gold right?  Not copper?  Mine are still at some low level of aluminum I'm afraid.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> After a week of _really enjoying_ that Silvertone (Sylvania) 6x 6BX7 (which either I became accustomed to, or they burned in nicely), I have popped in 2x GEC 6080s.
> 
> They are 1965 tubes. In true GEC form, they sound pretty great right away. Eventually, I'll try them w/ 2x Bendix. Right now -just enjoying 'em. Perfect, silent, lovely.
> 
> ...



Here is another nice test track for low end and up, and don't forget the birds and the frying pans...


----------



## wenbinbin2010

wenbinbin2010 said:


> Wow, dug out a couple of RCA clear top 12AU7s that I found within my stash of guitar amp tubes. Sound stage noticeably wider, and more separation between instruments as well. On my old tube amps, it was always tough to tell a major difference when rolling tubes. Definitely not the case with the Glenn OTL. Now I'm actually getting how tube rolling can be fun (and terribly addicting).



A follow-up on my own post from a while back. I just got a 6922 to 6SN7 adapter in so I could find some use from my old Amperex 7308s that I bought from my old Liquid Platinum. Man these sound so punchy! It may even be too punchy, but when you're in the mood for a very dynamic sound, this fits the bill perfectly and cost me close to nothing for the adapter (well I guess the sunk cost of buying the Amperex tubes previously). I still think I like the balanced and wider sound of the RCA 12AU7 clear top, so I might branch off to some other 12AU7s and see how they compare. 

Anyhow, the rest of my tube setup is 2x GEC 6080s, Sophia 274B Aqua rectifier. I bought some Ken-Rad 6SN7 black glass tubes initially thinking they'd be end-game, but these smaller tubes have really surprised me!


----------



## mordy

It's all in the synergy - enjoy rolling and re-discovering your old tubes! The GOTL is extremely versatile, and sooner or later  you will find a special favorite combination - most tubes sound good in the GOTL.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> It's all in the synergy - enjoy rolling and re-discovering your old tubes! The GOTL is extremely versatile, and sooner or later  you will find a special favorite combination - most tubes sound good in the GOTL.



And just when you think you have it all figured out?  Change out your headphones.

Basically about 99.9% of the opinions I have of tubes I own were formed with the Aeolus.  But recently I re-discovered that I really like the HD-650.  When I first got the GOTL, literally the first time I turned it on, I plugged in the 650 because I didn't know what I was doing.  Why destroy the Aeolus?  That first evening I listened to the 650 for about an hour or two, amazed at how good they sounded.  After that, it was Aeolus from then on, only using the 650 as a sacrificial headphone to test new tubes, but never really listening to music with them.  

For some reason, I recently decided to give them a shot again with actual music.  And they're fantastic on the GOTL (glad I didn't destroy them with bad tubes).  So now I'm starting to go back through tubes and combinations to figure out if there are options that work with the 650 but didn't with the Aeolus.  Not surprisingly, the overall character of tubes comes across the same between the two so far, but we will see if there is something that now works and didn't before.

There is a list of things the Aeolus does better.  But for whatever reason, I don't care right now and am having fun with the Sennheisers again.  Maybe it's because, as I pointed out above, I still have aluminum ears  .


----------



## mordy

I know that there are people that use different headphones for different kinds of music, but as far as I am concerned, a good set of headphones should sound good with all kinds of music.
And in my experience, when you find a favorite tube combination, different headphones all sound good with them, but different aspects may be emphasized by different headphones.
BTW, I think that in the old days people called headphones "cans"? Maybe that fell out of use when the headphones can (pun intended) cost more than your amp.....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

GDuss said:


> And just when you think you have it all figured out?  Change out your headphones.
> 
> Basically about 99.9% of the opinions I have of tubes I own were formed with the Aeolus.  But recently I re-discovered that I really like the HD-650.  When I first got the GOTL, literally the first time I turned it on, I plugged in the 650 because I didn't know what I was doing.  Why destroy the Aeolus?  That first evening I listened to the 650 for about an hour or two, amazed at how good they sounded.  After that, it was Aeolus from then on, only using the 650 as a sacrificial headphone to test new tubes, but never really listening to music with them.
> 
> ...



The HD650 can be significantly elevated with a good amplifier, it scales very well and can hang with the big boys with a good amp, IMO  remember at one point this was one of the best headphones money could buy!


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> remember at one point this was one of the best headphones money could buy!



And now it costs as much as the cable I use on the Aeolus!!!


----------



## mordy

Drop (formerly Massdrop) has the 650 for $220.


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Jul 21, 2020)

mordy said:


> I know that there are people that use different headphones for different kinds of music, but as far as I am concerned, a good set of headphones should sound good with all kinds of music.
> And in my experience, when you find a favorite tube combination, different headphones all sound good with them, but different aspects may be emphasized by different headphones.
> BTW, I think that in the old days people called headphones "cans"? Maybe that fell out of use when the headphones can (pun intended) cost more than your amp.....



This tube roll does that for me... It works with all my headphones heheh




Verite, HD800S, HD6xx and even current hungry planars like the HE1000SE and LCD-3 love this GOTL 6-pack special


----------



## canfabulous (Jul 22, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> The HD650 can be significantly elevated with a good amplifier, it scales very well and can hang with the big boys with a good amp, IMO  remember at one point this was one of the best headphones money could buy!



My pair are old enough to vote (18+ years) and I'll never let them leave home!

// edit - in my old age, I must be losing track of time as I note these headphones can only be 16-17 years old due to the HD650 being released in 2003.  Either that, or my math is bad...


----------



## GDuss

canfabulous said:


> My pair are old enough to vote (18+ years) and I'll never let them leave home!



Mine are only 5 years old.  They would have been starting school next month, but will now be learning from home.  Great news for me I guess.  So far my 2 year old Aeolus is not complaining about the recent lack of attention, but I'm guessing that is going to change at some point.


----------



## chrisdrop (Jul 22, 2020)

_(I am sure that if one were to scroll back through all 2475 pages of this thread, they would find a conversation or three where my comments below are already made by someone else, more clearly and eloquently!)_

So far, I am really enjoying the GEC 6080s. They are different than the Bendix; a little more balanced, spacious, some more clarity in general - especially in the treble. The Bendix however have a really sweet, controlled and substantial low end thump. I am not sure if they Bendix have the upper clarity of the GECs. Right now, feeling like they are equal, but different.
2x GEC + 2x Bendix  = _Proper thunder,_ and a bit more spaciousness than the Bendix alone. I am enjoying the set at the minute ... it might be TOO much. Right now, I am just enjoying a bit of getting my head blown off 
I can't say yet, if I prefer 2 of one, the other, or all 4... more to come.


----------



## gibosi

chrisdrop said:


> _(I am sure that if one were to scroll back through all 2475 pages of this thread, they would find a conversation or three where my comments below are already made by someone else, more clearly and eloquently!)_
> 
> So far, I am really enjoying the GEC 6080s. They are different than the Bendix; a little more balanced, spacious, some more clarity in general - especially in the treble. The Bendix however have a really sweet, controlled and substantial low end thump. I am not sure if they Bendix have the upper clarity of the GECs. Right now, feeling like they are equal, but different.
> 2x GEC + 2x Bendix  = _Proper thunder,_ and a bit more spaciousness than the Bendix alone. I am enjoying the set at the minute ... it might be TOO much. Right now, I am just enjoying a bit of getting my head blown off
> I can't say yet, if I prefer 2 of one, the other, or all 4... more to come.



In my mind I always thought that the GEC and Bendix together would be really good, but I never got around to actually run them together. So I'm very glad that you tried this combination because now I know. They really are good together.


----------



## mordy

For many months I was using 4x 6080, but ultimately I think that you get better clarity with just one set and with
 careful driver matching - whether 1/2/3 tubes. Or 4 if you use single triodes together with tubes in the C3g sockets.


----------



## Velozity (Jul 23, 2020)

Thought I'd try my hand at some artistic photography since we're on the topic of Bendix + GEC.  For your viewing pleasure:


----------



## Velozity (Jul 23, 2020)




----------



## UsoppNoKami

Haven't put this tube roll in for Half a year or more. ECC32, WE421A and WE422A. Thoroughly enjoyable with the Verite


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 23, 2020)

UsoppNoKami said:


> Haven't put this tube roll in for Half a year or more. ECC32, WE421A and WE422A. Thoroughly enjoyable with the Verite




Very nice ....I am in line for a Verite closed  and I can't wait to hear it with the Mullard ECC 31/32/33/35 tubes...I just love all of them as drivers.

It is really cool to hear that ZMF is looking into making a more of an entry level headphone, as I think many people who have an OTL amp will get an opportunity to enjoy Zach's  tuning of a headphone and great enjoyment out of it


----------



## chrisdrop

Anyone had a solid success with just a pair of 6J7s as drivers? I have been trying to use them as dual drivers. Early in the roll, but these might work...




I have a pair of 6J7Gs (the AnMs we were discussing earlier) coming soon enough, so I will certainly give those a go in the same solo form.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Anyone had a solid success with just a pair of 6J7s as drivers? I have been trying to use them as dual drivers. Early in the roll, but these might work...
> 
> 
> 
> I have a pair of 6J7Gs (the AnMs we were discussing earlier) coming soon enough, so I will certainly give those a go in the same solo form.



I haven't spent enough time with 6J7's alone to be able to make a judgement.  What are the tubes in your photo?  Not the Visseaux's right?

Did you get the AnM's from the seller in Belgium?  I'm guessing not since September arrival is not exactly soon.


----------



## chrisdrop

GDuss said:


> I haven't spent enough time with 6J7's alone to be able to make a judgement.  What are the tubes in your photo?  Not the Visseaux's right?
> 
> Did you get the AnM's from the seller in Belgium?  I'm guessing not since September arrival is not exactly soon.


Yes - Visseaux in photo. I have had them in for a few hours alone and I don't feel like I need to change 'em. They have a nice spaciousness. 
AnMs are from Belgium seller, but they were shipped in 1 day. He was just being hyper-cautious because of covid _for outside Europe shipping especially._
I don't have them yet, but I expect them sooner-than-later.


----------



## mordy (Jul 24, 2020)

I have used a number of different US made 6J7 tubes as drivers, and they sound good. However, adding a third driver seemed to add to the sound in a positive way at times.
The 6C5 is supposed to be using the same parts as the 6J7 but only connected internally to be used as a triode. The reason I took a chance and started with the 6J7 tubes is that the pinout is the same as the EL32, and I already had adapters for it, and I like the 6C5 tubes.
In addition the 6J7 is fairly unknown, and the prices are low.


----------



## chrisdrop (Jul 25, 2020)

Well, I was enjoying those Visseaux 6J7MGs as sole drivers yesterday. Earlier this morning, those "AnM" 6J7G tubes (via Belgium) arrived. I popped them right in. They are very pretty. Better pictures in original listing here.

After a short while I can already say that these are very nice tubes. With no time on them, they are probably as good as any of my "expensive" 6J5 drivers. As per comments to @GDuss - they arrived quickly as the seller indicated.

_EDIT: After several hours, I'd like to upward-revise my opinion; these things rock. _

... The truth may be; _Glenn's amps make everything sound good!! (_With an adapter of course, actual light-bulbs would probably sound excellent).

Also - thanks @Deyan for the nice adapters.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Well, I was enjoying those Visseaux 6J7MGs as sole drivers yesterday. Earlier this morning, those "AnM" 6J7G tubes (via Belgium) arrived. I popped them right in. They are very pretty. Better pictures in original listing here.
> 
> After a short while I can already say that these are very nice tubes. With no time on them, they are probably as good as any of my "expensive" 6J5 drivers. As per comments to @GDuss - they arrived quickly as the seller indicated.
> 
> ...



They do indeed look pretty, glad they sound good too.  I'm guessing those are the GEC 6080's in the back?  Once you get some time on the 6J7's alone, maybe roll in some GEC 6J5's in front and have a GEC party!!!  At least until those 1951 Fivre 6C5G's arrive.

Did you buy these as singles or in the matched pair?  He/she still has the matched pair listed, but may have several pairs.


----------



## chrisdrop (Jul 25, 2020)

GDuss said:


> They do indeed look pretty, glad they sound good too.  I'm guessing those are the GEC 6080's in the back?  Once you get some time on the 6J7's alone, maybe roll in some GEC 6J5's in front and have a GEC party!!!  At least until those 1951 Fivre 6C5G's arrive.
> 
> Did you buy these as singles or in the matched pair?  He/she still has the matched pair listed, but may have several pairs.


Most of this week, I had that GEC party: (I think they are) 1953 GEC L63s in w/ the GEC 6080s. Really enjoyable. I like the GEC 6080s. I do think (as @mordy suggested) that i prefer 1 pair of 6080s, although 4 can pump some forceful sound, it is a bit less clear sounding. I liked the Bendix+GEC gig for a bit. I am sure it will happen again sometimes! I'd go so far as to say that GEC party setup is my current "incumbent" roll.

The past few weeks, I have had some of the best rolls in a long time. Whilst I was focussed on changing outputs, I mostly kept the GEC L63 brown-base in place. I'll probably keep the GEC outputs for a few weeks now.

On the AnM 6J7Gs; I just bought 2, but perhaps I should have gotten a matched pair. Not sure how much difference it really makes, smarter minds can opine on that.

I was trying to get in there and see what getter type there is, but it is very hard to see past the silvery flashing and big grid. I think it looks like a flat rectangular plate, but I can't be sure.

I am also not sure the date of these AnM tubes (I think the "n" is just "and"). My thinking is they are > 1936 < 1941. Other googling suggests the military names changed after 1941. The only other marking on them is NAPL 101. No idea what that means.

FYI - this link also says they are GEC too for ~the same tubes (other AnM tubes on that site they say the "actual brand" is STC). This link on 6J5Gs says; "_This American made valve carries the old UK military stores code of 110E/105 and was thus made for use in the UK_.". Not really clear who made these things.

Anyhow, I am happy to recant a former comment on the Visseauxs.



chrisdrop said:


> The 6J7MGs _by themselves_ are probably not what you would want to use.



I think they are quite alright on their own. Perhaps I only tried them solo when they were 100% unused. I used them yesterday happily.

Finally, more of a technical question for those technically minded here. This amp can take _allllll_ kinds of tubes. If I take the C3G sockets, I have all put sorts of tubes in there. I assume the amp will be biased (or otherwise suited?) such that it will be better (more linear?) for some tubes than for others. For example, I am enjoying these 6J7Gs. Notwithstanding them "just being good tubes", is the amp "suited" (well biased/suited?) to these tubes, or am I enjoying because it is more distorted and less well biased to these tubes? Or is it all the same... Perhaps this question doesn't make a ton of sense, but with my meagre understanding, I think it might


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> I do think (as @mordy suggested) that i prefer 1 pair of 6080s



It's certainly cooler with 2 than 4.  I've also gravitated recently toward 2 6080's rather than 4, maybe partially because it's hot here.



chrisdrop said:


> On the AnM 6J7Gs; I just bought 2, but perhaps I should have gotten a matched pair. Not sure how much difference it really makes, smarter minds can opine on that.



I won't claim to be a smarter mind, but I have many 6J5/6C5/12J5 tubes at this point, and I don't think I've ever bought them as a matched pair.  So I'm not sure how much it matters either, but 2 singles are cheaper than the pair.



chrisdrop said:


> Anyhow, I am happy to recant a former comment on the Visseauxs.



Thanks for the updated comments.  I've been debating whether to get a pair of these to try out.  They're not GEC-level pricing, but also aren't on the metal 6J5 price level either, and I have somehow built a long list of tubes to buy soon (I'm trying to triage which come sooner).  One thing I don't have a sense of is what the Visseaux "house sound" is as I've never heard any tubes from that brand.  This is more of a general question (and a bit off topic of this post), so I will post it in a new comment below.


----------



## GDuss

Following from my post above, this maybe a tube-novice question, but does Visseaux have a "house sound"?  My general feeling is that when I buy a Ken Rad tube, I have an expectation of how it will sound (there will be bass).  The actual sound doesn't always match the expectation, but more often than not it does.  The same is true for RCA, Sylvania, Tung Sol etc.  They seem to have a "house sound" to them and I have a good idea of what I'm in for.  But does Visseaux have a house sound?  If so, what is it?  Are they comparable to another manufacturer in terms of sound qualities?

Related to this, how is it that a given manufacturer ends up with a house sound?  These companies didn't make all their tubes for audio, but it seems that even the tubes a company may have made for a different purpose will often stick to the sound of their other tubes.  Is it the materials they use in the manufacturing?  Is it their "house design" approach?  Or am I just being overly simplistic, and RCA for example doesn't really have a house sound?  They certainly sound different from different eras of production, but if you talk about a 40's RCA tube, I think people will generally know what sound you are referring to, regardless of whether it's a 6SN7 or a 6AS7G (the 40's 6J7 tubes I have also stick with this theme).


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Well, I was enjoying those Visseaux 6J7MGs as sole drivers yesterday. Earlier this morning, those "AnM" 6J7G tubes (via Belgium) arrived. I popped them right in. They are very pretty. Better pictures in original listing here.
> 
> After a short while I can already say that these are very nice tubes. With no time on them, they are probably as good as any of my "expensive" 6J5 drivers. As per comments to @GDuss - they arrived quickly as the seller indicated.
> 
> ...


Congrats on these beautiful tubes! My contention is that they speak with a Yankee drawl - please look at the Sylvania in these pictures and tell me if the top internal construction of your tubes matches:









The fact that Sylvania exported tubes to England pre-war with the British military book keeping system designations also speaks in favor of this.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> Following from my post above, this maybe a tube-novice question, but does Visseaux have a "house sound"?  My general feeling is that when I buy a Ken Rad tube, I have an expectation of how it will sound (there will be bass).  The actual sound doesn't always match the expectation, but more often than not it does.  The same is true for RCA, Sylvania, Tung Sol etc.  They seem to have a "house sound" to them and I have a good idea of what I'm in for.  But does Visseaux have a house sound?  If so, what is it?  Are they comparable to another manufacturer in terms of sound qualities?
> 
> Related to this, how is it that a given manufacturer ends up with a house sound?  These companies didn't make all their tubes for audio, but it seems that even the tubes a company may have made for a different purpose will often stick to the sound of their other tubes.  Is it the materials they use in the manufacturing?  Is it their "house design" approach?  Or am I just being overly simplistic, and RCA for example doesn't really have a house sound?  They certainly sound different from different eras of production, but if you talk about a 40's RCA tube, I think people will generally know what sound you are referring to, regardless of whether it's a 6SN7 or a 6AS7G (the 40's 6J7 tubes I have also stick with this theme).


It appears to me that there is such a thing as 'house sound", especially when it comes to tubes from a specific era. I only have two Visseaux tubes, 6N7G and 6N7GT (both under different labels). From the little experience I have I would say that the sound is neutral, vivid, and with a large sound stage.
Possibly the house sound can be attributed to the specific alloys and metals used in the production as well as production methods. When tubes fell into disuse in the 60's and later, most of this know-how got lost, and entire factories and equipment were sold as scrap. Re-issue tubes many times do not sound as good as their originals, but apparently there are exceptions.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Congrats on these beautiful tubes! My contention is that they speak with a Yankee drawl - please look at the Sylvania in these pictures and tell me if the top internal construction of your tubes matches:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that Sylvania exported tubes to England pre-war with the British military book keeping system designations also speaks in favor of this.



Professor Mordy, interesting hypothesis 🙂 Do you have any ideas for what the NAPL abbreviation stands for?  Is that part of the British book keeping system?  Or could it be related to the original manufacturer?


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> It appears to me that there is such a thing as 'house sound", especially when it comes to tubes from a specific era. I only have two Visseaux tubes, 6N7G and 6N7GT (both under different labels). From the little experience I have I would say that the sound is neutral, vivid, and with a large sound stage.
> Possibly the house sound can be attributed to the specific alloys and metals used in the production as well as production methods. When tubes fell into disuse in the 60's and later, most of this know-how got lost, and entire factories and equipment were sold as scrap. Re-issue tubes many times do not sound as good as their originals, but apparently there are exceptions.



So same design engineers and same materials leads to a consistent sound. The house sound.


----------



## gibosi

GDuss said:


> So same design engineers and same materials leads to a consistent sound. The house sound.



I would say that tubes manufactured in the same factory, by the same company at about the same time, tend to sound similar.  This is likely due to personnel, materials and factory assembly line equipment and procedures that are unique to that company.


----------



## mordy (Jul 25, 2020)

I do not know what NAPL101 means.
The 10/etc or 110/ etc on tubes used by the British military were designations in an early book keeping system; I assume similar to the US VT-etc system used by the military.
In addition, the British navy had it's own system starting with NRetc.
It gets pretty confusing...
What is the difference between these tubes?
10E/453, NR73, ECC31, CV1285, CV1956
Answer: Same tube
Add 10E/352, 110E/105, 6N7G to the list


----------



## chrisdrop

chrisdrop said:


> Well, I was enjoying those Visseaux 6J7MGs as sole drivers yesterday. Earlier this morning, those "AnM" 6J7G tubes (via Belgium) arrived. I popped them right in. They are very pretty. Better pictures in original listing here.
> 
> After a short while I can already say that these are very nice tubes. With no time on them, they are probably as good as any of my "expensive" 6J5 drivers. As per comments to @GDuss - they arrived quickly as the seller indicated.
> 
> ...


An update on these AnM 6J7Gs. Big, controlled bass. Wide staging. Lovely mids. I am loving these things presently. 

As to @mordy's comments; I need to take them out and take better pictures, etc. They are not an _identical_ match to any of those tubes pictured. They are certainly similar, as the tubes you pictured are similar to one another. I noticed there was writing inside the tube. I tried to take some pictures using flash, etc to capture the writing inside. No idea what it means (still no clue on NAPL 101 either).


----------



## Velozity

Just received these Sylvania 6J5G today so after about an hour warm-up I gave them a listen after pulling out my GEC L63.  

Why...do...I...like...these...better...than...the...L63??  It can't be so, surely I am mistaken.  First impressions can't be trusted in this hobby right?  I must try again tomorrow (and the next day, and so on...)

In all seriousness though, these things have amazeballs detail and soundstage.  I think they're just a better match for the Bendix 6080WB than my L63 are.  They really wake up my Verite Closed.  We'll see after extended listening...

Sylvania 6J5G with foil getter, 1Z and 0V codes, little leaf symbols on the bases, yellow lettering (I'll take better detail pics when I shut the amp down later.)


----------



## GDuss

Velozity said:


> Just received these Sylvania 6J5G today so after about an hour warm-up I gave them a listen after pulling out my GEC L63.
> 
> Why...do...I...like...these...better...than...the...L63??  It can't be so, surely I am mistaken.  First impressions can't be trusted in this hobby right?  I must try again tomorrow (and the next day, and so on...)
> 
> ...



Can you use 12V tubes in your amp?  If so, try some of these (recommended to me by @mordy ):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-V...670931?hash=item442ed7cd93:g:JWoAAOSwtmBbcKY4

I think several others here bought them as well, or similar tubes from another seller.  These are pretty impressive for $6 each.


----------



## Velozity (Jul 28, 2020)

GDuss said:


> Can you use 12V tubes in your amp?  If so, try some of these (recommended to me by @mordy ):
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-V...670931?hash=item442ed7cd93:g:JWoAAOSwtmBbcKY4
> 
> I think several others here bought them as well, or similar tubes from another seller.  These are pretty impressive for $6 each.




No I didn't opt for the 12V switch on my GOTL, but thanks for the tip anyway.  I did however also just receive these Sylvania VT-94D / 6J5GT so I will compare those to the ST shaped ones I'm enjoying now and see if they're the same or different.  Been listening to the 6J5G going on 3 hours now and just can't seem to go to bed...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-1944-JAN-6J5GT-G-VT94D-NOS-NIB-vacuum-tubes-tested-and-guaranteed/184360845161?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## mordy

Hi Velozity,
I am guessing here, but 1Z could be December 1941 and 0V could be August 1940. (Take the alphabet and use A for January   and December becomes L. Then start anew on N = January and leave out O and Q {can be confused with 0} ; Z = December; V = August.)
The 12V 12J5GT tubes that GDuss referenced are from 1946.


----------



## GDuss

Velozity said:


> No I didn't opt for the 12V switch on my GOTL, but thanks for the tip anyway.  I did however also just receive these Sylvania VT-94D / 6J5GT so I will compare those to the ST shaped ones I'm enjoying now and see if they're the same or different.  Been listening to the 6J5G going on 3 hours now and just can't seem to go to bed...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-1944-JAN-6J5GT-G-VT94D-NOS-NIB-vacuum-tubes-tested-and-guaranteed/184360845161?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Those 6J5GTs should be great too. I’m curious to hear your comparison between them and the 6J5G.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

GDuss said:


> Can you use 12V tubes in your amp?  If so, try some of these (recommended to me by @mordy ):
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-V...670931?hash=item442ed7cd93:g:JWoAAOSwtmBbcKY4
> 
> I think several others here bought them as well, or similar tubes from another seller.  These are pretty impressive for $6 each.



I searched through the thread and found some vague answers, but can someone reiterate, if I have a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter, what voltage should I select if I'm adapting 12J5s? 6V or 12V?

I have a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter and have always run that at 6V with no issues. I've never attempted running those at 12V (and past posts seem to suggest against running the 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter at 12V).


----------



## Karnicopia (Jul 28, 2020)

I feel like 6J5's are just great tubes because it seems like whatever I listen to from that type I really like the sound. I picked up some of the metal GE 6J5's and they sound amazing and for a while were quieter than the GEC 6J5's so I did prefer the GE for a bit but but now the GEC have settled down and I do like the sound of them. I picked up a pair of Fivre 6J5 so I'm excited to try those out but they have to go through customs so it may be a while.

I've been pretty boring from a tube rolling perspective (GEC 6J5 and Bendix 6080 for a long time) but I had a noisy Bendix 6080 and I just started playing around trying to reduce the noise so I started switching outlets and found one that was quieter and then I switched the power plug into the amp into just a ACE hardware beefier cable and that made an improvement so I switched out the noisy Bendix for the backup one and everything is really quiet and I think I am going to pick up a hospital power cable. jinxy245 suggested this and I think it makes sense those machines need reliable and clean power and they seem really reasonably priced ($5-$10). I was going to try some of the tube maintenance ideas from the thread on the noisy 6080 so I'll probably start with sanding the pins and see if that helps.


----------



## mordy

Definitely start with cleaning the pins. I have a Bendix that started to be noisy and I found that I could eliminate the noise by jiggling the tube around in the socket and listen for a quiet position of the tube. Just use a thick towel or similar - these tubes get really hot!
I have avoided expensive cables etc but I did find better bass definition with an inexpensive (~$10) 14 gauge “hospital grade” power cord from Amazon.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 28, 2020)

wenbinbin2010 said:


> I searched through the thread and found some vague answers, but can someone reiterate, if I have a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter, what voltage should I select if I'm adapting 12J5s? 6V or 12V?
> 
> I have a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter and have always run that at 6V with no issues. I've never attempted running those at 12V (and past posts seem to suggest against running the 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter at 12V).



You want to use 12V.  The first number in the tube model type _typically_ tells you the heater voltage.  In the case of the 12AU7, the heaters can be wired in series to take 12V or in parallel to take 6V.  For 12J5, use the 12V switch.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

@2359glenn I finally got my hands on one of the very rare 4V 1A tubes I have been hunting, with no coating just how you like, British Mazda AC/HL.  These will be driver tubes in my 6A5G amplifier.  Who knows when I will get them from overseas, can't wait to listen


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> @2359glenn I finally got my hands on one of the very rare 4V 1A tubes I have been hunting, with no coating just how you like, British Mazda AC/HL.  These will be driver tubes in my 6A5G amplifier.  Who knows when I will get them from overseas, can't wait to listen


Beauties!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jul 28, 2020)

They sure are @chrisdrop !  And not cheap, there are a bunch of other weirdos like me looking for these, decided I just need to go for it and bid high this time.

Here is some info: http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaj0200.htm

And the datasheet: http://www.r-type.org/pdfs/ac-hl.pdf

These are a near-equivalent to the MH4 and REN904 with an amplification factor (mu) of 35.

They also were made in a black ribbed plate version, which I believe is later construction, it is also on my wish list.....


----------



## gibosi (Jul 28, 2020)

Velozity said:


> Just received these Sylvania 6J5G today so after about an hour warm-up I gave them a listen after pulling out my GEC L63.
> 
> Why...do...I...like...these...better...than...the...L63??  It can't be so, surely I am mistaken.  First impressions can't be trusted in this hobby right?  I must try again tomorrow (and the next day, and so on...)
> 
> ...



I see that you are using a GEC rectifier. It's been my experience that when using a GEC rectifier, running GEC drivers and/or output tubes is sometimes too much GEC. So I am not surprised that the Sylvania 6J5 sound better than the GEC L63. With that rectifier, you already have enough GEC. lol 

As to dating, Z and V represent three-month intervals. Further, these are shipping dates, not manufacturing dates. So 1Z represents the period May 1, 1941 through Aug 1, 1941. And 0V represents the period Aug 1, 1940 through Nov 1, 1940. Obviously they were manufactured some time before they were labeled, boxed and shipped.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I see that you are using a GEC rectifier. It's been my experience that when using a GEC rectifier, running GEC drivers and/or output tubes is sometimes too much GEC. So I am not surprised that the Sylvania 6J5 sound better than the GEC L63. With that rectifier, you already have enough GEC. lol
> 
> As to dating, Z and V represent three-month intervals. Further, these are shipping dates, not manufacturing dates. So 1Z represents the period May 1, 1941 through Aug 1, 1941. And 0V represents the period Aug 1, 1940 through Nov 1, 1940. Obviously they were manufactured some time before they were labeled, boxed and shipped.


At least I was not too far off LOL. Which letters are used for the other two quarters and what do they correspond to?
Another OPUS scheme?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> At least I was not too far off LOL. Which letters are used for the other two quarters and what do they correspond to?
> Another OPUS scheme?



Yes, it's similar to the OPUS scheme.

The other two letters are T, representing Nov 1 through Feb 1, and N, respresenting Feb 1 through May 1. This scheme was used by Sylvania between 1939 and about 1947.


----------



## mordy

I have an Arcturus 6N7G that has the codes
                              N 4
                              R 4
on it. It is definitively a 30's to early 40's tube but I can't figure out the dates. Any suggestions?
This tube came out in 1936 and Arcturus went bankrupt in the early 40's. My guess is between 1936 - 1942.
The Arcturus name continued into the 60's but only as rebrander.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I have an Arcturus 6N7G that has the codes
> N 4
> R 4
> on it. It is definitively a 30's to early 40's tube but I can't figure out the dates. Any suggestions?
> ...



Sorry, but I have no information on Arcturus date codes, so I can't help you. We know that the 6N7G was introduced in 1936 and Arcturus ceased operations in 1941. And until we can find the key to the date codes used by Arcturus, I think your guess is as close as we can get.


----------



## mordy

We have to do a little creative thinking....
N 4 = April 1940
R 4 = Rare, very
Sounds logical, no?

Can you weigh in on British pre-war or WW2 tubes? AMERTY means American Type. A M means Air Ministry. AnM means what? NAPL101 means what?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> We have to do a little creative thinking....
> N 4 = April 1940
> R 4 = Rare, very
> Sounds logical, no?
> ...



I'm don't have any information about AnM and NAPL101. Sorry....


----------



## Velozity

I've got some better pictures comparing the 6J5G and 6J5GT construction.  They look to be the same except for the top micas.  I'll post these pics in the 6J5 thread as well.


----------



## GDuss

Velozity said:


> I've got some better pictures comparing the 6J5G and 6J5GT construction.  They look to be the same except for the top micas.  I'll post these pics in the 6J5 thread as well.



Nice family photos!!!


----------



## Karnicopia (Jul 29, 2020)

Got in my Fivre Drivre's (6j5) today and I'm really enjoying these. I've started to try and reserve judgement until they get some hours on them because the Cetron's changed so much over time but honestly this pairing is doing something for me. The Fivre's add a bit of energy to the high end and it just balances really well with the Bendix and I guess the amp and the Verite. I had the GEC 6J5's in there for a while but I seem to really like these. Maybe that's just because they sound a bit different but we'll see I really like them so far. They kind of look like baby Bendix too which I'm digging.



mordy said:


> Definitely start with cleaning the pins. I have a Bendix that started to be noisy and I found that I could eliminate the noise by jiggling the tube around in the socket and listen for a quiet position of the tube. Just use a thick towel or similar - these tubes get really hot!
> I have avoided expensive cables etc but I did find better bass definition with an inexpensive (~$10) 14 gauge “hospital grade” power cord from Amazon.



Thanks I had some after your post about this I actually keep a towel under the table in case I do want to check out a noisy tube (or dust before a picture lol I did my best but the rest was getting too close to hot tubes). I did use the towel to slightly push down on the base ring of the noisy tube a bit when I was testing and that did make a difference and quiet it but it would start up again over time and I could never get it to stay so I wasn't sure if one of the pins could be slightly bent out which was stopping the tube from seating fully or if it may just need to be cleaned up. I didn't see anything obvious with a pin being bent but I think this would be slight so I'm just going to focus on cleaning them as a good starting point because I don't want to mess with bending Bendix unless I have to.

Glad to hear you noticed a difference with the hospital cord and those seem really reasonable so I figured why not and I think the one I picked up was around $10 and 14g as well. I've really avoided expensive cables too but I noticed a good improvement with the ace hardware cable and I think that was mainly just the shielding was better and it makes sense that these would need to get clean power to devices that are high precision. I do have pretty well shielded cables between the dac and amp and then I went with optical into my dac which also seemed to help.

I think these have all been good positive steps so far and then I am going to pick up a PI2AES as a source for my dac. These are really reasonably priced too and are basically just an audio board you can buy to attach to a raspberry PI with an enclosure to provide a variety of audio outputs and it seems like there is a selection of audio only OS for the PI which allow you to either stream to it or attach local storage or you could even have it with local storage and running off of battery power but I doubt I would ever take it that far I kind of like the flexibility of using local storage or streaming if needed and you can run separate power supplies for the audio board and the pi board so that is kind of cool to isolate them. You can put the whole kit together for around $250 so it's really reasonable compared to a lot of the streamers or audio sources and the flexibility seems really interesting to me. It will probably take a few weeks because there is a wait for the audio board but I'm excited to try it out and see how it goes.


----------



## mordy

Karnicopia said:


> Got in my Fivre Drivre's (6j5) today and I'm really enjoying these. I've started to try and reserve judgement until they get some hours on them because the Cetron's changed so much over time but honestly this pairing is doing something for me. The Fivre's add a bit of energy to the high end and it just balances really well with the Bendix and I guess the amp and the Verite. I had the GEC 6J5's in there for a while but I seem to really like these. Maybe that's just because they sound a bit different but we'll see I really like them so far. They kind of look like baby Bendix too which I'm digging.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You could try to switch the positions of the Bendix tubes.
What worked best for me was to tilt the tube at a slight angle. It may look a little funny that the tube is not sitting straight in the socket but I solved that by not looking at the tubes lol.


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> You could try to switch the positions of the Bendix tubes.
> What worked best for me was to tilt the tube at a slight angle. It may look a little funny that the tube is not sitting straight in the socket but I solved that by not looking at the tubes lol.


Sometimes I get noise in one of my Bendix tubes. Resting a paperback book on top for a little while usually silences it.


----------



## Karnicopia

mordy said:


> You could try to switch the positions of the Bendix tubes.
> What worked best for me was to tilt the tube at a slight angle. It may look a little funny that the tube is not sitting straight in the socket but I solved that by not looking at the tubes lol.





chrisdrop said:


> Sometimes I get noise in one of my Bendix tubes. Resting a paperback book on top for a little while usually silences it.


Thanks that is exactly what is happening it's like if I put slight downward pressure it goes silent but then it would come back after a bit so I may try different positions just to see if that helps or I may try out the book method too as that seems safer than messing with the base now that I know it needs that bit of downward pressure. I am going to try and clean the pins because I figure that is good practice but I think these ideas are where I'll go next if that doesn't work.


----------



## chrisdrop

Karnicopia said:


> Thanks that is exactly what is happening it's like if I put slight downward pressure it goes silent but then it would come back after a bit so I may try different positions just to see if that helps or I may try out the book method too as that seems safer than messing with the base now that I know it needs that bit of downward pressure. I am going to try and clean the pins because I figure that is good practice but I think these ideas are where I'll go next if that doesn't work.


For me, sometimes proximity to the power transformer exacerbates microphonic/noisy tubes more. You might put it on the other side of the amp?

I have done all the remediation steps ala "Tube Doctor @mordy" (clean pins, soldering iron heat up pins, self adhesive silicone tape, etc). I haven't sorted it however. It is, bearable and my book solution is sufficient, a minor annoyance at worst.  I have 2 pairs of Bendix and there is 1 noisier tube in each pair. Also, the "dummy plug" in my XLR socket helps lower the noise floor. To check if that helps, if you have a 2nd pair of headphones, try to plug them into your 2nd headphone jack (you have 1 of each 1/4" and XLR presumably). This is @Zachik's trick and if you have slight noise, it might fade enough into the background with this hack.


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> This is @Zachik's trick and if you have slight noise, it might fade enough into the background with this hack.


That was a great accidental discovery!!
Between that, and my GOTL tube compatibility table - I am very happy I can contribute back to this great Glenn fan club


----------



## mordy

Maybe a silly question: Why not combine the quiet tubes from each pair?


----------



## Karnicopia (Jul 31, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> For me, sometimes proximity to the power transformer exacerbates microphonic/noisy tubes more. You might put it on the other side of the amp?
> 
> I have done all the remediation steps ala "Tube Doctor @mordy" (clean pins, soldering iron heat up pins, self adhesive silicone tape, etc). I haven't sorted it however. It is, bearable and my book solution is sufficient, a minor annoyance at worst.  I have 2 pairs of Bendix and there is 1 noisier tube in each pair. Also, the "dummy plug" in my XLR socket helps lower the noise floor. To check if that helps, if you have a 2nd pair of headphones, try to plug them into your 2nd headphone jack (you have 1 of each 1/4" and XLR presumably). This is @Zachik's trick and if you have slight noise, it might fade enough into the background with this hack.



I will try out the position in relation to the transformer that makes a lot of sense and I will also check out the headphone trick Zachik had suggested I would probably like to make a plug as well but I'll try it out with headphones first. Someone on the Verite thread was saying it's better to turn on a tube amp with a load attached but there is also advice to not have your headphone in when you turn on your amp. I think the consensus ended up being you wouldn't want your headphone plugged in when you power on but you also don't want to leave the amp running for long with nothing plugged in so you should plug in your headphone rather quickly. I have no idea how true any of this was and it probably depends on how the amp was designed I'm still learning a lot of this I just follow L0rdgwyn's advice to turn on the amp and then plug in my headphone which doesn't really contradict any of this. I think Zachik's resistive dummy plug kind of solves both problems in that you don't have a open circuit when you power up the amp but you also aren't risking your headphones. I'll try it out with two headphones and see how it goes.

Overall I never really had a matched pair of Bendix I had just picked up the Tung Sol 5998 GEC 6j5 so I didn't want to spend too much and I had picked up two single Bendix for relatively cheap separately and then I liked the sound so much I picked up a backup. Now I am running with the quiet pair and it's silent but I'd like to see if I can figure out how to get that third tube quiet if possible but if not I'll use it as a way to diagnose noise in the rest of my system it seems like it's been effective with this. Where it started it was quiet most of the time but the noise would randomly start up and was at the point it was annoying during music if it was a quiet part of the song. Just switching between different outlets seemed to help but this wasn't anything earth shattering but it did help so I think it was a good step and then switching to the more shielded power cord was really significant and basically knocked it down to the point where I would only hear it if nothing was playing and I'd wager Zachik's trick would knock it down to where I couldn't hear it or it would be so low it wouldn't really matter I'll try that out and see I'm interested to build one but I'll just check with headphones first. I should get the hospital power cord in soon also and I can see if that helps further but even if it just works similarly to the ace cord I'll be happy and I'm not expecting too big of a difference because the ace cable is really overbuilt but we'll see.


----------



## Zachik

Karnicopia said:


> I think Zachik's resistive dummy plug kind of solves both problems in that you don't have a open circuit when you power up the amp but you also aren't risking your headphones.


All I can say is the 1/4" dummy load plug (courtesy of @chrisdrop for the professional looking execution!!) never left my GOTL since I got it   
No idea whether or not it helps extend the life of the amp / transformer (@2359glenn can comment on that theory), but it made a huge impact on lowering the noise floor!


----------



## mordy

If you want to have a set of headphones plugged in when you  turn on the amp, you could use an inexpensive set such as what they give away on the airlines or similar.
IMHO it is always a good idea to first use a sacrificial set when starting a listening session - if something goes wrong and you blow an expensive driver it is very unpleasant on many levels.....


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Maybe a silly question: Why not combine the quiet tubes from each pair?


I have 2 matched pairs. I have used the quiet one from each. Probably psychosomatic, but I prefer one of the matched pairs, as long as I keep the occasional hum tame.  I am not really so up on how/why the matched pairs are "better" (channel balance?), so I do assume it is just something I made up one day !


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> If you want to have a set of headphones plugged in when you  turn on the amp, you could use an inexpensive set such as what they give away on the airlines or similar.
> IMHO it is always a good idea to first use a sacrificial set when starting a listening session - if something goes wrong and you blow an expensive driver it is very unpleasant on many levels.....



I don't ever have headphones plugged in when I turn on or off the amp, not even sacrificial ones.  I only use sacrificial headphones when doing something new, like using a new tube.  But how critical is it to get headphones plugged in asap after turning on?  In other words, should they be plugged in asap to present a load to the amplifier quickly after startup?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Has anybody heard from Glenn recently?  His last post was a month ago.  Starting to become a little worried.


----------



## audiofest2018

Xcalibur255 said:


> Has anybody heard from Glenn recently?  His last post was a month ago.  Starting to become a little worried.


I did get a message back from Glenn the other day this week.  Don't want to speak for him but he seems to be very busy at his new job.


----------



## Xcalibur255

audiofest2018 said:


> I did get a message back from Glenn the other day this week.  Don't want to speak for him but he seems to be very busy at his new job.



That very understandable.  Just glad that nothing is wrong.


----------



## NickT23

Xcalibur255 said:


> That very understandable.  Just glad that nothing is wrong.


You  sound like you are worried for someone. He must mean alot to you


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> Has anybody heard from Glenn recently?  His last post was a month ago.  Starting to become a little worried.



Same here, he has not been very active in this thread, but I am assuming he is being bombarded at his new job, plus everyday life things after the the big move.


----------



## Zachik

NickT23 said:


> You  sound like you are worried for someone. He must mean alot to you


I have semi-jokingly referred to this thread as "Glenn's fan club"... I think I speak on behalf of anyone that ever dealt with Glenn and/or bought an amp from him:
Glenn is a great guy and an artist amp designer and builder! We all love him, and his invaluable contribution to this Head-Fi community.

So... yes, he means a lot to many of us!


----------



## robo24

Also got a reply from him this week. As has been mentioned before here, he moved and started a new job right away and has needed time to create his new set up.


----------



## NickT23

Zachik said:


> I have semi-jokingly referred to this thread as "Glenn's fan club"... I think I speak on behalf of anyone that ever dealt with Glenn and/or bought an amp from him:
> Glenn is a great guy and an artist amp designer and builder! We all love him, and his invaluable contribution to this Head-Fi community.
> 
> So... yes, he means a lot to many of us!


I wish I mean alot to many of you people as well. Am not sure if he mean alot to me. I hope  so


----------



## maxpudding

audiofest2018 said:


> I did get a message back from Glenn the other day this week.  Don't want to speak for him but he seems to be very busy at his new job.



Glad that he messaged you, I guess he’s still too busy at his new work place. We all are little concerned about him when his last post was about a month ago. I hope he’s well and safe.


----------



## Karnicopia (Aug 1, 2020)

I was just thinking it was a while since I saw anything from Glenn so I'm glad to hear that he's doing well. I've been waiting to see if the high end on the Fivre 6j5's starts to bother me over time but I am really loving this combination with the Bendix 6080 I think it's my favorite sounding combination of tubes. It adds just the right amount to the high end that makes things sound livelier and engaging and I'm really enjoying them and it's sounding like the right balance to me with this setup and headphones. We'll see what happens when I switch back to the gec but so far the Fivre's are sounding great to me. I'm really enjoying this album in particular.


----------



## chrisdrop

I have kept these AnM 6J7Gs in the amp since arrival. Today, I added this 1947 Fivre 6N7G to the mix. It was a bit noisy, so I took it out and re-cleaned the pins, then took the soldering iron and a touch of fresh solder to the pins. GEC 6080s driving.

Inspired by @Karnicopia's Fivres comment & recalling, I believe it was @JazzVinyl who really liked the 6J7+6N7 combo, I thought to give it a go. Right now, the combo is rocking good! I think they compliment one another nicely.

I think I may have _quieted_ a somewhat noisy 6N7G, but not clear yet if I have _silenced_ it... More on that front soon. If it is not silent, I may try to clean out the old solder from the pins more thoroughly and add fully fresh solder. 






Listening to this at the moment:


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> I have kept these AnM 6J7Gs in the amp since arrival. Today, I added this 1947 Fivre 6N7G to the mix. It was a bit noisy, so I took it out and re-cleaned the pins, then took the soldering iron and a touch of fresh solder to the pins. GEC 6080s driving.
> 
> Inspired by @Karnicopia's Fivres comment & recalling, I believe it was @JazzVinyl who really liked the 6J7+6N7 combo, I thought to give it a go. Right now, the combo is rocking good! I think they compliment one another nicely.
> 
> ...




I think it says quite a bit about those AnM 6J7G's that you made it this long using them without anything in the SN7 slot.

And as you mentioned, it was @JazzVinyl that told me about the 6J7 and 6N7 combination.  Up until recently, I had really only spent time using 6J7's with a single 6N7.  Briefly had a pair of 6J5's with a pair of 6J7's, and for some reason didn't like that dual-dual combination.  I don't know why that was, something about it wasn't working for me at that point, and I described the sound as confusing.  But either that specific combination wasn't good or maybe I'm just older now (I won't claim to be wiser) because I've had dual 6J7's with dual 12J5's running for almost 2 weeks now and it's working.  Great tone, good space, definitely has a "fun" element to it.  This is with dual 6080's, (Sylvania).  The 12J5's are glass RCA and the 6J7's are metal RCA.  This combo works with both Aeolus and the HD650. 

Soon I'll have a few more pairs of 6J7's from different manufacturers, so will see how this dual 6J5-dual 6J7 combination holds up.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I am now looking at 6J7s myself, and a few other near equivalents.  I will have to comb the thread and see which are getting the most favorable reviews, I wonder if the same impressions hold up while run as pentodes 

Here is an article I came across, "The 6J7 Fraternity", it goes over the history and development of the 6J7 and its variants.  The 6C6 is an interesting alternative with a 6-pin base.

https://nzvrshome.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/the-6j7-fraternity.pdf


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am now looking at 6J7s myself, and a few other near equivalents.  I will have to comb the thread and see which are getting the most favorable reviews, I wonder if the same impressions hold up while run as pentodes
> 
> Here is an article I came across, "The 6J7 Fraternity", it goes over the history and development of the 6J7 and its variants.  The 6C6 is an interesting alternative with a 6-pin base.
> 
> https://nzvrshome.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/the-6j7-fraternity.pdf



That's a great article.  I like the title of Figure 2 "Brothers under the glass"   .  

There are also the Visseaux 6J7MG that @chrisdrop posted about recently (a few pages back), and these don't look like any of the others in the photos.  The metal shape is different.

These are the 6J7's I've been using lately with the cool eagle logo, they look like the left-most ones in Figure 3:


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 2, 2020)

GDuss said:


> That's a great article.  I like the title of Figure 2 "Brothers under the glass"   .
> 
> There are also the Visseaux 6J7MG that @chrisdrop posted about recently (a few pages back), and these don't look like any of the others in the photos.  The metal shape is different.
> 
> These are the 6J7's I've been using lately with the cool eagle logo, they look like the left-most ones in Figure 3:



The Visseaux 6J7MG are very similar in external construction to the 6J5MG that I own, that construction is specific to French-made Visseaux / Philips / Neotron, I think I will give them a go at some point.  The metallized 6J7 seem easy to find, maybe I will try them first, thanks!  Ordering some 6C6 as well.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am now looking at 6J7s myself, and a few other near equivalents.  I will have to comb the thread and see which are getting the most favorable reviews, I wonder if the same impressions hold up while run as pentodes
> 
> Here is an article I came across, "The 6J7 Fraternity", it goes over the history and development of the 6J7 and its variants.  The 6C6 is an interesting alternative with a 6-pin base.
> 
> https://nzvrshome.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/the-6j7-fraternity.pdf


For a while I was running EL32 with adapters in the C3g sockets and I discovered that the 6J7 had the same pinout and ordered some. I like the 6C5 metal tubes and the 6J7 is supposed to be the "donor" to the 6C5 that uses parts of the 6J7. Being all metal with an anode cap there is practically no demand for these tubes and they are priced accordingly.
Have tried GE, Raytheon, Sylvania,  and RCA with the nod going to the RCAs - YMMV.
You may want to take a look at the EL32 straight glass tubes - extremely well built and very inexpensive but I prefer the 6J7.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> For a while I was running EL32 with adapters in the C3g sockets and I discovered that the 6J7 had the same pinout and ordered some. I like the 6C5 metal tubes and the 6J7 is supposed to be the "donor" to the 6C5 that uses parts of the 6J7. Being all metal with an anode cap there is practically no demand for these tubes and they are priced accordingly.
> Have tried GE, Raytheon, Sylvania,  and RCA with the nod going to the RCAs - YMMV.
> You may want to take a look at the EL32 straight glass tubes - extremely well built and very inexpensive but I prefer the 6J7.



Thanks, mordy, maybe I will try the RCAs.  I did own the EL32 for a time when I had the GOTL, they are nice sounding tubes and they are dirt cheap.  However, they are an output pentode so a bit aggressive for my use case!  I do wonder how they would sound in a dedicated amplifier as an output tube...too many tubes to try, not enough time.  I might grab another pair though and experiment with them.


----------



## mordy

Great article from down under! And here is the story I mentioned above about the connection of the 6C5 and 6J7:



I should also add that the Visseaux metal MG tubes are in reality glass tubes with a metal cover - same idea as the later C3g tubes.
In the all metal 6C5/6J5 etc family the only glass found is a disc on the bottom that holds the pins. At one point it was felt that all glass tubes were cheaper to produce and the all metal tubes fell into disuse. On the other hand you can find date codes on the metal tubes from the late 30's all the way into the 70's.


----------



## chrisdrop

chrisdrop said:


> I have kept these AnM 6J7Gs in the amp since arrival. Today, I added this 1947 Fivre 6N7G to the mix. It was a bit noisy, so I took it out and re-cleaned the pins, then took the soldering iron and a touch of fresh solder to the pins. GEC 6080s driving.
> 
> Inspired by @Karnicopia's Fivres comment & recalling, I believe it was @JazzVinyl who really liked the 6J7+6N7 combo, I thought to give it a go. Right now, the combo is rocking good! I think they compliment one another nicely.
> 
> ...




In other news, regarding that Fivre 6N7G (which incidentally has a 1942 tax stamp on it, not 1947 as mentioned earlier); sadly, my first round of efforts were inadequate at quieting it sufficiently. It does sound nice with the 2x 6J7Gs while music is playing, but you can pick up on the noise clearly when it is solo especially. Next, I'll try to do something more like this.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> @2359glenn I finally got my hands on one of the very rare 4V 1A tubes I have been hunting, with no coating just how you like, British Mazda AC/HL.  These will be driver tubes in my 6A5G amplifier.  Who knows when I will get them from overseas, can't wait to listen



Beautiful tubes look like the E424s but the E424s have round plates.

Going to get a direct hit from the hurricane tomorrow morning.
Hooked up the generator and filled it with gas yesterday. Maybe get a day off work?


----------



## whirlwind

Hope things are going well for you Glenn.

Hopefully you will not need to use the generator


----------



## chrisdrop

2359glenn said:


> Beautiful tubes look like the E424s but the E424s have round plates.
> 
> Going to get a direct hit from the hurricane tomorrow morning.
> Hooked up the generator and filled it with gas yesterday. Maybe get a day off work?


Glad to "see" you Glenn. Hope you are staying well.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Beautiful tubes look like the E424s but the E424s have round plates.
> 
> Going to get a direct hit from the hurricane tomorrow morning.
> Hooked up the generator and filled it with gas yesterday. Maybe get a day off work?



I should hope you get the day off, Glenn!  Yes, they are pretty tubes, should have them soon, but I am in the process of tearing apart that amp, making some changes and powder coating the chassis, so they will not get any listening time until it is put back together.

I should probably post these on my DIY thread, but since people are trying out pentodes in the GOTL, I will post them here  these are the tubes I will be using with NFB in my 801A A2 amplifier, Mullard EF37A.  One doesn't seem to test very well, but I got 'em cheap, have some others on the way that are well-matched, just need one for testing purposes!  Should get to it Thursday.  These are similar to the 6J7G but can take a higher B+ and screen supply, up to 550V.


----------



## petervenkman

Glenn, I sent you a PM. You were building an OTL for me a couple years back and I never heard back from you. Hoping I can still get ahold of it.


----------



## 2359glenn

L0rdGwyn said:


> I should hope you get the day off, Glenn!  Yes, they are pretty tubes, should have them soon, but I am in the process of tearing apart that amp, making some changes and powder coating the chassis, so they will not get any listening time until it is put back together.
> 
> I should probably post these on my DIY thread, but since people are trying out pentodes in the GOTL, I will post them here  these are the tubes I will be using with NFB in my 801A A2 amplifier, Mullard EF37A.  One doesn't seem to test very well, but I got 'em cheap, have some others on the way that are well-matched, just need one for testing purposes!  Should get to it Thursday.  These are similar to the 6J7G but can take a higher B+ and screen supply, up to 550V.



Look like nice tubes and 6J7s sound good the predecessor to the 6SJ7.

Instead of getting the day off we got to work 18hrs.  Power went off at 12:04am 12:10am cat a call the fire department was there had to let them in or they will knock the doors down.
Had to fix circuit boards that got wet and called the fire department. Power came back on at 10:00am had to stay to 6:00pm to make up the work.
Still tired,


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Look like nice tubes and 6J7s sound good the predecessor to the 6SJ7.
> 
> Instead of getting the day off we got to work 18hrs.  Power went off at 12:04am 12:10am cat a call the fire department was there had to let them in or they will knock the doors down.
> Had to fix circuit boards that got wet and called the fire department. Power came back on at 10:00am had to stay to 6:00pm to make up the work.
> Still tired,



That is nuts Glenn, sorry for the long hours, I hope they will compensate you for the extra time.  Sounds like you are keeping that building upright, literally!  Maybe already time to ask for a raise...just returned from a harrowing night shift myself.  COVID has made healthcare 10x more fun, I tell you what.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

L0rdGwyn said:


> COVID has made healthcare 10x more fun, I tell you what.



Or more monotonous with the same patients and management. And overall more stressful with the thought of getting sick (or asymptomatic) and exposing your whole family. Maybe sometimes more fun. Still more exciting to come home to my GOTL and Verite Open combo!


----------



## Xcalibur255

That sounds like a long frustrating day.  Did the storm take the windows out?  I can't think of how else water would get in electronics like that.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

wenbinbin2010 said:


> Or more monotonous with the same patients and management. And overall more stressful with the thought of getting sick (or asymptomatic) and exposing your whole family. Maybe sometimes more fun. Still more exciting to come home to my GOTL and Verite Open combo!



Ah it was sarcasm, definitely not more fun, but I suppose the experience is different for everyone depending on what you do.


----------



## mordy

Meet a new kid on the block:
















There are only 13,000 types of vacuum tubes. Here is an unusual tube that a friend on a hunch suggested to try - the 6Z7 (really a 6Z7G ). It is a high mu Quiescent Push Pull dual triode designed for class B operation. It has a shared cathode and has the same pinout as the 6N7/ECC31 and requires an adapter for use in the 6SN7 socket in the GOTL.
Very little information is available about this tube - it seems that it was designed for use in car radios in the late 30's. The GOTL operates in class A, and no curve tracers were available to see how this tube behaves in class A.
The tube I acquired is an RCA from the fall of 1940 and it was very inexpensive, fully meeting my buying criteria of $8 or less including shipping and tax. 
So with trepidation I put in the tube and turned on the amp being fully ready to hit the power button again if anything untoward happens. (I believe that the GOTL power button with the lit up blue ring is originally made for use with elevators - heavy duty and designed to last. {The on/off push switch on my Tandberg 3006A amp just broke, luckily in the on position - have to yank the power cord out of the wall plug to shut it off}).
Well, there is sound.  There was a question how well it will work since it is meant to be biased at 0 grid volts or positive grid voltage. Typical class A amplifier stages like in the GOTL are biased with negative grid voltages, so not sure if the 6Z7 will conduct current.
But it actually seems to behave like a regular tube and volume is also set to normal levels - it sounds pretty good just on it's own without any reinforcements.





I assume that the 6Z7G has been sleeping for almost 80 years so we have to give it a little time to wake up fully although it appears alert and alive....
Disclaimer: I don't understand any of the technical quotes above - consider them for reference and for the cognoscenti.
Will report more on the sound when the tube has accumulated more time.
In the very beginning it sounded mellow, but afterwards it is starting to sound bright. Bass, midrange and treble are quite good as well as detail and soundstage, but there is a sharp harsh edge to the sound.
Hopefully it will go away after further burn-in; it actually sounds quite good now after some 8 hours when I plugged in the 2xTFK EL11 in addition to the 2xBendix 6080WB.
Hard to spell quiecsent and pronounce it:

qui·es·cent
/kwēˈesnt,kwīˈesnt/
Learn to pronounce

_adjective_

in a state or period of inactivity or dormancy.
Here is a tube reference:

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0349.ht

Have fun!


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> There are only 13,000 types of vacuum tubes. Here is an unusual tube that a friend on a hunch suggested to try - the 6Z7 (really a 6Z7G ). It is a high mu Quiescent Push Pull dual triode designed for class B operation. It has a shared cathode and has the same pinout as the 6N7/ECC31 and requires an adapter for use in the 6SN7 socket in the GOTL.


Will add to my compatibility table *if/when we get Glenn's thumb up*.
Otherwise, and especially with your disclaimers, I am a little hesitant... Last thing I ever want is for someone to follow my compatibility table and damage his praised GOTL


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Will add to my compatibility table *if/when we get Glenn's thumb up*.
> Otherwise, and especially with your disclaimers, I am a little hesitant... Last thing I ever want is for someone to follow my compatibility table and damage his praised GOTL


Agree - I asked Glenn and I am waiting for his answer.


----------



## maxpudding

L0rdGwyn said:


> That is nuts Glenn, sorry for the long hours, I hope they will compensate you for the extra time.  Sounds like you are keeping that building upright, literally!  Maybe already time to ask for a raise...just returned from a harrowing night shift myself.  COVID has made healthcare 10x more fun, I tell you what.



Take care LG, COVID is really scary, there’s a new cluster of a suspected super-spreader COVID strain here in my country after they relaxed the lockdown a bit. A guy came back from overseas didn’t follow the home quarantine order and now the number of infected persons from that particular area is rapidly increasing. Hopefully they could get it under control..


----------



## Xcalibur255

@mordy 

This sounds very similar to the 6E6.  That tube is also designed to be used primarily in car radios.  If I remember correctly it has a 7-pin base.  I tried these in the OTL for Glenn years ago as a driver substitute for the 6SN7 and thought they sounded bad.  Maybe I didn't give them enough time, it was a long time ago now and I don't have them anymore.


----------



## gibosi (Aug 6, 2020)

mordy said:


> Agree - I asked Glenn and I am waiting for his answer.



Similarly, I run pairs of EL42's, with 0.2 amp heaters, (in the C3g sockets) which were designed for car radios or equipment with low power consumption and/or smaller output power demand. They work fine and sound great.


----------



## mordy

The 6Z7 has an octal base and is plug and play with a 6N7 to 6SN7 adapter (same as used for ECC31).
The sound has improved and there is much less of an edge to the sound. The bass is nice and meaty and overall good detailed sound on the bright side.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

_Cross-post from the 6J5 tube rolling thread. Highly recommend checking out 2x6J5 variants adapted to 6SN7! _

"I've joined the weird-looking adapter camp...I wish someone had told me about these adapters before I started out with a bunch of 12**7, 6922, and 5670 adapters! I guess I got those because I had some good NOS variants from past amps, but I just rolled these RCA 12J5GTs and I'm blown away. $20 total for the pair, and already better than any other tube variant I've rolled. I also picked up the Sylvania 12J5GTs that were linked earlier in the thread, as well as a pair of Tung-Sol 12J5GTs. The RCA pair beats both hands down. There's a new unexplainable sense of realism with these RCAs that the other tubes don't give me. It's not just clarity, but really does more natural, realistic, life-like, etc. I also have a pair of GEC L63s that I'm saving to roll, but I might stock up on more of these RCA 12J5s..."


----------



## mordy

With the same adapter you could indulge yourself with 6C5 and 6J5 metal tubes that cost much less than the 12J5GT tubes. RCA, GE, Tung Sol and Ken-Rad all sound good  -  maybe even better than the 12J5.
The only drawback is no tube glow and sometimes a little rust that does not affect the sound.
As always, YMMV, but well worth a few dollars to try.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> With the same adapter you could indulge yourself with 6C5 and 6J5 metal tubes that cost much less than the 12J5GT tubes. RCA, GE, Tung Sol and Ken-Rad all sound good  -  maybe even better than the 12J5.
> The only drawback is no tube glow and sometimes a little rust that does not affect the sound.
> As always, YMMV, but well worth a few dollars to try.



I got what look like the same tubes as this a few weeks ago, RCA 12J5GT, in the box labeled as Bendix (but says RCA on the tube), and also from 1942.  I've spent probably 2 weeks with them in the SN7 slot now (as a pair using an adapter) and I actually think I like them better than their metal 6J5 cousins.  These are the only glass RCA J5 tubes I have, but I have too many metal version to count, including several that are right around the same years as the 12J5GT.  They have the same characteristics as the metal 6J5 (nicely described by @wenbinbin2010 ), I just think the 12J5GTs have a bit more of what I like about the metal 6J5s.  Yes, they were more expensive, but I am ok with $20 for the pair.


----------



## UntilThen

Haven't been on here for ages. Saw some love for the 6bx7s. Great sounding tubes. All six of them and a driver. I hope @paramesh is enjoying his GOTL. He bought all of my GEC 6as7g, GEC U52. I think the GOTL is very photogenic and sounds great. Enjoy.

From an old archive.


----------



## paramesh

@UntilThen  thanks for chiming in !!~!

yes now am set for life .. with zillion configurations and now all the holy grails in my chest of tubes 
even recently scored  the superb and much sought after Tungsol BGRP as a matched pair !

it has been an interesting shoot out between the Slyavania 6SN7 metal base and the Tungsol ..

i been working on a personal matrix for driver and power tube configurations that pair best with various  favourite dynamics - 
from the VC ( nothing like the ZMF when it comes to tubes ) and the HD6 Series 
this exercise over the last 2 months  has been a delightful and amazing experience ..

its clear to me ...A great OTL amp is like nice canvas which allows play of tubes and very responsive to tube rolling..
the GOTL is the only amp in experience which i have seen so responsive to tube roll and subtle changes 

the journey has just begin ,


----------



## chrisdrop

Anyone know how to date these? They are Marconi Osram 6J5Gs. They look physically identical (inasmuch as I can see inside them), but the text is more worn off on one)

The text looks like 7A 4138, but I am not sure if that is even date related. 






The only other markings on the other side are only very faintly visible on the left tube. I believe that is the "Made & Patented in England".


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 8, 2020)

Sharing a little DIY side project I have been working on the last few days.

I have @whirlwind 's GOTL on hand for some surgical modifications.  Similar to what I did with my GOTL when I had it, I have replaced his loctal sockets for the C3g with octal sockets set up for 6/12J5.  The heaters for the SN7 socket have been daisy-chained to the new sockets, such that all three are affected by the rear switch, allowing the use of 12J5 as well.

The loctal sockets for the C3g are pretty large, larger than most octals on the market.  We went with Beltons, as they are one of the few that are a drop-in fit without doing any significant metalwork on the chassis.



I offered to make one other change that IME has always had a positive effect on the sound - adding a CCS load to the driver tubes.

Joe decided to give it a try!  So CCS boards were added to the interior.  I adjusted the bias of the SN7 socket such that all of the tubes being used there would remain at happy bias points with the CCS load (ECC31/32/33, 6/12/25SN7).



Waiting for a few resistors to arrive to fix the bias, then it will be shipped back home!  Sounds great, taking some time to enjoy the spoils while waiting, really enjoyed the all GEC setup this morning.  I love the look of those damper diodes


----------



## GDuss

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sharing a little DIY side project I have been working on the last few days.
> 
> I have @whirlwind 's GOTL on hand for some surgical modifications.  Similar to what I did with my GOTL when I had it, I have replaced his loctal sockets for the C3g with octal sockets set up for 6/12J5.  The heaters for the SN7 socket have been daisy-chained to the new sockets, such that all three are affected by the rear switch, allowing the use of 12J5 as well.
> 
> ...



I've asked you this before, but is it still to early to get in the queue for a "LG-OTL"?


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sharing a little DIY side project I have been working on the last few days.
> 
> I have @whirlwind 's GOTL on hand for some surgical modifications.  Similar to what I did with my GOTL when I had it, I have replaced his loctal sockets for the C3g with octal sockets set up for 6/12J5.  The heaters for the SN7 socket have been daisy-chained to the new sockets, such that all three are affected by the rear switch, allowing the use of 12J5 as well.
> 
> ...


Cool project. I added the CCS to my office-toy Bottlehead Crack last week. I thought the change was great. I was wondering if anyone ever had a CCS in a GOTL, and *poof* there you have it. I bet it will be great; congrats-in-advance @whirlwind.

Aside from the C3G>6J5 mod, did you change any caps et al?


----------



## whirlwind

chrisdrop said:


> Cool project. I added the CCS to my office-toy Bottlehead Crack last week. I thought the change was great. I was wondering if anyone ever had a CCS in a GOTL, and *poof* there you have it. I bet it will be great; congrats-in-advance @whirlwind.
> 
> Aside from the C3G>6J5 mod, did you change any caps et al?




No cap changes


----------



## jmac1516

UntilThen said:


> Haven't been on here for ages. Saw some love for the 6bx7s. Great sounding tubes. All six of them and a driver. I hope @paramesh is enjoying his GOTL. He bought all of my GEC 6as7g, GEC U52. I think the GOTL is very photogenic and sounds great. Enjoy.
> 
> From an old archive.



6bx7s here as well.  Along with the previously mentioned pair of RCA 6c5, everything sounding great!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

GDuss said:


> I've asked you this before, but is it still to early to get in the queue for a "LG-OTL"?



Lol well I have not designed an OTL yet, have mostly been working on SET designs in some form or another.  What was previously my headphone amp is being reworked as a speaker amp, so I will be doing a true headphone amp next.  TBD but what I do know is it will be a parafeed amplifier using the Sowter 8665 OPT, potentially a single-stage "spud" design.  We will see how it goes!



chrisdrop said:


> Cool project. I added the CCS to my office-toy Bottlehead Crack last week. I thought the change was great. I was wondering if anyone ever had a CCS in a GOTL, and *poof* there you have it. I bet it will be great; congrats-in-advance @whirlwind.
> 
> Aside from the C3G>6J5 mod, did you change any caps et al?



No cap changes, as Joe said, still using the Russian PIO coupling caps and Sprague Atom bypass caps.


----------



## 2359glenn (Aug 9, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> Cool project. I added the CCS to my office-toy Bottlehead Crack last week. I thought the change was great. I was wondering if anyone ever had a CCS in a GOTL, and *poof* there you have it. I bet it will be great; congrats-in-advance @whirlwind.
> 
> Aside from the C3G>6J5 mod, did you change any caps et al?



Technically 1/2 of the 6AS7 is used as a CCS for the other 1/2.
Sounds pretty good and no SS in the audio circuit + would require a large heatsink.


----------



## mordy

paramesh said:


> @UntilThen  thanks for chiming in !!~!
> 
> yes now am set for life .. with zillion configurations and now all the holy grails in my chest of tubes
> even recently scored  the superb and much sought after Tungsol BGRP as a matched pair !
> ...


Perhaps you will find the time to share your favorite combinations with us when you have tried some of them...it is truly amazing how many possibilities there are.


----------



## whirlwind

jmac1516 said:


> 6bx7s here as well.  Along with the previously mentioned pair of RCA 6c5, everything sounding great!




Your Verite has some wonderful grain.


----------



## jmac1516

whirlwind said:


> Your Verite has some wonderful grain.



*Thanks. Monkeypod*


----------



## Monsterzero

On tuesday tropical storm Isaias rolled into Long Island. It brought pretty significant gusts of wind and a little light rain,however it wasnt anything drastic. In fact I was outside in the middle of it trying to clear leaves from my pool with little luck. Ive experienced similar winds in Socal with no outages. In Thailand this weather wouldnt even make a blip on the radar. I guess im not in Thailand anymore......
Around 3:30pm the lights started to flicker and then the power went out completely a few minutes later. Judging by the wind and the experiences i have had living in 3rd world countries where severe weather is a nearly weekly event,I figured we'd be without power for an hour or two. certainly not more than six hours.

Well Tuesday turned into wednesday. Wednesday into thursday. Thursday into friday. Friday into saturday. Saturday into today at 10am when finally the electricity came back on.

Hot,humid and dark. No electricity. No A/C. No phone line. No signal for mobile phones. No power to charge anything....and certainly no music.

We lost an entire full sized freezer that was completely stocked with tons of food. Gone. Tossed out.

With the taxes we are charged here,and the prices we pay for electricity(our most recent bill was over a thousand dollars) I expected white glove service and an immediate and effective response. Instead we got nothing. For five days and nights we were on our own with no way to contact the rest of the world.

It is the price one pays when you live in an overpriced Socialist state. I cannot wait to get out of this hellhole called New York.


----------



## mordy

Sorry to hear about your problems. When Sandy hit we were out of electricity for 8 days. The most difficult was coping with Acute Internet Withdrawal Syndrome.
You may be able to file a claim with your local utility and possibly get some money back for the spoiled food.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Sorry to hear about your problems. When Sandy hit we were out of electricity for 8 days. The most difficult was coping with Acute Internet Withdrawal Syndrome.
> You may be able to file a claim with your local utility and possibly get some money back for the spoiled food.


Apparently we needed to take photos to prove we had food in the freezer. Of course we found this out after the fact. Lesson learned.
I spoke to one of my neighbors the other day who was here for Sandy. The outage for Sandy was shorter than what we just went through. Unbelievable.

Im so livid! Sorry for venting.


----------



## mordy (Aug 9, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Will add to my compatibility table *if/when we get Glenn's thumb up*.
> Otherwise, and especially with your disclaimers, I am a little hesitant... Last thing I ever want is for someone to follow my compatibility table and damage his praised GOTL


Hi Zachik,
Got the answer from Glenn - the 6Z7G will work in the GOTL but he was not sure how it would sound.
Well, I have used it now for some 40 hours + and this is what my impressions are:
The bass is very good and extended and powerful; the treble is on the bright side - good detail.
The mid range is pretty good; BUT there is a rough edgy quality to the sound that I could not really filter out with different combinations. It simply lacks sweetness and under the sound microscope sounds gruff and hollow. Mind you, the sound is pretty good, and it is different, but ultimately I prefer a sweeter and more musical presentation.
It was a good try at something unusual and it did not break the bank. A very pretty tube - maybe I will make a headphone hanger out of it....


----------



## Celty

Monsterzero said:


> On tuesday tropical storm Isaias rolled into Long Island. It brought pretty significant gusts of wind and a little light rain,however it wasnt anything drastic. In fact I was outside in the middle of it trying to clear leaves from my pool with little luck. Ive experienced similar winds in Socal with no outages. In Thailand this weather wouldnt even make a blip on the radar. I guess im not in Thailand anymore......
> Around 3:30pm the lights started to flicker and then the power went out completely a few minutes later. Judging by the wind and the experiences i have had living in 3rd world countries where severe weather is a nearly weekly event,I figured we'd be without power for an hour or two. certainly not more than six hours.
> 
> Well Tuesday turned into wednesday. Wednesday into thursday. Thursday into friday. Friday into saturday. Saturday into today at 10am when finally the electricity came back on.
> ...


Sorry to hear about your power outage travails. My worst one was from a severe ice storm during a very cold winter. A huge tree branch crunched my pickup, and the whole area had no electricity for 5 days. Not only was it dark, but no heat and made it a real treat. A gas oven had to be used - risky but better than freezing.

And yes your "socialist New York.. hellhole" would not me my choice to live in either, but hey - it could be worse. You could be in Seattle or Portland!


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> Im so livid! Sorry for venting.


You are definitely entitled for the occasional vent here! Sorry to hear about what you had to go through buddy...


----------



## Monsterzero (Aug 9, 2020)

Celty said:


> Sorry to hear about your power outage travails. My worst one was from a severe ice storm during a very cold winter. A huge tree branch crunched my pickup, and the whole area had no electricity for 5 days. Not only was it dark, but no heat and made it a real treat. A gas oven had to be used - risky but better than freezing.
> 
> And yes your "socialist New York.. hellhole" would not me my choice to live in either, but hey - it could be worse. You could be in Seattle or Portland!


Yeah socialism is closing in all around. We were going to move to Arizona but weve been priced out of living in the desert,and the state itself is now deep purple due to Kalifornians moving over.

Now were looking into a state close to where Glenn lives,where i can own acreage w/ land,mineral and lumber rights. Low cost of living,low taxes, and stand your ground rights.
Those SE states have some pretty severe weather there so we will be getting an integrated generator installed.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah socialism is closing in all around. We were going to move to Arizona but weve been priced out of living in the desert,and the state itself is now deep purple due to Kalifornians moving over.
> 
> Now were looking into a state close to where Glenn lives,where i can own acreage w/ land,mineral and lumber rights. Low cost of living,low taxes, and stand your ground rights.
> Those SE states have some pretty severe weather there so we will be getting an integrated generator installed.


I have a son that lives in Phoenix, Arizona. With 115 degree weather he comes to NY/CT/MA for the summer months - too hot.....


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> On tuesday tropical storm Isaias rolled into Long Island. It brought pretty significant gusts of wind and a little light rain,however it wasnt anything drastic. In fact I was outside in the middle of it trying to clear leaves from my pool with little luck. Ive experienced similar winds in Socal with no outages. In Thailand this weather wouldnt even make a blip on the radar. I guess im not in Thailand anymore......
> Around 3:30pm the lights started to flicker and then the power went out completely a few minutes later. Judging by the wind and the experiences i have had living in 3rd world countries where severe weather is a nearly weekly event,I figured we'd be without power for an hour or two. certainly not more than six hours.
> 
> Well Tuesday turned into wednesday. Wednesday into thursday. Thursday into friday. Friday into saturday. Saturday into today at 10am when finally the electricity came back on.
> ...



That is BS it is pathetic how bad the infrastructure is now. I grew up on Long Island and got hit with several hurricanes over 22 years and never did the power go out.
This country has let everything go to s-h-i-t.  I have a generator so the food don't get lost and I can make coffee a addiction we have.
Here I was prepared hade the generator hooked up and full of gas. Didn't think the power would go out as we live 2 blocks from the substation but just incase.
Tuesday at 12:04am out went the power. At 12:10am the company was calling that the fire department was at the plant and we had to let them in or they will knock down the door.
We only live 4 blocks from work.
Did start the generator at home other then coming home for coffee we worked a 18hr day  power came back on at 10:00am.

Ware we used to live in Bullick NC the last hurricane that hit the power went out or 3 days. I thought all was ok we were running on generator.
After 4hrs out goes the phone and internet and no cell because we have a micro cell and get cell through the internet.
The phone company's switch box was about a 1000ft away. In the past when running on copper they sent 48 volts DC through several pairs of wire and the phone a necessity
never went off.  Now that they upgraded to fiberoptic it runs on battery's that only last 4hrs.  This is a improvement??????
One good thing we had TV as we picked up with a antenna.
Then when I got the power bill they charged me for the 3 days a estimated amount for more then I was paying when the power was on. Could never get that fixed
Paid $40 a day for gas for the generator and they charged me for the power I wasn't receiving


----------



## whirlwind

Sorry to hear that you had to go through all that MZ.

Getting insurance to pay for anything anymore is like having a root canal. at times you just want to tell them to stick it!


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> That is BS it is pathetic how bad the infrastructure is now. I grew up on Long Island and got hit with several hurricanes over 22 years and never did the power go out.
> This country has let everything go to s-h-i-t.  I have a generator so the food don't get lost and I can make coffee a addiction we have.
> Here I was prepared hade the generator hooked up and full of gas. Didn't think the power would go out as we live 2 blocks from the substation but just incase.
> Tuesday at 12:04am out went the power. At 12:10am the company was calling that the fire department was at the plant and we had to let them in or they will knock down the door.
> ...


We might be neighbors in 18 months....

A little too little,too late.

https://1010wins.radio.com/articles/cuomo-directs-state-to-investigate-failed-storm-response


----------



## robo24

Just be glad this natural disaster didn't wipe out 35% of the power on your island for years like it did down the road where I live. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44215651


----------



## Celty

2359glenn said:


> That is BS it is pathetic how bad the infrastructure is now. I grew up on Long Island and got hit with several hurricanes over 22 years and never did the power go out.
> This country has let everything go to s-h-i-t.  I have a generator so the food don't get lost and I can make coffee a addiction we have.
> Here I was prepared hade the generator hooked up and full of gas. Didn't think the power would go out as we live 2 blocks from the substation but just incase.
> Tuesday at 12:04am out went the power. At 12:10am the company was calling that the fire department was at the plant and we had to let them in or they will knock down the door.
> ...


And now an earthquake!


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Hi Zachik,
> Got the answer from Glenn - the 6Z7G will work in the GOTL but he was not sure how it would sound.
> Well, I have used it now for some 40 hours + and this is what my impressions are:
> The bass is very good and extended and powerful; the treble is on the bright side - good detail.
> ...


Added to the table, crediting you @mordy for the find


----------



## maxpudding

Monsterzero said:


> On tuesday tropical storm Isaias rolled into Long Island. It brought pretty significant gusts of wind and a little light rain,however it wasnt anything drastic. In fact I was outside in the middle of it trying to clear leaves from my pool with little luck. Ive experienced similar winds in Socal with no outages. In Thailand this weather wouldnt even make a blip on the radar. I guess im not in Thailand anymore......
> Around 3:30pm the lights started to flicker and then the power went out completely a few minutes later. Judging by the wind and the experiences i have had living in 3rd world countries where severe weather is a nearly weekly event,I figured we'd be without power for an hour or two. certainly not more than six hours.
> 
> Well Tuesday turned into wednesday. Wednesday into thursday. Thursday into friday. Friday into saturday. Saturday into today at 10am when finally the electricity came back on.
> ...



And here I thought having no electricity for a couple of hours to 12 hours must be the bane of living in a third world country. Imagine losing power for dayssss. So sorry to hear that, MZ.


----------



## maxpudding

2359glenn said:


> That is BS it is pathetic how bad the infrastructure is now. I grew up on Long Island and got hit with several hurricanes over 22 years and never did the power go out.
> This country has let everything go to s-h-i-t.  I have a generator so the food don't get lost and I can make coffee a addiction we have.
> Here I was prepared hade the generator hooked up and full of gas. Didn't think the power would go out as we live 2 blocks from the substation but just incase.
> Tuesday at 12:04am out went the power. At 12:10am the company was calling that the fire department was at the plant and we had to let them in or they will knock down the door.
> ...



I’d say they found a way of creatively charging people a lot more.


----------



## 2359glenn

Monsterzero said:


> We might be neighbors in 18 months....
> 
> A little too little,too late.
> 
> https://1010wins.radio.com/articles/cuomo-directs-state-to-investigate-failed-storm-response



Nice
I will send you a PM about some of the weirdness of the south.
Really like the little town I live in now mostly farms everyone friendly. Not much to do but I don't go out much anymore most of what I need is close though.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 10, 2020)

I agree that the  infrastructure is in dire need.

The wife and I miss going out to see live music and going out to eat.....most of the other stuff we have dealt with fairly well in these hard times.
The printing company that I work for is very small, the pandemic has definitely hurt sales....if it can not keep its head above water I am just going to retire.
I think it will be able to hold on for a few more years.


----------



## Monsterzero

2359glenn said:


> Nice
> I will send you a PM about some of the weirdness of the south.
> Really like the little town I live in now mostly farms everyone friendly. Not much to do but I don't go out much anymore most of what I need is close though.


That would be cool. My wife is a born and raised Long Islander and would surely appreciate your perspective. Im a homebody now these days myself,so Im looking forward to a slower pace. Gimme a bunch of dogs,my music and perhaps a local spot to drown some worms and I will be fine.
I have two realtors in the areas were looking already sending me listings. Hopefully in 18 months the prices will still be affordable.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> The wife and I miss going out to see live music and going out to eat


Yeah same,especially the music part. Ive turned my wife onto Blackberry Smoke and now she wants to see them live...(the pre-conditioning for the south has begun)

Love these guys!


----------



## Xcalibur255

A few years back I was without power for 11 days after an early snowstorm dumped 4 feet of snow on us in 48 hours.  It was in the fall too.  Those are devastating because the trees haven't lost their leaves yet so it just destroys everything.  After it's all done you could tell people a tornado when through town and they wouldn't know the difference.  Buildings missing roofs, every tree destroyed........

Then this summer's treat was the baseball sized hail.  Destroyed all my windows in my apartment and some of the things inside that were close enough to those windows to be within smashing range.  Now 3 months later I still do not have any windows, they're just boarded over with plywood still and the ceiling lights drip brown water out of them when it rains because the roof was never repaired either.  Parking lot covered from end to end in broken glass still from all the smashed car windows.  

This year is just one great big mind *** between covid and the surrounds I live in now.


----------



## leftside

After reading these stories, I'm never going to complain again about the rain we get here in the winter. The last time I remember the power being out for an extended time was when I was growing up in England in the 70's. The country was in a downward spiral and run by the unions. Tough to get coal for heat as the coal miners would always be on strike. The hydro/electrical guys would always be on strike as well, so quite often we'd have no power or heat.  Great time for music though - the tough times spawned a lot of bands that I still like today.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah same,especially the music part. Ive turned my wife onto Blackberry Smoke and now she wants to see them live...(the pre-conditioning for the south has begun)
> 
> Love these guys!





Yeah man, these guys are great. One Horse Town is a great song, my wife's favorite. I have three albums..  Holding All the Roses / The Whippoorwill / Find a Light


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> Yeah man, these guys are great. One Horse Town is a great song, my wife's favorite. I have three albums..  Holding All the Roses / The Whippoorwill / Find a Light


They do some killer cover tunes as well. They did a cover of the "The Night They Drove Dixie Down" "Everythings Going to be Alright" and "You Got Lucky"


----------



## chrisdrop

How much do you guys like the Mullard ECC32? I have a chance to get one and I know they are liked, but not sure how much they are liked. Any thoughts welcome.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> How much do you guys like the Mullard ECC32? I have a chance to get one and I know they are liked, but not sure how much they are liked. Any thoughts welcome.



IMO is one of, if not the best, dual triodes ever made.  Not quite a 6SN7 equivalent, it will typically work in 6SN7 circuits like the GOTL, but it is a more current hungry tube with higher gain.


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> I got what look like the same tubes as this a few weeks ago, RCA 12J5GT, in the box labeled as Bendix (but says RCA on the tube), and also from 1942.  I've spent probably 2 weeks with them in the SN7 slot now (as a pair using an adapter) and I actually think I like them better than their metal 6J5 cousins.  These are the only glass RCA J5 tubes I have, but I have too many metal version to count, including several that are right around the same years as the 12J5GT.  They have the same characteristics as the metal 6J5 (nicely described by @wenbinbin2010 ), I just think the 12J5GTs have a bit more of what I like about the metal 6J5s.  Yes, they were more expensive, but I am ok with $20 for the pair.


Hi GDuss,
Always receptive to other people's recommendations, I pulled out a pair of 1946 RCA 12J5GT that I have. When I got them I did not find them special, but decided to try again, now in combination with other tubes than what I used in the past.
Having tried the 6Z7 for a while I felt that I heard some of that grunge with the RCAs as well, but after giving them due time they now sound really good and musical and sweet without anything irritating me.
Don't know if my brain have to readjust or if the GOTL had to readjust itself as well after running a non standard tube.
Is it possible that an amp needs time to readjust after using a certain tube for a while? I felt that way with my Elise/Euforia as well - maybe something to do with a self adjusting bias circuit (don't know if the GOTL has such a circuit).
In any case, it sounds so nice now that I don't want to stop listening even though it is getting (too) late.....


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Hi GDuss,
> Always receptive to other people's recommendations, I pulled out a pair of 1946 RCA 12J5GT that I have. When I got them I did not find them special, but decided to try again, now in combination with other tubes than what I used in the past.
> Having tried the 6Z7 for a while I felt that I heard some of that grunge with the RCAs as well, but after giving them due time they now sound really good and musical and sweet without anything irritating me.
> Don't know if my brain have to readjust or if the GOTL had to readjust itself as well after running a non standard tube.
> ...



Hi Mordy, I'm glad you are enjoying the RCA's.  As you know, I'm a a big fan of the metal 6J5/6C5 from the early to mid-40's, but there is something about these RCA 12J5GT's that I think tops the metal versions.  It's not by much, but enough to want to stick with the glass versions for a while.  

As for readjustments with tube changes, my impression of tubes can be substantially influenced by what tubes I had in before them.  But I've typically attributed that to the set point of my ears and everything downstream of them.  Maybe the amp can change as well, but likely not as much as my auditory circuitry.  There aren't too many things that display as much plasticity as the human nervous system.  A good example is how when you are in a loud environment (e.g. music club or sports stadium), someone can yell directly into your ear and you won't hear them.  If the same person yells into your ear at the same volume, but in a quiet room, you won't enjoy that very much.  Those hair cells in your inner ear are really good at adjusting their set points.


----------



## whirlwind

chrisdrop said:


> How much do you guys like the Mullard ECC32? I have a chance to get one and I know they are liked, but not sure how much they are liked. Any thoughts welcome.



The ECC31/32/33/35 are all very good .....budget comes into play here as they are pretty expensive and there are tons of cheaper tubes, but there is no denying that these are wonderful tubes.


----------



## dminches

If I want to measure the amps and volts a 300B tube is pulling would I use a meter across the 2 heater (large) pins?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

@dminches if you want to measure the DC voltage drop across the pins, use a DMM across the two large pins.  If you want to measure current, that is a bit more tricky.  To measure current directly, the measuring device must be in series with the filament circuit, not easy to do with a DMM, as you would have to disconnect something and put the DMM in series with the filament circuit.  To measure current indirectly, you would have to measure the voltage drop across a known resistance in the filament circuit.  If it is a passive, unregulated filament supply, there may be a resistor in series you can measure the voltage drop across, you then use the resistance and measured voltage to calculate the current by Ohm's Law.

I would only mess around inside the amp if you are confident in doing so, keep in mind one of those 300B pins has 4-500V on it, so alligator clips are a must for measuring with the amplifier turned on, having two hands inside the amp holding probes on the filament pins is a good way to get a nasty shock!  Or inadvertently cause a short if your hand slips.


----------



## gibosi

FYI... For those of us who live in the US and try to purchase tubes from vendors located in Germany.

I just won an auction for a tube located in Germany, but the vendor sent me the following message today:

Shipping from Germany is currently not possible.

The Post (Deutsche Post Brief International) writes:
Current information about the Corona virus:
Due to the increasing spread of the Corona virus and the associated derivation or delivery restrictions, 
delivery to this destination is currently not possible.

What do we want to do?
Cancel purchase and get your money back?
Keep until the "spook" is over and then send off?

I'm not sure what I should do as I'm not at all confident that the situation is going to significantly improve anytime soon, perhaps not until next year...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I received the same type of information on a pair of EL11 I had won from a German seller.  Unfortunately, the seller gave me no options, they simply cancelled my order!  I have been able to get shipments from the UK via Royal Mail and Japan via FedEx, not sure if the same situation is affecting shipping from European countries other than Germany.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> FYI... For those of us who live in the US and try to purchase tubes from vendors located in Germany.
> 
> I just won an auction for a tube located in Germany, but the vendor sent me the following message today:
> 
> ...


DHL from Europe worked great for me twice in the last couple months. Neither was from Germany, but still from the EU...
More expensive, unfortunately, but arrived very fast and it just worked!


----------



## GDuss

I have tubes on the way from Belgium, they should be here in the next day or so.  And some adapters from @Deyan are on their way as well.


----------



## gibosi

Likewise, I have recently received tubes from the UK, China, Spain, Russia and Slovakia...

But maybe I should ask the vendor about using DHL.


----------



## mordy

In the past a French seller offered to ship from Germany since the postage via German Post is much cheaper. Conversely, perhaps the seller can forward the tube to France (or another country) and have it shipped from there.


----------



## whirlwind

I received a concert poster from Germany in May, can't remember how it was shipped though but I remember it took quite a long time too make it here.  The seller did warn me of that due to the pandemic.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi GDuss,
> Always receptive to other people's recommendations, I pulled out a pair of 1946 RCA 12J5GT that I have. When I got them I did not find them special, but decided to try again, now in combination with other tubes than what I used in the past.
> Having tried the 6Z7 for a while I felt that I heard some of that grunge with the RCAs as well, but after giving them due time they now sound really good and musical and sweet without anything irritating me.
> Don't know if my brain have to readjust or if the GOTL had to readjust itself as well after running a non standard tube.
> ...



Hello Mordy, 

I am confident that the Elise circuit did not have an auto-bias circuit    I studied the circuit board that everyone thought was the auto-bias circuit and it provided a DC to DC voltage increase of about 40 volts (adjustable via a small potentiometer).  The power tubes  had 250 volts to the plates and the drivers (fed after this circuit) always had 290 volts to the plates.  

I would bet money that the Felix design was not auto-biasing....

Cheers!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello Glenn Amp Peeps...

It rained today!!  Yeah!  Brought down the wicked upper 90's temperatures we have been having lately!   And....inspired me to fire up the 'heat producing' tube amp   

Went down to the Vinyl Vault to retrieve all my Flora Purim LP's (and anything she sang on).

Carefully adjusted the Glenn compliment to be simple but effective....
I chose a pair of 1970 Mullard 6080's as powers, and my Visseaux 6N7GT NOS from 1953 (with identical innards my 1943 Visseaux 6N7G has).

Turntable -> Glenn -> HP = uncompromised purity....







Really great sounds being heard.

 

Cheers, all....


----------



## Velozity

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Glenn Amp Peeps...
> 
> It rained today!!  Yeah!  Brought down the wicked upper 90's temperatures we have been having lately!   And....inspired me to fire up the 'heat producing' tube amp
> 
> ...




Nice!  I always enjoy your photos.  Your post makes me want to haul my GOTL downstairs and plug into my Schiit Sol.  Problem is I'd have to lay on the floor and listen.  I don't have a chair close enough for my cable to reach.  So, instead I'm up here at the PC enjoying some SRV and DT (wanna guess who that is?). Love the look of the compact Glenn with all ST-type tubes.


----------



## mordy

Velozity said:


> Nice!  I always enjoy your photos.  Your post makes me want to haul my GOTL downstairs and plug into my Schiit Sol.  Problem is I'd have to lay on the floor and listen.  I don't have a chair close enough for my cable to reach.  So, instead I'm up here at the PC enjoying some SRV and DT (wanna guess who that is?). Love the look of the compact Glenn with all ST-type tubes.


I don't have XLR cables - it is difficult to get an extension cable?


----------



## Velozity (Aug 19, 2020)

mordy said:


> I don't have XLR cables - it is difficult to get an extension cable?



I don't have XLR either.  It's no problem to extend my 6.3mm jack, I just don't want to use a cable other than my silver Norne cable.  I'm spoiled .  To get a matching 10ft. 20awg silver extension cable from Norne would cost me as much as the Glenn, lol.  I guess I could slum it if I really wanted...  #firstworldproblems


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 19, 2020)

Velozity said:


> Nice!  I always enjoy your photos.  Your post makes me want to haul my GOTL downstairs and plug into my Schiit Sol.  Problem is I'd have to lay on the floor and listen.  I don't have a chair close enough for my cable to reach.  So, instead I'm up here at the PC enjoying some SRV and DT (wanna guess who that is?). Love the look of the compact Glenn with all ST-type tubes



OMG man, your speaker setup is to die for!!  I want to come over and hang out!  I will bring plenty of Vinyl...!!

Your Glenn all decked out in ST looks superb too!!

I know who SRV is....GT - please do tell!!

After playing all my Flora Purim records, I put on "Return To Forever" if you remember them, from the first 7 years of the 1970's  

Also switched drivers, to the FDD20, which is a weirdo base 12v European version of the 6N7 and I think it does noticeably better with the vinyl source.

Cheers...and tell me who GT is.....


----------



## Velozity

JazzVinyl said:


> OMG man, your speaker setup is to die for!!  I want to come over and hang out!  I will bring plenty of Vinyl...!!
> 
> Your Glenn all decked out in ST looks superb too!!
> 
> ...




Not GT, _D_T. You misread it. I think with the letter change you probably already know ...Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble.

I have two or three Chick Corea and Return to Forever albums myself.  Though for the first 7 years of the '70's I was still a sperm, I have a keen appreciation for the jazz fusion genre.  I have several Weather Report, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Billy Cobham, Herbie Hancock, and Lee Oskar albums as well.  A vinyl listening party sounds nice!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Velozity said:


> Not GT, _D_T. You misread it. I think with the letter change you probably already know ...Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble.
> 
> I have two or three Chick Corea and Return to Forever albums myself.  Though for the first 7 years of the '70's I was still a sperm, I have a keen appreciation for the jazz fusion genre.  I have several Weather Report, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Billy Cobham, Herbie Hancock, and Lee Oskar albums as well.  A vinyl listening party sounds nice!



Ah yes...Double Trouble  

I was a huge Weather Report fan, saw them live once, while you were still a sperm, have all their LP's and bought most again on CD (but in several cases the LP's sound WAY better).  And I have a tremendous amount of all the ones you mentioned,  except Lee Oskar...

Listening to my Kazumi Watanabe LP's now...you would love him, too, if you like all the above Fusion artists 

Cheers and happy listening, V!


----------



## Xcalibur255

The wood Hammond chassis really does make for a swanky OTL build.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Xcalibur255 said:


> The wood Hammond chassis really does make for a swanky OTL build.



I think it is definitely COOL, too!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Still doing the Vinyl, and am exploring tube compliments for Vinyl Specific listening...

Currently enjoying 2x National Union 12J5's and 4x Sylvania Flat Plate 6BL7's...


----------



## gibosi

The Melz 1578 revisited:

Several years ago I picked up a Melz 1578, and at that time, felt that the mid's were too recessed and rather lifeless, and put it aside. Recently, given its steller reputation in some circles, I thought I should try it again. And this time, I tried to find a rectifier that would allow the Melz to live up to its reputation. Success! A Philips GZ34 allows this tube to shine, and I am really liking it now.


----------



## mordy

How does it compare to the Foton with the ladder anode?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> How does it compare to the Foton with the ladder anode?



I've haven't tried to compare them, but from memory, the Foton is a little more forward.


----------



## gibosi (Aug 22, 2020)

Recently, I picked up a few Melz 6H12C. Some vendors claim that it is similar to the 6BL7. However, while the amplification factor is similar, about 17, the heater current is only 0.9amps. Currently, I am running them as drivers, for about an hour each, to be sure they are OK. And to my ears, they have the Melz house sound, similar to the 1578, but it's too early to say more. And also, I have yet to try them as output tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Recently, I picked up a few Melz 6H12C. Some vendors claim that it is similar to the 6BL7. However, while the amplification factor is similar, about 17, the heater current is only 0.9amps. Currently, I am running them as drivers, for about an hour each, to be sure they are OK. And to my ears, they have the Melz house sound, similar to the 1578, but it's too early to say more. And also, I have yet to try them as output tubes.




Nice.  These could be a great find for output tubes


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 23, 2020)

I gotta  give @LOrdGwyn a big kudos   on the surgery to my GOTL

The constant current source is killer in the GOTL just as it is in the GEL3N amp.
the separation of instruments  and vocals is really nice on the LCD-4....11 O'clock on the amp is rockin the LCD-4

Maybe fewer tubes to use, but you feel your are getting the most out of your favorite tubes.....and there is still a gazillion tubes to roll in Glenn's amps   

Giving the Fivre 6C5G tubes a go tonight....I have been listening to the 6/12J5 tubes with the same power tubes to try to get a idea of each. For what it is worth I have totally enjoyed all of the 6J5GT metal base  tubes.... it takes two of these to make one 6SN7, but getting NOS tubes is much easier

Thanks much @LOrdGwyn.

I really wish that I would have bought a few more pairs of RCA 42EC4 damper diodes from Stan, at ESRC... He had these for $2-4 each.

Tubes + a black back round is a beautiful thing. Thanks to Glenn and thanks to Keenan


----------



## chrisdrop

whirlwind said:


> I gotta  give @LOrdGwyn a big kudos   on the surgery to my GOTL
> 
> The constant current source is killer in the GOTL just as it is in the GEL3N amp.
> the separation of instruments  and vocals is really nice on the LCD-4....11 O'clock on the amp is rockin the LCD-4
> ...


That is a great set of mods. I hope you enjoy this leg of your tube exploring journey. 

I've never looked at your amp photos in detail before. Are those 2 "1/2 rectifiers" (not sure if they are really 1/2 wave rectifiers) on the left connected to the transformer? 

While you are going to explore single-triode-land some, today, I've swapped in a double triode input, which I rarely do (and usually 6N7s at that!). Today, I'm running, for the 1st time in recollection with _zero adapters._ 6x Sylvania 6BX7 + a pretty new Mullard ECC32. It even came in a perfect box. So far, lovely indeed.


----------



## whirlwind

chrisdrop said:


> That is a great set of mods. I hope you enjoy this leg of your tube exploring journey.
> 
> I've never looked at your amp photos in detail before. Are those 2 "1/2 rectifiers" (not sure if they are really 1/2 wave rectifiers) on the left connected to the transformer?
> 
> While you are going to explore single-triode-land some, today, I've swapped in a double triode input, which I rarely do (and usually 6N7s at that!). Today, I'm running, for the 1st time in recollection with _zero adapters._ 6x Sylvania 6BX7 + a pretty new Mullard ECC32. It even came in a perfect box. So far, lovely indeed.



Yeah the tubes with the wires coming out of the transformer are my rectifier tubes...they are damper diodes that were use in TV's back in the early 80's.
They are pretty powerful, and Glenn has them in such a way that one of them starts up just a tad before the other. Soft start-up.
He also uses them in his 300B amps, or at least he did at one time.

Enjoy the sound of the ECC32


----------



## gibosi

Mostly Russian with a small taste of Holland to keep things interesting. 

Six 6H12C and one 1578 with a Philips GZ34. Sounds great! 

Gosh, these 6H12C are quiet. I usually have trouble finding four 6BX7 or 6BL7 that play quietly together. (I hate these adapters. Maybe some day I will ask Deyan to build some good ones.) That said these were the first 6 I tried and they are all quiet and play nicely together. And of course it's too soon to conclude that they are "Great" as I've had them in for less than 10 minutes. And who knows what I will think after several weeks. But for now, I am very pleased.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Mostly Russian with a small taste of Holland to keep things interesting.
> 
> Six 6H12C and one 1578 with a Philips GZ34. Sounds great!
> 
> Gosh, these 6H12C are quiet. I usually have trouble finding four 6BX7 or 6BL7 that play quietly together. (I hate these adapters. Maybe some day I will ask Deyan to build some good ones.) That said these were the first 6 I tried and they are all quiet and play nicely together. And of course it's too soon to conclude that they are "Great" as I've had them in for less than 10 minutes. And who knows what I will think after several weeks. But for now, I am very pleased.



Now THAT is a different and interesting roll, @gibosi - will be watching to hear how this story, develops


----------



## Karnicopia

I'm still really enjoying the Fivre 6j5's and Bendix 6080 and I feel like kind of a boring tube roller but I've been going back and listening to recordings for details and I still haven't come across anything where the treble bothered me and it just seems to go right to the edge and give really nice balance. Maybe this would be too bright with different headphones but since ZMF is a bit warm I think everything balances really nice for me and this may be my favorite combination. One of these days I'm going to try the Fivre with other tubes but I haven't been able to bring myself to change anything just kind of enjoying things for a bit. Randomly came across this song and it's sounding nice with these tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 23, 2020)

While @gibosi takes on the new and exciting....I thought I would settle in with the known and comfortable:



KR 6SN7, followed by
KR 6J7 and
4x Sylvania 6BL7 Flat Plates

I am using an old pair of headphones that I used at work for many years.  A pair of KOSS KSC75 that I did the @kramer5150 mods to (long ago) and also adapted them to a Sony headband that had the "temple pads" diy added (kind of like Porta Pros).

And all is sounding very nice!  Listening to:   *Sidsel Endresen*


----------



## JazzVinyl

Karnicopia said:


> I'm still really enjoying the Fivre 6j5's and Bendix 6080 and I feel like kind of a boring tube roller but I've been going back and listening to recordings for details and I still haven't come across anything where the treble bothered me and it just seems to go right to the edge and give really nice balance. Maybe this would be too bright with different headphones but since ZMF is a bit warm I think everything balances really nice for me and this may be my favorite combination. One of these days I'm going to try the Fivre with other tubes but I haven't been able to bring myself to change anything just kind of enjoying things for a bit. Randomly came across this song and it's sounding nice with these tubes.




Synergy with the chosen HP's...is very important


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Mostly Russian with a small taste of Holland to keep things interesting.
> 
> Six 6H12C and one 1578 with a Philips GZ34. Sounds great!
> 
> Gosh, these 6H12C are quiet. I usually have trouble finding four 6BX7 or 6BL7 that play quietly together. (I hate these adapters. Maybe some day I will ask Deyan to build some good ones.) That said these were the first 6 I tried and they are all quiet and play nicely together. And of course it's too soon to conclude that they are "Great" as I've had them in for less than 10 minutes. And who knows what I will think after several weeks. But for now, I am very pleased.




Just the idea that the first six tubes that you tried are quiet is pretty impressive.
That , and the price could make those tubes pretty popular


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Swapped out the ECC32 for GEC 6J5G a couple of weeks ago. Really good with the Verite


----------



## Velozity

Those of you with tube testers, can you recommend one that I can use to test GOTL-compatible tubes that won't cost a lot?  Not looking for anything extravagant.  Just solid and reliable.  Thanks!


----------



## chrisdrop (Aug 24, 2020)

UsoppNoKami said:


> Swapped out the ECC32 for GEC 6J5G a couple of weeks ago. Really good with the Verite



Nice tubes. You always have great tubes ... and headphones ... and other kit!

@GDuss asked earlier about some grey glass GEC 6J5Gs that I was using lately, how they compared vs other grey glass GEC 6J5s. The tubes pictured here have vertical clear lines in the grey glass towards the top of the tube.

I have 2 grey sets. The ones which have vertical lines in the grey glass sound different than the ones that don't have those vertical lines. To be clear, I am not suggesting the lines influence the sound, but that there is something otherwise different between the tubes. Both of the sets that I have are grey glass, so I can't see into the valve to see what is different. I think the ones I have without the vertical clear lines in the grey glass are more clear and crisp, but with less thump and the ones with the vertical lines have a bit more bass kick. I think the vertical lines are older tubes FWIW, but I am not 100% certain.

Another possibility, the vertical clear lines tube may be older and "less-NOS"/testing worse - perhaps more distorted? I am not sure if tubes get noises as they "test worse" or if they can also get more distorted (while still being basically quiet). Anyhow, misc musing for you all...

EDIT: honoured @GDuss picked me up on some longitudinal confusion  (horizontal/ vertical mixed as if they were synonyms!)


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Nice tubes. You always have great tubes ... and headphones ... and other kit!
> 
> @GDuss asked earlier about some grey glass GEC 6J5Gs that I was using lately, how they compared vs other grey glass GEC 6J5s. The tubes pictured here have vertical clear lines in the grey glass towards the top of the tube.
> 
> ...



Thanks CD.  There are also clear glass versions of these GEC 6J5.  Not suggesting that you buy those to compare (unless you really want to), it's just another version out there.  I have no idea whether the grey glass makes any difference.  I've heard with other grey or smoked glass tubes (e.g. KR 6SN7's) where some people say they are different and other people say not.  It almost certainly depends more on the structure of the internals and not simply the grey/smoke, but this just makes things more interesting in this case.

I can just picture us trying to request from a seller that we want the grey glass tubes with the horizontal and not vertical lines in the glass .


----------



## NickT23

UsoppNoKami said:


> Swapped out the ECC32 for GEC 6J5G a couple of weeks ago. Really good with the Verite


hello, how much are all of your audio gear from the stacked there including headphones ? You can exclude speakers !


----------



## Zachik

Velozity said:


> Those of you with tube testers, can you recommend one that I can use to test GOTL-compatible tubes that won't cost a lot?  Not looking for anything extravagant.  Just solid and reliable.  Thanks!


PM me, and I will connect you to the guy I bought my tester from. He is VERY knowledgeable, and refurbishes and calibrates testers.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Just the idea that the first six tubes that you tried are quiet is pretty impressive.
> That , and the price could make those tubes pretty popular



Tonight running six 6H12C with a GEC U18/20 rectifier and a WWII-era gray-glass National Union VT-231. I think I'm going to like these 6H12C.


----------



## mordy

It used to be simple for me to access the Head-Fi posts on my iPhone. An email would tell me that there was a new post, I would click on it and read it, and I could respond if I wanted to.

After installing an upgrade to the iOS it became a nightmare to read and respond to posts on my phone.
I notice the new emailed post and click on it. Click on "view message".
"You must be logged in to do that."
Now I have to wait until my screen name pops up - Use "mordy"
Click on that - now I need my touch ID. Touch button below screen on phone.
Now a message about cookies. User name and password pop up. 
"You must be logged in to do that"
Pecking like a pigeon on the screen.
Finally the screen comes up. And I already clicked on "stay logged in" many times before.
How can I get rid of this nonsense? (I have an iPhone 6+ - is that the problem?)


----------



## Karnicopia

I can usually stay logged in on my iphone so I don't think it's an IOS issue but it could be a security setting so maybe in safari settings see if you are blocking cookies. I think that would be the main one but you may also have a content blocker installed that is logging you out.

I called myself a boring tube roller and then picked up a pair of the GEC 6080 that popped up on ebay. Hopefully I didn't get ripped off but they did seem really reasonable compared to some of what I was seeing for the 6as7g and it seems like Langrex has a pretty good rep on the thread (they seem to have more out there in case I didn't get ripped off lol). With how much I love the Bendix tubes it seemed like a reasonable investment so we'll see but I'm pretty excited. YOLO I guess


----------



## mordy

Thanks - I was not blocking cookies but by clearing the data on Safari it seems to work much better now without all the annoying clicks and waits.
The GEC 6080 is a great tube and Langrex has a very good reputation. I also appreciate that they don't rip you off on the shipping.
And I don't think you should feel guilty LOL if you like your present tubes so much that you don't want to change.... The main thing is enjoying the music after all. 
But there is a special thrill in trying to find the best sounding combinations and listening to new tubes and new sounds.


----------



## Karnicopia (Aug 25, 2020)

Thanks, I get worried because descriptions can always be shaky but it did seem like people liked Langrex and I have wanted to check out some GEC power tubes but those 6as7g were just way too much for me. These 6080 seemed reasonable for what I was willing to pay so I'm really excited to hear them and see what i think. I do have a few different combos I like so far and some of them really surprise me so I'm really interested to hear these.

I did pick up some Chatham 6336a because I really like the Cetron 6336a but then I did a search here and it sounds like Glenn said those Chatham 6336 can arc pretty bad (not sure if it's the "a" version he specifically said the 6336 version) but I may be a bit worried about that one.  So this may be an example that I need to do a better job of searching here first.


----------



## mordy

Are you sure that Glenn referred to the 6336 tubes? I can only remember that some Tung Sol 5998 tubes had problems with arcing.


----------



## mordy

What is strange with these tubes:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-Ma...904370&hash=item4daed6f630:g:QOYAAOSw4lNdg8Hc




https://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-E...171659?hash=item1ce90f32cb:g:rpgAAOSwjMteqG4q


----------



## Karnicopia

mordy said:


> Are you sure that Glenn referred to the 6336 tubes? I can only remember that some Tung Sol 5998 tubes had problems with arcing.





2359glenn said:


> I had a 2399 arc over and blow a pair of headphones also I had a
> Chatham 6336 arc over that I was going to give to Stavros. So I got
> some GE 6336s with different construction and graphite plates for
> the amp I made fore Stavros.
> ...




It sounds like it was the Tung Sol/Chatham 6336 he had concerns with but I'm not sure if it applies to the 6336a. I think I'll be careful with it unless I heard anything different from Glenn but kind of sounded like he had some concerns about these. Wish I searched before I picked it up but I saw it after.


----------



## gibosi

Karnicopia said:


> Thanks, I get worried because descriptions can always be shaky but it did seem like people liked Langrex and I have wanted to check out some GEC power tubes but those 6as7g were just way too much for me. These 6080 seemed reasonable for what I was willing to pay so I'm really excited to hear them and see what i think. I do have a few different combos I like so far and some of them really surprise me so I'm really interested to hear these.
> 
> I did pick up some Chatham 6336a because I really like the Cetron 6336a but then I did a search here and it sounds like Glenn said those Chatham 6336 can arc pretty bad (not sure if it's the "a" version he specifically said the 6336 version) but I may be a bit worried about that one.  So this may be an example that I need to do a better job of searching here first.



First, it is important to remember that Chatham, Tung-Sol and Cetron are essentially the same. The only difference is date of manufacture. That is, Chatham was acquired by Tung-Sol, and later, Tung-Sol was acquired by Cetron. In the end, even as the executive management changed, these tubes continued to be manufactured in the same original Chatham factory.

And second. Yes, Glenn advised us not to buy the orginal 6336. Rather he recommended 6336A and 6336B.


----------



## Karnicopia (Aug 25, 2020)

gibosi said:


> First, it is important to remember that Chatham, Tung-Sol and Cetron are essentially the same. The only difference is date of manufacture. That is, Chatham was acquired by Tung-Sol, and later, Tung-Sol was acquired by Cetron. In the end, even as the executive management changed, these tubes continued to be manufactured in the same original Chatham factory.
> 
> And second. Yes, Glenn advised us not to buy the orginal 6336. Rather he recommended 6336A and 6336B.



Thanks that is great info and I'm glad they will be safe to use and while I was hoping for a new sound to check out I really like those Cetron's so if these are similar I'll still be happy. I was trying to pick up a pair of Chatham 6as7g but I missed the end of the auction (random napping) and figured I would give these a shot.


----------



## triod750

mordy said:


> What is strange with these tubes:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-Ma...904370&hash=item4daed6f630:g:QOYAAOSw4lNdg8Hc
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-E...171659?hash=item1ce90f32cb:g:rpgAAOSwjMteqG4q



You have to visit the Sylvania factory in Germany to find out. Please say hello to Svetlana from me.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> First, it is important to remember that Chatham, Tung-Sol and Cetron are essentially the same. The only difference is date of manufacture. That is, Chatham was acquired by Tung-Sol, and later, Tung-Sol was acquired by Cetron. In the end, even as the executive management changed, these tubes continued to be manufactured in the same original Chatham factory.
> 
> And second. Yes, Glenn advised us not to buy the original 6336. Rather he recommended 6336A and 6336B.


Thanks for the clarification. Just checked my inventory of 6336 tubes; all are graphite plates and A or B versions. I have about ten of them - one is a 6528 that is the same but with a mu of 9 instead of 4.2 for the 6336.
Sounds like a really serious tube:

*Description 6528*Medium-mu twin triode intended as series regulator in power supply circuits. Graphite, zirconium coated plates, gold plated molybdenum grids. Up tp 400V and up to 300mA per plate, within 30W maximum allowed power dissipation per plate.
Similar to 6336A, with higher gm, 37 mS, and mu, 9.
However, a higher amplification factor could make for more noise so i did not bother to find a second one.
Another tube Glenn has warned about is the Tung Sol 5998 (IBM designation 2399) that several people reported arcing over.


----------



## mordy

triod750 said:


> You have to visit the Sylvania factory in Germany to find out. Please say hello to Svetlana from me.


Right you are! Periodically the Svetlana 6AS7G (or Russian equivalents) pop up, sadly to say, even from sellers with good feedback, with all kinds of brand names.
The forgers even have methods for making the newly printed boxes look old:


----------



## gibosi

gibosi said:


> Tonight running six 6H12C with a GEC U18/20 rectifier and a WWII-era gray-glass National Union VT-231. I think I'm going to like these 6H12C.



After a couple hours, I realized that the GEC U18/20 was a bit too bright for my ears, so swapped in a Cossor 53KU. This is better.


----------



## mordy (Aug 25, 2020)

Test your knowledge - what is this?



The actual size is about 20% of this picture - 2.5" x 2.5".
And no, it is not a slinky.


----------



## triod750

mordy said:


> Test your knowledge - what is this?
> 
> The actual size is about 20% of this picture - 2.5" x 2.5".
> And no, it is not a slinky.



This is quite obvious. It is a vintage riddle. The question is: who made it? I don't think Svetlana was involved.


----------



## mordy

It is an item from the Cold War era - not Russia but maybe the skunk works of the Red Bank Division, Eatontown, NJ.


----------



## gibosi

Red Bank Division, Eatontown, NJ?? I think I have seen these in local hardware stores! 

You put these in your rain gutters at the point where a down spout connects to the horizontal roof gutters to keep them from getting clogged. No? lol


----------



## chrisdrop

I'm enjoying a simple 3 tube roll tonight; 1 ECC32 & 2 GEC 6080s. This seems like a very "classic GOTL" roll and ... it certainly works a treat  I'me sure many of you long time owners have been-there/done-that. I've enjoyed a few 6N7Gs in the amp, but I do agree that this ECC32 is the nicest dual triode I've used. It still only has a very low # of hours on it and I am curious to see if/how much it changes. Now that I've been ... going to my office ... I've not had as much time on the GOTL as during full lockdown. I've found my evening listening sessions have been much more "pure listening with no other activities". The focus on "just listening" has been lovely.


----------



## whirlwind (Aug 26, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> I'm enjoying a simple 3 tube roll tonight; 1 ECC32 & 2 GEC 6080s. This seems like a very "classic GOTL" roll and ... it certainly works a treat  I'me sure many of you long time owners have been-there/done-that. I've enjoyed a few 6N7Gs in the amp, but I do agree that this ECC32 is the nicest dual triode I've used. It still only has a very low # of hours on it and I am curious to see if/how much it changes. Now that I've been ... going to my office ... I've not had as much time on the GOTL as during full lockdown. I've found my evening listening sessions have been much more "pure listening with no other activities". The focus on "just listening" has been lovely.
> 
> 
> [/QUOTE
> ...




yeah, that is killer


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Red Bank Division, Eatontown, NJ?? I think I have seen these in local hardware stores!
> 
> You put these in your rain gutters at the point where a down spout connects to the horizontal roof gutters to keep them from getting clogged. No? lol



Ha! Yeah, except leaves still build up around mine


----------



## mordy (Aug 26, 2020)

gibosi said:


> Red Bank Division, Eatontown, NJ?? I think I have seen these in local hardware stores!
> 
> You put these in your rain gutters at the point where a down spout connects to the horizontal roof gutters to keep them from getting clogged. No? lol


Noooo, close, but no cigar.
I am now going to measure the impact of those thingamajigs. Stay tuned.


----------



## wazzupi

anyone know where I can find a pair of  Sylvania 6sn7w metal base thats not Ebay.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 27, 2020)

mordy said:


> Test your knowledge - what is this?
> 
> The actual size is about 20% of this picture - 2.5" x 2.5".
> And no, it is not a slinky.



Part of a faraday cage?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage


.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Part of a faraday cage?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
> 
> ...


No - good suggestion, but not it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> No - good suggestion, but not it.



Didn't Skunk Works help design and test the SR-71 spy plane (that could fly at mach 6)?


----------



## mordy (Aug 27, 2020)

All right, here is the story. Some time back I bought two 6336 tubes and in the package were two of those metal circle-like things.
They have been sitting there for a while, and then it dawned upon me that they must be heat sinks or tube coolers that slip over the glass. Just like the radiators in a house increase the heat dissipation from the pipes by providing more surface area, the tube heat sinks extend the surface area for more heat dissipation from the glass.
The 6336 tubes are two 6AS7 tubes in one envelope and draw 5A, and they get really hot.
The heat sinks are flexible and the one pictured had been stretched out to fit the larger glass envelope of the 6336 tube, but the second one had not been stretched out, and it fit handily over a 6080 tube.




Another shot:



In order for the stretched out one to fit , I had to push it together with a little piece of wire around it.
The 6336 is rated at 250C, and the spec sheet mentions cooling. I have a pair of graphite Bendix 6080WB (rated up to 300C) in my GOTL , and I decided to make an experiment and measure if the tube coolers make a difference.
(BTW, I just saw an ad for a single Bendix 6080WB for a mind staggering $700!
What is the tube world coming to?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-6080-...692158?hash=item2aef41c83e:g:GSAAAOSwA~5fN10K)
But I digress - back to the experiment:
Stage one: I let the amp warm up an hour and then measure the spot with the highest tube temperature with an infrared thermometer.
Stage two: Let the amp cool off and then warm up an hour with the tube coolers in place and measured tube temperatures.
Stage three: Let the amp cool off and then measured the temperature after an hour with my two 4" fans blowing on the amp and tubes.
Stage four: Let the amp cool off, and then measured after an hour with both the tube coolers in place and the fans on.
Room temperature 24C, amp playing with headphones. All tubes in socket savers (that further reduces the tube temperatures). My experience is that even date matched tubes vary a little in how hot they get, so I averaged out both tubes.
Disclaimer: Test equipment not calibrated fancy stuff, but the main points borne out are the relative reductions of heat.
1) Amp left on its own -           Bendix temp 203C
2) Tubes with tube coolers attached - temp 146C
3) Fans on, no tube coolers              - temp 149C
4) Tube coolers and fans on             - temp  119C
The question is what the best operating temperature range is of the tubes - I have only seen upper limits mentioned, but possibly too low a temperature will impact function. Would like to hear from others about this.
Tried to find a seller for these flexible tube heat sinks. Could not find anything for sale that is flexible and can fit several sizes of tubes, but I found something called Pearl Tube coolers. They come in fixed sizes, and you need to size them to your tubes. The company claims that their coolers can double the service life of tubes:
https://www.pearl-hifi.com/03_Prod_Serv/Coolers/Coolers.html
You can buy them here:
https://www.partsconnexion.com/pearl-tube-coolers.html
But.....
Comes JACtubes and throws in a wrench. He states that tube coolers are a bad idea because they change the heat dissipation characteristics of the glass part of the tube versus the part where the pins are attached. The materials used in sealing the pins have the same heat expansion as the tube glass, and by cooling the tube glass you change this relationship and microscopic channels can open up that very slowly lead to loss of vacuum:
https://jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/COOLTUBES/Not-using-cooler-elements.pdf
I need to hear from you which way to go. Perhaps fans are better since the air blows on all parts of the tube, whereas the heat sinks/tube coolers only affect the glass.
Also need to know how much the tube can be cooled without loss of performance (which I know can happen).


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Didn't Skunk Works help design and test the SR-71 spy plane (that could fly at mach 6)?


Meaning skunk works:

*skunk-works*

an experimental laboratory or department of a company or institution, typically smaller than and independent of its main research division.


The Bendix Corporation had a division in Eatontown, NJ called the Red Bank Division. Here they developed vacuum tubes for use in ballistic missiles that could operate at 60,000 feet and under very difficult conditions.
And this of course explains the red print on the Bendix 6080WB tubes:


----------



## leftside

Group buy? I'd take 4:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50x-6C5G-CV581-TUBE-BY-COSSOR-GREAT-BRITAIN/363088391811


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Group buy? I'd take 4:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50x-6C5G-CV581-TUBE-BY-COSSOR-GREAT-BRITAIN/363088391811



I'd be in for a pair


----------



## chrisdrop

Excited to get some packages in the post yesterday, _but_ I certainly can take a break buying tubes... 7x Sylvania 6BL7s (branded Fivre, but they are Sylvania), 4x Fivre 6C5G, 2x Grey Osram L63 (to replace a pair that I ruined!)

.. time for a break man !!



leftside said:


> Group buy? I'd take 4:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50x-6C5G-CV581-TUBE-BY-COSSOR-GREAT-BRITAIN/363088391811



... sod that - @leftside I'd be in for 2 or 4!


----------



## JazzVinyl

chrisdrop said:


> Excited to get some packages in the post yesterday, _but_ I certainly can take a break buying tubes... 7x Sylvania 6BL7s (branded Fivre, but they are Sylvania), 4x Fivre 6C5G, 2x Grey Osram L63 (to replace a pair that I ruined!)
> 
> .. time for a break man !!



Know the feeling!

You have a heck of a lot of really nice tubes, Chris!!

The 7x 6BL7's that are Fivre->Sylvania - are they the Flat Plate ones?

Here is an interesting roll for you, Chris, using tubes you might already have:

ECC88 + C3g as Driver Triplet and 2x Mullard 6080's...

Kind of the opposite of the normal GOTL take on things, very fast and articulate, not as laid back.  A touch of warmth from the 6080's balances this out.


Cheers!!


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> Know the feeling!
> 
> You have a heck of a lot of really nice tubes, Chris!!
> 
> ...



There are a bunch of different ECC88's. Which are you using in this triplet?

And I'm still running six Melz 6H12C (or 6N12S). Unfortunately, with only two output sockets, it is difficult to directly compare them to 6BX7, swapping tubes in and out of adapters is a major hassle. But my impression is that the Melz are relatively transparent and I find that they allow more euphonic drivers, such as the gray-glass NU, the black glass Brimar or the TS BGRP to shine. Currently enjoying the Tung-Sol very much.


----------



## gibosi

And I should say that I got extremely lucky. I managed to buy ten 6H12C for $15 each, all dated 1962. Looking at the curremt prices of these tubes on eBay, that would be a much more expensive proposition.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> There are a bunch of different ECC88's. Which are you using in this triplet?
> 
> And I'm still running six Melz 6H12C (or 6N12S). Unfortunately, with only two output sockets, it is difficult to directly compare them to 6BX7, swapping tubes in and out of adapters is a major hassle. But my impression is that the Melz are relatively transparent and I find that they allow more euphonic drivers, such as the gray-glass NU, the black glass Brimar or the TS BGRP to shine. Currently enjoying the Tung-Sol very much.




I sure understand what you are saying about not wanting to fiddle with those adapters to much.
A really transparent power tube  is a good thing IMO...you get to listen to your favorite driver tubes and enjoy them for what they are.
Good job getting a matching 10 tubes!


----------



## chrisdrop

JazzVinyl said:


> Know the feeling!
> 
> You have a heck of a lot of really nice tubes, Chris!!
> 
> ...


Hey JV, tx for the recommendations. Always warmly welcomed!

I don't have any ECC88s, or Mullard 6080s. I do have C3g and other 6080s (Bendix, GEC, RCA). I wasn't sure about the 'small tubes' vs their larger brethren. I guess some of these smaller tubes are "in-play"! They are generally manufactured later, mid-50s onwards if I recall correctly.

Regarding the 6BL7s, they are all from the same case. I'll need to go through and find which tubes have the least eroded date paint. This is what they look like:


----------



## carlman14

leftside said:


> Group buy? I'd take 4:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50x-6C5G-CV581-TUBE-BY-COSSOR-GREAT-BRITAIN/363088391811



I'd take 4 (or 6 or 8 if needed)!


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 30, 2020)

gibosi said:


> There are a bunch of different ECC88's. Which are you using in this triplet?



These are labeled "Amperex" - think you ID'ed as being made by someone else, but I don't remember who.  They are 1950's and were not cheap, as I recall...it's a nice tube, buttery smooth aids the more brittle C3g's...


----------



## raindownthunda

leftside said:


> Group buy? I'd take 4:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50x-6C5G-CV581-TUBE-BY-COSSOR-GREAT-BRITAIN/363088391811



I’d be in for 4 as well.


----------



## Zachik

raindownthunda said:


> I’d be in for 4 as well.


another 4 for me...


----------



## leftside

We're up to 22 on the possible group buy. I said it half in jest, but we might be able to pull it off. Only problem would be logistics and sending out each individual package to everyone.


----------



## gibosi

I was rummaging through a box of LD tubes yesterday and found a pair of Reflector 6N30P-DR. I had forgotten that I had them and after looking at eBay today, I am amazed at how much they are going for these days. Many consider this tube to be one of the very best stock output tubes for the LD, and I thought I would run one as a driver with a 6-pack of Melz 6N12S. Sounds dang good.


----------



## triod750

Wild thing, you make my......


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 31, 2020)

gibosi said:


> I was rummaging through a box of LD tubes yesterday and found a pair of Reflector 6N30P-DR. I had forgotten that I had them and after looking at eBay today, I am amazed at how much they are going for these days. Many consider this tube to be one of the very best stock output tubes for the LD, and I thought I would run one as a driver with a 6-pack of Melz 6N12S. Sounds dang good.





I like the look of that Reflector 6N30P-DR, @gibosi, wish I could hear it in the GOTL, don't remember if I had that one when I had my LD or not, but I don't think so.

I am still running the Amperex ECC88 and decided to try a pair of one of @mordy 's faves...the1950's Foton 6H8C's in with a pair of GE 6AS7GA's - as powers.  

This was an eye opener...seems the Foton's really bring out micro details, and turn the "it's REAL" illusion, way up!

Fun stuff!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I like the look of that Reflector 6N30P-DR, @gibosi, wish I could hear it in the GOTL, don't remember if I had that one when I had my LD or not, but I don't think so.
> 
> I am still running the Amperex ECC88 and decided to try a pair of one of @mordy 's faves...the1950's Foton 6H8C's in with a pair of GE 6AS7GA's - as powers.
> 
> ...


Look at the substantial getter structure in the ECC88 Amperex tube above - obviously inspired by this A-frame architecture....



Just to show how different this getter is, here is an upside down close-up:



Anyhow, after reading about JV's eye opener I decided to try the same recipe but instead of 6AS7GA I left in the Bendix 6080WB. Put in a pair of the Foton 6H8C ladder anode from 1954. The ECC88 is made in Holland in 1974 and has a Tektronics sticker on it - selected for use in an oscilloscope or test equipment.



And the "A" theme continues - beautiful sound. Expansive 3D sound stage, lively presentation, very good and tight bass extension, slam and dynamics; great detail and timbre.
Even though this is just a first impression I think it will stay.
Well done JV!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> And the "A" theme continues - beautiful sound. Expansive 3D sound stage, lively presentation, very good and tight bass extension, slam and dynamics; great detail and timbre.
> Even though this is just a first impression I think it will stay.
> Well done JV!



Glad you tried it, Mordy and glad you approve!  
When I first posted about it, I thought "you know, maybe I have rolled 'one too many tubes' and I have finally lost it".  LOL

Of course that Foton 6H8C does not belong in that power position, but whoa!  It adds, immensely!  I really like it and I am staying with this, too.

I did try some other 2x gain power tubes, all were enhanced via the Foton's being present on the playground 

Thank you Mordy, for finding, and sharing the Foton's.

Appreciate your giving it a whirl, Mordy...

Cheers!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Glad you tried it, Mordy and glad you approve!
> When I first posted about it, I thought "you know, maybe I have rolled 'one too many tubes' and I have finally lost it".  LOL
> 
> Of course that Foton 6H8C does not belong in that power position, but whoa!  It adds, immensely!  I really like it and I am staying with this, too.
> ...


Just listened to a favorite YouTube video now and I noticed the proverbial new details in the recording....
And yes - you have to trust your ears....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Just listened to a favorite YouTube video now and I noticed the proverbial new details in the recording....
> And yes - you have to trust your ears....



Your description of how it sounds...
Spot on, Mordy!!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Your description of how it sounds...
> Spot on, Mordy!!


A few more impressions: An expanded sound stage that brings out the individual instruments in a very pleasant way - it is like a sonic lens that lets you focus on individual details, but it comes with ease and you don't have to strain to hear it.


----------



## Skyediver

Hi gang.  I was hoping to get some direction, if possible?  I recently received PM response from @2359glenn , and I gotta admit, it was like getting a Golden Ticket from Willy Wonka.  But the thing is, I’m new to tube rolling, etc.  I’m still waiting for response from Glenn to initiate putting together an order and getting officially into his production queue, but I want to be as educated as possible around add-on options, etc.  I watched this:  which was helpful, but there’s very little else I could find.  Any recommended resources?  I’m open to working through this thread, but it IS a bit intimidating being 37K posts strong going back to 2012, and a lot of what I’m reading seems (understandably) more focused toward experienced folks discussing actual tubes.  I’m just not there yet, but Grasshopper is willing to learn.


----------



## GDuss

Skyediver said:


> Hi gang.  I was hoping to get some direction, if possible?  I recently received PM response from @2359glenn , and I gotta admit, it was like getting a Golden Ticket from Willy Wonka.  But the thing is, I’m new to tube rolling, etc.  I’m still waiting for response from Glenn to initiate putting together an order and getting officially into his production queue, but I want to be as educated as possible around add-on options, etc.  I watched this:  which was helpful, but there’s very little else I could find.  Any recommended resources?  I’m open to working through this thread, but it IS a bit intimidating being 37K posts strong going back to 2012, and a lot of what I’m reading seems (understandably) more focused toward experienced folks discussing actual tubes.  I’m just not there yet, but Grasshopper is willing to learn.




Welcome, very exciting times ahead.  I won't claim to have the expertise that others in this thread have, but am happy to help.  The experts here were very helpful to me when I first got the GOTL so hopefully I can pass that along.  Send me a PM or post questions.


----------



## Monsterzero

Skyediver said:


> Hi gang.  I was hoping to get some direction, if possible?  I recently received PM response from @2359glenn , and I gotta admit, it was like getting a Golden Ticket from Willy Wonka.  But the thing is, I’m new to tube rolling, etc.  I’m still waiting for response from Glenn to initiate putting together an order and getting officially into his production queue, but I want to be as educated as possible around add-on options, etc.  I watched this:  which was helpful, but there’s very little else I could find.  Any recommended resources?  I’m open to working through this thread, but it IS a bit intimidating being 37K posts strong going back to 2012, and a lot of what I’m reading seems (understandably) more focused toward experienced folks discussing actual tubes.  I’m just not there yet, but Grasshopper is willing to learn.



This thread is massive,and often times goes off of the rails about a specific tube or combo,which is why I created that video.
What specifically are you wanting to know?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Skyediver said:


> Hi gang.  I was hoping to get some direction, if possible?  I recently received PM response from @2359glenn , and I gotta admit, it was like getting a Golden Ticket from Willy Wonka.  But the thing is, I’m new to tube rolling, etc.  I’m still waiting for response from Glenn to initiate putting together an order and getting officially into his production queue, but I want to be as educated as possible around add-on options, etc.  I watched this:  which was helpful, but there’s very little else I could find.  Any recommended resources?  I’m open to working through this thread, but it IS a bit intimidating being 37K posts strong going back to 2012, and a lot of what I’m reading seems (understandably) more focused toward experienced folks discussing actual tubes.  I’m just not there yet, but Grasshopper is willing to learn.




PM sent...

I think I am close enough to you, that you could drive down and listen to my GOTL...

What are your intended cans, if I may ask...


----------



## Skyediver

Monsterzero said:


> This thread is massive,and often times goes off of the rails about a specific tube or combo,which is why I created that video.
> What specifically are you wanting to know?


Thanks for the response.  And your video was hugely helpful, thank you for that too.

I know there's a general range of cost for the GOTL, but it's still a bit unclear what those various options are.  Is there anywhere in this thread where I can jump to that?  Also, it seems that over time, some options seem to be stated as "must haves" while one or two others are considered less so.  Getting such user feedback from experienced owners would be fantastic, as I look to work with Glenn on my own personal configuration.  That's the main thing.  Hope that makes sense.


----------



## Skyediver

JazzVinyl said:


> PM sent...
> 
> I think I am close enough to you, that you could drive down and listen to my GOTL...
> 
> What are your intended cans, if I may ask...


 Wow, that's a generous offer, thank you.  I'll look for that.  I'm in the "waiting lounge" for my own pair of ZMF Verites, likely to come in a couple of months, so that's what's driving my interest in getting my own GOTL.


----------



## chrisdrop

Skyediver said:


> Thanks for the response.  And your video was hugely helpful, thank you for that too.
> 
> I know there's a general range of cost for the GOTL, but it's still a bit unclear what those various options are.  Is there anywhere in this thread where I can jump to that?  Also, it seems that over time, some options seem to be stated as "must haves" while one or two others are considered less so.  Getting such user feedback from experienced owners would be fantastic, as I look to work with Glenn on my own personal configuration.  That's the main thing.  Hope that makes sense.



Here is a quick basic summary _for GOTL_ (there are other amp options!):


Transformer: Lundhal transformer or American transformer. (Lundhal is probably a "better" transformer)
Rectifier: Tube rectifier or HEXFRED rectifier. I think Glenn recommends the American non-Lundhal transformer w/ the tube rectifier. I think the Lundhal + HEXFRED is quieter noise-wise.
2,4, or 6 output sockets. More tube rolling options.
Which input sockets; Minimally 1x 6SN7, more commonly 1x 6SN7 + 2x C3G, or more recently 1x 6SN7 + 2x 6J5. This is, I am quite sure, a topic to discuss and more options are likely possible.
Goldpoint stepped attenuator (the volume dial, impacts the sound - not just a pure aesthetic). I have, recommend.
6/12/25v switch (allows using different voltage tubes, often you can get popular tubes with different voltages cheaper). Very recommended.
Upgraded capacitors (I don't have)
Preamp-outputs (I have/ don't use)
I am sure I missed something and you can certainly go "off piste", but that is probably the common option set/ decision set. There are certainly more informed people than I, but happy to help if I can.

Best,
Chris


----------



## Skyediver

@Monsterzero , I should add, I by no means was suggesting that the vibe of the thread was a problem by any means!  My apologies if it sounded that way.  It just was a little bit hard for a tube noob like myself to educate myself and find my way through it all.  Honestly, I was so surprised to hear back from @2359glenn so relatively soon to my PM, I felt like I needed to up my knowledge quickly so I can talk intelligently to place my order, LOL!

My plan right now is to get the ZMF Pendant to do my "tube learning" when the Verite comes (I also hear it's a quality, quality amp in its own right), and knowing it will be awhile before I get my GOTL, I dig through this thread to learn about the tube options, etc.  Right now I read it, and it's a bunch of alphabet soup grouping of letters and numbers!

For a brief (very brief) moment I was thinking getting the Pendant would be "good enough" and getting an GOTL would then be redundant to some extent, but the love spoken about the Glenn here says that would be faulty and shortsighted thinking on my part.  Even though it's only been one PM communication with Glenn, I'm excited to go through the process to eventually become an owner.


----------



## Skyediver

chrisdrop said:


> Here is a quick basic summary _for GOTL_ (there are other amp options!):
> 
> 
> Transformer: Lundhal transformer or American transformer. (Lundhal is probably a "better" transformer)
> ...


So helpful.  And exactly what I was hoping for, thanks!  Based on my limited research to date, I think I'd go with everything you mention, especially the recommended items.  My desire is to get the "quietest" noise floor, so I'll be interested in response from other owners on their recommendations for #1 & #2.  And #4 seems interesting and likely will provide some good feedback from others too.  

Just curious on #8, if I may?  Was this a change of thinking from when you ordered to actual day to day use, or some other consideration?  Thanks again for sharing your configuration experience!


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Sep 3, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> Here is a quick basic summary _for GOTL_ (there are other amp options!):
> 
> 
> Transformer: Lundhal transformer or American transformer. (Lundhal is probably a "better" transformer)
> ...




There is also an optional switch for 5998 power tubes - glenn says it will give them the juice they need to operate better

i run tube rectifier with the lundhal transformer, so I have made it a habit to check tube spec sheets and do a bit of math before plonking in tubes to make sure I don't exceed the current limits


----------



## UsoppNoKami

oh ya - @Skyediver 

if you intend to run the WE422A rectifier, let Glenn know - he will make a special adaptor to reverse a couple of pins to eliminate some noise.  

also, you could spec upgraded sockets too.  e.g. high quality ones made by Yamamoto ... very pricey option with up to 10 sockets on the GOTL...


----------



## gibosi (Sep 3, 2020)

Skyediver said:


> So helpful.  And exactly what I was hoping for, thanks!  Based on my limited research to date, I think I'd go with everything you mention, especially the recommended items.  My desire is to get the "quietest" noise floor, so I'll be interested in response from other owners on their recommendations for #1 & #2.  And #4 seems interesting and likely will provide some good feedback from others too.
> 
> Just curious on #8, if I may?  Was this a change of thinking from when you ordered to actual day to day use, or some other consideration?  Thanks again for sharing your configuration experience!



Since "quiet" is very important to you, the Lundahl with HEXFRED rectifier is the way to go. As I am "addicted" to tube rectifiers, I have to tolerate a small amount of hum and buzzing with the American transformer.  But then, you can't have everything. 

Regarding #4, my recommendation is 1x 6SN7 + 2x C3G. This gives you the most flexibility. You can still run a pair of 6J5 via an adapter in the 6SN7 socket. And the C3g socket allows you to run other strapped pentodes, such as EL3N, EL8, EL11, etc.

And regarding which tubes to get, I am quite sure that Glenn still provides a driver and a pair of output tubes with the amp? And I assure you that even though they are not expensive, you will be surprised at how good they will sound. And then, I would encourage you to purchase a few more inexpensive tubes to enable you to learn what you like and don't like. With more experience and knowledge, you will then have a better handle on which tubes you might consider to be an upgrade.


----------



## Skyediver

Geez, I haven’t even placed my order yet, and I’m getting giddy.  Thanks so much for the specific answer to my question and such great feedback, guys!


----------



## whirlwind

Also don't be afraid to ask Glenn....he is very flexible about what anybody may want. 

It could take a bit for him to respond, but understand that he has just went through a move to a different state and a job change.
This is a sort of hobby and side gig to him....patience is the key to be rewarded


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 3, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> Here is a quick basic summary _for GOTL_ (there are other amp options!):
> 
> 
> Transformer: Lundhal transformer or American transformer. (Lundhal is probably a "better" transformer)
> ...





Skyediver said:


> Geez, I haven’t even placed my order yet, and I’m getting giddy.  Thanks so much for the specific answer to my question and such great feedback, guys!



I have the Lundahl and tube or HEXFRED plug-in. I much prefer the sound of the tubes. The HEXFRED gives an etched sound to the music. Im not the only owner who noticed it.
For #3 I went with 6. go big,or go home.
#4 Personally I'd skip the 6SN7 sockets and go with the 6/12J5 sockets instead. If I could change anything about my GOTL that would be it. You would need the 6/12 voltage switch. No 25v option needed.

I skipped #5 and #7. No clue as to what im missing.
#8 I have,and like Chris I never use it.


----------



## mordy (Sep 3, 2020)

Haven't been able to compare, but I only have the built-in Hexfred and no provision for a tube rectifier. Is it possible that the plug-in rectifier has a different sound?
Somebody mentioned that the built-in Hexfred sounds like a Cossor rectifier tube which I take to mean something positive.
Re preamp out, I use it daily, although lately I started listening much more to headphones after getting a set of Sennheiser HD250 on Monster0's recommendation.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Also don't be afraid to ask Glenn....he is very flexible about what anybody may want.
> 
> It could take a bit for him to respond, but understand that he has just went through a move to a different state and a job change.
> This is a sort of hobby and side gig to him....patience is the key to be rewarded



Did Glenn move twice?  I thought it was another town, in the same state..?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Haven't been able to compare, but I only have the built-in Hexfred and no provision for a tube rectifier. Is it possible that the plug-in rectifier has a different sound?
> Somebody mentioned that the built-in Hexfred sounds like a Cossor rectifier tube which I take to mean something positive.
> Re preamp out, I use it daily, although lately I started listening much more to headphones after getting a set of Sennheiser HD250 on Monster0's recommendation.



I cannot believe that the plugin HEXFRED sounds any different than one built-in. After all, they are the exact same HEXFRED diodes and the only difference is that B+ is slightly higher with the plug-in unit than it is with the built-in unit. And from my comparative measurements of B+ and voltage drop with respect to tube rectifiers, I observed that changing B+ has absolutely no affect on the sound.

Yes, to my ears the tone of the HEXFRED is very similar to that of a Cossor 53KU. But I need to emphasize that I am a "tone guy". My old worn-out ears and mid-fi gear are unable to discern very subtle differences such as the "etched sound" that Monster reports hearing. But I am not at all surprised. It is very well known that solid-state rectification generates odd-order harmonic distortion that is often described as being grating and etchy. And while the HEXFRED was developed to sound more like a tube, in the end, it is still a solid-state rectifier.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Did Glenn move twice?  I thought it was another town, in the same state..?




He has not moved twice, at least I do not think so and I guess I may have just assumed that he was in another state....maybe same state  just three hours away from where he was.

It sounds as if he is getting things sorted out and building amps again. That is the good news. I am sure work is still keeping him pretty busy through all of this.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> I cannot believe that the plugin HEXFRED sounds any different than one built-in. After all, they are the exact same HEXFRED diodes and the only difference is that B+ is slightly higher with the plug-in unit than it is with the built-in unit. And from my comparative measurements of B+ and voltage drop with respect to tube rectifiers, I observed that changing B+ has absolutely no affect on the sound.



As I slowly learn more and more about this and other subjects I've been coming to believe this may not quite be the case.  The rectification diodes are part of a larger scheme of components that are doing a number of different things, and how it's all implemented will end up having quite an effect on the sound.  The kind of filtering that's in place to reduce noise such as spikes, ripple and hash for example, is very important.  The HEXFRED on its own isn't going to necessarily be a source of increased hardness or etch in the sound, but because of the faster recovery time of the diodes vs. a tube diode it might be calling attention to a bit of powersupply noise that a tube recfifier might make less obvious.


----------



## Silent One

For all of us hardworking souls state side...”Happy Labor Day.” May you enjoy good sounds and stay safe!


----------



## whirlwind

Silent One said:


> For all of us hardworking souls state side...”Happy Labor Day.” May you enjoy good sounds and stay safe!



Hey, nice to see the thread starter here.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 5, 2020)

Rollin' Mullard's


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 5, 2020)

Xcalibur255 said:


> As I slowly learn more and more about this and other subjects I've been coming to believe this may not quite be the case.  The rectification diodes are part of a larger scheme of components that are doing a number of different things, and how it's all implemented will end up having quite an effect on the sound.  The kind of filtering that's in place to reduce noise such as spikes, ripple and hash for example, is very important.  The HEXFRED on its own isn't going to necessarily be a source of increased hardness or etch in the sound, but because of the faster recovery time of the diodes vs. a tube diode it might be calling attention to a bit of powersupply noise that a tube recfifier might make less obvious.



Going off of this, one aspect of SS vs tube rectification that needs to be addressed in the PS design process is mains transformer ringing.  Abrupt transients through the power supply can cause resonant frequencies in the transformer to "ring", which may be audible in the audio output, depending on the power supply rejection ratio of the output stage.

In the case of a SS rectified power supply, using transformer RC snubbers is necessary on the transformer secondary to dampen this ringing such that it is not audible on the audio output or contribute to oscillations in other components.  While these snubbers can also be implemented in a tube-rectified power supply, they are not typically used as the high internal resistance of the tube rectifier adequately dampens this ringing.

My point is, a 1:1 switch from SS to tube rectifier diodes is not truly an apples-to-apples comparison as the power supply will typically be optimized for one or the other.  Adding SS diodes to a tube rectified supply may leave a transformer ringing issue if snubbers have not been implemented.  Likewise, the operating point of the vacuum tubes will be altered as the Vdrop across the diodes will change for SS vs. tube, meaning a difference in B+ voltage on the order of 30V or so, depending on the tube rectifier.


----------



## Xcalibur255

@L0rdGwyn

I was hoping you'd chime in with a better and more smartly worded version of what I was trying to say.    The takeway I was shooting for is that when swapping from tube to HEXFRED and comparing the difference one cannot attribute that difference to JUST the diode change itself because there are overlapping effects with other components that also come into play.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Going off of this, one aspect of SS vs tube rectification that needs to be addressed in the PS design process is mains transformer ringing.  Abrupt transients through the power supply can cause resonant frequencies in the transformer to "ring", which may be audible in the audio output, depending on the power supply rejection ratio of the output stage.
> 
> In the case of a SS rectified power supply, using transformer RC snubbers is necessary on the transformer secondary to dampen this ringing such that it is not audible on the audio output or contribute to oscillations in other components.  While these snubbers can also be implemented in a tube-rectified power supply, they are not typically used as the high internal resistance of the tube rectifier adequately dampens this ringing.
> 
> My point is, a 1:1 switch from SS to tube rectifier diodes is not truly an apples-to-apples comparison as the power supply will typically be optimized for one or the other.  Adding SS diodes to a tube rectified supply may leave a transformer ringing issue if snubbers have not been implemented.  Likewise, the operating point of the vacuum tubes will be altered as the Vdrop across the diodes will change for SS vs. tube, meaning a difference in B+ voltage on the order of 30V or so, depending on the tube rectifier.


Keenan,next time can you explain it all in English please. 

Although I wasnt privy to hearing the etched/rough edges that another owner experienced,it is worth noting that his GOTL had a permanent SS rectifier,as opposed to mine,which is either/or. We both heard the same thing.

I will leave the hows and whys to you guys who know way more about the science behind it than I do.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> Keenan,next time can you explain it all in English please.
> 
> Although I wasnt privy to hearing the etched/rough edges that another owner experienced,it is worth noting that his GOTL had a permanent SS rectifier,as opposed to mine,which is either/or. We both heard the same thing.
> 
> I will leave the hows and whys to you guys who know way more about the science behind it than I do.


Saw this on the other thread and was thinking about you. 

________________________________________________________________


> vonBaron said:
> Abyss founders do like listen to metal?


I'm finding the TC's to be outstanding with all metal genres. The speed and attack of the TC's fully renders guitars, vocals and instruments in life like detail. Imaging and soundstage are also outstanding!


----------



## gibosi (Sep 7, 2020)

Since I'm operating rather far off the beaten path, I'm not sure if there is much interest in my current roll, but thought I'd share...

A 6-pack of Melz 6H12C are still installed in the output sockets, and today, I decided to roll a pair of EL42, manufactured by Mullard in their Blackburn factory, and a GZ34, manufactured by Philips in their Sittard factory.

The Melz are quite neutral and transparent, and listening to the interplay of the British and Holland tubes is quite delicious. 



Edit: Oh, those who look closely will notice that the EL42 carry the Tungsram brand. But they were indeed manufactured by Mullard in their Blackburn factory.


----------



## chrisdrop

gibosi said:


> Since I'm operating rather far off the beaten path, I'm not sure if there is much interest in my current roll, but thought I'd share...
> 
> A 6-pack of Melz 6H12C are still installed in the output sockets, and today, I decided to roll a pair of EL42, manufactured by Mullard in their Blackburn factory, and a GZ34, manufactured by Philips in their Sittard factory.
> 
> ...


That's a whole lotta adapter! 

Can those 6H12Cs just be plugged into the 6x output sockets in amps with them, or do they need adapters? 

Today, I'm on a 1940s RCA 6N7G. It is a pretty tube. Getter close-up in action:


----------



## gibosi

chrisdrop said:


> That's a whole lotta adapter!
> 
> Can those 6H12Cs just be plugged into the 6x output sockets in amps with them, or do they need adapters?
> 
> Today, I'm on a 1940s RCA 6N7G. It is a pretty tube. Getter close-up in action:



The 6H12C is quite similar to the 6BL7 / 6BX7, with the same pinout, so those who have six output sockets wouldn't need any adapters, "Plug and Play".


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> The 6H12C is quite similar to the 6BL7 / 6BX7, with the same pinout, so those who have six output sockets wouldn't need any adapters, "Plug and Play".


Are those 6H12C equivalent of 6BX7 or 6BL7 tubes?  
I would like to add to my compatibility list, placed together with one or the other (they have separate rows, since the amplification factor is different at 10 for 6BX7 vs. amplification of 15 for the 6BL7).


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> The 6H12C is quite similar to the 6BL7 / 6BX7, with the same pinout, so those who have six output sockets wouldn't need any adapters, "Plug and Play".


Inspired by gibosi (consciously) and Chrisdrop (subconsciously) I entered unchartered waters earlier today. Instead of gibosi's 6xMelz 6H12C I put in 6xFoton 6H8C from 1952-55 (Russian equivalent to 6SN7). First I tried with a Sylvania 6B8C but too bright, so I put in my 1940 RCA 6N7G - the same tube Chrisdrop is using now. This RCA is one of my favorite drivers.



The 2.5A power tubes have a multiplifaction factor of 2; the 6SN7 of 20. The disadvantage of having power tubes of higher mu is that noise could be amplified; however, these Russian tubes (similar to many Russian tubes) are very quiet. The gain is higher, and I have to use the volume control at a lower setting than usual, but not a problem.
It sounds very nice so far. Before this I tried a combination of two of the above Foton tubes together with a pair of 6080 tubes and a Philips ECC88/Mazda ECC804 or Sylvania6B8C as a single driver. This combination is very special. If you have similar tubes I recommend trying it.
Endless variations....Everything sounds good....now I am looking for that magical combination that is above the rest.....


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I would be curious to see a datasheet for the 6H12C if you have found one, @gibosi !

Since we are sharing tubes today, I will contribute  here are some very, very old triodes from Germany, Allgemeine Elektricitäts-Gesellschaft (AEG) K1694, bought these quite a few months ago but never got around to listening to them.  AEG was the parent company of Telefunken, these are an industrialized version of the REN904, 4V 1.1A heaters.



A little dirty, a little dingy, but hey these things are almost 90 years old!  But still sound great, very nice, spacious, airy sound in my amplifier.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> Keenan,next time can you explain it all in English please.
> 
> Although I wasnt privy to hearing the etched/rough edges that another owner experienced,it is worth noting that his GOTL had a permanent SS rectifier,as opposed to mine,which is either/or. We both heard the same thing.
> 
> I will leave the hows and whys to you guys who know way more about the science behind it than I do.



As an owner of the full wave bridge of Solid State rectifiers in the GOTL...

There ain't no etched roughness / hardness or ringing.

You guys who say so, are just plain crazy, and ready for the looney bin!   

Must be your $700.00 USB cable, MZ....


----------



## gibosi

6H12C data sheet

I can't read Russian, but it appears that the heater is 0.9 amp and the amplification factor is 17, so not quite equal to the 6BL7, but close. A 6-pack is working fine for me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

JazzVinyl said:


> As an owner of the full wave bridge of Solid State rectifiers in the GOTL...
> 
> There ain't no etched roughness / hardness or ringing.
> 
> ...



Because your amp was destined for SS diodes from the get-go some appropriate precautions may have been taken to ensure they will work well in the circuit.  The user of an adapter may not have the luxury of those extra precautions.  I would think a lack of snubbers would only affect an EL3N amp though, not the OTL....... but there could be other concerns too.  Power supply design is quite an art it turns out.


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> As an owner of the full wave bridge of Solid State rectifiers in the GOTL...
> 
> There ain't no etched roughness / hardness or ringing.
> 
> ...


When I last tried the HEXFRED plugin it was way before I upgraded my cabling. The other member didnt have upgraded cabling to my knowledge either. He has since moved on to another amp.

Its great that youre happy with your HEXFRED,just as im happy with my tubes.


----------



## triod750




----------



## Zachik

triod750 said:


>


How can the gain be 14-20 ?!
Do they have a huge tolerance in their factory, or is it dependent on other factors in specific design / implementation of the amp??


----------



## gibosi (Sep 9, 2020)

Zachik said:


> How can the gain be 14-20 ?!
> Do they have a huge tolerance in their factory, or is it dependent on other factors in specific design / implementation of the amp??



I think this is simply the Russian way of providing this data. This practice is common on Russian datasheets. So I usually pick the mid-point. For example, filament (heater) current, 0.83 to 0.97, I would say 0.9 A.  And gain, 14 to 20, I would say 17.

Edit: In the case of heater current, anything between 0.83 and 0.97 is acceptable. And in the case of gain, I suspect it depends on the circuit.


----------



## triod750 (Sep 9, 2020)

Zachik said:


> How can the gain be 14-20 ?!
> Do they have a huge tolerance in their factory, or is it dependent on other factors in specific design / implementation of the amp??



Asking the right questions is a great first step to knowledge. Finding the one that can answer them comes next. Unfortunately I'm not that person. I expect your second proposition to be correct and am eagerly waiting for an explanation.

I bought a pair of Melz 6H8C from a seller in Moldovia a couple of years ago and liked their tone for acoustical music. He had one Melz 6H12C and, thinking about what Gibosi use to say about 'house sound', I was interested in trying them out. I asked him if he could source another but he couldn't. He provided me with the information in English that I posted previously. Recently I bought a pair from a seller at a very reasonable price. They use to cost a lot more than I paid for these. They have been running with a pair of C3g in a much smaller Dot than GOTL for about 140 hours and their sound has developed considerably, especially after about 100 hours. Either they have changed or my brain has, or both. Anyway, they are from the same batch as Gibosi's, 1962, and I have now ordered two from the fifties with a slightly different construction. Some old people use to say that older is better so I just have to check this out.


----------



## Zachik

triod750 said:


> Asking the right questions is a great first step to knowledge. Finding the one that can answer them comes next. *Unfortunately I'm not that person*. I expect your second proposition to be correct and am eagerly waiting for an explanation.


Quoting your message with the data, and asking questions - is not necessarily directed just at you, but anyone who could answer (as gibosi did)... Quoting is just for giving my questions the right context.
Thanks for the English data, BTW


----------



## triod750

Zachik said:


> Quoting your message with the data, and asking questions - is not necessarily directed just at you, but anyone who could answer (as gibosi did)... Quoting is just for giving my questions the right context.
> Thanks for the English data, BTW



I didn't take it as directed to me, I just wanted to share my lack of knowledge. I rely heavily on Gibosi and others.


----------



## whirlwind

triod750 said:


> I didn't take it as directed to me, I just wanted to share my lack of knowledge. I rely heavily on Gibosi and others.



Yes sir @gibosi has great knowledge about tubes and he takes killer pictures which are very helpful as you can clearly see the tubes construction


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Yes sir @gibosi has great knowledge about tubes and he takes killer pictures which are very helpful as you can clearly see the tubes construction


I wish I will still have good decent hearing and half as much knowledge (and tubes) as @gibosi by the time I am older...


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> I wish I will still have good decent hearing and half as much knowledge (and tubes) as @gibosi by the time I am older...



You are still young so I am sure you will be able to surpass me in every way.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> Yes sir @gibosi has great knowledge about tubes and he takes killer pictures which are very helpful as you can clearly see the tubes construction


Pretty much every member/owner here has helped me tremendously over the years,Gibosi included.

This thread is the best on the whole site.


----------



## MIKELAP (Sep 10, 2020)

First of all Hi guys ,long time no see for several of you from the Littledot days .I have a question for you guys. I have this double 6BL7 tube adapter for the power tube section on my WA22 and ive been checking out your thread regarding the 6N12C tubes . So would they be plug and play swapping them out with the 6BL7'S i understand  they have the same pinout . My power tube section can handle 3A\channel and i understand these are around .900A each. One last thing about sound sig since you guys tried them out are they something special ? Also  Is there a reliable seller for these tubes not many available. Thanks guys.


----------



## mordy

MIKELAP said:


> First of all Hi guys ,long time no see for several of you from the Littledot days .I have a question for you guys. I have this double 6BL7 tube adapter for the power tube section on my WA22 and ive been checking out your thread regarding the 6N12C tubes . So would they be plug and play swapping them out with the 6BL7'S i understand  they have the same pinout . My power tube section can handle 3A\channel and i understand these are around .900A each. One last thing about sound sig since you guys tried them out are they something special ? Also  Is there a reliable seller for these tubes not many available. Thanks guys.


Hi Mikelap,
Good to hear from you! From my understanding 6H12C is plug and play - same pinout as 6SN7. The only people I know of who have experience with these tubes are gibosi and Triod750.
If I may so (without having heard the Melz 6H12C tubes), you may want to try another Russian tube that also sounds very good - the Foton 6H8C. This only applies to early production from 1952-55 with an anode that has a ladder (ribbed) pattern. Bear in mind that the production changed in 1955 so make sure to look for the right anode pattern. These tubes might be easier to find as well.
Found a good picture:



(Looks like one if 1956 - have not seen this before)


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi Mikelap,
> Good to hear from you! From my understanding 6H12C is plug and play - same pinout as 6SN7. The only people I know of who have experience with these tubes are gibosi and Triod750.
> If I may so (without having heard the Melz 6H12C tubes), you may want to try another Russian tube that also sounds very good - the Foton 6H8C. This only applies to early production from 1952-55 with an anode that has a ladder (ribbed) pattern. Bear in mind that the production changed in 1955 so make sure to look for the right anode pattern. These tubes might be easier to find as well.
> Found a good picture:
> ...


Thanks for the infos mordy .Yes the Photons i have a pair of the ladder type pattern from 1952 . got a few pairs from 60"s


----------



## gibosi

MIKELAP said:


> First of all Hi guys ,long time no see for several of you from the Littledot days .I have a question for you guys. I have this double 6BL7 tube adapter for the power tube section on my WA22 and ive been checking out your thread regarding the 6N12C tubes . So would they be plug and play swapping them out with the 6BL7'S i understand  they have the same pinout . My power tube section can handle 3A\channel and i understand these are around .900A each. One last thing about sound sig since you guys tried them out are they something special ? Also  Is there a reliable seller for these tubes not many available. Thanks guys.



Yes, they have the same pinout as the 6BL7, and with 3 amps available in your Woo, you could run four or even six.

In terms of sonics, I would characterize this tube as fairly neutral and transparent. However, it is on the drier, leaner side, and to my ears, it matches up well with drivers and/or rectifiers that are bit more euphonic. 

Unfortunately, as you have found, 6H12C are not all that common. I suggest contacting a few of your favorite sellers of Russian tubes and ask if they can get them for you.


----------



## triod750

* 6N12S *​
Name6N12STypeDouble triodeApplicationLF voltage amplificationCathode typeoxide,indirect heatingEnvelopeglassMass,g45Filament voltage,V6,3Filament current,A0,83-0,97Anode voltage,V180Anode current,A0,015-0,031Anode power,W4,2Grid1 voltage,Vminus 7Steepness,mA/V4,8-8,0Microphnic noise,mV250Gain14,0-20,0Socket typersh5-1


----------



## mordy

MIKELAP said:


> Thanks for the infos mordy .Yes the Photons i have a pair of the ladder type pattern from 1952 . got a few pairs from 60"s


You are halfway there already lol....
ATM I am listening six 50's Foton 6H8S + a RCA 6N7G. The Fotons are very quiet and they have a very even frequency response and great detailed layering.The presentation is both musical and detailed and relaxing - you can just enjoy the music, or, concentrate on details in the music; they are all there. Somehow the background instruments are becoming clearer as well.
This combo runs very cool and with the fans on the amp is almost the same temperature as the room temperature - 27C vs 25C. And that is after leaving it on 15 hours straight.
Glenn once told me that you could exceed the capacity of the GOTL with an additional ampere (in my case 14A instead of 13A) by using fan cooling which
may be good to know, although with this setup it certainly isn't needed.


----------



## MIKELAP

I will  give it a try got plenty of 6N7 .ive been using 4 -6BL7 with the double adapter which is 3A \channel and my amp is rated at 3A\channel but doesnt seem to get hot ,then again i dont use these all the time .When you talk about using a fan that's what i do when im using my Russian 6C33C tube SET amp for speakers the damm things go up to 400F. Dont have to use a fan but damm it get's hot Thanks mordy


----------



## chrisdrop

A quick survey of opinions;  Do you plug in headphones before turning amp on, or after? Power down the amp with the headphones plugged in? 

Bottlehead & other amps suggestion is that you should turn amp on/ off with headphones plugged in and that this is less disturbing noise than otherwise.

My practice with the GOTL is only ever turn on/ off the amp w/ the headphones unplugged, but perhaps I have it backwards with this amp too!


----------



## gibosi (Sep 11, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> A quick survey of opinions;  Do you plug in headphones before turning amp on, or after? Power down the amp with the headphones plugged in?
> 
> Bottlehead & other amps suggestion is that you should turn amp on/ off with headphones plugged in and that this is less disturbing noise than otherwise.
> 
> My practice with the GOTL is only ever turn on/ off the amp w/ the headphones unplugged, but perhaps I have it backwards with this amp too!



Your practice is correct. The OTL doesn't care if the headphones are plugged in or not. But if a tube blows when the amp is turned on or off, your headphones may not survive. And if you have the headphones on your head, your ears could be damaged. So protect your headphones and your ears. Disconnect your headphones before turning the amp on and before turning it off.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Your practice is correct. The OTL doesn't care if the headphones are plugged in or not. But if a tube blows when the amp is turned on or off, your headphones may not survive. And if you have the headphones on your head, your ears could be damaged. So protect your headphones and your ears. Disconnect your headphones before turning the amp on and before turning it off.


 I do exactly what Chrisdrop does, with one more caveat: When first plugging in the headphones I always start with an inexpensive pair in case something untoward happens.
Once I know that everything is how it should be I switch to the headphones of choice. I don’t wait more than a minute or so, and yes, it is tedious, but sure beats a blown driver in an expensive headphone.


----------



## triod750

Received a 6N12S from Bulgaria today. It is from 1956 and I wanted to know if there is a difference since they have a slightly different construction from the ones presented by gibosi. The side supports are at a level below the top mica and the bottles are about 4mm shorter. I am waiting for another from Moldovia that is upheld in customs. I put it in after cleaning the pins and it is silent. At least until the music is flowing. I cannot guarantee that the sound is of lesser quality than from the newer ones. Old people like me can say that tubes from 1962 are new, or at least newer. If I were to describe how they sound I would probably say that they are something in between Melz 6N8S/6H8C and 5687. But I don't want to say anything about how they sound. They are interesting and worth trying for anyone so inclined. They remind me of playing vinyl. It's very easy to differentiate between bad and good recordings.

But don't pay much attention to this. My hearing is slightly impaired and I don't have a GOTL. I just listen to music, right now a piano concerto. These 6N12S really make the most of the grand piano. It's quite obvious how powerful that instrument is.


----------



## triod750

This short bottle tube is most likely used and much more matured than the 1962 ones were. They needed a lot of time to become relaxed. They might even develop still after about 150 hours. Just a guess from what I am hearing now.


----------



## canfabulous

chrisdrop said:


> A quick survey of opinions;  Do you plug in headphones before turning amp on, or after? Power down the amp with the headphones plugged in?
> 
> Bottlehead & other amps suggestion is that you should turn amp on/ off with headphones plugged in and that this is less disturbing noise than otherwise.
> 
> My practice with the GOTL is only ever turn on/ off the amp w/ the headphones unplugged, but perhaps I have it backwards with this amp too!



Same - turn on and off without headphones plugged in, and I always turn the volume knob to zero before plugging/unplugging headphones.  Just small habbits to develop as muscle memory and I suspect the latter is more useful day to day as to not accidentally have your head blasted off by a high volume!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 11, 2020)

When I had the GOTL, I always turned on before plugging in and unplugged before turning off to ward off evil spirits  the specific fear is tube arcing, which the 5998 in particular is prone to, I have had more than a few arc across different OTL amplifiers, never any permanent damage, but others have not been so lucky, including our host.  So good practice with OTLs, less of an issue with SET amplifiers since voltages and noise are stepped down across the output transformer.


----------



## raindownthunda

L0rdGwyn said:


> When I had the GOTL, I always turned on before plugging in and unplugged before turning off to ward off evil spirits  the specific fear is tube arcing, which the 5998 in particular is prone to, I have had more than a few arc across different OTL amplifiers, never any permanent damage, but others have not been so lucky, including our host.  So good practice with OTLs, less of an issue with SET amplifiers since voltages and noise are stepped down across the output transformer.


What is the amount of minimum time you'd feel "safe" letting a 5998 warm up before switching to main headphones? Is it fair to assume that most tubes fail during warm up and that after warm up arcing won't/rarely happen? My routine with my bottlehead crack is to let it warm up for 60 seconds without any headphones plugged in. Then I'll connect an old Sony MDR-V6 to play some music on low for 10 minutes, before switching to a ZMF.


----------



## LoryWiv

gibosi said:


> Your practice is correct. The OTL doesn't care if the headphones are plugged in or not. But if a tube blows when the amp is turned on or off, your headphones may not survive. And if you have the headphones on your head, your ears could be damaged. So protect your headphones and your ears. Disconnect your headphones before turning the amp on and before turning it off.


This does seem very prudent and rationale, but with some amp designs (not necessarily OTL) there  may be a concern as discussed *here* in an older thread.  Pro's and con's, and potentially amp-design specific?


----------



## whirlwind

raindownthunda said:


> What is the amount of minimum time you'd feel "safe" letting a 5998 warm up before switching to main headphones? Is it fair to assume that most tubes fail during warm up and that after warm up arcing won't/rarely happen? My routine with my bottlehead crack is to let it warm up for 60 seconds without any headphones plugged in. Then I'll connect an old Sony MDR-V6 to play some music on low for 10 minutes, before switching to a ZMF.




I almost every tube that I have ever had go bad, seemed to happen at start-up.
I did have the filaments burn out in one Tung Sol 5998 while listening to music, one channel just faded away.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

raindownthunda said:


> What is the amount of minimum time you'd feel "safe" letting a 5998 warm up before switching to main headphones? Is it fair to assume that most tubes fail during warm up and that after warm up arcing won't/rarely happen? My routine with my bottlehead crack is to let it warm up for 60 seconds without any headphones plugged in. Then I'll connect an old Sony MDR-V6 to play some music on low for 10 minutes, before switching to a ZMF.



I would typically wait about a minute or two, as @whirlwind said, the issues with the 5998 seem to occur during the first 15-20 seconds or so of startup time, IME.



LoryWiv said:


> This does seem very prudent and rationale, but with some amp designs (not necessarily OTL) there  may be a concern as discussed *here* in an older thread.  Pro's and con's, and potentially amp-design specific?



Yes, there is an issue with OPT coupled designs related to having a load disconnected.  In a SET amplifier for example, there is a DC current running through the OPT primary winding at all times.  The voltage generated by this current is applied to the load reflected from the secondary of the OPT to the primary (headphones / speakers).  If the load is removed during operation, the voltage on the primary can spike to several times the B+ voltage, which can potentially lead to arcing in the OPT transformer and fry it.  This is only a real danger if the amplifier is being operating near or at clipping, as in a guitar amplifier, less of a concern with a hifi amplifier as we don't typically listen that loud.  

A common method to protect against this is to wire a resistor across the OPT output terminals in parallel with headphones / speakers such that there is always a load reflected to the primary even with no headphones / speakers connected, I use 470ohm in my SET amps.  OPT like Lundahl have high voltage insulation ratings too, so the danger of arcing is low.  With an OPT coupled amp, the danger would be if it was turned on without a load plugged in, the amp designer did not include any type of protection, the driver tubes are capable of driving the output tubes into clipping / cutoff, and the volume is turned up to the point of clipping / cutoff.


----------



## mordy

Based on all of the above it seems like a good idea to turn down the volume to zero on startup, in addition to the other precautions - easy to do and a no cost option......


----------



## L0rdGwyn

@mordy it can't hurt, but what I said only applies to transformer-coupled amps like Glenn's EL3N and 300B, and any SET amp made by Glenn will not be prone to this, he includes a protection resistor on the output transformer secondary and as I mentioned, Lundahl transformers have very high insulation ratings, so it is really a non-issue in Glenn's SET amps.


----------



## mordy

Personally I did not have problems with the 55998, but I had several different tubes making explosive popping sounds. These tubes were Sylvania 6SN7W and Tung Sol 6/12SN7GT BGRP.
The popping sounds were cured by heating the pins, but I blew out a driver before I understood how to take precautions.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> @mordy it can't hurt, but what I said only applies to transformer-coupled amps like Glenn's EL3N and 300B, and any SET amp made by Glenn will not be prone to this, he includes a protection resistor on the output transformer secondary and as I mentioned, Lundahl transformers have very high insulation ratings, so it is really a non-issue in Glenn's SET amps.


Thanks for the answer. Do you think that the explosive pops are something different than arcing?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Thanks for the answer. Do you think that the explosive pops are something different than arcing?



I have experienced the same thing with loose pin connections, most recently on my Mazda AC/HL drivers, tightening the pins fixed the issue.  Reheating the tube pins and reestablishing a good solder joint is essentially the same fix, I think it is related to one of the triode elements having a poor connection, so it is intermittently connected / disconnected, causing the pops as voltage is reapplied to the tube rapidly.  You'd have to take some measurements to see, but that is my best guess!


----------



## mordy

Thanks


----------



## leftside

A possible alternative to the Tak's for 300B owners:
https://www.europeanaudioteam.com/en/e.a.t.-300b-valve-wp000024.html

I haven't tried them. And I'm not about to start rolling 300B tubes. Best thing I ever did was buy a Glenn 300B - totally curtailed any tube rolling ideas I might have had


----------



## mordy

https://www.moon-audio.com/eat-300b-triode-vacuum-tube.html
*Product Warranty*
*Add product protection:*
1 Year
$61.49
2 Year
$98.49
3 Year
$119.99

$1695/pair


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> Best thing I ever did was buy a Glenn 300B - totally curtailed any tube rolling ideas I might have had


Didn't work for me... When I ordered EL3N amp from Glenn - my plan was exactly the same: no tube rolling!! EL3N tubes only.
Then, when spec'd my EL3N with Glenn, 6J5 drivers were added (in addition to EL3N), and KT66/EL34 power tubes were added (in addition to EL3N). So now, A LOT of tube rolling options, almost as bad (for my wallet) as the GOTL... sigh...


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Sep 13, 2020)

raindownthunda said:


> What is the amount of minimum time you'd feel "safe" letting a 5998 warm up before switching to main headphones? Is it fair to assume that most tubes fail during warm up and that after warm up arcing won't/rarely happen? My routine with my bottlehead crack is to let it warm up for 60 seconds without any headphones plugged in. Then I'll connect an old Sony MDR-V6 to play some music on low for 10 minutes, before switching to a ZMF.



30 seconds is all you should need to wait.  You're basically waiting for the tube to come on bias.  If it's going to misbehave that is when it will happen, the moment it starts conducting as the bias current first ramps up.  This process beings about 10-15 seconds after hitting the power button.


----------



## Velozity

leftside said:


> We're up to 22 on the possible group buy. I said it half in jest, but we might be able to pull it off. Only problem would be logistics and sending out each individual package to everyone.




I negotiated with the seller to buy 10 of these.  50 was just too many to deal with.  So I would assume if any of you also wish to buy smaller quantities from him directly he may do it.  I believe the seller has 100 total available.  I haven't found any information or pictures on the web so far about Cossor 6C5G tubes.  Maybe these are a rare tube that were found buried in a war bunker somewhere in the middle east.    If anyone has some history on or insight on this tube I'd love to know.   

https://www.ebay.com/itm/50x-6C5G-C...391811?hash=item5489c12e83:g:4GsAAOSwroxfSCFH


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Velozity said:


> I negotiated with the seller to buy 10 of these.  50 was just too many to deal with.  So I would assume if any of you also wish to buy smaller quantities from him directly he may do it.  I believe the seller has 100 total available.  I haven't found any information or pictures on the web so far about Cossor 6C5G tubes.  Maybe these are a rare tube that were found buried in a war bunker somewhere in the middle east.    If anyone has some history on or insight on this tube I'd love to know.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/50x-6C5G-C...391811?hash=item5489c12e83:g:4GsAAOSwroxfSCFH



Hard to say from the photos, but Cossor did a fair amount of rebranding, those may be Brimar 6C5G which did come with solid gray shields, here is a pic.  Regardless, they are nice tubes.


----------



## Velozity

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hard to say from the photos, but Cossor did a fair amount of rebranding, those may be Brimar 6C5G which did come with solid gray shields, here is a pic.  Regardless, they are nice tubes.



That would be awesome.  I've been trying to find more Brimar 6C5G and they've all apparently disappeared. 

By the way, I don't plan to keep all 10 of these so if anybody wants to share let me know.  Hoping they arrive within a month.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Velozity said:


> That would be awesome.  I've been trying to find more Brimar 6C5G and they've all apparently disappeared.
> 
> By the way, I don't plan to keep all 10 of these so if anybody wants to share let me know.  Hoping they arrive within a month.



The Brimars are very nice!  I have a couple pairs with mesh shields, the Cossor branding is pretty cool too, nice looking tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

Yeah, the Cossor branding is very nice.


----------



## gibosi

I recently made a modest change to my system that really pleases me. 

I have the OTL on a shelf and, up until now, if I wanted to adjust the volume I had to stumble out of my comfortable chair. Serendipitously, I recently found a used Schiit Saga with a stepped attenuator (64 steps) and a REMOTE!  Life is good! lol


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> I have the OTL on a shelf and, up until now, if I wanted to adjust the volume I had to stumble out of my comfortable chair. Serendipitously, I recently found a used Schiit Saga with a stepped attenuator (64 steps) and a REMOTE! Life is good! lol



You can always use the "GOTL Remote" for much less $$$...


----------



## hpamdr

gibosi said:


> I recently made a modest change to my system that really pleases me.
> 
> I have the OTL on a shelf and, up until now, if I wanted to adjust the volume I had to stumble out of my comfortable chair. Serendipitously, I recently found a used Schiit Saga with a stepped attenuator (64 steps) and a REMOTE!  Life is good! lol


 Personally, I do not have this issue as my dac(s) have remote to adjust output level and for sure it is very comfortable.
Just a question, do you use the saga in passive  mode as i do not see any tube in the saga socket.


----------



## gibosi

hpamdr said:


> Personally, I do not have this issue as my dac(s) have remote to adjust output level and for sure it is very comfortable.
> Just a question, do you use the saga in passive  mode as i do not see any tube in the saga socket.



Yes, I am using passive mode. I figure I have plenty of tube-goodness with the OTL and I don't need any more. But perhaps if I had a solid-state amp, it would be fun to roll tubes in the saga to add a little tube-flavor.


----------



## chrisdrop

Ferranti brand tubes. Anyone else have/seen/know anything about the brand?


----------



## gibosi

chrisdrop said:


> Ferranti brand tubes. Anyone else have/seen/know anything about the brand?



Ferranti was a British company, but I have not been able to find much information about it. I have a Ferranti 5U4G and it it looks (and sounds) different enough from other 5U4G that it doesn't appear to be a rebrand.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_hersteller_detail.cfm?company_id=6336

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ferranti_pegasus.html


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> Ferranti brand tubes. Anyone else have/seen/know anything about the brand?



I can tell you from the construction that those are rebranded Mullard 6J5GT, made in the Tottenham, London factory after Philips / Mullard acquired what was left of British Tungsram in 1952.  The spiked top mica is characteristic of Tungsram tubes, you can see it on other models.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Ferranti was a British company, but I have not been able to find much information about it. I have a Ferranti 5U4G and it it looks (and sounds) different enough from other 5U4G that it doesn't appear to be a rebrand.
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_hersteller_detail.cfm?company_id=6336
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ferranti_pegasus.html


Found another source re the history of Ferranti:
https://mullard.org/blogs/our-product-manufacturers/ferranti
The company lasted over 100 years and tube production started in 1929. The main emphasis was on engineering, heavy equipment and defence contracts over the years. There is a note that after WW2 they started to supply tubes to other manufacturers. Manufacturer of TV sets from 1936 to 1957.
Ferranti was a developer of the first computers which used tubes.
One item listed for 1926 caught my attention LOL:
1926 Start of production of electric fires


----------



## mordy

You know those pictures on the internet - somebody taking a picture moments before the accident....
Here is such a picture:



Switched the voltage switch to 12V since I am now trying a 1962 Sylvania 12AU7 (branded Baldwin) supported by a small army of Foton 6H8S tubes - sounds very good. And look at that beautiful tube glow!
I usually leave the GOTL on for many hours; with fans it runs very cool. The amp played for an hour or so and I went outside for an errand and came back inside: Horror! A terrible room shaking hum!
Threw myself on the blue halo elevator power switch - the hum went away but it continued playing for a little while. Never a dull moment! What's going on????
Yanked out the adapter with the 12AU7 - could it be a bad adapter? Nothing smells burnt...
Switched back to 6.3V and put in a known working adapter w/ tube - everything is fine! Big sigh of relief....
But what happened? I have this box of tubes with the same pinout and using the same adapter:
12AX7, 12AU7, 12AT7, 12AZ7, 12BH7, E180CC (courtesy Phantaminum), 5693.
Let's see, 6SN7 is 6.3V, 12SN7 is 12.6V - let's check these tubes:
Why in the world would a 12AU7 be 6.3V and all the 12s listed are 12.6V??? (The only other tube listed above that is not 12V is the E180CC).
So the nice tube glow came from a tube struggling with a tube-lethal dose of voltage.... 
Luckily I have a spare.
All is well again.
Did I mention that it sounds very good?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> You know those pictures on the internet - somebody taking a picture moments before the accident....
> Here is such a picture:
> 
> Switched the voltage switch to 12V since I am now trying a 1962 Sylvania 12AU7 (branded Baldwin) supported by a small army of Foton 6H8S tubes - sounds very good. And look at that beautiful tube glow!
> ...



I'm not sure I precisely understand what happened here...

But I think I will take this opportunity to remind folks that 12A-7 tubes can be configured to run as 6-volt or 12-volt tubes, depending on how the heaters are connected. And if the adapter is 12A-7 to 6SN7, then the heaters will be configured to operate in 6-volt circuits. But if the adapter is 12A-7 to 12SN7, the heaters will be configured to operate in 12-volt circuits.

Also, both the E180CC and the E80CC have the same pinout as the 12A-7s, and thus they too can be configured to operate in either 6-volt or 12-volt circuits.

Be careful out there.


----------



## mordy

I realized too late that the adapter was wired for 6.3V and unfortunately  used it with 12.6V.


----------



## triod750

And your music is on fire...


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 22, 2020)

I am reposting my GOTL GIF for no reason other than I just remembered it.  Some day I will do something with all of those OTL power tubes.

Are you working on any amplifiers right now, @2359glenn ?


----------



## mordy

triod750 said:


> And your music is on fire...


No smoke, no fire - just a horrendous *HUMMMMMMMMM* 
The funny thing is that the amp continued to play after I shut it off (capacitors have to discharge) so I sort of knew that it must be the tube and not the amp.


----------



## triod750

mordy said:


> No smoke, no fire - just a horrendous *HUMMMMMMMMM*
> The funny thing is that the amp continued to play after I shut it off (capacitors have to discharge) so I sort of knew that it must be the tube and not the amp.



I thought your musicians always were on fire...


----------



## maxpudding

Tube gone bad? luckily nothing exploded.


----------



## mordy

maxpudding said:


> Tube gone bad? luckily nothing exploded.


I think that the filament burnt out because of wrong voltage.


----------



## maxpudding

mordy said:


> I think that the filament burnt out because of wrong voltage.



Glad everything else is still okay though


----------



## mordy

R





maxpudding said:


> Glad everything else is still okay though


Everything is fine - the GOTL is making beautiful music.
Today’s roll is 6 x 6SN7 equivalents + one pair Ken-Rad 6J7 metal tubes - never thought of using 6 6SN7 tubes for power tubes until  gibosi used the Melz  tubes. Sounds very good.
The 6J7 is a sleeper - easy to get and very inexpensive; in triode mode it is the same as a 6C5. I use an adapter EL32 (same pinout as 6J7)  to C3g.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Today’s roll is 6 x 6SN7 equivalents + one pair Ken-Rad 6J7 metal tubes - never thought of using 6 6SN7 tubes for power tubes until gibosi used the Melz tubes. Sounds very good.


Are you just plugging the 6SN7 tubes to the 6080 / 6AS7 sockets with NO adapters? Can you post a photo?



mordy said:


> The 6J7 is a sleeper - easy to get and very inexpensive; in triode mode it is the same as a 6C5. I use an adapter EL32 (same pinout as 6J7) to C3g.


Interesting. I have Deyan's EL32 to C3g adapters, and never thought of trying the 6J7... Personally, I have was never happy with those top-cap tubes. Always picked up TONS of RF noise (mostly from WiFi, I suspect). Might give it a go if the 6J7 are very cheap and I already have the adapters anyhow...


----------



## Xcalibur255

The originally intended tube complement for the original Glenn Super 7 OTL is in fact all 6SN7 tubes.  Sort of like the Eddie Current amp that used the same concept.  I believe the original one made for Stavros was setup this way.  Another little known fact is that the old style OTLs like mine can technically take the 6BL7 in their output sockets, though it does run the tubes hard.  Not "pop" and then they go dark hard, but they probably don't last long at that level of dissipation.  I only ever tried it once and don't even remember if it sounded good or not anymore.  You can _also_ technically sub another 6AS7 into the driver socket in place of the 6SN7. This didn't sound very good and was an experiment that lasted for exactly the length of one song.


----------



## mordy (Sep 23, 2020)

Hi Zachik,
Here is your photo - the 6SN7 and equivalent tubes are just plug and play - no adapters needed (although I am using socket savers):




I have not had trouble from EMI/RF using the top cap anode wires; however, in the past people reported that it was easily corrected by applying ferrite beads to the wires. These are little capsules that snap on to the wires and are very inexpensive:



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cable-Clip...311998?hash=item3b4916f5fe:g:ThMAAOSwNeFeeJ4h


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> The originally intended tube complement for the original Glenn Super 7 OTL is in fact all 6SN7 tubes.  Sort of like the Eddie Current amp that used the same concept.  I believe the original one made for Stavros was setup this way.  Another little known fact is that the old style OTLs like mine can technically take the 6BL7 in their output sockets, though it does run the tubes hard.  Not "pop" and then they go dark hard, but they probably don't last long at that level of dissipation.  I only ever tried it once and don't even remember if it sounded good or not anymore.  You can _also_ technically sub another 6AS7 into the driver socket in place of the 6SN7. This didn't sound very good and was an experiment that lasted for exactly the length of one song.


I think I remember Glenn saying that the original configuration only had the 25V Brimar 13D1 tube as driver, but that could have been his personal first one.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Are you just plugging the 6SN7 tubes to the 6080 / 6AS7 sockets with NO adapters? Can you post a photo?



When I had the GOTL, I tried an all 6SN7 setup, just for the fun of it.  Think I did an ECC32 driver, 2x Sylvania 6SN7W metal base, 2x Sylvania 6SN7W short bottle, and 2x Sylvania VT-231.  Think I tried it with pairs of Brimar CV1988 and RFT 6SN7 too.  It sounded quite good actually!  But those are some expensive tubes, so just a quick listen and that was all  good times.


----------



## mordy

My contention is that you do not need expensive tubes for good sound; the Fotons from the 50's cost around $8 each and the 6J7 less than $3 each, all including shipping.
However, I believe that the Fotons shot up in price once people discovered them. But the 6J7 are still bargains....


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> When I had the GOTL, I tried an all 6SN7 setup, just for the fun of it.  Think I did an ECC32 driver, 2x Sylvania 6SN7W metal base, 2x Sylvania 6SN7W short bottle, and 2x Sylvania VT-231.  Think I tried it with pairs of Brimar CV1988 and RFT 6SN7 too.  It sounded quite good actually!  But those are some expensive tubes, so just a quick listen and that was all  good times.



Ha. Could you imagine running six Sylvania 6SN7W metal base......back up the Brinks truck


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Ha. Could you imagine running six Sylvania 6SN7W metal base......back up the Brinks truck


6 B65's.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> 6 B65's.



Or how about 6 ECC32? With 0.9amp heaters, they should work a bit better than 6SN7 types.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> 6 B65's.



Ouch!





gibosi said:


> Or how about 6 ECC32? With 0.9amp heaters, they should work a bit better than 6SN7 types.



Six of all of the tubes mentioned Sylvania 6SN7W metal base...six B65....six ECC32........those 18 tubes are going to send a guy to see a loan officer


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> I have not had trouble from EMI/RF using the top cap anode wires; however, in the past people reported that it was easily corrected by applying ferrite beads to the wires. These are little capsules that snap on to the wires and are very inexpensive:


Thanks for the photo mordy.
As for the ferrite beads - they did NOT solve my RF / EMI issue in the past. Experiment was NOT on the GOTL but rather on CTH or Lyr3 (cannot remember at the moment).


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> My contention is that you do not need expensive tubes for good sound; the Fotons from the 50's cost around $8 each and the *6J7 less than $3 each, all including shipping*.
> However, I believe that the Fotons shot up in price once people discovered them. But the 6J7 are still bargains....


Were those prices from same time a gallon of gas used to cost $0.24 ?!
Quick search on eBay... cheapest used (non-NOS) is $6-7 per tube (so almost $15 per pair), and if NOS is desired - $10 / tube minimum...
Won't break the bank, but not "*$3 each, all including shipping*". Just saying 
(unless you have a secret source, other than eBay)


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Hi Zachik,
> Here is your photo - the 6SN7 and equivalent tubes are just plug and play - no adapters needed (although I am using socket savers):
> 
> I have not had trouble from EMI/RF using the top cap anode wires; however, in the past people reported that it was easily corrected by applying ferrite beads to the wires. These are little capsules that snap on to the wires and are very inexpensive:
> ...



I just recently got a pair of Ken Rad 6J7's.  They're great tubes, and were quite cheap.  Also using them in the C3g slots.  Here is one of them:




I haven't tried the 6SN7 as power tubes yet.  It turns out that most of my SN7 tubes are 12SN7's.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Ouch!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



5687's are considerably less expensive, but six adapters would also be needed.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Were those prices from same time a gallon of gas used to cost $0.24 ?!
> Quick search on eBay... cheapest used (non-NOS) is $6-7 per tube (so almost $15 per pair), and if NOS is desired - $10 / tube minimum...
> Won't break the bank, but not "*$3 each, all including shipping*". Just saying
> (unless you have a secret source, other than eBay)


I really paid those prices a few months ago for the 6J7 tubes - here is my "secret": I look for small lots of tubes instead of buying pairs or individual tubes.
Granted that tube prices are creeping up, but I scanned through some offerings now and you can still get the 6J7 for around $5 each shipped. Here is my proof - a Canadian seller that has a lot of 7 tubes; the price of each comes out to USD5.04.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-SEV...913446?hash=item4453fdbaa6:g:AJQAAOSwSw5eP0SY
When trying out something new I like getting an assortment of brands to get to know how the different brands sound - if something strikes my fancy I can always look for a NOS pair.
And if the prices aren't in the ballpark, it may pay to wait - new offerings always seem to come up, even of less common tubes. After all, they made the tubes in the millions....
Just checked now - eBay will not show shipping cost for older purchases, but in February 2020 I paid $4.99 for 7 x 6J7 + shipping, and in March 2020 I paid $15 for 8 x Ken-Rad 6J7 + shipping.


----------



## mordy (Sep 23, 2020)

With all due respect to serious tube amplifier owners, I do not understand why only expensive tubes are being taken into consideration. A pair of GE 6C5 metal tubes can sound almost as good as GEC L63 tubes, at a fraction of the cost, as an example.
To me the challenge is to find inexpensive tubes that can compete with the best and most expensive ones.
I have a box of bargain 6SN7 tubes (bought when gas was $3.75/gallon lol - (remember those days, and standing in line to get gas?) - paid a couple of bucks for each, maybe $3-7. Wonder how it would sound if I put in 6 of them, mix and match....?
https://www.npr.org/2011/04/21/135605266/-4-a-gallon-gas-prices-whos-to-blame
Yes - this was 2011.....24c/gallon was in the late 40's


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Hmmm having followed this thread for some time now, I don't think ONLY expensive tubes are under consideration, seems there is quite a variety discussed here.  But tube rollers are always chasing the "next best thing", and that often is the next most expensive thing on the list as it was previously just out of reach.  No doubt great sound can be had for low prices and diminishing returns kick in very quickly for high-end tubes, but many people want the absolute "best" out there, which often means spending 10x more money for a lot less than 10x the performance.  Just my $0.02.


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> I think I remember Glenn saying that the original configuration only had the 25V Brimar 13D1 tube as driver, but that could have been his personal first one.



He built and sold a couple this way.  This was before anybody here on Head-fi got one.  He used to build and sell an OTL on eBay occassionally before he became known here.  There is a lot of wisdom in that orignal configuration too.  The Brimar 13D1 is right up there with all the best sounding tubes and are so much cheaper than their 6V counterparts.  Assuming one didn't care that much about tube rolling it delivered great bang for the buck, very much in keeping with Glenn's original philosophy of keeping things "cheep".  

To the best of my knowledge nobody on this forum has the original 1.0 version OTL he was selling on eBay.  I think John, Clayton and myself were the original first three owners of the version 1.1 OTL that was first sold and talked about on Head-fi.  The driver socket was changed to 6V for 6SN7 usage and a second filter choke was added to try to lower the noise floor a bit since the mains transformer in those models likes to hum and seems susceptible to certain kinds of interference.

And now look at how far we have come since then.  The OG version is still a super amp.  I listen to mine everyday at work.  There is a certain "rightness" to it's tone and overall voicing that is impossible to find in a retail product at that price.


----------



## mordy

Thanks for your answer and sharing this information.


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> With all due respect to serious tube amplifier owners, I do not understand why only expensive tubes are being taken into consideration. A pair of GE 6C5 metal tubes can sound almost as good as GEC L63 tubes, at a fraction of the cost, as an example.
> To me the challenge is to find inexpensive tubes that can compete with the best and most expensive ones.
> I have a box of bargain 6SN7 tubes (bought when gas was $3.75/gallon lol - (remember those days, and standing in line to get gas?) - paid a couple of bucks for each, maybe $3-7. Wonder how it would sound if I put in 6 of them, mix and match....?
> https://www.npr.org/2011/04/21/135605266/-4-a-gallon-gas-prices-whos-to-blame
> Yes - this was 2011.....24c/gallon was in the late 40's



I do think we can sometimes get lost while chasing the ideal sound.  Some years ago I ran across an eBay seller who was selling a random hodgepodge of single 6SN7s for next to nothing.  It was literally a random box 'o tubes.  For less than $30 I had so much fun rolling all of them in the OTL and hearing all the different flavors.  I eventually ended up giving all but one of those tubes away over time because I only wanted "the best" ones to stay in my collection.  I'm not sure when I started feeling that way about it but it's probably not such a good thing.  The joy is leaving the hobby when all you think about is min/maxing it.

The weirdest thing is the only tube I kept, a Hytron (branded Corsair which is just too cool), I don't even like all that much.  The tone never seems right for whatever I'm trying to pair it with.  Maybe just bad luck.


----------



## whirlwind

Glenns amps sound fantastic with cheap tubes and I agree that the 25 volt Brimar 13D1 is a great tube, really good IMO.
Much cheaper than B36 and tons cheaper than B65.

I have recently received my ZMF VC and I have been burning it in with some cheaper tubes  and it sounds killer!
Using a pair of Chatham 6AS7G power tubes, I used to get these from Leeds Audio for $35 a set and own a few sets, that is why I chose these power tubes.
Using a pair of Arcturus (RCA) 6J5G driver tubes...listening to this with not many hours on the headphones and not what would be considered the greatest of tubes....this is still one of the best sounds that I have ever personally heard...great stuff!

For the price Glenn charges for his amps, I can't imagine a better bang for the dollar out there.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> For the price Glenn charges for his amps, I can't imagine a better bang for the dollar out there.


Luckily for us, Glenn does not seem to be in it for the money...  
My 2 Glenn amps are definitely irreplaceable!


----------



## Velozity

Speaking of "cheep tubes", you guys should really give the 6C4 a shot.  Before I even heard a 6C5 / 6J5, my 6C4 experiment sounded good enough for me to get rid of all of my 6SN7 tubes.  The GE JG-6100 triple mica and MOV CV133 are very special.  Also love the Brimar and Mullard.


----------



## chrisdrop

Any of you clever gents have an idea if these are likely to be rebrands or actual Fivre manufactured? 

these


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> Any of you clever gents have an idea if these are likely to be rebrands or actual Fivre manufactured?
> 
> these



Those are legitimate Fivre


----------



## gibosi

It's been pretty quiet here for awhile... So in a small attempt to fill the void...

A 6-pack of Melz 6H12C (6N12S) remain installed as output tubes in the OTL and I am slowly rolling through different drivers and rectifiers.

And as I find this tube to be rather dry and lean, to my ears it pairs very nicely with more euphonic drivers and rectifiers. So today I rolled in a Philips Holland-made GZ34 and an early black glass Ken-Rad 6SN7GT (1942 with heat radiators above the top mica) and I can't remember the Ken-Rad ever sounding this good.


----------



## triod750

Transparent is the word is the word is the word...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

It has been very quiet in this thread, I think it is in part because much of the tube rolling discussion has moved since 6J5 are in vogue.

I do have many pictures of my old amp, looking through them I thought this one turned out well.  The Toshiba 6BX7GT heaters have a very prominent glow, made more prominent in a long-exposure photo.


----------



## Karnicopia (Sep 29, 2020)

I have really been all about the GEC 6080 and Fivre 6j5. I've been a pretty devout Bendix guy but I really love the sound of the GEC and I actually like the Fivre with them it adds nice high end detail and the GEC just seem really well balanced, spacious and dynamic but add a nice warmth so really liking this balance.

I also picked up a Pi2AES as a source and am really enjoying that so if anyone is interested it's basically an audio board that connects to a raspberry pi and provides a low noise AES source into your DAC that you can stream to or have it host local storage or act as a roon endpoint etc. It was really easy to put together, reasonably priced and improved the sound of things when I had already done a lot of work isolating things through optical so I thought it was a great piece of equipment. They have a nice thread on it on a webpage I think I'm not supposed to link to but it's probably one of the better investments I've made in audio because it just sounds amazing and is really convenient and flexible as it seems like there are a lot of people writing audio OS on the platform.


----------



## DecentLevi

Me and a few users have been trying to reach @2359glenn . I've waited over a year now with the build date for my SET amp pushed back substantially and no updates for quite a while. With all these rare and special tubes I got for it and $500 of adapters I've already had handmade for it, I'd really hate to jump ship now - plus I would be honored to give some recognition to Glenn's fine works on his lesser known but highly acclaimed SET amp builds! I know he's been in a hard spot lately but I really need a definite timeline to continue the course.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

DecentLevi said:


> Me and a few users have been trying to reach @2359glenn . I've waited over a year now with the build date for my SET amp pushed back substantially and no updates for quite a while. With all these rare and special tubes I got for it and $500 of adapters I've already had handmade for it, I'd really hate to jump ship now - plus I would be honored to give some recognition to Glenn's fine works on his lesser known but highly acclaimed SET amp builds! I know he's been in a hard spot lately but I really need a definite timeline to continue the course.


My amp built is also in queue after yours, I have been trying to reach @2359glenn from some time now to get some timeline as well as discussion over the design of the amp, last I heard from him was on 1st Sept 2020. It seems his new job is quite demanding. I was planning to buy tubes & adapters but kept it on hold due to the delays. I would wait like I have waited so far but yes a timeline on built & some updated would really help in passing this period. Hope he is safe & doing fine. Hoping to hear from him at the earliest.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I think Glenn has been very busy at work, long hours and little personal time, it has been a strange year with COVID shaking everything up, many job and lifestyle changes for everyone, hopefully things will improve in 2021.


----------



## maxpudding (Sep 29, 2020)

I got in touch with him a couple of days ago, his new job is very demanding as you guys have heard, but he's slowly building amps again. As LG said, he has little personal time due to the nature of the new job. I guess we all need to be a bit more patient. I for one have no idea where I am at in the queue, but in the meantime, I've started exploring other tube amps and collecting tubes. Hopefully, I'll also get a chance to own a GOTL somewhere in the future.

Keep safe, everyone.


----------



## audiofest2018

I am in a similar boat but I know my order is on the very top of the queue now ( I think!).   With more than a year of waiting, I don't mind continue to wait as I know how things are these days and how busy Glenn has been these days.  I have made several audio purchased this year and almost in every case they all end up being delayed for a long time.  Seem like a new norm for 2020 but do hope 2021 will be better.  Last time I talked to him regarding my order was back in August.  He said the same like @maxpudding said in his message.  I have also purchased some tubes and adaptors for my upcoming Glenn amp and have to put a hold for now.  I also understand how people feel unease for waiting a long time and had put some significant investment in for the amp.  Luckily I do have other tube amps that I can play with while I am waiting mine to be built...  

Sincerely hope things will work out eventually for Glenn and everyone like me waiting for Glenn amp.


----------



## raindownthunda

I have been waiting in Glenn's queue for 11 months now and am fine waiting for as long as it takes. I feel like this thread, and pretty much everyone I've PMed asking for advice, has consistently done a good job of setting expectations for interested newcomers that Glenn's studio is a one-man-show and a side project, and that time to deliver can vary widely. I was cautioned by many people to expect over a year wait before I put down a deposit. I would hope one would know what they are getting into as they are planning their build and learning what the process is like working with Glenn. 

I can empathize for Glenn... This is his passion and he wants to build amps... As we all know, life has an unfortunate way of getting crazy sometimes with very little personal time. From my correspondence with Glenn (and what others have said) he has a lot going on in life right now - it's not like he is scamming us. I admire the way he values his work-life balance and would rather him not be on here if he needs to take care of stuff in his personal life


----------



## leftside

Karnicopia said:


> I also picked up a Pi2AES as a source and am really enjoying that so if anyone is interested it's basically an audio board that connects to a raspberry pi and provides a low noise AES source into your DAC that you can stream to or have it host local storage or act as a roon endpoint etc.


That's a great option to turn a DAC into a Roon endpoint/streamer. There are companies out there that will add a fancy box and brand name to such a device and add a 0 or more to the price.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> I think Glenn has been very busy at work, long hours and little personal time, it has been a strange year with COVID shaking everything up, many job and lifestyle changes for everyone, hopefully things will improve in 2021.




Amen brother, I just want to forget 2020...A lot has to change for next year to be a huge step up...I sure hope we make progress.

You have always needed to have patience and other gear to listen to when waiting for one of Glenn's amps, trust me I know , I own two of them....but eventually you reap the reward.  

The way the world is now and the way Glenn's life got turned upside down with his job, life definitely is not as normal as it once was.

Glenn may have more  people wanting amps now than ever before so who knows how long the queue is...plus everybody may be wanting a different build ect...ect...


----------



## 2359glenn

Trying to get back to normal building but this new job is killing my life.
These 50 to 60 year old machines are killing me at least the updated ones.
The really old machines with tubes give no problems. I can bring my noisy 6SN7s to work and use them in a machine.
two 6SN7 driving a 6012 thyratron tube that drives the Eddie current coil in the motor to control the speed. https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/077/6/6012.pdf/
I don't think anyone knows about a Eddie current drive is anymore except a old fart like me, They are tube and give me no problems.
Knock on wood. I shouldn't have said that.
The ones that were upgraded to SS PLC are another story problems. But the very old SS DC motor drives are better then the new ones
for not having problems.


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> Trying to get back to normal building but this new job is killing my life.
> These 50 to 60 year old machines are killing me at least the updated ones.
> The really old machines with tubes give no problems. I can bring my noisy 6SN7s to work and use them in a machine.
> two 6SN7 driving a 6012 thyratron tube that drives the Eddie current coil in the motor to control the speed. https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/077/6/6012.pdf/
> ...



More information on the 6012:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6012.html

http://tube-data.com/sheets/049/6/6012.pdf


----------



## L0rdGwyn

2359glenn said:


> Trying to get back to normal building but this new job is killing my life.
> These 50 to 60 year old machines are killing me at least the updated ones.
> The really old machines with tubes give no problems. I can bring my noisy 6SN7s to work and use them in a machine.
> two 6SN7 driving a 6012 thyratron tube that drives the Eddie current coil in the motor to control the speed. https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/077/6/6012.pdf/
> ...



I know what Eddie Current is Glenn, those guys who make the really expensive tube amps, right? https://eddiecurrent.com/

Just kidding, sounds like a very specific skillset to service these machines, you are the right guy for the job, just don't work too hard.  Hopefully there is an end in sight where the machines are running as well as they can.


----------



## Karnicopia (Sep 30, 2020)

leftside said:


> That's a great option to turn a DAC into a Roon endpoint/streamer. There are companies out there that will add a fancy box and brand name to such a device and add a 0 or more to the price.



I agree and it's just remarkable how much you get for so little the whole thing is like $250 to put together you can download whatever software you like and change things as needed it's convenient and it improved the sound. I don't know how many times you can say that kind of thing in audio but I think it's pretty amazing. As far as audio quality you can power the audio board separately from the PI board (I am doing this since it's really easy to do) and then the AES connection can reject noise so it's a great source. I guess you can even run it off of battery power if you are really worried but I have no problems with it as is and I'm just really enjoying the convenience of being able to use anything as a interface, phone computer ipad really anything can control it but at the same time it improved the sound of things.

It isn't a drastic improvement but I noticed a big improvement going from USB to isolating using optical and this may not have been as big of a jump as that was but it was a similar one where it felt like it removed a layer of distortion, blackened the background which created better separation. It felt like more spaciousness but I think it was more that each note was more distinct type of thing than the soundstage was bigger but the effect was it felt like the soundstage was bigger. If people have a quality source maybe you don't hear this kind of difference but for me at this price the thing is amazing.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> You know those pictures on the internet - somebody taking a picture moments before the accident....
> Here is such a picture:
> 
> Switched the voltage switch to 12V since I am now trying a 1962 Sylvania 12AU7 (branded Baldwin) supported by a small army of Foton 6H8S tubes - sounds very good. And look at that beautiful tube glow!
> ...


Took a bit of a break from tubes and now slowly returning to tube rolling only to find that i kinda forgot stuff over time but luckily i took notes on what tube goes  with what adapter because it can be problematic  so i need a good refresher lol . By the way  tonight's setup  . 5998 as power tubes , Ken Rad 6SN7GT VT-231 as drivers and a Philips Miniwatt GZ32  Rectifier .Sorry not a Glenn Amp but tubes are tubes lol .


----------



## mordy

MIKELAP said:


> Took a bit of a break from tubes and now slowly returning to tube rolling only to find that i kinda forgot stuff over time but luckily i took notes on what tube goes  with what adapter because it can be problematic  so i need a good refresher lol . By the way  tonight's setup  . 5998 as power tubes , Ken Rad 6SN7GT VT-231 as drivers and a Philips Miniwatt GZ32  Rectifier .Sorry not a Glenn Amp but tubes are tubes lol .


Hi Mikelap,
Good to hear from you! It is so interesting to me that the old gang from the Little Dot days all upgraded to better amps. It was a good learning experience and we did some wild tube rolling and experimentation - I don't think any of us are ready to cut off pins and use jumper wires in the sockets any more!


----------



## ashwinvyas1981 (Oct 1, 2020)

Well since GOTL was not coming soon enough, so needed something to satisfy the craving for toobs. I ended up with this beautiful custom 45 DHT amp called Otomon. The price to performance ratio is off the charts & these 45s are phenomenal. Great synergy with Arya as well as Auteurs. This uses 717A as drivers & 5Z3, 80s' as rectifier.
EDIT: In transit it was damaged beyond recognition but a genius here in India repaired it, that is the reason the structural stiffness is not there now. The Trafo wt is doing its job (the slight tilt) . Planning to add some support to compensate this shortly.


----------



## hpamdr

MIKELAP said:


> Took a bit of a break from tubes and now slowly returning to tube rolling only to find that i kinda forgot stuff over time but luckily i took notes on what tube goes  with what adapter because it can be problematic  so i need a good refresher lol . By the way  tonight's setup  . 5998 as power tubes , Ken Rad 6SN7GT VT-231 as drivers and a Philips Miniwatt GZ32  Rectifier .Sorry not a Glenn Amp but tubes are tubes lol .


Hi Mike,
You are on the dark side with both KR VT-231 and 5998.. With HD800s it is a very good setup for 70s pop/folk or blues.

I've also stopped to do too many tube experiment. Anyhow, I defined a kind of neutral setup with GEC 6080 as power and Visseaux 6J5MG as driver on Euforia driving HD800s..
With this setup as reference, I'm refreshing my notes about tube combination slowly and not with tube rolling excitement.  
_And guess what, standard tube combination is not that bad..._


----------



## MIKELAP

gibosi said:


> 6H12C data sheet
> 
> I can't read Russian, but it appears that the heater is 0.9 amp and the amplification factor is 17, so not quite equal to the 6BL7, but close. A 6-pack is working fine for me.


   Received  2 pairs of Melz 6H12C (1964?)printed 64 next to Melz  .WA22  drivers can handle up to 1A\channel  .Like them pretty clean sounding not the most bassy but still nice                                                                                                                                                                  .


----------



## triod750

MIKELAP said:


> Received  2 pairs of Melz 6H12C (1964?)printed 64 next to Melz  .WA22  drivers can handle up to 1A\channel  .Like them pretty clean sounding not the most bassy but still nice                                                                                                                                                                  .



I suspect that you will find the year -62 on the glass at about five o'clock with the 'M' for Melz in the center. The  V M 64 is something else I think.


----------



## mordy

triod750 said:


> I suspect that you will find the year -62 on the glass at about five o'clock with the 'M' for Melz in the center. The  V M 64 is something else I think.


It also has the month in Roman numerals - mine says VIII-62 (August). I like these tubes - very even frequency response and very detailed and bring clarity to the presentation. 
As always YMMV - every amp is different and the same tube may sound different in the WOO compared to the GOTL.


----------



## gibosi

MIKELAP said:


> Received  2 pairs of Melz 6H12C (1964?)printed 64 next to Melz  .WA22  drivers can handle up to 1A\channel  .Like them pretty clean sounding not the most bassy but still nice                                                                                                                                                                  .



Yes, your 6H12C are 1962 vintage. And I think I see a pair of GE 5998A and a Mullard GZ32?


----------



## gibosi

MIKELAP said:


> Received  2 pairs of Melz 6H12C (1964?)printed 64 next to Melz  .WA22  drivers can handle up to 1A\channel  .Like them pretty clean sounding not the most bassy but still nice                                                                                                                                                                  .



And I would encourage you to run four as output tubes. I use six, and I find them to be very transparent and detailed in this position.


----------



## whirlwind

I totally love the Mullard GZ32...it flies under the radar so to speak as far as rectifiers go.

I need to snag a couple more of these, but am pretty dang broke at the moment


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I totally love the Mullard GZ32...it flies under the radar so to speak as far as rectifiers go.
> 
> I need to snag a couple more of these, but am pretty dang broke at the moment



And I agree. It's usually not all that expensive and of Mullard's 5-volt rectifers, I much prefer the GZ32 to the GZ33 or GZ37.


----------



## MIKELAP

gibosi said:


> And I would encourage you to run four as output tubes. I use six, and I find them to be very transparent and detailed in this position.


I haven't checked yet but do they have adapters for this ?. I also have these double 6BL7 adapters that i used in the power tube section ,by any chance would the 6H12C work with these adapters ? Since they compare them to the 6BL7


----------



## triod750 (Oct 2, 2020)

6H12C has the same pinout as 6SN7.

Should have said that 6BL7 has the same pinout too.


----------



## MIKELAP (Oct 2, 2020)

gibosi said:


> Yes, your 6H12C are 1962 vintage. And I think I see a pair of GE 5998A and a Mullard GZ32?


Actually the GE's are 6AS7GA and the GZ32(Blackburn 1960)like you say is Mullard made labeled Philips Miniwatt


----------



## MIKELAP

MIKELAP said:


> I haven't checked yet but do they have adapters for this ?. I also have these double 6BL7 adapters that i used in the power tube section ,by any chance would the 6H12C work with these adapters ? Since they compare them to the 6BL7


Ok i found the answer 7 pages back. Gibosi you had answered this question lol . Im getting old 65 this year . Thanks lol


----------



## gibosi (Oct 2, 2020)

MIKELAP said:


> I haven't checked yet but do they have adapters for this ?. I also have these double 6BL7 adapters that i used in the power tube section ,by any chance would the 6H12C work with these adapters ? Since they compare them to the 6BL7



Yes, you can use the same adapter for 6BX7, 6BL7 and 6H12C. So I would encourage you to try four 6H12C as output tubes and a pair of black-glass Ken-Rad 6SN7GT as drivers. That will give you the bass you were missing.


----------



## gibosi

MIKELAP said:


> Ok i found the answer 7 pages back. Gibosi you had answered this question lol . Im getting old 65 this year . Thanks lol



Don't say that! I'm older than you are! lol


----------



## MIKELAP

gibosi said:


> Yes, you can use the same adapter for 6BX7, 6BL7 and 6H12C. So I would encourage you to try four 6H12C as output tubes and a pair of black-glass Ken-Rad 6SN7GT as drivers. That will give you the bass you were missing.


Will give it a try .Thanks


----------



## MIKELAP

Very nice sounding and like mordy says plenty of detail and clarity .Gould thing i bought 4 of them .I like them better as power tubes as for the headphones  so far i like this setup better with the Senns 800S rather than the Grado RS2E a bit to much clarity .


----------



## gibosi

MIKELAP said:


> Very nice sounding and like mordy says plenty of detail and clarity .Gould thing i bought 4 of them .I like them better as power tubes as for the headphones  so far i like this setup better with the Senns 800S rather than the Grado RS2E a bit to much clarity .



I'm running a 6-pack of 6H12C, a Philips (Sittard) GZ34 and a Ken-Rad 6SN7GT, and I am enjoying it so much that I can't bring myself to try a different driver.


----------



## whirlwind

If anybody here have any RCA 42EC4 tubes  for sale....hit me up....mostly 300B owners I would assume.


----------



## maxpudding

I've got some tubes bought from various eBay sellers and shipped with USPS. Been stuck for almost a month at their international distribution centres. Reading through Reddit, I realize I am not the only one facing this problem, and it seems to affect a lot of people, even for domestic parcels/letters. Anyone else facing the same issue?


----------



## MIKELAP

maxpudding said:


> I've got some tubes bought from various eBay sellers and shipped with USPS. Been stuck for almost a month at their international distribution centres. Reading through Reddit, I realize I am not the only one facing this problem, and it seems to affect a lot of people, even for domestic parcels/letters. Anyone else facing the same issue?


Received tubes from Europe took14 business days to Montreal,Canada


----------



## MIKELAP (Oct 5, 2020)

Been using 2 pairs of  6H12C tubes with my double tube adapters with WA22 . Funny thing is happening i started getting this clicking sound when using these tubes if i resort back to 6BL7 tubes no clicking sound tried each 6H12C pair as drivers no problem .I must say i reseated tubes and it was ok this morning no go .
Tested connections on adapters all good . Any ideas ?


----------



## mordy

MIKELAP said:


> Been using 2 pairs of  6H12C tubes with my double tube adapters with WA22 . Funny thing is happening i started getting this clicking sound when using these tubes if i resort back to 6BL7 tubes no clicking sound tried each 6H12C pair as drivers no problem .I must say i reseated tubes and it was ok this morning no go .
> Tested connections on adapters all good . Any ideas ?


I have one pair of the 6H12C tubes and they started to make crackling sounds. The only thing I can think of is to reheat the pins with a soldering iron which I am going to try.
You hold the tube horizontally and touch each pin with a 30W soldering iron for 30 seconds. Reflowing the solder may help. Triod750 had god luck fixing 6H12C tubes with this method.


----------



## mordy

maxpudding said:


> I've got some tubes bought from various eBay sellers and shipped with USPS. Been stuck for almost a month at their international distribution centres. Reading through Reddit, I realize I am not the only one facing this problem, and it seems to affect a lot of people, even for domestic parcels/letters. Anyone else facing the same issue?



Are the tubes stuck in customs? Which city?


----------



## maxpudding

mordy said:


> Are the tubes stuck in customs? Which city?



A couple of tubes stuck in Jamaica NY, and the other ones are in Chicago. Those tubes are supposed to be headed to Malaysia.

My guess there are several factors impacting the service, hope it'll resume to normal again soon.

Apart from tubes, I bought an adapter cable from articcables, it is also stuck in Chicago, Val told me these days the usual delivery rate is 2 to 3 month, what a nightmare.


----------



## maxpudding

MIKELAP said:


> Received tubes from Europe took14 business days to Montreal,Canada



Delivery from Europe is fine I guess, ordered tubes from Langrex and they are on their way


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've got stuff I bought from Japan that's been sitting there (paid for) since March now.


----------



## triod750

mordy said:


> I have one pair of the 6H12C tubes and they started to make crackling sounds. The only thing I can think of is to reheat the pins with a soldering iron which I am going to try.
> You hold the tube horizontally and touch each pin with a 30W soldering iron for 30 seconds. Reflowing the solder may help. Triod750 had god luck fixing 6H12C tubes with this method.



I had one 6H12C that developed some noise after maybe 100 hours. The Mordy soldering iron method took care of the problem. No unwanted sound anymore, just delightful music. After almost 200 hours of use they seem to still sound better and better. I am using them as output tubes with C3g as input in a non-GOTL amp. Right now I'm listening to Tony Joe White and he never sounded this good before. Mind you, acoustical music is my priority when evaluating tubes.


----------



## MIKELAP (Oct 5, 2020)

mordy said:


> I have one pair of the 6H12C tubes and they started to make crackling sounds. The only thing I can think of is to reheat the pins with a soldering iron which I am going to try.
> You hold the tube horizontally and touch each pin with a 30W soldering iron for 30 seconds. Reflowing the solder may help. Triod750 had god luck fixing 6H12C tubes with this method.


Thats an idea but still when i use them as drivers not a sound. Hmmmm .Thanks guys


----------



## GDuss

Hey @chrisdrop ,

I bought some of those springs you have under your GOTL to test out what a low-budget anti-vibration system can do.  They seem a bit stiff, but I put in as many springs as each of the pucks holds.  Do you use all the available springs in each one or do you use less?  Seems like it might be a bit more cushion with less springs in each of the 4 supports.  Or maybe it needs more under the transformer, and less on the opposite side?  

Maybe this is the start of "spring rolling"   .  I like spring rolls.

Just so everyone knows what I'm referring to:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K9ZYP84/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## maxpudding

GDuss said:


> Hey @chrisdrop ,
> 
> I bought some of those springs you have under your GOTL to test out what a low-budget anti-vibration system can do.  They seem a bit stiff, but I put in as many springs as each of the pucks holds.  Do you use all the available springs in each one or do you use less?  Seems like it might be a bit more cushion with less springs in each of the 4 supports.  Or maybe it needs more under the transformer, and less on the opposite side?
> 
> ...


 
Spring rolls are tasty


----------



## mordy

GDuss said:


> Hey @chrisdrop ,
> 
> I bought some of those springs you have under your GOTL to test out what a low-budget anti-vibration system can do.  They seem a bit stiff, but I put in as many springs as each of the pucks holds.  Do you use all the available springs in each one or do you use less?  Seems like it might be a bit more cushion with less springs in each of the 4 supports.  Or maybe it needs more under the transformer, and less on the opposite side?
> 
> ...


Can you hear any difference, either when tapping the deck of the amp or when using a microphonic tube? Or just in general?


----------



## chrisdrop (Oct 7, 2020)

GDuss said:


> Hey @chrisdrop ,
> 
> I bought some of those springs you have under your GOTL to test out what a low-budget anti-vibration system can do.  They seem a bit stiff, but I put in as many springs as each of the pucks holds.  Do you use all the available springs in each one or do you use less?  Seems like it might be a bit more cushion with less springs in each of the 4 supports.  Or maybe it needs more under the transformer, and less on the opposite side?
> 
> ...


Those are the ones I have exactly. I hope they are doing something for your setup.

I am really big on spring-rolling. There is an entire community here that is into vintage springs. I find that if you understand things like Hooke's Law you can get an optimal acoustic experience. The preference is for pre-war springs is strong. Here is a pair of NOS WW2 springs (LOL - really labelled "NOS"!). Good ones are hard to come by. The eBay market for them has been taking off.

 That was fun 

I like the idea of using fewer springs as you suggest. I've only done so by accident (they are hard to move around once the amp is on them, as I am sure you will have experienced already!). I've not really experimented much with this as just using them did make a reasonable difference for me.


----------



## maxpudding

chrisdrop said:


> Those are the ones I have exactly. I hope they are doing something for your setup.
> 
> I am really big on spring-rolling. There is an entire community here that is into vintage springs. I find that if you understand things like Hooke's Law you can get an optimal acoustic experience. The preference is for pre-war springs is strong. Here is a pair of NOS WW2 springs (LOL - really labelled "NOS"!).
> 
> ...



Thanks for the introduction, this reminds me of “The Detectorists” and its quirky community of metal...detectorists?


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Those are the ones I have exactly. I hope they are doing something for your setup.
> 
> I am really big on spring-rolling. There is an entire community here that is into vintage springs. I find that if you understand things like Hooke's Law you can get an optimal acoustic experience. The preference is for pre-war springs is strong. Here is a pair of NOS WW2 springs (LOL - really labelled "NOS"!).
> 
> ...



Great post as always CD!!!  And now I am hungry.

This also reminds me of that post from @mordy recently with the metal heat radiator around the tubes.  Maybe those can be rolled also?

Yes, it is a bit tricky to remove the springs while they are under the amp.  Like you, I think there is a difference with the springs vs without (this will take more time to evaluate as I just got them yesterday but it seems like imaging and sound localization is improved).  It would be very difficult to switch with and without them back and forth rapidly to compare.  Either way, this is one of the less expensive tweaks I've tried.  

All this said, the efficacy probably depends heavily on how much vibration is present before the springs are added.  If someone has their amp on a very heavy/stable platform with no vibration, these springs would likely do nothing.


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Can you hear any difference, either when tapping the deck of the amp or when using a microphonic tube? Or just in general?



I don't have any highly microphonic tubes in the amp right now, but I would think you can still hear sounds when tapping the deck of the amp, even with the springs.  I think this would be more a solution for low-level continual or variable vibration that is present in the platform that the amp sits on, and how this influences vibration of the tubes during listening.  Whether any changes are audible probably depends on a list of things, tubes used and background vibration being major factors.  Like I mentioned above, it's relatively cheap to use either way.


----------



## chrisdrop

Odd one... I have an RCA 6N7G that has been working 100% fine. It, however, has been occasionally just "fading out". If I reseat the valve, it is fine. I have a matching 2nd one and it is fine, i.e. it is certainly "this tube" (not the socket, etc). *Is it dying?* It is NOS and works fine when it works. I guess the usual tricks apply (sandpaper the pins, soldering iron, etc?). Any thoughts on what it might actually be?


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Odd one... I have an RCA 6N7G that has been working 100% fine. It, however, has been occasionally just "fading out". If I reseat the valve, it is fine. I have a matching 2nd one and it is fine, i.e. it is certainly "this tube" (not the socket, etc). *Is it dying?* It is NOS and works fine when it works. I guess the usual tricks apply (sandpaper the pins, soldering iron, etc?). Any thoughts on what it might actually be?


It sounds to me that the pins are not making good contact so first check for oxidation and corrosion on the pins.
Unless a tube abruptly blows up it takes a very long time for a tube to wear out - most of the old big ones should last 5000 -10,000 hours.
I have yet to wear out a tube; those that died were due to accidents such as dropping them.
A telltale sign of a bad tube losing vacuum is that the getter flash (silver coating) turns white.
You can try to jiggle the tube in the adapter-even if it is mounted a little slanted it will work just fine.
If a tube is really dying the output will diminish and you may have to turn up the volume, but it may still be perfectly usable with 65% or less of it’s life remaining.


----------



## 2359glenn

Back from a week in Pennsylvania buying used machines from company's that  closed down. And dismantling them so they can fit in a truck.
Feel like a scavenger buying up machines that were peoples lively hood a couple of months ago.
A long 12hr drive back yesterday.
Did get to buy some good food to bring back though.
The first one will get to were I work tomorrow morning. Will start to put it back together no fun hundreds of wires to hook back up.


----------



## 2359glenn

chrisdrop said:


> Odd one... I have an RCA 6N7G that has been working 100% fine. It, however, has been occasionally just "fading out". If I reseat the valve, it is fine. I have a matching 2nd one and it is fine, i.e. it is certainly "this tube" (not the socket, etc). *Is it dying?* It is NOS and works fine when it works. I guess the usual tricks apply (sandpaper the pins, soldering iron, etc?). Any thoughts on what it might actually be?



Bad solder connection in one of the pins is most likely the cause


----------



## chrisdrop

2359glenn said:


> Back from a week in Pennsylvania buying used machines from company's that  closed down. And dismantling them so they can fit in a truck.
> Feel like a scavenger buying up machines that were peoples lively hood a couple of months ago.
> A long 12hr drive back yesterday.
> Did get to buy some good food to bring back though.
> The first one will get to were I work tomorrow morning. Will start to put it back together no fun hundreds of wires to hook back up.


Notwithstanding the hard work, very glad to hear you are alive and well (enough) in the mayhem!


----------



## chrisdrop

2359glenn said:


> Bad solder connection in one of the pins is most likely the cause


I guess that supports the "take a soldering iron to each pin for 15 secs" potential solution?


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> I guess that supports the "take a soldering iron to each pin for 15 secs" potential solution?


Make it 30-45 seconds - (if you can se the solder flowing stop).


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Make it 30-45 seconds - (if you can se the solder flowing stop).


Tx @mordy. Others have had success doing this. I've not yet had a solid success where I've "fixed" a tube. The valve is NOS, perfectly functioning (aside from fading dark sometimes!), beautiful and sounds great (it isn't "noisy"). I think this is my moment to shine with the iron to the pins!


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Tx @mordy. Others have had success doing this. I've not yet had a solid success where I've "fixed" a tube. The valve is NOS, perfectly functioning (aside from fading dark sometimes!), beautiful and sounds great (it isn't "noisy"). I think this is my moment to shine with the iron to the pins!


Good luck! I am not good with soldering irons and electronics, but I managed to fix several tubes this way and it really isn't difficult.


----------



## maxpudding

chrisdrop said:


> Tx @mordy. Others have had success doing this. I've not yet had a solid success where I've "fixed" a tube. The valve is NOS, perfectly functioning (aside from fading dark sometimes!), beautiful and sounds great (it isn't "noisy"). I think this is my moment to shine with the iron to the pins!



Good luck CD 🤞


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Make it 30-45 seconds - (if you can se the solder flowing stop).


Do you run the iron the lenght of the pin and also hold the tube horizontally  or a bit tilted towards glass ?


----------



## A2029

chrisdrop said:


> Tx @mordy. Others have had success doing this. I've not yet had a solid success where I've "fixed" a tube. The valve is NOS, perfectly functioning (aside from fading dark sometimes!), beautiful and sounds great (it isn't "noisy"). I think this is my moment to shine with the iron to the pins!



Angle the pins upwards by 45degrees, put a gob of flux at the tip of the pin (I use a mix of RMA paste flux from SRA brand mixed with a small amount of MG Chemicals fully activated liquid rosin flux). Clean the soldering iron tip well to remove any oxidation, then use 63/37 solder to wet the soldering iron tip and have a small ball of solder on the tip of of iron. Touch to the end of the pin where the flux is and liberate a bunch of rosin smoke. When the solder within the pin starts flowing, you can even feed a very small amount of solder right into the pin. If there is excess solder at the end of the pin once done, clean the soldering iron tip, then use the cleaned iron tip to take the excess off the end of the pin.

When complete, scrub down really well with 99% isopropyl to make sure there is zero flux left as that stuff is super sticky and will gunk up your tube socket.

Good luck!


----------



## mordy

I am sure that A2029 is describing the advanced pro version, but I will describe my simplified version. It could be that I am doing things the wrong way, but usually it works.
I hold the tube horizontal or with the pins slightly pointing downwards (don't want any solder flowing into the tube itself). Then I take my 35 year old 50W Radioshack soldering iron and press the tip against the pins, one by one. The tip is bevelled and touches around half of the pin along the length. I use my watch to time each pin for a 30-45 second treatment - sometimes I have to do it twice for the noise to go fully away.
After heating up the pins it is possible that there is a little dirt or oxidation on the pin. I look for spots and scrape them off gently with a little old pen knife. If a tiny amount of solder ends up on the pin near the end of the pin, it can also be scraped off with the pen knife.
As described above, some people melt the solder inside the pin until it flows out and add in a little solder, but I haven't ventured that far yet.


----------



## maxpudding

A2029 said:


> Angle the pins upwards by 45degrees, put a gob of flux at the tip of the pin (I use a mix of RMA paste flux from SRA brand mixed with a small amount of MG Chemicals fully activated liquid rosin flux). Clean the soldering iron tip well to remove any oxidation, then use 63/37 solder to wet the soldering iron tip and have a small ball of solder on the tip of of iron. Touch to the end of the pin where the flux is and liberate a bunch of rosin smoke. When the solder within the pin starts flowing, you can even feed a very small amount of solder right into the pin. If there is excess solder at the end of the pin once done, clean the soldering iron tip, then use the cleaned iron tip to take the excess off the end of the pin.
> 
> When complete, scrub down really well with 99% isopropyl to make sure there is zero flux left as that stuff is super sticky and will gunk up your tube socket.
> 
> Good luck!



I would add try to find 2% silver solder, and try to stay away from 4% silver solder because I found it doesn’t flow that well, and quite difficult to work with.


----------



## chrisdrop

A2029 said:


> Angle the pins upwards by 45degrees, put a gob of flux at the tip of the pin (I use a mix of RMA paste flux from SRA brand mixed with a small amount of MG Chemicals fully activated liquid rosin flux). Clean the soldering iron tip well to remove any oxidation, then use 63/37 solder to wet the soldering iron tip and have a small ball of solder on the tip of of iron. Touch to the end of the pin where the flux is and liberate a bunch of rosin smoke. When the solder within the pin starts flowing, you can even feed a very small amount of solder right into the pin. If there is excess solder at the end of the pin once done, clean the soldering iron tip, then use the cleaned iron tip to take the excess off the end of the pin.
> 
> When complete, scrub down really well with 99% isopropyl to make sure there is zero flux left as that stuff is super sticky and will gunk up your tube socket.
> 
> Good luck!


OK. I tried to sort that tube this morning. It hasn't faded yet. Fingers crossed. Tx Mischa & Mordy for the helpful comments and encouragement.


----------



## A2029

maxpudding said:


> I would add try to find 2% silver solder, and try to stay away from 4% silver solder because I found it doesn’t flow that well, and quite difficult to work with.



Best to use lead solder if possible, as it flows much better than even the very best lead free solder and has better wetting properties and lower melting point. Lead free solder is also less flexible and more brittle, liable to form microcracks from shock over time (this is one of the reasons why many current day ROHS electronic devices only last 10 years max before the circuit boards/motherboard are dead - this is also one of the reasons why military and space applications are ROHS exempt and use lead solder). 63/37 tin/lead is the standard, but if you want to go premium (slightly stronger solder) you can get 62/36/2 tin/lead/silver.


----------



## maxpudding (Oct 9, 2020)

A2029 said:


> Best to use lead solder if possible, as it flows much better than even the very best lead free solder and has better wetting properties and lower melting point. Lead free solder is also less flexible and more brittle, liable to form microcracks from shock over time (this is one of the reasons why many current day ROHS electronic devices only last 10 years max before the circuit boards/motherboard are dead - this is also one of the reasons why military and space applications are ROHS exempt and use lead solder). 63/37 tin/lead is the standard, but if you want to go premium (slightly stronger solder) you can get 62/36/2 tin/lead/silver.



Yes I meant the 62/36/2 solder  lead free solder is even more difficult to work with. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear in the previous reply

but a 60/40 or the 63/37 would do just fine


----------



## chrisdrop (Oct 10, 2020)

.. really stupid question. What do the preamp outs actually do? Are they straight pass throughs from RCA in to RCA out without going through the amp internals? My use case is DAC>GOTL >RCA out to another amp. Right now, I will unplug RCAs direct to either amp, but if I can have both plugged in, that is a nice convenience.

FWIW - I've not listened to the GOTL in 3w. Today I have been. GOTL is beautiful


----------



## cddc

A pre-amp is basically a volume potentiometer, it does basically 3 things:

1. control the volume (its main function). For some amps you need to raise the voltage levels by a pre-amp. For some active speakers they need a pre-amp to control the volume.
2. match the impedance between source and power amp
3. color the sound. People often add a tube pre-amp to make their solid state amps sound warmer.

So your pre-out can be connected to your speaker amps or other headphone amps to control the volume or color the sound


----------



## kvik

My understanding is that pot quality affects sound quality, and adding a second pot in the signal path will only increase the detrimental effect. Also, the pot impedance will have been selected to match that particular amp design, adding a second pot will alter the overall impedance, and through that alter the frequency response in the second amp. I would have had the GOTL preouts converted to passthrough, or have new passthrough RCAs added.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 11, 2020)

2359glenn said:


> Back from a week in Pennsylvania buying used machines from company's that  closed down. And dismantling them so they can fit in a truck.
> Feel like a scavenger buying up machines that were peoples lively hood a couple of months ago.
> A long 12hr drive back yesterday.
> Did get to buy some good food to bring back though.
> The first one will get to were I work tomorrow morning. Will start to put it back together no fun hundreds of wires to hook back up.


Noted on your work obligations - what about your obligations for amp building to those who have already paid? A few users have been PM'ing me for months asking when mine will be built so they can know when to expect theirs. One even told me his Glenn Amp is the "only thing he has to look forward to" at this point in his life. We need a definite commitment to a timeline, and some are not certain how much longer they are willing to wait.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 12, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> .. really stupid question. What do the preamp outs actually do? Are they straight pass throughs from RCA in to RCA out without going through the amp internals? My use case is DAC>GOTL >RCA out to another amp. Right now, I will unplug RCAs direct to either amp, but if I can have both plugged in, that is a nice convenience.
> 
> FWIW - I've not listened to the GOTL in 3w. Today I have been. GOTL is beautiful



The purpose of a preamp is to provide voltage gain at a sufficiently low output impedance to drive the load of the power amplifier.  Many tube amplifiers you see around are "integrated amplifiers", meaning they contain both the preamp and power amp in a single unit, but they can be divided into their respective components.  For example, you might see someone running a preamp to a set of power amplifier monoblocks.  Preamp outputs on an integrated amplifier take the output signal from the preamp section of the amp, so the front end can be used as an independent preamp to a different power amp than the one built into the unit.

The preamp should provide an output voltage swing that can drive the power amp to its full output.  The output impedance must be low enough that the RC filter formed from the output impedance and the interconnect / input capacitance of the power amp does not cause high frequency attenuation in the audio band.  For that reason, you will often see preamps with output buffers.  A cathode follower, for example, will provide unity gain (close to 1) and a low output impedance to drive the power amp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

L0rdGwyn said:


> For that reason, you will often see preamps with output buffers.  A cathode follower, for example, will provide unity gain (close to 1) and a low output impedance to drive the power amp.



Just to take this one step further, this is why cathode followers are a popular choice for tube headphone amps, e.g. the Bottlehead Crack.  The 12AU7 stage provides the voltage swing while the 6080 / 6AS7G cathode follower acts as an output buffer at unity gain (the reason why changing different power tubes in the Crack does not alter the gain).  The cathode follower gets the output impedance down low enough that high impedance headphones can be driven with an acceptable damping ratio.  The design goal for the preamp vs. cathode follower OTL is the same in both cases, minimizing output impedance, just for different reasons (headphone damping ratio vs. minimizing high frequency rolloff).  In fact, the Bottlehead Crack is pretty well made to be a line-level preamp, just throw some RCAs on there in parallel with the headphone output and get a dedicated power amp.


----------



## leftside

A preamp is also useful when you have multiple input sources - say a turntable and DAC, or want to drive multiple amps/headphone amps at the same time. The better preamps goal is to not color the sound at all, but some preamps come with tone or bass/treble controls (the tone control debate is almost as divisive as the cable debate). A preamp is a necessity for me. I have a new one arriving from Australia next month: supratek.com.au.

If you just have one input source and that input source has a built-in volume control, then you might not need a preamp.


----------



## hpamdr

leftside said:


> A preamp is also useful when you have multiple input sources - say a turntable and DAC, or want to drive multiple amps/headphone amps at the same time. The better preamps goal is to not color the sound at all, but some preamps come with tone or bass/treble controls (the tone control debate is almost as divisive as the cable debate). A preamp is a necessity for me. I have a new one arriving from Australia next month: supratek.com.au.
> 
> If you just have one input source and that input source has a built-in volume control, then you might not need a preamp.


You can have "pasive pre-amp" with minimalist component easy to clean and wonderful durrability.
Some  are just source selector and volume attenuator., some with selector and output transformer can also produce balanced output with impedance matching. If you have a/several turntable you also need specific input module/transformers.

So yes preamp can make your life easier with more than one input and/or if you do not have volume control.

With active preamp, you can add tube flavor by the preamp section to drive heavy duty SS amplifier....


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Ouch!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey @whirlwind I found 6 for you:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/B65-OSRAM-NOS-METAL-BASE-MATCHED-QUAD-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-LC80/313256543041
https://www.ebay.com/itm/B65-OSRAM-NOS-METAL-BASE-MATCHED-PAIR-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-LC33/264897921733


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 14, 2020)

leftside said:


> Hey @whirlwind I found 6 for you:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/B65-OSRAM-NOS-METAL-BASE-MATCHED-QUAD-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-LC80/313256543041
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/B65-OSRAM-NOS-METAL-BASE-MATCHED-PAIR-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-LC33/264897921733



Crazy!

Heck, right now I am enjoying my ZMF VC with a pair of RCA 6AS7G power tubes and a pair of Sylvania 12J5GT driver tubes and the sound is killer.

I am about 95% sure that the CCS load closes the gap between the best driver tubes significantly. I feel like I am rolling driver tubes for tone more than anything.

Tossing the idea around of getting EL3N to 6J5 adapters for my GEL3N amp.
 Just no connection to the screen grid in the EL3N socket, I believe.


----------



## 2359glenn

That should work no connection to the screen grid.  Just remember that it has CCS set for the EL3N with LED bias on the cathode.
Try it can't heart try it see how it sounds.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> That should work no connection to the screen grid.  Just remember that it has CCS set for the EL3N with LED bias on the cathode.
> Try it can't heart try it see how it sounds.


                                                          Thanks Glenn, maybe I will contact @Deyan to see if he could make a couple


----------



## chrisdrop

Been quiet here... 

Listening to one of my favourite setups yesterday and today:


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Tossing the idea around of getting EL3N to 6J5 adapters for my GEL3N amp.
> Just no connection to the screen grid in the EL3N socket, I believe.


6J5 drivers in my 6EL3N amp, which are "native" (have their own sockets) make the amp sound VERY different compared to all-EL3N config.
Definitely worth it. Neither is better. Both are awesome!
I feel like I have 2-amps-in-1


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 17, 2020)

Zachik said:


> 6J5 drivers in my 6EL3N amp, which are "native" (have their own sockets) make the amp sound VERY different compared to all-EL3N config.
> Definitely worth it. Neither is better. Both are awesome!
> I feel like I have 2-amps-in-1



Yours will be biased better than mine, my amp will actually be biased better for the EL3N, but these may still sound pretty darn good in this amp.

Adapters are ordered from Deyan


----------



## gibosi

Well, for those who might have some interest in rolling C3g...

I'm currently enjoying rolling different drivers and rectifiers with a 6-pack of Melz 6N12S, and to my old ears, this combination strikes me as really good. 

Philips GZ34 (Sittard) and Lorenz C3g (flat black cans with embossed tops)


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Well, for those who might have some interest in rolling C3g...
> 
> I'm currently enjoying rolling different drivers and rectifiers with a 6-pack of Melz 6N12S, and to my old ears, this combination strikes me as really good.
> 
> Philips GZ34 (Sittard) and Lorenz C3g (flat black cans with embossed tops)


Hast du mir gesehen - you found a really nice combination here! Don't have Lorenz C3g but put in an old pair of Siemens with embossed letters on top.
Sounds really nice with a lot of energy and slam!


----------



## gibosi

Since there's not much of interest on TV here in the states this evening, decided to try a new roll.

Mullard GZ32, six 6N12S and a pair of Holland-made (Sittard) EL42. This is making me smile.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> Since there's not much of interest on TV here in the states this evening, decided to try a new roll.
> 
> Mullard GZ32, six 6N12S and a pair of Holland-made (Sittard) EL42. This is making me smile.


I am disappointed... why not using a rectifier that requires an adapter?!  Everything else does...


----------



## mordy

Little quiet on the forum so I thought of bringing up a somewhat off topic - how do you apply your experience of tube rolling and cable matching to everyday life?
It all started with this little gadget:



It is a USB volt and amp meter that plugs into your cellphone, battery pack or wall charger etc.
Having an older cellphone (iPhone 6+) with the battery at 79% capacity a portable charger is a must. There is a mAh rating printed on the battery pack. These ratings are notoriously inaccurate and usually grossly exaggerated. It appears to me that the reason is that there are no standards for these ratings (remember the watt ratings on hi fi equipment until the government mandated a standard ?). By plugging in this gadget into a load and noting the voltage, amps, and time used you can calculate the mAh - more sophisticated devices do these things automatically.
I have found that the charging cables have very different performance. Ever noticed that your phone takes unusually long to charge? It could be the wire, but also the charger. Time to roll charging wires and cell phone chargers.... Having gone through several years of changing cell phones I have a bunch of different chargers and wires on hand:



The chargers vary significantly in capacity and amperage output. In addition, you have to roll different wires to get the fastest and most powerful combination. The same wire may sound - oops, I  meant charge, differently with a different charger.
Back to rolling cables and chargers and finding the most powerful and fastest combination!
I was really surprised at the huge differences.....


----------



## A2029

mordy said:


> Little quiet on the forum so I thought of bringing up a somewhat off topic - how do you apply your experience of tube rolling and cable matching to everyday life?
> It all started with this little gadget:
> 
> It is a USB volt and amp meter that plugs into your cellphone, battery pack or wall charger etc.
> ...



One really neat thing is that you can use this info to extend the battery life on your phone - The slower you charge your phone the better it is for the battery. I use a really long 20+ foot cable to charge my phone overnight so that the charge takes up to 6+ hours. When I need a quick recharge during the day, I use a very short cable and more powerful charger to quick charge.


----------



## maxpudding

Iphone 6+? I had one of those...but threw it away when I “accidentally” bent it.

BTW mordy thats a good way of keeping a log on your energy usage too, I use a similar device to check all my electrical appliances energy requirements. Planning to put some solar panels on the rooftop.


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> I am disappointed... why not using a rectifier that requires an adapter?!  Everything else does...



Sorry to disappoint. I'll try to do better next time! lol.


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> I am disappointed... why not using a rectifier that requires an adapter?!  Everything else does...



OK! I think this is better! lol. 

A British Mazda UU8, six Melz 6N12S and a pair of Philips (Sittard) EL42.


----------



## mordy (Oct 23, 2020)

Bigger is better? Here are the TFK EL11 on duty with 6 x 6H12C:



Sounds good.....
There is a certain "rightness" to the Melz 6H12C/6N12S tubes. After some 60 hours they keep improving - Triod750 says they need some 120 hours or so.


----------



## triod750

" Triod750 says they need some 120 hours or so". 

Yes, either they keep on changing (for the better) or they keep on changing me. I have 200 hours + on mine. I am waiting for another pair and it will be interesting with the opportunity to do a reality check.


----------



## raindownthunda

gibosi said:


> OK! I think this is better! lol.
> 
> A British Mazda UU8, six Melz 6N12S and a pair of Philips (Sittard) EL42.



Your current roll reminds me of those "cities in the sky" from the sci-fi world


----------



## cddc

raindownthunda said:


> Your current roll reminds me of those "cities in the sky" from the sci-fi world




LOL...that's called adapter rolling...


----------



## whirlwind

Gonna leave these in for awhile....sound pretty awesome with Verite Closed.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 24, 2020)

In the SET amp I have always liked the GEC KT63 tubes as the are a great sounding tube. They are of the 6FG6 variety.



I just scored a couple of pairs of NOS ones from this seller, who has nice tubes as I have bought from him before.

He accepted a reasonable offer. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-X-KT63-TUBE-HALTRON-BRAND-SMOKED-GLASS-BLACK-PLATES-QUAD-CD-ENA/133538416185?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> In the SET amp I have always liked the GEC KT63 tubes as the are a great sounding tube. They are of the 6FG6 variety.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And I think I see a Cossor 53KU there. So Cossor, GEC and WIRAG? I'm sure it sounds great.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> And I think I see a Cossor 53KU there. So Cossor, GEC and WIRAG? I'm sure it sounds great.



You are correct.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> In the SET amp I have always liked the GEC KT63 tubes as the are a great sounding tube. They are of the 6FG6 variety.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good seller for sure.


----------



## Karnicopia

I recently picked up some RCA 6AS7G's and I really like the sound of them. They seem really well balanced and the amp also runs a lot cooler with them which is nice. One of those tubes I'm enjoying no matter what I throw at it and there aren't any real weak points to it. It kind of reminds me of the GE 6J5 in that way that there may be other tubes that excel in other areas but these seem like all around great performers.


----------



## Zachik

Karnicopia said:


> the amp also runs a lot cooler with them which is nice.


I didn't think that was a pro in Chicago, in late October...


----------



## Karnicopia

Zachik said:


> I didn't think that was a pro in Chicago, in late October...


That's a really good point 6080 would be nice for a cold night, I haven't even had the amp for a year so this will be the first time I have it for winter but I think that will actually be pretty nice. I may have to move the amp a bit so I get more of the fans in the winter.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Gonna leave these in for awhile....sound pretty awesome with Verite Closed.


GEC and Chatham?


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> GEC and Chatham?



Yeah


----------



## mordy

I find it very interesting that two tubes just came up as very good sounding that I never really learned to like - the RCA and Chatham 6AS7G.
Have to revisit them.....
Speaking of tubes, I had a Valvo EL12 375V that was defective. Was going to use it for a headphone hanger but dropped it accidentally - here is a picture of the substantial insides with double getters:


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> In the SET amp I have always liked the GEC KT63 tubes as the are a great sounding tube. They are of the 6FG6 variety.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did I hear WIRAG? Is bigger better? - here is Big Red - today's roll:



Sounds great with refinement and slam - the Russians really woke up the EL3N! This is a truly international collaboration. Russian tubes made in Moscow and bought in Slovakia, Austrian tubes made in Vienna and bought in Holland, playing in the United States on a US built amp, cooled by Chinese fans, listening via German headphones.  
The MELZ factory building in Moscow - the design inspired by tubes:


----------



## triod750

A little more information and discussion of Melz 6H12C/6H12S: http://audio-db.info/AudioDB/BazaPraktiki/Usilenie/Lampy/Alfavit/6N/6N12S

Please don't blame your difficulties on me .


----------



## gibosi

triod750 said:


> A little more information and discussion of Melz 6H12C/6H12S: http://audio-db.info/AudioDB/BazaPraktiki/Usilenie/Lampy/Alfavit/6N/6N12S
> 
> Please don't blame your difficulties on me .



And for those who are not shy about using adapters, since the 6N12S / 6H12C is electrically quite close to the 5687, it might be interesting to get some adapters to allow the use of a six-pack of 5687 as output tubes. 

So, who is willing to be the first to go down this rabbit hole? lol


----------



## mordy

triod750 said:


> A little more information and discussion of Melz 6H12C/6H12S: http://audio-db.info/AudioDB/BazaPraktiki/Usilenie/Lampy/Alfavit/6N/6N12S
> 
> Please don't blame your difficulties on me .


I used Google translate for the comments - the translation can compete with the Chinese manuals accompanying many products...Two samples:
_"In this case, I always dance from the stove" 
"but the cat cried out the voltage too" _

I appreciated the 5687 in the Little Dot days and I had Deyan make one adapter for me and have used the 5687 as a driver in the GOTL. IMHO it does not approach the clarity of the 6N12S but one never knows how it is going to sound until one tries a six-pack.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I used Google translate for the comments - the translation can compete with the Chinese manuals accompanying many products...Two samples:
> _"In this case, I always dance from the stove"
> "but the cat cried out the voltage too" _
> 
> I appreciated the 5687 in the Little Dot days and I had Deyan make one adapter for me and have used the 5687 as a driver in the GOTL. IMHO it does not approach the clarity of the 6N12S but one never knows how it is going to sound until one tries a six-pack.



And further, a number of companies made the 5687, so it could well be that a Sylvania six-pack might sound better, (or worse) than an RCA or Tung-Sol or what have you.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> And further, a number of companies made the 5687, so it could well be that a Sylvania six-pack might sound better, (or worse) than an RCA or Tung-Sol or what have you.


Of the TS, Syl and GE that I have, I liked the GE the best. (In my experience GE usually doesn't claim top spot; I have a pair of late 30's - early 40's GE 6C5 metal that also sound very nice).


----------



## mordy

A friend asked me what I am doing. I told him that I am retired. He answered: You are not retired - you are re-tired, rolling along!
Here is today's roll (we shrank the EL3N) - the EL8 with the same _plattfuss_ base (side contact base). 
These tubes are made by Philips Valvo in Hamburg in the 50's - one is relabeled TeKaDe:



The Melz 6N12S have the ability to energize the driver tubes. Whereas the EL3N is very dynamic and impactful, in this combination the EL8 is more laid back and relaxed and softer overall. With half the output power of the EL3, it still sounds very good, but less of everything compared to the EL3N.
The successor of the EL8 is the EL42 with a rimlock base B8A that Gibosi has but I have not heard it.


----------



## mordy

Rolling along - today's roll is a pristine pair of BRIMAR 6J7G:



This is a pentode, run in triode mode using the C3g sockets with an EL32 adapter. The 6J7G is the progenitor of the 6C5G tube which uses the same internals as the 6J7G but with some things disconnected internally so that the 6C5G functions as a triode. Since I had very good results using the 6C5 and having discovered that the EL32 adapter would work for the 6J7, I decided to give the 6J7G a try.
Glenn had posted that if the 6C5 hums you can cure it by connecting pins 1 & 8 with a little jumper. Most 6C5  metal tubes that I have do not hum, but this pair of Brimar 6J7G did hum in my GOTL. After checking with Glenn he said that you can use the same jumper in the 6J7G socket. (It is easy to identify pins 1 and 8 because they are on each side  of the guide pin. A tiny piece of thin wire stripped at each end 6mm will do the job - the tube pins will hold it in place. (It should also be mentioned that the 6J5 is very similar to the 6C5 but the internals are different
and it does not have the large internal screen and does not need these jumpers.)
Following my routine with new tubes and ever mindful of possible untoward events, I plugged in my sacrificial headphones and turned on the GOTL with a trigger finger ready to shut off the power should something be amiss. Those of you who have experienced explosive pops and blown drivers will know what I mean....
Blue halo on - silence, no sonic fireworks! The hum is basically gone (can only hear it faintly now at unlistenable loud levels). Now turn on the music and switch to flavor of the day headphones or speakers. 
Nice, open and bright sound, good timbre. These tubes are so new that they look like they were made yesterday; even the boxes look new - will have to give them some time; well, maybe they need a lot of time to burn in. Just hoping that they don't take as long as the EL3N that needs a couple of hundred hours....
They look good and sound good......


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Rolling along - today's roll is a pristine pair of BRIMAR 6J7G:
> 
> This is a pentode, run in triode mode using the C3g sockets with an EL32 adapter. The 6J7G is the progenitor of the 6C5G tube which uses the same internals as the 6J7G but with some things disconnected internally so that the 6C5G functions as a triode. Since I had very good results using the 6C5 and having discovered that the EL32 adapter would work for the 6J7, I decided to give the 6J7G a try.
> Glenn had posted that if the 6C5 hums you can cure it by connecting pins 1 & 8 with a little jumper. Most 6C5  metal tubes that I have do not hum, but this pair of Brimar 6J7G did hum in my GOTL. After checking with Glenn he said that you can use the same jumper in the 6J7G socket. (It is easy to identify pins 1 and 8 because they are on each side  of the guide pin. A tiny piece of thin wire stripped at each end 6mm will do the job - the tube pins will hold it in place. (It should also be mentioned that the 6J5 is very similar to the 6C5 but the internals are different
> ...


I really like my similar 6J7Gs. Good post.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> I really like my similar 6J7Gs. Good post.


Humphrey?


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Humphrey?


I've tried the AnM 6J7Gs in both, but think these tubes shine more in the GOTL  I've been spending my time 1/2 and 1/2 more or less ..


----------



## mordy (Oct 27, 2020)

In case somebody missed what Humpfrey means, you have to close your eyes and pronounce it s l o w l  y - then it sounds like _hum free_.

_"If they make it, it hums."_ Old audiophile proverb


----------



## triod750

triod750 said:


> " Triod750 says they need some 120 hours or so".
> 
> Yes, either they keep on changing (for the better) or they keep on changing me. I have 200 hours + on mine. I am waiting for another pair and it will be interesting with the opportunity to do a reality check.



I have now received another pair of 6N12S, -62 years vintage, from the same seller. They have been put to use for about one hour and a half and have a lot of cleaning up to do in order to sound anywhere close to the first pair. This was what I expected to hear and might be why I hear it but I really don't think so. A felt needs to be removed.
I often think that people judge stuff all too soon...


----------



## chrisdrop

I've gone back to spending 10h/day at my office (it is OK, I like my work). As a result, it is unclear what my "primary listening place" is now. At the moment I only really get weekend listening time home (an hour in the evening weeknights if I'm lucky). 

Of minor note, in an effort to "push tubes"; I loaned a friend my Crack which was at the office for the past few months. Whilst he was WFH in lockdown - I tempted him into some HD650s. He loves them. Next, get him interested in tubes, borrow my Crack, and perhaps - hooked. He is very much enjoying, not withstanding minor trepidation of "fiddiliness" with tube amps.

Whilst I may rotate headphones between home/work but right now at the office I have a pair of ZMF Eikons (home are the Verite Closed). The Eikons are great, and yet they can get a little hot in the upper mids (~3kHz). They are also pretty sub-bass lush. It turns out, I like entirely different rolls on the GOTL! I found the 6BX7s a but much in the upper mids. I'm on 2x GEC 6080s and 1 RCA 6N7G this morning. I've been rediscovering tubes with the GOTL+Eikons with all that listening time over the past week. I've never really used the GOTL with the Eikons (VCs arrived at around the same time as the GOTL last year). I am getting to try different rolls all over again. Every day, I've been transporting more tubes to the office. It is a bit valve-manic!

As some of you may know, I've got an additional amp via Mischa (a "Blue Halo"). I've been enjoying it for a few weeks now. Several people have DM'd me on "how is it vs GOTL". They are both excellent amps. I am not being "PC" by saying they each have areas where they shine and IMO they make excellent _compliments_. They are different. Given that I've spent the past year+ rolling home with my Verite Closed + the GOTL, I've got some exploring to do with the BH (and the VC for now). I also have some exploring to do with the Eikon+GOTL to rediscover all the tubes again. I've acquired a reasonable cache this past year. I truly didn't' know the Eikons could sound as good as they do right this moment. I hope it is not inappropriate to say; I'm impressed that BH compares to the GOTL _at all_, which is a most excellent amplifier with years of history, evolution, love and so on. 

BH is a new toy for me, so naturally, I'm exploring with it. I have had both at home for roughly a month and I've been swapping my listening time ~50/50 across both amps, taking notes, and just enjoying them both. It is good to be spoiled for choice (as many of you are!). Now having 10h/day at the office, much of which is listenable - it seemed crazy to have 2 posh amps at home and not bring 1 to the office! 

Does bringing GOTL to the office mean you like it better? Does it mean you like BH better? No. I'll swap them around variously. The current configuration is giving me max listening _novelty_. I've already missed having both at the same location... Again, I'm not being "PC" or noncommital, just sharing my thoughts as they stand today. It will probably take many months to have deeper and more nuanced opinions/preferences. (Where to keep the good DAC?! Don't make me by 2 good DACs!!!!). 

What are some of the differences? I'll post more comments on the BH thread at some point, but to summarise here; GOTL quite smooth, at the occasional cost of clarity vs BH. GOTL has a somewhat less tight low end. GOTL has probably sweeter mids and gentle highs. GOTL may be _slightly_ more spacious left to right, but perhaps BH is bigger up/down (front/back?)? GOTL is a total chameleon taking on the colours of the tubes you roll in, so all relative! BH is very, very quiet, clear, tighter low-end, also allows a great selection of input tube rolling, and there is plenty more to say. 

I feel quite spoiled having such a set up for my office and home! 

Having fun listening (as usual),
-Chris-

2x GEC 6080 + 1x RCA 6N7G (+ZMF Eikons)


----------



## whirlwind

chrisdrop said:


> I've gone back to spending 10h/day at my office (it is OK, I like my work). As a result, it is unclear what my "primary listening place" is now. At the moment I only really get weekend listening time home (an hour in the evening weeknights if I'm lucky).
> 
> Of minor note, in an effort to "push tubes"; I loaned a friend my Crack which was at the office for the past few months. Whilst he was WFH in lockdown - I tempted him into some HD650s. He loves them. Next, get him interested in tubes, borrow my Crack, and perhaps - hooked. He is very much enjoying, not withstanding minor trepidation of "fiddiliness" with tube amps.
> 
> ...



I totally agree with you that different headphones react different to different tubes.
Congrats on the amps...I do more amp rolling than tube rolling these days, but like having different tubes to change the tone every once in awhile.
You have some great gear....enjoy .


----------



## Velozity

As I work towards my endgame head-fi setup, I'm considering having a custom DAC built in the same chassis as my GOTL to make the ultimate stack (for me).  Do any of you guys know a guru like Glenn but in the digital realm who might be able to pull this off?  I'm also considering buying an off-the-shelf DAC and transplanting it into the new chassis, but that's plan B.
https://www.hammfg.com/electronics/small-case/chassis/hwchas


----------



## chrisdrop

Velozity said:


> As I work towards my endgame head-fi setup, I'm considering having a custom DAC built in the same chassis as my GOTL to make the ultimate stack (for me).  Do any of you guys know a guru like Glenn but in the digital realm who might be able to pull this off?  I'm also considering buying an off-the-shelf DAC and transplanting it into the new chassis, but that's plan B.
> https://www.hammfg.com/electronics/small-case/chassis/hwchas


You could certainly try Slawa @ SW1X. I imagine he'd build in any chassis you like.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Velozity said:


> As I work towards my endgame head-fi setup, I'm considering having a custom DAC built in the same chassis as my GOTL to make the ultimate stack (for me).  Do any of you guys know a guru like Glenn but in the digital realm who might be able to pull this off?  I'm also considering buying an off-the-shelf DAC and transplanting it into the new chassis, but that's plan B.
> https://www.hammfg.com/electronics/small-case/chassis/hwchas



Could also check out this fella: https://www.space-tech-lab.com/


----------



## mordy

Today's roll involves uncharted waters, trepidation and stretching things to the limits, as well visual beauty.
Did you ever hear of a tube KTZ63? Neither did I, but checking out tubes that have the same pinout as the 6J7G I came across this one. This tube is a GEC tube and also appears under the Marconi brand. They don't make them like this any more with beautiful Art Deco boxes and logos on the tubes:



The tubes are the same but one (on the left) is older and slightly larger:



The 6J7 adapters were made for a shorter tube and the anode cap wires just barely made it as you can see in the picture - luckily the left adapter had a wire slightly longer and although the anode caps are not fully seated in place they are on enough to get good contact.
Now a KTZ63 is a KTZ63, right? No, it isn't. Once I got the tubes I discovered that there are two variants of the KTZ63 - KTZ63 and KTZ63/6J7G. They are wired differently. After some nail biting I found out that 


the KTZ63 is a kinkless tetrode while the KTZ63/6J7G is a pentode with G3 brought to pin 5. Not understanding what this means, I
consulted with Deyan who told me that the adapter will allow for both variants to be used. When I first put in the tubes there was a bad hum, but then I put in the little jumpers to connect pins 1 & 8 and the hum disappeared.
The GOTL is playing happily. The tubes are NOS and it is too early for lasting sound impressions but so far not as warm as the Brimar 6J7G - drier but good sounding.


----------



## maxpudding

mordy said:


> Today's roll involves uncharted waters, trepidation and stretching things to the limits, as well visual beauty.
> Did you ever hear of a tube KTZ63? Neither did I, but checking out tubes that have the same pinout as the 6J7G I came across this one. This tube is a GEC tube and also appears under the Marconi brand. They don't make them like this any more with beautiful Art Deco boxes and logos on the tubes:
> 
> The tubes are the same but one (on the left) is older and slightly larger:
> ...



Those are indeed a good looking pair of tubes


----------



## gibosi

As time permits, I'm still rolling through different drivers and rectifiers with a six-pack of 6N12S as output tubes. This evening I decided to try a WE 396A / 2C51, which is one of my all-time favorite 9-pin all-glass drivers. I have paired it with a Cossor 53KU and I am not disappointed. I really enjoy this tiny tube. 

Next I intend to roll-in a Reflector 6N3P-DR, a Russian version of the 2C51, which I haven't heard in ages.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> As time permits, I'm still rolling through different drivers and rectifiers with a six-pack of 6N12S as output tubes. This evening I decided to try a WE 396A / 2C51, which is one of my all-time favorite 9-pin all-glass drivers. I have paired it with a Cossor 53KU and I am not disappointed. I really enjoy this tiny tube.
> 
> Next I intend to roll-in a Reflector 6N3P-DR, a Russian version of the 2C51, which I haven't heard in ages.


Don't forget the GE 5670....


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Don't forget the GE 5670....



Other than the WE 396A, I haven't spent much time with the 5670 / 2C51 types since my Little Dot days, and I wasn't sure I even had a GE.  Just checked my collection and found that yes, I have GE, as well as, Sylvania, Bendix, CBS/Hytron, and Reflector 6N3P-DR. So after the Reflector, will roll in the GE.

Again, it's been a long time since I rolled these Reflectors, but so far, I'm liking what I hear.


----------



## robo24

gibosi said:


> This evening I decided to try a WE 396A / 2C51, which is one of my all-time favorite 9-pin all-glass drivers.


So glad to hear these work well with the Glenn OTL. Still pretty new to tubes and my OTL is still being built, but this with adapter will be the first tube I try.


----------



## gibosi (Nov 4, 2020)

I probably won't get to the GE 5670 until the weekend, and thought as long as I have the Melz 6N12S (1962) and Reflector 6N3P-DR (1972) installed, it might be interesting to try an all Russian configuration. So rolled in an old Russian rectifier, a Svetlana 5Ц3С (1957).

The Svetlana sounds pretty good, similar to the Cossor 53KU, but I find the Cossor to be a bit more transparent.


----------



## gibosi

robo24 said:


> So glad to hear these work well with the Glenn OTL. Still pretty new to tubes and my OTL is still being built, but this with adapter will be the first tube I try.



Most of the popular double triodes will work fine as drivers in the OTL, including E88CC, 5687, 7119 and many, many others.


----------



## gibosi (Oct 30, 2020)

gibosi said:


> Most of the popular double triodes will work fine as drivers in the OTL, including E88CC, 5687, 7119 and many, many others.



And if you are as crazy as I am, you can even run a pair of 90-year old #27 single triodes. lol (This is the tube in my avatar.)



Edit: These were manufactured in 1927.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The older the better.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> And if you are as crazy as I am, you can even run a pair of 90-year old #27 single triodes. lol (This is the tube in my avatar.)
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: These were manufactured in 1927.



You are pretty crazy   
Thanks for the info on that rectifier -  Svetlana5Ц3С (1957).
The Cossor 53KU is one of my favorite rectifiers. 

I have been listening to the new Bonamassa album a lot lately with the ZMF VC and all of my amps.
I will leave this here for those that like the blues/rock type of thing.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> And if you are as crazy as I am, you can even run a pair of 90-year old #27 single triodes. lol (This is the tube in my avatar.)
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: These were manufactured in 1927.


Nothing crazy about that - oldies are goodies! As I recall, the #27 was one of Glenn's favorites in the past.


----------



## triod750

You are not crazy - just wild and clever!


----------



## leftside

Re-org of the music room is coming up. First piece is ready. I needed more room on the bottom shelf for the preamp (with tubes sticking out the top of the two chassis). Will match my turntable stand and amp stands that I had made by the same wood-working company last year.


----------



## chrisdrop

Cheers @mordy just burning in 





Coming off of these which I've been really enjoying:


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Cheers @mordy just burning in
> 
> 
> 
> Coming off of these which I've been really enjoying:


The GEC 6080 are very nice tubes, but I am very curious about your impressions of the coveted Melz 6N12S tubes. IMHO they bring an unpredecented clarity and transparency to the presentation.
The burn in period is very long but very pleasant.


----------



## whirlwind

Deyan's adapters have  arrived so I can use 6J5 tubes in my EL3N amp.
You have to use one tube mode, but they work fine and sound  pretty nice too.
Thank you @Deyan 

 Mullard EL34 xf'2's / Mullard GZ32 rectifier / Arcturus 6J5G which I believe to be RCA


----------



## Xcalibur255

My gut tells me National Union on your 6J5s, but I can't say that with confidence.  That's the style of top mica and support NU uses on their 45 tubes from the same era.


----------



## triod750

Cool adapters.


----------



## Zachik

Anyone knows which 1/4" jacks are used by Glenn for the OTL's thick front panel?


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Deyan's adapters have  arrived so I can use 6J5 tubes in my EL3N amp.
> You have to use one tube mode, but they work fine and sound  pretty nice too.
> Thank you @Deyan
> 
> Mullard EL34 xf'2's / Mullard GZ32 rectifier / Arcturus 6J5G which I believe to be RCA


Very cool. My guess is the EL3N are slightly warmer. They are in my DAC and headphone amp anyway (funnily enough with EL3N to 6J5 adapters).


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> My gut tells me National Union on your 6J5s, but I can't say that with confidence.  That's the style of top mica and support NU uses on their 45 tubes from the same era.



They very well could be, saying that they were RCA was basically a guess by me     




leftside said:


> Very cool. My guess is the EL3N are slightly warmer. They are in my DAC and headphone amp anyway (funnily enough with EL3N to 6J5 adapters).



Yes, the EL3N tubes have a warmer sound.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 6, 2020)

@whirlwind do you happen to have the EL11 too, Joe?  If so, any thoughts on how they compare to the EL3N?


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> @whirlwind do you happen to have the ELL11 too, Joe?  If so, any thoughts on how they compare to the EL3N?


I am not Joe   and assuming ELL11 was a typo - the EL11 sound (to my ears) a lot like EL3N.  
In fact, I believe EL11 is an EL3N with a different base.

My apologies if ELL11 was not a typo...


----------



## gibosi (Nov 6, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> @whirlwind do you happen to have the ELL11 too, Joe?  If so, any thoughts on how they compare to the EL3N?



ELL11 or EL11? Well assuming you mean EL11, since the EL3N and EL11 are electrically identical, it comes down to the maker. And obviously a Telefunken EL11 is going to sound different than a WIRAG-made Philips EL3N.

Edit: At least to my ears they sound different. 

Edit#2: And I have an EL11 and an EL3N, both made by Loewe Opta (a Philips subsidiary after 1954) and they sound identical.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

@Zachik @gibosi a typo, yes!  Apologies.  Would be interested to know how the Telefunken compares to the Philips-made EL3N in the output position, since they are electrically equivalent.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Would be interested to know how the Telefunken compares to the Philips-made EL3N in the output position, since they are electrically equivalent.


I can only use the EL11 in my GOTL, with adapter of course, as driver... Cannot test it as output.
Sorry I cannot be of any help.


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> @Zachik @gibosi a typo, yes!  Apologies.  Would be interested to know how the Telefunken compares to the Philips-made EL3N in the output position, since they are electrically equivalent.



Used as output tubes, this is a question best answered by those who have one of Glenn's EL3N variants. 

My experience is based on using these tubes as drivers in the OTL. And as expected, given the "house sound" of these two makers, I find the Telefunken's to be somewhat drier and leaner compared to the WIRAG which is a bit warmer.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Well thanks for chiming in fellas!  Unsure if @whirlwind has adapters and has experimented with the EL11, I'm sure we will find out soon


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well thanks for chiming in fellas!  Unsure if @whirlwind has adapters and has experimented with the EL11, I'm sure we will find out soon



I have not experimented with the EL11 tubes as output tubes or driver tubes.
I would think that since the EL3N is great as an output, the EL11 would be also...but I can't confirm.

The only output tubes that I have used in the EL3N amp have been Mullard EL34 xf'2's  /  EL3N / Mullard EL37 / GEC KT66  / GEC KT63
These all sound so great I really did not pursue any others , but I am sure there are many many more    

The EL3N and the KT63 are bang for the buck tubes, but not as cheap as they were just a couple years ago.

I am waiting for you to build an amp using these output tubes ..just a headphone amp and maybe easy to drive near field's.

The ZMF VC  sounds really nice from the SET amp in one tube mode ...I use most of the volume pot, but it sound wonderful...instrument separation is fantastic.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I use most of the volume pot, but it sound wonderful...instrument separation is fantastic.


 Separation, imaging,  staging, musicality, etc... Im glad youre enjoying the VC.
To do a worlds first review was a bit frightening TBH. Its rather easy to read/listen to reviews previously done by others and then throw your own spin on what has already been stated, but to go in with an entirely clean slate, and have to rely upon 55 year old ears to proclaim the VC a masterpiece was,.......scary.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 7, 2020)

whirlwind said:


> I have not experimented with the EL11 tubes as output tubes or driver tubes.
> I would think that since the EL3N is great as an output, the EL11 would be also...but I can't confirm.
> 
> The only output tubes that I have used in the EL3N amp have been Mullard EL34 xf'2's  /  EL3N / Mullard EL37 / GEC KT66  / GEC KT63
> ...



Thanks @whirlwind , no worries on the EL11, I would expect the sound to be similar to the EL3N but a different flavor perhaps.  Soon I am going to have a pair of LL9202 output transformers burning a hole in my pocket, these are the same ones Glenn uses in the EL3N amp, the reason I am asking.  Just doing some brainstorming, not a lot of power tubes out there that take a 7K plate load, like the EL3N/EL11.  They can do about 1W, could get more power out as pentodes with some feedback, around 4-5W.

Glad you are enjoying that VC, I may get my hands on one some day, really an incredible headphone.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Separation, imaging,  staging, musicality, etc... Im glad youre enjoying the VC.
> To do a worlds first review was a bit frightening TBH. Its rather easy to read/listen to reviews previously done by others and then throw your own spin on what has already been stated, but to go in with an entirely clean slate, and have to rely upon 55 year old ears to proclaim the VC a masterpiece was,.......scary.



Ha...my ears are older than yours   
I liked your review of the VC and knew I had some of the same gear as you, the headphones are killer!...Glenn's amps have always played well with all high impedance headphones that I have tried.
I watched a replay of a live stream ZMF had just a small time ago and it sounds promising for them to get out a cheaper headphone so more people can enjoy the sound.
I think this would be pretty cool.




L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks @whirlwind , no worries on the EL11, I would expect the sound to be similar to the EL3N but a different flavor perhaps.  Soon I am going to have a pair of LL9202 output transformers burning a hole in my pocket, these are the same ones Glenn uses in the EL3N amp, the reason I am asking.  Just doing some brainstorming, not a lot of power tubes out there that take a 7K plate load, like the EL3N/EL11.  They can do about 1W, could get more power out as pentodes with some feedback, around 4-5W.
> 
> Glad you are enjoying that VC, I may get my hands on one some day, really an incredible headphone.



Nice, yeah, I can't imagine you just leaving those transformers lay around    
I will be watching for your next project.
Glenn, may have tried the EL11 as an output.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> The only output tubes that I have used in the EL3N amp have been Mullard EL34 xf'2's  /  EL3N / Mullard EL37 / GEC KT66  / GEC KT63


Slumming it there buddy!  Seriously, all bases are covered there.

I keep turning to the RFT EL11 in my DAC. Philips EL12 seem to be getting some airtime as well. I have quite a few more of these variations to try (various manufacturers of EL11/12/spez and 6P25, EL33 and 6M6G variations). I'll also be getting an output selector for these tubes in the amp Mischa is going to build.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks @whirlwind I would expect the sound to be similar to the EL3N but a different flavor perhaps.


That's right. @gibosi mentioned the differences with the Telefunken, and I agree. Usually I'm a huge fan of Telefunken in my main tube amps, but in the DAC I seem to prefer the warmer tubes.


----------



## mordy

I have several different brands of EL11 - Philips, Tungsram, Valvo, RFT but prefer the ST Telefunken (two variants TFK EL11 - ST and tubular). 
When used as drivers I liked the EL11 better than the EL3N but as always, synergy is very important.
Did not have much luck with the EL12 which I found to be a very temperamental and unreliable tube. The EL12N is much more stable but haven't used it in a long time.
I have an EL6 that is similar to the EL12 but with a side contact base.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> I have an EL6 that is similar to the EL12 but with a side contact base.


mordy - let me know if you want to get rid of a pair... I would love to buy a pair and try them on my EL3N amp


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Since we were talking about the "lean" nature of Telefunken tubes relative to other manufacturer's, thought I would do a little test and see how far back those tendencies go.  Was doing some headphone listening in the wee hours of the morning on my 6A5G amp with the Auteur.

First we have the Telefunken REN904, 1937 version with gold metallic paint.  While I think they are quite balanced overall, they do seem to have a more shimmery top end, symbols have a little more sparkle, the treble is just more present and well separated from the rest of the mix.  Don't sound lean or bright, but I will call the treble more refined.  Very balanced overall I would say.




For comparison, we have another 1930s era tube, the British Mazda AC/HL.  Compared to the REN904, it leans warm, the treble definition I alluded to is reduced, it blends more with the rest of mix, the sound is more laid back, I wouldn't call it wooly, but it leans that direction, gives the impression of less detail but still a pleasantly warm tonality.



To my ears, the Mazdas are "warm" and the Telefunkens are "neutralish" with nice treble definition.  I have some later Telefunken REN904 examples, maybe I will do those next.  Haven't been doing much tube rolling lately, have been really happy with the Opta REN904 in my amplifier for a long time, they have been the daily drivers.

Just for fun, here is an interesting tube that happened to be in the same box as my REN904, Tung-Sol 7802WA with graphite plates.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> Since we were talking about the "lean" nature of Telefunken tubes relative to other manufacturer's, thought I would do a little test and see how far back those tendencies go.  Was doing some headphone listening in the wee hours of the morning on my 6A5G amp with the Auteur.
> 
> First we have the Telefunken REN904, 1937 version with gold metallic paint.  While I think they are quite balanced overall, they do seem to have a more shimmery top end, symbols have a little more sparkle, the treble is just more present and well separated from the rest of the mix.  Don't sound lean or bright, but I will call the treble more refined.  Very balanced overall I would say.
> 
> ...


You've got pretty amps ... n tubes...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Thanks @chrisdrop , you've got some pretty amps and tubes yourself!  Let's face it, half the fun of this business is lusting after beautiful tubes...


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Just for fun, here is an interesting tube that happened to be in the same box as my REN904, Tung-Sol 7802WA with graphite plates.


Admit it Keenan, you're just taunting me, arent you?!?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Admit it Keenan, you're just taunting me, arent you?!?



LOL I would never!!!  I will lock the tubes away so they can no longer cause pain, never to be heard again.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> LOL I would never!!!  I will lock the tubes away so they can no longer cause pain, never to be heard again.


You know im kidding. Show them all you want. Ive resigned myself to the fact that I will never get a pair...and thats okay.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> You know im kidding. Show them all you want. Ive resigned myself to the fact that I will never get a pair...and thats okay.



I will keep them stowed away until I have an actual amp for them!  But who knows when that will be...


----------



## chrisdrop

Melz 6N12S output latest ...

They take a while to warm up in the amp and are a bit noisy for ~15 mins or so. This was even more when they 1st arrived but seems to be reducing/improving. 

They are slowly mellowing, but early on they were a bit biting. I think I've got around 30h on them so far. I suspect dr @mordy is right in that they have a longish burn-in time and that they will eventually be good. I'm not currently there, but I can see it happening. I didn't fancy them with the ECC31, so I've gone back to 2x Osram L63s and it is better, but not yet there. I'll persist!! 

I saw a tube seller called them 6BL7s. That is likely just tube propaganda/error. They don't look the same 6H12C/6N12S v 6BL7. 

Anyhow, I have 2 more on the way to match my other 4 for a 6-pack. Perhaps premature, but what the heck 

Happy rolling!


----------



## mordy

The 6N12S is a unique tube and does not really have an exact equivalent. They are 0.9A whereas the 6BL7 is 1.5A.
Any thoughts on clarity and instrument separation?


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> The 6N12S is a unique tube and does not really have an exact equivalent. They are 0.9A whereas the 6BL7 is 1.5A.
> Any thoughts on clarity and instrument separation?


6.3V / 0.9A / Dual triode would make it an ECC32 equivalent.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> 6.3V / 0.9A / Dual triode would make it an ECC32 equivalent.


Thanks - nice company!


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> 6.3V / 0.9A / Dual triode would make it an ECC32 equivalent.



And it is also a 5687 equivalent (but since it is a 9-pin, all-glass miniature, an adapter is necessary.)


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> And it is also a 5687 equivalent (but since it is a 9-pin, all-glass miniature, an adapter is necessary.)


This is supposed to be a 6SN7 equivalent:





The Melz 6N16B-V sub miniature tube, but I can't reconcile myself that it is the same as a 6SN7. And I feel the same way about a 5687 vs 6N12S. I don't have an ECC32 but I do have an ECC31 and these two are supposed to be close in sound, but to me the  ECC32 and the 6N12S are so different that I can't see them as equivalents.
Maybe we are both right, one opinion is about electric characteristics and one about sound.


----------



## chrisdrop

Xcalibur255 said:


> 6.3V / 0.9A / Dual triode would make it an ECC32 equivalent.


Hmm. Is it OK to just roll as an input via ECC32 adapter? 



mordy said:


> Any thoughts on clarity and instrument separation?


So far, I can hear what you are talking about, but still trying to get over the "bitingness". How long did burn-in take for you? I guess I had a similar feeling about 6BX7s, and eventually, they landed as one of my favourite sets of power tubes. So - I'm betting these will work out.


----------



## Zachik

Been quiet here for a few days... so I will throw a question out there:
*Anybody tried 6P5 and/or 6G5 tubes on the GOTL?*

6P5 is already in my compatibility table (link in my signature), so at some point someone must have asked me to add it... 6G5 is not in my table.
Judging by the names alone - can I assume they're pin compatible with 6J5 tubes?  What are the differences? Gain? something else?


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> Been quiet here for a few days... so I will throw a question out there:
> *Anybody tried 6P5 and/or 6G5 tubes on the GOTL?*
> 
> 6P5 is already in my compatibility table (link in my signature), so at some point someone must have asked me to add it... 6G5 is not in my table.
> Judging by the names alone - can I assume they're pin compatible with 6J5 tubes?  What are the differences? Gain? something else?



It appears that the 6G5 is not a triode, but a magic eye or tuning indicator, and if so, it won't work. But the 6P5 is essentially a #76 with an octal base, so it would be fine.


----------



## triod750

But admit that six 6G5 would look cool.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> It appears that the 6G5 is not a triode, but a magic eye or tuning indicator, and if so, it won't work. But the 6P5 is essentially a #76 with an octal base, so it would be fine.


Thank you Prof. Gibosi, our resident tube historian 
As I mentioned, 6P5 is already in my compatibility table. Can one use it with the same 2x6J5 to 6SN7 adapter, as a driver in the GOTL?



triod750 said:


> But admit that six 6G5 would look cool.


Well, I originally thought 2 x 6G5 as drivers (not output). Either would look cool for sure 
Gibosi mentioned it was a "magic eye" tube, so maybe a pair would be... magical experience? hmmm....


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Thank you Prof. Gibosi, our resident tube historian
> As I mentioned, 6P5 is already in my compatibility table. Can one use it with the same 2x6J5 to 6SN7 adapter, as a driver in the GOTL?
> 
> 
> ...





 It says Magic Eye, 1 Shadow Angle; green?
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6g5.html


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Thank you Prof. Gibosi, our resident tube historian
> As I mentioned, 6P5 is already in my compatibility table. Can one use it with the same 2x6J5 to 6SN7 adapter, as a driver in the GOTL?


The 6P5 should have the same pinout as the 6J5.


----------



## gibosi (Nov 16, 2020)

mordy said:


> It says Magic Eye, 1 Shadow Angle; green?
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6g5.html



It was used as a tuning tube. For example, in an FM tuner, while turning the tuning knob to tune in a station, the magic eye would glow when the FM tuner was perfectly adjusted. But I suspect that many here are too young to remember these.


----------



## Zachik (Nov 16, 2020)

mordy said:


> It says Magic Eye, 1 Shadow Angle; green?
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6g5.html


I have googled it, and came across the Wikipedia article... see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_eye_tube
On the top right, there is an animated GIF showing the EM34. *Now I want one of those!!!* 



@L0rdGwyn / @2359glenn / @A2029 - you gotta find a way to incorporate one of those in a tube amp build.

Edit: added the animated gif from Wikipedia. Hopefully it would show as animated (never included animated gifs before).


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> I have googled it, and came across the Wikipedia article... see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_eye_tube
> On the top right, there is an animated GIF showing the EM34. *Now I want one of those!!!*
> 
> @L0rdGwyn / @2359glenn / @A2029 - you gotta find a way to incorporate one of those in a tube amp build.
> ...



They were used in a lot of vintage tube radios.  I was pretty obsessed with getting one a few months back, they are gorgeous.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> It was used as a tuning tube. For example, in an FM tuner, while turning the tuning knob to tune in a station, the magic eye would glow when the FM tuner was perfectly adjusted. But I suspect that many here are too young to remember these.
> [/QUOTE
> Grew up with them. This is what got me hooked on Hi Fi - a Dux console:
> 
> ...


----------



## tubebuyer2020

There is a guy in Germany using magic eye tubes to make VU-meters and spectrum analysers. I managed not to buy any so far, but it was hard!






https://www.nixiekits.eu/product.php?key=magic_eye_vum

https://www.nixiekits.eu/product.php?key=em800_magilyzer


----------



## mordy

tubebuyer2020 said:


> There is a guy in Germany using magic eye tubes to make VU-meters and spectrum analysers. I managed not to buy any so far, but it was hard!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Read through the material - except for visual enjoyment, what is the practical use of these displays?


----------



## tubebuyer2020

mordy said:


> Read through the material - except for visual enjoyment, what is the practical use of these displays?



I guess in 2020 the visual enjoyment is the only practical use. Also you can show it to people unfamiliar with tubes and say that this exact component in the chain makes the sound so good and not the focal utopias in the end .


----------



## mordy

tubebuyer2020 said:


> I guess in 2020 the visual enjoyment is the only practical use. Also you can show it to people unfamiliar with tubes and say that this exact component in the chain makes the sound so good and not the focal utopias in the end .


Here is my visual enjoyment:


----------



## tubebuyer2020

mordy said:


> Here is my visual enjoyment:...



Love the blue overglow! Reminded me of these (though again, not practical for audio):


----------



## gibosi

tubebuyer2020 said:


> Love the blue overglow! Reminded me of these (though again, not practical for audio):




This is suitable for audio, an AX50 mercury vapor rectifier. But given that mercury vapor is nasty stuff, I'm too chicken to use it. lol


----------



## leftside

tubebuyer2020 said:


> There is a guy in Germany using magic eye tubes to make VU-meters and spectrum analysers. I managed not to buy any so far, but it was hard!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@A2029 



mordy said:


> Read through the material - except for visual enjoyment, what is the practical use of these displays?


You and your practicalities....


----------



## A2029

leftside said:


> @A2029



Would be interesting to use some of the magic eyes for VU meters. I'd just worry that they could inject some noise back into the circuit, though I haven't really looked into whether that would be a consideration or not. I find mercury tube rectifiers to be really beautiful as well, but unfortunately they are terribly noisy so a poor choice outside of their looks.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Read through the material - except for visual enjoyment, what is the practical use of these displays?





leftside said:


> You and your practicalities....


My thought exactly! Who cares about practical, as long as it is pretty?
What's next, @mordy - are you going to start caring how an amp sounds???


----------



## mordy

You and your practicalities.... 
[/QUOTE]
Hi L and Z, 
I have to admit that I am a protagonist of function over form. In other words, it is more important to me that it sounds good than looks good. On the other hand, if you can have both - very good, but no interest in bling.
We once had a salesman of high end stuff on the Feliks Audio forum and he said that if expensive tube equipment didn't have a lot of tube glow it did not sell.


----------



## mordy (Nov 16, 2020)

Pretty amps:










Pretty sound:






I am ducking in case somebody is throwing stuff at me....


----------



## Zachik

@mordy - with all honesty, I agree with you that it should sound good first! But I still would pay a little extra if it also looks good 
Case in point - when ordering the 6EL3N amp from Glenn last year, I paid $200+ extra for the very very pretty case for this amp. Would have sounded exactly the same on the same case type as the standard GOTL...

Also, for the record, I am not looking for bling but rather style!
*Bling:*




*Style:*


----------



## leftside (Nov 17, 2020)

I need style (or at least WAF) for my next amp. I tried to bring the Mischa "Thunder" amp into the living room in the summer. My wife immediately said "get that thing out of here!". She likes the Lampizator DAC with the copper case though, so I'm driving Mischa nuts at the moment trying to find a similar case for the next amp


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> I'm driving Mischa nuts at the moment trying to find a similar case for the next amp


Easy!  Order it from the same place that I ordered my 6EL3N case (and @L0rdGwyn is ordering all his cases from).
Landfall systems (https://www.landfallsystems.com/). Dave there is the greatest guy, and now they added powder coating service. Just got a case from him for a little DIY project... Powder coated with "super matte black" and it looks awesome. He can do ANY color you want, including copper for the wife!


----------



## mordy (Nov 18, 2020)

Here is an unusual looking 6080WB tube:



It is advertised as a Bendix tube, but the tube says Hytron. The plates are not graphite but metal. My guess is that it was a special production by Sylvania or Tung Sol made up for Hytron.
It can be yours for a mere $1049.00.
Here is the link to this well known sc mm r:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-WB-BE...795011?hash=item3b4e6c5d03:g:T4wAAOSw04dfX4Wn


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Here is an unusual looking 6080WB tube:
> 
> It is advertised as a Bendix tube, but the tube says Hytron. The plates are not graphite but metal. My guess is that it was a special production by Sylvania or Tung Sol made up for Hytron.
> It can be yours for a mere $1049.00.
> ...



Maybe my eyes are deceiving me, but those plates look like graphite to me, mordy!  Looks like it could be a rebranded Chatham 6080WB perhaps.


----------



## gibosi (Nov 18, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Maybe my eyes are deceiving me, but those plates look like graphite to me, mordy!  Looks like it could be a rebranded Chatham 6080WB perhaps.



The tube in that listing is a Bendix 6080 with graphite plates and purple ceramic spacers. These turn up on eBay every so often.

But it appears that towards the end, Bendix did in fact manufacture a metal plate 6080.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> The tube in that listing is a Bendix 6080 with graphite plates and purple ceramic spacers. These turn up on eBay every so often.
> 
> But it appears that towards the end, Bendix did in fact manufacture a metal plate 6080.



I know it is thought that the graphite plate Bendix 6080WB and Chatham/Tung-Sol 6080WB are one and the same, but I have long suspected that isn't the case.

Exhibit A: a pair of Chatham/Tung-Sol 6080WB I once owned, which explicitly state on the original box that they were manufactured by Chatham Electronics while under ownership of Tung-Sol, post acquisition.  As you can see, they also have graphite plates and purple ceramic spacers.

 

Exhibit B: a single Tung-Sol 7802WA with graphite plates, identical to those in the example above, also sporting the purple ceramic spacers.

This tube was only ever made by Tung-Sol, which would seem to suggest they also were also using graphite plates in their original designs.  Other examples of Tung-Sol/Chatham using graphite plates in their tubes can be found in their 6336 designs.



I think it's possible the two companies were using the same OEM parts suppliers, the reason why some of the internals are the same, but it is my belief they are two distinctly different tubes.  What do you think, @gibosi ?


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> I know it is thought that the graphite plate Bendix 6080WB and Chatham/Tung-Sol 6080WB are one and the same, but I have long suspected that isn't the case.
> 
> Exhibit A: a pair of Chatham/Tung-Sol 6080WB I once owned, which explicitly state on the original box that they were manufactured by Chatham Electronics while under ownership of Tung-Sol, post acquisition.  As you can see, they also have graphite plates and purple ceramic spacers.
> 
> ...



Of course I can't know for sure. 

Bendix to the left and Chatham to the right. Again, these appear to be virtually identical except for the color of the ceramic spacers and slotted versus solid plates. And the simplest explanation is that Bendix made both of them. But the existence of the TS7802 does tend to support the idea that perhaps Bendix sold complete internal subassemblies to Chatham for their use.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Of course I can't know for sure.
> 
> Bendix to the left and Chatham to the right. Again, these appear to be virtually identical except for the color of the ceramic spacers and slotted versus solid plates. And the simplest explanation is that Bendix made both of them. But the existence of the TS7802 does tend to support the idea that perhaps Bendix sold complete internal subassemblies to Chatham for their use.


At first I also thought that the tube had graphite plates, but the seller stated explicitly metal plates. However, I concur that it must be a graphite plate tube.
It appears to me then, that all of them were made by Bendix, notwithstanding that there may be boxes listing other manufacturers, especially since Bendix tubes can be found under many different names such as RCA, GE, Raytheon, various rebranders, etc - I even once saw a very different looking graphite 6080 made by Bendix for the German military.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 18, 2020)

Given that Chatham wrote "MFG. BY CHATHAM ELECTRONICS", perhaps subassemblies were always provided to them, and final manufacture was done in their factory.  One other bit of data if you can call it that: I have never seen a slotted plate version of a Tung-Sol/Chatham branded graphite 6080WB.

I guess it will remain a mystery...


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Given that Chatham wrote "MFG. BY CHATHAM ELECTRONICS", perhaps subassemblies were always provided to them, and final manufacture was done in their factory.  One other bit of data if you can call it that: I have never seen a slotted plate version of a Tung-Sol/Chatham branded graphite 6080WB.
> 
> I guess it will remain a mystery...


Part of the tube mystique.....
I have a 6BX7 tube with the GE sandblasted dots on it but all the other markings are from Tung Sol. Towards the end of the tube era there was a fair amount of cross branding.

Quote: "_I am drawn to vacuum tube equipment because of the inconvenience and expense."_


----------



## Zachik

Time for me to post a photo with new (to me) tube setup...  
I have bought a pair of EL6 tubes from @mordy (thank you, my friend!), and tested them on my 6EL3N amp.





Sharp eyed folks would ask:
Wait... I do not see headphones plugged in. What is going on?   
The hawk-eyed folks would notice the output select switch is set to speakers. Not headphones. There is a special reason for that!
After a long wait (well, long is relative term...) - I finally got my custom built Omega Speakers monitors. or is it bookshelf speakers? Hard to tell when each is: 12" wide by 20" tall by 14" deep... 





Those beauties have full range driver (on top) and amp'd subwoofer (on the bottom). Basshead's dream coming true with 2 front firing subwoofers!!! 
Driven by 6EL3N, I first tried it with sub turned-off... Sounded nice. Low end was kinda meh. Time to test the sub...
So, not knowing what to expect - I put the built-in sub's amp level dial at 12 o'clock (half way between min and max). Play Lorde's "Royals" track....... and.........
I almost pooped my pants!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
I LOVE BASS. A LOT. 
But this was a little too much for me   Lowered sub level to 9 o'clock. Perfect! (for now. will experiment A LOT more in the coming days and weeks)
Not only low end finally checked-in, but the sound as a whole was much fuller and a lot of (good) weight was added to the notes!

Forgot to mention above - the output tubes de-jour were the KT88 new production. 
That combination was very laid back and nice for Rock tracks, not as much for Metal, which felt.... wrong? 

Anyhow, wanted to share some new tube info (EL6 - thanks again @mordy), nice photos, and a shout out to Omega Speakers for gorgeous looking (and sounding) speakers!


----------



## leftside

Room has been reorganized and new custom Supratek preamp is in place. We have lift off  United Nations of USA, Canada, Poland, Australia, Denmark, Switzerland and UK.

Talk of the Glenn 300B is neglected on these threads, but it’s sounding amazing tonight. Can’t quite capture it in a photo with the rest of the gear tho. When I tidy up the room a little, I’ll see if I can get creative and I include it in a shot.


----------



## chrisdrop

leftside said:


> Room has been reorganized and new custom Supratek preamp is in place. We have lift off  United Nations of USA, Canada, Poland, Australia, Denmark, Switzerland and UK.
> 
> Talk of the Glenn 300B is neglected on these threads, but it’s sounding amazing tonight. Can’t quite capture it in a photo with the rest of the gear tho. When I tidy up the room a little, I’ll see if I can get creative and I include it in a shot.


Looking beautiful. I'm sure it is s beauty to hear too


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Nov 19, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Time for me to post a photo with new (to me) tube setup...
> I have bought a pair of EL6 tubes from @mordy (thank you, my friend!), and tested them on my 6EL3N amp.
> 
> 
> ...


Dang, those do not disappoint!  Congrats.  They look amazing.

How are you getting signal to the subs?  I've been VERY curious how the integration was going to be handled in this regard ever since you began pursuing this idea.  If Louis was able to pass high level to the sub amps interally from the binding posts for the Alnico driver and all that is connected on the back of the speaker are your normal speaker cables then I will be extremely impressed.  Also extremely interested in owning a set like this someday.


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> Dang, those do not disappoint! Congrats. They look amazing.


Thanks! Yes, they do look amazing, even more so in real life...



Xcalibur255 said:


> How are you getting signal to the subs? I've been VERY curious how the integration was going to be handled in this regard ever since you began pursuing this idea. If Louis was able to pass high level to the sub amps interally from the binding posts for the Alnico driver and all that is connected on the back of the speaker are your normal speaker cables then I will be extremely impressed. Also extremely interested in owning a set like this someday.


There are binding posts for the sub and the full-range Alnico driver. Louis connected them *externally *with speaker wires 
In the future, I could disconnect the wires and drive them separately, though I see no reason to do so.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Time for me to post a photo with new (to me) tube setup...
> I have bought a pair of EL6 tubes from @mordy (thank you, my friend!), and tested them on my 6EL3N amp.
> 
> 
> ...



Those are beautiful, Zachi, congrats!  Really like the burl wood finish, glad it all worked out.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

leftside said:


> Room has been reorganized and new custom Supratek preamp is in place. We have lift off  United Nations of USA, Canada, Poland, Australia, Denmark, Switzerland and UK.
> 
> Talk of the Glenn 300B is neglected on these threads, but it’s sounding amazing tonight. Can’t quite capture it in a photo with the rest of the gear tho. When I tidy up the room a little, I’ll see if I can get creative and I include it in a shot.



Nice setup!  The Suptratek is gorgeous.  What are the speakers just out of view?  I am on my way to a similar furniture overhaul.  Have some custom Sound Anchors stands on the way, then will be looking into a custom wood audio rack.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Time for me to post a photo with new (to me) tube setup...
> I have bought a pair of EL6 tubes from @mordy (thank you, my friend!), and tested them on my 6EL3N amp.
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats to the new Omega speakers! Went to their website but could not find anything that looks like your speakers - could you give a short description of what they are? (In addition, they have almost nothing to sell - everything is sold out!)


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 19, 2020)

mordy said:


> Congrats to the new Omega speakers! Went to their website but could not find anything that looks like your speakers - could you give a short description of what they are? (In addition, they have almost nothing to sell - everything is sold out!)



Hey mordy - since I am on the thread anyway, thought I would answer your question: Omega speakers are made to order, so you typically have to reach out to the owner (Louis) to tell him what you want.  He does a TON of custom work, so he can make you just about anything you want, within reason.  Zachik's speakers are a custom order.  If you go to his Instagram page, you can see a lot of the custom jobs he has done with some very pretty wood veneers.

https://www.instagram.com/omegaspeakers/?hl=en

I don't use social media (unless audio forums count ) , so I can only scroll a little ways down LOL but if you have an account, you can go way, way back in time 

Omega specializes in full-range driver, high-sensitivity speakers, they are very popular with the flea-watt tube amp crowd.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Time for me to post a photo with new (to me) tube setup...
> I have bought a pair of EL6 tubes from @mordy (thank you, my friend!), and tested them on my 6EL3N amp.
> 
> 
> ...



Speakers are drop dead gorgeous


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Those are beautiful, Zachi, congrats!  Really like the burl wood finish, glad it all worked out.


Beat me to it again  I too really like that wood finish.


----------



## Zachik (Nov 19, 2020)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey mordy - since I am on the thread anyway, thought I would answer your question: Omega speakers are made to order, so you typically have to reach out to the owner (Louis) to tell him what you want. He does a TON of custom work, so he can make you just about anything you want, within reason. Zachik's speakers are a custom order. If you go to his Instagram page, you can see a lot of the custom jobs he has done with some very pretty wood veneers.


Keenan is right on (of course) 
Out of the "standard" offerings, I went with the Alnico. See: https://omegaloudspeakers.com/products/compact-alnico-monitor?variant=32172350732
Louis claims that without the sub turned on - mine should sound exactly like this one...
Now, since I LOVE BASS - I was (rightfully) concerned the Alnico would be too anemic in the bass department. So... the customization for me was:
- Add front firing 8" subwoofer in each speaker (yeah, 2 subs!!!)
- Since the wall behind is 8" to 10" away, moved the port hole to the front
- Make the case MUCH bigger to accommodate the subwoofer
- Custom Walnut Burl wood veneer.

Each subwoofer comes with built-in dedicated Class D amp which is DEAD silent.

I do have a question for you all:
My previous speakers were ELACs that were 85dB (NOT sensitive at all).  The new Omegas are 94-95dB (MUCH more sensitive).
When music is not playing, but the amp is on - I can hear a little bit of noise floor / hiss from the full-range driver. (subwoofer is dead silent)
Tried it with 2 amps: quite powerful 100W / channel solid-state amp, and my Glenn 6EL3N which outputs 5-8W depending on output tubes used.
I am assuming the reason I never heard it before, and I do now, is because of the BIG change in speaker sensitivity.
That is a near-field setup, so my head is only 2-3 feet from the drivers... From 5+ feet I cannot hear it. From 2 feet, if the room is very quiet - I can faintly hear it.

Any advice / tips / tricks to mitigate the hiss?
This is NOT a showstopper!

Thanks.


----------



## leftside

L0rdGwyn said:


> Nice setup!  The Suptratek is gorgeous.  What are the speakers just out of view?  I am on my way to a similar furniture overhaul.  Have some custom Sound Anchors stands on the way, then will be looking into a custom wood audio rack.


Dynaudio speakers. Another great find from our local used audio site: Canuckaudiomart.com. Which is where I'll be listing my McIntosh C500T preamp this weekend.

I have a local wood worker just around the corner from me. They've now built my amp stands, turntable stand and bench in the middle you see in the photo. BTW - the turntable stand is more for convenience than "isolation". The room is a little wonky, and leveling the turntable perfectly can be a real pain. It's much easier to level the turntable stand first (there are adjustable feet that I attached) and then slightly adjust the feet of the turntable afterwards.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Keenan is right on (of course)
> Out of the "standard" offerings, I went with the Alnico. See: https://omegaloudspeakers.com/products/compact-alnico-monitor?variant=32172350732
> Louis claims that without the sub turned on - mine should sound exactly like this one...
> Now, since I LOVE BASS - I was (rightfully) concerned the Alnico would be too anemic in the bass department. So... the customization for me was:
> ...



Definitely due to the sensitivity.  If you are hearing it on two different amplifiers, next step is to eliminate other causes in the signal chain.  Disconnect the digital transport feeding the DAC, disconnect the DAC, etc. and see if the sound goes away.  Could possibly be a noisy tube in the Amber 3.



leftside said:


> Dynaudio speakers. Another great find from our local used audio site: Canuckaudiomart.com. Which is where I'll be listing my McIntosh C500T preamp this weekend.
> 
> I have a local wood worker just around the corner from me. They've now built my amp stands, turntable stand and bench in the middle you see in the photo. BTW - the turntable stand is more for convenience than "isolation". The room is a little wonky, and leveling the turntable perfectly can be a real pain. It's much easier to level the turntable stand first (there are adjustable feet that I attached) and then slightly adjust the feet of the turntable afterwards.



Cool!  That is super convenient, I will likely be going to a woodworker one state over from me.  Well the turntable stand also looks very classy, I'd imagine it is convenient to bring the VPI up closer to waist height as well for ease of record swapping, etc.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Definitely due to the sensitivity. If you are hearing it on two different amplifiers, next step is to eliminate other causes in the signal chain. Disconnect the digital transport feeding the DAC, disconnect the DAC, etc. and see if the sound goes away. Could possibly be a noisy tube in the Amber 3.


The Amber 3 noise floor has never been dead quiet, unfortunately.
However, switched my Solid State amp source to network (streaming Tidal) - still hisses.
To clarify, the solid state amp has a DAC and network built-in. So, in that config it is the only component feeding the speakers. No Amber 3 in the chain.
For reference: https://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-strata/


----------



## A2029 (Nov 19, 2020)

Zachik said:


> The Amber 3 noise floor has never been dead quiet, unfortunately.
> However, switched my Solid State amp source to network (streaming Tidal) - still hisses.
> To clarify, the solid state amp has a DAC and network built-in. So, in that config it is the only component feeding the speakers. No Amber 3 in the chain.
> For reference: https://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-strata/



Can you try disconnecting the external binding post wires from the sub portion of the speakers to make sure that it isn't some type of feedback from the sub to the full range through those connections?

Edit: Also, if you turn off the class D amp of the sub does that change the noise floor of the full range?


----------



## Zachik

A2029 said:


> Can you try disconnecting the external binding post wires from the sub portion of the speakers to make sure that it isn't some type of feedback from the sub to the full range through those connections?


Will try that - thanks Mischa for the suggestion!



A2029 said:


> Edit: Also, if you turn off the class D amp of the sub does that change the noise floor of the full range?


The noise floor from the full range driver was there even before turning on the class D amp. Will try to listen if the level of that noise floor changes when the class D amp is turned on/off.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Nov 19, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Thanks! Yes, they do look amazing, even more so in real life...
> 
> 
> There are binding posts for the sub and the full-range Alnico driver. Louis connected them *externally *with speaker wires
> In the future, I could disconnect the wires and drive them separately, though I see no reason to do so.


Zachi would you be able to take a photo of the back so we can see what this looks like?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Zachik said:


> The Amber 3 noise floor has never been dead quiet, unfortunately.
> However, switched my Solid State amp source to network (streaming Tidal) - still hisses.
> To clarify, the solid state amp has a DAC and network built-in. So, in that config it is the only component feeding the speakers. No Amber 3 in the chain.
> For reference: https://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-strata/



Mischa's advice is a good troubleshooting step, but I would say at least some of what you're hearing is just the typical noise floor of a SS amp.  My class D monoblocks in my TV system cause the speakers there to produce audible noise up to about 3-4 feet away and they are only 91dB sensitivity.  Most SS amps are not silent, people just never realize this because they are so often paired with speakers that are low sensitivity.


----------



## Mfalcon

Just wanted to chime in, I love my Glenn 300b with some Omega speakers and Subs.  Love it.  I’m in a small room 12’x14’ and have them nearfieldish.  Placing the subs was tough.  I connect my subs direct to preamp, and have my glenn 300b connected to the speakers.  I have the Glenn pot fixed and when I use it for headphones I use the pot for volume.

can’t say enough good things.


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> Also a side note..... I'm sure you've already heard this about Omegas, in fact I'm pretty sure you've heard it from me. But, the Alnico benefit


Looks like your post was truncated?



Xcalibur255 said:


> Zachi would you be able to take a photo of the back so we can see what this looks like?


Here you go. Too lazy to move the speakers right now (approx. 30 LBS each!!!) so that is the best I could do with my phone between the speaker and the wall behind it...









I will take better photos next time I move those heavy beasts


----------



## Xcalibur255

Hmm, I wonder if that changes the impedance the amplifier sees.

The other bit of text being there is pretty weird.  I had begun to write something the night before about how long the Alnico drivers take to break-in, but I'm sure you already know that so I deleted the text and didn't post it.  Somehow, on a different day and on a different computer that text I had deleted found itself back in the submit area and I didn't notice it.


----------



## Zachik

A2029 said:


> Can you try disconnecting the external binding post wires from the sub portion of the speakers to make sure that it isn't some type of feedback from the sub to the full range through those connections?
> 
> Edit: Also, if you turn off the class D amp of the sub does that change the noise floor of the full range?


Mischa - I have disconnected the external wires connecting the binding posts. No difference at all.
Turned on the class D amp - that did not make any audible difference at all. The subwoofer driver is dead silent either way, and the full-range driver maintained the exact same level of hiss / noise floor.
I have disconnected ALL inputs to the solid state amp, and tried selecting various inputs (all not connected, but wanted to hear if there is ANY audible difference). No difference at all.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 19, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Mischa - I have disconnected the external wires connecting the binding posts. No difference at all.
> Turned on the class D amp - that did not make any audible difference at all. The subwoofer driver is dead silent either way, and the full-range driver maintained the exact same level of hiss / noise floor.
> I have disconnected ALL inputs to the solid state amp, and tried selecting various inputs (all not connected, but wanted to hear if there is ANY audible difference). No difference at all.



Does the character of the sound change at all when swapping amplifiers / sources, or it is the same exact sound regardless of the component?  Also, dumb question, but you are hearing it both channels, correct?  Might want to run it by Louis too, he might have some other ideas.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Also, dumb question, but you are hearing it both channels, correct?


That is NOT a dumb questions, and yes - both channels are the same!



L0rdGwyn said:


> Might want to run it by Louis too, he might have some other ideas.


Already sent him an email yesterday... Will call tomorrow morning if I do not hear back by then.



L0rdGwyn said:


> Does the character of the sound change at all when swapping amplifiers / sources, or it is the same exact sound regardless of the component?


Will test and report back on this one!


----------



## maxpudding

leftside said:


> Room has been reorganized and new custom Supratek preamp is in place. We have lift off  United Nations of USA, Canada, Poland, Australia, Denmark, Switzerland and UK.
> 
> Talk of the Glenn 300B is neglected on these threads, but it’s sounding amazing tonight. Can’t quite capture it in a photo with the rest of the gear tho. When I tidy up the room a little, I’ll see if I can get creative and I include it in a shot.



Is this what heaven looks like?

Good looking VPI prime there


----------



## chrisdrop

Just rolling in a Visseaux 6N7GT with reliable old GEC 6080s. So far - so good. I've got s pair of these 6N7GTs and they took a while to burn in. At this point they are very nice !


----------



## chrisdrop

One more for the day. 2x firsts; (KenRad in this case) 76s is in the GOTL and (the ever questionable) double adapters needed. They are nice and full all around. They somehow have both a light characteristic & a (typically KenRad?) rounded thump too.


----------



## gibosi

chrisdrop said:


> One more for the day. 2x firsts; (KenRad in this case) 76s is in the GOTL and (the ever questionable) double adapters needed. They are nice and full all around. They somehow have both a light characteristic & a (typically KenRad?) rounded thump too.



Nice! My favorite 76 is the RCA.


----------



## gibosi

For those who might be interested in the 5694, this vendor is selling a lot of 7.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184545109116


----------



## gibosi

As it's been a long time since I rolled in a GEC BL63 / VR102 so decided to see how it sounds with the 6N12S. I think it needs more burn in, but so far I'm liking what I hear.


----------



## mordy

Here is a question: I have an adapter with an anode cap where the wire is too short for some tubes and I want to make it longer. It so happens that I have two pieces of wire with anode caps from a defective adapter. Is it dangerous to just push in the leads into the anode caps and keep them in place with some kind of plug to get a longer wire? Somewhere back in my mind there is something about high voltage (150V?) and memories of getting shocked back in the Little Dot days.
I am not good at soldering etc and I am trying to avoid cutting the original wires to the anode caps.


----------



## gibosi (Nov 22, 2020)

Something completely off topic, but perhaps of interest to some folks of a certain age, sixty-one years ago, Rocket "Rocky" J. Squirrel and Bullwinkle J. Moose were introduced to America. The show, _The Adventures of_ _Rocky and Bullwinkle and Friends_ premiered on November 19, 1959


----------



## chrisdrop

OK. I rotated amps so the GOTL is home now. Withr VCs and loads of burning in - I'm quite into these Melz outputs. Tx for the recommendation @mordy and @gibosi for the exploration.

They do have a nice spaciousness to them indeed. 

I've got 2 more on the way to make it a six pack...


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> OK. I rotated amps so the GOTL is home now. Withr VCs and loads of burning in - I'm quite into these Melz outputs. Tx for the recommendation @mordy and @gibosi for the exploration.
> 
> They do have a nice spaciousness to them indeed.
> 
> I've got 2 more on the way to make it a six pack...


The credit goes to Triod750 who found them.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Here is a question: I have an adapter with an anode cap where the wire is too short for some tubes and I want to make it longer. It so happens that I have two pieces of wire with anode caps from a defective adapter. Is it dangerous to just push in the leads into the anode caps and keep them in place with some kind of plug to get a longer wire? Somewhere back in my mind there is something about high voltage (150V?) and memories of getting shocked back in the Little Dot days.
> I am not good at soldering etc and I am trying to avoid cutting the original wires to the anode caps.



It only hurts for a second !
Try some of these cut one off then cut the wire stick one wire in one side one in the other ant tighten the set screws. Easy peasy I use these at work all the time.


----------



## 2359glenn

2359glenn said:


> It only hurts for a second !
> Try some of these cut one off then cut the wire stick one wire in one side one in the other ant tighten the set screws. Easy peasy I use these at work all the time.


Armacost Lighting Quick Connect Terminal Block (3-Pack)-920030 - The Home Depot


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> It only hurts for a second !
> Try some of these cut one off then cut the wire stick one wire in one side one in the other ant tighten the set screws. Easy peasy I use these at work all the time.


Thanks for the good advice! My problem is that the adapter is on loan and I cannot change it by cutting the wires.....
But good to know an easy solution and also thanks to gibosi for the picture of the terminal block.


----------



## mordy

More problems - has anybody had problems receiving items from China lately?
Ordered four different small items over the past 3 months:
One never arrived - refund
One item arrived in 10 days
Two other items were ordered almost 5 weeks ago and have not arrived.
What is considered normal delivery time in these times? eBay just states that Chinese shipments may be delayed.


----------



## pippen99

I ordered a DAP case on 08/20.  It was shipped on 09/05 and delivered on 09/19


----------



## maxpudding

mordy said:


> More problems - has anybody had problems receiving items from China lately?
> Ordered four different small items over the past 3 months:
> One never arrived - refund
> One item arrived in 10 days
> ...



I’m in Malaysia and depending on which platform I used for online shopping it can be one month to three months. Most items I bought from aliexpress will arrive within 4-8 weeks time.


----------



## whirlwind

Happy Thanksgiving to you Glenn and to everybody else.
Hope you all enjoy your day.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> Happy Thanksgiving everyone!



Hey Sam,
Nice to see you still around, I can only assume that you are at a very nice place in your audio journey    
Hope all is well on your end. It has been a crazy year in my little part of the world in a small town in Ohio.


----------



## whirlwind

These beauties arrived from Spain not too many days ago.








@Zachik a pair of these will be off to their new home some time this afternoon.


----------



## leftside

^^^ GEC KT63


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> ^^^ GEC KT63



Yes


----------



## gibosi

It's fairly quiet here and I assume that most Americans are feeling pretty lethargic after eating too much turkey. lol. So I thought this would be a good time to highlight another rectifier that no one else is interested in. lol 

This is a ZWLE (Zaklady Wytworcze Lamp Elektronowych) AZ4 manufactured in Warsaw in 1957. The ZWLE factory apparently arose like a "Phoenix" out of the "ashes" of two old pre-WWII factories, one Telefunken and one Tungsram, in 1948. This AZ4 is unique in my experience in that it has a ‘low loss’ brown micanol base and to my eyes, the build quality seems exceptional.

And not surprisingly the sound reminds me of Telefunken and Tungsram, somewhat thin in the upper base and lower midrange. But paired with a warm driver and/or output tube, it shines.

NB: This rectifier is too puny for the Glenn OTL with two or more 6AS7G-type output tubes, but works fine with a quad of 6BL7 or similar. And of course, it is also fine in a Glenn EL3N.


----------



## triod750

I like puny, the word that is.


----------



## gibosi

triod750 said:


> I like puny, the word that is.



I probably should have put puny in quotes, "puny", as I learned this word in regard to rectifiers from Glenn.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Hey Sam,
> Nice to see you still around, I can only assume that you are at a very nice place in your audio journey
> Hope all is well on your end. It has been a crazy year in my little part of the world in a small town in Ohio.



Hi Joe,
Hope that you are well too. I’m still “surviving” with the stuff which I currently own and have not been seeing much reason to change after getting the Dave. The GEL3N still pairs beautifully with the Abyss and Auteur, couldn’t help thinking that the GEL3N is the best purchase I have made along my headfi journey.
Take care and stay safe!


----------



## attmci (Nov 29, 2020)

Guys, guess how much is this AC line conditioner:


----------



## chrisdrop

attmci said:


> Guys, guess how much is this AC line conditioner:


I'm guessing expensive, so I'll offer a wide guess @ $800-$1200.


----------



## attmci (Nov 29, 2020)

chrisdrop said:


> I'm guessing expensive, so I'll offer a wide guess @ $800-$1200.


Audio Excellence Power Wing II AC line conditioner and filter handmade in the USA





Nov 29



Audio Excellence Power Wing II AC line conditioner and filter handmade in the USA. This unit was designed and built by Alan Kafton, creator of the Audiodharma Cable Cooker. It uses an 18-guage, non-magnetic stainless steel chassis, 14-gauge stainless steel top plate, and CNC-fabricated one-inch-thick Corian end-caps. The Corian supports allow the Power Wing II to be placed either on its sides inside an equipment rack, for example, or upright next to or behind equipment racks. It measures 20” long by 5” wide by 5.5” tall.
Features include 3 Oyaide R-1 outlets and an R-1 IEC inlet, a Bybee large Gold Bullet, and fo Q. damping material applied to internal surfaces. An ultra-fast Carlingswitch™ magnetic circuit breaker was chosen for the on-off switch, the first line of defense in the three-stage surge and spike protection circuit.
The unit’s total cost to me was $4,600 and it’s being offered at $1,950 plus shipping.


----------



## chrisdrop

attmci said:


> Audio Excellence Power Wing II AC line conditioner and filter handmade in the USA
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I sure undershot "expensive"!


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> I sure undershot "expensive"!


Yeah, and they cheap'd out on the marble... Used Corian instead for the end-caps...


----------



## triod750

But they do sound good though. You neither need amp nor headphones. Just shell out all your money on this marvel.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I use an isolation transformer.


----------



## cddc

attmci said:


> Guys, guess how much is this AC line conditioner:





attmci said:


> Audio Excellence Power Wing II AC line conditioner and filter handmade in the USA
> 
> 
> 
> *The unit’s total cost to me was $4,600 *and it’s being offered at $1,950 plus shipping.



Dude, so you spent $4,600 on a fancy power strip???!!!  ....can't believe it...

I'm not a believer of these cables, fuses, power strips/outlets, or any peripherals. These things might be able to micro-tune the sound a little bit, if at all. But isn't it better to use that money to buy an isolation transformer as LG suggested, or some fancy battery powered inverter, or even better a better tube amp or DAC?


----------



## triod750

I doubt that he bought it. But... how much of our doings is about tuning the sound and how much is about tuning our brains?


----------



## tubebuyer2020

Do isolation transformers give exactly same impact as linear power supplies do? I have some whine when using higher volume on my amp.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

To get the maximum benefit of an isolation transformer, it should have an electrostatic shield in place and very low inter-winding capacitance.  This minimizes the degree of noise coupled from the AC mains to the secondary winding of the transformer, i.e. your gear.  Linear power supplies are favored over switch-mode power supplies in audio applications due to concerns of high-frequency switching noise, which is a different issue altogether.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> To get the maximum benefit of an isolation transformer, it should have an electrostatic shield in place and very low inter-winding capacitance.  This minimizes the degree of noise coupled from the AC mains to the secondary winding of the transformer, i.e. your gear.  Linear power supplies are favored over switch-mode power supplies in audio applications due to concerns of high-frequency switching noise, which is a different issue altogether.


Could you give a price range for a good quality isolation transformer? I once tried an inexpensive one used in telephone systems but that one did not help.


----------



## mordy (Nov 30, 2020)

For the man who has everything - a pair of tube socks. As an added bonus, this is a matched pair:




Free with $25 purchase - they are having a sale as well.
https://mailchi.mp/vivatubes/2020cybermonday?e=f9397ea8b9

PS: I usually wear tube socks but mine are all black.....


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> For the man who has everything - a pair of tube socks. As an added bonus, this is a matched pair:
> 
> Free with $25 purchase - they are having a sale as well.
> https://mailchi.mp/vivatubes/2020cybermonday?e=f9397ea8b9
> ...


Vivatubes have a pretty good 25% discount on new production tubes, BTW. Might pick up a pair for my 6EL3N amp...

@mordy - would wearing those socks while listening to a tube amp count as double-amping? 
Also, would those socks add warmth?
(sorry - could not resist the lame jokes...)


----------



## gibosi

These arrived in today's mail and I'm looking forward to rolling them in later today.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Vivatubes have a pretty good 25% discount on new production tubes, BTW. Might pick up a pair for my 6EL3N amp...
> 
> @mordy - would wearing those socks while listening to a tube amp count as double-amping?
> Also, would those socks add warmth?
> (sorry - could not resist the lame jokes...)


I like your jokes. Wanted to click like twice but discovered that that un-likes the like lol.......


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> Could you give a price range for a good quality isolation transformer? I once tried an inexpensive one used in telephone systems but that one did not help.


I wonder if the TrippLite ISOlators would work for this, or if they don't meet the capacitance requirement...?  I see many references to people using the old Topaz transformers for this, but it's impossible to actually find one.  The occasional odd duck on eBay is usually a salvage piece that may or may not hum, may or may not be re-wireable, etc.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Could you give a price range for a good quality isolation transformer? I once tried an inexpensive one used in telephone systems but that one did not help.



Hey mordy - the "good" ones can be pretty pricey.  Old Topaz isolation transformers are sought after as they have very low interwinding capacitance, they will go for $150-400 on eBay depending on the size, one of those things where you have to search for a deal.  I paid roughly $200 for mine which is a 2.5kVA transformer.


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> I wonder if the TrippLite ISOlators would work for this


They work for me.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> These arrived in today's mail and I'm looking forward to rolling them in later today.


Doesn't look like rectifiers?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Doesn't look like rectifiers?



You are right! These are Russian Svetlana 6N5S, which apparently preceded the 6N13S. And until about 1955, the 6N5S had RCA-like shields below the bottom mica spacer. And also, this was before "flying saucer" getters were introduced.

A mid-1950's Russian ensemble:

Melz 1578 (1958), a pair of Svetlana 6N5S (one 1953 and one 1955, both with shields below the bottom mica spacer) and a Svetlana 5C3S (1957). And it sounds good! In my experience, Svetlana production tends to be somewhat dark and the Melz adds some air and treble. Quite nice.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> You are right! These are Russian Svetlana 6N5S, which apparently preceded the 6N13S. And until about 1955, the 6N5S had RCA-like shields below the bottom mica spacer. And also, this was before "flying saucer" getters were introduced.
> 
> A mid-1950's Russian ensemble:
> 
> Melz 1578 (1958), a pair of Svetlana 6N5S (one 1953 and one 1955, both with shields below the bottom mica spacer) and a Svetlana 5C3S (1957). And it sounds good! In my experience, Svetlana production tends to be somewhat dark and the Melz adds some air and treble. Quite nice.


I have Svetlana 6N5S which is the same as 6N13S but a Russian amp designer told me that the 6N5S was made with tighter tolerances for the military.


----------



## chrisdrop

Just an evening appreciation pic. Enjoying everything at the moment 😊


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> I have Svetlana 6N5S which is the same as 6N13S but a Russian amp designer told me that the 6N5S was made with tighter tolerances for the military.


 I used in my Elise amplifier 6N5S tubes for output. I was also told by a Russian tube seller that this is a military grade 6N13S and best one are the oldest before 1963.... What I've seen with my lampmeter is that the two triodes are more balanced than a majority of the 6N13S i have. This can make a big difference for amplifier using only one fore output...
I was pairing with foton 1578 tube to have a full soviet set.. I still like a lot the 1578 as driver specially on my small CTH..


----------



## triod750

I always thought that 1578 was a designation for selected Melz 6H8C metal base tubes with round holes in plates. Are your Foton tubes actually marked 1578?
(I like my Melz 6H8C standard tubes with slits in plates very much for their detail and transparency. They are a bit lean in the bottom but I can live with that).


----------



## Zachik

Anyone looking for a 6-pack of 6BX7 tubes for their GOTL:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174544178272?ul_noapp=true

*Please note:* I have never bought from this seller.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Anyone looking for a 6-pack of 6BX7 tubes for their GOTL:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/174544178272?ul_noapp=true
> 
> *Please note:* I have never bought from this seller.



Great way to get a matched set!


----------



## gibosi

Yes, only Melz manufactured the 1578. But for sure, the Foton 6H8C is also a very good tube, IMHO. 

I'm enjoying the old 6N5S (early to mid-1950's) as output tubes more than I expected. And sometimes I am rewarded with a nice blue glow. But it doesn't happen every time I turn the amp on and it seems that it is more pronounced in pictures than in "real life". lol 

It's been a while since I rolled in the GEC BL63 / VR102, and coupled with the Cossor 53KU, this is a good sound for a cold Saturday afternoon.


----------



## gibosi (Dec 5, 2020)

gibosi said:


> Yes, only Melz manufactured the 1578. But for sure, the Foton 6H8C is also a very good tube, IMHO.
> 
> I'm enjoying the old 6N5S (early to mid-1950's) as output tubes more than I expected. And sometimes I am rewarded with a nice blue glow. But it doesn't happen every time I turn the amp on and it seems that it is more pronounced in pictures than in "real life". lol
> 
> It's been a while since I rolled in the GEC BL63 / VR102, and coupled with the Cossor 53KU, this is a good sound for a cold Saturday afternoon.




For those unfamiliar with the GEC BL63 / VR102, it has been described by some as a 6F8G on steroids. The pinout is the same, but usually the grid connection wire on a 6F8G adapter isn't long enough.



While I think many here have shifted to using single triodes and triode-strapped pentodes as drivers, thought I would provide this info on the chance that someone might be interested....


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> For those unfamiliar with the GEC BL63 / VR102, it has been described by some as a 6F8G on steroids. The pinout is the same, but usually the grid connection wire on a 6F8G adapter isn't long enough.
> 
> 
> 
> While I think many here have shifted to using single triodes and triode-strapped pentodes as drivers, thought I would provide this info on the chance that someone might be interested....


My preamp only takes 6SN7. I was hoping to use ECC33 and ECC32 but they provide too much gain for the preamp. 6J5 adapters would take away from the look of the preamp, so I'm on the 6SN7 hunt again. Thanks for posting.


----------



## triod750

leftside said:


> My preamp only takes 6SN7. I was hoping to use ECC33 and ECC32 but they provide too much gain for the preamp. 6J5 adapters would take away from the look of the preamp, so I'm on the 6SN7 hunt again. Thanks for posting.


Which 6SN7 is your preference of what you have?


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Yes, only Melz manufactured the 1578. But for sure, the Foton 6H8C is also a very good tube, IMHO.
> 
> I'm enjoying the old 6N5S (early to mid-1950's) as output tubes more than I expected. And sometimes I am rewarded with a nice blue glow. But it doesn't happen every time I turn the amp on and it seems that it is more pronounced in pictures than in "real life". lol
> 
> It's been a while since I rolled in the GEC BL63 / VR102, and coupled with the Cossor 53KU, this is a good sound for a cold Saturday afternoon.


Re the Foton tube it is necessary to point out that the best sounding Foton 6H8C tubes were made between 1952 and 1955 and had a ladder type plate. Other later Foton tubes do not sound as good.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> For those unfamiliar with the GEC BL63 / VR102, it has been described by some as a 6F8G on steroids. The pinout is the same, but usually the grid connection wire on a 6F8G adapter isn't long enough.
> 
> 
> 
> While I think many here have shifted to using single triodes and triode-strapped pentodes as drivers, thought I would provide this info on the chance that someone might be interested....


Thanks for the info!
What does a VR101 correspond to?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Thanks for the info!
> What does a VR101 correspond to?



To my knowledge, it does not correspond to any other tube. It is quite unique:

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0300.htm

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_bl63.html

6.3volts, 1.3amps and a mu of 12. Superficially, perhaps one might say it is a GEC version of a 6BX7 / 6BL7?


----------



## leftside

triod750 said:


> Which 6SN7 is your preference of what you have?


ECC32 and ECC33  There are many more people on here with much greater experience than me with 6SN7, as I've primarily been using 6J5, the previously mentioned ECC32 and ECC33 and also 6SL7, 12SL7 and 12SN7. But the "real" 6SN7 I like are the following: Marconi black base B65 (I also have the metal base version, but for the price they sell these days I dare not even take them out the boxes), Sylvania 6SN7GT/VT-231 foil getter tall glass 1940's, RCA smoked glass VT231 1945, and of course the very pricey tubes that are on everyone's top 10 list: TS BGRP, Sylvania 6SN7W metal base, RCA 5692 red base.

The cheaper 6SN7's I like are Sylvania 6SN7GTA tall glass chrome dome 1955, Westinghouse 6SN7GTB tall glass top D getter 1957, RCA 6SN7GTA side D getter 1955, CBS 6NS7GTB side D getter 1961, GE 6SN7GTB side O getter coin base 70's/80'? So many different types... but even Brent Jessee has plenty at reasonable prices (i.e. under $100/pair): http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm

A lot of us on here though have the 12 volt switch or amps that can take 6J5. I think the 12 volt versions or 6J5 sound just as good/if not better than the most expensive 6SN7's and for far cheaper.


----------



## Zachik

This evening, my listening pleasure has been a team effort of sorts...
The amp, my beloved 6EL3N, built with love by @2359glenn 
Driver tubes - EL6 pair from @mordy 
Output tubes - KT63 pair from @whirlwind 





Others have already said it, but I will repeat anyhow:
Glenn's builds make great sound from ANY tube. Nothing sounds bad!
I feel the 6EL3N in general, compared to the GOTL - is less aggressive, more refined, smoother but without any loss of details, and has a quieter background (lower noise floor).  VERY enjoyable


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> ECC32 and ECC33  There are many more people on here with much greater experience than me with 6SN7, as I've primarily been using 6J5, the previously mentioned ECC32 and ECC33 and also 6SL7, 12SL7 and 12SN7. But the "real" 6SN7 I like are the following: Marconi black base B65 (I also have the metal base version, but for the price they sell these days I dare not even take them out the boxes), Sylvania 6SN7GT/VT-231 foil getter tall glass 1940's, RCA smoked glass VT231 1945, and of course the very pricey tubes that are on everyone's top 10 list: TS BGRP, Sylvania 6SN7W metal base, RCA 5692 red base.
> 
> The cheaper 6SN7's I like are Sylvania 6SN7GTA tall glass chrome dome 1955, Westinghouse 6SN7GTB tall glass top D getter 1957, RCA 6SN7GTA side D getter 1955, CBS 6NS7GTB side D getter 1961, GE 6SN7GTB side O getter coin base 70's/80'? So many different types... but even Brent Jessee has plenty at reasonable prices (i.e. under $100/pair): http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm
> 
> A lot of us on here though have the 12 volt switch or amps that can take 6J5. I think the 12 volt versions or 6J5 sound just as good/if not better than the most expensive 6SN7's and for far cheaper.





Zachik said:


> This evening, my listening pleasure has been a team effort of sorts...
> The amp, my beloved 6EL3N, built with love by @2359glenn
> Driver tubes - EL6 pair from @mordy
> Output tubes - KT63 pair from @whirlwind
> ...




I never get tired of seeing pics of that beautiful amp!


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> I never get tired of seeing pics of that beautiful amp!


I never get tired of staring at it with glazed "in-love" eyes 
In fact, after being on Head-Fi for almost 6 years - I have *finally* changed my little profile photo just a few days ago. Yup, I chose my 6EL3N amp!!  Was hard to decide between that, and one of my ZMF cans...


----------



## Velozity

@Zachik that amp always makes me drool.  I would love to have one someday.  Speaking of which, has anybody heard/talked to @2359glenn lately?  He hasn't posted much, I hope he's settling in to his new routine ok.  This thread is moving much slower than it used to.


----------



## gibosi

Yes, this thread has been pretty quiet recently. So thought I would add a little more tube porn. 

I continue to play with the old Russian 6N5S and the GEC VL102. And after reading a post in another forum extolling the virtues of the 596 rectifier, thought I would roll it in. Sounds great. But then we all know that almost everything sounds great in a Glenn.


----------



## carlman14

Velozity said:


> Speaking of which, has anybody heard/talked to @2359glenn lately?



I've been trying to reach him. I've been waiting on my GOTL for 1.5 years now, and haven't heard from him in a while


----------



## DecentLevi (Dec 8, 2020)

@mordy a while ago I told you I'd give some details on the impact of ferrite chokes on my system in general. I've completely transformed the sound of my system on all cable types using various combinations of hi-end versions, and you can see a general idea from my post here. It doesn't go into detail on the sonic difference made for each cable, that's something one can discover according to preference matched to each unique system - but this gives a very good general overview of the application:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...-in-depth-review.833933/page-54#post-16023884

The above link also goes over improvements from sorbothane sheets as dampening material under your components, which to me made very positive improvements in the bass and dynamics with both my SS and tube amps; my (Quad PA One +) tube amp using the 1/4" sorbathane sheet combined with *these* anti-vibration feet. These may very well be worth trying in various configurations on your Glenn amps as well. I've heard an immediate difference for better or worse every time after countless dozens of experiments, the trick is to find which specific config. makes it sound better to your tastes.


----------



## iFi audio

DecentLevi said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...-in-depth-review.833933/page-54#post-16023884



Many thanks!


----------



## leftside

Thinking of using the EL34 in the GELN amp? There's a few different variations to choose from... I just picked up this 365 page(!) book on all the different EL34 variations.
https://digilander.libero.it/pasqua49/GUIDE TO EL34/guide to EL34 6CA7.htm


----------



## Zachik

365 pages just for EL34 tubes?!   
How much does he charge for the PDF?


----------



## leftside

Zachik said:


> 365 pages just for EL34 tubes?!
> How much does he charge for the PDF?


26 euro. It's great. I've started reading it this evening. I think the guy who wrote the book managed to collect all these different variations.


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> 26 euro. It's great. I've started reading it this evening. I think the guy who wrote the book managed to collect all these different variations.


Sell enough copies at 26 EUR each, and you can finance a tube collection...


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Thinking of using the EL34 in the GELN amp? There's a few different variations to choose from... I just picked up this 365 page(!) book on all the different EL34 variations.
> https://digilander.libero.it/pasqua49/GUIDE TO EL34/guide to EL34 6CA7.htm




Oh man...not sure owning this would be a good thing or a bad thing...just kidding      
That is a lot of EL34 tubes after hearing the XF2's it does make me want to try a few others that gets spoken of highly.


----------



## Galapac

Has anyone heard from Glenn lately? 
I hope all is well.


----------



## whirlwind

Galapac said:


> Has anyone heard from Glenn lately?
> I hope all is well.



No, it has been very quiet here lately.


----------



## Galapac

Well that doesn’t sound good.
If anyone has his phone number or knows him personally from here they should check on him.
I left him a PM but never got a response.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Galapac said:


> Has anyone heard from Glenn lately?
> I hope all is well.


Well, I heard from Glenn a week back... he indicated the COVID is out of control & he is trying to manage the work - life without getting infected. God bless him & keep him safe.
I guess in the US the situation is not very good. Let's keep the fingers crossed... may this global pandemic at least let us live without fear soon.


----------



## hpamdr

triod750 said:


> I always thought that 1578 was a designation for selected Melz 6H8C metal base tubes with round holes in plates. Are your Foton tubes actually marked 1578?
> (I like my Melz 6H8C standard tubes with slits in plates very much for their detail and transparency. They are a bit lean in the bottom but I can live with that).


 Sorry for late reply...
You are right, Foton are labelled 6H8C and metal base Melz 1578. All are in the same drawer as i got them in the same "lot". The one i have in this drawer are from 1958 which confused me...


----------



## triod750

hpamdr said:


> Sorry for late reply...
> You are right, Foton are labelled 6H8C and metal base Melz 1578. All are in the same drawer as i got them in the same "lot". The one i have in this drawer are from 1958 which confused me...



But your metal base Melz 1578 have round holes in plates? I've seen photos of Melz 6H8C with round holes in plates too. As I interpret it, they didn't qualify as 1578. I'm just guessing. (All Melz I've seen have metal base).


----------



## leftside

@gibosi I have an interesting one for you. I've been doing a fair bit of reading about Philips lately as I've been on the hunt for the close ancestors to the EL34 tube (but that's another story).  I think I've figured out the date codes, but here is an interesting one:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/4-x-NOS-608...d-Philips-Same-Codes-AJ1-R2J-NIB/264594487952

AJ = 6080
1 = ?
R = Mullard Mitcham factory
2 = 1952 or 1962
J = October

Apparently, with Philips, the "old" code format of 5 characters changed to the "new" code format of 6 characters in 1955/56 (as above) and then to 7 characters in 1961 with the week added. So, I believe the above is 1962 with Mullard/Mitcham being a year behind the parent company Philips in adopting the 7 characters. Thoughts?


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> @gibosi I have an interesting one for you. I've been doing a fair bit of reading about Philips lately as I've been on the hunt for the close ancestors to the EL34 tube (but that's another story).  I think I've figured out the date codes, but here is an interesting one:
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/4-x-NOS-608...d-Philips-Same-Codes-AJ1-R2J-NIB/264594487952
> 
> AJ = 6080
> ...



I would agree. 1962 makes the most sense. In fact, Mullard never used the old Philips code. They used their own internal code up until 1955/56 and then switched directly to the new Philips code. So there is no way it could be 1952. And if the tube was manufactured in 1972, you would see the 7 character code.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> I would agree. 1962 makes the most sense. In fact, Mullard never used the old Philips code. They used their own internal code up until 1955/56 and then switched directly to the new Philips code. So there is no way it could be 1952. And if the tube was manufactured in 1972, you would see the 7 character code.


That was my thinking as well. This would also explain why some Mullard tubes I have prior to 1955 have completely different codes to ones after.


----------



## triod750

chrisdrop said:


> Melz 6N12S output latest ...
> 
> They take a while to warm up in the amp and are a bit noisy for ~15 mins or so. This was even more when they 1st arrived but seems to be reducing/improving.
> 
> ...



If you still find them biting you could try Mazda ECC804 as driver. This tube tames the edge for me. The texture in the bass becomes better too.


----------



## Sound Trooper

I am still using EL34 tubes (XF2, double o getters) with my GEL3N and totally love it. 



leftside said:


> Thinking of using the EL34 in the GELN amp? There's a few different variations to choose from... I just picked up this 365 page(!) book on all the different EL34 variations.
> https://digilander.libero.it/pasqua49/GUIDE TO EL34/guide to EL34 6CA7.htm


----------



## whirlwind

Sound Trooper said:


> I am still using EL34 tubes (XF2, double o getters) with my GEL3N and totally love it.



Imagine what we might find in that 365 page book on the EL34      scary!
That being said a metal base pair and a couple older pair would be cool to have.


----------



## Sound Trooper

whirlwind said:


> Imagine what we might find in that 365 page book on the EL34      scary!
> That being said a metal base pair and a couple older pair would be cool to have.



Oh yes.. a metal base pair would do nicely for Xmas.

As this crazy year slowly winds to a conclusion, I now have a bit more time to indulge in my pleasures. No matter if it is the Abyss, Auteur or even my cheapo HD560S, the GEL3N sounds fantastic with everything.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Imagine what we might find in that 365 page book on the EL34      scary!
> That being said a metal base pair and a couple older pair would be cool to have.


It is scary. Which metal base would you like? There are a lot of variations. I'm sure someone at Philips in the 50's said "this is going to drive collectors nuts in the years to come - let's make yet another new variation - and hey just for good measure, let's label some of them Valvo, Amperex, Mullard and Philips. Then we'll come up with an obscure coding system, and then we'll come up with different coding systems to confuse them further".


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> It is scary. Which metal base would you like? There are a lot of variations. I'm sure someone at Philips in the 50's said "this is going to drive collectors nuts in the years to come - let's make yet another new variation - and hey just for good measure, let's label some of them Valvo, Amperex, Mullard and Philips. Then we'll come up with an obscure coding system, and then we'll come up with different coding systems to confuse them further".
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Yeah this has to be pure crazyness. trying to decipher all of this...to cut through the chase I would opt fpr Mullard and feel very happy about it


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> It is scary. Which metal base would you like? There are a lot of variations. I'm sure someone at Philips in the 50's said "this is going to drive collectors nuts in the years to come - let's make yet another new variation - and hey just for good measure, let's label some of them Valvo, Amperex, Mullard and Philips. Then we'll come up with an obscure coding system, and then we'll come up with different coding systems to confuse them further".


It is known that the British vacuum tube industry could not compete price wise with American manufacturers and this is one reason why the BVA purposely came up with confusing and cryptic designations so that it would be difficult to determine equivalents.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Yeah this has to be pure crazyness. trying to decipher all of this...to cut through the chase I would opt fpr Mullard and feel very happy about it



Yeah, it is craziness. And I've got "Philips" tubes, EL41 and EL42, manufactured in Australia, Argentina and Spain. lol 

But so far, Mullard EL42 have been spending the most time in my amp.


----------



## leftside (Dec 13, 2020)

whirlwind said:


> Yeah this has to be pure crazyness. trying to decipher all of this...to cut through the chase I would opt fpr Mullard and feel very happy about it


Who were owned by Philips  

I can see why people hunt for the factory codes more than the stated manufacturer label/print on the tube. I have a GEC 6080 with the Mullard print/label, and I am sure there are countless other examples of other types of rebranding - even outside of the Philips "empire". We've already discussed quite a few rebrandings on this thread.

With my obvious fascination for tubes, and my not so obvious interest in European history and also problem solving, I'm enjoying all of this. I must also be a little masochistic


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> It is known that the British vacuum tube industry could not compete price wise with American manufacturers and this is one reason why the BVA purposely came up with confusing and cryptic designations so that it would be difficult to determine equivalents.


One of the "true" British tube manufacturers was GEC and their codes are easy to decipher. All the European and British manufacturers owned by Philips - not so much. My first job out of university was working for GEC Marconi on their radar defense systems programming with C and Unix.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Hope all is well with @2359glenn , COVID is very much out of control in the USA, I would advise everyone to be very precautious when it comes to family gatherings around Christmas time as small gatherings between family and friends are often how the virus is being spread.  I would either skip them entirely or take the necessary steps to protect yourself and others (masks, social distancing, etc).


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Who were owned by Philips
> 
> I can see why people hunt for the factory codes more than the stated manufacturer label/print on the tube. I have a GEC 6080 with the Mullard print/label, and I am sure there are countless other examples of other types of rebranding - even outside of the Philips "empire". We've already discussed quite a few rebrandings on this thread.
> 
> With my obvious fascination for tubes, and my not so obvious interest in European history and also problem solving, I'm enjoying all of this. I must also be a little masochistic


Speaking of cryptic codes - did anybody come up with the meaning of Sylvania three letter codes such as XYZ ( I am not making this one up) or Tung Sol date codes using letters?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Speaking of cryptic codes - did anybody come up with the meaning of Sylvania three letter codes such as XYZ ( I am not making this one up) or Tung Sol date codes using letters?



I've come across bits and pieces, but not the full codes, in printed literature (that is, on paper), but nothing online.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I've come across bits and pieces, but not the full codes, in printed literature (that is, on paper), but nothing online.


Are you able to take a couple of pictures of the printed stuff?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Are you able to take a couple of pictures of the printed stuff?



Well, these are copyrighted documents, and I don't feel comfortable posting copies here.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Well, these are copyrighted documents, and I don't feel comfortable posting copies here.


I understand.


----------



## TommyFro (Dec 15, 2020)

I've been able to get into contact with Glenn through PM here in the last few days. Working on getting my amps options sorted, said he could start working on it in about a month. Really looking forward to getting my last tube amp built.

Hopefully that helps!


----------



## maxpudding (Dec 15, 2020)

What happened to the queue? 😅🤭

Anyways, hopefully Glenn and other cool gents in this thread will be safe and healthy going into 2021.


----------



## cdanguyen08

maxpudding said:


> What happened to the queue? 😅🤭
> 
> Anyways, hopefully Glenn and other cool gents in this thread would be safe and healthy going into 2021.



Patiently waiting in this queue haha


----------



## leftside

Been playing around with the new phone camera this evening. Sure beats the old one for taking pics of tubes at night.


----------



## A2029

leftside said:


> Been playing around with the new phone camera this evening. Sure beats the old one for taking pics of tubes at night.



Beautiful! And enough tube heat to turn off the furnace to your whole home


----------



## Velozity (Dec 15, 2020)

leftside said:


> Been playing around with the new phone camera this evening. Sure beats the old one for taking pics of tubes at night.



Lol, now juxtapose this pic with one of the electric utility meter on the side of your house.


----------



## leftside

A2029 said:


> Beautiful! And enough tube heat to turn off the furnace to your whole home


Funnily enough I haven't had the need to turn the heat on in that room this winter...


----------



## leftside (Dec 15, 2020)

Velozity said:


> Lol, now juxtapose this pic with one of the electric utility meter on the side of your house.


If cannabis was still illegal in Canada, I probably would have had a knock on my door by now about the suspicion of an illegal grow op in my house.


----------



## maxpudding

leftside said:


> Been playing around with the new phone camera this evening. Sure beats the old one for taking pics of tubes at night.



That’s one hella fine room.


----------



## leftside

Thanks @maxpudding. It’s taken quite a few decades to put together.


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> Been playing around with the new phone camera this evening. Sure beats the old one for taking pics of tubes at night.



Reminds me of:


----------



## Galapac

leftside said:


> Been playing around with the new phone camera this evening. Sure beats the old one for taking pics of tubes at night.


That is super cool, or should I say HOT! Seriously how warm does it stay in there? Does it effect the utility bill much?


----------



## leftside

Galapac said:


> That is super cool, or should I say HOT! Seriously how warm does it stay in there? Does it effect the utility bill much?


It was 23 degrees in that room last night, so warm, but perfectly comfortable. Outside was 5 degrees. I’ll let our American friends do the conversion to Fahrenheit  Definitely too warm for summer. I’ll have another headphone amp built for next summer for the living room - where I have A/C


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Been playing around with the new phone camera this evening. Sure beats the old one for taking pics of tubes at night.



Epic pic! Some of my favorite glow comes from those 42EC4/PY500 damper diodes. They can look like little volcano's glowing.
This is an awesome photo. Great pic for a cell phone to say the least.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Epic pic! Some of my favorite glow comes from those 42EC4/PY500 damper diodes. They can look like little volcano's glowing.
> This is an awesome photo. Great pic for a cell phone to say the least.


I agree!  Now, I am waiting for @leftside to invite me over (after covid is behind us) to come over for a play date. Sit with him and enjoy some great music!  I will bring the Whiskey


----------



## leftside

Zachik said:


> I agree!  Now, I am waiting for @leftside to invite me over (after covid is behind us) to come over for a play date. Sit with him and enjoy some great music!  I will bring the Whiskey


Promising to bring whiskey will certainly get you an invite


----------



## chrisdrop

2x Silvertone Sylvania 6P5G + 4x Melz 6N12S

I have 2 more of the Melz in the way as one is a bit too noisy. I do like them notwithstanding.


----------



## triod750

chrisdrop said:


> 2x Silvertone Sylvania 6P5G + 4x Melz 6N12S
> 
> I have 2 more of the Melz in the way as one is a bit too noisy. I do like them notwithstanding.



Have you given the pins the heat treatment? I have one that was silent from the beginning and eventually developed some noise. The Mordy heat treatment took care of that. Completely silent ever since, just letting through wonderful tones. I like their effortless transparency that lets you immerse in(to) the music.
(In another amp and just a pair at a time).


----------



## chrisdrop

triod750 said:


> Have you given the pins the heat treatment? I have one that was silent from the beginning and eventually developed some noise. The Mordy heat treatment took care of that. Completely silent ever since, just letting through wonderful tones. I like their effortless transparency that lets you immerse in(to) the music.
> (In another amp and just a pair at a time).


Good idea. I've not done that. I've first taken the lazy mans "perhaps another 20h of use will help", but I also stopped using them for 10d or so because I had enough of their noisy tantrums. Perhaps, today, I'll do as you suggest. Tx.


----------



## chrisdrop

chrisdrop said:


> Good idea. I've not done that. I've first taken the lazy mans "perhaps another 20h of use will help", but I also stopped using them for 10d or so because I had enough of their noisy tantrums. Perhaps, today, I'll do as you suggest. Tx.


I've continued my "lazy man's approach". I left the amp on continuously for 2 days. The tubes are quiet enough for the past day or so.

I recently had my longstanding favourite outputs in; the Bendix 6080s. Somewhat controversially, I've preferred the GEC 6080s.

My other favourite outputs are the 6BX7s.

I think these Melz outputs stand with that group. I think they are a very solid output set worth finding for your GOTLs.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> I've continued my "lazy man's approach". I left the amp on continuously for 2 days. The tubes are quiet enough for the past day or so.
> 
> I recently had my longstanding favourite outputs in; the Bendix 6080s. Somewhat controversially, I've preferred the GEC 6080s.
> 
> ...


No controversy over the GEC 6080 - it is an excellent sounding tube; I even prefer it over the GEC 6AS7G/A1834.
Unfortunately the GEC 6080 is getting pricey. If you are looking for low priced alternatives the Sylvania 6080 sound very good.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> 2x Silvertone Sylvania 6P5G + 4x Melz 6N12S
> 
> I have 2 more of the Melz in the way as one is a bit too noisy. I do like them notwithstanding.


More Melz rolling - on Triod750's suggestion I brought out the 6F8G. This tube is a predecessor to the 6SN7. A good alternative to the 6F8G is the similar 6C8G which can be found inexpensively.  
The tube pictured here is a National Union - the date code is H5. Normally the NU date codes consist of two letters, but this one has a letter and numeral. Usually H means 1944 so my guess is May, 1944.




Turns out that this tube is an excellent match for the Melz tubes - really very nice and attenuating the bite of the Melz tubes for a very pleasant smooth, musical and detailed presentation.
Another winner! Chrisdrop - if you have the 6F8G tube it is well worth trying this combination.


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> No controversy over the GEC 6080 - it is an excellent sounding tube; I even prefer it over the GEC 6AS7G/A1834.
> Unfortunately the GEC 6080 is getting pricey. If you are looking for low priced alternatives the Sylvania 6080 sound very good.


Mullard 6080 are also sounding quite good specially after 30 minutes of heating and pair well with ECC32 for warm sound. For chip alternatives i like thomson-csf 6080wa a bit dryer than the english but fast, precise and detailed specially when paired with KR vt-231 (Bass lover) or small ecc88 (Opera voices).


----------



## mordy

hpamdr said:


> Mullard 6080 are also sounding quite good specially after 30 minutes of heating and pair well with ECC32 for warm sound. For chip alternatives i like thomson-csf 6080wa a bit dryer than the english but fast, precise and detailed specially when paired with KR vt-231 (Bass lover) or small ecc88 (Opera voices).


I haven't reached the stage yet where I use different tubes for different types of music - if I find something I like it has to be good for everything.
In general I found the Mullard 6080 very warm sounding, but like everything else it is the synergy between the tubes that counts. The ECC32 is beyond my budget but I have an ECC31 that is supposed to sound similar. Perhaps you have been able to compare the two?


----------



## JazzVinyl

It's cold outside y'all...

But it is quite warn inside, with the Tung Sol's keeping me nice and toasty:



-- JV --


----------



## L0rdGwyn

JazzVinyl said:


> It's cold outside y'all...
> 
> But it is quite warn inside, with the Tung Sol's keeping me nice and toasty:
> 
> ...


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


>


You cannot use those mouse ears, or your cats would go nuts!!!


----------



## gibosi

JazzVinyl said:


> It's cold outside y'all...
> 
> But it is quite warn inside, with the Tung Sol's keeping me nice and toasty:
> 
> ...



Or perhaps a pair of 6336?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Zachik said:


> You cannot use those mouse ears, or your cats would go nuts!!!



No cats here, only doggies


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Or perhaps a pair of 6336?



I only have ONE 6336 at the moment!


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Or perhaps a pair of 6336?



And speaking of that...the GOTL runs remarkably cool with 5998's!


----------



## Zachik

JazzVinyl said:


> No cats here, only doggies


@L0rdGwyn has several cats... The comment was addressed to him  (sorry if that was not clear)


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Dec 23, 2020)

Zachik said:


> You cannot use those mouse ears, or your cats would go nuts!!!



Yup, had to get rid of them, it was straight bedlam!  Cats just wouldn't leave the amplifiers alone.

No interest in other tubes though, as you can see.  Little does he know that tube is worth over 200 cans of pâté, otherwise I'm sure he would sell it on the black cat market.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Sorry more off topic stuff, but I know @2359glenn will know these tubes, VR105 cold cathode "glow" tubes, for voltage regulation.  Came across these recently, have excellent utility in regulating pentode screen voltages, and they freaking glow, how awesome is that?!  Cold cathode means no heater, another plus, they are filled with an inert gas.  I bought some to play with.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Awesome, LG!


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Or perhaps a pair of 6336?



Yeah, a pair of those threw off enough heat to keep me cozy in the winter, I would put the OTL right next to me.
They definitely get toasty.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sorry more off topic stuff, but I know @2359glenn will know these tubes, VR105 cold cathode "glow" tubes, for voltage regulation.  Came across these recently, have excellent utility in regulating pentode screen voltages, and they freaking glow, how awesome is that?!  Cold cathode means no heater, another plus, they are filled with an inert gas.  I bought some to play with.



That glow is pretty killer  ........
Great looking tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, a pair of those threw off enough heat to keep me cozy in the winter, I would put the OTL right next to me.
> They definitely get toasty.



Hello Joe...

I meant "warm sound" in the headphones, not tube heat to provide winter warmth.

Seems all took it wrong   

Are you really up, at the hour recorded for your post?

Hope all has been well, with you.

-- JV --


----------



## gibosi

Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays. 

Since many here are running single triodes, thought I would plug the #76. These were introduced by RCA in 1934, and this pair is dated July-August, 1936 (Z4).

Recently, I've been rolling through various drivers and output tubes to discover which ones match up well with the 596 rectifier. I find this rectifier to be fairly bright. It reminds me of Fivre rectifiers, but I confess I haven't directly compared them.

To date, it appears to be too bright to match up well with the 5998 or the 6N12S. I simply haven't been able find a driver that is dark enough to tame the brightness. So I've gone back to one of my favorite output tubes, the TS 6BX7. So far, the TS BG/RP 6SN7GT and the gray-glass National Union 6SN7GT sound very good with this rectifier. And these RCA's are also very good. 

And for those who are keeping track, yes, adapters in every position. lol


----------



## JazzVinyl

Wishing everyone in here...

A safe and Happy Christmas.

-- JV --


----------



## cdanguyen08

Merry Christmas from Bahrain!! Good news though. I'll be moving back stateside this upcoming new year! Looks like I won't be needing 220v on that GOTL haha


----------



## chrisdrop

Very Merry Christmas to all. May your hearts and tubes be as warm as the our fireplace today.


----------



## UntilThen

Merry Christmas to all from UntilThen !  I hope you're still as crazy about tube amps as I am.


----------



## Velozity

The best present evar, dust and flying projectile protection for my GOTL!  Shout out to my wife and shoppopdisplays.com.


----------



## triod750

Bjootifull amp!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Finally those tubes are in a museum where they belong!


----------



## triod750

Velozity said:


> The best present evar, dust and flying projectile protection for my GOTL!  Shout out to my wife and shoppopdisplays.com.



How about heat dissipation? You remove cover when in use?


----------



## JazzVinyl

triod750 said:


> How about heat dissipation? You remove cover when in use?



Would think he would have to 

 Was a thoughtful gift from his wife!  Very nice!


----------



## UntilThen

Velozity said:


> The best present evar, dust and flying projectile protection for my GOTL! Shout out to my wife and shoppopdisplays.com.



That's actually a very nice picture. The best GOTL I've ever seen.


----------



## Velozity

triod750 said:


> How about heat dissipation? You remove cover when in use?




Absolutely.  This is just to cover the tubes when not in use.


----------



## triod750

JazzVinyl said:


> Would think he would have to
> 
> Was a thoughtful gift from his wife!  Very nice!



But it might make his music even hotter!


----------



## JazzVinyl

triod750 said:


> But it might make his music even hotter!



But what if you like cool jazz?


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Joe...
> 
> I meant "warm sound" in the headphones, not tube heat to provide winter warmth.
> 
> ...



All is pretty good now, I did get the virus and was pretty bad for about six days, four days of headaches. I feel good again now but was quite run down, even a few weeks after.

Hope all is well with you.

Yes, that is the correct time on my post.  I am an early riser ever since I got this amp from Glenn, it allows me to get to hear an album before work and gets me ready for the day!


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Merry Christmas to all from UntilThen !  I hope you're still as crazy about tube amps as I am.



Same to you UT.
Something about tubes. they are sort of like the "mob"....Once you are in , "you are in" and there is no way out   




Velozity said:


> The best present evar, dust and flying projectile protection for my GOTL!  Shout out to my wife and shoppopdisplays.com.



Killer gift and looks very nice and classy too.

That will beat dusting, seems like I dust every other day!

A belated Merry Christmas to everybody.

I just rolled in this combo for some listening with the Verite Closed this morning as I got some new music for Christmas. A gift that keeps on giving.




Thanks to everybody that had a part in this combo.
@2359glenn for building the wonderful amp / @gibosi  for recommending these Mullard 6080 tubes years ago, even before I received my amp.
@rosgr63 for having such wonderful ECC 32 and many other nice Mullards that he was willing to sell. / @L0rdGwyn for doing some socket work and biasing the ECC 32...thanks beautiful work.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Same to you UT.
> Something about tubes. they are sort of like the "mob"....Once you are in , "you are in" and there is no way out



Joe, you're in Hotel California. You can check out any time you like but you can never leave.    Happy holidays mate.

@L0rdGwyn can change more than just sockets. He can turn the DV336se into a set amp and he's on the high score list for today.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> Joe, you're in Hotel California. You can check out any time you like but you can never leave.    Happy holidays mate.
> 
> @L0rdGwyn can change more than just sockets. He can turn the DV336se into a set amp and he's on the high score list for today.



That would be something LOL strap some OPT to the sides of that bad boy and go!  I am just going to mod one for funzies


----------



## UntilThen

L0rdGwyn said:


> That would be something LOL strap some OPT to the sides of that bad boy and go!  I am just going to mod one for funzies



 btw that stereo tube amp you build for yourself and you showed me, is very beautiful. You're getting the aesthetics right. I've no doubt it sounded beautiful too.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

UntilThen said:


> btw that stereo tube amp you build for yourself and you showed me, is very beautiful. You're getting the aesthetics right. I've no doubt it sounded beautiful too.



Well thank you sir - I document all of my DIY antics on the thread in my signature, have a few builds coming up that I think will be very purdy


----------



## chrisdrop

Enjoying these 1950s Fivre 6C5Gs & Melz outputs. 

I noticed that the middle (at least right, perhaps also left - not sure?) output socket is a bit staticy. I thought for weeks it was these Melz outputs. I put some 6080s into the middle row and noticed they had static too. They are _always_ dead silent. As it happens just avoiding that row, these Melz outputs are silent. I'll need to sort out why the socket is staticy, but for now - I'm happy to just avoid and listen. 

I hope you are all very well in the wild world. At least we have tubes to keep us company whilst we navigate !


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Enjoying these 1950s Fivre 6C5Gs & Melz outputs.
> 
> I noticed that the middle (at least right, perhaps also left - not sure?) output socket is a bit staticy. I thought for weeks it was these Melz outputs. I put some 6080s into the middle row and noticed they had static too. They are _always_ dead silent. As it happens just avoiding that row, these Melz outputs are silent. I'll need to sort out why the socket is staticy, but for now - I'm happy to just avoid and listen.
> 
> I hope you are all very well in the wild world. At least we have tubes to keep us company whilst we navigate !


Perhaps the socket got a little dirty inside the pin holes. I did not try this myself but I read that people use pipe cleaners or very small cosmetic brushes with a little rubbing isopropyl alcohol to clean out the socket holes.
Alternatively, perhaps one pin hole isn't tight enough and you would have to tighten it up by pushing on the sides with a thin probe.
Possibly other causes of the static as well.


----------



## GDuss

chrisdrop said:


> Enjoying these 1950s Fivre 6C5Gs & Melz outputs.
> 
> I noticed that the middle (at least right, perhaps also left - not sure?) output socket is a bit staticy. I thought for weeks it was these Melz outputs. I put some 6080s into the middle row and noticed they had static too. They are _always_ dead silent. As it happens just avoiding that row, these Melz outputs are silent. I'll need to sort out why the socket is staticy, but for now - I'm happy to just avoid and listen.
> 
> I hope you are all very well in the wild world. At least we have tubes to keep us company whilst we navigate !



I had the same static/noise problem with one of the sockets on the GOTL.  I thought it was a 6BX7 but then I switched to 5998's and it was still there, on the same side.  Like @mordy mentioned, I used some pipe cleaners with isopropyl alcohol on all the sockets.  While I was at it, I did all the adapters, then blew everything out with compressed air.  Haven't had that noise problem since then.

These are the pipe cleaners, recommended by @bcowen on another thread, bought from Amazon:


----------



## Zachik

GDuss said:


> These are the pipe cleaners, recommended by @bcowen on another thread, bought from Amazon:


Can you please share an amazon link for those?
I might as well order some for having around...


----------



## GDuss

Zachik said:


> Can you please share an amazon link for those?
> I might as well order some for having around...



Certainly:

https://www.amazon.com/BJ-Long-Stan...EZ5Y676GSE7&psc=1&refRID=MDGSGHB8QEZ5Y676GSE7

You might be able to find a smaller amount than this (it's 560 of them in this bundle) but I've already started using them to clean tube pins in addition to sockets.


----------



## Celty

GDuss said:


> I had the same static/noise problem with one of the sockets on the GOTL.  I thought it was a 6BX7 but then I switched to 5998's and it was still there, on the same side.  Like @mordy mentioned, I used some pipe cleaners with isopropyl alcohol on all the sockets.  While I was at it, I did all the adapters, then blew everything out with compressed air.  Haven't had that noise problem since then.
> 
> These are the pipe cleaners, recommended by @bcowen on another thread, bought from Amazon:


BTW, they are also great for cleaning pipes  . And like your using them to clean sockets, they come in handy for all sorts of things.


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> I haven't reached the stage yet where I use different tubes for different types of music - if I find something I like it has to be good for everything.
> In general I found the Mullard 6080 very warm sounding, but like everything else it is the synergy between the tubes that counts. The ECC32 is beyond my budget but I have an ECC31 that is supposed to sound similar. Perhaps you have been able to compare the two?


Most of the combination are good for all type of musics and are ok for mixing many kind of tracks.
In fact i use some tube combination for long (>2h) listening session when i choose a majority of track with same type or when i decide to listen complete opera. I do not switch and warm when i change track  It is just that i like warmer sound with most of my blues,jazz, pop and soul listening but prefer a more analytical listening with opera when lot of voice and large orchestra need to be reproduced with a lot of dynamics.

I only have one ECC32 and a pair of ecc31 remaining. You are completely right ECC32 and ECC31 have the same sound signature i also have fdd20 which is a cousin for my ears but i do not use it anymore due to 12V heating.


----------



## UntilThen

chrisdrop said:


> I hope you are all very well in the wild world. At least we have tubes to keep us company whilst we navigate !



Indeed tubes will keep us company in wild weather. That's what happen in Sydney yesterday. Thunder so loud I thought the sky fell. Enjoy your music. Tubes look good on GOTL.


----------



## mordy

hpamdr said:


> Most of the combination are good for all type of musics and are ok for mixing many kind of tracks.
> In fact i use some tube combination for long (>2h) listening session when i choose a majority of track with same type or when i decide to listen complete opera. I do not switch and warm when i change track  It is just that i like warmer sound with most of my blues,jazz, pop and soul listening but prefer a more analytical listening with opera when lot of voice and large orchestra need to be reproduced with a lot of dynamics.
> 
> I only have one ECC32 and a pair of ecc31 remaining. You are completely right ECC32 and ECC31 have the same sound signature i also have fdd20 which is a cousin for my ears but i do not use it anymore due to 12V heating.


The FDD20 is an Italian Philips 12V tube. From my Little Dot days I have one that was modded from side contact to octal base and wired for external power. Oddly enough, the amp I now have can use 12V tubes but since the FDD20 is wired for external power it will not work unless I set up the external power supply.
Too much trouble - I don't use it anymore. Actually, I tried it once but it did not sound that good although in the Little Dot it complemented the ECC31 well.

LOL - We just have to keep the secret that the ECC31/NR73 sounds similar to the ECC32 at a much lower price (requires an inexpensive adapter).
If you buy this lot of 5 the ECC31/NR73 will cost around $50 each:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-x-NR73-t...475513?hash=item3ff1313cb9:g:d7UAAOSwMS1fPhCk


----------



## dncnexus

Sorry if this is common knowledge, but there are too many pages to go through to figure it out. I have heard some conflicting information, is Glenn still taking orders for amps? Was curious and was interested in possibly grabbing one. 

Thanks anybody for the information!


----------



## chrisdrop

KenRad 76 via double adapter gymnastics.

The tubes themselves were inexpensive and quite nice imo.

They are airy tubes and nicely balanced with a pair of 6080s.





(Pipe cleaners en route - tx all for the tips)


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> The FDD20 is an Italian Philips 12V tube. From my Little Dot days I have one that was modded from side contact to octal base and wired for external power. Oddly enough, the amp I now have can use 12V tubes but since the FDD20 is wired for external power it will not work unless I set up the external power supply.
> Too much trouble - I don't use it anymore. Actually, I tried it once but it did not sound that good although in the Little Dot it complemented the ECC31 well.
> 
> LOL - We just have to keep the secret that the ECC31/NR73 sounds similar to the ECC32 at a much lower price (requires an inexpensive adapter).
> ...



Anybody that owns one of Glenns amps should have one of these.....maybe someone will get a group buy going....I don't need any...but for $50 each, that is a great deal on a wonderful tube.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Anybody that owns one of Glenns amps should have one of these.....maybe someone will get a group buy going....I don't need any...but for $50 each, that is a great deal on a wonderful tube.


You forgot Best Offer option lol....


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> You forgot Best Offer option lol....



True, may get them cheaper...regardless this tube sounds killer


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Anybody that owns one of Glenns amps should have one of these.....maybe someone will get a group buy going....I don't need any...but for $50 each, that is a great deal on a wonderful tube.


Personally, I think it is a $250 gamble, since the tubes are untested.
If it were 1 tube for $50 - sure. But gambling on 5 of them?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Hmmm quite tempting...some time ago, I was looking for pairs of these to run as drivers with the two triodes paralleled.  I'll probably pass, but it is intriguing!


----------



## whirlwind

I never even read the auction, lol.

If the tubes are good they are a good deal,  untested is a gamble , I agree.

 I have bought many this way however if the price was good.


----------



## gibosi

chrisdrop said:


> KenRad 76 via double adapter gymnastics.
> 
> The tubes themselves were inexpensive and quite nice imo.
> 
> ...



It's nice to see others using the 76. I sure enjoy mine.


----------



## mordy

Saw a cute line in a review about about a certain amp (paraphrased):
_"This amp is like the cream in an Oreo cookie sandwiched between DAC so and so and the HD650."_


----------



## mordy (Jan 1, 2021)

Here is the latest addition to my headphone amplifier collection:



A flea watt handmade in Japan solid state integrated amplifier with dual volume controls and dual output transformers from around 1970.


----------



## Velozity

Happy New Year Glenn-thread friends!  May your tubes glow brightly and quietly.


----------



## maxpudding

Happy new year everyone 🥳🥳


----------



## NickT23

ya, Happy New Year. But I dont have a tube amp !


----------



## chrisdrop

Happy New Year all ye tube fans (even if you are currently (_sadly_) tube-amp-free).

(Those 76s from the other day are still making me audio-happy )


----------



## mordy

Happy New Year to everybody! And may the music bring more happiness through whatever medium it comes to you! Solid state, tubes or a combination of both - the main thing is that it should bring enjoyment and happiness!


----------



## whirlwind

Happy New Year


----------



## gibosi

Yes indeed, Happy New Year!

良いお年を！


----------



## mordy

Gott nytt år!


----------



## Zachik

NickT23 said:


> ya, Happy New Year. But I dont have a tube amp !


Assuming you plan on getting one - 2021 would definitely be a better year for you! 
(not that 2020 set a high bar for anyone...)


----------



## Xcalibur255

Wishing everybody a fantastic 2021.  The bar's set pretty low now but we still have to try!


----------



## hpamdr

Bonne année 2021 à tous.
Happy new year 2021 to all and specially for the one still waiting to get a Glenn Amp..
I wish you many hours of music, tube rolling, and plenty of joy in your life.


----------



## mordy (Jan 4, 2021)

A short while ago Whirlwind mentioned that he enjoyed the sound of a pair of RCA 12J5GT and a pair of Chatham 6080WB. Always being curious to try other people's ideas, and since I have these tubes, I decided to give it a roll. Personally, I would never have thought of this combination, but if Whirlwind says that he enjoys it, it is certainly well worth giving it a try:




For a long time I was using 7-8 tubes in the GOTL so it looks a little empty but the amp is so versatile that just a couple of tubes brings out beautiful sound.
The RCA 12J5 tubes have the date code JBR which I cannot find anywhere. Can't remember how I arrived at a guess of February 1949 but that's what I wrote down. (If you count the alphabet on your fingers and skip I [because it could be confused with 1], the ninth digit is J. B stands for Brrr like in February.) The R? Don't know - factory code? The Chatham tubes are from March 1960.
Listening impressions to follow - so far it sounds very promising. Preliminary impression is a full-bodied, sweet, airy and lyrical presentation.



JBR - JB Rare
PS: Just found a printed reference that RCA used J for the year 1949 (page 2):
https://pdf4pro.com/view/date-codes-for-rca-made-tubes-ludwell-sibley-33daa.html


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> A short while ago Whirlwind mentioned that he enjoyed the sound of a pair of RCA 12J5GT and a pair of Chatham 6080WB. Always being curious to try other people's ideas, and since I have these tubes, I decided to give it a roll. Personally, I would never have thought of this combination, but if Whirlwind says that he enjoys it, it is certainly well worth giving it a try:
> 
> For a long time I was using 7-8 tubes in the GOTL so it looks a little empty but the amp is so versatile that just a couple of tubes brings out beautiful sound.
> The RCA 12J5 tubes have the date code JBR which I cannot find anywhere. Can't remember how I arrived at a guess of February 1949 but that's what I wrote down. (If you count the alphabet on your fingers and skip I [because it could be confused with 1], the ninth digit is J. B stands for Brrr like in February.) The R? Don't know - factory code? The Chatham tubes are from March 1960.
> ...



Not me, I don't own any Chatham 6080 tubes


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Not me, I don't own any Chatham 6080 tubes


Not relevant if you own Chatham 6080s or not - just take the credit


----------



## Zachik

Anyone ever used 6A6 tubes in their GOTL?
According to Radio Museum website, "The 6A6 is electrically identical with type 6N7" (but different pinout). 6A6 is in my compatibility list and requires 6SN7 to 6A6 adapter...
I am curious if they sound any good - they seem to be cheap and not in high demand (which keeps the price low, I guess).


----------



## gibosi

I have a bunch. 

The later ones are identical to the 6N7G. That is, the maker simply swapped out a 7-pin base for an 8-pin octal base. The older ones often have slightly different construction, but still sound essentially the same. So if you like a certain 6N7G, it is likely you will like the older 6A6.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> The later ones are identical to the 6N7G. That is, the maker simply swapped out a 7-pin base for an 8-pin octal base. The older ones often have slightly different construction, but still sound essentially the same. So if you like a certain 6N7G, it is likely you will like the older 6A6.


I DO like the 6N7G sound, and seems like 6A6 are cheaper.  However, since I already got a bunch of 6N7G - I guess no point in buying another adapter (for 6A6) and more tubes that sound the same... 
Thanks @gibosi


----------



## Xcalibur255

The Chatham 6080WBs are interesting tubes that can be difficult to find the right driver pairing for.  They have a pronounced impression of warmth in certain areas of the midrange that results in a very pleasant and mellow sound with the right partner and a very wonky and unbalanced sound with the wrong partner.  Given the reputation of 6080s in general as being worse than 6AS7Gs they can be had cheaply too and are worth grabbing if you have a decent variety of drivers with which to test with to find a nice combo.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> The Chatham 6080WBs are interesting tubes that can be difficult to find the right driver pairing for.  They have a pronounced impression of warmth in certain areas of the midrange that results in a very pleasant and mellow sound with the right partner and a very wonky and unbalanced sound with the wrong partner.  Given the reputation of 6080s in general as being worse than 6AS7Gs they can be had cheaply too and are worth grabbing if you have a decent variety of drivers with which to test with to find a nice combo.


Spot on re the bad pairings with the Chatham 6080WB! Until now I never liked them and found them harsh and to hard hitting on the bass, but with the RCA12J5 they really have a very pleasant and mellow sound.
Likewise, with the RCA 12J5, I just found them meh until now - go figure.....
This reinforces my belief not to disregard or sell any tube - you never know when it is going to shine with great synergy in the right combination.
About five years ago I paid $10 for the Chatham pair with shipping; the RCA cost $13 around a year ago. OK - you need a $25 adapter for the RCAs, but then you have great sound for very little.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> The RCA 12J5 tubes have the date code JBR which I cannot find anywhere.



To my knowledge, RCA never used a three-letter date code and this is likely why you cant' find it anywhere.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> To my knowledge, RCA never used a three-letter date code and this is likely why you cant' find it anywhere.


Your Honor: Permit me to present Exhibit A:



Except for what you see and 12J5GT there are no other markings on the tube.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Your Honor: Permit me to present Exhibit A:
> 
> Except for what you see and 12J5GT there are no other markings on the tube.



I didn't doubt that JBR or J8R was what was printed. But again, RCA's date codes are very well documented, and these three digits do not fit any of the patterns. And thus, I have no idea what the meaning of those three digits might be.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jan 7, 2021)

The Glenn amp scene with Glenn unseen is not keen on getting one 'amped'. I'm worried about him, not just for my amp but for him. No activity on his profile since November 23rd and I heard back from him two days later but not since. I'm becoming genuinely concerned about Glenn and maybe someone should file a missing persons report in case something happened during these crazy times.


----------



## maxpudding (Jan 7, 2021)

I sincerely hope Glenn is safe and sound, and he is just too busy with his work life.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> In my opinion, the Mullard GZ37 is not as good as the Cossor. However, I think the GZ32 is as good. In fact I think the GZ32 is the best of the Mullard 5-volt rectifiers, better than the GZ33, GZ34 and GZ37. The major difference is that the Mullard GZ32 is a bit sweeter than the Cossor.



Such an old post but I'm getting 2 x Mullard GZ32 to supplement my Cossor 53ku for the WA22. Looking forward to it !


----------



## gibosi

It's pretty quiet here, so I thought I would talk about another tube that I think no one else is rolling. lol 

Below is an EL41. As some might remember, I have been rolling EL41 for some time now. The EL41 is a miniaturized version of the EL3 / EL11, but slightly less powerful.

Recently I came across some EL41 manufactured in Barcelona, Spain. And interestingly, this is the first time I have ever seen Philips production made in Spain. Being very curious I grabbed them. 

The Philips production code is SY M43 which indicates they were manufactured in 1949.

And from the Philips Valve Code page, 

S = Lampara "Z", Barcelona

And searching for Lampara "Z", Barcelona, I found this Wikipedia article:

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lámparas_Z

All in Spanish! And while I studied Spanish in high school, I have forgotten nearly everything. lol 

However, as best as I can make out, it would appear that Lampara Z is the Sociedad Española de Lámparas Eléctricas Z (SESEZ). It had a very close relationship with Philips starting in the 1920's, but it is not clear to me if SESEZ was a totally owned subsidiary, or just an affiliate. Anyway, they were located in Barcelona and in addition to lighting products they also manufactured the EL41.

And while it carries the Marconi brand, the tooling indicates that they were definitely manufactured on a Philips assemblyline. I hope to clean the pins and roll them in soon.


----------



## UntilThen

Very interesting Gib and while I haven't post here for a while, your talk of the EL41 spark my interest in another tube - the EL95 as used in the Auris Euterpe. This is one sweet sounding dac/amp whether using it's own dac or the Chord Qutest. It's not cheap though. Auris amps aren't cheap. 

Euterpe is very clear, tight, punchy and fast transients with Audeze LCD-4 and has power to drive it no problem.

Do you know anything about EL95 @gibosi  ? This is the first time I've heard of it - in both sense of the word.  

It's also a headphone stand !


From the top


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


>



It looks quite a bit like an EL84.  Since you mentioned it's downrated compared to the EL11 I wonder how closely it comes to being an EL84 electrically.....


----------



## leftside

I think these Marconi/Spain 6F6G can be used in the EL3N amp:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6F6G-TUBE-...UCTION-HIFI-TUBES-NOS-NIB-RCP290/143645630031

I like them a lot in my gear.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Very interesting Gib and while I haven't post here for a while, your talk of the EL41 spark my interest in another tube - the EL95 as used in the Auris Euterpe. This is one sweet sounding dac/amp whether using it's own dac or the Chord Qutest. It's not cheap though. Auris amps aren't cheap.
> 
> Euterpe is very clear, tight, punchy and fast transients with Audeze LCD-4 and has power to drive it no problem.
> 
> ...



While I have no experience with the EL95, I do have experience with the EL42, a predecessor:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el42.html

And I like the EL42 very much. It's very quiet and Blackburn Mullard and Sittard Philips are among my favorites. And fortunately for me, the EL41 and EL42 use the same adapter. That said, can't say for sure how the later EL95 compares.


----------



## gibosi (Jan 8, 2021)

Xcalibur255 said:


> It looks quite a bit like an EL84.  Since you mentioned it's downrated compared to the EL11 I wonder how closely it comes to being an EL84 electrically.....



Interestingly, the EL41 is listed as a predecessor to the EL84:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el84.html

"The very successful EL84 is the last development step from EL3 via EL41 to the final point of radio output pentodes...."

But while I have no experience with the EL84, I do like the EL41, Blackburn and Sittard especially. And in terms of looks, these very early Sittard EL41 are pretty neat:


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> While I have no experience with the EL95, I do have experience with the EL42, a predecessor:
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el42.html
> 
> And I like the EL42 very much. It's very quiet and Blackburn Mullard and Sittard Philips are among my favorites. And fortunately for me, the EL41 and EL42 use the same adapter. That said, can't say for sure how the later EL95 compares.



Thanks. EL42 predecessor are EL8, EL13.... both of which I've tried in GOTL. I see the connections now... historically and in tone. Now wonder the Euterpe sound refreshing, energetic and vibrant to my ears.

Also thanks to your post on the GZ32 rectifiers which I quoted above. I had GEC U52 but sold it off together with all my GEC 6as7g. Thought I was leaving tubes lol. Now I'm left with the beautiful sounding Cossor 53ku for my WA22 amp. I'm going to pick up these pair of Mullard GZ32 (less than 50 hours - from a friend so I believe him) for AUD $160 which I think is very cheap. No?   

Now tell me if these are the real Mullard GZ32.


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> I think these Marconi/Spain 6F6G can be used in the EL3N amp:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6F6G-TUBE-...UCTION-HIFI-TUBES-NOS-NIB-RCP290/143645630031
> 
> I like them a lot in my gear.


Been eyeing those for my 6EL3N amp for a while now...


----------



## leftside

Zachik said:


> Been eyeing those for my 6EL3N amp for a while now...


Don't hesitate. Great tubes from a great seller. Compare to the price from the Italian sellers...


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> In my opinion, the Mullard GZ37 is not as good as the Cossor. However, I think the GZ32 is as good. In fact I think the GZ32 is the best of the Mullard 5-volt rectifiers, better than the GZ33, GZ34 and GZ37. The major difference is that the Mullard GZ32 is a bit sweeter than the Cossor.



I'm back to report my findings of the Mullard GZ32 against the Cossor 53ku that I have. I bought 2 GZ32 and you're absolutely right about the GZ32. It does sound sweeter than the Cossor although the latter has warmth which the GZ32 has too. Turns out $160 for 2 nearly NOS GZ32 is a steal.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I'm back to report my findings of the Mullard GZ32 against the Cossor 53ku that I have. I bought 2 GZ32 and you're absolutely right about the GZ32. It does sound sweeter than the Cossor although the latter has warmth which the GZ32 has too. Turns out $160 for 2 nearly NOS GZ32 is a steal.



These may be the best rectifiers that hardly no one talks about...which is great as it keeps the price down    




leftside said:


> I think these Marconi/Spain 6F6G can be used in the EL3N amp:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6F6G-TUBE-...UCTION-HIFI-TUBES-NOS-NIB-RCP290/143645630031
> 
> I like them a lot in my gear.



Priced very nice too.


----------



## triod750

gibosi said:


> Interestingly, the EL41 is listed as a predecessor to the EL84:
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el84.html
> 
> ...



EL84 is a wonderful tube. It delivers the music clean in the right application. Not cold or bright but clean.


----------



## gibosi

Rolled in the Spanish Lampara "Z" EL41s and they sound good!. But of course, those of us with Glenn amps know that almost everything sounds good. 

A 596 rectifier, a pair of Chatham / Tung-Sol 6528 (similar to the 6336 but with a mu of 9) and a pair of Lampara "Z" EL41.


----------



## UntilThen (Jan 9, 2021)

I miss the tube rolling days. I don't do much of that now. It's amps rolling instead and headphones. 

and I did miss the Cetron 6336 tubes. It's awful I released so many tubes with the sale of GOTL and Studio Six. That's when I slid off tubes by almost 50% but I still have Wa22 and LF339 and who knows what else later.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> It's pretty quiet here, so I thought I would talk about another tube that I think no one else is rolling. lol
> 
> Below is an EL41. As some might remember, I have been rolling EL41 for some time now. The EL41 is a miniaturized version of the EL3 / EL11, but slightly less powerful.
> 
> ...


I have had good luck with Google Translate in translating foreign writings or even communicating with foreign sellers.
Copy/paste and you have a translation (sometimes hilarious).


----------



## mordy

Rolling along - sometimes I feel that I am putting together a recipe: a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and a dose of this or that. But you cannot really predict how it is going to taste musically until you listen.
Here is a sweet recipe with beautiful mid range and airy presentation.
2 x GEC Z63. What is a Z63? It is a 6J7G equivalent. Why bother with this tube? Because the 6C5 triode is based on the 6J7G. Here is an interesting article about the 6J7:
https://nzvrshome.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/the-6j7-fraternity.pdf
Page 2 picture 2 has a line that states: "The 6C5 triode was actually a 6J7 without the suppressor grid and with the screen grid tied internally to the plate."
The GEC triode L63 is a 6J5 equivalent. The predecessor to the 6J5 is the 6C5. I figured that I could use the triode strapped GEC Z63 (6J7G) as an alternative to the GEC L63. Thanks to tintinsnowydog in Australia I was able to get a pair.
The other tubes are a pair of Chatham 6080 and a pair of Melz 6N12S. The GECs are from the early 50's, the Chatham and Melz from the early 60's.
So there we are: A pair of British tubes from Australia, a pair of American tubes from some housewife who thought I was "brave" for buying an untested pair she found, and a pair of Russian tubes from Slovakia. And of course, a pair of new adapters from Deyan in Bulgaria with a novel anode cap with a little set screw.




Have fun!


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> I have had good luck with Google Translate in translating foreign writings or even





gibosi said:


> It's pretty quiet here, so I thought I would talk about another tube that I think no one else is rolling. lol
> 
> Below is an EL41. As some might remember, I have been rolling EL41 for some time now. The EL41 is a miniaturized version of the EL3 / EL11, but slightly less powerful.
> 
> ...


How does the EL41 compare to the EL8? Are they similar?


----------



## maxpudding

Audio Chef @mordy


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Rolling along - sometimes I feel that I am putting together a recipe: a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and a dose of this or that. But you cannot really predict how it is going to taste musically until you listen.
> Here is a sweet recipe with beautiful mid range and airy presentation.
> 2 x GEC Z63. What is a Z63? It is a 6J7G equivalent. Why bother with this tube? Because the 6C5 triode is based on the 6J7G. Here is an interesting article about the 6J7:
> https://nzvrshome.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/the-6j7-fraternity.pdf
> ...


Mixing output tube types... I'm not sure if I've seen that one...


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Mixing output tube types... I'm not sure if I've seen that one...


As far as I know it is safe as long as you don’t exceed the current capacity of the transformer. There is one thing that I never got clarification on - what is the combined multiplication factor of the tubes? The 6080 is around 2 and the 6N12S is around 16.
Is it somewhere in between these numbers? Or does it take on the larger number?
The amp does play louder with the four tubes than just the 6080.


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 10, 2021)

I miss seeing Glenn's new builds on this thread. Hope all is getting a little better for you Glenn. I am still much enjoying your work  

I am listening to some Bachman Turner Overdrive Japan remasters this morning on GEL3N & LCD-4


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> How does the EL41 compare to the EL8? Are they similar?



Don't know....  My EL8 were manufactured by Valvo in their Hamburg factory. And while Hamburg did make the EL41 and EL42, I'm not much of a fan of the Hamburg sound, and don't have any to compare.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Don't know....  My EL8 were manufactured by Valvo in their Hamburg factory. And while Hamburg did make the EL41 and EL42, I'm not much of a fan of the Hamburg sound, and don't have any to compare.


Agree - the EL8 tubes I have all have that "Hamburg" sound. I just meant a general comparison since the EL8 is a smaller and less powerful version of the EL3N. But now I see that the EL41 and EL42 are very different - 0.7A vs 0.2A. The EL3N is 0.9A and the EL8 0.5A.


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> Agree - the EL8 tubes I have all have that "Hamburg" sound. I just meant a general comparison since the EL8 is a smaller and less powerful version of the EL3N. But now I see that the EL41 and EL42 are very different - 0.7A vs 0.2A. The EL3N is 0.9A and the EL8 0.5A.


 A predecessor of EL42 is the EL32 (really close to EL42 spec.) on which you can have French, UK, American flavors... You can even reuse to 6j7 adapter to strap it as  triode   Too me EL32/EL2 are great driver only when paired with a "powerful" output tubes and/or sensitive headphone.

By spec, EL41 EL84 EL11 and EL3N are closer each other than to EL42 EL32 EL2.


----------



## chrisdrop

hpamdr said:


> A predecessor of EL42 is the EL32 (really close to EL42 spec.) on which you can have French, UK, American flavors... You can even reuse to 6j7 adapter to strap it as  triode   Too me EL32/EL2 are great driver only when paired with a "powerful" output tubes and/or sensitive headphone.
> 
> By spec, EL41 EL84 EL11 and EL3N are closer each other than to EL42 EL32 EL2.


I've only had success w/ EL32s by "dual driver" use (i.e. as a 2nd pair of inputs). I think there are several users who ~1y ago were using EL32s as dual-drivers pretty regularly.


----------



## mordy

hpamdr said:


> A predecessor of EL42 is the EL32 (really close to EL42 spec.) on which you can have French, UK, American flavors... You can even reuse to 6j7 adapter to strap it as  triode   Too me EL32/EL2 are great driver only when paired with a "powerful" output tubes and/or sensitive headphone.
> 
> By spec, EL41 EL84 EL11 and EL3N are closer each other than to EL42 EL32 EL2.


Thanks - I have the EL32 Mullard (which got me interested in the 6J7 family). Always felt that it was “underpowered “ - which type of output  would bring it to life? 6336?
The EL32 is 0.2 amps and although theoretically any driver should be good my experience has been that when using the C3g sockets in the GOTL I need 0.3A tubes or more to get good results.


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> Thanks - I have the EL32 Mullard (which got me interested in the 6J7 family). Always felt that it was “underpowered “ - which type of output  would bring it to life? 6336?
> The EL32 is 0.2 amps and although theoretically any driver should be good my experience has been that when using the C3g sockets in the GOTL I need 0.3A tubes or more to get good results.


  (_I have French RT EL32 not Mullard_ on Euforia, still waiting for a Glenn amp.................) 
This is why i pointed that you need "powerful" output section and/or sensitive headphone. On the Euforia with HD800 or T1 I only need single EL12N or EL39 by side as output tube. With 6080 this is more comfortable even with HD600 and K701. But i cannot use TH500-RP.  To have more power and "air"  single 6336, dual 6080 or 3 6BL7 by side on GOTL depending of your HP could bring it to life..
I do not listen up to to outrageous volume, usually the pot. stay from first quarter to middle depending of the output section and headphone.. The Dac i mainly use is Soekris 1541 set to 100%.


----------



## leftside

EL11, EL12 and EL39 tubes are great tubes. A lot of Lampizator DAC owners have also been enjoying the EL51 (including myself). This tube was unknown to me until recently. The tube is even bigger than a 300B and requires an adapter for most amps. Tesla variety seem quite common. @Monsterzero is a big fan and encouraged me to get some.

I've also been trying out other related tubes in the ELxx family that are amazing. More to report later....


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> @Monsterzero is a big fan and encouraged me to get some


Warning:
@Monsterzero is the type of person you mom warned you about... All his friends are (tube rolling) addicts and in debt!


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> EL11, EL12 and EL39 tubes are great tubes. A lot of Lampizator DAC owners have also been enjoying the EL51 (including myself). This tube was unknown to me until recently. The tube is even bigger than a 300B and requires an adapter for most amps. Tesla variety seem quite common. @Monsterzero is a big fan and encouraged me to get some.
> 
> I've also been trying out other related tubes in the ELxx family that are amazing. More to report later....


The EL51 has an anode cap and side contact base -1.9A.
How does it compare to the Telefunken EL6 Spez and EL12 Spez? Also have anode caps but German Steel base and 1.2A.


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Warning:
> @Monsterzero is the type of person you mom warned you about... All his friends are (tube rolling) addicts and in debt!


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> The EL51 has an anode cap and side contact base -1.9A.
> How does it compare to the Telefunken EL6 Spez and EL12 Spez? Also have anode caps but German Steel base and 1.2A.


Don't think I've tried the EL6 before. EL51 is more powerful than EL12. The Tesla is livelier with more of a punch in my system. I'm not saying it's better than the EL12. The Valvo, RFT and Philips EL12 I have are warmer. They get a mention here: (copy link to Google chrome and it will translate to English)
http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/EL34-Story/EL34-Story.htm

Even though I have quite a few different 6L6, I personally prefer the ELxx family of tubes. EL33, 6M6G, etc are all very similar:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el33.html


----------



## mordy

Decided to dust off a pair Chatham 6AS7G that I have sitting around. Originally I had three, but one plunged to it's death during a photoshoot on my desk. Crummy feeling of loosing a tube to carelessness - I assume that it has happened to others as well. - Now I take the tube pictures with the tubes on the floor...
Here are the surviving plump and tall twins from November 1958:



They look similar to the RCA 6AS7G but by comparing them to a 1957 RCA they definitively are different. As far as I know only RCA and Tung Sol/Chatham made the ST shaped 6AS7 in the US. You can also find this tube made by Svetlana (Russia), Shuguang (China) and from Japan. 
Compared to the Chatham 6080 they sound softer and not as hard hitting. Nice pairing with GEC Z63 (6J7G). The GEC pair consists of an Osram and a Marconi made at different times (1950/1953 and one taller than the other); they have different internals but sound the same.



In the back of the amp is a 4" USB powered fan. It has rubber feet but when I put it down on the chassis of the amp I got a little noise. Fabricated an advanced fan suspension system (a length of wire wrapped around a piece of the equipment rack and then hung the fan from the wire using a couple of rubber bands) - silence.
Before I took the above picture I had to remove the fan shroud I use to direct the air. It is basically a legal size envelope held in place by three N52 neodymium 12x2mm magnets. Why not N35 or N42? (If you want to know it is easy to find out...). Did you know that neodymium magnets were first commercially used in 1984? I think that they are important in headphones, but I digress....



So now you know the secrets of how to keep the amp cool. Maybe I should switch to a see through cover for the visual effect? 
Have fun!


----------



## Zachik

@mordy - LOVE the blue tube!!!!


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> @mordy - LOVE the blue tube!!!!


That little blue guy is protesting against $200 tubes!
And smiling at the sound of the above tubes that now are waking up from a 60-70 year sleep - they really came to life now after a couple of hours of percolating!


----------



## Velozity

mordy said:


> That little blue guy is protesting against $200 tubes!
> And smiling at the sound of the above tubes that now are waking up from a 60-70 year sleep - they really came to life now after a couple of hours of percolating!




LOVE the Chatham 6AS7G.  I still have 8 of them even after selling 4.  Due to their smooth neutral character they work great with pretty much every driver.  The perfect power tube IMO.  If I want more slam and impact I would roll TS 5998 or 7236.  If I want more euphony and authority across the spectrum I would roll Bendix 6080WB.  But if I just want to "set it and forget it" and focus on rolling drivers, the Chatham is top choice.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The Chatham 6AS7G also wins bonus points for being more reliable than their RCA counterpart.  Every RCA and Sylvania 6AS7 I've ever had has been unacceptably noisy.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> The Chatham 6AS7G also wins bonus points for being more reliable than their RCA counterpart.  Every RCA and Sylvania 6AS7 I've ever had has been unacceptably noisy.


As far as I know, the Sylvania 6AS7G are also made by RCA; the same for GE.


----------



## Zachik

Velozity said:


> LOVE the Chatham 6AS7G. I still have 8 of them even after selling 4.


PM me if you decide to sell a pair...


----------



## whirlwind

Velozity said:


> LOVE the Chatham 6AS7G.  I still have 8 of them even after selling 4.  Due to their smooth neutral character they work great with pretty much every driver.  The perfect power tube IMO.  If I want more slam and impact I would roll TS 5998 or 7236.  If I want more euphony and authority across the spectrum I would roll Bendix 6080WB.  But if I just want to "set it and forget it" and focus on rolling drivers, the Chatham is top choice.



Yep, these are nice tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> As far as I know, the Sylvania 6AS7G are also made by RCA; the same for GE.


All of the legitimate Sylvania tubes are RCA re-brands, but there are also the Svetlana tubes that are labeled Sylvania which doesn't seem worth the effort to me but then again I'm not a counterfeiter so I don't know their thought process.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> All of the legitimate Sylvania tubes are RCA re-brands, but there are also the Svetlana tubes that are labeled Sylvania which doesn't seem worth the effort to me but then again I'm not a counterfeiter so I don't know their thought process.


This pair is not counterfeit - only a Svetlana originally sold by a British rebrander:



Can you see the dual inverted saucer getters?
How much should this $30 pair cost?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-TUBE...142499&hash=item3b2f3cb70e:g:ZTEAAOSwdSRZ-5XN
Can be yours for $500...
Just to illustrate the thought processes of the scammers. Hey - you COULD perhaps find Haltron branded curved base GEC A1834/6AS7G tubes worth $500/pair but haven't seen any for a long time.


----------



## Galapac (Jan 14, 2021)

mordy said:


> This pair is not counterfeit - only a Svetlana originally sold by a British rebrander:
> 
> Can you see the dual inverted saucer getters?
> How much should this $30 pair cost?
> ...


The description on that pair is even more priceless...screams SCAM!! Got every buzzword in the book in that post.


----------



## mordy

Galapac said:


> The description on that pair is even more priceless...screams SCAM!! Got every buzzword in the book in that post.


Did not bother to read the description but now I did. Perhaps the seller was a little drunk?:
Manufacturer: Marconi, Great Britain
Then it says:  Telefunken Western Germany
In fact, it was made by Svetlana, St. Petersburg, Russia.
Here We Ge again.....
Cannot understand how these guys get 100% feedback.


----------



## hpamdr

We even have a GE sold as a GEC because it is in a GEC box. In description you can see GE bran anyway...





REF: https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-6080-NOS/184509507097?hash=item2af59fa619:g:-fgAAOSwH3FfmYIH


----------



## mordy

hpamdr said:


> We even have a GE sold as a GEC because it is in a GEC box. In description you can see GE bran anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is an outright misrepresentation. The sad thing is that one person already bought a $10-15 tube for $120.
I see these things all the time.
The question is if we can stop these scammers from misrepresenting tubes?


----------



## Zachik

Oh. GEC does not stand for "GE Corporation"??


----------



## Galapac

mordy said:


> This is an outright misrepresentation. The sad thing is that one person already bought a $10-15 tube for $120.
> I see these things all the time.
> The question is if we can stop these scammers from misrepresenting tubes?


You can report them but it’s like whack a mole. The best defense is to educate yourself before one dives in.


----------



## OctavianH

Let's hope that seller is a decent one and that was a confusion/mistake. I have on order a pair of EL38 from him and the price was decent (35 EUR / piece).


----------



## hpamdr

OctavianH said:


> Let's hope that seller is a decent one and that was a confusion/mistake. I have on order a pair of EL38 from him and the price was decent (35 EUR / piece).


 I already got a tube set from this seller in the past (not by ebay) all was OK. The seller have a shop near Paris and a website  he is more an antique dealer than a tube specialist. He usually sell used component at _market_ price. You should have a 2weeks return policy, a VAT number, an address and a phone number if it can secure you.
For expensive tube _when i want to pay the price_, i prefer to use my network or specialized dealer like Langrex in G.B.


----------



## OctavianH

hpamdr said:


> I already got a tube set from this seller in the past (not by ebay) all was OK. The seller have a shop near Paris and a website  he is more an antique dealer than a tube specialist. He usually sell used component at _market_ price. You should have a 2weeks return policy, a VAT number, an address and a phone number if it can secure you.
> For expensive tube _when i want to pay the price_, i prefer to use my network or specialized dealer like Langrex in G.B.



Thanks. I paid with Paypal, so I guess that will help also. From the pictures all looked fine for me. So I expect he lacks knowledge instead of being a scalper.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I miss seeing Glenn's new builds on this thread. Hope all is getting a little better for you Glenn. I am still much enjoying your work



Fully agree. Hope you're well Glenn because you still have to build Berlin for me.   Take care.


----------



## mordy

Rolling along into the unknown - using tubes that I can't find others using. 
Ignorance is bliss. Was looking for a 6J7G equivalent and found the GEC KTZ63, but I did not realize that there are two versions of this tube; one is a pentode akin to the 6J7G and the other one is a kinkless (screen-grid) tetrode, whatever that means. The one I got was the tetrode non-6J7G one.....
In any case, I confirmed via Deyan that this tube could be used in triode mode in the GOTL.
Started out with a pair but one stopped functioning - enter another GEC unknown: the KTW61M which is a metallized version of the KTZ61 pentode which can also be used in triode mode.
Both tubes have the Marconi visual appeal - a beautiful purple decal and the silvery metallized finish on the other tube. In one spot you can see a ground wire attached to the outside of the tube and the metallic coating.



Backed up by a pair of Chatham 6AS7G this duo sounds very nice with that soft lyrical GEC beautiful midrange sound - can't really hear much difference between the two. But gotta give these tubes more time to burn in - the silver one will celebrate it's 75th birthday in July.
It appears to me that the 6J7G variants strapped as triodes offers many opportunities to explore.
Ever heard of a 6U7G? Will it work? If so, they are very inexpensive, beautiful and plentiful.....


----------



## Galapac

There is a 6W7G tube in this family as well.


----------



## mordy

Galapac said:


> There is a 6W7G tube in this family as well.


The 6W7G is only 0.15A whereas all the others I used are 0.3A. Supposedly the current draw is not supposed to affect the sound (maybe needs higher volume) but my experience has been that driver tubes with a current draw of 0.3A and up work better for me.
There are dozens of 6J7 variants from both sides of the ocean.....


----------



## DecentLevi (Jan 19, 2021)

The 6J7G class look very similar to the EL32 / CV1052 that myself and others on the Feliks Audio threads were fond of. A very lifelike and somewhat 'sweet' sound with smooth treble and great extension on both ends, but a few of us noticed the dynamics leave a little to be desired. I speculate it may have something to do with its' extremely low current draw of 0.2Ah. I think Mordy may be right about low current tubes - just think of the humongous dynamics of the likes of 6N7 / VT-96 with their 0.8Ah or 6080/6AS7 with 2.5ah. Those also get significantly hotter vs. these that are cool as a cucumber. 

But current draw/heat isn't the only factor in performance of course.


----------



## mordy (Jan 21, 2021)

Fellow headfier Velozity is selling two lots of four GEC 6080 at a reasonable price:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOOK-GEC-6...651232?hash=item46bf3549a0:g:MrAAAOSwdgFgCOxl

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOOK-GEC-6080-CV2984-Dual-Triode-Vacuum-Tube-DD-Getter-1966-KB-Z-Tube-1/303855650357?hash=item46bf354635:g:MrAAAOSwdgFgCOx
To me the ads are a little confusing but it seems that eight individual tubes are offered for sale at $125/best offer each.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Fellow headfier Velozity is selling two lots of four GEC 6080 at a very reasonable price:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOOK-GEC-6...651232?hash=item46bf3549a0:g:MrAAAOSwdgFgCOxl
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOOK-GEC-6...650357?hash=item46bf354635:g:MrAAAOSwdgFgCOxl


He's selling 2 tubes. Not 2 quads...


----------



## whirlwind

He sure is....if he was just selling pairs I may have gone for a pair


----------



## GDuss

Zachik said:


> He's selling 2 tubes. Not 2 quads...



He has 4 tubes available I think, they are also here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-sale-various-premium-vacuum-tubes-cossor-gec-brimar.947376/


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 21, 2021)

GDuss said:


> He has 4 tubes available I think, they are also here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-sale-various-premium-vacuum-tubes-cossor-gec-brimar.947376/



I read e-bay add wrong  ......it is still a good deal


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> He sure is....if he was just selling pairs I may have gone for a pair


The ad got me a little confused - now it looks to me that he is selling a total of eight tubes divided in two lots of four for $125 each tube/or best offer?
Each listing states four available so it looks like he would sell pairs.


----------



## Zachik

I bought 1 pair from @Velozity earlier this morning. So if anything is left - it would be 1 pair at the most...


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> I bought 1 pair from @Velozity earlier this morning. So if anything is left - it would be 1 pair at the most...


Enjoy the tubes! - the GEC 6080 is right up at the top with a select few.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Enjoy the tubes! - the GEC 6080 is right up at the top with a select few.


Now you make me feel bad for not picking both pairs...


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Now you make me feel bad for not picking both pairs...


Don’t feel bad - if you are patient you will always find more if you need them. 
Try them out and see how you like them!


----------



## Velozity

LOL guys, sorry if I confused you.  I guess I was lazy.  I listed the tubes individually but used the same pictures for all four listings since the pics showed all four tubes.  The titles state which tube the listing is for and the body of the listing shows the test results.  Like Zachi said, I sold him two this morning and pulled  two listings from eBay.  I still have two tubes left and they're still a matching pair as they test within 5% of each other and have the same construction and appearance.  They're just from different years (1966, 1964).  They are the 109/107 tube and 104/104 tube.  These came from Martin Billington originally.


----------



## Zachik

I have never tried a 6080 quad in my GOTL...  Any opinions on how it compares to a pair of 6080 tubes specifically in the GOTL?
I am still very tempted to pay extra to @Velozity for the 2nd pair... 
(*Mike - do not ship my pair just yet*...  )


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> I have never tried a 6080 quad in my GOTL...  Any opinions on how it compares to a pair of 6080 tubes specifically in the GOTL?
> I am still very tempted to pay extra to @Velozity for the 2nd pair...
> (*Mike - do not ship my pair just yet*...  )


Many times one pair of 6080 will be enough- it all depends on the synergy with the driver tubes. Adding a second pair may give you more power and punch; again, it also depends on the headphones you are using. I think that the conventional thinking is that low impedance and hard to drive headphones may benefit from a quad of 6080s.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> The ad got me a little confused - now it looks to me that he is selling a total of eight tubes divided in two lots of four for $125 each tube/or best offer?
> Each listing states four available so it looks like he would sell pairs.





Zachik said:


> I have never tried a 6080 quad in my GOTL...  Any opinions on how it compares to a pair of 6080 tubes specifically in the GOTL?
> I am still very tempted to pay extra to @Velozity for the 2nd pair...
> (*Mike - do not ship my pair just yet*...  )



Get them...because you can


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Get them...because you can


Too many tubes (and other  crap junk  toys). No storage space left 10 tubes ago...  
"Fun" living in a 2 bedroom apartment...


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Too many tubes (and other  crap junk  toys). No storage space left 10 tubes ago...
> "Fun" living in a 2 bedroom apartment...



Ha. Yeah I get it...at a point you say, man I can't listen to all of the tubes now!


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Ha. Yeah I get it...at a point you say, man I can't listen to all of the tubes now!


Haha. I think that point was 25-26 tubes ago... 
I have enough tubes to last the lifetimes of my 14 year old son, his future kids and their kids and grandkids. But hey - if I become the first person to live to 325 years of age, I will have enough tubes to enjoy daily music


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Haha. I think that point was 25-26 tubes ago...
> I have enough tubes to last the lifetimes of my 14 year old son, his future kids and their kids and grandkids. But hey - if I become the first person to live to 325 years of age, I will have enough tubes to enjoy daily music


Then you have that little voice that says: "Just buy them, the prices always go up - it is a good investment...."


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> I have never tried a 6080 quad in my GOTL... Any opinions on how it compares to a pair of 6080 tubes specifically in the GOTL?


Correct me if im wrong, but isnt a pair of 6336's the same as a quad of 6080s? Granted GEC didnt make a 6336....


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Correct me if im wrong, but isnt a pair of 6336's the same as a quad of 6080s? Granted GEC didnt make a 6336....



Well a pair of 6336 draws the same amount of heater current as a quad of 6080, that is 10 amps. And I would assume both combinations would be equally capable to drive inefficient and lowZ headphones. But since my headphones are easy to drive, I can't test this.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Well a pair of 6336 draws the same amount of heater current as a quad of 6080, that is 10 amps. And I would assume both combinations would be equally capable to drive inefficient and lowZ headphones. But since my headphones are easy to drive, I can't test this.


The GOTL + a pair of 6336s turns the AKG K701 into something magical.


----------



## mordy

6336 tubes are great on a cold winter night - putting out a lot of heat!
Anyhow, here is today's roll - a pair of Brimar 6J7G:




Special mention if somebody can figure out the date code (haven't found a reference): MDU 
Is there such a thing as a Brimar house sound? Mellow; luscious mid range?
I only have another Brimar - the 25V 6SN7 equivalent 13D1 - a Glenn favorite.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Is there such a thing as a Brimar house sound? Mellow; luscious mid range?



I think you have nailed it. 

From the 6SN7 Reference Thread
http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread

*Brimar CV1988 6SN7GTY*
_[dark brown base, black glass (starting 1/4 from base and covering top of glass) with white labels on glass, clear glass (very rare)]_
● “FE is Brimar's manufacturing code, and the Y in 6SN7GTY simply means it has a brown micanol base. It's a good, lush sounding tube and perfectly usable in your amp.” –Len
● “The Brimar CV1988 6SN7GTY was the first 6SN7 I fell in love with, so it does have a place in my heart. It is not a TS/RP-sounding tube, however. Brimars are very sweet, lush sounding tubes. […] It should be noted that Brimars are also the quietest 6SN7s I've ever had the pleasure of using. All in all, the CV1988 is a terrific tube, but it is not a TS/RP competitor. You turn to Brimars when you want a more euphonic sound.” –Len
● "Lush and romantic = Brimar or RCA, Brimar being more lush but some consider bloomy. Both have strong lower end." -Len [in personal correspondence with author]


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I think you have nailed it.
> 
> From the 6SN7 Reference Thread
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread
> ...


Thanks, you made my day.
Every time you pronounce something you are worried that you came up with the wrong impression - always good to get validation lol.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Then you have that little voice that says: "Just buy them, the prices always go up - it is a good investment...."


...and this is the reason I am still seriously considering the 2nd pair!



Monsterzero said:


> Correct me if im wrong, but isnt a pair of 6336's the same as a quad of 6080s? Granted GEC didnt make a 6336....


Even if it is the "electric equivalent" - I was looking for sound impressions from people who tried 1 pair vs. 2 pairs of 6080 in their GOTL.
I have plenty headphones, both high impedance like HD800 and ZMF Verite, but also several planars and some lower impedance dynamics like Drop (Focal) Elex, and Campfire Audio's Cascade.  ANY impressions are welcome!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Monsterzero said:


> The GOTL + a pair of 6336s turns the AKG K701 into something magical.


I've never tried this and now I kind of want to.  6336 is kind of iffy on the old generation GOTLs.  It's possibly but kind of pushes the transformer to its limits so I always stayed away.


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> ...and this is the reason I am still seriously considering the 2nd pair!
> 
> 
> Even if it is the "electric equivalent" - I was looking for sound impressions from people who tried 1 pair vs. 2 pairs of 6080 in their GOTL.
> I have plenty headphones, both high impedance like HD800 and ZMF Verite, but also several planars and some lower impedance dynamics like Drop (Focal) Elex, and Campfire Audio's Cascade.  ANY impressions are welcome!



I have two pairs of GEC 6080, but again, my headphones are easy to drive and I can't detect a difference. On the other hand, I find a pair of GEC and a pair of Bendix to be a nice combination.


----------



## triod750

Has anyone compared two pairs of GEC A2293 to a pair of GEC 6080? A2293 is supposed to be half a 6AS7G.


----------



## leftside

@gibosi Do you know why most of the printed literature has '5' as the factory code for Toshiba?
https://pdfslide.net/documents/philips-tube-codes.html

I thought it was "generally accepted" that '5' was in fact the factory code for Eindhoven?


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> On the other hand, I find a pair of GEC and a pair of Bendix to be a nice combination.


gibosi - how does that mixed quad compare to just a pair of GEC or just a pair of Bendix?


----------



## gibosi (Jan 22, 2021)

leftside said:


> @gibosi Do you know why most of the printed literature has '5' as the factory code for Toshiba?
> https://pdfslide.net/documents/philips-tube-codes.html
> 
> I thought it was "generally accepted" that '5' was in fact the factory code for Eindhoven?



It's both. 

Tube production ceased at Eindhoven in the mid-1950's as Eindhoven transitioned into the main Philips research facility.  Before that time, both "4" and "5" were used to indicate Eindhoven production. And apparently, sometime after that, "5" indicated Toshiba. That said, I have never seen a Toshiba tube with that code. It may well be that the code was used for CRT's and other production that I don't collect. 

Edit:

You might find this old Philips code document interesting, but for some reason, "5" is not assigned.

https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeList.pdf


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> gibosi - how does that mixed quad compare to just a pair of GEC or just a pair of Bendix?



Sorry, but it's been too long since I mixed them together to be able to say anything definitive. I just remember thinking, "This sounds pretty good!" lol. Again, sorry. But I am sure I am not the only one who has tried this combination and perhaps they might chime in here.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> It's both.
> 
> Tube production ceased at Eindhoven in the mid-1950's as Eindhoven transitioned into the main Philips research facility.  Before that time, both "4" and "5" were used to indicate Eindhoven production. And apparently, sometime after that, "5" indicated Toshiba. That said, I have never seen a Toshiba tube with that code. It may well be that the code was used for CRT's and other production that I don't collect.
> 
> ...


Yes thats the only documentation I could find that didn't have '5' for Toshiba. Don't suppose you know of any old documents or sources of information that mention '5' as the factory code for Eindhoven? I have Philips tubes up to 1957 that are using '5' for Eindhoven.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Yes thats the only documentation I could find that didn't have '5' for Toshiba. Don't suppose you know of any old documents or sources of information that mention '5' as the factory code for Eindhoven? I have Philips tubes up to 1957 that are using '5' for Eindhoven.



No, I would have told you of such documents if I knew about them. 

In the end, I trust my ears. I have ECC40 with "4" and "5" and they sound the same to me. So I feel quite comfortable in believing that "5" is Eindhoven.


----------



## leftside (Jan 23, 2021)

gibosi said:


> No, I would have told you of such documents if I knew about them.
> 
> In the end, I trust my ears. I have ECC40 with "4" and "5" and they sound the same to me. So I feel quite comfortable in believing that "5" is Eindhoven.


I too am 100% confident as well, but it would be nice to be able to reference some official document from somewhere. I've been having great conversations with Pasquale Russo, the author of the EL34 book with a lot of great information about the Philips company. I've uncovered some early tubes not in his book (including an early metal base with factory code '6', not '5'), and investigated tubes that are close relations to the EL34. The latest edition to his book will have a brand new chapter. This led to us discussing the factory and date codes and the various permutations, but I think we are in complete agreement now.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Has anyone heard from Glenn recently, he seems off the grid. I hope he is safe & doing fine.


----------



## robo24

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Has anyone heard from Glenn recently, he seems off the grid. I hope he is safe & doing fine.


I heard from him on the 14th regarding my order. He's still busy and working some weekends, but said he is building.


----------



## mordy

Rolling along - a couple of Australian made 6J7G tubes came my way:




Each tube has a different name: Radiotron, Mullard and Philips, but they all look identical, and my guess is that they were all made in the same factory. The date codes are 17, 20 and 26 which I think means July/1951 and Jan/June 1952 but I have not been able to verify this.
Australia had vacuum tube manufacturing in three cities: Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide. My estimation is that these tubes were made here:



As you all know, this is the Philips Hendon factory in Adelaide. It was a munitions factory during WW2 and bought by Philips in 1947. This factory had more capacity than needed and that is why I think that they made tubes for other manufacturers. Radiotron was a brand used by AWV (Amalgamated Wireless Valve Co in Sydney).
Usually what people call mesh plates are just plates with small perforations in the plate, but it seems to me that these tube have a real wire mesh plate with some kind of coating:



There are people that claim that wire mesh plates sound better but all I know that these tubes sound very good. Wide sound stage, exquisite mid range and full bodied bass with very good dynamics.



Very enjoyable tubes....


----------



## Xcalibur255

That second picture made me chuckle.  I've had a couple of people ask me over the years why programs like SAP and Oracle have factory icons with those little triangle wedges across the top.  The answer:  art imitates life.  Or in this case art imitates life as it was some decades ago.


----------



## gibosi (Jan 26, 2021)

mordy said:


> Rolling along - a couple of Australian made 6J7G tubes came my way:
> 
> Each tube has a different name: Radiotron, Mullard and Philips, but they all look identical, and my guess is that they were all made in the same factory. The date codes are 17, 20 and 26 which I think means July/1951 and Jan/June 1952 but I have not been able to verify this.
> Australia had vacuum tube manufacturing in three cities: Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide. My estimation is that these tubes were made here:
> ...



Those date codes do not fit Philip's pattern, so it might be that they were manufactured by an Australian company not affiliated with Philips, but who knows? 

And your 6J7G  do not have "mesh" plates according to my eyes. The plates look like a sheet of metal with evenly spaced perforations. "Mesh" resembles the wire used to make screen doors and window screens. Below is an example of mesh plates.



Edit: The more I look at those 6J7G, I am inclined to think that the perforated metal cylindar is some kind of RF shield and not the plate.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 26, 2021)

mordy said:


> Rolling along - a couple of Australian made 6J7G tubes came my way:
> 
> Each tube has a different name: Radiotron, Mullard and Philips, but they all look identical, and my guess is that they were all made in the same factory. The date codes are 17, 20 and 26 which I think means July/1951 and Jan/June 1952 but I have not been able to verify this.
> Australia had vacuum tube manufacturing in three cities: Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide. My estimation is that these tubes were made here:
> ...





Looks like RF shielding to me too, as seen on many 6C5 tubes:




What do these sound like, @mordy ?


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Looks like RF shielding to me too, as seen on many 6C5 tubes.
> 
> What do these sound like, @mordy ?


I think that you both are right - probably an RF shield. Especially since the 6J7 is the parent of the 6C5 which has the RF shield:
https://nzvrshome.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/the-6j7-fraternity.pdf
Under fig, 2 it says:" The 6C5 was actually a 6J7 without the suppressor grid, and with the screen tied internally to the plate. "
My interest in 6J7 tubes started because I like the 6C5 triodes and the 6J7 is the progenitor to the 6C5. 
These tubes sound very nice - wide sound stage, exquisite mid range and full bodied bass with very good dynamics. 
Re the codes, each tube has printed 2 with a circle around those numbers.
                                                           4
Additional designations, all         Radiotron F78
positioned in front of the 2/4:      Mullard     40V
                                                   Phillips      G27
But I cannot figure these out.....

There is something missing in the picture above of the three tubes, but so far nobody picked up on it....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> There is something missing in the picture above of the three tubes, but so far nobody picked up on it....



I saw it...the anode cap missing on the middle one


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> I saw it...the anode cap missing on the middle one


Correct. But the seller was very nice and replaced it with another cap! He wasn't sure how to do it, but I remember DecentLevi having such a problem and solving it and I was able to explain how to do it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Correct. But the seller was very nice and replaced it with another cap! He wasn't sure how to do it, but I remember DecentLevi having such a problem and solving it and I was able to explain how to do it.



Have to solder it to the wire sticking outa there...that is the lead to the anode that is usually done via the socket pins.

Interesting the 6J7 are predecessors of 6C5.  Always liked the sound of 6C5's so, if these sound similar, must be good.
Do you 'driver triplet' anymore, Mordy?


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Have to solder it to the wire sticking outa there...that is the lead to the anode that is usually done via the socket pins.
> 
> Interesting the 6J7 are predecessors of 6C5.  Always liked the sound of 6C5's so, if these sound similar, must be good.
> Do you 'driver triplet' anymore, Mordy?


Haven't done triplets for a while, and after using six output tubes I am down to two. But the main thing is that it sounds good, whatever form it takes.
There are tons of 6J7 variants with other designations - looking for inexpensive ones to try out. Truth is, I wanted to find a GEC L63 without the GEC price. Since the L63 is equivalent to the 6J5/6C5 I decided to try the 6J7 as a triode. So far I have an alphabet soup of GEC tubes - Z63, KTW61M and KTZ63 but the Aussie tubes are truly nice sounding.


----------



## DecentLevi

@mordy so you don't have a GEC L63 yet? What about the green labeled Fivre 6J5? If you've tried those, how does your new Australian 6J7G compare, or which is your favorite of this class? 

I'm operating under the assumption 6J7 is a replacement for 6J5, or is it for 6SN7?

These are the 6J5's I have (plus the cheap Selectron 6J5). The top row is MHLD6 which also work in a 6J5 socket and require an adapter. EL3N just happened to be in the same photo.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

robo24 said:


> I heard from him on the 14th regarding my order. He's still busy and working some weekends, but said he is building.


Hope he is safe & doing fine. Nice to see he has started building. I hope his work settles soon or else the waiting period will increase which is already on quite higher side 
@DecentLevi, looks like is he working on your amp as off now.


----------



## Smallpie (Jan 30, 2021)

I know this is a long shot but if anybody ever wants to sell a GOTL amp to me please reach out.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jan 27, 2021)

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> @DecentLevi, looks like is he working on your amp as off now.


That doesn't seem to be true. I will let you know if any changes on the status of my amp order - on this thread but please not by everyone PM'ing me about my amp. It may sound abrupt, but I've had to field inquiries about the non-activity of my amp build every few weeks from about 6 people.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

DecentLevi said:


> That doesn't seem to be true. I will let you know if any changes on the status of my amp order - on this thread but please not by everyone PM'ing me about my amp. It may sound abrupt, but I've had to field inquiries about the non-activity of my amp build every few weeks from about 6 people.


Well that's how legendary Glenn's amp are.....  .... So means Glenn is yet to start building..... mean more impatient waiting period.
@2359glenn, It would be really nice to hear from you after a long time.


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> @mordy so you don't have a GEC L63 yet? What about the green labeled Fivre 6J5? If you've tried those, how does your new Australian 6J7G compare, or which is your favorite of this class?
> 
> I'm operating under the assumption 6J7 is a replacement for 6J5, or is it for 6SN7?
> 
> These are the 6J5's I have (plus the cheap Selectron 6J5). The top row is MHLD6 which also work in a 6J5 socket and require an adapter. EL3N just happened to be in the same photo.


Nice display!
I have one Marconi L63 waiting across the ocean until I can find another one at a good price. Don't have the Fivre yet.
As a rule I have imposed a limit on how much I will pay for a tube in order to keep the numbers down. With the 6J5, 6J7 and 6C5 I was able to indulge because I found some at very low prices - I probably have 30-40 or more, the bulk all metal tubes.
The 6C/J5 is a triode predecessor to the dual triode 6SN7, and the 6C5 was derived from the pentode 6J7. Using tubes of the families of 6C5, 6/12J5 and 6J7 instead of the 6SN7 requires two tubes - my experience has been that two single triodes many times sound better than a dual triode, and this may be the reason why so many of the custom built amps now have sockets for the 6J5.
I am in the midst of exploring the 6J7 family - there are many variations available and you can find inexpensive good sounding tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

I have spent all of last night and much of today and probably going to be much of tonight again, with this wonderful sounding combo.
If I only had this for sound from this amp, I would be ok with it.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jan 30, 2021)

mordy said:


> Nice display!
> I have one Marconi L63 waiting across the ocean until I can find another one at a good price. Don't have the Fivre yet.
> As a rule I have imposed a limit on how much I will pay for a tube in order to keep the numbers down. With the 6J5, 6J7 and 6C5 I was able to indulge because I found some at very low prices - I probably have 30-40 or more, the bulk all metal tubes.
> The 6C/J5 is a triode predecessor to the dual triode 6SN7, and the 6C5 was derived from the pentode 6J7. Using tubes of the families of 6C5, 6/12J5 and 6J7 instead of the 6SN7 requires two tubes - my experience has been that two single triodes many times sound better than a dual triode, and this may be the reason why so many of the custom built amps now have sockets for the 6J5.
> I am in the midst of exploring the 6J7 family - there are many variations available and you can find inexpensive good sounding tubes.


Interesting Mordy, thanks. So 6J7 is a pentode that replaces a single triode tube and works as a pair in two 6J5 sockets? I guess it needs an adapter because of the top caps. Which adapter did you use?
Looks like many of the 'ST' tubes of all types were made way back in the 30's. Them tubes with curves certainly can be beauties with a classic look and rich / organic sounds, but alas I guess the trend was short lived in preference of more compact / miniature tubes, then ultimately replaced by diodes. At least there are a minority still being produced even today.


----------



## mordy (Jan 30, 2021)

DecentLevi said:


> Interesting Mordy, thanks. So 6J7 is a pentode that replaces a single triode tube and works as a pair in two 6J5 sockets? I guess it needs an adapter because of the top caps. Which adapter did you use?
> Looks like many of the 'ST' tubes of all types were made way back in the 30's. Them tubes with curves certainly can be beauties with a classic look and rich / organic sounds, but alas I guess the trend was short lived in preference of more compact / miniature tubes, then ultimately replaced by diodes. At least there are a minority still being produced even today.


The adapters for the 6J7 tubes possibly you have already - the 6J7 has the same pinout as the EL32. Mrs Xuling made adapters for EL32 to C3g. The adapters I have now (which are better made) are EL32 to C3g made by Deyan.
You are right - there was a constant trend towards miniaturization.


----------



## mordy (Jan 31, 2021)

Have you heard about a tube 6K7? It is an all metal tube and I discovered that it has the same pinout as the 6J7. The specs seemed similar so decided to give it a try. The price was right to experiment - 6 tubes for around $18 including shipping. The tubes were mostly from the mid 40's and included Tung-Sol, GE and Ken-Rad.
When I first tried them they did not sound good with too sharp a treble and a metallic tinge (pun intended) to the sound. I just used them briefly and wrote them off.

However, now I have discovered the benefit of using Chatham 6AS7G with the 6K7 as drivers and that, together with some 30-40 hours of burn in, make them sound much better. The 6J7 seem to be more lyrical and musical; the 6K7 is more analytical. The instrument separation is very good and the tubes have a very clear incisive presentation with good sound stage and tone. -Funny what a difference one letter makes lol.....
Tons of offers on eBay for 6K7 for under $10 - if you shop carefully you could find tubes in the $3 range. And don't be afraid of a little rust - doesn't affect the sound:



If you can't stand it black hi temp silicone tape will take care of it.
The tubes I have don't have much rust on them:



(Looks like I should have dusted them off before the photo shoot - just concentrated on the tube pins but they were very clean)
The Tung Sol tube has a date code of I8 - September 1938?
Have fun!


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> a little black nail polish will take care of it...


mordy, I never took you for a goth dude...


----------



## mordy

In exploring new tubes I would like to know if you can learn something about how the tube is going to sound by looking a curve diagrams. Here are two diagrams - do they indicate anything about the quality of the sound? Diagram on bottom right for this tube:



And another set of curves for a different tube:



What does it mean that the spacing of the curves is uneven in the second picture?


----------



## triod750

I am listening to them right now with Ken-Rad 6N7 as input and they sound wonderful but those curves would never explain what I am hearing. One of my many shortcomings. I am as eager to get an explanation as you are but I will probably not understand it.


----------



## mordy

triod750 said:


> I am listening to them right now with Ken-Rad 6N7 as input and they sound wonderful but those curves would never explain what I am hearing. One of my many shortcomings. I am as eager to get an explanation as you are but I will probably not understand it.


The first tube is a good sounding tube (Melz 6H12C) and the curves are very evenly spaced; the second is an unknown tube 6U7G and the curves are unevenly spaced - does that mean anything re how it sounds?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> In exploring new tubes I would like to know if you can learn something about how the tube is going to sound by looking a curve diagrams. Here are two diagrams - do they indicate anything about the quality of the sound? Diagram on bottom right for this tube:
> 
> And another set of curves for a different tube:
> 
> What does it mean that the spacing of the curves is uneven in the second picture?



mordy - the evenness / spacing of the curves does give an indication of the linearity of the tube, which translates to the degree of asymmetrical / even harmonic distortion generated.  More even spacing means less distortion, although this is very dependent on the load line for the tube.  The ideal scenario is a flat load line, which would represent an infinite AC impedance as the load.  The less flat the load line, the higher the distortion will be.  Compare, for example, a constant-current source load representing and 10Megaohm load (flat load line) vs. a 20K resistor load (less flat load).  The distortion will be much higher using the resistor.

Now the curves for the second tube you posted are pentode curves, not triode (they are sideways, typically viewed with current on the y-axis and voltage on the x-axis).  In either case, you can see that the spacing is less even compared to a typical triode.  This is why triodes are preferred over pentodes *for tube amplifiers not utilizing negative feedback.*  A pentode will typically generate more distortion, but also have much higher gain, which allows for the use of negative feedback to reduce the distortion generated.  It is worth noting that he curves for a pentode are similar to those of a transistor, they behave similarly.  This gets to the root of what makes tube amplifiers appealing to many audiophiles - the triodes are inherently linear, so reasonable levels of distortion can be achieved without the use of negative feedback, which is commonly thought by many audiophiles to have a detrimental effect on the sound, although this is a hot topic of debate, especially between audiophiles and audio engineers...

If you want to compare a triode-strapped pentode to a triode, you have to find or generate triode curves.  Many pentode datasheets will provide the curves for the triode-strapped pentode, but many do not.  Sometimes you can find people online who have traced the triode curves for specific pentodes as some are as linear or more linear than true triodes.  However, there are pentodes out there without triode curves on the datasheets and are not well-known enough to have the triode curves available elsewhere, so the only way to get them is to trace the curves.

Now, distortion is only one component of how an amplifier is going to sound, but generally lower distortion is regarded as a positive.  Some of the most linear tubes ever made are the very early directly-heated triodes (300B, 45, 50, PX25, 801A, etc.), the reason these tubes are used in so many single-ended class A designs.


----------



## mordy (Jan 31, 2021)

L0rdGwyn said:


> mordy - the evenness / spacing of the curves does give an indication of the linearity of the tube, which translates to the degree of asymmetrical / even harmonic distortion generated.  More even spacing means less distortion, although this is very dependent on the load line for the tube.  The ideal scenario is a flat load line, which would represent an infinite AC impedance as the load.  The less flat the load line, the higher the distortion will be.  Compare, for example, a constant-current source load representing and 10Megaohm load (flat load line) vs. a 20K resistor load (less flat load).  The distortion will be much higher using the resistor.
> 
> Now the curves for the second tube you posted are pentode curves, not triode (they are sideways, typically viewed with current on the y-axis and voltage on the x-axis).  In either case, you can see that the spacing is less even compared to a typical triode.  This is why triodes are preferred over pentodes *for tube amplifiers not utilizing negative feedback.*  A pentode will typically generate more distortion, but also have much higher gain, which allows for the use of negative feedback to reduce the distortion generated.  It is worth noting that he curves for a pentode are similar to those of a transistor, they behave similarly.  This gets to the root of what makes tube amplifiers appealing to many audiophiles - the triodes are inherently linear, so reasonable levels of distortion can be achieved without the use of negative feedback, which is commonly thought by many audiophiles to have a detrimental effect on the sound, although this is a hot topic of debate, especially between audiophiles and audio engineers...
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your detailed answer. I cannot say that I understand everything but I have somewhat of an understanding now.
The second tube is indeed a pentode, but I wanted to use it as a triode. This tube has "defined voltage and current AC/DC" and I don't know if that makes it less or more suitable in an OTL amp.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_tube_info.cfm?tube_pk=2721&outInfo=heatingCSupp
Would appreciate your input - thanks.
PS: I note that the tube I am presently listening to (6K7) is included in tubes with defined voltage/current AC/DC.
Are these tubes used in early car radios? In the past we used such a tube - the FDD20.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Thank you very much for your detailed answer. I cannot say that I understand everything but I have somewhat of an understanding now.
> The second tube is indeed a pentode, but I wanted to use it as a triode. This tube has "defined voltage and current AC/DC" and I don't know if that makes it less or more suitable in an OTL amp.
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_tube_info.cfm?tube_pk=2721&outInfo=heatingCSupp
> Would appreciate your input - thanks.
> ...



No problem.  From what I can tell, these were used as intermediate-frequency amplifiers in superheterodyne receivers, meant to operate at radio frequencies as opposed to audio frequencies as a pentode, so in that use case they were not built to be linear.  They might be usable as a triode, but can't say how well they will perform without triode curves.


----------



## gibosi (Jan 31, 2021)

L0rdGwyn said:


> No problem.  From what I can tell, these were used as intermediate-frequency amplifiers in superheterodyne receivers, meant to operate at radio frequencies as opposed to audio frequencies as a pentode, so in that use case they were not built to be linear.  They might be usable as a triode, but can't say how well they will perform without triode curves.



And this reminds me of the 6AK5 in the Little Dot. Never meant for audio use, but some of them sounded quite good.


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> The adapters for the 6J7 tubes possibly you have already - the 6J7 has the same pinout as the EL32. Mrs Xuling made adapters for EL32 to C3g. The adapters I have now (which are better made) are EL32 to C3g made by Deyan.
> You are right - there was a constant trend towards miniaturization.


Cool stuff Mordy. I confirmed with @Deyan my current dual EL32 to 6SN7 adapter should work for the 6J7; which also means two single 6J7 to 6J5 adapters would work if you have two 6J5 sockets. Including the bottle shaped 6J7G are supposed to work too even though may may appear tall in photos.

He also said 6J7 can work in the EL32 to KT66 adapter, in case any of you are interested (this would be a single tube adapter if I'm not mistaken). But I would be concerned the grid bias may not be correct to run these optimally as output / power tubes.


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Cool stuff Mordy. I confirmed with @Deyan my current dual EL32 to 6SN7 adapter should work for the 6J7; which also means two single 6J7 to 6J5 adapters would work if you have two 6J5 sockets. Including the bottle shaped 6J7G are supposed to work too even though may may appear tall in photos.
> 
> He also said 6J7 can work in the EL32 to KT66 adapter, in case any of you are interested (this would be a single tube adapter if I'm not mistaken). But I would be concerned the grid bias may not be correct to run these optimally as output / power tubes.


I have a dual adapter 6J5 to 6SN7 (also works for 6C5 and 12J5). The Chinese adapter I used before for EL32 to C3g had an anode wire that was short for certain British tubes, but Deyan's adapters have ample length for the anode wire and can accommodate even very tall tubes.
I have several 6J7 and 6J7G type tubes and find them very good sounding in triode mode.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Thank you very much for your detailed answer. I cannot say that I understand everything but I have somewhat of an understanding now.
> The second tube is indeed a pentode, but I wanted to use it as a triode. This tube has "defined voltage and current AC/DC" and I don't know if that makes it less or more suitable in an OTL amp.
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_tube_info.cfm?tube_pk=2721&outInfo=heatingCSupp
> Would appreciate your input - thanks.
> ...



FDD20:

http://www.radiomilitari.com/safar_modulator.html

Says power supply sent 12v DC to the filiments and 450v to the anodes!   Cookin' with 4 of them!!!


----------



## mordy

We are having a snowstorm here - up to a foot and a half of snow anticipated:




Time to bring out some house warmers:



Here is a pair of 6336 5A graphite tubes. The right one is a 6336B, the left a 6336A - didn't realize until now that they are different in size.
Anyhow, inspired by Triod750 I decided to try the Ken-Rad 6N7 and a pair Chatham 6080. This is similar to the original figuration of Glenn's OTL with just three tubes (although I think Glenn used a rectifier as well, mine is a Hexfred). According to Glenn, such a configuration has the same sound as the more elaborate GOTL amplifiers.
At first this specific combination did not sound good, but then I remembered that the metal tubes need at least 1/2 hour to warm up to sound their best - longer than glass tubes.  Now, after warming up, this simple configuration is very nice sounding.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Here is a pair of 6336 5A graphite tubes. The right one is a 6336B, the left a 6336A - didn't realize until now that they are different in size.


Mordy - any obvious differences between 6336A and 6336B other than size?
I have 1 or 2 pairs of 6336A, but no 6336B tubes at all...


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> We are having a snowstorm here - up to a foot and a half of snow anticipated:
> 
> Time to bring out some house warmers:
> 
> ...


Yup...out here in Suffolk County its coming down non stop since about 9pm last evening. My girl loves it. Me? Not so much.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Mordy - any obvious differences between 6336A and 6336B other than size?
> I have 1 or 2 pairs of 6336A, but no 6336B tubes at all...


There are 6336 tubes with regular plates and graphite plates - the graphite plates are supposed to sound better. Then there are different brands of the 6336 - the Cetron 6336B is supposed to be the best sounding and that is the one I have been using. 
The tubes in the pictures (RCA and Raytheon but probably rebranded [Tung Sol?] both arrived DOA but I cannot get myself to throw them away yet....But as mentioned, I have several other pairs.
There is a company Richardson Electric that may have some Cetron 6336B left at a better price than eBay.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> There are 6336 tubes with regular plates and graphite plates - the graphite plates are supposed to sound better. Then there are different brands of the 6336 - the Cetron 6336B is supposed to be the best sounding and that is the one I have been using.
> The tubes in the pictures (RCA and Raytheon but probably rebranded [Tung Sol?] both arrived DOA but I cannot get myself to throw them away yet....But as mentioned, I have several other pairs.
> There is a company Richardson Electric that may have some Cetron 6336B left at a better price than eBay.


Taking inventory again - I have 2 pairs of 6336A and 1 forgotten pair of 6336B...


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Yup...out here in Suffolk County its coming down non stop since about 9pm last evening. My girl loves it. Me? Not so much.



We have about 6 - 7 inches....like you, I don't care much for it!


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Taking inventory again - I have 2 pairs of 6336A and 1 forgotten pair of 6336B...


Usually I don't forget about which tubes I have, but I do forget where I put them.....


----------



## Xcalibur255

Been a weird winter around these parts so far.  Normally we would be getting all this snow, but all the major storms are missing this area and in their place we keep getting these tornado/hurricane speed straight winds for days at a time.  At times they are 60-70 mph sustained with gusts above 80 mph, enough to be genuinely dangerous.  The neighbor who shares the duplex I rent had his screen door ripped out of his hand and blown clean away.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> We have about 6 - 7 inches....like you, I don't care much for it!



It's not bad at all in Columbus, about 4 inches


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> It's not bad at all in Columbus, about 4 inches



The streets are all clear in town here...not sure how it may be out on the county roads though


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> The streets are all clear in town here...not sure how it may be out on the county roads though


Was going to go outside with a ruler to measure the snowfall but it is only 12" and not long enough; besides, it is still snowing....


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Usually I don't forget about which tubes I have, but I do forget where I put them.....


...well, WHERE they are is a different question


----------



## wenbinbin2010

gibosi said:


> It's not bad at all in Columbus, about 4 inches



A fellow Columbusite! Roads were much worse during rush hour this evening with it actively sleeting. Sad that I recently sold my GOTL so I probably won't be perusing this thread as much anymore, but maybe again one day when I finally get that fabled response from Glenn for a new build!


----------



## gibosi

wenbinbin2010 said:


> A fellow Columbusite! Roads were much worse during rush hour this evening with it actively sleeting. Sad that I recently sold my GOTL so I probably won't be perusing this thread as much anymore, but maybe again one day when I finally get that fabled response from Glenn for a new build!



Nice to meet you. And for sure, we are all hoping that Glenn's life settles down soon so that he will have time to stop in to chat here and to build more amps.


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Was going to go outside with a ruler to measure the snowfall but it is only 12" and not long enough; besides, it is still snowing....


That ruler would not help - we ended up with over 22”!
Time to dig out.......


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> That ruler would not help - we ended up with over 22”!
> Time to dig out.......


Oh my!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sunny warm, beautiful here today.  The high hit near 70...suntan weather


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> Sunny warm, beautiful here today.  The high hit near 70...suntan weather



I am jealous!


----------



## Smallpie

Can I use 5691 6sl7 and  a 2c52 In my GOTL amp?

What up with the 6c3. Is that an added socket that is in some builds or is used in the driver socket?


----------



## Zachik

Akiravelvet said:


> Can I use 5691 6sl7 and  a 2c52 In my GOTL amp?
> 
> What up with the 6c3. Is that an added socket that is in some builds or is used in the driver socket?


5691 and 6SL7 - yes, no problem.
2C52 and 6C3 - not sure. Will let others respond on that one.

Have a look at my comprehensive compatibility table (in my signature). I will add 2C52 and/or 6C3 if others confirm compatibility...


----------



## Smallpie (Feb 3, 2021)

Zachik said:


> 5691 and 6SL7 - yes, no problem.
> 2C52 and 6C3 - not sure. Will let others respond on that one.
> 
> Have a look at my comprehensive compatibility table (in my signature). I will add 2C52 and/or 6C3 if others confirm compatibility...


**EDIT

Ok thanks. 2c52 is a substitute for the 6SL7. The other I meant **C3g (not 6C3). I don’t understand that one in your chart


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> 5691 and 6SL7 - yes, no problem.
> 2C52 and 6C3 - not sure. Will let others respond on that one.
> 
> Have a look at my comprehensive compatibility table (in my signature). I will add 2C52 and/or 6C3 if others confirm compatibility...


As Zachik states  no problem with 5691 and 6SL7. The 2C52 is a 12V tube so if you have the 12V switch should work. However, you have to check out the pinout to see if it is compatible with what you have. The other more important consideration is that the amplification factor is 100 (compared to 70 for the 6SL7 and 20 for the 6SN7) and it may too high. If I remember correctly Glenn advised against the 12AX7 because it has a multiplification factor of 100 and thus too much gain.
The 6C3P is a triode. I am not familiar with it but you will need two tubes and a special adapter 2x6C3P to 6SN7. If you want to try this type of Russian tubes it would be easier to use a 6n23P dual triode that uses an easily available 6DJ8 to 6SN7 adapter.


----------



## mordy

Akiravelvet said:


> Ok thanks. 2c52 is a substitute for the 6SL7. The other I meant 3cG (not 6C3). I don’t understand that one in your chart


Most likely you mean the C3g tube. This is a highly regarded pentode tube. My GOTL has the sockets for it and it works great. Having these pentode sockets I have the availability of using a host of other pentodes (and tetrodes) with different adapters such as EL11, 6J7  etc etc.


----------



## Smallpie

mordy said:


> Most likely you mean the C3g tube. This is a highly regarded pentode tube. My GOTL has the sockets for it and it works great. Having these pentode sockets I have the availability of using a host of other pentodes (and tetrodes) with different adapters such as EL11, 6J7  etc etc.




Sorry, I kept getting that wrong. Yes the C3g. So you need an actual socket for that one? Bummer. My GOTL is a stock form with rectifier socket, 2power sockets, 1 driver and a switch to change voltage.

I don’t have the added sockets I see a lot have.


----------



## mordy

Akiravelvet said:


> Sorry, I kept getting that wrong. Yes the C3g. So you need an actual socket for that one? Bummer. My GOTL is a stock form with rectifier socket, 2power sockets, 1 driver and a switch to change voltage.
> 
> I don’t have the added sockets I see a lot have.


Looks like you have the basic Glenn OTL with four sockets but there is nothing wrong with that. You can get all kinds of adapters to use the tubes you mention. According to Glenn the sound signature is the same as the amps with multiple sockets.
I believe gibosi has such an amp and he has tried a host of different tubes using that layout.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Looks like you have the basic Glenn OTL with four sockets but there is nothing wrong with that. You can get all kinds of adapters to use the tubes you mention. According to Glenn the sound signature is the same as the amps with multiple sockets.
> I believe gibosi has such an amp and he has tried a host of different tubes using that layout.



Except that I also have the C3g sockets. It was the first GOTL that can run C3g natively.


----------



## gibosi

It's been fairly quiet here...

Decided to try living on the dangerous side and install a pair of Chatham 6336, the first version with metal plates, not graphite. The date code is 847, or 1958, week 47. And the driver is a WWII gray-glass National Union 6SN7GT and the rectifier is the 'Mighty 596'. 

I have never compared these to the later graphite versions, but this combination sounds good to my ears.


----------



## whirlwind

I have never heard the metal plates....they run as hot as the graphite plates ?


----------



## gibosi

Don't know. I have never been brave enough (foolish?) to touch any of these metal based output tubes. But putting my hand somewhat close, the top of the amp is cool.


----------



## gibosi (Feb 5, 2021)

Folks who have been around here for awhile might remember that a number of people felt that the metal-plate early 6336 was prone to arching. But then, we've heard the same thing said about the 5998. So I figured I'd give these a try.


----------



## whirlwind

The graphite plate 6336 ....I could feel the warmth with my amp next to me.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> The graphite plate 6336 ....I could feel the warmth with my amp next to me.


Yeah - those are definitely winter time tubes!


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> Don't know. I have never been brave enough (foolish?) to touch any of these metal based output tubes. But putting my hand somewhat close, the top of the amp is cool.


It's the transformer I'd be heat checking with those current hungry tubes.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> The graphite plate 6336 ....I could feel the warmth with my amp next to me.



Since I have a remote, I typically sit about 3 or 4 feet from the amp, so I really don't notice the heat, or lack thereof.



Xcalibur255 said:


> It's the transformer I'd be heat checking with those current hungry tubes.



Well, Glenn told me that it was safe to run these 5-amp tubes so I never worry about it.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Since I have a remote, I typically sit about 3 or 4 feet from the amp, so I really don't notice the heat, or lack thereof.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Glenn told me that it was safe to run these 5-amp tubes so I never worry about it.



He told me the same, I never had any issues they just run warmer....heck I have never even blown a fan on my amp with any tubes...just throw the tubes in and listen.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

As long as the current rating of the heater winding isn't exceeded, it will be fine.  For those with the Lundahl transformer, they are known for being conservative with their ratings so even going over a little bit won't hurt anything.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

mordy said:


> I would like to add another comment about measurements. Several people that I respect have told me that the measurements in seller's ads cannot be relied on (the exceptions will be described shortly) and that they are basically meaningless.





cddc said:


> Hi mordy, I agree with you that tube testers need calibration from time to time. But it's more or less of an accuracy issue. Say, a good calibrated tester will give you a 5% tolerance, an out-of-tune tester will give you a 15% tolerance. But we still need the measurements from testers in order to get an estimate of tube conditions.



I was recently informed that a number of tubes that I sold as-is to another member, which were packaged with my GOTL, had below minimum measurements on his tube tester (borrowed from a local hi-fi store). As a novice tube roller without my own tester, this is incredibly frustrating. Virtually all of the tubes I purchased were off eBay, from "reputable" sellers with near or at 100% positive feedback with 100-1000s of reviews. All were either advertised as NOS or at least strong measurements, and much higher than minimum. 

I'm curious to know how often people have encountered tubes advertised as testing strong, but then arriving as duds. Or am I just unlucky? There were many eBay-purchased tubes that did test well though, so I guess technically it was only a portion of tubes that tested low. Going forward, is there a way to buy tubes on eBay, or other marketplace sites like Etsy, confidently without a home or local tube tester? One other option would be to buy only from some of the more truly reputable dealers (Upscale, Brent Jesse, etc.), but those also cost significantly more. You get what you pay for I suppose. 

I planned on eventually revisiting the GOTL or one of other Glenn's creations when I hear back from him. But I feel really put off by this experience. My foray into tube rolling really started with the GOTL, and I've gained so much knowledge through this resourceful thread, including tips on good tube sales (many on eBay even). So I appreciate any insight and advice!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

wenbinbin2010 said:


> I was recently informed that a number of tubes that I sold as-is to another member, which were packaged with my GOTL, had below minimum measurements on his tube tester (borrowed from a local hi-fi store). As a novice tube roller without my own tester, this is incredibly frustrating. Virtually all of the tubes I purchased were off eBay, from "reputable" sellers with near or at 100% positive feedback with 100-1000s of reviews. All were either advertised as NOS or at least strong measurements, and much higher than minimum.
> 
> I'm curious to know how often people have encountered tubes advertised as testing strong, but then arriving as duds. Or am I just unlucky? There were many eBay-purchased tubes that did test well though, so I guess technically it was only a portion of tubes that tested low. Going forward, is there a way to buy tubes on eBay, or other marketplace sites like Etsy, confidently without a home or local tube tester? One other option would be to buy only from some of the more truly reputable dealers (Upscale, Brent Jesse, etc.), but those also cost significantly more. You get what you pay for I suppose.
> 
> I planned on eventually revisiting the GOTL or one of other Glenn's creations when I hear back from him. But I feel really put off by this experience. My foray into tube rolling really started with the GOTL, and I've gained so much knowledge through this resourceful thread, including tips on good tube sales (many on eBay even). So I appreciate any insight and advice!



If you are buying a lot of tubes, it is at least worth considering getting an inexpensive tube tester to confirm test results.  Does he/she know if the tube tester that was borrowed is properly calibrated?


----------



## cddc

wenbinbin2010 said:


> I was recently informed that a number of tubes that I sold as-is to another member, which were packaged with my GOTL, had below minimum measurements on his tube tester (borrowed from a local hi-fi store). As a novice tube roller without my own tester, this is incredibly frustrating. Virtually all of the tubes I purchased were off eBay, from "reputable" sellers with near or at 100% positive feedback with 100-1000s of reviews. All were either advertised as NOS or at least strong measurements, and much higher than minimum.
> 
> I'm curious to know how often people have encountered tubes advertised as testing strong, but then arriving as duds. Or am I just unlucky? There were many eBay-purchased tubes that did test well though, so I guess technically it was only a portion of tubes that tested low. Going forward, is there a way to buy tubes on eBay, or other marketplace sites like Etsy, confidently without a home or local tube tester? One other option would be to buy only from some of the more truly reputable dealers (Upscale, Brent Jesse, etc.), but those also cost significantly more. You get what you pay for I suppose.
> 
> I planned on eventually revisiting the GOTL or one of other Glenn's creations when I hear back from him. But I feel really put off by this experience. My foray into tube rolling really started with the GOTL, and I've gained so much knowledge through this resourceful thread, including tips on good tube sales (many on eBay even). So I appreciate any insight and advice!




eBay is a mine field, there are as many liars as honest ones. 1000+ 100% positive feedbacks can help you filter some bad sellers, but it's not 100% safe. I once met a liar on eBay and left a negative feedback on him to alert others, to my surprise when I happened to see his profile several months later, he became 100% positive again. So I called eBay several times to complain about it, however eBay just ignored my complaints. I guess buyers do not pay commissions to eBay, so eBay works in favor of sellers, especially the big ones. Buying from eBay is like a gamble, sometimes good sometimes bad.

I agree with LG, you can check what tube tester the buyer used, when it was last calibrated, and if he operated it correctly (incorrect settings can also make a good tube test bad).

Other things need to consider. NOS tubes normally live in the 5,000 hours lifespan ballpark, some are rated for 10k hours, IIRC. There are wear and tear on tubes, especially on the power tubes. Signal tubes normally consume much slower.

BTW, we should definitely avoid the following sellers, after reviewing their listings and profiles I find them all liars (attn - many of them are 100% positive feebacked): 

"LOL....*Menifee_Audio* (aka BangyBang) is a notorious scammer. Not only he asks for 4x - 10x ongoing market prices, but also he is very sneaky on his tube measurements. He never tells you what tester he uses and when his tester was last calibrated, so it's basically the same thing as having no tester. And he is demanding extremely high prices...what a joke!

*greengirl613* is slightly better than Menifee, though GreenGirl613 is also asking ridiculous prices and being dishonest (he uses lots of accounts to fool buyers, *greengirl613*, *thegeminigirl*, *fng2u, oceanview_hi, ....,* just name a few), his tube testing values at least seem normal.

Other suspicious sellers you guys should pay attention to are *igolioto and brhines2012* . They use some crappy out-of-tune TV-3 and Mercury testers that often give 3500-3600 Micromhos to 6SN7 tubes. It is impossible for a 6SN7 (100% NOS = 2600 Micromhos) to reach such a high measurement, if you often check tube measurements on higher grade testers like TV-7 on fleabay, you'll know their numbers are just jokes. If you buy 6SN7's from them, make sure they test at least 3500 Micromhos on their testers, a 3100-3200 Micromhos tube from their testers could possibly measure only 80% on a truly calibrated tester.

Will let you guys know other suspicious sellers if I notice them."

I would now also add an "Italian BangyBang" to the list - *wege_high_tubes*. LOL


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Abyss 1266 phi is a difficult headphone to drive. At the 2017 local audio meet, I had a session with the Abyss on my Ragnarok and it was ok. Rag was powerful enough to drive it. @Sound Trooper reported that his Abyss was well driven by his GEL3N. In the Studio Six thread, reports were mixed as to whether the Six drove the Abyss well, even though the designer says the Six drove his HE6 very well.
> 
> If I had the Abyss, I will drive it with the Sansui au alpha 907mr, which in a strange twist of fate, is returning to me.


Time to test the Abyss. I will skip the LCD-4. LOL


----------



## Zachik

wenbinbin2010 said:


> I was recently informed that a number of tubes that I sold as-is to another member, which were packaged with my GOTL, had below minimum measurements on his tube tester (borrowed from a local hi-fi store). As a novice tube roller without my own tester, this is incredibly frustrating. Virtually all of the tubes I purchased were off eBay, from "reputable" sellers with near or at 100% positive feedback with 100-1000s of reviews. All were either advertised as NOS or at least strong measurements, and much higher than minimum.
> 
> I'm curious to know how often people have encountered tubes advertised as testing strong, but then arriving as duds. Or am I just unlucky? There were many eBay-purchased tubes that did test well though, so I guess technically it was only a portion of tubes that tested low. Going forward, is there a way to buy tubes on eBay, or other marketplace sites like Etsy, confidently without a home or local tube tester? One other option would be to buy only from some of the more truly reputable dealers (Upscale, Brent Jesse, etc.), but those also cost significantly more. You get what you pay for I suppose.
> 
> I planned on eventually revisiting the GOTL or one of other Glenn's creations when I hear back from him. But I feel really put off by this experience. My foray into tube rolling really started with the GOTL, and I've gained so much knowledge through this resourceful thread, including tips on good tube sales (many on eBay even). So I appreciate any insight and advice!


So... I just tested 8 NOS tubes that I bought from eBay. All 8 looked NOS (clean shiny pins, no sign of use at all, etc.).
2000 is NOS measurement for those tubes on my tester. 4 tubes tested between 2000 and 2050. Another 2 tested 1900 and 1850, and then one tested 1600 and one 1150. Last one is below 65% which means too weak.
Those tubes were very cheap, so no big deal, but the moral of the story is:
After 40-50+ years of storage - not all new tubes still test NOS... Unless someone was really good at making old tubes look new, but I doubt it in this specific case! Not to mention not worth the trouble for very cheap tubes...


----------



## wenbinbin2010

L0rdGwyn said:


> If you are buying a lot of tubes, it is at least worth considering getting an inexpensive tube tester to confirm test results.  Does he/she know if the tube tester that was borrowed is properly calibrated?



Yes calibrated, and I do trust the buyer. I'm more shocked that even buying from seemingly trustworthy sellers isn't always safe. Sure maybe testing a little lower than advertised is not out of the realm of possibility, but to test below minimum is truthfully a scam. Way too late to open up any eBay cases unfortunately. Thankfully my current amp doesn't really cater to much tube rolling (there's the $300-500 300Bs...and then the $1000-2000 300Bs). But if I do end up exploring tube rolling again, I will certainly have to factor in the cost of either testing myself, or buying from the more well-regarded shops, rather than off eBay. 

What might be helpful is if there was a stickied list of all the known "good" tube sellers, and a list of the bad ones, similar to what @cddc was listing out. I'm sure such a resource exists somewhere out there, but never thought about seeking that information out until recently.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> So... I just tested 8 NOS tubes that I bought from eBay. All 8 looked NOS (clean shiny pins, no sign of use at all, etc.).
> 2000 is NOS measurement for those tubes on my tester. 4 tubes tested between 2000 and 2050. Another 2 tested 1900 and 1850, and then one tested 1600 and one 1150. Last one is below 65% which means too weak.
> Those tubes were very cheap, so no big deal, but the moral of the story is:
> After 40-50+ years of storage - not all new tubes still test NOS... Unless someone was really good at making old tubes look new, but I doubt it in this specific case! Not to mention not worth the trouble for very cheap tubes...


Question: If you took two tubes from this lot, one measuring 2050 and the other the 1150 tube, would you be able to hear a difference?
I am not asking about how ethical it is to sell a sub standard measuring tube as a perfect, new one - of course this is wrong. But from a practical perspective, is there an audible difference between these two?
Obviously the sub measuring tube would not last as long as the others, but on the other hand I personally change tubes so often that I cannot remember wearing out a tube from use. There are people on this forum who have used the same tube for 10 years and more and there is still life left in those tubes.
I am in no way defending selling poor measuring tubes as new, but I am curious about the answer to my question since I do not have a tester and cannot ascertain NOS status or not.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

mordy said:


> Question: If you took two tubes from this lot, one measuring 2050 and the other the 1150 tube, would you be able to hear a difference?



To add onto that thought, I thought all the tubes I sold off sounded great! Despite their reported low testing values.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

wenbinbin2010 said:


> Yes calibrated, and I do trust the buyer. I'm more shocked that even buying from seemingly trustworthy sellers isn't always safe. Sure maybe testing a little lower than advertised is not out of the realm of possibility, but to test below minimum is truthfully a scam. Way too late to open up any eBay cases unfortunately. Thankfully my current amp doesn't really cater to much tube rolling (there's the $300-500 300Bs...and then the $1000-2000 300Bs). But if I do end up exploring tube rolling again, I will certainly have to factor in the cost of either testing myself, or buying from the more well-regarded shops, rather than off eBay.
> 
> What might be helpful is if there was a stickied list of all the known "good" tube sellers, and a list of the bad ones, similar to what @cddc was listing out. I'm sure such a resource exists somewhere out there, but never thought about seeking that information out until recently.



Things do happen, it's possible the sellers were not using the test equipment properly, poor calibration, etc. so were perhaps not aware they were selling bad tubes.  I buy off eBay, even buy untested NOS tubes often if the price is right, but have a reliable testing method, it's the only way to be sure, would recommend it if you get back into tubes.



mordy said:


> Question: If you took two tubes from this lot, one measuring 2050 and the other the 1150 tube, would you be able to hear a difference?
> I am not asking about how ethical it is to sell a sub standard measuring tube as a perfect, new one - of course this is wrong. But from a practical perspective, is there an audible difference between these two?
> Obviously the sub measuring tube would not last as long as the others, but on the other hand I personally change tubes so often that I cannot remember wearing out a tube from use. There are people on this forum who have used the same tube for 10 years and more and there is still life left in those tubes.
> I am in no way defending selling poor measuring tubes as new, but I am curious about the answer to my question since I do not have a tester and cannot ascertain NOS status or not.



With a difference that large, you would likely hear a channel imbalance.  Smaller differences won't be detectable in my experience.


----------



## raindownthunda

wenbinbin2010 said:


> To add onto that thought, I thought all the tubes I sold off sounded great! Despite their reported low testing values.


I too wonder the same. Is ignorance bliss when it comes to test values? I’ve bought quite a few used / untested tubes of the same type and have never been able to notice any difference with back to back testing. Do well worn tubes sound worse in some way, or would they just take more power to get to the same levels?


----------



## mordy

raindownthunda said:


> I too wonder the same. Is ignorance bliss when it comes to test values? I’ve bought quite a few used / untested tubes of the same type and have never been able to notice any difference with back to back testing. Do well worn tubes sound worse in some way, or would they just take more power to get to the same levels?


Same here - In general I buy tubes based on price and very rarely I receive defective tubes with the exception of those few that are DOA. The eBay and PayPal buyer protection policies work well, and when something like that happens usually there is no problem getting a refund.
From what I understand a very worn tube will have less volume until it gives out but the process is gradual.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Question: If you took two tubes from this lot, one measuring 2050 and the other the 1150 tube, would you be able to hear a difference?





L0rdGwyn said:


> With a difference that large, you would likely hear a channel imbalance. Smaller differences won't be detectable in my experience.


I have not tested those tube on an amp, yet. Hope to find the time to do so later tonight, using my GOTL with 2x6J5 to 6SN7 adapter...


----------



## GDuss

mordy said:


> Same here - In general I buy tubes based on price and very rarely I receive defective tubes with the exception of those few that are DOA. The eBay and PayPal buyer protection policies work well, and when something like that happens usually there is no problem getting a refund.
> From what I understand a very worn tube will have less volume until it gives out but the process is gradual.



Same here.  I haven't had problems with DOA tubes and many (most?) of mine have come from eBay.  I've had problems with tubes that were excessively noisy, where you can clearly hear the noise with music playing, but not with DOA tubes.  If the tube was noisy and "expensive", and the seller offers returns, I typically contact them, describe the situation, and ask if they will accept a return.  Generally they do.  If the tube is noisy and cheap, like a metal 6J5, I don't worry about it and chalk it up to gambling on cheap tubes.

I don't have a tube tester so can't really say what the actual values are on any of the tubes that are here.  But I can't think of a single example in my pairings of power tubes and 6J5/6C5/12J5-type tubes on the GOTL where I could hear differences between the tubes in the pair (assuming they are the same manufacturer and general production era).  So either I am super lucky and they were all at/near NOS, or they have to be quite far off from each other to notice.  Or I just can't hear differences like this, but my observations seem to be consistent with others posting above.


----------



## whirlwind

I have bought many tubes that tested good...but they may not have been NOS. 
Tubes in general, have a nice long life....


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Tubes in general, have a nice long life....


Are you saying I do not really need the 6th and 7th set of rare NOS GE 6SN7 tubes?!


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> Are you saying I do not really need the 6th and 7th set of rare NOS GE 6SN7 tubes?!



I kind of doubt that GE 6SN7 are ever going to be rare. lol


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> I kind of doubt that GE 6SN7 are ever going to be rare. lol


I kind of doubt anybody really like them... hence the smirk in my previous post


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Ya'll keep hating on GE tubes, I will be laughing all the way to the sonic promised land when these arrive in a few days


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ya'll keep hating on GE tubes, I will be laughing all the way to the sonic promised land when these arrive in a few days



Oh, if you are talking about GE tubes before the consent degree of 1932, that's a whole other story. The GE and Westinghouse type 27's I have are really good.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> Oh, if you are talking about GE tubes before the consent degree of 1932, that's a whole other story. The GE and Westinghouse type 27's I have are really good.



These are from 1939


----------



## Zachik

well... as discussed before - even GE had a few good tubes. 
Definitely NOT the 6SN7 (and that is the reason I used them in my sarcastic / humorous comment about having 6-7 spares for them...)


----------



## mordy

As mentioned, there isn't much love for GE tubes, but there are always exceptions to every rule. Personally, I have found the early 6C5 metal tubes from the late 30's - early 40's from GE sounding very nice, as well as later 5687 tubes from the 50-60s.


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> These are from 1939



I missed that, but still, your VT-51's were manufactured in a factory designed and constructed by GE in Schenectady, as were my 27's. Schenectady was headquarters and the primary R&D center. Whereas later GE production is a strange hybrid of Ken-Rad and GE which isn't nearly as good to my ears, at least.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> I missed that, but still, your VT-51's were manufactured in a factory designed and constructed by GE in Schenectady, as were my 27's. Schenectady was headquarters and the primary R&D center. Whereas later GE production is a strange hybrid of Ken-Rad and GE which isn't nearly as good to my ears, at least.



Thanks for the info, the internal construction screams quality so I had no doubts, but good to know they are from the Schenectady factory.  I never met a globe I did not like


----------



## gibosi (Feb 7, 2021)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks for the info, the internal construction screams quality so I had no doubts, but good to know they are from the Schenectady factory.  I never met a globe I did not like



After the consent decree, GE had no use for high volume factories as they could handle the diminished demand from Schenectady. A number of their high volume factories, such as Nela Park in Cleveland, reverted back to the manufacture of light bulbs, as they were prior to 1920. And GE's Harrison, NJ plant was given to RCA, lock, stock and barrel, becoming RCA's very first factory. So early RCA tubes from the 1930's are essentially GE-made. And one of the reasons I like the RCA 76 from the mid-1930's is that they remind me of the old GE 27's from the late 1920's, plus they are quieter.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> After the consent decree, GE had no use for high volume factories as they could handle the diminished demand from Schenectady. A number of their high volume factories, such as Nela Park in Cleveland, reverted back to the manufacture of light bulbs, as they were prior to 1920. And GE's Harrison, NJ plant was given to RCA, lock, stock and barrel, becoming RCA's very first factory. So early RCA tubes from the 1930's are essentially GE-made. And one of the reasons I like the RCA 76 from the mid-1930's is that they remind me of the old GE 27's from the late 1920's, plus they are quieter.


I find the RCA tubes from the late 30’s and early to mid 40’s very nice sounding tubes. Were they all from the Harrison factory?


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Feb 7, 2021)

mordy said:


> Question: If you took two tubes from this lot, one measuring 2050 and the other the 1150 tube, would you be able to hear a difference?
> I am not asking about how ethical it is to sell a sub standard measuring tube as a perfect, new one - of course this is wrong. But from a practical perspective, is there an audible difference between these two?
> Obviously the sub measuring tube would not last as long as the others, but on the other hand I personally change tubes so often that I cannot remember wearing out a tube from use. There are people on this forum who have used the same tube for 10 years and more and there is still life left in those tubes.
> I am in no way defending selling poor measuring tubes as new, but I am curious about the answer to my question since I do not have a tester and cannot ascertain NOS status or not.



As LG mentioned, a strong tube / weak tube scenario could very well present as a channel volume imbalance depending on the amp, but I'd also like to add that in the event of a relatively well matched pair where *both* happen to be weak it's entirely possible these tubes will still sound good and give some meaningful service life.  This is also amp dependant because the operating poitns will affect the behavior of the tubes quite a bit.  Pushed hard they may cry uncle but in an amp where they are operated conservatively you may get years of use out of them still.  Generally speaking when a tube is truly becoming weak you'll be able to hear without needing to see test results.  The sound will become soft and you'll get distortion in the bass transients.


----------



## Xcalibur255

This whole conversation has got me to thinking that there is a ripe opportunity to Kickstarter an affordable modern and modular tube tester.  The curve tracers are very cool but most of us don't need that level of functionality.  Something simpler that you can plug into your PC that does basic testing and is actually affordable would probably be pretty popular and well received.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I find the RCA tubes from the late 30’s and early to mid 40’s very nice sounding tubes. Were they all from the Harrison factory?



I can't say...  But it seems to me that we should be able to find a list of RCA factories and the dates they came online, and this might help to answer your question. But it's late and I'm going to bed now, so it will have to wait until another day.....


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I can't say...  But it seems to me that we should be able to find a list of RCA factories and the dates they came online, and this might help to answer your question. But it's late and I'm going to bed now, so it will have to wait until another day.....


Thanks


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> This whole conversation has got me to thinking that there is a ripe opportunity to Kickstarter an affordable modern and modular tube tester.  The curve tracers are very cool but most of us don't need that level of functionality.  Something simpler that you can plug into your PC that does basic testing and is actually affordable would probably be pretty popular and well received.


I will be the first one to join the KS campaign!


----------



## Smallpie

When I use a 12au7 to 6SN7 adapter I use a 6volt switch correct? I’m reading under the GOTL tube Sheet and the pick between 6 and 12 volt is based on the exact adapter and not the tube being used. Under the info part it explains to use a 6 volt. I am making sure that is correct also with my 12J5 to 6SN7 dual adapter. I use the 6 volt correct too. I’ve read both ways online but the GOTL sheet seems to lean towards the adapter or does either way not matter?


----------



## mordy

Akiravelvet said:


> When I use a 12au7 to 6SN7 adapter I use a 6volt switch correct? I’m reading under the GOTL tube Sheet and the pick between 6 and 12 volt is based on the exact adapter and not the tube being used. Under the info part it explains to use a 6 volt. I am making sure that is correct also with my 12J5 to 6SN7 dual adapter. I use the 6 volt correct too. I’ve read both ways online but the GOTL sheet seems to lean towards the adapter or does either way not matter?


Many 9pin tubes in the 12something family can be used both at 6 and 12V and it depends both on the tube and the adapter. You have to be careful of not making a mistake- I lost a tube recently because I used 12V instead of 6V.
The octal base 12J5 need to be used with the 12V setting - I am not aware of any octal tubes that can be run on both 6V and 12V.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Many 9pin tubes in the 12something family can be used both at 6 and 12V and it depends both on the tube and the adapter.


I wonder if the 12AU7 sounds significantly different on 12V vs. 6V...
Only used these on the Massdrop (now Drop) Liquid Platinum, which can use 12AU7 with adapters (to 6922), obviously in 6V mode in that case.
Maybe I should get a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter... @mordy - do you know if same adapter (i.e. same pin-out) for 6V and 12V operation?


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> I wonder if the 12AU7 sounds significantly different on 12V vs. 6V...
> Only used these on the Massdrop (now Drop) Liquid Platinum, which can use 12AU7 with adapters (to 6922), obviously in 6V mode in that case.
> Maybe I should get a 12AU7 to 6SN7 adapter... @mordy - do you know if same adapter (i.e. same pin-out) for 6V and 12V operation?


12AU7:

*Filament* 6.3 Volts / If 0.3 Ampere *Description* 12AU7 Centre-tapped heater permits operation at 12.6V 0.15
My guess is that it sounds the same. All I can tell you is that when I mistakenly used the 12AU7 with 12V in an adapter designed for 6V I got a very bright tube glow that did not last very long until the tube burned out. For the hour or so that the tube lasted I did not notice any difference in sound.
The pinout is the same, but the wiring must be different for 6 or 12 volt operation.  

What happened to your experiment with the two tubes that measure very different?
Personally, I have tried tubes of the same kind with different measurements (by the seller) and could not hear a difference. A few times I received a dual triode where one channel was noticeable weaker than the other, but even that could be compensated by using the balance control.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> What happened to your experiment with the two tubes that measure very different?


Never got to it yesterday, so HOPE to get to it today. Too many balls in the air...


----------



## Smallpie

mordy said:


> Many 9pin tubes in the 12something family can be used both at 6 and 12V and it depends both on the tube and the adapter. You have to be careful of not making a mistake- I lost a tube recently because I used 12V instead of 6V.
> The octal base 12J5 need to be used with the 12V setting - I am not aware of any octal tubes that can be run on both 6V and 12V.


why does the tube compatibility sheet say to switch the voltage based on the adapter? 
"

6.3 & 12.6 volt Driver12AT7 to 6SN7 (6v) or 12SN7 (12v) adapter12AU7 & 12AT7 use same adapters. Operate at 6v or 12v (depending on adapter used).


Some people say to use the 12 voltage for the 12J5 to 6SN7 (go by the tube voltage and not the adapter voltage)but isn't the adapter switching it into a 6 volt compatibility? since I am using a 6SN7 adapter that the amp needs to be switched to 6 volt? (like in the above example where it tells you to switch the amp voltage based on the adapter)

should I instead get a 12J5 to 12SN7 adapter or is the 12SN7 and 6SN7 adapters built the exact same?


----------



## Smallpie

mordy said:


> 12AU7:
> 
> *Filament*6.3 Volts / If 0.3 Ampere*Description*12AU7 Centre-tapped heater permits operation at 12.6V 0.15
> My guess is that it sounds the same. All I can tell you is that when I mistakenly used the 12AU7 with 12V in an adapter designed for 6V I got a very bright tube glow that did not last very long until the tube burned out. For the hour or so that the tube lasted I did not notice any difference in sound.
> ...




So what your saying is with your 12AU7 to 6922 you should of switched your amp to 6 volts aligning with the 6922 adapter and not the 12au7 tubes 12 voltage?


----------



## gibosi (Feb 8, 2021)

Akiravelvet said:


> why does the tube compatibility sheet say to switch the voltage based on the adapter?
> "
> 
> 6.3 & 12.6 volt Driver12AT7 to 6SN7 (6v) or 12SN7 (12v) adapter12AU7 & 12AT7 use same adapters. Operate at 6v or 12v (depending on adapter used).
> ...



Octal tubes cannot be switched between 6 and 12 volt. So in the case of a 12J5 to 6SN7, match the voltage switch to the tube.

On the other hand, some 9 pin tubes can be run as either as a 6 volt or a 12 volt tube, depending on how pin 9 is configured. And in this case you have to read the vendors description closely. If the vendor says the adapter will allow you to run a 12AU7 in a 6922 socket, it is necessary to match the voltage switch to the adapter. The 6922 cannot be configured to run as a 12 volt tube, so pin 9 will be configured properly in the the adapter to run the 12AU7 as a 6 volt tube.

And in the same way, if the adapter allows you to run a 12AU7 in a 6SN7 socket, match the voltage switch to the adapter.

But yes, this can be confusing.


----------



## mordy

Akiravelvet said:


> So what your saying is with your 12AU7 to 6922 you should of switched your amp to 6 volts aligning with the 6922 adapter and not the 12au7 tubes 12 voltage?


The 12AU7 tube can be used either for 6V OR 12V; in other words, the tube is made to run on two different voltages depending on how the socket is wired. The adapter does not switch the voltage to 6V or 12V. Either it is wired to be used for 6V or for 12V but the voltage comes from the amplifier. Some amps have a voltage switch so that you can switch from 6 to 12V.
The adapter you use for 12AU7 to 6SN7 has to be made for either 6V or 12V - you have to decide what you like. The most logical is to choose 6V since most tubes you use have this voltage. (If you plug in a 6V tube into 12V you will risk damaging the tube).
The 6922 tube is not dual voltage and can only be used with 6V.

The 12J5 tube is a 12V triode. The 6SN7 (or 12SN7) is a dual triode; in other words two triodes combined into one envelope. To us the 12J5 tube instead of the 6SN7 you need two 12J5 in a special adapter that allows each 12J5 to be used for the right and left channel in the adapter. Then you need an amp or external power source that gives you 12V.
The pinout on the 6SN7 and 12SN7 is the same but the voltage is different. You can plug in a 12SN7 in 6SN7 socket but you need an amp that can change the voltage to 12V.


----------



## mordy (Feb 8, 2021)

gibosi said:


> Octal tubes cannot be switched between 6 and 12 volt. So in the case of a 12J5 to 6SN7, match the voltage switch to the tube. And in the same way, if the adapter allows you to run a 12AU7 in a 6SN7 socket, match the voltage switch to the tube.
> 
> On the other hand, some 9 pin tubes can be run as either as a 6 volt or a 12 volt tube, depending on how pin 9 is configured. And in this case you have to read the vendors description closely. If the vendor says the adapter will allow you to run a 12AU7 in a 6922 socket, it is necessary to match the voltage switch to the adapter. The 6922 cannot be configured to run as a 12 volt tube, so pin 9 will be configured properly in the the adapter to run the 12AU7 as a 6 volt tube.
> 
> But yes, this can be confusing.


_"if the adapter allows you to run a 12AU7 in a 6SN7 socket, match the voltage switch to the tube."_
This is where I tripped up. The 12AU7 can be used as a 12V or 6V tube. I did not realize that my adapter was wired for 6V and when I put in the 12AU7 and switched the amp to 12V I burned out the tube.
In other words, my personal experience has been that you need to match up the 12AU7 tube to the adapter that you are using and not the 12V tube designation.
Maybe we are saying the same thing using different words?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> _"if the adapter allows you to run a 12AU7 in a 6SN7 socket, match the voltage switch to the tube."_
> This is where I tripped up. The 12AU7 can be used as a 12V or 6V tube. I did not realize that my adapter was wired for 6V and when I put in the 12AU7 and switched the amp to 12V I burned out the tube.
> In other words, my personal experience has been that you need to match up the 12AU7 tube to the adapter that you are using and not the 12V tube designation.
> Maybe we are saying the same thing using different words?



No you are correct. And I caught my error and corrected it.


----------



## Smallpie

Ok, I think I have it as the 9 pin and octal are not the same. I was thinking of this stuff universally. I agree that can get a bit confusing and will need to reference this until I can confidently remember.

My GOTL has a voltage switch 6/12/25 and I also have the 6J5 to 6SN7 dual adapter but it’s adapter part only attached by the wires and not sturdy so I’m getting @Deyan 
To build me a more sturdier one. He sent pictures of his adapter it it looks awesome!


----------



## gibosi

Akiravelvet said:


> Ok, I think I have it as the 9 pin and octal are not the same. I was thinking of this stuff universally. I agree that can get a bit confusing and will need to reference this until I can confidently remember.
> 
> My GOTL has a voltage switch 6/12/25 and I also have the 6J5 to 6SN7 dual adapter but it’s adapter part only attached by the wires and not sturdy so I’m getting @Deyan
> To build me a more sturdier one. He sent pictures of his adapter it it looks awesome!



If your current adapter isn't too flimsy, you can set the voltage to 12 volts and run your 12J5. Again, voltage matches the tube.


----------



## Smallpie (Feb 8, 2021)

gibosi said:


> If your current adapter isn't too flimsy, you can set the voltage to 12 volts and run your 12J5. Again, voltage matches the tube.



****EDIT: Just talked to someone and he said there is no difference at all between the adapters:  12J5 to 12SN7 and the 6J5 to 6SN7.

I can’t use the 12J5 in that adapter? Damn!! the previous owner used it with the 12J5 tube and switched the amp to 12v. 

What happens when that is done? Will it not sound great? Seems like I will need to get deyan to make a 12J5 dual to 12SN7.


----------



## gibosi

Yes you can use the 6SN7 adapter that you have. But of course, the build quality of Deyan's adapter is much better. But for now, you can use your 12J5 with the 6SN7 adapter you have and set the amp for 12 volts. Enjoy/


----------



## Smallpie

gibosi said:


> Yes you can use the 6SN7 adapter that you have. But of course, the build quality of Deyan's adapter is much better. But for now, you can use your 12J5 with the 6SN7 adapter you have and set the amp for 12 volts. Enjoy/



Sorry about that as I read your previous message totally wrong. 
“ If your current adapter isn't too flimsy, you can set the voltage to 12 volts and run your 12J5. Again, voltage matches the tube.”

For some reason I thought you were referring to doing something inside the adapter and not referring to the voltage switch on the amp. I need to read stuff better while I’m not multitasking with other stuff. 😂


----------



## Zachik (Feb 8, 2021)

mordy said:


> What happened to your experiment with the two tubes that measure very different?


OK - tested the "pair" consisting of 1600 & 1150 tested 6C5 tubes on my GOTL with 2x6J5 to 6SN7 adapter (from Deyan).
After 15 minutes, I have swapped them and tried for another 10 minutes.
Bottom line: *I could not hear any noticeable channel imbalance!*
Personally, I am surprised. Does that means that in real-life scenarios, tubes can be useful long after they dip below their "minimum good" level? and that "matched pairs" are not really important at all?!  
(tested with my HD600, BTW)

Edit: quick reminder that on my tester - 2000 is NOS, and 1300 is minimum good for 6C5 tubes.


----------



## GDuss

Zachik said:


> OK - tested the "pair" consisting of 1600 & 1150 tested 6C5 tubes on my GOTL with 2x6J5 to 6SN7 adapter (from Deyan).
> After 15 minutes, I have swapped them and tried for another 10 minutes.
> Bottom line: *I could not hear any noticeable channel imbalance!*
> Personally, I am surprised. Does that means that in real-life scenarios, tubes can be useful long after they dip below their "minimum good" level? and that "matched pairs" are not really important at all?!
> ...



Maybe a channel imbalance is more obvious if it is the power tubes that have different measurements?


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> OK - tested the "pair" consisting of 1600 & 1150 tested 6C5 tubes on my GOTL with 2x6J5 to 6SN7 adapter (from Deyan).
> After 15 minutes, I have swapped them and tried for another 10 minutes.
> Bottom line: *I could not hear any noticeable channel imbalance!*
> Personally, I am surprised. Does that means that in real-life scenarios, tubes can be useful long after they dip below their "minimum good" level? and that "matched pairs" are not really important at all?!
> ...



In my experience, yes, in real life measurements rarely matter.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> OK - tested the "pair" consisting of 1600 & 1150 tested 6C5 tubes on my GOTL with 2x6J5 to 6SN7 adapter (from Deyan).
> After 15 minutes, I have swapped them and tried for another 10 minutes.
> Bottom line: *I could not hear any noticeable channel imbalance!*
> Personally, I am surprised. Does that means that in real-life scenarios, tubes can be useful long after they dip below their "minimum good" level? and that "matched pairs" are not really important at all?!
> ...


Well, your experience matches my personal impressions from rolling a fair amount of tubes.

_Does that means that in real-life scenarios, tubes can be useful long after they dip below their "minimum good" level? _*IMHO YES*
_Matched pairs are not really important at all?_ *IMHO this is true. *During the tube era a 10% manufacturing difference was considered perfectly acceptable.


----------



## Zachik

GDuss said:


> Maybe a channel imbalance is more obvious if it is the power tubes that have different measurements?


Maybe - I honestly don't know... 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> During the tube era a 10% manufacturing difference was considered perfectly acceptable.


I understand, but the "pair" that I tested had approx. 30% difference.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 9, 2021)

Zachik said:


> OK - tested the "pair" consisting of 1600 & 1150 tested 6C5 tubes on my GOTL with 2x6J5 to 6SN7 adapter (from Deyan).
> After 15 minutes, I have swapped them and tried for another 10 minutes.
> Bottom line: *I could not hear any noticeable channel imbalance!*
> Personally, I am surprised. Does that means that in real-life scenarios, tubes can be useful long after they dip below their "minimum good" level? and that "matched pairs" are not really important at all?!
> ...



Not sure how long they can be used when way below their minimum good level......but tubes that test pretty good but not NOS will last a long time.
I have never felt I had to use a matched set of tubes in my OTL amp. Tubes last way longer than most people believe they do.
Use the tubes and enjoy.


----------



## tubebuyer2020

I assume that channel imbalance is not important if the amplifier can be biased or is auto-biased?


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Feb 9, 2021)

Zachik said:


> OK - tested the "pair" consisting of 1600 & 1150 tested 6C5 tubes on my GOTL with 2x6J5 to 6SN7 adapter (from Deyan).
> After 15 minutes, I have swapped them and tried for another 10 minutes.
> Bottom line: *I could not hear any noticeable channel imbalance!*
> Personally, I am surprised. Does that means that in real-life scenarios, tubes can be useful long after they dip below their "minimum good" level? and that "matched pairs" are not really important at all?!
> ...


There are some circuit designs where this matters and you would get a channel imbalance.  It's said often, but it's true: it's amp dependent.    I think generally designers do go out of their way to use designs that don't have limitations like this because they know it'll just cause issues for the user.


----------



## pippen99 (Feb 9, 2021)

Need some help.  You guys are the most knowledgeable about tubes anywhere.  My Tak 274B arced itself out of existence Sunday.  I have a wanted ad in the for sale forums.  I have been offered a 50's grey plate WE 422A for $500.  Purported to be NOS 4 years ago with about 200 hours of usage since then.  Is this thing real or to good to be true.  PM if you prefer to answer that way.  Seller has no tester so no measurements.









4


----------



## gibosi

pippen99 said:


> Need some help.  You guys are the most knowledgeable about tubes anywhere.  My Tak 274B arced itself out of existence Sunday.  I have a wanted ad in the for sale forums.  I have been offered a 50's grey plate WE 422A for $500.  Purported to be NOS 4 years ago with about 200 hours of usage since then.  Is this thing real or to good to be true.  PM if you prefer to answer that way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It looks real to me. That said, I can't say if $500 is a good deal.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

When it comes to a channel imbalance, there has to be a large enough difference in gain between the two tubes for it to be detectable.  Shouldn't matter if it is a preamp or output tube, only that the total difference in gain between the two channels is large enough to be detected by ear.  How large a difference does it have to be?  We could do an experiment to find out  the only time having matched sections is truly critical is when two tubes are being run in parallel so they share the load equally.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> How large a difference does it have to be? We could do an experiment to find out


30% difference between the 2 driver tubes doesn't seem to make a difference. I did swap them and still no difference - so if the output tubes were "compensating", swapping the driver tubes should have revealed that!
That is on the GOTL. As @Xcalibur255 wrote - could behave differently on other amps... 



L0rdGwyn said:


> the only time having matched sections is truly critical is when two tubes are being run in parallel so they share the load equally.


Would that be the scenario with multiple pairs (i.e. quad or 6-pack) on GOTL output tubes??


----------



## mordy

pippen99 said:


> Need some help.  You guys are the most knowledgeable about tubes anywhere.  My Tak 274B arced itself out of existence Sunday.  I have a wanted ad in the for sale forums.  I have been offered a 50's grey plate WE 422A for $500.  Purported to be NOS 4 years ago with about 200 hours of usage since then.  Is this thing real or to good to be true.  PM if you prefer to answer that way.  Seller has no tester so no measurements.


In order to ascertain the *market* value of a tube I have a simple method - I look up on eBay what the same item is being sold for in current auctions, and, more importantly, how much such an item sold for in the past sixty days.
After typing in the item on eBay, look for the correct item, and then scroll down on the left and click on SOLD ITEMS. A page comes up with the purchase prices for the past 60 days. (All prices quoted by me INCLUDE shipping that could vary a lot.) 
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
There were only two WE 422A tubes sold recently. One sold for $554.- and one for $630.-
There are three current offerings of pairs only. All the tubes advertised are used:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=WE+422A+tube&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc
Two pairs are from Japan for $1630.- and $1741.- 
A third pair is sold for parts for $283.- or best offer. Here is the reason why the price is so low:
*SOLD AS IS, both tubes have 1 good section and 1 section testes weak on the questionable area.*

Based on the above the price on the tube you have been offered seems to be in the ballpark but you have to make the decision based on the information given you.


----------



## pippen99

Thanks.  Wish there was some measurements.


----------



## mordy

pippen99 said:


> Thanks.  Wish there was some measurements.


Just for fun I did a search on Google for the WE422A and only found one more used tube from Japan for around $900.- Looks like a difficult item to find.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> 30% difference between the 2 driver tubes doesn't seem to make a difference. I did swap them and still no difference - so if the output tubes were "compensating", swapping the driver tubes should have revealed that!
> That is on the GOTL. As @Xcalibur255 wrote - could behave differently on other amps...



So it's a little more complicated than that.  What you measured is Gm (transconductance).  The tube constant that directly indicates voltage gain is Mu (amplification factor).  The three tube constants are related by the equation:

Mu = Gm x Rp

So, we can infer differences in Mu by measuring Gm and assuming Rp is constant (it is roughly but very much depends on the operating point), but we don't really know what Mu is without measuring it directly.  Even more importantly, we don't know what Mu is at the operating point in the GOTL.  The only way to know what the difference in voltage gain is exactly between the two tubes would be to measure them at the static operating points where they are biased in the GOTL.

Here is an example of what I mean, I could probably come up with a more drastic example but this is what I have on hand, curves traced for two sections of a 6BX7.  



There is a 17% difference in Gm while there is only a 10% difference in Mu.  In terms of audible difference in voltage gain...

dB = 20log(10.1/9.1) = 0.9dB

So while there is a 17% difference in Gm, there would be less than 1dB audible difference in voltage gain between the two sections of the 6BX7.

Now, with all of that being said, if we assume Rp is truly constant with the measured 6C5, then there really would be a 28% difference in Mu.  That would correlate to a difference of 2.86dB between the two channels assuming everything else was well-matched in terms of voltage gain.  Now I would think you would hear that, which makes me think the difference in Mu is not as high as 28%.

Here is a little article that briefly sums up the tube constants and how they apply to tube testing: http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/tubmatdem.html



Zachik said:


> Would that be the scenario with multiple pairs (i.e. quad or 6-pack) on GOTL output tubes??



I'll have to get back to you on that, I haven't thought about how mismatched sections would affect a parallel SRPP circuit!


----------



## gibosi (Feb 9, 2021)

pippen99 said:


> Thanks.  Wish there was some measurements.



Rectifiers are very simple devices and they typically have a long lifetime, often as much as 10,000 hours.  And do you know why the seller wants to sell? If it was working fine in his amp it is probably fine. And if the seller is willing to take it back if it doesn't work in your amp, and you are comfortable with the price, I think the risk is small and I suggest you go for it.


----------



## pippen99

We are discussing a DOA guarantee right now.  I asked about a WE box since it was NOS but he said it came in a generic box.  If he won't agree to take it back if DOA I will decline.


----------



## pippen99

Pulled the trigger on the WE 422A.  Think I will leave the ad up until it gets here.  Who knows if something else interesting might pop-up.  Thanks all for your help!


----------



## whirlwind

pippen99 said:


> Pulled the trigger on the WE 422A.  Think I will leave the ad up until it gets here.  Who knows if something else interesting might pop-up.  Thanks all for your help!



This is supposedly one of the best rectifier tubes....they seemed to have jumped up in price quite a bit over the last couple of years when I was searching for one. I never did get one as I was a little uncomfortable with the tubes that I was looking at and the price. I have never heard one.

Congrats on the purchase


----------



## Xcalibur255

L0rdGwyn said:


> When it comes to a channel imbalance, there has to be a large enough difference in gain between the two tubes for it to be detectable.  Shouldn't matter if it is a preamp or output tube, only that the total difference in gain between the two channels is large enough to be detected by ear.  How large a difference does it have to be?  We could do an experiment to find out  the only time having matched sections is truly critical is when two tubes are being run in parallel so they share the load equally.


Yeah, this is why testers like the Amplitrex are so great, because they actually measure and report the gain.  Whenever I'm browsing tube pairs from sellers that have an Amplitrex I'm not paying attention to the whether the Gm or emission matches I'm paying attention to Mu and plate current.

We need an affordable Amplitrex for the masses.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've always found it fascinating that the 422A has the same plates as a 5998 when the tubes have somewhat dissimilar functions.  Makes me wonder what the physical shape of the anode plates contributes to design function.  I've mused on this in the past too (ladder vs. round plate) but answers to these questions of curiosity are few and far between.


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> We need an affordable Amplitrex for the masses.


Agreed!!


----------



## gibosi

If the Amplitrex can be used to measure European tubes as well as US, then for sure, if it's affordable, I would get one.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> If the Amplitrex can be used to measure European tubes as well as US, then for sure, if it's affordable, I would get one.


Personally, I would not call "$2,700 + shipping" affordable. But that's me...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

One option is the uTracer, sort of a lightweight version of the eTracer, it is a DIY kit but it isn't clear to me if it can test for shorts, gas, etc.  Many people in the DIY world are using the uTracer with good success.  Since it is a curve tracer, it will provide all of the tube constants.

For those that are not averse to some DIY, it is an affordable option.

https://www.dos4ever.com/uTracer3/uTracer3_pag0.html


----------



## chrisdrop

No better place to make my 1000th post on head-fi...

I imagine most of those 1k posts have been here, on this thread. Here especially, I've received infinitely more wisdom than I've given, more patience than I've deserved, listened more ... OK, bought waaaayyy more tubes than I'dve guessed (or is sane) ... and enjoyed every bit...

So - thanks all.


----------



## Smallpie

How can I use a solid state reaction my tube rectifier socket? Any suggestions and is it worth it to try?


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> No better place to make my 1000th post on head-fi...


Congrats buddy


----------



## mordy

Akiravelvet said:


> How can I use a solid state reaction my tube rectifier socket? Any suggestions and is it worth it to try?


You can get a solid state Hexfred rectifier and plug it in into the regular rectifier tube socket.
My GOTL does not have a rectifier tube socket but a built in Hexfred instead.
From what I have read people with the tube rectifier option prefer to stay with rectifier tubes and do not use the plug in solid state rectifier.
On the other side, the tube rectifier uses more current than a solid state rectifier so if you use a ss rectifier you can use more tube combinations that draw more current.
The amp transformer has a certain current capacity that should not be exceeded by adding up the current draw of the individual tubes.
For the GOTL the limit is 13A (Lundahl transformer); less with a tube rectifier .


----------



## Smallpie

mordy said:


> You can get a solid state Hexfred rectifier and plug it in into the regular rectifier tube socket.
> My GOTL does not have a rectifier tube socket but a built in Hexfred instead.
> From what I have read people with the tube rectifier option prefer to stay with rectifier tubes and do not use the plug in solid state rectifier.
> On the other side, the tube rectifier uses more current than a solid state rectifier so if you use a ss rectifier you can use more tube combinations that draw more current.
> ...


Thanks for the info
Also, My GOTL has a bigger transformer than stock too. Meant for 6336B tubes


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> From what I have read people with the tube rectifier option prefer to stay with rectifier tubes and do not use the plug in solid state rectifier.


I have a rectifier tube socket, but use HEXFRED plugged-in...


----------



## mordy

Akiravelvet said:


> Thanks for the info
> Also, My GOTL has a bigger transformer than stock too. Meant for 6336B tubes


I think all the GOTL amps can use one pair of the 5A 6336 tubes. That leaves you with 3A for the other tubes, but with a rectifier less than that is available.


----------



## gibosi

Akiravelvet said:


> Thanks for the info
> Also, My GOTL has a bigger transformer than stock too. Meant for 6336B tubes



I think you have the American transformer, same as I do, and it is about 17A total. One 5 volt, 5A winding for the rectifier and one 6.3 volt, 12A winding for the driver and power tubes.

And as others have mentioned, you can plug a solid state rectifier into the GOTL. When Glenn gets some time, he can build one for you. Some prefer the solid state HEXFRED and some prefer tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> You can get a solid state Hexfred rectifier and plug it in into the regular rectifier tube socket.
> My GOTL does not have a rectifier tube socket but a built in Hexfred instead.
> From what I have read people with the tube rectifier option prefer to stay with rectifier tubes and do not use the plug in solid state rectifier.
> On the other side, the tube rectifier uses more current than a solid state rectifier so if you use a ss rectifier you can use more tube combinations that draw more current.
> ...



Except me, but everybody knows I'm weird.  

Actually I was thinking about putting tube rectifiers in the 45 when I hooked it back up.  It would be the first time in more than 5 years.  I'm sure they'll just start making that horrible high pitch whine they make and immediately remind me why I don't do this, but who knows........


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> I think all the GOTL amps can use one pair of the 5A 6336 tubes. That leaves you with 3A for the other tubes, but with a rectifier less than that is available.


If you have an old style GOTL with the original transformer then 6336 tubes are very marginal and do push the limits of the transformer.  I talked with Glenn at length about it a long time ago.  He felt it would be fine to try but not necessarily for long-term use.  This doesn't really apply to the majority of you folks, but it's the reason I bring it up every once in a while.  There are a handful of the oldest model variant out there including a couple that have been sold by their first owner and changed hands.  I don't want one of these to get slowly fried because the owner isn't aware.

This basically only applies to GOTL amps made between 2010-2012.  That style transformer went up in price and became harder to get and Glenn switched to a different style.  Around the same time he began getting requests to use the Lundahl too as a low hum option.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> I have a rectifier tube socket, but use HEXFRED plugged-in...



Shame on you!       J/K


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> It looks real to me. That said, I can't say if $500 is a good deal.


The tube is real. However, 4 years, 200 hrs. is questionable. How many hrs. on your  Tak 274B?


----------



## attmci (Feb 12, 2021)

pippen99 said:


> Thanks.  Wish there was some measurements.


I would purchase a CV378 or U52 for now. And wait for a good deal on NIB 422A later. The $500 could be the current market price for a 200-hr 422A. But for expensive tubes, I prefer to purchase NIB.


----------



## pippen99

It probably had about 1100 hours on it when it cooked itself.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> I think you have the American transformer, same as I do, and it is about 17A total. One 5 volt, 5A winding for the rectifier and one 6.3 volt, 12A winding for the driver and power tubes.
> 
> And as others have mentioned, you can plug a solid state rectifier into the GOTL. When Glenn gets some time, he can build one for you. Some prefer the solid state HEXFRED and some prefer tubes.


Then how can you use a 4V rectifier tube?


----------



## pippen99

I still have the option to purchase a KR 274B HP at a discount until the end of the month.  The WE 422A arrives Tuesday.


----------



## attmci

Xcalibur255 said:


> I've always found it fascinating that the 422A has the same plates as a 5998 when the tubes have somewhat dissimilar functions.  Makes me wonder what the physical shape of the anode plates contributes to design function.  I've mused on this in the past too (ladder vs. round plate) but answers to these questions of curiosity are few and far between.


I did put a 422a to power tube socket last week......................

Now I store my rectifier tubes and power tubes separately.


----------



## attmci

pippen99 said:


> I still have the option to purchase a KR 274B HP at a discount until the end of the month.  The WE 422A arrives Tuesday.


No worries. You will like it.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Then how can you use a 4V rectifier tube?



Glenn designed his OTL around the 3DG4 rectifier. And thus, there is also a 3.8V, 5A winding for this rectifier. And fortunately, 3.8V is very close to 4V, and all that is necessary is an adapter to reroute the pins in order to run 4V rectifiers.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Glenn designed his OTL around the 3DG4 rectifier. And thus, there is also a 3.8V, 5A winding for this rectifier. And fortunately, 3.8V is very close to 4V, and all that is necessary is an adapter to reroute the pins in order to run 4V rectifiers.



This is a fantastic feature of the amp


----------



## Zachik

You guys making me feel bad for using HEXFRED... Don't even remember if I ever bought any rectifier tube!


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> You guys making me feel bad for using HEXFRED... Don't even remember if I ever bought any rectifier tube!



Chasing after tube rectifiers is a very slippery and treacherous slope. lol  But I have no regrets.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> Chasing after tube rectifiers is a very slippery and treacherous slope. lol  But I have no regrets.


Same can be told for driver and for output tubes... 
I have been down some rabbit holes (and still am there). But hey - what's 1 more rabbit hole?


----------



## gibosi

That's the spirit!


----------



## Smallpie

I did some digging and actually my upgraded bigger transformer was for 
VR102/BL63 tube and not the 6336B

Has anybody tried the VR102/BL63 tube?
Why do you think the original owner asked for this?


----------



## Smallpie

Akiravelvet said:


> I did some digging and actually my upgraded bigger transformer was for
> VR102/BL63 tube and not the 6336B
> 
> Has anybody tried the VR102/BL63 tube?
> Why do you think the original owner asked for this?




Also was planning on repainting the transformer because of the rust. Does anybody have any suggestions? Could I pull the sides off and replace with new pieces or shave it down and repaint?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Akiravelvet said:


> Also was planning on repainting the transformer because of the rust. Does anybody have any suggestions? Could I pull the sides off and replace with new pieces or shave it down and repaint?



That's a One Electron BFT-1B power transformer.  One Electron is going out of business, but their products are still in stock many places.  You could buy a new transformer if it bothered you that much, otherwise you could remove the shrouds, strip the paint and / or sand them down, then repaint.


----------



## gibosi (Feb 13, 2021)

L0rdGwyn said:


> That's a One Electron BFT-1B power transformer.  One Electron is going out of business, but their products are still in stock many places.  You could buy a new transformer if it bothered you that much, otherwise you could remove the shrouds, strip the paint and / or sand them down, then repaint.



It looks slightly different than my transformer. Could this be the very early transformer that @Xcalibur255 recently warned about?


----------



## gibosi

Akiravelvet said:


> I did some digging and actually my upgraded bigger transformer was for
> VR102/BL63 tube and not the 6336B
> 
> Has anybody tried the VR102/BL63 tube?
> Why do you think the original owner asked for this?



I have used the VR102/BL63 as a driver. The heater is 1.3A, which doesn't require a bigger transformer, so I don't understand the reasoning of the original owner. Again, the 6336, at 5A, is the tube that requires a large transformer.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> It looks slightly different than my transformer. Could this be the very early transformer that @Xcalibur255 recently warned about?



As I recall, early on Glenn used the One Electron transformer, then later changed to a custom transformer from Heyboer, which is likely what you have @gibosi .


----------



## Smallpie

gibosi said:


> It looks slightly different than my transformer. Could this be the very early transformer that @Xcalibur255 recently warned about?


Warned in what way?


----------



## gibosi (Feb 13, 2021)

Akiravelvet said:


> Warned in what way?



If your amp was originally built around 2010-2012, running 6336 as output tubes continuously may damage the transformer.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2544#post-16174645

Edit: fixed an error: transformer, not rectifier.


----------



## Smallpie (Feb 13, 2021)

gibosi said:


> If your amp was originally built around 2010-2012, running 6336 as output tubes continuously may damage the transformer.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2544#post-16174645
> 
> Edit: fixed an error: transformer, not rectifier.


Does mine pertain to that? Even if it was built then (which I don’t know but it’s possible) I thought Glenn used a different transformer for my amp. So wouldn’t it be different from all the rest in whatever era it was built?

(This is the first one I’ve seen with this huge of a transformer on top)

Here is the original used sale post for mine:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-glenn-otl-amp.780844/


----------



## gibosi (Feb 13, 2021)

Akiravelvet said:


> Does mine pertain to that? Even if it was built then (which I don’t know but it’s possible) I thought Glenn used a different transformer for my amp. So wouldn’t it be different from all the rest in whatever era it was built?
> 
> (This is the first one I’ve seen with this huge of a transformer on top)



All the amps Glenn has built since at least 2015 can run a pair of 6336 and VR102/BL63 all day long.

I suspect that only Glenn, or perhaps @Xcalibur255, can verify if it is safe for you to run 6336 in your amp all day long.


----------



## Smallpie

Akiravelvet said:


> Does mine pertain to that? Even if it was built then (which I don’t know but it’s possible) I thought Glenn used a different transformer for my amp. So wouldn’t it be different from all the rest in whatever era it was built?
> 
> (This is the first one I’ve seen with this huge of a transformer on top)
> 
> ...



I found Glenn talking to one of the 3 previous owners @JoeIT 

He is talking about the bigger transformer


----------



## Smallpie

Akiravelvet said:


> I found Glenn talking to one of the 3 previous owners @JoeIT
> 
> He is talking about the bigger transformer


The previous owner was using dual adapters with 6080’s and Glenn says that the drivers are on a separate 6.3 volt winding. So that means it can deal with the 6336 right?


----------



## gibosi

Akiravelvet said:


> I found Glenn talking to one of the 3 previous owners @JoeIT
> 
> He is talking about the bigger transformer



In the end, I don't know... My amp can do this, but it was built in 2015 with a different transformer. 

So I thought I should make you aware of @Xcalibur255 's recent, cautionary post.


----------



## Zachik

GOTL with speaker taps... I do not think it was an option when I ordered my GOTL coupe years ago - I wonder if that is an option that was removed by Glenn due to switch to a different transformer?


----------



## Smallpie (Feb 13, 2021)

Zachik said:


> GOTL with speaker taps... I do not think it was an option when I ordered my GOTL coupe years ago - I wonder if that is an option that was removed by Glenn due to switch to a different transformer?


I tried the GOTL with my high efficiency speakers and it didn’t pan out well. I’ve used a LTA mz2 that puts out less than 1 watt into my speakers and it sounded fine not great but the GOTL did not work even close to as good. It clipped very quickly and produced  absolutely no bass. Maybe I can try next time with the 6336 tube? I tried it with a 6080 tube attached.

I wonder if using my ampsandsound speaker to headphone adapter box that using the speaker taps for a lower impedance headphone would be beneficial versus the regular speaker tap?


----------



## mordy

Akiravelvet said:


> I tried the GOTL with my high efficiency speakers and it didn’t pan out well. I’ve used a LTA mz2 that puts out less than 1 watt into my speakers and it sounded fine not great but the GOTL did not work even close to as good. It clipped very quickly and produced  absolutely no bass. Maybe I can try next time with the 6336 tube? I tried it with a 6080 tube attached.
> 
> I wonder if using my ampsandsound speaker to headphone adapter box that using the speaker taps for a lower impedance headphone would be beneficial versus the regular speaker tap?


I have a different headphone amp (SW51+) that has two headphone jacks - one for low impedance and one for high impedance. This headphone amp can be used as a preamp via headphone out. According to the designer the low impedance jack is better suited for speakers.


----------



## mordy

How does a pair of $4,300.00 drivers sound?





*A863 Z63 MARCONI VALVE 6J7G TUBE PAIR metal base VINTAGE PREAMP KTZ63 348A 6J7*
Price:
US $4,299.00
Well, let's find out:



My pair is the same Z63 but labeled Marconi/Osram. The Z63 is GEC speak for 6J7GT; the famous L63 is a triode version of this tube, and I am using the Z63 as a triode.
This tube is very musical, lively and energetic. In addition it reproduces the low frequencies very well and provides a large amount of detail in the low bass - same kind of experience as listening to a LCD-3 for the first time; you hear much more of what's going on in the low register.
Lest you think that I fell into the manyfees/herewegeagain/bangedup financial rabbithole, I paid much less than 0.5% of the asking price of the above referenced pair.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Feb 15, 2021)

gibosi said:


> It looks slightly different than my transformer. Could this be the very early transformer that @Xcalibur255 recently warned about?


Nope, the issue I was talking about pre-dates the use of that chassis.  I think he's in the clear for the 6336, but really Glenn is the authority not me.  By this point in time it would have made sense to cover the bases on 6336 usage because there was fairly widespread interest, but I myself didn't know that One Electron was one of the types of power transformers Glenn used at this period in time.  There's only one person here who has ALL the answers and it's the big man himself.


----------



## mordy

Last night, after using the Z63 tubes for around 12 hours, there was a pop and one of the tubes started to glow significantly brighter than before. I shut off the amp right away.
Does this very much increased brightness indicate that the tube is failing?
Is it dangerous to continue using it?


----------



## gibosi

I've never had that happen, so I have no idea what it means. But obviously, something has changed, and caution would be the best practice until you know more.

Good luck!


----------



## mordy

Thanks. The GOTL has some safety features but they are not activated when using adapters.


----------



## chrisdrop

mordy said:


> Thanks. The GOTL has some safety features but they are not activated when using adapters.


It sounds to me like the start of an arc. I could be wrong.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> The GOTL has some safety features but they are not activated when using adapters.


Can someone (hopefully @2359glenn himself) briefly (or in full nerdy details ) explain those safety features?  I am very curious!
Also, @mordy why do you think such features would stop working with adapters?  Most of them just match-up the tube pins with the socket pins, but do not change anything from the GOTL's point of view.


----------



## mordy (Feb 15, 2021)

Zachik said:


> Can someone (hopefully @2359glenn himself) briefly (or in full nerdy details ) explain those safety features?  I am very curious!
> Also, @mordy why do you think such features would stop working with adapters?  Most of them just match-up the tube pins with the socket pins, but do not change anything from the GOTL's point of view.


There is something built into the amp that if you insert a 6V tube into the chassis 6SN7 socket and the amp is set to 12V or 25V, the amp will not turn on. Don't know why, but Glenn told me that this feature does not work when adapters are used.
I once put in a 6V tube with an adapter in the 6SN7 socket with the amp mistakenly set at 12V. The blue halo that shows the power is on on the power button blinked once and then stayed on. I did not pay attention to the blink, and the tube burnt up. If I would not have used an adapter with the wrong voltage applied, the amp would not have turned on at all as a safety feature.
The amp also has a fuse to protect it. Don't know what activates the fuse protection, but I once had a fuse blow for no apparent reason, and after replacing the fuse the amp has been fine.
PS: I don't think socket savers matter, only adapters that reroute the pinout.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> It sounds to me like the start of an arc. I could be wrong.


Another day, another day of tube rolling. 
Switched adapters for the Z63 and plugged in both tubes again. The Osram tube is cold and does not light up. What I witnessed yesterday must have been the death throes of the 68 year old Z63. 
1953-2021. 
Getting a little nervous about the old GEC tubes - some time back I had another KTZ63 go bad on me as well but that one was ten years younger.
So what's left to do? The Z63 has to get along with the KTZ63 but they don't sound the same. The KTZ63 has a sharper tone and does not extend as deep into the bass. Maybe they will complement each other...



Still enjoyable to listen to but what is the Appearance Police going to say?


----------



## leftside

Maybe of interest to GLE3N owners:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/110...d-headphone-amps.919425/page-36#post-16180327


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> There is something built into the amp that if you insert a 6V tube into the chassis 6SN7 socket and the amp is set to 12V or 25V, the amp will not turn on. Don't know why, but Glenn told me that this feature does not work when adapters are used.
> I once put in a 6V tube with an adapter in the 6SN7 socket with the amp mistakenly set at 12V. The blue halo that shows the power is on on the power button blinked once and then stayed on. I did not pay attention to the blink, and the tube burnt up. If I would not have used an adapter with the wrong voltage applied, the amp would not have turned on at all as a safety feature.
> The amp also has a fuse to protect it. Don't know what activates the fuse protection, but I once had a fuse blow for no apparent reason, and after replacing the fuse the amp has been fine.
> PS: I don't think socket savers matter, only adapters that reroute the pinout.


Thanks @mordy 
I still hope to get a more technical explanation from @2359glenn (a.k.a. Da Man)


----------



## rnros

leftside said:


> Maybe of interest to GLE3N owners:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/110...d-headphone-amps.919425/page-36#post-16180327



Hi @leftside, thanks for post and pics on these tubes. Will look forward to your further impressions on these.
I had acquired the 4654 (metal base), 4689, & 4699 for my future GEL3N, pre-pandemic.
So still holding and waiting for world to return to normal. 
LOL Just had to do a quick (and careful) sound check as drivers in GOTL using EL3N adapters. 
Should be great rolling option for GEL3N.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Tried a new tube pairing in the GOTL for the first time in a long time.  RCA 6AS7G + Mullard ECC32.  I wasn't expecting this to sound good, I more or less tried it to rule it out as a good pairing actually, but through the DT880-600ohm this actually sounds really nice.  I wouldn't call it neutral by any means but the tonality is beautiful and it never puts a bad foot forward.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 18, 2021)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Tried a new tube pairing in the GOTL for the first time in a long time.  RCA 6AS7G + Mullard ECC32.  I wasn't expecting this to sound good, I more or less tried it to rule it out as a good pairing actually, but through the DT880-600ohm this actually sounds really nice.  I wouldn't call it neutral by any means but the tonality is beautiful and it never puts a bad foot forward.




I agree!  The tone is nice. I listen to the RCA 6AS7G fairly often, I like them and I have quite a few to pick from.  I pretty much like the RCA house sound, never too harsh, so I can play the music a little louder    That ECC32 makes everything sound good!
I like the RCA drivers too, and when I tried the 6BL7/6BX7, besides the Tung Sols I liked the RCA's the best.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> I agree!  The tone is nice. I listen to the RCA 6AS7G fairly often, I like them and I have quite a few to pick from.  I pretty much like the RCA house sound, never too harsh, so I can play the music a little louder    That ECC32 makes everything sound good!
> I like the RCA drivers too, and when I tried the 6BL7/6BX7, besides the Tung Sols I liked the RCA's the best.


I have several RCA 6AS7G but all of them have the getter flash on top. Saw somewhere that the older RCA 6AS7G with clear tops sound better - does anybody have experience with this?


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> I have several RCA 6AS7G but all of them have the getter flash on top. Saw somewhere that the older RCA 6AS7G with clear tops sound better - does anybody have experience with this?



Mine are all top getter also.


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> I agree!  The tone is nice. I listen to the RCA 6AS7G fairly often, I like them and I have quite a few to pick from.  I pretty much like the RCA house sound, never too harsh, so I can play the music a little louder    That ECC32 makes everything sound good!
> I like the RCA drivers too, and when I tried the 6BL7/6BX7, besides the Tung Sols I liked the RCA's the best.


I had abandoned the RCA many years ago because I couldn't find a pair that was quiet.  At one point or another I've given away or thrown away five pairs of them that were excessively noisy or microphonic.  Luckily this pair seems to be working out.  Driver matching with these and the Beyers can be tricky because they both have a similarly U shaped tonal balance, so the setup needs a little midrange lift but it has to be in *just* the right place to sound right.  I wasn't expecting the ECC32 to provide that but that's exactly what it did.  It also nicely elevates the resolution of the RCAs.  Every time I've tried this ECC32 in the past I have always found it to have a bit too much bite, but it's finally found its soulmate it seems.  

It's a good thing it turned out to be worth it when I pulled the BGRP TungSol.  Every time I touch that tube it becomes noisy and fussy for a while.  One of these days I'm afraid it won't settle down, so it's good that it was at least rolled out for a combo that's working out well.


----------



## Smallpie

What do you think about new production cv181? Those mallards are pricey


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> I have several RCA 6AS7G but all of them have the getter flash on top. Saw somewhere that the older RCA 6AS7G with clear tops sound better - does anybody have experience with this?


Mine are also top getter.  The clear tops seem to be quite a bit less common.  My gut says there would probably be no difference in sound between the two variants, but we all know the crazy things that can affect sound quality in this hobby so who knows.  If the clear tops came from a different factory or were built to a slightly different design that could certainly explain a difference if one does exist.

My advice would be, if you're looking for RCAs, is to find the JAN (joint army-navy) branded ones.  Your odds of getting quiet and well-behaved ones should be better with those.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Akiravelvet said:


> What do you think about new production cv181? Those mallards are pricey



The general advice I like to give whenever I see somebody considering the Psvane CV181 or other comparable new production 6SN7 types that are fairly pricey is to instead hunt down and try a pair of grey T-plate early 50's era TungSol 6SN7GT.  Basically the tube they call the "mouse ear TungSol" only it's missing the actual mouse ear shaped spacers.  These tubes can usually be bought quite cheaply and they sound great.  They're tonally balanced but have a somewhat modern or "hifi" sound to them like you would find in many new production tubes, and in most cases will beat the new production models in resolution for less money spent.  They are not as well kept a secret as they used to be, but still a great deal in the NOS tube world.

If you're willing to live with a tube that has a crack in its plastic base you can buy those VERY cheaply and there's nothing wrong with them.  A crack in the base doesn't affect the integrity of the glass.  For some reason cracked bases are very common in this particular type of tube and nobody wants them so it's great for bargain hunters.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> I had abandoned the RCA many years ago because I couldn't find a pair that was quiet.  At one point or another I've given away or thrown away five pairs of them that were excessively noisy or microphonic.  Luckily this pair seems to be working out.  Driver matching with these and the Beyers can be tricky because they both have a similarly U shaped tonal balance, so the setup needs a little midrange lift but it has to be in *just* the right place to sound right.  I wasn't expecting the ECC32 to provide that but that's exactly what it did.  It also nicely elevates the resolution of the RCAs.  Every time I've tried this ECC32 in the past I have always found it to have a bit too much bite, but it's finally found its soulmate it seems.
> 
> It's a good thing it turned out to be worth it when I pulled the BGRP TungSol.  Every time I touch that tube it becomes noisy and fussy for a while.  One of these days I'm afraid it won't settle down, so it's good that it was at least rolled out for a combo that's working out well.


It's funny that I have been burning in a new (unknown?) type of tube for a couple of days. Everything sounds great, except....for a harshness and metallic tinge to the upper mid range. Great bass and lower mid range, but the upper mid range grates on my nerves. Been racking my brains with what to match it with to tame that harshness. First the neutral Chatham 6AS7G, but did not work out. Now I tried a warm sounding tube, the Mullard 6080, but that did not help either. A little better, but not it.
Then you write about the RCA 6AS7G that they tamed the bite of the ECC32. Let's try it!
This pair is from 1953 with a great tube glow:




It sounds better now but too early to tell if that harshness has dissipated - a little time will tell.
The drivers will remain unknown until I decide if they are usable and buy up all the $5 tubes on the market lol....


----------



## leftside

rnros said:


> Hi @leftside, thanks for post and pics on these tubes. Will look forward to your further impressions on these.
> I had acquired the 4654 (metal base), 4689, & 4699 for my future GEL3N, pre-pandemic.
> So still holding and waiting for world to return to normal.
> LOL Just had to do a quick (and careful) sound check as drivers in GOTL using EL3N adapters.
> Should be great rolling option for GEL3N.


Well done. The 4654 are definitely easier to find than the 4689 and 4699, and cheaper. Also grab a pair of the ST 4654 if you can. Really enjoy these tubes in my DAC. Warm like EL3N and mids like EL34.


----------



## Xcalibur255

One thing I've always wondered is if my ECC32 is "representative" of the breed.  It was gifted to me by somebody years ago and has a *lot* of hours on it.  Almost the entire getter has burned off and re-deposited from the bottom to the top of the glass which suggests to me this tube has seen a couple thousand hours.  It doesn't sound soft in any way though, the bass has good control and pitch definition, at least within what the amp itself is generally capable of.  I just always found it to have an edge throughout the upper mids and low treble that I didn't care for and never really used it much.  I'm happy I can actually use this trusty old tube for something now.  I don't like it when things just sit around and don't have a purpose.


----------



## Smallpie (Feb 18, 2021)

mordy said:


> The drivers will remain unknown until I decide if they are usable and buy up all the $5 tubes on the market lol....


@mordy i thought we were family here? LOL

EDIT: (insert meme of @mordy holding a jug of water in the desert and the rest of the GOTL thread members dying of thirst gasping and trying to take it from him) LOL


----------



## mordy

Akiravelvet said:


> @mordy i thought we were family here? LOL


I"ll let you in on it soon - this par was made by AWV.


----------



## Zachik

Akiravelvet said:


> @mordy i thought we were family here? LOL


We are family here! Dysfunctional family that is...


----------



## Smallpie (Feb 18, 2021)

mordy said:


> I"ll let you in on it soon - this par was made by AWV.





Zachik said:


> We are family here! Dysfunctional family that is...


Maybe my humor is too dry & salty? Lol, Hopefully not but Will try to make it extra spicy next time. Haha

EDIT: there you go, I added some spicy ness to my original response!


----------



## whirlwind

Akiravelvet said:


> What do you think about new production cv181? Those mallards are pricey



You can buy some 6/12SN7 tubes for pretty cheap....RCA/Sylvania this will give you a couple of different tones for the GOTL....RCA a warmer sound....Sylvania a brighter sound and both have their place depending on what power tubes you use......all tubes sound great in GOTL...you don't have to break the bank....most people just decide to at some point.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> GOTL with speaker taps... I do not think it was an option when I ordered my GOTL coupe years ago - I wonder if that is an option that was removed by Glenn due to switch to a different transformer?





Akiravelvet said:


> I tried the GOTL with my high efficiency speakers and it didn’t pan out well. I’ve used a LTA mz2 that puts out less than 1 watt into my speakers and it sounded fine not great but the GOTL did not work even close to as good. It clipped very quickly and produced  absolutely no bass. Maybe I can try next time with the 6336 tube? I tried it with a 6080 tube attached.
> 
> I wonder if using my ampsandsound speaker to headphone adapter box that using the speaker taps for a lower impedance headphone would be beneficial versus the regular speaker tap?



My guess is someone requested it, the GOTL isn't really going to be able to drive speakers, the output impedance is too high as an OTL.  Also bass rolloff will be significant driving a low impedance load like an 8ohm speaker.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I thought only the EL3N models got the speaker tap option (and the 300B of course).  Glenn likes to give people what they want, but I'm still surprised he would put speaker outputs on an OTL.


----------



## Smallpie

Xcalibur255 said:


> I thought only the EL3N models got the speaker tap option (and the 300B of course).  Glenn likes to give people what they want, but I'm still surprised he would put speaker outputs on an OTL.


Yea, I have a speaker to headphone adapter box but since this is an OTL the speaker taps would not have a different impedance than the headphone output correct?


----------



## mordy

Drop (formerly Massdrop) just added their version of the Sennheiser HD800S to their offerings after selling more than 122.000 sets of their version of the Sennheiser HD650.
Curious to know what you think about it - for some reason they "tweaked" the 800S and the price is nowhere near the $220 for the HD650 - $1100:
https://drop.com/buy/drop-sennheise...ontent=1613726687980.017806606578172360644485


----------



## Smallpie

Does everybody think the HD800's go well with the GOTL? Ive been interested in them for while and idea of a HD8xx with an added bass boost sounds amazing!


----------



## mordy

Akiravelvet said:


> Yea, I have a speaker to headphone adapter box but since this is an OTL the speaker taps would not have a different impedance than the headphone output correct?


I am using my GOTL as a preamp every day. Line out (or headphone out) to a power amp to speakers.


----------



## Zachik

Akiravelvet said:


> Does everybody think the HD800's go well with the GOTL? Ive been interested in them for while and idea of a HD8xx with an added bass boost sounds amazing!


I think it does! The warmth added (with the right tubes) is a good complement to the too neutral HD800 (for my taste).


----------



## gibosi

Has anyone tried the HiFiMan HE6 SE V2 with the GOTL?


----------



## gibosi

Akiravelvet said:


> Does everybody think the HD800's go well with the GOTL? Ive been interested in them for while and idea of a HD8xx with an added bass boost sounds amazing!



From what I have seen, many here have the HD800's. And the ZMF line of headphones is always quite popular.

Unfortunately, I'm too poor to be able to own any of these. lol


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Has anyone tried the HiFiMan HE6 SE V2 with the GOTL?


Check the sensitivity .....

Frequency response 8Hz - 65KHz
Impedance 50 Ohms
*Sensitivity 83.5dB (!!!!!!)*


I used to own the original HE6. No amp or HP jack from my vintage receivers could drive it. I ended up getting a special cable made which was terminated in speaker wire. Plugged into the speaker taps of my 110w Kenwood Eleven GX....that could drive it.  

The HE6 is one of those rare birds that requires a special system built around it. Been there, done that, besides Verite Closed kicks its rear.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Check the sensitivity .....
> 
> Frequency response 8Hz - 65KHz
> Impedance 50 Ohms
> ...



And my wallet thanks you.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> And my wallet thanks you.


The price that Adorama is selling them for is fantastic, but unless you have an amp sitting around that puts out minimum 3-5watts into 50 ohms, id take a hard pass.

They also have highs that can be a bit fatiguing, but man that thing slams like a freight train when fed lots of power.


----------



## Monsterzero

@gibosi if you're itching for a HiFiMan planar you might look into finding an old HE500, which was originally more $$$ than the HE6 and easier to drive. Its warmer sounding than the HE6, not too unlike a planar HD650.

Ive not tried it out of the Glenn, but back when I had a La Figaro 339 many members were commenting on it being an awesome pairing.


----------



## whirlwind

Akiravelvet said:


> Does everybody think the HD800's go well with the GOTL? Ive been interested in them for while and idea of a HD8xx with an added bass boost sounds amazing!



When I contacted Glenn about an amp, I told him I wanted it for the HD800. He told me he designed the OTL around the HD800, as that was the headphone he listened to.
It is a match that is very good....I have found any 300 OHM headphone that I have plugged into it sound wonderful, you can really feel the authority this amp has with high impedance cans. Then the amp is very transparent to tube rolling, so you can tune the sound.  Have fun


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> Has anyone tried the HiFiMan HE6 SE V2 with the GOTL?


I thought the consensus is that Planar Magnetic cans are not a very good fit for GOTL (and OTL amps in general), even with 6336 tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> @gibosi if you're itching for a HiFiMan planar you might look into finding an old HE500, which was originally more $$$ than the HE6 and easier to drive. Its warmer sounding than the HE6, not too unlike a planar HD650.
> 
> Ive not tried it out of the Glenn, but back when I had a La Figaro 339 many members were commenting on it being an awesome pairing.



This is a planar that I have been close to buying on the B/S/T forums a few times....always passed , but have always been interested.
They seem to be few and far between on the B/S/T forum now, but I have seen a few nice ones from time to time....the price is much more reasonable than some of the new stuff.

The GOTL worked with the LCD-3 that I had...it also works with my LCD-4, even though I rarely use it with the OTL.
I'll admit...I am a sucker for planar bass and for sure the LCD bass....the cans are heavy though.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> I thought the consensus is that Planar Magnetic cans are not a very good fit for GOTL (and OTL amps in general), even with 6336 tubes.



Well, probably with most OTL's....but still can sound good with the right amp and tubes. I used the 6336 tubes for a long time, then I tried the Tung Sol 5998 and used them for my LCD-3 every time after hearing them as I liked the tone better and there will still plenty of power.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> This is a planar that I have been close to buying on the B/S/T forums a few times....always passed , but have always been interested.
> They seem to be few and far between on the B/S/T forum now, but I have seen a few nice ones from time to time....the price is much more reasonable than some of the new stuff.
> 
> The GOTL worked with the LCD-3 that I had...it also works with my LCD-4, even though I rarely use it with the OTL.
> I'll admit...I am a sucker for planar bass and for sure the LCD bass....the cans are heavy though.


Its a good sounding headphone. After I bought my HE6 I ended up selling the HE500. Regret that move to this day.
Its not super resolving and the sub bass is pedestrian. I had an LCD-2.1 at the same time. The HE500 hit much harder, but the sub bass went to the LCD.
It does have fantastic ethereal mids, and had I not gotten into ZMF to scratch my mids itch I would have bought another HE500 by now.

And yes, theyre getting harder and harder to find. Our long lost compadre, @heliosphann had one for sale for awhile, but I think he already moved it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Akiravelvet said:


> Yea, I have a speaker to headphone adapter box but since this is an OTL the speaker taps would not have a different impedance than the headphone output correct?


Correct.  Without any output transformers your output impedance is determined entirely by the tubes.  Typically for a glenn made OTL running 6AS7/6080 type tubes this means about 50 ohms.  Output transformers are impedance matching devices which are necessary in most amps because the tube itself will have such a high output impedance that it cannot drive a load directly, so the transformer steps the impedance down at a ratio determined by the specific number of windings inside the transformer itself to act as a bridge of sorts between the output device (the tube) and the load (your speaker or headphone).  The transformer has an effect on the sound, though, and generally a negative one.  This is why good amps have a significant amount of their parts cost in the transformer itself to preserve sound quality.  So there's a certain appeal in eliminating the output transformer but there are drawbacks as well which you're experiencing in your attempt to drive speakers off your amp.  OTLs are not as flexible when it comes to the types of loads they can drive.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Feb 19, 2021)

Zachik said:


> I thought the consensus is that Planar Magnetic cans are not a very good fit for GOTL (and OTL amps in general), even with 6336 tubes.



I've spent a lot of hours listening to the LCD-2 on my GOTL and always found it enjoyable.  The bass suffers a little in terms of control and impact compared to a best-case scenario for a planar but it certainly didn't sound bad to my ears.  The 60 ohm impedance is not too bad a load for the amp.  In fact some of the newer Audeze headphones have a pretty high impedance and would probably play very nicely with pretty much any OTL.

The Ether on the other hand I do think sounded kind of off with the GOTL, which is a headphone with a 24 ohm impedance.  Again I wouldn't necessarily call it "bad" sounding but it did sound rather weird in a way that's kind of difficult to put into words.

I did find that the 5998 was kind of mandatory when using the LCD-2 though.  In my amp at least this drops the output impedance down to 25 ohms which helps the situation quite a bit.


----------



## leftside (Feb 19, 2021)

Zachik said:


> I thought the consensus is that Planar Magnetic cans are not a very good fit for GOTL (and OTL amps in general), even with 6336 tubes.





Xcalibur255 said:


> I've spent a lot of hours listening to the LCD-2 on my GOTL and always found it enjoyable.  The bass suffers a little in terms of control and impact compared to a best-case scenario for a planar but it certainly didn't sound bad to my ears.  The 60 ohm impedance is not too bad a load for the amp.  In fact some of the newer Audeze headphones have a pretty high impedance and would probably play very nicely with pretty much any OTL.
> 
> The Ether on the other hand I do think sounded kind of off with the GOTL, which is a headphone with a 24 ohm impedance.  Again I wouldn't necessarily call it "bad" sounding but it did sound rather weird in a way that's kind of difficult to put into words.
> 
> I did find that the 5998 was kind of mandatory when using the LCD-2 though.  In my amp at least this drops the output impedance down to 25 ohms which helps the situation quite a bit.


I found the 5998 were mandatory when using the WA22 with the LCD-3.

My OTL from 1101 Audio was designed with the LCD-4 in mind and it drives the LCD-4 effortlessly. The output impedance is around 15 ohms with all 6 output tubes being used, which is very low for an OTL amp.

And of course the Glenn 300B SET amp also drives the LCD-4 effortlessly.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 20, 2021)

gibosi said:


> From what I have seen, many here have the HD800's. And the ZMF line of headphones is always quite popular.
> 
> Unfortunately, I'm too poor to be able to own any of these. lol



Keep checking the B/S/T forum here Ken....a pair of HE500 occasionally appear.

Other planars to consider, but not sure how the GOTL sounds with them, but I have seen all for a reasonable price.
ZMF Blackwood - closed
Mr. Speakers - open and closed
LCD-Classic - open and closed
Meze has a cheaper planar I think
Fostex entry level

I have head absolutely none of these, but probably all will have a sound with more weight to it than the HD700....maybe not trump it in detail if that is what you want.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Meze has a cheaper planar I think


They do not. FYI


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> They do not. FYI



My bad....thanks for the correction.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> My bad....thanks for the correction.


Actually, it's Meze's bad! When the pricey Empyrean came out couple years ago, people speculated the driver technology and R&D efforts would eventually trickle down to a much cheaper product. 
We're still waiting...


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> Other planars to consider, but not sure how the GOTL sounds with them, but I have seen all for a reasonable price.
> ZMF Blackwood - closed
> Mr. Speakers - open and closed
> LCD-Classic - open and closed
> ...


I wouldnt recommend ZMF Blackwood unless someone is after an incredibly warm and bass heavy headphone. It uses a Fostex driver as opposed to ZMFs proprietary designs.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I wouldnt recommend ZMF Blackwood unless someone is after an incredibly warm and bass heavy headphone. It uses a Fostex driver as opposed to ZMFs proprietary designs.



I have never heard the Blackwood, I was just naming some planars that should be available for a cheaper price.
ZMF Ori was also a fostex driver, but what Zach did with it was pretty cool....very engaging headphone.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Its a good sounding headphone. After I bought my HE6 I ended up selling the HE500. Regret that move to this day.
> Its not super resolving and the sub bass is pedestrian. I had an LCD-2.1 at the same time. The HE500 hit much harder, but the sub bass went to the LCD.
> It does have fantastic ethereal mids, and had I not gotten into ZMF to scratch my mids itch I would have bought another HE500 by now.
> 
> And yes, theyre getting harder and harder to find. Our long lost compadre, @heliosphann had one for sale for awhile, but I think he already moved it.



I actually had 3 different pairs of HE-500's at one time! Truly a classic planar. Unfortunately all of mine are gone... 
But, I still have my GOTL and a few ZMF's. In fact I'm listening to a bunch of old vinyl right now.

Hope everyone is well. I should be around a little more than I have been. Got something in the works, plus I've got like 4 tubs of tubes I need to go through and find some good combinations with my Glenn!


----------



## Zachik

heliosphann said:


> Got something in the works


What a tease...


----------



## Smallpie

Two main talking points of interest:

1)What are the best tube combos everybody has heard in the GOTL?
1st best? 2nd best? Etc.

2)what’s the cheapest combo that produces the best Sonics? For a warm sound? A neutral sound? And a more detailed sound?


----------



## chrisdrop

Akiravelvet said:


> Two main talking points of interest:
> 
> 1)What are the best tube combos everybody has heard in the GOTL?
> 1st best? 2nd best? Etc.
> ...


YMMV, caveats, etc:

Outputs: 2x Bendix 6080 or 2x GEC 6080. (For past several months I have preferred the 2x GEC 6080)
or 6x 6BX7GT

Inputs: 2x 6J5G (via adapter to *SN7 socket). There is a whole thread worth of 6J5/6C5 commentary, but in the GOTL, I tend to have liked older MOV L63 variants (GEC, Osram, etc). Fivre 6C5Gs are also very nice, maybe even sometimes better than the MOVs (sweet mids).
Occasional "double driver", _adding_ 2x Mullard EL32 to the C3G sockets at the same time as the rest. 

Very worth mentioning:

I think the "best" dual triode is the Mullard ECC32. Expensive.
The humble "tin-can" RCA 6J5 or 6C5 are inexpensive and generally very good inputs.
I really like the AnM 6J7Gs mentioned on this thread, but I'm not sure others fell in love with them.
I sometimes would use the 6BL7GT outputs as a slightly more mellow 6BX7s (Sylvania). I had a hard time getting a NOS quiet matched set, but may be easier in the US
Melz 6N12S - several others on the thread have been using these more recently. 4x is a good set of outputs especially that they are different than the other outputs mentioned.
I really like 1940s RCA 6N7G (via adapter into the *SN7 socket). (I have a Fivre 6N7G that I wish wasn't microphonic because it is sooo pretty! Tube repairs never fixed it)
EL3N via adapter to the C3G sockets are always good as stand-alone inputs
All of that would keep you rolling for a good  while !


----------



## mordy

I am sure that you have heard of Firestone tires:




If you drive in the winter with Firestone tires, this is what happens:



In the 30's and 40's Firestone tire stores sold appliances and radios as well. Their line of radios was called Air Chief. Some designs are beautiful:



And some are stunning Art Deco design:



Why am I mentioning all this?



The right tube is an ST type pentode made for Firestone by Ken-Rad, probably from July 1939 and was used in the radios of the era.
The GE tube is from 1943 and looks very similar and I assume that it is also a Ken-Rad.
Currently I am testing these tubes in the GOTL together with a pair of RCA 6AS7G. After some 10 hours they started to hum noticeably. After fabricating an emergency Faraday cage the hum was brought to below the hearing threshold level when playing music.



The tubes seem to enjoy the added warmth since the fans aren't blowing directly on them and the sound is improving, but it could also be a factor of the time using them.
Will need more time to evaluate them but possibly promising.


----------



## Smallpie

@mordy ”this is the best tube. The tube is.........(hangs up)” LOL!


----------



## Smallpie (Feb 21, 2021)

mordy said:


> I am sure that you have heard of Firestone tires:
> 
> If you drive in the winter with Firestone tires, this is what happens:
> 
> ...


How about other tube combos you have already evaluated and already safely stored up?Wondering what people’s favorites are.
Then I have a basis for buying and not just buying a bunch of duds. Mostly looking for inexpensive tubes that sound good!
Also, attained grail tubes, ones that you can actually buy and don’t cost a thousand dollars on eBay lol


----------



## mordy (Feb 21, 2021)

Akiravelvet said:


> How about other tube combos you have already evaluated and already safely stored up?Wondering what people’s favorites are.
> Then I have a basis for buying and not just buying a bunch of duds. Mostly looking for inexpensive tubes that sound good!
> Also, attained grail tubes, ones that you can actually buy and don’t cost a thousand dollars on eBay lol


The trick is the synergy between tubes. And IMHO you do not need expensive tubes for good sound. but you may need adapters that may cost more than the tubes.
I'll try to look through my notes to see which inexpensive tube combinations I liked.


Akiravelvet said:


> How about other tube combos you have already evaluated and already safely stored up?Wondering what people’s favorites are.
> Then I have a basis for buying and not just buying a bunch of duds. Mostly looking for inexpensive tubes that sound good!
> Also, attained grail tubes, ones that you can actually buy and don’t cost a thousand dollars on eBay lol


Just found out that Retrostore in Slovakia got in more of the MELZ 6N12S tubes. At around $9 each this is a very good buy and a quad or sextet can be very good power tubes in the GOTL.


----------



## Monsterzero

Akiravelvet said:


> How about other tube combos you have already evaluated and already safely stored up?Wondering what people’s favorites are.
> Then I have a basis for buying and not just buying a bunch of duds. Mostly looking for inexpensive tubes that sound good!
> Also, attained grail tubes, ones that you can actually buy and don’t cost a thousand dollars on eBay lol


tube rolling is similar to free hand cooking. Toss in some of this spice and a little of that herb and see how it comes out....and just because you added cloves to chili doesnt mean that cloves are bad, it just means that cloves dont belong in chili (my wife actually did this once) 

My point is pairing up some 5998s with an E. German tube in the driver seat while listening to an HD800 might be treble overkill, it very well may sound good with a warm headphone. Similarly pairing up some RCA 6sa7g with a Mullard driver will come out very warm and possibly loose, flabby bass as well. Plugging in a ZMF into that combo wont please many folks, but an HD800 might sound fantastic.

Some tubes sound like trash when used with various tubes, but when you pair them up with an entirely different combo of tubes they sound like gold! Literally hundreds, if not thousands of posts in this thread are the result of members mixing and matching various tubes and striking gold. Its one of the many things about Glenn's OTL design that we love, the nearly endless tube combo possibilities.

Perhaps share with us what headphones you are using, and the sound you're trying to get, and im sure you will get some suggestions. 

Also if @L0rdGwyn suggests a pair of 7802s you have my permission to smack him.


----------



## Smallpie (Feb 21, 2021)

Monsterzero said:


> tube rolling is similar to free hand cooking. Toss in some of this spice and a little of that herb and see how it comes out....and just because you added cloves to chili doesnt mean that cloves are bad, it just means that cloves dont belong in chili (my wife actually did this once)
> 
> My point is pairing up some 5998s with an E. German tube in the driver seat while listening to an HD800 might be treble overkill, it very well may sound good with a warm headphone. Similarly pairing up some RCA 6sa7g with a Mullard driver will come out very warm and possibly loose, flabby bass as well. Plugging in a ZMF into that combo wont please many folks, but an HD800 might sound fantastic.
> 
> ...


I mostly listen to Zmf headphones. Verite and Aeolus are my favorites.

I was really also interested in hearing what people are using as combos in their setups right now. If it’s with zmfs that’s even better. But if people have different headphones than me it’s still interesting to read about their combos and why they got to them.

what is everybody using right now and why do they like that combo?
What headphones is everybody using?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Also if @L0rdGwyn suggests a pair of 7802s you have my permission to smack him.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


>


Couldnt resist


----------



## Monsterzero

Akiravelvet said:


> I mostly listen to Zmf headphones. Verite and Aeolus are my favorites.
> 
> I was really also interested in hearing what people are using as combos in their setups right now. If it’s with zmfs that’s even better. But if people have different headphones than me it’s still interesting to read about their combos and why they got to them.
> 
> ...


Are you Earmuffs from headphone.com, owning the Glenn with two power sockets?


----------



## Smallpie

Monsterzero said:


> Are you Earmuffs from headphone.com, owning the Glenn with two power sockets?


Yes, I think earmuffs was taken over here.


----------



## gibosi

Sometimes I think I have too many tubes. But then I take another look at this collection. 

http://lampes-et-tubes.info/museum.php?l=e


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Sometimes I think I have too many tubes. But then I take another look at this collection.
> 
> http://lampes-et-tubes.info/museum.php?l=e


Where is this place? France?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Where is this place? France?



Nivelles, Belgium.

http://lampes-et-tubes.info/index-e.htm


----------



## Velozity

Akiravelvet said:


> I mostly listen to Zmf headphones. Verite and Aeolus are my favorites.
> 
> I was really also interested in hearing what people are using as combos in their setups right now. If it’s with zmfs that’s even better. But if people have different headphones than me it’s still interesting to read about their combos and why they got to them.
> 
> ...




My GOTL has two power sockets, one driver socket, and a tube rectifier.  I'm not sure of your GOTL arrangement, but in my case I'm able to keep it relatively simple.  My go-to power tubes are Chatham 6AS7G and Bendix 6080.  I also have a good amount of RCA 6AS7G because they also sound very, very good and people keep sleeping on them so they are still plentiful and prices are very reasonable.  Insider trading tip, if you see a nice NOS matched pair buy them now, especially the older black plate JAN versions.  I was very high on the Tung-Sol 7236 for awhile, but my hearing has matured over time and experience, and I now prefer the lower gain (read quieter) and romantic euphony of the 6AS7G/6080 over the ballsy and authoritative 7236.  For drivers I think most in this thread will urge you to get a dual-6J5 to 6SN7 adapter if you haven't already.  The 6SN7 in general has become too pricey due to its use and popularity in many current amps.  We've found that adapting dual single-triode tubes in place of a single dual-triode tube is sonically beneficial in almost every way.  Thus, 6J5, 6C5, 6P5 and their cousins are always on my shopping list.  My favorites of these are Brimar 6C5G and MOV 6J5G/L63.  Honorable mention goes to the Ken-Rad / Cossor labeled 6C5.  For rectification I pretty much only use one of two tubes now- the MOV U18/20 (CV 31) and the Cossor 53KU.  Everything else is just junior varsity, lol.


----------



## Smallpie (Feb 21, 2021)

thanks man. I appreciate the ideas! I have only 1 7236 and am hoping to find another soon. I have a U52 and a gz34 metal base on the way for rectification.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> Sometimes I think I have too many tubes. But then I take another look at this collection.
> 
> http://lampes-et-tubes.info/museum.php?l=e


Tubes are like money - one can never have too much of either


----------



## Smallpie (Feb 21, 2021)

Zachik said:


> Tubes are like money - one can never have too much of either


They age like a fine wine too!


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Feb 22, 2021)

The best *resolution* I have ever heard from my GOTL was from an ECC33 and 5998 combo.  I feel like choosing that specific criteria is the only way I can answer the question succinctly.  For anything else you have to consider which headphones work with the pairings in question and suddenly the question becomes a spaghetti monster.

edit:  maybe it was an ECC35.....?  It's been so long now I can't remember, and that wasn't a tube I owned I was merely borrowing it from somebody to evaluate.  I'm pretty sure it was an ECC33 though.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Where is this place? France?



@gibosi is just testing us, it's actually his collection


----------



## gibosi (Feb 22, 2021)

In another thread a number of folks recently praised the Telefunken 6080, and given that I had never been all that impressed with that tube, I figured I should give it another chance. In the past I felt they were too thin in the midrange and the treble was a bit over the top, but with my recent experience with the Melz 6N12S, I thought I would use the same rectifier and driver combinations to enrich the midrange and tame the treble bite. And I am pleased to report that this is very enjoyable roll. And to those who enjoy the 6N12S, I would say that if you get a chance to try these Telefunkens, you just might like them.

But of course, as always, my ears and gear, YMMV. 

Telefunken 6080 with a Mullard GZ32 and a pair of Holland-made EL42.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> In another thread a number of folks recently praised the Telefunken 6080, and given that I had never been all that impressed with that tube, I figured I should give it another chance. In the past I felt they were to thin in the midrange and the treble was a bit over the top, but with my recent experience with the Melz 6N12S, I thought I would use the same rectifier and driver combinations to enrich the midrange and tame the treble bite. And I am pleased to report that this is very enjoyable roll. And to those who enjoy the 6N12S, I would say that if you get a chance to try these Telefunkens, you just might like them.
> 
> But of course, as always, my ears and gear, YMMV.
> 
> Telefunke 6080 with a Mullard GZ32 and a pair of Holland-made EL42.



Do those Holland made EL42 have a warm sound and nice slam like EL3N ?


----------



## Smallpie

I picked up a melz 6n12s but there was only 1 left in stock. If anybody has an extra please let me know.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Do those Holland made EL42 have a warm sound and nice slam like EL3N ?



They have that typical Holland sound, warm with a lush midrange. And the Telefunkens have considerabale bass slam. But most folks here have the the Austrian-made WIRAG EL3N, which is not quite as warm. But I believe you also have a pair of EL3N manufactured in Eindhoven, Holland, and yes it is similar. However the EL42 are much, much quieter.


----------



## gibosi

Akiravelvet said:


> I picked up a melz 6n12s but there was only 1 left in stock. If anybody has an extra please let me know.



It seems they get a few more in every so often, so be patient and keep checking in.


----------



## Smallpie

gibosi said:


> In another thread a number of folks recently praised the Telefunken 6080, and given that I had never been all that impressed with that tube, I figured I should give it another chance. In the past I felt they were to thin in the midrange and the treble was a bit over the top, but with my recent experience with the Melz 6N12S, I thought I would use the same rectifier and driver combinations to enrich the midrange and tame the treble bite. And I am pleased to report that this is very enjoyable roll. And to those who enjoy the 6N12S, I would say that if you get a chance to try these Telefunkens, you just might like them.
> 
> But of course, as always, my ears and gear, YMMV.
> 
> Telefunke 6080 with a Mullard GZ32 and a pair of Holland-made EL42.


Do you think the tele 6080’s are worth the $120 each they are offered for on eBay? How would you compare them against the GEC 6080’s?


----------



## Smallpie

gibosi said:


> It seems they get a few more in every so often, so be patient and keep checking in.


That’s nice to know.  @mordy was saying the same thing about them restocking a few times in the past.


----------



## gibosi (Feb 22, 2021)

Akiravelvet said:


> Do you think the tele 6080’s are worth the $120 each they are offered for on eBay? How would you compare them against the GEC 6080’s?


It depends on your ears and gear. I enjoy both the GEC and Telefunken 6080s. However, they are different and I roll different drivers and rectifiers with each so it is hard to compare. That said, the Melz 6N12S and Telefunken 6080 sound quite similar. In my mind, if Melz made a 6080 it would sound like the Telefunken. 

Since you are chasing after 6N12S now, wait until you get a few more. And then if you like that sound, I suspect you will also like the Telefunkens.


----------



## leftside

Be a little careful with the Telefunken 6080. Luckily the fake ones are easy to spot.
https://jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/index.html


----------



## gibosi (Feb 22, 2021)

Warning... this is WAYYY off topic. lol 

Given that many of us are cooped up inside, bored to tears, here's a card game that might help to pass the time:

https://mashable.com/shopping/feb-21-farting-frenchies-card-game/


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Be a little careful with the Telefunken 6080. Luckily the fake ones are easy to spot.
> https://jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/index.html


Eye opening reading about all the fakes out there...
Especially scary is the very last section on the bottom of the page about radioactive tubes. Do I have to be afraid of 845 tubes?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Eye opening reading about all the fakes out there...
> Especially scary is the very last section on the bottom of the page about radioactive tubes. Do I have to be afraid of 845 tubes?



Thorium is an alpha particle emitter.  This type of radiation is low energy and is only harmful if radioactive decay occurs inside the body, i.e. the thorium is eaten or the filaments crushed and dust particles inhaled.

From the CDC:

Alpha particles may be ejected from the nucleus of an atom during radioactive decay. They are relatively heavy, and only travel about an inch in air. Alpha particles can easily be shielded by a single sheet of paper and cannot penetrate the outer dead layer of skin, so they pose no danger when their source is outside the human body.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Also, thoriated tungsten welding rods are still commonplace.  New production DHTs are being made with thoriated tungsten filaments.


----------



## Galapac

Same goes for beryllium and I have that over my ears at least 3 to 4 days a week. As long as you don’t eat it...


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thorium is an alpha particle emitter. This type of radiation is low energy and is only harmful if radioactive decay occurs inside the body, i.e. the thorium is eaten


Whenever you feel the urge to snack on a 845 tube with Thorium - I strongly recommend cashew nuts instead!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I sort of got out of the 6N7 market before they really blew up in popularity I think, now it seems pairs of the ST models are hard to find!  I am back in the market as I rewired my 45 amplifier to take both 6J5 and 6N7, here is what I am trying out for starters.

Thought I would give the metal guys a shot, I like Tung-Sol, so I will start there.




Then have some RCA 6N7G on the way, set of four, from outside the USA so it's gonna be a long while.



Then lastly, the venerable ECC31.  This pair is from Singapore, so another long wait, but I think it will be worth it.



Keeping my eyes peeled for more 6N7G pairs  at one point I had a pair of brown base Fivre 6N7G, but one died on me, sadly.


----------



## triod750

I have a Tung-Sol GT/G. It is very black, the print vanishes almost into the black glass. Still waiting for adapter to use it. I can't fin any codes on it.


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> ... at one point I had a pair of brown base Fivre 6N7G, but one died on me, sadly.


I have a beautiful looking one, that I bought used. It is too noisy, but so pretty! Shame really.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

chrisdrop said:


> I have a beautiful looking one, that I bought used. It is too noisy, but so pretty! Shame really.



I would love to find its twin, but these sure are hard to come by.  Maybe some day 🤷‍♂️


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I sort of got out of the 6N7 market before they really blew up in popularity I think, now it seems pairs of the ST models are hard to find!  I am back in the market as I rewired my 45 amplifier to take both 6J5 and 6N7, here is what I am trying out for starters.
> 
> Thought I would give the metal guys a shot, I like Tung-Sol, so I will start there.
> 
> ...


I have tried a bunch of 6N7, 6N7GT and 6N7G tubes from all the major US manufacturers and a couple of European. 
Of the metal ones I like the RCA and Ken-Rad.
Visseaux,  National Union and Tung Sol are nice in the 6N7GT versions. 
Of the 6N7G I like the Arcturus and RCA with the nod going to the RCA as the best sounding. 
- Could not warm up to the ECC31 in the GOTL.
One advantage of the GOTL is that you only need one tube with adapter in the 6SN7 socket.


----------



## Smallpie

Just wondering if anybody is after a Philips Miniwatt GZ34 55’ Metal Base Welded Plate. I might be interested in doing a trade if someone has something cool to offer. Send me a message if interested


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I have tried a bunch of 6N7, 6N7GT and 6N7G tubes from all the major US manufacturers and a couple of European.
> Of the metal ones I like the RCA and Ken-Rad.
> Visseaux,  National Union and Tung Sol are nice in the 6N7GT versions.
> Of the 6N7G I like the Arcturus and RCA with the nod going to the RCA as the best sounding.
> ...



Have you tried any Russian 6H7C / 6N7S?


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Have you tried any Russian 6H7C / 6N7S?


Nyet


----------



## triod750

What are you waiting for then, Mordy?


----------



## mordy

triod750 said:


> What are you waiting for then, Mordy?


Maybe you are right (gibosi and triod750) - I should try them since they are within my budget:
The manufacturers are Foton, NEVS (Svetlana) and Reflektor. Which manufacturer and which years have the best chance of sounding good?


----------



## triod750

mordy said:


> Maybe you are right (gibosi and triod750) - I should try them since they are within my budget:
> The manufacturers are Foton, NEVS (Svetlana) and Reflektor. Which manufacturer and which years have the best chance of sounding good?


GE 1983 to 1987


----------



## L0rdGwyn

These metal Tung-Sol 6N7s sound pretty good right out of the box!  Will have to give them more time then do a true head-to-head against the shouldered types, but so far I am liking what I am hearing.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> These metal Tung-Sol 6N7s sound pretty good right out of the box!  Will have to give them more time then do a true head-to-head against the shouldered types, but so far I am liking what I am hearing.


What a gorgeous amp!!! 
(I have seen it before, but every time you post new photos - I just love it even more )


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> These metal Tung-Sol 6N7s sound pretty good right out of the box!  Will have to give them more time then do a true head-to-head against the shouldered types, but so far I am liking what I am hearing.


The metal tubes are very underrated and still inexpensive, perhaps because they do not have a tantalizing tube glow and often have a little rust on them (doesn't effect performance).
One thing to remember is that they take longer to warm up than glass tubes - at least 1/2 hour.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> These metal Tung-Sol 6N7s sound pretty good right out of the box!  Will have to give them more time then do a true head-to-head against the shouldered types, but so far I am liking what I am hearing.



They look nice too, with those globes!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Feb 25, 2021)

Zachik said:


> What a gorgeous amp!!!
> (I have seen it before, but every time you post new photos - I just love it even more )





whirlwind said:


> They look nice too, with those globes!



Thanks gentlemen, I appreciate it.  I like how they look too!



mordy said:


> The metal tubes are very underrated and still inexpensive, perhaps because they do not have a tantalizing tube glow and often have a little rust on them (doesn't effect performance).



Yes, they can be had very cheaply, going to explore a few more brands.  Bought this small lot for $30 + tax and shipping, mostly for the pairs of Ken-Rad and Sylvania.  I will send the mismatched GE pair to @bcowen for evaluation by a GE expert.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I imagine years from now when NOS tubes are even more scarce, these little metal tubes could command high prices.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks gentlemen, I appreciate it.  I like how they look too!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they can be had very cheaply, going to explore a few more brands.  Bought this small lot for $30 + tax and shipping, mostly for the pairs of Ken-Rad and Sylvania.  I will send the mismatched GE pair to @bcowen for evaluation by a GE expert.


What was the mismatch? Dates? I have seen 6J5 metal tubes with 1970s dates which seems strange for a tube that started to be manufactured in the 30's - wonder if they put on new dates on old stock? It would be remarkable to have the same tube made for decades.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> I will send the mismatched GE pair to @bcowen for evaluation by a GE expert.


Just don't expect to ever see them back! @bcowen will tell you "they do not test well. I will dispose of them for you" - and they will live happily ever after in his amps...


----------



## bcowen

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yes, they can be had very cheaply, going to explore a few more brands.  Bought this small lot for $30 + tax and shipping, mostly for the pairs of Ken-Rad and Sylvania.  I will send the mismatched GE pair to @bcowen for evaluation by a GE expert.


Think the Darkvoice can handle the extra 200ma's of heater current without blowing up?   The Incubus could, but I hate to make it mad at me.


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> Just don't expect to ever see them back! @bcowen will tell you "they do not test well. I will dispose of them for you" - and they will live happily ever after in his amps...


The little dial at the arrow is really cool.  Depending on where you set it, you can make any tube test exactly how you want it to -- 2x NOS GM, totally dead, and/or everything in between.  You have one on your 800A too....use it to your advantage.


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> The little dial at the arrow is really cool.  Depending on where you set it, you can make any tube test exactly how you want it to -- 2x NOS GM, totally dead, and/or everything in between.  You have one on your 800A too....use it to your advantage.


Stop spilling the beans on all the trade secrets of Bangy Bang and all the other "reputable" eBay sellers!!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Feb 25, 2021)

mordy said:


> What was the mismatch? Dates? I have seen 6J5 metal tubes with 1970s dates which seems strange for a tube that started to be manufactured in the 30's - wonder if they put on new dates on old stock? It would be remarkable to have the same tube made for decades.



I think the dates are mismatched, different boxes so I assumed.  But I have seen old tubes relabeled with branding and date codes from the 60s and 70s, despite being manufactured in the 40s or 50s, so that is definitely a possibility!



bcowen said:


> Think the Darkvoice can handle the extra 200ma's of heater current without blowing up?   The Incubus could, but I hate to make it mad at me.



Hmmm the performance of that transformer is already somewhat suspect, I'll let you try it first  they aren't great about derating parts either, like using 200VDC caps when the reservoir cap sees 205-215VDC, so who knows how much headroom is on that winding, or if it is already over spec at stock


----------



## Xcalibur255

I do wonder how many eBay sellers are actually being nefarious and how many simply don't know they are operating their tester incorrectly.  Or in some cases the tester itself is giving inaccurate results because it's badly in need of an overhaul.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks gentlemen, I appreciate it.  I like how they look too!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they can be had very cheaply, going to explore a few more brands.  Bought this small lot for $30 + tax and shipping, mostly for the pairs of Ken-Rad and Sylvania.  I will send the mismatched GE pair to @bcowen for evaluation by a GE expert.



That is a killer haul for $30


----------



## bcowen

Xcalibur255 said:


> I do wonder how many eBay sellers are actually being nefarious and how many simply don't know they are operating their tester incorrectly.  Or in some cases the tester itself is giving inaccurate results because it's badly in need of an overhaul.


I think probably a combination of all of those.  I've been purchasing and restoring these vintage testers for several years now (not as a business, just a hobby) and I have yet to receive one that didn't have at least one bad capacitor, and many of the rest are well off their stated value(s).  Most of the testers I look at were made in the late '50's or 60's, so those electrolytic caps are 50+ years old.  It's amazing any of them still work at all, really.


----------



## Galapac

Are Amplitrex and Maximatcher to be trusted?
like this:  https://maximatcher.com/

I read somewhere the best tester was the application it was used in but it’s Wild West out there on the Bay.


----------



## bcowen

Galapac said:


> Are Amplitrex and Maximatcher to be trusted?
> like this:  https://maximatcher.com/
> 
> I read somewhere the best tester was the application it was used in but it’s Wild West out there on the Bay.


I don't have any experience with either of them, but from everything I've seen and read they look to be very nice machines.  Expensive though.  The Amplitrex is over $3k, and with the Maxi's you need one for preamp-type tubes and an entirely different one for power tubes, so with a few adapters that will probably be needed you're gonna hit close to $3k on those as well to test all your tubes.  But....you get a new machine with modern materials, and if something fails you can (presumably) get replacement parts quickly and easily.  You can get one of the vintage machines for a lot less obviously, but you have an old machine, and if you have a transformer fry or a meter go belly up, it's not like you can order a replacement from Mouser.


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> I don't have any experience with either of them, but from everything I've seen and read they look to be very nice machines.  Expensive though.  The Amplitrex is over $3k, and with the Maxi's you need one for preamp-type tubes and an entirely different one for power tubes, so with a few adapters that will probably be needed you're gonna hit close to $3k on those as well to test all your tubes.  But....you get a new machine with modern materials, and if something fails you can (presumably) get replacement parts quickly and easily.  You can get one of the vintage machines for a lot less obviously, but you have an old machine, and if you have a transformer fry or a meter go belly up, it's not like you can order a replacement from Mouser.


Cheaper to go with one of those fancy tracers that @L0rdGwyn got recently... Half as much $, and probably more capable!


----------



## whirlwind

I am quite enjoying my morning off work.
Strolling through a bunch of John Hiatt Japan remasters


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Cheaper to go with one of those fancy tracers that @L0rdGwyn got recently... Half as much $, and probably more capable!



Was going to suggest this but didn't want to beat a dead horse.  There is a learning curve so definitely need to be prepared to interpret tube datasheets to choose test conditions.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> I am quite enjoying my morning off work.
> Strolling through a bunch of John Hiatt Japan remasters



Looks great Joe, hope those sockets are holding up well


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Looks great Joe, hope those sockets are holding up well



Yes sir, they absolutely are   

The morning is even getting better !


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> There is a learning curve


🤣  good one!!!


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> The morning is even getting better !


Getting better by drinking salad?!?!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'd love to see an eTracer Lite.  Just basic testing ability for less money.  With a software interface through a PC it could be foolproof, you just download the config file for whatever tube you are testing and don't have to worry about having the test parameters wrong.

Like I said a little while ago I'm kind of amazed something like this doesn't already exist because whoever makes the first one is going to sell a ton of them.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> 🤣  good one!!!



LOL I realized the missed opportunity about a half hour after I posted, I love a good pun.


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'd love to see an eTracer Lite.  Just basic testing ability for less money.  With a software interface through a PC it could be foolproof, you just download the config file for whatever tube you are testing and don't have to worry about having the test parameters wrong.
> 
> Like I said a little while ago I'm kind of amazed something like this doesn't already exist because whoever makes the first one is going to sell a ton of them.


100% agree with you!!
I wish the guy would create an eTracer Lite hardware, and maybe a SW license that cost $100-150 instead of $500... Give customers an option to upgrade the SW license later on for added functionality that the likes of @L0rdGwyn would appreciate, but I would never care for.
Maybe a cool idea for a Kickstarter project


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'd love to see an eTracer Lite.  Just basic testing ability for less money.  With a software interface through a PC it could be foolproof, you just download the config file for whatever tube you are testing and don't have to worry about having the test parameters wrong.
> 
> Like I said a little while ago I'm kind of amazed something like this doesn't already exist because whoever makes the first one is going to sell a ton of them.



I could run this idea by Chris, designer of the etracer, although it seems he already spends so much time improving his existing design I don't know if he would be willing to take up a new one.  But if you essentially removed the tracing aspect of the tester and had it run a "Quick Scan" only, removed the software interface and had the output displayed on a LCD screen, similar to the Amplitrex, that would be very appealing to a lot of people I think.  A tube database with test parameters would have to be built of course, but could be crowd sourced.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I feel like keeping the PC interface makes more sense.  There is a lot of flexibility in building an interface in software, and doing so allows the hardware to be a bit cheaper too because there is no need for a screen or NVRAM to store data files.  Just a small box with maybe 4 of the most common sockets that connects to your computer via USB.  Something like this could be made pretty affordable IMO.


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> I feel like keeping the PC interface makes more sense.  There is a lot of flexibility in building an interface in software, and doing so allows the hardware to be a bit cheaper too because there is no need for a screen or NVRAM to store data files.  Just a small box with maybe 4 of the most common sockets that connects to your computer via USB.  Something like this could be made pretty affordable IMO.


To add to that:
The software already exists!  The developer needs to create a branch that is a subset (i.e. disable some of the functionality). 
I really wish the guy would see the potential such a model has. He would make less money per tracer, but he would sell WAY more units for sure.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Feb 26, 2021)

I will make the case to him.  Right now he charges separately for hardware and software, and the full functionality software is quite expensive, but maybe he could pare it down and reduce the price.  What do you think people would be willing to pay for something like this?


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> I feel like keeping the PC interface makes more sense.  There is a lot of flexibility in building an interface in software, and doing so allows the hardware to be a bit cheaper too because there is no need for a screen or NVRAM to store data files.  Just a small box with maybe 4 of the most common sockets that connects to your computer via USB.  Something like this could be made pretty affordable IMO.



I'm not sure, but "PC interface" suggests to me that it might be Windows and/or Mac?  Since I am running Linux, I fear I would be SOL.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> What do you think people would be willing to pay for something like this?


Currently, SW license is $500, and the HW is $580:
- Built and tested PCB: USD$350 (Mandatory)
- Model-01 chassis with accessories: USD$200 (Optional)
- Mean Well EPP-200-27 power supply: USD$30 (Optional, must be bought together with the Model-01 chassis)
So, total is $1080 (unless I missed something).

To make it a hobbyist-friendly device, the hardware should be IMO $400 and the SW license another $100 for a total of $500. 
For that price - I will gladly buy one!

As stated by @Xcalibur255 - HW can be optimized by removing some of the exotic sockets, and probably some other optimizations to lower the BOM and thus the cost.

Just my 2 cents...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> I'm not sure, but "PC interface" suggests to me that it might be Windows and/or Mac?  Since I am running Linux, I fear I would be SOL.



Hey Ken - right now I think the etracer software is Windows only :/


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> Currently, SW license is $500, and the HW is $580:
> - Built and tested PCB: USD$350 (Mandatory)
> - Model-01 chassis with accessories: USD$200 (Optional)
> - Mean Well EPP-200-27 power supply: USD$30 (Optional, must be bought together with the Model-01 chassis)
> ...



I will send Chris an email today and run the idea by him, stay tuned!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I feel like a modern mainstream tester for the masses shouldn't be going for more than, say, $299 or so, but that might not be achievable at lower sales volume.  We need to keep in mind that the current pricing is based on super low volume for a super small audience and that skews the perception some.

If the whole thing can be put on a single PCB then the real breakthrough in making it affordable would be to have it contract manufactured somewhere instead of it just being a guy in a workshop assembling them.

What I'm envisioning is something simple, practical, and affordable enough that somebody owning an amp as cheap as a Darkvoice would want to have one to be able to check their ever growing pile of tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gibosi said:


> I'm not sure, but "PC interface" suggests to me that it might be Windows and/or Mac?  Since I am running Linux, I fear I would be SOL.



Do you have a Windows license you could run in WINE or another virtualization environment?  I feel like this is kind of the go-to solution for Linux users who need to use a piece of software that's Windows only.


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> I feel like a modern mainstream tester for the masses shouldn't be going for more than, say, $299 or so, but that might not be achievable at lower sales volume.  We need to keep in mind that the current pricing is based on super low volume for a super small audience and that skews the perception some.
> 
> If the whole thing can be put on a single PCB then the real breakthrough in making it affordable would be to have it contract manufactured somewhere instead of it just being a guy in a workshop assembling them.
> 
> What I'm envisioning is something simple, practical, and affordable enough that somebody owning an amp as cheap as a Darkvoice would want to have one to be able to check their ever growing pile of tubes.


I seriously doubt Chris can make it that cheap without major from-scratch redesign, and that is the reason that I wrote that $500 would be reasonable for any serious tube roller. Probably not for someone who just bought the DV as his first tube amp... 
If Chris or anyone else takes this project through Kickstarter financing, and re-designs this whole thing with price target of $299 - that should be achievable IMHO.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I sent him a lengthy email stating my case.  I left the pricing open-ended but pressed the point of price being a barrier to purchasing the etracer for the average hobbyist and affordability being a priority.


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> Do you have a Windows license you could run in WINE or another virtualization environment?  I feel like this is kind of the go-to solution for Linux users who need to use a piece of software that's Windows only.



If this actually comes to fruition, I will find a way.


----------



## Xcalibur255

If Chris weren't interested, and he may not be, the challenge would be obtaining the expertise necessary to design the testing circuit for something like this.  I really have no idea if it's feasible or not to be honest, but looked at from an entrepreneurial viewpoint the opportunity exists to crack open a new product sales market with tube enthusiasts so at the end of the day the idea just needs to land in the lap of somebody with the resources to really pursue it.


----------



## leftside

The business opportunity is big for a sub $1000 device - even better if it's around $500. I'd love an Amplitrex, but have always been put off by the cost.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

Apologies for interrupting the tube tracer/tester talk, but an exciting development down under today! After lurking, and slowly reading through this thread since 2018, I am finally a glenn OTL owner as of today  Many thanks to @chrisdrop for making the whole purchase process of his amp seamless and easy, and glad it has landed safely after travelling all the way across the world. Can't wait to roll through the endless possibilities on offer, and am continuing to learn from the past rolling adventures of all of you on this thread. Of course, the 6/12/25V switch is an excuse to buy even more tubes now!

First impressions just with some basic RCA 6080s and the 13D1 are stupendous. This is definitely one of the best amps I have heard at any price point and design. Sound is effortless, details galore and the tone is most enjoyable.





And simply trying out all the sockets with the first tubes that were up for the job, with 4x Melz 6H12C and 2x RCA 6AS7G. Still deciding on if I enjoy the timbre of the Melz  tubes or not, but regardless, anything plugged in seems to sound good 



Definitely need to find new angles with the camera to focus properly; the amp is so large!!


----------



## Zachik

tintinsnowydog said:


> I am finally a glenn OTL owner as of today


Congrats!!! You'll love this amp   
So... I wonder if we should ban @chrisdrop from this thread, after selling his GOTL... 
*(just kidding - Chris is an awesome dude!)*


----------



## chrisdrop

tintinsnowydog said:


> Apologies for interrupting the tube tracer/tester talk, but an exciting development down under today! After lurking, and slowly reading through this thread since 2018, I am finally a glenn OTL owner as of today  Many thanks to @chrisdrop for making the whole purchase process of his amp seamless and easy, and glad it has landed safely after travelling all the way across the world. Can't wait to roll through the endless possibilities on offer, and am continuing to learn from the past rolling adventures of all of you on this thread. Of course, the 6/12/25V switch is an excuse to buy even more tubes now!
> 
> First impressions just with some basic RCA 6080s and the 13D1 are stupendous. This is definitely one of the best amps I have heard at any price point and design. Sound is effortless, details galore and the tone is most enjoyable.
> 
> ...


Very glad to see it safe and sound in your steady hands (ears?). Awesome. Shipping amps terrifies me! I'm chuffed that the amp went to a great new home.

What headphones are you using? 

I was never sure on rolling 2x different output tubes (i.e.; Melz+6AS8Gs?) as in your 2nd picture. I'm not sure how it works (if?)? I think @mordy has experimented here too.

FYI - the red rubber ring on the right RCA (all those "r"s were fun!), the base was just a bit loose (it is not microphonic tube) so I put the band along the top of the metal base to keep it immobile. 

Enjoy exploring your tube collection! 

@Zachik - yeah - moment of insanity? @tintinsnowydog kidnapped my family? I'm still here, sound surfing.


----------



## whirlwind

tintinsnowydog said:


> Apologies for interrupting the tube tracer/tester talk, but an exciting development down under today! After lurking, and slowly reading through this thread since 2018, I am finally a glenn OTL owner as of today  Many thanks to @chrisdrop for making the whole purchase process of his amp seamless and easy, and glad it has landed safely after travelling all the way across the world. Can't wait to roll through the endless possibilities on offer, and am continuing to learn from the past rolling adventures of all of you on this thread. Of course, the 6/12/25V switch is an excuse to buy even more tubes now!
> 
> First impressions just with some basic RCA 6080s and the 13D1 are stupendous. This is definitely one of the best amps I have heard at any price point and design. Sound is effortless, details galore and the tone is most enjoyable.
> 
> ...


Congrats and enjoy...Glenn's amps are very hard to come by these days.
Nice pics.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

chrisdrop said:


> Very glad to see it safe and sound in your steady hands (ears?). Awesome. Shipping amps terrifies me! I'm chuffed that the amp went to a great new home.
> 
> What headphones are you using?
> 
> ...


Using the amp with HD650 and HD800, two of my all time favourite headphones. They sound the best they ever have; the HD650 really sing with the GOTL, and the HD800 with the right tubes gets the right touch of added warmth and body. My other amp, a custom LF339i using 6AS7/6J5, I have had tuned to a more detailed and treble-focused signature with Mundorf caps. I think the GOTL with a slightly more rounded, warm sonic signature pairs better with a digital streaming setup, and I will be moving the LF339i to my  vinyl rig, where its characteristics complement the analogue setup perfectly.

Mixing and matching the power tubes certainly worked and made sound, and it was something I was always excited to try reading through this thread. However, in this combination, I think the tone became a little confused and congested. Will definitely take a bit of experimentation. I believe I have a pretty good grasp on the characteristics of the 6080/6AS7 family, and have some ideas I want to try out. That said, I am aware that many have advised that what we previously know about tubes and what they sound like in other amps, may be completely different in the GOTL.

Thought the red ring was just a damper, but will keep it on the metal ring in the future, thanks for the heads up!



I told myself that I would save the 'best' power tubes for later, but tonight I couldn't resist putting in a pair of GEC 6AS7 (after digging around to find 6x socket savers!). Unsurprisingly, they sound brilliant. They are my personal favourite of the 6AS7 family and continue to deliver in the GOTL with spot on tone, resonance and detail. Up front are a pair of GE 6C5, which are doing a fine job notwithstanding their tiny price tags


----------



## chrisdrop

tintinsnowydog said:


> Using the amp with HD650 and HD800, two of my all time favourite headphones. They sound the best they ever have; the HD650 really sing with the GOTL, and the HD800 with the right tubes gets the right touch of added warmth and body. My other amp, a custom LF339i using 6AS7/6J5, I have had tuned to a more detailed and treble-focused signature with Mundorf caps. I think the GOTL with a slightly more rounded, warm sonic signature pairs better with a digital streaming setup, and I will be moving the LF339i to my  vinyl rig, where its characteristics complement the analogue setup perfectly.
> 
> Mixing and matching the power tubes certainly worked and made sound, and it was something I was always excited to try reading through this thread. However, in this combination, I think the tone became a little confused and congested. Will definitely take a bit of experimentation. I believe I have a pretty good grasp on the characteristics of the 6080/6AS7 family, and have some ideas I want to try out. That said, I am aware that many have advised that what we previously know about tubes and what they sound like in other amps, may be completely different in the GOTL.
> 
> ...


... one for you to witness @bcowen


----------



## bcowen

tintinsnowydog said:


> Apologies for interrupting the tube tracer/tester talk, but an exciting development down under today! After lurking, and slowly reading through this thread since 2018, I am finally a glenn OTL owner as of today  Many thanks to @chrisdrop for making the whole purchase process of his amp seamless and easy, and glad it has landed safely after travelling all the way across the world. Can't wait to roll through the endless possibilities on offer, and am continuing to learn from the past rolling adventures of all of you on this thread. Of course, the 6/12/25V switch is an excuse to buy even more tubes now!
> 
> First impressions just with some basic RCA 6080s and the 13D1 are stupendous. This is definitely one of the best amps I have heard at any price point and design. Sound is effortless, details galore and the tone is most enjoyable.
> 
> ...


Awesome, and congrats!


----------



## bcowen

chrisdrop said:


> ... one for you to witness @bcowen


LOL!  They were probably made by RCA or Ken-Rad.


----------



## Galapac

Yes I would suspect RCA as they are similar to 5693/6SJ7s. Those tin cans are good once warmed up.


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> LOL!  They were probably made by RCA or Ken-Rad.


...or by that GE engineer that got fired in 1954 for designing tubes that sounded good


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> ...or by that GE engineer that got fired in 1954 for designing tubes that sounded good


He was beaten to death by a mob of angry accountants.


----------



## mordy

tintinsnowydog said:


> Using the amp with HD650 and HD800, two of my all time favourite headphones. They sound the best they ever have; the HD650 really sing with the GOTL, and the HD800 with the right tubes gets the right touch of added warmth and body. My other amp, a custom LF339i using 6AS7/6J5, I have had tuned to a more detailed and treble-focused signature with Mundorf caps. I think the GOTL with a slightly more rounded, warm sonic signature pairs better with a digital streaming setup, and I will be moving the LF339i to my  vinyl rig, where its characteristics complement the analogue setup perfectly.
> 
> Mixing and matching the power tubes certainly worked and made sound, and it was something I was always excited to try reading through this thread. However, in this combination, I think the tone became a little confused and congested. Will definitely take a bit of experimentation. I believe I have a pretty good grasp on the characteristics of the 6080/6AS7 family, and have some ideas I want to try out. That said, I am aware that many have advised that what we previously know about tubes and what they sound like in other amps, may be completely different in the GOTL.
> 
> ...


Congratulations on the GOTL! It takes time to get used to it, and as you stated, familiar tubes sound different in the GOTL. As regards mixing tubes, I don't think it is a problem as long as the current draw does not exceed 13A total (can be stretched to 14A with fan cooling).
Sometimes you feel like a chef, adding a bit of that or a bit of this to try to tune the sound. However, at this point I am using just simple ingredients - 4 tubes instead of (sometimes) 10!


----------



## Ollie the bear (Mar 1, 2021)

Hi folks! I just want to bring to everyone’s attention the fact that Glenn hasn’t been seen online for few months now. I speak for myself but I believe there’s few other people who are in the same boat as I. I’m one of the people on the list waiting for an amp to be built. I haven’t received any communication from him for months. My question is simple: does anyone know him personally and does anyone have direct contact with him? I hope I don’t come across as insensitive, I’m aware of his health situation but I think a few people here would like to know if we should expect the amps to be built at all. Thank you!


----------



## Smallpie (Feb 28, 2021)

Ollie the bear said:


> Hi folks! I just want to bring to everyone’s attention the fact that Glenn hasn’t been seen online for few months now. I speak for myself but I believe there’s few other people who are in the same boat as I. I’m one of the people on the list waiting for an amp to be built. I haven’t received any communication from him for months. My question is simple: does anyone knows him personally and does anyone has direct contact with him? I hope I don’t come across as insensitive, I’m aware of his health situation but I think a few people here would like to know if we should expect the amps to be built at all. Thank you!


This pandemic has been hard on all and think once it passes hopefully we will get more information. It must be hard, even without the pandemic, to work a full time job and build amps. Especially when factoring in free time outside of both those endeavors. I hope Glenn is doing alright and hope his health is alright. Hopefully a lot will change towards the middle end of this year in all aspects of life and what's going on.

I myself have not heard from him for a couple months ago when messaging him about also building an amp. I do know I've heard a few people say they have in fact talked to him about an ongoing build. maybe they can chime in about their experience.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

Just before I received the GOTL, I had been playing around with 12AU7s quite extensively. After trying most of the options, I found I much preferred 6SN7 type tubes over the miniatures, mainly due to some distortion in the extremities I could never really quite unhear in almost all 12AU7s I tried. 

One grand exception for me is the Hivac CV491, made at the Ruislip factory with a beautiful slanted D getter, and denoted by KB/HR date codes (cannot see it the way the tube/adapter is positioned!). It has such an incredible tone, clarity and weight that places it far above any other 12AU7 in my experience (Granted, I haven't tried the GEC B329 or Lorenz offerings, prices being inhibitory!). The Hivacs I have test very low, and are temperamental to noise, but on my tester show no signs of leakage. To my pleasant surprise it is noiseless in the GOTL tonight, with 2x RCA 6AS7G. I ought to try my luck with some higher gain output tubes next! Right now in this configuration, it sounds better than ever. I am looking forward to trying all the 12AU7s I have again in the GOTL to see if it will cure my 'distorted' perception of their sound. The RCAs certainly compensates for any issues in the bass, and mellows out the treble.


An interesting snippet about the Ruislip factory:

"As part of the precautions against airborne dirt which Hivac have adopted at their new Ruislip valve factory, the atmospheric pressure in the air-conditioned assembly shop is kept above normal to ensure that no dust can enter from outside. The same principle is used on some of the individual assembly benches, which are enclosed and have glass shields in front to prevent any moisture from the assemblers' breath from condensing on the electrode components.

The hospital-like nature of the factory is further enhanced by polished wood-block floors, a self-supporting roof structure to avoid dirt-collecting stanchions and girders, and white nylon overalls and head scarves for the girl operatives. All supplies of electricity, gas, water and vacuum are piped into the main shop from a specially constructed basement so that contaminating oil fumes and dust-harbouring pipes and wires are eliminated.

The factory is mainly concerned with manufacturing subminiature valves, and the precautions are particularly necessary when work is being done on special quality types in this category."







I have tubes scattered and stored all over the house right now. These are just the ones that happened to end up on my desk in the study right now. So excited to roll them all in this amazing amp


----------



## chrisdrop

tintinsnowydog said:


> Just before I received the GOTL, I had been playing around with 12AU7s quite extensively. After trying most of the options, I found I much preferred 6SN7 type tubes over the miniatures, mainly due to some distortion in the extremities I could never really quite unhear in almost all 12AU7s I tried.
> 
> One grand exception for me is the Hivac CV491, made at the Ruislip factory with a beautiful slanted D getter, and denoted by KB/HR date codes (cannot see it the way the tube/adapter is positioned!). It has such an incredible tone, clarity and weight that places it far above any other 12AU7 in my experience (Granted, I haven't tried the GEC B329 or Lorenz offerings, prices being inhibitory!). The Hivacs I have test very low, and are temperamental to noise, but on my tester show no signs of leakage. To my pleasant surprise it is noiseless in the GOTL tonight, with 2x RCA 6AS7G. I ought to try my luck with some higher gain output tubes next! Right now in this configuration, it sounds better than ever. I am looking forward to trying all the 12AU7s I have again in the GOTL to see if it will cure my 'distorted' perception of their sound. The RCAs certainly compensates for any issues in the bass, and mellows out the treble.
> 
> ...


Thanks for bringing the thread some pretty pix n tube comments


----------



## mordy

Lot's of fun! Take your time - some impressions of how the tubes sound will change, both with the tubes and with you.
After a while it may happen that you will listen more to the music and less to the amp......Until the next new tubes show up lol. (At least in my case).


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Ollie the bear said:


> Hi folks! I just want to bring to everyone’s attention the fact that Glenn hasn’t been seen online for few months now. I speak for myself but I believe there’s few other people who are in the same boat as I. I’m one of the people on the list waiting for an amp to be built. I haven’t received any communication from him for months. My question is simple: does anyone know him personally and does anyone have direct contact with him? I hope I don’t come across as insensitive, I’m aware of his health situation but I think a few people here would like to know if we should expect the amps to be built at all. Thank you!


Agree to the point that no one is insensitive here who is in queue to posses Glenn's amp. In fact we can wait but the lack of communication is not helping at all & adding to the restlessness. I hope he is doing well & could respond soon.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

Another roll with superb tone, Melz 6H12C with TS BGRP. The bass is enormous on the TS and gives the HD800 just the right amount of weight from mid-bass down. I’ve really liked the Melz output tubes from the get go, fantastic treble detail, and neutral tone. I ought to grab another pair to complete the sextet 

i love to listen to the gear as much as the music, both are equally enjoyable for me. I usually begin by focusing on the gear and take down some listening notes. Afterwards I just sit back and enjoy the sound- and the glow of course!


----------



## chrisdrop

Beautiful setup. I like the dark glow shot. I'd not listened to the TSBGRP with the Melz - missed opportunity!


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> I'd not listened to the TSBGRP with the Melz - missed opportunity!


The GOTL provides 1.2572 Gazillion combinations (I have meticulously calculated ) - one cannot expect to try all of them...


----------



## Zachik

A question to all the tube experts here:
Can I use 6C33C-B tubes in the GOTL? What adapters would be needed?
I have read about it, and it is an interesting Russian tube, used in MIG-25 fighter jets...
https://blog.thetubestore.com/emp-its-np-for-the-6c33c-b-tube/

Looks pretty cool, got interesting back story, and are available at reasonable prices!


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> A question to all the tube experts here:
> Can I use 6C33C-B tubes in the GOTL? What adapters would be needed?
> I have read about it, and it is an interesting Russian tube, used in MIG-25 fighter jets...
> https://blog.thetubestore.com/emp-its-np-for-the-6c33c-b-tube/
> ...


This tube is a triode; 12V and 3.3A. This means that you need 4 of them to use as output tubes. The combined current draw will be 13.2A which is above the rating of the GOTL. You will need a separate external 20A power supply supplying 12V (a scavenged PS from a PC with enough amps will do) and two special dual adapters 2 x 6c33c to 6SN7 with leads for the external power.
Sounds interesting but probably too much bother, especially since there are so many nice power tubes out there that are just plug and play.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6s33s.html

On the other hand there is another Russian 12V pentode, the GU-50 (0.8A). This tube is extremely rugged and has 4 (!) getters and was modeled on a Telefunken LS50 tube. It could be used as a driver by having a pair in a special dual adapter 2xGU-50 to 6SN7. Since the GOTL has a 12V switch you only need the dual adapter to use it.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_gu-50.html

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ls50.html


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> A question to all the tube experts here:
> Can I use 6C33C-B tubes in the GOTL? What adapters would be needed?
> I have read about it, and it is an interesting Russian tube, used in MIG-25 fighter jets...
> https://blog.thetubestore.com/emp-its-np-for-the-6c33c-b-tube/
> ...



Well, for the most part, if there is a will there is a way. However, the "way" is sometimes difficult, as Mordy notes.

This tube can be run as either a 6 volt or a 12 volt tube. And if configured as a 6 volt tube, the heater current is 6.6 amps. So either way, an external heater power supply would be necessary. Further this is a single triode, and not a double triode, so an adapter to cobble a single triode into a double triode socket would be necessary. And last, but I'm not entirely sure, I suspect that it would require a very powerful rectifier.

But you wouldn't want a few little problems get in your way, eh?


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> A question to all the tube experts here:
> Can I use 6C33C-B tubes in the GOTL? What adapters would be needed?
> I have read about it, and it is an interesting Russian tube, used in MIG-25 fighter jets...
> https://blog.thetubestore.com/emp-its-np-for-the-6c33c-b-tube/
> ...


And regarding interesting back stories, the US made Bendix graphite plate tubes were made for ballistic missiles and can withstand tremendous g-forces and can be used at altitudes up to 60,000 feet. But we don't like to talk about it....
They also have gold plated frame grids but nobody mentions that either.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> This tube is a triode; 12V and 3.3A. This means that you need 4 of them to use as output tubes. The combined current draw will be 13.2A which is above the rating of the GOTL. You will need a separate external 20A power supply supplying 12V (a scavenged PS from a PC with enough amps will do) and two special dual adapters 2 x 6c33c to 6SN7 with leads for the external power.


I totally missed the 12V part... my bad.
I was thinking of using it as output tube (not driver), so in the 6080 / 6AS7 sockets (not in 6SN7 socket). 12V would rule that out... (no, I do not want to deal with external PSU)


gibosi said:


> This tube can be run as either a 6 volt or a 12 volt tube. And if configured as a 6 volt tube, the heater current is 6.6 amps. *So either way, an external heater power supply would be necessary*. Further this is a single triode, and not a double triode, so an adapter to cobble a single triode into a double triode socket would be necessary. And last, but I'm not entirely sure, I suspect that it would require a very powerful rectifier.


OK. I guess I cannot easily turn my GOTL into a MIG-25 after all... 

Thanks for the quick and knowledgeable responses guys!


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> the US made Bendix graphite plate tubes were made for ballistic missiles and can withstand tremendous g-forces and can be used at altitudes up to 60,000 feet.


Glenn's workmanship is very fine, but I doubt the GOTL would withstand the 60,000 feet altitude nor the g-forces if launched on board a ballistic missile


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Mar 4, 2021)

gibosi said:


> Well, for the most part, if there is a will there is a way. However, the "way" is sometimes difficult, as Mordy notes.
> 
> This tube can be run as either a 6 volt or a 12 volt tube. And if configured as a 6 volt tube, the heater current is 6.6 amps. So either way, an external heater power supply would be necessary. Further this is a single triode, and not a double triode, so an adapter to cobble a single triode into a double triode socket would be necessary. And last, but I'm not entirely sure, I suspect that it would require a very powerful rectifier.
> 
> But you wouldn't want a few little problems get in your way, eh?



I can't remember it's model number but there is a Russian rectifier that complements these.  It's cartoonishly large, sort of the tube incarnation of an ICBM, and itself has a large 5 or 6 amp heater current draw.  Glenn made a couple of adapters to use these in older GOTLs for experimentation purposes at one time, but if I'm being honest I didn't think the tube sounded good and didn't keep it.  I went all Marie Kondo on my tube stuff a few years back, and maybe shouldn't have, but the fact remains I wasn't using any of it so it went.

Glenn has made 6C33C amplifiers before for a few people, but they're bigger heaver and hotter than his other OTLs so generally the interest wasn't there.


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 5, 2021)

Xcalibur255 said:


> I can't remember it's model number but there is a Russian rectifier that complements these.  It's cartoonishly large, sort of the tube incarnation of an ICBM, and itself has a large 5 or 6 amp heater current draw.  Glenn made a couple of adapters to use these in older GOTLs for experimentation purposes at one time, but if I'm being honest I didn't think the tube sounded good and didn't keep it.  I went all Marie Kondo on my tube stuff a few years back, and maybe shouldn't have, but the fact remains I wasn't using any of it so it went.
> 
> Glenn has made 6C33C amplifiers before for a few people, but they're bigger heaver and hotter than his other OTLs so generally the interest wasn't there.



Probably the 5U8C...Glenn shipped me one with my GEL3N amp.  It is huge.  5 amp heater draw I believe.


----------



## triod750

They were used in hearing aids in the fifties, together with imported DL66 tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> Probably the 5U8C...Glenn shipped me one with my GEL3N amp.  It is huge.  5 amp heater draw I believe.


I believe that's the one, yes!  The filament is so thick, on another level from any other tube I've held in my hands.


----------



## triod750

Regarding Melz 6H12C/6N12S, I received this from an tubeophile with a Russian wife: http://audio-db.info/AudioDB/BazaPraktiki/Usilenie/Lampy/Alfavit/6N/6N12S
A translation would be welcome.
Can only say that I agree with Eugen Komissarov


----------



## mordy

triod750 said:


> Regarding Melz 6H12C/6N12S, I received this from an tubeophile with a Russian wife: http://audio-db.info/AudioDB/BazaPraktiki/Usilenie/Lampy/Alfavit/6N/6N12S
> A translation would be welcome.
> Can only say that I agree with Eugen Komissarov


----------



## mordy

You too, dance from the stove?


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> You too, dance from the stove?


haha - I wonder what that means... either google translate got it wrong, or maybe an expression we do not have in English?


----------



## gibosi

In the right column of text, I am very curious to learn what 300 and 500 indicate.


----------



## gibosi

gibosi said:


> In the right column of text, I am very curious to learn what 300 and 500 indicate.



After doing a little digging, it turns out that the maximum plate voltage for the 6N12S is 300V (typically, plus or minus 10%). 

You might find this document interesting. The 6N12S is listed on page 37.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg...VPUB-C13-6925b02fb6dcaa88935be001eb551b4c.pdf

And I have no idea what the number 500 represents in the data sheet @triod750 posted.

Recently I measured B+ in my Glenn OTL with six 6N12S and found the value to be 320V. What this tells me is six of these tubes is fine, but running two or four is not a good idea. As the number of tubes in the output goes down, B+ goes up. And since the value is at max for six, I would not recommend less than that.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 5, 2021)

Changing the subject, I've been rolling through different drivers and rectifiers to discover which combinations work well with the Telefunken 6080. Below is a GEC U18/20 rectifier and a pair of Ken Rad #76. And to my old ears, this is a very enjoyable roll.


----------



## triod750

gibosi said:


> After doing a little digging, it turns out that the maximum plate voltage for the 6N12S is 300V (typically, plus or minus 10%).
> 
> You might find this document interesting. The 6N12S is listed on page 37.
> 
> ...


Do you have a guess on what the number 100 above 500 means? The text is almost the same for both numbers but for 500 it says something about 'automaticxxxxx'.
I guess 500 is the number of tubes you need to be on the safe side if you run four or two in GOTL.


----------



## gibosi

triod750 said:


> Do you have a guess on what the number 100 above 500 means? The text is almost the same for both numbers but for 500 it says something about 'automaticxxxxx'.
> I guess 500 is the number of tubes you need to be on the safe side if you run four or two in GOTL.



Unfortunately, I have no idea, as the National Bureau of Standards document I posted above does not show a corresponding value of 100.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> a pair of Ken Rad #76


2nd time this past day or two that I see #76 used... Gotta find some (and adapters)...


----------



## triod750 (Mar 6, 2021)

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, I have no idea, as the National Bureau of Standards document I posted above does not show a corresponding value of 100.


How about this for the number 100: https://www.qsl.net/dl7avf/roehren/trimax2.html#6N12S

I cannot read and understand this information. I am severly lacking. I'm sorry but not ashamed.

Se also: https://www.qsl.net/dl7avf/roehren/xref6n.html


----------



## gibosi

triod750 said:


> How about this for the number 100: https://www.qsl.net/dl7avf/roehren/trimax2.html#6N12S
> 
> I cannot read and understand this information. I am severly lacking. I'm sorry but not ashamed.
> 
> Se also: https://www.qsl.net/dl7avf/roehren/xref6n.html



Well, it appears to be "Heater-to-Cathode Voltage", and it would appear that this value is only relevant for circuit designers, so I intend to ignore it.


----------



## triod750 (Mar 8, 2021)

I'm in good company then - thank you very much!


gibosi said:


> In the right column of text, I am very curious to learn what 300 and 500 indicate.


The text before '500' says "Största motstånd i nätkretsen med automatbias (floating bias). kOhm" 'Largest/biggest (?) resistance in circuit with auto/floating bias in kOhm'. Translated by  a Swedish fellow with a Russian wife. Wooha!

Found curves!
https://tehnodoka.ru/spravkalamp/6n12s.php


----------



## L0rdGwyn

triod750 said:


> I'm in good company then - thank you very much!
> 
> The text before '500' says "Största motstånd i nätkretsen med automatbias (floating bias). kOhm" 'Largest/biggest (?) resistance in circuit with auto/floating bias in kOhm'. Translated by  a Swedish fellow with a Russian wife. Wooha!
> 
> ...



That is the maximum value of grid leak resistor.  The grid leak makes up part of the load for the previous stage and the DC path to ground for any grid current.  You typically want to use the highest value possible per the datasheet.  Usually it is around 500Kohm to 1Meg.

But there are some oddball tubes that can only take a small grid leak, like type 50, only 10Kohm!  Which makes a bit of a problem.  In this case, you can use a choke instead since a choke represent a high AC impedance (fulfills the role as the load for the previous stage), but a low DC resistance (fulfills the requirement for a DC path to ground for grid current).

Here is a picture as an example in cathode bias (autobias).  They have sort of made a mistake though, the grid stopper should be connected directly at the grid to ward off parasitic oscillations.  Note that because most tubes do not draw much grid current when operating in class A1 (grid always negative relative to the cathode), there is little-to-no voltage drop across this large value resistor, so the grid is at ground potential.  The cathode is then made positive relative to the grid as current passes through the cathode bias resistor.  This can be restated as the grid being negative relative to the cathode, even if the grid is at 0V and the cathode is positive.  That's how cathode bias works, in a nutshell.


----------



## triod750

Could you please repeat that in Greek so I have a chance to understand?

Thank you for your effort. 

What about them curves?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

triod750 said:


> Could you please repeat that in Greek so I have a chance to understand?
> 
> Thank you for your effort.
> 
> What about them curves?



Well, they look okay, not sure where they bias in the GOTL, but would want to operate them at a highish current to get the load line out of the large knee of the curves!


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Well, they look okay, not sure where they bias in the GOTL, but would want to operate them at a highish current to get the load line out of the large knee of the curves!



FYI, most people are using these as output tubes, preferably 3 per side.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> FYI, most people are using these as output tubes, preferably 3 per side.



Sounds like people like the results too.  Better than 6BX7 would you say, @gibosi ?  Well I have tried to chime in with technical explanations in Glenn's absence as best as I am able, so happy to help when it comes to interpreting datasheets and whatnot.


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Sounds like people like the results too.  Better than 6BX7 would you say, @gibosi ?  Well I have tried to chime in with technical explanations in Glenn's absence as best as I am able, so happy to help when it comes to interpreting datasheets and whatnot.



Your efforts are much appreciated. 

And I don't know as I would say the 6N12S is "better." To my mind it sounds like a Melz or Telefunken 6BX7, if they existed. And even so, I'm sure that some would still prefer RCA or Sylvania or what have you.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Your efforts are much appreciated.
> 
> And I don't know as I would say the 6N12S is "better." To my mind it sounds like a Melz or Telefunken 6BX7, if they existed. And even so, I'm sure that some would still prefer RCA or Sylvania or what have you.


I found that the Melz 6N12S has an incisive (biting) quality with great clarity and instrument separation and with the right driver tube(s) they can sound excellent. -Did not experience the same with the 6BL/X7 tubes.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I found that the Melz 6N12S has an incisive (biting) quality with great clarity and instrument separation and with the right driver tube(s) they can sound excellent. -Did not experience the same with the 6BL/X7 tubes.



True. But as I tried to point out, if Melz had made 6BL/X7 tubes they would likely sound very similar to the 6N12S. The "Melz factory sound".


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Last night, after using the Z63 tubes for around 12 hours, there was a pop and one of the tubes started to glow significantly brighter than before. I shut off the amp right away.
> Does this very much increased brightness indicate that the tube is failing?
> Is it dangerous to continue using it?


That happen to me 4-5 years ago i had a 274B Sophia Princess that became very bright but was still working i to shut it off right away .Never check on it after


----------



## mordy

MIKELAP said:


> That happen to me 4-5 years ago i had a 274B Sophia Princess that became very bright but was still working i to shut it off right away .Never check on it after


I immediately shut off the amp with that Z63 tube that suddenly made a popping sound and then turned very bright. The next time I turned on the amp it did not turn on - a fiery death...


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Mar 9, 2021)

MIKELAP said:


> That happen to me 4-5 years ago i had a 274B Sophia Princess that became very bright but was still working i to shut it off right away .Never check on it after



Was it just the filament that became brighter than normal, or did it seem like there was a sort of hazy glow throughout the tube?  The former can be bad but can also be normal for certain types of tubes.  The latter is always bad and usually means your tube has lost its vacuum integrity and is now gassy.  Tubes are only useful as display pieces once they become gassy.

edit:  I suppose I should point out that technically mercury vapor tubes exist and do exhibit a hazy blue glow as normal operation before somebody else does, but that's clearly not what we're talking about here.


----------



## mordy (Mar 9, 2021)

I am testing an ST type tube with an anode cap in the 6J7 family. It sounds very good with one caveat - of the three different makes I have, all of them hum to a greater or lesser degree. It is a low level hum (similar to 50hz hum) that does not vary with the amp volume; other tubes in the same family are quiet.
By wrapping the tubes in aluminum foil AND grounding the foil to the amp chassis I can reduce the hum - some of the sets are still objectionably humming, and some less so, but the hum is there even though some of tubes are listenable.
I am sure that the hum comes from the tubes themselves. Does anybody have an idea of how to eliminate it?


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> I am testing an ST type tube with an anode cap in the 6J7 family. It sounds very good with one caveat - of the three different makes I have, all of them hum to a greater or lesser degree. It is a low level hum (similar to 50hz hum) that does not vary with the amp volume; other tubes in the same family are quiet.
> By wrapping the tubes in aluminum foil AND grounding the foil to the amp chassis I can reduce the hum - some of the sets are still objectionably humming, and some less so, but the hum is there even though some of tubes are listenable.
> I am sure that the hum comes from the tubes themselves. Does anybody have an idea of how to eliminate it?



Is the wire going to the anode cap shielded (with one end of the shield tied to ground)?  That's helped in the past for me.


----------



## tubebuyer2020

mordy said:


> By wrapping the tubes in aluminum foil AND grounding the foil to the amp chassis I can reduce the hum - some of the sets are still objectionably humming, and some less so, but the hum is there even though some of tubes are listenable.



Here is a controversial opinion: that is completely normal, leaving tubes exposed is a modern thing.


----------



## mordy

bcowen said:


> Is the wire going to the anode cap shielded (with one end of the shield tied to ground)?  That's helped in the past for me.


The adapters are from Deyan and I am sure that the anode wires are well shielded. As I mentioned, other similar tubes do not make a humming noise with the same setup.


----------



## Smallpie (Mar 10, 2021)

Has anybody tried out a cossor fat bottle cv378? Any comparisons Between that and the skinny bottle version? Is the fat bottle worth the extra price?


----------



## gibosi

The fat bottle is actually a Cossor 53KU and the skinny bottle is a Mullard GZ37, and yes, they sound quite different. To my ears, the 53KU is better and in fact, it is one of my favorites. Whether it is actually worth the extra price is a question that only you can answer.


----------



## Smallpie

gibosi said:


> The fat bottle is actually a Cossor 53KU and the skinny bottle is a Mullard GZ37, and yes, they sound quite different. To my ears, the 53KU is better and in fact, it is one of my favorites. Whether it is actually worth the extra price is a question that only you can answer.


Thanks, both say cv378 so I am just referring them that way. I don’t understand how they are different.(53ku vs. gz37)Interested in getting a skinny bottle as well as a fat bottle to see how they compare.


----------



## gibosi

CV378 is a British military specification, and both the Cossor and the Mullard match up. And every so often, I see a Mullard GZ33 labeled as a CV378, as well, because it too is very similar electrically. But even though they are very similar electrically, they sound quite different. In the same way, during WWII, the US government referred to all 6SN7 as VT-231 and the British referred to all 6SN7 as CV1986 / CV1988. But of course, not all 6SN7 sound the same.

The Cossor is among the darkest rectifiers I own (about 100), with very good bass, and in a fairly bright system it complements brighter output tubes and drivers very well. Recently, I have been enjoying the Cossor with Telefunken 6080.

In my opinion, the GZ37 is nothing special. But as is typical for most Mullard tubes, it too is dark with a rather rich upper bass and lower midrange. However, to my ears, the GZ32 is the best of the Mullards. But again, my ears and my gear. YMMV.


----------



## Monsterzero

Does anyone have a quiet pair of metal base Sylvania 6 or 12j5s they can spare for sale?


----------



## Smallpie

I plugged my potato masher 5r4wgb in and before the filament glows at the top there are purple sparks. I have a video of it if anybody wants to see.

the tube seems to work fine after the initial spark but what could the problem be?


----------



## Monsterzero

Akiravelvet said:


> I plugged my potato masher 5r4wgb in and before the filament glows at the top there are purple sparks. I have a video of it if anybody wants to see.
> 
> the tube seems to work fine after the initial spark but what could the problem be?


I believe @gibosi once told me that the Chatham potato masher wont work in the GOTL.
I use them in my DAC though. Good sound for very little plata


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> I believe @gibosi once told me that the Chatham potato masher wont work in the GOTL.
> I use them in my DAC though. Good sound for very little plata



No it wasn't me. 

The potato masher should work fine. After all, it is just a ruggedized 5r4. It would appear that the tube is arching. In some tubes, it is necessary to preheat the cathode before applying plate voltage to prevent arching, but this shouldn't be necessary with the potato masher. So I would suspect that the potato masher is slightly defective. But it just might work fine for many years before going to tube heaven.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> No it wasn't me.
> 
> The potato masher should work fine. After all, it is just a ruggedized 5r4. It would appear that the tube is arching. In some tubes, it is necessary to preheat the cathode before applying plate voltage to prevent arching, but this shouldn't be necessary with the potato masher. So I would suspect that the potato masher is slightly defective. But it just might work fine for many years before going to tube heaven.


Off topic but the potato masher reminds me of a definition of a banjo: "Acoustic egg slicer".


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Off topic but the potato masher reminds me of a definition of a banjo: "Acoustic egg slicer".



When you see it, the name makes sense. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jan-CAHG-5R4WGA-Rectifier-Tube-Chatham-Electronics-Tung-Sol/284207481384


----------



## Smallpie

Monsterzero said:


> I believe @gibosi once told me that the Chatham potato masher wont work in the GOTL.
> I use them in my DAC though. Good sound for very little plata


Yea Lukas told me it’s the best tube with their Lampizator Atlantic dac AND it’s super cheap! Can’t get better than that. It doesn’t spark in the Dac at all


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Does anyone have a quiet pair of metal base Sylvania 6 or 12j5s they can spare for sale?



https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-Sylv...838424?hash=item443fe65f58:g:PXIAAOSwupRdDpEk

I have a pair of these 12 volt ...they do not have the metal base, I have not seen any 12 volt with metal base...but these tubes sound real good,
just like about all tubes from the 40's seem to sound nice to me.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Ma...640029?hash=item2617e4fc5d:g:eEUAAOSwS3NclGRt

There is also the metal can Sylvania's  which are cheaper, but I have no experience with those.


----------



## mordy (Mar 11, 2021)

whirlwind said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-Sylv...838424?hash=item443fe65f58:g:PXIAAOSwupRdDpEk
> 
> I have a pair of these 12 volt ...they do not have the metal base, I have not seen any 12 volt with metal base...but these tubes sound real good,
> just like about all tubes from the 40's seem to sound nice to me.
> ...


I looked on eBay yesterday and although most Sylvania 12J5 have black bases, there was a single sold with the metal base, but it appears very rare. The 6J5/VT-94 metal base are much easier  to find.


----------



## Monsterzero

I grabbed these. Hopefully the 5th time is the charm.

https://tubeworldexpress.com/collec...5gt-sylvania-lightning-logo-nos-1945-1946-p11


----------



## chrisdrop

Monsterzero said:


> I grabbed these. Hopefully the 5th time is the charm.
> 
> https://tubeworldexpress.com/collec...5gt-sylvania-lightning-logo-nos-1945-1946-p11


Did you really get 4x bad pairs via eBay? That is epic bad luck! Were they listed as NOS? What evil sellers shall we boycott ?


----------



## Monsterzero

Yeah, four crappy pairs, and one was listed as NOS. All of my other j5/L63 purchases have worked out fine, but the universe doesnt want me using Sylvania for some reason.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I have a pair of these 12 volt ...they do not have the metal base, I have not seen any 12 volt with metal base...but these tubes sound real good,
> just like about all tubes from the 40's seem to sound nice to me.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Ma...640029?hash=item2617e4fc5d:g:eEUAAOSwS3NclGRt





chrisdrop said:


> Did you really get 4x bad pairs via eBay? That is epic bad luck! Were they listed as NOS? What evil sellers shall we boycott ?


One of the pairs I bought was from the seller Whirlwind linked.  Another pair was from a seller Keenan messaged me about. Im not suggesting boycotts, as Ive never tried to return them. I just chalked it up to bad luck and bought a different pair.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> One of the pairs I bought was from the seller Whirlwind linked.  Another pair was from a seller Keenan messaged me about. Im not suggesting boycotts, as Ive never tried to return them. I just chalked it up to bad luck and bought a different pair.


All 8 tubes (4 pairs) were bad?? You were not able to match 1 good pair out of 8 tubes?
(if so - I agree it is a massive bad luck...)


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> All 8 tubes (4 pairs) were bad?? You were not able to match 1 good pair out of 8 tubes?
> (if so - I agree it is a massive bad luck...)


nah, but different production years, appearance, some 6v others 12v.... I suppose i could have cobbled together a makeshift pair.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> nah, but different production years, appearance, some 6v others 12v.... I suppose i could have cobbled together a makeshift pair.


Yeah, you may be able to make a pair. Here's to you receiving a silent set


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, you may be able to make a pair. Here's to you receiving a silent set


Not too silent... need to make some loud metal music for MZ!


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> All 8 tubes (4 pairs) were bad?? You were not able to match 1 good pair out of 8 tubes?
> (if so - I agree it is a massive bad luck...)


You're pretty spoiled...not _everyone_ has a tube tester.


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> You're pretty spoiled...not _everyone_ has a tube tester.


True, but you do not need a tester to find a pair that sounds quiet 
Also, I got a pair of tubes that tested VERY VERY far (like 30% difference), and still - on my amp, they sound totally balanced! I was surprised...


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Not too silent... need to make some loud metal music for MZ!


Funny...im listening to some modern heavy psych tonight, which many would consider to be metal. Its the very first time in well over a year ive listened to metal for more than a couple songs.

Ive been on a massive Americana/Country and Southern rock kick the past year or more.


----------



## Velozity

Akiravelvet said:


> Has anybody tried out a cossor fat bottle cv378? Any comparisons Between that and the skinny bottle version? Is the fat bottle worth the extra price?




Yes and and an emphatic YESSSS!  I think I posted pictures here somewhere.  It's a toss-up for me which is my favorite rectifier.  Either the Cossor 53KU or GEC U18/20.  Just depends what I'm listening to.  Well worth the cost if you can find one.  And they last for a long time from what I hear.


----------



## Smallpie

Velozity said:


> Yes and and an emphatic YESSSS!  I think I posted pictures here somewhere.  It's a toss-up for me which is my favorite rectifier.  Either the Cossor 53KU or GEC U18/20.  Just depends what I'm listening to.  Well worth the cost if you can find one.  And they last for a long time from what I hear.


Nice, I have a gz34 metal base, 53ku(incoming), and U52. The only last one I really want is a 422a.


----------



## Velozity

Akiravelvet said:


> Nice, I have a gz34 metal base, 53ku(incoming), and U52. The only last one I really want is a 422a.


Well with the 422A that's the elite quad right there.  No need for another rectifier for life probably.


----------



## whirlwind

Velozity said:


> Yes and and an emphatic YESSSS!  I think I posted pictures here somewhere.  It's a toss-up for me which is my favorite rectifier.  Either the Cossor 53KU or GEC U18/20.  Just depends what I'm listening to.  Well worth the cost if you can find one.  And they last for a long time from what I hear.



These are both great rectifiers..Cossor 53KU is my favorite.  GEC U18/20 is top notch too, as you say depends on what you are listening too and what headphone you are using.

I really like the GZ32 also, even though it does not get many accolades. I have been using it this past week while listening to my ZMF Ori.
The Ori is my hardest to drive headphone and is the reason I purchased the GEL3N. I wanted more from the Ori than the GOTL could provide.  The Ori does not get much attention these days on head-fi as there are many newer models of headphones....but it is still a great headphone and the one that is the most fun of all of my cans.


----------



## bcowen

Velozity said:


> Yes and and an emphatic YESSSS!  I think I posted pictures here somewhere.  It's a toss-up for me which is my favorite rectifier.  Either the Cossor 53KU or GEC U18/20.  Just depends what I'm listening to.  Well worth the cost if you can find one.  And they last for a long time from what I hear.


I have a pair of Mullard CV378's (GZ37's) that have been in my Jota (speaker) amp for close to 20 years with likely around 10k hours on them.  Still playing, still sound great.  I have some backups, but at the rate these things are going they may outlast me.


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> I have a pair of Mullard CV378's (GZ37's) that have been in my Jota (speaker) amp for close to 20 years with likely around 10k hours on them.  Still playing, still sound great.  I have some backups, but at the rate these things are going they may outlast me.


wait! WAIT!!!
Are you saying 5 sets of backup tubes might not really be necessary?!


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> wait! WAIT!!!
> Are you saying 5 sets of backup tubes might not really be necessary?!


For these particular rectifiers, maybe.  I'm not saying no.    And I only have 4 sets of backups anyway.


----------



## leftside

I've been running a Fivre 5R4GY twin D getter for the last few weeks in my DAC. Was running the Cossor 53KU (black base). Not 100% sure I can hear too many differences (I have quite a few tubes in my chain of gear), but if you pushed me I'd say the Cossor is warmer and the Fivre is more airy. Can't go wrong with any of the rectifiers mentioned on here. I also run the GZ34 metal base - but mainly to match my EL34 metal base in my preamp 

Plenty of good bargain prices rectifiers out there as well.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> I've been running a Fivre 5R4GY twin D getter for the last few weeks in my DAC. Was running the Cossor 53KU (black base). Not 100% sure I can hear too many differences (I have quite a few tubes in my chain of gear), but if you pushed me I'd say the Cossor is warmer and the Fivre is more airy. Can't go wrong with any of the rectifiers mentioned on here. I also run the GZ34 metal base - but mainly to match my EL34 metal base in my preamp
> 
> Plenty of good bargain prices rectifiers out there as well.



And I would add that in my experience, Fivre's 5R4GY, like their double triodes, puts the midrange and vocals center stage. And the Cossor is definitely darker and warmer with great bass.  Both are very good, but of course, in every system, synergy is key.


----------



## leftside

Someone grab these super nice tubes at a super cheap price. They are all early 50's Philips. Siblings to the metal base EL34 but at about 1/10th the price. Work with adapters in the GLE3N amp. I run these a lot.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-x-EL50-m...1-x-Valvo-gut-gepruft-Funke-W19S/193941132139


----------



## Velozity

gibosi said:


> And I would add that in my experience, Fivre's 5R4GY, like their double triodes, puts the midrange and vocals center stage. And the Cossor is definitely darker and warmer with great bass.  Both are very good, but of course, in every system, synergy is key.




Can't be overstated just how much synergy has to do with the performance of a tube roll.  This is my Saturday evening:  the 53KU is pitching tonight, so that means Chatham 6AS7G and Brimar 6C5G in the infield.  Audio bliss is like clockwork when you find tubes that work well together.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Someone grab these super nice tubes at a super cheap price. They are all early 50's Philips. Siblings to the metal base EL34 but at about 1/10th the price. Work with adapters in the GLE3N amp. I run these a lot.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-x-EL50-m...1-x-Valvo-gut-gepruft-Funke-W19S/193941132139



These are tempting...so I hope someone else snags them up as I really don't want to buy any more adapters!


----------



## tintinsnowydog

It's been 2 weeks since the GOTL has landed with me and I've been soaking up the awesome combination of tone, technicalities and features it has to offer. I've kept in the 4x Melz 6H12C tubes and have gotten to know a lot of driver tubes with it. Having spent all my listening time with these outputs, I feel confident to begin evaulating the differences between some driver tubes, without confusing tonal changes with the amp or the Melz's native sound. The Melz themselves are great; I found they have superb detailed high frequencies, great bass impact and slightly forward mids.

One particular driver family which I have really gotten to know better with the GOTL is the 12AU7- I was previously unimpressed with these guys and found many of them unlistenable due to unpleasant treble distortion in the past, but the GOTL has largely cured this problem, and I'm having a great time rolling these tubes again. I found myself leaning towards the British Mullard ECC82 offerings to add some warmth to the Melz.

Incidentally, I have been in contact with a local hi-fi/head-fi enthusiast (not many of us where I am!), and had the privilege of receiving some incredibly rare, early 12AU7s on loan. In light of this great opportunity, I have spent the last few days doing some comparisons between all the Mullard ECC82 variants I have on hand. In short, I think they almost all sounded distinctly different, and to the extent that differences couldn't be due to batch variation alone. The older variants sounded better to me.

*Tube 1: Hivac CV491*
One particular 12AU7 has always stood out to me in the past, the Hivac 'smooth welded plate' CV491. The one I have is from 1953 and tests low but was noise free in the GOTL. Combined with the Melz outputs, the tone was incredibly lush and musical. Bass response was textured and expansive with plenty of slam, while retaining a sense of effortlessness. The treble was refined and smooth, without any hint of harshness whilst presenting so many layers of detail. I am a big fan of classical symphonic music, and this combination allowed me to dissect any individual section of the orchestra better than ever, while still retaining a coherent stage. The mids were perhaps the tube's greatest strength; the warm fullness and slight forwardness is extremely euphonic and made for easy listening without sacrificing any technicalities. Overall, one of the best combinations of clarity and detail I have heard! This set the bar for comparison for the other variants.

*Tube 2: Mullard CV491 1593 change code*
This was my first time hearing another 'early' Mullard 12AU7. This particular one is from 1954, square getter and long welded plates. It matched my expectations that it would sound similar to the Hivac- I couldn't pick any substantial differences, except in the bass, which I found was ever so slightly more extended. However, this was only really evident on a particular test track (E E Power Biggs playing Bach's C minor Toccata and Fugue), which has an organ going down to C0 at 16Hz. It wasn't quite as earth-shattering as a KenRad with graphite 6080, but I find that to be _too _bass heavy. In other tracks, I heard no difference in bass quality.

*Tube 3: Mullard ECC82 k61 change code*
The first k61 sample I have here is from 1956, also with long welded plates and a square getter. I really did not expect to hear a great difference from the 1593, but they were obvious. I found there were less microdetails overall, and the bass was less focused in sound. The mids retained their smoothness and warmth, which made the overall presentation highly enjoyable still. However, it was clear to me that the 1593 gave more to the extremities, which resulted in a better sense of balance overall. This k61 needed more sparkle and treble detail, IMO, having heard the previous offerings.

*Tube 4: Mullard ECC82 k61 (O getter) and Tube 5: Mullard ECC82 Gf1 change code*
The 4th tube has always interested me, as it marks the exact period of transition between k61 and the Gf1 change codes. It has the characteristic Gf1 shorter plates, halo getter, and 4 digit date code dating it to 1960, but retains the old k61 change code. It also has a 'fattened' area at the base of the glass, while all other 12AU7s I have are straight at the base. Despite this difference in the glass, the internal construction and sound is identical to the Blackburn Gf1 ECC82. These are the most common Mullard Blackburn 12AU7s, and they again retain the highly musical mids of the earlier Mullards. However, I heard a big difference in the treble, which sometimes sounded harsh to me, and overall could not be described as smooth. The bass was still well extended, but not as impactful. For me, the presentation shifted to be more upper-mid to treble focused, but the result overall was not as airy, technically proficient, or sweet sounding as the earlier Mullards. I tried several Gf1 and Gf2 coded tubes between 1960-1970 production, and they all sounded the same. I picked out a uniquely letteredone for the photo; does anyone know what the J J represents? I recall reading it was a government code of some sort, but cannot info on it now!

*Tube 6: Mullard 12AU7 Made in Australia *
The last tube is a Mullard made in Australia, 1972. The only difference in construction from the British ones was a shorter top getter stem. I found it sounded very similar to the British Gf1 tubes, but with much more rolled off treble. The bass was also a little less present, but the characteristic mids were still not lost! I preferred this tube for treble-heavy music, and for mid-centric music with vocals. The Gf1 tube was still better for orchestral music overall with slightly better balance and bass support. 

Overall, the early Mullards have become one of my favourite inputs, up with the best 6SN7s. Their scarcity and price are really inhibitory though, unfortunately. I will be looking into the dual 6C4 path next as an alternative, which should yield very good results if they are anything like the 6J5-6SN7 relationship!

I have been entrusted with selling tube 2 and 3 'for the right price'. Do PM me if you are interested! I am also on the lookout for the early 6C4 tubes; MOV L77 and early Mullard/Hivac CV133/EC90- perhaps mentioning them on this thread will cause more to pop up for sale  I also wouldn't mind a pair of reasonably priced Melz 6H12C to complete the sextet! 

Family phot


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> These are tempting...so I hope someone else snags them up as I really don't want to buy any more adapters!


Same adapters also work with 4654 and EL51


----------



## leftside

tintinsnowydog said:


> It's been 2 weeks since the GOTL has landed with me and I've been soaking up the awesome combination of tone, technicalities and features it has to offer. I've kept in the 4x Melz 6H12C tubes and have gotten to know a lot of driver tubes with it. Having spent all my listening time with these outputs, I feel confident to begin evaulating the differences between some driver tubes, without confusing tonal changes with the amp or the Melz's native sound. The Melz themselves are great; I found they have superb detailed high frequencies, great bass impact and slightly forward mids.
> 
> One particular driver family which I have really gotten to know better with the GOTL is the 12AU7- I was previously unimpressed with these guys and found many of them unlistenable due to unpleasant treble distortion in the past, but the GOTL has largely cured this problem, and I'm having a great time rolling these tubes again. I found myself leaning towards the British Mullard ECC82 offerings to add some warmth to the Melz.
> 
> ...


Check out how much the Mullard 12AX7 from 1954 goes for.... Seems all the early Mullards 1955 and earlier are going for big bucks these days.


----------



## triod750

leftside said:


> Check out how much the Mullard 12AX7 from 1954 goes for.... Seems all the early Mullards 1955 and earlier are going for big bucks these days.


And how much is that? I have never been in contact with big bucks...


----------



## Smallpie

tintinsnowydog said:


> It's been 2 weeks since the GOTL has landed with me and I've been soaking up the awesome combination of tone, technicalities and features it has to offer. I've kept in the 4x Melz 6H12C tubes and have gotten to know a lot of driver tubes with it. Having spent all my listening time with these outputs, I feel confident to begin evaulating the differences between some driver tubes, without confusing tonal changes with the amp or the Melz's native sound. The Melz themselves are great; I found they have superb detailed high frequencies, great bass impact and slightly forward mids.
> 
> One particular driver family which I have really gotten to know better with the GOTL is the 12AU7- I was previously unimpressed with these guys and found many of them unlistenable due to unpleasant treble distortion in the past, but the GOTL has largely cured this problem, and I'm having a great time rolling these tubes again. I found myself leaning towards the British Mullard ECC82 offerings to add some warmth to the Melz.
> 
> ...


I thought the Melz 6H12C is a double triode driver tube and only needs one for the GOTL? How do you use 4?


----------



## gibosi

Akiravelvet said:


> I thought the Melz 6H12C is a double triode driver tube and only needs one for the GOTL? How do you use 4?



He is using them as output tubes, in the same way that many here use 6BX7 / 6BL7. However, while four 6BX7 / 6BL7 work very well, the 6N12S is not as powerful and it is best to use six if at all possible.


----------



## leftside

triod750 said:


> And how much is that? I have never been in contact with big bucks...


----------



## tintinsnowydog

leftside said:


> Check out how much the Mullard 12AX7 from 1954 goes for.... Seems all the early Mullards 1955 and earlier are going for big bucks these days.





triod750 said:


> And how much is that? I have never been in contact with big bucks...



This auction ended recently- insanity! https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EARLY-M...628206?hash=item5968665cae:g:qCYAAOSwHtxgQ2cx


----------



## triod750

leftside said:


>


I have had six deerhounds. To them, this was just another buck. The breed was used to hunt in pairs, catching and killing deer in Scotland. They never produced any big bucks for me, quite the opposite actually. I have now downsized to sloughis. (Gazelles, hares and jackals. And thieves. It's an aincent touareg breed). A water vole is all I have been delivered so far. Thankfully.


----------



## MIKELAP

Xcalibur255 said:


> Was it just the filament that became brighter than normal, or did it seem like there was a sort of hazy glow throughout the tube?  The former can be bad but can also be normal for certain types of tubes.  The latter is always bad and usually means your tube has lost its vacuum integrity and is now gassy.  Tubes are only useful as display pieces once they become gassy.
> 
> edit:  I suppose I should point out that technically mercury vapor tubes exist and do exhibit a hazy blue glow as normal operation before somebody else does, but that's clearly not what we're talking about here.


Ya filament got way brighter than usual scary lol.Should check it up close.


----------



## triod750

tintinsnowydog said:


> This auction ended recently- insanity! https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EARLY-M...628206?hash=item5968665cae:g:qCYAAOSwHtxgQ2cx


Those bucks would have scared my deerhounds. One of them once took on four moose and a year later a bear but this would have been too rich for him!


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 14, 2021)

triod750 said:


> Those bucks would have scared my deerhounds. One of them once took on four moose and a year later a bear but this would have been too rich for him!


We have an English Shephard, a breed that most are unaware of.
Today on the FB English Shephard Society group, some lady said one of her ES's was killed by a moose last night. Broke its neck.
I'd lose my mind if my dog was killed by anything. We will be adding a Cane Corso big little brother to the family in a years time, or if we move to an extremely rural area, a Caucasian Ovcharka.

Here's two big bucks, BroLo and RoLo


----------



## Zachik

tintinsnowydog said:


> This auction ended recently- insanity! https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EARLY-M...628206?hash=item5968665cae:g:qCYAAOSwHtxgQ2cx


The 14.50 GBP shipping killed it for me...


----------



## Velozity

tintinsnowydog said:


> I will be looking into the dual 6C4 path next as an alternative, which should yield very good results if they are anything like the 6J5-6SN7 relationship!


Great idea!


----------



## leftside

tintinsnowydog said:


> This auction ended recently- insanity! https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EARLY-M...628206?hash=item5968665cae:g:qCYAAOSwHtxgQ2cx


WTH?! I know those 1600 date coded Mullard 12AX7 go for a lot of money - but I meant in the 300 GBP region. That 1600 E3 must be the very first year of production of the Mullard 12AX7 - maybe 1953? I have one from 1954, but I stopped looking for a second for a pair once I saw where prices were going.


----------



## bcowen

leftside said:


> WTH?! I know those 1600 date coded Mullard 12AX7 go for a lot of money - but I meant in the 300 GBP region. That 1600 E3 must be the very first year of production of the Mullard 12AX7 - maybe 1953? I have one from 1954, but I stopped looking for a second for a pair once I saw where prices were going.


$1550 for a single noval?  The world is truly about to spin off its axis.  Who wants to bet it's going to be used in a $500 amp?


----------



## leftside

On a related note... there was some discussion of "alternative assets" in a weekly financial newsletter that I receive on a Sunday every week. I didn't see tubes get a mention though.

*ALTERNATIVE ASSET BUBBLES*

Erin Griffith wrote in The New York Times yesterday that manias abound in alternative assets.

From crypto art to trading cards, people are engaged in “a series of manias that have gripped the financial world. For months, professional and everyday investors have pushed up the prices of stocks and real estate. Now the frenzy has spilled over into the riskiest—and in some cases, wackiest—assets, including digital ephemera and media, cryptocurrencies, collectibles like trading cards and even sneakers.”


----------



## bcowen

leftside said:


> On a related note... there was some discussion of "alternative assets" in a weekly financial newsletter that I receive on a Sunday every week. I didn't see tubes get a mention though.
> 
> *ALTERNATIVE ASSET BUBBLES*
> 
> ...


Dangit.  I was planning on tubes to fund my retirement.  Perhaps empty Amazon boxes will be a 'thing' soon and I'll get disgustingly rich...


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Dangit.  I was planning on tubes to fund my retirement.  Perhaps empty Amazon boxes will be a 'thing' soon and I'll get disgustingly rich...


Or you could market them as: (1) affordable housing in a tight housing market; (2) bases for the Cowen-branded GE-tubed IEM amplifiers...


----------



## cddc

bcowen said:


> $1550 for a single noval?  The world is truly about to spin off its axis.  Who wants to bet it's going to be used in a $500 amp?




$1550 for a single 12AX7 is definitely insane. My guess is that some crazy guy in a rich rock band bought it, as 12AX7's are used a lot in those vintage tube guitar amps. 

But again $1550 is just an insane price, a rational person won't spend his/her money like that. I guess Bill Gates won't do so, but Axl Rose in his heydays might do it...


----------



## cddc

I think people can find similar 12AX7 tubes in the $50 - $300 range, but that ebay noob (with 0 transaction record) just had to spend his/her 1120 GBPs on it...


----------



## jonathan c

cddc said:


> I think people can find similar 12AX7 tubes in the $50 - $300 range, but that ebay noob (with 0 transaction record) just had to spend his/her 1120 GBPs on it...


Minnows for the bangybang and high_wege_tube sharks 🦈 🦈


----------



## Smallpie

What are people’s combos they use to get:

-a very wide/deep soundstage?
-warm tubey sound?
-very detailed transparent sound?
- neutral signature?


----------



## cddc

jonathan c said:


> Minnows for the bangybang and high_wege_tube sharks 🦈 🦈



LOL...I guess that's how scammers like bangybang, menifee, wege_high_tube and the like can survive, huge minnow this time though


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Someone grab these super nice tubes at a super cheap price. They are all early 50's Philips. Siblings to the metal base EL34 but at about 1/10th the price. Work with adapters in the GLE3N amp. I run these a lot.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-x-EL50-m...1-x-Valvo-gut-gepruft-Funke-W19S/193941132139



OK...someone bought them...I can rest easy


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> OK...someone bought them...I can rest easy


Hopefully someone from here grabbed them. Would be nice to hear other's thoughts of those tubes being using in one of Glenn's amps.


----------



## MIKELAP

The other day i spoke about a Sophia Princess 274B that had a abnormal glow to it seemed to bright .Well today i checked it out and glass was somewhat cloudy so pretty sure its done .The other Sophia i have glass is clear.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Hopefully someone from here grabbed them. Would be nice to hear other's thoughts of those tubes being using in one of Glenn's amps.


I am doing my best to stay in the "don't buy any more tubes mode"


----------



## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> I am doing my best to stay in the "don't buy any more tubes mode"


Let me know how that works for you.  The vaccine I took has only been partially effective.


----------



## gibosi

And the vaccine hasn't worked at all for me! lol


----------



## whirlwind

bcowen said:


> Let me know how that works for you.  The vaccine I took has only been partially effective.


I know, it is hard not to pull the trigger sometimes....I am giving myself a B Grade of not buying since the new year.




gibosi said:


> And the vaccine hasn't worked at all for me! lol


Ken, don't even bother as the vaccine will in no way help you . LOL!


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I know, it is hard not to pull the trigger sometimes....I am giving myself a B Grade of not buying since the new year.
> 
> 
> 
> Ken, don't even bother as the vaccine will in no way help you . LOL!



Probably the only thing that could "cure" me is a wife. lol


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Probably the only thing that could "cure" me is a wife. lol


Ha! Maybe just keep the "girl friend" and have the best of both worlds!


----------



## bcowen

gibosi said:


> Probably the only thing that could "cure" me is a wife. lol


In some cases, the cure is worse than the disease.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Ha! Maybe just keep the "girl friend" and have the best of both worlds!



I wish! But since she lives in another country and international travel is bit too risky (for me at least), I am enjoying the "best" of being single. 



bcowen said:


> In some cases, the cure is worse than the disease.



Well in another time and place I was married for 40 years, so I completely understand your logic.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> I am doing my best to stay in the "don't buy any more tubes mode"


I am doing well this year as well, but @chrisdrop almost managed to mess me up over on the 6J5 thread. Thankfully I have those tubes, but a genuine pair of NOS would be nice to go with some Fivre boxes I have.

I got some really nice old 4699 and 4654 wartime tubes from Germany today (ordered end of December!) that I can use in my DAC, preamp, and upcoming headphone amp (can also use in the GLE3N). I'll have to post up pics once I've cleaned the pins.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Mar 16, 2021)

MIKELAP said:


> The other day i spoke about a Sophia Princess 274B that had a abnormal glow to it seemed to bright .Well today i checked it out and glass was somewhat cloudy so pretty sure its done .The other Sophia i have glass is clear.


That looks like getter burn off to me and is harmless.  If your tube is gassy you'll see a hazy nebulous glow in the tube (because there is gas in there that shouldn't be there).  That smokey film you see on the glass is a common occurrence for tubes that have been used for a decent number of hours.

The filaments getting very bright is harder to diagnose.  Some tubes do this normally, others only if they are being operated in a circuit that's slamming them with too much startup current or possibly has an incorrect first cap value for the tube.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Ha! Maybe just keep the "girl friend" and have the best of both worlds!


That is exactly what I am doing!


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I wish! But since she lives in another country and international travel is bit too risky (for me at least), I am enjoying the "best" of being single.
> 
> 
> 
> Well in another time and place I was married for 40 years, so I completely understand your logic.



Yeah, international travel is a bit risky for sure.
Maybe by sometime this summer things can get back to some type of normal, even if at a small level.
I am dying to go see some live music!
My wife and I enjoyed that little pizza joint by you that has live entertainment. They make you a pizza in about 2 minutes in that coal fire pizza oven and 
at times have some nice blues players there. I remember seeing Albert Cummings there and he did a great show, plus the place is so small he would walk around and talk to everyone.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, international travel is a bit risky for sure.
> Maybe by sometime this summer things can get back to some type of normal, even if at a small level.
> I am dying to go see some live music!
> My wife and I enjoyed that little pizza joint by you that has live entertainment. They make you a pizza in about 2 minutes in that coal fire pizza oven and
> at times have some nice blues players there. I remember seeing Albert Cummings there and he did a great show, plus the place is so small he would walk around and talk to everyone.



Hopefully it won't be too much longer before we can listen to live music or hop on a plane going to another country.


----------



## MIKELAP

Xcalibur255 said:


> That looks like getter burn off to me and is harmless.  If your tube is gassy you'll see a hazy nebulous glow in the tube (because there is gas in there that shouldn't be there).  That smokey film you see on the glass is a common occurrence for tubes that have been used for a decent number of hours.
> 
> The filaments getting very bright is harder to diagnose.  Some tubes do this normally, others only if they are being operated in a circuit that's slamming them with too much startup current or possibly has an incorrect first cap value for the tube.


Today tried the SP 274B in the WA22 .Everything looks normal


----------



## whirlwind

bcowen said:


> Let me know how that works for you.  The vaccine I took has only been partially effective.


Ha...well if I could find a nice pair of Ken Rad 6J5G, I would be tempted to fall off the wagon


----------



## chrisdrop

whirlwind said:


> Ha...well if I could find a nice pair of Ken Rad 6J5G, I would be tempted to fall off the wagon


I've got ones like these (no G). They are not expensive and have that KenRad vibe. (says the evil tube-devil on your shoulder #tubetemptation)


----------



## whirlwind

chrisdrop said:


> I've got ones like these (no G). They are not expensive and have that KenRad vibe. (says the evil tube-devil on your shoulder #tubetemptation)


I may try these at some point...really have my heart set on a pair of coke bottles though.  
I have a couple of 6/12 SN7 so I am not in any hurry


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> On a related note... there was some discussion of "alternative assets" in a weekly financial newsletter that I receive on a Sunday every week. I didn't see tubes get a mention though.
> 
> *ALTERNATIVE ASSET BUBBLES*
> 
> ...


I thought it said "speakers" but, alas, it says "sneakers" lol.


----------



## mordy

On another note, I have been playing with the idea of a pair of planar headphones - the Hifiman500. Today I saw a Massdrop offering for an updated Hifiman500 - the 
DROP + HIFIMAN HE5XX PLANAR MAGNETIC HEADPHONES​https://drop.com/buy/drop-hifiman-h...ontent=1615963285473.537305522863616768758715

The price is $220. What do you think about it?
​


----------



## Zachik

chrisdrop said:


> I've got ones like these (no G). They are not expensive and have that KenRad vibe. (says the evil tube-devil on your shoulder #tubetemptation)





whirlwind said:


> I may try these at some point...really have my heart set on a pair of coke bottles though.


My thought exactly: they're not pretty like the coke bottle ones! Who cares if they sound the same?


----------



## Xcalibur255

The description made me chuckle:  "metal rust tubes"......


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> On another note, I have been playing with the idea of a pair of planar headphones - the Hifiman500. Today I saw a Massdrop offering for an updated Hifiman500 - the
> DROP + HIFIMAN HE5XX PLANAR MAGNETIC HEADPHONES​https://drop.com/buy/drop-hifiman-he5xx?utm_placement=0&referer=YMFN92&mode=guest_open&utm_campaign=Automated Daily Promotional 2021-03-17&utm_source=SparkPost&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Daily Promotional&utm_content=1615963285473.537305522863616768758715
> 
> The price is $220. What do you think about it?
> ​


Reading thru the comments left by others, it isnt an actual re-release of the HE-500, which is a pity. Apparently its brighter than the original, with a possibly problematic 8k peak, wider staging too. Lots of the usual Hifiman QC complaints as well. 

IDK, I'd prolly grab a pair myself if it was an actual re-release of the 500. The only headphone sale that ive made that I regret was selling my HE-500. Wish I had it back, though it would probably be collecting dust like the rest of my collection since the VC came around.


----------



## gibosi

Today I realized that Mullard 6080 and Telefunken rectifiers haven't gotten much love or attention from me in quite a while, and it occurred to me that together, they just might click.

A Telefunken RGN4004, Mullard 6080 and TS 6SN7. And yes, they click rather well. 

(And for those with Lundahl transformers, Glenn is on record advising against the power-hungry RGN4004, as it draws 4 Amps of heater current.)


----------



## Smallpie

gibosi said:


> Today I realized that Mullard 6080 and Telefunken rectifiers haven't gotten much love or attention from me in quite a while, and it occurred to me that together, they just might click.
> 
> A Telefunken RGN4004, Mullard 6080 and TS 6SN7. And yes, they click rather well.
> 
> (And for those with Lundahl transformers, Glenn is on record advising against the power-hungry RGN4004, as it draws 4 Amps of heater current.)


I’m glad I grabbed two pairs of those Mullard before they sold out on Langrex.Listened for a bit last night and they sounded great.


----------



## Smallpie

gibosi said:


> Today I realized that Mullard 6080 and Telefunken rectifiers haven't gotten much love or attention from me in quite a while, and it occurred to me that together, they just might click.
> 
> A Telefunken RGN4004, Mullard 6080 and TS 6SN7. And yes, they click rather well.
> 
> (And for those with Lundahl transformers, Glenn is on record advising against the power-hungry RGN4004, as it draws 4 Amps of heater current.)


That telefunken rectifier is pretty pricey. Are there any other AZ 50’s worth trying out?


----------



## gibosi

Akiravelvet said:


> That telefunken rectifier is pretty pricey. Are there any other AZ 50’s worth trying out?



Most AZ50 were manufactured at Eindhoven, Holland, by Philips, and at Blackburn, by Mullard. Hungarian Tungsram also manufactured the AZ50, which are more often labeled PV200/600. The Tungsram will sound more like a Telefunken than the others. However, they are all nice sounding rectifiers especially if some care is taken to finding matching drivers and output tubes.


----------



## Smallpie

Wow, the first quad went to big prices and then the second auction at about half. A pair just sold this morning for $450. (About the same as the 2nd auction)

I noticed there was a lot of chatter on headfi after the first auction(complaints about the relisting with same measurements and pictures, problems with soldered pins on one of the tubes, and that some thought either it was a seller bidding it up and relisting and/or giving incorrect measurements)

after talking to the seller and seeing all their other listings I don’t believe it was shady but more or less a lazy (and financially devastating) poor choice not to take new pictures of his other quad set and remeasure the tubes. (Maybe they tested the highest possible and that’s why they put 99/99? I dunno enough to comment). I wonder if most of the bidders of the first auction was on headfi and after talking here about it a lot of the buyers were put off by it thus not bidding on the second auction?

clearly a quad of NOS bendix 6070wb are worth more than $480 as another  pair sold for $450 this morning. What your guys thoughts? How many budded on the first listing and not the 2nd? I for one did but felt disenfranchised after seeing how high it went that I ignored the second one only to realize that I wished I did bid on it. I don’t think the second auction would of been the same as I tired thus not having that pin issue on the one tube. I just pulled the trigger on a pair for $400 so the quad for $500 would have been ideal.

Who else owns these bendix tubes? Do you like them?


----------



## leftside

Mullard 6080 and Bendix 6080 are certainly some of my favorite power tubes. As with most tubes (especially by Mullard) there are many different structural changes that happened over the years, but personally I can't tell any sonic differences between the different Mullards or between the different Bendix. Mullard vs Bendix I'd say the Bendix take longer to warm up, but seem to provide a little more "grunt". I tend to use the Mullard over the Bendix as the Bendix are getting rather pricey and my amp is already plenty "grunty"


----------



## Monsterzero

Akiravelvet said:


> Who else owns these bendix tubes? Do you like them?


If its slam and ridiculously wide staging youre after, look no further. I like my pair, but prefer the 6x 6bx7s w/ VC. I dont really listen to other headphones anymore, though If I recall correctly they sounded really good with the Sennheiser HD250.


----------



## Galapac

Akiravelvet said:


> I’m glad I grabbed two pairs of those Mullard before they sold out on Langrex.Listened for a bit last night and they sounded great.


I got two pairs awhile ago myself. Do yours do that  Mullard glow when you fir them up?

Check this:  https://imgur.com/gallery/QoNZPUF


----------



## Galapac

Akiravelvet said:


> Wow, the first quad went to big prices and then the second auction at about half. A pair just sold this morning for $450. (About the same as the 2nd auction)
> 
> I noticed there was a lot of chatter on headfi after the first auction(complaints about the relisting with same measurements and pictures, problems with soldered pins on one of the tubes, and that some thought either it was a seller bidding it up and relisting and/or giving incorrect measurements)
> 
> ...


I like them but would never pay those prices for them. If you are patient you can pick them up here and there for a lot less like I did here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6080WB-Ele...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

They are getting harder to find as time passes though, once someone talks up a tube it’s all over as everyone tries to grab them. What thread were all the conversations happening on those tubes? I saw them on the bay and thought people were having a bidding war and lost sight of how much they were really bidding. When I used to sell on eBay I used to try to time my auctions to end on Friday and Saturday nights knowing a lot of people did drunk bids at that time, unfortunately overtime you got a lot of deadbeat buyers or others with buyers remorse and with the fees it wasn’t worth it anymore. 😉


----------



## raindownthunda (Mar 17, 2021)

Galapac said:


> I like them but would never pay those prices for them. If you are patient you can pick them up here and there for a lot less like I did here:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6080WB-Electron-Tube-Lot-of-1/124571031046?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> They are getting harder to find as time passes though, once someone talks up a tube it’s all over as everyone tries to grab them. What thread were all the conversations happening on those tubes? I saw them on the bay and thought people were having a bidding war and lost sight of how much they were really bidding. When I used to sell on eBay I used to try to time my auctions to end on Friday and Saturday nights knowing a lot of people did drunk bids at that time, unfortunately overtime you got a lot of deadbeat buyers or others with buyers remorse and with the fees it wasn’t worth it anymore. 😉



The prices lately have been wild. Even the Chatham versions seem to be getting pricier. Love these tubes in my bottlehead crack with ZMF headphones. Lovely enveloping slam without being too thick or muddy. It’s a shame they’re getting harder to find at good prices.


----------



## mordy

Galapac said:


> I got two pairs awhile ago myself. Do yours do that  Mullard glow when you fir them up?
> 
> Check this:  https://imgur.com/gallery/QoNZPUF


It seems to me that what you call a Mullard Glow is a quick heat feature which can be found in other makes as well. The first time it happened to me I got scared that the tube was blowing up lol.


----------



## bcowen

Galapac said:


> I like them but would never pay those prices for them. If you are patient you can pick them up here and there for a lot less like I did here:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6080WB-Electron-Tube-Lot-of-1/124571031046?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



You should be ashamed of yourself.  Thief.  I paid a much more equitable $60 for mine.


----------



## Smallpie

You guys scored some good deals. I’d be surprised to see any go that cheap anymore unless from an inexperienced seller. I’d jump on any $150 and lower.

@Galapac bummer I checked one pair and it doesn’t do that. I was really hoping it did. Maybe my other pair will!


----------



## Smallpie (Mar 17, 2021)

You guys don’t think the bendix tube is worth $200 apiece. If not what do you judge their value based on other rare totl
Quality power tubes?

it seems like 5998’s NOS go for about $150, GEC 6080 a bit higher, non bendix 6080wb’s about $125 give or take a bit.
421a at about $200-250 NOS. (Is this a better tube than the bendix or just rarer?)

5998 seem the easiest to get as they pop up a lot. The others seems harder to find.

langrex had a pair of mullard 6080’s for under $100 which seemed like a great deal!


----------



## Galapac

@Akiravelvet - Not all of them do but some of the European ones do and some Bendix as well. Seems to be the tubes that have a delayed start. I have a Bendix that does it with a blue glow.


----------



## Galapac

Some tubes command prices because they are popular and scarce. I can remember just a year or two ago tube prices were much cheaper and plentiful but over time the finite supply has been snapped up by the growing audiophile base. I think COVID had something to do with it as suddenly more people were home and had home offices and could listen to music more so the audio market has exploded during the pandemic. So supply and demand has driven the price of tubes up up up IMO.

I think the Svetlana 6N13S are a hidden gem as they sound really good for the price and mix well with other tubes, but that is suggestive as everyone’s ears are different. You can usually find a pair for $40-$45 so you will not break the bank on them.


----------



## mordy

Galapac said:


> Some tubes command prices because they are popular and scarce. I can remember just a year or two ago tube prices were much cheaper and plentiful but over time the finite supply has been snapped up by the growing audiophile base. I think COVID had something to do with it as suddenly more people were home and had home offices and could listen to music more so the audio market has exploded during the pandemic. So supply and demand has driven the price of tubes up up up IMO.
> 
> I think the Svetlana 6N13S are a hidden gem as they sound really good for the price and mix well with other tubes, but that is suggestive as everyone’s ears are different. You can usually find a pair for $40-$45 so you will not break the bank on them.


The military designation of 6N13S is 6N5S. Apparently this tube, although the same as 6N13S, 
 is made to tighter tolerances than the 6N13S. Not long ago these tubes were $5 a piece, but you can find them for less than $30/pair today. Here is one offering:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N5S-6N13S...711492?hash=item3fe75f2344:g:ua4AAOSwMoxfMXxL


----------



## whirlwind

Akiravelvet said:


> Wow, the first quad went to big prices and then the second auction at about half. A pair just sold this morning for $450. (About the same as the 2nd auction)
> 
> I noticed there was a lot of chatter on headfi after the first auction(complaints about the relisting with same measurements and pictures, problems with soldered pins on one of the tubes, and that some thought either it was a seller bidding it up and relisting and/or giving incorrect measurements)
> 
> ...


 These are definitely some of the best power tubes and one of my favorites.....the 5998 used to be my favorite when I first got my amp, but over the years the Bendix has taken over that spot.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> These are definitely some of the best power tubes and one of my favorites.....the 5998 used to be my favorite when I first got my amp, but over the years the Bendix has taken over that spot.


For a long time the GEC 6080 and the Bendix 6080WB were my favorites. Then I discovered the neutral Chatham 6AS7G, and now, the warm RCA 6AS7G. In the past the latter two never appealed to me, but at this time they pair beautifully with specific driver tubes I am using from the 6J7 family.
Life is more complicated when you don't have a single go to favorite power tube, but the rewards are there when you get the unexpected synergy with tubes that don't come to mind so readily.
And then there are the "museum pieces" of GEC 6AS7G/A1834 that are too expensive for use and are being saved lol.
Speaking of tube prices; here is a new high for Russian 6SN7 equivalent tubes:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6h8c-6sn7-...458737?hash=item3b3d9840f1:g:4t0AAOSwLtZd36rI

I used to buy the 6H8C Foton tubes for $2....


----------



## Galapac

Wow, but that seller wege_high_tubes always has an endless supply rare high end tubes.  Its like he saved all the best tubes years ago and had the foresight to keep them.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> And then there are the "museum pieces" of GEC 6AS7G/A1834 that are too expensive for use and are being saved lol.


yep


----------



## Xcalibur255

Or another, more cynical possibility:  he has bot scripts that buy up supplies from other retailers when they pop up and the he re-sells them for an additional markup for more profit.  This nonsense has been driving up the price of many things lately and these botting scripts are easy to get ahold of and use for anybody with no conscience and no problem with dragging down the consumer economy by being a "non-value add" middleman.


----------



## Galapac

Xcalibur255 said:


> Or another, more cynical possibility he has bot scripts that buy up supplies from other retailers when they pop up and the he re-sells them for an additional markup for more profit.


I think you’re right and unfortunately agree with you, no one is that lucky.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> yep


Exactly the reason I sold them back to UT. Guilt for actually using them!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm a big fan of buying tubes that are nice, but not *too* nice.  It really helps keep the OCD in check.  If there's a crooked top mica or a faded logo then I don' t have to talk myself into putting them in the amp.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'm a big fan of buying tubes that are nice, but not *too* nice.  It really helps keep the OCD in check.  If there's a crooked top mica or a faded logo then I don' t have to talk myself into putting them in the amp.


The best feeling is to use a very inexpensive tube that sounds great.


----------



## mordy

Just saw a great definition that I want to share (applies to much more than tubes):
Synergy: One plus one equals three.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> The best feeling is to use a very inexpensive tube that sounds great.





mordy said:


> Just saw a great definition that I want to share (applies to much more than tubes):
> Synergy: One plus one equals three.



While of course, the thrill of paying a little to get great sound feels awfully good, for me the real thrill is finding synergy, especially from a combination of tubes that few if any have tried. This evening, rolled in a Mullard ECC33 with the Mullard 6080s and TFK rectifier, and it's surprisingly good. I never would have thought it! Synergy.

And having majored in Mathematics, I especially like that definition of synergy: 1 + 1 = 3.


----------



## Xcalibur255

mordy said:


> The best feeling is to use a very inexpensive tube that sounds great.


That's why I've had the same 3DG4 rectifier in my GOTL for more than 10 years running now.  

I paid exactly one dollar for it, not joking.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> While of course, the thrill of paying a little to get great sound feels awfully good, for me the real thrill is finding synergy, especially from a combination of tubes that few if any have tried. This evening, rolled in a Mullard ECC33 with the Mullard 6080s and TFK rectifier, and it's surprisingly good. I never would have thought it! Synergy.
> 
> And having majored in Mathematics, I especially like that definition of synergy: 1 + 1 = 3.


Now, a real good feeling synergy is when you use $5 tubes - 1 + 1 = 5 lol


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> And having majored in Mathematics, I especially like that definition of synergy: 1 + 1 = 3.


Computer Science major here... 1+1=10   
(...and that has nothing to do with synergy!)


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> yep



I only use my GEC 6AS7G for special days...I usually listen to them on my birthday...Christmas.
I must say that I quite enjoy them though.


----------



## bcowen

gibosi said:


> And having majored in Mathematics, I especially like that definition of synergy: 1 + 1 = 3.


If you had majored in engineering the result would be the same. Gotta have that safety factor, of course.


----------



## leftside (Mar 19, 2021)

Why do I get the feeling most people on here have an engineering, computer, or math background? Computing for me. Although I like to pretend I'm a mountain biker.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Zachik said:


> Computer Science major here... 1+1=10
> (...and that has nothing to do with synergy!)


I couldn't stick with it.  I sometimes wonder if the field has changed enough in the last 25 years to make it worth trying again, but then I just sigh and the thought passes.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Why do I get the feeling most people on here have an engineering, computer, or math background? Computing for me. Although I like to pretend I'm a mountain biker.


Not me  -  health care and retail. And for the past number of years: Retired, meaning (tube) rolling along....


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> I couldn't stick with it.  I sometimes wonder if the field has changed enough in the last 25 years to make it worth trying again, but then I just sigh and the thought passes.


Has been many years since I was paid to write code!  I have been doing marketing, mostly. 
I know... I know... switched over to the dark side (at least according to my friends who still write code )


----------



## bcowen

leftside said:


> Why do I get the feeling most people on here have an engineering, computer, or math background? Computing for me. Although I like to pretend I'm a mountain biker.


I stupidly majored in Business Administration.  And after 35 years of operations management and spending most of my time trying to "motivate" people to do their friggin' jobs, I wish I'd majored in something else.  _Anything_ else.  Or become a plumber or something.


----------



## jonathan c

gibosi said:


> While of course, the thrill of paying a little to get great sound feels awfully good, for me the real thrill is finding synergy, especially from a combination of tubes that few if any have tried. This evening, rolled in a Mullard ECC33 with the Mullard 6080s and TFK rectifier, and it's surprisingly good. I never would have thought it! Synergy.
> 
> And having majored in Mathematics, I especially like that definition of synergy: 1 + 1 = 3.


Especially if it costs 1+ 1 + 1 = 2  !!


----------



## jonathan c

gibosi said:


> And having majored in Mathematics, I especially like that definition of synergy: 1 + 1 = 3.


That is also bangybang pricing rule #1.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I stupidly majored in Business Administration.  And after 35 years of operations management and spending most of my time trying to "motivate" people to do their friggin' jobs, I wish I'd majored in something else.  _Anything_ else. Or become a plumber or something.


I majored in French / Literature, had to switch gears, out of college, in a recession —-> various job types —-> graduate school —-> finance / investment management. “One never knows, do one?”...😲😒😏😊...


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> That is also bangybang pricing rule #1.


Close.  I think BangyBang is more like 1 + new silkscreen = $1000.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Close.  I think BangyBang is more like 1 + new silkscreen = $1000.


In Bb fashion, 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍...


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> I couldn't stick with it.  I sometimes wonder if the field has changed enough in the last 25 years to make it worth trying again, but then I just sigh and the thought passes.


Still plenty of Java, C and C++ programmer jobs out there. But, the Cloud has changed everything. It is a totally different world in IT compared to 25 years ago.



Zachik said:


> Has been many years since I was paid to write code!  I have been doing marketing, mostly.
> I know... I know... switched over to the dark side (at least according to my friends who still write code )


I still code. Yes you switched to the dark side


----------



## Xcalibur255

This conversation is kind of prescient for me right now actually.  I'm steadily reaching the conclusion that it's best if I do something else somewhere else, but I am struggling mightily to fill in those blanks.  We all do of course, these questions are never easy for anybody, but man do I feel lost right now.  Half of what kicked off my great 6J5 review fest in the 6J5 thread is that I really needed a little project to focus my thoughts on so that I wasn't dwelling on this ALL of the time like I've been doing.


----------



## Zachik

leftside said:


> I still code. Yes you switched to the dark side


Couple years ago, a friend reached out and asked if I wanted to join his company and switch to the dark side... Told him I am in marketing, so already switched to the dark side!
What would be considered switching to the dark side from marketing, you may ask? Apparently, sales...
(I politely declined!)


----------



## Galapac

I bridged two fields with Computer Engineering. Have worn many hats in the field. You name it, I’ve done it.
I have been in the IT field for over half my life and it has been rewarding and challenging, but lately mostly challenging.
And here I thought tech would make my job easier over time. It just keeps getting faster and faster with no signs of ever slowing down.


----------



## bcowen

Xcalibur255 said:


> This conversation is kind of prescient for me right now actually.  I'm steadily reaching the conclusion that it's best if I do something else somewhere else, but I am struggling mightily to fill in those blanks.  We all do of course, these questions are never easy for anybody, but man do I feel lost right now.  Half of what kicked off my great 6J5 review fest in the 6J5 thread is that I really needed a little project to focus my thoughts on so that I wasn't dwelling on this ALL of the time like I've been doing.


I feel for 'ya man.  I was at the same point myself several months ago.  I'd been with the company for 13 years, had a good salary, and it was a good company overall.  But a restructuring about a year ago gave me a new boss who was the most putrid piece of human garbage that's ever walked the face of this planet.  Absolute worst boss (by several orders of magnitude) I've had in my entire working career.  So even though I wasn't ready to retire, I chose to retire from _that_ situation for the sake of my mental health. Tough decision, but ultimately it was the right one (for me). I'm looking for something else (although not very hard ), and if worse comes to worse I have a 401k's worth of tubes I can peddle off.


----------



## Smallpie (Mar 19, 2021)

Instead of being silver above the getters is black with what looks like dried bubbles on the edge. These are Tung sol 6080WB.
Ignore the permanent marker scribbles on top. Does anybody have tubes like this and why does it happen? Part of flashing and produces this instead of the silver mirror look?


----------



## gibosi

Akiravelvet said:


> Instead of being silver above the getters is black with what looks like dried bubbles on the edge. These are Tung sol 6080WB.
> Ignore the permanent marker scribbles on top. Does anybody have tubes like this and why does it happen? Part of flashing and produces this instead of the silver mirror look?



It depends on the chemicals used. I have seen black to grey to silver and sometimes almost a blackish rainbow, like you would see in an oil spill. In the end, it does the job and is nothing to worry about.


----------



## Velozity (Mar 19, 2021)

Akiravelvet said:


> Instead of being silver above the getters is black with what looks like dried bubbles on the edge. These are Tung sol 6080WB.
> Ignore the permanent marker scribbles on top. Does anybody have tubes like this and why does it happen? Part of flashing and produces this instead of the silver mirror look?




Glad to see you got the tubes safely!  I honestly couldn't hear any difference between those and my Bendix slotted plate.  Maybe if I spent more time with them I could hear something, but if there's a difference it's really hard to tell.  I'm not sure why the slotted version is more popular.  I think you have some coming in?  Anyways, enjoy!

*also rubbing alcohol should take care of that sharpie on the top.  I received it that way and never got around to cleaning it off.


----------



## maxpudding

I also have a slotted bendix coming in probably by next week. In anticipation of that, I have the TS 6080WB solid graphite in the amp right now, hoping not to hear any difference cause that would mean “mo tubes mo problem”


----------



## maxpudding

bcowen said:


> ... and if worse comes to worse I have a 401k's worth of tubes I can peddle off.


Sorry to hear that

BTW, I am available 24/7 via PM 😂😅


----------



## Smallpie

Yea, I’ve never seen that color. Looks like blackened lava.

I have a few pairs of bendix/TS graphite 6080wb’s and hope they are the same as the TS are much cheaper. Looking into the tube it looks like the Bendix have small differences and some thicker parts so maybe they are more rugged or longer lasting than it’s brothers?


----------



## jonathan c

Galapac said:


> I bridged two fields with Computer Engineering. Have worn many hats in the field. You name it, I’ve done it.
> I have been in the IT field for over half my life and it has been rewarding and challenging, but lately mostly challenging.
> And here I thought tech would make my job easier over time. It just keeps getting faster and faster with no signs of ever slowing down.


Do you remember the book “Future Shock” by Alvin Toffler? The central theme in the book is the difficulty (psychological & social) in dealing with change which is occuring at an accelerating pace. This “positive second derivative” (increasing rate of change of change) is found in many avenues of life, particularly those where the management of technology is becoming less centralised and more diffuse. In effect, change becomes its own agent of change: hard to keep pace with, let alone to influence and to direct. I feel for you.


----------



## Xcalibur255

bcowen said:


> I feel for 'ya man.  I was at the same point myself several months ago.  I'd been with the company for 13 years, had a good salary, and it was a good company overall.  But a restructuring about a year ago gave me a new boss who was the most putrid piece of human garbage that's ever walked the face of this planet.  Absolute worst boss (by several orders of magnitude) I've had in my entire working career.  So even though I wasn't ready to retire, I chose to retire from _that_ situation for the sake of my mental health. Tough decision, but ultimately it was the right one (for me). I'm looking for something else (although not very hard ), and if worse comes to worse I have a 401k's worth of tubes I can peddle off.



Thanks.    I'm in a somewhat similar situation.  The tricky part is I live in an area that is kind of weird economically and it is *very* hard to find a good paying job outside of professional occupations like doctors, lawyers, etc.  I feel very fairly compensated in my current job which is making it hard to walk away, but an individual there is going out of his way to deliberately make me miserable.  I do believe some people are naturally "oil and water" but I also believe in a "live and let live" approach and just staying out of the way of those individuals.  I've never understood what some people get out of giving others a hard time just for the sake of giving them a hard time.


----------



## maxpudding

Xcalibur255 said:


> Thanks.    I'm in a somewhat similar situation.  The tricky part is I live in an area that is kind of weird economically and it is *very* hard to find a good paying job outside of professional occupations like doctors, lawyers, etc.  I feel very fairly compensated in my current job which is making it hard to walk away, but an individual there is going out of his way to deliberately make me miserable.  I do believe some people are naturally "oil and water" but I also believe in a "live and let live" approach and just staying out of the way of those individuals.  I've never understood what some people get out of giving others a hard time just for the sake of giving them a hard time.


I had a narcissistic boss a few years ago, I understand how you feel. Luckily she was quickly replaced after a review when everyone started to write letters of complaint to the higher ups.


----------



## Zachik

Xcalibur255 said:


> I do believe some people are naturally "oil and water" but I also believe in a "live and let live" approach and just staying out of the way of those individuals. I've never understood what some people get out of giving others a hard time just for the sake of giving them a hard time.


Sigh. Some people seem to have no life, so they make it their goal to make others' life miserable... Had my fair share of terrible horrible good for nothing bosses...
Luckily, I now have the nicest guy ever as my manager. Love the guy!!! 
(sorry, not trying to make you feel worse)


----------



## leftside

Galapac said:


> I bridged two fields with Computer Engineering. Have worn many hats in the field. You name it, I’ve done it.
> I have been in the IT field for over half my life and it has been rewarding and challenging, but lately mostly challenging.
> And here I thought tech would make my job easier over time. It just keeps getting faster and faster with no signs of ever slowing down.


Tell me about it... You've got to enjoy learning. Constantly. And it's not just the tech. It's also the various design methodologies, and processes that come along and then adapt - i.e Agile to SAFe. 

Anyway, back to tubes. I'm taking a couple of weeks off in April, maybe longer. Will hopefully give me some time to take some pics of tubes and post some of the more interesting ones up on here.


----------



## bcowen

maxpudding said:


> Sorry to hear that
> 
> BTW, I am available 24/7 via PM 😂😅


That's what I love so much about this HeadFi community.  People always willing to hep out.


----------



## bcowen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Thanks.    I'm in a somewhat similar situation.  The tricky part is I live in an area that is kind of weird economically and it is *very* hard to find a good paying job outside of professional occupations like doctors, lawyers, etc.  I feel very fairly compensated in my current job which is making it hard to walk away, but an individual there is going out of his way to deliberately make me miserable.  I do believe some people are naturally "oil and water" but I also believe in a "live and let live" approach and just staying out of the way of those individuals.  I've never understood what some people get out of giving others a hard time just for the sake of giving them a hard time.


I've had pretty harmonious relationships with all my bosses over the years. Some I didn't like that much, but I respected them, followed their lead, and did my best to exceed their expectations.  My previous boss (prior to the devil incarnate appearing) was one of the best ever, and I worked for him for over 10 years.  Always rave reviews, always a high level of trust (both ways), and always support and encouragement on a regular basis.  I never had any doubt he always had my back.  With Jerkemus Supremus, my back was used as storage for his knives.    This guy will get his, just a matter of time.  He doesn't fit in the company culture, and while HR has always been slow to catch on to early signs of cancer, they'll figure it out before he can do too much damage.  I hope.


----------



## whirlwind

Seem many here are in some sort of computer field.

When I graduated from high school I got a job in a calendar factory as a helper on an offset press. in a few years time i moved up to be an offset press operator and have done this for close to 45 years now...for 3 different companies.  After 45 years I have had enough of the ink and chemicals and loud noise....I am going to retire in September of this year. I so much look forward to it and getting away from the everyday grind.

I plan to do a little bit of traveling to see some music venues that I have always wanted to see. I am hoping to see more live music than ever before.


----------



## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> Seem many here are in some sort of computer field.
> 
> When I graduated from high school I got a job in a calendar factory as a helper on an offset press. in a few years time i moved up to be an offset press operator and have done this for close to 45 years now...for 3 different companies.  After 45 years I have had enough of the ink and chemicals and loud noise....I am going to retire in September of this year. I so much look forward to it and getting away from the everyday grind.
> 
> I plan to do a little bit of traveling to see some music venues that I have always wanted to see. I am hoping to see more live music than ever before.


Congrats!  And despite what you might have heard elsewhere, retirement *is* all it's cracked up to be (even when it's not entirely official).


----------



## pippen99

> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Seem many here are in some sort of computer field.
> ...


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 20, 2021)

LOL!

Yeah ear protection is important...where I work now only has two 29 inch offset presses, so the noise is not at all bad.
My first offset job probably had about 12 presses the size of the one I run now, and a few much bigger, 5 and 7 color 60 inch presses.
Always passed my hearing test every year for 27 years....but have not had one in about 6 years, my wife would say it is worse


----------



## jonathan c

whirlwind said:


> LOL!
> 
> Yeah ear protection is important...where I work now only has two 29 inch offset presses, so the noise is not at all bad.
> My first offset job probably had about 12 presses the size of the one I run now, and a few much bigger, 5 and 7 color 60 inch presses.
> Always passed my hearing test every year for 27 years....but have not had one in about 6 years, my wife would say it is worse


Hearing  ==X==  listening ....


----------



## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> LOL!
> ....but have not had one in about 6 years, my wife would say it is worse


ROFL!  I seem to have developed a narrow band hearing loss that's centered right at the frequency of my wife's voice.  Weird, huh?


----------



## Galapac

bcowen said:


> ROFL!  I seem to have developed a narrow band hearing loss that's centered right at the frequency of my wife's voice.  Weird, huh?


That’s awesome, if I could double like that one I would. Reminded me of Rodney Dangerfield...👍🏻


----------



## jonathan c (Mar 20, 2021)

bcowen said:


> ROFL!  I seem to have developed a narrow band hearing loss that's centered right at the frequency of my wife's voice.  Weird, huh?


What is really amazing is that when favourite headphones are donned, the hearing loss DISAPPEARS!  [...as Decca records used to have....ffrr...full frequency range recording...]


----------



## gibosi

This discussion reminds me of a college biology professor many years ago. He told us that for quite some time he had been slowly going deaf in his right ear.  And after some investigation he concluded that it was a sexual adaptation to marriage. While he slept, his left ear, his good ear, was on the pillow, and over the years his right ear slowly got worse and worse, and he slept better. lol


----------



## triod750

whirlwind said:


> LOL!
> 
> Yeah ear protection is important...where I work now only has two 29 inch offset presses, so the noise is not at all bad.
> My first offset job probably had about 12 presses the size of the one I run now, and a few much bigger, 5 and 7 color 60 inch presses.
> Always passed my hearing test every year for 27 years....but have not had one in about 6 years, my wife would say it is worse


Unfortunately those hearing tests mostly only cover a pretty narrow frequency range where the human voice is. What happens outside that FR is of no consideration.

We are happy when we 'pass' but...


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Always passed my hearing test every year for 27 years....but have not had one in about 6 years, my wife would say it is worse


As long as you hear 50Hz to 300Hz - you're golden! Everything else is a filler...


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> What is really amazing is that when favourite headphones are donned, the hearing loss DISAPPEARS!  [...as Decca records used to have....ffrr...full frequency range recording...]


ROFL!  That's weird too, but true.    And after 25 years of marriage I've learned that "Yes, dear" is the correct answer to 99% of the questions I didn't hear.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> ROFL!  That's weird too, but true.    And after 25 years of marriage I've learned that "Yes, dear" is the correct answer to 99% of the questions I didn't hear.


+ to 99% of the questions that I _did _hear...


----------



## whirlwind

bcowen said:


> ROFL!  I seem to have developed a narrow band hearing loss that's centered right at the frequency of my wife's voice.  Weird, huh?


Ha, yeah that is weird   ....   my wife say's I have selective hearing.


----------



## whirlwind

triod750 said:


> Unfortunately those hearing tests mostly only cover a pretty narrow frequency range where the human voice is. What happens outside that FR is of no consideration.
> 
> We are happy when we 'pass' but...


I am not sure how good the hearing test were. We would go outside to a big bus that had been gutted and equipment installed. There was a booth for each individual, I think six to eight people would be tested at a time....you put on headphones and pushed buttons for each ear when you heard a frequency.


----------



## leftside

Philips Italian 4699. I find this ST type have a little more warmth/weight to the metal base type.


----------



## triod750

I believe you need more, and more obscure, tubes. You should leave the middle-of-the-road area.


----------



## triod750

whirlwind said:


> I am not sure how good the hearing test were. We would go outside to a big bus that had been gutted and equipment installed. There was a booth for each individual, I think six to eight people would be tested at a time....you put on headphones and pushed buttons for each ear when you heard a frequency.


I have only ever done it one by one but the principle is the same. But you need to be relaxed to make it work as it should. I have a slight hearing loss and sometimes use hearing aids. They are programmed according to dr Marshall Chasin's recommendations. He is a Canadian renown audiologist, working with professional musicians. When programmed as per his advise they work a lot better for music than with the 'music program' the companies have as standard.
You can read more here: > https://www.grandpianopassion.com/2019/01/21/chasin-optimize-hearing-aids-music/   https://www.grandpianopassion.com/2019/07/15/bauman-personalizing-hearing-aids-music/


----------



## bcowen

leftside said:


> Philips Italian 4699. I find this ST type have a little more warmth/weight to the metal base type.


Man, those are totally _gorgeous_!  I'd be tempted to put them in a display case instead of the amp.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Man, those are totally _gorgeous_!  I'd be tempted to put them in a display case instead of the amp.





leftside said:


> Philips Italian 4699. I find this ST type have a little more warmth/weight to the metal base type.


I’d be careful to not mistake them for little picnic bottles of Chianti....now where shall I drive the landau Bugatti?


----------



## leftside

bcowen said:


> Man, those are totally _gorgeous_!  I'd be tempted to put them in a display case instead of the amp.


I think my friend in Italy has a few left. Very reasonable prices. PM me if you want.


----------



## leftside

triod750 said:


> I believe you need more, and more obscure, tubes. You should leave the middle-of-the-road area.


I purchased quite a few of these 4654, 4699, etc from a fellow countryman of yours from Sweden this year. These tubes might not be so obscure soon though, as Pasquale Russo (author of the EL34 book) is soon going to be publishing an extra chapter or two on these sibling tubes in his revised upcoming EL34 book.


----------



## triod750

leftside said:


> I purchased quite a few of these 4654, 4699, etc from a fellow countryman of yours from Sweden this year. These tubes might not be so obscure soon though, as Pasquale Russo (author of the EL34 book) is soon going to be publishing an extra chapter or two on these sibling tubes in his revised upcoming EL34 book.


Yes, 4654 pop up now and then and sometimes go for not much money. The latest I saw selling for less than $11 the other week. PM me if you want a holler next time.


----------



## bcowen

leftside said:


> I think my friend in Italy has a few left. Very reasonable prices. PM me if you want.


Sincere thanks for the offer, but I don't have an amp to use them in.  But I'll still ponder the display case idea.


----------



## chaz_flhr

whirlwind said:


> Seem many here are in some sort of computer field.
> 
> When I graduated from high school I got a job in a calendar factory as a helper on an offset press. in a few years time i moved up to be an offset press operator and have done this for close to 45 years now...for 3 different companies.  After 45 years I have had enough of the ink and chemicals and loud noise....I am going to retire in September of this year. I so much look forward to it and getting away from the everyday grind.
> 
> I plan to do a little bit of traveling to see some music venues that I have always wanted to see. I am hoping to see more live music than ever before.


Ahh another lithographer congratulations on retirement, 5 more years for me.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Philips Italian 4699. I find this ST type have a little more warmth/weight to the metal base type.


Fantastic looking tubes!


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Fantastic looking tubes!


What impressed me the most is how clean the side contacts are (unless you already cleaned them). The Italians have a flair for style - those tax exempt stickers really add to the looks.
Re retirement my own thoughts are a little different. I found it very difficult to abruptly stop working, and it took quite a while until I found things to do that filled up the day..... If I would have had a choice, I would have gradually cut down on the hours and worked fewer hours, but in my case it was not possible.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> What impressed me the most is how clean the side contacts are (unless you already cleaned them). The Italians have a flair for style - those tax exempt stickers really add to the looks.
> Re retirement my own thoughts are a little different. I found it very difficult to abruptly stop working, and it took quite a while until I found things to do that filled up the day..... If I would have had a choice, I would have gradually cut down on the hours and worked fewer hours, but in my case it was not possible.



Yeah those contacts are nice and that is important on those side contact tubes, he may have cleaned them up on arrival....killer looking tubes.

Yeah, retirement seems different for many people. I think I will be OK with it. I have not golfed much the last few years, but I will once I am retired.
I will walk, because that will be nice exercise to help work off all of the extra cake


----------



## leftside

I have a Dremel and a great attachment for those side contacts. Those side contacts do clean up very well, and on a few tubes the cleaned contacts reveal engraved letters that identify the tube type!


----------



## gibosi

Well I thought I would bring the discussion back to everyone's favorite subject, 4-Volt rectifiers. lol 

After taxes, I found that I had a little more money left over than I expected. And I found a very good deal on a Telefunken RGN4004. And I should qualify that statement by saying that in my opinion these rectifiers are way overpriced. But again, I had some extra cash burning a hole in my pocket and found a NOS, NIB manufactured in 1937 for a fair price.

This picture shows 1937 production next to 1949 production. Obviously very different construction, but they sound about the same to my old ears.


 

And with mesh plates it puts on a quite a light show.


----------



## triod750

A Hexfred is just boring in comparison. This is a class act!


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Well I thought I would bring the discussion back to everyone's favorite subject, 4-Volt rectifiers. lol
> 
> After taxes, I found that I had a little more money left over than I expected. And I found a very good deal on a Telefunken RGN4004. And I should qualify that statement by saying that in my opinion these rectifiers are way overpriced. But again, I had some extra cash burning a hole in my pocket and found a NOS, NIB manufactured in 1937 for a fair price.
> 
> ...


No doubt inspired by this Edison light bulb:


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 23, 2021)

gibosi said:


> Well I thought I would bring the discussion back to everyone's favorite subject, 4-Volt rectifiers. lol
> 
> After taxes, I found that I had a little more money left over than I expected. And I found a very good deal on a Telefunken RGN4004. And I should qualify that statement by saying that in my opinion these rectifiers are way overpriced. But again, I had some extra cash burning a hole in my pocket and found a NOS, NIB manufactured in 1937 for a fair price.
> 
> ...



A NOS 1937  Telefunken RGN4004 do not come cheap!  
I really love the construction of the globe rectifiers...they look very cool with no mica's.
This is a great add to your collection  There can not be many of these NOS out in the wild.
Congrats.


----------



## bcowen

gibosi said:


> Well I thought I would bring the discussion back to everyone's favorite subject, 4-Volt rectifiers. lol
> 
> After taxes, I found that I had a little more money left over than I expected. And I found a very good deal on a Telefunken RGN4004. And I should qualify that statement by saying that in my opinion these rectifiers are way overpriced. But again, I had some extra cash burning a hole in my pocket and found a NOS, NIB manufactured in 1937 for a fair price.
> 
> ...



I only go with 5v heaters.  4 volt is for noobs.  

Seriously, those are some bad-a$$ looking tubes.  Love the filament glow!


----------



## Smallpie

Does anybody like using 12a_7 tubes with their GOTL?


----------



## gibosi

I've used 12AU7, 12AT7 and E80CC / 6085. Another nice all-glass miniature is the Mazda 6/30L2 / ECC804, and they all sound good to me.


----------



## whirlwind

This is a pretty good sound for not much money.
These Thomson 6080 were $10 each a few years ago.
The 1633 Ken Rad Black Glass were once available for $7 each
The  Phillips PY500 Rectifier were $4 each.
So I got a set of NOS tubes for $35...oh how times have changed, LOL.   

For a long time I used the Thomson power tubes to burn in my new driver tubes.
I just popped all these in this morning to see how they would sound and the sound keeps me well engaged.

I believe in Glenn's earlier OTL amps he only used 25 Volt SN7 tubes.


----------



## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> This is a pretty good sound for not much money.
> These Thomson 6080 were $10 each a few years ago.
> The 1633 Ken Rad Black Glass were once available for $7 each
> The  Phillips PY500 Rectifier were $4 each.
> ...


LOL!  Memories.  I bought my first quad of 1951 ribbed plate Foton 6N8S's for $24...delivered.  Now people are wanting that for a single...plus shipping.  I won't say how much I paid for the factory matched quad of NOS 1958 WE 300B's 20 years ago.  Might make people mad.


----------



## Galapac

bcowen said:


> LOL!  Memories.  I bought my first quad of 1951 ribbed plate Foton 6N8S's for $24...delivered.  Now people are wanting that for a single...plus shipping.  I won't say how much I paid for the factory matched quad of NOS 1958 WE 300B's 20 years ago.  Might make people mad.


Someone called me a “thief” not long ago on a great deal I got on a Bendix...they shall remain nameless. 😃 C’mon gramps, tell us about the good ole days of tube buying...did you pick up the 300Bs for...let me guess...$20 a piece? 🤑


----------



## whirlwind

bcowen said:


> LOL!  Memories.  I bought my first quad of 1951 ribbed plate Foton 6N8S's for $24...delivered.  Now people are wanting that for a single...plus shipping.  I won't say how much I paid for the factory matched quad of NOS 1958 WE 300B's 20 years ago.  Might make people mad.


Are you still using those 300B's ?


----------



## leftside

bcowen said:


> LOL!  Memories.  I bought my first quad of 1951 ribbed plate Foton 6N8S's for $24...delivered.  Now people are wanting that for a single...plus shipping.  I won't say how much I paid for the factory matched quad of NOS 1958 WE 300B's 20 years ago.  Might make people mad.


$2k. Figure on doubling your money every 10 years (7%/year compounded) for in demand collectibles - or quality stocks


----------



## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> Are you still using those 300B's ?


No, I don't currently have an amp that can use them. My Jota speaker amp uses the "XLS" version of the 300B which juices them a lot harder than a regular 300B....afraid even the WE's will fry at those voltages.  OTOH, the XLS versions get you over 20wpc in an SET configuration.  I love the KR's.  The Emission Labs versions didn't punch all my buttons as well (but they are cheaper too).  

Jota with the Kron (KR) 300BXLS tubes, Mullard CV378 rectifiers, Tung Sol 12BH7A's, and 50's Amperex 6DJ8's (behind the 300B's):


----------



## bcowen

leftside said:


> $2k. Figure on doubling your money every 10 years (7%/year compounded) for in demand collectibles - or quality stocks


LOL!  Less than that, but you're not far off.  I could probably sell the quad for $20k right now if I wanted to....but I don't.


----------



## leftside

bcowen said:


> LOL!  Less than that, but you're not far off.  I could probably sell the quad for $20k right now if I wanted to....but I don't.


I see the vintage ones selling for about $2k for singles, but you're right - a matching quad would probably go for quite a bit more than 4 * $2k. I won't be selling any of my tubes either, but you never know what might happen in life... I grew up in a rough town in northern England. Mould in the bathroom, ice on the inside of the windows in the winter, needed to put 50 pence pieces in a meter to get heat or hot water. Horrible times.

I also use those Amperex 6DJ8 in my phono pre. Nice tubes. The earliest US versions or Dutch with D getter certainly aren't cheap these days either.


----------



## bcowen

leftside said:


> I see the vintage ones selling for about $2k for singles, but you're right - a matching quad would probably go for quite a bit more than 4 * $2k. I won't be selling any of my tubes either, but you never know what might happen in life... I grew up in a rough town in northern England. Mould in the bathroom, ice on the inside of the windows in the winter, needed to put 50 pence pieces in a meter to get heat or hot water. Horrible times.
> 
> I also use those Amperex 6DJ8 in my phono pre. Nice tubes. The earliest US versions or Dutch with D getter certainly aren't cheap these days either.


I've always preferred the sound of a good '50's or early '60's 6DJ8 to any 6922, 7308, etc.  They just sound more organic and musical to me.  The problem is finding ones that aren't noisy or microphonic right off the bat (or get that way in very short order).  6922's are vastly better in that particular regard.


----------



## Galapac

bcowen said:


> No, I don't currently have an amp that can use them. My Jota speaker amp uses the "XLS" version of the 300B which juices them a lot harder than a regular 300B....afraid even the WE's will fry at those voltages.  OTOH, the XLS versions get you over 20wpc in an SET configuration.  I love the KR's.  The Emission Labs versions didn't punch all my buttons as well (but they are cheaper too).
> 
> Jota with the Kron (KR) 300BXLS tubes, Mullard CV378 rectifiers, Tung Sol 12BH7A's, and 50's Amperex 6DJ8's (behind the 300B's):


Nice amp Bill!!! Damn! The CV378 is a 5U4G variant, is it not?


----------



## bcowen

Galapac said:


> Nice amp Bill!!! Damn! The CV378 is a 5U4G variant, is it not?


Thanks!  The CV378 is basically a GZ-37, or a poor man's 53KU.  Different ratings than a 5U4G.  Possible it could be a drop-in with some amps, but likely not others.


----------



## gibosi

Galapac said:


> Nice amp Bill!!! Damn! The CV378 is a 5U4G variant, is it not?



As @bcowen indicated, the GZ37 is not the same as the 5U4G, but in many amps it is a drop-in replacement. To be safe, check with the manufacturer of your amp. Typically, most manufacturers provide a list of approved rectifiers.


----------



## Galapac

bcowen said:


> Thanks!  The CV378 is basically a GZ-37, or a poor man's 53KU.  Different ratings than a 5U4G.  Possible it could be a drop-in with some amps, but likely not others.


Bill, I might have a spare Mullard CV378 heading your way if it doesn’t work out for me. 🙂


----------



## bcowen

Galapac said:


> Bill, I might have a spare Mullard CV378 heading your way if it doesn’t work out for me. 🙂



Cool!  Hoping it _doesn't_ work for you.  

Kidding, obviously.  Hope it will work for you. Very nice sounding rectifier IME, and they last a long, long time to boot.  I've always been curious how a 53KU like a Cossor would compare, but the prices on those are a bit higher than my curiosity.


----------



## Smallpie

I know we have talked about this but It’s still very confusing that you say that the cv378 is the poor mans 53ku as in  this picture is the same as the 53ku (cossor fat bottle) but it says on it cv378.
it is not the later mullard  version skinny bottle. 

When you are referring to the cv378 you are talking about the skinny bottle Mullard made cv378, correct? If mine is a fat bottle 53ku why does it say cv378?

im getting my info from:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/


----------



## bcowen (Mar 29, 2021)

Akiravelvet said:


> I know we have talked about this but It’s still very confusing that you say that the cv378 is the poor mans 53ku as in  this picture is the same as the 53ku (cossor fat bottle) but it says on it cv378.
> it is not the later mullard  version skinny bottle.
> 
> When you are referring to the cv378 you are talking about the skinny bottle Mullard made cv378, correct? If mine is a fat bottle 53ku why does it say cv378?
> ...


The CV378 and the 53KU are electrically the same (as is the GZ-37).  The CV378's I have are the ST bottle shape, but not as large in diameter as yours.  They aren't straight bottles, just smaller diameter ST-shaped bottles.

I've never heard a Cossor 53KU, only read comments by others (that seem to be in universal praise of them).  How much different or better are they than the Mullard CV378?  I don't know.  Maybe substantial, maybe minor.  But when comparing these tubes or any others for that matter, would you rather have a genuine NOS Genalex KT-88 or a newly manufactured (re-issued) Tung Sol KT-88?  Electrically they should be the same, but there's no doubt (really) which would sound better.


----------



## leftside

Akiravelvet said:


> I know we have talked about this but It’s still very confusing that you say that the cv378 is the poor mans 53ku as in  this picture is the same as the 53ku (cossor fat bottle) but it says on it cv378.
> it is not the later mullard  version skinny bottle.
> 
> When you are referring to the cv378 you are talking about the skinny bottle Mullard made cv378, correct? If mine is a fat bottle 53ku why does it say cv378?
> ...


@gibosi Do you think this tube might be a Cossor 53KU? Look at that side getter...


----------



## Xcalibur255

You can also consider a GZ33 as well.  Nearly identical to the GZ37 but with slightly less voltage drop so it will have a slightly different sound.  They're often a little bit cheaper too since fewer people look for them.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> @gibosi Do you think this tube might be a Cossor 53KU? Look at that side getter...



Yes, it's a Cossor 53KU.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 29, 2021)

Akiravelvet said:


> When you are referring to the cv378 you are talking about the skinny bottle Mullard made cv378, correct? If mine is a fat bottle 53ku why does it say cv378?
> 
> im getting my info from:



As I tried to explain before, CV378 is a British government specification. And the government considered any tube that met that spec to be a CV378, regardless of the manufacture. Both the Mullard GZ37 and Cossor 53KU met that spec, even though they sound different.

Again, it's similar to the US government's VT-231 specification. Any tube meeting that spec was considered to be a VT-231, regardless of the manufacturer. But you know that 6SN7GT (VT-231) manufactured by different makers sound different, but they all the met that spec.


----------



## Smallpie

gibosi said:


> As I tried to explain before, CV378 is a British government specification. And the government considered any tube that met that spec to be a CV378, regardless of the manufacture. Both the Mullard GZ37 and Cossor 53KU met that spec, even though they sound different.
> 
> Again, it's similar to the US government's VT-231 specification. Any tube meeting that spec was considered to be a VT-231, regardless of the manufacturer. But you know that 6SN7GT (VT-231) manufactured by different makers sound different, but they all the met that spec.


Thanks for the reclarification. Much appreciated.


----------



## Velozity (Mar 30, 2021)

Another giveaway that it's a Cossor is the KB/K manufacturer code.  "K" designates the High Wycombe factory.  Cossor produced tubes here starting in the the early '40s.  This tube was made in June 1956 which is around the time when Cossor stopped making tubes.


----------



## mordy

If they make it, it hums - old vacuum tube audiophile proverb.

KISS - a design principle coined by the US Navy in 1960 - Keep it simple, stupid.

Here is a variation on KISS: 
KICS - Keep it cheap, stupid. Or cheep as some say.

Let's be honest, a lot of tubes in the GOTL (and in many other amps as well) hum a little, especially at very loud volumes, but usually the hum is masked by the music and only heard if u crank it up without music playing. But it's there, and just the thought of it can be irritating...

Here is an inexpensive (read free) fix that can alleviate part or most of the hum. You need to find a window screen made of metal mesh (my neighbor thoughtfully threw out two dented and broken screens). Take a utility knife and cut out a 16" x 6" rectangle. Fold it to make a rectangular cage 6' long and 2" wide. It looks like a metal sleeve without bottom or top.
Slip it over the pair of driver tubes (in my case). If you only use one driver tube or a dual adapter the cage needs to be smaller. Then ground the cage to the chassis - I used an old alligator clip and a small magnet but at short run of wire attached to the cage and a screw on the chassis is probably better.

This Faraday cage could reduce the hum or even maybe make it disappear.




You could go to Home Depot and buy some wire netting that looks shinier and better but who wants to spend money on something so ugly? But it does reduce the hum and for me that is what counts.


----------



## leftside

I'm not sure if this is entirely true @mordy. With a lot of tube combos I do not hear any hum whatsoever - even with volume at the max (obviously with no music playing). I just hear a hiss/air. This is with 15 tubes in the chain from DAC to preamp to headphone amp. Maybe this is because I have low sensitivity headphones.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> I'm not sure if this is entirely true @mordy. With a lot of tube combos I do not hear any hum whatsoever - even with volume at the max (obviously with no music playing). I just hear a hiss/air. This is with 15 tubes in the chain from DAC to preamp to headphone amp. Maybe this is because I have low sensitivity headphones.


It seems that I used the term hum too loosely. What I meant is any kind of electrical or other types of noise, including hiss/air. I don't have anywhere near the experience that you have with different amps etc., but from personal experience and reading, tube amps often generate some kind of noise and not all of them are completely quiet at high volume.
Luckily it seems that most amps are relatively quiet at normal listening levels. Sometimes you encounter tubes that are noisy to the point of intruding on the listening experience, and it is difficult to totally get rid of the noise no matter what you try.


----------



## whirlwind

The thing with tubes is that they can be completely quiet and then have a small amount of noise a few hours later, or vice versa.
As long as the noise does not distract from the music, then there is no issue for me. This is just something you need to expect when listening with tubes.
If it does distract from the music, I just toss those tubes to the side...I never use any kind of faraday cage or tube dampers.
I never liked the look of any of that stuff. I just use my quiet tubes, no fuss and I hate fiddling around with them...I just want to listen to my music.
I do understand that some people use this kind of stuff to quiet their tubes also....so whatever works for someone.


----------



## mordy (Mar 31, 2021)

whirlwind said:


> The thing with tubes is that they can be completely quiet and then have a small amount of noise a few hours later


When I get tubes that are noisy I take it as a challenge to try to quiet them and I have had limited success with some. Tubes like the Sylvania 6SN7W, TS 6SN7 BGRP and Melz 6N12S that were noisy benefitted from reheating of the pins with a soldering iron. It seems that after decades of storage there are changes to the solder and conductivity.
Sometimes a microphonic tube benefits from wrapping a band around the glass with stretchable silicone tape but not always.
With the tube prices being what they are I'll give the noisy tubes a try before putting them away.
Just took a look yesterday at some tube prices - in just a few years tubes that used to cost $3 go for $20-30, and many tubes that used to be in the double digit range are now in the high three digit range. In addition, it seems that more and more tubes are now sold as singles instead of pairs or small lots.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Luckily it seems that most amps are relatively quiet at normal listening levels


And that's all that matters really


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> And that's all that matters really


I just had to post this but I have nothing to say right now except for that this is post #6000 in 11 years.
Well, I could brag about using $12 worth of tubes including shipping for great sound, but I don't. Cause I just checked and those tubes would cost $60 today....
And I forgot the adapters for $50.
Ken-Rad 6J7, RCA 6AS7G.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> When I get tubes that are noisy I take it as a challenge to try to quiet them and I have had limited success with some. Tubes like the Sylvania 6SN7W, TS 6SN7 BGRP and Melz 6N12S that were noisy benefitted from reheating of the pins with a soldering iron. It seems that after decades of storage there are changes to the solder and conductivity.
> Sometimes a microphonic tube benefits from wrapping a band around the glass with stretchable silicone tape but not always.
> With the tube prices being what they are I'll give the noisy tubes a try before putting them away.
> Just took a look yesterday at some tube prices - in just a few years tubes that used to cost $3 go for $20-30, and many tubes that used to be in the double digit range are now in the high three digit range. In addition, it seems that more and more tubes are now sold as singles instead of pairs or small lots.


I agree, more singles and less pairs and as you say, the prices have really went up.
It is amazing at how long tubes last....when I first got my amp Glenn sent me three sets of 42EC4/PY500  tubes....since they were cheap I bought about 20 more sets.....HA, these would last me three lifetimes!

The Brimar 13D1 tubes at the time I got my amp were very cheap.....now they are hard to find and the price is crazy.
Glenn said they sounded great and they really do...one of my favorite driver tubes.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> I agree, more singles and less pairs and as you say, the prices have really went up.
> It is amazing at how long tubes last....when I first got my amp Glenn sent me three sets of 42EC4/PY500  tubes....since they were cheap I bought about 20 more sets.....HA, these would last me three lifetimes!
> 
> The Brimar 13D1 tubes at the time I got my amp were very cheap.....now they are hard to find and the price is crazy.
> Glenn said they sounded great and they really do...one of my favorite driver tubes.


As I understand it the Brimar 13D1 is a 25V version of the Brimar 6SN7. If memory serves me right, the 25V tubes were used in aircraft.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> As I understand it the Brimar 13D1 is a 25V version of the Brimar 6SN7. If memory serves me right, the 25V tubes were used in aircraft.



Given that the construction and the sound is different, I don't think the 13D1 is simply a 25V version of the Brimar 6SN7. In my opinion, it is a different animal. On the other hand, the 1633 compared to the regular RCA or Ken-Rad 6SN7 appears to be identical. Only the heater is different.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Given that the construction and the sound is different, I don't think the 13D1 is simply a 25V version of the Brimar 6SN7. In my opinion, it is a different animal. On the other hand, the 1633 compared to the regular RCA or Ken-Rad 6SN7 appears to be identical. Only the heater is different.


I shall stand corrected- don’t have what to compare with but you do - thanks.


----------



## Karnicopia (Apr 1, 2021)

I feel like noisy tubes are the main reason I really don’t care as much about matched pairs I care more about finding quiet pairs cheaply and singles is usually the easiest way to do that. Even noisy tubes seem to settle down after some hours so I like to just pair those up and run them for a while to see if they improve with time. Usually at the end they are pretty quiet but you do get the random noise every once in a while and I agree it’s usually masked by the music and I only hear it between tracks. I haven’t messed with soldering or heating any of them yet but I do appreciate the info on that and maybe one of these days.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I rarely worry much about new tubes that are noisy on first listen because very often they do settle down with some use.  What stinks is when a tube you've used for a while suddenly starts having noise issues after a long period of well-behaved operation.  When this happens the noise sticks around from my experience and that tube is now a decoration.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> I rarely worry much about new tubes that are noisy on first listen because very often they do settle down with some use.  What stinks is when a tube you've used for a while suddenly starts having noise issues after a long period of well-behaved operation.  When this happens the noise sticks around from my experience and that tube is now a decoration.


As stated before, I have had luck with some tubes with this problem by heating up the tube pins with a soldering iron for 30 seconds each. Sometimes you have to do it twice.
It seems that the solder in certain brands/batches of old tubes undergoes changes over the decades, and reflowing the solder may help.
IMHO worth a try before relegating the tube to the dust bin. Although I found a use for such decorative old ST tubes as headphone hangers....


----------



## tintinsnowydog

I have been experimenting with drivers to pair with 6x Sylvania 6BL7GTA lately. As some others have noted these are fast and somewhat 'bright' sounding tubes. My findings have been similar, and they have been a bit of a tricky pair with my HD800. However, they do exhibit incredible detail and evenness across the entire frequency range. For me, this translates to hearing a very neutral sound signature, exhibiting fantastic treble extension, deep bass response and forward mids. 

In my setup, these definitely prefer pairing with warm drivers. I had good success with an ECC31, but found the treble to not be quite right. I had a similar experience with the Tung Sol 12SN7, very good synergy except for the tone in the upper registers. In both cases, higher notes, especially vocals, were a little muffled and less pronounced than what I wanted in some sections, but then too bright in others- perhaps something not quite gelling in the upper mids/lower treble. 

Given the recent mention of the Brimar 13D1, I decided to give mine a try. It unfortunately is quite microphonic and hums intermittently in the right channel, not quite audible with 6080/6AS7 but definitely there with 6BL7s (their gain really expose the slightest noise in any driver!). Again the treble wasn't quite right for my ears. I then subbed in the 6SN7 Brimar- my tube is labelled (very faintly) Radiotron, in font which was often used by AWV, with the characteristic round plates and micas. These really hit the spot- perfect tonality, treble extension, smooth mids and rumbly bass when called upon. They definitely sound different from the 13D1, confirming for me it is not simply a 25V version of the 6SN7. 

A great listening session with a small army of double triodes tonight


----------



## gibosi

And in the same vein, I continue to trial different drivers to pair with the TFK RGN4004 rectifier and a pair of Mullard 6080. Currently running a pair of Lorenz C3g and so far so good. 

NB: For those who don't have the Brimar 13D1, surprisingly, I find the Mazda ECC804 / 6/30L2 to have a similar tone.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

Tonight, I changed it up a bit and experimented with some tubes in my 6J5 adapters. The Deyan adapter is on loan to a local hifi mate who I am converting to the 6J5 camp  I discovered that 2 of my Brimar CV1067 hum uncontrollably, while another pair is dead quiet. It so happens that the noisy ones are the best testing ones too- I will burn them in a bit more and see if it subsides. The Brimars CV1067/6J5G do everything their 6SN7 does, and present it with a bit more soundstage and refinement in tone. They are beautiful tubes and deserve their popularity. Unfortunately, I didn't get a photo of them in action, as I was too busy fiddling with the humming pair!

Sticking with British tubes, I went with a pair of Mullard 6J5GT, one labelled Philips Miniwatt. The two tubes I have are very similar in construction, but not quite the same and from different sources. However, they both have WM printed on the base- I assume this is a generalised government/military demarcation? These were a touch warmer than the Brimars, with less treble extension but a familiar warmth in the midrange that is so pleasing to listen to. The soundstage is also more intimate, great for vocals and 'cozy' listening paired with some RCA 6080s. 

Feeling adventurous, I decided to try a combination I've been thinking about for a while, but have not seen any mention of here. The EF86 tubes were always my favourite driver tubes in the LF339, and I have suitable adapters to 6J5 sockets. I stuck in some Valvo mesh plates for a very brief time, as although I don't see any major issues with using them like this, I wouldn't mind some confirmation from others on anything I may have overlooked before doing a longer listening session 

In the very quick listening I did, the sound I am used to was immediately apparent- extremely refined treble and super airy, expansive soundstage, even more so for me than the best 6J5s in that department. They have a very light and precise presentation that pairs perfectly with a slightly warm power tube, for a highly enjoyable combination of tone and detail. This is what I imagine the C3g will sound like, but it may be a while before I can confirm that- they are still floating along on the ocean on their way to me, somewhere out there...


----------



## mordy

It's great fun to try all kinds of combination to find the sound you like. Sometimes the results are very unexpected - be it very poor or surprisingly good!
I wish there was a way to predict how tube combinations sound, but I haven't found such a thing yet. Certain tubes have certain characteristics that stay more or less the same with different pairings, but that still isn't any guarantee that it is going to be a good synergy.


----------



## tintinsnowydog (Apr 6, 2021)

Today, I received a nice package in the mail containing 7x 6080s from the UK. The tubes were listed as untested, label unknown, and in very rough shape- bases completely rusted, pins totally oxidised. However, the circle top micas and colour of the bases gave away their true identity- these were GEC 6080s- so I took the gamble 

Cleaned the pins some, and put them through my tester- out of the 7 tubes, 4 tested good. 2 of the 3 bad tubes only had the filament light up in one triode (I believe this means one side of the filament is shorting?). The other had very high cathode-heater leakage.

So I was left with a working quad of these tubes for around the price of what one in better cosmetic condition would go for these days! Next step was to see if they passed the amp test. I decided to run them as a quad, the first time I have used 4x 6080/6AS7 in the amp. After warming up a few minutes, plugged in some headphones, and to my relief, absolutely quiet! Was super stoked they were working well, and also excited to try the GECs as a quad paired with EF86s. These 6080s are  loved by basically all those who have heard them, and rightfully so. Super refined midrange tone, smooth treble and well-controlled bass, presented with amazing detail and separation ticks all the boxes. Some prefer them over the GEC 6AS7, but I do feel the 6AS7 have a slight edge over these still, though not in price/availability- so they won't be getting burnt up as long as the 6080s are still going strong!

The transformer got pretty toasty after a couple hours, so I went back to 2x 6080s and compared the sound to just a pair. IMHO, I couldn't really tell the difference- perhaps a slightly fuller sound with the quad, but it may well have been placebo, certainly nothing that stood out as obviously different or lacking.  All the better, not needing to use 4 at the same time for optimal sound. Will have to try combining them with other brands soon. These sound the best they ever have in the glennOTL, and I ought to compare them again in this topology with pairs of the GEC 6AS7 and A2293.

I then swapped out the EF86 for a pair of grey glass metal Osram L63, to see if they would synergise well. These L63 effectively make a B65, although I do not have one to confirm how close or different they are. I have written previously that I was uninspired by these, especially compared to the other L63 variants, but they deserve another chance in this amp. So far, I'm liking what I'm hearing, but I do still find them just a tad too aggressive in the upper mids and recessed in the upper bass for my liking. They do have incredible detail and technicalities though. Comparisons to the grey glass ST L63 and brown base straight glass L63 to come!


I'm just left thinking now about the 3 'bad' 6080s. Is there any way to repair a unilateral broken filament, or decrease cathode heater leakage? Or perhaps some other way to use the single triode of the 6080s? And any ideas on how to de-rust these bases?


----------



## whirlwind

tintinsnowydog said:


> Today, I received a nice package in the mail containing 7x 6080s from the UK. The tubes were listed as untested, label unknown, and in very rough shape- bases completely rusted, pins totally oxidised. However, the circle top micas and colour of the bases gave away their true identity- these were GEC 6080s- so I took the gamble
> 
> Cleaned the pins some, and put them through my tester- out of the 7 tubes, 4 tested good. 2 of the 3 bad tubes only had the filament light up in one triode (I believe this means one side of the filament is shorting?). The other had very high cathode-heater leakage.
> 
> ...


Great score on the 6080 tubes!


----------



## mordy

tintinsnowydog said:


> Today, I received a nice package in the mail containing 7x 6080s from the UK. The tubes were listed as untested, label unknown, and in very rough shape- bases completely rusted, pins totally oxidised. However, the circle top micas and colour of the bases gave away their true identity- these were GEC 6080s- so I took the gamble
> 
> Cleaned the pins some, and put them through my tester- out of the 7 tubes, 4 tested good. 2 of the 3 bad tubes only had the filament light up in one triode (I believe this means one side of the filament is shorting?). The other had very high cathode-heater leakage.
> 
> ...


Congrats on a good buy!
Regarding the rusty bases, my impression is that they are made of aluminum so perhaps an aluminum cleaner would work. If you can't stand the looks, you could shrinkwrap or paint the bases with heat resistant paint in the color of your choice lol.
Heat being Enemy #1 of electronics, and a quad of 6080s giving off a lot of heat (even a pair for that matter) I found an easy solution - a pair of USB powered 4" fans that are very quiet and come with a speed controller - also inexpensive:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MULTIFAN-S...775605?hash=item35d4b31ff5:g:GU4AAOSwHjNV~IgP



I mounted the fans hanging behind the amp and the medium fan setting seems enough. The GOTL is rated at 13A - with the fans you can push it to 14A if you end up with such a combination of tubes. 
With these fans the transformer does not get hot - 80C is max for the transformer and with the fans on it is usually around 45C or less after extended use.


----------



## Xcalibur255

tintinsnowydog said:


> I then swapped out the EF86 for a pair of grey glass metal Osram L63, to see if they would synergise well. These L63 effectively make a B65, although I do not have one to confirm how close or different they are. I have written previously that I was uninspired by these, especially compared to the other L63 variants, but they deserve another chance in this amp. So far, I'm liking what I'm hearing, but I do still find them just a tad too aggressive in the upper mids and recessed in the upper bass for my liking. They do have incredible detail and technicalities though. Comparisons to the grey glass ST L63 and brown base straight glass L63 to come!


I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on these.  I also find the B65 to have a little too much energy in the upper mids, making this tube pretty synergy dependent.

I've been debating whether it's worth it to grab a pair of grey glass ST GEC or stick with just the straight glass brown base only.  I feel like I already bought more 6J5 than I need.


----------



## gibosi

tintinsnowydog said:


> Today, I received a nice package in the mail containing 7x 6080s from the UK. The tubes were listed as untested, label unknown, and in very rough shape- bases completely rusted, pins totally oxidised. However, the circle top micas and colour of the bases gave away their true identity- these were GEC 6080s- so I took the gamble
> 
> Cleaned the pins some, and put them through my tester- out of the 7 tubes, 4 tested good. 2 of the 3 bad tubes only had the filament light up in one triode (I believe this means one side of the filament is shorting?). The other had very high cathode-heater leakage.
> 
> ...



Nice score! 

You say that you "Cleaned the pins some." So I would suggest that you very thoroughly clean the pins on the three bad ones before giving up on them. It may very well be that the pins are simply not making good contact in the socket.

Regarding the pairing of Osram L63 and GEC 6080, in my opinion a little GEC goodness goes a long way. And in my experience one GEC per roll is enough. That is, with GEC 6080s (or GEC 6AS7G), installing a GEC rectifier or GEC drivers is just too much GEC goodness.


----------



## triod750

Tintin, it would be interesting if you eventually gave your opinion of how GEC 6080, 6AS7g and A2293 compare. You give the impression of having a good ear and being able to explain what you hear.

Just a humble request.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Nice score!
> 
> 
> And in my experience one GEC per roll is enough. That is, with GEC 6080s (or GEC 6AS7G), installing a GEC rectifier or GEC drivers is just too much GEC goodness.


Agreed. My experiences have been the same.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Nice score!
> 
> You say that you "Cleaned the pins some." So I would suggest that you very thoroughly clean the pins on the three bad ones before giving up on them. It may very well be that the pins are simply not making good contact in the socket.
> 
> Regarding the pairing of Osram L63 and GEC 6080, in my opinion a little GEC goodness goes a long way. And in my experience one GEC per roll is enough. That is, with GEC 6080s (or GEC 6AS7G), installing a GEC rectifier or GEC drivers is just too much GEC goodness.


Yep +1


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on these.  I also find the B65 to have a little too much energy in the upper mids, making this tube pretty synergy dependent.
> 
> I've been debating whether it's worth it to grab a pair of grey glass ST GEC or stick with just the straight glass brown base only.  I feel like I already bought more 6J5 than I need.


Maybe time to start exploring 6J7?


----------



## chrisdrop

Xcalibur255 said:


> I've been debating whether it's worth it to grab a pair of grey glass ST GEC or stick with just the straight glass brown base only. I feel like I already bought more 6J5 than I need.


I have surely fallen down the too many 6J5 and the like tubes. The grey glass 6J5G are nice and they are different to the brown base - but I actually use the brown base ones more over the past several months. NOS MOV 6J5Gs are also among the most expensive in class. It is not clear they deserve the big premium. I also think on balance I use 6C5* tubes more often FWIW so maybe extend there


----------



## triod750

But.....it's not until you have bought all different kinds of a tube you can be certain that you have too many. Maybe that last one is the one to have .


----------



## Xcalibur255

220 × 139


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> 220 × 139


Not much of a temptation - you can get metal 6J7 for less than $5.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

mordy said:


> Congrats on a good buy!
> Regarding the rusty bases, my impression is that they are made of aluminum so perhaps an aluminum cleaner would work. If you can't stand the looks, you could shrinkwrap or paint the bases with heat resistant paint in the color of your choice lol.
> Heat being Enemy #1 of electronics, and a quad of 6080s giving off a lot of heat (even a pair for that matter) I found an easy solution - a pair of USB powered 4" fans that are very quiet and come with a speed controller - also inexpensive:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/MULTIFAN-S...775605?hash=item35d4b31ff5:g:GU4AAOSwHjNV~IgP
> ...


Thanks mordy, I do have one of these 'ultra-quiet' fans myself (not this brand) to use in summer, but find it runs a little loud personally. Granted, I have my amp around an arm's length away due to my desk setup. I ought to get an inexpensive temperature gun and play around with my amp+tubes! I just use the bare hand test- if the transformer cover is uncomfortable to touch, then it is definitely too hot.



gibosi said:


> Nice score!
> 
> You say that you "Cleaned the pins some." So I would suggest that you very thoroughly clean the pins on the three bad ones before giving up on them. It may very well be that the pins are simply not making good contact in the socket.
> 
> Regarding the pairing of Osram L63 and GEC 6080, in my opinion a little GEC goodness goes a long way. And in my experience one GEC per roll is enough. That is, with GEC 6080s (or GEC 6AS7G), installing a GEC rectifier or GEC drivers is just too much GEC goodness.


I spent a good hour or so with sandpaper and alcohol last night, the pins are now definitely clean and there is heater continuity between pins 7/8 with my multimeter, so I believe the triode filament is dead :/ My understanding is that the heaters are connected in series, so the dead side is either burnt out or shorting.



Xcalibur255 said:


> I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on these.  I also find the B65 to have a little too much energy in the upper mids, making this tube pretty synergy dependent.
> 
> I've been debating whether it's worth it to grab a pair of grey glass ST GEC or stick with just the straight glass brown base only.  I feel like I already bought more 6J5 than I need.



I definitely have experience with the 'too much GEC' problem, but I do find some combinations still work very well- one of my all time favourites in the LF339 is the GEC 6AS7G with GEC CV4085 (EF86). I was curious about the synergy of the L63/B65 and it does seem they are not ideal paired with GEC6080- and I'm glad I am not the only one hearing its upper mid spike! That said, I think the GEC 6080 does a great job of mellowing out the Osram. Perhaps a Mullard or even Sylvania 6080 would do the trick (or it might become too warm!?). Definitely a tube I will have to and want to revisit.



chrisdrop said:


> I have surely fallen down the too many 6J5 and the like tubes. The grey glass 6J5G are nice and they are different to the brown base - but I actually use the brown base ones more over the past several months. NOS MOV 6J5Gs are also among the most expensive in class. It is not clear they deserve the big premium. I also think on balance I use 6C5* tubes more often FWIW so maybe extend there


I too now have a box full of 6J5/6C5- not hard to fall down this hole when such great sounding tubes can be had so cheap  I do share the same sentiment, between the Brimar CV1067 and the brown base L63, I dont think one would be missing out on much without the grey glass. I personally view the premium as only a reflection of their scarcity- though there have been a lot of them popping up recently.

Perhaps the 6C5 are more appealing in their price/performance ratio; great sound for less money 



triod750 said:


> Tintin, it would be interesting if you eventually gave your opinion of how GEC 6080, 6AS7g and A2293 compare. You give the impression of having a good ear and being able to explain what you hear.
> 
> Just a humble request.


These comparisons are definitely already in the plans  I am fortunate enough to have and also enjoy listening to a very revealing setup, and I enjoy comparing the subtle differences tubes can make. I spent some time thinking about a good neutral driver to use as a control with the output tubes, and settled on the NU 6SN7 grey glass for now. Sylvania VT-231 is the most 'true neutral', but I find it is lacking in the bass especially with my HD800. I also find the NU more natural sounding with slightly better technicalities across the board- the slight warmth and lushness combined with the HD800 is the least distracting and most 'neutral' driver/headphone combination that allows me to hear the output tube characteristics best. 

I have written previously that the GEC 6AS7 are a little more full-bodied (perceivably warmer) with slightly better technicalities than the 6080 which are more polite sounding, but still exude the GEC tone and attention to detail. From my own notes a while back, when the A2293 was first mentioned, I have written that they are somewhere in between the two. This really doesn't really mean much to me anymore and I hope to expand on that thought soon  I'll try to approach them again with fresh ears and be as unbiased as possible- hopefully someone is able to help me out with some blinded swapping of the tubes. 

I hope to eventually get more A2293s and try 2 or even 3 pairs in the output to see if that makes a difference to the sound. I had a really good deal that fell through with a Belgian seller- we had agreed on a price, but due to Easter holidays, he did not respond for a few days, during which time they were bought by someone else. 

As for the drivers, I think I'll pair them with some 5998, my favourite non-GEC output tube. I'm wary that they have caused problems in the past on GOTLs. But these are a really nice NOS pair that I always look at and pass over, not wanting to use them because they are 'too new'. It's time for them to get a workout!  

I'll need a while to get used to each tube's characteristics. I can usually make quick notes by listening to a tube with a few tracks I know really well, of what it does well and what I'm left wanting; but since these GEC tubes will all be very proficient, I will definitely be taking more time to listen critically


----------



## mordy

tintinsnowydog said:


> Thanks mordy, I do have one of these 'ultra-quiet' fans myself (not this brand) to use in summer, but find it runs a little loud personally. Granted, I have my amp around an arm's length away due to my desk setup. I ought to get an inexpensive temperature gun and play around with my amp+tubes! I just use the bare hand test- if the transformer cover is uncomfortable to touch, then it is definitely too hot.
> 
> 
> I spent a good hour or so with sandpaper and alcohol last night, the pins are now definitely clean and there is heater continuity between pins 7/8 with my multimeter, so I believe the triode filament is dead :/ My understanding is that the heaters are connected in series, so the dead side is either burnt out or shorting.
> ...


Inspired by tintinsnowydog I rummaged through my tube stash and found that I have around 1/2 dozen EF86/6267 tubes and the appropriate adapter. How about a LaFigaro 339 imitation?
The 6267 tube is labeled RCA but has the unmistakenable Mullard/Philips markings: 8Y1  F0L3  indicating EF86  1960, La Radiotechnique Suresnes factory. Back in the wasteland of the GOTL deck there is also a set of Bendix 6080WB (labeled Raytheon):



The little EF86 tube only draws 0.2A. In the past I thought that this is not enough for the GOTL but here this little tube pulls a full load with ample volume; the presentation is bright, dynamic and airy with very good PRaT. 
PRaT means presence, rhythm and attack. In plain English it means that it induces you to involuntary foot tapping lol.
As a bonus this combination is completely silent at normal to excessive listening levels.
Need more time for listening impressions, but the initial impression is that the treble is somewhat pronounced.


----------



## Xcalibur255

A German Valvo branded 5998?  I've definitely never seen one of those before.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> A German Valvo branded 5998?  I've definitely never seen one of those before.


Wonder what's inside the box? Thar long number on the box starting with 5960 is NATO inventory number for a specific vacuum tube - maybe a 5998A?
https://www.milspares.co.uk/nato-search/5960002728552?t=e


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> A German Valvo branded 5998?  I've definitely never seen one of those before.


Yeah....bust those boxes open and show us some pics of those....


----------



## jonathan c

mordy said:


> Inspired by tintinsnowydog I rummaged through my tube stash and found that I have around 1/2 dozen EF86/6267 tubes and the appropriate adapter. How about a LaFigaro 339 imitation?
> The 6267 tube is labeled RCA but has the unmistakenable Mullard/Philips markings: 8Y1  F0L3  indicating EF86  1960, La Radiotechnique Suresnes factory. Back in the wasteland of the GOTL deck there is also a set of Bendix 6080WB (labeled Raytheon):
> 
> The little EF86 tube only draws 0.2A. In the past I thought that this is not enough for the GOTL but here this little tube pulls a full load with ample volume; the presentation is bright, dynamic and airy with very good PRaT.
> ...


** In the British hifi magazines, PRaT is pace, rhythm, and timing...


----------



## Galapac

jonathan c said:


> ** In the British hifi magazines, PRaT is pace, rhythm, and timing...


PRaT is good in a lot of human experiences....music...comedy....sex...


----------



## mordy

You are right! I did not type it correctly. Do they tap the toes in the UK?


----------



## triod750

mordy said:


> You are right! I did not type it correctly. Do they tap the toes in the UK?


They pull each other's legs!


----------



## tintinsnowydog

mordy said:


> Inspired by tintinsnowydog I rummaged through my tube stash and found that I have around 1/2 dozen EF86/6267 tubes and the appropriate adapter. How about a LaFigaro 339 imitation?
> The 6267 tube is labeled RCA but has the unmistakenable Mullard/Philips markings: 8Y1  F0L3  indicating EF86  1960, La Radiotechnique Suresnes factory. Back in the wasteland of the GOTL deck there is also a set of Bendix 6080WB (labeled Raytheon):
> 
> The little EF86 tube only draws 0.2A. In the past I thought that this is not enough for the GOTL but here this little tube pulls a full load with ample volume; the presentation is bright, dynamic and airy with very good PRaT.
> ...


Those match my impressions as well, and they are certainly very quiet tubes. I believe the mesh plate design was to reduce RF interference. I am using 2x EF86 one per channel, was not aware a single EF86 could supply both channels! 


Xcalibur255 said:


> A German Valvo branded 5998?  I've definitely never seen one of those before.





mordy said:


> Wonder what's inside the box? Thar long number on the box starting with 5960 is NATO inventory number for a specific vacuum tube - maybe a 5998A?
> https://www.milspares.co.uk/nato-search/5960002728552?t=e





whirlwind said:


> Yeah....bust those boxes open and show us some pics of those....



The 5960 at the start of the NATO code indicates a vacuum tube, the last 4 digits the CV number. Looking up CV8552, it says it is a cancelled CV9385 which is an 0A200 diode!? The country code is the 2 digits after 5960 which seem to have been corrected by hand from 50 to 00. 00 is the country code for USA, and indeed that is what is inside the boxes, plain old Tung Sol 5998s. Sorry to disappoint! 

The boxes are certainly most interesting though- 50 is the only country code that does not exist, and the 3 digits following are typically 000, which makes this a great mystery.. My best guess with my limited German is that Verp- Datum is an abbreviation of Verpackt Datum, or date packed. The coding on the tube is cryptic too. 322 factory code followed by ND gives no indication of the date, and since the box's origin is unclear, I'm not even sure if it is pre-1961!


----------



## bcowen

tintinsnowydog said:


> Those match my impressions as well, and they are certainly very quiet tubes. I believe the mesh plate design was to reduce RF interference. I am using 2x EF86 one per channel, was not aware a single EF86 could supply both channels!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Personally, I find _nothing_ disappointing about "plain old" Tung Sol 5998's.    One of my favorite tubes.


----------



## mordy (Apr 7, 2021)

tintinsnowydog said:


> Those match my impressions as well, and they are certainly very quiet tubes. I believe the mesh plate design was to reduce RF interference. I am using 2x EF86 one per channel, was not aware a single EF86 could supply both channels!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Re the Tung Sol codes they are a real mystery and I am not aware of an internet source for the date codes. However, gibosi has some proprietary information and maybe he can shed some light on the manufacturing date.

NATO was founded in 1949 and the first 5998 tubes came out in 1951. My guess is that the tube was made at a  later date because of the Valvo rebranding and strange labeling.

Tried again to find a source for TS date codes and found something interesting about Tung Sol codes that I was not aware of previuosly. This example is about a tube with the letters NX after 322 (EIA manufacturing code). Apparently this code was for warranty purposes and not a date code.
" The Tung-Sol "letter coding" for warranty return purposes started by 1959, maybe before. Although I don't have an exact decoding of "NX" in this context, by extrapolation of codes published by T-S for wholesalers covering 1960-62, it does seem likely to fall in late 1963 or so. One thing to be aware of is that, in this case, it does not designate a date of tube manufacture, but rather the latest month and year that a tube could be returned under warranty. The warranty was normally a year or so after the shipping date, when the letters were applied. These codes were all designated as expiring on the last calendar date of the month specified. So in terms of manufacture, that tube was likely made in 1961-62 time frame at the latest."

Somewhere there is a list for wholesalers covering warranty information for 1960-62, but I haven't come across it yet.


----------



## whirlwind

tintinsnowydog said:


> Those match my impressions as well, and they are certainly very quiet tubes. I believe the mesh plate design was to reduce RF interference. I am using 2x EF86 one per channel, was not aware a single EF86 could supply both channels!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Still fantastic tubes.....enjoy


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> Re the Tung Sol codes they are a real mystery and I am not aware of an internet source for the date codes. However, gibosi has some proprietary information and maybe he can shed some light on the manufacturing date.
> 
> NATO was founded in 1949 and the first 5998 tubes came out in 1951. My guess is that the tube was made at a  later date because of the Valvo rebranding and strange labeling.
> 
> ...


Great info.  Thanks!


----------



## mordy

bcowen said:


> Great info.  Thanks!


Here is a list of NATO country codes as can be found on tube boxes after the first 5960 number:

CountryNCB Code(s)CountryNCB CodeCountryNCB CodeUnited States00 and 01Hungary51New Zealand98United States (unassigned)02 through 10Chile52United Kingdom99NATO-standard items11Croatia53West Germany / Germany12Republic of North Macedonia[4]54Belgium13Latvia55France14Oman56Italy15Russian Federation57Czechoslovakia / Czech Republic16Finland58Netherlands17Albania59South Africa18Kuwait60Brazil19Ukraine61Canada20 and 21Belarus62Denmark22Morocco63Greece23Sweden64Iceland24Papua, New Guinea65Norway25Australia66Portugal26Afghanistan67Turkey27Georgia68Luxembourg28?69Argentina29Saudi Arabia70Japan30United Arab Emirates71Israel31India72Singapore32Serbia73Spain33Pakistan74Malaysia34Bosnia-Herzegovina75Thailand35Brunei Darussalam76Egypt36Montenegro77Republic of Korea37Jordan78Estonia38Peru79Romania39Colombia80Slovakia40Qatar81Austria41Algeria82Slovenia42Poland43United Nations-standard items44Indonesia45Philippines46Lithuania47Fiji48Tonga49Bulgaria50


----------



## mordy

More on Tung Sol date coding:
"Here is another tidbit: The TS tubes usually have "Made In USA" printed on them; sometimes straight print and sometimes slanted. "The slanting vs. not font designates "without-" vs. "with allowance in lieu of returns" status at time of sale. That's a fancy way of saying that slanting _USA_ tubes could be returned for credit for a specified period of time after sale in the event of failure. Without the slant, tubes could only be returned for credit if they were found to be "line rejects", i.e. initially defective before actually being sold/installed. So they were differentiating applications and markets and price structures at time of shipping, reflected in the printing. "

Around the end of the '50s and into the '60s they sometimes got tricky with the date codes in the "322" format and used letters instead of digits, e.g., "322RC3 ."


----------



## Galapac

mordy said:


> More on Tung Sol date coding:
> "Here is another tidbit: The TS tubes usually have "Made In USA" printed on them; sometimes straight print and sometimes slanted. "The slanting vs. not font designates "without-" vs. "with allowance in lieu of returns" status at time of sale. That's a fancy way of saying that slanting _USA_ tubes could be returned for credit for a specified period of time after sale in the event of failure. Without the slant, tubes could only be returned for credit if they were found to be "line rejects", i.e. initially defective before actually being sold/installed. So they were differentiating applications and markets and price structures at time of shipping, reflected in the printing. "
> 
> Around the end of the '50s and into the '60s they sometimes got tricky with the date codes in the "322" format and used letters instead of digits, e.g., "322RC3 ."


That is awesome info..I always thought the unslanted "Made in USA" was a forgery...now I know better.


----------



## gibosi (Apr 8, 2021)

mordy said:


> Re the Tung Sol codes they are a real mystery and I am not aware of an internet source for the date codes. However, gibosi has some proprietary information and maybe he can shed some light on the manufacturing date.
> 
> NATO was founded in 1949 and the first 5998 tubes came out in 1951. My guess is that the tube was made at a  later date because of the Valvo rebranding and strange labeling.
> 
> ...



It appears that I have the same document your source is referencing, that is, "Tung-Sol 1960 Tube Adjustment Guide for Wholesalers and Distributors", which covers the period Jan 31, 1960 to July 31, 1962. In the past I have tried to extrapolate both backwards and forwards, but that seems to work for only a few years. So it would appear that they instituted a different system every several years.

The last entry in the table is July 31, 1962 = MR. So it does seem likely that ND might be sometime in 1963, but it's a guess and that's the best we can do at this time.

I find it interesting that this 5998, in a military box, is marked with a civilian warranty system. Tubes sold to the US government almost always use the military WW/YY (week/year) system. This suggests that these tubes sold through Valvo might be something less than "official".


----------



## gibosi

Have any of our 300B users tried these yet? It appears that they are shipping.

https://www.westernelectric.com/300b


----------



## Xcalibur255

Would love to see this expand and produce more types of tubes in the future.


----------



## mordy

Drop is coming out with their version of Sennheiser HD800S - HD 8XX. Curious about what people think - it is not out yet. The price is set at $1100.
https://drop.com/buy/drop-sennheise...CampaignId=2200297&iterableTemplateId=3016703
Massdrop recently made available their modified version of the Hifiman HE5XX for $220. Judging from the amount of people selling their new headphones I wonder if it was a flop.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Drop is coming out with their version of Sennheiser HD800S - HD 8XX. Curious about what people think - it is not out yet. The price is set at $1100.
> https://drop.com/buy/drop-sennheise...CampaignId=2200297&iterableTemplateId=3016703
> Massdrop recently made available their modified version of the Hifiman HE5XX for $220. Judging from the amount of people selling their new headphones I wonder if it was a flop.


With the recent announcement that Sennheiser was looking to sell off/outsource their consumer audio business customer confidence is not very high. Coupled with the timing of the announcement being a mere days prior to the 8xx being announced, not to mention the pricing, I for for one am taking a wait and see approach on where and what Sennheiser goes from here, and I will def wait until multiple reviews are out on the 8xx.

The HE5xx as we discussed prior, isnt tuned the same as the HE500. Shame.


----------



## Icarium

gibosi said:


> Have any of our 300B users tried these yet? It appears that they are shipping.
> 
> https://www.westernelectric.com/300b



Damn 3k for a matched quad? pricey. Seems like some hardcore tube heads here, anyone happen to know where I might find a pair of telefunken ad1s besides the pair for 4.7k on ebay atm ;p


----------



## gibosi

Icarium said:


> Damn 3k for a matched quad? pricey. Seems like some hardcore tube heads here, anyone happen to know where I might find a pair of telefunken ad1s besides the pair for 4.7k on ebay atm ;p



You're chasing after some incredibly rare tubes....

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ad1.html

Google translated from German

According to the Telefunken production list, the AD1 was first produced in 1935 in Berlin. The plant had built 264,216 units by 1945. In 1945/46 68 were added, then 2, 1 and finally another 44 in 1952/53. Hardly any replicas ... total of 264,331 pieces. For the earliest model dating with original equipment, the factor of first delivery for test set-ups including specific circuit suggestions from the Reöhern manufacturer or developer has a different meaning depending on the season, which we do not know: finished series devices in the same year or in the following year. The Berlin production list also contains an AD1T for 1938 and states a production of 88,615 of this AD1T by 1945.


----------



## Icarium

I know... its for my Eddie Current balancing act. The sad thing is I made an offer of 1k on a pair 10 years ago and dude turned me down said last pair went for 1.5k.

The same seller has a single telefunken ad1... I don't think I need a matched pair for my use case so I might just try acquiring single tubes over the years. I have a pair of Tungsram NOS (well 1 now, other shattered pulling the tube out of the amp lol).

And several pairs of the EML mesh plate version.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Drop is coming out with their version of Sennheiser HD800S - HD 8XX. Curious about what people think - it is not out yet. The price is set at $1100.
> https://drop.com/buy/drop-sennheise...CampaignId=2200297&iterableTemplateId=3016703
> Massdrop recently made available their modified version of the Hifiman HE5XX for $220. Judging from the amount of people selling their new headphones I wonder if it was a flop.


Mordy...maybe better to look for a nice used HD800, they show up for decent prices now and again.
Try to find one with nice pads because if you need to replace them it will cost you about $100 for original ones


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Mordy...maybe better to look for a nice used HD800, they show up for decent prices now and again.
> Try to find one with nice pads because if you need to replace them it will cost you about $100 for original ones


Thanks - that was my thinking as well, but I did not know that the pads are so expensive....
I have three pairs of Sennheiser headphones:
HD 201 that sounds like 80% of the HD650 after 300 hours of break-in. Used to test amp upon turning on and when trying new tubes - can withstand explosive pops and noise. 
HD 250II which is easily the most comfortable headphone I own - the bass is very good and goes very low. 
HD650 from Massdrop (HD6XX) which continues to impress me but clamps down too hard in the long run. 

$1100 is too steep for me for the Drop HD8XX.

I have heard rumors that ZMF may come out with a budget no frills headphone but so far I haven't seen anything.


----------



## Galapac

mordy said:


> Thanks - that was my thinking as well, but I did not know that the pads are so expensive....
> I have three pairs of Sennheiser headphones:
> HD 201 that sounds like 80% of the HD650 after 300 hours of break-in. Used to test amp upon turning on and when trying new tubes - can withstand explosive pops and noise.
> HD 250II which is easily the most comfortable headphone I own - the bass is very good and goes very low.
> ...


This one or one of their own?
https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/collections/stock-headphones/products/fostex-t50rp


----------



## Monsterzero

Galapac said:


> This one or one of their own?
> https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/collections/stock-headphones/products/fostex-t50rp


ZMF has long been rumored to be releasing a "budget friendly" headphone using proprietary drivers.
The old Fostex based headphones are the headphones Zach used to mod when he first started ZMF.


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 11, 2021)

mordy said:


> Thanks - that was my thinking as well, but I did not know that the pads are so expensive....
> I have three pairs of Sennheiser headphones:
> HD 201 that sounds like 80% of the HD650 after 300 hours of break-in. Used to test amp upon turning on and when trying new tubes - can withstand explosive pops and noise.
> HD 250II which is easily the most comfortable headphone I own - the bass is very good and goes very low.
> ...


Yes, the pads are expensive....so make sure to try to get a pair will pretty good pads, and headband if possible.
I have heard the same rumors, as many have about the budget ZMF.
Hopefully this will happen at some point....keep the faith.

You could get a used ZMF headphone for probably about the same price as a used HD800
A used Atticus would probably be the cheapest option...it is a closed headphone....great mid bass oriented with great slam and great weight to the music.
Cheapest open option probably the Aeolus, which is an open Atticus...I have never heard one, but I would like too.



On this clip at about the 51:45 mark...Zach talks about maybe a more budget friendly headphone.


----------



## Monsterzero

Heads up: I received a quote from

https://www.milspares.co.uk/

the tubes they have are 5998s and asking price converted into USD is $101.00 each, which is a helluva lot cheaper than what Woo audio is charging for 5998s


----------



## bcowen

Monsterzero said:


> Heads up: I received a quote from
> 
> https://www.milspares.co.uk/
> 
> the tubes they have are 5998s and asking price converted into USD is $101.00 each, which is a helluva lot cheaper than what Woo audio is charging for 5998s


That's a good price period if they are (presumably) NOS Tung Sols.  Around $150 seems to be the going price on Ebay from sellers that have a decent track record.


----------



## gibosi

Is anyone running a pair of 6D5, a metal triod?

Actually these are fairly rare as they were never produced in any quantity, and apparently, the metal Raytheon is the rarest. As a consequence there isn't much demand, but it seems that this ebay vendor thinks he has a real treasure. lol 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1935-Rayth...-Power-Output-Development-Sample/114733336060


----------



## bcowen

gibosi said:


> Is anyone running a pair of 6D5, a metal triod?
> 
> Actually these are fairly rare as they were never produced in any quantity, and apparently, the metal Raytheon is the rarest. As a consequence there isn't much demand, but it seems that this ebay vendor thinks he has a real treasure. lol
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1935-Rayth...-Power-Output-Development-Sample/114733336060


LOL!  No free shipping?  I'm out.


----------



## triod750

How unfortunate - only one? I would need two for my Little Dot. I could buy this and then wait for another. Would that be the right thing to do?


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> LOL!  No free shipping?  I'm out.


My thought exactly!!

I am still saving my pennies for this pair: 
https://www.tubedepot.com/products/...ase-300b-black-plate-late-1930-s-matched-pair


----------



## mordy

triod750 said:


> How unfortunate - only one? I would need two for my Little Dot. I could buy this and then wait for another. Would that be the right thing to do?


If you buy, watch out for this:
_*WILL LIKELY USE A THIRD PARTY ESGROW SERVICE WHEN IT COMES TO PAYMENT AND DELIVERY.*_

_But I am not sure what an esgrow svce is ....._


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> My thought exactly!!
> 
> I am still saving my pennies for this pair:
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/...ase-300b-black-plate-late-1930-s-matched-pair


Maybe this will help - I found a 5% off coupon from Tube Depot


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Heads up: I received a quote from
> 
> https://www.milspares.co.uk/
> 
> the tubes they have are 5998s and asking price converted into USD is $101.00 each, which is a helluva lot cheaper than what Woo audio is charging for 5998s


That is a good price for these. Woo's prices are pretty out there, but hey I guess if people buy them.
Have you tried  four 6AS7G's in your Monster amp ?


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> You're chasing after some incredibly rare tubes....
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ad1.html
> 
> ...



Your post caught my attention. I have 2 big custom tube amps on order and one of them is a 300b. WE300b tubes are certainly desirable but I'm afraid I'll have to put off buying expensive 300b tubes to a later date. Still chasing GEC KT88, KT77 and Tung Sol 6550 for the other KT88 amp.  

This pair would have been perfect for me but just not at the right time.
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/342829-fs-western-electric-300b-low-hours-relist/

I'll also share the Sittard GZ34 that you recommended to me. Will be able to use this in my Wa22 and the new tube amps. I also have a Mullard GZ34 f33 that I will be able to compare with Sittard made GZ34. Thanks Ken for the recommendation.

Sittard GZ34


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Your post caught my attention. I have 2 big custom tube amps on order and one of them is a 300b. WE300b tubes are certainly desirable but I'm afraid I'll have to put off buying expensive 300b tubes to a later date. Still chasing GEC KT88, KT77 and Tung Sol 6550 for the other KT88 amp.
> 
> This pair would have been perfect for me but just not at the right time.
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/342829-fs-western-electric-300b-low-hours-relist/
> ...


I want to eventually snag a KT77
Put Mullard EL37 on your list...it is worthy.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I want to eventually snag a KT77
> Put Mullard EL37 on your list...it is worthy.


I already have a pair of EL39. Can't buy NOS tubes fast enough !!!


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> That is a good price for these. Woo's prices are pretty out there, but hey I guess if people buy them.
> Have you tried  four 6AS7G's in your Monster amp ?


I have not, in fact I havent removed the 6bx7s from my amp in over one year. Theyre my fav power tubes for the VC, which is essentially the only headphone I listen to anymore.

Im afraid to admit that my tube rolling days are probably a thing of the past, which is why I dont post in this thread much any longer.


----------



## UntilThen

This is the pair that I love. Radiotron 807 NOS NIB.


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> My thought exactly!!
> 
> I am still saving my pennies for this pair:
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/...ase-300b-black-plate-late-1930-s-matched-pair


But then you'd need a backup pair of course.  I'll sell you my factory matched quad of '58's for $50k.  WITH free shipping.    But that's only for you...no free shipping for @UntilThen .


----------



## eee1111

is it possible to join the waitlist or am I crazy to even ask


----------



## Galapac

Monsterzero said:


> I have not, in fact I havent removed the 6bx7s from my amp in over one year. Theyre my fav power tubes for the VC, which is essentially the only headphone I listen to anymore.
> 
> Im afraid to admit that my tube rolling days are probably a thing of the past, which is why I dont post in this thread much any longer.


It’s nice to hear when someone has found his/her endgame.


----------



## Monsterzero

eee1111 said:


> is it possible to join the waitlist or am I crazy to even ask


the only thing you can do is drop a PM to @2359glenn and see what he says. I know he is ultra busy, but it cant hurt to ask. Good luck.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Maybe this will help - I found a 5% off coupon from Tube Depot


@mordy - can I stack 19 of those, and pay 5% ?!   


bcowen said:


> But then you'd need a backup pair of course.  I'll sell you my factory matched quad of '58's for $50k.  WITH free shipping.    But that's only for you...no free shipping for @UntilThen .


Joking aside, how rich do you have to be to actually *use *$20K tubes in your amp?!


----------



## Zachik

eee1111 said:


> is it possible to join the waitlist or am I crazy to even ask





Monsterzero said:


> the only thing you can do is drop a PM to @2359glenn and see what he says. I know he is ultra busy, but it cant hurt to ask. Good luck.


I have been trying to get a response from Glenn for the last 2-3 months... No luck so far!
I really hope the guy is doing well...


----------



## raindownthunda

Zachik said:


> I have been trying to get a response from Glenn for the last 2-3 months... No luck so far!
> I really hope the guy is doing well...


Same here. I looked up his profile and no activity on head-fi since Nov 2020. Does anyone have his phone number they can call to check to see how he's doing? Hope Glenn is doing well and just taking a hiatus from head-fi for a while.


----------



## triod750

Zachik said:


> @mordy - can I stack 19 of those, and pay 5% ?!
> 
> Joking aside, how rich do you have to be to actually *use *$20K tubes in your amp?!


You just need to be rich enough to have them. Then you just use them. That's what they are made for. You can't listen to money - their FR is 'orrible.


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> Joking aside, how rich do you have to be to actually *use *$20K tubes in your amp?!


 I know people that spent more than that on a couple power cords.  It's all relative.  And I have no relatives rich enough to let me play with $20k worth of tubes.  LOL!!


----------



## Zachik

triod750 said:


> *You just need to be rich enough to have them.* Then you just use them. That's what they are made for. You can't listen to money - their FR is 'orrible.





bcowen said:


> *I know people that spent more than that on a couple power cords.*  It's all relative.  And I have no relatives rich enough to let me play with $20k worth of tubes.  LOL!!


The thing is, tubes can burn without notice! Power cords are "good for ever"... 
I cannot begin to imagine how I would feel if a $10K tube burns!   
IMHO it's like buying a $20K car, and park it on the street with no insurance. How would you feel if you wake up one day, look out the window and discover someone stole your car??


----------



## triod750

You have to listen carefully until it burns. I know a guy who has two pairs. They were gifted to him. Is he rich? No, they have no value if he doesn't use them. He has to sell them to make them valuable to himself. But if nobody dares to buy them? Fun fact; he isn't impressed by 300B. He likes EL84 very much though.


----------



## jonathan c (Apr 13, 2021)

Galapac said:


> It’s nice to hear when someone has found his/her endgame.


Ahh!...whenever I feel in a head-fi ‘endgame’ situation, the wonder about the next ‘season’ is not far behind...


----------



## jonathan c

Zachik said:


> @mordy - can I stack 19 of those, and pay 5% ?!
> 
> Joking aside, how rich do you have to be to actually *use *$20K tubes in your amp?!


Not as rich as if you were only *collecting* $20k tubes...


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> I have been trying to get a response from Glenn for the last 2-3 months... No luck so far!
> I really hope the guy is doing well...


I sure hope Glenn is ok.


----------



## Galapac

jonathan c said:


> Ahh!...whenever I feel in a head-fi ‘endgame’ situation, the wonder about the next ‘season’ is not far behind...


But at least you take pause to enjoy...some eternally chase the dragon for that sometimes elusive 1%.


----------



## jonathan c

Galapac said:


> But at least you take pause to enjoy...some eternally chase the dragon for that sometimes elusive 1%.


This hobby is a Zeno paradox indeed: the next step is halfway to the goal...never reached...


----------



## UntilThen

jonathan c said:


> This hobby is a Zeno paradox indeed: the next step is halfway to the goal...never reached...


Well after the next 2 tube amps, I’m done. I don’t care if it’s not the end. I won’t spend another dime on tube amps.... maybe just tubes.


----------



## leftside

Zachik said:


> @mordy - can I stack 19 of those, and pay 5% ?!
> 
> Joking aside, how rich do you have to be to actually *use *$20K tubes in your amp?!


No one would use them. You'd have to be totally crazy to. Collectors only go after those types of tubes. These beautiful almost 100 years old antiques should be preserved - especially when you can buy 300B new production tubes tubes from Tak that sound very good. 

There are two very different markets for tubes. Collectors and users. I guess I consider myself both. There's no way I would use any of my expensive tubes these days. But, I sure have a lot of fun using the cheaper tubes


----------



## UntilThen

Oh gosh Leftside if you won’t use your expensive tubes, I can use it for you.  

This is what I will do. I will buy the pair of GEC KT88 nos nib and keep it. I will use my el cheapo Genalex Gold Lion KT88 instead.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> This is what I will do. I will buy the pair of GEC KT88 nos nib and keep it. I will use my el cheapo Genalex Gold Lion KT88 instead.


I think some people do exactly that! No joke.


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> I think some people do exactly that! No joke.


🤪

I will however buy these pairs of lightly use GEC KT77 and Tung Sol 6550 and use it. It’s still $450 a pair !


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> 🤪
> 
> I will however buy these pairs of lightly use GEC KT77 and Tung Sol 6550 and use it. It’s still $450 a pair !


I would use these, but no way would I use a NOS pair of KT88,,,,those are just too rare and are collector tubes for sure.

I had a very small amount of contact with Glenn some time ago and he was about a couple of weeks away from getting his 2nd vaccine shot.
Was pretty busy with work. I hope the 2nd shot went well for him.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> 🤪
> 
> I will however buy these pairs of lightly use GEC KT77 and Tung Sol 6550 and use it. It’s still $450 a pair !


I have a couple of pairs of GEC KT77 that look like that and test around 80%, so I have no issue with using them. If they were NIB/NOS then they would stay that way.

A cheaper option to the GEC KT77 is the GEC E3375. As far as I can tell, they have exactly the same construction as the KT77, but have a top cap. I can't tell any difference in sound either.


----------



## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> I already have a pair of EL39. Can't buy NOS tubes fast enough !!!


If you send me the AUD or USD, I can help 😆


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> I sure hope Glenn is ok.



I got word from a mutual friend:

"I am in touch with Glenn he's well and he had both his Pfizer shots.
He relocated to another town in NC working hard.
He's working long hours and I'm afraid he doesn't have a lot of free time."

So no telling when he might have time to build amps again, but it does appear that he is OK.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> He's working long hours and I'm afraid he doesn't have a lot of free time.


That is in line with what he wrote last time he responded to me, but that was 3 months ago or so...
Glad to hear he's still doing OK (other than working himself too hard )


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> IMHO it's like buying a $20K car, and park it on the street with no insurance. How would you feel if you wake up one day, look out the window and discover someone stole your car??


Personally, I would feel pretty stupid for not insuring it.  

(then I would call Guido and Vinnie to go find the thief and "educate" him).


----------



## UntilThen

You have a couple of pairs of GEC KT77 did you say @leftside  ?   I run a Gold Lion KT77 in the Elekit TU-8200 before the amp gave up it's ghost and I love KT77. Great tone really. Thanks for the tip on GEC E3375. Wouldn't have known if you didn't tell me. Can you link where you can buy the adapters for E3375 to KT88?

@jonathan c , what you want is Canadian dollars and for that see Leftside. 

Thanks @gibosi . Glad to know Glenn's well. What he didn't know when I came back a while ago to say hello, I had the intention of resurrecting the Berlin project with him. It's ok, he busy and I did appreciate the joy and fun I had when we discussed GOTL and he got the super OTL made for me a couple of years. Time flies.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Apr 14, 2021)

I have struggled really hard about whether or not to post this given it's sensitive information, but Glenn has been very public about his health issues in the past and I decided that it would do more good than harm for people to know and take the situation into account before sending him PMs asking for updates on projects.

In short what others have said is correct, he's busy with work and life, but there is something else too:  he had to undergo another round of chemotherapy for his cancer and that's a very tough thing to have to go through.  It's absolutely incredible he still works full time while undergoing something like that.  I'm pretty sure I couldn't do it.

So for people here wondering why the lack of communication I would encourage patience and understanding.  As for myself I just hope Glenn is finding some time for himself amongst things to enjoy life and music still.


----------



## chrisdrop

Xcalibur255 said:


> I have struggled really hard about whether or not to post this given it's sensitive information, but Glenn has been very public about his health issues in the past and I decided that it would do more good than harm for people to know and take the situation into account before sending him PMs asking for updates on projects.
> 
> In short what others have said is correct, he's busy with work and life, but there is something else too:  he had to undergo another round of chemotherapy for his cancer and that's a very tough thing to have to go through.  It's absolutely incredible he still works full time while undergoing something like that.  I'm pretty sure I couldn't do it.
> 
> So for people here wondering why the lack of communication I would encourage patience and understanding.  As for myself I just hope Glenn is finding some time for himself amongst things to enjoy life and music still.


Thank you very much for sharing. Many have worried for Glenn, myself included. It is harsh to have to work so hard, be truly ill, to move house, the COVID backdrop etc. I'd not wish for that and as you say, I'd probably not manage it myself.



> I just hope Glenn is finding some time for himself amongst things to enjoy life and music still.


Well said. I'll second that.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

UntilThen said:


> I sure hope Glenn is ok.


Had a chat with Glenn recently, as mentioned by other member, he has got his first shot. He was down with Chemo hence inactivity in the forum. He is doing good now & has started building amps again. Hope he will be active in forum soon.


----------



## UntilThen

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Had a chat with Glenn recently, as mentioned by other member, he has got his first shot. He was down with Chemo hence inactivity in the forum. He is doing good now & has started building amps again. Hope he will be active in forum soon.


Thanks for the update. I have a colleague with stage 4 bowel cancer and I know what it's like. I just wish Glenn well.


----------



## whirlwind

Rolled amps and headphones this morning.....much enjoying the new Bonamassa album.








If you like bluesy stuff it is a must listen





Been listening to a little of these guys too.....Blue Grass, hockey and AC/DC...who would've thunk it


----------



## Zachik

@whirlwind - how do the EL37 tubes compare to the EL34 and other output tubes on your GEL3N?


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> If you like bluesy stuff it is a must listen



I like bluesy and there's no better amp to use than an old school design transfo coupled tube amp. Now looking at your amp, my forthcoming tube amp (Odyssey) will have some similarities. I will use EL11 instead of your EL3N. (twin brothers tubes). Wonder if an adapter could be crafted to use EL3N in a EL11 socket. Must check with @Deyan.

I will have addtionally a socket for 6SL7/6SN7 as a single double triode driver, into which I can also use 12au7/12at7/12ax7 via an adapter. Power tubes and rectifier will be similar to yours, except I can use a whole range of power tubes including KT150, EL156, 807, EL39, KT88, 6550, etc. It will be interesting to put both amps together for a listen.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Rolled amps and headphones this morning.....much enjoying the new Bonamassa album.


I've just bought 2 Joe Bonamassa CDs...

  1) Joe Bonamassa "DUST BOWL" as new condition $15 and 2) Beth Hart and Joe Bonamassa "Black Coffee" as new condition $15.

That's Aussie dollars. How's that for cheap?


----------



## attmci

Xcalibur255 said:


> I have struggled really hard about whether or not to post this given it's sensitive information, but Glenn has been very public about his health issues in the past and I decided that it would do more good than harm for people to know and take the situation into account before sending him PMs asking for updates on projects.
> 
> In short what others have said is correct, he's busy with work and life, but there is something else too:  he had to undergo another round of chemotherapy for his cancer and that's a very tough thing to have to go through.  It's absolutely incredible he still works full time while undergoing something like that.  I'm pretty sure I couldn't do it.
> 
> So for people here wondering why the lack of communication I would encourage patience and understanding.  As for myself I just hope Glenn is finding some time for himself amongst things to enjoy life and music still.


Please let him know there is a super drug called KEYTRUDA which may help him. pls. 
KEYTRUDA® (pembrolizumab)​


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 19, 2021)

UntilThen said:


> I like bluesy and there's no better amp to use than an old school design transfo coupled tube amp. Now looking at your amp, my forthcoming tube amp (Odyssey) will have some similarities. I will use EL11 instead of your EL3N. (twin brothers tubes). Wonder if an adapter could be crafted to use EL3N in a EL11 socket. Must check with @Deyan.
> 
> I will have addtionally a socket for 6SL7/6SN7 as a single double triode driver, into which I can also use 12au7/12at7/12ax7 via an adapter. Power tubes and rectifier will be similar to yours, except I can use a whole range of power tubes including KT150, EL156, 807, EL39, KT88, 6550, etc. It will be interesting to put both amps together for a listen.


That will be a killer amp....congrats     






Zachik said:


> @whirlwind - how do the EL37 tubes compare to the EL34 and other output tubes on your GEL3N?



My personal favorites would be in this order. Take into account that my favorite music is guitar heavy   
Mullard EL34
Mullard EL37
GEC KT66
EL3N & GEC KT63 are also very nice.
As far as pure detail, if one prefers this, then the GEC KT66 would be best for that.
As always YMMV.






UntilThen said:


> I've just bought 2 Joe Bonamassa CDs...
> 
> 1) Joe Bonamassa "DUST BOWL" as new condition $15 and 2) Beth Hart and Joe Bonamassa "Black Coffee" as new condition $15.
> 
> That's Aussie dollars. How's that for cheap?


Good albums, however I don't know the breakdown of Aussie dollars vs the US dollar


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Good albums, however I don't know the breakdown of Aussie dollars vs the US dollar


Those 2 CDs would cost US$23.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Those 2 CDs would cost US$23.


Then I would say, yes you did well


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> That will be a killer amp....congrats


Whether that is a killer amp or it will kill me, only time can tell. Odyssey build begins in June. Another amp, a 300b that I've called Destiny begins build this week from an Aussie tube amp builder. Odyssey will have silver chassis and Destiny is getting gold. 

Build starting mid-year means I'll get them way before Christmas and I'm tired of getting amps just before Christmas because it will ruin my Christmas. GOTL and Oblivion arrive just before Christmas in 2017 and 2019 respectively.


----------



## whirlwind

You shall be in amp heaven! Good times ahead.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes no more amps after that. I need one more headphone. That's where I upgrade the LCD-3f to LCD-4. Buy more blues and classic rock albums and some nice vocals. I'm looking at this. https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/344659-sade-love-deluxe/


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Yes no more amps after that. I need one more headphone. That's where I upgrade the LCD-3f to LCD-4. Buy more blues and classic rock albums and some nice vocals. I'm looking at this. https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/344659-sade-love-deluxe/


If you are a Beth Hart fan...Live In Amsterdam is very good.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

Having spent a good while with these wonderful tubes, I am ready to share my impressions and comparisons!






Power tubes comparison first, which I listened to with the National Union grey glass 6SN7 as driver. The NU has a very distinctive warmth, great bass depth and super smooth treble tone characteristic of NU tubes. More below where I compare it a little to the GEC inputs 

*GEC 6080 + NU 6SN7*
Compared to the 6AS7 and CV4079/A2293, the GEC 6080 is definitely the smoothest and easiest to listen to. Its excels the most in the mids, where it imbues the music with amazing warmth, tonal colour and soul- the GEC sound. It also has the most rolled off treble of the three, which definitely serves to enhance the definition and prominence of the midrange. Vocals sound natural and effortless, and I believe that any music that aims to portray the human voice would benefit greatly from this combination. The upper-bass and lower-mids are well textured and dynamic, but the bass is very relaxed, and could benefit from a little more attack and extension. These had the most bass bloom, which contributed to the smooth and natural tone. If listening to more complex music, one may want a bright input tube with quicker attack and bite to avoid sounding too sluggish. The treble is airy and well defined, but noticeably rolled off when compared directly to the other power tubes. It is also a little dry and possibly thin at times in the top registers, but only in comparison to the lushness of the rest of its frequencies. Overall, although there is a lot of warmth and midrange presence, the sound does not tend to linger- notes seem to fade a little faster than natural- giving a sense of smaller acoustic space. This presentation can be beneficial especially in bringing the mids forward to create a more intimate soundstage. I think the 6080 can add appropriate warmth to a bright driver, and is definitely the best tube out of the three for pleasant laid-back listening, easily enjoyable tone, and warmth without sacrificing much in terms of technicalities.

*GEC CV4079 + NU 6SN7*
The gain of these tubes is a bit higher, so I made sure to listen at various volumes, and only note differences that were still clear at audibly lower volumes. Note that these are the 'newer', grey plate ring getter versions, and I have not heard the older black plate/square getter A2293 versions which are supposed to sound a bit darker.

The first thing I noticed was an immediate step up in clarity, extension and tightness of the bass. There was also a major boost in upper mid and treble energy- the treble was more prominent, extended and airy, with impressively sparkle. This created a very dynamic presentation- attack of notes were more immediate, but also a little dry sounding as a result. The enhanced treble also gave a better sense of soundstage, especially in depth, and separation. Overall, these are definitely more detailed and push the mids more front and centre than the  6080, making it sound almost a bit veiled and slow in comparison. A very clean sounding, highly resolving tube, great for complex music, reminding me of the TS 7236 but with the GEC bass and midrange tone. In my notes, I summarised the following comparison; detailed, technically proficient, accurate CV4079 vs. intimate, romantic, lush 6080.

*GEC CV2523/6AS7 + NU 6SN7*
The 6AS7 bass is of similar quantity and extension to the CV4079, but with slightly more bloom. It delivers a warm, enveloping sound, stemming from this controlled bloom in the lower mids/upper bass. Midrange is somewhat forward (not as much as the CV4079- like sitting a few rows back vs. front row) and exudes the GEC sound like the 6080, rendering it incredibly refined and smooth. These mids are my favourite for having the richest and most detailed sound, but are actually pushed further back into the stage, I think because of the increased energy in the frequencies around it (upper bass / lower treble). The 6AS7 definitely has the most energy in the upper mids and lower treble, making the overall presentation lighter, more transparent and refined without sacrificing any warmth and body from the low end. The treble is also appreciably smoother and less aggressive compared to CV4079. It also seems to extend a touch further, with really sparkly yet non-fatiguing details. I found the imaging and sense of stage to be more accurate as well- there is a clear sense of 'layers' in the sound in complex passages, which is less immediately obvious for the other tubes. There is a lot of detail, particularly microdetails, tied together coherently with a natural and expansive tone. Overall, there is a sense of restrained gentleness, but with the ability to generate lusciousness on demand. Compared to the CV4079, over all its frequencies, it sounded just a touch less forward and technically precise, but with a more airy, elegant presentation that was more tonally pleasant and musical.

I then swapped over to the TS 5998 in order to compare driver tubes; this allowed me to make a comparison between the 5998 and GEC 6AS7 too.

*TS 5998 + NU 6SN7*
There is noticeably tighter and bigger bass than the GEC 6AS7. The lower end is what I think the 5998 does best, giving a really deep, warm sound without sacrificing any detail or quality of attack. The treble is a touch more rolled and warmer, but again managing to convey all the microdetails effortlessly. Overall, the 5998 seems to have slightly better technicalities (perhaps due to more emphasis in the extreme lowest and highest registers) and sound 'faster' in its attack and clarity, while still adding dollops of warmth across its frequencies, particularly warmer than the GEC in the upper mids. The warmth does make it a bit less delicate and airy sounding, in exchange for a more powerful, dynamic and punchy presentation. I found it had a similar tonal presentation to GEC 6080, but with better speed and technicalities across the board especially in its sense of warmth and decay, giving a better sense of grandeur and space. The GEC 6AS7 had bigger soundstage still (a little in width but especially in depth), with even more air and space/separation between instruments. Overall, the 5998 presentation is euphonic with lots of microdetail, and slightly warm of neutral. It again excels on vocal heavy music, but I found it to be not as tonally accurate as the GEC 6AS7 for acoustic instruments. With a slightly more rolled off treble and higher gain though, I found I was able to turn up the volume more to hear more microdetails without the overall presentation being too loud. Compared to the 5998, the TS 6080 which more may be familiar with is very similar in tone but more aggressive in the treble and with weaker bass.

A comparison of the GEC driver tubes, paired with the 5998.

*TS 5998 + Grey glass metal bass L63*
These are much more resolving and transparent sounding compared to the NU. Overall, there is a lighter and airier sound with incredible levels of detail, but the mids are drier with less lushness and richness. These L63 have a very similar tonal presentation to the GEC 6AS7, with a great deal of treble energy and detail readily available. I would personally want an even warmer power tube to tame this energy. Nevertheless, the warm treble of 5998 matched quite well with the airy transparency of GEC treble. The soundstage of this combination was veritably huge in all directions! While the midbass was strong, I found the bass to be a little lacking in extension, quality and texture compared to the NU- a little polite sounding and not enough to offset the enhanced treble energy.

*TS 5998 + Grey glass ST shaped L63*
These are the older shouldered glass L63. I found the mids to be much more engaging and resonant, being brought more forward with more warmth. There was no sense of dryness that was apparent with the metal base. The treble also sounded sweeter with more presence without excessive brightness- the top end in fact is the most rolled off of the three input tubes. The overall presentation was slightly less aggressive, smoother and with more enjoyable tone and fuller sound. Imaging also seemed slightly more accurate with each instrument occupying  a more defined space, and tracking singers moving across a stage was noticeably more precise. Perhaps most enjoyable was its greater dynamic range- soft notes in particular were more gentle without being inaudible. The bass was bigger with more resonance and decay, slightly better texture and attack, and definitely deeper extension. I found these tubes fetched more microdetails from the music, especially noticeable in complex orchestral passages, while retaining a balance of tonalities true to the instruments and their acoustic space.

*TS 5998 + brown base L63*
The bass texture and extension of these are as good or even better than the ST shaped L63. There is increased clarity and tightness across the whole frequency range, with the treble being more forward with lots of detail, but without the dryness present in the metal base L63. I believe this one pairs better with the TS5998, being not as warm as the ST shaped L63 which would benefit from a power tube that is a little more neutral or transparent. There was more apparent weight and complexity to sound with more air and space, while retaining an airy and spacious presentation. Overall, it has the detail and technicalities of metal base, with a tone more similar to ST glass- the treble is certainly very strong but not as prominent as the metal base. I would liken the brown base L63 to the brown base GEC 6AS7, and the grey glass ST shaped L63 to the GEC 6080 in terms of tone and overall presentation. 

Having listened to all these tubes and understood the characteristics a little better, I think that the 'too much GEC' problem can occur when too much upper end detail and airiness is combined together without appropriate bass and midrange warmth to support it. The combination of the 6AS7 with the ST shaped L63 based on my notes seemed to be able to avoid this problem, and listening to them proved my assumptions to be true to my ears. It had the best presentation overall for me judged in terms of combined tonality, technicalities and enjoyment of the music. I believe this was also Glenn's favourite combination! 

I have had a great time playing around with the GEC tubes, and although my comparisons above make it seem like there are huge differences, in reality their overall presentation and tone are all still quite similar! I'm ready for a change of pace and will be listening to some beautiful 6C4 tubes which have arrived from @Velozity. They are in top condition and were wonderfully packed. Anyone thinking of buying tubes from him, buy with confidence! A small comparison of the 6C4 tubes will be in the works as well


----------



## Zachik

+1 for @Velozity being a great guy (and seller)!


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> +1 for @Velozity being a great guy (and seller)!


And +1 to @tintinsnowydog for taking the time to share such nicely detailed listening impressions.  Great info, and greatly appreciated!


----------



## mordy

tintinsnowydog said:


> Having spent a good while with these wonderful tubes, I am ready to share my impressions and comparisons!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great write-up!
It would be helpful if you could tell us which headphones and ancillaries were used as well.


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> And +1 to @tintinsnowydog for taking the time to share such nicely detailed listening impressions.  Great info, and greatly appreciated!


@bcowen - I think you should send some of your top GE tubes, for @tintinsnowydog to have GE vs. GEC death match!


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

UntilThen said:


> I like bluesy and there's no better amp to use than an old school design transfo coupled tube amp. Now looking at your amp, my forthcoming tube amp (Odyssey) will have some similarities. I will use EL11 instead of your EL3N. (twin brothers tubes). Wonder if an adapter could be crafted to use EL3N in a EL11 socket. Must check with @Deyan.
> 
> I will have addtionally a socket for 6SL7/6SN7 as a single double triode driver, into which I can also use 12au7/12at7/12ax7 via an adapter. Power tubes and rectifier will be similar to yours, except I can use a whole range of power tubes including KT150, EL156, 807, EL39, KT88, 6550, etc. It will be interesting to put both amps together for a listen.


Odyssey amps.... https://odysseyaudio.com/ (this brand?)


----------



## gibosi

tintinsnowydog said:


> Having spent a good while with these wonderful tubes, I am ready to share my impressions and comparisons!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I assume the amp is a Glenn OTL with HEXFRED rectification?

Great write up by the way!


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> @bcowen - I think you should send some of your top GE tubes, for @tintinsnowydog to have GE vs. GEC death match!


I don't know @tintinsnowydog and would only be that cruel to someone I know.   What was your address again?


----------



## Xcalibur255

@tintinsnowydog 

Excellent write-up and technical coverage.  Your review kind of sealed the deal that I need to get myself a pair of the older ST L63.  I was hoping to be content with just the straight glass brown base, but I believe I'm missing out on something now.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Apr 19, 2021)

It's so ironic and weird that we all love GEC and despise GE when both companies are General Electric.  What a difference a jump across a pond makes.


----------



## Velozity

Xcalibur255 said:


> It's so ironic and weird that we all love GEC and despise GE when both are companies are General Electric.  What a difference a jump across a pond makes.



I have to exempt myself from the "despise GE" camp.  I think the GE triple mica 6C4WA / JG-6100 / 6135 are some of the best of the family and in a dual-6C4 to 6SN7 adapter situation sounds better than any 6SN7 I've tried.


----------



## triod750

tintinsnowydog said:


> Having spent a good while with these wonderful tubes, I am ready to share my impressions and comparisons!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very intriguing and informative. Even if I were able to catch all these differences and details I would never be able to put them into words in such a clear and concise way. 
Thank you very much!

Don't forget that you have a lot more tubes to go through and report on.


----------



## whirlwind

Velozity said:


> I have to exempt myself from the "despise GE" camp.  I think the GE triple mica 6C4WA / JG-6100 / 6135 are some of the best of the family and in a dual-6C4 to 6SN7 adapter situation sounds better than any 6SN7 I've tried.


I am with you....there are good tubes out there.







tintinsnowydog said:


> Having spent a good while with these wonderful tubes, I am ready to share my impressions and comparisons!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, what a well written review, well done.

I am debating brown base L63 now. I have three sets of grey glass coke bottles.


----------



## UntilThen

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Odyssey amps.... https://odysseyaudio.com/ (this brand?)


 No. I didn't know there's a high end Odyssey brand and that sure look impressive but those are speaker amps with solid power and impeccable finish. My amp will be made by Ultrasonic Studio in June.

@tintinsnowydog  has a customized La Figaro 339i using the best parts and is made by Yuking. The drivers are tailored for L63, 6J5, etc. He has shared what's inside the amp and it's no ordinary LF339i. Great write up mate.


----------



## Zachik

Velozity said:


> I have to exempt myself from the "despise GE" camp.  I think the GE triple mica 6C4WA / JG-6100 / 6135 are some of the best of the family and in a dual-6C4 to 6SN7 adapter situation sounds better than any 6SN7 I've tried.


Yeah - I tried those in my GOTL as well, and really liked them too!
@bcowen got any for sale?


----------



## triod750

Zachik said:


> @bcowen got any for sale?


+1. I could even take them for free to show my good will!


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> Yeah - I tried those in my GOTL as well, and really liked them too!
> @bcowen got any for sale?


I _just_ got back from the dumpster getting stuff for dinner.  Now I gotta go back and get some tubes?  Damnit.


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> I _just_ got back from the dumpster getting stuff for dinner.  Now I gotta go back and get some tubes?  Damnit.


Get a dozen GE tubes for the cart.


----------



## bcowen

UntilThen said:


> Get a dozen GE tubes for the cart.


There may not be enough room left once we get that Akai installed.


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> There may not be enough room left once we get that Akai installed.


Get a bigger cart. I have an open reel coming.


----------



## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> Get a bigger cart. I have an open reel coming.


Don’t forget the double 24” Hartley subwoofer and the Heil ESS amt towers.....(leave the clubs in the lake if not there already...)


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Don’t forget the double 24” Hartley subwoofer and the Heil ESS amt towers.....(leave the clubs in the lake if not there already...)


The clubs are already towed behind. Where else am I supposed to strap in the keg of Bud Light?   Adding the Hartley and Heils would mean I'd have to tow @UntilThen behind too, which is a surprisingly good idea that hadn't yet occurred to me.


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> The clubs are already towed behind. Where else am I supposed to strap in the keg of Bud Light?   Adding the Hartley and Heils would mean I'd have to tow @UntilThen behind too, which is a surprisingly good idea that hadn't yet occurred to me.


Don't forget I have Qobuz and Tidal now. Make sure there's room in the cart for it.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> The clubs are already towed behind. Where else am I supposed to strap in the keg of Bud Light?   Adding the Hartley and Heils would mean I'd have to tow @UntilThen behind too, which is a surprisingly good idea that hadn't yet occurred to me.


Bud light?....where’s the Foster’s?.....


----------



## bcowen

UntilThen said:


> Don't forget I have Qobuz and Tidal now. Make sure there's room in the cart for it.


Awwww, man. Now we're gonna have to tow me behind too.  Or get a new cart.  Please order one with Carolina Blue seats though.  I have standards.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Awwww, man. Now we're gonna have to tow me behind too.  Or get a new cart.  Please order one with Carolina Blue seats though.  I have standards.


...since the clubs are in the lake, you could play ‘marcel Marceau’ golf from the _blue_ tees...


----------



## Zachik

jonathan c said:


> Bud light?....where’s the Foster’s?.....


Bud light?  Where is the beer???


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> Awwww, man. Now we're gonna have to tow me behind too.  Or get a new cart.  Please order one with Carolina Blue seats though.  I have standards.



Hilarious Bill. I have to pay you comedian fees now. That's a beautiful cart for groupies.  Now when are we straying back to audio? I will take the initiative and show you Destiny's gold front panel.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

mordy said:


> Great write-up!
> It would be helpful if you could tell us which headphones and ancillaries were used as well.


My setup is Tidal --> Gustard X20pro DAC --> HEXFRED GOTL --> HD800 (with Dekoni velour pads for completeness). I ought to put it in my description!


Xcalibur255 said:


> Excellent write-up and technical coverage.  Your review kind of sealed the deal that I need to get myself a pair of the older ST L63.  I was hoping to be content with just the straight glass brown base, but I believe I'm missing out on something now.


Now I feel responsible for fuelling the tube-buying addiction- always just one more to try.... 


whirlwind said:


> I am debating brown base L63 now. I have three sets of grey glass coke bottles.


I definitely think that each of the L63 have their merits. It would be worth having a pair of the brown base L63 even with the grey glass coke bottles in hand, especially since they are very affordable!



bcowen said:


> I don't know @tintinsnowydog and would only be that cruel to someone I know.   What was your address again?


Never one to say no to more toobs- GE have great potential and can be turned into GEC with a stroke of a permanent marker


----------



## Zachik

tintinsnowydog said:


> GE have great potential and can be turned into GEC with a stroke of a permanent marker


Not so loud - you'll reveal bangy bang's secret!!  🤫


----------



## UntilThen (Apr 20, 2021)

tintinsnowydog said:


> My setup is Tidal --> Gustard X20pro DAC --> HEXFRED GOTL --> HD800 (with Dekoni velour pads for completeness). I ought to put it in my description!


Congrats. Didn't know you had a GOTL. I spend the good part of a year using Yggdrasil, Hexfred GOTL and HD800 and later ZMF Verite LTD Open arrived. I was however most captivated by a single Mullard ECC35 or Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and 6 x 6BX7gt. My first listen of the GOTL was with c3g(s) as drivers and sextet 6bx7gt and that was explosive and dynamite.

@paramesh has my GOTL now. It was a love affair of 2 long years. It was a sale that I would often question myself why? Similar to the Studio Six sale. 2 tube amps sold that would make me reminisce about my time with them.

It was GOTL that made me sell my Ragnarok of less than a year.


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Not so loud - you'll reveal bangy bang's secret!!  🤫


Every day you can find GE tubes that sellers list as GEC.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Every day you can find GE tubes that sellers list as GEC.


Joking aside, I can see that happen as an honest mistake born from ignorance by eBay sellers who have no idea about tubes at all.
Totally different when the seller is doing it deceitfully...


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Every day you can find GE tubes that sellers list as GEC.



See (C) , didn't I tell you that is a GE ? but obviously you didn't C right?


----------



## Xcalibur255

bcowen said:


> The clubs are already towed behind. Where else am I supposed to strap in the keg of Bud Light?   Adding the Hartley and Heils would mean I'd have to tow @UntilThen behind too, which is a surprisingly good idea that hadn't yet occurred to me.


Bud Light and GE tubes.  Can life get any better?


----------



## bcowen

Xcalibur255 said:


> Bud Light and GE tubes.  Can life get any better?


Can't get any worse, that's for sure.


----------



## Monsterzero

bcowen said:


> Can't get any worse, that's for sure.


$1000.00 GEC 6as7g w/ saucer getter + Schaefer


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> $1000.00 GEC 6as7g w/ saucer getter + Schaefer



Letting go on my GEC 6as7g for the 2nd time at US$500 does seem a mistake now but I've move on from the 6as7 / 6080 range.


----------



## bcowen

UntilThen said:


> Letting go on my GEC 6as7g for the 2nd time at US$500 does seem a mistake now but I've move on from the 6as7 / 6080 range.


As long as you're going to 300B's instead, I'll sign your hall pass for you.


----------



## bcowen

Monsterzero said:


> $1000.00 GEC 6as7g w/ saucer getter + Schaefer


Saucer getter?  You mean like a UFO getter?  Or said another way, a $15 Svetlana relabeled as a GEC?


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> As long as you're going to 300B's instead, I'll sign your hall pass for you.


Well you better sign the hall pass then because my 300b is being made right now.


----------



## UntilThen

Since there’s no GEC 300b, I’ll just get Genalex 300b instead.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Letting go on my GEC 6as7g for the 2nd time at US$500 does seem a mistake now but I've move on from the 6as7 / 6080 range.


You should keep them. For when you get another 6AS7/6080 amp.


----------



## Galapac

leftside said:


> You should keep them. For when you get another 6AS7/6080 amp.


Consider them an investment that a burglar wouldn’t steal as they wouldn’t know what they were.


----------



## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> Well you better sign the hall pass _*and backdate it*_ because my 300b is being made right now.


----------



## triod750

I know where he can find another - in Bulgaria:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-GEC-...217597?hash=item2d2b135cfd:g:3msAAOSw5lZgXRo3


----------



## jonathan c

Galapac said:


> Consider them an investment that a burglar wouldn’t steal as they wouldn’t know what they were.


Even if you left the GE tubes in an open box labeled “free: help yourself”, the burglar would pass...


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> You should keep them. For when you get another 6AS7/6080 amp.



Ah you tempt me Leftside. Perhaps there will be another parallel 6as7g amp in 2023. Then I can use my 5998/6as7/6080. And 6336b? Maybe.


----------



## UntilThen

Galapac said:


> Consider them an investment that a burglar wouldn’t steal as they wouldn’t know what they were.


That would be hilarious. I think burglars need to go for a course to find out what's valuable. Picking up GE instead of GEC would be a stigma on burglar reputation in the dark world.


----------



## bcowen

UntilThen said:


> Since there’s no GEC 300b, I’ll just get Genalex 300b instead.


I haven't heard the Genalex.  They may sound good....for Russian tubes.  But don't spend time fartin' around.  Just get some WE's and call it a day.  These first generation reissues are quite good.


----------



## gibosi

And then there are these:

https://www.westernelectric.com/300b
A matched Pair for $1499


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> I haven't heard the Genalex.  They may sound good....for Russian tubes.  But don't spend time fartin' around.  Just get some WE's and call it a day.  These first generation reissues are quite good.



At that price I need to fart around.   Didn't you know that the Genalex Gold Lion current production tubes are the best at the $500 mark? There's no peers. This is the real apple. The rest are just pears.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> And then there are these:
> 
> https://www.westernelectric.com/300b
> A matched Pair for $1499



Thanks to gibosi.... He has just save me some money. These are real right? Matched pair of WE300b at $1500. Seems too good to be true.


----------



## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> That would be hilarious. I think burglars need to go for a course to find out what's valuable. Picking up GE instead of GEC would be a stigma on burglar reputation in the dark world.


That reminds me of the light bulbs in the NYC subway cars in the late 50s-early 60s: they went in the sockets counter-clockwise to deter theft for use at home or wherever...


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Thanks to gibosi.... He has just save me some money. These are real right? Matched pair of WE300b at $1500. Seems too good to be true.


Did they deliver any yet? Are there any reviews/comparisons with the old NOS tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Did they deliver any yet? Are there any reviews/comparisons with the old NOS tubes?


I haven't got a clue. Price is great though. Look at a pair of Takatsuki 300b tubes selling at one of our brick and mortar shop down under. AUD$4299 !!! https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/takatsuki-ta-300b-reference-vacuum-tubes-1-pair


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> You should keep them. For when you get another 6AS7/6080 amp.


I still have a 6as7/6080 amp. I have the Wa22 which is now kept as a reserve.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Did they deliver any yet? Are there any reviews/comparisons with the old NOS tubes?



I haven't seen any reviews, but these are the same folks who released the previous reissues, so I would suspect that they are equivalent. But again, it's not clear if they have even shipped anything yet. However, if someone is serious about 300B it might pay to keep an eye on these.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I haven't seen any reviews, but these are the same folks who released the previous reissues, so I would suspect that they are equivalent. But again, it's not clear if they have even shipped anything yet. However, if someone is serious about 300B it might pay to keep an eye on these.


Reminds me of a funny quote I just saw: _*Horse sense is the sense a horse has not to bet on people.*_


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> I haven't seen any reviews, but these are the same folks who released the previous reissues, so I would suspect that they are equivalent. But again, it's not clear if they have even shipped anything yet. However, if someone is serious about 300B it might pay to keep an eye on these.


They are shipping. Slowly:
https://forum.headphones.com/t/western-electric-300b-new-production/11592/5

And I agree with what the guy above says about the Tak 300B's. Combined with the Glenn 300B headphone amp you'll get one of the most neutral sounding headphone amps out there (which is what @2359glenn always intended with the 300B amp).


----------



## Monsterzero

bcowen said:


> Or said another way, a $15 Svetlana relabeled as a GEC?


Yup. Not sure if theyre worse than Shaefer beer though.... 


UntilThen said:


> Genalex Gold Lion current production tubes


The GL EL34s sound great in my DAC.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> The GL EL34s sound great in my DAC.


I've a couple of Gold Lion. KT88, KT77, 12AU7 and now the 300b. I've NOS Philips Miniwatt 6CA7 which is a EL34 and also RFT EL34. Will be purchasing the Tung Sol 6550 1960s next... would be interesting to hear the differences between KT88 and 6550. They are close cousins.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> And then there are these:
> 
> https://www.westernelectric.com/300b
> A matched Pair for $1499


My guess is that these may very well be the best deal for 300B tubes as far as sound and price ....and that is tough to say as the price tag is still way up there, but if you are dealing with 300B tubes this is just part of it.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

Tonight some more newly arrived 6C4/CV133 are in, from the Hivac factory 1953. These little guys are anything but little in sound- this family of tubes consistently has one of the largest soundstages out of any driver I've heard. I didn't think the HD800 stage could get any wider! Beautiful vocals, warm treble and plentiful bass- highly enjoyable tubes


----------



## Velozity

tintinsnowydog said:


> Tonight some more newly arrived 6C4/CV133 are in, from the Hivac factory 1953. These little guys are anything but little in sound- this family of tubes consistently has one of the largest soundstages out of any driver I've heard. I didn't think the HD800 stage could get any wider! Beautiful vocals, warm treble and plentiful bass- highly enjoyable tubes




For a while now I've been trying to extol the virtues of the 6C4, especially on the GOTL.  Just haven't been successful generating much excitement yet, lol.  Maybe you can use your exemplary prose in describing audiophilia in layman's terms to do just that!


----------



## Monsterzero

Velozity said:


> For a while now I've been trying to extol the virtues of the 6C4, especially on the GOTL.  Just haven't been successful generating much excitement yet, lol.  Maybe you can use your exemplary prose in describing audiophilia in layman's terms to do just that!


interesting. How do they compare in SQ to their SN7 and J5 counterparts?


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> interesting. How do they compare in SQ to their SN7 and J5 counterparts?


I have the same question - a little bit allergic to buying more adapters lol...The 6C5/6J5 tubes sound great!


----------



## triod750

mordy said:


> I have the same question - a little bit allergic to buying more adapters lol...The 6C5/6J5 tubes sound great!


You know deep inside that you need, or crave, a lot more adapters. You just have to accept the fact! The sooner the better.


----------



## mordy

Do you think that $114 is reasonable for this TFK 6080 tube?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/26491210...5&toolid=10001&customid=knt5ut6p1201zlp100004




It also has the following markings:



All right - I'll answer the question - the tube below is the same and can be yours for $8.90 or less.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Do you think that $114 is reasonable for this TFK 6080 tube?
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/26491210...5&toolid=10001&customid=knt5ut6p1201zlp100004
> 
> It also has the following markings:
> ...


But the first tube has "Telefunken" printed on it! How can it be a GE?!


----------



## mordy (Apr 22, 2021)

Zachik said:


> But the first tube has "Telefunken" printed on it! How can it be a GE?!


Them sandblasted dots are hard to remove...
Caveat emptor - Buyer Beware!


----------



## Xcalibur255

The Dots of Doom.......


----------



## Zachik

...still waiting for @bcowen to add his wisdom here!


----------



## Galapac

I’m glad GE sandblasted those on....sure fire way to tell a fake.
The other sign is the date code is all wrong.
I don’t think 6AS7W is on the original either.
plate structure, too many points on the spacers, etc.


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> ...still waiting for @bcowen to add his wisdom here!


All I can offer is that BangyBang apparently has a UK site now.  Very sad.


----------



## mordy

Galapac said:


> I’m glad GE sandblasted those on....sure fire way to tell a fake.
> The other sign is the date code is all wrong.
> I don’t think 6AS7W is on the original either.
> plate structure, too many points on the spacers, etc.


The date code should have begun with a letter followed by 7 digits. The letter stands for the factory, but since they were not made by TFK scrap that. Then only the first five digits of the seven are needed for the date and we have five: 20121
It would translate into Nov 2, 1962 which seems plausible. (Or 1972?)
Don't have the head for deciphering the GE dots ATM.
link to TFK date codes:
http://www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> The date code should have begun with a letter followed by 7 digits. The letter stands for the factory, but since they were not made by TFK scrap that. Then only the first five digits of the seven are needed for the date and we have five: 20121
> It would translate into Nov 2, 1962 which seems plausible. (Or 1972?)
> Don't have the head for deciphering the GE dots ATM.
> link to TFK date codes:
> http://www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm



For those who would like to become GE sand-blasted dot date code experts:

https://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=230932


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> For those who would like to become GE sand-blasted dot date code experts:
> 
> https://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=230932


@bcowen - be ready for a quiz tomorrow at 9am!


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> @bcowen - be ready for a quiz tomorrow at 9am!


LOL!  If there are etched dots, there's no need to figure them out since that's proof positive they were made by GE.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> All I can offer is that BangyBang apparently has a UK site now.  Very sad.


Also diversified into autos:  Chitty Chitty Bangy Bang. (If you thought tube prices were rarified...)


----------



## Galapac




----------



## L0rdGwyn

Glad to hear @2359glenn is doing better and making amplifiers again.  Hopefully we will see him back in action soon, and perhaps a return to normality for everyone in the not-to-distant future.


----------



## Celty

L0rdGwyn said:


> Glad to hear @2359glenn is doing better and making amplifiers again.  Hopefully we will see him back in action soon, and perhaps a return to normality for everyone in the not-to-distant future.


Ohh, I missed that news! Details?


----------



## gibosi

Celty said:


> Ohh, I missed that news! Details?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2580#post-16300598


----------



## Celty

gibosi said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2580#post-16300598


Fantastic. Thanks much.


----------



## Smallpie

Sadly I need to come up with some cash and thought I’d reach here first. Anybody interested in a NOS pair of Bendix 6080WB’s? Send me a message if interested. I have a couple pairs but only want to sell one pair.


----------



## Monsterzero

For anyone with an adapter that allows the use of a 4 volt rectifier in their GOTL,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3527821134...5&toolid=10001&customid=knz2omlswn01zlp100004

I bounced this off of our resident rectifier guru, @gibosi , who swapped out a Telefunken ($$$) and rolled in this tube, proclaimed it to be a "poor mans Telefunken". Spacious airy and a bit of extra energy in the treble area, I figured at this price it was worth the plunge to pair it up with some warmer, bassier tubes for my ZMFs.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> For anyone with an adapter that allows the use of a 4 volt rectifier in their GOTL,
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/352782113448?_trkparms=aid=555023&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIMRVI&ao=1&asc=20190711100440&meid=43e693d72b944f47a102612a1258c226&pid=100752&rk=1&rkt=24&mehot=pf&sd=324486653639&itm=352782113448&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=SimplAMLv5hPointwiseWebNoToraCoCoViewsNoHighIdfOrRoundRobinBlenderWithPromotedViewItems&brand=Tungsram&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338093425&toolid=10001&customid=knz2omlswn01zlp100004
> 
> I bounced this off of our resident rectifier guru, @gibosi , who swapped out a Telefunken ($$$) and rolled in this tube, proclaimed it to be a "poor mans Telefunken". Spacious airy and a bit of extra energy in the treble area, I figured at this price it was worth the plunge to pair it up with some warmer, bassier tubes for my ZMFs.


Yeah...with some warmer tubes this rectifier should sound nice.
Good price too for a NOS tube 40 years old.


----------



## gibosi

Here's an obscure tube that might be fun to try: Raytheon CK5755, which is a tweaked 12AT7 with a non-standard pinout, so another adapter! lol 

https://bms.isjtr.ro/sheets/138/5/5755.pdf

I know of one application, an analog computer built by Western Electric, used to guide the Nike-Ajax missile:

http://www.ed-thelen.org/computer.html

But I have absolutely no idea how it might sound. Anyone feeling adventurous?


----------



## gibosi

Oh, it turns out that at one time, someone was selling rebased 5755 tubes as “12AX7 Overlords” for outrageous prices. Search for “12AX7 Overlord” and enjoy.


----------



## mordy

Is there someone who can explain what GT/G means in a tube designation (as opposed to G or GT)?
I may have an answer but not sure if it is correct and that's why I am asking.


----------



## mordy

So there I am, happily listening when there is a sudden medium loud pop - and the left channel goes dead!
Don't panic - the amp should be OK, probably a tube went? The driver tubes are metal and both feel warm; the power tubes both light up.
Must be one of the RCA 6J5 metal tubes - switched out the left one for another one - same problem; L channel is dead. Could it be that the amp broke? Perish the thought!
Wait, maybe the Chatham 6AS7G power tubes. Switched them around - yep; the right channel is dead now! But both power tubes light up - how can it be? Actually I originally had three Chathams, but one rolled off my desk when I took a picture of it with, disastrous results. No replacment available ATM. I miss the sound...

OK,  let's put in the Bendix 6080WB tubes.
Phew! -all is back to normal, both channels working. Shouldn't have doubted the GOTL which is built like a tank.
Actually, although both Chathams light up, but one of them (L) is not as hot as the other one. 
How can it be that the tube dies in action (DIA) and still lights up?

Just checked eBay - only one Chatham 6AS7G available for $200 - forget it. 

Oh well, have to try to hunt down one at a reasonable price...


----------



## Velozity

mordy said:


> So there I am, happily listening when there is a sudden medium loud pop - and the left channel goes dead!
> Don't panic - the amp should be OK, probably a tube went? The driver tubes are metal and both feel warm; the power tubes both light up.
> Must be one of the RCA 6J5 metal tubes - switched out the left one for another one - same problem; L channel is dead. Could it be that the amp broke? Perish the thought!
> Wait, maybe the Chatham 6AS7G power tubes. Switched them around - yep; the right channel is dead now! But both power tubes light up - how can it be? Actually I originally had three Chathams, but one rolled off my desk when I took a picture of it with, disastrous results. No replacment available ATM. I miss the sound...
> ...




Hey Mordy, I think this is a Chatham moonlighting as a GE.  Internal construction matches perfectly from what I can tell.  Worth a shot for $25 I think.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144023393395?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## whirlwind

Velozity said:


> Hey Mordy, I think this is a Chatham moonlighting as a GE.  Internal construction matches perfectly from what I can tell.  Worth a shot for $25 I think.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/144023393395?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


I think so too as I see the copper rods.
Unreal that the Chatham prices have jumped this much...these used to be very affordable tubes.
Still have mine in my amp paired with Brimar 13D1.


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> So there I am, happily listening when there is a sudden medium loud pop - and the left channel goes dead!
> Don't panic - the amp should be OK, probably a tube went? The driver tubes are metal and both feel warm; the power tubes both light up.
> Must be one of the RCA 6J5 metal tubes - switched out the left one for another one - same problem; L channel is dead. Could it be that the amp broke? Perish the thought!
> Wait, maybe the Chatham 6AS7G power tubes. Switched them around - yep; the right channel is dead now! But both power tubes light up - how can it be? Actually I originally had three Chathams, but one rolled off my desk when I took a picture of it with, disastrous results. No replacment available ATM. I miss the sound...
> ...


Have you tried resoldering the pins?  Could easily be that.  The filament wiring inside the pins is still making good electrical contact allowing the tube to light up as normal, but if the pin connection to the plate or cathode in one of the triodes has been compromised....no sound in that channel.


----------



## mordy

bcowen said:


> Have you tried resoldering the pins?  Could easily be that.  The filament wiring inside the pins is still making good electrical contact allowing the tube to light up as normal, but if the pin connection to the plate or cathode in one of the triodes has been compromised....no sound in that channel.


Thanks - did not think of that; will give it a try.

_*Old Russian saying: Here we do not use what we need; here we use what we have.*_
Since I do not have a spare Chatham 6AS7G I reminded myself that I have a single Tung Sol 6AS7G. This tube was bought from a Canadian seller - at least the red print is the same color as the GE 6AS7G tube mentioned above.The construction is somewhat different with what looks like two getters: a top getter and a side getter, whereas the Chatham only has a side getter. The Chathams have copper rods (which i think always is a good sign) and the TS silver color rods. The TS is a little larger than the Chatham. The Chatham micas are black, the TS silver. I think the Chathams are from 1958 and the TS is from 1965.




First impression is that they sound a little different but good enough for now.
Tried to find information on Chatham tubes but could not find anything - only that Tung Sol bought the company, but no timelines.


----------



## mordy

Velozity said:


> Hey Mordy, I think this is a Chatham moonlighting as a GE.  Internal construction matches perfectly from what I can tell.  Worth a shot for $25 I think.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/144023393395?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


Thanks for the tip! Will look into it.


----------



## mordy (May 2, 2021)

bcowen said:


> Have you tried resoldering the pins?  Could easily be that.  The filament wiring inside the pins is still making good electrical contact allowing the tube to light up as normal, but if the pin connection to the plate or cathode in one of the triodes has been compromised....no sound in that channel.


Tried reheating the pins - tube did not respond to treatment. Tried whacking it but no response to shock treatment. Another pretty tube decoration...
The only thing I can see is a thickening on one spot of one of the filament heating rods.


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> Tried reheating the pins - tube did not respond to treatment. Tried whacking it but no response to shock treatment. Another pretty tube decoration...
> The only thing I can see is a thickening on one spot of one of the filament heating rods.


Bummer.  Such nice tubes...one of my favorites.


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> Tried reheating the pins - tube did not respond to treatment. Tried whacking it but no response to shock treatment. Another pretty tube decoration...
> The only thing I can see is a thickening on one spot of one of the filament heating rods.



I've never bought from this vendor, and it may be one of those "too good to be true" situations, but....you never know.  Might be worth an email to check it out.  

https://vacuumtubes.net/prices.htm


----------



## mordy

bcowen said:


> I've never bought from this vendor, and it may be one of those "too good to be true" situations, but....you never know.  Might be worth an email to check it out.
> 
> https://vacuumtubes.net/prices.htm


Thanks - you are probably right about your premonition. Look at post #1085:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-73

_I really don't like vacuumtubes.net at all.  They push off crap as "tested and certified" more often than I can to experience ever again.  They'll never get another dollar from me._


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Thanks - you are probably right about your premonition. Look at post #1085:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-73
> 
> _I really don't like vacuumtubes.net at all.  They push off crap as "tested and certified" more often than I can to experience ever again.  They'll never get another dollar from me._


Also unlikely to be in stock. Often a bait and switch, but doesn't hurt to ask I guess.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It could be a heater to cathode short.  This seems to be the most common way for these voltage regulator tubes to go, and is the culprit behind the string of blown up headphones from 5998 tubes too.  Sometimes the tube is still functional but you'll get this pop every time it comes on bias which is of course no good.  That was the case with mine.  After it stuffed the left channel driver through its grill slats on my K701s I plugged in a different pair of headphones to find the amp still made music in both channels.

If your headphones are ok then I think you got pretty lucky.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> It could be a heater to cathode short.  This seems to be the most common way for these voltage regulator tubes to go, and is the culprit behind the string of blown up headphones from 5998 tubes too.  Sometimes the tube is still functional but you'll get this pop every time it comes on bias which is of course no good.  That was the case with mine.  After it stuffed the left channel driver through its grill slats on my K701s I plugged in a different pair of headphones to find the amp still made music in both channels.
> 
> If your headphones are ok then I think you got pretty lucky.


I was lucky but I was listening via speakers. The pop was not super loud which may have been a mitigating factor as well.
I once had a tube headphone amp used as a preamp and plugged into the equalizer circuit of a receiver and blew out a circuit board in the receiver - twice. Until I figured out that the tube amp manufcturer warned against such a connection...
And I blew a driver in a Beyerdynamic T1 from a faulty TS 12SN7 BGRP.
I guess that all avid tube rollers experience these things sooner or later....

_" I am drawn to tube amplifiers because of the inconvenience, unpredictability and expense."_


----------



## mordy (May 5, 2021)

For the artistic steampunk people out there a collection of 18 non-usable industrial sculpture tubes:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284280388973?hash=item42306e7d6d:g:DVUAAOSwNxteq3Fo






Not sure if the rolls of toilet paper are included....but I agree with industrial sculpture.


----------



## Xcalibur255

There are some extremely desirable DHTs in that photo.  Such a pity they're display only pieces now, though I certainly hope the seller is sure of that.  Some of these tubes will test low and still make beautiful music in an amp for years in that condition.

Quite a few of these look like 45s or one of its cousins with similar size and shape plate.  Always wanted a pair of those Eveready Raytheons.........

I get the feeling the toilet paper was to place the tubes in which didn't pan out because they probably sunk further into the roll than desired.  As for why they are still in the photos in spite of that....... is certainly a choice.


----------



## mordy

Does anybody have any experience with a 9pin tube said to be similar to the C3g - the D3a:


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's popular in the DIYaudio community and considered an excellent driver for some DHTs such as the 300B.  No personal experience to speak of though.


----------



## dminches

A lot of those DHTs look like RCA/Cunningham 112A, 01As, etc.  Those are really nice tubes and are very cheap.  I use them in my DAC.


----------



## hodgjy

mordy said:


> _I really don't like vacuumtubes.net at all.  They push off crap as "tested and certified" more often than I can to experience ever again.  They'll never get another dollar from me._



I can confirm. They sold me some real garbage in the past and gave me terrible grief when I tried returning the questionable tubes. They'll never get another dollar from me. I can also confirm that their inventory list is not accurate and they get super upset when you ask them to actually confirm their stock before ordering.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (May 7, 2021)

IMO when it comes to tube sellers you have to consider how their business is oriented.  vacuumtubes.net is and wants to be a wholeseller.  They don't really want to cater to audiophiles and their specific needs/concerns, although clearly they dabble in it a bit because there's money to be made.  Then you have places like Brent Jesse who will take the time to honor specific requests and do detailed testing including curve tracing to make sure the tubes are what you expect.  The difference is reflected in the pricing.  The wholesellers have lower prices because aren't adding service on top of things, they just pick a box and ship it out the door.  They're naturally annoyed when asked to do extra things because that's not really how they have their business setup to operate.  Spending time on special requests means they sometimes don't make money on that sale at the wholesale prices they use.

I'm not defending anybody here at all, just musing a bit on why we tend to see two clearly different pricing structures in the world of tube resale. 

Then there's eBay which kind of exists in both worlds at the same time......


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> IMO when it comes to tube sellers you have to consider how their business is oriented.  vacuumtubes.net is and wants to be a wholeseller.  They don't really want to cater to audiophiles and their specific needs/concerns, although clearly they dabble in it a bit because there's money to be made.  Then you have places like Brent Jesse who will take the time to honor specific requests and do detailed testing including curve tracing to make sure the tubes are what you expect.  The difference is reflected in the pricing.  The wholesellers have lower prices because aren't adding service on top of things, they just pick a box and ship it out the door.  They're naturally annoyed when asked to do extra things because that's not really how they have their business setup to operate.  Spending time on special requests means they sometimes don't make money on that sale at the wholesale prices they use.
> 
> I'm not defending anybody here at all, just musing a bit on why we tend to see two clearly different pricing structures in the world of tube resale.
> 
> Then there's eBay which kind of exists in both worlds at the same time......


I have noticed that wholesalers that sell on eBay have higher prices than buying from them directly (more than the eBay fees).
In addition to wholesalers and tube sellers that cater to individuals you have my favorite sellers: regular people who for some reason have tubes to sell. Sometimes somebody is selling off their grandfather's radio repair shop or a box of tubes from a garage sale etc etc. 
This is where you can find the real bargains - a pair of BGRP TS 6SN7 for $14.99, or a WE 421A for $9.99...
I actually saw these but was out too late.
If you arm yourself with knowledge about rebrand names or tube construction details you can pick up bargains by looking for rebranded tubes or tubes without a brand listed on them.


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> WE 421A for $9.99


----------



## mordy (May 7, 2021)

Monsterzero said:


>





Monsterzero said:


>


Must be a doctor selling this one:




The seller did not want to open up the factory sealed box.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/333955932905?hash=item4dc15322e9:g:thQAAOSwJz5gc5sP
Must admit that I have never seen this before....
Here is the patient on the X-ray table:


----------



## Velozity

mordy said:


> Must be a doctor selling this one:
> 
> The seller did not want to open up the factory sealed box.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/333955932905?hash=item4dc15322e9:g:thQAAOSwJz5gc5sP
> ...





Ok, I'm sorry but that almost deserves to be bought just to reward the guy for the awesome picture.  That's too freaking cool.  I would literally pay to have X-ray negatives made of my favorite tubes.  Perfect artwork for the listening area.  Imagine framing it and backlighting...


----------



## mordy

Velozity said:


> Ok, I'm sorry but that almost deserves to be bought just to reward the guy for the awesome picture.  That's too freaking cool.  I would literally pay to have X-ray negatives made of my favorite tubes.  Perfect artwork for the listening area.  Imagine framing it and backlighting...


Maybe overlay the X-ray with the tube glow?


----------



## whirlwind (May 7, 2021)

mordy said:


> Must be a doctor selling this one:
> 
> The seller did not want to open up the factory sealed box.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/333955932905?hash=item4dc15322e9:g:thQAAOSwJz5gc5sP
> ...


Whats not to like about double rectangle getter's      

Is that paper wrapping around the tube.


----------



## mordy (May 7, 2021)

Apparently it is not so simple to take an X-ray picture of a tube:
https://blog.thetubestore.com/getting-closer-look-x-rays-vacuum-tubes/

_ "few people who know how hard it is to get a crisp x-ray of a vacuum tube. For starters, the object has very little mass to absorb the radiation. And because the edges of the tube curve away from the film, the x-rays get scattered about, causing distortion. So Veasey shot this tube in a series of 10-second bursts. The succession of blasts builds up the energy necessary to capture the fine details, while their short duration keeps background radiation from clouding the picture.”_


----------



## whirlwind

Velozity said:


> Ok, I'm sorry but that almost deserves to be bought just to reward the guy for the awesome picture.  That's too freaking cool.  I would literally pay to have X-ray negatives made of my favorite tubes.  Perfect artwork for the listening area.  Imagine framing it and backlighting...



Yeah...would be awesome pics for a listening room!


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Apparently it is not so simple to take an X-ray picture of a tube:
> https://blog.thetubestore.com/getting-closer-look-x-rays-vacuum-tubes/
> 
> _ "few people who know how hard it is to get a crisp x-ray of a vacuum tube. For starters, the object has very little mass to absorb the radiation. And because the edges of the tube curve away from the film, the x-rays get scattered about, causing distortion. So Veasey shot this tube in a series of 10-second bursts. The succession of blasts builds up the energy necessary to capture the fine details, while their short duration keeps background radiation from clouding the picture.”_


Come to think of it, we need an MRI image.


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> Come to think of it, we need an MRI image.


LOL!

Wouldn't it suck to open up the box and find the getter flash was all powdery white?  X-Ray won't show that, maybe an MRI would?


----------



## whirlwind

I have not bought any tubes for months now...I have been able to let the urge pass and I have saved some cash.

I had a small relapse last week, but nothing drastic.  I have wanted to add this to my rectifier collection for some time, just because I seem to really like Mullard tubes in general.







,


----------



## jonathan c

whirlwind said:


> I have not bought any tubes for months now...I have been able to let the urge pass and I have saved some cash.
> 
> I had a small relapse last week, but nothing drastic.  I have wanted to add this to my rectifier collection for some time, just because I seem to really like Mullard tubes in general.


It looks new - no discolouration anywhere...!


----------



## tintinsnowydog

Some fun with power tubes the last few days: this pair of Chathams arrived recently as part of a bulk lot mixed in with very similar looking RCA 6AS7s. There were meant to be 3 of them, but unfortunately one broke in transit  The left tube is a bit funky looking on an angle! Early impressions are very good- I find them a little more different than the 5998 than I was expecting in terms of overall weight and slam. The warmth and airy treble presentation is definitely still there though! 





Given the recent talk about reviving tubes, and my own attempts with a few very beat up GEC 6080s, I remembered this pair of A1834 tubes I had bought a while ago untested and stashed away when they didn't light up. Even the seller himself had put a big X sticker on one of the tubes to indicate its heaters were dead. With some sandpaper and pulling it in and out of a socket saver a dozen times, I got heater continuity again! Running them on the tester, they are showing pretty close to reject, but in the amp tonight, they are still making beautiful music- not to mention the brilliant GEC glow  Absolutely magical midrange tone and stellar bass response, paired with some Hivac 6C4 tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

jonathan c said:


> It looks new - no discolouration anywhere...!


One thing that's a bit of a bummer about finding these new is that they don't look that way for long if you use them.  These particular tubes get a smokey look on their glass quite fast.


----------



## leftside

I've had the Abyss headphones for a week now. I've never had a set of headphones with so many different possible adjustments, but after watching some very good YouTube videos I think I've found the sweet spot for my listening. Amazing how you can adjust the bass, soundstage, position of vocals, etc by small adjustment to the headphones. Anyway, I usually go mountain biking on a Wednesday evening, but after finding my "sweet spot" adjustment wise I ended up listening with the Glenn 300B until midnight...

Not sure how many 300B owners still follow the thread, but this SET 300B amp is a great match for these low impedance 47 ohms and low sensitivity 88 dB/mW planars. Thanks again @2359glenn


----------



## whirlwind (May 14, 2021)

leftside said:


> I've had the Abyss headphones for a week now. I've never had a set of headphones with so many different possible adjustments, but after watching some very good YouTube videos I think I've found the sweet spot for my listening. Amazing how you can adjust the bass, soundstage, position of vocals, etc by small adjustment to the headphones. Anyway, I usually go mountain biking on a Wednesday evening, but after finding my "sweet spot" adjustment wise I ended up listening with the Glenn 300B until midnight...
> 
> Not sure how many 300B owners still follow the thread, but this SET 300B amp is a great match for these low impedance 47 ohms and low sensitivity 88 dB/mW planars. Thanks again @2359glenn



Very Nice!! Enjoy the good life   

Beautiful amp..it is cool to see those expensive 300B tubes and just beside them those $5 damper diodes.
I love they lay-out of this amp.
SET amps do indeed go very well with low sensitivity planars.

Enjoy that set-up...that is killer.


----------



## dminches

leftside said:


> I've had the Abyss headphones for a week now. I've never had a set of headphones with so many different possible adjustments, but after watching some very good YouTube videos I think I've found the sweet spot for my listening. Amazing how you can adjust the bass, soundstage, position of vocals, etc by small adjustment to the headphones. Anyway, I usually go mountain biking on a Wednesday evening, but after finding my "sweet spot" adjustment wise I ended up listening with the Glenn 300B until midnight...
> 
> Not sure how many 300B owners still follow the thread, but this SET 300B amp is a great match for these low impedance 47 ohms and low sensitivity 88 dB/mW planars. Thanks again @2359glenn



I still follow the thread but I haven’t had my 300B for over 18 months now.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Does anybody have any experience with a 9pin tube said to be similar to the C3g - the D3a:



mordy - the D3a is a high gm pentode.  When triode strapped it makes for a very interesting driver, as it is high gain with a mu of 70, and low plate resistance, 1.9K, due to its high transconductance.

As such it is a popular driver tube for a two-stage 300B design - the low plate resistance means the highish input capacitance of the 300B will not adversely affect the frequency response.  There is a low pass RC filter formed by the plate resistance of the driver and the input capacitance of the output tube, the low plate resistance of the driver ensures the high-frequency rolloff occurs far outside the audio band, >20kHz.  The high gain of the D3a also allows it to swing enough voltage into the 300B to drive it to full output.

The tube is also very linear, which means low distortion.




BUT, in the GOTL, I don't think it is a good match.  The reason being the gain is so high, just barely turning up the volume knob will bring the amp to very high volumes.  The GOTL is designed for the 6SN7 which has 28% of the gain of the D3a.  Also, the D3a runs at high plate currents, 15-20mA, it will be at a very poor operating point in the GOTL.  The C3g, by comparison, operates at somewhat similar places to the 6SN7, so works with the 22K plate resistor in the amp.

I use these tubes in my phono stage.  This family of tubes, high-gm pentodes that make linear triodes, are very useful in audio design due to their high gain, low plate resistance, and linearity.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> mordy - the D3a is a high gm pentode.  When triode strapped it makes for a very interesting driver, as it is high gain with a mu of 70, and low plate resistance, 1.9K, due to its high transconductance.
> 
> As such it is a popular driver tube for a two-stage 300B design - the low plate resistance means the highish input capacitance of the 300B will not adversely affect the frequency response.  There is a low pass RC filter formed by the plate resistance of the driver and the input capacitance of the output tube, the low plate resistance of the driver ensures the high-frequency rolloff occurs far outside the audio band, >20kHz.  The high gain of the D3a also allows it to swing enough voltage into the 300B to drive it to full output.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification - finally a tube that does not work in the GOTL lol.


----------



## Smallpie

mordy said:


> Thanks for the clarification - finally a tube that does not work in the GOTL lol.


I notice that the 5u4g is only compatible with some power tubes in the gotl but then why is that not the case with the 422a,U52,53ku,etc. I thought they were all very similar to 5u4g but does not have the same limitations of power tubes? Can someone explain this in detail please?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Thanks for the clarification - finally a tube that does not work in the GOTL lol.



It will make sound, but like I said, bad operating point.  In a simulation, it will run around 150V on the plate at 2mA bias.



The load line will look like below (blue) with the bias point in green, right in the knee of the curves with very little headroom before running into cutoff.



Say you use it as a driver with an active load like a CCS at an optimal bias point, the load line might look like this (just an example, I did not calculate this load line).



Now it can swing high voltages symmetrically at low distortion.



Akiravelvet said:


> I notice that the 5u4g is only compatible with some power tubes in the gotl but then why is that not the case with the 422a,U52,53ku,etc. I thought they were all very similar to 5u4g but does not have the same limitations of power tubes? Can someone explain this in detail please?



A U52 is a 5U4G.  Where is the compatibility issue coming up?


----------



## gibosi

Akiravelvet said:


> I notice that the 5u4g is only compatible with some power tubes in the gotl but then why is that not the case with the 422a,U52,53ku,etc. I thought they were all very similar to 5u4g but does not have the same limitations of power tubes? Can someone explain this in detail please?



The 5u4g can provide at most 225mA, and if you are running 6AS7G-type output tubes, that rectifier will be maxed out. There is no extra headroom, or no wiggle room, so to speak. And the rectifier will likely not last long. And yes, the other rectifiers you reference are similar to the 5u4g, but all of them can provide at least 250mA. And that extra 25mA or more is what makes the difference.

So if you have your heart set on rolling in a certain 5u4g, you can use it with six 6bx7 / 6bl7, as 225mA is more than adequate with these output tubes. Or you can roll in a 5u4g*b. *The 5u4g*b* can provide 275ma and it is fine with 6AS7G-type output tubes.


----------



## Based Gamer

Hey guys I wanted to know for a Glenn OTL I'm looking to have one built soon. What tubes would you guys recommend generally? I'm a fan of the 6SN7 in my darkvoice and quite like the KT88 and EL34 for the power tubes. Any input would be appreciated for tube combos??


----------



## UntilThen

Based Gamer said:


> Hey guys I wanted to know for a Glenn OTL I'm looking to have one built soon. What tubes would you guys recommend generally? I'm a fan of the 6SN7 in my darkvoice and quite like the KT88 and EL34 for the power tubes. Any input would be appreciated for tube combos??



What Glenn OTL amp are you getting? There are generally 2 different versions. A basic OTL amp that use a tube rectifier, a 6sn7 and a pair of 6as7 or 6080 power tubes. A tube rollers dream GOTL that has a 6sn7 as driver, a pair of c3g as drivers and 6 x 6bx7 / 6bl7 or 2 / 4 6as7 / 6080 or 2 x 6336b power tubes.

Also curious when you say that in your darkvoice you like KT88 and EL34 power tubes - what darkvoice is that?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 20, 2021)

@Based Gamer sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but unless you have been in contact with Glenn and he said he is building it right now, odds of you getting an amplifier any time soon are slim.  Glenn has been off Head-Fi for some time due to personal obligations, there is hope he will return to Head-Fi soon, but even so there are many people waiting in line for his amplifiers.  Your best bet is to try and find one on the used market, but demand is high.

Also, the Glenn OTL is a SRPP amplifier, the output tubes need to be dual triodes, so EL34 and KT88 are not options unless you get a SET design, or Glenn redesigns and makes a SRPP build using pentodes.


----------



## Based Gamer

UntilThen said:


> What Glenn OTL amp are you getting? There are generally 2 different versions. A basic OTL amp that use a tube rectifier, a 6sn7 and a pair of 6as7 or 6080 power tubes. A tube rollers dream GOTL that has a 6sn7 as driver, a pair of c3g as drivers and 6 x 6bx7 / 6bl7 or 2 / 4 6as7 / 6080 or 2 x 6336b power tubes.
> 
> Also curious when you say that in your darkvoice you like KT88 and EL34 power tubes - what darkvoice is that?


Awesome I've been looking for a breakdown like this. I'd definitely get the GOTL. I imagine the G stands for godlike cause that sounds amazing. I'm still relatively new to tubes though I've been an enthusiast of tubes the moment I've had my darkvoice I've almost not used anything else but my darkvoice. Its slightly modded with the humm fitz mod. But thats it, I just liked the idea of havings KT88's they're thicc. @L0rdGwyn Thank you for the rundown of the situation, I've shot him a DM but from what it sounds like it may be a while hope @2359glenn gets better and I can get inline for that GOTL. Thank you for the breakdown and helping me understand the difference between designs. Still kinda new to this but I've been advidly trying to learn more. I wonder if theres anyone making an amp like the GOTL out there otherwise I'm interested in the Balanced Tor rodger.


----------



## UntilThen

G stands for Glenn and not godlike   

Talk to @L0rdGwyn. He can make you a similar OTL amp but question is if he wants to.


----------



## Based Gamer

UntilThen said:


> G stands for Glenn and not godlike
> 
> Talk to @L0rdGwyn. He can make you a similar OTL amp but question is if he wants to.


😎 It may stand for glenn but it looks godlike. 

Well if @L0rdGwyn can make something like the GOTL I'd be down


----------



## chrisdrop

Based Gamer said:


> 😎 It may stand for glenn but it looks godlike.
> 
> Well if @L0rdGwyn can make something like the GOTL I'd be down


Given Glenn's current circumstances, you might check out the other 2 popular maker threads; 1101 Audio and UltraSonic Studios


----------



## Based Gamer

chrisdrop said:


> Given Glenn's current circumstances, you might check out the other 2 popular maker threads; 1101 Audio and UltraSonic Studios


Thank you so much for the recommendation 1101 audio amps looks nutts ❤️❤️❤️


----------



## UntilThen

How about somewhere closer to home? 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/eric-mcchanson-headphone-amp.718350/post-16353383

The 300b amp on the right is mine. Did not know why it took me so long to discover Eric, someone local and who has been building tube amps all his life. This 300b amp with my LCD4 is amazing.


----------



## Based Gamer

UntilThen said:


> How about somewhere closer to home?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/eric-mcchanson-headphone-amp.718350/post-16353383
> 
> The 300b amp on the right is mine. Did not know why it took me so long to discover Eric, someone local and who has been building tube amps all his life. This 300b amp with my LCD4 is amazing.


These look incredible. I'm kinda speechless, when you you say closer to home.. you mean Australian??

Also I wanna know 300B I see a lot of people hyping the tube. What exactly makes them special? I see they're not cheap in any way. The Destiny looks beautiful and looks like it would sound incredible, whats roughly the build time and $$ of one of them?


----------



## UntilThen

Based Gamer said:


> These look incredible. I'm kinda speechless, when you you say closer to home.. you mean Australian??
> 
> Also I wanna know 300B I see a lot of people hyping the tube. What exactly makes them special? I see they're not cheap in any way. The Destiny looks beautiful and looks like it would sound incredible, whats roughly the build time and $$ of one of them?



Take it to private pm. I've disrupted this thread enough already. When you find out the price, you will fall off your chair.


----------



## bcowen

Based Gamer said:


> These look incredible. I'm kinda speechless, when you you say closer to home.. you mean Australian??
> 
> Also I wanna know 300B I see a lot of people hyping the tube. What exactly makes them special? I see they're not cheap in any way. The Destiny looks beautiful and looks like it would sound incredible, whats roughly the build time and $$ of one of them?


The 300B is the godlike triode.


----------



## whirlwind (May 22, 2021)

I have been addicted to The Black Keys new album. Most of my listening has been to this new album the past week.
I have been rolling amps and headphones with this new album and it sounds great on all.
Listening with this combo this morning.
Pair of NOS 57 RCA / Pair of Fivre 6C5G no idea of year /ZMF VC











And here is this if you are into this kind of stuff.
This is an all Delta Blues cover record with songs by  some great Mississippi blues men. Junior Kimbrough, RL Burnside, John Lee Hooker and others.
Dan Auerbach's  fuzzy guitar sound is wonderful...some nice slide here also by Kenny Brown who joined in.
The keys have definitely went back to their roots here and it is wonderful!


----------



## UntilThen

Johnny Lee Hooker. You go Joe ! I very much dig blues too ... besides lots of other genres.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> I have been addicted to The Black Keys new album. Most of my listening has been to this new album the past week.
> I have been rolling amps and headphones with this new album and it sounds great on all.
> Listening with this combo this morning.
> Pair of NOS 57 RCA / Pair of Fivre 6C5G no idea of year /ZMF VC
> ...



Can't wait to listen. Thanks for sharing. I also really like the early Rolling Stones albums where they were very influenced by the blues and also did a few covers. Most of these albums were released on SACD by Abko, so you can get the DSD versions. Stunning.


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Can't wait to listen. Thanks for sharing. I also really like the early Rolling Stones albums where they were very influenced by the blues and also did a few covers. Most of these albums were released on SACD by Abko, so you can get the DSD versions. Stunning.



Speaking of the Stones:
I listened to "Goats Head Soup" last night.  When studied, some very competent musicianship, indeed, is heard.

And this album has this attribute on one song, that once heard, you can never "un-hear" again:

On The Song "Angie":
An unusual feature of the original recording is that singer Mick Jagger's vocal guide track (made before the final vocals were performed) is faintly audible throughout the song (an effect sometimes called a "ghost vocal").


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Can't wait to listen. Thanks for sharing. I also really like the early Rolling Stones albums where they were very influenced by the blues and also did a few covers. Most of these albums were released on SACD by Abko, so you can get the DSD versions. Stunning.



I have many early Stones albums, but all are flac...I may have to look into a couple of DSD versions....thanks


----------



## UntilThen

Surprisingly I don't have any Stones albums but I have 5 Led Zep LPs. Maybe it's time to get some Rolling Stones LPs.


----------



## Galapac

UntilThen said:


> Surprisingly I don't have any Stones albums but I have 5 Led Zep LPs. Maybe it's time to get some Rolling Stones LPs.


Which one would you get first? I would recommend Sticky Fingers, Let It Bleed, or Beggars Banquet for your first.


----------



## UntilThen (May 23, 2021)

Galapac said:


> Which one would you get first? I would recommend Sticky Fingers, Let It Bleed, or Beggars Banquet for your first.


I'll take your advice and look for those. 

Aww Sticky Fingers has Wild Horses and Brown Sugar... my fav.

Oh man Let it Bleed is good too...

Beggars Banquet is good too !!!


----------



## leftside (May 23, 2021)

Galapac said:


> Which one would you get first? I would recommend Sticky Fingers, Let It Bleed, or Beggars Banquet for your first.


Start with the first two "The Rolling Stones" and  "12 * 5" although I also like the albums you mentioned. Tough to find a bad album though really. The latest (and back on the blues theme) "Blue and Lonesome" is also good.


----------



## Monsterzero

Galapac said:


> Which one would you get first? I would recommend Sticky Fingers, Let It Bleed, or Beggars Banquet for your first.


They have too many good albums to list. My first back in the day was Hot Rocks 64-71. Its a great compilation for their older stuff.


----------



## leftside (May 23, 2021)

whirlwind said:


> I have been addicted to The Black Keys new album. Most of my listening has been to this new album the past week.
> I have been rolling amps and headphones with this new album and it sounds great on all.
> Listening with this combo this morning.
> Pair of NOS 57 RCA / Pair of Fivre 6C5G no idea of year /ZMF VC
> ...



MQA 48k version on Roon/Tidal if anyone uses that.

I noticed the following on the Roon album info:
"On this album they added guitarist Kenny Brown and bassist Eric Deaton, both longtime Burnside and Kimbrough associates".  Helps to explain the "authentic" sound.

And if anyone likes this album, also check out the original versions.


----------



## UntilThen (May 23, 2021)

leftside said:


> MQA 48k version on Roon/Tidal if anyone uses that.
> 
> I noticed the following on the Roon album info:
> "On this album they added guitarist Kenny Brown and bassist Eric Deaton, both longtime Burnside and Kimbrough associates".  Helps to explain the "authentic" sound.
> ...


Listening to it now on Roon/Tidal. Thanks for sharing. LCD4 is made for this.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I saw these guys in Denver Colorado this same year (2013) in a wonderful, acoustically perfect club called "The Soiled Dove Underground" that is shaped like a quarter note.  Everyone gets an unobstructed view, perfect sound and the _coldest_ beer  



Everybody was super smooth, made it all look "easy" we came away especially impressed with the bass player, who really made the house thump!


----------



## whirlwind (May 24, 2021)

leftside said:


> MQA 48k version on Roon/Tidal if anyone uses that.
> 
> I noticed the following on the Roon album info:
> "On this album they added guitarist Kenny Brown and bassist Eric Deaton, both longtime Burnside and Kimbrough associates".  Helps to explain the "authentic" sound.
> ...


Yeah and Kenny Brown plays some killer slide guitar!

Listening again this morning before work.

I would love to see them tour the album.


----------



## UntilThen

I dig some of the old blues / rock by Cream. Badge a collaboration between Eric Clapton and George Harrison is a classic.


----------



## bcowen

UntilThen said:


> I dig some of the old blues / rock by Cream. Badge a collaboration between Eric Clapton and George Harrison is a classic.


Ever listen to any Jimmy Thackery?  Dude can wail on a guitar.


----------



## jonathan c (May 24, 2021)

bcowen said:


> Ever listen to any Jimmy Thackery?  Dude can wail on a guitar.


Also, give a listen to early work of Roy Buchanan and to Rory Gallagher.


----------



## JazzVinyl

jonathan c said:


> Also, give a listen to early work of Roy Buchanan and to Rory Gallagher.



Longtime fan of Roy Buchanan.  His output is best appreciated via the orignal vinyl's.  The CD's did not get the production treatment they deserved.

"'I'm a ram" on this LP, is so palatable, it will make you sweat:


----------



## jonathan c (May 24, 2021)

I actually got to see Roy Buchanan recording in the studio for Takoma Records (Takoma Park MD). A good friend of mine was record reviewer / music columnist for the Washington Post back in the 70s...Vinyl is the way to hear his searing Telecaster...


----------



## JazzVinyl

jonathan c said:


> I actually got to see Roy Buchanan recording in the studio for Takoma Records (Takoma Park MD). A good friend of mine was record reviewer / music columnist for the Washington Post back in the 70s...Vinyl is the way to hear his searing Telecaster...


Bet that was quite an experience!


----------



## leftside

bcowen said:


> Ever listen to any Jimmy Thackery?  Dude can wail on a guitar.


That guy has quite the catalog!


----------



## whirlwind

Jimmy Thackery, Roy Buchanan, Rory Gallagher....all great choices.

This Rory Gallagher album has stayed in my rotation since it's release.
It is a compilation of 4 European shows from 1977.  Everything on this album is what made him so great to me.
Killer guitar and soulful voice...20 tracks...everything to like here if you dig this kind of stuff.


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Jimmy Thackery, Roy Buchanan, Rory Gallagher....all great choices.
> 
> This Rory Gallagher album has stayed in my rotation since it's release.
> It is a compilation of 4 European shows from 1977.  Everything on this album is what made him so great to me.
> Killer guitar and soulful voice...20 tracks...everything to like here if you dig this kind of stuff.



1977 was a great year for music!


----------



## jonathan c

JazzVinyl said:


> 1977 was a great year for music!


I think that Dexter Gordon had his Village Vanguard ‘homecoming’ visit then after being in Copenhagen for about fifteen years...


----------



## leftside (May 25, 2021)

JazzVinyl said:


> 1977 was a great year for music!


Yes. The world changed forever with Punk Rock and it spawned many new different forms of music like New Wave. I like the old music a lot (pre-77), but Punk Rock bought in a lot of exciting changes that the music scene needed and certainly made for an interesting time when growing up in the UK. I used to go to shows all the time during the mid 1980's - mid 1990's. Punk had moved on by then, but the influences were still there.


The band from above (The Damned) are still going! Tour regularly, and still release albums (although they sound a bit different these days). They have a big show with original lineup scheduled for end of this year I think.


----------



## bcowen

leftside said:


> That guy has quite the catalog!


My favorite disc of his is "Wild Night Out" (all live performances and decently recorded) which Tidal doesn't have for whatever reason.   Edwards Blues is on that disc, but every song on that album is great.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Also, give a listen to early work of Roy Buchanan and to Rory Gallagher.


I love Gallagher!


----------



## JazzVinyl

leftside said:


> Yes. The world changed forever with Punk Rock and it spawned many new different forms of music like New Wave. I like the old music a lot (pre-77), but Punk Rock bought in a lot of exciting changes that the music scene needed and certainly made for an interesting time when growing up in the UK. I used to go to shows all the time during the mid 1980's - mid 1990's. Punk had moved on by then, but the influences were still there.
> 
> The band from above (The Damned) are still going! Tour regularly, and still release albums (although they sound a bit different these days). They have a big show with original lineup scheduled for end of this year I think.



Interesting!  I was thinking 1977 to me, represented:

Aja - Steely Dan
Exodus - Bob Marley
The Stranger - Billy Joel
Animals - Pink Floyd
Running On Empty - Jackson Browne
Little Queen - Heart
CSN - Crosby, Stills & Nash
Little Criminals - Randy Newman
I Robot - Alan Parsons Project
Moonflower - Santana
George Thorogood and the Destroyers - George Thorogood and the Destroyers
Ra - Utopia (Todd Rundgren's Utopia)
Rumors - Fleetwood Mac
Rough Mix - Pete Townshend (with Ronnie Laine)
Hotel California - The Eagles

These, all in the rock vein among many other fine works.  
Many a fine Jazz and Blues LP was released that year as well.

We were three years from CeeDee's...still...!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

jonathan c said:


> I think that Dexter Gordon had his Village Vanguard ‘homecoming’ visit then after being in Copenhagen for about fifteen years...



I mixed sound for Dexter at a show in a little club in Poquoson, Virginia once, in the mid 80's.  Have a picture of he and I before the show, somewhere....

He was a very cool cat  
He had some outstanding younger sidemen, from the Windy City, as well.

.


----------



## jonathan c

JazzVinyl said:


> Interesting!  I was thinking 1977 to me, represented:
> 
> Aja - Steely Dan
> Exodus - Bob Marley
> ...


I thought Sony / Philips brought out the CD in 1982 (“perfect sound forever”...😒🤮 initially)


----------



## jonathan c

JazzVinyl said:


> I mixed sound for Dexter at a show in a little club in Poquoson, Virginia once, in the mid 80's.  Have a picture of he and I before the show, somewhere....
> 
> He was a very cool cat
> He had some outstanding younger sidemen, from the Windy City, as well.
> ...


Probably were: George Cables, piano; Rufus Reid, bass; Edward Gladden, drums.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> Interesting!  I was thinking 1977 to me, represented:
> 
> Aja - Steely Dan
> Exodus - Bob Marley
> ...


I like some of those  But, if you were growing up in the UK at the time it was punk rock for me and my friends, and then the bands that followed in the New Wave/Alternative scene. It's all good. World be a boring place if everyone liked the same type of music. Happy that I'm still discovering new music including some new (to me) blues artists. 

We must be a relatively small percentage of the population who doesn't listen to music mainly from a smartphone and cheap IEMs... and that's what matters the most - no matter your music taste.


----------



## jonathan c

leftside said:


> I like some of those  But, if you were growing up in the UK at the time it was punk rock for me and my friends, and then the bands that followed in the New Wave/Alternative scene. It's all good. World be a boring place if everyone liked the same type of music. Happy that I'm still discovering new music including some new (to me) blues artists.
> 
> We must be a relatively small percentage of the population who doesn't listen to music mainly from a smartphone and cheap IEMs... and that's what matters the most - no matter your music taste.


And I do not “access” music via streaming etc. Physical media (CD/vinyl) is more than fine...


----------



## Monsterzero

JazzVinyl said:


> Interesting!  I was thinking 1977 to me, represented:
> 
> Aja - Steely Dan
> Exodus - Bob Marley
> ...


I own ten of those albums, but you missed the biggest release from 1977...at least for me. This album changed my world!


----------



## whirlwind

I quite liked Eric Clapton's Slowhand and Cheap Tricks In Color albums...both from 1977


----------



## JazzVinyl

jonathan c said:


> And I do not “access” music via streaming etc. Physical media (CD/vinyl) is more than fine...



I don't either.  I tend to "study" music that I like.  Listen many times, very critically.  Always something new to discover.

The streaming services for me, are a distraction to serious listening.  So much is available that I tend to be very scattered, moving from one thing to another and not listening carefully...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> I own ten of those albums, but you missed the biggest release from 1977...at least for me. This album changed my world!



Yes, I missed the Ramones bandwagon....but some I did not mention were important to me:

Songs In The Key Of Life - Stevie Wonder
Wings Over America - Wings
Simple Dreams - Linda Ronstadt
Songs From The Wood - Jethro Tull
LIVE! - Jeff Beck with the Jan Hammer Group
American Stars In Bars - Neil Young
Show Some Emotion - Joan Armatrading
Don Juan's Reckless Daughter - Joni Mitchell

Guess we could go on and on....


----------



## leftside

jonathan c said:


> And I do not “access” music via streaming etc. Physical media (CD/vinyl) is more than fine...


The way I discover new music is through Roon with Tidal integration. Select a track, and once it has finished, Roon will start playing music outside your library that you might like. If you don't like the track, easy enough to click "next". And if I really like the music... I'll try and find the vinyl edition (or at least visit Bandcamp for the FLAC).  

I too never access music via streaming for dedicated listening. I guess the only difference between me and you for dedicated listening is I no longer have CDs, but I have the equivalent FLAC or DSD files - accessed through Roon of course. Roon then displays lyrics, information about the artist and album and related artists.


----------



## leftside

JazzVinyl said:


> I don't either. I tend to "study" music that I like. Listen many times, very critically. Always something new to discover.


One advantage of getting older is that you've probably also forgotten what particular passages sound like 



JazzVinyl said:


> The streaming services for me, are a distraction to serious listening. So much is available that I tend to be very scattered, moving from one thing to another and not listening carefully...



That can happen for sure! It's why I only stream when purposely going out to look for new music.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> The way I discover new music is through Roon with Tidal integration. Select a track, and once it has finished, Roon will start playing music outside your library that you might like. If you don't like the track, easy enough to click "next". And if I really like the music... I'll try and find the vinyl edition (or at least visit Bandcamp for the FLAC).
> 
> I too never access music via streaming for dedicated listening. I guess the only difference between me and you for dedicated listening is I no longer have CDs, but I have the equivalent FLAC or DSD files - accessed through Roon of course. Roon then displays lyrics, information about the artist and album and related artists.


Man I resisted streaming and Roon forever, but once I realized that Roons software and ease of use, configuration and organizing was what I've been looking for I finally took the plunge 
Now I can't imagine not having Roon and I kick myself for not exploring it sooner. 
In the 2 months that I've had it, I've discovered over 2000 files and countless bands that I had previously been ignorant to. 
My favorite element of Roon is how it shows all of the various versions available of a particular song. 
I absolutely love Roon


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> I own ten of those albums, but you missed the biggest release from 1977...at least for me. This album changed my world!


Great album. Managed to get to see them in the early 90's in Newcastle/England. Some great bands emerged from CBGB's from the 1970's including the Ramones of course and other bands like Blondie, Television, Talking Heads, Patti Smith, The Police, Elvis Costello, The Misfits, B-52s, The Cramps, Joan Jett, etc.


----------



## Monsterzero

I saw them at least 7 times, including a show in NYC with backstage access. I spent an hour talking baseball card collecting with Johnny Ramone.


----------



## whirlwind

I always thought I was an outsider as I don't stream either, lol.
Plus I am an album listener and sometimes will work through someones library album by album.

Basically , lots of big hard drives and lots of flacs and decent bit of dsd for me also. I like the quality vs work aspect of it   

I am not against streaming however and watch and listen to some youtube stuff.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I saw them at least 7 times, including a show in NYC with backstage access. I spent an hour talking baseball card collecting with Johnny Ramone.


Ha...very cool stuff.

I was able to get this nice anthology in a cd deal I did here on head-fi a few years back.  It  is a great listen.
Has a nice book included.


----------



## jonathan c

leftside said:


> One advantage of getting older is that you've probably also forgotten what particular passages sound like


Luckily, I have been given an acute musical memory; and one advantage of getting older is that I really anticipate, enjoy, and treasure my music listening sessions. I am one for whom music listening is its own pursuit - not undertaken while doing something else.


----------



## Galapac

jonathan c said:


> Luckily, I have been given an acute musical memory; and one advantage of getting older is that I really anticipate, enjoy, and treasure my music listening sessions. I am one for whom music listening is its own pursuit - not undertaken while doing something else.


Music listening goes great with lawn mowing.


----------



## Zachik

Galapac said:


> Music listening goes great with lawn mowing.


I wonder if one could fit a GOTL on top of a lawnmower...


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> I wonder if one could fit a GOTL on top of a lawnmower...


We purchased a new home recently. We wanted a large backyard for our dogs, and...we got one. I foresee a John Deere in my future, which is hysterical within itself. I think a built-in headphone amp will be necessary.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> We purchased a new home recently. We wanted a large backyard for our dogs, and...we got one. I foresee a John Deere in my future, which is hysterical within itself. I think a built-in headphone amp will be necessary.


What happened? Does not look like Arizona...


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> What happened? Does not look like Arizona...


My wife's work won't allow her to work remotely from anywhere in the world except New York. 
Believe me, I'm not happy being stuck here, but I'm quite happy relatively speaking


----------



## bcowen

Galapac said:


> Music listening goes great with lawn mowing.


Goes even better while watching your kid mow the lawn.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Goes even better while watching your kid mow the lawn.


Speaking of music listening while doing something else, what is your favourite piece/tune as the golf cart inevitably goes in the lake...?


----------



## UntilThen

Roon on the golf cart is the best thing in the world.


----------



## JazzVinyl

We have noticed that at the local golf courses...all the players not in a cart have remote controlled motorized club carts.  They walk behind it with nothing but a remote in their hand.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> I am not against streaming however and watch and listen to some youtube stuff.



I am not "against it" either....just does not fit my preferred way of listening.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Speaking of music listening while doing something else, what is your favourite piece/tune as the golf cart inevitably goes in the lake...?


Madman Across the Water, of course.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Madman Across the Water, of course.


Well!, I would have thought “Aqualung” (Jethro Tull)...


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> We purchased a new home recently. We wanted a large backyard for our dogs, and...we got one. I foresee a John Deere in my future, which is hysterical within itself. I think a built-in headphone amp will be necessary.


Wow - the place looks awesome!!! Seems like plenty options for a man-cave for you


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Wow - the place looks awesome!!! Seems like plenty options for a man-cave for you


Thanks. Were pretty stoked. My mission for years was to

Get a bigger home
Get a better home
Get a huge yard for all my pups
Pay less money for it
Pay less taxes on it
Be away from asshole neighbors
Have better weather.

Six outta seven aint bad.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> I saw them at least 7 times, including a show in NYC with backstage access. I spent an hour talking baseball card collecting with Johnny Ramone.


Oh man - awesome!


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> My wife's work won't allow her to work remotely from anywhere in the world except New York.
> Believe me, I'm not happy being stuck here, but I'm quite happy relatively speaking


I'd be quite happy being stuck there! Place looks amazing.


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> Oh man - awesome!


It was, and pretty damn surreal too. Hanging out with a childhood punk hero and talking baseball cards, of all things.


----------



## Monsterzero (May 26, 2021)

Monsterzero said:


> It was, and pretty damn surreal too. Hanging out with a childhood punk hero and talking baseball cards, of all things.


I have an even more bizarre celeb encounter. Again im backstage, and this time its in Los Angeles watching the live stage production of Jesus Christ Superstar, featuring both Ted Neely as Jesus and the late, great Carl Anderson as Judas, both of whom were in the film.

JCS is one of the very first films I ever saw, also one of my alltime fav films and soundtracks. So since I was like five years old if someone mentioned God or Jesus I pictured Ted Neely.

So there I am talking to Jesus for like 45 minutes. I even told him how surreal it was and he said he gets that a lot, but damn both he and Carl were such humble and cool people. No ego. No attitude. No pose for a pic and split. Just cool.

So thats my story of hanging out with Jesus and Judas.


----------



## whirlwind (May 27, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Luckily, I have been given an acute musical memory; and one advantage of getting older is that I really anticipate, enjoy, and treasure my music listening sessions. I am one for whom music listening is its own pursuit - not undertaken while doing something else.





Galapac said:


> Music listening goes great with lawn mowing.



Yes it does....I use some cheap Chi-Fi iems when mowing and lying in bed...they get the job done and it is quite amazing what $50 will buy you these days!

Still my favorite listening is late at night...this is usually when I stay off head-fi...relax in my comfy chair...make a drink...turn the lights out and really enjoy my music.
This is also when I usually listen to my favorite tubes.

I listened to cd 1 off that Ramones Anthology last night with VC...quite enjoyable. "Beat On The Brat" is one of my favorite Ramone songs.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

All this love for Roon, think I'm finally going to try it.  I will set up my Innuos server as a Roon core when I get home.

In Joshua Tree National Park for a week, first time going anywhere since the pandemic started.  Feels good!!


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> In Joshua Tree National Park for a week, first time going anywhere since the pandemic started. Feels good!!


Been there for couple days 3-4 years ago 
Enjoy!!


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> All this love for Roon, think I'm finally going to try it.  I will set up my Innuos server as a Roon core when I get home.
> 
> In Joshua Tree National Park for a week, first time going anywhere since the pandemic started.  Feels good!!


One of my fav places in SoCal. Enjoy.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (May 27, 2021)

Zachik said:


> Been there for couple days 3-4 years ago
> Enjoy!!



I was last here 4 years ago...maybe we crossed paths 



Monsterzero said:


> One of my fav places in SoCal. Enjoy.



Thanks, D!  It's a beautiful place, love the silence of the desert.

Brought along some leisure reading.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I turned my Innuos server into a Roon core today, took two seconds.  Only an hour in, but I see why it is so beloved - great UI, streaming and digital library integration, metadata, album art, great artist recs on Roon Radio, local radio streaming...the Bluesound streamer I use in my bedroom is also Roon ready, it integrates seamlessly.

Yeah, Roon rocks, I am all aboard!  I know it's off topic, but hey I didn't bring it up first  finally getting to spend some real time with my new amp.


----------



## UntilThen

^^ and that's all you need to get to Paradise. Roon, turntable, bad ass amp and a pair of speakers like it mean business. 

Ah... LPs !


----------



## chrisdrop

L0rdGwyn said:


> I turned my Innuos server into a Roon core today, took two seconds.  Only an hour in, but I see why it is so beloved - great UI, streaming and digital library integration, metadata, album art, great artist recs on Roon Radio, local radio streaming...the Bluesound streamer I use in my bedroom is also Roon ready, it integrates seamlessly.
> 
> Yeah, Roon rocks, I am all aboard!  I know it's off topic, but hey I didn't bring it up first  finally getting to spend some real time with my new amp.


One of the best parts about Roon is their suggestions. I've found *so much new music* by letting it play after my queued listening....
The setup is looking lovely! Now - just listen carefully and be happy!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Jun 1, 2021)

chrisdrop said:


> One of the best parts about Roon is their suggestions. I've found *so much new music* by letting it play after my queued listening....
> The setup is looking lovely! Now - just listen carefully and be happy!



I'm very interested in this aspect of Roon, I've heard great things about using it for music discovery.  I go through music phases, having some help finding new artists in a specific genre is a big plus.  This system has reached a good stopping point, the hifi journey is never over, but I will be happy with this for a while.  At some point I will do turntable and phono stage upgrades, maybe design an LCR phono, I think everything else is stable for years.  I plan to keep the speakers at least until I move into a bigger home in 5-6 years, then maybe some vintage Altecs  might look into designing a DAC for my headphone setup too, it needs an upgrade, but no hurry.  Anyway, just rambling now lol time to shut up and listen.


----------



## Smallpie

Can an adapter be made to use C3g tubes into a 6sn7 socket?


----------



## mordy (Jun 2, 2021)

Akiravelvet said:


> Can an adapter be made to use C3g tubes into a 6sn7 socket?


Pentode to dual triode. I don't know, but I don't think so.
 I have an amp with two 6SN7 as drivers wired in parallel and there I can use two special adapters with EF86 (pentode) to 6SN7, but when I tried a single EF86 with this adapter in my GOTL I just got mono out of both channels (no soundstage).
In the past I have also used a pair of C3g tubes with adapters in the 6SN7 sockets in the other amp with parallel wiring.
(Pentode to single triode works fine with two separate adapters.)


----------



## rnros

Akiravelvet said:


> Can an adapter be made to use C3g tubes into a 6sn7 socket?





mordy said:


> Pentode to dual triode. I don't know, but I don't think so.
> I have an amp with two 6SN7 as drivers wired in parallel and there I can use two special adapters with EF86 (pentode) to 6SN7, but when I tried a single EF86 with this adapter in my GOTL I just got mono out of both channels (no soundstage).
> In the past I have also used a pair of C3g tubes with adapters in the 6SN7 sockets in the other amp with parallel wiring.
> (Pentode to single triode works fine with two separate adapters.)


hi mordy, akiravelvet,
I have used a dual pentode to 6SN7 adapter in the past.
Wanted to hear the EL3N in the GOTL before ordering the GEL3N, then continued to use that adapter with EL8s, no issues.
Check with @Deyan


----------



## mordy

rnros said:


> hi mordy, akiravelvet,
> I have used a dual pentode to 6SN7 adapter in the past.
> Wanted to hear the EL3N in the GOTL before ordering the GEL3N, then continued to use that adapter with EL8s, no issues.
> Check with @Deyan


If I understand correctly the dual adapter converts each pentode into a triode and then, when inserted into the 6SN7 socket, becomes both sides of the dual triode.
My answer pertained to if you could use a single pentode in the 6SN7 slot.


----------



## tintinsnowydog (Jun 3, 2021)

Akiravelvet said:


> Can an adapter be made to use C3g tubes into a 6sn7 socket?


It should definitely be possible, strapping 2x C3g as a pair of triodes --> 6SN7. The bias points of the two are quite different though, so am not sure how they will sound.  I stand corrected by the post below! That said, I have had success with a pair of EF86 pentodes with adapters in the 6SN7 socket.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

@Akiravelvet  a two-to-one C3g to 6SN7 adapter will definitely work, I'm sure Deyan can make you one.

The operating points of the 6SN7 and triode-strapped C3g are close enough that they will work well in the same socket.

In the GOTL built for C3g, Glenn used a 430ohm cathode resistor, whereas the 6SN7 used a 1K cathode resistor.

Using a 1K cathode resistor for both, you get this approximate load line and operating point for the 6SN7.




And this load line and operating point for the triode-strapped C3g.



The C3g operating point is reasonably linear.  Given it is a headphone amp and the C3g will not need to swing much voltage to reach listening volumes, the increased distortion from the slightly less optimal bias point of the C3g using a 1K cathode resistor will be negligible compared to a 430ohm cathode resistor


----------



## Smallpie

Thanks everybody for the info. im waiting on a package of a bunch of adapters from Deyan and might have to add this to my next shipment.

Wow, I got to really watch out with the 6/12/25 switch as I just put a 6sn7 tube in with the 12V switch on!! Only had it one for less than a minute and it seemed to not do any damage as far as I can hear. those 5692 tubes must be some toughies. anybody ever do this accidentally? if so did the tube go kaput?


----------



## whirlwind

Akiravelvet said:


> Wow, I got to really watch out with the 6/12/25 switch as I just put a 6sn7 tube in with the 12V switch on!! Only had it one for less than a minute and it seemed to not do any damage as far as I can hear. those 5692 tubes must be some toughies. anybody ever do this accidentally? if so did the tube go kaput?


I have for gotten to switch my voltage switch a couple of times, but not for long periods before I caught it....no damage.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> I have for gotten to switch my voltage switch a couple of times, but not for long periods before I caught it....no damage.


I have made that mistake a couple of times; most of the times the tube survived but not always.
The GOTL is engineered so that it does not turn on if the amp is set for the wrong voltage for the tube in the driver socket. However, if you are using an adapter this feature does not work and that’s when there is the possibility of damaging the tube.


----------



## mordy

Akiravelvet said:


> Thanks everybody for the info. im waiting on a package of a bunch of adapters from Deyan and might have to add this to my next shipment.
> 
> Wow, I got to really watch out with the 6/12/25 switch as I just put a 6sn7 tube in with the 12V switch on!! Only had it one for less than a minute and it seemed to not do any damage as far as I can hear. those 5692 tubes must be some toughies. anybody ever do this accidentally? if so did the tube go kaput?


Just to make myself clear: If you use a tube without an adapter in the 6SN7 socket with the wrong voltage set on the switch in the back of the amp, the amp will not turn on.
I just reconfirmed it with a 6SN7 tube and the voltage set at 25V - the blue halo on the on button does not light up. This is a safety feature. Once this happens you have to shut off the amp and maybe wait a minute or two for the amp to reset itself.  Then dial in the correct voltage and you are good to go. (But as said, an adapter [not socket saver] will cause this safety feature to be bypassed with the possibility of burning up the tube.)


----------



## leftside

Akiravelvet said:


> Thanks everybody for the info. im waiting on a package of a bunch of adapters from Deyan and might have to add this to my next shipment.
> 
> Wow, I got to really watch out with the 6/12/25 switch as I just put a 6sn7 tube in with the 12V switch on!! Only had it one for less than a minute and it seemed to not do any damage as far as I can hear. those 5692 tubes must be some toughies. anybody ever do this accidentally? if so did the tube go kaput?


The glow is good though, but not sure how long it will last


----------



## Smallpie

mordy said:


> Just to make myself clear: If you use a tube without an adapter in the 6SN7 socket with the wrong voltage set on the switch in the back of the amp, the amp will not turn on.
> I just reconfirmed it with a 6SN7 tube and the voltage set at 25V - the blue halo on the on button does not light up. This is a safety feature. Once this happens you have to shut off the amp and maybe wait a minute or two for the amp to reset itself.  Then dial in the correct voltage and you are good to go. (But as said, an adapter [not socket saver] will cause this safety feature to be bypassed with the possibility of burning up the tube.)


Maybe my GOTL was made different. I put a 5692 tube in the socket with no adapter and accidentally had it set to 12v and it definitely turned on. The sound had a high gain buzzy pitch to it and immediately realized what I did and turned it off. It played the song for about 10 seconds and I warmed the amp prior for about 2 minutes. I wonder why mine doesn’t have this failsafe? It is an older build too.


----------



## whirlwind

Akiravelvet said:


> Maybe my GOTL was made different. I put a 5692 tube in the socket with no adapter and accidentally had it set to 12v and it definitely turned on. The sound had a high gain buzzy pitch to it and immediately realized what I did and turned it off. It played the song for about 10 seconds and I warmed the amp prior for about 2 minutes. I wonder why mine doesn’t have this failsafe? It is an older build too.


Mine will also play with no adapter....however my blue LED light will not light....warning that the switch is in wrong position.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Mine will also play with no adapter....however my blue LED light will not light....warning that the switch is in wrong position.


In my case, if the blue light doesn’t go on, it means that the amp is shut off and no sound.
Are you saying that you still have sound with the blue light off and the wrong tube/setting?


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> In my case, if the blue light doesn’t go on, it means that the amp is shut off and no sound.
> Are you saying that you still have sound with the blue light off and the wrong tube/setting?


Yes


----------



## gibosi

It's been pretty quiet here recently, so figured I'd report on my most recent GOTL adventure. 

I finally got around to rolling in four RCA 6BX7. And to liven things up a bit, an Hungarian Tungsram PV200/600 rectifier and in the driver position, a Holland-made (Eindhoven) ECC40. Sounds good, but then it's only been 10 minutes. lol


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> It's been pretty quiet here recently, so figured I'd report on my most recent GOTL adventure.
> 
> I finally got around to rolling in four RCA 6BX7. And to liven things up a bit, an Hungarian Tungsram PV200/600 rectifier and in the driver position, a Holland-made (Eindhoven) ECC40. Sounds good, but then it's only been 10 minutes. lol



IMO, the side-getter RCA 6BX7 is one of the better ones out there and still very widely available.


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> IMO, the side-getter RCA 6BX7 is one of the better ones out there and still very widely available.



Yes, you and a number of others recommended the RCA, so I decided to pickup a few and give them a try. I'm going to leave these in the amp for awhile.


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 12, 2021)

gibosi said:


> It's been pretty quiet here recently, so figured I'd report on my most recent GOTL adventure.
> 
> I finally got around to rolling in four RCA 6BX7. And to liven things up a bit, an Hungarian Tungsram PV200/600 rectifier and in the driver position, a Holland-made (Eindhoven) ECC40. Sounds good, but then it's only been 10 minutes. lol


Does this rectifier sound similar to Telefunken ?


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Does this rectifier sound similar to Telefunken ?



Yes it does. I sometimes call this a "poor man's" Telefunken RGN4004.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> It's been pretty quiet here recently, so figured I'd report on my most recent GOTL adventure.
> 
> I finally got around to rolling in four RCA 6BX7. And to liven things up a bit, an Hungarian Tungsram PV200/600 rectifier and in the driver position, a Holland-made (Eindhoven) ECC40. Sounds good, but then it's only been 10 minutes. lol


What's with the rectifier adapter - looks a little precarious...


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> What's with the rectifier adapter - looks a little precarious...



It turns out that the size of the pins on these B-4 based rectifiers vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. In some cases, the pins slide all the way in to the adapter. And in the case of the Tungsram, they don't. So I simply push them in until they are snug. Yes, there is quite a bit of space between the bottom of the tube and top of the adapter, but it's a snug fit and quite secure.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> It turns out that the size of the pins on these B-4 based rectifiers vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. In some cases, the pins slide all the way in to the adapter. And in the case of the Tungsram, they don't. So I simply push them in until they are snug. Yes, there is quite a bit of space between the bottom of the tube and top of the adapter, but it's a snug fit and quite secure.


Good to hear - I was a little worried, remembering a couple of 155V shocks from my Little Dot days.


----------



## gibosi

gibosi said:


> It's been pretty quiet here recently, so figured I'd report on my most recent GOTL adventure.
> 
> I finally got around to rolling in four RCA 6BX7. And to liven things up a bit, an Hungarian Tungsram PV200/600 rectifier and in the driver position, a Holland-made (Eindhoven) ECC40. Sounds good, but then it's only been 10 minutes. lol



A small update: The Holland-made ECC40 was too muted, so swapped in a Valvo (Hamburg) ECC40, and I think this is better.


----------



## bcowen

gibosi said:


> A small update: The Holland-made ECC40 was too muted, so swapped in a Valvo (Hamburg) ECC40, and I think this is better.


Have you tried the Tungsram ECC40?  I like it better than the Valvo personally.


----------



## gibosi

bcowen said:


> Have you tried the Tungsram ECC40?  I like it better than the Valvo personally.



I thought about it, but considering that the rectifier is Tungsram, it seems to me that the a Tungsram ECC40, made in the same factory, would be just more of the same. Whereas, the Valvo gives me a slightly different tone plus the added treble emphasis I was looking for. But for sure, will roll a Tungsram next. And I have a couple other drivers I want to try as well


----------



## gibosi

bcowen said:


> Have you tried the Tungsram ECC40?  I like it better than the Valvo personally.



Well, color me surprised! Even with a Tungsram rectifier, the Tungsram ECC40 sounds better than the Valvo. Primarily, the mid range, especially vocals, seem smoother. I have one similar to yours, with yellow print and a straight-sided bottle. But I also have an older one, taller, with a bulbous base. Will roll that one in next.


----------



## whirlwind

I have kind of fallen off the wagon lately when it comes to buying tubes,
These beautiful Mullards have arrived from @chrisdrop safely.  Beautiful sounding tubes. Thanks much.
Enjoying some Bobby Rush - Porcupine Meat this morning with these Mullards and Bendix 6080...quite impressive.


----------



## gibosi (Jun 17, 2021)

gibosi said:


> Well, color me surprised! Even with a Tungsram rectifier, the Tungsram ECC40 sounds better than the Valvo. Primarily, the mid range, especially vocals, seem smoother. I have one similar to yours, with yellow print and a straight-sided bottle. But I also have an older one, taller, with a bulbous base. Will roll that one in next.



The most common version of the Tungsram to the left, yellow print and a straight sided bottle. Next, center, is an older Tungsram, which appears to copy the shape of the Philips, with a bulbous base, and on the right, a Philips ECC40, manufactured by Valvo (1949), and carrying the Siemens' brand.

Philips introduced new technology in the ECC40. It has a glass "coin" base that has been welded to the glass tube with "frit". You might notice that the mica spacers inside the Philips ECC40 do not touch the glass as this process resulted in a very rigid internal structure. And the welded base results in a seam which helps to easily distinguish Philips production from others, such as the Tungsram.

Oh, I really don't notice any difference between the older and new Tungsram. This is very nice combination. But again, most people will not be using this tube with RCA 6BX7 output and a Tungsram PV200/600 rectifier, so of course, YMMV.


----------



## Toad_of_Toad_Hall

.


----------



## whirlwind

These arrived yesterday. I have always wanted to try some, but keep thinking I would find a super good deal some day and I never did  LOL.
I finally just bit the bullet and grabbed these as they seem to be getting harder and harder to locate and I could get a quad set.

I will have to report back on the sound,  I can tell you they sound fantastic! Just will take some time to settle in.


----------



## Zachik

@whirlwind - I am VERY curious to hear your comparison to the red-skirt Philips EL3N tubes. 
If they sound as good as they look - I will have to look for a set, too


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> These arrived yesterday. I have always wanted to try some, but keep thinking I would find a super good deal some day and I never did  LOL.
> I finally just bit the bullet and grabbed these as they seem to be getting harder and harder to locate and I could get a quad set.
> 
> I will have to report back on the sound,  I can tell you they sound fantastic! Just will take some time to settle in.


Glad you got some too. I knew he had a few sets


----------



## whirlwind (Jun 20, 2021)

leftside said:


> Glad you got some too. I knew he had a few sets


Thanks, I could not get them for the price that he offered me a couple of months ago. I tried....LOL
He did have this nice quad set so I just bit the bullet. I agree with you that they are nice sounding tubes...just wish they were cheaper and more plentiful...All of my tube dealings with Lamberto have been positive however and the tubes always have been as described. On e-bay he is radio-antigua


----------



## whirlwind

Happy Fathers Day to everyone.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Thanks, I could not get them for the price that he offered me a couple of months ago. I tried....LOL
> He did have this nice quad set so I just bit the bullet. I agree with you that they are nice sounding tubes...just wish they were cheaper and more plentiful...All of my tube dealings with Lamberto have been positive however and the tubes always have been as described. On e-bay he is radio-antigua



My experience with Lamberto has been the same, quality tubes and never a problem. But yes, he is pretty stubborn when it comes to price.


----------



## Phantaminum

mordy said:


> In my case, if the blue light doesn’t go on, it means that the amp is shut off and no sound.
> Are you saying that you still have sound with the blue light off and the wrong tube/setting?



Just to reaffirm this, when I owned the amp, it would turn on regardless of tube, with or without an adapter, set to the wrong voltage. That's how I burned several nice tubes and caused damage to one of my headphones.


----------



## mordy

Phantaminum said:


> Just to reaffirm this, when I owned the amp, it would turn on regardless of tube, with or without an adapter, set to the wrong voltage. That's how I burned several nice tubes and caused damage to one of my headphones.


Caveat tubeo volvare! (Tube roller, beware!)


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> My experience with Lamberto has been the same, quality tubes and never a problem. But yes, he is pretty stubborn when it comes to price.



Yeah, LOL.  I guess I should have pulled the trigger when he first offered them to me at a better price.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Has anyone heard from Glenn recently, hope he is doing well. It would be great to see some new amp delivery message from him. It's been a long time.


----------



## mordy

Recently I had two Raytheon tubes go bad on me (one 6J5WGT and one 12J5WGT). Granted, these tubes are around 60-70 years old, but the vast majority of old tubes hold up well.
Does anybody else have such experiences with Raytheon tubes?


----------



## jonathan c

mordy said:


> Recently I had two Raytheon tubes go bad on me (one 6J5WGT and one 12J5WGT). Granted, these tubes are around 60-70 years old, but the vast majority of old tubes hold up well.
> Does anybody else have such experiences with Raytheon tubes?


In what way did they go bad?


----------



## mordy

jonathan c said:


> In what way did they go bad?


The 6J5 worked for a couple of listening sessions and then would not light up; the 12J5 worked for a minute or two, then two loud pops, and it died.
I always use pairs in a dual adapter; the second tube in each case works fine.
I am just curious if the Raytheon tubes have more problems than other brands.


----------



## mordy (Jun 23, 2021)

Can anybody identify the manufacturer of this pair 6SN7GT - listed as unknown (see edit bottom!):










EDIT: Using Google Images I found out what it is: Sovtek 6H8C


----------



## tintinsnowydog

Is there a consensus on the right way to store tubes either vertically or horizontally? I recall reading something about vertical storage being better in the long term but cannot find the info again or remember the reason. I have all my tubes stored vertically right now but as the stash grows larger, laying the tube boxes down horizontal is looking to be much easier!


----------



## Dogmatrix

tintinsnowydog said:


> Is there a consensus on the right way to store tubes either vertically or horizontally? I recall reading something about vertical storage being better in the long term but cannot find the info again or remember the reason. I have all my tubes stored vertically right now but as the stash grows larger, laying the tube boxes down horizontal is looking to be much easier!


I think the concern is the heater elements could sag over time with horizontal storage
I have however seen quite a few pictures of shops/dealers stock just haphazard jumbled in bins 
Just finished a set of plywood trays to store my precious vertically


----------



## mordy

Dogmatrix said:


> I think the concern is the heater elements could sag over time with horizontal storage
> I have however seen quite a few pictures of shops/dealers stock just haphazard jumbled in bins
> Just finished a set of plywood trays to store my precious vertically


From memory I cannot remember spec sheets that specify the mounting position of tubes; I seem to rememeber that some state that you can mount the tube in any position.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

I've come across an interesting 12AU7/ECC82 that I am unable to decipher. It's branded as an Australian Mullard with long 17mm plates and top foil getter similar to those of the 1950s Amperex long plate. Looking at the codes at the bottom 8G k6, factory code 8 confirms it is Philips Herleen factory. However, the date code for G doesn't exist and the batch code is absent. Anyone have any ideas? I enhanced the image a little to see the date code better.


----------



## mordy

tintinsnowydog said:


> I've come across an interesting 12AU7/ECC82 that I am unable to decipher. It's branded as an Australian Mullard with long 17mm plates and top foil getter similar to those of the 1950s Amperex long plate. Looking at the codes at the bottom 8G k6, factory code 8 confirms it is Philips Herleen factory. However, the date code for G doesn't exist and the batch code is absent. Anyone have any ideas? I enhanced the image a little to see the date code better.


Maybe it says BG k6 and it was made by Amalgamated Wireless Valve (AWV) in Australia on Philips equipment?
Does it look like this?


----------



## gibosi

tintinsnowydog said:


> I've come across an interesting 12AU7/ECC82 that I am unable to decipher. It's branded as an Australian Mullard with long 17mm plates and top foil getter similar to those of the 1950s Amperex long plate. Looking at the codes at the bottom 8G k6, factory code 8 confirms it is Philips Herleen factory. However, the date code for G doesn't exist and the batch code is absent. Anyone have any ideas? I enhanced the image a little to see the date code better.



As you note, it seems to have a couple pieces of a valid Philips code, but other pieces are missing, and taken altogether, it just doesn't fit. It is known that factories distant from Eindhoven did not always faithfully follow the pattern code, and with Mordy, I would guess that this might be an AWV valve manufactured in Australia. But again, this is just a WAG.


----------



## leftside

Looks like it is 8G K6. 

This is definitely an odd one, but I think I've managed to decipher it.

8G is the Philips type code for CV 4034 which is the military designation for an ECC82 (12AU7)
K6 is the Philips type code for ECC82 (12AU7).


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> As you note, it seems to have a couple pieces of a valid Philips code, but other pieces are missing, and taken altogether, it just doesn't fit. It is known that factories distant from Eindhoven did not always faithfully follow the pattern code, and with Mordy, I would guess that this might be an AWV valve manufactured in Australia. But again, this is just a WAG.





leftside said:


> Looks like it is 8G K6.
> 
> This is definitely an odd one, but I think I've managed to decipher it.
> 
> ...





leftside said:


> hilips type code for ECC82 (12AU7)





leftside said:


> Looks like it is 8G K6.
> 
> This is definitely an odd one, but I think I've managed to decipher it.
> 
> ...


Where do you think this tube was made? Holland? Australia?
I don't have much experience with Australian tubes, but so far I have not seen a tube marked Made in Australia that was manufactured in a different country.


----------



## tintinsnowydog (Jul 2, 2021)

Thanks mordy, gibosi and leftside for your replies, they have encouraged me to take a deep dive and further investigate these Aussie made tubes! Here is a discussion of my discoveries/thoughts so far in a mini-exhibit 

Here's a photo of all the 'Australian' 12AU7s I have come across. They all came packaged in these Philips Miniwatt blue and yellow boxes, and all are printed 12AU7A MADE IN AUSTRALIA on the ends. But when you open up the box, the tube may be foreign or truly Australian made.








The 2 leftmost tubes are the only ones of these, however, which I believe to be truly Australian made. Australian tubes have a few common brands printed on them (sometimes in combination)- 'Miniwatt', Super Radiotron, or AWV standing for Amalgamated Wireless Valve. AWV Co. Ltd. was formed initially with investors from Marconi and RCA in the US, and Telefunken from Europe.

These 2 12AU7 have unique appearances in their plate and getter shape combination assembly that differentiate them from US and European made 12AU7s. The left tube has code Gf C1I, with C factory code indicating Hendon Works, Alberton, Australia. Nevertheless, the left shortplate has plates that closely resemble Blackburn Mullards, and the right longer plate tube resembles RCA plates. It's likely that is where they got their parts!




An interesting specimen that is printed in faint white paint 'Made in Germany' was also in one of the boxes (right). On the left for comparison is a Hamburg Valvo ECC82, confirmed by the bottom date code (D factory code). Interestingly, the Australian version has almost identical construction (characteristic plate holes and slanted foil getter), but no date code anywhere.







This brings us to the tube in my previous post, below on the right. On the left is an Amperex Holland 7316 for comparison. The long plate structure and foil D getters are identical. The two tubes look absolutely identical, but the Australian one has lost most of its print unfortunately. The date code 8G k6 remains visible on the bottom.

Better seen in the second photo of this post (2nd tube from the right), under the cursive 't' of Miniwatt, there is a little text. I had originally thought they were the remnants of letters "AU" for 'Made in Australia', but I think they are more likely a printed date code, 4L. I am still unfamiliar with AWV date codes, but it could suggest December 1954.

So it is my best guess right now that the tube is Holland made, and I was deceived by the faded text and that it was in a 'Made in Australia' box 






Finally, other European contributions to AWV are also evident- there was a clearly Tunsgram branded tube in one of the boxes. There was also this smooth plate AWV/Super Radiotron 12AU7A (right), which looks otherwise identical to the Telefunken 60's smooth plate ECC82 (left). The smooth plate is unique afaik to Telefunken, as well as the thick Halo getter. Again, both tubes look identical, except the Australian tube is missing the important Telefunken diamond on its base.






So to recap, I believe that the 8G k6 date code stands to indicate Philips Eindhoven, that factories distant from Eindhoven did not rigorously follow the coding schemes as gibosi said, and the fact that 8G is the type code for CV4034 is a confounding coincidence 

I'll be on the lookout for more of these 12AU7s as they seem to shine some light on the key transitional periods in valve making and rebranding. While shipping is a nightmare to Australia these days, it seems that 'Australian' tubes are a melting pot of different makes from both EU and US!


----------



## mordy

tintinsnowydog said:


> Thanks mordy, gibosi and leftside for your replies, they have encouraged me to take a deep dive and further investigate these Aussie made tubes! Here is a discussion of my discoveries/thoughts so far in a mini-exhibit
> 
> Here's a photo of all the 'Australian' 12AU7s I have come across. They all came packaged in these Philips Miniwatt blue and yellow boxes, and all are printed 12AU7A MADE IN AUSTRALIA on the ends. But when you open up the box, the tube may be foreign or truly Australian made.
> 
> ...


Very interesting, indeed! I guess that we have to assume that the tube business in Australia was as convoluted as in the rest of the world...
In my Little Dot days I was hunting down a Mullard CV4010/M8100 (aka 6AK5/5654/EF95) tube and finally fond a good deal. The tubes looked just like the Mullards, down to the little black plastic pin protectors with the holes in them, but they did not sound as good as the UK made ones. Turns out that they were made by AWV in Sydney, AU. I remember reading that tube assemby structures were shipped ready made from England, and then the entire tube was put together and manufactured in Australia.
But to judge from the pictures and comparisons above, it seems that tubes were sourced from different countries and then stamped "Made in Australia".


----------



## Smallpie (Jul 5, 2021)

Shoutout to @Deyan forsending me a nice bundle of awesome adapters! Time to buy some new tubes and experiment.
(Had a scary moment there for a minute as I accidentally got the adapters sent to an old address of mine but thankfully the new owners held onto the package! Pheeew)


quick question. I’ve never seen it but am interested if anybody thinks it’s worth a shot or just a meaningless effort. Do you think there would be added sonic qualities to making a dual 12a_7 to 6sn7 adapter or even a dual 6sn7 to 6sn7 adapter?


----------



## gibosi

Akiravelvet said:


> quick question. I’ve never seen it but am interested if anybody thinks it’s worth a shot or just a meaningless effort. Do you think there would be added sonic qualities to making a dual 12a_7 to 6sn7 adapter or even a dual 6sn7 to 6sn7 adapter?



I can't imagine how these adapaters would be worth the time and money. But of course, YMMV.


----------



## jonathan c

~ On a related note, there are dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapters that you may look into. The 6J5 is “half” a 6SN7; the 6SN7 is two 6J5s on one chassis inside one tube.
~ The advantages of the dual 6J5 approach are said to be greater sound separation and a broader, more delineated soundstage. As always, your ‘earage’ may vary…


----------



## bcowen (Jul 5, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> ~ On a related note, there are dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapters that you may look into. The 6J5 is “half” a 6SN7; the 6SN7 is two 6J5s on one chassis inside one tube.
> ~ The advantages of the dual 6J5 approach are said to be greater sound separation and a broader, more delineated soundstage. As always, your ‘earage’ may vary…


Personally, I like the single triode tube approach for the sonics.  Plus you can still find some real gems out there for much less (even for 2 tubes) than a lot of 6SN7's are going for.  And to @Akiravelvet don't overlook 7A4's which are the loctal based version of the 6J5 (like the 7N7 is the loctal based version of the 6SN7).  A pair of Hytron labeled 7A4's are my current number one in the Incubus amp, and I have a good number of 6SN7's collecting dust.  Yup, a different adapter is needed for them, sorry.  But personally I think going the 6J5 and/or 7A4 route is a far better direction than putting dual triode tubes into a dual adapter (which may end up causing problems rather than improvement).  





Edit:  just looked at a full size picture of your adapter haul.     You may have one of those already that will work for 6J5's....just need to look at the pinout diagrams to see if the pin assignments are the same.


----------



## Smallpie

gibosi said:


> I can't imagine how these adapaters would be worth the time and money. But of course, YMMV.


Thanks, just thinking outside of the box so to speak.

@jonathan c  I have a 6j5 Chinese adapter and got a new one from deyan too in the haul. I have a few tubes for it: GEC L63, Cossor 6c5, fivre 6c5 and a bunch of rca metal tube 6j5’s and rca 12j5’s. The GEC l63’s have some microphonics in one tube so I need to get another pair via LangRex soon.
@bcowen  I have not tried a 7a4 yet and will add that to my next bundle. I have about 8 more adapters I want and then I’m done and all set for a plethora of experiments.


----------



## jonathan c

Akiravelvet said:


> Thanks, just thinking outside of the box so to speak.
> 
> @jonathan c  I have a 6j5 Chinese adapter and got a new one from deyan too in the haul. I have a few tubes for it: GEC L63, Cossor 6c5, fivre 6c5 and a bunch of rca metal tube 6j5’s and rca 12j5’s. The GEC l63’s have some microphonics in one tube so I need to get another pair via LangRex soon.
> @bcowen  I have not tried a 7a4 yet and will add that to my next bundle. I have about 8 more adapters I want and then I’m done and all set for a plethora of experiments.


Ideally, these experiments (or at least some of them) will be characterised by the Frankenstein film line: “It’s alive !”…


----------



## mordy

Akiravelvet said:


> Shoutout to @Deyan forsending me a nice bundle of awesome adapters! Time to buy some new tubes and experiment.
> (Had a scary moment there for a minute as I accidentally got the adapters sent to an old address of mine but thankfully the new owners held onto the package! Pheeew)
> 
> 
> quick question. I’ve never seen it but am interested if anybody thinks it’s worth a shot or just a meaningless effort. Do you think there would be added sonic qualities to making a dual 12a_7 to 6sn7 adapter or even a dual 6sn7 to 6sn7 adapter?


Spme amps have the driver tubes wired in parallel and it is here where you need two dual triode drivers. Personally, I don't think there are other benefits than cosmetic. Two drivers may look neater than a single one, but that's it.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

Akiravelvet said:


> Shoutout to @Deyan forsending me a nice bundle of awesome adapters! Time to buy some new tubes and experiment.
> (Had a scary moment there for a minute as I accidentally got the adapters sent to an old address of mine but thankfully the new owners held onto the package! Pheeew)
> 
> 
> quick question. I’ve never seen it but am interested if anybody thinks it’s worth a shot or just a meaningless effort. Do you think there would be added sonic qualities to making a dual 12a_7 to 6sn7 adapter or even a dual 6sn7 to 6sn7 adapter?


I have experimented with 2x 6SN7 to 6J5 adapters (using just 1 triode of each 6SN7) then a dual 6J5 back into 6SN7 socket. It has always been noisier and I think the 6J5 equivalents are cheaper and sound the same/better


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Akiravelvet said:


> Shoutout to @Deyan forsending me a nice bundle of awesome adapters! Time to buy some new tubes and experiment.
> (Had a scary moment there for a minute as I accidentally got the adapters sent to an old address of mine but thankfully the new owners held onto the package! Pheeew)
> 
> 
> quick question. I’ve never seen it but am interested if anybody thinks it’s worth a shot or just a meaningless effort. Do you think there would be added sonic qualities to making a dual 12a_7 to 6sn7 adapter or even a dual 6sn7 to 6sn7 adapter?





tintinsnowydog said:


> I have experimented with 2x 6SN7 to 6J5 adapters (using just 1 triode of each 6SN7) then a dual 6J5 back into 6SN7 socket. It has always been noisier and I think the 6J5 equivalents are cheaper and sound the same/better



Using a 2x 6SN7 to 6J5 approach, the best way to use them would be to have both 6SN7 sections in parallel, which essentially operates as a single triode with half the plate resistance, double the transconductance, roughly the same gain, reduced noise relative to a single section.  The bias point will change given the tube socket is set up to bias a single 6SN7 triode.  Hard to say if the sound would be better than using a single 6SN7 triode per channel or a 6J5.  I tend to think not, I haven't experimented with it personally.

Just FYI though - using a single section of a dual triode tube and leaving the other section heated, but not DC biased, will damage the section that is not under operation over time, so not recommended.


----------



## Smallpie

L0rdGwyn said:


> The bias point will change given the tube socket is set up to bias a single 6SN7 triode.


This is what I speculated. The reason why I brought it up was because there are so many great preamps out there that use a double triode for each channel. I notice few headphone amps do that and normally stick to only one tube instead of one for each channel or is it being used differently? In the GOTL is there no preamp tube and the only preamp part is the volume pot?


----------



## Smallpie

If the GOTL was built using a 6sn7 socket for each channel could it sound better? Or am I entirely missing something here with creating headphone circuitry?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Akiravelvet said:


> This is what I speculated. The reason why I brought it up was because there are so many great preamps out there that use a double triode for each channel. I notice few headphone amps do that and normally stick to only one tube instead of one for each channel or is it being used differently? In the GOTL is there no preamp tube and the only preamp part is the volume pot?



Well it depends on the preamp circuit, but many times preamps will use one section of a dual triode as a voltage gain stage and the other as a cathode follower.  The gain stage raises the volume, the cathode follower lowers the output impedance.  So two dual triodes, but the two halves of each are being used for different purposes.  You could wire both in parallel as a voltage gain stage (what I alluded to above), but the output impedance will be much higher than using a cathode follower, which is not desirable for a preamp.


----------



## gibosi (Jul 6, 2021)

Akiravelvet said:


> If the GOTL was built using a 6sn7 socket for each channel could it sound better? Or am I entirely missing something here with creating headphone circuitry?



Quite some time ago, in response to someone else asking this exact question in this forum, Glenn said that in his opinion, there was no sonic advantage to using two 6SN7 drivers as opposed to one.

And as a user, I know that having an amp with only one driver saves a lot of money.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Quite some time ago, in response to someone else asking this exact question in this forum, Glenn said that in his opinion, there was no sonic advantage to using two 6SN7 drivers as opposed to one.
> 
> And as a user, I know that having an amp with only one driver saves a lot of money.



No kidding, having to buy pairs of some of those 6SN7 tubes will lighten your wallet quickly .


----------



## Monsterzero

Looking for some tube wisdom...

Who has moved a large quantity of tubes from one home to the other, and what is the suggested safest way to pack them up? Im thinking about using 12 pack beer cases as they have the built in bottle dividers. I have all of my tubes in boxes, with a piece of styrafoam popcorn inside to minimize the tube movement.

Any other ideas or suggestions?


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Looking for some tube wisdom...
> 
> Who has moved a large quantity of tubes from one home to the other, and what is the suggested safest way to pack them up? Im thinking about using 12 pack beer cases as they have the built in bottle dividers. I have all of my tubes in boxes, with a piece of styrafoam popcorn inside to minimize the tube movement.
> 
> Any other ideas or suggestions?


If you pack them carefully, using bubble wrap and other packing materials etc I don't think that there will be any problems. To me, the biggest problem would be how to find the ones you want once you unpack - some kind of system to identify them by type would be necessary.
Personally I use shoe boxes and stick labels on them to keep track of all the tubes, but sometimes that doesn't help, and there are tubes I know I have but cannot find....


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Looking for some tube wisdom...
> 
> Who has moved a large quantity of tubes from one home to the other, and what is the suggested safest way to pack them up? Im thinking about using 12 pack beer cases as they have the built in bottle dividers. I have all of my tubes in boxes, with a piece of styrafoam popcorn inside to minimize the tube movement.
> 
> Any other ideas or suggestions?



I think this is a very good idea. Yours will be packed better than many I receive from eBay vendors. lol


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I think this is a very good idea. Yours will be packed better than many I receive from eBay vendors. lol


I have received hundreds of tubes (where did they all come from?) in the mail, and it is very rare that something arrived broken, but it could happen. The worst offenders are people who put several glass tubes together inside a box without tube boxes boxes and padding. and even then most tubes survive.
I once received a pair of tubes from Hungary in a regular (unpadded) paper envelope, each tube wrapped in half a paper napkin. They survived, maybe because they were sturdy Russian tubes.
So the moral is that as long as you take regular precautions everything will be safe. And the $500 tubes I would not entrust to the movers but carry myself....


----------



## bcowen

Monsterzero said:


> Looking for some tube wisdom...
> 
> Who has moved a large quantity of tubes from one home to the other, and what is the suggested safest way to pack them up? Im thinking about using 12 pack beer cases as they have the built in bottle dividers. I have all of my tubes in boxes, with a piece of styrafoam popcorn inside to minimize the tube movement.
> 
> Any other ideas or suggestions?


As @gibosi and @mordy have already chimed in, you should be fine if they are all in tube boxes already.  My hoard stash has been through 4 moves (1 by me, 3 by movers) packed just that way with no problems. I use these bankers boxes that can be broken down after the move and stored in minimal space for the next time (which I hope is never). Plus they're a nice size to hold a decent number of tubes without getting too heavy, unless of course your stash is comprised mostly of 211's and 845's. 

https://www.amazon.com/Bankers-Box-...-73ca-403a-923c-8152c45485fe&tag=scoutedv2-20


----------



## MIKELAP

Monsterzero said:


> Looking for some tube wisdom...
> 
> Who has moved a large quantity of tubes from one home to the other, and what is the suggested safest way to pack them up? Im thinking about using 12 pack beer cases as they have the built in bottle dividers. I have all of my tubes in boxes, with a piece of styrafoam popcorn inside to minimize the tube movement.
> 
> Any other ideas or suggestions?


----------



## Monsterzero

That beats the snot out of my empty beer boxes. Where does one go about finding that?


----------



## MIKELAP

Monsterzero said:


> That beats the snot out of my empty beer boxes. Where does one go about finding that?


Ebay is your friend .got that caddy around 6 years ago it's like new .Dont see them often like that , i figure its worth the expense just to have a safe place for those little glass jewels


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> That beats the snot out of my empty beer boxes. Where does one go about finding that?


Plenty of choices:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...70.l2632&_nkw=vacuum+tube+caddy&_sacat=183077


----------



## bcowen

MIKELAP said:


> Ebay is your friend .got that caddy around 6 years ago it's like new .Dont see them often like that , i figure its worth the expense just to have a safe place for those little glass jewels


Yup, tough to find them in excellent (or really good) condition these days.  But they _do_ pop up every now and then. I got mine about 10 years ago still in the factory taped shipping box. Only problem for me is that I'd need about 20 of them to store the whole stash.


----------



## mordy

bcowen said:


> Yup, tough to find them in excellent (or really good) condition these days.  But they _do_ pop up every now and then. I got mine about 10 years ago still in the factory taped shipping box. Only problem for me is that I'd need about 20 of them to store the whole stash.


1500 tubes?


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> 1500 tubes?


Not sure...less than 1000 probably, but I haven't ever counted a total.  These are (mostly) just the little ones.


----------



## gibosi

bcowen said:


> Yup, tough to find them in excellent (or really good) condition these days.  But they _do_ pop up every now and then. I got mine about 10 years ago still in the factory taped shipping box. Only problem for me is that I'd need about 20 of them to store the whole stash.



I have the same problem. It occurs to me that maybe I should look for a coffin? But I shudder to think about how much it would weigh when full (of tubes)!


----------



## gibosi (Jul 9, 2021)

As usual, operating out in left field, I just picked up some old RCA 5Z3 rectifiers with hot-branded bases, manufactured in 1935. RCA's Harrison factory was actually a GE factory up until 1932. At that time, it was given to RCA, lock, stock and barrel, as part of a government antitrust suit resulting in the dissolution of the RCA/GE/Westinghouse cartel. In only three years, I doubt much if anything changed, and therefore, I am inclined to believe that these are essentially old GE rectifiers.

With six Melz 6N12S and a pair of pentode-strapped Mullard EL42. Sounds good.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> It occurs to me that maybe I should look for a coffin?


Perfect solution if you want to be buried with your tubes one day (in the far future)...


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> I have the same problem. It occurs to me that maybe I should look for a coffin? But I shudder to think about how much it would weigh when full (of tubes)!



I remember lugging full tube caddies around town from about 1972-1982....It did not seem that heavy then    

Yeah, now they would be pretty heavy. I wish I would have saved a couple as they do seem pretty cool now.

Great for a move and storage.

These are my tubes that started out as" I will just keep the tubes I listen to project in here"... I need to clean this mess up, and store some tubes away that I don't listen too.
My wife gets in here to grab a set of iem's for a walk and every time she says "you need to clean this mess up and organize a little better"  LOL.


----------



## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> My wife gets in here to grab a set of iem's for a walk and every time she says "you need to clean this mess up and organize a little better"  LOL.


This is when you point out all her shoes and give her the "I know you are but what am I" line...  

From days gone by:


----------



## whirlwind

bcowen said:


> This is when you point out all her shoes and give her the "I know you are but what am I" line...
> 
> From days gone by:


She would have no problem with this......that is well organized ...plus you have a security guard in there.


----------



## whirlwind

Just received some nice NOS military Ken Rad 12J5GT


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> Just received some nice NOS military Ken Rad 12J5GT


Date code S 4 = June 1944?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Date code S 4 = June 1944?



Ken-Rad dates were related to their guarantee. The warranty was typically for a period of one year. In the example I have, S0 => Apr 1941. Extrapolating, S4 implies that the warranty was good until April 1945. And one could assume that the date of manufacture was a year earlier. Can't be sure, but probably close enough.


----------



## mordy (Jul 12, 2021)

gibosi said:


> Ken-Rad dates were related to their guarantee. The warranty was typically for a period of one year. In the example I have, S0 => Apr 1941. Extrapolating, S4 implies that the warranty was good until April 1945. And one could assume that the date of manufacture was a year earlier. Can't be sure, but probably close enough.


Thanks - very interesting! I wonder if the original boxes have dates on them - could not tell from the picture.


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Thanks - very interesting! I wonder if the original boxes have dates on them - could not tell from the picture.


All right - a little detective work and we have have some facts:



There is an order number printed on the box that says 43. Then it says accepted February 1944. 
It seems safe to say that S 4 means 1944 something...


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> All right - a little detective work and we have have some facts:
> 
> There is an order number printed on the box that says 43. Then it says accepted February 1944.
> It seems safe to say that S 4 means 1944 something...



This is true. But it is certainly possible that these tubes sat in a warehouse for several months, or even longer, before they were labeled and shipped out. Therefore, when looking at warranty dates, we can't get a precise date of manufacture. Sometime in 1944 or earlier is close enough.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 13, 2021)

Yep those are the boxes. I just figured they were from 1944 when I bought them.




So yeah....ordered in 1943....accepted in 1944 and as Ken has said, who knows how long they had spent sitting around.
I find all most all tubes from the 1940's sound pretty nice.

The great thing about the 12J5GT is that you can find true NOS tubes that don't break the bank and it is getting tougher to find NOS 6/12SN7

These 12J5GT's seem to have the same constuction as the metal base 6J5GT


----------



## triod750

As far as I can see, the innards of these 12J5GT look exactly as those of mine Brimar branded metal base 6J5GT/G, supposed to be manufactured by Ken-Rad.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6j5-thread-l63-6c5-12j5-6p5-etc.934653/post-16347197
I might be wrong since I don't see very far...


----------



## whirlwind

triod750 said:


> As far as I can see, the innards of these 12J5GT look exactly as those of mine Brimar branded metal base 6J5GT/G, supposed to be manufactured by Ken-Rad.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6j5-thread-l63-6c5-12j5-6p5-etc.934653/post-16347197
> I might be wrong since I don't see very far...


Yes sir...I would say you are correct and for even further confirmation the way those metal bases look on those tubes also points to Ken Rad as they had some sort of issue with there metal base tubes not staying clean looking.


----------



## triod750

They might not look clean but they look cool, don't they? Just like you and I!


----------



## whirlwind

triod750 said:


> They might not look clean but they look cool, don't they? Just like you and I!


Ha ha...yeah we are cool but.........


----------



## rlawry

Hi, All:  I am a recent follower on Head-Fi and relatively new to headphones, associated equipment, and streaming, etc.  Although I am a long-term audiophile and tube and vinyl afficionado, I am a relative newbie to this area.  I recently bought a pair of Kennerton Gjallarhorns and a relatively inexpensive desktop DAC/hybrid tube amp.  I was interested in reaching Glenn about ordering a Glenn OTL but not sure of his current status.  Could someone here advise me on whether he is still making custom OTL amps and how to reach him?  I am aware that there is a long wait time for his amps.  Thank you for all the great information here.


----------



## Monsterzero

rlawry said:


> Hi, All:  I am a recent follower on Head-Fi and relatively new to headphones, associated equipment, and streaming, etc.  Although I am a long-term audiophile and tube and vinyl afficionado, I am a relative newbie to this area.  I recently bought a pair of Kennerton Gjallarhorns and a relatively inexpensive desktop DAC/hybrid tube amp.  I was interested in reaching Glenn about ordering a Glenn OTL but not sure of his current status.  Could someone here advise me on whether he is still making custom OTL amps and how to reach him?  I am aware that there is a long wait time for his amps.  Thank you for all the great information here.


Im not sure any of us know whats happening with Glenn. He used to be quite active in this thread, but he had to move for a new job quite some time ago and we havent heard much from him since.

I suggest sending him a PM to @2359glenn and go from there. Good luck.


----------



## rlawry

Monsterzero said:


> Im not sure any of us know whats happening with Glenn. He used to be quite active in this thread, but he had to move for a new job quite some time ago and we havent heard much from him since.
> 
> I suggest sending him a PM to @2359glenn and go from there. Good luck.


Thank you.  I sent him a PM.  Hope all is OK with him.


----------



## whirlwind

rlawry said:


> Thank you.  I sent him a PM.  Hope all is OK with him.



Good luck...hope it all works out for you.


----------



## gibosi




----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


>


I am missing the caption that describes which tubes are being used?


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I am missing the caption that describes which tubes are being used?



Oh?  A British Cossor 53KU rectifier, a pair of triode-strapped Holland-made EL42 drivers and a pair of French Thompson CSF 6336A output tubes.


----------



## Zachik

gibosi said:


> and a pair of French Thompson CSF 6336A output tubes


Are those fatter / chubbier than other 6336A tubes? or is it a camera distortion / optical illusion?


----------



## gibosi

Zachik said:


> Are those fatter / chubbier than other 6336A tubes? or is it a camera distortion / optical illusion?





They do appear to be slightly chubbier and curvier than the Chatham's.


----------



## bcowen

gibosi said:


>


Awesome pic!


----------



## gibosi (Jul 24, 2021)

bcowen said:


> Awesome pic!



Glad you like it! 

But I really can't take much credit. My Pixel cell phone camera using "Night Sight" does it auto - "magically" for me.


----------



## Zachik

Guys - any recommendations or tips on how to get rid of mold odor from tube boxes?
I got some NIB NOS tubes and the boxes (which look brand new) smell really bad of mold!!
For now, I placed them in a ziploc bag with silica gel pack, but I am not sure if that would absorb just moisture or the associated mold odors as well...
Maybe one of those fridge smell absorbing thingies (that use baking soda inside)?

Any personal experience is highly appreciated!


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Guys - any recommendations or tips on how to get rid of mold odor from tube boxes?
> I got some NIB NOS tubes and the boxes (which look brand new) smell really bad of mold!!
> For now, I placed them in a ziploc bag with silica gel pack, but I am not sure if that would absorb just moisture or the associated mold odors as well...
> Maybe one of those fridge smell absorbing thingies (that use baking soda inside)?
> ...


Here are some suggetions (but did not try them myself):
https://www.thriftyfun.com/How-to-Remove-Musty-Odor-from-Paper.html


----------



## Karnicopia

You could wrap the tubes in dryer sheets to overpower the smell and could double as padding to protect the tubes. I have no experience though just an idea.


----------



## triod750

Zachik said:


> Guys - any recommendations or tips on how to get rid of mold odor from tube boxes?


A clever use of matches will solve the problem.


----------



## triod750

You can get rid of odour in your shoes with the use of bicarbonate. Maybe it would work here too?


----------



## Monsterzero

Karnicopia said:


> You could wrap the tubes in dryer sheets to overpower the smell and could double as padding to protect the tubes. I have no experience though just an idea.


This was going to be recommendation. Ive done this in the past when I buy things from smokers. Granted a nice airing outside helps as well.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Here are some suggetions (but did not try them myself):
> https://www.thriftyfun.com/How-to-Remove-Musty-Odor-from-Paper.html


Saw that online, but was hoping for recommendations from people with personal experience 



Karnicopia said:


> You could wrap the tubes in dryer sheets to overpower the smell and could double as padding to protect the tubes. I have no experience though just an idea.


That reminds me of people I knew that were not showering often enough, but instead used cologne to disguise their odor... 



triod750 said:


> A clever use of matches will solve the problem.


Hmmm..... 



Monsterzero said:


> This was going to be recommendation. Ive done this in the past when I buy things from smokers. Granted a nice airing outside helps as well.


I prefer not using perfumed products, if possible, but rather get rid of existing odor.


----------



## triod750

triod750 said:


> You can get rid of odour in your shoes with the use of bicarbonate. Maybe it would work here too?


You jumped this one - it was seriously meant. It seems to remove odour - not overpower it.


----------



## leftside

Anyone know the manufacture of these 12AT7/E81CC? I know it says Siemens, but they were also a rebrander. Halo getter.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

leftside said:


> Anyone know the manufacture of these 12AT7/E81CC? I know it says Siemens, but they were also a rebrander. Halo getter.


Are you able to see what the right hand column says? A little hard to read from the pictures  
The internals look very similar to the Siemens 'triple mica' ECC82/12AU7 with the grey plates and 3 mica big halo construction- wouldn't be surprised if it is Siemens made!


----------



## mordy

Here is a very nice sounding combination:



The combined age of all the tubes is 516 years! But they sound much younger and vigorous; however it took a while to wake up the two 6J5G tubes from their slumber for some 80 years.
GM 1938 (Raytheon?) and Zenith (Sylvania?) 1942 6J5G + 6 x 6N12S Melz from 1962.
Rich, full bodied mellow sound. It's the middle of the night but hard to go to sleep listening to such nice sounding tubes...


----------



## leftside

tintinsnowydog said:


> Are you able to see what the right hand column says? A little hard to read from the pictures
> The internals look very similar to the Siemens 'triple mica' ECC82/12AU7 with the grey plates and 3 mica big halo construction- wouldn't be surprised if it is Siemens made!


Yeah best I could do with that tiny print. Looks like this:
C 0 (with a line through the 0)
2 = (with a line also through the =)
8 A


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Yeah best I could do with that tiny print. Looks like this:
> C 0 (with a line through the 0)
> 2 = (with a line also through the =)
> 8 A


Found this - maybe of a little help:
_I've just bought a couple of Siemens E81CC valves, and wonder about the date code format. It looks like this:

C0 (the zero is actually a 0 with the angled stroke through it - I couldn't find the symbol)
6≠
9K

From what I've been able to deduce, the first line defines the valve type (E81CC), the second like is the variant number (i.e. 6th generation variant) and the manufacturing plant (Munich) and the last two are the date code (year/month), but determining the actual year is a bit hit or miss. Would this valve have been produced in Munich in '89?_

Perhaps it means:
_≠_ the Halske-Munich plant
Date code 8 A  = January 1968?  The Halske plant closed in 1971.


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> Yeah best I could do with that tiny print. Looks like this:
> C 0 (with a line through the 0)
> 2 = (with a line also through the =)
> 8 A



And in the Philips system, equal with a vertical line through it indicates Siemens und Halske, München.

 But the other characters do not correspond to the Philips code.


----------



## leftside

mordy said:


> Found this - maybe of a little help:
> _I've just bought a couple of Siemens E81CC valves, and wonder about the date code format. It looks like this:
> 
> C0 (the zero is actually a 0 with the angled stroke through it - I couldn't find the symbol)
> ...


Thanks. Good stuff Mordy!


----------



## mordy

I know that 7V tubes like the 7DJ8 will work in the GOTL, but what about 7.6V tubes such as the PCC189 dual triode?
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_pcc189.html

This tube has the same pinout as a 6DJ8. Has anybody tried it?


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> I know that 7V tubes like the 7DJ8 will work in the GOTL, but what about 7.6V tubes such as the PCC189 dual triode?
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_pcc189.html
> 
> This tube has the same pinout as a 6DJ8. Has anybody tried it?


Don't have a GOTL to try one in, but 7DJ8's are 7.6v filament tubes.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

I am curious about experimenting with the 7/7.6 volt 6DJ8/6922 equivalents, does operating the heaters at 6.3V change their electrical characteristics in the circuit? I know that testing a tube below its nominal filament voltage results in lower emissions, plate current and gm.


----------



## bcowen

tintinsnowydog said:


> I am curious about experimenting with the 7/7.6 volt 6DJ8/6922 equivalents, does operating the heaters at 6.3V change their electrical characteristics in the circuit? I know that testing a tube below its nominal filament voltage results in lower emissions, plate current and gm.


Probably changes things to some degree, but whether it's audibly significant depends on the amp and the rest of the circuit.  I've tried a few different PCC88's (7DJ8's) in a couple different amps and they worked just fine. They didn't light my fire with their sonic presentation, but that's just a synergy and personal preference thing mostly.


----------



## gibosi (Aug 6, 2021)

Many have run 7.6 volt tubes in the GOTL and various other amps with no problem.

That said, the PCC189 is a variable-mu double triode. My favorite definition: What you get when you twist a cow's tail... 

Seriously, gain is not a constant:

*variable mu tube* – a vacuum tube in which the amplification factor (mu or μ) varies by a predetermined amount with control-grid voltage. This effect is achieved by spacing the grid wires at regular intervals, so that an increasing negative grid bias is required to affect the anode current.

https://www.lossenderosstudio.com/glossary.php?index=v

edited.


----------



## triod750

The designer of my amp, Triod750, that uses 4 x 6B4G and 4 x 6DJ8 in push-pull advised against using PCC189 for sonic reasons. Using PCC88 was no problem according to him. I haven't tried PCC189 so I have no opinion.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

For anyone wanting to use a 7.6VAC tube in the GOTL that has the Lundahl mains transformer, might check the heater voltage out of the GOTL, likely to be higher than 6.3VAC anyway.  Don't recall which transformer Glenn used, but most Lundahl mains have heater taps higher than 6.3VAC, often 6.6VAC.  On top of that, Lundahl mains primaries are rated for 115VAC (parallel) or 230VAC (series), so if being used in a country with 120VAC or 240VAC rated power, all voltages will be 4.3% over the rated value (assuming your wall AC is actually 120V / 240V).  Take a Lundahl LL1650 for example - heater taps are 6.6VAC.  In the USA, the actual voltage will be 6.6 * 120/115 = 6.88VAC.  Given a +/- 10% heater voltage rule of thumb, running a 6.3VAC tube and a 7.6VAC tube at 6.88VAC should be fine without performance issues.  All depends on which transformer was used however, I can't remember which it was.


----------



## Zachik

L0rdGwyn said:


> For anyone wanting to use a 7.6VAC tube in the GOTL that has the Lundahl mains transformer, might check the heater voltage out of the GOTL, likely to be higher than 6.3VAC anyway.  Don't recall which transformer Glenn used, but most Lundahl mains have heater taps higher than 6.3VAC, often 6.6VAC.  On top of that, Lundahl mains primaries are rated for 115VAC (parallel) or 230VAC (series), so if being used in a country with 120VAC or 240VAC rated power, all voltages will be 4.3% over the rated value (assuming your wall AC is actually 120V / 240V).  Take a Lundahl LL1650 for example - heater taps are 6.6VAC.  In the USA, the actual voltage will be 6.6 * 120/115 = 6.88VAC.  Given a +/- 10% heater voltage rule of thumb, running a 6.3VAC tube and a 7.6VAC tube at 6.88VAC should be fine without performance issues.  All depends on which transformer was used however, I can't remember which it was.


What would happen if the secondary output is exactly 6.3VAC??
The tube was spec'd for 7.6VAC and was supplied a 6.3VAC... I cannot imagine under-voltage would harm anything other than possibly sound bad, or too low for tube to produce ANY sound. Am I wrong?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Zachik said:


> What would happen if the secondary output is exactly 6.3VAC??
> The tube was spec'd for 7.6VAC and was supplied a 6.3VAC... I cannot imagine under-voltage would harm anything other than possibly sound bad, or too low for tube to produce ANY sound. Am I wrong?



Emissions will be lower, but probably not an audible concern.  You typically don't want to go lower than 10% as cathode poisoning can occur, which will damage the tube over time.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

A few quick question about the preamp out function on the GOTL I've always wondered about- does the signal go through only the 6SN7 slot/driver tube, or does it go through the power tubes as well? I.e. would changing the power tubes when just using preamp out change anything? And would that be a similar expected design on other tube/OTL amps or would that vary? Never really used the preamp out function but thinking about trying the GOTL on the speaker setup. Thanks!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

tintinsnowydog said:


> A few quick question about the preamp out function on the GOTL I've always wondered about- does the signal go through only the 6SN7 slot/driver tube, or does it go through the power tubes as well? I.e. would changing the power tubes when just using preamp out change anything? And would that be a similar expected design on other tube/OTL amps or would that vary? Never really used the preamp out function but thinking about trying the GOTL on the speaker setup. Thanks!



Hey tintin - I'm not sure if Glenn took the pre-outs off the SRPP output (power stage), it would make sense if he did.  Probably the easiest way to find out is to open up the amp and see where the pre-outs connect in the circuit, after the 6SN7 coupling capacitors or after the output capacitors.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey tintin - I'm not sure if Glenn took the pre-outs off the SRPP output (power stage), it would make sense if he did.  Probably the easiest way to find out is to open up the amp and see where the pre-outs connect in the circuit, after the 6SN7 coupling capacitors or after the output capacitors.


Based on my limited understanding I would say that the GOTL preamp out involves all the tubes since the sound from speakers changes when you change the power tubes.
You could use the the headphone jack for preamp duty as well- I think that headphone out and RCA out are the same.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Another indicator would be if the gain changed when changing from say, a 6AS7G vs. a 5998.  Also, if both stages are involved, removing the power tube would cut the audio from the pre-outs.  If the pre-outs are connected to the output capacitors, then the headphone out and pre-out are the same.  It makes the most sense to do it this way as the SRPP stage will provide lower output impedance, better for driving the input capacitance of a power amplifier.


----------



## whirlwind

I lost one of my NOS Visseaux EL3N tubes this morning....filament burned out.
Just goes to show you that NOS tubes can go bad as well as tubes with thousands of hours on them.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> Another indicator would be if the gain changed when changing from say, a 6AS7G vs. a 5998.  Also, if both stages are involved, removing the power tube would cut the audio from the pre-outs.  If the pre-outs are connected to the output capacitors, then the headphone out and pre-out are the same.  It makes the most sense to do it this way as the SRPP stage will provide lower output impedance, better for driving the input capacitance of a power amplifier.


I once tried a 6336 and a 6528 tube and one channel was definitely louder since the 6528 has higher gain than the 6336.
I am sure that the pre-outs are connected to the output capacitors in the GOTL.


----------



## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> I lost one of my NOS Visseaux EL3N tubes this morning....filament burned out.
> Just goes to show you that NOS tubes can go bad as well as tubes with thousands of hours on them.


Bummer.  Seems like it's never an undesirable tube that dies...it's always a cherished one.


----------



## mordy

Seems like I myself have more of such experiences lately - over a few months lost a Chatham 6AS7G, a GEC 6J7GT, a GEC KTZ63, a Raytheon 6J5GT.
Luckily all of them were aquired at low prices (but costly to replace).

The tube doctor says it is age related. 

As the saying goes: OLD IS OLD.

But I ain't getting any of them New Production re-issue tubes...


----------



## gibosi

It seems to me that the best way forward is obvious. Put all your good stuff away and use only genuine GE vacuum tubes.


----------



## Galapac

mordy said:


> But I ain't getting any of them New Production re-issue tubes...


Unfortunately someday that is all that will be left…and GE tubes.


----------



## bcowen

gibosi said:


> Put all your good stuff away and *use only genuine GE vacuum tubes.*


Dang.  That's harsh.


----------



## bcowen

Galapac said:


> Unfortunately someday that is all that will be left…and GE tubes.


Is there a distinction?


----------



## tubebuyer2020

L0rdGwyn said:


> Emissions will be lower, but probably not an audible concern.  You typically don't want to go lower than 10% as cathode poisoning can occur, which will damage the tube over time.



Isn't cathode poisoning rather caused by leaving amp on without music playing?

I could never find the ultimate confirmation of that sort of information.

Given the recent posts here, this could be an interesting read for a patient reader (which I am not):

https://www.pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_A...s/Tomer_Bud/Getting_the_Most-Vacuum_Tubes.pdf


----------



## triod750

Chapter 10:
"Where many tubes are located in a  small enclosure,  or 
where the  normal dissipation of even a few tubes is quite 
high,  ordinary free  air circulation may not provide suffi
cient  cooling.  Under  these  conditions,  forced-air  cooling 
will  be  found  very  beneficial.  In  fact,  forced-air  cooling 
can almost always be counted on to increase  over-all tube 
life by as much as  100  percent.  In controlled life tests  in 
the factory, the effects of forced-air cooling can be  easily 
demonstrated".

Mordy's fan.


----------



## bcowen (Aug 8, 2021)

triod750 said:


> Chapter 10:
> "Where many tubes are located in a  small enclosure,  or
> where the  normal dissipation of even a few tubes is quite
> high,  ordinary free  air circulation may not provide suffi
> ...


----------



## tintinsnowydog

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey tintin - I'm not sure if Glenn took the pre-outs off the SRPP output (power stage), it would make sense if he did.  Probably the easiest way to find out is to open up the amp and see where the pre-outs connect in the circuit, after the 6SN7 coupling capacitors or after the output capacitors.


Hi LordGwyn, yes after some experimentation it seems outputs are being taken off the output capacitors, as there is no sound without power tubes- good to know and thanks for the explanation! 


whirlwind said:


> I lost one of my NOS Visseaux EL3N tubes this morning....filament burned out.
> Just goes to show you that NOS tubes can go bad as well as tubes with thousands of hours on them.


 I had a 6C4 tube testing better than ever on my tester and the filament burnt out as soon as I powered on the amp, bummer. There was also that 6SN7GTB that went out with a bang after leaving my tester on 25.2 volts...


----------



## triod750

"Never test any tube if you can possibly avoid doing so. 
Testing never improved a tube's condition and it can fre
quently do them  a lot  of harm.  Leave  this  highly  compli
cated  business  to  experts.  Concentrate  your  efforts  on 
testing equipment with the  tubes in  their  sockets.  In this 
connection,  it  is  frequently  advisable  to  add  jacks  or  to 
bring  out  test  points  so  that  tubes  and  circuits  can  be 
measured in their functioning condition. The fewer times 
you disturb tubes, the more reliable they will prove to  be. 
Recognize  the  fact  that  tubes  don't  just  fail - there 
must  be  a  reason !  More  often  than  not,  the  reason  is 
completely within your province and you can eliminate it 
if you know how. Do not overestimate the capabilities  of 
tube checkers and thus be led into a sense of false security. 
Become more familiar with the characteristics and symp
toms  of  tubes  as  they  really  are.  Soon  you  will  realize 
there is really nothing so  unreliable about tubes that more 
reliable  applications couldn't  cure".


----------



## L0rdGwyn

tubebuyer2020 said:


> Isn't cathode poisoning rather caused by leaving amp on without music playing?



No, it is caused by positive ions bombarding the cathode, damaging the emissive surface.  These ions are formed from residual gas colliding with electrons inside the tube.  The space charge from the heated cathode (cloud of electrons due to thermal emission) gives the cathode protection by neutralizing these positive ions before they collide with the cathode.  If the cathode is under heated, the space charge is lessened, so more collisions will occur.  Another way to damage the cathode is to leave it heated without any DC bias, like using only half of a dual triode, maybe that's what you're thinking of?


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> I lost one of my NOS Visseaux EL3N tubes this morning....filament burned out.
> Just goes to show you that NOS tubes can go bad as well as tubes with thousands of hours on them.


Damn! Same with me with a NOS Mullard 1954 CV455/12AT7 KB/DA last week. Went totally white on the top after only a few hours use in my main amps. Shame, as these are some of my favorite CV455/12AT7 and Langrex has just sold out of the bunch they had. Luckily Martin Billington still had a couple, but whenever I speak with Martin I always end up spending way more than I plan...


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> I lost one of my NOS Visseaux EL3N tubes this morning....filament burned out.
> Just goes to show you that NOS tubes can go bad as well as tubes with thousands of hours on them.


Sorry for your loss. 
I only have 1 pair, so fingers crossed your loss is a fluke. 
Btw, your buddy had a single when I bought the pair. In case you can work out a deal with him to substitute your dead tube.


----------



## mordy

leftside said:


> Damn! Same with me with a NOS Mullard 1954 CV455/12AT7 KB/DA last week. Went totally white on the top after only a few hours use in my main amps. Shame, as these are some of my favorite CV455/12AT7 and Langrex has just sold out of the bunch they had. Luckily Martin Billington still had a couple, but whenever I speak with Martin I always end up spending way more than I plan...


"The reason I am drawn to tube amps is the inconvenience and expense."
- I am just joking - it's the sound and the ability to change it with different tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Sorry for your loss.
> I only have 1 pair, so fingers crossed your loss is a fluke.
> Btw, your buddy had a single when I bought the pair. In case you can work out a deal with him to substitute your dead tube.


Yeah, I know he had one single left. I don't think I will pursue it though. I will just use what I have in the driver position.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Damn! Same with me with a NOS Mullard 1954 CV455/12AT7 KB/DA last week. Went totally white on the top after only a few hours use in my main amps. Shame, as these are some of my favorite CV455/12AT7 and Langrex has just sold out of the bunch they had. Luckily Martin Billington still had a couple, but whenever I speak with Martin I always end up spending way more than I plan...


Bad luck must be following us around, LOL.


----------



## jonathan c

whirlwind said:


> Bad luck must be following us around, LOL.


Albert King: “If I didn’t have bad luck, I would have no luck at all”…


----------



## Xcalibur255

tintinsnowydog said:


> A few quick question about the preamp out function on the GOTL I've always wondered about- does the signal go through only the 6SN7 slot/driver tube, or does it go through the power tubes as well? I.e. would changing the power tubes when just using preamp out change anything? And would that be a similar expected design on other tube/OTL amps or would that vary? Never really used the preamp out function but thinking about trying the GOTL on the speaker setup. Thanks!


The old ones go through the 6SN7 only, that's how mine was.  Judging by other comments it appears Glenn changed the implementation at some point.  I had the feature removed from mine in favor of using the jacks as a passive pass-through so I can no longer verify.  I remember using the pre-out audibly made the headphone out sound worse the single time I tried it, it seemed to load down the 6SN7 stage quite a bit.


----------



## mordy

Xcalibur255 said:


> The old ones go through the 6SN7 only, that's how mine was.  Judging by other comments it appears Glenn changed the implementation at some point.  I had the feature removed from mine in favor of using the jacks as a passive pass-through so I can no longer verify.  I remember using the pre-out audibly made the headphone out sound worse the single time I tried it, it seemed to load down the 6SN7 stage quite a bit.


I can't say if using the preamp out worsens the sound when headphones are plugged in, but if you use the preamp out and plug in headphones with less than 300 ohm rating at the same time, the sound gets significantly lower in volume.


----------



## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> Bad luck must be following us around, LOL.


Dang.  I may need to take a short sabbatical from this thread.  Someone PM me when it's safe again please.


----------



## Velozity

Unicorn spotted in the wild...

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/glenn-otl-w-a-massive-tube-bundle.9248/


----------



## whirlwind

jonathan c said:


> Albert King: “If I didn’t have bad luck, I would have no luck at all”…


Once I started to listen to this guy , I could not help myself to go down the Albert King rabbit hole and buy many , many albums.....he was a great mentor to SRV.


----------



## jonathan c

whirlwind said:


> Once I started to listen to this guy , I could not help myself to go down the Albert King rabbit hole and buy many , many albums.....he was a great mentor to SRV.


There is so much with Albert King: the ‘economy’ of his playing, the choice of notes, the use of delay and tension, the suave looks, the Flying V…..my favourite of the Kings….no wonder that he was so important to Stax Records.


----------



## whirlwind

jonathan c said:


> There is so much with Albert King: the ‘economy’ of his playing, the choice of notes, the use of delay and tension, the suave looks, the Flying V…..my favourite of the Kings….no wonder that he was so important to Stax Records.


Yeah, absolutely.....not to mention his mentoring and friendship with SRV.
Albert was a big SOB too


----------



## pippen99

Saw him as an opening act for the Who in the mid 70s.  To give credit where credit is due:  "Born Under a Bad Sign" music and lyrics by William Bell and Booker T. Jones.


----------



## whirlwind

pippen99 said:


> Saw him as an opening act for the Who in the mid 70s.  To give credit where credit is due:  "Born Under a Bad Sign" music and lyrics by William Bell and Booker T. Jones.


Did Albert play while smoking his pipe....only the coolest of the cool can pull that off    
1970, that would have been around the time of the Blues For Elvis album.
My favorite Albert King song that he wrote is "I Get Evil"
My favorite Albert King song that he covered was "The Hunter"...also written by Booker T and Bell.


----------



## pippen99

I honestly don't remember.  It was the 70s so I suspect I was pharmaceutically challenged at the time.


----------



## tintinsnowydog (Aug 18, 2021)

So I've just grabbed some flying lead CV4038 (normal version is the CV4079/A2293). Anyone have any experience soldering 9 pin flying leads into bases? Not sure what parts I should use for the base+ any tricks to getting it done. I've got maybe 2.5cm on the leads to work with.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

tintinsnowydog said:


> So I've just grabbed some flying lead CV4038 (normal version is the CV4079/A2293). Anyone have any experience soldering 9 pin flying leads into bases? Not sure what parts I should use for the base+ any tricks to getting it done. I've got maybe 2.5cm on the leads to work with.



I've used something like this in the past: 1pc B9A tube adapter For CV4033/CV4034/CV4035/ECC83/ECC82/12AX7/12AU7 fly lead

Not the most elegant, but they can be made to work, tricky to solder as heating the pads will flow the solder on the adapter pins which will fall out of alignment if not held in place.

Might be a better solution out there.  Tube Monger has their own proprietary adapters which are great but they don't sell them, they come fitted on flying lead tubes they sell.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've used something like this in the past: 1pc B9A tube adapter For CV4033/CV4034/CV4035/ECC83/ECC82/12AX7/12AU7 fly lead
> 
> Not the most elegant, but they can be made to work, tricky to solder as heating the pads will flow the solder on the adapter pins which will fall out of alignment if not held in place.
> 
> Might be a better solution out there.  Tube Monger has their own proprietary adapters which are great but they don't sell them, they come fitted on flying lead tubes they sell.


That looks like what I had in mind/looking for, but 'flying lead adapter' wasn't coming up with anything on ebay. Thanks!


----------



## bcowen

tintinsnowydog said:


> That looks like what I had in mind/looking for, but 'flying lead adapter' wasn't coming up with anything on ebay. Thanks!


Or you can go cheap and dirty and just use a socket saver.  Mullard CV3986:






Grabbed a piece of PVC pipe out of the garage that fit the socket saver diameter perfectly, painted it black, glued it on, and made it look a little less, um, garage built.


----------



## tintinsnowydog

That certainly looks like a good option too! When applying heat with the iron, do you just do it to the top, or from underneath on the 'male' pins of the socket saver?


----------



## gibosi (Aug 18, 2021)

Or you can make it even cruder just to get a quick listen before you try to make it pretty. This is an example of what are called "pencil tubes". In this case, a Sylvania 7963, a nice very small double triode designed for use in guided missiles.

I cut pieces of 14 guage house wiring and jammed them tight into the holes of an octal base. Soldered the leads to the respective "posts" and wrapped the exposed wires with white electrical tape. It looks really, really awful, but it worked. And I decided that it wasn't worth making it look any prettier. lol


----------



## bcowen

tintinsnowydog said:


> That certainly looks like a good option too! When applying heat with the iron, do you just do it to the top, or from underneath on the 'male' pins of the socket saver?


Just to the top.


----------



## bcowen

gibosi said:


> Or you can make it even cruder just to get a quick listen before you try to make it pretty. This is an example of what are called "pencil tubes". In this case, a Sylvania 7963, a nice very small double triode designed for use in guided missiles.
> 
> I cut pieces of 14 guage house wiring and jammed them tight into the holes of an octal base. Soldered the leads to the respective "posts" and wrapped the exposed wires with white electrical tape. It looks really, really awful, but it worked. And I decided that it wasn't worth making it look any prettier. lol


Since your ears can't see....   

Melz 6N16B (close to a 6SN7) in an octal base.  Makes the adjacent 6080 look _really_ big:


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Or you can go cheap and dirty and just use a socket saver.  Mullard CV3986:


Another appearance of the “squid”* tube from 20,000 leagues under the sea…
(* sound quality unmatched in dollars…)


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Since your ears can't see....
> 
> Melz 6N16B (close to a 6SN7) in an octal base.  Makes the adjacent 6080 look _really_ big:


Does that Melz need a ‘valvagra’?…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Does that Melz need a ‘valvagra’?…


LOL!  No, but it could certainly benefit from Penoplasty.


----------



## triod750

bcowen said:


> Since your ears can't see....
> 
> Melz 6N16B (close to a 6SN7) in an octal base.  Makes the adjacent 6080 look _really_ big:


How does this compare to Melz 6H8C in sound? In what way do they differ? (I haven't tried the 6H8C with holes in plates).


----------



## bcowen

triod750 said:


> How does this compare to Melz 6H8C in sound? In what way do they differ? (I haven't tried the 6H8C with holes in plates).


It compares quite favorably to the regular 6H8C.  A bit less impactful in the bass, but the mids and treble are just as good.  Soundstage is about the same, but the 6H8C images a bit better (not a huge difference though). Very quiet too.  I was hoping it would climb the stairs into the hole-y land of the Melz 1578, but not quite.  Still very good sounding, and I think I paid less than $4 a tube so a good sounding _cheap_ tube.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I lost one of my NOS Visseaux EL3N tubes this morning....filament burned out.
> Just goes to show you that NOS tubes can go bad as well as tubes with thousands of hours on them.



Did it go up in a pink flame, like my Sylvania 807?   It's beautiful to watch.


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> It compares quite favorably to the regular 6H8C.  A bit less impactful in the bass, but the mids and treble are just as good.  Soundstage is about the same, but the 6H8C images a bit better (not a huge difference though). Very quiet too.  I was hoping it would climb the stairs into the hole-y land of the Melz 1578, but not quite.  Still very good sounding, and I think I paid less than $4 a tube so a good sounding _cheap_ tube.



I just roll in the 6H8C and the heavens open.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Did it go up in a pink flame, like my Sylvania 807?   It's beautiful to watch.


No flames , filament just burn out.


----------



## Earz2DaWall

Hello all,
How do I get on the list to purchase a Glenn studios otl amp?
Best,
Seth


----------



## Monsterzero

Earz2DaWall said:


> Hello all,
> How do I get on the list to purchase a Glenn studios otl amp?
> Best,
> Seth


The best bet is to send @2359glenn a private message and ask the man himself. I dont know if he is still building amps or not.

Other than that you can keep your fingers crossed that one turns up on the used market.

Good luck.


----------



## robo24

I don't think he is. I've been in queue almost 2 years and there are others who have been waiting quite a bit longer.


----------



## whirlwind

At this point , I would guess that the used market is your best chance.


----------



## triod750

I would love to be able to buy the whole used market. What a smorgasbord to have!


----------



## whirlwind

I have been much enjoying the sound of these Raytheon driver tubes, a very pleasant surprise. 
 I have  been addicted to Christone "Kingfish" Ingrams new album as of late....fantastic artist!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I have been addicted to Christone "Kingfish" Ingrams new album as of late....fantastic artist!



What a coincidence. Was just listening to this album on Tidal and I came here and saw this. On LCD4 it's just great.


----------



## nicholas1213

New lucky owner of Gle3n reporting in - I have posted in VC thread earlier, but thought of dropping by here as well.

Well it is needless for me to describe how they sound on my VC. I read somewhere that this Gel3n is able to drive 1266 as well? Man I need to try that out some day (until I own a 1266)..


----------



## JazzVinyl

nicholas1213 said:


> New lucky owner of Gle3n reporting in - I have posted in VC thread earlier, but thought of dropping by here as well.
> 
> Well it is needless for me to describe how they sound on my VC. I read somewhere that this Gel3n is able to drive 1266 as well? Man I need to try that out some day (until I own a 1266)..



Beautiful Amp!  Congrats!


----------



## heliosphann

Pretty quite around here these days, huh?


----------



## Zachik

heliosphann said:


> Pretty quite around here these days, huh?


Did you have to wake @bcowen up?  Now he will start hyping his favorite GE tubes again.......


----------



## heliosphann

Zachik said:


> Did you have to wake @bcowen up?  Now he will start hyping his favorite GE tubes again.......


I'm out of the loop, what tubes? @bcowen plz tell me about them if only to make @Zachik day.


----------



## bcowen (Sep 5, 2021)

heliosphann said:


> I'm out of the loop, what tubes? @bcowen plz tell me about them if only to make @Zachik day.


Nothing newsworthy, sad to say.  I just seem to have an (undeserved) reputation for loving GE tubes....so long as they're in other people's components.


----------



## heliosphann

bcowen said:


> Nothing newsworthy, sad to say.  I just seem to have an (undeserved) reputation for loving GE tubes....so long as they're in other people's components.


I still have FOMO for Tung Sol 7802's. @L0rdGwyn bought the last several pairs on the planet.


----------



## Zachik

heliosphann said:


> @L0rdGwyn bought the last several pairs on the planet.


It's called being a disruptor


----------



## bcowen

heliosphann said:


> I still have FOMO for Tung Sol 7802's. @L0rdGwyn bought the last several pairs on the planet.


I'd never even heard of that tube type...until now.  Looks like it plays in the same ballpark as a 5998?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

bcowen said:


> I'd never even heard of that tube type...until now.  Looks like it plays in the same ballpark as a 5998?



It's a pretty rare one, highest gm tube of the 6AS7G / 5998 family!  20K micromhos vs. 14K micromhos for the 5998.  They are pretty much extinct though, I don't think many were made in the first place.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

L0rdGwyn said:


> It's a pretty rare one, highest gm tube of the 6AS7G / 5998 family!  20K micromhos vs. 14K micromhos for the 5998.  They are pretty much extinct though, I don't think many were made in the first place.



Another one of interest is the KT90. Sadly it's not a dual triode, so you would have to buy more of them, but they have a transconductance of 15K micromhos and they are WAYYYY more linear than any tube in the 6as7 family. 

But I still prefer super triodes over normal OTLs.


----------



## bcowen

Tjj226 Angel said:


> Another one of interest is the KT90. Sadly it's not a dual triode, so you would have to buy more of them, but they have a transconductance of 15K micromhos and they are WAYYYY more linear than any tube in the 6as7 family.
> 
> But I still prefer super triodes over normal OTLs.


Have several of the Type 3's in the stash.  Big, ballsy, dynamic sound (compared to 6550's and KT-88's).  Never tried them in a 5998/6AS7 app though.


----------



## triod750 (Sep 6, 2021)

What can these tubes be used for? Hearing aids?






Available with metal base too.





_*Up for sale, matched pair - TELEFUNKEN EL3010 - power pentode *_

*The EL3010 made by Telefunken is claimed to be the most advanced tube ever made. Designed to be used with transistor drivers. The EL3010 has an extremely high transconductance of 90 mA/V.

Made in Ulm - West Germany

Purchased from EADS ( European Aeronautic Defense and Space Company ) on their liquidation action in 2014 - tubes were very well taken care of

NSN p/n 5960-12-152-1672

Metal base

Low noise

Long lifespan

Data sheet is available on the following link: HTTPS://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/128/e/EL3010.pdf *

_*BRAND NEW IN BOX - NEW OLD STOCK*_

*What you see is what you get

Note: It would be great replacement tube for your audio amplifier based on EL34 6CA7 KT77 - converter / adapter is available for purchase from various vendors ( please check on eBay or conduct google search )*


----------



## leftside

triod750 said:


> What can these tubes be used for? Hearing aids?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202978181379


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

bcowen said:


> Have several of the Type 3's in the stash.  Big, ballsy, dynamic sound (compared to 6550's and KT-88's).  Never tried them in a 5998/6AS7 app though



They are one of the most underrated tubes out there.


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> It's a pretty rare one, highest gm tube of the 6AS7G / 5998 family!  20K micromhos vs. 14K micromhos for the 5998.  They are pretty much extinct though, I don't think many were made in the first place.


Apparently. I was hitting up people in Europe, contacting all the big tube dealers I knew of. Most of them had never even heard of it!


----------



## Smallpie

I just posted a lot of tubes that go well with the GOTL. Let me know if any interest you guys and I’ll give you a great deal.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/misc-tubes-6080-etc.10916/


----------



## heliosphann

Akiravelvet said:


> I just posted a lot of tubes that go well with the GOTL. Let me know if any interest you guys and I’ll give you a great deal.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/misc-tubes-6080-etc.10916/


Hit you up about the adapters.


----------



## mordy

Speaking about tubes, it appears to me that new tubes generally run hotter in the beginning of using them, compared to when they are burned in.
Did anybody notice this?
Is there an explanation for it?


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> Speaking about tubes, it appears to me that new tubes generally run hotter in the beginning of using them, compared to when they are burned in.
> Did anybody notice this?
> Is there an explanation for it?


I've never really noticed this, but then I haven't been paying attention to it either.


----------



## mordy

bcowen said:


> I've never really noticed this, but then I haven't been paying attention to it either.


Well, I have noticed it and yesterday my finger reminded me of it lol! I am burning in a tube and it was much hotter than I thought - 77C. After a few more hours of use and cooling off overnight it now measures 64C under the same conditions.


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> Well, I have noticed it and yesterday my finger reminded me of it lol! I am burning in a tube and it was much hotter than I thought - 77C. After a few more hours of use and cooling off overnight it now measures 64C under the same conditions.


When was your finger last calibrated?


----------



## mordy (Sep 14, 2021)

bcowen said:


> When was your finger last calibrated?


The nociceptive flexion reflex involving my finger was calibrated about seven decades ago and is still well within tolerance.
On another occasion I reached in behind my amp to check a connection whereupon I burned my wrist on a very hot 6080 tube. The withdrawal reflex was so strong that I broke my ventilating fan and the guide pin on a tube.


----------



## Zachik

Anyone heard from Glenn in the last 2 months?
I have been trying desperately and repeatedly to get a hold of him (quick question regarding my EL3N amp), by PMs and by emails, but no response!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Unfortunately I think Glenn has been MIA for most everyone for several months from conversations I've had.  Is it a question someone on the forum can answer?


----------



## nicholas1213

Zachik said:


> Anyone heard from Glenn in the last 2 months?
> I have been trying desperately and repeatedly to get a hold of him (quick question regarding my EL3N amp), by PMs and by emails, but no response!



Hopefully nothing too serious happen to your el3n amp? And of course sincerely hope that all is fine with Glenn. 

I am still enjoying every single bit on my Gel3n with zmf VC. Ordered a pair of el3n to el34 earlier and can't wait to try out el34 tube on Gel3n soon!


----------



## Zachik

nicholas1213 said:


> Hopefully nothing too serious happen to your el3n amp?


Amp is doing well - I wanted to try different type of tubes (with adapter) and wanted Glenn's blessing... 



nicholas1213 said:


> And of course sincerely hope that all is fine with Glenn.


Absolutely!


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> Amp is doing well - I wanted to try different type of tubes (with adapter) and wanted Glenn's blessing...


You have my blessing, although I'd like to see a picture of the adapter for the 845's.  Hope you got NOS RCA's?


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> You have my blessing, although I'd like to see a picture of the adapter for the 845's.  Hope you got NOS RCA's?



lol you're evil.


----------



## Zachik

Yeah... Bill is the kinda guy that would scream at the poor guy being persuaded by his friends to try a dangerous and stupid stunt:
"Do it... Do it... DO IT!!!"


----------



## whirlwind

nicholas1213 said:


> Hopefully nothing too serious happen to your el3n amp? And of course sincerely hope that all is fine with Glenn.
> 
> I am still enjoying every single bit on my Gel3n with zmf VC. Ordered a pair of el3n to el34 earlier and can't wait to try out el34 tube on Gel3n soon!


You will be glad you did.

Your LCD-X should sound very nice with this amp also.


----------



## whirlwind

I hope Glenn is doing OK.

He is not on head-fi much anymore.


----------



## nicholas1213

whirlwind said:


> You will be glad you did.
> 
> Your LCD-X should sound very nice with this amp also.



Thank you! Saw a few Gel3n owners also swap out the two rear el3n to el34 (ordered the adapter socket from Deyan), so can't wait to try out!

Unfortunately I have sold away my LCD-X earlier to make room for Rad-0 😅


----------



## whirlwind

nicholas1213 said:


> Thank you! Saw a few Gel3n owners also swap out the two rear el3n to el34 (ordered the adapter socket from Deyan), so can't wait to try out!
> 
> Unfortunately I have sold away my LCD-X earlier to make room for Rad-0 😅


The Rad-0 planar should  sound great with GEL3N


----------



## nicholas1213

whirlwind said:


> The Rad-0 planar should  sound great with GEL3N


Yes I paired the Gel3n with LCD-X previously then they were really nice, I bet Gel3n should match planar nicely, so as the Rad-0 as you mentioned.

Also, trying out the triode / pentode mode on Gel3n, I find myself preferring the triode mode more, as in it is more musical. Although with less gain (using VC with volume knob at around 11 o'clock), I find it more than sufficient. With pentode mode, the volume knob won't pass 9 o'clock and that's insane..


----------



## Zachik

nicholas1213 said:


> Also, trying out the triode / pentode mode on Gel3n, I find myself preferring the triode mode more, as in it is more musical.


Do you have a mode selection?!  or are you referring to 1-tube / 2-tube selection?
(I never heard of triode / pentode mode selection on Glenn's EL3N amps...)


----------



## nicholas1213

Zachik said:


> Do you have a mode selection?!  or are you referring to 1-tube / 2-tube selection?
> (I never heard of triode / pentode mode selection on Glenn's EL3N amps...)



Yes I am referring to the mode selection - hmm probably I am confused with some other write-up about the triode / pentode, pardon me!


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Do you have a mode selection?!  or are you referring to 1-tube / 2-tube selection?
> (I never heard of triode / pentode mode selection on Glenn's EL3N amps...)


I think Glenn made an amp or two with pentode mode before he adjusted the build.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> I think Glenn made an amp or two with pentode mode before he adjusted the build.


Interesting. Never heard of that before.
I know EL3N have 1-tube/2-tube selection almost as standard, which is awesome for very sensitive headphones... In fact, think of it now - I think I should try it out with IEMs 
(if only my IEM cables were longer... grrr.....)


----------



## UntilThen

You're probably thinking about my amp triode and UL mode.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Interesting. Never heard of that before.
> I know EL3N have 1-tube/2-tube selection almost as standard, which is awesome for very sensitive headphones... In fact, think of it now - I think I should try it out with IEMs
> (if only my IEM cables were longer... grrr.....)


I have never tried IEMs in one tube mode either.....on the to do list.


----------



## nicholas1213 (Sep 22, 2021)

whirlwind said:


> I have never tried IEMs in one tube mode either.....on the to do list.


I tried my shure se846 using one tube mode and they sounded really really good! Volume knob is at around 9-10 oclock i guess. SE846 is pretty easy to drive. I do not have a lot of experience with other tube amp and always heard 'hissing' issue coming from tube amp? Not on Gel3n, it is dead quiet with dark dark background.


----------



## nicholas1213

UntilThen said:


> You're probably thinking about my amp triode and UL mode.


So it is actually a different mode setting compared to the so called one / two tube mode?


----------



## UntilThen

nicholas1213 said:


> So it is actually a different mode setting compared to the so called one / two tube mode?



I don't know what one / two tube mode means in the GEL3N amp but in my amp there is a triode / UL switch. In UL mode it's a lot more powerful. I'm usually in favour of a triode mode because it's sweeter but in my amp, UL mode actually sounded great with more slam and punch.


----------



## nicholas1213

UntilThen said:


> I don't know what one / two tube mode means in the GEL3N amp but in my amp there is a triode / UL switch. In UL mode it's a lot more powerful. I'm usually in favour of a triode mode because it's sweeter but in my amp, UL mode actually sounded great with more slam and punch.



Hmm.. The so called one / two tube mode has the exactly same effect like how you've described, perhaps they are the same thing? I tend to prefer the less powerful mode as like you said, it sounds sweeter and more musical to my ear. With 300ohm headphones (zmf vc and hd650), it hardly passes 12 o'clock. I do not own those harder to drive cans, I bet Gel3n could probably handle those as well with the more powerful mode...


----------



## whirlwind

One tube mode uses only the tubes in the power position....so no caps in the signal path.
Two tube mode uses all of the tubes.

I like one tube mode for  more sensitive headphones...use two tube for all planars.
I will give the IEMs a go in one tube mode.

Looks like Glenn only used the pentode mode in one amp....then switched to the all triode one/two tube mode.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-952


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> One tube mode uses only the tubes in the power position....so no caps in the signal path.
> Two tube mode uses all of the tubes.


Yup. Basically, bypass the driver tubes.



whirlwind said:


> I like one tube mode for more sensitive headphones...use two tube for all planars.


To my ears, other than (obviously) being much quieter in 1-tube mode - the sound is also leaner. So for very warm headphones it could be awesome (assuming they're easy to drive...)



whirlwind said:


> I will give the IEMs a go in one tube mode.


Me too. Hope to get to it before CanJam (leaving home in 51 hours, but who's counting... )



whirlwind said:


> Looks like Glenn only used the pentode mode in one amp....then switched to the all triode one/two tube mode.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-952


Thanks for the link Joe. Interesting... (and since Glenn says Pentode sounds like crap - I do not feel I am missing on anything!)


----------



## nicholas1213

Got my hand on Rad-0 earlier than I thought - gonna pair with Gle3n and see how it goes..


----------



## whirlwind

nicholas1213 said:


> Got my hand on Rad-0 earlier than I thought - gonna pair with Gle3n and see how it goes..


Very nice, please report back with your findings.

Great looking cans.


----------



## UntilThen

nicholas1213 said:


> Got my hand on Rad-0 earlier than I thought - gonna pair with Gle3n and see how it goes..



Now there's a resemblance to LCD5.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Now there's a resemblance to LCD5.


But the price is WAY more sane!
The price of new TOTL headphones/IEMs/amps/DACs seem to be spiraling out of control...


----------



## triod750

Zachik said:


> But the price is WAY more sane!
> The price of new TOTL headphones/IEMs/amps/DACs seem to be spiraling out of control...


The reason for this is all those audiophools. They are the enablers.


----------



## Monsterzero

The VC has all but cured me of wanting another headphone, but the RAD-O is one that I'd def like to hear. Read many great things about it.


----------



## nicholas1213

Monsterzero said:


> The VC has all but cured me of wanting another headphone, but the RAD-O is one that I'd def like to hear. Read many great things about it.


Will do an A/B with VC and report back


----------



## UntilThen

Zachik said:


> But the price is WAY more sane!
> The price of new TOTL headphones/IEMs/amps/DACs seem to be spiraling out of control...



What do you expect. This is head-fi, hifi. An expensive hobby to get into. Perhaps golf is cheaper or skydiving. Try go-karting !


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> What do you expect. This is head-fi, hifi. An expensive hobby to get into.


I expect (or hope) the consumers would tell manufacturers that last year's $3K-4K headphones are already too expensive, so pricing new headphones at $5K-6K will not fly...
I think this hobby is expensive when buying $3K headphones...
At twice that - this hobby is becoming insane IMHO


----------



## UntilThen

HiFiMan kill the market with their 6k Susvara. That's good speakers territory. I agree headphones shouldn't be priced at that level.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> HiFiMan kill the market with their 6k Susvara. That's good speakers territory. I agree headphones shouldn't be priced at that level.


Part of the problem is new competing headphones priced at the same price levels, because the manufacturers are worried that if it would be priced lower at $4K - people (like @bcowen who makes a schiit-load of money mowing your lawn) would think they're not as good or on the same level otherwise they would have been priced the same!
Thus my rant about spiraling out of control...


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> At twice that - this hobby is becoming insane IMHO


Consider the audience.   

I just ran across a $29k power cord, so I suppose it's all relative.  The prices AND the sanity.  LOL!


----------



## UntilThen

Would you not buy the Harbeth Super HL5 instead - same price as the Susvara.  
https://krispyaudio.com.au/products/harbeth-super-hl5-plus-speakers-ex-demo.html


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> Consider the audience.
> 
> I just ran across a $29k power cord, so I suppose it's all relative.  The prices AND the sanity.  LOL!



Whoever use that power cable caused an earthquake in Australia yesterday.


----------



## bcowen

UntilThen said:


> Would you not buy the Harbeth Super HL5 instead - same price as the Susvara.
> https://krispyaudio.com.au/products/harbeth-super-hl5-plus-speakers-ex-demo.html


I wouldn't.  If I was going to spend that kind of change on a pair of speakers, they're going to play bass.  Real bass, not just a vague facsimile thereof.


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> I wouldn't.  If I was going to spend that kind of change on a pair of speakers, they're going to play bass.  Real bass, not just a vague facsimile thereof.



Did you want this?


----------



## bcowen

UntilThen said:


> Did you want this?


LOL!  I would guess that imaging is not their strong suit.  The baffle is the right color though, so they are not without virtue.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> LOL!  I would guess that imaging is not their strong suit.  The baffle is the right color though, so they are not without virtue.


The colour is baffling 🤔😆…


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> Consider the audience.
> 
> I just ran across a $29k power cord, so I suppose it's all relative.  The prices AND the sanity.  LOL!


I cannot but chuckle when once in a while I see someone lists in the classifieds 2 pairs of uber-expensive IEMs ($3K+ each), adding the reason for the sale is for paying the rent or reducing debt... 
Granted, "expensive" is relative. My best buddy thinks I am crazy for paying more than $500 for ANY headphones!! On the other end of the range, some people here have no problem buying 3-4 new TOTL headphones, just to compare them, and then sell the ones they do not like at a HUGE loss.
I guess I am a little perplexed that while inflation rate (and most people's income) has not moved much in the last 2 years or so - some high end (and even mid-tier) gear has gone up 50% (or more) in price!  
Hats off to companies like Schiit (to name one) that despite the crazy price spiraling trends - they keep their products very accessible to most people.


----------



## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> Did you want this?


Get a pair, put each on their opposite side for mirror imaging!…..two out, one in….or….


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> LOL!  I would guess that imaging is not their strong suit.  The baffle is the right color though, so they are not without virtue.



Color and tonality spot on. I would call this my end game.


----------



## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> What do you expect. This is head-fi, hifi. An expensive hobby to get into. Perhaps golf is cheaper or skydiving. Try go-karting !


On a per stroke basis, golf is definitely cheaper…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> On a per stroke basis, golf is definitely cheaper…


Especially for @UntilThen .  I've been trying so hard to teach him that 72 is _not_ a good per-hole score.


----------



## jonathan c

Zachik said:


> I cannot but chuckle when once in a while I see someone lists in the classifieds 2 pairs of uber-expensive IEMs ($3K+ each), adding the reason for the sale is for paying the rent or reducing debt...
> Granted, "expensive" is relative. My best buddy thinks I am crazy for paying more than $500 for ANY headphones!! On the other end of the range, some people here have no problem buying 3-4 new TOTL headphones, just to compare them, and then sell the ones they do not like at a HUGE loss.
> I guess I am a little perplexed that while inflation rate (and most people's income) has not moved much in the last 2 years or so - some high end (and even mid-tier) gear has gone up 50% (or more) in price!
> Hats off to companies like Schiit (to name one) that despite the crazy price spiraling trends - they keep their products very accessible to most people.


I agree. It is one thing to design, engineer, produce on a _ne plus ultra_ basis and quite another to execute the best design, engineering, production to a price point. _Ars est artem celare._


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Especially for @UntilThen .  I've been trying so hard to teach him that 72 is _not_ a good per-hole score.


I thought that UT played until he shot 72 - however few holes that took…


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> Especially for @UntilThen .  I've been trying so hard to teach him that 72 is _not_ a good per-hole score.



Don't you understand. I try not to get too many hole in one because if I do that means I have less chance of hitting the balls !!!


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Consider the audience.
> 
> I just ran across a $29k power cord ** so I suppose it's all relative.  The prices AND the sanity.  LOL!


** did the plugs come with it?


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> ** did the plugs come with it?


Hmmmmm.  I _think_ so, but I didn't ask specifically when I gave them my credit card number.


----------



## mordy

bcowen said:


> Hmmmmm.  I _think_ so, but I didn't ask specifically when I gave them my credit card number.


Free shipping?


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> Color and tonality spot on. I would call this my end game.




Hmmm...... ただならぬ means extraordinary, incomparable, and
高音 means high-pitched tone, and
質 means quality, nature, character.

But looking at the size of those speakers, I would think it is the bass and fundamental tones that are extraordinary. But then, they're not marketing this to poor folks like me!  lol


----------



## jonathan c (Sep 22, 2021)

UntilThen said:


> Don't you understand. I try not to get too many hole in one because if I do that means I have less chance of hitting the balls !!!


“I have less chance of hitting the (golf) balls” _on each swing_?….


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Hmmm...... ただならぬ means extraordinary, incomparable, and
> 高音 means high-pitched tone, and
> 質 means quality, nature, character.
> 
> But looking at the size of those speakers, I would think it is the bass and fundamental tones that are extraordinary. But then, they're not marketing this to poor folks like me!  lol



How about this? All through my LCD4 and Odyssey of course.


----------



## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> But the price is WAY more sane!
> The price of new TOTL headphones/IEMs/amps/DACs seem to be spiraling out of control...


I know right...at some point , it is like this is where a fool and his money part.

I have loved all of the Audeze headphones that I have heard....bass....smooth mids and a treble that is not too extended making the music so darn musical.
I wonder if the RAD-0 has these traits, knowing who made them makes me think so.

I agree the RAD-0 seems to be a decent deal , and more so when comparing the price with some other headphones.

There are many tubes that are priced for being rare....more so then how they sound, not that they don't sound good...but you know.

You hang around head-fi long enough and it can be pretty wallet draining....LOL.


----------



## nicholas1213 (Sep 23, 2021)

whirlwind said:


> I wonder if the RAD-0 has these traits, knowing who made them makes me think so.



I am listening the RAD-0 right now with the Gel3n amp in one tube mode - have not gone into critical listening as the pair that I got (used pair but it is just like brand new) has less than 50hrs on it, will put more hours into it before doing some A/B with VC. Too bad I do not have the lcd-x anymore to do a direct comparison as well.

If I were to put some initial impression on the RAD-0 comparing to VC - they are more neutral and have a flatter and cleaner presentation, definitely more polite sounding, not as exciting as the VC, and less 'immersive' or the 3D-ness. But boy both high and low extends really well on RAD-0, especially the low end, I find the rad-0 goes deeper, perhaps due it being planar, and it reminds me a little bit of the lcd-x (which I had sold earlier, but I remembered lcd-x slam harder). 

One thing that strikes me the most is the mid / vocal of RAD-0 - it is more intimate, stands out more from the rest of instruments or background music, and it just sounds so lush and sweet (mid wins me over the VC). Also, I find the RAD-0 seems to perform slightly better on imaging and detail retrieval, but not in anyway causing any fatigue. 

I guess both brings different kind of enjoyment to the table. VC being the more fun, immersive and hard-slamming sounding pair, compared to RAD-0 which is more refine and sweet sounding especially the vocal part. Both are really musical. 

I guess they should compliment each others well. To me VC still has the 'wow' factor more than the RAD-0. I will put more hours into the RAD-0 and do a more detailed A/B between both. Shouldn't be too difficult to describe as they sound more different than similar.


----------



## Zachik

nicholas1213 said:


> I am listening the RAD-0 right now with the Gel3n amp in one tube mode


Interesting - I would have guessed you'd need more juice and thus have to use 2-tube mode for planars...


----------



## nicholas1213

Zachik said:


> Interesting - I would have guessed you'd need more juice and thus have to use 2-tube mode for planars...



Hmm the volume knob is at around 10 to 11 o'clock on Gel3n on both VC and also the RAD-0. I tried the 2-tube mode and it can hardly pass 9 o'clock before it gets too loud. I constantly find the 2-tube mode is a bit too aggressive which thus make it less refine, be it on the VC or the RAD-0.


----------



## whirlwind

nicholas1213 said:


> I am listening the RAD-0 right now with the Gel3n amp in one tube mode - have not gone into critical listening as the pair that I got (used pair but it is just like brand new) has less than 50hrs on it, will put more hours into it before doing some A/B with VC. Too bad I do not have the lcd-x anymore to do a direct comparison as well.
> 
> If I were to put some initial impression on the RAD-0 comparing to VC - they are more neutral and have a flatter and cleaner presentation, definitely more polite sounding, not as exciting as the VC, and less 'immersive' or the 3D-ness. But boy both high and low extends really well on RAD-0, especially the low end, I find the rad-0 goes deeper, perhaps due it being planar, and it reminds me a little bit of the lcd-x (which I had sold earlier, but I remembered lcd-x slam harder).
> 
> ...


The RAD-0 must be very easy to drive or you must be a very low level listener.

I am listening to my LCD-4 in two tube mode and this is where my volume knob is positioned.





In one tube mode both of my planars , which are the LCD-4 and the ZMF Ori lose most of their impact and dynamics.

Different stokes for different folks , I guess.


----------



## nicholas1213 (Sep 23, 2021)

whirlwind said:


> The RAD-0 must be very easy to drive or you must be a very low level listener.
> 
> I am listening to my LCD-4 in two tube mode and this is where my volume knob is positioned.
> 
> ...



Wow! Perhaps the lcd-4 need much more juice? Yes the RAD-0 is extremely easy to drive, even phone output alone from my LG V30 is plenty loud already at around 70-80% of volume. 

Have you tried VC on the Gel3n? On one-tube mode VC it is also around 10-11 o'clock. I tend to think I listen to moderate level, well..

Also, may I ask the additional knob on your Gel3n, are they like input selector (assuming you have multiple input?) And one more knob?

I have switched back to VC now after 2-3 hrs of listening on RAD-0 and still enjoying it very much! The clamp force on RAD-0 is real and I am having hotspot on top of my head. VC is much more comfortable.

Edited: The dac out from my hugo2 connecting to Gel3n is almost like 95% of the hugo2 max volume.


----------



## leftside

Super low impedance on those RAD headphones. 29 ohms. Very interesting for a planar… In theory are not a good match for an OTL amp.


----------



## whirlwind

nicholas1213 said:


> Wow! Perhaps the lcd-4 need much more juice? Yes the RAD-0 is extremely easy to drive, even phone output alone from my LG V30 is plenty loud already at around 70-80% of volume.
> 
> Have you tried VC on the Gel3n? On one-tube mode VC it is also around 10-11 o'clock. I tend to think I listen to moderate level, well..
> 
> ...


One tube mode will power LCD-4 but the volume knob is close to max.....I imagine 95% of the people that listen to headphones would find this to be fine however.
The plus side to this is the pitch black back round.

I like the VC in one tube mode .....Ori and LCD-4  I prefer the two tube mode


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> Super low impedance on those RAD headphones. 29 ohms. Very interesting for a planar… In theory are not a good match for an OTL amp.


 Yeah only 29 Ohms for RAD-0

50 Ohms for Ori

200 Ohm version LCD-4


----------



## jonathan c

whirlwind said:


> Yeah only 29 Ohms for RAD-0
> 
> 50 Ohms for Ori
> 
> 200 Ohm version LCD-4


The LCD-5 will be only 14 ohms with 90 dB/mw !  (==> 108.5 dB/v)


----------



## Monsterzero

jonathan c said:


> The LCD-5 will be only 14 ohms with 90 dB/mw !  (==> 108.5 dB/v)


that will be a b***h to drive. Not as inefficient as the HE6, but still not easy.


----------



## bcowen

leftside said:


> Super low impedance on those RAD headphones. 29 ohms. Very interesting for a planar… In theory are not a good match for an OTL amp.


My (previous) Dan Clark Aeon 2's were 13 ohm, and both of the OTL's I have gasped for air at even moderate volumes.  The Lyr 3 (hybrid) was a nice mate for them though at over 9 watts/channel into that load.  I like the OTL's better with proper high impedance 'phones, but that's a preference thing.


----------



## nicholas1213

leftside said:


> Super low impedance on those RAD headphones. 29 ohms. Very interesting for a planar… In theory are not a good match for an OTL amp.



Yeah generally OTL is not suggested for planar. I can't remember on which page that Glenn mentioned this Gel3n will actually pairs well with planar. Gle3n is SET amp? Pardon my terminology, I should go back to tube amp 101. 

Gel3n drove my lcd-x fantastically. I believe @whirlwind driving his lcd-4 using the Gel3n with fantastic result too!


----------



## gibosi

nicholas1213 said:


> Yeah generally OTL is not suggested for planar. I can't remember on which page that Glenn mentioned this Gel3n will actually pairs well with planar. Gle3n is SET amp? Pardon my terminology, I should go back to tube amp 101.
> 
> Gel3n drove my lcd-x fantastically. I believe @whirlwind driving his lcd-4 using the Gel3n with fantastic result too!



The GEL3N is not an OTL. It uses output transformers for impedance matching and thus, low Z headphones and/or speakers are not a problem.


----------



## leftside

nicholas1213 said:


> Yeah generally OTL is not suggested for planar. I can't remember on which page that Glenn mentioned this Gel3n will actually pairs well with planar. Gle3n is SET amp? Pardon my terminology, I should go back to tube amp 101.
> 
> Gel3n drove my lcd-x fantastically. I believe @whirlwind driving his lcd-4 using the Gel3n with fantastic result too!


I had an OTL headphone amp custom made by 1101 Audio (Mischa) for my LCD-4, but it's a bit of a one-off with a totally crazy separate power supply that handles 6 power tubes. Even though this amp has a very low impedance output (for an OTL amp), and it does also drive the Abyss very well, I think even this OTL amp might struggle with the LCD-5. The Glenn 300B or GEL3N should be fine. I used to have an HE6 and the Glenn 300B could drive those without breaking a sweat.


----------



## Zachik

nicholas1213 said:


> Gle3n is SET amp?


Yes.


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 24, 2021)

All of my IEMs are very cheap, but it is still pretty amazing the sound you get from an under $50 IEM.
This is the 1st time I have ever tried IEMs on a desktop amp.
One tube mode is fantastic, black as midnight back round. I normally used these IEMs for work and my walks and light workouts.
Trying this I may get the itch at some point to try some better IEMs.....I am not sure what the specs are for the KZ ZS10 Pro are, but they sound great for the small amount of cash.





I have been listening to a lot of these guys lately...been sort of addicted for a few months now.


----------



## nicholas1213

whirlwind said:


>



Hey I have been wanting to ask (asked in earlier post but probably too many text) - the additional knob on your Gel3n, apart from volume, what are they? Could it be input selector?


----------



## whirlwind (Sep 24, 2021)

nicholas1213 said:


> Hey I have been wanting to ask (asked in earlier post but probably too many text) - the additional knob on your Gel3n, apart from volume, what are they? Could it be input selector?



Yes, input selector and one/two tube mode selector

If you ever want adapters @Deyan  can hook you up.

@Zachik  ....does your amp use all 4 power tubes in one tube mode?


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> @Zachik ....does your amp use all 4 power tubes in one tube mode?


Yes. 
I can leave 2 of the sockets empty if I want 2 power tubes. Never tried it, though.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Still having a hard time digesting the news about the LCD-5.  Talk about a change of priorities when it comes to tuning.  I suspect the SBAF folks will love it but it's going to be controversial around these parts.


----------



## leftside

Xcalibur255 said:


> Still having a hard time digesting the news about the LCD-5.  Talk about a change of priorities when it comes to tuning.  I suspect the SBAF folks will love it but it's going to be controversial around these parts.


I'll see if I can take a listen when they come out. Some friends of mine have a headphone business and they sell Audeze. They took a set of LCD-4 to demo at a show in Vegas a few years ago, and this was the set I purchased.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Honestly I still enjoy my pre-Fazor LCD-2 just fine for the most part.  I think I've had them 10 years now, time really flies.  They work really well with the Glenn 45, far more so than one might expect.  It's an unusual kind of synergy, hard to describe with words, but it can really draw you into the music.


----------



## Monsterzero

I had a pre fazor LCD-2.2  Ridiculous sub bass, but i sold it to fund the Atticus.


----------



## whirlwind

I had a pre fazor LCD-3. Loved it and eventually grabbed a 4.

I never owned an LCD 2 but I have heard it and liked it as well.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

nicholas1213 said:


> Yeah generally OTL is not suggested for planar. I can't remember on which page that Glenn mentioned this Gel3n will actually pairs well with planar. Gle3n is SET amp? Pardon my terminology, I should go back to tube amp 101.
> 
> Gel3n drove my lcd-x fantastically. I believe @whirlwind driving his lcd-4 using the Gel3n with fantastic result too!



Was your GEL3N bought secondhand, @nicholas1213 ?  If so I'm surprised someone would part with one.


----------



## nicholas1213 (Sep 24, 2021)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Was your GEL3N bought secondhand, @nicholas1213 ?  If so I'm surprised someone would part with one.



Yes I bought it used from a local seller staying just within 5km from my place. How lucky I was! The only reason he put up his Gel3n for sale is because he is using his GOTL most of the time..


----------



## nicholas1213

whirlwind said:


> Yes, input selector and one/two tube mode selector
> 
> If you ever want adapters @Deyan  can hook you up.



Thank you @whirlwind ! Yes in fact I just bought two el3n to el34 adapter from Deyan and they are on their way!


----------



## nicholas1213

whirlwind said:


> In one tube mode both of my planars , which are the LCD-4 and the ZMF Ori lose most of their impact and dynamics.


By the way I just switched to two tube mode on the RAD-0, and I think I like the two tube mode better on the RAD-0. Volume knob is now at a merely 8'oclock position. It brings out more body and dymanics, it has more weight to the music.


----------



## leftside (Sep 26, 2021)

Not sure if anyone is interested in these for the GEL3N amp, but these are great tubes. Two are the earlier type from Eindhoven with the ring/halo getter and the other is from Brussels with the twin smaller ring getter. The two Eindhoven are a very close relation to the metal base EL34. I've bought from this seller before. The only issue... the 2 adapters are probably going to cost you more than these tubes.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/185054295740


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> I didn't really care for the RCA 5R4GY, but hope to try Brimar, Philips and maybe Fivre. On eBay they are getting to be fairly expensive, so I am biding my time until one pops up cheap.


Yes, I realize @gibosi made this post five years ago, but has anyone else tried a WW2 era RCA 5r4gy in the Glenn?
Upon recs from another forum I picked up one for my DAC. Brent Jesse claims its quite close to a WE 422a in sound. Ive never had the pleasure of hearing a 422a, but this rectifier sounds killer on my DAC.


----------



## heliosphann

Picked up some adapters recently to use with my Glenn. Anyone have any good tube recommendations (and possible PT pairings) for 76, 7n7 or 6J5/12J5 tubes? Thanks!


----------



## gibosi

heliosphann said:


> Picked up some adapters recently to use with my Glenn. Anyone have any good tube recommendations (and possible PT pairings) for 76, 7n7 or 6J5/12J5 tubes? Thanks!



In my experience, tubes manufactured by the same company tend to sound the same or very similar. So start with the manufacturers you like.

Also, the vast majority of 7n7 were manufactured by Sylvania and a much smaller number were manufactured by National Union. Start with the tall bottles. Further, some folks believe that certain Sylvania 7N7 sound better than others. You might want to search for "Frankentube."


----------



## heliosphann

gibosi said:


> In my experience, tubes manufactured by the same company tend to sound the same or very similar. So start with the manufacturers you like.
> 
> Also, the vast majority of 7n7 were manufactured by Sylvania and a much smaller number were manufactured by National Union. Start with the tall bottles. Further, some folks believe that certain Sylvania 7N7 sound better than others. You might want to search for "Frankentube."


Thanks as always for your tube knowledge!


----------



## bcowen

gibosi said:


> In my experience, tubes manufactured by the same company tend to sound the same or very similar. So start with the manufacturers you like.
> 
> Also, the vast majority of 7n7 were manufactured by Sylvania and a much smaller number were manufactured by National Union. Start with the tall bottles. Further, some folks believe that certain Sylvania 7N7 sound better than others. You might want to search for "Frankentube."


A $5 Frankentube that's scarily similar (internally) to a $100 6SN7W.


----------



## gibosi

National Union 7N7, to the right, and Sylvania, to the left. It's easy to differentiate between them when you see them side-by-side.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Kind of a weird general rule of thumb I have found with Sylvania tubes is that the bigger the getter flash is (meaning the more it extends down the sides of the glass) the better it seems to sound.  I doubt it has anything to do with the getter itself, it just seems like the ones made to this design or at this factory seem to be their better tubes.


----------



## Dogmatrix

gibosi said:


> National Union 7N7, to the right, and Sylvania, to the left. It's easy to differentiate between them when you see them side-by-side.


Factoid , there were several 7n7 tubes , very likely National Union on board the B-29 Enola Gay used in repeater amplifiers for the control servo motors


----------



## nicholas1213

nicholas1213 said:


> Got my hand on Rad-0 earlier than I thought - gonna pair with Gle3n and see how it goes..





nicholas1213 said:


> Will do an A/B with VC and report back



After 1-2 weeks of listening back and forth between the VC and RAD-0 using Gel3n (1-tube mode on VC and 2-tube mode with RAD-0), maybe it is because that Gel3n pairs better with planar? While VC is excellent on Gel3n, I find RAD-0 closer to my preference. Loss a bit of comfort and fun factor (the slam), but RAD-0 sounded more refine with greater treble and bass extension, and especially the vocal is more lush and stand out more. Listening to VC, I tend to focus to those instruments, e.g. wow the electric guitar sounds so good, the bass drum, snare, cymbals, they are so realistic, the accompanying violin is just right beside you, there's a cohesiveness throughout the music, together with the vocalist. 

Listening to RAD-0 gave me a different presentation, the vocal is the main spotlight, and the rest falls in their place to compliment the vocal. Both of them are almost on par in detail retrieval with different presentation. With a heavy heart I had let go the VC (perhaps hoping to come back with some stabilized set one day), and to fund for the next tier cans. 

I've seen Gel3n paired with 1266 with good result, not sure if there's anyone tried the Susvara on Gel3n? Based on the gut feeling Gel3n should have enough juice, but not too sure about the synergy between the two.


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 3, 2021)

nicholas1213 said:


> After 1-2 weeks of listening back and forth between the VC and RAD-0 using Gel3n (1-tube mode on VC and 2-tube mode with RAD-0), maybe it is because that Gel3n pairs better with planar? While VC is excellent on Gel3n, I find RAD-0 closer to my preference. Loss a bit of comfort and fun factor (the slam), but RAD-0 sounded more refine with greater treble and bass extension, and especially the vocal is more lush and stand out more. Listening to VC, I tend to focus to those instruments, e.g. wow the electric guitar sounds so good, the bass drum, snare, cymbals, they are so realistic, the accompanying violin is just right beside you, there's a cohesiveness throughout the music, together with the vocalist.
> 
> Listening to RAD-0 gave me a different presentation, the vocal is the main spotlight, and the rest falls in their place to compliment the vocal. Both of them are almost on par in detail retrieval with different presentation. With a heavy heart I had let go the VC (perhaps hoping to come back with some stabilized set one day), and to fund for the next tier cans.
> 
> I've seen Gel3n paired with 1266 with good result, not sure if there's anyone tried the Susvara on Gel3n? Based on the gut feeling Gel3n should have enough juice, but not too sure about the synergy between the two.



I like my VC with the GEL3N, but I like it on the GOTL better....better match to my ears. I have liked all of the planars that I have tried on the GEL3N, again, better match to my ears.
It is not all about the power either...my GS-X mk2 puts out more power, but that does not mean that it sounds better, way more to it than that.
There may be some headphones that need the extra juice, but for vast majority of headphones the needing more power is more of a wish than a need IMO.
My dream is for ZMF to eventually make a planar


----------



## gibosi

On the chance that someone here might be hankering to manufacture their own vacuum tubes, today just might be your lucky day! 

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/msg/d/providence-rca-vacuum-tube/7389317693.html


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> On the chance that someone here might be hankering to manufacture their own vacuum tubes, today just might be your lucky day!
> 
> https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/msg/d/providence-rca-vacuum-tube/7389317693.html


WOW! I could totally see @L0rdGwyn doing this


----------



## triod750

L0rdGwyn and Gibosi would be a perfectly matched and balanced pair!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> On the chance that someone here might be hankering to manufacture their own vacuum tubes, today just might be your lucky day!
> 
> https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/msg/d/providence-rca-vacuum-tube/7389317693.html



WOW!!

I wonder what year the gear last made a working vacuum tube!   Can you imagine?!


----------



## jonathan c

triod750 said:


> L0rdGwyn and Gibosi would be a perfectly matched and balanced pair!!


Does that make bcowen & […..] an unbalanced pair?…


----------



## triod750

jonathan c said:


> Does that make bcowen & […..] an unbalanced pair?…


I guess bcowen can balance anybody but himself...


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> On the chance that someone here might be hankering to manufacture their own vacuum tubes, today just might be your lucky day!
> 
> https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/msg/d/providence-rca-vacuum-tube/7389317693.html


This is great....after you get it, I will have a few request for you


----------



## myphone

Needing help figuring out WE 422a rectifier tube voltage drop. 

Recently I acquired a WE 422a. It tests well and functions well in a 421a amp. 

I have read 422a is a direct replacement of 5u4, but could find voltage drop information on its spec sheet. 5U4G has voltage drop of 44. 

Thank you


----------



## gibosi

According to this Western Electric data sheet:

http://westernelectric.sectorlink.org/static/library/specifications/tubes/422A.pdf

The voltage drop is 26 volts


----------



## myphone

Oh, thank you, Gibosi. I have read the spec sheet many time. Some how missed it.


----------



## whirlwind

I have been listening to my planars for the last couple of weeks.
I plugged my dynamics back in a couple of days ago.

I wish I would have bought another set of these Fivre 6C5G when I had the chance when the price was pretty good.
They are very nice sounding tubes.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> I have been listening to my planars for the last couple of weeks.
> I plugged my dynamics back in a couple of days ago.
> 
> I wish I would have bought another set of these Fivre 6C5G when I had the chance when the price was pretty good.
> They are very nice sounding tubes.



Yes those are great tubes. The ST type are indeed tough to find these days. Langrex still has a few black and brown base in the straight glass.


----------



## gibosi (Oct 18, 2021)

I'm following a more prosaic road, not as exotic as many others here, and am now enjoying an "All American" roll. 

Using 6B-7 as output tubes, 4 or 6, allows the use of 5U4G rectifiers. So today, a National Union 5U4G, four Tung-Sol 6BX7 and a pair of Raytheon Type 76. It sounds good, but I haven't had the Raytheons in all that long. Before, I was listening to Ken-Rad Type 76, and I think I prefer them. But to be fair to the Raytheons, will keep listening.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I'm following a more prosaic road, not as exotic as many others here, and am now enjoying an "All American" roll.
> 
> Using 6B-7 as output tubes, 4 or 6, allows the use of 5U4G rectifiers. So today, a National Union 5U4G, four Tung-Sol 6BX7 and a pair of Raytheon Type 76. It sounds good, but I haven't had the Raytheons in all that long. Before, I was listening to Ken-Rad Type 76, and I think I prefer them. But to be fair to the Raytheons, will keep listening.


For the sake of global peace I think you should roll US, Russian and Chinese tubes together. Have you tried Linlai tubes?


----------



## gibosi

I have never tried Linlai, but I do have a 1957 Shuguang 5U4G which is pretty good. And I could roll in a Melz 1578 and keep the Tung-Sol 6BX7. Have to try this some day. lol


----------



## nicholas1213

Recently tried to pair Susvara with Gel3n tube amp, shall report back after some extensive listening. Do not have anything more powerful to push yet as of now.


----------



## nicholas1213 (Oct 19, 2021)

Just some initial impression of first night listening to Susvara paired to Glenn el3n tube.

Well, it is nothing short of impressive and breath-taking moment. Firstly, susvara itself is seriously a God-tier pair of headphones compared to all my previous cans - ZMF VC, Rosson RAD-0, LCD-X etc. With Gel3n under two tube mode and volume knob at around 12 o'clock, I would say it drives Susvara with full authority - superb dynamic, deep and hard slamming taunting bass, excellent separation and imaging, buttery smooth vocal and high. I know a lot of Susvara owner paired it with speaker amp, but till then, I must say I enjoy every single bit of it coming out from Gle3n so far, and don't think it is underdrive in any single way.

I am sticking to this setup for a little longer while, shall there be an opportunity to compare a speaker amp, I will do an A/B comparison and see how does Gle3n stacks up against speaker amp


----------



## whirlwind

nicholas1213 said:


> Just some initial impression of first night listening to Susvara paired to Glenn el3n tube.
> 
> Well, it is nothing short of impressive and breath-taking moment. Firstly, susvara itself is seriously a God-tier pair of headphones compared to all my previous cans - ZMF VC, Rosson RAD-0, LCD-X etc. With Gel3n under two tube mode and volume knob at around 12 o'clock, I would say it drives Susvara with full authority - superb dynamic, deep and hard slamming taunting bass, excellent separation and imaging, buttery smooth vocal and high. I know a lot of Susvara owner paired it with speaker amp, but till then, I must say I enjoy every single bit of it coming out from Gle3n so far, and don't think it is underdrive in any single way.
> 
> I am sticking to this setup for a little longer while, shall there be an opportunity to compare a speaker amp, I will do an A/B comparison.


Very nice and congrats on that headphone...I bet this sound heavenly


----------



## gibosi (Oct 21, 2021)

gibosi said:


> I'm following a more prosaic road, not as exotic as many others here, and am now enjoying an "All American" roll.
> 
> Using 6B-7 as output tubes, 4 or 6, allows the use of 5U4G rectifiers. So today, a National Union 5U4G, four Tung-Sol 6BX7 and a pair of Raytheon Type 76. It sounds good, but I haven't had the Raytheons in all that long. Before, I was listening to Ken-Rad Type 76, and I think I prefer them. But to be fair to the Raytheons, will keep listening.



A little update. I have swapped in an old Ken-Rad 5Z3 rectifier and a pair of NU Type 76. This sounds good to me, and I think I will live with this for a while.


----------



## heliosphann

Anyone using the GOTL with ZMF Auteur's? I need to listen to mine more, and was wondering what everyone's favorite tubes are to pair with them.


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> Anyone using the GOTL with ZMF Auteur's? I need to listen to mine more, and was wondering what everyone's favorite tubes are to pair with them.


@L0rdGwyn  had this combo for awhile I know....not sure what his favorite tube combo was that he used.
I heard the Auteur on my GOTL before , but it was brief and years ago, not sure what tubes were even in the amp but I remember liking the overall sound as much as my HD800 and I liked the bass better on the Auteur.


----------



## NickT23

nicholas1213 said:


> Just some initial impression of first night listening to Susvara paired to Glenn el3n tube.
> 
> Well, it is nothing short of impressive and breath-taking moment. Firstly, susvara itself is seriously a God-tier pair of headphones compared to all my previous cans - ZMF VC, Rosson RAD-0, LCD-X etc. With Gel3n under two tube mode and volume knob at around 12 o'clock, I would say it drives Susvara with full authority - superb dynamic, deep and hard slamming taunting bass, excellent separation and imaging, buttery smooth vocal and high. I know a lot of Susvara owner paired it with speaker amp, but till then, I must say I enjoy every single bit of it coming out from Gle3n so far, and don't think it is underdrive in any single way.
> 
> I am sticking to this setup for a little longer while, shall there be an opportunity to compare a speaker amp, I will do an A/B comparison and see how does Gle3n stacks up against speaker amp


Incredible setup... however did you manage to keep your car. Kinda cost my entire house.


----------



## NickT23

Monsterzero said:


> I had a pre fazor LCD-2.2  Ridiculous sub bass, but i sold it to fund the Atticus.


Why Atticus over the LCD 2 ? Both are different, one is mid bass, thick warmth and one is open, accurate-warmth.


----------



## Zachik

NickT23 said:


> Incredible setup... however did you manage to keep your car. *Kinda cost my entire house.*


Where do you live???


----------



## Monsterzero

NickT23 said:


> Why Atticus over the LCD 2 ? Both are different, one is mid bass, thick warmth and one is open, accurate-warmth.


Why? I pretty much have to sell something to get something, otherwise my wife will castrate me.


----------



## heliosphann

whirlwind said:


> @L0rdGwyn  had this combo for awhile I know....not sure what his favorite tube combo was that he used.
> I heard the Auteur on my GOTL before , but it was brief and years ago, not sure what tubes were even in the amp but I remember liking the overall sound as much as my HD800 and I liked the bass better on the Auteur.


Thanks. I've got tons and tons and tons of tube combos I can try. Just being lazy.   

Guess I just need to start plugging some in and find out!


----------



## heliosphann

Was digging through my tubs of tubes and found a pair of unused Centron 6336's. Powered them on and it's like baby popcorn going off.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> Was digging through my tubs of tubes and found a pair of unused Centron 6336's. Powered them on and it's like baby popcorn going off.


Those 6336 tubes are great for low impedance headphones.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Those 6336 tubes are great for low impedance headphones.


I'll try some more, but my Aeon Flow's sound horrible from them.

Ended up going with the 6336, Sylvania 6SN7W Metal base and Raytheon 5CU4. Sounds amazing with the HD580 and Auteur.


----------



## NickT23

Zachik said:


> Where do you live???


Hi I live in a developing country, decent house. Most of us are poor but some of us can be considered as audiophiles. Normally, I can afford $5000 or more gears but that have to be my ever last gear as long as possible. I cannot afford like you people owning five 5k cans with another 5k amp/dac. At least one high end stuff, and thats it for me.


----------



## NickT23

Monsterzero said:


> Why? I pretty much have to sell something to get something, otherwise my wife will castrate me.


Ya I know that... but if you have the choice, why Atticus over LCD 2 ?!!!


----------



## Smallpie

NickT23 said:


> Ya I know that... but if you have the choice, why Atticus over LCD 2 ?!!!


I’d also take the Atticus over LCD 2 anyday! In addition,  Every ZMF can I used with the GOTL was a great match!


----------



## Monsterzero

NickT23 said:


> Ya I know that... but if you have the choice, why Atticus over LCD 2 ?!!!


The Atticus has much, much, much better mids vs. LCD-2
I liked the sub bass of the Audeze, but I listen to more music where great mids are important vs music that requires epic sub bass. Besides the Sennheiser HD250 does what the Audeze does, does it better, and its high impedance which means the GOTL rocks it.


----------



## NickT23

Akiravelvet said:


> I’d also take the Atticus over LCD 2 anyday! In addition,  Every ZMF can I used with the GOTL was a great match!


Ya same but they are both different. Warm thick lush, insane slam while other is more linear-refine sounding, wider due to open back design, both warm though. More of a complimentary of cans and which do you have and like.


----------



## NickT23

Monsterzero said:


> The Atticus has much, much, much better mids vs. LCD-2
> I liked the sub bass of the Audeze, but I listen to more music where great mids are important vs music that requires epic sub bass. Besides the Sennheiser HD250 does what the Audeze does, does it better, and its high impedance which means the GOTL rocks it.


I see make sense... Though the Atticus not much sub bass rumble, can you live with it ? The HD250 is more sub bass orientated ?


----------



## Zachik

NickT23 said:


> Hi I live in a developing country, decent house. Most of us are poor but some of us can be considered as audiophiles. Normally, I can afford $5000 or more gears but that have to be my ever last gear as long as possible. I cannot afford like you people owning five 5k cans with another 5k amp/dac. At least one high end stuff, and thats it for me.


To clarify, I was NOT judging - just surprised that houses so cheap exist anywhere!


----------



## mordy

NickT23 said:


> I see make sense... Though the Atticus not much sub bass rumble, can you live with it ? The HD250 is more sub bass orientated ?


The HD250 has great sub bass and bass -LCD territory. But discontinued a long time ago. IMHO more comfortable and lighter than my HD650 as well.
If you have patience you can sometimes find them at a good price.


----------



## Monsterzero (Oct 25, 2021)

NickT23 said:


> I see make sense... Though the Atticus not much sub bass rumble, can you live with it ? The HD250 is more sub bass orientated ?





mordy said:


> The HD250 has great sub bass and bass -LCD territory. But discontinued a long time ago. IMHO more comfortable and lighter than my HD650 as well.
> If you have patience you can sometimes find them at a good price.


Yes. The sub bass on the HD250 is phenomenol. As Mordy said, LCD territory. I also prefer the mids and highs on the 250 as well, and as a bonus, they're cheaper too.

I sold my Atticus to fund my Auteur, then sold my Auteur to fund my VC.
The lack of sub bass on the Atticus didnt really bother me for reasons I listed above, but if sub bass is huge to you I'd suggest the Eikon or Verite closed (or open), and if those are too much $$$, then go find a HD250


----------



## Monsterzero

A bit steep on the price, but they arent easy to find.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/sennheiser-hd250-linear-1-600-ohm.12901/


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> A bit steep on the price, but they arent easy to find.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/sennheiser-hd250-linear-1-600-ohm.12901/


Here is a handyman fixerupper:
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/sennheiser-hd250-linear-ii.8405/


----------



## nicholas1213

whirlwind said:


> My personal favorites would be in this order. Take into account that my favorite music is guitar heavy
> Mullard EL34
> Mullard EL37
> GEC KT66
> ...



Hi @whirlwind , I have just gotten myself the el34 adapter from Deyan and a pair of mullard EL34 xf2 double O. Just want to seek some guidance on GEL3N amp - the output tube to be replaced are the ones located at the back right (beside the rectifier tube)? Not the front pair right?

Thanks a lot in advance and cant wait to try it out with Susvara!


----------



## whirlwind (Oct 26, 2021)

nicholas1213 said:


> Hi @whirlwind , I have just gotten myself the el34 adapter from Deyan and a pair of mullard EL34 xf2 double O. Just want to seek some guidance on GEL3N amp - the output tube to be replaced are the ones located at the back right (beside the rectifier tube)? Not the front pair right?
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance and cant wait to try it out with Susvara!


Yes, you are correct. Enjoy those tubes


----------



## nicholas1213

whirlwind said:


> Yes, you are correct. Enjoy those tubes



Thanks a lot for your help! Can't wait!


----------



## NickT23

Monsterzero said:


> Yes. The sub bass on the HD250 is phenomenol. As Mordy said, LCD territory. I also prefer the mids and highs on the 250 as well, and as a bonus, they're cheaper too.
> 
> I sold my Atticus to fund my Auteur, then sold my Auteur to fund my VC.
> The lack of sub bass on the Atticus didnt really bother me for reasons I listed above, but if sub bass is huge to you I'd suggest the Eikon or Verite closed (or open), and if those are too much $$$, then go find a HD250


Already decided to go for Aelous and Verite Open. My heart belong to VO over VC dont know why. VO sub bass should very good, no roll off with that linear low end rumble.


----------



## leftside

nicholas1213 said:


> Thanks a lot for your help! Can't wait!


Going to sound great!


----------



## gibosi

gibosi said:


> I'm following a more prosaic road, not as exotic as many others here, and am now enjoying an "All American" roll.
> 
> Using 6B-7 as output tubes, 4 or 6, allows the use of 5U4G rectifiers. So today, a National Union 5U4G, four Tung-Sol 6BX7 and a pair of Raytheon Type 76. It sounds good, but I haven't had the Raytheons in all that long. Before, I was listening to Ken-Rad Type 76, and I think I prefer them. But to be fair to the Raytheons, will keep listening.



Thought I'd roll in a pair of EL42, labeled Mazda Medium (but actually manufactured by La Radiotechnique in Suresnes, France), with a Ken-Rad rectifier and a quad of Tung-Sol 6BX7. I didn't know what to expect and I am very pleasantly surprised. 

And thought I'd use Google's "Night Sight" to make it look purdy.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Thought I'd roll in a pair of EL42, labeled Mazda Medium (but actually manufactured by La Radiotechnique in Suresnes, France), with a Ken-Rad rectifier and a quad of Tung-Sol 6BX7. I didn't know what to expect and I am very pleasantly surprised.
> 
> And thought I'd use Google's "Night Sight" to make it look purdy.


I do not own any Ken Rad rectifiers, but I sure enjoy their SN7 and 6/12J5 tubes.
How would you describe them, I may want to spring for one, should be reasonably priced.

Sure miss Stan at ESRC....bet he would have has some NOS ones at a good price.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> I do not own any Ken Rad rectifiers, but I sure enjoy their SN7 and 6/12J5 tubes.
> How would you describe them, I may want to spring for one, should be reasonably priced.
> 
> Sure miss Stan at ESRC....bet he would have has some NOS ones at a good price.


Does anybody know what happened with the hundreds of thousands of tubes at ESRC?
The last I heard was that there was  litigation about the inheritance.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Does anybody know what happened with the hundreds of thousands of tubes at ESRC?
> The last I heard was that there was  litigation about the inheritance.


No I have not heard mordy....was hopeful that it would keep going, but it sure does not look good or else it is going to take years to get things sorted.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I do not own any Ken Rad rectifiers, but I sure enjoy their SN7 and 6/12J5 tubes.
> How would you describe them, I may want to spring for one, should be reasonably priced.


Ive often wondered the same thing. I asked Brent Jesse about Ken Rad rectifiers and he said he rarely had them, but offered no opinion on their sound.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> I do not own any Ken Rad rectifiers, but I sure enjoy their SN7 and 6/12J5 tubes.
> How would you describe them, I may want to spring for one, should be reasonably priced.
> 
> Sure miss Stan at ESRC....bet he would have has some NOS ones at a good price.



As one would expect, I find the bass is quite good, but to my mind, it is not a "bass head" tube. The midrange and highs are fairly neutral and vocals are clear, not at all muddy. What I like about the Ken-Rad  is that it works as a good "foundation" tube. It does a good job with the fundamentals and then I can add brighter and more euphonic drivers and output tubes. So far, I am very pleased with it.

When buying Ken-Rad I am always cognizant of the fact the GE bought the company in 1945. So my practice is to find tubes that were manufactured before GE took control and use them as my reference.

These are Ken-Rad 5Z3. First, I should say, the 5Z3 and 5U4G are electrically identical. The 5Z3 came first and was mounted in a UX-Base (4 Pins, 2 thick) and then when the octal socket was introduced, the tube was mounted in an octal socket and became a 5U4G.

The left-hand tube below was manufactured in 1937. It is my reference - Before GE. The right-hand tube was manufactured in 1947 and it carries the standard GE code, "188 5". However, the changes in those ten years appear to be trivial. The shape of the getter is slightly different, foil to rectangular, and the older tube has a taller bottle. I am not able to discern any other construction differences. And more importantly, no sonic differences.

So if you want to try one of these, look for the ribbed plates and that distinctive mica spacer structure on top.


----------



## Smallpie (Oct 28, 2021)

Does anybody know if this is a Brimar Rectifier?(the Haltron on the left.)
I added a Phillips 5r4gys on the right for reference. A few differences between the two especially at the top. The Haltron cv717 has a different mica structure.



Edit: the brimar cv717  in the dubstep thread picture attached 
 ( https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/ ) looks way different and more like the 5r4gys at the top.


----------



## gibosi

Akiravelvet said:


> Does anybody know if this is a Brimar Rectifier?(the Haltron on the left.)
> I added a Phillips 5r4gys on the right for reference. A few differences between the two especially at the top. The Haltron cv717 has a different mica structure.
> 
> 
> ...



The short answer is that it sure sounds like a Brimar 5R4GY.

The tube below on the right is definitely a Brimar 5R4G7, dated 1957. However, it's not clear to me who actually manufactured the tube on the left. I have seen it labeled as a Brimar, a Haltron and even an Italian Marconi. In the end, to my ears they both sound the same. So, since it sounds like a Brimar, I would recommend you buy which ever is the cheapest.


----------



## myphone

Akiravelvet said:


> Does anybody know if this is a Brimar Rectifier?(the Haltron on the left.)
> I added a Phillips 5r4gys on the right for reference. A few differences between the two especially at the top. The Haltron cv717 has a different mica structure.
> 
> 
> ...


I have one similar to the left, labeled as Brimar 5R4 (Foreign). 

Saw a website describes it as GEC Marconi 5R4


----------



## gibosi

myphone said:


> I have one similar to the left, labeled as Brimar 5R4 (Foreign).
> 
> Saw a website describes it as GEC Marconi 5R4



I am very certain that GEC Marconi didn't make this tube. And in fact, GEC Marconi never made the 5R4GY.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Oct 28, 2021)

@Akiravelvet

Your photo is a bit on the blurry side but it matches the comparison photo gibosi provided IMO.  I also own a Brimar 5R4GY with this same construction.  Very nice tubes.  The hanging filaments are pretty distinctive in this tube.  There are others that do hung filaments, but in the Brimar it really catches the eye for some reason IMO.

The Philips and the Brimar are arguable the two must have tubes of this type IMO.  There's nothing wrong with the more commonly found RCAs at all, but these two offer just a bit more in some ways.


----------



## gibosi

The only other European manufacturer of 5R4GY I am aware of is Fivre. Like most Fivre production, it has a fairly forward midrange, and in the right system I think it too is worth having.


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> The only other European manufacturer of 5R4GY I am aware of is Fivre. Like most Fivre production, it has a fairly forward midrange, and in the right system I think it too is worth having.


Picked up a bunch of those from an Italian friend of mine last year. They were very dusty and dirty with dirty pins - but cleaned up pretty good and tested well! I often use those rectifiers in my preamp and DAC.


----------



## Smallpie

gibosi said:


> The short answer is that it sure sounds like a Brimar 5R4GY.
> 
> The tube below on the right is definitely a Brimar 5R4G7, dated 1957. However, it's not clear to me who actually manufactured the tube on the left. I have seen it labeled as a Brimar, a Haltron and even an Italian Marconi. In the end, to my ears they both sound the same. So, since it sounds like a Brimar, I would recommend you buy which ever is the cheapest.


Thanks! Yea, mine looks a lot like the one on the left. I bought them from a person saying they were Brimar but the brimar in the dubstep thread looks way different. 

I have two of these tubes and only need one so if anybody is looking for one let me know.


----------



## myphone

These are some of my 5R4G: left Brimar, middle Brimar foreign right Phillips. Different internal structure. Two closer photos are Brimar foreign


----------



## Xcalibur255

I don't like to speak ill of anybody, but that dubstep thread you speak of has bothered me since the day it was posted years ago.  Many people new to tubes find posts like these and use them for buying advice to fill in the vacuum (ahem) in their early knowledge gaps and I think that particular comparison review post is doing those people a disservice in many cases.


----------



## gibosi

Since my ears are far from golden, much of what dubstep writes is meaningless to me. But I think the pictures are very good.

Below, a picture of a Fivre 5R4GY. Notice two bottom getters, the characters etched into the side of the glass and the shape of the top mica spacer.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Indeed, if it was just a picture post about identifying said tubes it would be a fantastic post.


----------



## gibosi

Thought I would change things up a bit and this evening rolled in a Valvo G4004 rectifier, keeping the four TS 6BX7 and a pair of NU Type 76. It sounds really good, but then those of us with GOTLs know that almost everything sounds good in a Glenn.


----------



## jonathan c

Xcalibur255 said:


> I don't like to speak ill of anybody, but that dubstep thread you speak of has bothered me since the day it was posted years ago.  Many people new to tubes find posts like these and use them for buying advice to fill in the vacuum (ahem) in their early knowledge gaps and I think that particular comparison review post is doing those people a disservice in many cases.


…a case of a little knowledge being harmful, more knowledge being more harmful…until perspective is achieved by memory of error and $$$…


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Thought I would change things up a bit and this evening rolled in a Valvo G4004 rectifier, keeping the four TS 6BX7 and a pair of NU Type 76. It sounds really good, but then those of us with GOTLs know that almost everything sounds good in a Glenn.


Those Tung Sol's are pretty, besides sounding really nice.


----------



## gibosi

Yeah, the Tung-Sols put on a nice light show. And tapping the "night sight" button on my camera phone adds a little magic to the picture.


----------



## mordy

More night sights in blue:




Just picked this picture because it is pretty...


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> More night sights in blue:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice pic!  That should be enough to turn even the most rabid transistor-head into a tubehead.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Nice pic!  That should be enough to turn even the most rabid transistor-head into a tubehead.


…even into a GEek?…


----------



## jonathan c

mordy said:


> More night sights in blue:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Obviously, Marilyn Manson is not being played…(bcowen 😔)…


----------



## whirlwind

This combo has been on a constant loop ever since the new album arrived Friday....even my wife has listened to the album twice with this combo and she rarely listens with headphones.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I finished @Monsterzero 's modded GOTL, won't go into the details again as I already did here, but here's a pic.


----------



## heliosphann

L0rdGwyn said:


> I finished @Monsterzero 's modded GOTL, won't go into the details again as I already did here, but here's a pic.


Why you mod his but not me?

No one will probably get that reference.


----------



## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I finished @Monsterzero 's modded GOTL, won't go into the details again as I already did here, but here's a pic.


Now we are all waiting to hear how the modded GOTL (LGOTL?) sounds in comparison to the original!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> Why you mod his but not me?
> 
> No one will probably get that reference.



It's over my head lol.



mordy said:


> Now we are all waiting to hear how the modded GOTL (LGOTL?) sounds in comparison to the original!



I'll let @Monsterzero handle that one


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Here's one more pic with Tung-Sol 6J5G, I think these sound better than the Sylvanias.


----------



## mordy (Nov 1, 2021)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here's one more pic with Tung-Sol 6J5G, I think these sound better than the Sylvanias.


Both TS and Syl sound great, but did you try the early 1950's Sylvania tall bottle 6J5GT (not the 40's VT-94)? IMHO they sound even better. As always, YMMV...
On the other hand, my GOTL is not modded (yet).


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> Both TS and Syl sound great, but did you try the early 1950's Sylvania tall bottle 6J5GT (not the 40's VT-94)?



I don't think I have those ones, I don't do much tube collecting / rolling these days though, mostly I am buying tubes for their specs to try in new circuits.  Right now I am collecting pairs of high gm triodes / pentodes for potential use in a spud design and / or interstage transformer coupled designs.


----------



## triod750

L0rdGwyn said:


> I don't think I have those ones, I don't do much tube collecting / rolling these days though, mostly I am buying tubes for their specs to try in new circuits.  Right now I am collecting pairs of high gm triodes / pentodes for potential use in a spud design and / or interstage transformer coupled designs.


L0rdGwyn is becoming narrowminded.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Both TS and Syl sound great, but did you try the early 1950's Sylvania tall bottle 6J5GT (not the 40's VT-94)? IMHO they sound even better. As always, YMMV...
> On the other hand, my GOTL is not modded (yet).



In my experience the National Union Type 76 sounds awful good. Have you tried an NU 6J5GT?


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> In my experience the National Union Type 76 sounds awful good. Have you tried an NU 6J5GT?


So far I only have one triple mica NU 6J5GT but I am on the lookout for another one. But not this one with bariatric surgery:




Probably dangerous to do bariatric surgery on an eighty year old lol...
Date code EU is 1941.
The one I have is a JAN 6J5GT/94D and dated HC = 1944. I rated it Excellent when I tested it, but probably matched it with a Tung Sol then. In addition, it looks different with three round micas.
Looked through eBay listings now - there seems to be at least six different contructions of this tube.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> So far I only have one triple mica NU 6J5GT but I am on the lookout for another one. But not this one with bariatric surgery:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have one pair of NU 76 in military JAN boxes dated 1945, and an earlier pair, date code F (?), but based on construction, from the late 1930's. They all sound about the same to my ears. The 76 was first introduced in 1934.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I have one pair of NU 76 in military JAN boxes dated 1945, and an earlier pair, date code F (?), but based on construction, from the late 1930's. They all sound about the same to my ears. The 76 was first introduced in 1934.


I put together a list of National Union date codes (can't remember where I got it from but maybe Antique Radio Forum, and I extrapolate from this list. NU stopped production in 1954 (bought by Sylvania).
*First letter:
G 1943
H 1944
I 1945
J 1946* 
GU is July 1943
HU is June 1944
IN is May 1945
IU June 1945
IU April 45
IU March 45
HC Oct 44 
 Quarters?:
U is March April June/July May maybe
N is March April May probably
R June
C October?
Can't figure out the exact meaning of the second letter...
If someone has better information, please let me know.


----------



## whirlwind

I have the metal base VT-94.  They are nice tubes.
mordy, your HC code seems to be correct.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> I put together a list of National Union date codes (can't remember where I got it from but maybe Antique Radio Forum, and I extrapolate from this list. NU stopped production in 1954 (bought by Sylvania).
> *First letter:
> G 1943
> H 1944
> ...



I hadn't seen these codes before, so good job! 

I have two JAN #76, and the box on one is dated. April, 1945, and the other is May, 1945, but both carry the same two-digit code, "IU". It may well be that these codes represent the "painting, packaging and shipping" dates and "U" indicates a multi-month period, but of course, I don't know.

The older #76, below to the right, has a single digit, "F" printed to the right of the main logo, and this single digit doesn't fit into the later two-letter dating scheme. Further, since it has an older construction, welded plates as opposed to riveted plates, taller bottle, and an older style top mica structure, I am inclined to think late 1930's, but of course, I can't know for sure.


----------



## mordy (Nov 2, 2021)

gibosi said:


> I hadn't seen these codes before, so good job!
> 
> I have two JAN #76, and the box on one is dated. April, 1945, and the other is May, 1945, but both carry the same two-digit code, "IU". It may well be that these codes represent the "painting, packaging and shipping" dates and "U" indicates a multi-month period, but of course, I don't know.
> 
> The older #76, below to the right, has a single digit, "F" printed to the right of the main logo, and this single digit doesn't fit into the later two-letter dating scheme. Further, since it has an older construction, welded plates as opposed to riveted plates, taller bottle, and an older style top mica structure, I am inclined to think late 1930's, but of course, I can't know for sure.


It is also possible that I was able to compare the dates on some original boxes with the date codes on the tubes.
One of the mysteries that are left are the dating of Tung Sol tubes. Even though the dates on the tubes are supposedly warranty expiration dates, it still gives you an idea of the year of manufacture within a year or so.
Somewhere I have a small list of Tung Sol dates as they appear on the original boxes and on the tubes (the main problem is the strange letter combinations). I was wondering if, with the help of forum members, we could put together a list based on the boxes and the tubes. Personally, I feel that it would be helpful. In addition, I believe that many military tubes made by Tung Sol have the regular dates on the them, but tubes for civilian use have the letter codes, and it would be possible to put together pairs that way.
Here is a "matched pair" - identical construction. One is from the second week 1962 factory 3(?) and the other one from KK3:


----------



## gibosi

Those of you rolling 6J5, how do the RCA sound? I have a pair of RCA Type 76, manufactured in 1936, that sound awful good too.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 4, 2021)

When I first got these Arcturus, I thought they were RCA, but someone else here thought they were National Union.
They look a lot like your NU 76.
They are in my OTL now and sound great paired with Chatham 6AS7G




Not sure what this code is.


----------



## Xcalibur255

My vote would also be National Union.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> When I first got these Arcturus, I thought they were RCA, but someone else here thought they were National Union.
> They look a lot like your NU 76.
> They are in my OTL now and sound great paired with Chatham
> 
> ...



I would agree. They look exactly like my NU 76, except yours has an octal base. And the code, SA, doesn't seem to be an NU code, and there's no telling what it might mean.


----------



## mordy (Nov 11, 2021)

Found a video showing RCA tube manufacturing in Lancaster, PA.
Haven't seen this one before. What is striking to me is the almost total lack of automation - everything is made by hand. And the lack of safety precautions...
The unhurriedness of certain parts of the operation is also striking.
At 3:10 the soldering process of the pins is shown - that's the only quick thing in the film. 
Although the date is given as 1966 something tells me that the film is from much earlier - don't know if anode cap tubes were being manufactured then. (The announcer actually states that 1966 is the date on the film reel itself)


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Found a video showing RCA tube manufacturing in Lancaster, PA.
> Haven't seen this one before. What is striking to me is the almost total lack of automation - everything is made by hand. And the lack of safety precautions...
> The unhurriedness of certain parts of the operation is also striking.
> At 3:10 the soldering process of the pins is shown - that's the only quick thing in the film.
> Although the date is given as 1966 something tells me that the film is from much earlier - don't know if anode cap tubes were being manufactured then. (The announcer actually states that 1966 is the date on the film reel itself)



Read through the numerous comments - a couple of memorable ones:
Some of the best tubes were made by our grandmothers!
The fancy dresses and jewelry worn indicates that the workers were told that they were going to be filmed - they were not wearing regular work clothes.
"The land of lead and asbestos."


----------



## triod750

mordy said:


> Although the date is given as 1966 something tells me that the film is from much earlier


Her hair says 1966...


----------



## gibosi (Nov 11, 2021)

triod750 said:


> Her hair says 1966...



And her hair, jewelry and clothing also suggests the 1950's. So I agree with mordy. 

Further, I worked in a somewhat similar setting (depot-level maintance on inertial guidance systems for military aircraft and guided missiles) from 1966-70, and the equipment I see in the film looks significantly more primitive than what I used.


----------



## triod750

gibosi said:


> the equipment I see in the film looks significantly more primitive than what I used.


I can't stop giggling when thinking of this. Well, in between I laugh out loud! Impressive indeed!!  .


----------



## whirlwind

Listening to an Eric Gales playlist this morning with the VC  and these five pretty maids...all in a row.




@Monsterzero  Has you amp made it's way back to you?


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> Listening to an Eric Gales playlist this morning with the VC  and these five pretty maids...all in a row.
> 
> 
> @Monsterzero  Has you amp made it's way back to you?


It has indeed. Unfortunately my VC has made its way back to ZMF. Somewhere along the way,I lost bass response from the VC. Zach asked me to take the black grilles off and snap a couple photos of it, which I did. He couldnt ID anything obvious from the pics, so off it went.

In the interim Ive been listening to the VO, and although Keenan did a fantastic job on my amp, ive not been able to replicate the depth and height out of the VO as I was with the Airmid (RIP).


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> It has indeed. Unfortunately my VC has made its way back to ZMF. Somewhere along the way,I lost bass response from the VC. Zach asked me to take the black grilles off and snap a couple photos of it, which I did. He couldnt ID anything obvious from the pics, so off it went.
> 
> In the interim Ive been listening to the VO, and although Keenan did a fantastic job on my amp, ive not been able to replicate the depth and height out of the VO as I was with the Airmid (RIP).


Sounds like you will be getting fresh drivers


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> Sounds like you will be getting fresh drivers


I'm seriously contemplating making a run at one of the poured resin VC. 
They are absolutely the most incredible looking headphones I've seen.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I'm seriously contemplating making a run at one of the poured resin VC.
> They are absolutely the most incredible looking headphones I've seen.


Yeah, that black and white resin together is easy on the eyes, I love it.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, that black and white resin together is easy on the eyes, I love it.


Yeah, that one is one of my favs too. Im looking forward to seeing all that will be available. Pure headphone porn at its filthiest!


----------



## bcowen

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah, that one is one of my favs too. Im looking forward to seeing all that will be available. Pure headphone porn at its filthiest!


Is it bad if headphone porn is more alluring than human porn?  I should probably see a doctor...


----------



## mordy

A year or two ago I was told that ZMF was working on a budget headphone - does anybody know if anything came out?
Is it true that they use Fostex drivers?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Maybe I'm boring, but I like understated natural woods with a nice grain on ZMFs, really liked those Desert Ironwood VCs when it first came out, the African Blackwood VCs just announced are also intriguing.  I am going to get some ZMF headphones when I finish this 45 amp for Zach, I think one of them will be the VC, going to have to make some big decisions soon!


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> A year or two ago I was told that ZMF was working on a budget headphone - does anybody know if anything came out?
> Is it true that they use Fostex drivers?


When ZMF first started way back when, the headphones Zach created in his home used Fostex drivers, as did Mr. Speakers aka DCA. 
Now both use proprietary drivers.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> the African Blackwood VCs just announced are also intriguing.


Blackwood would be my choice as well, but @ 700lbs, theyre much too heavy for me


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> Blackwood would be my choice as well, but @ 700lbs, theyre much too heavy for me



Yeah that's my only hangup, they do come with that fancy crescent strap though.  I'll have to ask the man himself about it.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yeah that's my only hangup, they do come with that fancy crescent strap though.  I'll have to ask the man himself about it.


I'm just poking fun at Zach's video. ive never been bothered by the weight of any headphone, but i listen in my Archie Bunker chair w/ my head resting


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yeah that's my only hangup, they do come with that fancy crescent strap though.  I'll have to ask the man himself about it.


ZMF headphones are pretty comfy...I would not worry about the weight.
That being said, I have used heavier headphones for some time now.....those blackwood's will sound fabulous.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Monsterzero said:


> I'm just poking fun at Zach's video. ive never been bothered by the weight of any headphone, but i listen in my Archie Bunker chair w/ my head resting




Pounds?!?!?!  Lol too funny.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

whirlwind said:


> ZMF headphones are pretty comfy...I would not worry about the weight.
> That being said, I have used heavier headphones for some time now.....those blackwood's will sound fabulous.



You're right Joe, doubt it will be an issue, and the thicker pad will help alleviate any hot spots on the head.  It's been a long while since I got my hands on a new headphone...wow, I bought my cocobolo Auteur in April 2019, that's a lifetime in headphone years lol.


----------



## whirlwind

L0rdGwyn said:


> You're right Joe, doubt it will be an issue, and the thicker pad will help alleviate any hot spots on the head.  It's been a long while since I got my hands on a new headphone...wow, I bought my cocobolo Auteur in April 2019, that's a lifetime in headphone years lol.


Could you imagine a blackwood quartersawn VC  
In the video Zach said it is hard to get that, but man that would that be a pretty headphone.
All of the blackwood look gorgeous.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've slowly come to realize over the years that how the pads distribute the clamping force of the headband is really critical to the comfort of a headphone.  I was all ready to start saving money for an LCD-5 but have enough concerns that they'll cause me jaw pain that the plan is on hold.  I actually really like the idea behind what they did with their new pads.  My understanding is the design is meant to encourage the headphones to always "center" on your head the same way which can take a major source of variation in the sound out of the equation, but by tapering the pads all of the clamping force is going to be focused on the outer edge that is making contact with your face.  I have TMJ and other jaw issues so high clamp and a pad that focuses it all in one spot is going to be recipe for trouble.  Maybe the alternative headband with less clamp will be the answer, but for $4,500 I don't want it to be a gamble.

The last headphone I bought was my MrSpeakers (DCA) Ether in April 2016 (a purchase I've come to regret sadly).  I lasted a long time before the itch began to reappear!


----------



## Wes S (Nov 17, 2021)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Maybe I'm boring, but I like understated natural woods with a nice grain on ZMFs, really liked those Desert Ironwood VCs when it first came out, the African Blackwood VCs just announced are also intriguing.  I am going to get some ZMF headphones when I finish this 45 amp for Zach, I think one of them will be the VC, going to have to make some big decisions soon!


You are not alone.   I am boring, and prefer natural woods too.


----------



## whirlwind

Xcalibur255 said:


> I've slowly come to realize over the years that how the pads distribute the clamping force of the headband is really critical to the comfort of a headphone.  I was all ready to start saving money for an LCD-5 but have enough concerns that they'll cause me jaw pain that the plan is on hold.  I actually really like the idea behind what they did with their new pads.  My understanding is the design is meant to encourage the headphones to always "center" on your head the same way which can take a major source of variation in the sound out of the equation, but by tapering the pads all of the clamping force is going to be focused on the outer edge that is making contact with your face.  I have TMJ and other jaw issues so high clamp and a pad that focuses it all in one spot is going to be recipe for trouble.  Maybe the alternative headband with less clamp will be the answer, but for $4,500 I don't want it to be a gamble.
> 
> The last headphone I bought was my MrSpeakers (DCA) Ether in April 2016 (a purchase I've come to regret sadly).  I lasted a long time before the itch began to reappear!


Does the Ether hurt your jaw ?

I have a ZMF Ori that I own...probably about the same time frame as your Ether.
It uses T50P Fostex drivers and Zach has it tuned with +bass and -treble.
I love it....thing is it does not get a lot of head time.

Since I have retired I have been using my IEM a lot when traveling and my walks and such.
Thinking about selling Ori and upping the sound of my IEM's. I have been listening to them most everyday for an hour or two.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Off topic but I think its an end of an era. We will never see any Glenn's amp (new built) in near future. I am saying so as my built was on-hand for built (a couple of months back) but it seems due to Glenn's work- life schedule he is not getting any time for amp built & it's a far fetched dream to get a new Glenn's amp now. After waiting this long, it was quite heavy on me to ask for a refund of the advance I paid. But I guess that is the reality. 
I hope @2359glenn is doing well, is safe & will respond soon to close my built request.


----------



## leftside (Nov 17, 2021)

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Off topic but I think its an end of an era. We will never see any Glenn's amp (new built) in near future. I am saying so as my built was on-hand for built (a couple of months back) but it seems due to Glenn's work- life schedule he is not getting any time for amp built & it's a far fetched dream to get a new Glenn's amp now. After waiting this long, it was quite heavy on me to ask for a refund of the advance I paid. But I guess that is the reality.
> I hope @2359glenn is doing well, is safe & will respond soon to close my built request.


Glenn's amp building legacy lives on. There are other custom amp builders on Headfi now. My first amp from Mischa 1101 Audio was a "Super OTL" and I borrowed many of the features from Glenn's classic OTL amps. Glenn came up with unique features to drive any tube roller totally crazy. 6/12/24 volt switches, 5998/6AS7G switches, etc which can all be incorporated into the other amps currently being built.


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> Does the Ether hurt your jaw ?
> 
> I have a ZMF Ori that I own...probably about the same time frame as your Ether.
> It uses T50P Fostex drivers and Zach has it tuned with +bass and -treble.
> ...


Not much pain with the Ether.  The square pad shape creats a few pressure points but they have low clamping force so it works.  My issue with the Ether is tuning.  It just doesn't sound very good, especially for how expensive they were.  I fell for the hype train around them when they first came out.  It's more than just tone (though I do think the tuning is off), it feels like they are not phase and time correct in a way that's hard to put into words.  They are also weirdly lacking in dynamic range for a planar.  Sort of like watching a TV with a bad contrast ratio.


----------



## Monsterzero

Xcalibur255 said:


> weirdly lacking in dynamic range for a planar. Sort


Every DCA headphone ive heard suffers from lack of dynamics/ texture/ bass


----------



## raindownthunda

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Off topic but I think its an end of an era. We will never see any Glenn's amp (new built) in near future. I am saying so as my built was on-hand for built (a couple of months back) but it seems due to Glenn's work- life schedule he is not getting any time for amp built & it's a far fetched dream to get a new Glenn's amp now. After waiting this long, it was quite heavy on me to ask for a refund of the advance I paid. But I guess that is the reality.
> I hope @2359glenn is doing well, is safe & will respond soon to close my built


Thanks for sharing - this post hits hard with me as well. After over 2 years of waiting and dreaming for one of Glenn’s amps, I, too, have sadly accepted it’s time to withdraw from the queue. Ultimately, without any commitment on if/when the build will ever happen, it felt like it was time to move on.

I was able to get in touch with Glenn several weeks ago over email (same email I used to send my PayPal deposit). Glenn acknowledged my request for a refund on my amp deposit, but no timeline could be given on when that could happen. It is an unfortunate situation all around. I truly wish Glenn the best and hope life gets easier so he can keep doing what he loves.

I’ll second @leftside ’s recommendation for 1101 Audio. Mischa has been extremely responsive and a joy to work with. His queue is getting quite long! But he’s actively building amps and coming out with all types of awesome innovations (Check our Blue Halo+ if you were looking for a GOTL).


----------



## Smallpie

Wes S said:


> You are not alone.   I am boring, and prefer natural woods too.


And that’s why I like these resin cups over the stabilized as there is still a part with the natural organic wood still intact.


----------



## bcowen

Monsterzero said:


> Every DCA headphone ive heard suffers from lack of dynamics/ texture/ bass


My translation:  boring.  That's why I sold my Aeons. Was hoping the Aeon 2's would improve on that, but nope.  The ZMF's DO improve on that.  Big time.


----------



## gibosi

As long as folks are talking about headphones...  Might there be some consensus regarding the best headphone(s) under $1000 for the GOTL? Currently I am using a modded Sennheiser HD 700 and it has been working well for me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I suspect a modded (or even stock) HD600 or HD650 would still be a very strong contender as well.  Or perhaps their "replacement" the HD660S?


----------



## Monsterzero (Nov 18, 2021)

gibosi said:


> As long as folks are talking about headphones...  Might there be some consensus regarding the best headphone(s) under $1000 for the GOTL? Currently I am using a modded Sennheiser HD 700 and it has been working well for me.


Sennheiser HD250 for great bass and detail
ZMF Aeolus b-stock for mids and warm tone

EDIT: The AKG K701, even though it has a low impedance is fantastic on the GOTL


----------



## heliosphann

Used HD800 and put an SDR mod in it. Used HD800s are also only going for a little more than 1K.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 18, 2021)

I have seen some used HD800 for an open headphone and ZMF Atticus for a closed headphone under $1000 in the B/S/T forums
As @Monsterzero mentioned, maybe some B stock ZMF


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 19, 2021)

B Stock ZMF...some great looking cans!

https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/collections/zmf-november/products/b-stock-headphones

https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/collections/zmf-november/products/b-stock-auteur-eikon-headphones


----------



## Galapac

whirlwind said:


> B Stock ZMF...some great looking cans!
> 
> https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/collections/zmf-november/products/b-stock-headphones
> 
> https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/collections/zmf-november/products/b-stock-auteur-eikon-headphones


B Stock to me is just as good as the A stock or stabilized/resin sets. 
The sound is the same and your wallet doesn't go into shock.

When I am wearing my ZMF's I'm not sitting in front of a mirror so I cannot see them anyway, which is secondary.

I always thought it was just bragging rights to show off to your friends on how cool they look, and those new resin sets are very cool, but unless you have the disposable income, not necessary.

I guess I'm getting too old, lol.


----------



## whirlwind

Galapac said:


> B Stock to me is just as good as the A stock or stabilized/resin sets.
> The sound is the same and your wallet doesn't go into shock.
> 
> When I am wearing my ZMF's I'm not sitting in front of a mirror so I cannot see them anyway, which is secondary.
> ...



yeah, they still have a life time warranty on the drivers and maybe can get some nice headphones for around $1000


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> yeah, they still have a life time warranty on the drivers and maybe can get some nice headphones for around $1000


I made @gibosi aware of the b-stock sale coming up a few days ago. Hopefully he and @mordy  can join the ZMF/GOTL club.
I'd pay good money to see the look on Ken's face when he finally understands what us ZMF fanboys have been raving about all these years.


----------



## triod750

Some of us like to play it safe and still have a step or two to the top. It might be cold up there .


----------



## mordy

triod750 said:


> Some of us like to play it safe and still have a step or two to the top. It might be cold up there .


Well - here is your chance to buy a top notch headphone for a song: Drop (formerly Massdrop) has the Sennheiser HD650 for $179.00
https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-sennh...CampaignId=3241989&iterableTemplateId=4434898


----------



## triod750

mordy said:


> Well - here is your chance to buy a top notch headphone for a song: Drop (formerly Massdrop) has the Sennheiser HD650 for $179.00
> https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-sennh...CampaignId=3241989&iterableTemplateId=4434898


You talking to me - huh? I can't sing but I have HD650 so that doesn't matter much.


----------



## mordy

triod750 said:


> You talking to me - huh? I can't sing but I have HD650 so that doesn't matter much.


Always good to have a backup, eh?


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> Well - here is your chance to buy a top notch headphone for a song: Drop (formerly Massdrop) has the Sennheiser HD650 for $179.00
> https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-sennh...CampaignId=3241989&iterableTemplateId=4434898


I bought my HD-6XX's when they had a similar sale a couple years ago.  Spend a little extra for the hybrid pads and then get a decent cable and they become one of those truly great bargains in audio, IMO.  Lots of sonic goodness for surprisingly little cash.


----------



## jonathan c

triod750 said:


> You talking to me - huh? I can't sing but I have HD650 so that doesn't matter much.


I didn’t know that you had a cameo appearance in ‘Taxi Driver’…🚕…


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I bought my HD-6XX's when they had a similar sale a couple years ago.  Spend a little extra for the hybrid pads and then get a decent cable and they become one of those truly great bargains in audio, IMO.  Lots of sonic goodness for surprisingly little cash.


Have you replaced the ear-side foams? I did (plus installed a cnc backweight from Custom Cans UK) for both HD-6XX and HD-600. Result: 🎼🎶👍. [HD-6XX is at ‘mountain house’.] Ultra headphones without ultra price.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Have you replaced the ear-side foams? I did (plus installed a cnc backweight from Custom Cans UK) for both HD-6XX and HD-600. Result: 🎼🎶👍. [HD-6XX is at ‘mountain house’.] Ultra headphones without ultra price.


No.  Explain please.

(damnit....one hand is typing while the other is grabbing the wallet)


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> No.  Explain please.
> 
> (damnit....one hand is typing while the other is grabbing the wallet)


I took out the ear side foam and replaced it with Chicopee Chix perforated cloth. [I use those around the house: one afternoon was ‘what if?’…] That removed any muffling from the foam. I may replace with something more sheer. The cnc backweight for the driver reduced tendency to resonance in the midbass area.


----------



## triod750

jonathan c said:


> I didn’t know that you had a cameo appearance in ‘Taxi Driver’…🚕…


You talking to Mordy, huh? I only know about loudspeaker and headphone drivers, maybe tubes too. But yes, I remembered that line. 

How does that weight stay in place? Is the mod reverseable? If it does what you say (you wouldn't say it otherwise, would you  ) it would be good.


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 21, 2021)

triod750 said:


> You talking to Mordy, huh? I only know about loudspeaker and headphone drivers, maybe tubes too. But yes, I remembered that line.
> 
> How does that weight stay in place? Is the mod reverseable? If it does what you say (you wouldn't say it otherwise, would you  ) it would be good.


The weight clips on; the mod is reversible. There is information on the mod on the Custom Cans UK website. Fellow Head-Fier @jfunk is the proprietor.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Monsterzero said:


> I made @gibosi aware of the b-stock sale coming up a few days ago. Hopefully he and @mordy  can join the ZMF/GOTL club.
> I'd pay good money to see the look on Ken's face when he finally understands what us ZMF fanboys have been raving about all these years.


Verite + GOTL = long term fav companion 

Just a bit precious about some of the tubes as time goes on.  Sigh


----------



## NickT23

Galapac said:


> B Stock to me is just as good as the A stock or stabilized/resin sets.
> The sound is the same and your wallet doesn't go into shock.
> 
> When I am wearing my ZMF's I'm not sitting in front of a mirror so I cannot see them anyway, which is secondary.
> ...


The B stock are still expensive.


----------



## whirlwind

Anybody here grab them any ZMF's during the sale ?


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Anybody here grab them any ZMF's during the sale ?



Unfortunately, I was too slow....


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 22, 2021)

whirlwind said:


> Anybody here grab them any ZMF's during the sale ?


Yes. Aeolus camphor burl 😄


----------



## triod750

Bah - poetry!!


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, I was too slow....


That is part of the package with getting old....slow becomes the new fast and 9:00 pm becomes the new midnight


----------



## cdanguyen08

whirlwind said:


> That is part of the package with getting old....slow becomes the new fast and 9:00 pm becomes the new midnight


With a infant, I'm in bed by 1800 lol


----------



## triod750

triod750 said:


> Bah - poetry!!


As in there goes rhymin Simon/Jonathan. Can you c him?
Well conceived.


----------



## mordy

whirlwind said:


> That is part of the package with getting old....slow becomes the new fast and 9:00 pm becomes the new midnight


So true - slow becomes the new fast, and simple little things take much longer to do...


----------



## jonathan c

cdanguyen08 said:


> With a infant, I'm in bed by 1800 lol


…and up at 1805…


----------



## jonathan c

mordy said:


> So true - slow becomes the new fast, and simple little things take much longer to do...


…like cleaning tube pins, tube sockets, sorting the tube adapters, demagnetising moving coil cartridges…


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> So true - slow becomes the new fast, and simple little things take much longer to do...



Yes, simple little things like getting dressed in the morning... lol


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Yes, simple little things like getting dressed in the morning... lol


Getting old is not for sissies...
Just dropped one of the pills I take every morning (I am not going to ask how many you take) and I can't find it...


----------



## cdanguyen08

jonathan c said:


> …and up at 1805…


Ain't that the truth!


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> Getting old is not for sissies...
> Just dropped one of the pills I take every morning (I am not going to ask how many you take) and I can't find it...



I take most of my pills in the evening...  and sometimes, but fortunately not often, one rolls off the kitchen table onto the floor and I don't find it for days! lol


----------



## Xcalibur255

As long as the pets aren't eating them.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> That is part of the package with getting old....slow becomes the new fast and 9:00 pm becomes the new midnight


What about 4pm dinners? 



mordy said:


> So true - slow becomes the new fast, and simple little things take much longer to do...


email or PM Zach. Maybe he can help hook you up with a forgotten B stock pair that did not make it to the official sale...
Do not send him a handwritten letter, though


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Getting old is not for sissies...
> Just dropped one of the pills I take every morning (I am not going to ask how many you take) and I can't find it...


The good news? In 5 minutes, you'd forget all about it...


----------



## gibosi

Xcalibur255 said:


> As long as the pets aren't eating them.



I lost my two old dogs last year and have put off getting any more. I figure I need a wife more than I need a dog!  
And if she finds the pill I don't have to worry about her eating it. lol


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I lost my two old dogs last year and have put off getting any more. I figure I need a wife more than I need a dog!
> And if she finds the pill I don't have to worry about her eating it. lol


It's not good to be alone. I always ask my wife to find the things I am looking for and can't find and she usually finds it. But the little yellow baby aspirin pill is still missing...(See - I remember...)
Have to sweep the floor...


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> It's not good to be alone. I always ask my wife to find the things I am looking for and can't find and she usually finds it. But the little yellow baby aspirin pill is still missing...(See - I remember...)
> Have to sweep the floor...



I have found a suitable candidate for the vacant wife position in my household.... But COVID makes everything more difficult....


----------



## jonathan c

Zachik said:


> What about 4pm dinners?


A/K/A ‘early bird specials’…🍽…


----------



## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> Anybody here grab them any ZMF's during the sale ?


No, but I just about pulled the trigger on a pair of African Blackwood Verite closed.  Might still.  Was surprised to see them still available today...


----------



## bcowen

gibosi said:


> Yes, simple little things like getting dressed in the morning... lol


And trying to remember which headphone cup is left and which is right.  The dedication required here is overwhelming at times.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I have found a suitable candidate for the vacant wife position in my household.... But COVID makes everything more difficult....





bcowen said:


> And trying to remember which headphone cup is left and which is right.  The dedication required here is overwhelming at times.


I always look - some of them have markings on the inside of one of the cups, and an old Sennheiser has L in Braille on the cup so I can feel it. And one didn't have any markings so I put a sticker on it.


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> I always look - some of them have markings on the inside of one of the cups, and an old Sennheiser has L in Braille on the cup so I can feel it. And one didn't have any markings so I put a sticker on it.




The Atticus have angled pads, so it's pretty obvious if you put them on backwards.  But then you have to take them off and turn them around, which is an incredible amount of extra effort....


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> The Atticus have angled pads, so it's pretty obvious if you put them on backwards.  But then you have to take them off and turn them around, which is an incredible amount of extra effort....


…less effort than holding them still above your head while rotating yourself…😤😥…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> …less effort than holding them still above your head while rotating yourself…😤😥…


I *do* have a swivel chair.  Why didn't I think of that?  Sigh.


----------



## Velozity

whirlwind said:


> Anybody here grab them any ZMF's during the sale ?




Just some shirts to wear to CanJam NYC next year, lol.  I wanted and almost snagged a pair of VO but I successfully restrained myself.  I can use that money to pay Mischa for my upcoming amp .


----------



## Monsterzero

All the zmf headphones are easy to tell right from left, simply by looking at which way the interconnect jacks are pointing. 

Is everyone getting an amp from Mischa?
@Velozity which are you getting?


----------



## jonathan c

Monsterzero said:


> Is everyone getting an amp from Mischa?
> @Velozity which are you getting?


‘Everyone’ rather than ‘anyone’? I want to hang out with this group 🤩….


----------



## mordy

It looks like there will be available a Glenn inspired amp with six sockets for power tubes and three sockets for drivers:
https://www.1101audio.com/BlueHalo+OTL.html


----------



## leftside (Nov 23, 2021)

mordy said:


> It looks like there will be available a Glenn inspired amp with six sockets for power tubes and three sockets for drivers:
> https://www.1101audio.com/BlueHalo+OTL.html


It's very similar to my amp that Mischa built two years ago - the one we called the 'V6 Thunder'.  I insisted though on being able to use 6 6080/6AS7G tubes at the same time - even though Mischa said that I would then need a massive separate power supply in a second chassis. I said "do it"  Mine also has sockets for C3g tubes and inside the "transformer" covers are actually massive ClarityCap caps. It's an OTL amp that drives the LCD4 very well and even drives the Abyss very well too.

There is some history behind that amp. Four years ago Glenn was going to build it for me. A year later I realized for various reasons that this wasn't going to happen. So, I reached out to a number of builders to see if they were interested in building this "crazy amp" (Glenn's words). I got along very well with Mischa... and the rest is history.


----------



## raindownthunda (Nov 23, 2021)

mordy said:


> It looks like there will be available a Glenn inspired amp with six sockets for power tubes and three sockets for drivers:
> https://www.1101audio.com/BlueHalo+OTL.html


This is the one I’m getting hopefully soon… Beyond excited! All those 6j5 and 6as7g pairs I’ve been collecting in anticipation for a GOTL for the past few years will still go to good use. Can even run up to 6x 6080 (or 6bx7/6bl7), although Mischa says that will get pretty hot haha. Should also be fun to toggle between Blue Halo mode (using only driver tubes for input and output stage) vs BH+ mode (power tubes for output stage) depending on mood and use case. Also looking forward to experimenting with the CCS switch to compare with/without CCS. There are a ridiculous number of types of driver tubes that can be used with adapters due to the circuit design and parts used. Mischa has designed the amp in a way that should have endless possibilities in configurations and tube combinations to experiment with…


----------



## mordy

raindownthunda said:


> This is the one I’m getting hopefully soon… Beyond excited! All those 6j5 and 6as7g pairs I’ve been collecting in anticipation for a GOTL for the past few years will still go to good use. Can even run up to 6x 6080 (in addition to 6bx7/6bl7), although Mischa says that will get pretty hot haha. Should also be fun to toggle between Blue Halo mode (using only driver tubes for input and output stage) vs BH+ mode (power tubes for output stage) depending on mood and use case. Also looking forward to experimenting with the CCS switch to compare with/without CCS. Mischa has designed the amp in a way that should have endless possibilities in configurations and tube combinations to experiment with…


Wow! Can't wait to hear your impressions when you get it!
Perhaps consider fan cooling if you want to run 6 x 2.5A tubes? Is the transformer 20A?


----------



## raindownthunda

mordy said:


> Wow! Can't wait to hear your impressions when you get it!
> Perhaps consider fan cooling if you want to run 6 x 2.5A tubes? Is the transformer 20A?


I would have to ask @A2029 on transformer specs, but it sounds like it will be possible. He mentioned it would be pretty hard on the capacitors though and reduce the life by about 25% (compared to 2-4 6080). I’m planning to upgrade to ultra long life capacitors which should extend the cap life to 30+ years running in that mode. I doubt that will be a regular running configuration, but we’ll see how it sounds! I’m also having a temperature sensor installed in the chassis so will be able to monitor internal temps, for science, and to make sure it doesn’t get TOO hot inside


----------



## mordy

raindownthunda said:


> I would have to ask @A2029 on transformer specs, but it sounds like it will be possible. He mentioned it would be pretty hard on the capacitors though and reduce the life by about 25% (compared to 2-4 6080). I’m planning to upgrade to ultra long life capacitors which should extend the cap life to 30+ years running in that mode. I doubt that will be a regular running configuration, but we’ll see how it sounds! I’m also having a temperature sensor installed in the chassis so will be able to monitor internal temps, for science, and to make sure it doesn’t get TOO hot inside


Just for fun, I came across a post somewhere where somebody measured the outside transformer temperature and compared it to the inside temperature.
There was a 3 degree difference, but in this case it was a small amplifier.


----------



## A2029 (Nov 23, 2021)

mordy said:


> Wow! Can't wait to hear your impressions when you get it!
> Perhaps consider fan cooling if you want to run 6 x 2.5A tubes? Is the transformer 20A?



Somewhere around ~38 amps in transformer capacity (dual mono transformers, ~19amps each) just for the power tubes (overcapacity also reduces magnetic field leakage, transformer noise due to magnetostriction, and transformer heat). The three transformers combined in the Blue Halo+ have over 600 watts of total capacity, but only a portion of that is used for the noted reasons. The AC from these is rectified to DC, filtered and regulated. Running the 6 6080/6AS7 tubes will lead to very high heat sinking into the chassis, and make ambient temp internally quite high, which reduces electrolytic cap life considerably, hence long-life electrolytics are really needed if cranking out that much heat from the amp (it can also double as a portable space heater if in a cold climate like here in the Canadian land of snow).


----------



## whirlwind

raindownthunda said:


> This is the one I’m getting hopefully soon… Beyond excited! All those 6j5 and 6as7g pairs I’ve been collecting in anticipation for a GOTL for the past few years will still go to good use. Can even run up to 6x 6080 (or 6bx7/6bl7), although Mischa says that will get pretty hot haha. Should also be fun to toggle between Blue Halo mode (using only driver tubes for input and output stage) vs BH+ mode (power tubes for output stage) depending on mood and use case. Also looking forward to experimenting with the CCS switch to compare with/without CCS. There are a ridiculous number of types of driver tubes that can be used with adapters due to the circuit design and parts used. Mischa has designed the amp in a way that should have endless possibilities in configurations and tube combinations to experiment with…


Ha....can't imagine any case where you would need six 6080 tubes....but fun to say you can.


----------



## leftside

A2029 said:


> Somewhere around ~38 amps in transformer capacity (dual mono transformers, ~19amps each) just for the power tubes (overcapacity also reduces magnetic field leakage, transformer noise due to magnetostriction, and transformer heat). The three transformers combined in the Blue Halo+ have over 600 watts of total capacity, but only a portion of that is used for the noted reasons. The AC from these is rectified to DC, filtered and regulated. Running the 6 6080/6AS7 tubes will lead to very high heat sinking into the chassis, and make ambient temp internally quite high, which reduces electrolytic cap life considerably, hence long-life electrolytics are really needed if cranking out that much heat from the amp (it can also double as a portable space heater if in a cold climate like here in the Canadian land of snow).


Yep - I don’t need to turn the radiator on in that room when I’m running the V6 in the winter!


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Ha....can't imagine any case where you would need six 6080 tubes....but fun to say you can.


The extra tubes do lower the output impedance of the amp making it a little more suitable for headphones with lower impedance. One could argue this is stretching the limit of an OTL amp though, and one should stick with high impedance headphones… or get an amp with transformers. I like stretching limits… and an excuse to get another amp


----------



## Velozity

Monsterzero said:


> All the zmf headphones are easy to tell right from left, simply by looking at which way the interconnect jacks are pointing.
> 
> Is everyone getting an amp from Mischa?
> @Velozity which are you getting?



I'm getting a custom SET amp.  Simple and modest in size yet full-featured with good specs.  Similar to the build philosophy for
 my Glenn.  My 1101 amp will tube complement is 6J5 driver and 6V6/6L6/EL34/KT66/KT88 power.  I wanted some flexibility with this amp to use with lower impedance cans (hoping for a ZMF planar ) so I have multiple impedance options and two bias adjustment settings.  Here's my front panel:


----------



## leftside

Velozity said:


> I'm getting a custom SET amp.  Simple and modest in size yet full-featured with good specs.  Similar to the build philosophy for
> my Glenn.  My 1101 amp will tube complement is 6J5 driver and 6V6/6L6/EL34/KT66/KT88 power.  I wanted some flexibility with this amp to use with lower impedance cans (hoping for a ZMF planar ) so I have multiple impedance options and two bias adjustment settings.  Here's my front panel:


That also looks familiar… 🙂


----------



## bcowen

Velozity said:


> I'm getting a custom SET amp.  Simple and modest in size yet full-featured with good specs.  Similar to the build philosophy for
> my Glenn.  My 1101 amp will tube complement is 6J5 driver and 6V6/6L6/EL34/KT66/KT88 power.  I wanted some flexibility with this amp to use with lower impedance cans (hoping for a ZMF planar ) so I have multiple impedance options and two bias adjustment settings.  Here's my front panel:


Sweet!  I'm jealous already.


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 24, 2021)

Velozity said:


> I'm getting a custom SET amp.  Simple and modest in size yet full-featured with good specs.  Similar to the build philosophy for
> my Glenn.  My 1101 amp will tube complement is 6J5 driver and 6V6/6L6/EL34/KT66/KT88 power.  I wanted some flexibility with this amp to use with lower impedance cans (hoping for a ZMF planar ) so I have multiple impedance options and two bias adjustment settings.  Here's my front panel:


Nice....I too am hoping for a ZMF planar....if it happens my guess is that it will still be a long ways off as ZMF is just having to much success selling all of their dynamics, and that has kept them super busy.
At least we can dream   

A nice SET amp and some good planar's is a wonderful combination....and the EL34 tubes are so very nice with the electric guitar.


----------



## whirlwind

Happy Thanksgiving to everybody


----------



## maxpudding (Nov 28, 2021)

mordy said:


> It looks like there will be available a Glenn inspired amp with six sockets for power tubes and three sockets for drivers:
> https://www.1101audio.com/BlueHalo+OTL.html



I proposed that configuration to Mischa when I realized Glenn wouldn't be able to build my amp. We went back and forth to confirm the specs finally and discussed the possibility of a switch to enable/disable the distortion from the power tubes, while being driven by the 6j5 and/or 6sn7 tubes. Mischa said he had to think about it first, and after a couple of days he came back to me and said it's possible, not easy though. Mischa is a genius. He should patent that circuit design lol.


----------



## NickT23

HI are there any highly customized neutral OTL Tube Amplifier besides Glenn and 1011 audio ? Regardless pre built or custom boutique tube amp manufacturer


----------



## whirlwind

Had a blast last Sunday evening. Been loving seeing all of the live music again.

The first time I have ever uploaded anything to youtube....vids are from my cell phone, be kind  

If you look close you can see some tube gear.


----------



## gibosi




----------



## KarlHU

Silent One said:


> Just added Black Dayton Audio Spikes - 1-1/2"


Love how the tubes look tho


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


>


Thats awesome


----------



## whirlwind

New cell phone and the camera settings are far more advanced than my old one.

Not much glow on the Arcturus 6J5G, but they sure sound good. Not sure if they are RCA or NU.


----------



## Smallpie

I thought I’d post this here as this thread is full of people with lots of great experience and thought you could help.
I have a EML 2a3 tube that has a grid of filaments and one strand is much brighter than the others. (See picture. Picture doesn’t highlight it well though.)

Will this filament burn out quicker than the others? Does sound quality get effected?


----------



## gibosi

Akiravelvet said:


> I thought I’d post this here as this thread is full of people with lots of great experience and thought you could help.
> I have a EML 2a3 tube that has a grid of filaments and one strand is much brighter than the others. (See picture. Picture doesn’t highlight it well though.)
> 
> Will this filament burn out quicker than the others? Does sound quality get effected?



I have no experience with 2A3s, but I doubt that this is a problem. Given that these are likely "hand-made", inevitably there are small variances in construction from tube to tube. And these variances usually are what cause tubes to "light up" differently, maybe dimmer or brighter. But then again, I have no experience with 2A3s or any "new stock" tubes.  Good luck!


----------



## whirlwind

Merry Christmas To The Glenn Crew


----------



## magiccabbage

haven't been on here in a long time.... great to see this thread still active. Merry Christmas


----------



## whirlwind

Giving some IEM's a spin, going to try three or four different ones and keep maybe two of them.

Here is a single DD Moondrop Aria....great stuff at this price range around $65-80

Easy to drive, great timbre, very nice bass and mids with a slightly rolled off treble. Musical warm sound.

Just for kicks here they are in one tube mode with GEL3N...pretty kick a$$.

@gibosi will recognize the rectifier, as he turned me onto it a some years ago    

Extra exposure applied to all of these photos. The rectifier really does not glow overly bright.


----------



## Wes S

whirlwind said:


> Giving some IEM's a spin, going to try three or four different ones and keep maybe two of them.
> 
> Here is a single DD Moondrop Aria....great stuff at this price range around $65-80
> 
> ...


Nice!  I am listening with my Aria's from my Samsung S10+ as I am typing this and they sound killer just from my phone.  I can only imagine what they sound like on a GEL3N.


----------



## Zachik

I should really try out some of my high-end IEMs out of my 6EL3N in 1-tube mode... Never used IEMs with this amp...


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> I should really try out some of my high-end IEMs out of my 6EL3N in 1-tube mode... Never used IEMs with this amp...


I tried IEMs in my Glenn OTL - only problem was that the cables were too short lol...


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> I tried IEMs in my Glenn OTL - only problem was that the cables were too short lol...


I got a 4ft extension cable, exactly for this purpose...


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> I got a 4ft extension cable, exactly for this purpose...


Not long enough lol. Even the 6' cord with the HD650 I find too short; 10' is better for me.


----------



## whirlwind

mordy said:


> I tried IEMs in my Glenn OTL - only problem was that the cables were too short lol...


Yeah, the cables are not long. You need to be sitting close.




Zachik said:


> I should really try out some of my high-end IEMs out of my 6EL3N in 1-tube mode... Never used IEMs with this amp...


It is pretty sweet, Aria is dead silent.

I am sure it will sound great with your EE Iem's and such.


----------



## whirlwind

Wes S said:


> Nice!  I am listening with my Aria's from my Samsung S10+ as I am typing this and they sound killer just from my phone.  I can only imagine what they sound like on a GEL3N.



I used them on my walk with my tiny dap and they sound really good...was listening to Junior Wells Hoodoo 64X dsd.

For the price they are really quite surprising, and the sound is just how you described them.


----------



## gibosi

Hope everyone is enjoying the end of 2021 (good riddance!) and the beginning of 2022! 

As for me, it's still 2021 in my neck of the woods, and I'm just relaxing and enjoying some music. And tube rolling, of course!  

A 596 rectifier, a pair of Mullard 6080s and a Melz 1578.

And it sounds great!  But then, almost everything sounds great in a GOTL.


----------



## bcowen

gibosi said:


> Hope everyone is enjoying the end of 2021 (good riddance!) and the beginning of 2022!
> 
> As for me, it's still 2021 in my neck of the woods, and I'm just relaxing and enjoying some music. And tube rolling, of course!
> 
> ...


And Happy New Year to you too!  Sharing the Melz love (a 1956) but pairing with a TungSol 5998....a great combo in the Incubus.  Unfortunately no rectifier to roll, darn it.  

I tried to watch ABC's New Year's Eve show, but after 17 minutes of commercials comprising the first 30 minutes I turned it off.  Enough, really.  😞


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Dec 31, 2021)

Happy New Years all.  One last pic before the Glenn 45 SET temporarily has to give up its spot on the desk.






Long time members might notice the amp has the correct amount of glass in it in this photo.    This is the first time in 7 years that the amp has had tube rectifiers in it as originally designed.  The switch to hexfred adapters was done to resolve a number of problems, and now I'm being reminded what some of those problems were.  However, I have grown more and more uneasy about using the hexfreds because the B+ voltage is probably near or possibly even over 300 volts when they are in and that is too high.  The tube rectifiers problematic behavior is still very much an issue though, so I'm not sure how I want to proceed going forward........


----------



## whirlwind (Jan 1, 2022)

Happy New Year everybody. Actually the new year came around about 7 hours ago here.

I am using the Mullard 6080 power tubes also.

I am reaching for these tubes more and more as of late.  Brimar 13D1 in the drivers seat.

I have a late Christmas gift coming to myself in a few days as I ordered the 7Hz Timeless IEM, just have to see what all the hype is about.


----------



## triod750

I am also using a pair of Mullard 6080, NOS but starting to sound good, now with a 1943 Sylvania 7N7 that I am sure is the same tube as my Sylvania 6SN7A/W metal socket. They sound exactly the same. Will now change to Melz 6N8S without round hole plates, 1952. So far, this year seems to be no worse than last year.


----------



## triod750

My Mullard 6080 are branded Philips 6080 SQ but made in Blackburn and now sound good with a Foton ribbed plate 6N8S/6H8C from 1955. Still changing since they only have 30+ hours of use. Initially they sounded disappointing with a lot of pixels left out. They are a bit lean in the bottom end.
This year is as good as yesterday.


----------



## bcowen

triod750 said:


> My Mullard 6080 are branded Philips 6080 SQ but made in Blackburn and now sound good with a Foton ribbed plate 6N8S/6H8C from 1955. Still changing since they only have 30+ hours of use. Initially they sounded disappointing with a lot of pixels left out. They are a bit lean in the bottom end.
> This year is as good as yesterday.


Switched up yesterday to a '59 Svetlana 6H5C and a '54 Foton 6N8S.  Full-bore communist.  Not to the level of the TS 5998/Melz 1578 combo, but quite enjoyable....especially for a pair of tubes that _together_ cost less than $30...


----------



## mordy

bcowen said:


> Switched up yesterday to a '59 Svetlana 6H5C and a '54 Foton 6N8S.  Full-bore communist.  Not to the level of the TS 5998/Melz 1578 combo, but quite enjoyable....especially for a pair of tubes that _together_ cost less than $30...


I hope that that price includes the shipping lol.


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> I hope that that price includes the shipping lol.


I have Amazon Prime, Eastern Bloc Edition.


----------



## gibosi

I've kept the Mullard 6080's installed these past several days while rolling in different drivers and rectifiers. And this roll strikes me as very good. 

Valvo G4004 rectifier (4-volt) and an ECC40 manufactured at Eindhoven in 1955.


----------



## gibosi

Swapped out the ECC40 for a pair of Raytheon Type 76 (about 1935). The Mullard 6080s, the Valvo G4004 rectifier and the Raytheons match up well.


----------



## Galapac (Feb 18, 2022)

post deleted.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


>



Looks Good, Ken.  Always liked the smoothness of the Mullard's.  No doubt the Raytheons add to this Roll to make for some very silky sonics.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 23, 2022)

Talk about great tone, timbre paired with ZMF VC.  Sure makes this Clapton album epic.

Tubes are compliments from @rosgr63


----------



## musicman59

That is a great album!


----------



## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> Talk about great tone, timbre paired with ZMF VC.  Sure makes this Clapton album epic.
> 
> Tubes are compliments from @rosgr63


Love the graphite plate 6080's.  Kings of tone.  Don't have a clue what the other tubes are though.


----------



## whirlwind

musicman59 said:


> That is a great album!


It sure is, this is some dang good pickin    





bcowen said:


> Love the graphite plate 6080's.  Kings of tone.  Don't have a clue what the other tubes are though.


The tubes on the left are 42EC4/PY500....these are the rectifiers and were used in old tv sets.
I have a whole tub full as they were real cheap ....but there really is not much if any change to the sound when rolling in different ones.
They do provide a soft start and I have always loved the glow of them    

The driver tube is Mullard ECC32.  
When @L0rdGwyn  put some 6J5 sockets in my amp, he also biased the ECC32 to have it's peak performance so to speak.
I can't use 6SL7  in my amp now, but no worries on that , the only one I really ever listed with was the ECC35


----------



## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> The tubes on the left are 42EC4/PY500....these are the rectifiers and were used in old tv sets.
> I have a whole tub full as they were real cheap ....but there really is not much if any change to the sound when rolling in different ones.
> They do provide a soft start and I have always loved the glow of them
> 
> ...


Those _do_ have an alluring glow to them.  Are those 'hanging filaments'?  I've seen the reference to that term. but have never seen a good example.


----------



## whirlwind

bcowen said:


> Those _do_ have an alluring glow to them.  Are those 'hanging filaments'?  I've seen the reference to that term. but have never seen a good example.


 I am not sure if these would qualify as hanging filaments or not to be honest.  I have a bunch of different makes and models, but not much change to sound if any.

These were damper diodes in TV's.

Here are a few examples.


----------



## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> I am not sure if these would qualify as hanging filaments or not to be honest.  I have a bunch of different makes and models, but not much change to sound if any.
> 
> These were damper diodes in TV's.
> 
> Here are a few examples.


Ahh.  My bust.  I wasn't paying close attention and was looking at the lead to the anode cap of the 42EC4's.  Wait...that's not an anode cap, it's a cathode cap.  Cool!

Still not sure exactly what makes a filament "hang," but perhaps this illustrates it?  I've only seen it as a description accompanying rectifier tubes...so far.


----------



## whirlwind

bcowen said:


> Ahh.  My bust.  I wasn't paying close attention and was looking at the lead to the anode cap of the 42EC4's.  Wait...that's not an anode cap, it's a cathode cap.  Cool!
> 
> Still not sure exactly what makes a filament "hang," but perhaps this illustrates it?  I've only seen it as a description accompanying rectifier tubes...so far.


 Correct, the wire going to the top of tube just connects to the cap.


----------



## gibosi

bcowen said:


> Ahh.  My bust.  I wasn't paying close attention and was looking at the lead to the anode cap of the 42EC4's.  Wait...that's not an anode cap, it's a cathode cap.  Cool!
> 
> Still not sure exactly what makes a filament "hang," but perhaps this illustrates it?  I've only seen it as a description accompanying rectifier tubes...so far.



And rectifiers with mesh plates illustrate "hanging filaments" very well.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's fairly common for old DHT power tubes to have hanging filaments too.  All of my 45 tubes have hung filaments for example.


----------



## triod750

Xcalibur255 said:


> It's fairly common for old DHT power tubes to have hanging filaments too.  All of my 45 tubes have hung filaments for example.


Some 6B4G too.


----------



## bcowen

gibosi said:


> And rectifiers with mesh plates illustrate "hanging filaments" very well.


Makes sense now.  Thanks!


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> And rectifiers with mesh plates illustrate "hanging filaments" very well.



The 80 globe that Glenn sent me with the EL3N amp also has filaments like these mesh plates at the top
Besides sounding good the mesh plates look pretty cool. sometimes can find a decent deal for the 4 volt.


----------



## ChrisPDX (Feb 28, 2022)

rosgr63 said:


> Actually this humble type is on of my favourite 6SN7's.
> *The black plates are the best sounding ones.*


Can you help me understand the difference between the black and grey plate Mouse Ears ? I have on the way a well-matched pair with one of each, wondering if I made a mistake here. The 6SN7 Reference Thread doesn't indicate any difference (red emphasis below):


adhoc said:


> *Tung-Sol White Label 6SN7GT (1940-50s vintage) [PHOTO HERE]*
> _[made between 1948 and 1956. structure is completely different from the abovementioned Round Plate GTs - these have grey 'T'-plates and a bottom getter. rectangular getter holder. tall bottle with black bases and white labels. these resemble GTBs (the next tube below) except for the bottom getter.]_
> ● “Concurrently with the last days of the TS R-P there was a version with regular ribbed plates - *that could have been grey OR black*, and has the notorious round side mica spacers termed "mouse ears". A very, very good sounding tube. There was a later version that squared ofc those ears - still the same tube, then they dropped the ears all together and the plates were always grey - still a super sounding tube. But it's not commonly found, and unless it has the mouse ears, people often mistake it for Russian - good for me, I love the tube and pick 'em up at dirrt cheap prices and get better performance that most of the big buck stuff.” –Robert H. (in personal correspondence)


Thanks in advance for sharing your insight on this.


----------



## gibosi

ChrisPDX said:


> Can you help me understand the difference between the black and grey plate Mouse Ears ? I have a well-matched pair with one of each, wondering if I made a mistake here. The 6SN7 Reference Thread doesn't indicate any difference (red emphasis below):
> 
> Thanks in advance for sharing your insight on this.



Generally, black plates came first and then grey plates. And sometimes, older tubes sound different than newer tubes. However, I have only one pair, with grey plates, so I can't say....

But I strongly doubt that you made a mistake. My hunch is that since the only construction difference is the color of the plates, the sonic differences are small or maybe even insignificant, and I encourage you to relax and enjoy your "pair".


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> Generally, black plates came first and then grey plates. And sometimes, older tubes sound different than newer tubes. However, I have only one pair, with grey plates, so I can't say....
> 
> But I strongly doubt that you made a mistake. My hunch is that since the only construction difference is the color of the plates, the sonic differences are small or maybe even insignificant, and I encourage you to relax and enjoy your "pair".


Personally, I doubt that you will hear any difference and don't think that it is anything to worry about. Enjoy your purchase!


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> Generally, black plates came first and then grey plates. And sometimes, older tubes sound different than newer tubes. However, I have only one pair, with grey plates, so I can't say....
> 
> But I strongly doubt that you made a mistake. My hunch is that since the only construction difference is the color of the plates, the sonic differences are small or maybe even insignificant, and I encourage you to relax and enjoy your "pair".


My OCD would know there's a difference and that would be enough haha. I would have to go hunting for another matched construction tube.


----------



## triod750

As almost every other person I have a different frequency response in my left ear compared to my right. I doubt that matched ears are very common so matched tubes should be easier to find.


----------



## whirlwind

ChrisPDX said:


> Can you help me understand the difference between the black and grey plate Mouse Ears ? I have on the way a well-matched pair with one of each, wondering if I made a mistake here. The 6SN7 Reference Thread doesn't indicate any difference (red emphasis below):
> 
> Thanks in advance for sharing your insight on this.



I say enjoy your purchase, chance's are you won't hear a difference , even if you swap channels with them.  If after listening , if it  bother's you, try to find a match for one of tubes you already have.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 1, 2022)

If anyone is interested in a fully loaded Glenn OTL, mine is going up for sale towards the end of March. Drop me a pm if interested or want more details.

EDIT: Sold to @robo24


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> If anyone is interested in a fully loaded Glenn OTL, mine is going up for sale towards the end of March. Drop me a pm if interested or want more details.


I'll be surprised to see it last a day after being listed.


----------



## Zachik

Monsterzero said:


> If anyone is interested in a fully loaded Glenn OTL, mine is going up for sale towards the end of March. Drop me a pm if interested or want more details.


Never thought that day would come!!! 
What amp is going to take its place?


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Never thought that day would come!!!
> What amp is going to take its place?


I have the same question...


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> Never thought that day would come!!!
> What amp is going to take its place?





mordy said:


> I have the same question...


It's classified info at the moment, but I will let you guys know when I can.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> It's classified info at the moment, but I will let you guys know when I can.


OK


----------



## Monsterzero

leftside said:


> I'll be surprised to see it last a day after being listed.


A deposit has been paid on my GOTL by @robo24 .

Please help him out as much as everyone in this thread did when I first got my Glenn.


----------



## Monsterzero (Mar 1, 2022)

.


----------



## Galapac (Mar 1, 2022)

Monsterzero said:


> It's classified info at the moment, but I will let you guys know when I can.


Why do I think L0rdGwyn is somehow involved…🤔 but I may be wrong.

EDIT: yeah, I’m wrong, lol.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 18, 2022)

I'm currently spending time with the 1641 rectifier, one manufactured by General Electronics and one manufactured by Raytheon. First impressions, these two sound quite similar. Will have to spend more time with them...




Tonight, a Raytheon 1641 with pairs of Siemens C3g and old 6N5S (mid 1950's. You might notice the RCA-like lower metal shields). The dark 6N5S complements the rather bright Siemens C3g very nicely, I think.


----------



## triod750

Looks like C3g bugle boys .


----------



## Skyediver

I'm about to put my Glenn OTL, with about 90 tubes, up for sale.  All tubes are categorized on a spreadsheet (pic included), and includes a number of hard to obtain/expense but treasured beauties.  I love the setup, purchased locally from @JazzVinyl over a year ago, but deciding to invest in two-channel setup and need the funds.  PM me if interested... or before I come to my senses and change my mind, lol!


----------



## whirlwind

Skyediver said:


> I'm about to put my Glenn OTL, with about 90 tubes, up for sale.  All tubes are categorized on a spreadsheet (pic included), and includes a number of hard to obtain/expense but treasured beauties.  I love the setup, purchased locally from @JazzVinyl over a year ago, but deciding to invest in two-channel setup and need the funds.  PM me if interested... or before I come to my senses and change my mind, lol!



If someone buys the amp and all the tubes....they could have a few hours fun rolling tubes


----------



## bcowen

Monsterzero said:


> Please help him out as much as everyone in this thread did when I first got my Glenn.


How?  By jealously staring at him for hours on end?   😟


----------



## robo24

bcowen said:


> How?  By jealously staring at him for hours on end?   😟


Hours? How about years! 2.5 years in queue and following this thread and had given up ever even getting to hear a Glenn OTL so couldn't be more excited to receive this soon!


----------



## whirlwind

robo24 said:


> Hours? How about years! 2.5 years in queue and following this thread and had given up ever even getting to hear a Glenn OTL so couldn't be more excited to receive this soon!



Oh wow.....congrats to you sir.    

Those ZMF dynamics that you own will sound really nice.


----------



## JazzVinyl

robo24 said:


> Hours? How about years! 2.5 years in queue and following this thread and had given up ever even getting to hear a Glenn OTL so couldn't be more excited to receive this soon!



Hawaii bound!
Have relatives on the Big Island!

Aloha!


----------



## robo24

JazzVinyl said:


> Hawaii bound!
> Have relatives on the Big Island!
> 
> Aloha!


Cool, feel free to contact me for a meetup if you ever visit them.


----------



## JazzVinyl

robo24 said:


> Cool, feel free to contact me for a meetup if you ever visit them.



That would be great!   Appreciate, and enjoy the Glenn!  It is a wonderful prize to have!


----------



## Monsterzero

A little late night tube glow to warm the soul


----------



## bcowen

Monsterzero said:


> A little late night tube glow to warm the soul


Sweet!!!


----------



## Galapac

Monsterzero said:


> A little late night tube glow to warm the soul


..and the house!


----------



## heliosphann

My tubes are bigger @Monsterzero


----------



## JazzVinyl

heliosphann said:


> My tubes are bigger @Monsterzero



And Glow-ier


----------



## gibosi

To make comparisons between the Raytheon and General Electronics 1641, I need two adapters to make it easier to swap between them. And while I am waiting for a second 1641 adapter to arrive from China, thought I play a little:

Telefunken RGN4004 rectifier (1940), a pair of Russian 6N5S (1953) and a pair of National Union Type 76 (mid 1930's). As expected it sounds great.


----------



## triod750

And if you were older it would sound even better!


----------



## gibosi

triod750 said:


> And if you were older it would sound even better!



So.... the worse my hearing gets (with age) the sound gets better? Really?  lol


----------



## triod750

Oh no, nothing of the sort. It's just that old truth that 'older is better'. No less!


----------



## bcowen

triod750 said:


> Oh no, nothing of the sort. It's just that old truth that '*older is better*'. No less!


I approve of this message.  🤣🤣


----------



## gibosi

bcowen said:


> I approve of this message.  🤣🤣



I'd like to think that I am getting better as I grow older...  but I'm not so sure....   lol


----------



## leftside

Taste of winter again this evening. Time to bring out the 300B again 🙂


----------



## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> My tubes are bigger @Monsterzero



Is that WE 422A ?


----------



## heliosphann

whirlwind said:


> Is that WE 422A ?


Maybe...


----------



## Skyediver

Hey Gang.  Just following up on my previous post: I've finally gotten around to posting my Glenn OTL for sale.  The one shift from my previous message is that instead of selling my unit with my bundle of 90+ tubes, but to just streamline the sale to the amp alone.  Cheers!


----------



## heliosphann

Skyediver said:


> Hey Gang.  Just following up on my previous post: I've finally gotten around to posting my Glenn OTL for sale.  The one shift from my previous message is that instead of selling my unit with my bundle of 90+ tubes, but to just streamline the sale to the amp alone.  Cheers!


GLWS, I'm sure it won't last long. 

I'd be possibly interested in some of your tubes if you're going to sell them individually.


----------



## Skyediver

heliosphann said:


> GLWS, I'm sure it won't last long.
> 
> I'd be possibly interested in some of your tubes if you're going to sell them individually.


Yes, a couple of people have expressed interest in getting specific tubes from the tubes list.  I'm open to that, but I do want to focus on completion of the sale of the amp first.  I'd say PM me what you're specifically interested in, thanks.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have a line on another Glenn OTL that needs a new home.  PM me for contact info


----------



## Xcalibur255

For fellow C3g users:  have you noticed a large different in perceived gain/loudness between the Siemens and Lorenz versions of the tube?  I feel like the Lorenz has significantly less gain, the difference in loudness at the same volume knob position is feels like at least 5-6dB to me.  I have multiple pairs of both brands and they all exhibit this behavior consistently.  Considering the electrical specs are the same regardless of brand I find it rather unusual.


----------



## triod750

They sound different to me but I have experienced this as a difference in frequency response. Siemens sound 'brighter' than genuine Lorenz. Have never thought of gain.


----------



## gibosi

triod750 said:


> They sound different to me but I have experienced this as a difference in frequency response. Siemens sound 'brighter' than genuine Lorenz. Have never thought of gain.



My experience is the same. The Siemens are definitely brighter and thus sound louder, whereas the Lorenz are more subdued. And given that the electrical specs are the same, I too am inclined to think this is due to frequency response. But then this is just a WAG on my part.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It sounds to me like a greater difference than can be explained by only differences in frequency response, but I do think that's probably a component of it.  I always feel like I'm being force fed the music whenever I switch from Lorenz to Siemens and there must be something to it.


----------



## triod750

I don't switch to Siemens much anymore since I prefer Lorenz. I'm not able to analyze the reasons for the difference, just to hear it. Of course the synergy with output tubes is a deciding factor.


----------



## mordy

triod750 said:


> I don't switch to Siemens much anymore since I prefer Lorenz. I'm not able to analyze the reasons for the difference, just to hear it. Of course the synergy with output tubes is a deciding factor.


There is a GEC Foots Cray tube called 5A/152M that I believe is similar to the C3g but it has a different pin-out. Does anybody have experience with it?
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5a152m.html




It is not that expensive but I have developed an allergy to more adapters so ATM I don't feel compelled to try it.


----------



## mordy

For some reason I ended up with some less common tubes as my favorite combination in the GOTL. End game? - Don't know, but meanwhile - YES!



Don't know how old the driver tubes are but guessing from the 40's. I am roughly the same age and I also have some wrinkles lol...
This combo is excellent. Perfect match for my Sennheiser HD250II. The main problem is that once I get into listening I don't want to stop and I go to sleep too late.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> For some reason I ended up with some less common tubes as my favorite combination in the GOTL. End game? - Don't know, but meanwhile - YES!
> 
> Don't know how old the driver tubes are but guessing from the 40's. I am roughly the same age and I also have some wrinkles lol...
> This combo is excellent. Perfect match for my Sennheiser HD250II. The main problem is that once I get into listening I don't want to stop and I go to sleep too late.




WOW looks awesome Mordy!

Stay up too late listening?   Noooo, say it isn't so!

I know the feeling!  I am late for bed, as I type   

Glenn-wanna-be's...there is another Glenn GOTL that is avail for sale.

Send me a PM and I will send you contact info.

Cheers!

Now GET TO BED!!


----------



## mordy

Okay okay, I am going to sleep - it's 12:12 in the middle of the night...


----------



## mordy

I think I have a one track mind. When I saw this bottle of seltzer water all I could think of was



Arcturus tubes!


----------



## whirlwind

Don't feel sorry for this one...it lived a "good long hard life"


----------



## Xcalibur255

Uh oh, did he go gassy?


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 1, 2022)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Uh oh, did he go gassy?



Yeah...I had used clear fingernail polish around the base for some time, as it was a bit loose


----------



## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> Don't feel sorry for this one...it lived a "good long hard life"


I think the demise of a TS 5998 deserves at least a moment of silence, just out of respect.


----------



## Monsterzero (Apr 1, 2022)

Tonight will be the final time I will see and hear this lovely combo in my home. Gonna listen to the Atrium and then some VC, and maybe throw in some HD250 for old times sake.

Tomorrow I'm packing my GOTL up, and on Monday, it will begin its journey to Hawaii, where its new owner, @robo24 hopefully will enjoy it as much as I have and take good care of it.

So long dear friend!


----------



## Galapac

Monsterzero said:


> Tonight will be the final time I will see and hear this lovely combo in my home. Gonna listen to the Atrium and then some VC, and maybe throw in some HD250 for old times sake.
> 
> Tomorrow I'm packing my GOTL up, and on Monday, it will begin its journey to Hawaii, where its new owner, @robo24 hopefully will enjoy it as much as I have and take good care of it.
> 
> So long dear friend!


*😞*


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Tonight will be the final time I will see and hear this lovely combo in my home. Gonna listen to the Atrium and then some VC, and maybe throw in some HD250 for old times sake.
> 
> Tomorrow I'm packing my GOTL up, and on Monday, it will begin its journey to Hawaii, where its new owner, @robo24 hopefully will enjoy it as much as I have and take good care of it.
> 
> So long dear friend!



I hope you enjoyed your last listen   and @robo24, this is going to pair well for you and all of those high impedance headphones of yours.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

mordy said:


> There is a GEC Foots Cray tube called 5A/152M that I believe is similar to the C3g but it has a different pin-out. Does anybody have experience with it?
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5a152m.html
> 
> It is not that expensive but I have developed an allergy to more adapters so ATM I don't feel compelled to try it.



I have these tubes, have not listened to them but have measured, another high gm pentode, very linear when triode strapped like a C3g, should sound good.  Some people are using them as a 300B driver.


----------



## robo24 (Apr 12, 2022)

Well I've been enjoying @Monsterzero 's Glenn OTL for a few days. Just amazing!

He sent a lot of tubes but there are a couple we couldn't be sure exactly what they are and what voltage setting to use for them.

The first has 2495 on it. One answer was that it was an FDD20 and would use the 12v setting. Anyone know for sure since I don't want to try anything without being certain.






Thanks!


----------



## mordy

robo24 said:


> Well I've been enjoying @Monsterzero 's Glenn OTL for a few days. Just amazing!
> 
> He sent a lot of tubes but there are a couple we couldn't be sure exactly what they are and what voltage setting to use for them.
> 
> ...


The 1633 is a 25V tube.
The FDD20 is a side contact tube - is the tube on the picture sitting in an adapter? 2495 does not seem to be a tube designation. I have a FDD20 tube, but it was rewired for an octal socket by h1.
If you want to know about a certain tube, there is a good site called Radiomuseum. Just type in Radiomuseum and the tube designation and you will get a lot of useful information:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_1633.html
And congrats on the GOTL! I use it daily and I am very happy with it! (Mine has a Hexfred rectifier).


----------



## robo24 (Apr 12, 2022)

mordy said:


> The 1633 is a 25V tube.
> The FDD20 is a side contact tube - is the tube on the picture sitting in an adapter? 2495 does not seem to be a tube designation. I have a FDD20 tube, but it was rewired for an octal socket by h1.
> If you want to know about a certain tube, there is a good site called Radiomuseum. Just type in Radiomuseum and the tube designation and you will get a lot of useful information:
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_1633.html
> And congrats on the GOTL! I use it daily and I am very happy with it! (Mine has a Hexfred rectifier).


Thank you! Yes, it is in an adapter which I didn't even realize. I found the following info

*Base*Europe side contact P8A (Au P, 8SC) (Codex=Sd)*Filament*Vf 13 Volts / If 0.35 Ampere / Indirect /  Specified voltage AC/DC*Description*With exception of heater ratings and base, this tube is very similar to 6A6 and 6N7G.  
Text in other languages (may differ)*Tube prices*2 Tube prices (visible for members only)*Information source*Taschenbuch zum Röhren-Codex 1948/49   
but would I use the 12 volt or 6 volt setting? It says 13volts above, but also says similar to 6N7G which would be set at 6volts.


Here are a couple pics a little more zoomed.








I confused myself and asked about the 1633 numbered tube I already had an answer for. What I meant to ask about was this rectifier which says 3DG4. I know nothing about it other than that it should work in the Glenn since it was included with my purchase.


----------



## mordy

robo24 said:


> Thank you! Yes, it is in an adapter which I didn't even realize. I found the following info
> 
> *Base*Europe side contact P8A (Au P, 8SC) (Codex=Sd)*Filament*Vf 13 Volts / If 0.35 Ampere / Indirect /  Specified voltage AC/DC*Description*With exception of heater ratings and base, this tube is very similar to 6A6 and 6N7G.
> Text in other languages (may differ)*Tube prices*2 Tube prices (visible for members only)*Information source*Taschenbuch zum Röhren-Codex 1948/49
> ...


It could be the FDD20 but not sure. My adapter was made for the Elise and has two wires for external power 12V so I assume that your adapter was made for the GOTL and that you need to use the 12V setting instead.
The combination of FDD20 and ECC31 was a big hit in the Elise. The FDD20 was made by Italian Philips for automotive use and belongs in the 6SN7 family (although it is 12V tube). 
When I tried the FDD20 in the GOTL I was not very impressed - put it away and can't locate it ATM.
Regarding rectifiers I have no experience - chose solid state rectification.
Our resident expert on rectifiers is Gibosi who also owns an earlier version of the GOTL.


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 13, 2022)

You can use the 3DG4 rectifier, Glenn usually included one with the amp.

The voltage setting is relative to only what drivers you are using.

Have fun and enjoy the music!


----------



## JazzVinyl

robo24 said:


> Thank you! Yes, it is in an adapter which I didn't even realize. I found the following info
> 
> *Base*Europe side contact P8A (Au P, 8SC) (Codex=Sd)*Filament*Vf 13 Volts / If 0.35 Ampere / Indirect /  Specified voltage AC/DC*Description*With exception of heater ratings and base, this tube is very similar to 6A6 and 6N7G.
> Text in other languages (may differ)*Tube prices*2 Tube prices (visible for members only)*Information source*Taschenbuch zum Röhren-Codex 1948/49
> ...


Yes this is the FDD20 12v side contact mount version of a 6N7 as Mordy pointed out.  

Very rare tube these days.  

Works well in GOTL, but was better sounding in the FA Elise.  

😊


----------



## leftside

Another Glenn amp?!
https://www.trafomaticaudio.com/products/glenn/


----------



## triod750

leftside said:


> Another Glenn amp?!
> https://www.trafomaticaudio.com/products/glenn/


Can't find the headphone output. Useless!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

triod750 said:


> Can't find the headphone output. Useless!!



*Outputs:* 4 and 8 ohm
*Output power: *12-26W, depending on the tube and selected plate dissipation setting
*THD:* 4% at maximum power and with 1kHz signal

Hope you have some nice power hungry 4~8 ohm cans


----------



## whirlwind

Happy Easter everybody


----------



## Sajid Amit

Hi Friends,

I want to buy a Glenn OTL for my 300 ohm headphones (6XX, VC, etc)

Anything out there in anyone’s stable you are considering parting with?


----------



## whirlwind

Sajid Amit said:


> Hi Friends,
> 
> I want to buy a Glenn OTL for my 300 ohm headphones (6XX, VC, etc)
> 
> Anything out there in anyone’s stable you are considering parting with?


Good luck, there have been a few for sale here recently, so there is a chance.

I have watched some of your reviews, they are very well done.


----------



## Monsterzero

Sajid Amit said:


> Hi Friends,
> 
> I want to buy a Glenn OTL for my 300 ohm headphones (6XX, VC, etc)
> 
> Anything out there in anyone’s stable you are considering parting with?


@JazzVinyl mentioned he knew of one?


----------



## Silent One

Monsterzero said:


> If anyone is interested in a fully loaded Glenn OTL, mine is going up for sale towards the end of March. Drop me a pm if interested or want more details.
> 
> EDIT: Sold to @robo24
> 
> ...


----------



## Monsterzero

@Silent One 

Thanks! It's a fantastic DAC.

I'm having an OTL built by @L0rdGwyn 
Unfortunately he has decided not to build anymore amps for members, but I got in before he made that decision. His amps sound *really, really* good! 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/l0rdgwyns-diy-audio.921105/


----------



## JazzVinyl

Monsterzero said:


> @JazzVinyl mentioned he knew of one?



AFAIK - there is still a Glenn GOTL available:

Lundahl Transformer
6 power tube sockets
HEXFRED Rectifiers
2x C3g's
1x SN7
6/12/25 heater for SN7
4x 5998 switch

...


----------



## whirlwind

GOTL / Verite Closed / John Mayall Fest this morning.







Life is good!


----------



## Since1991

Reading through this thread got me interested in buying a GOTL. How do you buy one or how do I get on the waitlist?


----------



## whirlwind

Since1991 said:


> Reading through this thread got me interested in buying a GOTL. How do you buy one or how do I get on the waitlist?



Your best bet is to find a used one, it seems Glenn never seems to visit these forums anymore and I have not heard of anybody getting a new amp from him in quite some time.


----------



## Zachik

whirlwind said:


> Your best bet is to find a used one, it seems Glenn never seems to visit these forums anymore and *I have not heard of anybody getting a new amp from him in quite some time*.


I would venture a guess that no new Glenn amp has been built since COVID started 2+ years ago.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Hi Friends,

Need some help here. Do any one has got the contact details of @2359glenn ? Its been a while no one has heard from him here in this thread but I was in touch with him time to time & he clearly told me that he has not stopped building amp + he will build my amp for which I have given the advance as well. So I am still waiting for the build to start but its been a while after he told me getting the chassis for the amp (roughly 2 months now) & no communication after that. I have been trying to connect with him but no luck. I mean after in the queue for more than 2 years & then still this wait & waiting for an answer.
So plz, if anyone has contact of @2359glenn please ask him to get in touch with me or revert at least. I hope he is doing well. 

Best regards


----------



## raindownthunda

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Hi Friends,
> 
> Need some help here. Do any one has got the contact details of @2359glenn ? Its been a while no one has heard from him here in this thread but I was in touch with him time to time & he clearly told me that he has not stopped building amp + he will build my amp for which I have given the advance as well. So I am still waiting for the build to start but its been a while after he told me getting the chassis for the amp (roughly 2 months now) & no communication after that. I have been trying to connect with him but no luck. I mean after in the queue for more than 2 years & then still this wait & waiting for an answer.
> So plz, if anyone has contact of @2359glenn please ask him to get in touch with me or revert at least. I hope he is doing well.
> ...


Try emailing him at the same address you sent the deposit to.


----------



## carlman14

I want to share my situation as well, as I feel people need to know what the current state of the queue is. I have been in the queue for just shy of 3 years now, and haven't had any communication from Glenn in 1 year and 9 months. I have messaged him several times in that period, as well as trying the email associated with his paypal account when I paid him 3 years ago. No response. For a long time now I have been trying to get a refund, as 3 years is a long time for change, and I no longer need the amp and don't feel comfortable having my money tied up in a product that just isn't coming. But no refund has been given either. Further, there have been reports of people saying Glenn will build the amp "soon" or "in x months from now", but it appears no amp has been produced in a long time.

All that being said, I recognize that the last couple years have been tough, and I sincerely hope he's ok and healthy. I miss seeing him around here and I hope we can get some clear information from him soon.


----------



## whirlwind

A few have said that Glenn is building amps again.

He has not posted here in a long time, so who knows.

I would say that everybody's best bet to get ahold of him would be however they communicated with him before.

Hopefully he is doing OK.

 If so I would surely hope there would be some sort of communication.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

raindownthunda said:


> Try emailing him at the same address you sent the deposit to.


I have tried but he is again in a radio silence zone from past 1.5 months.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

carlman14 said:


> I want to share my situation as well, as I feel people need to know what the current state of the queue is. I have been in the queue for just shy of 3 years now, and haven't had any communication from Glenn in 1 year and 9 months. I have messaged him several times in that period, as well as trying the email associated with his paypal account when I paid him 3 years ago. No response. For a long time now I have been trying to get a refund, as 3 years is a long time for change, and I no longer need the amp and don't feel comfortable having my money tied up in a product that just isn't coming. But no refund has been given either. Further, there have been reports of people saying Glenn will build the amp "soon" or "in x months from now", but it appears no amp has been produced in a long time.
> 
> All that being said, I recognize that the last couple years have been tough, and I sincerely hope he's ok and healthy. I miss seeing him around here and I hope we can get some clear information from him soon.


Not sure how many people are in the same state & hoping Glenn will built their amp. Not ethical at all & especially when people trusted, believed in him for such a long time, no matter how hard the last 2 years for all of us (after all we are in the same boat). Not sure if we ever get the amp or our money back.


----------



## bigjako

If he ever does come out of radio silence, I'm sure there are a number of people who are interested in a Glenn and would be happy to buy someone out for their place in the queue.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

whirlwind said:


> A few have said that Glenn is building amps again.
> 
> He has not posted here in a long time, so who knows.
> 
> ...


I have been in touch with him all this time & after some month's silence he comes back with an assurance that he is building amp & some sort of progress. Thus far........ nothing. So now I am not sure what to believe in. Phewwww


----------



## carlman14

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> I have tried but he is again in a radio silence zone from past 1.5 months.





ashwinvyas1981 said:


> Not ethical at all & especially when people trusted, believed in him for such a long time, no matter how hard the last 2 years for all of us (after all we are in the same boat). Not sure if we ever get the amp or our money back.



You heard from him 1.5 months ago? I think that's luckier than most of us. I haven't been able to get a response from him in almost 2 years. I agree it's very frustrating when requests for an update/refund have been met with silence for so long.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

carlman14 said:


> You heard from him 1.5 months ago? I think that's luckier than most of us. I haven't been able to get a response from him in almost 2 years. I agree it's very frustrating when requests for an update/refund have been met with silence for so long.


Yeah... 1.5 mnths ago but it doesn't matter as it is not going anywhere... just skype chats n some video calls....


----------



## Xcalibur255

_All good things......_


----------



## gibosi (May 19, 2022)

I do not know his current situation. However, in 2014, he wrote:

"I am a little slow I have a full time job and I have stage 4 cancer and the medication kicks my ass. So sometimes after work I am to tired to do anything.
And have a few people waiting for amps."

While it certainly would be good if he would explain his current situation, I suspect he is still dealing with cancer, medications that knock him down, and working full time.


----------



## robo24 (May 19, 2022)

I'd do everything possible to get your money now. As far as I know, I'm still technically in queue but I have no confidence what I ordered would ever get built. I ordered Oct 2019 and was told a 6 month wait, gave deposit in April 2020, and finally asked for a refund of the $750 I put down in April 2021. He didn't reply to messages here, but did when I emailed the same address I Paypaled the deposit to. He refunded the money but he sent it as a purchase so I was out the fees for no good reason. I just let it go. I was told probably 10 times that he was actively building mine. At one point I asked specifically if it would be ready in a month since he'd told me a few times he was building it and it would be done soon, because I had an Aeolus I was selling, but wanted to keep it until I at least heard it with the Glen. He assured me it would be. That was August 2020. I've been following this thread and have read every post since Oct 2019. I don't recall a single person posting that they'd gotten their new Glenn in all that time. I don't know what's going on. Hopefully it's just wishful thinking on his part and he's telling himself that he is going to build all those ordered, but just being honest about not actually building anything for years now would be better for all.

Personally I'd advise anyone who has given him money to demand it back. My understanding was he doesn't ask for money until he starts building, but I and many others gave him money well before that in hopes that it would spur him to build them.

No judgment here, because you never know what someone is going through. But better safe than sorry to just get your money back. I've seen 3-4 used for sale in the past year, and got one of them myself. I'd be shocked if any more actually ever get built.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

robo24 said:


> I'd do everything possible to get your money now. As far as I know, I'm still technically in queue but I have no confidence what I ordered would ever get built. I ordered Oct 2019 and was told a 6 month wait, gave deposit in April 2020, and finally asked for a refund of the $750 I put down in April 2021. He didn't reply to messages here, but did when I emailed the same address I Paypaled the deposit to. He refunded the money but he sent it as a purchase so I was out the fees for no good reason. I just let it go. I was told probably 10 times that he was actively building mine. At one point I asked specifically if it would be ready in a month since he'd told me a few times he was building it and it would be done soon, because I had an Aeolus I was selling, but wanted to keep it until I at least heard it with the Glen. He assured me it would be. That was August 2020. I've been following this thread and have read every post since Oct 2019. I don't recall a single person posting that they'd gotten their new Glenn in all that time. I don't know what's going on. Hopefully it's just wishful thinking on his part and he's telling himself that he is going to build all those ordered, but just being honest about not actually building anything for years now would be better for all.
> 
> Personally I'd advise anyone who has given him money to demand it back. My understanding was he doesn't ask for money until he starts building, but I and many others gave him money well before that in hopes that it would spur him to build them.
> 
> No judgment here, because you never know what someone is going through. But better safe than sorry to just get your money back. I've seen 3-4 used for sale in the past year, and got one of them myself. I'd be shocked if any more actually ever get built.


Not sure how will I get my money back. He is not responding to anything......skype calls, his paypal email address, here on headfi PMs or be it this thread. Phewwww.

I completely agree with you, it seems its his wish to built the amps but he is too stuck in his personal life & work which seems quite hectic from past 2 yrs & it would be a shock if we see a new amp.

I wish he is doing well & responds soon to people, at the end of the day it is not a Mammoth of a task to respond to his customers/followers/well wishers.


----------



## whirlwind

I hope everybody gets back what they have coming to them. I am assuming Glenn's health must not be any better than what we last heard. I hope he is doing ok and I wish him well.

I only put down so much when Glenn started my build. I had to pay for updated attenuator, transformer, gold point switches up front.


----------



## maxpudding

It's regrettable that the circumstances have turned out this way. I hope Glenn is doing OK, and he's too busy with work. Man, *** cancer.

I wish you guys all the best to get your money back if he indeed could not deliver the amp that you ordered.


----------



## Toad_of_Toad_Hall

Glenn
If you're reading this I hope you're doing OK.
Nate


----------



## heliosphann

Unfortunate that I received one of the last amps from Glenn. Hope he's okay and that everyone gets their amp or money back, etc...

Been taking a little break from the Atrium and listening to the Verite Open. Trying to fine tune a roll in my GOTL and I hit a real winner:

Western Electric 422a (with adapter)
Sylvania 6SN7GT (Flat, Staggered Plates)
Tung Sol 5998 (x2)
GEC 6080WA (x2)

Although the Sylvania is far from the best input tube I have, it has a special synergy with the VO. In particular it helps correct it's upper-midrange dip.


----------



## whirlwind

A little Tung Sol / Gec  mixed flavor


----------



## heliosphann

whirlwind said:


> A little Tung Sol / Gec  mixed flavor


Yea, I went 5998 and 7236 first and it was good, but a little too clinical sounding. Swapped the GEC's in and the extra bass and warmth meshed perfectly.


----------



## UntilThen

An amp I've love for a long time. Good luck Glenn and thanks for the good times.


----------



## Velozity

Ok I've fretted long enough.  Just listed my GOTL for sale.  Hoping it goes to a good home.


----------



## UntilThen

Velozity said:


> Ok I've fretted long enough.  Just listed my GOTL for sale.  Hoping it goes to a good home.



The 300b amp did that to you?  I must say yours is the most classy GOTL I've ever seen. Not surprised it's already pending.


----------



## maxpudding

Velozity said:


> Ok I've fretted long enough.  Just listed my GOTL for sale.  Hoping it goes to a good home.


Good luck in your sale!


----------



## mordy

Sold in under one hour!


----------



## Velozity

UntilThen said:


> The 300b amp did that to you?  I must say yours is the most classy GOTL I've ever seen. Not surprised it's already pending.



Yeah the Telemachus is my endgame.  I desire for no more amplification than this.  I get goosebumps (literally) with certain songs that I haven't had before.  And I'm falling in love with the HE6SE on this amp.  The power in this thing is infectious.  With the funds from the sale of the GOTL I may try the WE 300B reissues.  Hard to believe a pair of tubes for my new amp will cost me almost the same as what I sold my GOTL for, lol.


----------



## UntilThen

Velozity said:


> Yeah the Telemachus is my endgame.  I desire for no more amplification than this.  I get goosebumps (literally) with certain songs that I haven't had before.  And I'm falling in love with the HE6SE on this amp.  The power in this thing is infectious.  With the funds from the sale of the GOTL I may try the WE 300B reissues.  Hard to believe a pair of tubes for my new amp will cost me almost the same as what I sold my GOTL for, lol.



Hmmm looks like I must have Telemachus. As though I don't have enough tube amps. I sold off my Burson Soloist 3XP to fund the purchase of brand new GEC KT88 and Miniwatt EL34 double D getters brown base. I've not regretted it.

The WE300b is certainly desirable. Who can blame you.


----------



## Velozity

UntilThen said:


> Hmmm looks like I must have Telemachus. As though I don't have enough tube amps. I sold off my Burson Soloist 3XP to fund the purchase of brand new GEC KT88 and Miniwatt EL34 double D getters brown base. I've not regretted it.
> 
> The WE300b is certainly desirable. Who can blame you.




I suspect I'll be angling to try the Susvara next.  But I'm pretty sure my Verite Closed will get buried with me, so those will never be sold to fund another headphone.


----------



## UntilThen

Velozity said:


> I suspect I'll be angling to try the Susvara next.  But I'm pretty sure my Verite Closed will get buried with me, so those will never be sold to fund another headphone.



Now you're getting into dangerous territory. When I had the chance to listen to Susvara with Odyssey a week ago, I couldn't put it down. That's not my Susvara by the way.


----------



## whirlwind

Velozity said:


> Yeah the Telemachus is my endgame.  I desire for no more amplification than this.  I get goosebumps (literally) with certain songs that I haven't had before.  And I'm falling in love with the HE6SE on this amp.  The power in this thing is infectious.  With the funds from the sale of the GOTL I may try the WE 300B reissues.  Hard to believe a pair of tubes for my new amp will cost me almost the same as what I sold my GOTL for, lol.



Congrats on your new 300B amp  

Wow, your OTL sold fast.


----------



## robo24

Can 6SJ7 tubes be used in my Glenn which can take either 1 6SN7 or 2 6J5/12J5? I purchased some 6SJ7 by mistake so will cancel if there is no way they can work. Thanks!


----------



## Zachik

robo24 said:


> Can 6SJ7 tubes be used in my Glenn which can take either 1 6SN7 or 2 6J5/12J5?


6SJ7 is a Pentode tube.
6SN7 is a Double Triode tube.
I would say - no!


----------



## gibosi

The 6SJ7GT is a sharp cut-off pentode which can be strapped as a triode. However, you will need an adapter to run two of them in a single 6SN7GT socket. I have no experience with this tube and have no idea how it might sound. But perhaps someone else might know more?


----------



## robo24

I have 2 6J5 sockets so can they be used in those? I've read a couple comments elsewhere saying a 6SJ7 is half a 6SN7, but I don't know if that's correct. I know a 6J5 is basically half a 6SN7.


----------



## Monsterzero

robo24 said:


> I have 2 6J5 sockets so can they be used in those?


 I would ask @L0rdGwyn as he is the one who did the surgery on your amp.


----------



## robo24

Monsterzero said:


> I would ask @L0rdGwyn as he is the one who did the surgery on your amp.


Thanks, I have done that too, but thought I'd ask here too in case someone else knows.


----------



## gibosi (Jun 22, 2022)

robo24 said:


> I have 2 6J5 sockets so can they be used in those? I've read a couple comments elsewhere saying a 6SJ7 is half a 6SN7, but I don't know if that's correct. I know a 6J5 is basically half a 6SN7.



The 6J5 is a triode. And the 6SJ7 is a pentode. So with an adapter, strapping the 6SJ7 as triodes, they should work. But again, you will need two adapters and I have no idea if it would be worth doing.

Good luck!


----------



## UntilThen

robo24 said:


> Thanks, I have done that too, but thought I'd ask here too in case someone else knows.



It's complicated. 6SJ7 is used as drivers in La Figaro 339. In my previous GOTL, there's c3g input besides the single 6SN7. I guess you can get an adapter maker to use 6SJ7 in the c3g slots. c3g is also a pentode but used as strapped triodes in my GOTL.


----------



## robo24

UntilThen said:


> It's complicated. 6SJ7 is used as drivers in La Figaro 339. In my previous GOTL, there's c3g input besides the single 6SN7. I guess you can get an adapter maker to use 6SJ7 in the c3g slots. c3g is also a pentode but used as strapped triodes in my GOTL.


Thanks, but mine has no c3g slots. They were replaced with 6/12J5. I've cancelled my order since it doesn't seem like it's worth it even if I can find some adapter, which I can't.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> The 6SJ7GT is a sharp cut-off pentode which can be strapped as a triode. However, you will need an adapter to run two of them in a single 6SN7GT socket. I have no experience with this tube and have no idea how it might sound. But perhaps someone else might know more?


Since the 6J5 tube supposedly was developed from the 6J7 tube I decided to try the 6J7 metal and 6J7G glass tubes. (The 6J7 family of tubes have a top anode cap.) My GOTL has sockets for C3g which is a pentode, and Glenn said that it is better to use pentode to pentode sockets than a dual socket to 6SN7.
Deyan made two 6J7 to C3g adapters for me (also work for EL32 and some other tubes). The sound from the 6J7 tubes was good, but I had a persistent problem with hum and no matter what I tried, I could not get rid of the hum, and gave up on these tubes.
If you can find a way to eliminate the hum, the 6J7G tubes are a viable and very inexpensive alternative.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> Since the 6J5 tube supposedly was developed from the 6J7 tube I decided to try the 6J7 metal and 6J7G glass tubes. (The 6J7 family of tubes have a top anode cap.) My GOTL has sockets for C3g which is a pentode, and Glenn said that it is better to use pentode to pentode sockets than a dual socket to 6SN7.
> Deyan made two 6J7 to C3g adapters for me (also work for EL32 and some other tubes). The sound from the 6J7 tubes was good, but I had a persistent problem with hum and no matter what I tried, I could not get rid of the hum, and gave up on these tubes.
> If you can find a way to eliminate the hum, the 6J7G tubes are a viable and very inexpensive alternative.


Mordy, just confirming with you before updating my GOTL tube compatibility table:
6J7 tubes work in C3g sockets, using exact same adapter for EL32 tubes?


----------



## dfiled (Jun 23, 2022)

[Deleted]


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Mordy, just confirming with you before updating my GOTL tube compatibility table:
> 6J7 tubes work in C3g sockets, using exact same adapter for EL32 tubes?


To the best of my knowledge - yes.


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> Mordy, just confirming with you before updating my GOTL tube compatibility table:
> 6J7 tubes work in C3g sockets, using exact same adapter for EL32 tubes?


Actually, @robo24 was asking about 6*S*J7 tubes. Not 6J7... my bad!
@mordy do you know whether 6*S*J7 tubes work in EL32->C3g adapter?


----------



## mordy

Zachik said:


> Actually, @robo24 was asking about 6*S*J7 tubes. Not 6J7... my bad!
> @mordy do you know whether 6*S*J7 tubes work in EL32->C3g adapter?


I checked - the pinout is different and they do *not* work with the EL32 to C3g adapter. Presumably you could have special adapters made for 6SJ7 tubes and it might work.


----------



## Zachik

mordy said:


> I checked - the pinout is different and they do *not* work with the EL32 to C3g adapter. Presumably you could have special adapters made for 6SJ7 tubes and it might work.


Thanks Mordy.
I will NOT be updating my compatibility table then.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> I would ask @L0rdGwyn as he is the one who did the surgery on your amp.



This


----------



## whirlwind

I have been enjoying the heck out of the GEL3N / VC / Peter Green, yesterday, thru part the night, and this morning.

So dang enjoyable....You can just feel the emotion from this guys guitar....what a crazy life he had.






GEL3N in one tube mode, volume at about 75%......Good stuff. The EL3N tubes are just along for the ride in this mode.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> I have been enjoying the heck out of the GEL3N / VC / Peter Green, yesterday, thru part the night, and this morning.
> 
> So dang enjoyable....You can just feel the emotion from this guys guitar....what a crazy life he had.
> 
> ...


Peter Green was amazing, and probably the most overlooked guitarist in rock history to the casual rock fan. You always hear about Hendrix, Page and Clapton, and rightfully so, but Peter Green deserves to be mentioned in that same class. To illustrate my point I once used a photo of Peter Green as my Facebook profile pic, and not a single person knew who it was. 

My three fav solo Peter Green songs.


----------



## Xcalibur255

whirlwind said:


> I have been enjoying the heck out of the GEL3N / VC / Peter Green, yesterday, thru part the night, and this morning.
> 
> So dang enjoyable....You can just feel the emotion from this guys guitar....what a crazy life he had.
> 
> ...


I've always been curious, are the heaters actually switched off on the front pair of tubes when in one tube mode?  My gut tells me this would be hard to implement but it would be cool if it's setup that way.


----------



## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> Peter Green was amazing, and probably the most overlooked guitarist in rock history to the casual rock fan. You always hear about Hendrix, Page and Clapton, and rightfully so, but Peter Green deserves to be mentioned in that same class. To illustrate my point I once used a photo of Peter Green as my Facebook profile pic, and not a single person knew who it was.
> 
> My three fav solo Peter Green songs.



That is funny story.  Ha.

Yes, Peter is a treasure for sure.





Xcalibur255 said:


> I've always been curious, are the heaters actually switched off on the front pair of tubes when in one tube mode?  My gut tells me this would be hard to implement but it would be cool if it's setup that way.


No they are not.


----------



## robo24 (Jul 4, 2022)

Question on a certain rectifier. This page lists a GZ34 5690 RCA, but I can't find anywhere else which says this tube is a GZ34 which I know would work in my GlennOTL.
Was able to find this page on the 5690, and another on the GZ34 and even with my very limited understanding of tubes, looks like the specs are very different.

I don't want to try the 5690 if there's any chance of damaging the amp or other installed tubes, but I actually bought it based on the GZ34 description and it literally being the first thing in the ad. Can't get any info from the seller. Anyone know anything about using this 5690 tube? Thanks!

Update:Seller fully refunded and I don't have to even send back.


----------



## gibosi

robo24 said:


> Question on a certain rectifier. This page lists a GZ34 5690 RCA, but I can't find anywhere else which says this tube is a GZ34 which I know would work in my GlennOTL.
> Was able to find this page on the 5690, and another on the GZ34 and even with my very limited understanding of tubes, looks like the specs are very different.
> 
> I don't want to try the 5690 if there's any chance of damaging the amp or other installed tubes, but I actually bought it based on the GZ34 description and it literally being the first thing in the ad. Can't get any info from the seller. Anyone know anything about using this 5690 tube? Thanks!



You are wise to hesitate. 

Note that the heater voltage, Vf, is 12.6 Volts. The GZ34 is 5 volts. And except for the 3DG4, the only rectifiers you can use in your GOTL, without a special adapter, are 5 volt rectifiers. So the 5690 cannot be used in your GOTL.

And also note, from this example, vendors' descriptions cannot be trusted.


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> Since the 6J5 tube supposedly was developed from the 6J7 tube I decided to try the 6J7 metal and 6J7G glass tubes. (The 6J7 family of tubes have a top anode cap.) My GOTL has sockets for C3g which is a pentode, and Glenn said that it is better to use pentode to pentode sockets than a dual socket to 6SN7.
> Deyan made two 6J7 to C3g adapters for me (also work for EL32 and some other tubes). The sound from the 6J7 tubes was good, but I had a persistent problem with hum and no matter what I tried, I could not get rid of the hum, and gave up on these tubes.
> If you can find a way to eliminate the hum, the 6J7G tubes are a viable and very inexpensive alternative.


Tthe 6J7 familly do have Top Cap connected to grid and not to anode. Same pin out as EL32 or 6U7 so if you have 6J5 or C3g adapter for EL32, 6J7 can be used with Same Adapter.
6SJ7 need a specific adapter to be connected to 6J5 or C3g adapter:
For 6J5 : Pinout to base
1 - 
2 - 2
3 - 8
4 - 5
5 - 8
6 - 3 (with  100R)
7 - 7
8 - 3

For C3g you need specific Loatal base
1 -
2 - 1
3  - 2
4 -  6
5 - 8
6 - 4
7 - 8
8 - 3


----------



## robo24

gibosi said:


> You are wise to hesitate.
> 
> Note that the heater voltage, Vf, is 12.6 Volts. The GZ34 is 5 volts. And except for the 3DG4, the only rectifiers you can use in your GOTL, without a special adapter, are 5 volt rectifiers. So the 5690 cannot be used in your GOTL.
> 
> And also note, from this example, vendors' descriptions cannot be trusted.


Some good news, finally heard back from the vendor who admitted his mistake and fully refunded me without having to send the tube back! So an honest mistake it seems and just glad it got resolved.


----------



## Monsterzero

robo24 said:


> Some good news, finally heard back from the vendor who admitted his mistake and fully refunded me without having to send the tube back! So an honest mistake it seems and just glad it got resolved.


 Didnt I send you a GZ32 and GZ34? 
Tired of the GEC U18/20? Have you tried that other 4v rectifier I sent you?


----------



## robo24

Monsterzero said:


> Didnt I send you a GZ32 and GZ34?
> Tired of the GEC U18/20? Have you tried that other 4v rectifier I sent you?


I've tried them all! Been using the Tungsram lately which I really like but not sure exactly why. So now since this not-GZ34 won't work I still just have the ones you've included. There's no rhyme or reason for any of it for me honestly, and I've been on a tube buying binge. I think I remember saying to you that I planned not to buy more since you were including so many, but that I was probably lying to myself, and sure enough, lol. I just like the constant variety and I'd read some about their line of red-based tubes. Also got a red 5691 for the 6SN7 slot so at least that will work and have read good things about it. Problem is now I have way more tubes than time to even really be able to compare them well.

The thing is I've still yet to find a roll I strongly dislike and even all these cheap, black metal 6C5s and such have just been amazing!


----------



## mordy

robo24 said:


> I've tried them all! Been using the Tungsram lately which I really like but not sure exactly why. So now since this not-GZ34 won't work I still just have the ones you've included. There's no rhyme or reason for any of it for me honestly, and I've been on a tube buying binge. I think I remember saying to you that I planned not to buy more since you were including so many, but that I was probably lying to myself, and sure enough, lol. I just like the constant variety and I'd read some about their line of red-based tubes. Also got a red 5691 for the 6SN7 slot so at least that will work and have read good things about it. Problem is now I have way more tubes than time to even really be able to compare them well.
> 
> The thing is I've still yet to find a roll I strongly dislike and even all these cheap, black metal 6C5s and such have just been amazing!


When you have a good amp almost everything sounds good. As time goes by it is possible to find those tube combinations that are still better than others, and even outstanding ones.


----------



## whirlwind

robo24 said:


> I've tried them all! Been using the Tungsram lately which I really like but not sure exactly why. So now since this not-GZ34 won't work I still just have the ones you've included. There's no rhyme or reason for any of it for me honestly, and I've been on a tube buying binge. I think I remember saying to you that I planned not to buy more since you were including so many, but that I was probably lying to myself, and sure enough, lol. I just like the constant variety and I'd read some about their line of red-based tubes. Also got a red 5691 for the 6SN7 slot so at least that will work and have read good things about it. Problem is now I have way more tubes than time to even really be able to compare them well.
> 
> The thing is I've still yet to find a roll I strongly dislike and even all these cheap, black metal 6C5s and such have just been amazing!


Nice to hear you are enjoying the amp so much.

There are a lot of nice sounding 6/12SN7 tubes, but the 6/12J5 tubes and the 6C5 tubes are much cheaper and easier to find if looking for NOS tubes.


----------



## Monsterzero

whirlwind said:


> Nice to hear you are enjoying the amp so much.
> 
> There are a lot of nice sounding 6/12SN7 tubes, but the 6/12J5 tubes and the 6C5 tubes are much cheaper and easier to find if looking for NOS tubes.


Speaking of that, is there a 6j5 equivelant to the Tung Sol BGRP? Photo please if you got it.


----------



## mordy

Monsterzero said:


> Speaking of that, is there a 6j5 equivelant to the Tung Sol BGRP? Photo please if you got it.


Not to the best of my recollection. But the Tung Sol 6J5GT clear glass pack a good bass punch.
I don’t have the 6J5G TS tubes but I read that it is a top tier tube.
Maybe time to explore the ugly duckling TS 6J5 metal tubes?


----------



## Monsterzero

mordy said:


> Maybe time to explore the ugly duckling TS 6J5 metal tubes?


 Already have a pair of black can TS. Yes, not beautiful looking, and while they sound decent enough, theyre def not BGRPs


----------



## dminches

What is the best way to fix a loose tube base?  The tube works fine but the base moves. I assume I should use an epoxy or silicone?  Can someone recommend something?


----------



## mordy

dminches said:


> What is the best way to fix a loose tube base?  The tube works fine but the base moves. I assume I should use an epoxy or silicone?  Can someone recommend something?


I use crazy glue in a little bottle with a brush. Just put in a little bit (a drop or two) and brush it into the space between the tube glass and base. Then hold everything in place for 60 seconds; afterwards I let it sit and dry for 24 hours.
Gibosi likes to use nail polish in the same way - with nail polish you can reseat the glass using nail polish remover if something goes wrong.
Crazy glue is kind of final - I have a working tube that looks like the leaning tower of Pisa...


----------



## mordy (Jul 5, 2022)

Monsterzero said:


> Already have a pair of black can TS. Yes, not beautiful looking, and while they sound decent enough, theyre def not BGRPs


Just put in a pair Tung Sol 6J5 - not bad at all. The problem I have is that I don't know if they are Tung Sol tubes - maybe they were made by RCA.
Some Tung Sol tubes have the regular military date codes (instead of number/letter combinations):




322 = Tung Sol EIA number
5652-3 = December 1956 factory #3.
The same tube pictured above has more designations on the rim of the tube with a dating system used by RCA:



*RCA DATE OF SHIPMENT From 1-1-36 to 7-1-45* The shipping date code for RCA-brand tubes used a letter for the year, plus a number (1 to 6) for each two-month period within the year, plus "E" for OEM sales. Lack of "E" indicates a tube for distributor sale. Whether the letter is to the right or left of the year letter indicates which month of the two possibilities (only 6 numbers for the months). Here are the year designations:
1936 Z  1937 U  1938 T  1939 X  1940 R  1941 Y  1942 S  1943 K  1944 H
1945 V
According to the RCA system, the Tung Sol labeled tube above which has a TS date of Dec 1956 and a RCA code 3Y was made in 1943 May-June. (To clarify - if it had said Y3 it might be May 1943 and 3Y = June 1943).
We do know that the all metal tubes were abandoned by the US defense forces because glass tubes were cheaper to manufacture. I have seen all metal tubes dated 1973, and even an all metal tube dated 1956 seems out of place.

Don't know what to make out of this - maybe gibosi can weigh in?

Here is an interesting link explaining why all metal tubes are better than glass tubes (although no mention of sound quality):
https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-craft/now-metal-tubes-june-1935-radio-craft.htm

Here is another link to the "medical vacuum tube department" - an autopsy of a metal 6J5 tube - very interesting:
http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-018.htm


----------



## gibosi (Jul 5, 2022)

mordy said:


> Just put in a pair Tung Sol 6J5 - not bad at all. The problem I have is that I don't know if they are Tung Sol tubes - maybe they were made by RCA.
> Some Tung Sol tubes have the regular military date codes (instead of number/letter combinations):
> 
> 322 = Tung Sol EIA number
> ...



I don't believe that Tung-Sol ever made all-metal tubes. Given that they were more expensive to manufacture and required specialized factory equipment, many manufacturers, especially the smaller ones like Tung-Sol, passed. Although, some companies simply mounted a glass octal inside a metal shell. 

So I'm inclined to believe that Mordy's Tung-Sol is a relabeled RCA.


----------



## gibosi

dminches said:


> What is the best way to fix a loose tube base?  The tube works fine but the base moves. I assume I should use an epoxy or silicone?  Can someone recommend something?



Hard nail polish ("Hard as Nails") or crazy glue and a couple rubber bands. And a Cossor 53KU is good to go.


----------



## mordy

gibosi said:


> I don't believe that Tung-Sol ever made all-metal tubes. Given that they were more expensive to manufacture and required specialized factory equipment, many manufacturers, especially the the smaller ones like Tung-Sol, passed. Although, some companies simply mounted a glass octal inside a metal shell.
> 
> So I'm inclined to believe that Mordy's Tung-Sol is a relabeled RCA.


Right now I am using a pair of metal 6J5 tubes, both are labeled Tung Sol and from January 1944. One has the RCA rim markings and the other one not. They sound a little different with the Tung Sol tube having more bass. 
IMHO it seems plausible that Tung Sol made metal tubes since such tubes  were in production from 1935 until at least the end of the 40's.


----------



## ashwinvyas1981 (Jul 5, 2022)

@2359glenn...........................................................where are you? Hope doing well. 
If so, please care to respond.


----------



## Zachik

ashwinvyas1981 said:


> @2359glenn...........................................................where are you? Hope doing well.
> If so, please care to respond.


Anyone heard from Glenn in 2022 at all?
Last I heard from him was literally Dec. 31, 2021...


----------



## ashwinvyas1981

Zachik said:


> Anyone heard from Glenn in 2022 at all?
> Last I heard from him was literally Dec. 31, 2021...


No man! As far as I recall.... many customers with a commitment but no output. Not sure what we did wrong to deserve this , a financial loss to all who paid some advance.


----------



## Xcalibur255

dminches said:


> What is the best way to fix a loose tube base?  The tube works fine but the base moves. I assume I should use an epoxy or silicone?  Can someone recommend something?


My preference is clear nail polish.  A drop at each end into the crack between the glass and base then quickly wipe the extra off the glass.  There's a debate about whether you want something hard or soft to account for thermal expansion of the glass but I haven't had an issue yet using the nail polish.  I suspect many of the rubberized superglues would lose their bond from the heat too.


----------



## Xcalibur255 (Jul 5, 2022)

Monsterzero said:


> Speaking of that, is there a 6j5 equivelant to the Tung Sol BGRP? Photo please if you got it.


Tung-Sol never made a round plate 6J5 (though quite a few people did, Sylvania, Raytheon, National Union for starters).   They did make a ladder plate 6J5 that I personally think sounds good, you can find them in both the older coke bottle "G" style and the newer ST glass with metal base.


----------



## TLO (Jul 6, 2022)

Xcalibur255 said:


> My preference is clear nail polish.  A drop at each end into the crack between the glass and base then quickly wipe the extra off the glass.  There's a debate about whether you want something hard or soft to account for thermal expansion of the glass but I haven't had an issue yet using the nail polish.  I suspect many of the rubberized superglues would lose their bond from the heat too.


Just for clarification, are you using nail polish or nail polish remover? I have been using remover with great result..the idea is the remover will soften the original compound and harden it again when dried. Yes, it only works best when the old compound is still present and have not fallen off. One last thing to note, based on my experience...after applying the remover and before it dried, there is a chance there are shorts between the pins. I have no ideas why but this happened to me a couple of times checking with a multimeter right after the application. Thought the tubes are bad but turned out to be fine after the compound is dried. I am still wondering what causes the conduction as I believe the compound is a non conductor.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 6, 2022)

Monsterzero said:


> Speaking of that, is there a 6j5 equivelant to the Tung Sol BGRP? Photo please if you got it.



Unfortunately , I only own the metal base 6J5GT Tung Sol tubes, and they are the ladder plates.
They sound nice, but I would not say they are equivalent to BGRP. I don't own any of the 6J5 coke bottle tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

TLO said:


> Just for clarification, are you using nail polish or nail polish remover? I have been using remover with great result..the idea is the remover will soften the original compound and harden it again when dried. Yes, it only works best when the old compound is still present and have not fallen off. One last thing to note, based on my experience...after applying the remover and before it dried, there is a chance there are shorts between the pins. I have no ideas why but this happened to me a couple of times checking with a multimeter right after the application. Thought the tubes are bad but turned out to be fine after the compound is dried. I am still wondering what causes the conduction as I believe the compound is a non conductor.


Clear polish, not remover.  Perhaps the remover isn't drying quickly enough and is conducting?  I can't think of any other explanation for such a phenomenon.


----------



## TLO

Xcalibur255 said:


> Clear polish, not remover.  Perhaps the remover isn't drying quickly enough and is conducting?  I can't think of any other explanation for such a phenomenon.


The only explanation is there could be some metallic minerals in the remover. Though the multimeter detected shorts but the readings are always very weak.


----------



## gibosi

TLO said:


> Just for clarification, are you using nail polish or nail polish remover? I have been using remover with great result..the idea is the remover will soften the original compound and harden it again when dried. Yes, it only works best when the old compound is still present and have not fallen off. One last thing to note, based on my experience...after applying the remover and before it dried, there is a chance there are shorts between the pins. I have no ideas why but this happened to me a couple of times checking with a multimeter right after the application. Thought the tubes are bad but turned out to be fine after the compound is dried. I am still wondering what causes the conduction as I believe the compound is a non conductor.



As soon as I apply the liquid nail polish and stabilize the base and bottle with rubber bands, I store it upside down for 24 hours to prevent the liquid from dribbling down into the base. That said, I have never checked a tube with a multimeter immediately after the application....


----------



## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> Unfortunately , I only own the metal base 6J5GT Tung Sol tubes, and they are the ladder plates.
> They sound nice, but I would not say they are equivalent to BGRP. I don't own any of the *6J5 coke bottle tubes.*



They are nice.  Not spectacular in my amp though.  Nice mids, good bass, but the top end is rather soft (which is not the case with the GT's).


----------



## Deyan

gibosi said:


> Hard nail polish ("Hard as Nails") or crazy glue and a couple rubber bands. And a Cossor 53KU is good to go.



CA glue is somewhat conductive, so use it sparingly. 

I find the best solution to be high temp gasket maker silicone.


----------



## mordy

Deyan said:


> CA glue is somewhat conductive, so use it sparingly.
> 
> I find the best solution to be high temp gasket maker silicone.


Is CA glue (Cyanoacrylate Adhesive) the same as Crazyglue?


----------



## Deyan

mordy said:


> Is CA glue (Cyanoacrylate Adhesive) the same as Crazyglue?


We don't have crazy glue here, but I'm almost certain that all types of super glue are CA based.


----------



## mordy

Deyan said:


> We don't have crazy glue here, but I'm almost certain that all types of super glue are CA based.


Looked it up:
Krazy Glue contains *99.95% ethyl cyanoacrylate and 0.05% acrylic*.
Do you think it is a problem since I usually just put on a very small amount (maybe two drops) that I brush into the space between the tube socket and the glass?


----------



## Deyan

mordy said:


> Looked it up:
> Krazy Glue contains *99.95% ethyl cyanoacrylate and 0.05% acrylic*.
> Do you think it is a problem since I usually just put on a very small amount (maybe two drops) that I brush into the space between the tube socket and the glass?


In small amounts it's fine, that's why i said use sparingly. An issue might arise if it leaks in-between the pins.


----------



## mordy

Deyan said:


> In small amounts it's fine, that's why i said use sparingly. An issue might arise if it leaks in-between the pins.


Thanks


----------



## Ultrainferno (Aug 29, 2022)

Hi guys, I haven't been in this thread for a very long time, and I come with bad news. Those of you who where here many years ago will certainly remember Clayton SF. I met Clayton over 10 years ago on a different site, and then we by chance connected here on Headfi as well. After a lot of online talking, we became friends and we travelled to see each other many times. We both own Glenn amps.

I am very sad to tell you today that he after an unfair fight with cancer has passed away a few days ago. I can't believe I am typing this here, he was such a nice guy and a great friend. He will be truly missed but never forgotten.


----------



## iFi audio

Ultrainferno said:


> Hi guys, I haven't been in this thread for a very long time, and I come with bad news. Those of you who where here many years ago will certainly remember Clayton SF. I met Clayton over 10 years ago on a different site, and then we by chance connected here on Headfi as well. After a lot of online talking, we became friends and we travelled to see each other many times.
> 
> I am very sad to tell you today that he after an unfair fight with cancer has passed away a few days ago. I can't believe I am typing this here, he was such a nice guy and a great friend. He will be truly missed but never forgotten.



I'm so sorry for your loss, stay strong!


----------



## MIKELAP

Ultrainferno said:


> Hi guys, I haven't been in this thread for a very long time, and I come with bad news. Those of you who where here many years ago will certainly remember Clayton SF. I met Clayton over 10 years ago on a different site, and then we by chance connected here on Headfi as well. After a lot of online talking, we became friends and we travelled to see each other many times.
> 
> I am very sad to tell you today that he after an unfair fight with cancer has passed away a few days ago. I can't believe I am typing this here, he was such a nice guy and a great friend. He will be truly missed but never forgotten.


Time unfortunately is flying by for all of us that have been on here for awhile . Sorry for your loss


----------



## rosgr63

Ultrainferno said:


> Hi guys, I haven't been in this thread for a very long time, and I come with bad news. Those of you who where here many years ago will certainly remember Clayton SF. I met Clayton over 10 years ago on a different site, and then we by chance connected here on Headfi as well. After a lot of online talking, we became friends and we travelled to see each other many times. We both own Glenn amps.
> 
> I am very sad to tell you today that he after an unfair fight with cancer has passed away a few days ago. I can't believe I am typing this here, he was such a nice guy and a great friend. He will be truly missed but never forgotten.



Very sorry to hear this Lieven.

Clayton was a wonderful person and a very dear friend.

I will miss him so much.

He's an angel amongst other angels.


----------



## UntilThen

This is sad news. Don't know Clayton personally but seen his posts lots. Nice chap from the way he writes. It's amazing to see all the old timers coming by to pay respect.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Ultrainferno said:


> Hi guys, I haven't been in this thread for a very long time, and I come with bad news. Those of you who where here many years ago will certainly remember Clayton SF. I met Clayton over 10 years ago on a different site, and then we by chance connected here on Headfi as well. After a lot of online talking, we became friends and we travelled to see each other many times. We both own Glenn amps.
> 
> I am very sad to tell you today that he after an unfair fight with cancer has passed away a few days ago. I can't believe I am typing this here, he was such a nice guy and a great friend. He will be truly missed but never forgotten.


Very sad news.  Whenever somebody stops coming around for a long time I'm always afraid it's something like this.  Always heart-breaking for it to turn out to be the case.  He was one of the founding members of this group and will be fondly remembered.


----------



## CEE TEE

Ultrainferno said:


> Hi guys, I haven't been in this thread for a very long time, and I come with bad news. Those of you who where here many years ago will certainly remember Clayton SF. I met Clayton over 10 years ago on a different site, and then we by chance connected here on Headfi as well. After a lot of online talking, we became friends and we travelled to see each other many times. We both own Glenn amps.
> 
> I am very sad to tell you today that he after an unfair fight with cancer has passed away a few days ago. I can't believe I am typing this here, he was such a nice guy and a great friend. He will be truly missed but never forgotten.


Oh no...that is so sad to hear.  Clayton was super kind, a true lover of tube amps, and a real community member.  
Way back when, I was blown away by his "wall of woo" at the time (I called it) and then followed in his footsteps (in my own way).
Finally starting to meet with people in the Bay Area again.  Hoped to see a lot of the old crew sometime.  Sorry to miss Clayton now...


----------



## Sonic Defender

This is sad news indeed. My condolences to his family and friends. I am very glad that there are members here who share news like this. Although it is very tragic, it does give a way for the lost to have their community life here celebrated and witnessed. It sounds like Clayton was quite a nice person and this community has clearly lost a valued member. Rest in peace.


----------



## whirlwind

Ultrainferno said:


> Hi guys, I haven't been in this thread for a very long time, and I come with bad news. Those of you who where here many years ago will certainly remember Clayton SF. I met Clayton over 10 years ago on a different site, and then we by chance connected here on Headfi as well. After a lot of online talking, we became friends and we travelled to see each other many times. We both own Glenn amps.
> 
> I am very sad to tell you today that he after an unfair fight with cancer has passed away a few days ago. I can't believe I am typing this here, he was such a nice guy and a great friend. He will be truly missed but never forgotten.



So sorry to hear this. I never met him, but I much enjoyed his post and even more his pictures of his audio room.

R.I.P.


----------



## musicman59

In my 18 years here in HeadFi I never had the chance to meet Clayton in person but I really enjoyed and valued his posts.
RIP, I raise my glass and bow my head. 🙏


----------



## parbaked

Fock cancer!
This one hurts...
I met Clayton in 2014 through this thread. 
We both love to eat and drink and became fast friends.
We spent many Thursday evenings at El Amigo drinking excellent $5 margaritas.
Rachel the bartender would let him choose albums to spin.
Then we'd stumble to Pizza Hacker for a bite before he bussed home. 
When Rachel left El Amigio we'd meet at Glen Park Station for cheap martinis and pizza at Gialina's
Sundays he often came over to make Sunday gravy and drink wine.
There were dozens of great meals at Capital, our favorite Chinese joint.
He always came over for Christmas and Thanksgiving. He was family.

Clayton was a star.
He was kind and smart and a good friend.
He had too many amps...a whole closet full of boxes. 
He didn't roll tubes, he rolled amps!
It was silly.
He loved music even more than amps. 
He worked at Tower Records as a teen in Honolulu and music stuck with him.
He might have loved food even more than music. 
It's what we talked about most.

Through Covid, then cancer, we couldn't hang out.
We kept hoping he'd get better.
He deserved better.
I miss my friend.
I didn't get to say goodbye.
I hope to see him again...
Fock cancer!


----------



## Monsterzero

parbaked said:


> Fock cancer!
> This one hurts...
> I met Clayton in 2014 through this thread.
> We both love to eat and drink and became fast friends.
> ...


Great tribute to who sounds like a wonderful human. I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.


----------



## whirlwind

parbaked said:


> Fock cancer!
> This one hurts...
> I met Clayton in 2014 through this thread.
> We both love to eat and drink and became fast friends.
> ...



Great tribute indeed.    

Remember the good times.


----------



## musicman59

parbaked said:


> Fock cancer!
> This one hurts...
> I met Clayton in 2014 through this thread.
> We both love to eat and drink and became fast friends.
> ...


Great tribute indeed!
You did not loose a friends, you lost a brother   
I feel your lose 
That happened to me almost 3 years ago. My best friend for over 40 years left me suddenly (massive heart attack) couldn’t say good bye.
He was one of the most friendly, funny and good people Inhave ever met.
I miss him a lot.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am shocked and saddened by this news. I am looking at the USAF-296 tube he gifted to me that I use in my Studio 6. We had so many great conversations about tubes and amps. Lots of great Decware conversations. What a loss to the community.


----------



## longbowbbs

A post from Clayton's FB page. It is a good post for him.


----------



## musicman59

That is a great post!


----------



## longbowbbs

musicman59 said:


> That is a great post!


Thank you. It was great seeing you at Axpona.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

longbowbbs said:


> A post from Clayton's FB page. It is a good post for him.


That last line really resonates with this hobby.


----------



## longbowbbs

Not worth arguing about what other people think is best. They are your ears.


----------



## robo24

Quite some glow even with the front two RT 6C5V


----------



## Monsterzero

How are those RT? Been looking at em, but damn pricey


----------



## robo24

Monsterzero said:


> How are those RT? Been looking at em, but damn pricey


Can never describe too well, but spent a day trying out all the driver tubes and they made the top 10 which I keep near my desk for easy rolling. The Fivre 6C5G (also Langrex) I like a little better--seem to have unique wide staging--but they have more noise than any other tubes I have and definitely worse with 6 6BX7.


----------



## DaemonSire (Oct 6, 2022)

So I've been eyeing a GOTL for years and was ready to pull the trigger, but see that Glenn is MIA now.

Does anyone have any recommendations for an alternative or know if Glenn will be back?


----------



## Galapac

@DaemonSire  - Check this thread for alternatives. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/


----------



## DaemonSire

Galapac said:


> @DaemonSire  - Check this thread for alternatives. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/


I'll take a look, thanks!

I hope Glenn is alright...


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's unclear when the last time anybody heard from him was.  I've sent a few best wishes messages but never heard back.


----------



## Monsterzero

DaemonSire said:


> So I've been eyeing a GOTL for years and was ready to pull the trigger, but see that Glenn is MIA now.
> 
> Does anyone have any recommendations for an alternative or know if Glenn will be back?


You can also follow this thread, although currently he is not building any amps himself. He has an " easy to build" DIY amp coming out.
I own one of his amps and enjoyed it so much I sold my GOTL.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/l0rdgwyns-diy-audio.921105/page-359#post-17180334


----------



## robo24

Really loving my GOTL today! Just got a new LCD-3 (which are higher impedence than many planars) and ended up rolling Cetron 6336Bs, GEC U18/20, and Tung Sol BGRP 12SN7GT and I'm preferring it over my other amps, even the solid states. With this particular roll and that planar bass it's really just an amazing creamy-mids and rich, detailed bass experience. Glad I didn't just dismiss spending much time with the Glenn since OTLs aren't supposed to be great with planars. Also gives me hope that the ZMF Caldera will match well with the Glenn with the right roll. Got this decade old headphone to scratch that planar itch until I eventually own the Caldera.


----------



## Monsterzero

robo24 said:


> Tung Sol BGRP 12SN7GT


 Man, I absolutely adore that tube. I dont think there is a 6J5 equivalent, which bums me out to no end. I was telling @Pharmaboy to seek out the 6v version for his amp, but he needs a pair. He nearly fell out of his chair checking prices on em.


----------



## Zachik

robo24 said:


> Really loving my GOTL today! Just got a new LCD-3 (which are higher impedence than many planars) and ended up rolling Cetron 6336Bs, GEC U18/20, and Tung Sol BGRP 12SN7GT and I'm preferring it over my other amps, even the solid states. With this particular roll and that planar bass it's really just an amazing creamy-mids and rich, detailed bass experience. Glad I didn't just dismiss spending much time with the Glenn since OTLs aren't supposed to be great with planars. Also gives me hope that the ZMF Caldera will match well with the Glenn with the right roll. Got this decade old headphone to scratch that planar itch until I eventually own the Caldera.


LCD-3 has impedance of 110 ohms. 
Caldera impedance is roughly half, I believe. That means Caldera *could* behave quite differently on OTL...


----------



## robo24

Monsterzero said:


> Man, I absolutely adore that tube. I dont think there is a 6J5 equivalent, which bums me out to no end. I was telling @Pharmaboy to seek out the 6v version for his amp, but he needs a pair. He nearly fell out of his chair checking prices on em.


Yikes, I guess I should be thrilled I got this tube for $40.


----------



## Monsterzero

robo24 said:


> Yikes, I guess I should be thrilled I got this tube for $40.


 Thats the beauty of 6/12/25v switch in the back. 12v versions of 6sn7s are pennies on the dollar.


----------



## Monsterzero

Zachik said:


> LCD-3 has impedance of 110 ohms.
> Caldera impedance is roughly half, I believe. That means Caldera *could* behave quite differently on OTL...


 I don't recall what the GOTL can get down to w/ the 6336 tubes in place, but the Airmid gets down to 30 ohms with 5998 or 421a, and while the Caldera doesnt sound _bad_ on the Airmid, it's clearly not an optimum pairing.


----------



## JazzVinyl

robo24 said:


> Yikes, I guess I should be thrilled I got this tube for $40.


Yes, 6v versions are quite expensive.   I run a TS 12SL7 BGRP in an amp designed for 6v by externally heating the tube.
Another advantage of the 12v versions...they can be much more easily found true NOS condition.


----------



## whirlwind

robo24 said:


> Really loving my GOTL today! Just got a new LCD-3 (which are higher impedence than many planars) and ended up rolling Cetron 6336Bs, GEC U18/20, and Tung Sol BGRP 12SN7GT and I'm preferring it over my other amps, even the solid states. With this particular roll and that planar bass it's really just an amazing creamy-mids and rich, detailed bass experience. Glad I didn't just dismiss spending much time with the Glenn since OTLs aren't supposed to be great with planars. Also gives me hope that the ZMF Caldera will match well with the Glenn with the right roll. Got this decade old headphone to scratch that planar itch until I eventually own the Caldera.



Nice, the LCD-3 is a great headphone

The 200 ohm LCD-4 is also a pleasure to listen to and works well with a lot of different amps.


----------



## leftside

Monsterzero said:


> I don't recall what the GOTL can get down to w/ the 6336 tubes in place, but the Airmid gets down to 30 ohms with 5998 or 421a, and while the Caldera doesnt sound _bad_ on the Airmid, it's clearly not an optimum pairing.


The V6 Thunder I had Mischa build me gets down to 15 ohms, but it does require a ridiculous 6 5998's to get that low. Still, it might be the only OTL amp out there that drives the Abyss well! 

And as we're on the Glenn thread, the Glenn 300B is an absolute dream with the Abyss


----------



## gibosi

leftside said:


> The V6 Thunder I had Mischa build me gets down to 15 ohms, but it does require a ridiculous 6 5998's to get that low. Still, it might be the only OTL amp out there that drives the Abyss well!
> 
> And as we're on the Glenn thread, the Glenn 300B is an absolute dream with the Abyss



By my calculation, a pair of 6528 in the Glenn gets down to about 12.25 ohms. However, I don't have any inefficient / low impedance cans...


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> And as we're on the Glenn thread, the Glenn 300B is an absolute dream with the Abyss



Long time no see. I did think of the Glenn 300b back then but now I'm waiting on Telemachus.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Long time no see. I did think of the Glenn 300b back then but now I'm waiting on Telemachus.


Great to see other custom builders designing and developing new products. I love seeing what they come up with and am looking forward to your new Telemachus. I presume it's a 300B amp? I bet it's going to look and sound amazing.

My days of buying new audio gear are over though - unless something breaks and can't be repaired. The only pieces of audio gear I've purchased the last year have been wireless headphones and wireless IEMs. Haven't even purchased any new tubes since the beginning of the year. I actually ran out of room in the house to store the tubes, and once I built some cupboards in the garage for about half of them over the summer, I said to myself "enough".

I did send my LCD4 to Mitch who lives close to me. He developed some filters that you can plug into Roon and I feel these filters make the LCD4 even better. He already had filters for the Abyss which I purchased. Worth considering for the price of a decent tube 
https://accuratesound.ca/
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...b1266-φ-tc-headphones-to-another-level-r1091/


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> My days of buying new audio gear are over though



I'm with you on that. Interest is tapering off.  Much as no one wants to believe it, Telemachus will be my last headphone amp and yes it's a 300b amp. It's not due till April 2023.

I'm also starting to listen to music in the lounge with the stereo system. Full size speakers sound is different and satisfying.


----------



## Zachik

UntilThen said:


> Interest is tapering off.  Much as no one wants to believe it, Telemachus will be my last headphone amp


@bcowen took note of that, and will forever haunt you if when you order the next amp (after Telemachus)!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> By my calculation, a pair of 6528 in the Glenn gets down to about 12.25 ohms. However, I don't have any inefficient / low impedance cans...



How did you calculate this Ken?  I can tell you how to measure it if you are interested in giving it a try.

I'm curious to see how my OTL drives the Caldera when my pair arrives, it also has a 15ohm output impedance.  Never tried a planar with it.


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> How did you calculate this Ken?  I can tell you how to measure it if you are interested in giving it a try.
> 
> I'm curious to see how my OTL drives the Caldera when my pair arrives, it also has a 15ohm output impedance.  Never tried a planar with it.



Ro = rp / AF+1

For a 6528

Ro is output resistance
rp = Plate resistance = 245 (from datasheet)
AF+1 = Amplification Factor +1 = 10 (from datasheet)

So Ro =  245 / 10 =  24.5 for one section. 

And if the two sections are in series, as in the Glenn: 

Ro is divided by 2.  And thus, 24.5 / 2 = 12.25.

I can't remember where I found this, but it seems to get me pretty close.


----------



## LobalWarming

gibosi said:


> Ro = rp / AF+1
> 
> For a 6528
> 
> ...


Was it here: https://www.tubecad.com/2005/June/blog0048.htm

_"As for output impedance, there isn't much debate. The cathode follower's output impedance equals:
             Zo = rp / (mu + 1)
"_


----------



## gibosi

LobalWarming said:


> Was it here: https://www.tubecad.com/2005/June/blog0048.htm
> 
> _"As for output impedance, there isn't much debate. The cathode follower's output impedance equals:
> Zo = rp / (mu + 1)
> "_



That article doesn't look familiar, but the calculation sure does.


----------



## LobalWarming

gibosi said:


> That article doesn't look familiar, but the calculation sure does.


Great! In life, tube rolling and stats, 1 out of 2 ain't bad.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

gibosi said:


> Ro = rp / AF+1
> 
> For a 6528
> 
> ...



Ahh okay, I'm sorry to say it is more complicated than it seems since this is an SRPP stage, the formula from the Tube CAD article is for a cathode follower (actually the cathode follower output impedance can be fairly accurately estimated by 1/gm).  You will find different formulas around the web for the output impedance of SRPP, for identical triodes and the lower cathode resistor bypassed (like in GOTL), I came across this formula by a knowledgeable chap on diyAudio.

Zout = (Ra^2)/(2Ra+(mu+1)Rk)

Where Ra is the plate resistance and Rk is the upper triode cathode resistor, 250ohm in GOTL.  For a 245ohm plate resistance, that would give an output impedance of around 20ohm but hard to say how accurate that is as the plate resistance is also dependent on the bias point and the GOTL will not bias a 6528 as they are referencing in the datasheet.

I measured the plate resistance of a 6528 on my tracer for around a 100V / 100mA bias point (ballpark of where it would be in the GOTL), got a plate resistance of 330ohm, which by the formula above would make for an output impedance of 34ohm, so that might be a little closer to the mark.

I actually have a LTSpice simulation of the GOTL circuit, calculations in LTSpice tend to be pretty accurate.  Unfortunately I don't have a 6528 model so I can't say what the output impedance would be using it.  I do have a 6336 model though, output impedance is around 65ohm in my simulation.

The absolute best way to find the output impedance though is to measure it!  It is very easy to do, you just need an old headphone cable you don't mind cutting to access the wires, two different resistor values, two alligator clips, and a digital multimeter.  If you or anyone else is interested in how that is done, I can describe the process.


----------



## LobalWarming

I'm interested. 

Of course, the HF debate will be about whether it's best cutting up a custom silver cable or just an over-priced, but nicely braided, OFC cable.


----------



## Monsterzero

L0rdGwyn said:


> Ahh okay, I'm sorry to say it is more complicated than it seems since this is an SRPP stage, the formula from the Tube CAD article is for a cathode follower (actually the cathode follower output impedance can be fairly accurately estimated by 1/gm).  You will find different formulas around the web for the output impedance of SRPP, for identical triodes and the lower cathode resistor bypassed (like in GOTL), I came across this formula by a knowledgeable chap on diyAudio.
> 
> Zout = (Ra^2)/(2Ra+(mu+1)Rk)
> 
> ...


Just for the record, I knew all of that already.


----------



## heliosphann

Numbers hurt my head.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 13, 2022)

Okay here is the gist of it.

1) Turn on the amplifier, listen with headphones, find a 1kHz test tone track on YouTube or a streaming service and turn up the volume to something resembling your normal listening volume, perhaps a bit louder.  Once you've set the volume, don't change it for the rest of the measurement.  Don't change test tone tracks or alter the volume in any other way!

2) Cut an old headphone cable (I am assuming a 1/4" TRS single-ended for this since we are talking GOTL), strip away part of the jacket so you can access the three wires.  Separate the wires until you've identified the ground wire, left channel wire, and right channel wire.  You can check which is which by using the continuity setting on the DMM.

3) You need two resistor values, let's say in the headphone impedance range, we'll use 300ohm and 32ohm for this example.  You don't have to use these specific values, you just want to use resistors that are somewhat far apart in value so you can measure differences in voltage within the accuracy of your DMM.

4) Plug the stripped headphone cable into the warmed up amplifier.  Take the 300ohm resistor (or whichever is the larger value of the two) and using two alligator clips, clip one end to the channel you are testing on the stripped headphone cable (left or right, doesn't matter) and attach the other end to the ground wire.

5) Set the DMM to AC voltage and attach the leads across the resistor - you are going to measure the AC voltage generated across the resistor as the amplifier amplifies the 1kHz test tone.

6) Press play on the 1kHz test tone and record the AC voltage generated.  Remember, once you've measured the first voltage, don't touch the volume knob!

7) Now replace the 300ohm resistor with the 32ohm resistor, same channel and again attach the DMM across the resistor leads.

8) Press play again on the same 1kHz test tone and record the AC voltage generated.

9)  Now you have four values: R1 (value of first resistor), R2 (value of second resistor), V1 (AC voltage measured across the first resistor), V2 (AC voltage measured across the second resistor).

Plug them into this formula, and you have the output impedance.

Zout = ((R1*R2(V1-V2))/((R1*V2)-(R2*V1))

Yay math!!!

So, just to illustrate that this does in fact work, I performed this exact process on my 6528 OTL just now.  I have done this in the past, but using an oscilloscope instead of a DMM.

Here are my values:

R1 = 300ohm
R2 = 32ohm
V1 = 0.321V
V2 = 0.240V

Plugging into the formula...

Zout = ((300*32(0.321-0.239))/((300*0.239-32*0.321))
Zout = 12.8ohms

Using a different set of 6528 tubes in the past and using an oscilloscope, I got around 15ohms, so it's a little off but pretty close.  Very well could be the output impedance has changed slightly using a different set of tubes.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Here is my headphone dummy load box, TRS jack is on the back, knob on the front changes the load from 32ohm / 80ohm / 120ohm / 300ohm.  BNC jacks on the front so I can connect it directly to my scope.  I was a psycho for making this thing, I would never do this nowadays lol but I'm glad I did, I use it all the time.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

heliosphann said:


> Numbers hurt my head.



But ya gotta use those numbers to make the good amplifier sounds.


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> @bcowen took note of that, and will forever haunt you if when you order the next amp (after Telemachus)!


He's said that so many times I think he's just trying to get himself to believe it. But I'll probably haunt him anyway just 'cause it'll be fun.   🤣


----------



## gibosi

L0rdGwyn said:


> Plugging into the formula...
> 
> Zout = ((300*32(0.321-0.239))/((300*0.239-32*0.321))
> Zout = 12.8ohms
> ...



The formula I found actually works pretty good for your amp, 12.25ohms. Will have to scrounge a couple resisters and an old headphone cable to see what the value is for Glenn's SRPP. When I finally get around to it, I will post my results. But I'm slow so don't hold your breath. lol


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 13, 2022)

gibosi said:


> The formula I found actually works pretty good for your amp, 12.25ohms. Will have to scrounge a couple resisters and an old headphone cable to see what the value is for Glenn's SRPP. When I finally get around to it, I will post my results. But I'm slow so don't hold your breath. lol



Yes it does, that's because my amplifier is a parallel cathode follower output, so use the formula to calculate the output impedance of one section, then divide by two as the sections are in parallel.

As I mentioned, the output impedance of a cathode follower can also be estimated by 1/gm.  So for 6528, 1/37,000umhos = 1/0.037mhos = 27ohms.  Now divide by two with the sections paralleled, you get 13.5ohms, again pretty close to the real world measurement.

But this is only for a cathode follower, the calculation is more complex for SRPP.  I think it is best measured for accuracy.


----------



## Smallpie

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is my headphone dummy load box, TRS jack is on the back, knob on the front changes the load from 32ohm / 80ohm / 120ohm / 300ohm.  BNC jacks on the front so I can connect it directly to my scope.  I was a psycho for making this thing, I would never do this nowadays lol but I'm glad I did, I use it all the time.


Could you make a box like this where you can have multiple impedances taps if your amp only puts out a really low impedance? 
Ie. Amp puts out 16 ohms but you want to have 100 ohm for your Zmf’s.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Smallpie said:


> Could you make a box like this where you can have multiple impedances taps if your amp only puts out a really low impedance?
> Ie. Amp puts out 16 ohms but you want to have 100 ohm for your Zmf’s.



Basically what you'd be doing is putting a series resistor between the output and the headphone, so you could increase the output impedance but would lose some power.  Whether or not it would improve the sound with high Z headphones is a question mark.

Say it is a solid state amp with an output impedance ~1ohm, if you add a 10ohm resistor, then the output impedance would be 11ohm.  If you add a 100ohm resistor, the output impedance would be 101ohm.  Definitely something to experiment with before you go to the trouble to build a box for it.


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> He's said that so many times I think he's just trying to get himself to believe it. But I'll probably haunt him anyway just 'cause it'll be fun.   🤣



There's an end to everything.

This is my beginning.



This will be my end.


----------



## bcowen

UntilThen said:


> There's an end to everything.
> 
> This is my beginning.
> 
> ...


Hey, I have one of those.  The first picture, that is.  Maybe one day on the second.   🤣


----------



## paradoxper

UntilThen said:


> There's an end to everything.
> 
> This is my beginning.
> 
> ...


No no. You still need a tube DAC.   

That is a nice end.


----------



## bcowen

paradoxper said:


> No no. You still need a tube DAC.
> 
> That is a nice end.


And a tube phono stage.  

Vinyl is not complete without one.   🤣


----------



## paradoxper

bcowen said:


> And a tube phono stage.
> 
> Vinyl is not complete without one.   🤣


IT neverrr ends.


----------



## UntilThen

paradoxper said:


> No no. You still need a tube DAC.
> 
> That is a nice end.



So why not Lampizator. Why did you go with XT DHT instead?


----------



## paradoxper

UntilThen said:


> So why not Lampizator. Why did you go with XT DHT instead?


I am considering their Pacific DAC. Notably the balanced package and Vicor power. Their quad configuration almost turned me away,
but what's better than quad Elrogs. 

I am resisting a new beginning the best I can.


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> And a tube phono stage.
> 
> Vinyl is not complete without one.   🤣



Because I cannot afford a Supratek Cortese LCR that @leftside has. 🤪


----------



## UntilThen

paradoxper said:


> I am considering their Pacific DAC. Notably the balanced package and Vicor power. Their quad configuration almost turned me away,
> but what's better than quad Elrogs.
> 
> I am resisting a new beginning the best I can.



The Pacific balanced dac is audio high end jewellery. A quad of 300b tubes is a sight to behold.


----------



## bcowen

UntilThen said:


> Because I cannot afford a Supratek Cortese LCR that @leftside has. 🤪


Yes you can.

I already have an Alana, so I'm good.


----------



## Monsterzero

paradoxper said:


> I am considering their Pacific DAC. Notably the balanced package and Vicor power. Their quad configuration almost turned me away,
> but what's better than quad Elrogs.
> 
> I am resisting a new beginning the best I can.


 Howza about the Horizon?


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Howza about the Horizon?



Horizon’s for the sheikh.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Horizon’s for the sheikh.


Pacific is no small pocket change either.


----------



## paradoxper

Monsterzero said:


> Howza about the Horizon?


Horizon wasn't on my radar as I assumed it was not 300B, conflating it with TRP. However, a buddy has one on order so we may end up doing swaps considering many crossovers -- he's into Elrog and also has access to TM300B, the big snag is he's less into headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Pacific is no small pocket change either.



I’m glad Yggdrasil is good enough and cheap enough for me. 😀


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Tube DACs and tube phono stages FTW   

I thought about a DHT circuit for my PCM63 DAC, but when it comes down to it DHT filament supplies are bulky and with high radiated magnetic fields, not so great for small signal applications like a DAC where low noise is paramount.  Hopefully Lampizator has taken care to keep 60Hz noise decoupled from the audio output.  That quad 300B DAC must be freaking huge.


----------



## dminches

The Horizon is a huge step up from the Pacific which is great as well. I traded by Pacific for an Horizon and am very pleased.


----------



## bigjako

Happy new owner of a second-hand Glenn using 2 x 6AS7s (or 5998/6336 via toggle) one 5U4G and one 6SN7.  I have only had the chance to listen for a few minutes so far to make sure it's operable and the tubes didn't blow any cans, but the bass is beyond my expectations while still being crystal clear.  I'm looking forward to tube-rolling this before I say much more about the sound.

This has a total of 4 tubes, which is much less than some of the models I've seen in this thread.  I'm curious if anyone else with this version can tell me much about their experience or suggest some tube combos.


----------



## Monsterzero

bigjako said:


> Happy new owner of a second-hand Glenn using 2 x 6AS7s (or 5998/6336 via toggle) one 5U4G and one 6SN7.  I have only had the chance to listen for a few minutes so far to make sure it's operable and the tubes didn't blow any cans, but the bass is beyond my expectations while still being crystal clear.  I'm looking forward to tube-rolling this before I say much more about the sound.
> 
> This has a total of 4 tubes, which is much less than some of the models I've seen in this thread.  I'm curious if anyone else with this version can tell me much about their experience or suggest some tube combos.


 Congrats! Does yours have the 6/12/25v switch on the rear?

The only tube advice I can offer is to invest in a 6J5 adapter and ditch the 6sn7 tubes (except for the TS BGRP)


----------



## bigjako

Monsterzero said:


> Congrats! Does yours have the 6/12/25v switch on the rear?
> 
> The only tube advice I can offer is to invest in a 6J5 adapter and ditch the 6sn7 tubes (except for the TS BGRP)


Thank you! Appreciate that.  The only switch I have on the rear is labeled 6AS7 / 5998 & 6337, so I assume I'm fixed on the 6v setting. 

Why do you suggest ditching the 6SN7s?  I have a lot of new and NOS 6SN7s so I was looking forward to swapping them in and seeing the impact (currently, I have a new Linlai 6SN7 in it but looking forward to trying some NOS Sylvanias and Shuguang Treasures I already have.  I have no gain issue, it's plenty loud.


----------



## Monsterzero

bigjako said:


> Thank you! Appreciate that.  The only switch I have on the rear is labeled 6AS7 / 5998 & 6337, so I assume I'm fixed on the 6v setting.
> 
> Why do you suggest ditching the 6SN7s?  I have a lot of new and NOS 6SN7s so I was looking forward to swapping them in and seeing the impact (currently, I have a new Linlai 6SN7 in it but looking forward to trying some NOS Sylvanias and Shuguang Treasures I already have.  I have no gain issue, it's plenty loud.


Yeah, so your amp has the 5998 switch, which mine did not have. Those that had it couldn't hear any difference, but in theory that switch should be active when using 5998s.

Regarding 6J5 vs. 6SN7....

A 6J5 is one half of a 6SN7, so you need two. The benefit of using 6J5 over 6SN7 used to be two fold,
Price. 6J5s used to be cheaper than 6SN7s, but that has changed since all of the GOTL owners started raving about them, and now prices of a pair of 6J5s is not much cheaper than their 6SN7 equivelant, but with a little pattience you can still find good deals.

What hasn't changed however is that a pair of 6J5s simply sound better than 6SN7s, and that opinion is shared almost universally. Much better imaging and seperation and better staging.
You might want to read thru this thread and familiarize yourself with the 6J5. 
The Tung Sol BG RP ( best 6SN7 in the GOTL IMO) doesnt have a 6J5 equivelant unfortunately, but most of the rest do.


----------



## robo24

bigjako said:


> Thank you! Appreciate that.  The only switch I have on the rear is labeled 6AS7 / 5998 & 6337, so I assume I'm fixed on the 6v setting.
> 
> Why do you suggest ditching the 6SN7s?  I have a lot of new and NOS 6SN7s so I was looking forward to swapping them in and seeing the impact (currently, I have a new Linlai 6SN7 in it but looking forward to trying some NOS Sylvanias and Shuguang Treasures I already have.  I have no gain issue, it's plenty loud.


While I agree with @Monsterzero that an adapter is the way to go, when I do use my 6SN7 socket, my favorites have been Mullard ECC33 and RCA 5692 red base.


----------



## heliosphann

Someone hook a brother up with some 6J5 pairs. Got an adapter with no tubez!


----------



## bigjako

Thank you, now I have a fresh rabbit hole to dive into.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> Someone hook a brother up with some 6J5 pairs. Got an adapter with no tubez!


Billington has GEC L63s and National Unions can be found on eBay. Those and Fivre 6j5 are my personal favs.
I have a pair of Zenith 6c5 that are good as well.


----------



## gibosi

bigjako said:


> Thank you, now I have a fresh rabbit hole to dive into.



And what kind of rectifiers did you get with the Glenn? A 5U4G is borderline with two 6AS7G. The amp wants 250mA while the 5U4G can provide at most 225mA. Using them will probably be OK for awhile, but don't be surprised if one fails. The 5U4GB is OK, but they don't seem to get much love.

Check Dubstep Girls's thread to get more ideas:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/


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## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Billington has GEC L63s and National Unions can be found on eBay. Those and Fivre 6j5 are my personal favs.
> I have a pair of Zenith 6c5 that are good as well.


I need some cheap ones. @zach915m keeps taking all my money.


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## bigjako (Nov 2, 2022)

gibosi said:


> And what kind of rectifiers did you get with the Glenn? A 5U4G is borderline with two 6AS7G. The amp wants 250mA while the 5U4G can provide at most 225mA. Using them will probably be OK for awhile, but don't be surprised if one fails. The 5U4GB is OK, but they don't seem to get much love.


I have a few 5U4Gs (two vintage Tung-Sols, a Ken-Rad, an RCA and a Winged C that I plan to also roll into a Stratus I just picked up) and the Glenn itself came with a 3DG4, which I'm not familiar with.  Would the 3DG4 be better? I see from DubStepGirl's thread that the 3DG4s are specially suited for the Glenn so I will swap that out (it says "The rectifier used by 2359Glenn in his OTL amp. This tube has different specifications from the other rectifiers and probably won't work in most 5U4G applications (3 Volts as well as a different pin layout, as of now, only compatible with 2359Glenn amps and other DIY amps)"

I swapped an old Sylvania 6SN7 in tonight and seem to hear / feel some kind of flutter or static so I'm currently listening on cheapo cans to avoid blowing out a ZMF.

Edit: swapped the Sylvania 6SN7 for a new-ish Shuguang Treasure and put in an ITT 3DG4, no flutter or static.  Slightly harsher I think.


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## whirlwind

bigjako said:


> Happy new owner of a second-hand Glenn using 2 x 6AS7s (or 5998/6336 via toggle) one 5U4G and one 6SN7.  I have only had the chance to listen for a few minutes so far to make sure it's operable and the tubes didn't blow any cans, but the bass is beyond my expectations while still being crystal clear.  I'm looking forward to tube-rolling this before I say much more about the sound.
> 
> This has a total of 4 tubes, which is much less than some of the models I've seen in this thread.  I'm curious if anyone else with this version can tell me much about their experience or suggest some tube combos.



Congrats on the amp.

If you already have many 6SN7 tubes then yeah, get to rolling them and enjoy.

As has been mentioned you can get an adapter for the 6J5 tubes also and those tubes are easier to find NOS, but make no mistake there are some wonderful sounding 6SN7 tubes if you can find a good deal.


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## whirlwind

heliosphann said:


> I need some cheap ones. @zach915m keeps taking all my money.



Ha!


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## UntilThen

bigjako said:


> Happy new owner of a second-hand Glenn using 2 x 6AS7s (or 5998/6336 via toggle) one 5U4G and one 6SN7. I have only had the chance to listen for a few minutes so far to make sure it's operable and the tubes didn't blow any cans, but the bass is beyond my expectations while still being crystal clear. I'm looking forward to tube-rolling this before I say much more about the sound.
> 
> This has a total of 4 tubes, which is much less than some of the models I've seen in this thread. I'm curious if anyone else with this version can tell me much about their experience or suggest some tube combos.



@Velozity has a wooden chassis version but he sold it after getting Telemachus.   That's probably the nicest looking Glenn OTL amp. Same compliment of tubes as yours.


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## gibosi

bigjako said:


> I have a few 5U4Gs (two vintage Tung-Sols, a Ken-Rad, an RCA and a Winged C that I plan to also roll into a Stratus I just picked up) and the Glenn itself came with a 3DG4, which I'm not familiar with.  Would the 3DG4 be better? I see from DubStepGirl's thread that the 3DG4s are specially suited for the Glenn so I will swap that out (it says "The rectifier used by 2359Glenn in his OTL amp. This tube has different specifications from the other rectifiers and probably won't work in most 5U4G applications (3 Volts as well as a different pin layout, as of now, only compatible with 2359Glenn amps and other DIY amps)"
> 
> I swapped an old Sylvania 6SN7 in tonight and seem to hear / feel some kind of flutter or static so I'm currently listening on cheapo cans to avoid blowing out a ZMF.
> 
> Edit: swapped the Sylvania 6SN7 for a new-ish Shuguang Treasure and put in an ITT 3DG4, no flutter or static.  Slightly harsher I think.



Glenn designed his OTL around the 3DG4, so yes, in terms of safety, the 3DG4 is better than any American-made 5U4G, but in terms of sonics, well, trust your ears. 

The Winged C is fine in the Glenn.

You might want to try 5R4GY, 5AR4, 5CU4 and 5AW4. Also, you can often find a Mullard GZ32 for a good price.


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## bigjako

gibosi said:


> Glenn designed his OTL around the 3DG4, so yes, in terms of safety, the 3DG4 is better than any American-made 5U4G, but in terms of sonics, well, trust your ears.
> 
> The Winged C is fine in the Glenn.
> 
> You might want to try 5R4GY, 5AR4, 5CU4 and 5AW4. Also, you can often find a Mullard GZ32 for a good price.



Today, I've rolled in the Winged C 6AS7s and the Treasure 6SN7 alongside the ITT 3DG4.  The Winged C's have much less hum than the RCA's they replaced.  I've ordered a few new tubes and adapters based on the great tips above, so thanks all.  Tonight I'm doing a little A/Bing with my Kenzie.


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## bigjako (Nov 9, 2022)

I've been tube rolling and am still trying to lock in my preferred combo while I wait for the 6J5 adapter to arrive, but I have settled in on:

Tung-Sol 3DG4 / 2x RCA 6080 / RCA 6SN7GT  Psvane CV-181 T-II

I still have a way's to go, but that's my Champion combo at the moment.  I have one question that I'm hoping someone can help me with.  On the backside of the amp, there's a toggle to switch between 1) 5998/6336 and 2) 6AS7. So my question is, where does the 6080 fall?  Is it more like a 6AS7 or more like a 5998/6336?  I've seen multiple people say all of them are identical, but others saying they're not.  I've printed out data sheets but I'm only kind of ashamed to admit, they confuse me and I don't want to brick anything. 

So - would you say the 6080 is electrically more like the 6AS7 or more like the 5998/6336?


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## triod750

I am an audiophool and I say that 6AS7 and 6080 are equivalents in your application. But don't listen to me, wait for input from qualified people.


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## gibosi

triod750 said:


> I am an audiophool and I say that 6AS7 and 6080 are equivalents in your application. But don't listen to me, wait for input from qualified people.



This is correct. The 6080 is simply a ruggedized 6AS7 for industrial and military use. The 5998 is a very different animal, but it works fine in a 6AS7 socket.


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## Xcalibur255

Some extra info about the switch:  if the biasing for the amp is the same way Glenn did it for other amps in that build period then it's *technically* safe to run the switch in either position with 6AS7/6080 tubes, but in the 5998 setting you will be running the tube hard......... at literally 100% of the maximum heat dissipation rating.  This kind of stress also tends to reveal odd behaviors and noises out of tubes as well.  I mention it mostly so you don't panic if you accidentally have the switch in the wrong position by accident, it won't be the end of the world, it's just not very desirable.

The idea behind the switch in general is to keep the 5998 tube from biasing "cold" in the amp and make it sound a little better.  Whether it works has been debated by people here for years.  My ears say yes, others say no.  If you get a pair of 5998 you can play around with it and see what your ears tell you.

Finally, it's also possible to operate the switch with the amp on, but you'll get a fairly loud transient (i.e. a loud pop) that's not very pleasant if you're wearing the headphones.  It shouldn't be enough to hurt any headphones, but again, it's not very desirable.


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## triod750

gibosi said:


> This is correct. The 6080 is simply a ruggedized 6AS7 for industrial and military use. The 5998 is a very different animal, but it works fine in a 6AS7 socket.


@bigjako; this is what you should listen to. Don't believe anything you read without verifying it from other sources. I knew I was right but you couldn't know it.


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## bigjako

Awesome, thank you all, it's really helpful.  Tempted to flip the switch 'live' but I think I'll avoid doing that  

I had been running it in the 6AS7 all along.  I have a some NOS 6080s and 6AS7s en route, and I've been curious to try a 5998 but they're quite expensive so I'll hold off for a while.  Very happy with the Tung Sol 3DG4 but I have some nice 5U4Gs for my incoming Stratus and I think I'll try those out (I know there's some risk to the tube, so I may just stick with the 3DG4).


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## robo24

Spent much of the day with the Caldera on the Glenn and finally found a way to enjoy it nearly as much as on the Pendant with it's 8 ohm socket. 6 6BX7s were key, with a Tungsram PV200/600 rectifier and my new PSVANE 6SN7. Using Cetron 6336Bs wasn't good and 4 6080 GEC & Brimar tubes was better, this is the best yet. The lesser setups were muffling the sound of the Caldera, making it not sound right and losing all air. The Glenn has always been my preferred way to listen on the LCD-3 and Arya, despite OTLs not being ideal with planars.


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## whirlwind

Have not had these tubes in the amp for some time, such a great sound that puts you in your happy place.


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## leftside

whirlwind said:


> Have not had these tubes in the amp for some time, such a great sound that puts you in your happy place.


Yeah man - those are beauties!


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## Redmetal1897

This is a dumb question so please bear with me here. I have the HEXFRED adapter with my OTL. Am I supposed to put that in the driver tube slot? Also am I supposed to take all the other tubes out when I put the hexfred adapter in?

Thanks!


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## whirlwind (Dec 28, 2022)

Redmetal1897 said:


> This is a dumb question so please bear with me here. I have the HEXFRED adapter with my OTL. Am I supposed to put that in the driver tube slot? Also am I supposed to take all the other tubes out when I put the hexfred adapter in?
> 
> Thanks!



No, don't put it in the driver tube socket.

Put it in the rectifier socket...the blue arrow you have drawn is correct and no need to take the other tubes out.
Just make sure the amp is powered down.


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## whirlwind

Redmetal1897 said:


> This is a dumb question so please bear with me here. I have the HEXFRED adapter with my OTL. Am I supposed to put that in the driver tube slot? Also am I supposed to take all the other tubes out when I put the hexfred adapter in?
> 
> Thanks!


Does your amp have the 6/12/25 volt switch on the back ?


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## Redmetal1897

whirlwind said:


> No, don't put it in the driver tube socket.
> 
> Put it in the rectifier socket...the blue arrow you have drawn is correct and no need to take the other tubes out.
> Just make sure the amp is powered down.



In my head I was saying rectifier tube but I wrote driver lol. Thank you!


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## Redmetal1897

whirlwind said:


> Does your amp have the 6/12/25 volt switch on the back ?


 It does yes. Do I need to switch it? For the 3DG4 in there right now its set to 25


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## whirlwind

Redmetal1897 said:


> It does yes. Do I need to switch it? For the 3DG4 in there right now its set to 25



No sir, you do not.

That switch is for the socket where the brown base tube is in your amp.
A great option on your amp as you can use 6/12/25 volt driver tubes


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## Monsterzero (Dec 28, 2022)

Redmetal1897 said:


> It does yes. Do I need to switch it? For the 3DG4 in there right now its set to 25


The voltage switch only applies to the driver socket, so if you're using a 6sn7 or 6J5 w/ adapter you will want the voltage switch set to 6v.
If you're using 12sn7 or 12j5 w/ adapter the switch is set to 12v.
AFAIK there is only one tube out there that can be used for the 25v setting, but don't quote me on that.

The voltage switch has no impact on the rectifier socket(far left) or power sockets(rear 6) or the C3g sockets


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## Redmetal1897

Monsterzero said:


> The voltage switch only applies to the driver socket, so if you're using a 6sn7 or 6J5 w/ adapter you will want the voltage switch set to 6v.
> If you're using 12sn7 or 12j5 w/ adapter the switch is set to 12v.
> AFAIK there is only one tube out there that can be used for the 25v setting, but don't quote me on that.
> 
> The voltage switch has no impact on the rectifier socket(far left) or power sockets(rear 6) or the C3g sockets



Cheers bud. I need to start file with all this collective knowledge lol I forget it on the fly.


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## Redmetal1897

Monsterzero said:


> AFAIK there is only one tube out there that can be used for the 25v setting, but don't quote me on that.



is it the 13D1? Thats what Glenn sent me originally for the driver and he had the amp set to 25v


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## Monsterzero

That's the one. I didnt use mine much as I preferred the sound of the Tung Sol BGRP, which comes in both 6v and 12v versions or any of the various 6v and 12v J5 tubes.
The real advantage of the voltage switch is being able to buy and use 12v driver tubes, as opposed to being locked into the 6v versions. Typically the 12v version of a sn7 sound identical to the 6v version, but can be purchased for much less money than the 6v counterpart.


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## whirlwind

Redmetal1897 said:


> is it the 13D1? Thats what Glenn sent me originally for the driver and he had the amp set to 25v


Yes, that is a 25 volt driver, and a very nice sounding one.


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## Zachik

Redmetal1897 said:


> I need to start file with all this collective knowledge lol I forget it on the fly.


Check out the link in my signature. No reason to re-invent the wheel...


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## Redmetal1897

Zachik said:


> Check out the link in my signature. No reason to re-invent the wheel...


That is... amazing!!


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## whirlwind

Monsterzero said:


> That's the one. I didnt use mine much as I preferred the sound of the Tung Sol BGRP, which comes in both 6v and 12v versions or any of the various 6v and 12v J5 tubes.
> The real advantage of the voltage switch is being able to buy and use 12v driver tubes, as opposed to being locked into the 6v versions. Typically the 12v version of a sn7 sound identical to the 6v version, but can be purchased for much less money than the 6v counterpart.



Yeah, not many deals on 25 volt driver tubes these days.

You can probably buy an RCA Grey Glass just as cheap in the 6 volt as in 25 volt.


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## whirlwind

Zachik said:


> Check out the link in my signature. No reason to re-invent the wheel...


@Redmetal1897 

Do this, it will come in very handy for you.


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## mordy

Zachik said:


> Check out the link in my signature. No reason to re-invent the wheel...


Great spreadsheet!
Since I am using a 5A tube now that is not listed there, you may want to add 6528 after the 6336B (on the same line with the same caution).


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## gibosi

Redmetal1897 said:


> is it the 13D1? Thats what Glenn sent me originally for the driver and he had the amp set to 25v



And the 25-volt version of the grey RCA and black Ken-Rad (25SN7GT) is labeled 1633.


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## robo24

Monsterzero said:


> The voltage switch only applies to the driver socket, so if you're using a 6sn7 or 6J5 w/ adapter you will want the voltage switch set to 6v.
> If you're using 12sn7 or 12j5 w/ adapter the switch is set to 12v.
> AFAIK there is only one tube out there that can be used for the 25v setting, but don't quote me on that.
> 
> The voltage switch has no impact on the rectifier socket(far left) or power sockets(rear 6) or the C3g sockets


There are at least 2, which I only know because you included 2 in the one you sold me! Both are amongst my favorites. https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cv423.html
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_1633.html


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## Monsterzero

KERNEL59 said:


> Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Studio 3rd Gen





robo24 said:


> There are at least 2, which I only know because you included 2 in the one you sold me! Both are amongst my favorites. https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cv423.html
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_1633.html


yeah, i'm old


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## whirlwind

*Happy New Year to all.*
This is a good way to start the new year.






This young lady keeps getting better and better.


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## bcowen

whirlwind said:


> *Happy New Year to all.*
> This is a good way to start the new year.
> 
> 
> ...


Love those ZMF's.  Totally gorgeous!


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## mordy (Jan 3, 2023)

Having the GEC A1834 and the GEC 6080, I am wondering if it is worthwhile to get the GEC A2293 triodes that must be used in pairs.
Has anybody been able to compare the A2293 to the other two GEC tubes?


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## whirlwind

mordy said:


> Having the GEC A1834 and the GEC 6080, I am wondering if it is worthwhile to get the GEC A2293 triodes that must be used in pairs.
> Has anybody been able to compare the A2293 to the other two GEC tubes?


@gibosi, maybe ?


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## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> @gibosi, maybe ?



I have never heard the A2293 triode. I would guess it is probably similar to the GEC tubes mentioned above, but not identical. And the only way to know for sure is to try them.


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## triod750

And then we have this http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0224.htm...
Who has tried it? Any good?





The sticker is nice...


----------



## mordy

triod750 said:


> And then we have this http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0224.htm...
> Who has tried it? Any good?
> 
> 
> ...


It never ends - there are only around 13,000 different types of tubes:




GEC CV4038


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## triod750 (Jan 4, 2023)

mordy said:


> It never ends - there are only around 13,000 different types of tubes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It would be easy for you to make room for that tube type.  How many can you fit into one of your shoe boxes?

One question though; you know that tubes with flying leads are more difficult to catch, don't you?


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## mordy (Jan 4, 2023)

triod750 said:


> It would be easy for you to make room for that tube type.  How many can you fit into one of your shoe boxes?


Baby shoes or men's shoes?


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## whirlwind (Jan 5, 2023)

mordy said:


> It never ends - there are only around 13,000 different types of tubes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL. Yeah, it definitely would take a lifetime.  So many tubes and so little time!

For the newer GOTL owners, below is the Ked Rad 25 volt 1633 tube that @gibosi mentioned in an above post.
If you come across any of these, turn the switch on back of amp to 25 volt.
They have the staggered plates and they are very nice sounding, they bring the bass.
I think if you get any Ken Rad staggered plate tubes 6/12/25 volt you will be happy, they do not need to be the black glass.


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## Xcalibur255

Very nice tube, but very prone to developing noise issues too.


----------

